HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vonzelow@adobe.com (Jon von Zelowitz)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Romex & Thinwall Question
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:47:49 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated


I am wiring a new outlet in my laundry room. The wire will come up from the
crawlspace, through a hole I will drill in the sole plate (that's the 2x4 at
the base of the wall), to the outlet. Since the walls are unfinished (no
sheetrock, studs showing), I know that Code says I need to protect the wire
in the laundry room with (for example) thinwall conduit.

The wiring in the crawlspace is all Romex. As far as I understand, you don't
run Romex through TWC, you run wires. So, my question is, can I strip off
the outer sheathing from the Romex from the point where it enters the TWC? I
can't find any mention of this in several wiring books. Thanks (Chris ;-) ).

   Jon von Zelowitz   vonzelow@mv.us.adobe.com   ...uunet!adobe!vonzelow
From: tjs4525@hertz.njit.edu (Theodore Stites)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: HELP! Need info on new shed
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:37:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.
Originator: tjs4525@hertz.njit.edu

Hello all,

	I am in the process of tearing down a rotted shed that came with
my house when I bought it.  I would like to get a new one, and I was looking
for some net style advice.  Has anyone had any experience with sheds pro or
con.  Do you have any recomendations as to what material it should be made of?
I was looking at getting a 10' x 10' or 8' x 8' model. Any advice here? 
I've seen galvanized steel with vinyl coating, aluminum, and vinyl. 
What would be best for the weather in New Jersey - plenty of rain and snow.
Is a foundation needed or just some type of patio block support?

				Any advice or experiences welcome.

				Thanks in advance,
					Ted Stites

					tstites@attmail.com    (Primary)
					tjs4525@hertz.njit.edu (Secondary)

               PS: Please email responses and I will post a summary...
                   
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Subject: Re: Pigeon Repellent  ???
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:20:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.152337.284@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, patter@dasher.uucp 
(24224-guthrie) writes:
>In misc.consumers.house, maw2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MICHELE A. WHITE) writes:
>
>>I am looking for a way to get rid of pigeons who have taken a liking to our
>>brick window sills.  The sills are getting pretty dirty and they aren't afraid
>>of my cats.  Any suggestions?  (One of them even has a bread wrapper twister
>>and a message attached to his leg!)
>
>Many people in NY city cut pieces of 1/2" or 3/4" wood the same size
>as the sill and drive nails through about every couple of inches. They
>then lay these out on the sill, and the birds have no place to land.
>I can't say much for the appearance of these things, though. The cure
>may be worse than the disease.                                         

Again, allow me to endorse Nixalite, a refined variation of George's
description that is nearly invisible from a distance.  The metal spikes that
discourage roosting are extremely sharp, spaced closely together (every  inch
or so), and attached to a metal strip for anchoring.  I've left Nixalite's
toll-free number at work; e-mail me if you want it.

Katie
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: roof insulation & ventilation / asbestos in basement
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:52:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: i88.1992Aug28.185231.8589
Distribution: usa
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL

In article <1992Aug28.160447.1265@beaver.cs.washington.edu> pauld@cs.washington.edu (Paul Barton-Davis) writes:
>2) Asbestos. We have some. A 1/4" strip apparently installed to
>"protect" the main 6x6 girder that holds up the center of the house
>from the "heat" of a hot air duct. I know we have to get rid of it,

How do you know you have to get rid of it?

>and I know that asbestos is Bad, but how urgent is this ? I ask with

Asbestos isn't necessarily bad.

>house right now. Also, does anyone have any comments on
>seller-liability for this ? Removing this strip is going to involve
>complete dissassembly of most of our heating system ... I suspect they
>owe us nothing, but any suggestions about ways to save some of the
>$2-3000 I suspect this will cost would be appreciated.

If the seller didn't attempt to hide it, they probably aren't liable.

Rather than spending $2-3k to remove a small bit of asbestos, don't
worry about it.  From your description, it sounds like asbestos fabric.
It's fairly stable.  Unless it's falling apart, and exposed to drafts,
it's not likely to go anywhere.  You are more likely to have an
asbestos exposure problem by attempting to remove it.  Containment is
a more reasonable approach, if it really bothers you.  (E.g., wrap it in
duct tape.)

Much of the panic over asbestos is caused by the misinformation, or at least
partial information spread by the asbestos removal industry.  As a test,
call two asbestos removal firms for estimates.  Tell the first "We have
something we think might be asbestos.  Come take a look at us, and tell us
how much you'd charge to remove it."  Tell the second "We have something
we think might be asbestos.  Come take a look, and we'll pay you to tell
us whether it's serious or not; if it is a problem, we'll hire another firm
to remove it."  I'd be willing to bet you'd get two completely different
analyses of the situation.

If you have stable asbestos in the house, removing it will increase your
exposure.  If, on the other hand, you have asbestos wool insulation that's
somehow getting into the heating ducts (likely scenario: little elves
are getting into your attic, carting the stuff off in golden buckets, and
pouring it down the nearest heat register), then you may have a serious
problem.
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,princeton.forsale,ne.housing,nj.market.housing
From: kennh@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (kenneth.s.herr)
Subject: House for Sale..
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:12:35 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Keywords: Monmouth County N.J..


House for sale by owner:

Located in the Shark River Hills section of Neptune N.J. Monmouth County
24 Vernon Avenue.
Neptune N.J. 07753


3 Year old Spacious Contempory Colonial. 100 feet from the beautiful 
Shark River. Enjoy evening breezes and colorful sunsets from your deck 
while water skiers, and sailboats pass by.

15 minutes south of AT&T Navisink Belcore.
25 minutes south of AT&T Holmdel, Red Hill and Middletown.
75 minutes south of AT&T Murry Hill.
90 minutes south of AT&T Whippiny.

3 Large bedrooms.
2 1/2 Bath w/Jaccuzzi in master bath.
Fireplace.
Front and rear decks.
Spectacular river view.
100 X 100 Lot.
2 Car garage with work shop and seperate large attic over garage.
Gas central heat and air.
2 sliding glass doors to rear deck.
3 ceiling fans.
Fully carpeted.
Plenty of closets.
Large attic.
City Water and sewer.
Cable TV.
Underground wiring.


Shark River Marina and Shark River Yacht club within walking distance.
5 Minutes to Ocean.
5 Minutes to Belmar fishing marina.
5 minutes to Parkway.
5 minutes to I-178.
10 minutes to Monmouth Mall.
10 minutes to Monmouth Park.
30 minutes to Great Adventure.
90 minutes to N.Y. city


  First floor
20 x 13 Den w/fireplace, cealing fan and oversized sliding glass doors 
        to rear deck.
18 x 13 Living room.
22 x 11 Kitchen w/cieling fan and pantry. Sky light over dining nook and
        sling glass doors leading to rear deck.
12 x 11 Dining room.
15 x 8  Laundry/mud room.
        Half bath

 Second floor
15 x 11 Bedroom with great view of river.
14 x 10 Bedroom
        Full bath
23 x 13 Hugh Master bedroom. great view of rive. arched sitting area
        -- x -- walk in closet and ceiling fan. Large Master Bath 
        w/2 person Jaccuzzi and sky light.

$199,900
Work - (908) 949-8263    7:30-4:00
Home - (908) 988-0557    after 4:30 and weekends.
24 Vernon Avenue.
Neptune N.J. 07753

 
 +---------------------------------+
 | Kenneth S. Herr (908) 949-8263  |
 | AT&T Bell Laboratories          |
 | Holmdel N.J. 07733              |
 | homxc!kennh                     |
 | Usenet: kennh@cbnewsh.att.com   |
 | att!cbnewsh!kennh               |
 +---------------------------------+
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: ADVICE NEEDED: Shake roof maintenance
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 19:38:57 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

goddard+@cs.cmu.edu (Nigel Goddard) writes:

> In article <1992Sep1.145552.22352@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> sns@bondi.jpl.nasa.gov 
> >>>> So, what specific weapons and ammo do you folks recommend for home 
> >>>> protection?  Assume it's for an adult..
> >
> >This seems quite relevant to misc.consumers.house.  Someone has asked "what'
> >the best gun I can by [there's .consumers.] to protect my house [there's
> >.house]?"  What else does it need to qualify for misc.consumers.house?
> 
> In the same vein, can someone tell me the best type and arrangement of
> crystals to get to protect my house from burglars?  There is a huge
> choice out there.  We have two kids, so I don't want anything that
> concentrates energy in the 1-3ft height range.  Preferably the
> spectrum should dissipate at no more than 12 ft. from source to avoid
> zapping passers-by on the sidewalk.  I've been considering agates
> but have heard these have an unbalanced frequency distribution.  Can
> someone comment on this?
> 
> Another difficult problem is spatial placement of the crystals.  Of
> course it depends on just which minerals and cuts are used, but the
> general outline is what I want to know about.  I've read that the
> hexagonal tri-phased vector layout is the most powerful, but my
> question is, does it work in a two storey house?

The best crystals are manmade ruby, cylindrical, with one end fully
silvered and the other half-silvered. You need a large, corkscrew-
shaped flash tube around it, along with a healthy power supply for
the tube. Simply align the half-silvered end in the direction of
the intruder, preferrably about at eye level, and trigger the flash.

The rubys' energy will prove both effective and impressive, and 
is a very coherent way of dealing with the problem.

:-)

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
From: scollins@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (Steven Collins)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Wanted: info on water purification systems
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:51:47 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Information Technologies


 Anybody have any suggestions on good water purification
systems?  We have been looking at RainSoft but also know
of other systems that use a magnetic field to precipitate
out the minerals.  Any info. would be welcomed.
Thanks, Steve
-- 
||  Steve Collins          ||  INTERNET: scollins@uswest.com      ||
||  1475 Lawrence Ave #500 ||                                     ||
||  Denver, CO 80202       ||  US WEST Multimedia AE              ||
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: jon@destin.dazixco.ingr.com (Jon Stone)
Subject: Re: which water heater?  which toilet/WC?
Reply-To: jon@ingr.com
Organization: Dazix - An Intergraph Company
X-Newsreader: GNU Emacs 18.58.1, GNUS 3.14.1, NNTP 3.10
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:57:10 GMT


>>>>> On Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:16:59 GMT, fredch@phx.mcd.mot.com (Fred Christiansen) said:

 Fred> I'm looking for an electric water heater with a 5 or 8 yr guaranty.
 Fred> Various local plumbing suppliers have recommended these:
 Fred>     A.O. Smith
 Fred>     Bradford-White
 Fred>     American
 Fred>     Reliance/State
 Fred>     Richmond/Rheem

I recently had my house, which I just purchased, inspected.  The house
has a A.O. Smith water heater.  I've never heard of the brand before,
but the two inspectors were patting me on the back and said that this
brand was "the best there was".  Not my endorsement, but they thought
it was good.

Jon



--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Stone                                                 jon@ingr.com
Dazix, an Intergraph Company; Boulder, CO               (303) 581-2319
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hale@btree.uucp (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: suggested weapons (was: Killing burglars.)
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:32:04 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation

In article <mjc.714864001@NL.CS.CMU.EDU> mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) writes:
>So, what specific weapons and ammo do you folks recommend for home 
>protection?  Assume it's for an adult with no previous firearms experience
>(bows and crossbows aside) and a willingness to learn.  (Of course, no weapon
>gets into my house under *my* power before I've been properly trained with 
>it.)  Goals are to maximize effectiveness (shooting to wound is stupid) while 
>minimizing both risk to others (pass-through on walls) and property damage.

I suggest reading "The Truth About Self Protection" by Massad Ayoob.
Ayoob covers a *lot* of territory in this book, from locks to dogs
to burglar alarms to guns.  He also details what happens after a
shooting.

The book costs about $10 (paperback) and is a good read.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: mguyott@eriador.prime.com (M. Guyott)
Subject: Re: Killing burglars.
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:44:49 GMT

In article <8822@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM> mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes:
>In <1992Aug24.145037.1946@sdc.com> kenk@sdc.com (Ken Konecki) writes:
>
>>Why are guns necessary?  A can of aerosol EZ-OFF used properly can be just
>>as effective as a gun for the purposes of defense.  One quick shot in the
>>face and it's over before it begins.
>
>This works fine if the burglar is stupid enough to let you get close enough
>to use the EZ-OFF.  What would you say the effective range would be, 12 to
>15 inches.

What about if you used something like those aerosol wasp killers that are
supposed to spray 30 feet?  But then I would think you are better off using
something like mace or tear gas.  What's the range on mace or tear gas?  Are
these disabling?  I've heard that mace and/or tear gas cause the person to
experience considerable discomfort but do not disable the person to the
point where they could not shot you dead.

I am very interested in this because I would like to find some means of
defending my home without having to purchase a hand gun.  My wife hates
them and I must admit I am a bit aprehensive about keeping a gun in the
house.  Would mace or tear gas or "pest" repelent be a (somewhat) reasonable
alternative?

Marc
----
Two of the worst things we teach our children are that a knowledge of science
is nice but not necessary, and a knowledge of sex is necessary but not nice.

Marc Guyott              Constellation Software, Inc.          (508) 620-2800
                         Framingham, Mass. 01701 USA                Ext. 3135
mguyott@primerd.prime.com       ...!{uunet, decwrl}!primerd.prime.com!mguyott
mguyott@eriador.prime.com       ...!{uunet, decwrl}!eriador.prime.com!mguyott
From: lorraine@caliban.crd.ge.com (Peter Lorraine)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: What should I know about plywood siding?
Keywords: plywood siding, Texture 1 11.
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:16:29 GMT
Followup-To: misc.consumers.house
Distribution: usa
Organization: GE Corp. Research & Development, Schenectady, NY

My wife and I are considering making a bid on a house and have a few questions about siding.  The
fact sheet for the house lists the siding as "Wood".  I asked the realtor to find out a little
more and she reported back that the owner thinks it is something called "Texture 11".  I had never
heard of this before and neither had the realtor.

I found in one of those Bob Villa type guide to building materials books a reference to a plywood
siding called Texture 1 11 (1-11?).  The illustration certainly resembles the siding on the house.

Could someone clue me in on the advantages and disadvantages of plywood siding?  I have asked a
local builder to examine the siding and roof before we bid and plan to pick his brain.  Needless to
say, this is not a replacement for a full inspection which we will require if our bid is accepted.
Any information/experiences/things to watch out for would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for any help,

              Peter Lorraine

              lorraine@crd.ge.com 
                   or
              lorraine@caliban.crd.ge.com
From: susanw@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Susan Wechsler)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Can/Should I talk to the owners?
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:16:47 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA

>....<stuff deleted>...
>So...what do you think?  Should I try to find the owners?  If so,
>what's the best route?  (I was thinking of plat maps, the county
>assessor and surveyor, and neighbors.)  I figure I have little to
>lose, but I don't want to botch things.

I believe that the owner of a piece of property is a matter of public
record.  You should be able to call the county court house to get 
information about how to do this.

--Susan
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Heat Pumps
Date: 26 Aug 92 04:56:43 GMT
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Aug25.152431.10258@engage.pko.dec.com> moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com writes:
>In article <william.zwicky-210892133704@wezwicky.cray.com>, william.zwicky@cray.com (Bill Zwicky) writes...
>>I'm considering installing a central air conditioner in my
>>house and ran across something called an "Air Source Heat Pump"
>>that would provide cool air in the summer and provide most of the
>>heat in the winter (when it gets real cold, my gas furnace takes over).
>>Has anyone had any experiences with heat pumps?  Are they cost 
>>effective/efficient?

>Cray. I'll AssUMe that you're in Minnesota, and there I would not get an air
>source heat pump as they're rather inefficient at below 20F or so and useless
>at 0F.  These systems usually have electric heat as a backup for when it
>gets really cold, and in Minnesota I'll bet you'd be using that expensive
>backup quite a bit.

Bill indicated that he has a gas furnace, so he'd be using that as
backup.  Which means that he'll be using heat pump heat during most
of the spring and fall and much of the winter, gas during the
cold bits of the winter, and heat pump A/C during the summer.

This is a pretty good compromise.  Operating costs *can't* be worse than
his existing gas, which is already pretty cost-effective for a
single-source heating system (cheaper than electric and probably cheaper
than oil).  But as you suggest, ground-source heatpumps are a lot better,
but also a lot more expensive.

I wish I understood why everybody assumes air-source heatpump backup
*has* to be, or even *usually* is electric.  It depends on the area.
In Ontario, the normal backup is gas.  I would assume that it is
in most similar climate areas (Minnesota would qualify) where available.
In our climate, electric backup would be insane - you'd be better off
with straight gas or oil - both operational *and* installation costs
would be lower.

If you already have a forced-air furnace, you just use that as backup -
the heat pump exchanger tubing section is simply installed in
series with the existing furnace's hot-air ducting - in the same way
central A/C's are connected.

Options in order of increasing operational costs (given Ontario-like
climate):

    ground source heatpump
    air-source HP + gas
    gas
    air-source HP + electric
    electric (baseboard or forced-air)

Increasing installation costs:

    electric (baseboard)
    electric (forced-air)
    gas
    electric (has to be forced-air) + air-source HP
    gas + air-source HP
    ground-source HP

In a much milder climate, ground-source heatpump would be a waste of
money, and a air-source heatpump would need backup so little, that
the cheapest-to-install backup (electric or perhaps even none aside
from ducting and fans) would be best.
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: wex@cs.ulowell.edu (Paul M. Wexelblat)
Subject: Re: 12 gauge vs 14 gauge wiring price
Originator: wex@bigmax.ulowell.edu
Reply-To: wex@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: Univ. of Lowell CS Dept.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:04:53 GMT


In article <1992Aug31.093455.3278@titan.ksc.nasa.gov>, myjak@titan.ksc.nasa.gov (Michael D. Myjak) writes:
|> From: myjak@titan.ksc.nasa.gov (Michael D. Myjak)
|> Subject: Re: 12 gauge vs 14 gauge wiring price
|> Date: 31 Aug 92 09:34:54 EST
|> 
|> > chrisb@cs.cornell.edu (Chris Buckley) writes:
|> > 
|> >> Anybody have a rough ballpark figure for the cost of building a
|> >> new house with 12 gauge wiring instead of 14-gauge?
|> >> 
|> >> We're having a 4 bedroom, 2400 sq ft house built in central NJ,
|> >> and the price the builder has quoted us is $2100.  This is a

|> Then, Gary Heston (gary@cdthq.UUCP) writes:
|> 
|> > If you have a builder that was planning to run 14 gauge wire to 
|> > outlets, get another builder. At the very least, make him show you
|> > an itemized breakdown of the cost difference. It should only vary
|> > on the material price; there's no difference in labor for using 
|> > 12 in place of 14.
|> 
As GH points out, the difference in cost for a (250') box of
12/2 wg vs. 14/2 wg is on the order of $5.00  (not much), but
I would disagree about there being no difference in labor.

In my experience, wiring a box with 12 vs. 14 takes about 50% longer
(not too much, but it adds up. stringing the much less flexible
wire in new construction take some longer too, (not 50%).
I would think that an additional 25% in labor costs would be ok.

Now, check out the difference in costs between 15 A and 20A switches
and outlets.  (You can put 20A outlets in 15 A branch circuits, but not
the other way around.) we are talking 100%+ difference for outlets
(there are cheepie [sic] 15A outlets, but no cheepie 20A'rs)

What I'm saying is that there is a lot more than the cost of the boxes
of wire.  I don't know what you're contractor is doing, but
if 25% of labor and 50% on materials comes to about $2100, he's
(she's?) not out of line.



|> Pretty soon you figure out that that motor needs more then 15 amps to
|> start and run under load. So, how does he fix this? Usually, Joe
|> Homeowner goes out and buys a new 20-amp circuit breaker and replaces
|> the 15-amp version in the panel. Any idea just how dangerous thgis
|> is?!?  14-gauge wire will get hot when attempting to carry a 20 amp
|> load... so hot that it can cause a fire... especially if the boxes are
|> undersized as well. So to me, thats where the danger lies.


ummmm.

-- 
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.

	...Wex
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: lp@well.sf.ca.us (Lily Pond)
Subject: Arts and Crafts/Craftsman Supplies
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 09:10:40 GMT


I have turned the city of Berkeley upside down looking far a door that is
not at *war* with the rest of my house with little luck, so have just spent
the price of a fairly decent stereo system on a door with which I am not
happy (front door).

Any catalogue suggestions (or stores) where you can get really nice (but not
hideously expensive) doors and other hardware type items that suit the
craftsman era style houses?

Thank you.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house