HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,sci.lang
Subject: Re: Bulgarians - descendents of a Finnis tribe?
Date: 30 Dec 92 12:41:57 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1992Dec29.064921.26491@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> howeird@hpl.hp.com (Howard Stateman) writes:
>[...] my Finnish friends are fond of telling me that the
>language of their homeland is most closely related to Hungarian.

It isn't.  There are umpteen Finnic languages, to which Finnish is
more closely related than it is to Hungarian.  Check Estonian, for one.

>Not Turkish.

Certainly not Turkish.

>However, with the long history of fierce wars between Hungary and
>Turkey, I would be surprised if there wasn't considerable overlap in the
>two languages.

Then you're in for a surprise.  There is very little overlap.

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Israeli Soldiers Kill 8-Yr Old Girl 
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:41:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.001756.6938@bony1.bony.com>, jake@bony1.bony.com
(Jake Livni) writes:
> In article <1992Dec20.173645.14218@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU
(Brad Hernlem) writes:
> 
> >What is the Israeli government doing to its young
> >people by making them do the dirty work in a cruel and prolonged
> 
> Israelis are surviving in a cruel neighborhood infamous for it's
> characteristic ability to kill millions of it's own people for wild
> military and religious "leaders", most of whom are personally master
> mass-murderers.
> 
> >Who were these soldiers protecting? ... only themselves. 
> 
> They already know it.  When the going got tough in Beirut, the US
> Marines high-tailed it out of there and flew thousands of miles away.
> They knew that they weren't protecting themselves and their loved
> ones.
> 
> Israelis, on the other hand, can only fly at 600 mph for a few minutes
> before they've crossed Israel completely and are moving over the land
> of yet another hostile neighboring state.  These same Israelis who
> have suffered the murderous and barbaric terrorism of the Arabs
> surrounding them since long before they took control of the WB and G
> in 1967 know full well that they and their own loved ones are at daily
> risk.  Those same soldiers who attended Toledano's funeral, who lived
> in gas-masks when the "Leader of the Free World", George Bush, forbade
> them from defending themselves, know very well who they are
> protecting.  They are protecting themselves because no one else will
> do it.
> 
> When people can be as overwhelmingly attacked as the Israelis have
> time and again and still receive so little world sympathy, how do you
> think this affects Israelis who struggle simply to survive?  Now you
> know. 
> 
> -- 
> Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George
Bush will
> American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy
Carter as the
> My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.

Jake, I am sure that if you applied yourself to disseminating this sort
of propaganda, even you could become one of those "wild military" or
"religious" leaders that you complain about. Just think, if you made
people feel paranoid enough, imagine the numbers of people you could get
them to kill! Think of the power, Jake...think of the thrill!!! :-) 

Fortunately, I do not believe that your ideas represent those of most
Israelis. I also do not believe that you have ever looked down the
barrel of a gun pointed at another human being (of course with enough of
your propaganda they would cease to be human).

I am serious about what I wrote. I cannot imagine that Israeli soldiers
are so full of the sort of BS that you write. They are dealing with
reality, not political theory. 

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe)
Subject: Wayne Holds Forth in Das Beer Garden / Wow!
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Distribution: talk
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:51:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.1777.21307@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:

I was going to say that I'm not sure what Wayne is talking about
when he veers off of the subject of his hate-mail accusation
against Ira Kaufman to make this speach:

>Every time that an emotional supporter of Israel raises his or
>her voice against an American citizen in this fashion, they are
>hastening the day when the U.S. will wash its hands of Israel
>altogether. With every foul word that comes from the mouth of
>people like yourself, the will to disentangle the U.S. from
>Israeli affairs is being steeled. You and your comrades may be
>deriving an immediate emotional gratification from your verbal
>violence, but when the bill comes due for your lapse in
>judgement--and I guarantee you that day is not far off--you may
>be in for a rude shock.

But let's put Wayne properly in perspective in his Brown Shirt
on a box in the beer-garden:

Every time that an emotional supporter of Israel raises his or
her voice against a German citizen in this fashion, they are
hastening the day when Germany will wash its hands of Israel
altogether. With every foul word that comes from the mouth of
people like yourself, the will to disentangle Germany from
Israeli affairs is being steeled. You and your comrades may be
deriving an immediate emotional gratification from your verbal
violence, but when the bill comes due for your lapse in
judgement--and I guarantee you that day is not far off--you may
be in for a rude shock.

Your *will* is *steeled* for the *shock* indeed.

Seig Heil Wayne!

-- Chris Metcalfe

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24053 talk.politics.soviet:9971 soc.culture.greek:11849 soc.culture.europe:10778 soc.history:10368 soc.culture.soviet:11534 soc.culture.croatia:231 soc.culture.bulgaria:2015
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Occupation
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:58:00 GMT

In article <42741@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans) writes:
><1992Dec20.053857.20960@netcom.com> zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim):
>
>If you think that the UN is picking on Israel it is because it is
>the ONLY occupying force in the world today.
>
>	Wrong.  Syria, Iran, Iraq, and Turkey are occupying
>	Kurdistan.  The PKK (the Kurdish version of the PLO)
>	seeks to make Kurdistan an autonomous Kurdish state.
>	In the last eight years, over 3700 people have died
>	in clashes with the PKK in Turkey alone.

And Syria is occupying Lebanon.
And many people feel Britain is occupying Northern Ireland.
And Serbia and Croatia are occupying Bosnia.
And Turkey is occupying Cyprus.
And, as Jake would say, the United States is occupying North America.
And China is occupying Tibet.
And India is occupying Kashmir.
And Spain is occupying the Basque homeland.
And there are all sorts of border disputes in Africa in which one
	country claims the other is occupying part of its land.
And, of course, border disputes among the former Soviet republics,
	especially Azerbajan and Armenia.

And I'm sure there are others.

Why do I think I'm going to get hate mail from people who disagree with
me?  You can send it, but I'm going to ignore it; I was making this list
to prove a point about Israel, not about these countries.  I'm sure
there are two sides to all these stories, just as there are about Israel.

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Is it too early to start making predictions for 1993?
niepornt@phoenix.    | Probably, but that never stopped me before.
   princeton.edu     | ALE: Baltimore ALW: Chicago NLE: Montreal NLW: Atlanta
Baltimore Orioles 93 | AL MVP: Cal Ripken  AL Cy Young: Mike Mussina
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24352 talk.politics.soviet:10067 soc.culture.greek:11944 soc.culture.europe:10887 soc.rights.human:4702 soc.culture.soviet:11670
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: The victims of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 19:41:43 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec29.013640.23254@klaava.Helsinki.FI> wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius) writes:

>Just look at it!  Every single point it makes above exactly matches
>itself.

Brilliant logic. Now, any comment?

 "...that more people have to die..." 

                    ASALA/SDPA/ARF <91@urartu.UUCP>

  "Yes, I stated this and stand by it."

                    ASALA/SDPA/ARF <255@urartu.UUCP>

 
    	April 8, 1982 - Ottawa
	Kani Gungor, the commercial attache at the Turkish Embassy in Ottawa,
	is seriously wounded in an attack by Armenian terrorists in the 
	garage of his apartment house. ASALA claims responsibility.

    	May 4, 1982 - Cambridge, Massachusetts
	Orhan Gunduz, the Turkish honorary consul in Boston, would not bow 
	to the Armenian terrorist ultimatum that he give up his title of 
	"honorary consul". Now he is attacked and murdered in cold blood.
	President Reagan orders an all-out manhunt-to no avail. An eye-
	witness who gave a description of the murderer is shot down.  He 
	survives.. but falls silent. One of the most revolting "triumphs" in 
	the senseless, mindless history of Armenian terrorism. Such a murder 
	brings absolutely nothing - except an ego boost for the murderer 
	within the Armenian terrorist underworld, which is already wallowing 
	in self-satisfaction.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: mideast bib       3/3
Date: 26 Dec 92 15:35:35 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

(Continued from previous message)

                      territories--Sources.
                *S2 Land settlement--West Bank--History--Sources.
                *S3 Land settlement--Gaza
                      Strip--History--Sources.
                *S4 Palestinian Arabs--Legal status, laws,
                      etc.--History- -Sources.
                *S5 Israel--Politics and government--Sources.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

        AUTHOR: Peres, Yohanan.
         TITLE: Trends in Israeli democracy : the public's view /
                  Yochanan Peres, Ephraim Yuchtman-Yaar.
     PUB. INFO: Boulder : Lynne Rienner Publishers, 1992.
   DESCRIPTION: x, 59 p. ; 23 cm.
        SERIES: An Israel Democracy Institute policy study

      SUBJECTS: *S1 Democracy--Israel--Public opinion.
                *S2 Public opinion--Israel.
                *S3 Israel--Politics and government--Public
                      opinion.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

        AUTHOR: Hadar, Leon T.
         TITLE: Quagmire : America in the Middle East / Leon T.
                  Hadar.
     PUB. INFO: Washington, D.C. : Cato Institute, 1992.
   DESCRIPTION: p. cm.

      SUBJECTS: *S1 Israel-Arab conflicts.
                *S2 Middle East--Foreign relations--United States.
                *S3 United States--Foreign relations--Middle East.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

        AUTHOR: Nisan, Mordechai.
         TITLE: Toward a new Israel : the Jewish state and the
                  Arab question / Mordechai Nisan.
     PUB. INFO: New York : AMS Press, 1992.
   DESCRIPTION: xv, 276 p. ; 23 cm.
        SERIES: AMS studies in modern society : political and
                  social issues ; no. 24

      SUBJECTS: *S1 Jewish-Arab relations.
                *S2 Zionism and Judaism.
                *S3 Judaism--Relations--Islam.
                *S4 Islam--Relations--Judaism.
                *S5 Israel-Arab conflicts.
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  The art of reading the World Soul.
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Shamir
Date: 28 Dec 92 13:21:37 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center

Paul Roberts writes:
>Question: is it not true that Shamir recently said publically something
>to the effect that "we would have kept `negotiations' going for decades,
>and never made any real concessions"?

Answer: no, it is not true. Shamir said that negotiations
should go at least for a decade in order to make any real concessions.

	Dan.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23934 soc.culture.greek:11789 soc.culture.europe:10723 soc.history:10328 soc.rights.human:4644
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.rights.human
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Such recognition is ample for the time being.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 21:35:04 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec22.042615.9607@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> deltah@ccs.northeastern.edu (Hariklia Delta) writes:

>Yes, I agree with you that TRNC is a fact. A fact that only Turkey accepts!

It is true that the Turkish sector in Cyprus is recognized
as a state by Turkiye only. Such recognition is ample
for the time being. The preferable hope for the future 
is the formation of a bona fide federation that will
afford equal and guaranteed chances of survival to both
sides.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: All Arabs are guilty
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:00:41 GMT

In article <EGGERTJ.92Dec30105709@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:

# In article <1992Dec30.035927.8795@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# >	   Assuming the census data was correct (I am not making a judgement
# >   either way on that here), assuming it is not a case of comparing
# >   apples with oranges (one area was extremely dense and that hides the
# >   fact that no one lived on other parts, which is my guess), and
# >   assuming their definition of "palestine?" is the same as what we are
# >   referring to here (my guess is that it is not) either the Ottoman
# >   empire had no density worth speaking of or its inhabitants had
# >   extremely abnormal digestive patterns (sand and swamp water must have
# >   been staples).
 
# I always thought that ancient Israel was considered the land of milk
# and honey.  It was certainly well settled before the Hebrews got
# there.  (The Hebrews did after all massacre lots of people to get
# their Israel.)  Now it is well known that the 20th century Zionists
# and Israelis have reclaimed a lot of land from the desert and swamps,
# but certainly not all of pre-20th century Palestine was unproductive
# land.

	"Milk and honey", like a lot of things in the Bible, is not
literate.  In fact, there are some instances in the Bible where famine
caused the "main characters" to leave.

	If you look at any detailed map you would see that water supplies
consistent with either enough rainfall to grow crops or for simple
irrigation are not there.

	Now, Citrus was grown in many areas, however, there was really
only one area (I believe it was Schem but my memory fails me) that was
really lush enough to grow anything more than a trivial amount of non
cirtus foods.

	The number of early deaths due to malaria and other dieases
consistent with non arad swamp land was high until steps were taken by
the Zionists.

	It was coping with these factors that has caused Israel to develop
advanced irrigation technologies and is one of the reaons why Israel
is a leader in the field of drip irrigation.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: israel & hamas
Date: 27 Dec 92 16:41:16 GMT
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.

Center for Policy Research <cpr@igc.apc.org> writes:

>I don't see the reason why Palestinians should not demand the
>demilitarization of Israel, ...

Perhaps because it was Israel which was attacked instantly upon its
reestablishment, by surrounding states with a stated goal of totally
destroying it, not the other way around?

>As much as I know,Israel has expelled hundreds of thousands of 
>Palestinians from their land, and not the other way round.

Shows how much you know.  Actually, how little.

Whatever Arabs left Israel during the '48 War, with very few
exceptions, left of their own free will in response to pleas from the
invaders to get out of the way to make the destruction of Israel
easier.  They voluntarily gave up their homes, despite the pleas of
the Jews that they remain, expecting to return in a few days to not
only reclaim their homes, but the homes of their dead Jewish
neighbors.

When their plans backfired, they then demanded that Israel do what no
nation in the history of the world has ever done, welcome back a group
of people who voluntarily left the country to aid in its destruction.

On the other hand, hundreds of thousands of Jews were indeed expelled,
involuntarily, from their homes in surrounding Arab countries, with
their life savings and homes confiscated.

Fortunately for them, Israel was willing, indeed eager, to welcome
them back home.

Had the Arabs been half as willing to welcome their brethren into
their homes, there would never have been a refugee problem.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: <k> american opinion
Date: 29 Dec 92 17:28:42 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

<knotes>

<o>#clip

<des>

     A bipartisan majority of Americans--80%--either opposes a
     $10 billion loan guarantee for Israel or wants strict
     conditions put on it. (Evans & Novak Washington Post
     10/10/91)

<doctype>newspaper op-ed article
<author>Evans, Rowland
<author>Novak, Robert
<title>Shamir's Loss, Bush's Gain
<newspaper>The Washington Post
<date>October 9, 1991
<pages>A25

<excerpt>

     What gives the Bush-Baker team its supreme confidence to
     take on a right-wing Israeli government that struck fear
     into the Reagan administration is the formidable setback to
     pro-Israel sentiment as shown in public opinion polls. The
     drop came after Shamir lost his shoot-out with Bush over
     quick action on the $10 billion loan guarantee request.

     A public sample taken last week by Gordon S. Black, who
     polls for USA Today and does periodic sampling for Fortune
     500 corporations, showed stunning reversals for Israel.
     Financed by the Arab American Institute and taken in Iowa
     and New Hampshire, the two earliest presidential testing
     grounds next year, the poll showed that a bipartisan
     majority of over 80 percent in both states is either opposed
     to the loan guarantee or wants strict conditions put on it.

     These numbers throw an ominous shadow over the U.S.-Israeli
     future. There has been nothing like that before. The long,
     intimate relationship between the two countries has never
     displayed such a breach, nor has debate on such fundamentals
     as long-term American aid for Israel ever been so widespread
     or intense. Support for new aid to Israel came out the
     lowest of all when measured against voter support for aid to
     these four countries: Israel, the Soviet Union, Poland and
     Ethiopia.

</o>
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  Library of Congress on a chip
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Jordanian Palestinians (was: israel & hamas)
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:44:51 GMT

aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>In article <1992Dec28.230547.13464@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>>
>>Funny how Israel didn't expressly exclude Arabs from being citizens.

>But I wonder what the conditions are?

The conditions were that all the Arabs who remained in Israel in 1948
became Israeli citizens.

Rough conditions, huh?
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
From: bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge)
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Organization: UCLA Cognitive Science Research Program
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:53:50 GMT

cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman) writes:

>Can you say "self hating Jew?"
>It is fine for a Jew to not support the actions of the Israeli
>government, but a Jew who does not support the idea of an
>independed Jewish state (Israel) is the type of Jew who would have
>collaborated with the Nazis, leading to the deaths of other Jews,
>just to protect himself. There were "self-hating Jews" like this
>in the Warsaw ghetto.

You're not just a teensy-weensy-eensy little bit dogmatic, are you?

Being intelligent, I understand that 1) if they don't support zionism,
then 2) they're nazi-supporting scum, therefore 3) they should 
disappear.

Next problem?
-- 
{{{{ bill eldridge           310-206-3960                x                }}}}
{{{{ bill@cognet.ucla.edu    310-206-3987 fax           xxx              }}}}
{{{{ ~more, ~better, ~faster [80's motto]                x              }}}}
{{{{ ~hot, ~toxic, and ~shallow [90's motto]                              }}}}
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Data
Date: 28 Dec 1992 04:48:06 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

In article 1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu, ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky) writes:

>	Number of deaths since the begining of the intifadah, as
>	reported in Ha'aretz, December 11, 1992, based on IDF 
>	data:


>			    	       	    KILLED BY
>				Israelies    Palestinians   Total
                                
>		Israelies           -             126+        126
	
>	DEATHS	Palestinians     831 (923)*    809 (675)*    1640

>		Total		   831            935        1766

>	* Betzelem's data
>	+ 48 in the territories, 78 within Israel
	
Thank you for this information.  One thing that isn't clear about
numbers like this is how the deaths are classified.  Take the 126
"Israelies killed by Palestinians".  Is it supposed to be all such 
killings, those with some political motive (according to who?) or 
only those somehow connected to the Intifadah?  

Incidentally, averaged over time, the total rate is similar to
the murder rate in the US.

>Noam

Brendan.