Newsgroups: alt.california
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:12:25 -0500 
From: Christopher M Stanley <cs67+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: relocation
	<1992Nov18.113923.598@gdr.bath.ac.uk>

Well, so far this has been the best debate on this board since I've been
paying attention (bout a year and a half).  Chris, so far you have
thrown out some very good points but I just gotta get my two cents in:

>>>mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
>> Also, open trade policies allowed Japanese
>>companies to dump products at below cost on the US market and
>>drive the US competitors out of business.  Then they raise
>>prices once they've got control of the market.  This has killed
>>the memory chip industry, badly hurt the auto industry, and destroyed
the steel industry.
> 
>>>steiny@steiny.com (Don Steiny) writes:
>	That is a pretty strange thing to say.    Historically open trade
>has been beneficial.    They way I see it is that US policies allowed me
>to buy a decent car from people who were capable of making a decent car.
>Are you suggesting that it would be better to subsidize incompetence 
>by increasing tariffs on foreign goods?    During the Reagan years the
>government did intercede because of dumping of RAM.    They imposed a tariff
>on DRAMS.   Because of the tariff Japanese companies could get DRAMS cheaper
>than US companies and thus could not compete in consumer electronics.   We
>shot ourselves in the foot big time.   

I would like to add some comments about the auto and steel industries.

The auto and steel industries shot themselves in the foot - in a big
way.  Both industries became big lumbering giants.  They thought no one
could touch them.  They also felt they had the right to tell their
customers "what they were going to by".  The Japanese came along and,
using American methods and know how, asked people what they would buy
then produced it.  And lo and behold people actually prefer this kind of
treatment to someone ramming a product down their throats and saying BUY
THIS!!!  Seems to me the Auto and steel industries killed themselves. 
It's called not keeping up with technology (aka sticking your head in
the mud). 

The Japanese got most, if not all, of their management, production, and
marketing theories form the U.S.. Theories that the steel and auto
industries rejected as nonsense or unworkable. Then, when the Japanese
beat them at their own game they cried foul (they must be cheating). 
No, these two industries got what they deserved.  That's life on the
corporate battlefield baby!   

The auto industry is much better off (or at least the customer is), and
those steel makers that did figure it out, and changed the way they did
business are the ones that are left.  Seems to me that's what is known
as competition.


>Why haven't we had a big boom this time.  1) Resources are in
>much shorter supply. 2) Germany and Japan were devastated after
>the war and we pilaged a lot of their industrial equipment. Now
>they are our main competitors.  My point is that the escalation of
>the arms race wasn't necessary to defeat the Soviet Union.  I don't
>believe for one minute that Star Wars caused Gorbachev to pursue
>Perestroika.

What is this crap about defeating the Soviet Union? I don't remember WE
having anything to do with it.   Was this not your quote?,   "I strongly
abhor the dehumanization of any group of people due to their race,
religion, political or sexual preferences."  If this is true why would
you want to "defeat" the Soviet Union?  Because they possess different
political beliefs?  I'm confused.  Don't tell be you believe all that
right wing crap about commies they've been force feeding us all these
years?  

I was under the impression that that big ol' mean, nasty Soviet Union
was partly created because of U.S. policy towards, so called, bad guys? 
So began the arms race.  Besides that, didn't the people of The former
Soviet Union do all the work themselves?  I'm sick of hearing how we won
the cold war when have never done anything but instigate trouble and
keep the status quo. Who can we get to be the bad guys now?  Sadam is
still around?  Hmmm, mabe if we sneak him some more arms....

nuf said

chris