HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Yes, They All Remember Cyprus.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:54:26 GMT


In article <Bu2GrB.GsE@news.cso.uiuc.edu> varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine) write:

>I do not know all the facts about the ethnic fights between Greek and Turkish
>Cypriots between 1958-1974.  All I listen to is the Greek version of the events
>which I do not claim to be the most objective.  But I think you too, Besime,
>only listened to the Turkish version, which I do not think is objective either.

I stand in my own door in my own silence, smiling at your grace.

 Peter Moorhead reporting from the village of Skyloura, Cyprus. 
 Date : 1 January, 1964. 

 IL GIARNO (Italy)
 
 THEY ARE TURK-HUNTING, THEY WANT TO EXTERMINATE THEM.

 Discussions start in London; in Cyprus terror continues. Right now we
 are witnessing the exodus of Turks from the villages. Thousands of people
 abandoning homes, land, herds; Greek Cypriot terrorism is relentless. This 
 time, the rhetoric of the Hellenes and the bust of Plato do not suffice to 
 cover up barbaric and ferocious behaviors.

 Article by Giorgo Bocca, Correspondent of Il Giorno
 Date: 14 January 1964

 DAILY HERALD (London)

 AN APPALLING SIGHT

And when I came across the Turkish homes they were an appalling sight.
Apart from the walls, they just did not exist. I doubt if a napalm bomb
attack could have created more devastation. I counted 40 blackened brick
and concrete shells that had once been homes. Each house had been deliberately
fired by petrol. Under red tile roofs which had caved in, I found a twisted
mass of bed springs, children's conts and cribs, and ankle deep grey
ashes of what had once been chairs, tables and wardrobes.

In the neighbouring village of Ayios Vassilios, a mile away, I counted 16 
wrecked and burned out homes. They were all Turkish Cypriot homes. From
this village more than 100 Turkish Cypriots had also vanished.In neither village
did I find a scrap of damage to any Greek Cypriot house.

Date: 1 January, 1964.

 DAILY TELEGRAPH (London)
 
 GRAVES OF 12 SHOT TURKISH CYPRIOTS FOUND IN CYPRUS VILLAGE

 Silent crowds gathered tonight outside the Red Crescent hospital in the
 Turkish Sector of Nicosia, as the bodies of 9 Turkish Cypriots found
 crudely buried outside the village of Ayios Vassilios, 13 miles away, were
 brought to the hospital under the escort of the Parachute Regiment. Three 
 more bodies, including one of a woman, were discovered nearby but could
 not be removed. Turkish Cypriots guarded by paratroops are still trying to 
 locate the bodies of 20 more believed to have been buried on the same site.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: deniz@atlas.ctr.columbia.edu (Deniz Akkus)
Subject: Re: Popularity of neighbouring countries.
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 05:41:59 GMT
X-Posted-From: atlas.ctr.columbia.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <kutluk.716074204@ccl.umist.ac.uk> kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven) writes:
>On the [last month's] question about Republic of Turkey's
>idea of the governments in the Middle East, Balkans and the
>CIS, I think for the time it is
>

Thank you for sharing your opinion, but I don't agree with most of your 
list.  Why are we trying to make up lists of favored countries for
Turks?  Why is this in any way better than the survey conducted by
Turkiye?  At least I am sure they had a pool of more than one person.

> 4 Syria

This is the one that I find hardest to believe.

regards,
Deniz Akkus deniz@ctr.columbia.edu


Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:10002 talk.politics.mideast:20095 talk.politics.soviet:7945 soc.culture.greek:8916 soc.culture.europe:8390 soc.history:8303 eunet.politics:1336
From: oxu2@po.CWRU.Edu (Ozer Unal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: LUTFEN BU YAZIYI OKUYUN VE USLANIN
Date: 5 Sep 1992 18:48:48 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: oxu2@po.CWRU.Edu (Ozer Unal)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, OKVH$HA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu () says:

>BU NETWORK'U ANLAMSIZ BIR SURU TEKRARLA DOLDURAN SEVGILI USERLAR. LUTFEN,
>BIRBIRININ TEKRARI 10 TANE POSTING YAPIP EKRANLARIMIZI OKUNAMAZ HALE GETIRMEYIN
>TEK POSTINGLE DE ISTEDIGINIZ KADAR BIRBIRINIZE HAKARET EDIP, DEMAGOJI
>YAPABILIRSINIZ.  BEN VE BENIM GIBILER ZATEN SIZIN YAZDIKLARINIZI OKUMUYORUZ.
>TERBIYELI, AZ VE OZ YAZIN VEYA KAVGA ETMEK ICIN GIDIP YANI BIR KANAL KULLANIN.
>KAVGA DEGIL, ULUSLARARSI ISBIRLIGIYLE ILGILENENLERE STEPHEN KRASNER'IN
>"INTERNATIOONAL REGIMES" VE KEOHANE'IN "INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTIONS..." ISIMLI
>KITAPLARINI TAVSIYE EDERIM.  DALASIP BU EKRANI DOLDURMAKTAN BASKA ISINIZ YOKSA
>GET A LIFE YA DA BIR UGRAS EDININ.
>

	I agree with you completely that people should not post any more 
"non-sense garbage" to soc.culture.turkish. But, next time you better write
such complaints in English so that others can also understand that we are
sick and tired of such trash!.
-- 
Ozer Unal
Case Western Reserve Univ.
Materials Sci & Eng. 
Cleveland, OH 44106
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: errol@leland.Stanford.EDU (errol craig)
Subject: En buyuk Gaziantepspor
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 15:30:25 GMT

>Kocaelispor     1     Gaziantepspor   2

Fenerbahce'ye, Besiktas's bos verin!
En buyuk Antep'tir!
From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: A Poll on Turkish feelings toward others
Date: 6 Sep 92 19:58:35 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


Hakan writes:

> Let's come to the point MOST DISLIKED COUNTRIES. Well, Greece must be at the
>top. The second is Southern Cyprus for sure. Percentages of those countries may
>be slightly more. Armenia is of course the third one. :-) But I am not sure
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



      Why, of course, Hakan!!  They weren't supposed to survive
      the Genocide, were they?


>about Isreal. That percentage must be very low around 10%. Because Turkiye
>has started to learn true face of neighbor countries lately.



-- Eduard Wiener
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: lambri@ifi.unizh.ch (Dimitrios Lambrinos)
Subject: Re: Popularity of neighbouring countries.
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 13:21:22 GMT


In article <kutluk.716074204@ccl.umist.ac.uk>, kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven) writes:
> On the [last month's] question about Republic of Turkey's
> idea of the governments in the Middle East, Balkans and the
> CIS, I think for the time it is
> 
> ---------------------------
> 10 Albania
> 10 Azerbaijan
> 10 Bosnia
> 10 Kirghizistan
> 10 N Cyprus
> 10 Turkmenistan
> 10 Uzbekistan
>  9 Kazakhistan
>  8 Bulgaria
>  8 Georgia
>  8 Macedonia
>  8 Russia
>  7 Croatia
>  7 Moldavia
>  7 Romania
>  7 Ukraine
>  6 Egypt
>  6 Israel
>  6 Saudi Arabia
>  5 Iran 
> -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
>  4 Iraq	
>  4 Syria
>  3 Greece
>  2 Armenia
>  1 S Cyprus
>  0 Serbia/Montenegro
> ----------------------------
> 
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> Kutluk

No!!! I don't agree.
Here is mine:

 10 Albania
 10 Azerbaijan
 10 Bosnia
 10 Kirghizistan
 10 N Cyprus
 10 Turkmenistan
 10 Uzbekistan
  9 Kazakhistan
  8 Bulgaria
  8 Georgia
  8 Macedonia
  8 Russia
  7 Croatia
  7 Moldavia
  7 Romania
  7 Ukraine
  6 Egypt
  6 Israel
  6 Saudi Arabia
  5 Iran 
  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
  4 Iraq	
  4 Syria
  3 Jordan
  2 Armenia
  1 S Cyprus
  0 Serbia/Montenegro
-10 Greece  <-----------------Keep the fo**oking raya's down always!
 ----------------------------

Dimitrios (not the Great)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
From: berne@nova3.stanford.edu (Jean-Francois Berne)
Subject: Re: how european do the turks feel
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:55:12 GMT

In article <9209082000.AA10307@kocrsw06.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.DElcoelect.COM (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>Deniz Akkus writes:
>> Are you asking whether Turkey has a legal right to try to enter the
>> EEC if it wants to?  I believe it does.  However your question seems
>> to be slanted on the side of 'does it belong there?'.  As such
>> questions often involve words such as 'civilized' I am tired of
I did not mean to offense anyone here, I don't confuse a people and
its govt.
My question had to do with 'does it belong there?' but not with
how 'civilized' Turkey is. I have travelled enough to by-pass such
questions!

>> answering.  I am sure our Greek friends will fill you in with their
>> opinions on the matter.
>
>What an interesting statement. I wonder if villages in, say, Sicily,
>Spain, or Greece, are any more or less 'civilized' than the ones in
>Anatolia. (don't have a list of provinces handy, sorry).
>
>Entrance to the EEC is simply money. What XXX has to give and what XXX
>has to offer in return... In Turkiye's case, the obvious "to give"
>feature is lots of cheap labor. I chuckle every time you (or anyone

I do not believe that money is the only key. For example, would
Greece have become a member if it were still suffering from the
"colonels" diktat? <- This is a real question! I think it wouldn't.
Would Spain have become a member under Franco? (After all, he ruled
till '75 -? verif ?-after the first EEC kernel was created.)
Some compliance with EEC standards of govt is a condition sine qua non
to enter it.
Turkey has cheap labor force, Poland has an even cheaper one and
pretty well educated too. But I doubt it can enter EEC with Walensa
as president.

So I do not believe that economical reasons rule alone in the
process of integration of another member.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: senel@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Hakan)
Subject: iki makale
Originator: senel@irlsp
Organization: Takanumi University of Technology, Tokyo, Japan
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 14:58:26 GMT


Bugun gittigim doktorun yazihanesinde iki ayri dergide ilgi cekici
iki makale gordum:
    Birisi Agustos 31 tarihli oldugunu hatirladigim Time'da
kibris uzerine bir yazi.
    Oburu ise New Yorker'da (Saniyorum 6 Nisan sayisinda) "Turkestan"
diye bir yazi. Bu oldukca uzun idi.
    Dergileri alamadigim icin sizlere bunlari aktaramiyorum. Icinizde
biraz vakti olan, yada bir tarayicisi olan bunlari bana iletebilirse
uyelerimizin gerisi ile paylasiriz...

AToprak
trknws-l sahibi
From: trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: News from Tolga
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:56:00 GMT
Organization: Systems'n'Software


                                   San Francisco Bay Area 
                                        6 September 1992
 
   Yes, Tolga is back in Turkey! He is thanking everybody 
who has financially and morally supported him in his fight 
against leukemia. 
   He promised that he will pay back the assistance he 
received by helping other leukemia patients. 
   Tolga lost some weight during his treatment, but now his 
weight is increasing. In fact, he gained two kilos in Turkey 
in one week! 
   He is taking walks in Ankara. He will be returning to the 
Fred Huchinson Cancer Center in Seattle for a checkup in a 
year. He will also stop by the SF Bay Area. 
   Once again, thanks to all the SCT and trknws-l followers 
for supporting Tolga.
   
 
        Ahmet Toprak
        trknws-l owner
 
 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:9948 talk.politics.mideast:19995 talk.politics.soviet:7899 soc.culture.greek:8847 soc.culture.europe:8350 soc.history:8249
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,soc.history
Subject: Jews were subjected to violent attacks by Greek population.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 18:01:02 EDT
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <18p3ueINNs4q@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> by403@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>Nope. I'm targeting 'Soysal' et. al. in the Mut*u/Cos*r/KEL*Y/Soys*l posthouse.

Nightmarish threat? 

Source: Professor Stanford J. Shaw, 'The Jews of the Ottoman Empire and 
        the Turkish Republic,' New York University Press, New York (1991).

  page 24 (second paragraph):

  <<In Corfu Jews were subjected to violent attacks and almost constant
   persecution by its Greek population. They had to row in the galleys
   even when they had committed no crime. They had to provide food and
   lodging for soldiers on demand, were required to go to Greek law courts
   on the Sabbath as well as during Jewish festivals, and as elsewhere in
   the Byzantine empire they were compelled to act as public executioners,
   adding to the public wrath to which they were normally subjected. After
   Venice took control of the island in 1386, conditions became even worse.>>

 page 24(last paragraph):

  <<There had been thousands of Jews living in Byzantium following the
   exodus from the Holy Land, but in consequence of all this persecution
   many were forcibly converted and massacred, and most of the remainder
   fled.....(...) As a result by the time the Ottomans conquered Anatolia
   during fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, hardly any Jews remained.>>

  page 25:

  <<Byzantium, however, was breaking up, fortunately for the few Jews
  who remained under its dominion. As the Turkomans invaded Anatolia
  starting with their rout of the Byzantine army at the Battle of
  Menzikert (1071) [Malazgirt] and formed Turkoman principalities
  throughout the peninsula, and as the Seljuk Turks established a more
  settled state centered, first in defense of the Abbasid Empire of
  Baghdad, and later in Konya and Central Anatolia starting the twelfth
  century (the Seljuks of Rum, 1077-1246), Byzantine Jewry sprang rapidly
  to their assistance, welcoming the tolerance and prosperity which the
  rule of Islam was offering them once again, as it had done previously
  both in the Middle East and Spain, with thousands of Jews fleeing from
  Byzantine persecution to Seljuk protection even before the Ottoman
  state was born.>>

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: tas@dekalb.dc.peachnet.edu (N. Tasova)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Tsi*'s blah blah distinguish blah Lausanne blah blah
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:46:43 GMT
Organization: DeKalb College - Llamado despues el Baron Johann DeKalb

In article <1992Sep10.204630.23709@news.yale.edu> Jennifer A. Pursell writes:
>I honestly am puzzled.  Does there exist some connection between these
>articles about Jews taking refuge in Turkey from European persecutions and
>the original point of conention - i.e. the Lausanne/Montreaux/blah blah
>treaty about these Eagean islands?  I simply have trouble picturing, in my
>own mind, any tangible (or metaphysical, for that matter) connection.  
>
>Also, a word about the comment about Turkey's being "undemocratic" as a
>"free press" does not exist, according to the person who made the statement
>in the first place, and who later asked for a response of some kind:
>     
>        I'm no expert; I don't pretend to be.  I see Turkey as a country
>very much between worlds, in a sense.  In my opinion, the people of Turkey
>are trying to 'westernize' and 'democratize' as well as 'capitalize' their
>government and way of life.  I think that "free press" is a tricky term. 
>For instance, I do not think that the mass media of the United States is
>without its own, perhaps covert, system of censure and 'selective
>reporting'.  No government has ever existed without corruption, and none
>ever will.  No society has ever existed without engendering (unfortunately)
>prejudice, hatred, violence and war on at least some level.  What I'm
>trying to say is that I believe that many Turkish citizes care about
>improving their nation and making it a better, more western and more
>democratic place (by the way, I do not believe that westernization as a
>general concept is necessarily a positive one).  Reading all these articles
>and seeing people constantly 'pointing the finger' and insulting one
>another does absolutely nothing to increase knowledge of the issues and to
>improve international relations.  Let us try to work with one another and
>to show some understanding for one another.
>
>Sincerely, 
>
>Jennifer

   AMEN!

*****************************************************************************
UUCP:     {gatech,emory}!dekalb!tas  | "Ottoman Empire won't fall for humor 
BITNET:   NTASOVA@UGA.BITNET         | in its rock" from NIGHT BEAT. The      
INTERNET: tas@dekalb.dc.peachnet.edu | newly formed Ottoman Empire debuts   
INTERNET: bg388@cleveland.freenet.edu| at the Cotton Club here in Atlanta.
*****************************************************************************
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:9951 talk.politics.mideast:19998 talk.politics.soviet:7902 soc.culture.greek:8850 soc.culture.europe:8353 soc.history:8252
From: mistik@mistik.anatolia.mn.org (Mustafa Soysal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: new business
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 12:29:16 EDT
Organization: N.A.

> From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
> Subject: Re: new business
> Message-ID: <Bu9LqH.11D@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
> Date: 8 Sep 92 15:01:29 GMT
> References: <1992Sep5.225239.2019@newshost.unh.edu> 
> <4236131@mistik.anatolia.mn.org>
> Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.
> Lines: 28
> 
> mistik@mistik.anatolia.mn.org (Mustafa Soysal) writes:
> 
> 
> >your account with may have restrictions on that.  Other than that, there
> >is really no rule about anything other than US law that applies to
> >usenet news.
> 
> US law? Since when did US law become the de facto legal standard for Usenet?

I think there is a misunderstanding of my omission of <here>.  US law is
the one applies to me and to the original poster of the new business
announcement, as we are in the US.  As you are in Britain, I assume that
British law would apply to you, etc. 

See, in the US states, world almost equals US, and although I resented
it at first, I quickly got used to it, since here, US is all there is. 
I am not saying it is right or wrong, but I seemed to have adopted that
defacto standard here, so therefore I omitted <here>.

> 
> The only 'rules' that exist are voluntary ones posted to the newusers groups.
> It would probably have been better if the individual had posted his announcement
> to the .announce or .new.products group and cross-posted a short message to
> the target groups directing people there, after all, why risk chasing away
> potential customers.

While I agree that your suggestion could be an alternate way, maybe even
better, I would have to emphasize that the only rules aren't the rules
that are voluntarily posted.  Here in the US, court law and US law does
apply.  For example, recently a bbs owner in Ohio got raided and closed
since he was allowing minors to access to Usenet material considered harmfull
by the law, thru his bbs.

> 
> >Particular networks distributing the news may have
> >problems with certain topics coming from outside that network, however,
> >one could argue whose responsibility it is to limit distribution unless
> >distribution is targeted specifically to that network. 
> 
> It's up to individual sites to decide ther own rules as to what they
> will/won't carry and what is/isn't permissable by users. US law isn't worth
> a toss outside Uncle Sam's shores and this is an International net rather
> than a USnet.

Well, I won't argue whether or not US law may apply outside the US,
since there might be special aggreeements between countries involved,
however, individual sites may not be able to choose at will what to cary
or not, at least here in the US, as applying US laws might consider it a
limitation of access to media, therefore limiting freedom of speech.
Then again, there might be ways of agreements for preventing such cases.

> 
> Dave
> 
> -- 

--
Mustafa Soysal
===============================================================================
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Mutlu violating Usenet RFC
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:14:06 GMT
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <BuCD3r.KIJ@news.orst.edu> stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:

In article <18m78pINN6nm@agate.berkeley.edu> gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert) writes:
>intentionally false email addresses were used.  Instances
>of intentionally false email addresses generally are referred
>to as "forgeries" and are bad 

An opinion. Not universal in scope.

>for two reasons; one, the responsible person is unknown,

So? An opinion can be valid even when you don't know who holds it. 
Opinions are BEST judged without regard to the author.

> and two, there is no way
>for feedback (replies) to be sent to the sender.

Feedback can be sent in the same manner that I am sending you feedback.
Reason two is specious.

>which no name server or the Network Information Center will identify
>as being real. 

Neither name service nor NIC has anything to do with UUCP sites. If
you demand that either or both must know UUCP addresses, then you shut
off all UUCP sites (that don't happen to have an Internet address
to go with them).
From: hkanb@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Kemal Anbarci)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Cumhuriyet Hafta's address???????
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:12:31 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

I need the subscription information for Cumhuriyet Hafta,
if you know the address or phone number please post in
this newsgroup or send an e-mail to: 
                                     hkanb@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com

Tesekkurler.
Kemal.

Voice: (310) 694 - 9140
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: senel@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Hakan)
Subject: Mac Sonuclari    (forwarding from TRKNWS-L)
Originator: senel@irlsp
Organization: Takanumi University of Technology, Tokyo, Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:40:34 GMT

> From: "(Al Trh)" <trh@jack.sns.com>
> Subject:      Maclar...

> Erhan'dan AEMBBU@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
>
>  I. Lig sonuclari (4. Hafta)
>
>  Ankaragucu 0 - Bursa 1
>  Altay 1 - Trabzon 3
>  Kayseri 1 - Karsiyaka 1
>  Bakirkoy 3 - Genclerbirligi 2
>  Gaziantep 0 - Besiktas 0
>  Sariyer 0 - Kocaeli 1
>  Konya 1 - Fenerbahce 5
>  Galatasaray 1 - Aydin 0
>
>  Polonya ile oynanacak milli mac nedeniyle onumuzdeki hafta I.Ligde mac
>  yok.
>