From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Religion and the Schools (was Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:15:48 GMT

In article <1gncmtINNscs@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com
(Walter Smith) writes:
> rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden) writes:
> > But don't expect us to whoop for joy when we're still considered
> > "unnatural" and "abnormal".
> > Of course we're working for acceptance.  Tolerance is an important
> > first step, but it is only the first step...
> 
> With "you can't please everyone" in mind:
> Do you accept religion's "right" (for lack of a better word) to teach 
> that homosexuality is an "abomination" (I think that's the word I've
> heard used) against God, and is therefore immoral and evil? 

Yes, just as I accept that a religion can teach that eating pork is an
abomination against God, and is therefore immoral and evil, or that
eating meat of any sort is an abomination against God, and is therefore
immoral and evil, or that waging war is an abomination against God, and
is therefore immoral and evil.  This does not mean that school
cafeterias must stop serving pork or meat in general, or that history
classes must teach that all war is evil.

As someone once expressed it:

> It seems that the only objection to people loving whom and how they
> will is that it is against certain religions, and that those who
> follow these religions are terrified that their children may be
> exposed to the behavior of those who do not follow these religions.
> 
> It is against the Jewish religion to eat pork.  Yet pork is a popular
> food in this country, and Jewish children are surely exposed to
> people eating pork.  Yet in spite of this, Jewish children do not, as
> a rule, spend their time sneaking around surreptitiously scarfing
> down pork sandwiches.  It is against certain Hindu sects beliefs to
> eat meat.  Yet their children do not sneak around eating hot dogs or
> hamburgers.
> 
> So, I am forced to ask, what is it about the Christian religion that
> it needs to hide the very existence of acts which its dogma forbids
> from its followers?  Why can not Christians simply teach their
> children that they should not do such things, as the Jews do in
> regard to pork, or the Hindu with regard to meat?  (Or the Mormons
> with regard to alcohol, etc.)  I am forced to a rather limited set of
> selections to choose my answer from.
> 
> It is possible that the Christian faith does not invoke the same
> strength of belief that the Jewish or Hindu or Mormon faiths do, and
> thus its children are more likely to stray from the paths of
> righteousness.  It is possible that those who follow this Christian
> faith do not know how to teach their children their version of Right
> and Wrong, and thus the children never learn that certain acts are
> "bad," again unlike other faiths.  It is possible that Christians
> simply never teach their children anything along these lines, but
> instead rely on keeping the knowledge of the world from their
> children, perhaps in an attempt to re-create the innocence of Eden.
> In any case, since *other* religions seem to have much less trouble
> inculcating their young with the dogma of religion, and having their
> young follow same all their lives, I suspect that the Christian
> religion has a *bug*.  A BUG! that prevents their children from
> learning their version of righteousness, and so necessitates that
> Society ***program around their bugs!***
> 
> I object to this, in life as much as in my work.  If you have bugs in
> your software, or in your religion, it's *your* job to correct them
> so that your software, or religion, behaves the way you want it.
> It's NOT *my* job to make changes to *my* software, or *my* religion,
> so that yours works properly.
> 
> It seems that the only way we can expect Christians to become
> tolerant of others' beliefs is if we can help them repair these
> deficiencies in their religion, so that they may indoctrinate their
> children strongly enough that the training may survive exposure to
> the behavior of others.
> 
> I object very strongly to these people's attempts to use the
> machineries of the State to change our society in the ways necessary
> to work around the BUGS in their religion.  I submit that attempts to
> make "public expression" of male-male (etc.) romantic love are
> illegal, by virtue of the separation of church and state, being no
> more than an attempt to cover the deficiencies of their church with
> the powers of our state.

What he said.

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"God does not play dice with the universe."  --Albert Einstein
"Albert, stop telling God what to do."  --Niels Bohr
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