HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: a cure for angst?
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 11:59:54 GMT
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand
Summary: kilroy replies to another of Deb's posts. Is this a pattern?

llama@pooh.cc.utexas.edu (sine nomine) writes:

> carl_aude (carl_aude.nesbmail@qmgate.larc.nasa.gov) wrote:
> 
> : That is the whole problem with your 'cures for angst,' they are just
> : temporary.  A temporary cure is no cure at all.  In fact, I contend
> : that seeing all things as temporary and/ or only seeking after
> : things that are temporary is the root of angst.
> 
> from the biblical quote at the end of your post, i'll assume you're
> a christian. from that, i'd assume that you see your faith as a 
> permanent cure for angst.
>
> [...much more deleted...]

Now now deb. I know a good ad-hominiem attack against Looney Christians is fun 
(after all, I indulge frequently) but it's not really fair and you are
assuming quite a bit (he could be an Atheist and chose the bible quote as
something suitably ironic or satirical).

> i want to interact with other people and i want my existence
> to have meant something more than x pounds of food and liters of oxygen
> consumed, y pounds of byproducts released.

Unfortunately of course, it won't. But then, this is alt.angst.

> i want passion. i want to consume and be consumed. i want to feel, even
> if feeling means being in pain a lot. the painful parts are horrible,
> and sometimes i think i'm going to die, but when the ecstasy hits, it's
> real and amazing and i wouldn't miss it for the world. turning off my
> brain and ceasing to think and dropping into a warm gray world of
> religious certainty would be worse than death. hell isn't flames; it's
> thick, soupy fog.

Yeah, this is terrifyingly right on the button.

						- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"
From: llama@pooh.cc.utexas.edu (sine nomine)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: strange definition of love
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:57:01 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

how do you know when you're really in love?

a possible answer occured this afternoon.
 
you're in a relationship with someone you like a lot.
the realization hits you that life without this person would be
  calmer, simpler, less of a hassle, less angstful, less challenging.
  you'd feel less conflicted and probably the amount of pain in your
  life would decrease.
you stay anyway.

[in other words, maybe love is marked by the willingness (or even
eagerness) to bear psychological discomfort for the sake of your
growth, both individually and as a couple.]

--
sine | deb
i know the following is cheesy, corny, inappropriate. flame if you want:
i love you, james. even when it's difficult. thank you for this week.
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: a cure for angst?
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:17:11 -0600

In article <20212@acorn.co.uk>  writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.142509.2374@gacvx2.gac.edu> emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp) writes:
>
>>Actually, 1) everyone has a religion  (M. Scott Peck, _The Road Less Travelled_)
>>         2) not all religions are "blind faith" or "certain."
>>             ex: _your_ religion.
>
>No, no, no, I'm not going to accept that. How many times have I heard that old
>line 'Any belief system is a religion'. There are major differences between
>a group of 'truths' that someone chooses as a guide for their behaviour
>and a set of rules; obeyance of which is achieved through a mixture of
>coercion and fear.

There are differences, yes. The point, though, lies in the similarities. Someone
using the latter (set of rules, obeyance) chooses those rules as "truths", if you
will.

>For the word 'religion' to have any useful purpose in the language we must
>restrict its use to the more conventional belief systems, for example
>those involving an omnipotent being or beings, and find another word for
>other belief systems.

Do with it as you want. That's fine.. Actual definition of the word is not my point.

>Otherwise people start calling science a religion and I just cannot accept
>that. Whether you believe in science or not it is fundamentally different
>from what we generally accept as a religion.
From: pdherzog@fozzy.UUCP (Paul D. Herzog)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: More dream bullshit......
Keywords: dreams
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:11:15 GMT
Distribution: alt.angst
Organization: Alcatel Network Systems, Richardson Texas, USA

There was a girl that I *connected* with (fell in love does not quite cover
it).  She was the "soulmate" that sine is always talking about.  Anyway, she
dumped me quite unceremoniously about three years ago to move in with this guy
who beat her and got her pregnant.  I played the role of "shoulder to cry on"
because I still loved her, and then she changed her phone number and doesn't
call anymore.

After a year, she was finally out of my head, at least the grieving process
(that's not the right term, but I don't know exactly what is) was finishing.
Then last night I had a dream that her and I were sitting in a never-ending
pasture with a forest on the horizon in all directions, talking, laughing,
hugging, sharing, being......

Fuck.


--- Zog
_______________________________________________________________________________
Paul D. Herzog                  | "You don't want the emotion, because the
Alcatel Network Systems, Inc.   |  taste it leaves is for real. Well, 
Dallas, Texas                   |  nothing's ever real until it's gone." 
I-net: pdherzog@aud.alcatel.com |                        --- Bob Mould
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: Keys and psychological aspects
From: quirke_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:46:17 NZST
Distribution: world
Organization: Welligton City Council, Public Access.
Summary: In which our hero shows he has no idea what he is talking about...
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

bs584@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeanne Leidy) writes:
> 
> In a previous article, quirke_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz () says:
> 
>> [My semi-arrogant ramble deleted to prevent people barfing] 
>
> Can you teach me to do this?  Please!?  I've been working on this one for
> *years*...still not there yet...

   Nope, and I'm sorry to say that. If I knew what I was doing, I'd be rich.

   I'm still dirt-poor.
   I'm still avoiding getting off my ass and scratching in the rat-race.
   I still occasionally bounce off the walls, and have to seek company out.
   I still do things I wish I didn't, and I still say things that hurt others
    around me.

BUT
   We're all here only for the short-term. To give your time or energy to
things others expect of you, or to things society tells you you should is
pointless. Everything is transitory.
   Meaning the only person that you have to please is yourself. You're the
only one who counts. And that's a responsibility.
   It also means that it's not all that important what others think of you
just as long as you're doing what you want. But make certain that when you're
deciding what you want, it's because you have some image of how you'd like
yourself to be. Giving your life in hire-purchase to causes or other people
for their own sakes is stupid. Giving it because it fits in with your vision
of yourself isn't.
   IMHO people, and caring for people, are part of what makes us human. I'm
willing to be more understanding of other's flaws and problems, simply because
I have them as well. Knowing that, I don't really care if others see those
flaws, or if I don't live up to other people's expectations of me, just as long
as I'm attempting, however slowly, to become more as I want myself to be.

   It doesn't matter if you're not what others want you to be. It never did.
If you're struggling towards what you want to be, that's sufficient.

Tony Q.
From: anneb@dhhalden.no (ANNE GUDLEIKSDATTER BERG)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: about 'naked' nightmares
Date: 22 Nov 92 15:01:49 GMT
Organization: Ostfold College

In article <kwi.29@postman.hsn.no> kwi@postman.hsn.no (KLAUS WILLIAM WIK) writes:
>From: kwi@postman.hsn.no (KLAUS WILLIAM WIK)
>Subject: about 'naked' nightmares
>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:00:30 GMT
>	Some time ago there were someone talking about dreaming of waking up 
>naked at school,not realizing until then they forgot to put on clothes.
>
>	YOU HAVEN'T HAD THAT NIGHTMARE UNTIL YOU COME TO NORWAY IN MAY!!
>In Norway we have a tradition that after 12 yrs at school(when we are aprox 
>19 yrs), we have a longer time of partying.17th of may is our national 
>hollyday,kinda' like 4 of july, with children walking in different school 
>parades and later on there is this 'citizens' parade.Here the graduates join 
>in.They are called 'russ', not to be mistaken with russians or even familiar 
>to that.It all starts on 1th of may.Then the 'russ' is given his suit or 
>outfit:an overall in his respective colour(depending on what courses on 
>school).From now on and to the exams or 17th of may or to the date the '
>russ' commity decide, theres PARTYTIME.
>	Now for the nightmare.Aong with the overal is a cap with a string(
>not a students cap), and the main purpose of the 'russ' is to get this 
>string filled with trinkets, that symbolizes a prize for his achievements.
>These achievements consists of how much he's been drinking(Beer,Booze,Wine 
>or Soft Drinks),how many crazy things he's done(walking on 4 in a mall,
>barking or swimming before 17th of may(NORWAY OK?) etc) and other things 
>with love/sex as a subject.
>	THE NIGHTMARE IS THAT I WOKE UP(from stone drunk) IN A MALL NAKED 
>IN THE MIDLE OF THE NIGHT,FREEZING MY JOHNY COCKEROO OFF!!!!!!
>AIN'T THAT A NIGHTMARE???"WHERE'S MY CLOTHES, HOW DO I GET HOME?????"
>	I even got a negro doll in my capstring for walking 2 miles through 
>the city centrum,including a TV surveilanced mall.
>I bathed in below zero'C/32'F water, Ice still drifting by.(icecream stick 
>to my string)
>Drank ALOT OF BEER,(aprox 2,3 gallons or 9 liters in 18 hrs)
>
>	Afterwards I had nightmares of me waking up naked in the most 
>bizarre places,chased by a beerbarrel through deep snow&ice
>If thats not angst in the real meaning of angst(horror) I dont know!
> 
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: sokay@cyclone.mitre.org (Stephen J. Okay)
Subject: Re: a cure for angst?
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:46:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.212531.11076@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> rperkins@astro.as.arizona.edu (Rachel J. Perkins) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.142509.2374@gacvx2.gac.edu> emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp) writes:
>>>> carl_aude (carl_aude.nesbmail@qmgate.larc.nasa.gov) wrote:
>>>> 
>>..
>>>> i want passion. i want to consume and be consumed. i want to feel, even
>>>> if feeling means being in pain a lot. the painful parts are horrible,
>>>> and sometimes i think i'm going to die, but when the ecstasy hits, it's
>>>> real and amazing and i wouldn't miss it for the world. turning off my
>>>> brain and ceasing to think and dropping into a warm gray world of
>>>> religious certainty would be worse than death.
>>
>>Actually, 1) everyone has a religion  (M. Scott Peck, _The Road Less Traveled_)
>>	  2) not all religions are "blind faith" or "certain."
>>	      ex: _your_ religion.

Had to comment here, as a similar quote from "Ender's Game" came to mind
as I read this:
	"Nobody is truly an individual. Everybody is controlled in some
way by somebody else. All we can hope to do is hope that we get controlled
by the good ones and that we control good ourselves".---Valentine,
						     "Ender's Game"

---Steve
-- 
Stephen Okay  sokay@mitre.org
"You see, I'm kind of this control freak who likes to create his own
personal hells before the real one can get to him. I like to beat hell
to hell so to speak".--Spalding Gray "Monster in a box"
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: behrenss@hphalle6.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Soenke Behrens)
Subject: Re: When Does It End?
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 08:03:51 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

sine nomine (llama@pooh.cc.utexas.edu) wrote:

: : When does a relationship end? Does it ever end? Does it ever stop
: : hurting? Or is the Ex-S.O. doomed to return again and again and again

This depends entirely on you. How "mature" are you? Can you be independent?
Are you capable of not making the same mistakes (partner-choosing wise)
over and over? The last part usually is the hardest ... people tend to
develop a bad habit in choosing their partners, even if (or rather
because?) they do not perceive this as their choosing, but an act of chance.

: : Is everything always going to be my fault?

Not necessarily. Or perhaps all the time? Again, this has to do with the way
you choose your partners. It doesn't help to blame you or him/her, BTW,
but it helps to try to see one's own motives and actions as well as those
of the beloved one rather rationaly, that is w/o the filters we usually
put up when in love :)

Yours

Soenke

--
===========================================================================
More than silver, more than gold, I need   !    behrenss@informatik.
electricity. I need it for my dreams.      !    tu-muenchen.de
(RACTER)                                   !  FIDO: 2:246/13 Soenke Behrens
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: winkern@columbia.dsu.edu (NANCY MARIE WINKER)
Subject: NEW READER NEEDS SOMETHING
Organization: Dakota State University
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:21:02 GMT

I just had to add something here, even though I'm not sure what angst is 
exactly.  I think I have it, but I'm not sure.

I have been seeing this guy for eight years now, not knowing exactly how to 
define our relationship as it tends to sway back and forth as an empty swing 
on a swingset in the March winds.  We have had as many falling outs as we 
have had falling-ins.  I have left him to date other men, only to date the 
man that set us up in the first place, and only to end up back with my 
original.  It never ceases to amaze me.

It is almost Christmas once again, and once again he has decided that we 
cannot continue this thing, due to--you'll love this:  "Irreconcilable 
Differences"--to which I said:  "Does this mean we are getting a divorce?  I 
thought people had to get married before they get divorced!"  And by the end 
of the discussion I told him that as far as I could see we had no "
Irreconcilable Differences" and that I would not acknowledge them if they 
were indeed there.

I'm sure that once the Holiday season passes, he will be back to his normal 
self, which could hardly be classed as normal in our sect, but in his it 
will suffice.  

I guess the reason I don't get on with my life and find something better to 
replace this is that I'm too busy anyway to care, and that since I am the 
only friend this guy has left around here, I stick around.  He had manic-
depressive tendencies, and someone better be there when he finally cracks, 
so they can pick up the pieces and sweep him under the rug.

I am too hard on him.  When he isn't in the mood he is in lately, he is very 
honest, understanding, patient, blah blah blah.  But he bores me like an old 
husband.  When I look in a mirror after watching Married with Children, I 
see myself as a redhead.

I just want a few things:  good conversation, occassional entertainment, and 
once in a while some rocketing sex.  I don't think I ask too much.

What do you think?  Codependency to the hilt?

Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: smolin@physics.ucla.edu (Smolin)
Subject: Re: Is this love, or just a dead heart??
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:17:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.054919.3206@utkux1.utk.edu> kovarik@martha.utcc.utk.edu (StMeechTheThwacked) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.062132.5844@linus.mitre.org> sokay@cyclone.mitre.org (Stephen J. Okay) writes:
>>
>>But not this time. She's great, I like her a lot,even starting to care about
>>her, but there's no sound of engines warming up in the back of my head,
>>no rush of adrenaline, no obsessive thoughts, no crying, no endless checking
>>for email or anything like that...just lots of thoughts, ideas, images,etc.
>>but none of the tyranny of emotion that has always been stock standard for
>>me at times like this.
>>Am I actually in control of my feelings this time, or have they been so 
>>stomped on and beat out of me that I don't even have them anymore.....?
>>
>
>Maybe the engines really only "warm up" that first time you fall in love?
>When you don't know what to expect?  Now you know or believe or expect
>things may not last, so you prepare yourself for the worst by convincing
>yourself that the whole thing isn't that important. Or you think you
>know what to expect.  Maybe I am just a little too cynical.  
>
>Back when I was younger, if I met a woman, my enthusiasm and expectations
>would accelerate to warp drive.  Now I just say: "I'll wait and see."
>I'm too tired of it all.  
>
>

This is the most angstful thing I've read in this newsgroup so far.  When even
love fails to be exciting that is when things start looking really bad.  I
know, I feel this way a lot.  I much prefer being excited and miserable over
someone (even if things don't work out) to the dead feeling of not caring
about anything at all.

John
like lemmings leaving a sinking ship
..
..
From: kath@pico.dr.att.com (54626-LeeK(DR1971)210)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: Is this love, or just a dead heart??
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:19:32 GMT

In article <83937@ut-emx.uucp>, llama@pooh.cc.utexas.edu (sine nomine) writes:
|> kovarik@martha.utcc.utk.edu (StMeechTheThwacked) wrote:
|> 
|> : Maybe the engines really only "warm up" that first time you fall in
|> : love?  When you don't know what to expect?  Now you know or believe or
|> : expect things may not last, so you prepare yourself for the worst by
|> : convincing yourself that the whole thing isn't that important. Or you
|> : think you know what to expect.  Maybe I am just a little too cynical.
|> 
|> i dunno. my first "love," the guy i married, was increidbly low-key. i
|> had a fairly torrid affair right before i moved here, but that was
|> followed by a series of really quiet involvements. then i started
|> dating the guy i tend to think of as my major ex, and it was like i'd
|> never quite understood the concept before. lotsa smarm, lotsa
|> burbling, lots of euphoria.
|> 
|> after that breakup, i thought i'd definitely burned out whatever part
|> of my brain produces that. i dated half-heartedly and even fell in
|> "love" again, but it was like a business transaction: calm,
|> controlled, reasonable.
|> 
|> now i'm back to the incredible ecstatic rush again. and even though
|> things are settling into a sort of "reality intrudes and we learn to
|> deal with each other as real people" phase, that excitement and joy
|> and wonder at our luck is still there.
|> 
|> so maybe sometimes as you get older you get more prosiac, and with the
|> ex, i'd known him for ages before the chemistry was there, but
|> sometimes it still happens all at once.
|> 
|> --
|> sine | deb
|> or, of course, i'm a mutant.
|> (and, btw, it was definitely worth the wait.)

hi,
	new reader here, following the course of this particular item.
	hmmm, i'm kind of curious as to how long you've been with this
	latest person (maybe it's just the blindness of love right now
	keeping you in the excitement & joy mode, and when you regain
	your vision you'll lose the euphoria)

	Also, when the original writer was talking about this it brought
	to mind the men i've known who felt this "engine warming" stuff
	ecstasy is all well and good, but sometimes destructive
		a man carving my initials in his chest, a man
		leaving ridiculously expensive gifts on my door
		step every day...
	these things tend to make me wonder if it's me they want or the
	thrill they are somehow receiving in feeling this much emotion
	as though they're more addicted to passion than in love with a
	person.  sometimes a quieter sense of emotion is alot more able
	to survive the realities of life, of love, of time...


	ps:  i returned the gifts.

		kath
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: a cure for angst?
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:25:07 -0600

>> carl_aude (carl_aude.nesbmail@qmgate.larc.nasa.gov) wrote:
>> 
..
>> i want passion. i want to consume and be consumed. i want to feel, even
>> if feeling means being in pain a lot. the painful parts are horrible,
>> and sometimes i think i'm going to die, but when the ecstasy hits, it's
>> real and amazing and i wouldn't miss it for the world. turning off my
>> brain and ceasing to think and dropping into a warm gray world of
>> religious certainty would be worse than death.

Actually, 1) everyone has a religion  (M. Scott Peck, _The Road Less Traveled_)
	  2) not all religions are "blind faith" or "certain."
	      ex: _your_ religion.
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: senx0002@student.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: inconsequential
Keywords: aaagghh.
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 00:20:45 GMT

Ooops.  Sorry.  I meant to add:

Thanks for listening.

Maya

Newsgroups: alt.angst,alt.suicide.holiday
From: b645zhy@utarlg.uta.edu (Mark Luckstead)
Subject: Re: alt.suicide.fantasy.interpretation, anyone?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:46:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.061307.7905@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, bena@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Ben Aveling) writes...
>Mark Allan (allan@slab.unt.edu) wrote:
>: >so i walked over the river tonight, and i looked down over the
>: >guardrails, and i thought, "wow, i could just throw my book and my
>: >walkman and my purse over the edge, into the water, and no one could
>: >stop me." i wanted to for a moment, just to do it, to push things. but
>: >i didn't want to lose these things i liked.
> 
>I sometimes want to drop my keys off bridges or down drains.  Avoidance of
>responsibilty I figure.  
> 
>	Ben	:-)

I'm looking at _The Bridge_ by Franz Kafka.  It's about what happened one 
time when a bridge forgot its responsibility.  LC: PT 2621 .A26 B713
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: inconsequential
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 12:37:08 GMT
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand

senx0002@student.tc.umn.edu writes:

> I hope my bitching hasn't offended you.  I really don't hate everyone.

Why not? You should try it, it's fun.

						- k
						(yeah right, I'm only
						 joking. sure.)

-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"