HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Subject: Re: FINALLY! Ray is OUT!
Reply-To: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Telstar
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:51:07 GMT

In article <4235@ncrsoph.Sophia.NCR.COM> tdonnell@ncrsoph.Sophia.NCR.COM (Tom Donnelly) writes:
>In article <03wmwB1w165w@netlink.cts.com> jphaid@netlink.cts.com (J.P. Haid) writes:
>>Nelson Broat <NMBCU@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>>
>>> 
>>> He's gone! He's gone! He's really truly gone! Ray Handley has been
>>> axed as coach of the New York Giants!
>>> 
>>> YEEEEHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>> 
>>> Nelson - Thoroughly delirious at the moment.
>>
>>        And Dan Reeves needs a job in New York!
>>
>
>  I don't think Dan will be coming to New York.  He had more control over the
>  Broncos than Parcells was asking for over the Giants.  Young wouldn't give
>  that kind of power to Parcells, so why would he give it to Reeves.  I'm not
>  sure where Reeves will end up but he won't be coaching the Giants.
>


What team is likely to give Reeves - or any incoming coach - the kind of
power that Reeves reportedly wants? I would think that Reeves is realistic
about his chances of getting another combined head coach/general manager
job at another franchise.

Eventually, maybe, but almost certainly not in the first year.


Don Pajerek

Standard disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor)
Subject: Re: Next Year's Schedules (no dates)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 19:40:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.192605.8767@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes:
>	2 games against teams from the same conference who finished in
>		places that are 1 and 2 removed.  Specifically:
>			1st place plays a 2 and a 3
>			2nd place plays a 1 and a 4
>			3rd place plays a 1 and a 4
>			4th place plays a 2 and a 3
>		there's even a rule for which place from which division,
>		but I forget what it is.
This is the most puzzling part of the new schedule. Does the NFC East
#3 plays the #1 in NFC West or the NFC Central? 

That's a big difference in the new formula, because it's against either

   { SF, Chicago }   or   { Minn, LA Rams }
 
-- 
                                          Edward Lor
                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com
From: satish@a.chem.upenn.edu (Satish Nair)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Happy Happy Joy Joy
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:22:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


			POP!!!!

You know what that is???  It's the sound of a chmpagne bottle being opened.

And, what, pray tell, dictates such an occasion???

		RAY IS GONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Wahoo, yes yes yes!!

Adriene, Mike, Kevin, Tom, everybody join in !!!!!!!!!!

satish nair
ding dong the coach is gone!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: alaw@uucp (Alvin W. Law)
Subject: Re: Det/SF rehash, Niner prospects
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 03:50:57 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1993Jan3.034155.18071@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> C.Thomas.Eyford.III@dartmouth.edu (C. Thomas Eyford III) writes:
>In article <1992Dec29.210800.10793@pony.Ingres.COM>
>daveb@Ingres.COM (Dave Brower, DBMS hack, [510] 748-3418) writes:
>
>> The diff was number of possessions.  Did the defense rise in the
>> second half, or did the Lions lay down like sheep?  With the score
>> 10-3 at the half, and the ball-control the Lions were showing, it
>> looked like the Phoenix game in progress to me.  But Detroit came out
>> misfiring with the pass instead of the run, giving Montana the chances
>> to look good.  If He'd only had three possesions and Detroit had
>> scraped out one TD, it would have been 10-10 into OT, where SF would
>> have won.
>
>Did I watch a different game?  The one I saw had the Niners up 7-6 at
>halftime, whereupon Joe led the team to 2 TDs and a FG in the second
>half.

The Lions controlled the opening kickoff for a 16-play, 10 minute
drive that was resulted in the first Lion FG.  If the Lions had a
similar drive in the second half, the score would be a lot different.
Barry Sanders was dashing through the Niners secondary in the first
half but the Lions stayed with the passing game most of the second
half... Also, Joe's first few possessions were 1-2-3-punt drives.  The
2TD performance was not as spectacular as it sounded.  

-- 
 Alvin W. Law ........................................... Oracle Corporation
 Senior Applications Engineer ............... 300 Oracle Parkway, Box 659306
 Oracle Manufacturing ............................. Redwood Shores, CA 94065
 Email: alaw@oracle.com ....... Voice: 415.506.3390 ...... Fax: 415.506.7299
From: porche@tls-cs.cert.fr (Richard Porche)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Standings & Play-offs
Date: 22 Dec 92 14:31:04 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: CERT, CS Dpt. Toulouse, France


  Could someone email me or post to this group the standings for all conferences
and the known-today play-off games and the possible other ones. Here, in France
it's quite difficult for Football Fans to get results and standings.

  Thanks a lot,

  Richard.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: mb@cray.com (Maynard Brandt)
Subject: Re: Bad Boy Green Bay Bob
Organization: Cray Research Inc
Date: 28 Dec 92 15:03:55 CST

In article <19921228.091928.623@almaden.ibm.com> heavy-metal@vnet.ibm.com writes:
>
> I might as well also say that I've (along with some of the Packer players)
> have lost a little respect for Dennis Green and the Vikings. On the field,
> verbal abuse flew, especially after the Vikes had the game in the bag. Ooh,
> what men. Trying for a luck touchdown at the end just to burn us what a
> pretty cheap shot (I won't even mention the second quarter on side kick.)
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You just mentioned it.

As for the pass you referred to, Salisbury wasn't under severe pressure yet
he overthrew a 25 yard pass by a good 5 yards.  That makes me doubt that
Salisbury or Jake Reed (the intended receiver) had their hearts in that play.
Even if they did, so what?  The players on both sides are professionals and
are paid based on their performance.  Players contracts have incentive bonus
clauses for reaching certain milestones.  Why should the game score limit a
player's chance to reach some milestone?  Sean Salisbury and Jake Reed had
started fewer than 5 games each this year; I think their personal stats
could use a little padding.

As for losing respect and true cheap shots, (cheap shot artist) Chuck Cecil
chopped Reed at his knees (which could have ended Reed's career) long after
the pass was incomplete.  When Holmgren didn't pull Cecil off the field after
that play, what respect I had for Holmgren as a coach ended.

As for the verbal abuse, you would find no one more happy than me if the
taunting by the players would end.  I think about it does is end careers.
Based on the comments by Packer players leading up to the game (which I
think had alot to do with what was said on the field), I'm sure they (esp.
Terrell Buckley) would have displayed exemplary conduct if the score had
been reversed; you know, in the true Packer tradition shown by Tim Harris
among others in the past.

> I thought that the Vikings had more class than that. I hope that they do,
> but I don't know anymore.
>
-- 
Regards,

Maynard Brandt
Cray Research, Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: Miami Dolphins - AFC East Champs!!!!!
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 19:07:48 GMT


So, who's the best team in the AFC this season?  Four teams ended with
an 11-5 record, and two with 10-6.  Not one of them seems to stand out
and cry "pick me for the Super Bowl."


Pittsburgh: 4-0 against Houston, KC and SD.  Lost at Buffalo.  Lost at
Green Bay and got blown out by Chicago.  Too many question marks on
offense.  4-4 on the road, second worst among all playoff teams this
year.  Lucky for them, they got the HFA.

Miami:  Six of the 11 wins came on the last minute heroics of Marino
and Stoyanovich.  DNP against San Fran and New Orleans.  Struggled
against weak teams.

San Diego: How impressed are we supposed to be with a team that is 0-4
against playoff-bound opponents?  Whose only wins against a +.500 team
came against the Colts?

Buffalo: Looked like world-beaters against the Niners and the Saints,
then looked like egg-beaters in losses to the Jets, Colts and Raiders.
And now they're decimated by injuries.  When they're on they're the
best of this bunch, but they won't get a chance to prove it.

Houston: Which team will show up?  The efficient run & shoot machine
coupled with the dominating D?  Or the bumbling stumbling outfit that
ends up missing a 40 yard field goal at the end of every big game?

Kansas City:  Another Jekyll & Hyde team.  At home they crushed Philly
and the Skins.  On the road they lost to the Raiders and the Giants --
their 3-5 road record is worst among all playoff teams.


My predictions -- Chiefs and Oilers to win on the road next week,
setting up KC at Miami and Houston at Pittsburgh.  Did you know that
in playoff games, Miami is 2-0 lifetime against KC, and the Steelers
are 3-0 lifetime against the Oilers?  Won't mean much.  I take
the sentimental choice -- Warren Moon finally in the Super Bowl.


--Gidi
From: vh00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Vernon H Harmon)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Playoffs/the final answer/the Cowboys.
Date: 29 Dec 92 17:19:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.ofEFJGq00WDKMFlrRf
	<42921@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>
Organization: Senior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.football.pro: 30-Dec-92 Re: Playoffs/the
final answ.. hyderabadi@sdcc3.ucsd.ed (2625)

> Yeah.. SD needs to win a playoff game to get more respect. BTW, they did
> beat a > .500 team in Indianapolis (9-7), twice. Take away those two
> losses to SD, Indy is 9-5, having beaten Buff and Mia once.


thank you for pointing that out! I seem to keep forgetting Indy!! :D

--Vernon.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: chris@lightnin.Columbia.NCR.COM ()
Subject: Reed,Lofton,BB
Originator: chris@lightnin
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 15:42:41 GMT

    Another game goes by and 3 greats are MIA.  Is this because Kellys'
arm is still not up to par?  T.V. doesn't show downfield coverages so I'm
wondering if these guys are being shut out by the defense or shut out 
by Kelly.

   I think that each of these guys had one pass to them during the Saints
game--Reed getting some running action.  I'm worried about discontent on 
their part.  That could really hurt the Bills.  These guys are too good
to ignore game after game.

   Whats up????????????????????

   Are the offensive coordinators trying to give Thomas his ?4th? all
purpose yardage title???????????????

Chris
From: gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: It wasn't Pretty (49ers WON)
Date: 28 Dec 92 22:28:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Gizmonic Institute - Home of the "Big G Burger"

<1992Dec25.082049.23606@netcom.com> xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters) :
><1992Dec24.220626.10700@netcom.com> gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga) :
>>How many playoff victories does Young have?  
>
>At least one, possibly more.  He beat the Vikes back in '87, and there
>was a lot of "quarterback controversy" talk at the beginning of the '88
>season.  Though it died out completely by the time of Montana's absolute
>destruction of Denver in the SB that year.  :-)  

I don't remember the exact situation.  Did he just come in when Montana
was hurt or did he start the game?  Anyway, he'll need quite a few more to
catch White.

>But this is the first year that Young has started the season as 1st
>string.  So, it's a little early to expect him to have a whole heck of a
>lot of playoff victories.  :-)

Excuse me?  I could have sworn that was him starting the first game in
1991.

>>Although he missed 6 games last year (his first year starting)
>>they had a better win/loss percentage with Bono.  Now he's having a
>>great statistical year, but he's still got to compete with Montana's
>>shadow
>
>Last year Bono had a better record, but last year Young was not playing
>up to the standards that he had set in earlier years with the Niners. 

Oops.  Doesn't sound like he's very consistent.  Something that always set
QB's apart (in my own rating system) is their consistency.

>Before last year (which was *not* the first year he started games,
>merely the first year he was 1st string) he had compiled a *very*
>impressive record.  Like I say, there's been debates in the local media
>about whether Young or Montana should start as far back as '88. 

I don't follow you.  Above you said that this is the first year Young
started as 1st string.  Then you say that last year was the first year he
was 1st string.

>It's true that Young hasn't won any SB's (yet).  But I think that
>there's little doubt among any who've watched him since he came to SF
>that he is just as capable of leading the team to victory as Joe is.  He
>had a slump last year, but this year, he has merely returned to form.

Many QB's are capable of leading a team to victory.  Many have this year.
Right now, before the Monday game against the powerhouse Lions, Aikman has
led his team to just as many victories as Young.  Why wouldn't Aikman be
MVP in this case?


Gordon
-- 
The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: rickk@netmbx.netmbx.de (Rick Kuhlbars)
Subject: Oilers vs. Browns
Organization: netmbx, Berlin, Germany
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 13:16:03 GMT

Details appreciated, especially about the last three minutes.

and 

what's the wildcard outlook for the Oilers?

Thanx,
der ricker
-------------
GO OILERS!!! 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Holly Wise)
Subject: Re: It wasn't Pretty (49ers WON)
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 19:51:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.084054.4451@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:

>jg> JOHN

>jg> Yeah, I know, they were favored by 20.5 points. Hey, they won. 

>  If a team favored by ~3 TDs can just barely beat a turd 4-10 team, they 
>  don't deserve to be in the NFL.

So, do you mean that IF they win the superbowl, they still will not deserve 
to be in the NFL.   Any team can have an off day.  That's why there are 
UPSETS.  Gary, you sound like an anti-niner whiner!
-----
holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com
From: Michael.P.Colburn@dartmouth.edu (Michael P. Colburn)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Ray Handley signs four year deal !!!
Date: 29 Dec 92 22:39:00 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1hq72sINN6rp@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
skywalke@dino.qci.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu (Timothy B. Reynolds) writes:

> The Giants announced Ray haandley has signed a four year deal to 
> remain Head coach through the 96' season

Please tell me this some sick anti-woof type thingy...PULLEEEZE!!! 
It's so absurd that it's probably true....AAAAARRRGGH!!!

Mike Colburn                         =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Dartmouth-Hitchcock                  "Pulu-see-ba-goomba" -- Gilligan 
Medical Center                       =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lebanon, New Hampshire  03756        :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
Land of the Giants (Ray must stay!! *gack*)
Organization: Senior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 04:12:30 -0500 
From: Vernon H Harmon <vh00+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Playoff Coverage?

Tonight, during the MNF game, I saw that ABC will be covering
some of the playoff games. Does anybody know which ones?
Does this mean we get to look forward to more of the Monday
Night Morons? Which network covers the Super Bowl this
year?

--Vernon.
From: garyr@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Gary Rosen)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 09:02:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Cowboys '91 LB sacks (was Re: Aikman a weakness?!? (was Re: It wasn't Pretty (49ers WON)))
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro

>(Gary Strand) / 12:53 pm  Dec 24, 1992 /
>cw> Chris Waters
>gs> Gary Strand

>cw> Oh yeah, like this is the only whining that's ever gone on on the net. 

>  Is that what I said? That only 49ers fans whine? Give me a break! 

Sorry, Gary.  I guess I just missed all those posts where you complained
about other teams' fans whining.
>Last year
>  the Niner Whiners were deafening -

Gee, I though last year didn't count :^).

>cw> But to suggest that Niner fans are any more guilty of excessive whining
>    than any other fans of any other team that has an unexpected setback is
>    ridiculous.

>  Not ridiculous, but merely pointing out the facts. As I said, last year's
                                               ^^^^^
>  whining by Niner fans set an r.s.f.p. record, and it's pushed 49er fandom
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Do you have the stats to back this up?  By the way, how does the
official NFL woofing/whining rating system work?  Is it as complicated
as the QB rating system? :^)

Now it is *possible* that '9er fans set a single-season whining record
last year, though I won't concede the point without a good deal more
statistical analysis.  My Cray is at the ready.  However, they are
clearly far behind Irving, I mean Dallas, fans for the all-time greatest
length of whining and moaning.  Last year, some Dallas fans were *still*
crying about Dwight Clark's catch, ten years after the fact! :^) :^)

- Gary Rosen
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: pbf@heinlein.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Phil Franklin)
Subject: Re: Brister Sacks the Steelers!
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 13:29:59 GMT

In article <1h5hv3INNea5@uwm.edu>, dsj@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel Scott Janecek) writes:
|> From article <1992Dec21.140254.27750@walter.bellcore.com>, by pbf@inoms.bellcore.com (Phil Franklin):
|> 
|> > The game with the Vikings was an intense defensive struggle, where the
|> > Vikes' overall better offensive performance was balanced by their
|> > mistakes -- three fumbles and a muffed snap on a short field goal.
|> > Pittsburgh had some reasonable drives, but couldn't generate any
|> > offense inside the Vikings 30-yard line.  And what chances they had,
|> > Brister chose to squander.
|> > 
|> 
|> 	Not to start any flames here (but Im not sorry if I do:), BUT,
|> a while ago, several Pittsburg fans were arguing with several
|> Minnesota fans on which defense (and team) was better. Not only does
|> this game prove it (Minn. SHOULD have BLOWN the away)...
	[line muncher]
|> LOOK at Minnesota, do not complain that
|> Pittsburg 'SHOULD' have won! Maybe his 'squanders' were good defense
|> on the part of Minnesota perhaps? Nah, too easy...
	[line muncher]

Dan, I give full credit to Minnesota's offense and defense.  Any team
that can't win when it gives up only six points is in sorry shape
indeed.  But you seem to have missed my point.  No matter how good
Minnesota's defense was, Brister had plenty of time to get rid of the
ball and avoid the sack in those crucial situations when Pittsburgh
was in field goal range.  By choosing not to, he snatched defeat from
the jaws of victory.  

Steeler fans can only hope O'Donnell will be back for the playoffs --
it's *his* team that won the division for the first time since 1984.

- Phil
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith)
Subject: Re: point differential (Re: 49ers/Cowboys :QB problems? Thoughts?)
Organization: University of Michigan
	<1992Dec31.021741.21014@cbnewsk.cb.att.com>
	<1992Dec31.063611.58709@uvmark.uucp>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:56:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.063611.58709@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:

   In article <1992Dec31.021741.21014@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
   >In article <1992Dec31.013010.6631@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
   >>Now where it really gets interesting:
   >>
   >>San Francisco:	195 PF-PA
   >>Dallas:	166
   >>New Orleans:	128
   >>Minnesota:	125
   >>
   >>This, to me, is probably the most useful single stat before one gets
   >>into the headache of correcting for schedule difficulty.  What it shows
   >>is that the Niners more dominate their opponents as a complete team than
   >>anyone else, and by a wide margin at that.  Dallas is a distant second,
   >>with NO and Minn. even more-distant thirds.  The AFC teams are mostly
   >>also-rans in this.
   >>
   >>What's really interesting is that it at first glance appears to have a
   >>remarkably high correlation coefficient with winning percentage.  
   >
   >PF-PA always has a high correlation with winning. In baseball, 
   >there is the well-known Pythorean (sp?) estimate. Take the runs for
   >minus runs against, do some calculations, and you can figure out the 
   >winning percentage of the team (within 4-5 Ws).
   >
   >The correlation also works for basketball and hockey, although not
   >as formal as baseball, probably because baseball has a larger sample
   >space in games played.

   Well, when you think about it, it makes perfect sense.  When you win
   14 of 16 games, it means, quite simply, that you have scored more points
   than your opponents.  It is a circular correlation.  Because you score more
   points than your opponent you win more, which increases your point differential
   which in turn points to more wins...  

   In hockey, I think the number of points scored is too low to get as good a
   correlation, while in basketball the spreads are too great (points scored too
   high).  Baseball is a better indicator...


While I agree completely, I've tried to hold back this year from discussing
this topic.  Lions fans want the Packers to get over confident.

Bill
--
-------------------------------
	Bill Mangione-Smith
	billms@eecs.umich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jch@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (jeffrey.c.halle)
Subject: Re: Boston Redskins
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:04:44 GMT

From article <DMERCER.92Dec28154622@ap1pyr.oracle.com>, by dmercer@oracle.com (David Mercer):
> This would probably have been back in the days when the Pats played in
> Fenway (yes, Fenway).  Red Sox and Patriots were considered
> complimentary (AL & AFC), and there was a third Boston team, the
> Braves (NL, now in Atlanta).  When Boston acquired another football
> team (NFC), they named it the Redskins (now in Washington) to
> compliment the Braves.

Interesting calendar you have there, Dave.  What happens next year, Ameche
scores a touchdown in overtime?

The Patriots were formed in 1960.  The (baseball) Braves were long gone
by then, having moved to Milwaukee in 1953 (or 54).  The Boston Redskins
date back to the thirties, and were in Washington by at least the early
fifties, possibly even earlier.

Oh, and the Boston Patriots were not AF*C*, they were AF*L*, until the two
leagues merged after the 1970 Super Bowl.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro