From: botelle@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Hell Peacock
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:04:20 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1ba8e7INNpch@agate.berkeley.edu) sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:
)In article <92509@netnews.upenn.edu) botelle@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle) writes:
))In article <1b8k9iINNkan@agate.berkeley.edu) sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:
)))No, I have to play over a 56kbaud line from work, and cross-continent
)))lag doesn't help my game any.  In any case, I think you'll find that
)))"the big boys" are not all CMU students.  More arrogance.
))
))No, but not all the players on bronco are CMUers.  Not even close.  I can't
))imagine bronco being much worse than discovery, and I imagine Golden Bears
))would rather play at bronco than calvin (except that they'd have to play
))CMU theen).  Face it, you're just scared.
)
)You're just spoiled.  It's easy to claim that I'm scared because I
)don't want to deal with cross-continent lag because *you* *don't*
)*have* *to*.  The only servers which you consider "clueful" are on the
)east coast.

It's netrek geography.  Discovery had a good chance of being "the" netrek
server.  Then, george happened upon bronco, and that chance is gone.  

I really hate the implication that I am somehow "discriminating" against 
West Coast "  ".  The fact is, bronco has a good reputation, and is the
home server for CMU, where alot (read: not all) of the clue comes from.
This may change, but as it stands, bronco is the fast lane.  This is
not an indictment against West Coast "  ", merely a factual observation.

If I want to play netrek, I log onto bronco (or, rather, the Q).  I then
log onto discovery (again, a Q).  I then check metaserver for the best
open game.  

I like bigdog alot, and used to play there quite a bit last semester.  I
had a pretty good connection there, and liked the three race galaxy and
transwarp.  But whenever I check metaserver, it is always empty.

))Arrogance?  It must be the "CMU arrogance" in me.  But wait, I'm 6 hours away
))from Pittsburgh.  Go figure.
))
)))Which is not to say that the game on the above servers couldn't use
)))some clue -- why don't more people from berkeley play on bigdog, for
)))instance.
))
))Maybe because they all play at bronco?  But, then, you wouldn't know.
)
)You're right.  I have no idea what any east coast server is like, even
)though I used to play on bronco and rwd4 (until I got sick of the
)lag).

I really don't know why the lag is so bad for you.  Maybe it's just the
time you play.  I have had several times on bezier and bigdog where I
could not play, but I usually enjoy a smooth connection.

)When I play after work, I'd rather play at a nearby server with no wait
)queue, if it's OK with you.  Not that I expect anything but flames.

I really don't care where you play.  You were the one who said that "we"
should tremble in fear.  I really don't think you're a significant enough
player that I should be concerned where you play.  I mean, if you were
better, I would like to play against you, for the challenge.  But now, I
only want to play against you so I can kick your ass.

))))How earthy.  Heritage.  Netrek?  Something that has been around less than
))))a decade can not have heritage.  What's next:  antiques?
))
))didn't touch this one, eh?
)
)Sorry.  Denying that the development of game features at sequent (like
)the cloak delay, or the defense requirement) has a context just struck
)me as enormously ignorant.  I wasn't talking about netrek folk songs.

No, there is a context.  I never said there wasn't.  However, I don't think
it's significant enough to wax poetic with smugness.  Btw, the word ignorant
should be stupid, as it implies a flaw in reasoning, something which you
should be well familiar with.

)))Ogging is easy.  It's the first thing I learned how to do...only, back
)))then, we called it "suicide".  Killing the other guy and *living* is
)))an accomplishment -- ogging is a last resort.
))
))Ogging clueful people is NOT easy.  Then again, you wouldn't know, given
))your server preferences.
)
)Ogging clueful people is trickier, but suiciding on them, in a
)dogfight if not in a cloak-attack, is relatively easy.  Even if they

Clueful people will not dogfight in a competitive game.  Ogging clueful people
who have kills with intent to carry, or are in fact carrying is not easy.

I can not be ogged while carrying.  I can be stopped on the way to the planet.
I can be killed while picking up to prevent an enemy core planet from popping,
or while ghostbusted, but I can not recollect a successful ogg on me by less
than three enemies within the last six months.

If you are being ogged, simply run away from the ogger.  He will have to
uncloak (or run out of fuel).  Phaser lock him and kill him.  (When you
run, try to run perpendicular to the wall).  After a while, you can ususally
keep oggers away from your tactical until you make a move for a planet
n(at which time, they become defenders).

)run away, you've neutralized them until they can get you off their
)tail.  So, it becomes a question of teamwork.  But I maintain that
)ogging (perhaps I should say "killing someone when you don't care
)whether you live or not") is easy, as long as you are (a) willing
)to harass them for a while, and (b) a reasonably good dogfighter.

Stupid.  Clueless.  Appropriate only for 1-1 games or against people
without clue.

)))))standard server.  Can somebody help me get my tongue out of my cheek?
))))
))))No, we need to get the foot out first.
))
)))[sigh].
))
))Taking the high road, Scott.  Your past posts provide us a glimpse into your
))maturity level.  (pre-emptive strike:  anyone who plays a video game and
))writes to a newsgroup about it ought seriously consider their own maturity
))level before touching this one).
)
)I'm trying not to turn this into a flame war.  It's just that I find
)the notion that dogfighting is less important than ogging, when I
)consider dogfighting the sine qua non skill in netrek, to be absurd.
)If you can dogfight and survive, then you can get kills and take
)planets, or you can decide to mutual on an enemy and kill him/her, or
)you can defend a planet against attackers, etc.  If you can't
)dogfight, you're meat.

Wrong.

)By the way, I find your comment about maturity interesting,
)considering how personal you're taking this, and how ad hominem your
)attacks have become.

I am not taking this personally (learn to use adverbs, scott), and my post
was not an attack on you.  It was a simple refutation of all your points.
Becauser your position is untenable, it appears as if I am personally "
attacking" you.

)Out of curiosity, is there anyone out there who thinks I have a point?

Let them come forward and identify themselves (as clueless).

)So far, all I've seen is disagreement, and I find this discouraging.

Time for a little introspection.

)Scott

Justin