From: news@pitt.edu (USENET News System)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Alien^3: religious and pre-modern
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:31:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: blue.5536
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <espen.aarseth-060992153400@hdbea.hf-fak.uib.no> espen.aarseth@hf.uib.no (Espen Aarseth) writes:
>In article <5522@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea
>Wasp) wrote:
>> In article <espen.aarseth-050992130518@hdbea.hf-fak.uib.no> espen.aarseth@hf.uib.no (Espen Aarseth) writes:
>> >Alien^3 is in many ways a much more focused and *meaningful*
>> >film than Aliens.

>> 	A lovely line -- unfortunately, one which is in itself virtually
>> MEANINGLESS, since "meaningful", in critic terms, is a throwaway term used
>> with great weight but never defined save by the critic using it.

>Of course it appears meaningless IN ITSELF, cut out of context by you.
>In my article however, it was not by itself, but elaborated and backed
>up by what followed. I am not very impressed by this style of argument.

	I didn't cut out the context -- it followed afterwards. And 
I stand by my statement that the term "meaningful" is actually meaningLESS,
at least within the context of literary criticism, since those who use
it appear to be able to find "meaning" of any definition THEY may have,
in anything THEY may like.

>> 	"Andy"? That's the first time *I* have ever seen that abbreviation
>> for "android" ("I prefer the term artificial person, myself").

>Let's not make a virtue of ignorance. It's a classic term; look it up
>in _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?_ (1968) by Philip Dick.

	Okay, I yield the point. Having read a couple Dick collections,
and not particularly liked him, I have not made it a point to read
everything he ever wrote.

>> 	And I fail to see "gothic romance" in the android bringing down
>> the ship. Suspense, yes, but "GOTHIC ROMANCE"?

>I'll try to explain. Many of the ideas and mythical imagery of the Alien-
>movies come from the gothic tradition of the 18-19th centuries. Gloomy
>scenery; monsters; dark, forbidden skies; thunder and lightning; that
>sort of thing. In the particular scene I mentioned, it was not so much
>the action of bringing down the ship as the mood of the whole setting
>that reminded me of the gothic movement.
	
	Then not so much romance, but Gothic ATMOSPHERE is what you meant.
While the entire genre might be able to be classed as Gothic Romances,
when you say "the Gothic romance of the andy ..." you imply something
romantic about that particular act.

>Gothic romance is a name for the tradition which includes Mary Shelley's
>_Frankenstein_, Bram Stoker's _Dracula_ and many others. This tradition is
>generally recognized as an important foundation for what we call science
>fiction (and remember, "romance" is not the same as "love story". Look
>it up in any basic textbook on literary history). 

	Okay, but then bear in mind that since words change over the
years, you are stuck with having the modern interpretation come through
whenever you use the term. "Awful", in today's world, means bad or
horrid, but as any analysis of the term can reveal, it originally came
from "awe-ful", i.e., awe-inspiring. However, while that would be a
proper use of Awful (or Aweful), if I said something was an awful movie
with awful acting, I'd rather expect most people to assume I didn't
like it.

>Indeed, Alien seems particularly inspired by the Draculean myth, what with
>the monster that pseudo-sexually impregnates its victims (instead of just
>chomping them to death) and is devilishly hard to kill. (And even in
>Aliens,
>there are other similarities, such as the motive of the isolated village
>haunted by Evil.)

	One of my main objections to this kind of thing is that it appears
to me that people go WAY too far in order to find these kind of
interpretations. Only a rather rabid Freudian would find much sexual about
the Alien. Dracula is a bit more understandable, since he's kissing you
to death and at least acts and appears male and human, but the Alien shares
none of these traits. If, of course, you really believe that any long,
rigid object is penis imagery and any hole is vaginal imagery, fine, but
I think that's ridiculous. As Sigmund himself said, "Sometimes a cigar
is just a cigar."


					Sea Wasp
						  /^\
						  ;;;
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