From: kish@charon.rutgers.edu (Kish)
Subject: what bodhisattvas do (re Raj's re to pat)
Organization: ----
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 18:16:36 GMT

+ Pat: since nonduality is nonexistence,
+
+ Raj: duality is not nonexistence [as many have criticized Buddhism
+ 	as nihilism.] On the contrary, non-duality includes all: the 
+ 	existence, non-existence, and what is beyond existence and 
+ 	non-existence.
+
I would agree with Raj on this one.  Non-existence is generally equated
with nihilism, which is an extreme view, not in accordance with things
as they are (nonduality).  See Jeffrey Hopkins's "Meditation on Emptiness"
for a clear explanation of the Gelugpa view of the Madhyamika-Prasangika
view on this and related matters
						
+ Pat: doesn't a Bodhisatva indeed renounce nonduality?
+ 
+ Raj: Don't know what Bodhisatvas [really] do.  Bodhisatvas [it is believed] 
+	are free of all concepts, [including renunciation and non-renunciation,
+	existence and non-existence, and, indeed, duality and non-duality]. 
+	Bodhisatvas are "tathagatas."
+
The short answer is yes and no. A slightly longer answer: Bodhisattvas give 
up their own enlightenment and work solely for the enlightenment of others.  
They begin by taking the Bodhisattva vows and by developing bodhicitta. You 
could think of bodhicitta, in the beginning stages, as a feeling that you can 
actually learn how to be of benefit to others, that to be of benefit to others 
is the best thing you could do with your precious human birth, and that your 
own problems aren't such a big deal.  So, feeling this way, and with the help 
samatha/vipassna meditation along with other methods for generating 
bodhicitta, the newborn bodhisattva goes out and lives in the world trying to 
alleviate the pain and suffering of others.  Of course pain and suffering are, 
in this context, informed by the Buddha's teaching.  As this path continues, 
the bodhisattva more and more can practice the six paramitas, the six 
perfections, until they become instinctual (six paramitas: generosity, 
discipline, patience, exertion, prajna, and samadhi).  Eventually, the 
bodhisattva - having given up his own enlightment, having giving up any 
concept of me/my/mine which can attain enlightenment - becomes a Buddha. So,
like I said, the short answer is yes and no.
	Bodhisattvas also have practices associated with them, depending on
the tradition, and they become strangely indistinguishable from deities,
although with the usual Buddhist difference (they are dependent arisings).
Sometimes it seems bodhisattvas approach enlightenment from the side
of delusion and deliberately "stop short", and other times it seems
more like the last oxherding picture where Buddha comes back into the
market place instead of staying in nirvana.  I'm not sure it really
makes a difference ! 
	So, as you can see, bodhisattvas are never bored (except perhaps
when sitting :).  And whether from the pure land or in any of the realms,
bodhisattvas work tirelessy and for the benefit of all beings. 

This is just one very informal take on a very big question.

-Bill

ps. Some relevant works:

	A Guide to a Bodhisattva's way of Life (Bodhisattvacharyavatara)
	Shantideva (translated by Stephen Batchelor)
	Library of Tibetan Works and Archives, Dharmasala

	Meaningful to Behold (Commentary on the Bodhisattvacharyavatara)
	Kelsang Gyatso
	Tharpa Publications, London
	ISBN 0 948006 00 5

	The Jewel Ornament of Liberation
	Gampopa (translated by Herbert Guenther)
	Shambhala
	ISBN 0 8773 378 3

	Compassion in Tibetan Buddhism
	Jeffrey Hopkins
	Snow Lion
	ISBN 0 937938 04 1

	Meditation on Emptiness
	Jeffrey Hopkins
	Wisdom Publications, London
	ISBN 0 86171 014 2

	The Gods of Northern Buddhism
	Alice Getty
	Dover
	ISBN 0 486 25575 1
	
	Indo-Tibetan Buddhism (2 volumes)
	David Snellgrove
	Shambhala
	ISBN v1. 0 87773 311 2, v2. 0 87773 379 1
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