HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii)
Subject: Re: Naval Aviator Thorne
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:27:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.171502.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> remcke01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (Richard McKewen) writes:
>In article <jhansen.712077840@convex.convex.com>, jhansen@convex.com (James Hansen) writes:
>> I heard last night that the naval review board voted 3-0 to dismiss
>> Mr. Thorne with an honorable discharge.  
>                     ^^^^^^^^^
>
>If this is true, it is something to note.  Usually a "convicted" homo-
>sexual in the military is given an "administrative" discharge.  You 
>know, the same thing that Klinger was going for with his Section 8
>
>quest.



When I was discharged from the Navy, way back in June of '80, I was given an
honorable discharge.  FOr what reason, I don't know.  But I wasn't in a
position to argue so I just shut my mouth and took what I got.  

They offered me the opportunity to go thru a formal court martial and present
any evidence, or take an honorable discharge and just get out.  After being
in for two years and getting tired of the service, I took the honorable and
kept my mouth shut.

Peter Thomas


-- 
"I'll lose my beard when they shave it from my cold, dead face!"

Quote from the Razor's Anonymous Handbook
From: kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Disco Diva cum Proto-cub... :-)
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:38:46 GMT
Reply-To: kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Jul29.061516.6141@menudo.uh.edu> elee74l@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.035129.25321@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>>>Anyway, I *finally* *found* a code that works for me! I mean, my bear
>>>[...]

>
>OK, I know what a Bear Code is.  Mine is B0 f-cdv g+(+) k+(+) s+ e+v.
>But what in the world is "Smurf Code"????
>[...]

OK, I know what the Smurf Codes are, but I have never seen the Bear Codes
posted.  They are mentioned in the faq but not documented.  "man bear" 
did not return any results either...

PAH-LEEESE somebody email or post them.

-- 
        John Kominetz, III           __
  Commodore Apps and Tech Support    \/      4th kyu Aikido Ki No Kawa
   kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com           "I speak for myself, not C=."
 ========================================================================
  "When you strike a flowing river, no trace remains in the water."
                                                              --O Sensei
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fidonet <=> Internet
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:34:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton

tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett) wrote: 
->The Fidonet is an amateur computer network (one of many) which
->has similar newsgroups (echos) and email (netmail) as the
->Internet.  The Internet routers know how to route email to
->Fidonet addresses if the Fidonet address is munged with a
->little. 

know, however, that e-mail gateways from the internet <-> fidonet
aren't always reliable (mostly due to lossage on the part of some fido
sysops) and that this is probably not a good idea for *lots* of
internet e-mail.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elliott@a8.ima.umn.edu (Frank Elliott)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Organization: ima
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:36:23 GMT

In article <RJBODKIN.92Jul30122118@maimonides.lcs.mit.edu> rjbodkin@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Ronald Bodkin) writes:
>In article <1992Jul25.230012.3845@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>   BZZZZZT!  Wrong.
>
>   Non-SWMs are indoctrinated to understand the SWM experience from birth;...
>
>	How nice, to reduce the complexity of individual life
>experiences by a combination of sexual, racial and gender categories
>("THE SWM experience").  Not too long ago, this might be taken to be
>discriminatory: propagating stereotypes.  Perhaps consistency is a
>virtue that those who work for one cause "every minute of the day"
>must abandon?
>
>		Ron

Actually the SWM Experience with which everyone is indoctrinated
is a fabrication.  Its meant to illustrate the SWM virtues and the non-SWM
vices.  It's propaganda rather than a stereotype invented by minorities against
SWM's.  It's used to keep SWM's and non-SWM's in line.

It's what allows some straights to accuse same sex couple of flaunting
their sexuality if they hold hands in public, while other straights
are free to have perfectly gaudy weddings on Christopher Street every
Saturday.  (Of course same-sex marriages aren't even legally recognized;
nor are they given much public support.)

It also suggests that gays should assume that straights are hostile until
proven otherwise.

Perhaps consistency is just as much a casualty of those who maintain the _status
quo_.

-- Frank
From: archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:00:29 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.151841.12557@amhux2.amherst.edu> twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>In article <1992Jul26.183822.6063@cs.mun.ca> brian@odie.cs.mun.ca (Brian Paquet) writes:

>>In article <1992Jul25.224611.3640@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>>
>>>I am Jewish, an atheist and a leftist.  When my Judaism is not
>>>known, I do indeed have an automatic "in" into the power elite.  I benefit
>>>from its privilege daily.

I thought jews believed in a god.  Am I incorrect?  How can you be a jew and 
an athiest?

>>
>>You are? Gee I'm a white het male and I can fake the leftist part.
>>I have a degree in economics, could you swing a good summer job for me
>>[too late for this summer] for that matter a good part time job during
>>the semester would be nice, Sure just call yoour connections [being a 
>>member of the elite..
>>Luh I hate to bust peoples buble, but white het males don't go around
>>organizing meeting on how to keepo  others down

>What school do you go to?  Who were your parents?  Are you a member of
>the Elks, Lions, Masons?  Depending on the answers to these questions,
>the question of "could you swing a good job for me" might be
>answerable.

>Whether or not conspiracy is endemic to being a straight white male,
>it's amazing to see how common it is for straight white men to
>organize networks to keep others down.

At worst, they organize to pull each other up.  There IS no white het male 
conspiracy, no matter how many people care to blame their personal failures 
on it.
-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Wells Fargo/Bank Of America dissapointment
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 23:44:07 GMT

hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu) writes:

>By the way, I called Levi-Strauss yesterday. I mentioned the Wells Fargo
>/BA problems with bigots. The spokesperson said that Levi-Strauss does
>not plan to change its policy of withdrawing funding from the Boy Scouts.
Well, Levis has a much stronger "commitment to diversity" then BofA or WF
in that they are also offering Domestic Partnership benefits to their
employees.


-- 
vox:(518)-276-8919 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``No exam-cheating, pot-smoking, draft-dodging, privileged youth Vice-President
in a "Bush The Blamer" administration can speak with moral authority about
abandoned moral values and assuming personal responsibility.''--Jesse Jackson
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:03:38 GMT


In article <1992Jul23.170026.13716@ncar.ucar.edu>, gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:

|> jd> Do you understand why I am afraid of them?
|> 
|>   To an extent. BTW, how do you know that they're hets? If hets can't tell
|>   who is and who isn't gay, how can gays tell who is and who isn't het? 

So if a group of people who can't understand how anyone could be
different than them can't tell when some people actually *are* 
different from them, it should be assumed that the people who are
different should not be able to see the difference either?

And straight males can't understand the experience of being discriminated
against for not being straight so people who *are* discriminated against
shouldn't actually be able to feel the discrimination. 

I see your reasoning now.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
From: berninge@peptide.ecn.purdue.edu (James A Berninger)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,purdue.les-gay-bi.info
Subject: Wells Fargo/Bank Of America dissapointment
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:12:49 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


Took advantage of a few minutes to call WF and BofA to add my vote
to uphold their previous decision to withhold funds from the Boy
Scouts.  The response I got was most disappointing.

Wells Fargo's 800 number did not have an applicable touch-tone menu
selection for such a call, so I spoke to one the real live
operators.  She would not take my call and referred me to the Public
Relations department -- a long distance call.  The operator at the
PR department only asked one question -- am I a customer of Wells
Fargo?  Being the poor, lowly grad student that I am, the answer was
of course "no".  She made note of that, as well as my support -- the
latter of which has almost certainly gone by the wayside.  After
all, this is a capitalist regime, and the bank will do whatever they
can to keep their influx of cash.  :-(
	The PR department's number is (415) 396-3606

Bank of America had a real live operator answer the 800 number, but
they wouldn't take my call, either.  I was told expressly that they
would only receive comments by mail.  The address is:
	Bank of America
	Box 16290
	Phoenix, AZ  85011-9974

Jim Berninger                   ______ "This is no 'Whoops!'  This is
B0 w- c- g k s- e r- p          \    /  an 'Aaaaaaaauuuuuggggghhhh!'"
berninge@cn.ecn.purdue.edu       \  /   - Harvey ("Arnold") Fierstein
Green Lantern Fan, Extraordinaire \/      "Torch Song Trilogy"
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Portland reflections (short form)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:10:16 GMT

In article <40754@ogicse.ogi.edu>, markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
> In article <1992Jul30.230520.23563@osf.org> coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
> >
> >Also, nobody knows how to have *fun* like a bunch of queers. 
> 
> Almost the exact quote I got from a couple of Powell's employees tuesday night.
> I think that as much as everyone appreciated Powell's, Powell's appreciated
> everyone from the con.  Word is that the Gay and Lesbian Studies section
> hasn't been that busy in years!

Well, the only other place I've ever seen so many G/L books at once is
Glad Day. 
> 
> >Thanks to all the locals who made it possible (Alan & Mark,
> >organizers; Nelson, who keeps insisting that he didn't do anything;
> 
> Except, of course, be Nelson, which is quite sufficient in its own right.

Well, of course. I automatically assumed that this went without
saying, but it should have been said. I was being misguidedly
discreet. :-)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: ehugs and asar
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:19:53 GMT

In article <28JUL92.17245955@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>I didn't say the original quote was constrictive, or that I in any way
>agreed with it.  I'm just tired of your repetitive remarks that asar is
>only good for e-hugs, and your current statement such as this would be welcome
>there.  You know just as well as I that that is not true.

Oh, I wouldn't have said it (that the remark on Catholics would be welcome
on asar), if I didn't believe it.  I might be wrong, but if I am, I think
it's only because some people feel OK with taking issue with such a comment,
and such a reaction has only recently received support there.

>I think the note has been a part of your posts.  On this I think we will
>disagree.  I think that while you have made some constructive comments,
>you have included some negative ones in mosts of your postings there.

I was really careful not to be negative in the "Karla" thread.
Those were my only articles to asar since my comments on MF's
posting his parents' address and phone number to the net.  I
still think that his actions were wildly beyond the pale, but
I also learned the limits to how you can react to that.

>>I'll bring my autographed copy of "I'm Dysfunctional, You're
>>Dysfunctional". :-)
>You never showed it to me. I wonder if that was "abuse."  :-)

More like good taste.  There was no need for me to be potentially fractious
when it wasn't clear in advance how it might be received.

The book is a polemic, and it's stretched a bit thin to qualify as a book.
The SF Chronicle (Examiner??) Sunday magazine presented it as an article,
which was just about the right length to make its point once.

>Unfortunately our paths didn't cross too often there.  I would have liked to
>have talked to you, and many other people, more.  The five days was much too
>short.  The question most asked of me during the con:  "So, have you met Steve
>Dyer yet?"  The answer is unfortunately both yes and no.

Three days for me.  The con was as usual much too short, and episodic
(perhaps because we were staying with a friend in Portland, and not at
the Inn.)  If you missed an event or didn't mingle enough, it might have
been your only chance to spend some time with someone.  But that's part
of the nature of a con, too.

On the other hand, I saw more of you at Rooster Rock than I expected
(and vice-versa) :-)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Results from the Con Part I
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:12:01 GMT

elle@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>The answers/decisions from the meeting of the motss.cabal held at the .con.

>1G.  Chicago.

	Actually it would be 20...  I was counting in hex.

>   "Is anyone here 60 inches?  We could measure."  --Robert Coren, I think


	"It doesn't matter if they're dead." ---Howard Solomon

OK --- let's start up the commemorative motss.con quote file...

BBC

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Subject: Re: B-word: False Analogy to "Good/Bad Jews"
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyle, Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 05:53:57 GMT

Jess Anderson (anderson@macc.wisc.edu) wrote:
 
> Thanks go to Arnold Zwicky for a good posting on the
> linguistic aspects (ambiguity in the way evaluative
> adjectives work).
> 
> But no one has yet mentioned a specific, and I think
> important, historical issue related to anti-Semitism and the
> phrase "good Jew, bad Jew." For one thing, these phrases
> must always be used in quotes (sneer quotes, if you like),
> because apart from sectarian religious dialog *within* the
> Jewish community, they *always* indicate anti-Semitism, that
> is, anti-Jewish sentiment.
> 
> The most common "good/bad Jew" argument arises from the
> bigoted attitude that Jews who do what non-Jews want them to
> do (99% of the time they mean some form of "stay in your
> place and don't make trouble for us") are "good," and those
> who don't are "bad." 
> [...]
> I think all of this is rather different from the "breeder"
> as homophobe (or not) discussion preceding.

Entirely different, for all the reasons you give.

Frustratingly familiar, for all the reasons you give:
consider "good fag" vs. "bad fag", aka, Drag Queens
and Hairy Butch Men in Totally Revealing Leather.

--jns
From: dfpedro@nv2.uswnvg.com (Donn F. Pedro)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gaynet, Mailing Lists, etc. (Was: Re: Phobe Alert: America)
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:20:07 GMT
Reply-To: dfpedro@uswnvg.com.UUCP (Donn F. Pedro)
Organization: I don't speak for them anyway.

In article <92204.165140IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>i'm shocked that someone would actually suggest getting onto sappho
>under false pretenses.  FJ, i'm ashamed of you...

The word surprised comes to my mind.  I couldn't concieve of doing
such a thing.  How can we talk of respecting space and have someone
actually suggest doing this.  I have often thought that reading sappho
would give me some insights, but I am not welcome there, and I don't 
take that personal.




     Donn Pedro ....................................dfpedro@uswnvg.com

		     There are no ordinary moments.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: remcke01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (Richard McKewen)
Subject: Re: ST:TNG Quote
Organization: University of Louisville
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:39:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.000945.22495@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>, rkoch@lonestar.utsa.edu (Ruth M. Koch) writes:
> 
> From "The Outcast":
> 

Nice tirade, but I prefer Shylock's "prick me, do I not bleed?" monologue
from _Merchant_of_Venice_.

But then again, what's the point of comparing Shakespeare to tv? 

------------------------------------->
Richard McKewen                                                   
University of Louisville                      
Internet:  remcke01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu  
Bitnet:    remcke01@ulkyvx                         CECI N'EST PAS UNE PIPE
                                     <------------------------------------
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Portland reflections (short form)
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:40:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Jul30.234037.8218
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Jul30.230520.23563@osf.org> coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>I've written a long account with a fair amount of narration, but I
>realize that not everyone will have the time/patience to read it, and
>that it doesn't really capture the essence, being mostly narration.

I do hope you post the long form.

>The emotional energy generated by 30-60 motssers is incredible. I
>can't think of any other kind of event I've ever been involved with
>that has such a sense of intimacy with so many people.

Yes, indeed. I've already said my piece on this, so I won't repeat
myself, but it was great. 

I wish I understood *why* the motss.con was particularly affectionate.
I've been in large groups of queers before, but it was never as
intimate as we were. Maybe it was because we were together for 4 days?

>Thanks to all the locals who made it possible (Alan & Mark,
>organizers; Nelson, who keeps insisting that he didn't do anything;
>Chris M., compiler of packets; others too numerous to mention); and
>thanks to all who were there, for making it great.

Well, I don't insist that I did nothing to insure that people in
Portland enjoyed themselves, dear. I did none of the con organization,
though.

Thank you Alan, Mark, Chris, BBC, Fred, and everyone else that did the
work to make the con happen. It was splendid.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                  Where do you conceal the gun in a bikini?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: Argggg (Job market)
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:30:47 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.193627.3330@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) wrote: 
>->After sending out dozens of Resumes to head hunters all I've had are
>->a few offers for sysadmin work in some inaccessable location.
>
>after seeing your postings in job-hunting-related newsgroups i'm
>surprised you get any offers at all.

Let me get this right, a head hunter is going to get 30% or more of
my earnings and yet I don't have the right to question there refusal
to accept responses via e-mail?
Money is important but personal integrity is more important, if you
allow money to influence you to the point where your opinion is always
up for sale then you have lost more than a job. If money was the sole
driving force in my life the triangle in my .sig file would be the
first thing to go, I've already lost a job to homophobia.

-- 
>>Unix/C Contract worker available 5 years C/unix work experience<<  ______
Available for Telecommuting/Travel and contracts on the T Line       \    /
in the Boston MA area. Send me e-mail for a copy of my Resume.        \  /
       -- VWIS 508-793-9568 (2400 baud), Linux support BBS.--          \/
From: tdober@llnl.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the b-word
Date: 21 Jul 92 03:03:55 GMT
            <TWPIERCE.92Jul17025228@garlic.cs.amherst.edu>
            <1992Jul17.115942.15658@macc.wisc.edu>
            <1992Jul19.213309.16010@amhux2.amherst.edu>
            <1992Jul20.041601.18280@macc.wisc.edu>
Organization: LLNL

In article <1992Jul20.041601.18280@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess
Anderson) writes:

[stuff deleted]

> If the term really applies *only* to hostiles, are any of
> *those* people included in your highest personal esteem?  If
> not, then I think your point is deflated.  And if so, then
> why are you holding crud in high esteem?

Jess, it sounds to me like you're saying the term "breeder" has only
one meaning: the meaning you intend it to have. You say, "If the term
really applies *only* to hostiles...". My question is, do the non-
hostiles know that? Since they haven't been privy to this whole
discussion, I suspect that the answer is "No". *You* may intend it to
apply only to hostiles, but each person who hears you applies their
own set of perceptual filters to every word you say. You can control
what you say; you cannot control what they hear.

[more stuff deleted]

> The intelligent ones fall into two camps: either they're
> already in or on the periphery of the cohort, or they can be
> shown where their prejudices lie, what they arise from, and
> what to do about them, that is, consciousness-raising.  This
> latter group might also get a little splattered by the term,
> but it's our anger that provides the key to raising their
> consciousness.

If I remember correctly, Tim mentioned that Ailsa has a problem with
"breeder" as an epithet. I would not place her particularly high on my
list of "people who need enlightenment (whether they want it or not)".


> Jess Anderson


TDO
--
#include StdDisclaimer.h

Endure pain, find joy, and make your own meaning, because the universe certainly
isn't going to supply it. Always be a moving target. Live. Live. Live. -- Lois
McMaster Bujold, _Barrayar_

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii)
Subject: Re: new hankie codes?
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 05:10:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.194305.21259@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii) wrote: 
>why?  because you weren't this self-aware at age 18, or because you
>aren't this self-aware now?


I would be very curious as to where they got their experience from for such a
title as they are claiming, especially for people at such an age (18 or
younger!)  

I'm not saying that it's impossible for them to possess such experience, but
I do find it very, very unusual!

Peter Thomas
Peter Thomas


-- 
"I'll lose my beard when they shave it from my cold, dead face!"

Quote from the Razor's Anonymous Handbook