HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jma1128@rigel.tamu.edu (Jason)
Subject: Re: CAD Experience (was - Re: Cognitive Dissonance)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:14:00 GMT

>In article <1992Sep29.203607.28927@athena.mit.edu> jjgwynn@athena.mit.edu (Joel J Gwynn) writes:
>I'm in complete agreement with the sentiment, although you have to be
>careful what you wish for.  What employers want is not necessarily what
>you need, unless all you need is a job and don't care what it is.
> 
>To provide a very common example:  most employers *want* AutoCad
>experience.  Is it the job of your school to provide a class in AutoCad?
>I think not, and in fact, believe it would be a disservice.  Whether or
>not your school provides classes in CAD, it is fairly easy to pick up
>those skills on your own if you want to.
> 
>A second, subsidiary issue is that claiming to be an AutoCad user, or
>"an experienced CAD operator" may get you a job, but you may very likely
>find yourself in CAD hell, relegated to rendering other people's designs
>ad infinitum, and the better you get at using the system, the more
>likely the company is going to say, "Gee, Joe is the slickest CAD
>operator we've got;  we can't afford to take him off the machine to do
>some design work."
> 
I think you have a totally poor approach to the teaching oc CAD. Do you not
realize that many firms (and I will be happy to provide at least 100 names
you can contact) today design a building totally on CAD. Many architects that I
personally know do not use the "pencil and paper" anymore because it is being
phased out as a thing of the past. Who wants to do drawings, have them changed
and have to redraw the building, when CAD makes this process very simple. I
know of many firms that will not even hire an architect (reguardless of degree)
without CAD experience. They flat out say "NO CAD, NO JOB". I think it is a
great service of architectural schools to teach CAD. If not, as you say, then
are you implementing that when no one uses pencil and paper anymore that we
should still learn the old antique style of design when the rest of the world
is using CAD. I don't know about the program you are in, but at Texas A&M (one
of the largest programs in the country) we not only get classes in CAD, but if
one wishes, you can proceed to classes in visualization - where you do the
drawings on the computer that you can walk through and see what the final
project is before a single stud is placed. So it is obvious to see the 
direction the profession is going, and I think you need to move in that
direction.

Jason Adams
Vice President, Texas A&M A.I.A.S.
From: amunn@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Alan Munn)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: Re: Talk to me
Date: 27 Sep 92 02:42:18 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina


In article <1992Sep25.101348.24774@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:

>Let's begin then with something, I am working in the CAAD area and would like
>to hear your opinions about CAAD generally.
>Are you satisfied with the available systems and where do you think more work
>should be done to make these systems more beneficial to architects?
>Do you like to see more enhanced graphics? More expert systems (& its relatives)
>What way should the development of systems for architecture goes?

It's long time since I have had any connection with CAD systems, but
one area of research I remember hearing a talk about in the early 80's
was the development of 'design grammars' for particular
achitects/architectural styles.  I don't remember the person's name,
although I believe he was in Australia (Melbourne perhaps).  The basic
idea was that the CAD system could learn the style of the user and
then speed up the choice of various aspects of the design by making
intelligent suggestions.  It struck me as an interesting idea.  I
wonder if anything has become of this?

Alan

>Ibrahim


-- 
Alan Munn                     <amunn@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
Dept. of Linguistics, CB# 3155 UNC Chapel Hill NC 27599
From: millest@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: Re: Help on Autocad v.12
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:21:34 CDT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

In article <1992Oct1.102736.2852@wkuvx1.bitnet>, beelewm@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
> I was wondering if anyone could give me any information about
>  Autocad v.12.  I herd it was comming out and that it is totally
> different from the rest of the autocad's.
> 
> So anyone got The scoop?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Catch 22 ------------ Beelewm@wkuvx1.bitnet -------------- Marc
> 
>
	your looking in the wrong newsgroup. you should be looking in
	alt_cad_autocad. there is a post on it right now about the
	new changes to R 12 c1. check it out.

	stu

	millest@wkuvx1.bitnet
 
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: kdlayon@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Kristofer D Layon)
Subject: Hello
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 07:01:58 GMT

Hello!  Just thought I would submit something so my address will be made known.
I am an undergrad who will be applying for an M. Arch program this spring.  I
hope to get in the U or Minnesota.

I encourage anyone who comes across statistics about employment, salaries,
specialty areas, etc., to post the information to the net.  This may be 
obvious; I just hope this ends up being more than a gab-group about
architecture.

Incidentally, I am very interested in incorporating European design elements
(specifically German/Northern European) into American design.  Does anyone
know if this appeals to anyone other than myself?  Are very specific design
styles good in architecture?  I hope not; I hate bland, one-style-fits-all
type of thought.  Please comment on my inquiry!

Thanks.
From: randolph@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM (Randolph Fritz)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: Re: First post!  First Post!
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:56:40
Organization: St. Dismas Infirmary for the Incurably Informed
	<MURPHYG.92Sep27081330@peplinsk.Software.Mitel.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cognito.ebay.sun.com
In-reply-to: murphyg@Software.Mitel.COM's message of 27 Sep 92 12:13:30 GMT

Gary, if you ask your questions about geodesic domes on
bit.listserv.geodesic, or its bitnet counterpart, you'll probably get
more information

__Randolph Fritz  sun!cognito.ebay!randolph || randolph@ebay.sun.com

Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: stiv@stat.rice.edu (david n stivers)
Subject: Alternative construction methods.
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:09:13 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.020745.18478@nmsu.edu> dtasman@NMSU.edu (Dan Tasman) writes:
>There are quite a few alternative style homes in Las Alturas, a subdivision at  
>the far south side of Las Cruces.  A few geodesic homes there (the only ones  
>I've seen permanently occupied), a few adobe igloos, but the great majority of  
>the homes are adobe, rammed earth and Pueblo style.  


Are any of them haybale? This is a traditional SW building method, which
(as I understand it) generally involved constructing the walls out of
haybale blocks, plastering them over, and constructing a wood
roof. When properly constructed (both inside and out plastered), they are
actually significantly more fire resistant than a standard wood frame house.

They are also very cheap to build. Oat hay is supposed to be superior to
regular hay because of its better insulation proporties. The materials aren't
as expensive as a regular adobe, and they're less labor intensive than a
rammed earth.


So does anyone else get the cold chills when they see today's modern
pathetically pretentious "Colonial" heap? You know, the ones with a bazillion 
square feet, aluminum frame windows (with taped on "window panes"), shiny brass
fixtures that look like they'll last about a year (if you can stand to look at 
them), and all the sense of aesthetic of a fresh cow turd?  Matches that gold 
trim Lexus nicely, though.   Brrrr.

David

-- 

david n stivers stiv@rice.edu
From: randolph@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM (Randolph Fritz)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: Re: sleepless weeks
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:49:30
Organization: St. Dismas Infirmary for the Incurably Informed
	<1992Sep29.011625.13398@viewlogic.com>
	<1992Sep29.143646.20395@sctc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cognito.ebay.sun.com
In-reply-to: smith@sctc.com's message of Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:36:46 GMT

It's a good point--many great modern architects have also had
structural engineering backgrounds; certainly Frank Lloyd Wright and
Julia Morgan did.  From my distance as an interested layman, it seems
to me that architecture has the same aesthetic/engineering split that
exists within the software engineering community, where there has been
a long uphill fight to gain respect for "user friendliness" among
people with mostly engineering backgrounds who are apt to prefer
criteria of efficiency.

     |\/|\/|
     |  | ||\  /|
     |  | || \/||
|\  /|  | || | ||
| \/||  | || | ||  Randolph Fritz
| | ||  | || | ||  sun!cognito.ebay!randolph
| | ||  | || | ||  randolph@ebay.sun.com
| | ||  | || | ||  Mountain View, California, North America, Earth
| | ||  | || | ||
| | ||  | || | ||
|\| ||\/ \/|\| ||

Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: rwzobel@unity.ncsu.edu (Rick Zobel)
Subject: Immersive Environments (VR) and Design
Organization: North Carolina State University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:19:22 GMT

I am doing my thesis in part on the use of Computer Generated
Immersive Environments (CGIE) (formally Virtual Reality, which,
as a term will hopefully soon die and go away, leaving the
underlying concepts free to do what ever they may :) as a
means for representing the experience of approach, entry and 
arrival to an architectural space. 

In talking to many people over the course of the past three
years, I have found very few people who are interested in
CGIE's as a potential medium for architectural design. I
know of several places using architecture as a medium through
which the virtual worlds technology hardware can be tested,
but not enough to be counted on one hand who are doing
work with architecture and using the hardware as the medium.

Is there anyone out there who is doing this type of research,
or has a contact with someone who is doing this?

Thanks in advance

Rick Zobel
NCSU School of Design
Architecture Department
From: cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: Re: sleepless nights.
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:26:22 GMT
Organization: Fire in the Mountain

In article <1992Sep28.004738.12856@athena.mit.edu> martha@athena.mit.edu (Andrew T Cameron) writes:
>that it is because we can never get the "correct answer." 

The point of this exercise, although it is rarely made explicitly clear,
is for you to develop your own sense of what is appropriate.  Note I did
not say "correct", because in design there simply is no correct answer.
What you are supposed to be learning are skills that enable you to
explore a set of needs, constraints, and connecting relationships that
comprise a design problem, and eventually resolve them to pattern that
represents a solution. 

A design curriculum is not about making things, it is about learning who
you are and how you work best. In every class there are always a few
students who avoid the sleeplessness of the group studio entirely,
simply because they are more aware of their bodies, their minds, their
limits, and under what conditions they work most productively.

Andrew Cohill




-- 
|          ...we have to look for routes of power our teachers never       
|              imagined, or were encouraged to avoid.   T. Pynchon          
|                    
|Andrew Cohill        cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu            VPI&SU                                                  
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: cavrak@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Steve Cavrak)
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Originator: cavrak@newton.emba.uvm.edu
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:35:30 GMT

From article <1abc34INNaje@agate.berkeley.edu>, by dbucher@ocf.berkeley.edu (Daniel Bucher):

	... I've been wanting to turn some people on to this really
	cool book that only an architect would truly understand.
 
	It's called "The Return of Mr. X", and it's by Gilbert, Mario,
	and Jaime Hernandez (Los Bros Hernandez, who bring you Love &
	Rockets) along with


"Mister X" is also available in an interactive (Macintosh) CD-ROM
version.  A sample is available in Nautilus Vol 2.1.  I've seen it
listed in one of the CD collections from someone like Educomp.

Indeed, worth checking out.

Steve
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:09:21 EDT
From: <MCL109@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: posting

 THIS IS JUST A TEST TO SEE IF I COULD POST AN ARTICLE IN THE NEWS.
From: randolph@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM (Randolph Fritz)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: Re: Alternative construction methods.
Date: 2 Oct 92 10:39:13
Organization: St. Dismas Infirmary for the Incurably Informed
	<1992Oct1.020745.18478@nmsu.edu> <BvH4rD.6H3@rice.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cognito.ebay.sun.com
In-reply-to: stiv@stat.rice.edu's message of 2 Oct 92 03:09:13 GMT

Hay, thatch, & similar materials turn out to be warm and long-lasting
materials when properly selected (thatch in February--gack!),
installed (labor-bloody-intensive), and maintained (see installed).
The high-tech version of these are probably fiber-reinforced concretes
and similar materials, which are gaining in popularity and may turn
out to the construction materials of the future.

__Randolph Fritz  sun!cognito.ebay!randolph || randolph@ebay.sun.com

Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: jjgwynn@athena.mit.edu (Joel J Gwynn)
Subject: sleepless weeks
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:51:32 GMT


In reply to my post of Monday morning, September 28, 1992, Mr. Andrew Cohill, 
Architect, sent me this e-mail:


"
One can assume from your note that you do not have a design background,
and that you have no interest in learning more about design.

All I will say is that you raised some valid points, but that my post
had nothing to do with them. There are many shortcomings in design
education that affect some of the things you mentioned, but I believe
deeply in the studio approach to education.  It solves more problems
than it creates.  

If posts like yours (unfocused rage) dominate this group, I won't be
reading it for long.

Andrew Cohill
Architect
"



This gets me steamed for the following reasons.

1)	My understanding of the net is that it provides a (semi) public forum for 
ideas and questions.  Therefore, positions are subject to public scrutiny, as in
any academic field.  If, in my public post, I "raised some valid points" they
should be addressed in similar fashion.

2)	WHAT in my post allows you to assume ANYTHING about my background, or my
interests.  For the record, I am a candidate for the degrgee of Master of
Architecture, MIT in the Spring of 1993.  

3)	What you "believe deeply" is your business.  What I'm interested in is
arguments/positions that may be discussed/sustained/discarded on the basis of
rational enquiry/substantiation.  

4)	The precision of my rage hasn't been challenged.  Rage/confontation isn't
intrinsically bad, it is the result of cognitive dissonance.  The hope is that
engagement of the causes of rage will lead to enlarged understanding of the
issues.

5)	What you read is also your business. 





"It was my growing convicion that there could be no architecture of our time
without the prior acceptance of scientific and technical developments.  I have
never lost this conviction.  Today, as for a long time past, I believe that
architecture has little or nothing to do with the invention of interesting forms
or with personal inclinations.  True architecture is always objective and is the
expression of the inner structure of our time, from which it stems."

Mies van de Rohe at Work
by Peter Carter, 1964
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Wind resistance (was Re: First post!  First Post!)
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:32:19 GMT


In article <MURPHYG.92Sep27081330@peplinsk.Software.Mitel.COM>, murphyg@Software.Mitel.COM (Gary Murphy) writes:

|> Especially in these days of hurricane devestations, I'm also wondering
|> if anyone knows of any dome-manufacturing bent on re-housing Florida
|> with more wind-resistant designs.
|> 
Evidently, Jimmy Carter (yes, THE Jimmy Carter) and his housing construction
group called Habitat built some number of houses that ended up right in the
path of Andrew. While other houses in the area were having their roofs
sheared off and walls toppled, the Habitat houses stayed in one piece.

It seems the problem is not so much in design, but in construction. Some
people are now talking about revamping minimum building codes to prevent
the apparently widespread (at least in Florida) super cheap and super
bogus construction techniques. 
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: mcgonig@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (Gordon McGonigal)
Subject: Why is green so popular?
Organization: Dept. of Elect. & Comp. Engineering, U of Manitoba
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 22:24:23 GMT

So, for the last 10 years I`ve been wondering why many buildings have
been built with green-tinted glass and faux-tarnished-copper siding?
It seems shopping malls are particularly prone to this blight.   This
at least is my observation in Canada.   Is this the same in other
countries?

Do architects really think this looks good?   Is it derived from
pressures from developers that feel they want an "old time" theme to
appeal to a perceived conservative, backward-looking mood in N.
America?   Does this green glass provide any energy-saving advantage?

ok, so it`s not exactly destroying our cities, but they could be so
much more interesting....(and I probably have better things to do
than whine about things that I can't change.  But, you know, fine
architecture can make a big difference to one`s life.  To be able
to walk down the street, surrounded by finely executed works of art
is a tremendously uplifting experience (one that rarely happens to me)
It's nice to be reminded of some of humankind's great achievements
every once in awhile, in these times when the whole point of living
is often obscured.  It`s too bad so much public space goes to waste.).


Gord (do you think I`m nuts?).
--
                                   * * *
Gord McGonigal                                  mcgonig@eeserv.ee.UManitoba.ca
Dept. of Electrical & Computer Engineering
University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, CANADA (R3T 2N2)       phone: (204) 474-6295
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: jack@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Jack Kobzeff)
Subject: Re: Geodesic dome height
Followup-To: alt.architecture
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:08:36 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.012448.26667@access.usask.ca>, choy@skorpio.usask.ca
(I am a terminator.) wrote:
> 
> I take it domes don't have a lot of vertical outside wall. Can you
> build domes on top of domes? 

Many GeoDomes have vertical walls with the dome 'on top' of the wall.

> I suppose you can pack
> domes like golf balls in a box or basketball.

If you are talking horizontal packing of multiple domes, yes, domes pack
very well. (But you still have some 'waste' between them. A good design
would use this area for some use.) Do the old example of taking seven
pennies (or dimes, etc....) and arrange them with one in the center and six
around it. See the gaps?  Once you start going for verticle
packing.....why??? A traditional 'box' would have much more efficent area
use.


Jack Kobzeff     (jack@jato.jpl.nasa.gov)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: umprotea@ccu.umanitoba.ca (gerald a. proteau)
Subject: Re: sleepless weeks--why?
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 04:18:06 GMT

In <1992Sep27.023014.16912@tamsun.tamu.edu> hnb5164@tamuts.tamu.edu (Heather Noel Bobbie) writes:

>i have a question--why is architecture (or "environmental design,"
>as it's called here at a&m) a major in which students lose a lot of
>sleep?  i mean, generally when i say that i am an e.d. major, people
>say to me "oh, god, i bet you never sleep!"  and i don't,
>generally.  (2 days, 3hrs sleep, at this point so excuse me if this
>post is disjointed).
>okay, what i'm saying is, why shouldn't we be allowed to sleep?:)
>it's not as if i am not managing my time well, but i work hard and
>am carrying 16 hrs of credit this term.  and i often, like most
>arch students stay up very late.  why don't other majors do this as
>much?  am i too conscientious about my work?

>if this post has made any sense, let me know.:)

>anyway, i'm happy this group was created--yay!!!

>heather
>_________________________________________     __________________________
>\          "i need a new brain-         / -> / heathernoel             /
>/           this one's shot..."         \ -> \ hnb5164@tamuts.tamu.edu \
>\                                       /rip!/ architorture student--  /
>/paraphernalia shouldn't intimidate you!\ -> \ kiss my apse!           \
I hate to be an asshole Engineer, but 16 credits in one term seems a bit light

to me.  Try 20-21 credits in one term with instuctors and lab TA's who have

yet to learn the English language.......Sleep you ask?   


                        
                          G. Proteau
                          Mechanical Engineering
From: jiggles@heart.seas.upenn.edu (Linda J. Streicher)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: job opportunites?
Summary: how should I market myself?
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:52:39 GMT
Followup-To: alt.architecture
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Originator: jiggles@heart.seas.upenn.edu



Well,

I haven't seen any discussion about job opportunities so 
I thought I'd ask a few obvious questions.

I will be graduating with a Masters in Arch in May, my undergrad
degrees are in business and fine arts.

How should I start my job search? What geographical areas of the
US are "booming" in architecture? (I would like to stay in the North East)

What special skills are desirable for arch jobs (CAD? Rendering?
Model building? Drafting? Presentation drawings? Design?)

How important is my portfolio? Will my business background be helpful
for obtaining a job? 

Are there any architects out there who are hiring? ;-)

Thoughts on this subject, or others, are welcome,

Linda 

Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: equitus@athena.mit.edu (Joseph M Knight)
Subject: Re: Talk to me
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 21:04:35 GMT


I've just completed my thesis research/project for a second professional
degree in architecture, dealing in large part with CAD for design purposes.
I guess I'll share a little of what I discovered, though going into much
detail will be difficult.

CAD has made great progress in the Production of architectural documents: ie
working drawings, specs, and presentations.  Computers are a great tool
for communitcation (witness the 'net).  However, CAD as a tool to enhance
"design activity" is woefully inadequate.  Progress is being made, though
slowly, and after some false starts.  The biggest problem it seems is the
inability to properly articulated exactly what it is we are doing when we
are designing - therefore how can we expect a stupid machine to be able
to anticipate and abet this activity?  (very pithy.  sorrry)  

For more informtion, read stuff by Bill Mitchell, John Habraken, Donald
Schon (at MIT) and look into a periodical called "Design REsearch" (or 
could wait until my thesis hits the shelves here in another 9 months:-)


....all IMHO, thank you.

Joseph Knight  SMArchS '92
Newsgroups: alt.architecture