From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: How to Protect Women
X-To: CONCERNED CITIZEN
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 05:47:00 GMT

politics@hpbs654.boi.hp.com (Concerned Citizen) writes...
CC> > rfs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (richard.f.j.soyack) writes:
CC> >
CC> >Do I have the right to kill someone who beats me up?  Or
CC> >should I go to the police to have that person restrained?

CC> If that person is using deadly force against you, yes, you do have the
CC> legal right to kill them.  Deadly force doesn't just mean a gun or
CC> knife either, but can be one's fists (this is usually the case when
CC> there is a disparity in the physical stature between the assailant and
CC> victim, e.g. a man assaulting a woman).


CC> >I have absolutely no interest in establishing a special class
CC> >in this country that has the right to kill or main.  If such a
CC> >class exists, I have an interest in removing this right to
CC> >kill or main from that class.

CC> Huh?

If I read it correctly, he was arguing against the rash of court rulings
that have allowed women a "carte blanche" to murder their husbands *even
though there were no clear and present danger of grievous bodily harm* (note
well the two legal standards which I have summoned), and to use the defence
of "Abused Wife Syndrome" (note that this term ignores *men* who have been
abused by their wives).

Under the standards which I referred to, there would have to be a clear
danger to the person's life ("grievous bodily harm") *at the time of the
killing alleged to be in self-defence* ("and present").  Indeed, if the
person could *not* prove that there was a clear and present danger of
grievous bodily harm, the person was usually found guilty, although seemingly
our legal system will *now* allow a wife to (for example) burn her SLEEPING
husband in bed, claim afterward that she had been abused, and get off scott
free.

In my humble opinion, IF I were in an abusive relationship, I would LEAVE!  I
would never allow it to degrade to a situation where I was in a life and death
struggle and was forced to use deadly force in order to prevent someone from
using deadly force against me.

I realise that this SOUNDS as though I'm being unsympathetic towards women
who are abused, but would *YOU* say that an abusive man *DESERVES* to die?
As I imagine you might say, I would also say no - I would rather he be tried
in court and make restitution to society.  And also, what if he IS innocent?
If he's dead, what can he say in his defense when his wife says "He abused me"?

So indeed, while I realise that "allowing" women to murder spouses, even while
there is no clear and present danger of grievous bodily harm, seems like a
"good" way to prevent and punish wife abuse, it also allows FAR too many avenues
for potential abuse.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Cthulhu for President in '92 - Why vote for the _lesser_ of two evils?"
                                                          - Bronis Vidugiris
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