HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Authority and mass conscience (Vysotsky: loop #6)
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:49:36 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Nov6.190823.17178@husc3.harvard.edu>, verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:

[ a pile of s**t dumped on Schnitke's head ]

>He never wrote a song someone *could* sing, has he?
>He wrote a score to a some Taganka performace and
>film, I know. The songs there could be worth something
>from the classical point of view (I doubt :), but
>nevertheless you could never see a KSP-fan singing
>this song, nor a taxi driver playing its tape.

His songs ARE sung. No wimps and posers sing them though,
and this is the probable reason you never heard these songs
sung. One of the favourite songs on mekhmat MGU in the
early nineties is "Bylo vremya, protsvetala v mire nasha
storona" (mysic by Schnitke, verse by Pushkin. Man, I would
seriously recommend you to read what you post before posting.
At least sometimes. 

>
>One more note: the arguments like "Shnitke says Vysotsky is a
>great musician" and "Korzhavin likes his poetry" are typical
>for scs collective consiousness. 

Still to me the opinion of Korzhavin in the question means more
than yours. It is not a question of collective consciousness.
Korzhavin is a great nice funny charming old guy, and sure he
knows of both life and poetry more than some younger boring 
dirty-minded dung-headed snobs (please notice that I don't mean 
anybody in particular).

-- 
Thus spake Kalmoth the Vile, Slayer of the Seven Pigs of the North.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: eugene@rdrel.relcom.msk.su (Eugene Peskin)
Subject: Re: Reply to S. Borodin (was: Antisemitism and Verbitsky)
Organization: Relcom R&D
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:47:16 GMT

In <1d6vjcINNcp4@rodan.UU.NET> avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:

>In article <Bx43wK.42A@news.cso.uiuc.edu> didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
>>  1. Do you think there was anti-semitism in Russia?  And, how did it
>>  expressed itself, if it did exist?

>Antisemitism as well as other ethnical phobies did and do and will
>exist anywhere in the world. Russia is not an exception, though
>the antisemitism never was even remotely as intensive as, say,
>anti-Azerbaijanizm.

Well, I tried to keep my mouth shut... Vadim, you are not right.
There were countries in which anti-semitism didn't exist and there are
countries in which anti-semitism doesn't exist. Russia is
one of the countries where due to various historical reasons it
is stronger than average.

>The best explanation is Vysotsky's "Vy tozhe
>postradavshie, i, znachit, obrusevshie" -- and he was quite close
>to the "russian soul". The system was repressive to anybody --
>Jews and Russians got equal shares. The thing called "state antisemitism"
>never existed, unlike repressions against small Caucasus nations.
>I still continue to wonder how people can be so self-centered
>and never realize that others were sufferning as well and nobody
>cared about hurting them personally.

The problem is that Vysotsky was talking about Moscovites and
"intelligentsia".

>>  Where you friends with any of them, and if yes, did they express
>>  their opinions about anti-semitism to you?  If they did, what were those
>>  opinions?

>Yes, i have a number of friends who are Jews (some of them are on the
>net) and heard a lot of complaints, though i never got hard facts. In
>fact, all of them were much better off in Soviet system than i was
>(like five of them had doctors degrees, practically all had better paid
>jobs) so i always took it with a large grain of salt.

Well, I don't know if I can be counted (we worked with Vadim
in the same room for a year and a half :)).
Vadim, if it is really needed (the discussion is goin' too long)
I can provide experiences of my family...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: Some private news from Moscow
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:14:14 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <01GQZQFNN9EO8ZDW9U@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU> "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>Today I got an e-mail letter from one my friend. He came
>back to Moscow (Space Research Institute) from Harvard
>recently. I think the audience would be interested to
>read an exempts. Could someone translate the Russian
>part ?  The original, as you can see below is a mix of
>English and Russian.
>
>-------
>
>Here, in fact, all is not so bad, as you may have imagined reading Novoe
>russkoe slovo. $ is just passed 400 rub today (403 rub/$). Prices
>are still on the level of approx 100 times of doperestroechnykh, so you
>can calculate that the real rate is about 30-50 rub/$ . ...

    If the rouble is so undervalued, one could make a fortune by
    exchanging dollars for roubles. Shall we assume that the friend of 
    yours has already put his dollars where his mouth is?  Or, is he 
    waiting till the rouble hits new lows against the dollar (current 
    forecast is 500r/$ in December)?


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: Hookers taking vouchers?
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:19:15 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Nov9.113505.1@acad3.alaska.edu> ftsam@acad3.alaska.edu (Sergei Maurits) writes:
>
>> In article <84600057@glas.apc.org>, margaret@glas.apc.org 
>(Patricia Schwartz) writes:
>>> Rumor currently all over Moscow:
>>> Prostitutes have begun to accept privatization vouchers in payment
>>> for their sexual services. 
>>> This is not a joke - I heard it from several different sources.
>> 
...
>
>To Whom It May Concern:
>
>Market price of vaucher (privatizatsionnyj check) climbed from 3000 rubl.
>(beginning of Oct.) to 7000-8000 (b. of Nov.), that is comparable to high 
>monthly salary. ...

    I guess the supply of hookers is growing faster than that of vouchers.




-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:9758 rec.arts.books:19707
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Venedikt Erofejev: Moskva - Petushki
Date: 9 Nov 1992 06:26:57 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Moskva, Petushki

In article <1992Nov8.140437.17226@husc3.harvard.edu> zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
>
>MV:
>>	Should I take this question as rhetoric? Whose life?
>>	His life, of course? 
>
>Nonsense.  
Two questions (or are they one?): why do you care who's life? and Stories
from whose life did Sveik narrate?

Some general stuff about literature critics. From mine experience in
answering letters of physics maniac I can imagine how annoying amateurs
can be. There are two points to be made, though. First we are on forum
which is _de-facto_ not designed for specialist. No matter want anybody or
not it changed from soc.culture.soviet to something like alt.(or rec.)obschii.trep. 
So whoever wants a scientific, professional discussion of russian literature
is welcome to start sci.russian.literature. With the present state of affairs
complains on non-professionalism of netters looks unjustified to me.
Second (piece of general stuff). Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may well be).
But I'm under impression that literature critisism is much less rigorous
science than, say, mathematics. So, for every point you may find contr-point
which is as well justified as opposing. From which follows, that although
proclaiming one's opinion (either implicitely or explicitely) the ultimate
truth is bad manners for amateur, it does not suit profeesional as well.

>  is not called
>autobiography".  The fact that an author exploits his past experience
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Does this matter?

>
>Very well, I shall make my advice directly relevant to the topic.
>Dear Misha, it is painfully obvious that you don't know the first
>thing about philology.  Please abstain from making bombastic

What is first thing about philology? I always thought that "art
belongs to the people" is not that far from reality. Let me explain
My model of human culture (including science as well as art) is sort
of onion-like. The deepest layers has no direct influence on furthest out.
An scientific example will be: Works of Einstein and Plank does not 
influence you directly. You probably never red their paper and if you
are not deep in this you do not understand their ideas (I mean really deep, 
everybody can learn e=m*c**2). They do influence some shallower layers.
Still far from most people. Some theoreticians, maybe. After
many steps influence reaches engineers who made your tv/vcr/car/whatever
and to you. I think same thing is true for art. Number of shotr-circuit
attempts is far more, though. Now, maybe it's middle-layer impresion,
but it looks that piece which can not make it to the surface in number
of steps small enough goes astray. This _seems_ to be happening in
field theory/astrophysics. I'm not specialist enough to claim this
for sure. Does not same going on in criticism?

[ much analisys, which to me looks way, way, way far-fetched is ommited]

Yury M.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: cema@eng.umd.edu (Simon Hawkin)
Subject: Re: Jewish Autonomous Oblast
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 08:24:09 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1dl0vkINNnos@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
>In article <rabjab.244.721280081@golem.ucsd.edu> rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff Bytof) writes:
>>
>>Birobidzhan is the capital of the Jewish A.O.  Why are the Jews
>>there?  Were they banished there by Stalin, or is there another
>
>Well, I'm not old enough to remember the formation of the region, but
>I was told that official reason for founding it there was (do not laugh, all
>flames to sci.romours)
>
>"In the process of random migration of nationalities in our multynational 
>motherland, all Jews were concentrated ..."

Aha. On the other hand, as far as I know, there were fewer Jews than
even Ukranians, fewer than Russians, and fewer than the native population,
in the 70s. Surely, now, with the new wave of emigration, there are
still fewer of them there.

A rumor was that Stalin was going to encourage pogroms to move
all the Jews in Birobidzhan pretending to save them from the
wrath of the rest people. (Remember the trial of the Jewish
doctors ?) The rumor is strange, since the "Oblast'" was
organized in the 30s, like 1936 or so. (Was he going to accept
Jews from Europe too ? He was well aware of Hitler's plans.)

All this stuff is so stupid that even we or our parents who have
spent all life in that country can never tell what was the
reason for this or that strange feature of the Soviet construction.
It seems absolutely schizophrenic now; not then, though.
People used to see some logic in it.
-- 
---
This is Simon Hawkin from Merry Land.
From: mam18@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Nostal'gia (was RE: Moscow music and drinking rules)
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:39:33 GMT
Organization: University of Scranton

In article <84600054@glas.apc.org>, margaret@glas.apc.org (Patricia Schwartz) writes:
> 
> Another fact of life in Moscow:
> 
> Suppose you are in the Metro underground passage between Teatralny and Oxotny
> Ryad (Marx has no more Prospekt these days! a takzhe Sverdlova nyet)


It's a pity!!! There was a unique square of two Jews in Moscow (Marx &
Sverdlov), and now it's gone...


> and you hear the most splendid Jazz band in the passage, playing Hello Dolly
> better than you could ever imagine hearing it, even if you were not
> drunk and it was not Friday night.
> 
> What NOT to do:
> 
> Make sure you do not put more than 100 roubles in their hat on the ground.
> 


A couple years ago 10 kopeeks was enough!!!


> Because once they get enough money for vodka, they will
> stop playing and you will be left with the wind through the tunnel an
> the mud on your shoes, but no Jazz music.
> 

In a truely Woland style:  "People are still the same."


> Hopefully you yourself will still have enough to get a botylochky


It's better to spell "botylochky" with two 'u' (butylochku).
 

> from the kiosk and go home with your friends and put on some nice
> CD's from the official unofficial Moscow CD black market
> state factory.
> 
> If you get musicians drunk and don't leave enough for yourself,
> 
> IMMEDIATELY book your return flight to the West.
> 
> love
> m.


Respectfully,

Michael.
From: nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Vysotsky flame: loop #4 (Verbitsky)
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:43:26 GMT
Organization: The Kremlin Wall of Harvard
In-reply-to: pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu's message of 9 Nov 92 18:39:07 GMT

pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:

> This is another ugly flame message. Don't read if you care for your
> time and sanity, because it includes citations from one of the most
> odious Harvard screwballs, namely someone Misha Verbitsky.
<...>

Hey, you still haven't told us what the fuck Lehigh University is!

Respectfully,
Phil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: igor@cs.columbia.edu (Igor Pankevich)
Subject: Re: Reply to S. Borodin (was: Antisemitism and Verbitsky)
Originator: igor@krishna.cs.columbia.edu
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:57:58 GMT


In article <BxBF69.Hp7@max.physics.sunysb.edu>, gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin) writes:
> >
> 	Listen, stop this whining. If you work for a company and will apply
> for a position in another company -- you will be fired and you employer will
> check that you do not take anything useful with you.
> 	Since everything in the xUSSR was goverment owned, applying for an
> emigration is automatically qualified as unloyalty from the above point of view
> 	So what I am saying is that this "anti-emigre" policy is inevitable.
> The only difference is that the whole USSR was like a one big corporation
> whether you like it or not. You had no choice: want to live elsewhere -- face
> the consequences. Corporation is not interesting in supporting and helping
> the progress of its *dead* elements.
> 	Sic!

Mark Twain once said: "It is better not to say anything so that half of the 
people will think you are stupid than to begin to talk and thus convince the
other half in this fact" (as well as I remember it).

1. You always have the option of not telling your employer that you are looking
for another job. Not the case with Soviet authorities.
2. Your employer doesn't keep you in their place forcefully: if you want 
to leave, you can. Not the case in xSU.
3. Your employer makes sure you don't take anything with you that _belongs to the 
company_. You can take whatever is yours. Not the case in xSU.
4. Try to emigrate from US. See the reaction of the authorities.
(Yeah, I know that US is not a big corporation, but you still, according to 
your logic, show "unloyalty" to the state...
5. If you have questions, post them.


> _______________________________________________________________________________
>  Eugene  N.  Tyurin  <+>                           gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu
>  Physics Department  <+>   Two wrongs do not make it right, but three lefts do.
>  SUNY @ Stony Brook  <+>                                W. Siegel (unpublished)


--Igor P.
From: galatin@husc9.Harvard.EDU (Peter Galatin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: NUKE HARVARD TO HELL!
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:42:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov9.114212.17246
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Nov4.214132.43054@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:
|> See subject.
|> 
|> -- 
|> Thus spake Kalmoth the Vile, Slayer of the Seven Pigs of the North.

Pochemu vse ninavidyat moi universitet?
-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
Peter Galatin

Internet: galatin@husc.harvard.edu (during school year)
          galatin-peter@mcastl.fidonet.org (during summer)


Tip of the day: If you don't like the food, marinate the hell out of it!

Robert Plant, FEMINIST: "The soul of a woman was created BELOW....."
__________________________________________________________________________
From: susanh@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Susan Highlander)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Soviet Culture
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:30:44 GMT
Expires: Tue, 1 Dec 1992 06:00:00 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

Can anyone tell me about or refer me to a book about the differences
in Soviet culture as compared to the US... etiquette, customs, etc.?
Thanks.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:9724 soc.culture.cis:58
From: kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu (Greg Kosinovsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.cis
Subject: Re: HELP YEFIM EPSTEIN
Date: 7 Nov 92 20:23:27 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev) posted:

..........

>That is why we again appeal for any possible aid you can provide,
>including professional advice in case the treatment cannot be continued
>or proves, at some stage, to be ineffective. We are willing to try 
>the most daring experimental strategies and methods.

>Svetlana Zavrazhnova-Epstein
>Moldagulovoi Street 15-2-114
>Moscow 111538 Russia
>(phone: 7-095-375-6023 or 373-9569)
>*************************************************************************

Question: Do you know where monetary aid could be sent this time?

					       Greg
From: leonid@spss.com (Leonid Feygin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: An end to Culture.SOVIET!
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:37:09 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

In article <1992Nov5.201525.28457@dxcern.cern.ch> GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg) writes:
...
>> >In <84600051@glas.apc.org> Patricia writes:
>> >
>> >> 
>> >> I know what makes this group so full of miserable anger-junkies:
>> >> it is the title: soc.culture.SOVIET
...
>
>What gives me this ownership??? The very fact that it is MY culture and I
>don't intend to let it be fucked up by ignorant uneducated persons. Heard
>anything about the DEFENDING OF THE CULTURE?
>
...

This is a strange argument, to say the least.  No one, I think, can
declare any culture a personal property.

As for Patricia Schwartz' lively reports from Moscow, I miss them.
They were almost the only reason I've been reading this group lately.
I think she made a mistake when she started arguing with fools.
--
Leonid Feygin     SPSS, Inc.     leonid@spss.com     (312) 329-3639
From: verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Mormons in Russia
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:43:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov11.194349.17357
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <1992Nov11.133332.60699@cc.usu.edu> slj1k@cc.usu.edu writes:
>Greetings and salutations

>I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the Mormons)
>and am interested in knowing if there are any Russian members of the Church who
>use the `Net'.  If there are members out there, please tell me how you became 
>a member and your ideas and opinions about the Church in Russia.  I'm not doing
>this for anything but my for own personal interest (I have a dear friend who is
>currently serving a mission for the Church in Moscow), and I represent no one 
>but myself.

>Please email me at the following address:

>Mark L. Reece SLJ1K@CC.USU.EDU.

Odnogo moego priyatelya (Andreya Zheludeva) uzhasno dostali
mormony, kogda on eshcho zhil v Moskve. Oni kak-to pronyuhali,
chto on govorit po-angliiski i davai prikhodit' k nemu chut'
li ne kazhdyi den' i okhmuryat'.  Nikakoi vozmozhnosti ikh
prognat' ne bylo. Razumeetsya, on vsyo ikh mormonstvo voznenavidel
khuzhe gor'koi red'ki i v rezul'tate smylsya ot nikh za
granitsu. Seichas v Grenoble (proiznositsya, kak vo Frantsii prinyato,
s udareniem na poslednii slog) obretaetsya. Vot do chego religiozniki
mogut dovesti! Takie dela.

Po-moemu yasno, pochemu ya pishu po-russki. My apologies
to people who did not understand Russian.

Misha.
From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Reply to S. Borodin (was: Antisemitism and Verbitsky)
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:05:44 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:

>>  Second, we need to express out sincere hopes that neither
>>of our Jewish friends would suffer significant physical
>>damage, does the next anti-Jewish pogrom happen not in NYC,
>>as usual, but at their place[s]. Otherwise their complains
>>would not be understood: this is not antisemitic country...
>>Serega & Co
 
Garik Didinsky replies:

> Chuvak, stop smoking cold turkeys. What happened in NYC was not pogrom,
> as in government supported massacre of a minority group, but a clash
> between two minority groups, which took a very ugly form. Learn more
> about america before you blab your mouth in an excessive manner.
> ---Garik.



      Before *you* blab your own mouth, Garichek, tell us whose
      definition requires a _pogrom_ to be state-supported or,
      at least, committed with the connivance of the State.

-- Eduard
From: didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: More Jewish jokes...j
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:36:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxBLp5.AK0
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Just think of me as of your jewish cheerleader. I don't jump around, just walk
and tell jokes:

The KGB knocks on Rabinovich's door one night. He opens the door to find two
KGB men: "Does Tovarisch Rabinovich live here?" 
"No," replied Rabinovich, standing there in his pajamas.
"NO? So what is your name?"
"Rabinovich."
The KGB men knock him to the groud and say: "Didn't you say you did'nt live
here?"
"You call this living?"

---Garik.

ps. Give me an "A"; Give me an "A"; Give me an "A"; What does it spell? "Aaaa!"
					 --a jewish cheer.
From: alexei@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Alexei Moiseyev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: dixie
Date: 10 Nov 92 10:51:12 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK


	Howdee neighbours!
  'member what Good Lord Jesus used to say?  "Love thy neighbour..."
and all?  A partner of mine, down in the famed city of Oxford wishes
to read messages of this reputed society we call "soc.culture.soviet".
But it ain't working for him, 'cause he's on a Vax!  So the question
to all you, good men is: How d'you login "soc.culture.soviet" from a Vax?
  
  And 'nother thing.  What's been happenin' at NYU?  It kind of hard
to learn about these things here in Blighty.
		Thankya kindly for your dear-precious time
				'n cooperatin'. A.M-T.