HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: What happens _after_ equality?
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Distribution: soc
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 01:38:10 GMT

In article <SHAW.92Sep7195109@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu>, shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:>
>
> As I said in a previous post, I view the future of race relations in the US
> with very high optimism.  In the near term, I'm pessimistic, but in the far
> term, I'm extremely optimistic.  Being Asian in the US for my children will
> be not one tenth as difficult it was for my parents -- of that, I'm sure.
> And as I said in that same post, to get there will take a lot of hard work
> and a lot of fighting -- but we'll get there.

     I wonder if alot of people didn't think the same after the civil
rights movement of the sixties.  As the old saying goes, let's not count
our chickens . . .

> So the question arises: what do we do _after_ we get there?
> 
> I think that there is probably an obvious reason why many whites are afraid
> of equality -- because it compromises their own power.  Incompetent or
> marginally competent whites have a vast advantage over incompetent or
> marginally competent non-whites in America today.  What are we going to do
> about those people who would have done better if they could take advantage
> of their skin color, but who must "suffer" the consequences of their
> incompetence because of equality?
> 
> Yes, it's a little bit early to start feeling sorry for white people
> (especially those who aren't competent), but even incompetent, unqualified
> people have to feed their families and lead a life.  And quite remarkably,
> it's an strangely empowering feeling to be able to feel sorry for someone
> -- which is probably why I strongly dislike being felt sorry for -- it's a
> relationship based on power.  Generally, people only feel sorry for others
> when they have enough power to be that generous.

     Well, it's not like we're going to ship them all off to plantations
or concentration camps.  At the risk of sounding hopelessly arrogant, less
talented people will simply earn commensurate wages.  In fact, as a whole,
an argument could be made we'll all be better off because, with the most
qualified person in every job, the economy will be more efficient,
competitive, etc.

							George


----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
From: shin@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Chinese-American Mental Strategies
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:16:03 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Sep13.225928.3971@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>You silent readers of this newsgroup must have read about stories where
>the Chinese gov'ts on China, Singapore, and Taiwan has been involved in
>spying on its own citizens when the only crime that they've committed is
>to air their opinions.  Mr. Pan is an example of that mentality.  Each e-mail
>from him has attempted to allude to something in my background.
>(Note that I do _not_ acknowledge and do _not_ comment on the accuracy of
>his probings.)
>
>As a Westerner, I don't see the point of his probing.  Further, I don't
>see the point of his sending numerous copies of Usenet postings, in
>their entirety, to me.

Don't be ridiculous as usual, D.Joe.  What W.Pan may have done has nothing
to do with what governments of certain Asian countries have done.  Apply
same logic to you D.Joe, a Westerner in your word in second paragraph 
above, then we will have only liars who smear themselves of racial slur
jap and accuse other netter of doing so in Western countries.  Or air headed
brains who like to pick on a high school student.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:41:29 GMT

In article <BuHu4I.2pn@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>In article <lb1lo6INNahn@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Calling Dr. Nordstrom ...) writes:
>>
>>		hirota@sluggo.sdsc.edu (Bryan Hirota) :
>>		> Has every decent-minded Asian American done their 
>>		> duty by seeing Brandon Lee in this summer's action 
>>		> adventure flick "Rapid Fire"? Probably not.
>
>Nope.  And I doubt I will, either.
>
	[Stuff about supporting ethnic kinship deleted.]
>I don't go to see a movie based on its cast; I do it based on its subject
>matter and how well it is presented in the movie.  I think supporting
>something like *Rapid Fire* only helps to support more senseless violence.
>
	[Stuff about artsy films deleted.]

I've been surprised by the intensity of various posters (not just Kerry,
he's just been particularly clear in expressing his attitude) talking about
refusing to see movies "*like* [emphasis mine] Rapid Fire" because of
a general dislike of violence.  Now if everyone out there's truly
pacifist, then I have absolutely nothing to say.  You all have the moral
high ground on me.  But if you happily watch action movies like Indiana
Jones, Die Hard, Terminator, Star Wars, or even Beverly Hills Cop,
there is no basis for criticizing Rapid Fire for promoting senseless
violence.

OK, additional PC reasons to go see Rapid Fire:
	The leading female is intelligent, competent, and
		very professional, unlike the usual T&A,
		mindless, need-to-be-rescued roles women get in
		action films.
	Several Asian-American actors play significant parts.  Those
		in Asian-American roles get to act like normal
		people without faking stupid accents.
	Brandon Lee is definitely not emasculated.
	The movie recalls the Tiananmen massacre, helping to keep the
		issue in the public eye.
Besides, watching violence on screen can be cathartic, thus leading to
a more peaceful, harmonious personality.  (:-))  And the fight scenes
are very well choreographed.
						--Alan Hu


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 03:14:37 GMT

In article <BuHu4I.2pn@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>...
>["Rapid Fire" being too violent]

I detest movies like "Rapid Fire", where the the only theme seems
to be how fast a person can do Kung-Fu chops with eggrolls.

>...
>I saw
>*The Wash* in Manhattan NY, so it's quite possible that movie did not make
>widespread distribution.  Where else have people seen this one?

_Great_ movie.  I saw it 1.5 times on PBS.

It is one of the most touching and heartbreaking movies with a
predominantly Oriental-American cast.

By the way, a Japanese-American is one of the producers of "Cheers".
Her last name is "Fukuto", I think.

>...
>>But take heart, I did see a lot of Asians come out to see The Last
>>Emporer and Rhasody in August.
>
>Hated the former; never heard of the latter.  But that's just *my* opinon.

Everyone should see "Raise the Red Latter" and _learn_ from it.
It says a lot about a certain culture in a Neanderthal-like
nation in Asia; what it says still applies, in many respects, to
todays incarnation of that culture.  *ugh*

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                 Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3 | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Please educate this man
Date: 8 Sep 92 03:10:49 GMT
	<SHAW.92Sep7191301@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu>
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
   > mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:

      The one advantage of the Newt Gingrich point of view is that you have
      answers to all of these questions, based on the belief that "Western"
      values are intrinsically correct.  

   Well Mark, you bring up a real problem, but you are wrong if you think that
   Newt Gingrich has some sort of answer to these problems: Gingrich's answer
   is basically a non-answer, and nothing more than more of the same old
   cultural imperialism.  [extended discussion deleted]

The people who have responded to my article seem to be missing my
point on this issue, and I think that I may have been too subtle about
it.  I'm not advocating the Newt Gingrich point of view just because I
point out one "advantage" of it.  I'm simply observing that Newt
doesn't have to waste time and energy agonizing over the "right"
choice, giving him more time and energy to foist his view of the world
on us.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: "Rasie the Red Lattern"  was Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:05:10 GMT

In article <b8s-YV#@engin.umich.edu> Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu> writes:
>Actually, I took it as a story about a woman who wanted to be "somebody"
>and tried to accomplish it through marriage to a rich person (remember,
>she dropped out of college).  She went insane because she could not cope
>with the results of her actions (maid and third wife dying), not because
>some Neanderthal-like culture drove her to it.  Yes, the film was set in 
>traditional Chinese culture, where wives are killed for cheating on the
>husband, but that happens everywhere (even here in the USA).  But that was 
>a plot device.  The same story line could have happen in Italian, Indian, 
>German, Mexican, or even American culture, in still have the same meaning.  
>The culture that the story is told in supports, but is still irrelevant to
>the story itself.  Taking this film as a comment on the Chinese culture 
>is really, well, ignorant.

Damn right!  The popularity of this film in the Western world is
evidence that the MAIN ideas of the film contains elements which
say something about the HUMAN condition and is not specific to
Chinese culture.  If THAT was ALL it was about, the film would
not be so popular.

TOYMWYA
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:35:33 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <SHAW.92Sep7140517@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>Weird Joe -- perhaps you'd like to cite your sources for these statistics.

I seemed to remember them from a seminar on Chinese-Americans I took I
long time ago.  However, since the other Joe (Joe Huang) has personal
experience contradicting that I remembered, I defer to his information
and retract my statements.

>PS: I don't doubt that your attitudes would be unusual among very new
>immigrants, but they are kind of naive considering that you're second
>generation.

Why are they naive?




Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 05:49:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.001237.23895@mumbo.apple.com> tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
>>But who in life is not defined in part by other people.  No one.  Only
>>a fool can shrug off the opinions of others as ultimately insignificant.
>
>Sigh.  What a fool I have been!

A fool?  Perhaps.  Self-deluded?  Surely.

Gary, do you *really* believe you've never listened to anybody else's opinion?
Not in your entire life?  You live in a vacuum, right?

When you were younger and your parents told you to modify some behavior (any
behavior, all kids do things wrong at some point), you must have looked at
them coldly, shrugged inside, said, "Their opinions, like those of all others,
are quite insignificant to me," and then kept right on doing the behavior that
was offensive to them.  That so?

Have you ever gone to some function where you originally thought you should
have dressed some way, and then was told by the person in charge of the
function that another type of attire was appropriate?  So what did you do?
Of course!  You dressed in the manner you originally thought was correct,
the other person's opinion be damned.  After all, they're only in charge of
the function; what the heck do they know?

He he he.

Oh, and before you go off in your usual sarcastic tangent about how you were
talking only about not letting yourself be defined by racism from others,
take a look again at John's statement above to which you responded.  It's a
rather general statement, no?

Geez, first there's Joe thinking he's somehow part of the "power elite,"
then it's you believing you've never, ever modified a behavior or anything
else as the result of somebody else's opinion.

Jim
From: frank@owlnet.rice.edu (Frank T. Kang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Date: 14 Sep 1992 17:06:18 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <BuJvzJ.AIE@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>
>Never worked that way with me.  When I saw *Die Hard* or similr movies, I
>often end up shouting obsceneties at the characters I don't like (which is
>usually most of them).  Then I end up having to drive home, already
>angered by what's happened on screen, so I'm generally a menace to other
>drivers.

So you're the maniac I ran into the other day! ;-)

Frank
frank@owlnet.rice.edu
From: tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Date: 10 Sep 92 06:13:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Raoul Duke School of Pharmacology and Journalism

In article <1992Sep9.054921.28556@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.001237.23895@mumbo.apple.com> tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
>>>But who in life is not defined in part by other people.  No one.  Only
>>>a fool can shrug off the opinions of others as ultimately insignificant.
>>
>>Sigh.  What a fool I have been!
>
>A fool?  Perhaps.  Self-deluded?  Surely.

Indubitably.

>Gary, do you *really* believe you've never listened to anybody else's opinion?
>Not in your entire life?  You live in a vacuum, right?

kawakami's claim is not of action, but of rightness.  That we are all
fools sometimes, that all of us sin, that none of us are gods, are givens.
That we give credence to the opinions of others does not somehow sanctify 
the act.  

James, I am offended.  I had hoped we had reached a point in our 
relationship where you will not try to shift the point of argument.
Guess not.  Sigh.

    Through me many long dumb voices,
    Voices of the interminable generations of prisoners and slaves,
    Voices of the diseased and despairing and of thiefs and dwarfs,
    Voices of cycles of preparation and accretion,
    And of the threads that connect the stars, and of wombs and of the
	father-stuff,
    And of the rights of them the others are down upon,
    Of the deformed, trivial, flat, foolish, despised,
    Fog in the air, beetles rolling balls of dung.

    Through me forbidden voices,
    Voices of sexes and lusts, voices veiled and I remove the veil,
    Voices indecent by me clarified and transfigured.

    I do not press my fingers across my mouth,
    I keep as delicate around the bowels as around the head and heart,
    Copulation is no more rank to me than death is.

    I believe in the flesh and the appetites,
    Seeing, hearing, feeling, are miracles, and each part and tag of me 
	is a miracle.

    Divine am I inside and out, and I make holy whatever I touch or am 
	touched from,
    The scent of these armpits aroma finer than prayer,
    This head more than churches, bibles, and all the creeds.

    I am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable,
    I sound my barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world.

"Song of Myself" is appropriate here, don't you think?

>Oh, and before you go off in your usual sarcastic tangent ...

Oh no.  I will attempt no such thing.  I have discovered a bit ago
that sarcasm is wasted here. 

-- 
Gary Tse, tse@Apple.COM		"The fascination of what's difficult",
(408) 862-5452  		    The wish to do what one's not done before,
				Is the proper card to show at Heaven's door.
From: nina@panix.com (Nina Yuan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Clinton and Foreigners
Date: 13 Sep 92 00:11:33 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1992Sep12.193217.22974@usl.edu> pssres12@ucs.usl.edu (Vignes Gerard M) writes:

>	Bill Clinton promises
>	to take America back for Americans.

>	It shouldn't be too hard
>	to figure out who he considers to be "Americans,"
>	and who he wants to "take it back" from.

I'm afraid Pat Buchannan's "speech" at the Republican National Convention
and George Bush's implicit endorsement of it, frightened me more than 
anything Bill Clinton has said.  At the risk of turning this thread into
something from alt.politics though, I'd be interested in hearing specifics
of what Clinton has said on this issue.

-nhy

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nina H. Yuan
Harvard College             Panix -- Public Access Unix & Internet of NYC
yuan1@husc.harvard.edu      nina@panix.com
From: luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: labour day
Date: 7 Sep 92 17:16:45 GMT


Does anyone know why the labour day in US is on Sept, instead of on May 1?
Pardon me if it is a stupid question...couldn't fall asleep last night.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Re: Ignorance on airlines
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:30:50 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.212354.11575@tamsun.tamu.edu> achin@math.tamu.edu writes:
>Has anyone else observed that the general ignorance of the existence of
>AA's is especially prevalent in the travel industry?  Following on the
>"Do you speak English" incident going through passport control in Houston
>last summer, this summer while waiting on board for the continuation of a
>domestic American Airlines flight through DFW, I was asked by a flight
>attendant, "Where are you going?  Tokyo?"  On another flight, an attendant
>switched from her usual lunch-service patter of "Would you like chicken or 
>pasta?" to ask me "You like eat?"
>
>I love to fly, and it shows.  :-(
>---
>Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843

Andrew, ever consider boycotting AA?  I think they are little bit
arrogant.  They are price fixing trying to drive out smaller
competitors.  Imagine few years from now when you have no choice but
flying only AA and  United (ready to spend big $$$ flying).

Anyway when I lived in Texas, I used Continental a lot.  I have never
experienced any anoyances like what you described.  In fact I did notice
that Continental uses AAmerican flight attendants.

-Dan


--
| lam@popeye.comm.mot.com  __o     |                                          |
| danl@comm.mot.com      _`\<,_    |
| Chicago, Il           (*)/ (*)   |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: shin@duck.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Subject: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:15:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.230325.4375@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>Many aspects of Chinese-cu culture are irreconciliable with Western
>culture.  For example, the brutal disposition of Chinese parenting
>techniques (like the strangulation of female infants, for example) is
>irreconciliable with Western compassion and understanding.

Since my purpose is to feed this liar, here's another irreconcilable 
cultural difference: marriage between cousins is not prohibited by law 
in certain parts of D.Joe's favorite Western country, the U.S.A.  Yes,
that goes beyond any compassionated understanding of Chinese culture,
I think.
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 6 Sep 92 00:50:00 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Sep2.123638.7458@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>  My point is that as long as you let people think that you're not
>  a full-fledged American, they won't think you have a vested interest
>  in this country.  

I've never really run into that problem.  Anyway, if "full-fledged
American" means "not Chinese," then what's the point of being a
"full-fledged American."

>  However if you "hide" behind, "Oh guys, I'm not AA, I'm Chinese."  

I'm not saying that.  I'm saying, "I'm Chinese, you guys figure out if
I'm AA or not, and let me know."  Why is it so important what I
consider myself as?  I am who I am.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: wkg0258@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Wakako  Kusumoto)
Subject: Re: "Rasie the Red Lattern" was Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:32:26 GMT

Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu> writes:

>In article <1992Sep13.031437.27437@leland.Stanford.EDU> Dwight Joe,
>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU writes:
>>
>>Everyone should see "Raise the Red Latter" and _learn_ from it.
>>It says a lot about a certain culture in a Neanderthal-like
>>nation in Asia; what it says still applies, in many respects, to
>>todays incarnation of that culture.  *ugh*
>>

>Slight correction:  "Raise the Red Lattern"

Minor correction:  "Raise the Red Lantern"