From: price@linus.serum.kodak.com (Kevin Price (x37128))
Subject: SUMMARY Re: DOS interface tools (windows,menus), C++ preferred
Reply-To: price@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:21:49 GMT


I was looking for some basic DOS text-based interface tools.  I only needed
some basic stuff and wanted recommendations for or against cheap or free 
stuff.  I can't just scan archives because I don't have ftp access.  Also,
our mailer mangles our return addresses so I can't use the email server as
suggested by two responders.

Response was less than overwhelming.  A few suggestions for TurboVision
(I'm using BC++).  Unfortunately, I don't have it and it would cost too much
to purchase separately ($100).  One person mentioned a SIMTEL package called
TCXL which he had used but was planning to switch.  I couldn't get my 
archive to unpack properly, so I haven't fully checked it out.  It seems
pretty extensive, and is $50 shareware.  Also at SIMTEL is DFLAT (collected 
from Dr Dobb's Journal), and PCWIN-C  Both seem to be freeware.  Based on
my cursory overview, PCWIN-C seems more extensive, and comes with more docu-
mentation.  However, I believe documentation for DFLAT can be found from
the relevant issues (about 10-15 of them I think) of Dr Dobb's Journal, which
can also be obtained at SIMTEL.

I'm sure there must be more packages out there.  I'm still interested in
more pointers or recommendations if any one has any info.  Below are all
the responses I got.


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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 09:29:57 MST
Subject: Re: WANTED: DOS interface tools (windows,menus), C++ preferred
  

Could you forward your summary to me?  I'd really appreciate it.  I've
been looking at the commercial end of things in this area, and so far
I've evaluated the following products:
 
        zApp
        Mewel
        Vitamin C
        SUIT (not commercial)
        Zinc
        TCXL
 
Some are C, some C++.
 
TCXL is shareware.  I've been with them a long time, but I'm about to
drop them in favor of something else.  They took way too long to get
the last upgrade to their library out.  Then, when they did, I took
the better part of a day to recompile my libraries, and almost all of
the demo apps they shipped would crash my machine.  Grr.  Too bad--I
like to support small business, but it looks like I'm going to have to
go somewhere else.

For programs that don't need total CUA-compliance and no mouse
support, I may stick with v5.52 of their libs, or v6.10 without their
"TCXLUI" component.  The EXEs are decently sized and form entry
support is excellent.  I'm just trying to make our in-house apps look
good and not so...primitive.

I rejected the above for the reasons below, but not all of the above
libraries had these problems.  I just don't remember which had what.

        Libraries too expensive/no source code
        Executables too big.
        Executables tacked resource info onto the .EXE, thus rendering
          programs like PK-LITE unusable.
        Demo programs crashed.
        Non-CUA compliant interface.
        Not enough user feedback (i.e. mouse click on button caused
                                  something to happen right away, instead
                                  of providing a highlighted button display
                                  and allowing user to move mouse off button
                                  in case he/she changed his/her mind.)
        Quirky UI elements (spinbuttons that don't work intuitively, etc.)

I have the unique requirement that my exes should fit on a 360K
diskette with room to spare for datafiles.  Frustrating, huh?

Hope I provided some useful info.  I look forward to your summary.

------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 10:37:22 -0600
Subject: Re: WANTED: DOS interface tools (windows,menus), C++ preferred


Well, you might be interested in the following if you have email access:
 
[..]
 
13) How to FTP by email.
 
There are a number of sites that archive the Usenet sources newsgroups
and make them available via an email query system.  You send a message
to an automated server saying something like "send comp.sources.unix/fbm",
and a few hours or days later you get the file in the mail.
 
In addition, there is at least one FTP-by-mail server.  Send mail to
ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com saying "help" and it will tell you how to use
it.  Note that this service has at times been turned off due to abuse.
 
[..]

As mentioned above, if you can not ftp directly, you can
use one  of the mail servers mentioned above to ftp.  In addition, there
are archie mail servers as well.  A whole host of services are available;
you may wish to look in the group alt.internet.services for more, and
ask your site administrator for more information.  Also, a good
book to read is _Zen_and_the_Art_of_Internet_, which is available
for ftp, though I'd have to look it up to tell you where.

However, you might not be able to accept ftp via email, depending
on your situation.  But maybe you will find this useful.



Well, if you're going to be using BC++ 3.0, what about Turbo Vision?
It comes free with your $500+ compiler :) and fits all of your
specifications (I'm not sure about the 50 line VGA, but I'm pretty
sure it does.)

Unfortunately, all apps created using the TV framework are an ungodly
size.  Just a hello window can be 100k; you may wish to optimize for
size rather than speed.

All of the other criterion are satisfied.  Plus, there's lots of
example code, and I'm sure that you can find a lot of other TV
programmers on the net if you get stuck.  The one bad thing about
TV is that the underlying parts are complex; and sometimes it is
necessary to know what it is doing and how.

------------
Subject: Re: WANTED: DOS interface tools (windows,menus), C++ preferred
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:05:08 GMT


Borland C++ 3.1 comes with Turbo Vision which is exactly what you want. Do 
you not have an upgrade available? Our bookstore sells educational versions 
for $125...I would imagine you could get one at your local educational 
institution if you find a student to ID you into the store...

------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 14:45:05 EST
To: price@clpd.KODAK.COM
Subject: Re: WANTED: DOS interface tools (windows,menus), C++ preferred


You've probably looked at this and decided against, but you should probably
consider BC++ TurboVision.  It has all the your requirements except
for price.   And I don't know the price, as I got mine with BC++ 3.0.

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-- 
-Kevin Price		price@serum.kodak.com             
                                                          
 (please use the address above ^   The mailer may call me 
  nobody@kodak.com, but IMHO, I am not.)                  
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.programmer