HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:53:09 GMT

>
>>The danger is that the U.S. is behind all the TI deal. And DDP might
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^      ^^^
                                                             DPP
DPP stands for Democratic Progress Party not DDP.
So, choose DPP, the democracy will progress. Just like this election.

>>concel it's real intention until seizing power on the issue of TI.
>
>Please cite evidence, or otherwise your paranoia is not going to convince
>anyone.
>
>The United States supports democracy (or at least it says so); that is why
>it supported (but again, only lip service, IMO) Lithuanian independence, for
>example, because that is the will of the people.

Even so, isn't it better to be backed by U.S. than CCP ?
After all, many people think Taiwan is so 'small' not to be able to stand
up by itself. So, many go for CCP, but I would rather choose U.S. don't you
think so ?

Yi-Chieh
From: An-Ly Yao <anlyyao@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Date: 26 Dec 92 08:40 PST
Subject: Re: Korean product boycott in Taiwan
Nf-ID: #R:1992Dec24.193209.10976@news.acns:1058480269:cdp:1474900024:000:1941
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!anlyyao    Dec 26 08:40:00 1992


To my knowledge there is no real boycott of Korean products in Taiwan.
But Wen-Chun Ni has a point insofar, as the import of Korean products was
supported by Taiwan not so much because of their quality, but as a kind of
friendship bonus to the last "friends" in Asia. These are gone now, so Korean
products only are bought now in those cases, where they have a competitive
edge over other products offered in the Taiwanese market.

Due to the still unusually strong "protection" of the Korean market however,
Koreans are not used to face competition in a way, which enhances the quality
of Korean products. (Look at Trigem's trouble when Acer could enter the Korean
market - until the Korean Gouvernment intervened again.)

So a drop in exports of Korean products to Taiwan at best can be explained by
the exposure of Korean products to the "real world" of a more free market, as
you can find it in Taiwan.

Surely the PRC market has a bigger potential compared to Taiwan. But not only
Korea is discovering that fact. As long as the quality of Korean products
is not produced already for the Korean domestic market, Korea allways will
have - as she has now - difficulties to compete with the other "dragons".

Worse (for Korea): Taiwan not only exports goods to China, she also provides
know how. In my job I had do work with electronics engineers in Taiwan, Korea
and in the PRC. I got the feeling, that Korea will be exposed to a strong
competitive pressure not only from Taiwan, but also from the PRC.

Recently Kim Y.S. asked Taiwan to import more fruits to Taiwan. Looking at
the import procedures for Taiwanese fuits to Korea, that is a ridiculous
request. Besides: exporting fruits to Taiwan is like exporting sand to
Saudi Arabia.    Well, Korean peaches are really good, but in a subtropical
country like Taiwan there are so many more delicious things...

Goetz Kluge
Seoul 1992/12/26
(using the email access of my wife, An-Ly Yao)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee)
Subject: Endangered species
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:03:36 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin

Recently, animal right activists accused Taiwan for importing horns of
African rhinoceros. Further back, Taiwan was also blamed for importing
the penis cut from Tiger. Obviously, these are used for Chinese medicine
aimed at curing certain body deficiency or illness. People in Taiwan
must realize even with advanced living standard does not grant them with
the ability to abuse the earth resources. These are just a few examples
read from the newspaper. 

Interestingly, someone in Taiwan was also blamed by the animal right
activitist for raising Tigers in a ranch. Those tigers are neither used for
entertainment like for zoo or circus, nor for the breeding for the engangered
tiger species, but for Chinese medical purpose (I can't say Taiwanese medical
purpose, no U/I please 8-)).

Basically, I favor the approach that Taiwan should allow the breeding
of endangered species not for commercial purpose. Also, Taiwan can allow
the breeding of certain highly entertaining animals, like ostrich (or emu),
for the dude ranch. Because, I know in US some areas have emu ranch.
In Austin, the ranch for emu is selling emu eggs. The fertilized eggs
are calling for over one thousand dollars. The not fertilized ones are less
expensive, which are around five hundred dollars. Overall, the products
derived from emu are more expensive than gold.

Very lucrative business indeed.
-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ty Lee                                                                    */
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: clg1824@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Theresa )
Subject: email in Taiwan?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 04:46:13 GMT

Hi, my dear fellow friends in Taiwan
I would like to know about the situation that people use e-mail in Taiwan.
I would be appreciated your answer
Theresa

-- 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 20:52:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan1.011854.8226@zip.eecs.umich.edu> joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen) writes:
>In article <C05C0y.4BC@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>>>want the war, no Western country can talk us into one. If Taiwan's people
>>>decide to seek independence, it's by our own decision, not by others'.
>>>Why should Taiwan Independence have anything to do with Wetern Imperialism?
>>Not so! When I saw a TV show hosted by William Buckley Jr, on Fire Line with
>>major Taiwan officials: Foreign Minister, Gvt SpokesMan, and MandLand Cmmte Vice
>>director. I was astonished about how naive those officials are, how much
>>the capability Buckley posses to mainipulate them.
>
>[HaHaHa... Cough... HaHaHa... Cough...]
>
>Oh, please, please stop it. I can't take it anymore. ROC's policy-making
>officials manipulated by Buckley? So we Taiwanese need CCP's troop to save
>us from stupidity? HaHaHa...
>
>Thanks for providing such a good joke in this New Year Eve.
>
>Happy New Year.
>
>-- Chien-Chung Chen
It is unbelievable, unfortunately it is true. Just couple of clips from the
show:
   1. The conversation went on to the period when U.S. severed tie with
Taiwan. Qian Fu expressed that when Albanian had
a proposal in U.N. to give the China seat to PRC. Qian Fu went to Nixson for 
insurance that U.S. will not resist Albanian's proposal. He got the verbal
insurance. But finally U.S. did not use veto power to maitain Taiwan's seat.
Qian Fu went Nixson to ask why. Nixson said it was George Bush's(U.N
ambassador at the time) unauthorized personal decision, not the Nixson
administtration's decison. Qian Fu BElIEVED IT! Then Qian Fu continued taht
he latter on read a book wrotten by an U.S. official who served for Nixson 
which revealed that it was deliberate action to decieve Taiwan from U.S.
genuine
intension with regard to the voting. One the show Qian Fu expressed his
surprise and sadness. He is not a untrained layman, he had a Ph.D on America
study. how could a nation have those kind gullable people to be a foreign
minister, He is not qualified to be a diplomats. How it not let me think
some thing wrong with Taiwan's phylosophcal flow in dealing with international
issue, where vicious competetion grante any means for the interests of a
nation.
The show stuck in silence, three U.S. participantes seems embarrassed. Mr.
Buckley started to talk about Taiwan economic miracle, to turn the mode 
around. your foreign minister has not sensitivity in conversation. interrupted
Mr. Buckley, started talk about "hard woooooking". Then Mr.Buckley pointed
out U.S.'s help with this regard.Qian Fu had now response.
From: tsen+@cs.cmu.edu (Chung Kang Tsen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Ignore this message...
Date: 30 Dec 92 13:31:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C02qwr.AoI.1
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

It's just a test.
From: mlin@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Mark Y. Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: telnet site
Date: 26 Dec 92 23:15:48 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles


  Can anyone give me a telnet site in Orange County?
   Maybe from CSULB or CSFulleton?
   I am trying to do my home work here at home and
   I don't awant to dial long distance.......
   I have a modem and I am looking for a site where
   I can telnet to my UCLA class acount......

   I know this may not look too culture but I figured
   it's a Chinese culturethat students help each other
   out when it's free..... right?
   thanks for any help.
 

-- 

           *****************    John 3 : 16    *******************

 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: China(was More than 50% support TI)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 00:28:20 GMT

In article <C08u0A.6ED@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:

>          I do  not see that way. Only twice "barbarians" secessfully invaded
>      China, which both happened after gun power, and litht cavalry force was
>     used(Yuan, Qing).

Although I don't agree with Eric Law's argument, you're forgetting *a lot*
of history.  The Period of the Five Hu's.  The North/South Dynasties.  The
Five Dynasties.  Liao.  Jin.  In some senses, even Qin (the one that lasted
only 15 years) was a barbaric invasion.

>  China possesedd(stil does) richest land in the world, numerous population

I am sure that the farmers in the Great Plains will have something to say
about that.  The Ukrainian plains (when weather/political situations
permitting) are probably more fertile than the North China plains as well.

>could live on the land. When ever outsiders intruded in, they will be overwelmed the population(dissolved), it did not have any thing to do with Confusianism.

China is never known for having all fertile lands; otherwise, there wouldn't
have been so many famines in history.  (I have a feeling that you don't know
enough history.)

>   People(Westeners, and their Chinese-converts) tend to demean  China's
>ancient violence, or diseas, or famine. It shoudl be put this way in ancient
>time in absence of birth control method, low level populathion indicated not
>that less birth rate, but high infant motality rate, and low life expantacy
>for other parts of the world, people die young there from lack of food,
>diseas, animal's eating, etc. It was a bless in ancient times that Chinese can
>be killed by War during short period of chaos comparing other parts of the
>world, where most people could not live long enough to join the battle.

Hah.  Go back and read your history books.  The mourning about deaths in
history is *not* an Western import; it had existed in traditional Chinese
historiography for a long, long time.

>   Actually morden time, the most violent palce on earth is West Europe, if
>you count number of people got killed per square miles.

Actually, no.  The most violent place on earth was Cambodia, under the Khmer
Rouge.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: lws@eembox.ncku.edu.tw (WenHsiang Lin)
Subject: Re: We Taiwanese have won this election
Organization: National Cheng Kung University
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 22:01:08 GMT

In article <92358.010449IO11043@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Robert Pan <IO11043@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:

>In article <23DEC92.11342497@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw>, u333057@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw
>says:
>>
>>    The general legislature election had been ended last Saturday(19/12).The  i
>>Ta
>>wan ruling party KMT lost this election.The Democracy Progress Party(DPP)won
>>this election.102 new legislators are KMT's,50 new legislators are DPP's,9 are
>>other party's or no party.
>>    Although KMT is still the ruling party,but they(KMT)lost many of Taiwan
>>electorate's votes.About 31% votes are voted to DPP,DPP won the best votes &
>>seats in any election than before.They(DPP)have about 18 seats legislators
>>before this election ,but this increases to 50 seats for DPP!Because the
>>ruling
>>party KMT have many faults this year,so they got lower votes.It's a serious
>>warning for KMT.If the ruling party go on doing many things wrong,they will be
>>down & the ruling party will be changed.
>>    I think it's the real democrary.Which party is better,people will want
>>them
>>up.And if the ruling party is bad,couldn't satisfy us citizens,we'll let them
>>down & chang the ruling party.We could chose the ruling party by our own
>>votes.
>>No one(including govenment,ruling party,army force etc)could interfere our
>>choices.
>>    We Taiwanese have told all over the world that we could have good real
>>democracy on our own.We have the newest congress,& we'll chose our own
>>presiden
>>t by our own.
>>    When will you Chinese chose your own government by your own?
>>                               Tsao Yi-Wen(A university student in Taiwan)
>>                                          (Please forgive my poor English..)
>>
>So, those people who voted for KMT are Chinese, and those who voted for
>DPP are Taiwanese? If it's not false, then Chinese have chosen their own
>government at least in Taiwan :-).
>===================================
>Robert Pan               Telephone: (207) 581-2298 Office
>                                    (207) 827-8823 Home
>1 Hayes St.               Internet: io11043@maine.maine.edu
>Old Town, ME 04468-1117    Bitnet: io11043@maine

    How funny was your reasoning? Did he say that DPP won the election?
In fact, DPP didn't win the election, but it's still an achievement for DDP.
KMT won the election, although the election brought a great disappointment
to the ruling party. Why should you stick to say "Chinese have chosen their
own government at leat in Taiwan", while everyone knows that Taiwanese refers
to the people living in Taiwan?

WenHsiang Lin
From: yang@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Der-Shung Yang)
Subject: Re: HATE EACH OTHER ? TIME FOR TIAWAN INDEPENDENCE
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:51:10 GMT

ericlaw@vax.cns.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:

>In article <1992Dec20.004414.14418@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>> 
>>>> To advocate for the *right* to independence is not the same as advocating
>>>> independence.  Just like to advocate for the *right* to abortion is not the
>>>> same as advocating abortion.

Totally agree.  

>	** Something in the world should be black and white.
>	   White is good and black is bad.

These "black-and-white" things only happened in movies like "Batman."
This world is not that simple!  Who said that "white is good and black
is bad?"  After all, who determined what is good and what is bad?

>	   You can not support good and at the same time support
>	   the "right of the bad". Bad thing has no right of anything.

Why not?  This is exactly how a democratic society should work.  You strive 
for the things that you considered as "good," and at the same time, respect 
others' right for having different value systems than yours.

>	   Your principle applies well to gray things.
>	   HOWEVER, you have to know: NOT EVERYTHING IN THIS WORLD
>	   IS GRAY.

But MOST are, such as the issues of TI and abortion. 

--
DerShung Yang    
yang@cs.uiuc.edu 
Beckman Institute
Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:26:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.211918.3032@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>
>In article <1992Dec30.170251.7359@cbnews.cb.att.com>, liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes...
>> 
>>They don't say it not necessarily means they won't do it. Right? China never
>>said it will use force if HK keeps the same pace toward democracy as now.
>>"6 hours" is just a rumour. We are not dealing with a democratic government.
>>Anything is possible. It doesn't matter we are going for independence or
>>unification. We still need to prepare for a possible war.
>
>Certainly anything is possible, I never say we should not prepare for a 
>possible war but we have to take cost versus benefit into account. 
How much can you prepare? If there is going to be War across the Straight, it
will not be a little one. For China side, Westen intervention should be
considered. It will not be a civil War, it is going to be another battle
between East and West civilization. The force in Taiwan itself will not play
a major role in the future military confrontation, at least China will think
that Way. 
You know, We mainlanders are no longer Confusious_moralist_whimpy_monks. Past
history of China taught us not to have any illusions in dealing with the
West.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: wwang@iastate.edu (Wen-Ping Wang)
Subject: Re: NEWS RE: RECENT ELECTION IN TAIWAN 
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 10:25:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.174238.481@colorado.edu> huangp@ralphie.Colorado.EDU (Pei-yu Huang) writes:
>
>Forwarded by: Liu Jian
>Source: AP-DJ, 1/1/1993
>
>TAIPEI -- An election official was arrested in eastern Taiwan Friday for
>allegedly stuffing a batch of extra ballots in a ballot box during last
>month's legislative elections, a prosecutor said.
>
........................
>
>Election officials said a re-election will be held in the districts where
>vote-rigging was found to determine if Wei or Huang wins.
>
>

According to the TV news I saw the other day, Huang Hsin-chieh has
refused to re-enter the race since the re-election in those districts
only matters to both Huang and Wei. This is sort of unfair to Huang
since the other KMT candidate Hsieh has been officially elected (
because his votes are well ahead of those two ), KMT will in no doubt
organize all their votes for Wei, which originally might belong to Hsieh.

W.P. Wang


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ychen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Yung-Chin Chen)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: /homes/ychen/.organization
	<1992Dec20.210517.29857@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
	<BzKwGA.3Ht@ulowell.ulowell.edu> <1ha24sINNk3@pollux.usc.edu>
	<Bzq28F.15x@cs.uiuc.edu>
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:51:12

In article <Bzq28F.15x@cs.uiuc.edu> yang@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Der-Shung Yang) writes:

   Is "One China, One Taiwan" equivelent to TI?  I think the idea of "One China, 
   One Taiwan" is more moderate than TI.  I guess you can say that most people
   in Taiwan do not want to reunify with China.  However, it's not the same as
   saying that most people in Taiwan support TI.

I would call "One China, One Taiwan" as IT (independent Taiwan). No
matter what it is, TI or IT, from CCP's point of view (and Mr. Hau),
they are all TI and they cannot be tolerated.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Question about ROC's government structure
Reply-To: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:32:12 GMT

Executive
Judicial
Legislative
Examination-Civil service exams
Investigative-Check up on everyone


********************************************************************
*Peter Wung			Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory	Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering	    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology			    	   *
*Atlanta, Georgia						   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...					   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy. 	   *
*								   *
********************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao)
Subject: Re: n
Organization: AT&T Bell Lab
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:52:03 GMT

From article <1992Dec31.165234.8731@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, by tujf@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Jay F. Tu):
> Chunde Shi threatened again to have a war against Taiwan.  And this time
> the war will be world war as he said "It will not be a Civil War, it     
> is going to be another battle between East and West civilization."
> I posted before he should apologize for his life threats to my family
> , friends, and all country men in Taiwan.  He didn't.  I, therefore,
> claim he is a terrorist, spreading hate words in this net.
> I also wish Republic of Mogolia good luck, because Chunde Shi will
> also declare war against them if they don't abandon their independence
> . 
> 
> Tu
> 

Another important thing is "Is Shi a special case among Chinese or
he/she represents one of the China's view of Taiwan?" I would say
the latter is quite possible. The fact is we are dealing with a country
that some (or most?) of whose people never respect Taiwan.

Will we become second class citizen after unification? Do China respect
Hong Kong? To me, they treat it like "yet another colony" at least now.

Heng-Hsin

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: AT&T Bell Lab
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:34:14 GMT

From article <1992Dec31.172515.29414@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, by li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li):
> 
> I think "Two Chinas" will be easier than "Republic of Taiwan" to be accepted. 
> If this is the case, do you have problem accepting "Two China"?
> 

A famous sentence in Taiwan politics: "Not quite satisfied but acceptable."
:)

Why not quite satisfied? If "two China" is easier, why we need to invent
a different name every time we try another international organization?
Why not use ROC all the time? ROC inherently has some problem. However,
I would have no problem with "pragmatic Two China" if that would be the
case.

Heng-Hsin

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: AT&T Bell Lab
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:36:02 GMT

From article <2B4345DA.16640@news.service.uci.edu>, by tao@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Eric Yihching Tao):
> 
> Let me just humblly re-iterate the line, Independence won't get us back to
> UN. again,
> 
> Independence *won't* get us back to UN!!!
> 
> I don't understand why some people fail to recognize this unfortunate fact.
> The better way? Actually it is happening now, people from Taiwan (among other
> places) are investing in mainland china. Sooner or later (sooner I hope), a
> sizable middle class will be established in mainland, then demacracy won't
> be too far away, till then, most of the problem memtioned above will say bye-bye.
> So, in addition to further developing Taiwan, help mainland to be prosperous
> and democratic, that is the buttom line of all these mess. According the 
> speed of progress in mainland, it won't be so far away. Mark my words,
> within 10 years, we will see a semi-democratic gov't in mainland.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 

Could you explain your argument again please? We never try it. How come it
is a fact? Am I missing something?

Correct me if I am wrong. I said we need to re-enter international society
and independence is a better reason and a better way toward that. Your
comment is that developing Taiwan and helping China should be a better
way for Taiwan to re-enter international society.

Why? Because Beijing would appreciate our help with a much more
friendly attitude? Or becuase the semi-democratic government will
listen to their middle-class people that letting Taiwan re-enter
international society is mutually beneficial?

Or your point is that the difference between both sides will be smaller
as time goes by. Unification will be achievable and Taiwan don't have to
worry about the reentrance issue because it will eventually be solved by
unification.

Heng-Hsin

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan