HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content
Date: 28 Aug 92 09:47:16 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization


In article <1992Aug25.193235.8584@ctr.columbia.edu>
StarWatcher@uiuc.edu writes:
>
> Even though it may be within BSA's rights to do so, I consider their
> dismissing gay or bi scout leaders reprehensible since it is
> discrimination based upon a person's private life.

If you found out that, in the privacy of my home, I bite off the heads
of chickens, would you not change your opinion of me?

-- 
 \   Charles Hannum, mycroft@ai.mit.edu
 /\  White heterosexual atheist male (WHAM) pride!
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl)
Subject: Re: Scouting paraphernalia in Australia, NZ
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 14:11:17 GMT
Keywords: australia, new zealand, pins, patches, store

In article <1992Aug31.170752.21657@stiatl.salestech.com> klb@stiatl.salestech.com (Kathy Ball) writes:
>My step-father (with no access to the Net) is a Scoutmaster
>(he lives and breathes Scouting).  He is planning
>a trip to Australia and New Zealand in Nov. and Dec., and would
>like to find a Scout store where he might find a pin
>or patch with some local Scout flavor.  He collects them.

Trip details deleted.....

We were in Australia in 1988 and happened on a scout shop in downtown
Melbourne.  They had many patches available.  I'd suggest that your
father simply check the local phone book for Sydney and he'll 
likely find a scout shop in the Sydney area.  If that fails, he 
might try contacting a local scout office in the Sydney area.

Odds are the same thing would work for NZ.

Your father might also want to write to BSA (USA) headquarters ahead
of time to get some names/addresses/phone numbers of the scouting
offices in Australia and NZ before he goes.
  If he did that now, there's
plenty of time for correspondence (but do have him send anything by
airmail).

Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!dancer!whs70
201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: eam@phx.mcd.mot.com (Ed Mohrman)
Subject: Ideas on Council Taskmaster Corp
Keywords: Camping  Taskmaster Corp
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 14:00:53 GMT

We in Theodore Roosevelt Council recently got a new head to our Council
Camping Committee. He is a "ball of fire" and looking to energize our 
camping program. I have been a Scoutmaster and not active in council affairs.
From this viewpoint as a "user" of the camps, it appears that under previous
leadership, the camping committee focused on delivering the traditional
summer camp experience, and supporting the facility for that program.
Now, I have been drafted into the Council camping committee to head up
the "Taskmaster Corp". I would appreciate any input on how this has been
made to work in other councils.

I am told that years ago, alot of camp upkeep and development was
done with volunteer labor from adult Scouters and friends. Development
became somewhat low quality and completion dates where unpredictable. So,
we have been using paid contractors for most development projects.

At the same time, our council camping program has been limited in scope.
We have had Scout Camp, Webelos Weekend, JLT, etc. But, we have had little
or nothing for older Scouts, little  high adventure, ...

The goal now is to reverse this trend. If we can improve our camp facilities
through more volunteerism and liberate more money to be used for more
camping programs (especially older boy programs), then it is a win for 
everyone.

We think we will have a Corp of Scouters and friends that are skilled tradesmen
who can do projects that require serious equipment and skills. We think
we will also have a Corp of Scouters and friends that are normal homeowner
types who can do simpler projects or be crew members under a tradesman.

Has this worked in your council? How well? How did you recruit Corp members?
What pitfalls did you hit?

Any input would be appreciated.

Ed Mohrman    Mgr - SW Engineering    | Usenet:    uunet!unisoft!mcdphx!eam
Motorola MCG/Core Technology M/S DW220| Internet:  eam@phx.mcd.mot.com





Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2760 alt.discrimination:4083 chi.general:933 alt.atheism:16367 alt.politics.homosexuality:5635
From: mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 28 Aug 92 09:39:46 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization


In article <p13sbq4@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
writes:
>
> For example, should a parent be able to teach a child that all
> african americans are animals and should not be allowed near their
> child?
>
> Should a parent be able to teach a child that all jews are stingy
> money grubbing conspirators and should not be allowed to be near
> their child?
>
> Should a parent be able to teach a child that asians are trying to
> take over america and corrupt their children and therefore should not
> be allowed near their child?

I was taught all of the above.  So what?  I have many black and asian
friends, and I'm currently dating a Jew.  Have my parents' rantings
affected me?  If so, barely.

You forget that bad examples are also useful.

Whether it is right or wrong, it is the generally accepted custom that
parents choose, at least to some extent, what stimuli their children
are exposed to.  Many factors determine this; among them are choice of
schools, choice of extra-curricular activities (which parents do
frequently have a say in), choice of churches (if applicable), curfew,
and others.

These choices help shape the child's personality.  They *cannot* be
avoided.  Someone must make decisions of the sort, and at an early age,
children are simply not capable of doing so.

> Should parents be allowed to teach their children hate?

This seems the entire basis of most organized religions, and is why I
deplore them.

> "my child is a boy scout, and I do not want him to know about
> homosexuality, therefore homosexuals should not be allowed to be boy
> scouts."

This is *not* what people are saying, from what I've heard.  The only
concern I've seen voiced is that they do not want their children
directly exposed to it.  They may be wrong in assuming that, given
sufficient opportunity, their children will experiment.  It is nearly
impossible to counter this argument, because it is *true*.

To be blunt, "knowing about" homosexuality does not require engaging in
it.

Whether the parent has the "right" to make this choice or not gets into
another topic completely--the subject of parental disgression.


For the record, I have been in both the BSA and the US military.  I am
still an atheist, and I still believe quite strongly that MAD is a poor
response to aggression.  I also recognize that both organizations have
*huge* benefits for their members, and that these often completely
outweigh any negative side effects.

-- 
 \   Charles Hannum, mycroft@ai.mit.edu
 /\  White heterosexual atheist male (WHAM) pride!
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: Okay, rec.scouting take two...
Date: 01 Sep 92 18:33:44 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug31.203509.27583@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> vkochend@nyx.cs.du.edu (vance kochenderfer) writes:
>     At the risk of adding yet another list of new group suggestions,
>I believe the best solution would be to create alt.bsa.policy as a
>home for the flame wars.  The charter of rec.scouting would remain
>unchanged, since it would then contain 1/10 of the traffic it now has.

      This is overly optimistic.  A good 75% of the BSA policy
articles posted to rec.scouting are also crossposted to half a
dozen other groups - adding alt.bsa.policy won't change the
amount of traffic at all.
      It does, however, amount to ghettoism, and an attempt to
silence ideas you aren't comfortable listening to by hiding
them elsewhere.
     Also, not everyone gets the alt hierarchy.


>If it seems necessary, rec.scouting.bsa could be created, but I think
>that won't be warranted, as long as we are frequently gently reminded
>that there is a world outside of North America...

     I will note the following:  In the earlier days of this
newsgroup, when the BSA discrimination threads first started,
several people from outside North America specifically asked
that the distribution on those articles remain worldwide.
I suppose that there are some people outside of the U.S. who
still have some interest in how scouting behaves in the rest
of the world.


>I pity those who lack kill files...

    In truth, I pity those who feel the need to use them...

					-Phil
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: choffman@adobe.com (Charles Hoffman)
Subject: BSA Advancement question
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:53:29 GMT

As a Weblos leader I approached one of the local troops we feed to request 
a Den Chief.  I was given a boy, an alumni of our pack, who I was told was
just about to receive his First Class rank.  This sounded fine.  My mind was
filled with the vision of a Second Class scout.  It turned out that although
the boy was as experienced as I had expected, he had not yet even earned the
Tenderfoot rank.  Upon questioning him, I discovered that his troop allows 
the boys to work on all three ranks at the same time.  Indeed this scout was
going to go from the Scout (is this a rank?) to First Class ranks without 
wearing any of the ranks in between.

Now I may be showing my age here, but how could this happen?
The Scoutmaster claims that this is per national guidelines.  Is this correct?

In the old days, there was a steady progression as the scouts ability to
handle skills and responsibility increased.
	Tenderfoot:  	BSA basics
	Second Class:	Hiking, basic first aid, basic cooking, etc.
	First Class:	Camping, woodslore, more first aid, etc.
	Star and above:	Advanced individualized skills

My Webelos have noticed that the Den Chief wears no rank after more than 
eighteen months as a Boy Scout.  They were quite daunted at his explaination.
They want to join his troop as of now, but this was a discouraging exchange.

Any suggestions would be helpful.  

Charles Hoffman, Webelos Den Leader, Asst. Cubmaster, Pack 603 
choffman@adobe.com
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2644 alt.discrimination:4026 chi.general:887 alt.atheism:16107 alt.politics.homosexuality:5576
From: omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:42:05 GMT
Organization: UB

Stan,
    I'd never thought I'd say this to anyone:  Welcome to my kill
file.  I've watched you espouse hate in every direction in the name of
christianity constantly.  You ignore whatever anyone says if you can't
defend it (you don't even try) and just rant and rant and rant.  You
are the most pitiful of scum.  Stan, go fucking die, people like you
make my stomach turn..  Welcome to a very exclusive club stan you
should like it it's just your style.

Off to find out how to build a kill file...
Have A Day
-Eftsne (Olu)
*Vox Domini*

******** ___________________________  All expressed opinions are mine unless
 * bi * | omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu |  otherwise noted..  (UB wouldn't have
  ****  | V117MG7B@acsu.buffalo.edu |   any opinions (besides popular ones)
   **    ---------------------------     anyway..)
Smurf these codes:
         *S8/3 b g+(+) l+(-) y/ z(-) n+ o+(+) x(+) a+ u(+) v(+) j+(+)*
                     *B0 f w cd g++! k(+) s- h- r p*
Good quote follows:
   "I believe that homophobia is equivalent to racism.  Prejudicial violence
     towards gays and lesbians is as irrational as hostility towards African
     Americans.  A bigot is a bigot."     		-L.S. Welch
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Heredity of homosexuality
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:29:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: m.1992Aug28.172944.14100
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

zeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Mark Gansle) writes:

[...]
>And therein lies the difference between racism and discrimination
>against homosexuals.  One is proven to be hereditary and so cannot be
>changed and is not a subject for ridicule.  The other seems very likely
>to be a personal choice, and like all personal choices, is subject to
>judgment.
[...]

So religion is an OK basis of discrimination?

But companies shouldn't discriminate on the basis on intelligence?

- Carl





--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 24 Aug 92 23:56:06 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug23.005815.15343@microsoft.com> johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall) writes:
>In article kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>| And now the challenge: Can you suggest a policy that would include the
>| BSA while excluding the KKK? 
>
>A prohibition on funding for groups that discriminated on the
>basis of race or advocated such.

     Would then, say, the Nazi party be eligible?  Or any other
hate group that discriminated on the basis of religion or
sexual orientation?  Why is race the only basis?

					-Phil
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: macman@bernina.ethz.ch (Danny Schwendener)
Subject: Okay, rec.scouting take two...
Organization: Peppermint Software Inc.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 21:42:03 GMT

tbjorkho@abo.fi (Tom Bj|rkholm AT) writes:

>> Could someone start a rec.scouting.policy

>How about starting a rec.scouting.BSA (which could be further
>divided).

I suggest splitting the group into rec.scouting.policy (which should
cover all national and international policies of the different scouting
associations) and rec.scouting.wisdom, where more "technical"
information can be exchanged. 

I set up rec.scouting and I'm willing to run the adminstrative procedure
for the split. However, I'll need the help of an english native to set
up the charter for the rec.scouting.policy newsgroup. I think that I can
write the charter for the wisdom group well enough.

Any volunteers?

-- Danny
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2700 alt.discrimination:4048 chi.general:903 alt.atheism:16233 alt.politics.homosexuality:5600
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:00:37 GMT
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL

In article <1992Aug28.233638.13617@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.030524.11674@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>>Unlike legitimate minorities, a person's sexual
>>behavior, as well as such other anti-societal behavior such as
>>commune living, drug usage, or religious cult membership, is a
>>person's choice.  A person whose ancestors are from Japan or
>>Africa didn't have a choice.
>
>It's true that homosexual behavior is a choice.  To practice Judaism is also a
>choice.  Is it therefore OK to exclude people who practice Judaism?

It is no longer clear that sexual preference is purely choice.  Research,
including studies of twins seperated at an early age, is now indicating
that sexual preference may be at least partially genetic.
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: johnw@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au (John Wanless)
Subject: Re: HELP- History of Scout Promise  
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Tasmania
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 23:27:41 GMT

In article <johnw.5.714204383@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au> johnw@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au (John Wanless) writes:
>From: johnw@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au (John Wanless)
>Subject: Re: HELP- History of Scout Promise  
>Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 06:06:23 GMT
>In article <johnw.3.713745387@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au> johnw@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au (John Wanless) writes:
>>From: johnw@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au (John Wanless)
>>Subject: HELP- History of Scout Promise  
>>Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:36:27 GMT
>>To fellow Scouters,
The history is something of a mystery still but here is more info on the  
Scout Laws  & Promise.
The Scout promise as we in Australia know it is as follows,
>On my honour,
>I promise that I will do my best,
>To do my duty to my God and
>To the Queen of Australia,
>To help other people,and
>To live by the Scout Law.

For those interested in the world wide differences in the Scout Laws here is 
our version,
1	A Scout is Trustworthy
2	A scout is Loyal
3	A Scout is Helpful
4	A Scout is Friendly
5 	A Scout is Cheerful
6	A Scout is Considerate
7	A Scout is Thrifty
8	A Scout is Courageous
9	A Scout is Respectful
10	A Scout cares for the Environment

All Units run mixed membership with the Scout Law and promise being the same 
for Scouts upwards while the Cubs have a simpler version of the Scout 
Law. Here are the age groups as we use them,
	Joeys 6-8yrs
	Cubs  8-10 yrs	
	Scouts 10-14 yrs
	Venturers 14-18 yrs
	Rovers 18-23 yrs
If anyone needs any more info please contact me direct,

John Wanless
Venturer Leader 
1st Blackmans Bay Scout Group
Hobart, Tasmania  Australia
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:03:54 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <5110@news.duke.edu>, infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew  Infante) writes:
> 
> Individuals who do _anything_ in the privacy of their own home, short of
> murder, rape, and other _hurtful_ crimes (and no, _homesexuality and 
> drug use is not hurtful_) is their _own_ business.


However, the point in all of this goes in another direction.
Whatever individuals do in the privacy of their home is their own bussines.
But, what we are talking here is not about keeping homosexuality in private,
which is waht is called "in the closet", but making it a public matter.
We are not talking here about the right to do whatever you want in the 
privacy of your home, but the right to do something in public without losing
your other rights.
We are talking here about homosexuals being able to holD hands or kiss in 
public, or about marriage, which is a public contract. 
That is the point: to be able to be homosexual in their public life as
they are in their private like.
Besides, to be an homosexual, and I am gessing here, is something more than 
"doing" something in the privacy of your home. It is like saying: having sex
with a person of your same sex is "being homosexual". I guess that being 
homosexual is that: Being homosexual, which is a lot more of whatever an 
homosexual does in the privacy of his/her home. And that confusion: Being an 
homosexual is "doing" some particular things, is the root of the problem here.

So, the argument about privacy is the same as keeping the subject in the closet,
making it a public matter is the point.

AAP
 




> 
> Selling drugs, or for that matter, yourself, out of your home, especially
> in a neighborhood where _FAMILY VALUES_ are of the utmost importance, 
> could be construed as hurtful.
> 
> BTW, did anyone see the polls out from CNN about the family values issue?
> 
> It seems that quite a few people actually believe in this crap.
> 
> wake up.
> family values means "believe what I believe and we'll all be happy"
> 
> fuck that.
> 
> later.
> 
> andy.
From: daveh@frackit.UUCP (Dave Hultberg)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Summary: United gets your tax dollars ....NOT!
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:58:23 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: Esoteric Tribble Factory, Harrisburg, PA

In article <1992Aug23.210258.12959@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> In article <1992Aug21.134007.17942@spdc.ti.com> achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach) writes:
> 
> >I don't understand the objection to any private group using any criteria 
> >whatsoever for membership. If you don't like it, don't support it, but
> >freedom for all includes freedom for those you loathe. As long as they 
> >aren't supported by your tax dollars.
> 
> BSA gets my tax dollars through the United Way.

How do you figure that your tax dollars are going to United Way?  At
least in this state they get there money from annual fund drives coupled
with voluntary payroll deductions from individual employees.  Please
tell which tax money, federal, state or local, is going to the United
Way and how it is being done.  



-- 
Private site: ka3uzr    |    Mechanicsburg, Pa.    |    Dave Hultberg
uunet!rutgers!psuvax1!eds1!wa3wbu!frackit!ka3uzr!daveh 
vogon1!wa3wbu!frackit!ka3uzr!daveh@psuvax1.psu.edu  
daveh@ka3uzr.uucp    -or-    ka3uzr!daveh@uunet.UU.NET
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2764 alt.atheism:16383
From: bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:16:14 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Aug28.094716.13262@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug25.193235.8584@ctr.columbia.edu>
>StarWatcher@uiuc.edu writes:
>>
>> Even though it may be within BSA's rights to do so, I consider their
>> dismissing gay or bi scout leaders reprehensible since it is
>> discrimination based upon a person's private life.
>
>If you found out that, in the privacy of my home, I bite off the heads
>of chickens, would you not change your opinion of me?
>
 

  Not really.  After all, with sufficient processing, I routinely 
  do far worse things to chickens than simply biting off their heads.

  However, if the chickens you allude to were live, I would almost
  certainly ask for a demonstration.  And what about choking? Could
  I also conclude that, in the privacy of your own home, you choke
  your chicken?

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 

Bob Beauchaine bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM 

"If I have to resurrect you, I'll resurrect you, whether you like it
or not!"
	 Paul to Jesus, _The_Last_Temptation_of_Christ_

"For dying is not to be feared--it is the final comfort.  As we all
learn, eventually."

  --Robert Heinlein