HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: For Thine is the kingdom
Date: 25 Jan 1993 17:44 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Jim Kasprzak writes...
> All right, I tripped up a bit here. It isn't said at the end of the Lord's 
>Prayer. But I could have sworn that _somewhere_ in the Catholic Mass that I
>remember going to (not so long ago that it was in Latin), there occurs the 
>line: "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever".
>Now, I know that r.a.b is just swarming with ex-, lapsed and recovered 
>Catholics, but is there anyone in here who's actually been to a Mass lately
>who could tell me that I wasn't hallucinating that part, and where exactly
>it occurs? 

+-----------------------------------SubG-----------------------------------+
Nope, you tripped up in admittin' defeat.  It IS toward the end of the
LAWD's prayer in the King James Version (Matthew 6:13), but some
authorities (i.e., the RSV) use the line, `And lead us not into temptation/
But deliver us from evil' or sometimes `...the evil one.'

This is echoed in several places, notably Jude 25 and Revelations 5:13,
although in the RSV `power' is often translated as `might.'

Checking the Greek, Tischendorf and Gebhardt prefer the RSV verbage, although
the phrase `the power and the glory' sounds a little more lyrical in the
original as `dunamis' and `doxa,' as good an indication as any that the
author of Matthew didn't write it.








A former
chaplain,
Yours etc.,



SubGenius
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Edukation
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:57:00 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1jjdp4INNobm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel) writes:
> 
> Well, I did say what I said. Nothing like dealing with "education
> types". I had just recieved a call from my daughter's school
> telling me that doing a book report on Orwell's 1984 was not was
> NOT appropriate. I told them that the same thing happened to me
> in the 7th grade (1962 or thereabouts). It's still up in the air.
>   History repeats itself. Akk akk!!
> -- 
> Ted....

At least they didn't deny any knowledge of you ever having had a
daughter...

Doubtless, some teacher is terrified that your daughter will
read _1984_ and learn something from it.  After all, how can
liberal ideology (e.g., Steve Pope's view of the proper role
of the state and parents) survive if too many people read
subversive books like _1984_?
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26301 talk.politics.soviet:10715 soc.culture.soviet:12393 soc.culture.jewish:26105
From: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU (Stephen Grossman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:46:18 GMT
Reply-To: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.

In article <1993Jan24.194335.19755@husc3.harvard.edu>, zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:
>
My point had to do *solely* with the fact that the 1921
>suppression of the Kronstadt rebellion represented a turning point in
>the Bolshevik politics, insofar as it amounted to a betrayal of their
>own self-professed credo of "all power to the soviets", in a way that
>neither the regicide nor the earlier instances of political terror did
>so.  >

S	reason is hierarchical so individual Marxist claims must be tracreed 
back to a basic claim, the dialectic. Within the dialectic, the derivative 
claims can be understood. "All power to the soviets" was dialectically valid 
for a specific phase of history. Then, dialectically, it was contradicted and 
transposed into the synthesis. Scholars may validly debate the specific turning 
points but not the intellectual need to contextualize them within the 
dialectic. I hope nobody claims that since dialectics is false, that 
"therefore" it cannot explain Soviet actions. Many people have been guided by 
falsehoods. Marxists are merely one such group. Lenin, Stalin, and Mao 
explicitly praised dialectics as the basic guide to communist revolution. The 
rest is merely application. And they still have missiles pointed at their class
enemies.
________________________________________________________________________________
	"In that world, you'll be able to rise in the morning with the spirit
you had known in your childhood: that spirit of eagerness, adventure and cer-
tainty which comes from dealing with a rational universe."
                                                              AYN RAND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Grossman <PMSC13SG@UMASSD.EDU>
================================================================================
From: younger@stsci.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: For Thine is the kingdom
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:30:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute

In article <d6n3qd#@rpi.edu>, kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak) writes:
> Now, I know that r.a.b is just swarming with ex-, lapsed and recovered 
> Catholics, but is there anyone in here who's actually been to a Mass lately

   Infested is perhaps a more appropriate word to use, particularly of the
 "recovered" variety.
                                    jwy
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Forcing the Spring 
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:53:22 GMT

> kate@cactus.org (Katherine M. Catmull) writes:
>Clinton talked about "forcing the spring" twice in his inauguration
>speech. I thought it was a very pretty phrase, and evocative
>of What Americans Do, or try to do, for good or evil. Two questions:
>
>1. Am I the only one who found the phrase pretty and evocative?

No.

>2. Is it a quote, or did our own new president make it up himself?

I read that this idea was suggested to Clinton by Timothy
Healy, the late President of the New York Public Library
(and former teacher of Clinton's at Georgetown U.).  Healy
died quite recently, but had put togther some notes for
Clinton's Inauguration speech before shuffling off this
mortal coil..
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: thomasd@tps.COM (Thomas W. Day)
Subject: Writer's Workshop
Organization: Telectronics Pacing Systems
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:21:33 GMT

Is there any such thing as net location that is primarily a writer's 
workshop?  I'm looking for a group to bounce story line and character ideas 
against.  And I'm looking for other writers to correspond with.  

Thanks,
Tom Day
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kasprj@operators.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: More sf babble 
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:11:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.173415.17994@wam.umd.edu>, sheilah@wam.umd.edu (Danny-Boy) writes:
|> 
|> I would like to see some suggestions for science fiction with original
|> ideas presented in a talented fashion. 
 
 As someone who's been immersed in science fiction, good and bad, for about
a decade and a half now, let me give my highest reccomendations to the works
of Stanislaw Lem. Start with _The Cyberiad_ and I can almost guarantee you'll
be hooked. 
 
 Some of the better titles:
 
 _The Cyberiad_ and _Mortal Engines_: philosophical discussions presented
as SF parable, starring the robotic constructors Trurl and Klapaucius.
 
 _The Star Diaries_ and _Memoirs of a Space Traveler_: the travels in space
and time of Ijon Tichy, who encounters many divers and thought-provoking 
situations therein.
 
 _Memoirs Found in a Bathtub_: a Kafkaesque post-apocalyptic tale (though
not the usual sort of apocalypse).
 
 _The Futurological Congress_: a look into the future, perhaps.

 I will add my standard caveat regarding translators: all of the above 
works were translated by Michael Kandel. He is the only translator who 
manages to make Lem come alive in English. I cannot be held responsible 
for your boredom if you try to read anything written by Lem and translated
by someone other than Kandel. (Not that they aren't worth reading, just 
that they're a chore to slog through.)
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| "And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start 
     \_|      To mold a new reality -- closer to the heart."
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell)
Subject: Re: Relative clauses (was: Re: About Truth...)
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:33:32 GMT

Michael Hayward writes:

	That first story is not apochryphal; it actually happened, but not
	among linguists. It was at a lecture delivered at Columbia by some
	philosophy professor, 

J.L. Austin, I believe.

	and the utterer of 'yeah, yeah' was the illustrious Syndney
	Morganbesser from the Columbia philosophy department--a man with a 
	(clearly well-deserved) reputation for a scintillating wit.

That sounds right.


-- 
Marko Amnell
amnell@klaava.helsinki.fi
From: jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Deconstructing Angelou
Summary: Dishonouring Eric Gill
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:43:24 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

In article <1jnqdgINN9hi@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

>The two clues were "of" not "in" the NYT and "remarked". The Tube.
>McNeill/Lehrer, I think. I don't read the NYT. It would dishonor my
>Godfather, the great typographer Eric Gill, to do so.

I don't want to insult anyones nearest and dearest here but wasn't Eric
Gill a little (how does one put this) sexually experimental and unorthodox?
In the sense of passing strangers, his wife's friends, his daughter, his dog
and so on. In this case just how does one dishonour him? Great typographer
though and more besides.

Joseph Askew

-- 
Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud  Barbarian horns draw out the northern wind;
jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu  Paler than water lies the Thistle Pass;
Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care  Sky swallows up the road to Kokonor;
One China One Korea One Eire32  Moonlight, a thousand miles along the Wall.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Buried Treasure -or- So, whaddaya use for bookmarks?
Organization: Clark University
Date: 25 JAN 93 02:39:46 GMT

The SubGenius mentions bookmarks.  For some reason I always throw away the
nice bookmarks I'm given by certain bookstores (Wordsworth in Cambridge and
Tatnuck here in Worcester, primarily) and the even nicer ones found in each
issue of Glimmer Train Magazine.  Instead I use important documents, such as
notepad sheets with precious phone numbers, and American Express bills that
disappear from sight and hence from mind until the dreaded Mr. Milo calls. 
I also use baseball cards.  People keep giving them to me, and it's about the
only way they can be functional.  Little cardboard Koosmans and Staubs and
Stearnses are scattered throughout my library.  A young and enigmatic Del
Unser, wearing a Washington Senators uniform, is in my copy of the Viking
portable Emerson.  My Nolan Ryan rookie card is doing duty in the middle of
_Birds Through a Ceiling of Alabaster_, marking the place of the poem by
Abdullah Ibn al-Mutazz that begins "Moving fast a girl came to me one
night/Hurrying to abscond from innocence".

>From his perch atop one of the volumes of Solzhenitsyn's _The Gulag
>Archipelago_ an inch-tall portrait of a bushy-eyebrow'd and mustache'd Sam
>Clements smirked at me.  

Gosh all hemlock, SubG!  That should be "Clemens", as in Roger.  Surely all
Texans know that name as well as their own!

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
From: levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Martin Gardner
Keywords: Gardner
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:20:13 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In <1993Jan27.100046.19850@husc3.harvard.edu>
   ndrose@husc9.harvard.edu (Nathan Rose) writes:
|Gardner is a mathematical writer and sometime litterateur. He used to write
|a column for Scientific American called "Mathematical Games". He's published
|some essays (Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener is the title I remember)
|explaining his views on God (Theist), Pragmatism (agin' it), Subjectivism
|(ditto), &c. He's also done a number of Annotated editions, e.g. The
|Annotated Alice, Chesterton's Fr Brown, Coleridge's Rime of the Ancient
|Mariner--rather offbeat but refreshingly no-nonsense.

The original question was about a novel.  I don't know the answer, but
I've seen short fiction that this Martin Gardner wrote; what comes to
mind are a couple of short science fiction stories based on topology.
I saw them in one or both of the Clifton Fadiman (sp?) anthologies,
FANTASIA MATHEMATICA and THE MATHEMATICAL MAGPIE.

	/JBL
=
Nets: levin@bbn.com  | "How does a mouse let me move the cursor anywhere 
pots: (617)873-3463  |  I want?"  "What are address busses?"  "How do 
              N1MNF  |  icons work?"              --Time-Life Books
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: akiy@siva.cs.titech.ac.jp (Akiyama Jun)
Subject: Paradise Lost
Organization: Tokyo Institute of Tech., Dept. of Computer Science, Japan
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:58:52 GMT


(I'm still trying to unlurk.  Bear with me.)

Before me is sitting the book/epic/poem "Paradise Lost" by the
often-said-to-be-more-than-intimidating John Milton.  I wish to read
it.  (Why?  Masochism.  Either that, or spending a year in a foreign
country can do wonders for one's literary exploits.)  Unfortunately,
this here school where I'm currently studying doesn't offer many
(perhaps "any") courses on John Milton.  Therefore, I'm thinking of
taking the challenge of reading "Paradise Lost"... alone.

I was wondering if anyone out there had any pointers/tips on reading
this massive work.  I'm no English person and I haven't read the
bible, which I'm sure are some disadvantages.  Should I stoop so low
as to buying a Cliffs Notes?  Or are there any good companion books
out there that explain the allusions and overall "meanings" to help me
on my journey?

Any words of advice, warning, or encouragement would be greatly
appreciated.

--
           akiy@cs.titech.ac.jp|Amiga/Mac/IBM/NeXT/NEC (ugh)/Unix-box User   
UCLA undergrad, studying abroad|"False ideas may be refuted indeed by argument,
  Tokyo Institute of Technology| but by true ideas alone are they expelled."
    Natural Language Processing| ---John Henry Newman, _Apologia Pro Vita Sua_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung)
Subject: Re: Most-anthologized English-language poem
Originator: schung@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:34:20 GMT


Tintern Abbey?

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: vince@cadence.com (Vince Gibboni)
Subject: Re: Paglia, Sterne, Amis
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:45:12 GMT

jeff@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Jeff Dalton) writes:
> rhogan@phakt.usc.edu (Ron Hogan) writes:
>> The only novel of his I have on hand is _The_Rachel_Papers_,
>
> Easily the worst of the ones I've read.  I found it unfunny.
> I wouldn't say the same for, say, _Money_.

    Which gives me an opportunity to remind the home viewers that if the
    only Martin Amis that they've read is _The_Rachel_Papers or _Time's 
    Arrow_ (as is so often the case) then they've really missed out on 
    the good stuff. And, at the risk of starting one of those interminable 
    threads, somehow seeing _Money_ and Scotland in the same post kicked
    off something in my associative cortex and reminded me of a question
    that's been haunting me for some time, and which someone out there 
    might be able to answer: is the Dire Straits song _Heavy Fuel_ 
    intentionally based on the novel _Money_ ? 


        - Vince (me)



--
                                                         vince@gda.cadence.com
 
    "The last government program that worked was World War II."
        - David Brinkley
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:27:07 GMT

	Leo Breebaart writes:

>Anyway, I have a question for the Harlan experts out there: in the book,
>Harlan mentions working on a major Hollywood movie screenplay, but he is
>so embarrassed about what eventually became of it that he doesn't even
>want to tell us the name of that movie. But of course I'm just dying
>to know which movie he's talking about. Does anybody know?



	Last week's episode of "Naked Hollywood" was about
screenwriters and it opened with Harlan expostulating on the process.
"Naked Hollywood" is a PBS documentary series but so far nobody's
naked. Well, Harlan wasn't naked. Which is good because he looked bad.
Of course, even if looked *good* . . .

Keith
--

Keith Morgan kamorgan@athena.mit.edu
In the end nothing could be said of his work except that it was
preposterous and true and totally unacceptable. Edward Whittemore
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: The Warrior Queens (was: Paglia)
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<20JAN93.17314280@vax.clarku.edu> <8259@skye.ed.ac.uk>
	<28JAN93.03501555@vax.clarku.edu>
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:17:25

My guess is that Thatcher adopted the tone of a female scold intentionally.
Scolding people was necessary for accomplishing her goals.  What griped
the left and the tory wimps like Ted Heath was her success with that approach.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rafem@gvlf8-k.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone)
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 12:20:51 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.163706.18662@zip.eecs.umich.edu> stame@emunix.emich.edu (Stewart Tame) writes:
>In article <93022.170004U19807@uicvm.uic.edu> <U19807@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>In article <leo.727693316@draconis>, leo@cp.tn.tudelft.nl (Leo Breebaart) says:
>>
>>>Anyway, I have a question for the Harlan experts out there: in the book,
>>>Harlan mentions working on a major Hollywood movie screenplay, but he is
>>>so embarrassed about what eventually became of it that he doesn't even
>>>want to tell us the name of that movie. But of course I'm just dying
>>>to know which movie he's talking about. Does anybody know?
>>
>
>Actually the screenplay was probably _I, Robot_ which was serialized in
>Asimov's SF Magazine I believe. 

I believe Ellison's _I, Robot_ screenplay surfaced as an episode of Outer
Limits, an early 60's TV program.



Regards,

Ralph Marrone.
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Computer writes a book?
Date: 28 Jan 93 01:33:17 GMT
Organization: nope

In article <1993Jan27.033724.27564@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> pml3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Paul Michael Lewis) writes:
>
>Constructing a single complex and coherent sentence for a computer is
>difficult enough.  Creating two sentences which are coherent in sequence is
>infinitely more difficult.
>
>A computer can have no concept of plot, characterization and theme.
>
>Keeping that in mind, just imagine how absurd a computer learning an
>author's style is.
>

Not very absurd, merely very difficult.

Some years ago, a certain Herbert Freeman was doing some fairly
successful research in the field of auditory pattern recognition;
some of the programs were able to recognize composer's works
quite reliably.  I'm told that certain other programs were able
to produce sequences of notes that when played for humans, the
humans identified the composer's style about as well as they were
able to identify legitimate works of those composers.

Many of you are familiar with an invention of Freeman's, the
chain code.  Of course, most people's exposure to it is in the
form of specifying direction of travel for computerized Star Trek
games and such.



-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.censorship
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Federal-level Book Censorship in the USA
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:41:04 GMT

	Jack Campin writes:

	Is there anywhere a centralized list of all banned books in
	the US, along the lines of the annual compendium the Irish government
	used to publish?

I'd also like to see a list of all the books that have made it to the
Vatican Index. Has anyone ever seen that?

Keith
--

Keith Morgan kamorgan@athena.mit.edu
In the end nothing could be said of his work except that it was
preposterous and true and totally unacceptable. Edward Whittemore
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Why I signed off this list
Date: 22 Jan 1993 21:59:45 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: milton.u.washington.edu

In article <11798@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> nall@ibm12.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall) 
writes:
>
>So are you going to sign off the list or not?  These drawn-out goodbyes
>are bad form :-)


Stand not upon the order of your going, 
But go at once?
From: py1djf@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (D J Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: The Liar
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:11:15 GMT
Organization: School of Physics, University of Bath, UK


	I was wondering, having just discovered this newsgroup,
	what the concensus opinion on Stephen Fry's The Liar
	was.

	Myself, I though it was brilliant for a first attempt.
	God, no, that makes it sound cr*p. It was brilliant
	for any attempt. Hell, it was just brilliant. 

	But what I would like to now is if there were any
	reviews posted for it here, also, if it has been
	published in the US.

	Can any one supply the necessary?

Dave Ford

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  // /||\/| | /^, /| ||	Dave Ford        ||	Come and play at	
\X/ /-||  | | \_7/-| ||py1djf@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk||rec.games.mornington.cresent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books