HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scott@Apple.COM (scott douglass)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Cute things they say (3.9)
Date: 17 Dec 92 07:34:12 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

sgauch@ccs.northeastern.edu (Susan Gauch) writes:

>We were watching "The Rescuers" and there was a scene with the
>seagull on it:
>
>Laura: "Birds are made from pillows."
>Me (puzzled): "Why do you say that?"
>Laura: "Because pillows have feathers in them!"
>
When Alan was two-and-a-half he was watching me feed the baby his
babyfood and asked me, "Do you know how they make peas?"  I said no
so he filled me in:  "They just take that green mushy stuff and roll
it into little, little balls."  (while making eensy weensy rolling
motions with his hands)

		--  maggie
-- 
				--scott douglass
Any opinions above may be mine and are not necessarily those of Apple Computer.
domain: scott@apple.com  UUCP: {nsc, sun, voder, well, dual}!apple!scott
CSNet: scott@Apple.CSNet  AppleLink: Douglass1
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade)
Subject: Re: Crawling and Reading (Was AMA Calls for Ban on Infant Walkers
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:10:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.001403.6384@ttinews.tti.com> reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.185025.13015@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com> elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade) writes:
>
>>Also, certain techniques associated with some success in physical
>>theraphy for brain-damaged patients works quite well for dyslexic
>                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>chidren.  The crawling therapy is one of those.  Though from what
>>I remember reading, it seems to enjoy very limited success.
>                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Maybe I missed something, but I'm experiencing a bit of cognitive
>dissonance here.   Could you please clarify this?
>
>=====================================================================
>Reid Kneeland
>reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
>Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
>The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...
>
>Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.

Gee, I thought I worded that well.  Let me try again. The therapies
which work well for minimally brain damaged folks (like due to a
physical injury) work well, in general for dyslexic children.

Relearning crawling is one of those therapies which is sometimes
used for both categories.  However, as I remember it, the crawling
therapy has been limited in its success for *both* categories.
There are other therapies which work better.  

Elise
Date: Sunday, 20 December 1992 01:10:57 MST
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.15R
From: "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com>
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Distribution: world

In <1992Dec16.222430.5940@ico.isc.com>, carnes@ico.isc.com (Steve Carnes)  wrote:
# There seem to be 2 reasons for circumcision: one is medical, based on
# extremely dubious medical studies; the other is religious, having
# something to do with some covenant with gawd, and constitutes ritual
# abuse performed on an unwilling minor.  Either way, I consider it
# barbaric and unnecessary.

  So, either outlaw it or get a life.  I mean, what's your hangup on
  other peoples' kids' penises?

--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 14:27:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.193651.8553@advtech.uswest.com> ken@advtech.uswest.com (Kenny Chaffin) writes:
>	I'm sure there are a lot of people with the same _opinion_. My 
>opinion happens to be different, and neither are necessarily right or wrong,
>but my argument against it is that it is a medically unnecessary procedure.
>It is only done for social/vanity/religious reasons. And for me that is not
>a good enough reason to invoke such a procedure on babies.
>

  I agree.  People can all have opinions.  Only I feel that parents
  should have to watch their children get circumcision.  Apparently
  people who do it for religious reasons do watch and are comfortable
  with it.  But people who get it done in the hospital don't watch,
  and don't know what goes on.  My sisters are both former medical
  students and even though their husbands are circumsized, have decided
  against it for any potential sons because they've watched the
  procedure (and even participated in it).  As a medical student my
  sister had to do a circumcision for her first attempt (I guess you
  gotta practice on someone...)  I don't mind hairdressers practicing
  on my hair, it'll always grow back.  But on my son's penis???
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: gdavis@griffin.uvm.edu (Gary Davis)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:32:22 GMT

In <1992Dec16.194527.1073@dsd.es.com> ksouth@iguana.dsd.es.com (Kerri South) writes:

>Yeah, me! I'm female, my husband was circumcised, and any sons we have will
>likely
>be circumcised. I haven't seen that my husband has suffered in any way 
>whatsoever for being circumcised. He agrees with me. I really don't care what
>is currently fashionable as regards the question of to-circumcise-or-not-to-
>circumcise. I see the whole thing as a wash. If and when the vast  majority of
>males born in the USA are not circumcised, then I would not want a newborn
>son to be circumcised. The important thing is not to cause the kid unnecessary
>husband felt differently, I would certainly go along with his views. He has
>a lot more experience being male than I do :)

>-- 
>Kerri South, Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
>Design Systems Division, P.O. Box 8070, 
>Salt Lake City, Utah 84108        (801) 582-5847 


 Isn't this a contradiction? In one line all the "fashionable"
arguments are called a "wash",but you go on to give in to peer pressure.
In Anne Brigg's book, Circumcision What Every Parent Should Know,
she interviewed several men who were in a very small minority,
uncircumcised in the 1950s. Most said they were not teased unless they
already had been a target for teasing for some other reason.
Teaching kids self confidence and respect for differences,in my opinion,
is a higher goal for anyone who raises kids.

As a personal experience.. I was in high school in the late 60s when
25% of the gym class was intact;I never once heard a disparaging
remark concerning circumcision status. Kids both circumcised and intact
need to be made to feel good about themselves and parents DO have the
power to do this!

--
                       Gary E. Davis /WQ1F/
              Dpt. Electrical Engineering and Com Sciences
              University of Vermont @ Burlington
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: When To Turn Car Seat?
Keywords: When To Turn Car Seat?
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 14:56:03 GMT


Ken, your e-mail address doesn't work!
Clare
clare@nynexst.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507))
Subject: Re: Dr. Dean Edell (was Re: A few facts about circumcision)
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:38:14 GMT

In article <gdavis.724556351@griffin> gdavis@griffin.uvm.edu (Gary Davis) writes:
>In <1992Dec16.204915.11718@clpd.kodak.com> staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507)) writes:
>
>
>>[...]
>>for his anti-circumcision stance.  (Incidentally, I remember one show 
>>where he was practically jumping up-and-down from glee because an adult
>>male called in to say that he was less sensitive to sexual feeling since
>>his recent circumcision.  Dr. Dean took off on his "see what you're 
>>depriving your son of" speech, based on anecdotal evidence, without even
>>discussing other possibilities which might be related to the recentness
>>of the operation, etc.)  But, like I said above, I do enjoy listening to
>>him.
>
>  Ken,what would you have said if he dismissed the caller's views and
>said circumcision is just part of our culture so its just OK?

That would have been worse, since he wouldn't have shed any medical
perspective at all on the issue.  I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with his
position, just pointing out that he does form opinions, does take 
political stances, and in the case that I was describing above, I felt
he jumped on the conclusion too fast, based on his conviction.

>That is what the vast majority of MDs say to parents every day.

It's hard to generalize, but I would hope that if asked by a new
parent, or parent-to-be, that a doctor would be a little more specific
about the procedure, the potential risks, etc.  I wouldn't expect any
less for any type of surgery, and I see this as a big potential benefit
of the "circumcision awareness" movement.

>In fact there is a growing and profitable market for infant foreskin
>in cell culture areas.

Yep, yep.  This adds a twist, and is an interesting issue in its own
right...

>The point is that beacuse Dr.Edell holds and voices some personal
>views,this does not make him less credible.

Nor more credible.

>Dean Edell is a very likeable and compassionate person,in my view.
>I have heard Edell speak very agreeably with folks that have chosen
>to circumcise. Usually the latter have no good reason,just think it
>looks better.

Yes, I agree about your opinion of him.  I really don't mean this, in any
way, to sound like I dislike _or_ dissaprove of him.  I really like listening
to him, generally agree with his positions, and only cited the (rare) incident
that I did to illustrate the fact that he is human, has decided his position
on circumcision, and can be very receptive to anecdotal evidence which helps
to support it.  (I heard him reference this call on a subsequent program.)
I respect his medical knowledge, greatly, as well as agree with most of his
personal opinions and positions, which he does mix in.

Ken
---
staffan@serum.kodak.com
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: how to take baby out in snow without a car?
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:19:53 GMT
Organization: nope

In article <tommy.724365683@hilbert> tommy@boole.att.com writes:
>How about a sled?

Rig it with wheels, for those occasions where there are cleared
areas.

Alternatively, rig a jogging stroller with runners, or oversize
wide pneumatic tires.


-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: ksouth@iguana.dsd.es.com (Kerri South)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Reply-To: ksouth@dsd.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 00:35:17 GMT

In article <BzDI3E.DAx@acsu.buffalo.edu>, oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
> In article <1992Dec16.194527.1073@dsd.es.com>, ksouth@dsd.es.com writes...
> >In article <1992Dec15.181822.27762@newstand.syr.edu>, kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling) writes:
> 
> >I haven't seen that my husband has suffered in any way 
> >whatsoever for being circumcised. He agrees with me.
> 
> Ummm...How can he tell if he's missing anything or not if he 
> never experienced being uncircumcized?
> 
> - Peggy -

Weelll, I can't think of any other way to miss something than sexually or
psychologically  (or is there such a thing as pride-of-foreskin or something?)
He seems not at
all psychologically affected, inasmuch as he is the sanest person I know (in
contrast to me.) As for sexually, I can't imagine a less repressed or
more sexually healthy person (also in contrast to me!)

Sure, technically, he wouldn't know what he's missing unless a sufficient
number (a few would do) of uncircumcised friends would fill him in "Hey,
I see you're circumcised, let me tell you what you're missing ...".
Maybe you can fill me in, because frankly, I wouldn't mind not circumcising
my sons if there is a good reason not to.

-- 
Kerri South, Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Design Systems Division, P.O. Box 8070, 
Salt Lake City, Utah 84108        (801) 582-5847 
INET: ksouth@dsd.es.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: palm@admin.kth.se (Christer Palm)
Subject: When To Turn Car Seat? 
Keywords: When To Turn Car Seat? 
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:48:18 GMT


Can't reply by mail to smme@cbnewse.att.com!

Your message dated: Thu, 17 Dec 92 12:50:50 EST
>> In article <BzCwzo.G2J@unix.amherst.edu> njamal@unix.amherst.edu (Nuhad Jama
>l) writes:
>> >
>> >I probably should know this from my first son...but, when are you
>> >supposed to turn a backward facing infant seat forwards?  
>> 
>> When the child is 3 year or when the childs head reaches the to edge
>> of the seat. The neck of a child under 3 is not strong enough to keep
>> the head in place, burstings might occur in the neck due to the wait
>> of the head, in case of an accident.
>> 
>> /Christer
>> -- 
>> "Destiny makes relatives, selection makes friends."
>> 
>
>3 YEARS ??!!!

YES. 36 month. Thats what the car security board in Sweden recommend.
The recommendation is based on accident investigations and research work
at Chalmers institute of technology in cooperation with car
manufacture's and insurance companies

Drive safe! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
/Christer

-- 
"Destiny makes relatives, selection makes friends."

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: anne@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Anne Paulson)
Subject: Self feeding and fine motor skills
Organization: Stanford University
	<TIGGER.92Dec12220442@satyr.Sylvan.COM> <4062@master.CNA.TEK.COM>
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:35:52

In article <4062@master.CNA.TEK.COM> judyd@rosebud.CNA.TEK.COM (Judy E. Drake) writes:


   So maybe a preference self-feeding does have something to do with fine 
   motor skills.  I've also read that girls tend to develop these skills faster 
   than boys, which has been borne out in my kids.

One or two cases does not a theory make, but I have a counterexample.
Will would have nothing to do with baby food.  He liked to self feed.
However, he rarely used a pincer grip.  He'd usually take a handful of
whatever it was (eggs, applesauce, noodles) and shove it in his mouth.
I highly recommend Pelican bibs.

Will is hopeless with his fine motor skills.  Today at preschool the
kids strung beads on pipecleaners.  The beads had huge holes, as big as a
holepunch might make.  At almost three Will is one of the older kids,
but he was the only one who couldn't do this.  However, he is the only
kid in his class who can ride a tricycle (forwards and backwards) and
use a scooter.  

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.  I'm totally 
lacking in hand-eye coordination, and I ride bicycles a lot.  The
apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

-- Anne

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 19:25:03 EST

Please excuse me for attempting to be rational in the face of such an
emotional discussion, but so far the only two issues have been been being
talked about here; religious reasons and vanity; and I distinctly remember
mentioning a third...ease of maintenance.

As I've said (calmly) many times before, one of the reasons I enjoy being
circumcised is because of the ease of maintenance.  When I took a bath or a
shower, *everything* got clean without me having to do excessive fiddling
around.  As I've also said before, my wife, who's a nurse could tell you
quite a few stories about uncircumcised men whose foreskins you had to clean
with a Dustbuster.  So...forgetting the religious and vanity issues, how are
we on maintenance?  I really think it's been easier for me as well as my
parents when I was a baby.

Also, this whole discussion, and recently finding out just what *is*
involved in caring for an uncircumcised penis finally shed some light on
something I saw when I was a kid.  I was staying over my friend John's
house, and the last thing I remember before we went to bed was happening to
see his mother come in with a Q-Tip and some other stuff (this was a good 25
years ago, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy) and start doing something to his
penis.  I thought maybe he'd hurt himself or something, but I wasn't about
to ask what was going on and embarrass him or myself.  Now I realize what
was going on...his mother was making sure his foreskin was clean!

Nah...I'll take circumcision.

*Rational* responses, anyone?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Keith E Gatling                                  kgatling@mailbox.syr.edu *
*          Opinions?  I've got plenty of them.  Just ask my wife!           *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
From: arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Violence. Does type matter?
Date: 20 Dec 92 16:51:06 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <1992Dec20.003017.27205@crd.ge.com> 
kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover) writes:

>How long does it take for a person to distinguish (possibly in a
>socially acceptable way) between force and violence.

>I would have to say it varies quite a bit.  Judging by this
>newsgroup, in some cases it takes thiry or forty years.

(Sigh.) I've probably misunderstood this, and if so please accept my
apologies; but I can't just let it pass without comment. 

Do you mean that parents who oppose spanking do so only because they
cannot distinguish between force and violence?

A simple "no" will suffice! The very last thing I want to do is to
start up that whole thread again.

In parenting, "force" would mean something like using one's superior
physical strength to restrain a child from running into the street,
or sticking its little fingers into an electrical socket. It need not
involve hitting.

"Violence" would mean hitting in such a way as to cause injury.

"Spanking" is a grey area in between, and is a legitimate area for
debate.

I do not recall anybody in this newsgroup opposing the use of "force"
in the unproblematic sense, so I do not understand your comment.

Believe me, I only bring this up very reluctantly indeed! This hurts
me more than it hurts you. :-)
--
Gus Rodgers,  Dept. of Computer Science, |  [Profound thought for 1993]
Queen Mary & Westfield College, Mile End |     "Philishave is about
Road, London, England.   +44 71 975 5241 |      personal choice" 
E-mail (JANET):   arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk |             -- TV advert
Xref: sparky misc.kids:30702 alt.child-support:3993 soc.men:21320 soc.women:21581 sci.psychology:4827
From: crobshaw@rd.hydro.on.ca (Catharine Robshaw)
Subject: Re: how to take baby out in snow without a car?
Organization: "Ontario Hydro - Research Division"
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 13:38:38 GMT

tommy@hilbert.att.com (Tom Reingold) writes:
: How about a sled?

I second that.  We took our son out on a sleigh for the first time
on Saturday, he loved it!  It has a high back so he can lean back and
sides on it.  Of course his dad tipped him over twice, the snow was not
very smooth, but other than that, he had a lot of fun.

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: gdavis@griffin.uvm.edu (Gary Davis)
Subject: Re: Dr. Dean Edell (was Re: A few facts about circumcision)
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:39:11 GMT

In <1992Dec16.204915.11718@clpd.kodak.com> staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507)) writes:



>This is starting to get off the track, but since his name is being thrown
>around so much, I wanted to comment.  I like Dr. Edell, but I don't totally
>agree with the last couple of sentences above.  First, he is paid for his
>radio and TV shows, because they draw listeners/viewers.  This does not
>necessarily lend any credence to his views.  Secondly, I think a keyword
>used above is that he _interprets_ medical issues.  It's true he is
>_very_ anti-circumcision.  It's also true that he's _very_ pro-legalization
>of drugs, but I don't see as much support for this position, as I do
>for his anti-circumcision stance.  (Incidentally, I remember one show 
>where he was practically jumping up-and-down from glee because an adult
>male called in to say that he was less sensitive to sexual feeling since
>his recent circumcision.  Dr. Dean took off on his "see what you're 
>depriving your son of" speech, based on anecdotal evidence, without even
>discussing other possibilities which might be related to the recentness
>of the operation, etc.)  But, like I said above, I do enjoy listening to
>him.

>Ken
>---
  Ken,what would you have said if he dismissed the caller's views and
said circumcision is just part of our culture so its just OK?
That is what the vast majority of MDs say to parents every day.
In fact there is a growing and profitable market for infant foreskin
in cell culture areas.

The point is that beacuse Dr.Edell holds and voices some personal
views,this does not make him less credible.
Dean Edell is a very likeable and compassionate person,in my view.
I have heard Edell speak very agreeably with folks that have chosen
to circumcise. Usually the latter have no good reason,just think it
looks better.

--
                       Gary E. Davis /WQ1F/
              Dpt. Electrical Engineering and Com Sciences
              University of Vermont @ Burlington
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - K31)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: How Do You Celebrate Hannukah?
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:41:47 GMT
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center

> I buy a Christmas Tree.

At first I got angry... then I realized that to answer truthfully I would
have to say, my son and I go out and cut down a Christmas tree.  I think
that I would like to try to pay homage to the time honored tradtion of
chanuka this year.  I am sure that I can get the range of dates from
my calendar at home, the one I have here doesn't have it.

Which night do you light the menorah?
What would be a good day (outside of DEC 25) to have the lahtkes?
If someone has it handy, would you post the story of chanuka.

Thank you! 
================== We Design and Build Fine Networks ===================
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Disclaimer: The Public Affairs Officer speaks for this Naval Lab, not me!