From: gal502@huxley.anu.edu.au (Graeme Lindsell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RQ: King of Sartar and the Yelmalio Cult
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc
Date: 7 Jan 1993 07:53:07 GMT
Organization: RSC, Australian National University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.36.81

In article <1993Jan6.164711.11504@infonode.ingr.com>,
beykema@infonode.ingr.com (Maurice Beyke) wrote:
> 
>  I can't believe how little discussion there has been this week,
>  what with the _King of Sartar_ and _River of Cradles_ both just
>  out.  Well, I'll try to kick in my share here.
> 
>  KOS did settle some things about the Elmal/Yelmalio question, but
>  it raises questions also.  For instance:
> 
>   o Originally, Elmal was Orlanth's thane, and guarded his stead
>     during the Lightbringers' Quest.  However, among Argrath's
>     companions in _The Argrath Book_ (KOS p169) are several listed
>     as Homeguard; two of these (Argrand Sunbright, and Orstalor the
>     Spearlord) have names that sound solar.  Also, in the _Orlanthi
>     Mythology_ book, both Elmal and Yelmalio are listed (KOS,
>     pp50,54).  So, is Elmal still a part of the Orlanth pantheon,
>     and the Yelmalio cult just a schism, albeit larger than the main
>     branch now?  Or has Elmal been replaced in the rituals by some
>     other solar deity?

 I wonder what god the Aldryami worshipped then. Yelmalio seems to
have been a part of the elves pantheon since GodTime, when he did
them a lot of favours. Of course, the concept of history seems to
be a pretty flexible one in Glorantha.
 
>   o In _Jalk's Book_ it states that the conversion of the Elmal cult
>     to Yelmalio occured during the beginning of the reign of Prince
>     Tarkolar of Sartar (KOS pp195-197).  This is ~600 years after the
>     founding of Sun Dome County in the Zola Fel Valley.  So, who
>     founded Sun Dome County, and was it called that then?  Were the
>     Elmali known as Sun Domers?  Were they independent enough from the
>     rest of Orlanthi culture at that time that they would set out on
>     their own to form colony, with none of the other Orlanthi about?
>     Or perhaps, did an entire colony of Orlanthi settle in the Zola
>     Fel Valley, and all but the Elmali get wiped out?

 I wonder what other inhabitants of Glorantha would say about this 
"change to history"? In King of Sartar  it has some previous
examples of the Lightbringer Quest: one of them (Harmast's?) brought
Arkat Humaktsson into the world. Arkat was a son of Humakt who had been
imprisoned on a Western island for years for fighting Gbaji. He later
betrayed the Orlanthi to become a Troll. But the Westerners would say
that Arkat was a Brithini who later joined the Hrestoli, and then
betrayed them to become a barbarian death worshipper. Both these
descriptions are true within their cultures, but ouside them would
be called lies.

 The description of this change of Elmal to Yelmalio seemed bizarre
to me when I first read it, and KoS hasn't cleared up my confusion by
much. I wonder if what "really" happened was that some high ranking
members of the Elmal cult wanted to start worshipping the Sun Cult
Yelmalio for political reasons, and heroquested to create the belief
that they had always worshipped him, amongst both their worshippers
and the surrounding Orlanthi Culture. It would explain the presence of 
both Elmal and Yelmalio in the god list: Elmal is a thane of Orlanth 
who has little separate worship, though some historical evidence seems
to indicate that this was once otherwise. An outsider (a GodLearner?)
might say they have just changed the god they worship, but no-one in
Sartar remembers that. Perhaps the heroquest involving the Hill of Gold
is correct: by changing the myth of Elmal until it resembled that of
Yelmalio, they converted the Elmal believers into Yelmalio believers.

 This would bear some resembelance to the "Manirian Memory Removal"
also mentioned in KoS, that affected the EWF but not the nieghbours
of the EWF, who can still remember that the EWF had draconic powers, 
though no member of that culture can recall that. 

 On of the most interesting things about KoS is the description of
post Hero Wars Glorantha. One of the  most fascinating is the Illiteracy
period, when memory of how to read was deleted, at least from the areas
around Sartar. This seemed to have the effect of destroying the
Orlanthi culture. The Author of KoS "Greg Stafford", does not seem to 
be an Orlanthi.
 
>   Well, that should do for a start.  I know that often there is no one
>   right answer about Gloranthan myth, but both of these points concern
>   the mundane world.  And yes, saying both are true is a valid answer
>   for point 1; I'm just curious whether it would be valid to, say,
>   have some Sartarite Elmal cultists show up in Pavis, and how they
>   would respond to the Sun Dome Templars and vice versa.
> 
> <^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^>
> < Boris Mikey            |"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive  >
> < aka Maurice Beyke      | for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe;     >
> < mab@batman.b11.ingr.com| if you wish to be a devotee of truth,             >
> < These views are mine,  | then inquire."                                    >
> < Ingr. doesn't want them|                                  Nietzsche        >
>  vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

I'd like to say more but I have to dash! 

Graeme Lindsell a.k.a gal502@huxley.anu.edu.au
Research School of Chenistry, Australian National University
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc