HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wmorgan@stsci.edu (Windsor A. Morgan)
Subject: Re: rec.arts.comics.image?
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 03:23:39 GMT

>Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner (mcmahan@cs.unca.edu) wrote:
>: Is there enough interest in rec.arts.comics.image to go through
>: the motions of CFD,RFD, and so on?

In article <1992Aug24.022644.5695@amhux2.amherst.edu> khandley@amhux1.amherst.edu (Keith Handley) answers:
>There is such a group.  It's called rec.arts.comics.xbooks.

Well, pardon me if I am wrong, but 'xbooks is only for the Marvel
mutant comics, not for those creators who used to work on those books.
(Though I admit Handley may be joking).

Anyway, it would be a mistake to create a newsgroup for Image, as it
was a mistake, in my opinion, to make 'xbooks.

Of course, the original question may have been a joke which I missed;
in that case, ignore this post.

:-)



-- 
'Verily, there be no leader as wise as the Vision!'
                         Windsor Morgan (wmorgan@stsci.edu OR NHT@PSUVM.BITNET)
                         Space Telescope Science Institute
                         Baltimore, MD   21218
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: sksircar@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Subrata Sircar)
Subject: Re: Good Week Reviews, 8/30/92: Miracleman 23/Silver Age 1
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: SPAMIT
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:59:21 GMT

lf7z@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>heifetz!lokkur.dexter.mi.us!scs@uunet.UU.NET (Steve Simmons) writes:
>>Dauntless seems at first a caricature.  But after a while you realize
>>that he was made to be one by Gargunza's dreams.

Miracleman had the benefit of "... eighteen years ... trapped in that weak,
tired body..." after the A-bomb, which YM did not.  That made the subsequent
events easier to swallow.

>>One problem with the story is inconsistancy.  When Winter was born,
>>she appeared to be maturing very quickly -- and in fact, chided her
>>father for being so backwards.  Although 19 years of story have gone
>>by, Winter has if anything become less mature.  Similarly there is
>>no trace of extended intelligence or morality from most of these
>>miraclechildren.  They're ordinary adolescents with more powerful
>>toys, that's all.

What would you expect?  Winter was born with a mind which let her instantly
analyze and adapt to her surroundings; indeed, it did so before birth.  So
she started off very high.  However, maturity is a response to environment,
by and large; Winter has no need of further maturity, especially social graces
or skills.  Hence her barging in on YM and MM.  The miraclekids are completely
Nietzchean; they have no need of our ideas on maturity, morals or anything
else that we might take for granted.  Presumably, they have their own set of
morals; maybe it's immoral to steal another kid's underspace wardrobe.  The
point being that by our standards they are spoiled children with the mind of
Einstein+ and the powers of Superman, and we shouldn't have expected anything
different.  *They* indulge us, not the other way around; they discipline us,
care for us, feed us and indeed, make our lives possible.  The world clearly
revolves around the superbeings, and that will be important in the upcoming
storyline.




-- 
Subrata Sircar | ssircar@canon.com | Prophet & SPAMIT Charter Member
Canon Information Systems and I do not speak for each other on all things.
"I wish people wouldn't instantly assume that I am an idiot." (Valentine)
"A restaurant is a whorehouse that does food instead of sex." (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: glitto@iastate.edu (Scott M Klabacha)
Subject: Re: Valiant sucks
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 05:51:05 GMT

dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:
>v070km6q@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (John B Schutkeker) writes:
>
>>I am pretty disgusted by the multiple issues gimmick, and I vehemently avoid
>>getting caught in that trap. 
>
>Yeah, I hear you. The five issue #1 of Team Titans is the last straw for me.
>I've quit reading all DC titles, because I think this is the lowest, 
	cheesiest 
>marketing strategy yet. 

So, let's see...last year, DC released a zillion different versions of Robin
II, which were only different because of cover, and carried that out for
a whole mini-series, but that was *not* as low or cheesy as releasing five
different versions of one comic, with a different bonus *story* in each one?

Hmmmm....

***gLITTOfERN*** glitto@iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty III)
Subject: Gimmicks in comics marketing (was Re: Valiant sucks)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:24:53 GMT

In article <BtnI3H.BDs@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v070km6q@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (John B Schutkeker) writes:
> In article <1992Aug26.211646.2140@unixg.ubc.ca>, jcomeau@unixg.ubc.ca (Joe Comeau) writes...
> 
> >READ the story, forget about trying to make a fast buck.  
> 
> Has it occurred to you that there is a strong correllation between the
> creative quality of a comic and it's price and demand as a back issue?

It hadn't ocurred to me, probably because there isn't any.  Otherwise, the
chart-toppers would be stuff like WATCHMEN and KINGS IN DISGUISE,
instead of X-FORCE and YOUNGBLOOD.

> I find that the market has very good judgement, and
> when the market decides something is good, I hardly ever disagree.

I find that the market has terrible judgement, given that it is essentially
driven by twelve-year-old kids and some adults with a serious case of
arrested development.

> Has it also occurred to you that when speculators get
> hurt by these gimmicks, dealers are also getting hurt?

Yes, which is why I think gimmicks are a bad thing.  But yet companies keep
using gimmicks.  And why is that?  Because they make money!!

So how do we stop the companies from using gimmicks?  Simple: don't support
them.  DON'T buy N+1 issues of a gimmick book like X-FORCE #1.  If you
don't like the gimmick, boycott it and tell the company why.

But if you hate it and still buy N++ copies of the thing (while swearing
under your breath the whole time), that qualifies as Stupid Behavior in
my book.  Don't expect me to pity you if you insist on acting stupidly
when you do know better (and you do).

P.S.  Some investment advice:  collectibles in general are not a good way
to make money.  BUY 'EM ONLY IF YOU LIKE 'EM!!
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: booga@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com (Steve Jankowski)
Subject: Re: The Hacker Files
Keywords: DC, Hacker FIles
Organization: IBM Personal Systems Programming, Palo Alto
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 18:05:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.222807.27637@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, kogutt@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SCAVENGER) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.040100.22967@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com> booga@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com (Steve Jankowski) writes:
>> [... regarding The Hacker Files ...]
>>lead character seemed a bit stupid.  (note that it's been cut back to a
>>limited 12 issue run)
>
>Uhhh, it always was a 12-issue series, to maybe become unlimited later.

Depends on where you get your information.  I go through a company that
takes orders three months before the publisher ships.  Much may happen
during the release of the catalog and the publisher's release.  When the first
Hacker Files showed up in the catalog, it was listed as a new monthly,
not a limited series.  The catalog for December ship (#6) mentions that
Green Lantern, Catherine Colbert (Justice League Europe) and Oracle
(Barbara Gordon, former Batgirl) guest-star.  We'll see how accurate
their information is in December...

booga
-- 
Steve Jankowski - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - booga@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com - -
IBM, Personal Systems Programming                               Booga says,
"I just work here, they don't let me speak for them."   "Software's great!"
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Fish Police by Marvel:  BUY IT
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:08:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Ohio State University

It is in color, using the same plates as I saw in the Eclipse run.  It's the 
original Hairballs, alright...they might have a different colorist than on the 
Eclipse run, but it looks about the same as far as I can tell.
     Dave Van Domelen, counting Oscar's tentacles verrrry carefully
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: lsmith@nano.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: San Diego Comic Con news
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 21:40:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.031707.9329@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <52_nz2b.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>>>In case you were wondering, that purple robed figure in a recent New Titans
>>>was indeed supposed to be Destiny, but permission wasn't granted by the
>>>Sandman people to use him, thus the change in name.
>>So it was just one of your generic omniscient robed beings handcuffed
>>to a book.  Just as I figured...
>
>And a case of "Sandman continuity appropriates regular continuity, and because
>Gaiman has a veto the characters are forevermore unusable in regular
>continuity" actually happens....

My feeling is that Gaiman had no part in this decision. I have heard at least 
one story (previously posted) where a writer wanted to include a Sandman 
character and DC said no. As it turned out Gaiman would have approved the use.
Someone else is controlling the "continuity" here.

As for Destiny, he's a sort of generic character. The Spectre spent time 
as a destiny prototype. The whole concept of such a character is based in
traditional myth. I don't know why DC would be gunshy about calling the
figure Destiny. It really doesn't matter.

I'm getting a little tired of this continuity debate. You make it sound
like Neil Gaiman is a mad bull in the DC china shop. The only thing he
controls is the appearance of his characters. His view of DC continuity 
doesn't dictate what has to happen outside the title.

Do you really want Hector Hal back? No problem. Bringing him back is a
piece of cake that would take any DC writer about five minutes. He wouldn't
even have to worry about what happened in Sandman, only what went on in 
Infinity, Inc. You'd need not involve any of the Endless. Gaiman has no
control of this. Start sending your letters in now.  

Death is the easiest ailment to cure in the comics. If there is ever a
demand to launch a new Silver Scarab (do I have that right?) title, then
it will happen. 
--
 Lance "The Weasel" Smith  | "He which brings no hustle to this game
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)    |  Let him depart; his waivers will be cleared,
  There were Giants in the |  And dollars of contract put into his wallet:
     Stick in those days   |  We would not play in that man's company"  Hrbek V
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: steyn@cs.rochester.edu (Gavin Steyn)
Subject: Re: Comics as entertainmet (was Re: Liefield Throws Tantrum)
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 01:51:20 GMT

In article <9208312301.AA02396@lynx.frame.com> jrd@lynx.frame.com (James Drew) writes:

>Are they?  Are books, movies, music, and comics (just) for entertainment?
>Can there be no other purpose?  (Not just to supplement or compliment the
>entertainment, but to supplant or replace it.)  Can none of these media be
>used for education?  For social commentary?  For mental abuse and torture?

They may have some other purpose, but that purpose should never supplant 
the entertainment value.  (note:  I'm using a pretty broad definition
of "entertain").  After all, if a book/movie/comic is just designed for
social commentary, why put it in fictive form at all?  A nonfiction
tract will get the point across much better.  Especially since if the book/
movie/comic is boring, we'll lose interest in the authour's message anyway.

>Must a comic entertain to be a "success?"  Can it not have some other goal as
>its primary motivation for existence?  (I posit that if you say "No," then
>you doom the comic book form to stagnation.)

What is the "primary motive" anyway?  What's Gaiman's primary motive in
_Sandman_?  Sim's in _Cerebus_?  (And I'll stay away from the even more
treacherous waters of literature...)

Gavin Steyn
steyn@cs.rochester.edu
"So he's had the lifelong ambition of reversing the polarity of the earth?"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: saab@ais.org (Micheal Marks)
Subject: Re: Valiant sucks
Organization: UMCC
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 07:11:54 GMT

In article <BtLIFL.20L@acsu.buffalo.edu> v070km6q@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (John B Schutkeker) writes:
>In article <BtKvAv.4Jt@ais.org>, saab@ais.org (Micheal Marks) writes...
>
>>		....And Venom is a "who cares" character now.
>>Even Wolvie is reaching the "who cares" plateau now.
>>
>> 
>>The Three Most-Asked Questions on the phone to a comic store:
>> 
>>1:Any Image Books coming out?
>>2:Any Valiant Books coming out?
>>3:Why Not?
>
>I wasn't sure how to interpret your argument.  If you're suggesting that the
>reason that Wolvie and Venom are getting to be "who cares" characters is
>because everybody wants Inage and Valiant titles, you may be right, for now,
>but I don't expect it to last.  Remenber when Dark Horse was so spectacular
>because it was a strong 3rd to Marvel and DC and had hired Frank Miller and
>John Byrne to do stories.  Remember when American Flagg and Dreadstar were the
>most Happeningest things in the Indie market.  Things can turn around fast for
>Indies, and they will for Image and Valiant, IMHO.  It will just take a little
>longer, because their entry into the marketplace has been so strong.
>
>						-- John S.

Well, yeah, that was kinda what I meant, but the bottom half of
the post had nothing to do with the top half.  My Fault.  Also
my fault for mixing up the Wolvie Candy Bar comic with the UNICEF
Venom book.  D'oh.
 
But yes, Venom and Wolvie and Punisher and Ghost Rider are passe now'
as the investors are attacking the Image/Valiant books.  Why?
I'll throw out one of the biggest reasons (IMHO)
 
Wizard 
 
These guys have been brilliant.  Check out WIZARD'S market share lately?
Not only have they put a hurting on Mr. Overstreet's Update, but 
Wizard has become almost a bandleader when it comes to pushing "hot"
books.  Just today, when #14 has been out ONE DAY, someone comes in
looking for Amazing Adventures #11, which is in the Wizard Watch.
This is a monthly occurence, depending on what book(s) are "Watched."
I have my doubts about whether they report prices or make prices, but
that's another topic.  My point is that you don't see Venon or Wolvie
or Punisher or Ghost Rider or DC being mentioned as "hot" now.  Its
all Valiant and Image.  Did Wizard "start" this?  Or are they just
reporting the current trend.  I've got some doubts.
 
I agree with you that I don't think the Image and especially Valiant
boom will last.  But where will the investors go next?  They go 
to books for some pretty farfetched reasons (Tony Stark dies?  
BWAHAHAHAAHAAHAHA!) so you see retailers constantly get
caught short.  In the short term, it looks like the 2099 books.
 
Sorry, my speling chequer is brokin.
 
MDM
-- 
"To be the man, you have to BEAT the man" Ric Flair, EX-REAL World's "The Man"
"Pain don't hurt none" "The key to winning is not losing"  Sparky Anderson
"The only battle that counts is the last one"  Leader Desslok
Micheal Marks  On IRC:Drstyle  saab@ais.org  mmarks@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: ian@airs.com (Ian Lance Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Good Week Reviews, 8/22/92: NEXUS, THE ORIGIN
Date: 23 Aug 92 16:08:50 GMT

scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons) writes:

>NEXUS, THE ORIGIN

>The final recommendation -- if you've heard about Nexus and wondered
>what the fuss was, get this issue.  If you're an old time fan and
>more of a reader than a collector, don't bother.

I'm an old time fan, and more of a reader, but I thought it was well
worth it just for the new Rude art.  In some of the pages I think he
was swiping some of his page layouts from the original in Nexus 2 or 3
or whereever it was (still good, of course).  But the others really
reminded me why I bought Nexus in the first place.

I'm also really looking forward to that Clonezone graphic novel with
Sienkiewicz art.  Should be awesome.
-- 
Ian Lance Taylor                ian@airs.com                uunet!airs!ian
First person to identify this quote wins a free e-mail message:
``I would prefer my life to contain more hours of pain, if that means
  that none of this pain is still to come.''
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  8823239)
Subject: Re: Dvandom reads too many comics
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 02:49:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.063332.16213@midway.uchicago.edu> lf7z@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug29.032634.12879@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  8823239) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug28.204032.27341@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen) writes:

{ahem}

With all do apologies to Kids in the Hall

These are the Dave's I know, I know
These are the Daves I know

Dave Van Domelen
Man this guy can post
He reads...to many comics
And now his brain is toast.

This heart wrenching, tear jerking moment was brought to you by...>
*************************************************************************
* Craig Welsh                  *    "I'm a few bricks short of a       *
*                              *     load, but a full load always      *
* cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca     *     hurt my back."                    *
*                              *     "Crazy" - Barenaked Ladies        *
************************************************************************
* "Homeboy from Hell." Screw that. I'm the Waiter from Hell.           *
*  You figure out which is scarier.                                    *
************************************************************************
You can now resume your regularly scheduled life. Thank you.

>
>


Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: Alexx@world.std.com (Alexx S Kay)
Subject: Re: The Trouble with SANDMAN (was Re: Unrepentant Heresy About To Be...)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:19:54 GMT

All these people complaining that a Death with jeans and goldfish and floppy
hats is too silly, I just don't get it.  Remember guys, this *is* a DC comic;
did you really think that a Death-figure who flew around on rocket-skis was
more plausible?  At least Gaiman's Death doesn't take herself too seriously :-)

Alexx

Alexx@world.std.com
"If you could have any amount of money... How much would you want?"
"All of it."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: hunter@cse.uta.edu (David Hunter)
Subject: Re: DC Implosion
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, Univ. of Texas at Arlington
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:27:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.001742.16774@morgan.ucs.mun.ca>
 cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  8823239) writes:

>In article <BtK26r.CF1@askinc.ask.COM> robert@askinc.ask.COM (Robert McMullen) writes:
>>Black Condor
>I'd say you can kiss this one good bye in a couple of months. Doesn't
>"fit in" with their new image.

Ok, I've been following this discussion about all the changes at
DC and I have a very simple question: Just what is this "new image"
that they are trying to portray?  How is it different from their
"old image"?

David C. Hunter
hunter@cse.uta.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jwtlai@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Jim W "GrimJim" Lai)
Subject: Re: Sandman #42
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:13:30 GMT

In article <j7_ns5f.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>Mervyn's right.  When the rain falls on the one who controls the
>local weather, that's posturing, not pathos.

Well, if it's because of a genuine emotion, it can be pathos as well.  Of
course, if it is improperlye executed, it merely becomes pathetic.
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty III)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Miracleman #23
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:30:52 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Sep2.190816.22045@sophia.smith.edu>, atwright@sophia.smith.edu (Aubrey Wright) writes:
> MM and Mike Moran may share the same mind,

No, they only share memories.  Mike Moran is just a man, while Miracleman
is Something Else, with a mind much more advanced that Moran's.  [Insert
appropriate Niezche reference here.]

Their personalities are so different that they think of each other as
different people.
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Lady and her Walrus)
Subject: Re: Elseworld books(DC)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 05:04:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.010031.28791@nmsu.edu> bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB) writes:
>What Elseworld books are out there and how good are they?
>
>Ones I know about:
>
>Gothem by Gaslight-Batman vs Jack the Ripper, good story
>?-Batman vs a 'Master of the World by H.G.Wells type', felt too much like the
>1930's film 'Master of the World' with Batman instead of Flash Gordon could
>have been much better.

I think this was called Master of the Future.

>Holy Terror-Batman vs The Church, never saw this one

Wasn't bad.  Then again, I liked the setting, so I'm probably biased.  The
bits explaining what had happened to "our" heroes in the alternate world were
very off-handed, without saying "And So-and-so, who otherwise would've gone
on to do such-and-such great thing, bites the bullet, allowing diddley-ump
to occur, which results in disaster for humankind" like in Marvel's What If?
series.  (Anybody ever take a body count in that book?  The numbers are
probably enormous. :))

>Red Rain-Batman and Dracula, also missed this one but reviews here were not
>favorable
>
>Also any ideas on other Elseworld books coming out, heard about a 4 parter
>involving Superman anything on a proposed releice date on this?
>
>Comments are welcomee

The Walrus

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: Montague_Kevin@Tandem.com (Kevvy Kev)
Subject: Re: Shooter LEFT?!? A Question...
Organization: In Effect Enterprises
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:26:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.103924.6315@iscsvax.uni.edu>, levin6706@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
> 
> In article <BtoMwE.CIq@ais.org>, saab@ais.org (Micheal Marks) writes:
> > In article <1992Aug27.190040.3915@stsci.edu> wmorgan@stsci.edu (Windsor A. Morgan) writes:
> >>In article <1992Aug27.124117.2045@wkuvx1.bitnet> barnejd@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
> >>>HANG ON!!!!!!
> >>
> >>>  Shooter LEFT?!?  I knew I hadn't seen his name on anything, but
> >>>WHAT HAPPENED?  Mna, have I ever been out of it!
> >>
> >>You sure have.  He left about five years ago.  Tom DeFalco is the
> >>Editor-in-chief at Marvel now, and screwing up the place, in my
> >>opinion.  Last I heard about Shooter was that he was going to work for
> >>some company named Valiant.  They make Super Mario Brothers comic
> >>books.
> >  
> > Yeah, and #1 is already 10 bucks!  Boy, you slap that Shooter name
> > on something and BANG!  They were supposed to do some of those
> > lame 60's Gold Key characters like Magnus Robot Fighter and Turok
> > and Dr. Solar in the near future.  Like anybody cares.
> 
>         Not to be insulting here, but have the three of you been in a time
> warp?  Shooter went to Valiant over a year ago and has subsequently been fired
> from there.  Magnus and all other titles done under his supervision became very
> popular with readers (not with me, I never bothered to checked them out), so I 
> guess they weren't THAT lame.
> 
>                                         S H Y L O C K

Ah, Shy?  You're making a fool of yourself.

Kevvy Kev
"Still fighting?  Then I'll burn your other arm off.  Hurt?  Good."
  -Solar