HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aftab@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Aftab Ahmad;MU-SPIN/CESDIS)
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:20:11 GMT

jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan) writes:

>In article <aftab.724360807@nsisrv>, aftab@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Aftab
>Ahmad;MU-SPIN/CESDIS) writes:

>Funny isn't it?  There's no mention at all of the *will* of the 98% of the
>muslims who were unable to enter this select club of Aligarh-ians or that of the
>ulema. All their decisions were being made by these "great muslim thinkers".


	Unfortunately, that is the case in general. Everywhere in history
and world you see people being representd by a select group. Now about
Indian Muslims, you have to note one of Jinnah's comments that he made
in the spring of 1938. Approximately: 'The Muslims in India got more united
within last six months than within last century and a half'.
Combine this with: division/reunion of Bengal, First world war, Congress
Ministries (c. 1937), you will see a gradual uprising among Muslim demand
of getting as much attention as Hindus. It was after these Ministries that
the Muslim League got popular among the Muslim masses (as opposed to the
middle class and nawabs).


>Perhaps this was a perception among many muslims who left for Pakistan. But 
>a larger number stayed behind. So where does that leave the argument of the two
>nation theory.

	For one thing, the two nation theory is embedded in Indian laws
more than in pakistan now (Muslims have some different provisions when it
coms to marriage). Secondly the Hindu-Muslim unity is not something to be
seen on social level yet (on political level, Indian government has not
neglected minorities); recent riots are a proof. As for those people who
were left in India, there not coming to Pakistan is an ample proof that it
was not in the name of religion. People did raise the slogans of
Pakistan ka matlab kia, La elaha illulah but that was only after its popularity
after all the leaders in Muslim League were politicians, and not religious
leaders - they knew how to do it, and they did it. And for reference, let me
tell you one more point: the talk of separating Muslim majorty areas did not
include East Bengal - neither in Iqbal's Alabad address nor in the word
Pakistan (Punjab, Afghanistan, Kashmir, BaluchisTAN), though the Muslim
League was christianised in Bengal - so do you still believe Islam as a 
motivator of making a new country.



>The events which lead to the creation of Bangladesh leaves no doubtin my mind
>about the failure of this crazy concept of the "nation of the straight path".

	But they will definitely teach you a lesson - if you don't care 
about me; I don't care about you - forget about religion.

>--Javed.

fakat

Aftab Ahmad
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: News
Date: 13 Dec 1992 07:06:05 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
NNTP-Posting-Host: neuron.tamu.edu

In article <1992Dec13.063257.28668@usl.edu> zxs6373@usl.edu (Siddiqui Zafar) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.163734.66958@slate.mines.colorado.edu> imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM ) writes:
>>
>>	Muslims in Pakistan offered Jumma Prayer in one of the 
>>	biggest temple in Sindh near Indus River.
>> 
>
>Pray tell me how does this act prove us muslims to be better than others???
>Its a shame.
>
>Zafar
>

I don't get it. Why should you condemn muslims who are trying to show 
respect to the minority community.  Hey, I am all for people praying 
in each others places of worship. 

regards,
--   
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|  LIFE's COMPLEX - IT HAS
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)  REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS.
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18537 soc.culture.bangladesh:6899
From: varma@paul.rutgers.edu (not yet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Washington Ready to Brand Pakistan a Terrorist State
Date: 17 Dec 92 01:20:14 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.pakistan
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Following is a news article from misc.news.southasia
posted by Brijesh Kumar:
_______________________________________________________________________

          Washington Ready to Brand Pakistan a Terrorist State

                     Gerald Bourke in Islamabad
                   Source: The Guardian, London
                   Page 9, Deecmeber 14 ' 1992

The United States government is seriously considering branding
pakistan a terrorist state, Western diplomats in Islamabad said
yesterday.

If it goes ahead, this once staunch American ally would be added
to a list that includes Libya, Iran, Iraq, Syria, North Korea and
Cuba-- all of which are deemed by the state department to be
sponsors of international terrorism.

The point at issue is Pakistan's perceived support for militant
Muslim separatists in Indian-controlled Kashmir.

A report in a local newspaper on Saturday quoted sources "close"
to the state department as saying that "Pakistan's training facilities
and material assistance" to Kashmiri guerillas made its addition to
the list "obligatory".

US legislation requires the state department to submit a list of
states
promoting terrorism to Congress before December 31 each year.

Washington severs air links and bans trade with listed countries. It
encourages other governments to do likewise and presses financial
institutions such as World Bank to suspend loans. "Pakistan, as far as
the United States is concerned, would become a non-country", a
diplomat
said yesterday.

In a letter to the prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, last May, the then
US secretary of state, James Baker, accused "official
agencies" in Pakistan supporting militants in divided Himalyan state
"who have commited act of terrorism". He warned that if the covert aid
did not end, Pakistan would be declared a rogue state.

Little seems to have changed. "The evidence appears to be compellig,"
a Western military source said.

( News report goes on to explain US/Pak relationship over last few
years.)

                               * E N D *
_______________________________________________________________________

Please don't flame me. I get easily scared by death threats.
I have neither written this article nor am I responsible for 
the actions of United States government. Also, there is little 
I can do to make the US change its policies.

Harsh Varma
Department of Computer Science
Rutgers University

Disclaimer: None. Please, everyone adopt my opinion, I am right!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: raza@ee.umr.edu (Md Ishfaqur Raza)
Subject: Re: Victory Day in Bangladesh!!!
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:51:36 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

In article <1992Dec16.173326.45699@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>
> I feel it my moral duty to choke this stupid idiot - malodorous ignorant

> (a good samaritan)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message follows <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>In article <1992Dec16.155819.20631@slate.mines.colorado.edu>, imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM ) writes:
>> In article <BzBwoz.GLG@news.udel.edu> khaleq@brahms.udel.edu (Mohame Khalequzzaman) writes:
>>...... (deleted)......




I really fail to understand why do we take the trouble to react to the posting
of this particular person, over and over again. Mustafa Ibrahim has been
constantly posting articles with only one intention in mind and we have been
catering to his folly. I fail to see the humor in the debate of the nature
that Mustafa I. seems to indulge in. I do not think that it is healthy
for scb in any way, other than creating attrition amongst two presently friendly
nations. The debates end up leading nowhere, on the other hand, Mr Ibrahim is
fabricating information which only he uses successfully to  draw our
attention to. It is heroic to fight fire with fire, but this fire is parasitic,
it needs fire to keep burning. I humbly ask that we create a vacuum and let the
honourable Mr Ibrahim burn out of air.

Md Ishfaqur Raza
.

 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: khan@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (LAHORI POOND)
Subject: Re: Pir Altaf Hussain retires! His greatest contribution!
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:54:11 GMT


Funny that the Pakistani politicans always get some medical emergency only
when they are in deep shi*. First it used to be Madam Bhutto and now the great
leader Altaf Bhai. Oh well ,but whayt really pisses me off is how can the
public be so dumm and stupid so as to blindly follow these so called leaders.



Lahori (catch him on the 28 in K.C) Poond
From: qzuhair@milton.u.washington.edu (Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Mandir Dha dai, Masjid Dha dai
Keywords: riots, Babri Masjid
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:01:59 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

>In article <aftab.724341923@nsisrv> aftab@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Aftab Ahmad;MU-SPIN/CESDIS) writes:
>>	Some saintly person said it:
>>
>>
>>	Mandir dha dai, Masjid dha dai, dha dai jo kujh dhaida
>>	daikh kissay da dil na torei'N Rub dila'N wich rhainda


        Correct!

        "juduon gul muk jai, jida dil tut jai, jidoun choat lugay o janay"


NEWTON....(yes, newton also knew punjabi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Subject: Why is everyone discussing religion on this newsgroup?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 14:46:38 GMT

At the risk of incurring the wrath of Shakil "Wise" Ahmed, who
has earlier chastised me for asking this question, I still feel
compelled to ask the question in the subject line yet again,
given the nature of recent discussions here.

Shakil will reply that religion is a popular issue in our 
subcontinent, and he seems to think that this confers legitimacy
on religious discussion on the subcontinental newsgroups. I 
do not however feel that religious discusion belongs in the
soc.culture hierarchy. I would like to know what other netters
feel about the matter.

Cordially,

-Sayan.
-- 
Sayan Bhattacharyya          |   Colourless green ideas sleep furiously.
Graduate student             |
Artificial Intelligence Lab  |
The University of Michigan   |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: khaleq@brahms.udel.edu (Mohame Khalequzzaman)
Subject: Re: Victory Day in Bangladesh!!!
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 19:51:33 GMT

In article <1gvr9pINNge2@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> shamim@congo.egr.msu.edu (Tariq Shamim) writes:
>
>In article <17DEC199217112110@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov>, towheed@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (NSSDC/NASA/HUGHES STX (301)286-6695) writes:
>>
>> .....stuff deleated......
>>
>>Syed S. Towheed (Long live the Bangali people, hell to 
>				Pakistani cowards  ! )
>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   
>>
>
>You must post an applogy, for using these words.  Otherwise a formal complaint
>will be sent to your system director.   
>
>Tariq Shamim
>Michigan State Univ                                

What apology?  We, the pro-independence Bangladeshis, are proud to hail our
nation.  And yes, we do hate those Pakistani COWARDS who committed atrocities
against the heroic Bangladeshis; and who are not brave enough to come
forward to admit the facts and do not want to apologize for thier acts of
GENOCIDE (evidence of which is unsurfacing even today, read the related
article on scb posted by Saif Ahmed today).  We DO NOT HATE PKAISTANI
PEOPLE, but we do hate the Pkaistani cowards.  Unless anyone from 
Pakistan doesn't want himself/herself with the war crime of 1971, morally
or philosophically, we do not have anything to say against them.

Long live Bangladeshi people (except the collaborators), hell to Pakistani
COWARDS and the War Criminals!!

Khaleq
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ddawson@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Dick Dawson)
Subject: Re: The Finns of Sweden
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 03:56:36 EST

In article <1992Nov23.070019.256@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>.....

>If we consider the treatment of red-indians in USA or in Amazonas
>as genocide the answer is yes, the genocide does not mean only concrete
>killing but destroying one's culture and language. Some may think
>the red-indians of America were not genocided or how you call it
>but they just did not manage to survive. For me genocide
>means destrying one's  culture &language. So my answer is YES.
>It was a genocide.

Uh, Jarmo, the term "red-indian" is not well chosen here.  It is
typically used by US residents of European ancestry as a most
maliciously profound insult to the descendants of the earliest
inhabitants of this land.  It is a vile insult comparable to the use
of the word "nigger" to describe members of the Negro race.  It is
certainly difficult to find a suitable term for members of a
particular group.  Many Americans of African descent prefer to be
known as "African-Americans".  This is a cumbersome term but should be
considered out of respect for people.  Many Americans whose ancestors
have been here far longer than those who came from Europe prefer to be
known as "native Americans" although they frequently use the term
"Indian" when they know that it will not be turned back as an insult. 
The specific form "red-indian" is always an insult.

In actual fact, the native Americans are not truly native in the sense
that their ancestors did immigrate from Asia in the distant past but
they are native by comparison to the rest of us whose ancestors have
been here only a few hundred years.  Most native Americans that I am
aquainted with recognize use of their individual nation's name as a
gesture of respect, eg: Seneca, Onondaga, Navaho...

I pass this information on knowing that delicacies of local practice
are not well known in other areas; I am sure that no insult was
intended in this case.  I read this newsgroup to learn more about
other cultures including my ancestral culture; I pass on this
information in exchange...

It is certainly true that native Americans were oppressed and often
exterminated as part of the conquest of this continent by Europeans;
in fact, some oppression continues today.  There are failings in
people everywhere; we could use to improve our act.

Dick    ddawson@mailbox.syr.edu
From: staff@rabbit.augs.se (Staffan Friberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Traditional Swedish Christmas song
Date: 16 Dec 92 02:59:10 GMT
Organization: Amiga User Group Sweden
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

> are religious in that they mention the word "jul" (x-mas), albeit not
> necessarily connecting it with the religious event.

I'm sorry if I send this thread off in a new direction but I relly must ask
this.

You mention the word "jul" as having a religious meaning. Where does this
word come from? Me and some friends of mine have been talking about this a
lot and we haven't the faintest idea. No words in the languages we know have
words that could be considered related. These languages include swedish,
german, french, japanese and italian.

Anyone????

--

(Yes, I know that this .sig is far too large. It's being redesigned.) :-)


                     ------------------------------
                    / ---------------------------- \
                   /  Staffan Friberg               \
                  /  Undergraduate student           \
                 /  Chemistry                         \
                /  Linkoping University   Sweden       \
               /                                        \
              /                                          \
             /   Life, loathe it or ignore it, you        \
             \ \  can't like it.                        / /
              \ \                       (Marvin)       / /
               \ \                                    / /
                \ \                                  / /
                 \ \EMail:                          / /
                  \ \InterNet: staff@rabbit.augs.se/ /
                   \ \FidoNet: 2:204/404.2        / /
                    --------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg)
Subject: Re: Want to learn to read
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:58:33 GMT

In article <Dec15.031840.77359@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> sastoen@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Susan Stoen) writes:

>P.S.  Enjoy your lutefisk and lefse on Christmas!

Uff da!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,alt.politics.ec,alt.politics.europe.misc
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Subject: Re: Sma grodorna
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<LHE.92Dec17100016@yang.sics.se>
	<1992Dec17.121056.13878@engage.pko.dec.com>
	<1992Dec18.073954.8895@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:21:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.073954.8895@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) writes:

   The OED more or less supports you in this (although it knows some 18 different
   uses of the word, too long to edit and post. If anybody wants the complete
   entry, mail me). It is also interesting to see, that in some languages
   (Danish, Swedish and German come to mind) the word for virgin literally
   translates as 'young woman', i.e. 'jomfru', 'jungfru' and 'Jungfrau'. I even
   once heard a rumour, that the Greek or Hebrew word for Virgin Mary was as
   likely to have the meaning 'young woman' as 'sexually chaste'.

I wouldn't say that "virgin" is literally translated into Swedish as
"jungfru". In most cases, "oskuld" would be a better translation.
Certainly if "virgin" is used in meaning someone who had not had
sexual intercourse, "oskuld" would almost always be the correct
translation.
--
Lars-Henrik Eriksson                            Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science           Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263                                        Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN                         Fax: +46 8 751 72 30
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Mr.Ryyti
Date: 13 Dec 92 01:43:08 GMT
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista

In article <Bz633y.1q1@lut.fi> toast@lut.fi (Tomi Suurn{kki) writes:

   >First, I've used to read this group only for about a year;
   >i.e. the following opinions may not be correct.....

  I don't see how your opinion that Jarmo Ryyti's stuff is enjoyable could
be correct or incorrect! But surely it wasn't a whole year ago that he
last posted it? You should have seen it before.
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:28:53 EST
From: <2971047@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: e-mail UIO.NO

Proev: Postmaster@uio.no

Han/hun vil kunne fortelle deg om vedkommende har tilgang til E-post, evt.
adresse.
                                           gp
From: urf@icl.se (Urban F)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Kalle Dussins arme (was Why Finns should study Swedish)
Date: 14 Dec 92 08:48:53 GMT
Organization: None. On USENET I speak only for myself.
X-Alt.reply-Address: n.g.u.fredriksson.swe2001@oasis.icl.co.uk

ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

>Tor Lillqvist (tml@tik.vtt.fi) wrote:
>: Can this be true? No official statistics in Sweden giving the
>: population's mother tongue?

>Certainly!

>If Sweden followed similar minority politics as Finland most of the major
>Swedish towns should be bi-lingual like Turku, and that is what the
>swedes try to avoid to the last "battle.."

Isn't the rule in Finland that the minority must be at least 5%?
How can you say that this condition is valid in "most" Swedish
towns if there is no valid statistics? (Oh my, it's possible to
read this as if I were a monolingual imperalistic Swede! :-)

Seriously, apart from the parts of Sweden where Finnish is spoken
traditionally (mainly in the north), and Stockholm, what towns do
you think have more than 5% Finnish speaking inhabitants?

(Reason I include Stockholm is that we have lots of Finnish
_citizens_ here, and the number of those with Swedish as their
native language probably is balanced by the those Swedish
citizens with Finnish as their mother tongue. But I don't _know_!)
--
 Urban Fredriksson  urf@icl.se  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hansen@scr.slb.com (Ove Hansen)
Subject: Wanted: recipes for Julegloegg
Organization: Schlumberger Cambridge Research Limited, England
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 16:24:26 GMT

I managed to speak too loudly about Julegloegg and now my friends here in
England want me to make some (a lot) for a Christmas party... the problem
is that I've never done so before from scratch, always got other people to 
make it for me... Does any of my fellow Norwegian countrymen have a good 
recipe for Julegloegg? Recipes from other Nordic countries are  welcome too - 
maybe there are some interesting variations we could try out...?

Cheers in advance, 
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ove Hansen                               e-mail : hansen@scr.slb.com   
Schlumberger Cambridge Research          Tel/fax: 0223-325246 / 0223-315486
P.O.Box 153, Cambridge CB3 0HG, England  (International prefix for UK: 44)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: cindy@solan10.solan.unit.no (Cynthia Kandolf)
Subject: Re: Want to learn to read and speak Norwegian.  Recommendations?
Organization: /home/ludviga/cindy/.organization
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:26:56

The best way to learn Norwegian is, of course, to live in Norway for a
year or so.  Unfortunately, this isn't always practical.  Let's assume
it isn't in your case... if you live in an area where a lot of people
are descended from Norwegians, there may be a language course offered
through an adult education or university outreach program.  If that
isn't practical for you, either, there are a number of self-teaching
programs (you know, the book-and-tape things) which you could order
through a bookstore.  I learned my Norwegian in a classroom setting,
so i know nothing about them.  

As far as dialects, yes, there are lots of dialects in Norwegian.
There is no single spoken standard.  There are two written standards,
bokmaal and nynorsk.  Television and radio announcers usually just
read one of those two standards aloud with a standard, vanilla sort of
pronunciation.  It sounds pretty weird sometimes but at least is
widely understood.  Any course you find, whether organized or
self-teaching, will probably teach you to read and write bokmaal and
speak with an Oslo dialect.  

Norwegian looks more threatening than it is.  The pronunciation can be
wicked for an English speaker, but the sentence structure and so on is
very similar to English, and there is little inflection.  (In other
words, you don't have to put endings on the nouns to show what case
it is in, there is only one verb form for each tense rather than a
form for each person, and so on.)  The important thing is to practice
it.  Grab any native speaker you can find!

Another point i should make is that i always found Norwegians very
helpful while i was learning the language.  Sometimes too helpful,
they'd try to switch to English to help me out!  

-Cindy Kandolf
 cindy@solan.unit.no
 Trondheim, Norway

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu (raymond thomas pierrehumbert)
Subject: Recipe for Julvort
Reply-To: rtp1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:39:50 GMT


Jul igen!  Our favorite shop down at Andersonville doesn't
seem to have any julvort (spiced Christmas bread) this year,
so we'll have to try to make our own.  Could somebody send
or post a recipe?  I know it contains brewers' yeast, but
there are some other mystery spices in there too I haven't
been able to figure out.

It will be much appreciated.