HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbrandt@cs.utexas.edu (David Brandt)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Looking for common problems in TCP implementations
Date: 5 Oct 1992 13:17:01 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: latexo.cs.utexas.edu

I am looking for references to common problems with TCP
implementations.  I have read "An Analysis of TCP Processing
Overhead" and am looking for similar articles.

Thanks,
David Brandt
dbrandt@cs.utexas.edu
From: MEENA@bkmain.east-london.ac.uk (Meena Aggarwal-Sood)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: load balancer
Date: 6 Oct 1992 08:33:30 -0500
Organization: University Of East London
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I wish to investigate/develop a system "load balancer" which would
balance the usage of machine load (cpu and i/o) acroos a
network of Unix machines.


All info would be most welcome

Please reply to


meena@bkmain.pel.ac.uk

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: shlam@eng.ie.cuhk.hk (Alan S H Lam)
Subject: Can dialupip20 can talk with slip?
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, The Chinese U. of Hong Kong
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:32:03 GMT


I am going to installed dialupip20 at DEC workstation.
I wonder if the dialupip20 can talk with the 386BSD
slip driver through modem?

If anyone know the answer, please send me a e-mail. 
I will very appreciate it.

Thanks.

--
Alan S. H. Lam
Department of Information Engineering, CUHK, Hong Kong
E-mail: shlam@eng.ie.cuhk.hk 
Tel: (852) 609 7975 Fax: (852) 603 5032
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: mgic <mgic@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: TCP and reliable transaction processing?
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 15:20:10 GMT


How can TCP be used for *reliable* transaction processing?
I don't see anything in TCP that will inform the sender of data that
the receiver did not receive the data. For example, the completion
of a write() statement does not mean data was transferred through
a network and delivered to the remote process. (The data might be
in the other process' TCP buffers, but not read by the process.)

Using TCP, how can an application-level protocol 
be designed for synchronous communications? 

	The client must know that the server has received a record.

	The server must know that the client knows that it has 
	received the record.

Simply having the server send an application-level "ACK" does not completely
solve the problem, because the server does not know if the ACK was
read by the client process.  Thank you for the help you may provide.

Dean
-- 
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: kre@cs.mu.oz.au (Robert Elz)
Subject: Re: Where is the "Big-Internet" mailing list?
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:25:39 GMT

In <430@tots.UUCP> tep@tots.Logicon.COM (Tom Perrine) writes:

| Does it exist?  What is it named.  Who do I contact?

It exists.  Its called Big-Internet.  And Big-Internet-Request@munnari.OZ.AU
(Archives are in big-internet/list-archives on munnari.oz.au).

kre
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: yost@adobe.com (David Yost)
Subject: Re: what does completion of write() really mean?
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:57:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.201735.5096@PA.dec.com> mohanram@wsl.dec.com (Narayan Mohanram) writes:
>The concept of sync (unix) does not really apply here. `sync' is for
>forcing out buffered data that the operating system is deliberatly (sp?)
>delaying to improve system performance. In the socket case, the data is
>not being delayed by the os. it is being delayed by the protocol/network
>bandwidth. the os does attempt to send out data without delaying (exect
>for those implementing nagle..).

And what about "those implementing nagle" or whatever?
It is well known that buffering is useful for
performance in the case of small or irregular-sized
writes, at least as an option.  Thus when designing an
I/O API one should provide a push (a.k.a. flush or sync) call.

 --dave yost
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: pwilson@world.std.com (Pete Wilson)
Subject: New Product: Universal SNMP Agent
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:41:15 GMT

Of possible interest: Paul Freeman Assoc. announces the Universal SNMP Agent: 
a portable, compact, cost-effective, fully-compliant, multi-MIB Agent for 
installation under any modern OS on any platform. For a product description, 
send e-mail to pwilson@world.std.com or call 508-692-4436.
From: shafer@CS.ColoState.EDU (spencer shafer)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: How to write TCP/IP specs in a procurement
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:08:27 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department


  1. Does it make sense to reference the RFC's, i.e. does it do
     anything?
     2. What RFC's should I use?

     Also, if I want to specify the application gateway between OSI
     and TCP is there a way to do that?

     Would appreciate any help.....


-- 
/\__________________________________________________________________/\
||                     SPENCER SHAFER                               ||
|| email:shafer@handel.cs.colostate.edu    Work Phone: 303-498-0901 ||
\/------------------------------------------------------------------\/
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.unix.sysv386
From: Dean.Roth <Dean.Roth@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Anyone using ka9q for UNIX?
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1992 22:25:43 GMT


Is anyone using the UNIX ka9q TCP/IP software? If so, I'd like
to correspond with you in an attempt to solve some problems.
Thank you.

Dean
From: terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Sockets library
Date: 30 Sep 1992 21:43:26 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ralph.eece.ksu.edu
Summary: PD Sockets library for SysV R 3.2

I am looking for a public domain sockets library available for SysV
R3.2.  At this point, it does not need to talk to a network card, it
just needs to provide a sockets ingerface on the local machine.  Any
information would be greatly appreciated.

--
Terry Hull  -  terry@eece.ksu.edu
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University
From: k@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Steve Kao)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:34:05 GMT
Subject: Re: TCP/IP Printers.
Organization: HP Roseville Networks Division
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip

Timothy Lange:
> I'm looking for a TCP/IP ready printer to connect via Ethernet.  I
> have seen lots of IPX and Appletalk ready printers but none for TCP/IP
> (lpd).  Has anyone seen such a machine?

HP has several printers that work over tcp/ip.  For LaserJets II, IID,
III, and IIID, you can get either the C2071S (for twisted-pair) or
C2071T (for Thin co-ax) cards for the printer.  The LaserJet IIISi, you
can get the C2059T card.

QMS also has a tcp/ip printer.

- Steve Kao
From: axa12@po.CWRU.Edu (Ashok Aiyar)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Questions on B & W TCP/IP package for PCs
Date: 5 Oct 1992 21:26:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: axa12@po.CWRU.Edu (Ashok Aiyar)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


I have the following (novice) questions on B&W TCP/IP.

a) Does it work with Crynwyr (Clarkson ?) packet drivers?
b) Does it permit me to configure a PC as SMTP server?
	What about POP2 or POP3 server?
c) How much does it cost, and where can I obtain more information
	about it?

Thank you,

Ashok
P.S. Replies to axa12@po.cwru.edu or to c.p.t-i.i
-- 
                          Ashok Aiyar
   		       axa12@po.cwru.edu
                Visit the IBM-PC Sig on Freenet
From: gt@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Glenn Talbott)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:11:13 GMT
Subject: Re: Why Token Ring?
Organization: HP Roseville Networks Division
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc

>I'm not trying to start an Ethernet/Token-Ring flame war here.  I
>just would like an answer to the question "Why Token Ring?"  There
>must be some non-obvious reason why someone would use a networking
>technology where the adapters cost four times that of Ethernet...
>
>-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>  I'm proud to be a humble Quaker!
>Crynwr Software            Crynwr Software sells packet driver support.
>11 Grant St.               315-268-1925 Voice
>Potsdam, NY 13676          315-268-9201 FAX
>----------

Because it's pushed by someone big & blue :-)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: eschwart@netcom.Netcom.COM (Eric Schwartz)
Subject: NCSA Telnet on an XT
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 14:30:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Service
Distribution: comp

Can someone offer me some very basic NCSA Telnet installation tips?  I'm
hooking up an XT to a NeXT, and on the XT side I have edited the CONFIG.TEL
file so that the MYIP line is set to a unique address, and there is a 
HARDWARE=PACKET line.

I have an EtherCard PLUS Elite, and a packet driver called "8003PKDR.EXE" which
came on a disk with the board.

So far neither computer recognizes the other, but I'm at a loss for what to
do next.

Thanks,

Eric
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: randy@chinet.chi.il.us (Randy Suess)
Subject: Re: Xircom Network Simplicity uses bogus adapters?
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 17:22:42 GMT

In article <BvG82z.5Fp@world.std.com> ehrlich@world.std.com (Stuart R Ehrlich) writes:
>So does anyone have first-hand experience using the adapters in the Simplicity
>kit with the 'regular' Xircom drivers for NDIS, ODI, and PD?
>
	Yep, use it on my laptop with Novell 3.11 and FTP software's
	PC/TCP.  I use the supplied lsl.com, pesmlid.com (the ODI driver
	for the Xircom), ipxodi and odipkt along with the packet driver
	version of ethdrv.exe.  Most of this loads hi on a 386 with
	QEMM386.  The adapter is very slow, however, bout 24k per second
	on ftp transfer (compared to over 250k with the same 386 system
	using a wd8003e).  It does work.  I use it with 386bsd on the
	laptop.  I boot dos, ftp stuff over to the dos partition, then
	boot 386bsd and mtool it over to 386bsd.


-- 
	I am created Shiva the Destroyer; Death, the shatterer of worlds!
	Who is this dog meat who stands before me now?
	That's the biz, sweetheart.
Randy Suess					 randy@chinet.chi.il.us
From: tim@rri.UUCP (Tim Buck)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Questions about PC/TCP from FTP Software
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:51:04 GMT
Organization: Recognition Research Inc., Blacksburg, VA

I have a few questions about the PC/TCP package from FTP Software that I doubt
they'd be too interested in answering.

Do the Univ. of Maryland (MD-DOS/IP) TCP/IP applications (FTP, TELNET, etc.)
work with the PC/TCP kernel?

How about the NFS implementation provided with MD-DOS/IP?

Has anyone tried this combination yet?

Timothy Buck   --   rri!tim@vtserf.cc.vt.edu OR timbuck@borg.lib.vt.edu
 Recognition Research, Inc. (703) 231-6500	++ NeXTmail accepted ++
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Hate Blacksburg's weather? Wait an hour.  Hate the season? Wait a day.
From: robert@arbo.microbiol.uwa.oz.au (Robert Coelen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: QVTNET_DIR variable where is it set ?
Date: 29 Sep 1992 03:11:54 GMT
Organization: University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: mve.microbiol.uwa.edu.au

Hi,

Can anyone tell me where to set the QVTNET_DIR variable to specify
a directory for my rc files ?

Thanks for the assistance
From: spoelhof@kodak.com (Gordon C. Spoelhof)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: NNTP News Reader
Keywords: NNTP
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:38:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: eastman.3742
Reply-To: spoelhof@kodak.com (Gordon C. Spoelhof)
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company - Health Sciences Division

Where can I find a NNTP news reader for the IBM/PC?
Specifics:  MS/DOS 5
            STB Ethernet Card, (but he has a 3com in his desk)
            TCP/IP (FTP Software)
Please reply by mail as I am posting this on behalf of a friend.

Thanks in advance,

Gordon Spoelhof


Gordon Spoelhof / Eastman Kodak Co. / HSD 2-8-C-39105
100 Carlson Road / Rochester, NY 14653-9105
e-mail:  spoelhof@kodak.com       phone: (716)253-9734
Xref: sparky comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc:5541 comp.dcom.lans.ethernet:2091
From: ehrlich@world.std.com (Stuart R Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Xircom Network Simplicity uses bogus adapters?
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:23:23 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

Does Network Simplicity kit from Xircom include REAL Ethernet pocket adapters?

This special package is available for about $400 and includes 2 pocket
ethernet adapters, 2 copies of Netware Lite, an Email package, and some more.
Since a Xircom pocket adapter goes for about $250 alone, I wondered how this
could be.  I called Xircom and they said they are _SPECIAL_ pocket
adapters, that only work with the Netware Lite software!  They implied
that the adapters in this kit would _NOT_ work with the normal drivers
supplied by Xircom (for NDIS, ODI, and Packet Drivers).

If I can get this package for $400 and still use the pocket adapters on
my other systems with NDIS, ODI, and Packet Drivers (not at the same time
of course), I'd be very happy.

So does anyone have first-hand experience using the adapters in the Simplicity
kit with the 'regular' Xircom drivers for NDIS, ODI, and PD?
From: "richard hajinlian" <richard.hajinlian@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: segmnt/dgm traces?
Date: 28 Sep 92 08:35:48 EST
Reply-To: "richard hajinlian" <richard.hajinlian@channel1.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

I've tried to collect trace data on my system but nothing (it appears)
was obtained when i tried to format the trace.  any guesses?

I have the latest release of TCP/IP for os2 ans (running along side of
that stack) I have lanserver.  I would like to trace the ip datagrams
destined for my socket addr and I can't.

Thanks for your replies.
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: PIRARD@VM1.ULG.AC.BE (Andre' PIRARD)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Re: Eight bit characters with CUTCP?
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:22:13 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Liege (Belgium), SEGI (Computing Center)

On Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:20:21 GMT Stephen C. Trier said:
>
>In article <MARK.92Sep2124640@gopher.dosli.govt.nz> mark@gopher.dosli.govt.nz
> (Mark Wright) writes:
>>When the application is accessed via cutcp, it looks to me like the eighth bit
>>is being ignored (I get text instead).
>
>CUTCP uses a strict interpretation of both the VT102 and Telnet specs.  The
>Telnet spec says a telnet connection is seven bits only unless Binary mode
>has been negotiated, while the VT102 docs say that a VT102 can only handle
>seven-bit data.

Gossip. Telnet is restricted to 7-bits for the NVT only.
Binary is just one way to get out of NVT mode, but not a good one, because
it looses EOL.
Negotiating a terminal type is another, and if the terminal is an 8-bit
one, 8-bit transmission is perfectly valid, and silly to restrict.
Higher VT (2.. and up) models *are* 8-bit terminals to support ISO 8859-1
(similar to DEC international).
AND, it is no sin to extend to 8-bit the character code a supposed VT100
can display and input (still restricted to VT100 controls) if this is
is useful to people (in fact, this is just slightly deviating from behavior
of a VT100 set up for 8-bit).

>No.  You have to understand that there's more than one "eight bit graphics"
>character set, too.  Which one do you need?  Do you want ISO 8859-1, IBM
>Code Page 437, DEC Special and Graphics characters, or something else?

PC codes are definitely a bad choice, because the characters conflict with
control codes in the range 80-9F.
ISO 8859 (-1 or other) is the best choice (and -1 is similar to DEC).
It's a question of program setup, like terminal setup anyway.

Note that this is just one aspect of the PC problem.
It uses a proprietary code.
Generally speaking, TCP/IP protocols on the PC should translate the
ISCI standard ISO 8859-1 of the comm line to PC 850.

Finally, have you noticed that CUTCP does *not* strip the 8th bit for rlogin?

Andr'e PIRARD         SEGI, Univ. de Li`ege          139.165 IP Adm.
B26 - Sart Tilman     B-4000 Li`ege 1 (Belgium)      +32 (41) 564932
pirard@vm1.ulg.ac.be  alias PIRARD@BLIULG11.BITNET
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: eretherf@mcs.kent.edu (Eric Von Retherford)
Subject: Help with CHARON needed.
Originator: eretherf@Chaos.mcs.kent.edu
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 11:47:56 GMT

According to the CHARON manual we need a Domain Name Server on our
network. Well we don't have one. Is there a way to work around this
or is there domain server software that will work with Unix Sys5?
Thanks.

-- 

Eric Von Retherford                                      Kent State University
eretherf@kent.mcs.edu         "You're banging coconuts" "Run away! Run away!!"
From: DAN@ACS.UWLAX.EDU (Dan Abts - UWL Network Manager)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Re: bootpd for DOS or Windows?
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:12:54 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

>Anyone know of a pd version of a bootp server for DOS or Win31?  I have a
>copy of PC/TCP for OS/2, which includes bootpd, but I need to set up
>severalbootp servers - at $400 a pop plus the hardware capable of running OS/
>2 it's expensive.  I hope to find something that runs under DOS 3.3 so I can
>usesome surplus 3Com 3Stations (diskless 286).
>
The one I use to serve hundreds of machines on a dozen subnets is an
LPD 1.4 beta from tacky.cs.olemiss.edu.  I just use the bootp part on
an old IBM with a network card and a floppy drive.  At boot time the
bootptab is copied to a ramdisk so the floppy is not accessed with
each bootp request.  This has worked fine for several years.  The
only problem I have with it is that the screen scrolls when it
gets a request from a machine it doesn't have in the bootptab file.
There is a 1.5 version available but it has a problem finding the
bootptab file.  It used to be in /pub/lpd but seems to me the moved
it to /pub/ncsa/lpd since it is based on ncsa. If you can't get 1.5 to
work either and can't find the 1.4 beta, let me know.


Dan Abts                                    ABTS@UWLAX.EDU
Academic Computing Services                 ABTS@UWLAX.BITNET
Univ. of WI - La Crosse                     (608) 785-8031
1725 State St.                              (608) 785-8907 FAX
La Crosse, WI  54601                        N9PZC
From: robert@arbo.microbiol.uwa.oz.au (Robert Coelen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: KA9Q with a POP3 server
Date: 30 Sep 1992 23:21:51 GMT
Organization: University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: mve.microbiol.uwa.edu.au

Hi,

Any idea where I can get a KA9Q with a POP3 server (probably a FAQ)

Thanks for the assistance


Robert Coelen
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: ian@unipalm.co.uk (Ian Phillipps)
Subject: Re: Why Token Ring?
Organization: Unipalm Ltd., 216 Cambridge Science Park, Cambridge CB4 4WA, UK
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 08:58:57 GMT

nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes:

>In article <1992Sep27.172155.5559@utdallas.edu> karches@utdallas.edu writes:

>Even if Token Ring were double the speed of Ethernet, how could that
>justify a quadruple increment in cost?

Not to mention wiring which is more difficult to install. Who designed
those connectors?  I, like Russell, am a little puzzled as to why
companies install these things.

From my desk, I can see a multisegment ethernet repeater flickering
away to itself. *Very* occasionally, the red light (collision) flashes;
this is with a dozen Suns, and 50 PCs all hammering NFS at a group of
fileservers.  The theory was that it would get replaced by a bridge or
router when the ethernet was too heavily loaded, but it just ain't
happened.

We also have a number of customer who have installed Token Rings for
their PCs, and have to "bridge" (James van B bridles at this point) to
Ethernet for their servers. Wierd.

Ian
-- 
Ian Phillipps, Unipalm Ltd, 216 Science Park,		Phone +44 223 420002
Milton Road, Cambridge, CB4 4WA, England.		Phax  +44 223 426868
	print unpack( u,q,9:G5S="!A;F]T:&5R('!E<FP@:&%C:V5R"@``,.'');
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: david@aim1.aztec.co.za (David Mason)
Subject: Wanted: PD NFS client for DOS
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:25:31 GMT
Organization: Aztec Information Management

I run a Novell & a Dell SVR4 Unix box as servers, with a DOS PC as my
workstation.  So far the combination of packet driver, Novell mapped
drives, windows 3.1 and CUTCP has given me a very good workstation 
environment.  I'm looking to NFS mount drives from the Unix box onto
the PC, but so far all I've come across are (expensive for me) packages
like FTP plus and PC-NFS from Sunsoft.

Is there a PD NFS client that I can use on my PC to get to the disk 
on Unix?  Seems to me that it would be a logical part of the DOS 
networking setup.  Alternativly, is there a good reason why something 
like this hasn't been written and put in the Public Domain?

Thanks for your help.
-- 
David Mason, Unix system support.
Aztec Information Systems, Cape Town, South Africa.
"It talks to me in gibberish like `ProComm', a term that is unnerving to a 
survivor of the McCarthy era",      Mary McGrory in The Washington Post.
From: karches@utdallas.edu (Tom Karches)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Re: Why Token Ring?
Date: 27 Sep 92 17:21:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: utdallas.1992Sep27.172155.5559
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas

In article <717472264snx@crynwr.com> nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes:
>I'm not trying to start an Ethernet/Token-Ring flame war here.  I
>just would like an answer to the question "Why Token Ring?"  There
>must be some non-obvious reason why someone would use a networking
>technology where the adapters cost four times that of Ethernet...
>

My understanding of one of the advantages of Token Ring over Ethernet is that
as loading on the network increases, the degradation of performance is much
more linear than Ethernet. In Token Ring, control of the network is fairly
evenly divided up between adapters on the network. With Ethernet, all
adapters attempting to send packets compete for network control. 

Even though the maximum potential throughput in Ethernet is 10Mbps, this
figure is never approached in practice (in my experience.)

If I am misinformed, please correct me. I think we all could learn
something in this exchange.

Peace,
Tom Karches
karches@utdallas.edu
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Karches          |"If rap music had been around when I was a kid,
karches@utdallas.edu | I would have become a musician instead of a politician."
karches@holonet.net  '-------------------------------------- Richard Nixon