From: pelegrin@brol.greco-prog.fr (Francois PELLEGRINI)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.french
Subject: Re: Guns, and the necessity to trust our governement.
Keywords: guns and surrealism
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:58:00 GMT
Organization: GRECO Programmation du CNRS - Bordeaux,France

In article <5839@transfer.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug21.124205.20346@greco-prog.fr>, pelegrin@zephyr.greco-prog.fr (Francois PELLEGRINI) writes:
|> > In article <dusek.714328776@shale>, dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James Dusek) writes:
|> > |> pelegrin@brol.greco-prog.fr (Francois PELLEGRINI) writes:
|> > 
|> > |> >- Having heard that our truck drivers were supported by the communist party,
|> > |> >  he wants to play Rambo in a foreign country, as he is allowed to by
|> > |> >  the brand-new U.S. law (A-me-ri-ca !! A-me-ri-ca !!!!!).
|> > |> 
|> > |> 	What law are you talking about? And please refrain from America
|> > |> bashing.

|> > 	I was talking about the U.S. Supreme Court saying that it was not
|> > anti-constitutional to have american forces arrest people outside the frontiers
|> > of the United States, whether the implied foreign country agreed or not.

|> So you admit that when you referred to a "brand-new US law" you were simply
|> talking through your hat.  Thank you for being honest.  As you explain, there 
|> is no such law.  In fact, all the Supreme Court said was that NO American law 
|> or American/Mexican treaty even covers this particular case, from the 
|> Constitution on down.  You can be sure that, after the current scramble for
|> re-election is over, one of our busy little congressmen will file such a bill.

	Using the word "law" was, in my original article, faster than evocating
this whole affair. "fact", or "state of mind" would have been more accurate,
I admit.

|> By the way, the SC did NOT say that the activity was right, moral, approved,
|> or condoned.  They simply said there was no way to prosecute it in the US.
|> (In fact, several justices said that the implication of their decision -- 
|> that the agents got away with it -- was simply awful, but the decision itself 
|> was the only one they could possibly have made.)

|> > 	As I can remember, it was a justification after the the U.S. police did
|> > effectively arrest someone (a drug dealer, I think) in Mexico, without warning
|> > the Mexican forces.
|> 
|> As I recall, he was involved in the torture of a US agent, which is a little
|> less politically correct even on your side of the pond.

In this case, I only consider legality against brute force.
	If he tortured this agent in the U.S., extradition procedures could be
used. If he did so in Mexico, it is to the Mexican law to act, with this
additional question: what was this agent doing in Mexico? If he was working
with mexican forces, it is OK, else he could be considered as a foreign agent,
and prosecuted. Every country has laws to prevent foreign actions on its soil,
and it is a question of mutual respect between countries to admit them.
Would you tolerate Iranians going to the U.S. and kidnapping Salman Rushdie if he
were here?

|> > 	If this is not a law stricto sensu, it encourages and justifies such
|> > actions, as foreign countries cannot trial the U.S. justice for such
|> > violations.

|> Bullshit.  They are free to try anyone they catch on their own soil, or anyone
|> who falls under an extradition treaty between them and us.  In this instance,
|> neither was the case.  After all, US agents are subject to foreign laws and 
|> foreign justice in foreign countries.  All the SC said is that there is no US 
|> law to prosecute these people for crimes committed outside the US, and that
|> there was no category under the extradition treaty that covered them.

	US agents are subject to foreign laws? Ha-ha-ha!!! I am almost sure that
kidnapping is condemned by Mexican law.
	Could these US agents be extraded to Mexico? I would find it rather
funny, and quite normal after the US, GB, and France requesting Libyan government
to send them their agents...
	
|> > 	This is the kind of actions I cannot refrain from bashing...
|> > 	And I bash who I want, whenever I want to!! Na!

|> Bash away, Francois.  We've all heard the tune, and we all know the words.

	Should you also know to play the guitar, I would still bash...


						f.p.
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