From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: Re: Observations
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:45:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.154720.26829@advtech.uswest.com> stevens@eatdust (John Stevens) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.204604.21764@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes:
>>No, technically, you should be allow to preach  all you want.
>
>'technically'?  "Captain, I sense contradiction with previously stated
>beliefs".  :-)

I admitted that you were at least partially correct.

>>That
>>is guaranteed in the Constitution. But if you harrass me on the street with
>>preaching, I'll pop you in the kisser.
>
>Define harassment.  You sound pretty hypocritical to me.  You believe in
>personal choice and the freedom from having other people's beliefs forced
>on you, but you would force your beliefs on others. . . 

I attempted to make a distinction between personal freedoms to express one's
self and breathing down people's necks.

If I was escorting my friend into an abortion clinic and some zealot 
started shouting obscenities at me and her, I'm afraid I'd have to 
express myself.

I presume you can list similar differences between free speech and being
an asshole.

>I have NEVER seen a street preacher harass.  He may exercise his right
>to free speech in an irritating, insulting or even ridiculous way, but
>not harass.

Harass:

1) To disturb or irritate persistently.
2) To wear out: exhaust.
3) To enervate [an enemy] by repreated raids.

I'd say I've seen street preachers do all those, including blowing up 
clinics.

What do you need to see?

>>I've really had quite enough of the
>>sanctimonious scum hanging around bitching at people about how immoral
>>they are. 
>
>Then why do you do it?  I've received numerous postings from others on the
>net as well, telling me what scum I am, making judgements on my sexuality,
>intelligence, mental and moral state.

I don't think you're scum, I think you are so wrapped up in an emotional 
issue that you are focussing only on how things affect you personally.
That can happen to anyone and probably happens to everyone at one time or
another.  Some get over it, others don't.  I can see you do have some 
venomous attributes common to the religious zealots who are out to save each
other.  That strikes me as a psychological disorder more than assholism 
though.

Why don't I pop you in the kisser? If you were shouting your most vile posts
at me as I walk into a clinic, I probably would. Posting twisted and rude
posts is a large part of what the net is about. I'm not going to punch you
out because you do what a lot of other people do on the net. I can always
unsubscribe. Carry on. 

>You your self have been pretty sanctimonious.

I'm not telling you what to do with your body. 

>>The issue wasn't preaching anyway. I erred in my explanation of that.  What
>>I should have said is "don't force your system of personal responsibility
>>on the rest of us."
>
>Why not?  Enforcing beliefs on the community is what law is all about.

There are arbitrary beliefs based on weakly organized moral issues (laws
on smoking dope, sodomy etc. which are ignored and most people agree are 
idiotic, including cops) and there are beliefs that your body and more personal
issues are state material.  People have tolerated laws against sodomy 
and pot smoking because they can still, for the most part, continue 
doing what they like.

>In Colorado, for instance, prostitution is illegal.  What is that but
>enforcing the beliefs of others?

Put that in with a stupid law like banning pot. Hopefully the legal system
will be allowed to grow up and stop wasting money trying to regulate things
it can't regulate. You'll being seeing more of us, whom you call the pro-
aborts, as you try to limit our personal freedoms.

Abortion is an issue that will get us going.


>>You can preach all you want but when you try to make
>>laws governing my life according to your system of 'responsibility', 
>>expect a fight.
>
>I never expected anything else.  Just be prepared to loose.  After all,
>you could, you know.

I doubt it. We haven't started playing the game like you guys yet. Maybe
we should start using your tactics and slanderize you publicly and blow
up baptist churches? You haven't *seen* action. Not enough pro-choice
people take you guys seriously (a problem) but when they see you affecting
the goverment, they'll start moving.

Look what the abortion issue has done to the Republican platform. Keep
up the good work!

(I am not a democrat and I'm not party affiliated, but I'm pretty sick of
the Reagan/Bush trickly up theory of economics and their recent reformation
of fascism and racism.)



-- 
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Perpetual Student                                   knapp@spot.colorado.edu