From: martinc@grover.cs.unc.edu (Charles R. Martin)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Credibility and Trueness
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:36:53
Organization: UNC Department of Computer Science
	<ewright.727932461@convex.convex.com>
	<1993Jan26.001314.27695@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
	<MARTINC.93Jan26103259@grover.cs.unc.edu>
	<ewright.728075030@convex.convex.com>
	<MARTINC.93Jan26173927@grover.cs.unc.edu>
	<ewright.728156588@convex.convex.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grover.cs.unc.edu
In-reply-to: ewright@convex.com's message of Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:43:08 GMT

In article <ewright.728156588@convex.convex.com> ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:

   In <MARTINC.93Jan26173927@grover.cs.unc.edu> martinc@grover.cs.unc.edu (Charles R. Martin) writes:

   >   Good start.  Before you know it, you'll have to add a second shelf. 

   >That's why God invented tearsheets.

   Tearing sheets out of books is tacky, Charlie.  Even the great Gatsby
   did better than that.  Besides, if you meet one of the authors and
   want an autograph, he'll have no place to sign.

   Keep building that library, though. 

"Tear sheets" is the technical term for copies of one's own writing that
can be duplicated and sent to prospective markets.


   >   You mean you weigh 20-60 pounds more than Arnold Schwarzenegger,
   >   Lou Ferigno, Hulk Hogan, or "Refrigerator?"  That is impressive,
   >   if true.

   >You've missed the part about Perry fighting to get his weight down, eh?

   I'm not even sure who Perry is.  I presume someone on the net,
   but I don't see what that has to do with the question I asked. 

"Refrigerator" Perry.  He's a football player.  If you don't know who he
is, why'd you bring him up?


   >Anyway, what I mean precisely is that my body fat has crept up to around
   >21 percent, when various people would claim it ought to be maybe 5-15
   >percent to be really good.  

   And that's your problem right there.  Listen to yourself.  You 
   feel bad because various *other* people think your body far ought
   to be less than it is.  Richard Feynman wrote a book called "What
   Do You Care What Other People Think?" -- a question you would
   do well to ask yourself.  If *you* think your body fat ought
   to be less then, fine, do something about it, but why do something
   just because other people (most of whom you don't even know) think 
   you ought to?  Who are they to tell you how to live your life? 

Ed, you silly ass, listen to *your* self.  I just told you I'm happy
with myself, and dating successfully, even IF others would say I was
20-60 lbs overweight.  

   >   However, I doubt you would ever be satisfied with your body
   >   no matter what it looked like.  You could be Mr. Fitness himself,
   >   and you'd probably still moan about how you "should be" doing more.

   >You just aren't hearing me, are you, Ed?  I'm saying precisely the
   >opposite -- I'm aware of what I'd like to do for my own vanity, and what
   >needs to be done to make that work out.  

   Well, you weren't saying that in the last paragraph, but, I forget,
   you don't want me to assume that what you write is what you mean.

   Another question you might ask yourself is whether vanity is really
   a desireable quality.  Read the story of Narcissus sometime and find
   out what narcissism really means.

I'm happy with myself even if I'm slightly vain about my appearance.
Are you suggesting I should change a quality I'm not unhappy about?
On what basis?

   >You just aren't getting it.  *I* don't feel inadequate.  Just the
   >opposite.  

   Yet your words say otherwise.  I know, I shouldn't assume that
   what you write is what you mean...

You still aren't hearing me, Ed.  I'm happy.  I don't feel inadequate.
I don't feel inadequate EVEN THOUGH I have arguable failings.  I've said
that over and over again: shall we take a poll and find out what
proportion of the readers have thought I was saying I felt unhappy and
inadequate?  I don't feel inadequate even though some people would say
I'm overweight.  I don't feel inadequate even though I just left a
failing marriage.  I am happy even though I'm single -- which you claim
isn't possible.  But rather than accept what I write, you're forced into
assuming that I don't mean what I said rather than deal with the
contradiction. 

   >Five years ago I did.  What's the difference?  Three years of
   >therapy. 

   If you choose to attribute your change to the alignment of
   your id and ego, or the planets, or the crystal forces, well,
   then, I can't convince you otherwise.  I prefer less mystical
   interpretations of reality.

Hmmm.  So something happened to make me feel better.  I ascribe it to
years of hard, painful work in therapy, a process widely known to have
helped others.  You prefer to believe it was some mysterious other
process.  And *I'm* using a mystical interpretation of reality?

   >But Ed -- it there's nothing wrong with me, and I'm happy, successful,
   >and dating up a storm, that's easily explained.

   >Why are you unhappy and not dating?

   I have already answered that question, Charlie, at length.  The
   short version is that no woman who I've been interested in has
   ever been interested in me.  But my explanation is based on my
   analysis of the available data, which you reject because it
   doesn't fit your existing theories.

Ed, I still think that the reason you're unhappy is that you're at heart
an asshole.



--
		Charles R. Martin/(Charlie)/martinc@cs.unc.edu
     Dept. of Computer Science/CB #3175 UNC-CH/Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3175
	    3611 University Dr #13M/Durham, NC 27707/(919) 419 1754
     "Oh God, please help me be civil in tongue, pure in thought, and able
      to resist the temptation to laugh uncontrollably.  Amen." -- Rob T
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