HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: Will PC Makers Survive Mutimedia?? 
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 13:59:27 GMT

>Mammals is in fact quite good, although strictly speaking it is not an MPC
>title. Both the Beethovan and Mozart CD's would never be enough to convince
>anyone to buy a 12" monitor+computer in order to listen to them. They really
>have a limited audience, especially on that solitary unit known as a 
>computer.

There is no law that says you must buy a CD-ROM based computer for a
single title.  Most CD-ROM drives ship with three or four BUNDLED!

>As for an encyclopedia, I haven't seen the one Microsoft is coming out with,
>but I have yet to see an encyclopedia on a computer better than Grolier's,
>and that exists for CDTV. Compton's has never been taken seriously in book
>form. Why both spending $500 to listen to the thing? Now, the Oxford 
>dictionary is another matter. I really think that CD-ROM's are only of use
>for delivery of large programs, and not as a unit to use these on. It's far
>too slow.

This too shall pass.  Ever heard of "multispin?"  Compton's is not
$500.00.  As I recall it was QUITE cheap, compared to the other two (I
think there are three big encyclopedias).  And I am looking forward to
Microsoft's.  They claim it will be the first encyclopedia made by and
for computers, instead of ported from a book.  This should be
interesting.

>I didn't say they were better. I said they had more potential. They are 
>family oriented and computers are solitary devices. 

Why are they more "family oriented."  Because they work off of a TV and
are a little (a very little) cheaper?
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Tuesday, 5 Jan 1993 01:27:33 EST
From: <CTLCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: CBM makes dealers look like liers

CBM has again made it's dealers look bad. Besides the fact that they never
inform dealers on upcoming products and the dealers are the last to know
anything that CBM does, they also give us shipping dates that they never stick
too. CBM promiced us that we would have A1200s on Dec 28 1992. We were to
recieve 24 machines. We never got them. We did get a shipment the next day of
A2000s and 600s, but we only recieved 2 a1200s. Customers who we told about the
 shippment were extremely angry and hostile. We called our CBM rep and they tol
d us that they would send 10 of the UPS red label. It never arrived. We finally
recieved 18 today. Not UPS red like they said they would do.

This and other things CBM do are the reasons why a majority of dealers don't
carry Amiga machines. If CBM keeps up then eventually you will only be able to
get them mail-order.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: uzun@crash.cts.com (Roger Uzun)
Subject: 486's are in no way upgradeable to Pentiums
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:29:07 PST

Some of the Amiga bashers have stated that the Intel Pentium (formerly
586) will be available as an upgrade to all 486 users.  This is
not the case.  The Pentium uses a drastically different memory
architecture, and is a much higher performance chip.  To use
it in an existing 486 design would really hamper the performance
of the CHIP.  
Many existing overdrive sockets have additonal pins for a future
overdrive chip which will have many pentium like features, and
will provide higher performance than existing 486's.
Please look at the Nov 16 issue of EE times, page 121
for a quote from Intel on future overdrive options.

-Roger
--------------------------------------------------------------
bix: ruzun
NET: uzun@crash.cts.com
From: Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM does it again...
X-Sender: newtout 0.06 Jan  3 1993
Date: 10 Jan 93  10:00:02

> Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
> From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
> Message-ID: <C0KLo3.EC4@news.iastate.edu>
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
>
>   First, the A1200 and A600 power supplies should be a bit larger than the
> ones used with the A500 for the simple reason that the A1200 and A600 are
> designed to use an internal HD and the A500 wasn't.  Extta power is
> obviously
> needed to accomodate the HD.  Next, consider any extra power needed by the

However,  the A1200 uses lower-power components (EC020 CPU, CMOS Lisa chip)
and  probably lower-power ram chips too.  I imagine the A600 also uses less
power  (the surface mount 68000).  Seeing as how the IDE interface requires
negligible  amounts  of  extra  circuitry, it doesn't add much to the power
drain.

And,  finaly,  dont  you think the engineers considered adding an HD to the
systems?   I  garantee  they  did.  I mean, they did put an HD interface on
there.   I'm SURE they thought about the power drain when they selected the
PSU.   Are  you  saying  the engineers were too stupid to put a higher-watt
supply on a machine that needs it?

> underside expansion port.  In the A1200 especially, cards in the underside
> expansion port will very likely use more power than cards
> in the underside port
> of the A500.  Finally, consider any extra power to accomodate PCMCIA
> peripherals, which are even less likely to have their own power supply than
> peripherals plugged into the A500's side expansion port.

PCMCIA  was  designed  for  portable  computers - thus these cards use very
little power.  They are also very small, thus limiting what you can have on
one.

The A1200 slot is also pretty small.

>   Put all this together, and a power supply for the A1200 and A600 should be
> able to deliver about twice the power of the one used with
> the A500.  Commodore

Twice?   And  how  did  you  arive  at  that figure?  Are you an electrical
engineer?   Have  you studied the schematics of the A600 & A1200?  Have you
researched  the  power  drain  of these systems and of typical HD's, PCMCIA
cards  and  A1200 cards?  Maybe you dont know what the smeg you are talking
about, once again?

> might be able to get by with less, but using a power supply with twice the
> wattage would also silence the numerous people who criticized Commodore's
> A500 power supplies.
>
> -!-
> | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
> -!------------------------------------------------------------------
> "No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
> is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me

 -Dances With Coyotes-EMAIL: dances@qed.cts.com-At the begining of the movie-
 --AKA Dances V2.0/Coyote/Critter/Magnet/Major--they know they  have to find-
 -Former Net-Lurker - A-M-I-G-A! NOT AMEOBA%#$!-each other.... but they ride-
 -World's slower programer and cursed with 1.3!-off in  opposite  directions-


--- Maximus 2.01wb
From: phudv@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr R B Birkby)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3DO news
Date: 9 Jan 1993 20:48:29 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: thyme.csv.warwick.ac.uk


 papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:

>Anyhow, 3DO is NOT producing ANY hardware.  It is producing a standard
>piece of hardware, like the CD-I or MPC.  I get the impression that
>this thing a high-end 32 bit RISC based, MPEG/Kodak supporting CD-I
>type machine that is supposed to attract adults and children.

If this is the rumoured Nintendo and Sega thrasher called the 3DO then it uses
the ARM2 RISC architecture, was started by a special effects guy called
Hawkins, has 24 bit graphics, uses CD storage media, has the backing of
Matsushita, will be launched first in the states with 15 games (most
conversions) and has the backing of Stephen Spielberg who isn't supposed to be
too thrilled with present consoles.
If this is purely a console then amiga advocators needant worry .....unless one
is to believe an amiga can only be used for games??

Richard.
-- 
********************************************************************************
*       Richard Birkby                    1st year physics student	       *
*		University of Warwick, Coventry ENGLAND CV4 7AL		       *
********************************************************************************
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: To VM or not to VM?
Date: 7 Jan 1993 20:30:14 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <C0GpzB.34v@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   As standard software, as OS/2 and the Macintosh does?  No.  Does the Amiga
>have an unsupported third-party VM system available for it?  Yes.

Hmm.  Seems to me that the people that make GigaMem are supporting it
just fine.  Oh, you didn't MEAN that it was unsupported, you meant
it's not from C=!  Oh, okay.  I'm sorry.  I mistook your sweeping
generalization as something that needed to be responded to.

My apologies.

Followups directed to rec.arts.pro.butt-kissing.

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bill@west.msi.com (Bill Poitras)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Reply-To: bill@west.msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:08:50 GMT

Jack Radigan (jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov) wrote:
:   And, I still stand behind my assertion that for most applications that are
: run under a personal computing environment, ie. a *single* user environment,
: an overlayed program is easily fabricated, if it was designed as such from the
: beginning of the project.

:   When you throw UNIX, or most any multiuser environment into the mix along 
: with mega-applications, then yes, VM is most often the most pragmatic solution.

My unix workstation is mostly used as a single user workstation.  I run a
windowing environment, some command-line sessions and some other
applications.  You say because its Unix it should use VM.  What if I
worked for a software company that made OS/2 software.  I would still run
multiple command line sessions, a windowing envrionment, and several
other applications, like a compiler.  Are you saying that because OS/2 is
single user it should use overlays?  That sounds like stupid logic to me.
Maybe because you are so used to doing very little on your Amiga at once
that gives you such an opinion.  Maybe if you did real work on a system
you would understand.

:   -jack-

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@west.msi.com       |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
From: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (LaMonte Koop)
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:46:36 -0600
Reply-To: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: SCS GP/Engineering Cluster

In article <1993Jan8.151933.18520@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Jack Radigan (jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov) wrote:
>:
>:   Think about it, if you're using overlays smartly you're going to group 
>: common sections of code into each overlay segment, it's definately going
>: to be less of a burden on a VM manager as well since it's going to be dealing
>: with a net smaller code segment at any given time.
>:
>
>I strongly disagree with this.  With overlays, you're going to force your
>program to swap even if you have 2GB RAM.  VM discards/swaps out code/data
>based on a usage basis, which I think works much better than overlays.

    No, it is possible to set it up so that with enough available RAM you can
keep all code/data overlays resident in memory.  I've done such a thing with
a few projects of mine, so this would not be a problem (just perhaps a bit
more difficult to set up).  I believe DPaint also uses this particular tactic
in that it asks the user if he/she wishes the entire program loaded, or if 
overlay swapping should be used.

                 ----------------------------------------
           LaMonte Koop -- SCSU Electrical/Computer Engineering
 Internet: lkoop@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu -OR- f00012@kanga.stcloud.msus.edu
              "You mean you want MORE lights on this thing???"
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Comdex/Quicktime released for the PC
From: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??)
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:34:05 -0600
Reply-To: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <1993Jan7.075243.12243@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, zarthac@bradley.edu (Matthew Simmons) writes:
>Dale Adams (Dale_Adams@gateway.qm.apple.com) wrote:
>: In article <1993Jan5.235654.18056@lth.se> d91ds@efd.lth.se (David 
>: Sundqvist) writes:
>: > When I last looked at a Mac advertisement (december) they were still 
>: > selling MacClassic wich has a 68000 processor. And for twice the price
>: > of an a600. So the claim wasnt that far off i think. 
>: > - David
>
>: A number of Mac dealers have some overstock of the old Classic they're 
>: trying to sell.  Apple no longer manufactures the Classic (and hasn't for 
>: a number of months).  As I stated before, all current Macintosh computers
>: have at least a 16 MHz '030.  By the way, does that A600 you're price-
>: comparing have a hard disk (how big?) and a monitor?  (And how much RAM 
>: does it have?)  I've seen 4 MB Classics with 40 MB hard disks advertised 
>: for well under $800.
>
>How much functionality do you get with that 4 meg?  Can you do with that 4 
>meg what I can with 1/2?  Exactly how usable is system 7 when installed
>on floppies?  Is it usable?  WB is...  Granted hard drives are wonderful
>but the fact that you can run a better OS on an 880k floppy....  I'd be
>ashamed...
> 
>: - Dale Adams

Oh yea, also don't forget the beautiful 9" black and white monotor :).

what's one of them cost...25$??


Jim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Screeeemmmmmin fast 4000/040..YEEEEEEHA!!          X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
          Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
  -----(612) 656-9693--                         MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
      We're almost done with the Cray module for the EmPlanT.  :) heh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: marv@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Marv Gordon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 11 Jan 93 03:45:04 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>
>What do you define as "SVGA."  Trident SVGA is about equivalent to AGA.
>It's also about $50.00.
>
>
>With a PC you aren't forced to buy *ANYTHING*.  If you don't need
>sound, you don't pay for it.  If you don't need NTSC (few do) you don't
>pay for it.
>
>
>Give me a BREAK.  What total CRAP.  A 66MHZ 486DX is "close" to the
>speed of a 33MHZ 040, unless you have to do floating poing.   Come
>on...what colour is the sky in your world?
>
>If you want to talk about overall system performance, do so, but if
>you are talking about CPU speed, then this comparison is a bad joke.
>
>
>
>That's assuming of course you can FIND applications that do what you
>want for the the Amiga.
>
>
>When you have an "industry standard" computer, advice is plentiful and
>free.  And when your vendor has 24 hour support (many do) you don't
>even have to wait for a reply to your message!

1. Why don't you give us the specs on your $50 Trident board? is that the one
with the unreadable Malaysian manual?
 
2. It's unfortunate that us Amigans are forced to by a nicely integrated
system WITH sound and NTSC compatibility built in.  Crap! all of my apps share
this stinking IFF file standard too! My sound/graphics files are ALL
compatible between applications! That REALLY sucks... I can't spend my time
hacking around like the beemers trying to make things work!!
 
3. Overall system performance? I can speak for OS/2 performance (YES I LIKE
OS/2!) since i develop on it at work. Sorry but my A3000 does perform better
than my northgate 386/33 with 8 megs and OS/2 at work. Raw CPU speed means
S_it!
 
4. This garbage about lack of applications on the Amiga is a bunch of crap.
That story was old 4 years ago.  Nice try.... 
 
5. "Industry Standard"? What industry are you speaking of? and by alO{ means
tell us what standards! and as far as support goes, there are not many better
than GOLD service. 


UUCP: {tcnet, crash, quest}!orbit!pnet51!marv
ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!marv@nosc.mil
INET: marv@pnet51.orb.mn.org
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 16:39:59 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <C0LMIx.2Iv@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> <C0p3to.Avo@cs.mcgill.ca>
  <C0pALJ.8qF@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>

>They are selling PCs that can use the Pentium already.

Who are "they"?


TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:51:29 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Richard Foy (foy@aero.org) wrote:
: >
: >So you think that watching Slick Willie on TV is as educational and rewarding
: >an experience as reading a classic novel?
: >
:
: Yes and no. Watching Bill Clintons election campaign is very educational in
: how to win elections. His approach to the campaign overcame one obstacle that
: is similiar to one which knocked Sentator Hart out a few years back. He 
: overcame a draft dodger charge that would have destroyed most campaigns.
:

IMHO, if Bill Clinton's approach is what it takes to win elections these days,
this country is in real sad shape.  He didn't overcome anything; he ended up
winning with a minority vote!  His victory was largely due to the Perot factor.
I can't believe it; with each election comes a new level of sleaze and BS.
Last year, you had Slick Willie telling people not to vote for Perot, because
it's a wasted vote with respect to getting Bush out of office.  The really
funny thing is the number of people who actually went for it and adopted this
"vote against, not for" strategy.  You had newspapers, which are supposed to
be the unbiased media, endorsing candidates and publishing poll results which
served no purpose other than rendering all but one candidate unelectable, six
months before the election.  Ugh!  Sorry, this is all IMHO, of course, but YOU
got me started!

:
: A big factor in his winning was in an excellent use of the video media.
:

I'd call it "ABUSE of the video media".

:
: Richard Foy 	Standard Disclaimer.
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us (MARK BROWN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Reply-To: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us
X-Software: Legend (216-825-2747) UUCPShell v4.9/med20Dec92
X-Disclaimer: Opinions of users do not necessarily reflect those of managment
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:40:37 EST
Organization: The Legend BBS Public Access (216)825-2747

I say the Amiga was an influence on IBM and other Vendors to develope 
Multitasking OS's, you say the amiga isn't. I'd Bet Money I am right. 
 I would like to see the History books 20 years from now and see what 
they have said about the amiga. Even Bill Gates said that the 
Computers of Tommorow will be modeled after the Amiga( Qoute from PC 
world, Jan of 91'(or is it 90'?) ).
     Mark

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Powerup a source of SOCIALISM?! :-p Re: A4000 Pricing
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 20:00:31 GMT

In article <jprad.726559708@faatcrl> jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan) writes:
>mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>
>>>Why does the Power Up only apply to the states.
>>>The Europe market is quite a big chunk for C= and yet we don't get
>>>any of these offers.
>
>>Maybe the US people need that to sell Amigas.
>
>>>Is it C= UK just being greedy or just lazy??
>
>>Definitely greedy as all people in capitalism.
>
>  If the set of all capitalists are greedy then how can a Power Up program
>be offered in country of capitalists?

Wel, if I were C= it would be in my best interests to have, among all my users,
a larger amount of AGAs than non-AGAs.

>  -jack-
-- 
Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu
"I'd rather have a kiss of my yellow gypsy's lips"
From: reavis@cheshire.oxy.edu (Paul Reavis)
Subject: Re: CBM does it again... 23 watt p.s. for A1200?!?
Keywords: gimme a break
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:08:47 GMT

I for one very quickly had to upgrade my A500 power supply... 

I bought ICD's AdRAM 500, and after a few megs of DRAMS saw some serious 
slowdowns in my processing speed. I now have an external TCPro box which 
as soon as the memory card is added, needs its own power supply as well.

Commodore obviously wants to keep out products like the AdRAM, since the 
A600 and A1200 both feature surface mountings and little internal space.    
Whether this is right is debatable, but simply providing "just enough" power
for the cpu and hd or even for the current expansion options does limit the
sort of third-party handy hacks that ICD is so good at from appearing in
the future. And, as a very broke computer science student who had to start
with a vanilla A500 and painfully make his upgrades in as small steps as 
possible, I really liked having those options open to me.

Ah, well. At least they aren't doing like Mac and putting 500 watt, big-as-
a-basketball-shoebox power supplies into them (see inside of Mac Quadra for
details). We'll see if 23 watts is enough - C= probably won't change their
mind about them anytime soon.

paul.


-- 

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}{{{{{

		i'm born at the bar tonight i'm gonna destroy this world did i