HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davis@cwis.unomaha.edu (James J Davis)
Subject: Re: The Good things about Killing attacks as they are now
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:33:10 GMT

dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen) writes:

>I've also run a Champs game for over 3 years with one world (and as many as 12 
>players at once), and I find the damage variability of KAs to be one of their 
>best points.  In fact, the only tweak I found I needed for KAs was to make 
>extra Damage Multiples a +1/4 advantage as explained in a previous post.

I don't like +1 STUN mult at +1/4.  It works out kinda if that is the *only*
advantage considered, but if others enter the scheme, it is too easily raped.
I already have problems with this advantage at +1/2, making it +1/4 would let
it get out of hand.  For example, consider:

1d6 RKA, vs ECV, +4 STUN multiplier (30 pts)....

compare it to 3d6 EGO attack, which does a fairly consistant 10 to 11 stun.
The RKA version does an average of 23 STUN, plus it can potentially do 54
(compared to 18 for EGO attack).  This is crocked.






















>6-9 DC HyperThugGuns will bounce off such heroes if they are normal attacks, 
>but if they are Kills, one of the thugs might actually stun a hero, so the 
>heroes don't blow off the thugs.

But *why* should an equal value KA be so much more valuable than a EB?  There
is no reason for it.

>Heroes get cocky when normal dudes with guns can't 
>touch them, and logically so would villains.  By having the chance of a lucky 
>shot, only the most Psych Lim'ed of supers would totally ignore the threat of 
>gunplay.  Otherwise, why have thugs, and why bother sending normal people to 
>contain supervillains?

This is a campaign effect, and has nothing to do with the balance of KA's vs
EB's.  If you want to threaten Heros with normals, the Heros should not be
30 PD or anything like that.  That is just a matter of balancing the game by
the referee.  In context, I don't believe Colossus of the X-Men has ever been
afraid of a 'normal' rifle.  Daredevil, on the otherhand, should be.  These
heros are different types, Daredevil is the type to be threatened by human
normals, Colossus is not afraid of a FN-FAL.  However, in Hero, the FN can do
about 48 STUN one is 6 times (average BOD, stun mult 6).  This is silly.

>  Kills are the Great Equalizer...they let the small fell
>the large (and the large pulp the small...oh well).  Keep them as is.  Players 
>need a little fear once in a while, even if they are Captain Indestructo.

Kills end up making defenses pretty irrelevant too.  In Champs, we'd like to
say "you get what you paid for".  With kills, you don't.  You get too much.
If I want to make Captain Indestructo 'afraid', I can do it with a fixed mult
kill just as easily as a varaible mult kill.  Like I mentioned before, that is
just a campaign decision by me, as a GM.

-james
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: adelekta@kentvm.kent.edu
Subject: Re: Vampire : "Baby Face" Merit & Sexuality
Organization: Kent State Univ.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:48:50 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.135625.13803@ucl.ac.uk>
ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (Tim Dedopulos) writes:
 
>                 Would, then, a Vampire with Baby Face
>be able to perform sexually? Would the answer be the
>same for both 'sexes'? I mean, presumably there is
>nothing to stop a Vampire female from accepting mortal
>penetration, but lack of bloodflow would inhibit any
>normal mortal warmth. The situation of the Vampire
>male would presumably be different. But if the Vampire
>could get surface blood, and moving...
>Thoughts?
 
 I'm not sure if any of the Vampire books deal with the question of sex, but
both gamemasters that I have gamed with have considered sex possible for all
kindred - only a blood pool point must be expended for each, uh, encounter.
Though even with this method I think "baby face" would be helpful, at least in
an encounter with a mortal, since the character wouldn't look or feel quite so
dead.
 
-anne
(adelekta@kentvm.kent.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: gray@visix.com (Gray Jones)
Subject: SRII:  Physical Adepts
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:14:45 GMT
Reply-To: gray@visix.com (Gray Jones)
Organization: Visix Software, Reston, Virginia

Wow, SRII sure did knock those crazy physical adepts down a peg or two....

I just want to double check, are there any misprints in the physical adept
section of the SRII book?

Did the game designers decide that a starting Physical Adept should not be
a match for a starting Samurai?

Case in point:

A samurai buys Wired reflexes 2, he can do this with the Priority B Resources (400000 Y).  He gets
+4 reaction and +2D6 initiative dice.  Let's assume the samurai also takes attributes priority A
and has 6's in both Quickness and Intelligence (that means a Reaction of 6 for the folks at home).
For a 1/2 of his available essence and about 40% of his available money, he gets a 10 reaction and
3 initiative dice.

A physical adept wants to go toe-to-toe with the same samurai.  He has the same attributes,
and attempts to buy enough Improved Reaction and Improved Reflexes to have the same 
initiative dice and Reaction.  He spends 4 points on 2 extra dice of initiative and 8 points to
raise his reaction up to 10 (4 points above the racial maximum).  I think it is rediculous that
a PA must be a grade 6 initiate to have the same initiative as a starting samurai.

If there is no misprint, could somebody please post some useful house rules that put the
PA somewhere between SR (where they were too powerful) and SRII.

thanks
--gray
From: by670@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Marc-Eivind Cruz Evensen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRII: Phys Adept
Date: 13 Jan 1993 01:02:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


    I'd just like to use this post to make one thing painfully clear:

Physical Adepts are NOT "magic samurai", they are different characters with
different strengths and weaknesses. Samurai are the kings of the street,
PAs were NOT meant to displace them are match them. PAs were put into
Shadowrun to spice up the game and provide a new type of character -- one
which I would hazard to describe as a true SHadowrunner, instead of a 
"spotlight stander" (which many sams end up being with their SMGs and LMGs).

Let's not mince words with specific examples (ie "My sam never takes the plane)
The question of detectability is important in many ways:

1. Does the bouncer let you into the club with or without his eyes (and gun)
   watching your every move?

2. Does the Lone Star police use normal tactics, or samurai stance? (Some may
   be aware of PAs, but how can they tell? (short of a mage) One the other
   hand, most vat jobs are pretty obvious)

3. Do dumb (yet dangerous) gangers go after you for your cyberwear?

4. Can you hide your abilities with the growth of your power?
   (With initiation, PAs would gain masking, while increasing their magic
   attribute, and possibly picking up important other powers and contacts)

5. Etc...

On the subject of point four, one thing that really does bother me about PAs
is the initiation rules -- having to pay karma equal to that of a full mage
yet being unable to access many of the powers. What have other groups done
to solve this *one* problem with PAs. I saw the skipping of Grade 0, which
is an excellent idea, but are there any others out there? Also, what powers
of metamagic have you granted your PAs?

Oh yeah, one more thing that makes PAs truly great! Their essence is SIX!
That means magical healing goes to a 2 TN for Treat and a 4 TN for Heal.
Most sams I know of rest at about ONE essence, which makes for 7 and 9 TNs
(respectively) -- which would you rather have?

-- Marc
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: warnold@gossip.urich.edu (William W. Arnold)
Subject: Re: net.hero.bestiary?
Organization: University of Richmond
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:25:45 GMT

In <1993Jan11.045828.24050@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jnephew@tirith.carleton.edu (John A. Nephew) writes:
>
>The important question, from a legal and ethical perspective, is: are you
>making money off it?  I'm assuming not. 

I'd like to point out that from a legal point of view, profit or lack of
profit has no effect on if it is legal or not.  It can only affect the
amount of the decision against you.

-- 
-billy-  has8wwa@cabell.vcu.edu  warnold@nomad.urich.edu
From: pw15@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Philip  Wang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: help
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:38:32 GMT
Reply-To: pw15@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Philip  Wang)
Organization: Columbia University

I'm not too sure if this is the right group to post this. Actually I can't
remember because I'm not a frequent reader of this group, but I'll post it
anyway. Sorry if it isn't.

I was messing with my old Apple dring Christmas break and was playing 
Wizardry's Knight Of Diamonds scenario, and found all the KOD armor and all the
riddle clues. The clues are something to the effect of:
	The king that king who worships gold
	Will have none in his treasure room.

	The king, that king who worships power
	Will have none within his tomb.

	The king, that king who worships these
	He finds doom.

Something like that. I notice that the first two clues have sixteen syllables
so the third line must have sixteen syllables. I assume I have to replace
"these" with a three syllable word that fills in the blank, and I can't think
of the answer. My guess was something that means the same more or less as 
"fame" or "glory" but nothing in my thesaurus was correct. Am I even close?
If you can, I'd rather a hint than a direct answer, and I don't want to know
what's behind that door. I'll find that out if I get the riddle solved.
BTW, what does the Amulet Of Skill do? My samurai is wearing one, and I'm not
sure if it's doing anything except hanging around his neck.

Thanks in advance.

philip



Philip Wang                            E-mail at pw15@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
"Cups and cakes, cups and cakes, I'm so full my tummy aches."
"You're too young, you're not too well hung, but tonight I'm gonna rock you"
                   -Spinal Tap
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: tkelly@unix2.tcd.ie (Mithrandir)
Subject: Re: What do you look for in a magic system?
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 09:53:54 GMT

In <93006.123635DK6TOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET> DK6TOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET (Dan Karipides) writes:

>This is an informal survey concerning what role-players like in a
>RPG magic system.  (I am currently working on my own system--aren't
>we all--and would greatly appreciate you opinions.)

>I would prefer comments like, "I demand a magic system be..." as opposed
>to "I like GURPS magic."  Email responses are fine, or you may post your
>response if you feel that it is net-worthy.

>Thanks in advance.

  Shucks!
 As far as magic systems go, I prefer a system that has got some
semblance of logic in it, and is not just completely arbitrary in it's
outlook. I don't like systems that say things like "You have three first
level spells and two second level spells per day" idea, because there is
no logical reason why you can't therefore have "five first level spells"
instead. This sort of shit gets me all flustered. 
  Systems which allow the mage to utilise everything in his repertoire
are much prefered IMHO, as long as they have side effects. Fatigue being
the normal example of most such things. I also like the idea of a mage
who can improvise magic to a certain degree, winging it when he has to
in certain situations.
  These systems should be well thought out, with various appropriate
costs and stuff for those mages who want to specialise in various fields
of study (benefits too).
  As most of you can probably already tell, I prefer the Ars Magica
system above all others. I dislike the AD+D system because of the loads
of bull that it involves.
  "Whaddya mean I can cast another Disintegrate, but not a magic
missile??"



>                                                 -Dan
--
 Haggis: Haggis is a black pudding eaten by the Scots and considered not
only a delicacy, but fit for human consumtion.The minced heart, liver
and lungs of a sheep are mixed with oatmeal and boiled in the sheep's
stomach before ...Excuse me a minute... [Mithrandir/tkelly@unix2.tcd.ie]
From: paul@sco.COM (Paul Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Talislantia - seeking details on Gryph
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:38:28 GMT
Organization: SCO Canada, Inc.

We just started a Talislantia campaign last night and I ended up playing a
Gryph character. Unfortunately, the book detailing the Central region (where
the Gryph's reside) is not locally available so the only information that I
have on them is the very scanty information in the main book.

If anybody happens to have a bit more information available on the Gryph
culture I'd appreciate it if they could send it on to me.
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Computer connections (Was Re: Dumb Moves By Game Companies)
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:28:23 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd3.cis.pitt.edu

In article <34905@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU> drcheng@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU (David R Cheng) writes:
>This is not entirely true.  FASA, Chaosium, GDW, TSR, Avalon Hill, 
>Task Force Games, et many al, have very active GEnie boards.  Dozens
>of other games have discussion groups devoted to them.
>Designers log on frequently, and you can send e-mail directly
>to them.
>America Online, Compuserve, and others have gaming discussions too,
>I hear.  I will vouch that GEnie's are excellent.


	I'm sure they are. But the Internet is much larger and most importantly
has a huge population of people who can't afford to log on to pay-per-connect
services (I sure can't, and probably won't ever because I don't like paying 
just to log on).

	It may be possible to Email all sorts of people, but it's on
things like Internet that you get to hear from them enough to decide that
you WANT to email them, and also that you're able to find out the address
without having to hunt for it.

	The Internet Connection that WotC uses is a major difference from
those of other companies on commercial networks, and, I think, an
extremely important difference.


				Sea Wasp
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: gray@visix.com (Gray Jones)
Subject: SRII:  Questions....
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:06:43 GMT
Reply-To: gray@visix.com (Gray Jones)
Organization: Visix Software, Reston, Virginia


I just got SRII and the new Grimoire, now I am confused.....

Question 1:

When I use fletchette bullets (and shotgun shells) the book says that I should raise
the damage category one level against unarmored targets.  What about armored targets?
Do I raise the damage level against them as well?  I am guessing not, since dermal armor
voids the damage level increase and external armor is at least as tough as dermal armor.
However, the damage code for the Viper Slivergun and the Remington Roomsweeper
are very high as if they were figuring in the damage increase for fletchettes.  So, basically
what I want to know is:  Do always increase the damage code from fletchettes or only against
unarmored targets.

Question 2:

The Street Samurai archetype has more than 6 points of essence in cyberware.  Why?  Is this
a misprint or are there new rules on cyberware beyond six points of essence (like in the
new samurai catalog?)?

--gray
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jacobus@symphony.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: GURPS: A question about an Enchantment
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 06:53:06 GMT



I'd rule that if the bow were enchanted (with the extra surcharge for it
being a missile weapon), then the arrow would leap and self-nock.  However,
if only the arrow were enchanted (with the appropriate discount), then it
would only reduce firing time by one turn.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: ebstokes@uncc.edu (Edward B Stokes)
Subject: Re: net.hero.bestiary?
Keywords: 
	I don't see what problem HERO would have with simply uploading character sheets. This assumes they came from imagination instead of a HERO book. I show my character sheets to friends all the time. That's the best way to get them proofread. They also make good NPCs.
Reply-To: ebstokes@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:58:03 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: tsang@cs.washington.edu (Donald Tsang)
Subject: (CHAMP) Killing Attacks: a possible solution to the "stun lottery"
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 09:00:33 GMT

In article <> dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga) writes:
>akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) writes:
>>When I GM, I get rid of the D6-1, and just use a fixed x3
>>multiplier for killing attacks.  If you check the math,
>>you will see that this rule causes KAs and normal attacks
>>to have the same minimium, average and maximium results.
>
>You could try this instead. You only do STUN for the amount of body
>that penetrates their defense. I.e. If you get through with 2 of 14,
>and roll a 6, you get 10 STUN. That seems to keep bricks pretty
>invulnerable to low power killing attacks.

Uhh, is that good?  It also keeps bricks pretty invulnerable to ALL
killing attacks (short of the "AP*3, Penetrating" ones)...

  30 rPD and 30 rED will be 100% proof against up to 5d6 Killing
  attacks, and 90-some percent proof against 6d6 KA's.  NAASTY.

Partial solution: make resistant defenses more expensive.

  Armor should cost 2 character points per point of rPD or rED;
  Damage Resistance should be one point per point;
  Force Fields and Force Walls are expensive enough as is.

Then a simple, effective system would be:

  For the "impact" of an attack, the Stun Multiplier is always 2.
  Apply like the "old-style" killing attacks.
  
  In addition, each point of Body that gets through does 1d6 Stun, past
  defenses.  This all occurs before Damage Reduction (roll the full
  number of dice, THEN reduce).

Slightly more complex:

  Instead of making the Stun Multiplier 2, roll more dice.  Example:
  4d6 KA - roll 4d6 for Body, and then add 4d6 more and make the entire
  total the "impact Stun", which is absorbed by normal PD/ED.  Make
  the "Body" rolled on all 8 dice (as normal dice) be the base for
  knockback (don't subtract the extra die, because this is a "normal"
  attack).

Followups should probably go to champs-l, the Champions mailing list.

[   You can subscribe to champs-l by mailing to:
    champs-request@elysium.esd.sgi.com           ]

-- 
Donald Tsang                    "Ho!  Haha!  Guard!  Turn!  Parry!  Dodge!
tsang@june.cs.washington.edu     Spin!  Ha!  Thrust!"
..!uw-beaver!june!tsang                       -- Robin Hood Daffy
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jnephew@tirith.carleton.edu (John A. Nephew)
Subject: Re: net.hero.bestiary?
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 04:58:28 GMT
X-Posted-From: tirith.acc.carleton.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I can't speak on behalf of Bruce Harlick and the rest of the good folks at Hero
Games, but I'd like to add my $.02 to this discussion of a net.bestiary from
the perspective of my own company:  GO FOR IT!

The important question, from a legal and ethical perspective, is: are you
making money off it?  I'm assuming not.  (If you went and published a book for
some RPG or other without the publisher's permission, and sold that book for
profit, it's a different question.  That's why Atlas Games has a licensing
contract with R. Talsorian Games to make Cyberpunk adventures.)

Then it's a question of "fair use," just like quoting sources in a paper for
school.  If you quote a line or two from the rulebook, and cite it
appropriately, fine.  If you make the entire rulebook available by FTP without
the publisher's permission, watch it -- even if they're too small to be able to
afford to sue, some concerned organization like GAMA might step in to set a
precedent.

The point of RPGs is to develop your own stuff, and to share it with your
friends, right?  From a legal and ethical standpoint, you're on safe ground. 
For courtesy, though, you should let the company know what you're doing.

As the president of Atlas Games, I'd like to know if someone makes material
related to one of our games available -- whether it's in a newsgroup, a mailing
list, FTP archive, fanzine, or whatever.  I'm delighted to see people
developing ideas based on ours, and I'd like to be able to see what appears.  I
think most publishers -- especially the smaller ones -- would agree.  It's VERY
gratifying to see someone inspired by what you've done.

Moreover, it's good marketing.  With a couple weird exceptions, game companies
love any exposure they can get.  I'm even happy to see bad reviews, because it
sticks our name in peoples' minds.

(On the magazines topic: No, they don't generally get any sort of special
permission from other companies to publish material for their games.  Again,
who turns down free publicity?)

So, as long as you're not planning to slap covers and a price tag on the net
book, I'd say go for it.  But just to be polite (and to ease your concerns),
why not drop a line to Bruce Harlick (BruceHH@aol.com) at Hero Games to let him
know?  I'll bet he'll be delighted.

-John Nephew
President, Atlas Games
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: Gone with the Lemming <ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu>
Subject: Re: Champions: mage special effects
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]
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Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
	<1993Jan5.170055.7837@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:46:40 GMT

Another method of making "super" mages is with a number of small to
moderate sized Multipowers. For example, a possible elemental mage could
have 4 40-Point Multipowers, one each for Earth, Air, Fire, and Water
spells. Each individual spell is a slot in the Multipower.

--Rat                               PGP Public Key Block available upon request
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Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat          ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.              --Buckaroo Banzai