HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: josh@aris.ss.uci.edu (Josh Stern)
Subject: Re: Messiaen recommendations?
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 7 Nov 92 22:00:42 GMT

In article <17231@mindlink.bc.ca> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:

>I'm waiting for the re-release on CD of Visions de l'Amen with Serkin and
>Takahashi, one of my favorite recordings. The original release was a joke, it
>was one of RCA's famous Dynawarp pressings. The US cassette release wasn't
>even using the Dolby system of noise suppression!

`Visions' has received a number of fine recorded performances, but the
one by Yvonne Loriod and the composer himself, available NOW on the
Ades label, should absolutely not be overlooked.  Messiaen and spouse
are particularly outstanding at coordinating and articulating the
finer rhythmic nuances of this composition.  THe recording dates from
around 1960 but is quite good.

Josh



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: johnme@ecs.comm.mot.com (John Meyer)
Subject: Re: Brahms
Organization: pcb_design
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 12:23:15 GMT

In article <BxL30t.8FM@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> kldawkin@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Kiwi) writes:
>I've been dying to ask this question, and right now I feel the time is
>right. Don't ask why. Anyway, my question is this: Are there other
>people out there who think (as I do) that Brahms is highly overrated?
>That's not to say he didn't write great music... but I don't think
>he wrote a *lot* of great music. The strange thing about Brahms
>is that although I like a great deal of music from his time
>(music of contemporaries such as Liszt, Wagner, Bruch, Saint-Saens,
>Balakirev, etc.) I simply can't get into his music at all. 
>I would quite gladly be proven wrong, and I'd love it if people could
>post some suggestions to get me going. I have heard all the symphonies
>and I am unimpressed, as well as both piano concerti, the violin
>concerto, the double concerto, all of opp 117, 118, both major overtures,
>and some of the Hungarian dances. And other things which




IF YOU DONT' LIKE HIS VIOLIN CONCERTO, THERES NO HOPE FOR YOU! 
YOU DONT'HAVE TO LIKE HIM,ALTHOUGH YOU SHOULD.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lungtt@gus5.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung)
Subject: Re: Help finding Paganini!
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:05:33 GMT

>>Does anyone out there know how I can get some music by Paganini?
>>I have looked for him everywhere and can't seem to find any of his music
>>releases anywhere.  I really like his music, so any help would be appreciated.
>>  Thank You in Advance,
>>
>>    Lisa Lambert
>
>Sheet music or recordings?
>
>Deutsche Grammophone has a whole series of recordings by Shlomo Mintz
CORRECTION:  Salvatore Accardo does the violin concertos;  Shlomo Mintz
does the caprices.
>of Paganini's violin concertos 1-5 and 24 Caprices.  Other violin
>pieces like Nel Cor Piu Non Mi Sento are much harder to find now that
>LPs have become impossible to find.  Besides Shlomo Mintz, Paganini's
>violin concertos 1 & 2 are quite popular and should be available in
>all sorts of soloist/orchestra combinations.  I've also seen CD
>collections of Paganini guitar quintets.  I've only seen these in the
>bigger CD outlets like Tower Records.
>
>There's also a recording of his 24 Caprices out by Midori.
>
>Terence


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwilmer@gateway (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: Salome
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:40:51 GMT

In article <BxGpH4.LHs@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>In article <Nov06.053519.38704@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
>
>>I guess that the one thing I really don't get is,
>>what is the POINT of this thing?  I am used to Wagner and hence, looking for
>>some kind of 'interpretation' for everything that I listen to...It seems to me
>>that this is just a story, and I should just enjoy it as such.  Does anyone
>>have any thoughts about this?
>
>You're quite right, that there's a problem about this.  And the answer
>(and the strongest thing one can say against the opera, which I hasten
>to add I love) is that it has no point.  It exists to "shock the
>bourgeois." 

I think there is a poetic point in the beauty of Oscar Wilde's
language and the German libretto.  I think it is one of the
opera librettos (like those of Felice Romani and Maurice
Maeterlinck) that basks in sheer beauty of
language and (like those of Salvatore Cammarano) that
revels in the sensuality of the tongue and mouth forming
juicy syllables (``Wie schon ist die Prinzessin Salome heute
abend'').  Strauss matches that beauty and sensuality admirably
as does Verdi with Cammarano's Trovatore (``Abbietta zingara
fosco vegliarda'', ``Di quella pira'', etc.) and Bellini with Romani's
Sonnambula (``Ah non credea mirarti si presto estinto un fiore'')
and Debussy with Maeterlinck's Pelleas (``Les viellards ont besoin quelquefois
de toucher de leur levres le front d'une femme ou la joue d'un
enfant pour croire encore a la fraicheur de la vie et eloigner
un moment les menaces de la mort.'')

I consider Salome and those other operas I quoted from more
as ``art for the sake of art'' as
compared with other operas with great libretti (of Boito, Wagner, and
da Ponte, for example) that have immediately evident dramatic points.

Richard



Richard
From: u6404369@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Grosse Fuge Op.134 ?
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:15:21 +1100
Organization: The University of Melbourne

Does anyone know of a recording of Beethoven's own piano duet
arrangement of his Grosse Fuge i.e. op 134

Please don't email replies

Thanks.
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: KDFC - a question.
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:58:37 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <8285@public.BTR.COM> midkiff@public.BTR.COM (Neil E. Midkiff  midkiff@btr.com) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.234454.21599@menudo.uh.edu> chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU 
>(Bill Harrison) writes:

>[to a discussion of the prerecorded announcements on San Francisco's classical
>radio station KDFC]

>>This "canned announcer" is the most bizarre thing I've heard in ages... Can 
>>somebody track down the full story??? 

>As I understand it, not only the announcer but the whole program is canned.
>Apparently the station subscribes to or is a franchise of some nationwide
>service which transfers the music and the announcements to digital tapes.
>The broadcasting is then pretty much automated; I think they have to have 
>an engineer on hand all the time but probably he or she is pretty lonely most
>of the time.

>This would explain the other posting which mentioned hearing the same 
>announcer in the Midwest.

Substantially correct, but there's one little catch.

KDFC is the originator of this particular service. There are, it
seems, really some local announcers, and their robotic mutterings are
what get sent out to other stations in a franchise arrangement. 

I was absolutely horrified when I read this in the NYT sometime in the
last year or so; the article was on classical radio marketing, and
franchising seems to have become a really hot deal. That was bad
enough, but the idea that one of the big cheeses was KDFC was almost
too much to bear.

Thank heavens for Austin's truly idiosyncratic classical programming.



-- 
"Every passion borders on the chaotic, but the collector's passion
borders on the chaos of memories" 
                                                -- Walter Benjamin
 ...!cs.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!jzimm
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Need help with SCHUMANN works
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:40:36 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Nov5.021641.24190@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>In article <Bx6n44.2CM@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rakg7278@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard A. Korkosz) writes:
>>I'm really a Schumann fanatic, and was wondering if there are any 
>>(relatively) obscure works of Schumann that are worth trying out (probably 
>>many).  I'd appreciate it if anyone could recommend some works that they 
>>enjoy, as well as good performances on CD.  To narrow down the possible 
>>recommendations, I list the Schumann works which I already have recordings of 
>>below. I'm sure there are many great works which I have not encountered which 
>>do not necessarily qualify as "obscure".

>>Also, if you know of any "REALLY HOT" performances of ANY Schumann pieces, 
>>by all means let me know.  I'll be glad to share some of my favorites upon 
>>request.  Any other big Schumann fans out there?

>I always feel that Schumann is one of those composers who have to be
>played *really* well or you are left wondering what the fuss is all
>about (Liszt is another IMO).

Absolutely.  Even an expert like Arrau never really convinced me.

>There is a wonderful DG Dokumente CD of Richter playing the
>Waldscenen, Abegg variations, Toccata etc. as already mentioned. I got
>a copy a couple of months ago and it is wonderful.

Thanks!

>I don't think anyone today except Richter plays Schumann the way they
>used to....

Charles Rosen, on the other hand, plays the early piano music the way
they *ought* to, on _The Revolutionary Masterpieces_, which ought to
be out on CD.  It's a Nonesuch 3-record set, in any case.  He does the 
original version of the C Major Fantasy, which brings back the Beethoven 
reminiscence in the last movement.  

Other less-well-known Schumann:

-- Konzertstueck for four horns and orchestra.  Not great musical thought,
but neat sounds.  
-- The small pieces for instrument and piano.  Fantasiestuecke for 
clarinet (a cycle), Romanzen for oboe, Maerchenbilder for viola.  Schumann's
lyric vein expanded beyond his home instrument, and very successfully.
-- Genoveva.  Schumann's only opera is a turkey in dramatic terms (all the
good stuff happens during the intermissions), but the musical style is
very advanced.  Schumann had developed a leitmotiv technique similar to
Wagner's, and of course a general compositional technique that was miles
ahead of what Wagner could do in 1850.  Unfortunately, *applying* the
leitmotiv idea in a dramatic way was something that was beyond Schumann;
it was 50 years before anyone noticed the motives were even there!  Many 
of the numbers in the opera are of high quality, however.
-- Paradise and the Peri; Pilgrimage of the Rose; Scenes from Faust.  All
have good moments, all have problems.  The last is probably the greatest
of the three.

Roger
From: leighann@rocky.sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Carmina/Excalibur
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:27:04 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc., Emeryville, CA

In article <Bx3HsK.FxF@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ash50842@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dres) writes:
|> Just a quick comment.  In the movie Excalibur, definately the main piece is
|> not Carmina Burana (sp?) but is Siegried's Funeral March from Gotterdammurung
|> by Wagner.  

After Arthur has been given the draught of the Grail, and they are riding
to the last battle through the blooming apple trees (the white petals fall
all through the ride), the piece that is playing is "O Fortuna" from Orff's
Carmina Burana.  *That* makes the movie.

Cheers,
	- Leigh Ann

----------------
Leigh Ann Hussey   
leighann@sybase.com           {sun,lll-tis,pyramid,pacbell}!sybase!leighann
"They're mine!  All mine!  And what's mine is mine!" - Daffy Duck
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Subject: Re: Messiaen recommendations?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 16:08:22 GMT

> sjh writes:
>
> Peter Serkin recorded the most beautiful and powerful performance of this
> [Vingt Regards] _ever_ (IMHO) back in the 70's, but it has not yet been
> re-released on CD.
>


I'm waiting for the re-release on CD of Visions de l'Amen with Serkin and
Takahashi, one of my favorite recordings. The original release was a joke, it
was one of RCA's famous Dynawarp pressings. The US cassette release wasn't
even using the Dolby system of noise suppression!

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smitra@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Sami Mitra)
Subject: Re: Salome
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:34:09 GMT

	Some opinions on the net recently seem to lean to the Solti
recording of Salome, which I heartily go along with, and downplay the
class of the Sinopoli/Studer version, and here I differ.
	The recording, though new (quite often people tend to dislike
new recordings...nostalgia? Or maybe because they've not been weeded
out by the test of time?) is quite simply awesome, I think.
	Salome, maybe because of its length or because one singer 
and the conductor can carry it off even if the supporting roles are
sketchily done, has been rather well served on disc. The Solti,
Karajan and the Sinopoli recordings are all good by any reckoning.
The Caballe version is wonderful too, because of her singing, and
maybe inspite of Leinsdorf. Even Borkh's excerpts with Reiner are
"perfect". I have my only doubts about the recent Mehta/Marton
recording. But maybe others will differ?


					Sami Mitra
From: yangyj@SPUNKY.CS.NYU.EDU (Yao-Jung Yang)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: My favorite 10.
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:46:54 GMT
Organization: New York University

Here comes mine :

1,2: Beethoven Symphony No. 6 and 9. Bohm + Vienna Phil.
3. : Bach Goldburg Variations. Gould.
4. : Chopin Etudes. Pollini.
5. : Beethoven Violin Concerto in D. Oistrakh, Cluytens
     Bruch Violin Concerto
6. : Mozart Piano Concerto 20, 23. Gulda, Abbado
     (I hope DG will release such a CD)
7. : Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2. Pollini, Abbado
8,9: Puccini La Boheme. Freni, Pavarotti, Karajan
10.: Schubert Songs of the Swan (I forget the original Germany name)
     Fischer-Diskau, Moore


Excuse me, can I pack up some more ? Just 1 second, please........



Yao-Jung
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chieu@pta.pyramid.com.au (Chieu Tran)
Subject: Re: HAYDN
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Sydney
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:25:34 GMT

velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Velde Francois) writes:

>In article <1992Nov3.170556.26061@zip.eecs.umich.edu> carnes@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Richard Carnes) writes:

>Rudolf Buchbinder recorded all the piano sonatas on Teldec, 10 or 12 CDs
>in all, but they were going at $6 apiece recently. The sheer number may
>seem daunting, but there are real pearls among it all. And the rest makes
>beautiful "musique d'ameublement" (furniture music) in the most positive
>sense. Likewise for the piano trios, by the Beaux-Arts Trio.

>The string quartets mentioned above are remarkable.  It's taken me a long 
>time to recognize a Haydn "sound", e.g. in the symphonies of the sonatas.
>Sometimes I come to think of Mozart as the facile, formulaic composer.

I recommend all the string quartets recorded by the Kodaly quartet under
the Naxos label.  The music playing is superb, not to mention the low,
low price (less than A$10 over here).
-- 
      -m-------  Chieu Tran                UUCP: pyramid!pta!chieu
    ---mmm-----  Pyramid Technology Corp.  INTERNET: chieu@pta.pyramid.com.au
  -----mmmmm---  403 Pacific Highway       VOICE: +61 2 901 5333
-------mmmmmmm-  Artarmon 2064 Australia   FAX: +61 2 906 4353
From: zhu@blaze.rutgers.edu (Yi Zhu)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: KDFC - a question.
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:39:08 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Having recently gone to California, I have a question for listeners in
the Bay area, or for anyone who cares to comment.

There is this station KDFC whose announcer practices a peculiar way of
radio hosting.  Before and after a piece is played, he would give the
usual info about the number, then a pause, then almost as an
afterthought, adds a 4 digit number, e.g. 1865, 1934, 1786.  I found
it quite odd, after a couple tunes, I figured out that it is the
year in which the piece is completed.  So here is the million dollar
question: Knowing the year(assuming you know what that number means),
does it help enhancing your enjoyment or understanding of the music
in any way?

I think not, so I am not sure about the point of doing it.

Incidentally, the same DJ seems to be there all day, and possibly all
night, with the same monotonic voice.  He'll definitely have a hard
time making it in the New York market, just think all the commercials
they can jam in if it weren't for the pauses and the numerics that Mr.
DJ sprinkles throughout the day.   8-)    
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hudu@well.sf.ca.us (Scott Marley)
Subject: Re: HAYDN
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:01:45 GMT


Oh dear, Haydn most certainly was not a formula composer: he was
experimenting with musical styles and forms all his life, and I would have a
hard time thinking of another composer who wrote such remarkably varied
music.  Beethoven, maybe; can't think of another.

If his music sounds all the same to you, I think it's probably because you
aren't used to the musical language of the time.  Much as the way that
most baroque music will sound the same when you haven't gotten used to how
to listen to counterpoint yet.  Haydn's language isn't as foreign to us as
baroque was, certainly, but it still takes getting used to.  What's
important in, say, Wagner or Brahms isn't at all the same as what's
important in Haydn, and if you're used to Wagner or Brahms, when you listen
to Haydn it sounds all the same.  It's like looking at abstract art when
you've been used to realistic art and being disappointed because the
pleasures you've come to associate with paintings are nowhere to be found.

Haydn's sort of an abstract composer, and there are pleasures; they just
aren't where you're used to finding them.

Just to take two obvious examples, Haydn was depending on his audience
hearing the key changes and therefore following his modulations; I doubt
that one person in a thousand hears key changes now, 200 years of increasing
chromaticism later.  And Haydn was also counting on his audience following
the forms--sonata form, theme and variations, whatever.  A lot of the
pleasure of listening to Haydn lurks in the way he leads you to expect one
thing and gives you another, but if you aren't paying close enough attention
to the shape of the music to have your expectations raised as to what you're
about to hear next, you can't enjoy the difference of what you actually *do*
hear next.

Oh, my, I do love Haydn.  Don't give up on him too easily: the joys are
subtler and a bit more abstract than with most later composers, but they are
nonetheless real and lasting joys.

Scott Marley
hudu@well.sf.ca.us
From: rod@sj.ate.slb.com (Rod Armstrong)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Other SF greater Bay Area classical radio stations
Date: 13 Nov 92 06:46:17 GMT
Reply-To: rod@sj.ate.slb.com (Rod Armstrong)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Schlumberger Technologies, San Jose, CA.

As Deirdre McClure has observed, classical radio in the SF Bay Area is
not very inspired. In the south bay, at least, an alternative to the "pop"
stations of KDFC and KKHI is the Monterey station of KBOQ at 93.7. The 
announcers are real and quite knowledgeable. The program of most interest to me 
is the new classical music hour at 11pm on Tuesdays. This program 
has a wide range of late twentieth century works, and is consistantly
interesting.

Other part time classical music can be found on KPFA (Berkerly 94.1), weekday
mornings 9 to 11am. Tuesday and Thusrsday mornings are sometimes good,
and Wednesday is world music. The pledge periods are terrible though.
KKUP (Cupertino 91.5) sometimes has classical music in the mornings
(Thursday or Friday), as does KUSP (Santa Cruz 88.9 I think), but I am 
no longer able to receive this station.

The format that KQED had years ago is still available from KXPR Sacramento.
The frequency is about 90.9 I think. 

Does anyone remember the twentieth century music hour that KKHI had
with H. Turcuit (sp?), the former Chronicle crtic before his fall from grace?
Has there been any sort of equivalent program offered?

Rod Armstrong
rod@sj.ate.slb.com
From: hellerS@moravian.edu (sjh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Hampton String Quartet (plays rock?)
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:48:47 GMT
Keywords: Hampton String Quartet

We're looking for any info on the Hampton String Quartet, from what we
read, is a straight classical quartet that plays strictly rock (classics?).
One of our faculty members went to see Carmen at the Met on Monday and
happened to sit next to one of the members of the quartet, who was
apparently about 50 years old, and had performed with/under Boulez, Carter,
Stockhausen, and a host of other prominent musicians, and this faculty
person wants to find out more (so do I). If you have a discography, titles,
experience listening, etc. please post and/or e-mail me. Thanks!

	Steve Heller
	hellerS@moravian.edu OR
	music@moravian.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jon@playfair.Stanford.EDU (Jon Buckheit)
Subject: Re: It's in the wrists.
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 07:12:40 GMT

In article <101095@bu.edu>, spacefox@acs.bu.edu (Godfrey Degamo) writes:
|> 
|>      Well, I tried playing some Chopin when I realized that my hands
|> were a bit small for some of the chords in his music!  I hate that!
|> Anyways, I heard that Chopin had big hands, that Rachmaninoff had
|> big hands, and that Liszt had real huge hands.
|>      I believe someone told me that Liszt's could span 12 keys with
|> his hand.  I can only span with great difficulty, 10. -with real
|> great difficulty.  Actually, its practically only 9 keys. *sniff*
|> 
|>      Anyways, is there any great piano composer/virtuoso who had
|> hands the size of mine or smaller?  (I'm looking for insipiration! :)
|> 
|> 
|> Well, hopefully this isn't a dumb question, if it is, sorry I posted it.
|> 
|>                              -G. Degamo,
|>                               spacefox@acs.bu.edu

Certainly.  Josef Hoffman had smaller hands than yours, and I believe
even had a special Steinway made with a smaller keyboard.  As for pianists
playing today, Alicia de Larrocha is considered one of the greatest and
has very small hands.  She tends to rewrite passages to divide up large
chords and such between the two hands, and can roll chords so quickly they
sound whole.  I'm sure that many pianists with large hands wish they can
play as well as de Larrocha and Hoffman.

(btw, I always heard that Liszt had long fingers, but hadn't heard his
reach was especially large.  Rubinstein had a big stretch, probably around
12 keys).

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Trout (Re: WCRB Top 40 playlist)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:01:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.192721.9971@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
> By the way, when I recently heard the `Death and the Maiden' quartet for the
> first time knowingly, I was amazed at how short the actual theme was.

Do you mean you finally heard the song itself? The theme of the second
movement of the quartet is not exactly the same as the song; it begins
with a quotation of the piano introduction, and ends with a quotation
of the final section. The song itself is quite short, although far
from Schubert's shortest.

> I had
> imagined something much bigger, on the scale of Erlkonig or Schumann's Lorelei
> song form the Eichendorff Liederkreis (whose title escapes me).

_Waldgespraech_. And a wonderful song it is (I'm working on that cycle
at the moment).

> Was this
> Schubert trying to write a dramatic song that bad singers could sing easily?

What on earth is this supposed to mean?

--Robert