HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tired and Impatient (was Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.)
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:52:28 GMT
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com

In article <1992Oct14.233823.4340@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
|> 
|> In article <ldoun7INNr11@spim.mti.sgi.com>
|> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
|> 
|> >In article <1992Oct14.183409.22436@tc.cornell.edu>,
|> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu

|> But the current cabal-speak buzzword is "hypocrite,"
|> remember.  If I were to grant that your "pompous" remark had
|> a basis in fact, it's clear you intended an insult.

Not at all... I consider myself a pompous elitist... It is interesting
that you took the statement as an insult.


|> >You impress me so little it boggles the mind.
|> 
|> And that's an insult too.

That it is...

|> 
|> >You stoop to insults which
|> >lack wit and cleverness without provacation.
|> 
|> And that's an insult.

No, that is a comment on posting style.  However, perhaps I mean
ad hominem attack...

|> 
|> >Having dined with Phil
|> >Ronzone, I have found that though we have differing opinions on almost
|> >every topic, we do not have to stoop to insults.
|> 
|> What did you and your dinner buddy talk about regarding the
|> homophobic trash he publishes here.  Surely you took him to
|> task for that, without insulting, naturally.


You bet your ass I did. 


|> I have nothing against insult.  But to call others out for
|> doing it when you're in the midst of doing it yourself seems
|> more than a slight excess of self-righteous, doesn't it?

I am as guilty of it as you are.  Change insult to ad hominem attack.

Better?

FWA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: M A D O N N A
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:00:33 GMT

In article <0azzs0j@rpi.edu> buckmr@vccsouth05.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>>Yeah, let's get back to more interesting things, whatever they might be...
>Umm, Steve, there is a rather important election occurring on November 3 in
>the United States.

Um, sarcasm again.  It *is* possible to discuss both simultaneously,
y'know!

>But I'm not saying that MADONNA is not more important than whoever the next
>President of the United States-- perish the thought!

Well, just the idea of watching the debates last night nauseated me.
So let me tell you what I did (really): watched BBC's tape of the
season premiere of STtNG (ick, such drek after such a cliffhanger), followed
by the rereleased EMI video of Callas' 1958 gala at the Paris Opera.
-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: wendyt@cs.washington.edu (Wendy Thrash)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Bonjour, Tristero (Was Re: Traditional Family Values)
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:42:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: beaver.1992Oct16.214219.3486
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Oct16.002500.3993@netcom.com> foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye) writes:
>Are members of the 'Cabal' also supporters of the house of Thurn und Taxis?
>I've been contending with a power greater than I realised!

I can't speak for the Cabal*, but I come from a long line of potsmasters --
my mother, my father, my father's father, my great-great-grandfather . . .

*I've been informed that the Cabal's Most Mighty and Exalted Governing Board
have decided that henceforth only Melmothra can speak for the Cabal.
---
-Wendy T&T., feeling a tad pynchonoid
From: spencer@bird.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Would someone repost the "questions for heterosexuals?"
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:09:22 GMT
Reply-To: spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Live Organ Transplants

Way back this summer I started to demuffin with this and stopped for
unknown reasons (it was near 2 in the morning and I was having trouble
phrasing what I was trying to say) and eventually ended up demuffining
in another thread, but since this has popped up again...

In article <ldr9v7INNhpo@spim.mti.sgi.com>, dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>25 questions for your heterosexual friends  - posted without permission
>originally by Martin Rochin, Ph.D.
>
>[...]
>
>2. When and how did you decide that you were a heterosexual?

I don't think this is as ridiculous a question as some people would like
to believe.  I will concede, however, that it is worded in such a way as
to have negative connotations.

Those of you who are put off by the original question (i.e. homosexual
instead of heterosexual), would you still be offended if the question
were reworded to "When did you become aware that some people are
heterosexual and some people are homosexual and that you are one or the
other or bi?"

I think it's quite possible to ask the question completely without
malice.  Depending on how it's asked (by a friend, for example), I'd say
it could be a very legitimate question.  I like to know my friends really
well, don't you?  I'd say it's hard to know a person well without having a
certain insight into how that person thinks and (to drag out the cliche)
what makes that person tick.  Things like when someone became aware that
the concept of sexual orientation existed, let alone which orientation or
lack of orientation s/he has, contribute to make that pesron what s/he is
today (damn this is beginning to sound really cheesy).  To understand
that person today, it helps to understand their thoughts, feelings, and
background.

Anyway I'm doing better this time than the article I ended up aborting,
although I am operating on a sum total of 19 hours of sleep in the last
4 days (life as a CS major) so then again maybe not.

Does any of this make sense?  I'm having trouble making the third
paragraph express what I'm thinking, so I hope people see what I'm
trying to say.

Flames will be ignored; civil, thoughtful replies and criticisms are
welcomed.

-----
sss/PU'94 Dept of CS (spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu)/JvNCnet (spencer@jvnc.net)
"Weird?  We've experienced *death*!  Now somehow we've brought back our
sins physically, and they're *pissed*."     [Flatliners]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Subject: Re: Further Butchification
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 00:36:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.213342.1881@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.150923.23624@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess 
>Anderson) writes:
>>
>
>It doesn't cooperate growth-wise the way it used to for long hair in the 
>front, but it's longer in the back than it's ever been. 

Tell it! He has the most adorable little tail dangling down his neck!

-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543
                         Fax: 805.944.5958
From: jct@mti.sgi.com (Chris Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Optilink is real, and they're hiring
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:18:08 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Mips Technologies, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: twink.mti.sgi.com

We'll be right back after this quick look at what's going on in the
other newsgroups.  Chris?

Thanks, Chris.  Free-wheeling, fast-moving, and full of fun -- that's
what the critics say about world-famous Usenet superstar Cl*yt*n Cr*m*r.
And now, you have the opportunity to actually *work* with Cr*m*r, in
a real office, in the really fun city of Petaluma, California!  Cr*m*r's
company, DSC/Optilink, has placed several recruitment articles into
misc.jobs.offered, and they're sure to have their doors beaten down by
job-seekers eager to meet and work with this net personality who's
been such a source of happiness, joy, and glee.  For Yentatainment
Tonight, I'm Chris Thomas.

Thanks, Chris.  And coming up next, we'll take our exclusive, behind-
the-cameras look at Bob Sarver's newest smash hit film.  Bob Sarver in
his version of "Last of the Red Hot Lovers," right after this.


-- 
Chris Thomas                                                (415) 390-4118
S4/7 b g+ l y+ z+ n+ o+ x-/+ a++ u v-/+ j++                jct@mti.sgi.com
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: John Gielgud / Secret Agent
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:04:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1b8pb8INNa1v@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.042508.4095@reed.edu> 
>nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>> I just had the pleasure of seeing Secret Agent, the 1936 Hitchcock
>> film with John Gielgud in it. It's quite good. A couple of motss
>> relevant things came to mind:
>>
>> What's going on with the implied homoeroticism in that movie?!
>
>I wish "Secret Agent" were fresher in my mind.  I'm sure there
>are movie queens out there (Howard maybe?) who've got the movie
>down cold.  Sorry.  Now if you'd like to talk about homoeroticism, 
>implied and overt, in Hitchcock's films, we'll be up all night.
>
I'm not sure if I'm the 'Howard' in question, but Arne is right
on the money. I've only seen 'The Secret Agent' a couple of times
and it pales in its homoerotic cache compared to 'Rope' and 'Strangers
On A Train' (and was there ever a cliche fag psycho like Robert
Walker?). I think Robert Young was just awful in it. I think the
novel from which it was made was by Somerset Maugham.

Come to think of it, anything with Robert Young must be, by definition,
scoured of homoerotic content.

>> Which leads me to the next question - anyone have any good Gielgud
>> stories? My base of knowledge for him is rather odd. I've only seen
>> three of his productions (all movies: Secret Agent, Prospero's Books,
>> and Caligula (I told you, it was a rather odd collection)). I'm told
>> he's been arrested more than once for crusing young men in the streets
>> of London.
>
>Yes, and once just after being knighted.  (Not on the streets, 
>however. He was answering nature's call in a public toilet.)  Well, 
>you should see Providence -- Gielgud is *magnificent* in it, as is 
>Elaine Stritch, even if the film itself is something of a trial.  
>He's quite funny in The Loved One.  What else.  Oh, he was in Becket.
>There really isn't a whole lot that's good.  Besides, Gielgud really 
>isn't a film actor.

Let's not forget Gielgud showing up in the unabridged verion of
Frankie Goes To Hollywood's 'Relax' video dressed in full leather.


-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543
                         Fax: 805.944.5958
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ann Lander's YUCK!
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:52:16 GMT
Organization: Carlson Library, Univ of Toledo

In article <1992Oct13.165942.1715@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, uctlxpd@ucl.ac.uk 
   (Peter Bartlett) writes:
> Wigs, dresses, chaps and harnesses?  In CALGARY?!?!? Things are looking
> up ... ;)

     Now the fundamentalists in Alberta & Calgary really have a cause to fight:
MIXED FABRICS!

     Tres gauche!
-- 
                                               "Librarian, Leather bound"
Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,  (Univ of Toledo)           * * * * 
PO Box 12650                  Toledo OH  43606-0250            *   *   
(w): 419-537-2629      fac2813@uoft01                            *   
(h): 419-243-2740      fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu         B4 t+ w- g s+ k
From: bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: elton john
Date: 10 Oct 92 00:22:19 GMT

key@soda.berkeley.edu (peter li'ir key) writes:
> i may be a little clueless, so please forgive me.
> i just saw elton john say he was a gay man on mtv.
> this was during a press conference about his new song,
> _the last song_ (which was dedicated to ryan white).
> was he out before this?

actually I think he was bi- (at least he admittedly was bi back then)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:30:51 GMT

> drp@dosbears.uucp writes:

>Other than recognizing the name, I don't know anything about
>Jayne Mansfield, but I will suggest that Madonna is an
>iconoclast rather than an icon.

Madonna: icono-wannabe.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Vacationing in Europe
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:45:54 GMT

richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) wrote: 
->Am I the only one who finds this posting wildly insane?  With respect
->to "gay places", "gay hotels", "gay restaurants":

yes.  it's an interesting phenomenon. i'm sure the idea started
because gay and lesbian people wanted to patronize establishments
which wouldn't make them feel uncomfortable when travelling with their
partners ... but now it's become a sub-market: there is a gay holiday
industry now ...and people expect gay hotels (where everyone is
naturally very attractive and available) and restaurants (with campy
waitrons who know how to do the "brooch, pearls, earring, and wave")
... and soon it's hard to remember why you went to europe/puerto
vallarta/away from home.  

i've said it before: more often than not, establishments catering to
travellers with "gay" in their name or description are usually not
good value.  except in the smallest towns in most conservative areas,
nobody gives a stuff who you check in with ... and the information on
the local scene can be had by going to the local gay bookstore/bar and
talking to the locals (and, of course, doing this may make you friends
for life, so you won't have to stay at the ramada next time ... ).

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 16:03:49 GMT

In article <67456@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Paul Asente writes:
>>dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>>(OK, I still think the Max Montoya shaving scene in "Max Makes it Big"
>>>is the dasysophile's equivalent of a snuff film, but that's MY problem.)
>>Right sentiment, wrong movie...
>Indeed. It's _Skinner Jack's Bedtime Stories_.

I am chagrined and mortified, especially because I had to (re)view all of
these recently for my upcoming reviews in Chasse aux Ours.  But perhaps that
explains it all too.  IMNO, the only good thing about _Skinner Jack_ is
Skinner Jack, who appears much too infrequently, and only as a narrator.

>I remember this
vividly because James Williams, who *is* Altomar Video,

I thought Rolf and Thor *are* Altomar video.  Is he one of those two?

>asked me if I wanted to be part of the JO-ing background in a scene he was
>going to shoot in a few days... and this was the scene. When I
>found out what was involved, I politely declined.

I guess SuperFurr coming to Max's rescue wouldn't have been in the script...

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:45:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct13.184515.10045
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Oct13.174231.8920@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
> Where are Jews on the whole now?

A valid question.

> Are there proportionally as many Blacks sending their children off to
> school as there are Jews?  I don't think so!

And... now take this statement further.

> Yeah, we used to be such strong allies.

The white participation in the early days of the civil rights movement was
largely Jewish, but you knew that.  That's why there's a fair amount of
hand-wringing about the resurgence of anti-Semitism in certain black
circles, and the collapse of what used to be an alliance of sorts,
politically.  A lot of this, I'll bet, comes from an increase in class
and economic divisions.

> Maybe that was before Jews start sending their children to American
> universities where they quickly learn what it is to be White.

Well, they didn't back then.    Children of the 50s, though many were
red diaper babies, I'll bet.

> Maybe that's when they started seeing Blacks through White eyes, with the
> same disgust and disrespect ...

You know, for everything that's been said about Ella's "songbook"
recordings, I've always enjoyed her rendition of "Hey, Johnny One-Note."

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: Fri,  9 Oct 92 19:37:46 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Oct5.164745.18472@spdcc.com> <1992Oct9.054135.27791@adobe.com>

Paul Asente writes:
>dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>(OK, I still think the Max Montoya shaving scene in "Max Makes it Big"
>>is the dasysophile's equivalent of a snuff film, but that's MY problem.)
>
>Right sentiment, wrong movie...

Indeed. It's _Skinner Jack's Bedtime Stories_. I remember this
vividly because James Williams, who *is* Altomar Video, asked me
if I wanted to be part of the JO-ing background in a scene he was
going to shoot in a few days... and this was the scene. When I
found out what was involved, I politely declined.
 
() Man was born free, and everywhere he is in chains.
()      -- Jean-Jacques Rousseau
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cjr10@cccvm.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Russell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:38:07 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corp.

In article <1992Oct14.232859.24149@PacBell.COM>
rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
 
>> cjr10@cccvm.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Russell) writes:
>
>>I recognize that many inequities and wrongs still exist and it
>>is difficult to separate the threads of present oppression from
>>former opression. And depending upon which part of the world you
>>are currently observing, one may argue that conditions have not
>>improved at all.
>>
>>If I may restate my original (somewhat sarcastic) comment, I would
>>ask whether we should always hold against a former oppressor, as
>>a class group, for what once was done after that wrong has been
>>righted, particularly when the individuals which comprise the
>>class identified as the former oppressor are not now the same
>>individuals that were originally responsible?
>
>In one paragraph you recognize that "many inequities and wrongs
>still exist" and that there is "present oppression."  In the
>second, you talk about "former oppressor[s]" and about a wrong
>having been righted.  So which is it?  And who are the present
>oppressors?  Do these inequities and wrongs continue without
>human agency?  Just because you and the other white people you
>know don't actively persecute people of color, do you really
>believe that you're not accomplices in the system that does?
 
I may be new to the net, and haven't quite got things figured
out here yet, but I get the distinct impression that I'm being
attacked. What is this talk about me, and "other white people"
I know (for whom I can't speak) passively (inferred from not
actively) persecuting people of color? That I am an accomplice?
 
I like to think (naive as it may be) that being gay, I have
a sensitivity to minority situations and inequity. I don't
exactly fit the standards of the Moral Majority.
 
I may be part of the ubiquitous system (and you're not?) but
I ain't no accomplice!
 
Chris Russell
From: terryh@ukcsd.uk.sun.com (Terry Heatlie - Sun U.K.)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Joan-Rhymes (was Re: Sean)
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:28:33 GMT
Reply-To: terry.heatlie@uk.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems Federal, Milpitas, CA.
NNTP-Posting-Host: virgil.uk.sun.com

In article <1992Oct11.044555.6596@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Oct11.041703.3517@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu
|> (Nelson Minar) writes:
|> 
|> >Next time you're in Portland, Roger, I'll take you up to my bedroom
|> 
|> Bet you say that to all the boys ...
|> 
|> I know it's not true, but I like the idea, you see ...
|> 
|> >and show you my copy of the fourteenth Newspeak dictionary. It's got
|> >ten thousand less words than the one before, quite astounding.
|> 
|> I wonder what this means.  Does it mean newspeak is less
|> common, so 10,000 fewer [NB, countable things] words need to
|> be cited, or so much more common 10,000 words have such
|> currency they don't need to be listed, or ...?

The idea of Newspeak is that you strip more and more out of the language
so that in the end the poor saps can't wrongthink, sorry, even be subversive
in thought, because the language they speak simply does not provide them
with the correct concepts.  Doubleplusgood for Big Brother, very very
bad for the rest of us.

But then you knew that really, didn't you :-)

|> 
|> -- 
|> Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
|> Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
|> NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
|> Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888


Regards,
Terry Heatlie.

Disclaimer:  all my own work (except this disclaimer, which I nicked).
*** Nobody knows I'm an anarcho-pacifist vegan bisexual ***
Newsgroups: soc.motss