HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fevava@sicsun.epfl.ch (Felipe VALENZUELA)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: El modelo chileno
Date: 19 Nov 92 12:29:47 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne

In article <Yf2jQ_i00Uzx06FFFO@andrew.cmu.edu>, dh4w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Daniel Reid Helsten) writes:
|> >>>La conspiracisn se organizaba con al ayuda de USA para decorrar un gobierno
|> >>>legitimo.
|>  
|> >>Que evidencia tienes de esto?
|> >>Me parece un mito que todos crean sin razon.
|>  
|> >No, no es mito - basta leer el informen de la comision del Senado
|> >norteamericano encabezada por el Senador Church.
|> 
|> Bueno yo estuve refiriendo a Kissinger y lo que dijo en su libro
|> 'Years of Upheaval".  A mi me parece que Pinochet era capaz de hacer 
|> un coup d'etat solo y sin la ayuda de los EEUU.  Tambien segun lo que
|> dice Kissinger era que Allende estaba haciendo todo posible para 
|> destruir los otros partidos politicos.  
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> Daniel R. Helsten
|> dh4w@cmu.edu
|> 
|> "History is a lie agreed upon." Napoleon

Es posible que Pinochet haya podido hacer el golpe militar solo PERO no fue asi.
La ayuda existio.

No negemos lo evidente.

Felipe Valenzuela
From: rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Re-Salas
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:39:18 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <19424@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
>Mark Rosenfelder writes:
>

>
>>Edelmiro's opinions are nothing new in Latin America either.  In their
>>knee-jerk opposition to communism and subservience to the US, they are
>>mostly the views of the governing elites.
>
>You mean the democratically elected governing elites.  Now I understand why 
>neo-communists are against neo-liberals in L.A.: they fear democracy will put 
>the masses in control, when in fact they should have some rebel anti yankee 
>dictator in touch with Havanna leading their cause.

 Right on Edelmiro, not only now but for a long time they'd been afraid
 of democracy. Even in Cuba the communist party supported Batista and were
 against Castro, of course, once Castro took power then they got on the
 bandwagon and ended up stealing the revolution from the Cuban people.
 
--
Ray I. Ravelo                "We're your opposition, Mr. Castro, we 10 million
Office of Academic Computing. Cubans who look around us in terror"
UC, Irvine.                 from the open letter to Castro by M.E. Cruz-Varela
From: donq@acs.bu.edu (Jose Otero)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Definicion de Pais (was Re- Falklands)
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:45:42 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: donq@acs.bu.edu


AAP le escribe a Edelmiro:

>Mira, aun si las malvinas no fueran argentinas, al menos los argentinos 
>tenemos un pais.


Adolfo, cuando lei tu comentario acerca de que Edelmiro (puertorrique~o) no tiene pais me entro una grandisima curiosidad pues toda mi vida yo he considerado que PUERTO RICO es un pais (colonia de los EEUU por desgracia) asi que lo verifique en un par de diccionarios:

Pais segun el Diccionario de la Lengua Espa~ola (Real Academia Espa~ola)

Definicion: Nacion, region, provincia, o territorio. 

entonces ojee el significado de nacion:

Definicion: Conjunto de personas de un mismo origen etnico y que generalmente hablan un mismo idioma y tiene una tradiccion comun.


Pais segun el Diccionario General de la Lengua Espa~ola VOX:

Definicion: Region, reino, provincia y territorio

esto salio bajo region:

Definicon: Porcionde territorio determinado por caracteres etnicos o circunstancias especiales de clima, produccion, topografia, gobierno, etc.


Pero como no estaba conforme verifique la definicion de pais en otros idiomas:

Ingles (Webster Dictionary):  a political state or nation or its territory

Frances (Tresor de la Langue Francaise): Division territoriale habitee par une collectivite, et constituant une entite geographic et humaine.

Portugues (Dicionario da Lingua portuguesa):  a patria

despues de haber verificado las definiciones no me queda duda que nunca me habia equivocado y por lo tanto Edelmiro si puede decir que Puerto Rico es un pais. Pero de ahi a que lo presente como una utopia democratica hay mucha diferencia. Me parece que lo que tratabas de decir es que no somos un pais libre. Si es asi estas enm lo correcto aunque a mi no me guste la situacion. 

PUERTO RICO es de los puertorrique~os
y las MALVINAS son argentinas en esto no cabe duda.

Att., 

Jose F. Otero
DonQ@acs.bu.edu
From: ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Puerto Rico y Me'xico
Date: 21 Nov 92 16:27:52 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

Dice Hector Salgado:

>Como suenan los versos de Pablo Milanes:

>Puerto Rico, ave que cayo al mar
>yo te invito a volar..


Como siempre se le atribuyen ideas de otros a Pablo.  Los versos originales 
son de una poeta puertorriquen~a del siglo pasado, Lola Rodriguez de Tio, no 
del plagiador panfletario citado arriba, quien nunca ha dado reconocimiento a 
quien los ideo:

"Puerto Rico y Cuba son 
de un pajaro las dos alas
Reciben flores o balas 
sobre un mismo corazon."

El anejo del canta-"autor" (o plagiador que mas da) que dice que Puerto Rico
"cayo al mar" es un anacronismo.  Desgraciadamente, el ala que cayo al mar fue
Cuba, cuyo gobierno escogio el camino del captalismo de estado y en su afan 
expansionista por el continente agredio a un centener de pueblos hermanos 
sufragando y armando a sus rebeldes internos y externos. Por todo lo cual, 
Pablito Propaganda deberia poner sus versos al dia para que los hijos de Cuba 
que salen huyedo de los trogloditas que la tienen hundida en el Mar, no tengan 
que salir del mar en tubos neumaticos.  Pero no se preocupen los Cubanos, que 
los puertorriquen~os los vamos a invitar a volar nuevamente y si los hijo de 
Puerto Rico les tienen que dar una mano para que el tiburon de Castro la 
suelte, alli estaremos.

Edelmiro
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Monday, 16 Nov 1992 20:21:20 CST
From: Juan A. Varela F. <U35334@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Amor y Control

Amor y Control es el ultimo disco de Ruben Blades.  Yo lo compre y me parece
muy bueno.  Recomiendo en particular las canciones "El Apagon", "Adan Garcia",
"El Cilindro" y sobre todo "Amor y Control".  El disco en general, como es
de esperar de Ruben Blades, contiene canciones que hablan de temas del
momento, de tragedias del pasado y del presente.  Tambien aflora los
sentimientos del canta-autor, quien perdio su madre al cancer.  Una vez mas
Ruben Blades demuestra su sencibilidad social en canciones como "El cilindro",
y "Adan Garcia".

*  Juan A. Varela F.                                U35334@UICVM.UIC.EDU      *
*  University of Illinois at Chicago                72070.3046@COMPUSERVE.COM *
*                                                  TELEPHONE (708)771-9015    *
*  Te quiero flor de los mares,                          FAX (708)771-9049    *
*  verte libre y soberana!                                                    *
From: rodin@acs.bu.edu (luis del)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: PPD WILL WIN THE NEXT ELECTIONS?
Keywords: PPD MEMBER OUT OF TOUCH
Date: 22 Nov 92 02:04:47 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: rodin@acs.bu.edu




>Jimmy:
>
>	No te apures... :-) Las pro'ximas elecciones las gana el PPD...
>para no perder la costumbre de cambiar cada cierto tiempo... :-)
>
>Tony
>Jimmy:

>	No te apures... :-) Las pro'ximas elecciones las gana el PPD...
>para no perder la costumbre de cambiar cada cierto tiempo... :-)
>
>Tony



Dear Tony,

	 The PPD lost the Fortaleza, the Senate, the House of Representatives, and now Tony you have lost your sense of reality. Which is indicative of why all those PPD incumbents were ousted by the people:they too had lost touch with reality. The arrogance and Smugness of your turse remark is unbelievable; I mean this election was not a close one, it was not a rout, it was not a trouncing, but an all out massacre. The PPD lost it all. All. Don't you even want to ask Why? I mean really, if you guys would have wo





n like we did, we would really reconsider our values, and our policies. But not you guys, because Tony has asured Jimy that all is well at the PPD. 
	I tell you Tony even managed to sully, with, PDD doublethink, Jimmy's idealistic article of respect for the people and democracy, with just base cynical partisanship. Yes, it doesn't matter if the Governor elect does a good job, it doesn't matter that he solves the unemployment, the crime, the educational and helath care inequities, because no matter what Puerto Ricans so they wont loose the custom of changing every so often, they will vote PPD! You in a perverse way I wish i could have that attitude, bec





ause then, with that fatalistic cynicism, I would not want to do anything productive for Puerto Rico.
	Reading Jimmy's article I see that we would have disagreed during the debates and issues of the election process. But because he shows respect for the winners and loosers of this election by showing respect for the election itself, I in turn rewspect his ideals. It is a pitty that they can be perversed so easily, and succinctly by a member of his own Party. I am confident that if the PPD in genral would have adopted Jimmy's attitudes, rather relying on yours the beating would not have been so bad--God you





 might have even won. But that is the price one pays, for believing in the Status Quo.
From: robarr@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Robert O'Barr)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Re-Salas
Date: 15 Nov 92 18:35:13 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <101930@bu.edu> donq@acs.bu.edu (Jose Otero) writes:
>
>
>> To an american, it looks like the latin-americans here on s.c.l-a are
>> borrowing the tactics of their dictators to remove any opinion that
>> doesn't agree with their interests.
>> 
>> Sinceramente,
>> 
>> Robert
>
>No Robert no estamos emulando a los dictadores del pasado, sino a las tacticas intervencionistas del gobierno de EEUU que los coloca en el poder segun su conveniencia.
>
>
>Jose F. Otero
>DonQ@acs.bu.edu

Well Jose, I was thinking in particular of dictators like Castro,
Noriega, and the Ortega brothers where the opposition press was always
in danger of being thrown in prison.  Thank goodness that our
"interventionist" policies have lead to democratic elections in most
of these contries where dictatorships used to be the norm and the
people have tossed out the maximum leaders and the communists.

For someone who's lived his entire life in a country were someone
can express his opinions without fear, the opinions expressed by Edelmiro 
are nothing new.  However, some of you have never been subjected to
these "alternate" viewpoints because they are not tolerated in your
countries.  In many ways, latin-america has been as politically
close-minded as the countries in the middle-east.  They have a faith
that the United States is the great Satan and that only through a
marxist takeover can true salvation come.  Anyone who does not
accept these dogmas are branded as heritics and/or a lunatics.
The funny thing is that most latin-american "intellectuals" are out
of touch with their own masses.  They fear that the ignorant masses
might elect someone like Saul Menem who will privatize national
holdings, sign free trade agreements with the Great Satan, warm
relations with Great Britain (i.e. admit they were wrong about the
Falklands)  Send a few naval ships over to do combat with Sadam
Hussein to show Argentinas support for the new world order. etc.
etc.

Sincerely,

Robert
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: robarr@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Robert O'Barr)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Statehood for Puerto Rico?
Date: 21 Nov 92 01:20:56 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Nov20.202320.7994@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
 >
 >>    Mi amigo Adolfo, 
 >>
 >>    Tu no tienes comentarios pero y si tengo uno.
 >>
 >>    Por favor no te unas a los ignorantes y aprende a diferenciar entre los 
 >>puertorriquen~os de aqui (EEUU) y los de Puerto Rico.  Estas estadisticas son 
 >>basadas en la comunidad puertorriquen~a de EEUU que lamentablemente esta 
 >>muy por debajo de la situacion economica de la Isla (P.R.). 
 >>
 >>
 >Y por que no se vuelve esta gente a Puerto Rico?
 >Por que se fue, en primer lugar, esta gente de Puerto Rico?
 >Que pasaria con la economia de Puerto Rico si toda esta gente decide 
 >volverse?
 >
 >AAP

Adolf,

I suggest you do the following:

Go get an encyclopedia (letter P).  Look up Puerto Rico.  Pay
special attention to the geographical information including total
land area.  Divide the total population of Puerto Rico by this area
and you will find that the density of persons per square mile is
sumamente grande.  An island the size of Puerto Rico can only
support so many people and the population soon reaches a size where
unemployment becomes significant.  Needless to say if the 3
million Puertorriquen~os in the states landed on the island
tomorrow, they would have a difficult time finding work!

These facts also ought to be considered when Puerto Rico is compared
to other Latin-american countries.  For example, when comparing the
industrial output of PR with Mexico, one should remember that Mexico
has several thousand times the natural resourses that Puerto Rico
has.

Robert
From: ez000281@othello.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Encuesta sobre Edelmiro
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:22:39 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

Me parece algo gracioso el que en vez de discutir sobre temas como:

1.-El milagro economico chileno
2.-La possesion de las Falklands
3.-La sociedad cubana
4.-La nueva politica norteamericana hacia Haiti
5.-El proceso de "paz" salvadoren~o
6.-Las elecciones en Panama
7.-El ban~o de sangre colombiano
8.-La fracasada huelga general en la Argentina
9.-La crisis politica venezolana
10.-La continuacion del terror sendereista y
11.-La bancarrota del marxismo latinoamericano

Algunos ilustrissimos comentaristas en la red prefieren discutir a

:Edelmiro Salas

Lo que es peor, prefieren analizar mi estilo e interpretar mi discurso. No
quisiera desalentar a mis compan~eros de red, sino al contrario, continuen con
su proyecto mientras yo lleno mis arcas con comentarios odiosos son mi mejor
prueba de que alguien me esta leyendo.

Saludos,

Edelmiro
From: cfa@duke.edu (Carlos Alzola)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Re-Salas
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:52:10 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <41016@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> robarr@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Robert O'Barr) writes:
>
>in danger of being thrown in prison.  Thank goodness that our
>"interventionist" policies have lead to democratic elections in most
>of these contries where dictatorships used to be the norm and the
>people have tossed out the maximum leaders and the communists.
>

....And I thought, that the advent of democracy in latin america was the     
result of the people getting tired of dictatorships and pushing hard for
peaceful and democratic changes. I suppose the impeachment of Collor de Mello
is also the result of the US policies. Boy, some opinions in this group never
cease to amaze me.


Robert, you have a great deal to learn about Latin America

Carlos Alzola

cfa@biostat.mc.duke.edu
From: ch981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tony Alicea)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Statehood for Puerto Rico?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 23:32:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ch981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tony Alicea)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu () says:

>I agree totally with your position and think you shold write to your 
>Congressperson.  Perhaps they will allow Puerto Ricans to take such a vote.  

Which shows PR is a colony of the USA. No respect!

>Instead, they force the commonwealth option into the picture so tha the status 
>quo remains.  If there would be a referendum in PR which would ask people to 
>choose between statehood or independence, 85% of the population would vote for 
>statehood, and THAT is why some in congress fear such a vote.
>Edelmiro

*How* can you say that?! Are you misinformed or just plain lying?!
The true percentage is near 50, period. I've been a Puertorrican longer
than you have! 

Edelmiro is a pro-satatehood fanatic and therefore the "85%" figure he
gave which is incorrect, PERIOD!.

Please speak the truth about my little island, reserve your fantasies
for *YOURSELF*!

Tony
From: ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Re-Salas
Date: 20 Nov 92 05:49:39 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

Robert O'Barr says:

>If we must play the blame and credit game, we should at least demand
>some kind of consistancy.  Many seem to be of the opinion that
>anything negative that happens in their country is 100% the fault of
>the U.S.A. while anything positive that happens in their country is
>0% to the credit of the policies of the U.S.  

Actually the ratio is 95% to 5%,.they try not to appear so ludicrous.

[...]

>Instead of the proletariate arising and bringing in the marxist
>state, we are witnessing that the masses prefer the U.S. model of
>democratic capitalism.

The people do, but a small fragment of the middle class is turning towards 
facism, as we are seein here on the net.

>1)  If we allow the people populating the Falklands to decide their
>own fate, will they choose to be an Argentine coloney?

Never, but it doesn't matter since
Argentineans think they have a god given
right to those islands, and if someone 
thinks the contrary he must be a lunatic.

>2)  Has there ever been a strong sentiment among the inhabitants of the
>Falklands to throw off the British oppressors and subject themselves
>to their rightful argentine rulers?

No, they were in fact praying that
they would be rescued from the gorillas
who invaded the islands.

Edelmiro
From: jbarth@ep.ieee.org (Jeremy Barth)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Cuba's AIDS Policy
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:50:22 GMT
Organization: IEEE, New York, NY

Edelmiro writes, in response to David Sangurima's posting
of the APHA protest of the Cuban minister of Public Health's
visa refusal:

>"...then the protest note would come from the gay community
>in the U.S. which has seen how AIDS patients in Cuba have been
>interned in concentration camps where they await their final
>days secluded from society..."

Cuba's AIDS policy can indeed be questioned.  Why, for instance,
is AIDS singled out and not other, far more infectious diseases?
Is this a sign of some underlying homophobia among Cuban elites?
However, the writer ignores at least one important, positive
aspect of the Cuban AIDS policy:  sick people are *guaranteed*
treatment and medication by the state.  And they get it.  
Contrast this to a homeless Black man on the streets of 
New York City, with no health benefits of any kinds.  The
only *freedom* such a man has is to die like a dog in
the street.

I think there can be a better mean between Cuba's approach
and that in the US.  It's not a zero sum game.  But if I
were sick with AIDS and had no health insurance, I wouldn't
want to "await my final days" (as Edelmiro would put it)
retching on some park bench in New York or Los Angeles.


Jeremy Barth
From: donq@acs.bu.edu (Jose Otero)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re- Las Falklands
Date: 20 Nov 92 03:26:32 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: donq@acs.bu.edu




Edelmiro escribe:


> Jose, por si no lo sabias America es el nombre de dos continentes no es  
> el nombre de unas islas. 


Mira Edelmiro si algo me molesta es que me coloquen palabras que no he dicho en la boca. Si puedes probarme donde mencine que America no era el nombre de un continente hazlo. Lo unico que yo hice cuando escribi acerca de las Malvinas fue mencionar que estaban localizadas en este hemisferio. Si piensas que estoy incorrecto vete de oyente a una clase de geografia 101 o mejor aun estrena la enciclopedia britanica que tanto mencionas.


>Me parece que en geografia 1 te pueden ensen~ar que una 
>isla no es "parte de" un continente.  

Edelmiro si como ya te mencione nunca escribi la palabra continente sino la palabra HEMISFERIO (si no la entiendes verifica un diccionario) y de paso en tu correccion has cometido un peque~o error. Para ayudarte a perfeccionar tu conocimiento sobre esta area te sugiero que tomes la enciclopedia britanica y leas lo referente a las placas tectonicas. Como tarea en esto de se~alar a donde pertenece cada isla te dejo que analises la diferencia entre Nauru, Taihiti, Guam, Vanuatu, etc.. con las antillas o las i





slas britanicas que tanto idolatras.

>falklandenses

Nuevo gentilicio????

Dejame corregirte: ARGENTINOS 

Pero en la actualidad quienes viven son ciudadanos britanicos debido a la toma ilegal de las islas por el Reino Unido.

Jose F. Otero
DonQ@acs.bu.edu
From: 4ortega_b@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Fly-Latino Looking for UNIV.SAN JUAN
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:26:38 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US


 



Como estan? Me gustaria saver si algiun  sabe la direcion the La Universida
de San Juan estoy buscando unos familiares.  Y estoy escribiendo de Jersey City 
,    New Jersey  ST. PETERS COLLEGE
my name is Benjamin Ortega    PEACE!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: llp7q@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Linda L. Phillips)
Subject: Call for Artwork and Art Papers
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:26:03 GMT

              CALL FOR ARTWORK AND ART PAPERS
               FOR THE SPRING 1993 ISSUE OF
               IRIS: A JOURNAL ABOUT WOMEN


IRIS features articles, original fiction and poetry, art, book reviews, humor,
news, and personal essays focusing on women's issues.  We write for an intel-
ligent and varied audience of both sexes.  We are a non-profit organization,
staffed by volunteers, and publish twice yearly, in November and April.

If you are interested in contributing to IRIS, please submit two clear copies
of all manuscripts, and use language sensitive to differences in gender,
sexual orientation, and race.  Follow the parenthetical MLA style.  Final
decisions rest with the editorial board.  Send SASE if you wish your work
returned.

Original artwork should be submitted in the form of high quality black and
white prints or halftones.  We welcome work pertaining to women's issues
and women's involvement in the arts, and are particularly interested in
featuring experimental, less conventional work.

Art features may be reviews, interviews, or essays on contemporary or
historical artists working in any media.  Features should be 500-1000 words,
typed and double-spaced, and include black and white prints or halftones of
the work discussed.

                     SUBMIT FIRST DRAFT OR ABSTRACT BY JAN 8 1993

                          ADDRESS ALL CONTRIBUTIONS TO

ART OR ART FEATURES EDITOR,IRIS,BOX 323 HEALTH SCIENCES CENTER, UNIVERSITY
OF VIRGINIA, CHARLOTTESVILLE, VA  22908    (TEL) (804) 924-4500
From: ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Los disparates de Edelmiro
Date: 20 Nov 92 05:24:16 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

Todd Edward DeVore says:

>[...]
>I didnt mean to imply that th US is the source of all of Latin Americas
>problems I was just trying to illistrate that what the US govt. does or 
allows 
>doesnt always seem to coincide eith a a high priority for human rights,as i 
>thought was implied by someone who writes a lot of stuff in this newsgroup i 
>find pretty incomprehensible.  

Fine, I just hope you don't think our foreign policy is perfect, especially 
when it comes to previous administrations, but we now have high hopes that 
President Clinton will change our foreign policy in Latin America with lots of 
human rights issues beginnin with.... Haiti and Cuba.

Edelmiro