HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
Subject: Re: DOS comparison
Keywords: DOS
Date: 24 Jan 93 12:16:39 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


   Yes, an article(s) on Atari 8-bit OS's would be interesting, but you
may have trouble pulling all the nasty threads apart: my understanfding
is that there were many DOSs running around, that were a legitamite
DOS, with someone else's name slapped on the front, like the famous
"<first name deleted> <lastname deleted too> Pirate DOS", where the
COPY DISK function was replaced with the label PIRATE DISK, and a
message was put on the screen, saying that this option would 
"copy ANY disk". (Of course it didn't).  By the way, I didn't see
MyDISxxxx  MyDOS on your list....
From: bmarcum@world.std.com (Bill Marcum)
Subject: Re: File Headers.
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: net
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:27:58 GMT

$2E0 is the run address, $2E2 is the init address.
From: phbill@cyberden.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
Subject: Mac65
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 20:41:25 PST
Reply-To: phbill@cyberden.sf.ca.us
Organization: Indescribable Creations

Well, I finally got the sourcecode to MyDOS 4.5... in Mac65 tonkenized 
format  (for those of you unfamiliar with "tokenized" format, if you know 
anything about BASIC, and understand the difference between a "SAVE" and 
a "LIST"...  a "SAVE" writes the file in a code...  an example (not true, 
however) would be 1 = PRINT 2 = REM etc..  while a list would actually 
write out the same data you'd see on the screen when you list the file 
(the characters "P", "R", "I", "N", "T", would be sent to the file, 
device, etc.))

Anyways... in the README.DOC file of the MyDOS source, it says that 
ANALOG #60 had a file that could read Mac65 tokenized source and "list" 
it for you, but I don't have any ANALOGs, or this file, nor do I know 
what this file is called (issue #60 was all that was specified)..

so.. if anyone has either.. the MyDOS 4.5 (DUP only, is ok with me!) 
sourcecode as TEXT that's readable by humans, OR that ANALOG program from 
issue #60, PLEASE e-mail me!

thanx!!!

           \
  /\  /    /\  / /  /
 /\/ /\  \/\/ / /  /    PhBill@Cyberden.SF.CA.US, or
/     /   \/ /  \  \    PhBill@Cyberden.UUCP
From: djg0@aber.ac.uk (Dean John Garraghty)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
Subject: Re: 1050
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:31:33 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth


Yes, the 810 also has the same problem regarding not stopping spinning. In
fact, I repared an 810 with this problem and it was the FDC

Dean Garraghty.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
Subject: Re: Bootstrapping for the 8bit
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 09:31:38 GMT
Organization: The Z*NET International News Gateway in New Zealand

yabi@ellis.uchicago.edu (Scott Thomas Yabiku) writes:

> In article <1k4s9t$u2@agate.berkeley.edu> rmartin@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Richard 
> 
> >I tried using the util.exe to format atari drives on an IBM PC, but 
> >it formats them in double density. Also it gives me an error:
> >"Error formatting track 0." Can I get DOS 2.5 to recognize a 
> >double density disk? Is there a way to un-diskcomm the DOSes that 
> >are on the atari.archive so I could boot from one of these PC created
> >double density disks? 
> 
> Hmm... let me canvass my memory for this...
> Atari DOS 2.0 (and maybe even 1.0) has almost all the abilities to read
> standard double density disks.  Atari had this in mind, as they did
> create an 815 (?) double density drive in the late 70s/early 80s (never
> released, though).
 
 This is from memory (a long time ago) the locations for the FDC are
 at Hex 300 301 302 303 304 (see mapping the atari for more details).
 
 There was a nifty utility allowed you set all the parameters ie
 tracks sides sectors that you could format your disk with.
 However a bit of hand hexcoding could do it easily except I forget
 all the locations.
 
 00 06 00 07 06 07 0a 01 00 03 0a 02 01 03 0a 0(forget the format byte)
 02 03 and this is it if my memory of 7 years ago is correct.
 
 Happy formating ..
> Now, in the IO control areas for DOS, there's an address that contains
> the density byte (0 or 1).  It's quite simple.  From BASIC, just do a
> POKE xxxx,1 and _voila_, the DOS will now be able to read/write double
> density disks for the particular drive numer (the information for all the


 Jon Clarke                                                     Z*NET Pacific
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  jonc@status.gen.nz           GEnie: J.Clarke6        Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD
  Phone: (+649) 358-5589       IFNA : 3/772:105        GEM    : NZM CABLES
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988
From: phbill@cyberden.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
Subject: Re: Test!!!
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 20:38:55 PST
Reply-To: phbill@cyberden.sf.ca.us
Organization: Indescribable Creations

Congradulations, Itay... it worked.  (Whatever it was!?)

Welcome back

           \
  /\  /    /\  / /  /
 /\/ /\  \/\/ / /  /    PhBill@Cyberden.SF.CA.US, or
/     /   \/ /  \  \    PhBill@Cyberden.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: yabi@ellis.uchicago.edu (Scott Thomas Yabiku)
Subject: Re: Happy Cursor
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:32:39 GMT

In article <19HyXB8w165w@cyberden.sf.ca.us> phbill@cyberden.sf.ca.us writes:

>My God good man!  I have you (somebody's?) HappyCursor program!  The 
>screen goes black with white or grey text, and the cursor becomes a 
>blinking, multicolored happy face.  I love that!  It was one of the 
>couple of files I was testing out MyNI_DOSes batch jobbing with!  Turn on 
>the computer, boot up MyDOS, have MyNI_DOS load up, and bam, up comes 
>HappyCur! 

Wow!  I never knew that my program was floating around out there.  I did
upload it to the Atari BBS in California, but that was all.
To think that all these years, a few people have been getting some use
out of it, makes me feel (sniff) so happy.

-scott
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
No disclaimer.  I represent the beliefs and opinions of the entire
University of Chicago community.  Have a nice day!  :)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: ab588@yfn.ysu.edu (joseph sabatino)
Subject: Re: DOS comparison
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:53:34 GMT


No wonder you wrote "and SpartaDOS isn't the best for me." if you're
still using Sparta 3.2c....try a version with the bugs fixed and 
Sparta X cart.
-- 
Joe Sabatino-->ab588@yfn.ysu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: hill@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Hill)
Subject: Re: C vs Action!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:31:59 GMT

In article <cciyXB9w165w@cyberden.sf.ca.us> phbill@cyberden.sf.ca.us writes:
>God, Action! is such a cool language! :)  I've been comparing C (which 
>I'll soon be independantly studying on IBMs at school) with it, and it's 
>such a nicer, cleaner, easier to read language.
>
>Well, at least the way I program.  I've seen some Action! programs that 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>waste a lot of space with indents and the such, but compared to C, it's 
>far easier reading.  (In C, for example, you'd say "If(h<1)h=1;"  and in 
>Action!, you'd say "If H<1 Then H=1 Fi", or (if you redefined "Fi" to 
>something even more readable), it would look like this: "If H<1 Then H=1 
>EndIf"...  Also, with C, if you have a "long If", that is, one that does 
>more than one command, you need those damned braces...  sort of like 
>this:
>
>If(H<1)
>{
>        H=1
>        O=O+1
>}
>
>and..

Feh.  The underlined phrase may say it all.  For my part, I've no patience
with people who say, "I don't like C because it MAKES you do such & such."
Baloney.  Try:

#define then {
#define endif }

main () {
	.
	.
	.
  if (h < 1) then h = 1
  endif
	.
	.
	.
}

For your second gripe, try:

  if (h < 1) h = 1, o = o + 1;

Granted, that won't work for all complex if's, but it works for small
stuff like the above example.

>I dunno..       just call me a BASIC lover, but I just happen to think 
>Action! is a far easier language.

That's okay... like you say below, it's "because I don't know C yet".
I believe C is a very elegant language.  Sure, an idiot can still write
crap code in it; but that's a reflection on the programmer, not on the
language.

>>No< idea on how to use it... but that's just because I don't know C.. 
>yet)
>
>:)

:^)  Don't take this as a flame; take it as a learning experience!  :^)

			--Michael

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Hill   <><  Isaiah 9:6 | "Let's not pretend to justify
hill@spot.Colorado.EDU         |  Rather amend where treasures lie
                               |  Straight through the heart peace can be found
University of Colorado@Boulder |  That's where you start, not all around"
$ mv net.flames /dev/null      |                    -- Extreme, "Rest in Peace"
-------------------------My boss is a Jewish carpenter!------------------------
Did you ever notice that everybody in favor of abortion has already been born?!
From: Steve Swanson <SMSwanson@ehssun.lbl.gov>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
Subject: Atari to Mac data transfer
Date: 27 Jan 1993 20:04:47 GMT
Organization: LBL
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.243.210.25
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
X-XXMessage-ID: <A78C2AB0C903D219@b75b-ehs8.lbl.gov>
X-XXDate: Wed, 27 Jan 93 12:04:00 GMT

Does anyone have experience transfering files between an Atari 8-bit and
a Macintosh?  I connect my Atari to a RS-232 modem through an 850
interface, and also use a RS-232 interface on my Mac.   I thought it
would be as simple as a RS-232 to RS-232 null-modem, but someone told me
null-modems have to be individually configured for the computers involved.
Anyone have experience in this area?
From: jerry@cs.mcgill.ca (Jerry Kuch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
Subject: Re: For sale.
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:06:35 GMT
Organization: SOCS - McGill University, Montreal, Canada

In article <1993Jan18.234742.28447@wixer.cactus.org> jher@wixer.cactus.org (Jher) writes:
>	I have an old atari 800 with omniron board for sale.  It has no drives
>cartridges or anything else.  Anyone interested?  Im open to offers.
>I also have an atari 2600 with keypads, paddles and some cartridges for sale.
>The cartridges are as follows.

Is this an original brown cased Atari 800 in working condition?  CTIA or
GTIA chip?  If you mail bennetta@fraser.sfu.ca you may well have a buyer.
He collects old 8 bit machines and might be interested in working out a 
price on this unit with you.

-- 
 Jerry Kuch (jerry@cs.mcgill.ca) | Don't whizz on the electric fence.
 "I was wrong to play God.  Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
  Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet."
                  --- M. Burns  "Treehouse of Horror II"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
Subject: Working copy of diskcomm please.
From: svhowardm@npe.isnet.inmos.co.uk
Date: 28 Jan 93 12:54:39 GMT
Organization: Inmos Limited
Nntp-Posting-User: svhowardm

Hello world,

I'm having trouble getting anything from the archive at the moment,
this is definately a problem at my end - but -

Can somebody please send me a working copy of DISKCOMM as the one I
had from the archive - before I stopped being able do get anything  - 
was faulty.

Please, please, please........

Thanks,
Mark.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
Subject: Re: Hooking IBM-PC 360K Disk Drive to a 800xl ?
From: Jeff McWilliams <JJMCWILL@MTUS5.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 21 Jan 1993 14:30:07 EST
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.

In article <2516@itexjct.jct.ac.il>, jacobsen@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Joel Jacobsen)
says:
>
>Can I, somehow, connect a 360k Disk Drive to the atari? Is the XF551 the
>same drive as a XT's drive?
>
>      Joel
>

Yes, the XF551 uses standard XT type 360K mechanisms.

Jeff McWilliams
From: A644690C@vax.edinboro.edu (Adam J. Conover)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
Subject: Buracracy.
Date: 28 Jan 1993 20:21:06 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

> Are you sure?  I used to get the 'New Zork Times' which listed which games
> were available for which machines, but I do not remember ever seeing
> Bureaucracy for the 8bit.  I wanted it, but it wasn't available.  I also
> wanted the funny one " Burt and Norb ..." (or whatever their names were).
> It made me mad that it was available for the C64 but not the Atari 8bit.
> 
> Kit Kimes

I have never actually seen it my self, but when I first heard about it, it
was from a review.  The reviewer claimed to be reviewing the Atari 8-bit 
version.  I don't remember to magazine but I do distinctly remember the
Atari 8bit being mentioned several times.

The reviewed game may have just been a 'review copy' of a version never
released.......  (par for the course, I guess).

-Adam Conover.
	a644690c@edinboro.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: csg022@cch.coventry.ac.uk (PROC)
Subject: Re: KnifeST
Organization: Coventry University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:53:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan15.165323.21281@irscscm.UUCP> mlake@irscscm.UUCP (Marshall Lake) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.102305.8282@Cadence.COM> keiths@Cadence.COM (Keith Sabine) writes:

>>About three years ago when Prospero 'C' came out it seemed like the
>>answer to my problems - a decent 'C' compiler with source level
>>debugging for the Atari! But alas it was not to be, it had several
>>nasty bugs. I wrote to them a couple of times, even sent examples
>>of the bugs but nothing. So I threw that compiler away... The moral
>>seems to be unless you're a big customer you're on your own. If anyone's
>>found something to the contrary, I'd love to hear it! :-)

I've been using Prospero C for ages now. I had to
do a binary fix on the library files to get the linker
to work properly but it does everything it should do now.
(The Harlekin disk monitor is very handy.)
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| csg022 is M B Procter | Sincerity, if you can fake that you've got it made. |
| Coventry Uni. England |   Whoever said that was thinking of Anne Diamond    |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: tbrown@cis.ohio-state.edu (ted croft brown)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon's sighted in USA
Date: 21 Jan 1993 19:07:34 -0500
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu

In article <1993Jan20.012029.18482@wam.umd.edu> cmedley@wam.umd.edu (Flip) writes:
>
>Toad Computers in Severna Park, MD, has four Falcons but I didn't get to see
>the actual CPUs.  The boxes were sitting right out in front of their sales
>desk and one box contained two "engineer's samples" and the other box had no
>distinctive markings to differentiate it from a production model....
>

I would be more heartened by this if the same thing hadn't happened at 
WAACE.  Atari, for some strange reason, had some Falcons which were
distributed to some developers and taken elsewhere by Reebok sent and
stored at Toad for the week before WAACE.  Toad had the Falcon030 boxes
in plain sight all through WACCE but they weren't TOAD's and they weren't 
for sale.  In fact I heard the Toad guy uh...the best term is "whining" to
Bill Reebok that they ought to be able to keep one of them.  Since some of
them were marked samples, this might just be the same sort of thing.

Did you ask if they were for sale? 













-- 
Ted Brown		tbrown@cis.ohio-state.edu
			tbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
From: elendir@inf.enst.fr
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: 030 sync cycles (was : A1200 versus Falcon 030 once again)
Keywords: STERM
Date: 22 Jan 93 09:47:48 GMT

Joern Moe writes
] In the falcon they use sync 
] mode on a 16 bit bus. This gives a 4 clock cycle for each longword
] access to the bus. This implies a 25% reduction in performance, not 50%.

 That is wrong. Synchrone cycles on the 68030 (i.e. those terminated by STERM  
rather than DSACK) must be 32-bit wide. Refer to the 030 User s Manual. There  
is no other way than DSACK to end a 16-bit wide exchange.

Vincent.

--

 In memoria di mori di Furiani.
From: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Upgrading an ST-520
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 00:12:25 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <73888@cup.portal.com>
  <C143u2.zt@news2.cis.umn.edu>,<73970@cup.portal.com>
  <C15tzJ.FHz@news2.cis.umn.edu>

davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu writes:
>In article <73970@cup.portal.com>, Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
>>According to EVERY Atari representative I've ever talked to, the Atari TT
>>is the FIRST Atari Computer product that is "user upgradable".

>You're original posting stated that NO Atari computer was considered "user
>upgradable" by Atari corporation.  The quote above shows that you are
>DELIBERATELY spreading false information.

>Are you man enough to admit you made a mistake in your generalization, or ar
>you going to whine again?

Ah.. a "mistake in generalization" is DELIBERATELY spreading
false information, eh..?
 
If I said "NO Atari computer..." then I was mistaken, and should
said "NO ST..."

(If you reallllly wanted to catch me out, you could have
mentioned that the original Atari 800 was indeed user upgradable
with 16K memory cards... too bad.. you missed your chance..)
 
Tell you what though.. .Portal archives message threads, so I'll
go back and see if I can find the original posting..
 
Funny though.. all the semantic games in the world won't change
the fact that Atari Corp themselves say that the TT is the first
Atari computer to be user-upgradable...

BobR
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
Subject: Re: Canadian support was: Re: RFD: What to do
Reply-To: davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
Organization: Health Computer Sciences, U of MN, Mpls
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:26:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.153810.20698@newshost.lanl.gov>, hutch@bellman.lanl.gov (John Hutchinson) writes:
>Yo Peter!  You think I could enroll in "Joe's Bartender University" so I could
>qualify for one of those $1300 IIci's?  :)  Seriously, are student discounts
>really _this_ good?  What confiuguration is such a machine?  No hard drive, no
>keyboard and minimal RAM?

I'm unsure where Peter goes to school, but at the University of Minnesota, the
cheapest IIci system for sale costs $2075, display not included.  I believe
that a IIsi with 40 meg hard drive and no display is about $1300 (it's listed
as $1440 in the handout I'm holding, but I know that IIsi prices dropped about
$150 at the University this past week).

You are, of course, constrained by several 'agreements' that a University makes
with Apple Computer.  I can quote from the 11/13/92 handout of the Computer and
Information Services with regard to Apple Macintosh Computers:

"A further restriction is that individuals ... may  purchase one desktop or
portable computer system in a one-year period.  They may also purchase one
Apple printer in a one-year period. ...

... The agreement also states that they must not resell the components for a
two year period and that violation of the agreement constitutes misuse and is
grounds for appropriate disciplinary action by the University."

Apple computers only have a 1 year warranty at present.  It has been my
experience that Apple computer systems generally fail in the second year of the
warranty period. :-)

I wouldn't sign up with "Joe's Bartender University" just yet, John, unless you
WANT to become a bartender.. ;-)  The additional cost of tuition is going to
eat up any savings you might obtain in purchasing an Apple Macintosh!

-- David Paschall-Zimbel
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: stigvi@Lise.Unit.NO (Stig Vidar Hovland)
Subject: Re: 030 sync cycles (was : A1200 versus Falcon 030 once again)
Keywords: STERM
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 13:57:25 GMT

In article <1982@enst.enst.fr>, elendir@inf.enst.fr writes:
 > Joern Moe writes
 > ] In the falcon they use sync 
 > ] mode on a 16 bit bus. This gives a 4 clock cycle for each longword
 > ] access to the bus. This implies a 25% reduction in performance, not 50%.
 > 
 >  That is wrong. Synchrone cycles on the 68030 (i.e. those terminated by STERM  
 > rather than DSACK) must be 32-bit wide. Refer to the 030 User s Manual. There  
 > is no other way than DSACK to end a 16-bit wide exchange.
 > 
Mr. Joern Moe has probably circuit diagrams for the Falcon and in that case
he should know what he is talking aboat. With additional hardware, it is possible
to terminate an access to 16 bit memory with STERM.

Stig Vidar Hovland - stigvi@lise.unit.no
From: mattias@tse.uucp (Mattias Hembruch x0830)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: IBM CORPORATE LOSS
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:50:00 GMT
Organization: Toronto Stock Exchange

In article <1993Jan25.092554.26383@cs.hw.ac.uk> neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes:
>In article <C15nCD.F4@newcastle.ac.uk> Craig.Graham@newcastle.ac.uk
>(Craig Graham) writes:
>>I was most amused to hear on the Evening News (on the Radio), that IBM has just
>>made the biggest corporate loss EVER in the history of corporate losses......
>
>(With apologies to those who read this group for informative articles)
>
>A friend of mine was told these 'facts' at his employee induction course with
>a clone manufacturer.
>
>	"IBM has so many employees worldwide that if they were all in one
>	place and that place was called a country then it would be the fifth
>	largest country in the world."

Hmm... Last time I worked for IBM (August 1992), after the big job cuts then,
worldwide labor force was around 360 000... Before the cuts, it MAY have
been as high as 400 000 once upon a time... Now, if you take the world's
population as 5 000 000 000, then IBM is less than 1/12 500 of the world's 
population.. Now, Canada is nowhere near the top 10 in population, and we have
30 million people.. 
>
>	"IBM has so much money in the bank that the interest alone can pay
>	those peoples wages such that they could stop making computers
>	tomorrow and still keep everyone in a job if they had a mind to."
>
This, I do not doubt.. Sure IBM had a big loss, but keep in mind that they
wrote off 7.5 BILLION for pensions which other corporations will have to
do later (new US law which they don't HAVE to comply with until 1994, I think)
IBM figured that this year was probably a write-off anyway (due to the 
recession) and thus they might as well REALLY kill this year, and take it to
the competition next year (btw, this is just a GUESS as to why they did it now
 - I am no longer affiliated with IBM).

>I dunno how true these statements are but even if there is some truth in them
>then I doubt that the financial loss will hurt them much.
>
>+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
>! Neil Forsyth                                                               !
>! Department of Computing and Electrical Engineering                         !
>! Heriot-Watt University                                                     !
>! Edinburgh, Scotland                                                        !
>! United Kingdom            Email: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs, ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil !
>! "'Have you got any?' he asked, expecting the answer no" - Monty Python     !
>+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


Mattias
-- 
Mattias Hembruch
>> My views do not necessarily reflect those of the TSE. <<
E-mail: mattias@tse.asd.tse.ca