HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jjas@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu (Jason Stephenson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Guns & self defense
Date: 22 Nov 92 17:33:50 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boston University Information Technology Boston, MA USA
In-reply-to: pngai@adobe.com's message of 22 Nov 92 10:09:27 GMT

I will tell you why criminals commit crimes: why murderers murder and why
rpists rape> because it is perfectly natural for the human animal to do these
things.  For the 60,000 years that our species has existed we have raped and
killed as a matter of course, a matter of survival.  Now, in the last one 
thousand years some philosopher decides that killing is 'bad' and that we must
not kill any longer.  So, someone is going to tell me that 60,000 years of
biological programming is 'wrong?'  Humans are violent by nature.  You cannot
tell me that our ancestors who hunted animals with masses of over ten times 
that of a Homo sapiens were not ferocious.  Remember, all they had for a weapon
was a poiinty stick or broken rock.  We have changed little in these 60,000
years.  On the inside, in the deepest part of our brains, we are the same
animal.  What has changed are our external condidtions of living and our con-
scious level of thought.  But our desires, our needs, our instincts remain
esentially the same.  If you want a psychological explanation for rapes and 
crime and how our unnatural living conditions affect the human brain in an
adverse manner read Freud's _Civilisation and its Discontents_.  I will tell 
you this, humans are not, by nature, peaceful.  Sixty thousand years of non-
evolution prove that we remain ferocious predators.  You might also want to 
read Desmond Morris', _The Naked Ape_.

	Jason
From: brenda@wpi.WPI.EDU (brenda)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Date: 19 Nov 1992 17:14:57 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu


I have been doing research on Witchcraft for a while, in order to get 'the 
whole story' as it were...

i am reading a book called "The Cosmic Mother" by monica sjoo and margaret(?)  
mor... and it outlines the societies that were matriarchal, in a good light, 
and then those that are patriarchal, in a bad light.  my overall impressions 
are that a matriarchal society didnt work, and a patriarchal society isn't 
working either... 

my personal opinion is that an equal society is needed, as hard as that will 
be to accomplish....  

oops out of time! 
brenda


-- 
brenda@wpi.wpi.edu    "One of the witnesses MUST not be telling us      
box 1256, wpi          everything..."
worcester, ma                  ~an astonished Paul Drake, to Perry Mason

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Who are we kidding?
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:26:12 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <92324.12555234AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> <34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> writes:
>In article <2B0A8245.16232@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis
>Maria Cortese) says:
>>
>[incredible deluge of drivel deleted]
>>
>>something else have a shot at it.  Right now, all I want to do is find
>>some quiet little island or something to live on so I can avoid as much
>>of the splat as I can when the shit finally hits the fan.
>>
>>Janis
>
>An excellent idea in this instance. Preferably one without net access.

Dear Rude, ignorant, and thoughtless asshole: 
   I think most of us here would rather *you* go away. This is *certainly*
no contribution to discussion. I note you're too cowardly to even give
yourself a name.

   Gee, folks, these guys remind me of the Republican jerk (can't remember
his name) who showed up on U.T. campus last spring, to give a speech about
how pollution isn't dangerous, etc.

	mark
From: gnome@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Gary)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: That GUN flame --
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:09:52 GMT
Distribution: na

From article <1992Nov20.182924.2845@radian.uucp>, by markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr):
> In article <57027@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> gnome@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Gary) writes:
>>And Pat Robertson was running for president...
>>Gary

> I see, and if he had won, would he have been against gun control?

What, exactly do you see?
Whether he's for gun control or not belongs in another newsgroup.
He is, however, of the school of thought that many of the people
who subscribe to this newsgroup are automatically criminals because
they break the laws of his religion.
You figure it out...

> Or were
> you implying that if he had won, you would have gone against the popular
> vote and assasinated him (you being a better shot than us left-wingers 
> (y'all must be - liberals get killed, conservatives only get wounded, if
> that))?
> 	mark

You have such an excellent imagination!  No, that's not what I was
implying.  It's interesting that that's the conclusion you jumped-to
though.
So, liking to throw lables around, what would you lable yourself??

Gary
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: rats
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:51:26 GMT

Just a perhaps-interesting related tidbit I read once:

Pet rats are particularly prone to cancer because so many of them are related
to research strains that are *bred* to get cancer easily. So, it's not you nor
is it coincidence that so many of your pets have succumbed to cancer.

Too bad, really. :-( However, maybe you can feel happy that you gave these
animals a happier life than they would have had in the short life we provided
them with in the labs we destined them for.

Marty


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Seems like there ought to be a way we could look each other in the eye
To see we're all in this together, and put all thoughts of victory aside.
Seems like there ought to be a way we could turn this fear into trust;
No matter what you say, there has to be a way --
Every living thing is counting on us."      

Marty Hale-Evans                                 M   @   *   O   %   8   U
89 Mass. Ave., Ste. 199, Boston, MA 02115       \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Mikey
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:39:09 GMT
Reply-To: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University

In article <1992Nov16.202843.22410@u.washington.edu>, mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner) writes:
>
>I wanted to share a heartwarming experience from the Community Full Moon
>celebration last night.
>
>The ritual was quite late in getting started, and I was sitting on the
>floor listening to people chat when a little boy, maybe 5 years old, ran
>over to me and sat down on my lap.  "What's your name?" he said and put
>his arms around me.
>
>I was quite startled; I told him my name, and asked him his.  "Mikey!"
>he said with a big grin, and ran off to hug someone else.  As it turned
>out, the ritual was about 45 minutes late, and during that time
>practically everyone in the room got to play with Mikey.  It turned out
>he liked to play tag, and to be swung or spun around in the air.  He'd
>come up between two people who were talking and take their hands, and
>expect them to swing him up in the air.  After about the fourth time,
>when my arms were beginning to get tired, I told him he was a pig.
   etc,...
    I think that's truly wonderful...I'm so damn sick and tired of idiots
claiming that being a Pagan and practicing Pagan beliefs before your children
will warp them and cause irreparable damage.  I think this kid is a lot better
balanced mentally than a lot of the "traditionally " raised kids.  Spare the
rod and spoil the child, my ass!  I hope when I have children, they are as
sweet and wonderful as Mikey...
     ....which brings me to my question:  I'd like a child someday, and I've
been wondering how best to introduce my being a Pagan.  You know...how to
explain, deal with questions and criticism from other parents, playmates,
teachers, etc.  Please, folk; give me your advice and wisdom--a friend of mine
is Wiccan and pregnant, and she's wondering the same thing, as we both live 
in Montana.  Montana is a very scary state to me.  Never have it been so
necessary for me to hide what I am, and she is one of three pagans I've met
in this state. 
    
                                Thanx, and may you all be blesses with rasp-
                                berry cheesecake with chocolate-bailey's
                                topping!(write me for the recipe!)

                                La Mort.


>
>Once in a while he'd become frightened or dizzy from being swung, and
>run back to cuddle with his mother (one of the Elders of the community)
>for a few minutes.
>
>When we practiced square dancing he was right in there dancing with
>us--underfoot, and rather a hazard, but obviously enjoying every moment
>of it.  He also sat through the ritual very nicely, carrying his
>cup of cider with obvious care, and helped pick up the used cups
>afterwards.
>
>I've never met such a wonderful child, and I have to say--if the
>pagan community can raise children like Mikey, and treat them so
>well they retain that trust and love, there's hope for us yet.
>
>Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: banerjee@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Arindam Banerjee)
Subject: Re: Pagan Belief revisited
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:22:22 GMT

From article <1992Nov12.174704.1488@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, by kcater@nyx.cs.du.edu (Kenneth Cater):
> 
> I wish to express my extreme intrest in the field Dianic (?) Wiccans. 
> First of all I DO NOT practice with a coven therefore I have developed my
> own ideas on what Wiccia means to me (first let me state that all wiccans
> are witches BUT not all Witches are Wiccan)...for what I have seen of
> Wicca and some of its followers...there are people in the craft that are
> magickly unaware, it is truely sad that some groups of wicca are trying
> the reverse of Christianity by only looking at the Godess side.  It is
> from my personal experence that the Divinity is NOT God and/or Godess it
> is without form and without limit...To give it a gender is to limit your
> experence with IT, however it is had for somepeople to feel close to i8t,
> therefore we consider it God/ess that is that IT is BOTH not one and not
> the other, but Both.  To ignore one is to limit the power from which you
> draw from Godess is to God as Construction is to Destruction (note that
> Destruction is a nessesary part of the universe, and is not Evil for those
> of you who see evil as a force) without one the other has little if any
> meaning....This is my personal opinion and please pardon grammer/spelling
> errors....
> 
> Bless Be......
 
It may interest you that in Hinduism we have the concept of
ArdhaNarEshwara, which means that the Supreme is represented by half-man
and half-woman. Theer are ancient sculptures showing this divine figure
- in those sculptures the partitioning is done along the vertical axis,
as  i dimly recollect the left side is female and the right is male.
Hermaphrodites obtain a special relationship in certain parts of India
as a consequence.

But this is only the approximation. In the highest Vedantic monism, the
Supreme, is all-encompassing, without attributes, though all attributes
flow from It. Thus the Divine, referred to as Aum, is Nirguna (without
qualities).

About 25 centuries ago, people started asking what was the point of
worshipping the Divine if it had no qualities. This led to the
establishment of materialistic philosophies such as Charvaka which
ridiculed the Vedas and Vedantas and Brahmans in particular, and also
atheistic religions such as Jainism and Buddhism.

The wheel of time turns..... old fashions become new.... if somone tried
to preserve them in the first place......

Arindam Banerjee
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Welsh-l list launched
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:02:19 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England


Info on a new list for speakers and learners of Welsh, Breton and Cornish:

*
*  Owner=  BRIONY@CSTR.EDINBURGH.AC.UK     Briony Williams
*  Owner=  EVERSON@IRLEARN                 Michael Everson
*
* ----------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*                        WELSH-L
*                        -------
*  The WELSH-L bulletin board aims to foster the amicable discussion of
*  questions of the Welsh language, Welsh culture, history, and politics,
*  and to offer a forum for speakers and learners of the Welsh language.
*  Both Welsh and English may be used.
*
*  Users are encouraged to exchange their opinions in Welsh, if they can, and
*  special consideration may be given to Welsh learners expressing themselves
*  in Welsh.
*
*  The emphasis will be on Welsh as a living language, and Welsh culture as
*  actually lived out in Wales at the present day.  Discussions of Celtic myth
*  in general, the relationship between Celtic paganism and Anglo-Saxon Wicca,
*  etc. will probably find a more ready audience on the CELTIC-L bulletin board
*  at IRLEARN.UCD.IE.
*
*  If there is an interest in expanding the range of topics to include
*  discussion in and about the language and culture of Welsh's close sister
*  languages, Breton and Cornish, WELSH-L will be able to serve as a forum
*  for that as well.
*  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
*

To subscribe, send a mail message to LISTSERV@IRLEARN.UCD.IE containing the one
line:
SUBSCRIBE WELSH-L <you name>
e.g. SUBSCRIBE WELSH-L Dafydd Evans

or contact one of the two list owners listed above

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
From: feathers@eskimo.com (Cheryl Owen)
Subject: Re: raising children
Summary: What about B.C.?
Organization: <<< ESKIMO NORTH (206)-FOR-EVER >>>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:07:58 GMT

   Points taken, but then how do you account for the homophobia present
in many societies before Christianity?  Christians hardly invented
homophobia.  They're merely one of the more effective purveyors of it
today.
From: lazarus@magna.ksu.ksu.edu (Bart -Laz- Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Date: 17 Nov 1992 01:21:40 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: magna.ksu.ksu.edu


In article <1992Nov14.003413.8356@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
>ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
>>	Now I own a handgun. I look down at the piece of cold metal and 
>>rubber resting uncomfortably in my hand and I feel sick. This thing was 
>>made for the express purpose of killing human beings. I don't like it. I 
>
>	It's all in your head.  Your grandpa's hunting rifles are
>even more deadly.

Yeah, but at least MY granddad's hunting rifle was made for the hunting of
animals, not humans.

>JD	

--
Bart -Laz- Smith
Kansas State University
'Cats - Hell, I can't remember the score.  They just lost to Mizzou.  *sigh*
"I've got the motive which is money, and I've got the body which is DEAD."
	-- In the Heat of the Night
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: michael@marcel.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Theocracy In America?
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:23:16 GMT
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: delisle@eskimo.celestial.com's message of 12 Nov 92 22:49:55 GMT

In response to this article I can only add:

Has anyone read Robert A. Heinlein's
"If This Goes On... "

You don't have to respond, but I encourage you to take a look
if you'ven't read it.

Chaplin
--
=========================================================================
Michael A. Chaplin           If you want *their* opinions, ask *them*.
michael@albert.bu.edu ....The Einstein Papers Project, Boston, Mass., USA
chaplin@husc.harvard.edu ....Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass., USA
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,alt.out-of-body
From: jdh@math.psu.edu (Jeremy D Hall)
Subject: Re: Part 2 of last posting
Organization: Penn State Department of Mathematics
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 03:01:17 GMT

In article <92320.195021SWK105@psuvm.psu.edu> Stephen Kuhn <SWK105@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Sorry about the vagueity of the last posting.  This is the proper one.  Rob
>and I apologize for our inappropriate outburst.  This subject can be
>frustrating to talk about.

And I'll apologize for mine.  But in future, please be more careful, and I'll
try to do the same.

>
>We would like to know about anyone out there who truly believes in any
>mystic abilities / psychic phenomena / unexplained occurances , etc.  We are
>interested in correspondance rather than net-posting.  We are able to be
>reached through this account, on the Astral Plane, the Spiritual Plane, or
>in person.  We have open minds and "we're ready to believe you!" Try either
>of us at the following addresses:
>
>Stephen Kuhn                Robert Trayers
>Box 1421 Behrend College    Box 1489 Behrend College
>Erie, PA 16563              Erie, PA 16563
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------M
>
>May The Astral Plane NEVER sever your silver cord!  - Stephen
>
>If you see a fiery elf with a glowing white sword, bugger off! - Rob

Love is the Law, Love under Will - not my quote, but often seen here

Jeremy Hall
Penn State Univ.
From: kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Scummy behavior of pagan males
Date: 22 Nov 92 10:28:49 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <y2uLuB1w165w@hogbbs.scol.pa.us>, wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman) writes:

> Hey, Steve, let me suggest a bit of memetic editing here, for you to use 
> later on, when you're done poking folks with your 'men are scum' 
> examinging tool....
> 
> How about, " I would like to create some pagan safe space where 'scummy' 
> and abusive behavior will be confronted, and healed if possible, but not 
> tolerated..."?? Nah, doesn't have the snappiness of 'men are scum', eh? 
> Well, I'm sure some verbal expert will come up with a cool way of 
> expressing the concept... ;-)

I like it Bill.  When I am done poking folks, I may just move to that.

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________

Stephen R. Figgins           |  There was an old woman
kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu   |  Who lived under the hill 
PO Box 1244                  |  And if she's not gone 
Lawrence, KS 66044	     |  She lives there still
___________________________________________________________________________
 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: WEITEK Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 19:42:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.000049.19227@radian.uucp> markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>In article <7793@monmouth.edu> c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov11.083707.29169@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>>>altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
><deleted>>
>>	At least in the Texas incident, the death toll would have been MUCH
>>lower if there had been ONE armed, trained and responsible citizen in there.

>I see. You want *everyone* packing a pistol. 

>Sorry, but *I* would suspect that if other people were carrying, you'd have
>wound up with *many* more victims, from the gunfight. If, on the other hand,
>a number of the people had said, "he's gonna kill me, I might as well die 
>stopping him", instead of just one person, he could have been stopped a lot 
>sooner. There are certainly plenty of people who would, even if packing,
>have been afraid to reach for the gun, or use it, anyway.

I doubt it. Most people aren't going to walk up on an armed person unarmed
since the odds of their dying without stopping the assailant are minimal.

>We don't need more guns, we need people willing to *do* something. I could
>have sworn people *admired* Wyatt Earp when he instituted the "Dodge City
>Rule". I thought they were under the impression it meant civilization had
>come.

Many people didn't like the Dodge City rule. Wyatt and his brothers were 
continuing to fight the Civil War in Dodge City. The rule was designed
to make the Texans more vulnerable. Much of the lawlessness in Dodge was
related to the fact that people seemed a tad unwilling to accept that the
Civil War had ended. It is an old joke that people born after 1920 were the
first generation to have not lived through the Civil War.

BTW, Wyatt Earp is buried in a Jewish cemetery in Colma.

 

-- 
The Earth Pig Bourne....

nadja@node.com (prefered email address)
nadja@weitek.com
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: That GUN flame -- captions for the brain dead and humor-impaired
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:40:21 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <57042@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> gnome@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Gary) writes:
>From article <1992Nov20.182924.2845@radian.uucp>, by markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr):
>> In article <57027@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> gnome@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Gary) writes:
>>>And Pat Robertson was running for president...
>>>Gary
>
>> I see, and if he had won, would he have been against gun control?
>
>What, exactly do you see?
>Whether he's for gun control or not belongs in another newsgroup.
>He is, however, of the school of thought that many of the people
>who subscribe to this newsgroup are automatically criminals because
>they break the laws of his religion.
>You figure it out...

"I see" - often used as a figure of speech.
Why in another newsgroup? *YOU* dragged it into this one. 
Perhaps *you* should figure out that if extreme funnymentalist reactionaries
want some (please note, not all, this is a qualification) gun control, and
liberals and *some* leftists want some (note the adjective) gun control,
perhaps there might be a groundswell of popular support for something other
than "anyone can have any weapon they want, and be able to carry it at any
time".
>
>> Or were
>> you implying that if he had won, you would have gone against the popular
>> vote and assasinated him (you being a better shot than us left-wingers 
>> (y'all must be - liberals get killed, conservatives only get wounded, if
>> that))?
>> 	mark
>
>You have such an excellent imagination!  No, that's not what I was
>implying.  It's interesting that that's the conclusion you jumped-to
>though.

This is what is know as satire. In it I use the same kind of exaggeration 
that you lot seem to be prone to. Consider carefully whether you have
done the same thing, but *not* as satire.

>So, liking to throw lables around, what would you lable yourself??

What brought up labels?

	mark, who will explain if necessary

Newsgroups: alt.pagan