HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: saga@wship.nullnet.fi (Satu Hovi)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Knitting 
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 22:53:11 EEZ
Distribution: world
Organization: Wiking Ship, Seven Seas

bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard) writes:

> Good my lady, may I recommend to you Irena Turnau's article "Diffusion of 
> Knitting in Medieval Europe" to be found in _Cloth and Clothing in Medieval 
> Europe:  Essays in Memory of Professor F. M. Carus-Wilson._  Studies in 
> Textile History 2.  N. B. Harte and K. G. Ponting, eds.  London:  Heinemann, 
> 1983, pp. 368-389. 
> 
> This article discusses knitting throughout our period, including mention of 
> such artifacts as "[t]he knitted leggings of Bishop Konrad von Sternberg (who
> was buried in Worms in 1192)"  (Turnau, p. 380).  There is also reference to 
> knitted liturgical gloves from before the turn of the millenium. 


This same book also tells gloves were not made by knitting, they were sewn
by needle. Needle knitting- or sewing, as we should call it- was common
way to make stretch garments in the early Middle-Ages. also the poor
people continued to sew by needle after the richer ones bought machine
knitted garments after inviting the knitting machine. Even in nowadays
old ladys sew mittens in Finlands countryside.
Needle sewing was usually used in mittens and gloves also after the
coming of knitting machine. During the Middle-Ages knitting was not
common at all, needle sewing was more done all the time. 
Needle sewing is done sewing the yarn fast on certain ways 
- I know seven different ways to do it. Mittens made by this technique
are the warmest possible ones I know. The Vikings used them already.
They are quick to made, but very difficult to learn.

--
 saga@wship.nullnet.fi (Satu Hovi) onboard at Wiking Ship 
24H at (90) 442-145 (DIANA 91020-442-145) ZyXEL v.32bis and v.42/v.42bis
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bchapman@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Bruce Patrick Chapman)
Subject: Personna & Race
Followup-To: 9005904@sscvax.cis.mcmaster.ca 
Organization: chaos limited
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:51:53 GMT

greetings unto the rialto.

	as one of the proverbial minorities in the sca, i find that the
most glaring (and amusing) assumption on the part of the majority of   
scadians is that i _must_ know a great deal about the culture/language/etc
of my racial heritage (japanese)...as so happens, it is an area that i
have studied...(and admittedly do have some advantage as nisei <grin>)

 	does anyone else find that they meet with similar assumptions, 
be they based on accent/ancestry/awards (ever run into the peer "x" is right
about everything syndrome? <grin>)

cheers!
c.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: On Fealty
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 22:10:35

    Aryk wrote:

 AN> Joe Bethancourt's essay on fealty brought a question to mind:

 AN> In the early part of your essay, you described historical vassals swearing
 AN> fealty to the Crown.

 AN> Is that indeed the case, or was the oath of fealty to a king generally
 AN> considered to be to the king personally in his capacity as sovereign?

    Subjects owed a general duty (which we now term "allegiance", which is
    roughly correct) to the king as sovereign. Those holding lands (and,
    eventually, other dignities) in feudal tenure owed him fealty because
    he was their lord.

 AN> Where's Hossein, anyway?

    Probably enjoying a well-deserved holiday. Haj Hossein is in the process
    of preparing for publication a general survey of feudal tenure that
    will take into account all of the advances in relevant scholarship
    since the last such were published (approximately thirty years and more
    ago). I await its appearance with great expectations.

Tadhg, Obelisk

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sommerfeld@apollo.hp.com (Bill Sommerfeld)
Subject: Re: SCA Geography
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:05:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett Packard

In article <1h3dqnINN8hm@mirror.digex.com> dickeney@access.digex.com (Dick Eney) writes:

   As for in-period contacts with the Japanese, remember that the
   closing off of Japan and China was a reaction to the aggressive
   merchandising -- to put it gently -- of the Elizabethan and early
   Jacobean periods.  (Not just English, but these are the time-
   periods we're most likely to know offhand.)  

I've seen a reference to a Venetian "Mass of the Japansese Princes" in
around 1585 or so (in the liner notes to the CD "A Venetian Coronation
1595" by the Gabrieli Consort & Ensemble under the direction of Andrew
Parrott, briefly quoting what appeared to be a primary source;
warning: previous reference is from memory, the CD is at home).  I've
been meaning to dig into this a little bit more but haven't gotten
around to it just yet...  Anyone else heard of this?

					- Bill

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Phyllis_Gilmore@rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Primitive FireArms
Date: 30 Dec 92 01:44:27 GMT
Organization: RAND

In article <ARCHER.550.725658404@utkvm1.utk.edu>, ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
> 
Much deleted to save space
> 
> Why?  A firearm, in and of itself is not capable of harming anyone.  They 
> can't leap off of a shelf, load themselves, jump into the hands on some poor 
> victim, and then injure someone.  The moral culpability falls on the head of 
> the operator, not the object.  Having a firearm around is no more dangerous 
> than rat poison, automobiles, baseball bats, rattan swords, or swimming 
> pools.
> 
Dear me.  Is it not obvious that the entire purpose of any weapon is to harm
someone or something?  While I am sure that you, good sir, would only lift a 
weapon in defense of a fair lady, or your purse, or to dispatch an Asp or 
procure dinner, many others are not so well disposed.  And I have it on good
authority that early firearms (even 18th century ones, much less Real, 
Authentic Periods (TM) firearms) are, in and of themselves, not necessarily
safe even for those who use them.  They have, for example, and unfortuante
tendency to explode.

I was mightily impressed by a demonstration of assorted weaponry some years ago
at Castillo San Marcos, in St. Petersburg, FL.  (A fortress that, if my memory
serves, may in fact be Period).  Cannon and flintlock alike were not nearly
so gentle to the user as the modern shotguns I have used. I quickly decided
that I am Too Delicate a Lady for such recreations.

You do have a point about abiding by local law and customs.  Some of these,
however, are not written out.  I strongly suggest that you think twice about
carrying firearms in certain parts of Caid, for example.  There be 
highwaymen and warlords in these regions who would take greater exception 
even than the officers of the law.  And I do recall catching traces of a 
recent thread on the Rialto about thugs in parks and just how well one might 
actually be able to defend oneself.  I for one would be disinclined to create
an "attractive nuisance."

Philippa d'Ecosse
of Lyondemere in Caid
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: pavao@cae.wisc.edu (Pavao Aaron)
Subject: Re: Fighting in crown: a thought
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:58:59 CST

In article <1992Dec21.192500.19311@epas.toronto.edu> nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.104249.3694@doug.cae.wisc.edu> pavao@cae.wisc.edu (Pavao Aaron) writes:
>
>
>>I, myself, aspire to fight in Crown someday and if (on the off-chance) I win,
>>I have no desire to become king.
>
>So why do you aspire to fight in Crown?
>
>Aryk
>
	The Crowne Lists represents the epitome of fighting skill.  To be 
recommended to fight at Crown is a high honour, indeed.  It is a goal for which
to strive.

-> Shandler

SCA: Chandler (Shandler) Greyfeathre
MKA: Aaron Pavao
NET: pavao@cae.wisc.edu
"Rainy days and Mundanes always get me down."


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kate@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Kate Sanderson)
Subject: Perios Calendars
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 20:11:00 EST

Oops, that subject line should say "period".  Oh well.

Cosamo asks about period calendars.  A good place to look for saints days 
and such are prayerbooks or missals.  The Oxford Dictionary of Saints is 
good too, but you have to be careful because some of the saints in it are 
post period.

                                  Kasia
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: PAMCCOY@gallua.gallaudet.EDU ("Pat McCoy a.k.a. Bones")
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Fighting for Crown....A Question.
Date: 23 Dec 92 18:47:03 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Good day to all gentles unto the Rialto!

I have another question.

If one is physically unable to fight, does that mean
that the gentle could never become royalty?

Padraigin nic'Aodha
Barony of Storvik
Kingdom of Atlantia
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Period Calendar Wanted
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:21:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.172333.13978@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> awkerr@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Alan Kerr) writes:
>In article <1992Dec31.162934.22106@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>>Yup.  A sundial.  It was the development of mechanical clocks that
>>changed things--eventually--to an all-hours-are-equal system.
>>Remember that most of history is before mechanical clocks.
>
>...OK, I've seen the answer of 'sundial' a couple of times now.  But
>as far as I know of, it does *not* answer the question.  A sundial
>*will* self-adjust to the streaching and shrinking of *days*, but I
>don't think that I've ever seen one that would adjust the day into
>**12 equal hours**.   Does this type of sundial exist?

Gee--and I thought all days had a Sidereal Period of (modern) 23 hours,
56 minutes....    :-)

Think about how you read a sundial--and how you mark it to be read....

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non-fighting Royalty
Date: 31 Dec 92 09:11:46
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
	<1992Dec31.150110.15044@news.unomaha.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu's message of Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:01:10 GMT


dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu (Darryl Burgdorf) writes:
] Given that *no* method of "choosing" royalty is period ...

There is one period method of "choosing" royalty the SCA could use :

			Civil War.

This could be great fun. Monarch wanna-bees would go out and solicit
fighters for their cause. Then a series of battles would be fought,
maybe round-robin, maybe free-for-all. Who ever one the war would become 
the next Monarchs. Archery, light-weapons and A&S could all be war points.

Now, this method actually DOES test whether someone has the organizational
skills, political adeptness, and intimate knowledge of the Kingdom neccesary
to rule. And it would be great fun. And it's period, while at the same time 
being "democratic", in that the people would decide who the next king and
queen would be.

The wanna-bees need not dirty their hands with actual combat, although
if either or both were "hot sticks" I'm sure they'd want to. I dont see
any reason why geting killed in battle would prevent one from ascending,
the throne, although that's one wat you could play it if you liked. There's
no real issue of "renting a hot stick", although you could of course
bribe a whole bunch of sticks, to the benefit of the Society if it
were done right (e.g. bribes have to go to SCA organizations).

Would Corpora have to change to allow this ?

--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tadhg's ten word blazon test
Date: 25 Dec 92 21:29:08
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org's message of 24 Dec 92 23:39:02 GMT


Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim) writes:
]  The point is that the "core" of our "period" is Anglo-French. 
]  If more people took German personae, then perhaps I would be
]  willing to consider German practices less eccentric, in an SCA
]  context.

Although the culture derivation of our traditions may
be Anglo-French, my own Completely Unscientific feel
for our membership is that it's mainly Celts, with
Normons, Viking, Saxons, and French closely tied for
second, and Spaniards, Arabs, Germans, Mongols and the 
Japaneses back in the third tier.

So, what was pre-Anglo Celtic Heraldry like ? Beats me :
they probably didn't have any.


--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)
Subject: Re: Re-joining the SCA as a Bandit
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 21:16:33 GMT

In article <uplink.724757799@cwis>, uplink@cwis.unomaha.edu (Axel Rose) writes:
|> 	My question, to you knowledgeable Lords & Ladies, is this:
|> Is it possible to join the SCA and not join the local Barony?  In this,
|> I imagine I'll be sort of a Bandit, not owing fealty to the local 
|> Baron, and could still be a part of the peerage (hey, Robin Hood
|> got away with it, and according to SOME legends, he's period!)
|> 
|> 	And what does this entail?  Am I allowed to go to Barony 
|> events?  Or am I a complete, autonomous unit?  (And would that mean
|> that I can award myself Rank?  Just kidding... :) )
|> 
|> 	Things to ponder...
|> 
|> Axel the Bandit
|> 

As I have often been told, it's not where you live but who you play
with. In the Mists it easy to live in one barony or province and
play with another. The are physically a lot of people in the SCA who
live in the Province of Southern Shores, but there are less than 15
(roughly) who are active in the running of the province. Are fighter
practice is well attended, (I've heard the nickname of king maker
referred to it). So pick a group that you wish to be associated with,
and go to the events you want to go to. Most baronial events in
our area are well intended by members of other groups.

And most of all, have fun.

Euriol of Lothian
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period calendar; Nonfighter kings; Drachenwald ideas
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:26:58
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
	<DOCONNOR.93Jan1101330@potato.sedona.intel.com>
	<VADER.93Jan2001412@meryl.csd.uu.se>
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se's message of 2 Jan 93 00:14:12


vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg) writes:
] [ I wrote ]
] >Except that I feel the primary duties of the Monarchs is to get
] >around, visit their domain, see that their Kingdom is healthy
] >in every corner of it.
]
] Don't you think that longer reigns would make this easier to fit
] into the Royalty's schedule and wallets?

I think that would make the visits to rare. If you only see
your dentist once a decade, you won't notice the bad filling
till too late (this wisdom from personal experience).

As to wallets, Royal travel to each of their subdomains
once per reign ought to be subsidized, I think.

All IMHO, of course.
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: UDRJ010@oak.cc.kcl.ac.UK (Etienne)
Subject: Non-European Personas
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 12:59:00 GMT

Greetings unto the Rialto;

	On the translation of titles into Arabic:

	Having studied Arabic for one year in an intensive academic
environ I feel sort of qualified to comment here.  Malik _does_ mean
"king"  the modern kingdoms of Jordan and Saudi Arabia are ruled by
"Maliks". 
	As for atabeg I cannot comment as its not arabic(probably
turkish root like "basha")
	Caliph is a reserved term used for the temporal/spiritual
leader of the Islamic world from Muhammad's death until it was
assumed by the Ottoman Emporer.  It means literally "successor". 
A Caliph (especially the first four or "rightly-guided Caliphs") was
similar to a pope/king.  Perhaps more akin to the Byzantine emporer.(?)
The first four caliphs(before the split of Islam into Sunni and Shi'i sects)
were/are regarded by all muslims with reverence.  They were not divine
however.(Nor for that matter was Muhammad or any human).  In short, definitely
not a term to use for a title.
	Emir is a means prince and works for that substitution.
	Wazir which means minister will work for baron(I'm working on 
that one so don't put too much weight on it-it might break)

						In Service to the Society
						Etienne Harcourt de Lyons
						and points East

		Dislaimers? The Truth cannot be Disclaimed!   -:)

From: Ulf.Gunnarsson@f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Ulf Gunnarsson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: HELP! name searching.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 23:31:00 -0500

Lothar talked some on names:

TWB>>Not all of the names of characters in period stories were borne by real
   >>people.  "Kvedulfr"  from Egil's Saga means "Night Wolf" or werewolf.
   >>This is NOT a name that a real Norseman would be proud to bear. It had
   >>overtones of berserk madness, evil and magic, three things that made
   >>Norsemen edgy.

   I'm not so sure of this, Lothar. I have a friend here who goes by the
handle of "Werewolf" and has had his name legally changed to "Wolf". He
likes to make people edgy. Some people are proud of their misdeeds. Look
in the armorial sometime at the various anti-social bynames being used
in the SCA.
   Now, I am not speaking from a researched point of view, but I would
assume that the Norse were not too different than we are today. They
would have their share of self-proclaimed trouble-makers. AS WELL AS the
number of people who get a name stuck on them by others. A friend of
mine is named Hakon, but my children had trouble saying the word. To
this day, they and many others call him "Bacon".
   So. I would not toss out the names that are a bit disturbing. BUT I
do agree highly that one should examine the source and the meaning
behind literary names before adopting them, if for no other reason than
to be aware of how others will perceive you.

Ulf


 * SLMR 2.1a * (to_be || !to_be) == question; /* HAMLET */

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: "Michael Squires" <mikes@moose.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Midrealm Crown Tourney customs
Summary: really, it's not that bad
Keywords: crown
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 12:18:37 -0500

In article <1992Dec30.005514.11769@epas.toronto.edu> nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) writes:
>
>To those who have said that Crown Tournaments are the apogee of the tournament,
>I can only say that you must have been very fortunate in your choice
>of crown tournaments to fight in.  In my experience, crown tournament
>bouts are characterised by appalling conservatism (occasionally
>bordering on cowardice), rhino-hiding even from people of normally
>good standards, arrogant marshalling, and lack of the jolly good
>fellowship that makes fighting fun.

1.  Crown Tourney is the only tourney in which the victor wins something
    that they consider to be "real".  This has a corrosive effect on 
    a fighter and we may learn a lot more about who someone really is
    in a Crown Tourney.

2.  The best fighters often believe that they have an afterburner mode that
    is often turned on in Crown Tourney. One can win other tourneys while
    making mistakes, but that is usually not the case with Crown Tourney.
    Given this, it is reasonable to be conservative if one is really
    trying to win.

    The best fighters understand that SCA fighting is a game and make full
    use of the rules in their bouts.  For example, there are fighters who
    use the list edge tactically.  It is up to the marshalls to be careful
    to watch for this kind of thing.  When I am marshalling a fight in
    which there is a fighter that uses the list edge, for example, I will
    push the populace back and let the fighters run up on me before I call
    hold, rather than calling a hold when they are a yard away.

3.  Calibration standards in Crown Tourneys are usually higher than a
    normal tourney; adrenalin by itself will do that.  There is also
    a strong tendency of the populace to see blows that did not occur;
    for example, the finals between Sir Grod and Sir Hugo in which many
    MidRealmers still believe that Sir Hugo did not take a good blow but
    which the movies show clearly was a glance (Hugo started rolling well
    before the blow).

    Some fighters will, in the excitement, lose their ability to calibrate.
    This is the point at which a MidRealm marshall would be forced to
    intervene.  Whether or not this is a Good Thing is subject to 
    differing opinions but I believe that active marshalling in Crowns is
    one reason why there is no move in the Middle to make 10ga helmets
    minimum standard for "serious" fighters (no, I'm not kidding).


-- 

Mike Squires (mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu)     812 855 3974 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu          546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran)
Subject: Re: Fighting for Crown..Another question.
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: None worth mentioning.
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 07:53:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.093431.13345@bsu-ucs> 00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum) writes:
>
>Okay, here's another oddball question just out of idle curiosity...
>
>Have _both_ members of a prospective Royal couple ever entered a Crown list?
>Or is this explicitly ruled out?
>
Certainly it happens. As a matter of fact (Ansteorrans, please correct
me if this is incorrect) WHen Dutchess Sir Rowan became the first lady
ever to win a crown tournament, her opponent in the final bout was
Duke Hector. Her lord.

--
	Mark Cochran 		Lord Edward Tremaine
	merlin@eddie.ee.vt.edu	Aarquelle, Outlands
"It's easy. Just hold the dull part and hit him with the sharp part."
	- Don Alaric Greythorne of Glen Mor talking to a new fighter
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet