From: seurer+@rchland.ibm.com (Bill Seurer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: GURPS combat time.
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:08:59 GMT
Reply-To: "Bill Seurer,905161 " <billseurer@vnet.ibm.com>

|> Does anyone have any ideas for how to lengthen the simulated time for
|> GURPS combat, so that we end up with more believable, and colorful,
|> results?

One thing I tried was when we went into combat mode no one could talk.
Each person had to write down what they were doing for the next two
seconds.  Speach was limited to 5 workds or less per second. After each
second of combat they had to write down what they were doing 2 seconds
from then.  It was lots of fun as the players stumbled around and got in
each others way (one guy leapt onto a table just as another guy grabbed
it with poltergeist and hurled it at the foes! :-).  But I decided it
took too long and haven't used it since.

|> My problem is that when the group I GM goes into "combat-mode" we all
|> tend to make the best tactical decisions, and optimize our maneuvers
|> every turn.  The result is a 12 second battle that probably would have
|> lasted longer in real life (and contained much less conversation!).  The
|> shortness of battles then trains the players to optimize their maneuvers
|> even more, since they learn that with such quick combat it becomes
|> extremely important to evaluate and close as quickly as possible if
|> you're going to join the fray in time to help your comrades ...

Ah yes, the old
the-players-are-a-hive-mind-with-inifinite-speed-of-thought problem.
They take 10 minutes to discuss the next 1 second of combat.

An easy solution to this is to allow each player 5 seconds (or less) to
state what they are doing when their turn comes up.  Can't decide?  Too
bad!  They stand there looking dumb.  Roll defensive manuevers at the
same time as offensive ones too.

|> One dissatisfaction with these intense bursts of combat, is that there's
|> realistically no time for much conversation, or creative action.  I
|> refuse to believe that an offer of parley can be given, digested by the
|> opponent, accepted, and communicated in 1-3 seconds.  (It takes 3
|> seconds just to say this sentence!)  The opponent *can* be rendered
|> unconscious in this time, however!  Also, perhaps it's realistic to
|> allow attacks against an opponent every second, but to do this more than
|> 2 or 3 times in a row seems hyperenergetic to me -- do fighters *really*
|> do 5 blows in 5 seconds?  10 in 10?  I agree that dropping and picking
|> up your weapon while squared off pretty much makes you toast, but if
|> you're not engaged, and in the center of the party, the lost 3 seconds
|> shouldn't have much effect on your ability to join the fray before it's
|> over.

Having seen an SCA combat (hey, it's not real but it's about the best
we've got) it goes something like this.

1) Opponents stare at each other and slowly maneuver together.  I assume
they are sizing each other up and looking for weaknesses.
2) Blows start landing and bodies falling.  Usually it is all over in
just seconds.  SCA combats even take longer 'cause they call breaks to
let the "bodies" get out of the way.

Step 1 usually takes much longer than step 2.  This is something that
GURPS is missing.  There's no need to size up your foes, you just wade
in.  Perhaps there should be some sort of contest of IQs (or weapon
skills?) beforehand and if you win you get a bonus on your skill (you
figured out some weakness in the opponent's stance) and if you lose you
get a penalty.

And based on a few SCA combats I saw, the one blow/second is not NEARLY
fast enough for lighter weapons.  I saw one where a guy with two
shortswords pummeled his foe so quickly the other guy had no time to do
more than hide behind his shield and vainly try to ward off the blows.
He was probably landing about 3 or 4 blows a second for maybe 15 or 20
seconds.

|> One viewpoint is to say that it's a matter of role-playing better.  I've
|> often admonished everyone (including myself) to intersperse a lot of
|> Free Actions between maneuvers -- especially after striking the fatal
|> blow -- for "evaluation", but this has not been very effective:
|> everyone gets too excited, the use of the turn is too crucial to
|> success, and I end up having to confront (or be confonted by) the
|> players too much.
|>
|> A combat variation we tried was to subtract 1 from skill for each
|> consecutive blow, and restore one for each non-Move/Attack.  The intent
|> was to decrease the average number of blows per second, and thus extend
|> the number of turns used for the combat.  (What actually happened was
|> that the fighters simply accepted the accumulating penalty for about 5
|> turns before "resting."  Perhaps it would have been more effective to
|> levy the penalty against *damage* as well ...)
|>
|> Any suggestions?

The best solution I have found to all this is ignore the full combat
system 99% of the time and just wing it using the basic system (with
some advanced options like aiming tossed in).  That way time and space
can be abstracted a bit and the combat lengthed.

- Bill Seurer    Language and Compiler Development     IBM Rochester, MN
  Internet: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com          America On-Line: BillSeurer
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp