From: bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi)
Subject: Re: Few remarks about discussion on Baha'i Faith.
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 07:35:27 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.190130.6690@ac.dal.ca> 01saeid@ac.dal.ca writes:
>
>Dear Behnam:
>
>I am very much appreciated by your article. Now I feel that there is a mutual
>way of understanding regarding our discussion.
>As we both agreed by now the compilation of Qur'an took several years and
>it was done by serious of memorization and writings which could have been
>misplaced or exchanged but according to our view this was never took place
>and we both agree the Qur'an is an Authentic book.
>
>What I expect from you from now on is not blame me for choosing to believe in
>a book that has been written only one hundred and thirty years ago and it was
>signed and sealed by the writer of the book (Baha'u'llah, the blessed beauty,
>the book was Agdas). This book never had to be memorized or compiled after
>his admise and ther is only one version of book available and moreover nobody
>is allowed to prescribe or describe the writings in that book.


Note:  I never said anything that challenged the authenticity of Bahai 
scritpures.   



>This book (Agdas) does not contain any stories and it is only compiled from
>the laws of the Bahai faith.
>
>There is an enormous difference between the book of Agdas and Qur'an. The 
>similarity between them is that they were both written in Arabic and both
>are holy books. The book of Agdas is much shorter in volume and as I said
>it only contains the laws of the Bahai faith.
>
>As far as I am concerned Islam is a regional religion. It is not degined
>for the world and obviously the concepts discussed in Qur'an is not a worldy
>concepts. 1400 years ago there were hardly any communications between the
>people of two region and hence no one could assume a worldly vision.
>
>It was only four hundred years ago that it was proven that the earth is
>a round planet and it is not a flat land. Concepts such as these have changed
>the human desires in the past centuries and the need for a book which has taken
>years to compile and it has been either memorized or written is vastly outdated.
>I can not imagine any vision that the people of 1500 years ago can share with
>the people of today and I challenge to define the world vision of the people
>of 1500 years ago and the people of today. Today we are looking eliminating
>the barriers in the space and breaking the limit of death. 1500 years ago we 
>were perhaps looking at survival and the family values. 
>
>The needs have changed and hence the desires ahve changed. We baha'is believe
>that the current fast rate of advancement is only due to the appearance of
>Baha'u'llah (the king of the kings). His holy spirit has changed the values
>which the human lives were depended in the past centuries and as you are aware
>the values and desires of life is rapidly changing. If you sincerely look at
>the history of the Bahai faith you will realize that around the year 1884 (
>the year Bab announced his mission) there has been many revolutions around
>the world. The concept of Jahuva Witness (if I am spelling it correctly) was
>born in that year in US. The concept of Ahmadieh (A branch of Islam) was 
>established then. I personally believe that the link between the god's spirit
>and the human being had been established and we were being showered by the 
>spirituality of god and it is no wonder that some people felt the spirit and
>by not founding the right person they assumed that they were the messangers
>of God. 
>
>Regarding the Ahadith, in the Bahai faith there is no (I repeat) no basis for
>ahadith. No one can use any story to prove any point with in the Bahai faith.
>This has already stopped the confusion that existed within Islam.
>
>If you think you have an easy way of finding the truth about the Ahadith, please
>excuse me for not following your path because I think I have found a much easier
>way than yours and I have lived a much less confused life than yours.
>
>===========================
>I have to refer to your explanation about ahadith:
>:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>> The method I mentioned (isnad analysis + matn analysis) is the 
>> usual way of evaluating ahadith.  It's the logical way of going
>> about this business.  And that's what scholars do.
>> For example, isnad-analysis means that you rate a hadith based
>> on the nature and number of its isnads and based on the 
>> credibility of the narrators.   And there are many ratings.  To
>> name a few: mutawatir, sahih, hasan, maqtu' or munqati', mursal,
>> da'if, qarib, etc.
>> 
>> However, I suspected that perhaps the premises of Mr. Hakim on Hadith
>> were different.  So I offered to base our discussions 
>> on Mr. Hakim's premises.  I did this for two reasons:
>> 
>> 1.  It won't  affect the outcome of the argument.
>> 2.  It saves us time as we can perhaps avoid technical arguments
>>     about hadith.
>:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>I still think it is a waste of time to deal with these. These either should
>not have existed or it has been brought to existance by the Moslim Scholars
>to take advantage of the time and place in order to implement the ideas of 
>their own. Your explanation adds to my confusion as to why I have deal
>differently with the word of god.
>
>:::::::::::::::::::
>Your comment again
>:::::::::::::::::::: 
>> On minor and technical legal issues, diversity of 
>> opinion is to be expected.  However, on major issues there's no
>> room for diversity.  An obvious example is that the Unity of God is 
>> emphasized, so there's no room for polytheism.  Another simple example
>> is the meaning of the phrase "yawm al-qiyama" (Day of Resurrection).  This
>> phrase appears exactly 70 times in the Holy Qur'an.  There's also a whole
>> Sourah just named al-qiyama which graphically describes the Day of 
>> Resurrection.  What this terminology is all about is cannot be mistaken
>> by any person of average mind who reads the Qur'an.  Of course, there are
>> many other examples.
>:::::::::::::::::::::
>
>I don't think there world would allow diversity of opinion. The points
>such as Day of Resurrection had already been mentioned by all the religions 
>prior to Islam and it is only the minor points that makes the religion different
>than the other. We Baha'is believe that the origion of all religions are the
>same and it is only the laws and the descriptions that will change according
>to the needs of the time of appearance of the religion. Moreover we believe
>that we are in the period of progressive revelations in which we will be
>thrived to the perfection by the appearnace of the manifestations of god.
>The only thing that will change is the minor points. Nobody will change the
>fact that god is one.
>
>Now, which one is it, is the minor point all diverse or the major points.
>
>I have nothing more to say.
>
>Saeid.

Behnam Sadeghi
Xref: sparky soc.culture.iranian:6488 talk.religion.misc:12891