HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Subject: Re: dry suit and winter gear
Reply-To: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:24:46 GMT

In article <BuKL8r.8nv@well.sf.ca.us> sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy) writes
>
>I just started kayaking this summer and now am preparing for winter
>paddling.  I know I need to get a dry suit but wanted to get some feedback
>from folks before in vesting in one.  Is is better to get a 2 piece or
>a one piece suit, I heard the two piece suits leak.  What brand is good and
>what should I look for in buying one.  I have NO CLUE about any of this and
>would greatly apprciate any help at all.  Thanks

	It depends on whether you expect to be swimming a lot. It's true that
	wearing a dry top and dry pants (two separate items) is a combo that's
	likely to leak, but it's much more versatile. I already had a dry top
	so I bought dry pants to go along with it for winter paddling. I don't
	swim that much anymore (knock on... etc.) so I just have them *in case*
	I swim (i.e. if I swim I know I'll be uncomfortable afterwards but not
	hypothermic). If you think you're going to be swimming somewhat often,
	a one piece would seem better as it will keep you more comfortably dry.
	Both set-ups should fit the bill for protecting you from dangerous cold

	The only problem with one-piece dry suits is you don't have the
	flexibility of two pieces. I can take my dry pants off after the harder
	parts of runs if I get warm, while I still have my dry top on.

	Just my $.02

-------
Bored of my old .sig and lacking enough bikes to make an impressive list...
Sea-Bass Sears --> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu --> DoD#0516      |Stanley, ID.|
'79 Yamaha XS750F -- '85 Toyota 4Runner -- '92 Perception Corisca|    NYC, NY.|
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: root@ute.Columbia.NCR.COM ()
Subject: Re: Kayak certification
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 12:51:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.221116.10377@engr.latech.edu>
   dalea@engr.latech.edu ((Dale  O. Anderson, Ph.D. )) writes:
>Does anyone out there know of any certifications for white water kayakers?
>If so, who do I contact and what are the requirements?

The ACA (American Canoe Association) certifies kayak instructors; that's
the only certification that I'm aware of.  Let me know if you want me to
look up their address or phone number.

Barry Shelton                                        Question Authority!
barry@ute.columbiasc.ncr.com                   Resist much, obey little.

Standard disclaimer.
From: sdh4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT DYLAN HARDING)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Dry Suit Recommendations
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:07:18 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

I have been paddling for over four years and have worn a drysuit aevery winter
since I began.  Here is what I think:


1. Two piece suits do leak a little bit but if you take the time to roll the
waist gaskets together properly, the leakage is minimal and will occur only if
you swim.  The two piece suit will save you the expense of buying a seperate
dry top for slighty warmer weather paddling.

2. If you get a one piece suit be sure to buy one with a front zipper.  Every
new one piece suit I have seen has a front zipper.  This enables you to put it
on yourself and take it off yourself - a plus when all that coffee you drank
in the morning has to come out.

3. Make sure the suit is made of a heavy weight nylon with a durable coating.
There are some suits out there made by CKS (Stohlquist) called Nudex Drysuits
which are made out of a very light cloth.  These rip fairly easily.

4. Make sure that the gaskets are stitched and glued to the nylon.

5. Do not buy any drysuit which has dry or cracked gaskets.  This means that
it has been in the store a long time or has been exposed to direct sunlight or
hot store lights.

6. I have a Stohlquist Eridanus two piece suit and have been very happy with
it.  Kokatat seems to make really nice suits.  The new trim on the Stohlquist
suits make them look like something you would see on American Gladiators.

7. A fleece lining around the neck makes a big difference.  Be sure to buy a
suit with neoprene cuffs around the wrist gasket (and perhaps the ankle gasket
too - but usually you will wear a neoprene bootie over the ankle gasket).

Those are my long thoughts about drysuits.

                Scott Harding
                Lehigh U.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chrbid@auto-trol.com (Chris Bidwell)
Subject: Re: Corsica C-1 Was: Paddle length for C-1
Originator: chrbid@chrbid
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:14:59 GMT

>>7" in my Gyromax and a painfully low 6" in my converted Corsica C-1. 
>                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
>        Now *this* sounds interesting... I have enough trouble getting my
>        Corsica moving with *two* blades...

In my never ending quest for the perfect C-1 from steep creeking, I bought
a new Corsica last Spring and converted it to a C-1.  I chose a Corsica
because it is short and high volume, and because it is the widest kayak
that I could find.

Perception would not
sell one that was not fully outfitted as a kayak, so I had to rip out the 
seat, thigh braces, and footpegs.  The hull plastic on the inside of the 
cockpit extended too far, so I took my sabre saw (corsica saw?) and took 
about 2" off the inside.

I got a Gyromax replacement saddle and popped it right in (after letting it set
out in the sun for an hour to soften up).

The Corsica is 25 1/2 inches wide verses 27 1/2 inches for the Gyromax, so
I lowered the pedestal down an inch to maintain more stability.  The Corsica
has a shallow arch hull (Gyromax is flat-bottomed) so that when your knees are
on the hull in paddling position, they are up much higher than they would
be in a flat-bottomed boat.  As a result, the Corsica makes a painful boat
to paddle as a canoe.  The corsica also spins on a dime and bounces around
much more than the Gyromax.  The narrow hull means that the Corsica is very
fast as a C-1, but not as stable.

I have paddled the Corsica C-1 all season (~20 runs), and have decided to 
convert it back to a kayak due to the pain factor.  If I could paddle it
comfortably, then it would be ideal.  I will keep the Corsica for surfing
and playing on easier water, and use my Gyromax for the tougher runs.

I have found a guy that will "weld" a 1/2" thick plastic patch to the ends
of my boat, after I have cut about 16" from each end.  Then I will try using
the Gyromax as a creek boat.  Has anyone tried this, or have any other ideas
for a "Creekin C-1".

-Chris
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: stop Auburn Dam, save $1 billion
Date: 10 Sep 1992 02:11:54 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo


It'll cost you less to call your Congress(wo)man now than to pay for
Auburn Dam later, if the Fazio amendment passes next week.  Please
call today, whether you live in California or not.  The Congressional
switchboard number is 202-224-3121.  You can save even more money by
calling your Representative's local office!  Thank you.

Note for paddlers: if filled, Auburn Dam would flood a stunning class
IV run on the N Fork American, and several all-year runs (ranging from
class II to V) on the Middle Fork American.


		AUBURN DAM UPDATE

The House is supposed to vote on the Natural Resources Development
Act of 1992 (HR 5754) next Wednesday, September 16.  From the floor,
Vic Fazio will try to add his Auburn Dam amendment to this bill.

Here's how you can help defeat Auburn dam: call your Congress(wo)man's
office and say "Please vote against adding the Auburn Dam amendment
(HR 5414) to the Natural Resources Development Act of 1992 (HR 5754)
when Congressman Fazio proposes this amendment next week."

Auburn Dam is being touted for flood control, but levee improvements
would be more effective, and cheaper.  Auburn Dam now supposed to be a
dry dam-- a billion dollars of concrete with no water behind it.

The Sacramento Area Flood Control Agency's consulting engineers report*
recommends a series of actions-- upgrading existing flood control levees,
lowering an existing spillway on Folsom Dam, and making a modest change
in Folsom flood storage-- to provide real flood control for Sacramento,
and save taxpayers more than $567 million in dam building costs.

---
* "A Review of Key Issues from the American River Watershed
Investigation Feasibility Study and an Analysis of Alternatives
for Increasing Flood Protection in Sacramento", Mitchell Swanson
and Associates, March 1992.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: spangler@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Christopher A. Spangler)
Subject: Raft Purchasing
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 00:54:21 GMT

I am a member of the Purdue U. Canoe-Kayak Club.  We are currently
looking to purchase a raft to replace an old army surplus raft we
currently have.

Does anyone out there have any suggestions on where we could get a 
decent condition used raft for a reasonable price?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Chris Spangler
From: pabo@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Eric Pabo)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Colorado Canoeing Recommendations
Date: 10 Sep 92 03:33:24 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO

I am looking for recommendations for lakes, pond, reservoirs, streams, etc
in Colorado for canoeing.  The following are the criteria that I have 
thought of so far.

1.  Within 1 days  drive time of Ft. Collins or Denver.  

2.  Little competition/interference with water skiers, jet skis, and or 
other high speed motorboats.

3.  No serious whitewater- mild rapids only.

4.  Scenery and or wildlife would be nice.

Please e-mail me or if you think it would be of general interest please 
feel free to post.  Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Eric F Pabo
pabo@hpsmpa.lvld.hp.com
303-679-3947
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Virginia Beach
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: ?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:27:01 GMT


I've just been asked to speak at a conference in Virginia Beach.  I will
be there September 22-24th.  does anyone have any information ablut
paddling out there?  I would love to try surfing in a kayak if any
outfitters teach such a thing.  I would GREATLY appreicate any information.
I won't have any equipment so would probably have to work through an
outfitter.
/s
From: cd517@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Douglas J. Narby)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Waveski to Boat transition
Date: 10 Sep 1992 03:57:08 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Anyone out there ever move from a waveski to a kayak, or
vice versa?  I have only slight experience in kayaks,
all of it in the surf here in FL.  However, I have been
waveskiing actively for three years now, and wonder
if there are any commonalities.  For anyone who has
never seen a waveski, it looks like a fat surfboard,
and is treated like a kayak-you sit on (not in) it,
paddle out to sea, and surf in.  I have sufred up to 
6-8' waves, and wonder if the skills I have learned
might enable me to pick up kayaking if forced to
move inland (I'm on the job market, and don't
know where I might land).  

If anyone has made this transition, tell me what you have
learned-otherwise, maybe we can strike up a conversation
to try and figure out how the sports compare.

Thanks

Personla responses may E-mailed to:

NARBYD@SERVAX.FIU.EDU

or directly to the address this post originates from
or to the newsgroup

.sig? what .sig?
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Kayak certification
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:04:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Utah

In article <1992Sep14.221116.10377@engr.latech.edu> dalea@engr.latech.edu ((Dale  O. Anderson, Ph.D. )) writes:

   Does anyone out there know of any certifications for white water kayakers?

no, but i know a lot of whitewater kayakers that are certifiable.

;->

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: Dry Suit Recommendations
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:35:47 GMT


this helps a ton.  Would anyone mind if I compiled all these suggetions and
reprinted them in out local outdoors newsletter?  The suggestions are
great and would like others to see them.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: Virginia Beach
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:15:08 GMT


Dave, thank you so much!!!!!!  I would also like to sea kayak if I can
get lessons for that instead.  I don't much care what I do as long as
I can get in a kayak and paddle, whether it be surfing or sea kayaking.
Have you ever been in a river kayak(is that what they call them?)
I  am wondering if you can roll in those if you can also do it in the
sea kayak.  I'm going kayaking this weekend on the New River again,
the Gauley is running but that is a bit (okay a lot) above my
skill level.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: brunner@telebit.com (Eric Brunner)
Subject: Suggestions for paddling near WDC in mid-November
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:28:23 GMT


I'll be attending the Fall IETF in Washington the week of November 16-20,
andI'm going to take my folboat double along and go exploring the weekend
prior and following. Any one have any suggestions for birding along the
Chesapeake, or recommended books on the area?

Thanks in Advance!

-- 
Eric Brunner Tule Network Services
uucp: uunet!practic!brunner
trying to understand multiprocessing is like having bees live inside your head.
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Guidebook opinions
Date: 12 Sep 1992 01:47:01 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

I have to admit I'm a guidebook junkie.  This time of year,
when there aren't any rivers running that I haven't already
done, I like to buy a new guidebook and pretend I'm floating
(or swimming) the shoals.  I just picked up Doug North's new
combined "Washington Whitewater" - N Skykomish here I come!

Guidebooks range from excellent (Cassady, North) to very poor
(Anderson).  I'm flexible, but cannot forgive misinformation
or wrong-headedness.

Cassady & Calhoun's "CA Whitewater" is one of the best.  The
only knocks against it are that it doesn't include river logs
or topographic maps.  But the descriptions are succinct and
accurate.  Stanley & Holbek's "CA [for kayaks]" is pretty bad.
River ratings are often several classes off (the Truckee and
main Eel are overrated, most everything else is underrated),
plus river descriptions are vapid and imprecise.

Oregon is perhaps the worst-served state.  "Soggy Sneakers" is
unattractive, with uneven-quality descriptions.  Garren's "OR
River Tours" contains very few runs, often only class II runs,
and descriptions border on the ridiculous.  Quinn, Quinn & Quinn's
books on the Rogue, the Deschutes, and the Illinois commit the
most fundamental guidebook sin: overdescription.  I get lost in
all the descriptions of class I riffles.

North's "WA Whitewater" is a classic.  The maps lack topographic
data, but river logs and descriptions are excellent.  This is
an updated combination of what used to be two volumes.  If you've
never seen a great guidebook, this one's only $17.

Amaral's "Idaho Whitewater" is better then Stanley & Holbek,
but suffers from the same problem of sketchy descriptions and
lack of good maps.  Garren's "Idaho River Tours" suffers from
the same problems as his Oregon book, namely very few listings.
Another Idaho book (name forgotten) is kind of in between.  None
of these is up there with Cassady or North.

The worst guidebook I've seen is Anderson & Hopkinson "Rivers of
the Southwest".  Every time I run something in their book, I am
amazed at the inaccuracy of their description, and the pomposity
of their prose.  Moreover, the maps are bad.  Doug Wheat's "Rivers
of CO" (?) is better, though the descriptions are sketchy and few
maps are included.  Stohlquist's "CO Whitewater" is OK but kind of
class-V-kayak nerdy and limited.

I've never seen a guidebook for Nevada or Wyoming.  I really like
the Belknap river maps for desert river touring, but they are short
on description, logistics, and info about rapids.

The three-volume "Appalachian Whitewater" is a good collection, but
not up there with the best.  It's hard for me to judge because I
have never run the rivers described therein.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: jhhardy@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (nobody you know)
Subject: land between the lakes
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 23:24:00 GMT



I'm thinking about taking my canoe down to land between the lakes next
weekend.  I've never been there before so i was wondering if ssomeone
might be kind enough to point me to some of the less crowded areass (if
there are any).

Alos my canoe and I are fairly new to the midwest (read "I got here two
weeks ago") so I would also appreciate any general information on good
places to go canoeing out here.  I'm willing to travel up to about 400
miles from bloomington indiana, or a bit farther if the canoeing is real
good.

Thanx

jjim hardy
jhhardy@ucs.indiana.edu
 

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: root@ute.Columbia.NCR.COM ()
Subject: Re: Guidebook opinions
Summary: Southeastern US Guidebooks
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 15:03:24 GMT

In article <lb2j0lINNgp7@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
   tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
> The three-volume "Appalachian Whitewater" is a good collection, but
> not up there with the best.  It's hard for me to judge because I
> have never run the rivers described therein.

"Appalachian Whitewater" (at least the first two volumes, I don't have the
third) is outdated, inconsistent, and usually overrates the difficulty of
the rapids.  Unfortunately, since its text comes from the other southeastern
guidebooks, the other guidebooks tend to have the same problems.

A new edition of Bob Benner's "Carolina Whitewater" (with steep creek info
by his son David) is supposed to be out this year, but I haven't seen it yet.
I hope the new edition corrects the overrating problem.

William Nealy's guidebooks ("Whitewater Home Companion" I & II) are certainly
the most fun.  Read his books for the humor, but take his river descriptions
with a grain of salt.

I've read so many overrated descriptions that I suppose I'm really going to
get hammered if one ever turns out to be accurate!

Barry Shelton                                        Question Authority!
barry@ute.columbiasc.ncr.com                   Resist much, obey little.

Standard disclaimer.

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: dgs@draco.larc.nasa.gov (Dave G Shively)
Subject: Re: Virginia Beach
Originator: dgs@draco.larc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
 
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 12:52:40 GMT

You're in luck.  I live in Hampton, Va. which is just across
the tunnel from Va. Beach and I just purchased a sea-kayak two weeks
ago from a shop in Va. Beach.  I don't know too much about the surf
kayak scene around but a few weeks ago at Va. Beach the East Coast
Surfing Championships were held and I heard that there were some
surf kayak demos going on.  Anyway, give the shop in Va. Beach a 
call. Sorry, I don't have the number here at work. You should be able
to get it from long distance info- the area code for Va. Beach is
804. (info 1-804-555-1212) The shop is Wild River Outfitters on
Va. Beach Blvd. Good luck, if you need any more info you can reach
me on e-mail.

Dave Shively
dgs@draco.larc.nasa.gov
804-864-1815
From: dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: What's still running in CA?
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:31:24 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Sony Microsystems Corp, San Jose, CA

OK, so we're moving into that nether-region of whitewater.  As
I understand it, we have the following runs available to us:

	SF American
		Recent flows on weekends have been around 1200cfs.
		According to one person, there's a lot of water in the
		reservoir, and with repairs coming up (when?), we may
		have nice flows, especially during the rodeo (when?).

	MF American
		I don't know if it's worth doing, but you can run it on
		Saturdays.

	Camp Nine (Stansilaus)
		It was running around 600cfs this weekend, which is
		quite reasonable.  I've heard of some much higher
		releases this summer, but nothing regular.

	Trinity
		500cfs; What can I say about 500cfs?  It's too low
		to make anything fun, except that it's too high
		to run Burnt Ranch in an IK (come on, 400!).

	McCloud
		I don't know about the upper run, but the lower run
		is great for kayaks at the current flow.  I can't
		wait to get back up there!

The Upper Klamath is running, but the releases seem too short for
comfort.

The NF Stanislaus has been at 160 all summer, which is just high enough
for a really lousy IK run; give us another 100cfs one day a week!

The Pillsbury run on the Eel came up last September.  Anyone have any
news on that one?

Did I miss anything in CA?

Any predictions on early rainy-season runs?
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: jerryk@col.hp.com (Jerry Kinsley)
Subject: Re: Guidebook opinions
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:16:53 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
> 
> The worst guidebook I've seen is Anderson & Hopkinson "Rivers of
> the Southwest".  Every time I run something in their book, I am
> amazed at the inaccuracy of their description, and the pomposity

Anderson writes about stuff he has not run, a classic example; There is no
mention of the Class VI Supermax on the North fork of the Platte, here in Colorado, in the Bailey to Pine run.

> of their prose.  Moreover, the maps are bad.  Doug Wheat's "Rivers
> of CO" (?) is better, though the descriptions are sketchy and few

Doug wrote the Floaters Guide to Colorado. Doug is a school teacher, his 
education is in geology and history, and he teaches history in Junior High 
School.
He has done many first descents in CO, and has done several trips with 
Walt Blackadar, before his death.

Rivers of Colorado was written by Earl Perry, a book aimed at open canoists,
subtitled Ten Easy River Trips in Colorado. Earl is/was a river ranger in 
Dinasour, and a director of NORS.
From: mikec@ux1.lbl.gov (Mike Chin)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: WW in Minnessota
Date: 10 Sep 1992 19:18:25 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: ux1.lbl.gov

I'll be in St Paul October 3-10th, any recommendations for III-IV
runs? Boat rental there is iffy apparently, I'd consider dragging my Dancer
onto the plane if there were some stuff to do and if somebody were
interested in purchasing a 3.5yr Red Dancer w/spraydeck for say $300.

mike chin
MJChin@lbl.gov
510-486-5143
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle