From: stcroix@ultra.com (Bill St. Croix)
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Reply-To: stcroix@ultra.com (Bill St. Croix)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 17:36:20 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.183212.349@cbfsb.cb.att.com> sms@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (steven.m.stein) writes:
>In article <75nG027bc0Nq00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> jsp@pls.amdahl.com writes:
>>rnjx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>>
>>No.  Unequivocally it is never, ever ok.  If you know that the other person
>>is in a relationship, then you are scum if you lift one little finger to
>>try to damage or break up that relationship.  Obviously, if you don't know 
>>that a person is involved, you aren't doing anything bad by wooing someone
>>whom you think is unattached.  But the second you find out otherwise, you'd
>>better back off entirely.
>>
>Would it be my responsibility to back off??????  Souldn't the person
>involved in the relationship be the one to make the decision??????  It's
>their relationship????? Who am I to decide what they sould or shouldn't
>do. 

Yes, Yes, Yes, and finally, you are a decent human being that realizes that
if she is *really* that interested in you, that she will break up with
her SO and go after you.  The question that was asked was, Is it OK to
try to woo someone out of a relationship and into one with you?  If the
person that you like leaves their relationship to go out with you WITHOUT
you actively persuing him/her, then go for it.  Otherwise, you shouldn't
be "helping" them decide what is best for their relationship by trying
to break them up. 

>>Other posters have tried to mitigate this by bringing up situations where
>>you "know" that the relationship is wrong for the other person, or you
>>"know" that the other person is only involved because of some falling out
>>with you.  None of that gives you the right to decide what's best for
>>another person.
>
>Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!  They should decide for themselves.  If they are
>not interested in persuing the new relationship, let THEM say, "Sorry,
>I'm involved."  Just because I might want a relationship with them, 
>doesn't mean that they now have NO choice in the matter.  Therefore,
>I can not assume the responsibility for breaking up the relationship.

Excuse me???  Excuse me...if you ask someone out, who is in a relationship
and they say yes, you are responsible for breaking them up.  Odds may be
that they would have broken up anyway, but that still doesn't excuse you
just because you gave him/her an easy way out.  It's like speeding and telling
the officer, "Well sir, they make cars that go faster than the speed limit,
so I'm not at fault."  You were the one in the driver's seat and you made
the choice (to drive fast or to ask him/her out).  May not be the best
analogy, but it gets to the point of the matter.

>>  If you think someone is making a mistake, you of course
>>have every right to make your opinion known.  But there is a big, big 
>>difference between saying, "I think you're making a mistake here", and
>>saying, "Drop this guy and come away with me because I love you more and
>>I'm better for you." 
>
>The words would be totally meaningless UNLESS the other person feels
>the same.  Why are you putting soooooooo much emphasis on what one
>might say to another who's involved in a relationship.  It doesn't mean
>shit unless BOTH people feel the same.  Just because I walk up to a
>women and say "I love you more than your boyfriend does and I want you
>to leave him for me" doesn't mean shit unless SHE feels the same way.
>Otherwise, all she has to say is "No".  And your relationship with her
>continues to remain "unthreatened".

I think you are missing the point here.  If you have alterior motives
when you are giving this *advice*, I think that is about as low as you
can go.  I this case, words do matter.  One is a matter of opinion (you are
making a mistake) and the other is a matter of manipulation (I'm better
for you than he is).

>> The former is just giving your honest opinion; the
>>latter is actively trying to entice the person away from the existing
>>relationship and toward you.  And that makes you scum.
>
>I totally disagree with you.  The fact that I approach someone with
>hopes of having a relationship with them doesn't make me anything except
>someone who tries to go after what I think is right for me.  Labeling
>me "scum" for doing so makes you dangerous.

I'd rather have this "dangerous" person as a friend than you Steve.  So,
what you are saying is that, as long as it is right for me, who I step
on along the way to get what I want doesn't matter.  As far as I'm concerned,
YOU and others like you are FAR more dangerous  than what this gentleman
is.  Sounds like you'd be an advocate of anarchy, Steve?

	Bill

---
I don't believe in the stars or the planets or angels watching from
above, but I believe there's a Ghost of a Chance, we can find someone to
love and make it last...