HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cmaeda+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Maeda)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Placing NeXTstation Slab on its Side
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:19:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BtpsoL.M4v.1
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Aug28.185850.27965@athena.mit.edu> ljva@athena.mit.edu (L. James Valverde A. Jr.) writes:
>
>I was wondering if anyone has had any experience in placing the NeXTstation slab
>on it side, next to your desk for example, as opposed to placing the monitor on
>top of it. I recall hearing somewhere that NeXT did not recommend doing this, but
>I have not read anything to that effect in the NeXTstation documentation. Any
>information would be appreciated.
>

The local hardware guru says not to since it stresses the disk.  Some
people do anyway; I don't.



-- 
Chris Maeda, Grad Student and RetroGrouch <cmaeda@cs.cmu.edu>
"A unix signature isn't a return address, it's the ASCII equivalent of
a black velvet clown painting. It's a rectangle of carets surrounding
a quote from a literary giant of weeniedom like Heinlein or Dr. Who."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: waldvoge@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch (Marcel Waldvogel)
Subject: Re: Opening any file from WorkSpace with Edit?
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:55:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.104744.9539@Princeton.EDU> tvz@zandtwerk.Princeton.EDU () writes:
>It would be nice if Alt-click-click in the WorkSpace
>would open any file with Edit, even if the default
>tool is some other application.

I don't have a solution for Alt-doubleclick, but there is still hope
for you :-). Select the document, press Command-3 and then doubleclick
on the Edit icon in the inspector.

In 3.0, you will be able ton Command-drag any document over any app's
application icon.

-Marcel
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: koelman@cuby.stc.nl (Ton Koelman)
Subject: Re: Placing NeXTstation Slab on its Side
Reply-To: koelman@stc.nato.int
Organization: SHAPE Technical Centre, NL
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 10:59:10 GMT


I do this with my SPARC II with the back facing up.
No problems so far (other than having the SPARC in the
first place but that's a different story :-))

Anyone turned a cube on its side/upside down?

--
Ton Koelman   e-mail: koelman@stc.nato.int (NeXT Mail Welcome!)
SHAPE Technical Centre, P.O. Box 174, 2501 CD  The Hague
The Netherlands  (voice: 31-70-3142429, fax: 31-70-3142111)
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Fonts from MAC -> NeXT
Date: 3 Sep 92 00:19:25 GMT
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

John Michopoulos writes

> I would greatly appreciate any help. I promisse if
> successfull to place all the fonts I got, on the archives.

Careful!  If those font programs are copyrighted (ie,
any font program from Adobe or Bitstream) then doing this
would be illegal.  Distribute a font *only* if you know
it's a public-domain font program.

'grep' for 'Copyright' in the font program file; if it's
there, the font program is copyrighted.  If it isn't,
you can't be sure.

Scott Byer                             NeXTMail: byer@mv.us.adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: billb@fnbc.com (Bill Burcham)
Subject: Which DAT Format to Adopt
Keywords: DAT,backup,tape,digital,audio,tape,mass,storage
Organization: First National Bank Of Chicago, Chicago IL, USA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 22:02:55 GMT

I think that I want to buy either an HP 35480A 5(8)Gb, or an Archive  
4352XP 2(8)Gb DAT drive for backup purposes.

1) What is your experience with the reliability, support of these two  
drives.

2) Do these use different formats.  If so, then which format would be more  
amenable to sharing data with other NeXTs, Suns, or Macs (i.e. which  
format is prevalent in the NeXT/Sun/Mac world).

Any other comments are welcomed -- I'll summarize.
--
+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
|          Bill Burcham          | "The real world is the place     |
|     Protector of the Realm     |  between your toilet at home and |
| First National Bank of Chicago |  your toilet at work."           |
|    billb@fnbc.com  (NeXTmail)  |                                  |
+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: jeramy@jeramy.en.open.de (Martin Roggon)
Subject: serachin for an adress in San Rafael, CA
Organization: News at jeramy
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 15:03:37 GMT

Hi folkes,
perhaps someone from BANG (Bay-Area-NeXT-Group) can help me out of  
this little mess.
I am looking for an adress of a Computer Dealer in San Rafael.
The shop is called Kalleens Computer Pr.
Sorry, thats all I know.....
But I think if anyone from the Bay-Area reads my article he/she
will know.
It must be a big dealer that normaly sells to stores.
During my 8-day-trip to San Franciso in April this year, a dealer in  
S.F. has managed to get an OD-Medium for me.
When I arrived at home I had to recognize, that the medium doen t fit  
into my drive :-(( Bad luck.
So what do you think, will it be possible to get the adress to send  
the medium back to the dealer ?

Thanks for your help.

Seriously ....    MARTIN     
Fido : Martin Roggon   2:245/52.7
Mail : jeramy@jeramy.en.open.de (Martin Roggon)
Tel.  : + 49  231 / 37 08 86	 
-- 
Gruss ....   MARTIN     
Fido : Martin Roggon   2:245/52.7
Mail : jeramy@jeramy.en.open.de (Martin Roggon)
From: wave@media.mit.edu (Michael B. Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Hard Drive problems (?)
Date: 3 Sep 92 07:43:41 GMT
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

In article <1992Sep2.180722.1@capd.jhuapl.edu> waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Sep2.175234.6972@nntp.uoregon.edu>, cdelay@inferno.uoregon.edu
>> (Christian De Lay) writes:
>>> I'm getting some awfully weird noises from my (406MB) hard drive in my 9  
>>> month old NeXTstation mono.  Occasionally the drive will make a high pitch  
>>> whining sound (which sounds similar to a skill saw "powering down") for no  
>>> apparent reason.  Now, I've had this machine long enough to know that this  
>>> probably isn't a normal sound for the beast to be making.
>>> 
>>> What I want to know is this: Has anyone else experienced this problem?  Are  
>>> there any known problems with NeXT's hard drives?
>>	I have a mono NeXTstation also with the 400 MB drive and I have heard a
>>	similar sound a couple of times.  Couldn't swear it's the drive,
>>	though.  Might be a fan.
>>

It's the drive.  In the beginning of its life, the Seagate 1480 (the 400 MB
drive) had a lot of such reports.  People that complained loudly had their
drives replaced.  As time went on, reports got fewer and fewer.  I had
that happen on one of my machines.  It happened 4 or 5 times.  One time
it went on for minutes so I shut the machine down, got a drink (a stiff one,
I had done enough under the covers that the warranty wasn't going to do me
any good) and started it up again.  I only heard that sound once more, and
that was months ago.  

If it's really annoying get the drive swapped, but odds are it will happen
very infrequently, and not do any harm.



-- 

-->  Michael B. Johnson
-->  MIT Media Lab      --  Computer Graphics & Animation Group
-->  (617) 253-0663     --  wave@media-lab.media.mit.edu
From: diaz@monique.me.msu.edu (Alejandro Diaz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Travelling with NeXTstation slab as check-in bagagge
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:28:05 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University


Can anyone recommend a HARD case for a NeXTstation slab suitable for  
airline check-in?

Alejandro


---
____________________________________________________________________
Alejandro Diaz			    phone	(517)353-0825 (voice)
Mechanical  Engineering			 	(517)353-1750 (fax)
Michigan State University
diaz@me.msu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: ede978e@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Robert D. Nicholson)
Subject: Re: prices on c.s.n.announce -I want a vote!
Organization: Monash University, Caulfield Campus
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:20:15 GMT

eronald@CNAM.CNAM.FR (Edmund Ronald) writes:

>I think prices are an integral part of product info. The moderator of 
>c.s.n.a seems to differ. I'm sure he's a very nice guy, I'm almost
>nice too, so I suggest we call a vote rather than have a flame war.
>Hence: Please email me your opinions, and then we'll ask the moderator
>to call a vote, if no one else does so first.

>Edmund.

I think the pricing server idea is a good one, although it still lets them
get the message accross but its better than blatant pricing information spread
across the net.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Re: Stability of Next as a company
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 18:13:14 GMT

Jim Becker writes
> 
> walking  by  the  [Computer Attic in Palo Alto]  last 
> wednesday  night  there  was  the   big  multi-color
> NeXT sign, but i really had to look deep into the store
> to spy a single NeXT on the backwall. Everything else
> was Macs.
> 

The sign has been there at least since early 1991.
C.A. sells their NeXTs at full list price, so it may not be  
surprising if they're not doing too well with it.

--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
From: matthews@oberon.umd.edu (Mike Matthews)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re:  stripping (was Ramdisk coming for NeXT)
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:10:48 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <dillon.0mci@overload.Berkeley.CA.US> dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon) writes:
>    Sounds like one huge bandaid to me.... compressed????  Are they out of
>    their mind?  It's *already* too slow!

Compare the speed of the '040 in compressing to the speed of a typical hard
disk.

>					-Matt
------
Mike Matthews, matthews@oberon.umd.edu (NeXTmail accepted)
------
"Calvin Coolidge looks as if he had been weaned on a pickle."
		-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
From: rpomeroy@aunext3.cam.amd.com (Ron Pomeroy x(Coop))
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Inherited a 486/33...
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:44:49 GMT
Reply-To: rpomeroy@aunext3.cam.amd.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1992Aug31.131316.5300@next.cambridge.ma.us> simsong (Simson L.  
Garfinkel) writes:
>>You'll want to raise it from 8MB to 16MB of memory to get decent performance.   
>>The 125MB hard disk is small; consider replacing it with a 400MB SCSI or ESDI  
>>hard drive.  (SCSI is better; you'll also want an SCSI interface.)
>>
>>The performance of your 486/33MHZ will be roughly equal to a 25MHZ color  
>>system.  Not very exciting.
>>
>>Don't buy anything until NeXTSTEP 486 is out, because the required hardware  
>>config might change.  And don't forget to add in $1000 -> $2500 to puchase  
>>NeXTSTEP 486.
>>
>>All in all, you are better of selling that machine RIGHT NOW.
>>
>>-simson
>>-- 
>>
>>.................................................................simson

****************Rumor alert********************

Reliable sources say it WILL run on a 386 machine.  Reliable sources did not  
say anything about performance.

*************End rumor alert*******************
--
Ronald Pomeroy
Advanced Micro Devices
CAM Applications Group
rpomeroy@aunext3.amd.com
From: eronald@CNAM.CNAM.FR (Edmund Ronald)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Prices on c.s.n.announce
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:44:58 GMT

Well, it's getting on midnight, I've just had an excellent bottle of
Burgundy, and thus feel in the right spirit :) to rejoin this forum.

Bluntly put, todd, moderator of c.s.n.announce is against prices. No 
matter that he be told that prices are information, that people don't
want to bother emailing or phoning companies to get them, and that 
companies are fed up with answering the one-line messages that query
for the magic dollar figures...

Todd has his arguments, and quite a few people no doubt share his
views. I and about 40 other people hold the opposite view, and would 
like todd to hold a vote. He says "no vote on pris". He says, "you
may vote on chucking me out as moderator, but nothing else".

I think there is little reason to want to throw out todd as moderator of
c.s.n.a, as he's doing a good job, apart from being a trifle obstinate
and unresponsive on this matter.

So let's find a creative solution- Here are some:
1) Archive the posts with prices added.
2) Someone (eg. the company announcing the product) posts the pricing
   info on c.s.n.m - that group can take the added bandwith!
3) We create a mailing list and FAQ for price info, with price of EVERY piece
   of NeXT software or hardware- there ain't that many :-(
4) We hold a vote on creating a group for commercial posts. If Todd's
   right than some sites won't receive it- too bad. If Todd's wrong then
   we'll find out in a hurry whethyer we really need c.s.n.a :-)

I think we ought to try all of the above 1-4 !! Please bring your
ideas to this forum, publicly. 

Edmund.

-- London graffitto: Beer can't be bought, only borrowed. --
From: isbell@cats.ucsc.edu (Art Isbell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: NeXTSTEP Release 3
Date: 3 Sep 1992 17:13:14 GMT
Organization: Cubic Solutions - NeXT software development and consulting
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <Bu0GGA.ApD@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> lemson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Lemson) writes:
>yikes@netcom.com (Jenny Doll) writes:
>
>>All the floppy does (I think!) is boot from the CDROM, just to make it 
>>easy for folks who don't want to Command~ and type the command themselves
>>I forget the syntax for booting off of the CDROM, but it's just the same
>>as any SCSI disk drive.
>
>I believe that people with ROM Monitors previous to v3.0 cannot boot
>from a CD-ROM drive with 2.x, they need the floppy to install the proper
>kernel so that they can boot from the CD-ROM.

I just tried to look at the 3.0 PR2 floppy to verify that a new kernel is being
installed from the floppy and panicked PR2 for the first time by simply
double-clicking on the .hidden file on the floppy :-(  Now the floppy is
damaged so even running fsck manually won't repair it (something about bad
magic numbers in various cylinder groups, the same error I get when I try to
format a floppy with a NeXT file system.  The same floppy formats fine using a
DOS or Mac file system, so this must be a PR2 bug.)  I've panicked PR2 twice
just trying to repair this floppy, so I give up.

For someone with the 3.0 release, can floppies be formatted with the NeXT file
system?
-- 

Art Isbell                                                      Cubic Solutions
NeXT Registered Developer #745         NeXT software development and consulting
Email: isbell@cats.UCSC.EDU                                Voice: (408)335-1154
USmail: 95018-9442                                           Fax: (408)335-2515
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: VirtSpace (Was Re: Mono Monitor Size: 17" or 16" or 15.5" ?)
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 16:59:27 GMT

Ivo Welch writes
> 
> Are there any alternative, larger (19")  monochrome monitors
> one could hook  up? I need more  screen real estate. 
> (Incidentally, the latest
> Virtspace [on nova] has become quite worthwhile.)
> 

Second that.  Great little app.  Well worth the shareware fee.

Usual disclaimers.

--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
From: rpomeroy@aunext3.cam.amd.com (Ron Pomeroy x(Coop))
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Prices on c.s.n.announce
Date: 28 Aug 92 23:18:32 GMT
Reply-To: rpomeroy@aunext3.cam.amd.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <199208281821.AA05203@cnam.cnam.fr> eronald@CNAM.CNAM.FR (Edmund  
Ronald) writes:
>>After seeing yet another $XXX.XX on c.s.n.announce the other night,
>>rather than yell or reboot my cube, I posted a call for people willing
[stuff deleted]

count my vote FOR prices
--
Ronald Pomeroy
Advanced Micro Devices
CAM Applications Group
rpomeroy@aunext3.amd.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: boyiny@kovalevskaya.mit.edu (Bo-Yin Yang)
Subject: Much Thanks, and a question about upgrading, sort of.
Organization: MIT, Department of Mathematics
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 22:59:03 GMT


Thanks to the people who have replied to me.

The problem has been corrected-- my NeXT Station now boots correctly.  I am
still at a complete_loss_ as to how it happened, since my father swore that
no one touched it during my absence.  If anyone has any ideas, please let
me know.

Meanwhile, another question....

I have the 200MB disk as the basic setup.  This means, among other things,
that I am missing emacs, TeX/LaTeX, cc/cc++ and all the
quotations/Shakespear stuff.

Having bought a big external drive, I would like to get the stuff I am
missing.  The user's manuel says that I am entitled to copy it from anyone
else who has a copy, and I have found such a friend.  The question is,
_which_ files should I go for, and where should I put them (the
path/directories) to make them work?


Adthanxvance.
Bo-Yin Yang
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: nether@wpi.WPI.EDU (Joel C Belog)
Subject: Looking for a Pspice PD or equiv commercial for NeXT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:30:41 GMT


	Hello all,
	simply, I am looking for Pspice for the NeXT.  Could you
	please send me info of what you are using, and it's 
	compatabilities with Pspice.  I would like to use it for
	one of my EE classes.

	Please send me info on any Commercial products as well.
	I do have the circuit builder app, but it isn't powerful
	enough.

	Thanks for any info.

	Joel Belog
	nether@wpi.wpi.edu
From: todd@liveware.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Coda
Keywords: NOT maybe okay so maybe they are
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:28:52 GMT
Reply-To: todd@liveware.com
Organization: Liveware Corporation   Fort Collins, CO.  USA.

In article <1992Aug31.175210.16605@tamsun.tamu.edu> daugher@cs.tamu.edu (Walter  
C. Daugherity) writes:
> Whatever happened to Coda's porting to the NeXT their super musical score
> drawing package???
> 
> --
> Walter C. Daugherity			Internet, NeXTmail: daugher@cs.tamu.edu
> Texas A & M University			uucp: uunet!cs.tamu.edu!daugher
> College Station, TX 77843-3112		BITNET: DAUGHER@TAMVENUS
> 	---Not an official document of Texas A&M---

I was told sometime ago they completely gave up on that
effort since sales in other market where strong and
the risk/benefit ratio for NeXTstep was so high...

Todd
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: USR v.32bis+fax, etc...
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:22:40 GMT

Now that USR is upgrading its modems to include fax, has anyone thought
of supporting them on the NeXT?
 
Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
philip@utstat.toronto.edu


Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: Professor WHO?
Subject: HELP!
Originator: boyiny@kovalevskaya
Reply-To: yangboy@math.ntu.edu.tw
Organization: MIT, Department of Mathematics
X-Subliminal-Message: I have fallen and can't get up!
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 22:48:20 GMT



Am having trouble with my NeXT slab (station, 32MB, 200M inbuilt-drive,
800M extern drive) upon getting home from a month-long trip.

Responses and tips greatly appreciated.  Please e-mail.

Questions:

[a]	Is it an indication of a problem on the boot disk if after "Testing
	System" the next thing to appear is "Loading from Network" and
	hang-up?  [I.e. does this indicate that the boot section is gone on
	the boot disk so the machine looks for other sources?]

[b]	How can this problem happen?  Specifically, can it occur through
	the simple mistake of turning on the main switch _before_ the power
	on the external drive (so that a power surge from the extren
	damages the internal drive)?

[c]	How much is it likely to cost to fix the drive or whatever the
	problem may be?  

[d]	{To Taiwanese users only} Who would provide reasonable service for
	such a problem?

	Advthanxance,
	Bo-Yin Yang
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: silbar@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov (Dick Silbar)
Subject: Re: Placing NeXTstation Slab on its Side
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 01:37:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.185850.27965@athena.mit.edu>, ljva@athena.mit.edu (L. James Valverde A. Jr.) writes...
# 
#I was wondering if anyone has had any experience in placing the NeXTstation slab
#on it side, next to your desk for example, as opposed to placing the monitor on
#top of it. I recall hearing somewhere that NeXT did not recommend doing this, but
#I have not read anything to that effect in the NeXTstation documentation. Any
#information would be appreciated.
# 
I posted a similar query about four months ago when our secretary got the  
SECOND NeXT in our group.  The responses were, I judged, mixed, but enough
people said things about the drive bearings going south that I/we came to
a better physical arrangement in which the slab could stay flat.

   Dick Silbar
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: shawn@monitor.com
Subject: Re: Do you want free objects from FSF?
Reply-To: shawn@monitor.com
Organization: Monitor Company / IE
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:32:40 GMT

Dave Griffiths writes
>As for a binary object library coming under GNU licence conditions, this
>is a _bad_ idea because it shuts out commercial developers and thus 
>ultimately hurts the consumer. I mean suppose someone went and developed 
>AREXX for the NeXT and then slapped a GNU licence on it - it would be 
>useless because no commercial apps would be able to use it.

Perhaps this discussion should move to c.s.n.advocacy, but.....

I think that any entrant into this marketplace is exciting and should be  
encouraged.  Competition is healthy.  If there are good FREE objects out  
there and folks start using them and NeXT's popularity increases then  
there'll be demand for RESALEABLE objects for use in COMMERCIAL apps.

I don't agree with the FSF's philosophies or the LPF's philosophies on  
what software should and shouldn't be to people, but I do think that FSF  
could provide a great jump-start in this arena, and it would benefit  
everyone in the long run. 

Go Geoffrey, Go Richard.  Make it happen.

Shawn Broderick
shawn@monitor.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Re: ModPlayer unpacking instructions needed
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 23:50:47 GMT

Stan Chesnutt writes
> I have copied the file "ModPlayer_V2.4.tar" from the sonata 
> submissions  directory.  This file contains the element 
> "ModPlayer.app.squfold".
> Both my NeXT and I are confused by the suffix "squfold".  How can 
> I create executable from this file?
> 

Use the app UnSquashOnly, available on the archives.
--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc