HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: greg@octopus.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Subject: Re: Take a break Mr. ATC
Organization: Data Parallel Systems, Inc
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:31:49 GMT

geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:

>But you >could< have said
>    "Understand cleared to land, 73M -- could you please clear me for
>     takeoff now so I can use that landing clearance?"

Reminds me of something that happened last week.  I had just departed
Indianapolis International, an ARSA, VFR.

Indy Tower:  "57E contact departure, have a good day"
57E: "57E, departure, see you"
<turn to departure, listen for a while, hear them talk to other planes>
57E: "Good morning, Indy departure, 5457E one thousand five hundred for
      three thousand."
<silence, then, after a while, I here departure talking to other
 planes again.  I try again:>
57E:  "Deeeparture, Cessna 5457E, climbing to three thousand"
Indy Departure:  "57E, Indy departure.  Remain clear of the ARSA.  What
                  can I do for you?"
57E:  "Umm, sir, that's going to be a bit hard.  I just departed
       International!"

<ta-dum!>

greg
--
Gregory Reed Travis				D  P  S  I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated   greg@dpsi.com (For MX mailers only!)
Bloomington, IN			     greg@indiana.edu (For the others)
From: Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: prevalence of engine failures
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:51:51 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

In article <1992Jul24.015854.253822@cs.cmu.edu> dst+@cs.cmu.edu
(Dave Touretzky) writes:

>Right.  I should have been more specific about what I meant by an engine
>failure.   I meant:  loss of engine power significant enough to cause you to
>want to terminate the flight, and NOT curable by some simple pilot action
>such as switching to a tank with gas in it or adding carb heat.

     Thanks.  Now I can sleep again.

>One of my two engine failures was caused by a mag failing in flight.  It
>resulted in a noticeable power loss that worsened over the next few minutes.
>I was flying alone, at night, on an IFR flight plan but in VFR conditions.
>Fortunately I was in a twin and over an airport, so it wasn't that big a
>deal.

     Lucky you.  I had my mag failure in a 182 coming down the Fraser
Canyon.  Just as we were approaching Hell's Gate I was looking at the
aerial tram and commenting to my passenger, "You know, I've always
wanted to go right down there and get a good look at..." and the
engine started sputtering.

     Landing choices around there consist of the traffic-laden
highway, the swiftly-flowing river, or trees on the side of the
nearest mountain.  I was VERY happy when I reached the open valley
at Hope, although I was able to continue to my destination with no
further problems.

Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca
"I'm cursed with hair from HELL!"  -- Night Court
From: jimm@simsol.UUCP (Jim Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: "remain clear of the ARSA..."
Date: 27 Jul 92 02:54:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: simsol.165
Organization: Systems Simulation Solutions, Beaverton, OR

In article <7480324@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com>, glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker) writes:
> 
>    "Monterey Approach Cessna 8436Z off of Carmel Valley 1000 for 4500"
> 
>    "36Z Monterey Approach remain clear of the ARSA"
> 

My guess is that what you really got is

     "36Z Monterey Approach remain clear of the ARSA until radar identified"

Usually, radar identification comes within about 1-2 minutes.  In the
meantime, you do remember how to do turns about a point don't you?  I
like ARSAs and TCAs. They are there to protect me.  I have flown
through a few in my time and have NEVER been denied access when I
really needed it.
From: greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: prevalence of engine failures
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:48:50 GMT
Organization: Data Parallel Systems, Inc

In <23293@alice.att.com> ark@alice.att.com (Andrew Koenig) writes:

>I cannot recall seeing a single documented account of a commercial jet
>aircraft in which two engines failed.

The Air Canada 767 which ran out of fuel and landed at Gimli comes to mind.
As does the (USair?) DC-9 which flamed out both engines in a hailstorm and
crash-landed on a road in Georgia, killing many.

>	a case where all three engines failed on a DC-10 due
>	to a maintenance error that was repeated on all three
>	engines; the pilot was able to restart one engine and
>	land safely.

Actually, it was a Lockheed L-1011

greg
--
Gregory Reed Travis				D  P  S  I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated   greg@dpsi.com (For MX mailers only!)
Bloomington, IN			     greg@indiana.edu (For the others)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky)
Subject: Cosmo goes to the airport
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 23:54:16 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


The August issue of Cosmopolitan has a positive, if somewhat breathless,
article on what it's like to start flying lessons.  The young woman who
wrote it said her father owned a seaplane base before she was born, and took
her flying when she was a little girl.  I didn't get to finish reading the
story (one shouldn't hold up the checkout line, right?), but it sounded like
she was enjoying her lessons.

So guys, now you have an excuse to pick up a copy of Cosmo at the checkout
counter.  When you're done ogling the scantily clad models in the ads, and
have read this month's hot sex article, see p. 122 for the aviation story.

(Women readers of this newsgroup, who may be just as embarassed as the men
to be seen purchasing a rag like Cosmo, will of course want to skip the ads
and head straight for the sex and flying.)

-- Dave Touretzky,  CFI-AIM,  Seneca N8147E (``The Grounded Beast'')
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: emergency AD 92-15-16 Any one else?
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:58:40 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

>	I just received Emergency AD 92-15-16 in the mail which
> states that I cannot fly my plane until I examine the carb 
> float and prove that it was not manufactured in 10/91.

Beech Sport, right?
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Subject: Re: United flight's cargo door?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:12:49 GMT

jaap@cs.ruu.nl (Jaap Romers) writes:

>In <1992Jul22.030335.11022@microsoft.com> joero@microsoft.com (Joe Robison) writes:

>>In article <jcmorris.711658927@mwunix> jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org wrote:

>>> The door was recovered from the floor of the Pacific at a depth of
>>> approximately 14,200 feet.  (That's roughly 440 atmospheres of pressure!)

>>Talk about your needles and haystacks...how in the world did they find it?

>Yes, I'am interested too. If they can find this door, why aren't they able
>to find a blackbox of the KAL007, which is transmitting signals....

A question of size.  The so-called "black box" has a cross-section on the
order of one or two square feet.  As I recall the UA report (which isn't
handy at this instant) the NTSB believes that the original clue which
led to the recovery of the door was a sonar echo from one of the cargo
pods which fell out of the 747.

Joe Morris / MITRE
From: TLT101@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Airshow report: Scranton/Wilkes-Barre
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:09:35 GMT
 <1992Jul20.152356.4574@bony1.bony.com>
Organization: Penn State University

Hey I liked the paint scheme, looked pretty nice if you ask me.
Wish I could have flown into the show but I was stuck driving, argh.
Only took an hour and a half to get outta the parking lot.


Tim
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Subject: Re: Suit filed against Bell Helicopter
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:02:51 GMT

In article <62673@cup.portal.com> ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes:
>
>	The court and jury determine that I am 98% responsible for the
>accident, and that Ross and Bill are each 1% responsible, and that you
>deserve $1,000,000.
>
>	So instead of allocating damages 98% to me, and 1% each to
>Ross and Bill, the court makes us, as a group, come up with $1,000,000
>for you.  Most of this comes from Bill and Ross, since they have it
>and I don't.  This gets you compensated, which is what is the important
>thing.

	Important to whom ???  Who in hell declared that the injured party
   has more rights than the partial defendant ??

	This means every product manufacturer has to cover every imaginable
   idiot on the face of the earth as a codefendant in their liability
    coverage.  And you call that FAIR ???

	What about the percantage of blame on the so called "victim".

>
>	Ross and Bill can then sue me to get try and get back the money
>they had to pay to cover my share of the damages.
>
>	This is still unfair to Ross and Bill, since they are paying out
>of proportion to their responsibility.  But someone has to get hurt in
>this, since I don't have enough to cover my share.  Since Bill and Ross
>*DID* help hurt you, it is better for them to be the ones who get hurt
>than you.

	Sorry, but this is an opinion I strongly disagree with.
Especially when in most cases you hear about, the so called victim is really
99.99% to blame for their own injuries.

	So they should only collect .01% of their claim.  If your concept is
   a lawyers idea of justice, it is time to start over.  Preferably
    without all the damn lawyers.

	Every frivolous law suit should cost the filing attorney 50% of all
    personal wealth.
-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
From: ms@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Mark Stolz)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 04:22:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Help me spend money! Plane advice needed.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

> 
> > * Piper Archer: 180 hp and simple systems.  We've heard they are nice to
> >   fly and we are going to arrange a flight sometime in the next few weeks.
> >   We both learned on Cessnas so they represent the greatest unknown.
> 
> This one violates your range requirements.  You can have full fuel or
> full passenger load...  Piper owners/lovers consider this a benefit.
> Unfortunately, an archer with the hershey-bar (all archers and below,
> actually) wing will climb like a dog with a full load in your proposed
> flight regime.  As this family grows (lbs), this airplane will
> fail to meet your needs the soonest.
> 
  Actually, Archers have the tapered wings.  It was the Warrior that
was the PA28-180 and had the hershey bar wing.  The Archer (PA 28-181)
has the taper!

> 
> The Piper PA-28-235 has enough horsepower to overcome my objections
> to load/fuel/climb performance above.
> 

   Full fuel and load ok in this plane. (If you can close the door 
it will most likely be legal!) Later than 1972 has extra room
in back (worth the feature).  The 235 burns approximately 11.5 gal/hr,
is simple from a maintenence perspective.
From: wozniak@ais1.bal.mmc.com (Agnes Wozniak)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: prevalence of engine failures
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:27:22 GMT
Organization: Martin Marietta Aero & Naval Systems

Here at MMANS we are designing the thrust reverser
for the PW4168 engines... I don't deal with the actual
testing although I do specify some instrumentation.  We
just delivered one ground test unit to be tested this fall
and will follow up with another.  These two units are installed
and the entire engine is then tested repeatedly.  
Reverser stowed, deployed, stowed, deployed.. Including ultimate
flight conditions like the one you describe, ie., inadvertent inflight
deployment.  
In a year ( I think) PW will then do flight certification where the
engine is installed on an aircraft.. I 'm not sure how
many flight hours are required for certification but
I imagine that it's quite a bit.

The FAA and its european equivalent are both involved in the
final certification process.

i tend to agree with those who say that driving is more dangerous
than flying... as a matter of statistics.  Of course, if you ask
whether I'd rather crash in a car or in a plane, that 's a different
topic!!

--Agnes
"I love to fly and it shows"


--
************************************************
*              Agnes Wozniak                   *
*    Martin-Marietta Aero and Naval Systems    *
*    Net Address: wozniak@ais1.bal.mmc.com     *
From: schinner@hp-vcd.vcd.hp.com (Jim Schinnerer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: unreliable VOR navigation
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:08:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: hp-vcd.2540036
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Vancouver, WA, USA

Granted, I have really bad radios in the Mooney, but I have seen the
"dancing needles syndrome", too.  It happens alot when I am relatively
low with respect to the station.  Distance matters a little, but altitude
is the prominant factor.

Gorman is on the top of a mountain, so even if you are high over the
Central Valley, you are low over the VOR.

I have been told that VOR's are not designed to work if you are below
them.  This could explain why I never used to get Woodside on the
ground at RHV.  Of course, I have really bad radios...

---------------------------------------------------------
Jim Schinnerer  -  PP-ASEL-IA       |  Hewlett Packard
Mooney - 350X  -  "Buster"          |  Vancouver, WA
email - schinner@vcd.hp.com         |  (206) 944-3324
---------------------------------------------------------
From: ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: QANTAS - U.S. Aircraft Carrier warnings.
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:36:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Jul23.153658.13287
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame

In article <68@newave.mn.org> john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes:
>
>Captain Rogers was worried because his ship, correctly or incorrectly, had
                                                ^^^^
>initinally identified the incomming aircraft as an Iranian F-14 Tomcat.  As

You mean identifying an Airbus as an F-14 might have been correct?  


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hakoskinen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi (Harri Koskinen)
Subject: Re: Information about Farnborough '92 needed.
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 07:05:05 GMT

In article <rog.711795080@system>, rog@speech.kth.se (Roger Lindell) writes:
> Hello,
> I am thinking about going to the Farnborough '92 exhibition
> in September and wonder if anybody has any information about
> it. I would like to know which days are open to the public and
> how you get there from London, (by bus, train or whatever). I
> would also like to know about anything that might have to be
> done before you get there, like obtaining a pass or something
> like that.
> 
Farnborough '92 Air Show will be held on 6-13 September. Sunday
6 September is the press day, 7-10 September are reserved for
trade visitors. Public days are 11-13 September. No advance
tickets are needed for public days, tickets can be bought at the
gates.

Farnborough lies about 50 kms (i.e. about one hour by train) to
south-west from London, trains leave from Waterloo station. You
should get off at Aldershot station from where there is a shuttle
bus service to the exhibition grounds. The other possibility is
to get off at Farnborough station and walk the remaining 3 kms.

You can also get to Farnborough by bus, but don't try it. It will
take much more time than by train, probably 2 to 3 hours! (I have
tried once :-( 

-----------
Harri Koskinen
freelance aviation writer
Siivet magazine
Finland
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (HOWARD PETRI)
Subject: Re: I must have done SOMETHING right
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: INDIANA U. CYCLOTRON FACILITY, BLOOMINGTON, IN
Distribution:  world
Date: 27 JUL 92 10:48:53    

In article <1992Jul27.101326.3209@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, kaye@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Kaye Stott) writes...
> 
>Just a normal day at the gliding field. I did a great check flight in the
>morning, and decided not to waste it - go and do a solo - I'm still on
>daily checks.
> 
>Jumped into the Puchacz, and we took off on aerotow. Just clear of the
>end of the runway, heading towards the town, the tow plane started to wave.
>My reactions were slow; disbelieving. Does he REALLY want me to get off???
>I was too slow - the pilot disconnected, and there was the rope, slicing back
>
Rest of great story deleted
> 
>Kaye


     Congratulations Kaye;
     It sounds like you remembered the most important thing of all and that
is not to get excited and fly the glider. That is what our emergency training
is all about. I was once waved off and I couldn't believe it either at first. 
Eventually I released, but I was over 1200 AGL and just went off and found
a thermal. The towplane engine was missing due to a fouled plug.
I am curious, could you tell us why you were waved off?  Was it
a real tow plane emergency or an exercise?

Howard
Pegasus N599JH  (EJ)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh)
Subject: Re: Travelog: Buzzing New York
Reply-To: venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh)
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown NJ
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 19:19:20 GMT

In article <9207271720.AA14500@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> PJERN@CHGVMIC1.VNET.IBM.COM writes:
>Approaching from the south, I had to duck down to 1400' about 5 miles
>short of the Verrazano Bridge, to remain under the Newark portion
>of the New York TCA.  If you lose the engine out here, folks, you're
>going swimming.  (The upside is that there is so much boat traffic,
>you won't be in the water long.)

But even a couple of seconds in the Hudson???? Yuck.

For those that feel uncomfortable being that low and wouldn't mind looking at
Manhattan from a bit above and have a Mode C transponder, go through the TCA.
They are really nice about it. If you are coming from NJ from the west, stay
below 1500' and head towards Newark airport. Call approach and ask for a
direct to the Statue. They will ask you to fly direct over the threshold of
the active at about 1500'. You can even enjoy the heavies landing and/or 
taking off. Once at the statue, you can either duck down under the TCA or
ask for a route up the Hudson.

People coming from Long Island can try the same thing with La Guardia.

>1. Pick a day with good visibility.  There's so much air traffic
>   in the area that you need visibility for safety.
>
>2. Take along another pilot the first time.  Another pair of eyes
>   is essential in airspace like this.  Remember, you're going to
>   be distracted by the scenery.

If possible go on a week day. You get to watch the scenery too. If you
really want the thrill, do it at night. Traffic is easy to spot and the
view is unbelievable. But you must really trust your engine.

venky
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: dave@lynx.mn.org (David Messer)
Subject: Hot air balloons without fuel
Organization: Lynx Data Systems
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 05:18:19 GMT

A coworker of mine just took a ride in a hot air balloon flown
by a commercial outfit.  We were talking about it and the
question came up about what happens if the burner fails for
some reason.

Assuming that the burner fails at high altitude, will the
balloon reach some equalibrium state with enough air being
forced into it as it falls to keep it inflated?  Or will
it collapse completely?  In any event, is such an accident
survivable?
-- 
The aliens are watching!  They are   | David Messer       dave@lynx.mn.org -or-
waiting for sentient life to evolve. | Lynx Data Systems  ..!tcnet!lynxds!dave
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Subject: Good pictures, was:  prevalence of engine failures
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 02:45:08 GMT

Others said
#  Hmm. My father has a real nice photo that he took out of the window of
#  a 737 showing the #2 engine reverser fully deployed...and the coast of
#  Puget Sound about 5000 feet below. Fun flight!
# 

A friend at UAL once promised, but never delivered, alas,
a picture of a five - engine DC-8.

You see, they need a way to get that spare to & from Hawaii,
and it's easier to hang it out there.....

--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
From: Brian.Horn@west.sun.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: What is an Ultralight? (was ... WANTED: Ultralight two-place)
Date: 23 Jul 1992 20:32:02 GMT
Organization: SunSoft Inc., Los Angeles, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigboy
Originator: brianh@bigboy.West.Sun.COM


Just so there is a reference:

FAR

Part 103 - Ultralight Vehicles

103.1 Applicability

	This part prescribes rules governing the operation of ultralight
vehicles in the United States.  For the purpose of this part, an utralight
vehicle is a vehicle that:
(a) Is used or intended to be used for manned operation in the air by a
single occupant;
(b) Is used or intended to be used for recreation or sport purposes only;
(c) Does not have any U.S. or foreign airworthiness certificate; and
(d) If unpowered, weighs less than 155 pounds; or
(e) If powered:
 (1) Weighs less than 254 pounds empty weight, excluding floats and safety
devices which are intended for deployment in a potentially catastrophic
situation;
 (2) Has a fuel capacity not exceeding 5 U.S. gallons;
 (3) Is not capable of more than 55 knots calibrated airspeed at full power
in level flight; and
 (4) Has a power-off stall speed which does not exceed 24 knots calibrated
airspeed.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: exumfs@exu.ericsson.se (Mark Steph, XT/DO, x7534)
Subject: Re: Dogs in Planes
Reply-To: exumfs@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:50:27 GMT

In article 152oqeINNas@agate.berkeley.edu, morishig@sizzlean.berkeley.edu (Nina Morishige) writes:
>...
>and travels with no problems in cars. Has anyone got any experience 
>flying with their dogs, or is it probably a bad idea? The other thing is
>that I have to rent planes, and I know a lot of clubs I've rented
>...
>Thanks,
>Nina

Is there a DVM on the net? I always wondered what airplane noise would
do to my blessed dachsunds' ears.  If their hearing is more sensitive
does that also mean it is more prone to damage by noise?
---
Mark Steph               | The most endangered species--The honest man
exumfs@exu.ericsson.se   | Will still survive anninilation
(yes, .se *is* in Texas) | Forming a world--State of integrity
PO Box 833875, MS L-05   | Sensitive, open, and strong
Richardson, TX 75083     |      -Neil Peart, "Natural Science"