From: Clyde.Spencer@f223.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clyde Spencer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Aussies
Date: 13 Apr 92 05:21:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/223 - The Paul Revere Net, San Jose CA

BR>From: brian@coombs.anu.edu.au (Brian)
BR>Date: 12 Apr 92 03:47:43 GMT
BR>Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
BR>Message-ID: <brian.703050463@coombs>
BR>Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns

BR>        The amount of "supervision" which most convicts recieved (and please
BR>remember in your thesis that most of the immigrants to Australiaafter about
BR>1815 were indeed free settlers, not transported convicts), was the same as
BR>the normal immigrant.  The only difference was that a transported settler
BR>could not return home - ever.

Certainly by 1815 in the US, the cultural mold as it were had been made
and was being filled with concrete.  (The same period of time that you
were receiving an influx of free settlers, the US was also.)  I suspect
the same is true for your country since you previously said that you
built your country in even less time than ourselves.  The question still
remains as to whether the origin of the laws, cultural taboos and
paradigms, and bureacracies is strongly influenced by the earliest
settlers.  I suspect that it is.

BR>>Although probably not totally germane, you did not have the equivalent
BR>>of North American wolf packs, certainly nothing like the NA grizzly
BR>>bear.

BR>        No, we don't.  We do though, have the largest collection of venomous
BR>snakes and spiders in the world.  We have in order, the second, third and
BR>fourth most venomous snakes, and we have the third and fourt most venomous
BR>spiders.  Whilst death might not take the form of a noisy bloody great hairy
BR>animal, it existed and still does, in much more common forms than anything
BR>in the US (snakes and spiders exist in the very heart of even the most
BR>developed city unlike bears and wolves).

More to the point of the ongoing discussion, is that firearms are
effective against large predators, but rather useless against spiders
and somewhat problematic against snakes.  Again, our different
environments may be responsible for a different viewpoint on the utility
of firearms.  While we have few wolves or grizzlies left, he have
inherited a respect and utilitarian appreciation for firearms.  Firearms
are to the American as swords are to the Japanese.

BR>>       It is my impression that the North American indians, particularly
BR>>the plains indians, were a great deal more war-like, and with their
BR>>rapid adoption of horses introduced early by the Spaniards, were a more
BR>>formidable adversary than the Kooris.  The first Vikings (not exactly
BR>>soft and easy going) to discover "Vineland" were apparently exterminated
BR>>by the native indians.

BR>        As I've said, after about 1815, the majority of people who arrived
BR>in Australia to settle the country were in fact free settlers, not convicts.
BR>So how does that help your thesis Clyde?

See my above point about the 1815 date.

BR>> BR> More so in some cases, its climate is much
BR>> BR> harsher than the North American continent

BR>        Yet, in summer, there is numerous edible foods growing wild, and
BR>there is abundant wildlife.  In Australia, whilst there is in fact quite
BR>a large abundance of wild foods available, whites could not recognise them
BR>as such because of their very alien appearance (remember, Australia has been
BR>isolated evolutionary for several million years).

It is your marsupial animal life that differs most from North America or
Europe.  Many native North American plants were strange to our settlers
also and probably as did Aussies the settlers depended on the natives to
identify edible plants.   However, to a hungry man anything furry looks
edible, even if it does bounce (or waltz).  Neither Yanks or Aussies
probably had particular difficulty in identifying protein.

BR>  Whilst we have, in your
BR>opinion benign winters, when compared to our summers, they are extreme,
BR>particularly to immigrants from a country where its very, very, very
BR>different.

You are using "extreme" in a relative sense.  I was using it in an
absolute sense, i.e. the difficulty of surviving.  You seem to forget
that we had common ancestors.  To those arriving in New England from
merry Old England, it was very, very, very different.


BR>>If total area of aridity is somehow important (most of your population
BR>>after all lives in coastal cities) than the point is well taken.
BR>>However, if we are concerned with extremes and the challenges brought
BR>>about the necessity to cope with hardships, I will simply ask if you
BR>>have heard of Death Valley?  Actually, much of our Western interior from
BR>>the Rocky Mountains to the Sierra Nevada is extremely arid and while it
BR>>doesn't get quite as hot as Australia in the summer it get considerably
BR>>colder in the winter.  It is a hostile environment!

BR>        So?  You have colder winters, we have much, much hotter summers.

Everywhere except the coastal cities where most of your population still
lives!

 * SLMR 2.1a * Where there's a will there's a way.


3
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Clyde Spencer
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