HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mattb@ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Whalers trade Holik for Burke & Weinrich
Date: 29 Aug 92 23:39:34 GMT
Reply-To: mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Organization: Cabletron Systems INc.

Didn't see it mentioned yet.  Sean Burke is no relation to Brian Burke, to
my knowledge. Interesting to me as a PC grad that Brian's first deal was
with his old coach Lou L. I remarked before that I thought Sean was a head
case. Maybe that's too strong, but he obviously had problems after his first
stellar year.  Maybe it went to his head, but he hasn't been the same since.
Don't know what Lou expects to do with Holik, but it looks like Brian improved
the Whaler's backline some with this deal.  Weinrich is pretty solid.

I think it is kind of too bad for Pieterangelo, but maybe they'll split the
games now that 'Dorky Wits went in the expansion draft.

Matt
So are we gonna here from some Whaler fans this season, now that they can
beat up on Ottawa?
From: mattb@ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Pool Results/Corrections
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:06:42 GMT
Reply-To: mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Organization: Cabletron Systems INc.

(Gary James Patalsky) writes:
>I probably made a mistake by putting Jagr first on the right wing depth
>chart.  Eddie Johnson might change the lines up, which would affect the
>positioning of the depth chart.  In addition, my dynasty article might
>sound to be "simple" and "biased", but the Pens are going to tough to
>beat in the playoffs for at least the next two years and have a
>legitimate chance of winning 4 Cups in a row.

Now you're talkin', Gary.  You are absolutely right here about the Pens
being tough.  It is hard to repeat as champs in any sport.  The Pens went
through a lot last year, and they proved that they are a gutsy team that
can win in ways other than scoring the last goal.  As much as some people
have hit on Mario about injuries and diving, he is a fine player and a
leader.  Could be tougher this year, with the Rangers on a spending spree,
and a revitalized Philly.

Don't appologize for putting Jagr first.  You said it was a depth chart,
not the line combos, and I read that (mostly) as ranking the best players at
each position, not matching linemates.  I'd put Jagr slightly above Tocchet
for his speed, moves, and strength with the puck, but rank Tocchet higher
for experience, grit, and hitting. Both darn good players.  Still can't
buy your claim of Jagr as 2nd best active player (or did you mean 2nd 
best right wing? couldn't tell from your article).  My comment on Murphy
waasn't on Murphy himself.  He is also very good, and I believe he is
part of what changed the Pen's from just a scoring machine to an all around
solid team. My Stanton/Paek comment was too harsh, in retrospect.

I also didn't think Barrasso was best in the playoffs, but he was good enough
when it counted, and that is what counts.  Wregget isn't the strongest back-up,
but weak backups haven't stopped the Pens in the past 2 years.

Anyway, I just wanted to give credit where due.  r.s.h can be a tough audience,
and Pen's fans are easy targets, being on top.  They're still not as great
as the Oilers or Islanders at their best (to say nothing of the best Habs),
but anybody who denies the potential is kidding themselves.  

Matt
So, now that Big Red is gone, are the Pens bimbo-less?
From: IO11330@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (the DM)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: TRADE RUMOR
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:13:59 GMT
 <1992Sep3.174608.1044@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>
Organization: University of Maine System

Watch out, if Montreal gets Macinnis they could be a contendor again...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: hoebel@cs.rochester.edu (Lou Hoebel)
Subject: Re: ESPN Followup
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:23:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.160022.4023@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> stanm@comm.mot.com writes:
>In article 27548@cs.rochester.edu, hoebel@cs.rochester.edu (Lou Hoebel) writes:
>>
>>
>>I'm not sure that this is a great deal for hockey fans that already get
[deleted stuff about a stoic existence and random TV hockey]
>>
>
>(sarcasm on, for the humor impaired)
>Oh, super, you're in the home of the #1 TV market in America and you
>can get any game you want at your beck and call. Clearly you don't 
>need ESPN. Besides, you've got a 3 in 24 chance of seeing a team in
>the Stanley Cup anyway.
>(sarcasm off)
Oh contraire mon ami !
I live in a sleepy little village in upstate new york. ( lots of cheap
ice rinks and plenty of ice time!!) Lets see, theres the public rink
a half mile down the hill and the college rink a half mile up the hill.
Theres th erink a half mile from work....but only 1 rink up all summer!!
and its almost 5 miles away...and only three pickup games a week!!

Now about our NHL hockey coverage....It just seems that my Cable Co. is very
hockey oriented...plus having a Candian pickup. I just wish that the Buffalo
games were on...sometimes a college game is on...til it gets preempted.
If I lived in the BIG town here ( Rome NY) I'd get the Bruins channel
too!! So I don't have it as good as some.......

[now where is that sarcasm switch...Oh SARcasm !...I though t you said...] 
>
>It's really for the rest of us, even here in Chicago, that ESPN's
>contract will be a godsend. Maybe even a few Hawks home games, if
>Dollar Bill can keep his hand off the blackout remote.
>
>Don't knock it until you try it. There are a number of closet hockey
>fans "Down South", partner, and it had been a number of years since
>the Altanta Flames left town. If the NHL does it right, and early 
>indications say they may be doing just that, the South may be a 
>goldmine of viewers who don't want to watch basketball in the winter.
I spent a weeek in Houston this past month...gawd awful weather.
When they finish the ban on Freon you all just might have to move north!!
Alabama ain't no better, neither! Speaking of Houston and closets...well,
maybe not...this is a family show, right mom...and all the little Kiddies.

gotta run....game tonight and I want to be in shape
when my "department" games begin....those faculty are such goons!


>
>>Orgeon? Washington? Idaho? The NHL could get better viewing numbers
>>in Europe on tape delay. Do people in Connecticut even watch ESPN?
>>
>
>Sarcasm is wearing thin. Must be ...
>
>>.....now onto my second cup of coffee
>
>I rest my case.
you got a whole case of it?  wanna to share?


-- 
->Louis Hoebel
  Computer Science Department 	hoebel@cs.rochester.edu
  University of Rochester       {ames|rutgers}!rochester!hoebel
  Rochester NY 14627            716 275 5414
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell)
Subject: NHL on ESPN deal is official
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:46:14 GMT

ESPN announced that it stuck a television deal with NHL. It announced that
it would televise up to 37 playoff games and ALL of the Stanley Cup finals.
I forget the number of regular season games it would cover.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
BRI FARENELL			  |	"Hockey must be a great game to
CLARKSON '95			  |       survive what the NHL has done	
FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU  | 	 to it."
rec.sport.hockey's AHL contact	  |    ---Howard Baldwin, Penguins owner
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
         CONGRATS TO 1992 CALDER CUP CHAMPION ADIRONDACK RED WINGS!!
                       (also: 1981, 1986, 1989)
 		          			


Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey,rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara)
Subject: Re: Which Team is More Popular:NBA or NHL?!
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 15:27:27 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

>
>I may be biased, but most people in Chicago could care less about the
>Blackhawks.  They don't care about the Hawks for the same reason that kids
>grow up loving the Cubs.  TELEVISION.  The screwball NHL (and the greedy
>ass of an owner of the Hawks)  don't understand that they would make a lot
>more money if the games were televised.  Sure, the Blackhawks do sell out
>games because there is a core following.  However, most people know little
>about them and care even less.
>
>If the NBA is more popular than the NHL, it is undoubtedly due to TV
>exposure, or the lack thereof.
>

...most people in Chicago could care less about the Blackhawks....
You are clearly wrong here.....I went to school near Chicago for two years,
and I dealt with people from all backgrounds. The Hawks have a HUGE
following in the Chicago area...I think a core following was far too
weak of a statement. 

Of course with GOD playing in their town too, Chicago fans go crazy 
for the BULLS too. I'd still give the edge to basketball, but hockey
has very strong roots in Chicago. And plenty of fans in and out of the
city. 

In fact, one of the NHL's most popular jerseys that you see around the
US is the Hawks.

				Marty
From: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: ESPN Followup
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:32:56 GMT
Reply-To: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Rochester Hockey Science Dept.


In article <1992Sep3.122302.27548@cs.rochester.edu> hoebel@cs.rochester.edu (Lou Hoebel) writes:
>I'm not sure that this is a great deal for hockey fans that already get
>good coverage. It might be good for places like Tampa or SanJose that
>don't have decent coverage. Last year I had great viewing options.
>SportsChannel NY gave me NYI, NJ and MSG gave me the Rangers. We also
>get HNIC. SOme occasional late games from from SC Chicago and their
>wonderful anchor at his wonderful set. A choice of over 10 games a week
>and almost every night! wife? child? thesis? my job....? huh? what?

I'd not thank you for the Islanders and Devils games. Jiggs and Eddie
for the former, Peter McNobb (sic) for the latter (Gary Thorne's ok).
MSG gets blacked out here, and I think we saw 1 SC Chicago game
outside the playoffs. I'd rather have a decent game-of-the-week and
some local (ie. Sabres[*] in my case) games at other times. Sure the
SCNY games were hockey, but it really hurt to watch. Made me
appreciate the playoffs though, at least when I got to see them over
the Mets preseason games. The prospect of "the network's trademark
cutins and updates" (from the Clarinet report about ESPN) sounds
great, compared to the Long Island "cone of silence" we got in the
Islanders games.  The "Nobody beats the Wiz" out-of-town scoreboard
doesn't count as an "update".

[*] Of course, the Sabres and NFSN or whatever it's called now are so
fucking greedy that they want a fortune from our cableco to get the
games, so we won't have the local coverage again. So much for promoting
the game in the area and developing a following. Still, I only watch
to see the Sabres lose to the Habs or Bruins anywa...

George
-- 
George Ferguson                 ARPA: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu
Dept. of Computer Science       UUCP: rutgers!rochester!ferguson
University of Rochester         VOX:  (716) 275-2527
Rochester  NY  14627-0226       FAX:  (716) 461-2018
From: patrick@is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Baldwin in Hartford (Was: Re: Bowman says no)
Summary: Harpoon the Happy Whale!
Date: 28 Aug 92 06:05:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Rice University

In article <webI06a00WBLQ5lVdC@andrew.cmu.edu> Paul Andrew Platosh <pp21+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>>  All Baldwin was was one of the majority owners of
>>the Whalers, back when they were still the New England Whalers in the WHA
>>and they were sharing the Garden with the Bruins...
>
>Like I said, I'm a fan of the Hartford Whalers, of the NHL - not the New
>England Whalers of the WHL.

Evidently not, since the New England Whalers played in the WHA, not the WHL.
Still, they're the same franchise, and they *did* win a WHA title in the
Garden in '73.

>>The original one from '72 -- green and white with a little gold trim -- was
>>no slouch, either...:-)
>
>Well, the happy whale was kinda sappy....

On the shoulders, it was passable -- there, it was just a mystery blob.  As a
logo, though (and the "happy whale" *was* used as their logo for a couple of
seasons in the WHA), it sucked -- big time...

-- 
Patrick L. Humphrey  (patrick@is.rice.edu)  Rice Networking & Computing Systems
     +1 713 528-3626 at Rice. 776-1541 at home. 667-6554 at Palace Lanes. 
                                 Power corrupts.
                          Absolute power is kind of neat.
From: patrick@is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Baldwin in Hartford (Was: Re: Bowman says no)
Summary: Say what?
Date: 27 Aug 1992 05:59:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Rice University

In article <Yeaz1Vy00WBLE6q4d6@andrew.cmu.edu> Paul Andrew Platosh <pp21+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Being an avid fan of the Whalers all my life, I can tell you that rsh
>does exist in Hartford.  I'm not sure if Baldwin was ever connected with
>the Whalers organization, but recently fired GM Eddie Johnson was good
>friends with Baldwin, since he spent a number of years in the Pittsburgh
>organization.

Just how old *are* you?  All Baldwin was was one of the majority owners of
the Whalers, back when they were still the New England Whalers in the WHA
and they were sharing the Garden with the Bruins...

>==Paul
>P.S. What do you guys think of the new Whalers uniform - kinda catchy, no?

The original one from '72 -- green and white with a little gold trim -- was
no slouch, either...:-)

-- 
Patrick L. Humphrey  (patrick@is.rice.edu)  Rice Networking & Computing Systems
     +1 713 528-3626 at Rice. 776-1541 at home. 667-6554 at Palace Lanes. 

               They never understood me at the Home, either...
From: jt@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Sebastian Theriault)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: NHL rules book
Date: 27 Aug 92 09:58:11 GMT
Reply-To: jt@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Sebastian Theriault)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh


Hi there,
there's been a lot of talk about the new NHL rules. Is there an official
NHL rules book available to the general public? I have a friend who is
a ref for some oldtimers league in Hull (across the river from Ottawa,
not the English Hull!) and he told me about some hockey rules that I
had never heard about. It would be interesting to see the weird rules
that are seldom used.

--
Jean-Sebastien Theriault               "This is my signature quote."
jt@dcs.ed.ac.uk                                            -me
Organization: Freshman, H&SS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:50:14 -0400 
From: Paul Andrew Platosh <pp21+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Baldwin in Hartford (Was: Re: Bowman says no)
	<BtMoMp.I3u@rice.edu>
Distribution: na


>  All Baldwin was was one of the majority owners of
>the Whalers, back when they were still the New England Whalers in the WHA
>and they were sharing the Garden with the Bruins...

Like I said, I'm a fan of the Hartford Whalers, of the NHL - not the New
England Whalers of the WHL.

>The original one from '72 -- green and white with a little gold trim -- was
>no slouch, either...:-)

Well, the happy whale was kinda sappy....
==Paul Platosh
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: Re: 2 New Rules ???
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:33:24 GMT

In article 714854882@craft.camp.clarkson.edu, farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell) writes:
>pyacm@trentu.ca (A Colin Morton) writes:
>
>>In article <1766@hsdndev.UUCP> nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder 432-4219) writes:
>>>Can't wait for NBA-like 2 1/2 minute TV timeouts to be introduced to
>>>NHL by ABC.
>
>>This already happens in televised games.  All it means is that teams get
>>a little extra time to make shift changes during the stoppage.
>
>A little extra time, maybe, but 2 1/2 minutes?!!! I think the break is more
>like 30 seconds or a minute.

You wish. As long as US network TV and commercials are involved, be prepared
for slightly longer breaks in action. The 2.5-minute break is not as far-fetched
as PPV Mark envisions. ;)

I didn't realize how long those breaks in NFL football were until I went to
a Chicago Bears preseason game last weekend. Sure, give the players a break,
but I would guess that the long break sometimes takes the momentum away from
the team on a roll. 

Same idea for the NHL. Then again, I always seem to miss the first pitch after
a commercial break in baseball after every half-inning, so what's missing
the faceoff after a break? Hmm...



***********************************************************************
--Stan Macasieb (stanm@comm.mot.com)              | He comes up shooting
--Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector           | AND A SAAAVE BY
--Schaumburg, IL (just another suburb of Chicago) | BELFOUR!
***********************************************************************
From: 11dmcvay@gallua.gallaudet.edu (Daniel T. McVay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Speaking of Ulf...
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:40:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: gallua.1992Aug28.134059.1
Organization: Gallaudet University

In article <Btp5KH.1x9.1@cs.cmu.edu>, lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico) writes:
> KDKA TV reported last night that Ulf Samuelsson will undergo knee surgery and
> will miss at least 4 weeks of training camp.  The report didn't say which knee
> required surgery or what type of surgery would be performed.
> 
> Lori 
> Contact for the Penguins
> lli+@cs.cmu.edu
> 
> 
> 
-- 
Daniel Mcvay	11dmcvay@gallua.gallaudet.edu	11dmcvay@gallux.gallaudet.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Concrete Shoes,Cyanide,TNT,Done Dirt Cheap,Neckties,Contracts,HIGH Voltage
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Baldwin in Hartford (Was: Re: Bowman says no)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:51:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.143533.27822@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>But Baldwin was a sleazy character even back then.

OK, Gerald, then it shouldn't be hard for you to tell us what sorts of
things he did that you regard as sleazy.

I don't know whether he is or not, but there have lots of claims around
here that Baldwin is sleazy without any scrap of evidence to back them up.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com



Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell)
Subject: Re: 2 New Rules ???
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:48:02 GMT

pyacm@trentu.ca (A Colin Morton) writes:

>In article <1766@hsdndev.UUCP> nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder 432-4219) writes:
>>Can't wait for NBA-like 2 1/2 minute TV timeouts to be introduced to
>>NHL by ABC.

>This already happens in televised games.  All it means is that teams get
>a little extra time to make shift changes during the stoppage.

A little extra time, maybe, but 2 1/2 minutes?!!! I think the break is more
like 30 seconds or a minute.
From: assist@orion.oac.uci.edu (ASSIST Coordination Site)
Subject: KINGS: Pat Conacher
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:43:31 GMT
 


The Kings just made a deal with the NJ Devils for Pat "Bucky" Conacher
for future considerations.  Does anyone have any background information
on this player?


Kris
GO KINGS!!

--
From: dougm@hal.com (Doug Moran)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Notes from a Tyro (was Re: A progresive NHL on the verge of stardom?)
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:11:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: hal.1888slINN1j9
Reply-To: dougm@hal.com (Doug Moran)
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.; Campbell, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gizmo.hal.com
In-reply-to: arbogastw@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast)

In article <arbogastw.4.0@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu>, arbogastw@vaxb (Warren Arbogast) writes:
>To make the game "work" on US network TV and bring the NHL huge dollars, 
>we'll need to lose a few Canadian teams for some Southern and Western US 
>cities, give up the red line to speed up the game and increase scoring for 
>the mass US public, condense the three periods concept to "two halves," and 
>constantly stop the game for mindless beer and car ads.

As a newcomer to the hockey scene (that's right; another Sharks fan), I
don't agree.  I think hockey is fast-paced and exciting the way it is,
despite the often low scores.  The fact that ties count for total points
mean that teams like the Sharks --  who probably won't be contending any
time soon -- have, even late in the game, a chance for a tie.  (Except
against the Penguins, who seem to have taken a vow to blow out the
Sharks at every opportunity.)  You don't expect a 12-9 slugfest in
baseball every single game, and yet baseball continues to be popular.
And I personally find the three periods a refreshing change from
quarters/halves.  Despite the three periods, most hockey games don't
last any longer than most football games.

I *do* think that expanding into deeper into the US is a good idea,
though; 250 million people, most of them in an untapped market from the
hockey perspective.  A vigorous effort by the NHL to market itself and
promote youth hockey would go a long way towards increasing its
popularity.  Heck, the Sharks hadn't even been playing a month, and I
started to see kids playing street hockey on my street!  Recreation
leagues, high school leagues -- the potential is there.
-- 
    Doug Moran        | A worldwide shortage of #2 pencils has left many tech
   dougm@hal.com      | writers unable to take notes or doodle during meetings,
 {...}!hal.com!dougm  | forcing them to pay attention or end the meeting by
 HaL Computer Systems | flinging live poisonous insects at the other attendees.
Organization: Senior, IM - H&SS Track, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 11:54:25 -0400 
From: Albert Peter Michael <am3z+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Rule changes

So it's okay to get knocked loopy running into the boards without a
helmet or something, but not okay to get whacked by someone else? 

I suppose Tocchet, Stevens, and Ulfie will get to leave the games before
everyone else now. I hope they just follow Greg Lloyd's example - "I'm
not going to let some stupid rule get in the way of how I play the game."

GO MURPH!
Al
From: v057p7nk@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Andrew W Korbut)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Sam Adams ->was: TEAMS TO WATCH (Sabres - better watch quickly)
Date: 28 Aug 92 03:40:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.hockey
Distribution: na
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <4881@balrog.ctron.com>, mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matt Brown) writes...
> 
>And what possible connection could beer have to hockey?
> 
>Matt

You're joking, right?  Please tell me you just forgot the smiley...

 Dr.D [The Devils Advocate]        "Drinkin' & women & guns don't mix..."
 v057p7nk@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
 awkorbut@acsu.buffalo.edu                      - Mark Arm
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Mo' money, mo' money
Keywords: Barrasso's contract
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:02:21 GMT

In article <Bu09Ey.1Ix.1@cs.cmu.edu> lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico) writes:
>
>According to a report on KDKA-TV, WPXI-TV and a published report in USA Today,
>Barrasso has signed a 3 year deal worth 5.2 million.
>
>Does that figure make him the highest paid goalie in the league?
>

Depends how it is split up, but yes...Fuhr and Roy are getting $1.6
million this year, I think, or will by the end of their current
contracts.

By the way, was it my imagination, or wasn't the NHL crying poor
four months ago? 

For the record, Barrasso isn't worth that much money...

Gerald

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey