HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Israel Apartheid????
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:43:01 GMT

abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad) writes:


>I am sure both sides can dig up tomes that support or refute whether 
>there ever was a 'state of Palestine'.  Fortunately the issue is 
>irrelevant:  What we have, by any standard, is a group of people with
>a unique cultural background who call themselves 'Palestinians', who
>believe they are 'Palestinian', and who live in an area of land made
>up of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.  They currently live
>under military occupation by Israel (the Israeli government considers
>the West Bank and Gaza as Occupied Territories), and they do not want
>to become part of Israel.  Again by any standard, these people have
>a right to self determination.

There are numerous other "peoples" with far greater claims to
self-determination than the Palestinian Arabs--the Kurds quickly come
to mind--who nobody seems to care about.

If the Palestinian Arabs really want self-determination, rather than
the destruction of Israel, they might start with some confidence
building measures, like ceasing to stab innocent Israeli civilians in
the back, and start negotiating seriously.  They might also talk to
the guy in charge of 3/4 of Palestine, you know, that little king.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
Subject: AIDS: God's Mercy to "MY" Sheikh Cousin
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 20:09:23 GMT

   With eyes full of tears, shattered heart and trembling hands,
I sadly break the terrible news about the unfortunate death of
"my" cousin Sheikh Sabah Saud Il-Jabir Is-Sabah by the AIDS
monster after two years of medical treatment in a hospital in
a Parisian suburb.

   I wish the family of the deceased moral strength and courage
and remind them that he will be happy living in the Gardens of
Heaven after his herein ordeal was the atonement of any misdeads
he might have committed unintentionaly.

   I also urge wealthy people to contribute generously to fight
this horrible monster, AIDS, that is restricting human happiness
and freedom. It is finally them, the elite, who will be the
ultimate benifitors.

** iNA liLAhi wa iNA ilayhi rAji^On.

** Better safe than sorry.
                           Bulbul and Your Family Doctor
From: walid@dhvx20.csudh.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Programs to Study Arabic
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:52:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: dhvx20.1992Nov9.145232.1
Organization: CSU, DOMINGUEZ HILLS

Does anyone know of any arab government sponsered program which provides
Arab Language education for Arab descendents who are weak in the arabic
language. I vagualy heard of a program in Jordan where they allow
Arab-Americans to study arabic at the University in the summer for free.
If anyone knows of this or any program similar please forward any information
to me. 
Shukran
Walid
L.A.
From: marwang@caip.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Dear Egyptians (The Israeli SPY)
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:29:49 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:

>I agree that Arabs are not always described fairly in the Western
>(especially US) film industry. But I don't think it has a lot to do
>with racism, anti-Islam sentiment or anything of that sort. It has
>to do with the fact that the US had its share of clashes with 
>Arab/Muslim states/organizations.

I agree. However, the only instances that there had been clashes between
moslem/arab groups and the US is israel-related. the moslem/arab
people have the blame of creating the illegal state of Israel in
the heart of the arab land. Had there been no Israel I do not 
beleive that there would have been clashes between the
Israeli-driven-american-interests and the moslem/arab interests.
What I said includes clashes such as terrorism/herowism attacks by
moslem/arab gorilla and may even include the iranian hostages.

Most of the moslem/arab individuals blame the US/western world for
the creation/incubation of the illegal state of Israel. Had there
been no support to Israel on their part, there would have been
no clash between the interests of the two.

______________________________________________________________________________
                                                                             _
Marwan Gharaybeh:                         ||                               _(_ 
                                          ||               | |               |
Better Known as ...                       ||    ()         | |               |
                                          ||           _   | |      .-     | |
Hadi el-gossah gossat hamdah ...          ||      \___/ \__/ |      (_|____/ |
Hamdah, el-rimsh elly yitehaddah ...      ||       |  \_/    |        |      |
galat mareedak ...                        ||  \___/      /   |   \___/    *  |
mareedak, lo tethbahnee be`eedak mareedak.||            /
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: Attila@Huns.Desert.Tartar
Subject: Re: Who is Crepin-Leblond
Organization: Not really an Organization, more a Disorganization.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:47:01 GMT

In article <nabeel.721073312@oracle.sce.carleton.ca> nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul) writes:
>mmg@doc.ic.ac.uk (M M Ghanem) writes:
>
>>Well, He is a networking expert, well known for compiling several FAQs
>>for networks and internet !
>
>>Moustafa
>
>   So that is why someone forged the article in his name. But
>the forger (not an expert) did not know that there is no direct
>connection between Imperial College and Ohio State University,
>also forgot to override the Sender: field. Also the forger
>used a non-existing account as the source of the article.
>
>   The forger is from Ohio State University.
>
>**

     Wow! This discussion on Forgery really got me going! It's quite mind
tickling to try to figure out how one can write things in the name of others.
Not too noble though. Anyways, I thought I'd give it a try! Anybody out there
ready to take the challenge and try to trace me back? (No, No, there's nothing
to win, It's all for the sake of amusement - puzzles).

     Attila. (P.S. Anyone remembers the name of my horse?)


Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: y41@aix320a.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Jafr bin Haza)
Subject: Arab Unity
Organization: University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 17:10:48 GMT

Keywords: 


Kaf Halek?

Can someone tell me why lebanese have their own newsgroup?  How can
Arabs stick together with such nonsense?  The last time I checked
Lebanese were Arabs????  



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jafr bin Haza                            Universitt Heidelberg
EMAIL: y41@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de       Heidelberg, Germany 
            "God is dead." - Nietsche    "Nietsche is dead." - God
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Oct 1973: Yom Kippur War (To Husam)
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:28:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.013739.28374@nysernet.org>, astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
|> 
|> One of the greatest tragedies of the Arab vendetta against Israel, in
|> additional to the tremendous loss of life on both sides, is the
|> tremendous price both the Arabs and Israelis have paid in lack of
|> progress, the tremendous resources that have been diverted to warfare
|> (on the part of the Arab states) and defense (on the part of the
|> Israelis) that could have benefitted both their populations if put to
|> productive use.
|> 
|> Obviously, the Israelis have had no choice, since they had to either
|> defend themselves or be destroyed;  but for the Arab states Israel is
|> really a minor piece of real estate, and they've paid a heavy price to
|> try to destroy something so irrelevant in the scheme of things.
|> -- 
|> Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org

If Israel had a choice, I wonder why they have chosen to paint such a grim
picture of the Arabs and their culture so that the west feels a pitty for
Israel and make the Arabs look like warmongers.

I think now adays you may not have any choice, Israel can no longer keep its
succesful strategy a secret and no longer has great minds like Ben-Gurion,
Golda Meyer, and Moshe Dyan.

A.Faris
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:4891 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:520
From: carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso)
Subject: Re: Oct 1973: Yom Kippur War (To Husam)
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 06:19:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.203622.14100@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au  writes:
>
>Israel is backed up by fort Knox, how could yoy go bankrupt?. Also the oil

Israel is *not* "backup by fort Knox".
The US gives Israel $3billion per year.  Much of that in loans.
After the yearly loan portion is repayed the amount is only $1.7billion.
Of that money, the US demands Israel spend the most of it on US products.
So in the end, The US only gives Israel $0.3 billion that doesn't go back to 
the US.

>supply that Israel gets from the US is propably cheaper than pumping it from
>the Sinai.

Israel gets its oil mostly from buying it in Rudterdame in Holland on
the essentially black market.


roger
From: fkittred@spchp13.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood and the Copts
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:10:11 GMT
	<1992Nov5.040250.26218@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>
	<Bx988s.8tA@newsflash.concordia.ca>
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., 10 Molton Street, Cambridge, MA
	02138
NNTP-Posting-Host: spchp13.bbn.com
In-reply-to: ilyess@Davinci.Concordia.CA's message of 5 Nov 92 17:50:52 GMT


I am interested in the offical (or unoffical) position of the Muslim
Brotherhood in regards to civil rights for Copts.  Anyone out there
know what it is?

regards,
fletcher

--
/* Fletcher Kittredge
 * BBN Software Products
 * 150 CambridgePark Dr,  Cambridge, MA. 02140
 * 617-USE-FINK  /  fkittred@bbn.com  /  fkittred@das.harvard.edu
 */
From: carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: PALESTINIANS
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:08:11 GMT
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.

What are the differences between arabs and palestinians,
other than that palestinians lived in palestian?
I want to know if there are culture differences, language differences, etc.
Why are they a people?


roger
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout)
Subject: Re: ARAB UNITY
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:17:24 GMT

In article <26313@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes:
> 
> >-THE GULF PEOPLE WHO BELEIVE THAT USA IS GOD AND THEIR SAVIOUR
> 
> Most of the Gulf Arabs I've talked to are grateful that the US
> will defend them, when they really can't count on Arab or Muslim
> countries to do this.  If they could trust other Arab or Muslim
> countries to help them in a time of need then I'm sure that they
> would be much less dependent on the US. 
 And look look at how,
> just because of jealousy, most of the Arab and Muslim world
> cheered on Saddam as he raped and pillaged Kuwait.
> 
>

Dave,

The Saudi's were offered hundreds of thousands of Muslim Mujahideen from
Afghanistan to Protect Saudi Arabia and fight Saddam. This was before they
decided to ask US and multinational troops to come. Remember those Mujahideen are
trained to fight soviet made armies and they actually defeated the Russians in
their country and the Russians were near their supply lines with no embargo and
lots and lots of weapons. 

Still those gulf people that are thankful to US should be shameful that they
cannot even rely on their armies to defend their countries. Although they have
the resources and the money to build capable and technologically advanced armies,
they asked US to interfere. In Islam a basic principle is that you should prepare
whatever you can to be strong and then go into battle (once you do this you may
not even have to go to battle since the ennemy will be afraid) and the results
are with Allah.

So you see, if Kuwait had prepared an army capable of defending it, it won't have
needed US or even Egypt to help defend it.
 
> >           ************
> >
> >THE ONLY SOLUTION IS THE ISLAMIC UNITY
> 
> Yeah, Muslims were really united in decrying the rape and pillage
> of Kuwait and Kuwaitis, weren't they?  Do you want them to be
> 100% united in cheering on the rape and pillage of a Muslim-majority
> country?  I know there were some dissenters, but maybe the fundamentalists
> in Egypt can kill them, too...
> 
>

Dave, if you look back and se you will find that the leaders of the Muslim
movement around the world were the first to denounce the invasion of Kuwait. Thy
also were acting hard to prevent any war and convince Saddam to pull out. They
also (Muslim Activists in Kuwait) led the defense forces and operations against
the invading army. Yes, as a Muslim I deplore what Saddam did and I wasn't
cheated by his slogans. Yet, I am shameful that one billion Muslims with all the
resources they had and all the armies they have could not have defended Kuwait
and Saudi Arabia against an agressor but they needed the "New World Order" to
come into their countries, ruin one of their most important countries (Iraq) and
kill of them a number that only Allah knows how big it is.

rached
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: o.CRepin-leblond@ic.ac.UK (Olivier M.J. Crepin-Leblond, Olivier M.J. 
      Crepin-Leblond)
Subject: Re: Who is Crepin-Leblond
Organization: Imperial College, London, UK.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:06:03 GMT

>From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
>Subject: Re: Who is Crepin-Leblond
>Message-ID: <nabeel.721276111@oracle.sce.carleton.ca>
>Date: 9 Nov 92 02:28:31 GMT

[...]

>   I am not complaining, I just know my limits. And by the way, what took
>you two months of investigation [sic], took other readers a glance. I
>always, deliberately leave signs in the articles I "forge" that the
>article is not real. Once in another newsgroup, the readers thought I
>was kidding when in an article I said it is not authentic. I do not do
>it to twist facts as I claimed in a recent post. Hang on and you will
>see that I am not kidding.

It did NOT take me two months of investigation to find-out that you
were forging posts under an imaginary Kuwaiti address. When you
offended Egyptians on this list I just looked back and took a
few examples. By the way, your admitting of the fact that you
"forge" goes against all the denials that you previously posted. 
Tsk.. Tsk...



-- 
Olivier M.J. Crepin-Leblond, Digital Comms. Section, Elec. Eng. Department
 Imperial College of Science, Technology and Medicine, London SW7 2BT, UK
       Internet/Bitnet: <foobar@ic.ac.uk> - Janet: <foobar@uk.ac.ic>

Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:4757 soc.culture.turkish:11351 soc.culture.pakistan:16443 soc.culture.afghanistan:1184
From: rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout)
Subject: Re: ARAB UNITY
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:25:50 GMT

In article <BxMvs4.B01@unix.amherst.edu>, ddsokol@unix.amherst.edu (D. DANIEL SOKOL) writes:
> 
> How should Christian Lebanese feel about Islamic Unity where Christians will
> undoubtedly be discriminated against and persecuted for their religious 
> beliefs.
> Danny Sokol-Amherst Colleg
i

Danny,

Please before saying something about 1 billion people and their tolerance towards
other religions please study history. How can you be certain that Christians will
be persecuted and discriminated against in an Islamic State ?
Did you study the Islamic law regarding Non-Muslims in an Islamic State ?
Did you study the history of Non_Muslims in an Islamic State ?
I refer you to the history of Jews in Spain and how their golden age was under
the Muslims and how they were persecuted along with Muslims by the spanish
inquisition (sp?)


rached
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf)
Subject: Re: Israel Apartheid????
Organization: WEITEK Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 00:45:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.144503.13134@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
>
>to either America or Latin America, were denied.  In Latin
>America most nations were deliriously happy to get Jewish
>refugees, because they were good for the economy, and perhaps
>because they haven't forgotten that Latin Americans are descended
>mostly from Iberian Jews.  Most of

I guess I missed something there. I thought that Latin Americans were
descended mostly from the indigenous peoples...


-- 
The Earth Pig Bourne....

nadja@node.com (prefered email address)
nadja@weitek.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Oct 1973: Yom Kippur War (To Husam)
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 04:02:41 GMT

faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:
>As for returning the sinai, the Israelis' got the best deal. Israel could not
>expand into Egypt and Israelis' could not live in the Sinai without Israel
>trucking water and supplies every day. This also tied up Egypt to allow Israel
>to primarily concentrate on aquiring land from Syria and Lebanon while looking
>like a peace loving country.

Really!  What a deal?  Israel got to spend billions each year for oil
they had previously pumped themselves, from fields they had developed,
and spend billions more to replace the defense bases they evacuated
from in the Sinai.

A few more deals like that and they'll go bankrupt.

>By leaving the Sinai, every jewish family got $US200K courtesy UNCLE SAM and
>used that money to build homes in the west bank and golan heights, and soon
>in south Lebanon (by the time you get this posting, Clinton would have won).

How'd I miss out?  In fact, none of my Jewish relatives got a penny of
that 200 grand per Jewish family you mention.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:4854 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:492
From: abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (10th)
Summary: Read the ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS, and laugh (or weep).
Keywords: Islamic World News, Economics
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:10:46 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

I normally don't read the 'Islamic World News', but a headline in this
one caught my eye: something on Islam and Economic Systems.  Read it,
then follow the following pseudo-code:

IF (these views are not typical of the "Muslim Brotherhood") THEN
   Laugh;
ELSE
   Weep;

By the way, the article can best be described as a badly thought out
exercise in establishing moral superiority.  It has no economic content.

Tamer Abdelgawad

(Long live Belly-dancers!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso)
Subject: Re: Oct 1973: Yom Kippur War (To Husam)
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 06:47:35 GMT

a.Faris@trl.oz.au  writes:

>back in the 40s' when Palestine was being divided as a Jewish and Arab
>state.

There was never going to be a partition because the Arab countries
would not stand for a Jewish state.

	"This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre
	which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the
	Crusades."  --Arab League Secretary Gen. Pasha,
			May 15, 1948

	"I declare a holy war! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!"
		Haj Amin al Husseini,
		Mufti of Jeruslem, 1948


)Didn't Israel instigate the 67 war to capture the west bank, the Golan

Israel attack was not unprovoked.  On May 22, 1967 Nasser blocked the
Gulf of Aqaba cutting off Israeli port of Eilat, breaking
International Law.  The same week the Ba'ath Party seized power in
Syria and opened a new campaign of terrorism against Israel, while the
Syrian Army Shelled Israeli villiages in the Golan.  On May 15,
Egyptian forces rolled into the Sinai (In 1957 Egypt agreeed to
demilitarize the Sinai).  On May 17, Cairo Radio's Voice of the Arabs
proclaimed: "All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into a total war
which will put an end to Israel. "  Other quopets from Nasser that
persuaded Israel that an attack was immenent and that a pre-emptive
strike was necessesary and justified:

	"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel.  The
	Arab people want to fight" --May 27.

	"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on
	the borders of Israel...to face the challenge while standing
	behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan, and
	the whole Arab nation."  --May 28

If you call that unprovoked, then you're fucking on drugs.  If Israel
wanted more land they wouldn't have given up the Sinai or territories
beyond the Golan that it took in 67.  They want peace, and the sooner
the Arabs recognize ISrael's right to Exist, the sooner they can have
their land back.


roger
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: kinawi@acs.ucalgary.ca (Husam Kinawi)
Subject: Re: To Mr. Balloz, Thankyou
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 06:39:39 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Canada
Followup-To: soc.culture.arabic

In article <1992Nov5.083543.16875@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
 
>I can't deny anybody any right to express opinions or to reply to them.
>The basic thing, in my opinion, that should apply to everybody (starting by
>myself) is to avoide short sighted actions.
>If we are to do so, everyone of us has in his bag plenty of excuses and
>arguments to attack the others. At that time, brotherhood and common fate...
>become a ridiculous joke.

and writes:

>I know I am not an example to follow, if you had passed through what we have
>lived you would be better placed to understand my reactions.
>
>The thanks are due to you and may I take the opportunity to say that I was
>not directing my remarks to you personally, rather I was replying to those
>who angered me. 

Ibrahim, let me say: I doff my hat to your intelligence and civility. If
all  of our countrymen/women had similar attitudes, we wouldn't have the
fiasco  nor  the mess our part of the World is in. Arabs would have been
far better off!
Thank you very much.

Husam Kinawi
>******************************************************************************
>* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE         *
>* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K.*
>******************************************************************************


Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic