From: tssmith@netcom.com (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: Miyata women's saddle
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 16:33:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech

rlewis@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca (Robert Lewis) writes:
> pamela@keps.kodak.com (Pamela Blalock) writes:
> 
> [deleted section]
> 
> >                                            I'd been using the Terry
> >Women's for over 6 months and it worked great on everything up to this
> >ride.  
> 
> [deleted section]
> 
> >                     I asked our crew person to see if he could find
> >the Miyata saddle. It's often quite difficult to find women's
> >products, and I was almost shocked when he showed up 20 miles later
> >with this wonderful saddle with an exposed hole. He had found the
> >Miyata. The difference was immediately noticeable. I probably would
> >have finished the ride without it, but I wouldn't have been in a good
> >mood for days! The Miyata is a little harder under the sit bones than
>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >the Terry, but that's not where I was experiencing pain.  Of course
>  ^^^^^^^^^
> >the saddle is different looking and draws lots of comments and sexual
> >innuendos, but it saved my ride.  My male tandem partner is now
> >looking into making a similar type modification to his saddle before
> >our next really long event.
> 
> I wonder to what extent the fact that the saddle was harder made a
> (positive) difference.  I bring this up because my stoker (female) had
> an Avocet woman's gell saddle and then switched (along with a new bike)
> to an Ideal leather saddle, by most measures a very hard saddle.  She has
> experienced no pain using this saddle, at least in touring (up to 10
> hours in the saddle, which is, it must be said, less than you were
> doing).  The Ideal saddle is a men's model and similar to the Brooks
> saddle but it appears to be a bit wider.  The other saddle she has tried
> and liked (though we've not really tested it for any distance) is the
> Brooks mountain bike saddle (similar to the regular Brooks, but also
> seemingly a bit wider and with springs).  I bring this up because both
> of us, in searching for more comfortable saddles (for the respective
> female and male complaints in those nether regions), first went to
> softer saddles (gell) and found that things only got worse while on
> going to the 'old style' hard saddles we found that things improved.
> Though the real moral here may be that one needs to test these things
> out and to each their own.
> 
> Robert M. Lewis

Robert raises an important and often misunderstood point here. 
Leather saddles "feel" hard when you touch or press them, but
remember, it's your whole body weight that the saddle is supporting,
which is more than the pressure you can exert with your fingers.

A saddle doesn't have to be soft, but it must be compliant.  A plastic
saddle may or may not be sufficiently compliant.

The most comfortable saddle I have used is the Ideale 80. This is an
all-leather saddle, somewhat wider than the leather Brooks Pro.  The
Brooks saddle most similar to the Ideale 80 is the B15.  Once you get
used to it, you can ride 100+ miles per day, day after day, on an
all-leather saddle.

The spring-equipped Brooks saddle that Robert mentions is probably
the B66.  This was used on the venerable Raleigh Tourist, and also on
early mountain bikes.  I don't think these would be comfortable for
long distance rides.  They are designed for the sit-up-and-beg riding
posture of a traditional three speed.

Leather saddles require more care than plastic saddles.  You have to
protect them from rain and snow, and treat them periodically.  Don't
use neatsfoot oil, it makes the saddle too soft (yes).  Use Lexol
(available from good shoe stores) or Brooks Proofhide.  A leather
saddle has to be broken in, so don't judge it until you have about
600-800 miles on it.

If you ride long distances (say, more than 70 miles a ride), try an
all-leather saddle.  I'd recommend an Ideale 80, a Brooks B15, or a
Brooks B17.  If you don't want to take my word for it, listen to Lon
Haldeman (ex-RAAM record holder).  He has used a Brooks B15 on his
rides, and has done one or two long ones.

Leather saddles are still available from your pro bike shop by
special order, or from Cyclo-Pedia (800.678.1021 or 517.263.5803). 
Lickton's may have them too, but I don't have their phone number (try
800.555.1212).  Forget Performance or Nashbar or CC, they don't stock
this traditional stuff.

--Tim (tssmith@netcom.com)






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