HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: LS45 <LS45@UNB.CA>
Subject: Re: help with retriever problem
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:29:09 GMT

In article <168488552.X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu> X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.212606.25134@newshost.lanl.gov>
>  srlee@beta.lanl.gov (Stephen R Lee) writes:
>
>>>  ...my description of using a shock collar and
>>>     video camera deleted to save space.....
>
>>Is'nt this just a wee bit on the elaborate side?
>
>Perhaps.  But I did see it work....
>
>
>>I think all she has to do
>>is (1) keep illegal items out of reach;
>
>Possibly, but then again, the dog may just switch to chewing on
>the sofa cushions.
>
>
>>(2) provide lots of chew toys;
>
>If she would chew on them, then great.
>
>
>>(3) if the pooch is found chewing an illegal object, use the "GIVE!"
>>command and force the dog to drop it, then praise and replace with a
>>legal toy.  I don't dispute that your suggestion would work, it just
>>seems expensive, elaborate, and un-necessary, unless the dog is
>>particularly stubborn.
>
>Recall that the problem pooch didn't chew on things when she was
>home.  Kinda hard to give a command when you're not there.  For those
>times where she was home to catch the dog, this would definately be
>the preferred method.  Of course, she may not need to use a video
>camera and rearrange her living room, borrowing a pair of binoculars
>to look through the window *could* be just as effective.....
>
>      ----------------------------------------------
>Chris Barnes            |
>x005cb@tamvm1.tamu.edu  |  Only 14 more days until the start of
>(409) 846-3273 (home)   |           hunting season (in Texas)
>(409) 845-8454 (work)   |
>.
>.
Sorry for intruding, but after rereading the original post, I believe
the problem was actually chewing things when the owner was home.


Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: sla54@cas.org (Sandra Augustine)
Subject: Re: Hunting ability in Labradors
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:27:54 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.164726.18409@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> willett@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (david.c.willett) writes:
>
>Don't the same laws of probability and inheritance which allow birdy parents
>to produce non-birdy offspring allow non-birdy parents to produce birdy ones?

	I've followed this "debate" about hunting ability in labradors with
great interest because I've owned golden retrievers for almost 10 years (can I
call them "my" breed yet?).  Although my dogs come primarily from "show"
lines, I do tend to agree that a golden retriever without the basic abilities
to serve as a RETRIEVER for hunting should probably not be bred. However, I have
observed that people who are interested in hunting/field work buy their puppies
from breeders known to produce good hunting/field dogs, people who are
interested in breed ring competition buy their puppies from "show" kennels, and
obedience competitors buy their puppies from breeders known to produce dogs which
get high scores in the obedience ring. This results in a lot of field dogs who
are never shown in the breed ring, show dogs who never have a chance to prove
themselves in the field, obedience dogs who have never even seen a shot bird,
etc. A consequence of this is that many lines of dogs remain virtually untested
in certain areas. The fact that puppy buyers choose dogs from lines which
corresponds with their interests makes the above question even more difficult to
answer than the basic laws of genetics would suggest. For example, birdy parents
might appear to produce birdier puppies than "show" parents because their
puppies are sold to people who will spend the time to train them for field
work/hunting. Sometimes its hard to tell how much of a dog's "natural" ability
in a given area of performance is due to genetics and how much is due to the
dedication of the dog's owner. The above question can't be answered unless a
large percentage of sporting breed dogs are tested, regardless of the lines or kennels
from which they come.

	Speaking of testing, I just had a litter of NINE goldens this week! Do
any of you hunting/field people have ideas for testing the pups for birdiness in
addition to the standard pigeon/duck wing test? And what's the best age for this
kind of testing?

********************************************************************************
Sandra Augustine   | Home of: Remington of North Woods CDX, WC
NORWOOD KENNELS    |          CH Laurell's Golden Gate CDX, WC (Reg. with TDI)
ems: sla54@cas.org |          CH Delmar's Trivial Pursuit CD, WC (Reg. with TDI)
********************************************************************************
	       The above opinions are not those of my employer.
********************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: billuw@turtle.oakhill.uucp (Bill Underwood)
Subject: Re: help with retriever problem (with question)
Organization: SPS CAD, Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas.
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:22:14

> In <172vi2INNrri@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull) writes:
> >How do the rest of you walk 3 or more dogs at the
> >same time?
>
> One at a time!

R. C. Steele has an attachment that allows you to link multiple collars to
a single lead.  While I haven't tried this, I have rigged a similar device
with an extra chain collar and a couple of connectors.  It seems to work
reasonably well with my two (malamute and great pyrennes) but I'm not sure
how it would extrapolate to three dogs.  Has anyone else tried this sort
of arrangement?

Bill Underwood
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Re: Scaredy cat dog
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:05:03 GMT

In <16rb0eINNl5e@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull) writes:

>tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:

>>In <19382@drutx.ATT.COM> mlhb@mammoth.dr.att.com (Sky Warrior) writes:

>>>Both CHD and hip displaysia are hereditary and
>>>cannot be influenced by environmental factors.

>>This seems a bit strong to me.  Yes, they are hereditary diseases,
>>nothing changes that.  But the clinical symptoms can be aggravated or
>>minimized with environmental factors.  This includes keeping their
>>weight down and restraining them from doing things like jumping.  In
>>this manner, you have a dog with HD, but that is much more comfortable
>>(minimum pain) than it would be if you let it get overweight and jump
>>around and put more stress on those dysplastic joints.  So preventing
>>a dysplastic dog from going up and down the stairs may, in fact, help
>>reduce its pain.  It would, however, not remove the fact that it has
>>HD since that is hereditary.

>My pup's breeder who has over 30 years experience with Rotts would tend
>to put even more emphasis on environment than Cindy expresses.  She
>claims that dysplasia is only 60% hereditary, and that bad food, or
>too much exercise too early or a variety of other things can cause
>dogs that would have ended up with normal hips to be dysplastic.  She
>says that the 6 month old who has severe bilateral dysplasia is
>undoubtedly the results of bad genes.  The 2 year old with dysplasia,
>especially if it is slight or moderate *can* be the victim of
>environmental factors.

Well, the breeders I know would claim that the latter example simply
has a mild case of HD that was exposed by the environmental factors.
That is, the genetic component isn't all or nothing -- it gives
graduated degrees of HD.  Until we do a genetic analysis on dogs, we
won't know for sure.

--Cindy
--
Cindy Tittle Moore -- Terrell's Chocolate Deduction (chocolate labrador bitch)

The rec.pets.dogs FAQ -- all eight parts -- is available via ftp to
pit-manager.mit.edu under pub/usenet/news.answers/dogs-faq/*.  There
is a mail server, email me for details.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Subject: Re: LIFE magazine and Puppy Mills
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:16:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.201219.7061@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
    davis@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Barbara Davis) writes:
 
 
>I don't think any issue is as black and white as you state.  My Shih-Tzu
>was purchased from a small pet store.
 
     .......text of how a good pup was found at a
            pet store deleted to save bandwidth .......
 
>There have been too many "bad breeder" stories on this net to make a blanket
>statement about any source of puppies.
 
There will always be exceptions to a rule (and apparently you found 1),
but that is not a reason to throw the rule away.  The rule "don't ever
buy a dog from a pet store" is still VERY sound advice.
 
      ----------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |
x005cb@tamvm1.tamu.edu  |  Only 15 more days until the start of
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |           hunting season (in Texas)
(409) 845-8454 (work)   |
From: williamsk@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Desperately seeking a major)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Request for show info/experience
Date: 21 Aug 92 06:35:18 EST

In article <16ud6tINNqh3@agate.berkeley.edu>, jwd@briones.ced.berkeley.edu (John Wilbrand Dahlgren) writes:
> I read the FAQ about showing dogs, but I still have a few
> questions. 
> 
> 1)   What is a "major"? Apparently you get more points for it.
>      Is it a major win? or a major show?
Actually, the number of points determines whether it is a "major" or not.
The number of points is determined by how many entries there are of the
same sex of the same breed that aren't already champions.  For example,
in Ohio (and yes, the state does matter), for males golden retrievers
the point schedule is as follows:  
        4 - 1 pt.  12 - 2 pts  20 - 3 pts  30 - 4 pts  48 - 5 pts.
In reality it isn't the number of dogs that are entered, but the number of 
dogs that show up for the competition.  Any win that a dogs has that is
3, 4 or 5 points is a major.

However, there are other ways to get majors.  For example, let's say that
male golden retrievers had enough for a 3 point major, but the females 
only had enough for a 2 point major.  Later on in the competition (Best of
Breed Competition), there is a win called Best of Winners, and only the 
Winner's Dog and Winner's Bitch compete for this.  If the Winner's Bitch 
wins Best of Winners, she gets a major also because she beat the dog who
got a major.

Now consider the case where there are only enough competing for 2 points,
but they are only shy of a 3 point major by one dog.  (In golden males in
Ohio, that would mean there were 19 dogs present.)  If the Winner's Dog
wins BOB (Best of breed) or BOS (Best of Opposite Sex), and there were
champions that he beat, then he would get the major.  (Note:  If he were to
win BOB, it could be male OR female champions that he beat, but if he were
to win BOS, it must be male champions.)

Confusing?  It will sink it!
> 
> 2)   In obedience trials are dogs competing against other breeds?
>      Is consideration given for dogs which tend to be harder
>      to train?
Yes and No
> 
> My four month old Shiba and I are new to all of this, so any
> information or experiences regarding the showing of dogs (or
> shiba's in general) will be greatly appreciated. Feel free to
> e-mail and I'll try and summarize and maybe add to the FAQ.
It's fun and frustrating!
> 
> Jack Dahlgren
> jwd@ced.berkeley.edu
> 
Kim

(Seeking one more major for Spencer's championship - today we are at a 5 point
major!  54 dogs total!)
>
From: terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: LIFE magazine and Puppy Mills
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:38:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: moe.16gr22INNhf8
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ralph.eece.ksu.edu

hoff@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Wildfire) writes:

>Kimberly Laird <U30993@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:

>>don't buy from pet stores, please.....

>This reminds me of a question....Here in Champaign, there is a petstore
>that claims it does not buy puppys from mills, and they have posted petitions
>for people to sign to stop puppy mills.  To what extent is this sort of
>thing a marketing ploy, and how much is legit? 

I am aware of some pet stores that do not buy from the really terrible
mass producers of puppies.  Instead they buy from individuals who just
have a couple of litters each year and they want to make a buck from 
their put.  Buying from these people supports irresponsible breeding,
just like buying from the puppy mill places.  

The original advice was very good.  Don't buy from pet stores, no
matter what kind of petitions they put in the window. 

--
Terry Hull  -  terry@eece.ksu.edu
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: pastor@prc.unisys.com (Jon Pastor)
Subject: Re: 2 dogs need new homes (half-Samoyed male; American Eskimo female)
Organization: not much...
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:03:06 GMT

There is another alternative to de-barking.  R.C.Steele (and, I suspect, other
pet supplies places) sell a sound-activated "barker-breaker" that uses a
hypersonic sound to distract the dog.  Haven't tried it, so I don't know if it
works.




Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: davis@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Barbara Davis)
Subject: Re: dog digs holes
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:40:13 GMT

rgoldstone@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU (Robin, Girl Wonder) writes:

[Deleted, history of digging]

>I would appreciate any suggestions of alternative things I can try to
>break him of this digging.  I know about chili pepper and balloons, but
>like I said he digs in a different place every time, so I would not be able
>to anticipate the next spot.  I can't imagine crating him all day.  This 
>is unacceptable to me.  (He was crate trained as a pup and he sleeps in his
>crate.  I am a believer in crate training, but not confinement for 8 hours.)
>Get another dog?  Maybe.  I go back and forth.  Maybe a second dog would
>keep him occupied all day and he wouldn't dig.  But then again, maybe two
>dogs will mean twice as many holes in my yard...

A second dog does provide companionship and does not end mischief born of
boredom.  My two were almost daily finding something to tear up until I
finally bought a pen for them.  It is the size of a child's play pen.  My
two are a toy poodle and a Shih-Tzu so this is a good size for them.

The result is a happy mom (no more damage) and two happy dogs (no more angry
mom). 

They spent even more time than usual in the pen the last week while I was
on vacation.  I was gone overnight for several nights and a friend looked
in on them, fed them and walked them three times a day.  They were just fine
when I got home from my trip and they were happy to go into their pen when
I left for work this morning.

I don't think we can judge a dog's reaction to confinement the same way we
would react ourselves.  I really don't think they are unhappy with the 
small space at all.  In the wild they build a small den.

Barb

>-Robin
>***********************************************************************
>Robin Goldstone, Systems Software Specialist
>California State University, Chico  Computing Services
>rgoldstone@oavax.csuchico.edu
-- 
Barbara G. Davis                       Internet:  davis@ucsu.colorado.edu
University of Colorado, Boulder 

                   If I don't ask, you can't say, "Yes!".
From: X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: DOG WITH CANCER
Date: 19 Aug 1992 19:29:29 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University

In article <1992Aug19.151422.11122@fns-nc1.fns.com>
    mcnc!fns-nc1.fns.com!vib (Victor Bur) writes:
 
>Recently my 7 years old Golden has been diagnosed with limpho-sarcoma.  The
>prognosis is quite gloomy: 2-to-4 months without treatment, or 6-to-12 months
>with chemotherapy treatment (provided that the dog reacts well to it).
>
>Now I am facing a dilemma -- to treat or not to treat?
>
>So far, I have chosen to go for a treatment, but I am still not convinced
>that it was a right decision.  The bottom line question is : IS IT WORTH
>IT?
 
That is a question that only you can answer.  All anyone else can do
is offer what they would do and their sympathy.
 
What would I do?  Having never faced that before, I can't say for sure,
but I think I would probably opt to not have the treatments.  At best,
you're talking about extending the life of the dog by 10 months.  And
my experiance with cancer patients from working in the hospital says tha
chemotherapy is not pleasant.  If the dog was free of pain, I would
let him/her live it's last days in peace.  If it wasn't, I would
seriously consider putting him/her down.
 
May God give you strength in whatever you decide to do.
 
Chris Barnes
From: srlee@beta.lanl.gov (Stephen R Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: help with retriever problem
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:58:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: newshost.1992Aug19.215856.1079
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

In article <16848C94F.X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu> X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.164129.8388@newshost.lanl.gov>
>    srlee@beta.lanl.gov (Stephen R Lee) writes:
> 
>>>>I think all she has to do
>>>>is (1) keep illegal items out of reach;
>>>
>>>Possibly, but then again, the dog may just switch to chewing on
>>>the sofa cushions.
>>
>>Then don't allow the dog access to the cushions when you are not there
>>to watch it.
> 
>Maybe she could put the entire couch up in the attic while she is
>gone.....   ;-)

Again, somewhat complicated.  Crating the dog would probably suffice.

> 
> 
>>>Recall that the problem pooch didn't chew on things when she was
>>>home.  Kinda hard to give a command when you're not there.  For those
>>>times where she was home to catch the dog, this would definately be
>>>the preferred method.  Of course, she may not need to use a video
>>>camera and rearrange her living room, borrowing a pair of binoculars
>>>to look through the window *could* be just as effective.....
>>
>>Are we talking about the same poster?  The person I was referring to
>>*did* have the problem when she was at home.  Therefore, my comments
>>stand.  I have conversed with this person off of the net, but I
>>thought your idea, again, while it might work, seemed a little
>>elaborate to me, and un-necessary in this case.
> 
>Actually she had 2 seperate problems (I'm going from memory, so
>I may be wrong here...)
> 
>1)  The dog would chew all manner of things while she was away.
>    This seemed to be the major problem.
> 
>2)  If the dog picked up something while she was home, she had a
>    very difficult time getting it away from her.  She resorted to
>    enticing the dog to open it's mouth by offering treats, where-
>    upon the dog began swallowing the "illegal" item.

We must be taling about someone else.  The poster I reponded to in email
had problem #2 only.  I never asked why she had problem #1.  I suppose
she crates the dog or otherwise denys it access to illegal objects.



-- 
============================================================
Stephen R. Lee                 | 
OooWoo Racing Kennel           | I'd rather be driving sled
E-Mail: srlee@beta.lanl.gov    | dogs.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs,co.general
From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby)
Subject: Re: Front Range heartworm outbreak
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Distribution: co
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:45:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.185132.12637@den.mmc.com> kevin@traffic.den.mmc.com writes:
[Informative information about rising heartworm incidence in Denver
area deleted for brevity.]
= 
= I contacted my veterinarian in Boulder, who told me that, according to
= the state parasitology lab in Ft. Collins, the incidence in Boulder
= remains "very low".  He also advised me that unless my dogs spend more
= than 12 hours a day outside in an area where mosquitoes are a problem,
= or travel to regions where heartworm disease is more common, the current
= risk doesn't justify putting them on a preventive medicine.

[The "your one dog" in the following paragraph is a generic "one
dog" and a generic "you" rather than a reference to Kevin's dog(s).]

I don't mean to second guess Kevin's vet but I think this is advice
that should be examined critically by the owner of the dog.
Granted that living in a (relatively) heartworm-free area and
spending less time outdoors *statistically* lowers the risk but
it only takes one infected mosquito.  And, while your one dog is
only a small fraction of a percent of the population at large, it
is *100%* of your one dog.  The odds are against it if incidence of
the disease is low but I believe that each person must evaluate
those odds and decide if they are low enough.

I live in northern New Mexico at 7,500 feet and my dogs are on
heartworm preventive year round.  Granted, I hunt them but that is
typically in the southern part of the state where it is usually
even drier than it is here.  I just don't want to take the risk.


-- 
Best,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
	  crs@lanl.gov
From: terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Hunting ability in Labradors (long)
Date: 19 Aug 1992 14:16:39 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ralph.eece.ksu.edu

X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:
> 
>Close, but not quite.  True, my recommendation to someone that is
>looking for a pet will ALWAYS be against getting a Lab.  Why?  

I was under the impression that Labs, in general make excellent pets
for "normal" people.  Is this not true?  Being a Rottweiler guy, I
don't recommend my breed to Mr. Joe Average, because they can't handle
the average Rott.  For people that will provide exercise, basic
training and daily attention while wanting a larger dog, I typically
recommend Labs and Goldens, because they do make excellent pets.
What would you suggest I recommend instead?  Keep in mind these 
are not people who will tie their dogs in the back yard for 10 years.
They really do have time for a dog and will attend to the dog's needs.  
For people that don't have time for a dog, I frequently recommend getting
a SandCast statue of their favorite breed.  (No ;-) here.)

>Because
>they *could* be getting one that IS "birdy" and should be used for
>hunting/breeding.  

With Rottweilers, we can usually tell at 8 weeks old if a dog will be
an outstanding working prospect.  Is this not true for Labs?  Can't
the breeder find this extremely "birdy" dog before he sells it?  If
so, isn't that his responsibility?  If not, is the hunting gene pool
of Labs so small that the loss of 1 outstanding dog will significantly
degrade the gene pool?  In Rotts, there are THOUSANDS of wonderful
studs out there, each of which can sire hundreds of puppies, so the
loss of even a truly outstanding sire is no big deal.  Since bitches
have so few puppies, the loss of a great bitch is indeed a loss for
the gene pool.

>As these dogs ARE rare, it should be prevented.

Just how rare are they?  1 in 10?  1 in 50?  Even if "birdy" Labs are 
1 in 50, how many Labs were registered last year?  100,000+ right?  
That means 2,000+ "birdy" dogs registered in a single year?  Do we
really *need* this many dogs added to the breeding population out of 
the puppies from a single year?  I realize we need more than this out
of a single year to maintain current numbers of puppies, but don't we
have an overabundance of puppies already?  

--
Terry Hull  -  terry@eece.ksu.edu
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University