HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: melissa@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Melissa C Merrill)
Subject: Country in Chainsaw avail.
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 02:35:20 GMT


The Chainsaw game has just started, and alas I am not going to be able to play.
I did explore the island a bit, and it is HUGE. As I said, we havent even had
an update yet. If you want this country, please email me asap, as the first
update is 7am EST tommorrow.

I will give it to the first person to respond. Thanks.

Melissa
From: zog@festus.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott Allen Bauer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:43:20 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: festus.ksu.ksu.edu

In article <18qhiqINN5rj@kitty.ksu.ksu.edu> camelsho@kitty.ksu.ksu.edu (   James A Seymour   ) writes:
>Yo Zoggy!  Heard you were pissed that no one had you in their
>top 10 players list.  Get Real.  


Ya...Why wasnt I included...Maybe because I havent won a game yet..
NO that couldnt be it.
Top ten players from KSU (Kansas State University)
***Note this is based on my person beliefs, the time each person has to 
   play a one update per day game, and whether or they bought me pizza lately

1. ZOG (no explaination necassary)
2. Greyhelm (After all he is my roommate and I would like him to run another game)
3. Scum(note not THE_SCUM)/Bampthville/./DEAFmute  (well hes sitting beside me now
   with a galant fist rised wanting to be in the top 3)
4. BattleAxe/ToyLand (Hes new, very little promise but I would like him to set me up with a friend of his)
5. Cron (He has alot on his hands, but hes a sucker)  **hi cron**
6. a Whole bunch of other Fodders
7. narnia  (not not Narnia) ((also Note he is very good but doesnt have lots of time
   on his hands to play a regular game so he gets last.)
well that is all
Let the Flames Continue
zog out
From: ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: markets shcmarkets...
Date: 9 Sep 92 04:13:18 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Sep8.192857.816@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu> jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (Jim Feldhouse) writes:
>
>Allies should always be able to trade commodities, planes, ships.
>They just have to do the transporting of said good to the destination,
>or picking them up.  ALLYHARBOR is a good start, but ships should
>be able to be boarded from units in the harbor sector, whether friendly
>or otherwise.  Meanwhile, there should be a ALLYAIRBASE rule, such that
>planes can land in an ally's air base, the owner ship would change
>to the owner of the air base then (mobility should not change).
>The new owner can then fly them back, or use them himself.

	These two features are already implemented in the Chainsaw 2.0 code,
running in Matt's Chainsaw game.

	(Also ALLYHARBORWORK, allowing allies to repair your ships)

Tom
From: madpit@athena.mit.edu (Douglas R. Pitters)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Redline, Vulgaria, Ultima
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:28:25 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology


1.  Redline, like most americans, didn't put too much thought into his post.
He, like most americans, likes to write and think at the same time.

As the maintainer of the empire hall of fame, I pretty much try as hard as I can
to keep up with most of the competent players in the game.  Being truly
objective, I must say that the only non-american empire players that I'd consider
would be Graahoeje, because in games where I have seen him play, I have always
seen him consistently place in top tens, with other strong players.  Other
mentions would include Guzzer, although I still find it ironic that he took
my derogatory *WAVE* and turned it into a  trademark <WAVE>.  Of course there is
a different set of values for entrance into the hall of fame other than just
being able to accurately compute the # of che in a sector (why the hell you'd
need to do that....)

2. more americans love to use r.g.e to toot their own horns.  I know I
*REALLY* love to do it, and I've seen Jason do it, and I've seen Brett do
it, and recently I've seen Langerhans do it (winning a TAMU game does lift
the spirit a bit, eh FODDER?).  Believe it or not, that could be a reason people
sometimes forget the more humble, quiet europeans. Like Tom T said, europeans
might be better than americans at computational and strategic moves, while
americans are more aggresive (or something like that) That is why you find
Europeans with more consistent top ten placings, or consistently lasting to the
end of games, while you find more Americans either winning games or getting
totally wasted.

The empire hall of fame's greatest players has about 20 players in it right
now, and about 10 players who I'm working on inducting through recommendations
of several other respected sources. Guzzer is in the lead, among european
players, to get inducted, for while Graahoeje may yet be a better empire 
player, he lacks the finish and style to enter the hall of fames, something 
which Guzzer apparently has some skill in.  Those 10 players have a long way
to go though, because the current players in the hall of fame are not only
the best players to ever play the game, but have *affected* the game of empire
to the degree that it is not the same again.

But most of all, remember what SLIM (TOG for you lower suck-ups) says, one
loss doesn't really matter in the big picture.


BTW, empire hall of fame is ftp'able at the empire-list, at the new location
which I've already forgotten, or you can email me for a copy.  It's for
entertainment and historical purposes only.
From: evil@bbn.com (Dave Nye)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: The EMPIRE.BBN.COM EMPIRE ARCHIVE HAS MOVED...
Followup-To: greyhelm@cis.ksu.edu
Date: 9 Sep 1992 21:03:46 GMT
Organization: War Lord and Imperial Emperor of THE Evil Empire
Distribution: world
Reply-To: evil@bbn.com (Dave Nye)
NNTP-Posting-Host: archive.bbn.com
Keywords: empire.bbn.com, archive, moved


It's official I have had two offers to house the famed empire archives
that will be leaving friday the 11th of september.  You've already
heard about the first one that will do well for those folks in Europe
and now this one will cover the rest of the known world.  I'd like
to thank everyone for the great offers of their resources and I hope
that you all show the two new empire archive managers the great respect
that I've received the two years that I ran the archive.  Please
keep things going by donating more of the great stuff that you're writing.

G'bye and thanks for all the fish.. :)

-=TheEvilArchiver
evil@gnu.ai.mit.edu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Karl S. Hagen" <greyhelm@cis.ksu.edu>

His archive policy:

.. I tend to enforce a policy of 1 week delay.  ie.
  I get the file and it will be 1 week or less till I move it to
  the Archive.... This gives me time to reveiw the upload before I
  put it up..... kind of a BBS policy but it helps.. I have caught a
  few bad files.

      The ARchive is :


   		ftp.cis.ksu.edu

		nslookup Info:
			Name:     procyon.cis.ksu.edu
			Address:  129.130.10.80
			Aliases:  ftp.cis.ksu.edu


                Directory is:  pub/Games/Empire

		email should be directed to: greyhelm@cis.ksu.edu

		ALL uploads go into:  pub/Games/Empire/incoming


-- 
*******************************************************************************
****     Karl S. Hagen          Student - Kansas State University          ****
****     greyhelm@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu      greyhelm@matt.ksu.ksu.edu        ****
****     Moria Archives Manager           Empire Archive Manager           ****
*******************************************************************************
-- 
===============================================================================
===   =========   =======================              David Lee Nye          =
===   =========   =======================       BBN-DSS Systems Administrator =
===         ===         ===         =====       evil@bbn.com, dnye@bbn.com    =
===   ===   ===   ===   ===   ===   =====            evil@gnu.ai.mit.edu      =
===   ===   ===   ===   ===   ===   =====       BBN, Inc., Cambridge, MA      =
===         ===         ===   ===   =Inc=  My employers computer, MY opinion. =
===============================================================================
From: ctrown@uts.amdahl.com (Christopher Trown)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Empire Mail lists
Keywords: empire mail list blitz
Date: 11 Sep 92 23:32:24 GMT
Reply-To: ctrown@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Christopher Trown)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA





     As some of you may know, Dave Nye(aka: EvIl) is no longer able to maintain
these lists.  These lists include the blitz list and the regular empire Mail 
list.  Their new home is at Amdahl Corp.  So, should you wish to join the lists,
the new address to send mail to join is: empire-request@amdahl.com.
     If you want to post something(I would suggest joining the lists first),
these are the new addresses:

Empire list :  empire-list@amdahl.com
Blitz list  :  blitz-list@amdahl.com


Chris Trown
ctrown@uts.amdahl.com

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: zklf0b@gs144.uucp (Fergason)
Subject: Re: Rating systems.  AAAGGGHHHH!!!
Keywords: n
Organization: Amoco Production
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:32:40 GMT


In article <1992Sep14.161727.12934@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kpearce@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (BULLDAWG) writes:
>Ratings suck.
>
>1)  Ratings are only valid if all factors are identical:  same world, same
>islands, same everything _every_ time and this ain't gonna happen.  Otherwise,
>you are comparing "apples and oranges."

I dont see how this is true.  I dont think all factors are identical in chess
or tennis or fencing or ...

>
>2)  This thread appeared a few months ago and nothing came of it.  Because it
>is impossible.  This is _not_ chess or _tennis_ where one can count on the table

Why is it impossible?  The only thing a rating does is give general ability.
In my system, and A is generally better than a B.  That is all.  I think
most people would agree that (for example) Mirkwood, being an A, would
probably finish close to the top of most of the games that country plays
in.  Soxland, being unclassified, would probably finish near the bottom,
or get taken out early.  

>being the same or the out line being the same.  This is a make-it-up-as-you-
>go-along game.  God knows how many varients of code / world size / etus /
>updates there have been (or are possible).  As many games as there have been 
>played, that's the answer.

I believe thats the idea of Mith's system.  More like the chess system,
which keeps track of how well you are playing.  Until recently, code wasnt
a problem.  I don't believe world size / etus / updates change the game
that much

Kelly

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga)
Subject: Re: Need help with GS Empire
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 05:35:59 GMT
Organization: Stay Awake Software
Summary: Please, read the README file

<al162929.715647671@academ01> al162929@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Luis Manuel Milan Leal) :
>I've just ftp'ed the GS Empire game, but I have a problem with it. There seems
>to be something wrong with the clear screen, because It doesnt clears. It
>just sends out some weird codes ^[f{^[ or something like that and it keeps on
>writing. I cant see what Im writing, and it looks horrible. I checked the ZIP
>file, zipped and unzipped it, both with Unix and PC's Pkzips. I FTP'ed it
>three times, from my account and from a PC. It still wont work. I use the
>BINARy setting...so why cant the game work as it should?
>
>Anyone has/has the same problem? Or knows what am I doing wrong?

If you will look in the README file you will notice that the first thing I
explain is that you have to have installed ANSI.SYS as a device in your
config.sys file.  If you do not do this then DOS has no idea how to
interpret the ESCape sequences for controlling the cursor, putting the
right colors on the screen, and clearing the screen.

If this still doesn't work email me at gordons@netcom.netcom.com.  If
possible include a copy of your config.sys file.  With any luck we'll have
you staying up all night playing GS Empire real soon. :-)


Gordon
-- 
The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes)
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:34:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.183744.23793@athena.mit.edu>, madpit@athena.mit.edu (Douglas R. Pitters) writes:
|> In article <18s7hjINN44l@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, heinlein@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (The tired one) writes:
|> |> HEY!  I think I remember this game... either this one, or one really
|> |> close in time frame, where Ultima got blown down to 5 or so sectors,
|> |> but wound up supplying someone or another with zillions of nukes... ;)
|> |> Mike
|> 	Got it backwards Mike. Ultima blew Zenith down to 5 or so sectors,
|> but then left for Christmas, and Zenith came back to supply the world with
|> nukes...
|> 		The Saint

Right on, Doug.  Anyone who knows anything about the infamous '89 Washington
Game, knows that I nuked the crap out of Zenith and Kaerconan (the only power
block that had a chance of taking away the coveted yellow jersey)
to basically end that game in spite of the deity's assistance to Zenith, Kaer,
and the other washington players (at least that's what U.S. of Madison tells
me).  A few people kept on playing over Xmas break after the game was over
and that's where the rumors of the 'great Zenith comeback' got started.

|> Hey Danny, my favorite guy was Macross..... remember him?

No way, Doug. It was U.S. of Madison.  As a matter of fact, I was just reading
some quotes from that OU game a year or so ago where we were all trying to
get to U.S. of Madison.  I forgot how hilarious they were.  I'll e-mail you
a copy.  You'll die.  Anyone else who wants copies, send me e-mail.

|> 3 row of forts, and he still went down flaming.
|> 
|> 
|> And whatever happened to Fornax....

Fornax was in the beach game right before that, wasn't he?

|> 


-----
T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
(a.k.a. Ultima)
-----

Hey, Doug.  We could almost start a new group....

rec.games.empire.washington-89
From: elvis@netcom.com (kEvin A. Thornbury)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Tech in Empire.
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:45:33 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:


>From what I understand, back when games were 8 or 16 ETUs, tech was
>difficult to make because it was difficult to make *edu*.  The lower
>your edu, the less tech you got.  Also, there was an edu cap.  When the
>max edu is 8, it's difficult to make a lot of breakthroughs.  So, people
>would spend a lot of money and a lot of materials to make a little
>tech.

>You could make tech, or you could save your money.  It wasn't possible to
>do both, because of the high cost of tech production.

I would bet that just raising the cost of tech and edu would take care of
the problem. Money was introduced as a limiting factor, and it's possible
to go bankrupt pushing tech, but I don't see that very often. If tech were
so expensive that no one could have both a high tech and a big military, then
people would have to think twice about pushing tech. I wish I could remember
who said, "In empire, money does grow on trees."

The market can be used to mess this up , of course, since
a high tech power can recoup much of the cost by selling
high tech items at a markup.


idle musings....


kEvin
sheep
From: fein@acsu.buffalo.edu (L. Fein)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 11 Sep 92 05:07:53 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Sep10.104344.11823@daimi.aau.dk> ctjmrr@daimi.aau.dk (Claus Torp Jensen) writes:
>Ok, so I got annoyed...I know I shouldn't do this, and my wife will kill me....
>but I'll do it anyway.......
>
>Now, for one thing, Redline claimed that NO non-US players were among
>the best of the community.
>

	So if you're disputing this claim. NAME one..

>For another: There are far more US-players than non-US players, so saying
>something like 80% of the best players are US doesn't exactly impress me.....
>maybe 80% of ALL Empire players are US-players......
>
	To be blunt, for the MOST part, the play of most NON US players
doesn't impress me.

>
>
>Now down to business:
>
>I hereby officially challenge REdline to prove his claim (this is the part
>that my wife and child won't like......:( ):
>
>BUT the conditions of the game need to be such, that I have a chance to
>perform as best I can.
>Which means:

Ah, the prepackaged excuses begin..

>
>ROTATING UPDATES (yes, I know Redlien thinks those sthink...but if he wants
>to claim he is better than someone we need equal terms).

Rotating updates? Why? I think Redline has MORE than proved that he
is a VERY capable player. 

>AT LEAST 6 DAYS BETWEEN UPDATES (I simply can't manage anymore....
>I PROMISED my wife this would be the last Empire game for some time).
>

*SIX* days? Are you NUTS? The game would take a year to play!
If you're going to throw down the gauntlet, you'd better be more flexible than
this..


>And I need to wait some time before this challenge game can start......
>I am currently playing the ALberta Invitational.....I need that to
>finish first, and I need my wife to calm down after that one....:)
>

	Time.. Maybe six days? :-)

>
>Now some additional comments:
>1) A one-one challenge will NEVER prove who is the better player in an
>   ordinary game, but just maybe it will settle this criticism of NON-US
>   players.

Then why challenge? And rash claims and challenged seldom settle anything.


>2) This post is much more aggressive than my usual self. I guess I just got
>   kind of tired of seeing this claim of only US-players being any good,
>   not just once, but THREE times in the past year.....
>   Last time it all ended in different "good" teams being proposed.....
>   but no playing in the end.
>

	I don't think that anyone said "any good" I think the claim is
"best". Big difference
>
>
>
>Claus/The King of Graahoeje
>(maybe not the best of Empire players but at least I have my pride)

Me too.


Now, for those of you that have made it this far.. If you two boys can 
settle this dispute, I will be more than HAPPY to run this game. I'd like
to see a good old fashioned dismantling... 


Larry/ AKA Land_Of_Faa
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:36:30 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep15.061453.3672@athena.mit.edu>, ranald@athena.mit.edu (Gregory L Yantz) writes:

|> Still in retirement, 
|> Greg Yantz aka DAK/Ministry

"The Choker" LIVES!!!!!

Where have you been hiding?

-----
T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
-----
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: zharman@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Raven Zachary)
Subject: Is there a MAC CLIENT?
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:42:13 GMT


Is there a MAC client for EMPIRE????
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Cylinder:  The International Society for the Philosophy of Tools and Space
         Raven Zachary, Director of Information   <cylinder@uiowa.edu>        
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rob@theo.ucsb.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Is there a MAC CLIENT?
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:55:54 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara

In article <1992Sep11.024213.27079@news.weeg.uiowa.edu> zharman@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Raven Zachary) writes:
>
>Is there a MAC client for EMPIRE????

    I don't think so.  But I was considering making one like xemp that runs
on the mac.  Ever play Strategic Conquest?  That's sort of what I had in mind.
Instead of different characters, the map would be made of icons with a number
in the corner to represent the amount of _fill-in-the-blank_.
	Movement is done by clicking and dragging through a path using your
map...

	Of course I haven't started yet. :)  
And unless you had your mac connected to ethernet, say you had it at home,
then you must use a modem.  Slow data transfer, but I think it would still
be much easier to use...


	I was also thinking of adapting empire to run on the mac, like
an advanced form of strategic conquest that could be played over an appletalk
network...

PCs suck if you ask me.


Robert Buckles (rob@theo.ucsb.edu)
Shockwave 
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer)
Subject: US .vs. non-US battle (Was: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?)
Organization: the Elves of Briton
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:48:57 GMT

mytelka@codon9 (Daniel Mytelka;612 Barker;x2-5110) writes:
>>I'll make three countries.
>
>>Europe
>>United States
>>Australia
>
>This will not work. Empire can be teams or one-on-one, but a three way
>match will go absolutely nowhere. Whenever any country starts leading, the
>other two countries will join forces and knock him down. A natural 
>balance of power. No way that any player can beat up two competent
>opponents simultaneously.

After a bit of discussion via Annos/Teles in the UB game 
it was decided that the best way was to have two teams of three
countries playing in one world.

the players are:

US:		Redline, 	Ultima, 	Revelstone
non-US:		Graahoeje,	Vulgaria,	Guzzer

currently update times and etus are being discussed via e-mail.

Revelstone/Guzzer both volunteered.
Graahoeje/Vulgaria have accepted the challenge.
Ultima is willing dependent on the conditions of the game

and I havn't heard from Ken yet.

Ultima expressed an opinion that he wondered whether this game would be 
excepted by the rge community as representing that Europeans are better
then Americans (Assuming a European win).

I tend to agree with this point.

Graahoeje/Vulgaria/Guzzer certainly represent 3 of the best countries 
that Europe/Australia have to offer. But do Redline/Ultima/Revelstone
represent the best that America has?

I'd think that a better team would be Mirkwood/Afrika Korps/Dorsai.
but that is my opinion, and is entirely based on the experiences I've
had while playing with/against these people.

Would people be happier if there were larger teams?
(note by teams I mean teams of countries, not just one country per side)

So in effect I'm saying that perhaps the teams still need to be decided.
Ie, perhaps we might after all end up with:

Graahoeje/Vulgaria/Finland/Guzzer/Dr.Bob/Afrika Korps (he's a euro right?)

.vs.

Mirkwood/EVIL_EMPIRE/Revelstone/Dorsai/Redline/Lersing

Certainly there are enough good players out there that we won't lack for
finding enough qualifiers. And with the american egos vs the european pride
(with the aussies havin' a bit of both!) we shan't lack for volunteers.

So please, let's get some talk going about "fair" parameters and who's
playing, world size, update times, and etu rates.

I originally proposed 1 50 etu per 6 days 16 hours.
Vulgaria suggested every 4 days.
Ultima wanted two 60 etu updates a week with the europeans deciding the
time of one, and the americans deciding the time of the other.

I tend to agree with this idea as I'm not fond of rotating updates.
But we'll see when players are available, and what they are agreaable to.

One thing though, BOTH sides will have to make some concessions.

-michaelf