HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman)
Subject: Re: Being a Master?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 03:00:49 GMT

skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:

>jnishina@nyx.cs.du.edu (John Nishinaga) writes:


>>operbwt@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Barry Trottier) writes (in partial):
>> 
>>>What makes one a master at SF2 or SF2CE?
>>>
>>>Could you masters out there please explain!
>> 
>>Alas, a master by *MY* definition is a person who consistantly plays "perfect"
>>games.  "Perfect" games are those where the player does everything he is
>>supposed to do and times everything correctly.  Thus, all counters are done at
>>the proper distance, all potential throws are always done, and patience is a
>>virtue.  The determining factors between two masters is usually who is quicker
>>and luckier.
>> 
>>It's very difficult to be master of a single character, much less a total
>>master of the game.  I personally screw up (mis-time) too often to be labled
>>as a master, even though I do know the most, if not all the counters for my
>>characters.  (Simply knowing what to do isn't enough -- you need to have to
>>good timing/reflexes.)

>	I must disagree here.  While doing everything you are supposed to and
>	knowing all the counters along with an excellent sense of timing are
>	certainly a part of it, we have a _lot_ of these types at UIUC.  You
>	can watch them play a "perfect" round, they will not have made any 
>	mistakes that you could name, but they will lose.  Case in point:
>	Master Sagat's tend to be the ones who do all their moves seemingly
>	perfectly, they do not throw FB foolishly, they have excellent timing, 
>	and the "deep" TU as well as mastery over any other technique you 
>	could concievably test for.  I can beat these guys with Ryu, who IMO,
>	is at a character disadvantage in this match up.  How?  I think there
>	is a certain quality of utter unpredictability which is essential to 
>	win consistently.  A lot of Guile's are perfect pattern Guile's (this
>	is not so much to say that they play a set pattern, they are just 
>	unimaginative) they land combo's perfectly, they know all the spacings
>	and priorites, yet sometimes you may see somebody walk in and trash 
>	them.  What did he do?  It is very difficult to put your finger on, but
>	I think it is just a sort of "craziness".  You should see some of the
>	places like this.  You go in, and everyone is nearing perfect executin
>	of every technique, matches are always close, and a couple of them are
>	just slightly better than the others.  I have an easy time with these 
>	types in general, for no reason I could ever hope to put into words.
>	This has not been very coherent, I just thought I had to say that 
>	total mastery of techniques and perfect timing alone do not a master
>	make.

>		Seth Killian

Maybe everyone here is a master !! :)

>>--
>>John Nishinaga - jnishina@nyx.cs.du.edu
-- 
 Kenneth C. Wang	| University Of Illinois Champaign-Urbana	
 			| Internet: c-wang@uiuc.edu			
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (This Space for Rent)
Subject: Getting out of Handcuffs FAKE
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:50:50 GMT

I think this is old news, but I haven't seen it listed on any of the
recent SPECIAL special moves guides.  There is a way to throw your
opponent back into handcuffs right after you throw him out of it.  It
looks very funny.  The opponent wraps around Guile's strong throw and
then gets stuck on the other side in handcuffs again!  What a psyche!

Anyway, here's step by step ugly detail about getting into handcuffs,
throwing out of handcuffs back into handcuffs, and finally throwing
out of handcuffs for good.  I can do all of these moves fairly consistently,
depending on the joystick condition.

Handcuffs:  Opponent freezes and sticks to Guile.
Charge for the razor kick.  Get very close to the opponent, touching at least.

  /  ,  O--  + [strong punch]  ,  O    +   [forward kick]
O                                   \

These joystick motions are to be done smoothly, like a razor kick motion,
but the button presses must be done when the joystick is in the above-stated
position.

That should get your opponent in the freeze.  When I do it against the
computer, I just get the computer dizzy first.  I can also do it against
non-dizzied opponents, but it's a bit harder to get that close with a charged
razor kick.

Throwing out of handcuffs back into handcuffs:  The opponent looks like
he's going to get strong thrown out of handcuffs, but instead winds up
back in handcuffs after the move is completed!

Charge for the magic throw.

Do the magic throw, as shown below.  If you can't do the magic throw,
then forget about getting out of the handcuffs.
  /   ,   --O   + [roundhouse kick],  [fierce punch]
O

Immediately after doing the magic throw, do this set of joystick motions:

--O (Last position from magic throw)  ,

  O     O     O     
/   ,   |   ,   \   ,   O--  ,   /  
                               O

Those joystick motions don't have to be done very quickly.  As long as you
wrap around back to defensive crouch before the throw completes, you'll
do the get-out-of-handcuffs-fake.  I haven't experimented with short-cuts
to this move, but the above joystick motions work consistently for me.

After you've amused your opponent and any onlookers sufficiently, simply
throw you opponent out of handcuffs with the magic throw (listed above).

I don't know why people actually complain when I magic throw them.  I
mean, it's not like they had a chance to win at all if I play Guile on
classic.  At least they could enjoy the scenery.  SF2-classic is a silly
game, and not to be taken very seriously.

SF2-CE is getting closer to being a real 'competitive sport' game, but
it's still a silly game.
-- 
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek)                      el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Guys with long sigs are just trying to compensate for something...
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (This Space for Rent)
Subject: Re: Good of ticking [please read]
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 07:58:25 GMT

bigdave@vermont.tdd.sj.nec.com (David Sweeney  x2987) writes:

>Is this "no-throw" rule very widespread?  I've never run into it on the 
>West Coast.  Although the jab-throw variety of ticking is frowned upon in
>most arcades, throws are a big part of the game around here.  With the 
>increased counterthrowing ability in the CE, I'm surprised such an amazingly 
>dull rule even exists.  I can't imagine not being able to have the honor
>of walking up and biting a hiding Guile...

It seems to me that the majority of the Chicagoland area follows "No-Throw"
rules.  They are very strict about this.  Walking under an opponent and
throwing is cheap, throwing them as they fall down from a DP is cheap.  The
only times when throwing is legal is when the opponent is dizzy.  Ironic,
but that's only time when you DON'T throw... you do a combo!  And some have
gone so far as to call combos cheap because you can't block (DUH!  That's
the point!)

>Dave Sweeney     bigdave@tdd.sj.nec.com
-- 
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek)                      el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
If you have nothing good to say, sit down, shut up, and post to USENET.
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: kchchang@remus.rutgers.edu (kai chang)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Some questions...
Date: 17 Dec 92 07:37:26 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


	First, how do you get 4 hits out of Dragon Punch?
	Second, how do do 2 dragon punches back to back?  Wheneven I
tried, I always got a dragon punch and a fireball.	
	Third, what do you do with Vega when when playing aginst a Ken
that just fireballs you to death?  (and DP)
	Forth, I know you can HK over a fireball with Ryu.  Is such
possible with Chun-Lee?  Ken?  
	Fifth, is the same possible with Sonic Boom?  
	Sixth, who's the best character aginest Ken?  Another Ken?
Guile?
	Any answers, PLEASE reply privatly.  Because I probably won't
get the answer if you post it in public.

	
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Honda?
Keywords: honda
Organization: University of North Texas, Denton
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:24:38 GMT

In article <jabernet.724268614@husc8> jabernet@husc8.harvard.edu (J. Abernethy) writes:
>
>	I have read several articles concerning sf2 on the net, and most
>of them seem to be centered on Ken, Ryu, and Blanka.... But what's wrong
>with Honda??? I've been using Honda for quite a while now, and the only
>player who gives me trouble now is Guile. (that is, when he does his
>forward sweep, blade kick if I jump, sonic boom if I don't).  Other than
>that, the Pillsbury Doughboy is an awesome character.

   What about the old fireball, rounhouse trip him as he jumps in.  Honda
CAN'T jump a jab fireball (so I've been told and seen).  So if he jumps in
he gets tripped.  How does he beat this?  Just curious...

Ciao...


Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: sh30443@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Shiva the Destoyer)
Subject: Re: SF2 regulars at UIUC.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:00:36 GMT

WAAAAAAAHHHHH.  I'm not even mentioned, and I hold my own against the masters.
WAAAAAAAHHHHH!

Jen "Executive SF2"

P.S.  You guys forgot to mention Joe Goudrou, sagat/guile/dhalsim player.
      He whoops butt too.


Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: dphantom@triton.unm.edu (darlene an  92sep02 lawry)
Subject: Re: Da guy wit Da Big Bad SFII Moves List
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 09:27:10 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Dec16.181810.782@whscdp.whs.edu> stdnt163@whscdp.whs.edu writes:
>
>
>	A reply to da guy wit da big bad SFII moves list:  If you know the Boss
>special moves, why don't you know Chun Li's reverse flip kick or Guile's flying
>knee attack?  Before you POST a moves list, make sure it is a COMPLETE moves
>list!
>
>					Me (You're better off knowing me as     
>					    just that!!!)  

To post a complete moves list takes a lot of effort.  If you wish to ADD
to the guy's move list, feel free.  Otherwise, just relax.  Geeze.

---Phantom
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: dphantom@triton.unm.edu (darlene an  92sep02 lawry)
Subject: Re: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 02:08:29 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

>>>strong punch, fierce punch (close range one), interrupted by lightning kick.
>>>I've seen this performed perfectly on Zangief only once.  And even then,
>>>I was "helping" to start the lightning kick.  If the lightning kick were
>>>have some impressive combos involving lightning kicks.  As it is, her

Ming:  I guess the above statment ^ confused me.  Are you saying that Chun's
wind kick can be truely combo'ed?  If so, I must still disagree.  I will
grant you that her palm push + wind kick is much more reliable, but that
seems to be only because the former *pushes* your opponent away, making
DP's and other moves either outta range or very difficult (because a
character is in motion, thus timing is, well, intersting, not to mention
the lasting effect of the palm push as far as animation execution time).
I dunno, maybe the combonation of all that is enough to make it uncounterable,
but I don't think so.  A simple sweeping roundhouse might still reach...but
I'll have to experiment some...I know it'll still reach with any jumping in
wind kick combo you try, because Chun's still too close.

>
>It's not a combo after you come in with the lightning kick after a
>flying fierce.  I didn't say that it was.  Try it after a standing
>fierce (close range).  The 'palm press'/lightning kick is an impressive
>TRUE combo and cannot be SPD, roundhouse kicked or even DP-ed if done
>correctly.  However, the problem is, is that it's very difficult to
>do the move correctly.
>

BTW, why is it so difficult to do correctly?  I can do the palm push no
problem...and considering howlong it takes to execute I should think
buffering the wind kick would be no problem....?
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon)
Subject: Re: Ryu's Triple
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 20:33:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.011724.9370@iscsvax.uni.edu> holmes7000@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>All the stuff about Ryu not being to do the triple is bull.  I played a Ryu
>master tonight and he did the triple when I was starred to finish me off.  He
>did it while standing.  I've done it with a jumping Fierce, fierceDP a few
>times.  Granted I usually don't get the third because it usually knocks them
>down on the first hit of the dragon punch, but it has happened.  

You must be hallucinating.  First off, a Flying fierce + Standing fierce +
Dp is _not_ a triple DP...it's just a combo.  A triple DP is a combo executed
_entirely_ on the ground.  It's usually a fierce (cruched or standing) + a
two hit DP.  The _only_ conditions under which Ryu can get three hits are these

1) Opponent's in the corner
2) Ryu stnads _right_ next to opponent and does a fierce + Firece DP
3) DP hits once, and does _not_ knowck opponent down
4) Opponent jumps up and gets smacked 1 additional time (3 hits total)

4) Makes this not a combo, therefore not a triple DP. QED

>-Brando
>
---
T. Cannon


Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: jbw@ponder.csci.unt.edu (WEST JASON BRUCE)
Subject: Re: Even more Bison (was: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death)
Organization: University of North Texas, Denton
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 06:31:23 GMT

In article <tmorris.724072366@tasman> tmorris@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris) writes:
>jbw@ponder.csci.unt.edu (WEST JASON BRUCE) writes:
>
>>>I wish they'd make it where I can duck under it at least, if it's gonna take
>>>off 5 or 6 clicks of energy when blocking.  Just take away the penetration 
>
>>   First, it would be more worthless than it currently is if you could
>>duck it.  It would have *no* use.  Second, it DOES NOT take off 5 or 6
>>clicks of energy - I don't understand why people insist on saying that.
>>It's never taken off more than 4 on me - and ussually 3.  If you turn around
>>while blocking in the middle of his body you will take less hits - almost
>>negligable actually.  
>
>I was watching a Blanka vs. Bison match.  At the start of the round, Blanka
>scored with his legendary crouching telescopic-arm fierce punch.  Bison
>responded with a torpedo, which the Blanka player blocked.  The blocked
>torpedo did more damage than Blanka's fierce punch!  This is clearly
>ridiculous.

   A special move doing more than a normal move?  What's the problem?
A blocked Chun Li lightning kick does more damage than that - so what's the
problem?

>>That's why I say it takes off as much as a block
>>Ryu HK.  Have ryu do a roundhouse HK to you while you stand block, watch
>>the ticks come off.  Try this in the corner and watch ever MORE ticks come
>>off.  Although this would be a stupid thing to do, it is just for arguments
>>sake.  Read my other post for why ducking Ryu's HK is a stupid option.
>
>I disagree - the guy on the ground always has the edge when it comes to
>throwing Ryu as he comes down from the cyclone kick.  Ryu's cyclone is
>so slow, you can dragon punch it anyway - just hit jab (crouching) then
>quickly DP.

   I love the way everyone assumes your are playing Ken/Ryu.  Sorry, but,
Dhalsim can't dp.  But don't bother telling me how to get out of the
situation, I just head-spin him.

>
>--
>Tim Morris
>


Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: "sf2ibm" wanted DESPERATELY!!
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:09:02 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

In article <1992Dec17.162715.7831@julian.uwo.ca> dtmlee@gfx.engga.uwo.ca (David Lee) writes:
>     Would someone please mail me a copy of the playable "sf2ibm" (the
>one that can only show Ryu and Guile).  I have the key stokes files
>(for Chun Li, Blanka and so on) only.  I really appreciate that.
>     Thank You!

There is a new version out. Ryu, Guile and the green thing 8). Plus they
are more realistic in the movements, and much harder to beat. Some new
backgrounds, new music etc... I dont have it here, but i can search a
little more. With Gravis Ultrasound support and some tidying, this
could really be more like the real thing... (plus joystick support).

As for the image quality, i suggest to get a vga to ntsc converter and
plug it on a TV. It looks more like the arcade... I mean, the colors are
more uniform, the image is less grainy etc...

And BTW, for all the people who were saying that the game could not
be made on an IBM, it's getting better and better and there is still a
lot of CPU cycles wasted on my 386-33 in non turbo (16 mhz) and even
with my SB emulator for the GUS, QEMM and a virus watcher, it runs at
full speed. So making it 386-33 would permit at least twice the fps...

Ciao,
--
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: hogue@cs.arizona.edu (Justin C. Hogue)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: Sagat guide request
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:28:34 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <Bz9Jn3.886@news.cso.uiuc.edu> caine@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dark Lord of the Sith) writes:
>
>>Anyway, is there a Sagat strategy guide out there? Thanks in advance...
>
>would be lacking...I have never seen a Sagat master, not even here.  Guys?
>Help me on this one.
>
  This must be my 3rd post in a row....
I have only seen one "master" at Sagat, and he's damn good.  He has no E-mail
address I'm afraid.  Just replying to the "never seen a Sagat master", as I 
can't get any guide--sorry.
--Jowfus
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: tmorris@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris)
Subject: Re: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 10:50:21 GMT

> [Stacks of unrelated stuff the last guy didn't bother deleting, deleted]

>   Talk about missing the damn point.  FOr the last time I am whining about
>nothing.  I am simply stating the lack of balance in Ken/Ryus ability to
>kill you off one hit.  Not "take half your energy" - but kill you. And Ryu's
>3 hit does stun if you do it right.  I was just getting so sick of everyone
>calling Bison "cheap" when Ken/Ryu obviosly have more unbalanced abilities.

Bison is cheap, because all his effective strategies rely on high-power,
no-skill moves.  If you're holding the machine using skill with, say,
Honda, and some guy punches in with Bison, then you *know* what to 
expect - torpedo/throw, scissor-kick combo, scissor-kick/throw, headstomp/
throw.  There's nothing wrong with that per se - these are Bison's best
manouvers, it's just that any other character that relied on these
techniques to win would also be flamed just as Bison is.  If someone
challenges with Ken, then in the back of your mind you're wary of
the 4-hitter, bun Ken will rarely land this combo on you if you're
any good.  Sure, it's not balanced that he has the potential.  But
with Bison, the cheese is flying thick and fast from the word go
until the end of the round, no matter who wins.  I'm just thankful
that I can pick Guile or Ryu and beat most Bison's, imagine what
it's like for the intermediate players who don't stand a chance.

--
Tim Morris
From: hogue@cs.arizona.edu (Justin C. Hogue)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Masterity time
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:38:11 GMT


  Please ignore the spelling in the subject, but I was wondering how long
it takes people to master a character, and if you are a master at more that
one, how long did the others take?  Trying not to be cocky or humble, I
stand at
   ~8 months for Honda
   ~4 months for Zangief
And I am better with Z now.  What about Y'all.
--Jowfus
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: tmorris@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris)
Subject: Re: 411 please
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:52:43 GMT

el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (This Space for Rent) writes:

>> Try this [jab-throw ticking] against the computer on Classic (NOT CE). 

>Actually, DO try it on CE.  You'll never get good at ticking if you can't
>tick the computer on CE.  Honda is still able to miraculous counter my
>ticks, but for the most part I am fairly successful against the other
>characters.  

Of all the characters, I think CE Honda is the most fun to tick, mainly
because of his great (well, miraculous) anti-ticking skills.  The thing
about CE characters is that most of 'em will quite happily sac throw you,
meaning players starting out on CE get trashed a lot more than they should,
all because of the evils perpetrated by us way back in the days of
Classic and ticking the computer to death.  Hee hee.  It's a pity the
computer never gets cut and ticks back.

>>A sac-throw is when you purposely take a hit to throw your opponent.  If 
>>someone is putting the press on you and you want to get him away from you, wal
>>into a jumping kick, then throw.  It's called a sacrifice throw because you 
>>take a hit.

>Generally not a good idea to do purposefully.  You're likely to get comboed
>if you're playing anyone good.

Hmmm... if someone jumps in and kicks you in the top of the head, then I
think the sac throw is always on, although deliberately dropping your block
is just inviting the other guy to hit you low and combo you.  You still
find the odd Ken/Ryu foolish enough to jump in with the short knee though.

>-- 
>Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek)                      el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
>Guys with long sigs are just trying to compensate for something...

--
Tim Morris (has a sig significantly shorter than CyberGeek's...)

Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: caine@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lord of the Sith)
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 07:30:23 GMT

inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes:

>>[My remarks deleted...]

>Really?   I think it's the other way around; Sagat has a slight advantage 
>against Ken, and falls a bit behind Ryu.  The deciding factor is the
>difference between the two's fireballs;  Ken's recovery time is so slow
>that Sagat can jump over and smack him without having to anticipate the
>fireball.  Against Ryu, Sagat gets DPed.  So, a defensive Sagat can take out
>Ken without too much trouble.  

>ON ANOTHER NOTE...
>------------------

>Now that the 'Ryu fireball' thread has died down, how's about discussing 
>Sagat's low 'tigerball' trap.  I tried it for the first time today, and
>it seems to be just as (if not more) effective than Ryu's trap.  It's basic
>execution is exactly like Ryu's (i.e. stand about 3/4 of the screen away
>from your opponent when he's in the corner and assault him with a barrage
>of low tigers.)  Any comments?

  Ok.  About Ken.  After some more thought, I would have to say that I 
*dislike* fighting Ken with Sagat.  I don't like fighting against the DP of
his, but I like fighting with it.  To me, Ryu is an easier fight.  I happen
to play the defensive Sagat, and the only thing that really troubles me is
the "deep" uppercut.  Once I get that down, I should be more dangerous.
However, it easy to fall into playing a pattern Sagat, and some Ryu players
here (yeah, you Seth) are figuring this out.  Grrrrr...

  Fireball trap?  I don't think so.  His FB speed is amazing, but the low
firebird is way easy to avoid for Ken/Ryu.  Nothing a short HK can't fix.
Guile has his problems...two low firebirds usually do the trick (roundhouse).
Most players that can propel their bodies (ie. Honda, Bison, etc.) also
should have any problems in escaping...  The FB trap usually gets started,
but it is broken by mixing up high- and low-tigers.  I doubt it can be
sustained as Ryu's can.  Other comments?

Ken is #1.
Caine Schneider

Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2