HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stewarte@sco.COM (nothing a bullet in the belly couldn't cure)
Subject: Re: Compuserve
Organization: Captain Napalm's Thermonuclear League of Liberty
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:58:53 GMT


Joan of Arc was burned for claiming that murray@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com (Charlie Murray) said:

>What it boils down to is this.  CompuServe, and services like them, are
>available to ANYONE who has the right equipment.  Usenet is only available
>to those individuals who are fortunate enough to gain access through a
>university, government organization, or company willing to pay for the
>connection.  There are not enough local Usenet access nodes around the country
>to provide connections for all individuals, and those that exist, all charge
>subscription fees for connect time ala CompuServe.
>
>As I have said before, Usenet is NOT free.  It is funded by the NSF using
>federal money, and paid for by companies (to the tune of around $10,000/year).
>
>All of you with "free" access to usenet, ask yourselves this.  If you didn't
>have this access, what would you do?  CompuServe is a reasonable alternative
>to those of us faced with this question.

In a previous article, I said that I now understood why some people
put notices on their Usenet articles stating that they could not be
reproduced on services like Compuserve.  I didn't mean to advocate that
position, only to say that I could understand the feelings that must
lead to it.  While I wish that there could be two-way communication
between homebrewers on Compuserve and homebrewers on Usenet, it's clear
that adding such notices would either have no effect at all (as some 
have suggested) or just cut off Compuserve subscribers from that 
information.  It is Compuserve's policy that seems unfair (albeit not
surprising); we have nothing against homebrewers who subscribe.

However, I'm curious about the nature of the Compuserve agreement.
While grabbing entire chunks of the forum and reposting them seems
clearly a no-no, individual authors _do_ retain ownership of their
own articles, don't they?  I saw at least one article in a recent
Zymurgy that said it had originally appeared on Compuserve, so it's
not that all the postings become property of Compuserve.  This would
seem to imply that individual authors could resend articles to the
HBD or to rec.crafts.brewing.  If so, maybe we could ask homebrewers
on Compuserve to forward articles they've written which they're
especially proud of (and which make sense out of context) -- e.g.,
those recipes that turned out Really Great, etc.  It should be possible
for Compuserve subscribers to send directly to the HBD, and as that
is in turn posted to r.c.b. it offers wider access than posting directly
to r.c.b.

Or maybe this is already done, and I just haven't noticed?  

-- Stewart
-- 
"A cold noodle is like a dog without fur...recognizable, 
 but very unpleasant."
				-- Gever Tully (gever@xaos.com)
/*  uunet!sco!stewarte  -or-  stewarte@sco.COM  -or-  Stewart Evans  */
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: Compuserve
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:42:02 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL

 
 Article 7573 (102 more) in rec.crafts.brewing:
 From: pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc)
 
 >Guess what, in the real world, nodody's heard of Usenet, 
 Internet or newsgroups.
 
 I have often toyed with the idea of somehow promoting it but 
 as there is no money in it, there is little motive. 
 
 > Compuserve is everywhere, provides excellent service from
 your home, be it with an Apple or a NeXt, an 8080 or a 486. 
 
 The same is true of usenet.  pubnet.nixpub has a list of 
 several hundred public access unix sites that are available 
 for peanuts to anyone with a modem.  There are four or five 
 of them in my local calling area and the subscription ranges 
 from free to $80 a year.
 
 >Finally it is not that expensive, since a typical session 
 takes only 2-5 minutes on-line, and all the time-consuming 
 reading and writing is done off-line.
 
 Even if you can do it in five minutes that's still more than 
 $1 a day plus monthly fee or about $40 a month compared to 
 $80 a year for unlimited time on usenet.
 
 Not sure how you can download all the messages in the beer 
 fora in 5 minutes but you still have to log back on and 
 upload your responses, if you choose to respond.   I suspect 
 about ten minutes a day is more typical and now we are 
 talking about $70 a month and haven't even thought about the 
 other hundreds of fora that we all like to participate in on 
 usenet.  To do on Compuserve, what I do on usenet, would 
 easily cost me $200 a month and I do most my reading and 
 writing off line.
 
 I would also point out that the university connections on 
 usenet brings a technical expertise to many discussions that 
 Compuserve can't even come close to.
 
 >Finally, people appear to be somewhat more relaxed, less 
 prone to fly off the handle at any minute than here.
 
 Aint that the truth.
 
 Maybe it says something about people with money or more 
 likely, about intellectuals.
 
 js

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: can@mitre.org (Chris Nissen)
Subject: Re: Yes, Virginia, It Will Clear! (Wyeast 1007)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:48:52 GMT

In article <01050166.ldda6o@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us>,
joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall) writes:
> 

> 
> Just a thought for those of you out there who don't want to give your
> beer a couple of months to itself.
> 

After making something on the order of 20 all-grain batches and possibly
another 10 or 15 extract batches prior to this, I thought I had finally
created a total failure in my last batch.  I is a Munich Helles.  After a
45 day lager period, I tapped the key and .....    was extremely
discouraged to find that it was a sweet, cloudy, mess.  I gave up thinking
I had messed up the mash.  However, after another 2 months of lagering, it
cleared to a brilliant straw color, the taste became fantastic, and both my
wife and I agree it is superior to the Marzen I was finishing.  Just goes
to show,
NEVER give up on the brew as long as it isn't infected and the primary
fermentation went
OK.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: fse@phx.mcd.mot.com ()
Subject: Re: Madison, WI brewpubs
Reply-To: phx.mcd.mot.com!fse@phx.mcd.mot.com ()
Organization: Motorola Microcomputer Group
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:51:05 GMT

In article <SUBOTIC.92Dec14103752@osl440a.erim.org> subotic@osl440a.erim.org (Nik Subotic) writes:
>Hi there,
>
>I'll be in the central Wisonsin area over Christmass and was wondering
>if there were any brewpubs in the Madison area.  Any help would be
>appreciated!


I hate to say this, but...   ME TOO!
I'll be in the LaCrosse/Tomah area for a week and a half freezing my #$#
off and would also like to know of breweries/micros/brewpubs I may visit.

Please post
Thanks..
Stan


Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: murray@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com (Charlie Murray)
Subject: Re: COMPUSENET DEC 10
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:57:01 GMT
Organization: IBM, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina

In article <606@ssdc.UUCP>, jbasara@ssdc.UUCP (Jim Basara) writes:
|> ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Christopher Mauritz) writes:
|> : What good does that do?  You have absolutely no means of enforcing 
|> : such restrictions.  I too am a bit annoyed that Compuserve takes
|> : advantage of the net without providing any services in return,
|> : but there doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it.  I feel
|> : the same way about those leaches who make CD-ROMs out of FTP
|> : archives and sell them.
|> : 
|> 
|> Maybe if we all put "Compuserve SUCKS" and "you can get News for free" in 
|> our .sig files, the crossposting would stop.
|> 
|> just a thought
|> 
|> --
|> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> Jim Basara
|>      uunet!ssdc!jbasara                "All the other nations are drinking
|>      jbasara%ssdc@uunet.uu.net         Ray Charles beer, and we are drinking
|>                                        Barry Manilow." - Dave Barry

Why don't you ask your employer Sterling Software IMD, how "free" usenet
access is.  If you had to pay the bill, you wouldn't be so quick to judge.
Don't be a usenet bigot just because it doesn't come out of your pocket.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Charlie Murray           CompuServe:  73707,1752
  Consulting at IBM        Internet:    73707.1752@compuserve.com

  NOTE:  If sending email use the addresses given in this .sig,
         not the one in the header of this message.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: larrylf@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Larry Lynch-Freshner)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:57:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Brewing, other things besides beer???
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing

My immediate thoughts for 'alternate brews' are: Saki, Cider, and Mead.

Larry L-F
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: cush@kq.msc.edu (R. Cushing Hamlen)
Subject: recipe formulator for Macintosh?
Reply-To: cush@msc.edu
Organization: Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:23:41 GMT

Does anyone know where I can get my hands on a recipe formulator for
the Macintosh?  I have looked in the Archives, and cannot identify one.

If so, please respond via e-mail.  I do not get the time to read r.c.b
much anymore...:-(

Thanks!
Cush.

cush@msc.edu
From: mark@verdix.com (Mark Lundquist)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: ?!?->"DME"<-?!?
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:46:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: verdix.9258
Organization: Verdix Western Operations, Aloha  OR

In article <1gisvqINNs1t@hp-col.col.hp.com> rcm@col.hp.com (hpctdfc) writes:
>> But as I'm sure you could see from reading the rest of my article, I
 > had been under the impression that diastatic malt extract was a
 > supplement, rather than the bulk of the extract for a batch.
 > Anyway...I do apprectiate the correction, even though I don't
 > apprectiate you making me look like a doofus by responding to my
 > comments out of context!
 
 It's not out of context if the context (article) wasn't there for me
 to read - I assume you mean you posted another article that had
 already been deleted from my system - no doof-ing was intended.
 I don't know why you would say that Edme dark wasn't available just
 because you couldn't find it...

Well, I'll tell you why...I *assumed* it!  The power of my
mistaken-ness was of such force that I could not concieve of the
existence of such a thing!  Next time I'll try to remember, as Mark
Twain said: "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as much
as you please." (Or as Benny Hill said, "Never ASSUME, it makes an
"ASS" out of "U" and "ME"!)

>Well, I don't know anybody who uses it as just a supplement, even
 though that is probably what is was intended for.  I personally
 know many brewers who use it as the base for all their brews...
 I must have missed your supplement impression...

I've read that the guy ("Alexander"?) who makes Alexander's malt
extract uses a low-pressure evaporation process, so that the wort is
subjected to as little heat as possible (resulting in a Pale Malt
Extract that is actually pale!)  I wonder how much of the enzymes are
preserved using that process, and consequently whether this malt
extract would work better for partial mash recipes, esp. those that
call for Cara-Pils, Munich malt, etc.

'Later,
--mark
From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Tubing [Re: Gleaming immersion chiller]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 02:02:58 EDT
Organization: 5 Sigma Software
Reply-To: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v5


In article <1992Dec16.164811.7327@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> (rec.crafts.brewing), trevathan@ppd.jsc.nasa.gov (Joseph R. Trevathan) writes:
) Briefly paraphrased for relative magnitudes evidence:
) k for copper:  232 (mess/o' units)
) k for 300 and 400 series stainless steel:  ~10
) k for aluminum:  130
) k for silver:  242

OK, so post the number for titanium, wouldja?

) Now if you could find some silver tubing......:-)

Hmm.  Sure would cut down on the risk of bacterial infection if you
could keep some silver ions in your brew.  ;-P

=======================================================================
uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
Copyright 1992 by Joseph N. Hall.   Permission granted to copy and
redistribute freely over USENET and by email.  Commercial use prohibited.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: murray@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com (Charlie Murray)
Subject: Re: Compuserve
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:20:01 GMT
Organization: IBM, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina

In article <1992Dec16.053611.12304@moliere.uucp>, pmk@moliere.uucp (Peter Michael Klausler) writes:
|> In article <pp-r8h#@lynx.unm.edu> schaker@carina.unm.edu (Stefan Yen Chakerian) writes:
|> >
|> >This article is NOT copyrighted.  It is in the public domain.
|> >Copuserve or any other rip-off service may archive this and feed it
|> >to their rich, naive, or both subscribers.  I hope they make
|> >$1,000,000.36 off it, too, and congrats because I didn't think of
|> >starting up such a service first.
|> 
|> Compuserve is certainly within their rights to provide Usenet postings
|> to their subscribers. And they may apply any restrictions they like
|> to the contents of their forums. The subscribers to these services
|> agree with the restrictions, or they wouldn't pay for the service.
|> 
|> From the excerpts of Compuserve's homebrewing forum that were copied
|> here to rec.crafts.brewing, it would seem that they have polite and
|> worthwhile content. I would like to see it, and I wish that its
|> posters would participate instead on free networks and the mailing lists;
|> but the use of Compuserve is certainly their choice.
|> 
|> I do wish that the AHA would not promote Compuserve as heavily as they do,
|> though. Use of anarchic free networks would seem to be more in tune with
|> the independent spirit of homebrewing, if you will, than the use of a large
|> commercial service. Indeed, in the most recent Zymurgy, they advertised
|> Compuserve and made passing mention of the Homebrew Digest, ignoring
|> Usenet altogether.
|> -- 
|> ________________________________________________________________________________
|> 
|> "Omit needless words."                 Peter Klausler - pmk%moliere@uunet.uu.net


What it boils down to is this.  CompuServe, and services like them, are
available to ANYONE who has the right equipment.  Usenet is only available
to those individuals who are fortunate enough to gain access through a
university, government organization, or company willing to pay for the
connection.  There are not enough local Usenet access nodes around the country
to provide connections for all individuals, and those that exist, all charge
subscription fees for connect time ala CompuServe.

As I have said before, Usenet is NOT free.  It is funded by the NSF using
federal money, and paid for by companies (to the tune of around $10,000/year).

All of you with "free" access to usenet, ask yourselves this.  If you didn't
have this access, what would you do?  CompuServe is a reasonable alternative
to those of us faced with this question.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Charlie Murray           CompuServe:  73707,1752
  Consulting at IBM        Internet:    73707.1752@compuserve.com

  NOTE:  If sending email use the addresses given in this .sig,
         not the one in the header of this message.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: ulick@michaelangelo.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: Couple of quick questions...
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:12:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.064340.3528@nic.csu.net> steve@csufres.CSUFresno.EDU (Steve Mitchell) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.193702.23442@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> pepke@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes:
>>I would strongly suggest that you not pour hot wort into your fermenter, 
>>for a number of reasons:
>>
>>1) Oxidation
>>The more you slosh hot wort about, the more likely it is to oxidize.  This 
>>causes it to taste bad.
>
>Not true (in that, oxidation is not a bad thing).  Your yeast need
>oxygen during the initial phases of fermentation.

Yes the COOL wort needs to be aerated.  Hot wort will be oxidized by sloshing
it about and so should not be sloshed till it is cool.  Also, hot wort has 
much lower solubility for gases than cool wort.  However, the taste will
probably not be too badly impaired.  The oxidation risk is overdone IMHO, 
though I have still to read Fix's article in the new Zymurgy.  But safety
is a very good reason not to pour hot wort anywhere.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: peterm@dtc.hp.com (Sweet Pete)
Subject: Re: Marmite [Re: feeding yeast with yeast]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:01:05 GMT
Organization: Where No Man Has Gone Before

In article <01050166.laenjv@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us> joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us writes:
>
>
>Scary, isn't it, the thought of a nation where kids are brought up
>eating Vegemite instead of peanut butter?
>

Lay off it, mate!  We're brought up eating Vegemite AND peanut butter, 
although not necessarily at the same time.

	Peter
-- 
Peter C. Maxwell,                      ARPA:   peterm@dtc.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Company,
5301 Stevens Creek Blvd, MS 53U/36,    UUCP:   ..!hplabs!aoraki!peterm
Santa Clara, CA 95052-8059             (408) 553 2512
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: kral@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Joseph Kral)
Subject: Re: Gleaming immersion chiller
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:11:18 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA

In article <1992Dec15.234406.1@nickel.laurentian.ca> g1400023@nickel.laurentian.ca writes:
>I also have a gleaming immersion chiller after I boil it in the wort.
>I like to think that it is reducing back to copper...it makes me feel
>better.
>
>However, I once tried sanitizing it in a bleach and water and it did
>not come out gleaming. But once I pull it out of my pot containing the 
>wort it chilled it came out gleaming.
>
>The water here is moderate...not to hard and not to soft, but just right
>after you run it through one of those waterpic filter things on the tap.
>
>My $0.02.....Carlo
>

Well, just a me too.  My chiller comes out bright and slightly pink.  I'm
pretty sure that its due to the acidity of the wort etching off the copper 
oxide.

FYI Carlo; your waterpic filter won't change the hardness of your water.

OK, I just asked the resident chemist here.  He says, I had it right. The
acidity etches off the copper oxide.  He says that all metals have an 
associated etch rate.  Stainless steel is very low and things like copper
are relatively high.  (This chemist is a former homebrewer also).

Joe.
From: bq840@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steven Zabarnick)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Is my water too hard?
Date: 15 Dec 1992 15:46:55 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I'm about to start my first ever attempt at home-brewing, but
I'm concerned about using our tap water. According to our city,
our water has a hardness of 420 mg/liter CaCO3. This seems quite
high compared with the discussions I've seen on the net. Is my
water to hard to make good beer?

Steve Zabarnick
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: kent@sparky.imd.sterling.com (Kent Landfield)
Subject: Re: COMPUSENET DEC 10
Organization: Sterling Software
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:59:56 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: faf9d6a6c8e75a36f0951be031bc9dc5

In article <1992Dec18.185701.7459@sernews.raleigh.ibm.com> murray@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com (Charlie Murray) writes:
>In article <606@ssdc.UUCP>, jbasara@ssdc.UUCP (Jim Basara) writes:
>|> Maybe if we all put "Compuserve SUCKS" and "you can get News for free" in 
>|> our .sig files, the crossposting would stop.
>|> 
>|> just a thought
>|> 
>Why don't you ask your employer Sterling Software IMD, how "free" usenet
>access is.  If you had to pay the bill, you wouldn't be so quick to judge.
>Don't be a usenet bigot just because it doesn't come out of your pocket.

I am not sure what you meant by this statement.  Speaking for Sterling
Software IMD, we are more than aware that USENET has never been free.  It
costs for modems, phone lines, disk space, CPU usage etc.  Sterling has been
receiving and paying for Netnews since 1986 and I have been reading and
administrating news since 1983. Sterling has also been providing newsfeeds
to sites in the local area at no cost to them since 1987. The perception 
that news is free is easy to make for those who have access to it via 
systems at work. 

If you have the equipment in place (modems, phone lines, disks) at home for 
other reasons, news can be received at extremely minimual costs as compared
to useage based services.  

I am not sure what this discussion hopes to accomplish.  You cannot influence
services such as CompuServe with such tactics and attitudes.  I'm also not
sure what this discussion is doing in rec.crafts.brewing...

			-Kent+
---
Kent Landfield                   INTERNET: kent@IMD.Sterling.COM
Sterling Software, IMD           UUCP:     uunet!sparky!kent
Phone:    (402) 291-8300         FAX:      (402) 291-4362
Please send comp.sources.misc-related mail to kent@uunet.uu.net.

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: toad@nmt.edu (Tod Landis)
Subject: books
Keywords: books
Organization: Electrical Eng. Dept. - New Mexico Tech
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:31:15 GMT

--Cran-stuff--
Cran-ras or cran-strawberry(cran-grape makes wine)
yeast (epernay is the best I've used so far)
stir together and ferment 3-4 days till bitterness has pretty well left. Rack. store in fridge a 
day and drink.

Yeah its quick and dirty but taste good and is VERY easy to make.

you expect perfection from an amphibian?!?
TOAD
From: daj20@amdahl.com (Daniel A Jatnieks)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Madison, WI brewpubs
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:56:32 GMT

daj20@amdahl.com (Daniel A Jatnieks) writes:


>	I think that the brewery that makes GartenBrau (Garden City
>	Brewing) has a brewpub in Middleton (just west of Madison).

oops, make that Capital Brewing ... what was I thinking???


danj.
--
dan jatnieks.                      i'll take these opinions if no-one else will.
daj20@ruts.ccc.amdahl.com

Seinfeld, Star Trek TNG, The Simpsons - that's all I need, I don't need anyth...
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing