HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Can a .22 Winchester Magnum revolver fire .22LR cartridge?
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:58:58 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <BzC2Mw.EBx@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:

[ about using a .22WMR in a .22LR firearm deleted ]
#As I recall from my short tenure with a Ruger Single Six .22lr/.22WMR, the
#.22WMR was the same diameter, only longer. You _could_ fire .22lr in a
#.22WMR, but it's not recommended, as the chamber for a .22WMR is significantly
#longer...that's why the Single Six comes with both .22lr and .22WMR
#cylinders.

The .22 WMR is larger in diameter.  You could chamber one in a .22LR
firearm but it would be most unwise to fire it as the case would
be unsupported.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: mcdphx!systemname!gcall@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (Glen Call)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re:  M16 horror stories
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:20:55 GMT
Organization: Motorola Computer Group Marketing


[stuff deleted]
|> #Sorry, Chris, but this is not always the case.  There are many documented cases
|> #of people being shot and NOT KNOWING.  It is not unusual for someone in the heat                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^
|> 
|> 	Is it really THAT common? I wouldn't have thought so.

Okay, I was just making a point.  You're right that most people are aware (if still alive!) that they have been shot.  Still, there are enough cases to refute
the assertion that "you are going to know it!".

Regarding the assertion that the .223 would overpenetrate, making it less than
optimal for "antipersonnel use":

The .223 has exhibited a tendency to bounce off of ribs, etc. and severely grind
up someone's innards before exiting.  This is what makes .223 wounds to the
torso or abdomen so nasty.  Larger rounds like the .308 often just plow right on
through with little or no expansion AND little or no deflection.

Now, before someone starts up the flame throwers, let me state that I'm neither
a trauma surgeon nor a forensics expert.  The above is what I've heard from
people who've witnessed what these rounds do.  If any of you know different,
post what you know or have heard.

Regards,
Glen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glen Call                          Technical Marketing Systems Engineer
Motorola Computer Systems, Inc.    gcall@phx.mcd.mot.com or mcdapps!gcall
DISCLAIMER: The above is strictly my opinion.  I DO NOT SPEAK FOR MOTOROLA!
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Pistol advice: part 2
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:16:05 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

spm2d@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Steven Miale) writes:
#Helwan 9mm Auto Mod 52 G/VG for $126.50
#	9mm is a common round, and from what I have heard,
#	this pistol is very reliable. It's also a semiauto.

Cheap ammo, cheap pistol.  I handled one and didn't care for
it that much, but it seems like a great deal if it works ok.
I'd reccomend it as a good buy it at a low price like that.

#S&W Model 19 .357 Magnum revolver, 4" barrel for $189.99
#	.357 is more powerful than 9mm from what I understand.
#	How about the other S&W's?

	I don't like their autoloaders, but the 19, like many
of their revolvers is ok.   That's a very good price for it.

#And some Ruger's:
#BN-34 Blackhawk 4 3/4" 90% blue for $190.00
#	The ad didn't mention caliber or whether it was
#	an semiautomatic or not. I believe it's .357.

	This is a "cowboy gun" single action (thumb cocking
only) revolver.    .357 is most commonly used in revolvers.


#BN-44 Blackhawk .45 colt, 4 5/8" blue for $228.95
#	Again, I don't know whether this is a semiauto
#	or not.

	Ditto.   .45 Colt is a revolver cartridge only.

#I've also heard that Astra's and Daewoo's are pretty good pistols,
#but I haven't heard much else about them, and I haven't seen anyone
#selling them in Shotgun News.

	I've never met anyone who's owned a Daewoo pistol, so I'd
be real cautious.  They are trying to enter the "bargain" market,
but until they establish a reputation, the safe bet is to assume
the unknowns are junk.   Astra .45 and 9mm A-90s are great, says me 
and some other happy owners.


Jim Del Vecchio
From: emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A gun in the home....
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:33:55 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <24417@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> kemasa@ghost.hac.com (Kemasa) writes:
#
#In article <19460@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
#
##Before showing the effect of a bullet
##on a melon, it might be advisable to have the child paint a face
##on the melon and to give it a name, let him lug the melon to the
##range, etc.  That way he'll have developed some degree of personal
##attachment to the melon and the demonstration will have shock
##value rather than being viewed as just good fun.
#
#I have a problem with this. It seems a bit cruel. Why not just use
#the kid's pet to really make a point? I am joking in this, but I
#don't think the idea is to terrify the kid and make the kid have
#nightmares, although a psychiatrist might appreciate it and I think
#the anti-gun people would too. I also don't think you want to
#give the idea that it is acceptable to point a gun at a person,
#even a fake watermelon person as in this case. I can understand
#using a watermelon, but not with a face drawn by the child and
#given a name!!!
[deleted]
#You do want to make the point that guns are dangerous and I think it
#is an idea to get the idea across that it *can* cause a lot of damage,
#but that when properly handled it is not a problem, although the
#child should not handle it unless a trained adult is present.
#The exact methods that should be used are unknown to me, but it
#sure would not be some of what I have heard.
#
#Am I alone in thinking that the above and not always using hearing
#protection is WRONG?

I don't think you are wrong. You'll either upset the child, or recoil
in horror from the ghoulish little monster who is cackling with glee
at the destruction of Mr. Watermelon. One reaction is as likely as
the other in a young child. I don't think you should introduce a youngster
to firearms until they *really* understand DEAD. Let them wring some
chicken's necks, pluck them, and eat them before you teach them about
guns. Or have them help you gut bambi first. If your kids aren't ready
for that, they aren't ready for guns.

Gary
From: glock@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Looking for 10mm recomendations
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:54:45 GMT
Organization: College of Business, University of Florida

In article <1992Dec13.181623.24877@erenj.com> crumrine@pxdvgx.erenj.com (MDCRUMR  Crumrine) writes:

#Hi all,

#I'm starting to consider a 10mm, and would be interested in any
#recomendations/experience.  Who has offerings in this calibur?

#Thanks in advance,

#mike

I have a Glock 20, and it is awesome.  I recommend it above the others for a 
number of reasons.

First, it is a Glock.  That means it is very tough, reliable, simple to use 
and clean, and has a high round capacity (15+1 10mm rounds).

Second, it can handle the "wimpy" FBI 10mm loads as well as the hottest 10mm 
supersonic rounds you can buy.

Third, it is one of the few 10mm that fire full velocity ammo with a fair 
amount of control.  Most 10mm have a nasty kick when using full velocity 
ammo; the Glock is not bad at all.  I can accurately shoot it one handed.

Fourth, the Glock is able to handle pressures that exceed the tolerances of 
other 10mm guns.  I talked to a Sheriff here in town who owns one of very 
model of Glock, and he likes his 10mm the most.  He loaded the weapon waaay 
beyond what you can get from factory ammo with no problems whatsoever.  He 
loaded one so hot that flame shot through the trigger slot and burned his 
finger; the Glock still cycled the round beautifully.  This same officer 
alternated .40 and 10mm in the same clip, and fired two clips without a 
problem.

The Glock 20 is an awesome weapon, and I highly recommend it.  However, 
there is a downside to it for some people; it is a large weapon.  It has a 
grip that is very chunky, and if you have small hands you will have a 
problem holding it.  I do not find its size detrimental to carrying 
concealed with a shoulder holster, but it is a bit big to be concealed 
anywhere else.






Joe

****************************************************************
**                 GLOCK@chip.cba.ufl.edu                     **
**                                                            **
**     "When the going gets tough, the tough get a GLOCK."    **
****************************************************************
From: mccon@ssdd475a.erim.org (Joe McConnell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Match, Wheel, Flint Locks
Date: 18 Dec 92 13:35:20 GMT
Organization: Environmental Research Institute of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan

Match lock: ignition is produced by sticking a "match" -- a length of
            cord soaked in a combustible material -- into a pan filled
            with priming powder.  The resulting flash ignites the main
            charge.  The match is held in some kind of swinging device
            in all but the earliest, most primative versions.
Wheel lock: A wheel with a roughened or serrated edge is rotated by
            a wound-up spring.  The edge of the wheel contacts a piece
            flint usually within a pan of priming powder.  The resulting
            sparks cause ignition.
Flint lock: A piece of flint is gripped in jaws at the end of a pivoting
            hammer.  It strikes a vertical steel piece, stiking sparks
            and at the same time opening a pan full of priming powder.
--
Joe McConnell  | Opinions expressed are the   | Don't blame me!  I voted for
mccon@erim.org | author's, not the employer's.| Stephen Maturin!
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:56:33 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <1992Dec15.195829.18377@igor.tamri.com>, donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
# Last weekend, I visited a neat sports store in Fremont, CA called
# Tri City.  They had a couple Enhanced Colt 1911s and I was most definitely
# NOT impressed with the quality of the finish.  The one detail that sticks
# out in my mind is the ejection port, which looked as if it had been smoothed
# out a bit crudely...maybe a little rough, I don't know.  Are current
# production Colts inferior in quality to Springfield Arms?  I didn't like
# the plastic trigger, either.
# 
# For folks with kids, I was wondering how they handle the toy gun debate.
# I'm definitely going to take my kids to the range, as soon as they show
# interest in shooting but I'm not sure how I feel about toy guns.  Part of me
# thinks that (my) kids should not have any (that they should have no slightest
# indication that guns are toys), part of me thinks it's a non-issue.  What
# do other people out there think?
# 
# Happy holidays folks,
# 
Both of my kids (8 yr old daughter & 5 yr old son) are allowed to play 
with toy guns: HOWEVER, whenever I see them point a toy gun at someone,
they get a lecture on gun safety which includes "never point any gun
at a person -- even if it's a toy gun."

Haven't told my daughter this in a good 8-10 months ... maybe she's
ready to start shooting real guns.
-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun blast noise in a car?
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:35:48 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores-of-the-Pacific, California

In article <BzAH3C.Myn@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini) writes:
#In article <1992Dec14.183537.4636@athena.cs.uga.edu>, boone@athena.cs.uga.edu (Roggie Boone) writes:
##My question is, if one has to shoot inside a car (either at someone
##in your car, or through a windshield to get someone trying to get 
##into your car), how do you protect your ears (and those of passengers)
##from the blast noise?

#	2) At the moment you fire, yell as loud as you can. This
#	partially disconnects the little bones in the ear from the
#	ear drum. you will get about 10-20 dB reduction from this.

You don't NEED to yell... I think the Germans who fired their Really
Big Guns (tm) were trained to 'yawn' with the mouth wide open and
the jaw thrust forward.  This opened the eustachin (sp?) tube to
the middle ear.  Pressure waves arrived at the ouside and inside
of the eardrum together, reducing percieved pressure/sound...
The yelling would help, though, in that the little muscle the
tightens up the eardrum for protection from over loud sounds is
automatically tightened when YOU yell ... so the bone conduction
sound of your own voice is dampened!

#	(my guess, based on my experiences) you will probably still
#	end up with burst ear drums, but the inner workings of you
#	ears will suffer less damage.

Having had my eardrums blown out ... I'd not expect it to happen
unless you had one heck of a big bang ...  Just avoid the magnums
and you should be OK...

My suggestion?  Get something that has low pressure to begin with.
You want a Big Fat Heavy SLOW chunk of lead from a low pressure gun.
Say a .45 ACP target or medium power load, or a .45 Long Colt ...

Then there is the other option ... it is risky, but if the 'perp'
is right on top of you ... you can 'silence' the gun by pushing
the muzzle against his guts .... I'd only do this if the tactical
conditions were not compromised by it, though...

	[MODERATOR:  Oops, have care about doing this with some
	 semiautos, like the good old 1911A1 ... you don't need
	 much pressure on front of the slide to actuate a disconnector
	 and prohibit you from firing....]
-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mail Order Parkerizing, A Review
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:22:35 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <9212091543.AA00115@stortek.com> vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak) writes:
#
#	SURVIVAL ENTERPRISES	1-800-SURVIVAL
#
# If he disassembles it himself before shipping it, the cost was $15.
# If he lets the guy dis/re-assemble it, the cost was $20.
#
# In addition there was a $3.50 charge to have the completed slide
# returned to him via UPS.  He was a bit worried about sending the
# slide half way across the country to some guy he didn't know, but
# decided to give it a try.  If cost him an additional <$4 to UPS it
# to SURVIVAL ENTERPRISES in CA.  Total cost $23.5 + $4 = $27.50.
# (He decided to let the guy take the slide apart).  The slide went
# out on Wed., Nov 18th.  It came back yesterday.  Total of 20 days.
# (There was the 4 day Thanksgiving weekend in there also).

By disassemble the slide, I assume you mean removing the working
parts from the slide (firing pin/housing/etc), not remove the slide
from the frame, right?

This sounds like an excellent serviuce, but I have one small question.
The description of the protection offered by Parkerizing sounds
very similar to that offered by Armolloy(sp?), but the cost for
Parkerizing is about $75-100 less...Is there any real advantage to
K-kote or Armolloy over Parkerizing?
If there's not a real advantage, I'll probably be getting my SIG's
slide Parkerized, instead of waiting to get it K-koted...

			James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	Your self esteem is enhanced by remaining an ignoramus?
	Please! Let's call it "informationally impaired."
		--Hobbes and Calvin, "Calvin and Hobbes"
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Info about Bernardelly .38 pistol?
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:19:34 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Dec10.205054.16279@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
##From article <199212091334.AA26334@elf.wang.com>, by jacobsen@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Joel Jacobsen):
## I need any info about the folowing semi-auto handgun:
## 
##        Bernardelly 9mm para.
## 
## The following sentence exist on the body:
## 
##       MOD.PO18 COMPACT CAL.9 PARA
## 
#
#I would guess it means "Model P018 compact caliber 9mm Parabellum
#(standard 9mm)".

  There is a Vincenzo Bernadelli brand manufactured since 1721 in
Brescia, Italy.  They make a Model PO18 in 9mm, with a suggested
retail price of $499.  Imported by Magnum Research, Inc. to the
U.S.

  Info from Blue Book 13th ed.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Blackpowder
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:46:35 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Does anyone have any suggestions of good blackpowder guns
on the market?  (The more primitive the better!)

Thanks!

-- 
+-------------------------+-----------------+---------------------------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         | NE PER INGENIUM | The above personal opinions     |
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | MEUM SED DEI    | can be yours too for only $50!  |
+-------------------------+-----------------+---------------------------------+
From: pfloyd@titan.ucc.umass.edu (BlackWing Restorations, Ltd.)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LW 3: "Reality" shows and guns
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:22:14 GMT
Organization: Old Pink, care of the Funny Farm, Chalfont



There was alos something else in LW3... 

Riggs fired that AP round at the vest, and it blew through both plates
in the vest like they weren't there...

In the big firefight at the end of the film, when Renee Russo was shot
with the APs... she was wearing two vests... and it stopped the
rounds...

now did anyone else find this implausible, using the range scene as
the truth? That second vest should not have stopped the rounds... I'm
sorry...

pf


-------------===========**********===========-------------
	       BlackWing Restorations, Ltd.
            Investigations, Personal Security
               and Restorations a specialty

     Can be reached via the following Internet address:
		pfloyd@titan.ucc.umass.edu

No case to easy, no fee too large, no ammunition expenditure
too gratuitous. no body count too high... call now for an
inexpensive consultation.
From: spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Denver Police shoot man
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:34:28 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <RTARAZ.92Dec13145923@realsoon.WPI.EDU> you write:
##>>>> On 12 Dec 92 00:19:21 GMT, dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) 
said:
#
#If a cop is in a safe postions (behind a car or something, somewhere
#that at leasts protects him a little) he could give the suspect a
#little time to get his act together and then shoot.
#

First off this isn't a flame but just an offering of additional information
to consider which may change your perspective on this type situation.
By safe position I assume you mean all but the officers head and shoulders
are hidden behind the vehicle. 

1) the officer has no idea as to the individuals proficency with the weapon
   being pointed at his head.(usually at rather close range) I personally
   would tend to take it as not a good will jesture. 
2) he has no clue as to the persons frame of mind.
3) at close range what are the odds of one lucky shot. The officer may know
   a fellow officer who was a victim of a "lucky shot".
4) the suspect is obviously not complying with the issued commands and is
   acting in a threatening manner.
5) How many stable individuals do any of us know that would willingly gamble
   his life on the intent of someone threatening them with a deadly weapon?
Looking down the bore of a weapon being pointed at you will truely test your
faith in the intent of some of your fellow men. And if you live through the
event will swear a promise to yourself never to let it happen again if you 
have anything at all to say about it. The only difference here is that as
as a police officer the odds of being in that exact position is real good.
No one, least of all a police officer, wants to shoot someone but by the same
token, he doesn`t want to become a victim of some warped individual out to
even a score with society in general either. 

True they are police officers and trained to handle tough situations but they
are also human. Many people seem to have the attitude that the training an
officer recieves somehow means he no longer needs to worry about getting hurt
on the job. They see daily what the worst of our society can and does do to
each other and are affected by it. Trust of someones intent while pointing a 
weapon at your head comes hard anyway and the concern of being the next victim
is ever present,and rather likely in many instances. There are stats for those
who would look to point out the price many officers pay on a personal level for 
staying in law enforcement. The one that sticks most in my mind is the life 
expectancy of a police officer is something like 10 years less than most other
professions after retirement. A result of a high stress environment over a 
long period of time. 

(soapbox mode off...)

-Steve
From: edp@sunrock.East.Sun.COM (Ed Pendzik {Prof Services} Sun Rochester)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re:S&W Auto/Glock 21 jam-free
Date: 12 Dec 92 22:50:56 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Rochester NY

I have about 3-4000 lead SWC, 3-400 factory FMJ, and about 100
fed 230 hydra-shok thru my glock 21. I clean it every 300 rounds
if it needs it or not ;-), partially to see if I can make
it jam. the only time I have EVER had a jam (3 or 4 total) was with
my own reloads when the brass was deformed. my brass is of headstamp
early-american ;-) and sometimes weak brass will end up with a large
bulge in the side of the case. typically said brass has had who-knows
how many firings and eventually case wall tumors or cracks show up.

I have met many people who have owned s&w autos, 9, 45, 40, 10,
and most did not like them and traded for something else.

Glock got it right the first time. Smith's 3rd generation still 
doesn't make it, in my and many other peoples opinion.

Then again, s&w makes great revolvers.

	Ed Pendzik
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Looking for 10mm recomendations
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:53:56 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Dec13.181623.24877@erenj.com>, by crumrine@pxdvgx.erenj.com (MDCRUMR  Crumrine):
# Hi all,
# 
# I'm starting to consider a 10mm, and would be interested in any
# recomendations/experience.  Who has offerings in this calibur?
# 


Having recently (last summer) fired a Glock 20 (?10mm), I was impressed
enough with it to order one for Christmas.

I found the one we tried out to be much easier to shoot than the Colt
Delta Elite or the Wyoming.

You might try the S&W (1006?).  I like stainless steel and may eventually
get one (finances and Wet Willy permitting ;-{) ).  The concern I have
with the Glock is it has what seems to me to be a very light trigger pull.
I would also like to have a safety (yes, I am familiar with the trigger
mounted "safety" on the Glock).
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)