HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thursday, 17 Dec 1992 03:10:03 CST
From: <U15231@uicvm.uic.edu> Zlatko Sijercic
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Labudova pjesma (Re: REPETITIO MATER STUDIORUM EST



Predanje kaze da labud kada umire pjeva svoju najljepsu pjesmu. U slucaju
gospodina Kovacevica moglo bi se reci: dok koljacka tvorevina velikosrba
umire, gospodin Kovacevic pjeva svoju najgnusniju laz. Medjutim u jednom je
on u pravu: tri puta su Muslimani dozvolili da ih Srbi masakriraju:
1914-1922, 1941-45, 1992.

I dobro ti ono rece Kovacevicu: nece biti cetvrtog puta!


Zlatko Sijercic
From: damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: New Croatian party
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 22:08:18 CST
Organization: INFOPLUS support, Wheeling, IL


 Dear fellow Croats,

  I heard today that a new Croatian party has been formed.  It's been set 
up by Mr. Gabelica, "Cista Hrvatska Stranka Prava" (or something close to 
that).  You may recall that Ante Starcevic was the founding father of 
H.S.P., and when a number of Pravasi started to become soft politicaly, 
he went off to found a new and cleaner Croatian Party of Rights. It seems 
as if history does repeat itself.  
  What do you guys think?



sign---- Damir  (he's back)



--
damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Infoplus BBS, +1 708 537 0247, v32bis. Home of Infoplus.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: jodar@aludra.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: Let them play.
Date: 15 Dec 1992 19:21:37 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
Summary: Umm,...  Not too sure about that....
Keywords: War is Hell

In article <1992Dec15.183432.6988@gw.wmich.edu> x89olarte1@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>Just an opinion....
>
>  International forces shouldn't intercept the war. Their only task should
>be protect and evacuate women and children. Away from that, none of their
>business. A war is a war. If they decided that's the way they want to
>confront the situation , let them.

The problem is that what is being done isn't 'Let them fight.'  
What is being done is 'Let them fight, only give our guy a gun
and knife, and tie his oppenent's hands behind his back, and kick
the poor sucker whenever he falls down.'

>(What would the americans think if they would have tried to stop their indepen-
>dence war and leave nothing solved...)

Have you forgotten that the American War of Independence was
fought by the Americans, the British, the French, the Spanish,
the Dutch, AND the Native Americans?

(For that matter, who WASN'T involved?)

>I don't support war, but sometimes i think there ain't no better way.
>
>Enrique

Unfortunately, true.  If everybody were reasonable and peaceful,
there wouldn't be war.  But there is always a bully, and there is
always somebody that thinks that might is right.

The good news is that everybody is going to be held accountable
for everything they've done....

-AQ

Xref: sparky soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:916 soc.culture.brazil:4091 soc.culture.british:17866
From: chao6@husc11.harvard.edu (James Chao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.brazil,soc.culture.british
Subject: World Model United Nations Conference in Czechoslovakia
Date: 21 Dec 92 05:13:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Dec21.001315.18729
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

To all those interested in international relations, politics, and the
United Nations: 

Harvard World Model United Nations (WorldMUN) is an international
conference that brings together university students and young
professionals from around the globe to siimulate the workings of the
United Nations.  The second annual WorldMUN conference will be held from
March 28, 1993, through March 31, 1993, at the Hotel Diplomat in Prague,
Czechoslovakia.  

Ten committees, representing the General Assembly, Economic and Social
Council, and Specialized Agencies of the United Nations, will discuss
issues from the actual UN agenda.  In addition to the formal debate of
resolutions, committee sessions will be augmented by presentations from
politicians, businessmen, scholars, and activists who have helped shape
the dramatic world events of recent years.

In this era of momentous political change, WorldMUN seeks to assess the
role of the United Nations in a new world order.  WorldMUN marks the first
truly international simulated United Nations where participants play the
roles of their own nation's ambassadors.  WorldMUN strives to teach
tomorrow's leaders about the United Nations and its methods of conflict
resolution.  It aims to foster skills in negotiation and debate, in order
that delegates may formulate resolutions on topics currently discussed in
the real United Nations.  These resolutions will be sent to the actual
United Nations committees.

WorldMUN 1993 will take place at the Hotel Diplomat in Prague,
Czechoslovakia.  The Hotel Diplomat is Prague's most modern conference
center.  Prague is both one of the most beautiful metropoles of Europe and
an ideal location for debating current world politics and the changing
role of the United Nations.

The Hotel diplomat is a luxury resort that offers restaurants, shops, a
night club, and fitness and spa equipment.  Delegates will stay at the
Hotel Diplomat for the reduced rate of 130DM/day double occupancy, which
includes two meals a day.

Delegate registration is $US60 per delegate.  For more information, please
reply to this e-mail address or write/fax:
Joshua A. Salomon, Secretary-General
Harvard World Model United Nations 1993
Suite 23, 1430 Massachusetts Avenue
Cambridge, MA 02138-3810
UNITED STATES

Telephone:  001-617-493-6995
Fax:  001-617-493-6995

James Chao
chao6@husc.harvard.edu
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Bosnian mistakes
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:47:17 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

Senad Arnautovic (arnsenad@me.utoronto.ca) writes:
>Let's be serious, what do you blame the B-H government. What mistakes
>did you believe it make?

Went on the road to independence when they knew it would lead
to bloodshed. At best this can be described as folliness.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
From: wickerhauser-victor@math.yale.edu (Victor Wickerhauser)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: REPETITIO MATER STUDIORUM EST
Date: 14 Dec 1992 22:25:18 -0500
Organization: Yale University Mathematics Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2155
NNTP-Posting-Host: math-gw.cs.yale.edu

Such baloney I have rarely seen:

In article <1992Dec15.110601.60805@qut.edu.au> kovacevic@qut.edu.au writes:
[about the burning of the library in Sarajevo]
>...Unisteno je preko 30.000 naslova u biblioteci "Prosvjete". Ogromno
>kulturno blago izgorelo je i u "Vijecnici", kada su muslimani imitirali
>paljevine Rajhnstaga i Banskih dvora.  Unistene su i kompletne
>galerije srpskih slika po Sarajevu, osim nekolicine koja sluzi za
>kojekakve manipulacije.

All accounts I have seen or read say that the library was hit by
incendiary artillery shells fired from Serb positions in the hills.
On one TV report, in particular, the (British) commentator pointed out
how ironic it was that the Serbs were burning their own history.  But
then he concluded that the triggermen were not the kind of people
interested in [or capable of -mvw] reading.  Send this baloney back to
Belgrade: I expect that the Bosnian Muslims will shed similar
crocodile's tears when the Serbs, for international sympathy,shoot
down and crash a few of their airplanes into the wild and pristine
forests of Bosnia-Hercegovina.

The second slice of baloney is the insinuation about the bombing of
the Governor's palace in Zagreb.  Yes indeed, the Yugo Air Force fired
some missles into the Governor's palace when Todjman, Mesic and
Markovic were all there.  I saw the aftermath in late January of this
year.  But the pilots failed to kill their targets, and now the
Republic of Croatia is free and independent.

>- Ako je trava pokosena, nije korjenje.

The people of Bosnia-Hercegovina have deep roots, long memories, and
plenty of allies with good reason to mistrust Serbia.

>- Gospode, ako kaznis gresnike, ko ce ostati?

Let the punishment fit the crime against humanity.

>- Zapalio kucu da izgore misevi.

Destroy Yugoslavia to save it? Why save it?

When Serbia exhausts its bread, and has nothing but such baloney to
offer, then by justice we shall all turn up our noses and walk away.


-- 
Prof. M. Victor Wickerhauser                      <victor@kirk.wustl.edu>
Department of Mathematics, Washington University, St. Louis, MO 63130 USA
Telephone:  USA(314)935-6771, USA(314)727-0749;     FAX: USA(314)727-4963
Sto se ljuckim trudom uzdignulo, Ljuckim znojem jopet se ponavlja. --Medo Pucic
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: Hatred? What Hatred?
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:54:59 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

Nicholas Jodar (jodar@aludra.usc.edu) writes:
>The only thing that has kept the Bosnian Muslims from declaring
>Jihad is the fear of the non-Muslims.  But the Serbs (and Croats)
>are killing off all of those who object to Jihad....

Don't you think that the fact that main bulk of the Muslims in B-H
actually cares very little about anything holy, be it Jihad or
Allah, has something to do with it?

It is quite threatening to see a lot of people screaming, and
even go fighting, just because they happen to be called Muslims. 
Imagine if Tito had decided to call them Bosnians or Ottomans instead. 
My guess that we would have been relieved most of the Islam fanatics
we have seen in this group.

I recall one the Muslims (as in ethnicity) distance himself from one
of the Muslim (as in religion) fanatics who appeared in this group.
It was very relieving to see.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: faruk@bcars6f5.BNR.CA (Faruk od Bosne)
Subject: Re: little lies...
Followup-To: pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ana M. Shane)
Reply-To: faruk@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 01:14:24 GMT


In Article 852 of soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna Ana M. Shane writes:
Date: 16 Dec 92 08:08:44 GMT

>A: You missed my point (again a point!) Geographically - yes, maybe
>   Albanians in Kosovo are geographically easier to separate from
>   Serbia. Psychologically - no. 

Shall I conclude that Albanians in Kosovo (1.8 millions) are psyhologically 
not prepared to separate from Serbia? You must be joking.

>   That is the complicated "history" of Kosovo - as much as the
>   Albanians are now oppressed, so were the Serbs oppressed during
>   the autonomy of the Kosovo region. I do not approve of either
>   ....
>   and now are manipulated by the Serbian leadership. 

Either take the history as an argument or not. If you do then inform 
yourself. You can start by the book written by Branko Horvat: Kosovsko 
pitanje.

>>In addition to that, serbs are building the largest serbian church in the 
>>heart of Pristina (Kosovo capital). 

This is not a history. This is, what you would call, state of the affairs.

>A: You see, it is crazy to invoke history in order to justify criminal
>   deeds. That holds for Serbs, but also for Albanians, Croats, Bosnians,

Guess who is forgeing a history to justify criminal deeds? This is not a war, 
since in a war you have two armed parties fighting for their causes. This
is not an ethnic conflict, since only serbs are fighting all others. This 
is a genocide systematically carried out by serbs over the non-serb population
of former Yugoslavia. As the UN officer said the ethnic cleansing is not the 
outcome but the goal of this campaign.

Faruk.
From: pavlovic-milan@yale.edu (Milan Pavlovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: little lies... (was: Re: CANADIAN UN GEN. McKENZIE)
Date: 14 Dec 1992 09:51:15 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1992Dec13.111639.18451@husc3.harvard.edu> stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:
>In article <1gdokpINNm0d@GOLEM.MATH.YALE.EDU> wickerhauser-victor@math.yale.edu (Victor Wickerhauser) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec12.164830.18437@husc3.harvard.edu> stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:
>>>
>>>1991, 1998, 1971 census data.
>>       ^^^^
>
>Obviously 1981 census.
>
>>
>>Somehow I am not convinced.
>>

  Don't worry about it, Milane.  Maybe if you had gotten a BS in Math at 
Caltech and a PHD in Math at Yale, you wouldn't have made the error in numbers.
BTW, is this a dejavu or what :-) ?

Regards,
Milan
===============================================================================
		M A C E D O N I A  =  H E L L A S
===============================================================================
From: pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ana M. Shane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: little lies... (was: Re: CANADIAN UN GEN. McKENZIE)
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:26:37 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

arnsenad@me.utoronto.ca (Senad Arnautovic) writes:

>pavlovic-milan@yale.edu (Milan Pavlovic) writes:

>>Regards,
>>Milan
>>===============================================================================
>>		M A C E D O N I A  =  H E L L A S
>>===============================================================================

>About this Macedonia=Hellas, this reminds me of a Serbian who in
>a chat with an Italian mentioned to the Italian that now when
>Croatia is independent Italy should take back parts of Adriatic Croatian
>coast that sometime ago were under Italian jurisdiction. The Serb was clearily
>falsifying history by implying that they (the Serbians) have liberated
>all parts of former Yugoslavia.
>With this smear Serbian policy, I would not be suprised to see history
>repeat itself by bringing the following banner into  reality:
>=============================================================================
>           S E R B I A  =  B E L G R A D E   P A S H A D O M
>=============================================================================

>For those of you who do not know about Balkan history, that is
>historical Serbian state
>B. pashadom = current Serbia - Vojvodina - Kosovo - current southern Serbia

>Senad H. Arnautovic

Bringing up historical rights to any part of land in the Balkans or
denying the same historical rights to any part of land, to any so called
"warring party" is totally irrelevant, counter-productive, pure emotional
slander! It doesn't help anyone and serves only to feed the hatred and
expand the war. This kind of "thinking" is the best tool of the criminals
who use it to cover up their horrible works and pack them in some
"nationalistic" glitter.

Instead of falling for the wrapping paper like any child, look for
anything that could bring PEACE to the people of the whole region.

  With hopes for peace

               ___      ___
       ___   _/   \    /  //                                  
          \_/  @   \  /  //    _/////                         
          /|-\_     \/  //   _/   _/                          
           |   \     \__//__/   _/                            
        ()/     \           __ /                              
        / ()     \_    \____  |////<                          
      ()           \_       \_______\                         
                     \______/                                 


Ana M. Shane                              voice: (215)-843-2909
334 Winona St.
Philadelphia, PA 19144      e-mail: pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu
From: wickerhauser-victor@math.yale.edu (Victor Wickerhauser)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: Hatred? What Hatred?
Date: 15 Dec 1992 12:13:52 -0500
Organization: Yale University Mathematics Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2155
NNTP-Posting-Host: math-gw.cs.yale.edu

In article <1gje1vINN8pn@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> popovicj@ucs.orst.edu (Jovan Popovic) writes:
>
>And recently when I checked my mail I found the note of the following content:
>
>| From: Khalid Shah <kshah@huey.csun.edu>
>| Subject: For an serbian-chetniks liar and scum
>| Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 2:16:53 PST
>|
>| Would you like your mother or wife to be gang raped , you  dirty liar ?
>| You said you don't understand the conflict.
>| You said who the Kenny and Dugan are .
>| All of you serbs know what is going on in Bosnia , but you are dirty liars.
>| This is the second time that Bosnian muslim's throats are slit .
>| You know very well what your damned nation did to Bosnian muslims
>| in W W 2 ; 300,000 butchured muslims.
>| You are going to pay for both.We are going to win , god willing , and you
>| will be damned and cursed nation until the judgement day.I will fight
>| for Bosnia as thousands of other muslims .
>| You will end up like Russia in Afghanistan.
>| But,listen dirty liar, we will not rape your mothers and wives and daughters.
>| And we will not open up your pregnant women , you bastard.
>
>Well, I guess this is the hatred I talked about.

Looks more like contempt to me.  Well-deserved, too.  War crimes will
not be rationalized away with a sappy balm of platitudes.  How can
anyone expect that a few tears for `bratstvo i jedinstvo' will wash
the stain off those monsters who right now are committing the basest
atrocities since Vlad the Impaler.

In this light, Khalid Shah seems downright polite.
-- 
Prof. M. Victor Wickerhauser                      <victor@kirk.wustl.edu>
Department of Mathematics, Washington University, St. Louis, MO 63130 USA
Telephone:  USA(314)935-6771, USA(314)727-0749;     FAX: USA(314)727-4963
Sto se ljuckim trudom uzdignulo, Ljuckim znojem jopet se ponavlja. --Medo Pucic
From: kovacevic@qut.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Murise,Murise (in serbian)
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:44:02 EST
Organization: Queensland University of Technology



	Ajde,bolan Murise,daj mi objasni samo jedno:

	Zasto bi ono sto mi Srbi kazemo bilo laz a ono sto vi i uje
	govorite bilo istina?Po kom to merilu odredjujes sta je laz a sta
	istina?

	MOzda po novinskim izvestajima?Ne budi dete Murise.Da ne idemo
	dalje,evo ti jucerasnji "The Australian".Opet one bljuvotine
	o "srbinu" Branislavu Heraku.Herak- to ti je "cisto srpsko"
	prezime.Idi begaj.Onda,taj krelac je poceo da prica kao navijen
	cim je video zelene.Odmah.Po izlasku iz auta.Pazi molim te.Kao
	da je cekao da ga "uhite",da bi ze on "pohvalio" svim tim zlocinima.
	Murise,Murise...ako verujes u to i u sve one namestene scene iz
	Sarajeva,sa tobom nesto nije u redu.

	A razmisli samo: da ste izabrali pravu stranu,svega ovoga ne bi
	bilo.Ovako,uje su vas gurnule da ginete za njih.Obecali su vam 
	drzavu,koju nikada ne bi ste ni imali.Jer sta ce vama drzava,kad
	ste vi "hrvatsko cvijece",pa bi bili sasvim srecni u "velikoj
	croatiji".Grob su oni vama spremili,a ne drzavu.A vi po treci put
	u ovom veku izabrali pogresnu stranu (1914,1941 i 1991).Ako se
	uskoro ne opametite i ne prestanete sa napadima na nase polozaje,
	bojim se da cetvrtog puta za vas nece ni biti.

	Niko nema nista protiv vase religije.To je stvar vaseg a pre svega
	stvar izbora vasih predaka.Ali,islamske drzave u Bosni i hercegovini
	nece nikada biti.

	I nemoj tako.Ja tebe ne zovem zlocincem mada tvoji zemljaci i danas,
	na pragu 21-og veka,nabijaju na kolac nase borce.Nemoze to tako
	moj jarane

	goran
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: faruk@bcars6f5.BNR.CA (Faruk od Bosne)
Subject: Re: little lies...
Followup-To: pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ana M. Shane)
Reply-To: faruk@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 21:53:43 GMT


Article 874 of soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna (Ana M. Shane) writes:

ANA:
>>All I want to say is that as people Yugoslav (or ex-YU) citizens have been
>>thrown against each others, 

FARUK:
Everybody sees what you want to say. However the facts are different:
serbs fought Slovenians (Slovenians kick them out), serbs fought Croats
and stil fighting, serbs fight Bosnians Muslims and Croats, serbs oppress
Albanians in Kosovo, serbs are treatening Macedonians. On the other side
Slovenians only fought serbs (not Croats etc.), Croats only fought serbs
(not others, although serbs would like to see the fight between Croats and
Muslims in Bosnia - fat chance), Albanians from Kosovo are fighting only 
serbs (not Croats or Muslims ...) etc. Therefore the conclusions of those 
facts are that serbs are fighting non-serb peoples of ex-Yu, and no other 
ex-Yu peoples have been thrown against each other. 
So, may I thank but not thank you for your offer of peace.

Faruk.
From: x89olarte1@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Let them play.
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:34:31 GMT
Organization: Western Michigan University

Just an opinion....

  International forces shouldn't intercept the war. Their only task should
be protect and evacuate women and children. Away from that, none of their
business. A war is a war. If they decided that's the way they want to
confront the situation , let them.

(What would the americans think if they would have tried to stop their indepen-
dence war and leave nothing solved...)

I don't support war, but sometimes i think there ain't no better way.

Enrique
From: damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Gabelica
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 22:08:31 CST
Organization: INFOPLUS support, Wheeling, IL


  Ok, let me guess; NONE of you have heard that Gabelica has setup the 
"Cista Hrvatska Stranka Prava"?

Damir

--
damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Infoplus BBS, +1 708 537 0247, v32bis. Home of Infoplus.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: bitn@ellis.uchicago.edu (nathan elery bitner)
Subject: Re: Let them play.
Reply-To: bitn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:39:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.183432.6988@gw.wmich.edu> x89olarte1@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>Just an opinion....
>
>  International forces shouldn't intercept the war. Their only task should
>be protect and evacuate women and children. Away from that, none of their
>business. A war is a war. If they decided that's the way they want to
>confront the situation , let them.
>
>(What would the americans think if they would have tried to stop their indepen-
>dence war and leave nothing solved...)
>
>I don't support war, but sometimes i think there ain't no better way.
>
>Enrique

What a tragedy, Enrique.  This is not just a war; it's genocide. So it's
okay to get the women and children out and let the men suffer unspeakable
crimes to humanity?  Give me a break.  What kind of trite point are you 
trying to prove by comparing this to the War for American Independence?
Guess what -- international relations has changed a bit in 200 years.
Maybe you think this is none of your business.  Was the Holocaust none of
our business, too?  These people are trapped, with their hands tied; bonds
which the world helped secure.  It is *long* past due time to intervene.
No more excuses.  By the way, Enrique, in case you didn't notice, the
world has been *asked* to intervene -- begged to intervene.  You make it
sound like an unwelcome intrusion -- only to the frenzied Serbian nationalists
whose days are numbered.

Nathan

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                         INTER ARMA SILENT LEGES                      |
| "Worship Ditka NOW."                email:  bitn@midway.uchicago.edu |
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