HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Subject: Re: The latest
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:53:57 GMT


davidb@engin.umich.edu (David Bonnell) writes:
>Nancy Cartwright	Actress/Writer/Producer
>Chick Corea		Eight-Time Grammy Award Winning Jazz Musician
>John Travolta		Actor
>Kelly-Preston		Actor
>Philippe de Henning	Champion Racer and Winner of the 1987 Le Mans
>Maxine Nightingale      Vocalist
>Billy Sheenan		Internationally Renowned Rock Bassist
>Julia Migenes		Opera Star
>Terry Jastrow		Seven-time Emmy Award-winning Producer/Director
>Mark Isham		Grammy Award winning Musician/Composer
>Judy Norton/Taylor 	Actress/Singer 
>Kate Ceberano		Australia's Top Female Singer
>Keith Code		Top Motorcycle Instructor
>Tom Cruise		Actor
>any many, many more.

This is a fascinating list, not only for what it says, but for what
it doesn't say. Let's see: athletes: performers. Hmm, one of them
writes. Actually, there's one intelligent writer who's a
Scientologist - Algis Budrys: I probably misspelled that. [The
references are where I'm not.] I've always wondered about him.

What the list doesn't include, is a single scientist or chess
champion. Scientology claims to increase IQ and mental skill.
Why no brainpower in the list?
-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: richardf@teal.csn.org (Richard Forbin)
Subject: What's with this group??
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:53:27 GMT


I don't understand this group at all.  There's a bunch of people
challenging posts, with no responses.  Is the messages here monitored
or read by Scientologists, or is it just a place to hang out and write
about what a crock scientology is maybe it should be renamed alt.flame.scientology.:)

  I was interested in this stuff awhile back, but it seemed pretty ridiculas to pay so *much* money to these people, so I became "uninterested"... 

  If there's anyone here who can answer this- Why do you pay so much for your technology?  Why not give it out free??
From: schaf@socrates.ucsf.edu (Chris Schafmeister)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: L. Ron Hubbards newest book.
Date: 10 Jan 93 06:05:39 GMT
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

A while ago I saw a commercial on TV announcing
L. Ron Hubbard's latest book.
I think the book was called 'Fear'.
Did I see this correctly?  
Can anyone verify this?

If this is the case then L. Ron Hubbard is a truly unique man.

I've heard of people working with disabilities, 
but being 10 years dead, that is amazing!

Actually, 'dead' is not politically correct.
I prefer the term: 'metabolically challenged'.


.Chris.

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Christian E.A.F. Schafmeister               Biophysics graduate student
University of California, San Francisco      UUCP: ucbvax!ucsfcgl!schaf
"Biophysics . . . THE future."             INTERNET: schaf@cgl.ucsf.edu
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: gj156879@alfred.carleton.ca ( gj student 156879)
Subject: Harlan Ellison and LRH.
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 21:36:20 GMT

Didn't Harlan Ellison, in the introduction to one of his books, talk
about his friend LRH?  I believe he said something along the lines of
"LRH really didn't take Scientology seriously.  It was just something
that got out of control."
 
I believe this was in the intro to a book, or a chapter on LRH and his
writing.  Anyone know what I'm talking about, and if so, could they
quote the passage?
 
                                        Nik

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: decot@cup.hp.com (Dave Decot)
Subject: Re: Past Civilizations
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:19:56 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

John Wakeman (wakeman@crchh7ce.BNR.CA) wrote:
: decot@cup.hp.com (Dave Decot) wrote:
: 
: >I presume you mean "Jan. 1981 to Jan. 1983".  Right?
: 
: Hey, you're right Dave it was the 80's.   I wonder if
: this means something like I'm stuck in present time or
: something. 8-)

Was there an earlier-similar time you were stuck in present time?

Thank you.  Your needle is stuck.  :-)

Dave
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: erichill@microsoft.com (Eric Hill)
Subject: Re: Scientology: It's just "a joke".
Date: 08 Jan 93 08:58:01 GMT
Organization: MICROSOFT MFG, 

>
>Is any of this written down anywhere accessible?
>I'd LOVE to learn more about this Marcab confederacy.
>
>What do scientologists think of material like
>'Marcab confederacy', 'machines that crunch tetans', 'implants'.
>Is it treated with any seriousness at all?
>Scientology doesn't dwell on this stuff does it?
>
>I find this stuff most interesting of all I've heard about
>scientology.  Most of scientology is just re-hashed 1950's
>popular psychology with a few twists to make it appear
>technical and 'scientific'.  But ancient civilizations
>that developed technology to operate on souls!
>Thats original!
>
>.Chris.
>
This used to be available from the cult on a set of tapes
called the "whole track tapes".  Unfortuneatly I had these
before I went into the S.O. and have no idea where they
went.

Erichill
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Views expressed in this article are the individual author's
and in no way refect the views of Microsoft, etc. ad nausium
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: aabst5@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Suppression of Free Speech by Scientology
Summary: "It's just a joke"
Date: 12 Jan 93 19:05:14 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <6685@pdxgate.UUCP>, sol@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (chris s de voir) writes:
> From davidb%beaker.engin.umich.edu@srvr2.engin.umich.edu Sat Jan  9 23:28:21 1993

>> Do you realize that you are committing serious High Crimes
>> against Scientology by your public disavowals of Scientology
>> on the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology?

>> I'm writing full
>> reports to the Religious Technology Center about your postings.

You can write to David's system admin about his "activites".  I decided to
after he repeatedly threatened to expose my "hidden crimes".  It turns out
that this is a regular activity on David's part.  This is something that
should be reported to the University of Michigan ("GO BLUE!") so that they
understand how their resources are being used.

Of course, David will claim that it's all "just a joke".

I'm glad that people are posting these messages to the net.  It exposes
Scientology for what it is:  A cult that uses threats to suppress free
thought.  Once that is understood by the general public, Scientology's
ability to suck in the unwary will be greatly reduced.

It just surprises me that people like David aren't smart enough to realize
that threats are self defeating.  But, then again, anyone who's bought into
the Scientology "line" probably can't think for themselves anyway.

> In other words do your duty as you see it, but do
> it with integrity.

Now there's an oxymoron: "Scientology Integrity".
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: wakeman@crchh7ce.BNR.CA (John Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Past Civilizations
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:56:26 GMT
Reply-To: wakeman@crchh7ce.BNR.CA (John Wakeman)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

decot@cup.hp.com (Dave Decot) wrote:

>I presume you mean "Jan. 1981 to Jan. 1983".  Right?

Hey, you're right Dave it was the 80's.   I wonder if
this means something like I'm stuck in present time or
something. 8-)

Thanks for the correction.

john
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I just work at BNR we don't agree on what I think, so
blame me.

wakeman@bnr.ca
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Subject: Re: Where have all the Scientologists gone....long time passing.
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 02:21:43 GMT

In article <1469@blue.cis.pitt.edu> aabst5@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:
>What's happening is that:
>
>	A) Now that some former scientologists have appeared on the scene,
>	   these guys are shaking in their boots that they will hear/read
>	   something that will compromise their beliefs and they don't want
>	   to go through the necessary brain-washing, err, AUDITING, necessary
>	   to get back "on-course".
>
>	B) They've decided among themselves to "blow" this group.  They didn't
>	   realize that they need our "permission" to leave. :-)  Should we
>	   put them on a "list" of subversive posters? :-)
>
>
>More seriously:  these guys didn't really add much to the discussion, except
>to demonstrate that scientology ruins the objective mind with 1984-style
>"newspeak".  I suggest that we run through DIANETICS chapter by chapter,
>here on the net and do a disection of it.  I suppose I can get a copy at
>the campus library -- I surely wouldn't want to give LRH's "joke" any more
>money.
>
>So if we're lucky, these bozo's have "blown".  Perhaps now they'll no longer
>send hate e-mail to posters of this group.

I'm bummed...I never even got a single piece of hate-email
(sniff-sniff).  Now I guess I never will.

Seriously, what is this group without people on both sides of the
issue?  Silly as they were, they added spice to the place.  I looked
forward to my daily dose of weirdness.  Oh well, guess it's off to
alt.alien.visitors for me.

	RA

rogue@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu (The Rogue Agent)
--------------------------------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: wakeman@crchh7ce.BNR.CA (John Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Past Civilizations 
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:31:17 GMT
Reply-To: wakeman@crchh7ce.BNR.CA (John Wakeman)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Keywords: Spinning, Marcab, space opera


schaf@socrates.ucsf.edu (Chris Schafmeister) writes

>Were you a scientologist?  What caused you to leave?

Yes.  I was on staff from Jan. 1991 to Jan. 1993.   2/3 of the
time I was on staff I was in the Navy, so I was more part-time
staff.   The last 8 months I was on staff, I traveled arround to
the various Orgs. from Flag in Clearwater Fl.   To the Los Angeles
day Org. to the West U.S. management org.   I had a variety of
duties which  I had various problems with.   Basically, the 
reason I left is similar to the reason I started.   I am the
kind of person who is searching for something and often  takes
actions to bring about change.  Whether in jobs, school, religion,
or whatever.   I do have some criticisms of the church and I also
think there is alot of good in the counseling and that it is
very interesting.   

So, even though I do not really answer your question completely, 
I have not completely disassociated myself from  Scientology.  I
just have not been an active member for about 10 years now.

john
============================================================================
I don't know what's going on, I just work here.
BNR doesn't endorse anything I say....    ANYTHING!

wakeman@bnr.ca
============================================================================
 
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt)
Subject: Re: Past Civilizations
Keywords: Spinning, Marcab, space opera
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:59:36 GMT

In article <C0HpFt.5nG@news.rich.bnr.ca> wakeman@crchh7ce.BNR.CA (John Wakeman) writes:
>Well, this was one area that I found to be of interest myself.  In using
>Dianetics to audit individuals, you do come up with some of the most
>interesting stories which have occurred for people before this lifetime that
>spans planets, ages and life-forms.  Whether or not it is true is up to any
>individual to determine for themselves.

Yes. Exactly. How *would* an individual determine if something like that were
or were not true? How would one investigate such a claim? How would you
demonstrate it to others?

Or, on the flip side, what would be the point of seeing which people in the
world would believe such unbleievable things? What would be the point of doing
that? What would be achieved if you started having people believe things that
can't be proven?

>john

--phil
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: Can anyone help me?
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:58:32 GMT

In article <1iaap3INNomb@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> au500@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zinn) writes:
}
}In a previous article, cg1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Charles J. Goldstein) says:
}
}>How do I get the "church of scientology" to stop sending me literature?
}
}Others have suggested that you move and leave no forwarding address. Seems
}to me that infringes on your right to live where you please. Have you tried
}marking each piece of mail "refused" and dropping it back in the mailbox?
}That worked for me when an ex-"friend" put me on the mailing lists of
}some obnoxious organizations whose mail I didn't want. Perhaps they will
}tire of wasting postage after a while.
}
}My fiance had another idea re: pesky junk mail. Bundle it up and mail the
}whole lot of it back to them. Shouldn't cost too much if you use the
}class (third? i forget) for printed matter.

As a question, when they mail you stuff, are "postage guaranteed" envelopes
enclosed?  If so, start mailing scrap metal back to them.  HEAVY chunks.


Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Scientology: It's just "a joke".
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:42:56 GMT


In article <6672@pdxgate.UUCP> sol@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (chris s de voir) writes:
>I don't know, is it original?  Should we put a test question out on
>some sci.fi group?  Was anything that LRH wrote original?


I'm in touch with scifi. The various critical summaries do not
describe Hubbard as derivative. On the other hand, he isn't
remembered as an innovator - remember, SF is a field where that's a
hard label to acquire.

One critic described Hubbard's work as "hastily written but
emotionally powerful melodrama, frequently featuring mental powers".
In those days (1938-1948 for Hubbard), SF writers sold to pulp
magazines, for a teenage market, and with no expectation of any later
re-publication. They were paid by the word, and badly at that, so
writing speed mattered to the author. Not surprisingly, very little
of today's "classic" SF comes from that era.
-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: L. Ron Hubbards newest book.
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:22:05 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

schaf@socrates.ucsf.edu (Chris Schafmeister) writes:
>A while ago I saw a commercial on TV announcing
>L. Ron Hubbard's latest book.
>I think the book was called 'Fear'.

>I've heard of people working with disabilities, 
>but being 10 years dead, that is amazing!

A quick look at a reference work finds:

"Hubbard [wrote both] science fiction and fantasy. ... His fantasies
include the darkly paranoid FEAR [1940]"

-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
From: sol@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (chris s de voir)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Scientology: It's just "a joke".
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:12:40 GMT

>schaf@socrates.ucsf.edu (Chris Schafmeister) writes:

>Is any of this written down anywhere accessible?
>I'd LOVE to learn more about this Marcab confederacy.

chris de voir writes back:

The description of the Marcab confederacy and its reference are in the 
"Technical Dictionary".  I also heard it on a tape.  Not all of the tapes
have been transcripted, maybe they have by now.  I don't remember the name
of the tape but you couldn't get it anyway.  You would have to register
for their Levels classes to obtain the tape.  This is not an endorsement
to do so, just a how to.

>What do scientologists think of material like
>'Marcab confederacy', 'machines that crunch tetans', 'implants'.
>Is it treated with any seriousness at all?
>Scientology doesn't dwell on this stuff does it?

In Scn this is "serious" stuff.  The word crunch is my own, the idea is
that a thetan is greatly reduced in capability by this machine.  The
illogic of it is that like the E-Meter, how can a machine measure or
have an effect on anything like a spirit?  My understanding is that
this material is audited on the OT Levels.  The lower levels of Scn
at least seem a little more real, don't they, dealing with things
like communication, problems, confession, upsets and blame.
This is the gradient way of getting more money out of you.  Space opera
is slowly introduced along with something that relates to reality at least
By the time you are auditing the OT levels, if you can tolerate what
you've heard so far you should be ready to part with more money
for more outrageous stuff.

>I find this stuff most interesting of all I've heard about
>scientology.  Most of scientology is just re-hashed 1950's
>popular psychology with a few twists to make it appear
>technical and 'scientific'.  But ancient civilizations
>that developed technology to operate on souls!
>Thats original!

I don't know, is it original?  Should we put a test question out on
some sci.fi group?  Was anything that LRH wrote original?
From: aabst5@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Where have all the Scientologists gone....long time passing.
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:19:12 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <C0GDGz.FMu@csn.org>, pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt) writes:

> In article <schaf.726305947@cgl.ucsf.edu> schaf@socrates.ucsf.edu (Chris Schafmeister) writes:
>>Do you think I scared Chip away with my 'religious-testosterone' comment?

> Don't know. I can tell you that Chip sent me an e-mail reply to my last
> posting but declined my request to post his reply. To me, it looks as if
> things got a bit too hot for Chip and he decided to bow out of the discussion.
> I hope that he wasn't feeling pressure from any factions. He may return.

Chip's "real brave" when in private.  He'll make all sorts of threats.  In
"public" (posting on the net) he acts more civilized.


> What about John Holifield? Has he "disconnected" from this group again?

> What about Jonathon? 

What's happening is that:

	A) Now that some former scientologists have appeared on the scene,
	   these guys are shaking in their boots that they will hear/read
	   something that will compromise their beliefs and they don't want
	   to go through the necessary brain-washing, err, AUDITING, necessary
	   to get back "on-course".

	B) They've decided among themselves to "blow" this group.  They didn't
	   realize that they need our "permission" to leave. :-)  Should we
	   put them on a "list" of subversive posters? :-)


More seriously:  these guys didn't really add much to the discussion, except
to demonstrate that scientology ruins the objective mind with 1984-style
"newspeak".  I suggest that we run through DIANETICS chapter by chapter,
here on the net and do a disection of it.  I suppose I can get a copy at
the campus library -- I surely wouldn't want to give LRH's "joke" any more
money.

So if we're lucky, these bozo's have "blown".  Perhaps now they'll no longer
send hate e-mail to posters of this group.
From: sol@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (chris s de voir)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Suppression of Free Speech by Scientology
Summary: I have been sent this threat for speaking my views on Scientology.
Keywords: High Crimes, Open Threat
Date: 10 Jan 93 23:31:12 GMT


From davidb%beaker.engin.umich.edu@srvr2.engin.umich.edu Sat Jan  9 23:28:21 1993
Received:  from pdxgate.cs.pdx.edu by rigel.cs.pdx.edu (4.1/pdx-client-evision: 1.21 
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	id AA26106; Sat, 9 Jan 93 22:48:06 -0500
From: <davidb@engin.umich.edu>
Received: by beaker.engin.umich.edu (4.1/1.35)
	id AA01918; Sat, 9 Jan 93 22:48:05 EST
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 22:48:05 EST
Message-Id: <9301100348.AA01918@beaker.engin.umich.edu>
To: sol@rigel.cs.pdx.edu
Subject: Hi there
Status: R


Do you realize that you are committing serious High Crimes
against Scientology by your public disavowals of Scientology
on the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology?  You have major
misunderstood words and you are posing yourself as an
authority in an area in which you are not.  I'm writing full
reports to the Religious Technology Center about your postings.

Dave Bonnell

I respond to Dave Bonell:

1. High Crimes do not apply to me.  I am not a Scientologist.  If you apply
your belief system to me, you are practicing outside your scope.

2. The things I have said about Scientology are things that I have seen and
read for myself.  The difference is that I have drawn different conclusions
about what I perceived than you did.  The material I referred to actually
exists.  The experiences I recalled really happened that way.

3. You cannot evaluate for me if I have misunderstood words or not.  I am
the authority of my own experience, not you, not the Church of Scientology
nor the Religious Technology Center.  I perceive, I think and then I have
related my observations and my personal conclusions in this forum.

4. What I had hoped for was a Scientologist to counter my statements
with data and experiences of their own.  I would have greatly enjoyed this
dialogue.  But it appears that you and whoever is coaching you has gone
from a non-confront directly to open threat.

5. Please remember, that although I have probably made you uncomfortable
about the things I have said about Scientology, please remember to
not let enturbulation enter your report to the RTC.  It would be best
for you and me if you describe what I have said accurately and without
emotionalism and inferences on your part.  Please do not distort or
remove from context things I have said in order to make them appear to
be something else.  I have unfortunately seen this done with knowledge
reports in the CoS.  In other words do your duty as you see it, but do
it with integrity.

Sincerely, Chris De Voir.
From: au500@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zinn)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Can anyone help me?
Date: 4 Jan 1993 21:38:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: au500@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zinn)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, cg1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Charles J. Goldstein) says:

>How do I get the "church of scientology" to stop sending me literature?

Others have suggested that you move and leave no forwarding address. Seems
to me that infringes on your right to live where you please. Have you tried
marking each piece of mail "refused" and dropping it back in the mailbox?
That worked for me when an ex-"friend" put me on the mailing lists of
some obnoxious organizations whose mail I didn't want. Perhaps they will
tire of wasting postage after a while.

My fiance had another idea re: pesky junk mail. Bundle it up and mail the
whole lot of it back to them. Shouldn't cost too much if you use the
class (third? i forget) for printed matter.
--