HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovok
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:26:21 GMT
Reply-To: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Followup-To: talk.politics.soviet
Organization: Boston University

In article <1992Apr13.182930.8291@dxcern.cern.ch> GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg) writes:
>In <1992Apr13.160037.16078@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com writes:
>>     No, "sovok" is there to describe a new social phenomenon.  It's no more
>>     a slang that any new word in any language.
>       < ... lots omitted ... >
>
>Perhaps it will yield a lot of  flames, but it's worth mention that Russian
			        ~~~~~~~
Yep.

>language is  developed mainly  in dominion  and not abroad.  Of course it's
>true not only for Russian but for  almost any language. The good example is
>Ivrit which  nearly died  during >1000 years of  diaspora and  was actually
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>revived in Israel.
>

It may be classified as a typical sovok (not in my lexicon, maybe I'm using
it wrong, flame me back (--:] ), or as a not the best example at least.

Although I'm flaming the "nearly died" Ivrit ( proofs for advanced readers
available upon request), Ican add, that in my IMHO, Ivrit did change
from the time of the Second Temple till Zionism (not as much as
Russian of course (--:]).

>
>I deeply regret that I had to use this word several times in this text, but
 I regret either.
>as A.Ahmatova said once ``Mi zhe v kontse kontsov filologi!''
>						   ~~~~~~~~
 Anachnu filologim?

>
>Cheers,
>
>Greg

Senya Streltsov
Boston University,
.where .is .my .sig .!?
From: C09800MK@wuvmd.bitnet (Mikhailina Karina)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovok
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:42:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: INDYCMS.TPS-L%92041315474645
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

Vadik,
Thank you for your eloquent response. It's nice to know that at least some
of the readers of the Net are not outdated.
Mikhailina
From: GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovok
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:29:30 GMT
Organization: SUNY at Stony Broook
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Apr13.160037.16078@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com writes:

  <...part of citation of my own previous posting is omitted...>

>     No, "sovok" is there to describe a new social phenomenon.  It's no more
>     a slang that any new word in any language.
> 
>     Another example: folks who come from the xUSSR to visit their relatives
>     and friends in the US are called "pilesosi" ("vacuum cleaners") because
>     of what they (often) do to their hosts's garderobes and bank accounts.

Hey, come on! Not  ANY common-used  BY SOME GROUP OF  PEOPLE word in a lan-
guage is a NEW word, i.e. neologism.  The more, SOVOK is not actually a new
word - it is just a new-invented meaning of well known Russian word. It's a
TYPICAL  slang (like  your  example of   ``pylesosy'', like  ``zelenyj'' or
``kapusta'' for notation of $). The  only fact that here, abroad it is used
more commonly  than back to XSSR  reflects only a gap  between emigrant and
domestic culture.  This time this  gap is not in  emigrant favour, however.

Perhaps it will yield a lot of  flames, but it's worth mention that Russian
language is  developed mainly  in dominion  and not abroad.  Of course it's
true not only for Russian but for  almost any language. The good example is
Ivrit which  nearly died  during >1000 years of  diaspora and  was actually
revived in Israel.

So, I repeat that SOVOK is an  example of slang, the more, it is an example
of BAD slang which was originated in the non-intelligent media. A friend of
mine after the  last posting  mentioned that  first time he  heard the word
SOVOK several  years ago in the  company of the childs  of diplomats, trade
representatives  etc.  (which lately  were known  as HOROSHO  UPAKOVANNYE -
another example of  slang). And the way of using  this word by these people
was very unattractive,  because it has a very  clear taste of ``lakejstvo''
(``Holuj,  vybivshijsya v  upravlyauschie''). So, it's  not surprising that
the term spread very fast in the new-born trade-cooperative media in XSSR
and was exported abroad along with petrol, metal and wood.

I  completely agree  with you that  the way this  word is  used here rather
different  from the  way it's  used  there, but  still it's not  a slang of
high-educated people,  and I hope that it will be  forgotten very soon with
the decay of the very place and the very way of life to which word SOVOK is
usually applied.

I deeply regret that I had to use this word several times in this text, but
as A.Ahmatova said once ``Mi zhe v kontse kontsov filologi!''

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully! <*smile*>

Cheers,

Greg
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet,soc.college
From: peanuts@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: Re: HELP RUSSIAN STUDENT
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 19:34:57 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.224037.39251@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, 2frkfloat@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> 
> " Help! I need somebody! Help, not just anybody..."
> 
> [Stuff deleted]
>  BTW does anybody know, if it is possible to change my tuition status from
>  out-of-state to in-state ? I need to find this money before the end of May.
>  Thank you,very much if you want to help me.
> 

I don't know how it works in Kansas. Here in Texas there are only two ways an
international student (F-1 visa) can pay in-state tuition. To pay in-state
tuition an out-of-state student (and F-1s) must receive competitive scholarship
greater than $200 (U.S. money :) ) OR work at least 20 hours/week on a job
related to his/her course of study (usualy working for a professor or the
department).
 
>  Sincerely yours,
>    Sergei Emdin.

Have a nice day :)

Tono Darmodjo
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Viznyuk)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovok's black/white list
Date: 12 Apr 92 14:47:28 GMT
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics

In article <1992Apr11.224626.8564@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>Sergei Viznyuk (viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu) writes:
>>I think the world is used to identify such "democracy" with
>>clear-cut facism.
>
>And I think the world is used identify people as you as "scum".
>
>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se

  Is it your last "argument", Mr. Sommarskog ? Don't expect me to
follow you.

  Now let's imagine some country (not necessary Estonia) where the
ruling regime is going in for following kind of things:

   Depriving the large portion of population (~30-40%), most of whom
are not immigrants but were born and grown there and for some of
whom the land they are living in is their native land, of right
to vote, the right to work, the right to live there, exclusively
because they don't satisfy some artificial criteria, established by goverment,
and finally forcing those people to leave the country. Posing
the territorials claims to neibouring countries in violation of
existing treaties.

   Now let me ask "all you": how would you call the regime in such
country ?  As for me, I see the only difference between such regime
and "simply" facist is that the "simply" facist regimes were putting
their minorities in concentration camps instead of forcing them to
leave, and committed direct agressions instead of "just" posing
territorial claims.
S.V.
From: viznyuk@PACIFIC.MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Sergei Viznyuk)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: News from Sovok
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:16:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: brighton.9204061516.AA03342
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

Today Russian TV reported:

Today was the first day of Congress of Russia's People Deputies
work. The main question is the adoption of new constitution.
Today the deputies with majority of only 35 votes (out of 1,048)
refused to question the confidence to goverment headed by Yeltsin.
Among other "remarkable" events was the proposal of VP Rudskoi
who just yesterday returned from Moldova to recognize the
independence of Pridnestrovkaya Republic of Moldova.
Rudskoi told about the facts of genocidal violence and
deliberate murders of civilian Russians and Ukrainians
by Moldovan terrorist groups, explosions of power installations
and industrial equipment by Moldovan police on the left bank of
Dnestr. Rudskoi proposed also to dislocate the troops of 14th
Army along the border between Moldova and Pridnestrovskaya Republic
in order to stop the violence.

Meanwhile on the negotiations in Kishenev between the foreign
ministers of Romania, Moldova, Ukraine and Russia, Russian
foreign minister Andrei Kozyrev hinted that if Moldova "will
lose its status of independent country, Russia could
recognize the Pridnestrovskaya Republic". Ukrainian foreign
minister Zlenko proposed to "reinforce the embargo on
delivery of arms", apparently having in view the Pridnstrovskaya
Republic, the blockade of which the Ukrainian goverment
established several weeks ago.

The reports from Georgia said that goverment troops gained
full control over the strongholds of former president's
supporters in Western Georgia: Poti, Zugdidi, but there is
still tensions in Sukhumi (Abkhazia).

The representatives of intelligence services of CIS states
"agreed to share the information in future" on their meeting
in Alma-Ata (Kazakhstan).

Poland proposed to train Ukrainian military officers.
(Polish military staff was trained by Sovok's military).

The "president" of Chechen "republic" Dudaev called the
American policies "disgusting" after the US Dept.of State
recommended US citizens to withhold from traveling to
Chechen "republic".

From: USA TODAY:Gannett National Information Network

RUSSIAN SHOWDOWN TO BEGIN:
   Monday begins a week-long showdown between Russian President
Boris Yeltsin and the country's top legislature when the Congress
of People's Deputies convenes to challenge his economic program.
The 1,048-member Congress is expected to seek to "correct"
Yeltsin's economic program and adopt a new constitution outlining
the division of power between the presidency and the parliament.

SHAKE-UP IN RUSSIA:
   Russian President Boris Yeltsin Thursday fired Yegor Gaidar,
architect of his free-market reforms. The firing appeared unlikely
to signal a major shift in Russia's painful drive toward a market
economy. But Yeltsin could be trying to defuse criticism - making
Gaidar the fall guy - before Monday's parliament session, which
could rescind his powers to issue economic decrees.

04/06/92
S.V.
From: VADIM@ohstpy.bitnet
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: I'm looking for someone going to Russia.
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:44:00 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>


  If you are going to Russia soon (american prefered),I'd be very thankful if
you pass a couple of letters. I am currently in Columbus (OHIO). Thanks.
Vadick.  Please,respond me privetly  VADIM@OHSTPY.MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
or    VADIM@OHSTPY.BITNET
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: Capitalist restoration in the USSR
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:45:24 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.162459.23366@athena.mit.edu> kreisel@spark.pfc.mit.edu (Felix) writes:
...
>As I stated before, the ex-Stalinists and the middle class intellectuals
>running the states of eastern Europe and the CIS are prostrating themselves
>before western capitalism.  They are enacting programs guaranteed to wipe out
>the industrial economies of this gigantic region and to throw hundreds of
>millions of people into a state of degradation, worse than the conditions 
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>under a Hitler or a Stalin.  
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
...

    Another word, you believe that restoration of either the Stalin's or
    Hitler's regimes would improve living conditions in Eastern Europe and xUSSR.

    Which one would you rather see restored?







-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All opinions are mine, if you find one please return it to goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: edwind@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (T.N.)
Subject: Pentagon plans call for U.S. as sole superpower
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 15 Apr 1992 10:01 EST  

Pentagon plans call for U.S. as sole superpower [Aerospace America, April 
92 Issue]

A classified draft document from the Dept. of Defense calls for the 
preservation of American global supremacy and prevention of the emergence 
of rival superpowers.  According to reports in both the New York Times and 
Washington Post, the document calls for the U.S. to "'establish and protect 
a new order' that accounts 'sufficiently for the interests of advanced 
nations to discourage them from challenging our leadership' while...
maintaining a military dominance capable of 'deterring potential 
competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role.'"

**************************end of report**************************

Comments: The establishment of U.S. as sole superpower is in large part 
          attributed to Gorbachev.
From: mss2@quads.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Capitalist restoration in the USSR
Keywords: marxism
Date: 8 Apr 92 05:49:50 GMT
Reply-To: mss2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Cc: mss2, hit2

In article <1992Apr7.162459.23366@athena.mit.edu> kreisel@spark.pfc.mit.edu (Felix) writes:

>As I stated before, the ex-Stalinists and the middle class intellectuals
>running the states of eastern Europe and the CIS are prostrating themselves
>before western capitalism.  They are enacting programs guaranteed to wipe out
>the industrial economies of this gigantic region and to throw hundreds of
>millions of people into a state of degradation, worse than the conditions 
>under a Hitler or a Stalin.  

So in other words, you believe that the current governments of Russia
and eastern Europe will succeed in killing tens of millions of people
and virtually destroying the entire industrial and agricultural
infrastructure of a continent?  Or worse?  _How_?  If Boris Yeltsin
_wanted_ to be Stalin (which I don't believe for a femtosecond)
he'd be hard pressed to organize his demoralized government and
his semi-rebellious military to do so.  Who will supply the bombs?
Who'll collectivize the agriculture and kill everyone who resists?
Who'll man the concentration camps?

I don't rule out the possibility of Yeltsin hardening into an
authoritarian dictatorship reminiscent of Franco (though as yet I have
high hopes that this will not be the case).  But there are 
_tens of millions of casualties which separate a Franco from a Stalin,
and it's obscene to invoke the names of such monsters as Hitler
and Stalin to criticize Yeltsin's market reforms.  How many people
has Yeltsin had shot?

While I've had occasional misgivings about Mr. Yeltsin, the fact
remains that he is the best ruler by any standard that has ever
ruled in the entire landmass which is Russia, it's first elected
president, the only ruler who has stood fast in favor of allowing
all citizens to own private property, buy and sell to one another
as they please, and vote for their leaders.  Maybe he'll fail,
maybe he'll decide it's just too hard and give in to the temptation
to be czar rather than President.  But the man who brought down
the last vestiges of Stalin's murderous system deserves better
than to be tarred to easily with that brush.

Mike
-- 
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS	"Never let your sense of morality prevent
mss2@midway.uchicago.edu	 you from doing what's right!"
mike.schiffer@um.cc.umich.edu	 --Mayor Salvor Hardin of Terminus
mss2@usite-next.uchicago.edu     Isaac Asimov, _Foundation_
From: GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovok
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:14:37 GMT
Organization: SUNY at Stony Broook
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20
From: C09800MK@wuvmd.bitnet (Mikhailina Karina)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovok
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:34:52 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

In <TPS-L%92041014082620@INDYCMS.BITNET> C09800MK@wuvmd.bitnet writes:

> Having lived in the States for nearly 13 years, my Russian slang has become
> quite outdated. I thought that SOVOK was a slang term for xUSSR. Now you say
> that it refers to former Soviet citizens and that it's deragatory. I still
> don't understand what it has to do with a scoop, although I certainly see
> how xUSSR is connected to the concept of trash. Please explain why the term
> is offensive.
> Mikhailina

Hi, Karina:

The term SOVOK is  really an example of the new  slang which became popular
about two years ago. Before this  date SOVOK had only local meaning - e.g.,
in Moscow the region of Savelovsky railway station used to be named in such
a way.

Originally SOVOK meaned  USSR itself. As far as  I understand, the original
association   is  not by   sense   (``trash''),  but  mainly  by  the sound
(``sovetskij'').  The  way this  acronym was  borned  indicates that it was
invented by  the  criminals - it's  very similar  to the  other ``blatnoi''
slang examples -  quite primitive  and disgusting.  Unfortunately, a lot of
people use it now refering to the XSSR - perhaps this reflects the lowering
level of  culture, especially  the culture  of speech. As  with any popular
expression, the meaning of this term  has been extended and currently it is
used for pointing out anything  Soviet - Soviet people, Soviet way of life,
XSSR itself etc. Refering to people  usage of this term implies some degree
of offence (``Nu, on -  tipichnyj sovok!'').  Refering to the life, things,
events etc. it implies some degree of disgust.

I  strongly  discourage  you of  using  this  term  because it's  really an
invention of perestroika-cooperative ``Novoyaz'' and has nothing to do with
the literature (even underground or modern ones) language.

Best regards,

Greg
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: aas@cs.brown.edu (Alex Allister Shvartsman)
Subject: Romania, Moldova, Russia
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:02:32 GMT

In recent weeks much discussion concentrated on Moldova and its "belonging"
to Russia and "not belonging" to Romania.  I think that the historical
record and the ethnic and cultural composition of Moldova clearly indicate
that Basarabia, i.e., East Moldova, is an integral part of the contemporary
Romanian nation.

The usual self-appointed defenders of Russian/Soviet empires have disputed
this fact. What is interesting and telling is that in the XIXth cent. even
some Russo-centric Slavophiles (e.g., those whose goal was to unite the
Slavic world under the leadership of Russian Empire) considered Moldovan
populated Basarabia a part of Romania even after its annexation by Russia.

Truly the neo-imperial "Russophiles" are trying to be holier than the Pope.

Alex
From: HAMMER@UCS.INDIANA.EDU ("Darrell P. Hammer ", Political Science)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: meaningsovok
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:28:33 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

There is no question that "sovok" is and was used in the sense of
"Soviet Union."  I have frequently heard the term used this way -
and not by emigres.

Darrell Hammer
Indiana University
From: amedvede@abo.fi (Alexander Medvedev RT)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovok's black/white list
Date: 12 Apr 92 15:11:40 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University

ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

>In article <1115@my.sm.luth.se> medev@sm.luth.se (Alexander Medvedev) writes:
>>ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>>
>>
>>>Jarmo Ryyti writes,
>>>Dear S.V.,
>>>~~~~u~~~~~~~~~~
>>I've never heard about Swedish Lapps being referred to as immigrants in Sweden.
>>Have you?
>>
>They have had very a low status in Sweden regarding the use of their language.
>In CSCE Meeting 1992 is going on in Helsinki and since 1975 Sweden has had an 
>quite official attitude not having any minority problems.
What does it mean - "low status"? They still have their right to get all kinds
of services (medical, juridical etc) in the native language, so how comes
they have problems?


>I mean by Finnish Tv and radio a TV and radio produced by the Sweden
>in Sweden (compare Finland)
>Swedish radio and tv has a very poor service for the fiinnish speaking finns.
Who can make better programs for the finnish-speaking people of Sweden than
the Finns of Finland? Anyway, I cannot see much sense in producing programs
in Finnish in Sweden, if Sweden is within reach of the Finnish ones.


>Dear Alexander,
>I am going to Estonia in the summer by a mountain bike like previous year
>I was in Karelia.
>To get a visa there one has to have an accommodation but no invitation as far
>as I understand. Then if no accommodation is to show there has to
>be an invitation. Day- trips are without visa, also to SPb from Helsinki
>by a boat.
As far as I understand you agree that there is no difference in requirements 
for trips to Russia (SPB) and Estonia.Now let's compare with a truly democratic
country, say Sweden. Do you need any special papers to go there? Why you still
need them to go Esonia? Because it still has a long way to go toward the real
democracy.
>I think during past two years travelling is much much more free than
>earlier during the time the russians were as bosses in xsu.
			     ^^^^^^^^
You mean, if we substitute all "Russian bosses" in xUSSR with "unRussian ones"
everything will be OK. What particular nation do you suggest to rule 
the country? To my mind Finns NEVER had any problem traveling to USSR and
getting there what they wish to get.

>Totally different people can come now over from russia than earlier to Finland
>You just have to have to have a certain sum of money to prove that you can
>live in finland during your visit or an invitation from finland.
>regards,
>jarmo
Dear Jarmo, You are telling me it's easy to get a visa to Finland? Have you
ever asked your Russian friends? My wife has spent four months trying to obtain
a guest visa to Finland. She had two invitations - one from a private person
and another from the Rector of Abo Akademi. None of them yielded the visa
automatically. The reason for holds-on was a limit on a total number of
foreigners allowed to Finland at a time. So, no idle talk about "certain
sum of money".
Have a nice trip to Tallin,
							Alexander
From: VADIM@ohstpy.bitnet
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovok
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:24:00 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>


  Exept of "dust-pan or scoop" and exept of xSoviet Union SOVOK or
in russian COBOK means a former sitizen of the former Soviet Union.
  I'd never advise an american to call russians COBOK. The same situation
is when a black man call a black man NEGRO it's treated like joke,but
when a white man call a black man NEGRO it's considered as offense.