HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: That dead horse
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:56:39 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1gavugINNrm8@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> In article <Bz44AE.3xq@ecf.toronto.edu> 
> ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu (Chris Ambidge) writes:
> > In article <1gaqnkINNprj@mizar.usc.edu> 
> > adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
# # #that has so permanently damaged public discourse and
# # #intellectual life in 20th century America as has the
# # #consistent demonization of leftists, from the J. Edgar
# # #Hoover-led hysteria in the 1910s to.....
# #
# # JEdgar Hoover was alive and leading public hysteria in the
# # 1910's?
# 
# J. Edgar Hoover's dates are 1895-1972.  Now that I think
# about it, the roundups and deportations of Reds that he
# instigated, led, publicized, made his name with, might 
# have happened after 1920, but not by much. 
# 
# Arne

That was Attorney General Palmer (the great liberal Wilson's
appointee).  By the way, all the people so intent on justifying
Malcolm X's racism because he was scared and pissed off about
his house being firebombed should be aware that Palmer started
the great Red Scare after someone set off a bomb in front of
Palmer's house.

Ignorance, of course, is a homosexual's stock in trade, as
Mr. Adolphson so often demonstrates.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Pittsburg, Pa
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:33:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.164801.17577@PacBell.COM>, rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
> 
> I think this horse is *dead* already, Arne...

  Usenet: A spot in the road with people flogging away where
	  once layed a dead horse.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: rich@rodan.UU.NET (Rich Haag)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Bars near Anderson, S.C.
Date: 11 Dec 1992 15:23:53 -0500
Organization: UUNET Technologies Inc, Falls Church, VA
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

	I'll be heading home to my folks who now
live in Anderson, South Carolina.  It is very near
Clemson University.  I was wondering if there are 
any gay establishments (i.e. bars) in that area,
so when they drive me batty I can escape for a 
while.  
		Thanks - Rich  |:)
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Alma Gluck and other stuff
Date: 14 Dec 1992 01:23:15 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1ggntgINNdo4@mizar.usc.edu> 
adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> In article <1992Dec13.164442.206@gems.vcu.edu> 
> kkenny@gems.vcu.edu writes:
> > Having been an extremely infrequent poster here for almost 5 years,
> > one thing that _is_ very clear to me about your posts is that you allow
> > yourself your opinions and others your opinions, without leaving 
> > anyone else room for _their_ opinions.  It gets tiring, hon.
>
> Well, precious, if you think that trait is limited to me,
> you haven't hung around queens enough.

Perhaps it's unnecessary to state this quite so baldly,
but I only shove my opinions about a few things down
people's throats, and then only when it's clear to me
that my opponent's opinions are based on an insufficiently
broad and deep knowledge of the (almost always cultural)
subject being discussed, whether that's the 100+ year old
history of cabaret, Dada, movies, or whatever.

Anyway, yesterday I spent the evening with a friend of mine.
He's the production designer of the Jean-Claude van Damme
movie currently being shot in New Orleans, and he dished
Jean-Claude throughout dinner.  After dinner, we saw
_Ariadne auf Naxos_, which was perfectly OK.  Not great,
but not a debacle either.  Then we went back to his
apartment and, while watching _Valley of the Dolls_ on
laser disc, talked about the kinds of things opera queens 
talk about.  Phil reminded me of a mutual acquaintance
of ours, now dead, who was probably the single nastiest,
most opinionated opera queen who ever lived.  He makes me
look like Mara.  The older among you might remember him:
he "acted" in porno (_Pleasure Beach_ was his personal 
favorite) under the name Johnny Dawes.  Well, you have *no*
*idea* what it's like to come up against someone who leaves
no room for any opinion that conflicts with his own.  That
he knew what he was talking about made evenings spent with
him tolerable, but I made the unforgivable mistake of
telling him once that while I liked Alma Gluck quite a lot,
she wasn't, in my opinion, the greatest soprano who ever
drew breath.  "Johnny" was obsessed with Alma Gluck (she's
Stephanie Zimbalest's grandmother, if that helps), and spent 
*years* writing a (really not so bad) biography of her.  (He
contended that Gluck was a battered wife, and presented quite
convincing evidence to support that claim.)  Anyway, we 
wondered what became of his manuscript, and then talked about
his nastier side.  

Anyway, believe me, I'm far from the most opinionated, bull-
headed (whatever)-queen you could ever hope to meet/steer clear 
of.  Besides, the opinionated, bull-headed (whatever)-queen
style predates other gay "lifestyles" that are much in evidence 
in this forum, and I don't intend to shut up.  But I *will* 
endeavor to keep my personal animus towards some motssers
under wraps.

Arne


Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: Dyke to head HHS
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 01:35:25 GMT

In article <lbj2!qk@rpi.edu> buckmr@vccsouth19.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker) writes:
>>In article <q_h24nr@rpi.edu> buckmr@vccnw06.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>>>Speaking of which, can someone explain to me why JIM MCRERY (R-LA) from the 5th
>>>Congressional District was re-elected on Tuesday November 3rd after being outed
>>>reasonably efectively by _The Advocate_? 
>>>The conservative voters of New Orleans re-elected a known homosexual to 
>>>reprsent them in Congress?
>>An open lesbian won a local election here in Albuquerque last Nov. 3.
>>Her male opponent, who kept sexuality out of the election, told the media 
>>that he didn't feel it was proper to make her sexuality an election issue.
>Yeah but I had heard briefly that McRery's sexuality HAD come up in the
>election. After all, he is a Family-values Republican congressman who has been
>outed as a closet homosexual. Does anyone have any details on that election?

Perhaps the fact that so many Republican on the Family-values ticket 
couldn't get back in was because a good number of them were outed?
Hence they dug their own graves for their political career.
Surely, that was an unintended strategic blunder.
-- 
Michael MY Hui  ~{~}  myhui@bnr.ca  Ottawa Canada
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Parking (was Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads ... ))
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:47:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.021452.10199@nwnexus.WA.COM> allyn@halcyon.com (mark allyn) writes:
>I have a very good solution to parking.
>
>Get rid of your car and get a bicycle.

Or a motorcycle. 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:24:43 GMT

Omaha: THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!!!

(Goddamn, Jess! I'd have 4 *times* the groups to waste precious time
in then!!!)

John, who digs the 'root out all crossposts' idea (speaking of: is
there a way to kill all crossposts to a group in nn? Someone please
tell me...)

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico

      You're like one of those... 'Cabbage Patch' creatures...
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads: women posting and "cures" and its spinoffs)
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:24:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec15.162432.18456
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <168BDF76.TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu> TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu writes:
>To the extent that *I* ever had -- or displayed -- a "fuck you" attitude
>about this issue, it didn't start until Melmon's "fuck you" to all the
>women, er, excuse me, "des femmes fascistes," on soc.motss.

Right, but you presumed that Melmon spoke for everyone, despite your
comments to the contrary.  What else explains the content of your response,
which _didn't even address_ Melmon?  C'mon, you were baited and took the bait.
The guy deserves to be ignored; he feeds on division and controversy.

>All my posts
>have been as measured as I know how to write them. And I am not dis-
>missing any of those topics people are interested in writing about.
>I'm just saying (I'll type *really slowly* so you can understand) that
>not everyone enjoys the same things (I'm quite a Fierstein fan, BTW -- I
>liked the commencement speech) and therefore perhaps not every thread
>should be steered toward them.
 
Let's see: "not everyone enjoys the same things, so not every thread
should be steered towards those things which not everyone enjoys".
You'll have to type more slowly, I guess.  Electronic conversation
isn't the same as a cocktail party, because the threads which you're
alluding to still hang around, and are still available to be responded to.  

>Well, your history from what I've understood from some of the e-mail
>I've been getting is that you're kinda misogynistic.

This is sweet; the flip side of "I've been getting all sorts of
positive email".  Listen, if some moron thinks that my treating a woman
the same way I treat everyone else constitutes "misogyny", then so be
it.  Or if their analysis is more subtle and cogent, let them make it
in public.  Until then, these people aren't worth wasting time on.
The charge does have a nice, fascist ring to it, however, which is
useful in a debate, don't you think?

>I know that's
>a real buzzword here, but if you're the champion of "an inclusive
>environment for women" you claim to be, surely you could have seen
>Melmon's post for the tripe it was and responded to *that* also.

No, it's simply that I recognize tripe and know when to ignore it.
Everyone else did too, by the way, including more than a few women.
Is this an indictment of everyone but TMCCART3?  I doubt it.

>Or maybe he's in *your* kill file as well. Pity my software won't support
>that function.

Discernment for when a comment is made out of malice and when it's made
to simply rub the right people the wrong way is a useful substitute for
a kill file.  In fact, it's a useful skill in general.  In this case,
you don't even have an excuse of being new, because you appeared here
roughly at the same time as Melmon.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: aconway@BofA.com (Andrew Conway)
Subject: Re: Bert and Ernie
Organization: Bank of America, Capital Products, RMTG #5906
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 15:52:57 GMT

In article <18131@autodesk.COM> mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook) writes:
>      
>I wonder if Ren and Stimpy are gay?
>
My friend the animator tells me that the reason that for the longest
time there were only five episodes of Ren and Stimpy being shown
was not only that the guy responsible had spent all the advances on
controlled substances, but also that a few of the episodes were
just too gross to be shown on TV. Considering how tasteless the
episodes that were shown turned out, I wonder about the ones that
weren't.
                               His Lordship
From: waal@cwi.nl (Peter de Waal)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: sex & shopping
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:24:56 GMT

>> Honestly, I'm serious about this.  What can
>> you do for the plight of our brothers and
>> sisters when you've taken an afternoon off from
>> demonstrating and writing letters?  Go hold
>> hands and shop.

This must surely be America, where the act of shopping can evolve into a
political statement :-).

--- Peter de Waal, CWI, Amsterdam <waal@cwi.nl> ---
"These lines are intentionally left without any significant content
 just to fool this newsprogram that I am adding more lines to this
 follow-up so that it will be posted."
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52103 soc.culture.new-zealand:3314 soc.men:21097
From: mjw+@cs.cmu.edu (Michael Witbrock)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.culture.new-zealand,soc.men
Subject: Please avoid crossposting Re: Gays Assume the Posture for Clinton
Date: 12 Dec 92 13:13:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.wf_b8DS00hsB0p7X4W
	<1992Dec10.221447.1@d0gslb.fnal.gov>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


OK, I'm sure that soc.culture.new-zealand has now had more than it's
fill (so to speak) of Jim Bowwowery (whatever that may may be), his
rantings, and their suite.

So, dahlings, please start editing your follow-up lines...

bises a tous,
michael
euuh - presque tous.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Parking (was Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads ... ))
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:54:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.023444.13018@nwnexus.WA.COM> allyn@halcyon.com (mark allyn) writes:

>You talk about cruising?
>
>Why cruise in your car? Why not do it on your bicycle?

Because I can't exactly justify the expense of buying a tandem
bicycle, let alone bother to ride it in lower Manhattan in the wee
hours of January mornings, to accomodate a friend who doesn't ride.

Good enough?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Tom Snyder (Re: More on Roseanne & Cast)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:10:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.213315.7090@njitgw.njit.edu> andy@eies2.njit.edu (Andy) writes:
>
>Here's one that I haven't seen mentioned.  I caught Roseanne and the
>cast of the "Jackie Thomas" show (Her husbands new show) being
>interviewed on Oprah last week or so.
>
>When they were speaking to Martin Mull about him playing a gay 
>character on Roseanne, he said something to effect "I didn't
>know at first my character was to be gay, then they dropped
>the (frown, snicker, pause) *bombshell" on me".
>
>The whole comment had a very negative connotation to it.  Nobody
>flagged him on it.  Oprah just smiled.  I was very disappointed
>in Martin Mull for portraying a gay character and then suggesting
>that he wasn't happy about having done it.
>
>Did anyone else catch this bit?

If there was a scale for being a screaming queen, Mull would be around
9. I saw him on an interview once talking about living in Silverlake,
and he then started on a strange tangent talking about "You know,
swish alps..., PPlatinum Pond...". Not having seen the interview, I
might add that a "frown skinker pause" is usually his way of being
sarcastic.

Does anyone remember the Tom Snyder show in the '70s? Talking about
'gay' on TV reminded me of this 70's oddity. It was really
unpredictable, and usually ran at 1am. I remember once Paul Williams
followed by Johnny Rotten (Williams grabbed the camera and said "the
guy after me is reeeealy weiiiird", which, if you know how williams
comes across, is the height of irony). Th highlight of one show was
the episode where Snyder went into a gay disco full of half-dressed
clones covered in sweat and talked about his 'feelings'. Very good
stuff for a 14-year-old fag in backwoods Tennessee to watch.

-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
From: sean_v1@verifone.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Outed to your parents. - Advice.
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:14:37 -1000
Organization: Confused Souls, Ltd.

Hiya'll!  I've got a little problem, and I'm fishing for any advice from such
worldy people..  I have a friend, who is 17 and Bisexual.  His name is Rick.
His mother just recently found out about it, and thinks it's just a phase, 
and suggests he go to counseling..  He's very upset over the whole matter, 
and his mom has said somethings that are very hurtful to him..   I've got 
some literature from PFLAG about coming out to your parent's, it has alot of 
reassuring advice in it, even if it's too late, to have a controled 
situation..  I was just wondering, if any out there, has words of advice, or 
even encouregment for my friend..  I'll forward any and all EMail to him..  



Thanks a bunch!!!


Se'an Michael 

-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Se'an Michael Ventura            |  Love is like a shooting star, brilliant
Verifone, Inc.                   |  and beautiful while it lasts...
100 Kahelu Ave.                  |  Friendships are like the stars on high,
Mililani, HI  96789              |  forever burning bright...
Sean_V1@Verifone.com             |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Santa Clause (Role Playing)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 16:08:43 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

HO! HO! HO!   Merry Christmas! (and Happy other Holidays for all 
the non-christians out there, which actually includes myself....)

Well, today and tomorrow I get to play Santa here at work.  We have a
Child Care Center for our clients, and I volunteered to play Father
Christmas this year.  

I grew out my beard for the occasion, and got some "Snow White" 
which is a white hair dye, and have dyed my beard, 'stash, hair, and
eyebrows.  As I was putting it on this morning, I kept realising
more and more that I really like whit hair on men, and especially on me. 
I then walked into the bedroom and scared the shit out of my lover who 
was just waking up.  Then he decided he liked it.  I like it.  It's making
me think about seriously looking for a permanent dye for my hair.  

BTW, I have always found men with silver or white hair extremely sexy, esp.
when they are bearded.  

So, today IU get to have a myriad of people "in my lap."  Including 
staff.  It should be interesting.  (SOme really cute staff members...)

So, Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.......

Chris Cringle


******************************************************************
*  Flapjack                         *    "Yes, I'm bi, -         *
*  B7/8 f+ w (c+d)v g++ k+(+)v
*             s(-/+)v m e r(=)      *     both top and bottom."  *
*******************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc
From: rja@mahogany126.cray.com (Russ Anderson)
Subject: Re: Dyke to head HHS
Originator: rja@mahogany126
Organization: The 1991 World Champion Minnesota Twins!
Date: 14 Dec 92 11:34:31 CST


In article <tbj2bxk@rpi.edu>, buckmr@vccsouth19.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
> mconte@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Marc Vincent Conte) writes:
> 
> >Shalala was outed by Miriam Ben-Shalom at the ACLU-About Face Conference
> >in Minneapolis around November 8, 1990.  This was a one day conference
> >on ROTC and gays that preceded the Creating Change Conference of that year.
> 
> Ok. What did Ben-Shalom say at the time to back-up her statement about Shalala's
>  sexual orientation?
> 
> Dose anyone else have any info on Mrs. Shalala's sexual orientation?

Does anyone care?  I certainly don't...


-- 
Russ Anderson    |  Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect
------------------              upon my employer or anyone else.  (c) 1992
EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!)
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Top GLB Fiction
Date: 18 Dec 1992 17:42:23 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec18.233347.27802@klaava.Helsinki.FI> 
hipoyhon@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Harri I Poyhonen) writes:
> In article <1gt9erINNm57@mizar.usc.edu> 
> hbaldwin@mizar.usc.edu (Harry Baldwin) writes:
> >Jean Cocteau: any of his films. Although not overt, they are 
> >saturated with his own gay sensibility
>
> Also his White Book. And Jean Genet's Querelle, Roland Barthes's
> Soirees de Paris.

I *vastly* prefer Genet's _Our Lady of the Flowers_ and 
_Thief's Journal_ to _Querelle_, on both gay-sensibility 
and purely literary grounds.

[ ... ]
> Alan Hollinghurst's The Swimming Pool Library is also well worth
> reading -- and a bit more modern than most of the aforementioned.

I'm convinced that I'm the only person in the world who 
wasn't bowled over by _The Swimming Pool Library_.  I did 
like it, but from the way *everyone* seems to go on about
it you'd think Hollinghurst was, I don't know, Edith Wharton
reborn.

When I was but an itty-bitty faggot, I adored the novels
of Patrick Dennis.  _Auntie Mame_, to be sure, but also
_Little Me_ (I confess that at the age of 13 I found the
model who portrays Letch Feeley *most* attractive), and
_First Lady_, _Tony_, and all the rest.

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: jls2@teal.csn.org (Jeff Stoner)
Subject: MOW/Colorado
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:40:18 GMT

Hmmm. Reading through some of the articles on the March on Washington
and having just finished digging through the co.---.amend2 newsgroup...

Hey, do any of the other Colorado MOTSS folk know if anybody's bothered
to invite the Colorado Congressional delegation to march in the Colorado
contingent of the March? It's never too early to get on a Congressperson's
calendar... ;-)

-- 
====== Jeff L. Stoner === Boulder, Colo. ============ /\ = /\ ========== |
                                                 /\  /  \ /  /\  /\    --*--
   Home: jls2 @ bearhug.boulder.co.us         /\/  \/    /  /  \/  /\    |
   News: jls2 @ csn.org                    /\/  \   \  /\  /    \    /\
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: NOTICE - Details of the March on Washington
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:39:17 GMT

I am struck, as a bisexual, by the fact that transgender people
are taking the heat that bisexuals were taking not so long
ago.

I have been told by les/gays and les/gay-supportive folk (on occasion)
that saying "gay, lesbian and bisexual", would inevitably lead to
including transvestites, transexuals, BSDM folk (or various others).

I don't think this is inevitable, and indeed there may be some elements
of self-fullfilling prophecy involved.

At the same time, I'm a lot more comfortable with the process that
produces a wide-open "queer" movement (recruiting allies ;)...
than a process that would say "We got ours, let's slam the door."

"First they came for the transgenders"...

Will I have nothing to say?

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................