HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robd@cray.com (Robert Derrick)
Subject: Re: lying to oneself (was Re: Sanctity of relationships)
Distribution: world,soc
Date: 10 Apr 92 12:15:32 CDT

Angelwing, thanks for the response.

[ I wrote]
: 
: Melony sez...
: >: There are, indeed, people who can lie to themselves and everyone they meet
: >: and completely convince themselves they are honest and don't practice
: >: deception.
: 
: >I need to see examples.
: 
: How about you look in the mirror?

OK, will do, point by point...

:  Do you tell yourself what a smart guy you are?

No.  The more I learn the more I realize that I know so little.  There was a 
time when I thought that if I knew more things than other people then I was
smarter than them.  But I always felt uncomfortable with that concept.  Now
I know that everyday is like getting born, and that knowledge is to me a
stumbling block to wisdom.  The more I know, the less I understand.

:  Or how good looking you are?

I don't even know how to tell you that.  I look in the mirror and I see
the same face I have seen all my life.  It has changed, but it still
remains the same.  The last person I loved said I was gorgeous.  I don't
know that it is true or not true.  Actually, it was just her opinion.
Someone else who did not love me said I was "not bad looking", someone
who was a casual friend said I was "not ugly", and someone who was a
complete stranger said (to my sister) "your brother is really cute".
I guess I am a mirror myself, and different people see in me different
things.  What do you see?

:  Or that your hair really isn't receding, your forehead is just getting bigger?

No, my hair is receeding, there is no doubt about it, and I accept it as
a part of the path of my life.  I am not proud of my thinning scalp, nor
am I ashamed, nor do I feel less manly about it, nor do I intend to worry
about it (other than the bother of having to wear a hat in the summertime,
what a pain).  But a nineteen year old beautiful woman told me that bald
was sexy, and she loved my long curly hair (imagine Gallagher).  I liked
that.

I just am what I am.


So, what's your point???

: >I guess I believe that people are basically good, and when they do bad
: >things, they will feel the 'bad', however much they tell themselves and
: >others that they truly believe in what they are doing.  They will feel
: >the pangs.
: 
: Oh man.

Oh man??  Why is it so easy to get caustic comments out of this subject,
but nearly impossible to get to the truth.  Tell us about your self-
deceptions.  I claim they don't exist, at least not in profusion.
You may think it is a self-evident truth, but I think it is just a
societal cliche that you are taking for granted.

rob derrick
From: v080lmaq@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (MIKE)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: Love Sucks.....
Summary: money rules only if you let it.
Keywords: cliche, stereotypical
Date: 17 Apr 92 05:07:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr17.031504.22099@news.iastate.edu>, twmn3@isuvax.iastate.edu writes...
>One things which I found out through out the years is that love sucks....
>I mean you can have any girl you want if you have alot of money to dump
>but no girl will stick to you if you have only pennies to spend. In this
>money craze world.... Money rules over love.
>				Taken from "Lovers are suckers."
> 
>Tell me what you people think of this passage.
>						Tommy.
>						
   Money used in this fashion is often just a cover for one's own insec-
urities, in my opinion.  I have been dateless when my bank account has
been substantial.  On the other hand, some of the most rewarding relat-
ionships I haven't had two pennies to rub together... 
   This reads like an attempt to start one of those "all women are mat-
erialistic bitches" threads, and I don't buy it!  Statements like the 
above seem to act almost like self-fulfilling prophecies (think about 
it).  Money controls the content of relationships most effectively when
you expect it to do so, and act according. 
   Sheesh!  Let's give ourselves a bit more credit :-)  than that!

mike
Xref: sparky alt.romance:6999 soc.singles:11110 soc.couples:2079
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,soc.couples
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Date: 13 Apr 1992 14:59:14 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: dhardin@spcink.bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <1992Apr12.225421.5765@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tlode@isis.cs.du.edu (trygve lode) writes:

>(I won't
>go into detail about the guy, but suffice it to say that he not only
>read every Gor book as soon as it came out, he also went so far as to
>highlight the sections he thought were most important.)

This description is screamingly funny.  I know you said you wouldn't
go into detail, but I just have to know - did he also subscribe to
Soldier of Fortune? 

(Of course, admitting that I thought this was funny also means admitting
that I know enough about the Gor books to know *why* this is so funny. Oops)

Dawn
Newsgroups: alt.romance,alt.romance.chat
From: diana@wetware.com (CatWoman )
Subject: Re: Is this a common thing?
Organization: Castle WetWare MouseCatcher
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:15:25 GMT

RJD118@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

] Here's the question: "If, in the possible occurance of an 'oops', [as in
] unwanted/unexpected pregnancy] what would happen to 'us'? Would you share
] the financial burden, or what?"
{deleted}
] But she was worried about my reaction to it...She isn't a fan of abortion,
] but sees it as a viable option...she is NOT a fan of adoption...
] All this she told me while I was trying to get my brain under control.
] She was afraid that, IF she got pregnant, I would help out financially,
] whatever she decided to do, but the relationship would basically be over.
] She says that most of the guys she knows feel this way.
] I can't understand this attitude, in anybody.

This can happen.  If someone is suddenly presented with a major
change in how they have to view their future, they can become
scared enough to abandon ship.

I'm not saying that this is "right", or even that it is logical,
but it happens.  People who are engaging in an active sex life
should have thought through what their actions will be if a
pregancy results - but people aren't always willing to think
that far ahead - or they may not be informed enough to realize
what the consequences could be.

] I told her that "If I love you enough to make love to you, my feelings aren't
] going to change because of a pregnancy. Of course I would help out financially,
] it's as much my responsibility as yours, but I wouldn't otherwise abandon
] you because of a problem like that."
                 ^^^^^^^^^^
Basically, I think Patti (CowPatti) is correct - I think that if
your girlfriend is concerned enough to ask you if you would end
the relationship, then THAT is what she is concerned about, with
or without a pregnancy in the picture.

However, the words I outlined up there I think are indicative of
why any woman would be concerned about a pregnancy - and why
some men WOULD leave a relationship in the event of a pregnancy.
Quite often a pregnancy IS seen as a "problem".  If you are
still in a postition where a child would be a problem, then you
should probably be thinking more seriously about what steps you
are taking to prevent pregnancy...accidents happen, and what you
would do in the event of an accident should be VERY seriously
discussed, but maximizing protection so you minimize the
possibility of an accident is also VERY important until you can
look at a pregnancy as something OTHER than a problem...

My take on the issue...

Diana
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: pfleming@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick E Fleming)
Subject: Re: a question
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:43:11 GMT

grs01153@runt.appstate.edu writes:

>What exactly constitutes cheating on someone
>with whom you are in a relationship?

I would consider cheating an action which is insensitive to your partner's 
feelings - particularly jealousy.  Being insensitive to your partners feeling 
of being taken for granted or replaced in particular constitues cheating.

     - Pat
.
-- 
- Patrick E. Fleming ---------------------------------------------------
- Department of Chemistry ------------ Pour un instant je suis content -
- The Ohio State University ---------- En l'air de la Liousianne -------
- pfleming@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu -----------------------------------
From: kochmar@sei.cmu.edu (John Kochmar)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: C'mon, people....
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:08:46 GMT
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute


In article <1992Apr9.204958.18504@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, ted5@po.CWRU.Edu (Thomas E. Davidson) writes:
|> 
|> 	Please, let's say something romantic. We sound like high school
|> gossips.

Um, OK, um, let's see, um, flowers, um, wait, a walk on a spring day, a
long drive exploring, um, leaving notes that say "I love you", um, hiding
cookies in your RP's lunch, um, slipping a "I miss you" card in their
luggage before they leave", er, um, wait, um, picnics, baking cookies on a
cold winter night, um, snowball fights, no, wait, playing the in the
autumn leaves, snuggling by candle light, um, wait, arrgghhh......

sorry, I just don't do well under pressure.  can I go now?

chocolate john



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kochmar		 | Estimated amount of glucose used by an adult human
kochmar@sei.cmu.edu	 | brain each day, expressed in M&Ms: 250
SEI Computing Facilities |			-Harper's Index, October 1989
From: 21329KAD@MSU (Kim Dyer)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: A Question for Females
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:13:05 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

>It's hard to go back to liking someone when you loved them.  Not to mention
>the hurt and sometimes angry feelings that usually occur during the breakup
>of a romantic relationship.

Well ... I still "love" my ex-husband in MANY ways.  We are still "sort of"
friends, and I expect will become closer friends again as time wears on.
HOWEVER, this does not mean that I would EVER let him back in to my life
on anywhere NEAR the same level again.  I am still hurt and angry about
many of the things he has said and done.  I'm upset at myself for ALLOWING
him to do the things he did to me.  I'm upset about what *I* turned in to
while I tried to please him.  But I still *love* him in some corner of
my heart.
************************************************************************
*  KIM DYER                    *                                       *
*  208 COMPUTER CENTER         * Had I known this long ago,            *
*  MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY   * I might not have come this way at all *
*  E. LANSING, MI  48824       *                                       *
*                              *                          - Al Stewart *
* 21329KAD @ MSU.BITNET        *                                       *
* 21329KAD @ IBM.CL.MSU.EDU    *                                       *
************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: 21329KAD@MSU (Kim Dyer)
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Organization: Michigan State University
Date: 7 Apr 1992 22:54:31 EDT

>YES!  I completely agree.  If the relationship is going to work out, there is
>NOTHING you can do to break it up.

Sorry, but there are manipulative people out there who just LOVE breaking
up relationships.  I've seen a few in action.  The women in question
(and I suppose there are men who do it too) didn't want the  GUY they
were after ... they wanted to WIN over the woman.

They coo.  They cuddle. They find a weak spot.  ("Oh, I see ... he
believes in past lives.  Well, I'll tell him that I trance channeled
into a past life and we ruled Outer Bubonic together in the 12th
century BC, and have been searching for eachother's souls since."
And this is only a MINOR alteration of something I SAW.)  The wife
is a nag because she doesn't want him to buy a Corvette instead of
groceries.It's not as hard as you think.  All it requires is
pumping the fantasy and ignoring the reality.

And another poster says ....

>I suppose I would not object to trying to 'woo' a married
>person as much.  (j/k)

SOOO.  You want to try to destroy someone's life like that.  It's
VERY easy for an outsider who doesn't have to deal with a mortgage,
kids, and other mundane responsibilities to appear on the scene as
someone's youth restored.  No responsibilies.  Yippeee. And the
person who is destroyed is the one who is most willing to give and
TRY to make things work.

Of course, there IS the thought that the person who YOU have just
wooed away can just as easily leave YOU with 6 kids and a mortgage
when the NEXT one comes along.

Marriage is tough enough, and you need to deal with enough of life's
miseries, without someone trying to place the blame for all the world's
evils on someone else's spouce.
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: aatresa@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline)
Subject: Re: Love Sucks.....
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Yeah, *right* !
Date: 17 Apr 1992 10:36 EST  

In article <1992Apr17.141740.11550@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, pfleming@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick E Fleming) writes...
> 
>Teresa Kline writes:
> 
>>I am perfectly content going for a walk in the park, maybe a picnic that I
>>make up.  Watching a video at home works for me.  None of these activities
>>takes a lot of money.
> 
>But Teresa - those are dates on which you can't hide behind some grandios event
>and you have to deal with one another as people!  (Oops - I guess that's the 
>point, isn't it? :-)
> 

Now you're getting the idea!!!  Romance is fun, playful, and takes two 
*people* who actually like each other.  If you don't *know* each other, how 
do you know if you like each other.
And some of the things that I like to do, as I said in the first-date 
thread, involve activities that make the focus the activity and *not* just 
each other...less stress that way.
But that's just for the first date.  After that, you *gotta* talk!!
-- Teresa

		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!
Xref: sparky alt.romance:7005 alt.romance.chat:9633
From: greg@pomona.claremont.edu (Tigger)
Newsgroups: alt.romance,alt.romance.chat
Subject: Re: Is this a common thing?
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:31:12 GMT
Organization: Pomona College

In article <92104.092434RJD118@psuvm.psu.edu>, RJD118@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>
> Guys, do you feel the way I do, or the other way around?

I feel more or less the same way you do.  In fact, it happened to me.
Except that in my case, she and I had been on the rocks for a few months
and had actually broken up just before she discovered the pregnancy.
We were both smart enough to realize that getting back together for the
sake of the child would be bad for everyone involved, especially since
neither of us were ready to be parents regardless of the status of our
relationship.  She didn't like the idea of an abortion, so we decided on
adoption, which didn't bother me in the slightest since I'm adopted.

I helped out financially by allowing her to come live with me during
her pregnancy, since she didn't want to go home to live with her parents
and she couldn't really stay in school.  The adoption went fine, and I
still see my daughter and her family when I'm in that area.  I have since
also gotten in touch with my birthparents, with nothing but positive
results.  I know some adoptions don't turn out that well, but you just
might want to note that they *can*...

|  Greg Orman                               greg@pomona.claremont.edu  |
|                      Live to ride, Ride to live                      |
|      There might be something there that wasn't there before...      |
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,soc.couples
From: mudcr@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (David C Roller)
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Distribution: world,soc
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:45:55 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.005929.11543@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> rnjx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>I put aside my usual role of nitpicker and general pain-in-the-ass to
>try to woo one member of an existing relationship from that relationship so
>that you may start one with her/him?  Under what circumstances?  How about
>pursuing someone who's engaged?  Where do you all draw the line?  If it isn't
>O.K., would you still do it anyway?
>
I am responding to this without looking at the already numerous other
postings on it.  So I may be reiterating other people but at least I'm
being original in my own mind.

Woo.  To actively woo. wow.  woo no. not woo.  To tell the girl you like
that is in an existing relationship that you'd like to date her is fine.
They're not married they're not engaged so any plans or proably in the
future.  You can tell her that you like her.  I would probably,
personally never want to date anyone who ended a relationship just to
date me.  So I have never told dating women I've been attracted to about
my attraction. But it's your choice.
Where to draw the line?
Is the guy a friend you want to keep?
If he is you may jeopardize his friendship that is a difficult decision.
Engagement is out.  They are getting married.  If the engagement or the
relationship breaks up on its own thats fine but you don't really want
to initiate that.
Well thats just my opinion.
Now I'll read everyone elses
Dave


*******************************************************************************
Dave Roller                            The Great Commission
mudcr@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu                  For The Next Generation

To boldly go  and make disciples of al nations.
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy
Spirit  and teaching them to obey everything Christ has commanded.
Surely He is with us always to the very end of the age and the galaxy
itself.
Star Trek prologue and Matthew 28:18-20
******************************************************************************* 
Xref: sparky alt.romance:7223 soc.singles:11451 soc.couples:2162
From: IO92143@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Donna Foster)
Newsgroups: alt.romance,alt.romance.chat
Subject: Re: End of Story (Was Re: OVER EXCITED *8) )
Date: 3 Apr 92 21:30:03 GMT
 <92040153@gandalf.informatik.rwth-aachen.de>
 <1992Apr03.045456.18065@yuma.acns.colostate.edu>
Organization: University of Maine System

From my fiance:
----------------
Yeah!!!! Way to go, skye! :-) Welcome to the States--hope you're really
happy. :-)
From: afdenis@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Stephen Dennison)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: Ed and Teresa  (Carp ????)
Keywords: Let's mind our own business
Date: 12 Apr 92 01:31:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: lims01.11APR199220314362
Organization: Ancient Souls Inc.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr11.093743.10544@willamette.edu>, ppinkard@willamette.edu (Patrice Pinkard) writes...
>I think we should let Ed & Teresa work it out between the two of them.  What
>do you think?  It doesn't REALLY involve anyone other than E & T. 
> 

I dunno, if it works out right it should *also* involve some T & A and 
maybe even a little S & M. :-)

.. `initially'. {URP}

:-)


> 
> 

-- Stephen 

(The only two valid e-mail addresses from now on are ...)
afdenis@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov,  afdenis@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov
.. boring .sig follows, press n to skip it.

	Never regret a *choice*.  Rather, save your regrets for the
	choices you *didn't* make.
From: erc@pogo.Corp.Sun.COM (Ed Carp)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: LOVE sucks. No question about it.
Keywords: Feelings
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:30:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: pogo.corp.sun.com

In article <1992Apr8.151114.12387@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> tga20201@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (The Traveller) writes:

>No, love doesn't suck, but if you're lucky, he/she does.  ;->

No, no, NO!  You're got it wrong ... she's supposed to suck, and YOU'RE supposed to LICK!
Lick, *not* suck!  Sucking tender parts of a female's anatomy is often uncomfortable, if
not painful - most men don't know the meaning of the word "gentle".

Um ... should folloups be directed to alt.sex? :)
--
Ed Carp                                      415/336-0797 (work)

++ UNIX  SysAdmin, Systems  Programming  Services,  Utilities ++
++ and Programmer Productivity Tools                          ++
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: intrigue@milton.u.washington.edu (Angelwing)
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:21:05 GMT

In article <17808@oasys.dt.navy.mil> goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg) writes:
>In soc.couples, intrigue@milton.u.washington.edu (Angelwing) writes:
>>In article <CSUAT.92Apr8011953@lily.warwick.ac.uk> csuat@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Pet
>>e "Ganders" Favelle) writes:
>>>on 7 Apr 92 05:59:29 GMT,
>>>rnjx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu said:
>>>> The question is this.  Is it ever morally and/or ethically O.K. to actively
>>>> try to woo one member of an existing relationship from that relationship so
>>>> that you may start one with her/him?
>>
>>Oh but dear boys, what about free will here?  You *can't* take anyone away
>>from somebody else.  Impossible.  This isn't the dark ages, you know.  I
>>am with who I am with purely from free choice.  There is no way anyone
>>could "woo me away" because I know what I want and I have it.
>
>If it is a serious relationship that's involved, I believe that is is
>ethically and morally wrong for me to intrude on the relationship.
>It shows a serious lack of respect for the other guy involved. 

To make my point - since you seem to have *missed* it - I shall have to
Tryvgize for a moment.  (Gosh Trygve, I hope you don't mind that we've
named relating personal anecdotes after you.)  *Anyway* when I was married
and relatively happy with my situation I was often flirted with because I
was in the public eye.  A man I had had a short conversation with showed
up where I worked one night.  Oh, he was handsome and tall and looked just
like Tom Selleck.  He obviously liked me.  He asked me out.  I was
astonished because I hadn't been giving him "available" vibes and I was
married.  So I turned him down, of course.  "Well thank you.  I'm very
flattered.  But I'm married."  See?  He couldn't "take me away" from my
husband.  It wasn't even a possiblity.  BUT, years later when I was so
beaten down from a loveless relationship I opened myself up to a man who
had been flirting with me and ...well I ended up finally rejecting my
marriage.  Again, it was *MY* decision.  Neither of these men had anything
much to do with it - either one of them could have had changed positions. 
It had to do with my state of mind.

Interesting aside though -- I mean if you're into personal revelations --
I kind of kept track of that man who had the balls to ask me out when I
was married.  We hung out at the same coffeehouse and whenever I was in
town and when I finally settle back down I would see him every now and
again.  And so five years after the event we started dating.  *I* had to
make the first move that time, though.


Angelwing -  Principles?  I've got lots of them.

*------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Angelwing       |"Two things are wanted by a true man, danger and*
* U. of Washington| play - therefore, he seeks woman as the most   *
*                 | dangerous toy."       Friedrich Nietzsche      *
*------------------------------------------------------------------*

Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,soc.couples