From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: ShadowRun HEROIC??? (was Re: Burn, GURPS...)
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:18:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.C1DEu9.7Kv
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

cwagner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Christian Wagner) writes:

><chuckles at the wonderful SR pseudo-slang> Tell me, Axly, would you play a 
>character like Slick Henry (from _Mona Lisa Overdrive_) in SR? Someone with no
>cybercrap, no ultra-skills, no real advantages to speak of except being an 
>interesting character?

No. I'm not interested in that sort of character. Heck, I play that type of
person everyday, it's no real roleplaying stretch.

>Wonder-schmucks like Cowboy and Molly have a place in cyberpunk, yes, but in 
>SR, -everyone- is like Cowboy, or Molly, or Case. Due to the very nature of 
>the game, you -can't- play an interesting character, because the game is 
>basically one firefight after another, in search of a particular person/chip/
>diskette/demonic artifact/bigger gun. 

No, that's the very nature of your game. I think you are suffering from
"I have to be weak to be interesting" syndrome. People with incredible
abilities are just as human and just as interesting as people who have
no abilities. *Shrug* What's the difference? They both have personalities,
both have needs and desires, and both have things they are trying to 
accomplish with their lives. 

>That's what I meant. In, for example, GURPS, or ever Cyberpunk 2020, or even
>-Hero- for Christ's sake, an -unskilled- person can unload a 12-gague at PB 
>range and there is a chance (which varies from game system to game system) that
>the target will be dead. 
>This cannot happen in SR; the -only- way to boost the damage of a weapon is to 
>be skilled with it. That 10S shotgun cannot kill, -period-, unless one is 
>skilled with it, and that is utter and complete bullshit.

The whole "damage is not realistic" argument is silly. RPG's don't have
realistic damage. GURPS cyberpunk is no more realistic than any other.
So you can kill someone with a 12 gauge if you are unskilled by game
mechanics. Big deal. Heck, if your GM can't make judgement calls, then
why is she GMing? Ever see anyone get nicked with a piece of shrapnel,
go into shock and die in GURPS cyberpunk? Doesn't happen, does it? 
Well, that happens in real combat... 

><AHEM> 1) The grenade-in-the-shorts problem still exists, which you didn't 
>mention at all, and 2) Again, an unskilled person can't kill someone with a 
>heavy pistol. 

Okay, so your character puts a grenade in his shorts. Someone else already
argued that one eloquently, so I'll just say if anyone stuck a grenade
in his shorts in any game, I'll just have him write up a new character. 
Yes, game systems come up with some freaky shit. There's a whole book someone
(I think SJG) puts out showing all the ridiculousness that happens in various
games when you play it out of it's "normal" setting. SRun isn't made to
simulate how guns themselves, regardless of owners, affect people. *shrug*
Go playing Living Steel if you want that. However, I suspect your main bitch
is that you want a semi-skilled character to carry a big gun and take people
out with a lucky shot.

>I haven't heard of an SR campaign yet that isn't seriously combat-intensive, 
>and which doesn't deal with that bastard plot device, having the characters get
>hired to go blow away someone/steal something/extract someone/etc etc. It's 
>barely an RPG in my book, closer to a &#@! tactical simulation. 

Just curious, but how long have you been reading this newsgroup? There have
been plenty of posts about people who don't play SRun the way it is normally
written up. Hell yeah most people play SR as a gun combat game. Most people
play ADD as a hack and slash, and almost every RPG out there is played
by a lot of people who turn it into a "kill the bad guys, rescue the girl.."
game. That doesn't mean the system is at fault, that just means that most
of the people who play it think that's the only way it can be played. 
I'll bet you there are just as many silly dungeon crawls with corps security
as orks being played with GURPS Cyberpunk..well, I take that back, SRun
sells a lot more, but you get the point.

Axly

********************************************************************************
*   Axly      *  "Is Axly tough? Yes. Talented? Yes. Brave? Oh, certainly.     *
* Red Sword   *   He is also erratic, irresponsible, accident-prone, and a     *
*   Targa     *   constant threat to public safety. The trick is to keep him   *
*             *   pointed in the right direction. "                            *
*             *         -Niki                                                  *
********************************************************************************