From: seah@fraser.sfu.ca (Simon Seah)
Subject: Re: Magic in HERO games
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 06:30:23 GMT

mb8p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark A. Baxter) writes:

>1) buy it as a power, flat rate.  This gets expensive for the character
>though realistically it is a fairly accurate representation.  A
>variation on this for specialist mages is to buy spells in an elemental
>control.  This is an option I haven't really explored because I kind of
>feel it violates the spirit of an EC.
To buy each spell as a seperate power is, in my opinion, way to expensive,
especially if the mage wants a nice spread of spells.

I'm not sure what you mean by "accurate representation".  If you mean
time spent studying spells <=> CP, perhaps.  Just remember, though,
an ancient artifact knife that costs $1 mil but does 1d6K costs just as
much as a kitchen knife that does 1d6K.  Mechanically, they are the same,
special-effect wise, there's a big difference.
Instead of enforcing high costs, you may wish to instead enforce
availability.  Going back to the knife example, not everyone can get
a $1 mil artifact, but kitchen knifes can be picked up just about anywhere.

As for the EC's "spirit", I guess it's a matter of opinion.  But I would
tend to rule that if it's got a tight concept, say "lightning-based
effects", then it might be passable.

>2) buy it as a slot in multipower.  The multipool is the amount of
>magical ability (innate) you have, the slots each represent one spell
>you've learned.  I allow slots to have limitations against the pool cost
>in this case so a 6d6 EB slot with act.14 and 2xEnd would take up 15
>pool points, rather than a full thirty. This system is actually too
>flexible, as slots for new abilities are much too cheap.  I've
>considered requiring the character to by a KS for each spell equal to
>1/10 the active points in the slot.  This would raise the cost somewhat
>I think.  This is what I use in superheroic campaigns.
I, too, allow limitations on multipower slots.  It becomes very cheap,
but sometimes it's the only way to simulate enough effects for characters
without points in the 4-digit range.
If you let multipowers be an option, but think the slots cost too little,
make them buy seperate multipowers, each with a tight theme.  Not "magic",
but "bolt spells", or "fire-spells".
This amounts to specialization :  if he wants spells with different
themes, he'll have to pay more.

>3) buy a magic power pool where the character can change spells from any
>to any but with limitations as to when they can change.  This is the
>predominant system in "Mystic Masters" and I dont feel it represents my
>conception of a mage who knows a given number of spells which can be
>used.  This gives at once too much flexibility "well, I'll just create a
>2d6 AP Hka spell to slay the demon with, since I know he's highly
>resistant to lightning and swords."  And not enough "Sorry guys the
>three spells I have are flight, Force field, and a 5d6 EB".
>Also, the infinite flexibility sounds to much like infinite power in
>game terms if not real terms.  
Limitations on the pool control cost such as "-.5 only fire-based powers",
or "-.5 non-mental effects".  This cuts down on flexibility.  You might
even want to try "-.5 only spells as listed in Palladium's RIFTS".
As well, enforce the "AP <= VPP Reserve" rule.  This greatly cuts down
on what they can do.
I personally let players have "RP and BP <= VPP Reserve" :  ie. if there
is 30 points in the reserve, the mage can have a max. attack of 2d6K (for
example), with whatever modifiers, as long as total cost does not exceed
30 points.  I find that this gives players a little more flexibility,
(for pools <= 60 CP in Reserve) but they still can't do the really fancy
stuff unless they pump mega-points into the pool (say, 150 in reserve?).

Yet another option is to have the character have multiple KS for the pool,
one for each "area" of magic, say, "manipulation of fire".  Here,
categories outlined by RoleMaster Companion I, under the Magical
Languages section, might be helpful.
I have an archmage character who has an "archmage package".  He knows
the first magical tongue, +all dialects (I think he blew over 30 points
on magical languages alone; +1 CP per +1 dialect, each giving him +1 or
+2 to his KS :  magic).

>    None of these have the right flavor for a non-supers campaign like a
>Shadowrun or Rifts style.  I'd like to hear how others do these things. 
If you defined what "flavor" means to you, that might help more.

Simon
-liberal GM (I think...)