HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Vonda N McIntyre's METAPHASE (3rd in series begun w STARFARERS)
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:08:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


     Has anyone read this?  I think it's a relatively new release, but
     I didn't chance upon it in the New Releases section (it's 92 in the
     copyright).  

     Wow.  At least as good as STARFARERS.  I didn't like the second
     book very much, TRANSITION.  The political machinations were well
     handled in context with STARFARERS, but the book never presents
     the promised goods: first contact.  The "alien humans," Europa and
     Androgeos, taken from earth, I believe, during the Egyptian 
     civilization (or Greek?), were annoying and disappointing after
     the promise of STARFARER'S ending.

     But METAPHASE reveals the second book as a necessary evil,
     as Europa and Androgeos are far more pivotal to the incredible
     conclusion at 61 Cygni and the book expends an incredible amount
     of energy (successfully, I think) in the presentation of mankind's
     true first contact: with the squidmoth, Nemo, who is an outcast 
     from interstellar civilization in a somewhat similar manner --
     we think -- as humans have been.

     Vonda's prose has never been better.  Her characters are as
     interesting today as they were in the first book and events
     in the mission unpredictible before keep interest in Starfarer
     as high as it was in the first book.  

     A fantastic novel by an underrated (in my opinion) author... anyone's
     thoughts?  (I wonder if Vonda's in the middle of a head rush at
     her terminal right now?)

     Now if only somebody knew when Diane Duane's THROUGH A GLASS
     DARKLY, a Star Trek: The Next Generation hardcover by an equally
     amazing, and equally underrated, author, was coming out... I had
     heard this Christmas... but it's still not on anybody's impending
     releases list through June 93.  (shit).

     Scott Gorcey
From: doom@elaine36.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Brenner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Anarchy in S.F.
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:18:36 GMT
Organization: DSO, Stanford University


Cecilia Holland's FLOATING WORLDS is a really good example
that hasn't been mentioned yet.  

I particularly like a scene near the beginning where the
main character takes time off from work to organize a
one-woman boycott of a pawn shop that received some property
stolen from her.
From: HMUSAMWS@admin.uh.edu (SUMBERA, MICHEAL W.)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Lost novels by Philip K. Dick (was: Re: Kim Stanley Robinson)
Date: 16 Dec 1992 13:52:12 GMT
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: uhad7.admin.uh.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <5429@disun44.epfl.ch> margot@disuns2.epfl.ch writes:

> I would also like to add another precision regarding Michael Sumbera's post.
> The writings Michael refers to in his post as still being unpublished are
> "Gather Yourself Together" and "Voices from the Street". These both novels
> are not lost, even if I don't remember on the spot where the manuscript is.

I think both Glen and I were trying to point out that the posthumous PKD novels
were not "lost" during his life-time just unsold.  A re-evaluation of his main-
stream work oafter his death has allowed the majority of those novels to now be
pubished.

Also, there is an effort currently underway to publish _Gather Yourselves
Together_.  As I understand it, the manuscript is currently being prepared for
typesetting, but the publisher is still trying to line up funding for actual
printing/binding of the book.  Definitely from a small press publisher.

MWS
hmusamws@admin.uh.edu
Down in the basement, we hear the sound of machines.
From: chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris Barrus)
Subject: Re: Eco-Catastrophe Novel Request
In-reply-to: REYNOLDS@HOPE.CIT.HOPE.EDU's message of 15 Dec 92 20:42:00 GMT
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: Dept. of Physics, Univ. of California, Irvine
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:57:03 GMT


BTW, _Nature's End_ can still be found at used bookstores.  I've usually seen
one or more copies at almost every used bookstore I frequent.

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Barrus - P.O. Box 5115 - Irvine - CA - 92716 - chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu

           Sacred cows make the best hamburger - Abbie Hoffman
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: al@iris.claremont.edu (ere i am, jh)
Subject: Re: Literary SF
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:59:25 GMT

Science Fiction:  Delany, LeGuin, Dick, and Powers
Fantasy:  Crowley, Crowley, Crowley, and Powers
-- 
Michael L. Medlin  al@iris.claremont.edu
"I know why
 Fish swim in the sky
 Beat their leather wings
From: ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew C. Plotkin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Mass minds (was: Greg Bear Blood Music)
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:42:44 GMT
	<1992Dec12.175003.5414@galileo.physics.arizona.edu>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 12-Dec-92 Re: Mass minds
(was: Greg B.. sometimes a Wombat@solit (1083)

> Mass minds by telelpathy seem to come in two flavors.  First there is
> the form where, since this improves communication, it is a good thing.

> Second is where this is a living hell, as we would then get to "hear"
> all the little nasty impulses of everybody, learn exactly what they
> think of us, have no privacy, etc.  It seems to me that this would be
> closer to the truth.

There was a wonderful _Analog_ story which (as usual) I have no idea
what the author and title were. Premise was that all of Earth's
telepaths had picked up and colonized another planet. There was no such
thing as a mind shield (natural or technological), so the situation was
rather like the second one you describe.

Several interesting things arose. Yes, everybody could "hear" everyone
else's stray thoughts; but that was accepted and normal. Different
social mores. You didn't put any effort into being polite when you're
really angry, for example. Dating got a *lot* simpler. Nobody bothered
closing the curtains when they wanted to have sex.

There was a concept of privacy; but the way it worked was that if you
didn't want to be bothered about something, people knew it, and didn't
bother you. (Their telepathy got weaker with distance. Being in the city
was like hearing a constant "scruff" of mumbling in the background; you
could "tune out" and try to ignore it, or focus in on particular
"voices." If you were right next to someone, the contact was too loud to
tune out. It never completely went away, even far away.)

It was in no sense a "living hell." 

These people were able to "tune in" to each other more strongly and form
a sort of a mass mind, but they didn't do it much -- the mass mind just
wasn't any smarter than individual people, and a lot more indecisive.
They used it as a concensus / voting mechanism, mostly.

There were some other problems, but I won't go into them for fear of
spoilers. If anybody remembers the title, author, or date of this story,
please post -- I'd rather like to find and read it again.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
From: burt@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Burt Voorhees)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Literary SF
Keywords: Literary SF
Date: 13 Dec 92 03:55:11 GMT

>In article <guay.724099614@sfu.ca> guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay) writes:
>>Hi;
>>
>>Can anyone recommend any literary SF books/authors? IE: stuff that isn't
>>mainstream commercial SF.

Try Doris Lessing, the Canopus In Argos series.
There are five books in this series, not directly
related to each other, although they share characters.
1. Shikasta:  A very complex book which is best understood
after several readings.  One also needs to know of Lessings
association with, and use of themes expounded by, Idries Shah.
Shah has written a number of books, the best for an introduction
to his work is The Sufis.
2.  The Marriages of Zones Three, Four, and Five: A fantasy fairy
tale which gives one of the best studies of male/female relations
I have come across.  It deals not only with the "battle" of the sexes,
but also with what it is that we are really suppose to be doing with
our energies.
3.  The Sirian Experiments:  Another very complex book, following
on the themes begun in Shikasta.
4.  The Making of the Representative From Plante 8:  (Sorry, that's
Planet 8)  A very short and very dense book.  It's about life, and
the questions of personal identity and destiny.
5.  The Sentimental Agents in the Volyan Empire:  A very pointed satire
set in an empire which suffers from a horrible disease: Undulant Retoric...
burt voorhees
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers)
Subject: Ending of Tigana question *spoilers*
Keywords: tigana
Reply-To: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:26:03 GMT

I just finished Tigana.  I'd never heard of Kay before as I'm only an
infrequent sf or f reader.  Anyway, I picked it up on a whim the other
day.  It was really good - far above the norm IMO.

I have a question about the very last paragraph of the book.  Sandre,
Baerd and Devin see a Riselka (sp?) at the same time.  I knew three
men meeting one at the same time had some significance but I forgot
what it was and couldn't find it again in the book.  It went something
like: "One will find his path, one will die,...".  Can anyone tell me
what three things happen?

Also, are Kay's other works as good?  I'm not much of a sophisticated
reader but I really thought Tigana was a superior book.  Your milage
will likely vary...
-- 
Keith Rogers
krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,soc.history
From: miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman )
Subject: Re: Civil War Alternate Histories
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:12:25 GMT

glhewitt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Gary Livingston Hewitt) writes:

>A possible theory is that in a political sense, the abolition of slavery
>enables a full conversion to a free-labor economy, that is, a system in
>which one is required to sell one's labor-power in a market (or _the_
>market, for that matter), in which the relationship between employer
>(say, owner of land/capital) and employee is mediated only by a wage.
>In this argumetn, the existence of slavery _in_any_form_ tends to
>undermine this abstracted relationship, and so the political result is
>that capitalists like to abolish slavery, in order that their new labor
>system which involves fewer responsibilities towards their employees can
>be justified.  This is often accompanied by Arminian religion, by the
>way.

	A common practice of Roamns to get out of having to
	take care of their older slaves was to free them when they
	became burdensome.

	- Michael Goldman

-- 
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives." - Abba Eban
	Disclaimer:  All views are solely my own & not the views of Acuson.
	<sun!sono!miklg>  or  [miklg@acuson.com]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rvf@netcom.com (Richard Frueh)
Subject: Re: Motorcycle Science Fiction
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 09:02:04 GMT

In article <1h16tkINNrbo@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen) writes:
>
>In a previous article, troly@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Bret Jolly) says:
>
>>In article <9212181351.AA04903@rutgers.edu> JXA01@albnydh2.BITNET writes:
>>
>>>Could someone please help? I am looking for science fiction stories that
>>>have motorcycling as a main theme or component of the story. >
>>
>There was also a post-holocaust novel covering the adventures of a Hell's
>Angel.  Don't recall the title offhand, but the author's name began with a
>W.

_The Lost Traveller_, by Steve Wilson. 1976, ISBN 0-345-34113-9

Plot: America is no more, large portions wasteland - scientist figures way
to fix, needs protection. Was all right.

Richard Frueh 	         	rvf@netcom.COM
-- Just imagine a really neat quote here --
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Keywords: tigana
Date: 18 Dec 92 03:42:05 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu


	My buy-on-sight:

	Clive Cussler (the Dirk Pitt novels)
	Harry Harrison, if it's a Stainless Steel Rat novel
	Zelazny, if it's Amber

	If Donaldson did another fantasy sequence, or continued either
the Covenant or Mordant series, I'd grab it right away

	Niven and Pournelle are grabbed most of the time


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: harit@kripalu.com
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Reply-To: harit@kripalu.com
Organization: Kripalu Center
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 13:57:31 GMT

My auto-buy list:

	Crystal Singer series by McCaffery
	Rift War series by Feist
	Probably still Pern books
	Richard Bach
	Niven & Pournell together
	David Brin (in particular the sequal to Uplift War when it is out)

-- 
Michael Allen Latta
Kripalu Center
harit@kripalu.com
(413)448-3288
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: The Wheel of Time: Prophecies and Portents
Originator: hillyard@tiger.msc.cornell.edu
Reply-To: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 10:03:11 GMT

From article <darknite.724226280@camelot>, by darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III):
> In <1992Dec10.130729.5499@msc.cornell.edu> hillyard@msc.cornell.edu writes:
> 
[...]
>>Lan
>>	Seven ruined Towers
>>	A babe in a cradle holding a sword
> 
> For instance, the seven ruined towers might simply be Lan's past
> history.

I think that may be correct.  In which case the baby is Lan.

> I must be dense.  Or reading TSR right before finals has dulled
> my mind.  In either case, who or what is Isam, please?
> 

As Lan is the son of the last king, Isam is the son of those whose plotting
brought the destruction of the Malkier.

> 
>>Logain
>>	A halo of gold and blue, signifying glory to come
> 
> From what else I've read in this thread, it seems that other
> people think that Logain will go to take Callandor again, as

I don't know about people.  I've mentioned it twice and got no
input either way.  I guess if I post enough I qualify as people :).

> well.  I do, to.  Given also the discussion of means around
> stilling/gentling, I don't find it all to unlikely that we'll see
> Logain ungentled.  Perhaps he learns to trickle a little power
> around the shields, and uses Callandor to magnify his power and
> break it?

This is my thinking.  What led me toward the conclusion originally
is Rand's comment that his trap gets sprung by use of the power.  Perhaps
it can be foiled by someone who has been gentled.

[...]
> 
>>	Into the heart he thrusts his sword,
>>	into the heart, to hold their hearts.
>>	Who draws it out shall follow after,
>>	What hand can grasp that fearful blade?
> 
>>I have a random, perhaps not too likely hunch, that Logain ends
>>up drawing Callandor and it allows him to reverse his gentling.

> ble.  However, who draws it out shall follow after.
> Does this mean Logain will help Rand?

That is my interpretation.

SEH
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rcrowley@donne.zso.dec.com (Rebecca Crowley)
Subject: Re: Anarchy in S.F.
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:29:10 GMT

robert j kolker (rjk@world.std.com) wrote:
: I can think of two SF novels that have anarchy or anarchic societies as a
: theme and context. They are:

Vernor Vinge's Realtime stories, esp. the short story "The Ungoverned"
and, to a lesser degree, _Marooned in Realtime_.  There's another novel
before those two, _The Peace War_.  The three were collected in _Across
Realtime_.  Excellent sf.
From: colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Colin Roald)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Auto-buy lists
Keywords: tigana
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:54:18 GMT
Organization: U(r) AstroTheory Group

swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen) writes:
>Yes.  Kay is now on my (very short) auto-buy list.
>[Along with David Brin].

I'm suddenly curious--what authors are on other people's "auto-buy" lists?
Meaning that if you see one of their books and you don't have yet and the 
money is in your pocket, you buy it--no further questions asked.

Myself, I've got David Brin and Lois McMaster Bujold.  I also have a couple
of probationary candidates, like Norman Spinrad (RUSSIAN SPRING just blew
me away) and Terry Pratchett.  (I hesitate with Pratchett because he fails
the strict criteria above--I don't always buy his new stuff, partly because
I have a lingering suspicion of over-the-top comedy, and partly because
I know buying one is going to nuke the rest of my day, and I can't always
afford that.)



colin roald rational |  he opened up his mind and popped out of the groove
   romantic mystic   |  he saw both sides of everything and found he could
  cynical idealist   |    not move.                    -- james mcmurtry
From: dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Rama Reveiled by A.C. Clarke
Date: 17 Dec 92 03:42:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
NNTP-Posting-Host: b63519.student.cwru.edu

In article <MATT.92Dec16164612@physics2.berkeley.edu> matt@physics2.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern) writes:
>In article <102397@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>
>> >The first Rama book was BORING.  People land, people gawk at the
>> >scenery without really finding anything out, people kill monkeys, 
>> >people leave.  There's no conflict (except for that last part about
>> >the monkeys), it's just they look around and leave.  They don't
>> >even find much out about the aliens--just that they're THERE.
>
>Actually, in fact, the characters in the book do find out something
>important about the aliens: they are beyond human comprehension.  

This is what makes me despise the later Rama books. The alien's motives are 
uncovered, which completely destroys the feeling of awe that Rendezvous gave 
me. One thing that Clarke has always been good at (which he loses in the 
later Ramas) is creating aliens that feel truly _alien_. If you read the 
book (can't remember the title) about the making of 2001, you see how he 
went through a series of ideas as to what would be beyond the star gate -- 
and settled on what, IMHO, was the best choice: to make the aliens utterly 
incomprehensable to us.

I have the same attitude to the later Rama novels as I have towards 
Highlander 2 -- I refuse to acknowledge their existance, lest I destroy my 
love of the original.
-----
Damien Neil   dpn2@po.cwru.edu    "Until somebody debugs reality, the best
Case Western Reserve University    I can do is a quick patch here and there."
CMPS/EEAP double majoring masochist               - Erik Green
From: ojvind@chagall.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Writers Of The Future contest
Date: 12 Dec 1992 18:49:42 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: chagall.cns.caltech.edu

In article <1gd34qINNps@agate.berkeley.edu> chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien) writes:
>Is this still on? I picked up a copy of the 1984 _WotF_ book, and found
>some familiar names. Karen Jay Fowler and >Nina K. Hoffman, for example.

Yes, it's still on.  I just got the newsletter about the 8th awards
ceremony which this year was held in D.C.  Some previous winners include
Dave Wolverton, Zindell, K.K. Rush (now editor of MSFS), and the editor
of Pulphouse.  I was one of the lucky winners two years ago, but have
achieved a notorious lack of fame.  Like so many writers I've found
that just because you sell one story doesn't mean it'll be easy to
sell a second story (it took Octavia Butler 5 years...)  I heartily
recommend the contest for budding writers:  if you win you get to 
workshop with Budrys and Wolverton and meet a lot of interesting people.

-- Ojvind
From: dac@prolix.apana.org.au (Andrew Clayton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 18:23:19 GMT
 <1992Dec18.181042.20716@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Organization: More like Dis~, really.
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00 beta rel2

In article <1992Dec18.181042.20716@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, Stephen Graham writes:

> In article <1992Dec18.015418.23388@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Colin Roald) writes:
> >swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen) writes:
> >>Yes.  Kay is now on my (very short) auto-buy list.
> >>[Along with David Brin].
> >
> >I'm suddenly curious--what authors are on other people's "auto-buy" lists?
> >Meaning that if you see one of their books and you don't have yet and the 
> >money is in your pocket, you buy it--no further questions asked.

Dac's hastily crafted list:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Iain M. Banks
Tim Powers
David Brin
Larry Niven
Greg Bear [nearly always]
C.J. Cherryh
Bob Shaw
Lois McMaster Bujold
George R.R. Martin
Tom Holt      <-- relatively new addition, and not SF, but like Pratchett ...
David Gerrold
R.A. Lafferty [alas, he's dead]
Stephen King  [oops]
Pat Cadigan
Orson Scott Card [er, well, depends]
Fred Pohl
Hal Clement


Authors I *used* to buy on sight:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Douglas Adams
Piers Anthony    [I got better]
Jack L. Chalker  [I'll get his next Well World book though]
Alan Dean Foster
Robert Heinlein  [I've read it all]
Arthur C. Clarke
James P. Hogan
Glen Cook        [I HATED his fantasy stuff]
Timothy Zahn
Ian McDonald
Robert L. Forward
Gregory Benford



Authors I avoid with extreme prejudice:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Doris Lessing
Allan Steele
Anne McCaffrey [with exceptions]
That idjit who wrote the GOR series
L. Ron Hubbard
William Shatner [This Ron Goulart, I guess]
Jerry Pournelle [exceptions - his co-authored stuff with Niven]
Tom Maddox      [_Halo_ was crap]
Joel Rosenberg  ["sitting, tailor fashion". ARRGGHHHH]
Philip Jose Farmer
Michael Moorcock

There are dozens of other authors who I would say 'oh, yeah, them
too', should I see them in a list.

Dac
--
dac@prolix.apana.org.au              David Andrew Clayton.           // _| _  _
dac@prolix.sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au      Canberra, Australia           \X/ (_](_](_
                    <Using ARN on an Amiga 4000. Yay!>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine)
Subject: Re: Recommendation wanted: Books about magicians 
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:04:11 GMT

_A Wizard of Earthsea_ is a good book about magicians.

So's the Hellblazer trade paperack, "Original SIns" if you're
into weird magic users like our John Constantine, and like comic books.

LJC
-- 
Lady Johanna Constantine is going home for vacation from 12-18-92 until 1-10-93
tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu*I will miss you all (except Kevin Kline on r.a.animation) 
Founder of the Church of Our Lady of the Perpetually Clueless
Disclaimer: The U of I doesn't give a damn or blast WHAT I do
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Keywords: tigana
Date: 18 Dec 92 03:48:16 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu



	Oh, yeah, a couple more:

	Brian Daley (Coramonde or Floyt/Fitzhugh, not his adaptations)
	Alan Dean Foster (Flinx)
	Terry Brooks (So far I've liked everything I've seen...)

	Barbara Hambly used to be on that list; I'm wavering on her now.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;