From: nobby@stein.u.washington.edu (Vitaly Shmatikov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Crime and punishment/CH(G)...
Date: 24 Jan 1993 09:21:53 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

In article <1jtgn5$lfo@agate.berkeley.edu> alpet@ocf.berkeley.edu (Alex Petrushko) writes:
>In article <1jsp4iINN8kc@shelley.u.washington.edu> nobby@stein.u.washington.edu (Vitaly Shmatikov) writes:
>>In article <C1BwEw.Fw2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>> So let's restate earlier question, given that you are a person with 
>>> a reasonable knowledge of your surroundings, where would you feel safer 
>>> in NYC or in Moscow?
>>
>>NYC without a tinge of doubt. I rode NYC subway many times, occasionally
>>as late as 2am, and hardly felt any jeopardy.  
>
>>Contrariwise, NYC is reasonably safe. 3/4 of all neighborhoods are
>>positively secure and the rest can be eschewed without any effort.
>
>This needs a little explanation, which, in essence, is very simple.
>Mr. Shmatikov obviously has a very slanted viewpoint, resulting from
>a personal bias that I might  guess has arisen from his personal
>experience in his earlier "stint" in Sovok. 

Since the Soviet crime rates are still classified, the only reliable
source of information is one's personal experience or the combination
thereof. Not only was I assailed on numerous occasions but also all
of my Moscow acquaintances have been offended at least 3-4 times. 
Unlike NYC, Moscow crime is not confined to a particular cluster of 
neighborhoods. One can be held up on Moscow University premises as 
readily as, say, nearby the subway stop "Krasnogvardeiskaya" which is 
notorious for its violence.

>In other words, don't take this post very seriously -- it's only weak 
>and hardly eloquent misrepresentation of reality. 

Well, I do not endeavour for any singular eloquence. Insofar as my
representantion of reality is concerned, I cling to the cosy posture of 
methodological solipsism for all practical purposes. My own apprehensions 
and observations suffice for my dealings with the external world.

>Your "subway experience" is very funny, indeed, since
>the fact that you didn't feel jeopardy in NYC subway at 2am in the morning
>directly points out that you either inhaled or didn't exhale.

I am ready to repeat this stunt on request of anybody willing to pay
my round-trip airfare to NYC. The subway there is absolutely safe
at night. On the other hand, the reading of "NY Post" and the recounting 
of FOAF stories about somebody bumped off in the subway 10 years ago may 
prove deleterious to one's ability of sound judgement.

>
>>America beyond inner cities is not even worth talking about. My own
>>experience is that in countryside Russia after 5pm it's an arduous task
>>to find a sober male who is older than 14. Juxtapose it and any American 
>>suburb. In fact, if one excludes inner city ghettos from the statistics, 
>>the American crime situation appears quite decent.
>
> Quite decent? I don't know about Seattle but nobody would force me to walk
> through East LA barrios at night -- the probability of me being shot
> would be higher than 100%!!! As for the percent of drunkards in the American
> suburb... I don't know why did you compare Russian countryside and 
> American suburb -- usually people compare something that has some 
> connection... If you would compare American countryside and Russian 
> countryside, and 
> cite a VALID statistical source, I will consider searching for more
> serious arguments.
>

Crime in Seattle is non-existent as such. I do believe that LA slums
should be shunned by any sensible person. At the same time, I am
more than sure that once not in a violent section of the city, you can
hazard outside without fear of being mugged right on your tracks.

Now to the statistics and American suburbs. Firstly, a considerable
moiety of American populace dwells in the suburbs, and if we are to
examine the respective criminal situations of the U.S.A. and Russia
we ought to collate Staryi Oskol and Hopkinsville, NJ rather than
NYC and Moscow. Second, if my memory does not fail me, 85% of all
homicides in America occur in urban areas which is not exactly where
the majority of law-abiding citizens reside. Shall my cavilers exhibit
keener curiosity in the subject, I am ready to look up the pertinent
statistical data.

>>nobby@u.washington.edu
>>
>
>Shura.

nobby@u.washington.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet