HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: HYPOCRISY of Public School Prayer
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:00:34 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Oct15.121240.9105@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>, eaton@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bob Eaton x3478) writes:
> > I mean, what is there to pray about anyway.... there certainly
> > aren't any aggressive bullies in public schools, we've
> > proven that beyond a shadow of doubt (they are all myth right :-)
> > Drugs, guns, STDs, pregnancy, no sweat.  Climbing academic
> > scores, the USA has the top students in the world right!
> 
> This reminds me of a (subversive Christian :-) cartoon that showed in one 
> schoolroom a bunch of obvious drug heads hanging (and making) out, and in 
> another one some students trying to have a Bible study.
> 
> The Principle and teacher were examining the situation and exclaiming that, 
> "We got to stop this [Bible study] right now!!!"
> 
> Aren't we silly?

Nope.  Tell me, whose Bible was it?  Would a Jewish parent approve of
it?  How about a Moslem parent?  Maybe the school is in Salt Lake City,
and it's the Book of Mormon.  Would most mainstream Protestant parents
approve?  I'm not saying they'd prefer drug users (though I could
insert some comments here about ritual use of peyote by some Native
American tribes -- and their religion is as valid as any other), but
they're certainly not going to like some kinds of ``Bible study''.
(Btw, I'm deliberately leaving out atheists, so that I don't touch off
the usual ranting and raving about how it's secular humanism, or
liberalism, or whatever, that causes all these ills.  Let's stick to
one flamefest at a time.)

I'm sure some fingers are crawling towards the ``Followup'' keys right
about now, so that they can explain how it's going to be ``voluntary''
prayer, Bible study, etc.  Before you do -- might I suggest that you
turn to the thread about bullies, and see how often it's the children
who are different who are picked on?  We all want our children to stand
up for what is right (for our own definition of ``right'', of course)
-- but how many kids are going to act ``different'' deliberately,
especially if they're already having trouble with their classmates?
And naturally, if the teacher or some other authority figure is leading
the ``voluntary'' prayer, some children will, quite unconsciously,
follow along, just to please him or her.

Parents who want their children to pray should teach them to do so, of
course.  If they think it's necessary that they pray in schools, they
should select private schools.  Public schools -- run by a government
banned from promoting any particular religion, or even religion in
general -- have no business fostering any sort of religious practice.

		--Steve Bellovin
Xref: sparky misc.kids:25988 alt.parents-teens:1293 misc.education:3706
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,alt.parents-teens,misc.education,k12.teacher.chat
Subject: U.S. Government Launches Anti-Drug Abuse Program in Schools
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:52:40 GMT
Organization: NDA


I thought you would want to see the following press release from the
Skyshapers Foundation.

 U.S. Government Launches Anti-Drug Abuse Program in Schools
 To: Assignment Desk, Education Writer
 Contact: John Wesley, 301-770-7390, ext. 235; or
          Nancy Mulligan, 301-770-7390, ext. 258,
          both for the Skyshapers Foundation

   News Advisory:

   At 9 a.m. on Thursday, Oct. 15, the Skyshapers Foundation, in
collaboration with the U.S. Public Health Service and the President's
Council on Physical Fitness and Sports, will announce the creation of
an entertaining in-school program -- Skyshapers.
   Using animated characters and rock and rap music, Skyshapers
materials will give the nation's children tools for building
self-esteem and a future free of alcohol and other drugs.  The U.S.
Surgeon General, Dr. Antonia Novello, will speak at the event, along
with Captain John Butterfield from the President's Council on
Physical Fitness and Sports, Ellie Dylan, founder of Skyshapers, and
Michael Cookson, president of AVIVA Sports, a corporate sponsor of
the program.  Other speakers include Elaine Johnson, Ph.D., acting
administrator of the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Administration
and Vivian Smith, M.S.W., acting director of the Center for Substance
Abuse Prevention.
   There will also be first-grade students present from Ashburton
Elementary School in Montgomery County, who have been using the
Skyshapers materials, as well as singers from the Duke Ellington
School, who will perform the Skyshapers theme song, along with the
Surgeon General.
   This event will be held in the Main Lounge of the National Press
Club, 14th and F streets, N.W., Washington, D.C.
 -30-

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: yarnot@babbage.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: When did you feel "grown-up"  (was: Re: maternity lingerie)
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:07:49 GMT
Organization: Moi?

In article <3750@master.CNA.TEK.COM> judyd@rosebud.CNA.TEK.COM (Judy E. Drake) writes:
>
>I don't think I'll _ever_ feel grown up, but there are times when I
I saw my mother through her last illness last year, and still want my Mommy
when I think about it, so I must agree...
>definitely feel OLD, i.e.:
>
>- when I realized that my 21-year-old nanny classed me in with her mother's 
>  generation

I must have been a whopping 24 with 2.5 children when I saw a couple of "teeny-
boppers" (my words) in the laundromat and realized they were wives and mothers.
>- when I realized I'm older than everyone on the 49'er football team
Me, this year I realized I'm older than Quayle, Clinton *and* Gore.  Ack.
>- when I started eating Oreo cookies whole 
Ah.... I'm safe!  I haven't done that yet, and I still smoosh my icecream and
sauce together.
>
>Judy Drake


--
---Jan Yarnot, net.grandma.-- | A lifetime of smirking behind your hand
                              | is a lot better than a few seconds of
                              | triumph.
CSUS depends on my every word.              Kinsella, _Box Socials_
From: king@ssdws23.asl.dl.nec.com (Linda King)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: IV or not to IV (was Re: Last week was certainly eventful!)
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:01:37 GMT
Organization: NEC America, Inc. Irving, Texas


In article <1992Oct12.161723.21342@cadreor.cadre.com> evelyn@cadreor.cadre.com
(
Evelyn Mast) writes:
> When I was in labor (in a Kaiser Hosp.FWIW), they kept on insisting
> that I should have an IV.  It was very important to me that I go
> through labor, as much as possible, naturally and without medication.
> I refused to allow them to install an IV.  They said "you need fluids",
> and I said "I am getting plenty with the ice chips" which I sucked down
> after each contraction.  I just said "NO".
>
> Become informed and decide on what your own personal limits are.
> Everyone is different, and each birth is a different situation.  Certainly
> a hospital will have things set up for their own convenience, and
> they have their own routines.
>

I agree here that you should decide on having an IV or not based on your own
personal limits/experience.  I went into labor expecting to go 100% natural.
This meant no medication, no IV's, etc.  However once heavy labor started, I
started heavy vomiting with each contraction.  As each one grew stronger, the
more I vomitted.  This of course resulted in a loss of concentration on my
breathing exercises, focal point, etc. and caused the pain to be unbearable,
not to mention being exhausted after every contraction.  

Due to the loss of fluids caused by the vomiting, the doctor started an IV of
saline to prevent dehydration and then they used the IV to give me some 
nausia medication to try to eleviate the problem.  By this time I could not
even rest so we finally gave up and opted for an epidural.  Once the epidural
took hold, the vomiting stopped.  I think it was just my bodies way of telling
me that my baby was in the posterior position and my labor was going to be
too hard for me to handle without some sort of help. (She was delivered with
forceps after a C-section prep and episiotomy.)

I think my experience just goes to prove that no matter what you plan, once
laboring starts the circumstances can cause those plans to fly out the window.
No guilt should be felt because of this - some things are beyond our control.

Has anyone else out there had this similar experience with vomiting while in
labor?  Just curious to see if I'm alone.


-- 
Linda King                  | "Things are more like they are now
king@asl.dl.nec.com         |    than they have ever been before."     
(214) 518-3643              |               Dwight D. Eisenhower
 _    ___  _  _  __    _    |
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: fs@cs.tulane.edu (Frank Silbermann)
Subject: Social Skills
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:36:43 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-11603]: caesar


I have a niece soon to enter her teen years
who has problems getting along with other children.
For many years her did not live among other families
with children, so she has spent most of her childhood
either with adults or playing with her baby sister.
She gets along remarkably well with adults because
she is very bright and reads alot, but now that
she can be with other children her own age,
she is very unpopular.

With other children she tends to be bossy and take
a patronizing tone, perhaps because she has no
experience in a relationship between equals.
Also, she attempts to cover up insecurities
by reminding other kids of their own inadequacies
in areas where she feels herself to be more capable.

You can see why the other children tend to gang up on her,
but I don't think she realizes what she is doing.
Might there be books for children that give hints
on how to be more likeable?

Somehow, I want her to get the idea that:

A)  People feel good about you if you help them
    find ways to feel good about themselves.
    Reminding them of one's own superior achievements
    are a no-no, since, to repair their own self-esteem
    they will be tempted search for and publicize _her_ weaknesses.

B)  Nobody wants to be friends with a loser
    (except for neurotic abusive relationships),
    so neither should she put herself down.

Therefore she should:

A)  Strive to do well in as many areas as she can,
    but avoid self-evalutations of any kind,
    letting others praise her if they wish.

B)  When others do something better than her,
    let them know that she notices and is happy for them.
    This praise will be especially meaningful,
    since she will have a reputation of being
    generally capable herself.

I have in mind something along the lines of Dale Carnegie,
but I think that such adult books are beyond her,
even though she _is_ an excellent reader.

Any suggestions?

I would prefer suggestions via E-mail,
as I don't always have time to read this group.

------------------------------------------
Frank Silbermann	fs@cs.tulane.edu
Tulane University	New Orleans, Louisiana  USA
------------------------------------------
From: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: RDA's  (was: Re: Dr.Spock and the Milk Controversy)
Date: 16 Oct 1992 15:43:19 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Distribution: world
Reply-To: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Keywords: Spock, Milk
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <4837@crl.LABS.TEK.COM>, sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King) writes:
|> 
|> "Not a good thing" is relative.  In the case of certain fat-soluble vitamins,
|> it can be poisonous.  Too much Vitamin A, for instance, will build up in your
|> fatty tissues and can cause death.  Water soluble vitamins, on the other hand,
|> do not cause harmful effects.  

Hmmm, not exactly. Taking too much pyridoxine (vitamin B6) can result in 
sensory nerve damage, too much niacin permanently damages the liver, etc.

It's easier to poison yourself with the fat-soluble vitamins, as the body 
finds them hard to get rid of, but people are determined enough that they 
can even overtax the body's ability to deal with water-soluble vitamins.

The main problem, I think, is that people regards the chemicals that have nutritional value as something magical from a benificent, all-good nature, 
("It's all-natural, it must be good for you!") when actually they can have
hazardous properties like anything else when they're misused.

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
From: dudding@sallyride.crd.ge.com (Kate Dudding)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: praise vs encouragement?
Date: 9 Oct 92 12:49:27 GMT
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

What I recall, Adele Faber & Elaine Maslish? say in HOW TO TALK SO KIDS LISTEN AND
LISTEN SO KIDS TALK:

Saying "You must be very proud of yourself -- you just did X all by yourself!" is
better than saying "I'm proud of you for doing X!"  The latter has you as the
judge of your child's behavior, while the former causes the kid to think, "Yeah,
I AM proud of me."

Another technique they suggest is giving your child another label to attach to
themselves. "Mark, you turned off the TV as soon as the show was over, just like
we agreed to.  I call that being a man of your word."  While this is judging the
kid, it also is adding to their internal storage of all the good qualities about
themselves.

We also do the following:  We had been hiking for 90 minutes up a very gentle
slope, and were close to the top of the mountain (trees thining out) but naturally
couldn't tell how many minutes left to the top.  Mark (7)
said, "We'll NEVER get there.  I want to turn back."  I said, "Mark, this reminds
me of the times in Project Adventure when I had to do something that was
very hard for me.  But once I decided to do it, a step at a time, I could and did
do it, and I was so proud of myself.  I know that if you decide to take this
challenge, that you'll be able to do it."  (BTW he clearly had plenty of energy,
water and food, this was a mental problem.)  He decided to go on, and 5 minutes
later at the top (with a spectacular view), exclaimed, "Mommy, I DID IT!  I took
the challenge and I DID IT!!!" 

And he's remember this challenge idea.  Recently, we went upstairs just before
bedtime.  I was doing something in my room when Mark came running in.  "Mommy,
Mommy, I conquered my fear of the dark!  I went into my room without turning on
the light and I got my clean clothes!!" (light in hall shines into his room some)
BTW This was clearly his own challenge, we DO let him turn on the light 
when he goes into his room, actually we always do it and just assumed 
that he does too and have never discussed this.  But he usually has wanted us
upstairs and in the same room with him at night.

We use the above techniques and are pleased with the results.  As always, 
your mileage may vary.

-- 
Kate Dudding                                   dudding@crd.ge.com
GE Corporate Research and Development
Bldg. KW, Room C315
PO Box 8, Schenectady, NY 12301                (518) 387-7164
From: SASTLS@mvs.sas.com (Tamara Shaffer)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: poem
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:13:00 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.

>From: goldberg@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov (Patti Twigg)
>Message-ID: <16OCT199209335396@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov>
>
>
>Hi everyone! Seven years ago when my daughter was born, someone
>gave me a poem about how babies are only small for a long time,
>so the housework could wait, etc, because the baby needed playing
>with, cuddling, etc. My co-worker's wife just had a baby, and from
>his description, she could use the sentiments in that poem. I searched
>the disaster area we call home, but no luck. (Obviously I have taken
>the poem to be my new credo! 8-) ) Anyway, do any of you know the
>poem I am thinking of? If so, please e-mail me with the words!
>Thanks bunches!!
>                          Patti Twigg
>
 
Hi, Patti.  I *think* I have the poem you are asking about at home.
It was in the magazine Living With Preschoolers a couple months
ago.  I will bring it in on Monday and send it to you.  It is a
really pretty poem.  If anyone else is interested, I will post it
as well. 
TAMARA
mommy to Melissa (5/1/91) and ? (due 5/8/93)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: EMN002@email.mot.com (Mary Beth Northrup)
Subject: Re: The new Thermoscan ear thermometer
Organization: Motorola, Inc. Plantation, FL
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:46:55 GMT

I just bought one myself about two weeks ago. I noticed some variation
between readings and also variation from ear to ear. (For example, when
my son was lying for a while on one ear, that ear was hotter than the
other). I'm not too concerned about the variation, though, because this
way I still know that there's a fever! If anything, when the probe was not
positioned properly it read a little cooler, not hotter, so I am not
concerned about "diagnosing" a fever when there's none. Plus, I have
other indicators to go by (fussiness, lethargy, flushed face, etc.).

Overall, I think it's worth its weight in gold. I took Sean's temperature
rectally exactly ONCE, and thereafter relied on the hand-on-forehead
method. Even considering slight variation, the ear thermometer is MUCH
better. Sean doesn't mind getting his temperature taken at all now!

BTW, I paid $109.95. You may not be able to shop around for a better price,
though, there was only one pharmacy in my area that carried it! (YMMV)

|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Mary Beth Northrup                    "In the house and on the street .. |
| (mommy to Sean, 15 mo.)																	how many, many feet you meet!"   |
| EMN002@email.mot.com                                   ---  Dr. Seuss    |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
From: mark@whizbang.wariat.org (Mark W. Schumann)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Games they play at 13 
Distribution: world
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 00:33:59 GMT
Organization: The Software Sweatshop, Cleveland, Ohio USA


In article <199210052008.AA01084@tuna.wang.com>
   JUTTA.LAGE@OFFICE.WANG.COM writes:

> Subject: Games they play at 13

>Hello! My daughter (13) and her friends like to play with a Ouiga (???
>spelling) board...at least that is how it started. Now they like brewing
>potions ma de out of dried oak-leaves and water (don't ask me...) to
>condemn and curse some people they do not like and probably their
>English teacher, too. However, even though I tell Jess that these boards
>are all just made for playing she, of course, insists she has made
>contact with another kid in another world, and to top it off...last time
>when we had a power-outage a few weeks ago she completely freaked out
>and told me that this was the kid and he is mad at her and so forth....

Admittedly never having the same experience as a parent, I'm not sure
it's a good idea to allow your children to play occult games--even if
you don't happen to believe there is any real spirit world.  If she is
getting seriously freaked out by her imagination, that is probably
harmful.

Now if you do believe in spirits, then it's probably obvious to you that
playing games with them would be pretty bad karma.  Either way, if the
Oujia board is causing your daughter that kind of stress perhaps you
should consider banning it.

--
Mark W. Schumann/3111 Mapledale Avenue/Cleveland, Ohio 44109-2447 USA
Domain: mark@whizbang.wariat.org                      CIS: 73750,3527
"We're not nuts or anything; I mean *I'm* not nuts." <whizbang!judy>
Xref: sparky misc.kids:26261 soc.culture.asian.american:9649
From: dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Danielle T Wei)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: BARBIE DOES IT AGAIN!!!!
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:48:46 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Oct16.192508.1665@cs.tulane.edu> fs@cs.tulane.edu (Frank Silbermann) writes:
>
>2) When Japanese children as a whole do better than American children,
>   it's because Japanese are a genetically-superior race.

Its amazing how the Japanese are getting all the credits when most
of the math-high-scorers in the U.S. are of Chinese ancestry
Possible explanation: Japan is richer than China

Now THAT'S racist!!

NW
From: lm3a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Laura McGinnis)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Help avert a tragedy
Date: 12 Oct 92 05:50:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.UeqM_iG00iV2A1H8dj
Organization: Administrative Systems, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

On 11-Oct-92 in Help avert a tragedy         
user Douglas Fowler@po.CWRU.E writes:
>...Please, *please*, check the batteries
>in your detectors a couple times a year.  Some people say to do it on an
>anniversary or some other date, but if you only plan it once a year, then
>are too busy to recall, it may be too late.  It helps to have several -
perhaps
>one in each bedroom.

We have one smoke detector near each staircase (3 total in the house). 
On the first weekend of every month, my husband holds Mickey up so he
can test each one.  He (Mickey) likes having some control over making
such a loud noise & we're not as worried about having to deal with his
terror should they go off in the middle of the night.

Last week, there was a fire alarm at his school (*), which really scared
him.  He had been playing under the alarm when it went off & his teacher
said he just stood there & shook until she got to him (as quickly as she
could with 2 other kids clinging to her in tears).  Once he could put
his hand on her leg (since her hands were full), he was OK.  The do have
regularly scheduled fire drills once/month, but he's only been there for
2 mths, so it was very new & scary for him.  When we got home that
night, we tested all the alarms in the house again, just to show him
what all the noise was about.  He has also learned to cover his ears;
hopefully he'll remember all this next time the alarms go off.

Laura

(*) His school is in the basement of one of the dorms here at the
University, so you can imagine how often the alarms must go off.  We're
figuring on once/month in addition to the regularly scheduled drill.
From: lmn00@cd.amdahl.com (Linda Newell)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Cramps after childbirth
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:26:08 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Oct8.180048.1506@ast.saic.com>, hyler@jaana.ast.saic.com
(Buffy Hyler) writes:

>In my case I went from cramps that required serious pain medication to
>get through to hardly even noticing that my period had started.
>According to my GP prior to getting pregnant, what pregnancy will do is
>slightly rearrange the internal locations of the assorted organs and
>for some women this is all that is needed to get rid of cramps.  I
>suspect highly that the opposite could be true: rearranging things in
>such a way to cause cramps.  I remember when I first met this GP to get
>more pain medication and one of the first things he asked me was
>when/if I planned to get pregnant since that is one possible
>"solution".
>
I have heard that pregnancy is one of the possible cures for (geez
I forgot the name of it) that condition where the menstrual tissue
gets outside of the uterus and sticks to other abdominal organs.  
Birth control pills are another "cure".
Linda