HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: * jesus .... *
Date: 4 Oct 92 10:48:04 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL



(Stan Krieger) writes:


>       Jews don't believe that Yeshua ben Yosef was the Messiah ....
The name of that person was     yeshu    not yeshua .
 Hillel Markowitz  corrected one who tried selling us  his jesus under
the name   yeshua:

(Hillel Markowitz ):
This is incorrect.  The original spelling in the talmud (that the
Xians censored out) is Yud shin Vav.  It should be pointed out that
this term was used as a generic term as the references appear to be
about different people.  An example is the use of "Acher" for Rabbi
Elisha ben Avuya who became an apostate.  The apostate used the Alainu
to cause trouble with the gematriah because this was known.  The
King James and early English translations of jesu or jeshu and the Greek
used jesus because the j was there equivalent in a name for the Yud
and masculine names ended with "s".

The modern day cults of the messy-antics have made the above change
to make there claim that he was the mashiac and is divine.  Had
the name yeshua been recognized by anyone beforehand the name would have
been translated as Joshua.

____________________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz    |  Said the fox to the fish, join me ashore  |
| H_Markowitz@att.com |  So too is it with the Jews and the TORAH  |
|_____________________|____________________________________________|
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: * Jesus Christ? *
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:20:16 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

>   How does Jesus of Nazareth fail to be the messiah?

I'd say the burden of proof is most certainly on the other foot, my 
friend.

Todd
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Cross-dressing
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:10:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.121732.22547@tudorct.com> shdan@tudorct.com (Dan Shimoff) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.164717.10414@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>>In article <FAIGIN.92Oct2074011@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>>culture and location-specific.  While a kilt may be acceptable men's
>>attire in Scottland (or at rennaisance faires), it certainly is not so
>>on the streets of New York.
>>
>>Same for blue jeans.  Only very recently has any form of slacks or
>>pants been acceptible women's attire.  To this date, many religious
>>(or simply traditional) families (non-Jewish ones, too) don't consider
>>pants a man's garment.
>>
>so if men can't wear skirts (kilts) and religious (or simply traditional)
>families don;t consider pants a man`s garment, what's a man to do?  
>
>Or did I read this wrong?

A kappata, son, a kappata.

>
>-- 
>Dan Shimoff           
>Phone: (212) 602-6798  
>Address: shdan@tudor.com
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:06:52 GMT

rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
>stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>>The obligation to God is clear; Jews do NOT marry non-Jews, period.

>Obligations to god are a matter of one's personal taste.

This is a ridiculous statement.  Obligations that are a matter of
personal taste are not obligations.  Now if you're saying that we
have no obligations to G-d, that's a different discussion.

>If the parents
>don't like it, tough on them; personal decisions about one's life are
>for that person to make, and it's easiest for all concerned if the
>parents just accept it.  If not, it's their problem.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  It depends what's at stake, and how
much the concerned "outsiders" really understand.  The shame is
when the parents wait until it's too late to express their views,
and then have not provided a foundation to build upon.  What can
one expect after neglecting to nurture a Jewish life in a child,
raising him/her in a fully assimilated world, then asking him/her
to reject that very culture and her peers within it?

I assume here that the vast majority of such cases occur in
non-observant homes, though I have no handy statistics.

>As for the mourning ritual:  any parent who'd go that far to lay a guilt
>trip on someone's acting rather wickedly him/herself.

Pretty quick to rush to judgment over the actions of the parents, eh?

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: How to get rid of anti-Polish blabs? (Re: Nazi camps)
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 06:59:31 GMT

warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:

>In <1992Sep21.110120.3568@walter.cray.com> aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur) writes:

>    A ja z kolei zaczynam wierzyc, ze jesli mamy do czynienia z ludzmi,
>    ktorzy uwazaja, ze tylko oni powinni byc pod ochrona i tylko im
>    sie cos nalezy a reszta sie nie liczy i innymi
>    mozna pomiatac jak sie chce, to faktycznie mamy do czynienia
>    z nadludzmi. Taki to juz dziwny jest ten swiat.

>Aineni mevin polanit, v'gam rov korei kvutzat-chadashot zu ainam
>mevinim, lachen ani mevakesh shemaamarim b'sefah zu lo yofiu b'scj.
 
     Too bad Warren, you don't know what you missed .....
     Yaaqov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: abilenko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Arkady Bilenko)
Subject: Sinead O'Connor on SNL
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:32:31 GMT

	Dear netters, 
If any of you were as geeky as I to watch SNL on Sat, Oct 3, I was wondering
whether anyone else but me noticed the "Star of David" pendant on Sinead 
O'Connor.  If so, what could it mean?  I am aware that that particular Jewish
symbol became such only sometime last century, so perhaps, some Gaelic or Irish
ethnic groups would claim it as their own.  Anyway, just random thoughts and 
questions.
	Arkady (abilenko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:02:25 EDT
From: <BFANTLE@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject:    meaning of Yom Kippur

My non-Jewish girlfriend asked me a question about Yom Kippur and being a non-k
nowledgeableJew I was unclear how to answer.  On Yom Kippur are Jews supposed
to ask for forgiveness?  If so;to God or the person they sinned against?  Or is
 an apologyacceptable? and once again to whom?

Barry..

thanks in advance
From: uril@yang.earlham.edu (Uri J. Lessing)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this
Date: 3 Oct 92 19:52:30 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

In article <RLK.92Oct2173353@underprize.think.com>,
 rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:

> 2)  I don't really know how to say this without *really* offending
> someone, but Judaism should be able to survive even if some people do
> intermarry.

There is one problem that I don't think has been looked at.  We have 
talked a lot about the survival of Judaism; but even if intermarraige did 
not affect the survival of Judiasm, there is a question of the individual 
child's role confusion.

It is very difficult for a child growing up, to see two (or more) distinct 
religious ideas.  Of the friends I have who are products of mixed 
marraiges, most ended up athiests or "culturaly Jewish" because they do 
not have any solid ideas on Religion.  For some people, this may be 
acceptable, for others catastrophic.

I am still wrestling with this serious question (as I believe many Jews 
do), but I know one thing; I love being a Jew and I love being a member of 
the Jewish community.  I hope that when I have children, they too shall 
find joy and love in being a Jew.
-- 

Uri J. Lessing |  Earlham College |  Richmond, Indiana
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 07:00:44 GMT

pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu writes:

>  I believe that the same is true about Israel.  I can live there
>for ages and it won't make me a Jew.

    How hard and how long have you tried ? Some say the air is special there.

>                                      Pawel Penczek
    Yaaqov Goldberg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff)
Subject: Re: Using vacation days for the Jewish Holidays
Reply-To: ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff)
Organization: Technion IIT, Haifa Israel
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 06:49:39 GMT


In article <FAIGIN.92Sep30091934@soldan.aero.org>, faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
|>
|>> What do Reform Jews do when 1 Tishri is on Shabbat, and the sounding
|>> of the Shofar is not permitted?
|>
|>Recall that Reform allows the use of electricity, etc. on Shabbat. As I
|>recall, when Rosh Hashana falls on Shabbat, the Shofar is sounded on Shabbat.
|>
1) What is the connection between "use of electricity" and the sounding of the
Shofar on Shabbat? I would hate to think that the use of the shofar is somehow
related to the use of electricity, i.e. an electric shofar?

2) What is and is not 'allowed by Reform' on Shabbat? Does Reform put any kind
of limit on Shabbat observance at all?
--
________________________________________________________________________
|            Ben Pashkoff                 BEN@VMSA.TECHNION.AC.IL      |
|                                                                      |
| "There is nothing better for the body than silence." Pirke Avot 1:17 |
|______________________________________________________________________|
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Cross-dressing
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:47:17 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <FAIGIN.92Oct2074011@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>
>Be careful with things that are "clearly" so. We have no explicit statement of
>what is "mens" and "womens" clothing; furthermore, there are clothes that are
>clearly dual purpose (such as blue-jeans). There are certain objects, such as
>apropriately designed undergarments, that are gender-specific (men do not
>likely need brassires; women are unlikely to use jockstraps), but even items
>like skirts are not "women-only" (consider the Scottish kilt), and a blouse is
>just another name for a shirt (except the buttons are on the other side). 

I believe that the definitions of "men's" and "women's" clothing is
culture and location-specific.  While a kilt may be acceptable men's
attire in Scottland (or at rennaisance faires), it certainly is not so
on the streets of New York.

Same for blue jeans.  Only very recently has any form of slacks or
pants been acceptible women's attire.  To this date, many religious
(or simply traditional) families (non-Jewish ones, too) don't consider
pants a man's garment.


-- 
David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel)
Subject: Re: Tzom Gedalia
Reply-To: rmt51@cas.org
Organization: S.W.I.G.
Distribution: soc.culture.jewish
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:42:55 GMT

My late father-in-law had four reasons not to fast on Tsom Gedalyah:
	1)  he would have died anyway;
	2)  fasting won't bring him back;
	3)  if I died, Gedalya wouldn't have fasted for me;
	4)  if I don't fast on Tisha B'Av, why should I fast on Tsom Gedalya?
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
Have an easy fast.  G'mar khatima tova.
-- 
Rick Turkel           (___  ____ _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _  _ _  ___
(rmt51@cas.org)           )    |  |  \  )  |/ \     |    |   |  \_)    |
(rmt51@cas.bitnet)       /     | _| __)/   | __)    | ___|_  | _( \    |
			Ein navi be`iro.            |

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lhsux@swingset.bae.bellcore.com (Lorne Schachter)
Subject: Re: Halacha of sex change
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 17:04:25 GMT

In article <1apnsfINNrb9@agate.berkeley.edu>, lmk2@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
|> In article <1992Oct4.224748.18743@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> boaz@lcs.mit.edu writes:
|> >I heard of (a real case) a Jewish gal that converted into a lad (you know:
|> >hormones, some cut-and-paste job ...) and is engaged (as a man) to another
|> >woman.
|> >  I wondered about the Halachaic side of this; for example, what would a
|> >Rabbi say if the above two would now ask to become married ?
|> >
|> >-- Boaz
|> 
|> Yes, I discussed this matter with some ultra-orthodox friends of mine, and
|> they said that it is a discussed-matter.  It seems that the prevailing 
|> opinion is that, although Halacha would not encourage such a change (even
|> perhaps forbid it), that once the person has become whatever sex that
|> he/she should be required to fulfill the requirements of that sex (not
|> their previous one).  I would think that the Rabbi would marry them.
|> 
|> Leslie
|> 
Actually, probably not.	 The (new) man is considered a Saris (eunuch) since
his sexual organs are not functional for reproduction and therefore, if the
rabbi knew, would not be allowed to marry a Jewish woman.  This has been
discussed in the Daf Yomi over the past several weeks.

					Lorne
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Ezekiel
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:12:36 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

In article <1992Oct06.103511.4188@watson.ibm.com> jec@zurich.ibm.com (Jean Cherbonnier) writes:
>There is in the Old Testament, in the Ezekiel prophecy I beleive, a fantastic
>description, and I would like to know about an interpretation. Ezekiel describes
>the arrival of something very bright and illuminated. From this object, several
>creatures get on the ground. They look like human beings, but they fly, and
>they were a sort of helmet.
>It amazes me because the description is extremely detailed and sounds like the
>arriving of a space ship carrying extraterrestrial creatures...
>If someone has an explanation, I would be very happy to read it.
>
>Thanks.
>
>J.Cherbonnier
>jec@zurich.ibm.com


We have it by tradition that the first Chapter in Ezekiel is
*not* to be interpreted literally. You are dealing with
super-natural  concepts being described in terms of human language.
Obviously, languages are not "designed" to handle such concepts.

If I may, I would like to suggest a *possible*, but crude analogy:
Imagine an ancient Egyptian trying to describe a PC. Remember that
modern words (e.g. computer, screen, monitor, television, etc. etc. etc.)
can not be used. Only words that (probably) existed in ancient Egyptian
civilization would be acceptable. 

I submit to you that, even if you could describe it, your description
would be very unclear except to someone who was familiar with computers.
Perhaps someone might want to try this as an excercize :-)

Sincerely,
Hayim Hendeles
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Reply-To: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Organization: SUNYA School of Public Health, Albany, NY
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 13:47:42 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.082417.23490@dxcern.cern.ch>, michal@vsnmc1.cern.ch (Michal Szleper) writes:
>stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>
[...]
>But Poland is a very uniform country of a single nationality.
>That's why it is hard to *become* a Pole.  And this goes not only
>for Jews.
>
>+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
>|  My opinions are my opinions.  But facts are those of everyone.   |
>+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
>|    Michal~ Szleper             |    "All you need is love, love,  |
>|    (michal@vsnmc1.cern.ch)     |     Love is all you need..."     |
>+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
>

  I believe that the same is true about Israel.  I can live there
for ages and it won't make me a Jew.

                                      Pawel Penczek
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:34:02 GMT
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County

In article <1992Oct6.131051.23312@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.123111.23779@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>>Even if completely
>>man-made, G-d helps those who help themselves.... (to borrow a
>>phrase).
>>--
>
>It did not work for at least 6 million Jews. 
>Or, may be, they did not help themselves?
>

It is only a few hours before Yom Kippur, a day in which all Jews
stand together before G-d, as individuals and as members of the
Jewish community, and I stare at your comment.  I do not know how
to start a reply, yet I cannot let your statement remain unanswered.

Your statement is appallingly insensitive, and wilfully ignorant.
It is inexcusably cruel, and reflects shocking poor taste.  To reduce
the Holocaust to a quick one-liner suggests your lack of understanding
of what the Holocaust means -- to Jews and to the entire world, as a
theological issue, as a philosophical challenge, as a personal tragedy
(for many of us), and as a calamity for the Jewish people at large.



-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: friedenb@gypsum.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Engineering School in Israel
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:08:10 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@gypsum.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University


As a part of my ongoing quest to make Graduate School in Israel
my next (and probably final) step towards aliyah, I am 
in need of information:


Where can one get a Masters in Mechanical Engineering (more
specifically Mechanics of Deformable Solids) in Israel?:

Technion, Tel Aviv U., Ben Gurion (I am aware of).

Does Weitzman Institute or Bar Ilan (or anywhere else that I
missed) have such a program?

How is Ben Gurion's Mechanical Engineering department?

I am considering Ben Gurion as my 2nd choice to the Technion.
(I am rapidly approaching the reality that I may not get in to
the Technion, and should consider other options).

If someone from Ben Gurion could send me mail, I would like to
ask a few general questions about the school.  I would like to 
visit there during my upcoming visit (December 22-January 10)
to Israel.

Thanks in advance,

Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Religious Question
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:34:58 GMT
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In: <BvEwr6.1Lt@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) wrote:

>In article <1992Sep30.175403.6207@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
>
>>Is Macabbees included in the New Testament?
>
>My Vulgate lists 1 and 2 Machabaeorum as the last two books of the (Roman)
>Old Testament.  Maccabees is not listed in my Authorised Version (King James)
>as canonical.
>
>>I think Maimonides (who was living under Islam at this point)
>>said nice things about Islam and bad things about Christianity.
>
>The way I've heard it, the Maimonides considered Christianity to be
>idolatrous.  Nachmanides did not.  The difference is not, I believe,
>on the issue of images, but as to whether trinitarianism and the
>veneration of saints are polytheistic.  I am harking back to lectures
 ====================
>in my dim past, though, so look it up for yourself.

I wonder if these lectures in the  dim past included the story on what
Rabbi Schach replied when asked which religion was closest to Judaism.
He said "Habbad". :-)

>Aryk Nusbacher

 Michael Shimshoni

P.S.  I hope  that no one will  dare to flame me for  the above during
the "ten days of tshuva"!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: Re: * Jesus Christ? *
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 15:24:44 +0200

In: <9210021604.AA01212@hrt213.brooks.af.mil.brooks.af.mil>
tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller) said in reply:

>On Fri, 2 Oct 1992 07:05:24 GMT, JHIATT@130.187.170.178 (JOHN HIATT) said:
>
> J>   How does Jesus of Nazareth fail to be the messiah?
>
>       I think that dying without leaving a son behind kind of
>disqualifies him.  The Messiah will be, above all, a man-- with a wife
>and kids, too (sooner or later).

These news must upset the Lubavicher  Hassidim, or do the believe that
the Rebbe, even  living till he is  120 years old, is  going to repeat
the trick of Avraham Avinu?

Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Jews and politics
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:40:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.190408.26406@starbase.trincoll.edu>
nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller) writes:

>Maybe I was wrong.  SS's questions (that unfortunately never
>got asked) were not what the ones I would have asked, but
>they do open a window on a discussion that is amazingly
>absent on scj: Jews and politics.  Who would have thought
>that so many American Jews would leave the liberal/socialist
>politics of their parents and grandparents for Ronald Reagan
>or dogmatic libertarianism, and who would have thought that
>just as many would become apolitical?  Right-wing Jews? 
>Politically apathetic Jews?  Talk about assimilation.

I'd say that Jews that put Judaism at the center of their basis for
political affiliation are neither far left nor far right in the American
political spectrum.  Apathetic is more likely than knee-jerk liberal or
conservative (note small 'c'; I'm not refering to the Conservative
movement).

>So I'm glad the questions were asked and I hope we can
>discuss them reasonably.  As far as I'm concerned (and I
>hope we can leave ML out of this) Tikkun is one of the most
>valuable magazines in America today--for Jews in particular.
>It is also totally different in tone from Jewish left-wing
>periodicals of earlier generations in that it goes to Jewish
>tradition for its values.  In that sense it is a far more
>Jewish magazine than Commentary;

On the basis of Lerner's editorial on homosexuality that was posted
here about two months ago, and one the basis of other Tikkun articles
I've subjected myself to reading, I would not claim Tikkun, or Lerner,
"goes to Jewish tradition for its values."  Rather, it looks to change
Jewish values to accomodate its own far-left, hardly Jewish, "values."
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton