HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Power required to stretch opposing muscles.
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:04:00 +0000



Ok folks, here's an interesting problem, I wonder if you can help?


I was having a debate with a fellow karateka last week. He is EXTREMELY
supply and has no trouble in lifting and holding his leg up high to the
side (in a side thrust kick position). In fact he finds it so easy that
he has absolutely no comprehension of how difficult it is for us "stiffies"
to hold the same position.


My argument goes like this...
If you are supple enough you can raise your leg to the side and the
only force you have to overcome is gravity. If you are not supple the
groin muscle tends to pull the leg downward. So you are not only required
to oppose gravity but also the downward force of the muscle. It may be
that you can adjust the position of your hips to allow the muscle to
stretch a little further, but I don't think that really counts for much.


Now the really question is this how much force does the groin muscle 
generate i.e. How much weight would I have to tie to my friends foot
to equate to the difficulty I experience. I says he can hold the position
happily with a 10kg weight hanging on the foot.


Q. Does Hooks Law apply in relaxed muscle? 
   (Please somebody remind me of the exact equation in action I can't for
   the life of me remember it!)
   i.e. how does the force vary with the amount of stretch.
   
Q. What's the best way to calculate the moment of the force given that the
   muscles will be working near the fulcrum of movement as opposed the the
   weights working at the end of the leg.
   
Q. What's the best way to measure the forces. I'm going to try with a
   set of bathroom scales over the weekend. The basic method will be to
   isolate as far as possible the working muscle by lying flat on my back.
   Have someone push one of my legs out to the side by using the scales.
   Take measurements at various angles upto the maximum I can take.


All Comments most welcome.


Bill Burgar.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ftit@woundedknee.engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman)
Subject: Re: The art of head-butting!
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 14:03:12 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: ftit@woundedknee.engin.umich.edu


In article <1eb1rdINN38l@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
|In article <Bxu4FE.637@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, shulick@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
|>
|>insane.. :)  I just would like to know how to do it correctly, as a
|>headbutt in a close, locked battle is a GOOD move.  Thanks.
|
|
|well, keep doing it for a while. experiment with different angles, striking
|areas, etc. let us know how things turn out.
|
|-mukund

Duh, uh, I dun dat.  Dun it good, too.  Um, [drool] duh, whawazI gonna'
say?  I tink I gotta go to duh bathroom.

Ah yes -- I thought studying the martial arts was supposed to be good
for your health!

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ftit@engin.umich.edu   |   "... a stainless steel rat in the       |
|    (Sergej Roytman)     |  ferroconcrete wainscoting of Internet"   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Say no to four-line .sigs.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fwong@bnr.ca (Frank Wong)
Subject: Re: THE MASTER
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:10:33 GMT

In article <farant.27j8@terapin.com> farant@terapin.com (Faran Thomason) writes:
>HAs anyone out there seen Tsui Hark's film The Master--with Jet Li ?? Ist any
>good ?? The few bit's I have seen seem out of place for a Hark film.


I've seen "The Master" , also known as "Lung Hang Tin Ha" in cantonese,
(Dragon Walks Everywhere)

It's not too bad. Story is basically ; Jet Li comes to U.S. to visit
his Sifu, has to battle bad white guy who has beat up Sifu and destroyed
his herb shop (Bo Chi Lam). The fight scenes are o.k. , but there is
no comparison to Once Upon A Time In China : Wong Fei Hong 1 & 2.

Anybody out there know what Jet's next movie is ?


Frank

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Frank Wong                  ** * * * * *    e-mail: fwong@bnr.ca
 Mechanical Engineer
 Bell Northern Research
 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
                            
 Standard disclaimers... - BNR does not own or share my opinion!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: THE MASTER
Organization: just me
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 13:24:18 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts

In article <Bxv448.JFM@dcs.ed.ac.uk> la@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Lewis Alderton) writes:
>In article <farant.27j8@terapin.com>, farant@terapin.com (Faran Thomason) writes:
>> HAs anyone out there seen Tsui Hark's film The Master--with Jet Li ?? Ist any
>> good ?? The few bit's I have seen seem out of place for a Hark film.
>
>No , but I watched the Lee Van Cleef series called THE MASTER - and that
>'proves' that Ninja stil exist!!

For your increased pleasure and (intellectual) stimulation, a number of
episodes from "The Master" series can be viewed on Mystery Science Theatre
3000.  

	David Pipes

"We gather together to watch cheesy movies..."


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gaff@sr.com (Jon Gaff)
Subject: Forms: some observations.
Reply-To: gaff@srhqla.sr.com (Jon Gaff)
Organization: Silent Radio, Los Angeles
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 04:53:50 GMT

I am a student (as longtime netters are aware) of the Shaolin system
taught by Sin Kwang The via the Soards and their Chinese Shaolin Ctr.
organization... One of the things that I have found enlightening about
the sequence of forms tught starting from the beginning level to the
brown belt level (where I'm at now) is that each form teaches concepts
and skills that you will need to grasp before you can successfully 
master/understand the next form in the series.  An example of this
in the weapons forms area would be that we learn nunchaku as a
prelude to learning short stick (a 3-ft approx. rattan stick)
which is a prelude for sword in brown belt.  The nunchaku teach
you how to focus your concentration and kinetic movement skills
while to keep from knocking yourself out.  But the key concept in
nunchaku is to think of the two separated lengths of the weapon 
as really one piece and use the resulting kinetic energy
accordingly instead of only thinking of the weapon as something
you spin around to look flashy and intimidating.  Mastering
the "connectedness" between the two sections of the nunchaku
is a sensible lead in to the more sword-like kinetic motions
that underlie mastery of the short rattan stick as a weapon.
The short stick teaches you how to move the stick in sync
with the movement of your body mass and to then be able to
deliver that mass/power via the striking edge or end of the
staff.  All the circles and cross-swing motions in short
stick lead in to the kinetic principles behind using a blade.

In the empty hand forms we learn, each form focuses on a
particular aspect of power delivery.  The tiger linkage form
we learn in yellow belt teaches tight, circular, powerful
strikes and intense forward movement.  Yer basic tigerish
qualities.  The next form (usually) after that is a very
relaxed bird form that teaches the concepts of delivering
relaxed power via expansion and contraction and rising and
sinking.  A real eye-opener because you only "get it" by
relaxing as much as possible, then learning where and just
how to tense up as you pull in to deliver the focus of the
power generated from expanding/relaxing/raising up.

All in all, I've been impressed by the structure and method
behind the series of forms taught.  Each one creates the
mental/physical foundation upon which the next piece of
material can rest the most securely. and so on...

Gongfu = time & effort (effort & time, actually, but anyway...)


-- 
Jon Gaff / SilentRadio head tech support bozo.
From: jbaker@husc8.harvard.edu (James Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Aikido in Cambridge/Boston
Date: 24 Nov 92 05:55:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc8.JBAKER.92Nov23215500
Distribution: rec
Organization: Harvard Arts and Sciences Computer Services, Cambridge, MA


What are my options in training in Aikido in the Cambridge area?  I
would like to join a class that teaches soft Aikido (rolls, not break
falls), boken and jo, is suitable for a novice, and does not have a
heavy commitment in time (5+ hours/week) or money.

-- Jim

jbaker@husc.harvard.edu (forwarded to ...)
jimb@kenan.com
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate Bullshit
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:34:25 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <BxsE18.2t8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>In article <74315@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>
>>I imagine that we could expect
>>a very good fighter to keep most of his conditioning as he
>>grows older, unless he sustains permanent injuries, and I would
>>certainly expect him to get better at the more mental aspects
>>of fighting, such as timing, strategy, tactics, and so on.
>
>Right, but while they may have a great idea of what to do, their
>physical strength will be less (although they will be stronger than
>their contemporaries) and hence their reaction time will also be
>slower.  Their bones will be more brittle, and their body fat
>percentage will tend to be higher (although this latter can
>be avoided).  

Welll...Okay, one of the places I was reading about aging
and exercise was Self magazine. (I know, why was I reading Self?
Well, becasue it had this article in it.) It claims that the
bone brittleness problem is not nearly no bad in people
who keep up an exercise regimen. They do recommend that
running not be part of the regular workout as you get
older, because it wears the joints too much. They also
said body fat increases, but, percentage-wise, the change
is very small in an active person.

>Another point to remember is that a lot of older martial artists
>are not full-time professionals.  One of my instructors was a 
>great sparring instructor and taught me a lot.  But he had a job,
>and he had a wive and kids, and he couldn't spend as much time
>training.  Besides that, his reaction time was going down and I
>was starting to get in on him, which discouraged him even more, so
>now he just works on conditioning for himself, rather than sparring.

Well, I have a couple of things to say about this. One is that
I think that you can eventually learn to get in on anybody,
no matter how good they are, as long as you are a dedicated
student who pays attention to tactics. Another is that more
practice time is going to translate into more progress. The
last thing is that those tactical advantages conferred by
experience are awfully important. It doesn't matter how much
faster you are if the other guy knows how to consistently
take a position that eliminates the advantage of speed.

I imagine we're bound to end up splitting hairs, if we aren't
already, so I'll concede that age is eventually going to erode
a fighter's effectiveness. I do think, though, that the
combination of the effects of exercise in mitigating the effect
of aging and experience in improving a fighter's strategy and
tactics can keep a fighter formidable quite late in life.
From: khc2674@zeus.tamu.edu (Bruce as my Shepherd)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing vs Martian Arts
Date: 23 Nov 1992 10:50 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu
Summary: ^^^^^^^
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Nov20.142811.7558@relay.nswc.navy.mil>, snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil writes...

	I say the Martian wins every time. He just turns invisible and sneaks
	behind the poor boxer.


Kuo Hau Chang  :)               Praying for Mantis                (:
Texas A&M      :)   7-star,8-step,Taiji,Tantui,Lu-Han,Flat Plate  (:
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Snorthc Ali)
Subject: Re: Boxing vs Martian Arts
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center	
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:28:11 GMT

>I use to think that Tae Kwon Do was the ultimate self protection
Oh it is!

>but after watching boxing such as Mike Tyson Razor Ruddock
Well it isn't fair to have to fight guys with four names

>I cam to a conclusion
Did that pull your spinal column up and down?

OK, enough smarty pants stuff:
>which is more superior martial arts or boxing ?

I am still part of the minority that classifies boxing as a
martial art and thinks every serious MA must train as a boxer at
some point in their career.

>And Why?
So you learn to slip punches, and jab, and keep your shoulder
in, and keep your hands up, and learn to close, and learn to
bob and weave (without the benefit of massive doses of alchohol)
and learn to punch without flexing your elbows.
From: aaron@cse.ucsc.edu (Aaron Emigh)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:47:21 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz (CE/CIS Boards)
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Nov20.150654.20554@srg.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
[...]
>	But Bruce does have The King of Rock and Roll beat on one level: I
>guess there may be more Bruce Lee impersonators than Elvis impersonators.

No way!  Besides, the _real_ question is: who would win, the Bruce Lee
impersonators or the Elvis impersonators, if they fought under sambo
rules?

>	Stephen Chan
>	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net

Aaron Emigh
aaron@iit.com
aaron@cse.ucsc.edu
From: dcasson@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Dan Casson)
Subject: Re: Question: fumikomi (foot-stamping)
Followup-To: dcasson@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:43:04 GMT

Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>    As my old Karate/Kenjutsu sensei taught it, if you are moving forward to
>attack, what happens is you accelerate your body forward, and then,
>just before you strike, you plant your lead foot into the ground -
>this halts the motion of your body and torso, but your sword {or fist}
>keeps moving.

I train just the opposite, my hand will strike the opponent just before
my foot hits the ground.  When doing a lead jab for instance, the
hand starts in motion towards the target first then the feet. This will
cut down on telegraphing the punch.  With the hand stiking just before
the front foot plants into the ground no power is being lost or
disapated into the ground.


-- 
===========================================================================
Dan Casson			Phone: (818) 393-1284
Jet Propulsion Laboratory	Internet: dcasson@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov	
4800 Oak Grove Drive		
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: Humor, at NH tournament
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:29:52 GMT

In article <BxtMy9.87n@max.physics.sunysb.edu> gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.105548.7064@cbnews.cb.att.com> yy@cbnews.cb.att.com (alan.j.lapenn) writes:
>>
>>I was at the Northern Shaolin Karate Assn. tournament  in Concord, NH this 
>                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>	Pardon me, guys, but how one can glue Shaolin to Karate?
> From all my knowledge about MA history I can only think about this as
> of a funny commercial name. Any experts out there?

Hmm, maybe he meant "shorin ryu karate" or "shorinji kempo" or
THE DEADLY.......
"North American Tai Shaolin Tae Kwan Kung Fu Karate Jutsu Pizza Do with
Chi, pepperoni, mushrooms and of course with garlic"
Just being able to say this fast 5 times gets you an automatic
"black belt" and your breath registered as a lethal weapon.


<winey voice on>  That'll be 30 minutes or it free!
From: rob@austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Iron Palm Training
Date: 20 Nov 92 23:34:28 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin
Originator: rob@woodyw.austin.ibm.com


> My only reference on this topic ("Iron Palm in 100 Days", by Lee Ying-arng;
> a most quaint little book) also goes into the necessities of meditation
> and chi cultivation (among other odds and ends). Deviation from the proper
> training can result in harmful side effects, and the book has the 
> obligatory Story Of Someone Who Did It Wrong, and suffered ill health as
> a result.

Does anyone have the name of the publisher or the ISBN number for this book.
Or even better, where I can order it from.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Question: fumikomi (foot-stamping)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:43:03 GMT
Organization: University of Utah

	The first time I was exposed to real top-class fighters in
Karate, I noticed that they did something that I did not do: They
stamped their feet with each technique.  Furthermore, they stamped
their feet in precise timing with their blows.

	Years later, when I began to study Kendo, I found that
everybody stamped their feet.  The sound of their right foot hitting
the floor was also simultaneous with the sound of their shinai hitting
the target.  The result was a loud, resounding BAM! when they struck.
The stamping action somehow added to the force of the blow.

	Over time, I have polished my own fumikomi, and I think I
finally have gained some understanding of the effect.  This has led me
to an uncomfortable discovery: either my understanding of fumikomi is
flawed, or most people time the stamping action improperly.

	In my understanding, the stamping action is not done for its
own end; it is simply a consequence of catching yourself from falling.
As you launch yourself forward and shift your center of gravity, you
immediately begin to fall at 9.8 meters per second squared.  Because
your front foot is off the ground reaching forward, you simply free
fall until your right foot lands with a stamping action, breaking your
fall.

	In order to use the acceleration due to gravity to help power
your blow, you must strike before you break your fall and dissipate
the energy of falling.  More specifically, you must break your fall by
hitting your opponent with your weapon, not by stamping your foot.  At
the instant of contact, all your weight is coming down on your
opponent (via your weapon), instead of coming down on your front foot.

	So here is the dilemma: to use gravity properly, shouldn't you
make contact BEFORE your foot hits the ground, and breaks your fall?
As I have fine-tuned my timing, I have indeed found that, instead of
hearing one single BAM! of my foot and my sword, I hear kaBAM!, where
the "ka" is the sound of my sword hitting the target, and the BAM is
the sound of my foot.  I truly feel my strongest when I achieve this
timing.

	So here is the question: Am I deluded in thinking that I
understand fumikomi?  Or are others mistaken in timing their
foot-stamp and sword strike simultaneously?

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jswartz@mbunix.mitre.org (Swartz)
Subject: Re: The art of head-butting!
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:19:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.170045@ee.egr.duke.edu> wrankin@ee.egr.duke.edu (William T. Rankin) writes:
>
>
>Well, heavy personal opinion, but if you *really* wanna know which part
>of your head to hit something/body with, talk to a decent soccer (football
>for the UK contingent) player.
>
>
>they'll know.  believe me.
>
>-bill

I once saw a soccer game where two players got into an argurment.  One of
the players went right up to the other player and head-butted him in the
face (as if he was going to "head" a soccer ball).  The receiver of the 
head-butt got his nose broken and was a bloody mess.

Contrary to what a previous poster said, head-butting can be very effective
in an in-close situation, especially if your arms are tied up.  A headbutt
delivered in a soccer-style motion (using the upper forehead) will bust up
a persons face pretty good, with little risk to the headbutter (except maybe
if you headbutt too low and cut your forehead on the other guys teeth --
ouch!).

John

-- 
--JOHN A. SWARTZ---The MITRE Corporation---Bedford, Massachusetts--
   "Just call me Desdinova - I'm sure to be the lucky one
   when destiny assigns wisdom - known to me, this starry wisdom . . .
   I am the one you warned me of"                     Blue Oyster Cult
From: krause@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Mike Krause)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:06:23 GMT
Subject: Eskrima Seminar Dec 12
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

Eskrima Seminar
Saturday Dec 12  10AM-3PM
Doce Pares -  Eskrima  - Pangamot

This seminar will cover the history of Eskrima, training on the double
and single olisi (sticks) and as the Grandmaster's own style and empty-
hand fighting, joint-locks, and disarms called "Pangamot".  This is his
second level of Doce Pares system.


Location:  Tiger Eye Claw Center 
	   903 N. 8th St.
	   San Jose CA 95112
	   (408)-998-3345

Cost: $45.00
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gaff@sr.com (Jon Gaff)
Subject: Bruce Lee vs. Elvis... a Heavenly match-up!
Reply-To: gaff@srhqla.sr.com (Jon Gaff)
Organization: Silent Radio, Los Angeles
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 04:29:56 GMT

GET YER TICKETS NOW!

(Couldn't resist, folx... You can blame Stephen Chan for inspiring me! :-))
I mean, hey... they WERE both martial artists, right?  So, like, who do
you think would win, huh?  My money's on the fat guy with the sidebirns --
he's got all that padding PLUS all the pain killers to numb him out.

-- 
Jon Gaff / SilentRadio head tech support bozo.