From: gtao@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Greg )
Subject: Lighten Up Francis 
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:44:00 GMT

billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith) writes:


>And I think you are an ass too.  The difference is that I've got a reason,
>right here.  You lump all michigan fans together.  Do you do that with all
>other groups too?  Are all blacks the same?

Did I ever call you an ass?  No.
That's one of the problems I have with "you people".  The responses I
have been getting from Michigan fans have been, for the most part, belligerant
and rude. I welcome any arguements, but please refrain from personal attacks 
against me.  Kinda tells you something about the individuals who are guilty
of this.


>I never built up Elvis reputation, I simply stated the facts about his rating
>last year since you were wrong in your posting. 

Well, if you misunderstood what I said, then I apologize.  I have been 
skimming this group for a while, and I notice that you are a frequent
poster, so you should be well-aware that I am not a frequent poster to
this group.  I have been sitting quietly on the sidelines listening to
plenty of relentless raving about Michigan and Elvis Grbac.  My original
post was just a great opportunity to get my $0.02 in.  That's It.


>Go back and look at the stats.  FSU beat Michigan pretty soundly on the score
>board.  But they did not shut down Elvis.  Furthermore, his biggest problem
>in that game was two td interceptions, where the ball didn't make it 5 yards
>past the line of scrimmage.  If you saw the Washington game you would have
>noticed that the key was the front 7 pressure, and had nothing to do with a
>specific defense of the deep routs.  Your ranting goes a lot farther if you
>throw in a fact or two along the way.

If, my memory serves me right, the 2 TD interceptions were thrown 
behind the receiver, and the DB was just smart enough to look back. 
Not that it's necessarily a bad thing to throw a pass just behind a 
receiver...sometimes, the coverage dictates it. My point is that I
have never seen any sign of arm strength from Grbac, granted I'm not
a Michigan fan, so I don't pay attention to every last second of the
games, but the highlights of his "spectacular" passes were shown on the
news after the games, and none of his passes was particularly pretty. 


>Ahh, the final defense.  You were wrong, but your not mature enough to admit
>it so you come back with the score.  Great case you've go there.

Maybe it's just that you are plain ignorant.  Michigan fumbled the ball
10 times according to the _Chicago Tribune_ (sorry for stating that it was
11, tho' none of you caught it before me:), rolled up 523 yards of total
offense according to UPI, YET ended up in a 22-22 TIE with an UNRANKED team.
It's funny how the Michigan fans on the net are trying to play down the loss 
I wonder if any of them were among the 100,000+ fans that Booed their team
off the field after the game?  In light of the "stats", it looks like the
score did tell a story:  Michigan was shooting blanks!


>Not at all.  Michigan has had great teams over the last 20 years.  And they
>*always* disappoint their fans along the way.  I'm used to it.  I still think
>your bitter, but only because you haven't provided any other explanation for
>the anger you spewed at Michigan.

Yeah, and it's usually in the Rose Bowl.  Sorry, I couldn't resist that 
one. 

You need to seriously lighten up and take things a little less seriously.
As I've said before, I've noticed that you are a frequent  poster to this
group, so you are probably well aware that there has been a lot of un-
opposed Michigan "woofing" going on.  Geeze, I take one opportunity to 
bring you guys down to Earth, and you jump all over me.  


>You called me, and all michigan fans, obnoxious.  I've never said that about
>your or Illinois fans.  You called my coach a jerk.  I've never said that
>about you.  You slammed my best receiver from last year and this year, along
>with my qb, as undeserving.  I've never slammed your team or players.  I did
>call you overbearing in your post, and I'll stick by that because of the bile
>you spewed forth unprovoked.  So far, though, I think I'm ahead on the polite
>scale GUY.

Your coach IS a JERK.  The man wouldn't shake hands with the coach from 
Northwestern.  The story as reported in the news was that several teams
approached Northwestern's football program and warned them that Michigan
had been leaving 12 men on the field until the last possible minute in
certain situations.  That is ILLEGAL.  From what I gather, Moeller was
irked at the fact that NU's coach warned the officials ahead of time
about Michigan's pattern of misconduct.  You cannot deny that Moeller is
a jerk for that.

As far as "slamming" your players goes, I will stand by my original 
assertions that Howard didn't deserve to win the Heisman trophy (I can
think of a certain QB from East Carolina that deserved it more), Alexander
is a very weak Heisman candidate, and Grbac is not all he's hyped up to
be.  If you can't take a little criticism of your team, then I would have
to question your maturity, although you questioned mine first.

I'm sorry if you don't approve of me saying that every Michigan fan I have
ever run into has been obnoxious, but it's true, especially when they
find out I'm an Illini.  I'll give you a hint as to how to keep this 
paragraph in it's proper context:  Just remember that I have listened to 
the opinions of less than 500 fans.  I am caracterizing those people that
I have heard from...nothing more, nothing less. 

You need to use some common sense.  Extrapolating that I was referring to
every single Michigan fan in the world is rediculous, since I barely
know everyone in Chicago yet:)  Insinuating that I was "calling you 
names" is silly.  Getting so irate when I questioned the quality of
your team and then launching a barrage of personal attacks, directed 
solely at me, is just plain rude. 


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