From: wdo@TEFS1.acd.com (Bill Overpeck)
Subject: Re: Yet more unsubstantiated stuff from Nyikos
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:47:37 GMT

In <1992Oct14.122520.29042@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com 
   (dean.kaflowitz) writes: >
In article <1992Oct13.205332.9526@acd4.acd.com> wdo@TEFS1.acd.com 
   (Bill Overpeck) writes: >>
In <Bw1p2H.AtC.2@cs.cmu.edu> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu 
   (Susan Garvin) writes> >>> 

>>>>> I have met Bill and Karen Bell.  I know grief and anger when
>>>>> I see it.  
>
>>>>I saw those emotions in them, as well.
>
>>>You did neglect to mention it.  I guess you're a lot like
>>>Will Steeves - you say something disgusting and then try
>>>to explain it away.
>
>>Their malice seemed to overshadow their grief.
>
>That's wonderful.  You saw the Bells speak one evening.  Is this
>your expert diagnosis of their emotional state?

You know, as Karen Bell was shouting malicious accusations at
me, I suddenly had the sense that I was being attacked.  I have
no idea where it came from, and it was probably just the product
of an overactive imagination, but it stuck nevertheless.  Or it
could be that she was just having a bad day and needed to vent
her anger, so, in the absence of a cat to kick, she picked a 
small group of people sitting quietly in the back of the room
to castigate.  

>But let us examine this malice, since you have been avoiding
>doing that very thing (avoidance behavior?) by focusing on
>Susan's tone and not her arguments.  Is malice generally
>unmotivated, Bill?  Do people generally just go around being
>malicious for no reason at all?  Is there a reason the Bells
>might exhibit malice towards pro-lie supporters?  

As I've already indicated to you, I can understand their
response - I just don't think it's justified. 

>Their
>daughter died from an illegal abortion because she was unable,
>for whatever reason, to go to her parents to obtain the consent
>required by law.  The people who pushed for and support that
>law are pro-lie supporters, like yourself.  Could this
>possibly be the motivation behind their "malice?"

Possibly.  Are there other possibilities, or only the one?

>And don't tell me you don't have enough information to tell
>us whether that could be the motivation because it is 
>unprofessional to make such judgements based on so little
>information.  

Touchy.  I didn't.

>You already said that their "malice seemed to
>overshadow their grief."  So you've passed one judgement
>already.

I normally don't have difficulty inferring hostility when
someone is shouting accusations at me.  Characterizing that 
as "passing judgement" has, I think, unfair implications. 

>I am utterly unable to understand how you can be so quick
>to condemn and judge a pair of grieving parents so harshly
>for trying to express their grief in a way they feel may be
>helpful to other parents.  

Where have I condemned them?  I'm not sitting here denying
their story (like so many other pro-lifers).  I'm not denying
their pain nor am I unable to comprehend why they might be
opposed to consent/notification laws.  Your perceptions are
faulty.

>I think, and here I tread the dangerous ground of diagnosis, 
>that you took their remarks to you and your coterie of pro-lie 
>supporters very personally.

The remarks were unmistakebly personal.  And as I've said, I 
don't accept responsibility for their daughter's death.  

>I think they rather struck some deep chords with you and
>you are lashing out in response rather than deal with the
>notion that maybe, just maybe, pro-lie supporters do share
>some responsibility for Becky Bell's death.  

I've yet to "lash out" (unlike Karen Bell) in regard to this
issue.

>I think you
>want to avoid facing the ugly fact that pro-lie legislation
>did and will result in the deaths of women.

And flawed or dysfunctional family relationships don't/won't?

Bill  
Newsgroups: talk.abortion