From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Foreign policy musings
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:21:16 GMT
Reply-To: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Organization: The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, MA - Data: 508-682-5329

cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond) writes:

> murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:
> 
> >Nobody should be misled that the Gulf War had anything more than a thin
> >veneer of "humanitarian reasons" to get involved.

> It is my opinion , that without the abuse there would have been no UN or
> US military effort. If Iraq had occupied Kuwait in a "civilized" fashion,
> then sanctions (not workable) would have been all that was tried. Kuwait
> would now be the 19th province.

Yes, I agree that there was abuse of the citizens of Kuwait by the Iraqi
occupiers and I also agree that sanctions don't work with zealots.  BUT - that
abuse was not the only reason for mucking around in there.

We have to keep in mind that there needs to be political (as in the citizenry)
support for a war as well as muscle.  Vietnam painfully points to that.  The
citizens weren't supporting that war and the effort collapsed.  There was
support for U.S. involvement on several fronts; economic and humanitarian.
Something for everyone from the touchy/feely Liberals to the average Joe and
Conservatives who wanted to keep prices for oil down and protect its supply.

In Yugoslavia, such will not be the case.  There is nothing there for
Americans.  Some will have us march off to war because someone shows them a
picture of a "P.O.W." camp.

America can no longer afford to be the policeman of the world and shouldn't be
expected to be so in the face of other countries equally capable.  Because we
pour so much money into the military to protect everyone and his brother,
other countries beat us at the economic game.

Can't have it both ways.  I'm curious, where do you stand on foreign aid?

> The reasons to stay out of Yugoslavia are not that we do not have an
> economic stake. The reasons are rather that there are no clear actions
> that are beneficial more than they are harmful and there are no "good
> guys". All of the participants are guilty of "ethnic cleansing" , so 
> how can we help any of them.

I'll take ANY reason to stay out as long as we stay out!  :-)  It WILL divide
this country and it WILL cost money that we can spend elsewhere.

> Murph, your lack of compassion shows up in your posts about education and
> now here in your posts about foreign policy. You have indicated that you
> are strongly Christian, yet your attitudes are not even close to the
> Christian charitable ideal and bear no resemblance to the teachings of
> Jesus that are in the Bible. Even though I am not Christian myself, I
> feel that I have learned more from reading the Bible than you have. You
> should sit down and read it. Especially the New Testament.

I'll thank you not to lump me in with the bible-thumpers.  I make a clean
distinction between my personal religious beliefs and my government.  I am not
a slave to anyone's ideology.  My "compassion" ends where my pocketbook
begins.  I'm happy to deal in generics like _basic_ education but when people
want me to start to fund others' ideas of a Better Way, I want to be heard,
too.  If we can't agree, we'll both take our money and do it ourselves.

BTW:  I don't agree we should have prayer in school.

Take this war thing, again, and my money.  I wouldn't want to spend my money
for someone else's ideals.  Remember Korea and Vietnam again?  (I don't, I was
too young to appreciate its enormity and didn't study it)  We were there to
stop the spread of Communism which held that it'd "bury the Capitalists."
That was us, m'man, and well worth fighting for: our national security.  Now
that Communism has been discredited, who cares?

Now we have Yugoslavia.  There's some "ethnic-cleansing" going on and people
are dying.  Let 'em!  They want to do that to themselves, who cares?  Their
actions, beyond evoking pity, have no affect on this country.  Want to send
them some supplies?  Go right ahead!  Want to send them my father or brother
or even me to die for them?  no, No, NO!  _THAT'S_ where I draw the line!
U.N. be damned!

                        Christianity or compassion begins at home...
                                      - - - Murph

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, Massachusetts - Data: (508) 682-5329
   SysAdmin:  murph@buscard.fidonet.org / ...!ulowell!wizvax!buscard!murph
Newsgroups: ne.politics