From: tin@smsc.sony.com (Le Tin)
Subject: Re: alt.politics.vietnamese (was [POL] Re: DIALOG(Thua^.t hoa`i))
Organization: Sony Microsystems Corp, San Jose, CA
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 06:23:50 GMT

Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese
Subject: Re: alt.politics.vietnamese (was [POL] Re: DIALOG(Thua^.t hoa`i))
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Sony Microsystems Corp, San Jose, CA
Keywords: 

In article <22990@drutx.ATT.COM> kvt@druwa.ATT.COM (KVT) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.043827.13926@smsc.sony.com> tin@smsc.sony.com (Le Tin) writes:
>#   Sigh, I posted the full information and still some people get
># confused.
># 
>#   I am not forcing anyone to do anything.  I am _asking_ people to
># voluntarily follow some simple guidelines.  This is in the interest
># of keeping SCV free of the flamage that some people seem to enjoy.
># We have gone through this discussion many times before on whether
># politics should be discussed on SCV or not, and how to make sure
># people who are interested in the discussion can continue.
># ....[deleted]....

>I hope Tin Le didn't think he is becoming the one who DICTATES WHAT IS
>GOOD AND WHAT IS BAD FOR THE SCV. By saying "asking", not "forcing",
>and then labelling who would not do as he asks (moving followups to
>APV) as "a*hole", there is only difference between "asking" and
>"forcing" that he alone can understand. Whether Tin Le opposed or
>agreed with this alt group does not mean SCVers automatically need 
>to do the same.  Whether Tin Le creates one mail gateway (or a 
>thousand for that matter), that fact does not mean people have to do 
>what Tin Le "asks" people to do.
....blah...blah...[deleted]....

  Thank you for taking all that time to repeat exactly what I said
in my message.  Now that we have the same message repeated twice, any
one else want to make a third time to be sure? :)

  It maybe hard for you to understand, but let us examine what I said
and what you are making a big thing out of.

>#   Yes, I realize that not all sites carry alt.*, and the ones that
># do may not carry all alt.* groups.  That is why I have _also_
># created a news to mail gateway, similar to the SCV relay mailing
># list.  With these two methods, that should cover everyone (news
># and mailing list).  That leaves only the people who enjoy flaming
># in public and be a complete a*hole and public nuisance.  _Those_
># people I leave to the SCV netters to deal with.

  Earlier this year, there was the big arguments between Chris Chu, Longan
and many others too numerous to mention.  I believe (please correct me
if I am wrong) that most people on SCV was very tired of it and wanted
them to stop.  SCVers even asked me to do something about it.  I explained
at the time that I have no authority nor do I feel that I should be a
"net policeman."  This is a problem that the SCVers should take care of
themselves.  And so they did to the few that persisted in making a complete
nuisance of themselves (the term a*hole may be strong but it certainly fits).
What was that term that people was referring to SCV then?  Oh yes, it was
cho+. ca' (fish market).  The place certainly stink and smell like one. :)

  During these flame wars, I did not see you, Kim V Tran, do anything
about it.  As a matter of fact, you joined in.  Even now, you are resorting
to character attack on Thi.nh.  Is that why you are protesting against
APV?  You prefer to make personal attacks in public?  A bigger audience
for you?

>Probably, in his overpowering wisdom, Tin Le didn't see that a USENET
>group has many nice features over a mailing list: no need to subscribe
>or unsubscribe, no need to watch for your mail space for flooding
>(no need to worry about mails when you're on vacation for example),
>kill file to delete unwanted articles, don't have to depend on
>somebody's generosity for services,.... even another USENET is created
>for this purpose, this alternative needs to be thoroughly discussed
>by all interested SCVers before it becomes a "non-a*hole" way.

  This is nitpicking.  I provided _two_ alternatives, mailing list AND
newsgroup.  So what do you have to do?  Find something else to complain
about.  Several people has already explained about HOW ALT.* HIERARCHY
WORK.  Would you like to have it explain to you again?  I am willing to
mail you the complete FAQ on what Usenet is and how it work.

  The alternative has been discussed before AND SCVers DID asked me
previously to create another newsgroup for political discussions only.
They asked for talk.politics.vietnamese.  I can not create that without
justification (per the Usenet guidelines).  Therefore, I created APV to
use as the justification.  A number of SysAdmins has emailed me after
I created APV to ask why.  Evidently my explanations to them were good
enough -- as we can see that the group is now starting to appear around
the world.

  BTW, if you would like to see previous messages where SCVers discussed
this AND asked me to create a new newsgroup, let me know.  I archive
SCV and will be happy to dig it up for you.

  I did not do this [created APV] lightly.  It took 6 months of thinking
and discussing with people through private email and meetings before I
agreed to it.  It is not my problem if you missed the discussions.

  If you have a _real_ good reason, let us all hear it.  Otherwise, stop
nitpicking.  If you got something against me, take it to email, SCVers
don't care for these stupid flame wars.

Regards,
Tin Le
-- 
.----------------------------------------------------------------------
. Tin Le                    Work Internet: tin@smsc.Sony.COM
. Sony Microsystems
. Office: (408) 944-4157     Other Internet Addr: tin@szebra.Saigon.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese