HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Chinese Currency (Was: Re: Long-term direction of the dollar)
Date: 9 Sep 92 02:00:15 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <23086@sybase.sybase.com> coop@sybase.com (John Cooper) writes:
>In article <1992Aug29.121249.12917@athena.mit.edu> joe@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug27.152331.11593@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>>>The XSSR, Israel, the mideast
>>>OPEC countries to name a few are dollar based economies because there is no
>>>confidence in their own currencies.  China would be too if the influx of
>>>dollars was not tightly controlled. 

>>I doubt that, for two reasons.
>>First of all, there doesn't seem to be a major lack of confidence in
>>the Renminbi.  The exchange rate on the black market is only slightly
>>higher than the official exchange rate.  (Black market rate is

>While the Chinese economy is probably not in trouble, I don't know that the
>above figures prove confidence in it.  First of all, the fact that a black
>market exists at all seems to me to be a poor sign of confidence.  It doesn't

I don't know about China, but a black market does not necessarily reflect a
lack of confidence in the local currency.  In India the black market 
premium for dollars was based on the fact that the rupee was not
convertible outside the country and only a small amount could be converted
to dollars officially.  The fact that the rupee was less stable than the
dollar was compensated by interest rates that took that into account,
so people remaining in the country and not engaging in foreign transactions
did not need black market dollars.  People who wanted to emigrate needed
to smuggle dollars out.  The premium was about 25% when I was there.
The rupee could have been the most stable currency in the world and the
premium might still be 25% if it was not convertible. (Past tense indicates
I have not kept up with recent developments.)

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
What is the world's largest government subsidy to agriculture,
terrorism, speedboat manufacturing, organized crime, and prison
construction?
From: wouk@alumni.cs.colorado.edu (Arthur Wouk)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Fwd: Funny Money Props Up Wall St.
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:02:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Sep10.162140.11954@clpd.kodak.com> fischer@li.serum.kodak.com (Chris Fischer (x39613)) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.001407.21673@u.washington.edu> ngrjn@milton.u.washington.edu (V Nagarajan) writes:
>>From: nyxfer%panix.com@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (N.Y. Transfer)
>>Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
>>Subject: Funny Money Props Up Wall St.
>>Date: 9 Sep 92 22:28:57 GMT
>>Article-I.D.: mont.1992Sep9.222857.22840
>>Sender: news@mont.cs.missouri.edu
>>

the details of the messages here are not important. at the time these
events took place, there were extensive rumors that the fed was
intervening. these rumors were reported on CNBC/FNN at the time, but
there has been no followup.

the best verdict todate is the scotch verdict: not proven.

that is not the same as not guilty.

it would be very hard to prove anything about this. the brokers sure
are not talking; they never do.
-- 
arthur wouk 
internet: wouk@alumni.cs.colorado.edu
From: brijesh@tzu.sybase.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: saatchi
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:18:39 GMT

I think SAAtchi split was 10:1
Also, since we are on Saachi there was a lawsuit against them
so if you bought their stock during July 15, 1987 and December 11, 1991
(both dates inclusive) you may be able to recover some losses.

BTW, what are the source of problems for Saatchi?  One would think
with stronger Pound Sterling we should see better results, or is it
that SAAtchi PLC 's US operations are totally seperate?
Any other news about them?  Several months ago it was highly recommended.

interesed
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: steve@nmt.edu (Steve "Milky Cereal" Cook)
Subject:   What is this newsgroup about?
Organization: New Mexico Tech
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:05:10 GMT


	What is this newsgroup?  Is it information about investing or
what?

-steve@jupiter.nmt.edu
-- 
"I won't come out, You must come in to me.
 Into my womb garden where I peer out.
 Where I can construct a universe within the skull to rival the real."
-James Douglas Morrison
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: rion@Ingres.COM (Rion Cassidy (x3357) OGT)
Subject: Re: Fidelity Fund Options
Reply-To: rion@Ingres.COM 
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 10 Sep 92 00:30:30 GMT

In article <Dmerrill-090992130325@47.140.3.216> Dmerrill@bnr.ca (Dana Merrill) writes:
>
>Furthermore, it has always seemed that it would be of benefiet for EVERYONE
>if a company had its 401 plan with someone such as Fidelity (as long as
>Fidelity waived the loads!!!).  Employees whould have a very wide choice
>of options for directing their 401s, Fidelity (or whoever) whould get
>a tremendous amount of new buisness (and make plenty from fund management
>fees (expenses), without the load), and I would think that the employer 
>would save as well by simply passing the 401 contributions along to
>Fidelity, significantly reducing plan administration costs.
>
>Anyone care to comment?  Is this done at other companies?  

Yes, our company does the very thing you suggest, except we use the American 
Funds group.  I'm not real impressed with the choices (averaging 11-16%),
but it's a heck of a lot better than getting shares of stock from a company
that is losing ground (like I had with Tandy).

Rion
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Off-shore investment trusts??
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:57:11 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <BuMszG.Ktt@fc.sde.hp.com> Gary Fritz <fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com> writes:
>I've just been introduced to an interesting "investment vehicle" and wondered
As in "taken for a ride"?
>if anyone else had ever heard of such a thing.
>
>given to me by someone I know pretty well and respect, and he has some
>experience with similar instruments (detailed below), so I'm giving it
>a more serious look.

This is easy.  Since the guy is your good friend and has made so much already,
and since you are temporarily short of cash, he can easily lend you $10,000
for a few months until you can pay him back from the profits.  It's a sure
thing, so you don't need any other collateral.   You can give him a gift instead
of interest so he won't pay taxes.  Everybody gets rich without risk.
Now that WE are good friends, you can do the same for me next year.

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
GM Executive (paraphrased): Expanding Saturn production is not appropriate.
	As those buyers mature, they will move up to traditional GM models.
Too many Quayludes.
From: bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Electronic brokerages
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:41:54 EST
Organization: Logicon Technical Services, Inc.

In article <1992Sep12.022802.10514@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, cjb3701@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Chris Bigenwald) writes:
> After several years of mutual fund investing, I would like to 
> try out some individual stocks (maybe).  Has anyone any experience
> with the electronic brokerages on CompuServe or is that not a
> good way to go?  Is it really cheaper?

	E-Trade (?) is the Compu$pend stock trading gateway.  It's fairly
cheap, but by no means the cheapest.  I have a friend who uses it.  No
complaints so far.
	A benefit is that you need only call the local Compu$pend number and
not the brokerages (potentially) long-distance number.

Brett--------------------------------------------------------------------------
	"Why the courts don't tell a husband who has been living off his wife
to go out and get a job is beyond my comprehension."--Joan Lunden
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: 401k Rollover Legality Question
Date: 7 Sep 92 04:55:47 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: misc.invest
Distribution: usa

ganesh@madras.sybase.com (Ganesh Sundaresan) writes:
|
|Not true. I suggest that anyone planning a rollover of 401(k) funds
|write the IRS for the publication on IRA's, get it free of charge 
|and read it.

For those in the USA, the IRS' phone number is 800 TAX FORM, and
the relevant publication numbers are 590 and 575.  But note carefully
the dates on the ones they send you (they may not include new rules
that were made after they were printed)!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: cjb3701@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Chris Bigenwald)
Subject: Electronic brokerages
Reply-To: cjb3701@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 02:28:02 GMT

After several years of mutual fund investing, I would like to 
try out some individual stocks (maybe).  Has anyone any experience
with the electronic brokerages on CompuServe or is that not a
good way to go?  Is it really cheaper?
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: What is Venture Capital??
Date: 9 Sep 1992 05:53:48 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: gandalf.think.com

In article <1992Sep8.190258.18172@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cblph.att.com writes:
>A venture capitalist has money to loan, often in return for 
>certain payback arrangements as well as stock in the company and
>perhaps a hand in the management of the company.   For example,
>if you need $350,000, the V.C. may lend you this amount, and you
>give him an agreement to pay this back on a schedule over a 5 year
>period, you give him 33% of the shares of strock in your company and
>a seat on the board of directors.

Are you sure that the VC money is a "loan"?  I thought that they actually
purchased preferred stock in the company.  They get their 33% of the
company by virtue of the amount of stock that's declared.  And their
eventual payback comes from the ability to sell their stock if the company
goes public.

>If for some reason your plans don't work out as you expected, and
>you spend all the money and still don't have the gizmo's bugs worked
>out, you may have to call it quits.  The venture capitalist will
>be out the money (the gov't will help with taxes though)  and you
>will be out of business.

This is why it's stock, not a loan (or, in investment terms, a bond).  If
it were a loan, the investor would be near the head of the list of
creditors who get paid back out of whatever assets you have left when you
declare bankrupcy.  Holders of preferred stock, on the other hand, are at
the tail of the list.  Their risk is therefore the highest, but so is their
potential payoff if the company succeeds, since they generally purchase
stock at very low prices.

>Some venture capital companies are actually run as subsidiaries by
>banks and investment banks and brokerage firms, others are private
>companies, often specializing in some service or technical industry.

Some are also limited partnerships, which pool money from ordinary
investors, much like mutual funds (but since there's no public market for
LP shares, you're generally stuck in the partnership for the long term).
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: nicklaus@lonetree.lonetree.physics.wisc.edu (Dennis J. Nicklaus)
Subject: Re: Economic effects of election results
Organization: Univ. Wisconsin High Energy Physics
	<1992Sep1.030110.7228@news.columbia.edu>
	<1992Sep8.115811.4087@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <65799@cup.portal.com>
Date: 15 Sep 92 10:08:59

From: Amiga@cup.portal.com (Philip Barry Kirschner) Writes:
>What most people fail to realize about gain's in medical technology is(
>the fact that University projects and hospitals are where the gains are
>madmade an not personal cooperate investments by the leeching pharmacuticals!

Speaking as someone who used to work in "medical technology"
(GE's MRI business), Mr. Kirschner's statement is pretty naive.
I don't know what he meant by "personal cooperate investments",
but I do know that companies (like GE) put in considerable
investments into improving medical technology.  Yes, a lot of
the investigation involves Univ. hospitals -- they have the patients
and doctors who know what they want in the way of improvements.
OK, my direct experience isn't with pharmaceuticals, 
and I do know it takes considerable capital investment to bring a 
new drug to the market. Yes, they're in it for a profit and that's
what makes it nice:  you can make a profit making something
beneficial to people.  Of course it requires a collaboration with
the researchers who actually see the patients.

Dennis
P.S.  Learn to spell.
From: rauchfuss@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Brian Rauchfuss)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:38:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Fwd: Funny Money Props Up Wall St.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: misc.invest

In misc.invest, ngrjn@milton.u.washington.edu (V Nagarajan) writes:

> There's no question that "some entity has been intervening in the
> markets and recklessly buying stock futures when the market's
> heading down," the Republican loyalist New York Post reported
> Aug. 29. That same morning, the Wall Street Journal asked, "Would
> the Bush administration try to prop up the stock market?" NBC was
> the first TV network to run the story.
>
> Who benefits from this state intervention? Certainly not ordinary
> people, the majority of whom own no stock at all. That's why it's
> being done so secretly. The winners here will be the financiers,
> brokers, money managers, Chief executive officers and hordes of
> financial consultants, along with other major shareholders.

The most likely explaination of this intervention by the fed is not that the
evil rich are maninpulating the government, but that Greenspan knows that all
sorts of bad things would happen after a stock market meltdown, including Bush
not being elected.  It would be interesting to know whether they plan to
continue this intervention after the election.

I would like to take exception to the claim that ordinary people own no stock
at all; I have to point out that the pension funds and 401K's of ordinary
people are invested in the stock market, and many ordinary people own mutual
funds and individual stocks.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Rauchfuss (Smokefoot)  "... the world could change in the blink
brian@hpfcbdr.fc.hp.com           of an eye."
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ed@odi.com (Ed Schwalenberg)
Subject: Re: Question about more generous IRAs.
Organization: Object Design, Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 18:13:38 GMT

In article <23169@sybase.sybase.com> ganesh@madras.sybase.com (Ganesh Sundaresan) writes:
   More generally, isn't anyone other than me paranoid about
  the persistent and ongoing Government fiddling, and proposals
  to fiddle, with the rules regarding 401(k)'s, IRA deductibility 
  and the taxes on distributions, premature or otherwise? 

Forbes ran an article a few months ago on this phenomenon.  Briefly,
it pointed out the magic numbers which still aren't inflation-adjusted,
and the other numbers that were easy to change to extract more taxes
from the taxpayers without raising a general alarm.  Gourmet food for
conspiracy theorists, it is worth at least a few chews by average
taxpayers like me.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: sartin@88opensi.88open.ORG (Rob Sartin)
Subject: Re: Fidelity Fund Options
Reply-To: sartin@88opensi.UUCP (Rob Sartin)
Organization: 88open Consortium Ltd., San Jose
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:08:47 GMT

Defined contribution plans at mutual fund companies are becoming very popular.
Fidelity currently manages $40B in defined contribution accounts and has
an attractive rollover option (expands investment alternatives and waves
loads) for those who leave a Fidelity run 401(k). The Wall Street Journal has
been running articles on this topic this week in the Money and Investing section.
This is a major area for profits and competition right now as employers try
to get out of defined benefit plans and out of management of defined contribution
plans.

In article <Dmerrill-090992130325@47.140.3.216> Dmerrill@bnr.ca (Dana Merrill) writes:
>My first question is whether or not you have to pay Fidelity's loads under
>a plan such as this.

1. Usually the mutual fund company will wave the loads.  Not always.  This
is negotiated when the plan is set up.

>Furthermore, it has always seemed that it would be of benefiet for EVERYONE
>if a company had its 401 plan with someone such as Fidelity (as long as

2. Usually the mutual fund company will charge expenses to the individual.
These run around the same as annual IRA expenses (~$30-$50) for most
fund families I've looked at.

>Fidelity waived the loads!!!).  Employees whould have a very wide choice
>of options for directing their 401s, Fidelity (or whoever) whould get

3. Here's the lose.  The 401(k) may not have a very wide choice of options.
In the original article, I think it said there were only the legally required
four choices.  This is true of the Fidelity 401(k) plan I had.

Where the advantage can come is at rollover time.  The fund company may make
an attractive rollover option available.  My funds at Fidelity were all treated
as if they had paid the maximum load, my investment restrictions were
eliminated, and my expenses can be paid by check rather than out of my 401(k)
balance.  (Of course the second two conditions would be true had I rolled from
a non Fidelity 401(k)).

Rob
From: bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: direct stock purchases...
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:21:14 EST
Organization: Logicon Technical Services, Inc.

In article <BuFLwF.4ME@doppler.ncsc.org>, kmoore@ncsc.org (Kevin Moore) writes:
> Recently there was a note that many companies sell their stock directly (I
> think the note was about Disney stock). A number was given through which
> the stock can be purchased. I was not aware of this. If this is true,
> why don't more people purchase stock this way rather than going through
> a broker (or maybe they do and I'm not aware of it)? Do most companies
> provide this service?

	Dividend reinvestments are a good way to buy stock, but not all
companies offer it, and you have to have at least one share before you can
participate.

	Also, most (if not all) limit buying to certain times of the year (say
within 30 days of dividen dispersals).  You get a form with your dividend
statement with which you can mail back a check to buy more stock.

	I did this with Sears for about 10 years.  The dividends in cash would
have been paltry (for me :) but over the years I purchased another 75 shares
of stock.  If I had ever sent money in, I could have bought even more.

Brett--------------------------------------------------------------------------
	"Why the courts don't tell a husband who has been living off his wife
to go out and get a job is beyond my comprehension."--Joan Lunden
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: shannon@sierra.com (Shannon Maher)
Subject:  401K rollovers and new possible retirement changes
Organization: Sierra Geophysics Inc.,  Kirkland, Wa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:00:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.171700.20051@cs.brown.edu> jhc@iris.brown.edu.UUCP (James H. Coombs) writes:
>In article <BtyK5v.Bp3@apollo.hp.com> saz@apollo.HP.COM (Steven A. Zedeck) writes:
>
>>Whatever you do transfer into an IRA, you should put in into
>>a separate IRA and not mix these funds with a previously setup
>>IRA. This will give you more flexibility in moving the money around later.
>>You also shouldn't mix pre-tax dollar IRA money with post-tax dollar IRA.
>
>If there is actually something to be gained, then I would like to know
>about it.  The only thing that I have heard is that I might later be
>able to roll the money into a plan with a new employer.  From the few
>that I have seen, however, such plans are too restrictive for me
>(including 401k and 403b).  From the current perspective, I would
>rather have complete control of the money and risk giving up some minor
>tax benefits down the road---but not major tax benefits.  Are there
>major risks?
>
>--Jim

   There is at least one advantage to keeping rolled over 401K money separate 
from IRA money.  The one I hear cited often is the ability to then roll
the (former) 401K money into a 401K with a new employer.  The plus in 
doing this is that when you eventually take distributions from the 
401K, you qualify for preferential tax treatment (5 or 10 year averaging) 
on your distribution.

   Of course, as you mention, you also have to abide by the rules and 
use the investments of the new employer's 401K program.  This will
probably make it not worth your while to roll the IRA into the new
employer's 401K, unless you are very near to the point where you will
be taking distributions.

   On an allied issue:  I understand that the new rules for rollovers,
that have been much discussed on the net, have a potentially beneficial 
side effect.  It seems as though, if your 401K plans allows 
distributions while you are still employed, that you can directly roll 
these distributions into a qualified (and self-directed) IRA - thus 
giving you more direct control of your retirement investments and 
increasing your options.  Sort of the reverse of the situation above.  
Question - does anybody have any additional knowledge of this 
side-effect?  Also, does your employer control whether or not 
you can take districutions from your 401K, or does the gov. set some 
rules?

Shannon Maher                 Q: What's the difference between John Gotti and 
shannon@sierra.com              George Bush?
"Visualize Whirled Peas"      A: At least John Gotti has ONE conviction. 
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: newsalt@qedqcd.rye.ny.us (News Acct. 2)
Subject: Re: The US dollar and the Maastrich (sp?) treaty
Organization: High Energy Concepts
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1992 16:45:54 GMT


Hi,
	In summary: 

	Oui: buy usd and or sell dem against your favorite currency;

	Non: probably sell usd ag dem and buy dem against any ems currency
	     (and look out for the reallignment of the EMS)

Mike

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Mike Miskulin		mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us	70053,551@compuserve.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------