From: rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz)
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,soc.culture.british,alt.sex
Subject: Re: SEX
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:36:46 GMT
Organization: The Armory

In article <Bs225t.LI5@cs.dal.ca> franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve "edified" Franklin) writes:
>In article <goldenshower@vadier.gr.osf.org> emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>>sabg9174@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tolthrye) writes:
>
>>                  ...  I would not say no to the chance to ogle a
>>bunch of rugby players in the shower, their likely attitude would be
>>such as to make this a less than pleasant experience in practice.
>>This is a product not of sexism but of homophobia.  However I didn't
>>feel like launching a huge discussion on the subject, nor do I now
>>think such a discussion would be interesting to most readers on these
>>groups.
>>
>
>This is ridiculous. I am afraid that I no longer can sit passively during 
>this thread. Homophobia is an IRRATIONAL response to homosexuals and 
>their practices. It is NOT irrational to be disgusted by the concept of two
>(wo)men having sex. Although one should tolerate and leave alone such men and
>women, they should never be forced to accept, practice, or condone it.
>   If there was a kissing booth charging a dollar for charity, and a man
>came up with a dollar bill, I would exercise my right to say no to the man.
>Does this make me a bigot? A homophobic? No, of course not. Instead, it
>makes me a heterosexual who is completely faithful to, and comfortable
>with his sexuality. To refuse any sort of sexual connotations towards
>a homosexual is not homophobic, but my right. 
>   The rugby players would most likely feel uncomfortable being treated
>as sex objects by other men, and if this is the case, then they have
>every right to reject such a scenario. 
>   You can ask a heterosexual to accept or tolerate your practices and 
>beliefs, but when you ask him/her to join them? I suspect they will
>be less than willing...
>
>steve franklin
--------------------------------------
If you have a reaction to eating bananas then it is a justified
avoidance. If your reaction is conditioned and could as easily be
de-conditioned, then you are simply expressing an irrational fear.
Homophobia is such a fear. I once had it, it *is* conditioned. I don't
have it anymore. My wife had a conditioned dislike of bananas. She
couldn't even stand the smell, but she had no adverse health reaction
to bananas. We had little to eat once. We were very hungry. A friend,
unknowing brought us a huge bunch of bananas and a few other things.
My wife finally tried a banana, and then another and another. Now she
likes bananas! In the first commune I helped to start we had rented a
store front as a living quarters in a small town. We had no table to
eat on, the seven of us. I took the door off the bathroom and we
propped it on saw horses and prepared and had supper. Afterwards,
people wanted to use the john, which was right behind the bathroom
door. People said, just go ahead and go, some others said they were
embarrassed. One woman had a near nervous breakdown about it, but
finally did use the john. The table became a permanent fixture. The
next day when I came home from work, I found that same woman taking a
shit while talking to four other people who were laying butt down in
the dry old fashioned bathtub with feet. She wasn't embarrassed at
all. So much for phobias. Now, if you had some kind of physical
reaction to participating in homosex, I could excuse it as justified.
Since you don't, I must assume that you have a phobia. It is called
homophobia. Now there is such a thing as not wishing to participate in
homosex because it is not interesting to you. Just as some don't think
bananas taste all that good. But you insist that you have a viceral
reaction to even seeing or discussing homosexual acts. That is the
more extreme form of homophobia. You are truly frightened of even the
concept, or of the act occurring around you even if you needn't
participate. This is clearly conditioned and represents a genuine fear
(phobia) on your part. Now what that fear is I cannot say. There have
been a lot of people who couldn't admit their homosexuality who have
had this phobia and still do, but I think it can occur without that.
But you must realize that such a powerful phobia as yours is indeed a
disruption to others who feel as normal as pie about homosex going on
around them, even if they decline to try it. They are usually simply
interested in heterosex and have no feeling one way or the other about
homosex, as would seem obvious and appropriate. But you continue to
generate an irrational fear not only of you having it "accepted" by
you, but also the "practice" of it around you and even "condoning" it
for others who like it. This is clearly a phobia which interferes with
others' right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Surely
you aren't such a coward that you cannot even watch homosex
dispassionately, since, I presume, it elicits no passion in you? Or is
that really true?.......... Whereas the reaction of a reasonable
person to homosex might be, "oh, that's interesting", as in watching two
women if the watcher is hetero; or two men, if the watcher is hetero, it
might be, "wheee, then there's more pussy for me", instead you present
us with your dark shit and ask us to tolerate your intolerance.
Nothing doing.
- Steve Walz
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.sex,soc.culture.british