HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 90tms@eng.cam.ac.uk (T.M. Speight)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Lunches and Snacks: what do you bring?
Date: 23 Nov 92 02:06:56 GMT
	<1992Nov22.173558.25037@midway.uchicago.edu>
Organization: Engineering Department, Cambridge University, England.

In article <1992Nov22.173558.25037@midway.uchicago.edu> ehel@quads.uchicago.edu (E. Helsinger) writes:

   This thread has evolved from the practical issue of lunch and snacks
   to the greater question of Food for Fun.

   1. Kendall Mint Cake -- made in the English Lake District, intense
   mint and refreshing, hard as a rock and keeps for years.  Nothing like
   it for reviving the spirits -- the Black Bear that ripped open my
   daypack this summer actually slowed down when he came to the Kendall
   Mint Cake.  I don't know whether he slowed down because it was hard,
   or because it was good.

Unfortunately, I have found, when I try to make my Kendal (note
spelling: my family live there ;-) Mint Cake `last fo years', I find
it crumbles to small pieces inside its wrapper. I used to carry mint
cake as emergency food, but now I tend to take it with the intention
of eating it within one week's walking, instead of sitting it in my
sack trip after trip.

As an alternative high-energy emergency food, I now take those jellies
that come wrapped in a polymer package to which you're supposed to add
water and then leave to set. I discovered the value of this food by
accident, when I ran out of food on a trip to Scotland and ended up
eating a friend's. One great advantage is that I find it too sugary
and sticky to eat unless it _really_is_ an emergency; an important
consideration in my view.

--
90tms@uk.ac.cam.eng      Cambridge University
Toby Speight             Engineering Department
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dwaldr@mwc.vak12ed.edu (Deborah A. Waldron)
Subject: CANADA CANOEING
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Fredericksburg)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 02:24:38 GMT

I'm looking for information about 8-12 day canoe trips in
eastern Canada. (preferably New Brunswick or Quebec) A perfect
trip would have a mix of lakes and whitewater-class II and
III.  However, any information would be great.

The trip would be taken in late summer so spring runoff rivers
aren't all that useful to me. The more backcountry the better. 

Thanks. Either post info here or send it to me at
dwaldr@mwc.vak12ed.edu


Deb waldron
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dmanke@sanjuan (Dennis Manke)
Subject: Alimeter Watches (Update)
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria B.C. CANADA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 07:28:26 GMT

The response to a friends letter to climbing is that a review of alto
watches will be out in the April issue.

The new Casio 6000m Alto watch is now here (~$150 Can).
Personally I can't wait till April when they will probably be out of stock
and in peak demand.

If anyone has a new one and has any gripes could you let me know as I'll
probably be buying my Christmas present in a few days (thanks in advance).

Dennis         dmanke@sanjuan.uvic.ca
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: other bashing.
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 02:06:12 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Nov18.160628.16908@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt) writes:
>I'll look her up this week. You must have found a magic SB fountain...

I did.  Maybe a dozen left in the bag at home.  I once found a day pack
fountain (Kelty in Glendale: picked up 62 Camp Trails day packs for <$2 each).

>>>        Mark Twain (Clemens).
>see Ascent, III.

Yes, I know this one.

>>>        Norbert Casteret.
>>
>>We don't have NC, and I don't have time to look up his writings.
>>But if you could elaborate.
>Thought he might get by you. Classic accounts of early French caving.
>_The Years Under the Earth_, _The Darkness Under the Earth_, others.

Ah!  Caving, no wonder, and I thought cavers were most excellent and
superior to all others!  I will add upon a "second" and no objections
as is standard procedure.

>>Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
>>			3 down 1 to go.
>Have you checked with Spartan Books?

I have a circulating request with Powell's in Portland (c/o Martha Roos),
so I don't quite want two queries at once (I have read this wonderful book:
the inspiration of Hofstaeder's Godel, Escher, Bach book).  This was
perhaps my most successful signature line getting three classic books,
one for free (Optimizing Compilers: 15 years out of print and two CS profs
requesting to copy it), Imhof: my most expensive book [on cartography: $150],
and an interesting book on Ben Whorf).

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: USFS Backcountry Fees
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:10:56 GMT
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies

In article <1992Nov18.010856.7327@unocal.com>, stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
> In article <1ebq45INNm42@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
> > My first
> >response was negative.  However, to say that the money collected
> >would be used to replace logging revenues.  The implication was that
> >for every $1 collected from backpackers there would be $1 less in
> >timber sales.  If this is true I would be inclined to change my
> >view.


Another alternative would be to allow less logging and charge much higher
fees for the logging that is allowed.  It's been claimed that current
logging operations are run at a loss to the USFS. This is not a new proposal.

> It is annoying for
> non-profit hiking clubs like the Sierrans and college outing clubs
> to have to fork out a couple hundred dollars in advance for a season's worth
> of permits.  As with any regulation, when it gets too annoying, then people
> may stop obeying it.

Having to get permits/tickets for non-wilderness National Forests would 
remove what I consider to be their principal advantage: the freedom to 
pretty much just go when you want, where you want, and do what you want
without having to get some kind of approval ahead of time from some
authority.

Also, there's a potentially annoying tactical problem.  Unlike National
Parks, many National Forests have dozens of entry points, but maybe only
one office that might be 2 hours drive on the opposite side from where
you're going.  I doubt they're going to set up large numbers of 
conveniently placed ticket booths.

-- 
John Reece			"This lifeboat is full"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			 
From: edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:27:12 GMT
Subject: Re: uncontrolable tongues!!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

In rec.backcountry, v100mfha@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (jen) writes:

>HELP!!

>DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY SOLUTIONS ON HOW TO KEEP THE TONGUES OF MY BOOTS IN THE 
>CENTER, INSTEAD OF SLIPPING OFF TO THE SIDE.  THERE ISN'T A HOLE IN THE TONGUE
>TO PUT THE LACES THROUGH.  

Have a bootsmith put some male velcro (using appropriate adhesive) on the
outer face of the tongue.  This adds a bit of "grippyness" that when
the boot is tighted, helps keep the tongue in its place.

Is this what speaking in tongues is about?

--------------------------------------------------------------
Edward Beshore                     
Hewlett Packard Company            Voice:       (303) 350-4826
700 71st Avenue                    FAX:         (303) 350-4675
Greeley Colorado, 80634            email: edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com
--------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: USFS Backcountry Fees
Date: 17 Nov 1992 14:01:41 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

I have just seen a news report on a proposal to charge user fees for
backpacking and hiking use of the National Forests.  My first
response was negative.  However, to say that the money collected
would be used to replace logging revenues.  The implication was that
for every $1 collected from backpackers there would be $1 less in
timber sales.  If this is true I would be inclined to change my
view.

Does anyone have more information on this proposal?  If it would
really reduce logging and new logging roads, I think a lot of people
would be very interested.

Marc Whitney
as.msw@FORSYTHE.stanford.edu
From: dyurman@igc.apc.org (Dan Yurman)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: KILL THE BEARTOOTHS!
Date: 20 Nov 92 11:12:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:gf2y_oa00WB60mm0sI@andrew.cmu.ed:-756944167:cdp:1449600052:000:463
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dyurman    Nov 20 03:12:00 1992


If you would like more verbal ammunition, and less dynamite,
e.g. virtual versus physical explosive power, I suggest contacting
the Greater Yellowstone Coalition, Po Box 1874, Boseman, MT 406-
586-1593.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Yurman            | dyurman@igc.apc.org | Chance favors only
PO Box 1569           | MCI Mail: 364-1277  | the prepared mind.
Idaho Falls, ID 83403 | 43N28 112W02 -7 GMT | -- Louis Pasteur
From: wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Long-term cave exploration - waste disposal?
Date: 19 Nov 1992 13:07:31 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

The other night, the local PBS station showed a National Geographic Special
on cave exploration. One particular subject of the program was a long-term
(like a week or longer) expedition into a cave near to Carlsbad. During
the expedition, the purity and fagility of this cave environment was
emphasized, and the explorers were shown using the water in the cave 
right from the pools for cooking and drinking, and illustrated the special
efforts they took to avoid harming the cave formations, such as switching
from boots to a sort of wading slipper to avoid damaging certain rock
(flowstone) formations when walking over them. 

But one aspect was completely avoided, and I wonder what people on this
group can tell me about it: waste disposal during this long-term
exploration. It's not like wilderness -- you can't dig a hole somewhere
for a latrine, or find a "safe" spot to urinate. I would at first
assume they had some sort of chemical toilet facility, like astronaut
waste bags or something, to use and then pack out all the waste, but
the show DID address the difficulty of getting their backpacks through
the winding maze of passageways on the way in, and it sure seemed to me
that they just simply could not pack out all the waste water generated
by this multi-person team over a week-plus period. (They didn't have to
pack *in* water, since they could use the cave water, so they'd have a
vast amount greater weight to pack *out* if they had to bring out all
the waste water.) [I wouldn't think they'd even have containers to hold
it all!]

So how did they manage?

Please send responses by e-mail to one of the addresses below. Thanks!

Regards, Will
wmartin@st-louis-emh2.army.mil OR wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: brant@seq.uncwil.edu (AT-Dreamer)
Subject: Re: The overpopulation problem. NOT!
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:39:02 GMT


We can all agree that population can not continue to rise
forever if the same amount of habitat for us humans exists.
Barring the notion of leaving the planet for a second, what is
one to do.  Since farmable (food producing) land is really shrinking
in size (granted we are getting a better yield with the use of
chemicals, but for how long? Look at the "Green Revolution")
and every body is not living at an acceptable level, I would
suggest that until you can prove to me that we NEED more people
we try to stablize population and feed and cloth the poeple that
do exist rather that bring in more people to compete for the
resources we have, but seem not to be enough.  How could one
argue for more people, except for religious reasons which seem
a little out of date.  As for the back country places on the east
coast are for the most part very crowded.  In winter it is not to bad
(except when the bear hunter are out, then run for your lives and
wear a big orange suit :-)) But I agree there is a lot of wilderness
around the globe, but it is shrinking fast.  And wilderness like
in canada may be great for a hiking trip but not for supporting
life.

		Just a Couple of Thoughts,  Chuck B.
-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "What doesn't kill us makes us stronger"  Spoken by many A.T. hikers         |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: uvfowl@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Vicki J. Fowler)
Subject: Re: Warm clothing while hiking
Summary: layering
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:22:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.191823.1274@ole.cdac.com>, ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>  I need some recommendations for clothing while hiking in cool/cold/chilly 
> weather.  I find that I warm up quite a bit soon after I start walking and
> it becomes uncomfortable to keep the same clothes on. On the other hand, the
> moment I stop for a break, within 10 min or so, I get chilled to the bone!
> 
>  What do you wear when it gets cold?  Also, wearing all this bulky layering
> clothing is not comfortable, and restricts movement. What happens if it is
> raining? This is the Pacific NW, and everything you read about the rains
> here is true :-)
> 
I agree that layering is the only way to go, even though it can be
a bit uncomfortable and not as easy as summer hiking. I like to get by
with the least number of layers in the daytime.....maybe lightweight
long underwear, a flannel shirt, and a wool sweater. I carry my
lightweight raingear and have it handy just in case it rains...its the
same raingear I use in the summer. As soon as the sun gets low, I know
the temperature is going to drop drastically, so I begin to get ready
for the colder temps by putting on my homemade vapor barrior vest
(made of a large garbage bag with holes for the head and arms)...this
goes either next to my skin or over the long underwear. I add another
layer of midweight long underwear, then a flannel shirt, wool sweater,
an additional shell, and if its really getting cold, my thinsulate
parka. This is what I often sleep in, too (I get cold very easily).

At any rate, I think the advice that someone else gave about being
chilly when you start off is really good. You will warm up very fast.
My breaks are short, usually less than 10 minutes, so that I will not
get chilled and have to go through the putting on, taking off routine.
Its not until I have set up camp for the night that I slow down my
activity and think about putting on more.

I think a lot of trial and error will help, to see what works best
for you.
vicki
-- 
"Here's looking at you, kid."
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: The overpopulation problem. NOT!
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 00:21:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.123756.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu>
cvakgaaq@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:
>> -Wayne Trzyna
>	Who gave you title to your "favorite" bit of backcountry? I'll bet
>someone else claims you ruined it when you came along and used it.

>The last time I looked, the "National" lands existed for the "enjoyment of all
>Americans", or are you more American than others? Or do you just enjoy it more?
>Or do you just enjoy it better? What special oil was placed on your brow which
>makes the universe brighter around you? Can I lick your feet? 

More American?  All?  Are you also laying claim to "unborn generations?"
Just want the clarification.  Lick Wayne's feet?

To which a follow up note gets:

>        Racist. The Japanese are some of the finest people on Earth and the
>most efficient; they will inherit the mantle of Western Civilization as
>Americareverts to tribalism, mysticism, and self-denigration.

>	Please forgive us, O Ecofuhrers, for wanting to do anything you don't
>like. Can I please just exist?
>
>	Austin Moseley
>--"The Earth is just an apparatus for human ambitions."

Austin--
I just had to laugh when I saw these posts.  YOU?  calling Wayne racist?
That has to be one of the funniest claims I have ever seen posted.
So you are back and from yet another host this time.  Are you attempting
to play the Lone Ranger by declaring Wayne racist?  Well sorry Kemo Sabe,
you aren't a Clayton Moore.

Oh, and BTW, the Earth revolves around the Sun and not vice versa.

Have at him, Wayne.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  No interest in being Jay Silverheels
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC)
Subject: Re: Abbey bashing.  Was: Trip rpt: SE Utah 4wd vacation, part 3/4
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:30:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.140235.29055@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mpb@troy.cc.bellcore.com (bunz,marcus p) writes:
> If I'm not mistaken, the population of the US has been
> flat or declining slightly, if you exclude emigrants. 

 
This always seems like kind of a funny statement to me.
With this logic, isn't the population of the U.S. zero?
All humans in the  Americas are here as a result, directly and
indirectly,  of emigration (even the "Native Americans"
emigrated from Euroasian continent 10,000 years ago).
 
The world population is GROWING (this is net: births minus deaths)
about 100 million per year.   This is like the population of 10 Los Angles
or Mexico Cities.

Although I forget the numbers, the U.S. population is  pretty fast
for me at least.  I thinks it's doubled since I've been alive 
(from 130 million around 1960 to around 260 million today).

The little California town I was born grew up in (Visilia, near Sequoia N.P.), 
at the time, had a population of about 30,000.  
Today it's near 100,000, and climbing like a bullet 
(mostly from people fleeing from the urban decay in the big cities).

John S. Watson, Civil Servent from Hell          ARPA: watson@ames.arc.nasa.gov
HOMEBREW NAKED! --- Ursus cerevisiae nudium  (The Bare Beer Bear)

#include <stddsclm.h>
From: rah@public.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Multiplying in the Backcountry (kids/population)
Date: 19 Nov 92 03:07:33 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. For info contact: info@BTR.COM

I try to multiply in the backcountry... often  :-)


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Richard Hyde  |  RaH@btr.com  |    This space intentionally left blank   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Alimeter Watches (Update)
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:44:14 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Nov17.072826.7904@sol.UVic.CA> dmanke@sanjuan (Dennis Manke) writes:

>If anyone has a new one and has any gripes could you let me know as I'll
>probably be buying my Christmas present in a few days (thanks in advance).

I don't have the new one but will issue a word of warning.  Since it
measures temperature one would assume the altitude function is
temperature compensated.  Not so!  A friend wore his into the sauna
and found an immediate change in altitude of 300 feet!

What a shame.  It shouldn't be too hard to use the temperature
reading to at least approximate a temperature compensated altitude.
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:9157 sci.environment:12965 talk.environment:4734 alt.wolves:249
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,sci.environment,talk.environment,alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Alaska to shoot hundreds of wolves/ Milankovitch Cycle
From: cvakgaaq@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Date: 23 Nov 92 12:07:09 PST
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvakgaaq

In article <1ek28iINNc0s@hpscdf.scd.hp.com>, sommer@scd.hp.com (Jeremy Sommer) writes:
> cvakgaaq@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu wrote:
> :...
> : 	The funny thing about this is that in the next few centuries the
> : populations in the North will decrease because the treeline is rapidly moving
> : south in response to Global cooling caused by the Milankovitch cycle. The
>                                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	Milankovitch was a Serbian mathematician who showed that because the
Earth's orbit is elleptical and the Earth has an Axial tilt, and wobbles about
the axis, then there are variations over periods of thousands of years in the
amount of solar radiation striking the Earth's surface during the seasons.
	For the Northern Hemisphere, the variations are from a hot summmer
and a cold winter to a mild summer and a mild winter. When the summers are 
mild, then less snow melts than falls in the winter; the glaciers grow,etc.
	The other key to the Ice Age is Plate tectonics. Normally ocean
currents carry warm water from the equator to the poles. the poles are 
currently blocked by land masses, so there is no heat transfer at all.
	
	The Milankovitch cycle fits the paloebiological record for temperature
changes very well. 

	You can see the Milankovitch Cycle driving temperature changes if 
you live near tyhe mountains or in Canada. Locate the treeline. Notice the
absence of seedlings. Only mature specimens. I we were getting warmer, the
treelines would show growth; but they don't. Anyone can see this with 
thweir own eyes, they don't need special equipment. You don't even need the
absolute treeline--just find the treelinf for a specific species.

	Global warming is a lie.

	The book to read is called Ice Ages by J and K Imbries. Its easily
available at most libraries. Its a real good read. See alsos the books by EC
Peilou, the canadian naturalist.

-Austin Moseley