From: kolbjc@infonode.ingr.com (Chris Kolb)
Subject: Re: 85 Nighthawk 650S Recomendation sought
Summary: wrong!!!
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:02:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.144337.25568@webo.dg.com>, x1sdup@emav118.rtp.dg.com (Stephen Dupre) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Jul16.184901.6464@webo.dg.com> x1sdup@emav118.rtp.dg.com (Stephen Dupre) writes:
> >The Nighthawk of this year is one of Honda most maintenance free
> >bikes.  Honda also came out with a Nighthawk 700 that was buzzier
> >than the 650.  (the 650 only turns 3950 at 60mph - much less than
> >any bike of that size or the 700).  The shaft drive and maintenance free 
> >valvetrain....
> 
> This brings up a question that has been bugging me for a long time.  When
> I first started looking at buying a bike, in the 85-86 timeframe, I was
> reading a lot of the magazines and looking at model lineups, reviews, etc.
> Everyone and their brother was gushing over the Nighthawk 700, and I
> remember seeing ads and writeups and summaries about this wonderful bike.
> (If I had been looking for a *new* bike, I probably would have bought one.
> Come to think of it, I probably should have... :-)  I also remember noticing
> the Nighthawk 450, which was (I believe) a twin with a chain drive.
> 
> Later, (years later), when perusing the used bike ads, I've seen ads for
> the 650 Nighthawk of the same general vintage.  My questions:
> 
> 1) why on earth did Honda market 2 bikes at the same time that were so
>    closely matched in style and size?
> 2) why weren't the 650's heavily advertised or reviewed?
> 3) what, exactly, are the differences between the 650 and 700 Nighthawks
>    from the 84-86 era (besides 50cc)?
> 
> Answer 1)  This was during years the Fed was trying to help a struggling
> Harley Davidson get back into the "over 750 cc" market by putting tariffs
> on Japanese bikes over 750 cc.  This prompted all the manufacturers to 
> come out with their 700 cc models.   With Honda having 2 competing bikes,
> it chose (I think wrongly) to drop the 650 since it wouldn't "measure up"
> with the other 700 cc bikes from other manufacturers.  In the end, I believe
> the 650 was/is a far superior bike although there is nothing technically 
> "wrong" with the 700.
> 
> Answer 2)  I believe they were reviewed favorably.  Honda promotes it's higher
> selling models and sometimes doesn't promote it's better models.  I believe
> the 650 price was around $3298.  I think you could get a V65 Sabre or Magna
> for about $3895 those years ('84 or '85).  They sold a lot of 'um.
> 
> Answer 3)  Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the engines were different. 
> Not merely "bored out" and I believe the 700 was a 5 speed where the 650
> was a 6-speed.  Also, if I'm not mistaken, the 700 is a chain drive vs a
> shaftie for the 650.  The 700 was trying to compete with other 700's that
> were chain drive.  Maybe Honda thought shaft drives cost too much to justify
> against other vendors' offerings.  The 5-speed gearing on the 700 accounted
> for the "around 4300-4500 rpm at 60mph" vs the 3950 rpm of the 650.  
> Ergonomically, I believe the 700 is slightly bigger with a longer
> seat.  I remember Cycle doing a comparison so check your library.  
> 
> For any beginner, I'd go with a shaft drive anytime.  Less of a mess to
> clean up, etc.  Other good makes that were shaft below.  All were air-cooled.
> These bikes have flat seats and decent ergonomics for longer trips.
> Obviously, they reflect my own biases.  I've tried to indicate prices too.
> BTW, the Yamaha probably is the closest to catching the Nighthawk in 
> performance through the Seca was more of a "standard" bike.
> 
> 
 

Sure, I'll correct you! I had a 450 and a 700S and to start I have never
seen a lemon of a Nighthawk and that is why Honda brought it back, can
you say ace in the hole!

The 700S was a 6 speed shaft drive with one of the most "shaft lash" free
systems out at the time. It was my first shaft and I never knew I had one
except for no mess. It had hydraulic valves, cam chain, and of course 
the same for the clutch and front breaks. It has a small oil cooler and 
the oil is pumped through the frame to help cool it. It held 4.2 in gas
and a dry weight of 474lbs. I put 44K on mine and it never put me walking,
to be honest nothing ever broke but the little digital gear indicator. I
took very good care of it but I also gave it living HELL!

Honda has put out a 250  2 cylinder
                    450  2 cylinder
                    550
                    650
                    700
                    750 old one and new one (wonder how the stats differ)

I recommend any of the smaller nighthawks to any newbie. I recently rode
an older 650 and it was the most rider friendly bike I have ever ridden,
it felt like the 450 I had. I will admit I don't think any of the night
hawks have ever been famous for there speed, just good strong long last-  
ing motorcycles.

KOLB