HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: popelka@ody2.uchicago.edu (Glenn Popelka)
Subject: Re: MPS PLAN HIRES THE WRONG WORKERS
Organization: University of Chicago  LASR
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:59:29 GMT
Distribution: milw
X-Posted-From: ody2.uchicago.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) writes:

 >I have been told that paying children for learning is bribery. Bribery,
 >however, involves a powerful person inducing another to behave in ways
 >that violate the latter's self-interest.

From 'The New (1992) Websters Dictonary':

Bribe 1. (n) a secret gift (usually of money) offered to a person in a
         position of trust, e.g. a public servant, to persuade him to
         turn his power to the advantage of the person offering the gift
         || any enticement meant to condition behaviour.

It would be a bribe. But I'm not sure that I have a problem with that. We
would have to wait until the practice became widespread to understand the
real effects of such a program. I suspect it might be worthwhile as a method
to at least get them (underpriviledged, unmotivated kids) though high school.

I remember rushing down to the local McDonalds with my grade school report
cards and filling up on free cheeseburgers, one for each A. What ever
happened to that? My fifth grade son regularly comes home with free pizza
coupons from 'Pizza Hut' for the extra books he reads. Perhaps some local
franchises could be persuaded to start something similar in Milwaukee.

It might also be wise for the school to be involved in some way to see that
at least part of the money gets put in some kind of school administered bank
and have withdrawals controlled in some way. I recall the recent 'Christmas
Party' at a Cabrini Green school where parent 'volunteers' stole childrens'
presents donated by Montgomery Wards, and were later seen selling them on
the streets.


glenn  

(UWM alum, BA Math 84)

|Glenn Popelka               | popelka@ody2.uchicago.edu
|Sr. Programmer/Analyst      |   
|University of Chicago       | 933 East 56th Street
|Laboratory for Astrophysics | Chicago, IL 60637-1460
|    and Space Research      | (312) 702-7803
From: thelma@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Thelma Lubkin)
Newsgroups: milw.general
Subject: test
Date: 10 Jan 1993 04:29:39 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4



test.
From: ddean@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Dorothy Dean)
Newsgroups: milw.general
Subject: re: Milwaukee BBS list
Date: 5 Jan 1993 03:06:36 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4


Newsgroups: milw.general
From: Dean.Roth <Dean.Roth@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Internet options: Sprint
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 14:52:32 GMT


Quoted from "Data Communications," Jan. 1993.

Quote On

Third, Sprint will offer asynchronous dial-up access through
Sprint's X.25 service. And finally, Sprint will offer asynchronous
Internet access via toll-free dial-up lines. Both dial-up options
are slated to be available later this spring. Async X.25 dial-up
doesn't require a TCP/IP protocol stack on the end-user's machine;
it's an approach best suited to connecting stand-alone PCs rather
than LANs. The toll-free access line requires the PC to run a
protocol such as serial-line IP (SLIP) or the point-to-point
protocol (PPP).

Quote Off


No prices were given in the article. Don't bother calling Milwaukee's
Sprint office - I've tried 3 times and have not reached anyone who
knows anything about Sprint's data services, nor has anyone returned
my calls as promised by the local office.

One interpretation of the "async X.25 dial-up" service is that Sprint
is going into the BBS business, since your computer will not need
to run TCP/IP.

Dean
From: rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller)
Newsgroups: milw.general
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Area BBS List ... Updated
Date: 5 Jan 1993 14:43:57 GMT
Organization: Just me.
Distribution: wi
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

uuvvuu@mixcom.com (Craig Stodolenak) writes:
>alumn123@whscdp.whs.edu writes:
>
>>|Over The Edge...........|???-????|1-3|24 hours|MBBS....|Chat
>
>As a point of interest:  Out of the hundered-and-some systems listed,
>only one is included without a number.  This system in question happens
>to be one which the person who maintains the list used to be on, until he
>had differences with the operators.  This system in question also happens
>to be the major competitor to a system that the person who maintains the
>list is a representative for.
>
>Oversight, or BBS politics?  You decide.

*VERY* interesting!  Sounds more like BBS *BACKSTABBING* to me.

Talk about *childish*...   I've been out of the BBS scene since I got
UNIX-ized at the U. of WI (Milwaukee) about six years ago, but I remember
all the petty disputes.  I s'pose some of them might even think that sort
of bickering is *fun*, but *I* sure don't.

Evidently, the publisher of that list doesn't have enough confidence in
his/her own abilities, nor in the attractiveness of their BBS, to risk
informing the users that there *might* be a better BBS out there somewhere.

If competition is that stiff, maybe one (or both) of the BBSs should try to
do something *UNIQUE* for a change, since they're both probably offereing
exactly the same services anyway!  All it will take is a *difference*.

Rick Miller   <rick@ee.uwm.edu> | <rick@discus.mil.wi.us>   Ricxjo Muelisto
Occupation:  Husband, Father, WEPCo. WAN Mgr., Discus Sys0p, and  Linux fan
From: pkosidow@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul G Kosidowski)
Newsgroups: uwm.general,milw.general
Subject: Re: MPS PLAN HIRES THE WRONG WORKERS
Date: 12 Jan 1993 21:43:56 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: milw
Reply-To: pkosidow@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: pkosidow@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

>>The parochial schools produce better educated children than do the
>>public schools -- generally without resorting to expensive schemes like
>>paying children for learning.  Moreover, they do so at a lower cost per
>>student.  In other words, the parochial schools provide better education
>>for less money.
> 
  No doubt!!  The parochial schools teach the children who have parents who
  are most interested in education.  With better social conditions at home to
  promote learning, there are simply better students at private schools.
  Under a school choice system, the best schools will skim off the best
  child/parents.  These schools, of course, will be able to charge more too.
  Compare the tuition in the lower grades at the University School (~$5000)
  with those of another private school that does not have such a positive
  track record . . . The Woodland's School (~$2,500).

   Marshall

I totally agree. The mythical success of private schools is the result
of WHO goes there, not what happens to them once they get there. 
If you want an accurate picture of the challenges facing public education
today, and the pitiful resourses that are allocated to meet that challenge,
I suggest reading Jonathan Kozol's Savage Inequalities. You also might want
to look at the Milwaukee Journal article from 3 months ago that showed the
comparative per capita spending of various city schools. Schools in better
neighborhoods spend up to 3 and 4 times per pupil than those in the inner
city. The constant rhetoric of blame--"it's the kids or families fault that
they're not getting an education"--is simply a way to ignore a problem that
we all bear some responsibility for.

Paul Kosidowski
Modern Studies
Univ of Wisconsin Milwaukee.
Newsgroups: uwm.general,milw.general
From: daniel.offutt <daniel.offutt@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Re: MPS PLAN HIRES THE WRONG WORKERS
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: milw
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:09:53 GMT

In <1iplreINNl0h@uwm.edu> dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) writes:


>                       MPS Plan Hires the Wrong Workers

>    What is the single factor that could most enhance the performance of
>    children in the Milwaukee Public Schools?  Our school superintendent,
>    school board, and many Milwaukeans say we must improve facilities.  I
>    say we must improve student motivation.

>...
>    Paying children for learning can provide requisite motivation.  Instead
>    of educating Milwaukeans about the virtues of paying children for
>    learning, however, MPS is educating us about the virtues of paying for
>    buildings.

>    Although other improvements should be made in our public schools, I
>    doubt that there is another, single, practicable approach that could
>    more enhance the quality of education.  Pay for learning promotes
>    relations between work and reward characteristic of responsible adult
>    life.  This work, unlike much adult work, will result in children
>    acquiring new capabilities, values, and perspectives.

>    MPS should have long ago presented a comprehensive plan to enhance
>    student motivation instead of one to construct more buildings. On Feb.
>    16 I will vote against the school facilities plan, because there are
>    far more cost-effective ways to enhance learning.

Indeed there are.  One way that may be even more cost effective than
paying students to learn is introducing greater competition into the
public school system. 

The parochial schools produce better educated children than do the
public schools -- generally without resorting to expensive schemes like
paying children for learning.  Moreover, they do so at a lower cost per
student.  In other words, the parochial schools provide better education
for less money.  Innumerable economists have attributed this difference
to the artificial suppression of competition between public schools. 
Thus a simple way to improve the quality of education provided by the
public schools would be to let each child's parents decide which school
the child will attend, among all the available public schools.  The
government funds would then follow the child to the school of his
parents' choice.  And every public school adminstrator would know that. 
Just as children respond to the presence or absence of monetary rewards,
so will public school administrators: Each WILL do what he has to to
attract students to his school.  That entails finding ways to improve
such things as standardized test scores among students at his school. 
And that entails better teaching. 

Dan Offutt
-- 
Dan Offutt
From: aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Steven J.)
Newsgroups: milw.general
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Area BBS List ... Updated
Date: 6 Jan 1993 20:22:01 GMT
Organization: The Other Side of the CPU
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.30

poohbear@solaria.mil.wi.us (Timothy Winslow) writes:

: Interesting to know that people are not up on their information.  The person
: doing the list no longer represents the "other" system you talk about.
: Please get your facts straight before accusing people of wrong doing.

It looks like Craig was just making an observation, to me.  Nothing to get
flamed for.  But then, what's Usenet for, eh?


Steve J. White
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions expressed herein are		   aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu
sometimes those of others.			     aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Newsgroups: milw.general
From: poohbear@solaria.mil.wi.us (Timothy Winslow)
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Area BBS List ... Updated
Organization: Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:58:32 GMT

In milw.general article <1993Jan05.035217.23774@mixcom.com>, uuvvuu@mixcom.com (Craig Stodolenak) wrote:
:alumn123@whscdp.whs.edu writes:
:
:>          |  |  Milwaukee Area (414) Bulletin Board Directory  | (|) | |
:>          |  |               Revision:  12.18.92               | (|) | |
:
:>|Over The Edge...........|???-????|1-3|24 hours|MBBS....|Chat                 |
:
:As a point of interest:  Out of the hundered-and-some systems listed,
:only one is included without a number.  This system in question happens
:to be one which the person who maintains the list used to be on, until he
:had differences with the operators.  This system in question also happens
:to be the major competitor to a system that the person who maintains the
:list is a representative for.
:
:Oversight, or BBS politics?  You decide.
:
:-- 
:Craig L. Stodolenak, Technopagan -- archon@mixcom.com

Interesting to know that people are not up on their information.  The person
doing the list no longer represents the "other" system you talk about.
Please get your facts straight before accusing people of wrong doing.

-- 
Weird Al is a God!					CO Life is for me!
       poohbear@solaria.mil.wi.us                  or 
                                    Timothy_Winslow@solaria.mil.wi.us
Life is strange, but so are you!			I like me!    :P
From: dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
Newsgroups: uwm.general,milw.general
Subject: Re: MPS PLAN HIRES THE WRONG WORKERS
Date: 12 Jan 1993 15:20:10 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: milw
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.30

In article <1993Jan12.010953.28946@mixcom.com> daniel.offutt <daniel.offutt@mixcom.mixcom.com> writes:
>In <1iplreINNl0h@uwm.edu> dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) writes:
>
>

>
>The parochial schools produce better educated children than do the
>public schools -- generally without resorting to expensive schemes like
>paying children for learning.  Moreover, they do so at a lower cost per
>student.  In other words, the parochial schools provide better education
>for less money.

 No doubt!!  The parochial schools teach the children who have parents who
 are most interested in education.  With better social conditions at home to
 promote learning, there are simply better students at private schools.
 Under a school choice system, the best schools will skim off the best
 child/parents.  These schools, of course, will be able to charge more too.
 Compare the tuition in the lower grades at the University School (~$5000)
 with those of another private school that does not have such a positive
 track record . . . The Woodland's School (~$2,500).

>Dan Offutt
>-- 
>Dan Offutt
>

  Marshall
From: uuvvuu@mixcom.com (Craig Stodolenak)
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Area BBS List ... Updated
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 05:49:31 GMT

poohbear@solaria.mil.wi.us (Timothy Winslow) writes:

>:>|Over The Edge...........|???-????|1-3|24 hours|MBBS....|Chat                 |
>:Oversight, or BBS politics?  You decide.

>Interesting to know that people are not up on their information.  The person
>doing the list no longer represents the "other" system you talk about.
>Please get your facts straight before accusing people of wrong doing.

I accused no one.  I merely raised a question.  Admittedly, I am in error
concerning his "official" position at this time, but I think that's
minor.

The fact still remains that OTE was the only system listed without a
phone number.  That alone is strange enough.  The additional information
is, well, sauce for the goose.

-- 
Craig L. Stodolenak, Technopagan -- archon@mixcom.com
Xref: sparky milw.general:424 milw.unix:58 wi.general:223
From: mort@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Martin Wiedmeyer)
Newsgroups: milw.general,milw.unix,wi.general
Subject: MUUG Monthly Meeting - Vendor Night
Date: 13 Jan 1993 00:33:38 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Department MSCS
Reply-To: mort@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Martin Wiedmeyer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: studsys.mscs.mu.edu
Originator: mort@studsys.mscs.mu.edu

   
                           Milwaukee UNIX Users Group
                            Monthly General Meeting
   
     *********************   NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE **********************
   
   The MUUG General meeting will NOT be held on the second Thursday of
   January!!
   
   In its place will be the Annual Vendor Night, which wiil be held on 
   Monday January 25,1993. Specifics will be posted as soon as they are
   finalized.
   
   Stay tuned!
   
   If you are a vendor interested in participating in Vendor Night,
   contact Terry Orlowski 383-3657 or 241-8001


--
Milwaukee UNIX Users Group              
-- 
Marty Wiedmeyer				mort@studsys.mscs.mu.edu
From: hahn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David James Hahn)
Newsgroups: milw.general
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Area BBS List ... Updated
Date: 8 Jan 1993 04:10:25 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: wi
Reply-To: hahn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: hahn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <1ic6rdINNmun@uwm.edu>, by rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller):
> uuvvuu@mixcom.com (Craig Stodolenak) writes:
>>alumn123@whscdp.whs.edu writes:
>>
>>>|Over The Edge...........|???-????|1-3|24 hours|MBBS....|Chat

I have nothing to say about this, just wanted to follow up...

It seems that at least 15-25% of the IBM bbs's on that list were
disconnected when I called.  I didn't count, just crossed  off the
list, but anyways, shouldn't they be  tested before posting a
supposed "updated" list?  Very frustrating ya know?

					David
-- 
David Hahn
University of Wisconsin : Milwaukee 
hahn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
From: corre@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Alan D Corre)
Newsgroups: uwm.general,milw.general
Subject: Re: MPS PLAN HIRES THE WRONG WORKERS
Date: 12 Jan 1993 10:30:14 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: milw
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1isv2bINN2rt@uwm.edu> callan@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>
>Funny how the state in it's wisdom decided to give more incentive to
>out-of-state students than it's native sons & daughters.
>
>Comments?

Joel Callan correctly points out an odd result of the
in-state/out-of-state thing.  But this is just one instance of the
follies that result from our archaic, out of date state/federal system
which was designed for a world totally different from ours.  Just
consider the fact that Mr. Keating has been tried twice for what are
essentially the same crimes to see the waste and inefficiency that
this causes.  Or consider our bizarre electoral college which was
instituted because the man (not woman!) in the street was deemed
unworthy to vote directly for a president! And do you know that UWM
has full time employes whose job it is to determine residency? Wouldnt
that money be better spent in hiring another teacher? I realise that people are
unwilling to tamper with the federal system because it seems to work
better than systems elsewhere in the world that are falling apart at
the seams. But we have to realise that so long as we insist on shoring
up a fundamentally problematic system we shall be faced with illogical
-- 
Alan D. Corre
Department of Hebrew Studies
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee                     (414) 229-4245
PO Box 413, Milwaukee, WI 53201               corre@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
From: aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Steven J.)
Newsgroups: milw.general
Subject: Re: Internet options: Sprint
Date: 8 Jan 1993 17:30:48 GMT
Organization: The Other Side of the CPU
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.30

Dean.Roth@mixcom.mixcom.com (Dean.Roth) writes:
: 
: One interpretation of the "async X.25 dial-up" service is that Sprint
: is going into the BBS business, since your computer will not need
: to run TCP/IP.

This sounds more like what they intend to do is have one do their news and
e-mail reading off-line, call into the 800 number and do some file transfers
of the respective news and mail batches, as opposed to a BBS per se.


Steve J. White
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions expressed herein are		   aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu
sometimes those of others.			     aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
From: callan@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Joel E Callan)
Newsgroups: uwm.general,milw.general
Subject: Re: MPS PLAN HIRES THE WRONG WORKERS
Date: 11 Jan 1993 23:15:23 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: milw
Reply-To: callan@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: callan@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <1is6prINNsu3@uwm.edu>, by dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer):

On a related topic, Marshall's notion should be applied for grad students,
and is to some extent (grants, fellowships, TA positions?)? However,
out-of-state students in effect earn more pay (tuition is usually lowered to
in-state costs for out-of-state students, but those grad students from
in-state get no "like" cost reduction in tuition costs).

Funny how the state in it's wisdom decided to give more incentive to
out-of-state students than it's native sons & daughters.

Comments?
-- 
  /`-_                   callan@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
 {     }/ Joel E Callan             Hey, why do you think I have the answer?
  \   ./  2909 N. 44th Street         May you sit on the tack of success
   |___|  Milwaukee, WI  53210        and rise to the occcasion!
Newsgroups: uwm.general,milw.general
From: daniel.offutt <daniel.offutt@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Re: MPS PLAN HIRES THE WRONG WORKERS
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: milw
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:04:29 GMT

In <1iu22tINNhq2@spool.mu.edu> marcr@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Marc Rassbach) writes:

>In article <1993Jan12.010953.28946@mixcom.com> daniel.offutt <daniel.offutt@mixcom.mixcom.com> writes:

>>Thus a simple way to improve the quality of education provided by the
>>public schools would be to let each child's parents decide which school
>>the child will attend, among all the available public schools.  The

>And how does this system address 'everyone' trying to put all their
>kids in 'the best school in Milw.?'  In a 'truly competative environment'
>one answers excessive demand with excessive price.

>Please address the situation of 'everyone' wanting to send their
>child to school X.

Well, if 'everyone' decides that Apple computers are the best personal
computers, that will simply permit Apple Corporation to grow.  It would
be the same for a good school.  Heavy demand for enrollment would create
a huge prospective cash flow for the good school, enabling it to obtain
financing for new buildings and staff. But let's cut to the crux of the
matter here.

Increasing competition in the education industry will not necessarily
yield the same quantity of benefit to every school child.  But it will
increase the average benefit across all school children -- by comparison
to what the present public school system yields.


-- 
Dan Offutt

Newsgroups: milw.general
From: uuvvuu@mixcom.com (Craig Stodolenak)
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Area BBS List ... Updated
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 03:52:17 GMT

alumn123@whscdp.whs.edu writes:

>          |  |  Milwaukee Area (414) Bulletin Board Directory  | (|) | |
>          |  |               Revision:  12.18.92               | (|) | |

>|Over The Edge...........|???-????|1-3|24 hours|MBBS....|Chat                 |

As a point of interest:  Out of the hundered-and-some systems listed,
only one is included without a number.  This system in question happens
to be one which the person who maintains the list used to be on, until he
had differences with the operators.  This system in question also happens
to be the major competitor to a system that the person who maintains the
list is a representative for.

Oversight, or BBS politics?  You decide.

-- 
Craig L. Stodolenak, Technopagan -- archon@mixcom.com
From: lmeissne@carson.u.washington.edu (Loren Meissner)
Newsgroups: pnw.motss,soc.motss
Subject: IN THE LIFE (Seattle/Tacoma)
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:48:03 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

 
 
 
The Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual
interest program IN THE LIFE will finally be seen in the Puget Sound Area
on KBTC Channel 28 Tacoma (TCI Cable Channel 33) Tuesday Jan 5 9:30-10PM.
NO repeats are scheduled and as far as I know, Channel 9 Seattle is still
refusing to carry the show, so plan now to watch. Thanks.  P.S. This is a
monthly series. If you like the show, please consider writing Channel 28
to express appreciation. Thanks.
 
Xref: sparky pnw.motss:110 soc.motss:55874