From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Living in a State of Siege
X-To: DIANE
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:02:00 GMT

Diane writes...
>dgross@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Dave Gross) writes:

>>        "We men" are surrounded by violence from our circumcision in infancy
>>(no anaesthesia, thank you) to being bullied in elementary school; from trying
>>out for the football team in high school to registering for the draft; from
>>being several times more likely than our sisters to be murdered to watching
>>boxing on television; from visiting Arlington National Cemetery to running our
>>fingers along the Vietnam War Memorial.
>>
>Just a few questions/answers:

>1) Who are the major proponents of circumcision?
>- Doctors, the mojority of which are still men.
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This doesn't entirely follow, Diane.  If you're trying to argue from the
premise that most doctors support circumcision, to the conclusion that
therefore most people who support circumcision are men, then you are
drawing a false inference.

Indeed, this is called the fallacy of composition.  You are trying to
infer that because the majority of male doctors support circumcision,
that most men in the general population would support it.  A similar,
though converse fallacy, which I once experienced, happened when a
supporter of the University of Toronto Women's Centre, spoke to a meeting
of the Students' Administrative Council and said "One in four men in
society is a rapist [Actually, this isn't true, either], so look around
you, you men, ONE IN FOUR OF YOU IS A RAPIST!  WHICH OF YOU MEN ARE
RAPISTS?"  The mistake here, was using a "statistic" of society at large,
and using it to apply to a small group.


>3) Who tries out for football teams?
>- boys/ men

What!  Are you denying that there are women's football teams?


>4) Who legislated draft registration?
>- legislative bodies which are comprised overwhelmingly of men

This is the fallacy of composition again, Diane.  Just because the
legislative bodies are largely composed of men, does *not* mean that
the majority of men in the general population, support a men-only
draft.  Indeed, one of Phyllis Schafly's arguments against the ERA
was that it would mean that women might end up getting drafted!


>8) Who sent our brothers/fathers/husbands to Viet Nam?
>- Men

Yes, but these were men WORKING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION that women's lives
are "more valuable" than men's lives, and are less expendible than
men's lives.


>Are you seeing a trend here? If there's a problem with violence, it looks
>suspiciously like a male-problem that women are supposed to just put up with,
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hmmm...I didn't see you asking who commits almost the same amount of
spousal abuse as husbands?  See statistics from Dr. Eugene Lupri, the
same person who discovered the "1 in 5 wives are abused" statistic,
but who also discovered that a similar number of wives had also admitted
to using violence against their husbands.  Naturally, only the first
half of his statistics got any attention.  Also making things worse,
is the fact that male violence towards wives is 7 times more likely to
require hospitalisation than vice-versa, which also makes sure that the
problem goes unnoticed.

However, for you to argue that violence is a male-only phenomenon, is
somewhat misplaced.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Gravity: It's more than just a fragrance.  It's the LAW!"
   - Will Steeves, President, GOiDS "R" We, Inc.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Can a blue man sing the whites?
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