From: randy@megatek.com (Randy Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: XLH vs Big Twin
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:20:18 GMT
Reply-To: randy@megatek.com
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

In article <1992Nov20.193016.9997@Pacesetter.COM> lynn@pacesetter.com (Lynn E. Hall) writes:
| "Cheap horsepower" is is not. Yess, I run NOS on my XR1000 just for kicks
|and its the one way to boost when you need it without having it on all the
|time.

  I dragged-race a NOS equipped Harley once (very pretty bike, too).  I beat
it, too, although not by a lot (about two bike-lengths).  Kind of interesting
the difference in investment between the two bikes for him to still lose - he
had at least double the investment that I had (mine is bone stock - this was
before my $50 sprocket change), and he was trying to make it into a dragster,
I guess.  More power to him...  I'm sure a properly-setup NOS Harley can
out-accelerate my bike, despite the bad showing of this one wannabe racer,
and I am just as sure mine could waste any Harley if I chose to abuse my
engine with NOS.  Whatever trips your trigger...

| Patriotism - yeah. I'm a native American.

  Define "native American", Lynn.  That term is usually indicative of
someone with American Indian heritage (of which even I have a part).  If you
are not 100% Indian, then your comment is a complete lie.

| I don't sell out for the latest UJM crap.

  Right, you buy Harley crap, then try to make it into something it won't ever
successfully be...  A posting I read right before this one, also by you,
touched on the amount of modifications (pistons, etc), that YOU said you have
to perform on a Harley, since, according to *you*: "Cast pistons are fine for
stock bikes that your grandmother rides ;@)."  What a load of crock...  If you
would buy a bike that is made for the purpose you are putting it to, you
wouldn't have to replace the whole inside of the engine to make it into
something decent.  You put NOS on a HARLEY??  To each his own, but to justify
idiocy like this under the patriotism banner is interesting logic, to say the
least.

  You blew the top ring land on your XR1000 "racing a Gold Wing in Sturgis"???
A GOLD WING???  Does it give you a great feeling of accomplishment to race a
HUGE TOURING bike (probably stock, too)...  It would be real interesting to
see you race a bike designed for speed and acceleration...  Typical competition
I would expect from you, though.  Did you brag about beating that "Japanese
piece of trash" to your friends?  Thought so...

| Its sad but many from my generation died for your right to choose.

  In what way?  HOW did *your* generation die for my right to choose?  By
fighting in Vietnam or Korea?  OR World War II or I?

  And, why is that sad?  Are you so sure that *my* generation is NOT your
generation, or are you making some false assumptions that I am decades younger
than you, just because I happen to have a different idea about what is the best
motorcycle for me?  For that matter, my father served in the armed forces and
retired a colonel.  He has no criticism of my choices.  What gives *you* the
right to criticise them?  Your implied superiority in judging *my* choices as
inferior to yours just proves that you are a jerk.

  And, while on this subject, I know of a number of Vets that also approve
of my choice.  They DID fight for my right to choose.  What makes you better
than them, to *disapprove* of the choice I made?

| So I guess I'm out-of -touch. I prefer that to selling out.

  That's a nice euphemism to justify putting your head in the sand and being
stupid.  That kind of attitude WILL destroy this country.  If you are so high
and mighty with your patriotism, why don't YOU start a company to build a
competitive sport motorcycle instead of criticising those of us that don't
want to put up with crap?  Eric Buell has the right idea, he just needs
to build them more powerful and cheaper to get into the running (perhaps a
different engine might help).  Why don't you get off your high-horse and HELP?
Especially if you know so much about "high power HARLEY motorcycles".

| So what does that make them? Did you ever look at the economic situtation
|and wonder how it got there?

  Yes, HAVE YOU?

| By the way - a Harley is well over 90% AMERICAN. The PROFITS stay here. 

  90% means the profits STAY HERE???  You sure do have an interesting idea
of absolutes.  I guess the other 10% (actually, its more like 15%) just
EVAPORATES??

  Guess again - No profits from ANY corporation, American or otherwise, "stay
here" 100%.  Sure, I bought a bike that is manufactured by a Japanese
corporation who pays Americans to build it, and my taxes on it are paid to
various U.S. governments.  I will grant you that some percentage more of the
cash I paid for my bike went overseas, than if I bought a Harley.  So?  You
are supporting foreign businesses in so many ways its laughable, yet you
have the idiocy and audacity to bitch and moan about ME buying a Japanese
motorcycle?

  If Harley or ANY American company made a bike that could compete with the
bike I now own, I would buy it.  Harley sticking their head in the sand (like
you) and failing to get into the highly competitive sport-bike market is no
justification for me to accept a product that is inferior for my needs.  Its
been bandied about that it would be a mistake for Harley to get into the
market, just because it IS so competitive - that is admitting defeat, to me,
and it also gains me no respect for the company.  Harley doesn't deserve
*my* money.

  If you want to get on the supposed patriotism bandwagon and support inferior
products, and that makes sense to you, go for it - but that is NO way to
strengthen the American economy - by supporting lagging industries.  I would
support a domestic manufacturer of a competitive sport bike.  Too bad one
doesn't exist.  (Not even Buell - I respect his efforts, but the bikes ain't
competitive, especially for the double-pricetag).  You are the one that
supposedly is into powerful motorcycles that prefers supporting ONLY
Americans - so what is YOUR excuse?

| I only know about high power HARLEY motorcycles. Could give a shit about
|the rest of the UJM's.

  I.e., then you know VERY little, if anything, since "high power HARLEY
motorcycles" is presently a complete contradiction in terms - if there is a
high power motorcycle with the Harley nameplate on it, it ain't a Harley,
rather it is what someone has made at home using a Harley engine and frame
as a STARTING point, and an inferior one at that, from a power standpoint.
Don't worry, you can come out and confess your ignorance about performance
*motorcycles* - we won't laugh at you (too much).

  I know of a number of people that have taken Japanese sport bikes, and
reworked their engines (using alot of American parts, even) to make even more
power, and otherwise improve them (a 165 bhp totally streetable GSXR1100 a
friend has is a good example).  So, do THEY deserver the derision that
you heap on those that don't ride Harleys?  What if they could prove to YOU
that they have invested more in American industry with their modifications
than you ever have?

  No, it won't usually make any difference - the Harley brand snobbery just
uses the "made in America" excuse as just THAT - an excuse - most of the time.
If you don't ride a Harley, you aren't a member of OUR CLUB, OUR newsgroup,
etc...  What a bunch of ignorant little kids SOME of the Harley riders are...
Looks like you fall into that group, Lynn...

| I won't go into length about your comments about 'colors' but I posted
|this so everyone on the net will be aware. Its serious shit!

  I do beleive I did take it seriously, for L.A.  L.A. ain't the world, thank
God.  Yeah, outlaws exist everywhere, even down here in San Diego, yet they
aren't as powerful as you have let them become in L.A.  I normally ride around
1500 miles a month, and have yet to be confronted by one of your outlaws.
Sure, it could happen, anywhere, and I might even successfully defend myself...
Stranger things could happen.

| I don't care
|if you live in Mule Creek Junction, Wyoming - outlaws are everywhere and
|they take this serious.

  Sometimes (normally?) outlaws aren't very bright, either.  Nor are they the
only ones that can defend themselves, despite the best efforts of our
(American) legislators.

| You can laugh it off if you want, justify your
|position, etc, etc but when you are confronted by an outlaw your opinion
|won't be worth much.

  It would be worth just as much as yours, Lynn...

| If you take a look at the various patches there are
|MAJOR rules to be followed.

  Interesting - did I ever say I was displaying a patch?  Like a lot of people
reading the motorcycles newsgroups, you also seem to have the reading
comprehension of a lump of clay.  Your comments WERE taken seriously by me,
for L.A., which, admit it, is your primary area of expertise.  Most outlaws
elsewhere aren't that stupid, I guess.

|  I've seen a patch pulled and its not a nice sight. Minor things like the
|color and shape of the lettering could get you shot. Anyway do what you
|will but being forewarned is forearmed. Here in the L.A. Zoo, wearing a
|Kings (hockey) or Raiders clothing could get you killed in the wrong area.
|I know it sucks but ... 

  I've ridden in L.A.  More than once.  I've not been attacked, yet, although
a certain domestic-bike rider once loudly criticised my piece of japanese
trash, even though the label clearly belonged more appropriately to his own
mode of transportation.  I'm used to the idiocy of certain Harley riders and
their moral superiority for riding the "politically correct" machine for
America, and all it does is engender a hostility from me.

  However, despite my trash mode of transportation while in L.A., I haven't
been called upon to defend myself, something I am normally ready to do,
especially while in L.A.  If I was beset by a gang, I would probably be in
trouble (unless they were riding Harley's :-) - however, I don't make ANY
statements, political, sports-related, etc. with my clothing (unless wearing
leather while riding is misconstrued to mean something), something I said in
my first posting, if you cared to notice.

|                       Lynn Hall - NOS Bros

  Yup, lots of experience with high-power motorcycles, there.

Enjoy L.A., Lynn, you deserve it...

Randy Davis                            Email: randy@megatek.com
ZX-11 #00072 Pilot                            megatek!randy@uunet.uu.net
DoD #0013                                     ucsd!megatek!randy
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley,rec.motorcycles