HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: casale@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Michael Casale)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Double Exposure and Ace-Side Count
Keywords: Double Exposure,Ace-Side Count
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:04:40 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Hi there,
	I've just recently stumbled onto this group and its incredible
amount of gambling information.  It's been really helpful and the FAQ is
great.  However I have a few questions.

First, Tropworld is offering Double Exposure blackjack (as you probably know)
where the hole card is shown.  However dealer wins ties.  I imagine with
this kind of rule change, the casino is still coming out ahead so regular
basic strategy can't be used.  What would be the proper strategy to use and
what would be a good counting system?  Is Double exposure with the proper
system anymore or less profitable than regular A.C. blackjack?  Or should
I just forget about it?

Second,  I've been gambling for about three years now using basic strategy,
and  High-Low for counting.  I've done okay, especially when I team up
with others to increase my bet size and reduce my variance.  But I'm looking
to improve.  A friend of mine uses Hi-Opt1 with an Ace side count.  He 
says the Ace side count really helps with the shoes in A.C.  But the FAQ 
doesn't seem to show a real advantage using Hi-Opt with the side count over
plain old Hi-Low.  What gives?  Is it worth it for me to learn a side count,
or should I just graduate to a multilevel system instead?   Keep in mind
that I do most of my gambling in AC with a few trips to Vegas each year.

		Thanx a lot for listening.
			
				Mike Casale
				casale@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jdodson@cse.unl.edu (James Dodson)
Subject: Gambling in Iowa...
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 06:14:12 GMT

	I consider myself to be a very inexperienced gambler, and
	haven't had the pleasure of playing in any "real" casinos
	(read "I've never been to Vegas").  So, I was glad to hear
	of casinos along I-29 in Iowa, namely WinnaVegas in Sloan
	and CasinOmaha in Onawa (both on indian reservations), both
	of which are about 2 hours from here (Lincoln, Ne). 
	The first one I went to (ever) was at Sloan.  I was really 
	there only to scope the place out and I didn't take much cash.
	After watching for a while, I bought into a 7 stud game for
	20$.  I left the place with 45$.  I know, I know, not much
	money, but I was pleased.  After all, it was my first gambling
	experience (apart from generic weekend games for low money).
	I went to Onawa about a month or so ago.  It is a much nicer
	casino than Sloan, but could use more poker tables (I only
	play poker).  After a long wait for a seat, I bought in for
	50$ and played poker for about an hour and a half (they closed
	at 2:00 am) and walked out with 130$ and about 5$ in souvenier
	chips.  I am planning a trip back to Onawa on Monday, and I 
	hope I can do as well as I have previously.
	Has anyone reading this ever played in these small, yet playable
	casinos?

	-Jim-
--

  ===========================================================================
 :                             Groupthink                                    :
  ===========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: BARGE report?
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: 25 Aug 92 11:08:41


Vini, Vidi, Pandemoni.

I hoped to have a report, but was unable to finish it last night and
I'm leaving town again.

I will say that the BARGE Hold'em Tournament was a riot, and turned
out just as I had hoped :-)  If you weren't there, then you missed it.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Never teach a card counter to sing.  It wastes your time and gets the card
 counter barred."
From: ron@eatdust (Ron Schweikert)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: BlackJack in Colorado?  Only for the lucky.  *mini* Trip report
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:40:30 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Communications -- Information Technologies

In article <9900061@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM> chan@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Chan Benson) writes:
>
>So what's the blackjack like here in Colorado? Are there any one or
>two deck games in Central City or Blackhawk? Can you double-down on
>any two cards? Does the dealer hit soft 17?
>
>A weekend in Vegas last month whetted my appetite for 21.
>
>			-- Chan Benson
>			chan@fc.hp.com

(Sorry, didn't know if this should go out to the world, but since some of
you may come to Colorado for vacation, I thought I'd toss in my two cents...)

Just got back from Central City (we took inlaws there, otherwise I hadn't
really planned on going).

BJ rules pretty bad.  Many tables have a $5 only bet (min. and max!).
The "best" deal I found (but I was only there a couple of hours so I'll be
looking for other poster's information) was $3-$5.  Dealer stayed on soft
17.  You could double down on anything.  6 decks.

What really got me was the incredible luck a couple of dealers pulled on
me at Bullwhacker's.  I was doubling on 10's and 11's with dealer showing
5 or 6, and they'd pull twenty and twenty-one!  Several bad runs like that.
Problem was there wasn't enough flexibility for money management.

Had fun, but overall was down from the tables.

Regarding atmosphere...they tried to more or less keep the 1800's motif,
but with glitzy and noisy slot machines it's pretty hard.  Nevertheless,
the atmosphere *was* better than Reno, Tahoe or Vegas.  Kinda fun in many
respects since the dealers and workers all wore outfits from the 1800's.

Overall, I had a good time and I'll go back, but won't hang out with an
old friend I saw up there who insisted at staying at the $5-only table.
That's mostly where I took the beating.  I knew it would happen and it did.
Oh well, we had a good visit (albeit expensive!).

The drive from Louisville was nice, went up Clear Creek canyon and over via
the peak to peak highway (mid afternoon).  Was a beautiful drive with no
traffic (contrasted to times I headed up Coal Creek).  Coming back, we
headed down Coal creek canyon, wasn't too bad, but there was a solid line
of cars coming up.

Parking was bad.  Unless you're lucky, don't even bother trying in town.
The best bet is in one of the back lots.  We parked for $2 and got a shuttle
to Bullwhackers.  They also pick up about every 10 minutes so you can't
beat it.  The dealers were without exception (at least on this trip) lots
of fun.  Everyone had a good time.  Had to pay for drinks (bummer).

The opera house still in good shape, but I hear they're hurting now.  Museum
traffic also down.  Couple of good sports bars upstairs in some of the casinos.

Watch for drunk drivers coming down the canyon.  If you're coming from Denver,
consider one of the many busses or shuttles.

Enjoy!
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: European No Hole BJ
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:58:26 GMT

In article <UedCRL600iUzM2q1dR@andrew.cmu.edu> David Goldreich <dg10+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>At the casino, the had some gambling magazine that they were giving out
>for free (I forgot what it was called), that had a column by Arnold Snyder.

The Card Player, probably.

>Snyder's column was about *Aruba* no hole BJ.  In this game, dealer BJ
>takes all doubles and splits that bust, plus one more.  Sort of halfway
>between American and European No Hole.

Interesting.  He may have first heard of this rule from my article.  I
wonder if he wound up going to Aruba?

>Snyder says the only strategy variation is not to split 8's against
>10 or A.

Yeah, I think that's what I guessed in my article.

>Clearly, this will be true for European no-hole, but are there
>more strategy variations?
>
>Snyder says the cost of Aruba no hole is just .01%.

Yeah, I think I guessed "less than .01%" or "no more than .01%" in
my article.

>So, European no-hole must cost > .01%

Yep, it does, but I don't have the figures handy.  I think it was .1% or
.2% for basic strategists.

>An odd situation occured while I was playing.  The player to the right
>of 3rd base was dealt an extra card (an Ace) accidentally.  The card
>was offered to the 3rd base player who had a hard 18 (The dealer
>had an Ace showing).  The third base player said he wanted to stand
>and didn't take the Ace.
>
>My first reaction was that the player was an idiot since he could have 
>had a 19 instead of 18.  Then I realized that he did something smart.
>The dealer had an Ace showing, and this being a no-hole game, the next
>card is the dealer's.  Instead of a potential BJ, the dealer got stuck 
>with 2 Aces for a soft 12.
>
>Sounds to me like the 3rd base player made a smart move.  Any thoughts?

Sounds like a very wise move to me.

-- 
Michael Hall            \ "Advantage is irrelevant.
NASA Ames Research Center\  Countermeasures are futile."
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \  -Borg card counter
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Time to gang up on Jacobs!!
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 03:36:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

OK kids, in case it's been lost on anyone --

Steve Jacobs is now 2 for 2 *in his life* in hold 'em tourneys.  He
is most assuredly giggling to himself back home in Utah at the bunch
of scrubs he is fortunate enough to associate with on the net, and
in sleazy hotel rooms in LV.

I'm not looking forward to the gloating that will ensue if he pulls
the hat trick.  What we need is totaw concentwation, er, collusion
against the Stevester in the upcoming tourney.  I for one suggest
4 AM "wrong numbers" to his home to wear him down, artificial server
messages sent to him to force bad plays, etc...  This is not for fun;
it's all-out war.

Oh yeah, congratulations, Steve.  (grr...)
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: 900073s@dragon.acadiau.ca (Donald Smith)
Subject: Roulette and Trip to Edmonton!!
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 01:20:37 GMT

  Well, I have always been interested in Gambling (hence readin this news group
but I have never really ever gambled much, just the odd poker game with
"the boys"; a bit of Video Lottery Gaming here an there.  Nickel and Dime
stuff....

  That all changed this weekend.  I was visiting my Sister in Edmonton, and was
let off for the day in the West Edmonton Mall.  (I am from Nova Scotia).  So,
I'm wandering around when I notice the casino doors open.  Curiosity got the
best of me, and I walked in.  The Roulette wheel looked interesting, so I got
$20 worth of $.50 chips.  Making Rookie errors like placing chips *beside*
instead of on top of other chips; Betting where you can't bet, and betting
one chip on 1-6 instead of 6 chips on the side etc...  I managed
to stay pretty even.  I was only betting the "Big" $.50 at a time, occasionally
a couple bucks.  As I began to catch on to the finer points of Roulette, I
began to develop a betting habbit; just to make things simple for me.  I was
on the verge of broke, so I bought another $20 worth of $.50 chips.  Then
things started to work for me.  I bet $2 on 1-12; and it hit.  I left $4
on the table and collected the $2.  It hit again.  I left $8 on the table and
kept $4.  *it hit again*.  I left $16 on the table, and collected $8.

 *IT HIT AGAIN*.  I left $32 on the table, and kept $16.
 All while betting, I was also putting $2 each time on "2".
 *IT HIT NEXT*.  So, I had a $70 payoff from the "2" and collected $64 from
the 1-12 hit, and left the $32 ride.

 No luck next time ;-).

 I had ammased quite a few chips, so I went up to Dollar chips.  I kept betting
$2 on "2", and $10 on 1-12.  I hit the "2" two more times that afternoon, and
hit 1-12 probably close to %40 of the time...

 I cashed out at $425.50.  Not bad for my first walk through a Casino Door. ;-)


 Anyone know of any good Roulette Games for the IBM?? ;-)


-- 
 "In the news today, George Bush ate breakfast.  Political analysts think it    is an attept to boost his popularity before the election."                       I'll believe in the first religion I find that realizes God is a Habs Fan. 
 Donald.Smith@dragon.acadiau.ca
From: egk@remarque.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Want to buy casino hardware!
Date: 24 Aug 1992 04:35:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu

Check the Auction Section of your local Sunday News paper!  About 6
months ago one of the local, (in LA CA), auction places was auctioning
off Crap Tables, BJ tables and a few other things that I might have
bid on had I the room to put the stuff in!

Can you imagine having a real crap table in the middle of your living
room?!

--E+
-- 
			  
			    0
		      +  @  +  @  +
			\ * | * /
From: exucad@exu.ericsson.se (Charles Dobbins)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: BlackJack in Colorado?
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:11:29 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug23.152257.3795@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> elesatz@nyx.cs.du.edu (Eric LeSatz) writes:
>From: elesatz@nyx.cs.du.edu (Eric LeSatz)
>Subject: Re: BlackJack in Colorado?
>Date: 23 Aug 92 15:22:57 GMT

>In article <1992Aug22.215326.27908@sei.cmu.edu> rrh@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Holibaugh) writes:

>>When I was in Black Hawk, I did not see any single deck games, but I was only
>>in 2 or 3 casinos.

>Last weekend when I was in Blackhawk I asked a dealer about this. He
>said that there is only on casino in the Blackhawk/Central City area
>that has a single deck table. Unfortunately, I can't remember the
>casino, but just ask any of the dealers..

I was up there a while back and was in most casinos and don't recall any 
single deck games. I would be very interested in finding out which one does.

>Interesting footnote to all this: I was talking to this 
>guy who is a bus driver and was just standing around what appeared to be a 
>tour bus. Anyway, we got to talking and it turns out that the bus company
>is hired to drive casino workers from Denver to Blackhawk. He said
>that they bring up 250 people for each shift. There were also other
>buses of this type around so I wonder how many jobs this gambling has
>actually created.

I'm sure the numbers would be shocking, I left most nights at closing time 
and the traffic was staggering getting out of Central City. Anyone have any 
word on Colorado uping the $5 limit. I was told they were going to try this 
year and never heard anything else.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Dobbins                                 Ericsson Network Systems, Inc
Systems Programmer                                            P.O. Box 833875
                                                    Richardson, TX 75083-3875
                                                               (214) 997-0982
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: Marc.Ringuette@daisy.learning.cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Seen in the GBC catalog: Tim Powers
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 06:25:00 GMT

The current catalog of Gamblers Book Club has an interesting item:

  LAST CALL - Tim Powers - Hardcover, $23
  "The terrifying Las Vegas of Tim Powers's imagination is one that 
  secretly animates the neon-lit gambling capital we all think we know.
  It is a world in which superstition assumes the power of religion, the
  gambling tables are starnge altars to chaotic gods, and luck becomes a 
  deity literally made flesh."

Sounds great!  I'm a BIG fan of Tim Powers, who writes strange
supernatural/science fiction.


[ Marc Ringuette | Cranberry Melon University, Cucumber Science Department  ]
[ mnr@cs.cmu.edu | 412-268-3728 |      ".surivorter erutangis a ma I"       ]
From: jtilbury@HARVARD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Gambling in Illinois
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:08:40 GMT
Organization: Harvard University

I'll be in the Chicago area next week and I'd like information on the
BJ riverboat gambling out of Joliet, IL.  Are the rules any good?
What are the table minimum and maximum?  Are they paranoid about card
counters?

Thanks,
        Jason
From: breid@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com (Bill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Kelly w/fut.options & 95% penetration
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:02:51 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

In article <1992Aug26.095503.325@doc.bmd.trw.com> mmord@doc.bmd.trw.com writes:
>Can you apply Kelly Criterion or log optimallity to futures options to
>determine how much you would best spend on each contract?  Of course
>some crude assumptions would have to be made about the expectation,
>variance, etc but is there some way to at least roughly apply these
> methods?
>
You can generally apply Kelly betting to portfolio management (I've been 
doing it for years and it works great), but as futures options are 
a without question a "wasting asset" (or a negative sum game) 
the concepts get a bit muddied.  I would assume you could use a 
Black-Scholes type fair-market value comparison to determine the 
relative "expectation" between contracts, and either only buy contracts 
at a price which does not exceed your "risk level" (for small 
options portfolios) or allocate percentages of your large(r) options 
portfolio based on the relative expectations of the contracts.  You could 
also just use the regular "bull/bear spread" strategy, in which your 
spread is weighted in the direction that you think the underlying 
instrument is more likely to go.  (You could also postulate that 
my favorite options strategy, deeply out-of-money straddles, is "log 
optimal", as the variance is computed on the time decay of the position 
and the small probability of a 10fold profit. Of course, the predicted 
variance of the underlying instrument is key to this - the higher the 
better!).

>Oh yeah, can anyone estimate the expectation on 2 decks, 95% penetration,
>DOA, DAS, NRSA, H17,spread 1-4, Wong halves (doubled)w/ace side count?
>This game exists in Nevada but it is well Hidden Away. :)

I estimate about 1.2%, because ANYONE can estimate.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: whisnant@iastate.edu (Kerry L Whisnant)
Subject: Re: Dice Propositions
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:27:53 GMT

In article <17c5pcINNl09@agate.berkeley.edu> lipman@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Everett Lipman) writes:
>
>I have recently been thinking about a common dice proposition in which 
>the victim is offered a wager that in repeated rolls of two dice, the
>numbers 6 and 8 will appear before two 7s.  The book THEORY OF GAMBLING
>by Epstein claims the probability of the 6 and 8 occurring before two 7s
>is .56 (page 150).  Scarne's NEW COMPLETE GUIDE TO GAMBLING claims the
>probability is 50/86, or .581 (page 827).  When I did the calculation,
>I got .54558.  I think Scarne's explanation is incorrect, and unfortunately
>Epstein does not give one.  Does anyone have any thoughts about this 
>problem?  

I get your result (actually 4225/7744) if I make the simplifying
assumption that you can ignore any number not a 6,7 or 8. Then the
probability of winning is 2p*p*(3-6*p+2*p*p)/(1-p)**2, where p is the
modified probability of throwing a 6 from the reduced set of
possibilities (in this case p=5/16).

... A more complete calculation including the other numbers verifies that
the assumption is justified. So I think you are correct.
-- 
Kerry Whisnant                  High Energy Physics Group
whisnant@iastate.edu            Department of Physics and Astronomy
whisnant@alisuvax.bitnet        Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50011
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mafu@ocf.berkeley.edu (Mark Fujimoto)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Stan's Monster Hand
Date: 25 Aug 1992 19:31:09 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu
Summary: 118 throws

I read this forum only occasionally, so excuse me if this has been 
presented before.  Anyone out there remember a Stanley Fujitake of
Hawaii?  He's the guy that held the dice at the California H&C in Las
Vegas for over three hours one day back in '89.  Want to know how he
did it?  I have a copy of an inter-office memo that documents the roll
and gives some other interesting facts as well.  If you want a copy,
email me; if enough reply, I'll try and post it. 

	-- Mark  mafu@ocf.berkeley.edu
From: drb@druwy.ATT.COM (BurrittD)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Gambling in Colorado
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:28:30 GMT

in article <s+m-_L-@engin.umich.edu>, Robert.Drongowski@cc.umich.edu (Robert Drongowski) says:
> X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b2
> Nntp-Posting-Host: no-name-surgery.med.umich.edu
> 
> Subject: Re: Gambling in Colorado
> From: David Berger, David.Berger@bbs.oit.unc.edu
> In article <1992Aug26.174113.5633@samba.oit.unc.edu> David Berger,
> David.Berger@bbs.oit.unc.edu writes:
>>Does anyone know if there is any gambling establishments/ casinos around
>>Colorado Springs?  I will l be making a trip there relatively soon and
> would
>>like to make my trip that much better.
>>
> Yes, there is.  About 1 hour by car is an old gold-rush town (Cripple
> Creek, If I recall) which has been converted to gambling establishments
> as in old days.  If you are a serious gambler, don't go.  Poker at $1.00
> maximum per bet, three raise limit, and 2 or 3 max per last bet.  Not
> very exciting since you can't possibly bluff people out with those kinds
> of bets.  It's a beautiful side trip through very scenic country, but Las
> Vegas, it's not.
> All the major hotels in CS can direct you to these establishments (about
> 30 or so in that town).

The maximum bet is $5.00 per raise not $1.00 and it is very possible
to bluff people out with those limits (I have done it several times
in Central City)

-- Dave Burritt


































Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hundal@math.psu.edu (Hein S. Hundal)
Subject: Re: FAQ
Organization: Penn State Department of Mathematics
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:38:44 GMT


>I was wondering where I could obtain the FAQ to rec.gambling? 

A copy of the FAQ is in the mail.  The archives are located at
soda.berkeley.edu. - Hein Hundal
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: If you missed the BARGE...
In-reply-to: irwin@uvmark.uucp's message of 3 Sep 92 18:05:49 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: 4 Sep 92 08:08:06

In article <1992Sep03.180549.6516@uvmark.uucp> irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin) writes:
>
> Of course, BARGErs are welcome, as well, but we won't let jacobs in the
> hold'em tournament.

*sniff* :-(
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Be afraid.  Be very afraid.  I have K-10 offsuit...."
From: jason@dcs.umd.edu (Jason Steinhorn)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Double Exposure and Ace-Side Count
Keywords: Double Exposure,Ace-Side Count
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:01:55 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Aug26.011118.15354@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:

>Proper double exposure playing strategy can be found in Wong's _Professional
>Blackjack_.  See also 21 NEWS, issue #2, available via anonymous ftp to
>soda.berkeley.edu in the file v1n2.ps.Z. 

Also, Ken Uston's "Million Dollar Blackjack" has a pretty good section on
Double Exposure...

Jason
jason@dcs.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling