From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Here we go again! (l (2)
X-To: MICHAL LEAH PERI
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 23:09:00 GMT

Michal Peri writes:
MLP> Karl Denninger:
MLP> >Michal Peri:
MLP> >>How can we divide up that responsibility (post-conception) without
MLP> >>giving depriving a woman of her bodily autonomy.  The answer is
MLP> >>we *can't*.  Between conception and birth the process of gestation
MLP> >>occurs within the woman's body and thus is *not* available to the
MLP> >>man's discretion!

MLP> >Certainly you can, be accepting that since a woman makes the choice she ha
MLP> >the responsibility for the choices made ABSENT AN AGREEMENT WITH THE FATHE
MLP> >TO THE CONTRARY.

MLP> So what.  The father has an obligation to his offspring whether or not
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
MLP> he agrees.
     ^^^^^^^^^^

Excuse me for budding in here, but this is *precisely* the sexist presumption
which we would like to change, and soon.

Indeed... It USED to be the case that "the mother has an obligation to her
offspring whether or not she agrees," which apparently you had a problem with,
but NOT with the father having a forced obligation.


MLP> >>>I would support law that would allow a woman to decree, PRE-SEX ACT, tha
MLP> >>>she is unwilling to have an abortion.  That is, she is able to declare t
MLP> >>>she plays the "life begins at conception" game.  Then there is informed
MLP> >>>consent.  That covers the religious objections to the procedure.  If a m
MLP> >>>sleeps with a woman knowing this, and pregnancy results, then BOTH paren
MLP> >>>should raise the resulting child.  This is the basis of informed consent
MLP> >>
MLP> >>There is no legislation needed.  Women are free to declare such intent.
MLP> >>Men are free to inquire a woman's intent.
MLP> >>
MLP> >>If a man (who is not willing to become a father) has intercourse with a
MLP> >>woman without ascertaining her intent *first* than he is an immature fool
MLP> >>If *afterwards* he cries, yells, and threatens, then he is merely
MLP> >>advertising his folly and lack of maturity.

MLP> >What if she misrepresents her intentions?

MLP> That's a risk he takes when he has intercourse.

"That's a risk she takes when she has intercourse, and if she gets pregnant,
oh well, too bad".


MLP> >  Again, if you are using birth
MLP> >control, that appears to be a rather clear statement of intention.

MLP> Intention doesn't matter.  Once a child is born the parents (once again,
MLP> note the plural!) have an obligation to see that it is cared for.

No thanks.  Only if I CHOOSE to, thank you.


MLP> > Now,
MLP> >just why should women be allowed to change their intent AFTER THE FACT and
MLP> >bill the man for the results?

MLP> You don't think it's fair that he should have to pay for 1/2 of the
MLP> abortion?

No, he's saying that it's unfair for her to change her mind about having an
abortion by NOT having one, and then sending him the bill FOR EIGHTEEN YEARS!

Quite a bill, I'd say!

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Cthulhu for President in '92 - Why vote for the _lesser_ of two evils?"
                                                          - Bronis Vidugiris
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Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion