From: mmokhtar@attmail.com (Mazen Mokhtar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (28th)
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:58:28 GMT
Organization: AT&T
Originator: mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com

Alan Stein writes:
>Mokhtar once more either shows ignorance or deliberately tries to
>mislead everyone.

  There is no need to get personal. You do not know the extent of my knowledge
nor do you know my intentions. If you have an argument then present it.

> The way Israel decides who can become a citizen is not much different from
>any other nation.  Since Judea and Samaria are not within Israel, it would be
>presumptuous for Israel to foist citizenship on its residents.

  Israel is occupying these areas and it is taxing its residents without
representing them. The residents reject Israeli control and protested several
times because their taxes are being used to benefit Israelis.

> Any such action must await a negotiated
>settlement of the status of the territories.

  Israel is in no hurry.

>Jerusalem is another matter, since it is not only part of Israel, but
>is its capital.

  Only Israel recognizes this claim. No one even recognizes all of Jerusalem as
part of Israel, let alone its capital. I am waiting to see the day when Israel
will declare Damascus as the capital of its eastern province.

>Israel in certainly not oppressive, and certainly is a democracy,

Is it the nature of a just state to kill innocent people?
Is it the nature of a just state to destroy the houses of families of suspects?
Is it the nature of a just state to bury people alive?
Is it the nature of a just state to imprison without charge, lawyer or trial?
Is it the nature of a just state to treat Ethipian citizens as second class and
  Palestinian true owners of the land as third class?
Is it the nature of a just state to expel residents of one occupied territory
  into the occupied territory of another sovereign state?
Is it the nature of a just state to steal people's houses and lands and to
  give them to strangers from Russia?
Is it the nature of a just state to deny the existence of the owners of the
  land which it stole?
Is it the nature of a just state to occupy land from every one of its neighbors?

  Israelis inherited the oppression they should have rejected and passed it
on. Israel is not a just state. Israel is not a democracy. Israel is little
more than a symbol of where disunity can lead.

>but obviously there are many who wish to close their minds to that in
>their zeal to condemn Israel regardless of merit.

  That is unfortunate because merit can so easily be found.

>Palestinian flag?  What entity, precisely, does it represent?

  It represents the state now occupied by Israel with the exception of the
Golan and South Lebanon.

> Who designed it?

  The peace of land always existed. It is one of the many pieces into which
the state of the Muslims divided. Other peaces include Morroco, Oman, Lebanon
and Turkey.

>  Does Yassir Arafat know that it is not the PLO flag?  If
>so, how do those who exhibit it escape with their lives?

  Yassir Arafat is well aware of which flag is which. Even he does not call
it the PLO flag. Those who exhibit the flag escape with their lives by being
located outside of territories occupied by Israel. Israel buldozered homes that
displayed the flag on occasion.

>>>> while a total
>>>> stranger from Russia is welcomed, given citizenship and accomodation.

>In his homeland.

 No, in Israel.

>> The immigration laws are designed to define who the citizens are in order
>>to transform the region demographically.

>In that case, why has the Arab portion of Israel's population
>increased, and the Jewish portion decreased, during most of the period
>since the reestablishment of Israel?

  Mainly because more Jews leave Israel then settle in it. This is because
the Israeli economy is in shambles. Israel ravalued its currency twice in its
short history. Israel promises Jews happiness in Palestinian or US-funded
houses. What they find instead is poverty, unemplyment and homelessness. The
Palestinians endure because it is their land. Most Jews came for the free
ride, when they find that it is a myth they pack and leave.

  Until the Russian Jews started coming in, immigration had almost stopped and
emigration was increasing. Most Russian Jews had Europe or the US as their
first choice destination.

>If Israel is so good to Jews, and so terrible to Arabs, why do Arabs
>complain about not being able to come in, while more Israeli Jews live
>in New York City than Tel Aviv?

  Because Palestinians consider it their land and Jews don't.

>>  Israel is occupying Jerusalem, Gaza, The West Bank, South Lebanon, the
>>Golan heights, and until recently Sinai. Israel occupied territory from
>>everyone of its neighbors, then complains that it has many enemies.
>Of course, if Arabs hadn't kept attacking Israel, you wouldn't be saying that.

  Of course, if Israel didn't take the land of Palestinians and didn't threaten
to expand from the Euphrate to the Nile and didn't start the 1967 war and
didn't occupy land from all its neighbors you wouldn't be saying that.

>By the way, what do you have to say about Syria occupying North
>Lebanon, Central Lebanon, Eastern Lebanon and Western Lebanon?

  I condemn it, but the topic here is Israeli occupation of North Palestine,
Central Palestine, South Palestine, East Palestine, West Palestine, South
Lebanon, The Golan and the failed occupation of Sinai.

  Syria did not eliminate Lebanon from the map. It did not demographically
transform it and did not declare any relation with lebanese leaders as illegal.


Regards,

Mazen Mokhtar