HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Linen and wool
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:22:47 GMT
Organization: AT&T


My most decadent garment is a linen shift--it wears like iron,
and keeps me incredibly warm/cool, depending on the temperature.
Sucks all the sweat right off my body and sprays it out into the
outside air--neat trick.  (It was cream, until someone-who-shall-
remain-nameless-to-protect-his-identity said "oh, I've washed this
red tunic before, it won't run...."--I now have to dye it, or
something.)

My advice?  Search your fabric stores--it does go on sale, and
is DEFINITELY worth the price.  Nothing beats it for comfort
and wearability--especially for camping events.

Alienor Salton
mka Eleanor Evans
From: Kevin.O'Neal@f40.n125.z1.fidonet.org (Kevin O'Neal)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Health Courtesy and Consciousness
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 00:37:41 -0500

 -=> Quoting Pat McGregor to All <=-

 PM> From: patmcg@home.merit.edu (Pat McGregor)
 PM> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
 PM> Organization: University of Michigan

 PM> How does this group feel about adults who go out and spread their
 PM> nasty germs everywhere? ("nasty" said with a ;-)   )
 PM> 
 PM> Thanks for your opinions on this.
 PM> 
 PM> regards, 
 PM> 
 PM> siobhan
 PM> 

     I agree that it is a bad thing for people who know they are sick to go
out into public and possibly infect others, but I see it as no different than
a kid in school with the sniffles that gets a few other kids sick.  That kid
could have stayed at home, but (in a parallel example to SCA events) he WANTED
to go to school to see his friends and participate in the days activities.
     Do you see what I'm trying to say?  Some really bad bug will have you 
lying in bed and you won't have a choice of attending an event or not, but 
a cold where you are just sneezing and blowing your nose doesn't stop you from
getting about.  It may slow you at times, but not stop you.  If someone thinks
that what they have is bad enough they will stay home and get better, but if 
it doesn't seem too bad they will go about their business.

      -Kevin O'Neal-

... But soft, what light through yonder tagline breaks?
From: Richard.Tucker@f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Richard Tucker)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Banishment
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 14:15:48 -0500

re: The Witch Hunt

I was there, it was a kangaroo kourt, John and Willow bit the bullet for the
Kingdom.    Try to understand; some people in Ansteorra play the Game for real. 
There's nothing you can do to cure this mental abberation, you just have to
either humor them or stay out of their way politically.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Requiring Membership to play
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:06:56 GMT

Although Grimmund and I agree in principal, I think there
are a few errors in fact here.

  	Having given this matter a bit of thought, it occurs to me that 
  perhaps requiring membership to participate as a officer is a 
  ounterproductive thing.  Seems to me that we are already asking
  people to give up a lot of time and effort to autocrat events; 
  requiring the sucker/r/e/k/c/u/s to give up another $25 to 
  Milpitas is sort of adding insult to injury.

Somewhat true.  However, when acting as an officer of the SCA,
you are protected by the Director's and Officer's Liability
policy.  The way it was written requires that you be a paid
member to be covered.  I can see the reason for this, although
I do not believe it to be a necessity.

I have a similar argument with the requirement of Autocrats. Hilary
seems to believe (according to our correspondence) that in order
to be qualified to act as an agent for the SCA, you must be a
member.

I disagree with the agency argument, and I think that the insurance
argument is insufficient.  On the one hand, we should be allowed to
act without that protection, should we want to, and forget about
Mommy Knows Best.  And, I'm not at all certain that we couldn't get
a different sort of Liability insurance that covered rostered officers,
regardless of that persons membership status.  On the other hand, I
have NOT looked into whether this suspicion is correct, nor whether
such a change would cost more in premiums than we can afford.

                                                     If the
  perception is that the major benefit of being a paid member is
  that you can now hold a part-time unpaid job for the SCA, is it so 
  surprising that membership figures are not to the BoD's liking?

Has anyone demonstrated that the membership figures are NOT to
the Board's liking?

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
From: gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu (Joe Mama)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Magic?
Date: 29 Sep 1992 17:42:06 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


Unto my lords and ladies doth Caradoc ap Gwydion hurl this stream of
Consciousness rambling.

Magic took the form of many different styles in the Middle Ages.
(See _Magic in the middle Ages_...) There was Alchemy, there was
folk religion, and there was the Arabic Mystical tradition.

On Alchemy:
Heavily influenced by Arabic magic, Alchemy was a spiritual path. 
You know, aimed at the spiritual perfection of the soul an' all that.
Alchemists were around, and are acceptable as personae.

On folk religion:
In many parts of the World, Christianity had not yet made its mark,
and even where it had, it did not always succeed in wiping out the 
natural reigions that existed there before. The British Isles, and 
Provencal France are perfect examples of this. It was in these places
that such events as harvest festivals and Sun-Up celebrations did and
still do happen, existing peacefully with Christianity. So personae 
who take part in these local observances are allowed.

On Arabic Mysticism:
I take the Hashishim of Hassan i' Sabbah as my example. They were
a mystical cult in what is now Southern Turkey or Syria, who supposedly
taught the Templars all the things that the Templars got burned for.

Jaques de Molay, Thou art avenged.



write for more information. I'm in a state of constant research on this stuff.

Ever in service,

Caradoc



###############################################################################
Caradoc ap Gwydion 
Seneschal
College of St. David, Darkwood, Mists 		Chris Arnold
The West					gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Requiring Membership to play
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:02:56 GMT

Hal Ravn writes:
  If one proposes that officers be permitted to hold office and that the
  SCA will cover their actions (liability insurance) *without* insisting
  that the cost be borne by the officer--then you are implicitly
  suggesting that the same argument can be applied to any sub-group
  within the SCA--the insurance should cover all who can be defined at
  no cost to themselves.

Hal, are you sure? I certainly see a difference between those whose
work in the SCA cuts into their mundane life and time, and whose
service provides much of the necessary infrastructure of the basic
organization, and those whose participation is confined to personal
pleasures and recreations which are pleasant to watch, but do not
make our organization possible.  (If from that description, you 
cannot tell which corresponds to fighting, and which to being
an officer, I suppose Hal's case is made.)

The more I think about it, the more I come to believe that the cost
of running the SCA should be spread to those who attend SCA events.
I'm starting to think seriously about writing a proposal to the Board
to decouple newsletters and membership, and to institute a per person
event fee for every event, that is forwarded to the Corporation.

I solicit serious commentary.  Good jokes welcome too...

Hal also says:
  I would prefer to see the *reasons* for requiring membership for
  various categories stated a little more clearly--and (I think) a
  little more honestly.

Amen, Brother!

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ... "Autocr Dancing from Pictures; Waivers
Date: 5 Oct 1992 16:29:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <9210011904.AA19259@inmet.camb.inmet.com> justin@inmet.camb.inmet.COM (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks) writes:
>
>Re: "Autocrat"
>
>
>Well, yes and no -- it's an interesting bit of etymology. As I've heard
>it, the word dates from the very earliest events. In those days, the
>Royalty hadn't fully been invented yet.

They had -- just -- but we had this feeling that it wasn't appropriate
to ask the King and Queen to call the Parks Department and reserve the site,
make sure the restrooms had toilet paper [this was before we were big
enough to need large unimproved sites necessitating the rental of
porta-privies], or stake out the Eric.  

 ....They needed *someone* to be the
>"ranking" person, so the person running the event was chosen, and given the
>title "Supreme Autocrat". 

As indicated above, the King and Queen were the ranking people (before that,
for the first two or three events, we had a panel of judges).  The
Supreme Autocrat, the person in charge of the individual tourney, was
the _only_ other official rank; heralds and listmistresses and marshals
and what not were all pickup volunteers.


This *was* a reasonably appropriate use of the word,
>but was quickly corrupted as our modern system of ranks and titles came
>into being.
 
It was maybe around the end of AS I, beginning of AS II, that we had
enough continuing paperwork that we needed to have somebody handling
it between events, and so the Seneschalate was born.  I remember (dimly)
when the College of Heralds was organized, perhaps around the end of
the Year Two?  Marshalls, as an organized group, probably about the
same.  About the first arms we registered (other than our own) were
those for the various offices.

(Mind you, I was _there_ -- but it's been a while.)

The word "autocrat" continued to be attached to the person
>running the event, but the connotations of being the Person In Charge
>(in the recreative sense) were lost...

No, as outlined above, the King and Queen were already in existence as
the Highest Ranks.  The Supreme Autocrat, however, was the person in
charge of getting the event to come off, and--so it was said--even the
King couldn't overrule him on a matter concerning the functioning of
the event. 

>I don't *know* that this story is true -- my evidence is all anecdotal --
>but I've heard it from a couple of sources, and it does seem to fit the
>facts well. Dorothy? Hal? Any idea of whether this is true?

You came fairly close.



Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

[Which conflicts with a couple of European families and an American
fraternity--did you ever wonder how I got away with it?  Grandfather
clause!]

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: gchp@meadow.stanford.EDU (Iulstan/GCHP Mail)
Subject: on-line armorial is fixed
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:46:07 GMT

Greetings:

The new on-line armorial of SCA heraldry, announced in my posting last
month, turned out to be missing almost all of the B's.  The problem was
temporarily fixed by creating a supplement, but the supplement did not
cover A.S. XXVI (May 1991-April 1992).  The latter shortcoming has now
finally been remedied.

The complete armorial (A-Z, 1966-April 1992) is now available by FTP
from meadow.stanford.edu.  The name cross-reference has also been
updated.  These changes should soon propogate to other archive sites.

Alas, there are still lots of bugs, and the new online ordinary is
still not available.  Please be patient.

Respond, if you must, by electronic mail:  I do not read the Rialto nor
do I read the Heralds' mailing list.

Blessings on you all.

Iulstan (gchp@meadow.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: pols055@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Subject: Re: Requiring membership to play
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:02:35 GMT

Arval suggests that the main reason for requiring membership for fighters to
authorise is so that the Society is certain to have a waiver for them, this
being important because without the waiver the Society is open to lawsuits if
anyone, either participants or non-participants, SCA or non-SCA gets hurt by
the activities of fighters. (Feel free to correct me if my interpretation is
wrong - understandably I have only a very vague conception of the US legal
situation)

Question: what then is the argument in areas (such as NZ - I'm not sure about
Europe, Australia, Canada etc) where such suits DO NOT HAPPEN.

By the way, exactly the same objection holds for the argument that officers and
such have to be members because they need to get their Kingdom newsletter, or
for the insurance aspect - here we don't get kingdom newsletter with any kind
of membership, and the insurance is irrelevant.

I'm beginning to get the impression that decisions are being made which affect
the SCA around the world, where circumstances differ tremendously, without
these differences being taken into consideration. I also get the impression
that the non-USA SCA is growing more rapidly than the SCA in the US (though
this may be totally incorrect - data anyone?)

On the otherhand even I would feel that it was grossly injust if all USA
fighters had to be members and ours didn't. I just feel that this element of
the picture is being ignored totally - and that this is a `bad thing' tm.

My groats worth for this week,

Eleonora van den Bogaerde, Southron Gaard, Caid.
Simone Hindin, Christchurch, New Zealand.
From: glenn@bessel.umd.edu (D. Glenn Arthur Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Jousting -- clarification
Date: 30 Sep 1992 16:16:13 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I mentioned Markland horse combat -- I have _heard_ of one-on-one
combat involving mounted combatants, but all I have _witnessed_
involved javelins thrown from horseback.  I shall try to get more
information.

D. Glenn Arthur Jr., The Human Vibrator, glenn@bessel.umd.edu
"Being a _man_ means knowing that one has a choice not to act like a 'man'."

How much interest is there in a Transvestite/Transsexual newsgroup?  How many 
would post there?   Anonymously?  How many would _vote_ non-anonymously?  And
what would you name it?  

You can send me mail anonymously at anonymus+262@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Term Limits for the Landed Baroncy
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 18:38:02 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

Greetings from Arval!  I wrote:

> The job is so ill-defined that there is no objective way to evaluate the
> incumbent or a candidate.  And that may be the very best argument in
> favor of term limits: If there is no good way to decide when you need a
> new baron, then changing them regularly may be very wise indeed.

Angus replied: 

> You might as well say, "We can't tell whether they're getting any better,
> so we should keep them in longer just to be sure."

Yes, that is equally logical, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum: All things
being equal, we do want to give lots of people a chance at the limelight.  

> Some baronies would no doubt prefer their leadership to have the benefit
> and aura of long experience.  Some would no doubt prefer that they don't
> have to get out the knives to get rid of their leadership when they are
> tired of them.  I say let the baronies decide for themselves.
> Consequently, make no law on the matter!

I agree with your conclusion, but perhaps via different logic.  I am coming
to think that if I were in a barony that was choosing a new baron/ess or
was just forming, I would argue for some sort of automatic process for
allowing fresh blood.  Or I might insist on some clear statement of the
duties of the baron/ess and a well-defined procedure for deciding whether
or not they are being accomplished.  The problems arise when there _is_ a
problem, but no means of redress other than direct personal attack.

I don't think the SCA needs a strict rule defining how and when baron/esses
are replaced, but I do think that every barony needs such a rule.  I fully
agree with Angus that designing those rules should be left to the baronies
themselves. 

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Subject: Re: Linen and wool
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:16:04 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Oct1.134226.22190@mail.cornell.edu> Ken Stuart  <kps1@cornell.edu> writes:

>Whereas wool can be obtained from the farmer down the road, from
>mail-order houses, or from a local spinners' guild, not many people can
>find a source for flax.  If a city-dweller wishes to learn to work with
>wool, not much equipment is required, and the wool is easy to obtain --
>there are many people who still raise sheep.  But I have never seen a
>flax working pond, much less a field full of flax, where I might go to
>obtain the stuff.

	Any pond will do, or  if you have a lawn there is always 'dew-retting'
and it can be done indoors in tubs. Flax seed is available so you can grow 
your won.

>	  If anyone know of a place where linen is available,
>I'd certainly love to know about it.  
	Euroflax, Inc.
	P.O  box 241
	Rye, NY 10580
	(914) 967-9342    
East Canada (613) 962-9430	

	they have flax seed, line flax in stricks and batts (stricks are 
period) and flax in roving (cut short and prepared like wool) and linen yarn.

>Once the linen fibers have been
>obtained, I believe they must be carded and spun just like wool before
>they can be turned into cloth.  If the raw material is just not available
>any more, it's no wonder that few people discuss its properties and how
>it can be worked, etc.

	Actually, the process is considerably more complicated than wool, and
involves yet another set of specialized tools (although you can kludge most of
them). Flax must be rippled - run through a coarse comb to remove the seed
balls for next season - then broken to shatter the hard outer stem. Skutching
removes the remaining pieces of stem and hackling with successivly smaller
hackles removes the short fibers and straigtens the fibers for spinning. The
last process is a little like wool combing, but requires a different tool.

>Linen is very nice to wear and to work with, and is a very appropriate
>material for garb construction.  It is nice to embroider and is certainly
>cooler than wool.  Real linen is rather expensive, but 'linen look'
>cloth, which is available in many fabric stores, can be used instead. 
>The 'linen look' material is much cheaper, and is usually a linen/cotten
>blend; I've always found that it wrinkles far less than cotten, too,
>though it costs more than cotten broadcloth.
>
>It would be nice to see more linen incorporated into garb; consider linen
>or 'linen look' next time you shop.  'Linens' made from linen are also
>much less scratchy than 'linens' made from wool.  :-)

	Cotton/linen blends are also good. Cotton weft with a linen warp is
a good period fabric.


-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Ilaine's E-Z Garb Workshop
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	Before you can spin the wool, you need to comb it.
                   | 	Use the combs with the 5 rows of 6" razor sharp spikes.
ilaine@panix.com   |    Don't drink and comb - trust me on this.
From: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cost of armor (was: Membership Privileges?)
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:34:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Sep29.173410.2228
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

Somebody (the attribution isn't clear) wrote:

   > Gott im Himmel Sei!  $150 for armour?!?  My helmet cost more than that!

     The idea is to *make* it, not buy it.  That's why we have local armorer's
guilds and armor-making parties -- so the unarmored and unhelmed can obtain
hands-on instruction, get the benefit of others' experience, and share tools
and workspace.  You can certainly *make* an effective and list-legal set of
arms for $150.00.
                                             -- Geoffrey
From: Riki.Stein@f906.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Riki Stein)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Term limits for barons
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 10:26:00 -0500

Arval Benicoeur, Lord Treblerose, Master of the Pelican (have I got the
style of address right, Arval? I want to show proper respect) posted an
essay full of well-reasoned, well-thought-out arguments both for and against
limiting the terms of landed barons and baronesses in the SCA.

While I fully appreciate the need for calm, rational discussion on this
subject,
I cannot contemplate the idea of term limits for barons without the utmost
shock and dismay. 

You see, I have been active in the Society for only five short years, and have
lived in only three areas of the East Kingdom: the Barony of Carolingia, the
Barony of Dragonship Haven, and the Barony Beyond the Mountain.

The thought of Carolingia without Baron Patri, Dragonship Haven without
Baroness Arwen, and Barony Beyond the Mountain without Baron Salaamallah
is a sad one.  These good gentles have served as examples of all the virtues
that are prized in the Society - kindness, chivalry, learning, and more. Their
permanence has made them an *enduring* source of inspiration, not only for
myself both as a newcomer and a longer-term member, but for other members also.
Their continuing dedication to the Society sets a standard that I do my best
to follow.  If their terms of office were limited, they would not cease their
service, but their effectiveness as sources of inspiration, *especially* for
newcomers, would be sadly diminished. 

I agree that there should exist some mechanism for the removal of undesirable
barons.  However, to arbitrarily limit all barons to a four year term would
result in great loss to the Society, at least in the areas where I have lived.

Yours in service,
Lady Ariane Baccadoro
Chatelaine Beyond the Mountain, EK

PS: Arval, is it more proper for an AoA of Italian persona to use the
honorific "signora" or "donna" ? I know the recent ruling on the Spanish
"don/donna" - does it also apply to the Italian? -Ariane
... Use the fork, Duke!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca