From: Steve.Hayes@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: frustrations with christianity
Date: 16 Dec 92 10:49:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/20.0 - Unisa Editorial, Pretoria

During a discussion about Re: frustrations with christianity on 12-14-92  22:27 Wayne Aiken said to All

 >Why should you take offence at what someone else believes?
 WA> 
 WA> Well, when the *explicit* doctrines of such beliefs include such
 WA> insulting things as portraying mankind as depraved, powerless, and
 WA> evil, I can't help but to take issue with it.  When people claim that
 WA> one can only be a good, ethical, and just person by following their
 WA> mythology, its a slap in the face to those many good, ethical, and just
 WA> people who don't follow it.  Many people simply don't realize how their
 WA> beliefs, however sacred and holy it may seem to them, can be patently
 WA> offensive to others.  It also doesn't help that I've heard ministers
 WA> who take such implicit offense and launch into incredible direct
 WA> attacks on atheists.  People need to get used to the idea that displays
 WA> of religious faith are far from neutral. 

Perhaps, but have you ever considered that others might find your beliefs offensive?

Of course we could be talking at cross-purposes here. Let me say that I think 
that people should be allowed to believe what they like and propagate their 
beliefs provided they do not harm others. Now I freely admit that there are
some problems here. Racism, for example. 

But I'm still not quite clear what you have in mind. Are you thinking of 
stickers saying that "Atheists are scum" or something of the like? If 
so, I would agree with you that they are offensive. But it seems to me 
more like you are saying that anyone whose views do not coincide with yours 
is offensive. Now THAT I would find offensive. If you think that people 
who disagree with you are misguided, deluded, stupid, ignorant, misinformed
incorrect or wrong, that's fine. But if you are offended and feel insulted 
by their beliefs and feel the need to insult them personally, then I 
think that's pretty authoritarian. So you suppress any expression of any
belief that differs from yours. And how long before someone stronger than 
you comes along and decides to suppress your freedom to express your beliefs
because they find them offensive.

Live and let live.

 WA> If people take *personal* offense at criticisms of their beliefs,
 WA> thats their problem.  Note that none of these examples are as personal
 WA> as, for example, "Protestants are funny".  Instead, I would prefer to
 WA> make a statement about protestantism as such; its similar to a "hate
 WA> the sin but lover the sinner" approach, although I think everyone has a
 WA> borderline where the two become indistinguishable.

But it seems that that is just what you are doing - taking *personal* 
offence at other peoples' expressions of their beliefs. If they were
attacking your beliefs, it would be a different matter, but are they?

 
... Keep well, Steve

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