HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: percus@husc9.harvard.edu (Allon Percus)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Medical costs (Re: I desperately need lower taxes.)
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:56:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Apr16.155632.11176
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Apr15.071821.29555@eua.ericsson.se> euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman) writes:
>Surgery won't cost more because you pay it without involving the taxman.
>It will cost less.

Unpopular as it is among neo-Thatcherites to let facts get in the way
of an otherwise elegant argument, I shall have to do so here.

I would seriously advise anyone who religiously worships the free
market to look at American medical costs.  According to just about
every recent estimate, including those done by the (politically
conservative) American Medical Association, we spent far MORE per
capita than any other industrialized nation, in fact more than ANY
nation, on medical bills.

Unless someone can demonstrate to me that Americans are healthier
than citizens of any other Western country, this fact seems to fly
in the face of the Reagan-Thatcher ideology which claims that anything
private is necessarily more efficient.

There are, in effect, two opposing factors at work in a public health
care system: economy of scale, and monopoly.  The evidence tends to
show that the first factor is more powerful than the second, and that
competition among various doctors does not do as much to bring down
medical costs as the efficiency of a large enterprise.  Rather, what
competition does is force doctors to encourage increasing amounts of
frivolous medical treatment.  Remember, when you're sick you can't
always object.

So as you can see this is one case where it pays to look at reality
rather than ideology...

Allon Percus
From: euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Date: 6 Apr 92 07:26:42 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

Bertil Jonell writes:
>a civil servant at "Taxeringsmyndigheten" in Halland [...]
>claimed, with a straight face, that to compute how much 'real' tax we
>pay, we have to subtract the benefits from what we pay. You get it? He
>ment that if we get something back from the government for the taxes we
>pay, this means that we don't really pay any taxes at all! 

This is very enlightening! "Tax" is a measurement of the inefficiency of
the welfare state! Only money that is wasted, ruined, destructed is
"tax". All the money spent on things the original owners never wanted to
buy are "benefits". I do believe, however, that this still leaves
Sweden in top of both the international taxation level list and the
international benefits level list.

ObDemocraticFreedom: In a country where I have no control over 53% of
my income and 20% of my consumption, there is *alot* of room for
increased democratic freedom.
--
  ______                     _~
 (_/_ _  _  _/) _  . /)     / ) , _/)     _
__/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_    (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_
From: shur@concour.cs.concordia.ca (SHURTLEFF h. michael)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: translation help needed
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:11:42 GMT
Organization: Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec

Thanks to all who sent translations. I am
overwhelmed.

Mike
From: ovr@vipunen.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Dutch and Finnish Pastilles
Date: 10 Apr 92 08:31:03 GMT
Reply-To: ovr@vipunen.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology

In article <1992Apr09.123214.12653@wes.on.ca> tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>I think Carol was looking for "salmiakki" or "zalmiak".  The best stuff (even
>in Finland) is imported from Holland.  The saltier the better...

Most packages call it simply "salt liquorice". And, for a heavy dose of
ammonium chloride, which salt liquorice is all about, the best thing around
is Tyrkisk Peber by Perelly, Denmark, which I consume about 1 bag/week
(1 bag=400 g (yes, I'm an addict)). BTW, is this just an urban legend
or is salt liquorice really banned in some countries (like the U. S.of A.)?

> [Mignon eggs in the U.S.A]
>	The product name is "Wonder Egg" (sigh).  Unlike Finland, where it's
>	just wrapped in some blue-and-white paper, here it's in a plastic
>	and cardboard box.

They changed the packaging 1-2 years ago. Now they come in these clever
cardboard boxes (it may take some time to understand how to reassemble
the package, look quite nice, though).

>  For those not in the know, the Mignons are real
>	eggshells filled with Fazer's incredibly good nougat chocolate (milk
>	chocolate with very finely ground hazelnuts).  Mmmmmm --- good!

And for the 1st of April next year, try this: take a REAL (tm) egg,
preferably raw, attach the original Fazer label onto it and put it into
a Mignon box. This works, of course, the other way around as well (and
may be less messy).
>
>[ \tom haapanen    "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
-- 
Ott-Vill R___________________        Nyrxfnagreva_xngh wn Xhavaxnna_xngh
ovr@vipunen.hut.fi                           ba erunovyvgbvgnin!
From: wolfgang@sam.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: I desperately need lower taxes.
Date: 13 Apr 92 11:43:26 GMT
Reply-To: wolfgang@prosun.first.gmd.de
Organization: GMD-FIRST, Berlin
In-reply-to: sundinKC@dna.lth.se's message of 13 Apr 92 09:18:39 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.091839.22392@lth.se> sundinKC@dna.lth.se (Anders Sundin) writes:

   [ about him paying for children he's never seen ]

>   I think this system is clearly unjust, and that everyone should pay for
>   their own children. It is a too heavy burden on the rest of us to pay
>   for your children.

>   Unless I get children of my own in the future. Then we have better keep
>   the current system.

... or you get old, ill etc. Need a heart transplantation, a cancer surgery,
you-name-it, for say 2 million. Those children you have never seen before
will pay for you ...
--
Wolfgang Diestelkamp
wolfgang@prosun.first.gmd.de
diestelkamp@kmx.gmd.dbp.de
From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 07:21:14 GMT
Subject: icelandic dating customs
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic

can anyone tell me about Icelandic dating customs?
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Date: 14 Apr 92 09:52:41 GMT
	<1992Apr13.071623.18372@eua.ericsson.se>
	<1992Apr13.153146.3403@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov>
	<1992Apr13.141709.11048@husc3.harvard.edu>
	<1992Apr14.092637.16007@eua.ericsson.se>
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista

In article <1992Apr14.092637.16007@eua.ericsson.se> euafri@eua.ericsson.se 
(Fredrik.Ostman) writes:

   >I hear this from Swedes quite often. In my opinion, I have a democratic
   >right to my country and to my culture. Only cowards run away from
   >problems instead of solving them.

  What, if anything, does your statement that you have a democratic
right to your country and to your culture mean? All that has emerged
so far is that you have a fondness for rhetoric and don't like to pay
taxes.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: matsd@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (matsd@physchem.kth.se (mats dahlgren))
Subject: Re: You have to be rich to get the Authorities to listen.
Reply-To: matsd@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:15:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.132957.6458@kth.se>, tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson) writes:

>In Sweden it's "area code" 020. You pay one call period, approx. SEK 
>0.30 (5 cent), for the call.
>
>Tomas

If your telephone is connected to an AXE-switch station (the modern kind)
you pay nothing when calling "area code" 020.

/mats

********************************************************************************

  mats dahlgren 
  Dept. of Physical Chemistry		Mail:	matsd@physchem.kth.se
  The Royal Institute of Technology	Phone:	+46 8 790 8595
  S-100 44  Stockholm, Sweden           Fax:	+46 8 790 8207

              All opinions expressed above are private opinions.
From: hansenk@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Looking for Freia (yum,yum)
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:17:47 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for the address of Freia Choclate.  On the back of my Firklover
chocolate bar, the address says "A/S Freia Oslo, Norway".  I'm wondering if
anyone from Oslo could let me know the full address and a phone/fax number
if they could find it.

A Norwegian friend of mine just recently bought herself a candy store (it's
a franchise), but it doesn't have any of that good delicious Scandinavian
chocolate.  She'd be really happy if she could find out where she could
order it from.  I'm not sure if Freia has other locations, and which one
would be the best to order from.

About a month ago a 2nd cousin of mine sent me some yummy Norwegian chocolate,
but it's all gone now.  Well, she sent me some "Daim" chocolate, too, and that
was really good.  My brother and I really enjoyed munching on it.  We've known
for years that Daim really comes from Sweden, and we thought it a little
strange that this Daim tasted better than what we were used to.  So, we
turned the wrapper, and saw that it was made in Oslo, Norway.  Maybe that's
why it was so good ;).  Actually, if the truth be known, I'm sure it tasted
so good because it was "fresh"...ie, not sitting around on the store shelves
of Ikea.  Yes, we even have Ikea here in Canada, but the closest one to my
city is about a 15 hour drive away, so I don't frequent the place much.

If someone could let me know the address, it sure would make a lot of
Haligonians happy.  When it comes to chocolate, usually the best we have
around here is "Toblerone".  It's good, but I wouldn't say it's the best.
The people around here just don't know what they're missing.  Why on earth
people would rather eat "sugarized"-chocolate than "chocoized"-chocolate
is beyond me.

Takk skal du har,
Karen

=============================================================================
Karen Hansen
Technical University of Nova Scotia
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Canada
From: wolfgang@sam.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: EC / EFTA treaty
Date: 13 Apr 92 11:15:22 GMT
Reply-To: wolfgang@prosun.first.gmd.de
Organization: GMD-FIRST, Berlin


Just a little interesting note:

According to our paper, the European court has ruled the (somewhat improved)
EC/EFTA treaty valid now.
So, starting on January, 1, 1993 we'll have a trade Union all over Western-Europe.

--
Wolfgang Diestelkamp
wolfgang@prosun.first.gmd.de
diestelkamp@kmx.gmd.dbp.de
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: fslsh@ocs01.lerc.nasa.gov (Lennart S Hultgren)
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:31:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.071623.18372@eua.ericsson.se> euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman) writes:
>Yngve Koehler Raustein writes:
>
>>There will always be people who use the system for their own benefit, but you're
>>pretty paranoid if you think that this actually amounts to paying twice the
>>amount you would have to pay for your own expenditures.  Are you saying that
>>you object to paying taxes for those unable to care for themselves?
>
>>The basic idea behind taxes in a social democracy is that those who earn the
>>most pay the most, thus supporting those less fortunate.
>
>Let's look at three cases:
>
>1. I'm poor. I can't afford e.g. school for my children. The government
>	pays it for me.
>
>2. I'm not poor, I can (just) afford school for my children. The government
>	takes this money and pays it for me. Since the government has
>	taken my money, I can't afford sending my children to a private
>	school. The government wouldn't pay this for me. I have no
>	freedom to choose which school my children should go to. I say
>	this freedom is a *democratic freedom* q.e.d.        
>
>3. I'm rich. The government takes money from me to pay poor peoples'
>	schools (case 1). I don't mind much. The government also takes
>	money to pay for my childrens' places in public school. I send
>	my children to a private school, and pay for it myself. I have
>	payed for my childrens' school *twice* q.e.d.
>
>>It would be interesting to see if you could actually put together a coherent
>>and constructive criticism of the Swedish welfare state, not just "all we
>>need is lower taxes and more `freedom'."
>
>That's not *all* we need, but we still need it, desperately.
>--
>  ______                     _~
> (_/_ _  _  _/) _  . /)     / ) , _/)     _
>__/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_    (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_

You seem pretty fed-up with the situation in Sweden.  A simple
solution would just be to emigrate to a country where the tax
situation and philosophy is more to your liking.  If you can not find
one that fits your ticket then maybe Scandinavia is not so bad after
all.
--
Lennart S. Hultgren           | SnailMail: Mail Stop 5-9   | Any similarity of 
Email: hultgren@lerc.nasa.gov | NASA Lewis Research Center | my views and those
Voice: (216) 433-6070         | Cleveland, OH 44135        | of my employer are
FAX:   (216) 433-8864         |                            | purely accidental
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:33:12 GMT
	<1992Apr2.180320.23476@eua.ericsson.se>
	<1992Apr2.200607.26556@sunic.sunet.se> <10764@chalmers.se>
	<1992Apr6.072642.26734@eua.ericsson.se>
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista

In article <1992Apr6.072642.26734@eua.ericsson.se> euafri@eua.ericsson.se 
(Fredrik.Ostman) writes:

   >ObDemocraticFreedom: In a country where I have no control over 53% of
   >my income and 20% of my consumption, there is *alot* of room for
   >increased democratic freedom.

  What on earth has this to do with democracy?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: armagan@PRC.Unisys.COM (Armagan Ozdinc)
Subject: Ruling parties in Norden
Reply-To: armagan@prc.unisys.com
Organization: Unisys Corporation, Paoli Research Center; Paoli, PA
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:41:14 GMT

Could someone tell me what the current ruling parties in Nordic countries
(Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark) are? Where do those parties
stand in the political spectrum (social democrat, socialist, far-right,
center-right, etc.)?

----------------------------------------------------------------
 ARMAGAN A. OZDINC
 Paramax, Center for Advanced Information Technology
________________________________________________________________
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Archaic Viking dialect in the news
Date: 8 Apr 92 11:12:08 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <STEINAR.92Apr7202735@faust.solan.unit.no> steinar@faust.solan.unit.no (Cindy Kandolf) writes:
>I'd be interested to hear anything anyone _knows_ about A"lvdalska.

  I once got an instruction in 'how to chop fire-wood' in what I believe
to be A"lvdalska. If it was it sounds like a mix of Dalma'l, Norwegian and
Va"rmla"ndska, and is very hard to understand.

>-Cindy Kandolf

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Reply-To: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Organization: SICS, Kista (Stockholm), Sweden
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 07:06:16 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.212028.14304@lth.se>, sundinKC@dna (Anders Sundin) writes:
>Fredrik \stman writes:
>> This is *no myth*! Planned economy is *inherently* *inefficient*.
>
>No planned economy, is this a new policy at Ericsson? ;-)
>
>Sorry but I couldn't resist. :-)

Seriously, this is a valid issue, even if it does not concertn nordic
countries more than any other.

All companies have a planned economy and restrictions to the personal
freedom of their employees. Libertarians and other right-wingers do
have a problem explaining why this is good for *companies* when it is
not for *countries*. I have read a few libertarian treatisies, and
while they acknowledge the problem, their attempted justifications
seem rather contrived to me.

I guess further discussions about this belong somewhere else than in
soc.culture.nordic.
-- 
Lars-Henrik Eriksson				Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science		Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263					Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN
From: matsd@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (matsd@physchem.kth.se (mats dahlgren))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Fighting Racism?
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:22:10 GMT
Reply-To: matsd@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm

In article <1992Apr8.103952.21984@kth.se>, tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson) writes:
>
>Du gamla, du fria, du fj{llh|ga Nord
>Du tysta, du gl{djerika sk|na
>Jag {lskar dig v{naste land upp} jord
>Din sol din himmel, dina {ngder gr|na
>
>Du tronar p} minnen fr}n fornstora dar
>D} {rat ditt namn fl|g |ver jorden
>Jag vet att du {r och f|rblir vad du var	*
>Ja, jag vill leva, jag vill d| i Norden!
>
>* = there may be an error in this line
                              ^^^^
No, but there are two lines missing, and a minor error in line 3 of the 
first verse.

The correct text is:

Du gamla, du fria, du fj{llh|ga Nord
Du tysta, du gl{djerika sk|na
Jag h{lsar dig v{naste land upp} jord
Din sol din himmel, dina {ngder gr|na
Din sol din himmel, dina {ngder gr|na

Du tronar p} minnen fr}n fornstora dar
D} {rat ditt namn fl|g |ver jorden
Jag vet att du {r och f|rblir vad du var
Ja, jag vill leva, jag vill d| i Norden!
Ja, jag vill leva, jag vill d| i Norden!

mats

********************************************************************************

  mats dahlgren 
  Dept. of Physical Chemistry		Mail:	matsd@physchem.kth.se
  The Royal Institute of Technology	Phone:	+46 8 790 8595
  S-100 44  Stockholm, Sweden           Fax:	+46 8 790 8207

              All opinions expressed above are private opinions.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: Tim Dudley
Subject: Re: Iranian embassy torched
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 13:19:15 GMT

In article <10823@chalmers.se> d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
writes:
>
>  Yesterday a large number (70+) of demonstrators broke through the fence 
>of the Iranian embassy in Stockholm, evaded the two unarmed security-
>company guards and torched six cars, the embassy and a outbuilding. Four
>persons were hurt.
>  Twentyfour persons have been arrested under suspicion of arson, vandalism 
>and violent riot.
>
>  The mujahedin have claimed responsibility for the attack and said that
>is was a retaliation for an Iranian attack against mujahedin camps in Iraq.
>
>-bertil-
>--

Same thing (roughly) happened in Ottawa yesterday, about 40-50 of them;
didn't torch the place, but "stormed" it and managed to cause the 
ambassador some minor injuries.  The cops arrested something like 24
people, but released all but 4 (!) - now the Loyal Opposition (i.e. everybody
who isn't in power) is claiming that the embassy should have been warned
by the Canadian secret service.  Gotta blame somebody...

Tim
From: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: You have to be rich to get the Authorities to listen.
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:36:48 GMT
Reply-To: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm

In article <10816@chalmers.se>, d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
writes:
>
>  More fun things from the Taxation Assessment Authorities and other 
>Authorities:
>
>  [And no, this isn't a April-fools-day joke, even though I wish it were]
>
>  The Swedish Telecommunication Authorities (Televerket) are organized as an
>Aff{rsdivande Verk (Commercial Department) which means that they have the 
>monopoly position of a department and the avarice of a commercial enterprise:)

Actually, Televerket (Swedish Telecom) does *not* have a (legal) 
monopoly position.

>  About half a year ago they started something called the 071-numbers which 
>are commercial services available from third parties on certain numbers with
>a 071 prefix. The type of services seems to be mostly games and heavy 
>breathing judging from the ads in the papers and calling the numbers will
>cost you several SKr per minute. The profit is split between Televerket and 
>the third party.
>
>  I'm pretty sure that there is something similar in the US.

In most countries, I'd say.

Although I seldom have too much praise for the Swedish public sector,
I wouldn't criticise Televerket too much. In general, they have been the 
most "progressive" state-controlled authority. When people have 
Televerket-related complaints, it's often stupid, IMHO, complaints. 
At present, the very cheap local calls only cover about half of their 
costs. This is compensated by too expensive basic annual fees for 
commerical customers, and too high rates on long-range and international 
calls. This should obviously be corrected.

But I do admit that Televerket have made a few things in the past that 
have been bad for their public image.

Tomas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
From: euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: I desperately need lower taxes.
Date: 14 Apr 92 09:15:33 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

wolfgang@sam.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.091839.22392@lth.se> sundinKC@dna.lth.se (Anders Sundin) writes:

>>   [ about him paying for children he's never seen ]
>>   Unless I get children of my own in the future. Then we have better keep
>>   the current system.

>... or you get old, ill etc. Need a heart transplantation, a cancer surgery,
>you-name-it, for say 2 million. Those children you have never seen before
>will pay for you ...

Yes, but they don't have to do it via taxes and the state. Have you ever
heard of insurances? It actually works when my 2-million house burns down.
We don't have any taxes for that, do we?
--
  ______                     _~
 (_/_ _  _  _/) _  . /)     / ) , _/)     _
__/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_    (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_
Xref: sparky soc.culture.nordic:2601 soc.culture.europe:3499 eunet.politics:570
From: abraham@iesd.auc.dk (Per Abrahamsen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics
Subject: Re: Increasing amount of people against EU in Denmark
Date: 3 Apr 92 04:11:24 GMT
Organization: HUGIN Expert A/S


>>>>> On 2 Apr 92 14:02:13 GMT, karl@diku.dk (Karl-Christian Hansen) said:

Karl> No. A no to the Union is a NO to materialism, [...]
				 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That is exactly what the pro-union people will claim, although they
probably will use slightly different words.