HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: olga@csiatl.Gwinnett.COM (olga from the volga)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 8 Oct 92 10:28:28 GMT

stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Phillips) writes:

> In-Reply-To: <1992Oct3.154349.24614@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.
> 
> > +From         : stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
> > +Subject      : Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love aliv
> > 
> > The obligation to God is clear; Jews do NOT marry non-Jews, period.
> 
> Unfortunately they do, and in ever increasing numbers.
> 
> > If that isn't enough, then a person shouldn't be so selfish as to
> > ignore the devastating effect such a marriage will have on her
> > parents.
> 
> In the many cases I have come across there has been no such
> "devastating effect" as the parents have not led a religious life and
> could hardly expect their children to.


This is not necessarily true.  My great aunt, who is now 79 intermarried when 
she was in her 30's.  This was in the 1940's- 1950's. I don't know 
exactly what year she got married.  Anyway, my greatgrandparents (her
parents) were Orthodox Jews and practiced! BTW, my great uncle is now 
92 and they are still married!




> 
> >          In the extreme case, the parents can declare the child dead
> > and go through the appropriate mourning rituals; is any child so
> > wicked as to put his or parents through that?
> 
> What do you term "the extreme case". In practice today I don't think
> that parents do, or should, sit Shivah for children who marry out. A
> case arose recently in my Wife's family and I was not certain as to
> how we should be reacting. I asked a good friend of mine who is a
> Rabbi and a considerable Talmid Chochom. He told me that his own
> brother had married out some years before. His reaction was to
> maintain contact with his brother in the hope that one day he would
> "return to the fold".
> 
> I heard of another case where the mother of a son who had married out
> consulted with one of the Dayanim of the London Beis Din. The advice
> again was that she should not break off contact with her son.
> 
> I think, therefore, that matters are not as clear cut as you would
> have them.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Stephen (Yisroel) Phillips      Tel: 44-895-442141
> Burch Phillips & Co.            Fax: 44-895-421231
> 63a Station Road
> West Drayton
> Middlesex
> UB7 7LR
> United Kingdom                  stephenp@compulink.co.uk
> 
> *****************************************************************************
> **************** A G'MAR VECHASIMAH TOVAH TO ONE AND ALL ********************
> *****************************************************************************


olga@csiatl.gwinnett
YOW!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: allender@ils.nwu.edu (Laura Allender)
Subject: Re: Attending a More Traditional Service
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:45:08 GMT

faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
> On Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:41:58 GMT, shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) said:
> 

> What Eliot says is true. Some of these practices are still followed, some are
> no longer followed. Examples:
> 
> 	Services on Sunday		No longer done 
			--> except the standard weekday service
	
> 	Choirs				Still present, often w/cantor

> 	Sermons				Still present 
			--> in Conservative & Reform Synagogues 

> 	Much liturgy in vernacular	Still present 
> 	Confirmation Ceremony		Still present 
                           (10th grade graduation)
			--> Confirmation at a Reform
			    Temple just does not have the
			    same meaning as at a Church 
                            -- just ask a Christian who was confirmed 
			--> this is like comparing a bris/naming
                            ceremony to a baptism, we just use the 
			    same English word to describe it. Maybe
			    they were similar once, but they are no
			    longer related procedures.

> 	Consecration Ceremony		Still present (Start of rel. school)
					-- Not at all schuls
> 
> Many of the practices once discarded by german reform have returned also.
> Examples:
> 
> 	PRACTICE			STATUS
> 	Wearing of Kippah in Temple	Returning
> 	Wearing of Tallit in Temple	Returning
> 	Bar Mitzvahs			Returned
> 	Use of Hebrew			Returned
> 	Observance of Kashrut		Growing Return
> 	Circumcision			Never really left
> 	Two-day holiday observance	Returning
> 	Use of cantors			Returning
> 	Use of chuppahs/ketubahs	Returned
> 
> Daniel
> --
> [W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
> [Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
>    "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
> 	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"



Laura
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: Yom Kippur Question
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:11:42 GMT

In article <CPLS13-091092080522@145.1.92.160> CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn) writes:
>In article <29710@ursa.bear.com>, millman@indigo.bear.com (Phillip Millman)
>wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I was under the impression that we didn't were leather shoes on Yom Kippur.
>> But at shul I noticed some men wearing Rockports (Rubber Soles).  When
>> I inquired they said that the law is for leather soles on shoes.
>> 
>> Which is right and wear does the law come from?
>> 
>> Phillip Millman
>> millman@bear.com
>> --
>> Phillip Millman					millman@bear.com
>> The opinions expressed are those of Phillip Millman and not that of 
>> Bear Stearns & Co. Inc.  I think it is better that way.
>
>I don't know the exact origin, but the wearing of shoes with ANY leather at
>all is prohibited (at least in halachic circles!)
>
>Steven Cohn
>Motorola CoveragePLUS Engineering
>CPLS13@EMAIL.MOT.COM


Many dress shoes (that look like leather uppers) are actually made
of artificial material and would be halachically permitted.  There
is of course the problem of "maris ayin" (appearing to do something
wrong) but that is another matter.  Another oddity of modern
fashion is that many sneakers will have strips of leather (suede, I
believe, is also a type of leather) attached which will make them
forbidden.

We then get the situation that the shoes which look forbidden are
permitted while the shoes which look permitted are forbidden.

_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
From: krovetz@sydney.cs.umass.edu (Bob Krovetz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Sermons
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:52:30 GMT
Reply-To: krovetz@cs.umass.edu (Bob Krovetz)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <FAIGIN.92Oct14042426@solarium.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>Note the distinction between a sermon (which may have no relation to the Torah
>portion) and the droshas that do. 
>
>Daniel
>(sorry for being so brief -- I'm on travel this week with a noisy phone line)
>--
>[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
>[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
>   "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
>	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"

Hmmm.  Most of the talks I have heard in Conservative synagogues have had
some relation to the Torah portion (in fact, I can't think of any that
were not related).  Is it common in a Reform service to have sermons which
are unrelated to the Torah portion?  What is the history behind incorporating
drosha's/sermons in the service?

Bob

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: Bradley Somer <somer@aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: Re: BIG NOSES
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <Bradley Somer <somer@aecom.yu.edu>>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 13:25:58 GMT



On Sat, 10 Oct 1992, Mitchell Kotler wrote:

> I'm Jewish so don't get mad but why do so many of us have
> large noses?  Is this some ethnic trait?  I know it's not
> all Jews , of course, but I wonder how this whole "nose"
> thing got started in the first place.
> 

-Because air is free.


I,m Jewish to so don,t  get mad.
It,s a famous joke.
BGS
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosher Honey
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:58:10 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio

In article <1992Oct15.152329.15610@eskimo.celestial.com> chips@eskimo.celestial.com (:crp:) writes:
>Why is honey kosher?
>Is there any other food that comes from something treif that is kosher?
>Does honey need a hechsher?

While ordinarily an animal product must come from a kosher animal,
(or bird, fish, insect, ...) since honey is mentioned it is
specifically permitted.  And honey appears in Torah and throughout
the Bible, perhaps its most flavorful and sensual usage in Song of Songs.

After Joseph asked that Benjamin be brought to him in Egypt, as Judah
is about to depart with Benjamin, his father says pack gifts, ...
honey ...  [ Gen 43:11 ]

Perhaps the most famous use is G-d's promise to bring us "unto a
land flowing with Milk and Honey."  [ Ex 3:17 ]

So if, as some people do, a hechsher is demanded for milk, so some
demand it with honey, since honey could be adulterated with products
before you get it.

Some uses of honey apparently mean fruit juice and not bee honey.
Lev. 2:11 discusses items used as part of a sacrificial offering.
The Rashi on this, e.g., makes it clear that fruit juice and not
bee honey is meant.

=========
Along these lines, mother's milk is an interesting category; kosher
under the right conditions; prohibited otherwise.   And I don't know
of anyone who gives it a hechsher :^)
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Leslie Bishko)
Subject: OK, it's not really about sexism!
Keywords: apologies, and animated films of Yiddish stories
Organization: Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:50:26 GMT

Thanks to all who have responded via email to my posting about
attending a Bar Mitzvah.  Some of you have pointed out that I may not
have been in an Orthodox synagogue, ok.  Some are angry that I joined
my stepmother the pushy attorney and sat in the men's section.  Some
are angry that I wore culottes!  Well, here I have to defend myself.
I was an out-of-town guest and hadn't packed a dress!

My post was never intended to offend.  Please forgive my naivetee and
superficial Jewish education!  I suppose my intent was to simply
describe my first encounter with the gender thing in the context of
being in an Orthodox (perhaps) synagogue, and mention my conflicted
feelings about it.

My life these days brings me in contact with other Jews on very rare
occaisions.  Although I'm not observing Judaism in a formal sense, I've
realized that Judaism is an important aspect of my identity.  I find that
I communicate well with other Jews.  From time to time, in social
circles, I feel that being Jewish sets me apart from others.  So,
while my busy life keeps me from seeking out a Jewish context in
which to interact with others, I'm interested in reading and posting
to s.c.j.  I'm interested in your SUPPORT, not in starting FLAMES!!!

                      --         -         --

NOW SOMETHING ELSE - I've been inspired by an anthology of Yiddish
stories to make a series of animated films.  I'll collaborate with my
brother (a more devout Jew than I,) who's been playing Klezmer music.  
This project is a few years down the road for me.  I'm hoping to get
permission from the translators of the stories - and see if they
might advise me.  Perhaps Yiddish narration?  I'll need funding!  I'd 
like to see these films make their way into Hebrew schools AND
receive distribution to the general public.

If anyone out there has ideas, suggestions, names of contacts, possible
funding sources, screening venues, etc., or would like to become involved,
please drop me a line.  This way I can get some planning done and
start making the films a little sooner.

Thanks again,
 - Leslie
-- 
Leslie Bishko
leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu
From: friedenb@emerald.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Jews on the US Supreme Court
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:04:44 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@emerald.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University


I was playing Tradition (basically Jewish-Trivial Pursuit), and got a
question about the first Jewish US Supreme Court Justice.  I guessed
Louis Brandeis because I figured that he (Brandeis) was the *only*
Jewish Supreme Court Justice.  I was wrong.  (Unfortunately I do not
have the question card with me, and I don't remember the name of the
correct answer).

How many Jewish Supreme Court Justices have there been in the US?  
At least two (Brandies, and the man from the Tradition question)?

Thanks,

Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University

                   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re:  The I-can't-believe-they-got-a-hescher-on-this thread
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:47:18 GMT

zalman@cumc.cornell.edu (Zalman Suldan) writes:
>Are these wafers Pas yisroel???

I don't know.  Perhaps Yeshu was a Kohen or Levi.

-Don Gertler
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:17868 soc.culture.polish:3228
From: aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: _Protocols_ at a church?
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:54:40 GMT


In article <Bw829F.1t0@rice.edu> lawera@stat.rice.edu (Martin Lawera) writes:
>I am not familiar with this book. Could somebody please tell me:
>1. What is this book about? Is it fiction or something else?
>2. What exactly makes it anti-Semitic? (please, don't forget to
>include your definition of anti-Semitism).
>
>Thank you.
>
>Martin

Well, I think that it would be convincing if somebody also could
bring us a paragraph or fragment from that book that one considers
the most anti-Semitic - explaining why that fragment is so anti-Semitic.
That would clarify a lot for many of us who did not read that book.

A. Mazur
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: holmes@opal.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: Boise State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:37:29 GMT

In article <1TuHsB2w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:
>> In article <CFMRBYYR@cc.swarthmore.edu> mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Melanie We
>> >I was born Jewish and I had an Orthodox Jewish education.  I have abandoned
>> >Judaism because I came to recognize that it is sexist to the core.  The
>> >Tanach is a patriarchal body of literature which completely invalidates the
>> >history, experience, and contribution of women.  Jewish law, at least
>> >Orthodox Jewish law, is degrading to women.  Is there anyone out there who
>> >feels the same way?
>
>I can't help but whether you in fact received an Orthodox "education" or 
>perhaps "indoctrination?"  I myself have received a good Conservative 
>_education_ that was as much a process of personal exploration as it was 
>a classroom education.  I have found little conflict between my religious 
>beliefs and the realities of living in the 1990's.  I find that my 
>personal exploration of Judaism and Jewish thought helps me to navigate 
>through life as well as my talmudic studies have honed my analytical 
>abilities that carry me through the professional day.  I have known many 
>O people that are capable of this kind of thought as well, although I'm 
>sad to say this attitude is slightly less frequent in O circles.
>
>I hope you become convinced that abandoning Judaism because of a poor 
>educational environment is not necessary.  Your questions at least 
>indicates a possibility that something is missing from your life.  
>Perhaps it is a religious tie to your community and family that can fill 
>whatever void may be there.
>
>Todd

The point about "education" versus "indoctrination" is exactly one
that I was trying to make in an earlier posting.

-- 
The opinions expressed		|     --Sincerely,
above are not the "official"	|     M. Randall Holmes
opinions of any person		|     Math. Dept., Boise State Univ.
or institution.			|     holmes@opal.idbsu.edu
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: BIG NOSES
Keywords: Joke!
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:57:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Oct14.135713.1893
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <92434@netnews.upenn.edu> hlevene@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
(Howard Levene) writes:

>Well, I don't know about you, but big noses RUN in my family!!

And if, simultaneously, you found your feet smell, would we say you were
built upside down?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: krovetz@sydney.cs.umass.edu (Bob Krovetz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Amsterdam recommendations
Date: 13 Oct 92 07:39:37 GMT
Reply-To: krovetz@cs.umass.edu (Bob Krovetz)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst


In article <1992Oct12.205736.989@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
>I will be in Amsterdam (really Utrecht) for POSIX meetings
>next week.  Can anyone make some recommendations for
>a Synagogue for Simchas Torah?  I will be arriving early
>Sunday morning, staying for just under a week.
>
>Also appreciate recommendations on sites of interest
>Jewish and otherwise.  I expect to visit the Anne Frank
>house, dockworkers' monument, and Portuguese Synagogue.
>(How's the Portuguese synagogue for Simchas Torah?)
>Also of course the Rembrandt house.  Any others?
>
>
>		Thanks in advance,
>		Seth Rosenthal


There is a booklet available from the tourist office (just
opposite from the train station) that provides a walking
tour of the sites of Jewish interest.  The walk takes about
two hours and takes you past several of the places you
mentioned (there's also a Jewish Museum right next to the 
Portuguese Synagogue).  A canal cruise is also a nice way 
to see the city.  In terms of non-Jewish sites, I would 
recommend the Rijksmuseum and the Van Gogh museum.  
Amsterdam is also a great city for bicycles, and there are
lots of places that rent them.  Have a great time!

Bob


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Intermarriage
Organization: ITEX, Jerusalem, Israel
Date: 10 Oct 92 16:56:01 GMT

In <92123@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:

    While this is true, there used to be a long history of a pecking order
    among American immigrant Jews and their children.  It had Yeckies (aka
    Germans) at the top, and Litvaks somewhere near the bottom, but I never
    did learn the particulars.  Marrying down the pecking order was treated
    as a catastrophe in many families.

Now this *is* racism (OK, someone who doesn't hate *every* Martian,
just those from one nation of Martians doesn't hate the entire race of
Martians, but it's the same type of hate) unlike opposition to
intermarriage, since anyone can convert to Judaism.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very cold mathom.
 |warren@      But the Kibo
/ nysernet.org is not hungry at all.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:56:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.233515.21731@guinness.idbsu.edu> holmes@opal.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.171711.691674@locus.com> hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct15.131650.22385@athena.mit.edu> terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Incognita) writes:
>>> ...
>>>I say this because the role to which Judaism relegates women is pretty
>>>much the same as the role women have been given in almost every social/
>>>ethnic group since the dawn of Western civilization, that of
>>>housekeeper/childbearer/caregiver.  My take on all of this is that
>>> ...
>>
>>Please forgive me for saying so, but I find this statement highly
>>demeaning and insulting. What greater function can there be in life
>>then to raise the next generation of Jewish children to serve G-d?
>>
>>People dedicate their lives to build better machines - and that's
>>understandable and acceptable to us. But when they dedicate their lives
>>to build better human beings, that is unacceptable, mundane and
>>trivial???
>>
>>Does this not sound like a warped sense of values?
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>Hayim Hendeles
>
>What is noble when it is a voluntary choice becomes unbearable when it
>is made mandatory.
>

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head here. And that's one of the reasons
why the mitzvoh of Pru Urvu (being frutiful and multiplying - aka
getting married and having children) is incumbent upon the men only
and not on the women. Men are obligated to marry, women are not.

And therefore, for the women who decides to dedicate her life to
raise another generation of human beings, and to devote all her efforts
to mold and shape these human beings so they should
be a testimony to G-d ---- you have to give them all the credit
in the world, and that's still not enough. Perhaps that's why the
Talmud says women's ultimate reward is greater then man's.

Sincerely,
Hayim Hendeles