HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<1992Sep1.010318.19818@cfctech.cfc.com> <23600@alice.att.com>
	<1992Sep1.154036.7765@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
	<1992Sep02.011137.5510@anomaly.sbs.risc.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:20:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep02.011137.5510@anomaly.sbs.risc.net> kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan) writes:
   Limitation are regularly placed on postings by each receiving site. Some
   sites even ignore your pre-defined Distribution lines.

In language that I think describes the way net software interprets
Distribution headers, Distribution: xyzzy is a set of interconnected
systems that agree (have been configured) to forward such articles to
each other.  The fact that Distributions correspond somewhat to
geographical or logical areas is useful, but not necessarily
completely accurate.  (Of course, some sites may truly ignore the
Distribution header, but I don't think that's what you're talking
about.)

What I'm saying is that the fact that a .ca site receives
Distribution: usa is not because some site ignored your specification;
it's because you used a tool that's not applicable to the purpose, if
you wanted to prevent this.  The screwdriver is not at fault if it's
used when a different tool is required.

   >A poster, posts an article (the 
   >acceptance).  The network accepts the post (the poster's consideration)
   >and the network distributes it (the networks consideration).

   A computer accepts my posting and my computer cannot enter into a legal
   contract with another party.

Computers are configured and used by humans, who can and do enter
implicit and explicit agreements by using the net.

You accept the net's services when you post.  The fact that you didn't
understand the services or expected some other behavior doesn't
mitigate this fact.

I think we're getting confused by the term `contract', but I think
the previous paragraph interprets the spirit of the definitions as
implemented by the net, even if the legality can be argued from now
until doomsday.
--
J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@LaRC.NASA.Gov> +1 804/864-2148
employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681-0001
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: ahn@ac.wfunet.wfu.edu (Dave Ahn)
Subject: newsgroups
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 20:42:22 GMT
X-Posted-From: ac.wfunet.wfu.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I'm running an NNTP client and using NN as the newsreader. We don't have
a newsfeed, so we're using a remote NNTP server.
Is there a way to create a local newsgroup for users on the client system?
That is, we don't send the posting article to the server.
Is this possible?

Please post here or send mail to me at ahn@wfunet.wfu.edu.

Thank you in advance!
-dka
-- 
Dave Ahn
ahn@wfunet.wfu.edu
Xref: sparky news.admin:7258 alt.censorship:7160
From: rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Hasan B Mutlu
Date: 30 Aug 92 13:51:56 GMT
Organization: Xanth Watch

dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:

>Personally, if he is posting news and not screwing up the flow of it,
>he's fine by me. IF I get wind of the fact that he is being denied
>news access simply because he's posted lots of articles...I will grant
>him access. 

The trouble with Mutlu is not his just his volume (that only determines
the size of his "influence") it's that he has broken every single
net.etiquette rule in existence. It doesn't help to put him in a kill
file, many people are still clueless enough to follow up on his postings.
The resulting huge amount of noise has brought several soc.culture
groups to the edge of collapse: outrageous signal/noise ratio and flamers
lurking around ready to jump into _any_ thread and destroy it.
-- 
Jesper Lauridsen        |  I survived the rec.arts.sf-lovers split
rorschak@daimi.aau.dk   |
From: Eric_S_Klien@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Question About Multiple Posting
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 03:49:24 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

I received the following message a couple days ago and my mail to the
sender was not responded to.  What do others think of Werner's
message?  Should I limit advertising of my free electronic matching
service to a few select groups or should I advertise in many places
expecting that few people will be exposed to my ads in much more than
one collection.  Note that I haven't been receiving a lot of
complaints so far, but I'm sure that other complaints will appear
over time assuming that I continue to post ads.  Note that I, of
course, do not post in areas where I am told it is inappropriate to.
 
Relevant message:
 
From: Werner Uhrig <werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu>
 
> 
> Texan women, having a problem finding a Texan man?  I am about to 
> launch a free electronic matching service on Usenet.  Thanks to the 
> imbalance of men to women on Usenet, more guys than gals have 
> expressed an interest so far.  If you would like to see the fifth 
> draft of my questionnaire so we can alter it to also fit women's 
> needs as well as men's, either send me mail or look at the copy I 
> posted in alt.personals.  
>  
> This service is serious and I already have 337 men and 191 women
> signed up so far.  The site of the service has already been selected
> and programming is nearly completed.
>  
>                                                           Eric Klien
> 
 
Eric,
 
I am getting pretty annoyed at seeing dozens and dozens of articles
with a variationon this theme individually posted to nearly every
newsgroup under the sun.  I suggest that you cut out this stuff,
if for no other reason than that it seems to cross the border
of "recreational" usage and smells of "ulterior motives".
And if you consider yourself a "do-gooder", well, then do
good and create a track-record with one nationality/group
before you spread this goo all over creation...
 
---Werner
 
CC: postmaster@portal.com,  news.admin,  news.admin.policy
 
  werner@cs.utexas.edu |  ..!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!werner | werner@UTXVM.bitnet
     -----------
   Woody Allan always seemed such a likable BRILLIANT troubled man....
       the way Mia tells it, he may be just plain ol' sick....
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: news@wolves.uucp (The Wolfe of the Den)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: Why we need a "Copyright: " field (was: Re: NetNews/CD . . .)
Date: 31 Aug 92 01:17:50 GMT
Organization: Wolves Den UNIX
X-Md4-Signature: cd0b5aad1abebe586974a5adf5ec0b81

In article <1992Aug29.203834.24655@lth.se> 
bengtl@maths.lth.se (Bengt Larsson) writes:
>
>jj is right, alt was created specifically to not be Usenet (no rules).

	Not quite. Alt.* was created using the "standard" usenet
mechanisms when the "Backbone Cabal" would not approve rec.sex.  In the
first few months of its existence various folks made efforts to assure
its connectivity by creating new links for netnews traffic that avoided
the backbone sites.  These links transferred most of the newsgroups that
were available, not just "alt" and ended up producing a more redundant
and stronger usenet distribution system.
	The real proliferation of alt groups began well after the demise
of the "cabal", when some folks started creating alt.* groups without
*any* coordination or courtesy.  Prior to that, there was still some
civility in alt.config and a semblance of order.
	Alt was created as an alternative to the controlled portions of
Usenet, not as a totally seperate entity.  There has always been a
linkage in the routing and carrying of the main hierarchies and the
"alt" groups.  All that alt was intended to do was to sidestep the
"control freaks of the backbone cabal."

	All debates over whether "alt" is or isn't usenet devolve into
the same "is not/is too" harangues that you decry in the paragraphs that
I elided.

>>The alt (and other hierarchies) may not be part of the usenet
>>you grew to love and cherish, but, as has been said, usenet
>>is a constantly growing community.  
>
>When I talked about copyrights on "Usenet" I didn't think of alt.
>Indeed, I don't know what to think about copyrights on newsgroups in
>alt. I assumed mainstream (big 7). 

	What in the hell kind of difference does it make?  The laws that
exist apply equally to the "Seven Sisters" and any of the alternative
hierarchies that are carried via the usenet general mechanism.

	The silliness of the argument is getting higher and higher, and
it is climbing into the a range where the gillie rating is getting >10!

	The *law* is that copyright exists on a work fixed in a tangible
medium. period.  Adding copyright headers or some other "quick fix" will
not work since there is no way to enforce the adoption of the headers or
the "sanctity" of their contents.

	Those who wish to release their works into the public domain can
easily do so in their signatures, just as JJ places an attempt to limit
his exposure in his.

	This debate will never die and will not be resolved until
someone, somewhere gets up in front of a judge andor jury and gets a
ruling on just how the existing laws apply to the computer networks.
-- 
Usenet Net News Administrator @ The Wolves Den  (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
news%wolves@cs.duke.edu     ...duke!wolves!news     "We don't need no
There is a real person who watches this account.   stinking disclaimers"
Xref: sparky news.admin:7407 misc.legal.computing:2063
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: news.admin,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:16:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23613
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Sep1.204533.13221@gtephx.UUCP> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
>In article <1992Aug29.060506.12868@anomaly.sbs.risc.net>, kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan) writes:
>Then please explain how a person could ever sue for breech of contract?
There is no contract, that's the point.  What one sues for would have
nothing whatsoever to do with breach of contract.  It would quite rightfully
be for violation of copyright and copyright license.
-- 
Extremism *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   in the    *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
  defense of     *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 liberty is no vice.  *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: mlj44080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael Lee Jacobs)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.sf.babylon5
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 01:56:25 GMT

Well i have never responded to a CFD or RFD or a UTBFD (up the butt...)
but I for one am STRONGLY in favor of this newsgroup simply because I hate
having to scrounge over several others searching for the occasional oft
bad described B5 post.
`:wq

-- 
  "If the best things in life are free, then my current price is
   $37k with a 10% downpayment."

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.sys.stratus
Keywords: Stratus, VOS, FTX, fault tolerant, news, mailing list
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:45:39 GMT

In article <5884@transfer.stratus.com> moser@sw.stratus.com (Tom Moser) writes:
>I would favor something like comp.sys.ft-avail to discuss all
>fault tolerant and high-availability platforms. Limiting the group to
>Stratus invites creating several other groups to discuss the same topics
>as they relate to other vendors. Having one central group for all ft and
>high availability topics is probably a better idea.

That sounds like a comp.arch subgroup, not a comp.sys one.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: klassen@sol.UVic.CA (Melvin Klassen)
Subject: Re: RFD: Removal of Unused Newsgroups
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, B.C. CANADA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 19:27:53 GMT

In article <*> aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman) writes:
>	Procedural Details:
>		1) Unconditional CFR -- Which takes effect no matter what 
>		   upon verifaction [sic] of the CFR vote.
1. Gee!  No reason to vote, if it's a foregone conclusion!

2. Perhaps, the Procedural Details should state that the motion-to-remove 
   must be stated positively, i.e., do **not** allow:

      Motion: CFR: It is moved that NEWS.ANNOUNCE.NEWGROUPS be retained.
 
   If less than 100 votes are received, then this vote will fail,
   and the newsgroup **must** be removed!
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: sridhar@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman)
Subject: Re: soc.culture.indian.american
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:10:11 GMT

FURRJK@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU writes on news.groups:

)Did someone forget to mention that the reason an awful lot of people cited
)as the reason for voting against soc.culture.indian.american was the fact
)that its name was a crawling horror from the sewers of hell, or whatever
)that phrase is the DaSilvas like?  As I said at the time, everyone I asked

"screaming horror(s) from the sewers of hell" I think. :-)

)(a couple dozen people, if I recall correctly) assumed that soc.culture.
)indian.american was about American Indians.  Native Americans.  Amerinds.
)EVERYONE assumed that.  When I told them that it was intended to be about
)ASIAN Indians living in the USA, they all went "Huh?"

I refuse to believe that all this happened because of one guy's
ignorance. The choice of which guy (in 1492 or 1991) is left to the
reader. :-)

)When the six months finish elapsing from the last defeat of soc.culture.
)indian.american, I hope that if it must be dragged out again, it will have
)a better name proposed.  If the backers obstinately propose to call it
)'soc.culture.indian.american' again, it's gonna get pounded again.  Sigh.

If you missed it, there is a 'alt.culture.us.asian-indian' and the
last time I saw it, it was doing pretty well.

)Anyway, this is just my $0.02 worth on this whole 'USENET-is-out-to-get-you'
)hoorah, s.c.i.a. Lost Cause-ites.

Never mind. If anyone is out to get Alok, perhaps they are having a
tough time at work.:)

Sridhar.
From: paul@devon.lns.pa.us (Paul Sutcliffe Jr.)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: comp.unix.* reorganization
Keywords: worthless
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:56:08 GMT
Organization: Personal System, Lancaster, PA, USA

peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

>In article <1992Aug19.010250.7374@devon.lns.pa.us> paul@devon.lns.pa.us (Paul Sutcliffe Jr.) writes:
>>peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>>"Which is better, Computone whizzbang or Digiboard Geewhiz?"

>>That's not a UNIX issue, it's a HARDWARE issue.  Note that Computone
>>and Digiboard products work with {PC,MS}-DOS and PICK, as well as UNIX.

>I am honestly puzzled. What on earth would you do with a multiport serial
>card in a single-user operating system? Pick I can understand, but MS-DOS
>needs Digiboard like a fish needs an umbrella.

>>Put it in comp.sys.ibm.{pc,ps2}.hardware.

>No, because even if DOS drivers are available the criteria which a DOS
>user would use would most likely be meaningless to a UNIX user [...]

The OS has nothing to do with it.  The .hardware groups are for hardware
issues.  Your "Which is better" question is a hardware issue, at lease IMHO.

- paul
-- 
INTERNET:  paul@devon.lns.pa.us      |    Why doesn't anything ever
UUCP:      ...!rutgers!devon!paul    |    vanish into THICK air?  --Me
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: sjsobol@wariat.org (Steven J. Sobol)
Subject: alt.tv.dinosaurs? Does it exist??
Followup-To: poster
Organization: The Tiny Software Co., via APK Public Access Unix, Cleveland
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 02:15:48 GMT


Looking for a newsgroup for fans of the ABC-TV series "Dinosaurs."

Thanks
*--TechnoGeek--*
-- 
***  **  ** | The Tiny Software Co.  23707 Glenhill  Cleveland OH 44122
 *  *   *   | Steve Sobol * President * sjsobol@tiny.com or tiny!sjsobol 
 *   *  *   | Alternate addresses: sjsobol@wariat.org or ag510@po.cwru.edu
 *    * *   | Disclaimer: I *AM* the Tiny Software Company. 
 *  **   ** | **Welcome to Ohio, the Land of the Orange Construction Barrel**
From: alvin@netcom.com (Alvin H. White)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.communication.speech
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:40:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

furrjk@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr) writes:

>This is a Request for Discussion on a newsgroup to discuss aspects of
>speech communication, oratory, and public speaking.  As a member of
>Toastmasters International, I am very interested in discussing effective
>speech communication, but I see no newsgroups out there that would be
>an appropriate place for such discussions.  I have tried in various ones
>and received some email but most of it was 'take it out of this group,
>there's got to be a more appropriate place'.

>Hence I'd like to see if there's any interest in a public speaking
>newsgroup.  I would have liked to propose the name misc.public-speaking
>but that's too long, by one character.  misc.publicspeaking sounds odd
>to me.  I'd like comment on the appropriate name for this newsgroup,
>if any, and I'd also like to know if there is sufficient interest.


Libraries have people who classify books. Now that I think
about it, they must have books classified by subject. Maybe
the subjects would be something like Public Speaking. I 
guess then, your objective is to map across to the usenet
newsgroup hiarchy, I can see I don't know how to spell 
"hiarchy".

My opinion is that eventually the ANGLO-AMERICAN CATALOGING
RULES II, i.e. second edition or later, will be a close
approximation for a mapping of usenet topics.  We are not
there yet. 

I don't know what would be involved with starting groups
 "public.speaking" or "speaking.public" or "speech.public".


alvin@netcom.com

Alvin H. White, Gen. Sect.
G.O.D.S.B.R.A.I.N.
1505 De Rose Way #66 
San Jose, CA 95126 USA

(408) 286-2794
(408) 286-4244

Government Online Database Systems
Bureau for Resource Allocations to Information Networks
[an idea waiting to happen]

120 West 38 North
Xref: sparky news.groups:17416 misc.legal:16794
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.babylon5
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:15:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Sep4.161522.28868
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School

In <Bu229A.KIv@apollo.hp.com> @apollo.HP.COM (Jennifer E. Levine) writes:

>I will vote for an alt.tv.babylon5

That's the beauty of alt.tv.* groups... they require no vote.

>Although the show is not out yet it has gotten alot of attention and
>discussion. There are lots of posts about it in the ST heirarchy. 

Where they do not belong. Use the Followups-To: line to redirect the
discussion to rec.arts.sf.tv.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business

	"I hate Vulcans!  I hate the logic!  I hate the arrogance!"
		-Sela
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.sf.tv.blakes7
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:39:34 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School

In <1992Sep2.202418.1749@pei.com> fred_s@earwax.pei.com (Fred Scott) writes:

[post by hades deleted for space]

>By that logic, rec.arts.star_trek shouldn't be have been created either.  I
>guess a lot people probably disagree with you about that.

And a lot of people would agree as well. The problem with the startrek
groups is that Star Trek discussion encompasses movies, tv, conventions,
cartoons, models, books, and a range of other junk. The volume is so huge
that no one else really has any interest in sorting through it in a
general sf group (and I can't say I blame them).

Either way you look at it Star Trek is a special case. 1) it is an unusual
situation which rates its own group OR 2) it was all a big mistake that
cannot be fixed.

>I think what you actually *mean* - but aren't admitting for some reason - is
>that you think Blake's 7's popularity will die out after a couple of years.
>That's for a vote to decide.

The show generates almost NO discussion. Why don't you try to discuss the
show enough to represent a signifigant share of the traffic on
rec.arts.tv, rec.arts.sf.tv or rec.arts.tv.uk? THEN consider a separate
group.

A specific group for a single TV show is basically a bad idea, YES there
are exceptions to that but they represent far more established phenomena
like Star Trek and Dr. Who. I never even heard of Blakes 7 before this
discussion. When I searched for articles on the subject outside of
news.groups I found MAYBE a dozen articles. A dozen articles does not a
newsgroup make.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business

                         "Microsoft Word to Your Mother."
                              - Computer Rap Geeks
From: aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Splitting news.groups?
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:24:12 GMT
Organization: Marsnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Sep3.183650.3808@prpa.philips.com> pierre@prpa.philips.com (Pierre Uszynski) writes:
>In <1992Sep2.173511.8446@sniap.mchp.sni.de> Mathias.Koerber@sniap.mchp.sni.de (Mathias Koerber) writes:

The orginal idea:
>>news.groups.brainstorm:		General talk and blabber
>>news.groups.d:			everything from RFD onwards
>>news.newgroups.announce:	just as it is..results etc

The modifaction:
>news.groups.procedure
>news.groups.discussion	from RFD onwards (formal Discussion Period)
>news.groups.misc	misc
>news.groups.results	post vote: contested votes, flames, etc
>news.newgroups.announce	as is now (follow up to the above groups)

I like the second much more.  But is n.g.r needed?  Maybe a better group name
for n.g.p whould be news.policy and broden it's charter to include which whould
cover all net wide procedures, such as propagation, newsgroup life cycles, 
the s/n problem, etc.