HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Subject: Re: What is United States of America like?
Reply-To: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Telstar
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:30:53 GMT

In article <ATAYLOR.92Dec24172549@gauss.nmsu.edu> ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) writes:
><In article <1992Dec22.194125.14451@kadsma.kodak.com> pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek) writes:<
>
><   >It has been *legal* for *years* for IRS enforcement personnel to seize
><   >the assets of people whom they accuse of nonpayment of taxes owed. This
><   >seizure can take place *before* guilt or innocence is established, and
><   >recovery of assets in the event that the case falls apart has proven
><   >to be problematic. The courts have *not* been striking this down.
><   >
>,   >Do you plan to write your congress-critter about *both* abuses of con-
><   >stitutional liberties?
><   >-- 
>
><
><   Are you suggesting that because the IRS has been doing this stuff,
><   I must: a) support the IRS in this behavior, and b) accept the idea
><   that, because the IRS has been doing it, it is now a valid precedent
><   for all law enforcement agencies?
>	
><   As I recall, the Bill of Rights contains a provision regarding
><   'unreasonable searches and seizures'. I would categorize both the
><   IRS and DEA seizures as 'unreasonable'. Unfortunately, the Reagan/Bush
><   Supreme Court, led by that friend of individual liberty, William
><   Rehnquist, doesn't agree.
>
>	Are you asserting that the IRS did not have the power
>	to seize assets until 1981?
>
>	Guess again, Pajerek.
>

	Guess again, Nosy. I'm asserting no such thing.

>	And don't count on Frat Boy Bill Clinton, the "workingman's
>	friend", to do *anything* about it.

'Frat Boy Clinton?' I see, I must now be grateful to 'Skull and Bones'
Bush for his dedicated support for individual liberty?

And exactly who, besides you, dragged Clinton into this anyway? I'm
not much concerned about Clinton's opinions, since he doesn't sit
on the Supreme Court. I am concerned about the opinions of those who
do, and who have a clear track record of supporting the state over the
individual.


Don Pajerek

Standard disclaimers apply.
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Rape After Rape After Rape
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:56:43 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:

>In article <1296500460@igc.apc.org> pnmideast@igc.apc.org writes:
>:Listen guys,
>:When I first heard about the rapes I was skeptical too. But
>:when I saw reports ie.below, I started to rethink.
>:
>:---
>:The stream of survivor testimonies which we came across, together with
>:the work of other organisations throughout Croatia and information
>:gathered in refugee camps throughout Europe, prompted our investigation
>:into the systematic sexual atrocities being committed against women in

>The reporting on British TV hasn't been able to find a single first-hand
>witness.  Plenty of second-hand witnesses.  There are two explanations
>of this.  1) The Moslem women who have been raped cannot bring themselves
>to admit it, for obvious reasons; 2) the stories of rape-camps are a
>combination of either deliberate psychological warfare, or the sort of
>urban-myth style rumours that always fly around war zones (a well known
>dynamic to historians - cf the Crimea, WWI)

>At the moment it's impossible to tell either way, until first-hand evidence
>on a significant scale turns up (ie more than two or three cases).

Is the Red Cross/Crescent or the World Council of Churches significant enough?

..and yes Graham, there HAS been a first hand witness on British TV, a Serbian
soldier captured by the Bosnians and, as these are likely to be the only
first hand witnesses you're likely to get to this sort of crime, you can either
accept what he says, or dismiss it and go look for other accounts. In the
case of the latter, you can ask the victims or those treating the victims.
In the main the information has come from those treating the victims together
with one or two victims themselves. The victims have been interviewed on
BBC Radio 4 on a number of occasions.
Where else do you expect to get the confirmation from. The Serbian soldiers
are hardly likely to walk in front of a TV camera  and say "Hey, we went on
a raping spree last night amongst the Muslim women" are they?..and they're
the only first-hand witnesses they'll be.
The WCC has returned from Bosnia and their report is out today. It's yet
another of a multitude of reports confirming the systematic rape of Bosnian
Muslim women by Serbian troops.

Dave
--
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Inaugural Bash: $17 million
Date: 2 Jan 1993 08:08:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



I just read that Clinton and comrades plan to raise and
spend about $17 million on the inaugural parties, etc.

I voted for Clinton, certainly better than Bush, but it
occurs to me, even though this money is not tax money,
or raised from public coffers, is this really

=====appropriate====

like how many unemployed are there in the U.S. at this
point (no I don't want the D of Labor stats, thanks)?
not to mention the homeless....

Jerry Brown would have spend $53.97 on a wholistic
spiritual communion with the druids.

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
Xref: sparky alt.activism:19833 alt.conspiracy:13416
From: L-Bueno@cup.portal.com (Louis Alberto Bueno)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Rape After Rape After Rape
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 08:24:09 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <BzGL99.IHz@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <BzGoKJ.6wt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
  <1992Dec18.114411.2198@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>

f_gautjw@csvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>I must admit I remain cynical about the article also.  That's not to
>say that atrocities have not occured in the Bosnian conflict.  But this
>article seems "overcooked".  It reminds me of the propaganda stories
>about Iraqi soldiers taking Kuwaiti babies from their hospital incubators.
>These stories were used to pump up the volume and create public interest
>in ridding the world of the great Hitler, Saddam.  I imagine these same
>stories, since discredited, also appeared in UK media.
>
>A more likely explanation is that these stories are simply intelligence
>"plants" to get the public into its ritualistic war dance before our
>sovereign US troops are forced to don their blue helmets and join others
>of the "new world order" in committing their own atrocities in the region. 
 
	Please explain why said article is "overcooked?"  A handful of
stories from among thousands of rapes a bit too much to bear?
 
	As for the Kuwait Incubator story, that came from a *SOLE* source,
I will remind everyone.  It's a bit harder to discredit the truthfulness
of the Balkan rapes considering that there are hundreds of witnesses and
news agencies that are constantly confirming what is too monstrous to
believe.  Perhaps it's not 4,000-10,000 systematic rapes thus far. Perhaps
it's only 400-1,000.  That's still *TOO* much, no matter how much
anyone wants to trivialize it in the global overview sense.
 
Regards,
 
--Louis
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.misc,talk.politics.misc
From: zitsky+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mark Ryan Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Rape After Rape After Rape
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:27:13 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

|> ..and yes Graham, there HAS been a first hand witness on British TV, a Serbian
|> soldier captured by the Bosnians and, as these are likely to be the only
|> first hand witnesses you're likely to get to this sort of crime, you can either
|> accept what he says, or dismiss it and go look for other accounts. In the
|> case of the latter, you can ask the victims or those treating the victims.
|> In the main the information has come from those treating the victims together
|> with one or two victims themselves. The victims have been interviewed on
|> BBC Radio 4 on a number of occasions.

|> The WCC has returned from Bosnia and their report is out today. It's yet
|> another of a multitude of reports confirming the systematic rape of Bosnian
|> Muslim women by Serbian troops.
|> 
|> Dave
|> -- 


I would like very much to find some "original" documentation of these problems
occurring in Bosnia (rather than only hearing it third-hand).  Does anyone
know where I could get a copy of this WCC report???

I think that many people tend not to believe something unless they can see the original source themselves.  It's hard enough to verify such claims without getting the information third-hand.

Thanks.

--Mark
From: pnmideast@igc.apc.org
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:48 PST
Subject: ex-Yugo women's war crime initiati
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296500461:000:2138
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!pnmideast    Dec 21 00:48:00 1992


From: <pnmideast>
Subject: ex-Yugo women's war crime initiati

/* Written  5:12 pm  Dec 20, 1992 by hrcoord@igc.apc.org in igc:hr.eurmideast */
/* ---------- "ex-Yugo women's war crime initiati" ---------- */
From: Human Rights Coordinator <hrcoord>
Subject: ex-Yugo women's war crime initiati

/* Written  4:29 pm  Dec 18, 1992 by peacenews@gn.apc.org in
igc:wri.news */

Since mid-October -- when reports of the systematic rape and
frequent murder of Bosnian women in detention camps were
corroborated by survivors -- violence against women in the Balkan
wars has become a subject of international concern.

What is happening is neither new nor linked to the specific
brutality of one side in the war in former-Yugoslavia. Feminist
groups in former-Yugoslavia, aware of how rape and the abuse of
women are used by governments at war -- both for negative
propaganda and for terror -- have taken pains to point this out.
"The rape of Serbian women by Croats and Muslims, the rape of
Croat and Muslim women by Serbs, first and foremost is a crime
against women. Rape is a form of controlling women which men knew
before they started fighting each other ... " write the Belgrade
groups Women in Black and the SOS telephone hotline.

A campaign for rape to be treated as a war crime (see preceding
article) has been taken up jointly by the Belgrade groups,
Independent Women's House Zagreb, and women in the Antiwar
Campaign of Croatia. They additionally call for an independent
international court with responsibility for identifying and
punishing those responsible for such crimes.

Women in Black, c/o Stasa Zajovic, Dragoslava Popovica 9/10, 11
Beograd, Serbia

Independent Women's House, c/o ARK, Tkalciceva 38, 41000 Zagreb,
Croatia

 ****************************************************************
* Reprinted from _Peace News_ 2362 (January 1993).       Please  *
* credit if reprinting.      Peace News and War Resisters' Intl, *
* 55 Dawes St, London SE17 1EL, England    (tel +44 71 703 7189; *
* fax 708 2545, email peacenews@gn.apc.org or peacenews@gn.uucp) *
 ****************************************************************


Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman)
Subject: Re: please...no more LaRouche fascist crap!! ok?!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 13:36:48 GMT

prs9k@brain.med.virginia.edu (Phil Scarr) writes:

>In article <C08G2E.GuB@news.cso.uiuc.edu> bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman) writes:
>>aforum@moose.uvm.edu (autonome forum) writes:
>>
>>>What more need be said???
>>
>>>Fight fascism!!!!
>>>Beware of LaRouche fascist front-groups!!!
>>
>>Could you please substantiate your claim?

>Larouche's conspiratorial, dishonest and larcenous tactics have already
>landed him in jail.  I don't think much needs to be done to substantiate
>ANYTHING negative about LL that hasn't already been done.  The guy's a
>loony crook!

But what makes you say he is a fascist?


Brian Redman
(bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
"Ah yes, Armageddon. I remember it well."



Xref: sparky alt.activism:19832 alt.conspiracy:13415
From: L-Bueno@cup.portal.com (Louis Alberto Bueno)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Rape After Rape After Rape
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 08:14:36 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman) writes:
[stuff about belgian nuns and spanish-american war omitted]
>Your article is from the New York Times, hardly a trustworthy
>source in my opinion. Here is a quote from an excellent book
>I can recommend to you, "Plausible Denial" by Mark Lane (Thunder's
>Mouth Press, New York 1991): "Ritualistically, every few years,
>the *New York Times* ...devote pages of analysis to the recent 
>past of the CIA and conclude, with a banal predictability, that 
>while the agency had committed numerous crimes... the auspicious
>news is that the agency is now firmly in good hands." This
>book is chock full of similar quotes. They all have in common
>a tendency to lead one to believe that our "free press," including
>the *New York Times*, is not always to be trusted.
 
	Funny how you use ONE single source to negate another single
source :-)  Ever heard of comparative reading?  Try it sometime...
it does the brain good. :-)
 
Regards,
 
--Louis
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Rape After Rape After Rape
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:44:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.052714.25067@ncsu.edu> dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>>> Atrocity stories can be believed only when they describe
>>> both, or all sides, as committing the atrocities, or when
>>> the perpetrators and the reporters are from the same side
>>> (e.g. My Lai 4).
>> Obviously all those Jewish reports of Nazi atrocities in WWII should have 
>> been discounted then, since they didn't also describe Jews as commiting 
>> atrocities on Nazis, right?
>The 'Jews' constituted a 'side' during WWII?  Were they
>fighting against the Allies or the Axis powers?

The Axis powers.

Of course, you are probably trying to say that it matters that the "fighting"
was mostly one-sided: the Nazis decided to kill Jews, but anything done by
Jews to Nazis, in the rare circumstance that they had a chance to do anything,
is just self-defense.  But the same applies to the Bosnians.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Xref: sparky alt.activism:19744 talk.environment:5180
From: pnmideast@igc.apc.org
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:37 PST
Subject: PRESS RELEASE: WOMEN'S PEACE DELEGA
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296500462:000:1987
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!pnmideast    Dec 22 22:37:00 1992


From: <pnmideast>
Subject: PRESS RELEASE: WOMEN'S PEACE DELEGATION

==========================================================================

                                     PRESS RELEASE

                  WOMEN'S PEACE DELEGATION OF THE 
                   MIDDLE EAST CHILDREN'S ALLIANCE

DECEMBER 21, 1992		CONTACT: PENNY ROSENWASSER
					                   9722895085 PHONE
						              9722894023 FAX

	The Women's Peace Delegation to Israel and Palestine, 
sponsored by the Middle East Children's Alliance, consisting of 
women from the United States and Great Britain, today issues 
the following statement.
	"We are outraged by the illegal deportation of over 400 
Palestinians from their rightful homeland and demand the 
Israeli Government's immediate compliance with U.N. 
Resolution 799.  We further demand that the U.N. and our 
governments enforce the U.N. Resolution.
	"We have witnessed the inhumane conditions in refuge 
camps, the effects of military actions on unarmed children, the 
institutionalized denial of basic human rights, and the 
"administrative detention" of teenagers.  We have seen the 
sealed homes and the confiscated lands and have witnessed 
the systematic discrimination of the Palestinian people.
	"As women we are appalled by the recent action of the 
Israeli Government and we call upon women from around the 
world to protest this injustice."

	Signed:	Gloria Al-Ajarmoh, Brighton, England
			Joyce Bacon, Corona, California
			Ellen Barfield, Dallas, Texas
			Amy Beth, Brooklyn, New York
			Janet Coe, Mill Valley, California
			Reem Diab, Chicago, Illinois
			Lindsey Dobson, St. Paul, Minnesota
			Patricia Dobson, Chicago, Illinois
			Arla Ertz, San Francisco, California
			Diane Goldstein, San Francisco, California
			Augustine Grodson, Tucson, Arizona
			Esther Neuwirth, San Francisco, California
			Toni Roberts, New York, New York
			Penny Rosenwasser, Oakland, California
			Dorothy Sauber, Minneapolis, Minnesota




Xref: sparky alt.activism:19847 alt.conspiracy:13458
From: dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Rape After Rape After Rape
Date: 28 Dec 92 05:27:14 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Dec27.231514.5587@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> 
arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:

>> Atrocity stories can be believed only when they describe
>> both, or all sides, as committing the atrocities, or when
>> the perpetrators and the reporters are from the same side
>> (e.g. My Lai 4).

> Obviously all those Jewish reports of Nazi atrocities in WWII should have 
> been discounted then, since they didn't also describe Jews as commiting 
> atrocities on Nazis, right?

The 'Jews' constituted a 'side' during WWII?  Were they
fighting against the Allies or the Axis powers?
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (christopher raczka)
Subject: Re: What is United States of America like?
Reply-To: raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (christopher raczka)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 20:13:45 GMT

In article <1731@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu> libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson) writes:
> bud@mtek.com (Bud Hovell) writes:
> : 
> : [Contrary to evident popular opinion, "individual liberty" has never
> : been threatened on the occasion that *guilty* people end up in the
> : dock! This may not be the politically correct view, but it is a fact,
> : no less.]
> : 
> : If evidence obtained by search fails to evidence any such guilt, then
> : no harm has been done to individual liberty. If it *does* sufficiently
> : (to convince a jury) compel conviction, then neither has individual
> : liberty been harmed, since such liberty can only be exercised by all
> : when actual criminal behavior by the few is prosecuted.
>
   blah, blah, blah
 
> I sincerely hope that armed police officers never break down
> your door, throw you to the ground, handcuff you, terrify 
> your children and destroy your possesions, only to find later
> that they have made a mistake.  If they do, however, please
> be assured that they will apologize very nicely.

    No this is not something that should happen to anyone, but
    I have not ever known the F.B.I, LA or Detroit Police Departments
    to apologize

> If this happens to you, write us back and let us know if
> you think your individual liberty has been violated.
> 
> Bill    

    He doesn't understand Bill

Chris

-- 
"Any comments, opinions, and views expressed here (on Usenet) are MINE
and are in no way shared nor endorsed by my employer."
                        christopher raczka
From: zitsky+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mark Ryan Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.misc,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: What is United States of America like?
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:32:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

|> 
|> Oh, no.  It's MUCH worse than that.  Guilt or innocence simply doesn't matter.
|> You strongly imply that charges or even the desire to maybe charge the 
|> seizure victim is necessary.  It is not.  80%+ of all seizures are from people
|> who are never charged.  80%+ of all items seized are worth less than $20,000.
|> Not the playthings of wealthy drug lords, but the simple possesions of
|> normal folks.
|> 
|> In 15 major airports, ticket agents are paid informants of the DEA.  If you
|> buy a ticket for cash, you fit the 'drug courrier profile'.  The ticket
|> agent informs the DEA, who will come and relieve you of any cash you have
|> on you, which is split with the informant.  You are given a receipt.  With
|> this receipt and $900, you have the "right" to begin the process of proving
|> the cash seized is NOT drug sale proceeds and NOT 'tainted' by criminal
|> activity.
|> 

[much deleted]

Again, can anyone refer me to original sources?? Perhaps some books, articles, etc.  The "war on drugs" is an issue that I'm concerned about.  Enough to get involved writing senators, etc.  I have heard such stories before but have been too lazy to investigate.  Anyone want to help me out and point me in the right direction?

--Mark
From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.com (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: OPIN:Slick Willy's Business Team
Organization: Small Business Systems, Incorporated, Smithfield, RI 02917
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1993 20:16:26 GMT

prs9k@brain.med.virginia.edu (Phil Scarr) writes:

>I think the point that the article is making is that the cabinet LACKS
>the experience these kinds of people would bring.  Their idea being that
>at least one blue collar worker should be apointed to the cabinet to
>represent the feelings of the "workers".  I think this is REALLY
>problematic, but I can see their point.


I disagree wholeheartedly.

First off, I don't believe that anyone over at Bolshevick Central has
taken a substantive look at each cabinent member and his/her work background.
I certainly see no evidence of such an occurance.

Furthermore, I object to term "worker", as it is just another attempt to
play upon the class envy which permeates the US today. I, too, am a 
"worker" - the difference being that my decisions affect the financial
well-being of dozens of currently-gainfully-employed individuals who would
be otherwise scrounging for a meal at the local soup kitchen - rather than
simply deciding whether Joey or Frankie gets to drive the delivery truck
this afternoon. A business is composed of a team of people who work together
to deliver a product, not a class-struggle between the "haves" and "have-
nots".

While it may be the height of political-correctness for Bill Clinton to
have hit the streets, find a poor blue-collar or homeless person in
some major urban center whom he could then appoint to a cabinent
position, I believe it would be a sad day for America. We do not need a
Secretary Of The Poor, and certainly this country does not need
uneducated, untrained individuals controlling the purse strings of 
this country. We've had plenty of them already, have lots of them now
in Congress, and have gotten nowhere.

MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /  parents never had it, chances 
-- AT&TNet: +1 401 273 4669               /   are you won't either...
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              /
Xref: sparky alt.activism:19885 alt.politics.usa.misc:740 talk.politics.misc:65569