From: bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu (Bil Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Bad Musicals <was: "Worst Movie Of All Time, so bad it's bad!>
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:37:47 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Nov12.072819.21179@news.DKRZ-Hamburg.DE>, k206027@smog.DKRZ-Hamburg.DE (Bakayaroo Banzai) writes:
[Stuff deleted about my reactions to what I felt were homophobic
comments]

In an earlier post, I appologized for overreacting to the original
post, which was explained to be mostly paraphrased from a Medved piece
of crap.

>... If you're going to level those kinds of accusations why don't
> you also point a finger at the film itself which featured the Village
> People enjoying distinctly *heterosexual* fantasy scenes!
As I posted earlier, the Village People are not ALL gay.  Besides,
Valerie Perrine and Bruce Jenner's characters were also straight.
Daivid's "I Love You to Death" scene was a rocker's fantasy, not a
heterosexual's fantasy.

> One of the major reasons the film flopped in the US is due to the
> fact that it managed to completely alienate the VP's main fans,
> homosexuals...
This isn't really true.  I think it was the opposite.  The movie is
VERY camp.  There are so many gay references and Disco references that
I think that the average viewer (straight, or not exposed to disco
culture) was alienated.  Most of the jokes went over the audiences'
collective head.  After all, the general public's version of
disco was John Travolta and the Bee Gees.  My favorite line is the one
referencing shopping at "Gucci, Fiorucci", which was a reference to "He's the
Greatest Dancer" by Chic/Sister Sledge.  Many of the jokes were inside
gay jokes.  The images of the Village People themselves are inside gay
jokes, referring to the clone "types" of the '70's.  I don't see the
YMCA scene as an attempt at heterosexual fantasy.  The entire movie
was made up of scenes from popular gay icon movies, from Shampoo to
Esther Williams hundred-diving-girls-in-a-tub movies.  By the time the
movie was made, it was known that VP were basically singing about gay
subjects.  I think they tried to make light of it.  The "Milkshake"
commercial, having the guys endorse the national campaign for milk was
a reference to the fact that the US Navy wanted them to do recruiting
commercials, and wanted to adopt "In the Navy" as their official song.
The offer was dropped when the Navy caught on about the homosexual
references in the VP's music.  I have a copy of an original promo shot
by the group on a navy vessel singing "ItN".  The movie relied on
these references for both its humor and story.  Because almost no one
got the jokes, no one saw the fun in the movie.  Culturally, it was
beyond almost every audience.

> If you have to start flinging invective why don't you tar Nancy Walker
> and Allen Carr with the same brush or call them cowards (which they
> most certainly were) for not portraying the VP accurately.
Yes, it is true that VP were not portrayed accurately.  Unfortunately,
too much was happening too quickly during production, and I think that
they floundered to get the movie done.  I would have dropped the
project.  By the time the movie was released, the great Disco boycott
was on, and the gay backlash against the VP was in full swing.
Mothers didn't want their children running around the house singing
gay songs about being "macho".  They didn't want their kids dressing
as gays for Halloween.  The VP were very successful with their
tounge-in-cheek humor until someone opened their mouth.
But this only happened here in the United States.  Overseas, the
movie, as I stated, was popular, and Allen Carr was counting on that.
They continued to have a very successful carreer despite several
line-up changes, including 4 lead singers.  They had major hits with
song called "New York City" and "America" overseas.  Those songs were
never released in the states.  (Being in Germany, look for them at your
local record store.)
 
> Now why don't you put your "homophobic" gun back in your holster before
> you shoot someone with it...
As I said, I overreacted to the original posting, but am still
offended by the wording of it.  Granted the author has directed me to
his source.  None-the-less, even if CSTM was the worst movie of all time
(even I agree that it was close), the gay-bashing-type language was not
necessary and is offensive.  With CO-2, "Family Values", and the rest
of the garbage going on in the country, perhaps we should all be a
little more sensitive to the rights of others, and others' feelings.
To say the movie is shit is one thing.  To say that it is gay shit is
another.  But to say that it is "Faggot" shit is offensive.

Yes, I started this "mud-flinging", but I think enough has been said
to end it here.  My point, that there is more to the story than meets
the eye, has been sufficiently demonstrated.  You don't have to agree
with me, and you definitely don't have to think that CSTM was a great
movie.  Even the VP (except for maybe David ;) ) know that it is not.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if it is severely and
unfairly biased, and they choose to express it to others, they should
expect some sort of opposition in reply.  This obviously goes for
myself as well, as can bee seen in the replies to my anti-homophbia
rantings and ravings.

Bil Gonzalez
bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"We don't like what we don't understand
 In fact, that scares us
 And this monster is mysterious at least"
				-Villagers in BatB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies