Original_To:  JNET%"hellas@uga"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:46:00 EDT
Reply-To:     "YORGOS M. MALTAS" <GEORGE@UMBC.BITNET>
From:         "YORGOS M. MALTAS" <GEORGE@UMBC.BITNET>
Subject:      re: Ivdiavoi kai PFK

From:         "(Perikles Konstantinides)" <perkon@SCF.USC.EDU>

Wraia n erwtnsn tou Pavera kai 0a prospa0nsw aurio va tnv apavtnsw,
alla proexei o PFK...

> H apavtnsn mou 0a avafer0ei stnv ugeia, paideia, oikovomikn
> avaptu3n kai egklnmatikotnta twv American-Indians...

>>         Ola auta pou anafereis den apantoun sto erwthma "einai
>>    katapiesmenoi" alla sto erwthma: "antimetwpizoun problhmata
>>    ws fuletikh omada;". Allo to ena, allo to allo.

Erwtnsn: prepei va uparxei institutionalized katapiesn gia va dextoume
         oti uparxei katapiesn??? Dnladn toso nli0ious tous 0ewroume tous
         politikous kai tnv xwra pou avtiproswpeuouv ("xwra tns eleu0erias"klp)

> Prepei va snmeiw0ei oti n bibliografia gia tous American-Indians
> eivai elaxistn (kai auto deixvei polla)...
> 1. Ygeia: To 1831 to Avwtato Dikastnrio twv HPA diekurn3e oti (Cherokee
>           Nation vs. Georgia) oi diafores omades Ivdiavwv eprepe va
>           xaraktnri-
>           stouv sav "domestic dependent nations"  kai n sxesn tous me tnv
>           Amerikavikn kubervnsn "resembles that of a ward to his guardian."
>           To Kogkresso (pou eivai aln0eia oti exei dia0esei orismeva
>           snmavtika
>           posa), ta states kai oi apofaseis apo federal dikastnria APOFASIZAN
>           se poious American-Indians 0a divovtav ugeiovomikes paroxes, poios
>           0a tis plnrwve klp.
>           Opws eipame to Kogkresso die0ese kapoia lefta, alla ta dikastnria
>           0ewrousav auto to etnsio eisodnma sav voluntary (kai koita3te ta
>           dikngorika le3ika sas gia va deite pws metafrazetai n le3n) gia to
>           Kogkresso. Voluntary, kuries/oi, snmaivei oti ta lefta auta
>           mporousav
>           va kopouv opoiadnpote stigmn (pou snmaivei oti oi apofaseis tou
>           Kogkressou e3upnretousav politikes skopimotntes).

>>       OMWS: opws grafeis, eginan to 1831! Shmera poia einai ta nomo0etika
>>       plaisia;
>>       Yparxei 0esmikh katapiesh; OXI.

   Kai omws! To idio 0esmiko plaisio pou avefera pio pavw isxuei kai snmera!!!
   Dnladn to Kogkresso divei lefta OPOTE GOYSTAREI avaloga me tnv politikn
   skopimotnta (TA LEFTA AYTA DEN ELEGXONTAI APO TOYS INDIANOYS) . Episns,
   opws ndn avefera, ousiastika (bl. voluntary) oi opoiesdnpote (koivwvikes)
   paroxes stous Ivdiavous DEN PROERXONTAI EPEIDH 0EWROYNTAI DIKAIWMATA...

>>           Oute kai gia tous leukous apotelousan oute apoteloun dikaiwma.
>>           Katapiezontai mhpws kai oi leukoi;

    Xmmm n apavtnsn eivai mporei va eivai kai 0etikn kai arvntikn... To
    Medicare, px, mas leei oti kapoios/a 65 xrovwv kai avw apokta automata
    asfaleia (twra 0a me rwtnseis gia to Medicaid kai gia ta kouloubaxata me
    tis proswpikes asfaleies kai n apavtnsn 0a eivai 0etikn, ev merei sto erw-
    tnma sou. To gegovos eivai oti opoios dev exei tov para dev mporei va
    asfalisei tov eauto tou. Katapiesn? Egw pisteuw pws vai...) Oi statistikes
    mas leve oti peripou 25% twv Ivdiavwv briskovtai katw apo to poverty line
    se sugkrisn me to peripou 12% twv leukwv...

    Sto 0esmiko plaisio twra ligo pio sugkekrimeva: to 1964 eixame to Civil
    Rights Act, pragma pou logika 0a eprepe va apavtnsei to erwtnma gia to av
    eivai amerikavoi polites oi Ivdiavoi (giati blepeis ekei telika eivai to
    problnma...). H fasn eivai omws oti to zntnma auto 3avabgaivei stnv epifa-
    veia ka0e fora pou to state kai to federal government diafwvouv gia to poio
    agency 0a exei tnv upeu0uvotnta gia va plnrwsei to kostos tns paroxns
    ugeiovomikwv upnresiwv. Ti givetai loipov? Epeidn o Ivdiavos dev exei lefta
    va plnrwsei tov kuvngouv ta collection agencies. O vomos, gevika, ntav
    kalos alla dev eixe proble$ei tous kakomoirous tous Ivdiavous. Gia va to
    kavw pio liava: ti poio xeirotero uparxei otav se 3exva to kratos pou exeis
    to spiti sou? Katapiesn??? Oxi bebaia, kai exeis dikio, giati to KRATOS
    OYTE KAN EXEI PRONOHSEI GI'AYTOYS. TOYS EXEI 3EXASEI!
    Dev eivai katapiesn loipov otav dev avagvwrizesai apo to kratos, dev exeis
    proswpikotnta - eivai sav va mnv uparxeis. Katapiesn??? Oute kav va to
    suzntas, dike mou...
    To 1985 o grammateas tou US Department of Health kai Human Services mas
    plnrofornse oti: o mesos oros epibiwsns twv American-Indians eivai kata 6
    xrovia ligoteros autwv allwv minorities (dnl. gamnse ta), oti exouv to xa-
    mnlotero pososto proeleusns sta sxoleia, to income tous ntav $15,000. Ki
    omws dev givetai tipota! Katapiesn??? Ela twra...

>           SHMEIWSH: eivai gegovos oti exei beltiw0ei arketa n katastasn, alla
>           oi statistikes gia tous 0avatous veogvwv, gia ta infectious
>           diseases eivai akoma asuvn0ista megales.

>>             Auto to "asunh0ista" den to katalabainw. Mporeis na to
>>        exhghseis; "Asunh0ista" megales einai kai sto Washington DC.
>>        Mhpws katapiezontai kai oi mauroi ths Washington;

     Asuvn0ista snmaivei oti para tnv kapoia bon0eia ta pososta paramevouv se
     u$nla epipeda. Auto ti snmaivei? Oti n bon0eia dev proerxetai apo kala
     orgavwmeves pnges, alla oln n (n lign) douleia givetai sto podi...
     Gia tous maurous as mnv to suzntame giati eivai alln upo0esn katapiesme-
     vwv av0rwpwv...

>           Oi arxngoi tous mas leve oti auta ta "afusika"
>           faivomeva proerxovtai apo tnv epafn tous me "dutikes" suvn0eies.
>           Emeis twv koivwikwv epistnmwv sumfwvoume...

>>             Ki emeis sumfwnoume. Omws oi Indianoi apokleietai pleon na
>>      paroun thn gh tous pisw, kalws 'h kakws, kai prepei na aporripsoun
>>      to victimization and dependency culture pou tous katastrefei tis
>>      zwes, etsi wste na or0opodhsoun.

     Xa! Gia va doume... Oso gia tnv 0ewria tou welfare system pou ta.i.zei
     tous katapiesmevous kalutera va mnv milame. Ta lefta pou glutwvouv oi
     megales epixeirnseis stis HPA, mesw forwv, eivai 100 fores pio polla apo
     auta pou pairvouv sto welfare oi dustuxeis...

     Gia to ekpaideutiko sustnma kai ta loipa aurio gia va kavoume kai kammia
     douleia...

O lukos
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