From: dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King)
Subject: Re: FOCA: And I quote.....
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 01:46:09 GMT
Reply-To: dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King)


In article <nyikos.715647502@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:

>I'm afraid it goes deeper than that.  For instance, I think Will Steeves
>and I disagree almost as much as you and I on what restrictions should
>be put on abortion, but I think his heart is in the right place about 99%
>of the time too.  In fact, I wrote of him in soc.men that he is exactly 
>the kind of person I am glad is involved in the abortion debate.  I feel
>the same way about "Jammer Jim" Miller and Elizabeth Bartley.

>I wish I could feel the same way about you.
 
As far as I know, Adrienne has never once threatened to kill anyone 
for not showing her the proper respect.  Will has.  Perhaps you missed 
his now famous post were he issued his threat.  I just so happened to
still have it.  I will repost his entire post were he made his threat
so that you will see his threat has not been taken out of context.  
Then answer the question, has Adrienne ever said anything as 
appalling as Will Steeves?

******************************REPOST************************************
From: goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves)
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion,soc.men
Subject: Father Notification Reconsidered
Date: 3 Sep 92 02:31:00 GMT

kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall) writes...
JK>  I don't think the man has a right to know if the woman feels the best
JK>  action for her situation is to abort.


Well, as my good friend, Locutus of Borg :-), might say : "Feelings are
Irrelevant".  Indeed, if someone were to say "The man has the right to have
his child," you might say "Irrelevant!  It involves her body".  And in this
case, I, err Locutus :-) would that the woman does *not* have the right to
"decide" to deny the father the right to know the full truth of what he is
about to face.

However, I agree with Don Beaver that such notification *should* be after the
fact, although I believe this VERY grudgingly, because it is bad enough that
the man feels totally powerless in a situation where he is expected to be
responsible, but to tell him *afterwards* seems only like throwing salt in
the wounds.  Even so, I grant the possibility of abuse in cases where the
notification is before the fact.

BUT, I do not believe that this rare possibility totally abrogates his right
to *know*.  Thus, I would say that notification should be VERY soon afterwards,
although I think that the woman should at least have the decency, respect, and
trust to tell him beforehand!  (Note my words carefully : I am stating that I
believe that it is advisable to tell beforehand, but that I would *require*
it to be told afterwards).

And with God or Allah (whomever) as my witness, I will say that in my own
situation, if the woman had *not* been so respecting as to tell me before,
but in fact had not only told me right afterwards, but had waited a year (!)
or more, I probably would have snapped right there and killed her where she
stood.

You can call it "male violence against women," but how would *you* feel if
someone deliberately kept something from *you* for such a long time?  (like,
for instance, husband had an affair, etc?).  You *might* even be angry enough
to be driven to violence as well, especially if the delay had been long, so
before condemning me for making such a strong and unambiguous statement, please
consider the context within which I made it.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876
---

Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity