HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: furio@uiuc.edu (furio ercolessi)
Subject: Re: Computer<=>Sampler via SCSI (was Re: Sampling option for K2000)
Reply-To: furio@uiuc.edu (furio ercolessi)
Organization: MRL - UIUC
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:21:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov09.214636.14080@convex.com>, ssanders@convex.com (Steve Sanders) writes:
|>    [...]    A Kurzweil rep demoing the K2000
|>said he uses Syquest removeable disk drives as his shared SCSI platform.
|>He loads in a Mac-formatted disk when he's loading to or from the Mac
|>and changes to a DOS-formatted disk when the Kurz needs to load or store.
|>He didn't tell me any other details, but one might assume it works.

Scenario: big SCSI disk with two partitions, a Unix partition and a DOS 
partition.  The disk stays into a Unix box which uses the Unix partition
all the time, but never touches the DOS partition except when the user
really wants to do so.   The K2000 sits on the same SCSI bus and
uses the DOS partition whenever the user wants to load/store
samples and other data.

Could this dream configuration ever have a chance to work!?!?
(I would be the first to be amazed)
--
Furio Ercolessi
Materials Research Laboratory           |   Intl School for Advanced Studies
Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign   |   Trieste, Italy
furio@uiuc.edu                          |   furio@sissa.it
Newsgroups: comp.music
From: zmat09@hou.amoco.com (Maurice A. Trosclair)
Subject: SoundProcessor...
Reply-To: zmat09@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:24:02 GMT

I'm yjink9ing about buying The Soundprocessor by ThoughtProcessors, a 
musical notation program.  I have a 486 sx 25 mhz Gateway 2000 computer.
I'm also running Cakewalk for windows.  I would appreciate it if anyone could tell me
if this boat floats or not? I've had it with writing out scores and I want to buy something that is good but relatively inexpensive. I am currently looking at the Soundprocessor . . . 

Does it understand standard midi files?
Can it extract individual parts from a score?
Is it worth $200.00?



G. Thanx,

Meaux




Newsgroups: comp.music
From: tjt@blink.att.com (Tim Thompson)
Subject: Re: critic's question... Music Quest
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: chi
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:52:21 GMT

spearsd@rtsg.mot.com (Daniel S. Spears) writes:

>I'm looking for owners' opinions/critiques regarding
>the PC MIDI card from Music Quest.  Does anyone have
>any experience owning this product?

I just bought my second MIDI card from MusicQuest, I like them because
the IRQ and address is selectable.  The latest model of PC MIDI lets you set
the IRQ to values like 10,12, and 15!  (Those may not be the exact numbers.)
The card has a small extension that dips into the 16-bit slot, in order
to do that.  Very nice improvement.     ...Tim...
From: biloggen@cs.few.eur.nl (R.P. Loggen)
Newsgroups: comp.music
Subject: Re: ear training
Date: 6 Nov 92 10:43:17 GMT
Organization: Erasmus Universiteit Rotterdam

csat@giraffe.ru.ac.za (A. Terzoli) writes:

>I am looking for GOOD QUALITY software (PD, SW or commercial) for ear 
>training, to be used by students in a music department. It should run on 
>an Ibm PC with an MPU-401 compatible card, Sound Blaster and a MIDI keyboard 
>attached.

>Any idea? Thanks in advance.

I recently FTP'ed a demo of a program called 'BYEAR'.
It is real nice, works with MPU, trains in single notes
and chords.
The demo is fully functional, but only works for 10 minutes.
Check out some known midi-archives, I'm sure you'll find it.
If you can't, I could probably send it to ya.

Roeland Loggen
-- 
======================================================================
=    Loggen@cs.eur.nl      *  Roeland Loggen, student Informatics *  =  
=  Nothing is an Object,   *  Erasmus University, the Netherlands *  =
=    even Nothing...       ============================================
Xref: sparky comp.music:5079 rec.music.synth:17752
From: khaberl@BBN.COM (Karl Haberl)
Newsgroups: comp.music,rec.music.synth
Subject: Re: Computer<=>Sampler via SCSI (was Re: Sampling option for K2000)
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:07:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.lfivobINNcir
Reply-To: khaberl@BBN.COM (Karl Haberl)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <Bx7y99.85o@news.cso.uiuc.edu> furio@uiuc.edu (furio ercolessi) writes:
>can a sampler and a computer share a SCSI disk (as opposed to hooking
>directly a SCSI disk to a sampler) ? if yes , what are the conditions to
>do that ? 

I don't claim to be an expert on SCSI, but I believe that it is possible
for two separate devices (computer and sampler) to share the same SCSI
disk, provided that they both don't try to access the disk at the same
time, and provided that the format of the disk (or of the software that
is responsible for reading it) is compatible with each. Since the K2000
wants DOS format, this might be a problem if you want to hang a Mac on the
other end (?). Each SCSI device must be assigned a unique SCSI ID and the SCSI
bus must be properly terminated (there are connectors for this).

>how does SMDI fit onto the picture ?

SCSI defines the _hardware_ interface requirements. SMDI is the _protocol_
that defines how sample information is represented and exchanged. Two 
different sampling tools (e.g. K2000 and Alchemy) are enabled to exchange 
samples with each other SCSI because SMDI (I would assume) defines a 
canonical format for the sample data which each tool understands, even if 
they don't use that particular format internally. Thus, SCSI defines how
hardware devices talk, SMDI defines what samples look like (for example, 
where to find the loop points, etc.).

>perhaps in practice the computer would act as a file server for the sampler
>(SCSI requires a "master", right? this has to be the computer),
>but then the sampler would have to know something about
>the operating system of the computer (at least the structure
>of the file names).

No. The computer does not act as a file server. It is just another device
hanging off the SCSI bus. The K2000 is its own computer, and when it wants
sample data on the external disk, it becomes the master and gets the data
directly. When the computer wants data on that disk, IT becomes the master,
issuing SCSI commands to the disk. As I said above, you don't want both the
computer and the K2000 to try to be the master at the same time.

The K2000 doesn't need to know anything about the computer's OS at all, at
least to get data off an external disk. That is, unless Kurzweil decided to
give the K2000 the ability to really act like a Mac, in which case (if you
had System 7) you could set up File Sharing on your Mac to share certain
folders containing sample data, and then get them that way over AppleTalk or
EtherNet. I don't know what possibilities there may be for PCs.

If there's anybody out there who REALLY knows what they're talking about,
feel free to trample all over my ego and correct any mistakes or augment
this discussion.


Karl Haberl
Internet: khaberl@bbn.com
Newsgroups: comp.music
From: LASKI@hauk.hsr.no (Lars Kaare Skjoerestad)
Subject: Multiple digital recordings on a SONY DTC 55 DAT Recorder.
Organization: Rogaland University Centre
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:49:12 GMT

Hi all,

plase forgive if this not is the right newsgroup for this question, but i 
could not figure out on where to put my query.

My problem is as follow :

I'm using two Sonys DTC 55 Dat recorder to mix my music (i produce my own 
stuff), but the DAT recorders only lets me do one digital recording pr. 
tape. This soulution becomes quite expencive as i'll have to buy 'a lot' of 
tapes. Is there a way around this problem so that i'll be able to use a tape 
digitally more than once ? Perhaps a way to erase the tape ?

Any answers & hints will be most welcome !!!


(Ps: EMail is preferable)
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Lars Kaare Skjoerestad         | E-Mail : laski@hauk.hsr.no                |
| Rogaland University Center     | Tlf.   : +47-4-874220 ,Fax. : +47-4-874300|
|           < A pessimist is an optimist that knows all the facts >          |
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*


Newsgroups: comp.music
From: dtg001@dunix.drake.edu (Soli Deo Gloria)
Subject: Need info about MIDI keyboards
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:48:58 GMT

Another question for all the MIDI-gods out there...

I'm in the market for a CHEAP (emphasis here) MIDI keyboard
that has 5 octaves. 

Wait... I think I hear laughter...  :)

Anyway...  I don't even know what the names are in keyboards...
Who makes 'em?  Who's good for a decent price?  Anyone?

Much info appreciated...  Feel free to reply via eMail


Thanks again,
Damien Guay
From: agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Newsgroups: comp.music
Subject: PC and MIDI Keyboard to trade for Laptop
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:56:16 GMT
Reply-To: agr00@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (TONY ROSE)
Distribution: ba
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


I need a laptop computer.  Preferrably a 386 that is not huge.
I have the following items that I am willing to work out a trade of some
kind if anyone is interested.  This a a good MIDI setup, with a Peavey
amp, and ROLAND D-5 Keyboard, and a 286 IBM comp. system.  Please let me
know if anyone is interested in this sort of an offer.

ROLAND D-5 MULTI-TIMBRAL KEYBOARD
-Great MIDI Instrument!

PEAVEY KB 60 KEYBOARD AMP
-50W High/Low Gain
-2 Channel Input
-Equalization
-And More!
-Used rarely and in excellent condition

IBM PC Compatible with:   42M Hard Disk Drive
                          80286 12MHz upross
                          3.5 1.44M HD Disk Drive
                          5.25 1.2M HD Disk Drive
                          VGA Monitor
                          1MB RAM
                          101 Key Keyboard
                          2400 External Modem
                          Panasonic Dot Matrix Printer
                          MPU-401 Roland MIDI Card
                          Mouse Systems Mouse
                          Parallel & Serial Card
                          Software & More!
Newsgroups: comp.music
From: Trent_Worthington@act.educ.ualberta.ca (T Worthington)
Subject: FinaleMac2.6.3FontProblems
Followup-To: comp.music
Organization: Ualberta
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:23:12 GMT

Just purchased Finale2.6.3 (Educational) for the Mac and find myself in a
similar "unsupported" situation as the rest of you.  However, I did phone
CODA about printing related crashes during font substitution while printing
and although I was put on hold, their tech support did provide a bit of
information. Can anyone provide info about printing to a StyleWriter? 
Currently running on a PowerBook140 (TrueType but no ATM) and experiencing
problems printing bitmapped fonts.  Any suggestions?  I have discoved some
solutions, if anyone is interested email me. It appears that this method of
support is faster, cheaper and more practical than what CODA supplies so
far.

Thanks, Trent Worthington.
Newsgroups: comp.music
From: drakonar@cs.montana.edu (Charles L. Stewart III)
Subject: .rol to other conversion
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, MSU, Bozeman Mt 59717
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:20:49 GMT


Is there a way to have a SoundBlaster play a .rol file?  Barring that,
is there some conversion software out there to allow this?
Thanks.

-- 
      ---=>   Charles Stewart (aka Scott) : drakonar@cs.montana.edu   <=---
	          "Oh oh.  Looks like we need another Timmie!"
			   For Dinosaurs fans only.
		
Xref: sparky comp.music:5068 rec.music.synth:17689
From: furio@uiuc.edu (furio ercolessi)
Newsgroups: comp.music,rec.music.synth
Subject: Computer<=>Sampler via SCSI (was Re: Sampling option for K2000)
Date: 5 Nov 92 01:17:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bx7y99.85o
Reply-To: furio@uiuc.edu (furio ercolessi)
Organization: MRL - UIUC

In article <lfgmetINNlvq@news.bbn.com>, khaberl@BBN.COM (Karl Haberl) writes:
|>The K2000/K2000R come equipped with SCSI ports, and support is provided for
|>the SMDI (SCSI Musical Data Interchange) protocol. This protocol is supported
|>by various hardware and software packages to permit sample transfer over
|>SCSI. 

general questions (please bear with me):
can a sampler and a computer share a SCSI disk (as opposed to hooking
directly a SCSI disk to a sampler) ? if yes , what are the conditions to
do that ? how does SMDI fit onto the picture ?
perhaps in practice the computer would act as a file server for the sampler
(SCSI requires a "master", right? this has to be the computer),
but then the sampler would have to know something about
the operating system of the computer (at least the structure
of the file names).

any clarification is welcome

furio
--
Furio Ercolessi
Materials Research Laboratory           |   Intl School for Advanced Studies
Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign   |   Trieste, Italy
furio@uiuc.edu                          |   furio@sissa.it
From: wilson@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Newsgroups: comp.music
Subject: Looking for Listserver
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:18:43 GMT
Reply-To: wilson@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

I have a friend on compuserve who would like to access discusions on
comp music such as this group. Are there any Listservers for a comp.music
and Synth/keyboard discussions? Please reply E-Mail.
David Wilson
Newsgroups: comp.music
From: jjlee@adam.kaist.ac.kr (Lee Jeong Joon)
Subject: Prob. in Installing Sound Blaster Pro2 in WIn31
Organization: Center for Artificial Intelligence Research, KAIST.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 15:35:49 GMT

I have problems in instllalling Sound Blaster Pro 2 in Window 3.1.

I followed the Instalation Guide for SBP2.
And I added Device driver in Controll Pannel in Window 3.1

When I play \SBPRO\playmidi\minuet.mid MIDI File with JukeBox in Accessrory Group,
it creates strange Instruments Sounds differnt from sounds in JukeBox in window 3.0 with
Multimedia Extensions. I think sounds in Window 3.0 is correct.( I have window 3.0, Multimedia Extension, Ms-c 6.0 SDK 3.0 and MS-C 7.0)
I have modified Patch Map in Midi Maper in window3.1, but creates same sounds.

I have to use Window 3.0 because of CommmnView 3.0.

Explaning environment more detailedly, Diffrence with Window3.0 is using
sbp2fm.drv instead of sbpfm.drv in window3.0.

And I also want to know if MCI interface in window with Multimedia extensions is
exactly same with SDK 3.1 and MDK.

Please help me as soon as possible with Mail.

Thank you very much !
From: bryguy@apple.com (bRYgUY K. Carter)
Newsgroups: comp.music
Subject: Re: YAHAMA SY35
Date: 13 Nov 92 02:26:00 GMT
Followup-To: comp.music
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

Dave,

I own a Yamaha SY55, and I enjoy it very much.  I've played with the SY35
at the music store.  Split keyboards are great.  A definite must.


bRYgUY K. Carter
"Life is rough.  Then you Fly or Fry." -- Oh no you don't...these words are
MINE!
email: bRYgUY@apple.com       ALINK: bRYgUY
Work : "Uh, bRY..."           Home : "Where is he now?"
Elsewhere: "Hey, you!"
Newsgroups: comp.music,rec.music.synth
From: furio@uiuc.edu (furio ercolessi)
Subject: Re: Computer<=>Sampler via SCSI (was Re: Sampling option for K2000)
Reply-To: furio@uiuc.edu (furio ercolessi)
Organization: MRL - UIUC
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:19:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov09.214636.14080@convex.com>, ssanders@convex.com (Steve Sanders) writes:
|>    [...]    A Kurzweil rep demoing the K2000
|>said he uses Syquest removeable disk drives as his shared SCSI platform.
|>He loads in a Mac-formatted disk when he's loading to or from the Mac
|>and changes to a DOS-formatted disk when the Kurz needs to load or store.
|>He didn't tell me any other details, but one might assume it works.

Scenario: big SCSI disk with two partitions, a Unix partition and a DOS 
partition.  The disk stays into a Unix box which uses the Unix partition
all the time, but never touches the DOS partition except when the user
really wants to do so.   The K2000 sits on the same SCSI bus and
uses the DOS partition whenever the user wants to load/store
samples and other data.

Could this dream configuration ever have a chance to work!?!?
(I would be the first to be amazed)
--
Furio Ercolessi
Materials Research Laboratory           |   Intl School for Advanced Studies
Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign   |   Trieste, Italy
furio@uiuc.edu                          |   furio@sissa.it
From: ibhan@husc10.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan)
Newsgroups: comp.music
Subject: Re: PowerBooks & MIDI
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:59:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc10.ibhan.721677591

Geoff.Peters@p10.f861.n800.z3.fidonet.org (Geoff Peters) writes:

> > 1)  I'm considering buying a Power Book but I would like to know what's
> > the real story with Power Books and MIDI.  Is there total incompatability?

>Not total, but almost.

>Of all the PowerBooks, only the 100 is considered a suitable MIDI machine. All
>other models (including the newest, the 160 and the 185) suffer interference
>from the PowerBooks on-board interrupt-driven power management circuitry; you
>can transmit fairly cleanly, but receiving MIDI is another thing entirely.

2 things: 1)There is no such thing as a PowerBook 185.  There is a
PowerBook 180, but that's something else.  2) PowerBooks work fine for
both sending and recieving standard MIDI information for general
sequencing purposes.  It's sysex that fouls them up.
-- 
             --      Ishir Bhan (ibhan@husc.harvard.edu)      --
Newsgroups: comp.music
From: frankm@ampex.com (Frank Martyn)
Subject: SEQUENCER SALE*******UPDATE*******REDUCED PRICES!!!!!
Summary: Atari 520 & sequencers For Sale
Keywords: Atari, CUBASE
Organization: Ampex Corporation, Redwood City CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:59:18 GMT


SEQUENCER SALE  **  SEQUENCER SALE  **  SEQUENCER SALE  **  SEQUENCER SALE  **
SEQUENCER SALE  **  SEQUENCER SALE  **  SEQUENCER SALE  **  SEQUENCER SALE  **

____________________________________________________________________________

                 Atari 520 ST System / CUBASE Ver. 2.01

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everything I have for the Atari is included.  Some high points of the system
are as follows:

***** 1 Meg RAM
***** 3.5" Floppy Drive  
***** 30 Meg HD
***** Atari SM-124 Hi-Res B/W Monitor
***** Clock/Calendar modification
***** All the normal stuff like cables, mouse, books.......
***** CUBASE Ver. 2.01 High end multi-track sequencing software      
***** NEODESK  Desk top interface
***** Various pieces of software including other sequencing/MIDI  programs

********Everything works great on this system.  I have a notice from
	Steinberg offering an upgrade of CUBASE to the next revision.
        That is also included with the system. I will not piece this
	puppy out.  One price takes it all!  I would like to sell this
        system to someone in the Bay area to avoid the hassle of 
	packing and shipping it.  But if someone really wants it from
	out of the area, and is willing to pay S&H, I will pack it
	up for them and ship it out.  I don't have any idea how much
	it would cost to ship this baby.

PRICE: REDUCED REDUCED REDUCED
       $550.00 or B/O
____________________________________________________________________________

Reply to this account for further information.  Or call me at:

(415) 367-3087 (before 3PM weekdays)

Frank Martyn, Jr.
From: scollins@cs.tcd.ie (Steven Collins)
Newsgroups: comp.music
Subject: Midi Quest/Sound Quest
Date: 6 Nov 92 11:30:57 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science)


Has anybody out there used these packages, specifically the editor for
the Korg 01/w.  A friend of mine wishes to know whether the
editor/librarian software is good and reliable and if not, what packages
are.  So, Midi Quest, Sound Quest, do they take the biscuit ??

Steven Collins
scollins@cs.tcd.ie

** temporary loss of sig, do not adjust your set **
Newsgroups: comp.music
From: greg@carnivore.tamu.edu (Greg Economides)
Subject: Finale uses windows in standard mode?
Keywords: finale windows standard
Organization: Center for Biosystems Modelling, Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:24:16 GMT

I tried out a demo of Finale that Coda sent me on diskette a little while
back.  I remember that in order to run it, windows needed to be started
in standard mode (I believe).  Although I think that I have a tenuous
grasp on why this might be, I find it absurd that it should require that
windows be run that way.

Does the non-demo version have this same limitation?  If so, is there
any rumor or fact that the limitation will go away with a (hopefully,
not-too-distant) upgrade?

Peace,



--
Greg Economides,   Systems Administrator, Center for Biosystems Modelling
Texas A&M University
WERC 214-O
Internet: econ@tamu.edu, Phone: (409) 845-9574
From: A.Stone@bradford.ac.uk (A STONE)
Newsgroups: comp.music
Subject: fof synthesis
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:11:53 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 90341393@borage

Could anybody tell me please where i can get some information in machine 
readable form about fof synthesis?
Thanks
Alex Stone
Newsgroups: comp.music
From: potucek@winx06.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de (R.Potucek)
Subject: Need Description of HT3000
Organization: University of Wuerzburg, Germany
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:06:24 GMT


Hello folks!

I have a Casio HT 3000 keyboard and am looking for any information
concerning MIDI programming of this keyboard - especially sounds
and presets as these are frequently lost.

Thanks in advance, Rudolf

potucek@winx06.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de

Newsgroups: comp.music
From: bbs.mirage@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Jerry Lee)
Subject: Re: MOD 2 MIDI conversio programs?
Organization: The TSoft BBS and Public Access Unix, +1 415 969 8238
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:15:11 GMT

s1070627@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (Brett Paterson) writes:

> bbs.mirage@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Jerry Lee) writes:
> 
> >Does anyone know if there are any Amiga MOD to Standard Multi-track MIDI
> >conversion programs out there?  Is it possible to convert a MOD to a MIDI
> >file?  Where can I get a program to do that for the IBM PC or MAC?
> >Thanks!
> 
> Probably not, becuase midi is synthesized (computer generated instruments),
> while mods are made up of digitized sounds.
> 

Hmm.. That's what I was thinking.  Do ya think there's a way to just 
convert the note assignments and then just re-assign the programs in a 
sequencer?

--
Jerry Lee (bbs.mirage@tsoft.sf-bay.org)
From: kuehn@sound.esm.rochester.edu (Mikel Kuehn)
Newsgroups: comp.music
Subject: Re: Midi-file Parser and Performer
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:20:43 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: University of Rochester, Rochester NY


	Does anyone know of a PC-based editor for the KORG-M1 Workstation?

	Thanks in advance...



--------
Mikel Kuehn
kuehn@sound.esm.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: comp.music
From: Jay_Daunheimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jay Daunheimer)
Subject: PAS 16 or Gravis 16?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:55:40 GMT

So that's my problem, I don't have enough info to decide which one I should
buy! The Pro Audio Spectrum 16 seems to be more popular but I have heard good
things about the digital emulation of the FM voices on the Gravis Ultracard
with the 16bit daughter card.

Can anyone help me?

I want  to be able to use Cakewalk for Win to control my synth, playback
16bit samples and use the FM voices all at the same time. I would like to be
able to have some pretty decent control over the FM voices. I think PAS is 20
voice and the Gravis is 22 voice? I'm probably wrong.

Please someone tell me if I can do these things and with which card, if any.
Or point me to some info that would help.

I need to buy something soon!

Thanks,

PS- Please reply by e-mail and I will then post my results.
--
    (_)     |       *******>  Jay_Daunheimer@mindlink.bc.ca  <********
    /o\     | "Reality is 4 those who have nothing better to do"-Dr.L Heimer
  ( )-( )   |   All opinions expressed are mine. Never mind who I work for.
   MCVII    |    - W 60473 G 86582 - W 60426 G 39873 - W 60473 G 70577 -