HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: d40937@boole (Jean Yves Desbiens)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Sick and tired of cries of sexism (was Re: 9 1/2 Weeks)
Date: 30 Dec 92 14:16:39 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Per Goetterup (ballerup@diku.dk) wrote:
: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:
: 
: >bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) writes:
: >> No offense to gilbert, or even to tara lou, but I'm real tired
: >> of hearing this crap about sexist ads when in fact the 
: >> objectification of men is just as prevalent as the objectification 
: >> of women.
: >That isn't the point, not that it isn't a good point to make.
: >The point being made is that the advertisers expect their viewers to be 
: >men, and they speak to men as consumers, and ignore women as audience.
: 
: You might be forgetting some types of products clearly targetted at women as
: absolute primary consumer, like 'super/ultra' efficient washing powder and
: dishwashing fluids that spares the hands... (for the housewife) or shampoo/
: perfume commercials featuring unshaved/sweaty men - or the exact opposite -
: the yuppie (sharp dressed) man in suit and tie in the fancy sports car...
: 
: There's just as many commercials targetted at women as there are at men.

Most of those targeted commercials are so stereotypical that they  make
me want to puke, the bud adds a particularly offensive, a 25 year
differential exists between the men an women in them. The detergent
commercials are targeted towards women when in all of my friends houses the
*men* do the dishes. 

: The point is that in many areas, men and women are very different as consumers,
: and it's very difficult always to target a commercial at both at the same time,
: which is why they select one of the sexes, thus almost unavoidably making the
: commercial borderline sexist, or at least playing on traditional stereotypes.

Not borderline, right on sexist, they have a preconceived stereotypical
way of selling things and they continue on, they haven't noticed any change
since the 50's. If they can't find a way to target a particular group without
being sexist, then maybe their targeting is way off (like the detergent thing).

: 
: We _are_ different and we just have to live with the fact that the advertising
: companies knows that - and uses it.

They use the fact that it is easier to use old tricks (stereotypes) than 
invent creative non sexist ways ( that may or may not work)

: 
: But wouldn't life be boring if we were all alike...?

There are much more differences between countries in selling than between
sexes, still no such stereotypical attitudes exist.

--
SEIZE THE DAY, MAKE YOUR LIFE EXTRAORDINARY .  "Dead Poets Society"

Jean-Yves Desbiens                  | d40937@info.polymtl.ca
Etudiant en genie informatique      | 
Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal Can | To indeed be a god ...,
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: semenoff@fraser.sfu.ca (Robert Semenoff)
Subject: Re: The Crying Game
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 03:33:00 GMT

>In article <AKNOWLES.92Dec30160137@expert.expert.com> aknowles@expert.expert.com (Anne Knowles) writes:
>>Has anyone else seen this movie?!? What a great movie and no one is
>>posting about it. Highly recommended. It was wonderful.

Yes, I have to agree.
I'm still not quite sure about the state of Jodi ....

<spoilers to follow>




















Did _everyone_ except Fergus know about Dil ?

Jodi gave no indication that Dil was a man at the beginning obviously to
preserve the shock value (when the audience discovers this fact
later), and the pictures in Dil's room indicate (s)he and Jodi had
been together for a while. But is there a chance that Jodi was not
homo- or bi-sexual ?
Evidence
Dil screams "she got him with her tits and ass" (refering to the
IRA-slut's seduction of Jodi)

Dil did not want Fergus to know Dil was a man
(pushed his hand away from her crotch on the first date, and did
oral sex instead).

I just get the impression that Dil tries to get men (s)he wants by
charming men whether they are straight or not.

--
From: 9073hammesm@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Problems with DieHard 2
Date: 22 Dec 1992 15:35:12 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: 9073hammesm@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsa.csd.mu.edu

In article <1992Dec22.083229.12868@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, clueless@bradley.edu (Mark Kristie) writes:
>Jorge Diaz (ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU) wrote:
>: In article <1992Dec15.203113.4791@Virginia.EDU> rrb2x@Virginia.EDU (Richard Ramiaz Banks) writes:
>
>: >	Concerning your Die Hard II complaints: you can eject
>: >from any aircraft--except a helicopter--while it is still on
>: >the ground; they did try to reroute the airplanes during the
>: >movie.  The ones with the most fuel were sent elsewhere,
>: >whereas those with little fuel flew in a circular pattern.
>
>: Sorry, dude, if you have enough fuel to circle for 2 hours, you can fly
>: to another airbase.
>
>You don't if you're told by the airport to circle and wait cuz they're 
>going to have their systems back up shortly.... By the time you realize
>it's too late, you don't have enough fuel left....


I think the point was that in real life the airport would NEVER have let
the planes just circle for two hours in the hopes that they would have
things fixed by then.  They would have been diverted immediately.
But, of course, then there wouldn't have been a movie.
From: wiggs@deets.chem.washington.edu (James Wiggs)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: totally ridiculous trivia question
Date: 31 Dec 1992 07:20:21 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: deets.chem.washington.edu


   In what film did Bette Davis have the line: "What a dump!"

   A friend asked me this the other night, and I can visualize the scene, but I  
can't remember what film it was!  This is the sort of thing that will keep me  
awake at night...

--
James Wiggs
jk_wiggs@pnlg.pnl.gov _or_ wiggs@u.washington.edu
#include <std.disclaimer>
"They're six year olds; how much trouble can they be?"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: lorreen@meiko.com (Lorreen Pelletier)
Subject: Re: The Cook...Lover/women's response
Organization: Meiko Scientific Corp.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:37:46 GMT

estrayer@netcom.com (Eric Strayer) writes:
: 
: Regarding the movie The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & Her Lover, 
: I have some comments, but more importantly, some questions.
: 
[lots of stuff about wife's reaction and her claim

: that only insensitive (or very young and stupid) men would like anything
: in that movie.

I am a woman, and I think TCTTHWAHL is one of the very best films I have
seen.  Others have mentioned some of the features which make this an
excellent film, and I found the emotional impact of this movie very
impressive. Yes, the movie features repugnant characters, doing repugnant
things (and these scenes are quite disturbing), but it does not condone
this behavior.  In fact, if this movie had not disturbed its audience, it
would have failed, in my opinion, as an interesting and relevant movie. 
Some movies are designed to be disturbing. 

It irritates me that some people (apparently like your wife) are so
willing to blind themselves to, or hide themselves from ugliness.  As
humans we must at least face certain ugly truths--and the decadence and
violence portrayed in TCTTHWAHL are two of these truths.  Unlike the
violence expressed in many popular action/adventure movies, the violence
in TCTTHWAHL is meaningful, artistically expressed, and *disturbing*. 

Please note that "disturbing" does not mean "offensive".  The
movie is disturbing in that it forces us to face man's (read generically as
"human's", please, as I will continue to use "man" to mean mankind (and,
yes, ladies, that does (like it or not) include women) dark nature.

This, in brief, is my gut response to this movie.  I would like to add
that it is always annoying to find that some woman has elected to speak
for all women in voicing her own personal opinions.  I am a human being,
who happens to be a woman, and I frequently find that I have much in
common with men, (insensitve, young, and stupid included).  Your wife
would be well advised to recognize that in spite of great individual
diversity, we are all human.  Perhaps when she is able to approach
material with a broad human eye, and her own personal perspective, she
will no longer feel it necessary to make the kind of sweeping general
statements such as that which prompted your post. 

--Lorreen


Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: davidr@cs.uow.edu.au (David Ian Raymond)
Subject: Citizen Kane question
Summary: Citizen Kane
Keywords: Citizen Kane 
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 00:31:18 GMT

Hi,
  I watched Citizen Kane yesterday. I was a bit let down by the ending but
I suspect that I didn't catch the significance of it all.
  What was the thing that they threw in the fire at the end with Rosebud
written on it and what was its significance? I was led to believe that the
whole mystery would be revealed in the last few moments, so I think this must
have been a key to the mystery. Could someone please explain it all to me?

		Thanks, David.

davidr@cs.uow.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri)
Subject: Re: The Player (was Re: Academy Awards)
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 00:41:18 GMT

>|It seems to be on everyone's list, which I find puzzling.

I *knew* that there had to be someone else out there who didn't fawn over it.

>|cute movie, clever and well-done, but certainly not a great movie.  Even
>|restricting the field to comedies, Husbands and Wives was far better.

I wouldn't even classify The Player as a comedy.  I found it to be a
pretentious heap of dingo's kidneys.

>Perhaps its special appeal to movie buffs explains the high rating?

Does it really apply to "movie buffs", or the the "artsy" crowd?  When I saw it,
the audience was strikingly the latter.  I think I was the only one in the
theater without a long black coat, crewcut, and little round glasses.

>Easy.  It practically dripped of droll cynicism and subtle irony.

That it did, but for me the pretentiousness spoiled it.  Stupidity wrt animals
didn't help either -- the bastard killing the snake and later claiming that
he "almost died".

>Personally I loved it.  I don't think it has a chance come Oscar time,
>but then, so what?

I gave up on the Oscars when they didn't give "The Rainbow Connected" best
original song.
-- 

======================================================================8--<
From: jm0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH ALOYSIUS MCVEIGH)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Most Underrated Actor/Actress
Date: 23 Dec 92 01:37:20 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University



[Regarding my "Dishonorable mention:"]

>>Special mention for the complete offensiveness of Emilio Estevez and Madonna.

csroc@cvbnet.prime.com (cvbnet) writes:
>I think their complete
>offensiveness says something for ability.
>Most people cannot project(of course their not in
>league with Jack Nicholsen yet) this extreme
>feeling that you want to kick and beat them.
>except maybe Madonna's ex Sean Penn.

I guess I misread their intentions. I should be forced to watch consecutive
showings of "Wisdom" and "Who's That Girl?" for the next day or so.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Aloysius McVeigh | "No one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd
   jm0i@.Lehigh.edu     |  only had good intentions. He has money as well."
       "N.I.N.A."       |                               - Margaret Thatcher
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ziauddin@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (Tasneem Ziauddin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: The Cook...Lover/women's response
Date: 28 Dec 92 16:08:32 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

I saw this movie a few years ago and, like your wife, stopped watching it
before the end.  The male friend who watched it with me continued viewing it
but mostly to see what happened.  Unlike your wife, however, I don't think I
was offended.  The violence, though explicit, was never really condoned
since it was perpetrated by the thief, who had already been established as a
horrendously grotesque character.  The violence was included to emphasize
his corruption/decadence, not to glorify violence against children or
torture.  I was, therefore, not offended.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Sick and tired of cries of sexism (was Re: 9 1/2 Weeks)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 01:02:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.141639.5308@vlsi.polymtl.ca> d40937@boole (Jean Yves Desbiens) writes:
>Per Goetterup (ballerup@diku.dk) wrote:
>: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:
>: 
>: >bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) writes:
>: >> No offense to gilbert, or even to tara lou, but I'm real tired
>: >> of hearing this crap about sexist ads when in fact the 
>: >> objectification of men is just as prevalent as the objectification 
>: >> of women.
>: >That isn't the point, not that it isn't a good point to make.
>: >The point being made is that the advertisers expect their viewers to be 
>: >men, and they speak to men as consumers, and ignore women as audience.
>: 
>: You might be forgetting some types of products clearly targetted at women as
>: absolute primary consumer, like 'super/ultra' efficient washing powder and
>: dishwashing fluids that spares the hands... (for the housewife) or shampoo/
>: perfume commercials featuring unshaved/sweaty men - or the exact opposite -
>: the yuppie (sharp dressed) man in suit and tie in the fancy sports car...
>: 
>: There's just as many commercials targetted at women as there are at men.
>
>Most of those targeted commercials are so stereotypical that they  make
>me want to puke, the bud adds a particularly offensive, a 25 year
>differential exists between the men an women in them. The detergent
>commercials are targeted towards women when in all of my friends houses the
>*men* do the dishes. 
>
>: The point is that in many areas, men and women are very different as consumers,
>: and it's very difficult always to target a commercial at both at the same time,
>: which is why they select one of the sexes, thus almost unavoidably making the
>: commercial borderline sexist, or at least playing on traditional stereotypes.
>
>Not borderline, right on sexist, they have a preconceived stereotypical
>way of selling things and they continue on, they haven't noticed any change
>since the 50's. If they can't find a way to target a particular group without
>being sexist, then maybe their targeting is way off (like the detergent thing).

But they work.  People do think like that.  And if someone wants to give me
the argument that they "send out the wrong signals," then I feel compelled
to respond, "Isn't is sad when we have to remind all the viewers to think
for themselve?"

GMS
Xref: sparky rec.arts.movies:35957 alt.cult-movies:11438
From: muzzle@cs.uq.oz.au (Murray Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies,alt.cult-movies
Subject: Re: BLADE RUNNER FAQ Version 0.9
Date: 22 Dec 92 03:46:44 GMT
Reply-To: muzzle@cs.uq.oz.au
Followup-To: rec.arts.movies

In <1gvl43INNo01@CS.UTK.EDU> owens@cs.utk.edu (Stephen Owens) writes:


Hi there

>  The question I have searched unsuccessfully for the answer to
>  concerns the origin of the poem Roy quotes when he and Leon
>  confront the genetic eye designer.  The quote, I believe,
>  begins:  "Fiery the angels fell . . ."   On a hunch, I checked
>  Milton's Paradise Lost, but to no avail.
>     Anyone have a clue?

Blake's "America".

Watch for the next version of the FAQ.

>  Stephen Owens
--
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
  Murray Chapman                           muzzle@cs.uq.oz.au
  University of Queensland                 How many lightbulb jokes does it
  Brisbane, Australia                      take to change the subject?
From: grendel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (The Crow of Desperation)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Watchmen
Date: 23 Dec 1992 09:13:42 GMT
Organization: The Church of Pat
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Dec22.225305.16207@inel.gov> mgq@inel.gov (Michael G McKellar) writes:
*In article <1992Dec22.215639.2289@samba.oit.unc.edu> David.Rapp@launchpad.unc.edu (David Rapp) writes:
*>     I always saw Dan Akroyd making a great Night Owl.
*>
*You picked the perfect Night Owl.  After seeing My Girl, I  could
*easily see Dan Akroyd as the Night Owl.  I'm assuming you mean the
*second Night Owl and not Hollis Mason.

Beau Bridges as Nite Owl II
John Malkovich as Rorshach
William or John Hurt (I can never keep those two straight) as John Osterman
before he becomes Dr. Manhatten.  Computer animation afterwards.

This is an old subject on rec.arts.comics.  There's a Watchmen archive
somewhere that has all the articles and casting suggestions on the movie.


Mark "Gilbert Gotfried as the alien" Lippert
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Subject: Re: Q on A Few Good Men: Poison???
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 31 Dec 92 17:24:19 GMT

In article <C03pHI.A9o@newsflash.concordia.ca> williaml@cs.concordia.ca (LEE william) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.083855.372@news.uwyo.edu> rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky) writes:
>>Something that really bothered me about this film was the "poison"
>>plot device.  Were these two marines toxicologists or something?

>Another point I found weak was the justification for Demi Moore in trusting
>these two marines. 

This movie really was weak - a major disappointment.  
Virtually nothing about it made sense. The top performance
(by a long shot) was by the Texas A&M military drill team.
One great (though maybe unintentional) metaphor for the
entire movie - the magazine stand owner and Cruise 
talking in cliches.  

John D.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: feathers@serss0 (Michael Feathers)
Subject: Re: Sick and tired of cries of sexism (was Re: 9 1/2 Weeks)
Organization: Florida International University, Miami
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 13:55:51 GMT

In article <92364.185826U23700@uicvm.uic.edu> <U23700@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>although research has been done that shows that men have a greater
>physiological response to visual stimuli, i don't think that you
>can rule out conditioning as a possible reason for this. as a child,
>i was inculcated with the 'boys are good at math, girls are good at
>verbal things' bias. yet recent research in child development shows
>that boys and girls go through the same developmental phases, but at
>*different* times -- and so, depending on the curriculum, math may
>be easier understood by one group or another depending on the devel-
>opmental stage the groups are in.

Yeah, I think that the culture reinforces biology also.  But, if I remember
correctly, studies have shown a link between testosterone and the development
of visual areas of the brain.  This is not an exclusively male phenomena 
either.  Many women have higher than average testosterone levels and they
tend to take risks more and be more sexual than average without being 
necessarily any less feminine.

>one further note: as pornography moved out of porn theaters and into
>the home video market, a greater percentage of the audience has become
>women. (i can't remember where i read this off the top of my head, but
>i will try to find out if someone demands a reference). so it would
>appear that a greater number of women are attracted to visual sexual
>stimuli than was previously thought. 

I've heard that also.  One thing that I wonder about, though, is whether
they are necessarily getting the pornography for themselves or because
their husband/lover is too embarrassed to get it.  However, I am sure that
we are discovering more about women who are strongly visually stimulated
now because it has become more acceptable and less supressed.

>this doesn't surprise me; i'm
>female and a total visual stimuli addict, my chief vice being movies
>on the little and big screens, in almost every genre i can think of
>including experimental. (the experimental film coalition in chicago
>provides a challenging alternative to narrative hollywood movies).

Great.  I think predominately in a visual way.  In fact, I can't hear a
sound without having some sort of mental image floating through my head.
Weird, eh?  

Consequently, I'm a real Greenaway, Lynch, Kubrick addict.
From: daves@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Dave Stow)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: The Player (was Re: Academy Awards)
Date: 1 Jan 93 17:34:30 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing at Lancaster University, UK.

>Does it really apply to "movie buffs", or the the "artsy" crowd?  When I saw 
>it, the audience was strikingly the latter.  I think I was the only one in the
>theater without a long black coat, crewcut, and little round glasses.

Well, with long hair, a leather jacket and no glasses I don't fall into
the artsy crowd at all - but I loved "The Player".

>That it did, but for me the pretentiousness spoiled it.  Stupidity wrt animals
>didn't help either -- the bastard killing the snake and later claiming that
>he "almost died".

Hmm, I think you missed something about that character... And maybe what
the film was about. Still - each to their own.

Dave

--- daves@comp.lancs.ac.uk ----------------------------------------------------
Dave Stow, Comp. Dept. SECAMS, Lancaster University, Lancs, LA1 4YL, UK
     Tel: +44 (524) 65201 ext. 3142           Fax: +44 524 381707
--------------------------------------------- B5(6.5) f- t- g+ k+ s+ e r p ----
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: susskind@frisbee.cis.ohio-state.edu (sara susskind)
Subject: Re: Liam Neeson???
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:07:09 GMT

In article <i0gFwB3w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> dascoser@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (david serchay) writes:
>dkrause@miami.acs.uci.edu (Doug Krause) writes:
>
>> In article <1992Dec22.141915.27610@scott.skidmore.edu> dtschett@saims.skidmor
>> #What else has this actor done previous to "Leap of Faith"?
>> 
>> Darkman
>> The Good Mother
>> 
>> Douglas Krause 
>
>He was in Excalibur
>
>Dascoser

Also:
Suspect (a mystery/thriller w Cher & Dennis Quaid)
Husbands and Wives (Woody Allen's recent one)