From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Reply to S. Borodin (was: Antisemitism and Verbitsky)
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:53:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: apollo.BxB096.497
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1dcajdINNpi7@rodan.UU.NET> avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:
>In article <Bx9L81.DIL@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:
>>    By 1917, the country had been mismanaged so badly that the
>>    population revolted and, as a result, the ruling elite was 
>>    thrown out of power.  After the Civil War, and until WWII
>>    began, the country was ruled by ethnic minorities - the Jews,
>>    Georgians, Latvians, etc - and it was during that period of
>>    time that the state became considerably less chauvinistic, 
>>    and anti-semitism was all but gone.
>
>Gone? Dozens of millions of Russians gone by efforts of that less
>chauvinistic state. It is not entrance exams. It was genocide. 

    While tens of millions of Soviets were indeed exterminated
    by the new regime, I have yet to see any evidence that Russians,
    or any other ethnic group for that matter, were disproportionately 
    represented amongst the victims.  One certainly would not come
    up with an idea like this by reading "Archipelag GULAG".
>
>>    The Russians returned to power after WWII, and brought with 
>>    them the traditional great-russian chauvinism, extreme racial
>>    and ethnic intolerance and, yes, anti-semitism.
>
>I'm still amazed by patience by people who even do not hate Jews,
>Georgians and Latvians after what the first (and i hope the last)
>non-Russian government did. Fortunately ethnical hatred and
>egotism aren't even remotely typical for Russian.

    Really?  Where is then this racial and ethnic intolerance coming
    from?  The fish rots from the head, and the average Russian
    is quite xenophobic and hates every other ethnic group.
    If that were not enough, the Russian themselves are not a
    monolithic people.  For example, Cossacks believe that the rest
    of the Russians are inherently inferior.
>    
>>    By 1991, the country had been mismanaged so badly that the
>>    population revolted...
>
>And fortunately there is now a chance that all bigots finally leave
>Russia forever. Don't lull yourselves with a "how those stupid
>Russians will live witihout us" -- Germany somehow managed, didn't it?

    If all bigots left Russia, the country would be de-populated.
    Besides, Russia is no Germany.  A recent poll conducted in Germany
    showed ~55% of the public having a positive attitude toward
    the Jews, and ~25% - negative.  I'd be most surpised if
    the Russians would demonstrate that much of a tolerance toward
    the Jews.   I am not really concerned what the Russians will do 
    without the Russian Jews, I know they'll find somebody else to 
    blame for their problems.  Your point about how Germany managed 
    its way to prosperity is well taken, though. 
>
>Now, a quiz about opressed under-educated Jews:
>
>- how come that i have yet to see a Jew sweeping in Metro
>  or working in a shop for bread?

    Earlier you made a statement that you encountered many
    a Jew while while visiting one of the Soviet Ministry's.
    It is not atypical for an anti-semite entering a room
    full of people to count the number of the Jews there
    first.  I suspect they do it subconsciously.
>
>- how come that 20% of Soviet administrative staff were Jews?
>  (source - Izvestiya '89 (this figure was also reported by
>  Ogonyok and later confirmed by Gorbachyov in interview)).

    Gee, that wasn't the case ten years ago.  No wonder
    the country is falling apart.
>
>- how come that a country which keeps illegally occupied territories
>  and whose citizenship laws discriminate people by ethnicity (well,
>  you can get a citizenship by undergoing a barbaric surgery) has
>  nuclear arms and enjoy support of American taxpayers?
>
>When i hear people like Alex Goykman i feel like joining Pamyat'.

    Consider yourself admitted (as always:).  

    I rest my case.

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Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
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