From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Femme/Butch in Bisexuality
Date: 13 Oct 1992 21:27:38 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Femme Butch

In article <1992Oct12.180732.1318@rational.com> iw@Rational.COM (The_Virgin_Ho) writes:

->However recently I have begun to notice that I am actually attracted 
->to a very distinctive identity - butch. Butch women and butch men. 
->While I often think femme women and men are cute, even sexy 
->looking, I don't actually lust after them.

Weird ... you define the words butch and femme the same way I'd define the
words bottom and top ... I suppose it depends on your background ... you're
coming from a lesbian/bi-woman background (I think) ; I have no experience
in that area, but am heavily into BDSM (well, intellectually at least) ...
are you into BDSM (not a pick-up ... just trying to see what makes the
difference between you and me that would make us use two different sets of
labels to define the same thing).

->femmes do. They like to see themselves as being the ones in con
->trol. Erotically, they get a lot of pleasure through giving pleasure, 
->through seeing their effect on their partners. 

It was this line that made me go '*blink*' '*grin*'  "THAT'S ME!!!" ...

Not the control aspect so much as the giving pleasure thing ... not that
I've done much of it, but my basic idea about giving pleasure is, "I WANT TO
DO IT."  I mean, _BADLY_ ... There are currently six men who, when I think
of giving them pleasure, of making them orgasm (it's OK to use the o-word
here, right? :) ), just make me go melty, and mooshy, and bang my head
against the wall in frustration (well, I live with one of them, so that's
good ... and of the five left, one of them is my type, which means it
probably wouldn't work, two are straight, and the other two read soc.bi so
I'm not going to say anything more :) ) ...

As for women? Well, you see, I have these fantasies ... *grin* *blush*

It's interesting ... I was having a conversation about _EXACTLY_ this same
topic this weekend with the friend who I mentioned above who is very butch
in this sense ... 

The following is a tad sexually explicit ... so you probably want to close
your eyes or something ...



We basically both expressed the same feelings about having a woman going
down on us ... something along the lines of '*squick*' '*whimper*' "err, I'd
rather not, thank-you-very-much."  ...

We both also expressed the same feelings about the idea of going down on a
woman (well, I extended it to 'going down on a person,' seeing as how
there's the six men above) ... which was "*swoon*" etc ... 

Well, maybe it wasn't _that_ explicit.  But it sure was embarassing :) 
(BTW, this was the source of the comment I made a few days ago that went
something like "It's better to give than to receive.")

->becomes much more obvious in queer circles, where people are less 
->confined by traditional role models and expectations.

Queer? Me? Why, _thank you_ ! :)

-> So why I have told you all this? I would like to know if anybody out 
-> there has thought about this in regard to themselves and their own 
-> attractions. Do you maybe find butch women attractive and femme 
-> men attractive? Or vice versa. Or do you find your own kind attrac
-> tive, or the opposite. Does any of it even make any sense to you?

Yup!!! Yup!! Definitely.

The fact that for some reason I end up usually with femme partners (well,
not sex partners ... but both my ex FSO and my current (and first) MSO are
butch according to your definition, bottoms according to mine).

But I'm _definitely_ attracted to tops/femmes.

-roy, who's still rather overwhelmed by the fact someone else thinks the
 same way as he does :)

Thanks, Iseult!!

-- 
Roy S. Rapoport          rsr@soda.berkeley.edu            bdsm@ocf.berkeley.edu
#include <stdio.h>
float kinsey(){int c=random()%601;return (c/100.0);}
main(){srandom(time(0));printf("And now I'm %.2f\n",kinsey());}
Newsgroups: soc.bi