From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: New queer terminology (was Re: The media, again)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 06:01:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug16.225820.13089@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) 
writes:

I generally disagree with you, but like Arne, Arnold, Jess, and Steve, I'm
over the hill. 

>To me, "Gay" means an apolitical white man in his middle thirties with
>a clone moustache. He wears nice jeans (with the crotch worn by
>sandpaper), goes to the bars to hang out with his friends and has
>exquisite taste in furniture.

I'm in my middle thirties.  As a good southern boy, I have a moustache, but
otherwise, I don't think I fit your criteria.  I certainly don't have
exquisite taste in furniture. 

I don't think your description, even as an extreme example, fits most gay
men.  The part which is most untrue is "apolitical".  You may not know it,
but the freedoms you enjoy are partly the result of what we did when we
were your age (and older - turning 30, or 40, or 50, or 70 doesn't mean you
can't be an activist anymore), just as our freedoms were partly the work
of drag queens of the decades before.
 
>To me, "Queer" means a young androgynous person of any race in his or
>her early 20s.

Androgynous?  I don't think so.  Maybe I just find it easier to distinguish
gender than you do. 

>He wears slightly beaten jeans, bright white t-shirts
>that say "I'm a faggot", and a black leather jacket with black on
>orange stickers in Antique Olive Bold. She wears black denim pants, a
>dark loose shirt, and a black leather jacket with black on orange
>stickers in Antique Olive Bold. He or she goes to protests to hang out
>with his or her friends, doesn't own furniture but has great taste in
>music.

True; I see them at the symphony.

>That's the extreme personal stereotypes. On to the real reasons why
>"queer" is different from "gay".
>
>gay is apolitical
>queer is radical

This is probably the least justified of your remarks.  There are different
kinds of political actions; your failure to recognize the value of
diversity is, um, uncool. 

>gay is exclusive to homosexual men
>queer is inclusive of women and gender/sex minorities

If true, that would be a recent development.  We've discussed that here
before.   The cynical side of me says that pretty soon "queer" will come to
mean "homosexual white men". 

>gay is from a different era, the time of civil rights, Vietnam, women's
>  lib, gay lib.

Yeah, well, it's true that civil rights are and such are no longer
fashionable in this age of Reagan and Bush. 

>queer is new, challenging. The time of AIDS, Ronald Reagan, Jesse Helms

"Gay" is challenging too.  Jesse Helmes and people like him aren't new. 

>gay is a lifestyle

And "queer" isn't?

>queer is a philosophy - we have our own literature, our own literary
>  analysis, our own political understanding.

I'll grant you that last part.  And you should have all those things - we
learn as we go along.  That doesn't mean that those of us who are
approaching the grave don't have valuable insights too. 

>I agree that "queer" is a fashion, but it's a fashion that reflects a
>new time.

"As the times are new, so we must think anew." 

>Is "queer" postmodern?

Just like some recent buildings. 

-- 

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Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss