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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 12:49:00 EDT
From:         Richard.Campbell@MVS.UDEL.EDU
Subject:      MacNutt's Adrress (was Healing)
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.BITNET@udelvm.udel.edu

 Hi all,  hope blessings are coming your way in Christ  (John 1),

 For those interested, here is the address for CHM, the MacNutt's ministry:

 Christian Healing Ministries, Inc.
 P.O. Box 9520, 438 West 67th St.
 Jacksonville, FL 32208-9520   USA
 904-765-3332

 The book "Healing" is available from their bookstore for $5.95 (order #B067)
 Also available is "Praying for Your Unborn Child" by Francis and Judith,
(#B107 paperback, #B048 hardback, $7.95 and $9.95) Other books by Francis:
"The Power to Heal" (B045, $4.95), and "The Prayer that Heals" (B047, $3.95).

    Make checks payable to Christian Healing Ministries.  Shipping add 10%,
max. of $10.00.  (no info. on foreign orders given.)  (FL residents add 6%
tax; Jacksonville 6.5%).  Send orders to PO Box number.

                             Blessings,
                                       Rich C.
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 11:11:00 EST
From:         WKJ <JAMES@XAVIER.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: One of my very favorite hymns

AWESOME !

Things that make you go  HYMMMMMM.

 ( things that make you go to HIM )

wkj
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:21:29 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Mary Magdalene (11 July)
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET, BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET

MARY MAGDALENE (11 JULY)

Mary Magdalene is mentioned in the Gospels as being among the women
of Galilee who followed Jesus and His disciples, and who was present
at His Crucifixion and Burial, and who went to the tomb on Easter
Sunday to annoint His body. She was the first to see the Risen Lord,
and to announce His Resurrection to the apostles. Accordingly, she
is referred to in early Christian writings as "the apostle to the
apostles."

Mary Magdalene, Mary of Bethany (sister of Martha and Lazarus), and
the unnamed penitent woman who annointed Jesus's feet (Luke 7:36-48)
are sometimes supposed to be the same woman. From this, plus the
statement that Jesus had cast seven demons out of her (Luke 8:2),
has risen the tradition that she had been a prostitute before she
met Jesus.  She is accordingly often depicted in art as a penitent,
weeping.  (Hence the English word "maudlin," applied to someone who
weeps easily.)

PRAYER
   Almighty God, whose blessed Son restored Mary Magdelene
   to health of body and mind, and called her to be a witness of
   his resurrection: Mercifully grant that by thy grace we may
   be healed of all our infirmities and know thee in the power of
   his endless life; who with thee and the Holy Spirit liveth and
   reigneth, one God, now and for ever.
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 10:26:00 EST
From:         WKJ <JAMES@XAVIER.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Re SO-CALLED PRO-CHOICERS

According to the well known scripture in John 11, the Lord doth cry. A man
of sorrows is acquainted with grief. Perhaps He is even the Chief of grief. For
He has suffered from before the foundation of the world. Perhaps even the voice
of the Lord walking in the midst of the garden crying " Adam, where..." was one
shouted through tears.

WKJ
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 10:38:00 EST
From:         JADETW01@ULKYVX.BITNET
Subject:      Divorce and Remarriage

Marty,

Although I'm not Catholic I would like to understand how the standards apply to
my situation.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  1) the divorce itself, since it wasn't
for the cause of adultery, would not be recognized by the church hence, when my
"wife" met this other man we were still, in the church's eyes, married and; 2)
when she had relations with this other man it was adultery since we were, in
the eyes of the church, still married.  If this is true then is the alternative
a divorce or an annulment?

Let me say to all on the list I don't want to sound like I'm trying to place
blame here. From the very beginning I acknowledged my part in all this.  When
the hurt and the anger did finally start to come out, in all honesty, I did try
to place blame until God reminded me of the parable of the servant who owed his
master a great debt.  The debt that God has forgiven me of in no way compares
with any debt incurred by her or the other man.  I believe that when I was
given the grace to forgive them, the healing for me began in earnest.  For that
I praise God.

Thank you to all,

-Jeff
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 11:28:58 -0600
From:         Glennerd Skynard <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Bible study deadline

Hi, everyone:

        My name Glenn Radinsky, and I am presently a soon-to-be-reactivated
college student at Fort Lewis College in Durango.  I have not posted yet,
but have been reading everyone's opinions with interest and a good many
"Amens" thrown in for good measure.

        As far as the format of the list is concerned, the present form
of operations seems to be working fine.  I am reading a wide variety of
opinions and interests, and I am learning a lot.  But as Cmdr Metcalf said
in Top Gun: "Just remember that when it's over we're all on the same team."
The topmost commandment is to love one another, and it is good to see that
there is a lot of love posted on this board.  Let's all endeavor to keep
it that way...

        I would like to be a part of the Bible study group that is being
formed.  We shall see during the school year about whether or not time is
going to allow this to continue...

                                God Bless,



                              Glenn Radinsky
                           (a.k.a. Glennderd :-)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog)
Subject: Re: Reply to Yvette on mult. personalities
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:28:57 GMT

In article <CHRISTIA%92073012321829@ASUACAD.BITNET> 
  NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET (Jesse Carnes) writes:
>Dear Yvette ;
>
>Please forgive my frankness, but I view the individual you mentioned as
>being harrassed directly by demonic influences ... demons, that is.
>
>I have seen demonic activity directly myself, 

But you haven't seen her friend...

>and your friend needs Christian
>counselling and prayer ... avoiding traditional psychotherapy, I hope.

Great.  Here we have a person with a serious psychiatric condition
and you are advocating that they avoid that which might cure them.
This is irrespnsible and dangerous.  You wouldn't (I hope) suggest just
prayer and counselling for someone with a heart condition.

>A great deal ... I did not say all ... of traditional psychotherapy is
>guess work at best and borders on witchdoctoring at worst.

Spoken like an expert I assume?

>Jesse Carnes

C Frog
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:22:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Fact?

<       Just curious here. Is it a fact that Napolean was at Waterloo?
<       If it is a fact, how would you prove it?

I am familiar with what you are trying to get at here.

We can reasonably conclude that Napolean was at Waterloo based on the accounts
of both his supporters and detractors.  Note that I am leaving the possibility
that this is the result of a grand conspiracy open, but am not overly concerned
about it.  Should refuting data come along, I am prepared to abandon the
notion.

I am aware that you are going to argue that the same type of evidence is
present for Jesus, but this isn't true.  We don't have accounts of Jesus'
life and alleged ressurection from people who are opposed to him.  The kind of
records I'm talking about would be along the lines of Josephus Doeicus (a random
peoson who happened to see Jesus wander into town and preach) writing
"Some guy named Jesus came through town and spoke."  We have a number of
references to the _followers_ of Jesus, and reference to their beliefs of
Jesus, but we do not have a first hand account from someone who did not have an
active interest in Jesus.

Much of this debate has gone before.  Much of it can be summed up by looking at
McDowell's _Evidence that Demands a Verdict_ and James Meritt's refutation of
same.   While he isn't posting to the list,I'm sure he'll be more than willing
to send a copy of said refutation to whoever wants it.

Dan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 10:03:18 EDT
From:         "Roger A. Phyall" <ROGER@TEMPLEVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: US Politicians Twisting Scripture

Kerry and Marty:

     I didn't catch Jackson's speech so I'm going by the report that Kerry has
provided trying to answer her questions in my own opinion.

On Mon, 27 Jul 1992 01:05:40 EST Kerry Stephenson said:
>
>Back to Jackson, though.  Another interesting thing is that the underlying
>message of his reference was that Mary would have been condemned by Quayle
>whether she had the child (like Murphy Brown) or had an abortion.  Now,
>I am not quite sure how to read this.  Did Jackson mean to imply that
>Quayle is such an idiot that he would condemn the Virgin Mary?

I would think the political atmosphere being what it is, Jackson was after that
supposition by all hearing.

>Did he mean to imply that Mary *might* have been better off having an abortion
>(which I find incomprehensible coming from a minister!)

Now my question is Why?  Ministers are humans too.  They are on both sides of
this issue the same as the rest of us.  Has anyone been able to quote Scripture
one way or the other on this issue?

>Does he recognize
>that the majority of people on the floor of the convention would have
>*counseled* Mary to have an abortion?  How can he reconcile any of this
>with his professed Christianity?
>
We Christians are known by our works but we are also human and capable of error
same as any of us.  So why does Jackson suddenly find himself having to recon-
cile on the scale of his Christianity?  In preparing his speech he failed to do
proper research which should fault him in the future but shouldn't condemn him
and his "professed Christianity.

>It seems to me that it is a sad day indeed when a political party can
>use the life and teachings of the Lord in service to an explicitly
>anti-Christian agenda.
>
Kerry, where you been?  That's a lot of what politics is! Remember we vote too!

|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|                            |    Cordially & Sincerely yours,  |
| Temple University (038-15) |                                  |
| Computer/Math Bldg. Rm 851 |         Roger A. Phyall          |
| Broad St. & Montgomery Av. |       VM System Programmer       |
| Philadelphia,PA 19122-2585 |          (215) 787-1292          |
|                            |                                  |
|        Internet:           |              Bitnet:             |
|   ROGER@VM.TEMPLE.EDU      |           ROGER@TEMPLEVM         |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:47:03 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Amy Grant and her "Crossover" Music

Um,

I don't mean to be picky, but Amy Grant doesn't sing "gospel" music;
she sings contemporary Christian pop music, which is a genre that
does not always carry the same messages as gospel music, hymns, praise
music, and the like.

On another issue, I saw a group this weekend called "Arrested Development"
singing a rather Christian-sounding song called, I believe "Tennessee"
which consisted of a lot of racism-related anguish on the part of Black
people, and beseeched "Lord please help me understand your plan."  While
I am not certain whether the group is Christian or not, watching the video
made me think about Christ and about how He would feel about racism.
Has anyone heard of this group?  Are they Christian or not?

Just wondering.
               Love INC,
                        --Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:08:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      MORE ON THE PROBLEM OF EVIL.
X-To:         christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

Jesse brings up a very interesting and much misunderstood point:  The
problem of evil.  Just what is evil anyway?

Here are some things that Christians past and present believe are evil and
a sin:

  Movies,
  Card playing,
  Gambling,
  Dancing,
  Rock music,
  Television,
  Basball on Sunday / Sabbath,
  Eating pork,
  Eating meat of any kind,
  Smoking,
  Chewing,
  Undressing in spouse's presence,
  Birth control,
  Alcohol,
  Drugs,
  Fiction,
  Jewelry,
  Long hair for men,
  Short hair for women,
  Very plain clothes,
  No music in church,
  No instrumental music in church,
  and many more.

Please note that you will not find one word in the New Testament
disallowing any of these.  They are moralistic inventions by those engaging
in false piety.  Though the reasons may be honest, they are nontheless
wrongly applied.

Now, here are some things that are relatively common among Christians:

  Stubbornness,
  Irritability,
  Hatefullness,
  Lying,
  Grouchiness,
  Causing dissention,
  Short tempered,
  Mean to spouse,
  Abusive of children,
  Lustful thoughts,
  and many more.

These are common enough, and are expressly forbidden in the NT.  You can
rant about the evils of abortion and gambling, but if you mention these
attitudinal problems, you begin stepping on the toes of the "saints."  I'm
not trying to make anyone feel guilty, but when was the last time you
cursed a driver for cutting you off, or hung up the pohone and made a
raspberry sound, or undressed a lady / gentleman with your thoughts?

You see, evils are not what they often seem to be.  For the most part, evil
is not what you do, but what you think.  In fact, evil thinking must always
preceed evil action.  So, where does evil thinking come from, where did it
originate, why is it the only choice of man unless God saves him, is evil
necessary for God's plan to run as His will demands it run.  Maybe we
should think on some of these

Dan Graham
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Koran
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:43:36 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

K. Paulson,

     Thank you for sending the info. on the Koran and particularly for the
Arabic language item.
                         Peace in the Prince of Peace, Zane.
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:21:05 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Clinton's acceptance speech and Scriptural allusions
              21 Jul 1992 00:29:52 -0500 from <peacock5293@ISCSVAX.UNI.EDU>

Jordan:

When I asked if you (we) were packed, I meant, are we all prepared for
the Rapture--cause things sure look like they're "waxing worse and
worse" to me.  Sorry for the confusion.

                                       Love INC,
                                                ---Kerry
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:38:27 CDT
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      Multiple Personalities

Fellow Christians.
I have a question and I am seeking some advice.
Is or do you believe it is possible for people to have multiple
personalities?

If you do believe, then what would you do to try and help a person
who have or think they have multiple personalities?

************************************************************************
*  Yvette Traylor     "We are His people and the sheep of his pasture."*
*  Dallas County Community College District             Psalm 100:3    *
*  Computer Programmer/Analyst                                         *
************************************************************************
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:02:28 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Spiritual leadership in the home
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              Hutter" at Jul 28, 92 3:56 pm

Wolfgang has asked me to comment, so I will... from the start..

>>     Still, more examples would be helpful to me.  For those of you in
>>hierarchical marriages, can you give me, say, 3 or 4 examples of spiritual
>>leadership that occur in your home in a typical week?
>
1) Blessing the home
2) Blessing our finances
3) Spiritual Warfare over our home, my wife, my possesions
4) Spiritual direction questions that may need to be addressed as a family..

>>1) Wolfgang Hutter said that the husband's leadership shelters his wife from
>>spiritual attacks.  Exactly what kind of spiritual attacks are intended
>>here?  Can you give some examples?
>
>I don't know which kind of attacks we will have to face or which kinds
>there are at all (maybe Ian has more experience and/or knowledge), but I
>think of (unnatural) despair, diseases or doubt.
>

Yes, well this is really part 3.
The Spiritual leader is responsible to some extent of the Spiritual state of
the house hold.. There is many times when the leader must recognise attacks
made on the household manifesting in sickness, relationship troubles, lack
of finance etc (the recognising can be done by ANYONE attuned to the Spirit).

Once recognised then the leader should act in the Authority that a christian
posseses in the Spiritual Realm and rebuke the devourer over his family..

It is interesting to relect on the days of Israel and her kings, when the
Spiritual State of the 'King' was directly reflected in the Spiritual state
of the people, and directly related to the well being and state of the
kingdom.. In Davids time, he was a righteous king, and Israel prospered..
When Solomon went down hill, we start in motion the divided kingdom and
eventual exile of the Israel nation(s)..

I am constantly called to go into warfare over our house.. I do not for
one moment think that the Father/Husband is the only responsible for
warfare, but one could say that the buck stops with him..


>Wolfgang <><



---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:00:56 CDT
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      Multiple personalities

From what I have heard today, and from what I have seen the person in
question do. I am even more confused, than ever.  But, it is time for me
to depart, so I will just have to stay confused until Monday. Thanks for
all yalls help Yvette

************************************************************************
*  Yvette Traylor     "We are His people and the sheep of his pasture."*
*  Dallas County Community College District             Psalm 100:3    *
*  Computer Programmer/Analyst                                         *
************************************************************************
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 01:05:40 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: US Politicians Twisting Scripture

Marty:

Thank you for bringing up Jesse Jackson's speech.  I had meant to bring it
up before, but got bogged down in the Clinton/Gore stuff.  I was disturbed
by Clinton's use of Scripture, but I fully admit that I was horrified at
Jackson's re-writing of the birth of Our Lord.  I think I was at Mark's
house that night, so I didn't post anything on it then, and next thing
I knew "New Covenant" and Clinton's quotations cropped up, so.....

You are absolutely correct.  Jackson's use of Scripture is even worse
than Clinton's because he is a Reverend, and people assume that he
speaks with some authority on these matters.  I expect Cuomo, Clinton,
Gore, and so on to speak out of ignorance on details of the Bible.  I
am disgusted that Jackson would sink so low.

What I found interesting, as well, was that Carter spoke before Jackson,
and did not *mention* abortion (I believe he is the only speaker that
did not.)  Why?  Simple enough answer.  Carter is prolife, and Ron
Brown was having none of that.

Back to Jackson, though.  Another interesting thing is that the underlying
message of his reference was that Mary would have been condemned by Quayle
whether she had the child (like Murphy Brown) or had an abortion.  Now,
I am not quite sure how to read this.  Did Jackson mean to imply that
Quayle is such an idiot that he would condemn the Virgin Mary?  Did he
mean to imply that Mary *might* have been better off having an abortion
(which I find incomprehensible coming from a minister!)  Does he recognize
that the majority of people on the floor of the convention would have
*counseled* Mary to have an abortion?  How can he reconcile any of this
with his professed Christianity?

It seems to me that it is a sad day indeed when a political party can
use the life and teachings of the Lord in service to an explicitly
anti-Christian agenda.

                                         Love INC,
                                                  --Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:16:58 -0400
From:         "Toni J. Benner" <tjbenner@COLBY.EDU>
Subject: Re: trying to read Prophet
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

If this is very new book, most libraries have the policy of not loaning
books that are less than 1 year old. They want to keep the new books for
their own patrons. I had requested one on our ILL. but was refused also.
I hope you are more successful than I was!
Toni Benner
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