From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: CHRISTIANITY AND NEWAGE
Date: 25 Jan 93 02:45:02 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <1993Jan22.224015.27511@cs.tulane.edu> goff@pops.navo.navy.mil writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.163208.27980@digi.lonestar.org>, gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:
>|> 
>|> Christians, fundamental and otherwise, have not come in large numbers to
>|> the idea of repeated earth lives, and most regard it as heretical.  There
>|> are others, however, who see in this idea a truth that actually fulfills
>|> and confirms much that is otherwise a mystery in traditional Christian
>|> doctrine.  Rudolf Frieling in his "Christianity and Reincarnation" presents
>|> a comprehensive and thoughtful view of an approach that reconciles the
>|> basic tenets of Christianity, including the divinity, incarnation, death
>|> and resurrection of Christ, and the doctrines of sin and salvation, and also
>|> the idea of the last judgement,with the larger picture of destiny (karma) and 
>|> reincarnation.  Perhaps some readers will be interested in this approach, which draws on the work of Rudolf Steiner.
>
>The bible says that it is appointed unto man to die once and then judgement,
>therefore, there is no such thing as reincarnation according to scripture.
>Also, Christianity does not give enlightenment, it stresses man's need
>for forgiveness and it is this principle that makes it completely different
>from any other religion. 
>
>-V.Goff
>
>Disclaimer: My opinions are my own.

Thank you for pointing this out.  It is a good place to start.
Hebrews 9:27 is often quoted as a biblical refutation of the idea
of reincarnation.  Closer examination, as indicated by Rudolf
Frieling in "Christianity and Reincarnation", shows that this is
not really the case.  The following passage is not meant to
demonstrate the biblical validity of reincarnation, but only to
answer the challenge that Hebrews refutes it.

It is most important that a Christian view of reincarnation
differs from those of the oriental teachings in its view of
Christ.  Christ, as Frieling emphasizes, incarnated only once in
the flesh and never will again (his second coming is an entirely
different thing, and does not come in the flesh, as the followers
of Benjamin Creme claim their "Maitreya Christ has done). 
Likewise, Christ is not an "adept" or an "ascended master", but
the very divine being, the Son of God, that Christianity has
always proclaimed him to be.  And he really became man, born of
the virgin Mary, suffered, died and was buried, and rose again on
the third day.  

Also, the relationship of reincarnation and karma to the
salvation of Christ through his death on Golgotha and his
resurrection to the individual needs further discussion.  But in
essence the basic teachings of Christianity throughout the ages
are not altered by this view.  This includes the teachings about
the Second Coming and the Last Judgement.  Frieling deals with
each of these subjects and others as well

What I offer here is only a view of this one passage in Hebrews
that V. Goff quotes to refute reincarnation as being contradicted
by scripture.  Clearly, the discussion would have to continue from
this point.  But it is at least a start.

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)

From "Christianity and Reincarnation" by  Rudolf Frieling.

   Something from the Letter to the Hebrews should also be
mentioned which is often carelessly quoted as a negation of the
idea of reincarnation: 'And just as it is appointed for men to
die once, and after that comes judgement' (9:27).  The text
continues: 'so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins
of many, will appear a second time'.  It is the Letter to the
Hebrews which again and again uses the word 'once' (hapax or
ephapax) in relation to the deed of Christ in order to make it
quite clear that Christ made the descent into the sphere of
death, into sarx, through Golgotha once and for all, and that His
'coming again' will be a spiritual event occurring under entirely
different conditions.  The idea of death is here used as
indicative of something irrevocable and decisive that concludes a
man's life on earth and happens in the course of it only _once_. 
A mortal on earth is thereby able to understand just what in the
highest sense is meant by 'once' in relation to Christ's deed. 
Repeated earth lives are certainly not thought of in the Letter
to the Hebrews any more than elsewhere in the New Testament.  The
one death that definitely ends a man's life on earth is brought
in as a point of comparison.  This uniqueness of the experience
of death would not be affected by thoughts of reincarnation.  As
a particular person, a man dies only once.  In a following
incarnation, the eternal individuality that goes through all of
them builds up another person, through which it 'sounds' (per-
sonat).*  But death is something that happens _once_ to each
person.  After that--judgement.  This would also be affirmed from
the point of view of reincarnation.  Death is followed by the
experience of the sternest trials.  Besides, the original text of
that Letter to the Hebrews does not say 'the judgement', but only
'judgement' (krisis).  There is indeed also in the New Testament
the concept of a Last Judgement but that does not exclude
'judgement' being experienced 'already now' in each case after
death.  There are also moments even in earthly life when one can
be profoundly shaken by the experience of a 'judgement'.  It
meant judgement for Peter when he said to Christ: 'Depart from
me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord' (Luke 5:8).  Thus, this
sentence from the Letter to the Hebrews contains nothing that
would stand in the way of the possibility of repeated lives on
earth.  But how is it with the other eschatological passages of
the New Testament?  What do they look like if the idea of
reincarnation is brought into the picture?

* The word comes from the latin 'persona', an actor's mask.
Trans.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Rudolf  Frieling, "Christianity and Reincarnation". copyright
1977 by Floris Books, Edinburgh.  Excerpt is from Chapter III,
Reincarnation and the Bible: Old and New Testament.  Pages 80-81. 
Translated by Rudolf and Margaret Koehler from the German,
"Christentum und Wiederverkoerperung". copyright 1974, Verlag
Urachhaus, Stuttgart.
-----------------------------------------------------------

"Christ is not the teacher, as one is wont to say, Christ is not
the inaugurator, He is the *content* of Christianity." 
- Schelling.

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic