Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 10 Apr 1992 11:48:20 CDT
From: <U49146@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Asian Immigrants on SAT English

In article <121970@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov says:
>
>In article <92098.085800U49146@uicvm.uic.edu> U49146@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
>->In article <121835@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov says:
>->>
>->>In article <92095.184430U49146@uicvm.uic.edu> U49146@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
>->>->In article <56838@cup.portal.com>, Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com says:
>->>->>
>la
>->nguage is not English, you have (or have the choice to) take TOEFL.  So this
>in
>->cludes also immigrants (unless you're native lge is English also).
>
>Yes.  And they also say that even if you qualify to get in, they are many
>qualified candidates.   They can only take a few.  I was in a summer program
>sponsor by university for high school students and they suggest that if
>yoiu really want to get into a competitive program you should not take
>TOEFL.
>

>->And I did
>->say that the SAT is required by some colleges (actually not only for
>immigrants
>->but also for foreign students).  Now some college/universities say that you
>can
>->sub the TOEFL, others say that you don't have to take TOEFL if you graduated
>fr
>->om a high school where the principal language of instruction was English.
>Othe
>->rs require both regardless, etc.  How they decide whether or not given the
>oppo
>->rtunities you had, you learned what they consider adequate is up to the
>individ
>->ual colleges.
>
>And yeah, some universities don't require any exams, and I am sure we are
>all so eager to go there. :-)
>
I know I am.:)

>->And yeah I know of people who took the SAT in less than 7 months
>->since they were in this country and others who took it before even setting a
>fo
>->ot here.  Now how long you stayed here before you took the SAT, and whether r
>o
>->not it was fair is a relative question.  Since English is an international
>lang
>->uage, I assume you had some kind of exposure to it in your school in Asia.
>
>Yeah, since English is such a popular language, we can very safely assume that
>everyone got some exposure to it before high schol.  Give me a break, in
>some Asian countries students don't learn anything beyond the 26 letter.
>Why do they need to learn English if they stay in their countries?
>
No!  Absolutely not!I won't give you a break! :).  But seriously, if these peop
le are considering coming here at all, they should make some effort to learn so
mething beyond the 26 letters.  That is of course if they want to have a good
chance here and iftheir lifestyle(economic conditions etc etc) allowsit over th
ere. And we are hardly talking about people who are going to stay there, but in
today's world, it would hardly hurt you if you learn another language.

>->It
>->might have been lousy or good.  And when you came, it depends in what kind
>of
>E
>->nglish class you enrolled and the intensity etc.  When I said ages I meant
>some
>->thing like 10 years, but from my perspective 4 yrs is ages.
>
>You must be so smart that you can master a language in 4 years.  I wish
>I can be as smart as you...
>
Your sarcasm is off mark. But I think you should reread what I wrote just befor
e your comment to see in what context staying here and learning English can be
seen (which was the point anyway since you said you took the SAT in less than 4
yrs since you came here).

>->Anyway my whole po
>->int is that compared to native speakers, I don't see how these smart kids   e
>los
>->ut because of English skills.  If theyare applying to prestigious schools,
>they
>->certainly have a lot of essays etc where they can make their situations
>perfect
>->ly clear.
>
>And I believe those admission committee members really sit down and analyze
>every essay carefully.
>

I believe they do though I might be sadly deluded.  Maybe somebody out there ca
n enlighten us on the inside state of affairs.

>->As for other schools, they are not that fussy anyway.  If you lose o
>->ut to a person with a relatively similar background who did better,that's a
>dif
>->ferent story.
>->
>->Whoa, that was long.  I have certainly not served on Admissions committee
>(:)
>b
>->ut it would make sense to me that they have different standards.  Anyway my
>und
>->erstanding is that Asians (as some people like to hammer it) usually enroll n
>i
>->technical fields, so I don't see where it really matter unless of course the
>co
>->lleges want to use it as a criterion b/n otherwise equally qualified
>candidates
>->
>
>I believe there is a general minimum overall SAT score requirement for some
>school and some majors.
>
There is none here at UIC. It just seems to me rather incredible that anybody w
ith a 750 math (is this too much?  Assuming they are smart :)), planning to enr
oll in a technical field will be refused admission because of say something lik
e a 490 English.  I mean if they are planning to major in History, English or w
hatever that's a different story.

>->Sofia
>
>--
>Terry Cheung
>tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov

Sofia

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american