From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Purity
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:41:31
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: boserj@netcom.com's message of Fri, 1 Jan 1993 01:42:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan1.014238.17022@netcom.com> boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:

> Roy was telling me that if hets could use their sexuality to oppress others,
> then turn about was fair play, and maybe even necessary.  And I agreed, but

Why did you agree, especially when you say this:

> I was wondering the whole time when the fighting would end, when sexuality
> wasnt flung around like a brick laden glove at someone's face.

How can fighting end if each "side" keeps starting more and more fights,
and being more and more divisive?

Anyway, I'd like to examine this idea.

First, let's look at "hets can use their sexuality to oppress others."

What do you mean by "can" here?  Many people (het or otherwise)
disapprove of doing this.  Others think it is a fine idea.  I have been
the focus of gays doing the same thing, so apparently they "can" do
this, too.  Nonetheless, there are many of us who think it is wrong to
do so.  People *can* perform lots of actions.  That doesn't mean that
all those actions are therefore "okay," "right," "good," or whatever
judgement-type word you prefer.

Now, for the "turnabout" part.  Suppose that I, who have never attempted
to oppress anyone by my sexuality, am oppressed by someone else.  Is
this "turnabout"?  I don't think so.  Let's look at a different example.
Suppose that a bi person physically injures a number of straight
people.  Is it now "fair play" for these straight people (or others) to
physically injure bi people?  How about vice-versa?

If you believe that the oppression of others is wrong, then isn't it
better for you to *avoid* doing it than to *perpetuate* it by starting
it yourself?  Do you really think that oppressing others will have any
good effect?  Look at the effect oppression has had on you - even if you
started out believe that oppression was wrong, you now believe that
there are cases in which it is right.  Might this not also be the
reaction of the straight people you oppress?  What do you think is most
likely:

1. Well, I used to think it was wrong to oppress bi people, but since
   they're doing it to me, I think it's okay to do it to them.

2. Aha!  I *knew* these bi people deserved oppressing - just look at
   them now, trying to oppress *me* - they're just as bad as I thought.

3. Oh, how terrible it is to be oppressed.  I'll never do that again to
   anyone!  (Until, of course, someone like Roy comes along and tells
   them "turnabout is fair play.")

I'm definitely not saying lie down and let people walk all over you.
There's a lot of ground between that and attacking them in return,
though.  If you have to defend yourself, go for it.  However, is
oppression really a defense?

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                      | ~Never had a lot of faith in human beings/
muffy@mica.berkeley.edu            |  but sometimes we manage to shine/like a
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm   |  light on a hill beaming out to space/from
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.|  somewhere hard to find~ - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: soc.bi