HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:43:31 GMT
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James Knowlton (Ace@auilcs0.UUCP) wrote:
:
: Gee, if you say so.  Personally - i like a functional computer better than a
: screenful of niceties.  Let's take windows 3.1 for example.  Looks fine on the
: outside - is not functional and useful on the inside.
:

Windows is a hell of a lot more functional for me than AmigaOS until you
can tell me where I can buy AmigaOS versions of Quicken and FrameMaker.
What do you know about the inside of Windows anyway?

:
: You have a very strange
: idea of reality.
:

Look who's talking.

:
:   __  /// James Knowlton - President & CEO - Alternate Reality Video Graphics
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: A4000 Pricing
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 13:15:43 GMT

In <jprad.726559708@faatcrl> jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan) writes:
>  If the set of all capitalists are greedy then how can a Power Up program
>be offered in country of capitalists?

If a powerup program increases sales ond profit the people still look
greedy :)

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: Marc Barrett's first C program?
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 09:44:03 GMT

In article <58466@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
>
>#if 1
># define some		all
># define 3		500
># define opinion	simple and obvious fact
>#endif

#ifdef broken
#define slightly        totally
#endif


> //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
>| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////


-- 
David Meiklejohn (davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au)
 - PC's, Unix, and networks by day, Amigas by night...
Currently residing in Mareeba, Far North Queensland, Australia
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Date: 7 Jan 1993 15:50:41 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

In article <C0GtEn.LAs@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
'>Ok... Amiga community... look out.
'>According to Greg here, they have finally come up with a 486 that
'>can outperform the "old 1meg A500".
'>Although, it is a little hard to believe.

	Not very hard to believe for me, since I owned both at one time.

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:36:26 GMT
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Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
:
: >Of course it was, unless you were running Windows 3.0 (not 3.1), specifically
: >set to Real Mode.  Were you?
:
: Eek.  Umm.  I don't know.  I do remember "turning off" protected mode.
: Does 3.1 lack the capability?  That would suggest I was running under
: 3.0, which may explain even further why it didn't work...
:

On the other hand, you couldn't have been running 3.0, because you insisted
that FastDisk was turned on, and 3.0 did not have FastDisk.  So which is it,
Greg?

: Greg
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:13:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.152201.9997@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>LaMonte Koop (lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU) wrote:
>:
>:    Jerry, why do you insist on making anything said with respect that perhaps
>:the software engineers who developed OS/2 were influenced by AmigaOS out to be
>:a farce?  Why should this bother you?
>:
>
>I find it incredibly hard to believe, for three reasons.  First, OS/2
>development started in 1984, before the Amiga was around.  Second, I've

	When did Amiga development begin? I think it started around April
of 1985 and they finished the first production models about four weeks
later. But then again, the Workbench disk still had 829k free back then,
and kickstart only composed of the romboot.libray, and the only system
software supplied was romwack. 

>read two books about the making of OS/2; each mentions plenty of other
>operating systems; neither mentions AmigaOS.  Third, this claim strongly

	When Spectrum Holobyte released Wordtris they did not mention
Letris, which was released one year earlier as a public domain program,
written by *ME*. And you can guess who had the better program (but they
had a larger dictionary...I can only type so much by hand). That is when
I learned NOT to send samples of my games to big companies. (True story).

>resembles other claims made by Amiga buffs, who seem to believe that
>everybody, including giants like HP and SGI, have copied from and are
>competing with the Amiga.

	I do believe that SGI was interested in the Amiga custom chip set
during its production. And of course they are competing with the Amiga,since 
the Amiga is bringing software and hardware to the masses, which SGI and
HP are not doing.

>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |



-- 
      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS 14.4 v.32bis
ixemul.library mpeg_play mpeg_movies jpegs gifs 3d_objs music_mods adobe_fonts
	 login: ANONYMOUS password: GUEST for unrestricted downloads
From: alan@xserver.uts.amdahl.com (Alan Bomberger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:24:59 GMT
Organization: Amdahl

Alas, I hate to sound like a Mac biggot.. but

In article <1993Jan4.230059.4046@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>, mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
|> In <C0CJnH.4DL@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:

|> 
|> I'm not sure about system 7, but the double-click feature is 'broken'
|> (to stay in your terminology) on the Mac as well. Try to open a document
|> by double clicking on it when the program is already loaded into memory.
|> A nice requester appears which tells you that "the program isn't found
|> or is already loaded". You have to use the program's menu to load the
|> file (and have to search for the directory first since the file requester
|> is no AppWindow).
|
|> Michael van Elst
|> UUCP:     

This is an application bug.  In fact the correctly implemented application
will act exactly like the user did use the Open menu selection.   I was
totally surprized by this behavior when I wrote my first serious Mac
application as I had been programmed to believe that the double click
behavior you described was a Finder feature.  It is not!  How all the
fakery is done eludes me, but double clicking on my application's project
icon's causes my code to process an Open request, call the File Requester,
get the correct answer from the file requester, and Open the file.  Magic!

Peace!
From: mike@struad.cts.com (Michael Cianflone)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 7 Jan 93 05:09:20 GMT
Organization: Structured Applications & Designs, Inc. R&D Institute.

>In article <C0CyxF.2FM@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>
>>  If having two disk icons for every disk was a "feature" 
>>Commodore would have left the FastFileSystem that way, since the FFS did 
>>exactly the same thing under 1.3.  Yet Commodore rewrote the FFS to remove 
>>this "feature", but has never bothered to do so for CrossDOS in 2.1 or 3.0.

  Maybe Commodore didn't write the CrossDOS sofware. Maybe Commodore just
licensed it from Consultron. Maybe Commodore doesn't have access to the source
code to make changes. Head out of ass time again, Marc.
From: Darren_Spencer@guru.apana.org.au (Darren Spencer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 1200/4000 pricing
Distribution: world
Date: 2 Jan 93 23:16:25 +1100
Organization: Guru Meditation BBS

Hi there,

Is this Power Up deal official?

Do Non-american commodore users get shafted as usual?

Commodore computers are sold in lots of other countries apart form America,
so what about giving us overseas users a Power-Up Deal?

Thoughts anyone?

Cya round,

     Darren

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Sierra to start advertising in games
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:36:27 GMT

In order to offset the estimated $260,000 to $300,000 invested in
developing the average Sierra release, the company has decided to start
embedding advertisements in their games. Starting with Space Quest V,
Sierra will begin incorporating advertisements for the Sprint Corporation
into their programs.

There goes the neighborhood. Sounds to me like Ken and Roberta are
looking for a new jacuzzi.
From: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us (MARK BROWN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Comdex/Quicktime released for the PC
Reply-To: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us
X-Software: Legend (216-825-2747) UUCPShell v4.9/med20Dec92
X-Disclaimer: Opinions of users do not necessarily reflect those of managment
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:49:34 EST
Organization: The Legend BBS Public Access (216)825-2747

I get a kick out of it when Travis totally dismisses the Amigas Multi 
tasking and Graphic Environs. What does He think the REST of the 
ENTIRE computerized industry is doing? TRUE Multitasking and a 
SEEMLESS Graphic Environment. The Amiga will be quick time Compatible, 
but we'll also have CDXL. Quick Time Uses Raw horse power(hence the 
Need for a Decent moto 68020 or greater) while CDXL is sooo much more 
EFFICIENT it uses 2 DMA channels and 8% of the 68000's clock cycles 
and does the same thing, You tell me which is more of an Achievement.
You tell Me which Machine is going to run Real Time Video in 1/3 
screen and Still have the Horse Power to get stuff done. Not any thing 
going with Apples quick time method. Maybe if the Mac were better 
designed they wouldn't have to depend on Pure Horsepower, and actually 
use some Finesse. But that is Why the Amiga is out there. Facts Enough 
Everyone?
     <Mark>

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: A4000 Pricing
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 05:37:58 GMT

In article <1ig2veINN5mh@mozz.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
writes:

>	CORRECTION!  YOU might be able to get an Amiga 4000 for $2700, but 
>   that is not the absolute selling price.  Its $3200 without monitor around 
>   here, $3700 with A1960.  So the other persons prices may be quite accurate
>   I'm afraid.

How is it that the dealers in your area are opting out of the power-up deal?
According to the post in .announce, the current promotion has the A4000
priced at $2699 U.S. and this includes ADPro and DPaint IV/AGA. 

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:44:32 GMT
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Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
:
: You see, though, that's the point.  There _IS_ a choice for personal
: computers--they very rarely have a NEED for VM.
:

I disagree.  Look at the size of today's applications, and you will too.
If you need to multitask several of them, you need VM.

:
: There are 64-megabyte Zorro III cards available.
:

Irrelevant.  Hard disk is cheaper than RAM, unless you can tell me where
I can buy 340MB RAM for $600.

:
: My argument is that real-time-based personal computers haven't reached
: the point where the architecture REQUIRES that VM exist.  I don't
: think it will.  And as long as there are people developing real-time
: operating systems, there will be operating systems that don't offer
: real-time killers like VM.
:

There are real-time VM systems, so your notion about VM killing "real-time"
is incorrect.

: Greg
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: mike@struad.cts.com (Michael Cianflone)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Distribution: world
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:57:03 PST
Organization: Structured Applications & Designs, Inc. R&D Institute.

In article <1993Jan7.064852.11776@usl.edu> das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>In article <jcook.0n5p@cryo.rain.com> jcook@cryo.rain.com (James Cook) writes:
>>
>>In <jm39s70.06sq@sycom.mi.org>, jm39s70@sycom.mi.org (Jim Mallory) writes:
>>> 
>>> >I have always wondered where all those 68k-chips go as Apple and
>>> >Commodore and all those laser printers can't be the only ones using
>>> >68k as 68k-series sells a lot more than those combined. Anyone have
>>> >any idea (excluding MB)?
>>> >
>>> 
>>> Well Wellfleet Routers use 68020's and 030's in their Communications Engine.  
>>> And they use 68040's in their Routing Engines.
>>> 
>>A great number of industrial control systems (programmable logic
>>controllers, etc.) also use the Motorola 680x0 series...
>
>recent PC Computing suggests that 68K-family processors makes up 
>12% of 'business', whatever that means.

  Maybe the 68000 family makes up 12% of Motorola's income.


>
>>    _  James Cook, PE - Electrical and Control Systems Engineer 
>> _ //                    jcook@cryo.rain.com                     
>-- 
>Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: c92andst@odalix.ida.liu.se (Andreas Stenmark)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: CIS Dept, Univ of Linkoping, Sweden
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:42:06 GMT

papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:

>Think of it as a vote...I voted for OS/2, ATI and Intel.  Leaders in
>their respective fields.

Intel has never been in the front line of microprocessor development. And
that's a fact. But, a well-written OS (maybe OS/2) could successfully
hide that fact to the user. But Intel are NOT leaders of their area. Maybe
in volume, but I don't think you meant that.

>You withheld your vote by casting it for someone who will never amount
>to anything.  It's like voting for Ross Perot.

Ross what? ;-)
--

------///-------------------------------------------------------------------
     /// Andreas Stenmark - Computer Science at LiTH, Sweden
    ///  Internet: c92andst@und.ida.liu.se or stenmark@lysator.liu.se
\\ ///   - Don't bother - I'm already dead...
 \X//
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:07:08 GMT

In article <C0qrv4.6H4@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:

>A company doesn't stay in business too long if it doesn't keep it's
>drivers up to date.  It's like a workstation vendor that only sells
>SystemV2.x Unix....you have to keep your unix up-to-date to compete.

Oh really? It seems to have worked for ATI. Nothing like buying a 486/66
with a $700 VL Ultra Pro and running it at 640x480.

>I haven't dropped back to DOS in the last year.  I run DOS programs in
>a window, (or full screen for blinding speed) but I don't ever, ever,
>ever, drop back to a dos command line, a dos compiler, a dos desktop
>etc.

You're picking nits. Remove MS-DOS from your system and see how far
you get. Whether you run it in a window or not, you're still using it.

>All the better.  Same features means that price forces down
>competition...and then eventually prices get so cheap that 

>A>it gets put on the motherboard
>B>someone HAS to innovate to stay in business.

C. The innovators incur substantial losses and the industry stagnates.
D. The consumer gets to choose from a million flavours of vanilla, each
   flogging the other with nonsensical rhetoric about which is better.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 22:44:54 GMT

In <C0CFro.MuE@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>form, Commodore abandoned it.  I wish Commodore would do two things: come up
>with an IFF form for a text file with imbedded ILBM graphics.

Have a try and actually read the IFF specs.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 13 Jan 1993 01:53:14 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan12.154229.11004@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Once again, Greg, you fail to grasp the meaning of the words you read.
>I'm not using applications to justify the OS.  I'm saying that Windows
>has the functionality to support applications the likes of which you
>can't get anywhere else.  This functionality includes complete device
>independence and communications protocols such as OLE.

Except that ISN'T what you said:  You said that Windows had more
applications than we could ever hope for, as if somehow that justified
Windows as an OS.  See the point?  If you're going to CHANGE what you
mean, if you MEAN that Windows has functionality that we could never
hope to have, and that makes it better, that's one thing.  Telling us
that Windows has more applications than we'll ever see, and that makes
it better, is another issue altogether, okay?  So try to stick to
feeding us one typed row of bullshit at a time...

>But while we're at it, perhaps YOU'd sound less dumb if you could tell me
>what an OS is good for without applications.

I would, if I could think of a single OS that didn't have
applications.  Fortunately, even lowly AmigaOS has applications that
you can't get on other systems.  You wouldn't happen to have a Windows
version of a VR 3-d modeler such as Caligari Professional, would you?
I guess that's not an application then.  Don't worry, I'll think of
something, I'm sure...

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 7 Jan 1993 18:18:07 -0500
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>: nor was VM added to BSD. VM is an intrinsic
>: feature of any UNIX.

>I thought UNIX did not originally have VM, and that the first UNIX version
>to have it was BSD.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

  Memory swapping has been in UNIX since the PDP/11.  BSD added demand paging,
SVR4 has a hybrid of both schemes to reduce page faults.

  -jack-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 12:39:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.013140.5310@msi.com> bill@west.msi.com writes:
>
>Keep OS/2 out of this if you don't know what you are talking about.
>

     Actually I _do_ know what I'm talking about... but only based on
pre-2.0 versions of OS/2.  I support a couple of OS/2 1.3 machines
running as database servers.  Haven't been able to upgrade to 2.0
and play with the WPS because both the DB software and Banyan's netbios
have lots of problems with it.

     Anyway, I stand partially corrected. :-)


-- 
Don Lloyd                / "No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of \
don@chopin.udel.edu      | another computer is a kludge.  It has nothing to do |
GeNIE: D.LLOYD7          \ with the Intel CPU"  - Jerry Shekhel                /
BIX: DRL  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Originator: torrie@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:37:01 GMT

pjotr@ludd.luth.se (Peter Sj|str|m) writes:

>In <C0pMHr.15C@news.udel.edu> don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) writes:

>>>Yes, and once the 68060 IS released (probably over a year from now and
>>>behind schedule), how long will it take for a stock Amiga to
>>>incorporate it.  They are selling PCs that can use the Pentium already.

>	Well, since Motorola says 1st Q -94 for mass production, that's
>not late, I think. :)

  Except that Motorola's track record on delivering the 040 was abysmal
- I don't expect the 060 to be any better.  We'll see...

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
"...there is only one thing worse than having marketing people on a project,
 and that is having no marketing people on a project."  - Larry Tesler.