HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mallon@hsi.com (Dan Mallon-Kraft)
Subject: Re: group for judo?
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford, CT
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:34:01 GMT

In article <ZARR.92Dec17004711@lk-hp-14.hut.fi> zarr@lk-hp-14.hut.fi (Mari (Black Panther) Sepp{) writes:
>
>With the volume right now..around 80 articles per day..I skip all that
>don't have judo in their subject and that way might miss a lot. :-(

If I don't have time to read more than just the Judo articles, I mark
anything else as unread while I scan the topics.  Perhaps your newsreader
has the capability to do so also.

Dan
From: hawrysch@husc4.harvard.edu (George Hawrysch)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re:Tai Chi in Berkeley/Oakland
Date: 31 Dec 92 12:18:24 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Harvard University Science Center


>Can anyone recommend a T'ai Chi
>instructor or school in the Berkeley/Oakland area?


Try Ross Smith in El Cerrito (510-237-6020)
or Fong Ha in Berkeley (510-524-4718).

Ross teaches a small group on Saturdays and (I think) Wednesdays,
almost private instruction. Doesn't advertize. Not expensive, but
I don't know his exact rates. Major emphasis on meditation; he is
not personally turned on by the martial art side. Quiet type of
guy. Primary style is a modified Yang (modification is mainly a
big infusion of Hsing-I principles for the first several years of
study). I have been training with him since 1974, so obviously
I'm sold.

Fong teaches a rather large group in a park across the street from
his home on Saturday mornings. He also teaches in lots of other
places at other times. Costs roughly $40/month. Primary style is
I-Chuan, but there is definitely plenty of Tai Chi going on too
(I don't know what style). I have only worked out with him a few
times. Loud type of guy. Makes an excellent impression; his senior
students are very good too.

If you eventually discover anyone else interesting in the area,
please drop me a note!

-- George --
From: wchow@questor.org (William Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: martial
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 23:01:43 PST
Organization: Questor|Free Usenet News|Vancouver, BC: +1 604 681 0670

  Hello to any pugilistic practitioners out there.  It's me
again,  the single solitary new user that seems to be only
one frequenting this message board.  I guess it's that time 
of the year when people are mostly on holidays so I'm 
posting a new message to invite anyone who wants to converse
.  Perhaps other users on this board,  at their convenience,
can enlighten me as to the orientation,  conduct and
 protocol required on or for this board.  If possible,  if 
the moderator can make his identity known it would be give 
me someone to direct queries or suggestions to.  Otherwise,  
from now on I will wing it ( with some discretion in the
 extent of my conduct ).
 
Bye!!!
 
Richard Chan
 
Those who speak the least hear the most - Ninjutsu proverb
 
 
 


--
  William Chow (wchow@questor.org)
    | QUESTOR:  Free Dial-in Public Access to Usenet Health, Medical News |
    | & AIDS forums, and Info on Global Environment at  +1 604  681 0670. |
From: relkind@jade.tufts.edu (Rob 'SX' Elkind)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Looking for Tai Chi Class/Teacher in Boston Area
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:14:07 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA


>   I am looking for a Tai Chi Teacher that teached classes on the weekends.

My Sifu teaches Kung Fu on Mon, Wed, and Fri.  He  also teaches Tai Chi 
Tue and Sat.  He is an excellent instructor, but he doesn't speak any 
English.  (There are a few studentsa nd his wife that can translate though) 
He is a grand master who has been teaching for more than 20 years in the USA.  
The school is in cambridge and it is called The Academy of Chinese
Martial Arts. 


Good luck,  Rob
--
---Rob Elkind --- 
   Marlboro, MA                  <=^\.  _ _      "Make Music
                                     \\,//        After Midnight"
                                      \_/
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: bear hug variation
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:50:50 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec22.163947.23771@cs.brown.edu> tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
>
>   Fred Lovret Sensei (from memory) : 
>   "Most schools teach you how to get out of a bad situation.  This is 
>    entirely wrong.  Instead, they should be teaching you how not to get 
>    in a bad situation in the first place."
>
>   I.e., as you've noted, instead of training to escape from a hold,
>   it is better to train to instinctively be able to deal with an attack
>   the instant it begins to manifest itself --

One of the things that some of my students have complained about is that
it's very difficult to apply many of the cool techniques they have
learned when they are sparring. A point I like to make is that,
if we are doing our jobs as teachers then it is bound to be difficult,
precisely because of what Lovret Sensei has said in the above quote.
When you have become enamored of some takedown, for example,
it may be very hard to appreciate the skill your opponent
shows in preventing you from getting an opportunity to exercise it.
Xref: sparky rec.martial-arts:16248 rec.arts.dance:993 rec.folk-dancing:2154
From: lanih@herald.Berkeley.EDU (J. Lani Herrmann)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.dance,rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Re: Dance Notation
Date: 28 Dec 1992 23:55:24 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: herald.berkeley.edu
Summary: Everything I know and maybe then some

Okay, here goes again:
	1. There is a notation known as "Labanotation" because a person
named Laban invented/started/pushed it.
	2. There is a small published literature on the topic. (Try your
friendly local university library, or roam the nets for other online
research catalogs, using "Labanotation" and "dance notation".)
	3. There was once a Dance Notation Bureau, I believe in
New York City, who was a source of manuals, literature, etc.  I haven't
the faintest idea if they are still there.
	4. Labanotation looks like geometrical art -- there is a time
component, and the various squiggles apparently record movement/placement
of hands, elbows, knees, ... (Poddon my ignorance; I never took the time
to understand it.)
	Since this has turned into a Posting, I pulled the books on
my shelves: Labanotation: The system of analyzing and recording movement,
by Ann Hutchinson. 3d ed., rev., 1977. New York: Theatre Arts Books (333 Sixth 
Ave., NYC 10014). on p. ii: "Other publications about Labanotation are
available from The Dance Notation Bureau, 19 Union Square West, New
York, NY 10003. The principal centers of Labanotation (Kinetography
Laban) are: Dance Notation Bureau [NYC]....
	Dance Notation Bureau Extension at Ohio State University
	Dance Notation Bureau Branches and Libraries in Philadelphia, London
and Israel
	Kinetographische Institut, 43 Essen-Werden, Folkwang Hochschule,
Germany
	Language of Dance Centre, 5 Lincoln's Inn Fields, London, W.C. 2
	Laban Centre for Movement & Dance at University of London, Gold-
smiths' College, New Cross, London SE.14 6NW ...."
The book has a preface by George Balanchine and a Foreword by Rudolf Laban.
**********************
The other book(s) I have is  A Dictionary of Kinetography Laban (Labanota-
tion) in 2 volumes, by Albrecht Kunst. Estover, Plymouth (Great Britain):
Macdonald and Evans, 1979. This seems to be an elaboration of the "basic"
notation, for the connoisseur of signification.
**********************
	From my position of blissful ignorance: it is very likely that
Labanotation may fulfil your need to record martial-arts moves. Good luck!
	-- Lani
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: More ki/qi/chi & science
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:03:38 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec22.225250.980@pages.com> kevin@pages.com (Kevin Sven Berg) writes:
>I wonder what it would take for the opposite to be true: could one 
>come to a mystical understanding of reality (in this case ki)
>through Mathematics. I suppose that one's even more weird than puting
>chi on a scale...

Pythagoras thought one could. He arrived at unique mystical insights
through mathematics, such as the conclusion that souls transmigrate
at death, and a moral injunction against ever eating beans.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn)
Subject: Re: Just Curious...
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 19:43:07 GMT

In article <BznCuD.I6I@eis.calstate.edu> jlockha@eis.calstate.edu (Jame A Lockhart) writes:
>
>Anyone know the date of the (reported) origins of Savate.  Not sure if it
>makes that 1700's cut.

Apparently the practice of foot-fighting arose among the rougher elements
of French society around 1800, for reasons that are unclear; around 1820,
someone whose name I disremember systematized this practice.  Later, other
elements were added, particularly from boxing.

So Savate isn't particularly old, though it's amusing to contemplate that
it provably predates any number of arts that sometimes make claims of
great antiquity.  Not mentioning any names...

-- 
Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...Ch'en worked in a drugstore on the
7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |second story...and at noon each day he
Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |would leave for lunch in an eccentric
55428                |                |way: he would stroll out the window..."
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: urbin@interlan.interlan.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: Re: Kenpo
Organization: Racal-Datacom
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:18:17 GMT

In article <12234@cayman.COM> mccoy@cayman.com (Michael McCoy) writes:
>In <BzDDE4.B1K@world.std.com>, eclipse@world.std.com (Mark Urbin) writes:
>>Kempo (or kenpo, it's an accent thing.  How you pronouce
>>depends on what part of Japan you are from) is the
>>Japanese translation of chau fa (sp!). Roughly in English,
>>it means `Fist Law'.  It's a generic term for a striking
>>based martial art.
>Hmmm... I was under the impression that Kempo and Kenpo were very 
>distinct styles. 
   Shotokan & Goju are very distinct styles, yet both are Karate-do.  There
are a lot of different Kem/npo styles out there.  

>I studied Kempo briefly while I was in college (I was on 
>vacation, and couldn't find a Shotokan school near my house) -- I 
>remember being distinctly underwhelmed by the Sanchin stances and 
>emphasis on circular blocks and movements (and lack of sparring). 
   Some Kem/npo styles have a heavy Chinese influnce.  Kara-ho Kenpo is a 
good example.  Some instructors perfer a strong background in basics, 
learned through *much* drilling, rather than reactions learned through 
basics.  This is an instructor thing as much as style (ryu) thing.

>A couple of years later, I started studying Kenpo in Newton, Mass. The 
>style there was very linear, with a lot of emphasis on straight punches 
>and blocks and more training in kicking. The instructor emphasized we were 
>studying keNpo, not keMpo -- white belts were required to spell it as part 
>of the first test. So.... are the two styles variations on a theme, or are 
>they really different styles? (Or is kenpo/kempo so generic that it covers 
>almost any style?)
   I'll venture a guess that your instructor wanted to make sure that he 
wasn't confused with an organization that is very popular in the Boston area 
that teaches keMpo.  I've seen keNpo & keMpo schools in the Boston area.  
Some teach very different styles and others just changed the name when they 
broke off from the parent organization.
  In closing, kempo/kenpo is pretty generic these days.



>
>================================================
>You are not here to verify,
>Instruct yourself or inform curiousity
>Or carry report. You are here to kneel
>Where prayer has been valid.
Mark Urbin  Racal-Datacom  Boxborough, MA   urbin@interlan.interlan.com   
These opinions are mine.  No one else will admit to them.	          
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot 
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: Thai kickboxing
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 13:30:31 GMT

In article <1ho0mdINN1aa@agate.berkeley.edu> robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
>In article <1992Dec27.035210.23364@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>Because muay Thai training is extremely rigorous (some might say brutal).
>Muay Thai fighters prevail because they are just plain tougher than anyone
>else.  Of course this means that very few muay Thai fighters have meaningful
>careers after age 25; their bodies are just worn out.

	On why to study Taiji: "The most important reason is that when you
finally reach the place where you understand what life is about, you'll have
some health to enjoy it." - Cheng Man Ch'ing

	Maybe these Thai boxers begin to clue in around age 25? :-)

>>3.  Does it operate on the poomseh/kata training principle, or is thai
>>kickboxing more like american judo, where there is less emphasis on the
>>traditional forms?
>
>Muay Thai training operates on the principle that you hit and kick lots of
>stuff and get generally beat up until your body learns to deal with the
>trauma.

	To be fair, you should say that Thai boxing seems to be like Western
Boxing, with constant repetition of basic strikes and combinations, and drills
for speed, timing and endurance. And sparring (of course).

--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: pals@ipact.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Pizza Hut Fight
Date: 29 Dec 92 12:25:20 CDT
Organization: IPACT, Valparaiso IN

In article <1gtb9kINN82e@agate.berkeley.edu>, 
robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu (Michael Robinson) writes:
> 
>   Redirections and throws (a la T'ai Chi, Aikido, Judo, etc.) are somewhat 
>   impractical if you are in a small apartment and wish to minimize 
>   "collateral damage".

This reminded me of a situation I found myself in about a month ago.
Eating at a local Pizza Hut with friend & two kids, me and my two kids
(son 8, daughter 2 in high chair).  Suddenly a fight erupts about 20
feet away.  I didn't see what precipitated it, but these two bozos are
going at it, and the place is crowded, lots of little kids, some in high
chairs (like mine).  Fortunately, things were brought under control
relatively quickly, cops arrived, etc.  But it did leave me pondering
a bunch of questions, like:

These guys were definitely a threat to other people around them.  A
200 pound man crashing into a 2 year old in a high chair would definitely
cause "collateral damage."  But how could one intervene in this situation
without potentially causing more "collateral damage?"  What techniques
might be best in such a crowded situation that minimize risk to bysitters?
Just protecting your own kids as best possible while getting away from
the fight makes the most sense, but some people who were close didn't
have that as a realistic option.

-- 
Randy Pals                |pals@ipact.com
IPACT, Inc.               |
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: body memory
Date: 22 Dec 92 13:40:11 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: DWOVAX


ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Ernst Krudl) writes...
> 

>In a book called Das Training der Sieger (The training of the winners),
>published here in Vienna it is said that many , all ? super athletes
>train visually to perfect their performance, always of course together
>with actual training and not exclusively. 
>Does this apply to martial arts too and what are your experiences and opinions ?

My impression so far is that most successful mental practice is multi-sensory,
and that when the term 'visualization' is being used, it is actually intending
rehearsal in all pertinent sensory modalities, not strictly the visual per se.

In Howard Gardner's work on human potential and education, he identifies
several distinct human potentials or faculties, distinct in terms of
being _neurologically_locallized_, found to an _extreme_ extent in certain
people and profoundly reduced in others, strongly affected by damage to 
specific areas of the brain, having distinct organizational processes
associated, capable of being expressed in a symbology, and having a unique
evolutionary and developmental explanation.   It's part of a more general 
naturalist/pragmatist/functionalist trend in biology and psychology
to see the mind and brain as composed of multiple well defined and
autonomous functional units.   Ties in well with cognitive science
and AI and such, also.

One of these faculties is the 'kinesthetic-body-sense', which would obviously
be one of the key faculties underlying your kata performance, possibly
in addition to a spatial intelligence, in this type of model.

Let me know if any aspect of this work interests you, and I can provide
recent references, if you like.  There are a number that are very
readable and written for a general audience.

>Ernst Krudl, Vienna, Austria (ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at)

						kind regards,

						todd
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com           |
| Digital Equipment Corporation		             (215) 354-1273           |
| Philadelphia, Pa. USA                                                       |
|  "I'm in a hurry, I don't know why.  All I really gotta do is live and die" |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: robin2@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Robin Collier)
Subject: Re: bear hug variation
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 03:52:20 GMT

>Bend forward at the waist.

If you are being held in a good bear hug you will find it very dfficult
to bend at the waist since you are being held above the waist and your
hips are against your attackers body.  You are only going to bend if you
can out muscle him.

>That's it. Really. Try it. It's interesting. Basically your upper body
>[snip]u
>
>
>Similar slow but certain technique... if someone has you in a full nelson
>(not as a hold that his buddies can take advantage of... it's just the
>two of you)... if you're not interested in really hurting whoever it is (yet?)
>and it's a non-threatening situation (like, it's your older brother doing this
>or something, or just some idiot trying to muscle you around) you can do a 'snail' 
>technique whereby you, basically, just slowly fold yourself down into a lump on 
>the floor, the parts that are touching the floor are your lower legs from your 
>knees down to your feet (can either have toes curled and bottom of foot on floor 
>or knees, shins, and top of feet touching floor), forearms, fists/hands should be 
>placed such that your forehead is resting on them (protection), and you are in a 
>curled/hunched/crouched/pick-a-word position.  Like a foetal position but not on 
>your side. Anyway, at this point, the Bad Guy can't break your neck (you're braced 
>against the planet) and you both... just...  wait... As soon as he shifts his weight 
>or hold to do something more interesting, you, of course, take advantage of it and
>do the same.
>
>
>-Lauren

Well, I know I have heard several ways of getting out of a full nelson, but I
was recenctly told by Nick Cerio at a seminar that if someone actually gets 
you in a full nelson, there is no way out of it.  He said that all effective
techniques basically can only be used as someone is trying to put this hold
on you, but once you are locked into this hold properly, you can't get out.
Anyway, this was his opinion and he is a 10th dan, so I think there is a lot 
validity in what he says.

Robin Collier
robin2@garfield.cs.mun.ca

>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Savate
From: jlockha@eis.calstate.edu (Jame A Lockhart)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 11:06:33 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

When the sword was outlawed in France and it became fashionable for the
well groomed gentleman to carry a cane, a new weapon was introduced to the
savateur.

I guess it was later that the elements of British boxing - via Boxing
Francaise - was later incorporated for hand techniques.
From: bleys@wisdom.bubble.org (Bill Cavanaugh)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Thai kickboxing
Date: 3 Jan 93 07:32:48 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises, Inc.

In article <MARY.93Jan2113815@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan02.062954.11574@wisdom.bubble.org> bleys@wisdom.bubble.org (Bill Cavanaugh) writes:
>  >
>  >That was his point.  That the the places and situations he felt he'd need
>  >to use the art were, by definition, inappropriate for it.
>
>The art?  Excuse me, the art?  The entire art has in it nothing appropriate
>for such situations?  
>
>Don't think so.  Read on.
>
[stuff deleted]
>
>Doing a wheel kick on a gravel parking lot when you've had a couple of 
>beers is exactly the same sort of thing.  You go and get yourself 
>stupid with alcohol to begin with, and then you use a completely 
>inappropriate technique for the situation.  Hmm, I wonder if there's
>a pattern here...

Of course there are techniques that will work in any situation.  It's been
my layman's experience that TKD concentrates on kicks to the upper body and
head, and that there are a lot of spinning and jumping techniques.  If I
was over-tired or slightly drunk I wouldn't want to depend on my balance
too much if I could avoid it, so I'd prefer punching or low kicks.
Actually, I'd rather have him grab me so I could throw him, then hold him 
down until either he calmed down or help arrived.

>
>  >Right.  Exactly.  TKD is a wrench.  Bob needs a hammer.  He could learn,
>  >with practice, to drive nails with the wrench, but it wouldn't make any
>  >sense to do that when there are perfectly good hammers available.
>
>Your argument does not follow from mine.  I was talking about techniques; 
>you are talking about an entire art.  It is most certainly not the case 
>that "TKD is a wrench."  TKD is a toolbox, and you picked up the wrench
>when you should have chosen the hammer.

Okay, I'll give you that.  Taking the analogy farther, I'd say that there
are hammers that are better for some jobs than others.  This seems to be a
situation where form is a drawback...

bill
hey, what happened to that Bob guy who started this? <grin>
-- 
 *         Bill Cavanaugh       bleys@wisdom.bubble.org          *
XY + XX = :-)
From: silatman@hls.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Serrada's Kimble Joyce in SF
Date: 30 Dec 92 19:09:20 GMT



        
             Serrada Eskrima instruction by Kimble Joyce:

     Kimble Joyce, one of the most exceptional masters of
Filipino Escrima, specialising in the Serrada style of
the late master Angel Cabales, has moved to the San Francisco
bay area from Los Angeles, and is available for instruction.
     Along with Jimmy Tacosa, Kimble is ranked as a top
master in this art, and was featured in a few magazines
as well as a couple of films.
     You may contact me for more information.