HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: Daily Post
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:10:52 GMT

In article <krikket.07f5@meltdown.chi.il.us> krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>EVERYONE who I've dated since then has fallen into one of the following
>catagories (Unknown to me at the start of the relationship):
>Child Abuse Victim, Rape Victim, Emotional Abuse Victim by parents, just
>divorced (still emotionally unstable), pregnant, just had a child, multiple
>personallity, (And now:) committed to someone else, or married...
>
>Why do I detect a pattern here?  8^)  <-- Me.
>
>Anyone have any ideas how I might try to BREAK THE DAMNABLE CYCLE???
>
This is hypothetical, but try paying attention to how it feels to be
attracted to a woman, and how it feels not to be attracted to one
who seems to be (superficially) as interesting. This might be a clue to
how you're choosing women who are under high stress or otherwise not
available, and avoiding those who aren't. 

Also, the ugly question crosses my mind of "How many women aren't in
at least one of those categories?"

                               ---Nancy Lebovitz


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anonymus+845@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Subject: waiting
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:20:48 GMT

today I am in a panic- seems to be happening
more and more- but they don't last as long
or as intense as they used to be.

I am trying to deal with old memories of
abuses and become a functional person again.
I get impatient waiting for this and then
I start to panic that maybe I will never
be functional again.  Maybe my opening those
door that I had shut so firmly ages ago, will
change me forever-  now I am so vurnerable and
scared-now I hate being alone.  

I know that closing my eyes to the abuses didn't
change things and I was only pretending that they
never happened, but looking at them scares me now.

Has anyone else felt this way?  Does the dealing with
the situation ever get easier?   

I could use some hugs and conversation, if anyone
has the time.
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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cbaljs@med.unc.edu (Linda Stevenson)
Subject: when do we recover
Fro:  anonymus+845@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Keywords: 
 I'm not sure if I'm read to post here or 
 not-  I have to make sure that no one will
 know who I am - because after all these 
 years (39) I still feel like I have done
 something wrong and I am still messing up
 my life because of it
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:29:57 GMT

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: blaze@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Suki)
Subject: Re: Sleep vs. Dreams
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 04:08:20 GMT

In article <Bv9q9D.L2E@twwells.com> anon-1002@twwells.com (scared) writes:
>Help. 
>Been having some trouble sleeping.....well actually going to sleep. Maybe
>going to bed is better said. I have been going through some rough times lately
>and find myself feeling very depressed. I won't go to bed until I can't stay
>awake any longer or I have to go to work and then I can't go to bed. I know
>this isn't any good for my nerves, but it's almost like I'm punishing myself,
>like I don't deserve to go to sleep. Stupid, huh? Anyway, I finally went to
>sleep today (I'm working a stint on nights so I sleep days) about 4:30 and had
>a dream in which I was molested by a friend's mother. I've never even met this
>friend's mother! This is a really good friend who knows that I'm in healing.
>
>Anyway, so much for an hour of sleep.
>Anyone else having dream problems? Sleep problems? I'm like a little kid who 
>just WON'T go to bed once I get to a certain point. After today's dream though,
>I really don't want to.

	
*hug*  Yup, you're not the only one out there....I have been having
the same problems coupled with a feeling of pressure/impending doom
right before I go to sleep at night.  Don't know if this will help or
not, but I generally try hot choclate and a comic book (Cathy, or
something like that) when I can't sleep.  Of course, the best cure
is trying to read my homework.  :)

Seriously....it's hard to want to sleep when you have such awful nightmares...
but I generally find that for me, staying up at night alone, makes me
more upset (lonely) than trying to sleep.  

If all else fails....  A friend just recommended to me a homeopathic
medicine (I don't like taking sleeping pills) that he swears is excellent.
It's called Chamomilla (30X) and it is for sleeplessness and irritability.
You should be able to find it in any local health store.  Good luck

		-Suki

-- 
	>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Suki<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
		    blaze@westmark.stanford.edu  or
		 anonymus+284@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu.
From: rbn@sunvis.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: I think it's progress
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:51:48 GMT
Organization: UNISYS/Environmental Protection Agency

I second the suggestion that the reason for being careful about who I
tell about my trauma issues is that some people are not trustworthy.
I am continuing to learn about this aspect of recovery.  It is not 
always taking care of myself to tell people about some of my inner stuff.

There are people who will abuse this sort of information.  I am gradually
learning more and more about when and where to try people out.  There are
some situations where I just don't do it because of the general lack of
safety.  I do not have to open myself up and be vulnerable with every
person I interact with.  It is important to me to be vulnerable with
as many as possible and I surprise myself sometimes with who I choose to
let in on pieces of my story.  

I like the "share-check-share" idea -- I share some(a little bit) and then
take some time(maybe a long time) to check out how the other person responds
or uses the information I've given them.  If it checks out ok, then I try
some more ... if it doesn't check out ok, then I limit the topics to less
intimate ones.  

Congratulations on your progress in struggling with boundaries!

--
----

Bob Boyd
In The Here & Now
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: New News
Date: 3 Oct 92 21:45:18 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

Hello...  After looking at my Email that I actually received, I'm going to
follow up on the request that I post daily again...

Regarding the gun:  It is now locked up and beyond my reach at work, along with
all ammo for the rifles.  This in and of itself makes it a LOT easier on me to
continue life.  (I've always pictured myself ending it with a handgun...)

Regarding Email:  There is a bit of a problem with the NetMail from this end
temporairily.  (It's bring fixed as we speak.)  I lost about 35 batches of
news, which probably contained quite a bit of ASAR stuff. Plus right now there
is a bad job making the feeding system hang, so I can't get new news for the
moment.  (It will be in full working order tonight.)

In short, if someone has sent me Email or posted here to me, and I haven't
responded...  I probably didn't get it.

Regarding life in general...

Today I got the honors of walking into the local police station and get the
honors (?) of attempting to convince them NOT to arrest me.  (I slept through a
court appearence for tha auto-accident I was in, and I'm walking on an I-Bond
right now.)

That and I managed to sleep through a trip I was supposed to do...  Take a
friend and her dog to te vet.  Now she's pissed at me...  Agrh...

Imipramine does do some good work, but it knocks my out cold...

+--------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
|Krikket              | krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us | USnail: 3 Danada Sq. E. !
|a.k.a Doug Krick     |NOTICE: Your Milage May Vary|   Suite 246             !
|Data # 708/665-9732  | #include<std.disclaimers>  |   Wheaton, Il 60187     !
+--------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
|                What God wants, God gets, God help us all!                  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: anon-1242@twwells.com (stranger)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Anonymous contribution
Date: 7 Oct 92 02:39:37 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com

>From an article on Holocaust Survivors in today's New York Times (Oct. 6, 
Section C, page 4):
   "Four of five survivors married other survivors, unions which many 
researchers believe were beneficial to the couples' mental health.  Though many 
survivors are in general tightlipped about what happened to them, several 
studies have found that *being able to talk over wartime experiences with 
others who understood them* was strongly related to a better adjustment.  'In 
interview after interview, *survivors said how they appreciated that their 
spouses could understand their sense of loss and their anxieties*,' 
   Dr..., a psychologist at Florida State University and editor of 
The Journal of Traumatic Stress, said, 'When you look across the landscape of 
trauma, from the Holocaust through Hurricane Andrew and on down (sic), *talking
it over helps you see that your reactions, no matter how extreme at the moment, 
were normal or understandable given what happened*.'"

*emphasis added



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: blaze@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Suki)
Subject: Re: mpd
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 00:08:43 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.194930.1027@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:

>: >Uh, "cult abuse"?  I wasn't aware that this was at all the case - the stats
>: >I've seen say that "cult abuse" and such are very rare, except in the minds
>: >of those who either have an axe to grind or have something to gain from running
>: >around screaming "The Satanists are everywhere!"

>Re-read what I posted.  Did I say that any survivors were making anything up?
>Nope.  Did I *imply* that survivors were making anything up?  Nope.  There

	There is an implied disbelief that I think everyone responded to
in the way you stated the above sentsense starting with "except in the minds".
I know that is what bothered me.  And in all reality, I don't think I 
flamed you.  If I were going to flame you I would have called you a
stupid jerk.  I didn't becuase I don't know you...so I certainly am not
in a position to say that.

	What I said was that you pushed my one of my buttons.  I yelled
a statement.  I did not yell at you.  I am sorry if you took it that 
way, perhaps I touched on one of your issues.  

	As for the person who said they were leaving the group because
they felt like there were too many flames and specifically mentioned
my name...well, I'm sorry that you do not feel like this is a safe 
enough place for you to vent, but please do not blame the rest of us
for it.  Actually, this is one of the lowest volume flame groups on
the net, and in comparison to most, there are almost no flames.

	In creating a safe space for people to share we have to be as
sensative to the people to those who feel silenced by others _inadvertantly_
saying things that may hurt, as we are to the ones who vocalize their 
objection to flames.  When I responed to Ed's post I was thinking 
about them....

		-Suki

PS.  I did go to bed worrying that perhaps what I said had been said
	a little too strongly.  Not that I wouldn't have said it, nor
	that I don't believe it...but I could have been a little 
	more gentle.  Like I said...it hit one of my issues...

-- 
	>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Suki<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
		    blaze@westmark.stanford.edu  or
		 anonymus+284@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu.
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: Re: A theory
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 23:03:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep24.212105.1@bcvms.bc.edu> abbruzzs@bcvms.bc.edu writes:
>I was just wondering has anyone ever heard this theory about *possible*
>sexual abuse...  That possibly I just witnessed an older brother or
>parent having physical relations and that I believed it to be me
>out of confusion and simply being young.  I was recently told this
>by a psychiatrist I have been seeing for the past year and a half.
>
>It really scares me because I think he is clueless.  After several attempts
>with hospitalizations and continued self destructive bahavior I can't 
>imagine I witnessed someone else and just got confused.
>

I think you're right, sounds like he's clueless.  How much do you have
invested in continuing therapy with this guy?  Have you asked him how
much training and experience he has working with sexual abuse survivors?
Ask if he's ever read _The Courage to Heal_.  There are many counselors
who practically specialize in helping sexual abuse survivors.  Anyone up
on current treatment methods would know that doubting a survivors memories
is strongly not recommended.

What you do is up to you though.  Unlike many here, I wouldn't assume that
you should immediately stop seeing someone after a year and a half.  Almost
all therapists say the wrong thing once if you see them for long enough.  I
would confront him about why he said that, or at least I'd think about doing
so.  Ask him where he got the idea that people ever remember things in
this way, perhaps.  My father once said something like, "Well, you know, some
times I have dreams that are so realistic that when I wake up, I almost think
they actually happened."  It was a stupid and hurtful thing to say, but
I told him so and we worked through it somewhat.

I hope that you continue to trust yourself whatever you choose to do.  Many
of us on asar will have very strong feelings about what your therapist
said because we've all been so hurt by being doubted.  It made me very
sad and angry to read this post, but I don't know the full story.

Sending ehugs and warm thoughts your way if you want either,

Sherri


>Thanks.
>Sarah
>
>
>ANON-Mail :yes
>ANON-Ping:yes
>ANON-Announce:yes
>


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: 1st Post
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:44:40 GMT

In article <92272.072604SCG107@psuvm.psu.edu> SCG107@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep27.213025.15295@wam.umd.edu>, sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri) says:
>>
>>In article <Bv1MDL.F6F@twwells.com> anon-1247@twwells.com writes:

[stuff deleted]

>>        One thing I have done in therapy is to claim the right to blame
>>the wrong person, to lie as much as I want to, to blame people I may have
>>never even met.  Especially with really young memories, I need to feel like
>>it's okay to talk about things I'm unsure of.  In my healing, I don't need
>>to be factually right about everything, but I need to feel free to talk
>>about how I was hurt and feel free to say what I need to say.
>
>Really?!? I've been fighting with a possible memory, and I don't really
>know what happened, if anything, and who was involved. I've been extremely
>reluctant to talk about it, partly because I'm afraid of not being truthful
>or factual, naming a wrong person, or completely making something up. So I
>feel even guiltier if I start to try to talk about it, and end up not saying
>anything at all. (I had a phone "conversation" last week with a friend who
>asked me what was going on with me. I ended up just not saying anything for
>what felt like forever... at least she understood and didn't get mad at me.
>Even though I got mad, or at least frustrated, at myself.)
>
Could you talk about it by being meticulous about it being an incomplete
memory and being clear about how much of it is memory and how much is
intuition or deduction?  Also, I'd recommend talking about any guesses
about who the perpetuator might be with someone who is discreet and
won't pass on anything you're not sure of. 

                                ----Nancy Lebovitz

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cloister@stein.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: Re: great sadness
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 20:17:10 GMT

In alt.sexual.abuse.recovery poohbear writes:

>why is everyone hating each other all of a sudden?
>there is no need to run away.  why don't you who need to just 
>take a break and not read for a while?  it is very very very
>sad for me to read that people will leave forever and have
>unsubscribed and think this group is hurtful.
>for some reason it made me cry.  that is very unusual.  I  
>usually can't cry.  it took me by surprise.  i realized how
>shocked i was that people were so upset, then i got sad
>about it, and the next thing i knew i was crying.

i don't think everyone is hating eachother all of a sudden.  i think people
are disagreeing, but that's not the same as hating eachother.  i find it sad,
too, when people disagree so strongly that they feel they have to leave asar.
a lot of times i wish that people could just "agree to disagree".  i think that
probably 75% of the time that two people disagree, there is no chance even
going into it that one of them will be converted to the other's point of view
and so end the disagreement.  so on that basis, people should be more willing
to accept that there will be disagreements, and just not let themselves be so
bothered by them.  one of my personal rules is (especially during flame wars)
"don't post something unless it's going to *help* the situation.  if you're not
going to be helpful, keep quiet or take it to e-mail."  i feel that e-mail is a
vastly under-utilized resource.  :)

>i guess part of me feels like we are gettin gpunished for speaking
>out.  we as in asar people, not lots of me's.  i do not know what
>to tell you except that i know no one here is truly destructive and
>is trying to hurt others.  

wow.  i think that's a really good observation.

>i think it is ok to post flammable material.  i think it is ok for
>others to ignite it.  isn't it understood that we all care about
>each other, or at least about the process of getting better?

>i'm sorry if this sounds super granola-fruity "let's all love
>each other."  i just think maybe we should get less caught
>up in being permanently upset with each other or with asar on 
>the whole.

hey, i don't care if sounds all super granola-fruity.  there's nothing wrong
with that.  i think you're right, personally.

>it makes me very sad.  i do see beauty here, as i said.
>i hope some others can.
>poohbear

-- 
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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anonymus+322@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu (poohbear)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: to krikket only, sorry
Date: 5 Oct 92 05:01:10 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service


how to talk to you?  do you have any anons?
oh krikket please stay safe  good luck from poohbear
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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bob@reed.edu (Robert Ankeney)
Subject: Re: for those considering Final
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:34:13 GMT

In article <9209300713.AA10367@saturn.upl.com> anonasar@khijol.UUCP writes:
>X-ANON-Version: 0.5
>
>I am that little piece of you that is detached from you, sitting here
>listening to you blather on about how you'd like to end it all.  I'm here to
>put a bug in your ear: Why do that?  That's no fun!  You have total
>control over your environment - you just don't remember that.  You can make

     Sorry, you're wrong.  Control is an illusion.  Anyone who wants control
over their environment is deluding themselves that it is possible.  Control
is a trap where people get stuck struggling with trying to control.

>things easy for yourself, or hard.  You've set up the game so that things
>are hard for you, just so you can have the challenge of turning "bad" into
>"good".  It's no challenge to check out in the middle, is there?  If you
>realize that you ARE playing a game, and that YOU control the rules of
>the game, and that YOU can change the game so that YOU win whatever it
>is that you want to win, things will immediately get easier for you.

     Life is a game?  I control the rules?  Sorry, that doesn't cut it
either.  Sure I can adjust my outlook.  But one useful thing Freud
contributed is the fact that "certain behaviors are the result of
unconscious factors".  What you are trying to say is all behaviour is
conscious.  Bad assumption.  One of the most important roles of therapy
is to uncover the unconscious factors that affect behaviour.

[ Remainder deleted ]

     Robert

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Ankeney                 | "Yield and overcome.                |
...!tektronix!reed!bob         |  Bend and be straight.              |
...!tektronix!bob@reed.EDU     |  Empty and be full."    - Lao Tzu   |
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery