HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zenith89@bwdlh130.bnr.ca (Chris VanFleet)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Reply-To: zenith89@bwdlh130.bnr.ca ()
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd., Ottawa, CANADA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:26:01 GMT

In article <6c7m0hl.garys@netcom.com> garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman) writes:
>Crop circles are created by alien spaceships...Not little old men carrying
>big sticks...Anyone who believes anything else is a nitwit and a fool...
>Linda Moulton Howe ran the designs through the computer of the guy who
>figured out Stonehenge, and they discovered mathematical equations, some
>of which we don't have...But I suppose those two dweebs know higher math,
>right??  SURE!!!
>
>	Gary Stollman
How clever does one have to be to create a circle? Does it
require as much intelligence as say pointing a gun at a 
news anchor? Ha ha ha ha ha....... 

BTW, for those not in the know... it's alleged that this is the
same "Gary Stollman" who held David Horowitz hostage some time
back.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:09:39 GMT



In article <63914@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
|>Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!olivea!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston

|>Now let me give you another fact. The Earth's resonate frequency is 8.3
|>cycles per second (which varies a little due to certain factors).  I wear
|>a watch that has a transmitter in it that puts out a wave of energy at
|>about the same frequency as the Earth resonant frequency. This shields
|>me from ELF (extremely low frequency) radiation.  John Winston.
|>


Dear John (one who is not operating on all cylinders)

You should where Aluminum froil in you underware also.  this will protect you
from the Grays Microwave transmissions which they are using to cook us all for
dinner.

Steve Food_for_the_Grays_and_who_is_about_medium_rare_right_now


--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:29:06 GMT

In <3293@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes:

>Now one of my contentions is that people on the net are trying to 
>debunk the phenomena by debunking the USENET messages.  Let's try
>a different tack.

>According to _Circular Evidence_ by Pat Delgado & Colin Andrews,
>Phanes Press 1989 (yep, pre hoaxters) crop circles have been around
>since the 1950's in Australia.  The hoaxters used a technique known
>to break the stalks as the stalks don't bend.  Yet the stalks are
>quite bent, permanently so.  They continue to grow that way.  They
>don't straighten, and they lie in regular patterns.  There are
>a variety of patterns, and (that's the patterns in the cereal, NOT
>the shape of the circle...) a variety of theories are examined.

>If you care to examine the book, and read it, you'll have a lot
>more information.  If you base your knowledge on what you read on
>the net, or in newspapers (or on just one book...) then you're
>biased.  

>If you read the book, drop me a note and we'll pick this discussion up
>where we left off...


Just a minute - don't be =too= hard on him, Rick.

Colin Andrews is hardly the ultimate authority on crop circles.  He was
caught along with all the other cerealogists by ploclaiming hoax
circles genuine.  The trouble is that if you read only books about crop
circles written by cerealogists with a particular theory or viewpoint,
you'll get biased information or miss out on other information.

The trouble is that in order to understand crop circle phenomena, you
have to look at them from the perspective that they are special cases
of the broader category of UGMs (unusual ground markings), including
"burn marks", "tripod marks", holes, "saucer nests", etc.  Ted
Phillips' excellent Catalogue of Physical Traces contains references to
numerous UGMs INCLUDING crop circles, from hundreds of years ago, and
around the world.

What is unusual is that the popular version of crop circles that people
are familiar with and grace the nice, glossy coffee table books is so
predominant in southern England.  Serious researchers thought most
circles and formations were hoaxes long before the Bower/Chorley hoax
admissions, and long before Andrews and Meaden got burned.

I agree with the lamentations that there is very litle accurate
information on the subject being published, but that's because that's
not what people want to hear or read.  Glossy pictures of "mysteries"
are much more interesting than statistical analyses or quantifiable
data about crop circles and other UGMs.

Furthermore, there is good information available in the NET, but you
have to look for it.  Sure, there's junk posted, too, but that's part
of the phenomenon.  You have to use good judgement to sort out the
wheat from the chaff (pun in context intended).
  
-- 
Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: morale@vccsouth19.its.rpi.edu (Enrique Morales)
Subject: Re: Moon Activities?y
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 02:24:48 GMT

Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer) writes:

>> Stefan Gustavson writes:
>> 
>> Msg-ID: <stefang.713121943@isy.liu.se>
>> Posted: 6 Aug 92 17:25:43 GMT
>> 
>> Org.  : Dept of EE, University of Linkoping
>> 
>> Steve_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve MacDonald) writes:
>> 
>> >Just to let people know there was an incident in the 11th century where
>> several
>> >monks in England saw a large explosion on the moon. It scared the crap out
>> of
>> >them and they thought the world was going to end. It could be very possible
>> >that they witnessed a large alien ship crashing on the moon or more likely
>> just
>> >regular alien lunar activity.
>> 
>> >        no guns
>> >                Steve Macdonald
>> 
>> Or, even more likely, a meteorite crash on the moon.
>> Sorry to point out the obvious. Didn't mean to spoil your fun.
>> 
>>        /Stefan G (stefang@isy.liu.se)
>> 


>And to spoil their fun further, analysis of the moon crater Tycho's strata
>(lines of ejected lunar material) shows its estimated impact date to coincide
>with the monk's sighting.  This was described in _Cosmos_, which BTW also
>contains a pretty good argument about the lack of good proof of actual alien
>visitations.  You'd think just ONE of these zillions of "crashed spaceships"
>might have produced one, ONE, just ONE inexplicable artifact or fragment.  So
>far, nada.
Has  A COVERUP BY GOV'T EVER OCCURED TO YOU?????????

I don't mean to be rude, but the gov't has been known to clear up all signs of anything they don't want known. So lack of evidence is not a totally sound argument because the possibility of cover-up is still there.


>But seeing that meteor impact must have been quite a sight.  It's a shame that
>people are so anxious to invent their own ideas about space when the real thing
>contains more fascinating events than most of us care to contemplate.  Is it
>just a coincidence that aliens always choose to abduct stupid people?

>--
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Just when you thought|         ==> Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca <==
>it was safe...       | That's SUNNY Vancouver, British Columbia, *CANADA*!!
>---------------------+------------------------------------------------------
>He's BACK! The Car,  | George: Blackadder!  What time is it!?
>The Cat, The Lunatic,| Edmund: Thre
From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:43:59 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <63861@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes...
>earth around the stakes that cosmic dust and other things are settleing
>on the earth at a rate of one foot every thousand years.-----JW

For a total depth of 800 miles of dust since the Earth formed! Where is all
this dust?

-Tom R.   randolph@est.enet.dec.com
From: Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 23 Aug 92 07:49:47 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> 
> Msg-ID: <64472@cup.portal.com>
> Posted: 23 Aug 92 00:53:35 GMT
> 
> Org.  : The Portal System (TM)
> 
> Dear People: Well it looks like Lenard, Bear, Jeramy and RA have been
> trying to eat me up as usual. The magazine referred to is the tabloid
> Magazine called Sun.
> John Winston.
> ok


Do whatever you want, the famous man said, as long as you spell my name right.
In this case you didn't.

Another thing you might consider avoiding is leaving messages that merely say
"I have nothing to say."  Most of us already know that.


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just when you thought|         ==> Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca <==
it was safe...       | That's SUNNY Vancouver, British Columbia, *CANADA*!!
---------------------+------------------------------------------------------
He's BACK! The Car,  | George: Blackadder!  What time is it!?
The Cat, The Lunatic,| Edmund: Thre
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:5632 sci.skeptic:14252 alt.paranormal:2105
From: cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: physical evidence
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:29:02 GMT
Organization: Glassboro State College, Glassboro, NJ

In article <dhalliwe.713655207@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell) writes:

>chapman@ims.com (Dave Chapman) writes:

>> For instance a
>>lap top computer given to an abductee in 1955 would have been very 
>>credible physical evidence. Now of course you will have to come up
>>with something fancier than a lap top computer. 
>  
>    There we have it! The proof! We now actually *have* laptop computers,
>so aliens *must* have left them behind in 1955!


it would appear that the evidence is incontrovertable.
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Korresponding with Klass
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:53:27 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <l98ohcINN7it@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM 
writes:
>The following is a letter I received from Philip Klass, and my reply to it:
[much deleted]
>And since you do seem to know who he is, I will decline your wager. You
>may know him well enough to know that he won't come forward, although
>perhaps it is because he was in bed at his mistress' apartment in that
>building rather than at home. But thanks for confirming that he exists,
>and thus lending credence to the events he may have either witnessed or
>just missed witnessing.

Can you say 'grasping at straws'?  'Lending credence' indeed.

	RA
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau)
Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 23:13:34 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

I have a hard time believing this thread turned into a Cattle Mutilation discus
sion, but Oh Well...

I have read about plenty of ranchers who have lost cattle, met aliens, etc. Theyfirst start wondering what in the hell is going on. Then they call the Sheriff,
and in a number of the cases, the cops tell the people flat out: `ITs the work
of extraterrestrails, and that's all the FBI will tell us".

After that, some of the ranchers have spotted UFO's,and even been abducted or 
contacted. The literature is out there; I'm not writing a research paper,
but it's out there, and anyone with a sincere interest in the subject such
as myself has no problem finding it. 

Of course, many of our less esteamed freinds who don't read books on such
"far out' subjects are predisposed to other viewpoints, but I'll ask you
this:

If it was the work of the US government, why wouldn't they raise the cattel
themselves? Much cheaper than flying multimillion dollar helicopters
around, which is the ONLY possible "other" explaination for all of this.
Actually, when you read Alien Harvest, there is really little question
as to what this phenomena is caused by. And the real question is what
the greys are doing with the material they collect. 

The answer that that question is beyond the comprehension of most of
the people here, so I'll save my findings (which are pretty deep)
for another post.

Jeff-

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...)
Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work?
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 00:36:00 GMT
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <l8h448INNhvg@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM writes...
>More interesting than wondering whether contributors to this group are part of
>a government or ET disinformation campaign is to speculate on what the possible
>motives for such a campaign might be. Persons inclined to be suspicious of the
>good intentions of government people might attribute such a campaign to:
> 
>1) Expectation on the part of the power elite that disclosure of alien visitation
>will jeopardize their positions, so that they need to cover it up to protect
>their interests; or
> 
>2) Expectation on the part of a fascist cabal that if they are allowed to work
>in secret, they can obtain alien technology that they can use to gain world
>power.
> 
>However, those who are more inclined to think government types are mostly nice
>guys most of the time might think the motives are:
> 
>3) Concern that premature disclosure would upset and demoralize people and
>destabilize society, disturb economic and technical progress, and generally
>make things worse for everybody; or
> 
>4) Concern that we are an alien experiment and that if we find out we are and
>begin behaving differently as a result of that knowledge, we will lose our
>value as scientific subjects and be terminated.
> 
>Better ignorant and alive than enlightened and dead? Could explain a few things.
>It least it could be the cover story used to motivate government agents.
> 
>It is also interesting to ask why government or ET agents bother trying to
>perpetrate a coverup that is important enough to kill for while at the same
>time trying to avoid using lethal methods. What is holding them back? Could it
>be that no one knows who all the players are in this game, or what the rules
>are, or who is really making the rules?
> 
>The next time you encounter someone you suspect of being a disinformation
>agent, you might ask him if he *really* knows who he is working for, or what
>his mission *really* is. Whether human or ET, he can't be entirely sure of
>anything, and in that we may have some common ground.
> 
>---
> 
>jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net
>Jon Roland
>Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
>Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
> 
To paraphrase a quotation from a sci-fi story of years ago:

"Who watches the watchers while the watchers are watching you?"

======================================================================
   We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty...  Twain
                    Internet:    jim@apsicc.aps.edu
       Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager 
======================================================================
From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:14:15 GMT
Organization: Boeing

In article <1992Aug15.094751.1942@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:
>
Rick Pavek (me) said:
>>I say "Prove it".
>
Then Keith said:
>You can't "prove" that.  You can prove that an individual circle was created
>by humans, but you can't with one sweep prove that every circle was create
>by humans.  You are looking for a proof that does not exist.
>
>keith

YES, YES, YES.  You've GOT IT!!!  BY GOLLY, YOU'VE GOT IT!!  THAT'S THE
POINT!!  GIVE THAT MAN A CEEGAR!!  THA WINNA!!

BINGO!

Thanks Keith, we agree with each other.

My point exactly.  And the corollary: You can't with one sweep 
(and one example) prove that because one was created by man, they ALL
were created by man.

Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou

Rick

-- 
Rick Pavek                       | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com       |           
AppleLink:  kuryakin             | It wastes your time           
r.pavek1@GENIE                   |          and annoys the droid.
From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:50:26 GMT
Organization: Boeing

In article <mw7mh3.payner@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>What would you consider as proof?
Lots of things.  What I'm objecting to is these usenet posts that bandy
opinions about.  What I'm trying to do is get him to realize we're both
arguing a point without evidence.  To do that is to argue forever.
And it was a rhetorical question, anyway.

>Would the results of the crop-circle contest be considered as proof?
>Why or why not?
Of course it would.  Provided it was documented properly.  You missed
the point of the statement.  Completely.  And I still haven't seen
the "proof", nor has anyone offered to show it to me.  Pretend I'm
from Missouri...  
>
>And lastly, why do you demand extraordinary evidence for simple things?
>And do you do this for everything, or just crop circles?
I don't consider asking for something other than heresay to be extraordinary.
I ask for second opinions from doctors.  I take everything a car salesman
tells me with a salt lick.  And if anyone thinks I believe what a politician
says to my face is true without qualifications, 
then they are SERIOUSLY DERANGED.

Some things I accept.  Like the TV schedule (which can be wrong) and
my paycheck (  8-).

If you don't demand proof of this phenomena, then you're biased.
If you accept that man created all of these crop circles, then
you've made a conclusion without any basis of fact.  Yes, I will assume
that some human or humans created at least some of them.  Even if you
don't prove it.  I won't say that humans created ALL of them.  And you
can't prove they did.  They say you can't prove a negative.  You can't
prove an absolute, either, in this case.  To say absolutely, that humans
created them all as hoaxes, is ludicrous.  You have no proof.  (Sure,
you MIGHT be right!!  But, you can't prove yourself right, and therefore
can't rightfully shut the door on other explanations  8-)

All I contend is that there may be unusual explanations for these events.


-- 
Rick Pavek                       | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com       |           
AppleLink:  kuryakin             | It wastes your time           
r.pavek1@GENIE                   |          and annoys the droid.  
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown)
Subject: Re: K-2 Radio Transmission
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:38:56 GMT

In article <wb9omc.713659112@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu> wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes:
>usenet@ttinews.tti.com (Usenet Admin) writes:
>
>	Anyone who has a shortwave radio and a tape recorder can record
>noises that sound like the description presented here.  By and large,
>pretty much anything you hear is either some naturally occurring
>phenomenon or is cuased by FAX transmissions, high speed computer
>controlled morse code, digital transmissions, encrypted audio, etc.
>
>Pray tell, just what makes them so sure tha anything they have
>heard is alien, i.e., what proof of this do they offer?
>
>Duane

True, true, all true. However, the K-2 stuff says they used RDF to find
the source and found in was being produced by a secret alien base. Personally
I think it was produced with a very expensive sythesizer. Want a copy? I 
can't find any copyright infor on the tape or memo they sent me so I 
think I can legally send you a copy. Hmmmm...Maybe I should check with
the Greys first. :> Contact me via e-mail if you want to hear it. 

Gregg.

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: Message from Death Star
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 18:57:11 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <ahn.713639999@ac> ahn@ac.wfunet.wfu.edu (Darth Vader) writes:
>yo man.
>this is a test
>please ignore.
>-dv
Hey man, don't tell me where to direct my attention and where not to! :-)

So Darth, dude, have you turned back to the dark side?  Have you come
back from the afterlife to build Death Star III?  Are yo going to destroy 
the planets of Zeta Reticuli (please do!), or is it Earth herself
your after this time?  I feel compelled to warn you that the Pleidians
will stick up for us, man.

BTW, hi.

Ithlial

To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 21:05:34 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

     Subject: Alien Races.
             While reading the book called "UFO, From Venus I Came by
     Omnec Once some statements were made about different
     civilizations, races here on Earth and where these races
     came from.
             Here's a quote from her book, "I must advice you not
     all UFOs that are seen  by people on earth are from our
     Brotherhood of Planets, or even from our solar system.  Some 
     are actually astral lights and interdimensional entities,
     and some are unknown to us.  Some come from great distances.
     The whole picture is very complex, but there have been a 
     great number of landings and contacts by our people."
             A black race evolved in the Jupiter system.  These are
     the tall, royal looking people, with broad faces and square
     jaws.  Their hair is deep glistening black and their eyes
     are purple to violet.  The Jupiterians are also known for
     their beautiful voices and open sharing nature of being.
     Descendants are in Africa and other parts of the world.
     (I've also found that a race of black people know a lot
     about Sirius the dog star and speak of a double star that
     rotates in a cycle of about 50 years.)
             You might wonder how Omnec's life was here on Earth
     after she came from Venus to live here. She didn't tell 
     anyone that she was from Venus until she grew up.  In the 
     Earth families  that raised her, her stepfathers were dire
     punishment she had to learn to endure.  One raped her when
     she was fourteen and the second at sixteen, while holding a 
     loaded gun to her head.  She didn't feel too bold or heroic
     in trying to resist because he had already shot her in the 
     arm and she didn't feel it was time to die.
             Omnec was also brought up in a very strict atmosphere
     of a church where one of the young men rose to prominence,
     Elvis Presley.
             I'll leave you with this saying;  You can go through
     more trials and tribulations on this Earth in one lifetime
     than you can on a utopian type planet in 1,000 years.
      
        That's all for now, John F. Winston.