HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:01:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: appserv.9211061814.AA04561
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.

In article <RTARAZ.92Nov5125515@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
#
#After going to an indoor range for many times, I would like to take my
#Taurus 92 out side for a while.  I like to know what are some fun
#things to shoot at. (i.e.  A television tube should be alot of fun)

Sure sounds like fun.

On the other hand, are you planning on cleaning up the glass after
you're done?

We shooters need to remember that what we leave behind is going to
be seen by non-shooters, and we have enough trouble with the media
without leaving others with the idea that we're a bunch of slobs.
(The BLM has been closing down areas to shooters because of this
very problem.)

That aside, plastic milk jugs filled with water are pretty nifty.

Various slightly-aged fruit, such as pumpkins and melons might also
be fun, but there is the issue of cleanup to consider.  (maybe some
local cows would enjoy the opportunity of cleaning up after the
pumpkin shoot?)

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give	 |  Meteor counting is |
| them all away and have none left for yourself. |  is not a crime...  |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Small autos for carry (was Re: I picked PPK/S over Mustang and 380 backup....)
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:01:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: cherokee.199211061827.AA19419
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

In article <BxAsup.39G@cs.psu.edu> drj@dev-null.phys.psu.edu (Dan Jeuch) writes:
#In article <17Vc02Ns2a8k01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger) writes:
##
##1) Must be double action
##2) Should be roughly thge same size as the guns previously mentioned 
##   (Mustang, 380 backup, etc.)
##3) MUST have a decent trigger pull.
##4) I would prefer a 9mm parabellum, but it must be .380ACP minimum.
#
#As for point #4, I believe one of the smallest 9mm guns available is the
#Firestar.  Personally, I've never fired it, and I think it's a bit heavy.
#For carry, I prefer something light.  Anyway...

How about a S&W 3913? After doing some survey on what are available
in the market, I think it is a good choice for small to medium size
people. What do you guys think?

BTW, what are the differences between a S&W 3913 and a S&W 3913 Lady Smith?
What are the pros and cons for a guy to use a Lady Smith? ;)

Later,
David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com  
 Communication Services Research  | Defend your life with style! -- Beretta
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (Randolph Sopicki)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Fletchette
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:16:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: pro-ambe.1992Nov10.073319.3735
Organization: ProLine [pro-amber] -- Spring Valley, Ca

I need some help settling a question we have.
During Vietnam there was a fletchette type of weapon or round.
I contend it was a paarticular round that was made for the M79 for the
recoiless and other systems. My running mate says it there was a
"fletchette weapon."
From: dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu (Don Lambert)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle recommendations for DCM Matches?
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:20 GMT
Organization: BGSU University Computer Services

If you want a NRA Highpower rifle you can use the Enfield #4 or 96 Swedish
Mauser with any type of iron sights you want. But the only riles you can
use for DCM are M1 Grand (30.06 or .308), M-14 / M1-A or M-16 / AR15. DCM
Matches are a service rifle match, currently there are no bolt guns that
qualify as service rifles. All bolt guns are considered "Match Guns."

Basic Rule: All DCM leagl guns can be used for NRA Highpower, but not all
NRA Highpower guns can be used for DCM.

Don Lambert
University Computer Services
Bowling Green State University
        	       	       	       	       	       	
INTERNET : dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu
From: larrya@eagle.natinst.com (Larry Anglin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:26:53 GMT
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX

I perssonally have been impressed with the job you have been doing and would
hate to see this group become unmoderated.  I don't have all day to sift
through mail to find relevant topics.  I vote to keep the group the way
it is.

Thanks for the hard work.

Best regards,
Larry Anglin
Engineering Manager
National Instruments
From: mauritz_c@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Anyone using the .38-55 anymore???
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:24:45 GMT
Organization: SPC Community Access System

Is anyone else out there using a .38-55 anymore?  I'm having difficulty
finding decent reloading data.  I got a reloading press (Dillon)
recently and my father was able to find .38-55 dies.  The only reloading
specs I've been able to find seem rather wimpy for a modern rifle.  My
rifle, a Legendary Frontiersman Model 94, is only about 10 years old
so I would think that it could take slightly "hot" loads (not screamers,
mind you, but 10-15% hotter than normal).  I want those 255gr bullets
to move a little faster so I can leave my protractor at home next time
I have a 100-150 yard shot with it. :-)

Any info will be eagerly snapped up and summarized (if there's interest).

Cheers,

Chris
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: I picked PPK/S over Mustang and 380 backup....
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:24:36 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini) writes:

#	My recommendataion: 
#	Carry flat point 115 or 125 grain cast bullets, because:
#	1) with low sectional density bullets (ie the 80-100 grain)
#	bullets that are typical of 380 ACP loads, expansion is not
#	wanted because the penetration is going to be sub-optimal to
#	begin with. The more the bullet expands, the less it penetrates.
#	2) At the low velocities you will not get the much-debated
#	'shock' effect, even if it exists.
#	3) you don't loose much velocity by going to heavy cast bullets,
#	I don't know if this is because factory ammo is loaded so light, 
#	or what. I've seen 115 grain cast loads at 1000fps, and 125
#	grain loads in the high 900's. 

	Holy cow!  In a blow-back?   How do you know you aren't risking
premature breach opening in some pistols with that load, with blown 
case and a hot gas/brass shower as a possible result?   Maybe if your
gun has a stiff spring, but that seems like it could be bad...

Jim


#	4) If you must carry JHP loads, get the Corbon 90 Sierra
#	at 1050fps. This is a +p load that expands to .50" or so, and
#	penetrates to 10" or so( in gelatin). The use of these loads 
#	in a blow back like the Walther is problematic. The extra bolt
#	thrust can lead to functioning problems. Interestingly the Mustang
#	with it's locking breech can handle these hot loads much better
#	than the much heaver Walther. For that reason, if I had to carry
#	a 380, I'd carry a Mustang Pocket light. 


A good thing to know.  I hate the caliber, as the only purpose of .380
brass seems to be to confuse me when I picking up my 9mms, but I may
get one some day.    BTW, anyone seen those European two-tone pocket
.32 ACPs with the blue slide and grey aluminum frame?  I don't know
if they're FEG or what, but I'd like to look at one.   They look real
tiny in the catalogs, and nicer than the FEG .380s and 9x18s.

	European Model 74 the flyer says, but I wonder if it's just
FEG and they're afraid to use the brand name.  $120.


BTW, is there anything that .32 ACP can do in a 2.5"-3" barreled gun
that can't be done with CCI Stingers?   .32 ACP would be an ok caliber
for .22 and .25 sized guns, imo.  I like the looks of that Seecamp, but
it's far to pricey for me.

Jim
From: ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Christopher Mauritz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Inexpensive shotgun query
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:56:56 GMT

I'm confronted with the possibility of spending most of this year's
hunting (deer) season in shotgun territory.  Since I'm going with
my father and we only have one shotgun between us, it's time to
shop.  I'm basically interested in a reliable 12 guage pump shotgun.
There seem to be a lot of Mossberg models in the $200-300 range and
I looked at the Remington 870 today (selling for $230).  I would
appreciate any recommendations on a shotgun in this price
range ($200-300).

Also, what advantage is there in having a shotgun that can handle
various sizes of shells (such as 2.75", 3", 3.5"....)?  Is one
shell size more of a standard?

As you can tell, I'm not very knowledgable about scatter guns
at all and I would really appreciate any insight you netters
could throw my way.

Looks like my .38-55 Winchester will have the season off this
year...sigh...

Cheers,

Chris

-- 
Christopher Mauritz                 | It's conventional in the extreme. I
ritz@ritz.mordor.com                | guess I've seen too much, because I
{backbone}!rutgers!spcvxb!ritz!ritz | don't actually find her provacative
                                    | either.   -Bowie on Madonna-
From: voodoo!tomm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ruger screw size info needed
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:05:44 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA



My friend owns a Ruger model M77 MkII with the synthetic stock.  He
purchased a set of walnut inlays for the forearm and grip, and now
the screws are too long.  Before he cuts them off, he'd like to
try to get some shorter replacement screws.  I rummaged through my
boxes of tiny screws, and found that the originals are larger than
4-40, but won't quite go in a 5-40 tapped hole.  They mic at .1217,
which is pretty close to a metric 3mm, and 40 threads/in is close
to a metric pitch of 1.5.  My theory is that the screws are indeed
metric 3X1.5; anyone know for sure?  If so, please email me, as the
powers that be have temporarily shut down our news feed :-(

(Luckily, I am about 250 articles behind in rec.guns, but what will I
do after that????  I might actually have to do some code development!)

-- 
Tom Mackey       (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services         ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,     P.O. Box 24346,     Seattle, WA     98124-0346
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:53:33 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

about the ice/sawdust mixture:
seeing as how wood floats, how would you keep the wood particles suspended
while freezing it?
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:23:30 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <RTARAZ.92Nov11125627@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
[ story about a deaf person being shot for producing his ID deleted ]
#I got a chill going down my back bone after reading this story.
#What would you DO if you shot this poor fellow and then saw his card?


This very situation happened here in San Diego some years ago.
A fellow was running along a main street (the street has a less than
perfect reputation) and a police car spotted him.  They pulled over
in front of him, told him to stop.  He reached into his jacket pocket
for his deaf ID card and the police shot him when he got his hand
inside his jacket.  After he was down they discovered that he was
clutching the card.

I would think that organizations which serve the deaf should be
educated in the public safety aspects of presenting ID.  Does the
NRA have any programs to do this?

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: dlo@druwa.ATT.COM (OlsonDL)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Cosmoline
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:24:22 GMT



I understand that in order to keep guns in long-term storage, it is
highly recommended that they be packed in Cosmoline.

But where can I get it?  I have checked gun shops, gun shows, gun
smiths, and hardware stores, and none seem to carry it.

Any suggestions?  Alternatives?  Thanks much in advance.
--
David Olson   dlo@druwa.ATT.COM
"Keep in mind that I am speaking from Cambridge Massachusetts, which is
 about as far out as you can get."  Robert Reich, economic advisor to
 Bill Clinton, on "This Week with David Brinkley" 11/08/92
From: vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:11:14 GMT
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY

Hi Jim,

     Is this kid for real???  Holy sh--, I guess they're right when
they say that there's all kinds of people in the world. :-)  I truly
can't figure out what his purpose is.  Is he a gun grabber in drag, or
truly a textbook case of why pro-choice is the way to go?  Lord, I was
astounded by your post.  Braindead kids like Ben scare me.  Anyway, I
sent a followup to your post (even refrained from using the term
"wankstain" and am proud of my willpower :-).  Keep up the good work
as our moderator.


John

P.S.-- You don't need to reply to this, I'm sure you'll be swamped
with mail showing support and won't have time to answer it all.

-- 
******************************************************************************
               John S. Van Etten     vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu
       Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute  1000 MIPS GaAs F-RISC Project
       --"If sand didn't irritate oysters, there would be no pearls"--
From: chrisb@wang.com (Chris Bennet)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: The HK P7M8 - is it worth the $$$ ??
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:47:20 GMT
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA

loki@acca.nmsu.edu writes:

#In article <9210310253.AA13629@afterlife.ncsc.mil> you wrote:
#: 
#: A friend of mine and I were discussing handguns. I am a Glock fan. Although
#: I don't own one as of yet, I am considering buying a Glock 19 very soon. My
#: friend is a HK fan. We both agree that both guns would be good CC weapons.
#: What both of us were wondering is if the HK is worth the cash? Also, are
#: there any advantages of one over the other? I would appreciate any thoughts
#: that anyone might have on this. Thanks in advance!
#: 
#: 			- Tim

#IMNSHO, the P7 is the safest carry gun you can get.  On one hand, it
#doesn't go bang when you squeeze the trigger, unlike a glock or a DA
#revolver.  On the other hand, there are no little gizmos you have to
#move out of the way to make it go bang, like a SA automatic.  All you
#do is pick it up, squeeze it (very natural, especially if you're 
#scared) and press the trigger.  The chances of both cocking it and
#pressing the trigger unintentionally are very slim, I think.  They are
#also very well made, and, as far as I can tell, very accurate.  Worth
#the price?  well, at $400 for a glock and $600 or so for a P7... I think
                                            ^ upside down ?
#so.  I understand that hospital bills and court costs resulting from
#an accidental shooting can become quite unreasonable!  (Not to imply
#that the glock is UNsafe... safety resides in the hands of the shooter.
#I just think its easier to be safe with a squeeze cocker).

#--Dan

Nice pistol, but closer to $1000, like $950 for M8 and $1050 for M13
and like $800 used.

 not a flame,
  Chris
From: asbestos@nwu.edu (Michael A. Atkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 10 Nov 92 03:16:29 GMT
Organization: Chaos

lairdb@crash.cts.com writes:

#[anthrax@vax1.mankato.msus.edu writes:]

#>viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:

### I hadn't really thought about it before, but what is possibly the best
### poor tactical position to put somebody in, and just how would you enforce
### your wishes?  Personally, I like the idea of spread eagle, on the ground,
### face in the dirt for a perp, but what if he doesn't obey?  I can't shoot
### the guy then, and there's no other option open to me.  If I'm holding
### a gun on a guy, I can't adjust his attitude with a club.  I've given
### myself only one option, basically.

##The current position that is being taught to law enforcement as the safest
##way to position suspects is the "prone position".  We have the subject lay on
##the ground with his head turned away from the officer.  The subjects arms are
##to be extended all the way out from the body with the palms facing up.  The
##legs are to be spread as wide out as possible. (Another school of thought has
##the suspect crossing his/her ankles).

#No disagreement, but I think the more interesting question is the one Dan
#brings up next: what if the subject refuses?  Assume he makes no otherwise 
#"threatening" moves for the moment, just stands there.  Could Joe Civilian
#(remember, we're focussing on the civilian response) interpret refusal-to-
#obey as a threatening response in-and-of-itself?  If the answer is "no", 
#formulate and defend an appropriate response.  If the answer is "yes", 
#discuss the civilian's liability exposure, and appropriate "story".

I for one *would* almost certainly interpret refusal-to-obey as a
threatening response.  If I ever (touch wood) have to draw a firearm on
someone, the only two acceptable responses will be instant flight, or
obeying what I tell him.  Anything else will get him shot, and I'll deal
with the liability later.

And if he flees towards my family, he gets shot.

If I shot somebody under these circumstances, and I was not (as I will be
when I finish school) in a state with a more enlightened view of
self-defense than Illinois, I'd probably argue that his refusal to get
prone was reasonably interpreted as preparation to harm me.

I'm open to suggestions on better ways to handle this, I sure am no
authority.  

# ; personally (opinion formed through simulations) I favor
#the legs-apart style: IMO, visually-psychologically you have a tad more 
#warning as the subject begins to move.

Agreed.


Mike
-- 
Michael A. Atkinson    | "I'm wearing this hat because I don't want 
asbestos@nwu.edu       |  my brain to ears out my ooze." - Jeff B.

            A Libertarian and an NRA member.
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Small autos for carry
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:45:08 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <BxAsup.39G@cs.psu.edu> drj@dev-null.phys.psu.edu (Dan Jeuch) writes:
#I saw a Sig
#P230 for sale for $409, and I couldn't pass it up.  
#
#IMHO, it's perfect for me.  If you get a chance, it's a definite must-try.

	I must concur.  I shot the stainless 230 a while ago, and just like
	a SIG, it had me right off.  The workmanship is fine and the 
	accuracy was great.  One of these days when I have some extra
	cashish, I think I make a 230 my next pistol.  Not a bad size for CC
	either, though being from NJ, I cannot do this (may Jim Florio rot
	in hell).

	Andy V.
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Psychology in Defense
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:28 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <9211032142.AA10774@relay1.UU.NET>, by danield@unlv.edu (Daniel Z. Davidson):
# In article <199211030414.AA00686@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
# #In article <01GQO74NC19U8ZF2CM@CC.USU.EDU> slkdh@cc.usu.edu writes:
# ##A shotgun works, too.  But I don't give much stock
# ##to the psychological effect of noise, if a loud gun is going to scare them,
# ##then most any gun will scare them.
# #
# #I'm not so sure: A friend once _accidentally_ scared a burgaler into 
# #jumping out a second story window. She had just finished cleaning it,
# 
# [Rest of the story deleted to save space.]
# 
# I think the point is this.  It's nice when just the sight or sound of a
# firearm is enough to deter a burglar/attacker/whatever, However, it is
# not wise to count on that alone as your defense.  If brandishing the weapon
# does not suffice, you need to follow it up as apropriate.
#

It seems to me that, aside from being prepared to shoot, the most
important thing is to convince the other person that _yes indeed,
you will shoot them_. 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Neck sizing
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:51:21 GMT
Organization: Yale University, Computing & Information Systems


In article <1992Nov11.035257.22749@news.eng.convex.com>, cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
|> Well, I'm getting set up to reload for my 6.5 Swedish Mauser, and I have a
|> couple of questions. First of all, what's the consensus out there on neck
|> sizing vs. full length sizing? Can I get away just with neck sizing, or
|> will I have to resize full length every once in a while? Or should I forget
|> about neck sizing?
|> 
|> Also, what dies should I get if I neck size? Do neck sizing dies have
|> decappers built in, or do I need a separate decapper die? 
|> 
|> The best deal for the neck sizing dies appears to be Redding ($14 for the
|> one die in the Lock Stock & Barrel catalog). Anybody know of a better deal?
|> 
|> By the way, I'd like to express my thanks to the moderator and the members
|> of this group. Not only is reading the articles fun, but I'm grateful for
|> all the helpful and supportive advice I receive whenever I ask a question.
|> Would that all the net were like rec.guns!

The only time I messed with neck-only dies was for 7mm TCU, and I quickly
gave up on it.  I guess in the benchrest shooting community there is a
valid point to it, but I never found enough accuracy difference to make
it worthwhile.  I did find that eventually (like every 2 or 3 loadings)
I had to full-length resize anyway.  I suppose if you really hate
lubing and cleaning your cases, that could be another reason to do neck-only
sizing.

For 6.5x55 I've only used full-length resizing dies.  Given the amount of
rifle ammo you're going to shoot, the extra time and trouble to lube and
then clean the cases doesn't add up to much.  After several attempts to
"save money" by forming 6.5x55 cases out of .30-06, I gave up and bought
some new unloaded Norma cases.  I would guess they have 4 or 5 loadings
by now (I don't shoot nearly as often as I'd like to), and show no signs
of wearing out.  One guy at the range gunshop is still reloading the Norma
6.5x55 cases he bought 20 years ago.  6.5x55 is mild pressure round, as
modern rifle cartridges go.

Just make sure you trim the necks as needed.
-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu