HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mr3@ukc.ac.uk (M.Rizzo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Problem with Protar drive/TOS 1.2
Date: 1 Sep 92 10:02:06 GMT
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

I'm posting this for a friend. Reply by email to

         cmeli%panther@carla.dist.unige.it

or to me if it bounces back. Thanks.

Mike

---------------------------------------------------------------

Has anyone got a Protar drive (mine is a ProGate 100DC) working with
TOS 1.2? Autobooting results in 2,3 or 11 bombs (even if I insert a
floppy to boot from) while if I copy any file to the hard disk only
the first 1024 bytes are copied correctly (the rest is garbage).
So running programs copied this way results in 2 bombs or a TOS #35
error message. I've tried reformatting & checking for bad sectors
but the drive is physically fine. It's got to be the TOS version.
I thought it could be due to the Protar software writing the FAT
as a 16-bit one so I created a 2.9Meg partition so only a 12-bit
FAT got created. It didn't work still.
The manual states that you have to switch the drive on and wait for
25 seconds, then you switch on the ST. If I do this I get 2,3 or 11
bombs as I stated above. So I first switch on the ST and then the drive
after the ST boots. Then I run BOOT.TTP manually. The version of the
Protar software I have is 4.12 (July 1992) (English version).
Has anyone got it working with TOS 1.2?
I will be upgrading to TOS 2.06, but in the meantime I would like ot
be able to use the drive!

Please reply to me at cmeli%panther@carla.dist.unige.it
or if you can't get through send your message to mr3@ukc.ac.uk
who will forward it to me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks,

Clyde.

--
Michael Rizzo                           email mr3@ukc.ac.uk
Rm109B, Computing Laboratory
University of Kent
Canterbury CT2 7NF  U.K.                Tel. (0227) 764000 Ext 7684
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu)
Subject: Re: Bugs in Mint0.95
Organization: SAR Systems Development & Processing, JPL
Distribution: comp
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:22:44 GMT

In article <MUTS.92Aug31103119@ruunfs.fys.ruu.nl> muts@fysap.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers) writes:
>When I did the upgrade from 0.94 to 0.95 I hit two little bugs in the
>news version:
>
>1) When a filesystem (minix.xfs) is in / instead of in /mint, it gets
>loaded twice (at least I see the copyright notice of minix.xfs twice).

The released version of Mint 0.95 was patchlevel 13. This bug was fixed
a couple days later in patchlevel 14.
>
>2) There is something wrong with cursor handling when using
>/dev/fasttext, which used not to be. The cursor is not blinking
>anymore, and when I hit return often the black spot remains on the
>last line. Also, in an editor the cursor often is not visible at all.
>Note that this did not occur with TOS things like gulam, but with my
>version of bash and microemacs; I compiled these for the plain unix
>version (which works fine and is nicer than the TOS versions).

I haven't seen any mention of this bug before, bummer...

By the way, since the .95 release, there have been 3 more patches sent out -
the one I mentioned above, and two more bringing it to version 0.96,
patch level 1. Dunno when a binary for these will be made available.
-- 
  -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
 ::To the owner of the blue Mazda, license 742-XLT, your headlights are on...::
 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
From: ralph@laas.fr (Ralph P. Sobek)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Postscript to Image ???
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:18:39 GMT
Organization: LAAS-CNRS France
In-reply-to: dennis@citr.uq.oz.au's message of 31 Aug 92 06:49:43 GMT

I think that Jeff Poskanzer's PBM package does this!

Cheers,

--
Ralph P. Sobek			  Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own.
Ralph.Sobek@laas.fr			   Addresses are ordered by importance.
ralph@laas.fr						If all else fails, try:
ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph	      sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU
Phone: (+33-)61-33-62-66  FAX-1: (+33-)61-33-64-55  FAX-2: (+33-)61-55-35-77
===============================================================================
Got a Mega 4 ST. Wish it was a Mega STe? :-|  Do I *really* want a Falcon/Next?
From: jornmoe@fredrik.atari.no (Joern Moe)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization: Atari Corp. Scand. AB (Norway)
Subject: Re: TT Compatability questions
Keywords: TT, ST, compatible, games, applications
	<1992Sep3.115337.3528@cs.hw.ac.uk>
Reply-To: jornmoe@fredrik.atari.no
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.03 Rev. Apr 14 1992
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 19:37:18 MET

In <1992Sep3.115337.3528@cs.hw.ac.uk>, Neil Forsyth writes:
>>No, not many games do work (at least without doing some tricks)! But
>>does it matter. Who buys a TT for playing games? I'd rather buy a LYNX
>>for that purpose:-)
>
>It matters plenty! If games don't work on the TT because they are poorly
>written and don't take account of the 68030 then the same games will not
>work on the Falcon. I can easily imagine people buying Falcons to play
>games.
>

If You'r concerned about Falcon's compatibility you'r doing some wrong 
assumptions!
The TT and the Falcon 030 may have the same processor, but that's not the 
same as beeing identical machines in respect to compatibility with the ST.

First, all hardware in the Falcon resides within the same 24Bit addressing 
range as th ST. In the TT, there are a full 32Bit addressing range wich
causes a lot of trouble for some games.

Second, the Falcon is designed to be as compatible with the ST as possible.
The TT was designed to be as powerfull as possible, and at the same time
a TOS machine wich should run any well written GEM application. Nothing
more was ever promised.

Third, the falcon is a consumer product, the TT is not! This beeing a fact 
makes it obvious why Falcon has to be more 'old-ST-games' compatible than
the TT was.

And last, don't you forget that many games doesn't even tolerate the 16Mhz
and cache of the MSTE (or speedup-boards for old ST(E)'s). Some games are
even quite intolerant to different TOS versions to! So, I'd bee more concerned
about the compatibility of the games, rather than about the compatibility of 
the machines!

-- 
  _______________________________________________________
 / Joern F. Moe /  All above is my own personal opinion! \
/ Oslo, Norway /  Any lack of opinion above is also mine! \
-----------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: STZIP20.TOS
From: sheppard_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 11:00:47 GMT
Reply-To: sheppard_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council, Wgtn, NZ

Well I have just uploaded stzip20.tos (126k) to the atari/new directory
on A.A...

This is a ST clone of PKZIP 2.0, has english doc's and
a self extracting utility program..

This program has a Gem shell for those like me, that like to use the Ataries
GUI...

NOTE: This is a self extracting program, so make sure that you have room
on your disk before you run it, more that 410k..??



Roger.............               sheppard_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz




Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: paetau@mits.mdata.fi (Rasmus Paetau)
Subject: Re: Falcon Resolution, Audio Sampling
Organization: Microdata Oy, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 17:54:09 GMT


Let's see if I've understood this interlace-thing right :

Falcon uses interlace to produce the 480 vertical resolution, if you
are using a normal monitor. If you are using a VGA or a MultiSync, it
will not be interlaced. Is that right?? Or does Falcon use interlace
even with a Multisync or a VGA?
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Rasmus Paetau (paetau@mits.mdata.fi) | Waiting for the Atari Falcon |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: selick@csa.bu.edu (Steven Selick)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: PERFPICH.TOS v1.1 posted to a.a
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:25:28 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: selick@csa


I just uploaded my PERFPICH.TOS v1.1 to terminator.cc.umich.edu in the
/atari/new directory. It is a few minor bug fixes to the old 1.0
program, recompiled with GFA 3.5E. It's a self-extracting archive made
with the stzip20.tos program that was just uploaded.
-Steve <selick@csa.bu.edu>
From: Steven.Wells@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Icon-Editor
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:29:04 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange



Does anyone know where I can get an application for editing the
DESKICON.RSC files (the icons) in TOS 2.?+

I'm using a ReSourCe editor at the moment - but it is very slow, and
very awkward to use - and every time I save the file, I have to delete
the definition files it creates.

ICONEDIT.APP is mentioned in the DESKICON.RSC as one of the icon names
- and if it does the job, I'd like to get a copy from somewhere!!
-- 
        Wells_S@Kosmos.WCC.Govt.NZ     /     Steven.Wells@BBS.Actrix.Gen.NZ 
                   $$$$$$$$ Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre $$$$$$$$
From: wenzel@marsu.tynet.sub.org (Markus Wenzel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization: Marsupilami's private UUCP site - Palumbien, Germany.
Subject: Re: New operating systems (OS/2-TOS)
	<H.JHXj&6Ouz4Y@marsu.tynet.sub.org>
	<1992Aug26.182907.28894@ra.msstate.edu>
	<1992Aug26.202952.26085@nosc.mil>
Reply-To: wenzel@marsu.tynet.sub.org
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.03 Rev. Apr 14 1992
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:53:40 MET

In <1992Aug26.202952.26085@nosc.mil>, Mike Healy writes:
> 
> As far as running 68040s at higher than rated clock speeds, we use
> 25 MHz 68040s and FORCE has glued industrial strength heat sinks
> directly onto the 68040 chips because these suckers run hot at
> 25 MHz. Now this 60 MHz thing is from Germany, right? And I 
> understand that it can get pretty cold in Deutschland, so maybe
> the heat produced by the chip will be of more benefit than it
> would be here in sunny So Cal :-)

I can ensure you we have about 30 degrees Celsius here in
Deutschland these days... And we're not going to use high speed
68040 CPUs for heating our rooms :-)

Without kidding: The computer we talk about was in fact clocked with
60 MHz internally and 30 MHz externally. I was astonished myself 
as I did not see any icecap or fan for the CPU.

Regards, Markus.



-- 
/dev                Markus Wenzel, University of Stuttgart
/usr/spool/mail     wenzel@marsu.tynet.sub.org / @rus.uni-stuttgart.de
/etc/motd           >> Luck is believing you're lucky ! <<
From: jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Databases for the STe
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:17:53 GMT

What databases are available that work on the 1040 STe?  I have Regent Base,
which I like (on my ST), but doesn't work on the STe.  Both commercial and
PD (free or shareware).  I have tried Fastbase from a.a.u.e but it appears
to have a bug (on my STe) and I haven't been able to contact the author.

Jim     jharres@oz.bmd.trw.com
From: baffoni@aludra.usc.edu (Juxtaposer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: max baudrate?
Date: 2 Sep 1992 16:06:11 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1992Sep2.010527.13472@zooid.guild.org> Mike Stramba <stramba@zooid.guild.org> writes:

>The 8n1/7e1 thing is EMACS's problem. I have run into exactly the same thing
[stuff about physically setting parity on UNIX deleted]

	Actually, I got mail back from the author of Connect and he recom-
mended that I use the strip-bit-8 option.  (this should work, but I haven't
had a chance to check it out).

[problems using XYZ2.01 deleted]
>Is this the first term program you have tried?  Have you tried Freeze Dried?

	This is not the first term prog that I have tried - I normally use
Uniterm (which works nice in STHIGH but I wanted to move to something that
supports TTmodes, new graphics cards, etc.) and a couple of other term progs
(I just deleted as they were worse than Uniterm), but I have not had a 
try at Freeze Dried.  Does it support VT220?  BTW, XYZ2.01 works fine with
Uniterm, but not with Connect and the author is not familiar with XYZ.  Has
anyone successfully gotten Connect to work with XYZ?  If so, what version/
setup do you have?  If no one uses XYZ, what Zmodem external program do you
use?  He suggested Zmodem by (I forget authors name just now).

>Apparently there is an ENGLISH version of Connect in circulation. As far as
>the program anyway (or is this what you have now?). I gave up on trying to get
>it run. I find Freeze Dried great (although I'm only running 2400). 

	Yes, I have the English version of the Connect - actually very easy
to Englishify it by renaming conneng.rsc to connect.rsc.  However, the 
manual is not so easily changed. :(.  Wolfgang (the author) said that someone
in Canada is supposedly working on an English manual, but hasn't gotten word
back from them yet....

	The only real peeve I have now is the slow updating, but Wolfgang says
that NVDI (and I would imagine Warp9) should fix that, as well as giving
access to more screen fonts.  We'll see. :)

	Thanks for help from you guys!  (and gals :)

-Mike
From: mhughes@comtch.spk.wa.us (Mark Hughes)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: ding dong.. who's there ? Dr who..
Date: 26 Aug 92 12:57:53 GMT
Organization: Waffle BBS at CompuTech Spokane, Washington

warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison) writes:
> I don't see why a new-computer buyer would avoid the Falcon - or any Atari
> products.  Certainly a PC is useless to the new user - way to difficult to
> operate (it's okay for us to say "Oh, just press return", but take a look
> at the average new-user - I have, and they HATE IBM PC's).  Apple computers
> are great for new users - but $$$'s are always on the new-buyers mind, since
> that is about the only thing they are familiar with that they can compare
> (Computer A is cheaper than computer C, so buy A).
> "Power without the Price" is good.

 
  The only trouble with this is that it assumes equal marketing - that 
the new buyer is AWARE that A exists and is cheaper than C.  If all he 
or she knows about is C, that is what will be purchased.  If the buyer 
thinks that A doesn't have software, or support, or any of a million 
things a new user thinks are important (and they think some odd things 
are important), they'll buy C.
 
  You can have the best product in the world, at the lowest cost (gee, I 
seem to recall a computer that fit that description...), but if you don't 
market it, and FLOOD the public awareness, you will never sell anything.
 
  Yes, ads in magazines like Time, Newsweek, People, Good Housekeeping, 
etc. and on national network television (or MTV, CNN, etc.), are 
expensive.  But not advertising is FAR more expensive.  And sadly, that's 
the path Atari's taken for the past seven years.
 
  Much as I love using the ST, and I am seriously considering the Falcon, 
I won't buy it if Atari doesn't proselytize to the unwashed masses.  I'd 
rather go with one of the goyim computers in that case.
 
 - Mark Hughes #1101                          mhughes@comtch.spk.wa.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: "Paul Purdom" <pwp@moose.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Dungeon Master
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 11:57:04 -0500

I am interesting in where I can obtain alternate dungeons for Dungeon Master.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: uace0@menudo.uh.edu (Enthusiasts)
Subject: Documentation writers needed
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:13:05 GMT

Double Click Software is looking for qualified documentation writers.  We are in
immediate need for qualified, competent and experienced documentation writers.

If you feel that you have the time (this is going to require real time) and feel
that you are qualified, please contact us here by email: uace0@menudo.uh.edu

include your name and telephone number you can be reached at in the evenings.

Thank you,

- Michael B. Vederman / President / Double Click Software
-- 
Signature?  Signature?  We don't need no stinkin' signature!
From: kjohnson@castor.cs.uga.edu (Kristopher Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon and A/D
Date: 30 Aug 92 22:58:25 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

The TT030 has a standard SCSI port, not a SCSI-II port, which is why it's
different than the SCSI-II port on the Falcon.  SCSI-II has a standard 
connector and that's what the Falcon has.  To hook up SCSI-I peripherals
to a SCSI-II port, you just need an adaptor.

Steve
Organisation: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet, Muenster, Germany
Date: Monday, 31 Aug 1992 14:24:56 MES
From: Bjarne Pohlers <POHLERB@DMSWWU1A.UNI-MUENSTER.DE>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Is UMich Archive Still Around?
Distribution: usa

It is.
--
!"$%&/);=?!-.'"[!=({\,@*~#+$['&^(/!&=]`"%$_^.|?>}`>|"/~^<$:&)*;#!;[&=#"&%$\':"[
"  Bjarne Pohlers    Fast address: <pohlerb@math.uni-muenster.de>             &
\                    Slow address: Asbeckweg 15 | W-4400 Muenster | Germany   \
&                    Phone number: (X49)251-866559                            "
[":'\$%&"#=&[;!#;*)&:$<^~/"|>`}>?|.^_$%"`]=&!/(^&'[$+#~*@,\{(=!["'.-!?=;)/&%$"!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: miked@syscon.rn.com (Mike DeMetz)
Subject: Re: Packet radio
Organization: Syscon Corporate Headquarters - South Bend, IN USA
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 13:01:49 GMT

leridez@rpksun1.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de (Daniel Leridez) writes:

>Keywords: 

>Hi anybody !

>Can anyone tell me where i can find programs for pocket radio with the ST.
>FTP-Sites are prefered. Does anyone works with such programs ?

>Please send Email.

>Thank you

>	Daniel
I have one that came on a PD disk with some other Ham software.
From: baffoni@aludra.usc.edu (Juxtaposer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Mac Portable vs. ST Portable
Date: 2 Sep 1992 15:14:09 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <9209011919.AA27469@photon.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Your Conscience) writes:
>You can get a Mac Powerbook 100 (not a bad machine really, not real fast, but 
>certainly good for wordprocessing) for about $1000.

	Actually, you can get one for around $700 or $800 from the San Diego
Price Club (Apple just shipped them a REAL cheap shipment - which of course
pissed all of their normal retail outlets in a major way).  With this new
price, the 100s are now being sold (out) at the rate Apple had been hoping
for, but never got.  This is PB100 with 4/40 and external floppy.  Of course,
they are probably sold out by now....


>
>If you hurry...

no kidding!

>---------------------------------------------------------------------->
>|-) -David Butler- dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>
>- who now has a shorter .sig file due to complaints...

	If I had thought complaints would help, I would have sent you mail 
too.  :)!!!  (not that I have anything against Willie Whats-his-name...)

>  |||        - FRANK ZAPPA for president! "One of his best qualifications is
> / | \         that at least he won't take it seriously." - Jammer


-Mike

Xref: sparky comp.sys.atari.st:12837 comp.sys.atari.st.tech:4590
From: omerzu@quando.quantum.de (Thomas Omerzu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: MiNTSHEL bombs on ESC-T (was: MiNT 0.95 now available)
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:34:21 GMT
Reply-To: omerzu@quantum.de (Thomas Omerzu)
Organization: Quantum Software GmbH, Dortmund, Germany


In article <1992Aug8.122634.1@uwovax.uwo.ca>
7103_2622@uwovax.uwo.ca (Eric Smith) writes:

>The correct termcap entry for tw52 is the one put into the TERMCAP=
>environment variable by TOSWIN. You can also retrieve it by sending
>ESC T to TOSWIN from one of the windows. 


If I open a TOSWIN window with MINTSHEL running inside, 'echo ESC-T' bombs out
the shell; I finally tried it on a minimal system; nevertheless the
problem didn't disappear:

This is a MEGA-ST1 with (German) TOS1.4.
I prepared a disk with only the following files on it:

	AUTO\MINT.PRG
	TOSWIN.ACC
	TOSWIN.RSC
	MINTSHEL.TTP

After system startup, open TOSWIN, create a std window with MINTSHEL in
it (no args) and enter 'echo ESC-T'.
In response, I get something like
	pid 3 (MINTSHEL): BUS ERROR: PC=456205c (basepage=759d0)
The TERMCAP string gets printed, then MINTSHEL exits.



-- 
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
    Thomas Omerzu.            Internet: omerzu@quantum.de
 Quantum Software GmbH        Bitnet:   omerzu%quando@UNIDO.bitnet
   Dortmund,Germany           UUCP:     ...!unido!quando!omerzu
From: Chris_Millar@lppl.mi.org (Chris Millar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Lynx Batman 2 MILLION SELLOUT!!!! 
Distribution: world
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:54:44 EST
Organization: Les's Place BBS

Warner still owns a LARGE portion of Atari Computer Corp. stock - so, it
could be in their interests to support Atari outright.  Who knows?


-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: More Official Falcon Specs wanted
Date: 27 Aug 92 03:53:24 GMT
Reply-To: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au

leikvoll@hsr.no (Morten Leikvoll) writes:

> > - BLITTER 16 MHZ

>And how much memory can it handle??

This is an interesting question, since I believe even the more recent
Amigas have something like a 1-meg limit on "chip memory".  The blitter
on the ST had no such restrictions and the Falcon blitter is fully
compatible with that one.  I supose it could, technically be limited to
4Meg - since the entire ST could only (theoretically :-]) handle 4Meg.

> > Video:
> > - Hardware scrolling

>What about 'character screen' like the C64 and (i guess) 520 series. This lacks
>in the Amiga... (I'am an Amiga owner)


I don't think anything uses HARDWARE "character screens" (as in C64 and
Atari 800) any more - the 520 certainly didn't (the text mode their is
still graphical).  The reason is that software "character screens" can
EASILY be updated faster-than-the-eye-can read.  And after all, text
is only useful to be "read".  Okay, tell me about redefined character
sets, and 4-pixel colour text and other fancies the old 8-bits had...
No point these days.

Oh, I forgot - PC's still have a text screen.  For DOS.


>> Harddisk
>> - intern optional IDE-bus Harddisk (2,5")

>Included in the 500 GBpounds???? (if yes...count me in...)

Many have listed "$US1300" as Falcon+4Meg+65MegHD.  Count me in on that.
(actually, tell me the price for 14Meg first - that's necessary for
serious multitasking in a development environment)

--
Warwick
--
  _-_|\      warwick@cs.uq.oz.au            /Disclaimer:
 /     * <-- Computer Science Department,  /  
 \_.-._/     University of Queensland,    /      void (if removed)
      v      Brisbane, Australia.        /
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: AT-Speed and Windows 3.1 ?
From: dtarico@violet.ccit.arizona.edu
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:09:37 MST
Distribution: world,local
Nntp-Posting-User: dtarico

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
         Doug Tarico                      
    dtarico@ccit.arizona.edu         Where's it gonna get you when
      doug@sie.arizona.edu               your time comes up?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------