From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: _Jesus: A Life_ by A.N. Wilson
Date: 3 Jan 93 16:35:19 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

muttiah@thistle.ecn.purdue.edu (Ranjan S Muttiah) writes:

>In article <adams.726020083@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>Mark is said to best represent what is thought to be Peter's position.
>
>Well, I think Peter was in Rome for sometime as well, so it is again
>only possible that Mark was influenced by Peter (but it raises the question
>of where Mark got the information about what the various disciplies were
>doing before and after the crucifiction).  I don't see many other
>reasons for believing otherwise since the differences among the disciples
>(their positions) were written about later in the Acts.
Mark, or better yet, John Mark, was with Peter in Rome, as far as we can
tell.  Obviously, there is a great lack of direct evidence for much of this
period.  Peter's enmity with Paul is largely glossed over in Acts, but Paul
brings it up in his letters when he says that he 'opposed Peter to his
face.'

John Mark is also held by some traditions to be the young man who was in
the Garden with Christ & the disciples, but ran off naked when his robe was
grabbed by a Roman soldier.

>>Whether he actually used any of the Roman sources is up for grabs.  One
>>thing to note is that the enmity between Jesus and the Jewish authorities
>>is not as pronounced as it is in Matthew & Luke.
>
>That is the trouble (about believing even the account in Mark).  I don't think
>it would have been difficult for Mark to get his hands on the official 
>documents >(as per it related to the trial, the Roman treaties with the 
>Sanhedrin etc).  The question is why doesn't he emphasize that he has checked 
>his story with the documents ?  
Luke claims to have done this...;-)  In any event, one wonders if John Mark
was a Roman citizen, for if he wasn't, his access would have been less free
than a Roman's would.  An example, too, of needing some pull to get
documents from the govt is shown by Seutonius' histories in _The Twelve
Ceasars_.  Once Seutonius fell out of favor with the emporer, his access to
documents was highly limited, and his histories became very short.

>I think he had some sort of contact through the wife of a
>high ranking Roman official (can't remember my source :-().  Additionally,
>I think there were means of petitioning the Roman courts to get any document
>to be put on public display.  Remember that the Romans were big fans of 
>playing by the rules.
One wonders though, what kind of treatment a Christian would have had at
this time.  Nero selected the Christians as his scapegoat for the fire,
since they were a small, misunderstood sect, who were 'canibals'...

>About the diferences, I think this again can be partly explained by the
>sack of the Temple.  The differences only got pronounced after this; it was
>there all along, however.  One was the establishment (only priests could
>enter the Temple) and other against the establishment (anyone should enter
>the Temple).
True enough...the sack of the Temple by Tiberius was the turning point of
the Jewish and Christian religions...the Jewish Christians were pretty much
scattered and eliminated, and the lack of the Temple gave rise to the
Jewish rabbinical tradition that comes down today.

>>While the events would have an effect, since the early dates are possible, 
>>and tradition supports them (from the early Fathers) assigning motives is 
>>kinda tough.  Of course, we can speculate...
>
>We agree then that it was more than (or really much less than :-) divine 
>inspiration that drove these people to write their accounts.  They must have
>been writing against or for someone or something.

Well, not quite.  I don't yield on this point....I still hold that all of
the texts, whatever the issues that surround them, are inspired...

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
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