From: kevink@fugitive.soac.bellcore.com (Kevin Klinge)
Subject: Re: Michigan RB's Was: Re: Heisman Poll Update
Keywords: here we go again...
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 14:02:08 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.014807.16588@u.washington.edu>, archmage@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Bakkemo) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul28.134507.16151@walter.bellcore.com> kevink@fugitive.soac.bellcore.com (Kevin Klinge) writes:
|> 
|> [blatently ingnoring the fact that it was mainly a reply to the debate over
|>  whether or not Elvis is a water buffalo]

Agreed, but you also mentioned Mario vs. Desmond, so that was the point
I was addressing, thus deleting the Elvis part.  Whether or not it was
"mainly" a reply about Elvis, you did mention Mario and Desmond (to which
I replied to).

|> >In article <1992Jul28.035347.26298@u.washington.edu>, archmage@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Bakkemo) writes:
|> >|> 
|> >|> Again, for lack of better instructional evidence, look at the Rose Bowl,
|> >|> when they "sort of" played head to head. Tell me, who did better?
|> >
|> >## how will he [Desmond] handle the pros if he couldn't even handle the 
|> >## Huskies' defense in the Rose Bowl?
|> 
|> Just fine probably. You never had any argument from ME on that count.
|> I never said he wasn't a good reciever. Why bring it up?

Because my reply directly pertains to why I thought Desmond didn't have
the type of day at the Rose Bowl that Bailey had, something you DID bring
up.  I didn't mean to imply at all you thought he was a bad receiver (sorry
if I did), but my answer to the above-question applies to what you did bring 
up.

|> >I think it was more Michigan's offensive line not being able to handle
|> >Washington's defense more than Desmond not handling the defense.  Elvis
|> >barely had time to get Desmond (or any receivers for that matter) the ball
|> >the way the Washington defensive line was rushing in.  I don't want to
|> >rehash through stuff I already said back in January, but you are bringing
|> >up something that was not as much Desmond's fault as it was the offensive
|> >line's.  I don't remember Desmond dropping passes in that game, but I do
|> >remember him not getting as many passes as he did in games during the regular
|> >season because Elvis was rushed all day and he was himself double covered.  
|> >Both contributed.
|> 
|> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> [pertinent perhaps to the water buffalo thread]

Perhaps, but I don't know if many QBs could have survived the onslaught the
Washington defensive line put on Michigan's that day.

|> >Still, I do remember an impressive catch in the first half when he jumped
|> >over 2 Washington defenders to make a catch to put Michigan into scoring
|> >range.  That was one of the rare times Elvis got the ball to him, and
|> >even then, it was a forced pass that mostly was completed because of
|> >Desmond's leaping ability.
|> 
|> Completely off topic but I can't resist getting drawn into this stupid
|> Desmond debate again... Be truthfull, I was there, it was over one DB
|> (Dana Hall) with one other DB nearby, and it was the only time Elvis
|> got him the ball in the air. (you may or may not be happy to note that
|> I was amazed at this catch.)

I thought two DB's had a chance for it (either knock down or intercept), so 
that is why I mentioned the two defenders.

|> >To imply that Desmond and Mario even "'sort of' played head to head" is
|> >laughable.  Unless you consider the defensive performances by both teams
|> >roughly equivalent, and I certainly don't.
|> 
|> This is annoying...Don't you think I know that...obviously not...what then
|> pray tell do YOU think the quotes were for?

Well, to then ask the question "Tell me, who did better?" made me wonder 
just what kind of point you were trying to make with the first sentence.  
Of course you know the obvious (they didn't play head to head), but I 
wondered what your question was trying to draw from the fact they just 
happened to play in the same game.

|> >|> The problem I think you'll find on the part of DAWG fans, isn't dogmatic
|> >|> inflexibilty in the Desmond vs Mario debate, it's that lack of anyone 
|> >|> giving Mario his due.
|> >
|> >Yeah, no respect at all, from ANYONE even.  Right...
|> 
|> I truely stand corrected in my statement by meticulous application of the
|> rules of grammer. Of course some people give him respect. I should
|> never have said "anyone" and should have instead written "a perceived many"
|> 
|> Happy?

I just thought it was inappropriate to bring out the violins (as I percieved
it) when talking about Mario's respect.  I personally have always thought
he was a great receiver.  

|> p.s. I don't really care about the Desmond debate and didn't what to start
|> the thread again, so please refrain from continuing this one.

Fine, I plan to, but some of the things you said initially lead me to believe
you did (e.g. "who did better" and "anyone giving Mario his due").  Understand 
where I was coming from when I initially read that.

-- 

Kevin H. Klinge
Bell Communications Research
kevink@soac.bellcore.com

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