HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: friedman@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Noah Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.photo,alt.cd-rom,gnu.misc.discuss,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: Time to boycott Photo CD
Date: 30 Aug 92 01:49:28 GMT
	<1992Aug27.173045.4694@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
	<1992Aug27.191008.8372@kodak.kodak.com>
Followup-To: rec.photo
Organization: Free Software Foundation, 675 Mass Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139
In-reply-to: axman@acadia.Kodak.COM's message of 27 Aug 92 19:10:08 GMT


   Mike Axman's posting may indeed be his opinions rather than Kodak's, but
you'd have trouble telling them apart in a photograph.

   The "maintaining quality for your own good" argument is a typical way of
rationalizing power.  If people have freedom, they can mistakes, or do a
bad job.  So you can justify taking away freedom by citing the mistakes
people could make if they were free.

   Another common rationalization which Axman uses is to claim to be
indispensible.  Without him, such a capability would never have existed, or
not for centuries at least. :-) The next step is to claim that the
particular business strategy chosen was the only possible one.

   Neither is true.  Universities have done important work in image
compression and will probably do more.  Before software patents, companies
too often developed software techniques and published them without
patenting them.

   When he says that "Patents and licenses are a reality of the current
corporate climate," this is a rationalization too.  Whenever people are
using power but don't want the blame, they call it a "fact of life."
Actually it is a choice, not an inevitable fact, but that is what this
rationalization strives to deny.

   Axman's message suggests that the data format or the conversion
algorithm may be patented as well as (in its details) trade secret.  This
means that even if we figure out how to do the job (which may not be
impossible), we'd be sued for implementing it.

   A boycott doesn't look promising as a countermeasure.  There are
probably many enthusiastic photographers willing to say, as one recently
did, "Who cares [what happens to your freedom, or mine]?  Not me, as long
as I can have a Kodak."  But most of them won't even get that far; they
won't be programmers or even know any programmers, and they won't be aware
of the issue.

   Arguing with Axman is not useful either.  Convincing him is
ultra-difficult because he knows his vested interest.  It is better to
concentrate on what we can do without convincing him.  That is why this
message is addressed to the other readers, not to him.

   An approach that might work is political action.  If you don't like the
way patents affect your freedom, join the League for Programming Freedom
and help do something about it.  Surveys show 80 to 90 percent of
programmers oppose software patents; if we get organized, we can do
something about them, Kodak or no.

   It's up to us to change the "reality of the current corporate climate."
Contact league@prep.ai.mit.edu for more information.
From: finn@isi.edu (Greg Finn)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: A FAQ
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:06:20 GMT
Reply-To: finn@dalek.isi.edu (Greg Finn)
Distribution: usa
Organization: USC-Information Sciences Institute

In article <1992Sep2.053852.15441@PacBell.COM> jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria) writes:

>It is common knowledge in the industry and most unbiased
>photo sales persons that the CANON AF lenses focus faster.

	Odd.  That's not what I heard.  It seems to depend
	on whom you ask.  The people that I asked sold Canon
	and most other lines too.  I assume that they were biased.
	
>If you need facts, it is obvious that you should seek and
>read for yourself.  I am not in the business of "testing"
>lenses across the board.

	I did set up lenses on tripods in a controlled setting
	and tested two lines some time ago, with a few
	lenses for each line, using top-end AF bodies for both.
	I have reasons to be suspicious, but you could be right.
	If someone has objective data ... speak up please.
--
Gregory Finn	(310) 822-1511
Information Sciences Institute, Marina Del Rey, CA 90292
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: donl@glass.esd.sgi.com (donl mathis)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: T-Max films
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:20:11 GMT
Reply-To: donl@glass.esd.sgi.com (donl mathis)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA, USA


In article <n0897t@ofa123.fidonet.org>, Rick.Ellis@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
|> On <Aug 31 13:55> Robert Feltman writes:
|> 
|>  RF> I have found T-Max 100 to be as forgiving in HC110 (B) as is Tri-X. The
|>  RF> major difference for me has been a rather short N-1 dev. time.
Otherwise
|>  RF> I have found T-Max 100 to be very controllable.
|> 
|> Could the N-1 time be lengthened with a more dilute solution?

For this application, and especially N-2, I think it's better to
decrease the temperature than increase the dilution.

With proper agitation (i.e. constant and gentle, as in "Jobo") and
rather short times, development still seems to be reasonably even.
Don't panic just because it drops below five minutes, or even four.
It's worth a little testing to see if it's really causing a problem
or not.

- donl mathis at Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, Mountain View, CA
donl@sgi.com

"The purpose of a windowing system is to make your screen as messy as
your desk."
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: hamm@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Craig Hamm)
Subject: Slide indexing ideas(?)
Organization: Ocean Sciences Centre
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:26:48 GMT

	I don't necessarily want the name of a particular piece of
	software here, I would just like to hear suggestions on how to 
	index large numbers of slides.  i.e. cataloging.

	Would you use:    i)   year-month-roll#-frame#
		          ii)  year-month-image#
                          iii) roll#-frame#-year

	etc etc, get the picture ?

	What do YOU do ?

	Is there a 'best' way, that suits most situations most of the time,
	that most people use ?

	Cheers,

-- 
  
    Craig Hamm, Memorial University, | I don't think the letters which appear
    Newfoundland                     | on your letters page are genuine. I 
    DoD #1500,                       | think you just make them all up.  In
    81 Maxim 650                     | fact you probably made this one up
    ------------                     | too.  -J. Clark, Rotherham (Viz comics)

Newsgroups: rec.photo,alt.cd-rom,gnu.misc.discuss,misc.int-property
From: andy@homebase.vistachrome.com (Andy Finkenstadt)
Subject: Re: Time to boycott Photo CD
Reply-To: andy@homebase.vistachrome.com
Organization: Vista-Chrome Incorporated
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:52:53 GMT

ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu (Ajay Shah) writes:
>Kodak wants to tie up the file formats under lock and key.  You can't
>write a program to open their files.  You can't even write a program
>which generates their files.  Don't expect to ever see interfaces

Where did you hear this?  Any CD-ROM player can access the first 
session on a CD.  Some CD-ROM players can access the second through Nth
photo sessions and some will need a PROM upgrade.

>-- 
>Ajay Shah, (213)749-8133, ajayshah@usc.edu

-Andy

-- 
Andrew Finkenstadt       | Vista-Chrome, Inc.   |           andy@GEnie
GEnie Unix Sysop/Manager | The Printing House   |    NIC Handle: AF136
+1 904 222 2639 home     | 1600 Capital Cir SW  |   ...!uunet!rde!andy
+1 904 575 0189 work     | Tallahassee FL 32310 | andy@vistachrome.com
--------->  "Our OS which art in CPU... UNIX be thy name"  <----------
From: hlam@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: NIKON AF Wide Angle Recommendation
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:04:16 EDT
Organization: Univ of Miami IR

Can any one give me advise and/or recommendation on any of the following
Nikon AF wide angle lenses:

      16 mm, 20 mm, 24 mm

I currently own a 28 mm and would like to purchase one of the above.  The 28 mm
has been satisfactory but I would like to cover a wider range without having a
fish eye effect.

Thanks for any reply,

Huntson
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: Robert Drongowski <Robert.Drongowski@cc.umich.edu>
Subject: Inrared Photog + Spider Webs
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 15:58:17 EDT
Organization: Pediatric Surgery, U of Michigan
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b2


Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen)
Subject: Re: Photo-CD - THE FACTS
Organization: Waterloo Engineering Software
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 16:49:04 GMT

> rcoadh@kultarr.co.rmit.oz.AU (Alexander Doktorovich) writes:

>: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>: >Next question: "What is the resolution of the highest resolution image?"
>: >Answer: "3072 X 2048", 24 bit color.  Yeehaaa!!!!!
> 
jay@metran.UUCP (Jay Ts) writes:
> 3072 x 2048 is *great* for a computer, but compared even to the lowly
> 35mm format, it amounts to only 85.33 pixels/mm in the 24mm x 36mm frame.
> Since a "line" is 2 pixels wide (including the space between) this is only
> 42.67 lines/mm.

[ ...and Jay goes on to show that this is really poor resolution compared ]
[ to just about any 35mm film out there.  Not to mention medium format... ]

All right, I won't argue with that.  But I'd argue that it's not the intent
of Photo CD to compete with medium format, or even with high-quality 35mm.
Realistically, what's an acceptable resolution?

  - The increasingly popular 8mm and VHS-C cameras are limited to NTSC (Never
    Twice the Same Colour) resolution, which, as I recall, is somewhere in
    the ballpark of 400x300 pixels, with poor colour reproduction (certainly
    worse than Photo CD's 24-bit colour).  And people are ecstatic about
    their Handicams...

  - What's the resolution *required* to make a good-quality 4x6 print?  I'd
    think Photo CD's 43 l/mm would be enough (although this is a guess on
    my part).  Wouldn't you say that 95% of the point-and-shoot users never
    get any enlargements made?

  - What's the resolution needed for a, say, 8x10 print IN A NEWSPAPER?  The
    current wire photos surely aren't any higher resolution than Photo CD,
    given the transmission methods!

  - Even a magazine photo (for, say, Time or Newsweek) could, I think, cope
    with Photo CD's resolutions, due to the limitations of the reproduction
    process.

And of course those last items are getting to the big benefit of Photo CD:
you can manipulate them on the computer, and do the entire layout online.
And the point-and-shoot user could build a slide show for his TV from his
Photo CD pictures...

No, like I said, I can't see Photo CD *replacing* film for most applications,
but I can certainly see how the resolution and colour are more than suffi-
cient for a large variety of applications.

[ \tom haapanen    "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
[ tomh@wes.on.ca                   "trust the programmer" -- ansi c standard ]
[ waterloo engineering software      "to thine own self be true" -- polonius ]
Newsgroups: rec.photo,alt.cd-rom,gnu.misc.discuss,misc.int-property
From: hasker@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Hasker)
Subject: Re: Time to boycott Photo CD
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:30:45 GMT

jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:

>ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu (Ajay Shah) writes:
>
>>Kodak wants to tie up the file formats under lock and key.  You can't
>>write a program to open their files.  You can't even write a program
>>which generates their files.  Don't expect to ever see interfaces
>>between Photo CD and pbm or TeX.  If you write a neat program which
>>does XXX to a file in Kodak format, you can't give that program to
>>anyone else.
>
>>The only people who can read/write the Photo CD files are commercial
>>vendors who pay Kodak royalties.
>
>As an enthusiastic photographer and user who is waiting on this product 
>with bated breath, I say "who cares?"

Look at what happened with Nintendo.  Nintendo successfully sued people
who decoded the cartridge interface so they could make and sell their own
Nintendo-compatible games.  The result is that the price of Nintendo
games is _much_ higher than it would be if there was legal competition.
Do you really want to go to Kodak for _every_ image manipulation program?

Rob
From: robert@sys.sweden.dg.com (Robert Claeson)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Use Velvia at 32 or 40? (Was: Re: Fuji Sli
Date: 2 Sep 92 07:38:53 GMT
Organization: Data General AB, Akalla, Sweden

In article <253@metran.UUCP>, jay@metran.UUCP (Jay Ts) writes:

> konkkola@jyu.fi (Markku Konkkola) writes:

> : If you process Fuji Velvia according to Fuji standards then you should
> : expose it as 50 ISO-film. But if you process it according to Kodak 
> : standards (as we usually do) you should expose it as 40
> : 
> : E6-process standards are different: Fuji makes more shakes.
> 
> Can you please elaborate on that?  Do you mean that Fuji specifies greater
> agitation?  If so, that would explain a lot...

I checked this with Fuji after I read a note on it in a Swedish photo
magazine, and it's correct: Fuji specifies a heavier agitation for
E-6 that Kodak does, but as far as I understand only for Velvia (I
didn't ask about the other Fujichrome's and they seems to come out
fine, so...).

-- 
------------------------------ END OF MESSAGE ------------------------------
Robert Claeson                Internet: robert@sys.sweden.dg.com
Data General AB                         robert@sys.dg.se
Box 28                             CEO: robert@sys.sweden.dg.com:dg-smtp
S-164 93 KISTA                     Tel: +46 (0)8-92 55 00
Sweden                             Fax: +46 (0)8-751 36 22
From: koonj@hpsgl1.sgp.hp.com (Koon-Jan LIM)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 05:02:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Canon 300/F4 USM ...WOW!
Organization: Asia Peripherals Division, HP Singapore
Newsgroups: rec.photo

In rec.photo, IO80861@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Damon Kiesow) writes:


     I just got this lens today after a summer of trying. And it was
     worth the wait. I have only put one roll of film through it but
     all I can say is that it the fastest, quietest 300 I have used.
       I picked it up at Gould Trading in NYC for $819. That was after
     I originally ordered it from Executive Photo for almost $900. The
     problem was Exec put me on backorder, and every time I called they
     said "2 weeks." After a month and a half I cancelled the order,
     waited TWO WEEKS for my card to clear and reordered from Gould.
     The lens came in TWO DAYS later. Lesson: I will not order from
     Executive again if I can avoid it. I should have known better.

     Damon Kiesow IO80861@Maine / 71131,1635 /
     207-581-3059 - The Maine Campus - The UMaine Newspaper Since 1875



     ***************************************************************


     I experienced the same problem with Executive. They keep
     giving empty promises. 
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: mkuhn@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Martin W Kuhn)
Subject: Re: Canon FTb shutter problem - advise?
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 14:58:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.061606.1246@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> davids@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (David Petrie Stoutamire) writes:
>I have an old Canon FTb dug out of the garage.  It seems to be working
>fine with the exception of an intermittent problem that occurs with fast
>shutter speeds, where part of the right field is unexposed.  The exact
(stuff deleted)
>The shutter moves from right to left (looking from back of camera).
>This means that the first shutter piece - the one opening the film to
>exposure - must be slow; is this correct?
Actually, it is probably the second curtain that is getting stuck and not
"falling back" behind properly to expose the film.  You've got the right
idea though.

>This would seem to be the
>sort of thing I would try to fix by applying lubrication.  I would

NoNoNoNoNoNoNo!!! and No!  Don't try to fix focal plane shutters unless
you really know what you are doing!!!  You will very very likely cause
much more harm than good.  Getting to the shutter mechanisim itself will
be difficult enough, and even if you do that without messing something else
up, applying oil indiscrimitely to a shutter will likely cause it to get
even more stuck than it is now!  
What has probably happened is the lubricant has gotten stiff from years
of disuse.  Try exercising the shutter for a good while and see if that
loosens it up.  (fire the shutter in rapid succession for several minutes,
let it rest for a while, and repeat this cycle several times.)  This method
doesn't always work (and sometimes it helps only temporarily) but you
have much less risk of damaging anything.   Be sure to try all the speeds
while exercising it, including the ones that work properly.

Anyway, don't go messing around with focal plane shutters; I know of no
simple repairs one can do with them.  (there are some reasonably simple
fixes for certain leaf-shutter problems if you are fairly handy, but
I won't get into that now)

If exercising doesn't help, you can take it to your local camera store; it
probably just needs a CLA  (clean-lube-adjust) which will cost around
$50- $100.  Otherwise, just use the camera at the slower speeds; you should
still have enough range for general photography.

Hope this helps, 
                 -- Marty
From: finn@isi.edu (Greg Finn)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: A FAQ
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:25:32 GMT
Reply-To: finn@dalek.isi.edu (Greg Finn)
Distribution: usa
Organization: USC-Information Sciences Institute

In article <1992Aug31.200909.9909@PacBell.COM> jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria) writes:

>Oops....I said in my earlier post if you held the both cameras
>you would notice the difference immediately. <That Canon's AF is faster
>than Nikon's>.

	Really?  An F4 has a large hi-torque AF motor.  Larger than is
reasonable to put in non-telephoto lenses.  Are you sure?  You tested
equivalent lenses across the lens range?  The auto-focusing range for
the lenses was equivalent?  If you test a macro-capable against a
standard lens of the same focal length ... guess which has a longer
focus throw?


--
Gregory Finn	(310) 822-1511
Information Sciences Institute, Marina Del Rey, CA 90292
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: robert@sys.sweden.dg.com (Robert Claeson)
Subject: Re: Fuji Slide Film or Pushing Kodachrome
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 12:50:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Data General AB, Akalla, Sweden

In article <244@metran.UUCP>, jay@metran.UUCP (Jay Ts) writes:

> As it happens, I've tried EPP on two occasions, and both times I was
> disappointed with the colors.  I guess that shows how subjective this
> topic is; I know a lot of professionals use EPP and swear by it.  It makes
> me feel very strange!  Does anyone else feel this way about EPP?

No. I happen to like it a lot. But color rendition and contrast really
is a very subjective thing. I even know people who think that Kodachrome,
with its green skies and dead foliage, is the best film around ;-)

-- 
------------------------------ END OF MESSAGE ------------------------------
Robert Claeson                Internet: robert@sys.sweden.dg.com
Data General AB                         robert@sys.dg.se
Box 28                             CEO: robert@sys.sweden.dg.com:dg-smtp
S-164 93 KISTA                     Tel: +46 (0)8-92 55 00
Sweden                             Fax: +46 (0)8-751 36 22
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: media permanence (was Re: photo-developing, specifically nudes)
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:23:53 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

smwall@aol.com (Steve Wall) wrote:
>> So here's a question for you:  If I make a print from a Photo CD on my
>> (hypothetical :-() laser printer, how long will that last?
> Wait and see...All the fading problems in chromogenic prints don't
> necessarily apply to Dye Sublimation prints from Photo CD.

Is there any reason why dye sublimation has to be tied to the Photo CD
technology?  Why not a dye-sublimation print processor with direct slide
or negative input, bypassing the protracted intermediate step of mastering
a CD?

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: fjcppr@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Canon F-1 Questions
Reply-To: fjcppr@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 02:03:39 GMT

If you want a perfect lightweight manual focus professional camera to 
replace your F1, get an Olympus OM-4t. There is no better camera. It has
the simplest user interface, and the best spot metering system on the 
market. The only weakness is that it isn't autofocus.

Frank Cost
From: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Seek recommendations for 35mm AF camera.
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:40:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: clark.1992Aug25.204023.25036
Distribution: usa
Organization: Clark College, Vancouver, Wa.  USA

In article <1992Aug25.194853.2828@sj.nec.com> yi@tdd.sj.nec.com (Yi Zhang  x2912) writes:
>
>At the price of around $360, there are CANON EOS-10S, EOS-ELAN, 
>NIKON-6006, Minolta-7000i (3xi is much cheaper). Any comments on these models?

The best of the lot are either the CANON EOS-10S or EOS-ELAN, I like the ELAN
better, even though the 10s is supposed to be the higher end camera.

Gary

-- 
-----
Gary Snow
uunet!clark!gsnow  or  gsnow@clark.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Which Prof.  35mm camera had plastic body parts.
From: glporter@zeus.calpoly.edu (Glen Porter)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 02:24:28 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

In article <13248@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM writes:
>>BTW, the A-1 had Plastic ( not even polycarbonate ) Body pieces.  Was it ever a 
>>problem with them???  I don't think so - at least it was never mentioned in any
>>of the Photo Mags.
>
>I'm confused... isn't "polycarbonate" just another polymer derivative?  IE, isn't
>"polycarbonate" used by camera marketeers to avoid saying "plastic?"

It can be considered plastic, but there is a drastic difference in the 
durability of different plastics - some crack in the sun, and some survive on 
the moon!  Polycarbonate is about the best choice for cameras.

-glen


glporter@hebe.calpoly.edu                  (Glen Porter)     *
California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo     *
Network Administration - Technician        (805)756-1295     *
Electronic Engineering and Physics                  Gal 2:16 *
                                                                         / |
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<><                   o                                 /     O    \ \ 
   <><    <><       o    ______          ______        <            | | \
                  o _  _(_||___)________/___             v v v v\   | |  |
	 <><      O(_)(       o  ______/    \                    |  | | /
    <><             ^ `/------o-'            \           v v v v/  / /
               D|_|___/                                    \__________________
 
The Food Chain at work . . . . . .  Stay behind your bubbles  . .
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: lelebrun@eos.ncsu.edu (LOUIS E LEBRUN)
Subject: Hasselblad For Sale
Originator: lelebrun@c10020-319mn.ce.ncsu.edu
Keywords: Hassleblad
Reply-To: lelebrun@eos.ncsu.edu (LOUIS E LEBRUN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:06:25 GMT


To all:

I have the following Hasselblad equipment that I would like to sell:

	500cm Chrome Body
	80/2.8 CF w/hood
	A-12 Chrome Back
	Wide Strap
	
	$1850 obo

The above equipment is all near mint with the exception of the hood.
It has been used sparingly, and shows no sign of use.

I am returning to school and need the money.

PLEASE RESPOND TO:

	Louis E LeBrun IV
	4012 Ingram Drive
	Raleigh, NC 27604
	(919)872-2785

	E-Mail:
	lelebrun@eos.ncsu.edu