From: stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU ()
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: The Extent of Antigay Discrimination in CA Was (Re: UPI: Wilson signs gay employment rights bill)
Date: 1 Oct 1992 19:40:06 GMT
Organization: Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: orchid.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Oct1.162355.1427@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
>In article <1ae2elINNlq4@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU () writes:
>    >>This is really about suppressing free speech.
>    >>
>    >How did you derive this conclusion given the premises you
>    >submitted. Free Speech is an area of great ambiguity. IMHO no
>    >one, lesser than a god who controls everything, is allowed to
>    >tell anyone else that they are evil or wrong or immoral...
>    >they may as a function of rights state their discontent with
>    >a situation or dislike of situation via channels and language
>    >that do not degrade.
>
>I believe that you are sincere about the above paragrapgh. I find it
>morally horrible -- on the par of listening to a NAZI speech.

Hmm- interesting, morally horrible, that is an interesting use of words.

>
>You are NOT a god, and you may believe as you like, just as a NAZI
>may believe as they like, BUT I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO TELL ANYONE
>ELSE THAT THEY ARE EVIL, WRONG, AND IMMORAL.

You must have misread my above statement- I never said I was a god.
Rights are arrangeable according to what a society wants... there is 
no given right for you to degrade anyone as to their beliefs, manners,
lifestyle or whatever... you may as a society make rules and laws that
govern some of those things that a majority of people agree are not
conducive to a well functioning society.  

You have some real hang up about Nazi's and coercion and blah blah blah,
I remain in my opinion that people may disagree and state their discontent
with a situation, or with the beliefs of individuals, but I do not feel
that you or anyone has the 'right' to be degrading, demmoralizing to anyone,
just as you tend to do in your messages and writings on the newsgroups.

The first steps in a civilized society is to work towards a goal of 
mutual agree and disagree that does not include mental harrying or persecusion
of an individual or even a group of individuals.  The process is to state
your complaints, concerns and dislikes about concepts and beliefs and then
to work towards a mutually beneficial system.

It appears that in your  mind one attempts to 'coerce' (favorite word) other
people into accepting that you have this and that right, then if they don't 
agree, then you play the FOA game.


>
>You, if you truly hold these beliefs, are either a young and ignorant
>student at one of our higher institutions of intellectual
>butchery, or you are evil, wrong, immoral, AND arrogant.

Yes yes I heard all of this before... hard for you judge, isn't it, what
or who I am.  So the common response is; you are young ignorant, or evil
bad immoral and arrogant.

I would tend to say that you are the one  exhibits arrogances, thinking
that you have been granted every 'right' to do as you please and say as
you please.

So therefore you  would support anyone who wished to yell 'Fire'
in a crowded place, even though that might case a condition where
people get injured, maybe even killed... I guess that is just alright
becuae we wouldn't want to curtail your all or nothing rights.
 
>
>In other words, take your Politically Correct fascist little ideas
>and ....
>
>
Ohh! getting nasty now aren't we??

>Jawohl mein Commanddant -- in order to be diverse und tolerant,
>ve must suppress all non-Aryan, OOPSS, I mean non-Politically Ideas.
>(boot heel click and stiff arm salute, or is that Earth shoes and
>peace sign ...)
>

Earth shoes and peace sign- ho ho, this is very trite and lacks any
imagination.  And I will exercise my right to say, that I think you 
need to improve somewhat on your intellectual conversing, by attempting
to  write sometime originally, rather than regorging constantly, everything
you hear on some right wing program.
>
>-- 
>phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)
>
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:49494 alt.politics.perot:1849 alt.politics.elections:15132