HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: buzz@apple.com. (Steve Bollinger)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: What about Star Trek???
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:25:39 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.pinball
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <1992Sep25.051016.21006@colorado.edu>,
drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt) wrote:
> 
> IMHO, it's the worst pinball machine I've played in the last five 
> years.  Very typical of Data East's games, with shallow rules, 
> buggy software, poor sound, etc.  
> 
> You said it yourself, it's easy to play.  Too easy.  Basically, 
> to play star trek, you slam balls into the center thing until you
> get something interesting or a replay. Repeat until boredom 
> sets in.
> 
> The drop targets are it's only redeeming feature.
> 
> The software leaves a lot to be desired.  For instance, I've done 
> a death kickup after a side drain, and had the game think for a 
> few seconds, and then die.

I never had that happen, but I noticed that DE was using the outlanes to
indicate ball over. When you roll over the outlane starts counting your
bonus
up (or was that the outhole kicker). In a Williams, they use the outlanes
for
points and the outhole kicker for a sound effect at the most. The end of
the
ball is signified by the trough sensors. This is the smartest thing to do
in
my opinion. I think Data East was just trying to increase play rate (i.e
quarters) for the sake of operators and messed themselves up.

On the whole, Star Trek is a really awful machine. Hitting the crystals is
ridiculous. Some are easy, some you only get through spots. And the payoff
for
multiball is poor. It just isn't any fun. There's a playfield hole on the
top
left below the transporter which flashes CONSTANTLY, but I can't figure out
what the heck it does. It looks important, but does nothing visible. I've
seen
two machines like this, so I don't think its a mechanical failure. The
flashing
light says "light crystals", I think.
Finally, the kickout on the upper right is just plain the worst kickout
I've
ever seen. It was placed poorly, and as it wears some will kick
erratically.
your best hope is that it will kick super soft, where it just trickles down
to
the right triangle slingshot. But usually it just kicks the ball down
between
the flippers. DE even knew this, since sometimes it will give you another
ball
when this happens (like "don't move" from T2). Frankly, they just should
have
reaimed the kickout instead.

> Many machines have neat gimmicks.  Like the mix master 
> on Dr. Dude, the HSII super charger, etc.  Star Trek has 
> the transporter, where it wavers a little and has a "Transport 
> now" sight with arrows directing your attention to it.  On 
> other games, the gimmick is more of a part of play - ie 
> Thing taking a ball to lock it for multi ball.  On star trek,
> it's merely a distraction that detracts from the game.

Agreed, it wears thin fast.

-Steve
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen)
Subject: Re: How good is Bonzai Run?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:57:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.185304.7037@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>, rls@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (richard.l.schieve) writes:

> Gaming people that know me would probably describe me as a video
> addict that has recently discoverred pinball and it's true.  While

Yep, Rick, that's exactly how I've presented your name to pin friends...

> be too smug out there as I have corrupted a few "pinheads" ;-) too
> (I sold Mike Knudsen his first video)!

But still so far my *last* video.  My son and I love it, but it's the
only vid I ever felt about the way I did for HIGH SPEED.
(I just had to jump in and protect my reputation :-)

> Anyway, I'm considerring a Bonzai Run.  It's in decent shape
> probably only needing the usual flipper tune-ups, etc.  I'm curious
> what others think of Bonzai run?  I see that no one in the PAPS
> list has one but I understand that not a lot were made.

I'd say it's a great game, from what I've heard and my own limited
experience.  Damned tuff on the upper playfield (read "challenging").
Main playfield is typical Williams -- lots of fun long shots.

For collectors, it's the only machine of its kind -- talk about
backglass animation, how about a 4-flipper pingame with ball locks?
You could trash the main cabinet and legs and still have a hell
of a game :-)

Last I heard these were selling in the high 'teens at least.
Glad to help you, uh, test it out -- mike k
-- 
	"I don't think so, Al"
  Programmers Do It on paper.  So do puppies.
	knudsen@iexist.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: yyz@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (donald.w.coons)
Subject: Re: What are Solid State Flippers
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:18:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.133518.20568@e2big.mko.dec.com> patenaude@nhtima.enet.dec.com (Roger Patenaude) writes:
>
>
>FWIW. List of all Data East pins (chronological order) and no I don't have
>time to type in Williams/Bally/Gottlieb ;^)
>
>	Laser Wars
>	Secret Service
>	Torpedo Alley
>	Time Machine
>	Playboy
>	ABC M.N. Football
>	Robocop
>	Phantom Of The Opera
>	Back To The Future
>	The Simpsons
>	Checkpoint
>	Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
>	Batman
>	Star Trek
>	Hook
>	Lethal Weapon 3
>
>--

Add Star Wars and Rocky And Bullwinkle to this list those are the next 2
Data East machines.

Don Coons
dwc@wnb3b2.att.com
From: dig@pro-cynosure.cts.com (Doug Granzow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: New FAQ?  (Was Re: Solid State Flippers)
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:51:31 GMT
Organization: ProLine [pro-cynosure]

bcasper@eos.ncsu.edu (Brian Casper) writes:

>Not exactly...  To understand the need for a SS flipper, let me first explain
>for the millionth time how a regular flipper works.

I think it's time to add another part to the pinball FAQ which answers
questions more geared toward the casual player. Some questions that *I* think
should be answered in the FAQ are:

What is the history Williams/Bally/Midway? Data East? 

What are solid state flippers and how are they different from other flippers?

How does tilt work and why are some machines more sensitive than others? (And
what is a slam tilt?)

What is the difference between "Credits 0" and "Credits 0."?

Is there a pinball FTP site? (Since there now is.)

I was playing a machine when all of the sudden, cows appeared on the
dot-matrix display. Why?

What is some of the terminology relating to pinball machines?  (Parts of the
machine such as slingshots and outlanes, types of shots like slap save, etc.)

How can I become a better pinball player?

These are some topics that I see come up a lot here in rec.games.pinball. 
I'd be willing to compile the answers if noone else wants to, but I can't
answer them all myself.  What do you think?

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: musjndx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Jonathan N. Deitch)
Subject: Request : Pinball in Atlanta, Georgia
Summary: Where's pinball in Atlanta ?
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:04:44 GMT

Hi y'all ...

I'm looking for pinball places in Atlanta ... arcades, bars, putt-putt
golf places ... anything.

Specifically, I'm looking for TAF, Hurricane, Dr. Who (if it's here) and
any other recent, decent games.  In good repair.

Please send me email to either address and I'll post a summary. 

- Jonathan

musjndx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu
jdeitch@gisatl.fidonet.org

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: yyz@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (donald.w.coons)
Subject: Re: Strange Pinball (was Re: HUGE pinball)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:29:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.104712.761@altair.selu.edu> pcs$1610@altair.selu.edu writes:
>In article <qq34RB2w164w@jwt.UUCP>, bbs-garfield@jwt.UUCP (David Eison) writes:
>> pcs$1610@altair.selu.edu writes:
>> 
>
>Well, not as annoying as downright _strange_. Also, the playfield was
>curved, like ripples in the ocean, adding to the oddness (esp. since you 
>can't see the curves due to the playfield color :)
>
This definitely sounds like Stern's Orbitor 1 that came out in 1982, I 
have never seen one but your descriptions fits the stories I have heard.

Don Coons
dwc@wnb3b2.att.com
From: x92mys@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject:  Re: Cheapest!! (Was Re: Most expensive pla
Date: 28 Sep 92 22:50:12 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <lbseu8INNcpb@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, jrt@gap.Eng.Sun.COM (Joel Tornatore) writes:
> 
> in my last posting on this subject, I said:
>      So if you pumped $2.00 into your favorite T2 machine in
>      less than 90 minutes, you'd save $.05 by playing at Charlies......
> 
> Before I get flamed for my math error, let me correct it. You would
> spend $1.75 + 8*(0.05) = $2.15, spending $0.15 more. If you spend
> $2.25 on your fave T2, THEN you'd save $0.05 at Charlies.
> 
> So Sorry!
> 
> joel


Hey joel . . . Not to be "Nit-Pickey", but if I (referring to everywhere I pump
quarters into pins) were to play my favorite T2 machine, I would only be able
to play 6 games (with one quarter stuck in a machine) for $2.25.  If I were to
play eight games as per your comparasin, it would cost me $2.75 (if there are
any questions, refer to other articles about current pricing).  Therefor, I
would save $.60.  Again, I don't mean to grind it in your face.  I only felt
the urge to go into in depth problem solving mode, and after all my work, it
would be a waste if noone knew.

^^ MYS ^^^^^

"There's always room at Williams BENCH."


Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: rla@netcom.com (Robert Armstrong)
Subject: Pinball games for Nintendo or Sega ??
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 05:01:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

  Are there any pinball games for "home entertainment" boxes
like Sega or Nintendo ?  I haven't seen any at the stores,
but maybe I'm just not visiting the right stores...

  I have seen the Pinball Jam game for the Lynx.  It's a fine game,
but on the wrong hardware.

Thanks,
Bob Armstrong

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: david.hoisve@uuserv.cc.utah.edu
Subject: How large is the average pin?
Organization: The University of Utah
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 05:58:01 GMT

I'm considering adding a game room to my house.  

I need to find space for a pool table, darts, game table, and at least TWO 
pinball machines.  Thus the question -- how large is the average pinball 
machine?  How much space should I allow on the sides, and in front?  

Thanks, in advance...

-- Dave.
David Hoisve
HOISVE@CC.UTAH.EDU

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: yyz@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (donald.w.coons)
Subject: Re: HUGE pinball
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:15:07 GMT

In article <lcmb0jINN8h3@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> jrt@Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>
>Sometime around 1980 I used to frequent an arcade in
>Old Sacramento called Time Zone. At one point they had
>a huge pinball machine. I believe it was made by Atari,
>and I think it was called Superman.
>
The game was called Hercules, I forgot who it was made by it could be
Atari, they were in the business at the time.

>It was big. The pinball was not metal, but was about the
>size of a baseball. The machine was probably 12 feet long,
>and the backglass maybe 4 or 5 feet tall, reaching at least
>8 feet from the ground. The play was slow, and it was not
>very exciting. Very simple rules. Digital scoreboard, however.
>
>Well, I was about 14 years old and probably have an
>exagerrated memory.

Nope your memory is not exagerrated I played it about 6 months ago, and your
description of it is pretty good.

>Does anyone remember this game? I seem to think they
>made a different huge game, too. Where did they end up?
>It's not the sort of thing that would fit well into a normal
>house, nor would you want it for much beyond the novelty
>of its size.

Here in Chicagoland I know a place that is selling one, $1200 takes it in
case anyone is interested.

Don Coons
dwc@wnb3b2.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: musjndx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Jonathan N. Deitch)
Subject: Re: T2 question (Was: huh?)
Organization: Georgia State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:26:49 GMT

chris1@uiuc.edu (Chris Trimble) writes:

>Stephen Jonke writes
>     
>     There's a drop target under the skull!!!???  That explains a LOT (why the
>     ball doesn't always get locked in there)!  What makes it pop back up?

>It will pop up after you lock one ball in there (of course, if you're lucky /
>fast enough, you can sometimes lock two in the skull and get the automatic
>shot at the super jackpot .. even if it goes into "Search Mode"!). Sometimes
>the drop target pops up and forces you to hit the skull twice to get the
>ball up in there (for example, the normal Super Jackpot shot).

It's also infamous for breaking ... and getting stuck halfway down.  That's
happened on two different machines I've played.  And anyone who's tried to
replace a drop target knows how hard *that* process is ...

The problem is that shots into the skull have so much momentum that the ball
plows right through a raised drop target, damaging the mechanism.

It's real nice, though, when it's down, because you can shoot two or even three
balls into the skull before the target pops back up.

- Jonathan

jdeitch@gisatl.fidonet.org
musjndx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sigma@picasso.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin)
Subject: Re: The Getaway (Was: Re: What about Star Trek???)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 18:03:02 GMT

gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Red Mountain) writes:
>Comments on The Getaway? Who loves it? Who hates it? And why?

I've decided I hate it.  And not just because I can't find one that's
decently setup, although that's part of it.  It's extremely difficult to
setup properly - that's one problem.  The flippers have to be in very good
shape to make reliable orbit and ramp and tunnel shots.  Things are sort of
dull right in the middle of the playfield.  The ramp likes to slam down on
top of balls during multiball, making Jackpots impossible - or at least
that's always been my problem.

But the worst is the left drain.  Putting a kickback there is just a lame
excuse to have a gaping left scoop.  It really doesn't mean anything, since
the default setting (I believe) is to not relight the kickback every ball.
At least LW3 offers you that.

LW3 is the best new game I've played since TAF.  I hate to admit it.  BTW,
can anyone tell me what's awarded on the ramp past 40 or so shots?  And was
anyone surprised to discovered what the Super Stunt Spectacular awards
(I wasn't)?

Of course, I'm still looking for Fish Tales.
-- 
Kevin Martin
sigma@ipl.rpi.edu
"We're gonna need another Timmy!"
From: jrr@jukes.eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (John Robertson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Stuck balls and tilting
Date: 27 Sep 92 13:09:16 GMT
Organization: John's Jukes BBS, Vancouver, BC (604) 872-2010


 To: All
in message...
 RWMI> From: robert@monster.saic.com (Robert W Mangum II)
 RWMI> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 15:47:28 GMT
 RWMI> Organization: SAIC, McLean, VA
 RWMI> Message-ID: <1992Sep25.154728.26366@monster.saic.com>
writes;
 RWMI> I recently cleaned my F-14.  While cleaning the two kill targets in the
 RWMI> center of the playfield, I noticed this foam behind 
 RWMI> them that was falling apart.

Actually the foam is there for another purpose too, to keep the targets
from breaking off. If you press on the targets where the ball would, you
will see how far back they can go, this will eventually break. The foam
reinforces the target. Replace it with a heavy grade of wheather stripping
usually the black stuff cut into a strip 1/2" X 1/4" works fine.
Chow...

--  
 jrr@jukes.eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca     John Robertson
-->>regular Mail<<-- not UPS!! 
 John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., 
 Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
  Old pinballers never die, they just flip out.
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: TAF
From: Dennis.Clark@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Dennis Clark)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:04:47 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.
X-Mailer: mail-news 4.0


Could anyone please email me any compilations to do about TAF pinball
game.

   Thanx


Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: TXK025@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Eddie Chandler)
Subject: Questions
Organization: Motorola
Date: 4 Oct 1992 06:59:40 CDT

Hi there!
After reading through your group for the last week or so,
and picking up some interesting info., I went out yesterday
to our local pubs & arcade which have : -
Batman, LW3, TAF, Hook, HSII & T2

Unfortunately, these are ALL in various states of disrepair!....
but I didn't notice a 'Credits 0.' message on the display.
Is this particular to one manufacturer e.g. Williams

In the worst cases, the flippers were 'mushy', the table at
an odd angle, balls getting stuck & bumpers 'out-of-control'
(All these were on LW3 & Batman!)

So, my questions are : -
1) Can a dodgy pinball machine be spotted JUST by looking?
2) Should a 'manic' bumper be recognised during the self-test
   and registered?
   (By 'manic' I mean that the bumper keeps on clicking away,
    and increasing the score - which is a pain if, as on LW3,
    you lose the ball quickly & it gives you a 'second chance')
3) How can you check to see if the machine is at a reasonable
   angle/is level, and what is the CORRECT angle?

Another couple of things that really niggle me are that
the operators disable the extra ball facility
(On my local LW3, you had to get 3 ramps and shoot '1' for
 an extra ball - but not any more!!!!)
AND ALSO, they set the game up as only having THREE balls
- what a swizz!!!

I look forward to reading your replies.
From: dig@pro-cynosure.cts.com (Doug Granzow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: ramblings on older games
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:09:38 GMT
Organization: ProLine [pro-cynosure]

kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keith Johnson) writes:

>I know what you mean about the backhand!  I don't know how many times I've
>tried it (too many!), but I swear it must be possible to hit an open vault on
>TAF with the right flipper.  I've done it a couple of times, but that was when
>the ball was moving and I just happened to get lucky, basically.  The question
>is whether or not it's possible on an average TAF to get that shot when the
>ball is caught on the flipper...  I don't think I've done it yet.

I can regularly get the open vault from the right flipper by bouncing the
ball off of the Cousin It targets.

BTW, I have occasionally earned a three way bonus by 1) Making the Advance
"X" shot, 2) Shooting the ramp from the top flipper, and 3) Making the 5x
Swamp shot.  Today, I got a three way bonus after shot #2. (I was so
surprised I was unable to make shot #3 :)  So, what did I do before making
the Advance X shot to earn a three way combo?  And what do I get for a 4-way?

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: patenaude@nhtima.enet.dec.com (Roger Patenaude)
Subject: Re: What are Solid State Flippers
Reply-To: patenaude@nhtima.enet.dec.com (Roger Patenaude)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 13:35:18 GMT



Ad-hoc list of types of flippers used....

Williams last "parallel" was T2
Williams first "solid state" was TAF

Data East last "parallel" was Torpedo Alley
Date East first "solid state" was Time Machine


FWIW. List of all Data East pins (chronological order) and no I don't have
time to type in Williams/Bally/Gottlieb ;^)

	Laser Wars
	Secret Service
	Torpedo Alley
	Time Machine
	Playboy
	ABC M.N. Football
	Robocop
	Phantom Of The Opera
	Back To The Future
	The Simpsons
	Checkpoint
	Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
	Batman
	Star Trek
	Hook
	Lethal Weapon 3

--
__

    |\/\/\/|                        Roger Patenaude
    |      |                        Pinball Pathologist
    |      |                        "Specializing in Autopsies of Dead Pins"
    | (.)(.)                       
    C      _)      /------------\  
    |  ,___|    ---| Don't Have |  
    |    /         | A Cow Man! |  
    /---\          \____________/
From: rogue@cellar.org (Rachel McGregor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Fish Tales, Black Rose finally reach PHL
Date: 27 Sep 92 13:39:59 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

I got to play Fish Tales last week in the Supercade at 13th and Chestnut
Streets in Center City.  It's an extremely fun and humorous game - I found
myself laughing almost as hard at the sound effects as I did the first time
I played TAF.

Playfield values are surprisingly low.  Most of my points came out of
bonuses, even before the easy-to-earn multipliers.  (One instance was a 2.2
million bonus, multiplied 4x, and then held.)

Unfortunately, this one won't get onto my heavy-play rotation anytime soon. 
The minor reason for this is because I don't get into town as often as I
would have to to play.  The major reason is that the game is priced at 50c
PER PLAY, not 3/dollar, and I ain't that rich even if I am that prone to
addiction.


Black Rose hasn't made it into any arcades yet that I have seen, but TNT
Amusements, a local home/commercial distributor started getting them in this
month.  Hopefully, I'll see one installed where I can get my hands on it
before November.

           
    Rachel McGregor (rogue@cellar.org)  research contractor, modem junkie
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 The Cellar BBS: 215/654-9184: quickly becoming the Net's most infamous site
 If you don't believe that, look for rogue, darling, richh, techie, or revpk
From: overturf@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Dallas Overturf)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: What about Star Trek???
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:49:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: transfer.6881
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <257@maxx.UUCP> tyager@maxx.UUCP (Tom Yager) writes:
>In article <1992Sep25.113913.20203@kth.se>, d91-jal@dront.nada.kth.se (Johan Almen) writes:
>> No. Star Trek does not compare to T2, largely due to Data East SS flippers
>> and DE software.
>
>What a glorious thing it will be to watch the great red herring, the solid-
>state flipper, die as an issue in my lifetime. TAF ushered SS flippers into
>the W/B line, and they're staying. Look for the lightening bolt designs on
>the flipper tops.
>
>SS flippers last longer, require less maintenance, and are in all ways
>technically better than the old mechanical jobs.

Tom you are obviously mistaken about them being in all ways technically
better.  They are in theory, however I've yet to see any pin that has
flippers that can be controlled as well as the old style flippers.
Admittedly for now the seem to be working longer than the old non-SS
flippers.  The design however is still a bit off.  Also as far as DE
flippers go (and I do like DE games) they ought to fix one thing before
they start fixing the next.  Their flippers are not real bad but it
is obvious to me that the design still needs work.  As far as WMS
flippers go; they are good; but both DE and WMS took away some
control when they went SS.


>If I were feeling nasty,
>I'd say something like "Williams' new flipper feel is courtesy of Data East."
>But that's not my style. I get enough hate mail from Williams bigots as it
>is.

	Yes you could; and you'd look like a fool had you said it.
	DE was first with SS flippers I grant them that.
	However WMS flippers certainly in no way shape or form feel
	at all like any flipper on a DE game that I have played to date.

	DE has had plenty of time to clean up their act on flippers and
	has not done so last I knew.  Hell I used to defend them here
	on the point that they were the little guy.  But with over
	a year gone by and the left flipper still moves when I
	flip the right flipper on ever single game I have seen;
	there is no more defending that position.  Innovative they
	are most certainly; but they "just don't get it" that people
	want a clean crisp flipper with not interference from anything
	else such as the other flipper.

>(ty)
>
>-- 
>Tom Yager, BYTE Multimedia Lab Director
>           Author, Addison-Wesley UNIX programming book (Summer, 1991)
>           Author, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich multimedia book (Fall, 1992)
>           decvax!maxx!tyager, maxx!tyager@bytepb.byte.com



		Regards,	Dallas...