HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:18:13 GMT



In article <2404@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:
>zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo) writes:
>
>>I can't understand this completely. For me, a war-hate person, many 
>>Chineses and Koreans still hate Japanese, for the simple reason that
>>the lies are continuing floating in Japanese history books. 
>
>Sorry, but I don't see the connection. 
>
>From what people have told me, yes, the history in Japanese books is
>pretty 'creative'. But why does that lead you to hate them? Why do
>you care? Why do you spend any time trying to stop people from
>telling what you believe to be the truth, why not just tell it like
>you think it is? 

I simply stated a fact. Whether it is reasonable or not is another issue.
After I had met some kind Japneses, do I think it is reasonable to hate all 
of them?

>> We see no
>>honesty in doing this, but potential threats. It is better to be prpared 
>>than to be sorry again. Once I came across a Japanese girl who absentmindly
>>said that Manchuria STILL should be Japanese. A Japanese history book even
>>went so far as to say "the (Japanese) troops came to the capital (Nanking), 
>>because they were defeated." I think this sorta thing is the most important 
>>cause that induces the bad feeling.
>
>It sounds like you are letting Japan write *your* history books. Could
>the bad feeling be coming from your laziness or whatever it is that
>is stopping you from writing your own?

I have read a lot of your recent stuffs. You reasonings gave me the 
impressions that the blame should goe to the victims. I simply can't get it.

>>The apology is not the real aim. The history books should tell people the
>>truth. For many Chineses and Koreans, the apology does make difference. Many 
>>reasonable people are afraid of the kind of things, happening in the 
>>ex-Sov republics and Yugoslavokia (?), will happen again to us. The war
>>is over, it is unfair to revenge young generations for the past. The really 
>>important thing is to learn something from it. Covering the crimes can't lead 
>>us to this goal.
>
>Why not assume a worst case scenario and consider the possiblity
>that Japan has learned nothing except that it has to create it's
>empire some other way. What are you going to do about it other than
>complain that Japan should change to make your life easy for you?

From you reasoning, I now understand that we chinese and Koreans must
be well prepared for not being sorry again. The reason is well founded:
many people in Japan are still deceived and misunderstandings about the 
war is till there.

Are you alright, Mr. McLane?
From: asano@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ASANO Yoshiteru)
Subject: Re: New Year's Eve in Japan
Keywords: New Year's Eve
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:20:08 GMT

Here are some places you can see a lot of people gathering to wait the New
Year's Day to come.
  Shinto shrines and temples: Those people for 'hatsu-mode'
  Tokyo Disneyland: Fireworks!
  Any downtown area: People just drink too much
That's about it.
    y.a.
From: mike@neopath.wa.com (Mike Rosenlof)
Subject: Re: Have some cash
Organization: NeoPath
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:17:42 GMT

In article <oo6kebo@fido.asd.sgi.com> jice@echo.asd.sgi.com (John Eisenman) writes:
>
>In Japan I exchanged my US traveler's checks for yen.  I did this at
>a bank.  The exchange rate for traveler's checks was much lower
>(at least 8 yen/dollar) than the exchange rate for cash, and even
>that was not very good.
>

What bank did you use? This is exactly opposite my experience - in several
different areas.

I do agree with Mr Eisenman's later statement that the best rate he got was
for credit card transactions - it usually is very close to the market rate,
but I tend to stay and eat in inexpensive places that don't take credit
cards..

mike
mike@neopath.wa.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
	<SMITTIE.92Aug19095225@lark.csulb.edu>
	<1992Aug20.214534.18096@news.iastate.edu>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:05:57 GMT

>Yet you should understand that some hatred is caused not really by teaching,
>but by the dishonesty of the Japanese government.

Unless some of the netters here are much older than I think, no one here has
any first hand knowledge of what happened in Nanking. That is, no one
participating here was at Nanking. Yet many here have very emotional feelings
about Nanking. That response to Nanking was taught. I am not suggesting that
someone told about what happened at Nanking and then told you to hate the
Japanese for it. The lessons in hatred come in through implication. Much the
same way racist attitudes are taught in some areas of the US.

smittie

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie | If all of us were as smart as we think we are the
smittie@beach.csulb.edu |  current world problems would be yesterday's news.
________________________|___________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Singapore and Yamamoto
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:36:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.153324.2606@island.COM> fester@etorofu.island.COM () writes:
>To Mr Jim Breen;
>
>Regards our recent discussion on the death of Yamamoto and the Fall of 
>Singapore:

>From _2142 Days of War_, p 209: There were 51 Hurricanes at Singapore. They
>were flown there from Libya immediately after Pearl Harbor, and were still
>equipped with their desert filters over the air inlets. The first Japanese
>raid on Singapore resulted in the loss of 9 of the 10 unescorted Bettys. The
>second raid was escorted with Hurricanes, and 17 of the Hawker's aircraft 
>were shot down.               ^^^^^^^^^^

Oops, That should be Zeros.

Mike
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:45:34 GMT

In article <SMITTIE.92Aug19095225@lark.csulb.edu> smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie) writes:
>>I see.  So it is the Chinese who caused the problem.  Not the massacre by
>>the Japanese.  Nor the Japanese history books which failed to acknowledge
>>the massacre.
>
>No, you don't see. You are twisting my words. The Chinese did not cause the
>problems between 1931 and 1945. They were the victims. However, those who
>continue to teach and promote hatred will very likely be the cause of future
>problems.
>
>I do not wish to lessen the severity of the past. I question the perpetuation
>of hatred into the future.

You make some sense here. Yet you should understand that some hatred is
caused not really by teaching, but by the dishonesty of the Japanese
government. Many chinese are ready to forgive. But the forgiveness is not
to the persons who conducted or/and the crimes, yet not ready to admit it. 

Now, you should know who should be the first one who needs to be blamed, if
you are really wise as you implied. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.korean
From: borders@ms.uky.edu (Johnny Borders)
Subject: Re: Irresponsibility (Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of 
    Japan)
    <7078@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> <Aug18.233240.37729@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> 
    <kim.920818214522@magneto.physics.auburn.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 07:01:15 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

news@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:

>So we the oppressed people see two folded voices, one from public...

Many pardons for bringing this up, but.. WE THE OPPRESSED PEOPLE? *WHO*
is oppressed? If anyone in the Far East is oppressed these days, it's their
own government that's doing it to them.

>To be a big brother country Japan government and all of the high-intelligent
>Japanese must teach their kids the truth, then Japna can be one of
>the really great nation who can get respect from all of the countries.
>But as long as Japanese government and their buracrat try to ingnore
>the past and misquid their new generations, Japanese will be remained as
>a just ECONOMICAL ANIMAL whihc has no SOUL and SPIRIT. 

Being an American, all I can say is that 'respect' and 'truth' and
'justice' are dead words here. Misguiding the children is why we have
schools, it seems. Problems? We have no problems! Just ignore it and it
will go away.. :)
America is a *VERY GREEDY* ECONOMICAL ANIMAL. Soul? Spirit? Not around
here.. I envy every single oriental for having meaningful values to
begin with (oppressed or not).

>Still hope all of the Japanese be like you and be brave to face
>their dark history.  

>                                    Kim  from Korea.
>.

Interesting point. The truth is obvious. The need is clear. It should not
take a brave man to face it, as it is EXPECTED. Any that does not is a
*COWARD* and should apologize for it the old-fashioned way..
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* The University of Kentucky is not responsible * AIX: Marketing or lunacy?   *
* for me, by reason of "Bureaucrats Syndrome,"  * "I never used anything by   *
* a crippling form of insanity.                 *  IBM that I liked."         *
From: kitagawa@will.ntt.jp (Masahiro Kitagawa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: English Language Services in Japan (Osaka)i
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:27:16 GMT
Organization: NTT Basic Research Labs., Tokyo, Japan

In article <1992Aug14.031241.9888@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> brad@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brad Saxton) writes:

 |I would like to find some English language media services in
 |Osaka.

	Some English language broadcastings available in Japan

[ Television ]
NHK's satellite TV:	ABC, CNN, BBC, ITN, etc. (news, commentaries, etc.)
English sub-channel:	Most of evening news, foreign TV series and
			movies are bilingual
Paid satellite TV:	CNN
Cable TV:		available in some areas and major Hotels

[ Radio ]
<Mid Wave>
FEN:	810 kHz around Tokyo	(Not available in Osaka)

<Short Wave>
BBC:	Shortwave (very strong and clear, broadcasted from Hong Kong)
NHK's Radio Japan:	Shortwave (not strong)
MISC:	VOA, Radio Canada (9555kHz), etc.

<FM>
Some FM stations have English DJ programs	(Who's listening ?)
--
MaSa					*--- **** ***-- *--* *-* *-*
Masahiro Kitagawa			$@KL@n(J $@>!9@(J	NTT$@4pAC8&5f=j(J
NTT Basic Research Labs.		kitagawa@will.NTT.JP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: asano@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ASANO Yoshiteru)
Subject: Re: Have some cash; Was: Re: Osaka Airport directions
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 22:22:01 GMT

Accepted no credit card?  Sounds very odd to me.  Today, almost any type of 
business accepts visa or mastercard in Japan...  Was it really a 'business
hotel'?  Wasn't it a 'love hotel'??
Well, maybe your card wasn't international ...
Anyway, I just felt odd, that's all...
   y.a.
From: kenji@reseau.macrofield.or.jp (Kenji Rikitake)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Fare from Osaka Airport into town
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:22:04 GMT
Reply-To: kenji@reseau.macrofield.or.jp (Kenji Rikitake)
Distribution: soc
Organization: Macrofield Corporation, Toyonaka-city, Osaka, Japan
Posting-Front-End: Terakoya-u kaku 2.06 DEBUG 11-AUG-1992

In article <1992Aug11.152752.15917@uqvax.cc.uq.oz.au>
	ccloretta@uqvax.cc.uq.oz.au writes:
>I have a friend travelling to Osaka who wants to know whether to take a taxi or
>bus from the airport into the main part of Osaka. Does anyone know an
>approximate cost of cab or bus fares?

Osaka Airport locates northwest suburban area of central Osaka - 
driving directly from the airport to Umeda (northern downtown of 
Osaka) will cost about 5000yen. Taking the bus will cost less 
(about 1/5 to 1/10).

I recommend your friend to take a bus to Hotaruga-ike train 
station (Hankyu Takarazuka line) and take a train ride to Umeda if 
he/she wants the cheapest way to get access to the downtown.

// Kenji
_.. .   .___ .___ .____ _... _.. _.._ _.._. ...__   _ ___ _.__ ___ _. ._ _._ ._
"Humour is by far the most significant behaviour of the human mind."
                                -- Edward de Bono, "I am Right - You are Wrong"
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:6950 soc.culture.china:23377 soc.culture.hongkong:9942 soc.culture.taiwan:12100
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:18:33 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.japan
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

karchang@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kar Man Chang) writes:

>To use a much tamer analogy, if someone mistreated you once, would you
>trust him afterwards?  If he apologizes, at least I know that he knows
>he did something wrong, and our relationship can probably start all over
>again.  But if he doesn't, I will be under the impression that he
>does not think that what he did is wrong, that we have very different
>standards of opinion, and we may never be able to interact beneficially.

I fail to see why China necessarily needs the relationship with Japan.
Until Japan apologizes of it's own accord, why not establish relationships
with countries and people China gets along with?

>I know some Japanese who are nice, but I only know a few Japanese, so
>my impression about Japanese is dominated by what I hear in the news 
>about the actions of their government and politicians. This may be a
>biased opinion, but that is all that I have got. 

In my experience, there is very little relationship beween the
actions of the Japanese government-politicians and the way people
really think.

>Even during WWII, I don't believe that all Japanese want to conquer
>China.  But the government controlled everything then, and it still
>appears that the government is in control now.  If the Japanese 
>government does not admit that what it did during WWII was wrong,
>there is no reason why its neighbours should not be suspicious of
>its intent.

Yes, I think the Japanese government is in control of many things.
Yes, I can understand how Japan's neighbous feel be suspicous. No, I
don't think that that yelling, screaming, complaining, demanding,
and otherwise trying to force Japan to apologize will have a
positive outcome. 

If you're hungry, you do your best to get something to eat. But if
you just walk into the store and grab it you get in trouble.  You
have to be a bit more clever and not only get what you want but get
it in ways that don't cause you more problems, don't you. 

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087





Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch (IKEDA,M./EP)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:22:00 GMT

In article <903@hobby.ukc.ac.uk>, mhs@ukc.ac.uk (M.H.Smith) writes...
>In article <17AUG199211495637@vxcrna.cern.ch> ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch (IKEDA,M./EP) writes:
>      Germany and the rest of Europe have laid the past to rest because
>   Germany has satisfied the requirements of providing true education to
>   its people and compensation to other nations (including the state of
>   Israel).
> 
>I'm afraid this is simply not the case. Fears are expressed here in the
>UK all the time about German domination of Europe ("They tried it
>before, they'll try it again", "Remember the death-camps", "They may
>claim to have changed but you know the Germans  -- they're all Nazi's
>at heart"). No apology will ever stop this. What has happened is that
>politicians generally don't voice these fears in public.

This fear will always exist in Europe.  The magnitude of the horrors
was of such extent that most likely it will never truly disappear.  But
my impression (I admit it may be a bit biased since I work in a European
laboratory) is that there is a desire to keep Germany firmly anchored
in a democratic Europe.  If there will be any kind of domination, it
may be economic in nature.  I would say people feel a bit uneasy, but
not paranoid!  If a majority of people believed that the Germans were
"Nazis at heart", there wouldn't be any joint European projects like
CERN, ESA, or ESPRIT which have strong German participation.

>The situation is exactly the same with regard to Japan and her
>neighbours. We have seen plenty of hysterical rants over the past few
>days from Chinese and Koreans. They display a deep-seated
>anti-Japanese feeling. No apology will destroy this racism. Japanese
>war crimes are just an excuse for racism.

As I said no apology will ever be enough.  And I assume there will be
suspicion of the Japanese well into the next millenium.  I am also not
worried about the crazed idiots who will continue to hate and will
probably be anti-Japanese until they die.  I would just like Japan
to set the record straight with a proper apology and by providing
proper education of the history.  In a generation or so, the ranting
and raving will drop to the murmur level like in Europe.  Perhaps there
may even be forgiveness.  But nothing is going to happen until Japan
acts first.

>Japan must aplogise for the crimes her people committed during the
>Second World War.  What difference will it make? None. Chinese and
>Koreans will still hate the Japanese; though maybe they won't be able
>to fill various newsgroups with racist diatribes.

I ignore the posts with the "jap" comments.

-- Makoto
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
	<Aug.19.14.43.01.1992.1604@sol.rutgers.edu>
	<SOLON.92Aug19133450@wren.csulb.edu> <15066@umd5.umd.edu>
	<SOLON.92Aug20140338@wren.csulb.edu>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:28:23 GMT

I too would like to how you responded using my friends address??!!
I think something funny is going on here.

smittie
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie | If all of us were as smart as we think we are the
smittie@beach.csulb.edu |  current world problems would be yesterday's news.
________________________|___________________________________________________
From: An-Ly Yao <anlyyao@igc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Date: 13 Aug 92 05:59 PDT
Subject: Re: Learning Japanese in Japan
Nf-ID: #R:1992Aug13.003629.15302@sj.ate.sl:-512141432:cdp:1473500053:000:404
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!anlyyao    Aug 13 05:59:00 1992



There is a nice book which also touches this problem:

Roy Andrew Miller: The Japanese Language in Contemporary Japan
                   Some sociolinguistic observations
AEI-Hoover Policy Studies 22
Washington D.C., 1977
ISBN 0-8447-3247-8


That book helped me a lot to understand the trouble I experienced myself.
(Waseda Univ. 1980/81)

bye, Goetz Kluge

anlyyao@igc.apc.org
1992/08/13
Seoul, Korea
From: kenji@macrofield.or.jp (Kenji Rikitake)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Moving discussion of life in Japan to fj
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:23:37 GMT
	<TOZAKI.92Aug14221743@amber.math.keio.ac.jp>
Reply-To: kenji@macrofield.or.jp (Kenji Rikitake)
Distribution: soc
Organization: Macrofield Corporation, Toyonaka-city, Osaka, Japan
Posting-Front-End: Terakoya-u kaku 2.0612 DEBUG 14-AUG-1992

In article <TOZAKI.92Aug14221743@amber.math.keio.ac.jp>
	tozaki@math.keio.ac.jp (Hidekazu TOZAKI) writes:
>In article <GyFcJ.430@reseau.macrofield.or.jp> kenji@reseau.macrofield.or.jp (Kenji Rikitake) writes:
> |                                    And most of Japanese Internet domains 
> |only subscribe fj due to the language barrier.

>  Most of? If you have any statistical information, please show it to
>us (also in fj.news.groups).

What do you think about it? Let us know.

I have no statistics - but I have seen very few postings from 
Japan at least on following newsgroups:

soc.couples, alt.romance, comp.os.coherent, comp.mail.uucp, comp.mail.misc.

I know silent Japanese readers exist on non-Japanese-spoken 
newsgroups - but what I want to insist is that little portion of 
them do POSTING to non-Japanese-spoken newsgroups.

BTW I do not subscribe fj.news.group - I've got sick and tired 
with destructive and unconstructive discussion being held there. 
And I'm not interested at all in policy-making procedures on the 
fj hierarchy.

// Kenji
_.. .   .___ .___ .____ _... _.. _.._ _.._. ...__   _ ___ _.__ ___ _. ._ _._ ._
"Humour is by far the most significant behaviour of the human mind."
                                -- Edward de Bono, "I am Right - You are Wrong"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 06:37:36 GMT

>>For me, a war-hate person, many 
>>Chineses and Koreans still hate Japanese, for the simple reason that
>>the lies are continuing floating in Japanese history books.

This is a fact.

>Well, lies exist in history books of just about every country.  Would
>you hate them as much if the lies were about someone else?

?
The involved always have stronger feelings, I guess.

>It is ok to hate the history books, but if you hate the people, you

It is interesting to hate the books, instead of those liars.

>may find yourself being a contributing factor in the next war.
>Frustration and anger are understandable, but don't let these turn
>into hate.

I don't know wether the peoples can embrace the deception.
From: satoell@eng.auburn.edu (Ellen Ayumi Sato)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Need recipe...
Date: 22 Aug 92 03:28:08 GMT
Organization: Auburn University Engineering


Greetings!

Would anyone have recipe for "okoa" (sp?) -- kind of "pink/light red" rice 
with some type of bean ?

Thanks for any info!

Ellen.

	satoell@eng.auburn.edu
 
B