From: dem@meaddata.com (David Myers)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: System recommendation (NAD/Denon)
Date: 8 Jan 1993 23:26:22 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
	<1993Jan8.154710.19489@midway.uchicago.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: devil.meaddata.com

nodrog> I'm in search of a receiver (or component equivalent) and
nodrog> speakers for ~$1200 to play mostly jazz and light rock (Paul
nodrog> Simon, REM) in a small apartment listening room (ie, modest
nodrog> volume requirements).  So far I've narrowed the choices down
nodrog> to Denon AVR-2000 or NAD 1600 preamp/2100 amp, and Paradigm
nodrog> 5SE or Vandersteen 1B.

   I just bought an AVR-2000 and am pretty pleased with it.  I
definitely wanted Pro Logic, but at a lower price than separates.
Also, being lazy, I definitely wanted a system where I could operate
most functions via remote control.  The design of the AVR-2000 remote
is pretty poor (62 identically sized buttons evenly spaced out - don't
try to use it in the dark), but it controls lots of functions,
including most other Denon components and other companies' TV's and
VCR's.  And it has learning capabilities on top of that.

nodrog> So, (1) are the outboard surround/ProLogic processors THAT
nodrog> much better than the Denon?

cal> 	(1) It depends on how much money you would like to spend. A $500
cal> processor probably won't be an order of magnitude better than the one
cal> built in to the Denon. If you blow ~$3000 on the THX-certified Lexicon
cal> CP-3, you will notice a difference. In any case, the outboard processor
cal> will have a lower noise floor, and could also have nicer features than
cal> the one built in to the Denon. (Like DSP circuitry, or individual level
cal> controls for the different channels.)

   A $500 processor probably won't be very much better than the Denon.
The AVR-2000 has the basic DSP modes with tuneable parameters and
channel levels, all adjustable from the remote (indeed, most things on
this receiver aren't adjustable from the front panel).  Plus, two of
the DSP modes operate on top of Pro Logic decoding (some receivers
won't do this).  Large, clear lettering on the display let you see
what you're adjusting, though the display isn't as nice as that of the
AVR-3000.

nodrog> (2) long-term will I be sorry I don't have the "flexibility"
nodrog> of a component system (particularly appreciate hearing from
nodrog> someone who might have made this mistake)?

cal> 	(2) Going the seperates route ultimately allows greater fidelity,
cal> and you can upgrade bits and pieces of your system without having to
cal> throw the baby out with the bath water. I would prefer to have a great
cal> stereo system over an adequate surround system.

   I'd rate the Denon as a step above adequate, but the point's well
taken that separates are better.  As for flexibility, the AVR-2000 is
somewhat less flexible than I'd like.  It's missing a preamp loop, for
example, and using the tape monitor for external processing would be
inconvenient due to the way the whole thing works.  It's also missing
an audio out pair that you can use to send audio back to your TV (it
seems to have been designed with a separate TV tuner in mind, as none
of the inputs are called "TV").  You can use a VCR record out for
this, but you could get into a feedback loop this way if you press the
right buttons.

   Remember, too, that the Denon switches video.  I think some of the
separates discussed here don't do that, if it's important to you.

cal> 	(4) I have not heard the Paradigms or Vandersteens very much,
cal> so I can't be very helpful. Both of the amplifiers mentioned above are
cal> high-current designs, so you shouldn't worry about them being unable to
cal> drive the speakers. (If the Denon can do it, either of those amps can.)

   The Denon, like many 5 channel receivers, it seems, doesn't like 4
ohm speakers.  They say to use speakers from 6 - 16 ohms.

cal> 	The only reason that I would go with the Denon is a budgetary
cal> one. It is not a bad component, but the seperates will ultimately give
cal> you much better sound quality.

   Very true.  You'll pay about half as much with the Denon as with
separates with an outboard Pro Logic system.  You may or may not
notice a difference in sound, unless you spend a fortune on the top
end stuff.  Me, I need to eat, too.  :-)

--
David Myers                                             (513) 865-1343   
Mead Data Central           No news is             Fabrication Systems
P.O. Box 933                 bad news.                dem@meaddata.com
Dayton, Ohio  45401                             ...!uunet!meaddata!dem