HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jont@cs.su.oz (Jonathon Tidswell)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: Mudding not in Australia
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:14:43 GMT
Reply-To: jont@cs.su.oz (Jonathon Tidswell)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia

In article <quan.703153638@sol> quan@sol.surv.utas.edu.au (Stephen Quan) writes:
>jont@cs.su.oz (Jonathon Tidswell) writes:
>
>>Stopping muds running in austrlia is short sighted, very short sighted.
>>I agree that there can be a problem with international and local traffic but
>>this can be fixed by contacting the people running muds and getting them to put
>>time / locality limits ( dns lookups :) into the mud servers.
>
>Think of the image of a growing group of Australians getting addicted to
>a fantasy computer game.  Especially the international image,.. it sounds
>rediculous.  It may even constitute the same media hype that role-playing
>games such as Dungeons and Dragons originally generated.
Yeah, I ignore the media hype about most things, it is just that HYPE.

>>Can you stop people mudding overseas ? I doubt it.
>>Can you stop them logging into fred.smith.account@some.major.us.intitution ?
>>( fred's shell happens to be /usr/local/games/mudshell :)
>
>A fix to telnet (perhaps) to restrict the use of internet telnet to *ports*.
>Typically to access a mud, telnet <hostname> <portnumber> seems to be the
>syntax required.  Perhaps there may be legimite reasons to do this intra-
>campus, but why would anyone want to do this via the internet?
Oh good, so that is ports 1025, 1026, .......
I think ftp and might fail first, I seem to recall that it pays
special attention to ports below about 5000 in its random allocation of data
ports. ( If I recall correctly )

Well since if you set up a mud with sysadmin approval, I like the account
mud with empty passwd and a special shell.
So it will take more care in setting up.
Also to stop nosey parkers Big Borothers you disable finger/rusers and call
the account "fred" or some such non intersting thing.

Oh sure if EVERY admin in Australia chased up every login outside of australia
to see what/where/why then you might achieve something, but that assumes they
have the time.

>If this is done, then the only internet community will be affected is mud
>players.  Legitimite users such as ftp and on-line telnet facilities (such
>as archie) will be unaffected with such a hack.
see above.
Oh I assume you mean people not ftping alt.sex.pictures because it doesnt come
in via news, or similar groups.
Oh you mean nobody uses archie for finding games ....


JonT
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonathon Tidswell              | jont@cs.su.oz.au  ( Ernie on IRC )
Basser Dept. of Comp. Science  | >> This space intentionally left blank. <<
Phone: +61 2 692 4802          | Disclaimer: I think my thought are my own.     
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: quan@sol.surv.utas.edu.au (Stephen Quan)
Subject: Re: Mudding not in Australia
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:48:06 GMT

alan@frey.newcastle.edu.au (Alan Hargreaves) writes:

>quan@sol.surv.utas.edu.au (Stephen Quan) writes:
>
>>A fix to telnet (perhaps) to restrict the use of internet telnet to *ports*.
>...
>
>>If this is done, then the only internet community will be affected is mud
>>players.  Legitimite users such as ftp and on-line telnet facilities (such
>>as archie) will be unaffected with such a hack.
>
>if this is done, people will start to compile their own mud clients
>and use those instead of telnet (yes they already exist).

True, but that should at least account upto 80%-90% of the people who
play muds.  At the later half of 1991, an extra-ordinary number of
undergraduates in 2nd and 3rd year of a Faculty, I will not name, were
playing muds.

It seems to me, apart from a few *hackers*, that most of them didn't
know much more than connecting to a mud and playing them.  It is a shame
that such devout enthusiasm could be generated in game role-playing,
whereas the equivalent time could have been constructive applied to
something called homework.  It is unbelievable to what extreme some
students go to.  I have heard cases that people were playing muds
right up to and even on the day of their exams - unbelievable.
--
Stephen Quan (quan@sol.surv.utas.edu.au)  Ph:  61 02 202844 (International)
Center for Spatial Information Studies         (002) 202844 (Inside Oz)
University of Tasmania, GPO Box 252C      Fax: 61 02 240282 (International)
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia, 7001              (002) 240282 (Inside Oz)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: ggm@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (George Michaelson)
Subject: Re: Leeds Uni??
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 02:41:53 GMT


try postmaster@dcs.leeds.ac.uk

	-George
--
                         George Michaelson
G.Michaelson@cc.uq.oz.au The Prentice Centre      | There's no  market for
                         University of Queensland | hippos in Philadelphia
Phone: +61 7 365 4079    QLD Australia 4072       |          -Bertold Brecht
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: brennan@coco.cchs.su.oz.au (Luke Brennan)
Subject: MUDs.. what's the *OFFICIAL* stand?
Organization: Cumberland College of Health Sciences
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 08:48:44 GMT

	So what *IS* the official standing in relation to MUDs?

	If it affects the net, then ??

	If it means a student fails 'cause they spend half their life
	on it.. okay :-) that's their stupid fault..

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
+ Luke Brennan                             e-mail: brennan@coco.cchs.su.oz.AU +
+ EDP Unit, S209                                   lukeb@casino.cchs.su.oz.AU +
+                                    brennan%coco.cchs.su.oz.au@cunyvm.BITNET +
+ Cumberland College of Health Sciences,                              ,-_|\   +
+ The University of Sydney                  voice: +61 2 646 6402    /     \  +
+ East Street, Lidcombe, NSW 2141             fax: +61 2 646 4853    \_,-._*  +
+ AUSTRALIA                                                               v   +
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Xref: sparky aus.aarnet:331 comp.admin.policy:737
From: doug@psy.uwa.oz.au (Doug Robb)
Newsgroups: cs.general,aus.aarnet,comp.admin.policy
Subject: Re: A question of law (was Re: A question of ethics)
Keywords: ethics cracking law
Date: 15 Apr 92 04:24:04 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: University of Western Australia


>	2)	If A logs in to YY from XX and uses his
>		program, does this give the XX admin the
>		right to act as he did?

Without knowing the context of how A was told not to run the
program its hard to say but remember if A is using XX facilites
(eg terminal and processor (rlogin or whatever)) 
and presumably xx premises.  Also good chance A is using 
xx printers and disk space in gathering output (when no one is
around?). The question also refers to "his program". Is this
some extra-curricular activity A is involved with?
Perhaps a commercial enterprise using university computers?

Who knows, the point I would like to make however is that when someone
with the appropriate authority tells A not to chop down 
the apple tree with an axe and then A goes ahead and cuts it down
with a saw instead then in general A is not in any position to 
claim he has been wronged! (unless of course you are an ex WA
gov politician |-) )

As for the admin's actions it probably would have been better
to do what someone else suggested, ie the cut off A's access to
system xx and assess the situation again.
As for A, if YY indeed had no objections to your activities then
the real smart thing to do would have been to log onto YY directly.
After all why wave a red flag at a bull?
doug@psy.uwa.oz.au
Xref: sparky aus.aarnet:310 comp.admin.policy:700
From: quan@sol.surv.utas.edu.au (Stephen Quan)
Subject: Re: Mudding not in Australia
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 08:27:18 GMT

jont@cs.su.oz (Jonathon Tidswell) writes:

>Stopping muds running in austrlia is short sighted, very short sighted.
>I agree that there can be a problem with international and local traffic but
>this can be fixed by contacting the people running muds and getting them to put
>time / locality limits ( dns lookups :) into the mud servers.

Think of the image of a growing group of Australians getting addicted to
a fantasy computer game.  Especially the international image,.. it sounds
rediculous.  It may even constitute the same media hype that role-playing
games such as Dungeons and Dragons originally generated.

>Can you stop people mudding overseas ? I doubt it.
>Can you stop them logging into fred.smith.account@some.major.us.intitution ?
>( fred's shell happens to be /usr/local/games/mudshell :)

A fix to telnet (perhaps) to restrict the use of internet telnet to *ports*.
Typically to access a mud, telnet <hostname> <portnumber> seems to be the
syntax required.  Perhaps there may be legimite reasons to do this intra-
campus, but why would anyone want to do this via the internet?

If this is done, then the only internet community will be affected is mud
players.  Legitimite users such as ftp and on-line telnet facilities (such
as archie) will be unaffected with such a hack.

--
Stephen.Quan@censis.utas.edu.au          DISCLAIMER: The views expressed
Center for Spatial Information Studies,    here are mine and does not
University of Tasmania,                    necessary represent the views 
Australia.                                 of my institution.
--
Stephen.Quan@censis.utas.edu.au / quan@sol.surv.utas.edu.au
Centre for Spatial Information Studies,
University of Tasmania,
Australia.
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet,aus.students
From: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Subject: Re: A question of ethics
Keywords: ethics cracking law
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:46:26 GMT

miw@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams) writes:

>kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:

>>[After some discussion of a hypothetical case ...]

>>miw@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams) writes:

>>> The *student* has no
>>>rights in this case, because all resources used belong to the
>>>university.
>>[...]

>>In the U.S., students have contractual rights, Constitutional rights
>>(at state schools), and (harder to defend) academic-freedom rights.

>This hypothetical case didn't happen in the US. It is also very unlikely
>to fall under any academic-freedom or contractual rights, because the
>object of dispute was a *game*. Now if the student can prove that he has
>some right, constitutional, contractual, or academic, to use University
>resources to play *games*, then good luck to him. In many places this is
>explicitly *forbidden*.

And what happens in cases where it isnt a game ? A sys-admin has taken
some sort of unusual action just to show how good they are or because
they simply dont like the user ? It is not unreasonable for a student
to expect they can safely use a .rhosts between their accounts within
an academic instituution. How many staff members do ? (Sometimes to the
wrath of thier sys admin).

I would be interested to know if any student who uses their universities
computer facilities in Australia has any rights/claims to privacy. If not
then this is a situation that should be looked at since it flies in the
face of some of the federal laws regarding these areas. Perhaps (for a
starter) the members of AARN and maybe a group like NOLS (no it should
not be a political group) which consists of students should get together
and draw up some sort of documents which protects students in some way.

I'm sure there would be a lot of embaressed (and outraged ?) students if
they knew their email wasnt private.

If there already exists such a document, where can it be found for
public viewing, including a list of those who are bound to it ?

Cheers,
avalon
Newsgroups: cs.general,aus.aarnet,comp.admin.policy,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: miw@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams)
Subject: Re: A question of ethics
Keywords: ethics cracking law
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 01:04:12 GMT

kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:

>[After some discussion of a hypothetical case ...]

>miw@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams) writes:

>> The *student* has no
>>rights in this case, because all resources used belong to the
>>university.
>[...]

>In the U.S., students have contractual rights, Constitutional rights
>(at state schools), and (harder to defend) academic-freedom rights.

This hypothetical case didn't happen in the US. It is also very unlikely
to fall under any academic-freedom or contractual rights, because the
object of dispute was a *game*. Now if the student can prove that he has
some right, constitutional, contractual, or academic, to use University
resources to play *games*, then good luck to him. In many places this is
explicitly *forbidden*.

Be real.

cheers,


--
Mark Williams         The University of Queensland       miw@cc.uq.oz.au
+61 7 36 54012   (w)  Prentice Centre
+61 7 36 54477  (fax) Qld 4072  Australia
Si fractus illabatur orbis impavidium ferient ruinae.  -- Horace
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: c9037369@cc.newcastle.edu.au (FANTASY GADE)
Subject: Re: Mudding not in Australia
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:19:37 GMT

In article <quan.703153638@sol>, quan@sol.surv.utas.edu.au (Stephen Quan) writes:
> Think of the image of a growing group of Australians getting addicted to
> a fantasy computer game.  Especially the international image,.. it sounds
> rediculous.  It may even constitute the same media hype that role-playing
> games such as Dungeons and Dragons originally generated.
> 

What about the growing group of Australians reading dirty stories through the
computer, or discussing how to blow things up, or how to do sick things to cats
etc ?? Wait till the media get ahold of them :)

Ooops, I'm not meant to use the aarnet, bye

Mark Green
Student of Newcastle University
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: russell@esri.oz.au (Russell East)
Subject: international email bounced at dmsperth.dms.oz
Keywords: frustration
Reply-To: russell@esri.oz.au (Russell East)
Organization: ESRI Australia Pty Ltd
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 10:29:41 GMT

I'm getting international mail, addressed to fairly ordinary
internet addresses (like user@company.com) bounced by dmsperth.dms.oz

Does anybody know what is happening ???
-- 

==========================================================================
|    |          Russell East,
|    |          Senior GIS Consultant,          E-mail: russell@esri.oz.au
|____|____      ESRI Australia Pty Ltd          Voice : +61 9 481 1143
|    |          18 Prowse St,                   Fax   : +61 9 322 3133
|    |          West Perth,                     Post  : PO Box 1218,
|____|____      Western AUSTRALIA                       West Perth, 6005
==========================================================================
"Things just ain't what they used to be"
From: jont@cs.su.oz (Jonathon Tidswell)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: Mudding not in Australia
Date: 11 Apr 92 07:01:13 GMT
Reply-To: jont@cs.su.oz (Jonathon Tidswell)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia


Preamble:
I am a token mudder, who only clocked up about 4 hour on a local mud.
And a cynic on the reasons of administrators.

Stopping muds running in austrlia is short sighted, very short sighted.
I agree that there can be a problem with international and local traffic but
this can be fixed by contacting the people running muds and getting them to put
time / locality limits ( dns lookups :) into the mud servers.

What has happened since muds stopped.
Mud wizards have moved their code (via ftp like services) overseas.
And everybody now has to mud overseas. ( except maybe 1 or 2 muds )

Can you stop people mudding overseas ? I doubt it.
Can you stop them logging into fred.smith.account@some.major.us.intitution ?
( fred's shell happens to be /usr/local/games/mudshell :)

Look out Big Brother IS watching YOU.
--
HELLO!  I'm a .signature virus! Join in and copy me into yours!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonathon Tidswell              | jont@cs.su.oz.au  ( Ernie on IRC )
Basser Dept. of Comp. Science  | >> This space intentionally left blank. <<
Xref: sparky aus.aarnet:330 comp.admin.policy:736 alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:1621
From: mikec@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Michael CIAVARELLA)
Newsgroups: cs.general,aus.aarnet,comp.admin.policy,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: Re: A question of ethics
Keywords: ethics cracking law
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:25:50 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia

miw@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams) writes:

>kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:

>>[After some discussion of a hypothetical case ...]

>>miw@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams) writes:

>>> The *student* has no
>>>rights in this case, because all resources used belong to the
>>>university.
>>[...]

>>In the U.S., students have contractual rights, Constitutional rights
>>(at state schools), and (harder to defend) academic-freedom rights.

>This hypothetical case didn't happen in the US. It is also very unlikely

Again, there were no mentions of _where_ the (hypothetical) example
took place.  The example was phrased with this specifically in mind
in order to solicit (bad word?) responses from as many viewpoints as
possible.


>to fall under any academic-freedom or contractual rights, because the
>object of dispute was a *game*. Now if the student can prove that he has

aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggh - who said it was a game?
It may have been a productivity tool (eg. a c compiler) or a front-end
to mail(1) or something of the like.  WHAT it was doesn't matter.

Mike
The original poster (yet again)

ps.  No Mark I'm not flaming you it's just that you're one of the 
     few who's _posted_ something with assumptions, rather than 
     e-mailed :-)



>--
>Mark Williams         The University of Queensland       miw@cc.uq.oz.au
>+61 7 36 54012   (w)  Prentice Centre
>+61 7 36 54477  (fax) Qld 4072  Australia
>Si fractus illabatur orbis impavidium ferient ruinae.  -- Horace
Xref: sparky aus.aarnet:308 comp.admin.policy:698
From: act@softserver.canberra.edu.au (Andrew Turner)
Subject: anonymous ftp to brolga.cc.uq.oz.au??
Organization: University of Canberra
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 05:53:13 GMT

Has anonymous ftp to brolga.cc.uq.oz.au been withdrawn or is there a worry?
Wishing to access the EOB2 gifs that were previously available and still
show as available as at 1 Apr on an Archie search.  Please e-mail if 
public discussion not appropriate.  Many thanks.

-- 
renruT werdnA			Probable-Possible, my black hen,
				She lays eggs in the Relative When.
act@ss.canberra.edu.au		She doesn't lay eggs in the Positive Now
				Because she's unable to postulate how.
From: phil@adam.adelaide.edu.au (Phil Kernick)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: How to get an MX record?
Date: 9 Apr 92 01:28:12 GMT
Organization: University of Adelaide, South Australia

A friend of mine works for Phoenix Microtechnologies here in Adelaide, and
they have a loosely connected uucp network, so I can send mail to users at
Phoenix by using an address of the form:

    cbmehq!cbmaus!phoenix!USER@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com

We will, for the moment, ignore the issue of the fact that mail which has to
travel about 5 km in real-space, actually goes via America...

When I get a response, the Return-Address always gets set to:

     phoenix!USER@stan.solbourne.com

Which bounces.  I assume that there is already a phoenix.UUCP that is
connected to Solbourne, and must, by virtual of the return addressing, be
registered.


The real question is, what will Phoenix need to do so that their mail does
not bounce all the time?

  (1)  Get an MX record with someone?  Who and how?
  (2)  Change phoenix to phoenixmt so there will be no address clash?
  (3)  Register with the .UUCP domain?  Who and how?


Thanks in advance,
Phil.


-- 
   _-_|\    Phil Kernick                E-Mail: phil@adam.adelaide.edu.au
  /     \   Departmental Engineer       Phone:  +61 8 228 5914
  \_.-*_/   Dept. of Psychology         Fax:    +61 8 224 0464
       v    University of Adelaide      Mail:   GPO Box 498 Adelaide SA 5001
Xref: sparky aus.aarnet:311 comp.admin.policy:701
From: john@iastate.edu (John Hascall)
Newsgroups: cs.general,aus.aarnet,comp.admin.policy
Subject: Re: A question of ethics
Keywords: ethics cracking law
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:11:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Apr12.161105.7659
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

mikec@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Michael CIAVARELLA) writes:
}I have a (hypothetical) situation which I'd appreciate ...

[... a short paraphrase ...
    User A has accounts on machines XX & YY operated by separate departments.
    Admin of XX forbids use of program P on XX or while using XX.
    User A compiles P on YY.
    Admin of XX impersonates A on XX and deletes P from A's account on YY.
...]

Were I the Admin of YY I would have the Admin of XX called on the carpet
post haste where I would urge that s/he be fired on the spot.

If, as someone else suggested, the XX admin called me and asked me to
delete P from A's account on YY, I would politely refuse (assuming P
was allowed on YY).

John
Xref: sparky aus.aarnet:329 comp.admin.policy:735
From: mikec@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Michael CIAVARELLA)
Newsgroups: cs.general,aus.aarnet,comp.admin.policy
Subject: Re: A question of ethics
Keywords: ethics cracking law
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:19:42 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia

miw@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams) writes:

>john@iastate.edu (John Hascall) writes:

>>Were I the Admin of YY I would have the Admin of XX called on the carpet
>>post haste where I would urge that s/he be fired on the spot.

>(a) This is not easy, because it is a university.


WHOA right there - the original post said _nothing_ about the type 
of organisation in the (hypothetical) example.  

Mike
The original poster ;-)
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: Conference version of TALK
Date: 4 Apr 92 03:53:57 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.

mesken@helios.usq.EDU.AU (Brian Mesken) writes:

>Is there a version of talk that allows multiple connections, so one person
>could talk to a number of others on machines. 

>The situation is for a tutorial session with a number of students talking
>to the tutor. A nice feature would be all seeing what the other type.

Dare someone advise a closed channel on irc????


>Thanks in Advance,
>--
>Brian Mesken                                   mesken@zeus.usq.edu.au
>Computer Services Unit,
>University of Southern Queensland,
>Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia.

-richard

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Muirden,                       | Also final year Computer Science
Systems Administrator (unpaid - gasp!) | Student, RMIT. Shostakovich Fanatic!!
Wesley College, Prahran Campus,        | Star Trek fanatic on the side.
Melbourne, Australia.                  | mail: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU
mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU  IRC: GA | phone: +61 3 820 1429 (home)     
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     My opinions are my own, not even Spock could work them out!!