HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: henry@bms.com (Henry Mednikoff)
Subject: Re: Independent Chuvashia II
Reply-To: henry@bms.com
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb PRI
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:39:34 GMT

In article 132157U52148@uicvm.uic.edu, <U52148@uicvm.uic.edu> () writes:
>
>In article <BxM1w8.E28@apollo.hp.com>, goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
>says:
>>
>>In article <1ds8nbINNd0f@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M.
>>Mukharsky) writes:
>>>In article <92316.175925U52539@uicvm.uic.edu> ---  BORYS  ---
>><U52539@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>>>   The Chuvashans probably consider their culture under threat
>>>>   from the Russians (lets be honest here, our 'Great Russian' big brother
>>>
>
>>>I was under impression, that Chuvashans probably consider their
>>>culture to be same as Russian culture. In this field big brother
>>>does have pretty good track record.
>>>
>>>Yury
>>
>>    Chuvash's independence movement is about $$$, not culture.
>>    They simply want to control the republic's natural resources.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>   Are there any Chuvashes on the net who could help us out?                   -
>Is there anyone from any of the non-Russian regions likt Tatars, etc?
>
>
>-Cro
>>-
>>---
>>Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-
>>---
>
>
>


Why do you try to keep Chuvashia subject alive ?
Is it the most important issue of the current events in CIS?
Once I took a cruise from Moscow to Astrahan along Volga river.
On my way I met chuvashians, bashkirs, tatars.
Chuvashians looked the most russified among this group of people.
Bashkirs & Kazan Tatars are muslims (mostly) and culturally different then Chuvashians.
The area is rich with oil and natural gas, therefore I tend to agree with  Alex's statement
about potential $$ being involved and nothing to do with ethnic Identity & Independence for Chuvashia.

Why not to discuss the current situation for Crimean Tatars ?
They were denied to come back to the Crimea after Stalin expelled them to Central Asia during the 
WWII.
Why not to discuss bloody events in Tadjikistan ? 
Why not to discuss the danger of Iranian influence on muslim republics of Central Asia and the 
future plight of  a huge non-muslim population in the republics of Central Asia (Uzbekistan, Kirgizstan,
Turkmenia, Tadjikistan) ?
Why, for god sake, Chuvashia is on the agenda again ?  
    
Henry.              
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.soviet
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: Argic/Mutlu&Co - not a monopoly.
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 02:50:24 GMT

	A statement made by a Turkish student in the newsgroups
about his disagreement with Argic/Mutlu line is a very important
one, I would argue.

	It proves on one hand, that Argic/Mutlu system is not
representative of the opinion of the Turkish public, at least not all
of it. If I were a student from Turkey, I would consider it to
be very important to draw a clear line between myself and
the activity of Argic/Mutlu&Co. - for the sake of my own,
if nothing else. 

	As for myself, it is important for Armenians to realize that
the hope for future normalization of relations with their neighbor
is not ruled out, and that the distant, but nevertheless, possible
perspective of achieving mutual understanding on the tragic events
of history is also present.

	I command the author of the statement, and I hope
that the antagonism, the zero-sum equation existing between
the two neighbors will be undone at some point. Not at the expense
of history, not at the expense of unprecedented human tragedy,
and at the same time, not under the slogans of revanche and revenge.
We have a precedent in front of us - Jewish holocaust and the
Federal Republic of Germany.


	In the short-run, normalization of relations,
in the long run - cooperation and consensus. This will
require tremendous efforts on both sides, and I hope to live
long enough to see it come through. In the meanwhile, a first step 
on that road could be to put an end to Argic/Mutlu soap opera 
which casts a shadow on the party which it tries to represent.
I think after the unilateral disgust repeatedly expressed by the netters,
the initiative should also come from that direction.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk)
Subject: Re: Maris, Komis, Udmurts, Mordvas, Karelians...on the net
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 22:10:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.065853.14857@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>
>Are there any mordvians, maris, komis, udmurts,ingrians, Russiafinns,
>karelians, vepsians, vatians, mansis,nganasans, nenets',ingeroins,
>komiperjaks, livvis, lyydis, saamis, hantis, selkups on the net?
>Fenno-ugrians of Russia?
>I am curious to know.
>
>With best regards,
>
>Jarmo Ryyti
>"Suomi - a country under the North Star"
>

  Hey, Jarmo !
Where have you disappeared ?
My wife keeps asking about you...

Serega & Co
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.soviet
From: deniz@mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu (Deniz Akkus)
Subject: Re: Argic/Mutlu&Co - not a monopoly.
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 04:39:37 GMT
X-Posted-From: mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov17.025024.21723@leland.Stanford.EDU>
arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian) writes:

>	A statement made by a Turkish student in the newsgroups
>about his disagreement with Argic/Mutlu line is a very important
>one, I would argue.
>

I actually disagree. 90% of Turks that I know have expressed ridicule
for Argic postings, or at least some annoyance that it was too much.  
But, there really seems to be nothing to do, how do you stop a forger?
The mail is obviously forged, and there seems to be no way to stop a
determined hacker from getting to USENET and flooding.  I think the
easiest way to stop the Argic personality (for it is probably a bunch of
people doing the postings) is to deprive them of the attention they
crave.  How long do you think they will keep on posting if they received
stony silence? 

>	As for myself, it is important for Armenians to realize that
>the hope for future normalization of relations with their neighbor
>is not ruled out, and that the distant, but nevertheless, possible
>perspective of achieving mutual understanding on the tragic events
>of history is also present.

One would hope so.  It is important to realize that both would gain 
from a more friendly relation between the two countries.  For Armenia to
suffer from hunger while nearby Turkey has surplus of food is a sign of
the mixed up state of the world over there, and I was very happy to hear
that grain shipments to Armenia was to start.  I see other commercial
benefits for the two states, with hope that these, with time would give
way to more amicable feelings to come.    

There is one easy thing to do:  let Armenia have access through the
Trabzon port to the outside and  let Turkey pass an oil pipe and
commercial traffic to Azarbaijan and beyond.   Last year I heard
something about a  fleet of Ilyushins  from Central Asia ferrying food
from Turkey back home through the winter.  There is no reason why this
could not have been done through Armenia, and across the Caspian.   

Surely it is better to be a gateway to Central Asia for the outside
world than to be a landlocked country on top of the Caucauses? 

regards,
Deniz Akkus 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: Re: Chicken, Turkeys, and the exposure of MUTLU.EXE
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 00:03:09 GMT


Brilliant. Sherlok Hollms would be proud of you.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: nobby@hardy.u.washington.edu (Vitaly Shmatikov)
Subject: Re: Signal/noise ratio in t.p.s.
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 11:23:13 GMT

[... impressive list deleted ...]

>I dream about Armenian terrorists. I know they are a myth,
>but if there is one remaining, please give me a call.
>I hope very much that one day you will find this invulnerable
>AI idiot and kill him once and for all. Do you need something?
>A conspiratory flat, physical support, donation? I will 
>give you *everything* to atone myself on this creature!
>
>Misha.

I concur with Misha. My kill files also work relentlessly and
I would gladly hire a couple of professional killers to get rid
of our common friend. The scariest thing about him is that he's
constantly expanding his activities taking over more and more groups.
The day his postings appear in alt.rhode_island I'll scrap
Usenet for good.

Best regards, and let's pray for salvation together.
Green God is our last hope.

nobby@u.washington.edu

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Need Better NRA Ads NOW !
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:44:31 GMT

In article <lairdb.721516708@crash.cts.com> lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird P. Broadfield) writes:

}Bringing to the fore the exact definition of "overwhelming force".  Most
}no-knock raids on unsuspecting civilian homeowners probably qualify.  A
}no-knock raid on a forewarned, well armed, well prepared homeowner is
}not necessarily the black-and-white issue you make it out to be.

Sorry, not all of us care to wear body armor and carry guns in our homes.
I don't think our society has yet come to that, though I can see it
heading in that direction.

}*Anyone* who breakes through my door without warning, wearing a mask *is*
}a "real goblin".  "POLICE" painted across his back or not.  He is an attacker,
}who has demonstrated a deadly threat and the means to carry it out, and
}I am both sensible and justified in defending myself with any means at
}my disposal, subject *only* to tactical considerations.

I have to agree.  If you survive I'll congratulate you.  If you die, I'll
mourn your passing.  I think we'll all (us and the cops) be much better
off if it never happens at all.  Making the police change their procedures
in response to public pressure now is safer all around than shooting it
out with them when they make a mistake.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer)
Subject: Re: Firearms laws in the Maryland, Virginia, D.C. area...?
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:11:13 GMT

In article <18NOV199202175216@zeus.tamu.edu>, mjm3170@zeus.tamu.edu (MATTSON, MATTHEW JUL) writes:
|> Because i might possibly be taking a job with the Federal Govt. this next year
|> (I cannot expand on this...) I am interested in the firearms laws of the states
|> I mentioned in the subject line.  Can anyone help me out?
|> 
|> Of particualr interest are the requirements to qulify for a full-carry
|> handgun permit and the laws concerning transport of both handguns and
|> rifles (yes, semi-auto...something to make the liberals cringe...).
|> 
|> Thank you for any info...
|> 
|> Matt

Forget Maryland and D.C.!

				mike
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,talk.rape
From: nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf)
Subject: Re: A Coffee-House Conversation with a REAL Nadja
Organization: WEITEK Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 21:51:29 GMT

In article <37624@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns) writes:
>
>Just imagine how that would clean up our judicial system.  If simple
>possession of a gun were punishable by 10 years in jail, then we could
>get all the criminals off the street without having to prove any
>complicated cases.  No expert witnesses, no crime labs, no dueling
>attorneys.

>A criminal wouldn't dare carry a gun, because that would identify him
>immediately as a criminal.

>David

David, are you as naive as you appear to be? Guess what. Heroin is illegal,
crack is illegal and possession of either of them has the penalty of a nice
long jail sentence. And more criminals than ever are carrying them around.

Criminals know they are criminals; and street wise people notice them, too.
But they still commit crimes because they really don't think that they will
get caught, OK? Criminals tend to be SOCIOPATHS - they don't worry that much
about long range consequences - but they do think about short range ones, like
having holes the size of pie pans blown in them.

On a side note, in the SF Bay Area, the land where only gun control advocates
like Dianne Feinstein can get carry permits, the criminals have come up
with a new and improved technique for grand theft auto. Now they walk up
to people, beat the shit out of them, and leave with their cars. A little
kidnapping and rape can also liven the picture. At least one victim has
been killed. 

What was the police response to this SF epidemic? Well, the acting chief of
the SF police suggested that victims should obediently hand over what ever
the criminals ask for. If you get hurt, it is your fault for resisting.

Funny thing - this technique doesn't play in Portland, Denver, or Cheyenne.
It didn't even play in Albany, Oregon one night when a man with rape on his
mind climbed in next to my dad's girl friend in her truck. He got in at a 
stop light and started to wave his knife around and began to tell her what 
he was going to do to and with her. She pulled out her handgun and pointed
it at him. He left the truck at top speed backwards, apologizing and begging
her not to shoot at the same time. Man had a really fast mouth.

Don't blather any garbage like 'she should have locked her truck doors.'
They WERE locked. Criminals learn neat tricks from each other in jail,
including how to force vehicle doors. Locks only keep honest people out.  
 
I suggest you leave your little suburban womb and go live in my old neighbor-
hood for about six weeks. If you manage to survive, I suspect you will have
a much better understanding of the Real World (TM).
-- 
The Earth Pig Bourne....

nadja@node.com (prefered email address)
nadja@weitek.com
From: chrisb@natinst.com (Chris Bartz)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Science Fiction (Was: I HATE to vote for Bush! But...)
Date: 16 Nov 1992 13:24:57 -0600
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: eagle.natinst.com

In article <1992Nov15.054918.8962@microsoft.com> alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel) writes:
>meyers@leonardo.rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers) writes:
>>
>>According to Neal Knox's "Key Congressional Votes 1985-1992, Tom Foley voted
>>        "!  R  R  R  R  R  R  -  X  X  -"
>>where "R" means pro-gun, "X" means anti-gun, and "-" means not voting.  The
>Mr. Foley's voting pattern would seem to change close to the time when
>he became Speaker of the House.  Hrmm...


I thought that the Speaker of the House did NOT usually vote.  I
think I remember when the flag-burning resolution came up Foley said
he would bring it up for a vote but would take the unusual step of
voting against it.

This would explain the not voting but if its unusual for him to
-- 
-chris bartz (chrisb@natinst.com)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: betz@gozer.idbsu.edu (Andrew Betz)
Subject: Re: Gun Control: A modern, REALISTIC view.
Organization: SigSauer Fan Club 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:34:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.223117.15537@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> ghm@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
>Geoff Miller  (g-miller@adfa.oz.au)
>Computer Centre, Australian Defence Force Academy
>
hi geoff;

as an informational post, could you update t.p.g. on the new south wales
gungrabbing?  i've seen reprints of some ominous ads that start like,
"Self protection is no reason to own a gun..."  HUH?!?  why don't they
just come out and say it, "hey, criminals!  its open season on citizens!
don't worry about kicking their door down in broad daylight!!!  you know
they'll be disarmed, and if they have the audacity to use a gun in
self-defense we'll arrest 'em for it!!!!!!!!!!!!"

also, i heard bits about a pro-gun political party forming to counteract
this crap: is there anything going on there?

drew
--
betz@gozer.idbsu.edu
*** brought into your terminal from the free state of idaho ***

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Guns & self defense
Date: 23 Nov 1992 22:40:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: concertina

>In article <Bxz1q0.HA7@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>
>>Don't ban the guns, ban the uses to which they are put.

What uses that are not currently illegal would you propose?



--
-------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give away      |
| to everybody else and have none left for yourself.  |
-------------------------------------------------------
From: yarvin@cs.yale.edu (Norman Yarvin)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Registering "Assault Keys"
Date: 15 Nov 1992 20:37:15 -0500
Organization: Yale Computer Science Department
NNTP-Posting-Host: cathy.na.cs.yale.edu

starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:
>In article <1dsmihINNcro@CATHY.NA.CS.YALE.EDU> yarvin@cs.yale.edu (Norman Yarvin) writes:
>}If an interfering person didn't behave as if he would use his weapons, it
>}would be no different from him being unarmed.  If he did behave as if he
>}would use his weapons, the cops would take it as a threat.  So there would
>}be no advantage to being armed.
>
>Suppose twenty people drew their guns on them and told them to stop.  Would
>they have continued to beat King or would they have taken on the people?

The cops would have surrendered.  However if one of them were in a patrol
car or otherwise in a position to use his radio, a large number of cops would
have quickly descended on the area.  All the twenty people, now outnumbered
and outgunned, would be arrested and found guilty of interfering with a
police officer in the conduct of his duties and whatever other charges could
be thought up.  (possibly "interfering with <the cops'> civil rights"? :-))

Since there were about ten or twenty cops on the scene, I think it probable
that at least one was in his car.  But suppose none of them were.  Then our
Good Samaritans would have a possibility of escaping.  It would not be
easy.  They could not put their guns away before leaving; otherwise the cops
would try to arrest them.  In any case, when they walked away the cops would
follow in their cars.

All this assumes almost psychic coordination between the twenty random
passers-by.  They have to figure out to draw their weapons simultaneously,
how to collectively disarm the cops, and how to split up and escape.  And
even with this coordination, they face considerable risks.  

--
Norman Yarvin						yarvin@cs.yale.edu
Date: Friday, 20 Nov 1992 11:18:54 EST
From: <34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Distribution: usa
Subject: Re: Little-known membership benefits of the NRA

In article <9211192013.aa19216@s.s.ms.uky.edu>, miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D.
Grant) says:
>
>Am I paranoid here or what?
>:)

Mostly paranoid. :-)  The police consider EVERYBODY as "possibly armed".
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: A thought on the comming gun bans
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 05:06:33 GMT

In article <ATAYLOR.92Nov16143121@gauss.nmsu.edu> ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) writes:
><Because the Supreme Court (for some reason) considers the seizere of
><things used to commit another, unrealted crime to be different from
><a general ban (e.g. seizing a car used to transport drugs isn't the same as
><a seizure of cars in general.)

>	So if President Clinton's "Drug Czar" were to declare all 
>	so-called "semi-automatic assault rifles" to be "drug dealer 
>	paraphenalia" under an Executive Order and order their seizure
>	under civil law, the Supreme Court would no doubt hear
>	the case just like they heard all those RICO cases?

No, if Clinton were to do that, the RICO statutes could be applied
when (and _only_ when) there was reason to suspect the owner was
involved in drug-related crimes.

>	Let's all hope that Clinton's Justice Department doesn't
>	decide to RICO a few firearms owners....

I hope so. From the looks of the newspaper statements, this might not
happen: Crime and supposed crime reduction laws (i.e. gun control) are
not among the "hot" issues Clinton says he will initiallty focus on.

                                               Frank Crary
                                               CU Boulder

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: larryd@stein.u.washington.edu (Larry Desoto)
Subject: Re: New concealed carry in Texas...
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:49:22 GMT

skeeter@skatter.usask.ca writes:

>I just heard what amounts to a rumor that Texas has "a new law
>allowing people to carry concealed handguns" (as I heard it).

>Any truth to this?  Could someone respond with details, please?

Introduced into the legislature; not passed yet; what are the odds
Governor Richards will sign it even if it does pass?

>--
>skeeter@skatter.usask.ca			no nifty .sig

>The weight of one's wallet is inversly proportional to the size of
>one's heart.   -- me 

Always easier to have a heart if someone else is paying for it. 

--
Larry


Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns