HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Tuesday, 13 Oct 1992 09:01:35 PST
From: Thomas Hyer <IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Pittsburg Fans
 <1992Oct13.024705.24963@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> <26285@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
 <1992Oct13.151808.15458@sei.cmu.edu>

In article <1992Oct13.151808.15458@sei.cmu.edu>, dpw@sei.cmu.edu (David Wood)
says:
>
>
>The Pirates ranked 17th out of the 26 major league teams in raw
>attendance last year, but 6th in terms of per capita attendance based
>on metro area population and 4th in terms of city population.  They
>sold approximately one ticket per metro resident, or 5.6 per city
>resident.  Their performance was eclipsed only by the fine fans of the
>Reds, Royals, Blue Jays, Orioles, and Cards.  The Brewers and Twins
>were not far behind.
>
>By comparison, the Pirates outdrew teams from huge cities such as
>Boston, San Franscisco/ Oakland, both Chicago teams, Detroit, Philly,
>both LA-area teams, and both New York teams (these are the 7 largest
>metro areas in the country, by the way - there is a definite pattern
>here).  In fact, not only did the Pirates out-draw both New York teams
>on a per capita basis, but they out-drew them both *combined*, and by
>an order of magnitude (based on city population).  Even when adjusted
>for winning percentage (by dividing per capita attendance by winning
>percentage), the New York teams round out the bottom two spots on the
>list, while the Pirates fall to 9th out of 26.
>
  In fact, the Pirates would have outdrawn both New York teams
*combined* by this inane measure, even if both had sold out every
home game.  So?

Tom Hyer
From: kim@guppy.uucp (Isaac Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Weird day at the ballparks
Date: 12 Oct 1992 23:24:56 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: guppy.ucsd.edu

In article <39377@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.130731.28148@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> tconnors@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Tim Connors ) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct12.123054.8386@cis.ohio-state.edu> atchison@kazoo.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark Atchison) writes:
>
>>>>Jim Kaat mentioned Gibson's HR about 10 seconds before Alomar's blast.
>>Did you notice ... that *every* play-by-play man claims to know what
>>the hell is being discussed at a mound conference? ""Borders is telling
>>Guzman not to worry about the runner, and to keep the ball low and
>>outside." "Steinbach is just reminding Stewart that Carter has a
>>tendency to swing at low-outside heat." I have heard this countless
>>times. Maybe all catchers are wearing hidden mikes?
>
>I remember seeing a mediocre baseball movie, "The Dizzy Dean Story"
>or something like that which had a great scene.  There's a couple
>in the stands and the guy is trying to impress his date.  The
>catcher goes out to the mound and the guy tells his girl all about
>how they are discussing strategy and blah blah blah.  Cut to the
>conference, "Hey Diz, my uncle gave me a new shotgun - wanna
>go hunting in October?" 
>
>Now it's probably, "Hey Jack, my broker got me into a great
>investment, want to have your agent talk to him about it?"...

I also remember a classic Oakland Athletics commercial during the 
summer of 1982 in the height of "Billy Ball", when Martin was the
manager.  Oakland is in the field and their opponent has some base 
runners on.  The catcher runs up to the pitcher to have a mound
conference.  In the background, the announcers are commenting on
what possible pitching strategies they must be discussing.  All
the catcher wanted to know was who played Wally Beaver's brother
in Leave it to Beaver.  The pitcher is clueless.  A few of the 
infielders then join the conference and they are equally stumped.  
In the background, the announcers are now discussing  how now they 
must be discussing which bunt defense they plan to use.  The umpire 
then joins mound conference and asks what is taking so long.  They ask 
him the question, and the ump just sits there and scratches his head.  
Finally, Martin runs up to the mound and asks what's going on.  They all
ask him the question, and Billy quickly answers : Jerry (something).
The mound conference then breaks up and in the background one
of the infielders is heard muttering: "I guess that's why he's
the manager." 

Isaac (kim@bull.ucsd.edu)
From: gt2807a@prism.gatech.EDU (Benjamin H. Cowan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Announcer's call of Cabrerra's hit
Keywords: Atlanta, Pittsburgh
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:22:03 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Oct15.074642.7072@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> kev@fred.Berkeley.EDU (Kevin Eckert) writes:
>
>	For anybody in the Atlanta or Pittsburgh areas,
>could someone post how the local announcers called Cabrerra's 
>pennant winning hit?  The Atlanta call would be especially
>interesting; i.e. did the announcer totally lose it.


  I might leave a word out here or there but it was something like:

    There's a big hole over in right-center field.  If he [Cabrera] could
  hit one there we could party in the streets.  Belinda delivers the 2-2.
  IT'S A HIT INTO LEFT FIELD!  JUSTICE SCORES!  HERE COMES BREAM!  HE'S
  SAFE!  BRAVES WIN!!!  BRAVES WIN!!!  BRAVES WIN!!!


  Skip Carey (sp?) was calling the play.  I think he and all the Braves
announcers did an excellent job calling the whole series.  It got to the
point that I muted the TV and turned the radio on to hear some decent
announcing.  I think CBS announcers must get paid by the word and they try
to fit as many of them in as possible.

Ben...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin H. Cowan                       || Reply to: gt2807a@prism.gatech.edu
Georgia Tech... Atlanta, Georgia  30332 || 
================================================================================

           "I don't believe there is a man, woman, or child alive
                   that doesn't enjoy a lovely beverage."
                                                        --Dave
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: (Gerry Gryschuk)
Subject: Re: Key in game 5
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Distribution: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:16:18 GMT

From article <1992Oct14.135332.6121@morgan.ucs.mun.ca>, by cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  ):
> I know second guessing a manager is quite the normal thing to do, but
> does anyone else thing that Gaston starting Cone in Game 5 was a major
> mistake?
> 
> My logic is this. You are up 3-1 and you have key in the bullpen. Yes,
> the A's are mostly righthanders, but Key has been hot the last month and
> has pitched good the last month. If he wins...great it's over, World
> Series here we come. If he loses, you are still up 3-2, with Cone and
> Guzman fully rested. Considering the way Morris pitched the last game I
> wuld rather have a fully rested Guzman pitch game 7 then Morris who has
> been shakey so far this series.
> 
> Also, by using Stottemyre and Key in that series, it cuts down how much
> they could be used in the last two games. I think Gaston may have made
> an error.

This is getting scary. Me an avowed Cito basher defending him twice within
a couple of days. To put it simply I don't think Cito made a mistake in
this situation. If pitching on 3 days rest was going to hurt a pitcher
I would expect it to occur later in a game when his arm got tired quicker
than normal. Cone simply didn't pitch well. If Cone pitched only slightly
better and the Jays had played errorless ball the game would have been
much closer. I expect all that Cito was looking for from Cone was a good
6 or 7 innings, there was no way he could expect the Jays to give up
3 unearned runs. Then if the Jays are up after 6 or 7 Cito could have
brought in any number of pitchers from the bullpen to shut down the A's
and possibly win the game. Had the Jays won in 5 all the pitching staff
would have gotten a good long period to rest up, thus there would be no
worry about pitching the bullpen too much.

Anyway this is all academic now. Way to go Jays!!!
--
Gerald Gryschuk            Saskatoon,Saskatchewan = a place with 9 months
gerry@sask.usask.ca           of hockey and 3 months of poor skating.
Go Habs!!!		             (Maldonado is a bum.)
From: rbd@flash.ece.uc.edu (Bobby Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: The end of the world as we know it
Summary: and I feel fine.
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:18:23 GMT
Organization: Unversity of Cincinnati, ECE Dept

Brandon Cope writes:
>ps. In the book _Fall_of_Nations_ (?), people being rude to each other as a
>matter-of-fact is mentioned as one of the first indications of the demise of
>a culture.

THAT IS THE STUPIDEST THING I EVER HEARD!  What kind of an idiot would read
such a dumb book?  You are wrong and I am right!  Dumbo!!!  Do you have some
mathematical models to back up this assertion?  Troglodyte!

Bob Davis
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: bone@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Douglas J. Bone)
Subject: Re: Atlanta DH?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:44:22 GMT

In <Bw8FFt.AL5@doppler.ncsc.org> kmoore@ncsc.org (Kevin Moore) writes:

>Any idea who the Atlanta DH will be? Lonnie Smith? One could make a case
>for Deon's speed in the lineup. Maybe bat him 9th in front of Nixon. It would
>be good to get him involved since he saw little action in the NLCS.

DH certainly is Lonnie Smith's natural position.  If one were to play
both Sanders and Nixon, one would probably want to play Justice as
the DH.  When both Nixon and Sanders were playing before Blauser
supplanted Belliard at short, they batted 1-2 with Belliard 8th.  They
played quite well 1-2 in the lineup.  

I don't know much about the DH.  Could one use a DH for Belliard and have
--
Douglas Bone		Internet: bone@luciano.stanford.edu
Standard disclaimers	BITNET:   bone%luciano.stanford.edu@stanford
apply.			UUCP:   ..ucbvax!luciano!sierra.stanford.edu!bone
From: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Braves in Fulton for '93?
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:01:43 GMT
Reply-To: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Organization: Southern Bell - MSG  Atlanta, Ga

In article <16879887E.ISTRE-A@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> ISTRE-A@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU writes:
>While watching last night's game, I began to wonder now that the Georgia
>Dome is finished, will the Braves play their games there in '93? What is
>the status as far is Fulton County Stadium is concerned?
> 
>Several years ago, when the Braves were wallowing in last place and were
>drawing 10,000 or less for a game, many were critical of the stadium.
>saying it was a bad place to watch baseball. This year, the Braves drew
>over 3 million in the same ballpark and no one is critizing the stadium.
>It is amazing what happens when the team wins two straight NL West titles.
>While I have never been to FCS, on TV, it looks like a pretty decent ball
>park to me.

The Georgia Dome was not built for baseball games.  
While Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium is an OK baseball park,  it
is a horrible football stadium.  That was the main reason for
the Dome.

There will be an Olympic Stadium built for the 1996 Olympics near
the current AFC Stadium and shortly after that, the Braves will
move to that stadium and AFC will be razed.

The biggest complaint that I have with AFC Stadium is that it
is dirty (Yes I have in 11 major league parks so I have something
to compare it to).  The concessions also seem to be poorly
organized.  This was true even when there only 5,000 people in 
the park.

Don't get me wrong.  I love the Braves even though they make me
mad sometimes (giving Otis Nixon 7 million dollars while on drug
suspension),  I just don't care much for the stadium.

GO BRAVES!!!!   ...please.....
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: The Ex-Cub Factor
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:44:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.181709.10456@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00bjgood@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
>
>For one thing I am not a freshman, I posted on this newsgroup quite often last
>year.

Who really cares?  You were acting like one.

>Maybe I was a bit out of line, but it just pisses me off to hear arrogant
>people like you rip on the Cubs just because everyone else does. Yeah it's fun
>to joke around about the Cubs. But your post was just a bit much. 

JFC!  Don't tell me that you've never heard about the "Ex-Cub factor"
before!  It is in no way an insult to the Cubs or their fans.  And
it was certainly not being used as such in the post you flamed.

It is meant to poke fun at the mediots who come up with floods of
ridiculous situational stats.  It obviously has no basis in reality.
It is about as relevant as noting that the team with the better record
in Tuesday night games when playing in a dome has won 10 out of 12
times in game 5 of the ALCS.  And some people think it's kind of fun.

>Now who is the no-it-all? I didnt rip on anything but an arrogant post,

No, you simply blew up without any provocation at all.  The post was
not arrogant (though this one is certainly arrogant, since am
obviously the most arrogant poster in r.s.bb).  I'm sorry the Cubs are
losers (which, I am sure, is why you are so touchy these days).  I'm a
Red Sox fan, and I know how it feels.  But the post in no way was an
insult to you or your team.

Cheer up.  They can hardly get any worse.

-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: jrp@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Pessetto)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RC/MLV Continued
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:48:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpfcso.10010703
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA


      I cann't remember what the equations for MLV and RC are.  Would someone
let me know what the latest and greatest equations are for these.   Thanks


         John Pessetto
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: svangav@eng.clemson.edu (sreedhar vangavolu)
Subject: Smoltz MVP of Game 7 of NLCS
Reply-To: svangav@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:42:24 GMT


	

	John Smoltz is the MVP of the game 7 won by Braves 3-2.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: steph@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Ex Cubs All-Star teams
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:42:51 GMT

In <1992Oct16.150504.385@leland.Stanford.EDU> bohnert@leland.Stanford.EDU (matthew bohnert) writes:

[snip]

>Oddly enough, the thing that the Cubs do (or don't do) enough to my
>satisfaction is to trade aging veterans for good, young talent just
>as they're about to go over the peak.  Gary Matthews was painful to watch
>in his last two years, and other teams were interested in him from
>1986 on... the team refused to consider a trade.  The Blue Jays once
>offered Dave Steib for Jody Davis straight up in '87 or '88, I think,
>but again they refused and ended up trading him to the Braves for garbage.

Didn't Assenmacher go to the Cubs in the Jody Davis trade (along with
Blankenship, who had awesome stats in AA, but never did anything in the
majors.)  Assenmacher has quite possibly been the Cubs most reliable reliever
in the years since.

Of course, what the Braves got in the Davis trade was garbage.  With the way
Jody Davis hit, they would have been better off with Bruce Benedict.
-- 
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Gigabit Study Group 

  "It is considered good to look wise, especially when not
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: freon Deion
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:49:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: fc.Bvv86M.1vL
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.2 PL6]

: This is the @$&%#*! postseason, for crying out loud - the
: Braves need him full-time (if they need him at all).

I guess that's why they've started him in centerfield in the first two games,
hmmm?  Seems the Braves are the ones playing with Deion here - first they tell
him they want him full time, then they proceed to let him ride the bench.

--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: NL OPI Final
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:48:05 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard):

>  Along the same lines, what does OPS measure?  

It doesn't measure anything.  In fact, you compute it by adding two 
quantities with different units (things per PA plus things per AB), which
makes it a confused little number indeed.

>It takes two quantities that
>I understand, and combines them into some master number.  Having read this
>group off and on for a couple years, I've started ranking players offensively
>by OPS because it seems to put the correct names at the top of the list --

Exactly.  OPS is an index, not a measure.  It tends to rank players pretty
much correctly in overall batting contribution per opportunity.  This is not
because it *measures* this contribution, in any rigorous way, but because it
happens to correlate real well with it over the range of values you're likely
to see in major league baseball.  

It's a quick-and-dirty shortcut.

-- 
       David Tate        |"Out of the dugout endlessly swinging,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | Out of the manager's throat, the sound fundamentals,
 Prof. of Story Problems | Out of the six-month season..."            
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR | 	Walt "Lefty" Whitman
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Clutch/Choke-Talk (Re: Big Bad Barry)
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:31:29 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

>Well, I still want to know how to determine Barry Bonds'emotional 
>state.  (Note: even what *HE* says afterward is unreliable; after all
>he's trying to rationalize his failure/success.  Ever hear anyone who's
>just gone 4-for-4 say, "I wasn't seeing the ball that well today"?
>
   Not that it has anything to do with this argument, but I have heard
   players say that aren't seeing the ball that well while in a hitting
   streak. Paul Molitor has had streaks where he's hit about .400 for a
   week and has complained that he doesn't feel comfortable at the plate.
   Bonds might be telling the truth and he might not.

   --salty
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rising@zoo.toronto.edu (Jim Rising)
Subject: Morris pitches to score
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:49:23 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

For what it's worth (and I think not very much) some of the Toronto
announcers say that Morris ascertains which of his pitches are working
in the early innings then stays with those later in the game.  That
would explain his tendency to give up a lot of early runs.  I for
one don't think that Cito's decision to leave Morris in in game 1
was obviously bad.  Morris had given up two memorable taters in the 
2nd, but had pitched impressively since, and did not appear to me to
be tiring.  Morris, for all his faults, was not the only pitcher to
give McGwire a HR this year.  Nor Baines for that matter.
-- 
Name:     Jim Rising
Mail:     Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada    M5S 1A1
UUCP:     uunet!attcan!utzoo!rising 
BITNET:   rising@zoo.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Subject: Re: Bonds Testy
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:52:55 GMT
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.2 PL6]

: Kurt Bose must have misheard the CBS guy's question in the same way that 
: Barry Bonds did. In postseason, he was in a slump.

Depends on how you define "slump".  One normally thinks of it as a period of
time in which you aren't doing well.  It also usually connote "contiguous", as
in, not "hasn't been hittin well on alternate Mondays".  In that sense, after
one game of the NLCS, it does indeed seem premature to talk about a slump.

Now, if you subscribe to the notion that the set of postseason games Bonds has
played in over his career constitutes a period of time over which one can be
said to "slump", then the reporter may have a point.  But I don't personally
believe that.  I think a player's performance has a lot more to do with recent
performance than "performance in ostensibly similar circumstances in previous
years".  To the extent that one's hitting ability varies, I believe it is more
like a time thing that a situation thing.  That is, a "slump" over a week can
possibly be caused by a cold or any number of physical or psychological
factors.  I don't believe there is is some magic force causing Bonds to do
poorly in postseason play.

Bad performance in a short span of time, I'll believe there may be a cause
(although as often as not, it is probably random chance).  Bad performance in
selected games over a course of years, no.  So I do believe the reporter was
way off base in saying Bonds had been slumping; quite to the contrary.  One
0-3 game with a walk after a wonderful last month of the season does not, to
me, define a slump.

--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Bond's Post-Season Woes Continue.
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:36:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.21035
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


Another listless display by Bonds. Well if Mr.Regular Season
continues like this, it would be better to remove him from the
lineup. Then again it is only one game. Let us see his fortunes
in the coming games.

S.H
Forever Twins
From: mlbruce@husc11.harvard.edu (Matthew Bruce)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Weird day at the ballparks
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:34:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc11.mlbruce.718925673

tconnors@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Tim Connors ) writes:

>In article <1992Oct12.123054.8386@cis.ohio-state.edu> atchison@kazoo.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark Atchison) writes:

>>>Jim Kaat mentioned Gibson's HR about 10 seconds before Alomar's blast.
>>Also:
>>_______________________________________________________________________________
>> Mark Atchison, a.k.a. <atchison@cis.ohio-state.edu>; Graduate Student in the
>>Computer Science Dept, THE Ohio State University (NOT an Ohio State University)
>>		Any plagiarisms seen above are not my own...


>Mark,
>   I have seen that happen quite a few times. The hitter is at the play
>and I think to myself "homerun coming up" and sure enough, it happens.
>Announcers have a knack for the same. The will often be saying how
>syer X is bound to come out of his slump soon, and bam, 3-run homer.
>Did you notice as well that *every* play-by-play man claims to know what
>the hell is being discussed at a mound conference? ""Borders is telling
>Guzman not to worry about the runner, and to keep the ball low and
>outside." "Steinbach is just reminding Stewart that Carter has a
>tendency to swing at low-outside heat." I have heard this countless
>times. Maybe all catchers are wearing hidden mikes?
>         tconnors@morgan.ucs.mun.ca
>              Tim Connors
>l
>k
The two all-time best examples of this: August 19, 1990. Hector Villanueva
pinch hits in the 8th inning, runner on 1st, Braves ahead by a run. Steve
Stone mentions that Hector's parents are there, Hector would love to
impress him. Next pitch, into the left-field bleachers against 20mph wind.
Then, last July, Cubs in Houston. Friday night, scoreless. Wilkins up,
bases empty. Harry Caray says "Oh for a long one-- THERE'S A DRIVE...!!!"
Next night, Dawson facing Joe Boever, Steve's turn. "Boever has yet to
give up a home-run... (the instant Dawson crushes one) until now."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball