HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Surveyors Drive a White Pickup [was Re: Survey]
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:35:35 GMT
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN

>In article (Chris & Susan Colvin) writes...
>}When you die, where will you go?  (in the ground is not a valid 
answer)
>
>}What is my "agenda" for asking these questions?  Just curious.

[lots o' stuff from Murray deleted to save pennies ...]

  I think it's particularly funny that these guys missed "alt.
buddha.short.fat.guy".  Such questions there would have earned
a couple of great ha-ha's, or at least a thundering silence.

  Blessed be, Ciaran.

  p.s.  Hi, Murray and everyone else who's written, I'm working
through my writing back-log and hopefully will catch up in the
next couple of days.
From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Firewalk
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 22:49:20 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:

[enormous and old thread stuff deleted]
> I don't think anyone was saying that mystical experiences could be explained,
> at least, not fully. Nor do I think anyone was belittling such experiences.
> 
> However, in this case - the mystical experience was not the ability to walk
> on the coals unburned - it was the convincing oneself to do so, in the first
> place and then carrying it through. 
> 
> Bill
> 
I am glad to see that you DID understand my point. It was the belief in his
ability to do it that made it possible for him, whether or not he would
have been burned without this belief is immaterial. Thank you, and where
the heck you been? This thread went through over a month ago???


--------------------
Donal, Sysop of The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@lobster.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443 
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
From: evc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Edward Van Cura)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: Gifts of the Sea (correction)
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:53:51 GMT

I got my books mixed up.

<A note from *Teutonic Religion* p.221 concerning sacrifice:

The book is *Teutonic Magic*. *Teutonic Religion* is at Llewellyn
collecting dust, perhaps to come out in 1-2 years. 

Thorfinn
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Bread, "it's pure pollution."   Greenpeace spokesperson
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Mailer-Daemon@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:08:45 GMT

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 radzy@hpccol.corp.hp.com... Host unknown

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: by pons.cis.ohio-state.edu (5.61-kk/5.911008)
	id AA22282; Mon, 17 Aug 92 18:03:30 -0400
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:03:28 EDT
From: elizabeth a fannin <fannin@cis.ohio-state.edu>
To: radzy@hpccol.corp.hp.com
Subject: woothatscold
Message-Id: <CMM.0.88.714089008.fannin@pons.cis.ohio-state.edu>

you BET i'm a dancer!!!!!  seminar instructor, at that....yup, a
part-cherokee, shamanistic, hillbilly, 66-cutlass-driving, middle eastern
dancer.  that's me.

i think i've already had this conversation with your husband.

i would *really* like to compile a list of dancers with email capability.....

liz, aka SHAKIRA
From: system@korova.uucp (razorback)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: this Virgin Mary appearance thang
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 12:48:04 CDT
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783

sjs@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu (BORCO) writes:
> And, of course, it HAS to be a "supernatural" thing; anyone claiming to be
> M/J/E would be sent off to the head clinic, like peaceful people claiming
> to be M/J/E is a bad thing or something.

well, actually, people that claim to be elvis go off to los vegas and get 
paid money.

squid

--
              VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783
        "where you can find the Zeta Greys SAFEWAYING themselves
                into the WONDERBREAD *heart* of America!"
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: donita@scic.intel.com (Donita Thompson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Children's Pagan Books???
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:43:12 GMT
Organization: Intel SCIC, Beaverton, OR


What about pagan books for children? Anybody know of any?
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: I have returned...
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:51:31 GMT
Organization: California State University: Sacramento

In article <199208190638.AA03111@intercon.com> amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker) writes:
>I'm back.  At least, if you can read this, I'm back :)...
>
>Amanda Walker
>amanda@intercon.com

Just wondering if you were posting this in response to the fundies' survey.

I believe it was the question on whether or not you come back or not,
and apparently you did.

Good to have you back.

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: News Alert!!!
Date: 20 Aug 92 04:29:48 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society


This was received by me from my friend, Domi, who is the Vice Archdruid of
the ADF. She wanted me to spread this as much as possible. 

Wed 19 Aug 92  5:58p
By: Domi O
Re: Pagan Murderer Escape
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Meek, date of birth 4-14-63, of Arlington Texas, has escaped from
police custody. Meek is a slightly built Caucasian male who was
convicted of premeditated murder.

Why does the pagan community need to know? Meek is a former member of
ADF, The White Horse Kindred, The Ring of Troth, a couple of Wiccan
groups, and the SCA. He has called himself Woodlock; he may have other
names.

The police feel he may attempt to hide out with public pagans or pagan
groups, since he can talk a good rap in many kinds of paganism and
undoubtably would not go around telling people he's a convicted
murderer; while they think he may have headed for the East Coast, they
are not sure.

Can we warn folks that he may be dangerous?

We are trying to get a better physical description or picture.... ADF's
contact with him was unfortuneately all by correspondence so we don't
know precisely what he looks like.

Thank you for your help.

Domi O'Brien
Vice Archdruid ADF
From: alizard@drc.uucp (A.Lizard)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: new hassles
Date: 18 Aug 92 09:39:13 GMT
Organization: Sound Blaster Systems, Concord CA

Saw something interesting on the tube, local news. 
It seems that a group called the Traditional Values Coalition had
a local chapter which had a clown named Bryce Alexander giving a
fundie style lecture on the Craft. It made the news because a group
of Wiccans protested it. 
This is the group that got a measure passed in Concord,Calif. that
repealed an anti-gay discrimination ordinance. 
This is something that at a minimum, should be of interest to Calif.
pagans.

Bright Blessings...
and keep your powder dry.
A.Lizard
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 19 Aug 1992 12:01:44 EDT
From: Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan music (was Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction)
 <2A904741.27799@orion.oac.uci.edu>
 <1992Aug18.164756.29914@burrhus.harvard.edu>
 <2A9163A1.24408@orion.oac.uci.edu>

i'm surprised in all of this discussion of pagan music, no
one has mentioned libana's _a circle is cast_.  it's mostly
a capella music by an all-women singing group, and is absolutely
beautiful.  so is _fire within_, whihc is another of their
albums.  very good stuff, and songbooks are available for
both albums so that you can perform the songs yourselves...

                                     -ailsa

p.s. the FAQ list DEFINITELY needs a list o pagan books, fiction,
amd music!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan Music (Was Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction)
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 16:42:31 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <16161@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.165908.9244@burrhus.harvard.edu>, canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson) writes:
>> 	The Tain - Horslips - Irish folk-rock outfit from the '70s musical
>> 		version of the Irish literary masterpiece.  They're
>> 		whacked, but it's kinda neat.
>
>YES, YES!  These guys were great!  They did another rock opera
>besides the Tain, one called "The Book of Invasions". Great stuff
>and informative liner notes about the mythology.

	Just thought I'd mention that I've found "The Tain" on CD as a
rerelease.  "Book of Invasions" is cassette only unless you find it used on
LP though.  I personally favor "The Tain" over their over material.  BTW,
does anyone know the original release dates (years) for Horslips' albums?


>Clannad has some good stuff. Before they got all electrified they were
>one of the best of the true Celtic folk groups - very tight vocal
>arrangements with incredible harmonies. Check out their older albums
>"Dulaman", "Clannad 2" and "In Concert". They also did the soundtrack for 
>the "Robin of Sherwood" TV series which figured in the Pagan Movie
>thread...

	My mom has "Dulaman" and swears by it.  It's very very good from
what I recall.  I'm not into their more recent electronic stuff, though -
too be honest I really crack up when I hear some of their heavy
synth-processed vocal intonations on the "Robin Hood" shows ...
	Oh well ...

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: leighann@sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:25:53 GMT
Organization: Black Oak

In article <1992Aug18.154314.26798@u.washington.edu> rjb@milton.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars) writes:
>I'm curious:  has anyone read Elizabeth Moon's _Deed of Paksenarrion_?
>Does it count as pagan fiction?
>
>--LeGrand

I read it, and I really liked it.  It's certainly as Pagan as some of
the other stuff that's been proposed here.  Don't read the second book
unless you have the third one right there, though!  Highly depressing
otherwise...

B*B
	- Leigh Ann


Leigh Ann Hussey 		leighann@sybase.com
CoG #151E
"Take no scorn to wear the Horn; it was the Crest when you were born!"
From: amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 16 Aug 92 19:51:43 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at Austin

Well, lessee...

Of course there's Patricia Kennealy's Keltiad series.  Wonderful
stuff.  Can't recommend it highly or vociferously enough.  Great
prose, Celtic sources, wonderful characters... okay, I'll stop raving.
But they really are great.  Some of Tanith Lee's work is really great
for pagan reading, especially her short stories.  Also, try her book
_Black Unicorn_.  Robert Holdstock's _Mythago Wood_ and _Lavondyss_
are really good, and I agree with whoever mentioned Gael Baudino
(_Gossamer Axe_, _Strands of Starlight_) and Charles De Lint
(_Moonheart_, _The Riddle of the Wren_).  _Witchdame_, a book by
Kathleen Sky, is practically an Alexandrian Book of Shadows in some
places, and most enjoyable.

There's a Fairy Tale series put out by Tor Books, the latest
title of which is called _Tam Lin_ and is by Pamela Dean.  Haven't
made it through the whole series yet, but _Tam Lin_ was wonderful.

Marion Zimmer Bradley's _Sword and Sorceress_ series (that's not what
you thought I was going to say, is it?) is also good, and you can
find writers like Diana Paxson and Mercedes Lackey (who got her start
there).  Paxson's novel _Brisengamen_ is also a treat, and should not
be missed.

I agree with Erich; I found _The Mists of Avalon_ on the whole to be
annoying as well (but I've beaten that horse before).  And it is
interesting that MZB, after her stroke, was all of a sudden
"unalterably Christian."  Hmmm.  But any road...

Want some cool pagan reading of a different variety?  Check out Mother
Goose.  Having recently invested in a copy to read to my five-week-old
daughter, I have found some really *interesting* rhymes in there.

I imagine there must be pagans who don't like to read, but I haven't
met any yet...

What fun!  I'm collecting recommendations from this thread for my next
outing to the bookstore.

-- 
-----Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik-------------------------------*<:-)-------------
"Queens never make bargains."  -- The Red Queen, _Through the Looking Glass_
-----amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu--------------The University of Texas @Austin---
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Subject: Re: That Virgin Mary really gets around
Keywords: Virgin Mary, Christology, books
Organization: California State University: Sacramento
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:25:42 GMT

In article <1518@lysator.liu.se> ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson) writes:
>What I wonder about is why she is called the VIRGIN Mary. Does it
>really say in the Bible that she did never have sexual intercourse
>with any person? Granted that she was a virgin when getting pregnant,
>why would she stay so for the rest of her life? Surely one-child
>families were extremely rare at these times, weren't they? Poor woman.

You don't REALLY expect religion/mythology to follow the logical precepts of
empirical reality, do you? :-)

>This should really go to soc.religion.christian, I suppose. Personally
>I have no idea as to where in the Bible to look for a clue about The
>Virgin Mary. Could someone with more knowledge tell me?

If you are interested in the Christian dogma regarding the VM, then look
in the bible. If you are interested in how that dogma came to be written
in the bible and practiced by the church, then don't ask the church.

A very good scholarly approach to Christian dogma can be found in "The
Life of Jesus" by Marcello Craveri, which I can highly recommend. Rather
than follow the tradition of the literally thousands of "Life of Jesus"
books, Craveri attempts to summarize the last fifteen to twenty years of
Christology, and includes chapters on the parents of Jesus of Nazareth,
as well as how belief in his divinity (ie., when it began, how it happened,
etc.) evolved over time, how the cult of the virgin was promulgated, how
the political intrigues of the church molded Christian dogma, among others.
I found the book rather unbiased, as Craveri tries to show the entire 
spectrum of views from conservative Catholic to liberal and archaeological/
scientific Christologies, without much of his own opinion.

It is also good reading.

Also, "Adam, Eve, & The Serpent" by Elaine Pagels (author of The Gnostic 
Gospels) is a good treatment of the same subject along with a look at the
sexual mores of the church. Also, good reading.

Another I can recommend is "Pagans and Christians" by Robin L. Fox, a 
history of the early church as it "took over" the Roman Empire from the
ruling pagans. Not particularly dealing with your question re: the Virgin
Mary, but of interest to pagans IMO.

Good reading.

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan music (was Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction)
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:59:15 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <2A9163A1.24408@orion.oac.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.164756.29914@burrhus.harvard.edu> canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson) writes:
>>In article <2A904741.27799@orion.oac.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>>Okay, let's get a little balmy, too.  Some of us like the feel of sun
>>>on our skin and Medi sand between our toes!
>>
>>	Fair enough :) I remember a Classics major friend of mine who got a
>>tape of Ancient Greek music.  Apparently there are some transcripts of
>>ancient Greek tunes is mss.  and somebody arranged them for ancient Greek
>>instruments and recorded it.  I haven't heard this myself, but apparently
>>it does exist.                
>
>I appreciate the information, but I have a feeling that I'm going to be
>chasing this damned thing for the next couple of years.  Thanks a LOT.

	Well, I think this guy picked the tape up in Harvard Square's HMV
record store in the Classical section.  I'll stick my head in next time I'm
there and see if this tape lurks within.

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rjb@milton.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 23:11:49 GMT


Leigh Ann Hussey comments on a remark by me:


In article <1992Aug18.050514.15121@u.washington.edu>
rjb@milton.u.washington.edu
 (LeGrand Cinq-Mars) writes:
>Now that Alan Garner's name has been mentioned, I'd like to mention
>his _The Owl Service_, based around a famous incident in the _Mabinogion_
>but played out in the modern world.
>
>--LeGrand

Actually, I was dissatisfied with THE OWL SERVICE.  Seemed to me that
Garner missed the point.


--And I ask in return (puzzled), what was the point that he missed?

--LeGrand
From: alizard@drc.uucp (A.Lizard)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re:re:Survey
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 14:54:10 PDT
Organization: Sound Blaster Systems, Concord CA

Did my post on how to complain to Compuserve regarding the Colvins
get out on the net?
B*B
A.Lizard
From: liam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Liam)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: words
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 23:52:26 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

        I have been watching the news lately, and it seems that all there 
is to report is violence, crime, and hatred.  I read posts about 
religeous, racial or sexual intolerance. It is quite obvious that these 
things are not much liked, yet the majority of the people I talk to just 
point fingers and say "something needs to be done about this" or 
"sombody needs to do such and such about this that or the other problem" 
or the ever popular "It wasn't my fault".  We always seem to blame the 
ills of the world on "THEM", yet I wonder how many people really know who 
"them" is. I hear that "they are the xtians, republicans, democrats, 
biggots, liberals, coservitives, arabs jews, arabs, feminists, gays, 
people of every race or creed, satan, god/s, demons, or whatever (if I 
have left any groups out of this list of "them" please feel free to add 
these to the list).  It would appear that "them" covers all walks of life 
all nationalities and races, in short, we are them. Yet we always blame 
it on someone else because no one wants to take the blame for anything. I 
have also noticed that we all want things to get better, yet we still 
fail to see that the only way to change the world is to change ourselves 
from within.( I must include myself in this collective "we")  So I sugest 
that we, all of us, change ourselves for the better and exhibit the 
qualities that we admire the most...in the face of intolerance be 
tolerant and when bashed don't return fire, because if we do, we also 
condemn ourselves. So as we sit behind these battlements forged of our 
own indignation, remember that to see our own worst enemy all we have to 
do is look in a mirror.
                thank you all for bearing with me on this great flaming 
speach from another fustrated much bashed witch.
                                        Blessed Be,
                                                 Liam

------------------
liam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Liam)  or  liam%brewich@lobster.hou.tx.us
The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:33:12 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis

In article <77822@ut-emx.uucp>, amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik) writes:
> 
> Well, lessee...
> 
> Of course there's Patricia Kennealy's Keltiad series.  Wonderful
> stuff.  Can't recommend it highly or vociferously enough.  Great
> prose, Celtic sources, wonderful characters... okay, I'll stop raving.

**RANT MODE ON**

I have register disagreement here. I waded through the first one and
found the whole premise to be very forced and the writing to be
*terrible*. The author was trying to coast by with atmospherics rather
than tight writing and was obviously counting on the sense of wonder
evoked by the whole idea to carry the book(s). 

**RANT MODE OFF**

All IMHO, of course.

Richard
(Tuneweaver)
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:19:33 GMT
 <Rs1qPB4w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>
 <1992Aug19.171132.13307@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
 <2A92AA60.4093@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Organization: University of Maine System

ok, my opinion on How to Number the Bitch Goddesses:

Bitch Goddess Number One: Amanda (she was here first)
Bitch Goddess Number Two: ailsa (i've been here for three years now)
Bitch Goddess Number Three: Janis (who turned up in the last, what
                                   nine months to a year?)
Bitch Goddess Number Four: um...  the newest Bitch Goddess, whose
                           name this bitch godddess has unaccountably
                           misplaced...

now we can get numerological about what these numbers mean and all that
stuff.  B)

_friday_...  i'd reread to see if there was indeed wicca in it, but my
copy adorned a garbage heap a long, long time ago.  yet another capapble
woman who would fuck anything, even if it DIDN'T move, and whose brain
turned to mush once she got herself knocked up.  heinlein's stuff was
good considering white preceded it, but the old sf was all written by
for and about straight white men.  none of these guys had the vaguest
clue how to write a female character, and heinlein gets a few points
for trying, but not that many...

                                           -ailsa
Newsgroups: alt.pagan