From: frantz@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Sex and Horror
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:48:08 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

In article <1992Aug20.101846.638@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>, J1300DAF@vm.univie.
> ------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
> Path: news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!u
> From: frantz@bvc.edu
> Newsgroups: alt.horror
> Subject: Re: Sex and Horror
> Message-ID: <1992Aug19.125424.1829@bvc.edu>
> Date: 19 Aug 92 12:54:24 CDT
> References: <1992Aug19.092319.23281@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>
> Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
> Lines: 78
>
> In article <1992Aug19.092319.23281@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>, J1300DAF@vm.uni
>>
D
>> on Barker and his use of sex. It has been said, that he uses to
>> much sex (or features of deviant sex) in his works. In fact, by
>> doing so, he follows a tradition  of the genre. Horror is IMO
>> based on the fear of sex and the fear of death. Much of the classic
>> stuff is really very openly about sex: the vampire is a sexual
>> fantasy (think of Stoker's description of the 3 vampire ladies),
>> an other example is the topic of the split-personality (werewolf,
>> Jeckyll/Hyde), living out his sexual needs and therefore to be
>> punished. The same appears in some modern filoms (e.g. Halloween,
>> Friday the 13th), here are the teenagers to be punished (for having
>> sex). I don't want to start a discussion on Freud (libido and
>> thanatos and so on ...), but this concept fits perfectly.
>>
>> Barker seems to be afraid of sex, and thats why he writes about it.
>> Why he often uses deviant forms of sexuality, is IMO clear: the
>> tolerance level of society has changed. Sexual taboos, which where
>> frightening at Stoker's time (sexual relationships without formal
>> binding, homosexuality), have lost their terrifying power. So Barker
>> uses harder stuff, but not to exploit them in a cheap way. I think
>> he only wants to show that there are forms of sexuality beyond our
>> "normal" understanding ... and he wants to show how frightening sex can
>> be. The combination of sex and hurt seems to be his major obsession,
>> and he uses it in a very exciting way in his work ... perhaps to get
>> rid of that obsession. When I was reading the Books of Blood, I felt
>> sometimes, that here is a person, who uses writing as a kind of therapy.
>>
>> King also seems to be afraid of sex, that's why he doesn't write
>> about it. Obviously he is unable to write about that matter in an
>> open way, but I got the impression that is is always there. Many of his
>> figures are sexually frustrated. He said somewhere in an interview,
>> that one thing he is really afraid of, is the vagina dentata, so that
>> fits into the picture. King's main topic are the fears of children,
>> and one the fears of children is the fear of sex. I liked this theory
>> about the gang sex scene in IT, stating that the children used sex
>> to strengthen their bond. But think of an other possibility: IT
>> represents the sum of their childhood fears (isolation, division
>> from their parents and so on). By overcoming their fear of sex
>> they prepared to meet It. After they had successfully done away
>> with this big taboo, the were ready to destroy the rest of their
>> fears.
>>
>> Well, just speculating ...
>>
>>     - Oliver
>>
>> "I never drink ... wine." (The Count)
>
> Wow!  FAscinating thoughts here, Oliver.  I'd never considered your theory
> of the children in It preparing to meet their fear by conquering one of
> their own (one that certainly is shared by all adolescents as you rightly
> point out.)  It's interesting, and I like it a lot more than my original
> response to that scene which was to think: This is totally pointless and
> I'm pissed that King's editor didn't cut this.  Thanks.
>
> On Barker, though, I guess I'm not totally convinced that his use of it is
> therapeutic for his own fear.  Guess I'd like to stay away from
> psychoanalyzing the writer himself and stick with what's in front of me.
> On that note, I have to say that I think Barker's work has an air of
> experimentation to it that doesn't really translate to dealing with fear of
> sex.  No, there's too much joy and fun he communicates in many of his sex
> scenes to really convince me that sex and human sexuality is something to
> be feared.  Yes, you're right.  There are many sex scenes in his work which
> are disturbing and attached, as it were, to destruction.  I could cite
> scenes in Weaveworld when the ghost sisters rape the protagonist or
> certainly a number of similar abuses in Imajica.  But I think there's
> enough to counter those which suggests simply that Barker enjoys exploring
> the bounds of human sexuality and sees it as an integral part of our
> existence.  In the end this suggests to me that sex is absolutely *not*
> something to fear, but also *not* something that we should let take us over
> , either.
>
> Further thoughts?
>
> Andrea @ BVC
>
>
> Yes, you're right. I pointed out that fear-of-sex-thing to strong.
> (Perhaps due to my after all still limited skills in English as a
> foreign language). There is also a lot of "Joy of Sex" (pun not
> intended|) in Barker's work. But after all, when you look at
> the Hellraiser and the thematically related material, you will
> find sex very closely associated with violence and pain. That's okay
> by me, because sex (especially good sex) in fact IS frightening and
> just a heartbeat away from violence. (And I am NO member of the
> SM department|||) Barker simply goes one step further than "normal"
> relationships: he takes the step from passion to pain (like
> some other authors did before, like de Sade)
>
>      - Oliver
>
> "I never drink ... wine." (The Count)

I hadn't thought about good sex really being just a heartbeat away from
violence, but I suppose you're right on that mark, too.  I haven't read
Hellraiser yet, unfortunately, so your referece to that work was lost on me
.  However, I get a hint of what you're talking about from several of his
other works.  There's a great short story (I think it's in the Inhuman
Condition, but I can't be sure of that) about a man who serves as a "lab
rat" of sorts for an experiemental new aphrodisiac.  I'm sorry I can't
remember the name of the story, but it exemplifies precisely what you're
talking about here.

By the way, you have no need to apologize for your lack of perfection with
the English language.  I hadn't paid any attention to the mail address on
your previous posts and was, in fact, surprised when I saw you were writing
from the University of Vienna.  Your English is better than many native
speakers I've read on the net.  Ah....would that my German had remained as
good as your English is now.

Andrea @ BVC
>
  Thanks a lot.

    - Oliver
Newsgroups: alt.horror