Newsgroups: soc.culture.croatia,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: Credibility of Helsinki Watch, Amnesty International - II
From: stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic)
Date: 2 Jan 93 12:53:35 EST
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

For some reason Joe Blazic decided to start again some November 
discussions here. Why, it is up to him to say.  If he needed
two months to come out with answers, that tells something.


In article <C07C78.Ip3@ecf.toronto.edu> blazic@ecf.toronto.edu (BLAZIC Joseph R) writes:

>[This is a reply to a now expired posting.  /J.B.]
>
>> Date: 5 Nov 92 01:27:07 GMT

>>> 
>> Seriously, thanks for sending me HW reports on Croatia.  Although
>> they were posted here few times, and after reading them carefully 
>
>No, the reports I sent you were never posted on Usenet.  Stop playing
>games.  

I read it few times around.  Through many different networks.
Forwarded from both Serbian and Croatian networks. When I said 
here, I refered to my terminal.

>> that is because such is the situation on the field.  This is incorrect,
>> because you have to take into accounts willingness of the sides to 
>> cooperate with such organisations.  Different Serbian groups are reluctant
>> to cooperate with HW for different reasons ( political, emotional,
>> historical ). 
>
>What a load of garbage.  They had NO difficulty in co-operating with
>Helsinki Watch and Amnesty Internation in cases of killings/beatings/
>harassment *of* Serbs, for example several cases in Sisak and the big one
>in Gospic.  So, your "argument" is fraudulent at best.
>

No, I think that your comprehension of this claim is slightly impaired.
If you read carefully most serious cases mentioned in Croatia started
in Croatia proper to be discussed.  Gospic was big case in 
"DANAS." Even Paraga mentioned it when he accused pres. Tudjman of
trying to put all the blame on HOS.  Korana bridge also. 
Cases were tracked down by HW representatives. Then Yu-army would help.
  
Official position of Yu-army is that it was an internal matter 
and they should deal with rebels, not some HW.  Croatia did not 
have the same approach. 

Serbia proper had problems with HW and Kosovo, where HW allegedly 
refused to listen to Serbs in Kosovo and their grievances.  Ever since
they mistrust AI/HW.

Again, I find it wrong, but I am not the policy-maker.
Serbs should have used HW for propaganda purposes, like 
Croat are.

>> 	- Furthermore, HW methodology allows using them as a propaganda
>> tool.  As described in the interview you have posted here, they 
>> "...interview, ...then interview...."
>
>In that interview with the president of Helsinki Watch, she stated that
>when they interview people, they cross-examine their stories.  

So Joe,  have you lied when you accused me that I said that they did not
"cross-interview" people?  This quote does not prove that.

>Your 
>assumption that they print whatever someone tells them is making an
>assumption about how they work.  

My assumption?  Your assumption of my assumption, you mean.
Again, five people from the same village will have 60% convergent 
stories to begin with. Even without preparations.
And as they, the best lie is the one which has high percentage of
truth. 

Joe, you should be more careful.  Last time you have accused me
of " big lie" and it came out to be discussion whether quick is
quick enough, or it is not quick enough.  Calm down and think
twice before you accuse me of something. 


>
>> 	- By making political statements they loose credibility and 
>> loose any chances that Serbian side will cooperate with them.
>
>The "Serbian side" had no problems co-operating with them in the 
>letter to Franjo Tudjman, or any other part of a HW or AI report
>that documented offenses against Serbs.

Nope, again most of the letter was based on cooperation elicited
by HW, not the one offered.  Yu-army tried to prosecute war-criminals
by themselves.  


>
>Milan: aren't you embarrassed to be revising week-old history that
>most of the honest world has recognized and condemned??
>

Joe: aren't you embarrassed not to know the difference between history and 
daily politics?  "Week old history" - sure. 

>/Joe Blazic

Regards,

Milan N. Stojanovic

P.S.  You should spend your New Year holiday in much better way 8-).
No parties around 8-)? 
P.P.S. You must be very happy for HW report on Bosnia.  Every 
second reference is by Chuck Sudetic, NYT reporter of Croatian 
origin.  That is the way "history" is made. That is why he should be
exposed right now.

 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.croatia