From: bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon)
Subject: Re: Beer (Was: Re: Our daily philosophy question)
Keywords: beer
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Sydney
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:05:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.134545.9767@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> horn@tegan.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Horn) writes:
>In one of his ranting and raving moods Robert Vernon writes:
>>!@#$%^&*()
>>OK fine.  Just don't drink any that someone else buys.  
>
>Which, is exactly what I do (I realize you may have been addressing someone who
>responded to my post).  I do, however, feel free to indulge in someone else's
>root beer when a case of that happens to come along.

Actually I was swearing at one or two people from my dropzone, who
wouldn't know what Usenet was anyway.  Someones post started me and I
got a little carried away.  Sorry.  Feel free to kneecap me as
punishment.

>>At other DZs, it is a very important
>>part of the social scene.  And the social scene, to me, is almost as
>>important as the skydiving itself.
>
>#define SOAP_BOX
>
>I don't care how important a part of the social scene buying beer is.  I will 
>NOT support someone else's drinking.  If you want to drink, it's your life
>and you can do as you will.  I, however, will NOT buy your beer ... unless,
>of course, it's root beer.  If you want me to participate in the tradition, 
>that's fine.  I'll buy as much root beer as you want (almost no one wants it),
>but as soon as you want to get drunk off of my money, I'm sorry but I control
>my purse strings, and I decline.

Now that attitude I can understand.  I know a lot of non-drinking
skydivers, which may seem unusual the way this thread is developing,
but it is true.  They have opinions ranging from simply "I don't drink"
to even stronger than yours.  My !@#$%^&() above was meant for those
who do drink, who do take from the case, who never buy their own, and
then complain when no one wants to do star-crest with them.  I
apologize again for mis-directing.

>The fact that this attitude, more than my talents as a jumper, has kept me 
>off of dives, disgusts me.

Well I would be too.  I've never heard of anyone being kept off dives
because they don't drink.  More the reverse.  I've personally kicked
people off a load who hadn't recovered from the night before.

On the other hand, it is always easier to get onto dives if you are in
the dropzone clique.  That usually means socializing in the after jump
gathering place.  And if thats a bar, then most people will drink.

>                            It also suggests that the drinking is MORE
>important than the skydiving.

No.  Skydiving is a given.  Thats why you are down there in the first
place.  Once the sun sets, you can't skydive so you do something to
pass time.  Mingle/drink/boast/watch videos/dirtdive/lie/eat are all
common accepted ways of doing this.  The case rule is part of that
scene, that fill in when we can't jump period.

>>Because its a tradition.  
>>You either accept them [traditions], change them, or remain an outsider.
>
>Or you ignore them and hope that people will respect you for having ideas that
>may be different from the tradition.  Some will, others won't.

Thats sort of what I said (change them).  There was a serious four way
team here a few years ago, that drank nothing but mineral water.  That
would have been unheard of 10 years ago, but nowadays the serious
teams are all going that way.

>>But when I do something worth buying for, then I know.
>
>So do I.
>
>Don't get me wrong.  It's not the tradition of sharing a significant
>achievement with friends that bothers me.  It's the fact that it has to be done
>over alcohol that drives me crazy!  You don't need to know my reasons for this.
>I don't suspect you care.  

You don't have to tell me in public.  But if we jumped at the same
dropzone, then I would ask.

>There are two things that you can count on from me at a Drop Zone:
>	a) I won't drink anyone else's beer
>	b) I won't buy the beer (unless it's root beer).

You can buy me a Coke.  You can't get root beer down here, except in
obscure places.  I don't even know what it tastes like (and I'm not
sure I want to).


Bob V!