HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: atari users, go home!
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:53:55 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange

In article <1992Aug21.1076.26893@dosgate> "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com> writes:
>
> This is an Amiga conference, while I am open to hearing about new machines
>I am not in the mood to read the same message worded 15,000 different ways.
>Please stop your Amiga bashing, if Amiga users want to read about the Atari
>Falcon then they will view the Atari nets. 

   Amen. Thank you. I couldn't say it any better. 

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: New Machines as of September
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 03:40:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.213129.6247@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> gfm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (George Francis McBay) writes:
>	I personally believe that the A4000/1200s (Or whatever they end up
>being named) WILL be announced in September... The scary part is: With
>a price like that on the A3000/040 just imagine how much the 4000 will cost, 
>it will be a total flop. (On the other hand, maybe they have Surface Mounted
>it and did some serious cost reduction, for which Commodore will get flamed 
>just the same)

   People often accuse me of being unreasonable, but I have never flamed 
Commodore for surface-mounting, and never will.  As long as some protection
is provided for chips that connect to ports on the outside (especially the
CIAs), surface mounting is a good thing.  I do not like a closed, nearly
unupgradable box like the A600, though, but this has nothing to do with
surface-mounting.  (It just happens that the A600 is both unupgradable and
surface mounted)  I also will never flame Commodore for developing a new chip
that is not pin-compatible with an older version.  Even Motorola abandoned
pin-compatibility after the 68010.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
  "The ides of September cometh..."
From: robert.buonincontro@canrem.com (robert buonincontro)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: real prices!
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:50:46 GMT
Reply-To: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

To all those users who complain about the pricing of an Amiga 3000.
What planet are you guys shopping on? I have been looking at some ads
in a local computer paper. The prices on I've found for an Amiga 3000
are in the range of $2200-$2599. These prices are for a 25 mhz 3000.
 
I have also seen some ads for 486 based computers. The prices for a 486 with
simular specs range in the area of $1888-$2499. I don't consider the A3000
prices outrages when they are compared to those prices. Yes I saw some ads
for 486 computers selling for $1299. Since this price was cheaper then
other 486 systems, I dediced to call the company. I asked them if the price
was correct and what came with the system. The guy told me the price was 
an addon for the 386 price. The 386 sold for $1199 and he said 'you have to 
add $1299 to $1199 to get the price of the 486'. I said 'what!' he said 'you
didn't really think a 486 sold for $1299 did you!' 
 
 In case you don't know these prices are Canadian. With the current exchange
rate I would say an Amiga 3000 would sell for $2000 in the US. Please stop
saying the Amiga 3000 has a Suggested Retail price of $5000. A Suggest Retail
price isn't even close to what a product usually sells for. It's merly a guide.
A good example is US Robotics, I called them to find out their prices of a
US Robotics Dual Standard. They said the SRP was $1299 US! Local stores
are selling them for $899 Canadian.
---
 ~ DeLuxe} 1.12 #8947 ~ I tried the rest but bought the best!!!!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: No AA machines in September -- NOT!
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 06:04:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.204840.25349@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.105449.22906@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>>As an aside, do we know for CERTAIN that the 040 3000T still has the
>>ECS chipset? 
>
>   Yes, we know for certain that the '040 A3000T uses the ECS.  Why?  Because
>this machine is an officially released product, 

	Wrongo, Marc. It is an officially announced and advertised product,
but it has not been released yet and will not be out for another month,
after the September Amiga show, where new announcements might occur. CBM
has stated that the 040 board itself won't be out until next year.

	Look up the shipping dates. I hope it doesn't have ECS, but we will
have to wait and see.

>
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------
>       "Beware the ides of September..."


-- 
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 516-473-5156 AMIGA  DDD-MEN   
     //  bounce-resistant:    dtiberio%libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu@sunysb.edu
   \X/	    Perot for President 1-516-399-2259 Long Island, New York

 	PPPP  EEEEE RRRR   OOO  TTTTT    IIIII N   N      999  2222
	P   P E     R   R O   O   T        I   NN  N     9   9     2
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 	P     E     R R   O   O   T        I   N  NN         9 2
 	P     EEEEE R  R   OOO    T      IIIII N   N     9999  22222
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rhealey@kas.helios.mn.org (Rob Healey)
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:43:47 GMT
Organization: Rob's home system, Hopkins, MN

In article <1992Aug11.164451.10918@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
[ CD-I related info deleted ]
=	Conersation with Radio Shack salesman in shopping mall:
=
=	ME: Have you sold any of these things?
=
=	RS: We did at Cristmas when it was $800, but at $600 we haven't sold
=	    any and probably won't.
=
=	ME: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ... yeah, like I'm going to pay $260 for
=	    a 13 inch TV ... HA HA HA ... oh, and $360 is good for a car CD
=	    player without a radio ... HA HA HA ... and I like $260 2 head
=	    VCRs and $1000 camcorders that sell for $700 in other stores ...
=
	When Mall of America opened up this week I went spelunking around,
	the place IS big, about 2.5 hours to walk around it without stopping
	to window shop, anyways, in Sears CD-I had a huge crowd around it
	with THOUSANDS of people per hour passing by. Nobody in the crowd
	knew what I was talking about when I said, "Looks like a CDTV",
	when I tried to explain the universal response was along the lines
	of "C=, isn't that the cheesy little computer company? I'd rather
	buy from somebody I can trust like Sears" B^(. From a Joe Sixpack
	buyer's point of view CD-I can do anything CDTV can do. Even from
	my point of view it was doing all I've ever seen the CDTV packages
	do except for pull a transformation into an Amiga 500...

	Off hand I'd say CDTV is in serious trouble to say the least, especially
	if major Sears outlet's are showing them off in the computer section.
	Off hand I'd say more people saw that 1 CD-I unit this past week than
	all of the US has seen the CDTV in the pasy year or so. NOT good C=.

		-Rob
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: Erik S. Kolar <ekolar@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: CBM, Advertising, Etc...
Keywords: CBM ADVERTISING
Organization: Only Amiga Makes It Possible!
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:04:29 -0500

Well, I don't know if this is old news or not, but I saw a funky little ad for
CDTV on the Prevue Guide cable channel around 5am this morning.  My mouth was
left wide open in astonishment after seeing a real C= advertisement.  :-)

And Merisel (sp?) sounds like it has the right idea...


-- 
-=+> Erik Scott Kolar                                      ,_,             <+=-
-=+> Internet:  ekolar@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu               /oo \  _.-.      <+=-
-=+> Bitnet:  ekolar@iubacs                               <>__| /- O O     <+=-
-=+> DISCLAIMER:  The opinions expressed are my own.      |  U|    \|      <+=-
-=+> I do not speak for Indiana University or UCS.     "What is it, man?"  <+=-
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:21382 comp.sys.atari.st:12309
From: hrs@aber.ac.uk (Herbert Martin Sauro)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon 030 specs released!  No more rumor...
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:45:30 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

I've heard that the new Amiga will also have a dsp chip, is this true?

Herb
-- 
/******************************************************************************
Herbert Sauro                                   e-mail: hrs@aber.ac.uk
Biological Sciences                              phone: +44 970 622353
Univesity College of Wales                                                    
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:21944 comp.sys.amiga.misc:12874
From: spice@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:30:03 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <34495@cbmvax.commodore.com>, campbell@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Campbell - CATS) writes:
> In article <1992Aug19.051511.21091@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
> 
>>   If all that Commodore can manage to develop after more than two years is
>>a standalone player, AmigaVision might as well be dead.
> 
> We have released three separate version since its introduction, each with
> more features than the previous versions.
> 
> The new version will have much more than a standalone player, and we will
> announce those new features on comp.sys.amiga.multimedia in the middle of
> September.
> 
>>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
> 
> John Campbell
> Director, Commodore Applications and Technical Support


Mr Campbell , first I want to say thanks for appearing here on the 
Internet. Its reassuring to see a fairly high-up Commodore official actually
listening to what we Amiga owners have to say instead of being ignored
as we usually are. About the AmigaVision upgrade, do you have any idea
how much the upgrade will cost?


                               Scott Corley

spice@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
From: breaker@pdnfido.fidonet.org (Guy Sisalli)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: atari users, go home!
Date: 23 Aug 92 05:31:39 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: The Source for Source Pub Access Unix

In article <1992Aug21.1076.26893@dosgate> "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com> writes:
>
>                              **ATTENTION**
>                                   ALL
>                      **ATARI USERS INVADING THIS NET**
> 
> If the Atari Falcon is as good as you people say it is then people will
>buy it. If the Atari Falcon is not a good machine then people will pass
>it by. If Amiga users are interested in the Atari Falcon' they will
                                         .
                                         .
                                         .
>
> If any Amiga users agree with what I have said and these users continue
>with their Amiga bashing, then I invite you to post some information about
>the 'AA' chipset, the new Amigas ect. in the Atari Usenet conferences.


Atari has a Usenet conference?!? 8^)
>---
> ~ DeLuxe} 1.12 #8947 ~ I tried the rest but bought the best!!!!
>--
>Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
>World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Some old dude   ///
USENET: breaker@pdnfido.fidonet.org                Amiga 2000         ///
       "At your service, citizen!" - The Computer                    ///
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 15:28:26 GMT

In <1992Aug23.005224.10653@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>And what, may I ask, does CG stand for?

(AGFA) CompuGraphic.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.multimedia
From: jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young)
Subject: MPC WORLD review  Re: CDTV is dead.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 04:21:48 GMT

Many people said July/August MPC WORLD magazine compared CDTV and CDI (not
Nintendo).  Someone please post copy of review?
From: fettig@disco-sol (Thomas &)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: where is 1024*768?
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:40:59 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: DFKI
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

robert.buonincontro@canrem.com (robert buonincontro) writes:
: GG>leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
: >I recommend C= increase depth and speed, rather than work on higher and
: >higher resolutions... and make enhanced higher resolution available to
: >those who are willing to spend the bucks it takes to get a 16" or 17"
: >monitor or higher.
: 
: GG>That sounds like Apple's strategy with the Mac.  The good Macs still cost
: GG>big bucks.
: 
: GG>-- Gerald
: 
:  The bad ones cost big bucks too!  <-=JOKE!
: ---
:  ~ DeLuxe} 1.12 #8947 ~ I tried the rest but bought the best!!!!
: --
: Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
: World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044

X-Pert just announced their VGA-like Graphics Card for Amigas with >68020.
It contain's an ET 4000, will be programmable and have Workbench support.
(I think 68020 is needed for it?)

Supported Resolutions :
640x480      16 and 256 colors and 72 (60) Hz
800x600      16 and 256 colors and 72 (60) Hz
1024x768     16 and 256 colors and 72(87i) Hz
1152x900     16 and 256 colors and 59 Hz
1280x1024    16 colors and 87i Hz

32k colors  possible with
640x480 in 72 (60) Hz   and
800x600 in 60 (60) Hz.

WB supports up to 16 colors.

numbers in () for 38khz monitor (Nec 3d), others for monitor
with 57khz (Nec 4d).  Many other resolution are programmable, 
as long not more than 1 Mb ram is needed and Pixelrate is lower 
than 80 MHz.  Regular Amiga-resolutions are passed-through.

Palette:  256K Colors.

Good news to you ? (-:)

But you will call it vaporware, as there is only advertizing but no delivery yet.(september (P-))

X-Pert has a really good reputation here in germany, i think the card it is 
as finished as the advertizing suggests and will be good.


And Price? well about 698,- DM,  that is 440$ !!!!!

I think it will be brought to US too .... if Dr. Kittel doesn't stop them (-:).


  Greets

	Thomas


===============================================================================
Thomas Fettig // Dekan-Albrecht 10 // 6653 Blieskastel // 06842-2249
 	fettig@dfki.uni-sb.de fettig@cs.uni-sb.de
    I really hate this damned machine / I wish that they would sell it
    It never does quite what I want   / But only what I tell it.
===============================================================================
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: DIR
Date: 13 Aug 92 02:41:50 GMT
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana

In article <1992Aug13.021424.21609@newshost.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>>>As for cpu power, the 486-50 beats it by quite a few marks.  A 040-25 only
>>>has the performance of a 486-33 cpu.  But if you compare a 040-33, well
>>>that may be another story.  
>>
>>heh heh, but the day you show me that 040-33 Amiga, I'll haul up 
>>an Intel 80486DX2-66Mhz machine.. :) :) :)
>>
>>(They really do exist, you know)
>>
>
>	Not to mention the fact that the 040 Amiga is selling for $5100.
>    I'll bet you will be able to get a loaded 486DX2-66 for a lot less
>    then that.

Verily, Gregory!  Gosh, we TKKCers are right on mark *again*.  ;-)

>							G.Greene
--
*Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 
*"It reminds me of something Cally said. 'He who trusts cannot be
*betrayed, only mistaken.' It was a saying of her people.... Cally is
*dead. So are most of her people." -Avon, from _Rescue_ (Blakes 7)
From: adrake@bluemoon.rn.com (Andy Drake)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: New Machines as of September
Date: 11 Aug 92 20:19:58 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])

Sorry to crush any A4000 rumors, but as of the September issue of 
AmigaWorld, Commodore is now selling an '040 A3000T complete with monitor 
for something like $5999.00 retail US.  On the otherhand, if the AA 
machine actually do come out later this year, why bring out an ECS '040 
machine? Hmmm, makes ya wonder.....


                        -Andy

 This is from
     adrake@bluemoon.rn.com
who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: HPFS Re: Amiga file system
Date: 17 Aug 92 05:16:31 GMT
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana

Can anyone tell me the fundamental differences between the
Amiga file system, and the OS/2 2.0 High Perfirmace File System?
Can anybody here do it?  Keep in mind, I am NOT, I repeat: am NOT
looking for *opinions*, merely objective statements, like 
'Amiga filename max length=' and 'OS/2 max length=', etc.

Thanks-

--
*Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 
*"It reminds me of something Cally said. 'He who trusts cannot be
*betrayed, only mistaken.' It was a saying of her people.... Cally is
*dead. So are most of her people." -Avon, from _Rescue_ (Blakes 7)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: Clones = Kludges ?
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 09:28:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.035014.22539@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au> davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
>But, that doesn't make me want to
>give up the Amiga - it simply means that PCs aren't as bad an alternative as
>they used to be.  No matter how well they perform, how much software there is,
>how good that software is, and how cheap they are, they're still kludges,
>from their Intel cpus to their 8 MHz 16-bit AT busses and conflicting localbus
>standards, and I just don't want that sort of thing as MY computer.  I want
>the best, and that's Amiga.

I agree with some of what you are saying, but I do find it hard to
fault modern PCs as kludges anymore.  

CPUs - The Intel CPUs go so damn fast (and the P5 is still coming) 
that it is pretty irrelevant that the instruction
set is not orthogonal/no GP registers etc.  Most people don't program
in assembler anymore, and while it may still affect the performance
of compiler generated code, Intel has the edge and looks like keeping it.

AT Bus - On new machines, such as the Dell that Mike bought, almost
everything you need is on a high-speed local bus (memory, video, hard
disk).  This is enough for most people's needs.

Local Bus Standards - The only argument I've seen against local bus
on this group is the lack of a standard, which might prevent you from 
sticking in a new video card from another manufacturer.  However
this is exactly the same as the present Amiga setup!  This may be
in the process of being rectified, but Intel and the clone manufactures 
are currently trying to achieve local bus standards.

(Other stuff, not directed at David).

Operating Systems - We used to call DOS a kludge, and this was quite
justified.  However OS/2 2.0 (and the coming NT) cannot be similarly
labeled.

It is hard for some Amiga owners to accept that we have fallen behind
when we were once so far ahead.  That doesn't mean we should all 
drop-kick our Amigas and buy clones; the Amiga still has definite
advantages in some areas (I love my screens :-)).

But we shouldn't bury our heads in the sand and say things 
like "Users don't need memory projection or virtual memory".  
It sounds so hypocritical considering the flames wars that
used to rage in these groups against Atari/IBM/Mac about multitasking,
or rather, the lack of it.

>David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au

-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
  "And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.atari.st
From: dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Your Conscience)
Subject: Re: Falcon 030 specs released!  No more rumor...
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:57:13 GMT

>>No. MultiTOS is the gross/disgusting ST-TOS with Eric Smith's PD MiNT
>>package (ironically, it stands for MiNT is Not TOS) hacked in. MiNT
>>replaces the ST's BIOS with traps to it's own multitasking BIOS
>>routines. Programs must be linked with MiNT to multitask and last time I
>>used an ST (admittedly a long while ago), it only could run 1 GEM app at
>>a time regardless of how it was linked. In a word, when compared to an
>>actual OS, MultiTOS SUCKS. Even if it were better integrated, it would
>>still be suck when compared to much more featureful OSes such as

This is absolutely incorrect! I've seen it in action, I even got to test it out
to a certain extent, and it is *wonderful*! I'm so impressed I'm actually 
speachless. We're talking Amiga-level multitasking here guys, with the sole 
exception of floppy-disk access (stops everything else on the ST, while the 
Amiga will keep on chugging along). I saw it in action on a Mega-4 with 
AdSpeed, and it was *FAST*, three copies of a line-drawing program were up (in 
high-rez color on a graphics board of some type), a program was loading a GIF
in the background, a clock was functioning (the hands were moving correctly), a
TOS program was checking-off the percentage of cpu time each program was using,
text was being entered into a text editor all at the SAME TIME! AND, during 
this, it was decided to *really* stress the system out, so about 20 megs in 
files were grabbed and copied from one partition to another, no *that* slowed 
things down a bit, but everything still worked, and the file copying just took 
place in the background! (this did not work when tried with a floppy disk...)

I was not expecting anything even *remotely* as professional and excellent as 
this. Prepared to be very *happy* if this ever actually gets produced.
---------------------------------------------------------------------->
|-) -David Butler- dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

  |||        - FRANK ZAPPA for president! "One of his best qualifications is
 / | \         that at least he won't take it seriously." - Jammer
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy