HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Money for Magick?
Distribution: world
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:27:58 PDT
Organization: Shades of Reality BBS - Medford, Oregon

In a message dated Tue  7 Apr 92 17:26, Tim@hoptoad.uucp (tim Maroney)
wrote:

>Besides, would you trust an initiation you had to pay for -- with
>money?

 TM> Many people do.  They are called "O.T.O. members".

Do you know of any organizations that have enough money to absorb the cost
of initiations and initiate for free?

Gerald

-- Via DLG Pro v0.991
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: OES and Pentagrams
Date: 5 Apr 92 19:20:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <Idrmt9e00YVXE2dO4s@andrew.cmu.edu>, sk4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Shawn Clayton Knight) writes...
>the OES (thank you, i forgot to clarify) is the Order of the Eastern
>Star.  its roots are in "Adoptive Masonry" which indeed was originally
>an order for Masons' wives and daughters.  i do not believe membership
>any longer requires this.  however, a mason (of i believe at least
>Master degree 3) has an official seat in each OES chapter, that being
>Worthy Patron.  he is there to advise, and act as a liaison between the
>OES chapter and the local Masons' lodge.

Sounds sexist to me.

>further questions may be addressed to me.  having observed/participated
>in some OES rituals, such as my mother's installation as Worthy Matron
>(roughly speaking = President), i know some stuff on the subject.  i am
>not at liberty to discuss some of it, e.g. the signs and pass signals,
>many of which i do not even know :).
> 

Reminds me of this OTO guy I heard recently giving a talk.  Said something 
like "I could say a word of power right now but I won't because I took an 
oath not to."

>shawn

*Very* impressed.

- Peggy -
From: dwatson@lookout.uswest.com (Darryl D. Watson)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Money for Magick?
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:45:15 GMT
Organization: US WEST Communications

In article <Gerald_Del_Campo.002t@sorinc.UUCP>, Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo) writes:
> In a message dated Tue  7 Apr 92 17:26, Tim@hoptoad.uucp (tim Maroney)
> wrote:
> 
> >Besides, would you trust an initiation you had to pay for -- with
> >money?
> 
>  TM> Many people do.  They are called "O.T.O. members".
> 
> Do you know of any organizations that have enough money to absorb the cost
> of initiations and initiate for free?
> 
> Gerald
> 
> 
Folks, perhaps the injunction against accepting money for
magickal services (such as initiation) is a "rule of
thumb" to help protect against getting too worked up about
money!  After all, isn't the point to learn Magick?

Most of you have probably observed that charlatans and
quacks charge lots 'o bucks for their 'services'; it is
reasonable to wonder if there is a relationship between
money-chasing and hokey magicians.

This debate reminds me of a story told to me by a friend:

There were two Buddhist monks traveling together, and they
came to a stream.  Standing at the bank was a Geisha (sp?).
The monks greeted her, and prepared to wade through the
water to the other side.  The maiden announced that she, 
too, wanted to cross the stream, but couldn't swim.  The
two monks looked at one another, and one of them set off
to wade across.  The other knelt down, and the Geisha 
pulled up her robes to her waist, and climbed on his back.
The second monk crossed the stream, and let her down on the
other side, then joined the first monk, and they were on
their way.

They both walked for about a hour before the first monk,
who had been barely able to contain himself, finally stopped
and exclaimed, 'Wait, Brother!  You know our Order strictly
prohibits us from having contact with women!  And yet you
picked that girl up, and carried her across the stream!
Why did you do that?'

The second monk stared at the first for a moment, and then
said, gently, 'I set her down on the other side of the
water.  Why are YOU still carrying her?'
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Monday, 13 Apr 1992 08:26:59 EDT
From: John A. Johnson <J5J@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: masonic morals & dogma
 <92101.145414J5J@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Apr11.225018.2209@acsu.buffalo.edu>

In article <1992Apr11.225018.2209@acsu.buffalo.edu>,
oispeggy@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) says:
>
>In article <92101.145414J5J@psuvm.psu.edu>, J5J@psuvm.psu.edu (John A.
>Johnson) writes...
>>By "the" Catholic Church you surely mean the Roman Catholic Church.
>>The LCC regards the RC church as pretty degenerate because the changes
>>in ritual have resulted in a loss of magickal efficacy.
>
>What exactly is the LCC?
>
>- Peggy -

I'll quote from "An Introduction to The Liberal
Catholic Church," by Parry & Rivett, published by St. Alban's Press:
-----------------------
The Liberal Catholic Church arose from the musty religious atmosphere
of the beginning of this century as a reformed part of the Church
Catholic, whithin which thinking and seeking men and women could gain
new and deeper insight into the nature of things, free from a stretched
credulity forn of the unyielding presure of dogma and the restrictive
literalism of most churces, and free from the mummification of religious
thought and worship which is the product of formalism and habit.  In
this Church, too, they could worship in joy, unimpeded by the morbid
sense of personal guilt and insignificance, and that fear of a
wrathful Father, which ahve coloured the Christian ethos for so
many centuries.
--------------
Other points to be found in this tract:

The LCC endorses scientific psychology and parapsychology, and
accepts mysticism and agnosticism as valid states of mind.  It
also "recognises those common doctrines and the mystical experiences
and revel which can be discerned within all the great religions of
the world."

John A. Johnson,
a nonChristian psychologist
I speak neither for Penn State nor for the Liberal Catholic Church
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Where to start.
From: r9h@pandanus.cs.ntu.edu.au (Ecto the Green)
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:28:35 +0900H
Reply-To: r9h@pandanus.cs.ntu.edu.au (Ecto the Green)
Distribution: world
Organization: Computer Science, NTU

I have been living under the impression that to reach a goal, you must start somewhere.

Under this impression, I am imploring to those who know to give me some sort
of starting point, so that my goal of reaching knowledge of Magick, and if
Fate has it, use of the aforementioned, may be reached.

Please reply with whatever you see as fitting to respond to my query.

Rohan.

r9h@pandanus.ntu.edu.au
From: phantom@Bogus.COM (The Internet Phantom)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: The Magic Of David Copperfield
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 05:25:24 CDT
Organization: Bogus.COM -- Public Access Network Services

walrus@bessel.umd.edu (Grig Larson) writes:

> 2: He really did fly
>    A: Facts for
>       1:I have seen levitation spontatious in my friend's hotel room
>       2: Using the Tesla theory of matter rearrangement by particle displace-
>          ment, theoretically, it is possible, but never proved by sheer will.
>       3: I wanna believe he did.

> Okay, I got silly there, but my wife really believes he can fly...

Well, I am not going to say that it is impossible.  A man names John Keely
did research with something called a Krell Helmet that allowed you to do
some very interesting things.  I think that it dealt with amplifying the
brain waves or something.  I can post the article if there is enough interest.

I'd like to be able to fly like that myself.  I was quite impressed with the
trick.  But, it is probably just that, a trick.   It would be awful hard to
explain if it wasn't.  The thing that DID blow my mind the most is when he
went flying with that lady off the stage.  If there WERE any wires, she would
have been able to see them, don't you think?

And what about the plexiglass box?

My first thought before I saw the actual performance was something about
super conductor levitation...

Hmm, I don't know.  But, I will post that krell helmet article if anyone
is interested.  I don't know how to make one, but if someone does, I do
want to try it!




===
* phantom@Bogus.COM (The Internet Phantom) * via CyberSpace Cafe
My opinions are my own.  They may or may not be shared by the management.
From: windsphire@wizard.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: RE: WAR OF THE SOULS
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:03:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: wizard.7APR92.17031986
Organization: UMS

In a previous article, abner.whateley@matrix.sbs.com (Abner Whateley) wrote:

>this done? By the stealing or eating of the `soul-energy' of others in
>the Astral, but this can not be done by force, the person to be "eaten"
>must let the other soul have this energy, now why in the would would
>anybody in their right mind let something like this take place?!?
>  Simple, they think they they are being obedient to God. and who is or
>should I say who are these gods? They are souls that have found a way
>to live non-stop in the Astral without the need to reincarnate to
>`re-charge' and this is done by these people whom I shall call the
>Theocrats through the use of the myths and beliefs of religion, they do
>this by greeting the newly departed in the guise of the figure that is
>most likely to beguile the unknowing soul and take it in as a part of
>the Theocratic that their beliefs best lend themself to, the soul then
>thinking that it has been meet by Jesus, or God, or Joseph Smith or

>  There is a LOT more to this belief system, but I think that everyones
>weird meters have been pegged out enough for now...perhaps more later.
>

Abner-san, my wierdness meter chugged up to *send a reply*. You've
read War in Heaven no doubt? How do we know these theocrats are the ones
spreading this information about maintaining detachment in the astral,
and that by refusal to become absorbed in ones personal pantheon, one
loses all chance of protection, and becomes merely a point-of-light-ego
speck in the beak of the eagle? 

	-Windshpire

	'perfecting the science of imaginary solutions to the
	 laws governing exceptions'
From: Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Money for Magick?
Distribution: world
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:26:29 PDT
Organization: Shades of Reality BBS - Medford, Oregon

In a message dated Tue  7 Apr 92 17:26, Joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (joshua Gelle
wrote:

 JG> the OTO, I am told, requires payments for various initiations. quite
 JG> large
 JG> payments, too, once you get into the higher grades.

0 degree OTO   $20 initiation fee  $20 a year dues
1 degree OTO   $20 initiation fee  $20 a year dues
2 degree OTO   $20 initiation fee  $40 a year dues
3 degree OTO   $20 initiation fee  $60 a year dues

 JG> me, I have never joined any groups.

Why not?

 JG> josh

Gerald

-- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: "Same as above" marks
Date: 09 Apr 92 14:46:14 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

In article <3591@novavax.UUCP> vaccaro@novavax.UUCP (N. Trafford Vaccaro) writes:
[deletions]
>
>Four questions:
>
>1) What is the meaning of "foo" and "bar"? I see them in "C" programming
>   books once in a while, or from "C" programmers.
>

According my managing editor, who edits out references in
our programming docs to foo and bar &c, fubar is Army talk for
"fucked up beyond all relief". And she doesn't want
profanity, even by reference, in the docs. If this is a folk
etymology, I wouldn't be a bit surprised; and if it is
undocumentable, so it goes. But it's gospel around here.

[deletion]
>
>4) My sister and I used to get into "insulting matches". She would
>   eventually say, "I hate you!!!", and to show my sophistication,
>   I would reply, "And I, you!".
>
My preference would be "And I you." But I'm far from being a
punctuation queen myself.

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Only the mediocre can always be at their best." -- Mencken
For an average time write uunet!microsoft!frankm
For an even more mediocre time try frankm@microsoft.com
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: P's and q's
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:35:15 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.060439.7298@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> userisra@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca (Mark Israel) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.160452.12287@eng.cam.ac.uk>, pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk (Philippa Hogben) writes:
>> pete@btcase.bt.co.uk (Pete Harris) writes:
>>> Please could someone enlighten me as to the origin of the phrase ...
>>> mind one's p's and q's
>>
>> I heard is was probably from:
>> "Mind one's pieds (feet) and queues (wigs???)"
>
>Another theory:  children just 
>learning to write may get the letters 'p' and 'q' confused.  Another:
>"Mind your pints and quarts."

The story *I* always heard (maybe I should take this to
alt.folklore.urban) is that it was a phrase used in printing houses,
where the boxes for "p" and "q" type, being right next to one another,
frequently got confused.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,soc.culture.british
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Dictionary of American and British Usage
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 14:21:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <20041@castle.ed.ac.uk> gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.172711.2316@col.hp.com> lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson) writes:
>:gtoal@robobar.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>:> >closet,
>:> Toilet rather than clothes cupboard. Also used in 'coming out of the ...'
>:
>:Nobody caught this yet?? As far as I know 'closet' NEVER means toilet
>:or bathroom in the U.S. It's the little room where the clothes are. Not
>:a cupboard, because that would be an add-on cabinet kind of thing, rather
>:than a little room. (Actually 'clothes cupboard' doesn't parse too well
>:in USAn.)
>
>I wouldn't say that normally either, but since the word here is closet
>or clothes closet, I was trying to use a different word assuming that
>closet had some different meaning for you, and I inferred that it was
>a toilet from the US expression 'coming out of the closet' where it
>clearly means a WC.
>
>Looks like we both mean the same thing by it then.
>

Looks like you're both confused at this point.  You're both close, but
not quite there.  A closet is a small room.  There are clothes closets,
water closets (a more archaic term, seldom used in the USA), broom
closets, linen closets, etc.  

The US expression "coming out of the closet" means "coming out of a small
confining space", and is not taken to mean "coming out of a WC".

 
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: bayla@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bayla Singer)
Subject: Re: Question: Multiply or multiplication ?
Organization: Independent scholar
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 11:40:54 GMT


I replied privately to this questioner, suggesting that the confusion might
arise from the fact that 'multiply' is also an adverb, as in 'singly,
doubly, triply.... multiply.'  On closer reading of the posted responses,
however, I wonder if I was near the mark?  

I.e., to me, 'vectorize the matrix multiply' would mean to perform the
operation <vectorize> repeatedly.  I also hazarded the guess that there was
another word following the phrase 'count the operations in the matrix
multiply', to which the multiply would refer.  

Have I simply added to the confusion?  If so, I hereby apologize.

--bayla
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Webster's on Sentence Adverbs
Date: 14 Apr 92 00:52:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: sgi417.SLAGLE.92Apr13175212
	<SLAGLE.92Apr8223955@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com>
	<204768@unix.cis.pitt.edu>
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co., Sunnyvale, Ca.
In-reply-to: dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu's message of 11 Apr 92 20:43:55 GMT

In article <204768@unix.cis.pitt.edu> dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
   In article <SLAGLE.92Apr8223955@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com> slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com writes:

   >The acceptability of "Truthfully, ..." rests on its ambiguity.

   >Does the meaning of the 
   >sentence change if we just drop it?  If anything it adds only
   >emphasis, not content.

   Are you saying that added emphasis doesn't change the meaning of the 
   sentence?  This may be true of mathematical formulae, but not of utterances
   in practical discourse.

   Emphasis is part of content.  That's why the written language includes a '!'.

----
Are you being deliberately contrary?  In both this and
the previous case the form is of a question, but the
suggestion is that I think the answer is yes this time.
But in the earlier case I am willing to grant that the 
use of the modifier may serve to add some emphasis and 
thereby make some small contribution to the meaning of 
the sentence.  My opinion, however, is that it is just 
unnecessary embellishment.  In any case, I don't care 
for the usage for the reasons stated in the article that
you quote.  Also, if the addition of an exclamation mark
serves the same purpose, then the semantic contribution
of the word truthfully can't be very large.

--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
From: jw@cns.umist.ac.uk (Jon Wells)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: P's and q's
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:20:26 GMT
Organization: UMIST, Manchester, England.

userisra@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca (Mark Israel) writes:

>In article <1992Apr13.160452.12287@eng.cam.ac.uk>, pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk (Philippa Hogben) writes:

>> pete@btcase.bt.co.uk (Pete Harris) writes:
>>
>>> Please could someone enlighten me as to the origin of the phrase ...
>>> mind one's p's and q's
>>
>> I heard is was probably from:
>>
>> "Mind one's pieds (feet) and queues (wigs???)"
>>
>> from the last century I think when the upper social classes went to
>> balls etc and had to be nimble on their feet.  (Not that my history is
>> very good.)
>>
>> Anyone else???

>   That's as good a theory as any.  Another theory:  children just 
>learning to write may get the letters 'p' and 'q' confused.  Another:
>"Mind your pints and quarts."

>   And here's one I just thought of:  a corruption of "Mind your 'please's
>and 'Thank you's."

Congratulations - the latter of these 'ideas' is, in fact, the correct one...

Jon
jon@uk.ac.umist.ccl
From: epp@mala.bc.ca (Lorne Epp)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: thumbing one's nose
Date: 12 Apr 92 00:14:17 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

In article <1992Apr9.150524.3367@rucs.faculty.cs.runet.edu>, jhelm@rucs.faculty.cs.runet.edu (John Helm) writes:
> 
> I have heard the expression "thumbing one's nose at"
> meaning "showing a lack of respect for " for as long
> as remember, but I have never seen anyone perform the
> gesture referred to in this expression.
>    Is there a place where people actually thumb their
> noses to show disrespect?  If so, how is it done, exactly,
> and how much disrespect does it show, compared  to
> other gestures of disrespect such as sticking out one's
> tongue. 

This gesture is also known as "cocking a snook" (anybody know why?).
To thumb your nose, splay the fingers and thumb of one hand, touch the tip
of the thumb to the tip of your nose, and wiggle the fingers. The hand
should be held so that the fingers are vertical and the palm faces sideways.
Emphasis can be added by including the other hand, with its thumb touching
the little finger of the first hand.

I don't know how old the gesture is, but it is described by Mark Twain in
a short piece that has 'Petrified Man' in the title (sorry, that's all
I remember).

My impression is that thumbing one's nose is fairly mild, playful gesture
of defiance or disrespect, but I suppose that could depend on the facial
expression worn while doing it.
From: roger@uvmark.uucp (Roger MacNicol)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: momentarily
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:47:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: uvmark.1992Apr13.154715.45967
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Apr13.051753.1131@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU> ken@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU (Ken Yap) writes:
>Does anybody else wince like I do when I hear momentarily used in:
>
>I'll be with you momentarily.
>
>instead of
>
>I'll be with you shortly. or
>I'll be with you in a moment. or
>I'll be with you in a while.
>
>or a host of other alternatives?

I remember being slightly alarmed when the pilot of a 747 descending into
London Heathrow announced that we would be landing momentarily - I hoped
we would stay on the ground a little longer than that :-)



-- 
 Roger MacNicol, Software Engineer
 Vmark Software, Inc., 5 Strathmore Road, Natick, MA  01760, USA
 email: uvmark%roger@merk.com
 Phone: (508) 655-3700, Fax: (508) 655-8395
From: dmr@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Daniel Rosenblum)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Dictionary of American and British Usage
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:27:42 GMT
Organization: Rutgers University, Graduate School of Management, Newark, N.J.

In <20106@castle.ed.ac.uk> gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graham Toal) writes:

>In article <3Vw5iB3w164w@xocolatl.com>
> ssmith@xocolatl.com (Shannon Smith) writes:
>:>  backlog,
>:> Opposite way round from us!
>:   ???

>     . . . .  *We* take 'backlog' to be a pile of work you haven't done
>and which has to be caught up on urgently.  I *think* I remember the
>US meaning being something more like extra work done in advance so
>that you can take a holiday with a clear conscience.  What we call
>'gold-bricking'.

Nope!  I've never heard my fellow Americans (with a phrase like
that I could be in politics :-) ) use "backlogging" to mean what
you evidently call "gold-bricking".  I've always heard "backlog"
to mean exactly what Mr. Toal takes it to mean, viz. that nagging
pile of work that one has put off.  Indeed, it is used routinely
this way in academia, where scholarly journals are berated
constantly for accumulating such huge _backlogs_ of articles to
be reviewed or, having been accepted, to appear in print.  And in
inventory theory, a topic in the general area of operations
research/operations management/management science, one speaks of
"backlogged orders", i.e. orders for something that wasn't on
hand when the orders came in and which have hence been put on
hold until more supplies arrive.

>:>  valedictorian,
>:> Dux of the school
>:   Dunno what a dux is--valedictorian is the top student by GPA.

>Top pupil in final-year at high-school.  No prizes for second-best :-)

And the salutatorian is the second best student by GPA here in the
States.  We do have prizes for second-best.
-- 
Daniel M. Rosenblum, Assistant Professor, Quantitative Studies Area,
   Graduate School of Management, Rutgers University (Newark Campus)
ROSENBLUM@DRACO.RUTGERS.EDU                      ROSENBLUM@ZODIAC.BITnet
dmr@andromeda.rutgers.edu          ...!rutgers!andromeda.rutgers.edu!dmr
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,soc.culture.british