From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Subject: Cosgrove's Own Words
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
Distribution: talk
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:45:52 GMT


	I'm tired of Cosgrove's whining. Here is one of his posts
	complete.

	Perhaps he can get into a flamefight with himself.....
=================================================================
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Critisizing the victim?
Date: 5 Aug 92 11:52:54 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Aug5.015425.9604@news.cs.indiana.edu>, Amy Young Leith <alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
> In article <VwuLoB2w164w@cellar.org> hacksaw@cellar.org (Hacksaw) writes:
> 
>>  I agree that one never asks to be raped, and that it is never the victim's
>>fault. But, in some cases, I believe too much sympathy is given to the
>>victim; she comes out looking like a saint. Is it wrong to critisize her
>>too?
> 
> I can't believe your analogy... 
> 
>>  I'll make this analogy. A guy owns and expensive car and is naive enough
>>to bring it into a the city. He locks the car, and goes off to do his 
>>business. Ten seconds later the car is gone. No doubt there was a crime 
>>committed here, and he didn't ask for it to be committed. We look at this 
>>guy as an idiot for bringing such a nice car into a high-crime area.
> 
> I don't care how bad the world is, any civilized society SHOULD
> *EXPECT* responsible, mature, respectful behavior between it's
> members.  To settle for less, regardless of the reason, is only
> condemning that behavior.  I should have the right to own whatever I
> wish, and to take it wherever I wish within the law.  If someone is
> going to violate MY rights, I sure as hell should not be blamed for
> it.  

Listen, if I walk down the street with cash bulging from my pockets (low-cut
dress, no bra), alone (alone), in a bad section of town (virtually anywhere
without good lights and other people present), when I get mugged (raped), what
are you going to tell me?

1. Shame on those horrible segments of our society! You have the right to walk
wherever you want, at any time, and not have people violate your rights by
stealing from you.

2. What a stupid thing to do! You should know better than that.

Your world is an idealistic place which we must all try to achieve. However,
until we achieve Utopia, some of us relaize we have to live in this world. If
the man walking down the street with the bulging cash was stupid, the woman in
the bad situation she should know to avoid is also stupid. Yes or no, your
opinion?

> 
>>  I tend to look at some rape victims as "idiots" for putting themselves
>>into a situation. The girl, half-drunk, going into a guys apartment late
>>at night. The girl walking down a dark street wearing clothes that leave
>>nothing to the imagination. These are some instances that come to mind.
> 
> I'm going to stay calm, really, I am.  
> 
> As a woman, I expect to be given the same rights and respect that any
> man gets.  A person, ANY person, regardless of sex or age, should have
> the secure knowledge that their person is safe.  If they are denied
> that, NOTHING that they can do can make that any worse of a crime. 

Any man who leaves his bicycle parked on campus unlocked an unattended is
INVITING crime. Any man who leaves his windows down and his Bloupunt in the
dash should have his premiums paid up and no deductible. Any man who walks down
back alleys he is unfamiliar with is either incredibly naieve, or sits back and
says, "I know the risk, I'll take my chances."


Sure, any man has the right to do any of these things, and it would be nice to
live in a a society where his rights are respected. However, any man, or woman,
who believes such a world exists, or expects it to exist, is being stupid.

Please, do not go off on a tangent, simply answer the questions and address
these issues.

Sincerely,

Darrell M. Crosgrove