From: arthur@ais.com
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Re: EXECUTION of DECUS Standards
Date: 21 Dec 92 09:54:01 GMT
Distribution: usa,local
Organization: Applied Information Systems, Chapel Hill, NC

In article <1992Dec20.120808.4720@spcvxb.spc.edu>, killeen@spcvxb.spc.edu (Jeff Killeen) writes:
> In article <18DEC199222520174@spades.aces.com>, gavron@spades.aces.com (Ehud Gavron 602-570-2000 x. 2546) writes:
>> 	OH MY GOD!!!  Two Hundred and Fifty lines of HORSE MANURE
>> 	courtesy of number one DECUS Management Council Bigmouth
>> 	Jeff Kileen.  
>> 
>> 	Please, Jeff, learn the word BREVITY.
>> 
>> 	I won't debate you word for word because you drone incessantly.
>> 	You're not only out of touch, you've forgotten what DECUS is
>> 	for, whom the MC really ought to represent, and who the audience
>> 	you should appeal to.
> 
> Another nice mature, well thought out, professional response.  Ehud I have
> heard about your non-professional contributions to other newsgroups and how
> your immature behavior managed to offend a large part of the VAX Magic
> audience including just about every female present.  Frankly, I have been
> pleasantly surprised by your absence on both DECUServe and comp.org.decus.
> Your reputation for non-professional behavior and communications proceeded
> your arrival in this group and it is interesting to see it was well deserved.
> Even before your arrival here many folks were telling me they are now
> filtering you out of other newsgroups.  I also will now be joining that group
> of folks who will be ignoring you - so don't be surprised when your future
> postings don't get a response.  Not solely because of the childishness of the
> name calling but because they are devoid of intellectual content.  So far not
> one of your postings have any substantive material to backup the point of view
> you are taking.  Any idiot can stand on a street corner a shout names at
                   ^^^^^^^^^    
> anyone who walks by.  At least Joel supplied rationales to back up is point of
> view.  If I was interested in this name calling form of debate I would go
> visit a 4th grade class during recess in a school yard. 

> > If the maturity level follows Ehud will now throw a tantrum or post your
> mother wears army boots or some other equally mature and insightful
> response... 
> 
> -- Jeff Killeen - DECUS U.S. Chapter NLC Chair |Email:killeen@eisner.decus.org 
> 
> DECUS is for folks who are responsible for delivering computing technology.
> The NLC is the national council for DECUS's Local User Groups - come join us!

Jeff, while I may not be as blunt as Ehud, anyone who has gone back and
reviewed the last few weeks of messages here comes away with the following
sequence:

  1. There is VERY WIDESPEAD frustration with the BOD and MC.  There is
     the strong impression that 'leadership' has acted in self-serving ways
     over the last few years.

  2. Much of the membership feels estranged from the society.  That
     estrangement increased with the loss of newsletters.  Electronic
     newsletters/news would be a welcome alternative, but much of the 
     'leadership' doesn't use email/notes/...  (Hard to fathom in today's
     world.

  3. The response of the few 'leadership' members has generally been long 
     attempts to refute or deny that there are really any problems that
     aren't being properly addressed.  Often these responses have a tone
     of dismissing those with concerns by pointing out that they don't 
     have the full story and maybe don't have the right to complain then 
     and maybe should take a leadership position.

  4. While Standards were the flash-point, the real problems are much more
     pervasive.  The sad truth is that your responses have highlighted that
     the real problem is just how far out of touch you really are -- you 
     don't even see the chasm that has been created over the years.

I have discussed these issues privately now with a number of people.  Several
are afraid that the only way that his will be corrected is for DECUS as we 
know it to be almost killed.  As one who still has his copy of DECUScope
Vol. 1, No. 1, I am terribly saddened that the situation is coming to this.
Wake up and do some serious soul searching.

Arthur Coston
Applied Information Systems  
Xref: sparky comp.org.decus:1096 comp.os.vms:20243 comp.sys.dec:6673