HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spencer@der.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Subject: To whom DOES Walter listen?
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Live Organ Transplants
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 09:06:22 GMT

Starting a new thread because the old one had split off into too many
other discussions and was getting to be of unmanageable siz, IMO.
(Someone please tell me in if this belonged in a.p.h instead.)

In article <1i09acINNiai@hp-col.col.hp.com>, smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>> Now what reaction do you expect to get from us, Walter, to
>> what amounts to massive rudeness on your part?
>
>Like I said, there is a *large* gap...and obviously I have 
>no clue on how to try and cross it. 
>
>[...]
>
>Even better...I just HATE to see negative stereotypes so boldly 
>fulfilled.  If I'm insulting anyone, it is out of ignorance.  
>But for people here, arrogance, bad manners, and filthy language 
>almost seem a badge of honor.  And *you* have the GALL to accuse 
>me?  
>
>> As Bob Donahue
>> quite calmly remarked, it's put-up or shut-up time, buddy.
>
>What exactly do you want me to "put up"?  Nothing, from what I can 
>see.  You mean either agree with you or shut up.  The longer 
>I read this group, the more I understand the wall between gays 
>and straights that you rail against so much.  Somebody doesn't 
>take what you say at face value, without question, and you resort 
>to cursing them and filthy language; and you wonder why people end

Uh, wait a second (screeeeech).  You have, time and time again,
willingly acknowledged your ignorance of things motss (for the record, I
am not significantly more knowledgeable myself, being that I haven't
been out that long and am out to only some close friends at this point).
Yet you accuse soc.motssers of being sniffy because you refuse to take
what they say at face value.

Whose words WILL you take at face value?  If you take your car to a
mechanic and s/he says you need X done, or if you go to your doctor and
they tell you you have Y and need some procedure performed, do you
accept what they say, or do you act like you've been acting here?  If
you happen to be a car buff or read medical texts in your spare time,
then substitute something else, I'm sure there's an appropriate analogy
for ANY person because NO ONE is that good at everything essential in
life.

-----
sss/PU'94 Dept of CS (spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu)/JvNCnet (spencer@jvnc.net)
"Let me explain.  No, there is too much.  Let me sum up."
From: martin@inf.rl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Hong Kong / Bangkok (Martin Prime)
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:25:44 GMT


In response to all the members on this list who generously invited me
to break bread with them  at their Christmas dining table (or be aparty
to other festive frolics) my reply in simple - no  ;^}

This traveller with ripped sleeve will be departing for Hong Kong on
the 24th Dec and returning via Bangkok on the 17th Jan. Christmas
morning will arrive in flight (what style!) so I will just have to
make use of the best that the cabin crew have to offer.

Anyway the point of this ramble is - will any other motsser be in
Hong Kong during this period? Or failing this does anyone have
any recommendations for Hong Kong or Bangkok?

Long may your yule log spark gaily up your hearth!

Your Martin

--
           Weekends, like life, are short
              Kind Hearts and Coronets

Martin Prime,				JANET:	martin@inf.rl.ac.uk
Rutherford Appleton Laboratory,		UUCP:	..!mcsun!uknet!rlinf!martin
Chilton, Didcot, Oxon, England OX11 0QX.TEL: +44 235 446555
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Miracle cure for homophobic states
Organization: Free Faerie Front
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 06:21:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.034303.11332@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>>d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman) writes:
>>> We now enter another dream scenario sponsored by David Speakman...
>
>>> On Jan 21, President Clinton signs an omnibus executive order outlawing
>>> discrimination against the lesbigay community in all federal employment and
>>> withholds federal funding from all states, municipalities and other local
>>> governments with ant-gay rights laws.
>
>>You know, that may not be a bad idea...there might be legality 
>>problems with the funding thing, but does the Fed have an 
>>EE statement that covers sexual orientation?  They should. 
>
>	There's plenty of precident for the funding thing: Reagan
>threatened to withhold all Fed highway funds from any state that
>had a drinking age < 21... to give one example.

I think he had Congress's backing, i.e. the appropriations bill
said that highway funds would only go to states with a drinking
age of 21.

If Congress did a similar thing with Colorado, there'd be no
problem. But if Congress passes an appropriations bill that sends
money to Colorado, I don't think the President has the legal
authority to interfere. (He can stall the money extralegally, but
that's always a risky thing for a politician to do...)

And I *don't* think Congress would do it. The First Congressional
Commandment is "Thou Shalt Keep Thy Ass Covered", and not many
Congressfilk have the guts to pass a gay-positive law as sweeping
as the suggested funding one would be.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
From: pieter@cs.caltech.edu (Pieter Hazewindus)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: LOOKIN' FOR NYC QUEERS...
Date: 23 Dec 1992 17:40:05 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: vlsi.cs.caltech.edu

dk24+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Jason Kyle) writes:
>just heard an incredibly funny piece on NPR this morning called
>Santaland Diaries and it was written and read by a guy named David
>Sadaris.  

This piece made me laugh so hard I almost drove off the 92 and into the
San Andreas Fault this morning.  An elf who belts out a Christmas carol
for Santa in Billy Holiday style has got to be gay.

There were also some poignant observations on how people are creating
an idealized world, projecting happiness, while they (and their kids)
are so very miserable.  Does anyone know if it is possible to get a
tape of this NPR piece?

("Which line is the one for the women's restroom?"  "I think it's the
one with all the women in it."  "I am going to have you fired!")

Pieter Hazewindus				pieter@cs.caltech.edu
BB&K, San Mateo, CA

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: Re: INT'L MARCH ON UN TO AFFIRM HUMAN RIGHTS OF LESBIAN & GAY PEOPLE!
Organization: Real/Time Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 19:10:48 GMT
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Why respond to Alan Weiss here?
Date: 22 Dec 92 01:15:12 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


If I have my facts right, all of today's posts in the
"Liberty" thread involve Alan Weiss.  I gather he is a
denizen primarily of soc.bi, and I believe I saw him say
something to the effect that he cross-posted because someone
else had cross-posted.  How 'bout taking soc.motss out of
the Newsgroups: line when engaging this person?

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Flits in the Rye
Date: 31 Dec 92 21:13:04 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:

>mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) wrote: 
>->It kills me, it really does, how goddam smart everyone here is.
>->...  It kills me.  It really does.  ... It kills me. ...
>->It kills me. .... it kills me.  ... it still kills me...
>->... since Dorothy Parker kills me.  She really does. ...

>so just die already, ok?

Has monsewer actually *read* _Catcher in the Rye_?

*X*
From: allemang@lia.di.epfl.ch (Dean Allemang)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Melmon Method (was Dworkin)
Date: 24 Dec 92 10:47:00 GMT
	<1haaafINNml2@fido.asd.sgi.com> <1992Dec23.195344.12676@netcom.com>
Organization: DI-LIA -- Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne
In-reply-to: solovay@netcom.com's message of 23 Dec 92 19:53:44 GMT


In article <1992Dec23.195344.12676@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
   In article <1haaafINNml2@fido.asd.sgi.com> pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs) writes:
   >In article <mattm-221292152459@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
   >>  A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.



Am I the only one who thinks he remembers Bertrand Russell having said
that `a man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle' back in
the days when Bertrand Russell was an atheist?  Or maybe I dreamed it
. . .
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: EE statements (was: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado)
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 23:41:42 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1ht8mdINN79g@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

   I agree that you should be able to seek relief in the court system.  But 
   I find so much of the rest to be hysteria.  How many examples can you 
   refer to where companies have violated their own EE policies?  

It happens all the time, Walter.  Individual managers violate the
policies.  Just like individuals violate a company's sexual
harrassment guidelines ALL THE TIME.

I'm curious -- do you know any HR people?  If so, I really recommend
that you have a conversation with one about all the things they have
to deal with -- the constant violations of company policy (if the
company is at all large).
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:49:38 EST
From: Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: zw{i,a}cky matters
 <1htjc0INN6hm@plts.uucp> <C03y14.1B9@demon.co.uk>
 <1992Dec31.175416.17006@Csli.Stanford.EDU>


A therblig is a 'Gilbreth' spelt backwards, Gilbreth as in 'John Kenneth'.
It is a unit of task; one therblig is a motion taken in the process of
accomplishing a task.  (for instance, picking up a nail is a therblig,
if you're nailing shingles on.)

Graydon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: nigel@stonewall.demon.co.uk (Nigel Whitfield)
Subject: Re: The Crying Game SONG ? (NOT A SPOILER)
Organization: Jenny Agutter Fan Club
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 21:58:37 +0000

In article <1993Jan3.180654.16585@adobe.com> shore@adobe.com (Andrew Shore) writes:
>
>Now for my question --
>Who has recorded the song from which the movie gets its title?

Although I don't think he actually sings it during the film, Boy George
has recently released a single of the Crying Game (well, a couple of
months ago, I think - round about the time the film came out in the
UK)

Nigel.
-- 
[Nigel Whitfield                               nigel@stonewall.demon.co.uk]
[For details on the uk-motss mailing list mail uk-motss-request@pyra.co.uk]
[*****  All demon.co.uk sites are independently run internet hosts   *****]

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams)
Subject: Brooklyn Bishop Lays an Egg
Originator: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:55:01 GMT

I hope one of our NYC correspondents will have more
information about this.  The Bay Area Reporter ran an item
about a local TV show in New York that had a debate on the
pros and cons of the "Children of the Rainbow" curriculum
that's being implemented in public schools there -- it
teaches kids that gays and lesbians are people to be
respected just like any others, and is, therefore, highly
contoversial.  One of the participants, (Roman Catholic)
Bishop Edward Daily of Brooklyn, made a remark something
like how-can-you-teach-that-they're-normal-just-look-at-them.

Is it too much to hope that Daily and his egregious boss,
Cardinal O'Connor, would ever deign to speak with and learn
from their Episcopalian brother across the Hudson, John
Spong, Bishop of Newark, who could startle them with some
new-fangled, 20th Century notions about human sexuality...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lev0@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ron Levy (Armchair))
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Colorado #2, Constitutionality
Date: 30 Dec 92 19:44:21 GMT
Reply-To: lev0@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Worshippers of Yig


>Get real yourself and look at this from a practical standpoint, instead 
>of an emotional, reactionary one.  If #2 takes away rights 
>guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution, it will be ruled unconstitutional 
>and be overturned. 

Wrongo.  Hundreds if not thousands of state and local laws have taken
away rights clearly guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution, and they still
stand.  Challenging something in the Supreme Court takes lots of time
to work up through the appellate process, lots of money for lots of
lawyers, and has absolutely no definable chance of success.

One of the many reasons for this is that the Supreme Court doesn't
have to take any court case it doesn't want to.  Therefore, if the
Supreme Court doesn't feel up to actually making a constitutional
ruling, they don't have to, and nothing at all happens.



-- 
Welcome to the Hotel CaineFiona
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: My 5-year HS Reunion... the results!
Date: 29 Dec 1992 13:55:13 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Tracey McCartney writes
>In article <1hon97INNc79@sdl.Warren.MENTORG.COM>
>tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
>My 10-year class reunion is in a couple of years. I graduated with 125
>others from a rural high school. 

Similar to mine---only I went to a suburban high school, not a rural
one.  Still, everyone knew everyone else's business.

>But lately I've been thinking that I'd never be able to look at myself 
>in the mirror if I cowered in the closet during this reunion. 

I think it's very educational to be out at your reunion, but you 
can choose how out you want to be.

I lost touch with most of my high school classmates as I went 600 miles 
to go to college and rarely went home.  I'd hear tidbits from my mother 
over the year about my high school classmates who attended the same church
as we did.  One classmate, a very up-front type of woman who played trumpet and  
had the most phenomenal long black hair all through school shaved her head and  
took up carpentry.  While she didn't come out at the reunion, I'd be VERY  
surprised to hear that she was straight.

Anyway, we had a great time at the reunion.  But, a woman that she'd been a  
close friend of during school grew progressively more uncomfortable during the
evening and disappeared early.  I don't know if she felt threatened by the  
other woman or not.

In short, while visibility is important, do what you feel most comfortable  
doing.

*  In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak *
*  because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I *
*  didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade *
* unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist... *
*Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.*
*  Rev. Martin Niemoeller     [Why to March on Washington in April]  *
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Devil DJ's
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 20:47:16 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Ken Dykes writes:
>>Of course, I imagine that being exposed to something like Little
>>Caesar in a dance club would cause some people to simply expire
>
>i wouldnt mind exposing myself to Little Ceasar.. oh, ummm...  

*THIS* I want to see, if only for Ron Young's reaction.  ;-{)##]

And with your heritage, I would have thought you'd have that
_ae_ dipthong down pat... *Caesar*, dear Byker....  ;-)

 
() Poor Brutus, with himself at war,
() Forgets the shows of love to other men.
()      -- Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar"
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: Cread@Fwva.Saic.Com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "cures" for homosexuality
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:51:19 GMT
	<1992Dec22.193438.18993@netcom.com>
Organization: Science Applications Int'l, Corp. - Computer systems operation

solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>>7.) Physical Therapy, according to one theory, prostate massage kills 
>>    "homosexual cells" and replaces them with "healthy heterosexual cells".
>
>Does this work if you massage the prostate from behind?
>-- 
 
Does it matter what is used to do the massaging?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Austin, TX joins Colo. Boycott
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:46:15 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Dec29.190004.20792@lclark.edu> snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
>In article <85913@ut-emx.uucp> esm@june.che.utexas.edu (Edward Scott Meadows) writes:
>>It's true that Texas has a sodomy law, but that doesn't prevent the
>>passage of local gay and lesbian civil rights laws.
>So there is a equal rights law protecting Gays in Austin?  That is
>funny, because in Oregon City laws cannot override State and or Federal
>Laws.....

It doesn't.  It is (nominally) illegal to have homosexual sex.  It is also
illegal to discriminate against one because of homosexual orientation.
What is so difficult to figure out?
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A Better Year Ahead
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:22:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.125552.21333@vpnet.chi.il.us>, lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gerry Swetsky) writes:
> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
> >
> >Of couse, I understand this completely, I'd just like to get some feedback
> >from the usenet news.gods or whoever, about what kind of steps we can take
> >to at least have a technical high ground to stand on when invasions
> >or harrasment happens.
 
>     You don't think that soc.motss is the *only* newsgroup that suffers
>     from this sort of problem, do you, Owen?  I'm sorry, but it goes
>     with the territory.  We just have to deal with it, that's all.

No I don't imagine that we are the only newsgroup to have problems
with molesters, and I understand that we must deal with it.
I was asking for some input regarding the map of the territory, and the 
rules of engagement.

LUX ./. owen


--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Subject: Re: Deaf and Gay Conference Scheduled
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:15:08 GMT

What follows is a previously posted announcement of an event to be held at my
workplace that I encourage all interested people to attend if they'll be in
Rochester, New York.  E-mail me if you'd like more information; this program
will be wonderful.  There'll be a dance Friday night, January 16th, to boot.

Katie

>                      Learn about being Deaf and Gay
>
>"Deaf,Gay and Lesbian Conference," a weeklong series of activities
>sponsored by the Deaprtment of Human Development, Department of
>Residence Life and the Liberal Arts Support Department at the
>National Technical Institute for the Deaf, one of eight colleges at
>the Rochester Institute of Technology will be held January 11-16,
>1993.
>
>All presentations will be accessible to deaf and hearing audiences.
>
>Philip Rubin, director of the Deaf Gay and Lesbian Center in San
>Francisco and Mr. Deaf International Leather, will be a featured
>presentor.
>
>Rubin will present, "Deaf and Gay Cultures...Supported or
>Oppressed?" from 7 to 9 p.m. Monday January 11 in RIT's College of
>Liberal Arts Building 6 Room A205, and again from 7 to 9 p.m. on
>Tuesday January 12, in the Robert F. Panara Theatre in the Lyndon
>Baines Johnson building at NTID.
>
>"Gay and Lesbian Cultures: Personal Stories" a panel discussion,
>will be held from 4 to 5:30 p.m. on Tuesday January 12 in the
>Panara Theatre at NTID.
>
>"Why...Gay?" an NTID Deaf Culture Speaker Series presentation, will
>be held from 4 to 5 p.m. on Wednesday January 13 in the Mark
>Ellingson Hall dormitory first-floor lounge.
>
>"Coming Out: Gay and Lesbian Empowerment" will be presented from 9
>to 11 a.m.  on Thursday January 14 in the Skalny Room of RIT's
>Kilian J. and Caroline F.  Schmitt Interfaith Center.  Later the
>same day in the same room, Philip Rubin will present, "Deaf Gay and
>Lesbians: Discrimination, Empowerment, and Political Action" from
>noon to 2:00 p.m..
>
>Rubin will also present "Sensitivity in the Workplace" from 2 to 4
>p.m. on Friday January 15 in the Lyndon Baines Johnson Building
>room 3635.
>
>For more information, contact Sherlea Dony, (716) 475-6200
>voice/text telephone, electronic mail SADDHD@RITVAX.RIT.ISC.EDU, or
>by mail at Department of Human Development, National Technical
>Institute for the Deaf, Rochester Institute of Technology, One Lomb
>Memorial Drive, P.O. Box 9887, Rochester, New York 14623.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: taurus@agora.rain.com (Scott Burch)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Homos in the bible
Summary: Homos in the bible?
Keywords: bible
Date: 26 Dec 92 02:13:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.BzuGu9.IF5
Organization: Open Communications Forum

I was reading a book recently that stated that there was some biblical
scripture that mentioned the posibliity of David being gay.  Does anyone
know of any gay bible characters, or support for the theory that David was
gay.  I would be interested in any leads that I can get.  

			Scott  aka Taurus@agora.rain.com

-- 
****** Practice random senseless acts of kindness ******
Newsgroups: soc.motss