HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Face-thrust force
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:15:03 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Dec10.115241.9427@ac.dal.ca> sinister@ac.dal.ca writes:
>In article <92Dec09.233134.20850@acs.ucalgary.ca>, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:

>> 3) We need a *standard* gauge. Not an endless cycle of
>>    poofter/rhino/whine/poofter/rhino/whine.

>	I agree....  I keep getting told "It was clean, straight in, but
>it was light...".  

If you're talking about face-thrusts, I have a solution. Our armor standard
for the kingdom (the West) is that we are wearing open-faced helms with a
nasal. If we are thrust in the face, we're dead (no armor). This doesn't
magically mean that any time a sword gets near a face, the person is dead,
but it means that you don't need to worry about having to hit too hard or
getting hit too hard when face-thrusting. 

Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: More on force
From: jvincent@eagle.wesleyan.edu (The Ulair)
Date: 17 Dec 92 14:30:50 EST
Organization: Wesleyan University

On the topic of "fragiles", methinks people would be well advised to remember
that this system works under an HONOR SYSTEM. You are not taking the shot you
are throwing. If the other chooses to take it, accept it. Even the thrower of
the blow is not as good a judge of it as the recipient at times. If you have
some question as to whether or not it was good, raise it politely, but abide by
the decision of the recipient.

     No one should be forced to take only the blows your foe wishes you to
take.  You aren't there solely to be a practice dummy.

    Part of the reason I queried about the force question was the fairly
excessive amount of force apparently needed in this vicinity before anyone
accepts a thrust. If this keeps up now that (for some unfathomable reason)
there is face-thrusting here, I guarantee a great deal of neck injuries. 
  
    Another interesting topic is the odd notion that the tip of a blade can't
hurt you. The tip of any fair stroke is, by simple lever action, moving at a
greater angular speed than any other part of the weapon, and striking with
more than likely greater force. Thusly, it is just as capable (if not more so)
of cleaving what it strikes. 

                - Eirik

     
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: keradwc@rahul.net (Kevin Davis Connery)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Organization: Ringworld Engineering 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:36:18 GMT

In article <92Dec15.211557.27956@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes (responding to, I believe, Kwellend-Njal, or Alan Terlep - the
quoting got complicated!)

>The point was not about the chief, enarched or otherwise, but
>rather that, to a mundane college, the difference of field
>or charge colour was enough, but to the SCA, such changes
>(more than sufficient in my opionion) were not enough,
>and I had to add a chief.

How strange. I seem to recall Brooke-Little commenting that
the CoA in England didn't consider color for _any_ difference,,
and that the outline alone was used when they designed new arms
for someone. 

But they have a system in place whereby 'professionals' design arms
on request [and authorization, and payment...], rather than do 
after-the-fact checking.


>Finally, you asked me why I did not send a letter to the BoD
>ombudsman...There are a number of reasons not to
>
>1) the BoD (brace yourselves) is an impediment to the SCA
>   and should be radically trimmed and concievably 
>   eliminated entirely.
>
>2) I would rather speak to the populace than a bureaucrat,
>   which is what i do when I post here.
>
>3) The ombudsman, if not already aware of these problems 
>   from any number os sources (for example, Arval,
>   Kwelland Njal, and any number of others who's opinions
>   actually carry weight and prestige), certainly won't
>   be swayed by *my* letter.
>
>4) I intend to write such a letter, right after I fix
>   my armour, finish pellwork, cook dinner, clean my house,
>   do my christmas shopping, and have anervous breakdown.
>
Ah. I read #2 as being a confirmation that you would rather complain to
people who cannot address your problem than take actions which those
same people feel might solve/adress them. I suppose it's a choice.

And #3 is the "why bother voting, it doesn't make any difference"
comment common to those who feel -- and maintain by their own actions --
their voices and opinions aren't heard. It, too, is a choice.

#1, of course, can be MADE to be valid, by ignoring, working around, 
bypassing, and otherwise obstructing a particular organizational 
artifact; that forced failure, however, does nothing to indicate the 
validity of the original claim. But avoiding any contact -- or attempting
to do so -- is also a choice.

I certainly wouldn't bet on the success of any of those particular
choices, however.


-- 
Keradwc an Cai                     A Caidan Mistie (or was that a Misty Caidan?)
Kevin Davis Connery                kconnery@isi.com or  keradwc@rahul.net
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:44:20 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Martin asked:

> In looking at all the photos which have made their way down to us, I
> notice the complete absence of black faces.  Why is that?  

I don't think it is a matter of prejudice.  I would rate the SCA
considerably less prone to unfair prejudice than most parts of society.  On
the other hand, I think Erik may be glossing over the situation.  I'd say
he is correct that some of the under-representation of minorities in the
SCA is a result of their absence from social activities at which the SCA
does much of its recruiting, but I don't think it is the whole story: Even
compared to the average American university, the SCA's population of people
of color is markedly lower.  The answer may be simply one of interest: The
SCA focuses on European history, and part of the attraction for many people
is the feeling that this is "our history".  For someone whose family does
not derive from European stock, that source of interest is absent.  Even
with that explanation, I have always been uncomfortable with the nearly
all-white population of the SCA.  I'd be interested to hear any other
thoughts. 

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.heraldry.sca
From: kogutt@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SCAVEN-CLAUS)
Subject: A ? about the source of Axemoore's name...
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:29:00 GMT

Greetings,

I am attempting to find information on where the Barony of Axemoore (New Orleans
) got it's name.  I have yet to find any mention of Axemoore in reference books.
If anyone can provide assistance, I would be most greatful.  

Please respond by E-Mail.


-Nikodemus
-- 
Alt.comics.lnh -the most fun you can have with  |  kogutt@ucsu.colorado.edu
    your .net on!                               |      (Internet/Usenet)
You don't have to be crazy to be in the LNH,    |  "Oh Bite Me!  It's fun"
    But it helps!!!                             |         -Crow T. Robot (MST3K)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lrfox@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (linda ream fox)
Subject: Puffs and Seams
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:23:14 GMT

To those who have emailed me about ordering issues of Seams Like Old Times
and Puffs and Slashes:

I have finally managed to complete the undergraduate degree I started ca.
A.S. II.  And it occurs to me that Indiana University will eventually notice
that I am no longer a student, at which time they will yank my VAX account.

So, if you want to get in touch with me either:
   1) Email me before 12/31/92.
   2) Email my husband at Foxd@silver.ucs.silver.edu

Thanks.

LRFOX

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: troll@sug.org (A. Newman)
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Organization: Sun User Group
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:47:16 GMT

Fondest greetings to you all;

With you, I have heard the words of Betram of Bearington who sayeth:

>
>Also, on yet another Bertram-esque semi-tangent...
>
>  How often do folks chose personas that are _connected_ to their
>  actual racial/ethnic background, versus the stereotypical 
>  "blond samurai" ?
>

Speaking for myself, milord, Aleksandr Yevsha is a 15th century
merchant from western Russia, in the southern Ukraine.  Alex Newman is
an executive from New York City.  However, Alex's grandfather came
from Yampol (outside Kiev) in the Ukraine.

Alex/Aleks

I remain,
	your obedient servant...and angel,
	Aleksandr Yevsha, House Sinister
	Guildmaster, Worshipful Company of Carolingian Storytellers

	troll@bridge.sug.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Join the Storytellers Mailing list!  storytellers-request@world.std.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Land holding (was Kingdom Awards)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:40:39 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center


> Arval Benicoeur writes:
> > Indeed, we could automatically grant every participant the
> > land he happens to live on (as long as he continues to live there),
> 
> And if you happen to live in an apartment building, it just means that your
> 'lands' are 36' off the ground! ;-) ;-)
>                                                        - Dagonell

Dagonell, get real; you're building castles in the air!

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: HELP! name searching.
Date: 20 Dec 1992 23:53:37 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.berkeley.edu

Hello from Bjalfi!

Quoth his Grace Cariadoc:
 
>I believe the identification of Snorri as the author of Egilsaga is a
>conjecture; there is no direct evidence, so far as I know, of who
>wrote it.
 
It's a conjecture, but I am given to believe it is a very well-founded
and sensible conjecture.  Something on the order of, the style of
writing is reasonably close to Snorri's style and not reasonably close
to anyone else's that we know of.

>Lothar refers to "Kveldulf" as a nickname. I do not think the saga
>ever gives another name. My guess would be that his given name was
>"Ulf," and he was called "Kveldulf" either because he was believed to
>be a shape changer or for some unrelated reason; that would fit the
>pattern of his son's name--"Skallagrim" means, I think, "Grim the
>bald."

It's never stated whether "Kveldulf" is a given name, nickname or
part of each.  "Skallagrim" does mean "Grim the bald"... In actual 
fact, it's not really accurate to talk about nicknames as such in
Norse, because an "earned" name can come to have as much or more
legitimacy than a given name.  There's Skallagrim, there's Ketil
Trout, there's Svein Forkbeard, Harald Bluetooth... I could go on.
And (in reply to an earlier post) there were certainly some names
which were never used to the bearer's face.  The most prominent
example is Burnt Njal, who is named for the method of his death...


---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:08:52 GMT

Also remember that it was until the early 20th century that Aluminum was
as expensive as a precious metal [until the modern refining process was
invented c.1900].  

So if you wear Aluminum armor, remember that its price (even if it was
refined in the Middle Ages) would be equal to a small kingdom! :)


-- 
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+-----------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         | The above personal opinions     |Winter vacation: |
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | can be yours too for only $50!  | 20 Dec - 4 Jan  |
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+-----------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: Re: Forge story
Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 21:36:33 GMT

Greetings from Balderik,

I agree with the others..great story! (but then, I can't ever
remember Tom telling any story that wasn't inspirational).

But Tom, do tell where you got the soft iron to make the body
of the axe head.  Was it scavenged scrap, or do you know of a source
for wrought iron?  Or did you smelt it yourself?
I'm still learning the basics, but the more
experienced smiths in our area claim good quality iron for forge
work is unobtainable.  They either reclaim old scrap wrought iron
or settle for mild steel.

Wish I could find the time/facilities to get so far into my crafts.

Cheers,
Balderik
From: Floyd.Bullock@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Floyd Bullock)
Sender: postmaster@therose.pdx.com
From: gray@ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle FitzWilliam)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Drifting Away...
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:17:01 GMT
Reply-To: gray@ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle FitzWilliam)
Organization: Bergental, East Kingdom

In article <a7510dc5@nudity.UUCP> vnend@nudity.UUCP (David W. James) writes:
>tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:
>> Probably. Where you have horses and cattle you NEED a shovel to shift
>> the manure from the paddock to the cart to the fields.
>
>Ah, you don't use shovels for that either.  That's what pitchforks
>are for.

I love this sort of comment...

Where I come from, those types of tools are not called "pitchforks", they're
called "manure forks".  Pitchforks are for pitching hay, not manure, and the
two tools have a distinctly different design.  Plus, I've seen pitchforks made
of wood.  I haven't seen any manure forks made of wood (not that there
couldn't be any -- just haven't seen them).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lyle H. Gray                       Internet (personal): gray@cs.umass.edu
Quodata Corporation            Phone: (203) 728-6777, FAX: (203) 247-0249
--(My opinions are my own, and do not represent my employer's opinions)--
From: gray@ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle FitzWilliam)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: On the nature of armor....
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:30:31 GMT
Reply-To: gray@ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle FitzWilliam)
Organization: Bergental, East Kingdom

In article <3009@tymix.Tymnet.COM> jschmidt@oolong.Tymnet.COM (John Schmidt)
writes:

>A note:  I, too, consider someone who takes too light to be a problem--if they
>try to extend their calibration outward.  I will on occasion accept a well
>thrown blow that lands lightly, but I see that the mechanics are such that I 
>could have been hit hard; but I fought someone at Pennsic, who wore no armor,
>and had to ask me after the fifth offside helm flick why I didn't die.  I
>had not felt the blows to have any strength or technique; when one of my shots
>landed, it dropped the poor gentleman, who was not prepared for it.  He was
>playing a different game, had armored for it, and was upset when I was
>(by his calibration) a rhino.  Still, I have never met someone who could not
>throw an excellent killing blow if their technique is good, and I have 
>seen several different styles of technique.

I usually deal with light blows this way: If the blow landed cleanly (edge-on
and unobstructed), but light, I will consider that the _first_ time this has
happened has scored the armor, the _second_ time it has broken the armor
(rendering the armor useless for protection at that location), and the _third_
time to have been good (no armor remaining to protect).  Also, if someone can
hit me in the same place three times cleanly and unobstructed, even if they're
only hitting me lightly, than I'm doing something wrong, and need to take a
break and think about my defense.

Oh, there is one other assumption here: That I can feel the blow at all.  If I
can't feel it at all, I can't count it (for those who want to know, I wear
wax-hardened leather scales on the inside of a leather vest, both 8 oz.
leather -- I should be able to feel the blow under most circumstances).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lyle H. Gray                       Internet (personal): gray@cs.umass.edu
Quodata Corporation            Phone: (203) 728-6777, FAX: (203) 247-0249
--(My opinions are my own, and do not represent my employer's opinions)--
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Too Light Blows (was Re: Face-thrust force/Picts)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 16:09:57 GMT
Distribution: world, na, usa, local
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <62863@mimsy.umd.edu> kuijt@umiacs.umd.edu (David Kuijt) writes:
>Greetings to the rialto from Dafydd ap Gwystl,
>
>Carolus Malvoix writes concerning his...
>
>>... current peeve, which is people who are taking my
>>*garbage* shots as good. They are not good. I know, I threw
>>the shot, and it would not cleave denim, let alone chain,
>>but they want to take it because it was "clean"...This may be
>>even worse than the Rhinos who wouldn't take your blow if you
>>were wielding live steel.
>>
>>Carolus Malvoix
>>Montengarde, An Tir
>
>This is the first time I've seen someone who seemed angry
>about others taking light.  Why do you think it might be
>worse than Rhinos?  I'm inclined to believe this is hyperbole,
>as I can't imagine how Fragiles (to coin a term) could cause
>any of the negative affects that Rhinos do in our combat game.

Because I'm a purist practicing a martial art, not a
casual "gamer" playing lets-pretend.

A "fragile" is depriving me of the chance to practice
my art. 

Sorry to come over all pompous on this one, but it's
*honest* pomposity.

Carolus Malvoix
Montengarde An Tir
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: real medieval village
Date: 11 Dec 1992 23:27:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, A. Murdoch Stewart wrote, asking about medieval
living history villages or farmsteads.

In Berlin, Germany, there is a recontructed medieval village from around
the time just before the founding of the original towns of Berlin and
Koelln (yes, there was one of those in Brandenburg, too - just like
there's 2 Frankfurts).  It's a full-up living history museum, with
limited public access.  I'll try to see if I've got some info at home
that's not buried in a box.

Incidentally, it's a _Slavic_ village, not German, based on the
population of the area at the time portrayed.  This seems to annoy the
heck out of the local rightist, fanatic followers of a certain Austrian
wallpaperer, who keep trying to burn the place to the ground.

No ever said they were intelligent.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
Former resident of the Shire of Perilous Journey, Drachenwald
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Scope of the SCA (was Re: Through a looking glass, darkly)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 12:34:27

    An Anonymous Node wrote:
 "T> Reply-To: tabron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu

 "T> But Arval, it is not "obvious" to me that "western civilation"
 "T> includes those areas. In fact, just look at the terms "the Near and
 "T> Middle East" and wonder how "obvious" it is that this is part of "the
 "T> west".

 Considering the initial impulse that generated the Society (Arthurian
 romance fetishism), I suspect that a good case could be made that "western
 civilization" includes England below the Trent, France above the Loire,
 and whatever west of the Rhine, and that's about it.

 "T> "The west" today means western Europe and the United States. Just
 "T> because the US is enforcing its values and culture (whatever that is)
 "T> all over the "Near and Middle East" as well as everywhere else, that
 "T> does NOT mean that it's all the same culture; and in the Middle Ages I
 "T> find it laughable that one could consider these areas "obviously" part
 "T> of so-called "western civilization".

 I agree, the Middle Ages *would* find your concept of "western
 civilization" laughable.

 "T> Someone else wrote: "White people tend to know white people." That's
 "T> certainly the most racist statement I've heard recently.

 You must live in Bill Clinton's back pocket, then. Most of the people I
 know are white. So what? Our knight marshal is black, and I strongly
 suspect that most of the people *he* knows are white, too. So what?

 "T> You know, I need to stay the hell off the rialto. two days of reading this
 "T> board and I'm convinced I need to get the hell out of the SCA.

 Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out....

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Polish Persona and Heraldry
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 17:01:17 GMT

Greetings,

I have a fellow in my shire who wants to have a Polish persona (from the
15th C. if memory serves). I am completely ignorant about Polish naming
practices and almost completely ignorant about Polish heraldry, 
so I'm asking for help here.  Apperantly, my client talked to a herald
from another kingdom who is knowledgable about things Polish who goes by
the nickname of Greyraven.       
	If Anyone who knows of Greyraven and/or Polish heraldry or
ononymastics please email me or my client.

	me:  tbarnes@silver.indiana.edu

	client: mewill@indiana.edu

	Don't expect immediate acknowledgement of email at either
address, both of us will be away for the holidays, more-or-less.

Thanks in advance,

	Lothar, Mynydd Seren Pursuivant \|/
                                         0
 
fellow
from anotherso I am
asking for help on the Rialto, and on the Herald's Mailing List
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA