HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 925wardell@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why OS/2 **WILL** fail
Date: 29 Sep 92 10:51:47 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

> Oh god I hope not!!!!!!! A massive os like os/2 can NOT succede if
> it is only sold to a computerphile (audiophile.. computerphile..
> whatever) elite! It costs A LOT of money to create and maintain such
> a system. It will only succede if it gets sold to joe user. Your
> very analogy is the very logic that I originally pointed out as
> being the reason why os/2 will fail.
> 
> 				The jester
> 
> -- 

	Well,  I don't think there is much debate that The WPS is
easier to use than Windows.  Our customers seem to think so and they
are computer illiterate.

	To put bluntly, with Windows, we get calls from people who
simply want to move some program from a disk to their hard drive.
With OS/2, they don't have such problems, they just pick up the folder and move
it onto the desktop or to another folder eentually.  It is MUCH easier
to use than Windows.

						-Brad

===============================
Brad Wardell * Happy OS/2 User *
Systems Development Director
Stardock Systems SDS
Western Michigan University
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:19:30 EDT
From: <EJR106@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: OS/2 and booting from a 5.25 drive

   Hi.  I own two computers.  One has a 3.5" disk drive, and one doesn't.
Both are hardware wise capable of running OS/2.  However, I have installed
OS/2 on the machine with the 3.5" drive only, and I don't know how to go
about getting it onto the machine with only the 1.2M floppy.  Any ideas?
   I would read the manual if I had one; however, I am testing out the
complementary version from IBM and it has no manuals.

   Thanks for any help.
From: exujlg@exu.ericsson.se (Jon L. Gauthier)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Number of Windows apps sold?
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:58:27 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson in North America.
              The opinions expressed are strictly those of the user and
              not necessarily those of Ericsson.

At the risk of facing a wall of flame from pro-Windows people in this 
group, I pose the following question, for my own benefit:

	How many Windows APPLICATIONS has Microsoft sold since the
	release of Win 3.0? Has every sale of Windows generated a
	sale of an MS windows application?  Or do most people use it
	as a DOS program launcher?

E(I)nquiring minds want to know... 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon L. Gauthier                                 Ericsson Network Systems, Inc
EXU/IS/TP Systems Programmer                                  P.O. Box 833875
+1 214 997-0157                                     Richardson, TX 75083-3875

Disclaimer:  "My opinions are my own - my employer would take the 5th on
             everything I say."  Surely it's been said before!...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: TW.FY4@isumvs.iastate.edu (Timothy I Miller)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: I hate to tell you this, but...
Date: 28 Sep 92 01:18:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In article <RSHOLMES.92Sep27190549@rodan.syr.EDU>,
rsholmes@rodan.syr.EDU (Rich Holmes) writes:
>HAY MACINTOSH KICKS BUTTT !!!!!!!1!!!1!!!!!!!!!!
>

Well, this is quite a statement!  I wonder if you are talking about
the OS or the processor, though.  Which processor?  Which OS?  I'll
assume you're talking about the OS, since this is an OS group...
     What makes Mac's 'Kick Buttt' anyway?  Could it be the
efficient use of time-slicing with System 7?  Or possibly the
single-menu system that people are so fond of?  Maybe it's the fact
that Apple likes to show off what Mac's can do (MultiMedia stuff),
while PC's (which can do all of the same stuff) don't...
     I think it's coming clear to me now!  It's the fact that you
can buy a system for twice to three times the money, and get the
same (or less) amount of computing power!  Boy, I should have spent
the extra money on the Mac, then I wouldn't have had to go through
the pain of putting my computer together ;-) !  (I love putting
machines together, BTW).  In fact, I wouldn't have had the choice!
I *might* have even been able to afford a *color* system, with an
*external* monitor!  And then I wouldn't have had to take my
computer apart to upgrade the motherboard.  I would have had to buy
a *whole new system*!!  Wow, the merits are coming through clearly
now...

     Sorry for the sarcasm, but I'm not a big fan of Mac's.  They're
nice machines, but I don't like the closed architecture!
From: xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting tidbit from September 7, 1992 PC Week
Date: 6 Oct 92 08:38:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <1992Oct05.185642.23419@microsoft.com> philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:

[ attribution mercifully elided]
>>You forgot that it's also being testes dy its users, whether MS wants to admit
>>it or not.

>     The above line wins the Typo Of The Week award.  :-)

Grinz  :-)

>     Every piece of software being run anywhere is being "tested"
>by its users.  Now, here's the distinction:  The primary purpose
>(note - _primary_) of a beta is testing.  The primary purpose of
>the SDK is applications development.  Any questions?

Yes.  Who says that the primary purpose of a beta is testing?  Maybe for
some betas, but this is by no means an industry-wide standard.  I know
lots of people that get betas because they need features that are not
available in released versions of programs.  I know of many betas that
have been released to people simply so that people could use new
features (this assumes that these people are willing to put up with the
bugs in a beta system for the sake of those new features).

In any case, the argument is pretty stupid.  I think that the main point
is that people should not be flamed for calling it a beta.  That's what
your average programmer-on-the-street would probably call it, unless
he's been flamed sufficiently on the net.  It is a beta, but it is
called the "pre-beta", because MS wants to emphasize that the primary
purpose is not testing.  All that is fine.  Just no more silly flames,
ok folks?

(Note, this is not directed at Phil, who hasn't flamed anyone about
this, that I've seen.  At least not recently.)

>     How can a person prove that they are a developer?

Quick, you've got 3 minutes to write a working blackjack program in the
language of your choice....
  .......
      ......
         ......ok, your pre-beta will be shipped within 4 working days.
:-)

ObOS/2:  well, I can't think of one...but then, I'm replying to a post
that also had no OS/2 content.  Hmm, time to set the followups-to
/dev/null.  (or NUL: or something.)  :-)
-- 
Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: rommel@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Kai-Uwe Rommel)
Subject: Re: Good news for 2.0 and other Tidbits.
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:45:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.180200.4460@microsoft.com> philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.232210.21615@muddcs.claremont.edu> jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu (John H. Kim) writes:
>>
>>He doesn't need evidence Phil.  A little logic will prove it.
>>
>>There are two sets of people.  Set A comprises those who want a
>>product badly enough to buy it.  Say that of set A, 75% of the
>>purchases are actually used.  Set B comprises those who don't
>>want to buy a product.  Obviously, usage in set A is much greater
>>than usage in set B, so we'll set B usage at 25%.  (These numbers
>>are completely arbitrary, and I use them only to clarify the point)
>
>     The flaw in your logic is the following:  You are taking as
>an axiom the idea that usage in set B will always be less that
>usage in set A.  I think you are probably correct - it would seem
>like common sense to me.  However, there aren't any figures to
>back up that assumption, which makes the rest of the (rather nice, 
>by the way) proof specious at best.

If, from the fact that you write articles in comp.os.os2.advocacy, WE
assume that you were born some time ago, you wouldn't admit it, because
someone else stated that, not you.

Kai Uwe Rommel

/* Kai Uwe Rommel --- rommel@informatik.tu-muenchen.de */

DOS ... is still a real mode only non-reentrant interrupt
handler, and always will be.                -Russell Williams
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting tidbit from September 7, 1992 PC Week
Date: 29 Sep 1992 17:31:22 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Sep28.082303.23571@microsoft.com> petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
>Maybe you can tell this about the OS/2 beta program, but I have yet to
>hear from anyone who's seen a beta for NT.  I know a lot of folk with
>the PDK though, who say it's pretty easy to get ahold of.  All you
>have to do is call the developers hotline.  (just being a pain ;)

You appear to have completely missed the point of the post you were following
up to. He was explaining why, despite MS's public statements to the contrary,
the SDK really IS a beta. There have been more than a few of the $69 CDROMs
shipped, and every one of them is a beta copy, whether or not you and your
company admit it.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    Vote for a REAL change on 3 November: Throw out the check-bouncing,
  tax-and-spend Democrat Congress! (obviously, not an opinion of UTHSCH)
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: PowerPC or (P5 & P6)?
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:36:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: njitgw.1992Oct1.213611.17339
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1879@shaman.wv.tek.com> andrew@frip.wv.tek.com writes:
>
>The "tyranny" of x86 comes, not from the OS, but from the application
>base.  You could whip out a new MSDOS for any architecture in a few
>person-years, but there are literally millions of copies of WordPerfect
>for DOS that won't run on anything else.

Case in point:  The DEC Rainbow.  It was an MS-DOS computer that
wasn't PC-compatible.  It died a very quick and painful death.
Personally, I think it deserved it.
-- 
David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: So much for Msoft's bluster <grin>
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:04:33 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Oct01.094023.26012@microsoft.com> petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
>I believed that OS/2 would be successful back before the breakup.
>Is that close enough?

Oh. You mean that MS's presence in the development process of OS/2 would make
it successful, and its absence would make it unsuccessful? Did your opinion
change during the day of 28 January 1991 (the day MS announced the
abandonment) all at once?
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    Vote for a REAL change on 3 November: Throw out the check-bouncing,
  tax-and-spend Democrat Congress! (obviously, not an opinion of UTHSCH)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly)
Subject: Re: Multitasking (was MS's misconduct!)
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:56:00 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

In article <1992Sep25.173913.14976@digi.lonestar.org> mmitchel@digi.lonestar.org wrote:
> petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
> 
> >I guess you misunderstood me.  I said use one app at a time.  I don't
> >care how many icons you have at the bottom of the screen, you aren't using
> >them.  I don't care how many stopped jobs you have in the background, you
> >aren't using them.  I don't care how many things are blocking on user
> >input, 'cause if they're blocking, then you're not using them.
> >[...]
> >I didn't say having one app on the screen at a time.  Use to me means
> >interacting with the app, not it's mere existence.
> >[...]
> >petesk@microsoft.com
> >My Opinions...
> 
>    Hmm... I use multitasking a lot -- especially when I want to
>    run an application that I don't want to interact with while it's
>    doing the work.  For example:
> 
>    1. I have a little reminder utility that beeps and displays a reminder
>       when I have appointments, meetings etc.
> 
>    2. When I print a document I ship it to a spooler that handles
>       the formatting and printing then beeps me when printing is
>       complete.
> 
>    3. Other computers call my computer to deliver mail and news while
>       I am running whatever application I'm working with at the time
>       -- and I typically don't even notice that mail/news is arriving
>       until another program notifies me.

I do these on a daily basis, on a Win31 machine (non-premptive),
while running Word, or Solitaire, or whatever.  


> 
>    4. Another program updates a local database whenever information
>       stored on other machines is changed.
Databases I use are centralized on a server, so I don't have to do this.

> 
>    5. Last night I shuffled several directories around -- while the
>       copying was going on I kept working on a report.
Never had to do this.

> 
>    6. When I backup my hard drive I don't have to wait for everything
>       to finish so I can use my computer again.
We have a shared tape backup, so I backup over the network.  Usually
have to go load the tape and the like, and it's pretty quick, so I don't
really have time to start work on something else.

> 
>     I guess the primary consideration of how useful preemptive
>     multitasking is depends a lot on your needs and imagination.
And in many cases, preemptive mt is just one of many ways that that
use can be covered...

petesk@microsoft.com
My Opinions...
From: sjb5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (STACY JOHN BEHRENS)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Review: OS/2 2.1 BETA.
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:56:15 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Sep25.213134.12889@njitgw.njit.edu>, dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (Dav
id Charlap) writes:
>In article <1992Sep24.181238.5447@gw.wmich.edu> 925wardell@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>>      I did turn it off, but the 32bit GRE sluggishness extends
>>beyond mistiming the animation.  When you close a window it takes
>>a bit longer for it to disappear.  As if it were thinking "Well, I
>>guess I will disappear now."
>
>This may not be the only cause of slowness, but I've heard that beta
>releases usually have lots of debugging code in them (so IBM can
>remote-debug you, should you need it).  This code is likely to sap
>lots of speed from the system.

If they have included lots of debugging code, I still haven't found it.  If
anyone know about it I would be very interested.  I promised some updates as I
found out things about the beta so this looks like a good oppourtunity.  Here
is what I have found so far.

During the installation, I forgot about many of the DLL's that the older
version had and thus am having to reinstall many of my Windows programs in
order to run in seemless.  Remember this if you use the beta.  I have only
found one more major bug and that is that if you have Win 3.1 full screen
session running, and try to use the editor in the WPS, the system hangs.  I
would ask that someone verify this.  Other than this though, it seems to be
quite stable with some nice new additions.  I am testing all my apps one by
one and will report soon as to any compatibility problems with any particular
apps.  Remember these will be only with my system and may not reflect on any
others.
>
>
>--
>David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
>dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
>----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
>Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"
>

Stacy John Behrens
*===)-------------
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Shutdown failure (?)
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:11:32 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <ccc.2.718126491@williams.edu> ccc@williams.edu (CCC) writes:
>
>	I have recently started having a strange bug: when I select 
>Shutdown, OS/2 asks if I really want to close the WPS (and any windows still 
>open), as usual. Th drive light comes on for a short bit, then goes dark. If 
>I try to shutdown again, there's no drive activity. This means I power down 
>at the end of the day without a "real" shutdown; every morning I have to 
>deal with CHKDSK searching my disk for errors. Why?

Some (poorly written) apps don't recognize the shutdown message.  They
don't pass it to the default handler, and they don't respond properly.
This effectively places the entire shutdown process on hold.  Try
killing various apps and seeing which one has to go before shutdown
proceeds. 

If you can't locate the problematic app, do this:  When you want to
power off, press <CTRL><ALT><DEL>, and wait for the screen to blank.
Then shut off the computer before it reboots.  This will flush the
disk buffers and leave the disk in a consistent state, so CHKDSK won't
have to run. 
-- 
David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: amitp@ruf.rice.edu (Amit J Patel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Tidbits about NT and OS/2 from the trade rags.
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:31:04 GMT
Reply-To: amitp@owlnet.rice.edu
Organization: Rice University

In article <1992Oct5.192833.9767@ncsu.edu>, linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
|> >
|> >Ah... where's you sources... what makes you say OS/2 seems to be
|> >catching on very well in the home market?
|> 
|> How about the fact that everyone that I know who has a PC capable of running
|> OS/2 2.0 is doing just that?
|> 

Same here... these are home computers (386/33 or higher, with 4 megs or
more of memory) owned by people I know:

	1 - DOS		[runs only games, and doesn't have Windows]
	7 - OS/2 2.0
	0 - Windows 3.1	[hmmm]



			Amit

(It was "1 - Windows 3.1" a few months ago, but he upgraded to OS/2)
From: petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly)
Subject: Re: NT alpha, OS/2 and CDROM
Date: 26 Sep 92 22:59:24 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

pardon me if this is a repost, my news machine was being flaky.


In article <1992Sep24.205621.1780@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com wrote:
> In <1992Sep24.112152.28620@microsoft.com> petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
> 

> >I'd suggest going with the hard drive.  OS/2 come's on floppy, The NT
> >release will probably be on floppy, you can get UN*X on floppy.
> 
> Gee, strangely enough, that's exactly what I suggested (although the
> argument can be made, depending on vendor and future memory plans, to
> go with 8 MB more memory).
Strangely, I don't think any ever suggested that the release of NT
would ever not come on floppy.

> >The only reason you'd probably wan't a CDROM for NT is
> >1) You are a developer with an app you want to write for NT,
> >so you need the PDK.
> >2) You REALLLY can't wait for either the beta or the release.
> 
> In other words, you're basically saying that no one REALLY has another
> use for a CD-ROM drive other than loading NT?  :-)
Well, I can think of one for you ;) ;) ;) 
(sorry, couldn't help myself, please don't take it personally).

At this time, though, the only people who have a use for NT are developers,
so my statements are true.


petesk@microsoft.com
My Opinions...
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: ch@sg1502.chemie.uni-marburg.de (Christoph H. Hochstaetter)
Subject: Re: Interesting Tidbit from Sept 21 PC week
Organization: Philipps-University Marburg
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:04:14 GMT

In article <7407@lib.tmc.edu>, jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
writes:
|> In article <1992Sep21.221933.5389@gw.wmich.edu> 925wardell@gw.wmich.edu
|> writes:
|> >I certainly don't want to have my word processor
|> >(for example) competting against the company that wrote the OS's word
|> >processor.  
|> 
|> You mean like Microsoft Weird...er...Word?

If you like waiting for the 32-bit version of PC-TEXT 4, just do it

Christoph
-- 
Internet: ch@sg1502.chemie.uni-marburg.de
BITNET: HAMPE2@DMRHRZ11
Fido: 2:243/660
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: MN OS/2 EUG *BBS* Change
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 19:45:54 -0600

                    Minnesota OS/2 End-user Group BBS
                             IMPORTANT NOTICE

The MN OS/2 End-user Group BBS expanded and moved!  You can now reach it
at any of the following phone numbers:

     (612)379-8272     1200 - 16800 (v.32, v.32bis, v.42, v.42bis)
     (612)379-8283     1200 - 16800 (v.32, v.32bis, v.42, v.42bis)
     (612)379-7026     1200 - 16800 (v.32, v.32bis, v.42, v.42bis)
     (612)379-7034     1200 - 16800 (v.32, v.32bis, v.42, v.42bis)
     (612)379-6089     1200 - 16800 (v.32, v.32bis, v.42, v.42bis)
     (612)379-8376     1200 - 16800 (v.32, v.32bis, v.42, v.42bis)

(612)379-8272 is the main number and will roll to the other numbers.  Of
course if it is out, please use one of the other numbers.

When registering for the first time, insure you answer yes to the
question about joining the MN OS/2 End-user Group side of the BBS.

************************************************************************

We have access to several OS/2 conferences, including Fido, Rime, Plink,
Usenet, a Twin City echo, and local conferences.

************************************************************************

Additionally our file area is growing daily.  Downloading OS/2 fixes
will (in the future) not count against your remaining time on the board.
We are trying to arrange permission to provide OS/2 and OS/2 product
betas.  (Wish us luck with IBM!)

Non-MN OS/2 End-user Group members will have 15 minutes access per day
at any speed.  (October 1992 is a free month and in about 24 hours
you'll be a registered user.  To retain this level, you'll need to join
the group.)

MN OS/2 End-user Group members will have 90 minutes access per day at
any speed.  Cost of member is $30 of which $10 goes to support the
board.


 * Origin: (1:282/115)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy