From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Education
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:49:24 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 6143

From article <12342@audetf>, by audetf@Software.Mitel.COM 
 Francois Audet writes:-

> In article (Christopher Browne) writes:
>
>>There is a BIG difference between:
>>(1)  Having poor availability of schools in French due to a lack of
>>demand, due to the lack of a large French population, and
> 
> Lack of demand! Bullshit. It used to be illegal to teach in french in
> a lot of provinces. People had to pretend they were educated in
> english. Of course the demand diminished since then (because of
> repression). That "demand" theory is pure interpretation. What
> justifies a french schools? 5%, 10%, 20%? In Quebec, you'll find
                                            !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> english schools (for anglo-quebecois) almost anywhere. Even if you
  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> have only a 5% portion of anglophones.

  WRONG! - My family is "anglo-quebecois" and we live in Montreal and
  (the whole point of this discussion) I DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO ENGLISH
  SCHOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!

  Perhaps Francois doesn't consider an anglophone living in Quebec who
  came here after Bill 101 was passed an "anglo-quebecois".

> 
>>(2)  FORBIDDING children to study English in school "because we have
>>to protect the French language," or some such political reason.
> 
> It is not FORBIDDING children to study in english. It's: if you want
> to immigrate to Quebec, be aware that your children will be educated
> in in french. If you think that this is unacceptable (i.e., be part of
> the society you are immigrating to), then maybee you should consider
> another place, possibly another province. It works like that in all
> so-called bilingual countries. If I emmigrate to the flemmish part of
> Belgium, I won't be able to send my kids to french school, despite the
> fact that one of the countries two official languages is french.

  Yet another denial of the existence of the English community in Quebec.

  Where there is sufficient demand for French schooling in Flemish part
  of Belgium there is no law preventing them - and there is no law 
  preventing Francois from sending his kids to them if he chose to do so!

> 
>>I guess that he should have known better than to cite Great Britain
>>for doing something nice.  A Quebecois would NEVER accept that
>>something good could come out of London.  Silly example, Mr. Potter.
> 
> He could have used any other country, it wouldn't make any difference.

  Of course : Francois is not prepared to let examples of tolerance and
  respect in other parts of the world convince him that Quebec is doing
  anything wrong.

> 
>>Yes, all regions HAVE been bilingual.  Until some of them chose to
>>take on policies of unilingualism...  Some basic services have been
>>available in both languages, and there were no legal barriers to
>>providing optional services in either language.  There are barriers
>>now.
> 
> There is a difference between offical and real bilinguism. Declaring
> Ontario bilingual will not make the people speak french, and a
> francophone would still feel he's a stanger.

  Declaring Quebec "officially unilingual French" doesnt' hide the
  fact that there is an English community in the province either!

  Declaring Quebec "officially unilingual French" doesn't hide the
  fact that it is de facto bilingual French and English either!

> 
>>But the point is, he came to a country that has TWO official
>>languages, and people speaking either language DO have rights relating
>>to those languages THROUGHOUT the country.
> 
> As I pointed out earlier, that's not true in any of the bilingual (or
> multilingual) country I know. Doesn't work this way in Belgium or in
> Switzerland.

  Yes it does: to the extent that that there are no restrictive laws like
  Bill 101 over there!

  In most of Europe it is simply a matter of demographics and common sense.

  That is the way it should be here!

> 
> And by the way "having the right" throughout the country means that
> the facilities must also be present to ensure that these rights are
> effective.
> 

  No it doesn't! : "having the right" means not being restricted by law
  from doing something - whether the facilities are available or not has
  nothing to do with the right to use facilities that do, in fact, exist -
  as in Quebec!

>>Quebec is, and has been for some 125 years, a part of the country that
>>is called Canada.  The fact that you'd like to change that does not
>>change the fact.
> 
> Canada has been officially bilingual since then, and the rights of the
> francophone minorities have been denied in most places for that period
> of time. More than enought to decimate the french population to a
> point-of-no-return level.
> 

  That are not denied - they are not available!

  A lot of help francophones in ROC got from the Quebec government! :-(

>>If and when there is a breakup, I STRONGLY suspect that the resulting
>>states will BOTH be officially unilingual, and large minorities WILL
>>be offended.
> 
> They already are.

  There is Francois' strange perception of reality again.

> 
>>And some of the offenses are already starting.  In Quebec, anglophones
>>ARE being systematically discriminated against.  Not as random acts by
>>foolish individuals, but by the government in power.  
> 
> Mega-bullshit again. In some parts of Montreal, you cannot get service
> in anything but english. You talk to people in french and they answer
> you in english. I don't know of anything similar anywhere outside
> Quebec, i.e., asking something in english and having people answer you
> back in french.

  Hello? Francois? Over here!

  I am an anglophone and I am discriminated against - by your Quebec
  government!

  Francois is trying to deny the existence of a strong English-speaking
  community in the West Island part of Montreal now!

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: can.politics