From: harwood@umiacs.umd.edu (David Harwood)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: quakerism, Christianity, etc
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:39:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

In article <1k1n7mINN5c7@borg.cs.unc.edu> thall@cs.unc.edu (Andrew Thall) writes:

|> really?  the historical Christ said:
|> 
|> I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, BUT
|> by me.  (John 14:6, emphasis mine)
|
|Such a view denies the light of God to all but a small fraction of the people
|who have ever lived on this planet.  Either Jesus was misquoted on this one,
|or he meant it different than it sounds...or the words were ill-said--the idea
|seemingly espoused is unworthy of the goodness I'd like to associate with the
|person of Jesus.
|
|Don't mean to start any religious wars, or abuse anyone's holy scriptures.
|As a Jew, I admire the love of humanity taught by the Quaker faith; what's in
|a person's heart is between him/her and God, but how s/he treats other people
|is the mark of a good individual and a good life.

\\\\\\\

Let us be more precise - as you say. Modern scholarship is not sure
about what is the intended meaning and parsing of this controversial
verse, and ancient commentaries give it various literal, but exclusivist
interpretations. But keep in mind: John is written by a Jew, so his
Greek words refer to contemporary Jewish religious concepts most of
the time, which were intelligible to its author, and intended by him
(if not her or them;-). So what does "the way" mean in Judaism, 
"truth" in Hebrew of Judaism, and "life" ('eternal life' as John
characteristically refers to this.

The very first name of Christians was not "Christians" after all;
it was said to be followers of "The Way" - in the NT book of
Acts, a kind of first history, supposed to have been written by
the same Gentile author of the Gospel of Luke, said to have 
accompanied the apostle Paul. (The latter was first to write 
about Christianity; the Gospels were editted later after Israel
was destroyed, and Jesus did not return to earth.)

So there is surely a connection between "the Way" and its use
by original Jewish Christians. Moreover, this has an important
meaning in Judaism - since "way of life" halacha is Judaism's
prescription for how God would have Jews live their lives
(with some lesser prescritions for Gentiles, which are noted
in part, in Acts, as accepted by converts).

So John has Jesus refer to himself as "a way of life" and
so does Judaism prescibe (a somewhat different, radically
different in some respects, "way of life" - which is outlined
in the "Sermon on the Mount" - which is addressed like a
pronouncement of new Torah (and halacha, 'way of life') -
brought down by Christ, 'from the mount' (God's presence).

So we have Jesus' "way of life" (ie of 'eternal life - life
with God' according to John). [I might note that the Qumran
(Dead Sea Scroll sect) also refers to its own "way of life"
which is also opposed to contemporary religious 'establishment.'
And they call themsleve followers of "teh Way" as do Christians
later.

Finally, we have to consider what the jewish concept of "truth"
means in Biblical Judaism. One of the names given God in the
Hebrew Bible (eg in Isaiah), 'characterizing" Him is: He is
"the God of Truth" - this is the word "amen " which is so
well known by Christians. In fact, in John, Jesus says again
and again, "Verily, verily - I say unto you...." when it is
clear this means "Amen, amen - I say to you ..." to show that
Jesus is making an profound pronouncement of divine truth, much
as a prophet might explcitly use the reserved Biblical
expression, "This saith the Lord ...."

But what does "truth" mean as a Jewish concept "amen" - it does
not mean quite what it does in Greek words for this, literally.
And it does not mean what we mean sometimes - abstract truth value:
true as opposed to false. Neither does it mean knowledge or true
belief or intent.

In Judaism, "truth" is one of the attributes ("names" or characterizations)
of God - what God is like - there are 13 such attributes enumerated
Jewish tradition, based on "names" given to god in the Hebrew Bible.
Now, John does compare Jesus to God, adn so he has Jesus make similar
pronouncements, as God does when he discloses soemthing of his nature
by pronouncing one of His "names" (a self-formula): eg He says,
"I am the God of Abraham, ...", "I am gracious to whom I gracious,"
"I am merciful to whom I am merciful," "I am the Lord, thy God - you
shall have no other gods besides me..."

And note the similarity of this last divine pronouncement, to the
exclusivity of John's expression of Jesus; and note that John has
Jesus also reveal himself by similar formulaic "names":
"I am ... the Light of the world," "I am the resurrection (and life)
ego eimi anabasis, with insert, and "I am the Way, Truth, and Life."

Biblical "truth" (amen) of the God of "truth" means that God is
"actual" in the universe (not hypothetical or abstract). So Jesus
is compared to God, in this formalaic expression, like a characterization
of God in the Hebrew Bible, and John refers to Jesus' own life
as God's way of life, in actuality.

And I agree with John's expression of Jesus' life, that mankind *should*
life as Jesus does - his life is what God intends for us.

As for whether every lifestyle is OK, and whether truth is relative;
if we are created by a Creator (as I believe with good reason), then
I doubt it.

As for whether only some Christians are 'saved' - I doubt that many
people of any way of life, live like Jesus did. And I doubt that they
are very well acquainted with God. So far, John is correct.

As far whether some others, who reject Jesus, are enlightened by God
in their lives - such as fellow and historical Jews - Jesus himself
says that Abraham, David, and Isaiah saw him, his "glory" (light),
or his "Day" (an early Jewish Christian name for the "Day" when
the light of Christ first dawned on their hearts, making for their
conversion (transformation to become Christians - most early
Friends had this experience, but is seems to be rare among
modern Friends - a bad sign for the times that God's presence si
removed from Friends, indeed.)

So John acknowledges that some non-Christaisn have "seen the light"
of Christ (attending him) without recognizing that it attends to
Christ, among many many Christians in every generation for thousands
of years. Moreover, John acknowledges that these Patriarchs and
prophetsof Israel were motivated by a Messianic light which they could
not fully comprehend. (The "light" is not perfectly intelligible,
but is formless, it illuminates and judges our thoughts, and changes
out intentions - it is like a "staff of God" like a staff of
lightning from "heaven," where is our eternal "Shepherd" - prodding
and guiding us to know and do what is right.) The "light" of Christ
was not perfectly intelligible even to Paul, a devout Jew - he did
not see Jesus' form in the formless light - he had to ask what was
the identity and intention behind the light, according to Luke's
accounst of Paul's conversion in Acts, the only such psychological
account of conversion and 'enlightenment' (photisma) in the New
Testament. (The expression occurs elsewhre in the New Testament,
and scholarship shows that this NT expression (enlightenmetn) referred
to conversion experience which was common and distinctive among
original Christians (as it was among Friends originally but is not
evident today, except it is confused with some other notions. It
is an unmistakeable experience. In my personal experience, it only
is common among those with religious vocations, such as missionaries;
there are also numerous accounts in histories of famous bishops,
church leaders, as well as religious geniuses such as Pascal,
Friend John Woolman, or poet Dante (read the very ending of his
famous poem- it is based on his own conversion experience; it is
remakably resonant in teh lives of all Christians.)

Do modern of historical Jews, among others, witness God's light
eevn if they reject Christ? I asked a very respected Orthodox rabbi
and scientist about this: Do religious Jews today see God's light,
which guides their lives adn illuminates their religiosu studies?
I told him why I was curious - my impression from extensive reading
of rabbinical Judaism strongly suggest that some (few) among them
are actually 'enlightened' by God, eevn though they reject Christ.
So I wonder what Providence is this of God? God is merciful to whom
he is merciful; he is gracious to whom he is gracious." That was
what God said to Moses, according to Exodus.

I infer this from their writings, not because they say so, but
because they interpret certain things in a way that is not obvious,
but would only be known by someone who has direct experience.

Anyway, I asked of my acquaintance, the rabbi (and famous scientist),
whether modern Jews are so enlightened by God today, as apparently
were some of the greatest and most influential religious teachers?
And were there  converts to Judaism, among secular jews or among others,
who were caleld to be jews, by such a divine revelation?

He seemed to be dumbstruck, and could not bring himself to reply directly
about such direct penetrating questions. (He respects me.) So I did not
want to make him unconfortable, but allowed the discussion to be averted.

This is what I know, that is relevant for present dicussion. (And I have
time to write about.)
David H.

Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker