From: ethridge@crchh403 (Allen Ethridge)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: A different view of God
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:12:09 GMT
Organization: BNR, Inc.
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Fred Rice (darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote:
: [too many deletions, including Albert Haig's original text]
: 
: I don't see why you feel it is necessary to reject all religion.  I must
: admit, I find this strange, as your own personal concept of God is
: present in many religions.
: 
: Firstly regarding your comment that all religions mould God into human
: form.  I disagree with this statement.  Where is the God in human form
: in Taoism, for example?  As far as I am aware, it is not present there.

Where is the God in Taoism, let alone in human form?  I wasn't aware that
God was a part of Taoist beliefs.  And i've also been taught by Taoists who
would object to Taoism being called a religion.

: [lots more deletions]
: 
: What I'm trying to get at is essentially a version of what is
: known as the "Perennial Philosophy".  This holds that the essence of
: many religions is identical.  At present I am studying the version of
: the Perennial Philosophy expounded by Frithjof Schuon.  In Schuon's
: version, all the "revealed" religions -- in which he includes Islam,
: Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and other "old" religions as
: well -- have in their esoteric dimension the same truths, even though in
: their exoteric dimension they may be quite different.  The esoteric
: dimension of these religions is essentially their mysticisms -- eg. in
: the case of Islam, this would be Sufism -- whereas the exoteric
: dimension of these religions is the dogmatic type of religion the
: majority of the religion's adherents would probably follow.  The
: exoteric dimension of a religion is seen as a sort of doorway to the
: religion's esoteric dimension.  Schuon proposes that there have been
: several "revelations" over the course of history, founding and
: supporting these "revealed religions."  However, at the heart of these
: religions is the direct communication with God, which is the mysticism
: associated with various religions. 

You ignore the fact that many of the students and practitioners of these
various religions would object to this interpretation of religion, which
simply makes this "Perennial Philosophy" a distinct religion of its own,
no more valid than any of the others.

In this post and others you appeal to the unity of mystical beliefs.  But
if you read the writings of various mystics you discover that they say
different things.  Some describe the mystical experience, as you did above,
as direct communication with God, or being in the presence of God.  Others
describe it as unity with God.  These are not the same thing!  Still others,
such as Taoists, leave God out of it entirely and wave their hands about
direct knowledge or awareness of the source of reality.  Mystics tend to
express their experiences in terms of the religion of the culture in which
they live.  If there is a unity among mystical beliefs it exists despite
religions, and not as a support of religion.  Religion only serves to limit
the expression of the mystical experience.  Mysticism and religion, or the
esoteric and exoteric aspects of religion as you wish to call them, are in
conflict with each other.  This "Perennial Philosophy" is simply another way
of limiting mystical expression.

A more cynical person might point out that this mystical experience is
strikingly similar to the experiences induced by psychedelic drugs.

: 
: [still more deletions]

Regarding the commonality in various mythologies - the fact that we all
dream does not imply the objective existence of a dream world.  It's the
"objectifying" of mythology that atheists are opposed to, and most religions
appear to be about.

: 
:  Fred Rice / Dien Rice (I'm known as both)
:  darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au  
:  Dept. of Physics, Monash University, Melbourne, Australia

It always worries me when physicists get involved in mystical philosophy,
but this just might be a personal problem.
--
allen@well.sf.ca.us
ethridge@bnr.ca
my opinions are my own
Newsgroups: alt.atheism