From: rjfrey@rentec.com (Robert J Frey)
Newsgroups: sci.math,comp.edu,misc.education,sci.edu
Subject: Re: Minimum standards for math "competency"
Keywords: math competency education university college standards
Date: 21 Nov 92 07:28:58 GMT
Followup-To: sci.math
Organization: Renaissance Technologies Corp., Setauket, NY.

In article <1992Nov18.165157.14599@fcom.cc.utah.edu> swillden@icarus.weber.edu writes:
>At Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, U.S.A (where I am working on a
>B.S. in math and CS) there is a movement to change (lower) the
>standards for math competency...
>
>The proposal is championed by the departments of various social
>sciences (Sociology, communications, etc.) who feel that math 105 is
>simply too difficult for their students to pass.  (Math 105 is
>essentially a high-school algebra course)...
>
>
>Also ... I would like to find out what standards are at other schools...
>
As someone with a Ph.D. in applied mathematics who has spend time as both an
academic and an applied mathematician in industry, I would like to offer you 
an alternate question: What mathematics will students need when they get out
into the world REGARDLESS of what is or is not required in your or any other 
university?

The answer in that case is clear. They need a lot more than they're getting!
It is serendipitous that I recently gave an invited paper dealing with this 
issue at a recent conference. The title of the talk was "A View from Outside:
The Challenge of Mathematics Education." What it dealt with is the failure
of educational institutions in this country to produce graduates, at both
the secondary and postsecondary levels, who have the mathematical skills
required of workers in a modern industrial society.

We're not talking about math majors here, but of factory workers, maintenance
personnel, etc. who lack the skills to work with flexible manufacturing 
systems, computer aided manufacturing, just-in-time inventory policies and
statistical quality control techniques. It is incomprehensible to me that a 
professor of sociology, who is well aware of the role statistics plays in
his or her discipline, can not only suggest that someone graduate with a 
B.A. in sociology without a solid statistics course but without even a solid
command of "high school" algebra.

If you want I can snail mail you a copy of the presentation. Here however are a
few facts:

	o	The Jobs Almanac's top 5 jobs are all mathematically based:
		actuary, computer programmer, systems analyst, mathematician
		and statistician.

	o	The Workforce 2000 report from the BLS estimates that 41% of
		all new jobs will require "high" levels of skill in language,
		mathematics and reasoning, compared with only 24% of current
		jobs.

	o	Between '73 and '90 real per capita GNP increased 28% but real
		hourly wages for non-supervisory personnel fell 12%. There
		were many reasons for this, but the discrepancy was due in
		large part to lower rates of productivity growth in the U.S.
		compared to Europe and Asia.

	o	The math scores of the top 1% of American high school students
		would place them in the 50th percentile in Japan (that's not
		a typo). How can we expect to compete with Japan in high tech
		manufacturing?

Thus, even if a sociology or communication major didn't already need a certain
amount of mathematical training, he or she would need competency in math simply
to qualify to work in a modern office or factory. At the conference, which BTW
was "A SUNY Conversation in the Disciplines - Applied Mathematics: Prospects
for the 1990's," a training manager for LILCO, the local power utility, stood
up and said that his company often had to put new workers through several
months of training before they could be productive.

My recommendations to you are as follows: 

	o	Hit 'em with facts, HARD. Good sources: Lester Thurow, Head to
		Head, Morrow, 1992; and National Academy Press, A Challenge of
		Numbers: People in the Mathematical Sciences, 1990. These 
		contain extensive references which will point you further.

	o	Get the support of local industry. A representative from the
		Really Big Corp. who is willing to support your position by
		saying that innumerate graduates won't be getting jobs with
		them is going to be VERY persuasive.

None of this means your original idea of comparing your university with others
is wrong. I'm simply putting these ideas forward as a more or less orthogonal
strategy that will greatly enhance your arguments.

Good luck!!!
--
Dr. Robert J. Frey
Renaissance Technologies Corp
25 East Loop Rd.
Stony Brook, NY 11790
email: rjfrey@rentec.com -- voice: (516)246-5550 -- fax: (516)246-5761
Newsgroups: sci.math