Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Isaiah does not prophesy Christ
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 14:20:05 GMT
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Organization: SPSS Inc.

pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>>>In article <78714@hydra.gatech.EDU>
>>>rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
>>>>You know I consider the OT and NT vaild.  And the NT shines light
>>>>on the OT, but yet too the NT comes from the OT, for the NT tells us
>>>>what Jesus did, but the OT tells us he was coming.
>>>You think what you know is the absolute right, the absolute truth. 
>>Almost every religion makes this claim, implicitly or not.  That it holds
>>the one, true way, and is the sole possesor of God's truth.  Christianity,
>>Islam and Judaism sure do...
>
>This statement is not correct. This kind of dogmatic thinking is largely
>limited to the two great conversion religions: Christianity and Islam.
Hardly 'not correct'...first of all, I said 'most,' and secondly, all three
of the ones I pointed out fit the bill (ie those that make up >95% of
western religion.  In any event, a religion is basically a system of
truths, which generally rejects other systems of truths.

>For example, from the Hindu epic, The Mahabharata, Buck translation,
>Yudhisthira talks to the lake of unquenchable thirst, his father Dharma:
>Lake: "What is hypocrisy?"
>Yudhi: "The setting up of religious standards for others is hypocrisy."
>...
>Yudhi: "I don't know what you think of all this."
>Lake: "You answer well," said the invisible voice. "I am you father
>Dharma. I came to test your merit, and I have found it true, and I
>return your brothers to life."

But Hinduism certainly claims that it is correct and true, nicht wahr? 

>>>You think that what you know of the NT is the absolute truth. 
>>For a Christian this is a basic tenet.
>Do you really mean this Steve? The NT may be the absolute truth, but
>can one's *knowledge* of the NT also be the absolute truth? Can any human
>claim to know the absolute truth, to be as the Gods? 
No...you are correct...I dropped out the more or less confusing dogma, but
I get your point.  Same thing Sean has been saying - we can never 'know'
anything for absolute certain....

>>>You use the OT
>>>only as a prop, you already know what the OT says because you know the
>>>absolute truth of Jesus Christ. Hebrew may just as well be a forgotten
>>>language, it matters not what the Hebrew actually says because your absolute
>>>knowledge of the absolute truth of Jesus Christ tells you exactly what
>>>the Hebrew actually means. You use the NT only as proof that what you
>>>know is the absolute truth and you use the OT as a prop for the NT.
>>This is often the case, but not always.  There are Christians who do not do
>>this, but they are few and far between.  I for one acknowledge the Tanak
>>for what it is.  Hebrew Scripture.  While I do hold that the NT is valid
>>truth, that in no way denies the valid truths proclaimed in the Tanak.
>>Yeshua himself said this..."Not one jot or title of the Law shall pass
>>away."  In other words, don't discard the Tanak you dolts, what I'm
>>teaching reveals the Tanak, it does NOT replace it.
>Of course Yehoshua ben Yosef (Jesus) also said something to the effect that he
>did not come to replace the Mosaic Law (Torah), but to fulfill it.
>Meaning, as in all good metaphor, uncertain. Did Jesus come to obey
>Mosaic Law and set an example for others, or did his life relieve
>Christians of the need to obey Mosaic Law?
Christians aren't relieved of the need, in my reading...Christ in fact went
*BEYOND* the law ("you have heard it said, but I say...").  The Law was
given to highlight and demonstrate our sins...they are a standard to be
measured against...

 -Steve
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   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558