HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kenji@rcac.astem.or.jp (Kenji Rikitake)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Coherent 4.0.1r68+ (DDK Kernel) known bugs
Date: 11 Jan 93 08:13:56 GMT
Organization: RCAC Project, ASTEM RI, Kyoto, Japan

Coherent known bugs on DDK kernel (4.0.1r68+)
by Kenji Rikitake
Version 1.0 11-JAN-1993

This memo describes problems I experienced after I installed Coherent
386 DDK Kernel (4.0.1r68+). Inquiries and comments should be directed
to me by email to <kenji@rcac.astem.or.jp>.

========

1. Implementation changes

* As Udo Munk mentioned in his Problem FAQ, DDK Kernel now has "stty
istrip"ed terminal driver. This means 8-bit input will not get through
unless you do "stty -istrip". I recommend you to perform this on your
.profile or at /etc/profile.

* /bin/ps output format has been changed from r65. It now requires
only 35Kbyte or so to run.

* Message queue implementation has been changed from r65.  msgget(key,
0) did not work on r65 so I had to write it as msgget(key, 0777). But
now 0777 permission doesn't work.

2. Bugs (anything else? :) )

* settz() often does not set correct tzname[0] value.

* elvis does not accept 8-bit (i.e. MSB=1) character even after you
set -istrip by stty. Current version (1.6) of elvis uses sgtty library
to handle terminal I/O, so I modified to use termio library instead on
curses.c, and the bug was fixed. I suspect sgtty library does not
properly handle r68 terminal driver.

* One more terminal driver bug: when I tried to use termio's VMIN and
VTIME features on -icanon mode to reimplement elvis, I experienced
"PANIC: Kernel Page Fault" when I set VTIME other than 0. The system
crashes when it faces with this bug, so be careful. (Note: this bug
appeared when I enabled M_SYSV option in unix.c of elvis 1.6.)

* tin 1.1 PL6 crashes just after the reader post a followup article.
It seems r68 kernel sends SIGCHLD/SIGCLD (signal 18) when a child
process (elvis editor in this case) terminates. How should I handle
SIGCHLD/SIGCLD? I modified tin to SIG_IGN SIGCHLD/SIGCLD and it runs
OK so far.

========

[End of Memorandum]
--
Kenji Rikitake, cyberspace samurai, RCAC Project
office: <kenji@rcac.astem.or.jp> / home: <kenji@rd.macrofield.or.jp> 
"There is little excuse to continue propagating bang paths or mixed formats."
       -- Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com>, Message-ID: <COLw2o.H82@wimsey.bc.ca>
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
From: sjsobol@wariat.org (Steven J. Sobol)
Subject: Mike Willett
Organization: APK Public Access Unix * Cleveland, OH
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 19:25:36 GMT

can you please e-mail me, I don't have your address (your new one anyhow)...
I apologize for the semi-unnecessary post...
-- 
Steve Sobol   Head Cheerleader, APK Public Access *nix/Internet
(216) 481-9436 <2400 baud>     (216) 481-9425 <v.32bis, TurboPEP>
Telnet: wariat.org   To register: send e-mail to info@wariat.org, or
log in to BBS and download file 'user.new' from file area 2.

Also President of The Tiny Software Co.   E-Mail Address: sjsobol@tiny.com
From: hcpiv@GRUMPY.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA ("Harry C. Pulley IV")
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: vgalib compiled - will upload after some  testing
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:09:35 GMT
Reply-To: "Coherent operating system" <COHERENT@indycms.bitnet>

I have compiled and ar'ed vgalib so there is no need for others to work on it
unless they want to for an exercise.  I will write some test programs (or can
Charles Shannon Hendrix, who sent me the code, send some sample programs?) and
test the library.  If it works OK then I will upload it to raven soon.

BTW, it supports many modes in standard VGA, including 640x480x16 and
360x480x256.

Thanks CSH!

Harry
From: messina@NETCOM.COM (Tony Porczyk)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Is there any hope left?
Date: 6 Jan 93 04:12:02 GMT
Reply-To: "Coherent operating system" <COHERENT@indycms.bitnet>

In comp.os.coherent you write:

>What revision of Coherent do you have?  Call! Tech support! at this point
>it is worth the call.       Ed MWC Tech Support

It's been long solved now.  Say hello to Jim :-)
From: hph@hphbbs.E.open.de (H.P. Heidinger, Essen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: I'm a new user
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Organization: HPHBBS-COHERENT User Conference/Germany (CUC-Ger)
Date: Sun,  3 Jan 93 23:59:26 +0100

Pierre Ficheux (pierre@lectra.fr) wrote:
: 	Hi Coherent world,

: 	I'm a new user of Coherent and i would like to know where i can get (or
: post) softwares (what newsgroup, ftp site, mail server...).

: 	Perhaps it is in a FAQ but where is the FAQ ?

   FAQs are posted here on a somewhat irregular basis.

: 	Do you know if there is a french Coherent user group ?

   I don't know of a french COHERENT discussion forum, but
   the German 'de.comp.os.coherent' from the German sub-hierarchy
   (de...) isn't used by anyone, although it exists.
   You might try to startup with 'fr.comp.os.coherent', but I wouldn't
   expect too much if I were you ...


Regards, Peter
--
####################===============================****************************
# H.P. Heidinger   # Call  : +49-201-287433 (data) * ~~ HPHBBS ~~~ CUC-Ger ~~ *
# Steeler Str. 121 #       : V22/32/42bis, 8N1     * COHERENT User Conference *
# 4300 Essen 1     # E-Mail: hph@CUC-Ger.E.open.de *         Germany          *
# Germany          # Login : guest or "anon. UUCP" * UUlog=nuucp/MYNAME=nuucp *
####################===============================****************************
#  UNIX is a trademark of AT&T ...  AT&T is a modem test command ....  :-)    #
--
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent,comp.os.linux
From: jem@sunSITE.unc.edu (Jonathan Magid)
Subject: Re: Linux v. Coherent: Comments
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:58:19 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.235813.11175@solucor.uucp> jack@solucor.uucp (Jacques Gelinas) writes:
>khockenbury@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu writes:
>
>>In article <1ihc1iINNh6q@uwm.edu>, rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller, Linux Device
>>Registrar) writes: 
>>> 
>>> Filching code from Linux and/or 386BSD to call it your own is a big no-no.
>>But filching code from Linux and releasing it under GPL is just fine... :-)
>
>>	-Kurt
>
>There is nothing wrong with this. Many (all) UNIX supplier are doing
>this. The graphic part is X. It is freely available. Networking may
>be gotten in different place. The same place where Linux took it I guess.

Oh good! I suspect that Ross Biro will be pleased, as it should keep him
employed for quite some time!

Remeber folks: Linux is *NOT* at all based on the Berkeley NET/2 release.

Please don't imply that it is, lest the evil lawyers of AT&T (now Novell?)
come banging on Linus' (or your!) door.

1/2 :)

jem.

-- 
Jonathan Magid     jem@sunSITE.unc.edu       sunSITE Administrator
Virtual pizza Delivery (tm)::faxed in 30 cycles or less or you get it
----------------------------------------FREE!!!-----------------------
From: jik@PIT-MANAGER.MIT.EDU ("Jonathan I. Kamens")
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Coherent version 4.0 Notes
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:32:35 GMT
Reply-To: "Coherent operating system" <COHERENT@indycms.bitnet>


  You might want to consider cross-posting your periodic posting to
the news.answers newsgroup, which is meant to serve as a repository
for quick browsing and archiving of periodic postings.  News.answers
is a useful resource for USENET users, and each new periodic posting
that is cross-posted to it makes it more useful.

  Even if you don't want to submit to news.answers, you might want to
get an entry for your posting in the "List of Periodic Informational
Postings."

  In any case, you should try to use a consistent Subject line format
when posting your article.  This provides two advantages:

1. People who do not want to see it can easily use KILL files or
   other, similar mechanisms to avoid it, and

2. Automatic periodic posting archivers can archive it based on its
   Subject line.

  For more information, see these postings:

Subject: news.answers submission guidelines
Newsgroups: news.answers

Subject: Introduction to the news.answers newsgroup
Newsgroups: news.announce.newusers,news.answers

Subject: List of Periodic Informational Postings, Part 1/4
Newsgroups: news.lists,news.announce.newusers,news.answers

Available in the indicated USENET newsgroup(s), or via anonymous ftp from
pit-manager.mit.edu (18.172.1.27) in the files:

/pub/usenet/news.answers/news-answers/guidelines
/pub/usenet/news.answers/news-answers/introduction
/pub/usenet/news.answers/periodic-postings/part1

Also available from mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu by sending a mail
message containing any or all of:

send usenet/news.answers/news-answers/guidelines
send usenet/news.answers/news-answers/introduction
send usenet/news.answers/periodic-postings/part1

Send a message containing "help" to get general information about the
mail server.

--
Jonathan Kamens                                         jik@MIT.Edu
Aktis, Inc.                                 Moderator, news.answers
From: mauritz_c@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Processing texinfo files (how?)
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:02:09 GMT
Organization: SPC Community Access System

What does one do with texinfo files that come with the GNU
packages to get them into printable form?  Ideally, I'd like
to get the output into postscript format so I can print the
stuff out on my Laserwriter at work.
 
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
 
Cheers,
 
Chris
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
From: clau@acs.ucalgary.ca (Christopher Lau)
Subject: Coherent modem control and getty wedge
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 06:43:39 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Hello-

Has anyone out there tried the getty wedge program (wedge.zip on raven)?
It needed a tweak or two (namely removing the "\n" from the part of the
code sending the modem-init string, and writing a new disable command to
fix permissions on the ports) to make it work.   

While it seems to work fine (I don't really need its auto-baud features since
my modem is locked at 38.4k, but its automatic modem permission correction
and modem initialization features are very useful- I can always connect fine
whereas before, either the modeminit wouldn't work correctly (RD or TD light
would stay lit after modeminit and modem wouldn't function until addressed
(an AT command sent to it) or reset- this happened on five different modems
ranging from a Hayes 2400 to a USR dual standard and on two different serial
boards so I don't think its the modem nor the serial card's fault) or getty
would spawn login too quickly and the login message would terminate connect.)
but my question is: would it be possible to get these features, but with
modem control (SIGHUP generated when CD is lost) on the line as well (the
wedge currently requires that you run it on "local" port to avoid the blocking
open of the modem control lines)?

My "dream" version of modem control would be:

		o  open would NOT block if CD signal is not present BUT,
		   (can this be disabled in Coh 4.0?)
		o  can use sgtty/termio to determine status of CD line
		o  SIGHUP generated to all processes in process group on
		   TRANSITION of CD line from high to low

This isn't too different than what MWC is doing right now, but would be
much more flexible than the current arrangement.

Yes- I CAN write a daemon which would monitor the CD line using the
TIOCRMSR function, but it would be MUCH easier (and less CPU intensive)
to modify the driver since it's already doing most of what I'd like it to.

c4
-- 
Christopher Lau                      |    Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor,
The University of Calgary            |    not an engineer!
Dept. of Electrical & Computer Engg. |    Well, you're an engineer now..
lau@enel.ucalgary.ca -OR- clau@acs.ucalgary.ca -OR- root@fusion.cuc.ab.ca
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
From: ksh@hobbes.ds.boeing.com (K. Scott Hunziker)
Subject: Re: taylor
Organization: Boeing Defense & Space Group
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:52:25 GMT

Frank Pittel (fwp@fwpbbs.UUCP) wrote:

: When I try to "make" the Makefile I get the error:
: 		make: 5: multiple actions for .c.o

: chinet.chi.il.us!fwpbbs!fwp

Sounds like you're using the crippled make that MWC ships.  If so, you
should get one that works, like GNU make.  (Of course, you may still
have to struggle a bit to make make.)

--

Scott Hunziker
ksh@hobbes.ds.boeing.com
From: fwp@fwpbbs.UUCP (Frank Pittel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: castle
Date: 11 Jan 93 04:14:52 GMT

I just downloaded a copy of the game castle from mwcbbs, and am having trouble
with it. After uncompressing and untaring it I ran make on it and all seemed
to go well. However when I try to play the game it'll work for a while bam
usr trap (segment violation). Also when I bring up the help screen the first
screen comes up but then when I press a key bam usr trap. (segment violation)

Has anyone here been able to get castle to work? If so what did you have to 
do to get things to go.

Thanx
Frank
From: kenji@rcac.astem.or.jp (Kenji Rikitake)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Taylor UUCP on raven does not work
Date: 6 Jan 93 01:44:59 GMT
Organization: RCAC Project, ASTEM RI, Kyoto, Japan

I've got an old Taylor UUCP (1.03beta) at raven.alaska.edu archive. It
did not talk with SunOS 4.0.3 UUCP connected thru Telebit g-protocol
spoofing. Anybody has successful story on installing and using Taylor
UUCP?

I am running Taylor UUCP 1.03 on daemun (my site), so I know how to
configure it, but I don't know how to debug on Coherent.

Thanks in advance,
// Kenji
--
Kenji Rikitake, cyberspace samurai
<kenji@rcac.astem.or.jp> <kenji@rd.macrofield.or.jp> <...!uunet!reseau!kenji>
From: ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Christopher Mauritz)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Tin 117/8 again
Date: 4 Jan 93 07:25:54 GMT
Organization: Ritz International, Inc. -- Import/Export Consultants
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Could some kind sould upload Tin 1.1 pl7 or pl8 to Raven (or mail
it to me so I can)?  The version in the sources32 directory is
quite old.  Due to a kernel upgrade, it would seem that I have
to do a recompile to get tin to behave again and I'd rather not
go back to pl4.

Cheers,

Chris
--
Christopher Mauritz                 | My views reflect those of my
ritz@ritz.mordor.com                | company since I own the company.
{backbone}!rutgers!spcvxb!ritz!ritz | Ritz International, Inc.
OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2  | Import/Export Consultants
Xref: sparky comp.os.coherent:6713 comp.os.linux:23398
From: ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Christopher Mauritz)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Taylor UUCP on raven does not work
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:57:57 GMT
Organization: Ritz International, Inc. -- Import/Export Consultants
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Superuser (root@rwsys.wimsey.bc.ca) wrote:
OS/2> > I've got an old Taylor UUCP (1.03beta) at raven.alaska.edu archive. It
OS/2> > did not talk with SunOS 4.0.3 UUCP connected thru Telebit g-protocol
OS/2> > spoofing. Anybody has successful story on installing and using Taylor
OS/2> > UUCP?

What kind of errors are you getting?  Remember, Tbits spoof at 64 bytes
and 3 windows.  I think Taylor uses 64/7 as the default.

OS/2> The archive seems to be broken. This makes it impossible to compile,
OS/2> but the precompiled binaries work. There is a problem with speed
OS/2> though.

What kind of speed problems?  If anything, Taylor is noticably faster
than the standard uucp suite.  Try being a little patient.  Bob@mwc's
port is in beta test right now.  I'm getting about 900-950 cps throughput
with it over a v.32 (9600 baud) connection.  That is about 10% faster 
than I was getting from the standard uucp.  It is also much more
tolerant of line noise.

Cheers,

Chris

--
Christopher Mauritz                 | My views reflect those of my
ritz@ritz.mordor.com                | company since I own the company.
{backbone}!rutgers!spcvxb!ritz!ritz | Ritz International, Inc.
OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2  | Import/Export Consultants
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
From: smile@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Mike Brady)
Subject: Re: DOS under Coherent?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:07:12 GMT

In <1993Jan10.053243.9388@news.uiowa.edu> kkuhlman@icaen.uiowa.edu (Kenneth Scott Kuhlman) writes:

>     Is there any way to run DOS as a process under Coherent?  Is there any
>chance of it ever happening?


This may happen -- but I doubt it. I ran a UNIXPC years ago and there was
a seperate board that went into the machine to allow this (DOS-73). It 
basically emulated a 8086 at 8mhz -- SLOW.

My solution works, but is rather costly. I was running coherent v3.2.1
on a 286/12 -- upgraded to a 386/40 with coherent 4.0.1 (now with r70).
I converted the 286 back to a DOS machine (this is the costly part if you
don't have a extra computer sitting there). Linking the two together via
a null modem. The dos machine is running ANYWHERE and I connect with the
taylor uucp program "cu" to the dos machine, ie: cu dos
and I am running a full dos "shell". Doing it this way gives me a full dos
machine (and thus not sucking cpu cycles off of unix) in and of itself...
Just my solution. This does allow me to run any program I need (such as
QUICKEN, Norton Utilities, Lotus 1-2-3, etc...)
From: kenji@RCAC.ASTEM.OR.JP (Kenji Rikitake)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Coherent DDK Kernel (4.0.1r68+) known problems
Date: 11 Jan 93 06:01:37 GMT
Reply-To: "Coherent operating system" <COHERENT@indycms.bitnet>

Coherent known bugs on DDK kernel (4.0.1r68+)
by Kenji Rikitake
Version 1.0 11-JAN-1993

This memo describes problems I experienced after I installed Coherent
386 DDK Kernel (4.0.1r68+). Inquiries and comments should be directed
to me by email to <kenji@rcac.astem.or.jp>.

========

1. Implementation changes

* As Udo Munk mentioned in his Problem FAQ, DDK Kernel now has "stty
istrip"ed terminal driver. This means 8-bit input will not get through
unless you do "stty -istrip". I recommend you to perform this on your
.profile or at /etc/profile.

* /bin/ps output format has been changed from r65. It now requires
only 35Kbyte or so to run.

* Message queue implementation has been changed from r65.  msgget(key,
0) did not work on r65 so I had to write it as msgget(key, 0777). But
now 0777 permission doesn't work.

2. Bugs (anything else? :) )

* settz() often does not set correct tzname[0] value.

* elvis does not accept 8-bit (i.e. MSB=1) character even after you
set -istrip by stty. Current version (1.6) of elvis uses sgtty library
to handle terminal I/O, so I modified to use termio library instead on
curses.c, and the bug was fixed. I suspect sgtty library does not
properly handle r68 terminal driver.

* One more terminal driver bug: when I tried to use termio's VMIN and
VTIME features on -icanon mode to reimplement elvis, I experienced
"PANIC: Kernel Page Fault" when I set VTIME other than 0. The system
crashes when it faces with this bug, so be careful. (Note: this bug
appeared when I enabled M_SYSV option in unix.c of elvis 1.6.)

* tin 1.1 PL6 crashes just after the reader post a followup article.
It seems r68 kernel sends SIGCHLD/SIGCLD (signal 18) when a child
process (elvis editor in this case) terminates. How should I handle
SIGCHLD/SIGCLD? I modified tin to SIG_IGN SIGCHLD/SIGCLD and it runs
OK so far.

========

[End of Memorandum]
From: fwp@fwpbbs.UUCP (Frank Pittel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Anyone interested in an intelligent serial board?
Date: 9 Jan 93 17:58:31 GMT

> I downloaded uusecure.tar.Z, but the uucico executable (which I assume
> is the only thing that would relate to this problem) is identical to the
> one already on my system.  (BTW, 'cmp' is missing from my system.  Is it
> not on the distribution?)  I can't *get* Taylor; uucp won't run long
> enough.

MWC shipped a number of early(?) versions of 4.01 without cmp.
You can get it from MWCBBS in the update dir.

Frank
chinet.chi.il.us!fwpbbs!fwp
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim)
Subject: Re: looking for database
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:55:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.165522.19259@rosevax.rosemount.com> grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes:
>stephan@forthdv.rmt.sub.org (Stephan Forth) writes:
>: Hi networld,
>: 
>: is there any relational database system available for Cohernt 4.0 and for
>: what price??
>: 
>

You can always try INGRES (the university version). You can start from the
original UCB sources or from the port to Linux. And it's free.

Zeyd
From: tundra@eskimo.chi.il.us (Tundra Tim Daneliuk)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: perl ported?
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:13:59 GMT
Reply-To: "Coherent operating system" <COHERENT@indycms.bitnet>
Organization: TundraWare

>
> Has perl been ported?? If so, where can I get it (no ftp)??
>
> Thanks Stephan
> --
> ------------
> Stephan Forth                     stephan@forthdv.rmt.sub.org
> Am Schinnergraben 30
> 6500 Mainz 42, Germany            voice: +49 6131 504273
>
Order the GNU Tools package from MWC - perl is included.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        "Tundra" Tim Daneliuk
        PREFERRED: tundra@eskimo.chi.il.us
        OR (Yuk!): eskimo!tundra@clout.chi.il.us
        ALSO:      ...uunet!gargoyle.uchicago.edu!clout!eskimo!tundra
        US SNAIL:  4927 N. Rockwell, Chicago, IL  60625
        MA BELL:   (312) 989-1052

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
From: messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk)
Subject: Making keyboard palatable to a newbie
Organization: Messina Software
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 06:10:34 GMT



In an effort to make Coherent more palatable to a newbie user,
I think I am entering an area where I could get bitten later on,
and so I would like to ask for advice from the more experienced
users:

I have modified the keyboard table for Arrow Keys, Pg?? keys,
Home and End to resemble emacs commands.  Then I mapped them in
.exrc to proper vi commands (regardless of mode).  Now I have a
system where all cursor movement keys on the regular PC
keyboard behave exactly the same way in vi, emacs and on the
command line (with set -o emacs).

Someone tell me - have I gone mad, or is it perfectly alright?
So far it's working great for me, but I would like to know what 
I can expect.  Are any of those keys "expected" in UNIX to be 
mapped certain way?  I am an everyday user, but this is the first
time I am playing full time administrator...

tx,

t.
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Additional Packages for Coherent
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 00:41:49 GMT
Reply-To: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand

magus@drktowr.chi.il.us (Louis Giliberto) writes:

> [...GCC and G++...]
>
> So the answer is this:  they are free unless you get them from MWC.  If
> you get them from MWC, you are paying for distribution, porting, debugging,
> etc.  I bought them because I don't have time to fiddle with them, but
> if I had the time, I would use what I got off the net.

Have you received your copy? When are you going to FTP them to raven? If you
don't have access to FTP you can email them to someone else who does.

							- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent