HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tim@ais.org (Tim Tyler)
Subject: Re: 2 divers die in San Diego
Keywords: diver deaths, San Diego
Organization: UMCC
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 05:53:42 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.022115.12442@chiton.ucsd.edu> zeke@chiton.ucsd.edu (Rob Scott) writes:
>Two San Diego area divers are missing and presumed dead after diving
>in La Jolla on Tuesday.  The divers were both divemasters with significant 
>experience.  Apparently, they were attempting to dive to at least 200 feet 
>for the thrill of it (there are no wrecks or anything much of recreational 
>diving interest below 80 feet in the area that they were diving in), and 
>were diving with air and no special support of any kind.
>
>L.A. Times reported a much different story, however, writing "Scuba
>enthusiasts xxxx and yyyy set out to dive deeper than either had ever been.
>They set their goal at 250 feet, which amateur and expert divers say is
>about 100 feet beyond reason."  The fiancee (also a diver) of one of the men 
>was quoted as saying "I heard their plan, and thought it was insane."  She
>said that last weekend the two had made the deepest dives that they had ever
>made, to about 200 feet, and that they seemed to enjoy the narcosis effects
>and thought that it was "cool" to go that deep.

     Sometimes, the penality for stupidity is death.


-- 
 Tim Tyler   Internet: tim@ais.org  MCI Mail: 442-5735  C$erve: 72571,1005
P.O. Box 443     Packet: KA8VIR @KA8UNZ.#SEMI.MI.USA.NA
Ypsilanti MI
48197-0443                  PADI, USPA, AFCEA, INEOA, P226, VFR700, etc.
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: 6845400@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: There is a better magazine
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 19:26:54 GMT

A magazine that I enjoy much more than SDM is edited by Ken Loyst who just
happens to have been my instructor in 1975.  The magazine is called Discover
Diving, it is not as slick looking but the content is much better. I feel they
give a better or more honest review of equipment and dive locations. It seems
that any location reviewed in SDM has the best diving, the resort is the best,
the fish seen are the best, now I don't think that is not the truth.Yes, I hav
been diving outside of the California, and have some very reliable information
on Belize.

Of course this is my opinion.

Kathy
------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: par@teak18.cray.com (Peter Rigsbee)
Subject: Re: Skin Diver Magazine
Originator: par@teak18
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 27 Jul 92 09:52:18 CDT


In article <1992Jul27.131515.22666@scifi.uucp>, njs@scifi.uucp (Nicholas J. Simi
> Skin Diver Magazine is one of the slimiest, most unethical pieces of
> crap to be found on your magazine retailer's shelf.

I think this is being a bit strong.  It doesn't take very long to realize
what you can get out of SDM.  To me, it is useful as an introduction and
overview to a location, as a source of manufacturer-supplied information
about new equipment (not always easily available at dive stores), as a source
of names and addresses/phone numbers of dive shops and dive resorts, and as
something generally pleasant to read through quickly.  These aren't bad
things in and of themselves.  And as Nick points out, once in a while there
will be something useful.

I don't remember seeing SDM ever presenting themselves as providing objective
and comparative evaluations of equipment or locations (or if they did, I
knew enough to ignore it! ;-)  And I haven't tried to use it as such.  I
realize that some people will, and that is unfortunate.

SDM isn't unique in the magazine/newspaper industry, unfortunately.  I've seen
infomercials in other magazines that use the same techniques as SDM (some
even more blatant -- an explicit one-for-one correspondence between ads and
mentions in the text.)  I've also seen others with higher standards that label
these as "Advertisement" and sometimes use a different type face.

I noticed with some amusement several months ago that SDM had an editorial
in which they were on a high horse about how parts of the scuba industry
were measuring themselves on the wrong things -- for example, number of
divers certified (as opposed to number who take up diving for the long-term).
This prompted me to write them a letter suggesting that they omitted one
category:
        Magazines boasted of advertising pages and numbers of
        subscribers, not whether they were providing objective
        and useful information to their readers.
Not surprisingly, I didn't get any response back.

I've also received a couple of "surveys" from them, asking how much I "liked"
the various articles in issues.  Not whether it was "useful" or "valuable".

I'd like to see SDM improve, but understanding its limitations, am willing
to keep subscribing.  But don't rely on it as your only source of information!

	- Peter Rigsbee

Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: njs@scifi.uucp (Nicholas J. Simicich)
Subject: Re: Leopard Shark school ...
Organization: Nick Simicich, Peekskill, NY
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:00:17 GMT

In article <9207232356.AA11460@shogun.smos.com> joseph@shogun.smos.com (Joseph Crunk) writes:
>
># >	While diving this past weekend at Copper roof in Carmel bay Ca,
># >I had the chance to see 20 or so 4 to 5 foot long Leopard sharks. I
>
># I sure didn't see *20* of 'em, but my buddy and I saw one at Pescadero Pt.,
># not far from there on July 4th.  El Nino again I suspect.
>
>Probably not. We're getting real close to their breeding season. We
>should be see more and more of them up until the end of Aug - beginning
>of Sept. As a matter of fact, there's supposed to be a place at Pt Lobos
>were you can sit and watch them schooling. You might call there and ask
>when and where. Maybe even go dive the spot, if it's not restricted. :-)
>
>They're suposed to be good eating, something along the lines of salmon.
>The problem I have is with the minimun size limit...36 inches. With
>refraction that comes in at 45 inches!...that's bigger than my spear. :-)

Spearfishing sucks.  Just my opinion.




-- 
Nick Simicich - uunet!bywater!scifi!njs - njs@watson.ibm.com
SSI #AOWI 3958, HSA 318, NAUI #14065
Join the movement ---  turn 'to bush' into a verb.
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Lake Ontario claims third diver
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:56:47 GMT
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Jul24.054625.19560@herboid.uucp>, adb@herboid.uucp 
(Anthony DeBoer) writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.220214.3643@bmerh85.bnr.ca> scribler@bnr.ca writes:

>>Bermuda Triangle HA. We've got the dreaded "Lake Ontario Triangle"!!!
>>(The devil must be visiting eh? :-)
       ^^^^^
*YES*, more on this later!

>>So my question is...why are they warning people not to dive there?
>>Has anybody dove there recently now? Or all they all DEAD?!!!!!!

They may well be!

>I've done the Marsh myself, and I'm not posting from the great beyond :-)

How do we *KNOW* this?  Are we to actually believe Anthony?  Has anyone
actually dove with Anthony?  Has anyone actually *SEEN* Anthony?  *HA*, 
I think not!  In keeping with the thread about diving as a religion, 
maybe *HE* is the evil one!  Ready to lure us to our untimely death and
then take our souls (and BC's and tanks and regulators).  Beware this
evil Canadian!  Especially when your tank pressure gauge reads 666psi!

> I hope to be out there myself in a few weeks,

You *SEE*, I was right...  He'll be lying in wait for the unwary diver!

;-)

Stay tuned for my upcomming trip report about a dive on the Monrovia
off Alpena, MI in Lake Huron.

  TED FEUERBACH   Scientific Systems Consultant  Trilogy Consulting, Inc. 
  Lake St. Louis, MO        (314) 537-6603       tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed herein are MY OWN and obviously not
  the opinions of Trilogy, Monsanto or either of my two ex-wives.           
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: jcv26@cas.org (Jon Vander Hill)
Subject: Re: Deep diving and Cave diving
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio, USA
	<JCV26.92Jul20085346@jcv26aws.cas.org>
	<1992Jul21.181207.7288@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:41:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.181207.7288@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson) writes:

   >In article <JCV26.92Jul20085346@jcv26aws.cas.org>
   >jcv26@cas.org (Jon Vander Hill) writes:

   >I recently
   >read an article by Bret Gilliam (in _Scuba Diving_, I think) where
   >he argues that the 130 limit is based originally on US Navy operational
   >considerations, not on physiological criteria.
   >
   I've heard that the sport diving limit was set at 130ft to avoid nitrogen
   narcosis.  "Almost every will be effected by 130fsw."

Another consideration is that to gain an significant bottom time below
130 ft will probably involve staged decompression.  However, with
regard to narcosis and again with reference to Gilliam (either the
article cited or his book on deep diving): the physiological response
to narcosis varies among individuals and even from dive to dive.
There is some anecdotal evidence of individual adaptation to narcosis
if the exposures are frequent and gradual.  Given that, why set an
arbitrary limit?  Why not teach to a standard that emphasizes (1) that
performance is reduced by effects of narcosis and this must be taken
into account during planning and monitored during execution and (2)
the "harder" limits of CNS O2 toxicity?

The AAUS takes an interesting approach by granting ratings based on
depths up to 190 ft.  Just think of the commercial possibilities
(in the PADI sense): each depth level could, in effect,
be a specialty level of instruction (Deep Diver 130, Deep Diver
150, Deep Diver 170, etc)!  More importantly, this approach offers
a gradual, measured exposure to depth in an instructional setting
wherein the individual can evaluate how deep is deep enough for them.

Jon Vander Hill                          PADI DM, NSS-CDS & NACD Full Cave
jon@cas.org
This post represents my views and not necessarily those of
PADI, the NSS-CDS or the NACD.


Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: jcv26@cas.org (Jon Vander Hill)
Subject: Re: truk lagoon trip - How many dives a day!!!
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio, USA
	<l6lutkINNqb6@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> <14gghnINN8cl@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:31:39 GMT

In article <14gghnINN8cl@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> jdale@cats.ucsc.edu (Jonathan Dale) writes:

   It's a little extreme to say they "just plain don't work".  There is a 
   somewhat greater chance of DCS if you dive shallower first and deeper later,
   but I couldn't tell you any numbers (this is what they told me in my
   NAUI Advanced course, but I don't have a reference).

The "deepest dive first" topic has come up before.  My recollection is
that this recommendation allows longer bottom times and has nothing
to do with DCS incidence.  This shouldn't be confused with the "deeper
to shallower" or "reverse profile" rule for individual dives.  It's
a well known deficiency of Haldane models that they permit reverse
profiles, but the DCS incidence for these types of profiles is
markedly higher.  Sorry, no references.

Jon Vander Hill
jon@cas.org
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: njs@scifi.uucp (Nicholas J. Simicich)
Subject: Re: Are ther YMCA dive agencies in Australia ?
Organization: Nick Simicich, Peekskill, NY
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 02:25:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.182553.22362@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson) writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.034511.17598@scifi.uucp> njs@scifi.uucp (Nicholas J. Simicich) writes:
>>
>>... [ comments about a UDT entry deleted ] ...
>>
>>I do a parody of this entry sometimes if I'm holding a camera.  I
>>stand on the dive platform and then fall into the water turning over
>>in mid-air, so that I land on my tank.  I'll typically do this if I
>>have a camera in my hand, and don't want it to impact in the water.  
>>
>>You have to be careful not to hit the side of your head on the water
>>if you do this.  You could rupture an eardrum that way.  A hood will
>>tend to protect your eardrum from impact.
>>
>
>Why not a simple back-roll?

A back roll from a swim step is inconvenient.  Also, I typically lose
my mask strap when I back-roll, so I've got to have a hand at the back
of my head holding it.  Sooner or later I run out of hands.

>The crew on most dive boats will hand a diver's camera to him after he has
>made his entry.  

Yep.  Sometimes it doesn't work.  If there is a lot of surface stuff,
I'll want to get under as soon as possible, so I may not want to get
a camera handed down to me.  I met someone who would drop a line over
the side and hang their camera on it, in about 20' of water, then go
get it once in the water.

>While it's not *always" possible to have your camera handed to you, it does
>sound far preferable to the possibility of ear damage...

You can screw up a giant stride and hit sideways, risking ear damage
in the same way.


-- 
Nick Simicich - uunet!bywater!scifi!njs - njs@watson.ibm.com
SSI #AOWI 3958, HSA 318, NAUI #14065
Join the movement ---  turn 'to bush' into a verb.
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson)
Subject: Re: Diving as a Religion?
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:45:16 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, California

Domini. Domini. Domini.

You're all now divers...

Go forth (fifth? sixth?..) and be fruitful (remember that fruit is good diver
  food, so stay full of it).
-- 
Chris Peterson                                     Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
                                                    Research Computing Services
                                                              Palo Alto, CA USA
                                                   peterson@peterson.hpl.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson)
Subject: Re: Skin Diver Magazine
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:36:21 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, California

IMHO, the *proper* way to read SDM:

1) Find "SCUBA Quiz" monthly column by Dennis Graver and tear it out of the
   magazine.

2) Find "Technifacts" monthly column by Irv Cross and tear it out of the 
   magazine.

3) Throw magazine away.  Keep articles  :-)
-- 
Chris Peterson                                     Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
                                                    Research Computing Services
                                                              Palo Alto, CA USA 
(415) 857-6432                                     peterson@peterson.hpl.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: gardell@ccrs.emr.ca (Felix Gardell)
Subject: UW housings for cameras (NIKON?)
Organization: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing, Ottawa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 03:38:56 GMT

I have been reading this newsgroup with great interest
for some time now, and have found it VERY informative!
Luckily we get few *flames* on the group which is
a tribute to the maturity of this group's readers!

My question relates to camera housings.
I understand that the optics are slightly better on 
a regular SLR in a housing than in a specialized         
underwater camera.  Is this correct?
Certainly it must be better to buy a housing for
a good SLR than to spend thousands of dollars on
underwater camera equipment!  The disadvantage of
a housed camera is probably its limitation to hook a
high-power flash to it (or is this possible?)

I own a NIKON FG with a variety of lenses (50mm, wide angle,
and telephoto), and would like to use this equipment
in a housing. 

Had anyone got any suggestions of the type of equipment 
that is available on the market?  Is there a flash
that could be bought to use on my Nikon?  
If possible, please give me some price indications and
supplier addresses.

Finally, how safe are camera housings?  Do I run a great
risk in destroying my camera equipment?

Please e-mail me to my address or post to the net.

Thanks and happy diving!
 
-- 
Felix Gardell                                      Work:  " A generation ago    
Canada Centre for Remote Sensing    _     , -o     most people finished a 
Energy Mines and Resources Canada    _   _ \<,_    day's work and needed a rest;
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada             -   (*)' (*)   today, they need exercise! " 
===============================================================================


-- 
Felix Gardell                                      Work:  " A generation ago    
Canada Centre for Remote Sensing    _     , -o     most people finished a 
Energy Mines and Resources Canada    _   _ \<,_    day's work and needed a rest;
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada             -   (*)' (*)   today, they need exercise! "
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Skin Diver Magazine
Date: 29 Jul 92 10:25:12 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Jul27.180652.26439@resonex.com>, dan@resonex.com (Dan Kell) writes:
> In line with the current discussion about diving as a religion and SDM maybe
> we should suggest to the manufacturers that they give us their gear to 
> test and we could write honest, unbiased personal opinion articles on 
> their equipment. We could post them here for all of the rest of us to 
> read. Thats what?, thirty or forty pieces of equipment for the regular
> contributers to this group. (Except for Ted, bad Ted! bad Ted! B-) )
                                                                 ^
                                                                 |

At least you finally got a decent mask to replace that old 
stupid looking one that you had 8-).
                                ^
                                |
B-)

  TED FEUERBACH   Scientific Systems Consultant  Trilogy Consulting, Inc. 
  Lake St. Louis, MO        (314) 537-6603       tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed herein are MY OWN and obviously not
  the opinions of Trilogy, Monsanto or either of my two ex-wives.           

Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: mjohnson@zeus.calpoly.edu (Mark S. Johnson)
Subject: Re: VISION trip in Sept
Organization: Mechanical Engrg. Dept., California Poly. State U., SLO
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:39:06 GMT


I just got off the Vision this past Monday after a great two-day trip.
The Vision is a sweet boat and Truth Aquatics is a super organization.
I can't make the September trip but I'll be out on the
Truth/Conception/Vision again soon.

The life we saw on the crossing back to Santa Barbara was
fantastic...3-4 Blue Whales, HUNDREDS of dolphins, many of whom zipped
along in our bow wave, and 3 thirty-foot Basking Sharks. What I found
amazing was that J.D., the Captain, turned the return crossing into a
Whale Watching tour and zigged-zagged around (slowly) trying to get us
a better view of these wonderful creatures...he brought us right up
along side the "Baskers".  This cost him about an hour of extra fuel
at no extra charge to us.

As far as diving, the Truth Aquatics captains put safety first and
then they try to find the best diving sites possible under the
conditions. If weather permits, they will always try to get you out to
San Miguel, even though it is farther away and costs them more fuel.

All the crew members are divers, even the cooks.

Disclaimer: This is an independent plug for Truth Aquatics...I'm just
a satisfied customer. I also have no connection with Dave Waller or
the trip he is organizing.

Safe Diving,
-- 
Mark S. Johnson        mjohnson@stn9.me.calpoly.edu      (129.65.19.9)
From: pyoung@caiman.axion.bt.co.uk (Pete Young)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Info on Hong Kong required
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:02:09 GMT
Reply-To: pyoung@axion.bt.co.uk
Organization: British Telecom Labs
Organisation: BT Laboratories, Martlesham Heath, IPSWICH UK

One of my dive buddies and colleagues is about to spend 3 months working
on secondment in Hong Kong. Lucky swine :-)

Not content with that, he wants to carry on diving. He is an experienced
SAA club diver, verging on Dive Leader (not sure if he's done the exam yet).

If anyone can supply me with contacts for either Dive Shops or Diving Clubs
(SAA, BSAC or NAUI) in Hong Kong I'll be grateful.

Email to me <pyoung@axion.bt.co.uk> and I'll summarise to rec.scuba
if I get enough information to make it worthwhile.

  ____________________________________________________________________
  Pete Young         pyoung@axion.bt.co.uk        Phone +44 473 645054
             BT Labs, Martlesham Heath, IPSWICH IP5 7RE UK
  "Seen on Pavlov's door: Knock. Don't ring bell." - mathew sutherland
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Leopard Shark school spotted art Copper roof in Carmel Ca
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:12:48 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <12355@inews.intel.com> brodesky@td2cad.intel.com (Michael Brodesky) writes:
>
>
>	While diving this past weekend at Copper roof in Carmel bay Ca,
>I had the chance to see 20 or so 4 to 5 foot long Leopard sharks. I

I sure didn't see *20* of 'em, but my buddy and I saw one at Pescadero Pt.,
not far from there on July 4th.  El Nino again I suspect.

Regards, Lee
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: rallan@gun.com (Robb Aley Allan)
Subject: Re: Rebreathers - info/discussion wanted
Reply-To: rallan@gun.com
Organization: Helical Systems, Ltd.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 00:00:02 GMT

Cech Claude G writes
   
   On another note, I'm hearing third-party rumors of a possible algae bloom
   off of Florida?  What's the news, you Florida divers?  What's vis like in the
   keys and heading up the Atlantic coast right now?  And isn't there a lobster
   about to start?  Any special regs?  [;]-)


Haven't seen a thing. Or actually, I can see pretty well, and I don't see algae. Or  
something like that. :-)

-- 
Robb Aley Allan, The Gulfstream Group
220 Sunrise Avenue, Palm Beach, FL 33480
voice: 407/ 832-4013   email: rallan@helical.com
Co-founder/director, Gotham Users of NeXT (GUN)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: adb@herboid.uucp (Anthony DeBoer)
Subject: Re: Rehersal of weight belt ditching
Organization: Linda's Dragon Memorial Society
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:41:23 GMT

Bob <bob@hubcap.clemson.edu> writes:
>>Bruce writes:
>
>>        If you can hold your breath for 30 seconds under water, there is a
>>relatively safe way to practice weight belt ditching.  Start at the surface,
>>take the regulator out of your mouth, and take a breath and hold it.  Dive to
>>the bottom at say 10 to 15 feet, and release your belt there.  You will get a
>>rapid ascent without possibility of embolism, as your lungs were filled at the
>>surface.
>
>You need to add that this is true provided you have not been diving and
>your blood is not already sturated.

Umm, you also need to add that embolism and DCS are two different things. 
Assuming you're not already getting bent, you're not going to ingas or
outgas enough nitrogen in 30 seconds at 15 feet to cause yourself a
problem doing this.
-- 
Anthony DeBoer   NAUI # Z8800, D5482 | Why watch TV, when Netnews provides
adb@herboid.uucp | adb@geac.com      | 100% of your daily requirement for
uunet!geac!herboid!adb               | trivia and meaningless entertainment?
Newsgroups: rec.scuba