HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jle@fc.hp.com
 (Jer/ Eberhard)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Talk about an unusual "field"!
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:49:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: fc.Bxz5IA.qp
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Workstation Kernel, Ft. Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.1 PL6]


> And for god's sake, how thick is the ice?  

I grew up in northern Wisconsin.  After the lakes are frozen over in the
winter, the county road crews would plow a road by plowing the snow off
some of the lakes so we could drive on them.  You would drive down the
boat ramp on one side, across the ice (usually sanded) and up the boat
ramp on the other side.  It would sometimes save 10 miles of driving
around the lake!

Unfortunately, the people from Chicago would come up and ice fish all
winter in their Winnebagos, parking on the ice...  in the spring we
would lose several land-barges through the ice, as they would drive
around the barricades set up for unsafe ice by the road crews!

Consider... 11 inches of ice will support a 60 ton Sherman tank!
Slush might support a boat.  :-)

> #include <std.disclaimer>

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, jle@fc.hp.com, Jer_Eberhard@fc.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard UDL, 3404 East Harmony Road MS-99, Ft Collins, CO  80525-9599
Phone 303 229-2861, FAX 303 229-2838, 1UP10, Incoming 40 44.1N+105 33.0W
Civil Air Patrol, Pikes Peak 218, MSN Check Pilot, CFI Airplane & Glider, N0FZD
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: Seeking aircraft manufacturers [Was: Please help me...]
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 23:40:37 GMT

In article <CSTACY.92Nov16160946@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu> cstacy@ai.mit.edu (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:
>The Aircraft Owners and Pilot's Association (AOPA) publishes a phonebook-like
>document called "AOPA's Aviation USA". 

Christopher failed to mention that the book *is* available to non-members
for a price. If you have a credit card, they can probably send you one
within a few days.

>AOPA is based out of Maryland, and can be reached at (301) 695-2000.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | Keep away from people who try to belittle your
George Patterson -  | ambitions. Small people always do that, but the
                    | really great make you feel that you, too, can
                    | become great.          Samuel Clemens
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: hgp@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (howard.page)
Subject: Re: Talk about an unusual "field"! ( landing on frozen lakes, really)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:31:52 GMT

In article <!kmq_rd@quantum.on.ca>, aboyd@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Boyd) writes:
> In article <1992Nov19.041749.7777@netcom.com> rkaplan@netcom.com 
> (Richard Kaplan) writes:
> >... the "field" is 3000 feet of ice on a plowed lake.
> >
> >My intuitive feeling is that the landing roll for a C-172
> >on ice is unknown and therefore this type of operation
> >should not be attempted without extensive prior experience
> >or an extremely long and wide "field" (neither of which will be 
> >present in this case).  The minimal friction on landing
> >could present problems regarding both length of the
> >landing roll and directional control.
> 
>	.
>	.
>	.

Before attempting to land on a frozen lake, check your insurance!!!
From: mtc@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Mark Cousins)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Visiting Alaska
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:29:18 GMT
Organization: HP General Systems Division

OK.  I didn't feel like spending Thanksgiving by myself sooooo I decided to
go visit my sister.  "What's the big deal?" you say.  The big deal is that
she lives in Anchorage, as in Alaska.

Do you know how long I've fantasized about flying a 185 around Alaska?

Well, I don't have a 185.  So I'm going up there on an MD-80 that belongs to
Alaska Airlines.  But I was hoping that while I'm there I might be able to
ride along with someone and maybe even get some stick time.

I'm arriving in ANC next Wed the 25th and leaving Sunday morning.  I know
that this is short notice but I just decided yesterday to go.

Any pointers that y'all can provide would be much appreciated.

Mark
-- 
Mark Cousins                Hewlett-Packard Co.        mtc@hpsemc.cup.hp.com
HP-UX VAB programs    19055 Pruneridge Ave., MS 46T5
(408) 447-4659             Cupertino, CA  95014          FAX: (408) 447-4364
From: hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Please help me...
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:01:08 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <2409@usna.NAVY.MIL> dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC)) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.153309.12158@nntpserver.chevron.com> hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal) writes:
>!In article <1e9btsINNs9g@topaz.bds.com! ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie) writes:
>!!If you can get a copy of AOPA's Airports USA book, they're all there.
>
>!I've been very happy with Half Price Books for finding back issues of
>!things. In fact, I bought a '92 Jepps Aim/Far that still had the 
>!midyear update card in the back for $6.00. Not bad. Sent in the card too.
>
>David, how about an address and/or telephone number?
>
>Dave Rogers

My apologies -- I should have explained what Half Price Books is...


HPB is a national chain of used book stores. They are often found
close to a university or out in the suburbs of a college town.

They _don't_ do any sort of mail order. 

You will just have to look in your local phone book, or call 
the corporate headquarters at (214) 360-0833.


-- 
David Neal -- hdnea@hou281.chevron.com 

My processes aren't dead! They're only resource impaired!
Computationally challenged!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: sjleonar@IASTATE.EDU (Scott J Leonard)
Subject: Please help me...
Reply-To: sjleonar@IASTATE.EDU (Scott J Leonard)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:14:03 GMT

If anyone out there would take the time to help me out a bit, I would really
appreciate it. 

I'll be writing a paper in a couple of weeks, and I need to contact some
aircraft manufacturers to inquire about their planes.  If anyone know of any
CURRENT addresses that would help out, please email them to me.  I've tried a
few already, and only one has sent info.  All the others had moved, except
Falcon Jet, who kindly told me to basically get lost.

Thanks in advance...

--
scotty				"And if the music stops, then there is only
Scott J. Leonard			the sound of the rain..." 	-Rush
Iowa State University	
email: sjleonar@iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: jbrown@qdeck.com (Jordan Brown)
Subject: Re: aircraft right of way
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:56:58 GMT

scott@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Scott Turner) writes:
>An alternative option, suggested by others on the net in the past, would be
>to move some Center frequencies to 25kHz channels ...

First, let's kick the airline company frequencies off the good frequencies.
I don't have one of the "All the World's Radio Frequencies" books, but the
last time I saw one the airlines had some prime (100 KHz) freqs, and they
of all people should have 25 KHz radios.

Then let's allocate a half dozen or so 25KHz freqs to air-to-air, where
122.75 is the only legal freq available.
From: cstacy@ai.mit.edu (Christopher C. Stacy)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Seeking aircraft manufacturers [Was: Please help me...]
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:09:46
Organization: random
NNTP-Posting-Host: wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: sjleonar@IASTATE.EDU's message of Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:14:03 GMT

The Aircraft Owners and Pilot's Association (AOPA) publishes a phonebook-like
document called "AOPA's Aviation USA". It's a wealth of information for
pilots, including a directory of airports and a collection of notes
describing standard flight procedures and so forth.  You may be interested
in this book because it also has a directory of aircraft and avionics
manufacturers, and a buying guide that compares the features.
The book is published yearly for AOPA members.

AOPA is based out of Maryland, and can be reached at (301) 695-2000.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Subject: Re: Re(2): aircraft right of way
Reply-To: reece@eco.twg.com
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 19:37:36 GMT


In article <1992Nov13.195712.10171@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r) writes:
|>In article <1992Nov13.065820.16646@peck.com> geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
|>>
|>>I suspect the rumor that "ATC people set their radars to ignore 1200
|>>transponder codes" may have to do with the Center controllers, not the
|>>approach controllers.
|>
|>The "rumor" was started by a Newark air traffic controller who was guest
|>speaker at an FAA safety meeting held at Princeton airport shortly after
|>the mode-C veil went up. That was a direct quote, and he was referring
|>to his own practice when manning the low-level radar (that's where all us
|>little guys are out there).

The last time I visited the Baltimore TRACON, the controllers showed us
what they did with all the VFR traffic out there. They commanded the
computer to supress all id and altitude information for all aircraft
squawking 1200, and the symbols changed to little X's. VFR aircraft
still showed up on the scope, but just in a much less cluttered manner.

This really made it easier to see the aircraft they were tracking, but
still allowed the controller to see the VFR aircraft. They could still
call up the detailed display for any particular aircraft at will.

I don't know whether this is the same as what the Newark controller
was talking about, but I suspect it is.

--
Reece R. Pollack
PP-ASEL-IA -- Octopus Flying Club (based GAI)
  The only thing I'm authoritative about
     is my right to offer my opinion.
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Re(2): aircraft right
Date: 14 Nov 92 22:26:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

  > The Newark/Kennedy ATC people set their
  > radars to ignore the 1200 transponder code in
  > this area. They say it "looks like a
  > beehive".

I'm not a controller, but I've spent a lot of time at NY Tracon, and
I've never seen 1200 codes suppressed in any sector.  Yes, it's
possible, but none of the controllers that I know do it, and they
say that it's rarely, if ever, done.

PB> .>That is *very* upsetting to me. Remind me not to fly near the New York
  > .>TCA. Besides, isn't that just slighly illegal, or at least against some
  > .>internal regulation?

If the sector is within the TCA, there's little reason to display 1200
codes, since nobody will be operating (legally) with one.  And,
similarly, there's no reason to suppress 1200 codes, since the number of
1200 codes in the sector will be vanishingly small.

        D/

 * OLX 2.2 * Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
From: alan@metasoft.UUCP (Alan Epstein)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Hypoxia Altitude at Night
Keywords: hypoxia altitude night
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:44:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: metasoft.5076
Organization: Meta Software Corporation, Cambridge MA


I learned in primary training that 10000' in the day and 5000' at
night were maximum altitudes without oxygen to avoid hypoxia.
Assuming a sea level takeoff, are these reasonable numbers and why?

-alan

-----------------------------
Alan Epstein
Meta Software Corp		 Internet:  alan@metasoft.com
Cambridge, MA 02140  USA	      IAP:  ILS 11 BED
-----------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: inglis_p@apollo.HP.COM (Pete Inglis)
Subject: Re: Talk about an unusual "field"!
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:49:22 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

For info on landing on ice or specific info
about Alton Bay N.H. call Bill Grahn ,
president of the Alton Bay Flying Club at
(603) 859-5383
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Talk about an unusual "field"!
Date: 19 Nov 92 18:01:35 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: wiley.ts.stratus.com

In article <1992Nov19.041749.7777@netcom.com>, rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:
> An interesting aviation event is scheduled for February 6, 1993....
> The Cedar Lake, Wisconsin "fly ON."  This is a fly-in event where
> the "field" is 3000 feet of ice on a plowed lake.

(stuff deleted)

> My intuitive feeling is that the landing roll for a C-172
> on ice is unknown and therefore this type of operation
> should not be attempted without extensive prior experience
> or an extremely long and wide "field" (neither of which will be 
> present in this case).  The minimal friction on landing
> could present problems regarding both length of the
> landing roll and directional control.
> 
> Our fellow pilot feels that even though he hasn't done
> this before, he is capable of doing so since (1) "rotational
> friction" will be sufficient to stop the aircraft (2) he is
> proficient at short field technique (3) directional control
> will not be necessary if the approach velocity vector is
> aligned with the landing surface.

I did this last year in a friend's C180.  Assuming the ice is sufficiently
strong, go for it!  It's a blast.  No, you won't get much (any, really) 
braking action, but there's certainly sufficient friction to stop, just
like you'd stop on a paved runway without using brakes.  As long as your 
rudder's effective you'll be able to turn.  But there are a few things to 
watch out for.  You can't do a stationary runup.  You'll start sliding.  So 
plan early.  Also, tight turns, like you'd do to get into a parking space,
will require some power to blast some air over the rudder, and the initial
effect will be that you'll start sliding forwards before turning.  So you'll
really be skidding a bit.  Again, plan in advance and it shouldn't be a 
problem.
-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
From: ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Please help me...
Date: 16 Nov 1992 23:47:08 GMT
Organization: BDS Systems
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.bds.com

If you can get a copy of AOPA's Airports USA book, they're all there.

If you don't have a copy ($24.95 or free if you join AOPA), then let me
know which particular ones you want (it's quite a list).

-Ron
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Please help me...
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:59:45 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <1992Nov17.153309.12158@nntpserver.chevron.com> hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal) writes:
!In article <1e9btsINNs9g@topaz.bds.com! ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie) writes:
!!If you can get a copy of AOPA's Airports USA book, they're all there.

!I've been very happy with Half Price Books for finding back issues of
!things. In fact, I bought a '92 Jepps Aim/Far that still had the 
!midyear update card in the back for $6.00. Not bad. Sent in the card too.

David, how about an address and/or telephone number?

Dave Rogers
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: grunt@ecf.toronto.edu (Marcus van Ierssel)
Subject: Re: Hypoxia Altitude at Night
Keywords: hypoxia altitude night
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 06:05:28 GMT

In article <5076@metasoft.UUCP> alan@metasoft.UUCP (Alan Epstein) writes:
>
>I learned in primary training that 10000' in the day and 5000' at
>night were maximum altitudes without oxygen to avoid hypoxia.
>Assuming a sea level takeoff, are these reasonable numbers and why?
>
>-alan
>
>-----------------------------
>Alan Epstein
>Meta Software Corp		 Internet:  alan@metasoft.com
>Cambridge, MA 02140  USA	      IAP:  ILS 11 BED
>-----------------------------

The reason why the night altitude is lower is because the eyes are
affected by the reduced oxygen levels and at night with low light 
levels this becomes a problem. These numbers are a little conservative,
but everyone is effected differently.

Marcus
.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter)
Subject: Re: Civil Air Patrol/CAP thoughts
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:47:52 GMT

dls@freedom.genrad.com (Diana L. Carlson) writes:

>In article <1eh38kINNf06@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> kamikaze@wargamer.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>In article 1edd3pINNkgh@freedom.genrad.com, dls@freedom.genrad.com (Diana L. Carlson) writes:
>>
>>Since it wasn't mentioned, are there any restrictions for (now let's be PC) male facial hair?

>You can't have a beard when wearing the USAF style uniforms.  A neat mustache
>is ok (I THINK???? Help me out, male CAPers!).  However, you can wear any of
>the other non-USAF uniforms if you have a beard.

Yes, a neat mustache is permitted with the Air Force style uniforms.  It must
be neatly trimmed, and not extend beyond the corners of the mouth.  Walrus
and handlebar styles are RIGHT OUT!!  With the CAP stype uniforms, Cousin It
from the Addams family would fit.
-- 
Roger Ritter N1FZZ (R.Ritter@ma30.bull.com) PP-ASEL, AGI
1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky"
Sheep do not so much fly as plummet!        NH CAP: Profile 49
From: rogersmf@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Mark Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Place to eat near Maryland or Del
Date: 21 Nov 92 17:00:44 GMT
Organization: Cimtek America

>In article <stellabo.722030534@phage.cshl.org> stellabo@phage.cshl.org (Fred Stellabotte in Computer Center - CSHL) writes:
>>I am planning a flight south from NY to Maryland or
>>Del. .. This Sunday .. Just for lunch ..
>>
>>Can anyone suggest a Airport with a restrant that has
>>good seafood ..??
>>
>>

Someone mentioned Wilmington, DE.  Just for your information, there is an
Air Transport Command (mid-to-high prices with fluctuating quality - good
chili, though) right on the airport.  The seafood restaurant across the
street is called the Lynnhaven Inn and it is good.

The real treat, though (IMO) is Tribeni, which is a hike (~.7 mi) up the
road (you may want ground transportation), but it's very good, reasonably
priced East Indian fare.  I go there whenever I have a desire to make a
complete pig of myself  :-} 


-- 

Mark Rogers, PP-G (rogersmf@eplrx7.es.dupont.com)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ddavis@gain.com (David P. Davis)
Subject: Re: weather
Organization: Gain Technology, Inc.
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 00:34:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.210345.4624@bradley.bradley.edu>, maverick@buhub.bradley.edu (Darin Petersen) writes:
|> I heard about a weather service (not DUAT) available through internet that
|> allow you to access forecasts of several days.  Kind of like the local
|> forecast from the weather channel.  Does anyone know anything about this?
|> 
|>  
|> --
|>             __|__          Darin Petersen - PP-ASEL
|>      ________(*)________  Maverick@buhub.bradley.edu
|>             o/ \o    
|>             
|>               

-- 

Telnet downwind.sprl.umich.edu 3000

I find the service useful, but limited in detail (because of the limited
weather reporting stations for my area).

						David Davis

--
David P. Davis
Gain Technology Inc.
Palo Alto, CA
ddavis@gain.com

Standard Disclaimer:

	The above does not represent the views and/or opinions of
	Sybase Inc. or Gain Technology Inc.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: cap@selway.umt.edu (Charles A. Smith)
Subject: aerial snooping, revisited
Keywords: lawyer bashing
Organization: University of Montana
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:48:06 GMT

A man accused of growing several thousand marijuana plants is trying
to get off the hook by saying that his rights to privacy were violated
in part by aerial surveillance.


The story goes like this: John VanDamme had several greenhouses of grass
tucked away in a forested area near Missoula.  He had a tall cyclone fence
around the greenhouses, and the fence had lathe in it, so it was hard to
see thru.  

Agents were tipped to the scam, and made an overflight of the area looking
for evidence.  They saw the greenhouses, and then went in by foot, and peeked
thru the fence.  After peeking, the agents went to get a search warrant, and
then raided the fenced area, where they found lots of illegal stuff.

The lawyer for the accused is claiming that the over-flights were violations
of VanDamme's 4th Ammendment rights to privacy
because "VanDamme's residence would not be viewed by aircraft
following routine flight patterns."  Therefore VanDamme "had developed
a reasonable expectation of privacy."

What nonsense!  Another brain-dead lawyer, with a frivolous argument, wasting
taxpayer money.  Oh, well.

BTW, did you all see the assessment of our president-elect with respect to
his stance on tort reform?  Clinton is expected to be anti-reform, because
he is a lawyer himself, and, well, 'nuff said.

Cap
-- 
Cap Smith                 Assistant Prof. of MIS           
cap@selway.umt.edu        University of Montana
From: seymour@stein.u.washington.edu (Richard Seymour)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: HangAr, durnit, HANGAR!!
Keywords: Stearman
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:33:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov18.223307.3141
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Nov18.210910.13424@umbc3.umbc.edu> robie@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. William Robie; POSI (GRAD)) writes:

>You don't HANG an airplane in a HANGAR.

...actually, you do (or can)... there are a few companies which sell
  suspension systems to allow stacking multiple aircraft in a single
  hangar.  They're cable-based, though, so they're not called "hangers".
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: ncrwater@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Latala - ICR)
Subject: strength of helicopter rotor
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:10:13 GMT

The other night we saw the movie 'The Last Boy Scout'. There's a scene in
it where two people are fighting at the top of a light standard at a football
stadium. Buzzing around the light standard is a helicopter.

During the fight somebody gets thrown off the light standard. They descend
only to come into contact with the rotor disc of the helicopter which is 
hovering at a lower altitude.

In the movie they quickly cut to the inside of the helicopter where a red
spray hits the windshield as the helicopter keeps flying.

I expect that in real life the person wouldn't make it, just like in the movie.
But would the helicopter survive? I would have thought that it would loose a
blade in the process...
-- 
ncrwater@uwaterloo,ca