HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: allen%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: South American Explorer's Club
Date: 10 Apr 92 09:28:16 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: na

A couple of people, myself included have mentioned the SAEC on several
occasions.  There are in the process of moving from Denver to Ithaca
NY.  It is supposable effective April 1.  Here is the new address:

SAEC

126 Indian Creek Rd.

Ithaca, NY 14850

1-800-274-0568


Hope this helps those who are traveling that way.

Allen


From: ddj@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Josephson)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 05:33:36 GMT
Subject: Mt. Hood - Climbing Info Request
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

I am looking for some information about climbing Mount Hood in Oregon.  I will
be there in late April and will be ascending from Timberline Lodge via the
South Side route (I think).  I will be traveling with 5 other folks in three
rope teams.  Our leader has climbed extensively in the Cascades.  I have
climbed in the Rockies and the Tetons, but I don't have any experience in
the Cascades (I do have a fair amount of snow climbing experience from climbing
in the Rockies).  I found one book (A Climbing Guide to Oregon, by N. Dodge)
which has some info about the climb, but I would like to find some others, if
anyone has any suggestions.

I have a couple of specific questions also:

Are crampons a necessity at this time of year?  I have Sherpa Snowshoes which
have the 'fanged' Tucker bindings, and was wondering if I could use those.
This would save me from having to borrow/rent crampons.

What are the snow and weather conditions typically like at the end of April?

Is Jack Nicholson still running around up there :^) ? 

General suggestions would also be appreciated.  Thanks in advance for your help!

Doug Josephson  ddj@fc.hp.com  Fort Collins, CO
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: climb ratings
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:58:07 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

>(Eugene - maybe a FAQ for this?)

I saw the incomplete table which was posted.  I'll gladily take a complete
table (which goes down to 1, I, and Easy) if some one keys in the thing,
and I can set it up.  You should know that with an incomplete table, some
one is going to ask for the lower sections.

Unfortunately, I'm not certain how I would set the frequency on a rating
post.  Once a month might be too much.  This is about
the fourth time it has been raised in discussion.  Maybe quarterly.

Remember FAQs are experimental.

I still have not installed the small portions I have worked on already.
R.c. is still a pretty low traffic newsgroup, and an FAQ can be more
noise than signal.  R.backcountry on the other hand: you'd be amazed
the number of people who have recently asked for the giardia and poison
oak posts via email..... {"urgent" in their words}.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
This is the Usenet: do you expect anything other than gross generalizations?
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: AWaddington@acorn.co.uk (Andy Waddington)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Figure-eight vs Tubers
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:24:18 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

Apropos of the Figure-8 v Tuber debate, I am led to believe that
figure-8's are much better in bar fights, especially if you have
the chunky, heavy and very hard-wearing phosphor-bronze ones which
used to be available from Rocksport in Wells, Somerset, England.

o o
 v      Andy.
\_/
From: leaver@prg.ox.ac.uk (Andrew Leaver)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Europe bound => The Matterhorn
Date: 8 Apr 92 10:21:32 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Oxford University Computing Laboratory, UK

In article <16932@sophia.inria.fr>, luong@sophia.inria.fr writes:
>(Andy Waddington) writes ... 
>|>                                                   take the first Klein
>|> Matterhorn cable car (to 3800m) of the morning and saunter up the Breithorn
>
>I don't think it helps a lot. To my experience, acclimatisation is proportional
>to the time you stay in altitude. It takes a couple of hours to get to the 
>Breithorn, which has the reputation of beeing the easiest 4000 in the Alps.
>That's not enought. Even doing Mont-Blanc-du-Tacul from Chamonix to acclimatise
>for Mont-Blanc seems useless to me.

I support Andy on this. Last summer I was climbing in the Chamonix valley
for a few weeks, mainly at altitudes of 3900m and below (I prefer the
Argentiere end of the Mt. Blanc range as it's sooo much quieter - but still
busy compared to almost everywhere else, of course!). Near the end we
decided Mt. Blanc itself had to be done, just to say we had been there

By this time I was reasonably acclimatised but hadn't been over 4000m, so
we did Tacul one day and then a traverse of Mt. Blanc the next. On the
summit of Tacul we both felt a little queasy due to the altitude. The day
after, both of us felt fine on the summit of Mt. Blanc - no queasiness;
we were able to enjoy the chocolate cake we'd brought up for the occasion!
So I certainly think that going over 4000m (12,000ft) is very helpful,
even if only for a day. I felt much better for it - though no doubt the
fact that we slept at 3500m that night helped too.

>Tuan.

Andrew
--
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

In rec.climbing, c_s06253@stat.appstate.edu writes:

> 
> HEY... WHAT IS ALL THIS CRAP MORT ELISON IS TALKING ABOUT?  CAN'T YOU
> FIND ENOUGH GOOD ROCK OUT THERE IN COLORADO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHIP?  I
>                                                   ZAPPA

It was a satire meant to burn the "chippies".  I don't chip!

Mort

Xref: sparky rec.climbing:1318 rec.backcountry:3266 alt.binaries.pictures:1883 alt.binaries.pictures.d:2419 alt.binaries.pictures.misc:4657
From: mercer@ncs.dnd.ca (David Mercer)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry,alt.binaries.pictures,alt.binaries.pictures.d,alt.binaries.pictures.misc,alt.binaries.misc.d
Subject: GIFs of Climbers
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:46:15 GMT
Organization: DND, Ottawa, CANADA

I think this has been asked before and if I am right I'm sorry.

I would like to get some gifs of rock climbers, ice climbers, mountaineers,etc.
If somebody could EMail me something that fits any of these descriptions or 
post it in an ABP area I would be in there debt for ever.

Thanks
Dave

------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Dave Mercer                 | mercer@ncs.dnd.ca                     |
|  Computer and Electrical     | rmcmath!rmcece!mercer@qucis.queensu.ca|
|  Engineering                 |---------------------------------------|
|  Royal Military College of Canada                                    |
|  Kingston, Ontario, Canada                                           |
|  K7K 5L0                                                             |
|  (613)541-6028                                                       |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: Sophomore, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 02:08:02 -0400 
From: "Christopher L. Morrow" <cm43+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Directions to Great Falls 

Some one from UVA posted for dierctions, unfortunately the original post
didnt go through, anyway, Reid Whitlock from UVA, here are those
instructions, sorry that it's not in time, but maybe it will help others
and you an your next trip.  Sorry if this is a bit late, but the turn
for the Great Falls area is
well marked, turn off route 7(right turn coming from reston area) then
about two-five miles down there will be a traffic light, (after passing
througfh area with shopping center) and turn left at this light, I think
that there is a sign before the turn that indicates the park is at the
next light.  PArk in the pareking lot and walk down river on the trail
that runs along the top of the cliffs, after passing over the little
wooden bridge (fairly new, crosses a ravine that might have a small
stream at the bottom) the climbing area is just after this.  There are
many nice cliffs that I rappel, but have seen many climbers on.  Hope
this helps, are you goign to be in the Northern VA area over the summer?
 I am interested in doind some climbing and need some one to help me
learn.
--Chris
school: x4545
Home: 703-264-0058
cm43@andrew.cmu.edu


--Chris
school: x4545
Home: 703-264-0058
cm43@andrew.cmu.edu
From: rytz@disuns2.epfl.ch (Bernard Rytz)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: RE: climb ratings
Date: 5 Apr 92 11:23:59 GMT
Reply-To: rytz@disuns2.epfl.ch (Bernard Rytz)
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne


Hello, 

I got the following table out of a climbing guidebook
by the Swiss Alpine Club (SAC) (1991) :

UIAA	F	USA	G.B	AUS	
===================================
I  	1	5.2	mod.	
II	2	5.3	diff.	11
III     3    	5.4	v.diff 	12
IV	4	5.5	4a	12-13
V-	5  	5.6	4b	13
V	5	5.7	4b-4c	14-15
V+	5-5+	5.7-5.8	4c    	15
VI-	5+	5.8-5.9	5a	16
VI	5+-6a	5.9	5a-5b	17-18
VI+	6a-6a+	5.10a	5b	19
VII-	6b	5.10b	5c	20
VII	6b+	5.10c-d	5c	21
VII+	6c	5.11a	5c-6a	22
VIII-	6c+-7a	5.11b   6a      23-24
VIII    7a+     5.11c-d 6a-6b   25
VIII+   7b      5.12a   6b      26
IX-	7c	5.12c   6b	27
IX	7c+	5.12d   6c	28
IX+	8a	5.13b   6c	29
X-	8a+	5.13c 	7a	30
X	8b	5.13d	7a	31-32
X+	8c	5.14a	7b	33

Here (in Switzerland) most sport climbing routes are
rated with the French system, while the SAC is trying to 
push the UIAA grades. 
For alpine climbs (at my level at least:-()
there is no difference between these 2 scales.
The overall rating for an alpine route is expressed by
F (easy), PD, AD, D (difficult), TD, ED (extremely difficult),
taking into account the most difficult passage(s), length, 
altitude, exposure etc.
E.g. If a route contains a (V) passage its probably at least 
rated TD.


Benu rytz@eldi.epfl.ch
(will I ever get into the second half of this table ?)
From: luong@naxos.inria.fr (Quang-Tuan Luong)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Acclimatisation (wsa Re: Europe bound => The Matterhorn)
Date: 15 Apr 92 09:11:49 GMT
Reply-To: luong@sophia.inria.fr
Distribution: rec
Organization: Inria Sofia Antipolis

In article <3275@inca.comlab.ox.ac.uk>, leaver@prg.ox.ac.uk (Andrew Leaver) writes:

|> >>Do you think seriously there is any difference between 3900m and 4200m ?
|> >

|> I don't think it's just that the higher you go, the harder it is to
|> go higher. I have found that the 4000m mark is for many people a point
|> below which they feel fine, but above which (when unacclimatised) they
|> feel bad.

I agree entirely, although I don't know exactely where the mark is between
4000m and 4500m !
 I have undertaken, sometimes sucessfully, climbs such as 
Tacul (4200m), Les Courtes (3900m) and Les Droites (4000m) without any
acclimatisation, and I will do it again, but I have never tried a route to
Mont-Blanc (4800m) without a serious acclimatisation, and I have noticed
that when I climbed it two times in a period of one mounth, the second was
significantly easier.

But it doesn't mean that you are less acclimatised if you go only
to 3900m instead of 4200m !

|> Andrew
|> --

Tuan.
From: luong@naxos.inria.fr (Quang-Tuan Luong)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Acclimatisation (wsa Re: Europe bound => The Matterhorn)
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:02:00 GMT
Reply-To: luong@sophia.inria.fr
Distribution: rec
Organization: Inria Sofia Antipolis

In article <3259@inca.comlab.ox.ac.uk>, leaver@prg.ox.ac.uk (Andrew Leaver) writes:

|> > That's not enought. Even doing Mont-Blanc-du-Tacul from Chamonix 
|> > to acclimatise for Mont-Blanc seems useless to me.
|> 
|> I support Andy on this. Last summer I was climbing in the Chamonix valley
|> for a few weeks, mainly at altitudes of 3900m and below 

The difference between 3900m and 4000m, even 4200, from an acclimatisation
point of view, is only psychological. 

|>                                                        Near the end we
|> decided Mt. Blanc itself had to be done, just to say we had been there
|> 

I approve. It is the Summit. However it is also very fine routes, surely
amongst the finest in the Alps.

|> By this time I was reasonably acclimatised 

You said it.

|>                                        but hadn't been over 4000m,

Do you think seriously there is any difference between 3900m and 4200m ?

|> we did Tacul one day and then a traverse of Mt. Blanc the next. On the
|> summit of Tacul we both felt a little queasy due to the altitude. The day
|> after, both of us felt fine on the summit of Mt. Blanc - no queasiness;
|> we were able to enjoy the chocolate cake we'd brought up for the occasion!
|> So I certainly think that going over 4000m (12,000ft) is very helpful,
|> even if only for a day. I felt much better for it - though no doubt the
|> fact that we slept at 3500m that night helped too.

That's great that you report the entire story to support your claim as I
think it supports mainly mine. The facts that:
 * you climbed for a few weeks before, and up to 3900m (Courtes, or Aig.
 d'Argentiere, I suppose. There is more than 1000m to climb, so it is a 
 good training).
 * you slept at 3500m
suffices largely to explains you felt fine on Mt. Blanc. Your climb on the
Tacul was an extra, which seems to have been psychologically important for
you (and hence important for your sucess at Mt-Blanc, I acknowledge), but
I think it didn't really count. Your story would have supported your claim
only if you went to Tacul from Paris for instance, did it in the morning,
get down and sleep in Chamonix, and then do Mt-Blanc the day after, but you
were wise enough not to attempt it.

|> 
|> Andrew

Tuan.
From: davidd@noaapmel.gov (David Doll)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: looking for magazine w/rope tests in it
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:14:09 GMT
Organization: NOAA, Sand Point Way, Seattle, WA



Hello, I've looked through my stuff and several of my friends, but I
can't seem to find the magazine (Climbing, Rock&Ice, Backpacker?) that
has the tests of climbing ropes. It seems like it was just last
summer/fall...? Before I spend $$$, I'd like to look through it. Could
any kind person tell me which issue it is...perhaps even fax copies to
me...Thanks very much for the help.

David


--
David Doll              |  #include <std.disclaimer> Standard disclaimers 
                        |  apply here...only my opinion,not my employer, etc.
NOAA/PMEL/OCRD          |  
7600 Sand Point Way NE  | --------------------------------------------------
Seattle, WA 98115-0070  |
voice:(206) 526-6862    |  C++: The language where only friends can access
fax:  (206) 526-6744    |  your private members.   
davidd@noaapmel.gov     |
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: climbing in japan?
Date: 16 Apr 92 10:32:25 MDT
Keywords: japan
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

mvanwouw@fraser.sfu.ca (Mark Van Wouw) writes:

>Japan has alot of rock.  They have a range they call the 
>Japanese Alps, but I haven't been there.

I believe the Alps there are refered to as the Japan Alps.  But I
could be wrong, I remember reading an article in Mountian sometime ago
where they us they country name rather than the nationality name.  The
only reason I remember this is because the article made a distinct
point about it.

Example:

French, Swiss, German Alps vs Japan Alps

(nationality)		   .. (country)


Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Ethics are bit a like an erection, no matter how well intended they are prone
 to sudden deflation"
 
        Dougal Haston - refering to climbing ethics.
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: clipper city gym--closed (temporarily)
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:17:40 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

Sorry for this going everywhere, I don't know how to limit it to the
mid-atlantic region.  

My belay slave and I tried to visit Clipper City Rock Gym Saturday
(after climbing on rocks--what a concept).  There was a sign saying
something about sprinklers and city of Baltimore and that it was
closed temporarily.  There was also a phone number if anyone is
interested (although I don't have it with me now).

jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
Jim Klavetter
Astronomy
UMD
College Park, MD  20742
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: mvanwouw@fraser.sfu.ca (Mark Van Wouw)
Subject: Re: climbing in japan?
Keywords: japan
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:54:56 GMT

esenther@sparc59.hri.com (Alan Esenther) writes:

>does anyone know what rock-climbing opportunities japan
>has to offer?  does the sport even exist out there?

The sport certainly exists.  I suppose the "where" depends on where you
will be.  Japan has alot of rock.  They have a range they call the 
Japanese Alps, but I haven't been there.  I lived in Hiroshima for one
year, and found a place to climb about 50km from the city.  My guess is
that the best thing to do is what I did...go to an outdoor shop and 
ask about your area.  Make sure you make it clear that you are interested
in climbing and not hiking (which is not to say that there is anything
wrong with hiking, but the translation between Japanese and English
is a little lacking in the differentiation).

Can't think of anything else.  If you want more details about "nihon no
yama nobori" or anything else for that matter, feel free to email me!

Mark van Wouw
vanwouw@sfu.ca

Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.skiing
From: heff@apollo.HP.COM (Jeffery Oesterle)
Subject: Wrist problems
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:18:16 GMT


For a few months now, I've had variable wrist pain.  My left 
is worse (I'm a rightie), but both bug me.  I don't think the 
problem has anything to do with CTS - symptoms are different.
I can roll my wrist and create popping noises - on demand.  It's
not usually painful to do so.  Pain comes in exerting pressure
(e.g. lifting or pulling) at wierd angles, sometimes at normal angles.

It's much worse after a weekend of skiing - for a while I was 
pole planting way too hard.  I eased up a bit, but the problem 
remains.  I've taken to taping my wrists while skiing, climbing,
or weightlifting; it seems to help, but that may be psychosomatic.
I tried one of those wrist-cushion things for my keyboard, but it only
seemed to make the problem worse. 

I bought one of those heavy-duty Ace-bandage-type velcro wrist supporters,
but does anybody have longer-term advice?  I've only been skiing/climbing/
generally abusing my wrists for a couple of years now, and they're 
already fading fast.  aargh.  Not skiing, not climbing, and not lifting
does seem to help the problem quite a bit, but that general option falls
VERY low on the desirability scale.

I tried one of those wrist-cushion things for my keyboard, but it only
seemed to make the problem worse. 


-- 
------
Jeff Oesterle

==============
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens,
nor should they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under God."
					George Bush
<choke> <cough> Say WHAT?!?!?!
==============

(Disclaim, disclaim, disclaim.)
------
From: merrill@scivax.stsci.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: clipper city gym--closed (temporarily)
Summary: sprinklers  and governments bull
Keywords: wall
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:37:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute

> My belay slave and I tried to visit Clipper City Rock Gym Saturday
> (after climbing on rocks--what a concept).  There was a sign saying
> something about sprinklers and city of Baltimore and that it was
> closed temporarily.  There was also a phone number if anyone is
> interested (although I don't have it with me now).
> 
On Friday morning the Baltomore City fire marshal decided to pay a
visit to all of the businesses in the industrial park where Clipper 
City is located.  Most of them were shutdown along with Clipper City!
The problem is that they do not have a working sprinkler system.  The
owner had already planned to fix it.  

I was able to crawl under the garage door and go up and talk to Jim 
Ellis.  He was pissed!!!!!!  I called this morning and
they said that the problems should hopefully be cleared up in the
next day or two.  I hope they are right!  By the way the cave looks
awesome!  The wall builder was just finishing up on it when I was there.

This is another example of how the the various government agencies in
Maryland all work together to attract and keep new business.(heavy sarcasm)
Jim got his occupancy permit last September and this is the first time
the place was inspected.  If this was October, their response might be called
reasonble.  But this is 6 months later.  So now they risk running a bunch 
of places out of business.  Not very smart.

Clark B. Merrill 
Space Telescope Science Institute
Baltimore, Maryland
merrill@stsci.edu
From: "joseph kurucz" <joseph.kurucz@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: climbing in toronto
Date: 16 Apr 92 08:14:54 EST
Reply-To: "joseph kurucz" <joseph.kurucz@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

Morris Manolson wrote to all:

MFM> I am moving to Toronto fairly soon. Does anybody know if there is 
MFM> any climbing around the Toronto  area?  Any climbing-clubs?

There are a few climbing places I can tell you about. A lot of climbing 
around Toronto is done on the Niagra Escarpment. Just west of Toronto is a 
place called Rattlesnake Point. (Rattlesnake gets pretty crowded, 
however.) There are other good cliffs at Kelso, Mount Nemo and Buffalo 
Crag.

There are also cliffs near Collingwood (Devil's Glen) and in Beaver Valley 
(Kolapore Crag and Kimberly Rock). And there are some really hard routes 
on the Bruce Peninsula particularly around Lions Head.

East of Toronto, near Kingston, is Bon Echo Provincial Park. There is a 
300 foot Granite cliff here that rises right out of Mazinaw Lake. You need 
a boat to access the cliff.

There is a climbing guide floating around. Its called Climbing in Southern 
Ontario ed. James Mark. A Guide book to Bon Echo is also available (new 
edition published last year!)

In Toronto there is a climbing gym. It is called Joe Rockheads (416) 
538-7670. It is located at 58 Wade Avenue Unit 11.

There are at least two climbing clubs: ORCA (Ontario Rock Climbers 
Association) and The Alpine Club of Canada Toronto Section. ORCA spends 
most of its time certifying climbing instructors. The ACC organises trips. 
For example, the ACC holds one day climbing outings every other weekend in 
the Spring. If you are around April 25 join us at Mt. Nemo - south end, 
May 8: Metcalf, May 23: Mt. Nemo - north end, June 7: Kelso, June 20: Nt. 
Nemo - Centre. The ACC also has a boat and a cabin at Bon Echo. Membership 
is $18.00/year and Hut fees are $7.00/day. The ACC boat will pick you up, 
take you to the cabin and take you to the cliff. Not a bad deal for $7.00. 
The ACC also plans trips to the Adirondacks, and for the more financially 
solvent the Yukon.

Warning: Access is becoming a real problem in Hogtown. There are a lot of 
cliffs that are closed to climbing and landowners aren't to keen on seeing 
climbers dangling on top ropes. Technically, climbing is banned in Ontario 
Provincial Parks. 

If you have any questions drop me a line.
Joe

---
 * Freddie 1.1 * "God wasn't a bad novelist, but He was a realist."
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.climbing