HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: reddy@mips.com (T.S. Reddy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Science and Muslims: some thoughts.
Date: 16 Apr 1992 01:10:57 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Sunnyvale, California
NNTP-Posting-Host: dish.mips.com

In article <2393@news.duke.edu> shafqat@neuro.duke.edu (Saad Shafqat) writes:
>
>
>First of all, many thanks to Khalid Shahzad for initiating this thread, 
>and to all participants for offering interesting comments.  
>
>The most crucial requirement for success in science is not Islam but
>prosperity.  Scienctific success has come in the absence of Islam but never
>in the absence of prosperity.  

      Actually, science has been used more in the search for prosperity, at
least since the Middle Ages. It was the practical application of scientific
discoveries (e.g. in navigational aids, in mechanizing towards more 
production etc.) that gave a boost to science. I would agree with you that
classical science (Greek mainly) and science during the golden age of 
Islam (when it's application was not seen as a threat to the religious
heirarchy) was done during an age of relative prosperity. 

>Finally, science is science.  It is not Islamic, it is not Christian, nor
>Jewish nor Hindu nor Shinto nor what-have-you.  To me the term "Islamic
>science" means no more than science done by muslims.  But it is a term
>best done away with because it suggests muslim arrogance, as though Islam
>has a monopoly on some or all scientific truths.  We are muslims and we
>want to do good science.  Our scientific truths are the same as Islamic
>truths but we may not always recognize them as such, or recognize them
>wrongly.  
>

     Very eloquently put. I have a chart of the electromagnetic spectrum
and it's various facets in front of my table, and I keep imaginging that
it is the only true religion in the world (in a literal and absolute
sense)  because the statements on it are valid anywhere in the known 
universe :-).

>Saad Shafqat.
>
>
>
>
>-- 


-- 
T.S.Reddy (e-mail: reddy@mips.com)
From: fkhurshe@ws38.unccvax.uncc.edu (Farhan Khursheed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: RE: Did this happen to you too
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:05:07 GMT
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte

>On a flight from Istanbul to New York, I had my (Pakistani) passport 
>confiscated by the (Turkish) airline, apparently under advice from
>US Immigration.  This also happened to the other four Pakistani >passports
>on that flight.  Our passports were not recovered until just before
>the immigration counter at JFK.  Nobody explained why this happened, so
>it did cause some anxiety.  I was just wondering if this has also >happened
>to other Pakistanis and also why it happens at all.

Yes it also happened to me and fellow passengers when we were flying to New York and our Passports were returned just before the immigration counter in JFk. What they told us was as the plane was due to stop in France they did not wanted any one to get off there and dissapear. That may be true but I for one did not beleive it. Any it caused extreme anxiety to every passenger
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza)
Subject: Re: Sher aur Ahmek
Organization: Carleton University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 03:38:29 GMT

memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon) writes:

>From: mausoof@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
>Subject: "Sher Aur Ahmak", comments wanted


>	 >I have just gone through the article on Akhtar Hameed Khan and his
>>nursery rhyme "Ahmak aur Sher". Personally I think it is very sad that we are
>>treating a eminent humanitarian like this. I might bebiased as I have met him
>>once, but i would like to hear what my fellow netters think about this issue.
>>Do you think he is a victim of the muslim clergy, how far is the intrepetation
>>of the rhyme correct. To me it makes no sense, if it does to anyone I would
>>like to hear about it. As far as the section 295c is concerned, I think that it
>>should be more explicit in nature and should not try to cover the whole sphere
>>of Islam.

>Whereas Salman Rushdie clearly names the prophets' wives before he associates
>derogatory names to them, the basis of the objection that the right wing
>politician made is upto his interpretation. One should be questioning his
>intentions and logic when he concludes that the lion is Ali and Ahmek, well
>you get the picture I hope. I am ashamed to associate the word with the
>prohet's name. So my opinion is: why don't we hang the politician who went
>public with his interpretation of the poem.

>	>Please be reasonable in your remarks. I am not trying to invoke any
>>flames. I would definately like to hear what the educated future of our country
>>thinks about such prehistoric laws.                                         

>                        		>Saqib Mausoof
>>A woman is a woman
>>but a good cigar is a smoke.
>			
>>* A woman is a w 


>If you take my advice, get rid of the signature so that the remarks you
>get are reasonable. I'll be interested to know what others think about this
>issue as well. The issue about the poem not the signature, that is.



>Naveed

assalam alaikum

Mausoof key ser per jab sandalain parain gi tou hosh Aaega, charoun
taraf dhuan he dhuan hoga.

This is an egg vs chicken debate.  politician may be fitfat non-matriculate
and mausoof shair must have been reading postings on this net and taking
them seriously.  

If the politician cannot bring the proof of his
accusation and gets away with it then it may set a very dangerous precedent
in Pak. politics, on the other hand lets see if the shair can defend
his poem? what! where is the poem, please can someone first post the
poem for review! before i go on any further.

	Wo poem Sari Larai Mein Jis Ka Zikr Na Tha
	Wo poem Humein (already) Nagavar Guzri Hay

Murad Mirza.
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Da'wah to American Indians
Date: 15 Apr 1992 12:59:30 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Apr15.141930.17803@ucunix.san.uc.edu> bhatnagr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Raj Bhatnagar) writes:
:In article <1992Apr14.112225.30015@davidsys.com: khan@davidsys.com writes:
:
:
:
::Does anyone notice that the range of mountains
::on the eastern US is named 'Allegheny', 
::sounds like 'Allah Ghani'.
:
:And also, the names
:
:Allah-bama    state
:Allah-ska     state
:Alla-in-town  city in PA
:Allah-ka-tarz island,ex-prison (SF area)
:Allah-made-a  city (SF area)
:Alla-abu-kar-ke city

You are close but not close enough. All the "Al" in the
above names are due to the definite article "Al-" in
Arabic not unlike (probably) "Allah" which is "AL-illah"
                                              The God

How the Arabic influence? Just remember that
Spain was under the Muslim rule for 500+ years.
And these were under the spanish influence.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: rashid@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Rashid Hakeem)
Subject: sorry, I made a mistake
Keywords: on Eid day
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 22:17:59 GMT

Dear muslim brothers and sisters,    Assalam o alaikum
         In my last post on Eid greeting, I addressed as Dear Pakistani,
 which is extremely foolish of me as Eid is not only for certain region. It
 is the universal celebration by all muslims of the world. So instead of
 making it regional, I should have said 'Dear muslim brothers and sisters'.
 Please accept my apologies.
                                      Rashid Hakeem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor)
Subject: Re: Qadiani
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 04:13:42 GMT

In <ZAFAR.92Apr16144548@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu> zafar@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Syed Z. Kazmi) writes:

>Dearest Noor
>You are setting the example of "Ulta chor Kotwaal ko daantey".
>Whenever a claim(of any sort) is made by a person, it is upto him to
>prove his claim right, not on the other people to prove the person
>wrong. 
>So, it is not our duty to prove that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was not a
>prophet. It is your responsibility to prove him the prophet of God.
>If you are unable to prove that then either you are wrong or incapable
>of. In both the cases we are not the one to be blamed.
>May God show us both the way to his will.
>ZAFAR

Dear Sir,
You caught the wrong letter of mine and I guess you have just started to
scan letter on this topic. The debate is now many months old (on net) and
if you want to know the reason why I wrote this letter, please read
"open letter to all debators"----it should still be on the net.

Enjoy,

Nasir Ahmed Noor
umnoor@ccu.uamanitoba.ca
From: mausoof@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Zero
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:35:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: kuhub.1992Apr10.133525.39213
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Q. What is the most important contribution to Science by the people of Indian
subcontinent?


A. Nothing.
					Saqib Mausoof
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza)
Subject: Re: Brit. Elections, BBC, WShakespeare
Keywords: elections
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 02:30:11 GMT

mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza) writes:

>assalam alaikum

>This just in from Batoun ka Batangaar Corp's (BBC's) Mark Toley in Nai Dili.

>Conservatives Won! 

>for Urdu listeners

>Burqay Wali Jamaat Jeet Gai!

>(Note: In rest of the world DemocRats and Librels are in power)

>The whole election was fought on the stage set by william shakespeare (wali
>sheikh pir for urdu listeners).
>  
>"An internal memo of Labor/Librel parties was the reason for Labor's defeat.
>The memo said that Neil Kinnock (Labor leader) believed that William Shaks.
>was from Sheikhupura, (the hawks of his party had maintained that WS was from
>Campbellpur), this belief of NK has resulted in Conservatives questioning
>NK's faithfuulness to Constitution and Cruiseship Queen Elizabeth II.

>Conservatives position has always been that WS was born in Strattford on
>Avon, and was buried a few miles away under the new seven staged highway.

>This last part irritated some of Moorshid's (ref. Dogar news) mureeds of
>Kashmiri origin, since they believe that he was buried in Cashmere and
>refer to this shair from Allama:

>	Wo Kashmir Mahkoom'O'Majboor'O'Faqir
>	Jisay Kabbhi Kehtay Thay Loug Strattford'e'Saghir

>Conservatives have thoroughly, thus, blackened Liberals faces using this
>controversy.

>NEWS just in! IRA in a Fit'e'Mussarat detonated leftover firecrackers from
>the last elections.

>Over and Out 

>Mark [ graduate of fitters academy] Toley in Nai Dili.

assalam alaikum 

some people have taken exception to the last para. above, i did not
mean to hurt anyone's feelings it just came out like that. i with my
utmost do sympathize with the families of the people affected by
such things (the bomb explosion killed 3, injured 91). i hope all
bodes well for the people who are always under such threat, also.
Sometimes from a B-1 bomber it does look like firecrackers going
off down below and on the screen it seems like a nintendo game.

khuda hafiz.
Murad [ life of an elephant is more precious than mine ] Mirza.
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Thursday, 9 Apr 1992 04:38:48 EDT
From: Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry <32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Women and Burqa: Analyzing the recent discussion
 <1992Apr8.234135.19796@sarah.albany.edu>

Salam Alaikum Yasmin Sahebah :

      I am busy in my exam and this is just warmup round and u are saying that
u would not be able to continue, but remember this is not a dabate or argument,
 this is a disucssion to have better understanding of Quran. What you know plea
se write and what we know we will give our input.  Please rest assure 'nobody
call u kafir, (I do not know anything about u, but I assume u are sunni muslim
and came to USA or either working and going to school).  It may possible that m
any young students may get benefit from our discussion.  Salam.
From: azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: The Boat Concept (was Re: Pakistan is the place to live not xyz and .sig! )
Date: 11 Apr 92 17:13:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <1992Apr5.182657.8022@acsu.buffalo.edu> acsossc@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Samir Chaudhari) writes:
><69815@ut-emx.uucp>, zaheer@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Imrana Zaheer) writes...
>>>``I will pass you in a small boat trapped by stormy seas, without
>>>saying a word. Perhaps, there is nothing to say, and there is no time
>>>for words. In these situations, words lose their meanings.''
>>>          ----- D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar
>> 
>> Wouldn't it be nice if some body could simplified the concept of
>> the small boat in the above paragraph?
>
>I am no wordsworth but i manage to appreciate some poetry.

	   Thanks for your impressive comments Mr. Chaudhari. I must say
Mr. Chaudhari is no "wordsworth", and I am no poet. These things I
write for my own recreation. I am flattered by the fact that some one
reads my .sigs, let alone try to appreciate the finer concepts.

Salman [Ghalib kaa hai andaaz-i-biyaaN aur] Azhar




-- 
``I will pass you in a small boat trapped by stormy seas, without
saying a word. Perhaps, there is nothing to say, and there is no time
for words. In these situations, words lose their meanings.''
          ----- D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar
From: waseems@sco.COM (Waseem Siddiqi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Islam on Marriage
Date: 15 Apr 92 06:18:36 GMT
Organization: SCO Canada, Inc.

Hello Folks,

   I'd like to find out more about the Islamic viewpoint on marriage.

   The reason I'm suddenly interestd in this area is that I've reached 
that age where ...aah, how shall I put it..innocent references to the
m-word has suddenly increased in frequency at the dinner table. :-)

   I suppose I have to deal with it. All this time I've been comforting
myself by rationalising that what father would give his daughter to
a crazy person like me (who likes Van M, sixties songs, Iqbal and
Ghalib... beat that!) :-) :-)  Lately however I've been having that sinking
feeling that there may be such demented people out there. :-) 

  So all ye and sundry, what are your understanding of marriage 
spec. relating to our way of carrying out this act of bond (rishta lagana,
mehndi,butt,baraat,jahez,valima etc- the whole gamut) I realise a lot
of out traditions in marriage are borrowed and are not entirely correct.
I am specially interested in our method of finding a partner i.e arranged
marriages. How do all these stand w.r.t Islam ?

    Will some learned member of SCP care to illuminate me on this subject ?
I'd also be interested in finding out about books that deal with this 
issue.
   
    I am also interested in hearing personal views of SCPians on
this topic.

waseem [indecision is the basis of flexibility] siddiqi
email- waseems@sco.com
-- 
Waseem A. Siddiqi                                 Tel:    (416) 922 1937 
SCO Canada                                        email: waseems@sco.com 
Toronto, Canada                                        uunet!sco!waseems
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: azeem@iago.caltech.edu (Azeem, Mohammad)
Subject: Re: Dating I: The Common Sense
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.40    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:12:00 GMT

In article <nadeem.702537081@deathstar>, nadeem@deathstar.Stanford.EDU (Nadeem Hussain) writes...
>ahmad@seas.gwu.edu (The Alien) writes:
> 
> 
> 
>>	Here is me on Dating.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    
> 
>>WHAT DATING IS:	Dating is a means for meeting (usually) the opposite
>>sex PRIMARILY for a LONG term relationship. By far the best longterm
>>relationship has happened to be marriage. So in many cultures you may
>>not date if you donot intend to marry. In the west it is acceptable to
>>date and even associated to eachother without marrying for a long time.
> 
>>WHAT DATING IS NOT: It is not a means for finding a temporary sexual
>>partener, not at least for a night or so. It is not a means of getting
>>confidence to deal with the opposite sex either. It is not either going
> 
>What is this shit?  Apriori analytic truths about dating?
> 
>Death to semantic imperialism!!
> 
>Nadeem.

If it looks like shit to you it is your opinion. Don't assume others think
the same. By the way the author has distinctly stated that this is his 
definition of dating and not any kind of universal truth. 
> 
> 
> 
>
From: zafar@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Syed Z. Kazmi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Logic
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:39:14 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.pakistan
Organization: Northeastern University


In article <1992Apr16.221509.2902@prism.poly.edu> ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain) writes:


   From: zafar@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Syed Z. Kazmi)
   Date: 16 Apr 92 18:45:48 GMT

   >So, it is not our duty to prove that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was not a
   >prophet. It is your responsibility to prove him the prophet of God.
   >If you are unable to prove that then either you are wrong or incapable
   >of. In both the cases we are not the one to be blamed.

   So Christians, Jews and Hindus cannot be blamed becaused we muslims 
   are 'incapable' of  proving the truth of Holy Prophet Hazrat
    Muhammad(PBUH).

   >May God show us both the way to his will.

   Ameen

Dear AH

Although that was not the point I was trying to make, you got
it right,  dude!

As far as we are concerned we are the ones responsible for
spreading the message of Islam by our routine actions and by special
efforts. As long as Hindues, christians, etc do not get our message,
we are the ones to be blamed.

	What our responsibility is? 
	1) To spread the living living miracle of Prophet
	Muhammed(PBUH) i.e Quran, to all the people in this world

	2) second and more important is to exercise that Book(Quran)
	in our life so as to be a model of what that Book says.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Article Alert
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:25:43 GMT
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


The Economist, April 4-10th

page 11 - Living with Islam
page 47 - Islam- What fundamentalism is
page 49 - Islam: Banking without interest
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re Islamic justice
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:49:53 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

From: vkuttikattu@vax1.umkc.edu
Organization: University of Missouri-Kansas City

>> 'abhorrent to modern man' etc. Your tone lacks any anthropolical sense.
>> Naveed
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>there are a lot of people who think like me and plus there is the news
>media ,and people who have seen Islamic "justice" in action who would 
>disagree with you.A thousand lies won't change the truth.Don't delude your
>selves, Islamic Justice is not  JUSTICE!
                                     >Kunnath Paulose


You proved my point i.e the news media and the way people mention Iran and
Saudi Arabia. I don't disagree about the severity of the punishment. I just
don't see one person judging a culture from his perspective. Yes Kunnath Islamic
punishment do carve out our social customs and if you want to judge Islamic
punishment from your perspective and have so proven them to be barbaric well 
that is your opinion to which you are entitled. It sounds like inferences about
the Muslim society in general which has yet to see the moral decay that we see
prevalent in the US. It may not be the Islamic justice at work but the social
customs that do not provide environment for crimes for which punishments are
known to be severe, hence becoming the deterent. I dont know about the 
statistics for rape, incest and adultry but I bet there is a marked difference
between a moderately Muslim society and the US. I don't say that they do not
occur and the rights of the accused are indeed violated but the emphasis is
on the difference and how prevalent these crimes may be in two societies.









Naveed.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Monday, 13 Apr 1992 11:52:39 EDT
From: <AIK100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: British Open Update

AA!
   As most of you know that British Open Squash is going on right now and only
Jansher is in Semifinals from Pakistan. He is in the Semis and is playing the
world champion Rodney Martin in Semi's. Jansher has beaten Tristan Nancarrow of
Australia in the quarter finals in just ****45 MINUTES**** The score was
9-5,9-1,9-0. Jansher Khan has a very good chance for winning the title which
has been with Jahangir Khan for the past 11 Years. More Later..

                                      Salam
                                                            AZHAR KHAN
From: aq0@engr12.uark.edu (Amer Qureshi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Some info on banned book in Sind
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:00:35 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas

psa@cc.uow.edu.au (u9067914 pakistan students assoc) writes:

>BBC radio reported on monday------------------------
>
>
>Govt of sind banned a book named "Waiting for Allah" written by
>Christina Lamb. According to official version given this book
>contain some objectionable notes about Prophet Mohammad (SAW) and
>his wife, this book also have something against Father of the Nation 
>Mohammad Ali Jinnah. For the interst of our readers Christina Lamb was
>before posted in Pakistan as a journalist working for Financial Times
>during her stay in Pakistan she completed this book. This book has mixed 
>feelings amongs critics some of them in favour of "Freedom of Expression"
>movement agreed that this book should'nt be banned.Banning a book in Pakist
>an is suppose to be a provincial matter therefore this book is still available
>in rest of the provinces.
>
>Monitered and reported by 
>
>Ali Abbas
>University of Wollongong 
>Australia.

If i am not wrong, this book was available in  markets from early 1991.

AQ