From: sysevm@nsrvan.vanc.wa.us
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.privacy,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Limits on the Use of Cryptography?
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:50:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: nsrvan.1992Nov16.095039.53
Organization: National Systems & Research, Vancouver WA

In article <1992Nov13.191840.23900@news.eng.convex.com>, gardner@convex.com (Steve Gardner) writes:
> In article <1992Nov13.091553.51@nsrvan.vanc.wa.us> sysevm@nsrvan.vanc.wa.us writes:
>>Some kind of an intelectual game not the deeply insightfull
>>modde of thought that is required for this issue. (see my next followup for
>>more details)
> 	You seem to confuse rational thought with intellectual games.
> 	You also seem to confuse emotion with insight.  
> 
>>No, it does not mean that. It means to look at the real arguments. It
>>means that you would have a differient viewpoint if you were looking at this 
>>as a father instead of as an intellectual game.
> 	But I AM a father.  I am also a citizen.  You could use your
> 	irrational, emotional arguments to justify any atrocity you wanted.
> 	All you have to say is: "I'm a father, certain kinds of individuals
> 	are dangerous to my children, therefore this constitution shit
> 	is for the birds.  We can't affort it.  The price in the blood
> 	of the innocents is too high."
> 
> 	Sadly, all too many people are dangerously susceptible 
> 	to totally specious arguments based on emotion.  That's why
> 	mobs and witch hunts and mass hysterias happen.  Until people 
> 	can discipline themselves to avoid hysteria we are likely to be 
> 	troubled by dictators and despots.  The most effective of
> 	which know how to manipulate people who can't control their 
> 	emotions long enough to have a rational thought.
> 
> 
> 						smg
> 
> 	

<donning flame proof suit>

	Some how I've lost the reason this thread got to this state. I'll go
back over the comments and my followups. Let's see what are my points...

1) registration of crypto keys is a violation of a natural right to privacy

2) the constitution is not to be discarded at all on any point

3) the use of the child molester example to support the registration of crypto
keys is bad logic because the emotional impact clouds reason

4) A person who has first hand experience with the threat of a child molester
would not worry about the defence of non-registration of crypto keys but would
think more about KILLING that molester oughtright. (this comes from the
fathers and mothers in my area that I've talked to. Non of which would actually
do it)

5) the effectiveness of law enforcement in finding the molester, bring the
molester to the justice system, and preventing the molester from escaping their
prison are much more important than regestering crypto keys

6) the effectiveness of the judical system in placing the molester behind bars
for the length of the sentence is a total discrace and is much more important
that registering crypto keys.

7) I call it an intelectual game because the prop of the child molester has
little to do with crypto keys except the emotional appeal. And if those of you
who use this line of reasoning stopped and thought what you would feel should
your son/daughter become a victim you would realize that those crypto keys rank
at the very lowest on the scale of things that the government should/could have
done.

Case in point: Westly Allan Dodd (our molester/murderer) says that all this
could have been prevented at any prior time he was in the judical system had
he not been released early form his prior molestation CONVICTIONS and had he
been forced to complete the court MANDATED treatment programs. In short the
criminal justice system does not work for whatever reasons and the registration 
of crypto keys will not have any effect on that.


Regards, Ethan