From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: The March in D.C.
Date: 8 Apr 92 11:40:32 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In talk.abortion, franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) writes:
>YOu guys are realy immature you know that? When the tough gets going,
>the pro-choice get offensive. How many Christian jokes have been brought
>into an otherwise serious forum for discussing abortion?

Pray tell, Steve, how does one not get offensive, in YOUR opinion, when
the discussion is directly related to questioning your beliefs? This
is the crux of the matter, since your belief tells you that a fertilized
egg is a human life, and the rest of the world says BULL. I gather that
you think anything that questions your holy beliefs is offensive, and,
in a way, you're probably correct. Jokes are another way of showing
absurdity of a position, provided the position is illogical enough to
lend itself to this procedure. I, as a pro-choicer, have tried logic,
all I get in return is emotional diatribe largely based on religious
beliefs. There is no rational way to logically argue this without resorting
to the previously mentioned methods.

>each individual has his/her own calling in life, and YOU don't have the
>right to deny it.

I don't believe anyone here ever tried to deny anyone anything, except,
of course, the pro-lifers, who wish to deny a woman bodily autonomy
and freedom.

>TOGETHER to help the victims. YOu see the women as a victim, we see
>the fetus as a victim. CAN WE NOT WORK TOGETHER so that everyone is happy?

The inherent problem here is, as has been pointed out several times
to you, that there is a woman involved here who, in some cases, must
sacrifice too much (as in her life). As for solving the problem so that
everyone is happy, this can only happen when you son't force someone
to carry a fetus against their will, nor require them to be responsible
for it after birth (how you're going to accomplish these I'd like to
know :)

>I don't think you guys give a shit... All I see are the pro-lifers here
>begging to work TOGETHER, and you guys are so busy trying to hack away
>at our faith and pride, that you don't spend any time thinking about
>a solution.
>  Your solution is "maybe if we get them to shut the hell up, then the
>problem will go away..." Think again my friend.

Aaahh, I/we do care, Steve, more than you, IMHO, since I/we care about the
person that is here now, not some potential, it might become the next
Einstein prodigy, child that doesn't exist yet. The reason we have to
hack away at your faith is that it is the reason you will not listen
to logic, and it tries to make you impose on others dictates that it
holds for you.

To reiterate, the only acceptable solution to me, anyway, is one where
you don't force a womwn to carry the fetus to term against her wishes.
(I believe this is supposed to be the land of the free :) My solution
is definitely not to get you to shut up, but to see the error in forcing
someone to do something against their will.

> Society could easily be split on the concept
>of abortion, and I am calling for peace. WE are calling for peace...
>It is up to the pro-choice now to decide. You will not pound us into
>submission. There are too many strong individuals in this movement
>for us to be silenced. 

You are???  Since when is calling for legislation to force others to
do something they don't want to do calling for peace? I thought this
was normally a call for war. I don't personally *want* to pound you
into submission, but if you won't see reason, I'll take it as an alternative.

>The ball's in your court now...

And may the ball remain in our court, that way you can't play :)

Ron
Newsgroups: talk.abortion