HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:05:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.



> The water topic brings up another question.  How do you stop a dog from 
> drinking giardia infested water?  Have any of you dog owners that have 
> brought a dog into the backcountry had the dog get giardia?
> 
No, and I can't believe it ever would.  I have seen my dog drink out of every body of water imagineable, and he has never gotten sick.  I suppose it is possible for a dog to get giardia, but I've never heard of it.  

The only time I've ever seen a dog get sick from drinking is a time when we stopped at a service station and my friend's dog drank out of the old oil(and whatever else they throw in there) container.  I don't know how much he drank before we stopped him, but we induced vomiting (boy was that fun!!) and then he was fine. 
--
---------------------------------
Tom Stephens
Corporate Computing and Networks, Chippewa Falls, WI
Cray Research Inc.  hens@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ari@world.std.com (Ari I Halberstadt)
Subject: Re: Exploding fuel bottles
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:34:06 GMT

In article <BtMqEr.8so@news.cso.uiuc.edu> you write:
>  Just some more fuel bottle miscellany: plastic fuel bottles can be
>chewed through by marauding porcupines (as well as boots, of course).
>I learned about this during a recent trip in Rocky Mountain NP.
>Aluminum bottles are safe from this threat, I trust?
 
Not to mention getting squashed and thus causing leaks around the
cap and/or cracks along the length. Plastic is also susceptible to many
solvents. Given the flammability, bad smell, high corrosive and soluble
abilities, carcinogenic effects, and any other ugly traits of fuels like
white gas, why would anyone take chances with anything other than a metal
container? My approach is to use the safest practical means of transporting
the fuel, regardless of the possibility of saving a few dollars.
-- 
Ari Halberstadt  ari@world.std.com  #include <disclaimer.h>  #include <quote.h>
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:27:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Sep4.120535.25789@walter.cray.com> hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens) writes:
>The only time I've ever seen a dog get sick from drinking is a time when we stopped at a service station and my friend's dog drank out of the old oil(and whatever else they throw in there) container.  I don't know how much he drank before we stopped him, but we induced vomiting (boy was that fun!!) and then he was fine. 

So much for the "Dogs know what's bad for themselves" theory.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: boots
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:41:11 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <12150055@hpmwga.sr.hp.com> deannab@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Deanna Bergstrom) writes:
>I have a pair of Danner "Lite" boots, a light-weight Gore-Tex lined boot.
>
>They cost about $120 3 years ago. 

You paid too much, but Danner Lights are the only leather boots I ever liked.
I even wear them in the desert when I don't feel like pulling cholla needles
out of my toes and my very light hiking shoes.
Mine need some shoe goo by the time the soles wear out, but in return for
the expense of replacing boots rather than soles you get comfort from day 1
and light weight.

	Heavy leather boots are overrated for crampons since
Danners work fine with strap-on crampons and plastic boots are better
for snap-on crampons.  The only purpose I have seen for heavy leather 
boots is mixed dry trail and extensive ice, where they might be marginally
more comfortable than plastic.  Well, plastic boots do cost a lot more.
Anybody who can't afford $2000+ in gear is not Truly Enlightened and
should not be allowed in the mountains before summer. :^{

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
What is the world's largest government subsidy to agriculture,
terrorism, speedboat manufacturing, organized crime, and prison
construction?
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:18:59 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <61Kg02RO1fvo01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes) writes:
 
|This attitude of _some_ dog owners, that the rules simply
|don't apply to them or their beloved animals, gives all
|dog owners a bad name.

No it doesn't.  Only if you stereotype all dog owners based on the attitude
of some is this true.  Are you saying that when you meet a dog owner you
first assume that they feel that rules don't apply to them or there dog? 
If this belief were extended to races it would be called racism.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: rbw3q@helga9.acc.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Whitehurst)
Subject: Re: Svea 123R (was: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-) 
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:42:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.001039.12597@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> flb@lune.berkeley.edu (Frederick Lee Burghardt) writes:
>Derek  Snyder said this about the Svea:
>
>>The only problem that I encountered with the stove is when I tried to use
>>the mini-pump thingie that you can get to prime it with. After a while,
>>the fuel cap that came with the mini-pump started to leak (i.e., a little
>>flame came out the end of it). Besides the obvious dangers, the stove also
>>didn't stay pressureized and burned cold. I've been told that this is a
>>common problem with the mini-pump.
>
>I should comment on this since I had a less than happy experience 
>with a "little flame" just recently.  Now, I love my Svea123 - it's been 
>...
>But somehow and somewhere some damage was done to the fuel filler
>hole sealing surface on the tank - some small dents.  While camping
>several weeks ago somewhere in Kings Canyon NP I, too, noticed a
>little flame coming from the under the lip of the filler cap.  Well, this
>being the only stove available I rationalized that it was no big deal.
>Some time later, at Lake Virginia just south of Mammoth, that little
>flame became a four foot pillar of flame as raw fuel came spitting out 
>through the damaged seal and the stove got hotter and hotter.  The only 
>way to put it out was to dump some water on it.  Now, I'm not sure how
>close to bombhood my stove came, but I didn't use it for the rest of the 
>trip, and I won't use it until it's repaired or replaced.
>
>Just a note to illustrate how little flames can become big trouble.
>
>Lee Burghardt
	Yup, a very good point for everyone to note!  Sort of a
"Challenger Syndrome" (as opposed to China Syndrome).  I had one of
the old Peak 1's which developed a flaming leak around the needle
valve on the generator.  An overhaul didn't fix it, so I bought a new
Peak 1, and am very satisfied.

-- 

Brad Whitehurst    |   Aerospace Research Lab
rbw3q@Virginia.EDU |   We like it hot...and fast.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: kiisaka@csi.uottawa.ca (Ken Iisaka (the mad pianist))
Subject: Re: Report: Conundrum Hot Springs, Colorad
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 15:15:11 GMT

There were actually many springs, but only one main pool.

You go through a marshy area before the bridge past the cabin, right?  If you
touch the ground, it's quite warm and there are many places where hot water is
coming out of the ground :)

Regardless, I want to go back there.

-- 
Ken Iisaka  kiisaka@csi.uottawa.ca : Just got back from Aspen, Colorado.
Artificial Intelligence Laboratory : Please be gentle.  I have to get 
University of Ottawa, Ont., Canada : acclimatised to the low altitude here.
H: +1 613 237 6642     W: 564 8155 : I was a mountain goat there...
From: karl@thuja.gsfc.nasa.gov (Karl A. Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 23 Aug 92 18:39:59 GMT
Organization: NASA/GSFC Laboratory for Terrestrial Physics

We've heard from a number of bc lovers who are also dog lovers, but don't take
their dogs into areas where they are prohibited.  I'd like to thank them for
their reasonable attitudes.  I'm not a dog owner, but I do like them.  I feel
they don't belong in true wilderness, for the reasons presented in this thread
and others.  I don't mind seeing them in some less-wild areas, but I think people
who bring dogs into places where they are prohibited are rude.  I wish all dog
onwers were like the ones I've thanked.
-- 
Karl A. Anderson		| Internet: karl@thuja.gsfc.nasa.gov
NASA/GSFC code 920.2 (HSTX)	| voice: (301) 286-3815
Greenbelt, MD 20771		| #include "std_disclaimer"
From: curtis@cs.arizona.edu (Curtis E. Dyreson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: smart First Need filter usage
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:02:50 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

For those of you considering the First Need water filter and eyeing the
$100+ price tags on the other models, here are the techniques which makes
your First Need a joy to use.

   1) Buy a prefilter!  Get yourself down to your local Herman's
      and pick up 2 Camphor (formerly Timberline) filter cannisters
      (cost $12).  Connect one to the end of your filter pump with a
      plastic tube (cost $1).  Now you've got two filters connected
      in sequence.  When the Timberline gets clogged you can either replace 
      accordingly, or unscrew it and clean it out.  I've had this 
      setup for two years in all kinds of water quality and I have 
      yet to even try backflushing my First Need.

   2) Buy a plastic tube that leads from the end of your filter to your
      water bottle and figure out how to affix it (cost $1).  How
      to do it is left as an exercise to the reader (varies according
      to your water bottle).  Voila, no more balancing the filter over
      the water bottle.

The First Need is a perfectly good tool, you just have to use it 
intelligently.  

Curtis Dyreson
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Good hikes in the Western Sierra
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:41:16 GMT

In article <14387@auspex-gw.auspex.com>,
johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>
>Since were on the Western/Eastern Sierra topic I thought I'd query the net
>for some info.  I was recently reading a flytying book and the author was
>talking about some great golden trout fishing in an area east of Bishop.
>I looked at my maps and found that I had identified a couple of other lakes
>in the area as good golden trout fisheries from a different reference.
>The area that I am looking at is Piute Pass.  The trail begins out of North
>Lake (out of Bishop,Ca) over the pass and then follows Piute Creek.  Has
>anyone taken this route?  What could I expect if I took this trip?  How many
>days?  Has anyone gone over Piute pass from the west?  Again, I'm looking
>for information on elevation gain, number of days, etc.
>
By coincidence, I did the trail to Piute Pass as a day hike about 6
weeks ago.  From the east that is.  It is very moderate, pleasent
walk.  I can't remember the elevation gain for sure; I think about
2000 ft.  The trail is not at all strenuous, however.  Also it is
quite pretty along the way.  This may be one of the nicest access
routes into the Sierra from the east.
From: vijayp@news.chips.com (Vijay Peddada)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Earthquake in ZION
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:52:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Chips and Technologies, San Jose, CA

I heard from someone this morning that there was an earthquake
in ZION and the park may be closed.  If anyone has any information
on this I would appreciate some info as I am leaving tonight to go
there. ( Sep 2 1992 ). Thanks
				- Vijay
From: gopal@astro.as.arizona.edu (Gopal Narayanan)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: campgrounds in cameron, arizona?
Summary: Yes there is..
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:13:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In article <1992Sep1.132456.9079@ryn.mro4.dec.com> manning@usdev.enet.dec.com (ANNE MANNING) writes:
>
>we'll be in the grand canyon in september, hiking down from the south rim.
>then we're headed to zion and bryce.  are there any campgrounds on 
>(i think) 89N within 50-75 miles after leaving the south rim?  the AAA map
>shows a marker for a campground but does not have a listing in the book.
>
>any/all help much appreciated.

I recall staying in a campground in Cameron about 60 miles East of the South
rim. If my memory serves right, it was a campground owned by the Chevron 
gas station at that intersection. Problems : almost on the highway, 
nasty looking/smelling restrooms. This was on a trip a year back.
Reason I remember is I saw a black widow spider in the restroom. :-)
I don't think there was any other campground within a large radius of
GC outside the park itself.
Hope that helps.



--
________________________________________________________________________
Gopal Narayanan                           
Steward Observatory.                      University of Arizona. Tucson.
gopal@astro.as.arizona.edu                             Ph (602) 621 1513
From: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Wilderness First Aid Instruction
Date: 1 Sep 1992 22:51:01 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Distribution: rec.climbing
Reply-To: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: antizen.ebay.sun.com

Earthbound Medical Rescue is the current Wilderness Medicine
training contractor for the Department of the Interior, Geological Survey.

Earthbound is holding a two day Wilderness First Aid Workshop
on Sep. 19 & 20 in Alum Rock Park, San Jose, from 9:00 to 5:00.
The cost is $80.00.

No prerequisite is required, however prior first aid training
is helpful.

A certificate of completion will be given upon completion of the class.
The curriculum is the same that is currently being taught to the field
personel from the Geological Survey. The class will be a combination
of lecture, demonstration, hands-on practicals and scenarios and is
designed to provide participants with a working knowledge and skill set
required to provide care for those injured or ill hours or days away
from communications with emergency medical services or care by a
physician.

Registration should be completed by Sep. 4th. Checks should be made
payable to;

Earthbound Medical Rescue
390 N. 12th st.
San Jose, CA
95112

For further information call 408/275-9542.
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:27:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug25.230120.5114@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
|Another reason to mimic Pacific Northwest types and carry an ice axe
|at all times!  What's good enough for Trotsky should be good enough
|for Rover. <evil grin>

Let see.  So far this month we've had someone suggest pushing someone off a
cliff for building cairns and now shooting or using an ice axe on someones
dog.

I think some people are taking the backcountry experience way too serious.

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:44:56 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

>In article 1950042@hpgrla.gr.hp.com, edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore) writes:
>|Regarding dogs in the backcountry.....
>|
>|
>|I understand that some folks consider their animals part of the
>|family, but remember those animals don't get the aesthetic
>|pleasure of parks like we do.

I'll argue with that.  Dogs seem very happy when brought to the backcountry.
They love and appreciate it.  In fact, they even seem to be able to sense it
in advance, and get excited.

What we need is more backcountry, for people, dogs, and even horses to enjoy.
Any way you stack it, that means we need fewer people on the planet.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Water treatment article from Am J Pub Health (1989)
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:59:21 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

In article <parkn8g@fido.asd.sgi.com>, akin@sgi.com (Allen Akin) writes:
>
> > The MSR is a piece of trash, according to reports from the field.
> 
> I replaced an ancient First Need with an MSR this season, and have no
> complaints.  Could you elaborate?

When the Pur and MSR first came out, I went to look at them at REI.  I
was struck by the fine industrial design and evident quality of the Pur.
By contrast, the MSR seemed crude and hacked together.

I've had only two reports from the field, both from kayakers who said
their MSRs clogged quickly and became extremely hard to pump.  This was
on California rivers of low to moderate siltation.  For Deseret rivers
I think the MSR would be totally unusable.  Most river runners gave up
on the First Need long ago, because of severe clogging problems.  Only
the Katadyn and Pur seem usable over long periods.
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Thread Sizes (was: Exploding fuel bottles)
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:09:44 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

Anyone else notice that, along about a year or two ago, MSR changed the thread
size on the Whisperlite and their fuel bottles, so you can no longer buy a
Whisperlite and a Sigg bottle and screw them together.....

Funny how that works, no?  :-)
---
1. Bill Gascoyne
From: tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Nalgene bottle lids (kiss them off!!)
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:51:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

bohack@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (edward.e.harstead) writes:
>
>grady@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Grady) writes...
>>I have cracked several Nalgene bottle lids (tightening too much, I guess),
>>and would like to obtain some replacements (the bottles are in fine shape).
>This has happened to me also, ....
>manufacturer goes on about how tough the bottle is, but the lid
>cracks during normal use.

I have moved up to new technology:  lexan!!  I buy coke in a 2 liter bottle
(or a 20 oz bottle), just make sure it has a plastic not a metal screw on
cap.  Voila -- you get to chug down some good healthy refreshment and
get the bottle for FREE!  They are more durable than the nalgene jobs (I
still have a couple quart nalgenes, one with cracked lid), they do not hold
smells and tastes like nalgene, they don't smell and taste like plastic
like nalgene.  I have *never* had them leak.  I use the 20 oz size to fit
in my butt-pack, and usually carry two 2-liter bottles in the outer pockets
of my Dana (this is the desert after all).  The only disadvantage is the
lack of a wide-mouth to shovel in solids, but this can be dealt with, or
just carry water.

It is sad for such a fine container to see just one use cycle.

Whenever I am at my local outdoor equipment store and see the nalgene
for sale I wonder when people are gonna wake up.
--
	Tom Trebisky	ttrebisky@as.arizona.edu
...."There's no sense in being precise when you don't even
.... know what you're talking about." 
                       - John von Neumann
From: shawn@Aardvark.Rain.COM (Shawn Allen)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Reading this group too much
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:52:57 GMT
Organization: Steve's UNIX System, Portland, Oregon

trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:

>In article <1992Aug27.175518.2450@colorado.edu> sherod@news.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod) writes:
>>and you wonder how they decide which tread designs have the least
>>effect on the enviroment.

>These shoes have low impact soles.  The soles fall apart on your way to
>the backcountry, so you change your mind about going.


                             ^^^^^ souls

>-- 

-- 
shawn@aardvark.rain.com                     |"The number of UNIX
"I'm with the government, I'm here to help!"|machines has grown to 10
"The God I believe in                       |with more expected." 
isn't short of cash, MISTER!!" -Bono        | -The UNIX manual, *1972*
From: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas
Date: 23 Aug 92 19:17:49 GMT
Reply-To: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker) writes:
> Deer poop little balls.  Horses poop BIG balls.
> 
> Ah, the smell of the great outdoors!  I have yet to find any hiker who finds
> it pleasant or even nonoffensive.

Meet one.  I find horse shit inoffensive and sometimes pleasant.  As long
as it isn't everywhere.  (And I am not a horseman; I have ridden a horse once
in my life.)

 karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz) writes:
> I must disagree.  This is indeed an aesthetic argument.  What difference
> does it make if I can travel faster?  Your (and Wayne's) disapproval
> is simply a matter of opinion and taste.

Yes, of course.  And sometimes I like to get somewhere quickly so I have more
time there, or can see something I couldn't see at a slower pace.  But
sometimes I prefer to go slowly, to forget the faster pace entirely.  And that
is when speed becomes a conflict, and that is when slowpokes don't welcome
speedsters.

Unfortunately, it is generally the speedster who doesn't understand the
preferences of the slowpoke.

   The sports car driver doesn't understand the bicyclist.

   The bicyclist doesn't understand the equestrian.

   The equestrian doesn't understand the backpacker.

Not always true by a long shot, but that's the tendency.

Suppose a group of backcountry travellers managed to go from one place to
another with hang gliders, each effortlessly carrying 200 pounds of gear.  They
get where they are going quickly, make no noise, leave no trash, are always
courteous, and manage to control their gliders so they don't spook horses. 
Would you still go horsepacking where they go, or would you prefer to find
another place?

Horses have their place, and I don't mind them.  Dogs have their place.  Humans
have their place.

If we were all exactly alike, we would all go to the same place at the same
time.  And I don't like crowds.  So vive la difference, and provide for the
difference.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.meta.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.meta.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330