HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Kenneth_Ferguson@rand.org (Ken Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Dirty Dozen VS. Seagal
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:12:37 GMT
Organization: RAND
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1a2



    Remo; It sounds as though you have fallen for the Seagal mystique
and hype. 
 
     On Entertainment Tonight , they reported where Seagal had made
claims of being a CIA operative during the 60's and 70's, and had been on
their "HIT" squad. But when
the CIA was contacted about this claim they said they had never heard of
Seagal until
after his movie carrer. Sure you can say that the CIA did'nt want to
compromise
themselves. But if Seagal had worked for them he would have been
debriefed and told
what to say and what not to say. 

      I think what's scary is that if he had in fact worked for the CIA .
He obviously
cared nothing about the law or his sworn oath to protect the information
that he procured during his tenure at the Corporation. Now thats a person
to look up to?

            Ken Ferguson Tang Soo Do
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Mail Order Knives
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:28:25 GMT
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 20490@cbfsb.cb.att.com, osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>In article <9980@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>>A datapoint...
>
>	On the top of his head, no doubt...
>>
>>I broke the top off of a Gerber MarkII. And it wasn't very difficult. 
>
>	Well shoot, it's only a 420 alloy and using it to pry the concrete
>	top off your septic tank isn't exactly what the knife was designed
>	for.  Sheesh.
>

I broke the top off of one of mine also...dropped it from waist hight
into dirt.  Snapped right off.  After that I wasn't too sure I ever wanted
to use a gerber in self defense...Then again, leaving the tip of you
knife in someones ribs could cause them some problems...

-Garth



			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |
From: albert@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Albert E. Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: When to start kumite?
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:08:23 GMT
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

Speaking as someone who's mostly had experience with Chinese arts, I can
cite my experience with I'd call "informal" Shaolin kung fu (it was a college
phys. ed. course, so there wasn't an emphasis on being strictly perfect
w.r.t. the "correct" versions of things).  We started sparring within the
first two weeks -- easy, body-awareness type stuff at first, working up to
variably light contact sparring (no techniques barred) quite quickly.  I
feel very strongly that this is the way to go, assuming you trust your
students.  Those who are trustworthy should see the purposes for which they
are learning techniques -- I don't hold with the year-of-horse-stance of
Shaolin legend, nor with the comparable Case Western fencing team
weaponless-first-year approach.  I suppose those approaches may have been
designed to weed out the undesirables, but that doesn't mean I have to agree
with the attitude.

I find personally that I perform much better -- more correctly, truer to
form -- when I know what a technique is supposed to be used for and have some
standard to judge my performance against.  Sparring can give you very clear
feedback about what you're doing right and wrong.  It always bothered me that
wu shu has essentially turned a martial art into a form of dance -- a very
difficult and strenuous one, but not a practical fighting style.  In fact, it
bothers me that any martial art is crippled as a means of self-defense in the
name of somebody's idea of style (I don't have my asbestos suit on, so I won't
name arts that I think are crippled; besides, everyone thinks that his/her art
is best, n'est-ce pas?).  I don't mind taking a gentle approach (because I'm
not into full-contact, etc.), but I don't believe in leaving important pieces
out, either.  Ideally, one should try to learn the important ideas behind as
many arts as possible.  They all have something to teach.

Al
Xref: sparky rec.martial-arts:10551 soc.men:14001
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,soc.men
Subject: Re: women, training, && violence
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:32:14 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan) writes:
>	There's a masculine normative bias to the MA culture. The implication
>in this thread is that "masculine" attitudes to violence are correct,
>while "feminine" attitudes to violence are incorrect.
>	Is it really our job to "fix" female behavior? Are we being a little
>presumptuous in assuming that there SHOULD be more women in the martial
>arts?
>	I'm not making any statements either way, just trying to point out some
>assumptions in the arguments.

     In the Seido system, 40% percent of our members are women. At my
dojo, we have 5 black-belt women and 6 black-belt men. This is a hard
system, and the women train just as hard as the men - they kumite with
us (and some of them hit _hard_!), train on the makawari boards, and
all of our black-belt ladies have done breaking with concrete blocks. They
are all excellent karateka, and I am proud to train with them.

     But they don't show up at the dojo the first days as excellent
karateka any more than men do! The ability to be able to deal in and
with violence is slowly built up. The first training is in basic technique,
and punching and kicking the air isn't too violent. Then we begin the
self-defense combinations, and it's easier to apply a little violence
when someone has already tried to hit you. By the time they're ready
for kumite, the ladies are ready to rock and roll.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
"But as records of courts and justice are admissible, it can easily be proved
 that powerful and malevolent magicians once existed....The evidence...is still
 unimpeachable.  The judges' decisions...were sound in logic and in law. Nothing
 in any existing court was ever more thoroughly proved than the charges of
 witchcraft and sorcery for which so many suffered death.  If there were no
 witches, human testimony and human reason are alike destitute of value."
 -- Ambrose Bierce
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,misc.fitness
From: tbont@ep.ieee.org (Thomas Bontrager)
Subject: wing chun
Organization: IEEE, New York, NY
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:55:31 GMT

Anybody know all the wing chun (ving tsun) schools in NY? I
know there's one in the phone book, but somebody told me there was
another one. Thanks

Tom
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: karate Kid III
Organization: just me
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 13:30:09 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts

In article <1992Jul23.133540.13867@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
<lots of stuff crammed into a small, dark, inaccessible place>
>	3) I am also curious if any of you have had experience with a truly
>	   evil instructor, like the character (Kreese) in the movie?
>
A school once opened up near here which taught "Korean Karate".  Two of
the senior students/instructors were putting flyers on cars.  They got into
a discussion with some redneck types about the propriety of leaving papers
on people's cars.  They invited the rednecks to play, and scared them off
with some high kicks and kiai's, according to some witnesses.

Rednecks leave.  Leaflet guys continue leafletting.  Rednecks return for
round two a few minutes later, with their buddy, Mr. Aluminum Baseball Bat.
Leafletters rapidly acquire several broken bones.

According to their statements, their teacher had told them that a little
demonstration of their skills in use would be useful advertising.

The same teacher, when challenging what my Hapkido teacher knew, stated that
he "could take falls, no big deal".  30 seconds later he was accusing my
teacher of attempting to maim him.  Why?  His black belt in Hapkido did not
include rolling out of a simple wrist-lock takedown.  Further discussion
yielded the possibility of legal action against my teacher, at which he said
"Go ahead" and left.  The other dojo didn't even last 4 months, and the police
spoke with him several times about his behavior, and that of his students.

Is this evil, or just stupid?
		David Pipes
robear@digex.com
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: deadliest art
Date: 21 Jul 92 05:18:06 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>
>Absolutely. This is why it strikes me as so ludicrous to recommend MA to
>someone as a means of self-defense (assuming they need it). It just takes
>so damn long, that I think it is only realistic to measure it in terms
>of decades rather than years. 

     Not at all. Significant unarmed self-defense skills (by which I
mean that one is significantly better off with such training) can be
built up over a few weeks. There are, of course, varying degrees; a
few weeks is not nearly as good as a few years, and a few years is not
nearly as good as a few decades. But in a few weeks, you can teach a
handful of useful striking methods, a few simple joint locks, and some
vital areas to target. On the other hand, if you want to reach the
higher levels of ability, those first few weeks are spent in laying
the foundations that will get you there in a few years.

     Unless you plan to carry your gun on your person 24 hours a day,
seven days a week, and to never get into a situation where force - but
not lethal force - is called for, martial arts training for
self-defense sounds like a very good idea.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
     "[There is] a duty in refusing to cooperate in any undertaking that 
      violates the Constitutional rights of the individual. This holds in
      particular for all inquisitions that are concerned with the private
      life and the political affiliations of the citizens..." 
      -- Albert Einstein
From: snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bricks used for demo breaking
Date: 24 Jul 92 11:32:45 GMT
Organization: NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE CENTER

Steve Heller does a good job with describing bricks.  A couple
additions:

Never use pencils as your spacers for patio blocks, even though
they have flat sides, the blocks can roll around, messing up your
concentration and boring the audience.  What I think works best is
1/4" square aluminum stock that somebody on the demo team picked
up from a scrap yard. 

You can cast your own patio blocks, we've done this, you can do
two things, by adding more water to your concrete mixture you can
create a weaker block (oh here come the flames *again*) and also you
can create a smoother block.  If you are doing a forefist break you
really should put a cloth over the brick, cause scabs on your knuckles
take a long time to heal and people don't like other people bleeding
these days!

The easy way to start on patio blocks is the hammerfist, this is a
gimme!

A whole nother brick is the skinny brick they make for brick sidewalks.
Sa Bu Nim likes to do speed breaks with 4 or so of these at demos,
*VERY DANGEROUS* not for Sa Bu Nim, but for everybody else, brick
flies everywhere.  *Not* recommended!

> 4. A "cinder block" is about 8"x8"x16" of cement with two or three holes.
hmmm.  I have never tried this, has anyone of the list zapped a 
common cinderblock?   Sounds hard.

>2. A "red brick" is, I don't know exactly, about 3"x4"x8" --- a standard
>building brick.
well I don't know a lot about red bricks, but I do know that they aren't
all created equal.  We were sent to a brick factory to buy some for a
breaking seminar about 2 years back and I bought about 20 .79 cent
ones and 5 1.00 one which were darker and prettier and a little shiny.
Man those 1.00 bricks just didn't want to break!

I bought a couple boxes of roof tile at a yard sale a while back, they
were really neat! for breaking.

2. A "red brick" is, I don't know exactly, about 3"x4"x8" --- a standard
building brick.

>1. Make sure the bricks are dry.  Cement is porous, and bricks left out in
>the rain carry water.  It will be tough enough without water. 

I'm not sure this is right.  Several times I've picked up the patio
blocks right from the yard the same morning as a demo and they
didn't seem any different.  But I am no expert on this kind of thing.

I've read that traditional MAs used to break small river pebbles, I
haven't had any success with small rocks, how is this done?

===================================================================
   ** my dream: voice, video, data, 3 services, 1 network **
===================================================================

Stephen Northcutt (snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil)     Networks Program Manager
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: engp2024@nusunix2.nus.sg (ALI NAJAFI)
Subject: Re: An interesting advertisement...
Reply-To: nuscc.nus.sg
Organization: Dept. EE, National Univ. of Singapore
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 07:46:27 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.211251.16249@cs.rose-hulman.edu>, you write:

|> hands <*crunch* aaahhhh *thud*>...."
|>
|> do i have a future in advertising, or what?

Bravo. Bravo. Very good. Yeah, why not.
Add some other sentences to the above advertisement and post it.

Ali.
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: women, training, && violence
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:52:16 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Jul30.000711.6390@brtph560.bnr.ca> merylf@brtph115.bnr.ca (Meryl W. Freeman) writes:
>What's wrong with her getting upset at seeing her loved one hurt? 

	I'd like to be able to show/explain that it's _play_ and doesn't
hurt at all...  That it's practice that could keep you from _getting_ 
_hurt_ at some future time...

>If your concern is purely self defense (is this your SO's concern too

	Just mine.  That's why I'm worried.
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Books on Chi/Ki
Date: 25 Jul 92 17:56:32 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

The scariest thing I remember about Mantak Chia's many books is the one where
weights on strings are tied around one's testicles (if male) or to a small
round object that is inserted into the vagina (if female) and then suspended
a few inches or more off the ground.  I recently heard of people doing this
to themselves without apparent harm, but seeing that was enough to convince
me that Chia is just pushing the envelope a little too hard -- even if it
turns out that these are time-honored practices, which I won't vouch for.

Al
From: itkin@mrspoc.Transact.COM (Steven List)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Special Judo Workshops
Summary: Special Judo workshops for judoka and karateka
Keywords: judo karate workshop
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:14:10 GMT
Reply-To: steven@Transact.COM (Steven List)
Distribution: ba
Organization: Transact Software

California Karate Academy is sponsoring a special two-part judo
workshop.  There will be two versions of the workshop - one
targeted at judoka and one targeted at karateka.  The second part,
I believe, will combine the two.  But my memory may be failing me.

The first part will be taught by Sensei Bob McKean of the Milpitas
PD and a highly ranked and regarded judo instructor.  There will be
one session in Milpitas on August 11th and another in Cupertino on
August 12th.  These will cover the same materials, and are geared 
to teaching the fundamentals of judo to karateka.  Two are being
offered to make it more geographically convenient.

The second part will be taught by Sensei Phil Porter, head (forgive
me for not knowing his proper title and position) of the US Judo
Federation (someone correct me if I've misstated this).  He will be
teaching the second part of the judo workshop for karateka on 
Wednesday September 2.  There will also be a special judo workshop
for judoka around that same date (probably the 31st of August or
the 1st of September).

If you're interested, call California Karate Academy at

    Cupertino: (408) 253-4044
    Milpitas : (408) 946-1023

Yes, there is a fee, but I'm not sure what it is.  The fee will 
include registration with the US Judo Federation plus something
for the instructors.  I'm sure they'll tell you when you call.
I hope we'll see you there.

Osu!

Steven

-- 
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
 : Steven List @ Transact Software, Inc. : "I LIKE it!" The Rocketeer    :
 : itkin@Transact.COM ... mrspoc!itkin   : "I LIKE to watch." C. Gardner :
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Tony Blauer, Chu Fen Do, Panic Attack
Summary: Anyone have experience with this and can share impressions ?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 28 JUL 92 13:37:22    


There's a gentleman in Montreal, Quebec, named Tony Blauer who
teaches what he calls a scientific approach to confrontation 
management and self-defense, or 'martial science.' 

He calls his training approach Chu Fen Do, and has something of
a cult following for his specialized full-contact self-defense
scenario drills, called 'panic attack.'  Chu Fen Do somewhat 
resembles Jeet Kune Do in some ways, except that its smaller following
seems to help keep its quality control much tighter.  It borrows 
very heavily on western boxing and muay thai for its basic movements,
and incorporates some heavy contact-oriented variations of Filipino and Chinese
trapping drills, which are applied in simulated street scenarios.  It
also is very heavily psychology-oriented, using realistic role-playing
drills to help students develop their decision making ability under
stress.

I know of Tony only from some phone conversations with him and viewing several 
of his videotapes, but what I saw and heard was extremely impressive, both his
personal level of skill and the confidence and skills of his students.

He runs seminars of various types, from conceptual theory of conflict
resolution to physical combatives, and encourages physically
challenged students, saying that he can tailor the training for them.

I'm very interested in hearing whether anyone on the net has experience
with this man and his training methods and ideas and can give me their 
impressions.

						kind regards,

						todd
From: burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Is Publication of Net Posts ok?
Date: 29 Jul 92 03:27:57 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

I'm finally going through all the posts and messages I've logged over
the last couple of years, getting ready to use bits and pieces in my
dissertation (yes, you folks are going to be famous!  If it gets 
published that is...).  Anyway, does anybody know if I have to write
everybody who posted or is it ok to quote from the net as long as
I attribute (writing history in the computer age!)?  Most of the 
quotations will be 4 lines or less (except for one great one from
soc.asian-american, where a guy started ranting about orientalism;
that one is about 30 lines long).  Does anybody know netiquette
about this, or legal aspects of it?  In addition, is there anybody
that outright does not want their name given out?  Should I just
omit the email addresses as a rule?

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn)
Subject: Re: Dog Techniques
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 18:16:08 GMT

In article <MARY.92Jul23122418@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>
>In article <seah.711850388@sfu.ca> seah@fraser.sfu.ca (Simon Seah) writes:
>
>   I don't think I'm cut out to do martial arts.  I would hesistate to hurt
>   even a big nasty dog attacking me.  Some compassion thing, I guess.
>   At most, I would probably stand about
>   and do non-dangerous defensive actions, or just DODGE LIKE CRAZY.
>
>   Does martial arts reduce one's conscience, or do dogs from hell that
>   try to eat innocent people walking to school  not deserve any
>   consideration.
>   ^- not a flame, just curious.
>
	[snip]
>
>	4) If you have never been attacked in such a fashion, what you 
>	   think you would do and what you would actually do are probably
>	   two very different things.

I suspect that this may be the crux of the problem, that this gentleman,
as he is admittedly not a martial artist, is simply missing some
implicit context.

Simon, the topic under discussion is not an average Labrador, or whatever
have you, that bounds out at you, barking its fool head off, when you
go jogging past its territory.  This has happened to me literally hundreds
of times, and I've *never* had to do anything more than stand my ground
and speak firmly to the beast.  And you are quite correct in thinking
it would be moronic play full-contact karate with a pooch like that.

What we're discussing is quite a different thing -- a determined,
committed attack from a big, mean dog.  It's not a question of getting
barked at, or even getting bitten once or twice.  It's a situation where
there's a genuine danger to life and limb.

It isn't a very common situation, but neither is a lot of the stuff
we worry about around here.

-- 
Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...In Peking, he told me, there lived a
7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |famous boxer who dropped down from three
Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |stories onto an interior courtyard
55428                |                |without making a sound when he landed."
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: History of Korean MA
From: operator@anasaz (System Operations)
Date: 19 Jul 92 01:26:23 GMT
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA

->    I do not claim to be thoroughly familiar with TKD, but I do hold
->a Dan in Tang Soo Do, so I will talk (type??) about that. Grandmaster Hwang 

Perhaps you are also familiar with your code of ethics.  Would you please
explain this lineage and from where it comes.  My understanding is that 
it is the same code of ethics repeated by Korean school children.  Were
does this originate from?  My understanding is that it from the ancient
Hwarang warriors.  Does Tang Soo Do have any lineage from this system?

Stephen Vadnais Hwarang Do practicioner