From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Jesus is a Prophet, not Son of God
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:56:43 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <92314.114245RBNXHS@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> RBNXHS@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com writes:
|This is in response to Kalki Dasa's comment on Jesus/Muhammad/Qur'an:
|     Kalki has shown a total ignorance of what Islam stands for, as to the
|     concept of Wahi (revelation) and the Qur'an, in particular. He asked
|     if the Muslims do not accept the authenticity of the New Testament
|     accounts about Jesus, where do they get information about Jesus? The

Is it not logical that one would get one's information about Jesus 
from his contemporaries?

|     answer is very simple: from the Qur'an and Sunnah (the sayings of the
|     Prophet Muhammad sallal-lahu alaihe was-salam (SAWS)), the last Prophet
|     of God to humanity. Prophets get revelations from God (mostly through
|     the archangel Jibrail (AWS) or Gabriel, and/or directly from God). In

I can understand the logic you use to say that Muhammad received direct
revelations about Jesus, but you might want to consider that revelations
were not needed about Jesus' life on this earth, for there were people
with him and they wrote about him (i.e., the New Testament.)  These 
people were taught by Jesus and He opened their eyes to what the Old
Testament had to say about Himself.  These writings tell us that previously
God used prophets, but in the last days God used his son.  Jesus finished
the work that human priest can never finish.

In Hebrews 1, we see that God in times past spoke through the prophets, but
in these last days he spoke to use through his Son, whom he has appointed
heir of all things, by whom he also made the worlds.  Who being the brightness
of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things
by the word of his power, whe he had by himself purged our sins, sat down
on the right hand of the Majesty on high; being much better than the angels,
as he hath by inheritance objtained a more excellent name then they.  For
unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son.  Unto the
Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.

Oh, you might note that the Son, Jesus, is called God here in Hebrews 1.

I assume you believe the Old Testament is valid, just not the New Testament?
Do you believe that God Himself was to come to the earth?  

Do you believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead?

Can you cite the directives the Quran gives about Tritnitarians?

|     these revealed messages are sometimes information concerning past, present
|     and future events. Thus, Moses (AWS), without having ever seeing Abraham

Revelation is needed for past and future events - understanding may
be needed for present events.

|     (AWS), was informed as to the details about what happened in those days
|     to his forefather, and the same is true for other Prophets of God,
|     including David, Solomon, Jacob, Isaac, Elisha, Ezekiel, Zakariya and
|     others. They did not necessarily have to read books to get knowledge,
|     since revelation (Wahi) is a higher form of knowledge which is ONLY
|     granted to Prophets (Nabiim) of God. The information concerning Jesus
|     (and other Prophets) was revealed to Muhammad (from God), and these are
|     retained in the Qur'an and in the ahadith of Muhammad (SAWS). The infor-
|     mation there, of course, would be shocking for most Christians since
|     they have deified a human being - Jesus the son of Maryam, while the
|     Qur'an and ahadith of Muhammad clearly say that Jesus was nothing more
|     than a human being, a Prophet of God, sent unto the children of Israel.

He was God's last messenger - he was God in human flesh - he humbled
himself and took on the form of a man.  Thought you may be shocked, 
He was and is God and man.

|     As to the matter of belief, this is what Muslims believe. A non-Muslim
|     is free to accept or reject the information provided above, concerning
|     the concept of Wahi and the role of Jesus.
|
|     Kalki also ignorantly suggests that the concept about God has not been
|     clearly mentioned either in the Bible or in the Qur'an. He is wrong.
|     The concept of God in Islam is very clearly laid down in the Qur'an
|     and Sunnah, and goes beyond what Kalki said to be "Allah is Great,
|     He is Most Merciful and Compassionate." Read the Qur'an from Surah
|     al-Fatiha to Surah an-Naas, you will get a clear understanding about
|     Allah, and the monotheistic beliefs of Muslims (as against polytheistic
|     ideas concerning God in some eastern religions). Read the books of
|     Sahih Sitta (Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, an-Nisa'i, ibn-Majah, at-Tirmizi)
|     for further references.
|- Siddiqui.

Jesus is a prophet, a priest, God, King of kings, Lord of lord, 
the Alpha and Omega, the Creator, ...   The testimony of Jesus
(his life, works, death, resurrection, ascension, return, etc.) 
is the spirit (essence, theme) of prophecy. Rev 19:10.

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts


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rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
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