From: jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Saved by the gun
Date: 8 Jan 1993 01:26:31 GMT
Organization: Hand Held Products, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: dale.handheld.com

In article <DENNIS_.93.0@NCSU.EDU> DENNIS_@ncsu.edu (DGA) writes:
> ##thier  backs.  Unless the fact that they were mexican made them fair game.
>                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> This is a racist remark and an insult to everyone that participates in this 
> group.  As noted below, they were robbers, the fact that they were mexican 
> is of no importance. 
> 

I was echoing the original poster's need to point out the race of the robbers,  
put the racist label where it belongs.  NOT on me.

>  
> #That fact that they were robbers made them fair game, of course.  They were
> #not turning to leave, not that it matters.  The store owner saved
> #society the expense of trying and incarcerating the punks and probably
> #put an early end to a crime spree.  Good shootin' in my book.
> 
> I totally agree.  This was not a doubtful situation.  The perps WERE 
> armed robbers.  No question.  No possible case of mistaked identity.  No 
> possible case of mistaked intent.  When they pulled guns on the store owner 
> they became fair game.  Would it have been better for him to allow them to 
> leave to rob again.  It sounds great to trust in the system to bring 
> justice.  It sounds great to everyone except the subsequent victims of 
> criminals that are not stopped.  I am sure that if Mr. De Arras knew that he 
> or someone he loved would have been gunned down by the criminals as they 
> made their escape, or pulled their next job, his attitude toward the 
> situation would be different.
> 

You know NOTHING about me, and I plan to keep it that way.  My 'feelings' do  
not get in the way of my respect for the laws of this country.  If you are  
willing to suspend due process, and declare the 'perps' guilty beyond all doubt  
based on the little blurb of text you've read, I have no doubt where the  
problem lies in our judicial system.  


> 
> Right again.  Should the next woman he terrorized and raped kill him, or 
> perhaps the next.  Perhaps subsequent victims would eventually get lucky and 
> the guy would get caught, or before she breathed her last, one of his 
> victims would get the bastard after he had applied deadly force to her.
> 
Let's kill all males at birth, since anyone of them might grow up to rape.  Or  
perhaps just castration will do.  Hell, lets kill everyone at birth, since all  
have the potential to commit a crime.  I hope you never end up where  
someone/group just decides you are 'bad' and need to be eliminated without at  
least some chance to defend yourself.

> Get real, the system has been so totally distorted by years of pro-criminal 
> courts that many unvictimized people actually believe that putting the 
> rights of criminals above the safety of society is somehow honorable and 
> helpful to society.  Even if the perps in the above cases had been brought 
> to "justice", how long would society have been safe from them?  A few years 
> at best.
> 
Then change the god damn system!!!  If you go around it, and others continue to  
follow, we soon have no hope for justice.

> We live in a situation now where defending yourself and your family is 
> criminal.  

Because of the very attitude you portray.  I am very RKBA, but having you armed  
scares me, you are too anxious to administer justice on your own.

The Lone Ranger would have pulled many years in jail for all of 
> those times he foiled robberies and kidnappings.  

First Batman gets used by the anti gun folks, and now the Lone Ranger shows up  
in the pro-gun camp.  Get a grip on reality.

> Can anyone even imagine 
> the civil rights cases that would have been brought by orgainzed 
> crime against the FBI and other law enforcement in the '30's.  We have 
> rendered ourselves defenseless against anyone willing to commit crime by 
> violence.  

Where violence is used, I have a way to defend myself.  

> That scares the H out of me!  Not only can the police not 
> protect me and mine, they are charged with making sure I can't protect 
> myself.

Not where I live, I sure can protect myself.
> 
> There are a lot of things that can be done which will help society, better 
> education, head start programs, and more.  Letting violent criminals 
> live to destroy more lives isn't going to help anyone but the criminals and 
> they don't deserve it.

Agreed, completely.  But it CANNOT be up to the individual to decide to waste  
someone JUST BECAUSE he is a worthless person, and may do further evil.  To  
defend yourself, yes.  

And I already replied that I agreed with the outcome of the cases above, my  
remaining problem was just with the glee with which the killings were reported  
and defended, giving reasons that went well beyond reasonable cause.
> 
> DGA

Jim
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