From: khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Torah is the center of every Jew? (was Orthadox Judaism and women)
Date: 24 Jan 1993 01:17:32 -0500
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: boa.cis.ohio-state.edu

In article <1993Jan20.220252.15255@netcom.com> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
>This is getting nowhere.  You define "knowledgeable" as how much Torah
>I know versus how much I know.  Since you set up the definition, you
>can then claim I don't know enough to disagree.  That is a bogus
>argument.  Look at the reality: if people are leaving the religion,
>then the religion no longer serves their needs.

Do you really think that Judaism is something you can adjust to your
needs? 

>
>You're so blinded by this O/C/R stuff that you misinterpret what I
>write.  I refer to people who leave the ranks of Judaism as drop-outs,
>e.g. people who do not identify themselves as Jewish.

Acusations, acusations... (Soon, I will have a very large collection of
the things I have been called here: closed minded, blind, ignorant....
Funny. And all I am trying to do is to argue Reform point of view... Oh,
well...) 

>
>I disagree with you completely: the problem is not the people, but
>the religion.  Otherwise, why are so many people leaving?  People
>do not leave religions that are compelling, supportive, and give
>them a sense of community and belonging.
>

Judaism is not something that is supposed to give you peace inside and
so on... That's xnity. Judaism is life and it is alife.
to tell you the truth all I wanted to do is to see the Refrom and
Conservative points of view. Well, I saw some of them and as soon as I
am trying to argue them I am being called things. I find it
contradicting that you say that you believe in Torah and at the same
time you ignore some of it, saying that it is not for our modern time.
How can you define a religion on somebody's personal view and personal
needs? 

>I contend people leave because the religion is so at odds with the
>secular world, they feel they must choose one or the other.  Only
>religions who can integrate better will survive.

You know what, that is fine with me. But why would you call this
religion Judaism? What is so Jewish about what you just wrote?

>
>>>I have no easy answers in solving the problem; I only observe that
>>>unless the religion is alive, compelling, and meaningful, your
>>>children will reject it as I have.
>>
>>You, as you state earlier, did not reject anything. All you rejected is
>>the possibility to observe, which you still have. You did not reject the
>>observance since you never really did observe. If your parents observe
>>Judaism then you would not drop out like you did. You have nothing to
>>reject and what I think is that you at least owe yourself to find out
>>what it is you are rejecting. You will probably say that you are not
>>interested or that you already know everything or enough to reject.
>>Well, fine, there is nothing else one can do. G-d gave us someting very
>>precious - the right to choose. How much one can abuse this right is
>>again one's choice.
>
>Fine.  Believe whatever you want. It doesn't change a thing.

Well, I think, it changes a lot of things. Like the validity of the
whole original statement about Orhtodoxy being sexist.

>By the way, your .signature keeps printing twice.  Is this
>your intention?
>

NO, it is just a mistake.

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )