HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Robert Coren has never been flamed
Date: 16 Oct 92 12:45:42 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <flambe@kaa.gr.osf.org> emcmanus@gr.osf.org
(Eamonn McManus) writes:

>If you had bothered to think for even a moment before you posted this,
>you would have realised that it is obviously moronic nonsense.  But
>that's just what we've come to expect from you, Coren.  Every time I
>see one of your cretinous posts I recoil in disgust, but until now I
>have refrained from saying so.  This time, however, you have gone too
>far; the smarmy self-righteousness and insensitivity of your article
>provoked a fit of uncontrollable nausea in me.  Who do you think you
>are, anyway?  Just fuck off and die, creep.

Not a bad example of the type, I'd say.

>There, how's that?

I suppose you're one of those boys who devotes a large
fraction of his or her time to finding virgins to deflower.
Poor Robert Coren, nigh-on to the purest of the pure for
*ever* so long, and now look what you've gone and done to
his *spotless* reputation.  Once a paragon, a beacon in the
wilderness, an exemplar of exemplars, the poor man is
reduced in a few short strokes of your *evil* fingers to a
Has-Been, to a faceless, soulless cabalista.

There, there, Robert, pay no attention to that mean man
(they won't even *let* him live in Ireland anymore, that's
why he's in France); you just come right over and I'll find
a lot of very clever and amusing ways to comfort you.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Xref: sparky soc.motss:42921 talk.politics.misc:51246 ca.politics:8644
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Faeries
Keywords: woods
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:06:19 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.171353.7600@wam.umd.edu> corydin@wam.umd.edu (Tim Lachine) writes:
>Could someone please enlighten me on the gay subalternateculture group called,
>I believe the Faeries.  I heard it was kind of hippyish with sympathetic
>resonances to new age. but I'm not sure.

Read the recent biography of Harry Hay, their founder, to obtain insight.
This group group draws out the spiritual side of gay culture.  Different
people have different opinions, for there is no fixed dogma.  
Harry founded one of the first homosexual organizations after WWII.
My perception is he found mainstream gay culture getting too serious and
political during the "gay liberation"  era and wanted a space to explore the
other facets of life as a gay community.

A common way of meeting is to form a Circle- two to hundreds of people.
Then we hug, dance, talk, touch, make music- whatever the mood was to form
the Circle.  Circles happen anywhere (one encircled the White House last
week), but more commonly during Gatherings, when people get together to
renew themselves.  Small Gatherings may be in people's homes for some
occasion.  There are larger Gatherings in special places around the country
at certain times of the year.  There is a large Gathering in Southern
California Thanksgiving week.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Traditional Family Values
Date: 10 Oct 92 02:46:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Oct10.024654.19293
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Oct10.012614.20350@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>I can no longer remain silent. I must rebut this vicious
>mischaracterization of Sefer Vayikra (a.k.a. Leviticus).

I spoke with Marvin, the marvelous leader of FAG, at today's No on 9
rally. I told him I'd given his movement international exposure, with
the caveat that I might have gotten the facts slightly wrong.

He said he didn't mind, because the OCA never could quite get their
facts right either.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                 Shame is playback: exposure to disapproval
From: apm@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:39:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Denholm Elliott
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.
Newsgroups: soc.motss

jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.170808.4927@quantime.co.uk> roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
>>For anyone who doesn't already know this,
>>Denholm Elliott has just died at his home in Ibiza
>>of "AIDS-related tuberculosis".
>
>I heard that on the radio this morning.  I don't know what characters he
>played, although apparently he was in a lot of movies. 
He played the butler in Trading Places, and appeared in at least one of the
E.M.Forster adaptations by Merchant/Ivory.  Also in either In Which We Serve
or The Cruel Sea (they showed a clip, but I forget which one it was), plus
many others.

>I was surprised
>that they mentioned the cause of death, especially in that much detail.  Is
>there a story behind that? 

The news reports I heard did not make much of it, beyond stating that it had
not previously been announced that he had AIDS.  FWIW, he had married twice
(the first time to Virginia McKenna, I think it was) and had a couple (?) of
children.

Andrew
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Ann Lander's YUCK!
Date: 12 Oct 1992 22:51:42 GMT
Organization: sgi
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com

Here is that  letter....


FWA
-----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Ann Landers:

I'm a 34-year-old gay male professional, in the closet and tired of it.

I watched the press coverage of the parade for Gay Pride Week, and
as usual, the men representing the gay community were sashaying 
around in wigs, dresses, chaps, and harnesses.

Like most gays, I'm thoroughly disgusted with the way we are portrayed
by Hollywood and the media. To be fair, however, a large part of the
blame must be placed on the shoulders of a small minority of the homosexual
community. I refer to the effeminate, limp-wristed, nasal-voiced queens
who jump in front of the cameras and make a spectacle of themselves.

Those weirdos do not represent me or any of my gay friends. Moreover,
they are the reason homosexuals are considered freaks and "queers"
and must hide their sexuality. Small wonder average people are
reluctant to give gays equal rights. They don't  want men who wear wigs,
dresses and high heels teaching their kids and fighting in their country's
army. And who can blame them?

Stable people, gay and straight, do not flaunt their sexuality and private
lives. So please, "girls," keep it in the bedroom and let the rest of us be
judged for who we are and not by the distorted image you portray.
You deny all of us the opportunity to be accepted as decent, constructive,
members of the community - which we are. -
Sabotaged in Calgary
From: maffray@imag.fr (Frederic Maffray)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Out in a snap (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 11 Oct 92 20:09:31 GMT
Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France

In article <1992Oct5.210449.10346@uoft02.utoledo.edu> gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart) writes:
#In article <1992Oct2.210635.22012@panix.com>, ro@panix.com (r l reid) writes:
#> When I wear a white shirt, I WEAR it), there's
#> nothing like 35% poly - when the dryer stops, you pull it out,
#> give it a quick *SNAP*, hang it, and an hour later the blessed
#> thing has ironed itself!
#
#     *SNAP* queens & mixed fibers, Ooooooooh what a combo!

"Fruits and Fibers"?

---
Frederic Christian Maffray
Certain fairy charms differ.
From: stine@Stars.Reston.Unisys.COM (John P. Stine x7381)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Hands Around the White House
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:56:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: aviary.1765
Reply-To: stine@aviary.UUCP (John P. Stine)
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: na
Organization: Paramax Systems Corporation, Reston, VA

On Monday, October 12, 1992, there was a huge turnout for Hands
Around the White House.  Over 5000 people showed up.  We ended up
encircling the entire block containing the White House with three
rings of people, all holding hands.  We wrapped the White House
with over 600 feet of red ribbon.

This demonstration was a culmination of events centered around
the display of the AIDS Memorial Quilt on the west side of the
Mall over the weekend.  Over 140,000 people came to see the
Quilt.  It was my first time to see the quilt, and it left
me emotionally exhausted (at best).  After my tears dried,
I was left angry - and I found the Hands action to be an
excellent venue to vent my anger, my frustration, my
outrage.

The protest was organized by ACT-UP/DC, and was carried out very
well.  The DC police department co-operated admirably - some were
even applauding as we completed the third ring.  My thanks to all 
those on the net who lent their hands to this action.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
             John P. Stine  (stine@stars.reston.unisys.com)

   The opinions expressed here certainly don't represent those of my
   employer...but I'm working on it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 10 Oct 1992 13:11:33 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <Bvx679.FJu@unix.amherst.edu> 
twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

> Of the few silent films I've seen, "distanced" is not how I'd
> characterize their relationship to me.  While I do plead guilty to
> being a member of the MTV generation 

You poor disadvantaged little thing.

> (and thus go through a period of
> internal adjustment every time I watch a silent film), these films
> tend to leave me with a far more lasting impression than the "talkies"
> do.  

I feel the same way and thank my lucky stars (I'm a Sagittarius,
but haven't any idea where my Venus or Neptune are) that I live
4 blocks away from the only movie theater in the United States
that shows nothing but silent films.  And, as has to be repeated
over and over and over, silent films are not meant to be watched
in silence.  The Silent Movie either hires people to come in and
accompany the films on an organ (and they get really good people
for this, too), or they prepare taped soundtracks (heavy on the
Prokofiev and Tchaikovsky).

> Perhaps it's because of the lack of sound, but I really think
> that it was the different cinematic language that had to be invented,
> as you say.  In any case, I tend to come away feeling enraptured
> rather than alienated.  In David's case, it might well be simply the
> cultural context of THE BLUE ANGEL which led him to feel distanced.

Perhaps it was the cultural context.  Well, if you want to be
enraptured by a film, you really do owe it to yourself to see
_The Passion of Joan of Arc_, which I mentioned in my previous
article.  It's not a perfect movie -- some of it is actually
kind of tedious -- but when it works (about 90% of the time)
it is AMAZING.  The film is about the last day in Joan of Arc's
life.  Joan is played by Renee Falconetti in what was her only
film appearance, and I have never seen such acting in a film.  
The film's visual texture is gorgeous, but then there are those
incredibly forceful, shocking close-ups of Falconetti's face, 
and...well, you really should see it if it ever turns up on a 
film society program near you.

Arne
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:53:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct13.165328.6397
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Oct13.154734.3869@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
>I thought I would just share this with you ...
>} Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 11:38:32 EDT
>} From: bfried@attmail.att.com (Burton D Fried)
>} To: lovegod@wam.umd.edu
>} You're light skinned because your great great grandmother probably
>} asked her master to make her feel good!
>Boys and Girls, this problem is very real.

Thanks.  And to think that that this creep had to _pay_ $$$
to send such a note.

No one I respect here, Donald, has said that it's not real.
No one's telling you to get used to it or hate it any less.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: enough already.
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:21:13 GMT
Organization: The Autodesk Menagerie - Housecat Division

In article <1992Oct5.162806.17972@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct1.231600.18181@macc.wisc.edu>
>>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>>In article <1992Oct1.225650.3389@PacBell.COM>
>>>rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>>>Oh!  OK.  Speaking of blessed, did I ever tell you any of my
>>>altar-boy stories...?
>>
>>Well, I don't think you have, but I'm sure you were altered
>>by the experiences.
>
>Incensed, actually -- *very* cross.


I'm not saint this is a bad idea, but I just wonder if the stories told
would holy[d] water. I hope nun of this gets out of hand and people
start monk-eying around and acting like naves. Don't feel priest for
time in responding, just to show everyone you are s-martyr than they
are.

ER


--

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I just couldn't take the green brain carpet, so I had to kill it."
					-R. Hep
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Fresh from the oven
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 18:31:31 GMT


In article <5383@rosie.NeXT.COM> ltucker@next.com writes:

What I thought was one of the best and most interesting
postings I've read in a long time.  Thank you very much.

Uncharacteristic of me, I know, but I'll limit myself to two
comments.

>Why am I posting all of this?   Why does the net need yet another  
>coming out story?   It doesn't necessarily.  However, thanks to the  
>ability to meet one person at work who was identifiably gay, I am now a  
>much healthier person.  

Says it all.  It's important because all the other ones
there have ever been are long since expired on 99.9% of the
machines, and perhaps this very one will make the difference
in someone's life that an earlier one made in yours.

>I  
>look forward to contributing (in a very small way).

You've already done so in a big way, a very big way, I
think.  Welcome to our midst.
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: waveland@carson.u.washington.edu (Eric Holeman)
Subject: Re: Ann Lander's YUCK!
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:39:19 GMT

In article <ldk0buINNn6g@spim.mti.sgi.com> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com
   (Jeff Dauber) writes:


>Here is that  letter....

Ann's coffee was obviously not its usual, aromatic self, so I've done
her the favor of writing what she should have:  

>I'm a 34-year-old gay male professional, in the closet and tired of it.

>I watched the press coverage of the parade for Gay Pride Week, and
>as usual, the men representing the gay community were sashaying 
>around in wigs, dresses, chaps, and harnesses.

Dear Whining Closet Case: 

You seemed to have missed several clue buses.  Let me fill you in.  

First, one should no more trust print or broadcast media for coverage 
of gay events than for coverage of presidential elections.  As anyone 
who's been to a gay parade knows, what one sees there is quite different
from what you see on the evening news.  Oh sure, the drag queens and 
the leatherpeople are there, all right, but the more unassuming types 
outnumber them by at least ten to one.  The camera shows what it wants, 
honey.  Of course, you could always try and dilute the flamboyant types 
even more if you're that concerned about it.  Or did you have to wash 
your hair that day?  

Secondly, so the fuck what?  Sound like you're just a wee bit too proud 
of not being a drag queen or leather fag.  Hate to be the one to 
tell you this, but neither God nor Ann give medals being straight 
acting.  If you're so proud of what you are, then get your sorry ass 
out there next June, and stop pissing and moaning about what other 
folks do.  

Lastly, your closet is your problem.  If you want out, get out.  
If not, stay in and shut up.  But know this:  when you do come out,
any acceptance you get will be there because of the dykes, fags, sissies, 
lezbos, drag queens, and everyone else that went before you, taking far
more heat than your straight-acting ass will ever see.  Be sure and 
thank them on your way out.   

In short, toots, Ann thinks you should spend less time fretting 
over other fags and more time looking at yourself.
From: tdober@llnl.gov (TDO)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Intel Job Opening (Nomad, read this)
Date: 17 Oct 92 02:24:43 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Distribution: na
Organization: llnl

In article <44249@ogicse.ogi.edu>, markm@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Mark
Morrissey) wrote:
> 
> Okay, for once I will be optimistic...
> 
> What with Measure 9 apparantly going down (as will Bush), [...]
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^
*Really*? Do you know under what circumstances he will...you
know...ahhh..."go down"? And how *did* you ever find out? And *why* have
you been keeping it a secret from *us*, your 70,000 closest friends?!!

That's OK, dear, we'll call the Enquirer for you right away....

I can see the headlines now (accompanied by incriminating photos, of course
[sounds of retching are heard in the background at the mere thought]),
"Bush Going Down", "Bush Caught In Love Nest With Football Team", "Scandal
Rocks The Nation As Bush Comes Out", etc., etc.

[shudder] Could we maybe give him back?


> Mark Morrissey


TDO
--
#include "StdDisclaimer.h"

Pain, like time, is going to come on regardless. Question is, what glorious
moments can you win from life in addition to the pain? -- Lois McMaster
Bujold, _Barrayar_
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: drollin@seq.uncwil.edu (David A. Rollins)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:00:21 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:


>Love you too, David.  I promise to hold you in the same esteem unless
>you show me otherwise.

I expect this from you. You are a hypocrit in the literal sense of the
word.

Your feelings got hurt, so you put up a shield rather than commit to
self-reflection to determine if someone could possibly be trying to
help you, not bring you down.

Get a reality check.

-- 
David Rollins                 |  I OWN A COMMODORE/AMIGA 2000.  
Email: drollin@seq.uncwil.edu |  I'M GOOD ENOUGH. I'M SMART ENOUGH,
Voice: 919-763-4115           |  AND DOGGONE IT, PEOPLE LIKE ME!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:24:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.044834.19221@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess 
Anderson) writes:
>
>>No exact equivalent in English of "n'est-ce pas", I think. 
>
>Wrote an opera, right?
>
>Seems about right, n'est-ce pas?

In that case.  I'm not sure whther you can *always* translate it as
"right", and it was the general case I was thinking of.  English sometimes
requires a better knowledge of the pronoun - "didn't he" vs. "didn't they".
If you want ambiguity, not to mention a touch of pretentiousness, n'est-ce
pas is better. 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:34:18 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <ld8v2tINNmq8@spim.mti.sgi.com>
dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:

>It is Jezebel.  There is no "i" in the word. 

Jeff, my dearest, freshly among us once again after a long
hiatus, you've missed many a fine specimen from the e-pen
of Melmac Malaprop.  Dealing with him is like being pecked
to death by a duck.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Darrell Yates Rist
Date: 15 Oct 1992 06:18:31 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu

h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair) writes:

>Did anybody see the article in the Nation (Octobe 19) by Darrell
>Yates Rist?  "Born Gay?"  He criticizes the people who believe in
>biological theories about sexual orientation.

>If you read the article, what did you think?

Yes, I read it.  The topic has been bandied about in various threads 
on motss over the last couple of months although in a more tangential 
way.  Frankly, I believe the whole thing is a false dichotomy.  Of 
course, the state should not have any jurisdiction over individuals' 
consensual sexual activity or affectional choices nor legislate in 
favor of one kind of relationship vs. another.  However, this does not
mean that there cannot be fundamental physiological or biochemical 
causes for sexual behavior.  In fact, it is arguable that there must be
at least some biochemical (hormonal) cause.  To proclaim 
that this is not possible, as it seems to me Rist does, strikes 
me as folly and demonstrates the profound lack of understanding of the 
study of nature which is currently all too prevalent.

It has only been a few short years when depression and schizophrenia 
were veiwed as mental diseases that were not amenable to 
pharmacological treatment because they arose from some higher order 
function, the mind.  Now we find that many suffering from these 
afflictions can be treated by drugs and that the problems arise from 
chemical malfunctions in specific regions of the brain.  It is not at 
all inconceivable that nature has a strong role in gender preference.

What sets off Rist and others is that, if this is true, that society 
will try to "correct" the problem.  That is a valid concern.  But the 
fact that society may want to alter an individual's sexual preference 
should not be confused with whether such preference is a result of, 
say, the genetics of that person.  The latter may well be true.  The 
former is a question of ethics and the sophistication of the society. 
In reading Rist there is the impression that he fears the "eugenic" 
response of society and therefore rejects the possibility of a strong 
biological role.  The question which I feel he should have addressed 
is whether such research should be pursued.  What he appeared to do 
instead was offer scientifically unconvincing counterarguments to the 
hypothesis of biological determination of gender preference.

But then, The Nation is a journal of *political* opinion.

Colburn Eigen                                  H|u> = E|u>