HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: batie@agora.rain.com (Alan Batie)
Subject: Re: Proposal for pnw.motss
Keywords: new newsgroup motss for pnw
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Distribution: pnw
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 06:33:05 GMT

del@fnx.uucp (Dag Erik Lindberg) writes:
>I would prefer to see any relevant
>issues discussed in pnw.general until such time as there is either
>... b) some other overriding
>reason why the traffic is not appropriate for the pnw.general group.

There are those who find anything relating to the topic offensive.  There's
no reason to subject them to these articles.  Also, in a lot of ways, the
net is a form of virtual reality.  soc.motss, and pnw.motss, if created,
are a sort of family environment.  Holding discussions in pnw.general
would be sort of like discussing family matters at a town meeting.
-- 
Alan Batie                               \
batie@agora.rain.com                      \       Vote NO on Discrimination
+1 503 452-0960                          / \      Vote NO on 9!
45 28 59 N / 122 43 20 W / 440' MSL     /   \
From: earl@phred.UUCP (choo choo earl)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Oregon Grotto Store
Keywords: information required
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:23:51 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Physio Control Corp., Seattle WA

Hi there.
I'm looking for the address/phone number of the "Oregon Grotto Store".  It
carries equipment and supplies for spelunking (caving).  I would assume
it is located in Oregon, but I don't know where.  I can be reached via email
at earl@phred.uucp or call me at (800) 426-8047.  If you know of other places
that carry these kind of things it would be nice to know.
Thanks a lot.  I forgot, if you call, my extension is 4255.
Bye

-- 
DIG A DUCK DIG A DUCK DIG A GEODUCK DIG A DUCK DIG A GEODUCK DIG A DUCK A DAY
earl@phred      Physio Control Corp.   Redmond Wa   (206)867-4255
I find when I work on the computer too long I have this uncontrolable
urge to eat Twinkies, drink Coke, and wear funny sandals.
From: john@amc.com (John Sambrook)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Proposal for pnw.motss
Keywords: new newsgroup motss for pnw
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:31:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: amc.1992Oct2.193143.8265
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <1992Oct1.180629.21208@fnx.uucp> del@fnx.uucp (Dag Erik Lindberg) writes:
>In <1992Sep30.165819.6672@xzact.com> minerva@xzact.COM (Darci L. Chapman) writes:
>>Estimated traffic will average around 5 messages/day, based on the
>>traffic on the pdx-motss mailing list.  Traffic may be a little higher 
>>for the next few months as Oregon's Measure 9 battle, and similar 
>>efforts getting underway in Washington, probably will be a frequent 
>>topic of discussion.
>
>Why is this group needed?  Is there some reason why the minimal traffic
>couldn't be supported in pnw.general?   It's not like pnw.general is
>flooded with new messages every day.  I would prefer to see any relevant
>issues discussed in pnw.general until such time as there is either
>a) sufficient traffic to justify a new group b) some other overriding
>reason why the traffic is not appropriate for the pnw.general group.

Volume can be a reason to create a newgroup, but it isn't the only
reason for creating one, nor is volume a necessary precondition.  What
matters, according to the accepted rules, is that you be able to
convince sufficient people to vote for your proposed group.

For example comp.lang.lisp.mcl isn't a high-traffic newsgroup, but you
can bet that the articles posted to it pertain to MCL, and that the
people reading the group like having it.  By your minimum-volume
argument, articles that normally would be posted to comp.lang.lisp.mcl
would probably wind up in comp.ten-to-twenty-articles-per-day or some
such.

If you can get enough people to vote for creating your group, as per
the conventional rules, then I think you have done all you have to do
to justify creating the group.
-- 
John Sambrook                             DNS: john@amc.com
Applied Microsystems Corporation	 UUCP: amc-gw!john
Redmond, Washington  98073               Dial: (206) 882-2000 ext. 630
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: del@fnx.uucp (Dag Erik Lindberg)
Subject: Re: Proposal for pnw.motss
Organization: I/Ovations
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 07:55:05 GMT

In <1992Oct5.045443.1553@seanews.akita.com> billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick) writes:

>I propose that we adopt a protocol similar to the mainstream Usenet
>heirarchy, adapted for the fewer readers of the pnw newsgroups.
>Specifically that votes be held according to the newsgroup creation
>guidelines and that instead of the 100 votes with a 2/3 majority we
>use 25 votes with a 2/3 majority.

>Comments?

I think it's sad that we have to go to a formal procedure, but if indeed
we must, this one sounds reasonable.

-- 
del AKA Erik Lindberg                             uunet!pilchuck!fnx!del
                          Who is John Galt?
From: Scotty@freemf.UUCP (Scotty)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Talk Radio
Distribution: world
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:26:15 PDT
Organization: Not an Organization

  Does anyone know why Bill Gallant's talk show is gone?(not that I miss it
or anything  ;')  Looks like he's just a news reader in that slot now.  Was
it bad ratings?

  I miss Bruce William's show - I live in the Olympia area, and I've been
looking for it since it was taken off of KIRO...  *(Scotty)*

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

John (Scotty) Freeland  ---  scotty@freemf.eskimo.celestial.com
From: slh@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Protest Vote '92  (Was: Don't waste your vote on Bush or Clinton)
Date: 6 Oct 92 02:19:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: gibdo.1992Oct06.021322.20515
Organization: NONE

In article <43674@ogicse.ogi.edu> kimf@ogicse.ogi.edu (Kim Flowers) writes:
>
>Therefore we should stop trying to ban guns, and ban gun manufacturing!
>It's a little easier to find a gun factory than a gun.
>
	In all countries?
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Creation (Was Proposal for pnw.motss)
Organization: SEANEWS - Seattle Public Access News & Mail
Distribution: pnw
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:52:45 GMT

In article <BvpxMs.Gxo@ars2.uucp> briank@ars2.uucp (D. Brian Kimmel) writes:
>In <1992Oct5.045443.1553@seanews.akita.com> billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick) writes:
>>I propose that we adopt a protocol similar to the mainstream Usenet
>>heirarchy, adapted for the fewer readers of the pnw newsgroups.
>>Specifically that votes be held according to the newsgroup creation
>>guidelines and that instead of the 100 votes with a 2/3 majority we
>>use 25 votes with a 2/3 majority.
>
>I think this is overkill, requiring 25 votes.
> [method deleted]
>Thus with 4% of the computer population (based on uucp maps) this proposal
>would require 25% of the worldwide vote.
>
>This seems to me to be much too restrictive.
>
>As I see it, the purpose of news is to allow a free flow of information
>and ideas between people with similar interests/needs.  Balanced
>against this need/desire for free information flow is the requirement to
>keep the news system manageable.
>
>I would therefore offer this counter proposal:
>    In the seattle and pnw local heirarchy a newsgroup may be created
>    *except* if at least 50% of the people voting object and at least
>    5 people vote.  

The reason for a vote *is not* to see if anyone objects -- it's to make
sure there is sufficient interest to create a group.  Otherwise e-mail
is a better alternative.

A while ago someone did some analysis for the mainstream Usenet
heirarchy that the breakeven point was 100 readers.  That is, once
100 people joined a mailing list it was cheaper and more efficient
to make it a newsgroup.  This was when the main links were 2,400 bps.

I simply made the assumption that people transfering news are now
using at least 9,600 bps modems (true) and that the set of pnw
systems is about the same size as the entire Usenet at the time
(close enough).

Based on this, my proposal (25 votes, 2/3 majority) appears to be
excessively oriented towards creating newsgroups.  The more
accurate parallel would be EdM's proposal, with a minimum of 25
votes *for*, with the "for" votes being a 2/3's majority.

The point remains that the Usenet group creation process is not
intended to make sure *someone* is interested, it's intended to
make sure *enough* people are interested.

Bill
-- 
SEANEWS  []  Seattle News + Mail  []  Public Access  []  +1 206 937 9529
E-mail for PGP key.   MD5 (no sigs) is: 8e253e95133365a292261c7d0da58bcb
From: witters@tc.fluke.COM (John Witters)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: quote of the day
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:38:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: tc.1992Sep28.163850.21685
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

In article <MS-C.717452335.1103527590.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:
>	Whenever the left and the right agree wholeheartedly
>	about any issue, the strong likelihood is that an
>	amazing disaster is about to be jointly sponsored.
>	That was true of the dumping of tens of thousands of
>	mental patients on the streets of our cities.  The
>	right wanted to save money by closing asylums.  The
>	left imagined it was freeing snake-pit prisoners of
>	the psychiatric bureaucracy.  Working together, they
>	created much of the urban disaster that goes under
>	the label of `homelessness.'
>					-- John Leo

Aha!  Another John Leo fan!

I guess this is another example of "I'm from the government, and I'm here to
help you."

Of course, to pick nits, the hope was to shut down the huge impersonal mental
institutions of the '50s, (many of which were indeed snake pits) in favor of
small local clinics and halfway houses that could provide more personal care.
Of course, lots of small clinics would have been even more expensive than
fewer big ones, so the small ones never got funded.  I suspect that if the
small ones were built, we'd have a lot of little snake pits now.

Ever see "Titticut Follies," a documentary about a state hospital for the
criminally insane?  It was banned in the U.S. for years.  I had to close my
eyes through much of the movie.  I thought such places existed only in the
(former) Soviet Union.  Ugh.

-John
-- 
    *  *  *		John Witters			voice:	(206) 356-5274
  *  \      *		John Fluke Mfg. Co. Inc.
 *    \      *		P.O.B. 9090 M/S 241F		fax:	(206) 356-5116
*   DRIVING   *		Everett, Washington  98206-9090	     or (206) 356-5174
 *      \    *
  *      \  *		domain:	witters@tc.fluke.COM
    *  *  *		ARPA:	fluke!witters@uw-beaver.ARPA
			uucp:	{uunet,sun,microsoft,uw-beaver}!fluke!witters
Hi! I'm a .signature virus!  Add me to your .signature and join in the fun!
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: jewell@Data-IO.COM (Cal Jewell)
Subject: Re: Tell Viacom Cable to add the SCI-FI Channel
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Distribution: pnw
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:27:20 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.000053.7136@tera.com> wendyt@tera.com writes:
#Jim Lubin suggests we call Viacom to request the Sci-Fi Channel.
#Sounds fine, but what will they remove?  If I could get them to
#dump Channel 34 (all religion, all the time)

I'd miss God TV. I like watching the Power Team (steroid freaks for
Jesus) bust baseball bats and tear phone books and rip apart handcuffs
and read the Bible. I'd also miss Benny what's-his-name. This guy
gives new meaning to charismatic faithhealing. Amazing stuff.

#or Channel 33 (shop #till long after you drop)

Wouldn't miss this at all. Unfortunately, QVC (or whoever they are)
pays Viacom/TCI/et al to carry the channel. There's not a chance in
hell that the Cable Co. will drop QVC to pick up SciFi or WGN, which 
they'd have to pay for.

#or even Channel 29 (badly-made, out-of- #focus local access)

Until the laws get changed, public access is the law of the land.
Cable companies are required to offer production facilities to any
cable subscriber and to air the resulting programs unedited and 
uncensored. Besides, where else would you see Sister Paula? Amazing
stuff.

#I'd be happy, but I don't want to lose anything
#interesting, and I'm afraid they'd dump Channel 32 (Canadian TV,
#on those rare occasions when it hasn't been blacked out) or Channel
#30 (second PBS option -- probably the most likely to go).

I'd be pissed if they dropped Canadian TV from their menu. I enjoy 
watching the Canadian view of American events. It's a view of things
we don't often see here in the states. Besides, their hockey and
curling coverage is excellent.

#
#Anybody know what they might drop?  Somehow I doubt it would be 34.
#Maybe if we all promised to go to the church of their choice 34 would
#go away.

Does that involve a "love gift"? :-) 

-- 
Cal...                        "By analysis of usenet source, 
                               the hardest part of C to use 
 jewell@Data-IO.COM            is the comment."
 ...!uunet!pilchuck!jewell       -- bill davidsen (davidsen@crd.ge.com)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele)
Subject: Re: Tell Viacom Cable to add the SCI-FI Channel
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:25:18 GMT

>wendyt@tera.com (Wendy Thrash) writes:

>> Jim Lubin suggests we call Viacom to request the Sci-Fi Channel.

The all-advertising channel?  I tried to watch some of the shows, but it
seemed like they were stopping every 10 minutes to run more commercials.
The commercials seemed very intrusive, but I don't watch much network TV
so maybe they're only running the normal amount.  But it was annoying
enough that I won't be a regular viewer.

I was surprised, though.  The paper had an article on how the president
of the company expected to lose money for several years.  Seems like
they'd already done a pretty good job of lining up advertisers ...
From: billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Proposal for pnw.motss
Date: 5 Oct 92 04:54:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: seanews.1992Oct5.045443.1553
Organization: SEANEWS - Seattle Public Access News & Mail

In article <BvMCLw.AtK@agora.rain.com> rickc@agora.rain.com (Rick Coates) writes:
>I understand the concern about too many pnw groups (agora receives all
>of five, three of which even have postings), but, ya know, it *could*
>be deleted, if necessary.
>
>Let's give it a shot.

This seems to have turned into a holy war.  It's OK with me -- so at
least SEANEWS will carry it.

The discussion here has brought up once again that there isn't a method
of adding and deleting regional newsgroups.

I propose that we adopt a protocol similar to the mainstream Usenet
heirarchy, adapted for the fewer readers of the pnw newsgroups.
Specifically that votes be held according to the newsgroup creation
guidelines and that instead of the 100 votes with a 2/3 majority we
use 25 votes with a 2/3 majority.

Comments?

Bill
-- 
SEANEWS  []  Seattle News + Mail  []  Public Access  []  +1 206 937 9529
E-mail for PGP key.   MD5 (no sigs) is: 8e253e95133365a292261c7d0da58bcb
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Subject: Re: Proposal for pnw.motss
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 17:47:12 GMT

georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly) writes:

>bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick) writes:
>) Additionally, groups which are 'unproven' also may use the mail-list
>) format which allows people to communicate by posting to a mail address
>) which is then forwarded to the subscribership.

>We already have several mailing lists and have demonstrated to
>our own satisfaction that there is a desire and need for
>pnw.motss.  The pdx-motss mailing list has over 30 members. 

Further, you have to know the mailing list exists before you can subscribe.
For some time I was unaware of the existance of the mailing list, whereas
I would have immediately recognized and subscribed to a pnw.motss newsgroup.

One of the hurdles that GLB people face is not knowing where to turn
for support.  This requires support mechanisms to make their presence
*visible*.  In this respect a newsgroup is a better alternative than a
mailing list.

>I post several messages to soc.motss and soc.bi every month
>with a PNW distribution.  If there were a pnw.motss, I would
>post those messages there.

Indeed.  soc.motss is way overkill for regional concerns, but if you
want to make a regional motss announcement it will reach people much
more effectively than a mailing list.  pnw.general is totally inappropriate,
not only because of subject material but because it's not thought of
as a venue of motss-related information.  Because my time for reading
news is limited, I do not routinely read pnw.general.  In fact, the only
reason I knew this discussion was taking place is because I finally found
out about, and subscribed to the mailing list.

>I share Mark Morrissey's opinion that the traffic will be closer
>to 20 messages per day.  The combined traffic of the pdx-motss
>and Microsoft mailing lists alone would run to more than that.

Agreed.  I've already made my argument that pnw.motss would have
greater participation than the mailing list because of its greater
visibility.  This means more traffic.

It's not like this is a zero-sum game where creation of pnw.motss
would mean some other newsgroup would have to go to make room for
it.  If the interest is there, and it addresses a need that isn't being
effectively served through existing mechanisms, the group should
be created.

-- 
Brent Capps           | 
bcapps@agora.rain.com | Know what to kiss, and when.
bcapps@atlastele.com  |
Xref: sparky pnw.general:2238 alt.politics.elections:15048
From: jp@fnx.uucp (Jack Pospyhala)
Newsgroups: pnw.general,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Protest Vote '92 (Was: Don't waste your vote on Bush or Clinton)
Date: 3 Oct 92 18:14:11 GMT
Organization: I/Ovations

In <1992Oct3.165759.329@splat.hf.intel.com> guest@splat.hf.intel.com (subnet guest) writes:

>Prohibition of guns would be just as effective as the prohibition of 
>alcohol was earlier this century or the prohibition of (some) drugs
>is now.  Criminals, by definition, do not respect laws.  How many times
>must this lesson be repeated before it sinks in to the 'legislate
>away society's problems' crowd?  How can we redirect the focus of

One need only look at Los Angeles to see the validity of what you say.
L.A. has one of the highest armed-crime problems in the U.S., combined
with some of the most stringent gun control in the country.

-- 
Jack Pospyhala                                    uunet!pilchuck!fnx!jp
There is no gravity, the world sucks...
From: jimc@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Jim Cathey)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: WANTED: DOG CRATE
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:52:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: tau-ceti.2710
Distribution: pnw
Organization: ISC - Bunker Ramo, Spokane, WA

In article <3780@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> small@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Peter Small) writes:
>Wanted:   Dog Crate, medium size.

Is Husky stadium too big?

-- 
+----------------+
! II      CCCCCC !  Jim Cathey
! II  SSSSCC     !  ISC-Bunker Ramo
! II      CC     !  TAF-C8;  Spokane, WA  99220
! IISSSS  CC     !  UUCP: uunet!isc-br!jimc (jimc@isc-br.isc-br.com)
! II      CCCCCC !  (509) 927-5757
+----------------+
			"PC's --- the junk bonds of the computer industry"
From: osiris@halcyon.com (J.David Ruggiero)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Proposal for pnw.motss
Date: 7 Oct 92 01:45:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: nwnexus.1992Oct7.014509.3999
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service

In article <1992Oct6.214807.23341@nwnexus.WA.COM> edm@halcyon.com (Ed Morin) writes:
>
>I would propose 2/3 majority of the votes received with a minimum of
>25 votes being in that majority (or a minimum of ~37 total votes if
>you would rather look at it that way).

It's not often I find myself agreeing with Ed Morin :), but I think this is
a good, fair, and workable proposal.

David
-- 
David Ruggiero  (osiris@halcyon.com)      Seattle, WA
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: davidst@microsoft.com (David Steckler)
Subject: Re: Protest Vote '92  (Was: Don't waste your vote on Bush or Clinton)
Date: 06 Oct 92 16:38:55 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <43674@ogicse.ogi.edu> kimf@ogicse.ogi.edu (Kim Flowers) writes:
>In article <1992Oct05.143015.13877@microsoft.com> davidst@microsoft.com (David Steckler) writes:
>>	...
>>Because guns are so small and easy to make, gun control laws only effect
>>those who choose to obey the laws. Washington DC, NY NY and LA have some
>>of the toughest gun control laws on the books - any questions?
>
>Therefore we should stop trying to ban guns, and ban gun manufacturing!
>It's a little easier to find a gun factory than a gun.
>

You missed my point. Let's say we agreed that getting rid of all guns would
be a "Good Thing". So we shut down all gun manufacturers. Then we, somehow
stop all guns from enterring the country (hmmm...how well's that war on
drugs going?). But even then, any 12-year-old with access to a hardware
store can build a gun. You just take a pipe, some liquid steel...and ammunition
is even easier.

So. At that point we have all the gangs running around armed and all law 
abiding citizens (that's you and me, I assume) unable to do anything other 
than dial 911 and wait 15 minutes for the police to show up while your
wife's being raped and you children are being murdered. Great. Just Great.

*Many* studies, even those done by gun control groups, have shown that a
criminal's biggest fear is not the police, not prison, not other criminals.
Their biggest fear is armed victims. If guns are outlawed then only outlaws
will have guns...think about that a minute: do we _really_ want a world where
the criminals are the only ones with weapons?

	...Dave
From: minerva@xzact.COM (Darci L. Chapman)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Proposal for pnw.motss
Keywords: new newsgroup motss for pnw
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:58:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: xzact.1992Sep30.165819.6672
Followup-To: pnw.general
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Xzact Solutions, Inc.




There is a group of us that would like to see the creation of pnw.motss.

This group would be similar to the newsgroups soc.motss, ba.motss, and 
ne.motss (groups for positive discussion of lebian/bi/gay issues 
internationally and regionally) and to the currently existing Portland 
area mailing list (pdx-motss).

Pnw.motss (motss = members of the same sex) will be a forum for the 
discussion of issues specific to lesbians, bisexuals, and gay men of 
the Pacific Northwest. As in other *.motss groups, pnw.motss will not
be for homophobic discussions or attacks.

Since we know of no formal policy for pnw newsgroup creation and unless 
there are strenuous objections, a newgroup with a pnw distribution 
will be issued on October 14, giving a roughly two week discussion 
period. If someone knows of a policy on such things, we'll be happy 
to follow it if they'll send it to me.

Estimated traffic will average around 5 messages/day, based on the
traffic on the pdx-motss mailing list.  Traffic may be a little higher 
for the next few months as Oregon's Measure 9 battle, and similar 
efforts getting underway in Washington, probably will be a frequent 
topic of discussion.

Sincerely,

Darci L. Chapman, X Window System Consultant
-- 
Oh, life is bigger, it's bigger than you      here at last: minerva@xzact.com
    and you are not me...                                 uunet!xzact!minerva
I think I thought I saw you try                           nosun!xzact!minerva
    Oh, no, that was just a dream   -rem                 
Newsgroups: pnw.general,seattle.general
From: eris@fluke.tc.fluke.com (Chris Beckmeyer)
Subject: EURO-VIDEO
Keywords: PAL-to-US Transfer
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: pnw
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:30:55 GMT

To the person who was looking for a place to get Euro-vid transferred to
US format:

If you find such a place, please let me know where it is.  I'll have the
reverse problem in the spring trying to get a US wedding video transferred to
PAL for relatives in Switzerland.  So far, I'm told that the procedure is so
complicated and expensive that no one does it.

Thanks-

Chris



Newsgroups: pnw.general