HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade)
Subject: Re: Idle amusements...
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:45:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.165311.18944@nb.rockwell.com> guthrie@nb.rockwell.com (Karen Guthrie) writes:
>
>In article <2531@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM>, sg@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM (Susanne Gilliam) writes:
>> 
>>   My kids have recently spent 3 evenings in a row having me "paint" their
>> toenails with washable markers.  They select the color, and I do one nail
>> on each foot with it, switch kids, and repeat the process, over, and over
>> and over.  It is definately what I'd call a low-difficulty sure fire
>> entertainment, and it washes off (some take longer than others to come
>> off; highlighters take the longest).  Pretty funny too, as they pick the
>> most outrageous colors!  By the way, they are a 2.5 year old girl and
>> a 5.5 year old boy who happily hasn't yet learned that necklaces and 
>> nail color are just for girls...
>>  
>> 					Susanne Gilliam
>My daughter likes me to draw pictures on her with the washable markers
>and then she goes into the bathroom and looks at them in the mirror.
>Then it is off to the tub.
>
>Karen

Well, in our case, Sabrina likes to draw pictures on herself!  Sort
of a body art concept.  I considered it a victory when I convinced
her to use only the washable markers.

Elise.
From: judyd@aspen.CNA.TEK.COM (Judy E. Drake)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Pain Relief in Labor: Ben's Reply
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:21:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: master.3568
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

In article <14SEP199223482636@trentu.ca> bwolfe@trentu.ca (BEN WOLFE) writes:
>In article <3564@master.CNA.TEK.COM>, judyd@aspen.CNA.TEK.COM (Judy E.
>Drake) writes:
>
>> Ben, I thought our email discussion had made it clear, it was your
>> _misinterpretation_ of my statement that set you off.
>
>Judy, I thought our e-mail discussion had made it clear that your
>original statement was, to use your word, "glib", and wide open to
>misinterpretation. In any case, I think that requoting in a summation

Yet you _did_ misinterpret what I said, and knew you had when you
posted your second article.

>post under the heading "RECAP" is a pretty reasonable thing to do.

Many readers here have taken the time to inform you (myself by email,
others by posting) that we found your articles to be preachy, know-it-all,
biased, and quite possibly inaccurate.  Yet, after KNOWING you 
misinterpreted my statement, you used it again as a starting point
to repeat what you said, _without_ informing anyone of what you knew
by then, that your initial post was triggered by an inaccurate
perception of my words.  A misperception, I might add, that was _not_
universal.

Ben, you can post whatever you like here, but I found it very offensive
to see my words misused intentionally the way you did in your second post.
Labeling that second post as a "recap" does not excuse that action.

I do not like to waste net bandwidth on a discussion of this nature, 
and that is why I replied to Ben's first post by email.  However, his 
public, intentional misuse of my personal sentiments was extremely
offensive to me.

Please make any followups to this particular post by email.

Judy Drake
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: vrs0@bunny.gte.com (V. Stern)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Cute Things They Do (21 months)
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:11:56 GMT
Organization: GTEL

In article <185r1iINN2gg@network.ucsd.edu> dlin@weber.ucsd.edu (Diane Lin) 
writes:
>  Both boys reached the car simultaneously, with
> me right behind, giving Dylan the umpteenth sermon on how the toy
> was not his and that he would have to take turns riding it.  The
> boys looked at each other very seriously, as if they were about to
> wrestle over ownership.  Then, out of the blue, they leaned towards
> each other and *kissed*!

My son is also 21 months.  Yesterday he was at a neighbor's house with two 
other little boys.  The neighbor has a Cozy Coupe, which Matthew adores, 
but so does Gregory (23 months).  Gregory climbed in the car and Matthew 
went in after him - trying to sit on him or somehow else sqash him out of 
the car.  I gave my speech on sharing and how Gregory could have a turn 
and then Matthew.  Matthew looked at me for a few minutes, then got out of 
the car and announced that he would push Gregory around in the car and did.  I didn't suggest that - he thought of it all by himself.  I was very impressed! 

Vanessa R. Stern
vrs0@bunny.gte.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: Warning kids about strangers?
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:07:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.183129.20541@clpd.kodak.com> staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507)) writes:

>>At least in the US, phone numbers (seven digits) fit the tune to
>>"Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" (which is also the tune to "ABC" and "Baa
>>Baa Black Sheep" - somebody had a good agent).  This helps kids learn
>>them.

>Depends on the combination of numbers.  Some play "Mary Had a Little
>Lamb", others don't play anything recognizable.

You misunderstood.  I'm not talking about PLAYING phone numbers on a
touch-tone phone; I'm talking about SINGING them to a known tune, as a
mnemonic aid.  I guess I should have stated that explicitly; it hadn't
occured to me that there was an alternate interpretation.

(Considering how stupid you thought I was being, I must commend you
on the understated wording you chose.)

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: rollo@xylogics.com (Dena Rollo)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Children & Sex
Date: 9 Sep 1992 09:02:53 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



Laura - For me, the point is not whether
someone is in the "family", but rather
whether or not the sex play is exploitative-
which is more an issue of power imbalance.

So, the fact that your 10 yr. old daughter
may have engaged in sexual play with her
10 yr. old uncle wouldn't worry me, as long
as the kids are evenly matched in age/experience.

It would also not lead me to believe that she'd
want to engage in sexual play with an infant,
regardless of whether that infant is her sibling or
not. The relevant connection here is that her uncle
and she are the same age, *not* that they're
related.

It sounds to me like this "family members" thing
may be a strongly loaded issue for you, and that
you are bringing that to this situation with
your daughter which, as I see it, is not really
a "situation", but simply normal kid exploration.

So I wouldn't make a big deal of either thing-the
play with her uncle, or the potential play with
her new sibling.

-Dena Rollo
From: ltaylor@eec.East.Sun.COM (Laura Taylor - Network Operations East)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Condoms... was Impact of the absent fa
Date: 15 Sep 1992 16:34:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: ltaylor@eec.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: eec.east.sun.com

your ideas about what is moral and what isn't is probably
vastly different from what most people think on this
list. 

in my opinion, anyone who marries someone without having
had sex with them is a total idiot.
From: jacek@edstar.ucsb.edu (Jacek Smits)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: You know you're a parent ....
Date: 5 Sep 92 16:03:27 GMT
Organization: UCSB Graduate School of Education

.... when you start reading misc.kids!

Jacek
jacek@edstar.gse.ucsb.edu

Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.legal,soc.women,soc.men,alt.child-support,alt.dads-rights
From: kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling)
Subject: Re: Grandparents' Rights/48 Hours
Organization: Manlius Pebble Hill School; Dewitt, NY
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 22:50:49 EDT

In article <1992Sep2.140344.7986@news.nd.edu> slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu
(susan larsen) writes:

   > But the woman is hurting her granddaughter, her only
   > grandchild.

This may be true in the short run, but in the long run, the only person
she's really hurting is herself, because when her granddaughter grows up
she's not going to want to have anything to do with her "grandmother," or at
least she'll be very ambivalent about her.

I say this because that's the way I am about my father.  There were about 16
good years, followed by about 4 not so good years, and then 10 or 12 when he
ceased to exist altogether until after having two heart attacks and having a
friend's kid die, he decided that maybe he ought to get back in contact with
me.  I still don't know what to do about him, having basically figured that
he didn't exist for 10 years.

Anyway, getting back to the direct subject, I'm a firm believer in the
concept that NO ____ (fill in the noun, grandparent, mother, father,
boyfriend, girlfriend, spouse, whatever) is better than a rotten one.  If
you have to deal with a rotten one, it may just color your perception from
then on in so that you figure everyone's like that.

How do you explain to your daughter that her grandmother doesn't want to
have anything to do with her without casting her as the villain?  Well, you
could try the "sick" explanation.  Explain that sometimes for reasons we
don't understand, things go wrong in people's minds and they don't act the
way we think they should, and it's not always their fault.  This way you
have an explanation that doesn't have the grandmother coming off as the
heavy, and doesn't have the kid thinking that *she* did something to become
unwanted, or that her grandmother doesn't love her (now that may well be the
case, but the kid doesn't have to know that yet, now does she?).

I think that in the long run, if you use the "sick" explanation, when your
daughter grows up, she'll have a great deal of respect for you when she
understands what you did and how you tried really hard not to cast her
grandmother in a bad light.

Now...as far as grandparent surrogates go...there are tons of people out
there who'd probably love to be an "adopted grandparent."  People at work,
people in the neighborhood, people at church, there may even be an
established adoptive granparent program where you are...check out a local
senior housing facility.  I know that when I was an undergrad living in a
dorm that was part of a complex including a senior residence, there were a
number of programs set up to get the students to meet the seniors...in fact
they even ate in our dining hall.

Well, hope this was helpful.

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Keith E Gatling                                  kgatling@mailbox.syr.edu *
*          Opinions?  I've got plenty of them.  Just ask my wife!           *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
From: alison@husky.informix (Alison Suggs)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: what do people pay for daycare?
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:19:02 GMT
Reply-To: alison@husky.informix
Organization: Informix Software

In article sw9VqB1w164w@kryton.UUCP, ace@kryton.UUCP (Catherine Beckstead) writes:
>exusag@exu.ericsson.se (Serena Gilbert,cs,x0364) writes:
>
>> In article 27889@informix.com, alison@husky.informix (Alison Suggs) writes:
>> > 
>> > Around here (East Bay, SF Bay area), daycare in a center, for infants,
>> > is between $115 - 135 a week.  I didn't think those were outrageous.
>> > 
>> > Also, I'm astonished that people find those rates too expensive.  For
>> > a 45-hour week, that's not even minimum wage.  How can we expect to 
>> > receive outstanding child care for our children when we do not show 
>> > the caretakers how much we value them by paying them a living wage?
>> > 
>> > Alison
>> 
>> But what about those who can't afford that (single parents or people who make
>> 
>> I have three in day care and it costs $246 a week plus $9 activity fees, $15 
>> I'm kinda looking forward to my oldest going to school next year.
>> 
>> Serena
>
>You also have to remember that a caregiver, taking care of 6 children at
>115 a week, makes 690 a week, that's about 15 dollars an hour.  They don't
>make their money on just your child. 

Just for the record, I was talking about daycare centers.  Here in CA, there
must be a 1 to 4 caregiver-to-infant ratio.  

Actually, in my fantasy-land, I'd like to see subsidized daycare like a 
previous poster mentioned SHE had.  People who are single parents, or have
financial distress for some other reason, would pay on a sliding scale.  
As a taxpayer, I'd be alot happier subsidizing daycare so that the adults
of the future wouldn't be too psycologically deformed than I am sending
aid to guerilla groups in South America.  

I confess, however, that I am a VERY new parent, and I've only just begun
to do research on this issue.  Furthermore, since both my husband and I
are white collar workers, I am financially comfortable.  But I still feel,
despite ignorance and naivete, that teachers and daycare providers ought
to be well-paid.

Alison
Xref: sparky misc.kids:22867 rec.arts.startrek.current:12826
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Names
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:54:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep8.230251.14756@newstand.syr.edu>, kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling) writes...
>
but who knows...just as my eyebrows were raised at first when I met
>my first Devra, maybe after meeting *our* Geordie someone else will decide
>to use the name...someone who doesn't even watch Star Trek.
> 
>And we checked in the names books...Geordie is a "real" name, it wasn't made
>up for Star Trek...it's a variation on George.  But (and apologies to any
>Georges out there) George just doesn't make it for us.  Geordie does.
> 
>Okay...opinions?
> 

Its not the fact that the names are unusual that gets me, its the 
fact that they're so similar to other common names.  Devra - Debra 
and Geordie - George.

Your sister's name, Jael, is *not* similar to other names, so it 
probably wasn't too huge a problem for her - aside from how to 
pronounce it.

My opinion is to give the child an unusual name if you want, but 
pick one that is distinctive (not easily confused with a common 
name) and is pronounced the way its spelled.

Don't give the child a name that will be a burden.

- Peggy -
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Saturday, 5 Sep 1992 11:32:47 EDT
From: Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Girls? (corrected!

i don't get along with and still find quite unfathomable the
traditional girly sort of girl or woman, and hate all the
subtle head games and other stuff.  but i never wanted anything
other than a girl.  your daughter doesn't HAVE to be some
fluttery little darling, you know!  mine sure isn't!

                                           -ailsa
From: ahelmers@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Names
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:44:44 EDT
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: Univ of Miami IR

In article <24933@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst) writes:
> I wonder if deep down I knew that Carrie would be a girl.  We had her
> name chosen two years before she was born.  (It's what Brad would have
> been had he been a girl.)  All through my pregnancy, I waffled on a
> boy's name.  We went into labor with three possibilities, none of which
> I was really crazy about.  Luckily we didn't need to pick one!


This is very similar to our experience.  During my first pregnancy we thought
of a boy's name that we both liked immediately, and never really did find one
we felt great about for a girl.  Then my son was born.  Second pregnancy,
thought of a lovely girl's name, and never settled on a boy name that we were
as enthusiastic about.  And presto:  I had a daughter!

Hmmm, maybe this should go under the sex-selection mythology...:)

Ann Helmers
From: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Caffeine during Pregnancy
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:46:00 GMT
Reply-To: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula)
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <22370@venera.isi.edu>, sdreynol@isi.edu (Sam D Reynolds) writes:
|> (Anita Graham) writes:
|> >Sure, heavy smokers have little babies, and foetal alcohol syndrome exists
|> >- but these relate to HEAVY HEAVY smokers and total alcoholics don't they.
|> >Not someone who just has to have a smoke every now and then, or has a glass
|> >of wine once a week when they go out to dinner (*), or even has regular
|> >cups of tea or coffee.
|> 
|> Heavy drinkers place their children at a MUCH greater risk of fetal
|> alcohol syndrome (FAS) than occasional drinkers but studies indicate
|> that the occasional drinker also places her child at risk.  An analogy
|> that comes to mind is the parent who allows her child to cross the
|> street without looking both ways.  The parent justifies her lack of
|> parental concern by suggesting that kids only get run over on VERY
|> VERY busy streets.

There is NO evidence ANYWHERE that one drink per week can do ANY harm 
to the fetus.

When they say "even small amounts of alcohol can damage the fetus," 
they're covering themselves with respect to the alcoholic who thinks 
three drinks a day is "not much alcohol."

Even a teetotaller will have a very small concentration of ethanol in her 
blood due to the fermentation of fiber in the gut. Suggesting that this 
could cause fetal alcohol syndrome would be ridiculous, and so is 
suggesting that one small drink, consumed rarely, will have any effect 
on the baby. Drinking a half of a beer, 6 ounces at 5% alcohol, will 
have the same effect as drinking two pints of natural fruit juice that 
contains 1% alcohol--guess we'd better ban unprocessed fruit juice. 
(I really did drink a lot of fruit juice while pregnant--I craved it.)

Getting thoroughly drunk one time only during pregnancy could have 
devastating effects on the fetus. The same amount of alcohol consumed 
one teaspoon at a time throughout pregnancy couldn't possibly have an 
effect. It's all a matter of blood alcohol concentrations. 

I told my genetic counselor that I was drinking a third of a homemade 
beer now and then, early in my pregnancy, and she said that was fine.
(Great source of folic acid, so it could even prevent some birth defects--
commercial beer isn't nearly as nutritious, though.) She said she
worries if it's one drink *every* day, or more than one drink at a time. 
I felt one whole drink at a time was too much.

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom)
Subject: Re: croup - help!
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:40:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.115956.17890@cci632.cci.com> lcw@cci632.cci.com (Lori Wershing) writes:
>
>      Wednesday:  coughing, runny nose, sneezing didn't do well on 1 bottle (4 total),
>               ate solids fine, spit up a bit more than usual on last bottle (he
>               rarely ever spits up at all), called Dr., on advice: elevated the
>               head of the crib 30 degrees, opened windows, continued with the 
>               humidifer
                ^^^^^^^^^

Humidifier? that is the warm heat thing, right? For croup my doctor said to use
a vaporizer which is cold mist.
>
>Questions:  Do the symptoms usually occur several nights in a row?

	when Jeffrey had it, I think he was croupy for 3 nights, but the first
 	night was the worse.
>            Does croup last the duration of the cold?
	not for us.
>            Anything we should do or try which we didn't?
	I was told to use the vaporizer. If he had a bad attack to go outside
	into the cold air (he had his case in winter) and to use a steamy
	bathroom. When Jeffrey had it, my mom was taking care of him, and
	took him into the doctors. It was a cold day. By the time she got
	there he was fine. After about 20 mins it started up again. My doctor
	told me that is common for people to rush their kids to the doctors
	or the emergency room and the kids are just fine by the time they
	get there.

	The doctor also gave us some medicine. I dont remember what it was 
	called but my instructions where not to give it to him until I had
	placed a call to the on call doctor, and then give it before rushing
	to the emergency hospital. Forutnately I didnt need it.

>            Will he grow out of this?
>            Is croup a separate virus from the cold virus or a complication arising
>                from the cold?

	Croup is Larengytis. In adults the swelling of the Epiglotis (???)
	causes hoarsness. In children it can close it up and they have trouble.
	so it is a different virus then a cold, and he will out grow it but
	it will take a while. I caught larengytis when Jeffrey had it. he
	was very sick. I was hardly put out by it.

Laura Floom
From: wang@optigfx.optigfx.com (Alice Wang)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Videotaping birth
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:36:57 GMT
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: Optigraphics Corporation, San Diego

In article <23171@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> smergen@luna.dpl.scg.hac.com (Sandra Mergen) writes:
>
>I would have liked to have the video of after she was born, and
>when they cleaned her, etc.  But, you can't go back, so I just
>have to be happy with the pictures.
>
>Sandy

For Christine's birth, we didn't videotape the pushing stage but my
husband had the camera rolling as soon as she came out.  He then
continued to videotape when they examined her, cleaned her, weighted
her, etc.  It was great as I didn't get to see a lot of that since
I was getting stiched up.

I was very camera shy about being filmed "down there".  Since the
video only contains Christine, I had no problem showing it to anyone
at all.  Everyone enjoyed watching it especially my Mom, who didn't
get to see any of her children's getting prep'ed when we were born.

Alice Wang
Mom to Christine, 9 mo
wang@optigfx.com

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: aidler@sanjuan.UVic.CA (E Alan Idler)
Subject: Re: Condoms... was Impact of the absent father
Organization: University of Victoria
Date: 13 Sep 92 04:12:32 GMT

choi@wk59.nas.nasa.gov (Diana Choi) writes:

> (Hillel) writes:
> 
> >Consumers Report claimed that condoms are 85% effective.  In other words,
> >over one year of using condoms, there is 15% probability for an unwanted
> >pregnancy.  In 7 years, the expectation is more than 1...
> >
> 
> I'm sure this is not the place to bring this up ...but what the hell.
> So something I've always wondered about is - Why does using a condom
> constitute safe sex?  If sperm can sneak by, can't the HIV virus?
> 
> diana

They promote the use of condoms and call it "safe sex."
Some call it "safer sex."
I call it "one great lie."

There are only two forms of sexual relations: 
moral sex and immoral sex.
Moral sex is characterised by chastity before marriage and
fidelity during marriage.

Some of the consequences of immoral sex are well known.  
Others are a little more abstruse.

Vain attempts to teach people that they can escape the consequences
of immoral behavior are irresponsible.

A IDLER
Xref: sparky misc.kids:23448 seattle.general:2995
From: milan@bcsaic.boeing.com (Milan Richter)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,seattle.general
Subject: Daycare and tips on how to select one needed
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:21:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boeing Computer Services

We have a 1 year old daughter and are looking for a reliable daycare
or a person to babysit during the week. We need a long-term solution
(several years). Since this is our first baby, I'd appreciate any tips 
about how to select a good daycare/person.

Our priorities include healthy food, intellectually stimulating program,
low children/care-giver ratio, cleanliness.

If anyone has concrete recommendations in the Bellevue/Issaquah area, please
mail me directly. Other references to a referral service, organizations etc
will be also helpful. Finally, what to look for, check out and ask, when 
dealing with a particular establishment.

Many thanks for help.

-- M. Richter.
Newsgroups: misc.kids,rec.arts.startrek.current