HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu (Yiannis Papelis)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: umwaufi report
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:25:41 GMT
Organization: CAD-Research, University of Iowa, Iowa City

In some article Richard Kaplan writes:

>For some real excitement, how about MSP (the TCA primary field
>in Minneapolis) at Northwest rush hour?  Then we could 
>spend the afternoon/evening at the new Mall of the Americas.

That would make my wife HAPPY ....

-- 
Yiannis E. Papelis,            - Electrical & Computer Engineering, U of Iowa
Center of Computer Aided Design- Home of the Iowa Driving Simulator & future
e-mail: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu - home of the National Advanced Driving Simulator
From: rob@cats.ucsc.edu (99708000)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: There I was - ears on auto
Date: 26 Aug 1992 05:11:23 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsco.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Aug25.072918.17566@peck.com> geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
>In article <1992Aug24.174554.2847@i88.isc.com> ericth@i88.isc.com
>(Eric Thiele) describes a "listen-o" where he heard what he expected
>rather than what Livermore tower said.

>> ...The tower was trying to sort out who was who to try
>> to figure out where I was - I presume their radar was out at the time.  

>General pilot warning:  not all towers have radar!  Repeat:
>		    NOT ALL TOWERS HAVE RADAR!
>Indeed, if my memory serves, the majority of air traffic control towers
>in the U.S. are NON-RADAR TOWERS.

>Now, you may ask, what good is a tower if they don't have radar?  Well,
>they keep track of traffic by (1) telling it where to go, (2) asking it
>where it is, and (3) looking for it out the window.  With non-radar towers,
>it's particularly critical to listen to instructions and to provide _good_
>position reports.

I second this--the grossest example I've seen of this is Renton, Wa.   
It's busy with both land and sea planes, is only a few miles from
Seatac, and has a Boeing assembly plant on field--but no radar!?
I was talking to Seatac Tracon, and they switched me to Renton Tower
rather late.  The harried guy in the tower asked me how far out I was
and I said 2 miles.  "TWO MILES" he asked incredulously while copong
with four other planes in the pattern--he calmed down after I told
him I had been talking to approach--but that didn't make his job
any easier.  Approach had said "radar service terminated, squak
1200, contact Renton tower"--he never knew I was coming--gross.

-- 

-Rob Strand

   From Bitnet: rob@ucscvm  From Internet: rob@ucscvm.ucsc.edu
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Recent flamage here
Date: 26 Aug 1992 16:16:17 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston


Just a short plea: Folks, please let's keep this group on a high level. Many
people have quite a bit to contribute, and toasting them hurts us all. If you
think someone's done something st00pid, try to keep yourself to discussing the
safety-related aspects of the situation in a positive manner.

I'd hate to see the rec.aviation slogan (first publicized in the patch
designed by the victim of one recent flame) become "Global Hangar Flaming"...
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
"Keep in mind that Amateur Radio As We Know It Today will end at midnight
                 tonight." -- Dave Newkirk, WJ1Z
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Subject: Re: Best sunglass color
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:37:01 GMT

kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki) writes:

>Plexiglass windshields can polarize light which makes polarizing lenses
>less desirable.

>I would not worry too much about the color, but maybe be a bit more
>aware if the polarization has any adverse effects.  Please post your
>good/bad experience also.  It might help other pilots making similar
>decisions.

For many years I flew (and drove, and cut grass, and ...) wearing Polaroid
(brand) polarized clip-on shades on top of my normal glasses.  The only
reason I stopped was that Polaroid quit making them many years ago and
my supply finally ran out.

I never had any problems with them in the cockpit.  The various birds I
flew (mostly Piper and Cessna, usually singles, with an occasional
Banana and Aero Commander twin thrown in for flavoring) never had windscreen
material polarized sufficiently to cause any problems.

The only thing I had to watch out for was that some radio displays would 
disappear if I tilted my head, but there was no trouble as long as I
kept my head upright.

Incidentally, the Polaroid lenses were quite effective; placing two
against each other at 90 degrees passed very little light.  

Since nobody seems to make decent clip-on sunglasses these days I guess
I'll have to finally break down and get a prescription set.  Oh well,
I'm due for another trip to the optometrist anyway...

Joe Morris / MITRE
From: martinl@torolab6.VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 14:10:31 EDT
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Intercom Woes
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
News-Software: Usenet 3.0

I hope that I can get some advice from netland on intercoms.

First, some background. I have a 1984 Pitts S2-B, with a factory installed
KX175B & hard switched intercom. I wanted to free up some space (and weight)
in the radio stack for a Loran and a Shadin fuel flow. The local radio
shop swapped my KX175B for a Narco COM810, and quoted me 1.5 hrs labor to
wire it in. (My mechanic fitted the Narco tray). Once they had wired it in,
they called me and said 'the radio works, but we need $1200 to get the
intercom to work'. ($550 for the NAT020 intercom, 8 hrs. labor, 15% tax).
Prices and taxes in Canadian $, so your actual mileage may vary. Obviously,
I am rather unhappy. After about 3 weeks of grousing on my part, they
hooked something up which they claimed should work. It was a hard-wired
intercom, using the internal intercom capability of the Narco, but was
not done per the Narco installation manual, but rather some kludged quicky
method they came up with. It sort of works, but ONLY if you have two
IDENTICAL headsets, such as 2 DC 10-40s. Two dynamic mics, like DC 10-30s
don't always work. As I have a DC10-30 and a DC10-40, I have a real problem.

I have to do something, as I have to borrow a DC 10-40 everytime I want
to take somebody for a ride. So, I have to get a intercom. (I don't want
to get another headset, and thats not a proper solution anyways.)

First, I want to get a portable intercom ($cheap), while I figure out
want to do in the long term ($expensive panel mount). PTT switches are
already wired into the radio circuit, so I need a portable that does not
use a PTT switch input. Any recommondations on a unit that will handle
a S2-B cockpit environment (extremely loud!)?

Secondly, what intercoms can you recommend for a panel mount? Several people,
especially those who aren't trying to push their own product, all
recommend the N.A.T. I called Pitts, but the one they recommend is the
Sigtronics SP400, which has to be the lousiest piece of junk out there (I
had a look at one, and it is very cheaply made). Actually, every factory
Pitts I have seen has the hard switched intercom and a King radio.

Any thoughts?

Martin Langhammer
From: david@infopro.com (Dragon [David Fiedler])
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Overloaded Cherokee Crash comments
Date: 28 Aug 92 02:31:58 GMT
Organization: InfoPro Systems: Writers, Consultants, and Dragons

Seems like his passengers are lucky they didn't get far off the ground.
With 1 1/2 miles visibility, they likely would have *all* been killed once
disorientation set in at altitude.
-- 
David Fiedler    UUCP:{netcomsv,utoday}!infopro!david               AIR: N3717R
"The future is tekon."   Internet: david@infopro.com or david@utoday.com 
USMail:InfoPro Systems, PO Box 220 Rescue CA 95672 Phone:916/677-5870 FAX:-5873
From: barney@sol.usc.edu (Barney Lum)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Two planes collide over Santa Paula Airport
Date: 3 Sep 1992 10:51:21 -0700
Organization: USC University Computing Services, Los Angeles
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.usc.edu
Summary: Getting Current Information

kzk00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (  200  Klaus Kraemer) writes:
[ cites _Pilot's_Guide, A/FD, and LAX Sectional listing 122.9 as
  CTAF for SZP,  while _Flight_Guide_ still lists 122.7 ]

The change implies that SZP no longer has a Unicom... 122.9 is multicom,
no one at the airport monitoring to give airport information.  
_Flight_Guide_ (5/92 revision) lists 122.7, but adds "unmonitored". 
The entry is now also a full-page layout, making it look *very* up-to-date
with arrival and departure route information.  But, the A/FD and NOS Charts 
are the "official" source of that kind of information.

What apparently happened is that the change took place upon publication of 
the updated Charts (7/23) and A/FD (8/20?), hence no NOTAM was made (I gave 
Hawthorne a call and they explained that).  The table of changes-to-charts 
in the A/FD lists other updates, but SZP's new CTAF was not among them.

When it was on 122.7, SZP shared the frequency with Big Bear as well as 
Catalina... together three of some of the most popular recreational airports 
in Southern California.  When at Catalina, radio traffic is a mess as 
transmissions from the other two (as well as a few others) are easily 
received there.  I personally had been hoping that Catalina, being sort of 
in the "middle", would have been the one to change its CTAF and perhaps 
relieve a lot of the chatter.

I can't help but wonder how they didn't *see* each other, assuming both 
were flying the (required) pattern.  There's not much lateral flexibility
on downwind since it's only 600' AGL and sandwiched between a mountain
ridge and the runway.

"Familiarize thyself with all available information regarding that flight.. "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >|            
              >|      barney@usc.edu  Barney@USCVM
 -->  -->  --> |   =======    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---   ---    ---  
              >|      Permanent Student Pilot, On the Numbers   
              >|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: amazon@sgi.com (Stormwind)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Overloaded Cherokee Crash comments
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:47:59 GMT
Organization: X Industries, Heavy Weapons R&D

(Bill Coleman) writes:
>Second, why is it that pilots who perform such acts of stupidity are first to 
>blame the plane's engine? 

given the long list of Things
Not To Do that the pilot did, 
it might be the case that the
pilot attempted to misdirect 
blame from himself to the aircraft
in an effort to clear himself.

however, this seems just downright
*insane* given the blatant violations
that he's already committed; he
must be hallucinating to think that
they won't check the engine to find
out if it had a problem or not.

>The general public doesn't know 
>enough about aviation to identify the abjectly stupid actions and place the
>blame where it belongs. So they go away with the impression that these small
>aircraft are unreliable - dangerous even. The engine just burps a little bit,
>and you're dead. Very dangerous.

hmmm.  a good point, but consider
also how thrilled the public would
be to learn that a student pilot 
committed *that* large a number of
errors and wouldn't have been caught
if the plane hadn't been crashed.
i don't think the reaction would be
favorable.

which makes me curious: did the paper
say anything about the infractions he
committed, and why they were infractions?
or did they just stick to the basics?

>The truth is, most aircraft fly just fine with a dead fan. Pilots undergo an
>intense amount of training to deal with the engine-out situation. Even if
>the engine goes dead, people aren't likely to get killed.

even if you KNOW this it can be
hard to overcome years of media 
indoctrination.  my first lesson in
performing stalls was absolute hell
for me; i've never been that terrorized
before.  i was shaking and covered in 
sweat, because my hindbrain kept telling
me the aircraft was going to fall and
subject me to zero G and worse.  this 
despite the fact that i'd had several 
stalls demo'd.

it took steve all of two stalls to 
figure this out (i was incapable of 
vocalizing at that point, and doing 
my best to master my fear), whereupon
he did a graphic demo of What A Stall Is.
he carefully went over everything, he
put the airplane into a full stall and
said, "feel anything?"

"no."

"right.  we're fully stalled."

"we *are*?"

"look at the altimeter."

"OH."
(ding)

"watch how controllable we still 
are by using the rudder and keeping
the ailerons level."

and i didn't have any more trouble 
with stalls.  i spent quite a bit of 
time playing with them.

i also discovered that a couple of
trips on The Edge at great america
tends to cure one of zero G problems
almost immediately....

		stormwind

		hell's amazon
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: steve@netcom.com (Stephen Williams)
Subject: C-177RG to try out
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 18:11:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Reply-To: steve@icarus.net.netcom.com
Distribution: ca

I've been looking at the Cessna Cardinal (177) RG and am to the point
where I want to try one out. Does anybody know where I might find
a C-177RG that I can rent for a few hours. I live real close to OAK
but in a pinch can fly (in a rental, of course:-) to wherever.

--Steve Williams
steve@icarus.net.netcom.com
PP-AMEL-IA and if all goes well, owner of a C177RG Real Soon Now.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: Flying saves money (sic)
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:42:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.215802.19821@medtron.medtronic.com>, km11480@medtronic.COM (Keith A. Meisel) writes:
|> >there is just one thing which nobody has taken into account yet:
|> >driving would be much more expensive if it were not subsidized (i.e. you
|> >take for granted that road construction and maintenance is paid by
|> >?the tax payer).  How much would it cost to drive if you were paying for
|> ?the whole cost involved?
|> 
|> How much would general aviation flying cost us if Flight Service, ATC, 
|> were not subsidized by taxes on airline tickets.

But why shouldn't ATC and Flight Service be subsidised by airline
tickets?  Those services benefit airlines as well as GA.  And my
understanding is that GA does pay for those services in part thru
fuel taxes.

|> A recent editorial in 
|> the Minneapolis Star Tribune pointed out that if GA pilots paid their
|> "fair share" (their words) the cost for the GA pilot would increase 
|> tremendously.

I would say that the editorialist's opinion of what GAs "fair share" is
is way far off the mark.  How could an airline function without weather
information, tower/approach/en route facilities, charts, plates, etc.?
In point of fact, heavily restricted airspace is usually a result of
an increase in COMMERCIAL traffic.  GA was doing just fine all on its
own in "uncontrolled" airspace until the skies got crowded with
commercial jets.

Don't get me wrong:  I have nothing against commercial traffic or the
airspace control that such traffic warrants.  I do resent people (like
this writer for the Minneapolis Star) trying to put the entire burden
of cost on GA's shoulders.

Is it possible that you can post a copy of the editorial?

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
From: pauls@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Paul Stafford)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:12:33 GMT
Subject: Re: how to do a mag check?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

 Well, I wouldn't claim to be an expert, but I can imagine that when you
 switch back to both for a few moments, you are allowing the engine to 
 clear any fouling before testing the other mag. In other words, resetting
 the system to 0 before the second test. You might try an an experiment
 to see whether the mag drops are the same with either method, or
 whether the order of testing each mag makes any difference.
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Warm fuzzy
Date: 25 Aug 1992 17:04:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Aug24.194627.6547@i88.isc.com> ericth@i88.isc.com (Eric Thiele) writes:
>If only I had the scratch for the ARSA Fighter

Yeah. Me too. If only I had that kinda cash...or even the dough for the
Hummin' Little Grumman...or the Spirit of rec.aviation...or whoever it was's
172 out west for $10K...

Damn, how I wish I hadn't spent all my money before I discovered flying.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
  "Anything that an F-4 can outturn is not maneuverable." -- Mary Shafer
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Re: KIWI AIRLINES [MD-11 NOTE too]
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 23:53:57 GMT

Marshal "Airborne" Perlman writes
..
> FRONTIER: Big 'F' for "Forgot to put the gear up" (personal story).

Do tell...

--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,eunet.aviation
From: zari@math.ethz.ch (Alain Zarinelli)
Subject: Re: portable scanners
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 08:58:57 GMT

sloubtin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Sylvain Louboutin) writes about a guy being arrested
in northern Ireland because he owned a scanner and asks for advice on portable
scanners.

Of course I can only guess why he was arrested, but I think that guy owned
more than just an air band scanner. In Luxemburg I have a SONY ICF PRO80
which has the capability of receiving from 150 kHz up to 108 MHz and, using a
supplied converter, from 115.15 MHz to 223 MHz. Thus one has the opportunity
to listen to the "normal radio", the air band, wireless telephones AND the
police! You might guess that this is (at least in Luxemburg) not really very
legal... Perhaps he owned something like that?

Normally I'm carrying my ICOM IC-A20 with me. Up to now I didn't have any
problems -- even with the french "Police de l'air". I just tell them that
it's my VHF emergency radio and that it'll stay in the plane.

The ICOM IC-A20 is a VHF air band transceiver with frequency range from 108.0
MHz to 135.975 MHz. It has the capability of VOR reception (with TO/FROM
indication, radial, CDI) and normal COM operation. Its maximum output power
is 5W and it has 16 user-programmable memory channels. With its normal
antenna the VOR reception (in a CESSNA) is acceptable: I managed to stay on
track when the only NAV/COM in the plane quit; and I didn't have to squawk
7600...

--Alain.
--
Alain Zarinelli                                            (PPL-CVFR/NVFR)
zari@math.ethz.ch                                                         
zari@astro.phys.ethz.ch               "If God had meant man to fly ---
zari@czheth5a.bitnet                   He would have given him more money"
From: pfile@dingo.cs.wisc.edu (Rob Pfile)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Flight Command (was: Re: Mr Spitfire spits the dummy...news)
Date: 3 Sep 92 23:19:07 GMT
	<1992Aug31.172747.113635@evolving.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: U of Wisconsin CS Dept

In article <1992Aug31.172747.113635@evolving.com> rhw@evolving.com (Robert H. Wiebener) writes:


   The Discovery Channel had a great piece about this accident on the
   documentary "Flight Command".  Or something like that.  They analyzed
   the accident in-depth and had some great footage.  Looks like that 29
   made a big hole.  

   -- robert 

The Series is indeed called "Flight Command," and the Episode in question
was called "Hot Flight." (Yeah, dumb title...) Anyway these things are
produced by AW&ST, and presumably are available for purchase from them.

I'm still kicking myself from here to Kubinika that I didnt record that
show.

Last night the episode of "Flight Command" was called (something like) US
& Soviet fighers match-up. They did detailed vignettes of all of the
current lineup of US planes, as well as the MiG-29 and Su-27. They showed
the paris MiG-29 crash in this one as well. I'm also kicking myself for
not having any blank tapes for this one. Anyway, my cable guide shows that
Flight Command is also on on the weekend, so maybe it will be repeated. I
dont remember the exact time, though. I think it's Sat. night.

I happen to have a .jpeg picture of the paris crash, with the plane's nose
buried in the ground about 20 feet, a few mS before the explosion. If
anyone wants it please let me know; It's huge but I may be able to make it
available for anonymous ftp

If anyone has any idea if "Flight command: Hot Flight" will be repeated,
please let me know!

thanks!

rob pfile
pfile@cs.wisc.edu
From: peggy.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Flying After Andrew
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:46:18 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

Boca Aviation (Boca RAton is 45 miles north of Miami)
also put its planes in a hangar...we had less damage than
areas further south (windows broken, trees down). 
Try them at (407) 368-1110.
Peggy Golden   Warrior 38897
From: jon@csinc.UUCP (Jon Barber)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Fly-in
Summary: "flower-bombing"
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:53:17 GMT
Organization: Control Systems, Inc., St. Paul MN

In article <1992Sep3.172656.26354@nmsu.edu>, bboswell@dante.NMSU.Edu (BOSWELL) writes:
> The local EAA Chapter out here at Las Cruces, NM (LRU) is sponsoring a fly-in  
> on Sept. 20 (21? whichever one is a Sunday, don't have a calendar).  They think  
> they may have a Stealth fighter from Holloman AFB, but they will definitely  
> have aerobatic displays, lots of talk, and a flower-bombing, spot-landing, and
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Geez!  Don't tell MargarettE 8-) 8-) 8-)

jon

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (HOWARD PETRI)
Subject: Re: Lost Arc:  Flying Wing
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: INDIANA U. CYCLOTRON FACILITY, BLOOMINGTON, IN
Distribution:  world
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:03:01 GMT

In article <Btx4p9.1pq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (HOWARD PETRI) writes...

     Since posting to rec.aviation is now equivalent to negotiating a
minefield; let me hasten to correct my poor grammar before I am flamed
into oblivion.

>perigrination with the heroine inside, and finally it gets set on fire.
 peregrination--(I need to use the dictionary first, then post)     

>I really doubt that they would set it on fire 10 times a day if it 
>was. It's all just Hollywood glitz.
 That's--if it were, subjunctive voice-- I knew that.

     Sorry for the nonsense, but somehow I feel safer now.

Howard Petri
Pegasus N599JH
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Finding toxic waste (Re: Flying for the Environment)
Keywords: Another unnecessary flame
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:14:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

In article <1992Aug25.141705.15154@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> hgp@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (howard.page) writes:
>Let's ignore him. He's apparantly not worth a second thought.
>Keep up the good work! Keep on posting!!!

Here, here.  
Or is it Hear, hear?  
Oh what the heck, keep up the good work! Keep on posting!!! 
-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539    rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com    CDP, PP-ASEL
Newsgroups: rec.aviation