HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.sex,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: ROBO-COPULATION
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 16:12:14 EST
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

jessec@yang.earlham.edu writes:

> > Of course, in a sense, the comebackers are just as 'innocent' as the 
> > first angry speaker, and the angry woman is just as guilty as the 
> > comebackers of kneejerk generalized bigotry.
> 
>    Hmm.  I suppose you can take that view of things, but I'd 
> differentiate a little more.
>    I think that the woman who posted originally was rightful in her anger. 
> Read history.  Not much you can say to it.  And we are part of it, Bill 
> and Mike and I, much as we'd like not to.  Power and privilege and all 
> that.
>    So I don't feel like any of us are in the moral position to say "oh, 
> you shouldn't be so angry" to her.  That's what Marilyn Frye called 
> circumvention of anger, and it only frustrates the angry person more.  
> Anger's got a social function, according to Frye, but it only works when 
> the anger is "taken up" (responded to, not deflected or put aside).  To 

I'm in general agreement with yur statements as well.

I was attempting, perhaps unsuccessfully, to push the exchange into a new 
dimension, to catalyse it up and out of the bilateral well of male and 
female pain.

My purpose and hope in doing this lies more in getting the combackers to 
look at their own prgramming-- in order to get them in a position in 
which they can hear me at all, as opposed to rejecting me out-of-hand as 
"one of _those_...", I have to send them a signal which will cool their 
limbic brain's 'attack, bite, hurt' automatic territorial reaction.

So, my "moral position" is an odd and complicated one. I don't think I'm 
functioning on the same axis in which the initial argument is taking 
place. 

From my perspective, everyone's in agony, institutionalized agony. The 
snappy technojock comebackers cut their own throats, sexually, by 
continuing to act out right/wrong games with angry Paula-- they reinforce 
within themselves strategies that will fuck their chances of bonding with 
an extraordinary woman partner later in life. (Not that they care, I'm 
sure.... perhaps for them any submissive egg-bearer will do... ;-} ).

Hey, what does it matter? Evolution in action. It leaves the 
extraordinary women for males like us, eh?

As for the agony and rage of Paula and her contemporaries-- I listen, I 
do not resist, and I avoid contributing to her imprisonment and abuse. 
But for me to think I can help her beyond that may be hubris. In this 
planet of prisons, everyone has to take responsibility for their own 
escape, and their own loocal uprising, or so I think, at this time...

Later, Bill
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: wizard@wixer.cactus.org (John P Onorato)
Subject: Re: William Gibson
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 22:05:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.195412.19071@crd.ge.com> (Spike) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.033958.19746@wixer.cactus.org>,
>wizard@wixer.cactus.org (John P Onorato) wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if the eteeemed William Gibson is on the net?  (I'm
>> sure he is, but it remains to be seen WHERE.)  I have a question
>> or two to ask him.
>
>No, actually, I don't think he is.  According to an article I read last
>year in People magazine,
>he's actually computer illiterate.  Wrote Neuromancer on a damn Selectric
>or somesuch.

That's pretty hilarious.  Does anyone know, then,  how I might get in
contact with his agent or somesuch?



john


-- 
John P Onorato             |   "Softness without strength is weakness.
wizard@wixer.cactus.org    |    Strength without softness is meanness."
cactus.org!wixer!wizard    |             -- Mahatma Gandhi
Xref: sparky alt.cyberpunk:5691 alt.industrial:700 alt.sex:35810 alt.sex.bondage:21678
From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Followup-To: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
Date: 12 Nov 1992 00:03:06 GMT
Organization: PETA - People for the Evisceration of Tiresome Activists
NNTP-Posting-Host: purplehaze.corp.sun.com



In article <1992Nov11.213737.29989@u.washington.edu> space2@hardy.u.washington.edu (Tim) writes:

>>Question - Why is this thread in this newsgroup?

>Because this in an UNmoderated group... part of that freedom of speech thing.


That's not good enough, Binker.

"'The right to do something' does not mean that doing it is right."

					-- William Safire

Truer words were never scrit.  It's amazing how many people fail to grasp
the difference between the concepts of "rights" and propriety.


Geoff


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller                    + + + + + + + +        Sun Microsystems
geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM  + + + + + + + +     Menlo Park, California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
From: rhogan@aludra.usc.edu (Ronald Hogan)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Neuromancer, Count Zero and MLO: trailers
Followup-To: alt.cyberpunk
Date: 7 Nov 1992 23:32:56 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
Expires: 21 Nov 1992
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
Summary: These are some suggestions I had that didn't make the original post
Keywords: casting directors Gibson trilogy

Fantastic job compiling the trailer input, guys!  These are some last minute
thoughts I had on the subject:

Steve Buscemi might make a pretty good Case as well as Wage.
Seymour Cassell (_In_the_Soup_, lots of John Cassavettes films) as the Finn.

The DP on Spike Lee's film's is Ernest Dickerson, not Eric.  As a film major,
I wouldn't want to go on public record as misnaming one of the best DPs in the
business today.

Two other directors who could pull this off spring to mind:
1) Ken Russell has a pretty good history of capturing the hallucinatory state
on film, so he could probably do a really great job on cyberspace ("Consensual
hallucination").  I particularly offer the sensory deprivation scenes from his
film _Altered_States_ as evidence of this.  Could there be a link between the
sensory deprivation users and the cowboys?  Both are using technology to leave
their bodies and tap into powers that become rooted in mythology and evolution.

2) Excluding the obvious _Blade_Runner_, the film that I feel comes closest to
presenting the kind of world Gibson's stories might take place in is Wim 
Wenders' _Until_the_End_of_the_World_, which is set in (I think) 1999.  It has
the technology, the globespanning characters, and a sequence in Tokyo that 
really reminds me of what Neuromacer could be on film.  Granted, it's overlong
by about fortyfive minutes to an hour, and it's slow, but it's got the setting,
even down to the rock soundtrack.

Both Wenders and Russell seem to specialize in stories of brilliant, alienated
figures, often on the margins of society, pushing up against social forces way
bigger than they are.  And Wenders in particular has such an extensive range of
knowledge of American pop culture that his films always seem rooted in a real
place, something you could imagine existing out there somewhere.

Finally, for Maelcum, either Robert Townsend (who played a similar character
in _The_Mighty_Quinn_) or Jimmy Cliff (who costarred in _Club_Paradise_).

And for a complete wildcard, Robin Williams as Dixie Flatliner.
Think about it.

Ron
rhogan@usc.edu



Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
From: chungkuo@ais.org (Shawn FitzGerald)
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Organization: UMCC
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:55:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.044003.25837@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> sgreever@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steven Greever) writes:
>
>
>(
>(Disclaimer - these are fully my own opinios - I mean nobody no harm)
>
>The more I look at people's postings about the problems of the world in our
>Industrial Society, I keep thinking, perhaps we have forgotten the
>techings of Jesus.  We must recognize Jesus as our true savior as always
>to lead us into the divine light of revelation.  Yet what do you people 
>practice: Ugliness, Deviance, Delinquency.  Jesus can show you all your
>true path in life, and then maybe you can all co-operate and be friendly
>with each other in industry.
>
>If we each followed the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have
>them do unto you", 
>
>there would be no problems in society.AA
>
>
>
>
>-Sgreever
>E-mail me at sgreever@nyx.cs.du.edu
>

Oh wow. Gee I never thought of that. Wow, I really AM a deviant. I read
gritty sci-fi, I have sex, I play role-playing games. Wow...I never
realized. Gee...man. 

I have to thank you and comend you for pointing out the error of my ways.

So many souls, so little time eh? 


-- 
----------
Shawn FitzGerald     UMCC (U of M Computing Club)   Michigan
chungkuo@ais.org     "Whether you are quiet and alive, or
quiet and dead makes no difference to Cerebus."
From: captain@west.darkside.com (Captain)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: cyberspace society
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:31:00 GMT
Organization: The Dark Side of the Moon +1 408 245 SPAM


 Not to interupt the normal course of these discussions (if indeed there 
is such a course) but I thought I'd interject an idea on cyberspace, or 
the Net, as we presently know it. And it IS cyberspace for us until the 
future arrives.
 Basically, the Net is the collective term for the systems spanning the 
globe, and space, that are interconnected by telecommunication lines. At 
certain junctions of these data carrying lines are the omnipresent  
BBS's. Wherever you are, or mathematically speaking, whatever you are, 
you can count on finding a hovel, fortress, or haven from the storm of 
overwhelmingly numerous transfers occuring around you. Essentially, we 
become data in the Net, that we might better understand and govern the 
data we transfer.
 Ever see the movie TRON? This may have been many people's first 
introduction to the theory, however prehistoric, of cyberspace. Others 
may argue this, and I welcome it, but my belief is that the TRON vision 
possessed all the basic determiners of cyberspace. The digitizing of Jeff 
Bridges' character was an extreme representation of man becoming data 
when jacking in to the Net. Another example of turning the DNA code into 
computer code is William Gibson's character Dixie Flatline in 
Neuromancer.
 It's amazing, this concept that we can be taken from the physical world, 
and have all our idiosyncrasies, all mental facilities, and indeed our 
very souls, recreated in the world of data. Not that this is yet 
possible, but the concept...
 In present time, we are at the least able to transfer our thoughts and 
beliefs into data, as this very post proves, so who knows how far future 
science can take us? I think it says something about our society, and our 
uniqueness and originality, when we are readily broken down into numbers 
and letters. To me it seems greatly impersonalized.
 This post is not designed to denounce our electronic society; quite the 
contrary. It is merely to provoke a little pondering of the matter.

"Every man is a volume, if you know how to read him." -Channing

-Captain out
From: lxh16@po.CWRU.Edu (Lila Hanft)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Feminist CyberPunk
Date: 13 Nov 1992 17:07:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: lxh16@po.CWRU.Edu (Lila Hanft)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


I'm really really new to this genre -- I just finished my first dizzy-ing
euphoric reading of Neuromancer, and I'm breathless to read more.

But I'm teaching a course on Feminism and Popular Culture next semester in
which I want to teach some feminist cyberpunk fiction -- any suggestions?
I'd like to know which authors and books you like, and why?
Also, is there anything to suggest that cyberpunk is inherently
anti-feminist or misogynist? I didn't find _Neuromancer_ to be so, but as I
said my experience is radically limited at this point.
 
-- 
Lila Hanft                                     lxh16@po.cwru.edu
Assistant Professor of English
Case Western Reserve University                   (216)-386-2372
Cleveland, OH 44106-7117                lxh16%po.cwru.edu@cunyvm
From: Denise.Turner@f160.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Denise Turner)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Request for Stories: ROBO-COPULATION
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 01:41:50 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/160 - Hacker's Haven, Clearwater FL

Why bondage oriented? Cyberpunk is not limited to only the torture and suffering side of things is it? Did I miss something important, maybe? I thought cyberpunk was about people who bucked that whole repressive, corpo-fascist, s+m  sort of world, people who didn't like it that way and wanted to make it better? Can we leave stories that are cyberpunk/industrial-machine sex but not bondage or or whatever? I write stories like that but bondage (or any pain-trip, for that matter) gives me the creeps........


--  
Internet: Denise.Turner@f160.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG
UUCP:     ...!myrddin!tct!mechanic!160!Denise.Turner
Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between USENET & FIdonet.
      For information write to chief@mechanic.fidonet.org

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
From: sgreever@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steven Greever)
Subject: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 04:40:03 GMT



(
(Disclaimer - these are fully my own opinios - I mean nobody no harm)

The more I look at people's postings about the problems of the world in our
Industrial Society, I keep thinking, perhaps we have forgotten the
techings of Jesus.  We must recognize Jesus as our true savior as always
to lead us into the divine light of revelation.  Yet what do you people 
practice: Ugliness, Deviance, Delinquency.  Jesus can show you all your
true path in life, and then maybe you can all co-operate and be friendly
with each other in industry.

If we each followed the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have
them do unto you", 

there would be no problems in society.AA




-Sgreever
E-mail me at sgreever@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: Denise.Turner@f160.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Denise Turner)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: ROBO-COPULATION
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 01:36:08 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/160 - Hacker's Haven, Clearwater FL

>>      illuminated spot on the ground.
>>
>>Woman (whimpers): No, NOOOOOOOOOOO
>>
>>F-34(engages cannons): You are powerless, so powerless......
>>
>>Woman, crying, rushes to the specified spot.
>>
>>F-34: Now lie down, bitch.
>>
>>Woman lies down.  A huge cylindrical metal hoist 
>>springs up out of nowhere
>>      and carries the woman to the appropriate place onthe F's
>>      underside, where the collection of 10" missles resides throbbing
>>      for action... Straps and chains engage, and the rest is left to
>>      the reader's imagination...

Ugh!!!!! Not to imping on anybody's artor anything, but aren't women exploited, raped, tortured, opressed, etc. enough already?  I mean rape by a goddam airplane?!! that's ...well I dunno what it is but it's definitely not  a good for women kinda thing. Why do people think up/write this kinda thing? Somebody please tell me cos I am lost. As if we didn't have enough to worry about being raped by obnoxious humans, now I can have nightmares about airplanes too, oh joy!


--  
Internet: Denise.Turner@f160.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG
UUCP:     ...!myrddin!tct!mechanic!160!Denise.Turner
Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between USENET & FIdonet.
      For information write to chief@mechanic.fidonet.org

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
From: christian@Turing.ORG (Christian Claiborn)
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:27:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.044003.25837@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> sgreever@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steven Greever) writes:
>(Disclaimer - these are fully my own opinios - I mean nobody no harm)
[Disclaimer- I hate fundies, and I like to hurt people.]

>The more I look at people's postings about the problems of the world in our
>Industrial Society, I keep thinking, perhaps we have forgotten the
>techings of Jesus.  We must recognize Jesus as our true savior as always
>to lead us into the divine light of revelation. 

Yeef.  Ok, I can handle it.  These are your opinions, etc.  Of course, I 
don't see what the <expletive deleted> this has to do with alt.sex...

>Yet what do you people 
>practice: Ugliness, Deviance, Delinquency.  Jesus can show you all your
>true path in life, and then maybe you can all co-operate and be friendly
>with each other in industry.

Um, do you have particular people in mind, or do you just mean people who 
read news?  Myself, I'd classify EMACS users and people who boycott veal
into the above categories, but then again, I'm probably one of those
Ugly Deviant Delinquents you so eloquently capitalized.

>If we each followed the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have
>them do unto you", 
>
>there would be no problems in society.AA

Maybe if we all followed the Golden Netiquette Rule: "Don't post unless you
have a clue," the world wouldn't be such an annoying place to read news in.


							Christian
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Christian Claiborn, Llamist Lliason, UNH | My opinions are strictly those  |
| All my posts are inspired by dreams.     | of Mother Teresa.  She's over at|
| Especially the ones about panties and    | saint@pope.catholic.com.  Blame |
| honey and Brigitte Fonda.  God did 'em.  | her.  Send your flames to HER.  |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| clc@kepler.unh.edu/ C_CLAIBORN@unhh.unh.edu | I do bar-mitzvahs, too!      |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: v067rcyf@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (AARDVARK)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Matrix (???) Returns, New Issue
Date: 7 Nov 92 05:14:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <39873@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, aamicone@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Andrew Micone) writes...
>In article <1992Oct20.170806.13287@tic.com> jsq@tic.com (John Quarterman) writes:
>>In article <39787@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> aamicone@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Andrew Micone) writes:
>>>
>>>I've decided to resurrect my long languishing Cyberpunk Fanzine     
>>>MATRIX for a special issue called "What is CyberSpace?" to be         
>>>published at the end of October.
>>
>>A different name would be preferable.
>>
>>Matrix News is a newsletter about cross-network issues.
> 
>Well, I think I had the name MATRIX first, but since I stopped 
>publishing in 1989 it hardly matters now. I'll rename the fanzine
>something else. The present Matrix seems to have a good handle on
>the technical side of the issue, anybody have a suggestion for a
>flaky new-age, chock-full-o'-literary-methaphors-and-personal-
>testimonies style Cyberpunk journal? The CyberFlakes Review? Net
>Nirvana, and you? Finding the Net Within? :)
> 
>PS - Find the right name and I'll send you a "super-powered"
>crystal bursting with PLB! (Peace, Light, and Bliss!) Yessiree, here
>in the armpit of the southwest we take our Cyberspace serious
>pardner! 


I write a series of articles that cover the cyberpunk movement,
and, yes, it's a cheesy title, but for the newsletter
 i write for, it fits well.
                                 *drumroll*
                        The Cyber Space
                                 *boo hiss*
nevermindfuck


---------=====----aardvark
responding to
     |
     |
    \ /
     \
> 
>-- Andy
>Author of "Thriving on Chaos Theory," and "Everything I Ever Really
>Needed to Know I Learned in Cyberspace." :)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.sex,alt.sex.stories.d,alt.industrial
From: behrenss@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Soenke Behrens)
Subject: Re: ROBO-COPULATION
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:19:40 GMT

sgreever@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steven Greever) writes:

[Discussion about CyberSex (tm) deleted]

>Please!!!! I don't mean to sound like flame bait but what kind of
>drugs have you been all taking??  I find your discussions stupid and
>offensive.  Sex can and should be only between mongamous partners
>who can have children together.  Everything else is not sex; it is
>SODOMY.

Yeah sure ;-) Read a encyclopedia and look up sex ... you'll find that
your definition is somehow warped.

>too; such un-genteel discussion is NOT for their ears (or mine, for that
>mater)  The Bible tells us the meaning of sex; why should we go against i
>?

Umm ... are you making fun of us? If so: Congrats, you managed to make me
laugh :) If not: Oh do shut up, Mr. Spock. Go get a life.

Soenke
-- 
===========================================================================
More than silver, more than gold, I need   !    behrenss@informatik.
electricity. I need it for my dreams.      !    tu-muenchen.de
(RACTER)                                   !  FIDO: 2:246/13 Soenke Behrens
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: jason@wc20.writer.yorku.ca (Jason Nolan)
Subject: Re:  on sexism in Cyberpunk
Organization: York University
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 23:36:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.000521.20404@yang.earlham.edu>  
jessec@yang.earlham.edu writes:

>    Gee, what a reasonable, intelligent, supported micro-critique of 
> feminism.  Groan.
>    I think if your friend has any good arguments about the subgenre (to  
be 
> fair, she should read at least two or three short stories to get a sense 
> of it) you should listen to them.  I'd also be curious to know-- does  
she 
> read any science fiction at all? Which authors/periods? (I'd assume  
she'd 
> go for Wilhelm, Russ, LeGuin, Tiptree, the great feminist stars of the  
New 
> Wave?) In the meantime, she might want to read Joan Gordon's essay in-- 
> urgh-- I believe the Winter '89 issue? of *Science Fiction EYE* (I have 
> it, if you want I'll look to see when it was).  The title: "Yin and Yang 
> Duke it Out: Is Cyberpunk's Feminism New Age?" In it, she talks about  
the 
> obsession that women writers of SF have had with utopias as a limiting 
> tradition, and considers the possibilities opened up for women in the 
> exploration of (believe I'm quoting correctly) a "radically imperfect 
> world".
>    Personally, I'm ambivalent as to whether or not c'punk literature was 
> particularly feminist or not.  There are definitely a lot of strong  
women 
> in Shirley's novels, and there's an awareness of certain aspects of 
> reality that the big male authors have not been strong on, i.e. rape and 
> the existence of legitimate same-sex attractions.  Gibson's focus on his 
> women wavers, threatens at times to collapse into cardboard film-noir 
> conventions, but occasionally he really seems to come through... Molly, 
> Marly, and Kumiko Yanaka are such moments.  And what he implies is as 
> important as what's there; I'm recalling a scene in *Count Zero* where 
> there's a brief conversation between Turner and an anonymous woman, a 
> black-medic, who mentions her (female!) partner and their kid...
>    Well, it's something to argue about... anyway, don't take men like  
Mr. 
> Steiner so seriously.  It's not like that sort ever listens to reason.  
:-)
> 
> 
>    --Jesse.
> 
>    "Nonsense doesn't break down the codes; speaking precisely that which 
> the codes forbid breaks the codes."
> 
>                                    --Kathy Acker
>                                      *Empire of the Senseless*


Thanks for speaking so clearly.  Glad that not all of us are BDA's

Jason Nolan