HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ross@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ross Hippely - Manuals)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Summary: AmigaGuide docs from C= a good idea
Keywords: amigaguide
Date: 28 Dec 92 21:10:22 GMT
Reply-To: ross@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ross Hippely - Manuals)
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <BzxKuJ.G3J@NeoSoft.com> peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>As for dealers... 
[...]
> ...I decided to play Windows Head and
>asked if they had a help system on the Amiga... I'd been told that there was
>this thing called "Guide". They couldn't find a *single* program that used
>AmigaGuide, and tried to tell me that the Amiga was better because it didn't
>waste space on online documentation. Now I'm a member of the Committee for
>the Common Man, a group working on standards for online documentation, so that
>was the *WRONG* thing to say.
>
>Damnit, Commodore, how long would it take to put AmigaGuide docs for all the
>workbench tools online?

Unknown.  We are looking at it.  It is not necessarily as simple as it would
appear, just to produce the docs.  Then there are the disk space concerns,
and so on.

Naturally, I can't disagree with your basic point :-/

Contact information for the Committee you mentioned, if you think it would
be relevant to future AmigaGuide docs from Commodore, would be appreciated.

>Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
> `-_-'   Oletko halannut suttasi tnn?
>  'U`    
>Tarjoilija, tm ateria el viel.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Hippely:                                               Technical Writer
employed by, not speaking for:              Commodore Business Machines Inc.
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 18:49:56 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Dec27.201849.28679@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> <72477@cup.portal.com>

>finest, millions of people who think Rosanne Arnold is a gifted and
>talented national treasure

I don't. But certainly Tom Arnold is the funniest comedian ever.
Even funnier than Lenny Bruce.

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
From: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipset
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:32:16 GMT
Reply-To: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Organization: Flying Cat, Inc.

In article <38092@cbmvax.commodore.com> andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
>In article <1i74VB2w164w@admiral.uucp> andyp@admiral.uucp (Andy Patrizio) writes:
>
>>What amazes me is that Marc has stayed on this long. I mean, I saw the 
>
>I don't think you can count him as 'here'.  He probably doesn't buy
>Amiga hardware or software, and certainly doesn't contribute
>to the Amiga community (unless you count his campaign to keep WordPerfect
>off the Amiga as a 'contribution'.)

BTW, in case it wasn't clear, I did NOT regard Marc's statements about
starting an anti-Amiga WordPerfect letter writing campaign when someone
on .advocacy was advocating starting a pro-Amiga WordPerfect letter
writing campaign about 6 months ago as a contribution to the Amiga community.

			andy
-- 
andy finkel		andy@cbmvax.commodore.com

"Unix is the Operating System of the future, and always will be."

Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
From: robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CD-ROM applications
Date: 27 Dec 92 01:25:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.Bzw9AB.8Ev
Distribution: world
Organization: a gora

In article <BzqJtE.L4q@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
> () writes:
>>Are American tax forms really that difficult to fill out? 

  Most of the forms aren't that complicated, but US tax laws change with
some regularity, which means the tax forms may change from year to year,
making last year's CR-ROM obsolete.

>   The CD-ROM has a miriad [sic] of applications.  Just be creative.  Wasn't  
>the Amiga once called "the computer for the creative mind"? 


  Obviously Commodore had to drop that slogan after Marc bought an Amiga.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipset
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 07:32:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.025437.850@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:
>Not that any company that markets a $175 CDTV contraption for recognizing
>incoming phone calls is a credible source for anything mind you. Perhaps
>if they developed a *good* tax preparation program, they wouldn't place
>the onus on everybody else.

   They have, for IBM CD-ROM.  Unfortunately, CD-ROM technology has not caught
on at all in the Amiga market.  CDTV excluded, of course, since it is not a
modern Amiga with an up-to-date OS and graphics capabilities.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
From: monster@mbear.apana.org.au (Martin Ozolins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn-beta 1.16g (10.12.92) by Michael B. Smith & Mike Schwartz
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: 25 Dec 92 10:18:43 PST
Organization: Bears Incorporated

In article <1992Dec22.153227.19928@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> I disagree.  Why is it, then, that Amiga programs *don't* have consistent

But you disagree on everything that is not OS/2 or Windows.
You want ALL programs to look the same, how boring.

> user interfaces?  IMHO, screens are useful on the Amiga for two reasons.

Pity that your biased opinion means ZERO to intelligent people

> First, they are a speed optimization, which isn't necesary on systems with
> decent GUI performance.  Second, some applications need to work at certain

That cancels out Unix X-Windows and Windows, very slow

> screen resolutions, and this wouldn't be the case if the Amiga had DIG.

-- 

Martin Ozolins :Internet monster@mbear.apana.org.au
Victoria       :FIDO 3:633/359.6 AMIGANET 41:300/359.6 TRINET 42:8699/8.6
Australia      :Amiga Programmer, UniSYS 1100/2200 Systems Programmer
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:39:31 GMT
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
:
: >My statement was about Windows, not DOS.  AmigaOS lacks certain features of
: >Windows, and vice versa.  The point is, they are different; they were
: >designed
: >for different markets and purposes, so comparing them is like comparing
: >Porsches to Mercedes-Benz S-Class sedans.
:
: They do a similar task--they play the part of operating system.
:

Yep, just like the Porsche and the Benz -- they play the part of automobile,
yet you can't compare them.

Just take a look at the two.  Windows was designed to work with mainstream
(very large) applications, so it has virtual memory, unlike AmigaOS.
Windows was also designed to work on hundreds of different machines with
vastly different hardware, so it has complete device independence, unlike
AmigaOS.  On the other hand, AmigaOS was designed to work with video and
other realtime applications, so it has very efficient multitasking and a
tiny context switch time, unlike Windows.  Don't you see that it doesn't
make sense to compare them?

:
: AmigaOS, designed from the ground up to be an OS, has obvious merits,
: as does Windows.  But in the end, if you want Windows to be an OS,
: you'll have to go the way they have of NT.  Because in the end, it's
: nothing more than a program that sits on top of MS-DOS, and plays the
: part of system-wide moderator.
:

Nope, it's an OS.  It does not "sit on top of DOS"; it replaces everything
that DOS provides in terms of device management, memory management, etc.  It
provides every conceivable OS service, yet you refuse to call it an OS.  For
some reason, you prefer to call it "a program that plays the part of system-
wide moderator and allows user-written subprograms, blah, blah, blah".  Can't
you see how ridiculous this is, and how stubborn you are being?

: Greg
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: VistaPro & clones
Date: 3 Jan 93 10:36:09 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <1993Jan2.201806.27708@samba.oit.unc.edu>, John.Carver@launchpad.unc.edu (John Carver) writes:
> 
> You know that program called VistaPro for the Amiga?
> 
> There is a mention of it in this month's Popular Science, page 45,
> "Electronics Newsfront", but not the Amiga version.  It says:
> 
> "... Terra-forming Mars or taking walks around Crater Lake, for example,
> are both possibile with Virtual Reality Labs new $130 Vistapro landscape
> generator for IBM compatibles..."
> 
> No mention of Amigas, or the fact that this is hardly new and that the
> same software, written for the Amiga in the first place, costs a lot
> less than $130.  Maybe we should write to them and say, "This program
> has been available for Amigas for years, and is in fact a port to
> MS-DOS'.  In addition, the Amiga has other similar products such as
> Scenery Animator."

	Yes, I've noticed this too.  I think the reason is is that most
	people who use PCs and MACs see the Amiga as a toy ( ignorant
	SOBs ) and if the software products like VistaPro, SuperBase,
	and Mathematica advertise versions for the Amiga, then they will
	not be taken seriously.  Remember PC users are a touchy and 
	insecure bunch.  They have to be constantly reassured that the 
	PC is the best and most capable or they will whine and stomp
	their feet.  Could you imagine if, suddenly, the computing powers
	that be declared that the Amiga was a very capable and desireable
	system, what havoc that would wreck?  Wives would be telling their
	husbands that they were jerks for buying that clone, bosses would be
	screaming at their computer people for being ignorant.  etc. etc.

	Sales of all the PC-Cheerleading magazines would plummet and no one
	would buy the "How to use your boot-leg copy of MicroSoft Excel"
	books.  Naturally, there would be a huge economic crisis, the US would
	fall to the Japanese and the Communists would regain power in the
	former Soviet-Union.

	Imagine next time you're at lunch and you overhear the two people
	talking at the next table about how they finaly got the latest
	screen saver working on their PC system and fixed the autoexec.bat
	/EMM386.EXE problem.  They would be crushed to know that these 
	problems do not exist on the Amiga and they would be forced to 
	talk about actual work problems.

	Well I guess you can see the results: a demoralized US with starving
	people like Somalia run by a third world dictator with a long beard.
	No, I thing things are OK the way they are.


> 
>    John
> 
> --
>    The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
>      North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
>         Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
>            internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
- Fred
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Date: 27 Dec 92 19:29:07 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Dec26.204912.14405@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> by jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel):
> John Bickers (jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz) wrote:

> : > Come on, Peter -- that's a bit cynical.  I can show you several OS books
> : > which consider DOS an OS.
> :
> :     And this is really naive. I can show you several magic books which
> :     consider magic to be real.

> It's all a matter of definition, isn't it?  The think I find annoying is that
> you think that *your* definition is the only one that matters.

    I think to you it IS just a matter of definition. The extent to
    which you shift your choice of definitions around is what makes
    your arguments a waste of time.

    It's sort of like two people arguing about the merits of planes
    and helicopters, then a third person starts arguing about the
    definition of "fly".

> | JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
From: Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Does reading this gr
X-Sender: newtout 0.05 Dec 30 1992
Date: 29 Dec 92  23:51:04

> Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
> From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
> Message-ID: <C022Bw.AwM@news.iastate.edu>
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
>
>   Yes, CignusEd Pro, SAS C, and Real 3-D are really good examples of
> productivity software.  All these go hand-in-hand with WordPerfect,
> Adobe Illustrator, and MS Works.  NOT!

YES.  If you are a programer or an animator, those are really good examples
of productivity software.  Its all relative.

> -!-
> | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
> -!------------------------------------------------

 -Dances With Coyotes - World's slowest programer-Given that God is infinate-
 -AKA Dances V2.0, Coyote, Critter, Magnet, Major-and  that  the universe is-
 -- Former Net-Lurker - YES, an AMIGA godammit! --also  infinate,  would you-
 --- Still limping along with AmigaOS 1.3  :(  ---like a toasted  tea  cake?-


--- Maximus 2.01wb
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 07:56:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.065457.16927@ra.msstate.edu> jmpierce@whale.st.usm.edu (Jimmy Malcolm Pierce) writes:
> (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>>...or run text-based program from other floppy disks.  Can the Amiga 
>>boot off a floppy?  Uh huh.  Then what do the vast majority of 
>>Amigans do?  *Right*.  They swap disks.
>
>  Of course, they could do what I did to my Amiga, bought an external
>drive. So both of my Amigas have an external floppy, much easier to move
>them from machine to machine than ms-dog machines floppy drives. DJ.

What?  What?  You know, for most people, most MS-**DOG** people
(never mind the fact that we were talking about OS/2) booting from a
floppy is done in *emergencies* when the _large_ harddrive isn't
accessible for some reason.  And like a typical Amigan, you'll find
*some* way to twist PC's (OS/2 or MS-DOS) use of harddrives into being
a disadvantage because Amigas usually don't have harddrives to depend on.

Woo woo.  Besides, Jimmy, many PCs have dual floppies *anyway*, so 
your point is doubly-moot.
r
>         Jim Pierce Bach. of Sci. in Applied Computer Science USM 
>             jmpierce@whale.st.usm.edu  Disclaimer: Standard.
--
Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  
"Yes Dan, I have heard of Ultima Underworld.  From my point of view it
 appears to be a rather large stick which you seem to be using to beat
 everbody in this group with." -Mark Steyn, comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 20:45:05 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

John Bickers (jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz) wrote:
:
:     Under Unix if you can't get at the other programs in memory, you
:     just nail their files.
:

You can't do that on a properly-maintained Unix system (one with proper file
permissions).

:
: *** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: monster@mbear.apana.org.au (Martin Ozolins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn-beta 1.16g (10.12.92) by Michael B. Smith & Mike Schwartz
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Date: 1 Jan 93 08:21:13 PST
Organization: Bears Incorporated

In article <1992Dec29.160521.4069@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> John Bickers (jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz) wrote:
> :
> : > So is your claim that a 512K Amiga can run "current feature level"
> : > applications.  So my analogy holds perfectly, while you're just whining.
> :
> :     Absurd. A 512KB Amiga can and does run such applications.
> :
> 
> Right.  You think a 512KB Amiga (with no virtual memory, of course), could
> ever run something like Word?  FrameMaker?  Quicken?  Improv?  Paradox?
> Falcon 3?  Ultima Underworld?  Think again, denizen.

Sure, if they were properly written for the amiga.

Ever heard of overlays ? where only the code that is needed is loaded
into memory ?


-- 

Martin Ozolins :Internet monster@mbear.apana.org.au
Victoria       :FIDO 3:633/359.6 AMIGANET 41:300/359.6 TRINET 42:8699/8.6
Australia      :Amiga Programmer, UniSYS 1100/2200 Systems Programmer 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: benw@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (bennett.weber)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:10:08 GMT

(Paul Prescod) writes:
>If I wanted a Nintendo, I would buy a Nintendo.  In today's lingo a
>"computer" is something with a monitor, hard drive and 2MB of RAM.
>
>An A500/A600 is a toy.

Oh, Jeez, THAT's why I've been getting no output...no monitor or RAM!

Seriously, thanks for clearing up "today's lingo"... tomorrow's
secret word is "imbecile".

Tell me what my home computer needs to be able to do
that it does not already do?

My neighbors bought a $3000 PC system so they could write occasional letters
to their Aunt Matilda...THAT makes sense?

						Ben Weber

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amiga 500 - 120 Meg HD - 44 Meg Sysquest - 9 Meg RAM - Detached keyboard
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Date: 23 Dec 1992 02:33:06 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au



das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:

[blah]

>#4 You Amigans cannot run MSDOS at all, and threfore cannot run
>such incredible games such as Ultima Underworld and Falcon 3.0.  So there.

Wow Dan, I bet you're glad someone wrote these two games, otherwise your
posts would be a whole lot shorter ;-)

>>I can't wait to see the next one...seventh guest.  2 CDs of three
>>dimensional raytracing in ONE game.  

Ahhh, now this _does_ sound good!  But lets see the final version before
before everyone rushes out to buy a generic mainstream computer.

>I wish I had a CD ROM!

>-- 
>Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  
>"Yes Dan, I have heard of Ultima Underworld.  From my point of view it
> appears to be a rather large stick which you seem to be using to beat
> everbody in this group with." -Mark Steyn

Oooh, ow, ouch..stop it Dan that large stick _really_ hurts ;-)
(and yes I have played it, its a good game , but do you have to mention it
in virtually every post?)

Torban Bennett -- torban@murdoch.edu.AU --->
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: 1200/4000 pricing
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 06:22:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.180028.13742@midway.uchicago.edu> sjchmura@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>When you add this up, add tax and shipping, you can hit
>$1300 and still not have a monitor!

This price is quite high. In Canada, the three pieces are going for $1300 or
~$1000 U.S. This includes a 40 MB drive and 1960 multisync. For an additional,
$79, most dealers will bundle an 80 MB drive.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 18:37:45 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
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NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org wrote:
: >
: > The Mac has had a useful clipboard since day one.
:
: So  has  the  Amiga.   Nobody  seems  to  want  to use it, though.
			 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bingo.
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: dfs5716@usl.edu (Seidel Daniel F)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:31:47 GMT

oops forgot a without in the last few sentences ... you know about the PC's
screeching to a halt WITHOUT the hd's etc etc etc
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: John.Carver@launchpad.unc.edu (John Carver)
Subject: VistaPro & clones
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 20:18:06 GMT


You know that program called VistaPro for the Amiga?

There is a mention of it in this month's Popular Science, page 45,
"Electronics Newsfront", but not the Amiga version.  It says:

"... Terra-forming Mars or taking walks around Crater Lake, for example,
are both possibile with Virtual Reality Labs new $130 Vistapro landscape
generator for IBM compatibles..."

No mention of Amigas, or the fact that this is hardly new and that the
same software, written for the Amiga in the first place, costs a lot
less than $130.  Maybe we should write to them and say, "This program
has been available for Amigas for years, and is in fact a port to
MS-DOS'.  In addition, the Amiga has other similar products such as
Scenery Animator."

   John

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy