HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cbar40@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: BBC (was the EBC)
Date: 12 Jan 93 12:38:59 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article <1993Jan11.134418.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, clgs11@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
> In article <1993Jan11.131658.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
>> In article <1993Jan11.122512.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, cbar26@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
>>> In article <1993Jan11.114324.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> PS We dont really want that plonker David Mellor as a Rnagers fan as he
>>>> admitted on Radio 5>
>>> He keeps very good company, does he not?  Brian Meek (tory), Alan Massie
>>> (tory), Andy and Alec Cameron (comedians), Mr Abie and Ben Gunn (comedians!),
>>> Ian Botham (tory), Scottish Office tories who scuppered the Hampden
>>> redevelopment in union with the powers at Ibrox, the Sun journalists
>>> (comedians) who set up the not so successful venture into paperdom with Mr
>>> Murray, the Carnegie Partnership, ill-mannered"fat-cats" referred to recently
>>> who probably all vote tory, Mrs Thatcher, nearly all Scottish tories and Wet,
>>> Wet, Wet.  Additions welcome;-).
>> 
>> 
>> 	Just goes to show it's the Peoples Game with supporters coming from
>> all walks of life to support their team  :-)
>> 
>> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>                                        +
>> Sandy Mackinnon,                       + 
>> At the Cutting Edge of Fuel Science,   + 
>> University of Strathclyde,             +      cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk 
>> Glasgow,                               + 
>> Scotland.                              +  
>> 	  	                       +
>> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>> 		Don't mention the Quadruple...............
>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Dear Sandy, 
> 
>  Please enlighten us to this one. You surely don't mean the Camlachie
> Stanklifters Quiz night, do you ????????
> 
> 
And if yir no in the Tennent's Sixes, could you be meaning the Glasgow Cup?

Dan
CBAR40@VAXA.STRATH.AC.UK
From: mcsdc1jpb@dct.ac.uk (john bell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Why Liverpool????
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:14:03 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

In article <1993Jan6.113629.9329@meiko.com>, esp@meiko.co.uk writes:
> 
> 
>  
> Shame on you lot!!!
> 
> Don't get me wrong I've nothing against the supporters of the Liverpools, Man U's and Leeds of this World.... as long as they live in or around Liverpool, Manchester or Leeds. But it's those who simply support these teams because... well they win a lot... they're big teams... they're in Europe... etc etc. They think they're special because they rarely have to face the possiblity of defeat. Pathetic!! They deserve no respect from any real football fan! I ask you, where's the passion? 
> 
> I just wish this lot would look over their shoulder and take a look at their local teams, OK the quality may not be too good, but to these teams and their supporters every game is about survival and the dream of one day being up there with the big boys.
> 
> One of the saddest moments in football in recent years was when Aldershot folded. That day a few thousand people in Aldershot had their hearts broken. I wonder if any of the Liverpool or Leeds fans living in Aldershot, who never bothered watching their local team because they were in the 4th division, (and where was the pride in that??), felt guilty, I hope so!!!!
> 
> Thing is, things are getting worse! We now have a guy in Scotland supporting AC Milan. What reason other than the fact that Milan are unbeaton in the past two seasons in Serie A would a guy support a team on the other side of the continent?

if you are referring to me, i have supported AC since around 84, when they were
crap and juventus were winning everything. And as for all this bollocks about
supporting your local side, i do. I live 17 miles from dundee and indeed
support the super dees. I have been to over 250 matches in the last few years
Who the hell do you support then?

> 
> I wonder how long it will be before this lot start supporting Germany, instead of their own country,, because Germany has won the World Cup more times than most????? Same principle!!!!!!
> 
> I figure this may provoke some reaction....... Come on guys defend yourselves!!
> 
> Steve
> 
> Support Your LOCAL team!!!!
-- 
 
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  |                                                  ++ Tayside           |
  | F  O  R  Z  A                                    ++ Scotland          |
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  |  e-mail :  mcsdc1jpb@dct.ac.uk.dundee institute of technology         | 
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: waddlech@wam.umd.edu (David Akkarach)
Subject: Re: US Soccer News
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:39:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.163708.4298@abo.fi> MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
>In <1993Jan5.075249.26226@leland.Stanford.EDU> melcat@leland.Stanford.EDU writes:
>> To sum up:  my logic is this-  the US is roughly the size of Europe.  If 
>> Europe can sustain several leagues, why can't the US?  
>
>...because we don't have any pro leagues in baseball or American Football, 
>and damn few in basketball and hockey for that matter. No college sports
>either. Soccer is the only major league sport in town over here. In Europe, 
>even a lousy semi-pro team can generate a
>lot of excitement. Why should Americans watch sandlot soccer when they have
>truckloads of pro and college teams playing other sports? You don't have to
>dislike soccer to ask that question.
>
>The main problem with your proposal is we don't have enough American players 
>for the system to work. If you have been following this newsgroup for awhile
>you've probably seen my proposal for a new  North American league. I only
>included 16 teams in my plan (three of them in Canada, with mainly Canadian
>players), yet I sometimes wonder if permitting "only" four foreign players
>per team will be enough! Soccer in the States has been improving by leaps and
>bounds since the 1960s, yet there is not enough players, fans or general
>interest in the game for 50 or 100 "major league" teams to survive. But 
>there should be a _minor_ league system modelled on the same pattern
>as baseball's A/AA/AAA system, I agree about that.

The _fact_ why the system won't work here is that there simply is not
enough _good American players_  for the creation of a top flight
league. In this country, only the very good players stand out among the
thousands of the mediocre college players. Sure they have very good
technical skills but how many of those can create space and pass into
open space spontaneously without having to hear their coach shout
directions for them? Why are most American players missing this creative
quality? From my playing time, i see that very few Americans play pick
up soccer and instead only play when the game is organised; goals with nets
and coaches around. If they want to develop better players with vision and
tactical awareness, then these players must play the game in a more free(er)
environment, without the structured rules and coaching. That's why these
days when you watch a college match it seems that there's robots running
around and making predictable passes and shots.

Some of you might counter against me by displaying examples such as
Harkes and Ramos. Well, the town where Harkes, Ramos and Meola grew up,
they played unorgranised soccer on a daily basis, and look at how these
sandlot skills have developed these players. Until the day you see
Americans playing pickup soccer out in the local parks, etc...then you
know that soccer has finally succeded in this country.

-Dave
From: ckna@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Quiz : English League
Date: 6 Jan 93 13:56:05 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


A friend and I seek answers to the following questions on the English 
League.Anyone who has answers or even guesses could please email them to 
either csfraw@vehka.uta.fi or   ckna@ac.dal.ca

Thank you all,
Christian

***************************************************************************

22) All four, during their playing career, played for the same team. Then they
    all left to work overseas. Each of them managed his club to win the clubs
    national league. Name the four managers, their clubs, and the year this 
    happened.

23) In 1982 the English Under-18 national team played a 2-leg european cup
    qualifying matches against Scotland. The English line-up was as follows

	game 1: Francis, Yallop, Winterburn, Singleton, (Lewis),Elliott, Robson
		Snodin,Dey,Foster,Harle(Stewart),Walters

	game 2: Francis, Parker, Pickering, Duffield, Elliott, Robson,Singleton
		Steven(Bell), Pearson, Walters, Childs.

    Which of these players have since then played in the National team "adults"


4) Which player has played the most league games in division 1.


11) Gary Lineker didn't succeed in doing it last year ('92), but others were 
    successful. Who were those ?


12) Name the league players who took part in the Barcelona olympic games
   ( i think the names of some USA/Australian/Polish under-23 players in the 
     league will do)


14) Darren Roberts of Wolverhamption scored a hattrick when playing for the
    first time  in the starting lineup in the english league. Who managed to do
    the same before him?

18) Which country's present national team manager played 67 league games - all
     for Reading FC ?

20) Name the former national player collected the most yellow cards (warnings )
   last season

21)  Which incident links Steve Nicol to  Graham Ricks ?


24) Who is this player ? He plays for the same country and the same club as his
    grandfather did 40 years ago.



thanks

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: pauldv@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Paul Devine)
Subject: SSL
Organization: University of Sussex
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:12:10 GMT

Scottish Super League.
         -----

Pull the other one!
From: morphet@cguhpa.cgu.mcc.ac.uk (Helen Morphet)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Liverpool lose again !
Date: 12 Jan 93 13:22:48 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

Yes, my boys got beaten fair and square (I was there, unfortunately). 

Liverpool, despite having most of the possession in the first half, were unable to finish the job off. Macmanaman was all over the place, slipping, bumping heads. He seems totally incapable of fighting off a challenge: a defender comes along and it's as if he says "Here have this ball, it's yours". Pathetic. 

I could go on, but the main problem seems to be a lack of team spirit: John Barnes captained on Saturday. Why? None of the players communicated with each other, consequently they lost the ball again and again.

And significantly, the Kop remained deadly quiet throughout the match: The Villa supporters were in fine voice - I wasn't impressed with the 'in your Liverpool slums' song, but 'Big fat Ron's claret and blue army' were there in force.

It won't be too long before 'Souness out' will be heard ringing round the Kop.

Graeme, we don't love you with all our hearts.

Helen.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: ckee@is.morgan.com (Clark Kee)
Subject: Re: AYSO and the destruction of american soccer
Organization: Morgan Stanley - IS
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:34:28 GMT

I must take issue with several points in your post.
>many leagues have subscribed to the AYSO way of thinking.
>everybody plays an equal amount, no matter how good the player is.
>this defeats the beauty of competition.  kids do not have ambition
>to get better cause they know that AYSO is going to get them
>nowhere.
You may be generalizing on the basis of your own experience, here. A number
of AYSO players have gone on to become outstanding adult players. Paul
Caligiuri is one who comes to mind. AYSO is not alone in believing that
the most important thing for young players is to have fun. If they have fun
they'll stick with it, and maybe develop into good players. If they don't have
fun they may quit without discovering their potential.

>i graduated from this system and i can testify that is sucks.
>i started playing at age 5 and did not hit a real competitive
>league until i was about 14.  that is 7 years of wasted play.
If you didn't learn any techniques or tactics, it was wasted. Otherwise,
you were learning the game.

>i did enjoy myself a bit, but competition was frowned upon.
>it was not good for the team.  unfortunatly this system is still
>in use in many in-house leagues and it stifles competition and
>the drive to get better.
I don't know where your early experience with AYSO was, and, like any
league, the specifics vary, but ... in my experience there's nothing about
AYSO that stifles the drive to get better. AYSO encourages coaches of younger
players in particular to compare the players' current performance to their past
performance. That certainly gives the players an opportunity to get better.

>for america to get real soccer, we must throw out the AYSO system of
>thinking and get real players!!!!!!!
How are you going to "get" players if you don't develop them. Kids develop
at different rates; a young player who is average one year may be relatively
better in his/her age group the next year. AYSO tries to encourage success
so that more players stay interested longer. Over time that might actually
produce more players (hence more players who are skilled) than a highly
competitive environment that scared off many players at an early age.

>just my thoughts.....bjpc
Glad you added this.

Clark Kee
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: tempelma@cs.utwente.nl (Frank Tempelman)
Subject: Re: Just another example of the 'fabulous' English
Organization: University of Twente, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:27:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.232218.23924@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, jcostas@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (constantinos.n.tsioras) writes:
|> > In article <1993Jan5.102553.9177@fwi.uva.nl> bronstri@fwi.uva.nl (Mischa Bronstring) writes:
|> > >
|> 
|> Well, even though this is a wind up by Mischa, what his argument proves is how
|> crap the lower divisions are in other countries.
|> Especially in Holland, everyone knows that apart from the top 3-4 same teams
|> (PSV, Ajax, Feyenoord) the rest of the First Division is a bit of a joke (:-))
|> 
Feyenoord does not belong to that list. They even have trouble beating teams
from Israel and Albany (sp?). 

BTW, maybe things are changing: other teams (FC Twente, MVV) are playing very
well this year (Ajax - FC Twente 0-1). Maybe it's not fair to focus on
Ajax and PSV only (the dutch team manager should also look around a bit more...).

Regards,

Frank
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: gwreich@athena.mit.edu (Greg Reich)
Subject: Re: AYSO and the destruction of american soccer
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:43:27 GMT

In article <t0d=DH-@engin.umich.edu>, bjpc@engin.umich.edu (Brian Jeffrey Cook) writes:
|> i saw some information posted about american youth soccer.
|> well i thought i would throw in my two cents.
|> 
|> many leagues have subscribed to the AYSO way of thinking.
|> everybody plays an equal amount, no matter how good the player is.
|> this defeats the beauty of competition.  kids do not have ambition
|> to get better cause they know that AYSO is going to get them
|> nowhere.
|> 
|> i graduated from this system and i can testify that is sucks.
|> i started playing at age 5 and did not hit a real competitive
|> league until i was about 14.  that is 7 years of wasted play.
|> i did enjoy myself a bit, but competition was frowned upon.
|> it was not good for the team.  unfortunatly this system is still
|> in use in many in-house leagues and it stifles competition and
|> the drive to get better.
|> 
|> for america to get real soccer, we must throw out the AYSO system of
|> thinking and get real players!!!!!!!
|> 
|> just my thoughts.....bjpc
|> 

I agree, although I've seen this same philosophy for other youth sports
as well.  At the youngest ages (say maybe under 10) I think it can be
good, because the kids need to be able to have playing time in order to
learn.  However, you are totally right in that it really stifles the
competitive spirit.

Greg


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Reich				"Only the good die young"
gwreich@athena.mit.edu				Billy Joel
From: solodov@monterey1.cs.wisc.edu (Mikhail V. Solodov)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: SUGGESTION FOR WORLD CUP GAMES ENDING IN TIES
Date: 9 Jan 93 23:43:33 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

In article <1993Jan9.014529.21612@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> rgj0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (RICHARD G. JOHNSTON) writes:
>The penalty kick procedure used to end tie games during the World Cup is, in
>my opinion, a poor solution to the problem. Here is my alternative to breaking
>ties. At the end of regulation make both sides play with only nine players for
>some period of time, maybe 10 minutes. If the game is still tied 1 more player
>would be pulled from each side every five or ten minutes. With such an
>approach at least the game would be determined on the field. Anyone who has
>played soccer realizes fewer players on the same size pitch opens up the game.  previous
>World Cup had too many teams trying to play to play to a scoreless tie in
>order to take their chances with penalty kicks. Any other alterantives?

  I think the intention is good, but not the proposed solution.
Having less players on the field the teams are even more likely to
concerntrate on defense. Especially because of fatigue after 
presumably tough game in regulation . And when less than 9 players
will be left on the field, it won't be a real football game any more,
it will be something else...
Michael.
From: cjones@dbaccess.com (Carl Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: AYSO and the destruction of american soccer
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:16:01 GMT
Organization: Cross Access Corp., Santa Clara, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

AYSO is dedicated to SAFE, FAIR, and FUN
It is also dedicated to "Everyone Plays".
It is primarily instructional.
In that regard, participation and instruction come 
before competition, which is why it is often referred
to as a "non-competitive" league.

Nevertheless, within those constraints, winning is 
desirable, kids and coaches love to get trophies
and make it to regional, area, and section tournaments.

Because of this attitude (in my humble opinion), it
attracts a far greater number of participants that if
it were strictly competitive, had tryouts, etc.
I believe that this broad spectrum of soccer knowledgeable
people (parents as well as kids) is necessary to the
growth and love of soccer in the U.S.

There are competitive youth leagues in the U.S. which
co-exist with AYSO.  In California there is a strong
CYSA (california youth soccer association) which is
definitely competitive.  They provide the environment
for the youth who, having played AYSO for several years,
realize that they want to develop their skills faster
and play to win.  

My daughter played 4 years of AYSO,
then played AYSO and CYSA both one season, and now is
playing CYSA exclusively.  My older son played 5 years
of AYSO before deciding that it was not for him; however,
he then turned to refereeing, which he has been doing for
the last 2.5 years (he is almost 16).  He is a USSF ref
and has been doing line for adult leagues (occasionally
as the center, too) as well as youth league games.
This is the way that the U.S. will have more FIFA referees!

So, there you have my feelings about AYSO.
I encourage you to aid in the creation of local soccer clubs
which will sponsor competitive youth teams to further the
development of future U.S. world class players.

carl jones

-- 
Carl Jones                        INTERNET: cjones@dbaccess.com
c/o CROSS ACCESS CORPORATION      UUCP: {uunet,sgiblab}!troi!cjones
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: J.M.Ross@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk (J.M.Ross)
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Subject: Re: kick back to keeper
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:46:56 +0000







In article <C0G8xw.KD0@shuksan> major@shuksan (Mike Schmitt) writes:

>: In it's infinite wisdom, the NCAA decided that the implementation of
>: the backpass rule (which all other countries implemented last July)
>: would be too much of a hardship for the college coaches to train their
>: players.
>:
>: Apparently, the NCAA will comply _next_ season.

>  You have to remember when the Federation season begins.  Their 'season'
>  starts with the beginning of the school year.  Therefore, the rules were
>  already in place for 92-93 (September-June).  So, when FIFA implemented
>  their 1992 Memorandum - effective July, the Federation (College/High School)
>  rules were already out - ready for September '92.

I fail to see why the NCAA has a problem with this. The season in most
European countries starts in August or September, they had no problem
implementing the rule changes. FIFA have there conference at the same
time every year and any rule changes are effective from the end of July,
most Associations know this and are ready to implement the rule changes
when they should. What's so special about the NCAA?

+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
!  James M. Ross                            ! ICL Computers Ltd   !
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer