HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: estokien@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eric Stokien)
Subject: Estrella '93
Summary: Questions 
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:07:34 GMT

It has been rumored by people I know that the Estrella war is going to have
to move for this next year.  This is supposably due to renovations at the
park, and possibly late reservations last year.

Does anyone know if this is true, and if it is, where the event is being 
moved to.  Much thanks to any who are in the know.

Frederic de Cherbourg
College of Boethius
Kingdom of Caid
From: jschmidt@oolong.Tymnet.COM (John Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: On the nature of armor....
Date: 17 Dec 92 01:31:55 GMT
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

Gentlemen, and all listening!

I've killed the references, and not quoted any articles, to cut the length
of this (Hassan, chop!).  In regards to armor--

I don't know of anyone who has used modern materials for a competitive edge
_as_their_main_reason.  Most "hot sticks" simply end up wearing less overall
armor; they tend to get hit much less, as well as sliding out of the blows
much better as well.  Some, in fact, wear much better armor--there's a 
certain estate for a duke to maintain.  

I do know quite a lot of people who used modern materials for convienience,
both in obtaining the material and maintaining it; for cheapness in keeping
a design they like, and for durability: when I saw all the plastic shields at
Pennsic, it was quite an eye opener to find out how many come from climates
where abused wet wood rots quickly.  (Still don't understand why all the
Calontir shields were aluminum.  Hey Pavel, Why?)

But in all cases, it is not the theory of armor that should be so closely
judged, but the practice: what do you wear, and how is your fighting and
calibration?  Aluminum armor in a Mongol style, done well, would beat carpet
armor easily.  Carpet armor done well beats duct tape over anything.  And
duct tape still beat plastic sports equipment showing, and neon sneakers.

Still, a little knowledge on pounding metal, baking leather or sewing pockets
goes a long way in armoring.  Me, I have squires to rag me on my armor until
it gets polished--a great help--and armorers of excellent quality now abound
here, unlike when I started.  

A note:  I, too, consider someone who takes too light to be a problem--if they
try to extend their calibration outward.  I will on occasion accept a well
thrown blow that lands lightly, but I see that the mechanics are such that I 
could have been hit hard; but I fought someone at Pennsic, who wore no armor,
and had to ask me after the fifth offside helm flick why I didn't die.  I
had not felt the blows to have any strength or technique; when one of my shots
landed, it dropped the poor gentleman, who was not prepared for it.  He was
playing a different game, had armored for it, and was upset when I was
(by his calibration) a rhino.  Still, I have never met someone who could not
throw an excellent killing blow if their technique is good, and I have 
seen several different styles of technique.

I welcome questions, clarifications, and comments, and wish you all, known
and unknown friends both, a joyous Christmas.

Sir John Theophilous/John Schmidt
jschmidt@tymnet.com
"Oh Duke Jade has done it again...he sits the throne with poise and dignity
He dipt his calendar in imperial compound... he'll win again June 93..."
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: colette@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Colette Goodyear)
Subject: Re: Drifting Away...
Keywords: iron, bronze, "vin"
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:38:29 GMT

In article <Bz45zG.DID@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us> mcdaniel@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Tim McDaniel) writes:
>
>An interesting note was on page 19:  "The early farm names from this
>period [late Roman] are often a combination with the syllable 'vin',
>meaning an open place in the forest."  Why are scholars so sure that
>"Vinland" means "wine land"?  Did "vin" in this meaning not last until
>1000AD?  Oh, where's Geirr Bassi when you need him?
>
>-- 
>Daniel of Lincoln, Burgh of Cynnabar / Tim McDaniel
>Internet: mcdaniel@{grex,m-net}.ann-arbor.mi.us, mcdaniel@adi.com

Thank you for the reference my lord, I need it.

The simple answer to your question is that they're _not_ sure
(at least up until ten years ago).  I refer you to Dr. Helge Ingstad
and Dr. Anne Stine Ingstad's books _The Discovery of a Norse
Settlement in America_ (1984: don't have publisher, Oslo).
Dr. Ingstad does believe that Vinland should be
translated as meadowland or grassland.  I may point out
too that to date the Drs. Ingstad are the only researchers
to find and excavate a Viking site in North America.  L'anse
aux Meadowes fits all the descriptions of Vinland with one
exception--the presence of grapes.  Hence Dr. Ingstad's
assertion that Vinland should properly be translated as
meadowland or similar as L'Anse aux Meadowes is a flat grassy
open area. (As a caveat:  current thinking is that Vinland refers to
a region, not a place, which solves the translation problem
quite nicely.)

The problem lies in the matter of a small accent...

Vin without the accent is translated open area, oasis, meadow
fertile land.

Vi'n (with the accent) is translated as grapes or (maybe) as berries.

For opposing views, you can look up pp. 298-306 in Gwyn Jones' _A
History of the Vikings_ (Oxford:  OUP, 1984) although he doesn't say
much about it and dismisses the idea out-of-hand.  You could also
check out _The Vinland Sagas_, p. 58 and p. 9.  Those are the only
two references I have on me at the moment.
 
There are numerous berries in the area but I remain unconvinced
that the translation could refer to the berries (which do make
good wine and better liquer).

The site also contains large quantities of bog iron BTW, and a
forge was found together with slag and some iron nails.

You might want to check out the northern region mailing list at
bransle (e-mail me for the complete address) where a discussion
on that very name is going on. A synopsis of the current state of
scholarship regarding the proper translation and extent of "Vinland" was
posted there not too long ago.

Lady Alienor Llanfaes (Defender of Viking Naming Practices!)
Shire of Ar n'Eilean-ne
(Colette Goodyear)
colette@morgan.ucs.mun.ca

Organization: Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:04:47 -0500 
From: "Andrea B. Gansley-Ortiz" <ag1v+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Knitting 

Gentles, I recommend me to you. I am most happy to be back in your company
as I have found a new place of employment which gives me the means to write
to you again.

A question. One I know has come up before, but I've never saved the
information.
I've discovered that there is only one handcraft that I've every proven any
good at in the past. And that is knitting. That being so, I would love to find
any information about period knitting. I knit continental style because I'm
left-handed. I vaguely recall something being mentioned about continental 
style the last time this subject came up.

I look forward to your responses. God be with you. Written on the Friday 
after the Annunciation of Our Lady.

Esmeralda la Sabia
From: pwr@jab.tucson.az.us (Patrick Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: On the nature of armor....
Keywords: Period, Authenticity, Appearance
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 18:28:38 MST
Organization: Just Another Bbs. Tucson, AZ

Volfred quotes Brian:
 
> Which is better?
> 
> A period outward appearance of your persona---
> 
>        Or
> 
> Meeting SCA standards with period materials and techniques---
> 
> In my mind the top answers are the best for me. But everyone has their opinio
 
In my opinion, the outward appearance is more important for the image of 
the SCA unto the public.  Likewise, the same holds true for our purpose 
at events.
 
We seek to create the atmosphere of Medieval times at our tournaments, 
feasts, and festivals.  The point is to learn about period lifestyles, 
and to implement as much of what we learn as we are able.

If members are going to insist that every tiny detail be completely 
authentic, then the SCA will most likely not survive.  People need to 
have affordable goals for the general membership in mind.
 
Most people in the SCA do not have the funds to be completely authentic 
as such.  At the same time, there are plenty of opportunities for the SCA 
to gain public funding for the betterment of public education.  Funds are 
also available for improving the appearance of the SCA as an 
organization, through public educational grants.
 
Why not really go for a good thing, rather than eliminate the best 
productive members we have?
 
Additionally, the argument over whether modern materials should be used 
in the construction of functional, period items is a mute point for the 
purpose of the SCA as an organization.  The SCA _encourages_ that we do 
so as members.
 
Volfred
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Membership Money
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:45:59 GMT



Could anyone tell me what happens to the money sent in for SCA memberships?
I have been curious for a while, and I don't really buy the storie that it is
spent on newsletters.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: guth@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (G.Guth)
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armor & New Game
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 07:42:26 GMT

In article <kfAK6cG00WB84db2wx@andrew.cmu.edu> David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>  It's an interesting psychological and intellectual exercise
>  to see WHERE and WHEN people want to be dropped off (presumably
>  to live out the rest of their lives) and also WHAT they decide
>  to take with them.
>
>How about some of the rest of you on the Rialto?
>WHERE?  WHEN?  and WHAT?

Sermoneta, Italy.  1560.  A few bags of sugar, the spice rack, and a supply
of modern fabric (to sell as a novelty).  Perhaps the portable stereo (with
batteries) and four or five favourite CDs....

Now if anyone figures out the psychology behind my choice of where and when,
they'll know what my favourite pastime (in the SCA anyway) is....

Oh yes, and an Italian-Englissh dictionary (although I wouldn't need it for
long)

Richard Britnell.
From: Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: You know you're in the SCA when...
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 22:51:51 EST
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Macsen writes, in reply to my message:
> 
>> You know you're in the SCA when...
> 
>> ...you give someone a hug, and when you see the expression on her face,
>> belatedly remember that you're wearing a rather well-stuffed
>> codpiece.
> 
> You have to stuff yours? <SEG>

Well, I didn't say what it was stuffed *WITH*...


> You'll be pleased to know we have a foot of snow here.  How's Trimaris
> treating you?

Oh, it's nice and cold here; why, just the other day it dipped down into
the low sixties...  :-p

And apart from certain Eastrealmers saying completely untrue (ie, nice)
things about me to certain Trimarians on Prodigeez, life's not too bad
at the moment...

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
              That man that hath a tongue, I say, is no man
              If with his tongue he cannot win a woman.
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:36:23 EST
From: John A. Jordan Ii. <JJ9262A@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Thank you re:survey

  My most sincere thanks to all who responded to my survey on households.
I hope to e-mail some follow-ups to those who responded, but it probably
won't happen until after the New Year as I'm probably going to lose my net
access for about a month.

    Again, thanks to all who responded.
               Jester of Anglesea (MKA: Tony Jordan)

From: Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Through a looking glass, darkly
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:16:16 -0500

troll@sug.org (A. Newman) writeth:

 AN> Join the Storytellers Mailing list!  storytellers-request@world.std.com

Have you considered taking over the Bardic list, which appears to be dead (as in
not just unused, but broken)?  We of Fidonet are starting to use it more and
would LOVE to have some Usenet folks join in - just tell me a working address! 
Otherwise, we're going to declare it a "colony" of the Fidonet Medieval echo,
thus part of my "empire"....


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Face-thrust force
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 17:44:07 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Dec10.115241.9427@ac.dal.ca> sinister@ac.dal.ca writes:
>	Unto the good folk of the Rialto does Cosmano send greetings!
>
>In article <92Dec09.233134.20850@acs.ucalgary.ca>, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>> But then I also feel broadswords should have minimum and maximum
>> weight restrictions, based on period weapons, and that we should
>> allow more grappling and disarming technique than we currently
>> do.
>> 
>
>	1 for 2 in this statement-pair.  More grappling?  Eeek!  I'm not all 
>that large a lad;  I dislike toe-to-toeing with a few people here because
>if they keep walking and I stand-still...  well it's like a Subaru vs a 
>Snowplow.  The idea of one of these kind and gentle souls being able to 
>sheild-bash me or hook the legs out from under me is a tad scary.

Well, I was thinking of a separate authorization, and a separate
kind of fighting. Call it "tourney a outrance" or something...

Carolus Malvoix
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
From: Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 00:33:33 EST
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Bertram, on yet another semi-tangent, asks:
> 
>   How often do folks chose personas that are _connected_ to their
>   actual racial/ethnic background, versus the stereotypical
>   "blond samurai" ?

Well, a mundane ancestor of mine, a Norman nobleman named Lord Richard
de Vernon, fought in the Conquest of England, after which Hugh Lupus
awarded him the Barony of Shipbrook, in Chester County.

Godfrey is the half-Norman illegitimate son of one of de Vernon's
daughters; as his grandfather wouldn't recognise him as an heir
(after all, Richard had three *legitimate* sons, if I recall
correctly), Godfrey took the last name `de Shipbrook' instead.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
    "The only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality
    is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes."
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:18:27 GMT


    Martin de Mont Blanc wrote:

 AT> Our group exists right at the edge of the world, in the far far
 AT> Southern Reaches.  We only know the richness and variety of the SCA
 AT> in the Greater Known World from photos and the tales of travellers.
 AT> In looking at all the photos which have made their way down to us, I
 AT> notice the complete absence of black faces.  Why is that?

 Maybe they have more sense than the rest of us ... 8-) (It ought not to be
 a *complete* absence - our Knight Marshal and MOAS are both black - in
 fact, they met in the SCA and recently had a second-generation SCAer...)

 AT> Is the SCA in some way culture-specific in not being interesting to
 AT> blacks?

 Most likely. Unless they adopt a North African persona or stretch the
 "visting" metaphor to its breaking point, what natural place is there in
 an organization that concentrates on Western Europe during the Middle
 Ages? Doesn't really have much to do with *their* cultural heritage.

 Actually, I find encouraging the number who actually do wind up
 participating; I don't think I've ever been in a group that didn't have at
 least one or two. I guess if one can cope with being black in modern
 America, being black in the SCA is a piece of cake....

 AT>  or is there some prejudice involved?

 Very doubtful. SCA folk tend to be the least prejudiced of any I've ever
 seen - and that included four years at a Liberal Eastern College. I'll see
 if I can get Lord Abd 'al-Mahdi or Lady Valeria on the board here to
 address that....

    Tadhg, Obelisk

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Information on San Antonio, Tx wanted
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:34:06 GMT


 KC> I am traveling back to the mundane place of San 
 KC> Antonio, Texas (sorry I am not
 KC> sure what the SCA name for the area is) for Christmas 
 KC> to visit relatives. I

 I'm not sure why, but we got your message twice....

 San Antonio is the Barony of Bjornsborg.  Baroness Mari ferch Raythen is
 their leader.  You can reach her (Karen Moon) at 210/523-5363.  Their  seneschal, Lady Leidrun  (Liesa Kister) is at 210/521-4655.

 The Black Star doesn't list any events in Bjornsborg over Christmas, but they 
 could be holding a private revel, and may also be having regular practices
 or guild meetings during the holidays.

 Hope this helps!

 -- Vashti


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Diane.Pilkington@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Diane Pilkington)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Children in the sca
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:22:12 GMT


 -=> Quoting Doug Young to All <=-

 [he confirms that he won't allow anyone under the age of 25 to stay
 in his encampment at wars]

 DY> From experience we have found that young people should camp with other
 DY> young people or with their parents.

 I am 24 years old. I object strongly to the above statement 
 on the following grounds:

 (a) My parents are not now nor have they ever been members of
 the SCA. The closest contact either of them has had with the
 SCA is when my mother drove me to an event some years back.
 I joined the SCA at age 18, my first semester of college.

 (b) I actively dislike the company of people "my own age"; as
 a general rule, they are a rowdy, shallow, thoughtless lot.
 Emphasis is on -rowdy-. I have always gotten along much better
 with people who are at least five years older than I. I would
 be insulted if the Baron and Baroness that I serve as lady-in-
 waiting and scribe told me "No, you can't camp with us at
 the war; yes, this is when we need you the most, but you're
 not 25." In point of fact, it would never cross their minds
 to say such a thing. I also know some alleged adults that I
 would not camp on the same end of the event site with, because
 they're rowdy, lewd, drunk, and generally unpleasant to be
 within 100 yards of.

 Maturity should be the deciding factor, not a mere accident
 of chronological age.

 Serena
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: konstans@grafted.UUCP (Mark C Morgan)
Subject: Re: Intentional Violence!... Help!
Organization: GRAFTED, Central Indiana's Usenet BBS 317-881-4369
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 17:22:39 CST


> In <ig70uB2w165w@surya.UUCP> root@surya.UUCP (Root Account) writes:
> 
> >Whoa.  Since when should a crown tourney have a higher level of calibration?
> >If they are hitting too hard, too hard is too hard, period. Striveing to 
> >injure some one is not acceptable fighting, especially in crown.
> 
> 	I had no intention of advocating higher calibration for tourneys
> or any lists for that matter.  On the contrary, I was advocating lower
> calibrations for practice.  My assumption is that it is not necessary to
> go "all out" or otherwise do more than have fun and practice that new
> combination shot at fighter practice.  My apologies if that was unclear.
> 
> < Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
> <  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
> <  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
> <   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
> 

The Current level of Combat Calibration in The Middle Kingdom seems to me,
at any rate, to be much to high, making victory, esp. where something like 
the crown is at stake, a matter, can you stand there shyuging off blows, 
till you land one your opponent can't ignore.  This is a good way to really 
hurt someone

--
Mark C Morgan
The Grafted Branch BBS
317-881-4369
internet: konstans@grafted.UUCP
uucp: ..!uunet!grafted.UUCP!konstans
 = = Grafted Branch BBS (317) 889-6997 2 Gig on-line = =
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Primitive FireArms
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:44:36

 BI> Are primitive firearms, like hand cannons, or early 
 BI> matchlock (of course,
 BI> with no gunpowder or fire-ability, just for looks) be of period?
 Handgonnes are definitely period, since they are first seen somewhere 
 in the mid-14th, if memory serves me right.  I can't remember when they 
 started making matchlocks, but I know that the wheellock is within 
 period.  Hope that helps....
     Gwenllian CfM

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet