HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: SNOW IN COLORADO
Date: 6 Sep 92 21:10:47 GMT
Reply-To: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1992Sep3.165134.1@ualr.edu> grspangler@ualr.edu writes:
>In article <10501@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr) writes:
>>
>>                      ...                     BTW, we noticed a small 
>> memorial to the snow-plow drivers who died in the storm last year; it is 
>> just after the snowshed (heading south from Ouray) before the hairpin 
>> turn.  Saw it too late to stop and pay our respects to those who died to 
>> keep the mountains open in the winter, but thought some of you might want 
>> to know about it (so you can be prepared to stop) after seeing the story 
>> posted here last winter. 
>
>i missed it.  what's the story, briefly???

Briefly, there was big storm last March that caused avalanches on all 
of the slides along the CO-550 road over Red Mountain Pass.  A rotary 
plow malfunctioned just north of the "Riverside" snowshed and the 
plow operator, and another plow operator who stopped to help, were 
outside the snowshed working on the plow when the Riverside Slide ran 
and they, and the plow, were swept away.  Another plow was caught in 
a slide on another part of the road, but the driver escaped injury, 
as did the 3 passengers of a truck that was trapped on the road by 
a succession of small slides.  These 3 walked to Ouray, while 4 others 
were trapped in the snowshed.  This all happened in the midnight-3am 
hours.  I kept the article that was posted if you want more details. 

Rereading the article, it is clear that there already was a memorial 
at the Riverside snowshed.  When I glimpsed it, it appeared that there 
were 3 crosses on it and that the memorial has a plow engraved on it. 
I was the passenger, but I was mainly looking at a survey crew working 
on the road -- perhaps they will lengthen the snowshed? -- when the 
monument caught my eye.  There is a good-sized safe turnout, but it 
was too late for me to tell my wife to pull over since the turnout 
was on the opposite side of the road just before an *excellent* hairpin. 

I know nothing else, except that there are clearly some good reasons 
for driving these passes with survival supplies in the car and 
thinking twice before traveling them in a blizzard.  

--
J. A. Carr                                    |  "The New Frontier of which I  
jac@gw.scri.fsu.edu                           |  speak is not a set of promises
Florida State University  B-186               |  -- it is a set of challenges."
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute |   John F. Kennedy (15 July 60)
From: bl269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mary Beth Taormina)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Vail - Discount Lift Tickets???
Date: 11 Sep 1992 15:26:00 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bl269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mary Beth Taormina)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


As the subject says...Are there ways to obtain discount lift
tickets for Vail/Beaver Creek?  I'm going for a week in
March.  Thanks for all help!


Mary Beth

-- 

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: st910131@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: Asym Skis?
Reply-To: st910131@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:40:44 GMT

ON ASYM SKIS... I never said to go out and buy them! I dont know squat about
the things except the obvious... as many of you have restated for me.... 
you can't switch them around and wear the left one on the right side and the
right one on the left side!... I WAS WONDERING IF THERE WERE ANY SIGNIFICANT
GOOD atributes to the damn things. WELL...........I'M WAITING (preferably
to hear from someone who has used them or at least someone who knows more
about them than I have just written).

							Thanx from those who
							replied.............
							........but I still
							would like to hear the
							other side. :-)

								Todd S.
From: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Danged Responsibility Code
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:55:47 GMT
Reply-To: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1992Sep14.182130.42@clarinet.com> grant@clarinet.com (Grant Robinson) writes:
>In article <10709@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr) writes:
>>
>>        ...        When you are well within your comfort zone, do you 
>>look over your shoulder with every turn?  No way.  Not that the Resp.Code 
>>will help much either ... she was not out of control on purpose, but it 
>>is the kind of thing that fits in the "unpredictable beginner" area.   
>
>And when you're driving home, when do you stop looking around?  Two blocks
>from home?  One block from home?  I hope I'm not around when you're well
>within you comfort zone and are about to pull into your driveway. :)

Of course, it is a well known fact that most auto accidents happen close 
to home.  I remember well the time my dad saved us and the kids in the 
station wagon that ran a stop sign across a 4-lane highway (by a very 
well timed skidding turn that avoided any crash) when we were just miles 
from home after a 1000-mile trip.  My level of attention always increases 
as I near home after a long trip, but I always worry that I take my drive 
home from work too lightly.  

I saw your :) above, but I tell the tale of my uncle's experience (and 
appreciate your story about a lift-line crash) for the very reason that 
all the concern about beginners on expert runs is probably misplaced 
as far as injuries to the expert is concerned.  

--
J. A. Carr                                    |  "The New Frontier of which I  
jac@gw.scri.fsu.edu                           |  speak is not a set of promises
Florida State University  B-186               |  -- it is a set of challenges."
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute |   John F. Kennedy (15 July 60)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: jkness@IASTATE.EDU (Joel K Ness)
Subject: Ski Washington Cascades?
Reply-To: jkness@IASTATE.EDU (Joel K Ness)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:39:53 GMT

I'll be near Seattle, Wash. for a week after the first of Jan.
and would appreciate any information on skiing in the area.  
Locations, number of runs, lengths of runs, snowboarders allowed,
all the stuff.
  
Maybe one you know of an FTP site that provides that info??

I do have relatives in the area (who don't ski) who could pick up any
discount tickets if any of the resorts provide any.


Please e-mail me....
--
******************************************************************************
Joel K. Ness             internet:jkness@iastate.edu
Aerospace Engineering and Engineering Mechanics Dept.
2064 Black Engineering
Iowa State University                   "But captain, I can't change the 
Ames, Iowa  50010                        laws of physics"--Montgomery Scott
******************************************************************************
From: bdl@cruiser.uucp (Bob Lombard)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: pinhead.wannabe.postulant
Keywords: Tired of nailing heel to ski
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 09:08:15 PDT
Distribution: na
Organization: what? me organized? no way!

Hi-

  As that time of year approaches (not fast enough, IMHO) I've decided
that I can't stand it anymore- *This* is the year I begin to learn
Free heel downhill skiing.  KNOWING that a substantial amount of the
readers/posters of this group are possessed of significant skills in this
art,  I am fishing for guidance in this vast bowl of knowledge.

  Some background:   I'm a strong & competent alpine skier, tho not an
expert or extreme skier.  I spend 25-30 days a year skiing, a good portion
of that teaching at the California Handicapped Ski School.  I have a pair
of Fischer Town& Country skis, (track skis).  With these I've
done *SOME* in-track, and even less out of track Cross Country, entirely
day trips. (I was fortunate enough to get snowed in in Yosemite valley
4 years ago. YAHOO !) I can manage a shallow wedge turn on these,
nothing real tight (no metal edge :( )

  So.... what are your reccomendations ?  any & all hints on where to start,
equipment, books, lessons, type of granola, Good places to learn in So-Cal,
etc, are greatly appreciated.

Thanks & Supplications in advance..







*****************************************************************
* Bob Lombard ||  bdl@cruiser.uucp  || 418 Village Center Drive *
*             ||                    || Encinitas, Ca. 92024     *
*  |~~|_                                                        *
*  |    :           "If it ain't green and it ain't old,        *
*  '0-0-''..../\..   .. it ain't my truck                       *
*****************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: dustin@miki.pictel.com (Dustin Clampitt)
Subject: Re: Beginner/Black Diamond runs
Organization: PictureTel Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:55:45 GMT

In article <yury.02wy@bknight.jpr.com> yury@bknight.jpr.com (Yury German) writes:
>In article <1202@tekgen.bv.tek.com> bryan@tekgen.bv.tek.com (Bryan Olson) writes:
>>Part of the fun of skiing is risk taking. I don't think I have ever been
>>endangered by a beginner while on a black diamond run. The type of beginner
>>who is likely to try one is also likely to have some common sense. I.e., 
>>trying it on a day when conditions are good, not much powder, not big bumps
>>and pick a run that they can see from a lift on the way up to scout it.
>
>
>	Are you sure about this one????
>
>It just happens that on a black diamond in Vermont (@ Mt. Snow) a black
>dimond with sever Icing condition was filled with beggineers. I had a few
>of them cut in front of me by doing the side to side wiggle. I purposly
>would take the powder at one of the sides... and one of the begginers
>would manage to go write across my path write in front of me! One of them
>even decided to knock me down. The excuse was... SORRY I AM NOT SUCH A
>GOOD SKIIER!!!
>
>Well if you can not ski it (parallel not wedge) then do not go on it!
>
>-- 

Huh!  I wonder if it was the same skier who cost me my Right ACL on Bear Mtn.
at Killington two years ago on Thanksgiving Day. . . .



-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dustin Clampitt                                                       |
| PictureTel Corporation                                                |
| 1984 Corporation Way, Peabody, MA 01960  -  508-977-8555              |
| Internet:dustin@pictel.com                                            |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Play Bluegrass Lite * 1/3 Fewer Notes! * Less Picking! * Sounds Great!
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: daved@convex.com (David Dorfman)
Subject: Re: Beginner/Black Diamond runs
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:18:00 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Sep11.095149.7708@osf.org> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:

>I think you're being a bit 'holier than thou' here.  It's difficult to tell who
>was above whom here.  Certainly it is also the responsibility of any skier not
>to overreach his ablilities.  Seems like our "Yury" was cut up here, if someone
>deliberately (or even accidentally) aims at you then it can be a bit difficult
>to avoid them.

You really can't understand the situation until you have skied in the eastern USA.
You cannot begin to imagine the crowded on-slope conditions created by the huge lift
capacity of ski areas like Killington and Mt Snow in Vermont. The fact is that 
these areas require more stringent control of skiers because they are packed into a small 
area. I have been frequently knocked down by skiers out of control on trails above 
their skill level. The narrow trails and crowded conditions don't allow an expert 
skier a wide range of options for escape, either you stop, ski into the woods, ski
over the body of the novice who just cut you off. As a result you can't really ski at the
level you would like and also ski responsibly. Even if you are standing still 
people will ski into you.  In the western US there is more then enough space and
trail to avoid the bozo's in over their heads, but in Vermont we should make an effort
to keep people on trails they can handle at some level of competance.

>They showed a film of American resorts over here.  All these piste monitors (or
>is that Pissed Monitors ?) shouting "hey buddy, slow down, you're exceeding the
>5mph speed limit for this slope, and have a fun run!".  Jeez makes me want to
>dust down my Randonnee skis and get away from the crowds.  Alternative, ski real
>Alpine black diamonds, where men are men and beginners get lifted off by
>helicopter !


I agree, but this is not the situation, THE WESTERN US HAS THE FINEST SKIING IN THE 
WORLD, wide open conditions and  an attitude not unlike what you describe, but the
eastern US is just to crowded to allow people to learn at others expense. Besides
skiing in the east is just practice for trips to the West.

Dave
From: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Danged Responsibility Code
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:52:19 GMT
Reply-To: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <25810@castle.ed.ac.uk> miked@uk.ac.ed writes:
>In <14599@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>
>>I think that was his point.  I don't know how many time I've skied over
>>a knoll and come across someone just beyond it.  An advance skier would
>>be able to avoid that person. Someone with lesser abilities, but one with
>>probably enough skills to ski repsponsibly on that slope might not.  
>
>I just don't agree that this is skiing responsibly.   ...

Agreed.  Remember, a speed skier died at the Olympics because there was 
a grooming machine on the other side of the knoll.  

>As far as limiting beginners and advanced skiers to certain areas goes. 
>All I can say is I hope this kind of garbage does not become common here
>in Europe.  Beginners have to be able to get better.  The way they do
>this is by going up slopes that are so hard they fall occasionally and
>go out of control for short periods.  Everyone does this.  The main
>thing that matters is that you never go out of control near anyone. 

A very good point.  But the original thread was not about advanced 
intermediates trying out an expert slope and getting bitten.  It was 
about 2nd trip beginners taking a black diamond in a full snow plow 
and losing control.  I have seen it.  In fact, I had all I could do 
to keep my nephew from "pointing them down" a blue on his first day 
ever on skis.  That 12-13 year personality!  And if his next day 
skiing was in the Rockies, where a blue run is a real run, he could 
get in a *lot* of trouble. 

>Achieve this by slowing down when near people.  It's always possible
>(unless America is much more crowded than the Alps which I refuse to
>believe) to find somewhere to ski without being surrounded by other
>people.   ...

You should ski North Carolina some time.  I have heard enough stories about 
true simultaneous 3-body collisions there to keep me away.  Also, the slope 
leading off the hill at Snowmass (Aspen) looked like a shopping mall at 
Christmas on a plain old mid-day non-vacation winter day.  Traffic cops every 
100 meters.  I had hiked up to the circe, skied lots of uncrowded runs, and 
cruised the length of the mountain ...  and when I got to the bottom it was 
actually *scary* it was so crowded.  Nothing worse than a mix of never-evers 
and experts at a skier density of 1 every 12 feet or so.  

--
J. A. Carr                                    |  "The New Frontier of which I  
jac@gw.scri.fsu.edu                           |  speak is not a set of promises
Florida State University  B-186               |  -- it is a set of challenges."
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute |   John F. Kennedy (15 July 60)
From: Alan.Crowder@prg.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: American Resorts
Date: 7 Sep 92 15:10:46 GMT
X-Mailer: mail-news 2.0.3


Hi fellow skier's

Well what with the dollar being a favourable currency at the moment,
nearly 2 for 1 pound. Me and my friend are thinking about going to 
Vail or Aspen or somewhere like that. We are OK skier's (not brill
but not bad) and wonder what it actually costs for lift passes and
suchlike. We thought about Feb93 for a couple of weeks. Any good???

I keep reading about discount coupons etc, where do i get them from
or is it best just to pay when i get there. What about hotels and food
what i am asking is i supose impossible to answer but you know us very
tight english people.

Any help would be great.

Thanks in advance to you all.

Alan
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eric@quantum.on.ca (Eric Johnson)
Subject: You have to fall to learn?
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 15:23:13 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software Systems

>>In <14599@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
(stuff deleted)
>When I was nine years old my father bought my brother and I a motorcycle.
>It was set up as a dirt bike and we went riding almost every weekend in
>the mud.  He said, "If you don't fall, you aren't learning".  This is also
           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>true for skiing.  You have to challenge yourself, and fall as a result.  The
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>key, however, is to recognize your limits and push them such that you are
>not endangering yourself or others.  Nobody benefits when you ski a run
>the is *way* beyond your ability to ski.  

I keep hearing this from all sorts of people. Its one of those truisms which 
I feel is quite false. You may have to make mistakes to learn. Those mistakes
do not have to result in falls to learn. I have been downhill skiing for only 
two years, rarely fall (i.e. maybe three times a year or so I will fall, and I
have lost equipment only once when I made a mistake in deep powder resulting
in one of my skis coming off), and have _definitely_ improved. I am comfortable
skiing just about any pitch and am getting the hang of the bumps pretty well
now also. On bump runs I have certainly made lots of mistakes and lost control
for brief (i.e. <1 second) moments. I have found that with practice and taking
sensible risks appropriate to my skills that I have the recovery skills
necessary to stay in control when I make mistakes on progressively more
challenging terrain. I have several friends who started skiing at the same 
time I did and took the recommended 'if you don't fall you aren't pushing
yourself hard enough' approach. All of these friends are far, far, behind me
now in skiing ability. I think this idea that you have to fall is just plain
wrong. If you are falling frequently or are presenting a hazard to other
skiers, put your ego away and find a slope more appropriate to your abilities.

Like you say, nobody benfits when you ski a run that is *way* beyond your ability
to ski. I would define 'beyond your ability' as a slope on which you make mistakes
such that you are not in 100% control for any fraction of a second. i.e. 'oops,
I just about lost it'. And I would define 'way beyond your ability' as a slope
on which you _do_ lose it, i.e. are out of control for more than a fraction of a
second, or fall. If you are falling each run or even every 5 runs, you still have
things to learn from practicing on easier runs.

-- 
Eric Johnson (eric@quantum.qnx.com or try eric@quantum.on.ca)
Technical Development, Quantum Software Systems Ltd (QNX OS)
From: ssh@snow.boulder.ibm.com (Steve Hultquist (347-3994))
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Bigfoot
Date: 15 Sep 92 11:04:58 GMT
Reply-To: <ssh@vnet.ibm.com>
Organization: ISSC Boulder

Nah!  The "BIGFOOT" is a ski from Kneissl that's about 50 cm long (I think).  A
cross between the powder pig skis and the snow runners.
--
Steve Hultquist                          Open systems and networking specialist
Where the earth rises to meet the sky:                             ISSC Boulder
From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Bigfoot
Date: 15 Sep 1992 22:05:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


   Scott, a perfect example of remarking on something you know very little
about. A hundred years ago you would have been saying the same thing about
the mountain gorilla. Never even said I was a "bigfoot hunter". I've simply
had several conversations with people who could not have been making the
story up (in my view). People with nothing to gain and everything to lose. I'm
not even saying such a possible unknown animal exists, just that it deserves
to be looked into. Try to keep an open mind and you might learn new things.
-- 
"A large creature about 7 1/2 to 8 foot tall. It was greyish black in color,
and as it went away from me I seen the backside of it walking as a man would
walk on it's hind legs."- Former Sheriff Oliver Potter, Vancouver, Washington
The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga!
From: Fabrizio Sebastiani <fabrizio@iei.pi.cnr.it>
Subject: mail order shops
Organization: Italian National Council of Research
X-Xxdate: Wed, 9 Sep 92 12:58:09 GMT
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6D3A5619E010363@mac-sebastiani.iei.pi.cnr.it>
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 10:54:01 GMT
X-Posted-From: mac-sebastiani.iei.pi.cnr.it
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Can anyone suggest addresses and phone numbers of mail order shops for
ski equipment? I'd like to check whether I could save on the 400$ that I
would spend for buying a Rossignol 7G in regular Italian shops.  

Thanks     Fabrizio

----------------------------------
Fabrizio Sebastiani                             Phone : +39.(0)50.593407
Istituto di Elaborazione dell'Informazione        Fax : +39.(0)50.554342
Consiglio Nazionale delle Ricerche               Telex : 590305 IEICNR I
Via S. Maria, 46 - 56126 Pisa (ITALY)    E-mail : fabrizio@iei.pi.cnr.it
----------------------------------