HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Glut of programmers? Common courtesy?
From: bamon@ocvaxc.cc.oberlin.edu
Date: 31 Dec 92 14:40:39 EDT
Organization: Oberlin College

Is it my imagination, or are there quite a few experienced and
highly educated people who are having trouble finding jobs? 
I look daily at misc.jobs.resumes, misc.jobs.offered, 
misc.jobs.offered.entry and biz.jobs.offered, and I see LOTS 
of people with LOTS of experience and LOTS of education, 
looking for work.

I'm keeping my eyes open for a position for a friend who has 
8 years of experience, but no degree, and I'm beginning to think 
he hasn't got a chance with so many people looking for work.

What's going on in the computer programming/operations/analysis
field? Do we suddenly have twice as many programmers as available
positions?

And a second question: 

Why is it that so many companies/agencies don't bother to notify 
an applicant/interviewee when a position has been filled. It's 
really nerve-wracking to hear nothing from a company after sending 
a resume, or worse yet, after an interview.

When I was in a hiring position, I always sent a letter to every
individual, stating that I had received the resume and that they
either were still being considered for a position or not, AND by
what date a decision would be made. Then, when the decision was
made, I notified all the candidates that the position had been
filled, but that their resumes would be kept on file for future
openings. And yes, I really did keep the resumes for future use.

It was actually easier for me to send out a bunch of quick letters
to the applicants than it was to deal with the many phone calls
that all began with "I just wanted to make sure that you received
my resume...." or "I was calling to see if the position has been
filled yet...."

What has happened to common courtesy? Am I seriously out of
touch with the reality of today's job market?

______________________________________________________________________
Jennifer R. Amon     FREENET: aa1190@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu
Oberlin College      FREENET: cc312@cleveland.freenet.edu
Oberlin, OH 44074   *INTERNET: bamon@ocvaxc.cc.oberlin.edu
PH: (216) 775-6987   BITNET: bamon%ocvaxc.cc.oberlin.edu@ocvaxc.bitnet
FAX: (216) 775-8573  *use the internet address if possible        

****************  VAX/VMS, Oracle, C, Spitbol, KBMS ******************
______________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ortega@cactus.org (Paul Ortega)
Subject: Re: Northerners moving south - questions
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 00:53:39 GMT

In article <Jan.1.10.09.23.1993.17564@cadenza.rutgers.edu> masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola) writes:
>I'm investigating a couple of job leads in the South - too many places
>to mention meaningfully - and would like to hear from any Northerners
>who've made such a move
>
>Specifically, have you had trouble with the, ah, insularity of the
>natives? Was it possible to adjust after a period of time, or is one
>always pegged as a damyankee? It seems like a serious quality-of-life
>issue. 
>

Speaking as someone born and raised in the South, I think it's safe
to say that if you act like a "damyankee", you will be pegged
a "damyankee".  :)

For example, saying things like the following will not endear 
you to others:

"We know how to eat Chinese food in New York.  We never use a
fork, we always use chopsticks."


-- 
Paul Ortega                 |  "While looking for the men's room,
2015 Cedar Bend Dr., #1105  |   VP Dan Quayle stepped into the Quantum
Austin, TX 78758            |   Leap Accelerator and vanished....."
ortega@cactus.org            ---------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ssimmons@convex.com (Steve Simmons)
Subject: >>>>> Question about placement of employment information on a resume
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 13:14:51 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.


> In one of the interviews which I've had recently,
> the interviewer looked at my resume, and he barely 
> noticed that I've had 3 years full-time work experience. 
> The problem is that my work experience is listed in
> chronological order, and my full-time work experience
> is preceeded by a lot of part-time academic experience.
> I think the interviewer probably glanced at my academic
> experience and thought, 'here's a guy straight out of 
> school with no real experience', and stopped reading 
> my resume.  
>
> I wanted to get opinions on whether I should divide 
> my experience into separate sections--academic and
> industrial--and then list my industrial experience
> first.  That way, I think I'd have a better chance
> of catching the reader's attention, perhaps at the
> loss of some clarity in the resume. 

Your job history should be in chronological order; however, it 
should be reverse order with your last job first.  Most people 
are interested in what you've been doing for the last few years. 
Also, describe in detail your last assignments and summarize your 
later assignments.  If you have room on your resume, you can include
part-time work; however, don't include part-time work if it forces 
you onto a second page.  The exception is if the work is relevant. 
That is your call and it is your opportunity to sell yourself. 

Whether to place your job history before education is an open question. 
The rule of thumb is to always place your differentiating and most 
important qualities first.  When I was looking for my first job, I placed
my summer jobs/internships first because many interviewers looked down their
noses at college hires without any experience.  Since I've been out of 
school for the past 8 years, I sometimes like to place my Education first
since I have a Master's degree and my Education only takes 5-10 lines.  
Job histories can take up 30-50 lines.   This allows both my Education 
and Job History to start on the first page, the most crucial page. 

I like to end my resume with publications and patents because the last 
few lines of a resume often get read too.   

Once you have their attention, the stuff in the middle gets read and you
may get called for interview. 

Thank you. 

					Steve Simmons


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: markmc@halcyon.com (Mark McWiggins)
Subject: Re: Inappropriate responses to job posting
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:00:39 GMT

I've *never* posted or otherwise advertised any position without getting
inappropriate responses. That's why headhunters are in business: to deal
with this when the principals don't want to.
-- 
Mark McWiggins        Hermes & Associates		+1 206 632 1905 (voice)
markmc@halcyon.com    Box 31356, Seattle WA 98103-1356  +1 206 632 1738 (fax)
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:8355 misc.jobs.offered:15141 misc.jobs.contract:4618
From: sgupta@informix.com (Shailesh Gupta)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,misc.jobs.offered,misc.jobs.contract
Subject: Contract position for Software Engineer
Date: 23 Dec 92 01:22:50 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: InfoSoft, Inc.
Originator: sgupta@gomer

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	InfoSoft has a contract position available for software engineer
	with atleast 2 years of programming experience on HP 3000 MPE ix
	environment.

	Please call or fax:

	Mr. Fred Hubbard
	InfoSoft Inc.
	20573 Stevens Creek Blvd. Suite # 200
	Cupertino, CA-95014

	Tel: (408)-255-4077
	Fax: (408)-255-4078

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

	***********************************************************
	   Please do NOT send e-mail reply to this account.
	   Send e-mails to infosoft@netcom.COM
        ***********************************************************
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu (Walter Lee)
Subject: Re: Managerial Ambitions (was Re: transform a resume)
Reply-To: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, MI
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:17:03 GMT

In article <C058ML.I35@world.std.com>, mgw@world.std.com (maryanne g wolf) writes:

>Curious that you say choosing the technical track paints one into a corner.
>I had heard that a lot of mid-level managers were out of work as companies
>flattened their hierarchies to become leaner, and that the technical people
>continued to be in demand.  This doesn't solve your problem, but, is there
>really a consensus about which track leads where?

Ain't no consensus about anything.  Some people tell me they'd trade their
professional experience for more educational credentials if they could. (!?)

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Walter Lee                                          w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu

The people to fear are not those who disagree with you, but those who
disagree with you and are too cowardly to let you know.
                                -- Napoleon Bonaparte
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: What is essence of SUCCESS
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:13:18 GMT
Organization: California-Nevada Methodist Homes

In article <EfEDuOC00WBNM2ZpMM@andrew.cmu.edu> zh00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Zhengguo Hu) writes:
>  I was recently interviewed by a consulting company. The interviewer
>ask me the question:
>  "How would you describe the essence of success?"
>  This question surprised me. What are your answers?
>Ed

At first thought, it would be easy to write some long diatribe
that was full of double-talk that made it sound incredibly
deep and philosophical.  However, upon further thought, I 
think that the best response is a simple one. When the 
question is asked, say "The essence of success is avoiding
the situation where one is in a position of being asked 
this question".  This is thoughtful, and it requires the
questioner to think about it, thereby making you appear 
all the wiser.
--Keith

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ezellj@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Jean Ezell)
Subject: Re: transform a resume
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:55:47 GMT

ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler) writes:

>teaching. I could become less alienated if some university were prepared
>to sit down with me and negotiate substantive issues of working conditions.

Allan, you keep writing about how no company is willing to provide you
with the working conditions you need.  But I don't recall you ever
explaining what those conditions would be.  Would you care to elaborate?

I've been reading your posts with some interest, because you very much
remind me of my best friend from my undergraduate days.  He's employed
now at a regular job, complete with security clearance, because he
finally decided that the conditions of extreme poverty were worse than
being employed.  He didn't enjoy it too much at first, but I think that
he is much happier now than he ever was unemployed.

-- 
*  Jean Ezell                 *  University of Illinois   *
*                             *  Coordinated Science Lab  *
*  ezell@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu   *  1101 W. Springfield      *
*  (217) 244-5536             *  Urbana, IL  61801        *
From: paradis@sousa.tay.dec.com (Jim Paradis)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Interesting statistic about resumes...
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:04:57 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Littleton, MA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

rON. (blowfish@carina.unm.edu) wrote:
: [Resumes are reviewed for an average of 20 seconds] 
: 
: Now do you believe that a clean clear resume is more important than one that
: details your life history? :)

That's why I reformatted my resume as a series of bullet-lists.  It blew
it up to two pages (although I made sure all the juicy stuff stayed on
page 1), but it seemed to have gotten a *very* positive reaction during
my last job search 8-)

[Matt, don't worry... I'm not in the job market now 8-)]

-- 
Jim Paradis (paradis@sousa.tay.dec.com) 
I try to take one day at a time, but lately several days have attacked at once!
From: "greg leman" <greg.leman@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: maptronix jobs
Date: 2 Jan 93 00:18:55 EST
Reply-To: "greg leman" <greg.leman@channel1.com>
Distribution: misc
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

******************************************************************
         Maptronix is looking for a few good developers.
******************************************************************

Maptronix, Inc., a leading vendor of real time mapping solutions,
is seeking experienced and ambitious software developers with
experience in:

     SYBASE - design and development of applications, schemas,
     administration, and performance tuning.  Applications
     development and system design experience is critical.

     JAM - significant experience developing JAM applications
     utilizing JAM/DBI and JAM/PI in a Unix environment.

     GRAPHICS - Low level X Window 2 and 3-D graphics, CAD
     systems, CAD formats, hard copy rendering, Motif/Open Look.

     CAD/GIS - Experience developing CAD/GIS/mapping software.

     PUBLIC SAFETY - Experience in public safety dispatching,
     communications, or crime analysis.

     UTILITIES - Experience in power outage management, facilities
     management, or AM/FM applications in the public utility sector.

If you have experience in at least two of the above categories,
as well as:

     * Bachelor's Degree (CS is helpful, but not required).
     * US Citizen
     * Excellent verbal and written communications skills.
     * Four years of professional software development experience
     using C or C++.
     * Significant experience with Unix workstations.
     * Proven track record of developing complex systems and
     working on a small team or as a solo developer.
     * Willingness to move to the Research Triangle Park area of
     North Carolina.

We'd like to hear from you.

Maptronix is located in the heart of North Carolina, where a low
cost of living and beautiful scenery combined with close access
to Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill create a wonderful lifestyle.
The Research Triangle Park is a high technology center with a
fast growing local economy.  Our customers are large metropolitan
local governments and Fortune 500 members.

Maptronix provides a comfortable and creative development environment
with excellent compensation and benefits.  Since certain positions
may require extensive development/customization at customer sites,
please indicate your willingness to travel.  Please include your
salary history and date of availability.

Please forward your resume to:

Relay:    GREG LEMAN
Internet: greg.leman@channel1.com
Fax:      919-833-2080
US Mail:  Maptronix Inc.
          P. O. Box 6546
          Raleigh, NC 27628-6548

Principals only, no phone calls please.
        


---
  KingQWK 0.06  FMAP: The fastest map around.                                              
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler)
Subject: transform a resume
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.
Distribution: misc
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:10:21 GMT


As some readers might have guessed from my earlier postings ("$6000 for
one month each year" and "working conditions"), I do not know how to
write a resume or to present myself to employers. In part, that is because
things that are expected to be self evident to people are not self evident to
me. And I suspect that as soon as employers stop paying for them to be self
evident, these things won't be self evident to anyone.

Meanwhile, I have about a dozen TeX files contining information I have
typeset about myself and which, if printed out, would be an
order of magnitude too long and inappropriate in content from the
standpoint of most employers.

I will gladly send copies of these files to anyone who thinks they can
translate the contents into something that the capitalist imperialist
devils and their craven lackeys can understand.

Allan Adler
ara@altdorf.ai.mit.edu
From: cote@cs.ucsd.edu (Brad Cote)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Advice from a hiring manager on resume
Date: 29 Dec 92 18:37:51 GMT

carole@rembrandt.Sun.COM (Carole Parker) writes:

>U.S. employment law doesn't allow discrimination due to race, etc.  A picture
>will indicate race, and some employers will cut the picture out just to avoid
>any possible law suits.  Unless you're trying to be a model or actor, don't
>include your picture.

Interestingly, candidates for resident positions at the Shiley Eye
Center are required to provide a photo with their application. This
was done to ensure that people who checked a minority box on the
application really are a minority. While there is no "quota" at the
center, that does not stop applicants from thinking that there will be
special treatment of minority candidates. 

There are many factors considered when selecting a new employee
including their personality, past experience, education, and impact on
the existing group. It's just kind of sad that the criteria isn't soley
the best person for the job. A look at the selection process for
Clinton's cabinet is a harbinger of things to come. When "diversity"
becomes a criteria, it not only eliminates otherwise highly qualified
candidates, but also casts a quite possibly undeserved affirmative
action shadow on successful candidates.

                                    Brad Cote'
                                    University of California, San Diego
                                    STARE Project
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Subject: Re: Northerners moving south - questions
Reply-To: dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 23:09:58 GMT

In article <1i1p9nINNbdv@CS.UTK.EDU> 
primeaux@carlsberg.cs.utk.edu (David Primeaux) writes:
>masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola) writes:

>> Was it possible to adjust after a period of time, or is one
>> always pegged as a damyankee? 

> If one always acts like a damn yankee, one will probably always be treated
> like one.  Specifically, I have known people who have moved into the south
> and have done nothing but complain at every opportunity about how it isn't 
> the north.  A little appreciation of what *was* around them would have gone
> far to improve their acceptance.

Yes, I have to agree with this.  

This thread reminds me of a joke that one of my co-workers told 
me about the difference between a "yankee" and a "damn yankee".
A "yankee" is a northerner who comes to the south to visit, and a 
"damn yankee" is one who comes to the south and stays.  If you
can laugh at that joke like I did, then you'll have no problems 
living in a southern town.  

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: kirk@tallis.enet.dec.com (Matthew B. Kirk)
Subject: Re: Inappropriate responses to job posting
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:10:45 GMT


In article <1992Dec19.060149.28500@netcom.com>, jon@netcom.com (John L Davis) writes...

>You sound like the celebrated Swede, "I vant to be left alone!"
>These people are vibrant, excited people who you should encourage even at 
>the cost of a few moments of your "valuable time"!

Why?  At what point do you draw the line?  We got over 200 responses to 
our first net ad and only 15% met the residency requirement AND paid attention
to the application directions (a lot didn't state whether they were a U.S. 
citizen or what their visa status was).  

In the ad, we stated explicitly that U.S. citizenship, permanent residence,  
or asylee status were absolutely required.  Each of those 200 responses got 
time for someone to review the response and type up a reply even though the
people knew they were ineligible from the start.  A couple even called on the
phone to ask why we wouldn't consider sponsoring them.

Our last net ad had a higher quality response - we listed acceptable
visa numbers and didn't just state what types of visas were ok.  We still 
got some applicants who weren't eligible.

=============================================================================
Matthew Kirk				  	     kirk@tallis.enet.dec.com

All opinions expressed here are mine and do not reflect those of Digital
Equipment Corporation.
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: kannan@ardor.enet.dec.com (Nari Kannan)
Subject: Re: Inappropriate responses to job posting
Reply-To: kannan@ardor.enet.dec.com (Nari Kannan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:02:05 GMT

In addition, I think users of the newsgroups should realize that
using a free common newsgroup like this has its own
disadvantages. If you want a technical writer and if you 
advertise in a magazine or journal targeted specifically for
technical writers, you will not have this problem. Using a 
very common newsgroup to advertise for all kinds of
jobs and that too for free, you will have to be ready to
put up with more inappropriate responses. It's just a fact of
life.  Many people do not even access this "discussion"
newsgroup, misc.jobs.misc. I bet they look only at
the actual job postings newsgroup.  Writing here
exhorting people to apply only if they fit every requirement is
a waste of time, IMHO.

You cannot use a free open common forum and still expect to
get extremely specific applications.  If you want to achieve
that level of specificity, then advertise in places targeted
towards that particular audience. You can't have the cake
and eat it too.

Nari

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: djohnson@cs.ulowell.edu (Daniel T. Johnson)
Subject: Re: Companies ack of receipt of resume...
Originator: djohnson@bigmax.ulowell.edu
Organization: U. Mass. at Lowell
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:22:15 GMT


In article <246@cnmhnet.UUCP>, keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard) writes:
|> goes something like "...although your qualifications were excellent,
|> we have found someone else who more closely fit our needs...  However,
|> we will keep your resume on file and if a position develops that fits
|> your qualifications, we will contact you..."  I HATE THESE LETTERS!
|> I would almost rather NOT hear anything than to get one of these letters!
|> --Keith
|> 
Hey I got that exact line once in one of my rejection letters .  I think they are funny.  It kind of makes you wonder what they were thinking when they originally wrote the letters.

Daniel T. Johnson

-------------------------------------------------
Problems make life interesting and fun
on the other hand no maybe just interesting
-------------------------------------------------
 
-- 
Daniel T. Johnson

-------------------------------------------------
Problems make life interesting and fun
From: Eric.Kietzke@f99.n121.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Kietzke)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: re: Essence of SUCCESS
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:23:00 GMT


 On 12-29-92 Zhengguo Hu wrote to All... 
 
 ZH>   I was recently interviewed by a consulting company. The interviewer 
 ZH> ask me the question: 
 ZH>   "How would you describe the essence of success?" 
 ZH> 
 ZH>   This question surprised me. What are your answers? 
 
        Success is the attainment of one's goals, no matter what 
those goals may be (Material, intellectual, or spiritual).  To 
distill it to a single constituent is meaningless; but the most 
important component, without question, is desire. 
 
        I hope this helps you in life as well. 
 
        Regards, 
                        Eric 
 
 
 
... OFFLINE 1.42 * I DECLARE...him, whose insight makes all others dim! 

 * Origin: NineJackNine (1:121/99)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc