HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Pittsburg, Pa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:41:35 GMT
Organization: (getting there)


brown@NCoast.ORG (Stan Brown) writes:
 >There is no cabal--yeah, sure.  Then who sent me my Official Cabal
 >Application?

1.  I dunno.  But I know who didn't send it.

2.  It's probably a forgery.  Look at it *very* closely.

3.  *There* *is* *no* *Official* *Cabal* *Application*

Pods, see to him.


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
From: carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Pittsburgh, Pa
Date: 11 Dec 1992 18:14:31 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ab24.larc.nasa.gov

In article <1992Dec10.185116.7901@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
|> In article <1g7v1tINN1si@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
|> >You wrote something stoopid about the Democratic Party and something even
|> >more stoopid about Pittsburgh, Melinda.
|> 
|> Since when is having a personal opinion about where you used to live
|> "stoopid"?  It's completely subjective, and I think it's crazy to
|> interpret Melinda's comments as anything other than that, and I'm
|> sure she'd agree.  (I was scandalized when she made that comment
|> about Cody's, and I think Black Oak is a bit too self-conscious
|> for my taste, but I'm comfortable agreeing to disagree.)  

Yeah, and I was scandalized when she called Virginia a cultural backwater
after having only lived in Loudon and Fairfax counties!  After all, it's
in Southeastern VA where the culture is, not up there in NoVa.  *We* 
have the VA Symphony, The VA Opera, The VA Ballet, The VA Stage Co.,
The VA Pops Orchestra, The VA Choral Society, etc.   On the other hand,
even though I grew up within easy driving distance of Montreal and practically
next door to a good school of music (Crane), I still consider the Ithaca
area a culturally superior part of the state (NY).  So I won't go too
hard on Melinda.  
-- 



*************************************************      
*Dr. Ann B. Carlson (a.b.carlson@larc.nasa.gov) *       O .
*MS 366                                         *         o  _///_ //
*NASA Langley Research Center                   *          <`)=  _<<
*Hampton, VA 23681-0001                         *             \\\  \\
*************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Followup-To: alt.politics.homosexuality
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:38:56 GMT

I've directed followups to alt.politics.homosexuality.

In article <1gdgenINNp1j@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

>glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>> So Heather, in first grade, deserves to be subjected
>> to teasing and pain by other children because of the
>> fact of her parents being of the same gender?  
>
>Greg, did you read what I wrote?  I've been saying that what 
>should be taught is that *all* people should be respected for
>who they are, *period*.  From this you derive that I think kids
>of gay parent-households should be teased?  

From a practical perspective, failing to teach children about the
existence of gay households *will* have the effect that kids in grade
school who have gay parents will be teased and ostracized.  That's
Greg's point and mine.  I think the question is which you object to
more strenuously: that children will be taught something that is
objected to by some of their parents, or that they will be humiliated
on the basis of their having queer parents?

>There's something that doesn't fit here, either.  From "Heather 
>has 2 mommies" kids aren't supposed to pick up on any sexual/gay
>overtones, just that heather has 2 mommies that love each other
>and her?

That's not it.  No sexual overtones, but I think that the "gay"
overtones are meant to be clear, at least insofar as it's clear that
Heather's mommies love each other romantically.  The book that's been
proposed is not "Heather's Mommies Perform Cunnilingus on Each Other."
:-) The book simply addresses the fact that people of the same gender
can love each other, ignoring the questions of what those people
actually *do* with each other in bed.

>[Schools] should teach that *all* people are vaulable and 
>should be respected, even if they are different from you.  Covers 
>all the bases, without setting anyone off, or needing to specifically
>categorize people into little frames.  

While that's an admirable objective, I don't think it's realistic.
How are schools to teach that "all" people are valuable and should be
respected?  Just say "all people are valuable?"  That doesn't leave a
terribly strong impression on the students.

Typically, lessons of diversity are taught by comparison: white people
are no more valuable than black people, men no more so than women, and
so on.  Simply by being told, "all people are valuable," children
might easily nod and say "okay" without realizing that "all" really
means *everybody* -- gay people and straight people too!

I don't see why the curriculum shouldn't attempt to address those
specific cases in which injustice is already widespread, such as
prejudice on the basis of race, gender, or sexual orientation, and
then expand in coming years as the need arises.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52920 soc.bi:16754
From: black@lester.sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: NOTICE - Details of the March on Washington
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:06:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.153134.11417@rtsg.mot.com>, yorton@turtle11.rtsg.mot.com (James J. Yorton) writes:

|> The MOW goes further than demanding rights for gays, lesbians,
|> and bisexuals.  It includes transgender people.  This is where
|> I have a problem with it.  First of all, let me say that I
|> don't condone discrimination against *anyone*, including
|> transgender people.  Having said that, I have a problem with
|> having a "transgender" clause included with sexual orientation.
|> The question isn't whether transgender people shouldn't be
|> discriminated against.  It's what does transgender have to do
|> with a person's sexual orientation?  Nothing.  You can be
|> gay or straight and be a transvestite or transsexual.

So we should throw them to the wolves, right?

Transgendered people face discrimination for much the same reason that
gay, lesbian, and bisexual people do: they are not "proper" men or
"proper" women, and our society can't cope with that.

If we only asked for what we thought we could get, and not for what we
want but didn't think we could get, we'd never get anything.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Cramer spoiling the party
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:01:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.124242.3084@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>I thought it was rather satisfying (I put in both Cramer and
>optilink) to watch the articles get junked and to know I
>wouldn't be seeing even one screen of that dreck.

Me too.  I spend about 10 hours a day in front of a
terminal, but the only time I really have a sense of
software working to make my life a much better place is
watching articles get junked by my newsreader.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cjones@physci.ucla.edu (Chad Jones)
Subject: Re: New DPN
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1
Organization: UCLA Physiological Science
Date: 15 Dec 92 07:19:29 PST

In article <1992Dec14.061354.17633@netcom.com> Jack Hamilton,
jfh@netcom.com writes:
>- The recipe for Biffy Mae's Sexually Repressed Pecan Pie.

Oh, no.  I tried out Biffy Mae's Key Lime Pie recipe in a previous issue
and almost puked, it was so rich.

Do they still print GAWK?  I believe DPN was an offshoot if that 'zine,
but I've never seen it.  I'm seronegative and don't get all the jokes in
DPN, so I'd like to see GAWK.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chad Jones                 | Do I need someone here to scold me or do I
Network Manager            | need someone who'll grab and pull me out of
UCLA Physiological Science | this four poster dull torpor pulling
cjones@physci.ucla.        | downward?                 -- 10,000 Maniacs
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lylace@Ingres.COM (Lylace Blake)
Subject: Renters wanted for house in Washington, D.C.
Keywords: house rent Washington,D.C.
             Looking for a place in Washington, DC?
Reply-To: lylace@Ingres.COM (Lylace Blake)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Distribution: na
Date: 17 Dec 92 01:45:41 GMT

           Have we got a great rental house for you:

   *  2 story town house on Capitol Hill, SE....14 blocks from the
      Capitol building, 1 block from the METRO, and walking distance
      to eastern market shops

   *  2 bedrooms (1 with ceiling fan)

   *  Full bath (with skylight) upstairs, 1/2 bath downstairs

   *  Hardwood floors

   *  Living room fireplace

   *  Large, sunny kitchen

   *  Dishwasher, frsot free refrigerator, and gas stove

   *  Backyard deck

   *  Central air conditioning (for those hot DC summers!) and central
      heating (for those cold DC winters!)

   *  Backyard carport (for that hard-to-find DC parking)

   *  $950/mth


      If interested contact:  
         In Washington, DC, call Hector Ericksen
              (H) 202-543-6286 or (W) 202-588-8036
         In California, call Caryl 510-654-8058

                         OR
       
         Reply to this message with your name and phone numbers
         where you may be contacted.  I'll pass the information
         on to the owner.
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tom Snyder (Re: More on Roseanne & Cast)
Date: 19 Dec 92 01:41:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec19.014143.15650
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1gte74INNo3u@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <1992Dec18.121028.19937@spdcc.com> 
>joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
>
>> Does anyone remember the Tom Snyder show in the '70s?
>
><Raises hand>
>
>> Talking about
>> 'gay' on TV reminded me of this 70's oddity. It was really
>> unpredictable, and usually ran at 1am. I remember once Paul Williams
>> followed by Johnny Rotten (Williams grabbed the camera and said "the
>> guy after me is reeeealy weiiiird", which, if you know how williams
>> comes across, is the height of irony). 
>
>Tom Snyder's show (called "Tomorrow", since it came after
>"Tonight" and before "Today") was incredibly strange, even
>for a 1970s TV show.  And whatever happened to Paul Williams?  
>He was ubiquitous in the 1970s, but I haven't heard about him 
>in ages.
>
>> Th highlight of one show was
>> the episode where Snyder went into a gay disco full of half-dressed
>> clones covered in sweat and talked about his 'feelings'. Very good
>> stuff for a 14-year-old fag in backwoods Tennessee to watch.
>
>I remember a show he did once on groupies.  One of the
>groupies, a screaming queen named Chuckie who I knew
>slightly, seemed to freak Snyder out almost as much as 
>he intrigued him.  Chuckie claimed that Snyder came on
>to him, but then Chuckie claimed that *everyone* came
>on to him.

I've heard things about Snyder but... that's beside the point.
"Tomorrow", though now it seems like ordinary public access cable
("Hollywood Kids"), actually was quite influential to me in defining
one of the primary functions of television - to get people to perform
self-consciously. There are documentary film styles which do that, but
none so well; you don't have the same feedback systems. People mug and
go on for TV in ways they just never would for film (outside of "The
Factory"). Is that interesting? It is when you've got great
personalities. (who said: one doesn't rehearse for television - it is
all reherarsal).

The second functions is the highlighting the random nature of life.
The discontinuities between episodes of any show, from "Dallas" to "I
Love Lucy" are perfect; no character development, no morals, no
antecedent/consequence; and most importantly, no
thesis/antithesis/synthesis. It all becomes crablike, scuttling from
scenario to scenario, endless repetition of a few basic forms without
rhyme or reason. All serialized fiction forms are inferior to
television.

No ObMOTSS.


-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Aladdin
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:01:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1992Dec15.095307.8114@leland.Stanford.EDU> prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson) writes:
>Also, the animator who did Jafar is openly gay.  He also did Gaston
>from "Beauty and the Beast."  There's a good article on him in the
>latest _Advocate_.  Apparently, Disney is a fairly gay-positive
>company.  

At the risk of perpetuating a stereotype, any company whose livelihood
depends on art had better be a tolerant company.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Dyke to head HHS
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 12:16:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.211317.24072@draco.macsch.com> Bryan
J.  Blumberg <bjb@macsch.com> writes:

>     If Clinton is going to make an appointment of an openly gay
>person to a cabinet level position, I think many people will care.
>     I for one, do.

Well, I can tell you quite definitively that Donna Shalala
is not *openly* gay.  There have always been rumors, but
there has never been a public statement from her that would
confirm or deny the rumors.  My own guess is that she's
probably a lesbian, but deeply closeted.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Posting Styles
Date: 17 Dec 1992 13:23:45 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Greg Parkinson writes
>There's really two ways to deal with people on the
>net.  One is to try and figure out where they're 
>coming from, what their motives and agendas are,
>and to respond to that no matter what their words
>say.  This method requires that you be a very good
>judge of people.
>
>The other is to take what people write at face value - 
>when someone says "fuck you" you respond to that.
>If your style is to say "fuck you" back, then you
>say it.  Period.  This method requires that you
>read clearly and for content.

I have a theory, developed over 4 1/2 years and experience
on 3 networks.  If someone says "fuck you," or posts to
you with that "have you stopped beating your spouse yet?"
attitude, just ignore them.  You can't reason with
people like that.  Why bother?

(Of course, we just say "f*ck you" on GEnie...;->)

I like to attempt to enter into dialogues with people, and try
to avoid the diatribes (not always successfully, mind you).  
When you find you can't reason with folks, add them to your kill file.  

Yours for a more "rational network..."

*   NeXT: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com * GEnie:  Laurie.Mann   *
*In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak*
*because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I*
*didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade*
*unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist..*
*Then they came for me---and by that time no one was left to speak*
*speak up.  [Martin Niemoeller]   Why to March on Washington, 4/93*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: The word 'homophobia'
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:26:26 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality

In article <1992Dec16.140618.13097@bsu-ucs>, 00daspeakman@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
(David Speakman, Ball State University) wrote:

> > owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
> > 
> > I still feel that this is an overworked and misapplied word.  A phobia
> > is a FEAR of something.  But homosexuals use it for 'fear', 'dislike',
> > or whatever.  Dislike of blacks just because they are black is racISM,
> > not racOPHOBIA.  

> Mr. Rowley,  maybe hatred and dislike have a basis in FEAR. i.e. are the 
> result of fear of the consequences of non-heterosexual participation in
> every aspect of society.

It's *so* nice to have another clueless little faery rejoin the
fray.  And *what*, exactly, are these 'heterosexuals' afraid of,
dear?  That we will rape their nubile teenage sons?  Probably not.
That we will force ostrich-feather boas down their throats?  
Probably not.  

Owen is right.  'Homophobia' is a *ridiculously* over-used word
amongst homosexuals.  A profound dislike for something is not
indicative of *fear.*  I profoundly dislike Anderson.  I'm 
certainly not afraid of the cow.  I profoundly dislike dog-barf
on the living-room carpet.  I'm not particularly afraid of it.

The 'homophobes' profoundly disklike homosexuals.  Perhaps the
very, very religious 'fear' that some divine retribution may
come about as a result of allowing tinkerbells free run of the
store, but beyond that - there isn't squat that we can do 
that is a threat. No threat, no fear.

That phobias are 'irrational' is bullshit.  Many are firmly
rooted in a profound sense of avoiding pain.  Fear of heights
is rational.  Fear of snakes is rational.  Fear of huge poisonous
spiders is rational.  Fear of drowning is rational.  Many
of these can be taken to ridiculous extremes, but the fear is
often based on a credible danger (i.e. *death*).  

The homosexual community is *tiny* - and of no credible danger
to the rest of society.  

Their dislike is rooted in something other than fear.  Whatever
the fuck is their problem, 'homophobia' does not describe it
very accurately.  It seems, to me, to be designed to make the
homosexuals who use it feel 'dangerous.'  We're *dangerous*,
you see.  Everyone is *afraid* of us.

Nonsense.

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: The Hard Nut
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:58:57 GMT

Anyone see it last night (on public television)? Sheer bliss. I've
never seen so many men on pointe before...

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico

      You're like one of those... 'Cabbage Patch' creatures...
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Devil CD's
Date: 13 Dec 1992 21:15:01 -0500
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, NJ, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp

In article <1992Dec11.202842.25715@athena.mit.edu> Charlie Fulton <charlie@isis.mit.edu> writes:

>Vinyl 4ever!

Vinyl?  I prefer leather.

Ooops, wrong topic.

Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
Heros falling to the ground / like hell's magnet / pulls me down / on my knees
/ I try to please his eyes / his idol eyes. / Jerking motions won't revive him
/ mouth to mount resusitation / I just lay down beside him / and idolize.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rks@cscns.com (gisle j benediktsson)
Subject: Re: ,,,
Followup-To: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Organization: Community_News_Service
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:11:23 GMT

re: How dare one 'tolerate' us..

   I have to agree with this statement very strongly. I was watching
a TV show recently during which one of the panelists made the statement
that it is "noble to put your hand out to the rejected" and I got so
damned pissed that I wanted to shoot the television! What kind of an
arrogant asshole would figure that ANYONE should want to accept the
table scraps of 'tolerance' from another??

   Presuming that every relationship is a voluntary social contract, I
would be willing to accept two options: flat rejection or ACCEPTANCE.
Period. 


potty-mouth gisle



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:38:46 GMT
Organization: (getting there)
Keywords: Gay food


Gretchen klotz, Emily Rizzo and Joseph Francis contribute, um,
suggestive cookery hints.

They reminded me that I have a copy of the Erotic Baker cookbook
(by the owners of the bakery of the same name).

Among the "appeteasers" are Beefy Parts, Celery in Bondage,
cock-Teasers, Devilish Whores d'oeuvres, Furry Cheese Balls,
Mozzarella Mammaries, and Teeny Weenies.  

For what they call "The Main affair" they suggest--among other
things, Broken Heart, Kiss My Pork Butt, Donna's Penis Pie (I must
look that one up), and Tongue Teaser.

There are Boob and Golden Globe Omelets, Amorous Avocado salad, and
desserts including Brandied Bottoms, Flmaing Queens, Nipple Noshes,
and Spare Parts Sugar Cookies.

I don't believe I've ever actually used any of the recipes in this
book, now that I think of it.  Hmmmm.....

-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Subject: Re: The MOW Platform (was Re: NOTICE - Details...)
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United
	<1992Dec13.223840.20089@netcom.com> <1ggpufINN917@plts.uucp>
	<1992Dec15.142745.15307@rtsg.mot.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:08:58 GMT

yorton@turtle11.rtsg.mot.com (James J. Yorton) writes:

>And someone is going to have to rattle off cases of transgender
>discrimination, one, two, three, boom, boom, boom, to justify having
>it in 4 of the 7 main platform items.

you want an example of transgender discrimination?

transsexualism is explicited excluded for being considered a mental
disability in the Americans with Disablities Act.  pretty much any
other mental disability qualifies, however.

kelly
--
Most system flaws can be attributed to unwarrantedly anthropomorphizing the
user.
	-- T.C.Bennett@syse.salford.ac.uk
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads:  women posting and "cures" and its spinoffs)
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:40:52 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Dec11.103649.26466@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson
Minar) wrote:

> don't forget, Melmon is an anti-intellectual. He doesn't read. Oh,
> unless maybe Piers Anthony did the novelization. I can see it already,
> Malcolm X in a cute fantasy story about nice horsies.

You are, of course, aware - Nelson - that the book is *already* out?
Then again, maybe you are not.

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss