HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Op-ed piece on telephone Caller ID
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 05:56:53 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
Distribution: usa

kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:


>I have nothing against Caller ID, but I am sick of the antiprivacy
>Caller ID people who insist on Caller ID with no blocking.

>They say that blocking ruins Caller ID, but how is this so? If I block
>my number and call your home, you can just ignore my call. (You can
>tell it is blocked because *only* blocked calls will show up as "P" on
>the display.) So, I don't block my calls to your home.

>In other words with Caller ID *and* blocking, the caller and the
>callee decide for themselves what information will be exchanged.  I
>think this is much better than Caller ID w/ no blocking in where the
>phone company decides.

The only part missing is giving me the ability to automatically block
incoming calls originating from caller*ID-blocked lines.  Given 
that, we are in full agreement.  I currently implement that policy 
administratively by observing the caller*ID box and not answering
blocked calls.  What I really want is for the ringer to never actuate
if the caller*ID is blocked.

(Before anyone asks, there is a separate Caller*ID code for "blocked"
as opposed to "out of area".)

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Op-ed piece on telephone Caller ID
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 04:19:04 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
Distribution: usa

trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:

>>>>>> "John" == John De Armond <jgd@dixie.com> writes:

>John> The only part missing is giving me the ability to automatically block
>John> incoming calls originating from caller*ID-blocked lines.  Given 

>Look in Sears' big catalog.  They have a caller ID unit which will route all
>incoming blocked calls to a message stating that Blocked calls aren't accepted.
>Also has 50 number memory, does names if your telco supports it...  I haven't
>used it myself, but it looks quite nice, and at apx. $80, not too much
>different than what Bell Atlantic sold me my puny little display for. :-)

I'm aware of these gadgets but I do NOT want another little plastic box
with wires hanging out attached to my phone.  The problems with these
jerry rigs are many:

*	The necessity to wire the house's phones to route through these boxes.
	Major problem for people who did not build their house like mine with
	each jack terminated in a wire closet on 66 blocks.

* 	none of the "magic plastic boxes" I've tried to date have enough ringer
	drive to run more than a couple of phones.  I have about 8 ringer
	equivalents in my house.  The Bell Broad does just fine running
	these.

*	When lightening comes in, I get to pay for fixing the box that does
	something the Bell Broad should be doing.

*	While the blocked*ID caller is figuring out no one is going to 
	answer, my line is busy.  It may or may not be a long period of
	time but it IS a period during which I cannot use the phone.

*	Caller*ID blocked blocking (say that three times in a row :-) is
	a CO function that should not be handed off to subscriber
	equipment.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
From: dwn@bnl.gov (Dave Niebuhr)
Subject: Re: License plates make you safer
Reply-To: dwn@bnl.gov
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:01:33 GMT


---
Dave Niebuhr      Internet: niebuhr@bnl.gov / Bitnet: niebuhr@bnl
Brookhaven National Laboratory Upton, NY 11973  (516)-282-3093

In article <1jr6ilINNej1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cs737@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John B. Baron) writes:

>offer).  Oh, but you scoff, that would never happen.  Unfortunately, banks
>and finance companies consider car dealerships much more important customers
>than you or me.  

They sure do.  GMAC is stuck with over 400 million owed to it by John
McNamara who ripped them off royally over the last several years.  It stil
isn't known how much he really owes them and others (plus the politicians
he bought off).

Dave

Xref: sparky alt.privacy:3035 alt.drugs:21294 misc.jobs.misc:8866
From: palmer@icat.larc.nasa.gov (Michael T. Palmer)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,alt.drugs,misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: email privacy laws
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:03:41 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: icat.larc.nasa.gov

noah@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Noah Spurrier) writes:

>I don't think that Email is at all covered by any sort of privacy laws. HA HA

Absolutely incorrect.  The Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA) of
1986 raises email and other communications to the same status as paper mail.
It is a FEDERAL CRIME to read or tamper with someone's email (except for
system operators, you can view it solely for insuring quality of service and
compliance with other laws - this was a major sticking point of the ECPA).

You can anonymous ftp the entire text of the ECPA from ftp.eff.org (I'm not
sure which directory; but it was easy to find).

-- 
Michael T. Palmer, M/S 152, NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA 23681
Voice: 804-864-2044,   FAX: 804-864-7793,   Email: m.t.palmer@larc.nasa.gov
RIPEM Public Key now available  --  Consider it an envelope for your e-mail
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: CA Seatbelt law
Date: 27 Jan 1993 15:34:57 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <C1H3qn.M74@megatest.com> bbowen@megatest.com (Bruce Bowen) writes:
>  Now the question is, what if the passenger "neglected" to bring any
>identification with him?  What's the cop gonna do in this case?
---
	It is up to the cop's discretion whether to cite the driver or
the passenger.

-wat-
-- 

:: If pro-choice means choice after conception, does this apply to men too? ::
From: jmcging@access.digex.com (John McGing)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: Bill, Hillary, Chelsea, and their SSNs
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:16:54 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt MD USA
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: jmcging@access.digex.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

sean@cobra.dra.com writes:

>Among other things, the Social Security files are used in dozens of computer
>matching programs with other government agencies (the more people you share
>a secret with, the harder it is to keep).  There was also a proposal called
>NCIC 2000 which would have linked SSA files with those of the FBI, DEA,
>Customs, INS, etc.  In the past the SSA has verified names and SSNs for
>companies such as TRW until ordered by the courts to stop.  Well, you get
>the idea....

>Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO
>Domain: sean@sdg.dra.com, Voice: (Work) +1 314-432-1100
Sean,

SSA, during a period of a strongly partisan, pro-business administration
did verify SSN's for TRW and some other company.  However, it wasn't a
court case which caused them to stop, it was the outrage at getting
involved with this in the first place.  It was a decision made by a
political appointee to do so, and she stopped when held to the fire of
public opinion.  A later political appointee formally made such matches
forbidden.

And I never meant to imply that the government doesn't share data between
agencies (Check the required public notices from the Computer Matching and
Privacy Act) because many of those are legislated matches!  Doing them is
the law, not some optional fun thing done by a crazy bureaucrat <g>.  But
any access outside these is strictly limited, if allowed at all.

You've got a very valid point about how these things seem to multiply,
however.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
jmcging@oss724.ssa.gov  or jmcging@access.digex.com    
SSA, your FICA tax people    woodb!oss2cc!jmcging@soaf1  
J.MCGING on GEnie  70142,1357 on Compuserve
From: dgillmor@msen.com (Dan Gillmor)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: Op-ed piece on telephone Caller ID
Date: 21 Jan 1993 11:57:38 GMT
Organization: Detroit Free Press
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

John De Armond (jgd@dixie.com) wrote:

: Actually Enhanced Caller*ID now becoming available in many areas DOES 
: transmit the name of the caller.  I like that feature.  I don't have
: to quickly search a list of numbers of people I'll take calls from
: while the phone rings away.

Unless Enhanced Called ID is smarter than we think, it can only transmit
the name to which the caller's phone number is registered -- not quite the
same as the name of the caller.

--
Dan Gillmor                                      Internet: dgillmor@msen.com
Detroit Free Press                               CompuServe: 73240,334
321 W. Lafayette                                 Voice: 313-222-6659
Detroit, MI 48226                                Fax: 313-222-5981
Xref: sparky alt.privacy:3067 misc.taxes:4278
Organization: Hidden - I don't speak for them...
X-Stuff:      <This should be witty, but I'm too tired right now.>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 08:46:49 EST
From: David B. Horvath, CDP <MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,misc.taxes
Subject:    NJ Inspectors invade PA and NY

Philadelphia Inquirer, Monday January 25, 1993:
In from NJ to bag their own tags.  Insurance fraud investigators were
taking down numbers.  Drivers found to be living outside the state will
face fines.
By Doreen Carvajal Inquirer Staff Writer

   Shortly after daybreak, Elizabeth Ortiz paused to count the slippery
catch of the dat that yielded three Mercedeses, a Jaguar and several
gleaming specimens of Cadillac's new luxury edition, the Allante.


Summary:
  NJ Inspectors went into Philadelphia and the high-income PA Mainline and
NYC to find NJ license plates on cars parked in other states.  If they find
one, they take the number down and cross reference it with tax and voting
records.  The theory is that if you're in the other state at 6am on a
Saturday and you didn't pay taxes in NJ, you're using a NJ address to
illegally reduce your auto insurance.

  Last year at this time, they ran a similar sweep.  They even lifted
car covers and took down VIN's of expensive cars without license plates.
I don't know if they went on to private property or looked into garages
to check.  The article also noted that a lot of out-of-state plates
were found in PA and NY (non-PA, non-NY, non-NJ).

  I guess NJ doesn't believe in sleep-over dates, visiting relatives, or
travelling for fun/business.  The fine is something like $5000.  They only
targeted wealthy areas and expensive cars.  I guess they didn't want to
waste their time on small fry.

  The justification is that insurance rates are lower in NJ than in
Philadelphia and NYC, and therefore, the people who live in PHL/NYC but
register their cars in NJ are actually costing each NJ driver $80/year
in higher insurance premiums and therefore are committing fraud.

  200 of the 600 cars noted in PA were also caught in last years sweep.
I guess people shouldn't stay at their relatives/girl-guy friends overnight
or have to work in the early morning (third shift) if they're from NJ.

      - David Horvath

Replies after 1/29/93 to dhorvath@mail.sas.upenn.edu
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
Date: 21 Jan 1993 09:02:27 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
NNTP-Posting-Host: carina.unm.edu


SSNs are dangerous things.
With a name and SSN, I can find out a whole lot about you really fast.
I can find out where you live, where you have lived in the past, I can
check your entire credit history, find out your criminal records, down to
the tiniest traffic violations, etc. etc.

And if I was nasty and wanted to play illegal, I could get your school
records, information about your taxes, family, medical history, insurance,
etc. etc.

r.
Xref: sparky alt.privacy:3037 alt.drugs:21295 misc.jobs.misc:8867
From: kkruse@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Korey J. Kruse)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,alt.drugs,misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
Date: 22 Jan 1993 17:38:24 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee) writes:

>In article <1jltqfINNi4b@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, kkruse@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Korey J. Kruse) writes:
>|> Actually many companies now require SSN #'s before they make a hiring
>|> decision. 

>What kinds of companies are these?  I've worked for several companies
>over the years and have received offers from many more.  I've never
>been asked for a SSN until after starting work.

Actually I don't have a list of companies or remember any references to
ones that I have heard about, but I have read about the decrease in
privacy that many companies are forcing.   I'm sure all of Ross Perot's
companies require the SSN's.   He seems to invade his employees privacy
in almost every other matter.
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
From: monwel@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (douglas.w.monroe)
Subject: Illicit uses of SSN (was Re: Why People use SSN's on DL's.)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:48:23 GMT

In article <BENH.93Jan19173938@gradient.cis.upenn.edu> benh@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Ben Harrison) writes:
>
>Now here's my real point... so what?  If I tell everyone my SSN (which
>as I said, I might as well be doing), what can people do with it?
>It's not like a Visa number (tho lots of clerks get that on receipts,
>and could very easily make use of it), which can be used to make mail
>order purchases.  What can you actually use someone's SSN for?
>
>--- Ben Harrison ---


Well, lets see. Off the top of my head:

1)Sell your number to an illegal immigrant who needs one to get papers.
From "What to do when they ask for your SSN" SSN FAQ by Chris Hibbert CPSR:
"The market for stolen numbers increased in 1976 with the passage of the 
Immigration Reform law... Workers need to know what name goes with the number
so they won't be caught as quickly."

2)I could report interest paid to you (by me or some other name/number) to the 
IRS. 

3)Gaining access to school records, credit reports, medical histories, etc.
Granted not as big a deal or problematic as 1 or 2, but an invasion of
privacy none-the-less. 

Basically, anyone can make pretense calls and the
called party, be it a banker, school records clerk, or whatever, is going
to be more convinced that the caller is the "right" person simply because
they possess the magic key they are looking for (SSN) This may only cause
you temporary grief and be a nuisance to straighten out. But can you imagine 
the trouble you would have to go through to get out of the #2 mess above with
the IRS? Please note I am not advocating the use of any of these tactics, but
somebody out there just might be pissed off enough at you to try it. Read 
"Privacy for Sale" by Jeff Rothfeder, check your local library, for other
horror stories of information abuse.

my 2 cents...
-- 
                                                          Doug Monroe
                   				       dwm@pruxl.pr.att.com
  						 or   monwel@cbnewsk.cb.att.com
Xref: sparky alt.privacy:3038 alt.drugs:21301 misc.jobs.misc:8868
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,alt.drugs,misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: email privacy laws
Date: 22 Jan 1993 21:11:15 GMT
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Distribution: world
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: alhambra.pa.dec.com

While there are several laws protecting electronic information
communication, these usually do not protect employees from their
employers.  Companies generally have the right to search company
property at any time.  This includes searching e-mail files stored
on company-owned computer systems.

I'm not saying that this is "morally right", just that it is the law.
There have been several cases recently where employees have been fired
or sued after employers read through files stored on company hardware.
There are also a few more infamous cases, such as Oliver North's e-mail
being used against him or Bush administration staffers being prevented
(by court order) from erasing e-mail notes before Clinton took over.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,ca.driving,misc.consumers,misc.legal
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Am I being sleazed by this insurance company?
Organization: insert anything here
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:48:19 GMT

savoia@sw.stratus.com (Rick Savoia) writes:
>coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu (Mike Coleman) writes:
>>Is the insurance company's behavior improper?  Illegal?  Would all companies
>>ask for this, or did I just find a dud?


	[Listing roommates on insurance]

>Nope.  It's not a dud. Here in MA, if you are living with
>someone who is not  a family member, you have to list 
>them on your insurance if they are going to be driving your
>car.  


	Incorrect.

	That depends on the individual insurance company.
Travelers wanted me to list everyone in the household,
including my 17 year old brother on my policy.  My dad was
a truck driver for UPS, I have a manual xmission car and
my brother couldn't drive it.  they insisted.  I left.
I walked down the street, went into another insurnace office
(Aetna - this was some time ago), and asked about this point-blank.
They said that if the other people were only driving the car
rarely, I didn't need to put them on the policy.

	My partner and I are not on each other's policies.

	The general rule is - if the other person is more of a liability,
you're better of putting them on the policy.  For most companies,
the insurance rate is set to the most liable person.  IF your roommates
*are* going to be using the car in any regular fashion, you're
better off putting htem on and divvying up the bill accordingly.
Some companies will try to levy an additional surcharge on you,
in that case you might as well find another agent [*].

>If you don't and get into and accident, then you are
>completely responsible.  The insurance company will not 
>even go to bat for you.  For instance, even if roomate #1
>takes the car 200 yards down the road and gets into an 
>accident, your car would be uninsured for her unless she
>is listed.   

	That's not entirely true - they do make exceptions for
extraordinary circumstances.  The burden of proof is on you
to convince them that those circumstances exist.  The main reason
for this policy is to stop people from having higher-risk
drivers using the car without the rider for them.  In MA
people of lower-risk are covered.  My father just changed his insurance
over to list my sister.  The rate only reflects her because with his 
driving record he represents no additional liability.  He's paying
more, but she's covered too.  

	My roommate isn't on my policy but he's in a lower-risk group
than I am.  If I want to add him, I can, but it won't cost me any
more (I checked on this).

BBC

[*] At this point someone is probably going to bring up that all
MA rates are fixed.  Yes, they are fixed for specific items.
How those items are clumped and sold is left up to the insurance
companies.  Therefore you ***can*** shop and find better rates,
even in MA.  I went from $1,200/year down to $850/year doing just this.
From: trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: NJ Inspectors invade PA and NY
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:37:17 GMT
Followup-To: alt.privacy
Distribution: usa
Organization: ASCI

>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Tobias <tobias@oasys.dt.navy.mil> writes:

Steve>     I thought New Jersey had the highest auto insurance rates in the
Steve> entire country. Also, how would PA and NY drivers registering in NJ
Steve> cost NJ drivers money? If anything, I would think NJ would benefit

NJ's a lot cheaper than Philadelphia, and I would suspect NYC.  There's a
big difference from registering your car in the middle of nowhere, PA, and
Philadelphia in terms of pricing.

Philly's a lot more dangerous place to drive than most of NJ, so I would
assuming these people would push up the average number of accidents, etc...

Bob
Xref: sparky alt.privacy:3001 alt.drugs:21233 misc.jobs.misc:8826
Organization: Hidden - I don't speak for them...
X-Stuff:      <This should be witty, but I'm too tired right now.>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 10:06:44 EST
From: David B. Horvath, CDP <MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,alt.drugs,misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
 <1jk591INN96s@tamsun.tamu.edu>

In article <1jk591INN96s@tamsun.tamu.edu>, bell@cs.tamu.edu (Will Bell) says:
>
>In article <93020.095246MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> David B. Horvath, CDP
><MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> writes:
>>I saw the included ad in Computerworld January 18, 1993, page
>>85 - the Computer Careers section.  They want your SSN before
>>they even talk to you.  What for?
>
>Guesses:
>1.  They have never had to deal with a legion of people who demand privacy
>    and refuse to give out their ssn, and they didn't know any better.
>2.  They are entering some or all of your information into a database keyed
>    to the SSN, and can't be bothered with generating an alternate ID number.
>3.  They are screening for employment eligibility -- if you don't have a SSN
>    then you can't work.  (This isn't necessarily true, right?)
>4.  THey are flat-out stupid.
>
>WBB
>
>--
>Will Bell -- bell@cs.tamu.edu -- Live from the heart of Scenic Central Texas
>"Why did you pour ink on my head?"

  My guess is that they are doing prescreens - credit checks, verification of
  employement history (via resume vs. credit report), medical/drug use/smoking
  history checks via the Medical Information Burea.

         - David Horvath
From: trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: Op-ed piece on telephone Caller ID
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:24:28 GMT
	<1993Jan22.104536.66@cobra.dra.com>
Organization: ASCI

>>>>> "sean" == sean  <sean@cobra.dra.com> writes:

sean> Just a little while ago there was a newspaper story about the
sean> state of New York sending tax collectors to New Jersey to write
sean> down the license plate numbers of cars parked in shopping malls
sean> with New York State plates.

sean> They then sent the owners of those cars letters demanding that
sean> they pay New York Sales (or Use) Tax on anything they purchased
sean> in New Jersey and brought back to New York State.

A day or so ago Philadelphia, PA police drove through the residential areas
of Philly and it's suburbs, taking down the plate numbers of vehicles that
have NJ license plates.  These plate numbers are being turned over to NJ,
who will mail each person a request to show proof of residency in NJ.

This is to try and cut down on the number of people registering their cars
in NJ to get much cheaper insurance.

Fine is $5000, $15,000 for 3rd time offenders.

Apparently, they got around 5000 plate numbers.

Bob
Newsgroups: alt.privacy