HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cavrak@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Steve Cavrak)
Subject: Re: The Voyage, again
Originator: cavrak@newton.emba.uvm.edu
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 08:41:42 GMT

From article <22889@galaxy.ucr.edu>, by pranata@watserv.ucr.edu (Krisanto Pranata):
> 
> Now that 'The Voyage' has premiered, anyone out there care to share their  
> experience (from those who saw it live and on the broadcast)?
> 

Hi Kris !

Well, I reorganized my evening to catch it and am glad that I did.

Somewhere early on, either late in the prolog, or early in the first
act, I was struck by how "Wagnerian" this was.  Then quickly thought
that Benjamin Britten might be a better analogy.  There was a warmth
and luxuriousness to the score that was "un-glasslike" (not really).

In one of the intermission interviews, Glass makes a passing comment
that there were particular challenges in making the score playable by
the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra -- basically to the effect that he
had to go a bit easy.  He also pointed out that he had orchestral
textures available that he hadn't had a chance to explore before.

Later still, the conductor and the singers were discussing the
"problems" of keeping your place among all of those eigth-notes.  (Once
or twice, I found myself trying to sort out the bars, but never for
more than about 4 or 5!)  All, however, were enthusiastic, even psyched
up, for the performance.  Only noticed one or two misplaced horn notes.

And it came through.  My favorite was Particia Schuman as The
Commander.  What a great voice !  Her aria just before the final scene
/ section of the first act was right in there with some of Strauss.

I like the pacing of the whole thing - and so, apparently, did the
live audience.  Each of the acts reach a definitely operatic climax.
The third act was the roughest - maybe because it did not have its own
climax but had to leave that to the Epilogue. 

Steve

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just before the opera, I was reading the NYTs and read the review
of Darius Milhaud's Christop Colombo.  It would be good to compare
the two - Glass mentioned that he studied with Milhaud for a while.
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: EMI price increase
Date: 13 Oct 92 01:55:08 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <Bw0nuF.926@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>In article <92283.135948MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET> <MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET> writes:

>Think it through, please: the costs of pressing the silver disk itself
>are the tiniest part of the expense that the recording needs to earn
>back.  What about
>
>Hiring the hall or studio
>Hiring the orchestra

   [ and so on ]

>
>If a company has sunk $500,000 or so into a recording, the only way they
>can earn it back is by their X% of each copy sold.  Given the way such
>expenses keep going up, one could make a case that CDs cost too LITTLE
>in this country (they cost significantly more in Europe).  I'm not going
>to push that case myself -- like anyone else, I don't want to pay more.
>But compare the increase in all the above expenses in the last 2 decades
>to the rise in record prices.  A CD seems like a bargain.

CDs are way more expensive than vinyl discs used to be, even allowing for
inflation. The costs of the things you mention are much the same for any
recording medium. Funny sort of bargain.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: abrocke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Aaron Brockett)
Subject: Vox Box (Was Re: Brendel's Beethoven on Vox Box CDs)
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:02:10 GMT

In article <9210122029.AA20641@software.pulse.com>,
lampson@software.pulse.com (Dave Lampson) writes:

deleted stuff

 by Gilels, Goode and Arrau are excellent on the whole.  Still, I don't
> hesitate to recommend the Vox recordings as a low-cost place to begin.
> Particularly when you can get these occasionally great performances
> by Brendel (which I favor marginally over his more conservative and 
> somewhat less exciting Philips set) for a little over $30, you can't 
> go wrong.
> 
> 
> Dave
> lampson@pulse.com

This seems like a perfect opportunity to pose a question about the general
quality of the performances on the Vox label. I know it's often misleading
to attept to generalize about the output of an entire company, but if
anyone could do so, I'd appreciate it. Given their price, I would be able
to explore a lot of repetoire I might otherwise not be able to afford. So,
are the performances decent? Are they worth the 4-6 dollars? Please
enlighten me.

--Aaron
Brockett
From: bellmann@qut.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: QDIR/ALLjuestion about Penderecki's 2nd Symphony
Date: 8 Oct 92 10:48:00 EST
Organization: Queensland University of Technology

   I was in Houston at the beginning of 1981 (I remember reading in the
newspapers about the death of both Barber and Hanson)...Well, at about the
same time Penderecki visited Houston. He gave a lecture at the University
and conducted the Houston Symphony in a concert of his works. My work prevented
me to attend the concert. I planned to tape it from tha KLEF but we were held
until later than usual. I got home too late for the beginning of his recently
completed Second Symphony. I was so pissed off that just started the cassette
I happened to have on the deck at the moment. Consequently, the recording of
the Symphony lacked not only the beginning but also the ending, as the tape ran
out. 
   Years later I got the Pavane recording of it, which is conducted by one
Kasprzyk. I tried to convince myself that it was a good rendition but every
time I compare it to the excerpt I still keep I get mad. Kasprzyk's version
is gutless no matter how loud I play it, whereas the emotional intensity in
Penderecki's own is overwhelming.
   Now, only once I've seen an advertisement of a recording of the work by
Penderecki. It was in an issue of Fanfare from the '86, and it was just one
of the soon-to-arrive releases from an imported record shop whose name I
forgot. I wrote to them at the time and they didn't reply.
   The question is: Does anybody know of the existence of such recording,
whether in CD or LP? Does anybody have it? I love the work, despite the
intrusion of Stille Nacht...

Hector
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: sources of new ridgy black stuff
Date: 13 Oct 92 12:30:18 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Oct12.113740.9427@vax.oxford.ac.uk> wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>In article <BvtGJK.Hnv@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>> What companies still put interesting stuff out on LP (meaning *not* Placido
>> Pavarotti Sings Carmina Burana's Greatest Four Seasons), and where do you
>> get their catalogues and order it from?  ECM is the only one I see in the
>> shops here.

>Virtually none of the record companies are still releasing LPs; most shops,
>even specialist shops no longer stock them new. And don't expect CDs to be
>superseded for another twenty years or so: friends in the record-selling
>business think that CDs and DCC will co-exist like LPs and MCs.


I agree on the part about CDs--they are too convenient, too easy, and too
widly accepted by consumers to disappear anytime soon. However, some small
labels are still releasing LPs--Woodwind Services and Origin Jazz Library
are two that spring to mind right off the bat.

r
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky)
Subject: Alkan's Death
Reply-To: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 15:34:56 GMT

My original reply to the Alkan trivia question had a haughty sound to it,
to which I apologize.

The article about Alkan's death is to be found in the Musical Times of
March 1988, p. 118-120.  In brief, it summarizes the various contemporary
accounts of his death and how, in the course of time, the original story
became wildly embellished, particularly when Humphrey Searle chose to
include it in the 1954 edition of Grove.  Briefly, the conclusion of the
article is that Alkan was in the kitchen when he probably had a sudden
attack of dizziness.  In order to support himself, he tried to grab hold of
a piece of furniture, but landed on the floor with the piece of furniture
(an armoire) on top of him.  There he lay for a couple of hours until a
housekeeper found him.  He died several hours later.

It seems that someone should assemble a collection of apocryphal stories 
from the lives of musicians (Beethoven's meeting with Mozart, Toscanini's
'incontri' with Verdi, etc.) to which the Alkan death can be added.

Bob Kosovsky
Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
New York Public Library -- Music Division
bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Date: 15 Oct 92 05:57:57 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Oct15.033637.27280@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.000010.474@Princeton.EDU>
>roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

>> He had hardly any "classical" REPERTOIRE to compete with.

>The classics then were different than the ones we have now. People

And there were fewer of them, and they constituted a smaller portion
of the repertoire.

>regarded the greats that they (Verdi et al.) were compared to
>differently than the greats today. 

Indeed.  The repertoire was a repertoire of replacement--with a few
exception, there *were* no classics, *were* no greats that everyone
assumed would be played forever.

>Example: Rossini's Otello was
>considered a classic before Verdi eclipsed him as it was when Rossini
>eclipsed Paisello's Barber.

Indeed.  These composers were not considered "great" in the sense 
we consider Verdi and Rossini great.  There was no attempt to revive
lesser works, no attempt to creat complete editions, no attempt to
create a "canon" of their works.

>Verdi's rivals were far more numerous and talented than those that
>stand in Glass' way. 

 Wrong.  Unlike Verdi, Glass has Mozart and Wagner and Puccini and
Verdi standing in his way--there are only so many dates in an operatic
season, and the vast majority of operagoers aren't interested in *anything*
new.  Glass has to compete with the entire, fixed, unchanging repertoire
of acknowledged "greats" -- who happen to be dead.

>If Glass can compose really masterful stuff then
>the opera lovers will want to see it and it will be incorporated. Can

How the hell will they ever know?  Before last year, the Met hadn't
bothered to put on a new opera in a quarter century.

>you compare the Voyage to Tosca, La Boheme, or Turandot? When you can
>then we'll have modern opera. 

Did you hear me say that the piece was any good?  It was the automatic
dismissal of the piece that seemed out of place to me.  

Face it; there's no point in doing new opera (or old opera like Handel's
Giulio Cesare) at the Met.  The Met is a museum of old operas, with a
commitment to lavish, star-studded productions of those operas and those
operas only.  It does not revive lesser-known operas (there are 14 or
so Verdi operas the Met has *never* done); nor does it have an audience
that is interested in new operas.  The scene is quite different in major
European cities, where new opera is often performed.  There, Glass and
other modern composers get their works played, and it's not a quarter-century
event or anything either.  

Roger
From: alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: EMI price increase
Date: 13 Oct 1992 19:09:29 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: calvin.usc.edu

In article <1992Oct13.173455.15732@leland.Stanford.EDU> velde@gopher.Stanford.EDU (Francois Velde) writes:
>If they don't, what does? If the high price of CDs is only due to
>the big bad companies price-gouging, why are the CDs cheaper in the
>US (inclusive of transportation costs) than in Europe?
>Note that this price differential exists in a number of other products
>(stereo, consumer electronics, computer equipment, etc).

I don't see what price-gouging has to do with the price differential in
CDs between the US and Europe, but I believe that the difference is mainly
due to luxury and other European taxes not found in the US coupled with the
poor exchange rate of the dollar.

>Competition, in principle, is what prevents producers from extracting all
>this extra willingness-to-spend from me. If there isn't enough competition
>in the CD business, write to the European Commission (I'll write to my 
>Justice Department); or maybe there can't be competition, because there is
>only one Pavarotti.

This last phrase rings closer to the truth. The recording companies are to
a certain extent insulated from true competition because price is generally
NOT the first criterion most people have in buying a CD. There is just one
Pavarotti.

>If that is the case, why don't predatory CD companies take advantage of 
>that, sell only cheap CDs and capture all the market?

Because of what I wrote above and earlier. A company producing a cheap CD
with any old tenor won't necessarily capture the market away from Pavarotti's
company. However, if every record company was able, by some miracle, to
market the exact same Pavarotti recording, that would be a truly free market
and you would see the price plummet to around $7 or $8 per disc. Now I'm
not advocating such a miracle, but to claim that competition by price alone
will cause the profit margins of CDs to be minimized just isn't realistic.

Bill



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel)
Subject: Re: Need opinion on Beethoven's FIDELIO
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 15:36:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.015031.26754@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.) writes...

>As it is with most 19 century operas I say go with Solti!! I think mine
>is superb

It is great, but if you can get your hands on the Klemperer/Vickers
recording, it's a classic.

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Beatles and the canon
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:52:06 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.150326.14832@Princeton.EDU> roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

   In article <1992Oct16.025739.12547@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
   >In article <1992Oct15.182055.7893@Princeton.EDU> roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
   >
   >[....]
   >   much like an original: consider the Bud Light commercial with a song called
   >   "Wild Thing."  Now, that's *not* the 60's song by Question Mark and the
   >   Mysterians; in fact, it's a recomposition that includes bits of that 
   >
   >Nor the 60s song by The Troggs? :-)

   Of *course* it's the Troggs.  I was thinking of "99 Tears" (which Nena 
   covered so nicely later on, right?  8-) )

Another joke, right dad?

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
From: fsi@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (furrokh.s.irani)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: intro to opera
Keywords: opera, neophyte
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:21:56 GMT
Organization: AT&T


I need advice and I was wondering if anyone on the net would like
to share their thoughts/experiences. I am going out with a woman who
is not very interested in classical music and can't stand opera. I love
opera and classical music. So, how do I introduce opera to her? She
will probably give me one chance and attend an opera with me. I don't
want to blow it and go to the wrong one. I thought Magic Flute,
Bartered Bride and Madama Butterfly are good introductory works. Both
from the story and music angle. But then this is after many years of
listening to opera. Would Gilbert and Sullivan be preferrable? Any
thoughts? Was anyone in the same predicament? You can respond to me or
the net.

Thanks.

Furrokh S. Irani
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bach Cello Suites on Period Instrument: Rec. Wanted
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:29:45
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Oct9.084953.15141@cheshire.oxy.edu>
	<92283.115402CSVBMD@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: 's message of Friday, 9 Oct 1992 11:54:02 EDT

In article <92283.115402CSVBMD@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> <CSVBMD@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:

   Someone mentioned the fact that players seem to take a lot of liberty
   in performing the Bach Suites for solo cello. What makes these pieces
   difficult is that Bach simply wrote the notes in the manuscript without
   any markings (regarding tempo, dynamics, etc.) The performer must rely
   upon his/her imagination and education (regarding styles of the period)
   to determine how to correctly play these. These Suites were actually
   ignored for a couple of hundred years ; Casals didn't actually rediscover
   them but he was the first to perform them. Finding an "authentic"
   recording of these pieces would be in my opinion very difficult.

One thing that I find disturbing about both sets I have (Starker on
Mercury, and Milton Thomas (viola)) is the extremely loose tempos used
(the long notes, and the first notes in groups, are often held
practically double their time value).  This sounds very different from
other Bach music that I'm familiar with (e. g. the Brandenburg
concerti).  Is this the norm in performance?  If so, why?  Or is the
"tight" rhythm used in the Brandenburgs an aberration for Bach?
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
From: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Date: 15 Oct 92 04:14:05 GMT
 <1992Oct13.132901.24677@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> 
 <1992Oct14.090306.18345@lloyd.Camex.COM>  
 <1biiccINNcam@calvin.usc.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1biiccINNcam@calvin.usc.edu>
alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves) writes:

> (resisting the urge to say something inflammatory about Verdi...:-)

You better because Verdi would kick the pants of any of these
"composers" talk about paying dues. Verdi wrote over twenty operas and
had a career spanning 60 years. He was rejected from the conservatory
at 18 and had to be funded while he took on a private tutor. His wife
and two children died when he was composing one of his operas but he
still continued. Each of his operas was better than the other and the
slow steady progression led to works like Aida, Otello and Falstaff.
Can you say that The Voyage is Glass' definitive opera to date? 

You may have an urge sir. But you have no basis.
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: AMS in Pittsburgh
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:50:44 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <Bw12tB.B16@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>Just a general question to readers of rec.music.classical:  Will any of
>you be attending the American Musicological Society meeting in
>Pittsburgh in early November?  I already know of one other r.m.c devotee
>who'll be there, as I will.  Anybody else?  Just so I have my eyes open
>for familiar names and the unfamiliar faces they're attached to....

I plan to be there.  BTW, the American Handel Society meeting is at the
end of this month, in conjunction (as usual) with the Maryland Handel
Festival.  The big oratorio this year is _Hercules_, which is well
worth the trip, I'm sure.  I'll be giving a short talk at the meeting.  

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: murray@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Thomas Murray)
Subject: Bach's sixth cello suite.  What happened?
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences, Evanston, IL
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 15:48:27 GMT

Speaking of Bach's cello suites, I've been doing some fairly intense
listening lately.  The sixth suite (D major) really stands out. The
movements, especially the Prelude and Allemande have gotten much
longer than previous suites (with the exception of the Prelude of the
fifth suite in C minor), much more dramatically intense, and the range
just exploded.  The Prelude goes up to a high E (I believe)!!  And it
stays up there much of the time, before suddenly plunging down to the
depths. 

What happened?  Was Bach just maturing?  Did something traumatic
happen about this time?  

Any musicologists or historians out there...

-tom murray
From: eijkhout@cupid.cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Music Club (Mail Order) Recommendations Sought
Date: 12 Oct 92 14:24:08 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville - Department of Computer Science
Distribution: world
Reply-To: eijkhout@cupid.cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout)
NNTP-Posting-Host: cupid.cs.utk.edu
Keywords: Music Club, Mail Order

In article <1aqbv1INN2u2@agate.berkeley.edu>, newton@garnet.berkeley.edu (Isaac Newton) writes:
|> Hello,
|> 
|> I'm looking to join a music club.  If you have a recommendation
|> for one, I would love to know about it.  My main criteria is
|> selection, especially operas.

Selection? Hm.

BMG classical music has a mediocre selection, but they have *many*
special offers. Just about every other catalogue is everything half
price, and I just ordered three cds from the latest catalogue
which was on the principle of buy one (@ $15.98) get two free.
They do include s&h at not particularly low rates, but still.

|> Newton

Victor.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: EMI price increase
From: <MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Friday, 9 Oct 1992 13:59:47 EDT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

My local classical CD supplier said that he has been informed from EMI that
they plan to increase their per CD prices by $2.  That takes some nerve in
this day of dropping costs of CD production.
 
They must think they have the artists to demand the higher prices from
consumers.....you know, artists like Nigel Kennedy and Paul McCartney.
Geez.
 
Mike Hughes
From: pkbockus@gsbphd.uchicago.edu (Keith Bockus)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: EMI price increase
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:21:59 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:

>ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung) wrote:
>> No doubt others know this better than I, but CD prices in England, for
>> example, seemed to me pretty much in line with the rough 1 pound = 1 dollar
>> standard of other similar items (books, movies etc).  The tax system is the
>> culprit, I think.

>Since there are sales taxes on books in some US states, and none in the UK
>or most other European countries, try another explanation.

No problem.  McKinsey (the management consulting firm) just released
a comparative study of service-sector productivity around the world.
US retailers are far more efficient than anyone else; US retailers
are twice as productive as the Japanese and have a considerable lead
over the British.  It may not explain all of the difference in price,
but it explains a sizable fraction of it.

Keith Bockus
 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical