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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 08:15:53 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2915
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2915

                        Wednesday, September 02, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 706

                             Re: "blind loyalty"
                       Re: comments from syntha-voice
                              Lavender Braille
                                 Vocal eyes
                           Tinytalk 1.20 is here!
                             Ham Radio Operators
                       Re: comments from syntha-voice
                          Re: Braille N Speak Compl
                            Teaching Math to the
                                   Spanish


                                ******


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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
                              (203) 337-1518



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Subject: Re: "blind loyalty"
From: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Jamal Mazrui)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:101/460.0 - VI/BUG, Holbrook MA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Mike!  It is precisely because of my involvement in the NFB that I
explained the affiliate action committee the way I did.  Intellegence
for Jernigan is not its only purpose.  I have said that ofen
individuals play the role of a "friendly neighborhood policeman,"
solving logistical problems, etc.  However, I think their highest
calling is their political role.  It may not arise ofen for any given
individual, but they were selected for their skill and loyalty in
handling such matters.  It is no accident that Homer Page, an
undoubtedly skilled politician with mainstream elected positions to
prove it, serves as the head of this team.  When Jernigan tells people
as part of their assignment to "tell me what I need to know," there is
little doubt that this includes information about individuals or
associations of individuals that may in the short or longer tem
interfere with things "running smoothly" according to his preferences.
Talk of a resolution or candidate for office that might cause
"disruption" or a "lack of unity" on the convention floor are examples
of things not "running smoothly."

As an example of Homer Page's clearly political role, he requested a
meeting with me as soon as I arrived at the New Orleans convention.  He
must have directed his committee to be looking for me because the call
came to my roon not more than ten minutes after I had checked into the
hotel on a Saturday evening.  We met for breakfast the enxt morning,
ostensibly so he could "assume me that I would not be physically
harassed at the convention."  On one level this was a nice assurance
from the NFB leadership that the issue of my case would not result in
possible attacks to my physical integrity.  On another level, however, I
could discern another purpose to his meeting with me early on--to find
out whatever he could about my campaign plans during the convention.  a
45 minute breakfast would not have been necessary simply to deliver a
statement of physical safety.  I told him that I was glad for this
assurance (since I have heard of former expellees being jeered and
almost assaulted at a previous convention), but I was more concerned
about an assurance that my case would in fact be considered by the
convention according to constitutional procedure.  He said that he
couldn't say anything about that either way.

On the subject of the "Blind Loyalty" article, some of the quotes made
by non-NFB people were simply opinions by people with long experience
with Jernigan.  They were not necessarily statements of fact that could
be researched.  For example, I was quoted as describing him as an
inspirinus who felt he was playing a historical role that others
sometimes could not fathom, and therefore had to be weeded out.  This
is clearly an opinion not a statement of fact because of the subjective
words involved, including "inspiring," "genius," etc.  Cuningham did,
however, request documentation from me about my expulsion, which I
provided her at length.  The article also indicates she did
considerable research about what happened in Iowa, as evidenced by the
amount of detail, pats of which were new information to people I know
who have been in the organization for a long time.

By the way, do you think your journalism standards are met by such
articles in the Braille Monitor as the pieces about Grant Mack, Al
Jenkins, and Telesensory?

Jamal

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460.0!Jamal.Mazrui
Internet: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: comments from syntha-voice
From: Jeff.Dubois@p666.f266.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Dubois)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:163/266.666 - Vision, Ottawa ON


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I just read a note that Syntha-Voice is looking into a feed for this
echo. Thanks Gawds.  Paul must be run ragged in his intermediary role,
flinging mail from Ottawa, to Calgary, to Hamilton, to Calgary, then
back to Ottawa.

Frankly, I am getting concerned that this system represents Syntha-

Voice products.
Unequivocally, this is not the case.
I happen to use their POWERAMA, because it is what works best for
me.  If I find another product by a different manufacturer, I'll drop
this one like a dead mackeral, not because of the company, but because
I found a better product.
I can't speak for SLIMWARE 2.11, but I did use SLIMWARE 1.00 before
POWERAMA, and it was a piece of trash.  Yes, trash!  This comment
has gotten me into conflict with Syntha-Voice, both then and now.
Fortunately, they do not sell this version anymore, and I have heard
good comments about their new version.

I think I'm being really fair on this issue.

If someone has legitimate complaints about a company, I'm all ears.
If there comments are based solely on conjecture or hear say, I have
objection.
Verbosity rears it's ugly head once again, but someone in here mentioned
an important note on this subject.  It's much easier to get a bad
reputation than a good reputation.

If someone waited an excessive amount of time for a product they ordered
and paid for, then, damns right, Syntha-Voice deserves their lumps.
 If someone criticizes a product, that they have never before heard

of, but base their opinion on third hand information, I too get offended.

My objections would not be limited to Syntha-Voice.
Fair is fair.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!266.666!Jeff.Dubois
Internet: Jeff.Dubois@p666.f266.n163.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Lavender Braille
From: Steve.Holmes@p16.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Holmes)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:114/15.16 - St Joes Hospital, Phoenix AZ


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

On <Aug 07 17:29>, Cheryl Traub of 1:250/401 wrote:

 {CT> Hi Warren.  Well, I was around in the 60's, but I can't remember
 {CT> seeing a lavender braille writer before.  What's the difference
 {CT> between a lavender braille writer and a Perkins braille writer?
 {CT> Is there a big difference.

Yes, I saw one, it was kinda interesting.  It was rather flimsy
looking and the paper would roll through from the lower slot up to
the top sort of like a typewriter.  If I remember right, I thought
the keys were a little stif but it was a fun kind of old machine.

Here's another brailler for size, how bout a Hall Brailler? There's
a rellik to remember.

<Steve>
 {CT> -!- GEcho 1.00/beta

--
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Subject: Vocal eyes
From: Steve.Holmes@p16.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Holmes)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:114/15.16 - St Joes Hospital, Phoenix AZ


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

On <Aug 07 12:19>, Tandy Way of 1:377/6 wrote:

 {TW> rick installed the new vocal eyes on the bbs machine. even with
 {TW> autoloading off and voice off it has a bad habbit of starting to
 {TW> say line feed line feed line feed and I don't know how to shut
 {TW> that up.

You need to have the base SET file set with the current window as
neutral or silent.  and also make sure that the speaking level for
screen does not include line feeds.  At least, I never have mine
speak "linefeed".  But the important thing is to have the default
SET file for running the BBS not to automatically speak anything.

<Steve>
 {TW> Tandy

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Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!114!15.16!Steve.Holmes
Internet: Steve.Holmes@p16.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Tinytalk 1.20 is here!
From: Steve.Holmes@p16.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Holmes)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:114/15.16 - St Joes Hospital, Phoenix AZ


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

How does TineyTalk work with emmulation programs such as Irma and
the like? I mean those dogs who like to "take over" your keyboard
and steel interrupt 9?

<Steve>

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!114!15.16!Steve.Holmes
Internet: Steve.Holmes@p16.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Ham Radio Operators
From: Jeff..Hawkinson@f299.n115.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Hawkinson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:115/299 - Eye Resources Netwo, Des Plaines IL


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I am wondering if there are any ham radio operators out here on
this bulletin board.
If there are any, I would like to get the share ideas on radio
communications.
So drop me a line or two and let me know you are out there. By
looking as some of the posted names, I recognized several names.
I hope to hear from some hams very shortly.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!115!299!Jeff..Hawkinson
Internet: Jeff..Hawkinson@f299.n115.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: comments from syntha-voice
From: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2610/12 - Post Road Inn, Greensburg PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 JD> Hi David,
 >         Another suggestion would be to make yourself available
 > for questins through BlinkTalk.
 JD> I made the very same suggestion to Syntha-Voice.
 JD> I am just a user of their product.  They have been
 JD> reasonable with me, and as a result have my business.
 JD>  If I find another product that can provide me with
 JD> better capabilities in large print and synthesis than
 JD> POWERAMA, I'll drop this company like a dead mackeral.
 JD>
 JD> Bottom line is, the consumer is right, er, um, I mean blind.
 JD> Yup, you're right on this one though, let's get them
 JD> Syntha-Voice folks on this echo.

I'm concerned about their treatment in this echo.  We have seen in
the past where tactless and incompetence have driven users away.
What was their problem? They worked for an adaptive equipment
company and were thrown lots of stuff on its products.  If someone
wants to use this echo as a resource, they should be able to do
that without the crap.  If I ever had a job with Henter-Joyce I
wouldn't field questions unless it was part of the job description
and I got paid for it.  I come here to relax and talk with
friends.

 JD> --- Opus-CBCS 1.14
 JD>  * Origin: Vision BBS - Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. (1:163/266.666)

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2610!12!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Braille N Speak Compl
From: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

GP>> should knock the Audaptor,MultiVoice, and Accent,

 KB> There you go again.  Is there a $50.00 synthesizer out there
 KB> available to the general public?  There's no justification
 KB> whatsoever in trying to bring other adaptive products in to
 KB> this discussion unless they have a comparitively priced
 KB> counterpart.

Keith,
    Let me get this right....It is ok to compare the price of a notebook
computer with an already owned speech program and the cheapest
synthesizer one can find with a Braille 'n Speak, ignoring the quite
profound differences in the devices, but it isn't ok to bring up the
price of other external synthesizers in the argument.  Are you
kidding???

     Keith, the Braille 'n Speak has almost as much in common with an
Accent as it does a notebook computer, and I along with most people here
I'm willing to bet think the comparison is most valid!  First of all,
both the BNS and the Accent can be used as a synthesizer for a PC, and
are of comparible sizes and weights.  This alone makes it a better
comparison than you're overstated notebook/BNS dialog!  Secondly, both
are battery operated devices with a longer life expectancy than any
notebook computer, and although the speech is of course better with the
Accent to most ears, I think the battery life is better with the Braille
'n Speak, at least based upon my experience with an Accent SA whose
battery has failed several times at most unopportune moments.
     So then, even allowing you the benefit of the price of the 640k BNS
rather than the classic in our comparison, we're talking a couple of
hundred bucks gets you not only a synthesizer, the only thing you get
with an Accent, it gets you a notetaker, a device you can attach to a
modem and communicate with bulletin boards, a device you can now use to
transfer both text and binary files, a device you can input to in grade
two braille and then send directly to a braille printer or do a back
translate on and send to ASCII, etc.

     I'm sorry Keith, but again, your logic here totally escapes me!  A
price comparison between a BNS and a notebook computer seems quite
proper and valid to you, but comparing it to another device whose whole
market is blind people ISN'T valid???

Strange, very strange!

                                        Willie

... BlinkTalk - the Electronic Voice of the Blind!

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Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Teaching Math to the
From: Steve.Matzura@f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Matzura)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2603/203 - The Shop Mail Only, Flushing NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 >  DM> all my calculus books transcribed into
 >  DM> Braille Nemeth code, even
 >  DM> though most of the books were
 >  DM> available on tape.  (Have you ever
 >  DM> listened to a tape recording of a trig
 >  DM> table?!)  Braille affords

 > Listening to a topology text on tape is by far worse! <grin>

I started having these kinds of trouble from the word GO with
Thompson's calculus text in 12th grade, and no matter how hard I
tried, the tapes, good as they were, just didn't work for me.  I
had a Welsh calc teacher in high school who'd never dealt with a
blind person before, but without losing all sense of directrix (ha)
he was able to make really good graphs for me when I needed them.
Sometimes I even tried drawing them myself freehand with an AFB
RLDK just to see how close I came in understanding what was really
going on.

 > also paid to have books transcribed; I still have them all, including

...  If you have the original Thompson's, would you be willing to
part with it?  I'd give a lot to re-study that old stuff in
Braille, and I'd probably even go as far as to pick up a print copy
and follow along with the taped version with my Optacon looking at
the examples and graphs, but oh, the luxury of having that stuff in
Braille ... wow.

 > I agree completely with all your other comments; I believe good
 > Braille
 > skills to be almost (not quite but almost) a prerequisite to really
 > do
 > well in advanced math.

I'd even go so far as to say, to do well in math of any kind, good
Braille skills are in fact a must, whether you actually use the
Braille code or start out with a Taylor slate or an abacus,
whatever, those tactile recognition skills have got to be there for
you, or by the time you get to plane (let's not even talk about
non-Euclidean) geometry the concept of representing
three-dimensional figures in a two-dimensional medium will go right
over your head!

 > irritates me when those who advise the blind discourage them from
 > trying
 > math and the sciences.

Agreemsg.

 > Fellow BlinkTalkers, be sure to save Mr. Martin's post; it's the
 > sanest
 > thing I've seen here yet on this subject (as I said).

I'm sorry I missed the original--it fell off the edge of the
message base without my viewing it.

 Italy could never win a war. We are too sensitive.
 -Benito Mussolini

... Via FrontDoor 2.02/NC

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2603!203!Steve.Matzura
Internet: Steve.Matzura@f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Spanish
From: Steve.Matzura@f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Matzura)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2603/203 - The Shop Mail Only, Flushing NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 > You asked about Spanish contracted Braille.  Iused to know it
 > reasonably well.

Do you know where I could get a cheat-sheet for the Spanish
contractions, and do you know if there are still any magazines from
South America being produced in Spanish contracted Braille?  I used
to read one years and years ago from Argentina called "Eterna
Sabiduria" just to keep up with my now rusted-out Spanish
contracted-Braille skills.

 If a farmer fills his barn with grain, he gets mice; if he
 leaves it empty, he gets actors.  Bill Vaughan

... Via FrontDoor 2.02/NC

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2603!203!Steve.Matzura
Internet: Steve.Matzura@f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org




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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2915 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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