From: mykes@shell.portal.com (mike myke schwartz)
Subject: Re: Democrat Wars? (was Re: Democrat == Loony Left???)
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush
Organization: Portal Communications Company
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Distribution: usa, world
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 14:52:55 GMT

Loren I. Petrich (lip@s1.gov) wrote:
: In article <ATAYLOR.92Dec16141149@gauss.nmsu.edu> ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) writes:
: >MIn article <liqce2INNctd@spim.mti.sgi.com> mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Mike Polen) writes:
: 
: ><   LBJ's hawkishness is also not a liberal or conservative issue.  I hadn't
: ><   noticed that all wars were started and fought by Republicans.  
: 
: >	Oh, really? Let's look at the record:
: 
: >	DEMOCRAT President Wilson ran for re-election in 1916
: >	on the platform, "He Kept Us Out Of War"; subsequently,	
: >	the U.S. entered WWI.
: 
: >	DEMOCRAT President F.D. Roosevelt did everything possible
: >	to get us involved in WWII.
: 
: >	DEMOCRAT President Truman declared that Korea was not
: >	"in the US sphere of interest", then sent US troops
: >	there after the North Korean invasion. 
: 
: >	DEMOCRAT President Johnson campaigned for President
: >	in 1964 on the platform, "I will never send American
: >	boys to fight on the Asian mainland". Almost immediately
: >	after taking the oath of office, he dispatched thousands
: >	of troops to South Viet Nam (located on the Asian mainland).
: 
: 	The charge of "Democrat Wars" is a staple of Republican
: demagoguery, for those not in the know.
: 

So we get to hear the liberal demagoguery?

: 	If the Democrats are to be somehow held to blame, then does
: that mean that we should have stayed out of _all_ these wars? Even if
: it meant letting the Germans win WWI, the Germans and the Japanese win
: WWII, the North Koreans win the Korean War, and the North Vietnamese
: win the Vietnam War?
: 

If the Germans and Japanese lost World War II, why are they the #2 and #3
world powers today?  If the North Koreans lost the Korean war, why do
they still have half the country?  If the North Vietnamese lost the vietnam
war, why do they control the entire nation?  If the Germans lost WWI, how
were they in position two decades later to conquer and control most of
Europe?

The Republican Demagoguery is that a strong American military posture
allows us to take out a Hitler or Saddaam before it escalates to a World
War (for what it's worth, the Gulf War WAS WWIII, IMO).

: 	Just about every Republican since WWII has considered these
: wars to be worthy causes, indeed very noble ones. Just consider Nixon
: on continuing the Vietnam War before he decided on the "declare
: victory and quit" solution of "Vietnamization". And consider what
: Reagan thought of the war. He didn't say how awful it was of the
: Democrats to get us involved in it. He called it a "noble cause", as
: if that was somehow irrelevant.
: 

Some of us believe that FDR and Truman blew it by giving away the store
at the end of WWII making situations like Vietnam and Korea inevitable.
General Patton was inseensed at the end of WWII that we did not finish
the war by defeating the communists in the USSR while we were all geared
up to do it.  Similarly, Schwarzkopf suggested we solve the Iraq situation
by going to Bahgdad...

: 	The only seriously anti-war Republican I've ever heard of in
: recent years was Pat Buchanan about the Gulf War, which he insisted
: was really about protecting Israel more than anything else. He charged
: that only Israel's "Amen Corner" supported it in Congress and that
: soldiers with names like Murphy, McAllister, Gonzalez, and Leroy Brown
: [non-Jewish names] will be doing the fighting. Interestingly, Isaac
: Asimov in his autobiography _In Memory Yet Green_ recalled that some
: of those he worked with in the Philadelphia Navy Yard in WWII seemed
: to think that WWII had been fought to "save the Jews" and that our
: involvement was somehow contrived by FDR and his Jewish friends.

As I wrote in an earlier article tonight, Barry Goldwater, who ran against
LBJ in 1964, wanted to Nuke north vietnam and get the damn war over in a
hurry so we could have some peace...

: Something like:
: 
: 	Roosevelt & Co. decode some messages describing Japanese plans
: for attacking Pearl Harbor. They decide to let them do it just to
: outrage the public enough to support them.
: 

Iran-contra pales in comparison, doesn't it? :)

: -- 
: /Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster
: /lip@s1.gov
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush