HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: Rule Change for 1993: Lapped riders not eligible for primes
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:54:33 GMT

Kurt Sauer said:
   Kathy Volski tells me that rule 3D5, Primes, has been modified such that
   lapped riders will no longer be eligible for primes.

Willard Dawson responds:
   Of any sort?  This is too much.  I don't like over-regulation, and I believe
   this falls into that category.  Why not leave this up the race organizer's
   discretion?  What is the reasoning behind this ruling?

I agree that this is a bad rule.  There was a problem that needed to
be addressed, but this was the wrong solution.  If you get a group of,
say, a dozen riders that laps the field it will be almost impossible
for race officials to pick prime winners without a finish camera.

There *is* an ambiguity in the current rules that has been causing
problems and that needed to be addressed, as follows.  If lapped
riders are to be eligible for primes, when do they become eligible?
The normal definition of "lapped" in criteriums is "passed by the lead
rider," but if that interpretation is used and if the lead rider is off
the front and primes go to multiple places, as they often do in
collegiate races, the lapped rider may win primes without having
properly earned them.

Both Casey Kerrigan and I had proposed solutions to this problem.
Casey's proposal (Item B43a on the Board agenda) imported the "field"
definition from points race rules and required that a rider be caught
by the field before becoming eligible for primes, while my proposal
(Item B43b) required only that the rider be caught before the sprint
lap by at least as many riders as are eligible for primes.  Either of
these proposals would have solved the problem in a reasonable way, but
the Board apparently failed to understand the issues and thrashed
around until they came up with the cited bad solution.

This is another unfortunate example of rule-making by people who don't
understand the rules and how they work.

In another part of the agenda we had proposed that a Racing Rules
Committee be created and consist of a small number officials, riders,
and organizers who know the rules and are interested in reviewing and
making recommendations on new proposals with the expectation that the
Board would generally follow their advice.  Unfortunately, that
proposal was also shot down by the Board.

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: 1993 USCF calendar
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:28:42 GMT

Here is the USCF calendar for 1993, including both championship and
bureaucratic events.

Jan. 9-11	USCF Board of Directors meeting		Colorado Springs, CO
May 22-23	NCCA Road National Championships	Boston, MA
TBD		NCCA Track Nationals			TBD
June 11-18	USCF Senior Road Championships		Columbus, OH
June 22-26	USCF Senior Track Championships		Indianapolis, IN
July 13-17	USCF Masters Track Championships	Colorado Springs, CO
July 19-26	USCF Masters Road Championships		St. Louis, MO
July 28-Aug. 1	Olympic Festival (cycling events)	San Antonio, TX
Aug. 16-22	USCF Junior Road Championships		Bear Mtn., NY
Aug. 24-28	USCF Junior Track Championships		Trexlertown, PA
Aug. 17-22	World Senior Track Championships	Hamar, Norway
Aug. 25-29	World Senior Road Championships		Oslo, Norway
Sep. 13-19	World Mountain Bike Championships	Merbach, France
Sep. 17-22	Interbike Show				Las Vegas, NV
Sep. 23-26	USCF Annual Meeting			TBD
Sep. 26-Oct. 4	World Junior Road Championships		Australia
Sep. 28-Oct. 10	World Junior Track Championships	Perth, Australia

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: no Alpe d'Huez on 93 Tour!!!
Date: 10 Oct 92 06:42:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Oct9.154013.15236@msc.cornell.edu> tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402) writes:
>As long as there are TT's worthy of the Tour (not necessarily 65 km long, btw)
>I doubt very much that the pure climbers, the Hampstens, Millars, and 
>Claveyrolats, have much of a chance of winning the whole thing.

Hampsten and Chiapucci both proved beyond a doubt this year that they
_aren't_ just climbers. They both finished well if not outstandingly
in the ITT's. If these TT's were shorter there is every reason to
believe that these two would be competitive. In the last ITT Hampsten
was doing very well for the frst half and dropped only slightly
for the rest of the ride.
From: jaslow@bissun.kodak.com (Russell Jaslow)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: An indepth look into ultra-marathon cyclist, Dennis DeLong.
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:46:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Oct13.194621.24224
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Originator: jaslow@bissun

Have you ever wondered what it was like to participate in a 3000 mile
bicycle race?  Or wanted to peek into the secret training diary of someone
crazy enough to race 3,000 miles?  Pondered what a person thinks about or
even fantasizes about (PG, R, and even X rated) after he has ridden
without sleep for days?  Wondered about how much pain and suffering the
human body can take?  (You'd be amazed!!)  Wanted to attempt something
like this but wasn't sure if you had what it takes?  Or just plain WHY?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, then follow 1992 Midwest
Qualifier winner Dennis DeLong through his newsletter as he prepares to
compete in the 1993 Race Across AMerica (RAAM).  To help finance this 
grueling event, Dennis is publishing a newsletter that will detail his
training, fund raising efforts, inner thinking, and all the current
news as he receives it from RAAM headquarters.

There will be five (5) issues to be sent out in February, April, June,
July, and then a follow-up edition after the race.  A $20 donation will
help get Dennis to the starting line next summer.

If you wish to help Dennis DeLong in his quest to win RAAM '93, please
send your $20 donation to:
                     
                    Dennis DeLong
                    370 McCall Road
                    Rochester, NY  14616

Don't miss out on this opportunity to find out first hand the effort,
dedication, pain, and joy of preparing to meet the challange of perhaps
the toughest endurance event in the world.

[Note -- I'm posting this for Dennis.  You may email me any questions,
and I will get them to Dennis.]
-- 
Russell Jaslow         |Spec Racer #33 Finger Lakes Reg|NY RANGERS|My employer
Eastman Kodak Company  |In memorium: Andrew Spiller,   |and the   |has nothing
Rochester, New York    |Cynthia Bishop Halstead.  Keep |Cup!  Why |to do with
jaslow@bissun.kodak.com|the damn drunks off our roads! |not dream?|my drivel.
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Rule Change for 1993: Lapped riders not eligible for primes
Date: 12 Oct 1992 17:45:12 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <m4sesB1w165w@willard.UUCP> dawson@willard.UUCP writes:
>ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer) writes:
>
>> F.Y.I.:
>> Kathy Volski tells me that rule 3D5, Primes, has been modified such that
>> lapped riders will no longer be eligible for primes.
>
>Of any sort?  This is too much.  I don't like over-regulation, and I believe
>this falls into that category.  Why not leave this up the race organizer's
>discretion?  What is the reasoning behind this ruling?
>

I think this is entirely fair.  Lapped riders should not be allowed to
sprint for primes, I would even like to see them banned from taking
part in anyway(AKA no leadouts).

A few years back at the Coors Classic, in the finale, the North Boulder
Park criterium, the Italians were sitting up and resting before big
prime sprints and then getting in the sprints and winning them, even
though they were many laps down.  This, IMHO, is very unfair to the riders
that are on the lead lap.

Les Earnest can add his view of these events.

Anyway, it is best to be dedicated and train hard and not find yourself
as a lapped rider, that will definetly solve the problem.

Bruce

ps - note, that this differs from a points race where lapped riders may
sprint for points(because they are a lap down, they are not "leading").
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: garyb@gcm.com (Gary Blumenstein)
Subject: 1992 Hitachi Tour of Sleepy Hollow (results)
Organization: Greenwich Capital Markets, Inc.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:19:53 GMT


Hitachi's second annual Tour of Sleepy Hollow was no sleeper.  A fast,
technical some would say scary course challenged a quality Pro 1,2 field on
Sept. 20th in this quaint New York City suburb, famous for it's Holloween
tale, "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow."  Spectators were treated to spectacular
views of the Hudson river as the series of races went off on a well planned
schedule thanks to Race Director, John Whalen.  In between the featured USCF
events, Hitachi of America hosted a benefit citizens race to raise money 
for Lymes Disease research.

  Results of the Professional / Category 1,2 race:

1   Frank McCormack	IME/Continental Airlines	Ma
2   John Loehner	Saturn				Richmond Hill, NY
3   Jerzy Wozniak	Team Finals			Warwick, NY
4   George Hincapie	GS Mengoni			Farmingdale, NY
5   Mark McCormack	IME/Continental Airlines	
6   Radice Cubric	GS Mengoni			Yugoslavia
7   Graem Miller	Scott-Bikyle Flyers		New Zealand
8   Jan Piper		Team Finals			Denmark
9   Paul McCormack	IME/Continental Airlines	Ireland
10  Joen Seaman		Federal Express			Danbury, CT
11  Mark Gullickson	Hitachi/Sleepy Hollow		New Palz, NY
12  Brian Dykes		V.C. Baltimore			Lorton, VA
13  Ken Anderson	Team Finals			Baltimore, MD
14  Rod Myers		Bucks County Racing		New Cumberland, PA
15  Fred Rodriquez	Spago				CA
16  Brian White		One Wheel Velo			Merrimack, NH
17  Ryan Oelkers	GS Mengoni			Ramsey, NJ
18  John Durso		Team ?				Brooklyn, NY
19  Brian Hanson	CT Yankee Bike Club		Falls Village, CT
20  Sean Nealy		Kissena Cycling Club		Pittsfield, MA


Women's Race:

1   Karen Mackin	OTR				Cohoes, NY
2   Mary Moule		Brueggers Bagels		Lawenceville, NY
3   Elizabeth Emery	CRCA				New York, NY
4   Catherine Chatham	CRCA				New York, NY
5   Laura Van Gilder	Brueggers Bagels		Pocano Pines, PA
6   Alisia Duffy	Club Kome			Meadow Park, CA
7   Suzanne Timmerman	Kissena Cycling Club		Ossining, NY
8   Tania Duff		Club P.B.C.			Auckland, New Zealand
9   Stefanie Jackentual CRCA				New York, NY
10  Leah Whalen		Hitachi/Sleepy Hollow		North Tarrytown, NY

Note:  Next year the course will most likely be expanded to include 
an even more difficult climb up the historic Main Street.
-- 
Gary Blumenstein                          |   garyb@gcm.com        Internet
Unix Systems Administrator                |   uunet!gcm!garyb      UUCP
Greenwich Capital Markets                 |  +1(203) 625-7937      Voice 
600 Steamboat Road, Greenwich, CT  06830  |  +1(203) 629-9136      FAX
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: What to write on a "standard form"
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:56:49 GMT

Naruhisa Takashima writes:
   Hi, the flyer for a race which I want to enter read that I should send a check 
   and a standard form to enter the race. My question is what constitutes a 
   standard form?  What informations do I need to supply the race director?

The "Standard athlete's entry blank and release form" appears on pages
134 & 135 of the USCF Rulebook.  Just make a copy, fill it out, and
send it in with the check.

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
From: dc@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Daniel Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: no Alpe d'Huez on 93 Tour!!!
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:58:27 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <ldbojeINNao6@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:

>There are a number of climbs that are longer(Madeline, Glandon, Criox
>de Fer are all 5000+' feet of climbing compared to L'Alpe at around 3700')
>but few are as steep(L'Alpe averages 9%, the abovementioned climbs are
>7-8%).  So, yes there are longer climbs, but none as steep over any
>significant distance, EXCEPT, my current death climb...the south side
>of Mt. Ventoux which climbs 5500' and has a 9% average over its 17 km
>ascent with 11km of 10%+!!!!!!  This is one really tough climb!  And the
>TdF returns here in 1994!  Holy painfule legs, Batman!

I think that's a rather unfortunate use of "death climb" - wasn't that
the climb on which Tom (?) Simpson collapsed?

Daniel Cohen              Department of Computer Science 
Email: dc@dcs.qmw.ac.uk   Queen Mary and Westfield College
Tel: +44 71 975 5245/4/9  Mile End Road, London E1 4NS, UK
Fax: +44 81 980 6533      ******* Hit the North!!! *******
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov (Leigh Ann Tanner)
Subject: Re: Where are the Camps & Clinics? (was: Re: USCF training camp)
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 00:03:45 GMT
Reply-To: tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov (Leigh Ann Tanner)
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Oct11.043706.9854@tamsun.tamu.edu>, ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer) writes:
|> In his article, john.t.erhardt wrote:
|> >I've heard about the USCF training camps ...
|> 
|> When I joined the USCF, I was given a slick brochure printed by the Federation
|> called "Take the lead" (which I still have) and which has a section titled,
|> "USCF Programs: Development Camps, Clinics, Seinars, and Training Opportuni-
|> ties."
|> 
|> In this section, it says, "Development camps and clinics are conducted at
|> both sites [USOTC in Colorado Springs and Lake Pacid, NY] for first and
|> second year riders with emphasis placed on skills development." 
|> 
|> My question is, why haven't I heard of any of these camps or clinics?  They

They are advertised!  Cycling USA usually talks about them as well
as VeloNews.

And they are "development" camps.  They are usually held later in
the year, perhaps Sept-Nov timeframe and they are for "beginning"
racers.  These are different from the camps that are held around
the first of the year which are for more of the "elite" riders.


The development camps are definitely worthwhile;  you learn how
you "really" should be training as well as some helpful hints
on how to race.

Leigh Ann
tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov
 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer)
Subject: Racing Rules Committee (was: Re: Rule Change for 1993: Lapped ...)
Organization: A&M Cycling Team, Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
	<m4sesB1w165w@willard.UUCP>
	<1992Oct10.195433.13642@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 04:46:15 GMT

Les said:
>In another part of the agenda we had proposed that a Racing Rules
>Committee be created and consist of a small number officials, riders,
>and organizers who know the rules and are interested in reviewing and
>making recommendations on new proposals with the expectation that the
>Board would generally follow their advice.  Unfortunately, that
>proposal was also shot down by the Board.

It appears to this observer that this inability to make sound (IMHO) decisions
regarding racing rules has a long history in USCF.

Does anyone besides me agree that having a committee like the one suggested
by Les' comments would be a good and progressive movement for the Federation?
It would not in any way cause the Board to intrude into the inner workings
of the staff (a recent taboo); instead, it would give the Federation some
needed input by those of us who make up the Federation's membership (and who
*race*).

I do not intend this thread to be a beat-up session on past decisions of the
Board.  I do, however, want to hear from others about whether there might
be some reasonable way for officials and racing members to have their voice
heard, especially since the trend will be to have more issues (upgrading, for
example) dealt with by the staff and not by the Board.

Off soapbox.
--
Kurt F. Sauer
College Station, Texas

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tthiel@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Summary of changes in USCF regulations
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:16:48 GMT

les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:

>Here is a summary of significant changes in USCF regulations adopted
>by the Board of Directors on September 27, given in agenda order.
>All changes take effect January 1, 1993.  If anyone is interested in
>the outcome of an item that is not listed, please let me know.
>Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
>Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
>UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022

Blah, blah, blah.  What has the USCF done to increase the enjoyment of our
sport?  When are they going to get beyond their emphasis on bureacratic
management of a handful of people.  What a bunch of weenies.
-Terry
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: pat@wrs.com (Patrick Boylan)
Subject: Re: Where are the Camps & Clinics? (was: Re: USCF training camp)
Organization: Wind River Systems, Alameda CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:39:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.043706.9854@tamsun.tamu.edu>, ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer) writes:
|> In his article, john.t.erhardt wrote:
|> >I've heard about the USCF training camps ...
|> 
|> When I joined the USCF, I was given a slick brochure printed by the Federation
|> called "Take the lead" (which I still have) and which has a section titled,
|> "USCF Programs: Development Camps, Clinics, Seinars, and Training Opportuni-
|> ties."
|> 
|> In this section, it says, "Development camps and clinics are conducted at
|> both sites [USOTC in Colorado Springs and Lake Pacid, NY] for first and
|> second year riders with emphasis placed on skills development." 
|> 
|> My question is, why haven't I heard of any of these camps or clinics?  They
|> are *not* talking about the Bicycling clinics (these are referred to later
|> on in the pamphlet).  I'm no national team rider, but I could benefit from a
|> camp for second year racers.  Did I miss the advertisement for it?  (I relig-
|> iously read Cycling USA and Velo-News; it wasn't there.)  All of the OTC de-
|> velopment programs I've seen are for "1's, 2's, and, if space permits, some
|> selected 3's."  That doesn't sound like it's targeted for first and second
|> year riders unless you're Lance Armstrong...
|> 
|> Anyone else know what the deal is?  I think someone might have put it in the
|> pamphlet but forgot to develop the program to make the claim true...
|> --
|> Kurt F. Sauer
|> College Station, Texas
|> 

The development camps are held every spring and fall.  They are announced in 
Cycling USA every year.  There are separate camps for Juniors, Women, Men, 
possibly even Masters.  In addition to Colorado Springs, there are camps in 
Lake Placid, somewhere in the mid-west (Wisconsin or Minnesota), and probably 
soon San Diego.

Call the USCF to find out about the camps.  At this point they will probably 
tell you to call back early next year since they have not been scheduled 
for 1993 yet.

I attended a spring camp in Lake Placid about 2 years ago.  It was 
great, and about the best deal you could ever get.

For $50 you get lodging in the training center, as much food as you can burn,
training rides, weight training, practice races, seminars, OTC credentials 
which get you into almost anything at the training center, etc., etc.

If there was a gap in the announcements, it may have been because Dan Birkholtz,
who was in charge of these development camps, died in a helicopter crash about 
two years ago.  

Someone had to pick up from where he left off with no warning.  Incidently, I 
think he was doing a great job.  Attend one of these camps and you'll agree. 
You'll also see where some of your USCF money goes.

Caution: These camps fill up REALLY fast.

- Patrick
-- 
 Patrick Boylan, Consulting Engineer, FAE Asia/Pacific
 Wind River Systems
 1010 Atlantic Ave. Alameda, CA  94501
 email: pat@wrs.com   tel: (510)748-4100   fax: (510)814-2010
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ams@watson.ibm.com (Aaron Shtromas)
Subject: Re: no Alpe d'Huez on 93 Tour!!!
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 23:45:29 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center


-- 
In article <ldrli4INNhee@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct15.015728.14946@slc.com> marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:
|> >Bruce Hildenbrand (bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM) writes:
|> >
|> >> For those of you into gearing, Andy said he rode a 39x23...
|> >
|> >Did Andy have anything repeatable to say about LeMond's performance?
|> 
|> Yes.  If you remember in the 1991 Tour de France(TIOOYK), LeMond only
|> lost 20 seconds to Indurain in the first time trial, in 1992, he
|> lost 4 minutes.
|> 
|> Andy said that LeMond looked very concerned the day after the 1st
|> time trial and that his morale really suffered from then on.
|> 
|> Bruce's thought: most likely LeMond realized that he was not going
|> to be able to win the TdF and his already shakey mental outlook
|> did him in.  The other people I talked with in Europe seemed to agree
|> that is was LeMond's mental preparation/state that forced him
|> to retire, not a physical problem.
|> 
|> Bruce reiterates another thought: LeMond's performance's in the 1991
|> and 1992 Tours de France in no way diminishes the other incredible
|> performance he has shown in his career(3 wins in both the TdF and
|> the World Championships just to name a few!).
|> 
|> Bruce
|> 

i can remember those - any other big wins?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: mprime@titanium.Berkeley.EDU (Michael B. Prime)
Subject: Re: Huber rides Cheetah at 68.73 mph
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:03:20 GMT

>>>On September 22, Chis Huber rode a faired recumbent bicycle called
>>>Cheetah at a speed of 68.73 mph (110.61 kph) on a flat road in the San
>>>Luis Valley in Colorado at an altitude of 7,600 feet (2316 meters).
>>
>>I was talking to someone (forget who) who seemed to know alot about this
>>record. I was told that the Gold Rush was a two way run while the
>>Chris Huber ride was one way and with too much wind for the record.
>
>Huh?  How could Chris have set the record if there was "too much wind
>for the record"?  Please explain.  He either set the record or he
>didn't, and by all accounts he did.
>
Both records were set on a one way run. At least for the new record the
wind was measured during the test and was legal (a slight crosswind I was
told). There have been rumors about the record that Fred originally set
near Mono Lake, but I have no reason to believe them. These rumors are
unfortunate because they tend to stick around and damage the credibility
of the record. Often they start as, "Wow, he couldn't possibly have gone
68 mph, there must have been a tailwind."

Mike


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing