HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim)
Subject: Re: OH, HELL!   was: Re: BRAVES CLINCH
Organization: Fordham University
Summary: Reds fans: at least we can finish all those chores we've been putting off.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:25:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <BvEoJL.77C@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, 
rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets) writes...
>In article <1992Sep30.134638.8319@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> 
rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes:
>>Two straight NL West titles!
>>
>>Bring the 'rates on!
[celebrating by Braves fan deleted]
>OH, HELL!!
> 
>This was the year that the Reds were the class and the rest were, 
>well, the rest.
> 
>But now I can finally put this miserable season behind me.  
>(Why am I miserable?
>At least I'm not a Dodger fan  :)  )
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Actually, though it probably doesn't make the pill any sweeter for Dodger fans,
>they were out of the race in July, and are numbed to looking at Offerman watch
>a slow roller pass between his legs into left field.
> 
[analysis of Reds' season deleted]
> 
>Wait 'till '95!!
> 
>RStimets
> 
> 
As a Dodger fan, let me say that 1) I am indeed very miserable:  Watching the 
41st error by one player may not be surprising, but it does make me miserable,
and 2) The only consolation I have {about the pennant race} is that Pedro 
Astacio shut out the Reds last night to drive the penultimate nail into their 
coffin.  Now we only need one more win to avoid 100 losses.  

If Astacio keeps up his good work, and R. Martinez returns healthy, 
and P. Martinez turns out well, and Offerman learns to field, and Hansen
learns to hit . . . 
How many days until Spring Training?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Nissim, notorious Dodger fanatic     (nissim@mary.fordham.edu)  
Disclaimer:  "I speak only for myself."   
World Championships:  Brooklyn-----1955   
                      Los Angeles--1959  1963  1965  1981  1988
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tuesday, 29 Sep 1992 14:09:19 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Expos logo
 <1992Sep28.181906.861@mala.bc.ca>
 <1992Sep28.220550.26845@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> <BvCGyv.6qJ@encore.com>

hm.  i read "expos baseball" at most three weeks ago, but i'm not sure
where.  i remember reading it because i had always wondered about "elb",
and this "expos baseball" thing didn't give an explanation for "l".

thanks for the "exposition le beau" thing.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Sheffield is NL MVP
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:49:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.144756.1661@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>
>(through Sept 21)
>Baltimore .342 OBP, .402 SLG, 651 runs
>Detroit   .336 OBP, .407 SLG, 724 runs

So this is supposed to show that 5 points of SLG is worth 70+ more
runs than 5 points of OBP?  Then Toronto (.332/.415) should have
over 800 runs, right?  Even without their running game!

All your example shows is that it is possible to have a good-hitting
team that doesn't score runs.  You simply have to bat your best
sluggers in the #1/#2/#7 spots, and put your worst sluggers #3/#4/#5.

Of course I'm not sure why anybody would want to do this...

ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, 1 point of OBP seems to be worth a bit
more than 1 point of SLG.  Though you can come up with MILLIONS of
examples where some things are not equal.  Like above.

You continually rag on the use of OPS, claiming that it is missing
important factors.  So why don't you come up with anything better?
While it may not be perfect, it is usually pretty good.  And if it's
the best thing we have...

>Not to mention that at least one GM awarded a mutli-year, multi-million $$
>contract to a 28 year-old, injury-prone catcher with a career OPS of ~.670
>(Daulton). Or picked up a 29 year-old journeyman pitcher and decided to hand 
>him the ball every 4th or 5th game (Stewart). Yep, really stupid, those GMs.

Some of them are smarter than others.  The Red Sox have one of the
dumber ones.

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: If the Astros spent some money...
Date: 4 Oct 92 00:03:56 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Oct2.225926.24060@menudo.uh.edu> chee1l5@Jane.UH.EDU writes:
>Does anyone think that a .500 team like the Astros could win it all next year
>if they really strengthened up their main weaknesses (SS and starting 
>pitching) ?

>How about two Texans coming home, Swindell and Drabek, and throw in the Wizard
>at short? I figure this will cost the new owner about 12 million a year, give
>or take.

Would Smith really be an improvement?  Psychologically, maybe, but he'll
be 38 at the beginning of 1993, and he's gotta figure to lose a few points
in BA at the 'Dome.  My guess is that he'd add two wins at most.

Swindell and Drabek?  We'll be generous, give them three wins each.  That's
enough to make the 'Stros contenders if everyone else plays at the same 
level as 1992.  Probably not enough to catch the Braves without a lot of
luck, though.  (Keep in mind that there will be a couple of 70-92 type teams
entering the National League inflating everyone's W-L, including the Astros.)

>Maybe building with youth and finishing the job with a few veterans is the way
>to the World Series (see Braves).  Just piling up a bunch of free agents
>doesn't seem to work (see '92 Mets).

Free agents can work, but they have to be good free agents.  No point
in signing an Eddie Murray when you have a Dave Magadan who can do just
as well.
-- 
           .. . . .  .  .   .    .     .     .    .   .  .  . . . ..
          ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
         the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Morris Season begins Wednesday
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:08:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner kenneth cecil joseph u) writes:

>In article <BvLuws.E1F@cs.dal.ca> niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes:
>>  Now that the Jays have clinched they will turn their eyes to Jack Morris to 
>>duplicate his heroics as he did in last year's playoffs. Although I believe his
>>contribution was minimal to this year's Jays (although he did contribute) the
>>five million dollars is now on the line......this is what Gillick and Beeston
>>and the Jays brass signed him for.
>>
>Ah, here we go again. Are you trying to say that A pitcher who went 21-6 on
>the year had a "minimal contribution"? Geez, how many wins do you need to
>really help your team?

well, i'd say he had SOME contribution, because he went out there and
 pitched so much.  on a PER GAME basis, yes, he had minimal
 contributions.  his era was just a little bit better than average. 

 but because he pitched so many innings, i'd say it was a bit more than
 a minimal contribution.  and for the person who said "maybe morris
 has finally gotten the respect now" - at 37???  funny, superstars
 get the "respect" when they'remuch younger...like 26. like darryl.  jose.
 big bad frank thomas.  clemens.  gooden (a couple years ago).  etc.

actually, if rec.sport.baseball were active, say, 12 years ago, i bet
 the psots would have been "morris under-rated; a better pitcher
 than steve stone".

and how mike norris deserved the cy young instead of steve stone,
 although stone won 25 games.  or how dave steib should have
 gotten it instead of pete vuckovich. (i think that was the guy who
 won it).

- bob gaj
From: larryw@lclark.edu (Larry Westdahl)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Jack is a winner
Date: 27 Sep 92 02:24:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Sep27.022416.20315
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR


I am a Jack Morris fan, and am still in awe of what he did last year in
the World Series.  I would question your philosophy about ERA, though.
The Blue Jays have a strong offense, and a pitcher can get away with a 
bad game now and then on that team.  But a pitcher is not totally 
responsible for his own fate.  Look at Jim Abott of the Angels.  My
guess is that he would be highly regarded today if he had an offense 
behind him.  I think that part of Morris' success is what he is able 
to do with runners on base, and how he adjusts to specific 
situations.  This is what makes him unique.  But there is only one Jack
Morris, and I still believe that the key to winning is a low team ERA,
and an offense to back it up.  Successful teams that lack one or the 
other are few and far between.  It may sound like I'm stating the 
obvious here, but the key to successful baseball is most often very
simple, and very obvious.

- Lawrence

-- 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: Re: Cy Young?
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:56:03 GMT

In article 23405@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com, dougb@comm.mot.com (Doug Bank) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.135525.19552@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, riff@coos.dartmouth.edu (Christopher P. Riff) writes:
>
>|> Does anyone know if Lefebvre will (or would have had Maddux not won on
>|> Wednesday) pitch Maddux on 3 days rest in the Cubs final game on Sunday?
>
>Maddux WAS already pitching on three days rest on Wednesday.  The guys on
>WGN radio suspect that they will pitch him again on three days rest
>if Maddux wants another start.
>

On Cubs pregame today, Harry Caray asked LeFebvre about that situation.
LeFebvre asked Maddux if he wanted to pitch on Sunday. Maddux left it
up to LeFebvre and Billy Connors to do as they wished.

So LeFebvre decided that Maddux had done enough and won't start him Sunday.

In terms of the Cy Young, I hope that Maddux's performance on Wednesday
vs Pittsburgh is more than enough evidence to the writers of the kind 
of season he has had. I find it hard to believe that the writers would
give it to Tom Glavine, but nothing the writers do should surprise me
anymore.

******************************************************************************
--Stan Macasieb (stanm@comm.mot.com)              |  1992 Election Ballot
--Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector           |  
--Schaumburg, IL (just another suburb of Chicago) |  For President-
--------------------------------------------------|
~~The opinion expressed in this post is not       |  ___ George Bush (GOP)
~~necessarily those of this corporation.          |  ___ Bill Clinton (Dem)
~~Copyright 1992, all rights reserved.            |  ___ H Ross Perot (Weenie)
******************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ecaxron@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham)
Subject: Re: Gammons' Awards
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: postseason  award  Gammons
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 30 Sep 1992 12:21 EST  

In article <1992Sep30.032307.23944@dvorak.amd.com>, 
     twhite@mozart.amd.com (Tom White) writes...

>Peter Gammons listed his postseason award predictions (choices?)
>on SportsCenter on Tuesday.
>           American League        National League
>MVP        Dennis Eckersley       Barry Bonds
>Cy Young   Dennis Eckersley       Greg Maddux
>Rookie     Pat Listach            Eric Karros
>Manager    Tony LaRussa           Jim Leyland

I take everything Gammons says with a grain of salt after last-year's 
pre-season picks for Cy Young and ROY.  Remember?  He chose

		AL		NL
Cy Young	Clemens		Hurst
ROY		Naehring	Bagwell

Now, what do those four names all have in common?  Think "Red Sox."
In all fairness to Gammons, it was the preseason, and few of us know
what will happen six months ahead of time.  But you have to wonder how
many other teams he looks over.

Lofton for AL ROY!  Coming to a headline near you.

RG

"I'm the luckiest guy in Callahooga County."  -  Dennis Cook
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: George Bell
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:34:26 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <17643@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>  
zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Didi Seven Huckabay) writes:
> Neff writes:
> 
> I state the obvious:
> 
> >>The role of EVERY player on a ballclub is the same -
> >>to help the team WIN GAMES.  (Or, as Mike Fester will point out,
> >>correctly, to put butts in the seats.)  If Bell has a different  
agenda
> >>than this, sit his butt on the next plane to San Francisco.
> 
> >I'm not backing down here.  George Bell bats behind Thomas BECAUSE  
Thomas
> >is going to give him a lot of opportunities with men on base.   
That's
> >why there's a batting order.  Look at some of Bobby Knight's  
basketball
> >players.  Steve Alford could do one thing.  Shoot.  He couldn't  
dribble,
> >pass or play defense.  Does this mean he wasn't helping his team  
win? No.
> 
> Aside from the fact that you're talking about basketball, this  
still
> doesn't address the point.  George Bell's 'job' is NOT to drive in
> runs.  It is TO HELP THE TEAM WIN GAMES.  Your point about  
basketball
> is completely lost on me - I don't care for the game, as it makes  
me
> feel even shorter and squatter than I a currently am. (And, at 5'  
9",
> 195#, that's fairly short and squat.)

I'm sure that any player/manager/fan would agree that the job
of any player is to help his team win games. The question is: how
is this accomplished?  Several folks in this group have made
rather convincing arguments that the way to do this is with OBP
and slugging, not RBI.  So what should George Bell's job be? 
Easy, it SHOULD be to get on base and aim for a high slugging
percentage, not just for an RBI. However, what IS his job?
Whatever the manager tells him his job is.  If the manager tells
him that his job is to drive in runs, then his job is to drive
in runs, even if it should be to get a high OBP.

> >I don't see how you can say he hasn't done exactly what the Sox  
wanted.
> 
> If the Sox want someone as their designated hitter with a sub -.300
> OBP, then they're fools, because they could score more runs, and
> thereby probably win more game by finding someone who slugs 30  
points
> less, and gets on base 30 points more.

They may be fools, but I wouldn't be surprised if what 
they wanted was a DH who would drive in lots of runs, and to
hell with his OBP.  (Of course, this could explain why the 
Sox had such a disappointing season.)
--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt "Some Guy" Bose)
Subject: Re: NL ROY: Why not Reggie Sanders?
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 14:39:40 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <17868@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> itlm013@natasha.ucdavis.edu writes:
>In reading this newsgroup, and McThang, I've noticed that quite a
>few people (maybe not all, but a sizable portion) seem to be ceding
>the NL Rookie of the Year award to LA's Eric Karros.
>
>Why?

Because he has nice mediaphile stats.  (This is an explanation, not a 
justification)

He's got what, 20 home runs and 85 ribbies, right?  He's also on a club that's
got a lot of media attention.  And, if you're the type of person who believes in
that sort of thing (and I'm not), he's white.

Now, _personally_, I'm voting for Karros because I knew him at Albuquerque.
That, I think, may be considered to be a dippy reason, but his minor league
numbers say that he walks.  I think the reason he hasn't walked in the majors
and therefore fallen behind in RC/27 :) is that as the leader in HRs (by 14) and
RBIs (by 45), he's taken it upon himsrlf to think that he has to support the
club.  The games I've seen this year on ESPN tend to support that, since I can
tell you right now that his swing is better than that.  He's pressing.
>
>I don't have the numbers with me at this exact moment, but my recollection
>is that Sanders has had a better year, both offensively and defensively,
>than Karros, and he's played it at a tougher defensive position.
>
Hey, if they give it to Sanders, I'll be satisfied.  For a while early in the
year, it seemed like he hadn't been playing at all, and when the big Sanders-
Karros-Alou discussion came up, I thought he'd played less than he had and was
out for the season.  I'm still voting for Karros, but that's because he isn't
the offensive zero Nelson et al makes him out to be.  He will walk in the major
leagues, and his average will rise another twenty-twenty five points or so.

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kbos@carina.unm.edu * Make..oh, you know.---
-"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing when it is--
--no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors.  The cause of the other-
---half can be attributed to playing Jose Offerman at short." - John Stuart Mill
From: machman@milton.u.washington.edu (The Machman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Randy Johnson
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:34:32 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

mmartin@wpi.WPI.EDU (Matthew Wayne Martin) writes:

>	While watching the Red Sox game yesterday, Sean McDonough mentioned,
>as they were going off the air, that Randy Johnson had 18 K's through 7
>innings.  How many did he end up with?  Did he break Clemens' record?

RJ had 18 K's in 8 innings.  Mamager Bill Plummer didn't let him complete
the game, probably because he had already made 160 pitches.  he struck out
the side four times.

by the way, the Mariners ended up losing the game to the Rangers, 3 - 2.
it's reminiscent of the M's recent 2 - 1 loss to the Angels when RJ had 
15 K's through 9 innings.  that was also a no-decision for RJ.


-- 
 /'''   The Machman     machman@milton.u.washington.edu    david c carroll
 c-OO                                                                      
    \                     "Big Science.  Hallelujah"
   -                                                                       
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ellis@cherry.cis.ohio-state.edu (steven lawrence ellis)
Subject: Greg Swindell
Keywords: Reds and NL West
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:24:59 GMT

What's the deal w/ Greg Swindell?  Since his rib injury he has not been
himself.  He was as dominant as about any pitcher out there from mid May to
around mid July.  Since coming off the DL he has been slightly below average
and well below his personal average.

Also, I've heard rumors about his wanting to play next year in Houston.  Is
Houston ready to pay that kind of money?  I think they should.  If you add
a couple of outstanding players to that club they already have enough talent
that they could be one of the best in the west next year.  Consider that the
Reds have a couple of people eligible for free-agency this year.  Anyone know
about the Braves situation in this reguard?  It will be an interesting off-
season.

Any thoughts?

S. Ellis
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Subject: BAERGA best AL 2d base ever? 
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 17:26:03 GMT

In article <9210040447.AA03564@bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> C Robert Claydon <cclaydon@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> writes:
>And to add more fuel to the fire, Baerga has had quite probably the most 
>overall excellent by an AL second-sacker EVER!  

It's always inherently mistaken for a SDCN to respond to a woof, but here
goes:

Given that he isn't even the best AL 2nd-baseman this year, this probably
isn't accurate.  (I'd still put Alomar and Whitaker ahead of Baerga, though
Carlos should be ahead of Lou next year.)

Don't get me wrong: Baerga's a franchise player, and is a great starting
point to build a contending team.  And he's going to become more and more
impressive, especially if he ever learns some patience at the plate and
trades some of those outs for walks.  But he is most definitely not the
best 2nd-base in the AL this year, much less all time.

>Yes, that's right, and no, I'm 
>not smoking anything funny.  Baerga the other night got his 200th and 201st 
>hits of the season, to make him the first EVER AL 2bman to hit .300+ with 20 
>homers, 200 hits and 100 RBI in the same season.  

You know, this is the kind of bogus stat that gives SDCN's a bad name,
even though you'd never catch a SDCN using it.  Bill James gives reasons
why such stats are bogus (from the 1992 Baseball Book, pp 149-50).

It arbitrarily selects some categories in which the player happens to
have excelled and puts them together as if they represent a test of
excellence.  For any given above-average player, one can construct a
series of statistics that makes him the first EVER to do something.
That one can do this for Baerga by setting six arbitrary cut-off points
(AL, position, BA, HR, H, and RBI) proves nothing about his level of
skill, as high as it might be.
-- 
ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
ajax crypto-analyzer -- warning! remove all chicken bones first
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:25:28 EDT
From: Todd Bobenrieth <TAB129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Gary Sheffield
 <19t04lINN91d@email.sp.unisys.com>

The Brewers received rock star Alice Cooper and a bag of M&Ms as I recall...
Date: Tuesday, 29 Sep 1992 19:49:53 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: one shot wonders/single season records

thanks to my handy-dandy franklin thingy,

  in 1931 earl webb hit 67 doubles (record).  the most he hit
  in any other year was 30.

  in 1912 chief wilson hit 36 triples (record).  the most he hit
  in any other year was 14.



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: George Brett's 3000th Hit
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:05:26 GMT


As I didn't see it posted, or maybe I'm ignorant ( :-| ), congratulations to
the Kansas City Royals' George Brett on #3000 last night. Maybe it's because
it was done on the West Coast that the news of the accomplishment comes as a
surprise, not to mention the injury that forced him to the bench the last
two days.

And he went 4-for-4. Vintage Brett.

******************************************************************************
--Stan Macasieb (stanm@comm.mot.com)              |  1992 Election Ballot
--Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector           |  
--Schaumburg, IL (just another suburb of Chicago) |  For President-
--------------------------------------------------|
~~The opinion expressed in this post is not       |  ___ George Bush (GOP)
~~necessarily those of this corporation.          |  ___ Bill Clinton (Dem)
~~Copyright 1992, all rights reserved.            |  ___ H Ross Perot (Weenie)
******************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: CRAAARB@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Ugliest player (res.)
Organization: Yale University
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 17:39:16 EDT

In what is surely my favorite lapsed discussion in reading through old files (I
'm new to the newsgroup), I'd like to nominate John Candeleria for the ugliest
baseball player of all time, and no one, not even Willie McGee, comes close.
  - Capital
--
"He throws a mean forkball, complemented with a spoonball and a knifeball,
bringing new meaning to the phrase, 'setting the table'"- SI on Ruben Dario Per
ez
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball