From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
Subject: Re: Feminism's Lesbian Leaders (was: Why are there only men on)
Date: 04 Jan 93 05:31:20 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1993Jan4.000601.10282@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>In article <MUFFY.93Jan3141424@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan2.032141.18000@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>And a
>male phychologist, like a female friend, is more likely to be involved
>in a hetero relationship, and more likely to have ideas and motivation
>to patch up an ailing relationship.

It seems to me that you are assuming that a same-sex relationship is
fundementally different from a mixed-sex relationship. Skills/knowledge
learned in same-sex relationships and mixed-sex relationships are 
mutually exclusive. Am I receiving your message correctly?

>>                                      So, for a woman who does not wish
>>to stick with the societal roles, a lesbian might be the best person to
>>advise her, as the lesbian has probably considered all possible roles
>>for herself in relationships and made choices, rather than just
>>following a predefined path.
>
>Thanks, you just make my point. She may have motivation to advise an
>end to the relationship, for reasons having nothing to do with the
>relationship per se. 

You seem to be assuming that a lesbian will automatically try
to "convert" any woman she can to her own sexual orientation.

Such an unethical creature might and probably does exist. However,
in my own sexual identity struggles, it's the HETEROSEXUALS who
tell me I'm "confused" and the lesbigays who tell me that only *I*
can decide what's right for ME. It's also the lesbigays who go
out of their way to state that they don't want to influence me
- becuase they have been so often the target of het "evangelists".

>>>How can one advise about something one knows little about,
>>
>>Why do you think that lesbians know "little" about relationships?  Why
>>should they know any less than anyone else?
>
>Do lesbians know anything about HETERO relationships? Try to concentrate 
>Muffy, it's another one of those context things you were grilling me 
>about. And when I use the word lesbian, I am excluding bi-females, can
>we talk about the same thing?

Why are you assuming that all people who have ever had hetero experience
are BI or het?  90% of the population is het, most children (gay or straight)
grow up with het parents, are groomed for het relationships, and 
are surrounded by the het world. Why do you think that lesbians are
so unable to learn from their experiences in the het world?

Most of the women I know who self-identify as lesbians have had het
relationships. Not necessarily relationships that they considered
"bad", just het relationships.

>The point is that some homosexuals find heterosexual relationships
>either distastefull, or they literally hate heterosexuals. 

Interesting. I've never met anyone with these views. Sounds like
they're going to have problems in this world [much like the hets
who hate lesbigays have problems, or [memberofrace1] who hates
[memberofrace2] has problems].

I would be very surprised if a het asked such a person for relationship
advice.  Assuming, of course, that the homosexual in question became
friends with a het DESPITE their anti-het bigotry...from what you 
describe, that's nearly impossible.

>Having
>had the pleasure of conversing (so to speak) with a few flaming 
>anti-heterosexual homosexual's on the net, I am not going to qualify their
>existance. I will only state that I have no idea how prevalant this
>is.

Well, in my realife and net experience, it's 0%.  Maybe I'm not in 
the right newsgroups <grin>

-jen

Newsgroups: alt.feminism