From: hwatters@armltd.uucp (Helen Watters)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Take Back the Dildo
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:37:28 GMT
Organization: Advanced RISC Machines Ltd


Steve wrote
>Using "they" as the sexless singular is:
>        1) not what they teach in U.S. schools either,
>AND     2) a construction used by many people out of laziness or ignorance,
>AND     3) IMHO, eventually going to be standard English because of #2.

>That's my guess about how language evolution works--the language needs
>something new, old constructions get twisted to fit, teachers complain,
>then they stop complaining and make it mandatory.  In a while, "they" will
>be like "you," either singular or plural, depending on context.

The grammar rule (Rule 21) that man/he/his represents the human 
race was written down in the 1700's. Before this grammar rule was 
engraved in stone, it was more common to use they/their.  If is 
important to know who and  when wrote this rule I will look up 
the reference.  The fact that this rule excluded half the human race 
didn't matter, because in the 18th century, that half was only 
women, not a particularly important half!!

The use of man/he/his makes women invisible.  I think Helen Palfey 
writing an article in "The Woman Engineer" Autumn 1990 put it rather well.
"Recently I was at a meeting where we were informed "each tutor may tell his
tutees their marks". Did this mean was I not allowed to tell my tutees their 
marks?  Could someone else tell them? How would my tutees get to know? My 
attention had been diverted and I felt my presence as individual had been 
ignored".

I have felt like that on occasions too. AND I DON'T LIKE FEELING I AM
INVISIBLE. 

There are other examples around too. Beth Weiss posted the best example
I know about.
 
Miller, Casey and Kate Swift, "Words and Women", New York: Doubleday,
Anchor Press, 1977, pp 19-20
 
"In 1972, two sociologists at Drake University, Joseph Schneider and
Sally Hacker, decided to test the hypothesis that _man_ is generally
understood to embrace _women_. Some three hundred college studnets
were asked to select from magazines and newspapers a variety of
pictures that would appropriately illustrate the different chapters of
a sociology textbook being prepared for publication.  Half the
students were assigned chapters headings like "Social Man",
"Industrial Man", and "Political Man".  The other half ws given
different but corresponding headings like "Society", "Industrial
Life", and "Political Behavior".  Analysis of the pictures selected
revealed that in the minds of students of both sexes use of the word
_man_ evoked, to a statistically significant degree, images of males
only--filtering out recognition of women's participation in these
major areas of life--whereas the corresponding headings without _man_
evoked images of both males and females.  In some instances the
differences reached magnitues of 30 to 40 per cent.  
`This is rather convincing evidence that when you use the
word _man_ generically, people do tend to think male, and tend not to
think female."

I think the best book on this subject is Man Made Languge by Dale Spender,
which is where I got the information on the grammar rule.

I do not like to be ignored, so I certainly will continue to use they/their
instead of man/he/his. It isn't laziness, I use they/their delibrately and
as far as I am concerned the sooner this out dated rule is dropped
the better. 

Helen
Newsgroups: alt.testsoc.culture.usa,soc.women,alt.rush-limbaugh,soc.men,alt.fan.q