HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: martin@Chemeng.Ed.Ac.Uk (Martin Spenceley)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: In article 20K@phage.cshl.org, pjm@isis.cshl.org (Pat Monardo) writes:
Date: 10 Nov 92 13:58:30 GMT
Reply-To: martin@Chemeng.Ed.Ac.Uk
Organization: Edinburgh University Chemical Engineering Department.
Originator: martin@wick

I have always been pro-Sun. When I took up using XView back in 1989
XView was by far the best, easiest, most productive GUI toolkit there
was. And in many cases it is still the best.

Dumping XView and supporting OLIT is the worst case of short
sightedness and ignorance there st. It certainly make me look like a
fool, when people ask me about which toolkit to use. I always recommend
XView to my colleges, it is so good. But what can I say when they
mention Suns lack of support for it. When I mention Sun want to use
OLIT (based on Xintrinsics) they decide to go straight to the Motif
toolkit. 

Recommending developers to use OLIT is a way of persuading developers
write for Motif straight away. At least you would be rewarded for the
distaste in using Xintrinsics by increasing your sales potential!

Maybe this is the time for me to dump OPEN LOOK and go Motif with its
poor unergonomic interface and dismal toolkit. B^)


>i would prefer to continue using XView until a MUCH
>higher level/sophisticated (for example, more sophisticated
>than Smalltalk, say) toolkit is available.
>i think it is coming with DOE.

I hope you are right. But I thought they are just going to enhance 
(read: dabble) OLIT.

How long can you hope Sun will support you using the DOE toolkit and/or OLIT?


Martin
-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Martin W. Spenceley                        Telephone 031 650 5891         
    Department of Chemical Engineering         Email M.W.Spenceley@uk.ac.ed   
    Edinburgh University                       or    martin@uk.ac.ed.chemeng  
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: ebx@scs.carleton.ca (edmond bo xiao)
Subject: XView PRogramming: Access objects within child.
Reply-To: ebx@scs.carleton.ca
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:41:13 GMT

Does anybody have experience with accessing XView objects within a forked
process? Say, if I want to monitor an input and send all/any to an XView
tty or so. I fork a child after all object creations. Everything works
fine except I can't write within the child. The call returns correctly but 
nothing happens to the tty. I even tried shared memory but still didn't
get it. 

Writing from the parent process is ok.

Thanks to all replies.

edmond

---
==============================================================================
eeeeee    bbbbbb    x    x          \ i /  \  ._i_,     School of Comp. Sci.
e  eeeeee b  bbbbbb  x xx   x       .---.     | | /     Carleton University
eeeeee  e bbbbb   b   xxx  x        |---|  \  |---.     Ottawa, Ontario
e  eeeeee b  bbbbb   x  xxx         |___|     |\ /      Canada K1S 5B6
eeeeee    bbbbbb  b x   xx x        |   |   / / X       (613)788-2600x4340
   eeeeee    bbbbbb    x    x       |   J  / / / \      ebx@scs.carleton.ca
=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~
	If there is only one thing works, try the QUIT button.
==============================================================================
From: gillett@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Walter E. Gillett)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Is there an XView port to SCO Unix available?
Date: 13 Nov 1992 19:56:55 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: rice-chex.ai.mit.edu

The subject says it all.  I'm interested in both XView2 and XView3.
				Thanks in advance for any help!
---------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Shapiro (NOT Walter Gillett, though I'm using his account!)
Please send replies to:                        joe@ConSolve.com
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: macleodr@cc4.crl.aecl.ca
Subject: Xview and tcl experiences please...
Organization: AECL RESEARCH
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:57:49 GMT

Hello Newsreaders,
  I am about to start embedding tcl and tclX into an xview program
that does interactive physics data analysis. (I can not switch to
tk for at least a few months.) I hope that this will provide me with
a command language and scripting capabilities from both the command line
and the xview GUI. I would like to know if other people
have done this and if there are any programs that I could check
out. If you have done this, were there any serious problems?

Please send your e-mail to macleod@cu49.crl.aecl.ca.
I will summarize, if requested.

  Thanks,
    Randy MacLeod.
From: matt@centerline.com (Matt Landau)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Re: SunSoft Windows Positioning
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:16:15 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.1.32

In <e5pcprq@openlook.Unify.Com> fgreco@shearson.com (Frank Greco) writes:
>>Q4. When will XView be EOLed?
>>A4. There are no EOL plans for XView, nor are we considering it
>>    in the foreseeable future.
>
>	Hell, once you say there will be limited new functionality
>	after 2.2, that *is* the EOL.

I have to concur -- this sounds pretty much like the death knell for
XView, which is too bad since it's one of the few X11 toolkits that 
mere mortals can learn to use.  [The OI class library is the other 
one, at least if mere mortals want to program in C++ :-)]

>	Why didn't SunSoft let us, the *LOYAL* XView developer
>	community, know of at least some notion that it was even
>	thinking of doing this?  

Sun has been quietly telling various developers to ues OLIT for quite 
some time.  They suggested that we use OLIT instead of XView to build 
new versions of CodeCenter almost two years ago.  (Incidentally, we 
didn't end up using either one.)

>	This is ill-planned.  This is not how one migrates a user
>	community.

True, but unfortunately, it seems to be SOP for Sun these days, at least
where window system tools are concerned (NeWS, tNt, etc.)  

I'm surprised, really, because Sun does a much better job with the base 
operating system; they were really good about telling people clearly and
well in advance about the planned Solaris 2 migration path and EOL on 
SunOS 4.x, the unbundling of the compiler, etc.

>	I would never recommend programming with an Xt-intrinsics based
>	toolkit to anyone that is developing a commercial product or
>	any other substantial application.
>
>	In-house programmers want ease-of-programming.  VAR's want a
>	cross-platform toolkit.  OLIT gives you neither.

But on the brighter side, maybe this will get people to take a second
look at other non-widget based toolkits.  There are a lot of good ideas
out there, and a lot of interesting implementations.  Perhaps if the 
choice is between OLIT and an alternative toolkit, the alternatives will
have a better chance :-)

Needless to say, these comments are my own, and do not necessarily reflect 
the opinions of CenterLine Software, its officers, or its employees.
--
 Matt Landau			Waiting for a flash of enlightenment
 matt@centerline.com			  in all this blood and thunder
From: merlyn@usl.com
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Re: OLIT PopupWindowShell woes
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:51:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: openlook.jutcrfs
Distribution: world

>> In an OLIT application, I am creating a PopupWindowShell
>> which, when realized, obscures a StaticText widget.
>> A popup callback does a setvalues on the StaticText background
>> and string resources.  
>> 
>> When the popup goes away, the underlying StaticText is
>> unchanged:  Neither the background color nor the
>> text are unchanged.  By temporarily obscuring the
>> StaticText with another window and uncovering it, presto,
>> the update occurs.

> This is a bug in the Sun OpenWindows server (xnews).
> 1056492 Widget doesn't redisplay new image after being unobscured
> ...
> 1101123 x11news server fails to generate correct expose events with popup window
> ...
> Popup windows use backing store (y'know, so that they
> don't have to refresh what lies underneath).
> 
> Well, if you modify the appearance of something
> that is underneath a popup window then the 
> beastie under that popup does not get an
> expose event.

In summary (if I read this correctly): (1) The xnews server has
trouble with save-unders. (2) The PopupWindow (and any other
windows subclassed from TransientShell or OverrideShell) by
default turn on save-unders.

A work-around is to turn off the save-unders, by setting XtNsaveUnders
on the PopupWindow widget to False:

*PopupWindowShell.saveUnders: false


Steve Humphrey
UNIX System Laboratories
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: cflatter@nrao.edu (Chris Flatters)
Subject: Re: Devguide's term pane
Reply-To: cflatter@nrao.edu
Organization: NRAO
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 00:30:20 GMT

In article 1527@eng.umd.edu, kelso@eng.umd.edu (John Kelso) writes:

>I'm writing a program using Devguide 3.0.  I'd like to have the program
>open a window and allow the user to enter some Unix commands, and have
>the program capture the window's contents.
>
>Devguide's term pane seems like the obvious choice for this.  The problem
>is that there is almost no documentation about term panes.
>
>I looked at the code that was generated, and can see that it uses an object
>called TERMSW.  My O'Reilly books make no mention of this type of object.

The TERMWS package is a union of TEXTSW and TTY.  The TERMSW
implementation is pretty kludgy and Sun have tried (without much
success) to discourage its use pending the creation of a better
package.  Hence it not being documented in Vol. 7.

	Chris Flatters
	cflatter@nrao.edu
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: kelley@open.dal.ca (Dan Kelley)
Subject: Re: SunSoft Windows Toolkits Positioning
Summary: (finally) an intelligent file-open box?
Keywords: xview, olit
Organization: OPEN, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:39:04 GMT


In article <lg0f6pINNsak@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> mukerjee@sereno.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Mukerjee) writes:
>...
>FUTURE SUPPORT AND PLANS FOR XVIEW
>...
>Q6. Will there be any new features added to XView?
>A6. Yes, some new features will be added to XView.  Features that are
>    currently under development are:
>       Fully integrated File Chooser object

Wow.  Does this mean sun applications will have an intelligent "file
open" menu item, like Macintosh has had since 1984?  Every time I see
a mac/next/... file-load dialog box being used, and contrast it Sun's
"please type directoryname/filename" dialog box, I wonder how Sun
manages to add year after year to an 8 year lag in interface
sophistication.  It's not like Sun is a small company with no
resources.
-- 
Dan Kelley, Oceanography Department   |  kelley@open.dal.ca
Dalhousie University                  |  {uunet watmath}!dalcs!kelley
Halifax, Nova Scotia, CANADA, B3H 4J1 |  (902) 494-1694
Xref: sparky comp.windows.open-look:4440 comp.windows.x:18983 alt.toolkits.xview:1050
From: wrv@balr.com (Bill Vogel)
Subject: Re: SunSoft Windows Toolkits Positioning
Organization: BALR Corporation, Oak Brook, Illinois.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:48:22 GMT

The following is my opinion:

> Q1. Is TNT still supported by SunSoft?
    No.  Its gone in the next release of openwindows.  DPS doesn't
    have the input extenstions to make  anything vaguely resembling TNT
    work.

> Q2. Will there be more releases of TNT?
    No.

> Q3. I've heard that TNT may no longer be shipped after this year.
       Is this true?
    The next release of openwindows (4.0) will include the openwindows 3.0
    server which will have NeWS support and TNT, but it is the same stuff
    as in openwin 3.0.  Openwin 4.0 will simply be X11R5 with DPS.

> Q4. When will TNT be EOLed?
      Openwindows 4.0.

> Q5. Will TNT source ever be publicly available?
      Good question.

> Q6. Will there be any new features added to TNT?
      No.

> Q7. Should I rewrite my application in DPS?
     You probably can't.  DPS can't do any type of input handling.  Its
     basically output only, with a few stupid little extensions.

> Q8. Is there a significant engineering effort behind TNT?
     None, in my opinion.

> Q9. What is Sun's current feeling about NeWS?
     My opinion:  they couldn't care less.  This is
     what you get when break the software part of a computer
     company into a seperate little corporation that has to be
     profitable on its own.  First, they unbundle the compiler so
     they can charge you for what you've been getting free (and probably
     should legally continue to get if you are paying $$$ for software
     support).  AT&T tried this (unbundling Unix)
     about 5 years ago after they figured out that nobody wanted to
     buy 3B20's.  Then you had the text formatting utilities, and basic
     networking utilities (read: uucp), the software development utilities,
     the printer utilities (read: lpr), the blah blah utilities, etc...
     I don't think people were very happy with them.  Anyway, the second
     point is that its easier to just take MIT's X11R5 server, compile and
     ship it than to take NeWS and keep merging it with new releases of X11.
     Its a "screw the customer" bottom line decision intended to make
     SunSoft more profitable by not having to support NeWS.  Period.
     Bill Joy and Scott McNeely are too busy driving around in their
     Ferrari's to care any more about the "hackers" that helped make
     their company what it is today.  :-(
    
     I wonder how long it will be until they drop Open Look for Motif,
     because then they can just resell OSF's code and they won't have to
     have a programming staff supporting and enhancing Open Look any
     more.

     We are now faced with a complete rewrite of our SYSMON application
     in pure Xlib calls.  The ironic part of that is once that's done,
     our product will be easily portable to ANY platform like HP, IBM,
     etc.  The current NeWS based version only works on Suns. :-)


	Bill Vogel
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: morss@eksignal.kodak.com (Charlie Morss)
Subject: single character text fields w/ panel notify level
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 16:15:37 GMT

A few questions from a friend of mine (who doesn't have
News access) came up. I can't figure them out so maybe
someone can give us a hand.

Question #1

Using devguide 3.0.

" I'm trying to create an application with a lot of single 
character text fields and need to auto-tab to the next field
when a key is hit. "

"I set up a single char text field w/ a connection to itself with
'when' set to notify. I have an xv_set(window,PANEL_NOTIFY_LEVEL,
PANEL_ALL,NULL) in the main, so my callback triggers on each
character. In the callback I want the spacebar to move to the 
next field so I use: 

	if (event_is_down(event) && event_id(event) == 32)
		return PANEL_NEXT;

"It does move the cursor but I get an annoying beep. Why?"



Question #2

"If you set up a text field w/ a connection to itself and 'when'
set to any event, anytime you reposition the caret using the mouse,
it leaves a 'ghost' caret behind. Any ideas? (The code output by
devguide was not modifed at all)."

Anyone have a fix or a better method of moving the caret to a 
specific text item when a key is hit? 


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Charlie Morss                               Voice: (716) 726-5461
morss@eksignal.kodak.com                      Fax: (716) 726-4850 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: kelso@eng.umd.edu (John Kelso)
Subject: Devguide's term pane
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:02:51 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park


Greetings,

I'm writing a program using Devguide 3.0.  I'd like to have the program
open a window and allow the user to enter some Unix commands, and have
the program capture the window's contents.

Devguide's term pane seems like the obvious choice for this.  The problem
is that there is almost no documentation about term panes.

I looked at the code that was generated, and can see that it uses an object
called TERMSW.  My O'Reilly books make no mention of this type of object.

Here's the code:

/*
 * Create object `termpane1' in the specified instance.
 */
Xv_opaque
Untitled1_popup1_termpane1_create(ip, owner)
	Untitled1_popup1_objects	*ip;
	Xv_opaque	owner;
{
	Xv_opaque	obj;
	
	obj = xv_create(owner, TERMSW,
		XV_KEY_DATA, INSTANCE, ip,
		XV_X, 0,
		XV_Y, 0,
		XV_WIDTH, WIN_EXTEND_TO_EDGE,
		XV_HEIGHT, 192,
		OPENWIN_SHOW_BORDERS, TRUE,
		NULL);
	return obj;
}

Can anyone out there tell me where I can get some documentation about this,
or some alternative method to do what I'm trying to do?

Many thanks,

John
-- 
			John Kelso, Applications Manager
      University of Maryland College of Engineering, College Park MD 20742
		 kelso@eng.umd.edu -or- uunet!eng.umd.edu!kelso
--
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: mark@jade.ab.ca (Mark Davoren)
Subject: Can I place windows when they are created.
Organization: Jade Simulations International, Inc.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:14:29 GMT

Hi,
  Is there a way to set OpenWindows version 2 such that when a window
is created the user uses the mouse to determine where the window is to
be placed rather the default OpenLook policy of placing windows
diagonally down the display? With mwm I can set the resource
InteractivePlacement and with twm it seems to happen by default.

Any ideas?? Thanks.

Mark Davoren
mark@jade.ab.ca
Project Manager
Jade Simulations Inc.
From: lupe@ukw.uucp (Lupe Christoph)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Re: SunSoft Windows Toolkits Positioning
Keywords: xview, olit
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:16:54 GMT
Organization: cic

mukerjee@sereno.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Mukerjee) writes:

>OLIT is ...

>XView is ...

TnT isn't ...

>I sincerely hope this Windows Toolkits positioning statement
>and the role XView will play in future will reassure developers that 
>SunSoft is aware of the needs in the marketplace and will continue
>to strive in offering innovative technologies in a systematic manner.

And I thought TnT was innovative...
-- 
| ...!unido!ukw!lupe  (German EUNet, "bang")     |  Disclaimer:            |
| lupe@ukw.UUCP       (German EUNet, domain)     |  As I am self-employed, |
| suninfo!alanya!lupe (Sun Germany)              |  this *is* the opinion  |
| Res non sunt complicanda praeter necessitatem. |  of my employer.        |
From: cdh@eng.cam.ac.uk (Chris Horne)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Open Look on HP 9000/340
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:59:05 GMT
Reply-To: cdh@eng.cam.ac.uk
Organization: University of Cambridge

I think that this may have been discussed before, but is there any way to
run Open Look on a Hewlett Plackard model 9000/340?

Thanks in advance,

Chris Horne.



__
Chris Horne BEng ACGI | Tel: +44 223 332738 | University of Cambridge 
cdh@eng.cam.ac.uk     | Fax: +44 223 332662 | Department of Engineering

"Today must be Thursday. I never could quite get the hang of Thursdays"
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: lee@sq.sq.com (Liam R. E. Quin)
Subject: Re: MailTool3 and .signature files
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 21:07:39 GMT

Including your .signature in OpenWindows 3 Mailtool Version 3:

[1] slowest, most general

    type the filename

    select it

    hold down the Left key or Alt key and press i (for Include)

    Press return when the dialogue box appears
    
    the filename will be replaced by its contents.

[2] faster

    Use Edit->Properties to make a template whose filename is the name of
    your .signature.  Use Include->Templates to bring it into your message.

[4] fastest, least general

    copy /usr/lib/.textswrc to your home directory
    chmod +w $HOME/.textswrc
    edit it to change (for example) the line after
	KEY_RIGHT(7)    FILTER
    so that it looks like
	KEY_RIGHT(7)    FILTER
	cat /home/sqlee/lee/.signature

   with /home/sqlee/lee changed to your login directory, of course.

   The next time you start mailtool or textedit, control-left-shift-R7
   will insert your .signature, replacing any selected text.

   Yes, control-shift-left-R7.

   If I can work out how to use a simpler key, I'll put this in the FAQ.

Lee


-- 
lee@sq.com (Liam Quin) the barefoot programmer; SoftQuad Inc +1 416 239 4801
 OPEN LOOK UI FAQ; Metafont list; HexSweeper NeWS game; lq-text text retrieval
``They thought him, and they justly thought him, one   [lq-text-request@sq.com
  Sent to do more than he appeared to have done.''   Wm. Cowper, Conversation
From: mling@jade.tufts.edu (Maurice CM Ling)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Devguide, File selector
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:11:08 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

Hi Everyone,

Three quick questions:

1:  Is it possible to add widgets to devguide?

2:  Is there a canned file selector available?

3:  Is there a FAQ where these questions are answered?  :)

Thanks

-- 
Mighty Mo
* ** * ** * ** * ** * ** * ** * ** * ** * ** * ** * ** * ** * ** * ** * **
                                                \/
                                               >--< ======================
From: jsc@saxon.Eng.Sun.COM (John Cooper)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Re: OLIT PopupWindowShell woes
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:19:04 GMT
Organization: SunSoft, Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: saxon
In-reply-to: merlyn@usl.com's message of 9 Nov 92 14:51:00 GMT

>> Steve Humphrey writes:

 Steve> A work-around is to turn off the save-unders, by setting XtNsaveUnders
 Steve> on the PopupWindow widget to False:

 Steve> *PopupWindowShell.saveUnders: false

Yes, and this suffices if running under twm.

However, (Sun's) olwm also turns on save_under for the frames of all
windows which set the WM_TRANSIENT_FOR property. So, to turn off
save-unders for PopupWindows, this WM behavior also needs to be disabled:

    olwm.TransientsSaveUnder: False

--
	--- John
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look,comp.sys.sun.apps
From: nh@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (nicholas.hounsome)
Subject: TIOCFLUSH problem
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 08:31:02 GMT

Every now and again I get console messages like:

       TIOCFLUSH: Timer expired

These often coincide with a cmdtool temporarily locking up for about 
30 seconds.

What is it and how do I stop it?

Sun people - is there a patch?

Nick Hounsome
AT&T Network Systems UK Ltd.
From: fgreco@cfdev1026.shearson.com (Frank Greco)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Re: How to create a button on a canvas?
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:54:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: openlook.bvtcazs
Distribution: world

> I want to create a button on a canvas and give the button a callback function.
> How should I do?

Due to design of XView (actually its Sunview's fault), there isn't a
straightforward method of doing this ... sigh...  However there are
several alternatives:

	1.) Use a Canvas to draw.  Then use olgx library to render
	a button image and use simple hit detection to get mouse-event
	which triggers callback.

		adv: Probably would be Sun's recommended method
		dis: Too much work

	2.) Use a ScrollingPanel (ie, SCROLLABLE_PANEL) to draw.  Then
	merely create a button on this panel.

		adv: Easiest to do
		dis: Not OPENLOOK-compliant

	3.) Get Slingshots.  Use a Canvas_shell to draw, and use a
	Drawtext or Drawimage as your button.  Drawtext/Drawimage (ie,
	Rectobj) can have a callback associated with it.

		adv: Most Flexible (by far)
		dis: Not formal part of XView pkg, yet another library


	Frank G.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: dennis@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Dennis Armstrong )
Subject: Re: olvwm(?) delay in opening/closing windows
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 01:35:38 GMT

I have experienced the same phenomenon since upgrading to 
olvwm 3.2.  It's become quite frustrating having this 
additional delay.  Actually, annoying.  I to have been 
trying to avoid the open/close keys.


dennis@gort.sps.mot.com


Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look