From: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson)
Subject: Re: Immigrants and employment
Reply-To: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:15:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.054521.18258@jyu.fi>, ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.152441.10529@kth.se> tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE writes:
>>In article <TAIPALE.92Aug20144916@node_23d9f.kiloapo.tele.nokia.fi>, taipale@kiloapo.tele.nokia.fi (Pekka J Taipale) writes:
>>
>>[about Finland]
>>
>>>...after all, my country was under a colonial rule, first Swedish...
>>
>>Just a minor point: in the "Swedish days" Finland was the eastern part of
>>Sweden rather than a Swedish colony. You may think this is semantics, but
>>the relationship (present) Finland - (present) Sweden in those days 
>>wasn't all like e.g. India - Britain.
>
>Tomas Eriksson seem to have very peculiar but Swedish way of seeing
>things as an representant of an old colonial power which tries to give for the
>history her own explanation.

I do not intend to apologize for being Swedish, which by definition 
should make my way of viewing things a Swedish one. Although Sweden made 
some rather unsucessful attempts at becoming a colonial power, "we" 
can hardly be called a colonial power, neither "old" nor anythingh else.

>He does never probably will understand like an old colonial style Brit
> why those under such
>a brilliant administration did not were happy and satisfied and now complain.

(Well, that sentence need to be deciphered to make any kind of sense, but 
I'll try, even though I "does never probably will understand" everything 
Jarmo writes :-). I assume that those who "now complain" are the Finns.) 

Did I write that the administration was "brilliant"? I do claim, 
however, that the "Finland" part of Sweden was administrated in the same 
way as the "Sweden" part of Sweden (which wasn't true for the British 
administration of India, to take a truly colonial example.) Since what 
now is Finland hasn't been a part of Sweden since 1809, I'm surprised to 
hear that there are those who "now complain". I wasn't aware that there 
were anyone from those days still alive. Or is it perhaps Jarmo who is 
"now complaining"? What are you complaining about? Is the 15% 
unemployment in Finland because of things which happened pre-1809?

>Of course the Brits did not consider themselves as colonizators of India
>but "we were bringing civilisation there" so Swedes thinking about Finland
>600 years. So who decides who were colonialized or not,The Finns, the objects
>of the administration  or
>the colonial power, the Swedes.
>Swedish colonialation of Finland was a typical relationship between
>a colony and mainland.

Would you like to explain what kind of civilization existed in what is 
now called Finland before it became part of Sweden?

>Just compare:
>Education wes given in Swedish,

A wonderful language! "The language of Glory and Heroes" ("[rans och 
hj{ltarnas spr}k") as we sometimes call it... :-) You should be happy! :-)

>people were recruted into the Swedish army,

So? You would have preferred to have them recruited into the Prussian 
army instead? There never was a Finnish army, because Finland didn't 
exist. You could see it the other way around; the Swedish army defended 
"Finland". (Of course, from their point of view, they were defending 
Sweden.)

>taxation,

So? Are you implying that there was no taxation in Sweden? Can you name 
a kingdom were there was no taxation?

>areas in Finland werre given for the Swedish nobles
> "because they were owned by anybody",

No, areas in Sweden were given to Swedish nobles, including Swedish 
nobles from the eastern part of Sweden, which later came to be known as
Finland.

>people were given Swedish names,

Such as Jarmo Ryyti? :-)

>Church services were given in Swedish,

Or latin, if you go back to pre-Lutheran times. Why don't you complain 
about those colonial Latins instead...

>The administration worked in Swedish, administrators
>were send from Sweden,

No, they were mainly recruited locally.

>what is the different between India and Finland?

Well, to begin with, the spelling looks different to me. If you can't 
percieve any difference, I fear I won't be able to make you see.

>We should get compensation from Sweden like Africa, what you think?

No, of course you shouldn't. You have nothing to complain about.

Tomas

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic