HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phil@adam.adelaide.edu.au (Phil Kernick)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Bastard DM From Hell Pt 2
Date: 18 Aug 92 06:12:34 GMT
Organization: University of Adelaide, South Australia

ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:

>All realism aside, let's compare it to the world that this game is being
>played in.  In the standard D&D world, an entire suit of plate mail
>weighs 50 pounds.  I cannot believe that you expect anyone to believe that
>this book weighs 10 pounds more than a suit of plate mail, unless its pages
>are made of stone.

You have clearly not thought about this.

Firstly, although plate-mail is metal it is not solid.  It can be roughly
approximated to a hollow cylinder.  Athough it's enclosing volume is large,
the actually volume of metal is quite small.  So therefore although the
density of metal is high, the mass it not that large.

Secondly, before anyone else flames me, *GO*AND*TRY*IT*.  I got the 1992
Adelaide Yellow Pages, which measures 11"x9"x3" and weights 6lb.

The spellbook measures 24"x18"x6" and so has a volume of 8.73 times that
of the phone book, hence would weigh in at 8.73*6 = 52.4lb

As I have previously said it has a wooden cover on it that is about 1/3"
thick and a large metal lock.  Does anyone really believe that this would
not weigh 60lb.

The characters found it on a large pedestal (not in a bookshelf) and it did
not look as if it had been moved in a very long time (opened - yes,
transported - no).


Regs,
Phil.

-- 
   _-_|\    Phil Kernick                E-Mail: phil@adam.adelaide.edu.au
  /     \   Departmental Engineer       Phone:  +61 8 228 5914
  \_.-*_/   Dept. of Psychology         Fax:    +61 8 224 0464
       v    University of Adelaide      Mail:   GPO Box 498 Adelaide SA 5001
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: hutch@hutch (Stephen Hutchison)
Subject: Re: Bastard DM From Hell Pt 2
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 16:47:32 GMT

In article <4859@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.182616.3070@intelhf.hf.intel.com> hutch@hutch (Stephen Hutchison) writes:
>>I read this thread starting from the beginning - nothing seemed to set a max size
>>for this book.  However, recall that the "weight" of an object is often inflated
>
>	Then, pardon me for saying so, you didn't read the thread very 
>carefully at all.
>
>	The dimensions given in the original post were 2 feet by 1 foot
>six inches by six inches (or 2x1.5x.5) including cover.

Gee, thanks, Wasp.  Apparently the thread has been truncated or parts missing here.
Of course, it's always easier to flame than to simply provide information.
But I'll pardon you anyway (executioner, no need to chop off his thumbs THIS time).

BTW, very, uh, interesting, trim-job on the reply - DID you have anything
useful to say in response to my counter-arguments (loadstone feature, or
encumbrance-value-rather-than-just-weight)?  Not that it's important, since
the real problem is the BDMFH who was the start of the discussion, and not any
quibbles about minor symptoms of his BDMFH'ishness.

Hutch
From: a_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Multi-Class Hit Points
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:15:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Aug14.125957.19383@walter.cray.com>, bdavis@staccato.cray.com (Brent G Davis) writes:
>    Another method I have seen is to use a smaller sized dice for
> hp each time the character hits a higher level.  For example, use a
> d8 for a fighter/thief and roll only when the thief level advances
> (which hits the next level before the fighter).  This does away with
> the division/round-up or round-down dilemna.  This also makes it
> simple as far as applying CON bonus, which can be a bit of a grey 
> area for multi-class characters.

	The way I handled it, a character only rolled for hit points when their
major class (read as: the class requiring the most xps to advance) went up a
level. I used:
		(d1 + d2 + d3)/# classes + con bonus

where d1, d2, and d3 were the different hit dice for each of the classes. If
the character had a con of 17+, and one of his classes was that of fighter, 
then those extra HP were divided by the number of classes. I didn't round until
the end.

Brandon Cope
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Duncan Peter G. Thornton)
Subject: Tolkien (was: Re: Elven Chain Mail (Why?))
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:29:17 GMT

In <1992Aug21.214812.10085@honte.uleth.ca> proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca (Kintair of Hawkehaven MKA Bill Hately) writes:

>In article <matt.714425950@unidata.ucar.edu>, matt@unidata.ucar.edu 
>(Matt Hicks) writes:

>I don't think I'd go that far- I'd been reading Fantasy for more then 15 years
>and playing D&D for over 7 years before I got around to reading Tolkein - of
>course that could also be the reason I don't worship him the way some of you do
>either  (by the way I personally don't think HE is as great as everybody
>claims, but thats just my opinion)

That probably is the reason; context is important, and
people who read Tolkien after reading piles of genre
fantasy are at a disadvantage because Tolkien _isn't_
genre fantasy; it's literature. 

It's just like if you read _War and Peace_ after 15
years of reading supermarket sagas about the civil
war.

I'm not putting down genre fantasy when I say that a
lot of it is imitations of Tolkien. But the parts you
can imitate aren't the things that make Tolkien great.

- Duncan


__________________________________________________________________
Prolongs  |                                       |  Restores 
   *      |   E*L*E*C*T*R*I*C*I*T*Y I*S L*I*F*E!  |     *
 Life!    |                                       |   Health!
__________________________________________________________________
Duncan Thornton                           thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: alongley@cape.UWaterloo.ca (Allan Longley)
Subject: Re: The illogic of draining levels
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:23:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.181129.12171@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> jwwalden@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (P'relan) writes:

>Has anyone else ever thought that the ability of undead (and certain other
>creatures) to drain experience levels just didn't make any sense?  I could see
>perhaps some creature with the special ability to drain your memory and skills,
>but I don't see undead as doing that, especially when the ability is called
>energy draining.  So I modified the rules that energy draining attacks drained
>1-8 hit points, 1 strength point, and 1 constitution point per level of
>draining.

You're searching for a PHYSICAL (ie., material) effect of the attack of
powerful undead.  But, they're attack is also directed toward the spirit of
a creature (ie., their soul).  If you are "killed" by a vampire you are more
than dead, your soul is damed!!  Now, how do you go about simulating this
attack in AD&D, an attack that might not leave a single mark on the victim,
but has a pronounced effect -- I think that experience point draining is an
excellent idea.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan Longley, University of Waterloo, Department of Chemical Engineering
e-mail: alongley@cape.uwaterloo.ca
voice: (519) 885-1211 x3816		Having a cold reduces your strength
home: (519) 746-5747			and constitution -- big deal.     
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Subject: Re: High STR & small weapons (was: Re: Optional Specialization Ruling
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:59:47 GMT

What I've thought of doing is
a) The maximum damage that can be added due to strength and specialization
   with any weapon is equal to the maximum that the weapon can do counting
   only its magic (if any.) Thus, at most 5 points could be added to the damage
   done by a +1 dagger vs. man-sized creatures.
b) For thrown or missle weapons, reduce this maximum damage by 1 for each
   range class over point blank. So a dart thrown at short range may have
   at most 2 points added to its damage due to strength.
-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: kjetilgr@ifi.uio.no (Kjetil Granlien)
Subject: Psionic-problem 
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:26:12 GMT
Originator: kjetilgr@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no


 Recently my campaign purchased the psionic handbook.
And at once I, as a DM, and some of my players have trouble 
with the new Psionist.
I know there has been discussion about this before.. but I don't
think this particular matter ever was covered.

 My question is this:

What would you do if a psionist used (oh sh.. I forgot the name of the
power. let me describe it: you become almost like ethernalness.
That is a fog.. or cloud and you are able to pass through material as
if it didn't exist. You can take with you some pounds of equipment 
in the change as well. You know what I mean!?)
to kill people. The way he does it is he goes into his cloudlike state
and takes his sword with him. Then he sneaks(glides, floats) up on the 
monster(or npc or pc) and he puts his sword through the enemy's body(or head)
and then he goes back to normal form. The sword which is now solid is 
potruding from it's victims head or body.. Death follows quite naturally.

What I have ruled from time to time, is that the cloud has been noticed 
before getting within range. The Psionist won't be able to hit anything 
with a sword as solid as a cloud. Of course he can't be hit either.

What bothers me is that this state of being is a TOTAL defense.
It is not like ethernalness where one oponents can hurt you if it is
on the same plane.

What may hurt this cloud??

As a thought, I'd say that this power was made to allow a psionist to pass
through walls or doors, not as a combat-power.

When I'm writing about this.. What can stop a psionist in this state from 
passing through a wall or door??

Enough questions for now.. 

Kjetil Granlien
---
 "Overhead the albatross hangs motionless upon the air
  And deep beneath the rolling waves
  In labyrinth of coral caves
  The echoes of a distant time comes willowing across the sand.."
						PinkFloyd, Echoes
---



Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: mxr@neptune.dsc.com (Max "Disheveled Paradox" Rible)
Subject: Re: Tarresque - Anyone killed one?
Organization: Digital Sound Corporation
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:18:41 GMT

mikew@mdcbbs.com (Mike 'the Bard' Whitaker) writes:
>>u894793@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Timothy D Little) writes:
>>>I'm interested in knowing if anyone has ever actually killed a Tarresque in a
>>>non-Monty Haul campaign.  Any stories?

>                               the elven archer in the party heaved a 
>mighty sigh and pulled out her once in a lifetime gift from Correllan 
>Larethian, a one use arrow of slaying anything once she'd touched it.
...
>                                She managed not to lose an arm getting a 
>touch on the tarrasque, and then dropped back, sent up a quick prayer and 
>fired....

>It fell over... 

>Whether it was REALLY dead or not, the party weren't about to speculate on, so
>the druid deposited it under a very deep rock to mud spell, and they carried 
>on, fingers crossed.

>It's been a hundred and twenty game years...

>I think it's about time it woke again...

This would imply the tarrasque is a divine being itself.  If Corellon
Larethian--- head of the elvish pantheon and being an archer himself---
declares an arrow will be able to kill anything, it will kill (not
render dormant) anything that is capable of being dead.  If the 
tarrasque is going to wake up again, that means that either (a)
Corellon Larethian isn't that powerful or (b) that the tarrasque is
a mythic monster on the level of some sort of god in its own right.
Be careful when cheapening gifts from deities; news of this could
seriously undermine the faith of the religion when it turns out that
Corellon's power couldn't slay a creature that can be taken out by
mortals.  Any normal person enchanting an Arrow of Tarrasque Slaying
would have to back up a hit with a Wish, but a god isn't limited by
that.
/-------------v-----------------------v---------------------------------------\
| Max Rible   | mxr@dsc.com           | "Powerful big rats, gentlemen."       |
|             | rible@vorpal.ucsb.edu |                         - Neil Gaiman |
\-------------^-----------------------^---------------------------------------/
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: bdavis@cray.com (Brent G Davis)
Subject: Re: A really neat character!
Organization: Cray Research Inc., Chippewa Falls, WI
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:27:59 CDT

One of my most interesting characters was a neutral fighter with one
big problem: sleepwalking.  Soon after he joined up with the party
they discovered that he would wander off in the night babbling and
waving his hands incoherently.  This provided plenty of problems
(a REAL WANDERING ENCOUNTER!) for both the character and the party.

Eventually the DM came up with a reason for it which led to a series
of adventures to cure the character of his sleepwalking.  It turned out
that the fighter was actually the son of an evil mage who had sold his
soul (the fighter) for eternal life.  Thus, the fighter was cursed
and the only way to escape from this was to become an evil mage too.

This was OK since the party was a mix of neutral/evil characters in
an evil country.  The role-playing opportunity was top-notch, and I
must admit this was one of the most fun characters to play.  He wanted
to be neutral, but was destined to be evil - a great psychological
dilemna to play out in AD&D.


Brent
-- 
 /  bdavis@romulus.cray.com     Cray Research Inc.    Chippewa Falls, WI  \
(  Just another Engineer/Musician/AD&D'er multiclass with Internet access  )
 \ "I`m a zombie in the a.m., when it's just too early to wake the dead." /
From: pcalvert@economics.adelaide.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Paladins
Date: 18 Aug 92 00:26:05 GMT
Organization: Economics, University of Adelaide

In article <1992Aug16.204249.10357@wam.umd.edu>, spanky@next13epsl.wam.umd.edu (Mephistopheles (The Devil)) writes:
> 
>    Has anyone ever seen a well played Paladin?  I know it's a tough class to
> even qualify for, and then players go and spoil it by playing Paladins as
> borderline evil.  
[examples deleted]
>                                                          Well, I'd like to
> hear about some other Paladins, well played or not, to see if the class is
> really as hard to play as it seems.
> 
> --JLW

I'm currently DMing and one of my NPCs thats with the party is a paladin, but
she comes from my playing days.

I find that paladins are easier to play when the party respects them, rather
than treating them as a trumped up fighter that has prot from evil, being 
able to turn undead and can cure a bit too.
I don't focus too heavily on the religious side, that's the cleric's job, but
if the paladin and the cleric (provided LG) work together you can have a 
formidable combination.
A useful tool I've used (and continue to use) is to have the church 'quest'
her and let it be a quest that involves the party. If the party is chaotic
or evil, (which will obviously not help in achieving the goal) then she is
quite entitled to take things into her own hands.
This helps tie my hands as a DM (using her as an NPC) while still allowing
her the freedom to act decisively.
I encourage 'role-playing' rather than 'roll-playing' in our group and when 
a party member is faced down by a LG cleric and paladin, and there are no
other cures in sight, they acquiesce to obedience pretty darn quick :)
(BTW, the cleric is a PC, not an NPC and she is also played *very* well
 {I reward good role-playing with more xps and since she is a cleric that
  has a focus towards curing people, I give +1hp to cure spells when role-
  playing well})
					my $0.02 worth
							...sage
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Tarresque - Anyone killed one?
Originator: kjenks@gothamcity
Keywords: magic resistance
Organization: NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 06:22:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.165601.4759@mcs.kent.edu> adray@Chaos.mcs.kent.edu (Adam Dray) writes:
>Though I haven't looked at the stats in a while (how often do you use
>a terrasque, anyway?) I think it (frequency: unique?) has a great deal
>of magic resistance.
>
>Spells and magic items are of little use against the terrasque.

Perhaps you should review the rules on magic resistance.  Most magic
items are not affected by magic resistance; only spells are.  Magic
items which cast spells would be affected, but not, say, a magical
sword.  Read the section in front of the Monster Manual (1) (AD&D1).
It mentions only spells.

Adam:
>Just look at the damn thing.  It's a big joke really.  Some frustrated
>DM got sick of munchkin PCs running around killing everything, so he
>invented the ravenous terrasque.  It's nigh invincible.  How many PCs
>have a _wish_ available to finish it off?

Some people are afraid of high power levels in AD&D.  Some think that
role-playing suffers if the characters have several magic items apiece,
and fight against incredible odds -- and win.  I think fun, interaction
and imagination are the reasons we play this stupid game.  In my
experience, players have more fun when they have a few magic items than
when they have none.  There are limits, of course, but each DM
determines those limits in his games.  If a game is too easy, it's no
fun.  If it's too difficult, it's no fun.  The I Ching says, "In all
things, there is a balance."

No matter how "Monty Haul" or "munchkin" a character or a game may
seem to be, if the DM and the players have found a balance where they
have fun, that's great.  If a DM has powerful characters in his 
campaign, he may need the occasional REALLY POWERFUL monster.

Any group of characters who have been through the Giant Series, G1-G3,
should have several Wishes available.

Monty Haul.  Don't knock it unless you've tried it.

-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
      kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov  (713) 483-4368

      "Orcs appear particularly disgusting because their
       coloration -- brown or brownish-green with a bluish sheen
       -- highlights their pinkish snouts and ears.  Their
       bristly hair is dark brown or black, sometimes with tan
       patches."
         -- AD&D Monster Manual 1, p. 76.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca (Kintair of Hawkehaven MKA Bill Hately)
Subject: Dwarf Paladin
Reply-To: proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:10:45 GMT

Hello People, just a little humour for you
We've been running a campaign that has a tendency to get us killed on a regular
basis (we average one character every other session or so), anyway we had a new
guy join up, and we were all in a humourous mood so when he said gee I like
dwarves and then But I want to be a Paladin we said well why not and set about
creating the proper weapons for a Dwarf Paladin - The Battle axe and Hammer of
course, since He wouldn't be able to use some of the other famous weapons. 
Anyway the next session one of the other players (a good guy but a little
touchy about rules) stated that he (and his character) would be leaving the
party if we allowed the Dwarf Paladin to stay.  Well we thought about it for a
while (the new guy couldn't make it that day so we left the Paladin to find his
mount (He got a Hippogriff (sp) - could be interesting)) anyway at the next
session the first guy was missing again (busy schedule) we talked about it for
a while wondering how to satisfy both of them and our curiosity as well, 
 and then the new guy goes - but he didn't start out as a dwarf - he started
out human - and was killed at first level - he was reincarnated as a dwarf -
but prayed real hard and was able to retain his Paladinhood.  Who knows maybe
this'll satisfy the Other player - could be a moot point by next session anyway
- The dwarf lost his armour to a rust monster this session (Thought It was a
Dinousaur - damned Illusions (and 1's))
Bill
ps I play a Female Fighter (7th level) (9th Level Thief - Dual Class can almost
start using her thieving abilities again) in this campaign (You get a real
different perspective about all those casual comments you toss around when you
are trying to role play a character of the opposite sex - especially when one
or two of the players are a bit loose with their characters mouths)  I think
I've played almost as many Female characters as Male since I started by the way

Kintair of Hawkehaven          | Bill Hately   | Talk (403) 381-1741
Shire of Windwyrm              | Lethbridge AB | proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca
Crown Principality of Avacal   | Canada        | Smile Dammit
An Tir (I wouldn't dream of subjecting any corp. or Educational Institution to
        these opinions, so they certainly aren't the opinions of the UofL)
  (And I'm not an officer of the SCA so I can't have an official opinion There
              - even if I wanted to )
Life is a Sexually Transmitted Terminal Condition
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: gregs@meaddata.com (Greg Smith)
Subject: Re: Anti-paladins
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:46:03 GMT

In article <5004@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug20.214004.7276@wam.umd.edu> spanky@wam.umd.edu (Mephistopheles (The Devil)) writes:
|> >Anti-Paladin?!?  What the heck is that?  There is no way to explain an
|> >anti-paladin without pissing off anyonw who plays a paladin.  How does a
|> >Paladin gain his extraordinary abilities?  Discipline, devotion to higher
|> >principles than everyone else. 

Or lower in the case of evil (esp. CE) Paladins, or Anti-Paladins.

|> 
|> 	I guess it depends on what you say a Paladin does. I say that a Paladin
|> gets his/her extraordinary abilities because the DEITY HE SERVES GIVES HIM
|> those powers. He gets them because he DOES WHAT HIS DEITY  WANTS DONE very
|> well, faithfully, and probably with a complete fanaticism.

Very correct.

|> 
|> >provocation, etc...  The Anti-Paladin, on the other hand, acts as he or
|> >she pleases, slaying without any care whatsoever, stealing, etc...  Where's
|> >the difficulty in that?  Where's the hardship he or she goes through to earn
|> >the special powers?

Imagine a CE anti-paladin.  Pure evil.  Worships a god of Chaos.  
Now imagine this anti-paladin in a "good" city.  It should be very hard
(maybe impossible) for the anti-paladin to maintain a low profile in the
city.  He or she should be doing things to cause lots of mahem and 
generally draw the attention of powerful good forces that would certainly
try and do away with this anti-paladin.

This class my be best left for an NPC class, but that's really up to the
DM.  It's also up to the DM that allows the class for players to make sure
there are disadvantages to go along with the advantages.  (I.e. being hounded
by some powerful LG Paladin that wants to rub him/her out.)

|> 
|> 	No hardship. Their powers are coming from a god that LIKES these 
|> kind of things and promotes them, and because these Anti-Ps are soooooo
|> good at doing them and serve this deity of darkness well and faithfully
|> the deity rewards them with these powers.
|> 
|> 	Obviously in my campaign I have Paladins ("Holy Warriors" "Saints"
|> "Champions" etc.) of all alignments and gods, and often with different
|> powers depending on the god...
|> 
|> 
|>                                  Sea Wasp
|>                                    /^\
|>                                    ;;;

-- 
Greg Smith

DISCLAIMER:  My ideas are entirely my own unless MDC decides to patent them.
I am not empowered to speak for Mead Data Central or Mead Corporation.