HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tucker@mitre.org (William Tucker)
Subject: EVIL too
Keywords: EVIL too
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, USA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:05:21 GMT



Following is an E Mail message that I wrote to Gerald Del Campo in
May that bounced, that I hope will clarify my position some.


You (Gerald Del Campo) wrote:

 Again, the Universe is not a conscious biblical judge... it's only
 understanding is existance.  It is not in any way motivated by terms like
 "good and evil".  Evil is inbalance.


I ( William Tucker ) wrote 


 I personally prefer the term distortion, because the very act of .....
 causes some sort of balance to occur as all you are doing is ruffling
 the fabric of reality. You're not so much creating as changing, or is it
 that change is the only creation we can do here? There is personal 
 distortion, social distortion, or on a musical instrument - dischordance ...
 etc. Sound comes most strongly from a pure, integrated, harmonically
 balanced instrument. Will as an expression of your aligment with 
 your true self, is the same. Awareness or "being" is the act of tuning, 
 "doing" the act of willing.

 In response to your statement about imbalance, I suppose if you mean 
 being balanced implies lack of movement outside of intent then I'd agree. 

 As an aside the main point to all of this is that distortion is a real 
 thing that can't be dealt with by ignoring it. Not because it's bad, 
 but because you can't play the instrument of self, as easily or well 
 if your fiddle has a twisted neck. For example, if you can "see," a 
 lie causes a ripple of distortion to flow through the liars body, and
 quite frankly it looks ugly. Lying isn't bad per se it's the  
 twistedness, and losing of tune so to speak that it does to you 
 when you do it. "Singing truly," speaks to the souls of others, the
 power of resonance is immense in a living universe. 

 Just my opinion. Ciao.

 Wm T.


.standard disclaimer
   
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: maupt@warwick.ac.uk (Maupt the Ninja...)
Subject: aura goggles
Organization: Computing Services, Warwick University, UK
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:37:56 GMT


how effective are aura goggles? can anyone use them without developing any
form of sight to detect auras?
-Ninja
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Email : maupt@uk.ac.warwick.csv                                             |
|Snail : Darren Yap,The Maths. Institute,Warwick University,Coventry,CV4 7AL.|
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: READ THIS! New Castaneda group book!
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:39:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep30.164649.7870@zooid.guild.org>, Adam Lawrence Salter <adam@zooid.guild.org> writes...
> 
> 
>  Heyoo! There is a new book by someone from Castaneda and Don Juan's group!
>It is from a woman named Taisha Abelar, there is an interview with her about
>it in the Canadian Magazine, Dimensions (Vol. VII, No. 9, 1992). According to
>her in this article, Don Juan's line has ended and "there are no more
>apprentices, so to speak". She also says:

I heard about it.  Some book catalogs seem to have it filed under 
Castaneda's name too, giving the impression that he wrote it.  At 
most, maybe he wrote an introduction.  Its approx. $22, which I 
wouldn't pay even if CC did write it.  I'm waiting for it to come 
out in paperback, and then if it looks good I might buy it.

>  The book is called _The Sorcerer's Crossing_. Which brings me to my ulterior
>motive, I have called a _The World's Biggest Bookstore_ here in Toronto,
>Ontario (CANADA;->) and they said they got a bunch of hardcover copies in on
>the 8th but they sold out and may not get more for 1-2 months. So, does anyone
>here know anywhere that it is sold or available for order? If it's sold then
>it would have to be in Ontario, obviously, for me to buy it.

If you feel like taking a little drive, The Village Green 
Bookstore at 2309 Eggert Rd. Tonawanda, NY told me that orders 
could be filled in 1-2 weeks.  Their number is (716)836-8960.  
(They are one block away from Niagara Falls Blvd, about 1/2 mile 
from where NF Blvd. enters the city of Buffalo.)

 >  Other things some may find interesting, Florinda Donner, another in
>Castaneda's group brought out a book in 1991 called "Being in Dreaming" that
>has encounters with Don Juan, Castaneda, Genaro, etc.

Hadn't hear of that one.  What's this about CC's group?  He as 

>  I don't know if I should just advertise this, but there are tape recordings
>of an interview with Castaneda from 1968 available from an audio book company.
>E-Mail me for details, if interested.
> 

I'm sure my brother would be interested in this, so please send 
me some information.  (Since he's in Puerto Rico and has a hard 
time getting materials, I usually order his stuff and mail it to 
him.)

                                                      Adam Salter
> 
>adam@zooid.guild.org

Thanks!

- Peggy -
Xref: sparky alt.magick:4951 alt.pagan:10239
From: key@soda.berkeley.edu (peter li'ir key)
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Seeking Creator of "Practice Random Kindness"
Date: 30 Sep 1992 01:38:45 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: random kindness, guerrilla goodness, deep thoughts, Marin

In article <BvCD5G.3wx@acsu.buffalo.edu> 
	oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
)This has nothing to do with magick.
... [repeats omitted]
)This has nothing to do with magick.
)
)I'm sure you can find a more appropriate group.
)
)- Peggy -
)

proof by repetition.  how trite.
don't insult my intelligence.  i know how to think
for myself.  i do not need someone i do not
respect telling me what is or is not magick.

i think the post had everything to do with magick.
from all appearances "practice random kindness and
senseless acts of beauty" has had more affect than
any magick i've ever heard of.  alt.magick and
alt.pagan seem to me to be the perfect places for
this wonderful idea.

as i wrote in response to josh geller, i think love
and kindness are the greatest magicks in the world.

peter li'ir key, who believes in the power of love
key@soda.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan,alt.religion.all-worlds
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: One Short Black to Go, Please
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 09:32:53 +0000

u9135979@cc.uow.edu.au (paul burke) writes...


>        My main question is: Has anyone looked at the ceremonial life
>        of the Australian Aborigines as a possible source for
>        alt.magick rituals ? They have the longest continual social
>        structure in the world,as far as I know. Most of their
>        knowledge died with them but digging through the old
>        ethnographic material can give some insight into their
>        practices. Be warned that Aboriginal magick is the most
>        powerful I have come across in my reading......not for the
>        faint hearted or those after personal glory. As I hadn't read
>        anything on Koori rituals in the directory I thought it was
>        worth a mention.

I would be most interested in anything you can post on this:
Australian aboriginal culture appears to have a RADICALLY different
view of the world. If there is anything that you can discover -
please share it....



>                        Yours Sincerely
>                        Paul.


Leo



Xref: sparky alt.magick:4892 alt.pagan:10098 alt.religion.all-worlds:69
From: GECKO <gecko@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: EVIL!
Reply-To: GECKO <gecko@zooid.guild.org>
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:03:24 GMT


    Here's a thought:

   "Of course, there is a dark side to us.  We kill wantonly, don't we?
    We burn people in the name of God.  We destroy ourselves; we obliterate
    life on this planet; we destroy the earth.  And then we dress in robes
    and the Lord speaks directly to us.  And what does the Lord tell us?
    He says we should be good boys or he is going to punish us.  The Lord
    has been threatening us for centuries and it doesn't make any difference.
    Not because we are evil, but because we are dumb.  Man has a dark side,
    yes, and it's called stupidity."
                                        - Don Juan Matus

                 

                        - GECKO


gecko@zooid.guild.org
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: This post composed before a live studio audience
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:51:41 GMT

crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes:
: 
: An account of his unusual ability was written by Dr. Jule Eisenbud, a
: Denver psychiatrist who studied Ted for a number of years. It's entitled
: *The World of Ted Serios*.  It also includes copies of a number of
: photographs Ted did (at that time) which are very interesting. The *piece
: of film in the gizmo* (a small cardboard tube) theory would not explain
: how Ted could produce different images at one session, some of them
: suggested on the spot.

Certainly, it would. He would always ask the audience for suggestions. It  
is easy to pretend to hear someone ask for the desired image, then produce
it. That is a very old, stage magician's trick. When presented right, you
will have about 1/3rd of the audience believing that they personally asked
for that image.

Bill

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: cward@Think.COM (Christopher)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Flaming.
Date: 28 Sep 1992 18:04:40 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: godot.think.com

In article <JOSHUA.92Sep26150101@dharma.cpac.washington.edu>, joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
|> interestingly, if you look at amanda's and my posts when we reply to the
|> same person (which happens with some frequency), hers are often much more
|> critical than mine. it's just that she's so nice and courteous (and the
|> person the posts directed at often so dense) that it just doesn't pen-
|> etrate as criticism. pity.
|> 
|> josh

It's the difference between telling someone they are an immature moron and
suggesting if they study more and gain experience, they will be able to
resolve their dilema.  

Sure we have sleepwalkers wander in here.  One could tap them on the shoulder
to wake them up or hit 'em with a bucket of cold water.  Seems your cold
water approach is not appreciated by all.

	-Christopher
From: tucker@mitre.org (William Tucker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Letter from a sorcerer
Keywords: Re: Letter from a sorcerer
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:55:30 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, USA




Edward M. Averett writes:

>Oh, I don't find the warping odd or terrifying at all. If we ever had occasion
>to meet, I'd be happy to talk to him about it. .



You (Colin Low) write:

You have an audience. I wasn't completely certain of the state he describes,
as there is a tendency to relate to the terror at the expense of other
details, but I interpreted what Robert was experiencing in terms of something
I would describe using Casteneda's language as "the moment immediately
prior to breaking the barrier of perception".

If you could clarify what was going on, that would be most useful and
interesting.

Cheers,
Colin


I (William Tucker) think:

I'd like to hear too. I wanted to say that earlier but I lost your post, 
monsieur E. Averett, please proceeed. As an aside to Bill Eichmann, in additiion
to Peggy's brother stuff, I consider your's to be the real thing too, much is
familiar.


Wm T.


.standard disclaimer
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: jv@irus.rri.uwo.ca (Jeffrey Verhagen)
Subject: Pentacle Symbols
Organization: none
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:33:08 GMT

Hello,

I am just curious about some of the figures incorporated into
the pentacles in the (I believe) Grand Grimoire of Solomon. The
pentacles I am referring to typically take the form of four
lines in a circle intersecting in the center, with symbols tacked 
onto each of the 8 ends. While some of these symbols are of 
obvious Geomantic origin, there are a few that I am unable to 
trace to other occult sources. I am also curious as to the scheme 
used to determine which symbols should be preferrable over others 
for incorporation into a particular line on the pentacle.

Thus, my questions are:
- what are the other origins of these planetary symbols?
- what determines the positioning of these symbols (seeing as how
  they all relate to the same planet)?

Jeff...
From: cward@Think.COM (Christopher)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: EVIL
Date: 30 Sep 1992 20:22:44 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: godot.think.com
Keywords: EVIL

I have a much shorter definition which is probably a quote from someone
else (otherwise I'll claim it as original).

	Evil invades, God invites.


	In L.V.X.,
	Christopher

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: 2nd Merlin Tarot Workshop
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
	<JOSHUA.92Sep30143103@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>
	<1992Oct1.170330.5415@gdr.bath.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:18:14 GMT


In article <1992Oct1.170330.5415@gdr.bath.ac.uk> mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D 
Burdorf) writes:

>In the referenced article, joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:

>>In article <1992Sep30.171847.5383@gdr.bath.ac.uk> mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D >>Burdorf) writes:

>>>   Could it be that he doesn't have good answers for some of your 
>>>   questions?

>   >can you think of another reason? did he give another reason?

>   No.  He didn't even mention that he got my letter, but I slipped
>   it under his door, so he had to.  It was like this classical
>   British way of avoiding unpleasent situations by pretending
>   that it never happened.  He just pretended that he never got
>   my letter.  Pretty wierd.

pretty cowardly. I'd be curious as to what his reaction would be if you
confronted him.

josh
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: rcormac@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Cormac (Xbattle -rcormac) Russell)
Subject: Re: Cat.Magick, a Sekhmet Production
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 04:55:04 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

LurkerCat: :) HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
That made me happy (yay for good endings to stressful days!)
Blessed Be,
   Cormac
--
Retch The Grate aka Cormac Russell    Amiga, The Computer for The Creative Mind
                      rcormac@occs.cs.oberlin.edu           
Vote Libertarian in 92! Marrou/Lord!
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Crowley Books @ Slopoke
Date: 26 Sep 92 11:21:05 GMT
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science



Name:    slopoke.mlb.semi.harris.com
Address:  132.158.82.36
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 1992 23:25:57 -0400 
From: Kendrick Kerwin Chua <kendrick+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Enki (was re: Necronomicon
	<BvGq4A.EK6@ddsw1.mcs.com>

To repeat and clarify: my statement was a joke.  You don't often meet
people whose handles have origins in your religion.

I am intimately familiar with the Sumerian mythology and I do know the
differences between the different versions where either the trinity of
Sumerian Gods (Anu, Enlil, Enki) or Marduk is responsible for bringing
order from chaos. 

Colin's treatise on the N-con has it's good and bad points.  But for him
to exclusively be the "authority" contradicts much of the free choice
and free thinking that is the foundation of a board where people are
actually open minded enough to talk about magic.  Let's keep it that way.

Please, let's put the N-con issue to rest.  I and others have had enough
of Alhazred-flambeau. 

It's much like family values.  We can't come to a definite idea of what
it is or even if it exists, so what's the point in talking about it?

Kendrick Kerwin Chua

kc3u+@andrew.cmu.edu    or
kendrick+@CMU.EDU

Cthulhu for President, 1992!
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan the Witchling)
Subject: Re: alt.magick con
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 01:09:45 GMT

In article <Bv73EH.7nF@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
>cipher@lacerta.unm.edu (Rev. J. B. Bell) writes:
>
>>Along these lines, I'd like to propose a alt.magick.con.  I think
>
>As for locations, Urbana, Illinois is fairly central in the US.  And it's 
>awfully convenient for me. :-)
>
>
>              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
>                               Br'anArthur
>
>Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
>
>******************************************************************************
>Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
>it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
>                                   --Jon Jay Obermark


Me too!  (I'm just 2 hours east of uiuc.  :> )

My vote's for uiuc.

--
dart
Xref: sparky alt.magick:5033 alt.pagan:10456 alt.religion.all-worlds:85
From: jittlov@gumby.cs.caltech.edu (Mike Jittlov)
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan,alt.religion.all-worlds
Subject: Re: Seeking Creator of "Practice Random Kindness"
Date: 2 Oct 1992 09:48:04 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: gumby.cs.caltech.edu
Keywords: random kindness, guerrilla goodness, deep thoughts, Marin

joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au (Joshua Geller) writes:

>+				PRACTICE
>+			    RANDOM VIOLENCE
>+				  AND
>+		       SENSELESS ACTS OF STUPIDITY

>+   Her own fantasies include:  (1) breaking into depressing-looking
>+   schools to vandalize the classrooms, (2) leaving hot, poisoned meals
>+   on kitchen tables in the poor parts of town, (3) slipping a running
>+   time bomb into a proud old woman's purse.  Says Herbert, "violence can
>+   build on itself as much as violence can."

>+   In Portland, Oregon, a man might plunk an ounce of sugar into a stranger's
>+   gastank just in time.  In Patterson, New Jersey, a dozen people with
>+   bricks and ball bats and stocking masks might descend on a run-down house
>+   and destroy  it from top to bottom while the frail elderly owners look
>+   on, dazed and smiling.  In Chicago, a teenage boy may be pouring herbicide

>+   Boston writes "Die, you ugly bitch!" to the tellers on the back of her
>+   checks.  A man in St. Louis, who has just  rear-ended  the car of
>+   a young woman, drives away, saying, "It's a scratch. And I'm in the
>+   Mafia, and these are stolen plates. So don't worry, if you know what's
>+   good for you."

>+   service and roams the concrete hills killing people who are too
>+   stupid to live.  In Atlanta, a man scrubs the flesh from the faces
>+   of small children with a brillo pad.


Touche'.  

And wow.  Sounds just like my neighborhood (where the Center for Nonviolence
is appropriately, necessarily located).  You can actually tell what time it
is, here in the Rampart-Silverlake section of Los Angeles, by counting the
gunshots, and subtracting two.  If only the people here could see the humor
in their lives - it's so easy to transform reality by just making it funny.

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Subject: Re: alt.magick con
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:34:24 GMT

In article <66756@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:
>I see two options.  We could make it equally easy for all (by choosing a
>central location) OR equally DIFFICULT for all (by choosing a location
>which is difficult for EVERYONE to get to.  
>
>India?  Pakistan?   China?    Mt. McKinley?    Moon?   ;>  
>
How about the North or South Pole?  Or a small uncharted island in the Pacific?

-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
From: ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: alt.magick con
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:47:13 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

In article <83950146@otter.hpl.hp.com> cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low) writes:
>B.A. Davis-Howe writes:
>
>What about the U.K. contingent? Why not base the con in the spiritual
>home of magick? We could offer the following tour attractions:

     The nice thing about Britain is that there are so many sites
worth a visit. Here's a couple comments on your list:

>     - a visit to the secret chamber under Glastonbury Tor as described
>       by Dion Fortune in "Avalon of the Heart".

     Don't forget Glastonbury Abbey, and both Cadbury Castle and Wells
Cathedral are just a half-hour by car. I won't even start on Wales...

>     - a guided tour of Dee's magical implements in the British Museum,
>       plus a personal opportunity to scry in the the very same black
>       Aztec mirror as Edward Kelly. See the original Sigillum Dei Aemeth.

    Last time I was there, the mirror was in a glass case, and
positioned so that it was not difficult to see your own face in it.

>     - an opportunity to experience sunrise at Stonehenge on mid-summer's
>       day, with an honour guard of several hundred police to ensure
>       your privacy.

    Stonehenge is far too crowded, touristy, and guarded. Salisbury
Plain has tons of other sites (just get the Ordnance Survey map).
Particular favorites are Avebury, Old Sarum, and Silbury Hill.

>     - meet a member of the "Societas Rosicruiana in Anglia" (it still
>       exists). Walk around Mark Mason's Hall.

     Don't know about "Mark Mason's Hall", but the Grand Lodge of
Masons offers guided tours, 6 days a week. It's worth it.

>     - and much, much more.

     White Horse of Uffington, Waylands Smithy, Cerne Abbas, etc.
there's plenty.

							Peter Trei
From: cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 21:51:50 GMT
Subject: Re: alt.magick con
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: alt.magick

B.A. Davis-Howe writes:

>Well, do you mean a con at a hotel, or what?  How many people are you
>envisioning?  
>
>As for locations, Urbana, Illinois is fairly central in the US.  And it's 
>awfully convenient for me. :-)

What about the U.K. contingent? Why not base the con in the spiritual
home of magick? We could offer the following tour attractions:
  
     - a visit to the secret chamber under Glastonbury Tor as described
       by Dion Fortune in "Avalon of the Heart".

     - a trip to the Brighton crematorium where Louis Wilkinson read
       "The Hymn to Pan" on December 5th. 1947.

     - a guided tour of Dee's magical implements in the British Museum,
       plus a personal opportunity to scry in the the very same black
       Aztec mirror as Edward Kelly. See the original Sigillum Dei Aemeth.

     - an opportunity to experience sunrise at Stonehenge on mid-summer's
       day, with an honour guard of several hundred police to ensure
       your privacy.

     - see a turn-of-the-century catalogue from	 the Bodleian Library with
       a catalogue entry for the N..........

     - spend a night in the haunted flat at 67 & 69 Chancery Lane where
       Crowley's Abra-Melin demon's marched around in a semi-tangible
       state.

     - meet a member of the "Societas Rosicruiana in Anglia" (it still
       exists). Walk around Mark Mason's Hall.

     - and much, much more.

This Urbana, Illinois, that you mention.....does it have any pyramids or
things like that?

Colin.