HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cbarber@bbn.com (Chris Barber)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Schimmel piano
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:33:59 GMT
Organization: BBN Systems and Technology, Inc.

In article <2976@mitisft.Convergent.COM> dtt@mitisft.Convergent.COM 
(Duc Tran) writes:
[ questions about what grand piano to buy for upto 20K... ]

I don't have any direct comments about Schimmels, but I do have
some general advice about buying pianos:

   1) Don't ever buy a new piano. You only end up spending a lot
      of extra money for the dubious privilege of having to spend
      a couple of years breaking it in to see what it will really
      sound like. Look for a used piano that is at least a couple
      of years old and has had some time to develop a mature sound.

   2) Don't spend 20k on *anything* that you are not totally in love
      with. If you aren't crazy about the piano, don't buy it, no
      matter how many experts tell you it is a good buy. I presume
      you are buying this to play and not as an investment, so you
      should get something you like. I had an oppurtunity to play
      Horowitz's famous 9' concert Steinway, but didn't particularly
      like it. Just because someone else likes it doesn't mean you
      will.

   2a) Don't buy a piano you haven't personally played.

   3) Don't tie yourself to buying a 7' footer. I bought an incredible
      6' Steinway model L a year ago, and I rather doubt that I will
      ever want to trade it in.  It was a Steinway artist piano for 10
      years before I bought it and was obviously very well taken care
      of during that time. I got it for 20k and feel that I have gotten
      my money's worth (this model listed for 28k new at the time). To
      emphasize the above points, I should also say that prior to getting
      this piano, I had tried many new and used Steinway L's that I just
      did not like at all.

   4) Good models to look at (besides Schimmel):

      Steinway models L and B
      Falcone 7' (these may no longer be available since Falcone was bought
                  out by Mason & Hamlin)
      Bechstein

       You might also look at the new Mason & Hamlin. They supposedly
       have reverted to their 1920's design which most people agree is
       superior. Of course, you won't be able to find many used pianos
       of the new model....

       I personally dislike Baldwins because I don't like the action and
       the tone is too bright for my taste.

Good luck!


-- 
Christopher Barber
(cbarber@bbn.com)
From: maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Messiaen recommendations?
Date: 5 Nov 1992 18:03:35 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fir.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <Bx8wo1.DCF@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
|> 
|> My first recommendation for a Messiaen work wouldn't be either of these,
|> but "Et Exspecto Resurrectionem Mortuorum", a 30-minute sorta-symphony for
|> winds and percussion.

Yes.  Also, before either of these, I would
recommend the _Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant-Jesus_,
for piano solo.  Of these, perhaps #13 the most:
crystal-perfect, as somebody said.

	Vance
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Best recording of "1812 Overture"?
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:26:44 GMT

In article <chiu-051192100848@222.8.248.8> chiu@gpb-mac.sps.mot.com (Norman Chiu) writes:
>Hi Everyone:
>    I am looking for the best CD (in terms of recording and performance)
>of the "1812 Overture" by Tchaikovsky.  Can anyone recommend one?

Best performance is surely the 1940 Concertgebouw/Mengelberg on
Teldec. He's the only conductor who actually makes it sound like
*music*. As for recording, who knows? (And who cares?)

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Questions
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:18:15 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <Bx59nn.LCx@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, reidkb@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Kenneth B Reid) writes:
> (1) Why is classical music cheaper than any other kind?. The average cost of a
> rock C.D. is about 13 pounds here while it is not uncommom for a classical
> C.D. to cost 8 or 9.

More than one group records most pieces; many people buy the cheapest version
rather than the best, so it pays to have cheap versions. There are also no
classical `superstars' who want 10% of record sales.
> 
> (2) Who owns classical music?  I mean who owns the rights to it, is there some
> form of copyright or can any bunch of musicians plunder anything they want? Or
> do the distant relatives of Bach get 1 cent each?

In England and Wales (things may be slightly different north of the border)
copyright for the actual *music* (the notes) is allocated on the same basis as
the copyright for novels. (I think it's 50 years after the composer's death
before the work is in the public domain.) So Benjamin Britten's music is still
in copyright (died 1976 or thereabouts) but JS Bach's is not. As for the
score, that's in copyright for 50 years or so after publication.
> 
> (3) You all seem to refer to Mussorgksy's composition as 'A Night on Bald 
> Mountain'. I've got this piece of music on 3 CD's and they all refer to it as
> 'A Night On The Bare Mountain' can anyone explain this? 

You live in Britain. When the title was translated into English, some American
decided that the `Bare Mountain' was decidedly obscene but the `Bald Mountain'
was suitably middle-class and respectable. Hence the difference.

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
From: givler@bermuda.cbm.commodore.com (Greg Givler)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: STRAVINSKY
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:30:39 GMT
Organization: Another Amiga UNIX System

In article <dgold.0rrp@basso.actrix.gen.nz> dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz (Dale Gold) writes:
>Quoted from <LYVSBWG4@cc.swarthmore.edu> by rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu> (Rob Brooks):
>> In article <2AFB6D53.9873@news.service.uci.edu>, josh@aris.ss.uci.edu (Josh
>> Stern) writes:
>>> In article <F7PTTB3w165w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (haus der luge) writes:
>>>> 
>>>> I recall somebody here mentioning that they have a copy of the 'RITE OF 
>>>> SPRING' for ONE piano.
>>> 
>>> There is a pianola version, based on a roll prepared by Stravinsky,
>>> which appears as a coupling for the Rite of Spring performance 
>>> conducted by B. Zander with a semi-professional group from Boston
>>> on IMP.  
>> 
>> I may be competely imagining this but I think I remember Zander saying that
>> the pianola roll was done by Stravinsky himself (with a few "cleaning up"
>> jobs done later).  He must have been quite a pianist.
>
>As I understand it, the pianola roll was created under Stravinsky's
>supervision by a man who spent many days poking wholes in the roll of 
>paper. 
>

For an interesting tour, visit the QMS Piano Roll Company, they are
one of the few remaining piano roll factories in the U.S. They are
located in Buffalo N.Y. when I was there the tour was either free or
just a couple of buck, but this was twelve years ago. Anyway they have
a Steinway connected to a special contraption that records key presses
on a roll of paper, it marks them in chalk. So the performer plays the
piece and they record it. They then take to another area where the
master is cut by hand on acetate. This is how they got Gershwin
playing Rhapsody in Blue, also Rachmaninoff playing some of his
preludes. Also the piano records pedal work and volume on the sides of
the track for Reproducing pianos. Reproducing pianos were made by
several companies. The most popular were Welte Mignon, and another
company that I can't remember the name. They basically split the
keyboard so that bass and treble could be played at different volumes
and the pedal work was all reproduced pnumatically. 

>Dale
>--
>- dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz
>- Korokoro, New Zealand


Greg
-- 
Greg Givler                 | "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Commodore Product Assurance | - Mark Twain
givler@cbmvax.commodore.com |
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Hal Prentice)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: HAYDN
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:08:32 GMT
Organization: Broadcasting Services, Michigan State University

In article <1992Nov9.170657.19854@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
>Subject: Re: HAYDN
>Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:06:57 GMT
>In article <1992Nov8.060054.19013@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>[....]
>>b) He's wrong, anyway.  The Haydn revival happened in the 60's and 70's.
>>We got at least two complete sets of Haydn symphony recordings, all
>>the quartets at least twice, tons of recordings of the Masses, etc.
>>Damn little of it on period instruments, either.
>
>I must have missed one of the symphony cycles: much as I hate to
>disagree, but I thought the Dorati was still the only complete cycle.
>(Gobermann started one but died before he could finish it). I'll be
>interested in being proved wrong.
>
>Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.

I believe that in the 60's Musical Heritage Society issued a Haydn symphony 
cycle, though I cannot remember the conductor or orchestra, nor do I recall 
precisely how complete the cycle was (possible Ernst Marzendorfer and some 
Vienna pickup group.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hal Prentice, FM Program Manager      Michigan State University
WKAR-FM, 283 Communication Arts Bldg  East Lansing, MI 48824-1212 USA
Internet: hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu      Bitnet: hal@radio.wkar.bitnet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: leighann@rocky.sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Stravinsky, Gesualdo
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:18:58 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc., Emeryville, CA

Many years (like 10) back, I saw a recording in a store, which appeared to
be Stravinsky arrangements of pieces by Gesualdo, or something like that --
anyway the names of the two composers figured prominently on the cover
(which, as I recall, was silver metallic).  Has anybody seen this album?
I've always regretted not buying it then and there, as I've never found it
again.  Anybody know what it could be?

	- Leigh Ann


----------------
Leigh Ann Hussey   
leighann@sybase.com           {sun,lll-tis,pyramid,pacbell}!sybase!leighann
"They're mine!  All mine!  And what's mine is mine!" - Daffy Duck
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: sorin@techunix.technion.ac.il (Goldenberg Sorin)
Subject: Re: HAYDN
Reply-To: sorin@techunix.technion.ac.il (Goldenberg Sorin)
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:05:21 GMT

what are chromaticism and modulation ?
From: hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Hal Prentice)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Re:Piano transcriptions
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:55:33 GMT
Organization: Broadcasting Services, Michigan State University

In article <17191@mindlink.bc.ca> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:
>From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
>Subject: Re:Piano transcriptions
>Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 06:15:27 GMT
>I have quite a lot of piano duet arrangements, including Mahler's 9th
>symphony (along with his 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th)... Does anyone know if
>the other symphonies have been released to the public domain (in piano duet
>form, that is)?
>
Whoops!  I'm sorry, I misread your request.  Mahler transcriptions I don't 
know...Schoenberg might have done some since he and Mahler were buds.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hal Prentice, FM Program Manager      Michigan State University
WKAR-FM, 283 Communication Arts Bldg  East Lansing, MI 48824-1212 USA
Internet: hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu      Bitnet: hal@radio.wkar.bitnet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: swartz@fraser.sfu.ca (Norman Swartz)
Subject: Obscene lyrics
Summary: Translation of lyrics in recording of _Catulli Carmina_ suppressed
Keywords: obscene, lyrics, orff
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 03:39:19 GMT

Jason Franks writes:

> Does anyone know of any other "classical" album which took such
> an action ...
[i.e. of warning listeners that lyrics may be objectionable]?

I have a recording of Orff's _Catulli Carmina_ by Heinrich
Hollreiser, Vox PL 8640 (circa 1954) which suppresses the
translation of some of the lyrics.  The English translation,
alongside the Latin, has gaping holes with an italicized
explanation: "For obvious reasons the translation of the
following lines has been omitted."
-- Norman Swartz, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, BC, CANADA


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: aluffi@cauchy.math.fsu.edu (Paolo Aluffi)
Subject: Re: Brahms symphonies question
Organization: Math Dept., Florida State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 19:09:30 GMT

Speaking about Op. 34 by Brahms, can anybody remind me of the "story" behind
this piece? I vaguely remember reading that Brahms was never satisfied by
the medium he had chosen to write this piece: first as a string quartet,
and Clara Schumann's advice was to make more of it, maybe a symphony; Brahms
settled for the Piano quintet version, which is well known, and for a sonata
for two pianos now catalogued as Op. 34b. The version for 2 pianos is 
extremely powerful--more, I think, than the piano quintet (which is anyway my 
"favorite" piano quintet, whatever that might mean). 
Any pointer to recording of the two piano version? I have it played by the duo 
Uriarte-Mrongrovius, Calig 50893, but I remember hearing an even better 
performance on the radio once---without catching the performers' names...
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Subject: Re: Bare Vs. Bold
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:39:43 GMT

As many others will point out, you mean bald, not bold, but I still
don't buy it. The US has all kinds of places named Bald Peak, Bald
Hill, Bald Mountain, and I don't think it's because Russian immigrants
had an elevation-naming monopoly. Put this together with what your friend
said, and it sounds to me like Russian and English agree and "bare" came
from something else.

Although, personally, I would have thought there would be a Russian bare
in there somewhere.

							Jeff Winslow
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Subject: Re: Messiaen recommendations?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 15:51:52 GMT

> Josh Stern writes:
>
> `Visions' has received a number of fine recorded performances, but the
> one by Yvonne Loriod and the composer himself, available NOW on the
> Ades label, should absolutely not be overlooked.  Messiaen and spouse
> are particularly outstanding at coordinating and articulating the
> finer rhythmic nuances of this composition.  THe recording dates from
> around 1960 but is quite good.
>


I heard Mr. & Mrs. Messiaen play this piece at Simon Fraser University in the
early 1970's, quite an experience (especially since I was very drunk at the
time!). Loriod played a bunch of solo works on the program as well. I
remember the page turner getting ahead of her a couple of times, and she
turned the page back to the correct location, giving the guy a look like she
was going to punch him!

I have heard one recording of Messiaen and Loriod where the sound quality was
mediocre, I don't know if this is the one you're speaking of. I have had what
is probably a VERY early recording of the piece on the DIAL label, the sound
on that was EXTREMELY bad.
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: STRAVINSKY
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:25:32 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

josh@aris.ss.uci.edu (Josh Stern) wrote:
> al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (haus der luge) writes:
>> I recall somebody here mentioning that they have a copy of the 'RITE OF 
>> SPRING' for ONE piano.
>> I was extremely skeptical about how the TWO piano version (scored by 
>> Stravinsky himself) would sound ... but it's fantastic and renewed my 
>> faith in the sheer power that can come from just two instruments.
> There is a pianola version, based on a roll prepared by Stravinsky...
> The pianola `performance' is very effective, particularly in the
> driving rhythmic sections which are taken at very fast tempos.

OK, returning to the question I posed some while ago about Nancarrow's
player piano music: what sort of player piano was it, and where do you
get the rolls?  (My girlfriend has a pianola which should produce great
results when the main bellows is fixed, as almost everything else is in
perfect condition; but the rolls we have for it are crap, and something
like this would be a mindblower).

Ord-Hume's book "Pianola" is great on the technical details and social
history of player pianos but has almost no information about the available
literature.  Is there a comprehensive rollography somewhere?

Another surprisingly effective piano arrangement: Bartok's of his "Dance
Suite".  I still miss the string sound in the ritornello theme, though.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hudu@well.sf.ca.us (Scott Marley)
Subject: Re: New PDQ Bach, Anyone have it?
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 07:30:30 GMT


Yeah, I've got the new PDQ Bach, and it's a hoot and a half.  It's called
=Music for an Awful Lot of Winds & Percussion=.  The pieces include "Grand
Serenade for an Awful Lot of Winds & Percussion", which is sort of what
you'd expect it to be (the movements are labeled "Grand Entrance", "Simply
Grand Minuet", "Romance in the Grand Manner", and "Rondo Mucho Grando"); the
"Dutch" Suite which is a set of four duets for bassoon and tuba, and manages
to be well-written music and painfully funny at the same time; "Six Contrary
Dances", sort of typical PDQ Bach silliness; a bassoon quartet called "Lip
My Reeds"; "March of the Cute Little Wood Sprites" which I didn't think was
as funny as its title; and "Last Tango in Bayreuth", an arrangement of
Wagner themes as a slow, sinuous tango for bassoon quartet.

I thought the "Dutch" Suite and "Last Tango in Bayreuth" alone were well
worth the price of the CD.  The wonderful thing about the latter is that
there isn't a wrong note or silly chord progression in it: if you didn't
know the Wagner melodies, you'd hear nothing amiss in it at all.  Somehow
that made the joke all the funnier to me...  :-)

Scott Marley
hudu@well.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pugh@pico.math.ucla.edu (David Pugh)
Subject: Re: Chopin's hands (was: It's in the wrists.)
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 21:28:53 GMT

In article <EIJKHOUT.92Nov12122942@cupid.cs.utk.edu> eijkhout@cupid.cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) writes:
>In article <4224@litchi.bbn.com> cbarber@bbn.com (Chris Barber) writes:
>
>Not all tenths are created equal. If you can play C-E, you may
>not be able to play D-F# or Ab-C. I was practicing a Skriabin
>piece for the left hand the other day and apart from one 11th 
>(A-D-F#-D) there were only tenths. But you should try them:
>A-C#-F#-C# or Ab-D-F#-C . Ow!

Which piece was this as a matter of interest? Scriabin does have some
horrible stretches. I wonder how big his hands were? He was a small man.
I heard a recording of him playing the Etude Op8 No12 in D# minor which
has 11ths (D#-G#) and he split them so his hands can't have been too big.

>
>By the way, does anyone know in what piece the incredible
>Db-F-Ab-Db-F stretch appears? That one is beyond me.
>

I presume this is in the left hand? If so,...

How about Rachmaninov Preludes Op23 No 12 (?). It's the last of the
set and it's in Db Major. The ending has a sequence using that exact chord?
Ashkenazy played the bottom Db as a accaciatura.

David
--
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
   David Pugh,  UCLA,  CA         |     Hot Dog, Jumping Frog
   pugh@math.ucla.edu             |     Alburqurque  -  Prefab Sprout
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Tomita's Planets
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:30:39 GMT

Somone asked about this, but my newsreader chewed up the original before I could reply.

It was this recording which was withdrawn in the mid 70s. Holst was
still in copyright and Imogen Holst - his daughter - forbad any
further sales. Whether this was because she hated the recording or
because she was miffed that Tomita didn't care about, or didn't check
on, the copyright situation - I'm sure he didn't ask permission -
don't know.

A friend of mine was particularly miffed by this - he had bought the
LP but it was faulty, when he returned it for a replacement he was
told he couldn't have one as it had been withdrawn.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
From: jde0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JON DAVID EISENBERG)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Nietzsche's Music
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:43:46 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

I would appreciate having any and all information about critical analysis,
performances, etc. of Nietzsche's compositions.  Please send me a memo listing
the source and a brief summary of content.  This might be important for my
impending thesis project.  So please respond as soon as possible.

                      Thank You(in advance).
                      Jon Eisenberg
                      Lehigh University
From: ian.murray@synapse.org (Ian Murray) 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: HAYDN
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:24:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: ian.murray@synapse.org (Ian Murray) 

On 11-05-92, Gabe M Wiener wrote to All regarding Re: HAYDN


GM>Vivaldi?  300 violin concerti and *every bloody one* sounds alike.

Sorry...Vivaldi WAS a bad example.

Haydn just doesn't do anything for me.  I've listened to several of hs 
many symphonies, The Creation, but I must admit I'm not fond of choral 
works with a few exceptions, and some Flute quartets.  What would you say 
were your favorite Haydn pieces...the ones that made you want to hear 
more?

By the way have you heard Vivaldi's Flute Concertos performed on a Pan 
Flute?  No the performer wasn't Zamphir.  Or how about the same concertos 
performed on Harmonica???  (Sorry - can't remember the performer). Both (I 
Think) available on CD on the ERATO label.  More like Erratum.

"Show me a Mountain Lions Lair and I'll show you a Haydn."

TTYL

   Ian "Doc" Murray

---
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Newsgroups: rec.music.classical