From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Conference, Sino-Tibetan Relations: Prospects for the future
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:25:12 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin


In article <BvCIoH.39A@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (C. Richter) writes:
>As for the rights to self-determination in Western countries, you are 
>obviously unaware that Canada is going through the very process right 
>now of deciding whether to accept a new constitution that makes new
>accommodations to Quebec, a province populated by French-speaking people, 
>many of whom have aspirations for independence from the rest of Canada. 

I'm finding it difficult not to get annoyed here.

Look, this Canadian referendum is occurring only after about 15 years
of haggling over the constitutional structure of Canada and it's
coming only after 130 years of the existance of Canada, and note that
EVEN NOW, the vote isn't on independence, merely on another
alternative to independence.

What annoys me and probably most of the other Chinese on NetNews is
that you seem to be holding a double standard in that you are not
giving us the chance to look for constitutional solutions short of
independence.

If independence is the only way to maintain Tibet as a "distinct
society," I'll be 100% for independence, but before that happens I
want to be sure that every other alternative short of independence is
tried.  Just like Canada has done.

Is a few decades of patience while we get a working democratic
government in China and then a few more decades while we experiment
with various constitutional relationships involving Tibet and the rest
of China too much to ask?

After all, it's not as if the Chinese government is marginalizing
Tibetans like the American Indians were marginalized.

>Somehow, I doubt very much that the 
>Chinese leadership would ever consider giving so-called "Autonomous
>regions" like Tibet and Xinjiang a chance to opt out of the Chinese 
>union through a democratic vote.  

The current Chinese leadership isn't to interested to having anything
done through a democratic process.  That's part of the problem.  

Now one fact that you have to deal with is that Tibetan independence
is simply impossible without a total breakdown in the Chinese central
government, and a such a breakdown would have too many bad
consequences for me to support.  Civil wars can be very nasty as you
can see from the pictures coming out of Bosnia and Somalia.

Now what I'm trying to work for is a gradual liberalization of the
central government and a political climate in which some settlement
similar to the one between the Spanish central government and Catalona
can be worked out.

Now this strategy may be les satisfying to one's ego than simpple
moral posturing, but I suspect that in the long run, it will be more
productive.

Now, do you have any better ideas?  Let's hear some constructive
suggestions. 

And to anticipate your first suggestion of "Have a YES/NO referendum on
independence."  let me point out........

1. The Chinese Central Government is not about to allow that to
happen, and unless you have a way to force/persuade them to do this,
this is not an option.

2. Even in a hypothetical universe in which the Central Government
allowed such a referendum, by having a YES/NO referendum on
independence, you are removing as options, any other political
arrangement.  Some of which may serve to guarantee the interests of
Tibetans just as much as independence, while being more amenable to
non-Tibetan Chinese, thereby lowering ethnic tensions instead of
raising them.

3. Even if we establish that a YES/NO referendum on independence is a
good thing, then we still need to establish who votes, the criteria
for "winning", and what happens if there is a "YES" vote.  Let me
point out that the question of what constitutes "Tibet" is an open
question.  Is it the TAR?  Areas with 90% ethnic Tibetans?  50%? 20%?

4. Even if you get past points 1, 2, and 3, you still have the problem
of what happens to the Han Chinese living in "Tibet" and the non-Han
living in "not-Tibet"?  Do they move?  Kill each other?  Are their
political rights to be denied like ethnic Russians in Estonia?

I suspect things aren't nearly as simple as you think they are.







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