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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:45:26 EST
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 3118

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 3118

                         Thursday, January 28, 1993

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                                help!!!!!!!!!
                                 Sumatriptan
                            RE: Looking Disabled?
                                  Re: Reply
                                help!!!!!!!!!
                              Re: side effects
                  Greetings from a new person on this echo
                                    argh
                              RE: help!!!!!!!!!
                                 Medications


                                ******


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Subject: help!!!!!!!!!
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Mail Room, Columbia SC


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hello Kelli!

06 Jan 93, Kelli Sheets writes to All:

 KS> I had back surgery in 1982 for pain in the legs and back. The doc went in
 KS> re-routed a nerve to the right leg, and took pressure off the disk, but
 KS> didn't remove it.

Ary you talking about Orthopedic Surgery or Neurosurgery?  Although
both approaches are used for this problem, there are sometimes some
differences in how this problem would be approached by these
different specialists.

 KS>  Now I'm having severe pain in the low back (L3-4) and
 KS> legs, mostly the right one. It seems to start up above the hip and run
 KS> down the leg. Heat used to help, and gentle pressure to certain key areas,
 KS> but now NOTHING helps. I went in and they gave me Vicodin

I don't know what kind of Doctor "they" may be, but itsounds like
you should be evaluated by an Orthopedic Surgeon.

 KS> I don't sleep anymore, and I'm never out of pain. I'm not real sure how
 KS> much longer I can take this. Suggestions, anyone? Please?

If you have access to a pain clinic near your home, it sounds like
you might find that approach helpful.

Arthur

--
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Internet: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Sumatriptan
From: Kelli.Sheets@f515.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Kelli Sheets)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/515 - The Gates of Deliri, Aurora Co


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

MF>Hi Jack, The new FDA approved injectable drug for "migraine" is
MF>sumatriptan.  It says that it relieves pain 80 percent
MF>of the time within two hours.

I have a pretty good herbal remedy for migraine, if anyone is interested. I
have had migraine for over 15 years and this helps every time.

--
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Internet: Kelli.Sheets@f515.n104.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: RE: Looking Disabled?
From: Stefan.Welch@p0.f33.n125.z1.fidonet.org (Stefan Welch)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:125/33.0 - BODY DHARMA ONLINE, Oakland CA


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

 -=> Quoting Mike Long to Linda Cummings <=-

 ML> I know about putting up a front.  I'm glad to see others in our
 ML> situation do the same.  When ask how I'm doing I just put on a smile

 IMHO, "faking it" helps me get by with many people. I heard a fellow
 talking the other day about how the depth of one's pains and griefs,
 whether physical or mental, can burn out other people--even close
 friends. On the other hand, some friends can feel alienated when I
 don't let them know what is going on. These people do want to know,
 but find it hard to help because they don't know what to do to help.
 So I tell them--a process of education, for them and me--and find
 them often relieved when they can dig in and contribute. Sometimes it
 is hard to tell the difference between those who want to help and
 those who manifest social concern, but actually do not want to be
 more closely involved. This has sometimes hurt when I invest in
 someone who apppears interested, but would rather withdraw and
 subsequently does so. I also think that many well meaning people
 would initially like to help but get discouraged themselves when they
 discover that the situation is not immediately "fixable."

 My, my [raise one eyebrow] that short note turned into a paragraph
 and surprised me. 8-) [wide eyed]  Once again I get to find out what
 I think by opening my yap and blabbing...  ;-)

 Best Wishes. Toodle-oo,

 Stefan

... OH NO, I burned the rice crispies--AGAIN!!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!125!33.0!Stefan.Welch
Internet: Stefan.Welch@p0.f33.n125.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Reply
From: Stefan.Welch@p0.f33.n125.z1.fidonet.org (Stefan Welch)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:125/33.0 - BODY DHARMA ONLINE, Oakland CA


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

 -=> Quoting Michael Rooney to Tandy Way <=-

 TW>and me to live comfortably without being flamboyant.  I just refinanced my
 TW>house to 8% instead of 9.75% just eseems so damned unfair.  I have tried
 TW>religion and I have problems with accepting that a god that is supposed to b
 TW>kind and merceful allows this.  oh please don't give me this "you have to ha
 TW>faith god has his reasons."  I don't buy any of that crap. or "there is a
 TW>better life on the other side."

 MR> There is a book written by a rabbi who's name escapes me but the mane
 MR> of the book is "Why Bad Things Happen to Good People". You might want

 Hi Tandy,

 I can empathize with that this seems so damned unfair. When
 I first got stuck with severe chronic pain I was mad, and felt
 cheated, and regularly fought with the unfairness. Then, of all people, my
 father pointed out to me that that was exactly right: it was
 unfair--and that was life--life is unfair. I was mostly angry at
 unfair life, after all, we grow up with the ideals of justice,
 equality, and fairness. So how come life isn't fair like they said
 it would be! This feels both ourageous and utterly humorously
 ludicrous to me now. At the time though, my spiritual life radically
 changed and, as part of the grieving process, I felt as though I
 fired God--that is, whatever I held God to be then. In the years
 since, I have come to other spiritual values and new viewpoints about
 pain.

 One way I look at the situation is: "Well, I can have pain and be
 depressed and mad, or I can have pain and look toward being as
 friendly toward myself and others as I can." I look toward feeling
 grateful, not so much in a worshipful, subordinate stance, but from
 internally feeling the blessings I do have. This is certainly not to
 say that when I hurt a lot and can't sleep that waves of grief do not
 ever wash over me. Grief cycles by and it hurts. Sometimes I feel
 like I'm drowning and get depressed. Sometimes I feel like I'm
 drowning and get mad. Getting mad energizes me and helps me surf the
 waves instead of sink and scrape my belly on the sand as they pound
 down.

 Assembling strength to put the best face on pain and "fake it"
 does require mental gymnastics and poses hazards. When, assembling
 courage, and one does a good job of it, other people cannot see it--the
 courage or the pain--and may blunder horribly with "what's wrong with
 you, you don't look like you're in pain." We have all heard such
 trite shortsightedness. Such comments delegitimize a person's pain
 managememt, and demean one's courage--they hurt.

 Well, Tandy, I've carried on here and I hope this doesn't coma across
 as preaching. I often agonize over what or how much to say about how
 I've done, or what I've felt or intellectualized in navigating these
 narrow, rocky channels lest I inadvertently antagonize rather than
 encourage or console. I do hope some of this helps. Take care.

 :-)

 Stefan

... RAM DISK is NOT an installation procedure!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!125!33.0!Stefan.Welch
Internet: Stefan.Welch@p0.f33.n125.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: help!!!!!!!!!
From: Ruthie.Hoffman@f660.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Ruthie Hoffman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:260/660 - Interstellar System, Vine Valley NY


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

 > help just a little. <?> My DO says he needs an MRI to get
 > answers on my back, but doesn't want to schedule one until I'm
 > insured. He seems to think the disc is herniated and causing
 > pressure on the nerve endings. He doesn't seem very concerned,
 > nor does he want to refill the meds, nor give me any different
 > ones. I'm taking anti-imflammatories with no results, and have
 > been off and on for over 10 years now. I asked him of maybe some
 > therapy would help, and he didn't wish to discuss this or
 > anything else. He just wanted out of there. Money talks....

You may or may not be reading your docs' actions right.  If the
disc is herniated or ruptured, then giving you painkillers until
they can find out for certain could do more harm than good to you.
I know this sounds terrible.  But think of it like this, if you are
taking a powerful enough painkiller to ease your pain, and the disc
IS herniated or ruptured, then you may do MORE damage to
yourself....see, you won't feel in pain, therefore you will do
things...movements, ect. that may cause the disc to move and cause
further damage.

It's too bad the anti-inflamatories don't help you.  I gather they
work rather well for alot of folks.  I am not able to take them,
unfortunately.

As for therapy, again, without knowing what is exactly going on in
your spine, therapy may do much more harm than good.

I'll admit I'm not all that familiar with the different types of
health insurance out there.  I have had, and will continue to have,
full coverage through Blue Cross and Blue Shield with all sorts of
riders, like major medical coverage, etc..   I am curious though
about how  your upcoming coverage will cover a pre-exsisting
injury???  I gather that many health insurance plans won't do
this.

I know it seems quite awful and inhuman that the docs won't do
anything for you until you are able to have the MRI.  But I can
also see their side of it, and they are not only protecting
themselves (which they have to do in these times of sue sue and
more sueing of doctors) but they are protecting you from possible
further damage.

 > I have been using moist heat, frequent tub baths, light massage
 > to the areas, reflexology, accupressure, and meditation. I can
 > get minimal relief with the massage, but it only lasts for about
 > 20-30 minutes. But as you probably know, sometimes, 3 minutes is
 > a lifesaver. (Sigh)

Those all sound like good things to be doing.  Are you limiting
your movements??  No bending, lifting, twisting of any kind?  I can
imagine the type of pain you are going through. I thought I was in
hell the weeks before they did the surgery.  But, since I had tests
right away to determine WHY I had such pain, the docs were fine
with giving me potent painkillers and valium until I had the
surgery.

 > I'm going to be getting married in Feb. and am looking at a
 > 12-15 hr. car ride to do so. I'm terrified at what shape I'll be
 > in when I get there. Any suggestions on how to keep things from
 > blowing and hurting while on the drive out and back? I'll be
 > making the trip, then four days later, repeating it to get home.
 > Makes me nervous just thinking about attempting this without and
 > type of pain med, etc.

I know that getting married is VERY important to you!!!  However,
*I* would NOT make that sort of trip until I knew what was going on
in my spine.  Risking possible further damage to your disc(s) and
nerves seems to me to be a real threat in making a trip like you
are describing above.  Pain killers would only mask the pain, but
not stop the damage.

I know I'm not giving you the answers you wish to hear..I wish I
could.  But I feel I'm giving you some very realistic and careful
information.

I have learned alot about disc injuries over the past 3 yrs. I
suffer from chronic pain and some nerve damage due to a rupture of
L4-L5 and old herniation of L5-S1.  Fortunately for me, I was able
to get a CT scan and then a MRI right away and have a good
neurosurgeon do a partial laminectomy.  This restored feeling in my
left foot and ankle.  I re-herniated L4-L5 10 months later, because
I was doing something I shouldn't have, and was able to have that
diagnosed quickly with another MRI and have that firmly confirmed
with a myelogram a couple months after that.  Now I am learning to
live with the pain and am careful about how I do things.

I wish you luck and I hope that you are careful in whatever you
chose to do.

CUL, Ruthie

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!260!660!Ruthie.Hoffman
Internet: Ruthie.Hoffman@f660.n260.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: side effects
From: Bill.Waller@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Waller)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:150/140 - Black Bag BBS, Wilmington DE


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Stefan, thanks very much for your reply.

The imipramine caused me to feel kind of out of it.  I heard one person
say that they felt as if they were outside their body.  This is the
feeling I got.  It felt as if I were slightly off-center from the
intersection of time and space.  It was really uncomfortable.  I just
wanted to go to sleep so that I would wake up and have the stuff out
of my body.  After that, I did not want to take the imipramine for
several weeks.  (Kind of like having eaten spoiled fish.)

I got almost complete relief for several months when my doctor
switched me to Ritalin.  This drug is used as an anti-depressant
when, because of side effects, lack of response, or when the patient
cannot wait for several weeks for the drug to become effective.
The only problem is that I have slowly built up a tolerance to it.
If I go up on the dose, I get undesirable side effects (such as
hyperflexia).  I don't know how the Ritalin works, but perhaps the
brain uses the increased availability of neurotransmitters to
activate the endorphin releasing systems.  I could not believe how
well I slept with the Ritalin.  I went from sleeping only three or
four hours to 7 good hours.

The plan was to take Ritalin for about three months while I was also
taking the Tofranil.  I have been taking the Tofranil again for about
two weeks (50mg a day), and hopefully, It will do some good.  How long
did it take before you got relief.

This weekend, I tried taking Vicodin ES, but it makes me itch.  Also,
I just don't feel as good when I take it.  I used to take Talwin-NX
until it started keeping me up at night.  (It acts as a stimulant for
me.)  Now, I really do not know of any pain medication that works very
well for me.  I have Toradol, but it doesn't do much good.

My work is very technical.  I need a crystal clear mind to work.  Pain
absolutely disrupts my concentration.  There is a very fine balance
between relief of pain and the mental clouding caused by medications.

I had one doctor tell me that NSAIDS were far superior to narcotics
for pain relief.  He was simply wrong.  NSAIDS do not have any effect
on my leg and arm pain.  What I really want is a drug that has not yet
been discovered.  It would relieve pain with no side effects!

I have searched the CompuServe Health Database for research on new drugs.
The only thing I have seen is some mention of enkephalins and peptide
molecules.  (Not that I even know what this means.)  If anyone has any
information on new drugs, please share it with me.

I have been encouraged to pursue self-hypnosis/relaxation/meditation
techniques.  I know I should do this, but I think it would be of
limited use in my case because the pain is so completely overwhelming.
When it hits, I can hardly move.  All I want to do is lay down and
stay motionless.  Every minute passes as if it were an hour.  It is
a very hopeless feeling.  Then, with even small doses of opiod pain
medication, I can be back on the job, absorbed in my work.

I am not currently taking narcotic medications, because I talk myself
out of using them.  I have chronic worring as well as chronic pain.
Am I imagining that they make me depressed because I don't like the
idea of being dependant on them.  I go through cycles of getting very
bad, taking medication and getting better, stopping medication and
getting worse, ad infinitum.  Am I the only one who does this?

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!150!140!Bill.Waller
Internet: Bill.Waller@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Greetings from a new person on this echo
From: Shoshona.Bieman@f102.n103.z1.fidonet.org (Shoshona Bieman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:103/102 - The Master's BBS, Garden Grove CA


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Sounds like you and your husband have worked out your common needs
and what you can do to compliment one another. My husband does all
the heavy work (and most of the light work). I get to give him
strokes and I let him warm his body next to mine - I generate
enough heat to melt igloos and he is cold all the time ;-)  Even in
my incapacitation, I can do nurturing things for him - which he
does appreciate. I still feel bad that he does so much more than me
- but he is pretty accepting of me & what I can't do. Life...

Shoshona ;-)

--
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Internet: Shoshona.Bieman@f102.n103.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: argh
From: Shoshona.Bieman@f102.n103.z1.fidonet.org (Shoshona Bieman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:103/102 - The Master's BBS, Garden Grove CA


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

As to your drive to Vegas: I don't go anywhere unless I can recline
completely in the car - and prop my legs up. You may want to rent a
car that will give you plenty of room to do so yourself. Then
again, it might be worth it to fly - a 1 or 2 hour flight can be
less taxing than a 15 hour haul in a motor vehicle... Let me know
how it goes...

Shoshona ;-)

--
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Internet: Shoshona.Bieman@f102.n103.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: RE: help!!!!!!!!!
From: Elizabethann.Hawhee@f119.n283.z1.fidonet.org (Elizabethann Hawhee)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:283/119 - The Mouse College, Cedar Rapids IA


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

In a message to Ruthie Hoffman written on Saturday, January 9, 1993 at
13:58:00, Kelli Sheets writes:

KS > I'm going to be getting married in Feb. and am looking at a 12-15
KS > hr. car ride to do so. I'm terrified at what shape I'll be in
KS > when I get there. Any suggestions
KS > on how to keep things from blowing and hurting while on the drive
KS > out and back?
KS > I'll be making the trip, then four days later, repeating it to
KS > get home. Makes me nervous just thinking about attempting this
KS > without and type of pain med, etc.
KS > If you have any other ideas that I can try at home, I'm all ears!
KS > (And back) ;)

Hope you do not mind me butting in Kelli but two years ago when I
had to make an emergency 1000 mile drive I ended up using an ice
bag on my back. Yes, I know it sounds crazy but for me ice works
where heat does not. I put the bag next to my skin and the cold
blocks pain better than anything other than super strong pain
pills.

Hope you find something that works and congratulations on your
upcoming wedding.

Take care,
Elizabeth

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!283!119!Elizabethann.Hawhee
Internet: Elizabethann.Hawhee@f119.n283.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Medications
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Mail Room, Columbia SC


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hello Wayne!

07 Jan 93, Wayne Briggs writes to Bill Waller:

 WB> Are you familiar with the use of non-addicting antri-depresants
 WB> from amitriptyline to zoloft to enhance the effectiveness of both
 WB> perscription & non-perscription pain meds - both are effective by the
 WB> lymbric system in the brain.

Although that may be true, affects on the limbic system are not the
primary mechanism by which we believe these drugs act to reduce
chronic pain.  Instead, evidence shows these drugs act to reduce
the amount of pain signal that gets carried from peripheral nerves
to the brain.  This happens long before a pain signal ever gets to
the limbic system.

Arthur

--
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Internet: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org




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                  End of Issue # 3118 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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