HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Saigon Smuggler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 10mm and CHP
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:40:23 GMT
Organization: Univel

In article <MAILQUEUE-101.930126081318.288@english.as.ua.edu>, DHORTON@ENGLISH.AS.UA.EDU (David A. Horton) writes:
|> Jim Del-Vecchio and Frank Crary:
|> 
|> I heard a similar story about the Glock trials with the CHP --
|> apparently Glock sent a shipment of something like 500 pistols to the
|> CHP for evaluation. Upon arrival the armorers disassembled the
|> pistols to see if the met certain criteria and tossed them aside.
|> Emphasis on "tossed them aside" into a pile of Glock parts. Didn't
|> bother to clean them.
|> When the time for evaluation rolled around they simply assembled the
|> Glocks out of the pile of parts at random. This was also done with
|> the S&Ws. Apparently, the Glocks were much more "sensitive" to this
|> mis-matching of parts than the S&Ws were. The Glocks typically
|> experienced frame cracks more often than the S&Ws did, but it wasn't
|> uncommon for a Smith to fail in some other respect, i.e, a broken
|> extractor, firing pin, etc.

Hmmm.  Glock pistols were designed to use drop-in parts.  This means that
if you need to replace your barrel (or any other part) for instance, you
don't need to machine that part to fit into your gun properly.  You just
order the part and drop it in.  In fact, according to Glock, the only tool
needed for a Glock armorer is pin punch.  If you lose it, a ball point pen,
handcuff key or paper clip will do just fine.

-tt
From: JTCHEW@lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: When do you get involved???
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:02:31 GMT
Organization: Honest Ernie's Used Ions

In article <1993Jan20.210434.3146@igor.tamri.com>, donb@igor.tamri.com 
(Don Baldwin) wrote:

# Maybe Iowa's crime rate is low because 1) people there are cordial
# and willing to help each other... Wish California was more like that...

Heh.  Indulge me in a story even though it doesn't involve firearms.

Last Saturday night about 10, I was driving through one of the nicer
residential neighborhoods in Alameda, CA.  No; wait; not a *nice* 
neighborhood, a *prestigious* neighborhood where the biggest 
houses sell for a cool million.  Suddenly my wife said, "What
the **** is this?"

What it was, was a group fight at the bus stop.  By the time I spotted
it, the fight had resolved itself into three or four nicely dressed, 
ordinary-looking white boys in their early teens pounding on 
one black kid of similar description.  He went down quickly and
at least one of the attackers started repeatedly kicking him.

O-kay.  Kids Get Into Fights (tm), but three on one with internal
injuries in Mr. 1's immediate future -- naah, that won't do.
I gave them a Car Fu demonstration (brights, horn, about 4000
rpm in second, and a hearty tromp on the brakes at the last
prudent opportunity).  The attackers got the intended message
("Visualize Road Pizza") and decamped for somebody's yard 
about a block away; that was the end of it.

The victim was back on his feet within a minute or so with no
life-threatening damage evident.  Like his attackers, he gave
no sign of drug or gang involvement or other badassery -- just
a regular kid.  Maybe it was a schoolyard score being settled 
after hours, but in Alameda one has to at least acknowledge 
the possibility that the attackers were taking advantage of 
favorable odds for a little race-bashing.  (I was considerably 
reassured to see that a couple of white passers-by stopped to 
see if he needed help or a ride somewhere, and that, when 
we circled the block and came back, he'd hooked up with a 
white friend for the walk back home.  There may be hope
after all.)

There exists the possibility -- there always does when you
intervene in a street situation -- that I was interfering with
the appropriate handling of someone who richly deserved it.
And, yes, if one of the attackers had been armed and sufficiently
cool and skillful to plug away at us effectively, we could have
been in a world of hurt:  we're not bulletproof, and, under
California law, we couldn't even have been equipped to
return fire (but I'll step right off THAT worn-out soapbox). 
However, especially considering the good look I got at the
victim afterwards, I figure I did the right thing.

Yours for the quiet life in the 'burbs,
Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: hand shake
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:03 GMT
Organization: who knows

viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes...
#dc@maths.tcd.ie (Daniel Carroll) writes:
##   What would you experrts out there recomend to someone with a slight
##shake in their hand.I myself suffer from this inheireted disease and i
##would like to know if there is a way of increasing the accuracy of 
##my shot.

I have heard that some pistol match shooters drink one shot of 
peppermint shnapps!?

[MODERATOR:  Same stories abound for some highpower shooters, who have
been known to sip a little "group tightener" before the match.  Independent
of the thoughtful ideas Dan posted in the original note, as RO of many
matches in our area I would escort anyone indulging in this practice to
the property boundary immediately upon discovering it ... something I
promised to do with taking over as rifle officer in our club, and also
each year when I file our forms with NRA to get the club league registered.
In the latter sense, I would have no choice in the matter.]
From: hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: (PISTOL) Someone please describe the GLOCK trigger pull/action
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:56:56 GMT
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group (Denver, CO, USA)


Would someone please describe the GLOCK trigger pull / action.  Is it DA?
DAO?  Single action?  Single and a half action?  (i.e. not quite
single, not quite double)

I understand it has a light trigger pull?  5.5 lbs or so?
Is it smooth?  Does it break clean as glass?  If  not, how clean?

Once you rack the slide to load a round, is the firing pin physically blocked
from hitting the primer?  Is the firing pin sort of half-cocked, the trigger
pull finishes cocking then releases the firing pin?

Is there an internal striker / hammer?  or is the firing pin fired only using
a spring. 

Is the firing stroke (i.e. trigger pull) the same from shot to shot (esp.
1st shot to 2nd) or does it change?

Is there a good book that describes the glock's action?

What is a summary of the different models?

If people want to send e-mail, I'll try to post a summary.

thanks

-- 

Steve Camp
(303)971-4379
hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Thompson/Contender info
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:39:59 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <MAILQUEUE-101.930121133107.480@english.as.ua.edu> DHORTON@ENGLISH.AS.UA.EDU (David A. Horton) writes:
#John, I can't quote all the present chamberings for the Contender,
#but I know of a few: .22LR, .357, .44, .45colt/.410, .45-70, .223,
#.30-30, 35rem, 7mm tcu, 7-30 waters.
#
#I wish I could remember right off the top of my head what all else is
#currently chambered, but I can't. Call your local dealer and ask. One
#other thing to consider, SSK Industries of Ohio (I believe...) also
#custom chambers Contender barrels. You can get their catalog via.
#mail.
#

The new J.D. Jones/Handgun Hunters Int. newsletter arrived yesterday. According
to Jones, T/C has revamped their line considerably and dropped some of the
not so popular products. They, however, are now offering a stainless Contender
at an only slightly higher price for '93. They have not expanded the number of
cartridges for which the Contenders are chambered. Just thought you might like
to know.

gmk
From: boyd@gauss (Mickey Boyd)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What do gunsmith's charge?
Date: 26 Jan 93 05:00:56 GMT
Organization: fsu.edu

Dave Schabel (calspan!schabel@uu.psi.com) wrote:

# I have a Ruger MK-II (.22) that I shoot in competition.  Actually,
# two of them between my wife and I.  I believe that I've gotten
# to the level of competence that would justify my wanting to
# get the trigger pull lightened up somewhat.  Does anyone know
# what is involved, and what a gunsmith might be expected to
# charge for doing this?

$50-$75.  You probably want to get a steel trigger to replace the aluminum
factory unit.  About $15 more.

# Also, I have recently purchased a Colt Gold Cup Series 70.  Used,
# of course.  I would like to get some parts "tightened up", as I
# suspect that, while extremely well-kept, some parts are showing
# signs of aging, and hence not shooting groups as tight as 
# it is capable of.  What parts, if any, should I have replaced?
# (No, it's not just me -- I can shoot it from a bench rest and
# not have it group as well as the original test target which
# the previous owner had passed along).

No way to know, and possibly none.  Give it to the gunsmith.  I would expect 
a checkup/minor fitting/possible parts replacement would cost less than $75, 
perhaps much less.  

--
******************************************************************************
*                                Mickey Boyd                                 *
*                           Systems Administrator                            *
*              Florida State University Mathematics Department               *
* email:  boyd@math.fsu.edu  Office:  (904) 644-7167  Pager:  (904) 657-6425 *
******************************************************************************
From: jhultman@vitalink.com (Jeff Hultman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: the spirit of rec.guns
Date: 23 Jan 93 01:55:41 GMT
Organization: Vitalink


 
Good points.

#I've been thinking, can we start calling 'assault rifles' something
#better, such as 'service rifles'.  That is what they are, after all.
#Yes, its fun to type 'Evil Assault Rifle {tm}', (I do it), but we
#may not be helping our cause.
_________________
Exactly! 

I was watching a PBS special a year ago on Fidel Castro.  During this special
on Cuba/Fidel there was a short clip of an interview with Fidel in his apartment shot 
in black and white during the early sixties.  The camera scanned the apartment
displaying the modest living conditions of the small sized apartment.  Up against
the wall leaned an FN/FAL.  As the camera panned past the propped up rifle the
BBS news reporter commented on the "INTRUDER "RIFLE".  I feel this term 
counters the connotations surrounding the term "assault rifle".  I do agree
that it is time to start referring to semi-autos with a "different look"
as assault rifles.

Jeff H.

Jeff H.
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SIG Sauer P226: Walther??
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:42 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

cvakg001@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:
#guru's could shed a little light on the Walther, it could be helpful. What 
#I'm looking for, is the usual- accuracy, longevity, cleaning, feeding, 
					  ^^^^^^^^^
If you want longevity, you don't want the Walther or the SIG, 
which have aluminum frames, but a steel framed pistol.


#availibility and cost of parts, and overall performance.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Walther parts cost more than any other brand I can think of.

P-38 mags are ~$50, vs ~$14 for Hi-power mags.

JD
From: DENNIS_@ncsu.edu (DGA)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: gun in an apartment
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:24:48 GMT
Organization: NCSU

In article <9301222225.AA05872@spsgate.sps.mot.com> rigg@adtaz.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg) writes:
#From: rigg@adtaz.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg)

#
#If you are talking about storage when you are not home and the gun is,
#a good place is behind the air conditioning vent (assuming you
#have air conditioning).  Few thieves remove the vents when robbing
#a place.
#
#Dana Rigg
#Chandler, AZ
#rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com

Geez Dana,

Where you gonna keep your guns now?  

This is not a private, good guys only, club.  Don't post things here that 
you wouldn't want to be public knowledge.  Use E-mail if you have 
information to transmit to an individual, but don't want it broadcast to the 
widest possible group.

DGA
From: David.Bernard@Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SIG Sauer P226: I now understand the cult
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:16 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems

Paul Yoshimune writes:

#The upshot of the whole deal was that the SIG was far and away the best combat
#or duty gun to have, but was less than ideal for constant target shooting.
#Unfortunately, I'm using mine for IPSC matches right now...  :-(  Just some
#i

I think I'm missing something, because I didn't totally understand this.  What I
got was, the model lacks a certain amount of durability and reliability when used
in a target range, but somehow regains durability and reliability in the
field?  What am I missing?

	Dave
From: erico@squirrel.pen.tek.com (Eric Oosterhof;627-4329;47-786;tekig1.pen;)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sacramento Armory price on 7.62X39 ammo
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:37:05 GMT
Organization: tektronix


In article <9301251250.aa17218@claudius.pica.army.mil>, erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
|> 
|> If you send a letter to Sacramento Armory, with the usual words for ammo
|> purchase (I certify... I am over 21, etc....) and CERTIFIED funds (a
|> postal money order is good) for the dealer price, they will send you
|> the ammo at the dealer price.

<...snip...>

Anybody out there have a mailing address for the Sacramento Armoury?  

|> Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
|> Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
|> Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
|> window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."

Thx

erico

-- 
Eric Oosterhof                "Gentlemen, I have the utmost confidence 
erico@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM       in your ability to perform...
(503) 627-4329                 the impossible!"  Capt. Jean-Luc Picard
"Choosy mothers choose .gif"  Anthony C. Zable
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Got a nice Tokarev ...
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:10:50 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores of the Pacific, California

Last night I got a look at my Tokarev (I filled out the paperwork
and get to wait the 15 days now...).  I ordered one from Clayton
Cramer with both the 7.62 Tokarev and 9mm barrels.

It looks great!  I don't know if it is just the 'luck of the draw'
or if Clayton just does business with the right distributors,
but the only 'defect' visible was a slight smear of copper on
the right side of the sights and roll pin where it looks like a 
brass/copper punch was used to drift them in.

The rest of the finish is a very nice blue/black.  It did come
dripping on oil ...  Racking the slide takes a good tug (more
than I'd expected, but not extreme).  The trigger has a bit of
take-up (but far far less than on a DA Ruger ...) to a clean
break with just a smidge of creap (about the same as my Springfield
Amoury, with just a hint more hesitation to break) at what I'd
guess is about 5 lbs.

The fit seemed good and the slide and action was not noticably 
rough in any way.  For about $200 (including both bbls, 4 magazines(!)
(two each in 9mm & 7.62 Tok), I'm a very happy camper!  It came
to about $225 including DROS fee and sales tax.

The gun is physically smaller than I'd expected, the grip is 
a smallish fit in my big hands, with my little finger feeling
a bit squeezed to get on the grip with all the other fingers ;-)
but if feels OK (and my wife will probably like it.  She likes
grips that feel just a smidge small to me).  At 29 oz or so,
it would make a nice gun for packing ... and at $200 you wouldn't
mind so much when it got taken as evidence post self defence use ...

I'm very glad that I got the 9mm bbl, since it has been a bit
of a hastle to find 7.62x25 Tokarev ammo, and what has been
found is berdan primed an MAY be corrosive (have to wait till
it comes in to find out ... I forgot to ask Clayton...)

If I wan't interested in it as a bit of history (so I want the
original 7.62 Tok bbl available) I'd have likely gotten the 9mm
only version for cheaper...  (I think it was something like $160?
whatever, I've forgotten now...).

At any rate, I may end up shooting my Tokarev before the Springfield
Armory, since it is off to the 'Smith now for repair ...  

Sorry all you 'Norincos are lousy, buy American only' folks, but 
the fact is that my expensive American gun arrived broken and both
the SKS and the Tokarev seem flawless.  What can I say.  I find
myself in the odd position of wishing I'd ordered a Norinco 1911-A1...

Well, time, as they say, will tell.  In about 3 weeks I hope to
post a review of how they BOTH shoot, and we'll see if I've just
got new-gun-itis or not ...



-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: pdalidow@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Pete Dalidowicz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: MP5 10mm
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:52:32 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1jul43INNmr@digex.digex.com> steveg@digex.digex.com (Stephen Grant)
 writes:
#You are correct that HK does/did make an MP-5 in a 10mm
#chambering. However the design was made well after the May 19, 1986
#machine gun law change which forbids private ownership of
#newly made automatic weapons. Hence, because the guns are
#made "post-86" they are transferrable only to police, government,
#and class III machine gun dealers as sales samples only.
#
#Life sucks doesn't it? All because of something someone passed
#on a day in May of 1986....
#
#Steve
#
#

 Yes but if you read the article I posted you would have seen that it is also 
made in semi-auto which is fully legal for sale to the public.
From: jeffc@sad.hp.com (Jeff Crowell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Clips are not magazines
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:39:58 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)

Nosy (ataylor@nmsu.edu) wrote:
: 
: 	At the risk of being pedantic, I'd like to get on my
: 	soapbox and point out that magazines are metal objects
: 	that surround cartridges (NOT "BULLETS") with a spring
: 	and 'follower'.
: 
: 	Clips are pieces of metal which do not enclose  or completely
                                                           ^^^^^^^^^^
: 	surround cartridges. 
:

Does this mean that the cartridge storage device on my Springfield
Armory M1911A1 is a 'clip'?  It has holes in it so I can see how many
bullets I have left.

Also, does it mean that the plastic thingie I put shells into to shoot
in my 10-22 (or my Glock, come to think of it) isn't a magazine?
 




















Oh, yeah.  8-)

Jeff
From: unislc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (James Warren)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: hand shake
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:59 GMT
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC

#From article <viking.727690601@ponderous.cc.iastate.edu>, by viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson):
# 
# 	He drinks a beer.  That's it.  While your disease may not be the
# same as his, we've found that a glass of brew settles his nerves, so to
# speak, and does not produce intoxication.  Check yourself at the pub,
# not at the range with a gun, to see if this is a viable option.
# 

Since you had the guts to bring it up, I'll admit that it works for me,
too.

I don't know that my shakes are caused by a disease, though they might
be.  The amount that I shake varies considerably, but it is always there.
I have found that a drink will reduce the amount of shake a lot.  It only
takes about 10 or 15 min before I see a big improvment, and I stay steady
for a couple of hours.  

I do not believe that ONE drink will cause a noticable change in my
ability to shoot safely (well maybe three fingers in the bottom, or top,
of a number 3 wash tub would 8^).  In fact, since I know that my senses 
could _possibly_ be somewhat impared, I tend to be especially careful.
From: timelord@wam.umd.edu (Lazarus Long)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Mail order ammo?
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:17:45 GMT
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park

I would like to know if anyone has ordered ammo from the Sportsman's Guide
mail order catalog...

They list some good prices on "UMC" ammo suposed to be made by remington...

Anyone ever use this stuff?  

What are appropriate uses for it?

Thanks...
From: ems@apple.com (Mike Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SKS Slam-fire/full auto = $1.4 million
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:10:55 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA


I've been thinking about this a bit, owning an SKS, and I think 
the model folks are working from is flawed.  How often do YOU
shoulder your weapon before you pull the bolt?  Why do folks 
think the gun had to be pointed forward to shoot him in the back?

Think about it:  Most of the time folks pick up a long arm in the
left hand in a sort of 'port arms' position (across the chest, 
muzzel up) and jack the bolt with the right hand.  If it started
to run full auto, it is a short trip *mostly down* and only
slightly back for the muzzle to get behind you!

So what IS the best way to jack the bolt on a self loader?
'Port arms' but with the butt against your upper leg?  Shouldered?
Gently? (1/2 ;-)

In article <9301101945.AA23812@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) writes:
##In article <930107234210_71773.3463_DHG72-1@CompuServe.COM> 71773.3463@CompuServe.COM (Brian  T. Millin) writes:
##
###To paraphrase, two years ago John E. Murray let the bolt drop on an SKS-47
###sold as the "Cowboy Companion" by Navy Arms when it slam-fired and went
###full auto. It tore loose from his grip and moved backward, firing one
###bullet through his back killing him instantly. The rifle dumped 7 rounds
###in less than one second, lodging under the tire of his truck 38 feet away.

#According to the Murkey News article on Friday, the dead guy was *not*
#holding the rifle with both hands when he pulled the bolt to chamber
#a round.  

And just how DO you hold the rifle with both hands while pulling the
bolt?  With your third hand or with your toes?  Not being mean 
spirited about the question, just pointing out graphically part of
the problem with the model:  It presumes that you CAN hold with two
and still pull the bolt!

#It was sitting on the table infront of him, and he pulled it
#with one hand.  Really stupid.

For the life of me I can't figure out how to pull the bolt on an SKS
while it lays on a table and using only one hand.

I think the Murkey News messed up the story...

-- 
E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

"Nothing can keep an argument going like two persons who aren't
sure what they're arguing about."   O.A.Battista
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ruger political questions
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:46 GMT


For information on this topic you might want to contact Neal Knox's
organization (ad in every Shotgun News issue). Gun Week reported on a
telephone conversation between Bill Ruger hisself and Neal in 1989.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."