HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: holzman@fnalo.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Tyson's sentence
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:36:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab

In article <1992Apr9.174920.29710@coopsol.com>, gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon 
Storga) writes:
> I had heard he was sentenced to 6 10 year terms.  The judge reduced each
> sentence.  I may have heard incorrectly, and would welcome corrections.
> My point was not the term he'll end up serving, it was what he was
> sentenced to *originally*.

He was only tried on three counts.  How could he have gotten six seperate
terms?
-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
TEAM STAR Charter Member             | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
From: gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Tyson's sentence
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:20:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stay Awake Software

<1992Apr10.181347.1@fnalno.fnal.gov> holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman) said:
>In article <1992Apr8.183153.10981@coopsol.com>, gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon 
>Storga) writes:
>>>Err... Tyson was given six years, out of possible thirty.  WHat case are you
>>>following?
>> 
>> I believe Tyson was sentenced to 60 (it might have been thirty) years 
>> *originally*, but that a lot of it was reduced by the judge.  Alton, the 
>> guy sentenced to death was given 12 years, reduced to 2, for murder.
>
>You are incorrect.
>
>The maximum possible sentence would have been 30 years (3 10 year sentences,
>served consecutively).  What Tyson got, as was well reported, was 3 10 year
>sentences, with the last 4 years suspended, served concurrently, in addition to
>a $30,000 fine.

That's it then.  I knew he was sentenced *originally* to a lot more than 4
years.  Thanks for the correction.


Gordon
-- 

The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: fraternities
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:28:55 GMT

In article <15APR199213520864@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>, aatresa@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.093914.5063@ac.dal.ca>, 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes...
>
>>I also think that we have to change attitudes at a younger age. I saw a study 
>>on TV where 35% of high school boys thought it was ok to force sex on a drunk
>>girl. I think instead of following stupid threads about who perpertrates more
>>rapes than who, we ought to work together to change attitudes.
>> 
>>Mike 
>
>I'll buy that, Mike.  Here in Ohio we've had two recent cases...one was a 
>twelve year old that raped a six year old.  I just have to wonder where 
>they learn it.  When *I* was twelve, I was still beating up the boys during 
>recess.
>I *know* that rape isn't about sex, it's about power.  But where does a 
>twelve year old boy learn that?

Maybe he learns it from being beaten up during recess.

Attitudes about violence have to change as well, not just about sexual
violence.

>-- Teresa
>
>		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!


Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
From: gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Tyson's sentence
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:31:53 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stay Awake Software

<1992Apr6.170902.1@fnalno.fnal.gov> holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov said:
><1992Apr4.192255.6135@coopsol.com>, gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:
>> If Tyson really feels he is innocent then why the hell would or should he
>> act as though he is guilty?  If I get framed for murder and convicted,
>> should I start acting like I'm sorry I killed the person?
>
>If Tyson does not feel that he has committed rape, then he should not behave as
>if he feels that he did.  However, if Tyson does not feel that he has committed
>rape, then there is a good chance that he will do so again.  Thus it behooves
>society in this case to keep him isolated from society.

I agree - he is guilty of rape.  I just don't think you can expect him to
_act_ like his is guilty of rape.

>> been found guilty, I don't dispute that.  But sixty years!  Heck, there
>> are _murderers_ out there who get less than a third of that.  The guy
>> sentenced to die this weekend in California served only two years for his
>> first murder.
>
>Err... Tyson was given six years, out of possible thirty.  WHat case are you
>following?

I believe Tyson was sentenced to 60 (it might have been thirty) years 
*originally*, but that a lot of it was reduced by the judge.  Alton, the 
guy sentenced to death was given 12 years, reduced to 2, for murder.


Gordon
-- 

The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
From: jxo@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: how to support a friend who has been raped ?
Date: 11 Apr 92 14:59:47 EST
Distribution: talk
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1992Apr10.130143.8179@bernina.ethz.ch>,
zeller@bernina.ethz.ch (Lukas Zeller) writes: 
> Sorry that I ask this question about a subject that surely has been discussed 
> here again and again, but I'd really like some advice.
> A friend of mine has been raped by her boss. She fears the humiliation that 
> women experience when they try to accuse the rapist, the situation that the 
> victim becomes the accused (style: are you sure you didn't provocate him?) - 
> And she's dependent on continuing her job. This man seems to have routine; 
> most probably he raped several women before.
> What can one do to help her in this situation? Blind revenge wouldn't do any 
> good, obviously - altough even people hardly involved like me feel a sudden 
> and strong urge to do so, let alone women who've gone trough that themselves.
> Maybe there are other, more effective possibilites aside from (or in addition 
> to) report on him, maybe writing letters to his employer etc. stating that his 
> deed is known and urge him to give himself up to the police. Of course this 
> raises the question if being threatened justifies threatening, but it's a 
> matter of proportions. I'd greatly apprechiate if somebody out here had any 
> advice or idea or a pointer. Not to pay violence with violence, but *not to 
> accept* that again a woman has been broken by a man, insane or not, and having 
> no way out but to *swallow*. Please email - thanks a lot! 
> 
> ==========================  +---------------------------+  *****************
>       Lukas Zeller          |\         E-Mail:         /|  * Never trust a *
>  ETH Zurich, Switzerland    | \_______________________/ |  *   computer    *
>   (SFIT, Swiss Federal      |  /  zeller@ethz.UUCP   \  |  *  bigger than  *
>  Institute of Technology)   | / ..chx400!ethz!zeller  \ |  * you  can lift *
> ==========================  +---------------------------+  *****************

One of the most important things one should think about when helping
a friend, is that rape survivors may feel and overwelming loss
of power.  If a friend tries to push them in a certain direction, it may
give her/him the sense that they still have no power.  Help empower
them.  I think it is okay to give suggestions about callind a crisis
line, etc., as long as you stress it is his/her choice, his/her option.
Not "I think you should..."

Otherwise:  Believe them, support them, be a friend.

-Kimberly





Xref: sparky talk.rape:874 talk.abortion:14643
From: gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga)
Newsgroups: talk.rape,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Life, Defined and Otherwise
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:47:22 GMT
Organization: Stay Awake Software

<1992Apr7.050009.1623@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bi477@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil Sherman) said:
>I have read many postings about rape, abortion, babies born
>without brain stems...etc.  I cannot believe that you people in
>general have no sense of when human life begins, regardless of
>how you or others choose to end it.
>
>	* All Life Begins At Conception
>		It  doesn't matter whether it is human life or
>		otherwise, it still is present at conception.

What was it before conception - DEAD?  No, it was a life then too.  Get an
argument.

>	*Life Is Not Always Independently Sustainable
>		Just because we can determine interutero that
>		a fetus will develop without a full brain has
>		no effect of the existance of human life...
>		only the resulting quality of that life
>		outside the womb.

Big revelation.

>		Also, the existence and "
>		"value" of interutero human life is not
>		diminished just because it is unsustainable
>		outside the womb without significant inter-
>		vention.  

Not diminished, just not as valuable as the woman herself.

>		          To bring this to light to the
>		"PRO_DEATH" advocates...

And who might they be?

>		                        a 12 week fetus 
>		weighs about 1 pound.  

And most pregnant women I've ever known, seen, or read about weigh a
considerable amount more than that.  You're not trying to claim that
*weight* is a determining factor in the value of human life?  Are you?

...

>	3.  Despite the fact that many children are awaiting
>		organ donations, this does not give us the
>		right to end one life to offer it to others.

So as long as it's respirating you would throw away 3 or 4 lives that
could be saved.  Is that correct?



Gordon
Pro-abortion, Pro-person, Pro-women's-rights and ex-boyfriend of Susan,
Muriel, Cathi, and Nora, and married to the sweetest woman in the world,
and darn proud of it.
-- 

The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Tyson's sentence
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:57:28 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.183153.10981@coopsol.com>, gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:
><1992Apr6.170902.1@fnalno.fnal.gov> holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov said:
>><1992Apr4.192255.6135@coopsol.com>, gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:
>>Err... Tyson was given six years, out of possible thirty.  WHat case are you
>>following?
>
>I believe Tyson was sentenced to 60 (it might have been thirty) years 
>*originally*, but that a lot of it was reduced by the judge.  Alton, the 
>guy sentenced to death was given 12 years, reduced to 2, for murder.
>
I posted the answer before with a reference from the Chicago Tribune.
10 year sentence
4 year suspended
That means he has a 6 year prison sentence.
But for each day of good behavior he gets one day of his sentence. 
So assuming he behaves 'good' every day, he will get out in 3 years.

After that he has 4 years of probation, which includes mandatory 
counseling and community service.

(60 years makes no sense, the max for the crime was 20).
(It would have been more if there was a weapon, or if it involved
kidnapping).

>Gordon
>-- 
>
>The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
>of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
>Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
From: zimmer@lonestar.utsa.edu (Nancy A. Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Life, Defined and Otherwise (Addendum)
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:40:35 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

If you want to believe because of your religious upbringing that suffering
enriches human life,  that's your right, but you do not have the right
to inflict your religious beliefs on other people who believe that a
woman who has been raped has suffered enough already without having to
go through the hell of giving birth to a child who will always remind her
of the rape.  Perhaps if you could understand what it is like to carry
a child in your body, and what that really means, you would understand
this.
Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: rpetsche@mrg.tmc.edu (Rolfe G. Petschek)
Subject: Re: more thoughts on a new slant to rape stats
Reply-To: rpetsche@mrg.CWRU.EDU (Rolfe G. Petschek)
Organization: CWRU Physics Department
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 13:52:04 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.125549.5847@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> rpetsche@mrg.CWRU.EDU (Rolfe G. Petschek) writes:

>Could you quote a source for 1/605 rape trials result in acquittal?  The

I meant conviction, of course, not acquittal (sorry, don't I wish)

>number I remember
>1/3, whether or not there was a "rape shield
>law".  I thought that this statistic was extraordinarily irrelevant as,
--
Rolfe G. Petschek			Petschek@cwru.bitnet
Associate Professor of Physics		rgp@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University		(216)368-4035 
Cleveland Oh 44106-7079
Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: roder@cco.caltech.edu (Brenda J. Roder)
Subject: Re: Tyson's sentence
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:29:19 GMT

gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:

>come along (after Kennedy, and Thomas's harrasment debacle).  Tyson has
>been found guilty, I don't dispute that.  But sixty years!  Heck, there
                                               ^^^^^
>are _murderers_ out there who get less than a third of that.  The guy
>sentenced to die this weekend in California served only two years for his
>first murder.

I believe it is six years not sixty.  Expected to be out in 3 if good behavior
every day, plus some community service maybe (don't remember for sure).
The six years is 10 years with 4 years suspended.

-- 
-- Brenda (roder@cobalt.caltech.edu)

Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: rpetsche@mrg.tmc.edu (Rolfe G. Petschek)
Subject: Re: Tyson's sentence
Reply-To: rpetsche@mrg.CWRU.EDU (Rolfe G. Petschek)
Organization: CWRU Physics Department
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 22:06:20 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.175728.12523@midway.uchicago.edu> gross@befvax.uchicago.edu writes:

>(60 years makes no sense, the max for the crime was 20).
>(It would have been more if there was a weapon, or if it involved
>kidnapping).

Tyson was convicted of one count of rape and two of forcible deviate
sexual conduct (?correct term?) the maximum for *each* of these crimes
is 20 years so the maximum possible term would have been 3x20=60 years to be
served consecutively. 

Actually he was sentenced to 10 years for each count, to be served 
concurrently for a total of 10 with, as Leon correctly notes 4 years
suspended and 1 day off for each day of good behavior.  However 60 does
make sense in this context and was in the papers after the conviction
and prior to the sentencing.  No sensible person actually expected the
maximum sentence to be passed.
--
Rolfe G. Petschek			Petschek@cwru.bitnet
Associate Professor of Physics		rgp@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University		(216)368-4035 
Cleveland Oh 44106-7079
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: fraternities
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:20:37 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <15APR199213520864@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>, aatresa@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline) writes:
> In article <1992Apr15.093914.5063@ac.dal.ca>, 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes...
> 
>>I also think that we have to change attitudes at a younger age. I saw a study 
>>on TV where 35% of high school boys thought it was ok to force sex on a drunk
>>girl. I think instead of following stupid threads about who perpertrates more
>>rapes than who, we ought to work together to change attitudes.
>> 
>>Mike 
> 
> I'll buy that, Mike.  Here in Ohio we've had two recent cases...one was a 
> twelve year old that raped a six year old.  I just have to wonder where 
> they learn it.  When *I* was twelve, I was still beating up the boys during 
> recess.
> I *know* that rape isn't about sex, it's about power.  But where does a 
> twelve year old boy learn that?
> 
> -- Teresa
> 
> 		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!

This whole fraternity thing has one good point; I got interested in talk.rape
I'm looking forward to seeing differing views on the subject.
One of the things I've been considering in the whole fraternity/rape thing
is maybe by the time get to college, they have this power thing deeply instilled
If that's the case, then maybe fraternities simply bring out that attitude.
There might be two effective ways of combatting the problem, then:
1) get to children at as early an age as possible, and educate them.
2) try to change the ideas of the grown-ups.

1) is going to be easier than 2), I think, because adults have had these
notions for years. Maybe it would be a good idea for all colleges to
require their students to attend rape seminars in randonly assigned
groups. That way, people with the same attitudes about rape would be randomly 
scattered. The views in each seminar would then be representative of the 
population at large, and it might be easier to sway those in the high risk
area.
Mike
From: ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Tyson's sentence
Date: 6 Apr 92 09:01:44 GMT
Organization: University of Scranton

In article <1992Mar29.015405.14898@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (David Ash) writes:
> In article <1992Mar28.080535.139362@cs.cmu.edu> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
> The issue of prison rape always concerns me because if we really
> believe that *no*one* deserves to be raped, why are we so silent on
> the topic of the rape which happens with great regularity in
> prisons?

	Because most Americans believe that criminals loose ALL of their rights
when they are convicted and they deserve everything that they get, including
rape. You can see this in the push for limiting appeals and the death penalty,
isn't this the ultimate loss of rights? You can see it in the scorn that you 
recieve when you defend those rights that are afforded these people by those 
who cry "criminals have more rights than victims!"
	We wherehouse criminal instead of reforming them as we claim to be 
doing or we used to claim this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave D. Cawley		   |	Where a social revolution is pending and,
University Of Scranton	   |	for whatever reason, is not accomplished,
ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu	   |	reaction is the alternative.
ddc1@SCRANTON		   |				-Daniel De Leon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xref: sparky talk.rape:876 talk.abortion:14644
From: gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga)
Newsgroups: talk.rape,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Life, Defined and Otherwise (Addendum)
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:52:38 GMT
Organization: Stay Awake Software

<1992Apr8.034742.19159@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bi477@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil Sherman) said:
>Apparently, in my last posting I was not explicit enough regard-
>ing the connection of my last posting to rape as the main focus
>of this newsgroup...therefore:
>
>	4.  As horrible as is the crime of rape, it does not
>		in and of itself excuse a subsequent abortion.

Maybe to you.  So don't have an abortion if you are ever raped.

>		I really do not know the answer to how one 
>		might deal with a pregnancy by rape, except that
>		since all things are part of God's plan, perhaps
>		that child has a very special place in the world.

And if you are an Atheist, or a follower of a different religion?  I know
you probably don't recognize us as being humans since we don't follow your
god, but we do have our morals and beliefs.  Kindly get your sword away
from our throats.

>		More likely though, the woman who through her
>		suffering still brings that child into the world
>		will receive many graces for having done God's
>		will despite great difficulty.

She'll be waiting a long time then.  Nice of your god to get her raped.
What a guy!

Note: cross posted to talk.abortion since it kinda addresses both issues.


Gordon
Pro-abortion, Pro-person, Pro-women's-rights and ex-boyfriend of Susan,
Muriel, Cathi, and Nora, and married to the sweetest woman in the world,
and darn proud of it.
-- 

The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 10 Apr 1992 14:31:28 CDT
From: Swoosh <U55650@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: how to support a friend who has been raped ?

Dear Lucas,
Having researched rape for too many years I have a number of suggestions.  Firs
t, non-judgmental listening is important, without saying what she should have d
one. Second find a feminist bookstore or publication (ISIS comes out of Switzer
land I believe) and ask for the name of a good rape crisis line, or better yet
have her call.  Someone trained can speak with her and assure her that it is hi
s fault not hers.  I do not know Swiss law but under US law we have civil as we
ll as criminal suits, and sexual harassment is a crime.  Surely this is sexual
harassment as well as rape.  She  might talk with some female employees where s
he works to see if anything like that has happenned to them.  If there are seve
ral women there is a good basis for a lawsuit.    The man is a menace--an explo
iter of the less powerful.  I wouldn't waste any time worrying about whether re
venge is appropriate.  What is important is to heal and to prevent him from doi
ng it to anyone else.  I'm using my friends account because mine is being activ
ated by I am Professor Pauline Bart, E - mail address U17334@UICVM.UIC.EDU
author Stopping Rape: Successful Survival Strategies.
From: aatresa@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: fraternities
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:52:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: lims01.15APR199213520864
Organization: Yeah, *right* !
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr15.093914.5063@ac.dal.ca>, 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes...

>I also think that we have to change attitudes at a younger age. I saw a study 
>on TV where 35% of high school boys thought it was ok to force sex on a drunk
>girl. I think instead of following stupid threads about who perpertrates more
>rapes than who, we ought to work together to change attitudes.
> 
>Mike 

I'll buy that, Mike.  Here in Ohio we've had two recent cases...one was a 
twelve year old that raped a six year old.  I just have to wonder where 
they learn it.  When *I* was twelve, I was still beating up the boys during 
recess.
I *know* that rape isn't about sex, it's about power.  But where does a 
twelve year old boy learn that?

-- Teresa

		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!
Newsgroups: talk.rape