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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:18:45 -0500
From:         "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Rape; violation, sex or whatever...

The following is NOT an attack on either Richardy nor Missy.

Date: 31 Aug 1992 14:16:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: rf35 <Richard_A_FYFE@UMAIL.UMD.EDU>
Subject: RE: Rape as violence or sex.

>In response to my comments rejecting the thesis that some rapes
>are motivated by sexual desire, Missy P 2 B responds as follows:

I think that Richard is partially right. There ARE rapes that are
sexually motivated, and there ARE rapes that are done for
power/revenge reasons, or so I believe.

>>Richard:

>>I don't know what you're reading, but it's wrong.

I suspect that Missy, like myself, has some strong feelings about
this because it happened to her, though I could be reading the
sub-texts of her message in error.

>Actually, I suspect that the main reason you find my comments
>mistaken is because of a tendency, common among those who advocate
>that rape is only motivated by a desire to exercise power and
>authority over another, and not a desire for sexual gratification, is
>because of an oversimplified notion of sexual desire and sexual
>orientation.

Well, I suggest that you are both right. I was raped at 14, by 5
other boy/men, now over thirty years ago, and it was totally to gain
power over me, and HURT me, and humiliate me. Sexual gratification
was a byproduct of the process.

>Sexual orientation consists of more than simply a desire to reach
>orgasm.  It is far more specific than this, defining the
>physiological characteristics of a preferred sexual partner, and the
>type of behavior one is prefers to engage in with that individual, if
>one seeks sexual activity with a person at all. Even this is a
>variable factor.  Just as a person may prefer a male, female, child,
>or inanimate object one can have a preference for certain types of
>activities.  Many rapists have a sexual orientation which favors
>sex with an unwilling partner.

The last sentence here MAY be true in my case, I believe the act was
a way of being a dominant person that included preying on unwilling,
submissive, or physically cowed victims - at the time I was attacked,
I weighed 95 pounds and was 5'1", while the smallest of my attackers
was 5'8", and weighed 160. The main rapist in that group had a habit
and practice of cowing and dominating young boys by rape, and he was
5'10" and weighed 240.

>Now, this may be construed as a desire to harm and/or a desire to
>exercise power and authority over another.  However, there is no
>contradiction in saying that the person has a SEXUAL preference for
>exercising power and authority over others.  As with all other sexual
>preferences, the urge to act on this desire can be treated using
>methods which are effective in reducing other types of sexual
>desires.

This is probably true.

>Anyway, if you wish to challenge my claim, I am wondering what
>evidence you have for believing that I am wrong.

I'm not challenging your claim. I believe both of you have elements
of rightness in what you say about this awful subject. I would add
that even though this is painful for me to discuss, I believe Travis
is out of his mind to say that rape is not "violation" no matter the
gender of victim. Every women I've ever known who was raped, and the
three men besides myself I've known who were raped DEFINITELY
believed and felt that they had been violated. I was so humiliated
that I had to fight my way through half a ward of fellow emotionally
disturbed patients to get the derision to stop, AND severely injure
all five of my assailants. At the time, I tried to kill three of
them, figuring I had already lost everything in the way of dignity.
Fortunately, for me, I failed.

I believe some rape is motivated by a rather twisted sexual desire or
emotionally impotent mindset, and other rape is shheerly for the
purpose of domination, hurt or humiliation. I hope I've not shocked
too many of you, the point of saying anything is to say that there is
NO way to generalize about this behavior, and to say that for 99.9%
of the VICTIMS, the act IS violation!

>Richard A. Fyfe
>rf35@umail.umd.edu

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