HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: v999saum@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Varnavas A. Lambrou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: TURKISH INVASION IN CYPRUS 1974..cont..
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:25:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

ARGAKI: One of the villages occupied by the Turkish Army.

"To complete the factual account of what Argaki suffered: seven young men
born in or married into the village died or disappeared during the invasion.
Several others have been incapacitated or disfigured by wounds. There are
well authenticated reports of sexual assaults on three elderly persons. The
priest of Argaki comes from nearby Kyra village; his mother was killed when
Turkish soldiers fired through the door of her house. Her husband set out for 
Argaki to bring his son, the priest, to give a Christian burial to his own
mother. The old man disappeared, and has not been seen since.

One can count people dead, wounded, or assaulted, and to write five or seven
or two gives an appearance of concreteness, of factual reality, objectivity,
call it what you like, to the events. Here is a photograph of a corpse. There
is a scarred face. But how can we convey objectively terror, anxiety, 
humiliation, anger, grief, disorientation, emptiness? These emotions were
experienced by Argaki villagers (as by other refugees) and they have told me in
their own words about them.
..
The diaspora of the Greek Cypriot Argakiotes means that a link between people 
and resources has been broken, a destructive, aggressive act, the opposite of
the creativity which constructed the community for a very long time. I do not 
know how long. There is a record of a village called Argaki in 1825, but in 
1630, the Dutch cartographer Blau shows a community called Ariati on roughly 
the place where Argaki is today. The construction of Argaki took thousands of 
days; the destruction only one."

P.Loizos "The Uprooting of a Cypriot Village"




"Desolation and destruction mark many areas. Whole villages and towns and cities
are empty of people, who fled their homes in fear of advancing Turkish forces.
The 15,000 to 20,000 Greeks who remain are being held as virtual hostages 
-confined to their villages or elsewhere, and usually separated from family 
members and without adequate food and water and medical care.
..
Government controlled areas of the island have been inundated with refugees from
the north. Since the invasion on July 20, over 200,000 men, women and children
-at least a third of the population -have sought shelter wherever they could 
find it -in open fields, under trees along the roadsides, and in schools,
monasteries and public buildings."

Senator Edward M.Kennedy
Preface to Study Mission Report of the US Senate Subcommittee to Investigate
Problems Connected with Refugees and Escapees.
14 October, 1974.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ikdiplas@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de (Konstantin Diplas)
Subject: Re:GREEK INVASION IN CYPRUS 1974..cont..  Serdar Argic        
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:56:09 GMT
Organization: Universitaet Bielefeld, Technische Fakultaet.

Hello my dear Serdar Argic .When I read your letter,here in that Group,
I had the big wish to Fuck your asshole.
I don't know where you got this "Information" about 'Greek Invasion in Cyprus'
Maybe it's only a build of your imagination .
I have some turkish friends here in germany.We talked often about cyprus.
One of my turkish friends was born in cyprus,but he never told me about 
a  'Greek Invasion in Cyprus'.He only knews the 'Turkish Invasion in Cyprus'.
Poeple like you are very dangerus,we must clean our social society of poeple 
like you.You tell lyes and some analphabetic poeple (Turkey have many) believe you.
You are set the racist fire in the minds of that poeple.
Here in Germany we have this kind of poeple.
The ideas of that are like your ideas. The only diffrent is,they hate all
foreign poeple whor aren't have blue eyes and blond hair.
In Berlin was murdered a turkish man from these poeple.
These poeple called Nazis here .I thing you know what this means.
I made the equal between you and the Nazis,because you both tell only lyes
not facts.
The Nazis here,have an IQ=80 or less ans maybe you are not higher.

                                                   Die Kosta !



Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: CNN recognizes Macedonian independence?
From: cpbuehrer@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Date: 10 Jan 93 22:29:19 -0500
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

> 	Perhaps the OFFICIAL recognition of Skopje as "Macedonia" is
> at hand and we are being conditioned for it.

Nifty!  That's my interpretation of the situation as well...I was just
wondering what other people thought.

--Dennis
From: v999saum@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Varnavas A. Lambrou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: TURKISH INVASION IN CYPRUS 1974..cont..
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:22:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

INVASION 1974


On the morning of 20th July 1974, Turkey announced to the world that she was
mounting a "peace-keeping operation" in Cyprus.


"Peacekeeping"

Though Turkish planes dropped leaflets on Cyprus promising peace and friendship,
the operation was code-named "ATTILA" by the Turkish military command.

The Turkish forces landed near Kyrenia. They killed civilians, raped women and
looted.
Meanwhile Turkish airforce planes screaming low all over Cyprus bombed 
hospitals, homes and hotels and burned forests. They used napalm.

The use of terror tactics and indiscriminate cruelty was deliberate. Turkey
wanted to grab territory without its population. And the methods were effective.
They terrified the civilians who came under the Turkish Army's jackboot. They 
fled.


"Restoring Constitutional Order"


The constitution of Cyprus, of which Turkey was one of the three guarantors
provides for a unitary, independent, territorially integral Cyprus.
The Treaty of Guarantee of 1960 between the Republic of Cyprus on the one part
and Greece, Turkey and United Kingdom on the other states:

"Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom...recognize the independence, territorial
integrity and security of the Republic of Cyprus, and also the state of affairs
established by the basic Articles of its Constitution."

The treaty also provides that:

"In so far as common or concerted action may not prove possible, each of the
three guaranteeing powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim
of re-establishing the state of affairs created by the present Treaty."

But all this was a scrap of paper for the Government of Turkey.
By the 23rd July, 1974, Turkish troops held 3% of the territory of Cyprus.
There were about 5000 refugees who had fled their homes. The United Nations
Security Council had met and urgently called for an end to all military
intervention in the Republic of Cyprus.

After a United Nations supervised ceasefire was established on July 23rd, after
the UN Security Council had called on Turkey to withdraw its forces from Cyprus,
while a peace conference was going on in Geneva, Turkish troops backed by armour
steadily expanded the corridor they had earlier occupied, capturing village 
after village and emptying it of its inhabitants.
The small Cypriot armed force fought desperately. They knew that it was
conquest that they were facing. But disorganized and betrayed by the coup,
armed with First World War rifles, no armour and no airforce, their fighting
was more of an expression of Cypriot determination to remain free, rather
than an effective counter to Turkey's well-armed military might.

On the 12th of August, the Turkish army mounted a second full scale offensive.
Three thousand Cypriots were killed, and eighteen years later 1619 are still
missing. 37% of the area of Cyprus came under the Turkish military 
occupation.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: old greek
From: vrn@md2.huji.ac.il (Y. MELNIK 8036)
Date: 10 Jan 1993 16:03 +0200
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Hi all, a friend of mine need to use old Greek and Hebrew and/or English.
We tried Intext but few letters missing. can some one help???
Thanks, Yehezkel.
From: gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Greece and the EC (Greg 1)
Date: 9 Jan 93 11:38:20 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne

In article <1993Jan8.181607.21001@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan8.144219@imhfhp16.epfl.ch> gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis) writes:
|> >
|> 
|> Spain and Portugal are net beneficiaries in direct transfers
|> like Greece. If their performance as economies was better
|> than Greece doesn't mean that EC lost from us.
|> 
|> Besides, the impact of EC entering came to their economy after they
|> had absorbed the oil crisis. Greece was hit with the EC challenge
.......

You forgot to mention that Saturn's postion in the sky was in
a position unfavourable to Greek EC entry.


|> 
|> 
|> >>Yugo Kalaboki? Yes check the Italians ones :-).
|> >
|> >Horror! What advertisment for Greek morals.
|> 
|> 
|> No advertisement at all. Just don't selectively single out Greeks.
|> 
|> Just as a personal detail here: When I was here in 1989, I met
|> a Spaniard who was doing his postdoc. As we became friends very
|> soon we were exchanging information about our countries. One
|> day I told him about the Yugo Kalaboki and asked him if he had 
|> heard anything in spanish media. His response was a big lough!
|> He says (informally of course): "You should have made him a hero!
|> Come on, we in Spain have had several similar cases and in public
|> opinion this is the right way. For that reason we are in the EC !!!"
|> Of course I didn't agree with him and said that "good trust makes
|> good businesses".
|> 
|> 
|> Gr

HOROR again. This man cannot see the immorality of what he says.

sg
From: v999saum@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Varnavas A. Lambrou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: TURKISH INVASION IN CYPRUS 1974..cont..
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:23:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

SEGREGATION OF THE POPULATION

For years before the invasion, Turkish governments and others favouring
the partition of Cyprus had propounded the cynical opinion that "Greeks
and Turks cannot live together". This ignorant and racist view was
propounded as the mental equivalent of partition. After the invasion the
Turkish Government had the opportunity to segregate the population of Cyprus
according to its ethnic origins. In South Africa apartheid and the spatial
segregation of the black population into Bantustans was necessary for the 
dominance of the white minority over the black majority. In Cyprus the
establishment of spatial segregation between the Greek Cypriot majority (82%
of the population) and the Turkish Cypriot minority (18% of the population)
was deemed by the Turkish Government a necessary prelude to asserting the 
"equality" of the two communities, a step towards the domination of Cyprus by 
Turkey.

The fact is that for centuries Greek and Turkish Cypriots people had lived
interspersed in the towns and villages of the island. This for Attila was a
demographic barrier to partition.

Some 10 years before 1974 invasion a secret Turkish organization, TMT, had
tried to segregate the Turkish Cypriots in enclaves. After the invasion, all
Turkish Cypriots were forced to move into the area occupied by Turkish troops.

Presure from TMT, threats of the Turkish army to move to wherever Turkish
Cypriots lived, the desire to reunite with family members, forced Turkish
Cypriots to move from their homes in many parts of Cyprus, albeit very 
reluctantly, to the Turkish occupied area by the end of 1975.


"In Paphos today, where some 500 Turkish Cypriots were being transferred
to the north, the main square resounded with the sobbing and wailing of 
elderly women abandoning their homes after a lifetime. Greek and Turkish
Cypriots mingled easily with no apparent hostility toward each other. Many
of the departing Turkish Cypriots handed over the keys of their houses
to the Greek Cypriot refugees, with apparent pleasure, "to look after them
well", as one said."
		Washington Post 11 August, 1975
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12024 soc.culture.turkish:13769
From: Spiros Triantafyllopoulos <c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: (repost) why is soc.culture.turkish free of Arxids?
Date: 4 Jan 1993 08:56:01 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

(I used my little mail program to cross post, apparently utexas has
fixed the gateway so I can crosspost using the To: and Cc: headers)

It has been interesting that our friend Arxid has not been posting
his droppings in soc.culture.turkish for a while now. Meanwhile,
I got a megabyte's worth of Arxid's and an itch to dump them on
soc.culture.turkish, all with a line at the end saying that this 
should also be cross-posted to soc.culture.turkish.
 
Can anyone give me a good reason NOT to? 
 
Spiros
--
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    "Ne mutlu anti-Argic diyene ?
c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com                 Ne mutlu anti-Mutlu diyene !"
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: Vacationing in Greece (when?)
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:14:26 GMT

drg@candidus.ma30.bull.com (Daniel R. Guilderson) writes:

>I'm planning on making a first-ever visit to Greece later this year
>and I would like to know what the best time of the year to go is.

   All in all, the Greek tourist season seems to go like this:

   April - not many tourists, just a few trickling in, likely to be too
cool for the beach.

   May - tourist season starting, popular destinations starting to get
crowded though lesser-known spots likely to be fairly empty.  Amazing
wild flowers in rural areas.  Weather usually good enough for the beach,
but in some years it can be too cool for swimming almost all month.

   June - perhaps the best bet, lots of tourists though lesser known
places are not too crowded yet, almost always warm enough for the beach.

   July-August - peak season, popular destinations a zoo, even lesser
known ones can be very crowded, very hot, water shortages on many
islands.

   September - sort of like June, warm, tourists tapering off, starting
to get dark early.

   October - sort of like May, quiet, weather may or may not be warm.

   November - March.  Winter, not many tourists, many island tourist
facilities closed, cold -- though many people in Greece say every winter
that the cold is "unusual!" 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Subject: Re: Greece and the EC (Greg 1)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:22:16 GMT


Sorry, I forgot something :-)!


In article <1993Jan8.144219@imhfhp16.epfl.ch> gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis) writes:
>
>                             Companies that they cannot stand
>competition are worthless.


This is a very reasonable answer but it is wrong. Why? Because it is
incomplete. And according to Poper's axioms for an assertion to be
logical (scientific) it needs to be able to leave open the possibility
to be disproved.

The factor which is missing from your assertion and which would
transform it into a logical one is the TIME constraint.

If a company loses big for one year, would you consider it as worthless?
God's forbid! Then all the companies would have been worthless...:-).
What about 2 years? Or 3 years? You can go on "ad infinitum" as long
as you can persuade investors that eventually your company will recover
and they will be paid back their long term investments into providing
cash to permit you survival during the critical years.

How long will be this period of "acceptance" has almost a mythical
answer; all the big financial houses have established theirown more
or less standards, but actually down in the very, very, very, very
end (:-)) this depends on the policies about the interest rates
for long term borrowing which the stronger central (reserve) bank
sets (let's say US and Germany in the west).

Periods, where significant parts of the economy were long term
subsidized and protected, you can find in all the modern developed
countries. The most recent is Japan and Corea, but actually the
bigest historically example is the US.... Yes! Almost during the
whole 19th century US manufacturing was protected from outside
(European) competition, such as to permit enough time for their
companies to develop enough within the huge internal market, before
foreign competition was permitted!!!

Again easy answers for every situation don't exist. It depends
on the specific economic setup.

OK, enough for today :-).

Gr
From: gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Greece and the EC (Lambros)
Date: 7 Jan 93 11:45:20 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne

In article <1993Jan5.231402.27474@wuecl.wustl.edu>, ls1@cec1.wustl.edu
 (Lambros Skartsis) writes:

>There has been a blast without the reports being false!

Blast seems to imply taking aim at somebody. Some of the reports
may indeed be "skewed", but to any honest person the first
concern must be the truth or otherwise of the claims made.

>>No. Only sentimental ones.
          -----------
>I sure hope you are kidding there Spyro.

What else could it be?  What would the richer 9 EC countries want
from Greece.


>With apologies for interfering in your discussion,

Delighted that you wrote. Plz do some more. I hope that others do
write as well.

>L. Skartsis

sg



Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: santas@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas)
Subject: Re: Greece and the EC (oil?)
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 03:53:04 GMT


gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis) writes:
>gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis) writes:
>>
>>Switzerland : no colonies, no natural resource, very independent & rich.
>
>This is true that they were not
>colonials. Natural resources in the form of energy and raw mate-
>rials didn't have. But they had the resources in the form of
>geoeconomics; they had always access to very proxime markets
>which were colonially boosted (France, Germany, Italy), and even
>more importantly: they have the unbelievable luck to be without
>war in their land since 1200 (exact?). When all the others had
>built and destroyed their country one million times, Swiss had
>the *luck* to keep accumulating capital (both in material form and
>in management and educational form).

Switzerland was not a rich country as UK or Holland were in the previous
centuries. However the banking system introduced in the 20th century,
and the fact that it has not been destroyed by the two WW, together
with a wise management of the _abudant_ capital in investements in the 
american continent, enables it to show a strong economy.

>>The UK is (was) self-sufficient in oil and arguably this  had 
>>deleterious effects on its economy.
>
>Unique! Having wealth is considered deleterious! Actually if Britain
>didn't have North sea oil would be now in worse economic situation than Spain.
>
>Norway - which has applied for membership - is an exporter
>but noboby expects to get any free oil.
>But it expects to get a healthy and good economy strongly helped by
>the oil (and other energy) reserves.

I remember some 20 years ago, when I traveled to Norway, that the roads were
so bad and the infrastructure almost non existant. However, 7 years ago, 
_everything_ was completely different, and _all_ because of the oil
(fishing does not bring so much money...): modern buildings, flourishing
business, excellent highways, facts which the Sweedish neighbours were admiring.

If there were no oil in S. Arabia, who would consider it as a vital economy?
(the exception of Rumania, proves the rule :-)

Filippos Santas
From: ls1@cec1.wustl.edu (Lambros Skartsis)
Subject: Re: Greece and the EC
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:14:02 GMT

In article: <1993Jan5.170542@imhfhp16.epfl.ch>
 gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis) writes:

>In article <1993Jan1.071804.17460@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, g
>d8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis) writes:
>
>>Spyros has been following the western blast against Greece's EC
>>participation for the last few years, and he justifies it in their term.
>
>What do u mean by "blast" Gregory? Are u saying that the reports
>were false? Where do u get your information from?
>Since Greece has signed a number of agreements with other
>countries and a certain standard of conduct is expected of her,
>it is legitimate that other EC countries should complain if they
>are dissatisfied. The implied "sinister plot" theory seems to me
>far fetched.

There has been a blast without the reports being false! To be more 
precise, Greece has pretty much "screwed up" since it entered the EEC
for well known reasons (see PASOK/Socialist experiments etc.) - ironically,
doing far worse than it was doing before its entrance (when its superb 
performance in rate of development etc. was mostly what allowed her to
enter the community and not love-affairs as Spyros implies below).
The blasting, nonetheless, 
is still unacceptable and I wouldn't be
surprised if it were a part of some scenario, as Gregory implied,
although I wouldn't be able to speculate on it.
Let me clarify that by "blasting" I am not talking about what is said 
by EEC diplomats but by the screaming and handwaving of some newpapers and other
media (see "the Economist" or "the European" were it is bordering pure
nonsense).
 
>
>>But Spyros, look what kind of contradictions you have said:
>>According to your reasoning we conclude:
>
>>1. Greece was never economically attractive for the EC.
>
>True.
>
>> Only political-military reasons prevailed for our acceptance in the EC.
>
>No. Only sentimental ones.
          ----------- 

I sure hope you are kidding there Spyro.

Anyway, I am not going to argue much more on this topic. The discussion 
about the "accomplishments" of Greece in the EEC is extremely interesting
and rather sensitive since, at least for several years, we can surely
be talking about failure and more specifically,
 the direct or indirect transfer
of funds designed for infrastracture to private consumption/invsible
economic activity. This, however, represents a sudden and steep change 
of the greek economic performance which is
clearly associated with a certain political party/economic theory applied
in the 80's  and  
not with "eternal greek characteristics" as is often arrogantly implied.  
We all are quite upset by the above and I am the first to point it out,
although continuous Greece-bashing will not make anyone of us
sound more sophisticated.  

With apologies for interfering in your discussion,
L. Skartsis

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek