From: stef@Apple.COM (Stef Jones)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: The "first" "move" (was Re: A R C )
Date: 11 Apr 92 05:52:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: apple.65239
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

Kiran Wagle writes:

>stef@Apple.COM (Stef Jones) writes:
>
>Indeed. And if Warren Farrell's claim that there are 150 initiatives
>between eye contact and sexual contact is true, you have a lot more to
>worry about than that.

150! Wow. Sometimes one can go through them pretty damn fast...
Does Farrell suggest that it is the man who must make all of 
these initiatives?

>Again, depends on the person, but i think [...]
If it depends on the person what the biggest risk is, then 
it seems difficult to state with any certainty that asking 
someone out on a first date is a bigger risk than anything
else....which is what a lot of men seem to be claiming.

>>What if I were to invite you to a jazz concert in Monterey -- I would
>>have made the first move but it would be you flying 2000 miles. 
>It would have to be a great jazz concert. Squid and chocolate cake at
>India Joze, on the other hand...
How about truffle soup with pigeon essences at Chez Panisse?

>>What is the bigfuckingdeal about a "first move"? 
>The risk of rejection. If there is no bigfuckingdeal about "first
>moves" why are some people shy? Shy people often don't make first
>contact with _anyone_, let alone romantic partners.
Oh, so first moves are only a problem for shy people? 

>>There are so many risks involved in getting and staying in a relationship. 
>But the risk of rejection is one of the biggest, psychologically.
My point is the risk of rejection is there at any point in the relationship,
not just when you first ask someone out. If there are 150 initiatives
between eye contact and sexual contact, imagine how many there are between
sexual contact and deciding that you want to be with this person forever.
A rejection might occur anywhere along the line.

>>In my experience, asking someone to go out with me for the first time
>>is one of the smaller risks. 
>And what are some of the larger risks? 
Expressing dissatisfaction or another negative emotion for the first time 
to a new romantic partner.

>>In my experience it often seems that they *do* magically get together...
>>that is, the magic is in the fact that whoever ends up doing the asking,
>>them or me, doesn't feel afraid of rejection because they know they
>>won't be rejected. 
>
>Can you state this with certainty about the others, or just about
>yourself? And can you say that you were 100% free of fear of rejection?
>
I'm not saying that every relationship is like this, but I know people
who felt as if their relationship "just happened" and didn't involve a
big initial effort on the part of either partner. I am never 100% free
of fear of rejection, but these particular situations did not involve
*more* fear than other social contacts.

>>I don't feel as if I have gotten an "aggressive"
>>notch on my belt if I ask out someone whom I know wants to go out with me.
>
>How do you know? Do you read their mind? 
No, their body language and their words.

>(Or have you never in your
>life gotten mixed signals?)
Yes, I've gotten mixed signals. 

Stef                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
stef@apple.com       It is the time you have wasted for your rose
                     that makes your rose so important.       Saint-Exupery
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: soc.singles,soc.men,soc.women