HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sundinKC@dna.lth.se (Anders Sundin)
Subject: Re: Myths and monopoly
Organization: Organic Chemistry 2, Lund University, Sweden
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:26:17 GMT

Tomas Eriksson writes:
>I also do not see where your arguments are leading. The selling-out
>(about time!) of a steel company the Swedish state is majority owner of
>is the logical extension of socialisation in the 1910's and 1920's ???

I quoted this article because it is dishonest of Per Westerberg to use
SSAB this as an example of anti social-democratic policy.
The centre-right government's privatisation of SSAB was not a blow to the
Social-democratic industrial policy because it was the same centre-right
government who socialized SSAB in -78.
Per Westerberg may think, wish, or pretend that it was the Social-democratic
party who socialized SSAB, the wharfs, Datasaab, etc., but it was not.

BTW, I did buy an option for SSAB stock. It was a too good an offer to pass.
-- 
 Anders Sundin                e-mail: sundinKC@dna.lth.se
 Organic Chemistry 2                  Anders.Sundin@orgk2.lth.se
 Lund Institute of Technology         ok2aps@seldc52.bitnet
 P.O. Box 124                 phone:  +46 46 108214
 S-22100 Lund, Sweden         fax:    +46 46 108209
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kkr42091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (QUEEN ZENOBIA!)
Subject: Re: AA and town names
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:12:10 GMT

andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson) writes:

>regular spelling, though the Ostrobothnian dialects may introduce

ya... i can attest to the fact that the ostrobothnian (pohajanmaa: and dont even try to correct the extra a in that word that is how it is pronounced ;)) 
accent is bizarre.
seeing as how that is where i first started learning finnish, i ended up putting
extra vowels everywhere.
and saying strange things like en tie for en tied{
it was quite a while before i learned that kahvi did not have an extra 'a'
after the 'h'
quite a fun dialect to learn :)
*grin*
-kimberli

-- 
*******************************************************************************
*Kimberli K Roan          * "I have heard the echoes in the dark, * IRC: good *
*901 W Main -Bsmt.        * dim and distant voices of the past,   * luck in   *
*Urbana, Il USA 61801     * and I've seen so far into the night,  * finding me*
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Subject: Re: Question: Travel times in Scandanavia
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 07:07:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.132503.16202@gdunix.gd.chalmers.se>, co@bildsun1.mednet.gu.se (Christer Olsson) writes:
|> 
|> I think you need 4-5 hours between Oslo and Stockholm. 
|> 
|> I`ve droven between Gothenburg and Stockholm in 3 hours, but in
|> normal speeds, you need five hours.
|> 
--

I think the distance between Oslo and Gothenburg is approximately
300 km. At "normal" speed ("normal" traffic) this should mean about
4 hours.

When looking at a map I find that the distance between Oslo and
Stockholm may be approximately 400 km. This should mean about 5 -
5 1/2 hours (?).

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Termodynamics |
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,no.ef
From: oysteint@ifi.uio.no (\ystein Tvedten)
Subject: Re: Nordic Union (Once more...)
Keywords: EF, Nordic Union
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 16:53:13 GMT
Originator: oysteint@yrsa.ifi.uio.no


> As this is a no.* group we really ought to talk (or type) Norwegian...
> At least we're free from ae, oe and aa problems, but on the other hand
> this writing English to discuss Norways attitude towards a European Union
> may be seen as almost accepting the need for common language, etc etc. 
> Saa jeg hopper like godt over til norsk. Har sett at det er noen svensker
> som leser gruppa. Skriv gjerne svensk !

Uhm. this is being crossposted to soc.culture.nordic also.....

Oystein.
From: dbg@pnet01.cts.com (Dave Gresham)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Norway Auto/Ferry Information Needed
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:16:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: crash.1992Jul21.161607.20285
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA

Hello,

   I am going to be in Norway for a couple weeks starting September 6, 1992.
I will be using a rental car and am no doubt going to have to be using some
ferries to get around.  I was wondering if anyone has a source or knows
what kind of prices/how often/how long these ferries are for the citys
listed below:

      Linge to Eisdal
      Geiranger to Hellesylt
      Hellesylt to Strein
      Fjerland to Balestrand
      Balestrand to Flam

Another questions is: Is it possible to travel between Andalsnes (or
Alesund) to Strein in one day with sightseeing thrown in?)

thanks for any help!

dbg@pnet01.cts.com
From: einari@rhi.hi.is (Einar Indridason)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: POLL: 8-bit characters?
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:13:49 GMT



Ok, I'm trying again.  This time by following up to the original article 
(as I did last time I think.)

I have also sent this message directly by email to tt@tarzan.jyu.fi, to see
if the news software does it right and/or the mail software?


In soc.culture.nordic tt@tarzan.jyu.fi writes:

>Can you (and would you like to) read these:
> (aouAOU with " on top),  (a with-ring),  (ae),  (slashed o), 
> (eth & thorn).

What I see is:

(aouAOU with " on top), lower-case a with-ring, uppercase ae, lower-case
and uppercase slashed o
and uppercase and lower case edth.

I do not see:  the uppercase A with-circle, lowercase ae, or the thorns.


Humm.  This is a bit wierd.


Ok.  let's test it from me and out:

	( 'a 'e 'y 'u 'i 'o "o edth ae thorn)
and now the Uppercase version of the same:

	( 'A 'E 'Y 'U 'I 'O "O EDTH AE THORN)



How do you receive it?

-- 
einari@rhi.hi.is
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jmarttila@abo.fi (Fast-Eddie Felson)
Subject: Re: Finnish question
Organization: Turku School of Economics
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:10:13 GMT

In article <MJH.92Jul27161359@stekt1.oulu.fi>, mjh@stekt1.oulu.fi (Mauri Haikola) writes:
> In article <9207271145.AA10264@Aragorn> ct@dde.dk (Claus Tondering) writes: 
>> ISO standard 6937 mentions that the Finnish language uses two characters
>> that look like S and Z with a small v above (a hacek accent). 
>> I have never seen any Finnish text that uses these two characters.
>> Does Finnish use them? Or has Finnish used them in the past?
> 
> There is an authority in Finland called Kielitoimisto (Language
> Agency?) according to which we do have the accented s character, used
> in words like "shakki" (chess) or "Tshekkoslovakia" (you know..) to
> replace the "sh". It isn't used very widely though, probably because
> the typing equipment usually doesn't have such a character available,
> and so the use of "sh" instead is far more common, even though the
> correct spelling would theoretically require using the accented s
> character.
> 
> I have never seen or heard of the use of accented Z in the Finnish
> language. 

	To my knowledge Finnish language has never had those two characters,
	but they have been applied in some names of foreign origin. The
	current "official" spelling for the "sh" or so is plain "s" which
	turns the words to "sakki" and "Tsekkoslovakia". This is due to the
	urge for changing all Finnish words to a more Finnish form - sort
	of verbal finlandization O:P
	The original Finnish language doesn't apply S's with a v on (or sh's) 
	or accented Z's and if there has been such in use that's only because
	of ignorance of the right spelling or just trying to make the text
	look better with these strange characters.
	When I was a kid the usage of S with a v on was quite common and 
	even now you can see SH used instead of it. This might be because 
	in the past the correct forms had not been that widely known. 
	Looks like Kielitoimisto had raised its profile a bit during the
	recent years O:)	
    _______________________________________________________________________
    Jouni Marttila - Yo-kyl{ 11 B 25, 20540 Turku, FINLAND - +358 21 374624
         jmarttila@finabo.abo.fi - jmarttila@finabo - abovax::jmarttila
From: sooz@iastate.edu (Susan F Bradley)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:57:17 GMT
Organization: Dept of English -- IOWA STATE UNIV

In <1992Jul24.142512.1@abo.fi> jmarttila@abo.fi (Fast-Eddie Felson) writes:

>In article <1992Jul23.104538.26285@klaava.Helsinki.FI>, viljanen@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lea Viljanen) writes: 
>>>That reminds me of another problem: I've often noticed that the local
>>>population on many of the tourists sites in Europe have a problem telling
>>>the difference between Danes, Swedes, and Norwegians. Often they assume
>>>they're all Swedish, and we get the blame for how our neighbors are behaving
>>>abroad.

>> That confusion may be planned... I've heard several stories of 
>> Finnish tourists abroad, who have said they were Swedes when
>> somebody complained about them.

>	Might be O:)
>	When I was traveling in Europe with a friend of mine a year ago
>	it was quite common in Germany that we were thought to be Americans,
>	in Berlin one guy thought we were US Army soldiers having holiday O;).
>	In English speaking countries where the people could more easily detect
>	our accent we were thought to be Germans since the German and Finnish
>	accent seems to be somewhat alike. 
>	Of course our nationality occasionally changed so that the reputation
>	of our beloved country wouldn't be endangered O;). In southern Europe
>	it's no problem being an American, a Swede or a German...
>    _______________________________________________________________________
>    Jouni Marttila - Yo-kyl{ 11 B 25, 20540 Turku, FINLAND - +358 21 374624
>         jmarttila@finabo.abo.fi - jmarttila@finabo - abovax::jmarttila

   Do you mean to tell me that, in addition to our own poor reputation as 
tourists, there are boisterous Finns roaming the Continent, adding to our woes?
Sheesh, that's all we need! :-)

Sooz
Iowa State University
sooz@iastate.edu
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Reading about viking. (Was: Ro"da Orm)
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:05:45 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <ANDERS.92Jul27231604@lise4.lise.unit.no> anders@lise4.lise.unit.no (Anders Christensen) writes:
>What about 'the real stuff': the original sagas. 
>They are often quite short, have a unique style, they don't lack
>violence and a certain sence of 'humor', and they portray a lot of
>interesting personalities.
>I'd recommend the saga about Eigil Skallagrimson as a start, and maybe
>also Snorre Sturlasons sagas about Norwegian kings. At least the
>latter has been published in English, I think, and is often sold in
>'tourist-traps'. It should not be too difficult to find in a bookstore
>specializing in Nordic books.

	Penguin Books does a line of English translations of a number of
sagas, including the best known of the family sagas.  Iceland Review also
has a series of saga translations in English, but these can be hard to find
- I was only able to find them in Iceland!  Various universities publish
saga translations as well.
	On the whole the Penguin translations are easiest to find for an
English speaker, and are fairly good.

Regards,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Subject: Re: Travel Notes from Denmark and Sweden
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim, Norway
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:49:13

>>>>> kimmel@cortex.sai.vtt.fi     (Jyrki Kimmel) writes:

> 2. Corollary: A danish 'mil' is something different than a mile, let alone
>    the Swedish 'mil' (10 km). Specifically, the distance to the
>    nearest supermarket cannot be 200 km.

But the Norwegian 'mil' is the same as the Swedish 'mil' (10km).

Just for the record.

- Steinar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: davpa@ida.liu.se (David Partain)
Subject: Re: Cheap hotels in Sweden
Originator: davpa@obel2
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Linkoping
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 12:28:56 GMT


In article <3739@svin02.info.win.tue.nl>, yvesv@wsooti09.info.win.tue.nl (Yves v.d. Vijver) writes:

> I am going to travel through Sweden this summer and would like to have some addresses of cheap hotels in any of the following Swedish cities:
> Stockholm
> Karlstadt
> Malmo
> Helsingborg
> Borlange
> 
(i'm responding on the net because i think this might be of general interest)

i can't speak to specific hotels, but i can speak to the cost.  swedish
hotels are generally quite expensive, but your definition of cheap might
be different than mine :-)  i'll let the locals tell you what you might 
find.  i, however, would recommend that you consider staying at Vandrarhem,
which are the Swedish Tourist Board's contribution to the International
Youth Hostel Federation.  this is somewhat misleading, however.  i've stayed
in a LOT of youth hostels all over europe, and Vandrarhem are usually
much much nicer.  you often have a private room, the kitchen facilities
are good, and the prices reasonable (when compared to hotels).  as a
non-member, you'll pay between 70 and 80 kronor per night.  it's cheaper
if you're a member of your home country's youth hostel federation.  
although i can't speak to the particular cities you mention (Karlstad is
a lovely city, by the way), i'm sure some of the fellow netters can.  i've
never been disappointed by a Vandrahem and would recommend it to anyone
traveling in sweden.
-- 
David Partain                   |  dlp@ida.liu.se
IDA, University of Link\"oping  |  work phone:  +46 (013) 28 26 08
S-581 83 Link\"oping, Sweden    |  telefax:     +46 (013) 28 26 66
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Subject: EC (Was: Laughing at americans)
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 07:20:47 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.151547.11679@kth.se>, tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson) writes:
|> 
|> EC will probably become more and more synonymous with Europe. If Norway, 
|> Sweden, Finland, Austria and Switzerland joins EC, then all European 
|> countries except Iceland west of the former iron curtain will be members 
|> (as well as ex-DDR). The next step will then possibly be to bring 
|> Hungary, Poland and the Czech??? republic in, in ten years or so, 
|> perhaps together with an occasional part of ex-Yugoslavia (at least
|> Slovenia), provided that some semblance of order and democracy is 
|> established there.
|> 
|> I don't know if EC every will be totally synonymous with the 
|> geographical Europe, possibly not. But I think it's a grand vision. You 
|> probably don't
|> 
|> Tomas
--


Tomas, and all of you pro-EEC's in Sweden and Norway :

It's no good idea to say that "If Norway, Sweden, ..... join EC, ...."
as an argument for actually joining EEC.

Norway will not join EEC, and if you use norwegian EEC-membership as a
major argument for Sweden to join EEC, you might get into a problem
in just a short time.

Besides, it looks like Denmark's membership may be questionable, too.
This may increase your problems. You may have to switch from saying
"Sweden must join EC because Norway and Denmark ...." to "Sweden must
join EC in spite of Norway and Denmark ....".

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Termodynamics |
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: aronsson@lysator.liu.se (Lars Aronsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Ro"da Orm
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:55:45 GMT
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Club, Linkoping University, Sweden

rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu (raymond thomas pierrehumbert) writes:
>Did I say Ro"da Orm was somewhat turgid?  A mistaken first impression;
>the author really has quite a sense of humor.  Also, I remarked
>that the vocabulary seemed difficult, but in fact the difficulty

For those USENET readers who don't find time to learn Swedish but
still want to enjoy this book, the title of the English translation is
"The Long Ships". I have seen it in a paperback edition (and there has
got to be a hardcover edition too) but I cannot remember the name of
the publisher. The author is Frans G Bengtsson. The Swedish original
was written in the 1940s.
--
Lars Aronsson, Lysator, Linkoping University, Linkoping, Sweden
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Norwegians in Formula 1 ?
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:45:56 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.123049.4561@nntp.hut.fi> s37755c@taltta.hut.fi 
(Jochen Grandell) writes:

   >Who is this Ronnie Peterson ?? ;-)

  He is no more! He died in a crash. Actually he died by some insidious injury
he received in a crash, since he was photographed apparently not too badly
hurt in his hospital bed. Bonnier was killed in a crash, too. And then there
was that Swedish F1 driver who died of cancer. This idiot sport is not for
Swedes, it seems.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson)
Subject: Re: Finnish question
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:38:08 GMT

In article <TT.92Jul29172338@tarzan.jyu.fi>, tt@tarzan.jyu.fi (Tapani Tarvainen) writes:
> Also, Estonian uses them: although there also sh and zh can be
> substituted, it's still (or was recently ... ) officially disapproved.
> And they're not present in ISO 8859/1 :-(.  (They are in 8859/2 if I
> remember correctly, but that one doesn't have another character
> Estonian needs much more, namely o with ~ on top.  As far as I can
> tell, no ISO Latin variant allows writing Estonian properly.
> Well, we can hope they'll get used to sh and zh ...
> until everybody supports ISO 10646 in full :-)).

Latin Alphabet Nr. 4 (which I assume makes up ISO 8859-4) is said
to be intended "for general purpose applications in typical office
environments" in the Danish, English, Estonian, Finnish, German,
Greenlandic, Lappish, Latvian, Lithuanian, and Norwegian languages.
I wasn't aware Estonian required S or Z with hacek (or caron), but
this character set contains them too (yes, these letters are in ISO
8859-2 as well, but for the benefit of various slavonic languages).

Now, if your output device happens to support ISO 2022 escape
sequences, then all you need is ESC - D to pick ISO 8859-4 for
your G1 character set, and you'll be able to recognize "Vru" as
the name of an Estonian town...  Piece of cake!  :-)
--
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Paper Mail: Box 520, S-751 20 UPPSALA, Sweden
Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Subject: Re: American wants to know Nordic impressio
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim, Norway
Date: 21 Jul 92 08:54:57

>>>>> bzfstoer@ZIB-Berlin.DE (Mechthild Stoer) writes:

> Can anybody tell me why the Germans are not liked as tourists in Sweden?
> Is it only in Sweden?
> I never noticed anything in the way of hatred or unfriendliness in Norway.

And you have *invaded* us,... ;-)
Maybe we're just nice? ;-)

Seriously though, how you are recieved depends very much on how you
behave. Be polite, and people tend to be polite. This is a rule that
has held for me at home and abroad.

Go barging around as if you own the place, and people are bound to
feel resentment. Don't yell at us because we don't speak German. Try
communicating in English instead.

And whatever you do: Don't mention the war...;-)

- Steinar

"I almost mentioned the war once or twice there, but I managed to avoid it"
                                                               - Basil Fawlty
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: aforsten@aton.abo.fi (Annika Forsten INF)
Subject: Re: blowing up statues -> fires in Sweden
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1992 15:23:35 GMT

In article <63257@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt5869b@prism.gatech.EDU ( Lars Nordin) writes:

>   Talking about fires, I heard that in Ska*ne, Sma*land and Gotland have some
>    *huge* forest fires. They even say you can smell the smoke from Gotland in 
>    Helsingborg. (tid att ro"ka a*l) :^)  

We could smell the smoke here in southern Finland as well. Lots of people
phoned the alarmcentrals and blocked the lines because of this. We could
smell the smoke from Latvia even better.

annika forsten, finland
aforsten@aton.abo.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: taipale@kiloapo.tele.nokia.fi (Pekka J Taipale)
Subject: Re: Finnish question
Organization: none
	<1992Jul31.065735.8352@dde.dk>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 11:02:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.065735.8352@dde.dk> ct@dde.dk (Claus Tondering) writes:
>So are you saying that the S and Z with a hacek accent ARE required
>by the Saami language? Does that include the Saamis who live in Norway
>and Sweden, so that these two letters are also relevant in a Norwegian
>and Swedish character set?

No. I think that in Norway and Sweden the same things are
transliterated with sh and ch or something. Oddly enough, written Saami
seems to be slightly different in various Fennoscandic countries.

>By the way, what is the relationship between Finnish and Saami? Are they
>close?

No. There is no hope of mutual understanding between Finnish- and
Saami-speaking persons.  Linguistics have been able to track some
words and structures with common origin, but that's about all, as far
as I know.

--
Pekka.Taipale@hut.fi
taipale@kiloapo.tele.nokia.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson)
Subject: Re: AA and town names
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 05:40:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.100202.21279@kth.se>, petrus@stacken.kth.se (Lars Petrus) writes:
>    This suffix is never pronounced by the locals. Those towns are called
> Ume, Skellefte, Pite, Lule and R}ne (don't know about Torne}).

Torne} is probably pronounced Tornio by the locals, as that's how
it's spelt in Finnish (which is spoken there, and is known for its
regular spelling, though the Ostrobothnian dialects may introduce
irregularities of which I'm unaware).  The Torne River forms the
southern part of the Swedish-Finnish border.  I don't know whether
the name is originally Swedish or Finnish.
--
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Paper Mail: Box 520, S-751 20 UPPSALA, Sweden
Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic