HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: markets
Keywords: euro, market
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:08:23 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep8.141857.20839@mlb.semi.harris.com>, cgehman@huey.mis.semi.harris.com (Corey Gehman) writes:
|> The market has also been used in attacks, which I don't think should be
|> possible.  The strategy is to take someone else's warehouse/bank and put
|> everything up for sale.  The other country takes the sectors back, but
|> can't get his stuff back.  I don't like this, because it makes no sense.
|> Where are the goods?  If they aren't in the warehouse/bank where are they?
|> How did they get moved?  Who moved them?  Hey, that brings up an idea.  Why
|> not make putting things up for sale cost mobility?  That would solve this
|> complaint and also make some sense.
|> 
|> 
|> I think the market was useful, but extremely dangerous as it is in Euro III.
|> 
|> 
|> ---
|> | Corey Gehman                       |
|> | cgehman@harris.mlb.semi.harris.com | The Amiga is dead.  Long live Sun.
|> | cgehman@huey.mis.semi.harris.com   |

I don't think abuse of the market in the classical sense (friendly countries
swapping and moving wares to save time/mobility/whatever) is that much of a
problem (other than being unrealistic -- as if the rest of empire is  that
realistic).  The real complaint is the warehouse/bank sacking being used as
a standard attack strategy where there is much more to gain/lose.  If your
neighbors are using the standard market to 'bounce' goods around their
countries, it's not going to make them soar to the top of the power chart,
but if they have a huge airforce and military and bar supply and they're
flirting around with low cash-on-hand and you sack all their banks before the
update (partly because they're stupid enough to let you, but even good players
screw up or live too close to the edge sometimes), they're dog meat:  theyy
go broke after the update and have no money to demobilize mil, etc, etc --
all because their bars mysteriously vanished into thin air (not only do they
lose the bars, but their enemy gets them! -- double whammy.

Perhaps you shouldn't be able to sell from occupied sectors at all -- even if
you do have military control.  I'd be willing to let all the little weenies
sell stuff back and forth to their hearts' content as long as the important
problem was solved.  Of course, you'd still have the problem with peopl
selling all their belongings while you're killing them (which leads us back
to the option of no market at all -- which, IMHO, is ultimately the best
option).  Does anyone really care that much if people use/abuse the market
for 'bouncing' stuff?  Just wondering...

-Andy


-----
T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
-----
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: madpit@athena.mit.edu (Douglas R. Pitters)
Subject: Re: Cracker-Jack Empire, and other assorted topics...
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:05:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.071018.16146@daimi.aau.dk>, ctjmrr@daimi.aau.dk (Claus Torp Jensen) writes:
|> kb@thedog.cis.ufl.edu (Ken Bukauski) writes:
|> 
|> >If anyone takes this personally
|> 
|> Yes, unfortunately I DO take it personal, when someone I have never played
|> with starts judging my playing skill.......
|> 
|> I simply don't believe this guy. He keeps degrading players he doesn't even
|> know. I resent being called a third world nation.......

	It's unfortunate that you take all this personally.  I know I have
called some people that I don't even know much worse than "third world nation"

|> Seriously, I have proved MY point now. I am present now, I'm ready to play,
|> but You don't have the time for it. Thats OK, I understand....:)
|> Maybe I had other business at the times when You were playing.....
	[stuff deleted]
|> Oh, I'm surprised......
|> So what does it take to make a name for oneself? Does one HAVE to play
|> against Redline. That might be somewhat difficult if you are more or less
|> retired at present (but seriously I was thinking of retiring myself.....
|> your original post just made me rethink......I found it just a tiny
|> bit arrogant).

	And so because he is arrogant, he should be sent to his room with
no supper?  I don't think Redline has ever posted to r.g.e that he is a
man of humility.
|> 
|> 
|> Claus/The (still proud) King of Graahoeje

	your version of arrogance is a more righteous type, but nevertheless
still arrogance.  You should practice that standard preaching and realize
that this is a game, and that if Red make general statements about third
world nations, that his comments are his, and do not represent empire, or
the empire community at large.  From what I've seen of you, I agree you are
a very fine empire player, and you know you are, and that is why I appreciate
your level of arrogance. 


A lot of "name" player, of which Claus is one of them, whether he cares to
admit it or not, really are not understood by some people, because that level
of arrogance comes from the same feeling of accomplishment that make so many
people hate to see their country nuked.  To spend 3-4 months building a country,
defeating other *humans* in the process is much bigger an accomplishment in
my opinion, than being one member on an 11 member team on a field of play for
2 hrs, against 1 opponent.  The same arguements that can be used for the
difficulty of ranking players can be used to the thinking behind your
average expert empire player.  Let's face it, we don't want to sit here
in front of a computer and hear people saying that all those hours you spent
learning the nuances of the game mean nothing because you're from Europe, or
you're perpetual FODDER, etc.  And for a lot of expert players, that all they
can say about someone else. And for the players that don't have other players
singing their praises, the only person that's gonna do it is themselves.  

I say that's fine if I enjoy reading it....
From: fswww@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Open spots for a new player?
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:48:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: acad3.1992Sep13.154854.1
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <1992Sep11.221032.7868@Princeton.EDU>, verprsks@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Andrew J. Verprauskus) writes:
> I've never played before.  Are there any openings in a game suitable for
> someone of my ability? 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your reply,
> 	Andy
> 

Me too!
 
Bill Winters
FSWWW@acad3.alaska.edu
From: fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:51:09 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <1992Sep9.124227.17609@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, laitinen@cae.wisc.edu (Tero Mikko Laitinen) writes:
> In article <36989@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> kb@thedog.cis.ufl.edu (Ken Bukauski) writes:
>>
>>If someone
>>puts up a game that caters to US players and is *worth* winning then call
>>us....(these games that wimp-out in some way to help the non-US players
>>are a waste of time.  Besides, have any non-US players even proven themselves
>>to be among the best of the community?  I'd like to hear some discussions on
>>this topic).
>>
> 
> Are you saying that if the best two players happen to be yanks, all the games
> should be played with their rules and according to their schedule!?  Besides,
> I don't quite see, how these 'wimp' games help the non-US players.  I thought
> that rotating updates are the same to everyone: as many at the daytime as at 
> the night time.  Of course, if your idea of fair match is killing out all
> european players because they can't catch any updates but you can, that
> sounds slightly odd.  But who am I, an arrogant european bastard, to critizise
> allmighty Redline.
> 

        Odd, I could have sworn that several of the "Best Players" were non-US.
Or don't we count the games played last year and the years before?  Why is it
.. all of the so called "Best Players" play in Power Blocks?  ie.  They, and
their 10 companion countries win games...  What happened to the 

                    I Win this Game 

.. approach?  I find it hard to allow any of the current power block players
the ranking of a good player.  It is well known that if enough people attack
a single lone country, the country loses.

        Anyone notice the result of these "Bad time Updates" in Euro III?

        Looks to me as only those who could make every update are still
playing.

/* Lotz of disorganized thoughts  |   Shoot me Later */
/* runion@dec1.uafcs.alaska.edu                      */
/* fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu                            */
From: rob@theo.ucsb.edu (Robert Buckles)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 13 Sep 92 06:46:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara

In article <1992Sep11.155243.2537@schaefer.math.wisc.edu> duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge) writes:
>ARGH!!!  I'm going insane.
>Give it a rest.  Most of us (who know the people you are flaming) are
>just laughing at your stupidity.
>
>Please, please, give it a rest, or confine it to email.
>
>Jason -- Temekula

I seriously endorse this reply.  Let's stop the flaming for a while.
From: me12@prism.gatech.EDU (Reza Ebrahimpour 32199)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Who Rules the World? ( OUR WIVES???!!!)
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:36:00 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Hi Everyone,

I was reading Claus/Graahoeje's posting regarding his time limits, etc.
and it occured to me that this game is representing the real world
in ways not intended.

Specifically, I consider Claus and Jason Duelge, two of the best players
I have known. They are consistent players, very smart, and trustworthy.

Now they are both resigning ( more or less) from the game, because 
their wives are not happy with the time they spend on the game.

I was not a good player. I played Karadj in a few games some long time ago.
And when I was going to be a better player, suddenly I was stopped by my 
wife. At the time it was pretty depressing not to be able to continue
the battle, but now it seems clear to me that she was right. 
I was simply spending too much time on a GAME.

This may be similar to what goes on in many countries. The politicians
( specially dictators) enjoy having their soldiers killed.
It is simply a game. ON the other hand, once involved in a real battle,
there is little time left for the real life ( personal and professional).

I suggest we add a new rule to the game. We need to require every player 
to present a certificate of bachelorhood (copies of rental agreements,
bank accounts, credit cards, divorce papers, etc.) before signing up
for a game. This way we can guarantee two things:
1) The married players will continue will continue their happy lives
, but not the game
2) and the players who have not married yet, will never do.


On a more serious subject, all these claims of being the best seems 
quite foolish. There are some excellent players in the game, and given
the multi-player nature of the game, it is impossible to rank them 
with a good precision. Perhaps we need two-player games, and a league 
such as the one for baseball ( playing 160 or so games in a year doesn't
sound like fun).


Regards,
Reza Ebrahimpour

-- 
EBRAHIMPOUR,MOHAMMAD REZA
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt2199a
Internet: gt2199a@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: madpit@athena.mit.edu (Douglas R. Pitters)
Subject: Re: Help mapping sea squares?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:46:32 GMT

In article <5668@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu>, rob@theo.ucsb.edu (Robert Buckles) writes:

|> 	Nice .sig, but you really should not ask these simple questions over thenet.
|> 	For one, these basic things an empire player should learn in the first
|> few days on his own.  If you have questions, try to figure them out on your own
|> first.  RTFM.  Look up info.  If all fails, ask someone in your game.  DON'T
|> make an announcement, but pick someone (probably the guy in first place since
|> he has lot's of time... :) )  nd send a telegram.  That way, only he knows you
|> are fodder and won't bother with you, except to answer your questions.
|> If you want an immediate answer, clear your news and do news again in a minute
|> or so and see who's on...
|> 
|> 	I only include this in the newsgroup instead of email because I see a
|> lot of beginners making annos of ridiculous things they want to know.
|> 
|> Rob
|> Shockwave
|>  


	Actually, I think the purpose of rec.games.empire was to answer
all questions concerning empire or empire-like games.  Depending on your
manual, you won't get instructions on how to map sea sectors, and sometimes
bmap doesn't map sea sectors, if the patch is buggy, for instance.

Asking such a question in a game may be detrimental to his existence.
Although his existence may be hurt from the start..

Besides, there was a time where you couldn't map sea sectors at all, so
his not knowing how to map sea sectors shouldn't really effect the way
he runs his country domestically, which is considerably more important for
a beginner, eh


			The Saint
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: ranald@athena.mit.edu (Gregory L Yantz)
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 06:14:53 GMT

In article <68053@hydra.gatech.EDU>, dsm@prism.gatech.EDU (Danny McGurl) writes:
|> In article <BuFs3J.6M8@nic.umass.edu> elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:
|> 
|> >tied for first:
|> >   Afrika Korps >   Atlantis >   Barbary Coast >   Dorsai >   EVIL_EMPIRE >   Fodderland >   Graahoeje >   Guzzer >   Himmel >   Lersing >   Mirkwood >   Redline >   Resvon >   Revelstone >   Vulgaria
|> 
|> This list leaves out Pern, JustUs and Dreamlands...
|> 
|> >perpetual fodders: >   Soxland >   Orleanais >   Baldric >   Stuart_Hall
|> 
|> This leaves outs the greatest Fodder of all:
|> 
|> U.S. of Madison.
|> 
|> I've dated myself now.. The washington 1989 game... What a game that was...
|> Atlantis and the great gold scam.  The Gnur/Revelstone war.  The 
|> kaerconan suicide pilots.  The Zenith/Kaerconan/Gnur alliance and the
|> Ultima/Fodderland and someone else alliance against them... Later we
|> watched the world turn to glass as AK and Dorsai nuked it out.

Hey! Someone else?!? That was me, that "total slime" playing his first
game under the name Moria. I paid for the nuking that helped make Zenith
famous. -heh- 

|> Remember to guard your sheep!!!!!! :)
|> 
|> When I was making top ten lists, I listed about 15 players.  
|> My idea of a top player is someone that can win/finish games in a very
|> good position pretty consistantly.
|> -- 
|> Danny McGurl                        "No, no Pixel!  Beer is not for baby cats."
|> Office of Information Technology        --Richard Ames,
|> dsm@prism.gatech.edu 		        __The Cat Who Walks Through Walls__

Still in retirement, 
Greg Yantz aka DAK/Ministry
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: fsjfz@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:52:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.202943.12265@athena.mit.edu>, tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes) writes:
> I think his point was that nearly all of the top players are from the US.  What
> percentage of the top 10 would you say is from the US?  I'd say at least 80%.
> We have to be quite general here when we talk about the 'top-10.'  The last
> thing r.g.e needs is a "who exactly is in the top ten" thread.
> ...
> Perhaps someone should hold a tag-team match or something (USA vs. the rest
> of the world) with, say, 3-5 players per side.  I think I like this thread...
> I see 'Dream Team' off on the horizon....
> -----
> T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
> (a.k.a. Ultima)
> -----

Gee, last year i was ecstatic when i managed to finish a couple national games
in the top ten.  Of course, in the NEXT game i played...  :(
 
How bout instead of arguing about who's better than who, someone puts up an
annual invitational tourney.  All of the declared winners (or second place if
someone wins more than one) of the big national games, invited to play in a
tourney.  Identical start islands (or lack of islands) to make it fair, etc.
 
Then instead of watching people bicker in the newsgroup about who's better than
who, we can watch regular updates on the game about who's actually
demonstrating the ability they say they have.  Since i consider the ability to
meet demanding update times an integral part of empire playing skill (the
ability to place the rest of your life on hold!), put the game on Alaska time
and make it inconvenient for EVERYONE.
 
We could even come up with good obligations for the annual Empire champ-
holding seminars on proper blitz technique, travelling about the world on
speaking engagements for new (and old) players, and generally advancing Empire
to the rest of the world as a good use for your time.
 
James Zuelow
FSJFZ@acad3.alaska.edu
From: fly@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul D. Fly)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Update Stuff & Land Units
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:01:07 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Sep4.000950.3168@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak) writes:
>	If you notice in my post, I mentioned units retreating. After a combat,
>only the winner will have units in the sector, as the combat won't end until all
>defending mil and units are dead or have retreated...

Anyone thought of the idea of morale (based on happiness?) and having units
fight until they "break", then they retreat a sector at random (rout), and, if
no friendly sector is available, they are captured, ala Empires in Arms.

Paul

-- 
Paul Fly                      | "Thinking is more interesting than knowing,
fly@acsu.buffalo.edu          |  but less interesting than looking."
v092pxca@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu |    --Goethe
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: melissa@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Melissa C Merrill)
Subject: Re: Country in Chainsaw avail.(FILLED!)
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:38:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.023520.13535@uwm.edu> melissa@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Melissa C Merrill) writes:
>
>The Chainsaw game has just started, and alas I am not going to be able to play.
>I did explore the island a bit, and it is HUGE. As I said, we havent even had
>an update yet. If you want this country, please email me asap, as the first
>update is 7am EST tommorrow.
>
>I will give it to the first person to respond. Thanks.
>
>Melissa
>

FILLED. Thanks.

Melissa

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: madpit@athena.mit.edu (Douglas R. Pitters)
Subject: Re: Cracker-Jack Empire, and other assorted topics...
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:08:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.164933.28848@athena.mit.edu>, tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes) writes:
|> If
|> you're too self-conscious about your empire ego, maybe empire isn't the game
|> for you -- empire is much more enjoyable if you can learn how to take
|> criticism and not go nuts every time someone questions your ability.
|> 
|> -----
|> T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
|> -----

	Empire is a whole lot more enjoyable if you are very good at defending
yourself in the written form :-)


			The Saint

			still waiting for Mr. Ed to make the comeback taunt.
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Ancient Empires?
From: <HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET>
Date: Friday, 11 Sep 1992 15:34:35 MDT
Organization: Brigham Young University


I would be interested to know if there are any versions of Empire
being run which use   medieval or ancient economic, political, and
military models, instead of twentieth century.

Has anyone heard of such a variation on the game?
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: pkenny@ADS.COM (Patrick Kenny)
Subject: Re: Help mapping sea squares?
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mtn. View, CA (415) 960-7300
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:32:22 GMT

In article <5668@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu> rob@theo.ucsb.edu (Robert Buckles) writes:
>
>	Nice .sig, but you really should not ask these simple questions over thenet.
>	For one, these basic things an empire player should learn in the first
>few days on his own.  If you have questions, try to figure them out on your own
>Rob
>Shockwave
> 

I am sorry but I don't agree with your statement, ANYBODY has the right to
ask questions over the net, no matter what they are. That is how one learns.
And how someone else picks up some knowledge about the game. I would love
to hear questions people have about the game. If you cannot inform the 
next generation, then you won't have one.

I agree you should try to figure out stuff on your own, but when you get stuck 
ask.

-pk

--
! -Patrick Kenny (pkenny@ads.com)    (Advanced Decision Systems)      !
! There is nothing more incredible then reading with your eyes closed !
From: fein@acsu.buffalo.edu (L. Fein)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Top Players
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:09:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: LandOfFaa

In article <1992Sep11.072930.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.173913.14805@mixcom.com>, Thomas.Retkowski@mixcom.mixcom.com (Thomas.Retkowski) writes:
>> There are always good players...luck of the draw as far as territory always
>> helps, but here are some names for thought.
>> 
>> Afrika Korps
>> Vulgaria
>> Narnia
>> Council
>> 
>> Any others?  
>> 
>
>        Yeh.   
>Revelstone
>Guzzer
>Voor
>Farside
>The_Scum
>beep
>
>.. just to name a few ..
>
>/*  runion@dec1.uafcs.alaska.edu  ||  fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu  */



So, you're forgetting three of the best...

Dorsai (How did HE skip your mind?)
Evil_Empire (See above)
Mithrilien (see above above)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: kpearce@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (BULLDAWG)
Subject: Rating systems.  AAAGGGHHHH!!!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:17:27 GMT

Ratings suck.

1)  Ratings are only valid if all factors are identical:  same world, same
islands, same everything _every_ time and this ain't gonna happen.  Otherwise,
you are comparing "apples and oranges."

2)  This thread appeared a few months ago and nothing came of it.  Because it
is impossible.  This is _not_ chess or _tennis_ where one can count on the table
being the same or the out line being the same.  This is a make-it-up-as-you-
go-along game.  God knows how many varients of code / world size / etus /
updates there have been (or are possible).  As many games as there have been 
played, that's the answer.

BTW, my penis is bigger than yours, so I don't need a rating system   }:)

Ken
LSF