HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Malik Shabazz, Islam and Anti-Semitism...
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:25:53 GMT

lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney) writes:

##More Jews were expelled from Arab lands than Palestinians from Israel.

#Irrelevant.  This was a reaction to the creation of a self-declared
#Jewish state on land occupied by a signficant perccentage of non-Jews.

Why is the expulsion of 800,000 Jews from Arab countries "irrelevant"?
Because they were absorbed by Israel and not intentionaly left
in refugee camps? Why didn't the rich Arab countries help these
people instead of buying property all over the world and spending
billions of dollars on extravagant life style?

#Again a meaningless statistic.  There are Arabs in the Israeli
#parliament, but they are systematically exluded from any position
#of authority.

Like the two deputy ministers in the current government?

#Moreover, Israel has no civil rights legislation, and no bill of
#rights.  

True, unfortunately. However, such a bill is in preparation. The
declaration of independance does include something like a bill
of rights, but I agree it is not a good enough substitute.

#Arabs are routinely discriminated against in government
#policies (primarily in that they are excluded from the Army, and most
#government benefits flow from military service), 

The matter of the army service is a delicate one, in which Israel's
position is unique. It would be better if everybody served in the
army, but you have to agree that in the current situation it would
be a problem. Furthermore, do you think it is really such a great
bonus to be in the army? You spend 3 years in regular service and
another accumulating 3 years in the reserve!! That means that
between the ages of 18 and 55 you spend 6 (!!) years in the army.
Can you imagine what damage that does to one's professional
career and/or studies and/or family life and/or economic situation?
Also, there are not that much "government benefits" that are
conditioned on military service (which excatly did you mean?),
and they are justified in view of the above.

(BTW, for women the duration of service is 2 years and they serve
 in the reserve only till age 24).

I am not saying Israel is perfect - no question it could be better.
And, yes, it has yet to improve in certain aspects. But one has
to bring all factors into consideration. It is a young country,
born in chaos and living in chaos since then, surrounded by
many larger countries which were/are extremely hostile towards
it. Hopefully things will change for the better, all over the
mideast.


-Danny Keren.

PS - I have set the followup to talk.politics.mideast.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 09:42:18 EST
From: <FKR@psuvm.psu.edu>   Fred Rozenblad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Reviews on _Malcolm X_
 <92324.152711FKR@psuvm.psu.edu>


Well. I got my chance to see Malcolm X last night. It was about 3.5 hrs long
but the movie was worth every bit ofthe publicity (on the positive side) that
it gets.

I would like to get the movie if it is ever released on video, along w/ Roots.
They both do very good in explaining the history we face in the US.

                      *
Fred Rozenblad        *  Why would anybody want to get a PhD in Chemistry?
FKR@psuvm.psu.edu     *
                      *
From: bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Could this possible be true?!
Date: 21 Nov 92 15:12:24 GMT
Reply-To: bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU
Distribution: usa
Organization: Fluent Inc., Lebanon NH

mmoore@staff.tc.umn.edu ("None of ya Bizness") writes:

>In article <jac1.722153269@Isis.MsState.Edu> jac1@ra.msstate.edu (Jennifer Cox) writes:
>$das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>$
>$>This definitely is one of the most bizarre rumors I've heard recently:
>$
>$>A friend this weekend told me that an acquaintance of his from Missisippi
>$>told him that there is a movement in the South by the KKK and others of their
>$>ilk to reinstitute slavery!  Anyone heard of this?
>$
>$I don't know about that.  The newspapers down here haven't mentioned
>$it.  I wouldn't doubt it though.  David Duke is out of work and
>$needs some more money and hate mail.
>
>That's the point.  If somethin like this was jumpin off, you certainly
>wouldn't read of it in the paper.  What would the headline be? "KKK:
>We finah jack all niggas livin down here"  Yeah right.  People that
>have 3/4 of an ounce of sense would be either in a major exodus or a
>major revolution.

Nice rhetoric, but do you really believe it?

I recall that when the KKK even plans a march in a major city
it's national news, on all the networks, and is talked about
for weeks.

And you suggest that if the KKK was openly calling for a return to 
slavery the press would cover it up?

Right.
-- 
   Brice Dowaliby, Fluent Inc., 10 Cavendish Court, Lebanon, NH  03766
                         bd%fluent@dartmouth.edu        
             I don't speak for them, they don't speak for me
                              DoD # 0698
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:11341 talk.politics.misc:61008
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: Light-skinned, Dark-skinned, the conflict continues...
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:29:51 GMT

In article <vamcnair.921119092211@lab5.eng.auburn.edu>  
vamcnair@eng.auburn.edu (Valerie A. McNair) writes:
} I am sick of this skin thing! I am light but I be damned to 
} think that that is right!  I know plenty of guys who will date 
} someone just because they are light and can be "toe down 
} ugly".  What's up with that? 

Actually, I used to think that my light skin would eventually  
become white.  I hated it.  It made me feel as if I wasn't Black  
like the other kids at a time when all I wanted to do was fit in  
somewhere.  I looked really funny ANYWAY *grin* ...

Donald - It's time for some action!
From: fsars@acad2.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: D.C. Statehood
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:20:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: acad2.1992Nov23.112005.1
Followup-To: soc.culture.african.american
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Alaska

In article <37707@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>, djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns) writes:
> In article <lgr1dtINNnde@news.bbn.com> rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
> 
> # Most of your complaints, which are very valid, would be addressed
> # just as effectively if DC was made part of another state, rather
> # than made a state itself.
> 
> Not quite.
> 
> DC is the only political entity in the US where blacks have a chance
> of being a majority *at the state level*.  This would give blacks far
> more autonomy than they have in black-majority cities, since the state
> government controls so much of the internal functioning of smaller
> jurisdictions.  Just think about education.
> 

If we make Detroit a state, then blacks get the same thing.  
Regardless of what ethnic group (I think that's the idea of calling 
blacks African-Americans, they're an ethnic group now -- all cynicism 
aside, that actually has some validity) gets to control, I think it's 
a bad idea to start giving cities statehood.  That includes D.C.

When I brought up gerrymandering and its application on the
redistricting of the U.S. House of Represenatives after the last
census, and I mentioned that it benefited blacks and other minorities
someone on the net castigated me, perhaps for not emphasizing more that
it benefited other minorities.  Well then, let's make Albuquerque or 
Santa-Fe a state so that Hispanics (presently they don't like being
called Mexican-Americans) can have their own state also.  And if we 
redraw San Francisco, we can give Asian-Americans their own state, 
and............
=== Al Sparks
From: helfman@aero.org (Robert S. Helfman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: More gun control.
Date: 16 Nov 1992 06:03:10 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org

In article <1992Nov15.034442.22948@oracle.us.oracle.com> you write:
>In article <1d4udqINN9i7@news.aero.org> helfman@aero.org (Robert S. Helfman) writes:
>>What I propose is making possession of ANY handgun at ANY time ANYWHERE
                                             ^^^^^^^  
>>OUTSIDE YOUR OWN HOME a serious felony with serious mandatory time.
>
>
>Robert, please get hold of a copy of the Constitution one of these
>days and read the danged thing.
>
>The Second Amendment specifically mentions the right to bear arms as
>well as the right to keep them.

Yes, I am as familiar as you are with the Constitution and the Bill of
Rights. I've been an ACLU member for at least 20 years. We specialize in
that stuff, as you're probably aware.

But you will notice I said nothing about rifles and shotguns, which, to
my thinking, are much less of a problem. They're not easily concealed.
Going to "founder's intent" (as it's so preciously described by
Rehnquist-style conservatives), the founding fathers clearly never
envisioned the kind, number, and deadliness of modern handguns. They
were barely familiar with dueling pistols. If you're talking about
the 'right to bear arms', as in having a "citizen's militia", being
able to bear rifles and shotguns should be enough to satisfy those
who nurture fantasies of protecting themselves from Big Brother when
the dreaded police state is upon us or defending their family from
alien invaders (now that the Russians are a greatly reduced possibility).

I don't see any difference between keeping handguns OFF the streets and
making it illegal to shout 'fire' in a crowded theatre. They are both
a reasonable limitation that balances the absolute Constitutional
right with a citizen's need to feel safe and secure in his person and
property.
From: cmort@ncoast.org (Chris Morton)
Subject: Re: More gun control.
Followup-To: soc.culture.african.american
Organization: Northcoast Unix
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:40:32 GMT

In article <1e7diuINNelm@news.aero.org>, helfman@aero.org (Robert S.
Helfman) wrote:
> 

 
> But you will notice I said nothing about rifles and shotguns, which, to
> my thinking, are much less of a problem. They're not easily concealed.

What's wrong with a concealed weapon?  In areas which have concealed
weapons
permit systems, there seems not to be a problem at all.  OR do you consider
it a  
better idea for me to walk down the street with my M-1 Garand slung over my
shoulder than to have my Glock concealed?

> Going to "founder's intent" (as it's so preciously described by
> Rehnquist-style conservatives), the founding fathers clearly never
> envisioned the kind, number, and deadliness of modern handguns. They
> were barely familiar with dueling pistols. If you're talking about
> the 'right to bear arms', as in having a "citizen's militia", being
> able to bear rifles and shotguns should be enough to satisfy those
> who nurture fantasies of protecting themselves from Big Brother when
> the dreaded police state is upon us or defending their family from
> alien invaders (now that the Russians are a greatly reduced possibility).

To claim that people in the 18th century were unfamiliar with handguns is
downright silly.  Handguns and sabers were the principal weapons of the
cavalry. Officers frequently carried sabers and pistols.  I suggest that
you do some research and get your facts from reputable sources rather than
thin air.

And by the way, I'm SURE that they didn't envision computerized
type-setting machines.  Because of this, you believe that it's permissible
for the government to censor the editorial page of the "New York Times",
right?
 
> I don't see any difference between keeping handguns OFF the streets and
> making it illegal to shout 'fire' in a crowded theatre. They are both
> a reasonable limitation that balances the absolute Constitutional
> right with a citizen's need to feel safe and secure in his person and
> property.

And Donald Wildmon doesn't see any difference between the crowded theater
and banning "Playboy", "Dungeon and Dragons" and anything else which seeps
into his tiny little mind.  Ignorance of the Constitution is no
justification for allowing it to be used as toilet paper.
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: New Malcolm X biography
Date: 16 Nov 1992 10:12:46 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <o8T9TB4w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>,
sbhimji@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Sam Bhimji) writes:
>
>
>How can we be sure what this author has to say about Malcolm X is true?
>The stories about the homosexual prostitute, Malcolm burning his house,
>etc...sound like lies to me. If you are refering to when his house was
>fire bombed after trying to evict him did not work, I highly doubt
>Malcolm would have bombed his own house and risked his families life...
>
>What is the name of this book, as I am interested in reading what this
>author has to say...
>
.
.
Sam, I'm not sure whether you're new to the group or not, but
there's already been a major flame war between myself and folks over
the issue of Malcolm's sexuality and his obscuring of facts
regarding his family and other activities.
.
I posted a book review from the S.F. Chronicle regarding the book,
"Malcolm, The Man Who Changed Black America," by Bruce Perry, who
has compiled and published other books on Malcolm's speeches and the
like.
.
I disagreed with Perry's claims that Malcolm may have bombed his own
house, among others.  But the sex stuff is documented, so I have
reason to believe.
.
Take care and read.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: bvaughan@sheps.Princeton.EDU (Barbara Vaughan)
Subject: Re: D.C. Statehood
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 07:00:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.040730.8038@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
>ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis) writes:
>
>>... people like pat buchanan [who called d.c. statehood as two "affirmative
>>action seats in the senate"], et. al. are opposed to it.  sounds like 
>>racism ...
>
>An excellent reson to oppose it is that it would mean that people in
>L.A., NY, or anywhere else would have only a fraction of the voting
>power as people in DC.   
>
>Two Senators for that one town would be a real injustice, 
>
So it's not an injustice that Nevada has two senators?  Nevada only has
about half as many people as Washington D.C.

Barbara Vaughan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,misc.legal
From: srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller)
Subject: Re: Supreme Court and Homosexuality
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:13:40 GMT

buckmr@vccsouth14.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:

>srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller) writes:


>>Indeed, here in New York PL 130.38 does make sodomy a crime...

>Huh?? Sorry, honey, but here in NEW YORK STATE for all intents and purposes
>there is NOT any actionable sodomy law.

Are you saying that 130.38 has been ruled unconstitutional?  I'd like to
read the case.
-- 
Stevens R. Miller J.D.
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Afriphobia, Clitoridectomy and AIDS.
Date: 16 Nov 1992 14:19:58 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <9658@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>,
pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
>
>I want to thank Bryant Gumbel for the great service he is doing the A Americans
>with his eries on Southern Africa (NBC mon 16 Nov - Fri 23 Nov '92) at 7 a m
>.This will go a long way to revealing the real conditions about Africa. It is
>good that this at the (10 year old) instigation and anchorship of a black man.
>Bryant is very well come to our part of the world and we will show him all the
>wonderful sight we have such as the Musi O Tunya, the worlds greatest waterfall
>s. We will also show him the bad things which are there.
>
.
.
I think that the timing of this with the X movie is also
interesting.
.
However, don't give too much praise to Bryant. He has problems!  But
it's good he's done this.

(Stuff unfortunately deleted.)
>
>Observe also that ritual like cliderictomy and circumission (which is far far
>more wide spread) are conducted once a year. Among the people who do them, the
>girls or boys of the appropriate age group are gathered in a camp. They are
>instructed in the traditions of their ethnic group, required to undergo various
>rites of passage including circumcission and then discharged as adults.
>Since cliderictomy is so rare, I am more familiar with male circumcission. The
>only girl ( an east African) underwent it alone.
.
.
Mutilation of the human body for any reason, cleanliness or social
acceptance is bad, in my view.
>
>

*******************************************************************
                 GABRIELLE THERESA DANIELS
Snail Mail:   P.O. Box 15, Palo Alto, CA  94302
Ma Bell Mail: (415) 858-3932 (until 2/1/93)
E Mail:       hf.gtd@forsythe.stanford.edu or
              gaby@forsythe.stanford.edu

"Yeah, right, you're not impressing me at all..."--GD
     Malcolm X:  No sell-out, no flim-flam, no skullduggery.
              Starts NOVEMBER 18, 1992
*******************************************************************
From: kls30@cd.amdahl.com (Kent L. Shephard)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Alarming News
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:27:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1egr1hINN5sp@morrow.stanford.edu>,
HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
>In article <92323.2245133ZASIB3@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>,
>Robert Newby <3ZASIB3@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:
>>I do not have first hand information.  I'm getting this third hand
>from
>>someone who knows a faculty member at SUNY-Albany.  Evidently there
>was
>>a young black male found hung in Albany.  At first the death was
>labelled
>>a suicide.  The parents objected because that behavior was
>uncharacteristic
>>of their son.  At present the investigation is continuing. Until now
>>
>>there are no witnesses.
>>    There was a similar case in Columbia Missouri about two years ago.
>No
>>was has been charged in that case.  It is an unsolved case that law
>enforce-
>>ment has labelled a suicide.
>>    Seems like they're doing it in the still of the night.
>.
>.
>They do it in California, too.  Some years back, a young black man
>(who was later found to be gay) was found hung in a tree near a BART
>station in one of the burbs away from Oaktown.  It upset a lotta
>black folks, because apparently he had been hanging there for some
>time and it took a shocked commuter to take a good look to know it
>wasn't a Halloween prank and call the cops.  They called it suicide,
>too. The NAACP and other black folks were not so convinced.  Correct
>me, Northern California netters, if I'm wrong.

Nope, you got it right.  They claimed it was suicide but in the note he
spelled some names wrong.  Maybe he was forced to write the note?
I don't know.    What I do know is that in N. Calif. there are some
white areas 
you just don't go to after dark.  The klan is alive and well in N.
Calif.


-- 
/*  What me, speak for Amdahl?  Get real.  These opinions and statements  */
/*  belong to me and me only.   If something I said offends you, it's     */
/*  either you got a thin skin or that I'm just offensive.  Who cares.    */
/*                                                                        */
/* kls30@cd.amdahl.com  -  Don't send NeXTmail!!                          */
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: wbrown@access.digex.com (William Brown)
Subject: Re: Homosexuality
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:33:57 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.192210.26130@athena.cs.uga.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
>
>I don't know about anyone else, but I've decided to stop responding to
>Mr. Stromer. It's about as useful as talking to a log.  I have a
>feeling that if we all stop responding to him, he might not be such a
>bother.
>-- 
>"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
>			-Joseph Beam_
>Terrance Heath 
>heath@athena.cs.uga.edu

   I agree.  


Peace

Bill
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 18:17:05 EST
From: <FKR@psuvm.psu.edu> Fred Rozenblad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Malcolm X and the NOI


Steve,

I'm not a member of NOI, but that's exactly what happened to Malcolm. All those
things were documented in his autobiography. It appears the members of NOI were
human just like everbody else- they succumbed to envy and jealously, and pos-
sibly plotted to kill Malcolm. But let's not forget any government involvement.
After all, J Edgar Hoover was in charge of the FBI, and he also had agents tell
ing Martin Luther King.


Fred Rozenblad
FKR@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: bc205cs@opie.bgsu.edu
Subject: What's the problem here?
Organization: Bowling Green State University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 20:05:09 GMT

	After the LA riots, minority leaders cried for urban development and 
for the hiring of minority police officers on the LA force.  So city 
representatives hire a black to take over as chief and vow to hire more 
minority cops.  This was seen as a solution to combat police brutality.
	Some time after the LA riots, a black man was killed by cops in the
city of Detroit.  A town whose mayor and police chief is black and whose police
force is 55 percent black.  What's the problem here.

Chris Hill
From: rojohnso@libws3.ic.sunysb.edu (Ronald Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Rock Hudson vs. Pee Wee
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:43:04 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook

Fine, your comment about Rock Hudson having females does take away from
my statement about seeing Paul Reubens with women, but that was not the basis
of my whole argument...All I am saying is, dont come on here so called 'outing'
people when you dont have any proof...Magic Johnson, Pee Wee *anyone* for that
matter could be putting up a front, but none of us have any proof either way
unless we can say that we were personally propositioned by them, which I think
is pretty safe to say is negative. Anything beyond that is pure speculation...
which is unfair. Besides, they are/were great actors/athletes...who cares??!!

                                                                   RJ