HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM ("", Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Americans and movies: something's wrong
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:31:59 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

> Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:39:57 GMT
> From: "(Leonid Feygin)" <leonid@SPSS.COM>
>
> And it was no ordinary audience either: the showing was at the
> Art Institute School Center ("aren't Americans idiots" was my first
> reaction).
>

What was the second, I wonder?
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: education...
Date: 29 Sep 1992 06:20:22 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep29.005812.15928@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>one). I am sure that Russian education is
>no really better than American one, and a lot worse
>with respect to the way American teachers are paid
>and American schools are funded. 

You mean Russian schools are funded better or worse than American?
I think that Russian teachers paid a little better than it's commonly
thought, but still rather little. Still, position in society is
comparable for teacher here and there, maybe there a little higher.
School funding seems to be a lot better here. Maybe computers is not a good
example, but who saw computer in _average_ Russian school? Well,
I have no real experience with American grade and high schools. And not much
with college, so,
correct me if I'm wrong.

Yury
From: frants@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Leonid Frants)
Subject: Re: Amer/Rus movies
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:50:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.211931.8246@leland.Stanford.EDU> arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian) writes:
>In article <BvCppD.9pv@news.cso.uiuc.edu> didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
>>
>>As for good movies, depressive or not, America provide plenty of those.
>>More than SU in any case, where most films suffer from bad acting and bad
>>montage.
>
>
>	Oh no, no, no. Russian/Soviet acting school, in my opinion,
>is one of the best in the world. As for the American actors, yes, some
>of them are good, but the vast majority - standardized dulls, standardized
>mimics, standardized bodies and muscles, standardized images etc.


I disagree, it seems that there are many more good movie actors here,
even though they  have to play in a lot of junkie movies. While not
comparing the best actors here and there, en masse they are much
better here.

>
>	As for the montage, it is very important to distinguish between
>the form and the content in art, between the tools and the objectives.
>

I think you mean editing by montage, right?

>	You mentioned the main point yourself - in the Soviet Union movies
>were closer to ART, in America - closer to ENTERTAINMENT and BUSINESS, this
>just another aspect of the wholesale utilitarianism of the American society.
>

Well, good movies are still produced here - it is just that their ratio to
the mass-production shit is not high. The situation seems to be better
than it was in the early 80's. Also, you should notice, that  US films
have been doing well in Cannes for the last few years. It is not an
absolute measure but it means that there are a lot of non-americans
who like them. No matter what you say, presence of Jim Jarmusch, Woody
Allen, David Lynch, Ken Russel and a number of others will do any
movie industry proud.


>	By the way, is "Roseanne" still number 1 American show? Any comments
>necessary?

I have a comment. What do you think is the most popular TV show in
Russia now? Well, at least a few weeks back it was some mexican soap
opera shown daily I believe. Was it something around  20% of the
country that was glued to the TV tube? Some large number anyway.

Leonid, not a great fan of american-made movies.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: education...
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:04:44 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Sep29.233627.12823@dxcern.cern.ch> GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg) writes:
>In <1992Sep29.121050.15943@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu writes:
>
>> Is my English *so* bad? Worse :) Look at any American school.
>> At least in Camridge, they are splendid. Luxurious. Pleasant
>> to look upon. No classes with 45 kids per one teacher. No teachers
>> with the same salary as the cleaning baboushka. Libraries.
>> TV sets. Computers. Good furniture. 
>> 
>> Misha.
>
>Are you  kidding?  Do you  *really*  think  that   Cambridge/Boston schools
>represent  average  American  schools?  Real America  is  midwest, and real
>American schools  are there. Come  and look at them,  especially in a cheap
>district where low class  lives! The same  graffity and shabby furniture; a
>lot of  drugs and almost  in each  class there  are people  who'd be killed
>before graduating from  the school. And if you  like to speak about schools
>in big cities come and look at NYC  schools. Boston is a town of immigrants
>and it was such a town almost a  century. It is very different from U.S. in
>general!

    Not when it comes to SAT scores, those are average, and the school 
    curriculum is as elsewhere - the lowest common denominator, divided
    by two, to keep the kids and, more importantly, the teachers happy.




-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: Amer/Rus movies
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 14:46:33 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <1992Oct1.180652.1@acad3.alaska.edu> ftsam@acad3.alaska.edu (Sergei Maurits) writes:
>In article <1992Oct01.135454.28157@watson.ibm.com>, bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:> 
>>        Like "Ezhik v tumane" (Hedgehog in the Mist), "Skazka skazok"
>> (Tale of tales ?) or "Obratnaya storona luny" (Backside of the Moon).
>>                                                ^^^^^^^^
>
>As a person who cares a lot about spelling, grammar, and related stuff,
>next time you better use the term "DARKSIDE of the Moon". It goes for
>the mentioned astronomical object in elaborated PhD-style English.
> 
>Primite i proch.,
>                              Sergei
> 
Prinimayu i otrazhayu :-)

When I wrote BACKSIDE, I thought maybe I should use something like Moon's ASS.
But an idea, that somebody would like to use scientific term as translation
for the name of art object never happened to me. Not to mention allusions
to Dark Forces and connotations with medieval witchcraft as well
as with terrible private eye vs. mafia stories that would appear as soon
as you would try to put any content to dry scientific term. I don't think
that joyfull and witty animation by Tatarsky deserves such treatment.

It's enough that English had Magister of Ludi for thirty years.

Btw, is "Darkside of the Moon" really an astronomical object?
Is South hemisphere part of the Earth astronomical object too?

:-)

S kistochkoi,
	-igor
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: U.S. students poor performance in math/science = bull
Date: 26 Sep 1992 22:49:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <1a2fkrINNn8j@agate.berkeley.edu> alpet@ocf.berkeley.edu (Alex Petrushko) writes:

>disproving the hypothesis. The range of the research can be amazing: my 
>classmate did research on some AIDS-correlated factor in DNA or something like
>that together with UC Irvine professor and he went as far as London with his

Sounds good.

>paper, whereas one of my other classmates did the research on the color of the
>bubble gum and got nothing.  There are also Olympiads in America. For example,
>there is a Science Olympiad, offered on Regional, State and National levels and
>the high school team, of which I was the part, took 1st in one of the So. Calif.
So, is it team Olimpiade, or individual? In Russia it was almost purely
individual, at least team part was somewhere on adults level, i.e. participants
did not care about it too much.
>regional olympiads. There are also math olympiads - it is a uniform multiple-
>choice test, with Skanavi (if you know him) type problems. Those who pass, take

I can not know him better! It was beloved book of our high-school math teacher.
BTW it was the only place with so much love to Scanavi, I know of.
I think I new it by heart by the end 10-th grade. I must admit that it is good
skill-training book, but nothing fancy, physics olimpiade in Russia usually
have problems of more interesting type.

Yury
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: ftsam@acad3.alaska.edu (Sergei Maurits)
Subject: Re: Soviet Space Program: Beware of the Ignorants!
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 01:11:24 GMT

In article <BvIByz.6H9@apollo.hp.com>, goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:
> 
>     In this country, one can reportedly buy a fully functional MiG 
>     for under $100,000, and low as $25,000 

This is for MiG-15. Kinda old ...

> 
>     The Yeltsin's goverment just announced a massive privatization
>     campaign: every citizen of Russia is going to get an equal
>     share of the state enterprises in a form of a voucher that
>     worth somewhere between $33 and $40.  Think about that: over
>     the last 75 years the average Russian soul, having worked hard 
>     and consumed little, has accumulated less industrial wealth 
>     than a teenager in this country can make in a day flipping 
>     burgers.  50c ,,, a year?!

How do you know the real market value of the voucher? The distribution
was started just yesterday. If you divided the nominal value (10,000
rubles) of the voucher by current exchange rate, it's oversimplification.
This is the same as if you would try to buy an apartment on, say, Moscow
housing market for the price of its official privatization (5,000-15,000
rubles average). You will be asked at least several hundred times more! 
The real question is, what part of the industry is on sale (I really don't
know - who has any info?). This will create the voucher market value.

S.M.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: pmaggs@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter B. Maggs)
Subject: Re: Cyrillic Terminals
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 00:30:48 GMT

jeffrey@rigel.econ.uga.edu (Jeffrey A. Thompson) writes:

>Does anyone know of a Cyrillic serial terminal that I could buy? I would
>like to hook it up to a UNIX system running on an intel 486 computer. 
>I would appreciate any help you could give me. 
 The easiest way to go is just to find an original IBM PC with a
Hercules card and a serial card--most organizations have a few of
them lying around in a closet.  Just load a Russian screen driver
program before loading your favorite terminal emulation software
and you are in business.
,
Peter Maggs   pmaggs@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
Subject: Re: Americans and movies: something's wrong
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 04:39:55 GMT

root@tbucks.com (Timothy E. Buchanan) writes:

>oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky) writes:
>: American public does not like depressing movies because it was not
>: brought up on them and when it sees one, it tries to shield itself against
>: it - quite a normal psychological reaction. Laugh it off is a good way of
>: closing back doors towards one's consciousness.
>: 
>: Oleg Vishnepolsky
>: 

>Not many downbeat or depressing movies are made these days; see 'The
>Player' for a satiric comment on this. But they still appear, and I was
>certainly brought up on them. 'Easy Rider', 'Joe', 'They Shoot Horses,
>Don't They?' come to mind. Earlier, there's film noir.

>I have encountered the laughter reaction, of course, and I agree with Misha
>that it's annoying. I change seats if I can.

>--
>Timothy.

I am not sure what Oleg means when he says that american public is not
brought up on depressing movies.  Are russians brought up on depressing
movies? Are "17 mgnovenii vesnyi" or "Rozhdyenie revolutseei" depressing
movies that Oleg was brought up on?  Or Oleg was more into "A zori zdes'
tikhie"?  For your information, most germans do not watch nor like either
Wim Wender nor Herzog, just like most russians do not watch nor understand
Tarkovky.  In the same way, most Americans do not watch non-Hollywood-end
movies, but there are number of them that an acquired taste for movies.
As for American movies with depressive content, go to your local library
and one of those movie review books. You will find that there are more of 
them than you will want to see.

---Garik.

ps.  After you finish watching your depressive movie, watch some Woody Allen,
he is more than depressive, he is great.  Woody Allen is my God! (Sorry,
it is late, and I am losing it.)

pss. Something depressive: Apocolypse Now (sp?). Since it just surfaced again.
From: leonid@tuna.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: More education talk...
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:50:32 GMT
	<1992Sep30.202622.23203@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
Organization: University of Chicago CILS

Leonid Frants writes:

>   In article <1992Sep30.183915.37862@watson.ibm.com> oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky) writes:
>   >
>   >Bad spelling is not a sign of a weak brain, it is a sign of lack
>   >of literary education. 
>
>   Not true. I know well-read and intelligent people who are not good
>   in spelling -  my dad is one of them. He always had that problem. It
>   most likely has to do with how good one's visual memory is. 

My own feeling is that it really depends on a language, spoken
by a person. I used to know an Eglish guy, he was a PhD in
English literature ( and he was really bright and fantastically
educated ) and he told me he had problems with spelling
all the time and that the situation is pretty common for a lot
of *really* educated people in his country. Maybe there's 
something to do with national mentality or something like this?

In any case, maybe it's time to stop flaming each other? 
uHTu/\uXEHTb| XPEHOBb|!!! :) 
>   >Oleg

>   Leonid.

One more Leonid
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
Subject: Re: Spelling...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:43:01 GMT

oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky) writes:

>In  <BvGBLJ.A6p@news.cso.uiuc.edu>  didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
>>oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky) writes:
>>
>>>In  <BvFIzI.Cz3@news.cso.uiuc.edu>  didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
>>>>...
>>>>2.  Garik's aim was to bring out a message that in America one could get a
>>>>decent education, no worse than the best that Russia can offer...
>>
>>>So, Garik, how do you explain the 1992 math scores that I posted yesterday ?
>>>Do not be shy - I promise to overlook your spelling.
>>
>>>Oleg V
>>
>>Oleg,
>>
>>   I already explained.  I have posted a letter a friend of mine sent me
>>   that contained his involvement in American math Olympiads.
>>
>>   I never claimed that American education is better, nor do I believe that
>>   Russian is better, nor education system of any other country I know of.
>>   I mostly tried to express my feeling that in America, one can get good
>>   well-rounded education.  However, there are a lot of problems with our
>>   education system.  And, if you follow on some of the discussions that
>>   you can find even in your local newspaper, you will find out what they
>>   are.
>>
>>   Garik.

>Your statement that American education is no worse that the Russian one
>is in contradiction  with those scores, and I am afraid that I can't qualify
>the letter of your friend as an explanation of this contradiction.
>Since you are expressing your feeling, it is silly of me to expect any
>explanations. The statement that one can get a decent education in US is
>true, but what of it ? One can get a decent education while in prison
>or on a deserted island.

>Oleg V

That letter is from a person whose education is one of the best that America
can offer, and (this is my claim) probably as good as the best that Russia
can offer.  Now, you are comparing systems by some math scores.  Is it the
only, and is it the best way to compare?  I don't completely agree that it
is either best or only.  Consider a different matric: quality of education
system is based on how much an average individual can get out of it. Would
you then be able to say that Russian or Chinese systems are better?

----Garik.
From: rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff Bytof)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Funding of the xSU's space program?
Date: 30 Sep 1992 03:40:41 GMT
Organization: sio
NNTP-Posting-Host: lutherlab.ucsd.edu


>>   What are the short and long term prospects for continued funding
>>   of the xSU space program?

>Both the long&short terms prospects were:
>To compete West and the USA in particular. Let the
>people get 10 times worse quality of living, 
>but we have to launch as many satellites as
>the USA does. 

Would it be considered acceptable for scientific
projects in the US to subcontract skilled technicians, engineers and
scientists in the xSU?  In particular I mean purchase of rocket
launch services, construction of spacecraft (communications, 
scientific, interplanetary explorers), and rental of communication and
tracking services?  Would this be considered a positive development
that would help to expand the xSU's economy?

If the xSU were to mass produce computers that could compete with
any others made in the world, would that not be a positive development
for the xSU's economy?

  

Jeff Bytof
rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: Spelling...
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 14:59:36 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <BvFIzI.Cz3@news.cso.uiuc.edu>  didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
>...
>2.  Garik's aim was to bring out a message that in America one could get a
>decent education, no worse than the best that Russia can offer...

So, Garik, how do you explain the 1992 math scores that I posted yesterday ?
Do not be shy - I promise to overlook your spelling.

Oleg V
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: leonid@tuna.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev)
Subject: Re: More education talk...
Organization: University of Chicago CILS
	<60714@mimsy.umd.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:10:25 GMT

Vadim Maslov writes:

>   Vitaly Shmatikov writes:
>   >	I spent almost 3 years (Sept.'89-Apr.'92) at Moscow University,
>   >at its infamous VMiK department (literal translation for the American
>   >readers: Faculty of Computational Mathematics and Cybernetics). The
>   >quality of education was truly depressing. With few exceptions
>   >instructors were almost incompetent.
>
>     Well, I also graduated from VMiK. Indeed, there are some 
>   problems in there but these rude insults impress even me
>   (I never was a big fan of VMiK). Probably they are meant to
>   carry a message about their author.

Vadim!
I understand your patriotic feelings, but note one thing:
This guy came from there just 1/2 year ago and he was only
3rd year student; while you ( as far, as I understand ) 
graduated from there 2-3 years ago. See this gap between
the years of your study? Things have changed a lot since
last 2 or 3 years. My friends write me, that it's really
easy to enter any decent Russian Institute/University -
absolutely no competition! Prestige of the education has 
catastrophically fallen. ( forgive me this Russian 
construction, roughly translated into English :) And it
definetely affected the level of the education! It's
really worse now than it used to be 5 years ago. You
write, that lot of the professors from your Department
were world-known scientists. Are you sure they're still
there? Look carefully, maybe couple of them are sitting
next door from you... This brain-drain is really killing
both our science and education. ( why do I have to tell
you 'bout brain drain? :)
So who knows, maybe this guy was somewhat right in his
rude assessments?

For you, Vitaly:
I beg your real pardon, I've got no desire to offend you,
and maybe it's true, that VMiK is THAT bad, but it seems
to me you just don't have any, say, moral right of writing
this stuff. Why? Because you *didn't graduate* from there.
You wrote, you were studying for 3 years there. OK. Maybe
you were really bright and all. But do you know what is the
first reaction of the people who read it? - `this guy is
just a dropout, he didn't manage to graduate from there and
now he claims that the place stinks'. I really trust you are
not! But if you don't wanna people think so, don't post 
stuff like that. It's only an advice, nothing more.
Sorry again.

Sincerely,
 
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Leonid S Andreev,    Center for Information and Language Studies,  |
|  (312) 702 9096        University of Chicago, Chicago IL, 60637.   |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: CIS on the internet? Why not?
Date: 28 Sep 1992 03:58:08 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1a59vmINN6ut@rodan.UU.NET> avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:
I'm not whining, I'm telling honorable public, that there is alternative to
Relcom. In a sense I'm supporting competition between Relcom and SUEARN. If
in a year they can not find a new sponsor, they will start charging users.
That's fine. Hopefully they will compete with Relcom. Why you are so eager
to stop this information and discredit SUEARN? Supporting competition? Or
do not like competitors?

Yury
From: hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Ukrainian concert
Keywords: ukrainian, concert, Windsor
Date: 3 Oct 1992 02:32:08 GMT

There will be a Ukrainian (actually Ukrainian Canadian) concert
in Windsor, Ontario (just go south from Detroit across the bridge).

Time: 2:30 p.m., Sunday, October 4.
Location: Chrysler Auditorium, Cleary International Center

Performers:

Joy Brittan (a Ukrainian Canadian Las Vegas singer)
Troyanda (two sopranos with piano accompaniment) (from Toronto)
Orest Sushko (a tsymbaly player) from Toronto, accompanied by
Ron Cahute on accordian.
Sonyashnyk Dancers (from Chatham and Windsor, Ontario). This is
a very good Ukrainian dance group of about 40 people, half of whom
have no Ukrainian ancestry. 
    All of these except Sonyashnyk have at least one recording
(i.e. tape). 

                                         Myron Hlynka
From: andym@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: More help with Moscow Connections
Date: 2 Oct 92 08:17:35 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

Hello again SCR!

I posted several weeks ago for our sole Russian student here on our campus. 
 She would like to get in touch via internet with some people in Moscow. I 
originally posted about access to the Library of Foreign Lang. and Lit., 
but now I would like to know about the Institute of Scientific and 
Technical Information (or something close to that).

Any comments or suggestions appreciated!

Thank you,

Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:8089 talk.politics.soviet:8223