From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Biblical justification for eating animals
Date: 13 Oct 92 04:34:33 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

>mary.rita.otto writes:
>>>Acts 11:6 - "I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth,
>>>             wild beasts, reptiles, and birds of the air.  Then I heard
>>>             a voice telling me, 'Get up, Peter.  KILL AND EAT."
>>>             (Emphasis mine.  *Snicker*)

Robert J Unglenieks writes:
>>Acts 11:7 (RSV)   And I heard a voice saying to me, 'Rise, Peter; kill and 
>>eat.' 
>>Acts 11:8 (RSV)   But I said, 'No, Lord; for nothing common or unclean has 
>>ever entered my mouth.' 
>>        (*snicker snicker*)

Mike Linan writes:
>Nothing to really snicker about Rob.  You conveniently left out the next 
>verse.  Since you went to the trouble of digging up these verses, could
>it be that you also went to the trouble of leaving out verse 9 in an effort
>to mislead?
>Acts 11:9 - "But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath 
>	     cleansed, THAT call not thou common."
>Sort of missed that Rob.

Well, no I didn't miss that.  First, note in Acts 11:10, that Peter does
not act on his lord's wish and the "vision" he has had of animals is drawn
back into heaven.  Is the vision from heaven the same as that as on earth?

Acts 11:4 (RSV)   But Peter began and explained to them in order: 
Acts 11:5 (RSV)   "I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a 
vision, something descending, like a great sheet, let down from heaven by four 
corners; and it came down to me. 
Acts 11:6 (RSV)   Looking at it closely I observed animals and beasts of prey 
and reptiles and birds of the air. 
Acts 11:7 (RSV)   And I heard a voice saying to me, 'Rise, Peter; kill and 
eat.' 
Acts 11:8 (RSV)   But I said, 'No, Lord; for nothing common or unclean has 
ever entered my mouth.' 
Acts 11:9 (RSV)   But the voice answered a second time from heaven, 'What God 
has cleansed you must not call common.' 
Acts 11:10 (RSV)   This happened three times, and all was drawn up again into 
heaven. 

The next few verses before and after the ones above are appended below.


>>Leviticus 11:7 (RSV)   And the swine, because it parts the hoof and is 
>>cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. 
>>(Sorry hog farmers)

>No need to be sorry.  Hog farmers and those who do eat pork are doing no 
>wrong as long as they ask God to bless and cleanse the meal they are about
>to eat according to the New Testament.
>God tell Peter to  [the rest of this was lost either on Mike's end or mine]

Let's look at the traditonal cleansing of our food in the New Testament.

Mark 7:17 (RSV)   And when he had entered the house, and left the people, his 
disciples asked him about the parable. 
Mark 7:18 (RSV)   And he said to them, "Then are you also without 
understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside 
cannot defile him, 
Mark 7:19 (RSV)   since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so 
passes on?" 

And it is in Mark 7:19, that many feel Jesus has made all foods clean.
Is it the how the food is eaten or the food itself.  Remember, in Mark 7:2,
it is the disciples hands that are defiled because they are unwashed... not
the food.  Also, because you say I leave things off, the next few verses are
appended below.


>>Leviticus 11:8 (RSV)   Of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses 
>>you shall not touch; they are unclean to you. 

>Leviticus as I mentioned is in the Old Testament.  You need to recognize the
>difference from the New Testament.

And I think you should realize that I am replying to Mary's quoting of Acts.
I use the Old Testament because it lays the foundation for the rest.
So... is the Old Testament somehow not part of the Christian Bible?

>>Leviticus 11:27 (RSV)   And all that go on their paws, among the animals that 
>>go on all fours, are unclean to you; whoever touches their carcass shall be 
>>unclean until the evening, 
>>(what does this say of some of our "game" animals?)

>I'm not sure what you mean or may be implying.

It seems clear to me.... the animals that go on all fours on their paws are
unclean to man.

Rob U

---------------  additional verses --------------------------------------

Mark 7:1 (RSV)   Now when the Pharisees gathered together to him, with some of 
the scribes, who had come from Jerusalem, 
Mark 7:2 (RSV)   they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands defiled, 
that is, unwashed. 
Mark 7:3 (RSV)   (For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, do not eat unless they 
wash their hands, observing the tradition of the elders; 
Mark 7:4 (RSV)   and when they come from the market place, they do not eat 
unless they purify themselves; and there are many other traditions which they 
observe, the washing of cups and pots and vessels of bronze.) 
Mark 7:5 (RSV)   And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, "Why do your 
disciples not live according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with 
hands defiled?" 
Mark 7:6 (RSV)   And he said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you 
hypocrites, as it is written, 'This people honors me with their lips, but 
their heart is far from me; 
Mark 7:7 (RSV)   in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the 
precepts of men.' 
Mark 7:8 (RSV)   You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition 
of men." 
Mark 7:9 (RSV)   And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the 
commandment of God, in order to keep your tradition! 
Mark 7:10 (RSV)   For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and,  
'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die'; 
Mark 7:11 (RSV)   but you say, 'If a man tells his father or his mother, What 
you would have gained from me is Corban' (that is, given to God) -- 
Mark 7:12 (RSV)   then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father 
or mother, 
Mark 7:13 (RSV)   thus making void the word of God through your tradition 
which you hand on. And many such things you do." 
Mark 7:14 (RSV)   And he called the people to him again, and said to them, 
"Hear me, all of you, and understand: 
Mark 7:15 (RSV)   there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can 
defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him." 
Mark 7:16 (RSV)    

Mark 7:20 (RSV)   And he said, "What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. 
Mark 7:21 (RSV)   For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil 
thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, 
Mark 7:22 (RSV)   coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, 
pride, foolishness. 
Mark 7:23 (RSV)   All these evil things come from within, and they defile a 
man." 
Mark 7:24 (RSV)   And from there he arose and went away to the region of Tyre 
and Sidon. And he entered a house, and would not have any one know it; yet he 
could not be hid. 


Acts 11:1 (RSV)   Now the apostles and the brethren who were in Judea heard 
that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. 
Acts 11:2 (RSV)   So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcision party 
criticized him, 
Acts 11:3 (RSV)   saying, "Why did you go to uncircumcised men and eat with 
them?" 

Acts 11:11 (RSV)   At that very moment three men arrived at the house in which 
we were, sent to me from Caesarea. 
Acts 11:12 (RSV)   And the Spirit told me to go with them, making no 
distinction. These six brethren also accompanied me, and we entered the man's 
house. 
Acts 11:13 (RSV)   And he told us how he had seen the angel standing in his 
house and saying, 'Send to Joppa and bring Simon called Peter; 
Acts 11:14 (RSV)   he will declare to you a message by which you will be 
saved, you and all your household.' 

--
-       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
-     " You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they        -
-       could and should do for themselves. "                              -
-                                              - Abraham Lincoln           -
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals