From: anisko@usdtsg.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (anisko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Last time on this one
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:39:29 GMT
Reply-To: anisko@usdtsg.UUCP ()
Organization: NCR Corporation, Dayton

In article <1itbngINN4t4@life.ai.mit.edu> dmb@case.ai.mit.edu (David Baggett) writes:
>In article <1isna6INNonm@golem.wcc.govt.nz> wells_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>>Don't bother, the guy is obviously thick, saying there is no CLI for
>>the ST, (ever heard of UNIX!?  And the hundreds of other PD/shareware ones)
>
>Look Steve, get a grip.  You know I know what I'm talking about here;
>I've written programs for the ST, remember?  There's no Atari CLI;
>they're all third party products.  In other words, there is no
>equivalent to DOS in the Atari world -- as far as ATARI is concerned
>there IS no CLI.  That's all I meant, OK?  And most programmers know
>that you can get a lot more work done with a CLI than you can with WIMP
>interfaces anyway.

   Uh, Dave, Microsoft makes DOS, not IBM (i.e. 3rd-party again).  The
fact that they have a virtual monopoly on IBM DOS (except for DR DOS)
makes them the standard.  As for "wimp" interfaces, would not
OS/2 and Windows then be considered as well? (being non-CLI?).
And those are the main selling points for the PC's right now (if my
286 had the power, I'd probably put one of them on there, but as it
doesn't at the moment, I don't).  I sometimes will run MiNT/TcShell
combination, as the commands, etc are just about identical to unix
(actually taught myself some unix by playing with the combination) -
so while it's not an "Atari standard" it is easily used by those who've
played with unix...

>Second, the ST doesn't run Unix.  It can't run Unix because it isn't
>capable of doing virutal memory.  (It does run Minix, though; I'll
>give you that they're similar.)

   Dave, could you give me a short description of virtual memory and
what it takes to do it?  I assume (correct me if wrong) that the Windows
SWAP file would be considered virtual memory?  Why would doing something
like that not be capable on an Atari?  Just curious.

>Finally, if you're going to followup a post of mine, you could at least
>insult me by name.

   Or better yet, not insult anyone at all!

>>Hard drives are not 'cheap', $250 is a lot of money for poor folks like
>>myself!  (For a decent drive....)
>
>Yet you (pl.) expect us to put in the X thousand hours required to
>write something Game Workbench when you can't pay the $200 or so it
>costs to justify making it?

   Depends if you could use the software.  Something like Game Workbench
would seem like a great thing for game programmers.  But for simply
hobbyists, it does not seem necessary.  And this net seems to be
inhabited by more hobbyists that "professional Atari programmers."  (there
are some, like Eric Smith, etc, but the majority are probably not
Atari programmers).

   As for the hard drive, probably the best investment I've made in
my system (makes life SO much easier to deal with instead of disk
swapping all the time).  And to think, I survived on an Atari 8-bit
with CASSETTE RECORDER for like a year.  But of course, I was a
kid, and barely had enough money for a couple comic books, much less
a hard drive (BTW my first computer was a Christmas present I asked
for, since I couldn't afford buying it then).  Of course, I'm still
stuck at 30megs since right now I can't justify getting a larger HD
yet.  I'd like one, but I have other things to worry about as well
(rent, car payment, etc)...

>>So GEM is not a Real OS is it!?  Damn, what have I been using for the
>>last 5 years then!?
>
>An early, buggy version of a poorly designed single-tasking OS.

   But it works and is functional.  An OS is supposed to be
functional, not *necessarily* elegant (though it could be).  I went
from TOS 1.0 to 1.4 and finally 2.05, and have had very little 
problems in the process.


>
>Dave Baggett
>--
>dmb@ai.mit.edu           MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory                  
>ADVENTIONS: interactive fiction (text adventures) for the 90's!
>dmb@ai.mit.edu *** Compu$erve: 76440,2671 *** GEnie: ADVENTIONS

   Oh well, life goes on...

					Robert Anisko
					anisko@usdtsg.daytonoh.ncr.com


"did ya ever notice that Kathlie Lee Gifford is in EVERY television
show it seems, and Michael Caine in EVERY movie???  hmmmm...."