HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shire@dorsai.com (Kenneth Shire)
Subject: Re: Mahler novice
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:45:35 GMT

> symphonies. My question is: which symphonies to buy and which
> conductor(s)?
> 
I have been pleasantly surprised by some Mahler performances by Eliahu 
Inbal recording with the Frankfurt Radio Symphony on Denon.  First, the 
recorded sound is exceptionally clear.  Mahler's orchestras tend to the 
humongous.  The denon engineers help Inbal bring out inner voices with a 
simple, clear sound that in very easy on the ears without losing the 
visceral impact needed for the big crescendos.  It is nice to report that 
Inbal turns in sensitive accounts of the 1st and 2nd symphonies.  I 
haven't heard any of his other performances so I can't comment on them, 
though he seems to be a solid Mahler interpreter.  The 1st is a good 
place to start because the first three movements are very tightly 
composed, and use many of the folk melodies which were to be Mahler's 
lifelong source of inspiration.  The fourth movement of the 1st is his 
first music in his somewhat bombastic mode, which puts off the same kind 
of people who can't stomach Wagner.  The second symphony, sometimes 
called The Resurrection, is simply gorgeous.  You get a big dose of 
Mahler's choral and solo voice writing.  The whole thing is basically 
composed in his "bombastic" mode and it is one of the most beautiful 
compositions I've ever heard.  At a live performance by Yoel Levi and the 
Atlanta (?) Symphony performing in New York's Avery Fisher Hall, my wife 
and I were reduced to tears by the overwhelming yearning in the score.  

It seems obvious that you are going to get a confusing bunch of 
recommendations.  The best you can do is borrow a friend's favorite 
recording of some Mahler, or borrow from a library, if that is possible.  
That way, you get to hear before buying, a sure way to avoid those, "What 
did I shell out so much money for" blues.  Happy hunting !

kenneth 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Requia
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:37:31 GMT

In article <r8ubopx@Unify.Com> dbrus.Unify.Com.ceb@unify.uucp (Caroline E. Bryan) writes:
>Contrary to the recent assertion by one of our opera buffs that non-opera
>classical music fans invariably point to symphonies as the only music they
>listen to, I'm a devoted fan of Requiems (Requia if your Latin's not so
>rusty). 

Who's rusty here?  The nominative singular is requies; I believe that's
the plural, too.

> Can anyone recommend (with reasons) any specific requia (w/ or w/o
>particular recordings)?  I already know and enjoy

>	Durufle
>	Faure
>	Gilles (need a pointer to a CD recording of this)
>	Mozart (about the only Mozart I like -- he was over-pianoed in my
>		youth)

Try some of the operas if you don't like Mozart.  Or the last symphonies,
the last 11 piano concerti, the Viennese chamber music...

Anyway:
Ockeghem
Berlioz
Brahms German Requiem
Schuetz Musikalische Exequien
Berg Violin Concerto (In memory of an angel)
and on and on.

Roger
From: elkies@germain.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Requia
Date: 12 Dec 92 21:53:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Dec12.165349.18438
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Dec11.153934.18682@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:
>* Brahms' German Requiem: rather unorthodox to say the least, since he does
>not use the Latin liturgy, but rather his own selection of texts from the
>Bible (in German, hence the title).

Unorthodox perhaps, but not without precedent (Schutz).

>                         Conspicuously absent is any equivalent
>to the "dies irae, dies illa, solvet seclum in favilla": it is a more
>hopeful, peaceful and consolatory work than most requiems.

Well, there is the part after the solo baritone's announcement
of the "Letzte Posaune"...  You want a peaceful requiem, how about
the Faure?

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Subject: lost masterpieces was re:
Reply-To: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:04:45 EST

  >    Subject: Lost Masterpieces was Re: Dresden was Re: One-work-composers

S
SA>In fact, the exchange about Dresden which prompted my question
  >brought Schutz to mind.  I've always assumed that the firebombing
  >was responsible for the loss of at least some of Schutz's work, but
  >your reply to the original poster suggests that this is not so.
  >What's the story here?

SA>>--The other 100 Bach cantatas
  >>...and, of course, John Ernest Galliard's Sonata for 24 bassoons
  >>and continuo -- though that one may have been destroyed on purpose.  8-)

SA>Nuts.

If you're looking for a recording with a need for an unreasonable
number of wind players ... try Handel's Musick for the Royal Fireworks
on Hyperion with a (supplemented) King's Consort. The 1749 scoring they
play calls for 24 oboes, 12 bassoons, 9 trumpets, 9 horns, 4 sets of
timpani and deaf neighbours.

Alexander Inglis  |  InterNet: alexander.inglis@canrem.com
Toronto,  Canada  |  CompuServe: 70307,20     BIX: ainglis
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwilmer@gateway (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: How to read orchestral scores?
Keywords: scores, orchestra
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:59:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.220402.4757@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
 >In article <1992Dec15.165025.15334@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, lungtt@gus5.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung) writes:
 >> In article <BzA0ts.GIx@news.cso.uiuc.edu> al21146@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Feynman Albert LiFeynman ) writes:
 >> >2. Is it possible to self-train in score reading? Almost all my musical 
 >> >  knowledge I know I learned on my own, by reading books and trial and error.

I worked with an excellent score-reading training book by
Morris and Ferguson (published, I think, by Cambridge or Oxford Press).

Richard
From: zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Prokofiev's 5th Symphony
Date: 19 Dec 92 23:50:52 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Mike Hurben (hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU) wrote:

:   Well, being the original poster, I can tell you that it was not the "big
: tune" aspect - I am not sure what that means.  It is simply that it sounds
: so utterly unlike anything I have ever heard.  I mean, to me, all great 
: composers have a unique and instantly recognizable voice, but there is always
: some 'blending' - for example, in Shostakovich I pick up a little Mahler
: sometimes, a little Vaughn Williams sometimes,  etc... this is not to flame
: DS, I love his music...my point is, Prokofiev is really out there in his own
: little world, and it is a very bizzare one at that.  I have been listening to
: the 5th a lot lately, and every time it is over, I have to go back and listen
: to the closing moments - the finale is so strange, every time I hear it I just
: cannot believe someone actually sat down and wrote THAT.  It really freaks me
: out, and I love it :)

Yes, that was exactly the same reaction *I* had when I heard the 5th the first 
time.  Exactly the same reaction.

I had heard the "Classical" symphony before, and saw a listing in the Musical Heritage Society (RIP...Yes, I know they're not dead, but they might as well be)
catalog for the Complete P Symphs.  Now, usually, when MHS issued multiple 
record sets, they'd indicate this in parentheses after the listing, but for
the P symphonies, they just listed two volumes, presumably of one record each.
As I was only familiar with the Classical Symph, and knew that to be short,
I figured the guy wrote *seven* short symphones, that would conventiently fit
on two LPs!  Ha-ha!  A couple weeks later, the postman comes up my steps lugging
a VERY BIG box and a VERY BIG invoice for something like $45.95.  (I was
about thirteen or fourteen years old at the time, and just getting into
classical music.  To spend $45 then was insane.)  

Even though I planned to return the boxes, I played the LPs first anyway, 
just once, on my very good and well maintained equipment (so shoot me).
"What the hell is *this*???" was my reaction to most of them.  I wondered
why the First was so, so, soooooo different from the rest.

Even though I found the pieces puzzling, I was drawn to them, and eventually
explored them, one by one, on my own.

BTW, a very good performance of the 5th, even though most people wouldn't think
of this conductor as good for Prokofiev, is Ormandy-Philadelphia Orch. on RCA,
recorded in 77 or 78.  Don't know if it's still around, but worth getting if
it is.


John

zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


: Mike Hurben
From: stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: The BEST finale!
Date: 16 Dec 1992 15:38:47 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner)
NNTP-Posting-Host: o233-12.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

I just listened to Brahm's Symphony #1 over and over and over...  The  
final movement is possibly the BEST ending to a classical piece I have  
ever heard!  That sparked me to ask this question to find out what else I  
should listen to to hear some amazing endings:

What is YOUR favorite ending or finale to a classical piece?

--
Kevin T. Stiner                    |"Space is big, really big!"
stinerkt@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu  |--Hitchhiker's Guide to the 
AMIGA 4000      Serial No. 000403  |  Galaxy
NeXT mail encouraged!!             |
From: douglas@rhi.hi.is (Douglas Brotchie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Too Polite (was Re: news: pavarotti booed out
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:22:52 GMT

In <1992Dec15.150531.19216@news2.cis.umn.edu> jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield) writes:

>I live in Minnesota, "Home of the Obligatory Standing Ovation" (tm).
>I have never been to a concert where there wasn't a SO, whether
>the performance was good, bad, or indifferent.

>So, my questions:  Does this happen anywhere else?  And what are *your*
>criteria for a standing ovation?  What has to happen to bring you
>to your feet?

>Jill

Alas, yes, I know this phenomenon from Iceland.

The criteria are hard to define, and seem to be based on audience
psychology on each individual occasion.  Often though it's possible
to know before going to a concert whether or not there will be a
standing ovation, based on the advance reputation of the conductor/
orchestra/soloist(s).

Any orchestral work with a noisy exuberant finale is a good (though not
inevitable) candidate.
Any large work for orchestra and choir (with a noisy &tc.) is a very
likely candidate.
Any soloist who is either world-famous, or alternatively advertised
as such, are likely contenders.
If they're local, add 10 probability points.
If they're little old ladies, add 10 probability points.

The over-use of the (obligatory) standing ovation is sad, since it
detracts from its value as a message on the few occasions when it
is really deserved.

Douglas
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Subject: Shostakovitch and Debussy
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:23:26 GMT

It seems to me that these composers inhabit different universes, without 
much overlap. Nonetheless, let me try you on a few middle-ground 
recommendations:

Stravinsky: Rite of Spring/Petrouchka--post-Debussian harmonic language 
            with a Russian inflection
Prokofieff: Piano sonatas
Bartok:     Concerto for Orchestra
Lutoslawki  Concerto for Orchestra
Britten:    Four Sea Interludes and Passacaglia from Peter Grimes
Schonberg:  Five Pieces for Orchestra

That oughta do it for now. Actually the Bartok Concerto contains a spoof 
of the Shostakovitch 7th Symphony. You'd probably like a lot of 
Prokofieff, who shared a delight in harmonic twists with Shostakovitch. I 
gotta go.

Cheers

r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Subject: Re: Requia
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:40:34 GMT

In article <CB.92Dec14105132@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>
>I didn't study Latin but my wife did.  We agreed that more than one
>kleenex would be several kleenices, and she informed me that more than
>one thermos would be several thermores.  I want to get these things right.
     ^^^^^
But the word being Greek in origin, shouldn't we say thermoi? :-)

A French humorist used to make fun of such pedantry by suggesting 
that the plural of "autobus" (or bus in English) should be autobi.

Follow-ups to comp.language.latin and alt.fan.cicero

-- 

	Francois Velde

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: benjamin@NEBULA.SSD.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: George Rochberg
Reply-To: benjamin@NEBULA.SSD.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 01:36:43 GMT

In article <Z3JVB0YB@cc.swarthmore.edu>, abrocke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Aaron Brockett) writes:
>I'm interested in people's opinions on George Rochberg--his music, life,
>writings, whatever. 
>
His String Quartet #3, recorded by the Concord Quartet on Nonesuch, is one
of my favorite classical music pieces.  Alas, the recording is out of print,
and the Concord Quartet has disbanded.  :-(

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: strong@tc.fluke.COM (Norm Strong)
Subject: Xmas CD
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:40:04 GMT

It's time for my annual Xmas CD, and I'm looking for recommendations.

It should be for chorus, with or without accompaniment, and have lots of
rarely heard music.  I don't want another CD with the usual English
stuff.  

If anyone has heard a particularly good CD in this past year, please let
me in on the secret.  

Thanks so much,
-- 

Norm Strong  (strong@tc.fluke.com)
2528 31st S.   Seattle WA 98144   USA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rsm13@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Ravi S Moorthy)
Subject: Re: virgin classics, r.i.p. 
Reply-To: rsm13@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Ravi S Moorthy)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:29:05 GMT

I was surprised that EMI would do such a thing and therefore enquired
at the local HMV store.  

According to the people at HMV EMI has just temporarily stopped the
issue of the Virgin classics numbers so that it can renumber all the
recordings. 

Ravi



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,alt.conspiracy
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Wagner and Jews?
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 06:36:20 GMT

In article <92353.180441CSVBMD@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> <CSVBMD@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:
>I've 

Who?

>followed this line regarding the most tragic and horrible events in
>the history of mankind and, as a person who lost many relatives during
>WW II, I'd like to make a couple of remarks which will (hopefully) shed
>some light on this topic. It's difficult to know Wagner's real feelings
>regarding Jews, 

Why?  He wrote extensively on the topic.

>but it is not difficult to know what Hitler's were.
>Hitler regarded Wagner's music as THE prime inspiration for his awful
>work. 

He said this on occasion, but there's not too much evidence for it.
In fact, it seems more as though Hitler were wrapping himself in 
Wagner's mantle with such remarks.  

>As a young man, Hitler was so fascinated with Wagner that he toyed
>with the idea of writing an opera himself. 

Mahler, Schoenberg, Bruckner, Wolf, Strauss, Berg, Debussy, and others
felt that way too at one time or another.  Wagner's music and libretti
are quite compelling, no doubt about it.

>Winafred Wagner (the composer's
>ardent NAZI daughter-in-law) claimed during the 1970's that if Hitler
>walked through the doors, she would run and throw her arms around her
>long lost friend and idol.........

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything in particular.

>Wagner's own son, Sigfried, considered
>the Nazi's to be charlatans (he didn't live to see Hitler take over Germany,
>but he was evidentally a close family friend and visitor of the Wagner
>years before he became a political power to be reckoned with). 

I take it that "he" refers to Hitler in the second half of your prarenthesis.
In any case, he was *not* a friend of the Wagners until well after he 
had become a major political figure.  

I still don't know what all this has to do with anything, though.  Wagner
was not his descendants.

>Who can blame Jews (and others) for banning his music.

Well, one can blame them for banning it on misinformed grounds...on the
other hand, there are very few such bans, and many rumors and myths floating
about wrt Wagner.

>I wish that this whole thing had never happened, but the influence of
>Wagner on the most evil man that ever lived was not insignificant.

Also true of Beethoven, unfortunately.  Also Napoleon, Henry the Lion, 
Frederick the Great, and others.  They all influenced Hitler.  Where 
does this lead?

>I am an admirer of Wagner's talent, but sometimes I feel I'm admiring
>something evil (Lucifer was supposed to be the most beautiful of the
>angels in heaven......)

One more time: what about it?  I'm not at all sure I know what your 
point is.

Roger
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The worst composer in a millenium
Date: 18 Dec 1992 20:57:18 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Jack Campin (jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk) wrote:
: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) wrote:
: > Thoroughly recommended is the Ondes Martinot movement in the 7-stars
: > symphony by Koechlin, a gentle and soothing work about as different as it
: > is possible to be from the majestic Turangalila...
: Has "Seven Stars" ever been recorded?  
It available on an EMI Classics "L'Esprit Francais" recording. 0777 7
64369 2 0. Alexandre Myrat conducts the Monte Carlo Philharmonic Orchestra.
Francoise Pellie plays the Ondes. Also on the CD is the Ballade for piano and orchestra.

: Which star gets the Ondes Martinot?
It's Greta Garbo. The piece of music is Choral Paien, and is 4'01" of
perfect serenity.

The other pieces are Douglas Fairbanks, Lilian Harvey, Clara Bow,
Marlene Dietrich, Emil Jannings and Charlie Chaplin. The movement for
the last-named is a tour-de-fource of 13 variations on his name, including
two tangos, a lullaby and a barcarolle.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Subject: re: Holst (was: best one-work composers)
Reply-To: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Telstar
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:36:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.022555.25708@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis) writes:
>More than one person has mentioned Gustav Holst in the "best one-work 
>composers" thread.


The question here is: what does the phrase 'one-work composer' mean.
Does it mean 'a composer who wrote lots of stuff, all of which is
garbage except for one renowned masterpiece'? Of does it mean
'a composer who wrote lots of good stuff, of which only one piece,
and possible not his/her best, is at all well known'?

Holst clearly fits the latter model, and is possibly its exemplar.
Even here though there are problems. Most posters assume that, in
Holst's case, the 'one work' is _The Planets_. One poster, however,
clearly felt that it was the Suites for military band which are the
basis of Holst's one-work recognition.

So, while there is much of Holst's music that deserves to be better-known,
it's far from clear that his reputation today (such as it is) rests on
only one work even now.


>*>   Michael J. Valinis   -=+<*>+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   <*


Don Pajerek

Standard disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: sweaver3@mach1.wlu.ca (scott weaver 9209 U)
Subject: Re: Good music for brass quintet
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:57:04 GMT

Adam Ronthal (ronthal-adam@yale.edu) wrote:
: I just returned from one of the classical music shops in the area and, once
: again, found myself completely disgusted by the available selection of
: music.  I'm looking for good brass quintet music, not cheesy arrangements
: of other stuff for brass quintet, but stuff that was actually written
: for the medium.  For example the Victor Ewald quintets, and I think Malcom
: Arnolde wrote one.  Does anyone know if there are any CDs with this type
: of stuff on them?  
: 
Sorry, don't know about CD's with brass quintet music (other than Canadian
Brass, Empire Brass, ...).  There is another good brass quintet piece out
there called "Suite from the Monteregian Hills" by Dennis Calvert (he's
Canadian even!).  Makes use of the theme from the Quebec Christmas Carol.


: Adam
: 
: -- 
:    /|\  /|~\   Adam M. Ronthal BR'94    |    ronthal-adam@yale.edu	
:   /-| \/ |_/   P.O. Box 607 Yale Stn.   |    ronthal@minerva.cis.yale.edu
:  /  |    | \   New Haven, CT   06520    |    ronthal@pop.cis.yale.edu
: 
-- 
Scott B. Weaver		Internet: sweaver3@mach1.wlu.ca
"Dream Weaver"		UUCP: ...!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!mach1!sweaver3
Patience comes to 	Snail: 2C-264 Regina Street North
those who wait...	       Waterloo, Ontario, Canada N2J 3B7
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: ?:Dvorak's use of PENTATONIC scale?
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:50:17 GMT

In article <1git94INNnae@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> ST801578@brownvm.brown.edu () writes:
>I was just listening to Dvorak's "American" String Quartet.  I noticed that
>among this and several other of his works, Dvorak loves to throw in melodies
>based on the pentatonic scale.  I don't know too much about Dvorak and was
>wondering if the pentatonic scale was a scale he used a lot.  Where did

Yes, quite a bit.  Many of his melodies are pentatonic for long stretches.

> he get his obsession with this scale if it is used a lot?  Correct me
>if I'm wrong, this scale gives music a oriental like quality.  Hmm..
>that raises another question, is oriental music really pentatonic?  Has

Some is.  There are all kinds of different tunings, but many have five-note
scales not unlike the Western pentatonic ones.

>it really been based on that scale?  Thanks in advance for taking the
>time to read this and perhaps to fill in the many gaps in my knowledge
>about music.

All at once?  Gee...8-)

Roger

(For a pentatonically good time, try "My Girl," or even "Like a Virgin."