From: vehaag@crocus.waterloo.edu (Viktor Haag)
Subject: Re: CHAMPS: question on turn sequencing
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:40:35 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.154010.27608@mcs.anl.gov> sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso) writes:
>
>>In your interpretation, dodge is nearly worthless. If you want to dodge,
>>you can never attack. Eventually someone will get lucky and hit you.
>>This means that dodge is only useful if there is help comming real soon.
>>
>I've been reading this discussion with interest and amazement.  
>As I see it, a dodge is an all out defensive maneuver.  If you dodge,
>you cannot do anything else.  The concept of using your dodge for
>defense while you attack is ludicrous.  That is what your DCV is
>for.

I agree -- dodging is an all out thing.  For most people this is effective
when used against opponents of roughly equal CV and same or less speed.

For those who want the ability to attack and still maintain a better than
base DCV, two options were created.  The first, simultating those who
can attack while maintaining a defensive posture was the Martial Arts
packages.  Defensive strike in particular is a good example of this, as was
Martial Disarm, or Martial Block.  The second, simulating long experience
in combat, and the holistic "know-how" is skill levels, which can be applied
to CV -- thus you can decide for your phase whether your past experience in 
combat will be used to augment your hitting capability, or your ability to
avoid being hit.

I think that this is quite sufficient.

>There is no concept of keeping up your dodge indefinately, and taking
>only half of your attacks in the rules.  At least I cannot find it.

And neither should there be.  A smart and fast character will Dodge on
"popular" segments and then act on the "unpopular ones".  This is a good
way to take out unthinking minions and agents.  It allows you (against
slower opponents) to have at least one attack per turn, while still
maintaining optimum protection.  Of course, "smart" agents will notice
that you are dodging a lot and will have a couple people train on you and
wait for that segment when you wish to move, and then preempt.  In this
case, as with those of equal or better speed, you had better keep dodging
if you want to remain unhittable.

>Also, taking a dodge does not cripple the character if and only if
>he has a higher speed than his opponent.  He will eventually get to
>act.  Even with speed higher by one, the dodger can attact once per
>turn.

True but the smart opponent, of even lesser speed, will simply wait for the
character to attempt to act, and then pre-empt (by holding a phase).

>Besides, in a super campaign, dodge is not very useful.  It is too
>easy for people to buy +10 OCV with an attack, for 20 pts.  Or even
>+15, or +20.  Or just hit you with an AOF.  Then you have to abort
>to a dive for cover.

Nonsense, you just buy some of those levels yourself.  The levels, combined
with martial dodge can be effective.  Two things to keep in mind here though.
Firstly, *I personally would not let a character get away with that many
levels on an attack without a *very good reason, and certainly not at 
beginning power levels.  Secondly, area effect attacks are the most efficient
means of discommoding the madly martial dodging kungfu fighter.  That and
mental attacks.




-- 
Viktor Haag 
		            |  "We are not thugs.  We are not fanatics.
vehaag@crocus.uwaterloo.ca  |   We are vitamin supplements to justice."   
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