HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ppxpmd@mips.nott.ac.uk (P.Debenham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: TANGENT:  Interpretation
Date: 11 Sep 92 09:29:00 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham

The writer who was holding the KJV up as the pinicle of English translation
was saying 'surely God is powerful enough to make sure the translation is
right so why bother with all these modern translations'  (I am paraphrasing.
I hope correctly)
Point is, why pick on the KJV.  It is NOT the oldest English translation.
There were I believe two English trnslations before the KJV, the Whytcliffe
(or however you spell it.  My sources are at homme).  Why not use these.
Alternatively, there were English translations of the NT about even earlier
than these.  Should these take presidence.
What I am trying to say is that because a translation of the Bible in a
particular language was either the first, or the first one done with the
authority of the church in some cases (which Church becomes an argument
there), it is not necessarily the definative Bible hundreds of years later.
Appreciation of source documents changes as older ones are found, including
quotes from the early Church Fathers.  Also the language the translation was
made into changes.  I read English from early middle ages through to C20
currently and word meanings have shifted, sometimes in quite an amazing way.
To get someone with no church background to read the KJV involves teaching
them almost as much as teaching a foreign language would do.  To read Old
English (say C6 to C11) IS a foreign language to modern eyes (or at least
is to one trying to learn it).  Even if no new appreciation of original
language source documents occur, new translations would be needed as the
language of the translation passes into obscurity.  We might regret this but
that does not change the truth of it.
   God's word is truth.  If people who are not christian are to have any
chance of understanding that they need to be able to understand the
translation of that word.  For christians to use less understandable
translations (less understandable without working at it anyway) is personal
preference but by the time the work has been done there you may as well
learn to read Koine and Aramaic (not THAT difficult).  For outreach though
stick to modern language and idiom.

Peter D
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: u925816@postoffice.utas.edu.au (The DOK)
Subject: Re: Humorously Diverse Tastes
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 07:53:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.050103.14266@athena.mit.edu>, pepsi@athena.mit.edu (Geoffrey R Gustafson) writes:
>
> 
> If anyone would like to joke with me about this, chat about any of the great
> music, or discuss how TC it is (a term I believe I invented, Theologically
> Correct), please do.  Grace and peace to you in the name of Christ Jesus,
> 
> 						Geoff Gustafson
> 						pepsi@athena.mit.edu
> 
> 

Hey I'll talk about diverse musical tastes
Midnight Oil
Mortification
U2
Amy Grant (Aimless Grunt?)
Crumbacher
A.D.
REZ
The Call
AVION!!!   (best Aussie rock band)
The list can go on nearly forever!!!!


The DOK
> 
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: osbornjl@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Jr Jon Osborn)
Subject: Change Your World
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:52:52 GMT


There has been some major flamage on MWS lately and I just wanting to make  
a few points.  First as the owner of all of Micheal's albums I find that  
i2(EYE) is by far the best and I am not looking for him to make a better  
one.  If he does then God likes the boy an awful lot.  If you aproach  
Change Your World with this in mind you will not be as disapointed.  I  
thought the album musically and lyricly was better than Go West Young Man  
which I thought at points rancked up there with Friendship Company (the  
title track for example.).  My first impresion ot Change Your World was  
that it was MWS's Heart in Motion, lean on doctrine.  There is alot in the  
way of love songs on Picture Perfect, Tell the World, and Somewhere,  
Somehow all fall in this catagory but I don't think that this makes the  
album un-Christian, love between a man and wife is very biblical and none  
of these songs ecourage the "one night stand" idea that I hear in most  
"secular" songs.  However Cross of Gold, Love One Another, and most  
importantly Out of This World have (in my opinion) good biblical messages.   
Out of This World I feel is very important because no one ever hears about  
the sin of greed anymore.  Christ talked about money and how it should and  
should not be used in 60% of his sermons (Larry Brickett's numbers).  I  
hear everone talk about how sex and drugs are bad for our socicity, but  
greed has brought it to the economic brink of destruction.  Very few CCM  
artist have directly opposed greed in there music that I hear on the  
radio.  (I doubt I will hear Out of This World on the radio) Micheal has  
taken a stand on it here and I hope to here more in the future.  
	The upshot of all this is that this is not a Carman album if you  
want good bible thumping stick with Petra, Carman, and Steve Camp.  The  
album made me think harder than anything off of "Great Adventure" that I  
have heard.  AT FIRST I HATED THE ALBUM!  I wanted and still want another  
i2(EYE) this album is not that.  It will however be much more useful in  
the work I do with young people than The Champion.  My bigest complant is  
that we already have two versions of Friends we did not need a third one.   
All in all after really listing to how the album MADE ME FEEL I think is  
is better than your average $10-15 investment.

Jay Osborn@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu  
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: AVERNON1@ua1vm.ua.edu (Andrew Vernon)
Subject: Re: Amy Grant's upcoming albums
Organization: The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 00:20:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.002427.27723@nuscc.nus.sg>
isc30366@nusunix2.nus.sg (HO TUCK CHIUN) writes:
>
>   I hate to rain on your parade, but there are quite a number of errors
>in your posting.  Firstly, Word, Inc. and A&M are currently releasing
>all of her albums.  In fact, Amy is signed onto to record companies,
>namely Word, Inc. and A&M.  Whatever albums she releases will be on both
>labels.
>   As for Reunion being a former Word subsidiary.. well, it was never a
>Word subsidiary.  Reunion has and still is a record company on it's own.
>It was started by Blanton and Harrell and is still owned by them.  In
>fact, the only reason why you see Geffen or Word printed on the inlays
>is because all of Reunion's releases are now being distributed to the
>mainstream by Geffen and to the Christian market by Word, Inc.
 
Rodney,
You mean, if I had bought my new copy of "The Collection" from a
Christian bookstore it would have had Word's imprint and that the
copy I bought from a mainstream record store is the only one I'll see
Reunion's?
The collectors oughta have a field day with this :-)
 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  A n d r e w   V e r n o n =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                       Anything is possible...
   BITNET: AVERNON1@UA1VM  DGIF#9691  Internet: AVERNON1@UA1VM.UA.EDU
           The University of Alabama  Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian

>None [i.e no sins] are acceptable...But in this case, if Patti is
>confronted that divorse is wrong and goes through with it anyway, then perhaps
>her label does need to step in and act.
>
>					Richard M. Bennema
>--

Perhaps her *church elders* should step in ... I see little Biblical precedent
for a record company to exercise that kind of discipline...


>Okay, so what should be done when it's the record label itself who is doing
>the sinning? I have heard that Word is actually a pretty money hungry bunch
>of people. That is why they sold out to Epic records. A friend of mine now
>looks very closely at what label an artist records under before he considers
>purchasing an album from that artist.
>
>Russ

In ten years of regular pilgrimages to the YMCA of the Rockies for the 
Christian Artists Seminar, I've seen many deeply committed christian artists,
A&R reps, writers, even an executive or two ;-). Ive also seen some who were
clearly *not*. I've also seen a surprising lack of spiritual knowledge by a 
few who should *really* know better. I can't say that any one record company
stood out as *either* a candidate for sainthood *or* for "the great Whore".

BTW, If I may moderate this string a bit, I'd rather see if focus on what
what's sick in the industry, and changes in the industry could help keep 
committed christian artists  from stumbling, not "whether Sandi's contract 
should be cancelled". 

Bob (still wanna write that letter) Miller
From: jsdonald@david.wheaton.edu (Joel S. Donaldson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Whiteheart....
Keywords: Freedom...
Date: 12 Sep 92 23:44:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: wheaton.1992Sep12.234435.27161
Organization: Wheaton College, IL

>As well, does anyone know if Whiteheart coming to either Chicago or
>Indy in the near future??

Whiteheart is doing Second Saturday in Chicago on October 10th with Rachel
Rachel opening.  It should kick!!

Joel Donaldson
Computer Science/Mathematics Major
Wheaton College
--
 ____________________________________________________________________________
/jsdonald@wheaton.uucp			-UUCP      |``It's not my fault the  \
|jsdonald@david.wheaton.edu		-Internet  |  mail is two days late''|
|spock@joel.UUCP			-Yet another way!!!		     |
\____________________________________________________________________________/
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: dlg47782@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tegid Tathal)
Subject: Re: Randy Stonehill concert info.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:42:08 GMT

dlg47782@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tegid Tathal) writes:

>custd@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Scott Dreher) writes:

>>There is a rumor going around Charleston, IL that Stonehill is giving a
>>concert in Champaign, IL. Anyone know where, when, and how much tickets
>>are? 

>However, I am calling the church tommorow and will post
>any available info as I recieve it.

>			Tegid

Just got off the phone with them.  Here's the news:
Yes, there is a concert Sun, Sept 20.
He is giving two mini-concerts at each Sunday morning service (8:30 and 10:00)
and then an open air concert (general admission) at 6:00 pm at the park across
from the church (2905 Southwood Dr., Champaign ... I think).  Thats it...

	Lev 19 (the whole chapter...)
			Tegid

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Reply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 14:30:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.114350.27292@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, noel@crs.cl.msu.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>But that wasn't the question - the question was whether it was bad for
>Greg Volz to perform it.  If that song will cause brothers or sisters to
>stumble, then their obligation is not to perform it.  Again, we're dealing
>with an issue of rights vs. what is right.  Sure, they have every right
>to perform it, but should they?  A song that has the connotations that 
>Dream On has for many, I don't think it's appropriate.

I thought the question was the morality/amorality of the song.

Anyway, what you say is quite true.  However, in a concert setting, Greg or
whomever is not going to know the backgrounds of every person.  By your
logic, no one should ever perform a concert because one of the songs in the
show might have bad associations for the audience.  (As someone else has posted,
a Christian song could have bad associations just as secular songs do.)  The
performer cannot know.  You raise a very good point, one that I cannot refute,
but the song is still not bad for me because it doesn't have the associations
it has for you.

  -- Scott @Brandeis

                           I asked Jesus,
                     "How much do you love me?"
                     "This much," He answered;
                        and He stretched out
                         His arms and died.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman)
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Information on the Singing Rambos
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 12:41:54 GMT

In article <88521@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>In article <24880@oasys.dt.navy.mil> dudley@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Karen Witkoski) writes:
>>I'm a new subscriber to this newsgroup.  I'd like to know if anyone
>>is familiar with a religious group known as the Singing Rambos. 
>
>Do they wear camouflage and tout uzis?  8-)  
>
>Sorry, that was just too good to pass up.  If anyone does indeed know
>where a copy of their album (or tape) can be found, I'd like to know,
>too.  I have a friend that I'd like to send it to ... (but Karen gets
>first dibs).

Heh.  I actually remember these folks.  My guess is that their albums
are long out of print, and so the only real hope of finding the music 
is the painstaking process of scoping out used record stores.  
Another (and probably even less likely) source is to contact 
the recently resurrected Capricorn Records, the label that recorded 
The Allman Brothers and a host of other southern fried boogie bands 
back in the early seventies.  The Rambos were the opening act for The 
Allman Brothers on a couple of tours, and they supplied background
vocals for a couple of Gregg Allman and Dickie Betts solo
albums.  It's a long shot, but maybe the label could provide
more information.

I don't remember much about the music.  It was fairly pleasant
southern gospel, I suppose.  I *do* remember Dottie Rambo's hair,
which scaled to magnificent heights and made her look about 7'6".

>Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
>
>I believe we are on the irreversible trend toward more freedom and
>democracy -- but that could change.   -- J. Danforth Quayle  

Andy Whitman
AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio
att!cblpn!ajw  or
ajw@cblpn.att.com

(who's still looking for The Singing Balboas)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian

In rec.music.christian, djm@eng.umd.edu (David J. MacKenzie) writes:

> Anyone know of a Biblically based critique or perspective of dance?...

> I don't have a problem with dance in worship ... but social
> dancing generally makes me uncomfortable... And then there's performance 
> dance, like jazz and ballet.  I don't know much about that.  I'd like to 
> see someone take a good look at dancing from perspectives like integrity 
> in relationships, honoring God, self-expression, friendship, and creativity.
> 
> I've found books on art and music from a Christian perspective, but
> nothing on dance.  Anyone have any leads?

Re/ social dancing, I have none, other than your local bookstore where you'll
undoubtedly find some books denouncing same. I'd suggest the discussion of
that belongs in soc.religion.christian more than r.m.c. Personally, I don't 
have much use for it...

Re/ liturgical and artistic dancing, I can help *a bit*. Some leads:

Give Christian Artists Corp in Denver,CO a call (use dir. asst -- I don't have
the # here). Ask for their tape order form for the last C/A seminar; there were
several seminars on dance in the church...

Another lead might be Ballet Magnificat in Jackson, MS. (again...dir asst). 
Someone there should be well-acquainted with any published discussions of 
issues of dance and christianity. They certainly have opinions...if nothing
else they can sell you a *dynamite* video...

If you wish to further discuss artistic/liturgical dance in this forum, I'd 
be happy to offer my two bits...it probably should be a "tangent" and should
be good for a lively "discussion"...;-)

I'm not much of a dancer myself, in my 2nd year of ballet...but I've kind of
acquired some basic philosophy of same in a christian context. Just as in 
music performance, there are issues that need to be worked through to develop
dance choreography and styles which are compatible with a Christian statement.
(maybe *that* statement is the opening flamebait...can *dance* make a moral
statement if there are no words? ;-) 

There are also issues even in artistic dance of guarding one's self sexually.
If you have a problem with your mind around rather scantily dressed and usually
well-built dancers, stay away from the dance studio. But I've kind of found 
that I got used to it and feel comfortable now. Actually the hardest part was
dressing *myself* in tights & a T-shirt (a *long* T-shirt ;-). Not necessarily
a pretty sight!!!;-) Incidentally *very* few men seem to get involved in 
Christian artistic dance. I was the only registrant out of 1500 at the C/A
seminar to do so. And Ballet Magnificat is looking for men...

Bob (danced 3 hrs a day at the C/A seminar) Miller rhm@hpfirhm.fc.hp.com


Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: isc30366@nusunix2.nus.sg (HO TUCK CHIUN)
Subject: Re: Amy Grant's upcoming album[s]?
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 11:29:50 GMT

ss1@kepler.unh.edu (The Rink) writes:
: 
: I looked in an "upcoming releases" listing somewhere, and discovered Amy Grant
: had a new album coming out in early October (I think it was the 6th) called
: "Home For Christmas."  However, I also saw, in the same listing, *another*
: album coming out in December 1992, the title of which was not available.
: Does anybody know anything about this?  Surely it can't be two new albums of
: new songs released so closely together!?  Perhaps an "In Concert" type tape,
: or another collection of sorts...?

   As far as I can remember, she's got a Christmas album called "Home
For Christmas" which should be released this October.  The other item
that you saw in the listing is probably the video.  Amy, or rather Word
is releasing a video collection of hers for Christmas.  The cover art
work for this video has a picture of hers taken from the back cover of
Lead Me On.  The one where she wears a black evening dress and holds a
bunch of roses in her hands.  Can't really recall what was on the tape,
but I think it's mostly Christmas songs.

: /\     Samuel Stoddard                                ss1@kepler.unh.edu     <>
-- 
Rodney Ho

hotuckch@iscs.nus.sg
isc30366@nusunix1.nus.sg
From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)
Subject: Re: TANGENT (sort of): livin' Godly 'n' all that  (WAS Re: U2's denomination)
Reply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:29:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.164527.22109@rambo.atlanta.dg.com>, wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes:
>    Perhaps this is the wrong newsgroup, but I can't let this one pass.
>    The New Testament has clearly equally strong authority as the Old Testament
>    - with new revelation.  The WORD of GOD was formed before the foundation
>    of the world.  It has been unveiled in God's timetable, first the old
>    covenant, then the new.  Paul said "...by revelation he made known unto
>    me the mystery ... which in other ages WAS NOT [emphasis-mine] made
>    known unto the sons of men, as it is NOW [emphasis-mine] revealed unto
>    his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit." (Eph 3:3-5)
>    There was NEW prophecy and revelation given at the time of Paul as
>    there was in the Old Testament.  But it is all part of the WORD of GOD,
>    established before the foundation of the world.  To attribute authority
>    to the OT and not the NT is not correct.  Hopefully, this is not what you
>    meant.

No, it was not.  Someone had posted that s/he did not interpret the Bible
because of a misunderstanding of 2 Peter 1:20,21 ("But know this first of all,
that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no
prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy
Spirit spoke from God." [NASB]) and I explained it.

>|> Interpretation of the Bible is required because it is unclear on a great many
>|> things (the concept of the Trinity, for example, is an interpretation).  That
>|> is the joy of studying the Bible, the "unfolding" of God's word (from one of
>|> the Psalms, unfolding is the NASB word).  Paul's theology of salvation is an
>|> interpretation of the OT.  And so on.  The job of the of the Holy Spirit is
>|> to guide us in understanding of the Bible.

For completeness, here are the Scriptures to which I refer above (all from 
NASB):

"The unfolding of Thy words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple."
   -- Psalm 119:130

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, He will
teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
   -- John 14:25

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from
God, that we might know the things freely given to us by God, which things we
also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the
Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words."
   -- 1 Corinthians 2:12,13

  -- Scott @Brandeis

                           I asked Jesus,
                     "How much do you love me?"
                     "This much," He answered;
                        and He stretched out
                         His arms and died.