From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour (was Re: HELP WANTED RE KINGDOM AWARDS)
Date: 19 Dec 92 05:39:24
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
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In-reply-to: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM's message of Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:38:43 GMT


whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
] In article <> Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP> writes:
] >Hal Ravn writes:
] >> In article <> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
] >>>this
] >>>armour will protect me in war, which is my primary reason for
] >>>making it : the authenticity issue is secondary.
] >> 
] >> But should it be?
] >
] >Ideally, *both* issues could be addressed.  But if a choice *must* be made
] >between safety and authenticity, I personally choose safety.
]
] I agree wholeheartedly on this point.  However, the reason I asked the
] question in response to that statement is that (first) safety has not
] been an issue in the ongoing discussion.  No one is arguing that steel
] is less safe or that aluminum is.

I could argue that. Given equivalent protection from blows, additional
weight will always be less safe to some extent, even for perfectly 
healthy people. This is especially true of leg armor, I think, where
( as has happened to me ) attempting to run in the additional
weight of armour can cause hyperextension of the knee joint and
resultant tearing of the ligaments. And ligaments never heal
back to their orignal strength (nor do tendons). 

So now I find myself in a knee brace, and I know that my left
knee will never be as durable as once it was. Do I want to
continue using heavy steel ? Well, I will until after we've
made my wife's aluminum : it's not THAT much of a safety issue.

But MY knee problem is minor compared to some other peoples. For
them, it may be extremely important to make armor light.

] The question comes down to (I think)--can one make equipment that 
] meets safety requirements *and* be made as authentic as practical?

But why do we make anything as authentically as possible ? For me,
it's to demonstrate the medeaval art or technology. My intent
in making lamellar is NOT to demonstate how the plates were
forged out of bar stock, which cutting them out of any kind of
sheet metal, whether steel or aluminum. won't do anyway, but
rather I intend to show how those plates went together as armor.

] The original issue was one of *weight*, not safety.

No, the original issue was authenticity. Only one person, Cariadoc,
has raised the issue of whether 0.063 aluminum would weigh about
what period steel would have weighed, which depends on how thick
that steel is, which no one has confessed to knowing yet. A secondary
issue is whether period-weight steel would be adequate protection
for SCA combat.

] In the comment I queried, note that the state is 'protect me in war'.
] *Safety* is not raised as an issue at all.

"Protect me in war" in SCA combat is precisely the same as "keep me
 safe from actual harm in war", since no amount of armour changes
 whether a blow should be accepted as a "kill". I had thought that
 point had already been made in this thread.

] Duke Cariadoc has proposed a solution that meets all *three* points
] the discussion has revolved around--hardened leather is authentic,
] light and safe.

But first : I want to construct metal lamellar armour, and second,
in my opinion aluminum is lighter and safer, and third, it serves 
my reason for being authentic, which is to demonstrate how lamellar
was built, as well as any other metal.

Perhaps we differ on this last point : I see authentic construction
as a means to an end, that end being the dissemination of knowledge.
I don't see it as an end in itself. Perhaps this is an expression
of my engineering soul, which desires a purpose to (almost) all things.
Especially something like metal lamellar, which is a whole lot of work.

other metal. 

]
]	 --Hal
]
]	 Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
]	 Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
] -- 
] Hal Heydt                    |    
] Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
] 510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
] whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
]
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com