Organization: Temple University/SCT Computer Services
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 17:23:09 EST
From:         "Roger A. Phyall" <ROGER@TEMPLEVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Trinity
              20 Nov 1992 00:40:59 GMT from <tthorpe@QUALCOM.QUALCOMM.COM>

On Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:40:59 GMT Tom Thorpe said:
>       Well, That was a well thought out essay. I do have some questions thou.
>Without going to far along Here are the questions.

>        1. How many Spirits are there? GOD the Father is a Spirit, (Jn.4:24)
>The LORD JESUS is a spirit, (2Cor.3:17) The Holy Spirit is Spirit is Spirit by
>definition. Yet there is one spirit. (1Cor. 12:13, Eph. 4:4)
>
To try to answer you in human terms interperting the Scriptures you refer to:
     If you refer back to Martin's essay, one realizes there is only one Spirit
however, human language restricts to appending the word 'Spirit' to the 'Divine
 Persons' of the One and Only Spirit of GOD.

     One must pause and consider:  If GOD be GOD, then is it such a stretch to
conceive that He could come up with a way for GOD Himself to Die for His 'Man'
out of Love for the same which He created? Let's also not forget that I contend
there is evidence that the 'FLESH' named JESUS was when the "SON of GOD" came
into the Trinity, prior He was the Word, remember?

>        2. If Father and Son are co-equal persons, Why did JESUS pray to the
>Father? (Mat. 11:25) Can GOD pray to GOD?
>
     Again, as evidenced in the content of this prayer, JESUS was fully perfect
'Man' with His own will "seperate from *the Father's Will*."  However, at this
time, the Holy Spirit had been bestowed upon Him, and in that context:
     Yes, GOD can pray to GOD!

>        3. Similarly, How can the son not know as much as the father?
>        (Matt. 24:36, Mk. 13:32)
>
     Here, again, how would 'FLESH' know as much as the 'Divine Spirit'?  Don't
forget that while Jesus hung on that Cross, He experienced total seperation of
Himself from "the Father" for the first time in His lifetime.  For 'lifetime'
I speak now of the duration of Jesus in the Flesh.

>       4. Similarly, How can the son not have any Power except what the father
>him? (Jn.5:19,30, 6:38)
>
     Understand as you review these passages that 'the Flesh' of Jesus Christ
had not been deified at this time.  And let's not forget the content of Satan's
temptation of Jesus Christ in re:  How the Hosts of Heaven would jump to His
side if He were to say so.  This suggests that external aid was needed in some
instances by Jesus Christ IN THE FLESH!  I'm not certain of the Scriptures, but
after the Crucifiction, God Himself states that "All power is NOW in His Hands"
refering to the transfigured Jesus Christ!  (try Revelation)

>        5. 5. What about other verses of scripture indicating the inequality
>of the son and the Father? Jn. 8:42, 14:28, 1Cor.11:3
>
     All of these passages refer to Jesus Christ (the "SON") while IN THE FLESH
'as a Man', with the capability to GO HIS OWN WILLFUL WAY at any point in time!

>        6. Did "God the son" die? The bible says the son died, Rom. 5:10,
>If so can God die? can Part of God die?
>
     Here then is the 'mystery'.  Depending on your perception, YES - GOD the
SON died on the Cross; And GOD died for His creation Man.

         DO YOU SEE WHAT A MIGHTY LOVING GOD WE SERVE?


>        7. If the son is eternal and existed at creation, who was his
>mother at that time? We know the son was made of woman. Gal,4:4
>
     AH!  Now we get into it!  "In the beginning was the WORD!"  "And the
WORD was made Flesh!"  BUT, hang onto your seat here, FLESH IS NOT GOD!!
Flesh (Jesus Christ) was transfigured and raised into Heaven and now is seated
at the right hand of GOD, and is now truly "GOD THE SON"!!!!  And yet Jesus is
still and was the "ETERNAL WORD"!!  The "Mother" of the WORD is the Mouth of
GOD! (My humble interpretation!)

>        I have a few other questions like this. I would like to see some
>answers
>these first. Scriptural answers only. I would like to see the reference.

Now those more versed in the Scriptures will have to give you the verses, etc.
I have here tried to bring this 'mystery' into my own human understanding terms
     I do hope this helps some.

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