HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davehyde@tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Exceed Vne or max G's first?
Date: 17 Nov 1992 07:38:38 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


In article <BxtIF1.92H@hfglobe.intel.com>
"zardoz@rx-db.hf.intel.com" <zardoz@rx-db.mit.edu> writes:
>
>I have heard that the windshield in a Taylorcraft
>BC-12D will cave in at about 160 MPH
>and the leading edges collapse at about 180 MPH.

What's Vne?  160, 180, or something less?

And in article <LHE.92Nov16205640@yang.sics.se>
Lars-Henrik Eriksson <lhe@sics.se> writes (paraphrasing myself):


>>Vne is determined by two things: flutter and risk of overstressing the
>>airframe. The first of these depends on true airspeed, the second on
>>indicated airspeed.

>>1)  Both are really dependant on equivalent airspeed, aren't they?

>Yes, but in the speed ranges we talk about the difference is
negligible. (one or two knots or so)

Yeah, you got me there.

>>2)  Risk of overstressing (read: over-g) is really a maneuvering speed
>>issue.
>>You can fly faster, just be aware of where you are.

>It is also a Vne issue. One of the factors determining Vne is that the
>airframe must be able to take a certain amount of turbulence (measured
>as change in vertical wind speed) without being overstressed.

Didn't know that.  I thought that's what maneuvering speed (or pentration
speed,
or Vgust, or something like that) was.

>>3)  Vne can be determined by any number of things.  Examples:  Flutter
>>(discussed), leading edge collapse, windshield failure.  All are distinctly
>>different.

>Are they really? I would think that apart from flutter, all would be
>dependent on air pressure and thus to IAS (or CAS, or EAS, if you want
>to be precise). If I am mistaken, please explain!

Didn't mean to imply that.  I meant that they are all distinctly
different airspeeds.  There are more than 2 factors determining
Vne, that's all I was trying to say.

Dave Hyde
davehyde@tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
So I said to the Navy, "These are my opinions,
go and get your own."
From: stevem@src4src.linet.org (Steve Millendorf)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: DUAT access from internet
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:18:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Source for Source


Yes, if you have ftp...

I think there are two addresses, one for pilots, one for non-pilots.  I can't remember 
which is which though...

duats.contel.com
duat.contel.com

Good luck,
Steve

P.S.  You can't download maps over the 
internet. 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: pilla@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (michael.a.pilla)
Subject: Re: Taildragger Tail Low Takeoffs
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:02:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.163110.3469@cbnews.cb.att.com> tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.215405.20176@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> pilla@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (michael.a.pilla) writes:
>>	short	brakes, full-power, tail-down and rotate asap, pitch
>>		forward to accellerate in ground-effect until close
>>		to best angle of climb speed, then pitch up to
>>		maintain best angle until clear of obstacle, finally,
>>		pitch forward to best rate of climb, ...  If
>>		flaps are available, then POH, ...
>>
>	Well........   I guess it may depend on runway and aircraft.
>	I suppose a high powered thing like a Pitts or Eagle could do this.
>	I learned in a champ.  If you held the tail down in grass
>	you could taxi all day and not reach flying speed.  

Depends upon the length of the grass.  I have quite a few hours
in 65hp Champs, off grass, and use the soft/short (combined)
technique.  I.e., I treat the grass as a "soft" field and keep
the tail low, but not touching.  I've had no problems getting
off grass using the short/soft technique.  Some grass strips are
well kept, then the Champs works find with tail-down short technique.
Lots of "dandelion drag" and you might not get off the ground at
all in a 65hp Champ. :-)

I fly all winter and treat snow as a soft field and figure that
the increased drag decreases the field length, so I figure that
I am flying a short/soft field TO ...

Mike Pilla

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: dinsdale@berlioz.nsc.com (Steve McRobert)
Subject: Re: Renting in Australia
Summary: Try camden aerodrome
Organization: National Semiconductor Corporation, Santa Clara
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:55:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.165909.15225@Arco.COM> blacker@arco.com (Hal) writes:
>I would like to know if anyone has ever rented a general aviation
>aircraft in Australia?  I am planning a family vacation there in
>about a month.  I've talked with the Australian AOPA about
>regualations etc. What I would like to know if anyone on the net has
>any experience renting and flying in Australia and I am particularly
>intersted in recomendations about where to rent in the Sydney area.
>
>Hal Blacker   
>Blacker@Arco.Com
I went out to camden airfield, about 30-40 mile west of sydney
there are at least two "FBOs" who were very frindly except that
they said that to even do DUAL! I had to go and do dome paperwork with
the 
royal aero club of australia.

So I went and flew with the southern cross gliding club as well who made
me very welcome and let me solo in their K13 after only two check
flights (I did have quite a few hours in K13s already)


-- 
Steve Mc Robert (a.k.a. Dinsdale Piranha) PP ASEL, Glider, Tow Pilot
Organisation: National Semiconductor. Aircraft: DG300 GJ
Want to soar?  Call the Ames soaring club 510 516 1745 at Byron airport
From: ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: radios and non-pilots
Date: 17 Nov 1992 14:33:08 GMT
Organization: BDS Systems
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.bds.com

> I believe that this then works similarly to Ham equipment.  The operator
> does not have to be licensed, but the licensee is responsible for all output
> from that radio.

Well close.  There are two licenses for everything (aviation radios, ham radios,
AM Broadcast stations), one for the physical equipment/location (the station
license) and one for the person using it (operator license).  For VHF aviation
and broadcast stations in the past fifteen years or so the FAA has phased out
the operators permits for VHF aviation and the broadcast stations.  Used to
be that you had to have a Third Class or better radiotelephone operators permit
(with Broadcast Endorsement for broadcast stations), then this was dumped in
favor of the "I swear that I can understand English" Restricted Radiotelephone
operators permit, now none are required.

Still trying to figure out what to do witht his Second Class Radiotelephone
license I got from my college radio days.

-Ron
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: umpistun@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Brent Pistun)
Subject: Pitt's Special
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:11:56 GMT

    I'm thinking about picking up a Pitt's sometime in the not so distant
future (I got bitten by the Aerobatic bug and am currently getting some dual
on a 152 Aerobat).  Anyway's, I'm looking for some specs on the various Pitts
models available and what the difference's are between them.. 

Thanks in advance,

   Kelvin Rempel
 

-- 
Brent E. Pistun                                       Computer Engineering
umpistun@CCU.UManitoba.CA                           University of Manitoba
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: renters@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Martin Renters)
Subject: Videos on aircraft icing?
Organization: Innovus Inc.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:17:57 GMT

Does anyone know of any videos on aricraft icing/deicing which would be
suitable for a ground school course?

Martin Renters				martin@innovus.com
Innovus Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: tks@kestrel.nwc.navy.mil (Tom Serkowski)
Subject: Re: Museums in Los Angeles
Organization: NAWS, China Lake, CA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:55:10 GMT

There's a nice museum on the north side of Santa Monica airport.
From: bmp@pollux.svale.hp.com (Brian M. Perkin)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:19:08 GMT
Subject: Re: license for handheld (was Re: radios and non-pilots)
Organization: Hewlett Packard CPCD, Sunnyvale CA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc

/ pollux:rec.aviation.misc / ludeman@astroatc.uucp (Weekend Pilot) / 10:02 am  Nov 11, 1992 /
# So how does one go about helping a particularly annoying *%$#head
# *get* caught?  This past Summer I experienced persistant problems from a
# couple of different sources.
# 
# 
# What next?  Source 1, if they choose to persist, ought to be very easy to
# localize.  What about source 2?  More to the point, who takes care of these
# things?  

If you are the impacted party, make a formal complaint. If it caused a 
hazard to you, then report it through the normal FAA channels.

If it didn't impact you, having the impacted party make a formal complaint
will be more credible.

The FCC does have some amazing monitoring and location equipment, once 
they have been invoked. Don't expect the offenders to get off with a warning 
though.

Brian
Xref: sparky rec.aviation.misc:704 rec.aviation:17311
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation
Subject: Re: radios and non-pilots
From: tim@qed.cts.com (Tim Capps)
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:10:25 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation.misc
Organization: The QED BBS, Lakewood CA

chem4-aa@garnet.berkeley.edu (Lonnie C. Martin) writes:

> I was told otherwise by phone in a conversation with the local FCC, applied
> for, and received a station license for a handheld transceiver (the ICOM
> aviation type machine).  I was told that the aircraft station license applies
> to _installed_ transceivers only.  Regardless of the other opinions that 
> have appeared, this was my experience.

True.  However, you can license a hand-held (as I did) without having it
tied to a specific plane.  I rent :-( so I don't have a specific plane
that will always serve as the 'station'.

I believe that this then works similarly to Ham equipment.  The operator
does not have to be licensed, but the licensee is responsible for all output
from that radio.  The idea is that it is OK to hand the radio to someone
else so they can chat too, but if they violate FCC regulations (profanity or
whatever), then you are responsible.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Capps     | tim@qed.cts.com  or qed!tim  |  Public access usenet/email: 
QED Software  | The QED BBS (310)420-9327    |  give The QED BBS a call!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: ChrisF@mitre.org (H. Christian Floyd)
Subject: NOTAM Decoding Questions
Keywords: NOTAM, DUAT
Organization: MITRE Corporation
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:26:21 GMT

Following are some NOTAM excerpts from a DUAT briefing.

!BDR 11/057 FIT PTCHY THN IR

!FDC 2/6933 ZBW FI/T /ZBW/ AIRWAYS ZBW.
V489 GFL VORTAC 017 RADIAL/20 DME TO PLB VORTAC RADAR REQUIRED.

I'm not interested in the substance of these but in the protocols for 
encoding/decoding them.  In particular:

How are the identifiers 11/057 and 2/6933 assigned?

Is there any real information to be gleaned from them?

What does "FI/T" indicate? (It seems to appear in all FDC NOTAMs.)

What is the significance of each of the three separate references to the 
Boston Center identifier ZBW?

In general:

Is there an FAA (or other) publication that answers such questions?

Is there an FAA publication where one can look up such things as what IR 
means (ice on runway)?  (It's not the AIM or AC 00-45C.)

Strictly regarding DUAT:

Does the DUAT NOTAM data base (the current data base from which 
"relevant" NOTAMs are extracted for output in a standard DUAT briefing) 
drop NOTAMs when they are published in the Class II NOTAMs?

Does the DUAT NOTAM data base include all NOTAM(L) [local] information?

Thanks in advance to knowledgeable respondents,
Chris Floyd, PP/ASEL
From: mtc@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Mark Cousins)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Visiting Alaska
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:28:31 GMT
Organization: HP General Systems Division

OK.  I didn't feel like spending Thanksgiving by myself sooooo I decided to
go visit my sister.  "What's the big deal?" you say.  The big deal is that
she lives in Anchorage, as in Alaska.

Do you know how long I've fantasized about flying a 185 around Alaska?

Well, I don't have a 185.  So I'm going up there on an MD-80 that belongs to
Alaska Airlines.  But I was hoping that while I'm there I might be able to
ride along with someone and maybe even get some stick time.

I'm arriving in ANC next Wed the 25th and leaving Sunday morning.  I know
that this is short notice but I just decided yesterday to go.

Any pointers that y'all can provide would be much appreciated.

Mark
-- 
Mark Cousins                Hewlett-Packard Co.        mtc@hpsemc.cup.hp.com
HP-UX VAB programs    19055 Pruneridge Ave., MS 46T5
(408) 447-4659             Cupertino, CA  95014          FAX: (408) 447-4364
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: schneidj@eecs.wsu.edu  (John B. Schneider)
Subject: FOR SALE: SONY AIR-8 SCANNER
Reply-To: schneidj@eecs.wsu.edu
Organization: Washington State University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 04:36:59 GMT

                Sony Air-8 Portable Scanner
                
The Air-8 is a four-band receiver that includes the aviation band (108
- 136.975 MHz), the public band (144 - 174 MHz), and AM and FM. Ten
programmable frequencies (in each band), priority and delay, whip
antenna, manual and automatic squelch, LCD display with back lighting.
Earplug and carrying strap included.  Operates on four AA batteries or
6V DC adapter.  Original box and instruction manual.

  List price       = $269.00 (rather meaningless)
  Price I paid     = $203.00 (more meaningful)
+----------------------------------------------+
| Price I'm asking = $150.00 (most meaningful) |
+----------------------------------------------+

Price includes shipping within the US.

John Schneider
schneidj@eecs.wsu.edu
(509) 332-0696 (H)
(509) 335-4655 (W)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: system@gnd1.wtp.gtefsd.com (Marty Anilane)
Subject: Re: DUAT access from internet
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: system@gnd1.wtp.gtefsd.com
Organization: GTE Government Systems, Federal Systems Division, Chantilly, VA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:23:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.191818.4532@src4src.linet.org>, stevem@src4src.linet.org (Steve Millendorf) writes...
> 
>Yes, if you have ftp...
> 

No ftp WILL NOT WORK...You need to use telnet

>I think there are two addresses, one for pilots, one for non-pilots.  I can't remember 
>which is which though...
> 
>duats.contel.com
>duat.contel.com
> 
>Good luck,
>Steve
> 
>P.S.  You can't download maps over the 
>internet. 
Here are some detailed instructions....

GTE CONTEL DUAT service supports non-pilots via the address:

	duats.gtefsd.com    or   131.131.7.106

Certificated pilots should continue using CONTEL DUAT via:
	
	duat.gtefsd.com	    or	 131.131.7.105

If are a certificated pilot and you find the above address busy you 
may use duats.gtefsd.com

For first time users:

To use the service, type the command "telnet duats.gtefsd.com" or
the command "telnet duat.gtefsd.com" at your operating system prompt.
(If that does not work enter the command "telnet 131.131.7.106" or
telnet 131.131.7.105")

You should be connected within seconds and see the prompt...

              GTE Contel DUAT System

Session number: xxxxx


Enter DUAT access code -or- last name:



Enter your last name, answer all prompts and then you should
see the main menu...
	
----------------
 Marty Anilane, GTE Contel Federal Systems, P.O. Box 10814, Chantilly VA. 22021
 Internet: "system@gnd1.wtp.gtefsd.com"    (703) 818-4413
----------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: amazon@sgi.com (Stormwind)
Subject: Re: aerial snooping, revisited
Keywords: lawyer bashing
Organization: X Industries, Heavy Weapons R&D
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:44:05 GMT

(Ulick Stafford) writes:
>(Charles A. Smith) writes:
>>What nonsense!  Another brain-dead lawyer, with a frivolous argument, wasting
>>taxpayer money.  Oh, well.
>
>Go back to Nazi Germany.  It is about time people started fighting the 
>abuse of the 4th ammendment in the name of the war on drugs.  

it sounded like charles had an issue
with the lawyer basing his case on
the statement that the pilot shouldn't
have been flying off of "authorized 
routes".  

>I guess you
>think it is perferctly alright for police to burst into people's houses
>in the hope of finding some drugs so that they can confiscate the property
>without any trial, and shoot the homeowner dead, so they can keep a third
>of the property.  

i have mixed feelings on this, which
i shan't go into elaborate detail on
this forum.  personally, i think the drug
war is wrong and extremely stupid.  
however, i also think that someone who
is engaging in criminal activity who
can't be bothered to completely disguise
their activities is simply begging to 
be caught.  we live in a four dimensional
world, and simply hiding one's activites
from the ground dwellers isn't enough.

but then, so very few people ever look
UP.  this is why i love to snipe from 
high spots when playing paintball...no one
*ever* looks up until they've been tagged.

i've been looking up much more since i 
started flight training last year.  from
observing other people around me when 
aircraft fly overhead, *very* few people
besides myself look up too, and it's usually
either because they're also a pilot, or
else it's a very loud engine.

			stormwind

			hell's amazon
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation
From: rmt@pioneer.net.com (Richard Tweedie)
Subject: Re: radios and non-pilots
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:07:28 GMT

Actually, N (along with W,K and A) are the radio prefixes assigned to
the United States.  Others are F for France, G for Great Britain,
D for Deutchland, C for Canada, X for mexico, etc.

This was done at an international conference in the twenties. Later,
aircraft registration followed the same pattern, but I do not know
how or when this came about--does anyone out there>

Rich Tweedie
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: Subject: Flying Saucers
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:46:06 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

davehyde@tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil writes:
>Dick Harrigill <rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com> writes
>>I'm waiting for a craft that works on the Frisbee principle
>>of flying...

>No, wait.  Isn't the spinning part just for stability?  Lift comes from the
>basic shape and propulsion from your arm.  Or is that what you meant?

The spinning does provides a gyroish type of stability, but it also 
creates an artificial airflow around the disk that generates the lift. 
Watch what happens when you throw a frisbee.  Quite often, the 
horizontal thrust of your throw dissipates long before the spinning 
slows down.  The frisbee then gently floats vertically to the ground;
as the spinning slows, the lift decreases, and the frisbee drops.



-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539    rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com    CDP, PP-ASEL
From: myers@ut-emx.uucp (Eric Myers)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: duat script
Keywords: contel duat, internet access
Date: 19 Nov 92 04:33:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Center for Relativity, University of Texas


  I noticed recently that the internet address for Contel DUAT seems to
have changed.  I've tried the old and new addresses and both seem to
work.  Is GTE going to do away with the duat.contel.com address
eventually?  In any case I have update the duat script with the new
address, and I'm posting it here below.

  This script just connects you to DUAT and saves the result in a file
for later perusal.  Geoff Peck has also written a more intricate script
which will take the info from you and then go ask DUAT for the weather.
Use which ever suits your taste.

Eric Myers	"If God had intended for man to fly 
			He would have given us the brains to build airplanes."
Center for Relativity, Department of Physics, University of Texas at Austin
myers@emx.utexas.edu  |   myers@utaphy.bitnet   |   myers@ut-emx.UUCP
----- CUT HERE ----
#!/bin/csh
#======================================================================*
# duat -- connect to CONTEL DUATS and save session log in a file
#
# 	syntax:  duat <logfile>
#
# If you don't name a log file the session will be copied to the file
# duat.log.  All "--More--" lines will be removed, and CR-LF at the end
# of a line is changed to just LF. 
#
# by Eric Myers (myers@landau.ph.utexas.edu)   4 March 1991
# with suggestions by Barney Lum (barney@sol.usc.edu)
# $Revision: 1.8 $  :  $Date: 92/11/18 22:10:42 $  :  $Author: myers $
#======================================================================*
# Parameters:
set DUATHOST="duat.gtefsd.com"  	# for pilots only
#set DUATHOST="duats.gtefsd.com"  	# "s" includes student pilots
set LOG=duat.log			# default log file name
set TMP=/tmp/duat.$$			# tmp file for cleaning log
#----------
if ( $#argv > 0 ) then
  set LOG=$1
endif
# If you have trouble with the date command below just remove or modify.
# It's not that important now that Contel put a similar date stamp in
# their session.
echo " "
echo "NOTE: Current Zulu Time:  " `date -u "+%T"`
echo " "
echo telnet ${DUATHOST} ...
# telnet to the host and save a copy of sesion in TMP file
telnet ${DUATHOST} | tee ${TMP}
#
# When done, get rid of "--More--" at begining of a line and ^M at end 
#
grep -v "^--More--"  ${TMP} | tr -d "\015"  > $LOG
# get rid of the TMP log file
rm ${TMP}
echo "DUAT session saved in the file $LOG"
exit 0

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: barford@hpllab.hpl.hp.com (Lee Alton Barford)
Subject: Re: Videos on aircraft icing?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:52:39 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA

In article <1992Nov23.041757.3505@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca>
renters@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Martin Renters) writes:

   Does anyone know of any videos on aricraft icing/deicing which would be
   suitable for a ground school course?

The AOPA Air Safety Foundation and Jeppesen produced a tape called "Aircraft Icing"
that is *excellent*.  It's available directly from AOPA and Jeppesen
and from many pilot shops and mail order houses.

It covers both airframe and induction icing.  It has footage of
airframe icing building up that's the best I've ever seen.  It was
shot in Goodyear's icing tunnel.  There's also a fair amount of
footage of real airplanes with real ice. It's also got demonstrations of how to
clean off an icy airplane before flight.

The pacing is snappy, but not so fast that students miss the important points.

It's about 40 minutes long.

The only thing I don't like about it is the music, which is the "happy
corporate robot" music that Jeppesen uses on all of its videos.

--Lee
--
===============
Lee Barford, PhD, CFII, CAP MP&CP, and other silly acronyms
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bldg. 26U, POB 10350, Palo Alto, CA 94303-0867
Digital: barford@hpllab.hpl.hp.com           In the air: N235H
Analog:  Twisted pair: (415) 857-3606        Ether: N6UDE or Eagle 618 (CAP)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: dworden@cwis.unomaha.edu (David Paul Worden)
Subject: ATC TEST
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:03:09 GMT


Has anyone taken the FAA ATC test?  I am interested in becoming an ATC,
and I am curious as to some personal observations of the test.  I have
not taken it yet, but I am in the process of getting some manuals to 
tell me what the test is about and some of the questions asked.  Any personal
stories you would like to convey can either be posted or e-mailed to me at
dworden@cwis.unomaha.edu.  Thanks for any help and advice in advance.
 

David
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David P. Worden                                        dworden@cwis.unomaha.edu

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc