From: alan@km4ba.uucp (Alan Barrow)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner Boats
Date: 28 Aug 92 06:42:56 GMT
Organization: km4ba's packet radio gateway

In <1992Aug25.211210.17191@mdd.comm.mot.com> zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Zintel) writes:

>[ elitist self-congratulations re Maverick boat ownership deleted ]

>>So, it depends on what you are willing to live with. 

>Actually, it depends on what you can afford.

Elitist? I won't bother to debate this. 

Is a maverick (or other quality boat) a rich toy? Get real!

It is more like professional vs cheap tools. Form follow function, and
specific construction has a heavy impact on how well they work.

I looked at many boats in the class I was interested in, and went to 
the manufacturer's to see what they look like inside.

My main interest is inshore fishing, and I fished on several boats designed
for this, and saw a clear preference from the guides who do it for a living.

I could not afford a new maverick, but knew from what I saw that a 
used maverick would be a safe bet. I had to be patient, and ended up
buying one from the next state. 

I made the decision to buy a quality used boat that was rigged better than
I would have been able to afford new. So far I think my decision was a smart
investmant. It would have been much easier to buy a "chopped special" that
the local marina's sell. But seeing last years boats being closed out with
weathered vinyl cured me of that.

Am I proud of my boat? Of course! Is it elitism? I hope not. If it was 
I would not be trying to introduce everyone I can convince to go to 
flats fishing. It is a blast! Most who go are hooked for good.

My comments on S Fla attitude toward Bayliners deleted.

>Being avoided would reason enough to own a Bayliner.

In the land of 18" flats with narrow windy "stake channels", sloppy
seamanship is dangerous to others, and usually to the sloppy sailor.

Most Bayliner dealers in S Fla are the newest ones, or ones who have
lost other lines. They have a poor reputation as dealers, and based
on observation do not do much to encourage "power squadron" type training,
or even basic USCG requirements.

It does keep the towboat operators in business, and they have a distinct
opinion.

>Bayliners are cheap boats that many folks can afford and enjoy. They 
>depreciate fairly quickly and they need attention to trim, fasteners,
>controls etc. They don't fall apart and sink. Bayliner owners are a 
>large group and probably have no distinguishing characteristics other than
>they enjoy boating.

No argument... I might would even buy one for freshwater use if the price
was right. The problem is that the price long term is usually not right
with a Bayliner. Most 1st time buyers are not aware of the problems, or
even what to look for. 

Bayliners are not the only boat with problems. Most metalflake bass boats 
are very sloppy, and based on Ga lake experience have little or no idea 
about seamanship. (I do not mean how to splice a rope. I mean right of 
way, safety devices, etc)

I see $20k bass boats rigged with the cables running through rough holes cut
with a hole saw. No gasket, no trim. Ugly, and it will cause an electrical
problem, and maybe a steering problem. (Rangers and Ebbtide Dynatrack.)

Add no rod storage, hatches that leak in rain, etc to the picture and you
see that they are not particularly well suited to their intended market.

We are starting to see a shift toward center console fishing boats on lakes
from the metalflake bass buggy because of this. (from the land where the
bass o matic rig originated!)

There is not excuse for accepting shoddy workmanship, much less paying more
for it only because you are too lazy or uninformed to see what is available
from other than the local dealers. 

If a person asks for information regarding a boat, I think it is only
fair to make them aware of problems and issue. (And yes attitudes, as it
affects how you enjoy your sport.)

Sorry if it sounded elitist, that was not the intent. I would (and did) take
canoes and john boats flats fishing before I had my boat. I even waded out and
perched on a step ladder. That is how much I like my sport, and I will pick
the best boat I can afford to do my sport. At that point I envied anyone
who owned a boat. (anything bigger than a canoe)

Hope this helps!


 Alan Barrow  km4ba | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack
 jab@               | ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched
 hpuerca.atl.hp.com | C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
 ..!gatech!kd4nc!   | All those moments will be lost in time -
         km4ba!alan | like tears in rain. Time to die.          Roy Batty
From: ben@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Benjamin Ellsworth)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:02:17 GMT
Subject: Re: Ideal Solo Explorer?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA