HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cheu@saturn.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Subject: Re: Looking for best prices on tents, bags, stoves, etc.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Reply-To: cheu@saturn.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 1 Jan 93 02:13:10 GMT


I just discovered a North Face Factory Outlet at Berkeley, CA,
located at Gilman (off-ramp from I-80) and 5th St.  All the
North Face items are sold at a discount price of about 40%.
Some of the items are exactly NF product but under the label/
brand called Windy Pass.  I bought a Show Leopard for $169 + tax.
It is a different color from the navy blue and yellow, and w/o
the extension caudra cloth at the top of the pack, but I saved
at least $90. You can get a Gore-Tax rain top for $99.  I asked
one of the guys working in the store and yes, they do mail
order, but they don't have a 1-800 number and catalog. I can
go and find out the phone # if you are interested.

Kelvin
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jeffk@dosXX.med.utah.edu (Jeff Knell)
Subject: Re: Slot canyon hiking
Organization: Department of Genetics, University of Utah
Date: 22 Dec 92 10:48:33


   Some brief advice:

   1. don't go in the summer unless you enjoy very hot sunny days.

   2. find a book written by Kelsey that describes canyons and indian
      ruins in S Utah.

   ....

=====================================

I highly recommend *against* any book by Kelsey.
His books are full of misinformation, resulting
in most cases from minimal experience in the areas
he covers.  

I know little about his mountain books, but in the
desert SW he is widely despised as a hike-bagger,
who pumps people for information, does a hike one
time, and then writes about it.

I've even spoken to rangers that hate this guy.

If you are inexperienced at desert canyon hiking
and you are relying on a Kelsey book, be prepared
for trouble.


jeff

feitctaj


From: Carl.Seiler@f10.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Carl Seiler)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: GPS, PC or non-PC?
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 10:25:52 -0500

In a msg on <Dec 21 15:01>, Anmar Caves writes:

>>>inter- related the use of GPS for backcountry orienting and 
>>>military use for counterinsurgency operations were ... it's the 
>>>same stuff, except that the military applications have access 
>>>to more refined locating abilities.  
>>Can you name a single navigation system that was not developed 
by
>>the military for military purposes or which does not have 
profound
>>military applications? Loran? Omega? Transit? GPS? Celestial? 
Deca
>>is arguable. What about other things  you  use in  the 
backcountry?
>>Backpacks? Gore Tex? Freeze-dried food? How much are you ready 
to
>>give up to assuage your politically correct conscience?

 AC> Much as I hate to agree with the above, it's true, most of the 
 AC> fun toys we carry into the woods are a direct result the 
 AC> military. When I was taking my inservice on GPS, the guy who 
 AC> was teaching stressed the fact that GPS was primarily a 
 AC> military toy.

Could someone please explain to a newbie exactly what GPS stands for?

BTW, thanks to all who gave me information on sleeping bags.  Cross our
fingers and I may get one for Christmas.

Carl
st1t0@jetson.uh.edu


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: brant@seq.uncwil.edu (AT-Dreamer)
Subject: Re: GPS, PC or non-PC?
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:41:16 GMT

Carl.Seiler@f10.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Carl Seiler) writes:

>In a msg on <Dec 21 15:01>, Anmar Caves writes:

 >Loran? Omega? Transit? GPS? Celestial? Deca is arguable.
 >What about other things  you  use in  the backcountry?

You may go to the woods with this crap but I prefer a compass
and my brain. (a map also helps)

>>>Backpacks? Gore Tex? Freeze-dried food? How much are you ready 
>to

I would suggest freeze-dried food is no the most part lousy
(even thou i carry one for emer. or extending a trip).

Gore Tex to me is over rated.

Backpacks, nay I don't think so, atleast no the back pack I carry
mine is comfortable, big and not filled with instruments of
destruction.

-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "What doesn't kill us makes us stronger"  Spoken by many A.T. hikers         |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bglenden@colobus.cv.nrao.edu (Brian Glendenning)
Subject: Re: Winter Boots
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 16:34:42 GMT


Boots like these were used for (at least) snowmobiling in Canada when
I was a kid. They were great unless the felt got wet.

Brian
--
       Brian Glendenning - National Radio Astronomy Observatory
bglenden@nrao.edu          Charlottesville Va.           (804) 296-0286
From: mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Marc Gabriel)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Lyme Disease E-mail Network...
Date: 22 Dec 92 03:55:18 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Dec21.135601.27195@dxcern.cern.ch>, myersdr@epcinext3.cern.ch (D
avid Myers) writes:
>know if information is available about the (European) areas in which the vector
>is endemic. Is the tick sensitive to temperature, less likely to be encountered
>above a certain altitude, at a certain time of year, etc? Also, what are the
>initial symptoms?

Well,
  In the US, the majority of LD patients get bitten during the summer months,
although cases are reported all year.  On the European continent, I belive the
Ixodes ricinus is the tick responsible.  Below is a copy of a graph I have
infront of me that attempts to illustrate the relative "risk periods" for
contracting LD for Ixodes bites in most parts of the US and Europe:

                          ********
                       ***        *******
                    ***                  *****
                ****                         ******
            ****                                  *****
**      ****                                           *****
  ******

 DEC    FEB    APR     JUN      AUG     OCT       DEC


 What this graph attempts to point out is that the risk grows very rapidly
 from April to June, plateau's all summer, then slowly decreases until
 January, when the risk is lowest.
 Temperature does not seem to be a direct factor, although it must certainly
 be correleted with their habitat.

 As for the symptoms, look for this:

 * 60% of patients get a red, circular rash that appears to be spreading
 inside out.
 * Along with that, patient may develop headaches, feavers, fatigue,
 stiffness, slight muscle or joint pains, and occasionally swelling.

 Lyme is typically treatable at this phase.  If not...

 * Untreated patient can expect neurological complications, ranging from "pins
 and needles" feeling in extremities to periodic facial paralysis and
 difficulty concentrating.
 * So called "Lyme arthritis" (not a very good name, but it will do) develops
 in most untreated patients.  It rarely becomes an problem instantly.  Rather,
 it may originate from migratory pains that seem to attack many different
 joints.  Eventually, the knee is the joint that is most in pain.
 * Rarely, the heart is involved.  LD can cause hearbeat irregularities that
 have been linked to a few deaths (not many).

 Hope this helps.

 -Marc.

-- 
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
             Marc C. Gabriel '93    -  U.C. Box 545  -
               (215) 882-0138        Lehigh University
              mcg2@Lehigh.EDU       Bethlehem, PA 18015
                Compu$erve: >internet:mcg2@Lehigh.edu
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 I'm still thinking about the witty one-liner I'm supposed to put here.
From: Carl.Seiler@f10.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Carl Seiler)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Nice low-traffic hike in Central Colorado, San Isabel range.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 13:08:11 -0500

In a msg on <Dec 28 00:27>, jamiller writes:

 j> If anyone is looking for nice sites for spring in Colorado, look 
 j> into to the San Isabel range in central Colorado.  There's a 
 j> small town called Westcliffe on the east side of the range 
 j> that has supplies if you ever get desperate but other than 
 j> that it's free of tourists and a really nice hike with about 5 
 j> peaks all over 12,xxx ft.  There's plenty of small lakes and 
 j> rivers and some nice places to climb, although I didn't see 
 j> anyone climbing nor did I.
 j> Has anyone else been there?  I really like the area and have been
 j> there twice.

I was up there last May and hiked up to Venable Falls.  We tried to make
it to Venable lakes, but the snow was too deep a the top and we couldn't
find the trail.

Carl
 


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson)
Subject: Recommendations wanted: day hikes at Big Bend NP, Texas
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Distribution: na 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:18:01 GMT


My turn to ask for some hiking advice: we'll be attending a mini-family reunion
at Big Bend National Park between Christmas and New Years and are looking for
suggestions on what to do.  The circumstances of the trip don't allow us to do
anything on the river, so we're looking for day hikes of up to 10 miles (we'll
be traveling with 8- and 5-year-olds, but the 5-year-old is *tough*...) with
trailheads reachable via passenger car from the park HQ.  We're plenty
experienced dry-country hikers, even the kids, and can handle ourselves in 
rough country.  Any suggestions other than what's in the standard tourist
blurbs?  Thanks in advance ...

-- 
Bill Johnson				| My suggestion for an Official
Los Alamos National Laboratory		| Usenet Motto: "If you have nothing
Los Alamos, New Mexico USA		| to say, then come on in, this is the
!cmcl2!lanl!mwj (mwj@lanl.gov)		| place for you, tell us all about it!"
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Subject: Re: GPS, PC or non-PC?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:01:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.233552.11214@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
>In article <1992Dec18.222018.700@guinness.idbsu.edu> jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu writes:
>>Until this article it had never clearly occured to me how inter-
>>related the use of GPS for backcountry orienting and military
>>use for counterinsurgency operations were ... it's the same stuff,
>>except that the military applications have access to more refined
>>locating abilities.  
>
>Can you name a single navigation system that was not developed by
>the military for military purposes or which does not have profound
>military applications? Loran? Omega? Transit? GPS? Celestial? Deca
>is arguable. What about other things  you  use in  the backcountry?
>Backpacks? Gore Tex? Freeze-dried food? How much are you ready to
>give up to assuage your politically correct conscience?

Much as I hate to agree with the above, it's true, most of the fun
toys we carry into the woods are a direct result the military.
When I was taking my inservice on GPS, the guy who was teaching
stressed the fact that GPS was primarily a military toy.

-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Chief of Tranquility  #My Opinions! NotIU's!#Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Base, Lawrence Co. IN # Legalize Explosives!#nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # Somewhere out on the  # Politicians prefer  #family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over# unarmed peasants.   #Space For Rent
From: pgf@cayman.com (Paul Fox)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: new synthetic sleeping bag fills?
Date: 28 Dec 92 20:18:30 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

hi -- i've just noticed a new (maybe) synthetic sleeping bag
filler, called Thinsulate Loft, or something like that.  The Performance
catalog (the bicycle place) has a couple of bags that use it, and the
price seems okay.  But I've never heard of any sort of Thinsulate in a
sleeping bag.

Does anyone know anything about this stuff?

What's the latest/best synthetic insulator?


--
		paul fox, pgf@cayman.com, (617)494-1999
		Cayman Systems, Inc., 26 Landsdowne St., Cambridge, MA 02139
From: augy@toz.buffalo.ny.us (August West)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Winter Boots
Date: 26 Dec 92 04:15:00 GMT
Organization: The Tower of Zot - (716)8338-616

au143@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mikael Niku) writes:
>         In Finland, we have these winter rubber boots with
> extra warm soles and thick removable felt shoe inside. A little
> bit heavy, perhaps, but keep your feet warm - and dry, in all
> weathers. Easy to get dry, as you can pull the felt shoe out of the 
> boot. Durable. And can be used as ski boots. 

        In response to your question: Yes I remember, when I was a boy, 
my friend Peteri had these diffent boots that none of the other kids had. 
He is in Finland now for Christmas. I still have not figure out why any 
american outfitters have not imported these boots?
Jeff Ehlinger.

==========================================================================
** Mail to: Augy@toz.buffalo.ny.us        <<<Tower of Zot>>> Bflo, NY   **
** The bus came by and I got on, that's when it all began!              **
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jeffk@dosXX.med.utah.edu (Jeff Knell)
Subject: Re: XC SKI bindings -  recommendations wanted
Organization: Department of Genetics, University of Utah
Distribution: rec.backcountry
Date: 21 Dec 92 10:54:07

Jacques Vaisey writes:

   I am about to purchase a new set of XC skis and I was wondering if someone
   could give me some advise on bindings. In the past I have used "nordic
   norm" (3 point) bindings on regualr touring skis; however, I would like to
   get into some (novice) backcountry skiing and I want bindings that give a more
   control (I'm also planning to get skis with metal edges).

=======================================================

Check out the Voile three-pin with detachable cable.
Or if you desire even more lateral stability, try
a Voile plate with the three-pin of our choice.

I'm not sold on the full cable systems, but I know
many BC skiers that are.  IMHO, they are heavier
than necessary and do not provide the lateral
stability of the Voile plate.


jeff

feitctaj
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: GPS, PC or non-PC?
Date: 28 Dec 1992 16:38:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


  Well, to ask a rhetorical question.... Is GPS arcane enough
to allow a latter-day Dan'l Boone to say:
  "I never was lost but I was a mought bewildered fer several
days".

  What sort of yahoo wants to take one of those demon boxes
out to the boonies (unless it's WORK related) anyway???
  Aargh!!
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.travel
From: cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne)
Subject: Re: holiday travel around Ohio
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:20:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.183017.22538@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> lpanton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lauren C Panton) writes:

>     My boyfriend has offered to take me on a three day trip for my birthday
>starting January 1 1993. I would like any suggestions of a fun and interesting
>place(s) to go that is within a 8 hour or so distance for Columbus, Ohio. I
>would appreciate any replies.

Not knowing what you consider fun and interesting makes it difficult to 
respond.  We don't have the grand canyon, Pike's peak or Disneyland but
there are a number of things, depending on what interests you.  The Air Force
Museum is only an hour away (just outside Dayton at Wright Patterson AFB) and
there are a couple of transplanted castles over that way too (MacAchee and MacAchay--sp?).  There's a lot of New England Architecture near Cleveland (the
Western Reserve) and speaking of which there are good museums in the
Western Reserve campus area.  I think the state still has an 800 number
(maybe 1-800-Travel--but try 1-800 info for sure).  Just outside Detroit
the Ford Museum and Greenwich could easily take a couple of days.  It's probably not the time of year for Old Man's Cave.  Well lot's of luck.

Charlie
From: alley@argon.berkeley.edu (Rod Alley)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Which pack: Gregory or Mountainsmith?
Date: 31 Dec 1992 00:14:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: argon.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec30.212058.1142@ncar.ucar.edu> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
>In article <C036Hp.6Ko@world.std.com>, ari@world.std.com (Ari I Halberstadt) writes:
>> In article <C00CIs.Hp7@chinet.chi.il.us> eberg@chinet.chi.il.us (Erik Arthur Berg) writes:
>> >   I'm trying to decide which pack to buy; a Mountainsmith Elite 5000
>> >or a Gregory Nova.  
>> 
>> A few months ago I was looking at packs. Many people said the
>> Mountainsmith tended to fall apart. I've only heard good things about
>> Gregory. 
>
>Well, I have never heard that the Mountainsmith falls apart, and I
>have one, and haven't had problems with it (although I just got it
>in early November).  It has lots of good features, a few more straps
>and loops than I can think what to do with, and (the reason I got it)
>infinite adjustability, allowing me to find a perfectly comfortable
>arrangement.  Honestly, it's the first pack I ever had that doesn't
>hurt my back or shoulders one bit.  I imagine, though, that once you
>get into the stratospheric realm of prices (which both Mountainsmith
>and Gregory inhabit) all packs are quite comfy.
>
   I have a Mountainsmith Bugaboo (2350 cubic inch panel-loading pack)
purchased in 1988.  I too have been pleased with the features and adjust-
ability, but a little disappointed at how it's held up.  To be fair, I've
had it for four years, 1.5 of which it saw frequent (most weekends) use as
a dayhike/weekend/summit pack, and in the most recent 2.5 years it's
been used almost daily as an (oversized) "book bag"/cycle commute pack
while I've been going to grad school.  During the latter period, it has
sometimes held some impressive loads of books.  I've had failure at 
several points at the seams in the harness, the pack proper, and the
connecting points between them.  It's mostly not the sewing that fails:
instead the fabric pulls out of the seam because it wasn't cut with a 
hot knife to melt the fabric edges.  I melted the exposed edges and 
sewed up things this past summer, but failure has since occurred in new
places, and eventually (and with reluctance, because I've otherwise liked
the Bugaboo) I'll have to get a new pack.  I used the word "disappointed"
previously because I'd thought hot-knifing was common practice, other-
wise I'd acknowledge the failures were to be expected given the usage.
I'd certainly suggest that if you're wanting a pack that will last,
you look at details like this (hard to do, I know, when most fabric
edges are hidden).  This brings up two questions for the net: 

    (1) how common is the use of a hot knife to melt cut fabric edges?
    (2) what pack manufacturers do or don't do this?

Rod Alley
alley@argon.berkeley.edu
From: jganson@stein.u.washington.edu (Jeffrey Ganson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Winter Boots
Date: 28 Dec 1992 06:38:27 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

In article <725404756.AA07820@urchin.fidonet.org> Carl.Seiler@f10.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Carl Seiler) writes:
>In a msg on <Dec 25 20:54>, Mikael Niku writes:
>
> MN>         There has been some discussion about winter boots.
> MN> I'd like to ask (again !) if the concept of RUBBER BOOT is 
> MN> totally unknown to Americans, etc. !
> MN>  
> MN>         In Finland, we have these winter rubber boots with
> MN> extra warm soles and thick removable felt shoe inside. A little
> MN> bit heavy, perhaps, but keep your feet warm - and dry, in all
> MN> weathers. Easy to get dry, as you can pull the felt shoe out of 
> MN> the boot. Durable. And can be used as ski boots. 
>
>Sounds like what I call a snowmobile boot.  I wear a rubber boot like
>that before and after skiing.  They fit your description exactly, except
>you can't use them as ski boots.  Most ski boots I've seen are
>hard-shelled with clips for the skis.  These aren't like that at all,
>but do have the rubber outsides with the removable wool-felt insides as
>you describe.
>
>Carl
> 
>
>
From: Dan Yurman <dyurman@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:04 PST
Subject: Re: Maps in Binary form?  FTP sites for
Nf-ID: #R:1992Dec28.002128.45924@kuhub.cc.:-1420791213:cdp:1449600057:000:340
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dyurman    Dec 30 22:04:00 1992


A good place to post this query would be the Usenet list 
comp.infosystems.gis.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Yurman            | dyurman@igc.apc.org | Chance favors only
PO Box 1569           | MCI Mail: 364-1277  | the prepared mind.
Idaho Falls, ID 83403 | 43N28 112W02 -7 GMT | -- Louis Pasteur
From: MB#5@lafibm.lafayette.edu (MB#5000)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: HOLLOW POINTS in the backcountry
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:34:34 GMT
Organization: Lafayette College
Originator: news@lafcol


Actually the idea is already in action in the Poconos of Pa., it's
called Skirmish.  You use paintball guns, Camo jumpsuits and run
around in the woods and blast each other.  Not my idea of a good time
but...
In article <1h5cj1INN7e3@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
>
>
>>I've always thought hunters themselves would be the best type of
>>animal to hunt.  What could be more exhilerating knowing that
>>the animal you are hunting may shoot back!  Some park or island
>>should be setup somewhere hunters could legally hunt each other
>>(wasn't there a short story similar to this? "The Most Dangerous Game"
>>or something like that).
>
>Actually, someone has been doing this in Eastern Ohio for the last few years.
>An assassin is murdering loan hunters in the backwoods, by sniping from cover.
>The innocent hunters end up dead, and their families end up without them.
>Not all that exhilirating.
>.
>.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jagrant@emr1.emr.ca (John Grant)
Subject: Re: Winter Boots
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:00:57 GMT

In article <PBgDwB6w165w@toz.buffalo.ny.us> augy@toz.buffalo.ny.us (August West) writes:
>au143@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mikael Niku) writes:
>>         In Finland, we have these winter rubber boots with
>> extra warm soles and thick removable felt shoe inside. A little
>> bit heavy, perhaps, but keep your feet warm - and dry, in all
>> weathers. Easy to get dry, as you can pull the felt shoe out of the 
>> boot. Durable. And can be used as ski boots. 
>
>        In response to your question: Yes I remember, when I was a boy, 
>my friend Peteri had these diffent boots that none of the other kids had. 
>He is in Finland now for Christmas. I still have not figure out why any 
>american outfitters have not imported these boots?
>Jeff Ehlinger.

	You are describing Kaufmann Sorels (and their imitators).  They
	are made in Canada and should be available anywhere in n. america.
	Wonderful boots - heavy, but warm and dry.
-- 
John A. Grant						jagrant@emr1.emr.ca
Airborne Geophysics
Geological Survey of Canada, Ottawa
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry