HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steve@celia.UUCP (Steve Tyree)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.activism
Subject: Reason before Truth (was Re: Libertarians)
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:08:48 GMT
Reply-To: celia!steve@usc.edu (Steve Tyree)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rhythm & Hues, Inc., Hollywood

(Phill Hallam-Baker) writes:

>Given that I have imense difficulty beleiving anything Castro says I don't
>actualy accept the original quote as necessarily true. For some reasons Steve
>beleives Castro does he always do this, if so there is yet another point of
>similarity between Free Market Libs and Trotts.

 Let me clarify my position. After many years of listening to politicians
promises, (Bush no new taxes, Clintons campaign promises, etc), I have come
to the conclusion that the actual underlining motives or truth behind any
elitists speech intended for the populace, can not usually be defined by
the sentences used. This hopefully is common knowledge to most everyone by now.
One needs to constantly ask, why mention or even use the terms used within
each particular sentence (ie - the hidden agenda). Why would Bush promise no
new taxes?, he wanted to pretend to be holding the reagan torch. Why did
Clinton over promise?, it has fueled a growth in the demand for 'dole' pay-
outs. So the reason or motive behind every statist sentence can be more en-
lightening than just understanding the sentence as conveyed by the speaker.

 This brings us back to Castro's speech. The truth behind his statement that
lazy workers are hurting the socialist state, is not as important as the
reason he used to even mention this to the populace in his statist speech.
What was his reason or motive or hidden agenda ? Was he trying to lie about
lazy workers to increase productivity or was he using the lazy worker bash-
ing as a motivational tool for the mainstream public ? If the first reason
is correct ? Why will the people buy it when no 'lazy' people exist.

 Steve Tyree - These opinions are mine and mine alone.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: dpollard@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dennis B Pollard)
Subject: Re: NO! President Bill, 72% of Americans are NOT lawyers!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:22:46 GMT

In article <9038@news.duke.edu> eyc@acpub.duke.edu (EMIL CHUCK) writes:
>dpollard@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dennis B Pollard) writes:
><ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) writes:
><>thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank):
>
><I fail to understand the situation where because a qualified minority gets a
><position some must assume that (1) a quota system is in place, and (2) some
><more deserving white male should have gotten the position.  Interesting that
I
><have had this pointed out to me by an acquaintance of mine, who finds problem
s
><with quotas both not with hiring "friends of friends."
>
>Answer regarding probably why Asian-heritage people aren't more
>represented: Asians do not constitute a politically correct minority.
>They are also the most diverse ethnic group in itself. Koreans !=
>Japanese != Indians != Malaysians != Arabs != Pakistanis ... etc.
>Many of the southeast cultures in particular (I am not so well learned
>in Indian or Mongolian culture) also pride themselves on family, self-reliance
>and hard work.  Having one Asian on the Cabinet hardly represents the
>multitude of cultures in Asia.
>--

This answer still doesn't explain what I have reprinted above.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Subject: Re: Judiciary Committee, Please Get a clue!
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1jp4dfINNi7b@transfer.stratus.com>
	<ATAYLOR.93Jan24152856@gauss.nmsu.edu>
	<93026.161952MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:57:16 GMT

<In article <93026.161952MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> Mark 'Mark' Sachs <MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
<   In article <ATAYLOR.93Jan24152856@gauss.nmsu.edu>, ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) says:
<   ><In article <1jp4dfINNi7b@transfer.stratus.com> (Jim Mann) writes:
<   ><   I do think, that for the postion of Attorney General, the negative
<   ><   (unfortunately) did outweigh the positive.  It's a shame, though.
<   ><   I wish she hadn't done what she had, as she seemed like she'd
<   >,   have done a good job.

<   >        Sure, felons often are good at being cops, right?

<   Naw. Ed Meese, for example, was terrible.

	What felony did Meese confess to, please?
	What felony was Meese convicted of, please?

	None?

	Hmmmm.....
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:69657 alt.pagan:15812 talk.religion.misc:27501 talk.abortion:57833
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Freedom of Religion
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:50:13 GMT
Reply-To: boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <2B63263F.9583@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu
(Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

> P.S.: I actually got up the courage to read the _Malleus Maleficarum_
> straight through -- not just excepts, the whole damned thing.

Talk about getting a HEADACHE!  What a frightening thought!

>                                                                I heartily
> encourage anyone who doubts the truth and the real evil behind the
> Burning Times to read it.  My jaw actually dropped when I read some
> stuff.  You know how the male pronoun is usually used to denote gender-
> neutral stuff?  Well, they use "she" EXCLUSIVELY to talk about evil and
> wicked people -- EXCLUSIVELY.  They talk about how men can be witches
> and stuff, but then talk only of evil "she's" and "her's".  They target
> women specifically and systematically, for anyone who doubts the
> misogyny of the early church.

Just two nits, Janis - first, were you reading the Latin, or an English
translation?  This could be an artifact of the translation - although a
good, honest translation would preserve the gender if the original Latin.
I wouldn't be too surprised to find the feminine form used in the Latin,
though.

Second, this isn't the early church you're talking about, it's some
1,500 years later (I forget - was it 15th or 16th century?).  At that
point, the Church had achieved nearly complete hegemony in the spiritual
realm over most of what passed for Western civilization at the time.

Of course, this doesn't imply that the early Christian church didn't
quickly become misogynist - just go back and read Paul or the "Desert
Fathers".

				- - Steve



--
Don't miss the 49th New England Folk Festival,
April 23-25, 1993 in Natick, Massachusetts!
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:70239 ca.politics:10711
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Starting Trouble
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:32:48 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


The violent fantasies that keep appearing in soc.motss (like the
one below) are really worrisome.  Doesn't anyone get worried about
this sort of emotional instability?  You would think that being
on the receiving end of random violence would make homosexuals
LESS supportive of it, instead of more:

In article <74130@cup.portal.com>, elc@cup.portal.com (Edward L Cole) writes:
> I don't know if I *really* advocate violence but its great fuel
> for fantasy. I relish the idea of gathering group of angry queers
> together for an evening of random str8 bashing. I think the work 
> of Queer Nation is a God-send. I adhere to this philosophy:
> If you can't them, Hassle them!.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:69137 misc.legal:23091
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
Subject: Re: A 4th branch of government?
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:45:14 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1993Jan20.062643.5142@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
> In article <d2UG02ww32FI01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll) writes:
> >"The Congress shall have power . . . To make all laws which shall be 
> >necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and 
> >all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the 
> >United States, or in any department or officer thereof."  U.S. Const. Article 
> >I, Sec. 8.
> 
> Which everyone (to the best of my knowledge) agrees is _not_ a blank check
> to violate other constitutional provisions. The accepted interpertation
> is that "necessary and proper" means within the limits established be
> the rest of the constitution. (Can Congress violate the First Amedment
> if it think's that is "necessary and proper", or alter the President's
> term of office?)
> 
>                                                     Frank Crary

In fact, the problem is that many people are convinced that the
"necessary and proper" clause IS a blank check.  See Hamilton's 
Federalist 29, where he makes it clear that people who think of
this clause as some sort of blank check are crazy.  He argues
that while this includes reasonable actions that are truly necessary
and proper, this doesn't mean that the Federal Government's
authority is unlimited, as modern liberals seem to feel:

 It would be as absurd to doubt,
 that a right to pass all laws NECESSARY AND PROPER to execute its
 declared powers, would include that of requiring the assistance of
 the citizens to the officers who may be intrusted with the execution
 of those laws, as it would be to believe, that a right to enact laws
 necessary and proper for the imposition and collection of taxes
 would involve that of varying the rules of descent and of the
 alienation of landed property, or of abolishing the trial by jury in
 cases relating to it.

Of course, the crazies won, and now control the courts.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton
From: matjmm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (J. Morgan Morris)
Subject: Re: DAY THREE: Either a lie or utter stupidity
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:03:42 GMT

ck347@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard A. Mulac) writes:


>ck347@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard A. Mulac) writes:
>>>I have yet to hear a Clinton 'Mr. Rhodes Scholarship' supporter explain
>>>how President Genius came up with the notion that illegal aliens
>>>usually make sure they get Social Security numbers and pay their SS taxes
>>>when they work illegally.
> 
>In a previous article, matjmm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (J. Morgan Morris) says:
>>No excuses. He took full responsibility for any errors in the search process,
>>and I'm glad that he did. And I believe he is indeed seeking ethical people
>>for the Cabinet, in order to avoid the Reagan administration's problems with
>>keeping people out of jail...

>You people (Oops! Perot got in trouble for using that phrase) just don't
>get it!  Who cares if he takes responsibility.  Defend how he can say that
>'I knew that Zoe Baird employed illegal aliens, but I didn't know that she
>didn't pay their Social Security taxes'.  How can he come up with the idiotic
>assumption that illegal aliens will take on illegal employment, yet they
>will follow the law by getting a Social Security number and pay their SS taxes.
>He's trying to cover his butt because HE KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT THE ILLEGAL
>ALIEN SITUATION before the hearings, but now he's trying to claim ignorance
>with this stupid excuse that he only knew about half the situation.  He's
>either a liar or an idiot - take off your rose colored glasses and admit it,
>people!

I would defend him, or criticize him, if I thought it necessary, but he has 
already eliminated that possibility by taking responsibility for his actions.
Perhaps he knew everything, and underestimated the ramifications. Or perhaps
he was too busy trying to get everything else in order that it slipped
on his "things-to-do" list. I don't know, and it doesn't matter since he already
took responsibility for his actions. It's nice to see responsibility for a change,
since we didn't see much of that over the past twelve years.

BTW, my glasses are quite clear, thank you. I have certainly criticized Mr.
Clinton before, particularly in 1980, the year that he lost the election for
governor in Arkansas. Since then, he has certainly impressed me with his knowledge
and abilities to get things done. He is no idiot. 

Later,
Morgan



-- 

John Morgan Morris
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
Georgia State University
University Plaza
Atlanta, GA. 30303-3083

Internet: matjmm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu
Telephone: (404) 651-2253
FAX: (404) 651-2246

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.president.clinton
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.medicine,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Statement of President Clinton on Health Care Reform Task Force
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:08:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: cos.bob1.728147292
Distribution: world
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems

In <ARCHER.882.728085194@utkvm1.utk.edu> ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:

>In article <1993Jan26.201607.4782@news.columbia.edu> jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman) writes:
>>>SG	Yeah, that's right. The government should steal money from those who 
>>>have it and give it to those who don't. Of course, this can be done with due 
>>>process and in non-violent offices by people with briefcases and university 
>>>degrees so its not theft (with the implicit threat of a policeman's gun should
>>>someone desire not to pay for the welfare state) but social policy."Hey Lefty!
>>>Hit that guy with your fist and take his money.Yeah, tell 'em we're liberating
>>>his wallet. Har! Har! Yeah, we'll buy Joe some cocaine. Yeah, we're stealing 
>>>your money to help a friend. You're not gonna be selfish and refuse to help 
>>>Joe, are you? Hit 'em again, Lefty."
>>
>>May you be faced with the choice between buying food and buying penicillin,
>>despite having worked since age 13.

>Needing these commodities does not give you the right to take resourced from 
>people who have earned them.

All of this right wing jazz is really amusing. At the economic conference
in Little Rock, the president of Ford said that health care now costs
more per car than the steel. It doesn't take a stroke of genius to
know that this must be true of many products. We spend more on health
than any other country and have nothing much to show for it - look
around you, what is the state of health of the people you see.

If we fix the problem, distribute the money WE ARE ALREADY SPENDING
in an intelligent manner, might not the costs of many products drop?
Another point, since all those costs are factored into our products,
we sure make life easy for our competitors in other countries.

You may holler socialism till you are blue in the face, I simply
call it another example of our favorite national sport - shooting
ourselves in the foot.

>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>E-Mail to PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu, mail to ARCHER at that address will
>bounce.    "Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian."
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

REB
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:69872 alt.atheism:27039 talk.religion.misc:27609
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Madeleine Murray O'Hare
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 10:16:03 GMT
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.
X-Language: Franglais
X-Newsreader: rusnews v0.98

kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) ecrit:
> And moreover you would be flamed by a good number of USENET readers
> (and not just American ones) for wasting net resources by posting a
> message that hardly anyone can understand.  (It seems that only the
> frogs are so ill-mannered as to engage in such rude and boorish
> behavior as this.)

"Monsieur Kettle est noir!" dit Monsieur Pot.


mathew
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: zygote@cs.uiuc.edu (The seed of all life)
Subject: Re: State's Rights
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:02:35 GMT

colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes:

>Of course they can.  They do it all the time.  but if they do
>pass an oppressive law, who will stop them if they are subject to
>no other authority.

And who will stop the Feds if they pass oppressive laws?  Should we
submit to the UN as some sort of global govt?

>>>Issues such as Sunday blue laws that discriminated against Jews and
>>>other non-christrians,

How?  So nobody can sell hardware on Sunday.  If thats your idea of
oppression that requires Fed intervention, so much for balance.


>The idea of what power the fed is limited to is always subject to
>interpretation. Sometimes, I think, with sinister intent.  Take
>Barry Goldwater, for example.  When black children were being denied
>a public school education he said that he was personally opposed to
>the practice.  However, he said, the fed could do nothing since
>the Constitution did not mention education as an area to be controlled

Is that different from "I personally oppose abortion, but don't wish
to impose my view on others"?

>If "proper state functions" are defined in (50) State constitutions,
>then there is no limit to what they can do.  See above what I said

And if proper Federal functions are defined in the Fed Constitution,
then there is no limit to what it can do?


Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: era@csn.org (Ed Arnold)
Subject: REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE
Originator: era@teal.csn.org
Keywords: Extremists, Christian Right, Amendment 2
Reply-To: era@csn.org (Ed Arnold)
Organization: Citizens Project; Colorado Springs, CO
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:47:55 GMT

We of the Citizens Project (Colorado Springs, CO) are looking for people
who could assist us in re-distributing the Citizens Project Newsletter
to non-Internet computer services.  If you have an account on any such
services (CompuServe, FidoNet, Genie, Prodigy, America Online, and others)
and are willing to help us, please let us know via return email to
era@ncar.ucar.edu.

The Citizens Project is a Colorado Springs, CO - based group of volunteers
who seek to prevent extremists from eliminating our fundamental freedoms,
in the face of growing political and religious intolerance in Colorado.
--
Ed Arnold * Boulder, CO * 303-497-1253(voice,weekday) * 303-494-6949(voice)
internet: era@csn.org * compuserve: internet:era@csn.org * bitnet: era@ncario
-- 
Ed Arnold * Boulder, CO * 303-497-1253(voice,weekday) * 303-494-6949(voice)
internet: era@csn.org * compuserve: internet:era@csn.org * bitnet: era@ncario
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.president.clinton
From: kme@node_1f11c.bnr.ca (Ken Michael Edwards)
Subject: Re: Clinton's flip-flop on Haitians!
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Research Triangle Park, NC
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:16:32 GMT

In article <C17u5y.Bw4@news.rich.bnr.ca>, harsch@bnr.ca (Joseph Harsch) writes:
|> 
|> 	Raising the income tax on Middle America is Political
|> 	Suicide. Clinton knows it. Read my lips, "not 
|> 	gonna happen." 

Sounds great, BUT Benson has already stated that a middle-class tax cut you
can kiss good-bye.  The next thing you know, he'll state that the 'economy is
SOOOO bad' that we'll have an 'across the board' tax hike.  I've read Bill 
Clinton's 'Plan'.  No way he can do it all, BOHICA !!

BTW, if he does increase taxes, will you pay mine ???

|> 
|> 	And this is supposed to be some sort of criticism? Seriously, 
|> 	I doubt Clinton will continue the Bush Policy of arming 
|> 	potential enimies of the state.  Oh! you meant the policy 
|> 	AFTER we built up his army. Why should Clinton diverge? I think 
|> 	Clinton stated that compliance with UN resolutions was
|> 	absolutely required. Not ifs ands ors or buts.  
|> 

And what's his plan with the muslims in Bosinea (sic), agreed something 
needs to be done, but create another Vietnam ???

-- 
======================================================================

Ken M. Edwards, Bell Northern Research, Research Triangle Park, NC
(919) 481-8476 email: cnc23a@bnr.ca    Ham: N4ZBB

All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of
my employer or co-workers, family, friends, congress, or president.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:70403 alt.peeves:19763 talk.politics.medicine:768 soc.culture.usa:10260 soc.culture.african.american:14467 sci.med:24607
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.peeves,talk.politics.medicine,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american,sci.med
Subject: Re: Statement of President Clinton on Health Care Reform Task Force
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 11:26:26 GMT
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.
X-Newsreader: rusnews v0.98

zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) writes:
>                             The for-profit health care system
> in this country is manifestly broken. The insurance companies 
> providing "health care coverage" are little better than your average
> coke dealer. I've been steadily employed since leaving college and 
> I've never had more than the most minor occasions to use my
> benefits.

Exactly.  Poor health is inextricably linked with poverty; hence those who
need medical treatment the most are by and large exactly the people who can't
afford it.


mathew
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:70342 alt.politics.clinton:21488 alt.president.clinton:1897