HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Originator: kjenks@gothamcity
Keywords: complexity
Organization: NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:09:21 GMT

I've read all of these strange, complicated systems people have come up
with, and I have one question: Why do you WANT to add critical
hits/fumbles to AD&D?

 - To "patch" the AD&D combat system "to add realism" 
 - To add danger (and one DM admitted that he was insufficiently
    imaginative to come up with a decent challenge otherwise)
 - To add excitement -- you never know when an orc will kill a 12th level
    fighter in one-on-one combat.  It could happen any time.
 - To add "realism" (I hope everybody laughs at that one)

The only good thing about the AD&D combat system is that it's simple
(compared to Runequest or GURPS or ARMS Law or...).  It isn't
realistic, it isn't very imaginative, it isn't gory.  But it's the
lingua franca of the fantasy role playing world.  I can go into any
college dorm and set up my DM screens, put pieces of paper and pencils
around the table, and start a pick-up game with total strangers within
an hour.  I don't have to spend hours explaining the combat system, and
combats go quickly, thus leaving time for the REAL purpose of a fantasy
role-playing game: fantasy role playing!

Every one of the crit/fumble systems adds complexity to the game.  It
will hurt your fighters.  It doesn't add any realism (ask anybody from
the SCA).  It does add danger and excitement -- but only to the PC's!
We all knew the monsters would lose in the end.  PC's just die faster.

Critical hits/fumbles are only part of the fantasy literature on which
D&D is based as a bad plot device.  If Merry and Pippin were in
hand-to-hand combat with a Nozgul, do you honestly think they'd have
ANY chance of winning?  I thought not.  Not unless the author (read:
the DM) WANTED them to win.  (David vs. Goliath was only noteworth
because the expected outcome did NOT happen.  Is that the way you
want your games to go?)

I challenge you, nay, I DARE you, as DM's, to play a few games without
your crit/fumble system.  I guarantee that you won't miss it.  Your
fighters will live longer, they won't throw their hard-won magic
weapons away, and you'll all have more time to do some role-playing.
Isn't that more fun than the old hack-and-slash?

Isn't that the whole point?

-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
      kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov  (713) 483-4368

      "Orcs are cruel and hate living things in general, 
       but they particularly hate elves and will always 
       attack them in preference to other creatures."
         -- AD&D Monster Manual 1, p. 76.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: seawasp+@pitt.edu (Ryk E Spoor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Enchanted weapons to hit...
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:58:45 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


	In general, my justification is that the creatures in question
are not made of ordinary material. They're either essentially energy
beings or made of magical material, and thus actual damage cannot be
done without negating some of that special energy. You can APPARENTLY 
damage such creatures with ordinary weapons (shoot the vampire with
a bullet) but it just stings. It can't touch their essence. Magical
weapons DO cut your essence, severing the astral/ethereal/soul lines
that make up the being.


				Sea Wasp
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: sri4495@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: New Proficiencies
Reply-To: sri4495@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 19:01:50 GMT

I don't think the public speaking proficiency really works.  As it now
sounds, it is something along the lines of "Change peoples opinions about
(subject), with bonuses if you know what you are talking about."  To me
this sound like a situation for role-playing, or if you feal the need to
roll dice, charisma, with obvious negitives thrown in if you don't know
what you are talking about.  The origanal premise of preaching was a good
idea, but I thought that the basics of religious ceremonies were taken care
of in the religion proficiency.  And if it is used to determine if the
people listening to a sermon like it or not, well, that's another role-
playing opertunity.  (Actually, the most fun thing to have in a campaign
is a preist who goes out and actively converts people.  Imagine Oral
Robberts in chain mail {=-)
--
Life is like a REALLY BIIIG rutabaga./-----\   Shawn, the very,very,very,VERY
I think.                        |    | * * |   eclectic. And God of The Funky
At least, it tastes like one.  -+-   | \_/ |   Hat. And the weirdo wannabe.
Especially with yogurt on top.  |    \_____/   SRI4495@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Except for strawberry.          | (3:16 of the NT)  
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: luhmann@cps.msu.edu (Patrick J Luhmann)
Subject: Re: Trolls' regeneration
Originator: luhmann@atlantic.cps.msu.edu
Reply-To: luhmann@cps.msu.edu (Patrick J Luhmann)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 14:34:24 GMT

In article <COVIN.92Sep28173905@despair.cs.uchicago.edu> covin@tartarus.uchicago.edu (David Covin) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.212012.6975@Princeton.EDU> tao@potato.princeton.edu (Terry Tao) writes:
>
   <...Stuff deleted...>

>If you think trolls are neat, you should look at the Runequest monster,
>the "walktapus" (like an octopus, but it walks on land...).  It
>regenerates, much like a troll-- but pieces cut off a walktapus
>regenerate into *new* walktapi of their own.  
>
Trolls do this also.  Any limb that is severed will try to reconnect with
its troll, but if it is unable to, it forms a new troll.

This brings up another question:  How much do trolls eat?  If enough food
is around powerful evil leaders could create quite an army by capturing a
few trolls and then "breeding" them.

>
>Just my thoughts...
>
>--
>David Covin                           covin@despair.uchicago.edu

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+  "Is it a hand on your shoulder   +  Pat                          +
+   From the Lord above             +  luhmann@atlantic.cps.msu.edu +
+   Or the Devil himself            +                               +
+   Come to give you a shove?"      +    "Life is easier if         +
+              --  "Fates Warning"  +     you embrace death"        +
+                    Iron Maiden    +                 --  Me        +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: alongley@cape.UWaterloo.ca (Allan Longley)
Subject: Re: Trolls' regeneration
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:14:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.005640.24176@ncsu.edu> mrmarcel@eos.ncsu.edu (MICHAEL RONN MARCELAIS) writes:
>In article <Bvo9Lp.CHx@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, alongley@cape.UWaterloo.ca (Allan Longley) writes:
>|> 
>|> Trolls as "living" creatures has always been a good argument point 
>|> for AD&D'rs.  Here's a few questions;
>|> 
>|> 	Is a troll alive?

>Of course its alive.  It eats, grows, excretes, etc.  (don't have a bio book
>with me that lists all those criteria) but they are alive.

Grows?  Are there baby trolls?  It doesn't age.  It regenerates, but it does
not grow.  It doesn't need to breath, else you could kill a troll by 
submerging it in water.

>|> Are they immortal (they shouldn't age thanks to regeneration)?

>They can be killed, but they shouldn't have any inate lifespan due to
>regeneration.

Killed or destroyed?  Wraiths are destroyed, bears are killed.  Is there any
other immortal creature that is alive?

>|> 	How do they reproduce?
>
>Because they are immortal, I shouldn't think that they need to reproduce.  If
>they did, it's probably by fission.  (Cut a troll in half *boom* you have two
>trolls!)

Interesting ... the only way to generate 2 trolls from 1 is to but it into
2 equal parts -- exactly equal.  This wouls keep troll propagation to a
minimum (else ... end of mankind).

>|> 	Is a troll regenerated from a finger a new troll?
>
>If you give it enough time and keep away from fire/acid.

No, I mean a NEW troll, as opposed to the same troll reborn to extract
revenge!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan Longley, University of Waterloo, Department of Chemical Engineering
e-mail: alongley@cape.uwaterloo.ca
voice: (519) 885-1211 x3816		If they're alive ... vampire troll!
home: (519) 746-5747
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mpd48941@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Duff)
Subject: Re: Trolls' regeneration
Reply-To: duff@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 05:04:38 GMT

In <COVIN.92Sep28173905@despair.cs.uchicago.edu> covin@tartarus.uchicago.edu (David Covin) writes:

>  suffocation-- like the death spell, just does h.p. damage.  The
>            troll probably also can't regenerate until it gets air
>            again.  Keeping it airless for a *long* time might cause
>            it to die permanently.
The way I have always treated troll regeneration is, if the cells in their
body can be recreated (through regeneration) they WILL regenerate, regardless
of how low in HP they go.  What this means is that if a troll were to be
suffocating for a long time, there would be no oxygen for them to use in
recreating the cells they're losing to keep the tissue alive.  Therefore,
they would surely die.
>
>  freezing to death-- I'd be tempted to rule that trolls can be frozen
>            solid and thawed out again intact...
 I agree, because their tissue would remain (for the most prt) intact, and
 they could rebuild all cells when they emerged.

What I do when determining troll death/life is see whether the troll would
be able to rebuild (fire halts any chance of THAT) and if so, the troll will
reemerge from even the moste traumatic of experiences.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Michael Duff              | "Thank you for bringing up such a painful     | 
| ACM membership coord.     |  memory.  While you're at it, why don't you   |
| ACM SIGsoft               |  give me a paper cut and pour lemon juice     |
| duff@cs.uiuc.edu          |  on it.                                       |
| mpd48941@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu |          - Miracle Max of Princess Bride fame |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 1992 16:50:26 -0400 
From: "Jordan M. Wolbrum" <jw67+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Swords of Sharpness and Incredible Constitution
	<1992Sep28.112427.7130@iscsvax.uni.edu>

For game balance within my campaign, SoS don't do any extra damage(its
bad enough that you lost a limb!)

But......SoS are much, much more common that Vorpal Swords.

I was thinking of making all vorpal swords intelligent..thereby creating
another problem for the PC's

As to Superelf, congrats on the high Con, but sorry, you're still dead!
From: rugi@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Gilman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Sowrds of Sharpness and Incredible Constitution
Keywords: sharpness
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:24:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Oct2.162425.4186
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange

In article <6578@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>
>	And limited charges on such things... come on. If you don't want
>the players to have it, don't give it to them. It's that simple. If
>I put a Vorpal weapon or one of sharpness in a place where a character
>will get it, then that's my intent. I'm not going to sleaze around
>and make it a semi-vorpal charged item. I mean, really, that would make
>the thing weaker than a moderately well charged wand. 
>
>
>                                 Sea Wasp
>                                   /^\
>                                   ;;;

Yeah- You gotta watch out for those semi-vorpal swords.  They only half cut
your opponent's head off. . .  Sometimes that's only partially fatal.  ;)

Thanks for the giggle, Sea Wasp.

-- 

Cthulu in '92!  Why Settle for the Lesser of Two Evils!

rugi@cie-uoregon.edu
From: raa@guild.socal.com (Raa Lopez)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Dark Sun
Date: 3 Oct 92 09:34:29 PST
Organization: TheGuild[FTS]

Alright! This sounds good. I know where My next check is going to! ;^} I took a look at the Dark Sun Boxed Set and it looks pretty good. And I like the fact that stats range from 5-20 ;^} not like characters from other AD&D worlds! And The new "ESPer" class I created would make Psionics alot more powerful! Peace!

--- Via UCI v1.11 (C-Net Amiga)

     __ ___ ____________ __ __ __ __ __ __
     \//___\\__  ______//_//_//_//_//_//_/ ... UUCP: raa@guild.socal.com
 _____//__//  / / DigiT.W.I.T. Ink. UnLtd. '92!
/_________/o (_/o Pffffttt!!!...Pop!!!...Bang!!!.....Etc.!!!?
From: dshaffer@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Donald A Shaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: new spell
Date: 29 Sep 92 23:04:40 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


    Ok, these are 2 new spells I came up with, critism is wanted as well as
suggestions for level (I'm thinking around 4th)

Masol's Light blast (Alteration)
level: ?
range: 15' + 1' per level
casting time:4
AoE: 15' radius
components: V,S,M
duration:Instantaneous
saving throw: special

  This spell will instantaneosly create a sphere of intence light, that will   
almost certainly blind any creature inside the area of effect.  A saving throw
vs paralysis at a -4 penelty is needed to avoid permanent blindness for those
within the sphere.  Those who do make a save are blinded for the next 2d8
hours.  Creature in the sphere will also take 1d2 per level damage due to
flash burns, a succesful saving throw results in half damage.
  Also, any creature who looks at the light, must make the same saving throw
(without the penalty) or risk going blind for 2d8 hours.  A succesful saving  
throw from this point, will result in no ill effects.
  The material components are 10 fireflies enclosed in a crystal sphere of at 
least 500 GP.  This is thrown and shattered at the impact area.


Masol's Spell to Item Transferal (alteration, enchantment)
level: ?
range: touch
casting time: special
AoE: one item
components:V,S,M
duration: Special
Saving Throw: Nil.

  When this spell is cast, the caster establishes a link with the item he 
holds. Immediatle after casting this spell, the wizard MUST cast another     
touch ranged spell or the effects of the transferal are negated.  The 
casting time of this second spell is its original casting time +1.  The 
second spell is cast in the same round as the first.
  Whenever the item hits another creature, the effects of the second touch 
spell immediatley take effect.  The spell stays in the item untill either it
is discharges or the second spell's duration run's out.
  A permanency spell cast on an item with Transference in it it, will have
the effect of the transference until dispelled (note: The second spell WILL 
NOT be permanent)
  The material component of this spell is the item on which the trasference
is to take place.
  (This spell was thought up by my Militant wizard ti give his weapons some 
more oomph)

******************************************************************************
It it doesn't bit you		*	Chip'Chirip
   eat it              		*          -Thri-Kreen champion
If it does bite you, kill it    *        AkA Don Shaffer
   Then eat it.                 *            dshaffer@ndromeda.rutgers.edu
       -Thri-Kreen saying       *
*****************************************************************************
From: Devon_Sheppard@mindlink.bc.ca (Devon Sheppard)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: World sizes
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:22:21 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Thanks, Terry... I know the calculations would be virtually impossible in a
hilly region, but that kinda of a situation can be easily improvised/dealt with
via logical means.

As for topographical maps, it's a great idea to go to the local outdoors stores
or specialty maps stores and get topo maps for various regions. They make it
easy to set up an encounter in the woods, plains, mountains, whatever. The
smaller the scale, the better they are.

  Devon

--
devon_sheppard@mindlink.bc.ca

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: brunborg@solan.unit.no (]dne Brunborg)
Subject: Re: Dual classing
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 09:57:27 GMT

In article <5689@news.duke.edu>, dks@acpub.duke.edu writes:
 > 
 > 	I have a few strange dual-class situations, and I want to know how
 > some other people would respond to/rule on them:
 > 	We have a 9th level fighter, Str 15, Int 17, Con 15, proficient in
 > the use of the staff, among other weapons. After years of study, he dual-
 > classes as a magic-user (this is for 1st or 2nd ed.)... He takes dagger 
 > proficiency as an m-u.
 > 	1) Does he get a "free" proficiency in the staff, so long as when
 > he attacks with it he uses the mage tables?  He already knows how to use
 > staff, and m-u's have staff on the allowed weapon list...  Does he mystic-
 > ally "forget" and need to attack as an m-u with the -5 non-prof penalty?


The book says that "if the character uses any of the proficencies of his previous
class, he gets no XP for the encounter and only half the XP for the adventure."
I would not give him a new weapon-proficencies when he started as a mage, but I
would allow him to use the staff as a 1st level mage, THAC0 20.


 > 	2) (2nd ed in particular)  What happens to his non-weapon proficien-
 > cies?  Languages I'd expect he'd retain at no penalty for their use. (Lang-
 > uages are NWP's in 2nd ed, in many campaigns.)  Can he use all of his other
 > NWP's at no penalty?  Only non-warrior group ones? Only the general and 
 > (though unlikely to be possessed) wizard-grouped ones?

I would say he can use the general group proficencies. I would not give him any
new proficencies before his level as mage gives him more NWP-slots than he
already has as fighter. 

 > 	3) a) Say he somehow gains a point of Constitution (making it 16)...
 > Does he get 9 extra hit points immediately? Wait until he gets to be a 10th
 > lvl m-u, when he ordinarily starts getting extra hp's?

Yes, he gets 9 HP right away. 


 > 	   b) Our lucky guy gets another Con point, up to 17... Since he
 > got his original hit points as a fighter, does he get another 9 hp's (as the
 > hp bonus goes from +2 to +3)?  Or since he's an m-u now, is he denied the
 > extra 9?

I would not give him the extra 9 HP, because he is currently advancing as a mage.
It is possible a Wish-spell would give him the bonus, though...


 > 	I'd appreciate some opinions.
 > 	I'll also come up with a signature in the meantime.


Well, thet's mine (opinions and signature)!


So long!

		Aadne Brunborg
		Norwegian Institute of Thechnology
		University of Trondheim
		NORWAY

	"If ye can't see it, it's right behind ye..."
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Sowrds of Sharpness and Incredible Constitution
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:45:37 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd2.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1992Sep28.164243.1228@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>In article <6383@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep27.201930.1215@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>>>	First, the DM should be shot for letting you get away with reading
>>>up on the stats of a magic item you found, and then not nailing you for it.

>> 	Uhn? So, shoot me. I own DMG, PH, and I run games. If I play in

>	I don't like players who get a magic item, then read up on it, or use
>knowledge the PCs *shouldn't* have. In my campaigns, if a PC gets their hand on
	That's keeping player knowledge and character knowledge separate;
a trivial problem in my view. Your solution for it is the same as mine.
However, there is no way to keep people from reading the books, nor from,
as a PLAYER, debating about the proper effects of a given item. If they
have the CHARACTER (who isn't a sage or something) stare at the item and
say "hmm. that's funny, a wand of whoosiwatsis always does X." then 
do nasty things to them. But this not reading the books business is 
silly. It may be possible to manage with newbie players, but with
veterans (like, over half my group have been playing for 8 years)
it's impossible. They're all GMs, they all know the books, often they
help me find information. They also know that they'd better not use
the info as a player. Simple.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: rsm58307@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ron)
Subject: Continuation of Drow Offspring and Rangers
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 01:13:06 GMT

[Stuff about Drow]
Don't know. Never made one. I can't see a drow without all that nifty stuff
and I never really liked the "now you lose all your innate abilities because
it would overbalance PC drow" rule.

[Stuff about Rangers and Their Failings]
I like giving them a set of proficiencies all their own that relate to their
indepth knowledge of a prey's habits. Coupled with the ability to do +1 dmg
per two levels against most creatures they know about, this gives the Ranger
a degree of wisdom/competance that makes their high experience gain balance
out. They become very powerful in forests, good in dungeons, and ok in towns.

	- Ron
From: mlee@ocf.berkeley.edu (Michael Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Deaths Door
Date: 1 Oct 1992 00:03:22 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: planecrash.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep30.170430.1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au> edb892rsft@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
>
>I was just wondering what effects apply to a character to is reduced to
>a hit point total of between 0 and -9? I know that you lose 1 hp per
>round unless administed first aid or healed but how long can a person
>stay between these ranges. Also if they are healed they wake up in 1 - 6
>turns but do they suffer weakness or other ill effects?
>
	I'm pretty sure the idea is that they do go down 1 hp at a time until
-10, at which time the character dies at the end of that round.  When they
wake up, they can only walk, no running and no fighting, and can barely even
do that, walking that is.
	But I have a question, after a binding of the wounds, do they just
stay at the negative hps they were at or do they go to 0?
	I think Healing Proficiency or Cure Light Wounds brings them back to
1, right?
				mlee