From: sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe)
Subject: Re: iq<->religion: connection?
Organization: New Mexico State University
Distribution: world,public
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 04:42:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.003534.15314@prime.mdata.fi> iikkap@mits.mdata.fi (Iikka Paavolainen) writes:
>In article <1992Dec27.162821.4675@jcnpc.cmhnet.org> mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org (Mike A. McAngus) writes:
>>
>>This is still statistically insignificant, anecdotal evidence.
>
>1000 people statistically insignificant?

You have IQ scores on 1000 people?  You have an accurate idea of how
religious every one of these 1000 people are?  If you've done such a
study, great, tell us more.  But I hope these are not just
"impressions" you have gained from casual observations.

>>Sorry, I thought this was a rhetorical question related to your sentence 
>>"Proof?" above.
>>Now I will say that, given the context, I don't understand what you are asking.
>>What is the point I'm evading?
>
>Proof of this 'intelligence' in Luther et al.
>You must define intelligence for yourself to be able to state this.
>You are bashing yourself with your own words.

Pot.  Kettle.  Black.


>>: >Where is your statistical study of this area of intelligence?
>>:
>>: On my desk.
>>
>>Could you post the results and email a copy to me?
>
>No thanks. Only to a person who does something with them.

Why are you afraid to do this?  Afraid we'll steal your thunder?  If
it's at all rigorous, then it is just the substantiation your
position needs.

>>Given that Mr. Doe and I are arguing that your personal experiences are not 
>>significant, pointing to your belief and saying that Xians will suppress 
>>evidence is begging the question.
>
>If you don't find my experiences significant, why don't you have some experien-
>ces for yourself. This isn't a thesis or anything, just a sincere observation.
>Anybody saying that my 'thesis' is not substatiated or sounds stupid, can say
>what they want, because I don't have a thesis.
>So what if you prove that intelligence has no effect on atheism? Easy?

So we're not to ask for any kind of rigorous substantiation because
you haven't presented a "thesis", just some "sincere observations."

Is it possible you still don't see the fallacy of your position?

You've basically admitted here you have no real proof of your
position.  But of course, it's still rational to take your position.
That's the sort of "reasoning" most of us live to disabuse Christians
of, you know.

>>: And the stuff in the Bible is pointless without proper study. Gotcha.
>>
>>I'll also ask the Xians for proof of their assertions.  When the Xians state 
>>that god exists, we in this group ask for corroboration independent of their 
>>holy texts.  When you state that Atheists are more intelligent than Xians, it
>>is reasonable for people to ask you for corroboration independent of your
>>circle of friends.
>
>And? How true have you found the christians beliefs to be? Did you not use
>intelligence to deduce your conclusion?
>I am just getting more and more support for the original idea.

The point of this discussion is that we are not going to hold you to
more lenient standards than we would hold a Christian to, if they made
the same sort of arguments in favor of a correlation between
intelligence and Christianity.  You seem to admire scientists very
much, why don't you go learn how a real scientist would attempt to
show if your correlation existed?

SD