From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Homosepciesexist fantasies.
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:02:21 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <SCG.92Jul31083850@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring) writes:

> 
>>That is correct, you are not gay. You are bisexual. It doesn't matter
>>if you haven't had such experiences willfully.
> 
> Bullshit.  The mere fact that some shithead in Texas got the notion to
> try to stick his dick up my ass (he failed, by the way - no
> penetration) does not make me bisexual.  Sexual preference describes
> what *I* want, not what others have forced upon me.

I believe the phrase I used "It doesn't matter if you haven't had such
experiences wilfully" should have been phrased "A lack of physical sexual
experience does not nullify one's sexual orientation."

IF you fantasize about men and women, you are bi. You may wish to call yourself
some other phrase, but that would be like Hugh Hefnr calling himself virgin
because it is the terminology he wants used.

Or, I suppose, like Ted Kennedy calling himself a celibate, but I digress.

The point is that sexual orientation is a combination of physical AND mental
desire/experiences. Most people prefer to call themselves straight despite an
occoasional homosexual experience and or homosexual fantasies, but that isn't 
what the sex researchers use. 

Otherwise, a person would be neither heterosexual or homosexual until their
first score, which is a ludicrous concept.

> 
>>A teenage male who fantasies about sex with women all day long, but
>>has never even kissed one, is heterosexual. A teenage female who
>>fantasizes about nothing but sex with another woman (women) is
>>homosexual.
> 
> A man who fantasizes about raping women all day long, but has never
> actually done so, is a rapist.  A woman who fantasizes about nothing
> but being raped is a rape victim.

Nice slip into the absurd. A rape victim is someone who has been raped. A
rapist is someone who has committed the act of rape. Mental states do not enter
into it in the least. (Except for mens rea on the part of the rapist, but that
is a defense used by the defendant, and not a subject here.) Rape is a physical
act, not a mental one. (Although, mental states during the physical act of
intercourse do determine if the act is rape or consensual) 

A person who fantasizes about being raped is someone who has rape fantasies. A
person who fantasies about raping is someone who fantasies about rape.

Y'know, I can understand you were fuming, but didn't you feel real absurd
writing that right after you entered it?

> 
>>A man who has done nothing but screw women, but only fantasies about
>>screwing men, is mostly gay. Ditto for the wanton woman who fantasies
>>about women, but sleeps only with men.
> 
> A man who has done nothing but have consentual sex with women, but
> only fantasizes about raping them, is mostly a rapist.  

Once more, really, really absurd leap. One is neither mostly or somewhat a
rapist. Someone who has committed the physical act of raping another human
being is a rapist. Unlike sexual prefernces, it is not a sliding scale.


> 
> Stop vacillating, DC.  First you insist that fantasies aren't the same
> as actually doing it, and now you insist they are.  Make up your mind,
> dear.

On the contrary, I have never said that thinking about it is the same as doing
it. You have been suffering from the misconception that one's sexual prefernce
is determined ONLY by their sexual partner's gender.

One can have nothing but homosexual experiences and and still be bixesual.
However, it is really rare for a male to have had heterosexual experiences 
and still be exclusively homosexual, as one of, if not the most important
criteria for determining sexual orientation is desire--NOT experience, and
it is difficult for a male with no desire for a woman to be able to coplute
with her.

C'mon use your brain. If sexual orientation was ONLY experience, then how could
someone "come out of the closet" after years of screwing women and raising a
family? How could he say "I have been gay all of this time and been forced to
hide it"? (Actually, he has been bi all of this time, with strong homosexual
tendancies/desires.)
only homosexual.


DC