From: salaris@niblick.ecn.purdue.edu (Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrabbits)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Is there anybody here that's not a Baptist?
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:35:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <drice.712393406@ponder>, drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice) writes:
> In <1992Jul28.205404.21845@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> salaris@niblick.ecn.purdue.edu (Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrabbits) writes:
> 
> >I am not a Baptist, I am a baptized Greek (Eastern) Orthodox
> >christian.  Our theological beliefs are VERY different from the
> >radical breakaway groups from Western Christianity, especially
> >Baptists.  I amnot saying that we are better, just different;
> 
> Since when is the Baptist denomination a "radical breakaway group
> from Western Christianity?"
> 
Roman Catholics broke of from Eastern Orthodoxy in the 11th century.
Since then, there was the Protestant reformation and several others
from the Catholic church.  Baptists were formed as on of those
breakaway groups a few centuries ago.

> >We do not accept "Speaking in tongues" as a common occurence during
> >religious experiences and we view it more as a monkey see monkey do
> >phenomenon.
> 
> That's not different from the Baptist view.
> 
Sorry, you are right, it is more of a Charismatic view.

> >We do not view Revelation as a true propecy of the end times
> 
> Quotes from Revelation chapter 1 (NIV):
> 
> v. 1 - The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his
>        servants what must soon take place.

Yeah, but when is soon, next month or ten thousand years from now.
Parts of it (like the beast and 666 stuff refer to Christian
persecution in the times of Nero Ceasar.  His initials in the
Hebrew alpha-numeric system are 666.  The second beast that makes
people worship the first beast refers to pagan priests in Rome.

> vv. 17-19 - When I (John) saw him (Jesus), I fell at his feet as though
>             dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not
> 	    be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One;
> 	    I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I
> 	    hold the keys of death and Hades. Write, therefore, what you
> 	    have seen, what is now and what will take place later."

Yeah, so what's your point?  See above.
> 
> IMO, if you do not believe that Revelation is true, then you do not
> believe that Jesus Christ speaks truth.
> 
Christ's words are true, but the books were written by men who are
not infallible and the book is a highly fantastic book full of allusions.
No one is 100% sure what it all means.

> >We have 9 more books in our old Testament
> 
> Proverbs 30:5,6 (NIV) - Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield
> 	to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or
> 	he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

I am getting ticked.  If you knew anything beyond your narrow view of
Christianity, you would be aware that the Bible was originally made up
of volumes of books.  At the time of the printing press, some books of
the Bible were thrown out because they were considered to fantastic or
not in total agreement with the Gospels.  Some books are beautiful
works of praise and rejoice over God (like Psalms of Solomon, etc.).
We are not adding anything, it was the Catholic Church and other
frothing fundy religions that took the books out of the Eastern Bible.

I suppose you also don't accept the Dead Sea Scrolls as having any value
or merit.  Open your mind!

> >We venerate icons and view them as representations of events and
> >beings in Heaven.
> 
> Exodus 20:4 (NIV) - You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of
> 	anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters
> 	below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the
> 	LORD your God, am a jealous God
> 
> From Webster's Dictionary:
> 
> venerate - to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference.
> 	(syn. see 'revere')
> 
> worship(2) - to regard with great, even extravagant respect, honor, or
> 	devotion. (syn. see 'revere')
> 
> revere - to show devoted deferential honor to: regard as worthy of great
> 	honor (syn. 'reverence,' 'venerate,' 'worship')
> 
Thank you Mr. Dictionary.  We use icons to display scenes from events
that occured during the life of Christ and as pictures of the Saints
that have graced our Churches history.  We DO NOT use them or view them
as idols!  We pray to the saints and ask them to intervene on our behalf
before the Holy Trinity.  They are part of God's holy church in heaven
which is made up of the Virgin Mary, the Saints, the Angels and all of the
glorious and magnificent creatures of Heaven such as the Seraphim.
Yes, we revere the Saints and show them great honor because they are
examples of God's truth and work here on earth.  They are role models
for us to follw in our attempts to become Christ-like beings both on
this earth and in heaven.

I suggest you take the time to learn more about the role of the Saints,
the true meaning of Revelation and the Deuterocanonical books of the
bible before you go biting on my religion.  I never made any derogatory
comments on your religion, I just pointed out the extreme differences.

We view all Christian religions as valid and all members as our
brethren.  It looks like the Baptists obviously do not hold that
same regard for us - too bad.

Steven C. Salaris


--
Steven C. Salaris                We're...a lot more dangerous than 2 Live Crew
salaris@carcs1.wustl.edu         and their stupid use of foul language because
				 we have ideas.  We have a philosophy.
					      Geoff Tate -- Queensryche
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian