HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: laser@vpnet.chi.il.us (Paul Lamb)
Subject: Re: ANTI PAINTBALLERS???
Organization: Vpnet Public Access
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:29:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.210135.2005@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
>john@kennel.FIDONET.ORG (John Hamilton) writes:
>
>>Friday January 22 1993 15:02, Robert Osborne wrote to All:
>
>> RO> Anything that can fire a .68 calibre projectile at 450+ fps *IS* a
>> RO> firearm.  If you put an aluminum alloy ball, marble or ball bearing in
>
>>before you could pick yours up. By the way, a ball bearing at 450 fps will
>>not kill unless it strikes the skull just so, and even then, its unlikely.
>>A .22 short has far more inertial mass when it strikes than this theoretical
>>ball bearing.
>
>	.22 short bullet, 29 grains at 1100 fps = 78 ft-lbs of energy.
>and 32 units* of momentum.
>.36" lead ball = 70 grains, so a .68" lead ball = 472 grains.
>At 450 fps this = 212 ft-lbs of energy, and 212 units* of momentum.
>I don't recall the weight of steel vs lead but assuming it is 1/3,
>the bearing has 71 ft-lbs of energy and 71 units* of momentum.
>* some nameless unit of momentum where one unit = 
>1 grain at 1000 fps.
>	If this holds, then it has far _more_ momentum than a .22 
>short, and only slightly less energy.  I wouldn't volunteer to 
>be hit with either the .22 or the .68 bearing, as either one could 
>kill a person.
>
>	Incidentally, paintball games to me look like marathon
>sessions in violating every basic gun safety rule, or perhaps 
>the lab part of a class in advanced unsafe gun handling techniques.
>I wouldn't want to ban it, however, and I have had fun doing it
>in the past.
>	Just like people understand the difference between TV and
>reality, the paintballers I know understand the difference between
>practicing very unsafe "gun" handling on the paintball field, and 
>the very serious matter of unsafe gun handling in real life.
>
>JD
>
>	OB scary fantasy:   I'm sure everyone who has played has thought
>of this one:  what if you were at a game and some maniac decided to
>really kill people?
>
>"but whatarya sore about?  It was a just .22 short, with barely more 
>energy than a paintball"

I don't know about the physics course here, sounds like something for 
alt.boring.egghead.  What I do knoe is that paintball is a very safe sport
compared to many.  Ask the experts, the people that insure paintball fields-
According to them less people per 1000 players are injured playing paintball
than volleyball.  Sounds to me like the players know about safe gun practices.
Further, I gather from you position on this issue that you've never played
paintball.  That makes it impossible for you to comment on any aspect of the game.  Try playing before trying to pass yourself off as an expert!  P.S. Be
careful playing volleyball-You never know when some maniac with a gun will
show and start shooting.  The world is a dangerous place sometimes.  Although
experts like you make me feel so much safer.  I bet you're the kind of person
that would try to bring a real gun onto a paintball field.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch (Peter John Kunz)
Subject: Re: Who is Keith Idema?  (The answer!)
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:19:47 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.220009.1@vax2.winona.msus.edu> tyger@vax2.winona.msus.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.182426.5157@wkuvx1.bitnet>, hargijk@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>
>All in all, it may make a diffrence.  Then again, it might not.  Time will tell
>all, I guess.  But if you have ICS gear, hold onto it with both hands.  If you
>don't, you might want to try and get a vest soon.

are they that good?

>Oh well, I'll quit wasting CPU space and let someone els do something important
>like posting a way to win against semi-autos with a Splatmaster(tm)...
>

trick the semi into beleieving your semi is out of air, then splat him at close
range. worked for me.. :-)


cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz	Vogesenstr. 60	4106 Therwil	Switzerland
petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch	pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch

Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: phardie@nastar.uucp (Pete Hardie)
Subject: Re: IRONMAN on Olympic particulars
Organization: Digital Transmission Systems, Duluth, GA.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:41:55 GMT

In article <cfNkHia00iV306iXpW@andrew.cmu.edu> Alexander Franklin Rose <ar2z+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Hey kids,
>    I think the only form of paintball that could be entered into the
>Olympics would be a speed ball of sorts in which camoflauge and even
>black guns would be useless.  Regulation gun and outfit colors could be
>easily enforced and would take the very far away from WAR.  The
>speedball format makes reffing very easy and T.V. coverage actually
>entertaining.

I agree with this - speedball-type games would be almost the only form this
sport could be Olympicized in.

The question is - how would it be covered?  Right now, there are few sports
that have a direct, interspersed 'conflict' type of play (soccer, for example).
How would a sports commentator be able to folow the action for the all-
important TV audience, when s/he can't even see that paintballs in flight?

-- 
Pete Hardie:  phardie@nastar  (voice) (404) 497-0101
Digital Transmission Systems, Inc., Duluth GA
Member, DTS Dart Team           |  cat * | egrep -v "signature virus|infection" 
Position:  Goalie               |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball,alt.sport.paintball
From: zoh1@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Chunae Zoh)
Subject: Re: Apex Elite
Reply-To: zoh1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:44:20 GMT
From: d2jo@dtek.chalmers.se (Johnny Johanson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 23 Jan 93 16:43:12 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden

phardie@nastar.uucp (Pete Hardie) writes:

>I would think that 'outdoors' paintball would be hard to watch as a spectator,
>and perhaps a little too easy to cheat.

But it would be pretty neat to watch on TV if you put a helmet-cam on every
player!!!

I have by the way also heard RUMOURS about paintball in the olympics...


// Johnny



--
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural defi-
ciency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes."
                          - Ford Prefect ("Life, the Universe and Everything")
From: billc@mpd.tandem.com (Bill Carter)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: PCRI
Date: 20 Jan 93 15:02:47 GMT
Reply-To: billc@zippy.UUCP (Bill Carter)
Organization: Tandem Computers, Austin TX


   A number of people have sent me email asking for the address
   of Paintball Consumer Reports International (PCRI).

   PCRI
   4015 Chain Bridge Road
   Fairfax, VA  22030-0388

   Phone#  703-385-0144

   They don't take subcriptions over the phone, you have to send
   in a check or money order.  It's $14.95 for one year.  I subscribed
   and also sent in $3.50 for a back issue containing reviews of the
   Illustrator and the Automag.

   -Bill Carter
From: bmich@cs.utexas.edu (Brian Keith Michalk)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: ANTI PAINTBALLERS???
Date: 25 Jan 93 09:21:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: cash.lm8meiINNccu
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.cs.utexas.edu

My friends and I used to go camping all the time when we played paintball.
We would bring whatever guns we wanted, shotguns, rifles, pistols, you
name it.  Anyway, I saw the possibility of accidentally playing
paintball with a real gun (still scares me).

Anyway, now there are no real guns allowed when we go.
.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:31:06 CST
From: DMc <U53306@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Phantom!!
 <1993Jan22.221806.23234@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
 <1993Jan25.233624.22756@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>

I have been using my sterling for about almost 9 months now.

Nothing touches it.  nothing.  It has absolutely the best action of any
pump I have ever held.  it consistently out-ranges the semis by a good
margin (enough for me to get the kill and them to leave the field wondering)
and is the most velocity consistant gun I have ever seen, IRREGARDLESS
of weather.

I don't mean to preach too much, but I have been in heaven with this gun
from the day I bought it.  It is tremendously sweet.  My F1 sits back
seat to this gun, no question.  well worth every penny I spent on it.

                          -dave mccarty

--
<u53306@uicvm.uic.edu> <mccarty@earth.eecs.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball,alt.sport.paintball
From: bcetnar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Blake Cetnar)
Subject: Re: Apex Elite
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:30:48 GMT

In article <1jvterINNcb6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> crm4@po.CWRU.Edu (Charles R. Mart
in) writes:
>
>I'm not sure exactly what the Apex costs, but from what I've heard ,
>they are anything but elite!! I would highly reccomend getting a
>Phantom. They are excellent guns. Even better yet , try a Sterling.


Whoa...hold on.  For the price of an Elite you would probably be better off 
getting a semi-auto.  The Elite just MIGHT be worth the money...but I have 
found, (usually the hard way), that quantity usually beats quality.


"Say, that's a nice revolver ya got there...but I'll bet me an my gatling gun 
will outshoot you in a draw...let's find out!"
From: c_snet@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Test!!!!
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:11:20 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

This is not a test this is the real thing !! Please do not ignore !!
In article <1993Jan20.220335.1@vax2.winona.msus.edu>, tyger@vax2.winona.msus.edu writes:
> Test  Please Ignore.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: IRONMNAN on MotoX Armor
From: tyger@vax2.winona.msus.edu
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:14:57 CST
Organization: Winona State University

>>These Vents are by far the best
>>protection and visibility available. Yes, I've tried them all.
> I wear Vents, and would never wear anything else in play.
> bounce off the head armor, I have never had any fogging.  And I have played in
> 90 deg weather, 100% hum, with a slight drizzel coming down. ...well worth the
> 65 or 70 bucks you pay.  You buy anything less and you will be buying
> Vents later on. As for Scott, well if you like cheap plastic
> that breaks all the time feel free to waste your money there.
> Bjs

(How can you top that kind of testimonial?)
(Like this)

I have gotten the "Envy Green" Lens that Vents puts out for the predator
system.  I have used them a few times, and they help me when I play.  It's
kinda like wearing sunglasses to play paintball.  The mirrored lens is 
subdued enough to aid in camouflage.  The field owner thought it would be a 
hinderance to me, but it turned  out to be an incredible help!

I can also tell you that the red tinted lens for the vents goggles is as
good (if not better) than the JT's.  I got a bit miffed at JT for TOTALLY
discontinuing the snapper line.  Rather than spend on the same old system,
I upgraded.

Oh yeah.  Did you know that the vents mask takes well to >real< paint as well?
I've painted mine with a feline approach (nach.)  All you need is some talent
(HA!), a few materials, some 'dullcoat' (available at any hardware store) and
you are ready.  I've washed the mask off several times and no problems yet.

It's also nice to be able to paint over black instead of OD green.

That's my testimonial.  TTFN     			-Tyger



Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball,talk.politics.guns
From: petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch (Peter John Kunz)
Subject: Re: ANTI PAINTBALLERS???
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:04:46 GMT

In article <4057@isgtec.isgtec.com> robert@isgtec.com (Robert Osborne) writes:
>
>Anything that can fire a .68 calibre projectile at 450+ fps *IS* a
>firearm.  If you put an aluminum alloy ball, marble or ball bearing in
>a paintball gun, cranked your gun up as high as it would go, and fired
>at a sheet of plywood, you would quickly demonstrate this to yourself.
>(Warning: don't try this at home, kids!)

should this really be posted?....
while we're at it, just take a look at us cavalry or gander mountain catalogs

>Hell, the Swiss effectively used a pump air rifle in war.

oh? (see .sig)

>You see,  their logic goes like this:
>
>    Paintball is dangerous.  Paintball guns could be used to hurt
>    someone.  You have no *need* to play paintball.  Hence is no reason
>    for you to play paintball, hence laws should be passed outlawing
>    paintball and paintball guns.

actually, here it goes like this:
in pb (and lasertag) you shoot people. shooting people becomes natural
for you. you will not hesitate to shoot people in real life with 'real'
guns. bad people will come to train. volatile people will become bad.

i may add that every mal has to do military service and has a full auto
'assault rifle' with 24 rounds of ammo at home. strange, isn't it?

>It is interesting to note that note that most gun-control and
>anti-paintball advocates desire laws with stricter penalties
>for simple possession of a 'firearm' than the penalties associated
>with actual physical assault.  It says a lot about their motives.

sure does


cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz	Vogesenstr. 60	4106 Therwil	Switzerland
petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch	pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch

Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: goebel@rtsg.mot.com (Chris J. Goebel)
Subject: Playing in Chicago....
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: nation
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:26:52 GMT

My friends and I have never played before, but we have heard
some good things about it.  Please post/reply with information
as to were we can try it out somewhere in the Chicago area.

Thanks!

-chris

Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball,talk.politics.guns
From: ambone@imag.fr (Ambone Gilles)
Subject: Re: ANTI PAINTBALLERS???
Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:33:58 GMT

In article <cyang.727829435@unixg.ubc.ca>, cyang@unixg.ubc.ca (Christopher Yang) writes:
|> In <4057@isgtec.isgtec.com> robert@isgtec.com (Robert Osborne) writes:
|> 
|> >NOTE:  I've cross-posted to talk.politics.guns ...
|> 
|> >Ambone Gilles (ambone@imag.fr) wrote:
|> >: Please, don't confuse paintball guns and real firearms.
|> >: [...] Then people can easily think that
|> >: there is a large similarity between having a PB gun and a firearm.
|> 
|> >: I hate firearm but I enjoy paintball, because the spirit of the sport
|> >: is very accentuate on fun and not on any symbolic representation of
|> >: war, defense, or whatever like that.
|> 
|> What are you talking about? Are you denying that paintball is based
|> on a military style exercise?  Sure paintball has evolved to the point
|> where it is now a fun 'game', but so have shooting sports.

Either if paintball and military exercise have similar basics ideas,
I don't think it's very important. Not more important than relations
between monarchy and chess, even if in chess, the most important item
is the King, and higher is the guy in monarchy hierarchy, bigger is the
representating item. Common basic ideas, no direct relations.

|> I was a hard core paintball player before I took up action shooting,
|> and I saw many, MANY people who played for the sole purpose of racking
|> up 'kills'.  Their terminology, not mine. I played for hits and the fun
|> of hunting something that could hit back without worrying about seriously
|> hurting someone/something.

I'm agree with you. Fun is the most important rule of paintball, this is
why I try to show the difference between a wargame and paintball. It's
difficult because :
1) at paintball field, like you say it, many people are not playing the
same rules than me.
2) If you take a newbie to a field, without explain him the fun rule,
he would certainly take bad habits, and it would take a long to correct
his game.

|> I will no longer go back and play paintball on a regular basis.  My 
|> firearms ARE different from paintball guns, and require safe handling.
|> At any paintball field, you will see disastrous safe handling of their
|> guns.  In essence, they are teaching people unsafe gun handling skills.

On my opinion, Paintball sport isn't definitevly constructed.
Each time I convince a newbie to have fun, I help my camp. This
is why I think play paintball is important for people would search
fun. May be paintball will become unsecure, not fun. However, 50% of
people I meet search fun, may be paintball will split in two parts.

Have a good day,
	 Gilles.
___________________________________________________________________________
An plural first name for a singular man.
Xref: sparky rec.sport.paintball:1997 alt.sport.paintball:1318
From: bjs@neptune.phys.ufl.edu (Brian J. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball,alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Survial Zone 24 Hour Game (Feb 6,7)
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:03:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: eng.1993Jan26.130315.17660
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Florida Physics Department, CMT Group

Hey all paintballers.  

Its a new year and Survial Zone in Ocala Florida is kicking it off
to a good start with another world reknown (well maybe not) 24 Hour
Game.  This is one of those Big Games we are expecting 200+ players
at of to date, and I can promise you a good time.  The game will be
held starting at high noon on Feb 6 (Sat) and end at high noon Feb 7.

This is a full moon night and should be great visability during the
night.  So if you live in the South East come and join us for fun.

Cost is $40.00 includes (Dinner and Breakfast)
Paint will be selling for $100.00 case of 2500.

If you have any questions give Mark Blood a call at 1-904-821-1722, or
send me some E-mail and I hope to see ya there.

Bjs	Team POSSE


-- 

Brian J. Smith           Systems Manager CMT Group   Email: bjs@phys.ufl.edu
Department of Physics	    260 Williamson Hall      Fax:     (904) 392-0524 
University of Florida 	   Gainesville, FL 32611     Voice:   (904) 392-5339
From: john@kennel.FIDONET.ORG (John Hamilton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: ANTI PAINTBALLERS???
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 22:34:02 PST
Organization: Fido's Kennel, Cupertino CA

Friday January 22 1993 15:02, Robert Osborne wrote to All:

 RO> Anything that can fire a .68 calibre projectile at 450+ fps *IS* a
 RO> firearm.  If you put an aluminum alloy ball, marble or ball bearing in
 RO> a paintball gun, cranked your gun up as high as it would go, and fired
 RO> at a sheet of plywood, you would quickly demonstrate this to yourself.
 RO> (Warning: don't try this at home, kids!)

Thank goodness you are wrong. Otherwise, I'd need an FFL to buy them for
the store, and you'd need to wait 7 days and have your background checked
before you could pick yours up. By the way, a ball bearing at 450 fps will
not kill unless it strikes the skull just so, and even then, its unlikely.
A .22 short has far more inertial mass when it strikes than this theoretical
ball bearing.

John

--  
John Hamilton                  uucp: amdahl.com!kennel!john
Hamilton Hobbies               internet: john@f8.n143.z1.fidonet.org
Paintball Supplies             arpa: john@kennel.FIDONET.ORG
Telephone (408) 252-4872       Fax (408) 257-0764
From: coburn@informix.com (David Coburn)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: F-1 vs. F-2?
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:49:12 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Originator: coburn@puma

Has anybody tried out the new F2 Illustrator?  Any better than the F1?  I'm
getting ready to buy my first gun, and my brother in law is trying to
convince me to get one or the other.  So far, it's the only gun I've tried
out (I'm somewhat new to this), and I plan on trying some others before I
buy.  Recomendations, anybody?

Thanks,

David Coburn                                 coburn@informix.com
Informix Software, Inc.                    ...uunet!infmx!coburn
=========================================================================
Any opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of Informix 
(or for that matter, anybody else).
=========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: cranesp@eng.auburn.edu (Stephen P. Crane)
Subject: Re: What are the best weapons?
Reply-To: cranesp@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:32:35 GMT

In my opinion, the VM-68 (formerly PMI III) is the best semi-automatic paintgun.  Mine never breaks balls and now you can get a stock one for about $235.  I never have any problems with mine!!

Stephen Crane
Team: Auburn Express
Auburn University
Auburn, AL

cranesp@eng.auburn.edu

Xref: sparky rec.sport.paintball:1968 talk.politics.guns:27083
From: cyang@unixg.ubc.ca (Christopher Yang)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: ANTI PAINTBALLERS???
Date: 23 Jan 93 22:50:35 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

In <4057@isgtec.isgtec.com> robert@isgtec.com (Robert Osborne) writes:

>NOTE:  I've cross-posted to talk.politics.guns ...

>Ambone Gilles (ambone@imag.fr) wrote:
>: Please, don't confuse paintball guns and real firearms.
>: [...] Then people can easily think that
>: there is a large similarity between having a PB gun and a firearm.

>: I hate firearm but I enjoy paintball, because the spirit of the sport
>: is very accentuate on fun and not on any symbolic representation of
>: war, defense, or whatever like that.

What are you talking about? Are you denying that paintball is based
on a military style exercise?  Sure paintball has evolved to the point
where it is now a fun 'game', but so have shooting sports.
I was a hard core paintball player before I took up action shooting,
and I saw many, MANY people who played for the sole purpose of racking
up 'kills'.  Their terminology, not mine. I played for hits and the fun
of hunting something that could hit back without worrying about seriously
hurting someone/something.

I will no longer go back and play paintball on a regular basis.  My 
firearms ARE different from paintball guns, and require safe handling.
At any paintball field, you will see disastrous safe handling of their
guns.  In essence, they are teaching people unsafe gun handling skills.
If John Q Public is going to see this behaviour and extrapolate it
to firearms owners, then I want no part of it.

Flame away, Paintball fanatics...
DVC
Chris
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: bjs@neptune.phys.ufl.edu (Brian J. Smith)
Subject: Re: IRONMNAN on MotoX Armor
Organization: University of Florida Physics Department, CMT Group
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 00:04:24 GMT

>
>   David is absolutely right. I've owned my Vents Predators with OTG
>Single Lens for about 3 months now. These Vents are by far the best
>protection and visibility available. Yes, I've tried them all.
>

I wear Vents, and would never wear anything else in play.  I have had balls
bounce off the head armor, I have never had any fogging.  And I have played in
90 deg weather, 100% hum, with a slight drizzel coming down.  Heck the
people with the CrossFire with the CrossWind were fogging.  Nothing with
Vents.  Their Motto should be	"Vents Don't Fog".  It is well worth the
65 or 70 bucks you pay.  You buy anything less and you will be buying
Vents later on.  And if you think the the JT way is to go add up the
costs of JT Thermal Goggles, CrossFire, CrossWind, and compare it to the
price of Vents OTG Thermals.  As for Scott, well if you like cheap plastic
that breaks all the time feel free to waste your money there.

Bjs


-- 

Brian J. Smith           Systems Manager CMT Group   Email: bjs@phys.ufl.edu
Department of Physics	    260 Williamson Hall      Fax:     (904) 392-0524 
University of Florida 	   Gainesville, FL 32611     Voice:   (904) 392-5339
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball