HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: [sci.psychology] NLP, Smithsonian delirium
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 23:14:41 GMT

A repost from sci.psychology:

From: dab@ism.isc.com (David A. Butterfield)
Subject: Re: NLP, Smithsonian delirium
Date: 10 Sep 1992 22:14:34 GMT

JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com writes:
>"20th Century psychologists believed that there was a spiritual relation
>between the foot print and the mind.  Artifacts discovered show that
>these early psychologists felt that by walking on annointed pieces of
>paper, sometimes referred to as "squares" (see pythagorean claims of psycho-
>geometrical implications for objects), people were able to mind meld and
>occasionally cure phobias in minutes.  Honest."

"Because these claims were generally viewed as preposterous, they
received little serious attention for over three decades.  By early
in the 21st century, however, the incidence of these `treatments'
being reported, by patients, as having beneficial results became
so high that serious Scientific Study was initiated.  The 20th
century designers of the treatments had discovered a number of
useful models and effective techniques, but had not formed any
formal scientific theory to explain why they worked."

"We now know, of course, a great deal more about the mechanisms by
which these sometimes rather strange rituals are able to effect
changes in the thinking and behavior of individuals treated by them.
Indeed, our current theories, particularly Metaphor Theory (1) are
able to explain a great deal about why more traditional psycho-
thereputic models and techniques worked, even though their theories
sometimes seemed to contradict each other."

"Briefly, Metaphor Theory explains how deep cognitive models can
be represented and manipulated using conscious, metaphorical models.
A subject (or his therepist) identifies a (possibly nonconscious)
cognitive model that he wishes to change.  He then builds an
association between that internal model and some other metaphorical
model that he is already able to manipulate.  (Often the metaphorical
model is some contrived manipulation of physical objects.)  Once
the association between the two models has been established in the
subject's mind, he then makes the desired change to his internal
model by making the analogous change in his metaphorical model.
The mechanism by which the mind translates the changes made to the
metaphorical model back into the internal model is not yet fully
understood."

"(1) Fritz, Dubaldi K. "The Structure and Editing of Cognitive
     Entities", MIT Press, June 2017"
-- 
                     Vote for *anybody* but Quayle!
From: mshute@cs.man.ac.uk (Malcolm Shute)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Deja Vu
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:04:40 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <1992Sep11.043842.14923@qiclab.scn.rain.com> sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley) writes:
>i tend to favor the idea of genetic memory. i've had lots of deja vu
>[Interesting description and theory deleted]

It's an interesting theory... but you (or someone else) would have to find
a workable mechanism for how the information got there before it could become
credible.

Suppose that you, one day, identified one of these scenes as being from
the Civil War, and according to your theory, it was an image that had
directly occurred to your Great-Great-[etc]-Grand-Father/Mother.

The problem is... how did that image get from an encoding in your ancestor's
neural net, to an encoding in his/her DNA?

In fact, it would not be necessary to show that there is a mechanism for sending
messages to every cell in his/her body, to overwrite all copies of his/her DNA.
It would only be necessary to show that there is a mechanism for messages (e.g.
image data) to be sent from his/her brain to his/her gametes (or, even just to
one... and as luck would have it, this was the gamete that went on to become
your Great-Great-[etc minus one]-Grand-Father/Mother).  Unfortunately, I am not
aware that even this channel exists.


As a second point...
Suppose that such a mechanism were to be found...
Suppose that your DNA really did contain several 'memories' from your ancestors'
brains.  You say that these images occur to you when you go into a trance when
you are painting... presumably, then, they would more than likely also be occuring
to you in your dreams (and you are not necessarily aware of them).

If not, you would have to offer a reason why your dreams do not have access to
the same off-line information that your trance state does;

If so, on the other hand, in the N years that you have been alive on this
planet, you must have run through these DNA memories several times, in the
course of your dreams.  In which case, we would find it hard to be able to
get you to distinguish between your claiming that you were seeing an image
from your ancestor's memory, and you claiming that you were seeing an image
from the memory of one of your dreams (which in turn came from... etc).


Just my thoughts on the subject.
--

Malcolm SHUTE.         (The AM Mollusc:   v_@_ )        Disclaimer: all
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,alt.non.sequitur
From: karttu@mits.mdata.fi (Antti Karttunen)
Subject: Appropriateness
Reply-To: choy@skorpio.usask.ca, karttu@mits.mdata.fi
Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:06:47 GMT

choy@skorpio.usask.ca asks a question in sci.lang (article <1992Sep2.195936.20959@access.usask.ca>):
>The number of possible things to say at any moment is infinite, but
>one can say only one thing at a time. Is there an algorithm or a
>set of rules to tell what to say?
>
>Sincerely,
>Ignorant

I presume that you have the answer.

Hopefully,
-- 
Antti Karttunen       --  $B%"%s%C%F%#!!%+%k%C%H%%%M%s(J  (et{ty|t|n)
karttu@mits.mdata.fi  --  Apatheist, although not particularly proud of it.
From: murphyg@Software.Mitel.COM (Gary Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Deja Vu
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:36:56 GMT
	<MURPHYG.92Sep2150330@murphyg.Software.Mitel.COM>
	<92247.160039II70038@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Organization: Applications Software II, MITEL Corporation, Kanata, Ontario,
	Canada
In-reply-to: II70038@MAINE.MAINE.EDU's message of 3 Sep 92 20:00:39 GMT

In article <92247.160039II70038@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> II70038@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
(Jonathan A. Kimball) most graciously writes:-) ...

   As I said above, Gary Murphy's 'certainty' explanation is interesting, but
   here is one problem I have with it:  My general experience of deja-vu is
   something like, "Wait a minute!  Has this happened before?????????(not very
   certain at all:))"  So I guess I would change his theory by saying that
   rather than a feeling certainly we have a feeling of recognition.
   (Obvious right?)  Where I agree is that this feeling may be mistriggered and
   the brain must produce an explanation for it.

Thank you for your encouragement, although I must confess the posting of
the "double-echo" seizure effect was one of my favourites: it didn't
address how we can _tell_ deja vu when it occurs, but it gives a
plausible reason for _when_ it occurs.  I do wonder how this was
discovered and if the researchers also found they could induce the
feeling by brain stimulation or bio-feedback.

One of the results I found from a Morita journal exercise (listing
feelings along side the behaviours) was to notice a difference between
what I was _feeling_ and my _interpretation_ of what I was feeling; only
the latter was reliably linked to the set and setting.  This can lead us
to a great deal of confusion when we try and compare philosophies ;-).
I would still say, to my own experiential point of viewing, 'certainty'
weighting is where I get my 'recognition'; I seem to know in advance of
remembering whether I should or should not bother trying to retreive the
image.

I also know of some hard data on this, but the references are buried in
my soon-to-be-relocated files (convenient excuse, patent pending).
These are the studies of reaction times in recognition, which one study
looking at children and adults doing arithmatic, found evidence our
forcing the brain to do logic is perhaps more recognition than
computation.  If I ask, "Is 7 times 8 equal to 55?", the reaction-time
is longer than if I substitute 55 with 3006.  Is this because
'certainty' feelings based on the subjective 'weights' of the numbers
tell us not to bother with searching for the recollection?  In school
days, I loved multiple-choice because I would exploit the 'certainty'
function to eliminate a lot of choices and then return to try and find
the 'most recognizable' options; ask Holmes said, eliminate the
impossible and what is left, however improbable, is the truth ;-).

How _do_ you get subjects to sit for $5/hr until they have a Deja Vu you
can measure on the EEG? :-)

--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - Gary.Murphy@software.mitel.COM - (613) 592-2122 x3709
Do you think you can take over the universe and improve it? - Lao-tzu
Xref: sparky alt.consciousness:446 sci.psychology:3663 alt.sexual.abuse.recovery:5984
From: murphyg@Software.Mitel.COM (Gary Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,sci.psychology,alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Zen, NLP and MPD
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:31:13 GMT
Reply-To: garym@maya.isis.org
Followup-To: sci.psychology
Organization: Applications Software II, MITEL Corporation, Kanata, Ontario,
	Canada


After reading Gary Trujillo's comments on his dream (in
alt.consciousness) and his thoughts on the arrow of time and living life
from now, I thought I might mention some relevant articles in the fall
issue of "The Quest", published by the Theosophical Society.  The issue
is more or less devoted to the question "Who is 'I'?"

Two articles may be of particular interest to readers of
alt.consciousness, sci.psychology and alt.sexual.abuse.recovery and the
themes that have occured in these groups over the summer: Zen practice,
Neural-linguistic Programming, and Multiple Personality Disorder.  One
article deals with MPD as viewed from other cultures, drawing on
Buddhist ideas (there is no 'I', we are all sometimes this, sometimes
that) and traditions such as the Kabbalist and Yogic teachings which
assume the 'personality' is by definition multiple.  This has prompted
to my wife (a certified MPD) to lament the loss of her 'specialness' and
take a second look at her past-life and alter-personality experiences.

The second article of note (and this is a blatent plug for my
Morita/Naikan teacher, Ven. Joan Shikai Woodward, the author of this
article) compares the 2600 year old tradition of Zen (she is the Godo Ni
--- master of instruction --- of the Ottawa temple) with the twenty-year
'tradition' of Neuro-linguistic Programming (Joan was trained by John
Grinder); the gist of the article is to illustrate how Zen practice
begins where NLP teachings end.  To relate this to MPD, from her
sessions with Joan, my wife has said she believes the path to
integration is Mindfulness; she now sits in daily Shinjin practice and
seems much improved in her ability to handle everyday life.

If you would like further information on Shinjin practice or
Constructive Living (Morita/Naikan methods), I would be happy to provide
whatever answers I can and I can be reached at the email address in the
'reply-to' field of this message (garym@maya.isis.org).  If you would
like to contact Joan directly, you can send me e-mail and I will be
happy to relay your messages or send you her mailing address; Joan is
also available for seminars, lectures and workshops.

--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - Gary.Murphy@software.mitel.COM - (613) 592-2122 x3709
     True understanding is actual practice itself -- Shunryu Suzuki 
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: adrothst@athena.mit.edu (Andrew D Rothstein)
Subject: Re: Deja Vu
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:46:11 GMT


The theory that I have heard is that the timing (due to a chemical inbalance?) of the brain is
disrupted, so that the sensory inputs are routed first to the sort-term memory, then to the
cognitive faculties, instead of the other way around.  Hence it sort of seems like you are
remembering the events because the signals are coming from the memory part of your brain and not
directly from the sensory inputs.


I have had deva-vu of having deva-vu (feeling like I remember being in this situation and having
felt deva-vu in the past) - anyone else out there had this?  


-- 
Andy Rothstein			"If you want to kiss the sky,
adrothst@athena.mit.edu		you'd better learn how to kneel" - U2

*****************************************************************
The views expressed herein are mine own and do not necessarily 
reflect the opinions and beliefs of MIT
****************************************************************
From: beran@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Beran)
Subject: NMR PROGRAM REQUEST 
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 05:53:38 GMT

In article <LCL.92Sep8233038@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu> lcl@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu writes:
>
>            FUNCTIONAL NEUROIMAGING: Looking at the Mind
>                An International Symposium sponsored by
>           the Massachusetts Biomedical Research Corporation
>             the National Foundation for Brain Research and
>      the Massachusetts General Hospital Department of Radiology
>
>Back Bay Hilton, Boston, MA.  Nov. 5 & 6, 1992
>
>Functional neuroimaging is the application of instruments to view the 
>changes in physiological state which accompany the work of the brain. It is 
>also a window into a deeper understanding of the interaction of the mind 
>and the organism which supports it. By assembling together leaders in the 
>development of that understanding, the symposium, _Functional Neuroimaging: 
>Looking at the Mind_ will provide a forum for considering whether the 
>boundaries of physiology and consciousness are impenetrable, or if with the 
>tools of functional neuroimaging we are approaching a watershed of 
>epistemology.
>
>Topics include:
>
>___Instrumentation for Functional Neuroimaging___
>What limits do the tools available to us impose, both on a technological
>level and in terms of our filtered perceptions?
>
>___The Brain in Health and Disease___ 
>Mapping brain disease based on functional abnormalities through
>functional neuroimaging
>
>___Human Sensation and Motor Control___
>Characterizing the response of the brain to sensation, and tracing the
>activity backwards to look at the physiological states which presage our
>movements and our speech.
>
>___Imaging of Cognitive Function___
>We can now begin to explore the physiological correlates of sophisticated
>behaviors, from music and math to the background processes which give
>answers seemingly from nowhere.  Do we handle the components of a complex
>task in serial, or parallel?
>
>
>The attendance fee of $200 includes all meals, a reception, and a tour of
>the MGH-NMR center.  Attendance will be strictly limited and handled on a
>first come, first served basis.
>
>FOR FURTHER INFORMATION:
>
>For a detailed program of the conference, either check the posting in
>news.announce.conferences, send email to lcl@cs.bu.edu, or simply reply to
>this posting with "NMR PROGRAM REQUEST" in the subject line.  For other
>inquiries, please contact:
>
>
>FUNCTIONAL NEUROIMAGING CONFERENCE             or, by e-mail:
>MGH Dept. of Radiology                         mcohen@nmr-r.mgh.harvard.edu
>Fruit Street
>Boston, MA 02114
>
>(617) 726-8395
>FAX (617)726-7422
>--
>Lisa Caroline Lewis   		    Our country, right or wrong.  
>lcl@csa.bu.edu      -or-	    When right, to be kept right; 
>lcl@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu     when wrong, to be put right.
>                  	             - Carl Schurz, January 17, 1872


Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,alt.psychoactives
From: sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley)
Subject: Re: Deja Vu
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 04:38:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.123531.22967@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> S_TITZ@iravcl.ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz) writes:
>What causes Deja-vu experiences?
>
>5. More exotic explanations could feature memories from a past life or
>some nonhuman force manipulating our mind, among others.

i tend to favor the idea of genetic memory. i've had lots of dej vu
experiences and since i've been doing shamanic journey work and self
hypnosis, i've found that i've been having more of them. they seem to
occur most of all when i'm working on an art project and i'm totally
focused on what i'm doing but not really "thinking' about it. my hands
are just doing the work. i "see" images or scenes that i can't
recognize as something familiar to this particular lifetime, but the
perspective seems to be through my eyes. it's hard to explain. of
course, it may very well be a memory from this life that i am not able
to identify, one buried and forgotten until a moment comes when i'm
"spacing out", but some of the images are quite specific and i am
quite certain i haven't been to/seen that particular place as far as i
can recall. of course, the frustrating thing is, that as soon as i am
aware of it happening, it stops!! i see my mind as a sort of video
tape which records everything; some things i can bring out at will,
others are triggered by outside stimuli. others again, like the above
experiences, are also on the tape only to be accessed during altered
states of conciousness. i think that as well as passing down physical
characteristics and certain traits or gifts - such as an artistic
ability - it is also possible to have memories passed down from my
ancestors. i think it is encoded in the dna, but i don't know enough
about that, so i won't embarass myself ;-). i also think genetic
memory is an explanation for past life experiences. 

anyway, some of my experiences were quite startling and so i talked to
a psychologist/therapist about them. she explained about different
levels of conciousness - alpha, theta states etc and various long word
s that i can't recall (maybe i should do some art work and se if it
comes back ;-)). if you're interested, i'll find out more about her
theories. 

as an aside, i have a friend who's husband is epileptic and does the
most amazing paintings during seizure sometimes. they're like scenes
from another world.he says that when he sees them; often for the first
time after the seizure, it's like a deja vu. he feels he's *been* to
these places. 

sally

an explanation for past life experiences. 
>Any comments?
>
>[Note the Followup line]
>
>MfG,
>        Olaf
>-- 
>Olaf Titz - comp.sc.student - Univ of Karlsruhe - s_titz@iravcl.ira.uka.de -
>uknf@dkauni2.bitnet - praetorius@irc - +49-721-60439 - did i forget something?
>What high-level language should one use for system programming? The only
> reasonable candidate today is PL/I. - Fred Brooks (1975)
From: jones@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Mark Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Sight&Sound Machines
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:36:59 GMT
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA


I came across an article by Peter Ochiogrosso called "Brain Cocktails" in
Forbes FYI last week:
	"Dark glasses with flashing lights and headphones
	attached to consoles with numbered buttons promise to give
	your brain a tune up" or "guide your mind into a state of deep
	relaxation, enhancing creativity, accelerating learning and improving
	levels of concentration"

This devices seem to work by putting the brain into an alpha (relaxed
creative) or theta("twilight learning" ) state quckly, "without even
learning a mantra". The trick is thought to be brainwave entrainment.
This makes you susceptible to suggestions given via a self improvement
tape.

The article reviews some of the devices and tapes on the market.

Has anybody tried one of these machines with a self improvement tape?
I am trying to decide if there is anything to this. 
Ochiogrosso seems to have done his homework, having tried many models,
and quotes a fair amount of medical opinion in his article.

Mark Jones
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,talk.newage.religion,alt.drugs,alt.cyberspace,alt.cyberpunk
From: pacoid@wixer.cactus.org (Paco Xander Nathan)
Subject: Reality Benchmark - bOING-bOING magazine
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 20:34:13 GMT

Reality gets hacked.  Period.

Some journalist once remarked that "virtual reality" was just "like
electronic LSD"..  VR aficionados replied "VR doesn't have as good 
of a price/performance ratio."

bOING-bOING Magazine therefore would like establish a benchmark for 
reality by statistically studying those price/performance ratios...  
And you're being asked to participate.  Here's what we need to know, 
in the sacred name of Fringe Science:

Q1:  What do you use to tweak your head?  (answers will be held 
stricly confidential, since our current set of replies include refs
to brain surgery, use of /dangerous/ chemicals and other nifties 
that could be felonies in several states)

Q2:  How far out of reality do you get?  0-100%  (consider 100% 
being when aliens drag you off planet in a locked white suit)

Q3:  How long, per session, does this last?

Q4:  How often do you partake of this, per week?

Q5:  How much does it cost?  (hey, EVERYTHING costs..)


So far, public radio seems to be winning.  Of course that /can't/ be 
quite true, so let's get weird folks..  What are you really up to on 
the weekends????  Chem, Flesh, Neuroelectronics, TV?

We'll develop a model for the benchmark based on your answers.  It's 
going to basically look like a price-point curve for "reality immersion".

Please send survey replies to:

     pacoid@well.sf.ca.us

And, by the way, this is a multiple guess survey, so you /can/ submit 
multiple entries, for the really /busy/ bodies out there...  

Thank you very much.

bOING-bOING Magazine - the world's greatest neurozine...
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: probst@selkirk.sfu.ca (Scott Probst)
Subject: Re: Deja Vu
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 22:21:53 GMT

In article <92247.160039II70038@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> II70038@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Jonathan A. Kimball) writes:
>I've just read this deja-vu thread.  Gary Murphy's 'certainty' theory is
>one of the most interesting to me, but how's this for an idea:
>(a couple of explanations were similar but not quite) The sense of recognition
>is the result of a 'match' between the current event and the, just made,
>memory of that event.  There is normally a mechanism to prevent this
>premature recognition from happening but when it fails we experience deja-vu.

hmmm. it seems that since normal memory is a constructive process (or so it
would seem), and so is perception (rather than a simple video-camera type of
event), that there is plenty of scope for the two (re)constructive processes
to come up with results that are just too close to each other for comfort.
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: mittag@trout.megatek.uucp (Larry Mittag)
Subject: Re: CD-ROM article.
Reply-To: megatek!mittag@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:14:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.182147.22803@walter.bellcore.com> gregg@base.bellcore.com (Victor Scott Gregg) writes:
>
>I need to take exception with one point made in that article.
>Specifically, they state that ONLY CD-ROM Drive that use a 
>Sony Mechanism are Photo-CD compatible (single session only).
>
>This is repeated in the table of summary information.
>
>I am sure from what I have read that the NEC 74/84 series IS
>Photo-CD capable.
>
>Can anyone in the know confirm or refute the information in the 
>MacWorld article?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Victor 

I just called Kodak the other day and got a list of the drives that
are compatible. It is as follows:

	Magnavox CDD461
	Sony CDU-6205
	     CDU-535
	NEC CDR-73
	    CDR-37

The NEC CDR-83 is probably OK, too, but he said there were
problems with the NEC CDR-74 and CDR-84 drives. He did not
elaborate as to what the problems were. I found this very
disappointing, since I had planned on getting a CDR-84. I may
have to rethink.

Larry Mittag
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom