From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Is Japan crowded?
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:31:10 GMT

In article <7506@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert) writes:

>I read some comparisons (somewhere... I forgot) that gave
>some perspective in relation to the US. It said that the
>total land space of Japan was roughly equal to the state
>of Montana. It also said that about half of the population
>(maybe 55,000,000 ?) live in an area on the east coast
>between the interior mountains and the Pacific Ocean 
>roughly about the size of Conn. This is - no doubt -
>as crowded as a cookie dropped on an anthill.

The Chiba, Tokyo, Saitama, Iibaraki, and Kanegawa areas have a total population
of 40 million, with an area roughly the size of New England. Also, I believe
that more than half the total population (about 70% as of 4 years ago) live in
the plains area between the Osaka and Tokyo areas. That's about 80 million
people in an area about the size of the stretch of land between San Francisco
and Santa Barbera, stretching inland to the middle of the San Joaquin valley.
That is, not doubt, very crowded.

>Michael's stats also listed Japan as having only about
>a 11% greater population density than Massachusetts
>(was it 822 vs. 741 per sq mi ?). Having covered about
>all of Massachusetts at one time or another, I would
>judge the population density to be roughly equivalent
>to some of the rural areas in Japan I have visited.
>In this case, I can't agree that the stats give the
>whole story, because extreme crowding in the Tokyo
>area is in fact a reality that does affect Japanese 
>thinking in many subtle ways.

Out side of Honshu's Kanto-Kansai hub, what passes for rural is much different.
My wife's family is from Kochi, and I spent a lot of time in the Tohoku and
Hokkaido regions of Japan (never been to Kyushu). While Kochi, Sendai, Sapporo,
etc, are somewhat crowded, those rural areas are in fact relatively sparsely
populated. Also, in northern Iibaraki, there is a great deal of land available
for homes, cities, etc. There IS land available, it is simply not being used.

>I can agree with Mike that the crowding is not only due
>to lack of space with too many people, but I can't agree
>that the crowding, for whatever reasons, has such a
>small affect as he implies.

I don't think he is saying that. I believe he is saying that that cannot be
THE REASON the Japanese are so polite, so conformist, so whatever. I believe
you address his point precisely with your observation below:

>(one note about politeness: Japanese people in the very
>crowded areas are - by even east Coast standards - if not
>often oblivious, then even sometimes downright rude in
>crowds. The people in the rural areas that are less
>crowded are much more polite and thoughtful. So crowding
>doesn't seem to be the source of politeness at all.)

Kind of a sad (if that's the right word) aside. When I was first in Tokyo
in 1986, people at that point were not seemingly as used to seeing foreigners/
whites/whatever. While they were fairly oblivious to each other, many of them
went out of their way to make eye contact or smile at me, etc. Just a couple
years later, when I returned to live, they started treating me much more like 
one of the crowd. Must be all those d*mn English teachers :-) However, let me
speak in defense of Sapporo. Those people are downright friendly to each other,
and I can remember seeing lots of people literally bumping into strangers on
a snowy Saturday night, starting a conversation and then heading off for a 
drink. Maybe Tokyo's just a strange place.

Mike
-- 
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