From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Scummy behavior of pagan males
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:27:03 GMT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:

> A Heartland Pagan Fesitval's posters consistently picture naked busty
> women and half-clothed men.  Why this standard?  Heartland also had
> problems last year with the behavior of several drunken men, including
> the sexual harassment of one participant.  In previous years the
> Skyclad area of the festival consisted half of skyclad participants
> and half of male gawkers who would set out chairs and stare at the
> women who passed by. 

Drunkenness at the festivals is getting to be a pain in the ass, isn't 
it? Seems so to me, anyway. 

Five years ago, at a festival like Starwood, the Long Dancer's could go 
on all night, working the fire and invoking. The people left around the 
fire after 2-3 am were utterly serious/joyous, turned on, kind and in 
touch. To finish the long dance with that type of group is a thrill that 
I cannot adequately voice.

For the past few years, the crowd of drinking males gathered to watch the 
dancing girls has been so thick that the Long Dancer's have been forced 
away from the fire. My friends, who've been doing the Long Dance together 
for the last ten years, now avoid the fire ring, hoping the tourists will 
leave before dawn. At least we can still drum and sing together.

Perhaps this is just a natural byproduct of paganisms growing numbers, 
popularity, and the rapidly growing segment of new, untrained, unread, 
inexperienced pagans. 

The drinking men look so sad and desperate and lonely. You'd think they'd 
never seen a tit before. When i think of them I'm reminded of the 
tremendous sexual pain and longing that men sometimes feel in this 
tortured society of ours. 

Well, maybe some will argue that sexual pain and longing is a natural and 
good thing, and that joy in watching bodies is healthy paganism. Maybe 
so, maybe so-- all I know is that it was a different scene, five years 
ago.

> I can think of plenty more, these just leapt to mind as examples of
> men's scummy behavior both within and without our community.  I would
> be interested in hearing others examples of men's scummy behavior
> within the pagan community.   Or am I the only one who notices this
> stuff?  It has been said that men within the pagan community were
> different than men outside the community in their relations to women.
> I have said this is not very true.  What do others think?

I think it's fascinating to watch people's ego's being triggered off by 
your choice of words.

I think I've seen nearly as many female jerks as male jerks at the 
festivals-- though the females are more subtle, less grossly violent and 
directly abusive. But there's a lot of women 'playing the game' of war 
between the sexes, and a lot of men with torn hearts and egos. Is a 
broken heart worse or better than a stared-at-tit?

Just because there's a lot sex pain among both males and females doesn't 
mean, however, that the males have carte'blanche to act like crude 
idiots. I despise this "80's War between the Sexes" abusive male behavior 
as much as you do. I've seen a _huge_ amount of it among so called pagan 
men.

I don't know if this means men are scum. I think it means our community 
has a tremendous problem with denial and sex pain.

Later, Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan