From: "herb sutter" <herb.sutter@canrem.com>
Subject: dawkins/_the selfish
Reply-To: "herb sutter" <herb.sutter@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: talk
Date: 13 Sep 92 21:48:14 EST


In <p1j6n2o@fido.asd.sgi.com>, cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com (C.J. Silverio) writes:
>In article <6661@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, alanf@tekig6.PEN.TEK.COM writes:
>[about the JW redefinition of "pestilence"]
>
>|I've posed this problem of how the WTBTS misleads its readers to
>|several JWs, whose only response has been "I'll get back to you".
>|This is how they refuse to think critically.
>|Care to prove me wrong?
>
>Five days and no response.  Hmm.

I did reply a few days ago, but unfortunately I've got a long reply cycle
(about two weeks, as you can probably also see from THIS reply... sorry).
:-(  <frustrated sigh>

>Sometimes I wonder why I bother attempting to get through to
>JWs.  Superstitions & delusions like theirs are mostly harmless,
>after all.  What does it matter if some people believe silly
>things about the origin of life, about Bible translations, or
>about selling magazines door-to-door?  Or so I ask myself after
>a particularly fruitless attempt to get a JW to stop
>double-thinking.
>
>I guess I bother for two reasons:
>
>- To see something so manifestly false boastfully labelling
>  itself as "the Truth" offends me.
>- Some people *do* get hurt by the JWs.  People are misled by
>  the vicious practice of disfellowshipping into disowning their
>  families.  And more seriously, people die because they are
>  misled into refusing blood transfusions.

I appreciate your view on this, but I guess I just disagree based on
my own experience and research.  I've seen a lot of claims that
something or other is "manifestly false", and I've checked them out,
but I just haven't come to the same conclusion.

I think there's been a discussion about blood transfusions recently, but
if you're willing I'd be glad to participate in another one (I just came
in at the tail end of the last one).  Briefly, we feel this is a Biblical
command (e.g., Acts 5:28,29), and while some may claim that people die
from refusing blood transfusions, it should be equally clearly stated (in
order to avoid `data selection') that many people also die from accepting
blood transfusions.  Jehovah's Witnesses aren't against medical care; they
seek medical help and go to doctors and hospitals like anyone else.  But
we don't accept blood into our bodies because we feel this is God's law;
any other transfusions or non-blood procedures aren't objectionable (so,
yes, JWs do accept transfusions! just not of blood).

Disfellowshipping can be a sensitive subject for many people, but this is
the Scriptural direction.  I know personally how painful and difficult it
can be.  We certainly don't disfellowship people out of sheer
"viciousness" or for the fun of it; we honestly feel bound by the
Scriptural requirement to do so in places like 2 John 9-11, Acts 19:9,
Romans 16:17, 1 Corinthians 5:9-13, 2 Thessalonians 3:6, and others.

If you believe the Bible really doesn't support this, then I would be
grateful if you would prove to me that those Scriptures and others like
them do not really apply as forcefully as they certainly seem to.  If you
can show me from the Bible that the practice of disfellowshipping is not
commanded and is not supported, then I will certainly stop supporting it.
I mean that.  I'd like any feedback on this that you might have in mind
and I will certainly read it and think about it.  I'd also like you to
read those passages and think about them, and let me know how you feel.
Would you do that?

Thanks again for the reply, and sorry (again!) for my own tardiness.  If
nothing else, I'll get caught up in the first week of October.

Herb

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| Handyman's Guide to Science:                                                |
|     1. If it stinks, it's chemistry.                                        |
|     2. If it's green or it wiggles, it's biology.                           |
|     3. If it doesn't work, it's physics.                                    |
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