HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: How did you find soc.motss?
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:29:41 GMT

Nelson reflects and then asks:
 
> ObMotss: just went to my first gay bar all by myself. I was quite
> nervous, actually. And bored - I drank my drink, and left. How does
> one loiter?

  Isn't that covered in Mall-101? But seriously, after imbibing
in a cocktail to many, the ability to loiter is definite non-issue.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: LASAGA@corral.uwyo.edu (LASAGA)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Levi Strauss DEFUNDS Boy Scouts
Date: 10 Jan 1993 10:57:57 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



W. David Rohwer <rohwerwd@netcom.com> writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.165849.16524@samba.oit.unc.edu> 
>>Michael.Bohl@launchpad.unc.edu (Michael Bohl) writes: 
>>I just spoke with a customer service representative from Levi Strauss and
>>Co. concerning their defunding of the Boy Scouts of America.  I was not
>>certain I knew the reason so I asked their representative for an
>>explanation.  She said it was because,
>>                          
>>       "The Boy Scouts discriminate against atheists and homosexuals."
>>                                      
>>If you have an opinion on this matter (either side of the issue) you can
>>call                       
>>                          
>>               1-800-362-5377
>>                           
>>to let them know how you feel.                           

>     Put me on record for supporting Levi Strauss' action of defunding the
>Boy Scouts.  I will continue to purchase Levi's jeans.


I second that!  They deserve to be commended for their policies of
tolerance.  Send them a short letter or make a quick call to thank them,
if you can.  Below is an article (reprinted here without permission)
on this issue from _Deneuve_ (a national lesbian magazine), December, 1992:


"Button-Flies and Boy Scouts"

Levi Strauss and Co., makers of 501 button-fly and other jeans,
recently ended its financial support of the Boy Scouts of America to
show its opposition to the discriminatory Boy Scout ban on gay Scouts
and Scout Leaders.  Levi Strauss has supported many gay issues in the past; 
it has a strong anti-discrimination provision, same-sex domestic 
partnership benefits and advertises in gay and lesbian publications.
After Levi Strauss withdrew funding of the Boy Scouts, the American
Family Association launched a boycott of Levi's.  Counter that boycott and 
let Levi Strauss know that you support its decision.  Thank Levi Strauss
at 1-800-872-5384 or write 

Chairman Robert Haas
Levi Strauss & Co.
P.O. Box 7215
San Francisco, CA  94111

fax (415)544-3939.
From: yang@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Sherry Yang)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: MOW info wanted
Date: 7 Jan 1993 20:44:31 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: mist.cs.orst.edu

Hi, there were quite a few items posted recently on the net regarding the
March On Washington.  I thought I had saved them, but later discovered that
for some reason they didn't get saved.  If anyone has some information saved,
such as where to call for hotel reservations, etc. I would really appreciate 
getting them.  My email is:  yang@mist.cs.orst.edu

Thanks, 

Sherry
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 6 Jan 93 04:20:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan6.042009.8347
Organization: insert anything here

mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) wrote:

>> What a maroon. The only reason that LA moved theirs is
>> so that SF might reciprocate. Talk about giving an inch
>> and taking a mile. Somebody needs to educate this moron
>> that the gay world does *not* revolve around SF, much
>> as he might think it ought to.

>Nonsense!  We are at the epicenter of the known Universe!
>All things revolve around San Francisco!  Why, there isn't
>a day that goes by I am not made dizzy by the swirling 
>maelstrom of activity.  Perferdidious in the extreme to
>claim otherwise!  

	No dear - the dizziness is from cranial vacuosity.

	(Since himself is the only thing in the KILL file right now,
it's easy to see with trn where the killed posts are on the threads.
Having read Mike's response and seeing the filtered reply, I couldn't
resist...)

	I think that a lot of the GBLO*-community is starting to 
realize that we aren't revolving around SF.  While several factors
I think contribute to this, oine of them is the fact that other places
are catching up to and surpassing SF in the ability for queerfolk to
live openly and equally with their neighbors.  Frankly, neither SF
nor CA are trendsetters in the area of gay rights initiatives, nor
approaching equality with things like DP's, etc.  Having 
Silicon Valley has certainly helped: high tech has
been forging ahead in human realtions more than other areas of
big business, but even then when I think of companies that have
full-rights to motss spouses the first two places that come to
mind are Lotus and Ben&Jerry's, niether of which are anywhere NEAR
SF, CA or Melmouth.

	Stanford is definitely carrying the torch in academia...

	Back to Pride Parades... one idea being tossed around is
for a motss float in the NYC parade (my paws were quite tired marching
last year), I'd love to do one in Boston, but probably not this year.

	BTW I have the two Tyvek soc.motss banners that I had made for
the purposes of people using them in parades, at the MOW, and
of course at motss.cons.  I'd be willing to loan one out to sub-groups
if they promised to either mail it back home or sent it along to the next
group...

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: "latency" (was Re: US Schools Adding Lessons on Gay Life)
Organization: (getting there)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 14:18:16 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
 >As an example of something that *isn't* latency, I suggest
 >the interest our Cobra Woman seems to show in these details.
 >:-)

That's Cobra Woman aka Mongoose.  You know Mongooses, right?
We go after snakes.


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay men personals...
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:26:37 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <1993Jan6.031637.5579@athena.mit.edu> sun@athena.mit.edu (Tigua  
Alan Naghel Jackson) writes:

>  This is all secondary, though, to the reason why I'm
>  posting in the first place which is for white men to
>  consider: When placing an ad why say, 'GWM seeks same,
>  no fats no fems' when what you mean to say is, 'GWM seeks
>  <whatever> no colored, no fats, no fems...'?
>  
>  Of course, my version is 'racist.'  But I'm the only one
>  saying that...

Why is it "racist" to prefer one race over another in a sexual context?  
This makes no more sense than saying that a taste for men over women is  
sexist. 

Not wanting to "date" a person based on their race is very different from  
not liking or associating with them.

In a sexual context, physical characteristics are important. I, for  
example, am pretty much incapable of responding sexually to anyone that  
does not have facial hair. This immediately eliminates most asians from my  
love life, not on the basis of their race, but because few asian men have  
moustaches or beards.

"GWM seeks same" is more likely motivated by straighforward physical  
turnons than any latent antipathy towards blacks. I wouldn't take offense  
at it, nor would I shy away from anyone who was attracted to *because* of  
your race. 

I'd say that the set of men that are truly neutral with respect to race is  
actually fairly small. Love is not, and will never be, colorblind, and I  
see little point in worrying about the preferences of others.

-Anthony

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Gay-bashing (was: Re: Private...)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 23:22:57 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>I think using "gay-bashing" to mean "anything
>unpleasant bigoted straights might do to gays" weakens the term and
>robs it of much of its impact. If the term were to become used in this
>way, such that this became its accepted meaning, then people would
>tune it out; they'd think, "Well, I've had insults yelled at me, and I
>could cope."

certainly there is a point at which the term is
weakened, but stalking and yelling epithets fall
well in the category of gay-bashing.  epithets can
range from a simple "faggots!" yelled from a moving
automobile to a gay couple being surrounded and
aggressively harrassed, but even the "mild" form
of bashing can be very violent to the people being
bashed.  that most people in society don't realize
the emotional impact of those abused by epithets
says more about society's insensitivity and ignorance
than it does about whether or not the abused were
actually "bashed."

the key is that the people being yelled at decide
whether or not they're being bashed, not the people 
doing the yelling.  similarly, you can't make that
call of my situation any more than i can of yours.

>Gays, unlike almost every other persecuted minority, are regularly
>sought out and beaten simply for existing. We ought to reserve a term
>like "gay-bashing" for these violent crimes.

i believe that these bashers are booked on "assault"
or "homicide", but i don't know anyone who's received
a prison term for "gay-bashing."
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: BAR Manners in Boston....
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:11:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan5.201108.19840
Organization: insert anything here

mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>> Like I said before they do exist elsewhere --- I refuse to belive
>> there is any geographical dependency on people's abilty to handle
>> the [about darts] situation...

>  Does this apply to Bostonian's legendary driving abilities as well?

	Of course!  Do you realize how many years it
takes to perfect proper Bostonian driving form?!

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Glendale
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:57:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.012454.8865@oracle.us.oracle.com>, dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly) writes:
> In article <1993Jan8.171613.22010@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> >Doesn't it have the largest Armenian community outside of Yerevan?  Yum.
> 
> Racist!  :-)

  Gad, that angle hadn't even occurred to me. I thought he was talking
about the food...

		Mike, who really should get up there sometime
		      since it really *did* look like they
		      have all kinds of scrumptious places
		      to eat around that area...
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: atropos@netlab.cis.brown.edu (David O'Donnell)
Subject: Re: Colorado Replies
Organization: Enhanced Cybernetic Logic Operating Systems Group
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 07:11:07 GMT

In article <18301@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:

>I commend you for  answering them, but don't hold your breath waiting
>for these bozos to change because you read them the riot

No, I honestly don't expect any of them to change their opinions or whatever.
However, I -had- to write back. To not address them is to tacitly admit they
are right -- which they are NOT. I was also pretty effing pissed (as well as
surprised at the dunderheadedness of their workers). And, lastly, I did it
out of a possibly misplaced desire to at least TRY to do some educating.

--Dave
  atropos@netlab.cis.brown.edu
  Who? Me? Opinions? Oh, yeah... them. Well, they're mine...
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "In the Life"/Gay Comedian/Military Ban
Date: 9 Jan 1993 11:45:03 -0500
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, NJ, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp

In article <m0n9N9v-0000E4C@juts.ccc.amdahl.com> rich.bellacera@amail.amdahl.com writes:
>Three Queer queries ;-)

>1.  On Wednesday December 30th I caught the tail end of a show on Channel 9
>(KQED) that came on at 10:30pm.  It seems to be a gay positive variety show
>with some very serious supporters.  I wish to know more about this show and
>hope someone out there can inform me (and whomever else might be interested).

The associate director lives near me and we talk from time to time.
The charter is basicly a variety show (mostly comedy, some times news
and special reports) which draws from the "gay/lesbian circuit" of
performers.

>What I do know is that it apparently is only telecast once a month but I do
>not know where it is filmed and what the entire premise of "In The Life" is.
>Is it possible to get ahold of back episodes?  How long has it been running?

There is a pilot and 4 episodes.  The pilot was an hour long and really
bad (my friend will not loan copies of the video tape).  The others get
better by leaps and bounds.

The next show to air is hosted by one of the correspondents from
Entertainment Tonight (i.e. he is a "big name").  He first comes out,
then talks about being gay in the entertainment community.  (and then
prays that he can find work after coming out... just kidding)

PBS stations can choose to carry it or not carry it.  Check your
listings.  If they don't carry it SCREAM REALLY LOUD.  If they do,
don't miss it!

By the way, PBS seems to be pretty consistent with gay/les/bi shows
while "the networks" seem to have certain shows where one or two
episodes will have a "gay theme".  I think the next time a pledge drive
comes up I'm gonna send a bundle of money to PBS.  Heck, at least then
I'll get their listings sent to my house so I can look for when they're
showing IN THE LIFE each month! :-)

Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
Heros falling to the ground / like hell's magnet / pulls me down / on my knees
/ I try to please his eyes / his idol eyes. / Jerking motions won't revive him
/ mouth to mount resusitation / I just lay down beside him / and idolize.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Geography (was Capitalization, still dubious MOTSS content)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:12:26 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu


To Sim, Mara, and others interested in curious geography:

I understand the different regions of New York, as currently defined,
but there's an area which is arguably part of both New York as well as
New Jersey which I've not seen included.

Florida, south of I-4.

I grew up in northeast Florida, which (for all practical purposes) is
really southern Georgia.  Northwest Florida (Tallahassee and points
west) is really southern Alabama.

It's obvious that below a line running from Daytona to St. Pete that
what's "there" is the southern part of a Yankee state, but I've never
been able to tell which one.

Any guesses?

(Oh, and for the humor-impaired:  :-)

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Bar Etiquette: Further digression
Date: 9 Jan 93 03:26:05 GMT
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1993Jan8.180135.29601@athena.mit.edu> tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin) writes:
>this is not gravy - gravy is brown, this is a rue

goddamned yankee. You're lucky you didn't get hurt.

Nelson, who was genuinely surprised to find that not everyone ate
black-eyed peas on New Year's.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                Life in all its rich variety, do not falter
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson)
Subject: Re: The Crying Game SONG ? (NOT A SPOILER)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 07:37:51 GMT

I just got back from seeing this film, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.  I
second everything that others have said about it, especially the
remarks about not reading reviews before seeing it.

Yes, the Boy George song from the credits was produced by the Pet Shop
Boys.  They also played the Lyle Lovett version of "Stand By Your Man"
over the credits.  

--scoT



-- 
 ______  | Scot N. Gibson  | "At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-- |
 \    /  | Stanford Univ.  |  Almost, at times, the Fool."          |
  \  /   +-----------------+-------------+             - T.S. Eliot |
   \/    | prufrock@leland.stanford.edu  |--------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt)
Subject: Re: Austin, TX joins Colo. Boycott
Organization: The Flood Group, Inc.  Torrance, Ca.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 01:42:13 GMT

buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
| tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt) writes:
| 
| >buckmr@aix02.ecs.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
| >| A broader question, do all 9 cities that are boycotting Colorado have
| >| gay rights ordinances? I would presume YES.
| 
| >No. Atlanta, for one, does not. I heard the head of the Colorado
| >Tourist Board (who has an obvious agenda here) complaining that
| >it was awfully smug and hypocritical for Atlanta to be boycotting
| >Colorado when Denver, Boulder, Aspen all had enacted anti-
| >discrimination ordnances while Atlanta never has. 
| 
| Hmm, well then the obvious question is WHY NOT? Atlanta has one of the
| largest gay populations in the country. Are they politically active?

I was repeating what the head of the CO Tourist Board said
during an interview on NPR. Someone here pointed out that
the CTB head has his facts wrong, and that Atlanta *does*
in fact have an anti-discrimination ordinance. I should be
more careful when repeating someone else's claims.

I have this irresistable urge to point out to Ron that he
can easily check on Atlanta's gay-rights-ordinance status
by looking in the Queer Resource Directory, available by
anonymous FTP at nifty@andrew.cmu.edu.... :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

-- 
Tom Chatt                        \   Don't take offense, take action.
Internet: tom@flood.com           \    Speak up. When we remain silent,
UUCP: ...!uunet!flood!tom        / \     we oppress ourselves.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one)
Subject: Re: crabs (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:17:33 GMT

In article <C0qD4s.BG6@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno) writes:
>>*I* just sent my bear-slave trudging up to the drug store on my behalf.  
>>Since it was me that gave the crabs to him, having caught them from God  
>>knows who, I'm surprised he didn't rebel.
>
>Well, just what sort of thank you note would Miss Manners find appropriate 
>for such a gift?
>
>   Miss Thing,
>
>   Imagine my delight at awaking this morning to discover your
>   thoughtful gift.  And what an assortment of sizes and colors --
>   why, you must have looked *everywhere*!

Must have done a bit more than looked everywhere :-)

So when are they going to make full body condoms for crab protection?
-- 
------  Linux, Religion, and electronic shopping all in one place!
\    / Repent of Bean eating, MS-DOS, OS/2, and windows NT, no sales man
 \  / will hassle you, no priest will sacrifice you. Free 9600 baud download.
  \/ Call the Virtual World Information Systems BBS at 508-793-9568
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: More thoughts on racism, etc.
Date: 9 Jan 93 10:54:26 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <TIM.93Jan8141250@ear-ache.mit.edu>,
tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson) writes:
> There's too much baggage regarding the racial issue
> to equate it to the others.
> 
> I'm sure there are exceptional individuals who've reached some kind of
> nirvana regarding race, and, of course, the above doesn't apply to
> them.  I'm sure it's just their _preference_ when they say GWM seeks
> same, not a multitude of factors that began before any of us were born.
> For the rest of us, improving our attitude on race is like coming out:
> there's ample opportunity to practice it every day.

Hallelujah!

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"The best way to find something you've lost is to buy a replacement."
-- Ann Landers
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Costner plans Colorado Filming
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:21:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.025810.11140@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> In article <1i2guvINN426@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
> [about places to ski]
> >Oregon could also certainly use the support after so many there went
> >out on a limb to defeat Measure 9.
> 
> And if you do come to Oregon to ski, consider staying at Timberline
> lodge. It's a beautiful place on Mt. Hood, an old WPA project, it's
> right there at the best skiing on Mt. Hood, *and* Timberline took out
> a half page front section ad against Measure 9 back in October. I
> think it is a pretty expensive place, though.

  And don't forget Mt Bachelor. Bachelor isn't even that expensive
(especially for me since I just stay at my folks place south of
Skunge -er- Sun River). You can get motels in Bend for $20-$30 and
lift tickets cost $31/day. There's also tons of area for X-country
around there; you can x-ski at the mountain for tracked trails, but
we just skiied off of my folks front porch and had fun for $0.
  It's also quite spectacularly beautiful there. On a clear day from
the top of Bachelor you can see the Three Sisters, Broken Top, Jefferson, 
Thielson and Scott (down by Crater Lake) and, occasionally, Hood.
The entire Cascade Lakes loop is visible as well as Newbury Crater,
and the Ochacco's.
  The gay life in Bend is a bit iffy though (though my Damron's guide
claims that there is *something* there...). However, I was sort of
looking around for signs of the fallout of Measure 9 since its
defeat, and basically saw nothing except for one lone poster in
a farmers pasture around Redmond (or was it Madras?) which had
a light bulb encasing OCA|KKK with the word "Think" written
above it. I was heartened.


		Mike, who just returned from the white, white north
		      braving the dread blizzard through the Siskiyou's
		      and was rewarded with a breathtaking view of
		      Shasta in all its glory.
From: tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: mise en scene
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:39:03 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:

   Hon, it may be that you've just demuffined, but it would
   appear that you've had your queer card for some time now.

As long as I can remember.

   [as the camera pulls back; cf. the final scene in _Les 
   Parapluies de Cherbourg_ -- music swells and fades].

Unfortunately, I was reared _sans_ French.  (Please let it be French.)
What is _mise en scene_?  And who are _Les Parapluies de Cherbourg_?

--
Tim Wilson
tim@ear-ache.mit.edu
mit-eddie!mit-athena!tim