HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish)
Subject: Re: NeXT to ship128MB EO's as replacements for 3.5" drives--Nice thought?
Reply-To: sanguish@digifix.com
Organization: Digital Fix Development
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:43:30 GMT

Moose@nosc.NOSC.MIL writes
> Does anyone invision the floppy drives that ship with NeXT's to be  
> replaced with128MB EO's(3.5")??  I know that the cost per MB is  
> cheaper than floppies, and the drives are much faster than regular  
> floppies(28ms).

[ deleted ]
> to have that.  At $49.00/128MB's there would be a lot of happy users. 
> 


	I hope for everyones sake that NeXT just sticks with the floppy drive  
and leave it at that.

	$49 for media is too high for product distribution.

 	Don't get me wrong, the MO format is my preferred form of archiving  
data, but I don't want it as the primary distribution media.

	NeXT was "innovative" when they shipped with 5 1/4 ODs, and it didn't  
work out.

-- 
- Scott Anguish -
sanguish@digifix.com (NextMail)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish)
Subject: Re: NeXT to ship128MB EO's as replacements for 3.5" drives--Nice thought?
Reply-To: sanguish@digifix.com
Organization: Digital Fix Development
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:07:34 GMT

Maurice Shihadi writes
> About a year ago I was in contact with a company called MOST Inc. 
> (714) 898-9400 in Cypress CA.  At the time they were shipping the
> first 128 3.5 read/write optical.  I asked them about NeXT and they 
> implied strongly that NeXT evaluated the drive and chose not to 
> use it.  Now, they will soon be shipping the 256 and next year 
> they have "bigger" plans.  Does anyone know why NeXT rejected 
> this format as an OEM?  Is there something wrong with it?  
> If anyone were to purchase one of these drives (they are SCSI), would
> configuring a driver (using NeXT's documentation as a resource) work
> out or would would someone have to write one?  Anyone know??????????

	I don't think many companies are currently selling the MOST drive  
anymore.  Its just as well NeXT didn't go with it.  As I remember, at least at  
that time the MOST drive, and many others were not using an ISO standard  
format.
	We would have been in the same boat we are in down with the Next/Canon  
OD, except they would take up less space on our desks.

	It seems like the drives that are currently "popular" would be the  
Sony, Panasonic, and maybe the IBM.  There might be others.

-- 
- Scott Anguish -
sanguish@digifix.com (NextMail)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: tagreen@lothario.cica.indiana.edu (Todd A. Green)
Subject: Re: Objective C for other environments (long)
Organization: CICA - Center for Innovative Computer Applications
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:49:50 GMT

In article <59219@mimsy.umd.edu> alex@cs.umd.edu (Alex Blakemore) writes:
>
>There is a real nice screen saver called BackSpace, it is extendable in that
>can be extended by the user in his own environment.  The user doesnt
>need the source to the app to write the extended module - they arent
>compiled at the same time.

I've written several modules for AfterDark, an extensible screen saver
on the Mac.  I didn't have the source for AfterDark.  I didn't need
late binding (nor would it have made the task any easier. (In this context)).

>
>a more serious example of the same idea is the Interface Builder (IB) itself.
>you can develop your own set of reusable objects, make a pallette so people

I've also created "objects" for ResEdit (editors and pickers in
ResEdit lingo).  I don't have the source for ResEdit, nor again did I
need late binding.


>then there is delegation, which allows objects to send notification

This is really useful and an elegant approach.

Todd
--
NeXTMail:  tagreen@cica.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish)
Subject: Re: NeXT to ship128MB EO's as replacements for 3.5" drives--Nice thought?
Reply-To: sanguish@digifix.com
Organization: Digital Fix Development
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:03:09 GMT

Nathan F. Janette writes
> In article <1992Jul23.224330.189@digifix!uunet.ca> sanguish@digifix.com  
(Scott  
> Anguish) writes:
> > > to have that.  At $49.00/128MB's there would be a lot of happy users. 
> > 
> > 	I hope for everyones sake that NeXT just sticks with the floppy drive  
> > and leave it at that.
> > 
> > 	$49 for media is too high for product distribution.
> > 
> >  	Don't get me wrong, the MO format is my preferred form of archiving  
> > data, but I don't want it as the primary distribution media.
> > 
> > 	NeXT was "innovative" when they shipped with 5 1/4 ODs, and it didn't  
> > work out.
> 
> I think your right, NeXT should never innovate again.  Steve should
> sell out to Bill Gates, and NeXT should adopt Windows NT.  Go with
> the flow, I say.
> 

	Well, large capacity writable media is just something that everyone is  
going to have different requirements/opinions about.

	I'm using a NeXT/Canon OD in my cube, and have a 3.5 128K on order.

	It just seems that right now, with the 1Gb, 650, 300 and 128K opticals,  
plus the CD-ROMs and the likelihood of the new Sony format coming, that  
no-matter what you pick, someone is not going to like it.

	Right now, either floppies or Cd-ROM seems like the best way to go.

-- 
- Scott Anguish -
sanguish@digifix.com (NextMail)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: a74k110@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Chris Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Cube Owners -- Are we shut out from RISC Upgrades?
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 08:11:47 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.155949.6961@leland.Stanford.EDU> m@crito.Stanford.EDU (M Carling) writes:
>In article <Bs2JFJ.J5z@atherton.com> dlw@atherton.com (Remo Williams)  
>writes:
>> The *REAL* question is will NeXT provide a trade-in policy to migrate  
>> users to  the NRW. That means swapping a users Cube for a nicely
>> discounted NRW "brick".
>
>Don't hold your breath. What do you suppose NeXT would want to do with  
>several thousand used cubes? Customers would be much better off putting an  
>NRW on their desks and using their cubes as servers.

Relatively speaking, a current cube would probably be more akin to a
NeXT-terminal than a server to the NRW ;-)

la la la,
-- 
:: Christopher Lloyd :: a74k110@titan.ucc.umass.edu :: Yrrid, Inc. ::
:: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!! ::
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: RightBrain ad in Fall '92 NeXTWORLD
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 08:04:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.222227.533@Trirex.COM> mmelling @Trirex.com(Michael  
Mellinger) writes:
> 
> They might be better off spending the money on a two page add in a  
> magazine like Publish. Everyone in the NeXT community will know about  
> PasteUp.  It's the people in the non-NeXT community that need to be  
> informed.
> 
> -Mike

Good point - that's pretty much why Metrosoft is running a full-page ad  
for MetroTracks in the September issue of Electronic Musician. Besides,  
it'll be nice to see a NeXT-related ad in a more mainstream publication  
(it even has a snazzy photo of a NeXTstation in it...).

Gordon
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: dipalma@csa.bu.edu (james dipalma)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: New OS releases--NS3.0, System 7, Solaris (was Re: IRIX vs. NeXTStep Bud)
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:17:40 GMT
Organization: Boston University NeXT Enthusiasts
In-reply-to: eer1@midway.uchicago.edu's message of 20 Jul 92 17:31:27 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.173127.22316@midway.uchicago.edu> eer1@midway.uchicago.edu (Paul Woods) writes:

> Even if B.T. is now at sun, there are major hurdles to overcome.  
> Sun has an installed base (the largest as workstations go - for 
> now anyway ) of systems and software that would have to become 
> compatible with any new OS.  Sunsoft is pushing solaris but I don't 
> know how successful it will be.  In contrast to trying to make a 
> new OS fit an old machine, the NeXT was designed from the ground 
> up, with NeXTSTEP in mind.

Last week, I saw a man in the next office install System 7.0 onto his 'fx.
He was tentative, but didn't think that the incompatibility problems were
that bad anymore.  Solaris 2.0 is going to be even more incompatible to
SunOS 4.1.2, but NeXTSTEP 3.0 for NeXTs is a long awaited, big-time upgrade
to 2.0 that should _not_ suffer these problems.

But NeXTSTEP '486 is going to be looked at from afar.  It is going to take
some major advertising (like Solaris 2.0) and some very favorable press
(see Windows NT--VERY, VERY favorable press) if it is going to gain some
wide scale support.  Hopefully 3.0 will be out by mid Aug. and be wildly
exciting.  

NeXT should also be able to get some good press from its new object library
($10.95) and from joining OMG, CORBA will be awesome if it works (but that
is a whole nother story).

			-jim
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Subject: Re: Stupid trivia
Followup-To: alt.stupidity,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Jul16.133341.2390@afs.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:33:56 GMT

<In article <1992Jul16.133341.2390@afs.com> Michael_Pizolato@afs.com (Michael Pizolato) writes:
<   In article <1992Jul15.172253.14723@cs.mcgill.ca> samurai@uriel.cs.mcgill.ca  
   (Darcy Brockbank) writes:
<   > I prefer NeXTstep, since it goes with NeXTstation and NeXTdimension,
<   > but it seems that the holy way of writing it is NeXTSTEP. I guess
<   > you're supposed to shout it. Sounds like a Zen Buddhist thing :-).

<   I'M A ZEN BUDDHIST, AND I DON'T SHOUT!!!

<   Uh, oh, sorry.

<   Does NeXTSTEP have Buddha nature?

	Mu.
From: tpugh@oce.orst.edu (Tim Pugh)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT to ship128MB EO's as replacements for 3.5" drives--Nice thought?
Keywords: cd-rom, optical disk
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:36:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: talon.1992Jul27.183641.23279
Organization: Oregon State University - Univ. Computing Services


It would be nice to see 3.5" OD drive with CD-ROM reading capabilities.
So instead of buying a CD-ROM player, only to load NeXT operating systems, we  
could also have a small backup device or a large floppy.  This could make the  
3.5" OD popular enough to lower media costs and eliminate current floppies  
drives in 5-10 years.

Tim Pugh
Oregon State University
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: mmelling @Trirex.com(Michael Mellinger)
Subject: Re: NeXT to ship128MB EO's as replacements for 3.5" drives--Nice thought?
Organization: Trirex Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:41:28 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.175715.5313@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
shiva@vega.Stanford.EDU (Marcos Javier Polanco) writes:
> In article <1992Jul24.161155.28725@cs.yale.edu>  
> nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette) writes:
> > In article <1992Jul23.224330.189@digifix!uunet.ca>  
sanguish@digifix.com  
> 
> If NeXT were to innovate at this point, would it not make more sense to  
> just wait for Sony's MiniDisc instead? Same capacity as a CD, 3.5" form  
> factor, and read/writeable. Since Sony is pushing it as a distribution  
> medium for music, it has got to be cheap. Now THAT would be innovation.

The Sony MiniDisks don't have the same capacity as a CD.  They hold as  
many songs as a CD because they use a lossy compression scheme.  However,  
I think that they would be a good alternative to floppies if they equal  
3.5" opticals in capacity.

-Mike
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jbrecken@uwovax.uwo.ca (Jason C. Breckenridge)
Subject: Re: X11 must die (was Re: IRIX vs. NeXTStep).
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:18:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.022009.27347@math.ucla.edu>, barry@arnold.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes:
> In article <1992Jul17.152139.140501@zeus.calpoly.edu>  
> mneideng@thidwick.acs.calpoly.edu (Mark Neidengard) writes:

> Gee, sounds good. Future looks bright for X. Say, by the
> way, how many _years_ was that between R4 and R5---4 or 5?
> 
> (at the present rate, by the time we get to X11R10 we'll 
> be on NeXTStep 15.0!!)

> Barry Merriman

By simple osmosis, X11R10 will *be* NeXTStep.

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jason C. Breckenridge, Dept. of Physics, University of Western Ontario 
jbrecken@hermes.uwo.ca
  
grad.u.ate study \'graj-(e-)wet 'sted-ee\ n  
(20c)
1: 	a practice in many institutions wherein an individual is made to
	execute a grueling intellectual regimen whilst surviving as far
	below the poverty line as possible.
From: kline@cs.arizona.edu (Nick Kline)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: New OS releases--NS3.0, System 7, Solaris (was Re: IRIX vs. NeXTStep Bud)
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:43:35 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <DIPALMA.92Jul21221740@csa.bu.edu> dipalma@csa.bu.edu (james dipalma) writes:
...
>
>NeXT should also be able to get some good press from its new object library
>($10.95) and from joining OMG, CORBA will be awesome if it works (but that
>is a whole nother story).
>
>			-jim

What is this about next's new object library that costs $10.95?  I haven't
heard that.

nick

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Subject: Re: Cube Owners -- Are we shut out from RISC Upgrades?
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 12:31:13 GMT

In article <92205.161455MKK2@psuvm.psu.edu> <MKK2@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Of course, there are some people who are wedded to the cube for good reasons,
>for example they are ND users,or have some custom board in the cube.  But
>for most people, 1--3 will do the trick.  In fact, if you omit step 3,
>you can network your new NRW with your cube, and have the best of both
>worlds.

ND users wouldn't have a problem if the NRW had the ND (or the same
type of capabilities) on board.  Very, very few poeple have boards
other than the ND in their cubes.


andrew

-- 
andrew@cubetech.com
Andrew Loewenstern      | "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
Cube Technologies, Inc. |  If I am only for myself, who am I?" -Hillel
From: steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Open letter to NextDevelopers (long)(Flamebait)
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:35:14 GMT
Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group

In <1992Jul21.033659.3057@digifix!uunet.ca> sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) writes:

>	The whole "point" of this thread is stupid.  Sherwood wants his "demo"  
>software to be fully functional.

No he doesn't. Read his post - he wants it to be functional enough that you
can work out whether it's any good. He gives some good examples.

>	Demos which are too crippled won't sell the software.  Demos which are  
>not crippled enough won't sell software either.

Which is just what he says in his post.

>	Scott 


							Steve
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: roberto@arrocha.charlotte.nc.us (Roberto Arrocha)
Subject: Re: $$$ NeXT Developer Support $$$
Keywords: NeXT Developer Support
Reply-To: roberto@arrocha.charlotte.nc.us
Organization: Roberto E. Arrocha
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 18:42:33 GMT

Joseph R. Grace writes
| In article <1992Jul18.044311.22753@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
| marcu@leland.Stanford.EDU (Marc Albert Ullman) writes:
|
| This policy clearly favors big development shops at the expense of the
| small ones...

How many big development shops do you see developing for NeXTSTEP?
My point is that this policy does not benefit anyone. Not even NeXT.

| ...for the small guys, it's $225 a question or $3500/1 developer
| Quite unfair and counter-productive considering NeXT's ongoing need
| for new developers...
| 
| Joe Grace <jgrace@TetraSoft.com>

I thoroughly agree with you!

The truth of the matter is that NeXT hasn't seen the expected return on  
investment in the support organization, and is starting to see their  
resources spread thin. I am sure that what NeXT had wished for,  
originally, is more apps and... fewer developers?  Their new policy  
clearly states their current preference for larger development  
organizations, for which $3,500/year is not much.

My suggestion to NeXT is to go ahead and charge a *reasonable* yearly fee  
for support, based on either the number of developers being supported or  
on a fixed number of problems solved.

As a personal comment, I am disappointed in NeXT for the repeated  
discontinuation of policy, ...at the expense of early believers.
1) OD
2) ND
3) Free Developer Support, after DevCamp
4) NeXTcube (?)
5) What's to be discontinued NeXT?

Roberto
-- 
Roberto
NeXTmail: roberto@arrocha.charlotte.nc.us
From: maurices@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Maurice Shihadi)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT to ship128MB EO's as replacements for 3.5" drives--Nice thought?
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:41:29 GMT
Organization: Coast Community College District, Costa Mesa, CA

In article <1992Jul23.224330.189@digifix!uunet.ca> sanguish@digifix.com writes:
>Moose@nosc.NOSC.MIL writes
>> Does anyone invision the floppy drives that ship with NeXT's to be  
>> replaced with128MB EO's(3.5")??  I know that the cost per MB is  
>> cheaper than floppies, and the drives are much faster than regular  
>> floppies(28ms).
>
>[ deleted ]
>> to have that.  At $49.00/128MB's there would be a lot of happy users. 
>> 
>
>
>	I hope for everyones sake that NeXT just sticks with the floppy drive  
>and leave it at that.
>
>	$49 for media is too high for product distribution.
>
> 	Don't get me wrong, the MO format is my preferred form of archiving  
>data, but I don't want it as the primary distribution media.
>
>	NeXT was "innovative" when they shipped with 5 1/4 ODs, and it didn't  
>work out.
>
>-- 
>- Scott Anguish -
>sanguish@digifix.com (NextMail)

About a year ago I was in contact with a company called MOST Inc. 
(714) 898-9400 in Cypress CA.  At the time they were shipping the
first 128 3.5 read/write optical.  I asked them about NeXT and they 
implied strongly that NeXT evaluated the drive and chose not to 
use it.  Now, they will soon be shipping the 256 and next year 
they have "bigger" plans.  Does anyone know why NeXT rejected 
this format as an OEM?  Is there something wrong with it?  
If anyone were to purchase one of these drives (they are SCSI), would
configuring a driver (using NeXT's documentation as a resource) work
out or would would someone have to write one?  Anyone know??????????

maurices
From: ldp@pkyn.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Lyle Parkyn)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT vs. Mainframes...
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:23:04 GMT
Reply-To: ldp@pkyn.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Lyle Parkyn)
Distribution: na
Organization: V-NUS (Vancouver NeXT Users Society)

In article <1992Jul18.183940.29052@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>  
aj681@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Carlin Wiegner) writes:
> 
> ok, guys....
> I have a friend who is in a position to help make a 6,000 person
> company (every person has a computer, thus 6,000 machines! big 
> big deal!) switch from their IBM mainframes over to NeXTs. The
> only problem is I need help coming up with a good presentation
> to give to president/ceo/owner of the company to form a comittee.
> I know NeXTs are for them (they will still need a VAX or two to
> do some of the insurance processing but in general I think they
> can switch over... Please, I think this kind of deal would not
> only help out the company (they do a lot of mission critical
> apps) but also give NeXT a big deal to break through the MIS
> types... Thanx ahead of time... Please post responses I think
> this discussion would benefit from an open forum basis. This
> will show how far NeXT has really come and how far they have
> to go...
> CW
> -- 
If this is a serious possibility and not just well intentioned enthusiastic  
dreaming on you or your friends part (no slight intended) then you must get  
NeXT (the company) involved. This would be an extremely large undertaking on  
the customers part and they need serious guidance from experienced people.  
Putting together a deal like this requires major resources and experience and  
even NeXT will be scrambling to pull this off. 

If you really want NeXT to stand a chance of getting this deal it is not, I  
repeat, not something for an amateur to attempt. NeXT Computer Inc. has done  
lots of presentations to big companies and know how to handle these situations.
-- 
=====
ldp@pkyn.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Mail and/or NeXTMail )
Lyle Parkyn - Reveal Development Service
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Open letter to NextDevelopers (long)(Flamebait)
Date: 21 Jul 92 05:37:27 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Jul21.033659.3057@digifix!uunet.ca>
sanguish@digifix.com writes:

>Demos which are too crippled won't sell the software.  Demos which are  
>not crippled enough won't sell software either.

You're admitting, then, that it's stupid, right, to have
demos that are too crippled?  I mean, what would the point
be of doing that?

>And then he complains about Public Domain/Freeware authors who don't  
>package the software they GIVE away in a way that he likes?

>Its FREE!  Quit complaining!  

God, you must be a Bush/Quayle Republican.  What a dumb-ass
attitude.  Just because it's free is no reason for it to be
*stupid*!

>In the REAL WORLD you would have to PAY for your Internet connection,  
>and PAY full price for your software, and PAY for your NeXT network.

Sure, and they pay *me* twice as much too, so what about
that part?  What a whiner!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 12:07:41 EDT
From: <MKK2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Cube Owners -- Are we shut out from RISC Upgrades?


>I would presume that with those scads of cubes sitting in government and
>financial services firms--the Cube will live still.

The ones in government might, but only if they can figure out how to
network them to their 7090's 8-)


Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy