HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel)
Subject: Re: Oswald's Behaviour
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:56:03 GMT

In article <schuck.711154151@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>The pictures taken at the time show dozens of people running up the
>grassy knoll and converging at the top.
>
>Cops ran up, journalist ran up [including MacNeil of MacNeil/Lehrer],
>and dozens of regular people ran up.
>
>Maybe they were more patriotic than you were and wanted to find out
>who shot their President.

Actually, I can think of many reasons people would run up the hill even
if there were a gunman there:

	1) to get a better look

	2) because other people were running in that direction

	3) because they thought that the shots were coming from the other
	   direction

Note that it is extremely difficult for an untrained ear to figure out from
which direction a shot comes from (it's difficult even for a *trained* ear),
especially when there are buildings around to echo the shots.  Having a gunman
at the top of the hill doesn't mean that anyone running up (except for maybe
one of two in the crowd) KNEW (or even suspected) that there was a gunman
there or that shots did or didn't originate there.

Also note that eyewitness (and earwitness) testimony is inherently unreliable
(as scientific study has been showing more and more over the years) despite
what our courts hold.  Witnesses' memories can change significantly over time,
especially when they are convinced to doubt what they have seen or heard, and
different memories of different events frequently become interconnected.

Physical evidence is always prefered, as far as I'm concerned, over eye- or
ear-witness testimony.  And physical evidence seems to pretty conclusively
show that Oswald could NOT have been the only (or possibly even one of) the
gunmen.

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

San Francisco isn't what it used to be, and it never was.
From: david@cats.ucsc.edu (David Wright)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Conspiracy; Cases and Cartridges
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:37:52 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: mingong-ws-2.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Jul29.114940.28311@engage.pko.dec.com> busta@vicki.enet.dec.com writes:
|
|In article <154ds4INNc25@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, david@cats.ucsc.edu (David Wright) writes...
|
|
|>In sum, note that anti-conspirators are quite happy to convict Oswald in the
|>Tippit murder based only on the shells found at the scene, which happend to
|>have primer marks made by the rifle found on Oswald. 
|
|
|  What???  ....are you trying to say? The .38 shell casings found at the scene
| of the Tippit murder had primer marks made by the Mannlicher????

That is a typo. The point, that is still valid, is that getting the primer
marks on the shell casings convicts Oswald in one case, but the same type of
evidence is ignored in another.

|
|>However, only one shell
|>casing could have been fired from Oswald's gun, and it is likely it was not on
|>that day, since it had the magazine follower marks on it.
|
|
|  Why would the magazine follower marks on the shell casing preclude it from
| having been fired on that day....??

I said unlikely. Usually only the last shell in the clip has the follower marks
on it.
-- 
   |^^^^^^|      _______________________________________________________
   |      |      |"There is nothing in the marginal conditions that    | 
   |      |      | distinguish a mountain from a mole hill"            |
   | (o)(o)      O         Kenneth Boulding                            | 
   @      _)    o|_____________________________________________________|  
    |  ____\ o o
    |     /   
   /     \                              All comments  are mine---(David Wright) 
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2675 alt.conspiracy:9391
From: cortez@milton.u.washington.edu (Tom Warner)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: JFK's death certificate
Date: 25 Jul 92 11:22:07 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:


>Who actually signed JFK's death certificate. Was he a real coroner?

>Was he a Parklands or Bethesada guy? If neither, then where did the
>coroner examine the body? In the morgue?

>Is this guy still alive today?

	It was the justice of the peace in Dallas, Theran Ward. The funeral
home director, Vern Oneal, who provided the hearse and coffin, also signed it.
It is reprinted in full in Crenshaw's 'Conspiracy of Silence.' It's not very
useful.
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2663 sci.skeptic:13194 alt.conspiracy:9380
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Question (J.F.K. brain wound)
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:33:27 GMT

priotti@torino.maraut.it (Enrico Priotti) writes:

>In Oliver Stone's "J.F.K." movie is clearly described the President's autopsy.
>There it is said that half of his brain was taken away by the fatal bullet.
>Is it credible? Is there anyone who has sure information about this?

There are many conflicting reports about the damage to the President's
brain.

The Neurologist who examined JFK while he was in Trauma Room 1 at
Parkland Hospital said the Occipital lobe and part of the Parietal Lobe
on the right side were destroyed.

The attendant at Bethesda, whose job it was to remove the brain, said
there was almost nothing left.

The autospy pictures that have been published show almost no damage to
the brain.

There are no definitive answers about the damage to the brain because
it was never sectioned. The sectioning procedure, which is standard
procedure after an autopsy, involves fixing the brain in a
formaldehyde solution, letting it harden and then slicing it in
sections no bigger than 1cm. This would have given a very clear
picture of what happened to the brain.

Humes, Boswell, and Finck, the autopsists, had done *one* autopsy
between them before they did JFK's. They were amateurs. They should
never have been allowed near JFK if anyone really wanted to know what
had happened to his brain or any other part of his body.



 


Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.smouldering.dog.zone
From: crathbun@nmsu.edu (Chriss Rathbun)
Subject: Re: The Mary Eno Pinchot Meyer story (relations with JFK + Timmy Leary)
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Jul29.151010.25846@crd.ge.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 23:25:30 GMT

What issues?  he (jfk) got half of all cia operatives killed by
pulling out on them during the ill-fated bay of pigs invasion.
that coupled with the rest of his grandstanding made him to much of a
liability to the "power structure" so he was removed.  strikes me as
kinda obvious and very expected.  no mystery, just political
expediency. 
        of course, if we're to keep/bring this thread into the fold of
this group, we may need to either discuss;
1.  The various special recipes that would include presidential brain
fragments as key ingredients, oval office quiche perhaps?
2.  Explain that jfk was really a space alien who was snatched back as
in the movie heavy metal, thus the assasination was the real coverup.
3.  Include mother, maiden, crone in a littany of resurection.
4.  include evidence that before plastic surgery, ross perot was
either jfk or elvis.
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2677 alt.conspiracy:9396
From: pcollac@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Paul Collacchi)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: How many stairwells in the TSDB?  (JFK)
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:43:27 GMT
Reply-To: pcollac@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Paul Collacchi)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pyramid Technologies, Mt. View, California.

In article <1992Jul24.184837.15370@meaddata.com>, davidg@meaddata.com
(David Galehouse) writes:
|>  
|> Witt's testimony was very believable and was accepted by the
|> committee. After reading his statements, I believe that he was being
|> truthful.
|> 
|> Any comments?
|> 

Yeah, as with *all* aspects of this case, there's controversy.  
I'll present a brief outline of what I remember of the loyal opposition
to the official view of the umbrella man. Most of it comes from 
Richard E. Sprague.

Witt is incredible because 

	1.) his testimony of what HE did that day is not consistent
            with what the films show the umbrella man actually doing,
            (Marrs)

	2.) the umbrella brought by Witt before the HSCA which he
            claimed was the famous umbrella, was not in fact the
            same umbrella because it had a different number of
            spokes.

	3.) the umbrella man appeared to be working in conjunction with
            another dark skinned man, who is seen to have a walkie-talkie
            (Marrs, Sprague and others, pictures available)

        4.) pictures of the umbrella man suggest that the umbrella
            man is identifiable as  Gordon Novel, mild-mannered CIA
            agent. (Sprague)


Paul Collacchi
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: lej@pdn.paradyne.com (Leo James)
Subject: Re: Back to the Past
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:58:01 GMT

In article <182854@pyramid.pyramid.com> pcollac@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Paul Collacchi) writes:
>|> In article <1992Jul29.005840.15216@lester.appstate.edu>
>CONEGA@APPSTATE.EDU (Greg Cone) writes:
>|> >I would like to invite the readers of a.c.jfk to take part in a little
>|> >imaginary journey back in time.  You suddenly find yourself transported
>|> >(never mind how) to Dealy Plaza, Dallas, Texas.  Its late in the morning,
>|> >around 11:30 AM, as you gaze out at the gathering crowd awaiting the
>|> >presidential motorcade.  With what you know, or at least think you know,
>|> >about the events that transpired that day, what would you do?
>
>I'm not sure about this.  Funny, I just thought about this question.  I think
>I would go for the umbrella and if possible, the walkie talkie of the guy
>standing next to the umbrella man.  If the umbrella/walkie-talkie pair was
>the go/no-go, signal, disabling the signal team might prevent the 
>assassination.
>
>It would also be fascinating to follow Oswald after he leaves.  I might
>try to warn him, by telling him that he is going to be set up, then 
>move him into hiding.  With Oswald alive to give details, the
>investigation would be easier.

I admire your courage (if, indeed you would do this) but, you realize that
you would be a martyr.  Given that, in this scenario, YOU are the only one
on earth,  outside of those who are compromised,  who knows what's happen-
ing,  you could not draw undue attention to yourself and get yourself mur-
dered.  Nothing would have been accomplished.  You, what you know, and any
evidence you could capture, MUST survive. Sadly enough, if, at the cost of
your life,  you stopped the murder in Dealy Plaza,  I've read that another
hit team awaited him at the site where he was scheduled to speak.      :-(
--
+---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|Leopold E. James     | "A heart, a soul, AND | AT&T Paradyne         |
|ph: (813) 530-8425   |  a mind are terrible  | P.O. Box 2826, LG-132,|
|lej@pdn.paradyne.com |  things to waste."    | Largo, FL 34649 (USA) |
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2687 alt.conspiracy:9415 sci.skeptic:13244
From: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: How many stairwells in the TSDB? (JFK)
Date: 27 Jul 92 01:01:14 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide

In article <1992Jul23.214620.16098@null.uucp> mike@null.uucp (Mike Dreiger) writes:
>In <1992Jul23.053027.12698@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:
>
>
>>What I'm trying to work out is why Baker & Truly only saw Oswald as they
>>ran up the stairs. How come they didn't encounter the "real" assassin?
>
>Let's not forget that Oswald supposedly had to run to the other side of the
>building, hide the gun, run back across the building and then go down the
>stairs.  While the real assassins would have already had Oswald's gun
>hid and could just run to the stairs, making their exit time that much
>quicker.
>

True. But they would have than confronted Baker & Truly at the front entrance.


I think we need answers to the following questions:


1) How many stairwells in the TSDB??

2) How many lift shafts?

3) How many exit doors (front & back)?
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2681 alt.conspiracy:9408
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Saturday, 25 Jul 1992 20:57:56 CDT
From: <U54778@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy
Subject:    ADJOINING SYMPOSIUM ANNOUNCEMENT

The Second Annual Midwest Symposium on the Assassination of JFK, RFK, and
MLK will be held in Chicago on April 2-4, 1993.

For more information write to:

    Assassination Symposium
    P.O. BOX 1570
    Highland, Indiana   46322


----------------- END OF ANNOUNCEMENT --------------------------------
The Symp was so successful that Doug Carlson has taken steps to make it
an annual event rivalling the Dallas and New York conferences.  He plans
to make the next one even more interesting by including panels with
preset goals to focus on.  I am looing forward to it myself.

Let me remind all reading this that I do not receive any money or favors
for posting this and other than knowing Doug Carlson well, have no
connection to this event.
ALAN ROGERS
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
From: mike@null.uucp (Mike Dreiger)
Subject: Re: How many stairwells in the TSDB? (JFK)
Organization: U S WEST Communications
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:46:20 GMT

In <1992Jul23.053027.12698@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:


>What I'm trying to work out is why Baker & Truly only saw Oswald as they
>ran up the stairs. How come they didn't encounter the "real" assassin?

Let's not forget that Oswald supposedly had to run to the other side of the
building, hide the gun, run back across the building and then go down the
stairs.  While the real assassins would have already had Oswald's gun
hid and could just run to the stairs, making their exit time that much
quicker.

-- 
Mike Dreiger
UUCP: mike@null.uucp
These words only come from my mouth when my lips move.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
From: Robert.Daniels@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Robert Daniels)
Subject: TUM (was How many stairwells in the TSDB?  (JFK) )
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:53:08 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.184837.15370@meaddata.com> davidg@meaddata.com (David Galehouse) writes:
>
    [deletions]

>The "Umbrella Man" was actually a Dallas life insurance salesman by
>the name of Louie Steven Witt. After being identified through a blowup
>of a Zapruder still, Witt testified before the House Assainations
>Committee in 1978.
   
     [delections]

>Any comments?
>-- 
> David A. Galehouse | ...!uunet!meaddata!davidg                          
> Mead Data Central  | davidg@meaddata.com                             
> P.O. Box 933       | Any opinions expressed                          
> Dayton, OH  45401  | are mine, not MDC's.

Since I can't directly upload files written off-line, I'm asking (i.e.
imposing myself on) Al Wesolowsky to post my response, which consists of a
lengthy passage from The Taking of America, 1-2-3 which appeared on
alt.conspiracy.jfk last month.

Robert Daniels 

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: ajs9462@zeus.tamu.edu (SIMON, ANTHONY JOE)
Subject: Re: How many stairwells in the TSDB? (JFK)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:33:00 GMT

In article <schuck.712433662@sfu.ca>, Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes...
>ajs9462@zeus.tamu.edu (SIMON, ANTHONY JOE) writes:
> 
>>Actually, I'm not sure that I understand your scenario. The stairs are
>>diagonally across the building from Oswald's sniper position, so there is no
>>retracing of steps. He drops the gun off as he makes his way to the stairs.
> 
>'drops the gun off' makes it sound as if the rifle was in plain sight.
> 

Okay, given the picture that I've seen of the gun 'hidden' behind boxes, I
figure that it might take all of 2 seconds to put the gun there. The gun was
not well-hidden.

>The evidence shows that it was among a stack of boxes that were
>difficult to get to and probably was covered by boxes as well.
> 

Again, it was not well-hidden. The officer that found it could see it when
shining his flashlight towards the location where it was. This implies to
me that the only reason it was difficult to see was that it was in a dark
area of the room.

>It is very likely that the sniper didn't have enough time to hide the
>gun and make to the 2nd floor lunchroom before Baker and Truly.
>
>That makes Oswalds statement that he came up a different staircase
>[the one that only went up to the 2nd floor] and entered the lunchroom
>much more likely.

In your opinion, not mine.

Tony Simon
From: david@cats.ucsc.edu (David Wright)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Assassination hour
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:12:01 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: mingong-ws-2.ucsc.edu


In article <5811@ucru2.ucr.edu> judson@watnxt2.ucr.edu (Michael Judson) writes:
|In article <1992Jul28.113946.21384@i2unix.dist.unige.it>  
|priotti@torino.maraut.it (Enrico Priotti) writes:
|> How do we know that J.F.K.'s assassination occurred
|> *exactly* at 12:30 p.m.?
|
|Why is this relevant?  Does it change anything?  And don't you think that
|with so mant witnesses there would be at least one who would have the
|correct time.  Furthermore, why would anyone want to give a false time
|as to the assassination.


Well, we do know when the assassination was for several reasons. One, there's
film of the digital clock on one of the buildings. Two, there is the 
recordings from the police broadcasts. A microphone was left open within a
minute of 12:30 and can be located by witnesses and fillm Three, there is
witness testimony, that puts the assassination at 12:30. I think one of the
witnesses was a SS agent who was looking at his watch when he heard shots ring
out. There are lots of witnesses.

But,  surely, as Enrico Priotti notes, it doesn't make too much difference.
-- 
   |^^^^^^|      _______________________________________________________
   |      |      |"There is nothing in the marginal conditions that    | 
   |      |      | distinguish a mountain from a mole hill"            |
   | (o)(o)      O         Kenneth Boulding                            | 
   @      _)    o|_____________________________________________________|  
    |  ____\ o o
    |     /   
   /     \                              All comments  are mine---(David Wright) 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
From: ajs9462@zeus.tamu.edu (SIMON, ANTHONY JOE)
Subject: Re: How many stairwells in the TSDB? (JFK)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:44:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.214620.16098@null.uucp>, mike@null.uucp (Mike Dreiger) writes...
>In <1992Jul23.053027.12698@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:
> 
> 
>>What I'm trying to work out is why Baker & Truly only saw Oswald as they
>>ran up the stairs. How come they didn't encounter the "real" assassin?
> 
>Let's not forget that Oswald supposedly had to run to the other side of the
>building, hide the gun, run back across the building and then go down the
>stairs.  While the real assassins would have already had Oswald's gun
>hid and could just run to the stairs, making their exit time that much
>quicker.
> 
>-- 
>Mike Dreiger
>UUCP: mike@null.uucp
>These words only come from my mouth when my lips move.

Actually, I'm not sure that I understand your scenario. The stairs are
diagonally across the building from Oswald's sniper position, so there is no
retracing of steps. He drops the gun off as he makes his way to the stairs.

Tony Simon
From: grimm@eecae.ee.msu.edu (Jerry Michael Grimm)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: The Mary Eno Pinchot Meyer story (relations with JFK + T
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:44:58 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

CONEGA@APPSTATE.EDU (Greg Cone) writes:

>In <CRATHBUN.92Jul28185731@dante.nmsu.edu> crathbun@nmsu.edu writes:

>> re: kennedy
>> actually kennedy was an idiot!
>> he was a power crazed, sex fiend(guess he wasn't all bad),
>> meglomaniacal fool who brought the world to the brink of nuclear
>> anhilation several times with his grandstanding politics designed to
>> make him look good regardless of the threat to peace he caused.
>>

>Hmmm...  Except maybe the sex fiend part, sounds like our current prez.
>  

Gee, when did Georgy-boy bring us to the nuclear brink?  

Now, Grandstanding politics I see -- but then again, so has every president
since Washington (actually, including Washington).

Mike G
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2617 sci.skeptic:13043 alt.conspiracy:9301
From: ajs9462@zeus.tamu.edu (SIMON, ANTHONY JOE)
Subject: Re: How many stairwells in the TSDB?  (JFK)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:00:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.150416.22935@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, m_henderson@csc32.enet.dec.com (Marty Henderson) writes...
>--
[Questions about assassin getting downstairs in the TSBD without police stopping
him/them deleted.]
> 
>Derek, why do you assume that the killers were out of the building BEFORE
>Baker & Truly arrived? There are other possible means of escape.
> 
>If they wore disguises then who couldent they escape by walking right out
>in from of the police? After all - Oswald himself exited via the front door
>right past the cops several min. after the assassination.
> 

Because (according to the police), they let Oswald out after he was identified
as an employee in the building. Now that sounded like they wouldn't let someone
out who wasn't an employee. In any case, wouldn't they have mentioned that they
had let someone out who wasn't an employee. After all, they admitted letting
Oswald out.

>And there is also the possibility of hiding. Perhaps there was somewhere to
>hide? 
>

Possibly, but I doubt it. From what I saw of the building, a thorough search
could be made easily. However, I didn't see every floor in the building.

>Or perhaps there was a good way out - or a secret way out via ducts or soemthing.
> 
>I know there are witnesses who say they saw people getting into cars and making
>an exit up Houston street.
> 

People getting into cars does not imply much to me. People do that all the
time.

Tony Simon
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel)
Subject: Re: GIFs posted in alt.binaries.pictures.misc
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:40:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul16.190227.23426@crd.ge.com> system@crd.ge.com writes:
>I have displayed these gif images on my VAXstation using motif
>and find them to be too dark.  Were they scanned properly?
>(All other images that I have taken off the .pictures. newsgroup
>display fine.)

Well, if you have xv you can edit the colors so you can see them.

The zapruder segment is very grainy and appears reasonably well with a
gamma of 8 (I modified after that to get something I liked, but 8 gamma is
a good start).

I used a gamma of approximately 2.4 with the willis photograph and then
twiddled a little after that.

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

Cynic, n.:
	One who looks through rose-colored glasses with a jaundiced eye.
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2683 alt.conspiracy:9411 sci.skeptic:13235 misc.legal:14859