HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dmanke@active.UVic.CA (Dennis  Manke)
Subject: Re: NEW Casio Alto Watch...
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 08:47:56 GMT

In article <106480254@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> eao@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Ed Ogle) writes:
>
>Has anyone out there seen or had experience with the new Casio Altimeter
>watches?

Recently I looked at the specs for the new Casio watch that will be avail
in Canada sometime in Oct (I believe).

Major highlights I can recall are:
  - measures altitude to 6000m (not 4000m)
  - temperatures to -4 deg C
  - totally digital display with (I think 24hr) bar chart for altitude and
    pressure
  - backlight
  - no depth meter (who needed it anyways)

I've heard that it also measures altitude fast enough so that people
who go paragliding can use them, but thats just a rumour.

I don't know if it is temp compensated and don't really know if it makes
much of a difference. About a year ago I did some quick searching to find
out what equations are used to predict altitudes and they depend on
pressure, temp, humidity, latitude, etc., and found no quick and simple
blurb on how important each parameter was. The equations were of
course based on a mathematical model which I presumed was accurate.
Does anyone have an answer???

Dennis        dmanke@sanjuan.uvic.ca
From: parilis@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Gary Parilis)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Stupid quotes
Keywords: stupid
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:09:32 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Aug12.172539.12550@ncar.ucar.edu> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:

> Anyone want to give "Mantle or..." a try?  :-)

Mantle or dismantle....

- Gary
From: psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (P.S. Powledge)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Request For Information: Climbing Areas in Western Mass.
Keywords: Know of Any?
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:38:15 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ


Hello all,

My schedule has me spending a lot of time in Western Massachusetts this
year, and I'm wondering if anybody can give me some pointers to local
rockclimbing areas. Especially perfect would be areas with mid-range 
top-roping problems and very easy lead routes with natural pro. I'd also 
welcome pointers to any local ice climbing areas, if they exist.

Please email directly to me. If there's sufficient interest, I'll 
summarize to the net.

Thanks in advance ...
-- 
				||| Polly Powledge
				||| Internet: P.S.Powledge@ATT.COM
				||| Uucp:     att!hrmso!psp
From: rob@cygnus.com (Rob Savoye)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Chalking Up (was: grease)
Date: 1 Sep 92 05:17:47 GMT
	<1992Aug31.011430.26837@news.mentorg.com> <15217@umd5.umd.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: /s1/users/rob/.organization
In-reply-to: jjk@astro.umd.edu's message of 31 Aug 92 16:08:19 GMT

In article <15217@umd5.umd.edu> jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter) writes:

   I just got back from about 3 weeks out west.  Didn't use chalk once.
   Pain in the ass, I think, so I generally don't use it.  I get back to
   DC area and call the weather on the first day I'm going to go climbing
   back here and it is 97% humidity.  Even though I got a 6a start, I
   think a 5.1 would have been almost impossible without chalk!

   Well, so maybe this chalk thing depends a little on where you are,
   etc.

I don't think so. I climbed for many years on the east coast and
*never* used chalk. I still don't.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: billw@ace.mentorg.com (Bill Wright)
Subject: Chalking Up (was: grease)
Originator: billw@ace
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 01:14:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: billw@sjc.mentorg.com
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <1992Aug29.013909.27005@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:

|> If I "have" to chalk up now, I won't climb it 
An admirable stance that I somewhat agree with.  Yes, don't use chalk but
you can still climb it.  Albeit with a different style.

|> (the second pitch of the last
|> climb two weekends ago, a second on the party above asked if I had any chalk,
|> Gawd, it was a mere 5.7 [trying new shoes], I could see chalk maybe for
|> 10s and higher, but not 7s.
This is simple assinine.  Why limit the 5.7 climbers?  Better climbers
sometimes have this elitist attitude that they can change the rules since
they are better than most people.  Bullshit!  Everyone gets to use the same
rules.  What's so special about 5.10?  I climb 5.10 without chalk and I'm
certainly no great climber.  5.12 climbers could certainly climb 5.11 without
chalk.  5.13 climbers could climb 5.12.  Etc.  Chalk doesn't make impossible
climbs possible.  It merely ups (possibly) the climbing level of the individual
climber.  I assume the 5.10 rating was chosen in this case because it is 
difficult for Eugene.  It this valid?  What is 5.7 is difficult for Gomer?
Is this the Eugene rule for chalk usage?  A lot of climbers would be in
trouble if Peter Croft made the rules.

Chalk is an ego thing where people want to climb a slightly higher number.
The cost is ugly chalk all over the rock marking the route.  I won't propose
the thought of banning chalk because there is NO WAY this is going to happen.
I am not militant about this chalk issue.  All my partners climb with chalk.
I accept it as a necessary evil of climbing.  But come on, it is completely
ridiculous to ban chalk on the easier climbs.

Feeling fiesty today...

Bill
-- 
             Bill Wright / bill_wright@mentorg.com

                  "When in doubt, run it out!"
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: OLD Casio Alto Watch...
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:53:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.164441.10376@nas.nasa.gov>,
eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>Sitting in my current office (within close sight of the SF bay, second story)
>my watch currently reads 400 Ft altitude.  The watches require a fair degree of
>attention (fortunately I work at an airfield and I just call up the Navy
>meteorologist and ask for the millibars).  So you should be able to guess
>it has been some time since I have reset the thing.  Also I reset the
>altitude closer to the area where I use the instrument than down here.
>
Reminds me of Tilman writing that according to the altimeter, his
climbing party had appearently ascended 500 feet in their sleep.
Tilman didn't seem to have a high regard for technology or those who
use it!  (I think this bit is from his Nanda Devi book.)
From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:49:34 GMT
Subject: Re: grease
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

In rec.climbing, ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Gregory Hill) writes:

> Other eldo grease ratings:
> 
> Bastille Crack - G3
> Grand Course, P1 - G2
> Foothold at crux of Center Route: G3 (or should that be a "rubber rating": R3 ???)
> Foothold at crux of Cruisin' for Burgers: G2 (R2)
>  

What about the footholds on C'est La Vie?  G3?

Mort

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Sunscreen which is not greasy
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 16:49:57 GMT

In article <BtMCBB.BBt.2@cs.cmu.edu> cline+@cs.cmu.edu (Kenneth Cline) writes:
>It even leaves a nice grey film on your skin (titanium dioxide).

Don't worry, the FDA will soon discover that it causes cancer in laboratory
test animals. 8^)

>I have also decided to give up talking about body belays.  It doesn't
>win me points on the net, and it doesn't win me points at the crags.
>I don't even like the Sierra Club, anyway.

Ken, Who's trying to win points?
Gawd!  Back to competitive climbing, go have some fun this weekend.
Maybe we need a body belay FAQ....
A lot of people don't like the Sierra Club (or certain parts inside it).

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Subject: Re: lawn chairs
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:56:41 GMT



How about the third flatiron..? seems to me that would be a great
place to checkout the fireworks on the fourth!

--
            tim schneider

    timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  OR
  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc
           (602) 436-3078
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eno@leland.Stanford.EDU (Benedict Dugan)
Subject: Re: Wolfgang Guellich is dead
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 18:10:01 GMT

Anybody know more about this?  Or have I been taken for a ride?

Ben
eno@leland.stanford.edu

From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 14:59:13 GMT
Subject: Re: climbing in Wyoming
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

In rec.climbing, Leslie.J.Sonder@dartmouth.edu (Leslie J. Sonder) writes:

> I will be spending about a month near Greybull,Wyoming (just west of
> the Bighorn Mountains) from mid-Sept. to mid-Oct, and and am interested
> in knowing about good climbing. Can anyone tell me about nearby
> climbing areas (either sport areas or easily accessible traditional
> areas)?  Unfortunately my work requirements mean that I will be limited
> to one-day trips--i.e. no multi-day trips, no backpacking, etc. I'm
> mostly interested in 5.10 and lower grades.
> 
> I have heard that there is good climbing near Lander. How far (driving)
> is that from Greybull? Are there any local outdoors shops where one can
> find out more info?
> 
> Also, will cold weather or snow be a problem? Perhaps low-altitude
> areas are better that time of year?
> 

Todd Skinner's Wild Iris Mountain Shop in Lander will have info.  It's right
on the main street.  Most of the climbing in the Winds would require
backpacking, so that's out.  Two sport areas near Lander - Wild Iris and
Sinks Canyon have all bolted limestone routes.

For more info:
  - Wild Iris topos in Rock & Ice # 48.
  - Sinks Canyon in Climbing #129.
  - Western limestone overview including both Wild Iris and Sinks
    in Climbing #131.

Wild Iris is short, but the rock and area are both very beautiful - true
pocket climbing.  I'll be at these areas from Sept. 4th - 9th and then down
to Rifle, CO.

Weather may be bad some days, but in general it should be great.  Both areas
are mostly South facing.

Mort (had the mags in my office to make copies of the topos and daydream over)
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Chalking Up (was: grease)
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:08:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

In article <1992Aug31.011430.26837@news.mentorg.com> billw@sjc.mentorg.com writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug29.013909.27005@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>
>|> If I "have" to chalk up now, I won't climb it 
>An admirable stance that I somewhat agree with.  Yes, don't use chalk but
>you can still climb it.  Albeit with a different style.
>
>Chalk is an ego thing where people want to climb a slightly higher number.
>The cost is ugly chalk all over the rock marking the route.  I won't propose
>the thought of banning chalk because there is NO WAY this is going to happen.
>I am not militant about this chalk issue.  All my partners climb with chalk.
>I accept it as a necessary evil of climbing.  But come on, it is completely
>ridiculous to ban chalk on the easier climbs.

Ah, to climb in CA...

I just got back from about 3 weeks out west.  Didn't use chalk once.
Pain in the ass, I think, so I generally don't use it.  I get back to
DC area and call the weather on the first day I'm going to go climbing
back here and it is 97% humidity.  Even though I got a 6a start, I
think a 5.1 would have been almost impossible without chalk!

Well, so maybe this chalk thing depends a little on where you are,
etc.

jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
Jim Klavetter
Astronomy
UMD
College Park, MD  20742
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:38:27 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <28128@sophia.inria.fr> luong@sophia.inria.fr writes:
>In article <l9tbrkINNl4n@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
>
>|> I am amazed at all this negative publicity.  I might remind the
>|> readers of the net that nearly all great alpine and rock faces
>|> (yeah, like the Eiger, Walker Spur, Cime Ovest, El Capitan,
>|> etc., etc.) were first climbed using body belays.
>
>And ropes which were in fact static and fragile, without climbing harnesses.
>It doesn't mean they were climbed a safe way.

Yes every one of the first thirty or so people who attempted
the Eiger nordwand and didn't back off were killed (as well as many
who were attempting to back off).  It deeply impresses me to think
about the type of confidence it would take to attempt the face under
those circumstances.  "Well I realize everyone who's tried it so far
has died, but I can do it.  I'm willing to bet my life on it."


-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Leading on 9mm?
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:15:17 GMT
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer

In article <92246.140603FQV@psuvm.psu.edu> FQV@psuvm.psu.edu (jim bowers) writes:
>If you are going to lead on a single nine (and I often do) I suggest the
>bluewater 9mm as it is the fattest nine out there.

It certainly is!  Unfortunately, it seems to take some of the attraction
out of using double 9s.  I've never weighed one in the store, but
you just won't believe that this rope and an 8.8 mm are 'the same'.

The MT catalog reported it at 5.8 lbs. To compare, IME reports the
Mammut AroTwin at just under 5 lbs, almost 20%  lighter.  The lightest
Black Diamond *single* rope in the MT catalog was 6.25 lbs, just
~12% heavier than the Revolution, and rated 5 falls.

Just consider the BW Revolution as a 9.6 or so rope, not a 9.
It may be right for you.

-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
But I make a profit of 3 1/4 cents an egg by selling them for 4 1/4
cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for 7 cents an egg.
Of course, *I* don't make the profit.          Joseph Heller, Catcha 22
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: unexpected hazards of climbing
Date: 30 Aug 92 00:22:09 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <106480257@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM
(Jeff Elison) writes:
>We would see more porcupines at the outhouse than everywhere else combined.
>Over the years they had eaten 18" holes in the sides.

We have had the same problem with an outhouse (Ken's Place) for one
of the ski cabins I maintain.  We "solved" that problem by replacing
the plywood (they also like the glue) with redwood slats).  For the moment,
we have the upper hand, but they have done major damage.
One has to be careful not to walk on the quills.  We have a wood collecting
trip in two weekends, and we need more human mules (the SC provides the food)
if Bay Area readers want to visit Ken's place (as well as the hut 8^).

>That made for some cold visits when the winter
>wind was whipping from the right direction.

Well you don't need holes for it to be cold 8^). Partner
Keith's outhouse in Fairbanks is -50F during the winter.  Amusing at first.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: ufessex@mcl.ucsb.edu (Aristophanes)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Climbing Rack?
Summary: Climbing Rack
Keywords: Climbing Rack
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:46:44 GMT

Hi, appologies for any misspells, I am a terrible speller and lazy (I could 
have used the spell checker!!)

I a tring to compleate my climbing rack, I got some stuff, but obviously not a
compleate rack. I would like to get some input from the more experienced
climbers on what I should have in my rack for rock climbing as well as an
alpine rack (whatevr that may be) I will compile and repost for everybodies
benefit, so please send via e-mail!!!


Thank you in advance to all of you!!!


Fabian E. Schonholz
ufessex@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu
From: rclarke@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Rope condition questions
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:09:39 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

> What kind of rappel device are you using?  If you are using
> a figure 8, this could be the cause of much of your woe.  Devices which impart
> a twist to the rope (like 8's) can cause the core to twist wrt the mantle,
> which can greatly change the properties of the rope (like the spiraling).
> Quite a few rescue groups now refuse to let members use twist-imparting
> rappel devices.
> 
> --
> 
> Scott Linn
> scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
Is there a rapel device that dosen't twist the rope because I'm getting tired
of unwinding my rope after every climb I do.

--
Ethan Clarke
--
Rclarke@AC.DAL.CA
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: City Rock Comp
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:37:11 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon) writes:
>Mispelling Jim Karn's last name could have caused half the readership here to
>run out and try to kick him over.  The parenthetical note was probably
>a reasonable precaution.


Especially since he is over 6'3".

ARS
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: How strong do you have to be?
Reply-To: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 08:45:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.223908.7157@access.usask.ca>, choy@skorpio.usask.ca writes:
>How strong do you have to be to climb a cliff? Do you have to support
>yourself a lot with your arms?

It depends on a lot of factors; how steep the "cliff" is, whether you're
climbing cracks, face, slabs, etc.  And unless you're climbing much harder
than about 5.10b/c -- and arguably even at the hardest grades -- you SHOULD
be using your feet more than your arms.  

Considering that (1)  I'm not too strong, and (2)  I climbed a "cliff" on
Sunday...I guess that should answer your questions.

Yahoodies to Saskatoon!!!!  
>
>Henry Choy
>choy@cs.usask.ca
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:38:25 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

Look, the bottom line here seems to be two ships passing in the night.
On one hand some of us are saying, we don't want technological dependence
be it a belay device or a rappel device (recent partner didn't know how to
assemble a biner break) or what ever.  The other hand is disavowing
use of hip belays (many of which are done improperly around a waist and
not the hips, hence some of the pain).

If you want to bail because you discover your partner does something
you don't like (technology dependence or old technique) that's for you
to discover BEFORE you go on the climb, not 10 pitches up.  Otherwise you
gotta live with it until you get off.  Dynamic belay or not.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:28:37 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Aug31.183330.19540@schbbs.mot.com> CMSC28@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Mark Hickey) writes:

>The best way to consistantly tie this amazing knot is to get totally
>blown on a long climb, and then carefully gather your rope and toss
>it over the edge for a long rap.  It'll tie itself into a perfect
>rat's nest almost every time!
            ^^^^^^

And the rest of the time?  It ties itself into a gordian knot, of
course.

:-)
From: cptully@med.unc.edu (Christopher P. Tully,Pathology,62699)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Static line?
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:15:30 GMT
Reply-To: cptully@med.unc.edu
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine

In article 27744@sophia.inria.fr, luong@naxos.inria.fr (Quang-Tuan Luong) writes:
{excess deleted}
>     By the way, I used to like the fact that a party should not try a climb
>if one of the member is not able to lead it, but times changes.
>
>One advantage of a static rope for top-roping is precisely lack of 
>elasticity, I imagine it would be convenient for top-roping in Verdon...
>
>Tuan.

What about climbs where it is an easy walk up to the top?  It seems to me that if a group of friends are all starting out climbing, and want to go together, they don't have much choice but to use such areas.  Also, this type of climbing gives those less experienced a chance to practice on their own.

---
*********************************************************************
Christopher P. Tully				<cptully@med.unc.edu>
Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill		1122 Vic Charles Dr.
Department of Pathology				Raleigh, NC 27606
CB# 7525			work: (919) 966-2699
Chaple Hill, NC 27599		hone: (919) 851-8816
*********************************************************************
 All opinions above are Copywrite <current year> Christoper P. Tully
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Good/bad experiences with (sleeping) overbags
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:05:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.172240.27920@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>,
bohack@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (edward.e.harstead) writes:
>
>Just for the record, I also had a real lousy experience with
>Feathered Friends, including delays and misinformation.  Very
>unprofessional mail order staff.
>
A few years ago they distributed their products through Mountain
Tools.  It was the only time I ever had a problem getting prompt
service from MT.  Subsequently, MT seems to have dropped FF,
presumably due to slow service.  To be complete, however, I should
mention that when it finally arrived, the FF sleeping bag was
excellent.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Leading on 9mm?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:38:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.071849.28499@news.uit.no>,
paale@stud.cs.uit.no (Paal Ellingsen) writes:
>My question is: is it safe to lead on a single 9mm, as long as you don't get any
>long runouts? Accoording to the technical spesifications, a good 9mm can take
>more UIAA-falls than my old 10.5mm, but are there any good arguments against
>using a 9mm for leading?
>
Since mountaineers frequently use 9's to save weight, its probably
OK if you KNOW that the rope will never run over a sharp edge and if
KNOW that you will never be taking a worst case fall.  If your
concern is just weight be aware that Mammut's 8.5 which were
formally "twin" rated are now "double" rated by the UIAA.   If its
just the hassle of two ropes that concerns you and if its just the
need for a second rope for rapping, why not get another 10.5 plus a
7mm.  Only carry the 7 when you might need to rap.