HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Templars not Masons <was: Re: Who/what is Baphomet?>
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 15:51:39 GMT

In article <BtqCJM.Ezo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:

>Umm, Masonry didn't exist back then, according to all the scholarship I've 
>seen which is not obviously conspiracy theory.  Eddie, can you help us out
>with a date for the origins of Masonry?
>
>              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
>                               Br'anArthur

I had always heard that the Masons went as far back as Alexander the Great.
Maybe not the modern Masonic Temple as we know it (or as well as anyone not
a Mason can know it) today, or the Sottish Rites crew, but the basic premises
and such. I will admit to not having studied Masonry, but this is what I've
heard. I will await further additions to this thread eagerly. The Masons
have always intrigued me.

Bb,

Corun


-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra     |  The great thing about travel is getting to
  Dark Horde by birth   |   meet new people and see new places.
    Moritu by choice    |                            G. Khan
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Canada (was: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else)
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:47:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, Davis

In article <1992Aug31.220149.8878@samba.oit.unc.edu>, shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett) writes:
> 
> Gee, I have a brother in Bellingham, WA...  I really like Vancouver.  Anyone
> wanna look into a pagan diaspora to BC if the elections go badly in November?

Sounds good to me. Have to talk my SO into it, though... (She just finished
a PhD in microbiology so I assume  *she'd* be welcome. As for me, a pagan
musician and semi computer jock... I dunno  :-))

I have to admit to occasionally sharing everyone's depression/anxiety/
foreboding about the course the country is taking. I have my own ideas
about what's responsible for the pass we've come to - TV and it's
moronic popular culture is real high on the list. It's really a perfect
medium for mind control and when I read that young kids watch 6-7 hours
of that c**p *every day*, I shudder. 

Keep hope alive!

Richard
(Tuneweaver)
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: republican delema
Date: 28 Aug 92 23:20:03 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, Davis

In article <1992Aug28.192330.24250@news.iastate.edu>, txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling) writes:
> 
> I think that the best solution to the problems with the dominit partys and
> groups like that belonging to Pat Robensen is to form a Pagen party. fight
> fire with fire. There are bound to be enufe pagens out there to make this
> work. With a unified party even the smalist wimper can be hurd from a large
> enife group. There are probly enufe pagens out there that the funding could
> easaly be suplyed to such a canadite to put there face and vews out in public
> and make them well known. We could gain the first pagen presadent.
> 

It's a good idea but unfortunately I think we're *generations* away 
from being able to do something like this. Nor am I sure I'd like to
see a political party based on a religious affiliation such as
paganism (please no flames or arguments about whether or not
paganism is a religion or not - this has been discussed to death
in other threads). To my way of thinking that is too narrow of a
basis for a political party. Now having a pagan element in the
Green Party, which does have a somewhat broader agenda, might
be a way to go. Even the Greens aren't too organized in this
country yet, though...  Our first order of business has to be
getting the current lunatics out of office. BTW, if Clinton wins,
I'd be willing to wager that he and his crowd are going to
uncover information about the Reagan-Bush years that's going to
forever discredit them (well, I can hope, right?)

illegitemati non carborundum!

Richard
(Tuneweaver)

    "Insert incredibly deep and relevant quote of your
     choice here."
From: wang!ailanth!ailsa@ulowell.ulowell.edu (temporary)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson quote (good for a nervous laugh)
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:36:59 GMT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:

> In article <16353@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsi
> >Seen on rec.humor:
> >
> > Religous broadcaster Pat Robertson, who is always good for a laugh, is
> >actively campaigning against Iowa's proposal to put the Equal Rights
> >Amendment on their state constitution. Wire Reports reports he said in
> >a letter last month that the ERA is part of a "feminist agenda" that
> >"is not about equal rights for women." Instead, he wrote, "it is about a
> >socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to
> >leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy
> >capitalism and become lesbians."
> >

humurously enough, if you look through the pat-speak, he's right.  socialist?
by his yardstick, anyone of good will is a socialist.  anti-family?  we know
what he means by that, he means that we support some other family than that of
ward and june cleaver.  leave their husbands?  sure, if he's a jerk and they
want to, why not?  kill their children?  folks, je's talking about abortion
here.  practice witchcraft?  why shoudln't wicca and goddess spirituality be
encouraged?  destroy capitalism?  great idea!  although practically any agenda
put forth that doesn't match his is an attempt to destroy capitalism in his
eyes.  become lesbians?  lesbians need all the support they can get.  and
besides, as kate clinton says, we DO want the best for people!  B)

                                                -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     wang!ailanth!ails@ulowell.ulowell.edu         ________
      No visible means of support          Silence \      / Action
      and you have not seen nothing yet.      =     \    /    =
      Everything's come together.           Death    \  /    Life
                                                      \/
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Re: Opinion
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 2 Sep 92 05:23:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.211933.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> cmacdonald@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>Hey,
>
>The "crazy" crack was just a minor bit of sarcasm. I am not one of those Masons
>who will simply not abide female Masonry. The issue is complicated, but most
>Masons just dismiss it out of hand. Janis, you hit me slightly low on that one,
>although I admit my composition my have earned it for me. I would love to hear
>something more constructive.

Fret not, hon.  It rubbed me the wrong way to hear an all-female group
just dismissed out of hand like that.  Try sticking in a smiley :-) or
;-) or something like that when you're being sarcastic, especially when
it's about a subject that is touchy.

Blessings,
Janis
From: pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Peter Alexander Merel)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else
Date: 28 Aug 92 06:45:06 GMT
Organization: Customised Software Solutions Centres, AOTC

hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Anthony 'the Bard' Hobbs) writes:
>In article <l9knkaINN6vp@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes:
>>In article <2A99A23A.6198@orion.oac.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>>>I wish I could disgree with ANYONE on this, but I can't.  All I can say
>>>is that i will have MY FINGERNAILS PULLED OUT BEFORE I WILL STAY IN A
>>>COUNTRY THAT IS LIKE THIS.  I *WILL* LEAVE. 
>>I feel exactly the same way. With my training and my wife's, we can do
>>quite well most anywhere in the world. I rather like the idea of New Zealand.
>You'll both be very welcome. Look me up if you get to Wellington. :-)

This reminds me of the old Taoist story about the chap with a farm just on
the border of a certain long lost country. One day a young fellow came riding
by, and the farmer struck up a conversation.
"Where're you going?" he asked.
"I'm emigrating. I'm going to go live in the village near here. What can you 
 tell me about the people there?"
"What were they like at home?"
"Terrible. Mean-spirited, petty, spineless, brutish people."
"Oh," said the farmer, "well, you're out of luck. You'll find them much the 
 same here."

The following day another young fellow came riding by.
"And where're you going?" the farmer asked.
"I'm emigrating. I'm going to go live in the village near here. What can you 
 tell me about the people there?"
"What were they like at home?"
"Wonderful. Happy, beautiful and loving. Good People."
"Oh," said the farmer, "well, you're in luck. You'll find them much the 
 same here."

I can tell you that Oz might not be a bad choice if you're looking for
a home. We've got the same sort of bullshitters in goverment here as
you have there.  We've got a recession just like you folks - some might say
worse. We've got rampant mind fuckers in our media, yours, ours and
everybody else's. But we've got fantastically empty and beautiful countryside, 
ethnic diversity, and great undeveloped opportunities all over the place.

If you're looking for freedom from bureaucratic and political
repression you won't find it here, or anywhere. Look at it this way:
Utopia, should it exist for even a little while, will attract all
kinds of suckers and parasites. It will then cease to be utopia. 

The only real alternative is to keep utopia secret.  Treat the
vicissitudes of your neighbours, their property and laws as you would a
ferocious pack of babboons - with caution and tolerance. You can't
enlighten the masses; they don't want enlightenment. You can only do
your best by you and yours, keep your head down, and focus on the
beauty in the world. If you can do that you will live well.

-- 
Internet: pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au   UUCP: {uunet,mcvax}!munnari!cssc-syd!pete
Snail: 1/18-20 Orion Road, Lane Cove NSW 2066 Australia    Phone: +61 2 911 3130
Where was I when the rope broke?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: Hitler and Christianity
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 14:41:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.223444.19219@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, 
billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
> ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson) writes:
> :   Thank you, though, for acting as appologist for all of the
> : Pagans out there who don't do ritual and who are offended by my
> : mentioning ritual in alt.pagan.  I'm hoping that there is a
> : sufficiently large number of Pagans in alt.pagan who do consider
> : ritual an important facet of their religion that they'll get the
> : joke and maybe get a laugh or two out of it.
> 
> Oh, I don't think any are upset about the mention of ritual. The
> ones that were upset, including me, were the ones that did not
> like your definition of Paganism.
> 

[deleted ...]

> :   That I was getting these nasty letters at the time that I was
> : first trying to get a handle of what alt.pagan is about has,
> : admittedly, left me rather touchy about posting here.  Especially
> : since there's a good chance that any post I make will earn me
> : a couple of week's worth of responses (public and private)
> : reminding me that I'm practicing a lifestyle, not a religion.
> 
> Well, you are practicing a lifestyle. Whether that lifestyle consists
> totally of your religion is a matter only you can decide and define.
> To others, their religion is only part of their life - as such, they
> object to the restrictive definition that you have used.
> 

  You still seem to think that my talking about my religion
places dogma upon others.

  I am content with the thought that there's lots of you who
do not like my description of my religious practice.  I'm used
to that.

  But I'm not going to stop calling myself a Pagan.

  Bill, what is your objection to my calling myself a Pagan and
saying that my religion is Paganism?

  Please be specific in describing how my definition of myself
is a definition of others.

  Blessed be, Ciaran.

  $uslinit; include oblig.sig <<
  "...And here, Queen Aphrodite, pour heavenly nectar into gold
   cups, and fill them gracefully with sudden joy."  -- Sappho >>
From: mad@spirit.spirit.clearpoint.com (Michael Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Republicans & Propaganda
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:52:34 GMT
	<MAD.92Sep2143650@spirit.spirit.clearpoint.com>
	<1685790A9.PA142138@utkvm1.utk.edu>
Organization: Walking Dead Man Bar and Grille


Nancy> == (Nancy Proctor)
Mike>  == (Michael Davis)

Nancy> In article <MAD.92Sep2143650@spirit.spirit.clearpoint.com>
Nancy> mad@spirit.spirit.clearpoint.com (Michael Davis) writes:


>Nancy> I ran across a couple of quotes the other day   that I thought might
>Nancy> interest folks here in light of the threads dealing with Fascisim
>Nancy> and Republicans.

Mike>[specific Hitlerian ravings deleted]

Mike> I think I see where you want our thoughts to end up after reading your
Mike> post: Hitler say some things and was a Nazi.  Republicans say some
Mike> similar things.  Therefore Dan Quayle is a Nazi.

Nancy> Dear Michael,

Nancy> No, dear, that was not at all what I was intending.  I deliberately placed
Nancy> little smirky faces at the end of my own comments in the hope that people
Nancy> reading would not make the error of thinking that I was trying to draw an
Nancy> analogy of that sort.  I would only be tempted to imply such nonsense
Nancy> if I was talking to extremely foolish people and wanted to confuse them.
Nancy> (admitedly I have been known to do that when in my cups but only for the
Nancy> entertainment value of discussing serious matters with others in a
Nancy> similar state)
Nancy> From reading the posts on alt.pagan, I have determined that there are very few
Nancy> foolish folks on this net.

Seems you found one who, hopefully briefly, fits the mold.  Stuffed
crow witha side of humble pie for me, please...

Nancy> I merely found the statements interesting and thought that others might be
Nancy> interested, as well.


Mike> more, now irrelevant, stuff


Nancy> Since you have made false assumptions regarding my intentions, I see no
Nancy> point commenting further on these statements. They were obviously prompted
Nancy> by a misunderstanding.

Glad to have come to an agreement with you.

Nancy> Calm down, relax,  Obviously my little smirky faces were not enough to
Nancy> avoid misinterpretation. If anyone could tell of of another way to make
Nancy> sarcasm more clear in my postings, I'd certainly appreciate the info.

Rereading the original post after your reply to mine, it does seem a
little clearer.  Conveying proper emotional tone on a screen is a bit
difficult, and good communication requires effort at both ends.  I got
lazy on my end, and decided to assume instead of ask.  I hope now that
a little bit of my karmic burden has been lifted.  Thanks for the
lesson (no smiley).


Nancy> Have a lovely day,

Nancy> Nancy Proctor
Nancy> ///////////////////////////////
Nancy> Nancy Josephine Proctor . . . . PA142138@UTKVM.UTK.EDU

Nancy> "It is not the answer that enlightens, but the question."
Nancy>                                  Eugene Ionesco

Nancy> ////////////////////////////// . . .


Blessings and Humility

--
-mad

Michael A. Davis		mad@spirit.clearpoint.com

Clearpoint Research Corp. / 135 Parkwood Drive / Hopkinton, MA 01738
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Subject: Re: Canada
Originator: bbooth@bcrks6
Reply-To: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd, Ottawa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:08:34 GMT


Tammy Stark Blandino writes:
> Shava Nerad Averett writes...
> >Gee, I have a brother in Bellingham, WA...  I really like Vancouver.  Anyone
> >wanna look into a pagan diaspora to BC if the elections go badly in November?
> > 
> >/* almost serious, but wish I weren't */
>
> Is Canada any better?

Well, our crime rate is much lower.  Most people don't feel the need to carry
a firearm... even in our largest city, Toronto.

But more importantly, Canada is a multicultural country, and as such has 
written laws in its Charter of Rights to permit freedom of religion.  Heck,
there's even been a debate in this country about our national anthem being
sexist and religiously oriented... all this started due to our new Charter
of Rights and Freedoms.  This is the same document that struck down our
abortion law as being unconstitutional.

We're not perfect, but with the major "morality" and "family values" squads
running around in the US, we at least seem to have something to protect our-
selves with (the Charter).


Just my thoughts,

    __o     Brad Booth              | "If somebody feels really good
  _`\<,_    Bell-Northern Research  |  about who they are, they don't
 (*)/ (*)   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |  feel threatened by what other
----------  bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca  |  people are." - Dr. M. Rubenstein
From: popec@fennec.sccsi.com (PopeC)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: [mo [7mum7mP[mot, [7mL[m
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 10:06:20 CDT
Organization: Rivendell BBS / Hou, TX. / +1 713 941 2236

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From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Canada (was: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:31:29 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.220149.8878@samba.oit.unc.edu> shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett) writes:
>Gee, I have a brother in Bellingham, WA...  I really like Vancouver.  Anyone
>wanna look into a pagan diaspora to BC if the elections go badly in November?

Yes.  I am not quite totally serious yet, but getting there.

Blessings,
Janis the Concerned
From: gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Masons/Knights Templar
Date: 30 Aug 92 13:37:58 GMT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

I have also read that the Masons are descendents of the Knights Templar.  
They are Luciferians (note that is NOT the Christian SATAN).  They are a 
very pagan organization, or at least were.  I know my Father and my very 
christian Uncle are both members of the Masons.  My uncle was 32nd Level 
Mason, yet, doesn't realize that the Masons are NOT christian.   My 
father doesn't know that it's a pagan organization (or was).  I wonder of 
(of=if) all masons are as blind as this, or are there some "real" masons 
out there?
 
Gerda Thunarsson

------------------
gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson)
(Alternate) gerda%brewich@lobster.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Leaving the country for.....Alaska
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 11:05:00 GMT


Has anybody thought about Alaska.  I mean nobody in the lower
48 ever thinks about Alaska as a real place where people live.
{:-)}  It would probably be a great place for pagans.

If Walter and I ever finish our degrees we'll probably
go there.  I really find it alluring.

--Tammy--
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Aug28.005135.19419@peponi.wcc.govt.nz> 
	<1992Aug28.064506.1882@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au>
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 03:23:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.064506.1882@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au> 
pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Peter Alexander Merel) writes:
>If you're looking for freedom from bureaucratic and political
>repression you won't find it here, or anywhere. Look at it this way:
>Utopia, should it exist for even a little while, will attract all
>kinds of suckers and parasites. It will then cease to be utopia. 
>The only real alternative is to keep utopia secret.  Treat the
>vicissitudes of your neighbours, their property and laws as you would a
>ferocious pack of babboons - with caution and tolerance. You can't
>enlighten the masses; they don't want enlightenment. You can only do
>your best by you and yours, keep your head down, and focus on the
>beauty in the world. If you can do that you will live well.

A-Yep, that's dharma for you. Live the best life you can, the time will
come to leave soon enough. Heaven is right here, right now, right where
you are, only most don't see it for what it is. Hell is not seeing
Heaven for what it is. Turn your inward pointing energy outward and turn
the outward energy inward, it's all the same thing. It really has been
here all along, it is just difficult to recognize in haste.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan