HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rogers@rosencrantz.osf.org (Andrew Rogers)
Subject: Re: Pong
Organization: HICAM/OSD
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 19:55:51 GMT

From article <john.711219891@csrnxt1.ae.utexas.edu>, by john@csrnxt1.ae.utexas.edu (John R. Schutz):
> 
> Gimme yer knowledge/rumors/innuendo/dirty laundry/etc on anything that
> even remotely has to do with Pong.  Please.

The Fall, 1990 issue of _Journal of Inventions and Technology_ (or something
like that - my copy's at home) has a brief blurb on the original Pong inventor.

Get back to me with a US Mail address and I'll send you a photocopy.

AWR
From: sandee@Think.COM (Daan Sandee)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: giga-
Date: 30 Jul 1992 21:14:52 GMT
Organization: TMC
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com

In article <1992Jul30.051912.19658@public.sub.org>, peterk@public.sub.org (Peter Kittel) writes:
|> 
|> I think we must consider where this word "giga" comes from. When I'm not
|> seriously in error, it is a greek word and is definitely pronounced "giga"
|> with a hard g.

Uh, yes, it's from Classical Greek gigas (-ntos,n.: giant). According to
what we think of how the Greeks pronounced it in their time, it would be
about the same as modern German. However, in MODERN Greek, it is "yeega"
(sort of. There's a bit more to the Greek soft g than just a consonantal y.)
The vowel should definitely be long, though. Like in German. Common American
pronunciation is with a short vowel.

Daan Sandee                                           sandee@think.com
Thinking Machines Corporation
Cambridge, Mass 02142                                 (617) 234-5044
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: Unix Roots of DOS?
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:02:42 GMT

jon%vector0.UUCP@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Dazed N. Confused) writes:

>     Ah, but what Unix can run V. Buerg LIST.COM, hmm?  Whenever
>cd'ing through a zillion user work directories, I sure wish there
>was a port of it..

Funny - when I'm using LIST.COM, I always wish I had 'less'.  (In more ways
than one!)

-- 
Paul Tomblin, pt@geovision.gvc.com or {uunet,revcan}!geovision!pt
(This is not an official opinion of GeoVision Systems Inc.)
I used to homebrew computers, now I homebrew beer.  Is this progress?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re:  Computer Relics (Was: 9 track data storage?)
From: liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood)
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:21:45 GMT+12
Distribution: world
Organization: It's Home, really...

In article <1992Jul27.192741.16732@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> aduell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Tony Duell) writes:
>
>Talking of old storage, how many still use 8" floppies (I have them on my
    The Unisys DCP/40 front-end processors at work boot from 8 inch floppies
which (I think...) are single-sided and maybe single density...
--
 Liam Greenwood ------ liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz ------ Wanganui, N.Z.
                Don't tell my Mother I'm a programmer,
              she thinks I'm a piano player in a brothel

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: 9 track data storage???????????????READ/NEW/FOLLOWUP
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:14:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.163622.8180@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM> rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Robert Bernecky) writes:
>time a reel of tape went tearing past my head at warp speed.
>
>The hub grabber had broken during high-speed rewind, and the tape
>reel had somehow smashed through the glass door of the tape drive
>and headed across the room at a very healthy clip. Luckily,
>nobody was in its trajectory, as it did considerable damage to the
>wall it eventually hit...

I have heard of apocryphal stories about FastRand drums getting loose while 
spinning and mowing down whatever was in its path.  Anyone out there
can relate to a specific story?

cjl


Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: bmarcum@world.std.com (Bill Marcum)
Subject: Re: Unix Roots of DOS?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 23:13:39 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.144803.25174@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> 9125113g@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Mitch Davis) writes:
>
>CP/M programs could exit by doing a RET, and the IBM has maintained this
>tradition.  On startup, all .COM programs have a 0000 already pushed
>onto the stack for this very purpose.  The RET causes a branch to CS:0,
>which always has an INT 20.
>
>I occasionally use this when a .COM program MUST be as small as
>possible.
>
>Try it!  Can you get any shorter, or an equal alternative?
>
>Mitch.

In CP/M you can have a zero length COM file by typing SAVE 0 FILE.COM .
Executing FILE.COM would re-run whatever program was loaded last.  Is there
an equivalent in MS-DOS?

Bill Marcum  (lost in the stone age)  bmarcum@world.std.com

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: thayne@unislc.uucp (Thayne Forbes)
Subject: Re: Data General
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:56:07 GMT

From article <1992Jul28.143944.11045@news.columbia.edu>, by gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener):
> Back in the late 70's and early 80's, I remember visiting an office where 
> they had a Data General machine that was used for accounting purposes.
> It was single rack that was about 6' or so high, and one thing I remember
> about it was its disk drive.
> 
> The drive was a drawer that pulled out of the machine.  You would remove
> the "disk pack" by turning a handle and pulling it straight up.  You'd
> put in another by dropping it in and turning the handle until it locked
> into position.  You'd then close the drawer.
> 
> My question:  Can anyone tell me how much storage these things probably had?

I was just about to feel sorry for myself, because although I have lived
thru most of the history discussed (well, some), I can not remember enough
to contribute.  Then your question.  
   My first 'Real' job was writing accounting applications on the machine
you discribe.  Actually the disks did not lock in by twisting, they had
a little trigger on the top of the handle which allowed you to release
the disk.  The disks held 5 MB each.  The other interesting thing about
them was that they were sensitive to mis-alignment.  This led to a few
interesting problems.  We were in the habit of driving out to a customer
site with a disk or two of new code to patch a problem.  Occasionally
during the summer the platters would expand enough so that they were
out of alignment when you got to the customer site.  Solution: put them
in the fridge for five minutes and have a coke.  The other thing I liked
was that they had to keep one of the techs on the payroll in spite of his
rather significant Herb usage, because he was the only person they could
find who could reliably fix and re-align the drives.

    Ah, to be a teen again.

-- 
           "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
                            -U.S. Vice President J. Danforth Quayl[e]
Thayne Forbes
thayne@unislc.slc.unisys.com
From: kraig@biostr.washington.edu (Kraig Eno)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: IBM vs. world terminology (was: What does dd stand for?)
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:25:04 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes:

>>Why is it that MVS terminology is so different from the rest of the
>>world? Look at a few examples:
>Standard terminology wasn't as well defined back then,
>and IBM happened to choose a term which didn't become a de facto standard.

Yes, some people think that when your terminology doesn't match that of
the majority, you should adjust to the world around you.  But if your
company is a majority of one, then I guess de facto standards
aren't that important. :)

>IPL == Initial Program Load.  Older IBM systems just used the word "LOAD"
>for the function; can anyone on the net provide information about the
>prevelence of the word "boot" on other systems?

I believe "boot" is short for "bootstrap", which is shorthand for the
phrase "pulling yourself up by your boot straps."  Some users around
here talk about "booting" Microsoft Word, which isn't really correct IMO;
the term applies to loading an OS.  Back in the days before ROM (and before
I was on the scene) you had to use front-panel switches to toggle in the
instructions for loading the OS off disk; in effect, you told the CPU how
to load a disk block, and it loaded a short code segment and jumped to it;
that code was what actually loaded the operating system.  So it was very
much like pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, in that no outside help
was available.

I've always liked that aspect of computer science: it's a young discipline,
so many of the "official" terms are friendly and immediate instead of being
cold and distant.  Compare "floppy disk", "menu", "window", with some terms
in chemistry ("solute", "polyester") or medicine ("myocardial infarction",
"corpus striatum") where even the acronyms stand for Latin half the time.
I know, I know, there are exceptions -- like "modem" in computer world and
"buckyball" in chemistry -- but nowhere but in CSci do I see the official use
of offhand terms like "widget", "bug", "branch", "tree", "flag", "overflow",
"string", "stack", "loop", "jump", "fork", "deadlock" and "garbage collection".
Where else but the computer world would you talk about a "core dump", which
evokes images of a load of bits falling out of memory and onto the ground
like so much popcorn?  Or a system that's "thrashing"?

Kraig Eno, kraig@biostr.washington.edu
Blackberries are wonderful.  Not only do they taste good, but they grow like
weeds along the side of the road so you can pick all you want for free.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: More license places
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:27:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.190939.16346@javelin.sim.es.com> gfowler@javelin.sim.es.com (Gary Fowler) writes:

}I saw one in Salt Lake City:
}BITMAN
}Either this person works with computers or horses.

Or he's the local dog catcher. (-:

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: Unix Roots of DOS?
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:21:55 GMT

In article <DOUGM.92Jul26220456@bradbury.cns.caltech.edu> dougm@cns.caltech.edu (Doug McNaught) writes:
>In article <1992Jul25.144803.25174@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> 9125113g@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Mitch Davis) writes:
>
>   The shortest possible program for the IBM is one byte long, and can be
>   created thus:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that program is 512 bytes long or longer.
The smallest file on MS-DOS is one cluster, which is hopefully 512 bytes
such as on a floppy.  On hard disks, it's larger, typically 2048 bytes.

Just because there is a byte count in the file doesn't make it take any
less time to load into memory or take up any less space when in a normal
executable form.  (When archived, it will take up one byte though.)

cjl
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: 9 track data storage???????????????
From: don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes)
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:52:56 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Wolery

peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
> You don't want to know what a TK50 is. Probably the worst cartridge design
> for tape transport ever.

You mean only a bit more reliable than 8mm?

I've used TK50s for years, admittedly not beating them up for the main 
backups (we used 9track), but I'm yet to see a TK50 fail, or even fail to
load.  I've seen *lots* of 9tracks fail to load, or crap out in various
interesting ways.  

For low-speed, low volume storage, TK50s aren't too bad.

Now, the TU58 is something that should never have happened.....

--
Don Stokes, ZL2TNM (DS555)                        don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (home)
Network Manager, Computing Services Centre            don@vuw.ac.nz (work)
Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand              +64-4-495-5052
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Keywords: workstation, hacking, risks
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:33:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.073026.1432@iti.gov.sg> hcleong@iti.gov.sg (Leong Heng Cheong) writes:

}That's all fine and wonderful, but get this: not only do I have a watch
}that is analog, it also has both 24 hr and 12 hr mode together.  Beat
}that.

When mine's in 24 hour mode it still has 12 hour mode on the analog face
with 24 hr on the digital face -- except it's really _all_ digital.  The
analog face is part of the LCD.

(And it's got a stopwatch with split times and a count-down timer and a
date display and a calendar display [this month and next] and a day
display and 4 [count 'em] 4 alarms [Dixie, Clementine, Greensleaves and
beeper] and two time zones [arbitrary] that it can display simultaneously
and an incandescent lamp for night use).

Ha!  Beat that! (-:

(Then there's my Swiss Army(tm) knife -- Swiss Champ, of course ...)

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: wex@cs.ulowell.edu (Paul M. Wexelblat)
Subject: PDP's (was  thread of Re: Terminal intrinsics)
Originator: wex@cs.ulowell.edu
Reply-To: wex@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: Univ. of Lowell CS Dept.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:35:24 GMT


In article <1992Jul29.225815.23485@news.columbia.edu>, lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

|> In article <1992Jul29.195534.16441@ulowell.ulowell.edu>  I wrote:
|> >
|> >PDP is Not a synonym for PDP-11
|> >
|> >Some of us have programmed other PDP machines
|> >(1,6,7,8,9,11,12,16, and, of course, the -10) [the -20 was a DECSYSTEM]
|> 
|> You forgot 4,5,14,15.  I once saw a 4, used a 5, have thrown around the room 
|> the blacK modules from the -14, and heavily used a -15.
|> 
|> The -20 is sometimes a -10 depending on the color.

As I indicated, those were the PDP machines I have programmed

The -20 was, in fact -10 hardware with a real pager box, but DEC
Never sold anything called a PDP-20, while they did sell a PDP-10 (or two)

{Let's see, let's take a PDP-10, add a pseudocopy of the BBN pager,
run BBN's TENEX on it and call it a -20.}  {Oh yes, we gotta take
the DECtapes off too.  -- anyone else remember DECtape swapping,
SYS: on DECtape, monitor distribution on DECtape, Level C?}

More core available -- but not for you!
-- 
If God had intended us to vote, He would have given us candidates.

	...Wex
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Unix Roots of DOS?
From: ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Thomas Koenig)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 09:29:42 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

a very thorough discussion about how the different (MS|DR)-DOS - Version
deal with all the memory there may or may not be on a system, what drivers
they use etc.

That reminds me of a few definitions I some time ago, in an article:

Expanded Memory: Memory over 1 MB which is not Extended Memory
Extended Memory: Memory over 1 MB which is not Expanded Memory
Extended Expanded Memory: Memory over 1 MB which is neither Expanded Memory
or Extended Memory

The author then went on to define a Terabyte as measurement of disk space
which is so stunningly huge that the average Windows user needs ten
(that's a one with ONE zero!) days to fill it up with applications.

*sigh* Why couldn't today's standard PC operating system be OS-9 with
maybe GEM on top?
-- 
Thomas Koenig, ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz, ib09@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
The joy of engineering is to find a straight line on a double logarithmic
diagram.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: syswtr@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: FASTRANDs?
Organization: Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Iowa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:21:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.151227.5024@tandem.com>, jime@Tandem.com (Jim Ellignsen) writes:
> I've never heard of a FASTRAND breaking loose and causing damage.  When
> I worked for UNIVAC we used to use FASTRANDs as a unit of measure as "in
> the house had a 6 FASTRAND basement".  How could something so big hold
> so little data?
> 
> Is it true or folklore that FASTRANDs, 432s,
> and 1782s were made from sewer pipes?
> 
> Jim Ellingsen    ellingsen_jim@tandem.com
>    
> 
  That it!  Now I remember the number, the old 1782...  Still makes
the high-class disks of today look slow (averag access was a little
over 4ms, and worst case was a little over 8ms)

Ah the good old days...
 (Back when men were men and sheep ran scared...

Willy
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.arch,comp.human-factors,comp.society.futures,comp.misc
From: wagner@utoday.com (Mitch Wagner)
Subject: net.views question -- obsolete desktops
Organization: Open Systems Today
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 00:15:49 GMT
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers

          What are some things you can do with an obsolete
          desktop system? We're talking about things like
          CP/M PCs, DEC Rainbows, Sun1s and so on. Can
          they still be made to do productive computing?

     This question is being posted to gather responses for a regular
opinion column in OPEN SYSTEMS TODAY called "net.views." 

     By sending an E-mail reply to the above question, you are
granting permission for us to publish your response. A compilation of the
responses to this post will be posted here about two weeks from today.

     Please include in your response your name, your employer or
university, your job title or class standing (that is to say, if you
identify yourself as a student, are you a freshman, sophomore, junior
senior, graduate student?), and a telephone number where you 
can be reached during the daytime (overseas readers note: that's daytime in 
North America).

     Please be brief; try to limit your responses to two screens
(24x80) of text, not including headers and other administrivia.
     
     Thanks!

--
Mitch Wagner, senior editor, Open Systems Today 
2353 Massachusetts Ave. Suite 47, Cambridge, MA 02140
wagner@utoday.com  CIS:70212,51  GEnie:MITCH.WAGNER
For subscription information, please call 516/562-5882

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Re: IBM vs. world terminology (was: What does dd stand for?)
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:16:00 GMT

In article <1838@adagio.UUCP> grog@adagio.UUCP (Greg Lehey) writes:
 
Referring to core dump and abends. . .

>Certainly an external event wasn't the only way to get one of these
>piles of paper: most exceptions would do the same thing. And I could
>have sworn that there was an SVC to abend your program.

You are correct, and if my fading memory serves me correctly, it was
SVC 13.  
nb:  SVC = SuperVisor Call = a programmed interrupt which caused a context
     switch, usually used by an application runing in problem state to
     request that the nucleus (IBMish for kernal) do something which
     required supervisor state, such as an i/o operation. 

-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: adam@owlnet.rice.edu (Adam Justin Thornton)
Subject: Re: Hacker stranded in the backwoods needs help
Organization: Milo's Meadow
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:00:01 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.044002.19418@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>In article <1hBhh3#43KvqF29NwmS4zC1sR4zpjhT=esr@snark.thyrsus.com> esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:
>>net.  We owe it to ourselves to give him a hand.
><clap> <clap>
>cjl

My God, man!  He said a hand, not a pair of venereal diseases!

Myself, I'm just waiting for someone to post the hand from 
Figure 1.  ;-)

Adam

Ob. folklore: anyone know if TI still carries Editor/Assembler
and Extended BASIC manuals for the 99/4A ?
-- 
"Man is conceivied in sin and born in corruption and he passeth from the
 stink of the didie to the stench of the shroud.  There is _always_
 something." -- Robert Penn Warren | Vote Cthulhu in '92! | adam@rice.edu
If Rice shared my opinions I wouldn't have this disclaimer | 64,928
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: rabel@netcom.com (Robert Abeles)
Subject: Re: Cathode ray memory
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 00:28:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Summary: Description of Williams Tube Memory 
Keywords: Williams Tube Memory Cathode Ray 

IBM employed the Williams Tube Memory, named for its inventor F.C. Williams
of the University of Manchester, in their earliest commercial digital          
computers. Williams employed a phenomenon known as "secondary emission" to
achieve the storage of binary data in a high quality CRT. By writing a small
spot on the phosphor surface with the electron beam, a positively charged area
is formed due to the secondary emission of a larger number of electrons than
were written by the beam. When a second spot is written close to the positively
charged spot, the secondary emission from the second spot fill the first spot.
Binary data is encoded by the presence or absence of the second spot in each
spot pair. A metal plate on the face of the tube is connected to an amplifier
and shaping circuit. When a reading beam strikes a spot pair, a negative or 
positive voltage at the plate is interpreted as a zero or one.

The IBM 701 employed 72 CRTs with a capacity of 1024 bits each. This yielded 
a total system storage of 2048 36-bit words.

-- 
--------------------------------------
- Bob Abeles, rabel@netcom.com       -
--------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Unix Roots of DOS?
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:18:49 GMT

pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin) writes:
>jon%vector0.UUCP@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Dazed N. Confused) writes:

>>     Ah, but what Unix can run V. Buerg LIST.COM, hmm?  Whenever
>>cd'ing through a zillion user work directories, I sure wish there
>>was a port of it..

>Funny - when I'm using LIST.COM, I always wish I had 'less'.  (In more ways
>than one!)

Me too, so I wrote one.  I really had only two needs: two-way
scrolling and good performance.  Both were easy to satisfy.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Keywords: workstation, hacking, risks
Date: 25 Jul 92 23:52:21 GMT
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <1992Jul24.181837.23858@doug.cae.wisc.edu> kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad) writes:
 > In article <1992Jul24.094701.29178@cv.ruu.nl> anton@cv.ruu.nl (Anton H.J. Koning) writes:
 > >  Not only do I have it in 24 hour mode, my watch also includes both a
 > >  scientific and a programmer's (hex, oct, dec, bin) calculator. I know
 > >  this immediately disqualifies me as a real hacker, because they don't
 > [need]
 > >  hex calculators ;-)
 > 
 > Sure they do.  What else would we all use our HP-16C's for?  (And poor Casio
 > and TI imitations, for that matter!)

I do not understand.  What is the purpose of dc?  (And if you want to get
fancy bc?)  Now indeed, my watch can also be used as a calculator, though
I never used it as such.  (And it has an alarm which I do not use either.
What I hate most is when you are in a meeting and at 16:00 all those
hourly alarms go off.  Now, if they where synchronous...)
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland
dik@cwi.nl