HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: crobertson@mta.ca
Subject: Re: Modulations
Reply-To: crobertson@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:58:11 GMT

In article <1k3n4cINNpnk@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>, darrin@shopsun.engin.umich.edu (Darrin P Cardani) writes:
>
>I was working on a piece recently when I realized that it wasn't
>going anywhere interesting. I thought about putting in some modulations,
>as I noticed that I rarely do that in anything I write.
>
>So my question is this: What are good ways to modulate to other keys?
>Where is this usually used?
>
>The only ways I know of off the top of my head, are to try things 
>like, IV - V7/V - V, or V - V7/vi - VI. This is good, it works, but
>it doesn't sound right in all cases. 
>
>Any cool ideas? Thanks for your help.
>
>					Darrin Cardani
>darrin@engin.umich.edu


---You can use secondary chords other than V leading to their most common
resolution (ii/vi -> V/vi); deceptive cadences that lead become the tonic in
the new key. If you add a 7th, in the melody especially, on a tonic chord it
becomes V7/IV; using borrowed and Neopolitan chords to relate the current key
to others is also effective; sequences are very common as well (take a chord
progression and move it around through different keys without reallu
modulating.     ii  V  I       ii  V  I         ii  V  I
                --------       --------         --------
                  ii             V                  I

A less traditional way might be to just experiment with unrelated keys that
have one pitch in common with the actual chord you want to modulate from and go
from there. This adds an element of surprise to me composition, but can be a
little strange if you're looking for a sing-a-long type pieces. Anyway, there's
millions of ways to modulate, so your best bet is to find a music theory book
somewhere and see what's around.---
	-CMR-
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: What Is Modern "Chuckle" Theory?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:16:54 GMT

In article <BURLEY.93Jan26141110@apple-gunkies.gnu.ai.mit.edu> burley@apple-gunkies.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Craig Burley) writes:
>I've seen, but not read, postings with the subject "Modern <Chuckle> Theory"
>here lately, and I suddenly realized I wasn't so sure I knew what it meant.

"Modern Chuckle Theory" refers to the study of How to Appear to be a
Charles Wourinen Protege.  "Early Chuckle Theory" refers to the study
of How to Appear to Be a Charles Ives Protege.
-Matt
Xref: sparky rec.music.compose:765 rec.music.country.western:4848 rec.music.dementia:2202
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose,rec.music.country.western,rec.music.dementia
Subject: NEW GROUP PROPOSAL: rec.music.acappella
From: bcimmet@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 21 Jan 93 01:20:25 EST
Organization: Wesleyan University

-- 
	I am posting again with regards to my proposal for a new Newsgroup
concentrating on a cappella music. I have had a lot of positive response, but I
have also had many questions, so I thought I'd try to answer them here.
Apologies if you are reading this more than once... I'm posting it in many
places.
        "a cappella" is a term that loosely means "without accompaniment." It
is Italian and refers to the style of music sung in chapels (cappella)
centuries ago. Works were performed without accompaniment, and today the term
refers to any music without instrumental assistance, and is not specificall
located to the church.
	There are many types of a cappella music. Some of the more common are
madrigals, classics, and religious music. However, there are many a cappella
groups that specialize in jazz, rock, popular, blues, African, Indian,
alternative, etc.
	I would hope that the newsgroup would not focus on one aspect of a
cappella music, but be spread across the field of choices. It can be used as a
bulletin board to advertise traveling groups, as a source of information for
members of groups, and I believe that (as a member and fan), I could spend
hours discussing this stuff with other people.
	I hope that there are many more of you interested in this, and if you
are, spread the word around. I'm going to be trying to get this officially set
up sometime soon, and I will keep everyone posted on the updates. PLEASE send
me any response you might have to my email address below. Don't just post
reactions to the newsgroups, because I don't get to read all of them all the
time, and I don't want to miss your reply. Thank you for your interest!

					- Brian Cimmet

 =============================================================================
 ||     Brian "Medford" Cimmet      ||      BCIMMET@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU      ||
 =============================================================================
 ||   "Well, of all things, can it be peeling?  No, yes, Ohio! My eye..."   ||
 ||	- T.H. White's "Old Possum's Book of Practically Nothing"           ||
 =============================================================================
From: gnat@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Nathan Torkington)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Simple Question
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:17:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: kauri.GNAT.93Jan25101723
Distribution: rec
Organization: Contract to CSC, Victoria Uni, Wellington, New Zealand

What is meant when "chords of the fourth" are referred to?  Are they
chords built on the fourth note of the scale of the current key?

Yours,

Confused
(a.k.a Nat)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: happy birthday redux
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:21:15 GMT

My contact at ASCAP informs me that the (c) on Happy Birthday
is held until about 2010 by a division of Birchtree Holdings:

Sunny--Birchard
9000 Sunset Blvd.Penthouse
LA CA, 90069
310-273-3323

I gather this casts doubt on the idea (once seen in this space) that
Paul McCartney sold the copyright to Michael Jackson.
From: shansen@adobe.com (Steve Hansen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Sheet music
Summary: Looking for ftp sites with sheet music
Date: 25 Jan 93 04:31:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

Are there any ftp sites containing sheet music which is in the public
domain?

I'm interested in music for piano.
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: prichard@mksol.dseg.ti.com (John C Prichard III)
Subject: flaming comments
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:37:13 GMT


Foolish situations like the flaming of the poor soul who wrote the Chord
article are easy to handle for those using the Unix Mail reader "rn".

put the following line into your KILL file
/From: pieterh@sci/:j

The KILL file is located in 
.../News/rec/music/compose/KILL

rn basically opens the KILL file for this news group, looks for the
pattern and does the "junk" command

Check the rn manual.  Also ^k while reading the newsgroup will automatically
open/create this file and put you in the editor ready to go.

Lowers my blood pressure considerably!

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
 	John Prichard			prichard@mksol.dseg.ti.com	       
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: happy birthday redux
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:52:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.055327.23663@midway.uchicago.edu> hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.192115.11047@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>My contact at ASCAP informs me that the (c) on Happy Birthday
>>is held until about 2010 by a division of Birchtree Holdings:
>>
>>Sunny--Birchard
>>9000 Sunset Blvd.Penthouse
>>LA CA, 90069
>>310-273-3323
>>
>>I gather this casts doubt on the idea (once seen in this space) that
>>Paul McCartney sold the copyright to Michael Jackson.
___
>The name of the company is Summy-Birchard if I'm not mistaken.
>hugh

You're not.  Their number has been disconnected, no further information
is available, and directory assistance has never heard of them.  Is anybody
out there on Sunset Blvd.?  Could you please check whether they exist?



Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: pieterh@sci.kun.nl (Peter Herweijer)
Subject: Re: "Modern" <chuckle> theory question
Keywords: theory arrested
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 10:19:07 GMT

In <1993Jan20.135129.3780@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:

>In article <C13z1t.94p@sci.kun.nl> pieterh@sci.kun.nl (Peter Herweijer) writes:
>>                TATATAAAAAAA!  People of the net rejoice!
>>                 This man has just discovered INVERSION!

It is now clear to me that the original article was dead serious,
in contrast to what it seemed to me at the time.  I now regret my
rather flippant reply... we all have asked our share of elementary
questions.

>A brief aside to note that my pal Clint Bajakian has done music for video
>games for Lucasfilms, and he's a very fine composer on the side...

He's got anything to do with their iMuse system, about the only
bearable video game music system around?

>The word INVERSION is slippery because it refers to so many unrelated
>phenomenonae:
>
>2) Revoicing of a chord by transposing notes into different octaves;

This is what we're talking about. The context is clear enough.

Peter Herweijer
pieterh@sci.kun.nl
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: hcresnic@quads.uchicago.edu (hugh carney resnick)
Subject: Re: happy birthday redux
Reply-To: hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 05:53:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.192115.11047@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
>My contact at ASCAP informs me that the (c) on Happy Birthday
>is held until about 2010 by a division of Birchtree Holdings:
>
>Sunny--Birchard
>9000 Sunset Blvd.Penthouse
>LA CA, 90069
>310-273-3323
>
>I gather this casts doubt on the idea (once seen in this space) that
>Paul McCartney sold the copyright to Michael Jackson.

____
The name of the company is Summy-Birchard if I'm not mistaken.

hugh
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
Hugh C. Resnick at the U. o' Chicago 	email: hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu 
"Warum ist das Licht gegeben dem Mu"hseligen, und das Leben den Betru"bten?" 
___________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: "Modern" <chuckle> theory question
Keywords: theory arrested
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:22:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.153103.27751@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
>But I wouldn't say that you've got arrested development if you're just
>starting to experiment with inverted chords...We all come at this at
>our own pace, whenever the musical need arises.

I've still never gotten any information on "arrested" chords.  Maybe the
thought police put them under arrest for weltschmerz?  Nyuck, maybe this
is the way to do a gentle ribbing while at the same time maintaining an
encouraging attitude....Besides, Monteverdi never heard of inverted chords.
He'd have called them chords of the sixth, chords of the fourth, etc, and
not have made much of the fact that they had the same pitch class content
as chords of the fifth.
From: maverick@mahogany.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Modulations
Date: 26 Jan 1993 17:53:58 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mahogany.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1k3n4cINNpnk@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>, darrin@shopsun.engin.umich.edu (Darrin P Cardani) writes:
|> 
|> I was working on a piece recently when I realized that it wasn't
|> going anywhere interesting. I thought about putting in some modulations,
|> as I noticed that I rarely do that in anything I write.
|> 
|> So my question is this: What are good ways to modulate to other keys?
|> Where is this usually used?
|> 
|> The only ways I know of off the top of my head, are to try things 
|> like, IV - V7/V - V, or V - V7/vi - VI. This is good, it works, but
|> it doesn't sound right in all cases. 
|> 
|> Any cool ideas? Thanks for your help.
|> 
|> 					Darrin Cardani

For an obsessively complete catalog of modulations, look
at Schoenberg's _Harmonielehre_ (translated as _Theory of
Harmony_).

Its completeness and obsessive quality come from its
curious personal/historical background.  In the late
1700's, a music which depended on modulation for its form
-- Viennese classical sonata style -- had been developed
to a beautiful degree by Haydn and Mozart.  The next
century saw wide development in freedom of harmonic
movement, so wide that sonata style no longer really
worked; Schoenberg at the time of writing was an
excellent tonal composer working out a non-tonal way of
composing.  The _Harmonielehre_ can be read as the slag
he had to work off to achieve what he did as a composer.

Anyway, all this is by way of suggesting that the *real*
way to learn about modulation is to go to the music where
it matters most: Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven.  Any good
movement by these guys will have remarkable and
individual modulatory things to show at the key tonal
points: the move to the dominant, at the midpoint of the
exposition; possibly a return to the tonic at the end of
the exposition; the entire development section (e.g.
after the repeat in the first and last movements of
Mozart's symphony #40); the return to the tonic for the
recapitulation; and the passage which recapitulates the
move to the dominant, but which must, by convention,
remain on the tonic the last time around.

Good luck,
	Vance
From: sherman@ecadsr.enet.dec.com (My name is...)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: "Modern" <chuckle> theory question
Date: 19 Jan 93 16:29:28 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1jfa95INN1vs@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, archer@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Zog Archer) writes...
> 
>My friends and I have teamed up as an elite programmers's group, and are IIgs
>video game, which may be completed soon. My job so far has been to compose
>_all_ of the background music for it. Needless to say, I love composing,
>but I've never had any formal music instruction about theory or
>composition.  I simply have to sit down at a keyboard and play around
>until it sounds right, or until it sounds like one of the many musical
>"visions" I get in my head.
> 
>In the process of experimentation, I discovered a neat chord trick -- arrange
>a chord in the normal fashion, but then move the root note one octave
>higher. This is a nifty trick, and I've found many uses for this in my
>songs. Is this called an "arrested" chord??
> 
>-- ZOG

Um ... isn't this called a first inverted chord.  Second inversion would basically be
to do the second "trick" again.  If you think that's neat, try polychords ...  Anyway,
as you've probably guessed, chord inversion is one of the first things you get when
you take formal theory training.  Not that I've gotten much, myself.  I've gotten about
as much as they would let me take as a non-music major when I was in college.  I hired
a tutor for other stuff.  Now, I still feel like I'm struggling to "get it."

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: yjohn@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (John Ross)
Subject: Harmonizing
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:55:33 GMT

Hi Netters,

I wonder if some of you experienced composers could share some of your
methods, tricks, thoughts, etc on harmonizing a melody.  I'm particularly
interested in seeing how you go about setting chords to a melody.  Part
of what has prompted this question is an observation that most pop songs
have relatively few chord changes. On the other hand, in hymn books I
notice that the songs have many chord changes--in some cases practically
a chord change per note.  Why?  Any comments would be appreciated.

John
-- 
                               -<*>-
From: maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Modulations
Date: 27 Jan 1993 00:13:07 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fir.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1k3trm$m5t@agate.berkeley.edu>, maverick@mahogany.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick) writes:
|>
|> [recommends the Viennese classics as source of modulations]

For example, in the "Jupiter" Symphony, the return to the tonic at
the end of the development section of the last movement is from the
dominant of E minor to C.  Boiled down to four parts, here's what he
does, approximately one (snappy 2/2) measure per column:

           C   --  --  B   C
  F#  --   --  --  F   --  E
  D#  --   --  --  D   --  C
  B   A#   A   Ab  G   --  C
		   ^note funky parallel "5ths"

Pretty slick.  Another great Mozart example, too complex to boil down
this way, is from the C Major Quintet K. 515.  In the exposition,
before he has left C major, there's a phrase of several bars
(beginning C-A | G-F F F F | F in the first violin) which starts and
ends in C, with a middle in D-flat -- with a longer version in the
recapitulation getting as far as C# minor.

	Vance
From: bryguy@apple.com (bRYgUY K. Carter)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: 88-Key Weighted Keyboards - Which?
Date: 23 Jan 93 19:24:16 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.compose
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

Greetings Earth,

   I've been learning keyboards/piano for a year now.  I've been practicing
on a SY55.  I don't want to buy a piano.  They are too big and ya can't
take them with ya to a friend's place.
   So, I'm looking to purchase an 88-key weighted MIDI keyboard and/or
controller.  Some of the controllers that I've looked at don't really
appeal to me, save the Roland A-80 or the newer Peavy DPCM-8 (correct model
#?).  I did try the Korg 01/W ProX workstation.  This was a very nice unit.
   Admittedly, I don't know *what* I'm supposed to look for in a MIDI
controller.  Features, responsiveness of the weighted keys, etc.

I'm looking to invest around $2500.

Any insights?

bRYgUY K. Carter
"Life is rough.  Then you Fly or Fry." -- Oh no you don't...these words are
MINE!
email: bRYgUY@apple.com       ALINK: bRYgUY
Work : "Uh, bRY..."           Home : "Where is he now?"
Elsewhere: "Hey, you!"
From: evagold@titan.ucs.umass.edu (Eva Goldwater)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Notation Software
Date: 28 Jan 93 19:41:21 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.ucs.umass.edu


I am (also) looking for moderately-priced notation software.  It must be
able to manage several parts, lyrics, and unusual rythms (as in Bulgarian
folk music - 11/16 for example).  And it needs to be pretty easy to use -
my husband is the one who will be doing this, and if things don't work
guess who gets the heat.

My computer is old (8088);  I will consider an upgrade if it is essetial,
but would like to first explore what is available that will run on this
machine.  Any suggestions would be welcome.  Please include name/address/phone
of company as well as name of software.  If you can provide any 
information on how it works that would be great.  Specifically,

 - Does it require a synthesizer to enter the music?  If not, how cumbersome
is it to use a computer keyboard or mouse to enter music?
 - How good is the editing for the score or lyrics?  I have seen stuff where
if you inserted a note in the score you had to go back and move all the
subsequent measure bars manually;  or if you made a typo in the lyrics
you had to erase huge chuks of it in order to fix one letter.
  - Anything else that strikes you as relevent.

Thanks for any suggestions.   Eva Goldwater  (evagold@titan.ucs.umass.edu)
From: jvo@bdk.tue.nl (Jozef van de Vorst)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: advise comp tool
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:26:10 GMT
Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology

To me  a Composition Tool has to offer the ability to (p.e.):
     Build Libraries ( Scale, Rhythm, Chord ,,)
     Edit Score (no piano roll )
     Process Generate Rhythm
         Generate =
         RANDOM(1/4Rest(40),1/4Tone(30),1/4ToneTremolo(30))
         40,30,30 = probability distribution
         Tremolo = Repeat(1/RANDOM(6,8,9 ,,)
     Process Match Tone
         Match =   Mark Scale(s) in Library
                   Set Transpose = On/Off
                   Ask for "Tones"
                   Find Solution ( "Tones" = subset Marked Scales )
     Copy & Paste data between processes
Is there such a tool available or will I have to build it on my own,
and what are the best tools to fix this problem on MAC or DOS
machines ?
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: "Modern" <chuckle> theory question
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:09:35 GMT

In article <43997@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ejespers@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Erik Jespersen ) writes:
>----I think this can all be traced back to me; the first real
>response to the original article, and I'd like to quickly state my
>problems with the original article, that do pertain, at least
>tangentially to music composition.

And here I thought you were psychically prefiguring my posting regarding
composers, vegetarianism, and refined tastes when you asked for a
recipe for brownies.  But I don't suggest you try to visit 8 bars
in one night.  Especially not in Utah.

>	While the prime article was 'naive', the author assumed an
>air of pretension; self-aggrandizing and Claiming expertise.

Some day, you may be blessed with (or plagued by) beginning
non-music-major composition students (I personally always count them
as a blessing--but gosh, as I read over this statement, it makes me
feel old).  This is one of their more questionable charms, sometimes,
and is all too easily dismissed under the heading of "the silver
spoon."  Our confused cultures often speak of the artist who is
self-assured from the outset... and we dish up Phillip Glass and Andy
Warhol as examples of it (ok, flame me for saying that).  Glass lists
Arnold Schoenberg as one of his teachers.  Yes, he took counterpoint
with Schoenberg at UCLA, and got a C.  Big deal.  But it's hard to
make beginners see that they're not about to sell their score to the
Vienna Opera just because they can play three chords---so maybe they
should pay attention and figure out how to exploit their chords for
expressive purpose while learning some more chords.  After all, it
sure seems like P.G. did it.

>the inflated ego is perhaps the most prevalent and dangerous aspect
>of composition...

And gets in the way of music.  As does rum cake.



Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: elazarus@halcyon.com (Elliot Lazarus)
Subject: Seattle Composer Forum
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service +1 206 382 MAIL (382-6245)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:27:41 GMT
From: larryr@saturn.sdsu.edu (Larry Riedel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: "Modern" <chuckle> theory question
Date: 20 Jan 1993 05:24:05 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: saturn.sdsu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Peter Herweijer (pieterh@sci.kun.nl) wrote:
> > [...]
>
> Sorry for this piece of bad netiquette. I couldn't resist it. And,
> if you're serious about this (which I somehow doubt), do yourself a
> favor and read a beginner's theory book before you make a fool out
> of yourself again.

Funny but YOU seem like the fool to me.  You obviously know better
than to post this garbage, but you did it anyway.  There's nothing
wrong with naive postings, as long as they're pertinent to the
group, as the aforementioned article was.  It seems tough to be more
tactless than to flame a naive posting.


> I love to flame now and then.

Please don't do it here.  I don't want my postings or anyone else's
to be subject to ridicule by you because you deem them too elementary.


Larry
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose