HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga)
Subject: Re: Medieval Pain-in-the-Arse
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:27:42 GMT

CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CX6L000) writes:

>     The most disgusting perversions of free-spirited roleplaying
>have got to be: "quest" campaigns, where the campaign can only
>continue if all the PCs pursue the quest, despite the ludicrous
>assumptions that makes about human nature; "prophecy" campaigns,
>where the actions and role of the PC are predestined, and the
>player has no option but to accept the given role; and "historically
>accurate" campaigns, where the PCs have to all be of allowed social
>classes and backgrounds and follow the general thread of real
>history. Yawn.

That's your opinion, and you don't have to play in those campaigns
where those limits are interposed. However, some of us do find 
"historically accurate" campaigns interesting. This preference may
go against this concept of free-spirited roleplaying. If you need
free-spirited roleplaying, then find such a GM. Don't screw up
the campaign someone else is working hard on to enable others to have
fun in simply because it's not the campaign you'd like it to be.


>     To the original poster: try playing a Zoroastrian magician,
>or an African tribal doctor, or something equally weird. It's
>not a sign that *you* are a bad roleplayer! (Contrary to the
>response above.) If the GM can't deal with it, it is a sign *he*
>is a terrible GM.

Well, I'll differ with you on this. No one has a right to play 
any character who detracts from the general enjoyment of the 
game of any player, including the GM. If you aren't mature
enough to try to get along with the GM who is trying his/her
best to create a good time for everyone involved, then get
the hell out of the campaign. Bringing in a character just
for the purpose of irritating anyone isn't roleplaying, it's
childish. If you don't like the campaign, leave.


Axly

********************************************************************************
*   Axly      *  "Is Axly tough? Yes. Talented? Yes. Brave? Oh, certainly.     *
* Red Sword   *   He is also erratic, irresponsible, accident-prone, and a     *
*   Targa     *   constant threat to public safety. The trick is to keep him   *
*             *   pointed in the right direction. "                            *
*             *         -Niki                                                  *
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: tkelly@unix2.tcd.ie (Mithrandir)
Subject: This top 5 games thing
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:18:21 GMT

   Well, I've seen the comments to and fro, and I'm going to join in
just to see what people think.


    1) Vampire:The Masquerade. This game is the best I have ever seen
for atmosphere, intrigue, and tragic stuff. I also happen to be a vamp 
afficionado, which helps, but that is not the main reason I love this
game. Plus, people knock the system continually, but I find it quite
usable, with minimum effort.

   2) Cthulhu. It's the old reliable for an evening's horror on the
style of eldritch evils and so on.

   3) AD&D . It's known. By nearly everyone. And, regardless of titanic
cock-ups on the part of T$R, it can produce fine results.

   4) Shadowrun. The setting is great. The supplements are great, the
system is fairly tragic on occasions, but I will forgive this. It has a
great feeling to it.

   5) As a humourous game, begone Paranoia and Toon, roll on Tales from
the Floating Vagabond. It's relatively young, but it is immense fun.


  As for supplements, Hmmm... this is a bit harder.

   1)Outlaw for Rolemaster. Yep, yeehah! good ol' Wild West action,
gringos!

   2)Harlequin for Shadowrun. This adventure set intrigued our group
more than anything had in a long time, and the ending was interesting.

   3)A World of Darkness for V:TM. A very interesting read,
chock-a-block with loads of new ideas for the world of Gothic-Punk.

   4)Orient Express for CoC. One word: Excellent!
  
   5)I can't think of any other supplements that I'd call on-the-shelf
 for definite, but I'm sure there's plenty out there.

--
 Haggis: Haggis is a black pudding eaten by the Scots and considered not
only a delicacy, but fit for human consumtion.The minced heart, liver
and lungs of a sheep are mixed with oatmeal and boiled in the sheep's
stomach before ...Excuse me a minute... [Mithrandir/tkelly@unix2.tcd.ie]
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Stephen Gill)
Subject: Re: Call for "Straw" Votes: Rec.games.frp.campaign
Organization: Motorola
Date: 16 Nov 1992 04:58:52 CST

Wow a call for votes already.

I have only one problem with .CAMPAIGN, I still don't know what it's for.

Obviously if it's only for describing events that have happened in
campaigns then it's just trying to replace .ARCHIVE. However if it's more
orientated to PBEM then maybe a namechange would be useful, PBEM.CAMPAIGN
looks good to me.

What would be nice would be if it were chock full of campaign ideas,
outlines and peoples ideas on how to run campaigns. Something similar to
the way RPG mags were 10 to 15 years ago.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Gill, internet TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com  - imitation .sig file

These opinions are mine, mine all mine   nya,ha,ha !
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: davis@cwis.unomaha.edu (James J Davis)
Subject: Re: Vampire vs. Hero vs. Gurps etc...(Long!)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:21:10 GMT

In response to No One Of Importance, I would like to mention several things.

First, if a lack of rules is entertaining, why have any rules at all?  Would
not it be far more entertaining to have no rules then?  It would certianly
be less exepensive!  My complaint has not been about the lack of rules, but
the quality of the rules.  They are *bad*.  Considering that they could be
both simpler and better, I don't see any reason to use them.

VtM, to me, doesn't stress roleplaying any better than any other game.  It
seems the idea for pro-VtM netters is that by not having a rule on a subject,
this encourages roleplay.  Well, given the choice of having a rule and not
using it, or not having the rule, I choose the the former.  (In other words,
let's allow GURPS/Hero to 'wing it' if we allow VtM to do the same.  It is
only fair.)

As to looking up rules during a game session, I hate to say this, but there
was a lot more rules-looking during the VtM games I was in than in most Hero
games.  Why?  Vampire rules, while fewer, are not self-consistant, requiring
more rules-looks than normal.  Hero rules, although there are more, are first
more self-consistant and second mostly centered on character generation.
Therefore, I need to look rules up to rarely that I don't even bother to
bring a rulesbook to many of my games.  

I played Vampire, I entered with an open mind.  And, I was *horribly*
disappionted.  I am, first and foremost, a role-player.  After I found
that all systems essentially allow for the same level of roleplay, I
discovered that this meant you could have great roleplay AND great game
mechanics.  In other words, you can have your cake and eat it too.  Why
make a choice, like you have to when you play VtM?

Now, I know some games, like VtM, try to present themselves as superior
ROLE-playing games.  It's a very 'politically correct' thing to do.  I
only ask everyone to consider that system is independant of roleplay. 
Then, look at the *huge* realm of great roleplaying experiences, just
waiting to happen!  My arguements about VtM are only about it's mechanics.
It's a fine setting.  What amazes me, however, is that people who don't
supposedly care about mechanics should feel the need to respond to
mechanics-related posts.  I also find it amusing that more than one have
tried to imply that other games are ROLL-playing.  Seems like a petty
jibe to me.  If anything, let's dispense with that.

-james
From: bell@beethoven.cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Character Detail
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:30:10 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <1992Nov17.021949.15185@news.tufts.edu> gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.064507.11440@oz.plymouth.edu> sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan) writes:
>>Certainly not every character
>>will be as "powerful" as the next character - fortunately, that's not
>>an issue in my group.  We *are* balanced in that we all play
>>interesting characters that we want to play - and GURPS *does* allow
>>you to do that very well.

GURPS doesn't -- ignoring the rules allows you to do that.  If your
players are that "good" and non-munchkin, you don't need a character
creation system -- just make up the attributes and skills, and away you
go.  It's hardly a defense of the point allocation system that you can
not use it.

>>Come to think on it, though, I don't know any system that will create
>>very diverse individuals with talents in radically different areas that
>>will be perfectly balanced with each other.

Balance is certainly a fuzzy term.  However, there are clearly obvious
problems with the GURPS approach.  If point allocation is used with the
intent of "equalizing" beginning characters, it should not be possible,
save perhaps in extreme cases, for a character to be built from scratch
that is better in every respect than one that costs more points.  However,
in GURPS this is clearly possible.  Take eidetic memory.  From what I
understand, it lowers the point cost for learning new skills.  But those
skills are no less useful because they are learned faster due to the
character's good memory; in character creation, the bonuses for eidetic
memory should not apply.  You want a character with a good memory?  Buy
good memory and the skills, but you should *not* get the skills at a
cheaper price.  Likewise, aptitude for a sub-group of skills (as per
Fantasy folk?) should only apply to skills learned through non-point
mechanisms, such as training.

>Although DX is more useful than ST in *every* genre or campaign
>(except maybe some extremely bizarre & limited ones, like GURPS Powerlifting),
>they have the same cost, so generally people buy more DX than ST.  Moreover,
>the pricing philosophy varies from skills (difficulty) to stats (rarity) to
>advantages (utility), so that there really isn't a general rationalization 
>for what prices should be.

This is also a problem, and is actually a more difficult one;  exactly
how much "better" is dex than strength?

   -Andrew Bell
bell@cs.unc.edu
From: hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Medieval Pain-in-the-Arse
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:28:52 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

In article <1992Nov17.094703.1@wharton.upenn.edu>, millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes:
> Here are some ideas:
  ...deleted for brevity...

Then, of course, there is the Jester who tells such bad puns that nobody will
hire him. (Otherwise known as "Nobody's Fool". ;)
-- 
 Bob Hall                   |
 Boeing Computer Services   |  Behind every dark cloud,
 root@chicken.ca.boeing.com |  there's a Seattle Skyline.
From: meierdalepau@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re:  RPG's That Belong on Every Gamer's Shelf
Date: 22 Nov 92 09:47:23 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

1) Toon (Revised edition)--A good way to take your frustrations out on the 
players (or the GM).  It's also a good break from the serious stuff.

2) Star Wars:  The RPG (1st ed.)--Excellent for Star Wars fans and works 
good for some beginners because Star Wars is easily recognized in SF by a 
lot of people.  As for the 2nd ed., well, (IMO) it's only worth the $30.00 
if you've got the time on your hands and the ingenuity to come up with a 
decent conversion system.

3) D&D, AD&D, Rolemaster, Runequest, or Pendragon--I started out on D&D and 
never played any of the other four, but I've heard a lot of comments about 
them (some good, some not, and some, well, rather interesting).

4) Gamma World (any edition)--This game (IMO) outshines FGU's Aftermath and 
any other post-nukefest game (with the exception of Twilight:  2000) not 
only because its survived the longest, but because it concentrates more on 
the SF aspect of a post-nuke world, not the science fact of it.

5) Paranoia--Another excellent way to take your frustrations out on the 
players or the GM.  If you want to have some REALLY weird games, try 
crossing Toon with it.  Your Troubleshooters will never be the same.

FIVE RPG SUPPLEMENTS FOR EVERY GAMER'S SHELF

1) The Star Wars Sourcebook--A must for anyone who plays Star Wars:  The 
RPG.  It gives a general overview of the SW universe and stats on equipment 
the original rulebook doesn't list.

2) Rebel Alliance and Imperial Sourcebooks--Another must for SW:  The RPG 
players and GMs.  Gives more info on both sides in the war than The Star 
Wars Sourcebook does.

3) The Tooniversal Tour Guide--Great for playing spoofs of Mekton, Car 
Wars, and D&D.

4) Gamma Knights (boxed set)--Excellent in the way of artifact stuff in the 
GW world.

5) Acute Paranoia--Although it's a first edition supplement, a lot of the 
stuff is still useful for the second edition.  Gives some nifty rules for 
'bot PCs in pre-Crash Alpha Complex.

	Well, that's my $.02 worth.

Dale Meier
From: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advantages
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:47:39 GMT
Reply-To: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Organization: Department of Chemistry, UCLA

In article <1992Nov11.171122.5101@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, cassidy@cps.msu.edu (John J Cassidy) writes:
>In article <17221@mindlink.bc.ca> Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow) writes:
>>
>>Oh, I see.  The "simple" GURPS system is even more complicated than I
>>thought. Not only do you have to check attributes and
>>advantages/disadvantages, you may have to add numbers in game time...or does
>>the player write down "WILL = <number calculated from advantage level and IQ
>>and anything else that applies>"?
>>
>>Sounds kludgey to me.  :)
>>
>>--
>>
>>Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
>
>	To use your own words, I guess that calculation of adding a
>single digit number ( 90% of the time ) to a double digit number--
>almost always under 20 -- is a bigger problem if you ROLL-play.

But wait, sometimes you have to SUBTRACT!  The HORROR!

I don't see why anyone has a problem with just writing this on the sheet, next
to either IQ or the advantage/disadvantage, whichever you prefer.  I mean, some
other system (which I shall not name) requires you to multiply things by
1/(1+n) before the game starts....


-Doug Gibson
 doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu

Neither UCLA nor the National Science Foundation has a clue what I am doing.
They just pay me to do it.

"We have to tear you to shreds because we care." - EAC
From: gm1116@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: 5 games
Reply-To: gm1116@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 07:51:28 GMT

Let's see...  The 5 games I would choose

1> AD&D - 1st addition
	Hey, sue me for being a traditionalist.  I gre up on the system,
I KNOW the system inside out(without knowing the monsters inside out,
just the rules)
When I want to run a quick game I've got loads of expereince and can throw
together a FUN(which is all that really matters) game on the fly

2> GURPS 
	I HATE the system but their supplements are some of the best out there.
Also, the stuff in the system is EASILY converted to HERO and many other
games

3> HERO
	What can I say?  I like it and it works for everthing but stating up
devices.

4> uh ohh, runniing out of room.  forget five, let's make it six
4> CYBERPUNK
	why?  I LOVE cyberpunk.  Its great.  Its flexible, you can take
a vyberpunk charector and convert him to HERO, shadowrun, gurps, or cyberspace
and the supplements for cyberpunk are AWESOM.
Important note, that CYBERPUNK,  not that sissy game Cyberpunk 2020

5> Cyberspace
	The rules are a bit to complicated for my tastes, but the concepts
in the rule book alone are worth it.  Add a couple supplements and its
perfect!

6> Shadowrun
	nice ideas for cyberpunk, after subtracting the hocus pocus


hmm, supplemets, since I'm in my cyberpunk faze

A> Chicago Arcology by I.C.E. for cyberspace

B> Death Valley Free Prison by I.C.E. for cyberspace

C> Street Samurai Catalogue by FASA for Shadowrun

D> Interface magazine - any issue - R.Talorsian games -cyberpunk

E> Chrome book - R. Talorsian Games - cyberpunkk


opps, forgot to mention

GAMMARAUDERS - board game of gammaworld mutant wargame destruction
for good clean massacre's and hours of fun
REVENGE OF THE FACTOIDS - supplement for previous

Gary A Mort
appologies to any and all companies whose names Ii misspelled
From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley )
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Medieval Pain-in-the-Arse
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:57:43 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In article <17NOV92.12841182.0062@VM1.MCGILL.CA> news@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca writes:
>
>In article <Bxtrr7.ExF@rice.edu> swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim) writes:
>
>In response to my post....
>
>>  If the GM has a particular story or type of story he wants to do,
>Trek and Star Wars. I wanted to play an evil Jedi the one time
>I did play SW. I gave up because the GM insisted on PC purity.
>Ho-hum. As for CoC: well, *I* have played mad, evil sorcerers.

Whoa! Talk about missing the point of a game!  CoC is NOT
designed for that, nor is the tone appropriate to it! Wow!
Low SAN is one thing, and _slowly transforming_ into a mad evil
sorcerer (at which point you become an NPC, see the rules on
madness) is probably OK, but starting OUT as one?

Lovecraft would be turning over in his grave, if he wasn't still
alive in the Dreamlands...

That sort of thing is almost the EXACT antithesis of every Lovecraft
story on the planet and Beyond!  Yeesh!
Sorry to get so o'erwrought about this but I play with a bunch o'
munchkins (tm) and I thought I heard one of them say this a whiel
back.

	Jason
From: gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: RPG's That Belong on Every Gamer's Shelf
Date: 22 Nov 92 17:46:59 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA


	OKay, I'll succumb to peer-pressure

	1)Star Wars.  A paragon of simplicity and elegance.  Easily the 
best system for first-time players.

	2)RuneQuest II.  Coming out in 1979, this game was years ahead of
its time, adn it still has a few lessons it can teach some modern games.

	3)Call of Cthulhu.  The acme of the horror genre.

	4)Paranoia.  When you need a goofy one-shot, there's nothing better.

	5)Spawn of Fashan.  When you need to know how *not* to do it, see
how SoF does it.  May substitute AD&D.

--
gharris@jade.tufts.edu          
George W. Harris              	"He'd kill us if he had the chance."  
Dept. of Mathematics            
Tufts University              			The Conversation  
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: Names
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:05:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.133144.23713@news.uit.no> dago@stud.cs.uit.no (Dag-Frode Olsen) writes:
)As a GM a have had BIG problem with good(??) fantasy
)names on cities, npcs, fortesses and like.

For cities, I just grab a Latin dictionary, take the first half of one word
and the second half of another, then mangle it just a bit... anything sounds
impressive in Latin.  For characters, I use a short program that randomly
strings letters together, and outputs about 20 random names... add a few
vowels to one of those and you have a name.

-- 
"In brightest day, in blackest night     | hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
no evil shall escape my sight.           | Novell janitor
Let those who worship evil's might       |-------------------------------
beware my power, Green Lantern's light!"      --GREEN LANTERN
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp:25296 rec.games.frp.misc:8615
From: maillet@tls-cs.cert.fr (Luc Maillet)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp,rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Silencers and Laser Sights in Shadowrun 2.0
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:49:37 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: CERT, CS Dpt. Toulouse, France

In article <KETIL.92Nov16030114@sandel.ii.uib.no>, ketil@ii.uib.no (Ketil M. Malde) writes:
[... many things deleted...]
|> 
|> As a side note, how about a built in range corrector (as somebody
|> proposed)?  What if you point your gun at a man at, say, 300m. Now, as
|> the range is long, your auto-cybernetic sight drops the beam
|> accordingly.  Unfortunately, there's a log or some other object at 15m
|> that it now hits. So, to correct for this, it adjusts itself up again.
|> And hits the man again :-)

  A static-range version of this already exists on many modern weapons : they
have hard targeting gear calibrated for 50/100/200/300 m, with correction for
drop compensation. The soldier extrapolates the intermediate ranges... Got it
from a soldier who was a LRAC ( French for LAW ) user.
  
|> 
|> Now what?
|> 
|> Shoot twice? :-)

  Yes, it's much simple with smartgun links. I believe that, in SR, smartguns
are underrated : in street combat, laser sights are of little help; smartguns,
being able to adapt instantly to range and situational modifications, are
great.
  Another thing that should be done for laser sights : put them into the infrared
frequencies ( it also already exists ). With special sights or thermographic eyes
you can still see the plot, but even your target has a hard time detecting it.

|> 
|> --
|>  = Ketil Malde                     In real life:  ketil@ii.uib.no =
|>  = Nuke the whales!                    Honk if you love unicorns! =

  Well, that was a cheap $0.02...

								Redwing.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.archives
From: "Jeffrey H. Johnson" <jjohnson@ccscola.columbiasc.NCR.COM>
Subject: INDEX: Role-playing magazine articles (0/9)
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc
Organization: NCR CCSD Columbia SC
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:43:59 GMT

This is a plain-text index of articles from role-playing magazines.  The
magazines sampled include Dragon, Dungeon, Roleplayer, Challenge, Red Giant,
White Dwarf, White Wolf, Shadis, Interface, Vortext, and Space Gamer.
This is by no means a complete index.  Most of the magazines are
in my own personal collection.  If you would like to add entries from
magazines which are not included, please contact me.  If you would like
to keep this list on an ftp site, contact me for other formats (e.g., dBase).

The entries are sorted by genre/system/author.  The genres include fantasy,
space, cyberpunk, super, adventure, conspiracy, western, and espionage, as
well as computer, board, solo, silly, any, none, and meta.
The format for entries is:
Article title
Author                                   Magazine          Issue
Game system              Genre
My comments or explanations

Jeff
--
Jeffrey H. Johnson
jjohnson@ccscola.columbiasc.ncr.com

		"More human than human is our motto."
			-- Dr. Eldon Tyrell
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.archives
From: troyer@finmark.nynexst.com (Tom Royer)
Subject: Development systems...
Organization: /u/troyer/.organization
Distribution: rec
Posting-Front-End: GNU Emacs 18.55.2 of Tue Mar 20 1990 on oberon (berkeley-unix)
Date: 18 Nov 92 09:40:03

Hello again!

   Well, between news and mail, I have seen decent interest in my development
system.  I will post schematics and documentation as soon as I get it written.
This may take a little while.  In the mean time, you may wish to study Jeff
Lavin's dualport.gif, because that's a large portion of my circuit anyway.  I
just got mail from someone who did a similar project for the PC (on a card).  If
he gets a chance, he will post instructions for that as well.  Apparently a good
handful of people have done similar projects in the past, that have since been
collecting dust.  If anyone out there has any Vectrex-related hardware projects,
I'm sure we all would like to see plans/schematics.

                                             -Tom Royer
                                              troyer@nynexst.com