HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:18:00 EDT
From:         NWILSON@SMITH.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Updates (Was:Re: Congratulations!!)

Brenda, Michelle, and Others,
        Your discussion of ultrasound jogged my memory. I read about two
months ago, in "Christian Herald" magazine, a very interesting article
about a woman who is an ultrasound technician. She said that after she
became a Christian, God really helped her to understand that the life she
was seeing on the ultrasound was not one that should ever be aborted. I
think she now has a counseling service for women considering abortion-
she said that many women, after seeing their babies on the screen, and knowing
that they really were alive, could not go through with the abortion.
        I found that very interesting, that someone in the medical field
is using her talents to help women make up their minds (or change their
minds) about abortion. Hmmm...
        I am so interested in children- both before and after birth, and her
article was very intriguing for me. I have never been pregnant before,
but I can only imagine how it must feel to know that someone is living
inside of you, and to see that little person doing things (like sucking
his/her thumb)---  WOW! :-)
                                Nicole
P.S. If you're interested in the
     article, let me know, and
     I can look for the issue and
     date of the Herald that the
     article appeared in.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 14:08:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: rally and various

<Proabortion:  Viewing abortion as a fundamental right of women in society.
<  This position regards the moral aspect of the abortion option as irrelevant.
<  It is also legalistic and logic-based and comes from an extremist form of
<  radical feminism that posits pregnancy as a form of bondage which must be
<  escaped.

Just pointing out that one need not go to radical feminism to find a feminist
justification for legal abortion.  And that it is not pregnancy, per se, which
is defined as a form of bondage which must be escaped, but the institution in
which it is assumed that a woman's primary role in society is to become
pregnant and have babies.  You'll find lots of seperatist lesbians using
artificial insemination to have children.

Dan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 12:12:00 MDT
From:         ERNESTOM@EPCC.BITNET
Subject: Re: SOLA SCRIPTURA / TRINITY

Peace of Christ,


        Titles Given both to Jesus Christ and to God)

God                                             Jesus Christ
---                                             ------------
                        God
Deut.4:39---------------------------------------- Isa. 40:3
Psa. 86:10--------------------------------------- Jn 1:1
Isa. 46:9---------------------------------------- Tit. 2:13
Mr.12:32----------------------------------------- 1Jn. 5:20

                     Only True God
Jn 17:3------------------------------------------ 1Jn 5:20

                      Mighty God
Neh. 9:32---------------------------------------- Isa.9:5-6

                       The Lord
Mt.11:25----------------------------------------- Lc. 2:11
Mt.21:9------------------------------------------ Jn. 20:28
Mt.22:37----------------------------------------- Acts 10:36
Mark12:29---------------------------------------- 1 Cor.8:6
Rev. 11:15--------------------------------------- 1 Cor.12:11
                                                  Fil. 2:11

           Jehova and Saviour - Lord and Saviour

Isa. 43:11--------------------------------------- 2 Peter 1:11
Isa. 60:16--------------------------------------- 2 Peter 2:20
Os. 13:4----------------------------------------- 2 Peter 3:18

                        Saviour

Isa. 43:3,11------------------------------------- Luke 1:69
Isa. 60:16--------------------------------------- Luke 2:11
1 Tim 1:1---------------------------------------- Acts 5:31
Tit. 1:3----------------------------------------- Phil.3:20
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:28:00 LCL
From:         UJ6F@DKAUNI2.BITNET
Subject:      Adolescent sexuality

>
> In article <CHRISTIA%92040705224641@ASUACAD.BITNET> U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET (Bernic
e
> Tennant) writes:
> >Somewhere there is scripture about men "not spilling their seed upon the
> >ground"  -----forgive me if the quote is misquoted!
>
> I think it is very dangerous for us to quote half a verse and make a
> decision based on that. I could counter that verse by saying that
> it's alright if it's caught in a tissue - at least it hasn't hit the ground.
> Sorry, that's what happens when you take things literally.
>
> The story was that the man's brother had died, leaving a widow. According
> to the law of the time, he was expected to have intercourse with the
> widow so she would have a son. The man didn't, he masturbated and
> "spilled his seed on the ground".

It seems to me Onan didn't masturbate (at least not in this case)
but actually did sleep with his sister-in-law as the law required
BUT he seems to have practised a type of birth-control called
coitus interruptus, where the partners separate (just) before the
male ejaculates, thereby spilling (at least most of) the semen
on the ground.

> --
> se@uk.ac.lancs.comp
> Department of Computing, Engineering Building,
> University of Lancaster, Bailrigg, Lancaster, LA1 4YR, UK
> PHONE: +44 524 65201 ext 3783.

Mike says hi. Mike says bye...
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:20:50 -0600
From:         DRAKE@ASUCP2.LA.ASU.EDU
Subject:      Jungian psychology
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

>               ... I would like you to expand a bit on your view of
>         Jungian psychology in particular. The reason for this is that a
>         large part of what is now called "Christian" psychology uses
>         Jungian concepts


               Your not joking?!  This shocks me a great deal because
         the only place I've ever come across Jungian concepts is in the
         Wiccan/NeoPagan literature that I've read.

               Mark Drake
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:45:00 EDT
From:         NWILSON@SMITH.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Canadian national identity

To our Canadian List Folk?
        All this Canada talk reminds me of a sports game when I heard
Celine (Sp?) Dion sing the Canadian national anthem, and I was really
impressed by it. As I recall, the words were something like, "Canada,
in God we trust".
        My question is, "Anybody know all the words?" If so, please
post them. I'm sure we'd be blessed by them.
        Nicole
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 10:27:49 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Baby Names Revisited
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              Apr 16, 92 4:43 pm

Steve,

How about
Girl: Rebekah (symbolic of the Bride of Christ)
Boy : Isaac   (symbolic of Christ himself)
Organization: Arizona State University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 14:44:22 MST
From:         Andrew Wollert <ISPAJW@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Prayer

I wanted to share this prayer that I read today with you.

My Lord God, I have no idea where I am going.  I do not see the road
ahead of me.  I cannot know for certain where it will end.  Nor do I
really know myself, and the fact that I think I am following your will
does not mean that I am actually doing so.  But I believe that the
desire to please you does in fact please you.  And I hope I have that
desire in all that I am doing.  I hope that I will never do anything
apart from that desire.  And I know that if I do this you will lead
me by the right road, though I may know nothing about it.  Therefore
I will trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the
shadow of death.  I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you
will never leave me to face my perils alone.
-Thomas Merton
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:49:00 EDT
From:         The List Minor <VCHAI@SMITH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Spiritual and physical death

 Jeff Sinatra writes:
>To me, there is no such thing as "spiritual death."

   Spiritual death as in eternal separation from God's presence.

> Man is eternal because he
>has been created in the "image and likeness" of God.(Gen. 1:27)

   Aren't you saying here that Man _is_ God? since man is eternal
   as God is eternal, and Man is made in the image of God.


   Vicky
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 08:23:26 -0400
From:         "Toni J. Benner" <tjbenner@COLBY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: prayers
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

I heard on one of the programs that his best friend was in the car behind
him, and was holding his head before he died. He did say that he didn't
want to die, then seemed to be listening to a voice that no one else could
hear, said ok once, then again, and died. They say he had a big, big heart
and was very good to others. God does look at the heart.

                      Toni B.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: C.S. Lewis and Universalism-I'm confused!
From: comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 00:02:52 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

Note that most of the Calormenes are clearly NOT saved.  Lewis was no
universalist.  He, however, follows an ancient tradition (which much of the
early church believed) that there were pre-Christian righteous men (still
righteous by faith, obviously, their righteous being exhibited by, but not
based on, their good works) who worshipped the true God THROUGH the idols,
without realising it.  Lewis was not a universalist, but did believe that at
least men who had never heard of Christ could have true faith.  Whether he
believed that you could hear the Gospel, reject it, and still have true
faith, I don't know --- I doubt it.  I think he is only referring to those
who have not heard, either because they lived before Christ, or in an area
where Christ had not been preached.  In Calvinist terms, he believed that a
person could be elect without hearing the Gospel.

I am inclined to agree with him, but am unwilling to be dogmatic because I
don't think Scripture is sufficiently clear.  But Melchizedek and Jethro
(Moses's father-in-law) appear to have been true believers and there is no
positive indication that they had the specifically Mosaic form of the Gospel
preached to them (though, of course, one who rejects Lewis's position may
ipso facto argue that they must have done --- but it's question-begging).

jj

John Thayer Jensen                      64 9 373 7599 ext. 7543
Commerce Computer Services              64 9 373 7437 (FAX)
Auckland University                     jt.jensen@aukuni.ac.nz
Private Bag 92019
AUCKLAND
New Zealand
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:14:32 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      NEW LIST: PJAL - Progressive Jewish Activism List (fwd)

Forwarded message:
From root Wed Apr 15 12:15 EST 1992
Message-Id: <9204150243.AA25976@gatekeeper.oracle.com>
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 21:28:38 CDT
Reply-To: Steven.Carr@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu
From: Steven.Carr@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu
Subject:      NEW LIST: PJAL - Progressive Jewish Activism List
To: Multiple recipients of list NEW-LIST <NEW-LIST@VM1.NoDak.EDU>

PJAL on LISTSERV@UTXVM.BITNET
     or LISTSERV@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU

   The Progressive Jewish Activism List (PJAL@UTXVM.BITNET) is a forum
   for organizing and activism-oriented discussion by progressive Jews
   working for peace and social justice.  PJAL is founded on the
   principles of:

   - opposition to discrimination based on race, sex, age, religious
   belief and practice, and sexuality;  support for human rights and
   freedom of expression

   - belief in economic and environmental justice: the right of all
   people to adequate food, shelter, and quality of life for themselves
   and their children

   - support for individual rights to privacy, including a woman's
   choice to have an abortion

   - support for the resolution of conflict through negotiation;
   opposition to violence, military culture, and occupation

   - support for the self-determination and security of Israelis and
   Palestinians, including self-determination for Palestinian residents
   of territories occupied by Israel in 1967, and recognition of the
   Palestine Liberation Organization as the legitimate representative of
   the Palestinian people.

   PJAL is an outgrowth of the Progressive Jewish Mailing List (PJML),
   an unmoderated discussion forum for progressive Jews.  PJAL is a
   moderated list, which means that list moderators reserve the right to
   determine the direction and integrity of submissions posted to PJAL.
   For unmoderated discussions, subscribers are encouraged to join PJML.
   Posting and list review on PJAL are restricted to list subscribers.

   Let us work together in the tradition of _tikkun olam_, the just
   repair of the world!

   To subscribe to PJAL, please apply to one of the list owners, Steve
   Carr or Seth Grimes.  In your application, please describe your
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   principles outlined and your acceptance of the moderated format of
   the list.

   List Owners: Steve Carr                       Seth Grimes
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Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 03:42:02 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Should women cover their heads?
              11 Apr 1992 09:53:24 EST from <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>

Ian:
Generally you and I agree, but on the subject of coverings, I really
must disagree with you.  In your opinion, coverings are a very poor
symbol of obedience, perhaps.  But in the opinion of those who practice
this, at least as far as those in the Anabaptist tradition, coverings
are a very real symbol of obedience, and they wear them with joy as
a sign of submission to God.  I think, when we are defining what is
and is not oppression, we ought at least to consult those we assume
to be among the oppressed.  Again, I stress that, amongst these people,
head covering and plain clothes are a matter of simplicity, reverence,
and submission before God.  For them, there is no greater calling, no
more important challenge in our daily walk with Christ than utter
negation of self and submission to the will of God.  In some congregation-
al traditions, that outward manifestation takes the form of coverings,
in some it is expressed in the rejection of "worldly" things, such as
electricity and telephones, in some it is demonstrated by communal living.
Each community and congregation is entitled to draw their own lines in
becoming separate from the world.  My point was merely that those who
are part of a community congregation where covering is practiced do not
appear to feel that they are being oppressed.
In case anyone is interested, another interesting practice of Mennonite
and Anabaptist congregations is the inclusion of a foot-washing ceremony
in the communion service; but that, again, differs from one community to
to the next.  The purpose, however, as with covering, is to demonstrate
submission to God, this time in serving others.
I think we should recognize that just because our own tradition would not
find a certain practice edifying is no reason to remove it from those who
willingly and joyfully practice it.  I think we should no more condemn con-
gregations for the practice of covering than we should condemn our Catholic
brothers and sisters for not allowing women to be priests.   IMHO, if one
wishes to change the Catholic church to the extent of ordaining women, per-
mitting practicing homosexuals to be ordained, or allowing priests to marry
(as Matthew Fox has suggested it should), one is really trying to make the
Catholic church into something else more pleasing to the individual.  Any
woman in a church that practices covering that finds such a practice to
be oppressive should find another church, if covering is a major part
of the tradition and theology of that church.  IMHO.  As an Anabaptist.
And as a woman.  (Sorry I rambled there; I'm trying to get this done before
the phone rings again.)
                          Love INC,
                                   ---Kerry
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 13:32:15 EST
From:         John Ross <ROSSJB@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Christian rock
              3 Apr 1992 13:50:03 GMT from <danny@UTKUX1.UTK.EDU>

My own 2 cents on Christian Rock:

I'd rather listen to a song in which "JESUS IS LORD" is screamed over and
over again than a good old fashioned nice song that swoons....

"Amazing grace ...how sweet the sound...

that saved someONE like me"
               ^^^


We're not sinners any more, we've just made a few minor mistakes...

ptooey!

Give me the hard core gospel over the bubblegum pseudoBiblical lyrics
some of your "southern gospel" singers create.

John
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 05:23:03 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Truth

Darryl,

You say,

    "Let me restate my argument for anyone who missed it.  I want
     no misunderstandings here.  When your Truth is different from
     another's Truth, you have three choices:
     1) accept their Truth as being valid
     2) try to change their Truth, but (to be fair) giving them a
        chance to change YOUR Truth, and expecting high resistance
        from the nonbeliever
     3) kill them, either quickly, or slowly and horribly."

There is no such thing a different truths.  There are different
perceptions of the truth, or different beliefs about the truth, but
that's not the same thing.  That may be what you meant, but there are
people who seriously claim that a statement can be "true for you but
not true for me".  This is nonsense, but they seriously maintain it
and (somewhat contradictorily) argue that it is true.

What does it mean to say that a Truth is "valid"?  Or, to adopt the
wording I prefer, what does it mean to say that a perception of the
truth is "valid"?

I would split your second choice into two parts and word them this
way:

2a) Try to change their understanding of the truth, but (to be fair)
give them a chance to change your understanding of the truth, and
expect high resistance from the nonbeliever.

2b) Recognize that no one person can reform the whole world and that
as a practical matter many people must be left in their errors or
convinced of their errors by others

Marty Helgesen
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 10:19:30 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: chuckle

Carol:

Loved your posting on computer glitches.  Especially lately, since my
stupid modem (or maybe the stupid University system; it is nearing
the busy season around here, after all) keeps mysteriously conking out
on me.  Thanks,
               Love INC,
                        ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 14:25:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Homosexuality

<(B)  I am also told evolution will cause traits and characteristics of a
<species to disappear if it will not further the chance of the species to
<survive (ie natural selection).
<
<TRUE homosexuals do not have a chance (unless raped, but that's another
<topic) to continue the species.

Incorrect.  There is no shortage of people engaging in sex for the express
purpose of becoming pregnant with a child they intend to raise on their own.
Homosexuality is not only about who you have sex with, but who you emotionally
bond with.  You also totally ignore bisexuality.

<If the first two statements are true, does that mean that homosexuality
<is an evolutionary blind-alley?  If homosexuality is genetic, should it have
<not "died out" eons ago?

It has been suggested that homosexuality can serve the evolutionary purpose of
preventing overpopulation, which is an evolutionary positive trait.  As anyone
who has taken high school Bio can tell you, if a species over populates, it
dies in its own poisons.

Further, homosexuality is not passed on directoyl from parent to child.  Most
lesbigays I know are the children of heterosexual parents.  Most of the
children (circa 90%) of lesbigay parents I know are het.  It doesn't directly
translate.

Dan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:43:05 EDT
From:         MKLINE%VDH.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      ABORTION:Spec. legal

Subject: ABORTION:Spec. legal

Kerry -------------------------------------------------------------->
By the way, in case you were not aware of it (many people are not),
Roe v. Wade made it illegal for any state to interfere with a woman's
desire to have an abortion, and declared abortion legal (under certain
restrictions) throughout all nine months of pregnancy.  Dr. George
Tiller in Wichita, Kansas, performs abortions into the ninth month
and is proud of it.  He says he is doing a great service for the
women of the nation (the born ones, that is.)

MAKS> In the latest set of tapes from the 700 Club, it was said they
      were allowed to kill the baby as it came down the birth canal.
      That's what had Operation Rescue so upset over the whole thing.
      As Kerry said, Dr. Tiller thinks he's just great. Well, someday
      I'll get to hear God's opinion face to face if he doesn't repent.

Maks
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 11:19:25 EDT
From:         Roberta <ROBERTAS@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Prayer Request

Hello.......I am very new to this network and would like to thank you all
for the inspiration that is offered over the network daily - it is a great
pleasure and very rewarding to read the network!  I am in a current situation
which is incredibly challenging and I would like to ask for your prayer support
to help me during this time - specifically, if you could help me with prayers
for a stronger faith and prosperity, it would be greatly appreciated!  I pray
that God bless you all........ many thanks!
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