HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: I've seen NT......and I'll take OS/2 2.0 thanks!
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:56:08 GMT

In <1992Aug18.090214.14043@actrix.gen.nz> Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:

>In article <1992Aug17.194931.17023@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>> In <1992Aug15.142241.11149@actrix.gen.nz> Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
>> 
>> >If OS/2 supports Win3.1, then a good number of Windows 3.0 apps will no longer
>> >run under Win-OS/2.......so it isn't a matter of deciding whether or not to
>> >cut a finger off....it's WHICH ONE do you cut off.
>> 
>> I've seen this claim made before.  I guess my question is why that is
>> the case.  After all, WIN-OS2 will run Windows 2.X and 1.X, won't it?
>> So why should it suddenly lose the ability to run Windows 3.0 just
>> because it gains the ability to run Windows 3.1?

>Not *all* Win3.0......just a few dozen programs....some of which are popular.
>This is in contrast to the handful of Win3.1 programs that don't run under
>Win-OS/2. In both cases, we are talking about only a small number of programs.

But WHY SHOULD THIS BE TRUE?  Just because Windows 3.1 won't run some
Windows 3.0 programs?  Hell, Windows 3.0 wouldn't run some Windows 2.x
programs, either, but WIN-OS2 seem to manage it quite nicely.


-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: x90wardell@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Number of users etc.
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:39:10 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <2987@accucx.cc.ruu.nl>, nevries@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Nico E de Vries) writes:
> It is my understanding that the 1,000,000 copies officially shipped
> by IBM is only a subset of the number of actual users. There are
> also large cooperations making internal copies (site licence), upgrades
> from OS/2 1.3 (about 1,300,000 ?), pirate users etc. Does anyone want
> to make estimates of those figures and the place of the 1,000,000 in
> it.
> 
> Also interesting is the same for Windows 3.1. In this case (an maybe in
> the OS/2 case) subtractions for "shelfware" might be needed.


	Well, 1 million copies of OS/2 have been SOLD IBM just announced.  That
means at the retail level that by the end of June 1 million had been sold.  It
takes (at least for Babbages for example) about a month for sales to reach the
original distributor.  I read in Infoworld that IBM had SHIPPED (not sold)
almost 2 million copies.  These do not include free upgrades (1.3 users, beta
testers, contest winners, etc.).  I have not BOUGHT a single copy of OS/2, but
I have 3 copies of it from upgrading from 1.3 (bought in Dec to get os/2 2.0)
and 2 for beta testing.
From: gt0059e@prism.gatech.EDU (Garrett Drysdale)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: superVGA
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:15:19 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Aug13.081453.14159@cam-orl.co.uk> thg@cam-orl.co.uk (Tim Glauert) writes:
->
->What, STILL only 1 third party seamless driver??!! OS/2 2.0 has been in Beta
->
->Some of the same board manufacturers already have NT drivers for their cards.
->
->It makes you think, doesn't it ...
->

Oh I can't wait to get those NT drivers for my Diamond Card!  I wonder if
I can get a HP Laser driver and a driver and software for my IRWIN tape
drive.  I better give them a call right away!

Whoops???  I forgot, I can't buy NT yet.  Guess I had better call 
all these NT developers and cancel my orders.

It makes you think, doesn't it ...

Garrett

-- 
Garrett Drysdale
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0059e
Internet: gt0059e@prism.gatech.edu
From: CSYSPCN@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (CSYSPCN)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: pc week and nt
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:49:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.221342.21192@microsoft.com>, on 12 Aug 92 22:13:42 GMT,
petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:

>                                   Why are y'all complaining that MS dropped
>you, when in truth, MS said that since MS and IBM couldn't get along any more
>IBM's getting the "kid", so you are going to have to go to IBM for your
>support of OS/2.
>

Because they didn't deliver on their contratural obligations on the
SDK, and they took OS/2 support out of their language offerings.

Sounds like actively dropping support to me.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: rommel@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Kai-Uwe Rommel)
Subject: Re: NT goes "late Beta" in 8 weeks! (was Re: Windows NT 'Alpha')
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:26:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.115325.3941@hellgate.utah.edu> brian%jaguar.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill) writes:
>But there have been plenty of others that have said that NT is
>quite real, and looks very promising.  Do you think we're all lying?

The same (and in at least the same enthusiastic manner) was said when
OS/2 2.0 was in beta. What makes you believe that NT will be evolve
differently (better), when it is a released product, than OS/2 2.0 does
now in your opinion?

Kai Uwe Rommel

/* Kai Uwe Rommel --- rommel@informatik.tu-muenchen.de */

DOS ... is still a real mode only non-reentrant interrupt
handler, and always will be.                -Russell Williams

Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: dab6@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas A. Bell)
Subject: Ignore this post - Blatent flaming (was Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift
Reply-To: dab6@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas A. Bell)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 15:32:24 GMT


In a previous article, petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) says:

>In article <1992Aug12.102821.26606@wsl.ie> jja@wsl.ie (John J. Allen) writes:
>>philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
>>: 
>>:       More like "Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!"
>>: 
>>: 					-Phil
>>
>>       More like "Sharks and Black Widows and Taran, oh my!"
>>
>>Hey Phil, grow up and stop the silly comments.
>
>Didn't someone say that MS people had no sense of humor.
>I guess it was the NON-MS folk they were talking about.
>;) ;) ;)
>
>petesk@microsoft.com
>My Opinions...

Pete, considering the level of wit that you mustered in your rebuttle,
they (whoever 'they' are) must be talking about MicroSofties.  You 
really didn't make a three smiley face comment.  But I guess after 
spending hours writing long winded, self contradictory posts with no 
point or focus, it must be refreshing for you to write such a short, 
distinct reply.  Even if it wasn't interesting or funny.

Follow up to alt.flame  .....


p.s. I would not call Phil's comments silly.  That implies that they might 
humorous.  They're just fairly inane and a tad bit wierd.
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:4174 comp.os.os2.misc:27642
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: I've seen NT......and I'll take OS/2 2.0 thanks!
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:32:15 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <18AUG199210153123@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu> cvadrtbc@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu (Srikanth Viswanathan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.201353.3278@news.columbia.edu>, mig@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Meir I Green) writes...
>> 
>>Could someone please tell me which processes need IOPL?  I think I should try
>>setting it to no, like I did with 1.3.
>
>What is IOPL?  I know it's a setting in the CONFIG.SYS but what does it do?
>What are the performance implications if I set it to no or yes?  Thanks.

IOPL stands for (correct me if I'm wrong) I/O Privalege Level.
Certain processes (threads) may need low-level access to hardware.
These threads are defined as IOPL threads in the program's .DEF file.
In order for the thread to execute, the IOPL line in CONFIG.SYS must
be set to "YES" or to the name of the thread that needs IOPL.  If it's
set to "NO" or the thread name isn't specified, then the IOPL thread
won't be allowed to execute.

Generally, I leave IOPL set to "NO".  I haven't found any apps that
need it set to "YES", and I can always place that app's IOPL thread
name in the CONFIG.SYS if I ever find such a program.


-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: grumpy@jpradley.jpr.com (Jeff Markel)
Subject: Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift
Reply-To: grumpy@jpradley.UUCP (Jeff Markel)
Organization: Unix in NYC
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:33:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug07.192831.17275@microsoft.com> petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
>Okay, check the similarities here.
>DOS is a bios app that loads and runs applications.
>OS/2 is a bios app that loads and runs applications.
>...
>
>After dos passes off control to Windows, Windows owns the system.
>All dos provides is a filesystem service.  Does it really matter in
>what order something is loaded as to whether it is an OS or not.
>I would think that the functionality determins whether it is an
>OS.
>
>petesk@microsoft.com
>My Opinions....or was that Onions.
>
>

OS/2 doesn't really use the BIOS, so it CAN'T be a BIOS app.


                        Jeff Markel

Jeffrey Markel | uucp:     jpradley!argos!markel   | Argos Computer Systems Inc
KD2HN          | internet: grumpy@jpradley.jpr.com | 110 W. 32nd Street 
(212)594-5400  | amprnet:  kd2hn@kd2hn.ampr.org    | New York, NY 10001
===============================================================================
	The New World Order is ... "Shoot to kill!"
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: it1@ra.msstate.edu (Tim Tsai)
Subject: Re: HPFS File Names (Was Re: Damned good recovery)
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:16:20 GMT

dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.135132.10003@hellgate.utah.edu> brian%jaguar.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill) writes:
>>In article <Lrf-Y7-@engin.umich.edu> jwh@citi.umich.edu writes:
>>...
>>>What would be really nice is if you could assign your own 8.3 name to
>>>any file and have DOS applications use that filename instead of 
>>>simply being blind to the file.  For example, I would like to have
>>>some subdirectories which contain only 8.3 names.  Unfortunately all
>>>parent directories must also conform to 8.3 names for DOS applications
>>
>>NT fixes this -- if you are on an NTFS volume, 8.3 names are automatically
>>assigned for the long names.

  I don't consider that a fix.  Many of us do not like operating systems
randomly assigning filenames for us.  I hear NFS products for MS-DOS
often do this.  What he asked for was the ability to assign names by the
user.

-- 
  Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere
  in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. <Calvin>
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Damned good recovery
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:44:00 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug13.135134.19106@msc.cornell.edu>, 
maynard@esther.msc.cornell.edu (Maynard J. Handley) writes...

>I'm a Mac user who simply follows the competition out of interest, but
>something I wonder about. Isn't OS/2 supposed to come with HPFS which means
>you can use decent filenames that use upper and lower case and spaces, have
>file types attached and can be reasonably long? If so, why are you people
>all using these ridiculous names like SVGADATA.PMI? Do you realize how
>childish thsi makes your OS look? I might at some point switch to OS/2, but
>certainly not while all public evidence I see of it makes it look like ist
>still has all the gorgeous DOS file system features as far as the user is
>concerned.

OS/2 does come with HPFS, but it also supports FAT.  The support of FAT is 
why the system files have 8.3 names files (such as SVGADATA.PMI).  
Personally, I don't judge an OS by its filenames - I judge it by its 
performance.

JD 
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: bbrown@infonode.ingr.com (Bailey Brown)
Subject: Re: Who's problem \*are\* SVGA drivers?
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 16:32:32 GMT

sanders@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry P Sanderson) writes:

>In article <BsyI4G.62t@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> cebarton@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Casey Barton) writes:
>>
>>   Well, Win 3.1 comes with a generic SVGA driver - an optimized one at that.
>>

>Generic, yet optimized??? Sounds like a government position paper that
>is broad, yet specific; open, yet closed.
>How do you produce a generic SVGA driver, then optimize it?
>Any "generic" driver cannot be optimized.

The generic SVGA driver with Win 3.1 is definitely fast, and beats
many vendors' own drivers.

I assume they used special case code to handle the instances where it
was optimal to do things differently on different boards.  SVGA boards
aren't *that* different, especially in the 800x600x16 mode, and it
is not difficult to write software that runs well on a number of them.

IBM's decision not to release an SVGA driver was probably made by 
people who understood the argument "SVGA boards are all different, 
we can't support all of them, and besides, we don't make any" and knew 
nothing at all about SVGA programming or even about SVGA's dominance 
of the market.

------------
Bailey Brown                               "Above all else, confusion reigns."
Intergraph Corporation                                  
bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com                              Procol Harum
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: Gary.Woodman@anu.edu.au (Gary Woodman)
Subject: Re: Damned good recovery
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:47:14 GMT

In article <GKUSHMER.92Aug11130348@jade.tufts.edu> gkushmer@jade.tufts.edu (Greg Kushmerek) writes:

>I was fooling around with some Trident video drivers last night in an
>attempt to get more lines of resolution.  I went through the procedure and
>decided to try using the 800x600x256 virtual desktop driver which I had
>always shied away from.
>
>Well, after going through the procedures and shutting down the system, I
>rebooted and waited.  And waited.  And waited.  After the IBM OS/2 bitmap
>appeared, you see, there appeared nothing.  I tried a few things to 
>get around it, but my screen was staying in the dark.

Hangs every time unless you make the changes to SVGADATA.PMI as described in 
the Trident drivers README.

>So I pulled out my disks and went for the reinstall 

Not necessary - just EXPAND (or is it UNPACK?) the default DISPLAY.DLL from 
the installation disk (which one? depends on your media size) - it goes 
into \OS2\INSTALL. Then boot from floppy and COPY C:\OS2\INSTALL\DISPLAY.DLL 
to \OS2\DLL, and reboot. Your system will come up in standard VGA, and you 
can go back to playing with the Trident drivers. Fun, isn't it?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary.Woodman@anu.edu.au         This post made from 100% recycled electrons.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly)
Subject: Re: Distributed Systems (was: Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift)
Date: 16 Aug 92 05:36:17 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug14.173546.27735@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>
>>You give a UNIX system, which will be MAXED out in use.  The users won't be
>>able to use anything more complecated.  What if the UNIX box goes down.
>>For every hour it is down, you loose 100 man hours of work.  
>
>Assuming its always in use.  Some Unix boxes can handle that load.
>The computer I'm using now: hertz.njit.edu is a DEC system 5500.  It
>can have over 100 users on during peak hours.  It handles it rather
>well.  (Of course, it has 128MB of memory and many GB if disk!).  It
>is expensive, though.  A Unix box that can quickly handle 100+ users
>at once will cost as much (if not more) as the NT setup you describe.
>
>Remember that 100 terminals connected directly to the CPU will slow it
>down a lot, so you need a communications controler to multiplex the
>100 terminals into a high-speed port.  This will cost quite a bit for
>a 100+ terminal load.  (NJIT uses a DEC LAT server for all of its
>dumb-terminals).

Okay, that one meaning of MAXED OUT, another is, well, the terminal based
system can't handle anything more complex than terminal based apps.  What
happens when more complex apps become highly used.

>
>>Let me just remind you that I DID NOT SAY that NT couldn't handle login
>>over the serial port from a term.  I only questioned the usefulness of this.
>
>It's useful for people calling in from home.  But then again, you
>could do that under DOS (with well-behaved apps, I can use Procomm for
>remote access), so it's nothing really new, and I'd be shocked if it
>_couldn't_ be done under NT.

Yes, remote access from home is useful.  However, there will probably be
programs to handle this with a bit more security than would normally be
applicable to a terminal connected directly to the comm port.  This is
up to the sysadmin, though. 

>
>Looking back over this post, I'm not sure which side I'm arguing.  So
>let's just assume I'm not taking any side, OK?

Cool, probably the best position to be in.

petesk@microsoft.com
My Opinions...


Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: dab6@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas A. Bell)
Subject: WYSIWYG ( was Re: Release dates
Reply-To: dab6@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas A. Bell)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 13:42:42 GMT


In a previous article, brian%jensen.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill) says:

>
>  > From:  dab6@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas A. Bell)
>  ...
>  > >apps... to me this in inconceivable... why restrict yourself to
>  > >Describe, Object Vision and free/shareware.  I find it hard to believe
>  > >that anyone can't find at least one Microsoft app they really like
>  > >(I very much like Word and Visual Basic).
>  > 
>  > There are a wealth of DOS apps that simple perform better than windows
>  > apps.  
>Name a DOS app that does word processing nicer than the WYSIWIG
>approaches possible under Windows?

What is WYIWIG?  What you see is what I get?
            ^
But anyway, didn't I say dos apps look nicer than windows apps.  No.
They don't look nicer.

I said that dos apps perform better, meaning that they run faster.
Performance is more than just a pretty screen.  I can get more 
done with wordperfect 5.1 on the average than just about any windows
WYSIWYG word processor user.  True, I have worked in a computer lab
for 4 years and had to help people daily with wordperfect problems,
but once I learned the wordperfect system, convoluted as it is,
I found out that it can work faster for an experienced user than
the current crop of 'WYSIWYG' word processors.  Most of which only
do a so-so job of showing you what a document will look like while
working on it, which is hardly WYSIWYG.  

And yes, I have used windows 3.1 and just about every major windows
wordprocessor.  No, they don't perform better for me.  Why does every
one assume that if something is good for the neophyte user that it
must be good for everyone?
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly)
Subject: Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:33:44 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug13.123325.8107@jpradley.jpr.com> grumpy@jpradley.UUCP (Jeff Markel) writes:
>In article <1992Aug07.192831.17275@microsoft.com> petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
>>Okay, check the similarities here.
>>DOS is a bios app that loads and runs applications.
>>OS/2 is a bios app that loads and runs applications.
>>...
>>
>>After dos passes off control to Windows, Windows owns the system.
>>All dos provides is a filesystem service.  Does it really matter in
>>what order something is loaded as to whether it is an OS or not.
>>I would think that the functionality determins whether it is an
>>OS.
>>
>>petesk@microsoft.com
>>My Opinions....or was that Onions.
>>
>>
>
>OS/2 doesn't really use the BIOS, so it CAN'T be a BIOS app.

But OS/2 uses the BIOS as its boot sector loader, just as Win31 uses
DOS as it's loader, so by the logic so commonly used in this group (cynicism)
OS/2 Is as much BIOS app as Win31 is DOS app.

petesk@microsoft.com


Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: maynard@esther.msc.cornell.edu (Maynard J. Handley)
Subject: Re: Damned good recovery
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:51:34 GMT

>Hangs every time unless you make the changes to SVGADATA.PMI as described
>in 
>the Trident drivers README.
>
>>So I pulled out my disks and went for the reinstall 
>
>Not necessary - just EXPAND (or is it UNPACK?) the default DISPLAY.DLL
>from 
>the installation disk (which one? depends on your media size) - it goes 
>into \OS2\INSTALL. Then boot from floppy and COPY
>C:\OS2\INSTALL\DISPLAY.DLL 
>to \OS2\DLL, and reboot. Your system will come up in standard VGA, and you
>>can go back to playing with the Trident drivers. Fun, isn't it?

I'm a Mac user who simply follows the competition out of interest, but
something I wonder about. Isn't OS/2 supposed to come with HPFS which means
you can use decent filenames that use upper and lower case and spaces, have
file types attached and can be reasonably long? If so, why are you people
all using these ridiculous names like SVGADATA.PMI? Do you realize how
childish thsi makes your OS look? I might at some point switch to OS/2, but
certainly not while all public evidence I see of it makes it look like ist
still has all the gorgeous DOS file system features as far as the user is
concerned.

Maynard Handley
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:3889 comp.os.os2.misc:27307
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: os2 support
From: Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 14:35:48 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Keywords: os2 ms

In article <am6m08l.xtifr@netcom.com> xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters) writes:
> 
> I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Phil and Pete for their
> continuing presence here.  I may not always agree with what they say,
> but it's nice to have additional sources of info, and they've both done
> an admirable job of retaining their senses of humor against often
> overwhelming odds.
> -- 
> Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
> xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!

I'll second that. You can't go duck hunting with out any ducks......:-)
 
Steve


-- 
Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | If you don't vote for MMP on 
Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         |  September 19, 1992, then you 
withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            |  must like things the way they 
**** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       |  are.....can I live with YOU?
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.misc