From: Kamchatka Charlie
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recepies
Date: 15 Apr 92 02:03:33 GMT
Organization: Psychosis Unlimited International

First a thanks to David F. McWade, who writes in response to some information I
gave on lower LDL cholesterol in fish:

>...And the excess protein in the fish gives them one of the HIGHEST rates
>of osteoporosis in the world, despite the fact that they consume more
>calcium than anyone else.
>
>Even if fish actually does lower heart attack and cholesterol levels, it
>causes other adverse side effects and is completely unnecessary.
     And also thanks to the other vegetarians on the net who didn't flame me to
high heaven for my faux pas.

Now on to Micheal Traub.

     Since my last posting on the 10th of April, I have counted the commentors
in this arguement.  This is the list so far:

Your supporters:  Arun Sannute; Tim Miley
Critic of yours:  SECBU@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
My supporter:  Rich Young
Would be supporting me but would seem to prefer dropping out of the newsgroup
because flamers like you:  Carol Miller-Tutzauer; James M. Hoskins
     So far, it's 2-2, with two abstaining--good for you; otherwise it'd be 4-2
in my favor.
     Now, onto your comments:
     First, to SECBU@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU

>>  I have never seen anyone try to convert any of you to
>>anything.
>You can't be reading all the articles then can you?
     I have been reading this newsgroup for a year; and have yet to see any
"Eat Meat, It's good for You" postings in r.f.v.  What net are you reading?

>>I was just talking to a friend of mine about just that, last
>>night.  It is just a shame.  I read to get recipes and information
>>not be lamblasted at the slightest provocation.
>Try rec.food.recipes, I think Charlie might forward some from here
>for those of you that just wish to snarf recipes all day long. I
>don't suppose you've ever though of buying a recipe book have you?
     He said recipes AND information.  Besides, you ever think someone might
not have enough money to buy a recipe book?  Also, there's a certain romance to
finding recipes on the net and trying them out that night.
     Which leads us to the discussion (flamewar?  maybe...) between Me and
Micheal:

KC: Kamchatka Charlie writes:
MT: Michael Traub writes:

KC: What I DON'T like is the "You don't fit the rec.food.veg mode; therefore
KC: you are not welcome." atmosphere you wish to shove onto r.f.v.

MT: I'm not pushing that at all! I am merely saying if someone wants to tell
MT: us that eating meat is ok, then I (and I am certain many others) are not
MT: in the least bit interested. This is rec.food.veg isn't it?
     But Traub; I never said that eating meat was Okay, I just said to be more
tolerant and kind to those who happened to eat meat.  It was to THAT that your
inflammitory (sp?) commentary was aimed at.

     (The whole paragraph is included here as I found the paragraph was
incomplete as originally posted.)
KC:     I have been reading this newsgroup for a year now.  When I first
KC: logged on, the vegans were dictating the discussion on the net.  Then
KC: came the reaction to the dictatorship of the vegans.  Then someone
KC: said her SO was giving counterarguements to her arguements for being a
KC: vegetarian WHICH BROUGHT ON SOME SUGGESTIONS THAT SHE CASTRATE HER SO
KC: (this was before HE came on the net, mind you.  Then it REALLY got
KC: vicious)  In recent history there was a person bemoaning his/her fate
KC: in having to deal with meateaters, and now discussion on dividing the
KC: newsgroup to separate the discussion (which I like; after all I'm not
KC: under the illusion that vegetarianism is merely a dietary choice) from
KC: the recipies.  I've yet to hear anyone suggest that people here actually
KC: eat meat for once (and I'm not suggesting it here) NOR have I heard eggs
KC: considered acceptable vegetarian food (and I'd hate to see the flamewars
KC: that would arise should this come up as a topic).

MT: So when anyone asks for help on the net when confronted by a majority of
MT: meat eaters or an unhelpful spouse you think we should just lay down
MT: our arms and die?
     No.  I also wouldn't suggest castration phantasies, demands for the person
to get away from that SO NOR cults which practice a full vegen/fruitarian
regimen.

KC:     No; I said I would like more vegetarians.  That you consider the
KC: status quo as acceptable is okay, but I would like to be able to go into
KC: any town in the United States (or the world for that matter) and find the
KC: local McD's closed down from lack of business, two or three vegetarian
chain
KC: resturaunts taking its place, and a group of local resturaunts with the
local KC: variety of vegetarian cuisine.

MT: And you think by preaching tolerance of meat eaters you will succeed in
this
MT: quest?
     It would get them more into the mood to accept you, and since it is easier
for meateaters to go without meat than it is for vegetarians to eat meat;
you'll find meateaters going more without than with.  How many times have we
read in this newsgroup that "So-and-so's SO is a diehard meateater but will eat
my all-veg cooking and make it a point to meet with my diet when it is their
turn to cook." or "Yesterday this diehard Beef Lover swore off all forms of
meat."?  This was only possible because the vegetarian tolerated the
meateater's habits; and as a result the meateater changed habits.
     Think about it, Traub.  You may have lots of trouble working your brain
that hard, but I advise you to think about it.

Finally, a response to Rich Young:

KC: ...As long as it's just Traub spewing his intolerance...I'll be able to
KC: stand up fine and dandy.  Only when he is joined by...others will I
consider
KC: running from rec.food.veg.

RY: Why run when the odds get poor?  The intolerance can't actually DO anything
RY: to you and the more intolerant the statements, the more foolish the
speaker.

If there were seven or eight others; I would have to seriously reconsider
whether I had indeed posted something which didn't fit within the boundaries of
the group.  As it is now, I've had more trouble from people withdrawing from
the group thanx to Traub than from Traub and his supporters.

Carol and James, don't leave.  Things are just getting interesting.

kamchatka charlie
kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu
Peace!  (Shut up, Ice Cube.  I could have said "Don't Worry, Be Happy"