From: col@megadata.mega.oz.au (Colin Newell)
Subject: Re: Subject of 'unusually rich' politicians
Organization: Megadata P/L, North Ryde, Sydney, Aust.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 03:06:11 GMT


Copy of Mail between tstil@auspex.com and col@megadata.mega.oz.au,
reproduced with permission:

> From tstil@auspex.com Thu Aug 20 08:07:10 1992
> From: tstil@auspex.com (Tim Stilwell)
> To: col@megadata.mega.oz.au
> Subject: Re: Subject of 'unusually rich' politicians
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
> Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara
> Cc: 
> 
> >At the start of 1991 there was a military coup in Thailand.  One
> >reason given by the coup leaders for their action was to remove
> >from power 'unusually rich' politicians.  This action had some
> >popular support as it was widely believed throughout the country
> >that the accused politicians were guilty.  Such politicians were
> >barred from being members of parliament.
> 
> >Now here we are 18 months down the track.  A highly respected man
> >is leading the country, and organising elections.  Who is standing
> >for election?  Many of those accused politicians!  How can that be?
> >Incredibly it seems that after all this time, the courts have
> >not yet decided whether the politicians were guilty or not!
> >As long as the courts have not found them guilty they can
> >enter parliament.  It is a state of limbo.
> >Is it not incredible?  I really wonder about Thailand's future
> >when it lets issues like these just hang about without tackling
> >them.  
> 
> It's not that bad!
> Look at the U.S...  we are still trying to decide if Reagan and the CIA

	As far as Reagan is concerned, you are probably right, BUT
	Reagan is no longer standing for election!  Charging/not
	charging him isn't going to directly affect your country's
	future.  These Thai guys ARE standing for election - the
	biggest most notorious guy, Chatichai, could easily
	become prime minister.  ALso, i don't want to get into an
	argument about america's virtues/failings. I'm not American.
	Sorry to disappoint you.

> are guilty for covering up during the Iran/Contra Scandal.
> Besides, where are these "honest" powerful politicians that you were
> hoping would fill in the gap?

	There are a few around: for example Chuan Leekpai of the
	Democrats (I don't known so much about his party members)
	and of course Chamlong Srimuang and the Palang Dharma
	Party.  Members of the Palang Dharma Party may not be
	perfect but I think it would be a great step forward
	if they were elected and formed (part of) the government.

	Anand Panyarachun, the current PM, gets my vote.  He is not
	standing for election, but he is proof that Thailand does
	have people who could govern the country honestly and
	with foresight.  Anand would probably be regarded as too
	pro-business in most countries, but he is a step in the
	right direction.


> Look at the U.S...  we have to put up with a congress that hasn't done
> anything to restructure our budget since Gorbachev ended the Cold War.
> 
> >This situation reminds me of most of the other pressing problems
> >facing Thailand today: e.g. politican and traffic congestion in Bangkok
> >being 2 good examples.  The Thai authorities will not face problems
> >until they are already out of hand.
> >(I was recently in Bangkok and was amazed by
> >the worsening traffic conditions.  As we sat in a mind-numbing
> >traffic jam, my old boss proudly pointed to a
> >freeway under construction: "all the traffic problems will be over
> >in 5 years" - I had to laugh.  The freeways (and skytrain) are a case
> >of too little too late and will do practically nothing to help
> >Bangkok's immense traffic problems.)  Ten years ago, Bangkok had
> >appalling traffic, Chiengmai was OK.  What is the situation today?
> >Chiengmai's traffic is regarded by many as worse than Bangkok's!
> >The reason: the government will not plan ahead and tackle problems
> >as they arise.  Why spend public money on infrastructure when it
> >will only reap a benefit 3 to 5 years down the track.  Better to
> >just ignore such problems.
> 
> Thailand has every right to consider itself a future NIC.  It has several

					well sorry, most commentators
				already consider it a NIC

	(in any case what's this question of 'right' =- why does it need
	a right to do such and such?)

> problems but they are being addressed appropriately.  I was there last

		Thailand has some huge problems, most of which are
		being totally ignored

> month and noted the following:
> 
> 	1. The telephone system in Bangkok was still inadequate, BUT
> 	   a new system will be installed soon!  :-)
>
		Well I don't know what the `:-)' is for - perhaps
	you don't believe that this new system will be installed.
	Two being projects are starting - one to install (one?)
	million lines in Bangkok and another (one?) million in
	the provinces.  These projects are practically underway
	and I don't consider the telephone system a problem.
	 
> 	2. The centralized government has focused mainly on development
> 	   of Bangkok, BUT
> 	   it is now focusing on development of a 2nd seaboard and
> 	   encouraging businesses to relocate to other cities.

	bangkok is still expanding much faster than its infrastructure
	can cope with.  Just drive around the outskirts and look	
	at all the new housing estates and factories.  Then look
	for the new and widened roads to support these developments!

	actually you mentioned one big problem 'focused mainly
	on development' - that's all governments in Thailand ever
	do - they never care about quality of life for the people,
	or thinking about the state of the country or the
	environment even 10 years down the track.


> 	   (this will eventually reduce your traffic problem  :-)

	Absolute rubbish!  If you're referring to the Eastern Seabord
	Project, this project has been going on for at least 4.5 years.
	- the period of time in which I've been involved with
	Thailand.  During this time, (in which you say the traffic
	problem should be easing,), the traffic, not just in Bangkok,
	but in other places, ESPECIALLY CHIENGMAI, has worsened
	markedly.  If they ever succeed in getting business to
	relocate to other cities (which is an idea I support) they
	are going to have the same problem e.g. look at Khon Kaen
	which I know well.  The road system is at the moment JUST
	adequate, because the traffic load is still fairly light.
	But they are slowly enticing more industry to Khon Kaen.
	If they get a big boost to industry in Khon Kaen, before
	they upgrade their roads (and it always happens in that
	order in Thailand) they will have nightmare traffic jams,
	like they do in Bangkok.

	Happy motoring!



> 	    in the meantime, why not use the rotmotocyk?)

	I assume you have spent at least a few hours on Bangkok's
	roads.  The two reasons I don't want to use a motorbike
	in Bangkok is 1) i don't like breathing in that 'air'
	(I naively believe that car airconditioning filters and
	purifies air, making it fit for me to breathe - I realise
	I'm a bit innocent for thinking this, but then there
	are several million other motorists in Bankgok who believe
	exactly the same thing)

	2) i don't want to be referred to by the nickname 'organ
	donor'.



	  Bangkok people think along the following lines:
	if i'm really poor i'll use a bus (2 to 3 baht a pop);
	if i'm a bit richer i'll buy a motor bike and risk my
	life and limb, 
	but if it's in anyway at all possible, I'LL GET A CAR!

	
> 
> 	3. The politicians are still of the Thai-style democracy caliber, BUT

	most (politically educated) thais are absolutely sick to death
	of Thai-style democracy - this is democracy
	consisting of 1) a few weeks of rich businessman and former
	generals scurrying about the country, forming alliances with
	local godfathers and power brokers, BUYING masses of VOTES,
	spending fortunes of money on the limited advertising that
	is allowed: (interesting that there is a limit of 1000000 baht
	per candidate for house of reps in campaign expenditure and
	yet many MPs openly admit they spend 6 times that)

	2) a few weeks of hectic jockeying amongst the successful
	parties to divvy up the ministries and form a government

	3) then the reward: reaping the great benefits and prestige
	that come from controlling an important ministry.  Every
	proposal or request that passes your table needs to
	be appropriately 'greased' to allow its passage.  Just think
	of the goodies to be made by stipulating that XYZ company
	has to do this work, or this new building the ministry needs
	will be built by ABC company (in which your wife has lots of
	shares, great!!!)

	4) For the lesser nobles who did not get to become ministers,
	you can: 
		1) wait for an important parliamentary vote, then sell
		your vote to the highest bidding party
	
		2) enjoy the money you got paid by the big party just to stand
		as a candidate 

		3) wait for a new party to spring up, threaten to join it,
		and get paid off by the current party to stay where you
		are

	
> 	   with all the noise about military intervention, none of the
> 	   important laws have been effected.
> 	   (workers still get worker's compensation, social security
		^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^RUBBISH where do you get your information?
Thailand has no social security system, most workers have no protection,
certainly no worker's compensation.  ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME
COUNTRY?
The social security proposals have been debated in parliament 
for years, but nothing ever happens
	
> 	    students still have to plan on studying at least 9 years "M-3"

	yes, exactly, in order to get a job as a checkout girl in a
	supermarket, or a girl selling one or 2 pairs of jeans a day
	in a big glitzy department store, they have to have M-3.  Too
	bad if you're a bright young girl whose parents could only afford
	to send you as far as M1 or P6 - we know what will happen to you!

> 	    and businesses still have to pay tax "VAT"

	Is that good or bad?  Paying VAT is still a bit of voluntary
	thing for many businesses, last time I asked for a receipt
	after buying electronic parts for my work in Thailand, they
	said 'if you want a receipt, we'll have to put the VAT in'

> 	    did you know, when the military took over the phone system
> 	    none of the banks were effected?)  :-)

			oh come on!! I was in Thailand at the time:
			 all the banks in
			Bangkok closed!!! How do know they weren't affected
> 
> Everything is still changing for the better.  I hope you haven't adopted
> the american value of patience that lasts as long as a television commercial.

     ^^^^^^^^^ I try not to adopt any american values, whatever they 
		might be
> 
> >Best regards,
> >Colin Newell
> 
> tim stilwell
> tstil@auspex.com
> "pud pasa thai nitnoy"
> 	 
> 
> 




Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai