HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson)
Subject: Re: When is Minneapolis Boat Show?
Reply-To: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Organization: Economics Department, University of Minnesota
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:04:36 GMT

niemi@astroatc.uucp (Bob Niemi) writes:

>So may I step down from the soapbox to finally inquire if
>anyone can fill me in on the Twin Cities boat shows date/time/place?

January 27-31 at the new Minneapolis Convention Center.  I don't know
the exact times.  Sorry.

I went to this show 4 years ago when it was at the Metrodome.  It had
enough sail to keep me busy for an afternoon.

>Bob Niemi, Astronautics, Madison, WI   ...uwvax!astroatc!niemi
>About 8-9 weeks to open water, pier reinstall early April, launch
>early May.

Ah Madison.  Now that's a real sailing town.  (I'm a former Hoofer.)
--
T. Scott Thompson              email:  thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Department of Economics        phone:  (612) 625-0119
University of Minnesota        fax:    (612) 624-0209
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:05:06 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:

>In fact, I think that all wheel-steered boats should have a tiller. I have
>one on Sarah, and fortunately the wheel is far enough fwd in the cockpit that
>it can actually be used. The kind of emergency tiller that you have to
>rig "sideways" to make it avoid the wheel is just loony (and probably
>unsafe). Incidentally, I do use the tiller now and then, even when the

My wheel is *behind* the rudder post so that my emergency tiller is
full length and aimed forward as is conventional.  God *knows* what
I would have done with a tiller pointing aft!  :-)  Thanks, Beneteau.

-- Bob (stays *behind* the wheel) Hanners

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Jet Skis (now sailboards)
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:52:46 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.cs.brown.edu

In article <4040@wyse.wyse.com> jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497) writes:
>
>Sailboarders take years of dedicated practice and effort to get to the skill]
>level wher they can terrorize other water users, so however annoying they may be,
>they are not incompetent to operate their craft.

Competence to operate a craft includes (in my opinion) judgement. Some people
can become quite good at motor skills without developing any judgement at all.
Those people are incompetent. Thank God very few of them seem to go
iceboating--the mistakes happen too fast out there. 

-John
From: barney@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Barney McCartney)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Norwalk Islands Sharpies
Date: 27 Jan 1993 09:44:02 -0600
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: emx.cc.utexas.edu

Much to my wife's despair, I'm considering building a 26-foot Norwalk Islands
Sharpie, a center-board, cat ketch designed by Bruce Kirby.  Anyone know
anything about these boats?  Kirby's own boat, named _Exit 12_, apparently
sails out of Norwalk, CT.

I've sent for the study plans, which were advertised in _Wooden Boat_.
Is my wife right?  Is this the height of folly?

Post or E-mail.  Thanks.

                        Barney McCartney
                        barney@emx.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Give me some Ideas!
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 21:45:06 GMT

John F. Hughes writes:

>                                ...I've always thought of boats as having
>personailities in some way, and so I've been reluctant to give them clever
>names...

The best boat name I ever saw was one misty morning in a quiet cove
in Desolation Sound, up in British Columbia. She was an Alajuela 34(?)
double-ender. Everything bristol, comfortable and seamanlike. Not one 
piece of unnecessary gear. Her name - "Home".

Stefan
From: torsten@unisql.UUCP (Torsten Weirich)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:39:56 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1jpjsjINNms@gilligan.East.Sun.COM> mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:


   I know this has been hashed over at least once prior, but
   in light of the recent post someone made referring a person
   who asked about jet skis to rec.annoying.irritating.ought.
   to.be.shot, I thought that this newsgroup really needs to
   be split.

   That way, sailboat people can talk about sailboat things,
   powerboat people can talk about powerboat things, and
   people with personal watercraft can talk about personal
   watercraft things. All without the benefit of someone
   harassing them for their choice of boat type.

   One of the reasons for not splitting I saw before was that
   some people have an interest in both power and sailboating,
   but that's why newsreaders support multiple groups.

   What do the rest of you think?

Why do it?  I have noticed that there are more posts that do not
fall into any of the above categories.  Also, I only recall a
handful of personal watercraft posts.

Besides, perhaps boating will become that much more enjoyable
if we all understand the other guy's point of view instead of
being so `centric' about our own.   

Torsten Weirich

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| UniSQL                      Cursed by a fortune cookie:       |
| 9380 Research Blvd.         "Your principles mean more to you |
| Kaleido II, Ste. 200         than any money or success."      |
| Austin, TX 78759               ^                              |
| Tel: (512) 343-7297            |                              |
| Fax: (512) 343-7383            +-the story of my life... ;-(  |
| Email: unisql!weirich@cs.utexas.edu                           |
| Disclaimer:  something about "plausible deniability"...       |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
From: bobp@cherise.UUCP (Robert Parkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Full Batten Main - Problem
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:29:19 GMT
Reply-To: bobp@cherise.UUCP (Robert Parkinson)
Organization: S&R Software, Incorporated

In article <Jan25.053406.72068@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> bentson@CS.ColoState.EDU (Randolph Bentson) writes:
>In article <20015@mindlink.bc.ca> Bill_Gardner@mindlink.bc.ca
>(Bill Gardner) writes:
>>I want to install Lazy Jacks to assist with dropping the sail
>>but first need to solve the sticky problem of the main battens
>>binding as the sail is raised or lowered.
>
>I saw something that may be a good alternate to lazy jacks.  Does
>anyone know of the operation of the Dutchman Sail Flaking System?
>It's from Martinus Van Breems, Inc., 571 Riverside Avenue, Westport,
>CT 06880, (203)454-0222.

I've got a Dutchman system on my Alberg 30. Installed by the
previous owner. It's a great system. Here's how it operates:

Looking at the mainsail from the side, there are two rows of
grommets installed in vertical rows dividing the main into
approximate thirds. Two plastic coated wires are secured to
the topping lift and weaved down through the main, and secured
to the foot of the main by two fittings attached to the sail.
The wires are weaved through the main in such a way as to 
flake the main when it's lowered.

You must have a running topping lift, which you ease after
raising the main to slack the dutchman wires, and haul in prior 
to lowering the main (although you can adjust the topping lift
after dropping the main). 

So, here's what happens. If your main halyard is led aft
to the cockpit, and you want to drop the main, you trim
the topping lift to tension the dutchman wires, and then
just release the main halyard. The main will drop, perfectly
flaked on the boom, and it will stay there without any sail
ties. You might have to straighten the sail a bit, or not.
If it's blowing like hell, a sail tie or two might be
needed.

This all presumes that your main goes up and down it's track
with little or no binding or resistance. Battcars really
help. My track is a little sticky, so sometimes I have
to go forward and haul the main down. Even so, getting the
main down and controlled is a 30 second evolution. 

You also need to do something about your sail cover. Since the
wires remain in place, attached to the topping lift, you
can't get a normal sail cover on. Mine has two zippers located
where the wires are attached, vertically on the side of the cover.
Another alternative is to lower the topping lift so that it
lays on the sail, then cover the whole thing, a poor solution
I think.

I could live without the dutchman, and my next boat doesn't
have it (Gaff rigged catboat w/lazyjacks) but I sure like
having it.

Anyone in the Baltimore area that wants to see the thing, 
let me know. It'll give me an excuse to go for a sail :-).

I have no relation to the company that sells the Dutchman.

Bob Parkinson
bobp@sandr.com
From: price@helios.unl.edu (Chad  Price)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: charter sailing in greece or turkey
Date: 25 Jan 1993 14:53:52 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.unl.edu

rock@cse.ucsc.edu (Rock Pfotenhauer) writes:

>We (two adults, two kids) will be in Turkey and Greece this March and
>April. We would like to charter a boat for a week of sailing in one of
>these countries. I have had a fair amount of experience sailing dingies,
>but not much with keel boats. (8 week class on Moore 24's) 

>If it's not insane I'd prefer to go bareboat, but if that is either
>stupid or not possible because of lack of certifications a crew would be
>okay, provided they were willing to teach me. 

>We have a minimal budget for this. (That's why we are spending our time
>in these countries.) 

>I'd be grateful for any recommendations. In particular I am hoping for
>advice on whether bareboat is advisable given my experience, places we
>might go to or contact to find inexpensive charters, accounts of other
>people's experiences doing this.

My brother-in-law used to manage the Falcon sailing centre in Baudrum, on the
southern coast of Turkey. It's primarily flotilla sailing for the less
experienced, but is not extra-expensive. Falcon is an England-based company
with mostly UK passport employees. I would guess they advertise in British
magazines. If you are really interested, I can get a phone number, but David is
in New Zealand now, and has no internet access, so it means either a letter
(min 2 weeks round trip) or a phone call. 

For more $$, try Moorings or Sunsail, or call a borker speciallizing in that
area. A private hire may be cheaper (but then you could get nearly anything
from a brand new boat to a very beat-up non-seaworthy boat.)

Its true - there is good wind in the afternoons in Turkey - far better and more
predictable than Greece (according to my brother-in-law after 2 summers there).
--
chad
price@helios.unl.edu
cprice@molecular.unmc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: wwalker@qualcomm.com (Bill Walker)
Subject: Re: sail vs. power vs. jets - suggestion
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:07:14 GMT

In article <knowled.20.728166462@ccsmtp.ccf.org>, knowled@ccsmtp.ccf.org
(Doug Knowles) wrote:
> 
> Instead of splitting the group, we could do as rec.aquaria does:  
> Include in the subject line [S] for sail, [P] for power, and
> [dumb...],  er, I mean, [J] for jet skis.  
> This makes it trivial to selectively read posts of interest.
> For example a post about full length battens might have a subject line of
> 
> [S] Lazy Jacks for full length battens?
> 
> And a post about salt accumulation in outboard motors might be
> [P] salt clogs thermostat
[rest of Doug's post deleted]


Sorry, you just broke your own system.  The clogged thermostat thread was
started by somebody looking for an outboard for his sailboat, and sailors
are definitely interested in different outboards than most powerboaters
(low horsepower, big prop, long shaft).  But of course the advice given
would apply to some powerboat outboards, too.  Either [SP] should be used
here, or (my preference) nothing at all.

----------
Bill Walker - WWalker@qualcomm.com - QUALCOMM, Inc., San Diego, CA
All opinions expressed are mine, and do not reflect those of my employer.
"First thing we do, we kill all the lawyers." - Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: skao@clyde.tcs.com (Simon Kao)
Subject: For Sale: Samourai 24
Organization: Teknekron Communications, Inc
Distribution: ba
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:33:44 GMT


I have a '71 Samourai 24, a French built sailboat that I am selling
for $1000 obo.

Particulars: LOA: 23'9, LWL: 20'7, Displ: 3900lbs, SA/D: 19, sloop rigged,
	fin keel, 6hp recently serviced Evinrude outboard, 4 sails, new VHF.

It's in generally pretty good condition and rides quite well in Bay swells,
but is not exactly fast. It needs a little work to get it completely ship
shape -- the main needs fixing (grommet at head tore out on last voyage),
some wedges need to be put into the tiller to rudder attachment (it's loose),
and the running rigging could be replaced (right now it has new lines attached
to old wire).

It's berthed at the Richmond Harbor Marina.

-Simon Kao
skao@tcs.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: rigg@valeron.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg)
Subject: Rename rec.boats to rec.outdoors.boats
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Madison, Chemical Engineering
Date: 25 Jan 93 11:37:10

Recently, an official RFD (Request For Discussion) was posted to
several group suggesting that several groups be moved to the
rec.outdoors. hierarchy which currently contains just
rec.outdoors.fishing.

If you have any comments about renaming this group, please post them
to news.groups.  Followups to this group and email will not be
considered.  The guidelines state that the official discussion must
take place in news.groups.

tim
--
    ...  Then they came for me,
	   and by that time there was no one
	     left to speak up for me. (Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945)

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Subject: Re: Daggerboard design question
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<16B5F9270.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>
	<thompson.728009462@daphne.socsci.umn.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:50:16 GMT

In article <thompson.728009462@daphne.socsci.umn.edu> thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson) writes:

>But this is not the same as reducing weather helm.  Weather helm is
>the amount that the rudder must be turned (to weather) in order to
>keep the boat tracking in a straight line.  Weather helm reduces
>performance because having the rudder out of alignment with the
>direction of travel through the water creates drag.  This is true no
>matter what tricks you have used to get a "feather" touch on the helm.
>A perfectly symmetrical (fore and aft) rudder will have a neutral feel
>at almost any rudder angle, for example.

This is not an entirely true statement.  _Excessive_ weather helm is
detrimental to performance.  But there is a degree of weather helm
(rudder load) at which you will _minimize_ thet _total_ drag of the
foils on the boat.

Think of it this way.  The induced drag (drag due to load or to lift
created by the foil;) is proportional to the square of load per unit
area (for a constant speed).  So for this example, let us assume that
the rudder is the same size as the dagger (typically rufdders are 40
percent the size of the dagger, but for ease of computation bear with
me).  So if all the load is on the foil (say 1 unit of load) then the
induced drag will be 1 unit of drag.  With zero load on the rudder, we
get zero units of rudder drag and a total of 1 unit total drag.  Now
lets say we take half the load on the rudder (leaving half on the
daggerboard).  So now we get 1/4 unit drag on the dagger (1/2 times
1/2) and 1/4 unit of drag on the rudder (ditto).  Total drag is now
1/2 (1/4 + 1/4).  So by loading up the rudder we got half the total
drag!

This is a common problem with aircraft.  And a sailboat is simply an
airplane turned on its side (rudder=elevator; wing=board/keel).  :-)

--
Al Bowers                       bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
NASA F-18 High Alpha Research Vehicle, Lead Aero
NASA, Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, California
From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:25:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Give me some Ideas!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

How about DAMMIT?-- as in, "Surely you can go to windward better than
that, Dammit?"

B.S!
From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Boat Show
Date: 28 Jan 1993 17:26:46 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: nonsuch.ebay.sun.com

In article 30284@oasys.dt.navy.mil, hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners) writes:
> In rec.boats, dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman) writes:
> >In article 11437@cbnewsj.cb.att.com, legacy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (wayne.m.simpson
> >) writes:
> >> In article <106693@netnews.upenn.edu> karina@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Karina Haa
> >vik) writes:
> >> >Man looking at Catalina 30: 'I don't like this one as much.  It doesn't have
> >> >                             a microwave.'
> >>    He must have just come from the Hunter display. Microwaves and Video
> >> Casette Players are standard (no kidding).
> >I don't suppose the microwaves are gimbaled.
> 
> Alright you guys (and gals)-- Have your fun.  I once snickered like
> that too.  But I've gotten to really appreciate the microwave and a
> few other landlubber appliances.  I've done my share of backpacking
> and sailing under spartan conditions.  (Several times, my brother and
> I sailed our 17' 450# Thistle on 1000 to 1500 mile trips crammed to
> the gunnels with Scuba gear, tents and whatnot-- that's spartan.)
> 
> But snickers aside, one day even one of you may appreciate such
> conveniences when some of the spring has left your step.  'Taint for
> everybody, but we aren't sub-human either.  :-)
> 


Bob,

I'm with you.  I have done my fair share of camping and spartan cruising (is
there much difference), and now I like some creature comforts.  A microwave is
a handy thing to have on a boat on which one spends a lot of time.  However,
I think we both see sailboats as boats to sail, and have design, construction,
rig, etc. high on our priority list when we consider the boats we like.  I 
think the original poster was scoffing at the statement from a person at a
boat show that he liked one boat better than another because one had a 
microwave.  Seems to imply that a micorwave was of upmost importance, and
he didn't realize one could be added to most any boat.  I feel a little sad
for someone who looks at boats and the most important difference he or she
can see is the microwave.

Jeff Huntington
From: cbrown@islesboro.East.Sun.COM (Chris Brown - SunSelect Operations)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Sea Way Brand Info
Keywords: Sea Way
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:35:55 GMT
Reply-To: cbrown@islesboro.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc. - BDC
NNTP-Posting-Host: islesboro.east.sun.com

I'm considering buying a 1988, 17 foot, Sea Way. It is a center console outboard similar in spirit to a Whaler Montauk, except it has a V hull. (It currently resides at the "Repo Depot" in Kittery ME.)

The Sea Way company is no longer in business, but when it did exist it was located somewhere in Maine.

I'd appreciate any info you all might have on the quality and seaworthyness of this boat. And also on the reputation of the manufacturer.

Please E-mail responses directly to me.
Thanks,
Chris Brown  
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Whitewater Rafting in '96 Olympics?
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:29:37 GMT

schultz@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Dennis Schultz) writes:
>I need to start training now.  Where's my beer anyway?

Sorry, I drank it all.

--Chris
From: bartle@vulcan.resmel.bhp.com.au
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Which Roll????
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:50:39 +1000
Organization: BHP Research - Melbourne Laboratories

In article <C1BL27.IIC@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, Brian Horisk writes:
> I too know people who learned to hand-roll before paddle rolling.  This is 
> especially common in people who've played Canoe Polo in a pool before ever
> going on white-water.
> 
> The disadvantage of learning hand-rolling first nis that it becomes an instinct
> so these people tend to throw away their paddle when they get into trouble on
> big water.  One of my friends has lived (fortunately) to regret this habit!

This is because in canoe polo it is a great advantage to be able to roll
very quickly without letting go of the ball (in Aust Canoe Fed rules you 
get five seconds before the ball must leave your body by over a metre)

In our club, however, we also paddle rivers whenever they are up, so most
beginners tend to be taught how to paddle roll first

I have seen people before 'though who could both paddle-roll AND hand-roll
on their first EVER attempt! -- despite having the worst style in the universe!

                         -PeterB