From: brewer@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Steve Brewer)
Subject: Re: [Anglolingvo/English] easy to learn English?
Summary: No, no, no!  SHOW US!
Organization: W M U Centro de Scienca Edukado
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 01:02:00 GMT

I respond to the Vorlin article briefly and then deal at length with
your Ido response.

In article <64136@cup.portal.com> EZ-as-pi@cup.portal.com (Bruce Robert Gilson)
writes:
>Steve Brewer seems to think there is
>no way of saying "Mr." in Vorlin other
>than "Ren" 
>If Steve had looked
>at the Vorlin writings in "vidpuni"
>he would have seen "vonzan" used
>frequently.

I did look at Vidpuni (where else would I have heard of Vorlin?)
but I couldn't find the word in any of the writings included in those
two copies (including the 'core vocabulary list').  I didn't mean
any disrespect, nor did I mean to suggest that such a thing couldn't
be said.  Only that 'Ren' was the closest word that I found, which seemed
pretty funny, to me. 

S-ulo Bruce Gilson, <EZ-as-pi@cup.portal.com>, skribas:

] To Steve Brewer's comment "Don't tell
] us Ido ... is better, SHOW us" I say
] I have done that. People object to
] features like the sexism of Esperanto,
] and I pointed out that Ido has elimin-
] ated that. I think it is exactly that
] sort of post that Steve asks for that
] I have provided.

Perhaps you have misunderstood me.  It seems to me that your article is
just another example of 'telling us.'  Show us!  Post articles in Ido
that argue your point of view.  Show us a community of speakers that
are interested in debating the rightness or wrongness of your viewpoint,
help us see that Ido is not simply an idea, but a real sucessor to
Esperanto that one can use, experience, and be a part of.

I've always been impressed with the Lojban people for the reason that
they aren't just talking about their language -- they're trying to
do something with it.  If I were interested in learning another language
Lojban would be high on the list of possibilities, in spite of the fact
that it looks really hard to me (not only from my perusal of the grammar,
but also from the fact that so few people have yet seemingly mastered it).

I think the Esperanto movement makes a pretty good showing for itself
in this regard.  Our recent _Renkonti^go_ in my town of Kalamazoo, Michigan
had five Esperanto speakers, including a teleconference with a speaker in
the Russian Republic, and a musical performance with a banquet 
and picnic to boot.  Articles in and about Esperanto appear with great 
regularity in our newsgroup.  ELNA has a 1-800 number.  There are a bunch 
of new UEA delegates in the U.S. (including me! :-)  There are many 
beautiful and eloquent magazines in Esperanto that don't talk about the 
language, but rather simply use it for communication (El Popola ^Cinio, 
Monato, Literatura Foiro, Fonto, Heroldo de Esperanto) as well was any 
number that deal with affairs of the movement (Esperanto, Eventoj, 
EsperantoUSA).  The Servoj the exist in Esperanto also show the status 
of our language: Koresponda Servo Mondskala, Pasporta Servo, Delegita 
Servo, UEA Libro Servo, Lingvo Servo, Free Esperanto Course, Cours' 
Gratuit d' Esperanto (pardon my French :-), the Gerda Course,...  I 
could go on -- those are only the ones that come to mind without looking 
in the UEA jarlibro which lists such things.

On the other hand, I'm bound to say that the only things I ever hear about
Ido are articles in English written by you, S-ulo Gilson.  (Oh -- I just
remembered.  I did see another thing about Ido.  An Esperantist in
Pasporta Servo also indicated they spoke Ido.  There!  A point for your
side!)  My perspective is undoubtedly skewed, but my confidence is not 
inspired by your TELLING ME how good Ido is.  Can you even tell me that 
if I learned Ido I'd have access to anything other than Ido-vivo three 
times a year?  Don't tell me about Tom Todd -- he came to our Esperanto 
Renkonti^go anyway.  He even spoke some Esperanto, so he's making good 
progress in acquiring the language (although he's getting a bit deaf, I 
fear).

So, tell me again how good Ido is, but better yet show me a community of
speakers that do something besides talk ABOUT the language.  Show
me some people who use it FOR something.  Show me how Ido can be
useful to me.  Or not.  

-- 
Steven D. Brewer  brewer@cs.wmich.edu     ****     99brewer@lab.cc.wmich.edu
                  Center for Science Education,  Western Michigan University
Vi trovos lin nur post la tajda forkuro, bakita de l' suno, frapita de ondoj
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