HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: akash@sol.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande)
Subject: Re: About contribution of Dravidian to Indian culture
Reply-To: akash@sol.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande)
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:27:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.164446.10025@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>,
alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes... vis-a-vis Virendra,
Selvakumar, Kuram, etc,

>... You have proved after all these long articles
>that you are even more fanatical
>compared to other fanatics

There is no point in being narrowly fanatical about religion, race, gender,
etc, but there is nothing wrong in being fanatical about the pursuit of truth.
For most people, however, this pursuit is soon hijacked by narrow claims.

While Selvakumar claims that the genesis of eternity, so to speak, is Tamil,
all quotes and references in his articles are to incidents and artifacts
that are
later than 500BC. This is ~ Buddhism, far too recent in the span of Indian
cultural development. I have pointed out before that Aryan invasion within the
last 7000 odd years doesn't stand to reason. If there was an invasion
before that,
it is not germane to the discussion of Indian culture as we know it. In
the absence
of an Aryan invasion in our cycle of culture-development in India, it is
useless
to talk of Dravidian being superior to Aryan, etc, because they are only
different
names or at most different aspects/phases of the same process.

Of course, when I say Aryan invasion doesn't stand to reason, I mean
anthropological,
socio-cultural, etc reason. It excellently stands to colonialist reason
by instilling
for ever an inferiority complex in a subject race, especially when
Europe couldn't
stomach the possibility that greater cultures preceded it, and could
easily sweep
it with a little military/economic backing.

With respect to all the recent rambling about subservience of Indian culture,
I suggest that people go to India and see the remarkable interest in and
resurgence of Indian culture - classical and pop, as well as blending,
commingling
and new-creation of modern cultures. Now civic sense - that's another matter.

-Akash
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: ghosh@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sanjoy Ghosh)
Subject: Re: Books and the Indian-American experience
Organization: Univ of Illinois, Center for Supercomputing R&D, Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 00:09:27 GMT

(susan chacko) writes:

>I forgot Hanif K, but I haven't read any of the others. I posted a review
>of The Buddha of Suburbia, by Hanif Kureishi, a few months ago. He
>writes well, but his characters are too caught up in their own sexuality, 
>which seems to define their behaviour almost more than their ethnicity. i.e
>one gets the feeling that life for a British-born lower-middle-class
>homo/bisexual person would not be all that different. 

I thought making his characters homosexual would get them twice the
sympathy.  Being an immigrant in Britain is bad enough.  Being gay 
makes it so much worse.  Its bad enough for english homo-es, for
brown-skinned homo-es it is bad beyond belief.  About the only person
that can tolerate such a guy is his homo lover.  You only have to
see the relationship between the Daniel Day Lewis character and our
desi homo in My Beautiful Laundrette to see that. 

By the way, could you post that review again?  I must have missed it.

>it's great that someone writes about homosexual and bisexual people from 
>the subcontinent, but it seems odd that more people have not written about 
>regular heterosexual recent immigrants, given that homosexuals constitute
>a smallish fragment of the population (5-15%, depending on whose statistics
>you believe).

I am sure there are lots of sociological and anthropological studies.
But why would you expect more literary works on these rather boring,
materialist people who lead rather dull lives, without much romance
or excitement.  Asking your mom to find a girl that you make a trip
home to pick up is hardly the stuff of Jane Austen and Fay Weldon.

>And I completely agree with the Bharathi-Mukherjee comments, and
>would be happy to do some BM-bashing of my own, except that she's
>not here to defend herself :-)

Well, I hope that noble sentiment is shared by the other members of
your mailing list vis-a-vis men.

Sanjoy Ghosh
From: jlaranha@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Jeevan Levin Aranha)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Requesting the Tel # for PEEKAY INTERNATIONAL in NY !
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:45:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

Hi,

Could someone please e-mail the # for PEEKAY INTERNATIONAL in NY.

Thanks a lot .

Jeevan Aranha.

 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: bhatt@src.honeywell.com (Devesh Bhatt)
Subject: Re: HOW WE TIP IN RESTAURANTS
Originator: bhatt@wesley.src.honeywell.com
Reply-To: bhatt@src.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center, Mpls. MN, USA.
	<1992Nov19.142109.13223@news2.cis.umn.edu>
Distribution: USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:00:14 GMT


In article <1992Nov19.142109.13223@news2.cis.umn.edu> prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar) writes:

Satya> My only assertion is this: If the restaurant folks believe that the 15%
Satya> is so critical that the poor waiters cannot have food on their tables
Satya> without that, jeez, make it compulsory. Apparently, save the ostensibly
Satya> stingy Indians, everyone else is paying the 15%, and surely they
Satya> wouldn't mind if it is added to the final amount automatically. Why
Satya> play this idiotic "Oh, you are so nice and Oh. you are so generous"
Satya> game. 

Satya> That something is a norm does not mean we shouldn't question it. Such
Satya> arguments smack of fanatacism rather than rational thought. If all of
Satya> us were to stop tipping, the restaurant business would automatically
Satya> add the 15%, believe me!

Right on!  I will go even further in this line of argument at the risk of
inviting flames.  To me, tipping smacks of a class system rather than a normal
social custom, perhaps a remnant of the British colonial era. E.g., the masters
may tip the servants at their pleasure.  Why do we only tip waiters, barbers,
cab drivers?  Why don't we tip a doctor or auto mechanic for good service?  We
use the standard socio-business principles in those cases: if the service is
bad, do not go there again, etc.  By not questioning the tipping system, we are
helping perpetuate this class system and not doing anything for the good of the
waiters---like giving them equal status and respect.  The only people who
benefit through this system are the employee-exploiting restaurant owners and
those frugal customers who deliberately tip less than the norm.  I have no
sympathy for either group.

Satya> The IRS argument is flawed. The recognition of 'tips' by IRS is not
Satya> a validation of the norm but an indication of how desperate IRS
Satya> is to squeeze the last cent out. If the norm were rationalized, trust
Satya> me IRS will be the first one to be thrilled. And I will be running
Satya> a strong second :-)

IRS probably will probably collect more money in taxes, such as matching
employer FICA, if tips were made part of the bill and disbursed to employees as
wages.

Devesh.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:37669 ba.market.housing:3975
From: srangan@scdt.intel.com (Shantha Ranganathan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,ba.market.housing
Subject: Town House for Rent
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:28:55 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Intel Corp.

3 bedroom - 1.5 bath town house for rent
            large kitchen, washer-dryer
            fenced in backyar

Location:  Centrally located in Santa Clara with
           easy access to light rail, 237, 101,
           880 and San Tomas Expressway

Available from December 15. Rent $1050 

For further details contact:  Ben Mulugata
                              415-327-8000
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: rajain@scotty.ecs.umass.edu (Rajat Jain)
Subject: Re: Excluding men
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:17:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.043554.11406@cs.wayne.edu>, uds@trace.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar) writes:
|> 
|> does the indian-women mailing list mean that the sci football field is now
|> safe for the rampaging MCPs and their jokes...  I got a couple of MCP jokes,
|> but held back seeing that the ladies onthe net dont like it at all...

	Hey.....come on dooode, there ain't no more ladies on SCI now!

	Post those jokes !!!!


|> 
|> 
|> Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
|> (email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
|> 

	eagerly awaiting,

		rAjAt
From: sdoki@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Suresh Doki)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: test again
Date: 20 Nov 1992 04:05:18 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

this is another test to see if my .sig is getting appended.

the first one failed.


suresh

i hope i make it atleast this time.
From: sdoki@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Suresh Doki)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Einstein on religion
Date: 23 Nov 1992 22:12:05 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

In the bliss of his ignorance (Vijay Fafat) writes:

>An interesting quote by Einstein on the subject of religion :
>"Religious thought is an attempt to find an out where there are no doors."
>---A. Einstein (1938?)

reminds me of a much better saying by jim morrison:

there are things that are known to us and things that are not: in
between are the doors.

suresh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar)
Subject: Re: HOW WE TIP IN RESTAURANTS
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:21:09 GMT

In article <3877@key.COM> patel@key.amdahl.com writes:
>From prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar)
>> If they treat tip as a gratuituous payment, they should shut up and take 
>> what they get and be professional about it.
>
>Tipping is a social etiquette. And it may happen that many indians only
>think of their bottom line and not know why some social norms were put
>in practice. The explanation in original posting of why poor tips may result
>in poor service is only one good reason to be tipping with the norm.  The 
>payscale for waiters is set based on the fact that they will be tipped.
>I don't know why/how this system should be changed, but it exists and
>we live by it or we set our indian community apart as a selfish, stingy bourgoies.

Well, let me confess that I succumb to the norm and pay the obligatory
10-15% (based on service) when I eat out.

But the practise rankles me to no end. If one were to apply this principle
broadly, shouldn't we be tipping everyone who renders service - the
waiter at McDonals who fills your order, the postoffice person who sells
you such nice stamps! So, tipping is not a social etiquette as you would
have us believe. If it were you should be tipping McDonals flipper.

My only assertion is this: If the restaurant folks believe that the 15%
is so critical that the poor waiters cannot have food on their tables
without that, jeez, make it compulsory. Apparently, save the ostensibly
stingy Indians, everyone else is paying the 15%, and surely they
wouldn't mind if it is added to the final amount automatically. Why
play this idiotic "Oh, you are so nice and Oh. you are so generous"
game. 

That something is a norm does not mean we shouldn't question it. Such
arguments smack of fanatacism rather than rational thought. If all of
us were to stop tipping, the restaurant business would automatically
add the 15%, believe me!

The IRS argument is flawed. The recognition of 'tips' by IRS is not
a validation of the norm but an indication of how desperate IRS
is to squeeze the last cent out. If the norm were rationalized, trust
me IRS will be the first one to be thrilled. And I will be running
a strong second :-)

Prabhakar
From: akm7910@summa.tamu.edu (MALLIK, ARNAB KUMAR)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: CONFIRMED TICKET FROM HOUSTON TO CALCUTTA
Date: 23 Nov 1992 00:46 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: summa.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


Hi Everybody,
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	      following specifications are available for sale:

	      Airline : Thai airways
	      Departure : 17th December from Houston (on Continental via LA)
	      Stop-over : In Bangkok overnight (Hotel fare included)
	      Arrival : 19th December in Calcutta
	      Return journey : From Calcutta on 19th January (following similar
							      schedule on way 
							      back to Houston)
              Fare : $ 1245
	      
              The tickets are to be purchased by Tuesday 11/24/92.

              Anyone interested, please send a mail to the following mailing
	      address:

	      akm7910@venus.tamu.edu / (409) 846-6324

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	      Thank you, 
			 Arnab K. Mallik
			 (11/21/92)

Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:37128 soc.culture.indian.telugu:1037
From: sdoki@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Suresh Doki)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.indian.telugu,wpi.students.desis
Subject: Re: Request to Doki, fafat, nimmala, ed, raj etc..(Was war of words)
Date: 15 Nov 1992 22:56:40 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

In a rare fit of vernacular exposition  Ravi Kiran writes: [tm]

>Also will Sreehari Nimmala, Ed Crick, Raj Kannan etc., etc.,
>do the same and get off the net.  All you guys know each others
>addresses it would save everybody some trouble if you guys 
>talk to each other personally.  It started as discussion in bad
>taste and has developed into a discussion of worse taste. 
>I actually appreciate Suresh Doki's opinion that this is too
>much, to be on the net.  
>(>yes doode but too much pondy stuff in this article....... i decided to
>>ignore it............the net pullice will catch me by my balls.......
>>my heel balls i mean...
>>
>>suresh
>It is a pity seeing these guys cursing each other even before
>they can know the other person a little better.   I feel that all
>you guys might be quite decent but are into this namecalling
>just because it is so easy to do it on the net.  Let not the humour 
>go, let not things get too personal.   There is no reason at all for 
>you guys to talk about each others families in such a manner. 
>However if you think it is all too important and that the world will
>explode if you dont continue this discussion, please do so directly
>and avoid yourself some embarassment on the net. 
>Please save yourself the trouble of answering this post / flaming me
> for I am not interested in a discussion.
>ravi kiran.
>p.s.:  A quote from the book "Friendly advice - take it or leave it"
>	It is better to remain silent and leave some doubt, than to open your
>mouth and remove all doubt about your stupidity.
>(No flames please).

aawwwwwhoooooooobooooooooohaaaaaaaahoooooooohaa

just when i was going to retire from SCI, i was given a title by some
morAn. now i decided to stick along.......... to prove that i really
can be what you want me to be.........ooooooohhhhhhh so sad....that is
all i can say....... 

suresh
From: nagappa@Rosie.UH.EDU (C Nagappa - behind the scenes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: HOW WE TIP IN RESTAURANTS
Date: 18 Nov 1992 23:15:05 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Reply-To: nagappa@Rosie.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu

>>I guess most of our people work in restaurants because of the tuition fees
>>other expenses. We need to support them by atleast paying a little bit more 
>>than the average. 
>
>I don't mean to be rude, but my answer is 'Tough!"
>
>If they treat tip as a gratuituous payment, they should shut up and take 
>what they get and be professional about it.
>
>However, if they see tip as a means of survival in business, they
>should consolidate it into the final amount and save everybody lots
>of heartache (like they do in Europe).
>
>By definition, you cannot demand a gratuity, nor do I see the reason why
>anyone should even pay it. I don't pay gratuity to my garbageman who picks 
>up my trash every week, why should pay the waiter whom I may never see again?
>
>Prabhakar


	What an utterly *cheap* argument!

	Tipping is never demanded. It is *expected* - as a courtesy for good
service. Its a way of saying "I very much appreciate you taking care of my
needs". Many waiters get most of their money through tips. The expected tip
for decent service is 15%, more for good service and less for bad service.

	IMHO, it is extremely rude not to tip appropriately. It speaks very
lowly of one, especially if one is a rich doctor or scientist. How conveniet
it is to have amnesia about the fact that not long ago you too was a starving
student!

	BTW, garbage collectors never expect tips. So your argument falls flat.
 
Chetan Nagappa










Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: rpsingh@uwovax.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: HOW WE TIP IN RESTAURANTS
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:42:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.170725.5943@utagraph.uta.edu>, gupta@cse.uta.edu (Arun Gupta) writes:
>     There has been several articles on the above topic recently. Let me put in
> my 2 cents worth: I feel that tipping and bribes are one and the same thing. If
> one needs something done, one bribes; if one needs good service, one tips.
> However the difference is that one pays the bribe before the job and one tips
> after the service (the server is not sure if the bribe will be offered after
> the service is performed).
> 
>     Comments anyone?
Its not the same thing. There are quite a few differences apart from
the one that you mentioned. Once you bribe, you lose control over the
proceedings and its the receiver's goodwill or whatever you call..
whether or not you'll get your job done. In this case, you have the
control until you are about to leave the restaurant. The best bet for
the waiter would be to hope for the goodwill of his customer.

For most Indian restaurants I've found that there is a differential
treatment. Whatever the reason may be, but it's sometimes very rude.
If you do your job without any malice towards anyone with ahappy face
you would surely get rewards for that. Some can afford to pay more than
20% and some can't, but that doesn't give you or anyone the right to make
fuss about it. Afterall it's a TIP. Also, a person getting into waiting
tables should realise: 'BEGGERS ARE NOT CHOOSERS' (Now! don't take it 
literally.)
Ravi.

*******************************************************************************
`It's foolish to be wise in the company of fools.' 
                                                     
*******************************************************************************
Ravi P. Singh                    *    E-mail: rpsingh@hydra.uwo.ca
Dept. of Physics                 *    Phone : (519)-679-2111 Ext.6556 [off]
University of Western Ontario    *            (519)-433-6291 [Res.]
London N6A 3K7, Ontario          *    Fax   : (519)-661-2033 
 C A N A D A                     *
********************************************************************************
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:37265 soc.culture.indian.telugu:1067
From: sdoki@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Suresh Doki)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,wpi.students.desis,soc.culture.indian.telugu
Subject: Re: ????
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:32:13 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

In the bliss of his ignorance (P. Ialamanna) barks:

>Who the frick is this doki character and why does every other fricking
>post mention him? I'm sicking of reading this shit and wish all you
>ignoramuses continue this irrelevant,useless, dicussion elsewhere or
>through e-mail.

open mode: nimmi

your mother would be the best person to ask IMHO.

close mode: nimmi


anywayS you don't fit to be here if you don't know who i am.


suresh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: adesai@iastate.edu (Alpaa Desai)
Subject: Re: Bill Clinton
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 21:26:01 GMT

I think there cuting down on military aid to others should help in the peace
process all over the world. This naturally will have implications for all
the countries (hopefuly for the better).

The other thing is that they have promised to pump in a few billin dollars a 
year into telecommunications, distributed databases for information centres
and electronic town halls every year. All these will require a lot of software
and Indian's can try to grab a big chunk of that new demand. Our software
exports are as it is growing tremendously every year. Byte once had an article
which said that Indian's are the best programmers in the world.

All this will certainly depend on their puting into action all the things that
they promised to do. If it's another one of those "read my lips" kind of
thing, then who can say what their election's impact is going to be on India.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: rajain@sml12.ecs.umass.edu (Rajat Jain)
Subject: Re: RISK!!
Organization: Project Pilgrim, Umass
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:56:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.040439.15510@seas.gwu.edu>, khatri@seas.gwu.edu (Anil Khatri) writes:
|> A friend of mine took this from soc.culture.iranian and I found it pretty 
|> interesting so I am posting it in our newsgroup.
|> 
|> To laugh is to risk appearing a fool.
|> To weep is to risk appearing sentimental.
|> To reach out for another is to risk involvement.
|> To expose feelings is to risk rejection.
|> To place your dreams before the crowd is to risk ridicule.
|> To love is to risk not being loved in return.
|> To go forward in the face of overwhelming odds is to risk failure.
|> 
|> But risks must be taken because the greatest hazard in life
|> is to risk nothing. The person who risks nothing, has nothing,
|> is nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he cannot
|> learn, feel, change, grow or love. Chained by his certitudes,
|> he is a slave. He has forfeited his freedom. Only a person
|> who takes risks is free.

	Yo Khatri!!! Bravo !!! (woof! woof! woof!). Excellent posting!!!

	But what in the hell is such a beautiful article doing on SCI ?
	;-) ;-)


|>  
|> +------------------------------------------------------------------
|> |This message was posted to SCI via direct e-mail.  Yours truly is
|> |not responsible for its contents!             Shahrokh Mortazavi.
|> 
|> 

  rAjAt.

PS: Amaan, Khatri saahab, woh Bhalla babu D.C. aa rahey hain kyaa Turkey day
    peh ?? 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: shalan@engr.latech.edu (Shivram Halan)
Subject: Re: password
Reply-To: shalan@engr.latech.edu
Organization: Louisiana Tech University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:58:42 GMT

>From sdoki@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Suresh Doki)
>Newsgroups: wpi.students.desis,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.indian.telugu
>Subject: password
>Date: 21 Nov 1992 00:44:09 GMT
>
>
>Is there anyone who knows Waheeda from PSG Tech? She is a CS major i
>think and passed out from PSG tech in 1989. 



>>>suresh
>>

	I do.  I passed out from tech in 89'.  But, I'm still alive  (obviously).  She passed out in 89' but I don't know if she's still alive.  
	she must have graduated with a B.Sc. [ computer science].

	If you studied in tech, what an embarassment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!