HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) NEWS and teaching (6)
Organization: University of Louisville
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 11:39:59 GMT


Date:          Fri, 24 Jul 1992 07:09:06 EDT
From:          BITNET%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET"  Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:    <1992Jul24.070906.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:       NEWS and teaching (6)
Reply-to:      BITNET%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET"  Robert Royar
Organization:  Cratylus Educational Software

Welcome to TERRI CONONELOS <Terri.Cononelos@m.cc.utah.edu> who in
Message-id: <3CCE24186A009922@CC.UTAH.EDU> wrote of a teaching project with
NEWS.  I have just a few comments.

You're likely to get some feedback on this from the MBU readers of this Digest
material because many of them have done similar projects in the US.

You might add a bit to your history of the net to include Usenet.  I believe
all the news groups you mentioned in paragraph four are actually Usenet news
groups that "gateway" into Internet sites.

You may also be interested in the Usenet University which is now offering
"courses" via Usenet. I know the parent site for Usenet University (alt.uu.) is
in Finland, but I can't find the article describing it anywhere.  Perhaps one
of the kind souls at Andrew.CMU (Andrew system at Carnegie Melon) who
originally forwarded the alt.uu info to this Digest could fill you in.

Keep us posted on your progress.

 --Robert Royar (r0mill01@ulkyvx.bitnet) New York Institute of Technology

*************************************
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Re: RE: Any Mark Leyner fans around? (6) (4)
Organization: University of Louisville
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 09:01:41 GMT


Date:          Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:41:34 EDT
From:          BITNET%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET"  Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:    <1992Jul22.044134.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:       Re: RE: Any Mark Leyner fans around? (6) (4)
Reply-to:      BITNET%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET"  Robert Royar
Organization:  Cratylus Educational Software

Thanks Bob Connors for the suggested reading _Time's Arrow_ by Martin Amis. I
will look for it on my next book-buying outing.  Mark Leyner's new
(forthcoming?) book is titled _Steroids Made My Friend Jorge Kill His Speech
Therapist: An ABC After School Special_.  It was rumored to be headed for my
local haunt's shelves some time last week.

I also wish to thank Martin Rosenberg for his response to my description of
Daniel Dennet's _Consciuosness Explained_ in which Martin recommended I look
for Humberto Maturana.  I've just completed _Tree of Knowledge_ (co-authored
with Francisco Varela) and found it very useful.  It made parts of the Dennet
book much easier to understand although Denet does not reference Maturana who
preceded his latest by five years.  I recommend _Tree of Knowledge_ to Allene
Cooper who's currently searching for models of communication.  Warning:
Maturana and Varela seem very at home with systems science approaches
(although to describe their ideas as mechanistic would be perverse).  The book
is something of a history of the Universe in about 200 pages culminating in a
description of the social creation of consciousness and ethics in the human
"linguistic system".

 --Robert Royar (r0mill01@ulkyvx.bitnet) New York Institute of Technology

------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: kwc@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Ken Collier)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Colleges Need to Fix the Bugs in Computer-Science Courses
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:33:33 GMT
Organization: Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff AZ

In article <1992Jul28.145301.27057@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> waltp@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (waltp) writes:
>In engineering, there is a separation between engineering degrees
>and engineering technology degrees.  I think we need the same
>distinction in computer science.  Many (most?) CS graduates
>go to work as applications programmers and could benefit from
>less theoretical computer science and more practical work in
>related areas (business OR engineering OR physics OR...)
>

While you may have a convincing argument  for  playing  down  the
theoretical  education  that  CS  majors  get and emphasizing the
practical, we have observed some serious problems with  this  ap-
proach.   I am in the computer science department at Northern Ar-
izona University which is housed in the  College  of  Engineering
and  Technology.   Except  for  CS  all  of the other engineering
departments in our college (EE,ME,CE) have had tech  alternatives
for  the  past 15 years or so.  Feedback from alumni have told us
that people with tech degrees  have  greater  difficulty  getting
jobs and  command lower salaries with far fewer opportunities for
advancement.  As a result of this, the tech enrollments have been
on a steady decline until this past Spring when the tech programs
were finally given a proper burial.   So,  my  position  is  that
although,  "...there  is a separation between engineering degrees
and engineering technology degrees."  This is not a very good ap-
proach  to  engineering (or computer science) education.  If stu-
dents are well grounded in the theoretical underpinnings of  com-
puter science the rest is a cakewalk (e.g., learning systems pro-
gramming, database management, etc.)
From: pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel)
Subject: Re: Computers in the Classroom - are they out there?
Keywords: Computers classrooms education
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY, 12866
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:47:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.152530.1675@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> paw@coos.dartmouth.edu (Pat Wilson) writes:
>
>Dartmouth has been successful in getting computing deeply imbedded
>in much of its curriculum (even in non-traditional areas, such as
>the humanities).  We're aided by the fact that owning some sort of
>computer is now a requirement for undergraduates, and that we've
>standardized wherever possible   [...]
>--
>Pat Wilson
>Systems Manager, Project NORTHSTAR
>paw@northstar.dartmouth.edu


It also helps to have/had a college president who was a big name in
the computer field!

-- 
Pierre von Kaenel	| Skidmore College	     | pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu
Math & CS Dept.		| Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 | (518)584-5000 Ext 2391
When asked his position on euthanasia, our local state rep. responded:
"I support youth all over the world."
From: g_harrison@vger.nsu.edu (George C. Harrison, Norfolk State University)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Colleges Need to Fix the Bugs in Computer-Science Courses
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:26:02 EDT

In article <1992Jul21.042112.21715@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, pattis@cs.washington.edu (Richard Pattis) writes:
> The July 15th issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education has this article on
> page B3, as an opinon piece by Nathaniel S. Borenstein.
> 
> Rich Pattis
> 
>                                                        
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Richard E. Pattis			"Programming languages are like
>   Department of Computer Science	 pizzas - they come in only "too"
>     and Engineering			 sizes: too big and too small."

Rich, I thought you would make a comment on this article.  I read it and felt
that Borenstein was concentrating more on Programmer-Education rather than
Computer Science Education.

George

George C. Harrison
Department of Computer Science
Norfolk State University
g_harrison@vger.nsu.edu

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: elee@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Erik Lee)
Subject: Wanted: source code of internetworking with TCP/IP by comer
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:26:00 GMT


Hi! Fellows,

    Does anybody know where can I get source code of Internetworking 
    with TCP/IP Volume II, written by Douglas E.Comer and 
    David L.Stevens.

    Your help will be much appreciated.

Erik Lee
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: How to control permissions on incoming FTP?
Date: 30 Jul 1992 06:32:53 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gandalf.think.com

In article <51690@drilex.dri.mgh.com> dricejb@drilex.dri.mgh.com (Craig Jackson drilex1) writes:
>Is there any way, using the standard ftpd which one might receive with
>Ultrix or SunOS, for example, to control the permissions on incoming files?
>I just did a sample put (from a PC), and the file was stored with
>permisions of rw-rw-rw- (wide open).

Others have already suggested getting public ftpd source and adding a
umask() call.

Another solution is to run ftpd via a script that first sets the umask and
then execs the real ftpd.  I believe the standard BSD telnet just inherits
its umask from its parent.
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
From: mwr@tridom.uucp (Mark Reardon)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Decnet Packets over Sun Router ??
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:32:00 GMT
Reply-To: mwr@tridom.uucp (Mark Reardon)
Organization: AT&T Tridom; Marietta, Georgia

In article <1992Jul20.151114.9155@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>, redmill@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu (Keith A. Redmill) writes:
|> I have a Sun 4 (IPC) with two ethernet cards running as a router for
|> a small subnet.  I would like to install some vax stations under this
|> subnet but Decnet packets don't seem to make it through the sun routed
|> software.  
|> 
|> Can this be done??
|> 
|> --------------------------------------------------------------
|> redmill@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu
|> -- 
|> Keith A. Redmill     (redmill@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu)
|>     The opinions expressed above are well reasoned and insightful.  Needless to
|>     say, they are not those of OSU, its faculty, or lackeys.  Anyone who says
|>     otherwise is itching for a fight.  -- Whad'ya Know? 

The vaxes are running either Decnet IV or the new OSI based Decnet.
in either case, the Suns won't handle it without some new software.
The Sun handles IP and that is it.  The four solutions are :

1. Upgrade the vaxes to use tcp/ip.
2. Upgrade the Sun to route the correct Decnet.
3. Replace the Sun with either a bridge or router to handle all 
   protocols.
4. Place a bridge or router in parallel with the sun and have it
   handle all non IP traffic.

My personal preference would be 3.  Especially if I could get a low
cost, two ethernet port PC and a copy of the PCBridge software.
Then, for the cost of the PC I get back a Sun.  This would however 
require that the IP hosts on both ethernets be part of the same
(sub)network.

-- 
Mark

---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Mark Reardon           |  AT&T Tridom                             |
| mwr@eng.tridom.com     |  840 Franklin Court                      |
|                        |  Marietta, GA 30067                      |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: oberman@ptavv.llnl.gov
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: SMTP mail
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:57:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.175238.20719@mmm.serc.3m.com>, ccg@tcdsp1.mmm.com ("Charles Ganzhorn") writes:
> I'd like to jump in here and ask a couple of questions:
> 
> What is MIME?

If memory serves it is Multimedia Internet Mail Extensions.

It's the new multi-media mail proposal. It provides the capability to include
non-textual material in a mail message in a standardized way so that it may be
properly handled. This includes sound, images, and a variety of other things.

> Secondly, I fail to see why forgery is not considered a breach of security.

It depends on your definition of "breach of security". It does not provide any
access to your operating system of files to unauthorized users nor can it
allow the compromise of data on your system. In government terms (and I suspect
others), that is what a breach of security is. Mail, itself, cannot breach
security. It can do other things like embarrass people who believe everything
they read, though. And, in doing so might cause a LOT of trouble.

> Next, saying that mail doesn't require privacy is just caving in to the fact that
> I can't get it with SMTP.

Once again, this is NOT a function of SMTP! That's like saying that you will
not allow the postman to deliver mail because some of it may be forged.
 
> A good mail system should include authentication, privacy, arbitrary file 
> attachments, acknowledgement, directory look-ups, and mailing lists just to 
> name a few features.  

Would be nice. So why don't you sit down and write it?
 
> Now, SMTP doesn't preclude any of this:  the user interfaces for SMTP
> are just crude.  The only part that SMTP really interferes with is that
> everything (as far as I know and correct me if I'm wrong) must be transmitted in a
> text format.  That puts undue stress on the mailers to encode everything.

MIME takes care of this.
 
> What has been people's experience with the NYSERnet X.500 trial and did they 
> come up with any decent user interfaces with, for example, an integrated
> directory look up?

Works quite well. We use QUIPU here.

And, on a side note, while RFC931 identification is not a bad thing, it's of
limited value on E-Mail due to gatewaying. I refuse to call it an
authentication server because it is NOT. It's trivial to fool...if you know
it's there. It works fairly well for the moment because it's still unusual and
forgers are not expecting it.

This does not mean I am opposed to 931 and its descendents, but it should not be
though of as a real security measure, only a tool.

R. Kevin Oberman			Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Internet: koberman@llnl.gov		(510) 422-6955

Disclaimer: Don't take this too seriously. I just like to improve my typing
and probably don't really know anything useful about anything.
Newsgroups: Pnews,comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: nqueipo@euler.Berkeley.EDU (Nestor Queipo)
Subject: Network programming problem!
Reply-To: nqueipo@euler.Berkeley.EDU (Nestor Queipo)
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:44:20 GMT




I would like to hear suggestions about how to solve the following 
problem.

	A local process has a list of machines in Internet at
	its disposal. The local process should be able to execute
	processes remotely and monitor their execution. The remote
	processes should be able to interrupt the local process
	under different circumstances (e.g termination, error,etc).
	Finally, when any of the remote processes is finished it
	should provide the local process with data result of its 
	execution through files or any other convenient way.

In short, I am looking for a strategy that would allow me to asynchronously
control the execution of remote processes. What do you think would be the
simplest way of doing this? I do not need real-time interaction over TCP/IP.

Thanks in advance,

Nestor
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.protocols.pcnet
From: saty@ntc.togliatti.su (Sergey A. TsYbanov)
Subject: Problem remain the same ( about Clemson University Packet Driver )?
Reply-To: saty@ntc.togliatti.su
Organization: AutoVAZ Research & Development Centre
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 13:50:19 +0400

Hi !

rh0083b@medtronic.COM (Roger-Hunen)  writes :
		
>        I suppose that you try to send a packet while you are in the receiver
>       (called by the packet driver)? Well, I vaguely remember a statement from
>        Russ Nelson that this may not work with 1.09 compliant drivers. The spec
>       does not say anything about this, but the general consensus is that it is
>        bad practice.

I don't understand why it is BAD practice.  "DE200PD.SYS" for DE-200 card
has not this bug.

>       What you could do is to have the response packet sent at the next timer
>        interrupt.
	
I think that it is not a solution B-(.
Priority of IRQ0 ( timer device ) greater than priority of IRQ
of ethernet card  and timer interrupt may be occured while receiver
of packet driver works.  Problem remain the same ?

! iH
-- 
 ******************* Is There Anybody Out There ? **********************
 *                   SATY ( Sergey A. TsYbanov ).                      *
 *  E-mail : saty@ntc.togliatti.su Phone : number +7 (8482) 378-17-53. *
 ***********************************************************************
From: fenner@cmf.nrl.navy.mil (William C Fenner)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Decnet Packets over Sun Router ??
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:29:44 GMT
Organization: NRL Connection Machine Facility, Washington, DC

In article <1992Jul22.203200.28669@tridom.com> mwr@tridom.uucp (Mark Reardon) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.151114.9155@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>, redmill@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu (Keith A. Redmill) writes:
>> [Can I route DECNet using a Sun?]
>
>The four solutions are :
>
>1. Upgrade the vaxes to use tcp/ip.
>2. Upgrade the Sun to route the correct Decnet.
>3. Replace the Sun with either a bridge or router to handle all 
>   protocols.
>4. Place a bridge or router in parallel with the sun and have it
>   handle all non IP traffic.

5. Encapsulate your DECNet packets into IP packets, which the Sun can then
route.  A grad student at PSU wrote some software that runs on a 386 PC that
will create a "virtual ethernet" via IP routing.  It requires one PC on each
seperate routed network that wants to be part of the "virtual ethernet".
It can filter (I think -- it's been a while since I talked to him about it)
based on Ethernet address and/or protocol numbers.

The only disadvantage is that you need a dedicated PC in each location.

  Bill
-- 
Bill Fenner                  fenner@cmf.nrl.navy.mil
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger)
Subject: Stopping only incoming TCP connections (was: Firewall usage)
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:22:11 GMT

smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes:

>The *real* definition is that the connection was initiated
>from the inside.  Otherwise, the packet could be from a connection
>initiated *from* port 513 on a dedicated attacker's machine, and to
>some service on an inside machine.  But routers don't keep track of
>connections, they look at individual packets.

I was under the impression that if you filter all the SYN packets from
one direction that aren't SYN ACKs, bingo, you can't initiate any
incoming TCP connections.  Nice and stateless. The only flaw is that
implementations that seperately ACK the initiating SYN and then send
their own SYN won't be able to connect, but they are rare. Connections
could still be hijacked by various mechanisms, but they can't be
initiated, and there is a limited amount of damage a hijacker can do.
I was also under the impression that some recent routers will actually
let you do this trick.

Am I egregiously wrong about this?


--
Perry Metzger		pmetzger@shearson.com
--
		  Just say "NO!" to death and taxes.
			 Extropian and Proud.
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Subject: Re: Decnet Packets over Sun Router ??
Reply-To: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Distribution: world,local
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 19:49:43 GMT


In article <1992Jul24.195035.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>, harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
|>In article <1992Jul23.193824.15759@eco.twg.com>, reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack) writes:
|>> Or WIN/TCP. The next release (called Pathway for VMS V1.0; don't ask why)
|>> also supports DECnet over IP.
|>
|>Is the method used compatible with the method used by MultiNet?

Yes, it is.

--
Reece R. Pollack
Senior Software Engineer
The Wollongong Group, Inc.
Xref: sparky comp.protocols.tcp-ip:3813 comp.dcom.sys.cisco:985
From: art@acc.com (Art Berggreen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: Re: Multiple Subnets and Non-byte boundary netmasks
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:06:34 GMT
Organization: ACC, Advanced Computer Communications

In article <1992Jul23.224600.11081@polari> jsanchez@polari.online.com writes:
>A potential customer of ours wants some advice and I thought I would run
>it past the net.  Some/all of this may be a FAQ but bear with me.  First,
>he wants to be able to create lots of subnets and as a consequence is
>parsimonious with ip addresses.  He thinks that being able to run multiple
>subnets from one router port would allow him to have small subnets (to
>save IP addresses) and yet put several of them together in one physical
>ethernet segment.  Kinda weird I admit but that is the way customers are.
>
>To accomplish the above, he plans on running a netmask that is not on byte
>boundaries.  Nothing in principal wrong with this but are there practical
>problems that would lead you to avoid this kind of configuration.

Having multiple subnets one a wire is not that uncommon.  It's often
done when a site wants to have all subnets be the same size (hard to
avoid when running RIP), and some LANs have many more hosts than other
LANS.

The only problem I can think of right now with non octet aligned masks,
is that some older host TCP/IP implementations would only take octet
sized chuncks on netmasks.

Art
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: mjr@hussar.dco.dec.com (Marcus J. "will do TCP/IP for food" Ranum)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Digital Pathway ?
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:17:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Washington ULTRIX Resource Center

>Can anyone provide a phone number or address for Digital Pathway?

	Digital Pathways, Inc
	201 Ravendale Ave.
	Mountain View, CA 94043

	Tel: 415.964.0707 

mjr.
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: harbirk@ifi.uio.no (Harbir Singh Kohli)
Subject: internet connectivity in France and Germany
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 09:35:15 GMT
Originator: harbirk@slora.ifi.uio.no


I am looking for public access to the internet in Germany and France
as my friend will be working at the French embassy in Bonn, and would 
like to stay in touch. I will be grateful for all leads.

thanks

kohli

Please reply to : singh%cxrl.decnet@thor.xraylith.wisc.edu, as I am 
posting this for her on the net. I will summarize if enough interest 
is there.