HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.COM (Laurie Mann)
Subject: Domestic Violence Action
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:55:09 GMT

This came to me via some folks at Digital (yes, there still are folks
at Digital):

-------
Help convince NBC to put domestic violence awareness public service
announcements on during the superbowl!  (talk about reaching a lot of
your target audience...)

For political activists, or media watchdogs, or just concerned women,
here's a quick something you can do to help prevent and stop domestic
violence.

Super Bowl Sunday - which this year is January 31, here in southern
California at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena - is the single worst day for
domestic violence in the USA.  There is an increase of as much as 40%
in the volume handled by domestic violence shelters on this day.

To try to stem this tide of violence, the Women's Action Coalition
(WAC) of Los Angeles is supporting the campaign by Fairness and
Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) to convince NBC (the network carrying the
game) to carry two Public Service Announcements on domestic violence
during the Super Bowl this year.  Anna Quindlen of the New York Times
wrote a fine editorial in the 1/17/93 edition of the Times supporting
this effort as well.

What I am asking of you - and all your friends (please PLEASE
cross-post this to _any_ lists you can think of) - is to help us with
a FAX/LETTER blitz on NBC, asking for these PSA's.  Here is a sample
letter:

Dick Ebersol
President, NBC Sports
NBC
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY  10112

Dear Mr. Ebersol:

We (I) support FAIR's request that you air two Public Service
Announcements on domestic violence during the Super Bowl game.  The
Super Bowl is one of the most widely viewed television events of the
year; it is also the day, according to women's shelters, when calls
for help increase by as much as 40%.

Your broadcast of the Super Bowl will reach a huge audience.  By your
airing PSAs, NBC will be bringing to a national audience the critical
and important issue of domestic violence.

Sincerely,

To reach NBC by FAX:  212-664-5835.

   You can rephrase or rewrite this letter to your liking, but please
FAX or write them immediately.

   Thanks for helping - you may save someone's life, or skeletal
structure, or eyesight.

Jennifer    jrycenga@pomona.claremont.edu
-------


** lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Internet) Laurie.Mann (GEnie) **
******      And now for something completely different...     ******

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From: q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Women-Only / Men-Only Groups
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Cornell University
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:42:37 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
> I've heard so many men in my classes scream bloody murder over the
> Society for Women Engineers.  "Well, *I* couldn't make a Society for
> MALE Engineers."  No, you already have them.  They are called IBM,
> Rockwell, Northrup, Aerospace, Edison, et. al.  Women's groups are
> used for a specific purpose, trying to find our feet in a world not
> designed for us.

I don't doubt that many men have screamed, or at least muttered under
their breaths about Society for Women Engineers.

Curiously, the local chapter of Society of Women Engineers (SWE) has
in past years been pretty slack about the idea that their "specific
purpose" required a rigid "women-only" attitude.  One year they
elected a male president, and I heard that the other officers and
members (i think all women) were perfectly happy.  As far as I know
they don't put "all women welcome" on the bottem of their
campus-poster advertisments as most of the other equivalent
organizations do.

I even went to one of their more socially oriented meeting once, and
about 20-30% men showed up.  The membership has been all women just
about all the time, but the officers their said they didn't care
whether men came to the meetings or wanted to be dues paying members.
This may have changed since then.  Does anyone here know what SWE's
(national) membership rules are (past and/or present).  For all I know
this was a maverick chapter, so I hope someone in SWE will be able to
post the straight-scoop on this organization.

I really got the strong impression that the SWE chapter here did not
want to be stigmatized or characterized as a strict-women-only group
(in fact on officer at the meeting said this explicitly since a bunch
of men had shown up) It seemed that all the women members were
perfectly comfortable with the idea that they would carry on to serve
the interests of women engineers whether there were men around or not.
(I wonder if the group was dominated by non-feminists at the time ;-)
I haven't had any involement with SWE, but have had positive
impressions of them because of this; and also because they have a big
engineering quad-party for everyone once a year.

So, maybe it's possible that sometimes women's interests don't always
need a strictly women's only policy.  I do understand that any
organization runs the risk of being co-opted etc.  Depends on the
particular circumstances.

Steve Seidman


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From: sfjr@wam.umd.EDU (Steve Russell)
Subject: Re: Domestic Violence Action
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:40:46 GMT



In article <1jmhekINNiue@transfer.stratus.com> lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>This came to me via some folks at Digital (yes, there still are folks
>at Digital):
>-------
>Help convince NBC to put domestic violence awareness public service
>announcements on during the superbowl!  (talk about reaching a lot of
>your target audience...)

Michael Rivero writes:
>I get the impression from your post that the target audience is men.

	I read the same post.  The word "men" wasnt even mentioned.
	I'm tired of the same bias you discuss, but I didnt get the
	same impression you did from the artical.

and continues:
>The problem with that is that numerous studies, including those by
>Suzanne Steinmetz, chairwomen of sociology at Indinana University,
>show that women initiate domestic villence just as often as do men.

	I've read of these stats before and they do sound legitimate.
	I do think feminists exist some by their own intention, and
	some not that have been painting a poor caricature of men in
	general.

	However I think this is another issue.  I've read of this post
	football moodswing before.  I've seen others get pumped
        from various sporting events and do stupid things, esp after
        a few beers.  It is a problem.  I dont see a public service
	announcement in neutral language can harm anyone or anyone's
	image.  I doubt if it was done that NBC would employ a Pat
	Califia type for a 30 sec spot vituperating men as a whole.

	I think your stats, though apart from this issue are important
	and should be made widely known.
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Newsgroups: soc.feminism
From: Sandra Bender u <bend7366@mach1.wlu.ca>
Subject: Sex Tourism in Thailand
Organization: Trivializers R Us
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 02:17:44 GMT

I'm working on a research paper looking at the invisibilization of women
within the world economy. I'm trying to establish a case study on the sex
trade industry in south asia.. specifically Thailand and the Phillippines.
I'm at a lost.. Does anyone out there have access to some recent primary
research or studies that might be of some help.. or does anyone have
suggestions where I might look... other newsgroups. I'd appreciate any help or
suggestions. Thanks

sandra bender
bend7366@mach1.wlu.ca
(519) 886-0703
Waterloo, Ontario
CANADA




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From: uunet!infmx!hartman@ncar.ucar.EDU (Robert Hartman)
Subject: Signal to noise, and resolution of issues (was: on being offended)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Keywords: Pornography, conventions, courtesy, stereotypes
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:19:34 GMT

In article <1jkk22INNahq@access.usask.ca> bickis@skmath3.usask.ca ("M. Bickis") writes:
>There is a common strand going through many of the current threads
>which I want to bring up in the hopes that it might knock some of the
>discussions out of the endless circles that have been going on:
>
>The question is this: When is it ethical to persist in an activity
>which we know that others find offensive?  ...

[ much on-target discussion omitted for brevity ]

One of the things I really like about this newsgroup is that although
we seem to get mired in the same quandaries and cross-discussions
that come up in other groups, just when I begin to dispair of ever
reaching resolution, someone posts an article that summs things up
quite nicely.  This article of Mik's was a case in point.

I never see this happen on other "soc" newsgroups, and I really must
credit the feminist charter and the moderators for maintaining a
positive enough climate that people can actually think things through.

-r

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From: ndallen@r-node.pci.on.ca (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Lesbian Veterans to Lobby Congress After Wednesday Press Conference
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Echo Beach, Toronto
Date: 26 Jan 93 06:56:54 GMT

Here is a press release from the Human Rights Campaign Fund.

 Lesbian Veterans to Lobby Congress After Wednesday Press Conference
 To: Assignment Desk, Daybook Editor
 Contact: Kay Ostberg or Gregory King, 202-628-4160, both of
          the Human Rights Campaign Fund

   News Advisory:

   U.S. Rep. Patricia Schroeder (D-Colo.) and other women members of
Congress will join lesbian veterans and representatives of lesbian
and gay organizations and women's rights groups for a press
conference on Wednesday, Jan. 27, at 9:30 a.m. in Room 2216 of the
Rayburn House Office Building.
   The organizer of the event is the Human Rights Campaign Fund, the
nation's largest lesbian and gay political group.  The press
conference has been endorsed by the Military Freedom Project.
Speakers at the press conference will release a major statement of
support for President Clinton's decision to overturn the current ban
on lesbian and gay Americans from serving in the U.S. Armed Forces.
Following the press conference, lesbian veterans will lobby members
of Congress in support of ending the ban.

 -30-
--
Nigel Allen, Toronto, Ontario    ndallen@r-node.pci.on.ca

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From: tcarr@casbah.acns.nwu.EDU (Thomas Carr)
Subject: creative women over 50
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:44:32 GMT

A posting for my wife:

I'm putting together an article on creativity in women over 50 for a
magazine called The Creative Woman. (That's the topic of our first issue of
1993). Specifically, I'm interested in finding out whether there is any
psychological or sociological explanation behind the creative burst that
some women experience at this point in their lives.

I'd also like to find some historical examples of this to complement
profiles we're doing of women active today (e.g. Maggie Kuhn, Wendy
Wasserstine, Gwendolyn Brooks).

Of course, I'm on deadline (mid-Feb). Can anyone point me in the right
direction in terms of source materials -- studies, journal articles --
and/or experts to interview or consult with?

Please respond by email: tcarr@nwu.edu


Thanks.

Lisa Werner Carr

[A summary of the responses would be of interest, as well.  --CTM]


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From: rhb@world.std.COM (Robert H Brueckner)
Subject: Re: Institutional Re-Cognition of Gender-hood
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:56:08 GMT
	<C0zJCr.J1w@cs.mcgill.ca> <llrtv4INN18g@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>

In article <llrtv4INN18g@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> falk@peregrine.Sun.COM (Ed Falk) writes:

   In article <C0zJCr.J1w@cs.mcgill.ca> chuckies@cs.mcgill.ca (Charles J Savoie) writes:
   >
   >When it's celebrated in boys but not girls, it contributes
   >to women's oppression.  When it's celebrated in girls but not boys,
   >it contributes to women's oppression.  What then, must be done?

   And the answer is... (drumroll please)

	   Treat boys and girls equally.


Still, "equally" does not necessarily mean "identically." And I think
boys and girls should not be treated "identically," though I insist
they be treated equally, given the same opportunities for growth,
access to toys, etc. The most obvious manifestation of the need for
somewhat unidentical treatment comes in toilet training. But there are
others. Standing/sitting are not the only gender differences. I think
all parents who have tried to treat their children equally (and I know
plenty) are consistently amazed by how the girls opt for traditional
girl toys and the boys go for the cars and trains and what have you. I
have never permitted my boys to have toy guns or to know about guns or
see TV programs that show that kind of violence, yet somehow they have
learned about them and play-shoot with their fingers. I think the BEM
test is a lot of wishful thinking on the part of certain ideologues,
and will ultimately be proven not only false but inimical. It relies
more on a priori assumption than empirical proof. We have all heard of
cases of boys who have been raised as girls until they were five or
six, who then rejected that stereotyping and became normal men.

In sum, I believe gender differences are not only real but valuable.
True, they should not be the catalyst for discrimination or unequal
treatment.  But they do exist, however much some people would like to
wish them away. The fact that something can be used for ill does not
mean it should be eliminated. I am sure that the Internet is used for
spying, transmission of child pornography, theft, and all kinds of bad
things.  But that does not mean it should be discarded.

RB
--
|"The truth is cruel, but it can be loved, and it makes free those who  |
| have loved it." -- George Santayana  // Opinions expressed here, when |
| clear and persuasive, are my own. --Rob Brueckner (rhb@world.std.com) |


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From: era@csn.org (Ed Arnold)
Subject: REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE
Keywords: Extremists, Christian Right, Amendment 2
Reply-To: era@csn.org (Ed Arnold)
Organization: Citizens Project; Colorado Springs, CO
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:15:12 GMT

We of the Citizens Project (Colorado Springs, CO) are looking for people
who could assist us in re-distributing the Citizens Project Newsletter
to non-Internet computer services.  If you have an account on any such
services (CompuServe, FidoNet, Genie, Prodigy, America Online, and others)
and are willing to help us, please let us know via return email to
era@ncar.ucar.edu.

The Citizens Project is a Colorado Springs, CO - based group of volunteers
who seek to prevent extremists from eliminating our fundamental freedoms,
in the face of growing political and religious intolerance in Colorado.



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From: thelma@csd4.csd.uwm.EDU (Thelma Lubkin)
Subject: Re: thinking that numbers are God(tm)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: 23 Jan 93 20:49:55 GMT

Steven L Harrington (sharring@cs.tamu.EDU) wrote:
: In article <1jmig5$ep4@agate.berkeley.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
: >
: >While it is true that numbers are valuable tools, this insistence on
: >some men on the net to not belive in ANYTHING unless it can be
: >numerically stated is really stupid.  You all remind me of carpenters
: >who have only one hammer and won't acknowledge the existence of
: >anything but nails.

: [deletia]

: I don't necessarily disagree w/ the anti-numbers and anti-science
: crowd completely, but I would just like to suggest that this thinking
: could possibly be counterproductive if too many folks buy into it too
: dogmatically.

: Further, in defense of science and math, I will ask the somewhat
: rhetorical question: What gave us airplanes, microwave ovens, tv's,
: computers, stereos, telephones, electric lights, heart bypass surgery,
: et. al. ???

      I think you misinterpret the lady: it is the true scientist, not
  the anti-scientific person, who goes beyond the mere collection of
  numbers; he (sorry, I still like the generic 'he') understands both
  their uses and misuses.

  --thelma
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From: michael@neuron6.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Michael Rivero)
Subject: Re: Domestic Violence Action
Organization: JPL Pasadena CA
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 01:55:49 GMT

In article <1jmhekINNiue@transfer.stratus.com> lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>This came to me via some folks at Digital (yes, there still are folks
>at Digital):
>
>-------
>Help convince NBC to put domestic violence awareness public service
>announcements on during the superbowl!  (talk about reaching a lot of
>your target audience...)
>


  I get the impression from your post that the target audience is men.
The problem with that is that numerous studies, including those by Suzanne
Steinmetz, chairwomen of sociology at Indinana University, show that
women initiate domestic villence just as often as do men.

  Frankly, your campeign seems to address only one side of the problem,
based solely on gender, and as such, I cannot support it. I have written
a letter to NBC including the studies on female domestic violence and
Berkeley Professor Neil Gilbert's studies showing that feminists promote
the male-only offender image of domestic violence for purely political reasons.
I also included the Statistical Abstracts of the United States that show women
as more than twice as likely to physically abuse their children as well as
the Canadian study that showed most children murdered by a parent as being
murdered by the mother.

  I have therefore asked NBC to refrain from running any domestic violence 
PSA's unless they can portray the problem as being one of equal balance
between the genders, and  not as the myth of offending males and innocent 
females.

  Those who truly want ALL domestic violence to end will agree that this is 
the fairest possible approach to the problem. Those who wish to continue
the propaganda campeigns and media male bash will, of course, disagree
vehemently with the above statements.


-- 
Michael Rivero michael%neuron6@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov


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From: quilty@philos.umass.EDU (Lulu of the lotus-eaters)
Subject: Re: Women-Only / Men-Only Groups
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:11:07 GMT
 <199301260026.AA03483@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <199301260026.AA03483@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>WOMEN ARE MEN ARE NOT EQUAL, THAT IS THE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF THIS
>NEWSGROUP.  Men's clubs are also things like the Senate and the House
>of Representatives, as well as every physics lab I've ever worked in.
>Women's clubs are things like my coven, and the group I wanted to go
>on a trip with (but ran out of the money for), and NOW, which used
>and still uses it's lobbying power to get me things that I need and
>am tired of pretty-please asking for.

NOW is not a "women-only" group.  (Nor do I think it should be).  The
congress is not a "men-only" group, though it could use a few fewer of
the "old-boys".  I think the discussion was not of groups which, for
whatever reason, tend to attract/allow a predominance of women/men,
but rather ones which *allow* only one gender.  The arguments just
devolve into ad hominem ranting when you elide this difference.  I
also think you've missed the point that the thread was about groups
which use public-facilities, such as university-campus seminar rooms.
Presumably your coven does not (if it does, I think it should obey
"sunshine" laws of your state).

>I'm sorry.  The women's groups ARE different, just as the NAACP is
>VERY different from the KKK.  I can tell the difference between the
>lynchers and the lynchees.  Black people HAVE been treated
>differently from white

NAACP is not a "blacks-only" group! That's part of the way it's
different from a mirror image of the KKK (which is whites-only, by
rule and design). I also think it's a bit misguided to compare
"men's-groups" to the KKK.  I'll certainly grant you that the whole
"men's movement" is a little kooky, and wrapped up in a lot of
psychobabble.  But I don't think they exactly sit around and
*advocate* rape, or make that a group fieldtrip, or anything like
that.  A criticism which actually had something to do with the nature
of the groups would be better on target.

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