From: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com (Bill McGarry)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Subject: Handicap Digest # 2591
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:38:36 GMT
Reply-To: Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
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                          THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                               Issue # 2591

                           Friday, April 17, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 560

                          New Braille computer dis
                          Electric cars and the bl
                                   movies
                           Ada And Money Printing
                                 AVOS, Inc.
                         Re: Exception dictionaries
                             Re: DOG GUIDE RULES
                             Re: DOG GUIDE RULES
                              JAILHOUSE BLINKS
                        Re: New Braille computer dis


                                ******


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Subject: New Braille computer dis
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi, John.

It sounds from your description that since dots represent pixels, your
display would be essentially a raised-line drawing and text would be in
raised print rather than Braille.  If my assumption is correct, I wonder
how useful such a system would be for many blind readers.  To be sure,
some graphics -- especially simple bar graphs or two-dimensional
diagrams -- might make sense.  However, screens get so cluttered that I
wonder how well the information would be conveyed, especially when one
considers that many blind persons are not comfortable reading raised
print.

In addition, how would attributes such as boldface, inverse video and
color be conveyed to the user?  Also, what, roughly, do you project the
cost of such a display to be?

Thanks in advance.

-Mike <K7UIJ>-
... * Artificial stupidity is easier to achieve than artificial intelligence. *
___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

--
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Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Electric cars and the bl
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi, Peter.

I'm a computer systems programmer for the Bonneville Power
Administration here in Vancouver, WA.  During the Carter administration,
there was a big push toward encouraging alternative energy sources and
BPA was no exception.  They went bonkers and bought several electric
cars.  From that experience, I must respectfully disagree with you.
They were *anything* *but* quiet.  One heard screaming transistorized
power supplies etc. as the driver stepped on the accelerator and one
heard beaucoup solenoids as one let off the "gas" and braked.
Light-rail cars are by far quieter than those electric cars were (they
weren't practical so with the coming of the Reagan administration they
were quietly dropped).  Light-rail cars aren't a problem; they announce
themselves and bong at every intersection.  Just my $0.02 worth.

BTW, those capacitive panels *sure* were a bloody nuisance, weren't
they?

-Mike <K7UIJ>-
... ** Programmers get overlaid! **
___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

--
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Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: movies
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi, Steve.

The best NTN movie I ever saw was the narrated version of "it's a
Wonderful Life" -- a masterful job.  I like Mr. Stovall's philosophy of
not describing everything to the point of gushiness -- saw an interview
with him in the Braille Forum a while back.  Stovall is the guy who
started NTN.  Anyway, wish I'd had a VCR tape handy so could've taped
it.

-Mike <K7UIJ>-
... *The National Federation of the Blind is changing what it means to be
 blind.*
___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

--
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Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Ada And Money Printing
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi, Darrell!

In my opinion, there aren't enough of us to make Brailling money
worthwhile.  IMHO the expense of retooling etc (assuming we could come
up with the technology) isn't worth it.  Electronics to identify bills
would, in the long run, be cheaper.  Besides, what's to prevent someone
putting extra Braille on the bills to make the denominations larger
<grin>?

-Mike <K7UIJ>-
... ** Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. **
___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

--
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Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: AVOS, Inc.
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hello, BlinkTalkers!

During the early to mid 1980's, when there were still CP/M computers
aplenty, a company named AVOS, Inc. manufactured computer systems with
speech-synthesis screen-reading access based upon CP/M machines --
first, the Osborne I and later the Telcon Zorba.  Out of curiosity, I'd
like to know if anyone out there -- whether due to necessity, as a hobby
(a la antique automobiles) or sheer cussedness -- is still using one of
these AVOS, INC. machines?  I have no doubt that the AVOS Blind Users
Group has long evaporated into oblivion (how's that for mixed
metaphors).  But if some out there are still using these machines -- the
Zorba, especially -- I have tons of good software (including versions of
comm programs Kermit and QTERM) that I'd be glad to share.  I'd also be
interested to find out (if there are other hackers out there besides
Howard Goldstein) whether anybody has gotten ZMP, the CP/M Zmodem
program, to work on the Zorba?  (Yes, I know, I know, the Zorba's BIOS
doesn't protect IX and IY registers over BIOS calls; I've modified mine
to solve that problem).  So, I'm assuming anybody that's got ZMP going
on the Zorba has also modified his/her BIOS to protect IX/IY since
Hi-Tech C assumes IX/IY are preserved.

Anyway, just curious (dunno whether yellow or blue).

Cheers!

-Mike <K7UIJ>-
... ** Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. **
___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

--
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Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Exception dictionaries
From: Mark.Senk@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Mark Senk)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I liked the way Artic 2.10 did it.  I never remember all the words
that were mispronounced after I get back to DOS.  I would like to
add dictionary entries on the fly.  I never used all the space that
was provided so multiple dictionaries would not be a priority.
Most of my entries were C language functions and variable names
such as sscanf strnicpy aptr iptr etc.  Maybe multiple dictionaries
would help those who perform different tasks.  I have heard Artic
say "f=e*g" as "f= for example" f=eg  and the Accent SA with IBM
screen reader say "ca=5" as "California = 5"

Autoloading, infinite size, and so forth would be nice, but being
able to redefine a word or character on the fly and save it for
later use is what I would be happy with.  Soft vert and Artic do
this pretty well.  I don't know about other programs.

I also want to let you know that changing - from dash to minus or
"silence" is also an important feature that is overlooked.  Vocal
Eyes does this, but it won't work with Artic 2.10.

                                Hope this helps,
                                Mark

--
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Internet: Mark.Senk@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: DOG GUIDE RULES
From: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:203/11 - The Broken Rose BBS, Sacramento CA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

well your tune will probably change after class but if it dosn't, a
big good luck!

it's very important with your first dog to learn the foundations
of  training and to stick with it.  it's like learning an
instrument, if you teach yourself, most likely you'll pick up bad
habbits so seriously as a veteran guide dog user on my 4th pooch,
please understand that the experience which will be imparted to you
is based on seeing eye's combined years of experience.  look at it
this way, if you fudge on obedience in the beginning, what else
will you fudge on so what happens, an do i know this, is that the
dog becomes sloppy and you become a sloppy dog handler.

i am not saying obedience is necessary every day for the full life
of the dog but for the first year or 2 and especially if this is
your first dog, it's very important.

one thing i used to do is to not expect my dog to take me to the
corner down curb thinking i go a certain way every day and i am
just turning left anyway but what happens is when you wish to
eventually go to that down curb, the dog won't!!  that's one
example on fudging on the basics.

just some free advice and hope i don't sound condasending or
lecturing but i know you've haven't had a guide dog before so
really, soak in the info you get at the eye.

say hi to them for me btw.  great bunch of folks there... dan
i feel more like now than i did a while ago

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!11!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: DOG GUIDE RULES
From: Bill.Reif@f12.n233.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Reif)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:233/12 - The Temples of Syri, Springfield IL


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

     In a message of <3-26-92>, to Legal Eagle, (actually Bill Reif as
explained elsewhere) Dan Kysor writes: Dan

DK> i am sure there are some like yourself who feel obedience
DK> is unnecessary but most the major guide dog schools insist
DK> upon obedience and for good reason.
DK> if your dog feels it's punishment, its the way your your
DK> conducting obedience. obedience should be positive and
DK> relaxing but re enforcing the idea that "your" in command.
DK> of course, i am not one to do obedience with my dog
DK> everyday but about 3 or 4 times per week but i don't buy no
DK> obedience and i believe your school holds to this as well.

     I believe that my dog had some bad experience or associations with
obedience training prior to my receiving him from the school.  My message
did not state that obedience training is not necessary; and I did
everything humanly possible to keep it relaxed, and to praise him for a
job well-done.  I'm not sure whether he thought he was being punished
unfairly or merely resented the fact that I, and not his trainer, was
administering the training.  He would sit, lie down, or come immediately
on command as though my words activated an electronic switch; but he
would initiate some act of aggression or defiance upon conclusion of the
training.  The discipline certain to follow his snatching my cassette
envelope or grabbing my arm would evoke anger or fear; and another
attempt at obedience would produce the same.  I found I could perform
obedience exercises by changing the order in which they were performed,
performing them without the leash on, or doing something he would not
associate with the regimented exercise.  (I eventually moved back to the
structured exercises without this response.)  My dog also accepted
necessary corrections on rout cheerfully, happy to correct his mistake
and never challenging my authority to have disciplined.

     My purpose in bringing all this up was not to challenge the
legitimacy of obedience training.  My purpose in discussing this is to
demonstrate the necessity to evaluate the effects of what you're doing
with your dog and to combine your own training with understanding and
flexability.

___
 X BABBLE v1.0 X Nothing is so sniple that it can't get screwed up.

--
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Internet: Bill.Reif@f12.n233.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: JAILHOUSE BLINKS
From: Bill.Burgess@hnews.fidonet.org (Bill Burgess)
Organization: The Handicap News, Shelton CT (203) 337-1607


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Yes Paul, a blind lookout man.  This man was stationed outside the
nursing home that was being robbed while the sighted went inside and
stripped valuables from both the office and the rooms of the sleeping
residents.  He had a scanner and was monitoring the police bands, along
with a two way radio to alert his buddies.  It turned out that this was
an inside job, the woman at the office that night being in on it.  All
were apprehended, and the blink got one year for his part in the crime,
he being about 20 years of age.  The judge clearly stated that there is
to be no leniency for him, and that he is just as deserving of
punishment as the rest and cannot use his blindness for leniency.  TTYL
Bill

 * SLMR 2.1a * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!

--
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Internet: Bill.Burgess@hnews.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: New Braille computer dis
From: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 MF> It sounds from your description that since dots represent
 MF> pixels, your display would be essentially a raised-line drawing
 MF> and text would be in raised print rather than Braille.  If my
 MF> assumption is correct, I wonder how useful such a system would
 MF> be for many blind readers.

Mike,
    AHA, a realist!

     Yes, I too wondered how realistic a proposition this was!
     For lack of a better anology, I have to aliken this to my
experience with people trying to read dymo-print labels.  Yes, I've met
blind people that seem to be able to read these things, but not only are
they a rare bird, they can hardly be seen as being able to translate the
information at a rate that is usable by most of our standards!

     For what it's worth, I share your doubts that a raised pixels
display of a computer screen could be of much value, and frankly,
although I am sure that the braille displays now offered are far from
perfect, they must offer a much more realistic alternative!  Although I
am far from a fair subject to use in an experiment, a tactile display of
a computer screen would need to be so large before I could gain valuable
information from it, it would be virtually unusable, and even if such a
thing were presented to me, how practicle would it be as compared to a
braille display of the same screen?

     Call me a pessimist if you wish, but I honestly believe that
tactile representation of a computer screen, particularly at the pixel
level, would be meaningless or at least practically unusable by a blind
person.  If this wern't the case, I'd be able to read the labels made by
a normal dymo-tape machine, and I wouldn't have to use that darn braille
label maker ever again!
                                                        Willie

... If you're looking for blind people you came to the right place!

--
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Internet: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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                                ******

             End of Issue # 2591 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU