HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scoggin@opus.ee.udel.edu (John K Scoggin)
Subject: Re: Inappropriate responses to job posting
Organization: Delmarva Power & Light Company
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 14:43:00 GMT

In article <BzH0z0.1op@tss.com> burke@tss.com (Jim Burke) writes:
>I'd like to make a simple observation regarding some responses I have 
>received to a job posting I made a while back.  I indicated that my company
>desires to hire a senior technical writer, and I gave a fair description
>of the background the person should have.  I also indicated that resumes
>could be sent to me, or to our HR person.  I received resumes from
>students who anticipate graduating soon and were seeking positions as
>software engineers, a resume from a non-US resident who asked if my company
>would like to sponsor him for a work visa (he was a software engineer),
>and various other responses.  
>
>I don't know about other managers, but I don't like receiving this kind
>of reply.  It leaves me with a less-than-favorable impression of the 
>person.  If someone wants to inquire about other possible openings, then
>it's appropriate to drop someone a quick e-mail inquiring about other
>positions.  But it reflects poorly on a person to say "I am writing in 
>response to your recent job
>posting" when you have absolutely no qualifications that make you 
>appropriate for the position mentioned.
>
>I just wanted to mention this to others who blindly reply to any and 
>all job postings.  You would probably do better to send an informal 
>query about other positions rather than sending your resume for a 
>position you are not qualified for.
>

Here, Here.  I had exactly the same experience.  I posted an electronic
tech job to the net as an experiment in cooperation with our Human Resources
Department.  Result - never, never again will I do this!  We were absolutely
inundated with responses, the vast majority of which were off-base.

We're going back to using the local and regional classified ads - we have
less chaff to sort through...

	- John

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
John K. Scoggin, Jr.			Email:   scoggin@udel.edu
Supervisor, Network Operations			 scoggin@delmarva.com
Delmarva Power & Light Co.		Voice:	 302-451-5200
P.O. Box 6066				Fax:	 302-451-5321
Newark, DE 19714-6066
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your milage may vary.  Void where prohibited by law (or common sense).
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: jql@synopsys.Synopsys.COM (Julie Lewis)
Subject: Re: The best degree ?
Organization: Synopsys Inc., Mountain View, CA 94043
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:48:26 GMT

Personally, I think you are asking the wrong questions.

What would you rather do for a living?  Write software or
design computers?  (Although in my experience the 2 are
merging rapidly.)

Don't base your decision on short term goals.  Think about 
what you want to be doing 5 years from now and follow the
course of action that makes the most sense in that context.

You might also want to check with your placement office for some
stats on hiring preferences and starting salaries.

Finally, you might want to seriously consider finishing your degree
and then taking some time off.  College tuitions are skyrocketing
everywhere and I don't see the trend reversing itself.

Just my opinions, you *did* ask.
-- 
Julie Lewis                                    jql@synopsys.com
"What did I expect to find behind a door that's been sealed for
three centuries?  Monty Hall?"  --Erica Kane, locked in a crypt
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: How to answer salary questions (was Re: Advice...resume)
Date: 14 Dec 1992 19:02:27 GMT
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Distribution: na
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: alhambra.pa.dec.com

|> Furthermore, how do you know how high the potential employer is
|> willing to go, and how do you square years of student poverty with the
|> chance to grab some cash?

I assume that you're asking how a recent grad should negotiate salaries.
This depends on the company and the field.  Most large companies, especially
in professional fields, give all entry level hires about the same salary.
Exceptional ones will get a little more.  Negotiating probably won't get you
much, if anything.  If you're talking to a small company or one that doesn't
hire many people in your field, try to get some info on salary ranges for
your field.  Your college placement office should be able to help you.  You
might also try talking to larger companies first and seeing what they offer
you.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:8211 alt.grad-student.tenured:71
From: pmmuggli@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (pauline muggli)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,alt.grad-student.tenured
Subject: Re: Faculty underclass
Date: 11 Dec 92 15:20:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: constell.Bz3p9H.Dou
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, Univ. of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Originator: mdtll@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu


  bell@cs.tamu.edu (Will Bell) writes:
>  pvuyyur@eng.clemson.edu writes:
  
>>Let me enlighten Mr. Canright on this issue. All the universities put out in 
>>BOLD letters that they are an equal opportunity universities and do not 
>>discriminate on the basis of race, nationality .....(the list is endless).
>>Then they admit a large number of the so called cheap labor and sprinkle a few
>>assistatships here and there. The American Grads and their European 
>>counterparts >>are then given fellowships and all the well paying 
>>assistantships. They actually 

hmmm.  we may have had one european grad student and i'm not
sure about that.  now that i think about it, we had 2 greek
students one was a TA, the other wasn't.  no other europeans
that i was aware of unless they were grad students who were not
around a lot, in which case, they weren't appointed for anything.
 
>That over with, I want to say I am really sorry that you are apparently
>being "discriminated" against at your school.  Let me stress that you
>should NOT generalize this to all schools.  Here we have a large number
>of foreign grad students.  Most of the TA positions go to these students
>because they have the highest GPAs (or so I've been told).  I fully believe
>that few, if any, schools behave as you describe -- that is, they hand out 
>a few "token" assistantships to the foreign students.  

true in my department.  the majority of graduate students were
international, many were TAs.
 
>Foreign students have the same chances as anyone else.  I suspect that
>many do not have an opportunity to do all the legwork (running around
>campus, visiting profs, having lunch, etc) associated with getting an
>assistantship, because they often arrive in the US only weeks before
>the semester starts.  Not our fault.

there was a rule in our department about international students
not being appointed for their first semester - unless they had
been undergrads here.  this is to give the professors a chance
to interview them.  it is also easier for a professor to pick up
the phone and call illinois from oklahoma to find out about my
under graduate days, than to call india, iraq or greece - all of
where we had graduate students who were TAs.  they also have more 
information about undergraduate programs at a particular
institution here in the states.

the ONLY assistanceships that i know were restricted in any way,
were ones that required usa citizenship.  i worked on a couple
of research projects at a defense contractor.

pauline
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: timhu@ico.isc.com (Timothy Hu)
Subject: Re: Companies ack of receipt of resume...
Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Boulder CO
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:26:41 GMT

An acknowledgement means that they're telling you that they got your
application/resume -- that's about it. This may mean: 1. They are
considering your application/resume, 2. They have filed it for an
opening that is coming up soon and will call you before too long, or
3. The acknoledgement you got was just an F.O. letter.

Don't get your hopes up. This stuff happens all the time.
From: 13501PCM@MSU
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Personal Consulting question
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:33:13 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

I wanted to find out if anyone has done any basic personal consulting for an
individual.  What would be the "going rate" for personal consulting.  It would
include usig software like WordPerfect, Lotus, Word, Excel, and other Windows
based software.  Basically geared to a first time user who wants to realize his
/her computer in the office or home.  If you know of what would be a good rate
to charge please email me at:

13501pcm@msu.edu
mccartyp@student.msu.edu

Thanks!

-Pat
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: esther@verdix.com (Esther Lumsdon)
Subject: Re: Advice from a hiring manager on resumes
Keywords: Advice
Organization: Verdix Corp
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:21:12 GMT

carole@rembrandt.Sun.COM (Carole Parker) writes:

>In article <1992Nov20.224949.7360@netcom.com> afisher@netcom.com (Alan Fisher) writes:
>>(This was originally posted on misc.jobs.offered, but I hear this is the
>>right bboard for this one.  With minor modifications to my original
>>post in [square brackets] -- based on the ton of replies I received, 
>>here it is again on this bboard)
>>
>>(This advice is my opinion.  Other managers may look at it differently.)
>>
>As someone who has been involved in personnel, I have seen *lots* of resumes.

>>I have seen hundreds of resumes in the past few months and can't believe how
>>poor the resumes look like. 

>This guy is *not* exaggerating, folks.  Thoughts to keep in mind about resumes:

>    Resume means summary, not life history.  It's okay to be general about
>    jobs you had ten years ago.  Be specific about the last job you had, though.

   [  deleted text  ]
>        The fact that you have "excellent" health.  Everyone is assumed to
>        have excellent health because no one will put that they have poor
>        health.  If you have a disability that everyone can see, you should
>        mention it.
   [  deleted text  ]

I don't think I agree with Carole Parker's statement here.  I am not
in the position of "having a disability that everyone can see", so
perhaps I do not understand the issues here.  Can anyone state what
agencies who train and place disabled people in jobs recommend?
-- 
-- Esther Lumsdon, not speaking for Verdix.   esther@verdix.com
Q: How many user support people does it take to change a light bulb?
A: We have an exact copy of the light bulb here and it seems to be
   working fine.  Can you tell me what kind of system you have?  
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: frank@rover.uchicago.edu (Frank - Hardware Hacker - Borger)
Subject: Re: The question of Experience
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: college job hiring
Reply-To: frank@rover.uchicago.edu
Organization: Joint Center for Radiation Therapy
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:32:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.061132.16653@mondy.uucp>, mdm@mondy.uucp (Michael Mondy) writes...
>In article <1992Dec12.230549.27566@netcom.com> pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard ) writes:
>>john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes:
>>>College is a game.  You might know this stuff, but a college degree is
>>>proof that you have the ability to learn under pressure and stick with
>>>a job for 4 years until it is complete.  
>...
>When you hire someone you want to know (among other things):
>   Can he/she do the job?
>   Will he/she do the job?

	Much more simply put, when you get to college you are presented with
	situations where you are not spoon-fed information, but YOU must
	set your own study schedule, keep to it etc. In short, you are taught
	the basics of scientific investigation. A degree indicates that you
	have the mental fortitude to work things out BY YOURSELF.

	A high school graduate, (meaning one who has not attended any college,)
	will often say, "I never had that happen before, I didn't know what to
	do..." but a person with at least some college, (maybe 2 years,) will
	(IMHO) be more likely to say "That was a new one on me, but I figured
	it out..."

	Before the flames start, let me say that I don't think it's really
	taught that well in college, rather that the person that is better at
	that kind of problem solving generally either gets a degree, or at
	least tries a couple of years of college before burning out.

   Frank R. Borger - Physicist    __       Internet:  Frank@rover.uchicago.edu
Michael Reese - Univ. of Chicago |___      Phone : 312-791-8075 fax : 567-7455
  Center for Radiation Therapy   | |_) _   
                                   | \|_)  The covers of this book are too far
    "Birthplace of Softball"          |_)  apart. Book review by Ambrose Bierce
From: oleary@staff.tc.umn.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Advice from a hiring manager on resume
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:11:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.1992Dec16.171134.6068
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <15DEC199212170590@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov> stocker@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (ERICH FRANZ STOCKER) writes:

>I have to say that the attitude you express would have precluded you from
>any further interview when I was hiring as a project manager.  When
>an interviewee holds diatribes the person is not one that fits into a
>team environment.  When a person is non-responsive or evasive to employment
>questions, then he/she will be equally non-responsive or evasive in
>a team.

Were you always as responsive and honest when you were hiring?  If I'm
pressed for a dollar amount, I usually say, "Tell me how much you have
budgeted for the position."  (Afterall, what I would like for a salary is
irrelevant if it isn't within their budget.)  Care to wager how many
interviewers have given me that figure?

>Knowing what is reasonable to expect as a salary is an important part of
>the interview and job-hunting process.  Every business must stay competitive
>and in the software business this is especially true.  If business started
>playing NBA games with salaries they would very quickly lose contracts or
>customers.  Generally, national, regional, and local salary surveys exist
>for different positions and experience levels in a field (I know for
>a fact they exist for programming and general business).  When I studied an
>employment form before an interview, I always checked these surveys to
>see the expected salary ranges.  I then looked over an individual's
>experience, education, and job progression and compared that with the
>listed expected salary.  I generally expected an expectation that was somewhat
>over the survey ranges but not greatly over.  Generally, when it was greatly
>over, the individual didn't show understanding of their profession and its
>growth patterns.  Often, the individual showed an overestimation of their
>own self-importance.

But did you ever come out and say, "Given your experience, education, and
job progression, your starting salary with our company will probably be in
the $xx,xxx-xx,xxx range.  Is this an acceptable figure?"  Only one 
company I've ever interviewed with has done this and they did it when they
called to set up the interview.


+------------------->  Signature Block : Version 3.C  <---------------------+
|                                                                           |
|    "Nothing astonishes men so much as common-sense and plain dealing."    |
|                                            --- Ralph Waldo Emerson        |
|                                                                           |
+---------------->   Copyright (c) 1992 by Doc O'Leary   <------------------+
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: paulc@askinc.ASK.COM (Paul Connor)
Subject: Robert Quinn Associates 
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: 12 Dec 92 03:51:06 GMT

Has any one out there had any experience with Robert Quinn
Associates?  This organization is based in the S.F. Bay
area I believe.

Any experiences that anyone out there has had with them
would be greatly appreciated (good or bad).  If you e-mail
me, I will post a summary afterwards.

thanks,

paulc@askinc.ask.com
From: merkur@modul.bioch.nsk.su (Igor Merkuryev)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Consulting available in Russia
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 16:28:40 +0600
Distribution: world
Organization: Institute of Bioorganic Chemistry SD AS USSR
Reply-To: merkur@modul.bioch.nsk.su


                             Gentlemen!
      Group of programmers based on PC-286 looking for consulting  in
    the USA.We living and working in Akademgorodok(near Novosibirsk),
    science center  of  Siberia  and  able  in  resolution  different
    science problems.We   would  like  to ask anybody to give us free
    order at first,so we mean we can't present resumes acceptable for
    american employers.We   hope that employer to whom we'll send our
    versions will   be   interest   to   select   people   for   next
    job.Please,contact with Igor Merkuryev:

    merkur@modul.bioch.nsk.su
                                        Sincerely,Igor.
From: millere@egr.msu.edu (Eric Miller)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Self contracting consultants
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:13:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Michigan State University, College of Engineering

I am currently completing the requirements for a Masters and looking
for work, my field of expertise in the area of Facilities Management
where I have been appplying CAD to corporate and institutional space
planning. I have also been doing research in the role that ergonomics
has in office design. Like many Michiganders, my job search is
taking me contract places that often hire Facilities people to
work in planning and design. The trouble with this approach is that
many of the contract places seem to lack the expertise to do their
job in placing people. (This is just an opinion). I am sure that
this idea has occurred to many people, but I would like to know
netter's opinions and experiences on the following: 

	How practical is it for a group of advanced degreed students
	with some job experience (like myself) to start their own
	contract placement firm in order to manage their job
	placements?

After getting on the phone with some of these people, I realized that
many of them advertized themselves as technical job placement firms
that in reality were made up of nothing more than career headhunters/
personnel types. I know a statement like this can cause some flack.
I'm wondering if any technical/computer types have ever elimainated
the middleman and gotten around would I think is quite a bottle
neck in today's tight Michigan job market.

Thanks
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Subject: Re: The question of Experience
Organization: Data Parallel Systems, Inc
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:45:06 GMT

In <1gtl3rINNelg@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> reidyj@mundania.CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy) writes:

>  Paper is more inportant in many areas than experience.  We are so degree
>  oriented we are missing out on a lot of talented people who started in this
>  software game before a lot of us were born.  You may have heard of some of
>  them... Turing (math), Wozniak(no degree), the head of MIcrosoft(again, no
>  degree)... the list goes on and on.

Paper is more important for people who've invested in it than experience.
Paper is no promise of performance though.  If you want to measure performance
by $$$ earned (I don't) then ANY degree is a lost cause.  The richest man
in the U.S. has no degree, virtually all of the richest people in Europe
have no degree.

Steve Jobs has no degree...etc.

College is fine, if you're lazy and like two week vacations.

greg, a real college grad.

--
Gregory Reed Travis				D  P  S  I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated   greg@dpsi.com (For MX mailers only!)
Bloomington, IN			     greg@indiana.edu (For the others)
From: tmchugh@ms20.tmc.edu (Tom McHugh)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: test
Date: 14 Dec 92 02:11:19 GMT
Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL

hi netters!

please ignore this, it is only a test!
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter)
Subject: What are some good reference books for a new manager/project leader ?
Organization: Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:19:35 GMT

What are some good reference books for a new project leader/manager ?
I'm particularily interested in good interviewing techniques, etc.

Though by the time I see any responses to this article, it will be too
late, I'll have already helped interview someone. But I want to prepare
for the next time I'm asked to do this.

Please send responses via email; I don't normally read this group.
If anyone else is interested in the same information I'll post
a summary to this newsgroup in a few weeks time.

	Advance Thanx,
	fred
-- 
Disclaimer: everything I write is my *personal* opinion and does not represent
or reflect the opinion of the company which employs me.
From: keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Controversial organizations? (Re: Advice from a hiring manager on resumes
Keywords: Advice
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:52:47 GMT
Organization: California-Nevada Methodist Homes

In article <1992Dec10.170752.23595@bradley.bradley.edu> dave@bradley.bradley.edu (David Vessell) writes:
>>    Don't put anything non-essential or that can be discriminatory on your
>>    resume.  This includes:
>'Organizations and Awards':
>	National Eagle Scout Association
>	Mensa
>	National Merit Scholar, XX/XX (date).
>experience.  I'm interested in how these could be interpreted as
>controversial.  

Let me tell you, David.  First of all, since the scouts have reiterated
their ban on Gays being in the Scouts, if your potential employer
was gay, or a gay sympathizer, he/she would be offended at your
membership in such an association.  
Secondly, being a member of Mensa is a blatant negative for those
who don't know you, because everyone will think you are a "smartass".
A potential employer will not want to hire anyone who he thinks may
be smarter than he is.
Thirdly, by also including academic recognition such as National
Merit Scholar, you are reiterating the fact that you are a "brain"
and that you are probably smarter than the one who is interviewing
you.  
	Definitely lose these from your resume.
--Keith

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc