HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:42:21 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, scott@prodplan.Columbia.NCR.COM (Scott Bridges) writes:

>My point is that irresponsibility is not limited to jet-skiers.  I have been
>buzzed by bassboaters, waterskiers, and every other type of go-fast boat.
>Believe it or not, I have even encountered one or two inconsiderate
>sailors :).

Whoa, we're not going to rehash the America's Cup "bad boys" thread again,
are we?  (heh, heh)

Agreed, Scott.  My neighbor a couple doors down lost her 25 year old
son-in-law in a Donzi accident.  (Hit flotsam tooling 65 at night.
Three others badly hurt, one a paraplegic.)  But it's amazing to me
how many (or so it seems) accidents occur where the victim is
"clotheslined".  We see skiers and boats under tow all the time, yet
for some reason *seeing* this condition eludes many boaters.

I've towed and been towed on several occasions and I *always* tie several
rags, life jackets or whatever may be handy into points along the towline.
Remember the boat Ryan O'Neal's son was driving a few summers back?
The movie director's son (can't recall the name) was clotheslined.  Killed
instantly.  Was at night so maybe it wouldn't have made a difference.
But it couldn't have hurt either.

I've even seen a person injured in a boat that was idling past some slips
where there were lines strung between the pilings to assist tying up.
Stupid?  Yes.  Avoidable?  Perhaps, with some safety flags rigged.

>Scott "where's a good death-ray when you need one" Bridges

-- Bob (ducking)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 18:11:06 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.cs.brown.edu

In article <1k63c8INN8fp@calvin.NYU.EDU> roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners) writes:
>> God *knows* what I would have done with a tiller pointing aft!  :-)
>
>Don't ice boats have aft-pointing tillers?
>-- 
>Roy Smith <roy@nyu.edu>
>Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202
>NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
>"This never happened to Bart Simpson."



Yes. At least the DN does. And you move the end of the tiller to port
when you want to turn the bow to starboard. (As I did yesterday, at last!
Fairly clear, moderately solid ice, with at least a little wind!).

Of course, some of the older iceboats were stern-steerers (steering blade
at the aft end), and had normal tillers. 

And some current boats have wheels, with cable-systems to link them to the
steering blade. One guy I met had rigged a wheel with the polarity swapped, so
to speak, and when he turned the wheel clockwise, the boat would turn to port.
He actually liked it that way, until, after a day of iceboating, he got in
his car and nearly killed himself. Then he switched it. 

-John
From: paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Liveaboard rent question
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:04:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

>Well, I'll horseshit your bullshit.  For many of us, it *is* a question of
>economics.  I can plan to buy either a boat or a house in about 3 years, and
>the other one several years after that, or longer if the economy gets worse.
>Given a choice between sailing now and sailing when I'm 40 if I'm lucky, I will
>sail now.  

Well, I'll batshit your horseshit.  You are talking about buying both
and about which one you want first and which one you can do without
for awhile.

>I don't think the original poster (I forget her name) was arguing that a boat
>is much cheaper than a house, but rather that a boat is an option on a budget.
>If you want to afford the boat you live on it.
>

Having gotten further email from the original poster I assure
you that the argument was indeed that living on a boat is much
cheaper than living in a house and the folks that are living
on boats are doing so because they can't afford the house,
boat or no boat.

>Karina

rickf

From: Dan.Hannah@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Dan Hannah)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Give me some Ideas!
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:27:00 -0800


 On 01-23-93 ROBERT PARKINSON wrote to ALL...

 RP> owner. Thaedra, I believe, is the greek goddess of costly
 RP> engine repairs. My next boat may be named 'Dagny Taggert' with
 RP> 'Jim' painted on the dinghy.

This idea is so great I think I'll go out today and rename my boat "Dagny".
Maybe not, I don't want to do all the explaining!

Thanks for the chuckle...

Dan Hannah   Puyallup, WA

... OFFLINE 1.42 * --------------------------------------------------------
.........................


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: vatne@alcatel.no (Lars Vatne)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Organization: Alcatel STK A/S
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 10:12:22 GMT

In article <93025.25145.L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>, L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
|> 
|>   Just to add to the amusement of this thread -- I have no strong
|> feelings regarding tiller vs wheel - I've used both. Someday I'd
|> like to try steering a Viking type vessel, a side mounted steering
|> oar. Sort of a sideways tiller.  Facing forward, the steersman
|> has to push to turn to port, pull for starboard.  Worked for them.

And. as y'all know, the steering oar used by the vikings was called
"styri", and was the origin of "starboard" (or "styrbord" in Norwegian). 
The oar is of course mounted on starboard, check out the vikingships in
Bygdoy, Oslo, Norway the next time you're around, and we can go for a 
sail afterwards (my boat's just five minutes down the road from there).
-- 
Lars Vatne                     Phone  : +47 22 63 76 51    
Engineering Division           Fax    : +47 22 63 84 97  
Alcatel Telecom Norway AS      e-mail : lars.vatne@alcatel.no
From: brucem@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com (Bruce Maxwell)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Looking for Soveign 28
Keywords: Sailboat Soveign owners
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:19:24 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Computer ,Oceanport NJ




	Hi,

	I am looking for owners of Soveign 28 sailboats...
	I own one and wish to contact other owners to 
	compare notes..
	Thanks,

	
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: bentson@CS.ColoState.EDU (Randolph Bentson)
Subject: Re: Full Batten Main - Problem
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:34:06 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <20015@mindlink.bc.ca> Bill_Gardner@mindlink.bc.ca
(Bill Gardner) writes:
>I want to install Lazy Jacks to assist with dropping the sail
>but first need to solve the sticky problem of the main battens
>binding as the sail is raised or lowered.

I saw something that may be a good alternate to lazy jacks.  Does
anyone know of the operation of the Dutchman Sail Flaking System?
It's from Martinus Van Breems, Inc., 571 Riverside Avenue, Westport,
CT 06880, (203)454-0222.

-- 
    Randolph Bentson                 Colorado State University
    bentson@CS.ColoState.Edu         Computer Science Department
    303/491-5792                     Ft. Collins, CO 80523
	  Finger for PGP public key
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Newsgroups: rec.boats

Let's split it.

I'm into powerboating and not in to sailing.  I've noticed that few 
articles in this notes group pertain to power boats lately and I have
to wade through the majority of the articles that I am not interested in
in order to read threads on power boats.  If the group was split, I could
do it programmatically.


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:19:26 GMT

In <C1F2sr.Lo3@panix.com> spencer@panix.com (David Spencer) writes:

>In one of the America's Cup series in the '60's or '70's, one of the
>boats had a tiller. Its helmsman (I forget the boat and the helmsman)
>was a one-design sailor who couldn't get the hang of a wheel.

The boat was the 12 mR Sverige and the helmsman was Pelle Pettersson.
Pella has sailed all sorts of boats, is one of Sweden's most well known
racing sailors (and boat designers). He has been helming several plus 50
feet off shore ravers (with wheel), so the reason for adapting tiller
was not inability or inexperience with wheel, but the belief that the
tiller gave you better control of the boat. 

The boat hadactually double tillers, one for the actual rudder and one 
for the keelhung trim tab. 

>A tiller gives a lot more immediate, sensitive and (IMO) logical
>tactile feedback.  For example, if you actually have to hold onto the
>extension (as opposed to cradling it loosely) in any Bruce
>Kirby-designed boat, it's time to hike like hell or spill wind. And
>feedback across a flat plane or along a straight line (the extension)
>is a lot easier for me to read than feedback around the perimeter of a
>circle.

You are absolutely right on this point. 

>Of course, it's hard for me to think about a boat that you sail
>standing up ...

>dhs   spencer@panix.com

- Lauri Tarkkonen
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift)
Subject: Re: FL Keys trip Ideas?
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:55:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.222438.16506@linus.mitre.org> abm@mbunix.mitre.org (Murphy) writes:
>
>I'm planning a trip to the keys for this February school vaction.  We have ten days with the boat from Miami.  
>...
>Inside versus outside?

I've done both, but not by choice!  From Miami to St.
Petersburg, we tried to go inside (I assume you mean
on the Florida Bay side) with a six foot draft.  We
got almost all the way to Marathon before running
into water too shallow.  We even waited a day to find
the lowest tide, before having to go all the way back
around the north end of Key Largo.  I shouldn't imagine
that you'd have any problem with a 27' trimaran though.
With shallow water that is.

Mosquitoes are another story.  Make sure you have all
ports and hatched screened!  (And you certainly will
want to open them at night.)  Probably a lot of people
don't realize the Everglades boundary line includes
almost all of Florida Bay, and often just skirts the
keys.

Going down the keys on the outside (it's called Hawk
Channel, but it's really just coastal waters with
occasional reefs here and there) is pleasant and offers
the best snorkeling.

>Snorkelling places?

You must see at least some of the major reefs in John
Pennekamp park off Key Largo, before they disappear
under the pollution assault from the north.  My personal
favorite is French Reef, but many others have great
snorkeling and diving.

Larry Swift                     larry@pdn.paradyne.com
AT&T Paradyne, LG-132           Phone: (813) 530-8605
8545 - 126th Avenue, North
Largo, FL, 34649-2826           She's old and she's creaky, but she holds!

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: wwalker@qualcomm.com (Bill Walker)
Subject: Re: split rec.boats??
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:34:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.165905.1@hamp.hampshire.edu>,
ibromberg@hamp.hampshire.edu wrote:
> 
> As mentioned in an earlier reply to the post about splitting the newsgroup,
> all boaters share the water, but those of us interested in sail boats may have
> different goals and perspectives than those interested in power boats. I would
> vote to split the group as a mere convenience. I am interested in sail boats. 
> If I was interested in power boats, or other means of waterborne
> transportation, and a separate newsgroup existed, I could find topics of 
> interest in that newsgroup without having to wade through posts that I didn't 
> care for. Simply, I say split.
> 
> 					A snobby sailor.
> 					Isaac Bromberg 

I think the fact that we do have different goals and perspectives is
perhaps one of the reasons the group should NOT be split.  Here, power
boaters and sailors (and even jet skiers) have a chance, if they take it,
to learn how the other half thinks.  We have a chance to learn why those
people in that other boat are shaking their fists at us when we do
something we consider perfectly reasonable.  And there's also a lot of
stuff in common that can be shared (anchoring, navigation, electronics,
electrical systems, etc.).

And if we do split, well, lemme see, I want to subscribe to
rec.boats.sail.cruising, rec.boats.sail.daysailing, rec.boats.sail.racing,
rec.boats.power.small, and rec.boats.power.big (maybe), but I'll skip
rec.boats.power.fishing, rec.boats.power.pwc,
rec.boats.power.tankers.aground, rec.boats.user-fee, and probably
rec.boats.sail.want-to-crew.  :-)

Oops.  I forgot about rec.boats.sail.ice (just for you, John) and
rec.boats.sail.c27 (for Wayne). :-)

----------
Bill Walker - WWalker@qualcomm.com - QUALCOMM, Inc., San Diego, CA
All opinions expressed are mine, and do not reflect those of my employer.
"First thing we do, we kill all the lawyers." - Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: Bill_Gardner@mindlink.bc.ca (Bill Gardner)
Subject: Full Batten Main - Problem
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 04:41:14 GMT

I have a C&C 30 1987 with a full Batten Main.  The sail works terrifically
when underway.  Getting it up and down is not so good.  I want to install
Lazy Jacks to assist with dropping the sail but first need to solve the
sticky problem of the main battens binding as the sail is raised or lowered.

I have seem Battcars advertised to solve this problem, but they are very
pricy for a main sail of this size.  The current attachments to the main sail
track just seem to bind from the pressure of the battens.  Anyone had any
experience with a similar problem and know of cheaper solution than Battcars.
I intend to discuss with Sail Maker at our Boat Show in Vancouver in
February.  The main sail is a North.

-=*Bill*=--=*Bill*=-
From: torsten@unisql.UUCP (Torsten Weirich)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Jet Skis (now sailboards)
Date: 28 Jan 93 14:11:22 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <4040@wyse.wyse.com> jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497) writes:



   I have to take exception to the comments about sailboards. I am not disputing
   that a sailboarder can not be annoying to other water users. However, if someone
   comes flying by you and jumps your wake on a sailboard, it is not because
   his buddy has loaned out his sailboard with the words 'Try this, its fun!'.
   Sailboarders take years of dedicated practice and effort to get to the skill]
   level wher they can terrorize other water users, so however annoying they may be,
   they are not incompetent to operate their craft.

   A beginner is more likely to be struggling in the water or slowly making his way
   downwing at 5 mph.

   Unfortunaely with jet skis, you really can just hop on and go. This is the reason
   they apear so inconsiderate. Its mostly lack of experience and real understanding
   of boating and seamanship skills. (maybe that should read seapersonship :-))

So I guess this makes it ok;-)  Next time I'm out in my ski boat or on my Jet Ski
(both of which I have been riding for several years) I'll be sure to tell
myself that it's ok to put myself and others at risk because I know I have
enough experience;-)  

Give me a break!  Yeah I ride a Jet Ski, but I also stay away from other boats
because I have this incredible fear of being run over by someone who doesn't
see me.  I drive my boat the same way.  If I owned a sail boat (which I hope
to soon), I'd do the same thing.  Even if I know I have the right of way
and could press the issue, I usually opt for avoiding close quarters because
it interferes with my enjoyment of boating.  I think if everyone thought about
how their actions might appear to others out on the water there would be
fewer incidents.  I don't care what you drive...there is simply no excuse
for lack of consideration for others!

End of sermon.

Torsten Weirich

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| UniSQL                      Cursed by a fortune cookie:       |
| 9380 Research Blvd.         "Your principles mean more to you |
| Kaleido II, Ste. 200         than any money or success."      |
| Austin, TX 78759               ^                              |
| Tel: (512) 343-7297            |                              |
| Fax: (512) 343-7383            +-the story of my life... ;-(  |
| Email: unisql!weirich@cs.utexas.edu                           |
| Disclaimer:  something about "plausible deniability"...       |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 11:27:22 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.cs.brown.edu

In article <1993Jan26.011509.18537@adobe.com> baffico@adobe.com(Tom Baffico) writes:
>In article <C1F2sr.Lo3@panix.com> spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)  
>writes:
>> [america's sup baot had tiller once]
>> 
>Pelle Petersen, from Sweden, Paul Cayard's father-in-law. It's not so much  
>that he couldn't get the hang of it, it's just that in his mind "real  
>boats" have tillers. I agree.

In fact, I think that all wheel-steered boats should have a tiller. I have
one on Sarah, and fortunately the wheel is far enough fwd in the cockpit that
it can actually be used. The kind of emergency tiller that you have to 
rig "sideways" to make it avoid the wheel is just loony (and probably
unsafe). Incidentally, I do use the tiller now and then, even when the
wheel steering is working. In very light airs, it's a little easier to handle
the boat with the tiller than the wheel. Besides, it makes me check out one
more piece of emergency eqpt. at least once a year, which is a Good Thing.
Imagine the annoyance if I found that the damned bolt ofr the emergency
tiller was rusted in place at some critical moment :-(. 

-John
From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:53:53 GMT
Subject: Re: JETSKI GROUP
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

In rec.boats, jbarnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (R. Jim Barnes) writes:

    Is there a jetski notes group out there or are people just placing them in  
    rec.boats?

I couldn't find one.  The only rec.j*** was about juggling.  If you
cannot find one, you can try posting here, but I doubt you'll get too
much response from other jet skiers.  Most people who post here sail;
there are some power boaters and now and again a bass fisherman or
two.  We seem to be a pretty tolerant bunch here and put up with all
kinds of subjects (not like r.b.paddle, where the kayakers and rowers
hate each other and take every opportunity to tell everyone so).  

Anyway, be my guest, post away--you might get lucky.
B.S!
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 18:51:52 GMT

Wayne Simpson writes:
>  I agree with Jeff regarding the now ubiquitous wheel steering. A 27
>  foot boat simply doesn't need it and I don't understand why so many people
>  want them.

It's easy to understand once you actually try steering a boat with a
tiller. Although it's hard to believe, for some idiotic reason the
tiller and the boat actually move in opposite directions; in other
words, if you push the tiller to the left, the boat turns to the
right, or, to put it yet another way, if you point the tiller towards
the place you wish to go to, the boat moves in the OPPOSITE direction!
This unnatural scheme requires considerable mental and physical
coordination, and many people (understandably) never get the hang
of it. You don't see too many tillers on powerboats, do you? In
my experience, sailing is complicated enough as it is. If someone
were to invent a simple mechanism that would reverse the effect of the
tiller upon the rudder, I might be tempted to use it. Until then,
give me a wheel anytime.

Stefan

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: meyer@dbsun.uucp (Don Meyer)
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Organization: BioMerieux-Vitek, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:46:43 GMT

In article <50700076@hpscit.sc.hp.com> spikes@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Bill Spikes) writes:
>Due to divorce, I went from owning an 18 foot runabout, family boat,
>to a 550 jetski a some years ago. I had more near misses and problems
>with other boaters with the boat than the jetski. The jetski is not
>what is causing problems out there, it is the nut riding it.

Nice to hear the other side...

>The jet skier, being a lot more responsive, SHOULD also be paying a lot
>more attention to what is going on around him than the usual power/sail
>boater. It is like riding motorcycles, with your bod hangin' out there,
>you had better be REAL aware of what is happening close by.

Yes!  If I'm on a PWC, or a bicycle, or on foot, I tend to give
all those things that are less manuverable, as well as able to squish
me like a bug, plenty of attention as well as the right of way.

>So, it isn't the type of craft, it is the driver. I think the same thing
>on the way to work EVERY morning!!!

Amen to that.

>(I wanna try one of those 750 Kawasaki's!)

The sit-down 750SS is quite nice.

Don


-- 
" 'Cause you see son, it's one of my responsibilities as a parent to wean
you from life's joy and prepare you for the relentless heartache that is
adulthood." -- Earl Sinclair to Robbie
    =========================================================
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1993 21:50:22 EST
From: <IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Give me some Ideas!

Hello to all of you! - I would like some suggestions for the
naming of my 23 foot Grady-White Gulfstream... I'm really having
a tough time coming up with anything completley new and nautical!
So anything goes!!!!!!

Thanks a lot! (The winner gets $65!)

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: hobart@estdsun4.nrl.navy.mil (Karl Hobart)
Subject: Sail Questions for Catalina 22
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory (Electronics Science and Technology Division)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:53:36 GMT

Sail questions for Catalina 22 buffs (and inquiring minds):

I am considering buying new sails for my Catalina 22. 
Background: I race my boat with a low-keyed club and do quite well
(even against Cat-22's) with my blown out sails (light winds and a very
clean bottom help). I would like a new set of sails since my boat is in
otherwise great condition.

1) Are there sources of decent "used" sails, ie sails that racers use for
a season or two and want to discard. I already have *used* sails. 

2) I have been looking at various new sails from sail makers that advertise
in "Mainsheet" (the composite Catalina owners assc. mag).  I tend to respect
the claims of the various vendors, North($$$), Hild($$), Ulman($), concerning
the race records of their sails, since if there claims were bogus they would
quickly be snuffed by the mag. I have talked to a few folks locally about
sail makers and each has one who "I must call." But I feel that I would benefit
from lofts that make a lot of Cat 22 sails and have optimized the them.  
From prices alone I am  inclined to purchase a main from Ulman 
(~$560, peanuts, eh?) and possibly a mylar genny ($663). Hild Sails has a decent
discount for Catalina boats (thanks to Wayne Simpson) but Ulman is still
lower and boasts a better record. If anyone has direct experience with these
or other sails for Catalinas (22's preferably) I would appreciate there input.


One last thing, would the addition of the mylar genny or longer battens (not
full) change my PHRF rating (currently 270)?

Karl Hobart
hobart@estd.nrl.navy.mil
202-404-8542