From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Who Gets Stomped
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 23:50:58 GMT


In article <1992Oct11.220321.16904@wam.umd.edu>
lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:

>I have trouble believing that White Liberal Guilt exist en
>masse.  I think that's the key to the problem.

You mean the key to the problem is you have trouble
believing it exists, or do you mean what gives you trouble
is that it exists?  I'm confused here.  I think it exists.
How widely is another matter, but I think it's not at all
uncommon in middle-class white America.  Of course, neither
is virulent racism or violent homophobia, and from your
account in response to Steve, you're getting both at once,
which can hardly be a joyful thing to go through.

>Gimme what?  Tell me, Jess, what am I asking for?

I think you were guilt-tripping these people here, in a
generally kind of omni-directional rage that flailed away at
pretty worthless, mostly innocent targets like "elitism" and
"icons" and so forth.  I don't know why, for sure, but my
operating assumption is that not only are you mad, you are
also hurt, and you would like some sign that these people
here would like to help, at least to lessen the hurt, since
you know full well that we cannot make the problem go away.

What I tried to point out, perhaps not very adroitly, is
that a lot of us here -- the overwhelming majority of us
here -- know a thing or two about that hurt, because
whatever the differences -- historically they are vast --
the similarities between racism and homophobia acquaint us
quite fully with the hurt as well as with the rage.


>I didn't see anything regarding that here.  Two Gays killed
>by a Molotov cocktail.  The Black lesbian took care of the
>White Gay man, who was mentally disabled.  It was a very sad
>story.  And I did not get it from here ...

By "here" do you mean soc.motss or College Park?  There
were dozens of articles here on soc.motss.

>Yes, I'm young and alive now.  Can't you see, that makes it
>even more depressing and more frustrating!  

Yes, I can see that.  But you have to *live* and living
means (I think) seeing beyond that.

>You know what I
>want?  I want to be treated equally in this country where I
>was born!

Why shouldn't you want that?  Of course you want that.
You have every right in the world to it, and you live in a
country that quarantees it.  Then doesn't deliver.

But listen, Donald.  LGB people, these people here, we're
not saints.  About the same fraction of us as in the non-LGB
society are Republicans.  About the same fraction are
racists.  About the same fraction are not so rich (a couple
outright poor).  So maybe a slightly smaller fraction
are Republicans or racists, but this place is no more the
last bastion of freedom than College Park is.

And don't completely discount the possible advantages -- I
think there are some -- in your situation.  Despite the
difficulties you may face, you *are* here, and that is not
just nothing at all, as I said in other postings today.

But I think a majority, a large majority, of LGB people
know, and I mean know deeply, down in their bones, what
inequality is, because of the homophobia that engulfs and
seeks every day to minimize what we are, to discount us as
human beings, to take away the limited rights and
prerogatives we have, and so forth.  Not all of these people
will make common cause with you, but some of them will.
Gary Klein just said he fervently wants to.

>This country that MY ancestors were forced to build for
>nothing!  Knowing that I will never have that basic right
>infuriates me especially when I see White kids continue to
>dine off the fruits of that labor while not giving a flying
>fuck whose back was broken to provide that comfort.

It's all true, of course, or close enough, anyway.  But it
leaves us with the question of what to do about it, doesn't
it?  If you let it destroy you, they win.  That's what they
want.  DOn't help them get it, especially not by dwelling on
the depressing facts of history.  Dwell instead on the
glorious facts of history.  You're young, (I assume) strong
(since you keep talking about beating people), and alive.
Don't throw that away.  And I say this because ...


>>Get help.  Please get professional help.  Don't let
>>it ruin you, as indeed ..

>Why?  It seems that I was doomed to ruin before I was even
>born!

...  I really think you could.  Throw it away, I mean.
Donald, the bottom line is this: you got a bad depression
going there for yourself.  Don't, please don't tell yourself
this "doomed to ruin" shit.  That only drags you down, and
you really do have enough problems already.  You know very
well that 30% of young gay people attempt suicide, and you
know very well that some fraction of young black people
attempt suicide, and you've got a double dose.  So you have
to work extra hard to keep yourself out of that kind of
swamp.  You know what I'm saying: 30% of *these* people know
first-hand about this.

But depression *must* have (I think) a professional
intervention.  Don't put it off, and don't try to make like
it's nothing or not so bad.  The evidence of today alone,
not to mention other days, suggests it's bad enough.
Promise me you will do something about this, and please
realize that these people out here are not *able* to do what
needs to be done.

>That depends on the situation.  What do you have to worry
>about if noone is bothering you?  

Excuse me, Donald, people *are* bothering me.  You don't
have a corner on the bigotry or the grief; there's plenty to
go around.

>To the Average White Man, just my
>presence is enough for him not to feel safe.  That's just
>one out of many reasons there are a disproportionate amount
>of Black men in jails now.  To help White men feel safe
>enough ...

Absolutely right.  25%, I saw on TV last night.  But ...

>>If you don't it's gonna be you gets stomped, and that is not
>>a good thing.  Be mad as hell, if you want, but don't be a
>>fool!

>I have my back-ups.  I have not gone crazy.  I'm just
>tolerating less and less bullshit from people who don't give
>a shit anyway.  I've been bashed all my life.  Now, it's
>time for the payback ...

Payback takes a lot of different forms, wouldn't you say?
Don't feed on that hatred.  Feed instead on your own
capacity for love, first and foremost of yourself, but also
of the better side of your fellow humans.  You can never,
especially not by yourself, fix all of the problems.  But
you *can* avoid letting the bigots win by taking you down to
the level where you know they are.  And bashing does that.

Well, that uses me up, for now.  I have no more to offer,
other than hope and the too-obvious best wishes.

<> The time is always right to do what is right.
<> -- Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
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