HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: niemi@astroatc.uucp (Bob Niemi)
Subject: When is Minneapolis Boat Show?
Organization: Astronautics Technology Cntr, Madison, WI
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:45:14 GMT

Thought we might take a ride to the Twin Cities--the Milwaukee Boat
Shows have gotten to be SSDD, and the Madison shows are just awful.

One would think the show promoters would spend a little time in
thought about what attractions (MOB demos/tapes, basic sailing
theory, high speed propellor selection considerations seminar,
power boat racing seminar, new sail rigging information (I think
more technological improvements have accrued to sailing than
power boating in the last decade), etc.) would bring 'em in.
The list is off the top of the head-------real creativity 
should be brought to bear.

In fact, one would think boat purveyors would try to outdo one
another to make their display/organization/perception-of-technical
-competence stand out....but they don't. They walk around, hand
out brochures, glad hand, "How you doin..?? Can I interest you
in this number? No, I don't know what it draws, but it is red...",
and hope to open their order book.

So may I step down from the soapbox to finally inquire if
anyone can fill me in on the Twin Cities boat shows date/time/place?

Thanks.

Bob Niemi, Astronautics, Madison, WI   ...uwvax!astroatc!niemi
About 8-9 weeks to open water, pier reinstall early April, launch
early May.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Subject: Re: Liveaboard rent question
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 04:27:35 GMT

>   >The irony is that
>   >people don't usually liveaboard because they're rich boat owners.  It's
>   >usually because they can't afford to buy a house.
>
>   Presuming we're talking about North America here, I have to
>   respond "oh bullshit".  People around here live aboard because
>   they like it.
>
>   -rickf

I have to agree fully!  I love living aboard and do so because I enjoy it.
I will be the first to admit that I could not afford BOTH a large sailboat
and a house, having to choose one or the other I choose the sailboat.


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil



Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: lwall@netlabs.com (Larry Wall)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats
Organization: NetLabs, Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:13:13 GMT

In article <MBR.93Jan24100900@ponape.bellcore.com> mbr@bellcore.com (Mark Rosenstein) writes:
: Oh yes. About this bad idea of splitting up rec.boats, I point out this quote:
: "Unison is only one form of harmony." 
:     attributed to LW

The attribution is correct, but I feel I should add in the obvious
counterpoint:  You can't harmonize with someone you can't hear.  :-)

[Incidentally, I have no opinion whatsoever about splitting rec.boats...]

Larry Wall
lwall@netlabs.com
From: kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:14:41 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: questor.sw.stratus.com

>
>Scott, If you add pontoon boats and sailboards you would be duplicating
>my list.  It's the people -- not the toys!  There are plenty of safe
>drag-boat, bassboat, jet-ski, etc., etc., operators out there, but it
>only takes one yaa-hoo to spoil a nice day for dozens of people.
>

One real big problem with these kind of stuff (jet-skis, sailboards,
etc) is that people lend one to a friend at the beach or where-ever
and say "Try this, it's cool."  The person then using the craft likely
has no knowledge of boat operation, right-of-way rules, what to do if
you break down/become fatiqued, etc.  This situation has potential for
disaster.  Would you give your car to someone who has never driven and
let them have a go because you think they are smart enough to get it
right on the first try without adequate instruction?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Maybe he's just a little insane, like painters or composers."
							-Miracle on 34th Street
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:31:53 GMT

I agree, we all share the water, we should be able to share a newsgroup...

A couple of my most interesting memories of sailing this summer

1) 40knts of wind 7 foot + waves, running downwind surfing my 35' 18,000
   cruising sailboat, it is raining like hell and can barely see anything,
   out of nowhere comes this pink sail, right across by bow, piledrives the
   thing into the next wave some 30 yds to stbd.  A couple of min later
   he comes screaming back astern of me.  Really wild

2) Swinging on the hook in a semi-exposed harbor, three jet-skis come
   screaming by.  One astern, two off the bow.  I guess they were not used
   to 300 foot of chain, one cut my bow pretty tight and nearly got pulled
   off the ski!  Thought I was going to have to rescue him...  

We all share the water.  We can share the enjoyment here...


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
From: afrey@rodan.UU.NET (Allan Frey)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Charter from JetSea?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 16:05:10 -0500
Organization: UUNET Communications
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

I'm looking for opinions on a charter company in the Caribbean
named JetSea, Inc.  I'm thinking of chartering from them in 
Guadeloupe.  Please let me know what you thing of them.  You can 
reach me at afrey@uunet.uu.net.  Thank you.

Allan

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant)
Subject: Re: Manifestly Unsafe Voyage
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 04:15:26 GMT

From article <1993Jan28.233749.13185@unlv.edu>, by sails@howlin.cs.unlv.edu (Jeff Fine):
> ....
>   .... a man .... wanted to sail his home-built boat across the Pacific ...
> A reporter .... was invited down to the dock to get the story ....
> The interview and the boat disturbed the reporter.....
> he casually mentioned that the CG might want to keep an eye on this guy ....
> .... the CG didn't wait until morning....
> .... they issued an MUV (Manifestly Unsafe Voyage) citation....
> 
> 1)  In that the Coast Guard has the job of rescuing any vessel in distress, do they have the moral jurisdiction to determine who gets to go out in the ocean and who doesn't?

Absolutely.  As a taxpayer, I don't want some damn fool endangering the
lives of public servants, not to mention the money they waste.

> 2)  Does a knowlegable boater have any moral authority or obligation to stand in the way of a voyage that appears to be suicidal, due to ignorance?

Absolutely.  If I were enough of a damn fool to go innocently out on a
voyage I'm not likely to come back from, I ought to thank anyone who
tells me not to.  I have, in fact, gone out on voyages I shouldn't
have, but I was lucky enough to come back.

> There are other questions, but you get the idea.  Was the reporter right or wrong in effectively stopping Joe?  What do you think.

The reporter was absolutely right ... you get the idea, I hope -
absolutely?

							Marty
marty@hoqaa.att.com		hoqaa!marty
Martin B. Brilliant		(Winnertech Corporation)	
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: finns@hal.nta.no (Finn Stafsnes FBA)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats
Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 14:57:57 GMT

In article <1jsgbqINN592@morrow.stanford.edu>, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
|> ... but are there not boats
|> where the wheel turns agianst the direction? Wasn't this the "old-
|> fashioned" way? 

I have not seen boats with the wheel turning the wrong way, yet.

In some old sailing ships the wheel was mounted almost directly on the
rudder post. Only a 90 degree gear between (worm gear?). When the rudder
was at the transom there was only the rail between the wheel and the water.

Except in a flat calm, when he could sit on the rail, the helmsman had to 
stand in front or to the side of the wheel. I have seen some pictures with
the helmsman standing in front of the wheel, facing forward.

An other option, which I have used in several small open launches, 
is a wheel mounted on starboard side in the middle of the boat with the axis
square to the fore-and-aft line. Pulling the top of the wheel backwards made
the boats turn to starboard.


Finn
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: walter@watson.ibm.com (Walter Wilson)
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:23:15 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

I vote no split, for all the good reasons the other "no" voters had -
there's too much in common.

-- 

  Walter G. Wilson  (walter@watson.ibm.com)
  The opinions expressed here are my own.

  "My plans for the year all laid out...
   Ah... A dream in Springtime "
     -- Shodo (Go Seigen)
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:50:57 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, tomw@megatek.com (Tom Wright) writes:
>Should any of you boaters get interested in jet skis (buy, one-time rental,
>or whatever), do *not* be fooled into thinking that they might be safe for
>sub-teenage children to operate.
>My good friend's 10 year old sun was *killed* on one in the quiet waters of
>Mission Bay, San Diego.
>The only positive thing to come from this tragic death was an improvement
>in how our bay was segragated according to use. (The boy's neck was broken
>by a ski rope. He lived about 24 hours. If your local waters allow jet ski-ers
>and and water shi-ers anywhere near each other, a horrible death is easily
	 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>achieved.)

I emphatically agree.  I resisted the urge to reply to an earlier poster
who had (somewhat gleefully) attested to how the ability of a jet ski
to "turn on a dime" was scary [was that the word?] to the helmsmen of
"larger boats".  Thought I would cool down.  Now we hear this!  Horrible!

Last summer I saw much the same thing-- right in front of my home.  We
spend quite a number of hours at home relaxing and watching the "goings
on" on our creek, a two mile by 1/4 mile inlet from the Chesapeake.
Perfect for water skiing.  (The skiers have set up a first-class slalom
course about 400 yds away-- wife hates it, I enjoy... typical.)  Also
*perfect* for jet skis!  There's regular concentrated traffic running up
and down the creek, creating wakes for the little bastards to leap.

Only a matter of time.  Jet ski driver saw a boat over his shoulder
passing him and executes his "turn on a dime"... right into the path
of a young girl sking behind the boat.  She hit the jet ski directly
broadside and was thrown well into the air by the impact.  Needless to
say, she was injured quite severely and taken to the hospital.  Didn't
hear the outcome.

Don't think there's much hope of controling this situation, just
continuing to remind people to be careful and don't do those neatsy
keen manuveurs on jet skis near other boats.  You want wakes to jump?
Go out on the Bay in Force Fives.  But *STAY AWAY FROM OTHER BOATS*.

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
From: mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Split rec.boats??
Date: 22 Jan 1993 15:02:27 -0500
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc., Vienna, VA.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gilligan.east.sun.com

I know this has been hashed over at least once prior, but
in light of the recent post someone made referring a person
who asked about jet skis to rec.annoying.irritating.ought.
to.be.shot, I thought that this newsgroup really needs to
be split.

That way, sailboat people can talk about sailboat things,
powerboat people can talk about powerboat things, and
people with personal watercraft can talk about personal
watercraft things. All without the benefit of someone
harassing them for their choice of boat type.

One of the reasons for not splitting I saw before was that
some people have an interest in both power and sailboating,
but that's why newsreaders support multiple groups.

What do the rest of you think?

-- Mike

------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions - not my employer's
From: dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Boat Show
Date: 28 Jan 1993 00:50:42 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: treefort.corp.sun.com

In article 11437@cbnewsj.cb.att.com, legacy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (wayne.m.simpson) writes:
> In article <106693@netnews.upenn.edu> karina@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Karina Haavik) writes:
> >Speaking of dubious sailboat designs, amateur sailors, etc., here's my favorite
> >quote from the Philly boat show:
> >
> >Man looking at Catalina 30: 'I don't like this one as much.  It doesn't have
> >                             a microwave.'
> 
>    He must have just come from the Hunter display. Microwaves and Video
> Casette Players are standard (no kidding).

I don't suppose the microwaves are gimbaled.

Dudley
.
From: matts@thesun.EBay.Sun.COM (Matt Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
Date: 22 Jan 1993 23:55:51 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: matts@thesun.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: thesun.ebay.sun.com

I agree that we should not split the newsgroup,
I am currently a power boat owner, but I also sail.
I find it interesting to read about both types of boating.
There is not enough traffic on this newsgroup to justify a split anyway.

MS

		      __/___		| Matt Smith    Sun MicroSystems
	        _____/______|		| Internet:     matt.smith@EBay.Sun.COM
	_______/_____\_______\_____
	\ 		          |  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a 
soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."
From: tdsmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Timothy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: slow speed marine diesel
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:34:18 GMT
Reply-To: tdsmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Timothy Smith)
Distribution: na
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.boats, enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) writes:

...  Does this mean that you can reduce the minimum
>speed of an engine simply by putting on a large flywheel?

    Yes and no. The extra mass would allow you to set the idle speed
lower. BUT, the main bearings, which are probably journal bearings* which
will have metal to metal contact at slow speeds; i.e. your engine will 
self-destruct in a hurry.  Don't do it unless you are designing an engine 
from scratch to run at slow speeds.

Tim Smith

* Journal bearings rely on a dynamic pressure wedge of oil to keep the
metal bits apart. Without shaft speed the wedge cannot form properly.
Factoid - this is why most engine wear is on startup - the oil pressure
feed to the journal bearings is insuficient.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: keithg@kronos.com (Keith Gattozzi)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Marine Stereo and Speakers
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:47:59 GMT
Organization: Kronos Inc. / Waltham, MA
Disclaimer: This posting is a personal opinion and not that of Kronos Inc.


	
I am looking to purchase a marine stereo and speakers and am in need
of recommendations. I looked into the Bose 101 speaker series but they can't 
be exposed to salt spray or fog. The speakers must be able to handle some 
light salt spray and salt fog. 
thanks
Keith

Please mail me a Kronos
From: cworth@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU (CHUCK WORTH)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Great American II, need info
Date: 28 Jan 93 15:13:56 GMT
Reply-To: cworth@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: oavax.csuchico.edu


  Great American II--a largish racing multihull--apparently set out from San
Francisco yesterday on a second attempt to beat Northern Lights 134 year old
West-to-East record.  This attempt is being monitored by school children all
over the U.S. (via satellite communications with the crew lessons will be
taught on geography, oceanography, weather, et c.)

  Does anyone know whether regular updates on GA II's progress are available
via the Internet?  Is there a teacher discussion group on the net?  Regular
reports are supposed to be filed in 20 or so major newspapers; can anyone
upload these?  *Any* info would be appreciated.

  Thanks from me & Mrs. Joiner's 4th grade class.
                                                       Chuck W.


**********************************************************
 Chuck Worth            California State University, Chico
 CWORTH@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: 23 Jan 93 23:44:20 GMT

Dennis Bartley <U13792@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:

>Actually, it's the person who made automobiles steer backwards that blew it.
>If he had made the rear wheels do the steering, we'de have no problems :-)

Why not put your rudder at the bow? :-)     Robert Enenkel

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ua087@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Peyerl Fritz)
Subject: Re: Searching for Hillerange stove parts / service
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:48:31 GMT



Hi Carl
There is a small shop in Vancouver BC Canada, they specialice in stove
repairs. Phone # Area Code 604 -270-9455 the store is Called
River Marine. They still have complete Alcohol Burners. I just 
bought some for my own Marine store. We still get the odd request
for alcohol burners.
Good luck.
Should you need any more info leave me a message on E-mail
Fritz
-- 
Don't worry be Happy
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift)
Subject:  VHF: ICOM 125 experience?
Summary: looking for info
Keywords:  VHF radios
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:04:23 GMT

Has anyone used the new ICOM 125 VHF and wish to share
any experiences with it?  I think I'm about to buy one,
but since it's a lot of $$ I want to be sure my eyes
are all the way open.

Larry Swift                     larry@pdn.paradyne.com
AT&T Paradyne, LG-132           Phone: (813) 530-8605
8545 - 126th Avenue, North
Largo, FL, 34649-2826           She's old and she's creaky, but she holds!
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Rhodes' Chesapeake 32'
Date: 27 Jan 1993 13:38:35 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.cs.brown.edu

In article <1993Jan27.125432.21797@clpd.kodak.com> tomb@atp.serum.kodak.com (Tom "USA" Bullinger (x37419)) writes:
:In article <1993Jan25.145826.19947@watson.ibm.com> walter@watson.ibm.com (Walter Wilson) writes:
:>Can anyone tell me ANYTHING about a 32' Chesapeake (Rhodes design)?
:
:Rhodes Chesapeak 32
:
:Designed by:  Phillip L. Rhodes
:Built by:     George Walton, Inc. (USA)
:Circa:        1961
: [good info deleted]
:
:The profile looks very similar to a Cape Dory 30'. The appears fairly
:standard: a V-berth for two in the bow, a hanging locker to starboard,
:and an enclosed head with sink to port. The main salon has berths on 
:either side, and a galley aft. The icebox appears to be on the starboard
:side with a sink and stove on port. She's seems to be equipped with a 
:tiller.

One more thing. In profile, she may look like a CD 30, but Alberg designed the
Cape Dory line in his later years, when he started making more effort to put
room inside the hull (consumer demand, y'know?). Rhodes tended to make
somewhat longer and slimmer boats, and the ones I've been aboard have nice
handling characteristics (although Wayne (I think) tells me that a Rhodes 
Swiftsure he sailed on had horrible weather helm). Lots depends on the builder,
but Rhodes also tended to make very solid designs. The Mercer 44 that my dad
used to have had a flush deck, and was stiff as could be at 20 years old. 

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:58:00 GMT

In article <1k6j7qINNgne@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:
 
>In article <1k63c8INN8fp@calvin.NYU.EDU> roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>>hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners) writes:
>>> God *knows* what I would have done with a tiller pointing aft!  :-)
>>
>>Don't ice boats have aft-pointing tillers?
>>--
>>Roy Smith <roy@nyu.edu>
>>Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202
>>NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
>>"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
>
>
>
>Yes. At least the DN does. And you move the end of the tiller to port
>when you want to turn the bow to starboard. (As I did yesterday, at last!
>Fairly clear, moderately solid ice, with at least a little wind!).
>
>Of course, some of the older iceboats were stern-steerers (steering blade
>at the aft end), and had normal tillers.
>
>And some current boats have wheels, with cable-systems to link them to the
>steering blade. One guy I met had rigged a wheel with the polarity swapped, so
>to speak, and when he turned the wheel clockwise, the boat would turn to port.
>He actually liked it that way, until, after a day of iceboating, he got in
>his car and nearly killed himself. Then he switched it.
>
My iceboats (home made) have seats that tilt side to side.  This
rotates a beam running to the front, where you find a skateboard
truck with two runners (about 8" apart).  It worked fine on the
two occasions I have been able to sail it so far in the last two
winters.  But boy do I get to laugh when some experienced
iceboater takes it out, leans as one skate comes off the ice,
and suddenly makes a sharp turn.  (We are talking 15 mph max
on the 1/8 mile long lake behind my house here...not 40, 60 or
100 mph as with DN's, the two-person Arrow (also with a back
pointing tiller) or something else that cost a lot more then
the $500 invested in all three of my boats...not counting the
standard windsurfing sails, masts and booms that I already had.)
 
..Richard E+17
From: mshulman@genghis.borland.com (Michael Shulman)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:31:12 GMT
Organization: Borland International

In article <MBR.93Jan24100900@ponape.bellcore.com> mbr@bellcore.com (Mark Rosenstein) writes:
>I think we were having bubble and squeak or some such delicacy.
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Mark.

Huh?

Want my vote? I like tillers because they're symmetrical. I like to drive 
from the hide side, and I steer by pulling or pushing. Pulling always 
steers away from the wind, regardless of what tack I'm on.

When running, when the main starts to collapse, I refill it by pointing
the tiller at the boom.

With a wheel, I have to translate everything into "right and left" and then
turn the wheel. Maybe with practice it'll get automatic, but we like a 
tiller on our Express 34 (hi BILL!).

-ms
Newsgroups: rec.boats