HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha)
Subject: Re: A victory?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:01:17 GMT

In article <Bw0x7F.n2y@apollo.hp.com> zl@apollo.hp.com writes:
>In article #1786 Mark A Libucha wrote:
>>        In the wake of the passage of the bill, many people here have used
>>the word "victory". As I see it, at this point it is only a victory for
>>perhaps 100,000 Chinese invividuals. Whether or not it is a victory for
>>China depends on what these people do in the future.
>>        And some seem to be confused about who the victory was won against.
>>The tone of many of the postings makes it seem like it was the American
>>legislative system that was beaten, like it was some game to get something
>>for nothing.
>>        Would the people who died at the Massacre call this a victory? They
>>set you free, and you waged your campaign on principles they died for. Has
>>the victory been realized? Is China any better off due to this new law?
>
>Mark, it's a victory, yes, it is. If you don't like it, too bad. This law
>enables thousands of _Chinese_ talents stay here permanently in this great
>country. Further more, they will be able to vote in a few years. They are
>smart. Surely some people don't want to see this happens. Too bad for them.

Personally, I think these new Chinese citizen will make a great contribution
to America, in many different ways. I welcome their expertise: it's just
what the U.S. needs. 

It's China I'm concerned about! 

>China definitely will be better off due to this new law. Don't believe it?
>Let's wait and see: china bashing will be reduced to near zero in a year,
>not even to mention longer term benefits. Ciao.

What? How? Why? What are you talking about? Whose bashing China? (Hope it's
not me :-)) How are you going to reduce it. What are the long term benefits
to China?
From: yu@bilbo.gra.vtt.fi (Xiaohan Yu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: China Bank
Date: 15 Oct 1992 09:11:15 GMT
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland
NNTP-Posting-Host: bilbo.gra.vtt.fi

In article <Bw2wxx.Ex1@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Chunde Shi <cshi@CS.ULOWELL.EDU> writes:
>It has little to do with "patriotism", kid, stopping generalization.
>one (some )incidents->Whole China Bank->Whole China are crooked.

Right!

Xref: sparky talk.politics.china:1983 soc.culture.china:28120
From: yding+@pitt.edu (Yijun Ding)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Prison Labor Central Part of the Economy?
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:58:12 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.china
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

There are several articles in U.S. News & World Report, Oct 19, 1992
which are interesting.  The following is from "Enter the Dragon - Its
economy booming, a confident China is beginning to assert itself":

"The Soviet Union, China's Communist nemesis, has collapsed. The United
States, the dominant power in the Pacific during the cold war, is
reducing its military forces in Asia and licking its wounds at home.
American slogs through a deep recession, and growth in Japan is slowing,
but China's economy is booming with a 7 percent growth rate last year.

Beijing is on the move diplomatically and militarily as well. China
established diplomatic relations with Israel earlier this year and with
South Korea in late August, and the West's post-Tiananmen cold shoulder
is a thing of the past.  Armed with new jet fighter from Russia and a
growing blue-water Navy, China is beginning to assert its claims to
sovereignty over disputed areas in the South and East China seas."

I kind of wonder, if they find relations between economy and prison
labor?

-- 
//Yijun Ding, Pittsburgh //Go your way, be happy.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 13 Oct 1992 01:03:20 CDT
From: <U52727@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: forwarded: Next Move for Group B?

In article <Bw14F4.Cso@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, JDW5139@TAMXRD.TAMU.EDU says:
>
>------------------------forwarded without comments-------------------------
>>>      For those came after 4/90, we'll all keep eyes open for them. Who
>>>knows what will happened in China in the next year.  The important thing is
>>       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>Here, your logic is very interesting to me. Do you expect that those came
>>after 4/90 can use another June 4th massacre as excuse to get green??
>
>        No, they don't need an excuse. USA is a country respects equal rights
>and freedom for all. If by next July, China is not safe for the group A, it
>will not be safe to the group B member also. Brothers sisters must help each
>other, they helped us on the protection bill, we should help them in the      .

According to your logic, Geoger Bush has done a stupid thing by seperating
Chinese students into group A & B, because it is totally unnecessary to do so.
I don't think the President of USA is a stupid guy.
>future

>More important, the group B should help themselves by organized action like
>the
>group A. Some people suggested we group A should contribute $10 each to IFCSS.
>Maybe IFCSS should also begin a donation account to collect donations from the
>group A to begin planning and doing a campaign to give them some protection.
>At
>least they can begin study the best stretagy for the "group B campaign": a    ,
>bill
>or a executive order? A low-key campaign, or a high-key campaign? Or else?
>
>        A CSS from group A
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: IFCSS HQ <ifcss@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      IFCSS HQ NR-4054:   Protection Bill Signed into Law
Reply-To: IFCSS HQ <ifcss@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:07:01 GMT
Comments: To: ccnl@utarlvm1.uta.edu, china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

**************************************************************
IFCSS Headquarters News Release No. 4054      October 9, 1992
                Protection Act Signed Into Law
**************************************************************
Independent Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars (IFCSS)
   733 15th Street, N.W., Suite 440, Washington, D.C.20005
         Tel. (202)347-0017  Fax: (202)347-0018
                Email: ifcss@wam.umd.edu


                 Protection Bill Signed Into Law
                 ===============================

     Five minutes ago, at 10:50 a.m. this morning, we learned
from Senator Gorton's office that the President had signed
S1216, the Chinese Student Protection Act. Then, we contacted
the White House and the news was confirmed.

     The HQ believes this victory is the result of the common efforts
of thousands of American friends as well as Chinese students and
scholars and wishes to thank all those who have worked hard in
the past week to promote the presidential signature.

     Please keep tunned for more information.


***************************************************************
         IFCSS Headquarters Office    Signature
***************************************************************
From: ping@summit.ATMOS.ColoState.Edu (Ping Ding)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: HQ NR-4057:  Implementation of S1216
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:44:49 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <Bw2wDu.E63@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ifcss@WAM.UMD.EDU (IFCSS  
HQ) writes:
> **************************************************************
> IFCSS Headquarters News RElease No. 4057      October 13, 1992
>            IMPUT NEEDED ON IMPLEMENTATION OF S1216
> **************************************************************
> Independent Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars (IFCSS)
>    733 15th Street, N.W., Suite 440, Washington, D.C.20005
>          Tel. (202)347-0017  Fax: (202)347-0018
>                 Email: ifcss@wam.umd.edu
> 
> 
>            Input Needed on Implementation of S1216
>            =======================================
> 
> . An example is
> spouses and children who arrived after April 11, 1990; we want to
> make sure that they will be covered. 

Does this mean that spouses and children who arrived after April 11, 1990
will be covered? I thought they are not covered. Anyway, IFCSS is really
doing something for our CSS now. I am concerning the donation plan.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: paulzhu@unc.edu (Paul Zhu)
Subject: Re: Shannon Yeh
Organization: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:00:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.191642.17678@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>In article <92286.143518LXH108@psuvm.psu.edu> <LXH108@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>> Just by curiosity, can somebody tell me WHAT is this guy?
> 
>
>Shannon Yeh is a crazy Maoist.
>
>Carl

Ditto.
-- 
Paul
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*  Internet: paulzhu@ruby.ils.unc.edu;  Bitnet: paulzhu@uncvx1.bitnet  *
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "IAAYROS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU(Iaayros C" <IAAYROS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Li Chen's suggestion
Reply-To: "IAAYROS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU(Iaayros C" <IAAYROS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 12:51:00 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt <china-nt@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>

Do you also consider a large scale lobby campaign asking a foreign country
to PROTECT CSS in that country is an interference of Chinese affair? And
thus also hurts the "image of chinese national as a whole"?

It looks like you consider IFCSS have not spoken for themselves so you
wishes IFCSS to "speak for yourself". Then, whom you think IFCSS have been
spoken for? International hostile forces? American an/or Taiwan hostile
forces?

Kevin

===============================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 01:09:56 PDT
From: lic@PHYSICS.USC.EDU (Li Chen)
Subject: suggestions on donation to IFCSS

......

Finally, I would like to make another comment on CMFN bill.

......

The CMFN bill also hurts the feeling between peopleof both country. The
IFCSS's constant asking of a foreign country to interfere Chinese affair
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
also hurts the image of Chinese national as a whole.
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
......

As a summary, IFCSS is losing political fortune for their standing on
the CMFN issue. Recently, the drastic reduction of financial support from
American and Taiwanese source is one of such signal (See the IFCSS request
for CSS financial support). I wish you all adjust to
the ever changing world based on a pragmatic approach and speak for youself.
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
end/
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: HEW@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA
Subject:      HELP!
Reply-To: HEW@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:24:00 GMT

COULD ANYONE HERE PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW TO SIGN OFF THIS NET?
THANKS
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: kxd5425@usl.edu (Du Kaisheng)
Subject: Re:      Re: China Bank
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 00:34:59 GMT


In article <Bw2v63.CC6@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> FUW@conan.ie.orst.edu writes:
>> Date:       Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:31:43 -0400
>> Reply-to:   Chunde Shi <cshi@CS.ULOWELL.EDU>
>> From:       Chunde Shi <cshi@CS.ULOWELL.EDU>
>> Subject:    China Bank
>> To:         Multiple recipients of list CHINA-NT <CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu>
>
>> Before You starting to trash the country, PRC which happened to my country,
>> make sure who, China Bank, or your master US' bank is lying. It only
>> reveals your slave metality that your jump gun that China Bank is lying.
>> Event China Bank is lying, is it China Bank policy to do the lying or
>> some crook in the Bank did it?
>
>
>
>I absolutely believe that China Bank was lying! I have couple of friends
>experienced the same thing with China Bank, although they had different U.S.
>banks.  Don't get messed up with your lovely patriotism and recognizing
>reality.

How can you absolutely sure that China Bank did that? Several friends of
yours experienced that does not necessarily mean it true.  I once put some
money together with a letter in an evelope and mailed it to my wife.It got
lost.  Also several friends of mine had the same experienced the same thing
with the mail. I remember some netters discussed this problem before here.
Should I conclude that this particular department in charge did it on
purpose to make money? 

Du

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: dxl@philabs.philips.com (Du Li)
Subject: Re: China Bank
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:14:41 GMT

In article <Bw2oCC.51B@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Chunde Shi <cshi@CS.ULOWELL.EDU> writes:
>Before You starting to trash the country, PRC which happened to my country,
>make sure who, China Bank, or your master US' bank is lying. It only
>reveals your slave metality that your jump gun that China Bank is lying.
>Event China Bank is lying, is it China Bank policy to do the lying or
>some crook in the Bank did it?

I think that almost no bank in the world has this kind of policy nowadays.
The problem is that if this situation happened in the US, you can directly
complain to the manager of the bank and get your money back immediately.
In addition, the clerk who did that might be laid off.  While in China,
you don't know what will happen and how long it will take to solve the problem
after your complaining.  It seems to me that the further away from Beijing
and Shanghai, the more likely this type of things would happen and the longer
time it would take to solve the problem.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: kxd5425@usl.edu (Du Kaisheng)
Subject: Re: future of china
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 00:22:33 GMT

In article <mvdvalk.718975065@bosporus> mvdvalk@cs.utwente.nl (Martijn van der Valk) writes:
>Dear netters,
>
>I have a friend who did a PhD in the UK and has recently finished and went back
>to China. During his stay, he saw Liu4 Si4 on BBC and he couldn't believe it
>really happened. He defended the PRC government by saying that the PLA would
>never fire at the innocent civilians.
>
>Now he's back in China. He had the chance to earn some money whilst in UK, so
>in China he's a rich man. He has tried to fit in the Beijing university life
>after having his PhD.
>
>He is so disappointed with the system: his (uneducated) political bosses at the
>university are trying to limit his freedom and making sure that he will not
>become to successfull in his career. They fear that they will lose their
>position because of him.
>
>Recently, he has become so frustrated that now he wants to leave his job and
>start some commercial enterprise on his own, just to make some money and be
>his own boss, more or less.
>
>This is what PRC government is doing to its intellectuals.
>
>Regards,
>Martijn
>--
>Martijn van der Valk                |          e-mail: mvdvalk@cs.utwente.nl
>Faculty of Computer Science / SPA   |                      phone: +53-893795
>University of Twente, P.O. Box 217  | BROADCAST BRA
>7500 AE Enschede, The Nederlands    | Pegasus; Esprit BRA 6865
Had your friend ever stayed in China before he went to UK?  Since he had
such a terrible experience in China now, it seems to me that you are suggesting that all
people should stay away from China until the goverment of China becomes
as good as the goverment of UK.


Du
From: s245@cs.utexas.edu (Spring Class Account)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Action-9201.appendix
Date: 8 Oct 1992 00:10:45 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: nada.cs.utexas.edu

The US government has always tried to suppress all its potential competitors.

It wants to blacken the image of the Chinese government.  (Maybe CG's 

image is already bad enough.)

Therefore, president Bush will have to demonstrate that the protection for 

the Chinese students is sufficient, and he will not argue that the Chinese

students don't need protection. (Indeed, as many people have pointed out,

the outcome of sending all these people back home is uncertain.)

Both the US and China are under pressure to keep the trade channel open.  The 

Chinese govn superficially stated that it wants all students to come back;

however, the real CCP policy has been :

     Only those who want to stick to the party line will be welcomed back.  

     Whoever dares to speak out will be prosecuted.

By now the CCP may have well understood that the harder it presses the

overseas students, the harder these people will react.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Based on the above, neither the US nor China is opposed to the bill.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: qin@UIATMA.ATMOS.UIUC.EDU
Subject:      Thanx to friends of group B
Reply-To: qin@UIATMA.ATMOS.UIUC.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:33:06 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

At the time of celebration, let's thank friends of group B.
Their silent support should be greatly appreciated.



A CSS from group A
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: chen@haydn.ee.uec.ac.jp (Chen Jie)
Subject: CSS in USA maybe become SCRAP HEAP in the future China
Organization: University of Electro-Communications, Chofu, Tokyo, JAPAN
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 10:48:54 GMT


CSS in the U.S.A are losing a historic chance for China as well as
for themselves although they maybe reap some profits in short eyes.
The reason is simple and obvious: historically, Chinese dislike
those who take advantages by harming others.
Unfortunately, most CSS in USA are doing so, at least from
CSS's eyes in Japan.
The following is the images given by the CSS in USA:
------They claimed loudly for the democracy and human rights of Chinese people,
but in fact what they are begging Uncle Sam to protect are themselves
(see Protection Bill ).
------They claimed loudly for the democracy and human rights of Chinese people,
but in fact what they are begging Uncle Sam to do brings harm to
those kind people inside China (see Bill lobbying for CMFC).
------They have not shown any action on what they should do, for example, 
***********to protest USA's sell of F16's to Taiwan, which is 
very dangerous to the Chinese people both in mainland China and in Taiwan;
***********to help those poor kids in China to get basic education;
*********** .......

In contrast, recent years the CSS in Japan are impressive for their talent 
and hard working. It is reported that in the recent two years,
among the CSS who came back to China to serve their people,
the members from Japan are more than 40 percent of the total numbers,
and they have brought many business chances to China. 

In conclusion, the CSS in USA are going far away from China.
When people inside China know what happened in this Net.
they maybe give a more surprising answer than I.

--
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(Ye)" <stacc0@QUANTUM.FIU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: caution
Reply-To: "(Ye)" <stacc0@QUANTUM.FIU.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:48:27 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

Thanks to all the netters who responded to my previous post. I do believe
now that to be cautious is not the right answer to this kind of e-mail. We
should just ignor it, deny its legitimacy to exist on this net, our net.

Many asked for the message and address of that person. Unfortunately, I
was so disgusted that I deleted it immediately. Lucky for him/her, for I
am sure there are more than one netter wants to tramp on his/her dead
body with vengeance. All I can remember is that the message was rather
short and written in poor English, something like 'go back China, to
doing sth for CCP', signed 'a regular reader'. If anyone see similar e-mail
like this in the future, you know what to do.

Now back to you, regular posters.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Weimin Shen <SHEN@JUNO.PHYSICS.WISC.EDU>
Subject:      About China-Bank
Reply-To: Weimin Shen <SHEN@JUNO.PHYSICS.WISC.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:50:00 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

Hi, Dear Netters:

	Since I posted the forwarded message for Mr. Yang Fulin about the
bad experience he had with the China-Bank, I have received many responses
expressing their feeling about it.  I thank all of you for your concerns.
However, I wish you could send your comments or opinions to Mr. Yang
directly since I have all the other things to take care of at this moment.
Mr. Yang's address was on the original message.  In case youu missed it, here I
post it again for you:

	fyang@calshp.cals.wisc.edu

	Thank you for your cooperation.

								W. Shen
								Madison, WI
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "J. Cen [404] 727-4676" <PHSJJC@EMRYCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: China Bank
Reply-To: "J. Cen [404] 727-4676" <PHSJJC@EMRYCC.BITNET>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:11:00 GMT

cshi@CS.ULOWELL.EDU:

>> Before You starting to trash the country, PRC which happened to my country,
>> make sure who, China Bank, or your master US' bank is lying. It only
>> reveals your slave metality that your jump gun that China Bank is lying.
>> Event China Bank is lying, is it China Bank policy to do the lying or
>> some crook in the Bank did it?

FUW@CONAN.IE.ORST.EDU:

>I absolutely believe that China Bank was lying! I have couple of friends
>experienced the same thing with China Bank, although they had different U.S.
>banks.  Don't get messed up with your lovely patriotism and recognizing
>reality.

        I have never been charged a fee by Bank of China (Shanghai, Beijing,
Guangdong and Zhejiang branches).  It could be some crooks at some local
branches inventing a new and easy way to prey on their capative customers
(you can't choose your bank in China).  It has nothing to do with "slave
mentality" or "patriotism."

        This topic is more suited for soc.culture.china.

James J. Cen
Emory University
From: yndst2+@pitt.edu (Yong Duan)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Where Yeh?
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:52:27 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <92288.110509QXF1@psuvm.psu.edu> QXF1@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>Hi everyone,Where is our Yeh? He seems to be quiet since Bush signed the bill.
>I guess he must be very depressed. Poor guy.

He is not quiet at all. I just read an article forwarded from
"misc.jobs.contract". Looks like he is working there. He probably
posted an article urging employers not hire those whom S1216 benefits.
People out there attacked him, poor boy. Somebody even suggested that
his article violated "equal opportunity, civil rights". He then
aplogized.

In my personal oppinion, he is extremlist. I feel sorry about him.
Looks like not many people like him.

Y.Duan
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: yzhou@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Joe Y. Zhou)
Subject: Re: CSS in USA maybe become SCRAP HEAP in the future China
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:40:03 GMT

zdlin@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (ZhongDong Lin) writes:

>  Good article.  I would like to see more of these kinds presenting other side
>of opinions about the protection bill, especially those who are not linked to
>it ( CSS in Japan, Canada, Australian for instances).
                   ~~~~~~~~
  I was told that CSS in Canada have got a similar bill passed right after 6.4.
  Can anyone confirm this?  
  

  joe

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china