Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:11:28 -0800
Reply-To:     Paraskevas Andrea Polydorou <polydoro@CS.SFU.CA>
From:         Paraskevas Andrea Polydorou <polydoro@CS.SFU.CA>
Subject:      Kypriako - Synomilies (h mh)
Comments: To: hellas@brownvm.brown.edu, pampaker@fraser.sfu.ca

* Sygnwmh gia thn ka0ysterhsh se olous esas tous HELLASites
* pou perimenate me agwnia thn apanthsh mou.


>+Oi symfwnies tou 77 kai79 htan kakes. Ekeines tou 60 htan epishs kakes.
>+0a grapsw thn perilhpsh tou ar0rou me tis diafores twn idewn Ghali me
>tis protaseis mas tou 89 pou htan safws ypoxwrhseis apo tis symfwnies
>+Symfwnies kales gia mas 0a htan symfwnies pou 0a anagnwrizan thn
>isothta olwn twn politwn san atomwn kai oxi san koinothtwn, kai 0a
>anagnwrizan to dikaiwma ths autodia0eshs sto synolo tou Kypriakou laou.
>Dystyxws den exw to keimeno twn idewn Ghali. Isws kanenas allos.  Spyro?
>Swsta!  To problhma Paraskeua einai oti stamathsame na "paraponioumaste"
>gi'authn thn adikia.  Epeidh ypograpsame leei, den mporoume na pame pisw.
>Mono mprosta. (Dhladh na ypoxwrhsoume kai allo.)  Kai giati parakalw?
>Edw oi Tourkoi pou eixan kai adiko, ekanan eisbolh kai zhtoun na anatrepsoun
>tis symfwnies tou 1960.  Emeis dhladh pou exoume kai dikaio giati na mhn
>to zhtoume?  An den to kanoume (opws kai den to kaname apo thn eisbolh
>mexri shmera), ousiastika paizoume to paignidi tous.
========================================================================

Ti snmaivei stamatnsame va parapovioumaste???!!
Lupamai polu, Marie, alla dev gvwrizeis arketa apo tnv sugxrovn kupriakn
istoria, '60 - '70. To ka8estws Makariou dev afnve kamia fwvn evavtia tou
va akoustei. (Blepe katatregmoi kai apeiles kata twv melwv tou
Pavgkupriou Suvdesmou Agwvistwv, fulakiseis, 3ulodarmoi kai dolofovies
avti-zurixikwv.)
To dikaio to exoume emeis, Marie, alla oxi tnv duvamn. Dioti otav eixame
tnv duvamn (blepe ellnvikn merarxia, ASDAK) zousame stov efusuxasmo,
frovtizwvtas va kratame kleista ta stomata ekeiva pou mas elegav auta pou
oi legomevoi "aporriptikoi" mas leve twra. Aln8eia, as kavouv oloi autoi
mia autokritikn sto ti ekavav kai ti elegav         tote?

========================================================================

* Mexri edw symfwnousa me ton Varnava.  Prin apanthsw omws ston Varnava
* 0a ton parakalousa na mou ekshghsei gia to 60 - t0 ti ennoei
* otan leei gia paraponoumenous, basanisthria, syndesmous agwnistwn ...
* Kai kati allo pou den katalaba einai ekeinh h dynamh "(blepe ellnvikn
* merarxia, ASDAK)".

* Sxetika me osa leei o Marios, nomizw oti exoume dyo diaforetikes
* antilhpseis gia to ti mporoume na kanoume kai na ksekanoume.
* Aplws 0a ksanapw ti nomizw egw gi'auto to 0ema:
*       Kata th gnwmh mou einai la0os o ekastote hgeths(proedros) na
*       synomilei kai na ypografei die0neis symfwnies kai thn epomenh
*       mera na mhn tis anagnwrizei.  Den mas tima auto to pragma
*       kai PLHGEI THN AKSIOPISTIA mas.

* H meta to 60 istoria mas dinei af0ona paradeigmata.  O Makarios
* ypograpse gia thn Aneksarthsia kai to dwto Syntagma kai meta apo
* ligo milouse gia enwsh se dhmosies sygkentrwseis.  Gia osous
* den kseroun, oi symfwnies apagoreuoun kathgorhmatika thn enwsh
* ths Kyprou me allh xwra.  Ta 13 shmeia einai allo paradeigma.
* Poio ystera o Kyprianou ypografei th symfwnia koryfhs tou 1979
* twra erxetai kai thn aporriptei.  Eimai sigouros oti mporeite
* na skefteite para polla alla paradeigmata.



========================================================================

>Nai, ontws to syntagma tou '60 ferei thn ypografh mas.
>"Den mporoume na aposyroume thn ypografh mas toso eukola."
>a)  Kanenas den eipe oti mporoume na thn aposyroume eukola.  To 0ema
>omws einai oti tipota den mas empodizei na ZHTOUME beltiwsh tou syntagmatos
>tou '60, opws akribws oi tourkoi zhtoun xeirotereush tou syntagmatos tou '60.
>0a mou peis "ma den 0a to dextoun oi Tourkoi!"  Kai 0a sou pw egw, "giati twra
>akoma kai me oles autes tis ypoxwrhseis pou kaname, dexontai tis protaseis
 mas?"
>Oxi fysika! Ti KINHTRO exoun?   Einai "koino mystiko" nomizw, oti otan
>diapragmateuesai (h' an protimas "pazareueis") kati, DEN kaneis san "prwth
>prosfora" ton teliko sou stoxo.  Zhtas parapanw, kai etsi exeis peri0wrio na
>diapragmateuteis.  H Ellhnikh pleura, opws fainetai apo ta praktika ths e0nikhs
>syskepshs ths A0hnas to 1974, e0ese apo arxh mia la0os taktikh, pou
 synopsizetai
>ws ekshs:  Na fanoume kaloi kai "realistes" kai na peisoume thn Tourkia na
>dextei mia lysh ligo xeiroterh gia mas apo thn katastash tou 1960.  Kai an den
>to dextei auto h Tourkia, tote exoume kai san esxath lysh kai thn omospondia.
>HA! Logariazan xwris ton ksenodoxo-Tourkia, pou ousiastika den 0a beltiwsei th
>0esh ths an fanei diallaktikh kai dextei logikh kai dikaia lysh.  Anti0etws,
>enosw emeis antidroume opws antidroume edw kai 18 xronia, h Tourkia exei kalo
>logo na pisteuei oti siga-siga 0a mas kataferei na dextoume tis syn0hkes pou 0a
>tis epitrepsei na brei thn aformh na katalabh olo to nhsi.
>b)  To oti  den mporoume na aposyroume thn ypografh mas toso eukola DEN
>shmainei oti 0a prepei na baloume thn ypografh mas se ena xeirotero
>kataskeuasma apo auto tou 1960.
>To 0ema, opws to blepw egw einai to ekshs:  H Tourkia exei thn PAGIA,
>makropro0esmh politikh tou epektatismou.  Sthn Kypro den 0a dextei tipote
>ligwtero apo mia lysh pou arga h grhgora (den biazetai) 0a ths epitrepsh na
>katalabh oloklhrh thn Kypro.  (AUTO DEN PREPEI NA TO KSEXNOUME POTE, OTAN
>SYZHTAME GIA TO E0NIKO MAS 0EMA!)
>Emeis DEN prepei na dextoume mia tetoia lysh.  Oi protaseis pou emeis oi
>idioi ypobalame to '89, poly eukola 0a epitrepsoun katastaseis pou mporoun na
>dwsoun sthn Tourkia thn dikaiologia kai thn aformh na katalabh oloklhrh thn
>Kypro.  Etsi opws einai twra ta pramata, auto einai poly dyskolo na ginei.
>0a einai megalo la0os ek merous mas na to epitrepsoume na ginei.
>Opoiadhpote logikh ontothta, (eite atomo, eite kratos, eite e0nikh omada)
>koitazei na DIASFALHSEI auta pou hdh exei, kai epipleon na BELTIWSEI thn
>katastash tou opws mporei.  Egw sou legw oti kaname LIGA gia na diasfalhsoume
>auta pou exoume  (h beltiwmenh amyntikh mas 0wrakish einai h monh eksairesh pou
>erxetai eukola sto myalo), kai TIPOTA  gia na beltiwsoume thn katastash mas
>enanti tou antipalou.  Egw to 0ewrw geloio, kai fobara paralogo, h olh mas
>strathgikh na sthrizetai sto "syzhtoume me tous tourkous, prospa0oume na tous
>kalopianoume kai na mhn tous dysarestoume, kai elpizoume oti kapote 0a
>euaresth0oun kai 0a dextoun mia kapoia lysh."  Kai mh mou peis oti den htan
>akribws auth h "strathgikh" mas edw kai 18 xronia.
>Sthn erwthsh sou gia to an den 0eloume omospondia ti 0eloume, epanalambanw
>auto pou eipa kai pio panw:   Kalh lysh gia mas 0a htan lysh pou 0a anagnwrize
>thn isothta olwn twn politwn san atomwn kai oxi san koinothtwn, kai 0a
>anagnwrize to dikaiwma ths autodia0eshs sto synolo tou Kypriakou laou.

Sumfwvw me osa les. Pnrame eva oro "Omospovdia" kai to kavame suv8nma. Dev
uparxei periptwsn va dektoume opoiadnpote lusn pou va mnv mas diafulassei.
DEN YPARXOUV PRODOTES POLITIKOI STHV KYPRO.

========================================================================

* Einai gnwsto oti h Tourkia 0elei na parei thn Kypro.  Nomizw auto to hkseran
* kai prin apo to 74 (An exw la0os dior0wste me).  H aporia mou einai giati,
* afou kserame tis pro0eseis ths Tourkias, kaname oti pernouse apo to
* xeri mas na tous kanoume na eisbaloun?

* Twra gia ta pazaremata.
* Pes mou prin apo to 74 ti katastash epikratouse?  Mhpws yphrxe
* ena kratos sthn Kypro?  La0os.  Oi Tourkoi eixan tis dikes
* tous perioxes, 0ylakes, pou htan 'aneksarthtes' apo thn Kypriakh
* Dhmokratia.  Pws 0a onomazes EKEINO to ka0estws?  Mhpws "sxedon Dixotomhsh"?

========================================================================

>Oso gia to  "AN 0eloume na diwksoume tous Tourkous xwris orous tote prepei na
>tous polemhsoume.  Nomizeis 0a nikhsoume?"  thn 0ewrw plasmatikh kai sofistikh
>erwthsh.  Kai enw kata th gnwmh mou mporei na apanth0ei eukola (NAI, an
>ksodeuame pentaplasia gia ekswplismous sthn Kypro apo oti twra, kai an to
>eixame makroxronia E0NIKH politikh mazi me thn Ellada, kai an h oikonomia ths
>Elladas ftiaxnotan, kai oi die0neis sygkyries boleuan, tote poly pi0anon, mesa
>sta epomena 50 xronia na katafername na tous polemousame, na tous nikousame,
>kai na pairname thn Kypro pisw, ftanei na eixame ypomonh, epimonh kai
>makroxronia strathgikh),  den einai h swsth erwthsh pou prepei na kanoume.
>Giati? Dioti  pairnei san DEDOMENA dyo pramata pou den einai aparaithta
>alh0ina: Oti  0eloume na diwksoume tous Tourkous xwris orous (poios to eipe
>auto? emeis aploustata 0eloume na zhsoume se mia swsth dhmokratia, opou oloi oi
>polites einai isoi san atoma, apenanti tou nomou, opou dioika h pleiopshfia kai
>yparxei sebasmos gia/kai eggyhsh twn atomikwn dikaiwmatwn twn melwn ka0e
>meiopshfias), kai oti gia na kataferoume mia swsth lysh 0a prepei na
>polemhsoume. (apo pou ki' ws pou? Pws mporei na to kseroume auto, th stigmh pou
>den dokimasame kanena eidos pragmatikhs pieshs pros thn tourkia, me
>epimonh, ypomonh, eksypnh systhmatikh propaganda, sta plaisia mias
>makroxronias pane0nikhs politikhs?)
>"Ektos fysika an eimaste etoimoi na polemhsoume gia na yperaspisoume auth thn
>apofash."   Edw, opws kai pio panw, pairneis san dedomeno oti h MONH
>enallaktikh strathgikh mas apo thn geleia strathgikh mas twn teleutaiwn 18
>xronwn einai o polemos.
>Egw 0a sto ksanapw: Diafwnw!  Exei polla pramata pou den dokimasame kan, kai
>pramata pou ta dokimasame me mish kardia, xwris estiash kai organwsh, kai xwris
>na einai meros mias makrypro0esmhs strathgikhs, dioti mesa sta plaisia ths
>potyxhmenhs mas politikhs den 0elame na dysaresthsoume thn tourkikh pleura,
>mhpws kai den "euaresth0ei" na "dextei mia lysh"!
>Edw symfwneis mazi mou, h aplws prospa0eis na me eirwneuths?   Gia to an 0a
>htan o kalyteros gia to e0niko mas 0ema proedros, ti exeis na peis, kai giati?
>Emena an kai den eimoun pote yposthrikths tou Tasou, mou fanhke logiko to
>epixeirhma pou akousa sth Kypro.
========================================================================


>Oso gia to  "AN 0eloume na diwksoume tous Tourkous xwris orous tote prepei na
>tous polemhsoume.  Nomizeis 0a nikhsoume?"  thn 0ewrw plasmatikh kai sofistikh
>erwthsh.                                                            ==========

* Euxaristw gia to komplimento.

*(NAI, an
*>ksodeuame pentaplasia gia ekswplismous sthn Kypro apo oti twra, kai an to
*>eixame makroxronia E0NIKH politikh mazi me thn Ellada, kai an h oikonomia ths
*>Elladas ftiaxnotan, kai oi die0neis sygkyries boleuan,
*
* To AN efytepsan to tzi'en eblasthsen.
* Otan les oti den 0eloume na tous diwksoume xwris orous mhpws tote
* ennoeis oti 0a diwksoume tous Tourkous (kai panta ennow tous ex Anatolias
* kai strateumata katoxhs) me orous, alla me tous dikous mas orous?
* Dioti oi tourkoi 0etoun allous orous.
* >epimonh, ypomonh, eksypnh systhmatikh propaganda, sta plaisia mias
* >makroxronias pane0nikhs politikhs?)
* No comment.
* Sygnwmh gia to sxolio sxetika me ton Tasso.

========================================================================

Telika o Kupriavou 8a eivai o upopsnfios tou "metwpou". Xasame tov
"sxeittavn" tov Tasso!!!!! Atuxia bre paidi mou giati autos eivai kalos
"ale3iptwtistns"!!

========================================================================

* Kai kati gia ton Bassileiou.
* O Bassileiou katafere na kse0apsei to Kypriako kai na to
* ferei ksana sto proskhnio.  Katafere na antistrepsei tis
* entypwseis pou mas eixan emas ws tous ypeu0ynous gia ola
* ta adieksoda stis synomilies kai na apokalypsei poios einai
* o pragmatikos anendwtos.  Xwris synomilies aplws 0a synexizotan
* h entypwsh oti den 0eloume lysh, kai to Kypriako 0ammeno.
* But this is just me.


>Kalws sas brhka,

>Filika,

>Marios

Kalws sas brnka kai 'gw,

Filika,

Varnavas A. Lambrou.

* Paraskevas
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU