HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: downforce and cornering g's (was which car handles the best?
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:23:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.Bw4Luw.Bxn
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

> mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw) writes:

>|> I wrote
>|> 
>|>                   Acceleration = Gravity
>|> 
>|> Gravity at sea level is about 9.8meters per second^2, or about 32.2 feet
>|> per second^2. So, in an idealized model of a turning car, the maximum
>|> lateral acceleration cannot be more than the acceleration of gravity. 
>|> But, as I stated in a long article previously, a turning car does not
>|> follow all of the ideal rules. You might want to read it sometimes, but
>|> then again, you might want to pick up a physics book first.     
>
>Ditto, you should.   The downward force can exceed the cars weight due to
>aerodynamic loading, and the coefficient of friction can exceed 1.0 due to
>adhesion and interaction between the irregularities between the tire and road

No shit, Shermlock. Perhaps you should read the above paragraph one more time. 
Noticed I said `idealized model`, and especially notice the part about the
long article I previously wrote. The reason I posted this is because some 
person who obviously doesn`t know squat about physics posted an article 
that questioned how lateral turning force could possibly be measured in g`s.
I responded and showed how this is so, but please notice that I made a point
at the beginning and end of my post that explained how most cars do not 
follow this `idealized` model, and that there are other things that come into
play. Regardless of this, however, this model can be used as a basis for 
making these computations. 

I think that just about everybody on this newsgroup realizes that for our 
discussion, we have been neglecting aerodynamic downforce as a factor, 
because many people were questioning how an aerodynamically neutral car
could corner at a rate greater than one `g`. I wrote a long, drawn-out
article that attempted to explain it, but it appears that not everyone read
it. This doesn`t bother me, except when people try to shoot me down without
having a clue as to what I have really said now or in the past.

Here`s a quarter, go buy a clue....


-- 
|       Michael G. Mshar        | My Life-Long Goal: To keep common sense    |
|   mmshar@mn.ecn.purdue.edu    | alive and keep the idiots from taking over.|
|  mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu   |     \\President, Nice Guys Anonymous//     |
|____>>> United States Steel, Mechanical Engineer, Technical Services <<<____|
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: iainw@bcarh1.bnr.ca (Iain Woolf)
Subject: Re: Gas mileage and gas cap seal
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:55:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.144851.2180@bcrka451.bnr.ca> mdm@bnr.ca (Diane MacMartin) writes:
>Could anyone verify/disprove the following - that is, is this just our
>imagination, or is it real?
>
[stuff deleted]
>
>We were told that the vacuum created when the gas was consumed was
>reducing our mileage, so we slit the rubber on the gas cap to allow air
>to enter the tank.  Much to our surprise, we got better gas mileage on
>the second half!

I guess this makes sense.

>Now we are finding that our 1992 Toyota Previa minivan is exhibiting the
>same symptoms.  Before we mangle the gas cap on this vehicle, could
>anyone support our findings, or was it a case of wishful thinking?  Is
>the fact that these are both Japanese cars significant?

My car has a fuel tank breather tube to combat this very problem - the
same goes for a half empty tank of gas that warms up on a hot day...
where do all the fumes go on your car? My friend used to get sprayed
with gas every time he took the cap off his gas tank at the gas station
until he cleaned out the mud and muck that had clogged his breather pipe.
His fuel consumption improved dramatically too.

>-- 
>Diane MacMartin       Bell-Northern Research, Ltd     Ottawa, Canada
>mdm@bnr.ca            Any opinions are my own and do not represent BNR.
>=========>> If this is printed on paper, please recycle it <<==========
>


--

 Iain Woolf,                      | My opinions are just that - MINE!
 BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK   | 
 (0628) 794537                    | iainw@bnr.ca
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ryo@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Ryo Inoue)
Subject: Opinions on VW Golf GTI 16V
Reply-To: ryo@oakhill.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 21:14:50 GMT

I am considering the purchase of a 1992 Golf GTI 16V.
I have test driven it, but wanted to know more about it.
Any advice on this car's reliability and fair price ?
The car would be bought brand new from a dealer.

Thanks,
Ryo Inoue
From: wattsj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (John Watts)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: GM Credit Card
Summary: pre-approved credit cards
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:15:35 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <1au8t0INNpqd@agate.berkeley.edu> shyguy@ocf.berkeley.edu (David S. Shy) writes:
>In article <BvqGs6.44x@news.cso.uiuc.edu> djm48887@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel J. Moisson) writes:
>>I just got a letter back from GM's bank and I was not approved to
>>get the MasterCard although I was Pre-Approved!!!!  They said I
>>don't make enough $ being a student!  Way to go GM!  I was just
>>trying to help our countries automakers by using their card.  Now
>>I am glad I got rid of that GM car!!
>>  
>Well, since I'm also a poor college student just
>barely making it by from all the fee increases
>they've been having, I guess I shouldn't even
>waste the $.29 to mail in my "pre-approved" GM
>mastercard form.....
>
>can i sue them for false advertisment if i get
>turned down also?
>

if the solicitation materials you received literally say "pre-approved"
(i.e., no fine print anywhere on the materials indicating "subject to"
conditions,  then i suggest anyone being turned down send all solicitation
materials & the rejection notice to their state attorney general's office
with a brief note indicating what happened.  (or, if you really want the
card, you might call the card issuer, indicate what you intend to do with
your state attorney general & see if they will then issue a card ... *then*
send the solicitation materials & the original rejection to the state 
attorney general.)

good luck.  (although if there was no "fine print" subject-to clause in the
original solicitation, i don't think you need much luck ...)

john watts
From: erich.lim@cutting.hou.tx.us (Erich Lim) 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: BMW OIL CHANGE LIGHT
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:43:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525
Reply-To: erich.lim@cutting.hou.tx.us (Erich Lim) 

-> The car is a 1985 BMW 635csi.  The oil change light on the instrument
-> panel is on.  How do I make it go out after I change the oil myself?
-> Please be specific.


  You've got to take your car to your authorized Bimmer dealer and
there, they will stick a black thing that is about half the size of a
flashlight into the Motronic computer.  It will take about 10 - 20
seconds and will reset.  ANother way, is to buy one of these.  They cost
$49 mail order and there are ad's in the back of Road&Track, Motor
Trends, etc...


Erich Lim
erich.lim@cutting.hou.tx.us
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: SHO mailing list
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:46:18 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <1992Oct12.145207.9146@rtsg.mot.com>, pacyga@rtsg.mot.com (Jim 
Pacyga) writes:
> Is there a SHO mailing list out there??? If so how do I jump on board?  
Also,
> anyone have any input about the "SHO REGISTRY"?  Any good?  Worth it?
> 
> Also, I saw a nasty rumor about a possible FORD paint recall.  Has anyone 
had
> any problems with major paint chipping on those plastic airdams?  I have an
> inordinate amount of chipping right in front of the rear wheels.  

We have talked several times about a mailing list but no one is in
a position to handle the administration of it as yet.  Are you volunteering?

The SHO Registry is good to belong to, the magazine (newsletter) is
informative and lists the location of crashed SHOs in case you need
parts.  Technical iformation is very useful IMHO.

I have heard varying opinions about a paint recall, and I have peeling
on the plastic air dam of my '90.  With the trouble that Ford
dealers can be, I have not bothered trying to have it fixed, but instead
got an estimate of $100 to repaint it (the air dam) from a reputable
body shop in Los Gatos, CA.  Their comment was that Ford did not properly
prepare the plastic for painting, having not even used primer.

SHO Registry also represents SHO owners in trying to convince aftermarket
companies to produce parts for us...

SHO Registry Address:

SHO Registry
P.O. Box 159
Carrollton, Ga.  30117



Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
Xref: sparky rec.autos:23640 rec.autos.tech:13754
From: alanh@wsl.dec.com (Alan Hamilton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Pontiac Fiero problems?
Keywords: Fiero, problems
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:37:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: PA.1992Oct8.193720.18320
Distribution: na
Organization: Western Software Lab

>
>Yep.... The Fiero is a cheap (but more expensive) take off on the Fiat/
>Bertone X1/9. Not to mention that the X1/9 will outcorner and outdrive
>any Fiero.... They are both similar in body style, but the X1/9 is a
>targa that gets 34 mpg. I have a 1974 1/2 and it is beautiful... I 
>make a hobby out of toasting Fieros.
>
>Damon
>
>questions? email:  damong@wpi.wpi.edu

Well I drive Fiero in Showroom Stock in SCCA I run times of 1:58 at
Laguna Seca and a 2:09 at Sears Point I don't recall any X1/9 going
past me, in fact I recall passing any that were in front of me and
at least one or two on the side of the track broken. Granted I'm
running in a '88 Fiero GT with 2.8 V6 and only get 18-28 mpg but I
do have alot of fun.

Oh bye the way I also have a 1985 4 cyl Fiero that turns 2:11 at Laguna
and I believe the Fiat I saw was turning 2:20s.

Alan
alan@migration.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan)
Subject: Re: Insurance Advice for Muscle Cars
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:24:19 GMT


In article <1992Oct8.145633.59539@cc.usu.edu> sly9y@cc.usu.edu writes:

>I recommend staying away from state farm.  Recently my brother hit a lady who
>ran a red light in our 65 stang.  State farm gave us $2200 for the totaled 
>car.  It happened to be an all original, one owner (my dad) Mustang.  They
>didn't take any of that into consideration, among the myriad of other things
>mustang buyers would look at in this car.   Make sure the insurance company
>understands that it is a 1970 ROADRUNNER and not just a 1970 plymouth(sp?)

Although I hate insurance companies as much as the next guy, I must
point out that your low settlement in this situation is mostly your own
fault. Your mistake was to insure the car as an ordinary car, not as a
classic or antique. Thus, when it was totalled, you got a modest "book"
value, not what the car was really worth. If you wanted to insure the
car the RIGHT way, you would have had it appraised, and taken out a
policy which would pay that amount of money. You would have submitted
reappraisals periodically (say every six months) to keep the numbers
current. (Incidentally, you would also have paid higher premiums, but
you have to expect that.) There's a special name for this type of
insurance, which I've forgotten (since I don't have any classic Mustangs
to insure ;-).

Then, when your car was totalled, you would have received the
amount of the appraised value, not a number out of some book
representing national averages.

>Definately get an appraisal.

Darn straight! Get an appraisal, then go shopping for insurance. Show
the agent your appraisal, and tell him you want the type of insurance
that will pay the full appraised value if the car is totalled.

Xref: sparky rec.autos:23988 rec.video:12344 rec.audio:13741
From: sully@genrad.com (Mark Sullivan)
Subject: tips on buying '85 honda
Keywords: honda, accord, buying.
Organization: GenRad, Inc.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:33:54 GMT


i am thinking about buying a used honda Accord.  anyone out there have any
tips on things to watch out for ??

it is a 1985, 45spd, ha-door, 5-speed, AC, and has 53K milesclock. body is in
good condition but it has a sunroof that has leaked.  there was not any mildew
so either it was garaged or had just developed the leak.  they want $2900
for it.  oh, also one of the CV boots has a rip in it.  the grease inside was
not all gritty- so i don't know how long it's been that way.  the rip is not
gaping open.........

~thanks for anything......
~mark
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: crowede@ucs.orst.edu (Debra Crowe)
Subject: Re: Mustang GT vs. Mustang LX 5.0
Organization: UCS, Oregon State University
Distribution: us
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:31:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.105508.4502@wam.umd.edu> huesmann@wam.umd.edu (Joseph
Edward Huesmann) writes:
>Hello out there. I'm considering getting a 1988 Mustang, but I don't
>know whether I should get a GT or a 5.0 LX. I've heard that the LX
>is actually slightly faster than the GT (being lighter), but how does
>the handling compare? Also, I've heard insurance rates are a lot
>lower for LXs than for GTs... Any advice? Please e-mail. Thanks!
>
>Joe
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|  huesmann@wam.umd.edu     "Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all   |
>|  Joseph E. Huesmann        the world, she walks into mine!"                |
>|                                              -- Rick Blaine, "Casablanca"  |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Handling and speed are virtually identical. The LX5.0 will cost you about 4K
less and doesn't have all those gaudy (IMO) fins & flippers that the GTs have.
I have a 5.0LX and my insurance agent didn't care that it wasn't the GT model
-- all he wanted to know was how many cylinders it had ;) and if it had the
performance handling package (which they all do).

Enjoy!

p.s. be careful w/this car in slippery (rainy) conditions as it'll want to swap
ends if you step on it. I've seen many 5.0 mustangs in a ditch the first rain
of the season.

Debra Crowe                          Email:crowede@ucs.orst.edu
University Computing Services        Phone: (503)737-2998
Oregon State University
Corvallis, OR 97331

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kh@sei.cmu.edu (Kurt Haverstock)
Subject: Re: Insurance Advice for Muscle Cars
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:42:52 GMT

In article Re: Insurance Advice for Muscle Cars of Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:17:00 GMT wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii) writes:


>Paul Gordon  x3856 (paul@hagar.tdd.sj.nec.com) wrote:
>
>: In article <Bvv9vH.M8w@mail.boi.hp.com> wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii) writes:
>: >: I recommend staying away from state farm.  Recently my brother hit a lady who
>: >: ran a red light in our 65 stang.  State farm gave us $2200 for the totaled 
>: >: car.  It happened to be an all original, one owner (my dad) Mustang.  They
>      (stuff omitted)
>: >Apparently, the vehicle was insured as a '65 Mustang, plain Jane, average
>: >miles, average condition, and for a car with that age, it's perceived value
>: >is indeed LOW.  What needed to have been done was to insure it under STATE
>: >FARM'S Antique/Collectors category which does provide better coverage.  There
>: >are a few restrictions though.  It is intended for occasional use/recreational
>: >use only (like to shows and such), mileage limits apply and it will cost you
>: >more.  
>: 
>:   If the other driver was at fault why are you not dealing with her insurance
>: company or suing her individually? The insured value is an issue between you
>: and your company and has nothing to do with the value assessed if another
>: drivers insurance is paying.
>: 
>
>I'm just figuring that the other driver's insurance tried to settle with
>State Farm for the price of a "normal" '65 Mustang.  Since it was not 
>insured at the higher "collectors" rate, then State Farm is only obligated
>to collect the value (for their own business and stockholders) that the 
>vehicle was insured for.  They certainly are not going to out of their way
>to collect more money on something that wasn't insured for more to start 
>with. 
>
>I'm not sure what method "everyday people" can get reasonable results from 
>insurance companies directly.  Suing the other party is certainly an option. 
>For the plaintiff, the hard question to answer is "if the car was worth 
>that much, then why wasn't it insured as such?."


State Farm offers a 'stated value' policy that I had on a '72 Dart...
no mileage restrictions or appraisals involved. I just had to send them
photos of the vehicle.


Kurt

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: madd@world.std.com (jim frost)
Subject: Re: tires, the laws of physics, and reality as we know it
Organization: The World @ Software Tool & Die
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:24:41 GMT

basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji) writes:
>[excellect tirade chomped]

>In addition to the shear forces acting on the tire and road (or snow),
>there's also adhesive forces acting between the tire and the road.
>This throws another wrench in the analysis.

And centrifical forces as the tire's rotational speed increases; these
forces tend to reduce friction by shrinking the contact patch because
the center of of the tire tends to extend outward beyond its at-rest
position while the edges near the tire walls do not.

And the point at which the tire deforms against the pavement has a
strong vertical component which also lifts the tire off the pavement,
reducing the contact area.

Suddenly it ain't so simple anymore.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: sho limits
Date: 12 Oct 92 05:44:07 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Oct9.202555.2457@newsgate.sps.mot.com> mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw) writes:
>|> 	With cars like the SHO or an air-cooled VW the problem is
>|> magnified because of the very biased weight distribution.
>The problem can also be aggravated by too little weight distribution
>with poorly portioned brakes.  The rear lightens up, the wheels can

	Bingo.  The brakes on the SHO (I have an 89, pre-ABS) are very
poorly proportioned in that even a hard stop in normal conditions can
lock the rears.



Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: flat engines
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:16:43 GMT

In article <Oct16.002125.13760@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct15.233712.15024@newsgate.sps.mot.com> mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw) writes:
|> >I have followed this thread for some time, and as yet have heard what the
|> >superior traits are.  Merely because a Ferrari, Porsche, whatever used it
|> >is not an attribute.  What is the real advantages of flat engines with
|> >respect to performance, durability, or costs?
|> 
|> the original thread was in engine balancing.  flat engines are
|> inherently better balanced than vees or inlines.  they are also more
|> expensive, though nobody has been able to come out with a clear
|> explanation why.

That is why I asked.  There are more difficult manufacturing problems due
to the need for some form of split-case or multi-cover access to the crank.
The split cases require careful tolerances and line boring.  One could also
note that there is usually more material used (and therefore machined) since
there are two extra "end-pieces" over the same number of cylinders in an
in-line design.  There is also added drive components in overhead cam versions
(or you got to live with pushrods).

Aside from the balance (which is not always true -- look at how a 4-cylinder
Lycoming shakes!) and a possible lower CG there is little to offer with
flat designs.  And these are secondary performance issues.  

Mark
From: hacker@cco.caltech.edu (Jonathan Bruce Hacker)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: simple starting probl
Date: 7 Oct 1992 05:13:42 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds)  writes:

>I've been told that petroleum jelly is great at keeping battery terminals
>from corroding, just put on the inside of the cables (where they contact
>the terminal), and you shouldn't have any problems with corrosion til you
>need a battery replacement anyhow!


I put petroleum jelly on my battery terminals, and after the engine
compartment warmed up the jelly melted and flowed all over the top of
battery.  So I guess you should probably use the stuff sparingly.  It
has stopped terminal corrosion though, so it wasn't a complete
debacle.

-- 
Jon Hacker
Caltech, Pasadena CA
hacker@tumbler-ridge.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: comptec91025@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: PC's vs. Mac's... was: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:27:32 GMT

In article <1211@xlnt.COM>, david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:
> bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense) writes:
> I drive an AWD now, and have driven RWD and FWD, all in snow, FWD is
> better in snow for complete morons who want to take off in it the same
> way they drive on dry pavement. RWD is fine, and with a little knowledge/
> preperation (such as adding a 50# bag of sand in the rear) they will
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

DON'T EVER DO THIS!!!!  If you are driving down the street with a 50 pound
sack in your trunk, and hit the brakes hard, that 50 pound sack is going
to fly right through the back seat into the occupants of the car!!

<stuff deleted...>

> -- 
> David Johnson
> XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
> david@xlnt.com

Just my .02 for the day....

Ian.