From: emremsia@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Emre Erkut)
Subject: Re: Musluman Turkiye!
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: soc.culture.turkish
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:54:17 GMT

In article <28548@castle.ed.ac.uk> emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral) writes:
>THIS IS A RESPONSE TO EMRE ERKUT.      
>(225 lines)
>
>>
>>I guess you do not know much about the origins of Turks. Our origin is not
>>Islam but the Turkic identity itself. What makes some Turks resort to Islamic
>>life 100% is not necessarily honesty but desparation in other areas of life.
>
>Innalillah Wa inna ilayhi raciun.
>
>To Allah we belong, and to Him is our return.
>
>By the way, who was born Turkish because he wanted so?            
>By the way, who was born English because he wanted so?            
>By the way, who was born Scottish because he wanted so?            
>By the way, who was born American because he wanted so?            
>By the way, who was born Arabic because he wanted so?            
>By the way, who was born Kurdish because he wanted so?            
>
>If there is no one, what is racism/nationalism all about?
>
>>There are no 'believers' of Ataturk because he is not a religious
>>figure.
>
>What are his idols doing all over the place?  Is not that idol-worshipping?
>Isn't he the god of Turks who have shown them "the straight path"?
>If not, why then when a matter arises we take what he has said rather
>than what Allah(SWT) ordered even if they are contradictory to each other?
>
>>>1- He abolished the khilafe.
>>
>>By that time the khilafe had lost almost all his function and was
>>just a formal title.
>
>It was better than nothing which is what Turkey is now.
>Sorry, it is at least a turkey in the eyes of the West.
>This is a bit harsh even for me, however this is the fact.
>
>>
>>>2- He disconnected all the relationships between muslims around the
>>>   world and Turkey.
>>
>>We are still in connection w/the rest of the Muslims.
>
>What is the difference between an arab who thinks his race is
>superior and a turk who thinks his race is superior?  They are
>both educated by the people with the mentality of Ataturk.
>Remember "Ne mutlu Turkum diyene!"
>         "How happy is the one who says 'I am a Turk'!"
>How about the English, the American, the Egyptian,.....
>
>In the sight of Allah(SWT) the best is with the highest level of
>taqwa(God-conciousness) not with the race.
>
>>>3- He advocated corrupted western culture to settle in Turkey.
>>
>>It is true that he made some aspects of the Western culture settle
>>in Turkey, but from an absolutely objective viewpoint one cannot say
>>the Western culture is corrupt, one can only say it is different.
>
>Why then you find 30% of the children illegitimate in Western culture?
>Why then you find the highest rate of AIDS in the West?
>Why then you find the highest divorce rate in the West?
>Why then you find the highest rate of rape in the West?
>Why then you find the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in West?
>Why then do you find the highest level of incest in the West?
>....
>..
>
>>What he eliminated at that time is not the Islamic script but the Arabic
>>script. It happens to be the script of Quran because Mohammed was an
>>Arab. If the Islamic prophet were , say, in Africa, the Quran would be
>>in Swahili. Is that enough reason to use that language or script in all
>>Islamic countries?
>
>If you are offended by the "arabic" script,
>then why are not you offended by the latin script?
>
>>In addition, one can learn the Roman alphabet in a fairly short amount of
>>time. On the other hand, it would literally take years to become
>>proficient in the Arabic script or language. Now if such a transformation
>>was needed, one had to do it.
>
>This is a simple excuse told us by the teachers which does not make
>sense when compared to Pakistan who is much better off than Turkey
>in science at the moment.  How about Japan and China?  Now
>Americans are learning Japanese and keeping some Japanese articles
>like treasures.
>
>>Currently Religion is a compulsory course in Turkish schools at grades 2
>>thru 11. Almost all the books contain 95% Islamic principles and beliefs,
>>which is natural since approximately the same percent of the country is
>>Islamic. However, if there is a brainwashing going on, it can only be
>>against other religions because they are not portrayed well enough in
>>the Religion books of the Ministry of Education.
>
>Do they teach the real meaning of the Kalimah Shadah, or do they raise
>people like you who believe that Islam means daily physical exercise
>and occasional hunger?  If all that education you mentioned above
>was worth more, you would not write what you have written above.
>
>>Starting from grade 4 Turkish pupils study Turkish history starting from
>>the times when we were in Middle Asia to the 1930's. This continues until
>>the 11th grade, and by that time the typical Turkish student has been   
>>taught Turkish history three times, each time in increasing detail. This
>>includes , of course, the history of the Turkish nation under Islam,
>>starting from the 10th century. After having thoroughly seen what the 
>>Ottoman empire has turned to after centuries of misery by 1900, the 
>>free-minded Turkish student can only be grateful to Ataturk who abolished
>>the Islamic rule in Turkey, not exactly because Islam is detrimental to
>>national health in itself, but because it has been consistently used as
>>a tool for political means. And since Islam has rules for almost every
>>area of life, it is a very powerful tool for this reason indeed.
>
>The history of the Turks have not been told properly.  All we know is
>about the wars and peace agreements.  This is not proper.
>We are not told the motivation of the former rulers.  We are not
>told the way they have ruled such a huge country in success    
>for ages.  We are not told the events which have greater importance
>than the wars and peace agreements.  Hence, a man who studies
>Islamic history in Malesia knows much more than me about Turkey.
>
>>Correct, but this severe cut was necessary to rescue a nation from the
>>miserable state of affairs prevailing then. 
>
>How do you know?  What is your source?  You were the one who was talking about
>being objective.  And then you easily give a biased judgement.
>
>>>7- He murdered thousands of muslim people for just not wearing a
>>>   western hat.
>>Now all I can tell is why don't you ask some Turkish guys at Ohio State
>>about that?
>
>Why?  Because this is not written in your history books, isn't it?
>
>>There are no samples of his actions or words proving, or even suggesting,
>>a discrediting attitude towards Islam. He might not be totally Islamic
>>in his behaviour and attitudes ( for instance everyone knows he never
>>bent down and prayed ) but there is no record showing his dissent
>>against Islam. On the contrary, he recommended Islam for the Turkish
>>people. 
>
>I guess you did not have a chance to read the messages written by
>KELLY.  May be he can post you the sources which explicitly
>states that Ataturk even thought of changing the religion of the
>country to Christianity.  Would that make you happy?
>
>>The principle of 'Peace in the country, peace on earth' suggests a 
>>completely different meaning: I will not attack my neighbour unless
>>it attacks me, and peace on earth can only be achieved by peace within
>>nations. Apart from that, please recall another principle by him:
>>I won't give a feet-square of my country's territory to someone else,
>>AND I will not require any other country to give a feet-square to me 
>>from its own territory.
>
>A selfish mind.  How about your neighbours?  Is that why Turkey just
>watched the slaughter of 1500 hundred civilian in Azerbaijan accross
>the border.  And is that why Turkey watching the holocaust in
>Bosnia.  "Bana dokunmayan bin yasasin!"
>However Turkey was first applying sanctions against Iraq.
>Why?  Look at Greece, who keeps feeding Serbs with Oil despite 
>U.N. sanctions. 
>
>>Currently, it is against the tradition to talk against Islam or Mohammed
>>or Allah in the Turkish public. Try to say Mohammed was a traitor on the
>>street in Istanbul, and if the police doesn't get you and put a coke
>>bottle in a delicate part of your body, a grocery store owner will most
>>probably try to beat you
>
>Yes, but the same people would not mind selling alchol, or newspapers
>which can not be sold in the rotten West, because they are even more
>rotten due to the pornographic pictures.
>
>>One cannot rely on claims when trying to evaluate great historical 
>>figures. One should take a sample of the facts and then do the 
>>reasoning, not put forward some ideas and then try to adapt the facts to
>>that certain reasoning. Today lots of people claim Mohammed is not a
>>prophet at all but was a rich and clever Arabic trader. However, this does
>>not change the fact that he was one.
>
>A. Maududi, a prominent Muslim scholar says that if someone believes in the 
>prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh) and  do not mind to act against his teachings 
>than he is a rejecter of the faith that is kafir.  I pray that you might
>increase your knowledge about Islam and close the gap left between you
>and your Creator and Sustainer.
>
>>
>>A last reminder: what Ataturk did to Turkey should be judged looking at the
>>situation of the country before the Republic and after the Republic. No 
>>one can deny the FACT that today Turkey is in a state of stability and
>>coherence incomparable to the caos in the 1910's. He did not do his
>>revolutions to rescue Islam, he did them to rescue the Turkish state.
>>Therefore, whether Islam still rules the country or not is an irrelevant
>>question.
>
>Many Muslim states were born and died, but Islam always remained as
>it was revelaed 1400 years ago.  Therefore there can not be anything such
>as "rescueing Islam."
>
>As far as stability and coherence...   These are very exaggerated words
>for Turkey.  Even Europeans feel that they are going downward, and therefore
>they are in panic now.  Look at the density of the recent meetings.  	
>Turkey, still begging to be the tail of the Europe does not deserve
>to be called stable and coherent.
>
>However I strongly believe that Turkey can be the leader of the World if it 
>return back to the Creator's way.  I want this for my fellows, relatives,
>brothers and sisters who deserve it more than kafirs.
>
>**********************************************************************
>Allah(SWT) does not change the situation of a people unless they
>change themselves.
>********************************************Translation of a verse from
>********************************************Holy Qur'an................ 
>
>>
>>Emre Erkut
>>Krannert School, Purdue
>>Turkish Education Foundation 1992 Overseas Scholar
>
>Hamid
>A servant of the Master of the Heavens and the Earth

Please look at my previous message.

Emre Erkut
Krannert , Purdue
Turkish Education Foundation 1992 Overseas Scholar