HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble)
Subject: Re: Social Democracy
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:03:45 PST

In article <1992Nov5.144114.28867@macc.wisc.edu>, on 5 Nov 92 14:41:14 GMT,
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>
>
>In article <19921104235835ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
>ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:
>
>>What I do know is that [Sarver] has been unjustly accused of
>>being homophobic merely because he made the observation that
>>the media focuses on a certain segment of the GLB community
>>not viewed in great esteem by the public at large when the
>>media cover gay pride parades (This is an observation which
>>has been made, incidentally, by a number of GLB activist
>>groups as well),
>
>Interesting gloss on "merely."  Which "GLB activist groups" do
>you refer to?
>
Your comment is quite revealing, since you thereby suggest that
either or both of those actions does constitute homophobia.
I suppose, like Humpty Dumpty, when you use a word, it means exactly
what you say it means, nothing more nor less.


However, to answer your specific question, the observation about the
media's imbalance in coverage of the Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade was
made by GLAAD (Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation) about the
network news footage of the 1990 parade.

>--
>Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
>Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
>NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
>Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
>

        =Jack=
---

Jack B. Newsbaum             You have rights antecedent to all earthly
Library Information Systems  governments; rights that cannot be
University Research Library  repealed or restrained by human law.
ecl4jn2@mvs.oac.ucla.edu               - John Adams
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: daniel@nstn.ns.ca (Daniel MacKay)
Subject: Re: Pink dollar, red circle slash...
Organization: NSTN Network Operations Centre, Nova Scotia, Canada
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:40:50 GMT

In <1992Nov7.004904.29643@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.203022.22584@nevada.edu> balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks) writes:
>>The Triangle works.  It's simple.  It's pink.

>I was
>trying to find a pink triangle earring to wear, because I like the
>idea of always being identified as queer 

Shocking Gray has some nice anodized aluminum ones in their Fall/Holiday
cat.
--
Daniel MacKay					daniel@nstn.ns.ca
Homo habilis					Nova Scotia, Canada
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jackies@fc.hp.com (Jackie Sheddy X6958)
Subject: Re: Early Colorado results
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 06:54:46 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.3 PL6]

I talked to some friends  earlier today.  EPOC is not going to roll over
and play dead.  They met with Gov.  Roy Romer,  Denver Mayor  Wellington
Webb  and  Congresswoman  Pat  Schroeder.  I  think  they  are  planning
strategy on how to fight this outrage.

Any  help  and  support   from  outside  of  Colorado  is  welcomed  and
appreciated.



Peace,

Jackie
jackies@hpxxx.fc.hp.com
Hate is NOT a Family Value!!

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: strong@apple.com (Bob Strong)
Subject: Re: Mouse Balls
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:34:43 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Nov10.040346.11316@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson
Minar) wrote:
> 
> In article <45552@ogicse.ogi.edu> markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
> >yes, Parc did invent the mouse
> 
> you mean Apple didn't? I thought they invented the combustion engine,
> the mouse, and the GUI!

We invented all those things, and we invented PARC too.  But don't tell
anyone that I let the mouse out of the bag.
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Don't Stop!  (played by Clinton/Gore after victory speech)
Date: Fri,  6 Nov 92 20:11:04 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Michael Masterson writes:
>Don't Stop, by Fleetwood Mac

[An eminently appropriate song for the occasion, methinks.]

CNBC has a talk show hosted by Phil Donahue and another
gentleman whose name escapes me [actually, I suppose it is
more accurately described as a CALL IN show].

The subject of the show last night was the "age gap,"
demonstrated by the fact that most younger voters tended to vote
for Clinton.

Phil Donahue speculated that George Bush didn't even know what
Fleetwood Mac *was*.  "A new GM truck?"   ;-{)##]

 
() The imposition of stigma is the commonest form of
() violence used in democratic societies.
()      -- R. A. Pinker
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: raisch@Control.COM (Robert Raisch)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Mouse Balls
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:38:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: cthulhuC.2728
Organization: Control Technology Corp., Hopkinton MA

markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:

>In article <1992Nov9.233028.22047@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>The memo itself is pretty funny; it originated on IBM's VNET 3-4 years ago

>of money on yet another Xerox invention (yes, Parc did invent the mouse).

	Ummmm.... perhaps I misremember this bit of techno-trivia, but it
was Douglas Engelbart who invented the mouse, as well as the key-chord
which has seen substantially less exposure than that pointing device.

	Engelbart was, I believe, employed by McDonnell-Douglas at the time
working on the AUGMENT system, which was a precursor to hypertext.  Although
I could be wrong on the affiliation, Engelbart did not work for PARC during
this time.

	(It burns me when we neglect the true creators.  Dr. Engelbart
deserves a nobel for most of his work.  Most of it has since been stolen.)

	</rr>
-- 
--
As a matter of conscience, I will no longer support any business in Colorado.
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Hell has frozen over
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:39:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: queernet.BxB55o.94L
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Nov5.213925.13727@ncselxsi.uucp> fisher@ncselxsi.uucp (Chuck Fisher) writes:
>Safire's column
>aren't always of political bent, they often talk about the (dis)use of
>the English language.

Actually, the Language column and the political columns are syndicated
separately.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: I'm Not Political (was Re: Colorado's Amendment 2)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 13:20:01 GMT


In article <1992Nov6.185258.25519@PacBell.COM>
rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:

>Have I mentioned the long line that still forms at the ATMs
>outside Bank of America's (proud Boy Scout contributor)
>branch at Castro & Market Streets in San Francisco?  Have I
>mentioned that San Francisco's GLBO voters couldn't manage
>to elect Cleve Jones to one of *six* vacant seats on the
>Board of Supervisors?  Have I mentioned all the lesbian and
>gay employees at Pacific Bell that I've asked to join our
>G/L employee association -- anonymously! -- only to hear,
>"Oh no, I'm not political"?

Maybe the world's most infuriating phrase, isn't it?  If
only you could get people to see that saying that, worse yet
having the mindset that lets them say that, *is* being
political, and playing right into the hands of the very
people most bent on destroying us.

>What does it take to move GLBOs out of our suicidal inertia
>and work for our own interests?  Why do we talk of a gay
>"community" when most of us can't see beyond our own navel?

However discouraging it may be (well, it *is*, isn't it?),
we have to start from where we are.  Apathy, ignorance,
blind self-interest, and plain old fear are all ingredients
in a powerful elixir of isolation that millions of our folk
take with their morning OJ (to cover up the bitter taste).
OJ makes your blood sugar start going up in about 30
seconds, I guess, and with it the indifference endorphin
gets in your brain.  In a minute, voil'a, the foe's best
friend has done its duty: an inert citizen being quite
unpolitical.

>Rod [catching PEDS (post-election depression syndrome)]

The antidote is rage, of course.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Boycott Worse than Pointless
From: mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (mike batchelor)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 20:41:00 PDT
Distribution: world               
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>
> [...]
> Indeed, here we have an amendment saying it is now [legal] to toss
> someone from their job for being gay.  And how does the American
> gay community react?  By seeking to destroy the Colorado economy,
> thereby putting them out of work anyway.
> 
> Brilliant.  Really fucking brilliant.
> 
> God save Colorado from a tide of Totalitarian Tinkerbells.
> 
> *X*

Hey Melmac!  Ever heard of a conscience?  It's something thoughtful
people have that tells them things.  Things like:

1.  Some things are more important than economics.

2.  Sometimes a gesture is needed to make a statement, in addition to
any action that might be taken.

3.  Despicable things need to be despised.

Is Amendment 2 despicable?  What do you think?

If it is, shouldn't you then despise it?  How will your despite see
its expression?  So far, it seems that you are more concerned with
despising the despisers.  But then, this is understandable.  I see
your post as clear evidence of how much you despise yourself.  It
makes me sad.

I'm sure you don't see it that way.  But I sincerely hope that one
day, you will.  But that will not happen until you can see that you,
personally, deserve better than Amendment 2 from your neighbors.

I know our brothers and sisters in Colorado won't hold it against us.
Except for the ones who hate themselves like you do.  I wouldn't hold
a boycott against the rest of Gay America if it was California that
had passed an Amendment 2.  I'd cheer them on.



[] ---
[] Mike Batchelor <> Long Beach, California
[] mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us <or> mikebat@qdeck.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jackies@fc.hp.com (Jackie Sheddy X6958)
Subject: From Colorado
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:39:07 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.3 PL6]




I have been extremely upset since Amendment 2 passed on Tuesday last.  I
have never been politically active, but I have a feeling that my life is
about to change.  My lover and I will be  writing  letters  to the local
papers, the Denver  papers, the  Governor's  office and  President-elect
Clinton.

I have been  keeping up with the  postings  from  around the country and
around the world.  It is hard to live in a state that has just legalized
discrimination  against you  specifically.  I agree with everyone who is
calling  for a boycott of Colorado  goods and  services.  I wish I could
participate  as fully as some of you.  Living  here, I can't  boycott as
effectively as I would like.

Unfortunately,  the  county I live in voted FOR  Amendment  2 by a 57-43
margin.  My neighborhood voted for it.  It really sucks when you live in
a bigotted  neighborhood.  My kids have to go to school with them.  But,
as someone  pointed  out, the wording of  Amendment 2 was  confusing.  I
truly think that a lot of people didn't look past the "minority  status,
quota  preferences and special status."  They saw that and said, "No way
are THOSE PEOPLE getting that," and thought they were doing right.

CFV pulled off the  slickest  anti-Civil  Rights  campaign  in  American
history.  Just put the lies ahead of the  hidden  agenda,  people  won't
read past that.  And they  didn't.  Then, they were smart enough to name
JUST the target group.

I hope the rest of the country is watching  closely.  It could happen to
you.  Don't  think  for a minute  that the  religious  fanatics  (that's
exactly  what  they  are -  remember  Iran?)  are  going  to  stop  with
Colorado.  After  the  queers,   who's  next?  Single   women?  Divorced
people?  These  fanatics  want to take us back to the  days of  biblical
law.  It should be interesting  to see what happens in the coming weeks.

I pray we can make this  blow up in their  faces.  Let's  put  aside our
differences  and band together to give the gay  community a real feeling
of COMMUNITY!  If we all stick  together no matter what our feelings for
each other, we can beat this menace to democracy and the free world.



Peace,

Jackie
jackies@hpxxx.fc.hp.com
Hate is NOT a Family Value!!
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Social Democracy
Date: 2 Nov 92 15:36:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.Bx3I0n.A4y
Organization: Open Communications Forum

ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:

>In article <28OCT92.11341388@enh.nist.gov>, on 28 Oct 92 16:34:13 GMT,
>aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:

>>
>>In a previous article, laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton) wrote:
>>>In article <1992Oct24.204121.17587@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>>>>In article <19921022174109ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:
>>>>>I'm pleased this newsgroup is not totally populated by the totalitarian
>>>>>Tinkerbells of the left
>>>>
>>>>I'm amazed to see such a homophobic insult spewed here. This shit has
>>>>no place in a lesbigay positive newsgroup, and I for one would
>>>>appreciate an apology.
>>>
>>>I think that you need perspective, not an apology.  the expression
>>>``tolaterian tinkerbells'' is rude, and insulting.  However it
>>>is a rude insulting term which the middle-of-the-road and the
>>>conservatives have called *all* leftists since 1960 for sure,
>>>(oldest reference I have) and no doubt before that.  It isn't
>>>an insulting term for queers in that context.
>>
>>Perspective doesn't make an insult okay.  Conservatives have been calling
>>all leftists "pinkos" and other homophobic insults since at least
>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>the time of McCarthy.  It is an insulting term for queers, regardless of
>>any so-called perspective.
>>
>If I were to hear somebody , say a leftist, called a "pinko", to me it
>would suggest being labelled as some sort of Communist sympathizer. What
>has any of that to do with homophobia? You surely are not suggesting
>that all leftists who have been called pinkos are gay, are you?


Communist    (CAHM-ee) n. 1. Member of the Communist Party.  2. A legendary
	     boogeyman appearing only in fundraising letters.  Any actual
	     resemblance between (1) and (2) is purely coincidental.
	     See Red.
Pinko        (PINK-oh) n. 1. An all-purpose innuendo used to imply that your
	     opponent may be a homosexual when you don't have any actual
	     evidence and don't want to be sued for libel, in which case
	     you can maintain that, really, pink is just a shade of red,
	     honest.  See the pyramids along the Nile.
Sympathizer  (CAHM-ee-SIMP) n. 1. Your opponent in any election.  See Stooge.
Tinkerbell   (TINK-er-bell) n. 1. A cutesy way of calling someone homosexual
             without sounding too harsh or making your meaning clear enough
	     to be sued for libel.  See Nancy Boy, limp wristed, mince.

-- 
Brent Capps                          | 
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | okay, but wash it first.
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: Adoption?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:06:59 GMT

GEORGE C. LIN (gcl0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu) wrote:
> 
> How hard is it for a homosexual couple to adopt a child?
> 
> any body out there with this experience care to reveal the process
> and any snags that he/she might've ran into along the way?
> 
> Thanx.
> 
> George
> -email preferred.--
 
Please summarize the responses, OK?

--
Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:36:29 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <BOB.92Nov11202308@dolores.Stanford.EDU>,
bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper) wrote:

> But I strongly suspect that some hypothetical "hyper-manly" actor who
> was purely incapable of acting in any other way (i.e. the role of a
> swishy gay man, sensitive guy, crossdresser, whatever) would not be
> flunked out.  It would likely be said that such roles are sufficiently
> unusual that an inability to act them out properly was not a fatal
> failure of professional competence, while inability to act the role of
> standard American straight man is too unprofessional.

You are almost certainly correct.  This is, I believe, what Dolphie
called 'The brute fact of life.'  It is certainly true in the
'real' world of theater.  And so the argument turns on whether or
not it is the responsibility of a drama school to turn out students
who can 'make it' on the professional stage; or, whether or not the
school's responsibility is purely one of teaching some absract 
combination of 'fundamentals' - but stop short of forcing the realities
of the professional world upon the students.

I believe it is acceptable for a world-class institution to treat
its students as 'professionals.'  If the student is simply interested
in acting as an art, and not as a career, then he (or she) should
look for a more 'artsy' school.  A very major point in going to
a top-of-the-line institution is prestige, for use as a calling
card.  The school's prestige is dependent on turning out a 'product'
that sells well.  In this case, for the drama department to remain
prestigious, the actors it trains must get prestigious parts.

Playing in _Streetcar_ is more prestigious than playing in gay
theater.  If a student *wants* to do gay theater, he (or she) 
should not go to a school that concentrates on the professional
main stream.

And, by the way, if 'gay' theater ever reaches the point where it
can drop the leading adjective and make it as 'theater' - then
institutions like CM will likely ease up on 'mannerisms.'

*X*
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: A fan letter (was Re: discrimination at CMU)
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:57:53 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

I received such a nice letter today.  I was particularly
charmed by this:  

    You may or may not be homosexual, but anyone who displays 
    the sort of internalized homophobia you do is not entitled 
    to the dignity of the term "gay." Why don't you get off this 
    group and go to talk.bigots or alt.self-hate, where your 
    dubious talents would be better appreciated. 

I have to say that this thread has been a real eye-opener.
And it's not just that people seem incapable of grasping the
difference between academic and performing arts college 
programs, or that there's a misunderstanding about the nature 
and purpose of theater programs.  It's this whining.  This
readiness to claim victim status.

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: A Dumb Question, But...
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:07:46 GMT

In article <mbeyer.472.721076383@ubvax.ub.com> mbeyer@ubvax.ub.com (Mark Beyer) writes:
>If I remember my history correctly, the platform he was elected on said 
>nothing about freeing the slaves, but said plenty about keeping the Union 
>together.  I'm not sure he would have freed them if the war had been going 
>better.

The best indication of this is the fact that he only freed
southern slaves.  There were plenty of slaves in the North
(especially the border states), and they were not freed by
the Emancipation Proclamation.  Lincoln was a true-blue
Republican.
--
           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado

       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: black@sybase.com (Christina Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Activism on a Neighborhood Scale
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:58:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov2.171330.351@exu.ericsson.se>, exukev@exu.ericsson.se (Kevin Autrey) writes:

|> I got a hint of the flake I was dealing with when he told me that he
|> felt that homosexuality (much like alcoholism) was "a glitch" caused
|> by solar radiation that had affected the DNA in some way (this is a
|> new theory on me).  I'm not kidding here folks - this is what he said!

No, no, he's got it all backwards!  We turn gay, THEN we go to Key
West!

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
From: guest@veronica.cs.wisc.edu (Guest account)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: One good thing that came about as a direct result of CO-2
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:59:10 GMT
Reply-To: timdude@saavik.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences


Last night when I arrived at home, I found my boyfriend (Jim) sitting
at his typewriter (!) furiously writing a letter to the colorado Tourism
Board.  This, from the same person who steadfastly *refused* to vote
on November 3, despite months and weeks of pleading and prodding to do
so from yours truly.  He's finally come around and realized that this
is an us-or-them situation.  I gave him the other addresses that I
posted yesterday and he sent boycott letters to them, too.

He also gave me the OK to give TCI cable the axe.  I thought that
would be a difficult thing to sell him on, but he said he was already
considering asking me to do it and was glad that I was going to.

He also had a novel idea that I haven't seen come up here yet, and
would be a very direct way to get the attention of colorado residents
who are travelling out-of-state.  He's going to make up some small
flyers and carry them with him at all times.  They are to be put under
the windshield wipers of any vehicle with colorado license plates and
will say something like:

"Your car has been singled out to receive this flyer because it is
registered in the state of Colorado.  Since you are a resident of the
very first state to ever amend its constitution by popular vote to
take away the basic civil rights of an entire group of its citizens,
namely Gays, Lesbians, and Bisexuals, you are no longer welcome here.
A boycott of all goods and services produced in your state has been
put into effect and will remain in effect until the amendment has been
repealed.  A boycott of Arizona, prompted by the state's refusal to have
a Martin Luther King holiday, cost Arizona residents an estimated
$5 billion.  It is fervently hoped that this boycott will cost the
state and citizens of Colorado at least that amount, if not more."

I think it's a great way to remind citizens of colorado that the rest
of the nation is watching what's going on in disgust.  In this case,
suggestions on changing the wording, etc., are welcome.  You can even
suggest that I not carry this out, but I'll probably just nod politely
and go on doing it.  This is war.

-Tim Petlock
timdude@saavik.cs.wisc.edu
All you need is a three-dollar-bill and a dream.
Newsgroups: soc.motss