From: varis@zoyd.ae.utexas.edu (Varis (Carey))
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Bidding problems..
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:48:31 GMT
	<1992Aug10.235025.4169@ramon.bgu.ac.il>
	<VARIS.92Aug13124337@zoyd.ae.utexas.edu> <1556@idacrd.UUCP>
Organization: CFD Lab, Dept ASE-EM, University of Texas at Austin
In-reply-to: desj@ccr-p.ida.org's message of 14 Aug 92 02:37:21 GMT

Varis Carey <varis@zoyd.ae.utexas.edu> writes:
> [ discussing AK Jxx AKxx KQT9 ]

>Here is what happened at the table, with Ron Rubin, member of
>the Spingold winning team, holding the disputed hand.
>
>1H-DBL-P-1S-2C!
>
>A great bid by a champion.  This avoided the distortion of the 1Nt
>rebid, and allowed his partener to make a descriptive call, (like show
>a diamond side suit, or bid NT with a 5-7 count, or hell, even raise clubs)

David desJardins writes:
Well, assuming that the great champion did not in fact bid out of turn,
this is a bid which could work out well and could also work out badly,
and I'm sure that Ron Rubin would admit that.  How many IMPs would you
score in 2C passed out, down two, when partner holds Jxxx/xxxx/Jxx/xx?
Unlike you, however, I would not say that it is a bad call, just because
it's not my choice.

A: opponents are making 1H on this hand. The strong hand will be
terminally endplayed after drawing 3 rounds of trumps. They always
have 6 tricks and tons of chances for 7-8 with AK tight off spades.
(Assuming hearts are 5-1) with 6 they always make 1.

B: I think down one is a more realistic result on this board.  I would
consider myself unlucky not to garner an extra trick with the KQT9 of clubs.
The primary reason for this is the blockage in hearts(unless RHO has AKQxx)

So your "horror" result equals lose 1 imp or push.

 
>Pass puts too much pressure on partner.  With Qxxx xxx Qxxx xxx he
>would pass, the opponents would make 7-8 tricks in hearts, and you
>would be smiling with -80 on your face when you are near ice for
>+110-lose 5 or 6 imps.
             David continues//
But you can't score +110 if this is the hand.  First of all, it is a
misdeal.  Secondly, assuming partner has only 13 cards, say
Qxxx/xxx/Qxx/xxx, partner will rebid 3C over double followed by 2C, and
you will be too high and in the wrong strain.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

With this hand you will go down one in 3C. if they lead a heart and
the hearts are not 6-1 with stiff honor.  if this is the case, you make.
You can also make if the J of clubs is onside and clubs are 3-3.  But
down one. -100. Oppoenets are probably making 1H or down one.  so it
is either lose 1 or lose 4. And if you make, plus 1.

The intended hand, btw, is Qxxx xxx Qxxx xx, which rolls in 3D, and 
after 2C-P-2D-P-3D or 2D-Apass makes easily.(barring bad rails)

>with Qxxxx xx Qxx xxx he would pass too, not balance, with you again
>making 1-2 spades, while 1H probably rolls in.

                   David writes..
Making 1S when you are in 2S is worth less than defending 1H making.
And 1H is unlikely to make.  Where is the seventh trick if hearts are
5-2 and we lead trumps at every opportunity?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
a: hearts are 6-2.
b: a trump from jxx is rather D-Dummy, huh.  rather than the lead from
AK of spades?
c: clubs are 4-2 with the short hand ruffing.

but more importantly, 1S takes a lot to not make many extras. After
all, with 3-3 spades and the A of C bound to be onside, 4S is ice-cold.
Change the hand to QJxxx of spades and 4 spades IS ice-cold, barring
bad rails.  But I'm not greedy.  I'll take my plus 170 and plus 140
verus their +80 or -50.  Win 7,6,or 3.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>with xxxx Qxx xxx Axxx he would not balance with 1Nt unfavorable, and
>on the lay of the cards you are odds on for 3Nt(4C,1H,2S,2D) and have
>chances even on a mega-passive defence. That is a vulnerable game
>swing versus the probable +50/+100 you will collect in 1H!!

David keeps on nagging about the xxx's
Another misdeal.  If the only hands you can come up with to demonstrate
the value of this bid are fouled boards, I don't have too much to worry
about.

But, again assuming that partner has only 13 cards, it's true that this
sort of hand is a possibility.  When 3NT is right and you pass, you have
a big loss.  Those of us who chose pass knew that.  But it's not all
that likely.  And you will also get to some bad 3NT contracts.  Partner
will bid exactly the same way with Qxx/Qxx/Qxx/Jxxx, and 3NT will have
no play.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the response.
a: he would bid the same way with Qxx Qxx Qxx Jxxx...
   and with Qxx Kxx xxx Jxxx.. now 3NT from his hand is frigid.
              and anyway...
ok. -100. vs +100/+40. lose 3 or 4.  Considering that on the rubin
sequence we end up in 3C. Making 3. But I'll discount that possibility.

hmm. but here's the kicker. with xxxx Qxx xx Axxx, the obvious
intended hand, 3N rolls, while you may, or may not, beat 1H unwacked
for 1 or 2 tricks depending on the distribution of clubs as well as
the defense.

plus 600 versus +50 ... what's that, 12 IMP's or something.  Love to
come back to my partener's bearing that result.

>the only hands where pass is right is when partner holds nothing,
>except for heart length and the opponents have no 7 card fit.

Dave still isn't finished.

What if partner holds nothing except for four spades?  Or nothing except
for four diamonds, but you play clubs because you make a bid which shows
a club suit?  If you could always get to the right contract by bidding,
of course it would be clear to bid.  But you simply can't guarantee that.

                                        David desJardins

Hmm.. wasn't that the heart of the problem... partener has to have 4+
spades for there to be a problem.  Otherwise he bids 1NT, or a minor,
and you are a very happy little boy.  Or he has 5 spades. Or they can
make 1 heart.  Or RHO, Edgar Kaplan, has a controlled psychic and your
constructive auction will get screwed to hell.  

Would you stand so strongly by PASS after P-P-1H-Your call?

if you pass, and partener balances, how will you ever convince him
that you hold the rock of gibralter without any heart cards.

But the vulnerability dismisses any chance of pass being the right
call.. You can never gamble away a 12 imp pickup just to win a couple
by passing.  And defending.


                       Varis
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