From: ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: What is MKO position on the Islands?
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:10:16 GMT
Organization: British Telecom

In article <BvvMwB.GrJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu> yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Ala) writes:

> ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani) writes:

> >You know very well that we are talking not about an invading army
> >ravaging Iran but a claim on a disputed island.  And kicking out a
> >group of defenceless fisherpeople from their home (yes, they are
> >"people" too) is no act of "anti-imperialism".  The Americans are not
> >going to leave the Persian Gulf just because Iran managed to accupy
> >this island.  Quite the contrary, these actions make them more
> >detremine to stay, and the "weak" Arab states more eager to seek their
> >support.  Isn't your argument somehow similar to what Saddam Hossein
> >used in invading Kuwait (no matter how his claim or the Iranian
> >regime's in this respect were/are valid)?  And we all know the result
> >of that, don't we?

> I did not call for invading any part of a country neither I called
> for expulsion of poor people.  The great and Minor Tonbs are
> uninhabited.  There are no natives there and of course there is
> no water.  There are a few Navy posts there and with a few soldiers
> gaurding the island.  The island of Abu-Musaa is in two parts.
> One part of the island is the Iranian Navy installations and the other
> part is the natives who are mostly if not all Arabs.  The strategic
> significance is with Tonb's.  Abu-musaa's significance is only for
> providing support for any possible force moved into Tonbs.

Thank you for explaining for us the "significance" of these islands.
We were talking about Abu Musa and you accept that it has "natives who
are mostly if not all Arabs".  

> No doubt it is in the interest of Iran to have control over the Persian Gulf.

No doubt about that either.  The same is even more true if it could
have control over the Indian Ocean - and far behind, I suppose.

> This is our main trade channel and for thousands of years we have been
> using this channel and we will for a long time.  The United Arab Emarates
> came into existance no so long ago.  Before that there were no government.
> There were sheikhdoms.  The borders are not still defined.  

I am sure there are historical documents to support all these too.  As
is the case with most conflicts in most parts of the world.  It seems
that you simply dont want to understand that a) no aggressor ever
invades another land without some (historical, geographical and/or
social) excuse, and b) none of these reasons justify the use of force
and continuing withe cycle of wars and hostilities over disputed lands.

> A few days
> ago there was a border clash between Saudis and Qatari border patrol in
> which Saudis killed three Qataris (imagine what would happen if this has
> happened between Iran and Qatar?).  

I can imagine you would come up with similar ulrtra-nationalistic
slogans as you used in this case, and I would again argue for
international arbitration.  No surprises in that.

> Therefore these Shiekdoms cannot
> calim something they never had.  There are concrete historical evidences
> that these islands have been part of Iran for centuries.

The same is true of large parts of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central
Asian Republics, Iraq etc etc.  So what?  Go on a expanding spree,
using force?  You must have a big reserve of worthless human lives to
spare.  I have none.  

> It seems to me that your siding with Arabs on this issue is because
> you are trying to embarras IRI to settle your differences with
> this government.  

No Sir.  There are bigger issues at stake.  I have no personal or
political quarell with the IRI regime.  If I am attaking them, it is
only because they have no respect for human rights - and their right
to life in particular.  The same principle is behind my opposition to
the use of force for disputed lands which would very likely lead to
war and slaughtering of human lives.  And for your information, I had
the same position when the Shah took a similar action in 1971.  And by
the way, your effort at "personalisation" of the argument is indeed
commandable.

> Considering the small population of the Abu-musaa and the fact that
> no one lives on the other two islands the arguement for the well
> being of POOR FISHERMANS does not seem that significant knowing that
> these people would probably not benefit from being with shaky Arab
> states on the margin of PERSIAN Gulf.  

You are very humble in patronising other nationalities, sir.  You may
also find that this sort of ideology is very popular with all armies
of the great powers who rampage smaller nations to "free their
nationals from their shaky governments and give them the nationality
of the super nation/race" etc.  You may see a lot of these in history
books (that is those parts of history which are not exclusively
concerned with the claim of Iran to this or that island) and in the
contemporary world too.

> If I said something with regard to defending the land is because
> I thought it is SO obvious that anyone belong to a nation should
> go to the defense of the territorial integrity of that nation.

Sorry if I disturbed you by questioning such a "SO obvious" thing.  It
is just you assume first a disputed island as yours, and then lambaste
"ANYONE WHO DOUBTS THIS" demanding that they " SHOULD REEVALUATE
HIS/HER ATTACHMENT TO IRAN".  No sir, you have no right to decide who
is attached to Iran and who isn't.

> This is true all over the world.  It seems like you have questions
> regarding this national duty. But again this is not surprising
> knowing your positions regarding such matters as marriage and
> others.  Your way of thinking is very unconventional and definately
> ouside the main stream.

Thanks for the observation.  Just that you cannot claim that you are
right just because you perceive your ideas as being conventional and
inside the mainstream.  You need better arguments to support your
positions and claims.

> Ala

Let's put people before land.  Then call ourselves true patriots.

-hossein
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian