HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pavlovic-milan@CS.YALE.EDU (Milan Pavlovic)
Subject: Re: Counting in Greek
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:14:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.213841.27931@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu writes:
>>They achieved it. However, being x-socialist republics
>>of the same communist regime the recognition of another x-socialist republic
>>of the same country comes with no real value. Therefore, they're out and
>>now the total is four.
>Indeed, counting in Greek. Sigh, when is this country to grow up?

Kindly refrain from insulting an entire country (nation) when Dr. Efstratiadis
outsmarts you with his euridite analysis and well presented arguments.

>-- 
>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
>"Recreation of source code from design documentation can be costly"
>IEEE Std 1042/1987

Regards,
Milan
===============================================================================
	M A C E D O N I A.....G R E E K   F O R   4 0 0 0  Y E A R S
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.turkish
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Greek communities throughout europe
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:37:59 GMT

senel@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Hakan) writes:

>Panos Tamamidis writes:

>> I have been in Turkey, for about 10 days.  Some people where very
>> friendly, some where neutral, and some where hostile.  Overall, however,
>> most people where very willing to talk to you, and open a discussion.
>> Things can be different in other parts of Turkey (I visited Constantinopolis,
>> only).

>com'on Panos,

>Oh man, he he he he he. Panos has been to Turkiye. Well, well, well.
>As far as I remember correctly, a couple weeks ago, you wrote an article
>which contains the sentence "I wouldn't like to go to Turkey...".
>I am searching for that article. This sentence proves that you haven't been 
>to Turkey Panos. In English we call this situation "LYING". he he he he

 I visited Turkey back in 1981.  That was during the Eastern period
 (in Greek: Pasxa).  

 But, keep searching for that article. You should have organized your
 folder called "Enemies of Turkey for execusion" more neatly :))).
 Also, istead of calling me a liar, check with M.U.T.L.U.
 He defenetly has me in his file.  Heck, after all I was in
 Turkey following the instructions from the Greek CIA :))).

>> One thing that impressed me was the dressings of women (i.e. they were
>> covering their faces), and that there were relatively few women walking
>> in the roads. I was said, that Constantinopolis is the most modern
>> part of Turkey.

>  Your hatred towards Turkiye popped up again. he he he he he. ho ho ho..
>You made my day man. he he he he. Have you dreamed lately? he he he...
>You have never been to Turkey, right? They were covering their faces ha?
>he he he. Were they walking up side down as well ha? he he he he..
>Panos Panos Panos, you and I know quite well that you have never been to
>Turkey ho ho ho ho ho

 That was in 1981. I saw it.  Why should this mean that I hate Turkey?
 And, who has told you that I hate Turkey? (he, not of course that I love
 it)

>Hakan

 Mutlu Turk, you are still confused, aren't you?


-- 
---> Panos Tamamidis
     University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:8696 soc.culture.europe:8262 soc.culture.yugoslavia:8653
From: lambri@ifi.unizh.ch (Dimitrios Lambrinos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Counting in Greek
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:45:06 GMT
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science


In article <1992Sep9.213841.27931@enea.se>, sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
> efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu writes:
 
> >They achieved it. However, being x-socialist republics
> >of the same communist regime the recognition of another x-socialist republic
> >of the same country comes with no real value. Therefore, they're out and
> >now the total is four.
> 
>
> Indeed, counting in Greek. Sigh, when is this country to grow up?
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
				    *****************************
				          Pardon?

Is this your level of thinking?
Has Greece (as country,people,culture) done anything against you (as individual
or as coundry,people?) ?
To be honest I don't share Serafim's ideas, but I'll never
accept anyone insulting my country and my people.
You probably need another 5000 years of history to understand
why is that, but nevermind you can give a try.



> -- 
> Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
> "Recreation of source code from design documentation can be costly"
> IEEE Std 1042/1987

Dimitrios

Just a Cretan (Greek ofcource and not Egyptian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: secsu@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ralph O. Clark)
Subject: Greek dialects (was Re: Independent Slavo-Macedonia)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 14 Sep 1992 23:07 EST  

In article <1992Sep11.130935.148@ifi.unizh.ch>,
lambri@ifi.unizh.ch (Dimitrios Lambrinos) writes...
> 
>Potes tha ka potes tha kaaaaaaneeiii xasteriaaa
>epoteeeees thaaaa fleeeeee-variiiiisi, potes tha flevarisi
>naaa paro toooo, na paaro to ntoufeki mou.
                                   ^^^
Isn't that supposed to be "ntoufechi" ? At least, when Xylourhs sings it!
I don't know how you represent the
sound of "ch" in Cretan dialect. In Cypriot, it would be written
"ntoufets'i", although a Cypriot would actually say
"toufekki" (small explosion on the double k). My understanding is that
in Turkish, at least as spoken on Cyprus (not that I've actually heard any),
"t", "p", and "k" are pronounced more as they are in English or German 
(with the small explosions), rather than as in most European languages
(French, Spanish, Italian, Greek, Russian, ...?). Thus, in Cypriot
dialect, Turkish loan words are written (and pronounced) with the following
equivalencies:
         Turkish            Greek
         _______            _____
            b                 p
            p                 pp
            g                 k
            k                 kk
            d                 t
            t                 tt
            c                 ts' (pronounced "ch", without aspiration)
            c hacek           tts' (with aspiration)
             (here hacek means the upside-down caret ^ used with some
              Turkish letters. I don't know what the Turks call it)
These last two sounds are typically unpronounceable to a "mainland" Greek,
except maybe for some dialects (I only speak for Cypriot), and are replaced
by "tz" (pronounced "ndz") and "ts".

In Cypriot, the shifts "ki" --> "chi" and "ke" --> "che" are basically
reserved for Greek words (kai --> ts'ai, kitrino --> ts'itrino, etc.)
Apparently in Cretan dialect(s), it is also extended to Turkish loan words.

I hope I'm not breaking "omerta" by revealing any secrets of the
Greek <--> Cypriot translation rules 8-).

>Na katevo na katevo stooon pirgo to lefko.......ftouuu! den kolaei.
> 
>This is 100% greek (cretan)

Except that "ntoufeki" is borrowed from Turkish 8-).

In Cypriot, there are also words borrowed directly from Arabic.

> 
> 
>Alaxe h marigo kai ebale ta rouha aloiws.
>        slavoi                    apo oloklirotikoi slavoi to pezoun twra
>                                  oi kaumenoi ftwhoi makedones	dhmokrates
>                                  pou tous adikoune oloi kai propantos h istoria.			                               
>                                   
> 

Ralph
pantremenos me kypraia
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: lolonis@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Panagiotis Lolonis)
Subject: Re: Goce Delchev renamed !!!(Was: Re: MACEDONIA FOR THE MACEDONIANS !!!!
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 06:31:29 GMT

>lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov) writes:
>>      @    LONGLIVE     'VMRO' GOCE DELCEVSKI 1903

>Hey, do not insult the memory of Goce Delchev by renaming him !!!
             ^^^^^^                               ^^^^^^^^
It seems, afterall, that Greeks are not the only people who become upset when
names are used improperly!

>Luben

Panos Lolonis
U. of Iowa

(Other nationalities who suffer from the "name-sensitivity" syndrom:

       Germans: about ECU (the european currency)
       British: about "Malvinas"
       Albanians: about Northern Epirus
       Turks: about Constantinople, and Kurds ("mountain Turks")
       Chinese: about Taiwan
       Israelies: about Judea - I am not sure about this one
                  but I am certain they get upset when Palestinians and the
                  rest of the Arabs call an area under Israeli control
                  with its Arabic name.
       Arabs: about Judea -see comment above
       Polish: about "East Germany" -when Germans speak about "East Germany"
               they in fact mean ... West Poland 

 I must stop for now because the system is going to shutdown for back-ups
 However, additions and modifications to this list are welcome)
From: rsakella@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Confusions...
Date: 13 Sep 92 22:34:35 GMT

In a previous article, I wrote something about the confusions that some 
people want to create on the history of Macedonia. And I observed how 
these people use the name Macedonia in order to imply a relation
between the x-Yugoslavia's "People's Socialist Republic of Macedonia"
and the use of the name Macedonia since antiquity. Asking if such
a relation exists, in <4063@keele.keele.ac.uk> Mr. Andy Fear 
(cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk) replied positively :

>Yes 

Since, the same answer has been given by Mr. Gligor Apoleski in 
his version of history posted a few weeks ago, let's remember what 
Mr. Apoleski says on the questions that Mr. Fear has on the language 
that the ancient Macedonians spoke...:

\begin{enjoy}
--   But why do the tombstones of Philip and the rest have Greek
--inscriptions? They are not written in Greek, but in Macedonian!
--The Greek alphabet was derived from the Macedonian alphabet
--(over 50 lettters). In turn, the Phoenician alphabet was derived
--from the Greek alphabet, only without the vowels. Arhaeology
--(Egyptian-Phoenician-Greek-Macedonian) would be ridiculous.
--After all, how do you derive "alpha-beta-gamma" from
--heiroglyphics? Even the Latin alphabet comes from the dialect of
--the Ancient Macedonian tribe of Latinnia.
--...
--Published in Australian Macedonian Herald, 19th August 1992.
\end{enjoy}

Mr. Fear, there is a lot of work on the history of ancient Macedonia
and people who are interested in can consult it. However, comparing 
with the inscriptions that have been found in Roman Britain is totally 
irrelevant. The inscriptions in Macedonia refer to the tombstones 
(and not only) of the kings of an independent city-state, and the 
inscriptions in Britain refer to a period when the island was occupied... 


Regards,
                         rizos    (...confusions continued...)
From: lourakis@csd.uch.gr (Manolis Lourakis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Article concerning Greece in the Spectator
Date: 15 Sep 92 09:03:50 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Crete HELLAS


  I suppose that some of you read an article by Noel Malcolm,
published in the Spectator on the 15th of August.Among other things,
Malcolm accused Greece of being the "new bully in the Balkans".
Patrick Leigh Fermor,a British who served with the Inteligence in
Greece during W.W. II,replies to Malcolm's lies and accusations in
an article published in the Spectator on the 12th of September.

I believe that everyone really interested in figuring out what's
going on between Greece and the republic of Skopje should go
through this article.Perhaps they will find it easier to accept
facts stated frequently by Greeks in this list,when they are 
stated by a nongreek....

M. Lourakis,
C.S. dept. , Univ. of Crete,Greece.
From: rsakella@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: paranoia and relevanc
Date: 6 Sep 92 15:57:26 GMT

schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
>Hmm, let me make a try. The Slavs that came into the Balkans were
>soon to be romanized and for almost 800 years they were citizens 
>of the empire. Now, in the eastern roman empire the influence of
>the hellenic civilization was enormous. But this exact influence
>(on the east mediterenean) was made possible only after the conquests
>of the Great Alexander and the short lived hellenistic kingdoms. In
>fact, the christian religion became something more than a jewish
>heresis because of the greek speaking jews that were leaving in
>the greek speaking towns all over eastern mediteranean. Of course,
>the above don't show the continuity, rather the common heritage 
>of the Balkan peoples.

The observation for the common heritage of the Balkan peoples is 
absolutely true. Unfortunately, today's people often interpret history 
according to current day's standards believing that the concepts 
of the nation-state and/or the national consciousness were always existing.
The example of the eastern roman empire, which survived for more than a
thousand years, is very characteristic; while the empire was strongly 
influenced by the ancient Greek heritage which together with the christian 
principles created a separate tradition, actually the empire was an amalgam 
of different nations. And even during the late 18th century, Rigas Feraios 
was dreaming a Balkan federation where all the inhabitants of the peninsula 
(regardless of their nationality) would have equal rights.

The creation of nation-states was historically necessary. According to that,
Greece was very lucky that from the lates 20s had been nationally integrated;
The Minor Asia catastrophe resulted in a higly homogeneous state with only
a small part of Greeks living outside it. And certainly Venizelos' idea
for the obligatory exchange of populations, though a little inhuman, was 
absolutely correct. Unfortunately, the same didn't happen for all the
Balkan states; we face the consequences today...

However, I am optimistic, believing in a future where state borders will
not separate peoples... It seems that the current trend leads towards
a similar situation; but until then I think that sometimes we have to "play"
according today's rules...

>					 Bye,
>					Yannis.
Xairetismoys,
--rizos
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.turkish
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Auto to paidi... [was Re: Independent Slavo-Macedonia]
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:59:52

In article <1992Sep6.081034.21575@eecs.nwu.edu> efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu (Serafim Efstratiadis) writes:

   ...Dev jerw av o Makrakns exei kaveva logo va mnv eivai filellnvas
   alla fil/ellnvas dev eivai. Dev mporei va jerei kaveis ti krubei
   picw apo tnv yuxrn "logikn" tou. To paidi icws va qelei va bgalei
   t' apoqumeva tou kai katebazei oti gouctarei xwris va tov
   evdiaferei av qigei tnv ellnvikn pleura tou qematos n` tous
   Ellnves.

Fenete oti diafonoume gia to skopo tou group.  Esi kai o Kouvatsos to
vlepete san propaganda.  Profanos auta pou grafo den einai propaganda
elliniki, giati ego ton vlepo san syzitisi anihti kai ilikrini.  Mporo
na sas po pantos oti san propaganda ta arthra sas einai mallon
apotihia -- opos vlepoume ap'ta arthra ton mi-ellinon, ta diafora
arthra gemata vrisies einai eksisou gelia os ta arthra tou `Mutlu',
kai kata ti gnomi mou kanoun perisotero kako gia ta `public relations'
tis Ellados para ta dika mou, pou prospathoun na exetisoun ta themata
me `psihri logiki'.

Telika, to zitima tou na eimai i ohi filelinas den endiaferi poli
kosmo.  Anti na hanete tis energies sas sto na me vrizete, giati tote
den apantate sto periehomeno ton arthron mou?

	-s
From: cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Dialects (was Re: Confusions...)
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:52:31 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <7298@charon.cwi.nl> dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) writes:
>
>One remark here.  There is no linguistic difference between dialect and
>language.  Could you please elaborate on what you mean by dialect as
>distinctive from language?

That there are rules that can convert from one dialect to another of a
language. Of cource, the rules won't be absolute as there will be
exceptions. Also, each dialect might have words that are particular to
it, or words that are considered archaic by the other dialect.

Example: To convert from standard Greek to the Greek Cypriot dialect,
the rules are the following:
1. Replace chi before the sounds of "eh" and "e" by sh.
2. Replace kappa before the same sounds as above by tzh.
3. Pronounce double consonants thick.
There are exceptions to the rules as Cyrpiots tend to prounounce on a few
occasions single consonants as double and vice versa. Also, rules #1 and
#2 become less and less absolute. Finally, the Cyprus dialect uses some
archaic verbal forms, some archaic words, and some words peculiar to it.
Examples: skylos (dog) is pronounced skyllos, or shyllos
          kallitechnis (artist) is pronounced kalitechnis
--
Constantinos A. Caroutas

"It's easy to make mistakes when others will be held responsible."
From: by403@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: re: he's baaaack
Date: 7 Sep 1992 21:13:21 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


zaphiri@zoro.cis.temple.edu (Zaphiris Christidis)

> While testing the newsfeed at zoro.cis.temple.edu, I came across the following
> test-article:
> 
> # From cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!..!uunet!anatolia!zuma!system 
> # Article 22108 of alt.test:
> # Path: cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!..!uunet!anatolia!zuma!system
> # >From: system@zuma.uucp (SYSTEM 0PERATOR)
> # Newsgroups: alt.test
> # Subject: testing
> # Message-ID: <eT6mqB1w164w@zuma.uucp>
> # Date: 5 Sep 92 18:42:25 GMT
> #
> # news feed
> 
> 1) The "path:" is very interesting!!!. "!uunet!anatolia!zuma!system". 

"Scary" would be a better world; But we can all see that "Turkiye Elektronik
Haber" is dream-teaming the Usenet world; no more wimpy feeds from places in
the midwest or upper midwest (:-). Either we get the best or we don't.

> 2) Does "zuma" exist in the UUCP tables?

Probably not; anatolia does not exist either. Like they expect mail or something?

> 3) We all know who is using "anatolia". It seems it is feeding off uunet now.

A scarier question; Feeding off Michigan.com (RIP) cost a few dollars a
month, maybe, say, 20, 30. Something that a poor grad student in the
upper midwest can afford.  How the <expletive deleted> can
what's'his'name afford a feed off UUNET? I know  COMPANIES who have
balked at the cost. 

So, anatolia boys (cosar, mutley, mystik, et al), who's bankrolling ya? 

> 4) For those who think that 'argic' has gone on a labor day pic-nic, think
>    again. 'argic' is labouring to use real news-feed this time.

Calm down, folks. I remember uunet's previous life, seismo.css.gov. UUnet has
always been cool and I doubt they'd tolerate the stuff anadolu/zuma (what the
HELL does zuma mean?) got away with in the past...

> 5) Don't let the uid of "SYSTEM 0PERATOR" fool you.

Actually based on the postings of the ranks in the posting house (now renamed)
SYSTEM OPERATOR is a rather low rank (reboots zuma 5 times a day, ...)

> 6) He is baaaa-aaaack!!

'Bout 'ing Time. I was REALLY getting bored....

Commentary (slipping in Andy Rooney attire): Folks, how much more of these are
we going to see? Here we have grownups spending BIG MONEY (we're not talking
$20 a month now, make that $200+) to post their stuff. Who is really behind
this? 

I just don't get it... Either that or the University of Minnie Mouse is really
paying well... 

Spiros
(not really in cleveland; if you don't know my address you should'nt reply anyway)
From: bunny@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Marsh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Greek communities throughout Europe
Keywords: travel, varying opinions
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:12:44 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana

I'm new to this board and have a few questions/comments regarding Greek
people and their attitudes toward people new to their communities throughout
Europe.

I lived for a time in the Netherlands as well as in Germany (The
northwestern region) in the mid-80's.  Being fair I fit in well with the
"typical" crowds in both countries and the fact that I was foreign became
obvious only when my accent was noted.  Even then I was usually deemed
British or northern Italian, depending on whether or not I spoke English.

I found very quickly that most of the Greek people whom I met were quite
receptive to me, and I began to search them out wherever I went.  The fact
that I adore things Greek and was nearly married to a young Athenian once
may have had something to do with this.  :)

The overwhelming majority of Turks whom I met were, if not openly hostile,
at least delicately veiled in their contempt of me.  I was never conscious
of having made a distinction between Turks and anyone else, so I'm not quite
sure where the fault lay.

I realize that this is a gross generalization, and I assure those reading
this that no "racism" is implied; but the difference between the acceptance
I felt in Greek communities and the resentment I received from the Turks,
not to mention the fact that I was foreign in both the Netherlands and
Germany (and the US wasn't overly popular while I was there), made me even
more of a grecophile than I already was.

Does the Greek culture promote overt care of young women in general?  The
atmosphere of family that I felt among almost all the Greeks whom I met
would seem to bear that out.  Are there differences socially between the
Greek people and other nationalities of which I might not, as a US citizen,
be aware?  Could it have been that my "whiteness" was offensive to those
Turks who seemed automatically hateful toward me, or was their resentment
coming from the fact that I, as a foreigner, was considered to be more
like the Germans and Dutch than they were as Gastarbeiter?

Any responses would be appreciated.  Spiridon was much more like the men in
the US than any of the other Greek men I met/knew, so his attitude was not
"typical" of the Greeks I met in Europe.  As a result I know much less about
the Greek culture/societal responses than I would like.

One last thing - if anyone, especially from Greece or from a "traditional"
Greek background would like to correspond with me, I would be very happy to
make new friends and learn more about what is, to me, a very special group
of people.

Thank you,

Tracy Flynn-Marsh
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:8816 soc.culture.yugoslavia:8683 eunet.politics:1312