HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fsdhp@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: M&M, antisemitism, &c.
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:16:27 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

About Master i Margarita:

1) I translated it into English for my own use and my translation agrees almost
entirely with Mira Ginsburg's, which I think shows hers is a very literal
translation.

2. I haven't read all Ms. Schwarz's post's on anything but Bulgakov.  I have to
say I got much of the same out of reading Master i Margarita as she did. She
does not seem to be insane like Hasan Mutlu.  And even if she is a potential
communist (after all, she didn't shoot her dad or turn him in to the FBI as she
should have), so what? Is she saying the Jews killed 2.5M Germans and Poles?
Where's the comparison?

About anti-semitism and the Russian soul:

1.  I go round and round on this issue because I have a lot of friends who are
Jewish but also some Arab and Palestinian friends. Discussions with Zionist
friends convinced me that anti-semitism means only you refuse to agree with
them even when they are obviously wrong. I no longer take it seriously, and
they don't either. In fact for some people it is an article of faith that "...
in the warmest of hearts, there's a cold place for the Jews ...", so the best
course is to admit that you and your favorite authors and most-admired
political figures are anti-semitic by definition, and go on from there.
Actually, there are two kinds of anti- semitism (narrowly defined as being
anti-Jewish): One is the sort that angry non-Jewish losers get into.  I think
Nietzche had good things to say against that sort, more convincing because free
of cant. The other kind is this bogus "anti-semitism" which has to be searched
for with a magnifying glass. If you are bored and feeling cruel, when someone
accuses you or someone you admire of "anti-semitism(TM)", hit back by looking
for anti- (your own ethnic identity) in what they say or someone they like.
Example: I am of German, British, Indian and French ancestry, living in Alaska,
so I would say "I refuse to honor such an obviously anti-French obsessed
racist, who expresses admiration for the notorious German-hater ___________,
with    the dignity of a reply. Furthermore _____'s reply shows an
insensitivity to  the plight of native Americans and an often pathological
Anglophobia. Also, ___ does not live in Alaska, so ___ can hardly be expected
to understand our specific problems and viewpoint." I.E., you can have fun with
this nonsensical topic, or get ulcers trying to reason with it. 

2. There's obvious similarity to this in the idea of the Russian soul. But I
also think it is a God-given right of each nationality (Russians, Jews, Turks,
Estonians, whatever) to feel special. One of those romantic illogical  things
that are to be enjoyed, not comprehended rationally. If you have a Russian
girl/boyfriend, it adds romance to think you are getting in contact with some
sort of enigmatic Russian soul. Also maybe spirits with Russian souls choose to
be born in Russia, even though the food is better in France - who knows?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Nordic ESTONIA? (Was: Cut the crap
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:01:25 GMT


: > 
: >       You're completely avoiding the question of present-day
: >       violations of fundamental human rights by the Estonian
: >       Government and hiding behind the veil of Estonian history
: >       & Sovietization.  You apparently have nothing to say on
: >       the subject, so why not blabber away about family values?

You are given so much facts about what is going on in Estonia that
I do not mind repeating them daily if you are not able to read even
earlier messages. I am very glad that there are at least some Finns
and a Swede on the net who are well informed so that the russian propaganda
at least gets some counter facts. Who had by the way believed
some years ago that from USA is delivered russian propaganda!
So the world is changing. You know  I have much less to do that just
repeat daily things which seem to be for the russians impossible
to understand. For some russians I would like to add.
: > 
: >       Big f***ing deal, Jarmo.  So they've left a statue
: >       of Lenin untouched?  And what of it?  At least Lenin's
: >       government recognized the independence of Estonia, despite
: >       the fact the Yudenich used it as a base of operations against
: >       Petrograd during the Russian Civil War.  And think about
: >       what you're implying anyway!  Even if every single Russian
: >       in Estonia is a Communist, which is highly improbable, you
: >       seem to insinuate that they should be deported to Russia
: >       on the basis of their political beliefs!?  With supporters
: >       like you, Democracy needs no detractors.

So you make the conclusion that Iam for expelling the russians
from Estonia. Totally wrong! I am not.
: > 
: > 
: >       No, he's assimilated your notions of democracy
: >       quite well.  BTW, do YOU really believe your own words
: >       when you refer to Estonia as a "nordic democracy?"
: > 
The laws of Estonia are very well comparative of those in Scandinavia
concerning citizenship etc. If the conditions of life and society is not
reached the same level yet is an other thing. 
I recommend joining Tuglas Society, a society promoting estonian culture.
From there you can get mote facts. I have not time to rewrite estonian
laws on the net because I am not paid for it and I have my job to do.
Jarmo
: > 
: 
: > -- Eduard Wiener



Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: What's Rakhov like?
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 04:28:06 GMT

While I am in Russia, I'll be attending a physics conference in Rakhov,
which (as of the printing date of my atlas) is near the Romanian
border of Ukraine in the Carpathian mountains.

Has anyone out there been to this place? What's it like?

How about the train trip from Moscow to Rakhov - any warnings or
suggestions? It sounds like a real adventure. I hope to stop
in Kiev for a day or two, to do Bulgakov-related sightseeing.
Any suggestions for that as well?

-patricia@cco.caltech.edu
From: mmarkish@FEDS46.PRIME.COM (Mark Markish x2799)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Plody prosvescheniya
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:52:29 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

| >>From: "Yury M. Mukharsky" <MUH%PHYSICS1.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
| >
| >Prixadi zavtra, daragoi, bukva `BE' uchit' budim!
|
| To-to ja ne mog ponjat', otkuda u leschinera takaja erudicia,
| a on okazyvaetsja v nachl'noj shkole prepodaet.
|
| Yury

Poor man Yuri seems to be unaware of the "bukva `BE'" legacy...
wish he never were, but who can tell for sure?
From: mmarkish@FEDS46.PRIME.COM (Mark Markish x2799)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: intelligentsia and more
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:11:42 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

| From: Vadim Maslov :
|
| In article <1992Sep15.013239.3418@nas.nasa.gov> bross@splatter.nas.nasa.gov
|  (Bill Ross) writes:
| >There is an interesting article in the September 21 New Republic:
| >"Kitchen debate (Russia's nationalist intelligentsia)," by L.
| >Greenfeld.
|
| Quite the opposite, the article is mean ideological opus
| not worth paper (net bandwidth) on which it is printed.

I wholeheartedly concur with Vadim's assessment. - Mark
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: Gogol', holiness, talant, etc.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 16:04:41 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

>When I was asking the original question - virtue vs. talent - I meant
>rather consequences than genesis. For instance,
> - if I have a true talent of dealing dope and not being caught,
>   is there any reason for not implementing it?

Up to you and police. 
You may also have a true talent of feeling what is wrong.
For more information you may look to a lot of books
about/from physics - creators of nuclear arms.
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:19:45 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep4.072539.3173@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>>
>
>1809 Finland fell under a Russian administration after a

Are you sure you have not missed 100 years. Knowing the way people
they are teach in Finnish schools, you know :). Seriously am I wrong
that Finland was taken from Sweden by Russia at the 1700's?

>
>>
>I would like to ask how many years of peace Russia/SU has had during

About same as Germany, France, England or Finland. 

>You seem to not know anuthing about Estonia. 
>The first free elected governemet in the area of former SU you
>call faschist!!!??? I call that soviet propaganda

Was not Hitler free elected? I am not saying that Estonian Goverement
is fascist, I just saying that free election does not imply
anything.

>of the old style. It seems to be weel and kicking.
>To mix into this even Hitler is more ridiculous.
>
>If the estonians try to clean the heritage of communist system =
>nazi system or alike it called ethnic opression, faschism etc.

If by cleaning heritage of communist system they mean cleaning away
russians, with or without killing them I call it this.

>What are the muslims expelling russians from Cenral Asia for you,
>also nazis? For me this all is decolonialization process and

They are, if they are.

>a very normal and the most civilized way it is done until now
>in Estonia where everything goes democratically, people are not

When 70% of the state makes another 30% speak do what they want it is
not called really democratic. Tell me what is the difference between
democratic Estonia and totalitarian USSR? I'll tell you: in democratic
Estonia you may say whatever you want, but you must become Estonian,
in totalitarian USSR you may remain Estonian, but you should not tell
that you want independence. Not that I'm saying that USSR was more
democratic, just difference is less than you pretend (or maybe think).

Here is one old joke: demonstration of workers on red Square, 2000.
Chinese Abram saying to Chinese Sarah: "Slushai, a pri russkih-to
luche bylo, schuritsja ne zastavljali."

>>
>Well  if you look closer  Europe the small countries can offer
>the best standard of living for their citizens than big countries.
>For example Iceland,Finland,Norway etc. you can see that the small size
>seem to be also a factor for the hight standards.

What do you think would happen to this small peacful countries if those
big, armed, awfull empires were not there? I would think you would learn
Coran by now. Or something different.

Yury
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1992 16:06:23 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.11 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <SCS-L%92090810270195@INDYCMS.BITNET>  SCATTONL@snycenvm.bitnet ("Linda H. Scatton") writes:
> Does the contention that it is impossible to understand another culture unless
> you are born into it mean that it is pointless for scholars from one culture to
> study another culture (i.e., its arts, customs, attitudes, beliefs, history)
> and to try to help other "outsiders" understand it, too?   This is the sort of
> xenophobic reasoning that discourages *anyone* outside a culture from attemp-
> ting to penetrate it and ultimately retards human knowledge and progress.  Pure
> -and totally objectionable- nonsense, to my mind.
>                                                     Linda Scatton

Another extreme (and equally dangerous) is to assume that understanding another
culture is very easy, requiring just a couple of movies like "Red Heat" and
"Dr Zhivago". I contend that it takes considerable amount of research before
a person can claim an understanding. Those who assume otherwise tend to
produce "razvesisty-ye klyukvy" as a case likely to be with a book on Russian
culture one of netters here threatens to write.

Oleg
From: BLANCHA@fsu.bitnet
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: adoption
Date: 13 Sep 92 13:55:07 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

Dear Mr. LeChevalier:
(I was very interested in your e-mail concerning the adoption of a
Russian child in Novgorod.  Although, I myself have been to Russia twice
recently, and even to Novgorod, I am afraid that I can not be of much
assistance to you.
(However, I also am interested in adopting a Russian child.  But,
during my last trip there, I inquired about this to a few of my Russian
friends and became discouraged when they told me it couldn't be done.
I am wondering how you found out about this child, since it appears that
you have never been to the orphanage>[D>[D>[D>[D>[D>[D>[Co>[Da>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C
Very
interested in learning about the procedures, both wit the orphanage and
with the government, that one needs to take in order to adopt such a
child.>[A>[A>[A>[A>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[
C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[D>[D>[D>[D>[D>[D>[D>[D>[Ch the orphanage and>[B>[A
>[B>[B>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[C>[CSo, I would be interested in hearing from you if p
your trip and upon your return as well.  If you prefer to write to me
through the mail, which is probably better since my e-mail does not
always work, the address is as follows:
(Michelle Blanchard
(1104 J Greentree Court
(Tallahasse, FL 32304

I would sincerely appreciate any help you could offer me.  Thank you.
From: vadik@cs.umd.edu (Vadim Maslov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Master and Margaret
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:11:22 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Sep8.071638.15463@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>
>M&M has its own peculiar cult in Russia. Fans can be easily
>found near the entrance in Bulgakov's house (the famous apartment 302-bis).
							^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>They use to write on the wals of aforementioned house, and covered every
>bit of free space with graffitti. Typical inscriptions are "Voland, save us!"
>and "Begemoth, return!" (I have seen them :).
>
>Fans spread over whole Russia; I could compare them only with 
>trekkies in America. They are different, though: they are forcefully
>against establishment. Most interesting fact, though, is that they are
>all Satanists. I have spoken with one kid, and he explained me why
>he believes in Satan. He said that God cannot and will not help
>people, but Satan would. Of course, he argumented with quotes from
>Master and Margaret.

Why some people are informed so poorly and post so much?
Almost everybody in Moscow knows that the apartment which is famous
is no. 50 and not 302-bis, and 302-bis (or 301-bis?) is house number.
Da, kvartira nomer 50, kotoraya pol'zovalas' durnoi slavoy.

BTW, Voland and his clique behaviour is too distatnt from what you
expect from Satan. So I think Voland's admirers are not to be called
Satanists. Think of divine trinity -- maybe, Voland is just another
shadowy incarnation of good entity. Let's say even more, good
anticommunist entity.



-- 

Vadim Maslov.
From: vadim@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:43:40 EDT

In article <1992Sep10.113632.25768@cco.caltech.edu>, patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>>  Again the same thing. You put the word "drunken" among "poor
>>ignorant unstable" as having bad meaning. I would never do that.
>>So I guess that "Moskva Petushki" will be impossible to read
>>for you if you sometime want to try it.  
>>-V.
> 
> This is hilarious! You are so PC! I put "drunken" in the exact context
> in which American mass culture see it.
> 
> Drunkeness in itself has no good or bad meaning. My parents were both
> violent alcoholics. It gives a bad meaning to "drunkeness" for a six year
> old child to see her mother drunk and screaming and calling her a whore
> with her wig falling off of her head and her false teeth on the table.
  ....
  Many wonderful lines were deleted (V.) 
  ....
> However in the official version of the Western stereotype of the
> Russian man, he is a drunk in maybe not the worst context but still
> not the best one. 
> 
> -patricia
   
  A ya to dumal chto za russkie pishut ves etot stuff v s.c.s.,
da my zhe prosto pyany. Eto mnogoe iz stuffa obyasnyaet.
  (And I thought who are those russians writing all this stuff in s.c.s.,
we are simply drunk. This explaines the most of the stuff)

The only thing I regret of is the last Christmas, when I and some of
friends were going to try the famous Sveden Vodka "Absolute" we came
to a store and it was bought out by always smarter americans. Why
did they do that for us??? Were they really able to enjoy it as we were?
                                         ( Always kidding  -V. )
p.s. Konechno my ne propali.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: qasama@banach.WPI.EDU (John Grossi)
Subject: Re: E-mail help needed
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:22:16 GMT

In article <1487@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka) writes:
>In article <188b5mINN23l@rodan.UU.NET> avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:
>
>>The only officially approved Internet top-level domains for
>>
>>	.SU	- still serves Russia and other countries except for:
>>	.EE	- Estonia
>>	.LV	- Latvia
>>	.LT	- Lithuania
>>
>>Those countries were the first to acquire UN recognition and tharefore
>>they were the first to get ISO country codes the domain names based on.
>
>The Ukrainian SSR and Belarussian SSR were founding members of the 
>United Nations in 1948(?) .

I think that you mean 1945, which was the founding date of the UN.
I have been compiling a list of country codes from posts to this news
group and from what addresses I see in posts. (The ones from the old
USSR that follow were posted in this group and the source was a swedish daily
svenska dgablat (bad spelling, but it is from memory) and the time was like
May)

(Former USSR)
Armenia      	-AM Azerbaijan   	-AZ Belarus      	-BY
Georgia      	-GE Kazakhstan   	-KZ Kyrgyzstan   	-KG
Moldova      	-MD Russia       	-RU Tajikistan   	-TJ
Turkmenistan 	-TM Ukraine      	-UA Uzbekistan   	-UZ
Estonia      	-EE Latvia       	-LV Lithuania    	-LT
(Former Yugoslavia)
Croatia      	-HR Slovenia     	-SI
(Former czhechoslavakia)
Czechoslavakia	-KP (soon to go)













-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
qasama@wpi.wpi.edu  / V   V OOOO TTTTT EEEE\ Always store beer in a dark place.
Worcester Polytech /_ _V V  O  O   T   EEE  \__ Moderation is for monks.
God save Lazurus Long!/ v   OOOO   T   EEEE    \ Women need no excuse.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: Russian poetry
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 19:20:42 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <2506@cronos.metaphor.com> covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy) writes:
>in article <1992Sep08.141151.24896@watson.ibm.com>, bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) says:
>> 
>[izdevatel'skie repliki v adres Shvarz opushcheny]
>
>Igorek, zatrahal svojej sovkovoj agressivnost'ju!
 ^^^^^^
 Thank you for this; anything else - below :-)

>Che tak zol-to na amerikanok, a?
>Baba kakaja-to ne dala, chto li?
>
>-- 
>  Ivan Covdy, covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com, METAPHOR Inc.,  CA,  USA
> *** People are looking for a Mind somewhere in the Universe,      ***
> *** because on the Earth they've been finding only the Stupidity. ***

1.
Idiots have no nation or sex.

2.
By strange coincidence concentration of idiots whose other attributes
are "American" and "women" is rather high here in s.c.s/t.p.s.
But there are a lot of others.

3.
One of common idiot features  is  mapping themselves to their opponents,
substituting their opponents ideas and logic by their (idiots) 
narrow and primitive generalization.

4.
If something above is not evident enough and/or you have any 
remaining personal questions or insults - feel free to e-mail - 
preferrably to /dev/null.

5.
Considering Ms. Schwarz - there is enough mess in heads of Americans
without her valuable contributions on gay-child-abused Gogol
or Pasternak in underground pit. If you know any example of 
that kind research that is useful to somebody else besides
chronic gossipers or anecdot lovers, I'd be interested to hear.

6.
Right now I believe that Pushkin was right when he said 
that poet is the same but different - with all implications.
Btw, how would like to describe his aggresiveness - there were
no "sovok" as entity that time. Or would you apply your
supposition #3 to him?

	-igor
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: y6eu B ce6e XACAHA! ( was: Re: Russian poetry )
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 13:58:42 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <LEONID.92Sep8111007@thyme.uchicago.edu> leonid@thyme.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev) writes:

>But then they luckily found this poor lady - Ms. Patricia
>Schwarz. For example:
>
>bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>
>>   To became really good follower of Mr. Mutlu, survivor of Armenian 
>>   atrocities, Ms. Schwarz needs to acquire good and long signature,
>>   as long and vague and messed and mostly meaningless as her postings (IMHO).
>>
>>   It's yet an open question if she can pretend to the title "Mutloid of the Year",
>>   - competition is very strong - ...
>
>Well, some of her postings are somewhat unadequate - when she
>manages to find something feministic in Master&Margaret etc.
>But note, that there's nothing offensive for anybody in any 
>of her articles. While most of the followups are. So who is
>Mutlu here? My suggestion would be, if you really need 
>somebody like good old Mutlu to fight with, if you really
>want your life to be a combat instead of life itself, just
>look for Mutlu in yourself. And kill him.

Seems it's time to explain evident.

I don't have anything against Ms. Schwarz personally.
What's more, maybe if I would meet her I'd fall from the love
from first sight (hope it's not very sexist to remember female
that she is women also  - somehow this too quality are coincident :-).
And the feeling that she is survivor (the same word as in "sirvivor
of Auswitz" !) definitely should help.

If she (or somebody else) would be offensive to me
I'd either ignore that or post one little explanation
and propose to go e-mail. I've done that before.

But she was and is very, I repeat, *very* offensive to 
Russian literature and culture. And she didn't understand that.
And she tries to write a book - with that ignorant and offensive
attitude.

I hope you know, the book as itself (as symbol, as idea, etc) is
very different in Russian and US culture. 

And there is more than enough stupid and ignorant books - kind of
"whan I wrote this book I learned so much - but I should learn
much more just to reach understanding of basics" - in US
on Russian culture.

	-igor
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk)
Subject: Re: Bulgakov
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 20:55:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.183019.8979@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>
>I may even be more anti-communist than you are, because I was raised
>by a man who worshiped Stalin from California. He ruled our family with
>terror. He threatened his children with an axe regularly.

  Was he Russian ?  You know, the axe is Russian national weapon :-).

Serega