HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gauthier@ug.cs.dal.ca (Paul Gauthier)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Where to mail-order a rope from?
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:07:46 GMT
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

I am located in the barren wastelands of Canada where rope prices are
insanely high! It costs about $US140 for a standard length rope (about
165' long?). People I know from around here have gone down to the states
and purchased rope for a fraction of that cost. I was wondering if you
rec.climbers could recommend a quality mail order location to order a
rope and some 'biners from. I would be especially happy if you could
recommend them from personal experience, since this will be my first
rope buying experience and I won't know if I'm being suckered or not. :)

In this vein, what is a good all-purpose rope to buy? 11mm? And is the
standard length 165' ?

Thanks for the info,
PG
-- 
  ===========================================================================
                               Paul Gauthier
  cyclist, rock climber, skydiver, computer scientist (...in order of danger)
  Electronic: gauthier@ug.cs.dal.ca  Voice: (902)462-8217  Fax: (902)420-1074
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Please explain the rating system
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:31:11 GMT
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer

In article <1992Aug12.080657.11720@draco.macsch.com> todd@draco.macsch.com (Todd C. Williams) writes:
>I don't think it's that difficult.  Ever read the qualitative descriptions
>of the Richter scale?  Can't we even begin to describe what a *typical*
>5.9 would be?  One example- at what level do overhangs typically begin?

Don't be silly. 
What do Mercury's Lead (Stone Mt, NC), Jean (Gunks) and J Crack
have in common besides the number Nine (and my fingerprints)?

5.0 (Easy Overhang, Gunks - since upgraded to 5.1??)

-- 
And if your hand or foot offend you,         Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
  Cut it off, lad, and be whole;
But play the man, stand up and end you,
  When your sickness is your soul.           AE Housman
From: bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Gunks Shoes?
Keywords: Gunks Shoes
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:05:57 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Aug13.074228.20942@src.dec.com>, murray@src.dec.com (Hal Murray) writes:
|> What sort of shoes to people use at the Gunks these days?
|> 

I'll pontificate some more...

When I climbed in the Gunks I had just moved to New York from Boulder.
I remember doing lots of stuff barefoot (this was in vogue a bit in
Boulder for a time), especially bouldering in the Uberfall area.  The
funny thing was that on lots of stuff I did there, your feet really didn't
make much difference. Yet many of those NY climbers couldn't believe it
(having never walked barefoot in their lives).

So, the moral of the story is - shoes not necessary!  (Yeah, right)

Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)
From: stanford@spark (Adam Stanford)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: shasta
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:02:10 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: spark.berkeley.edu

I'm interested in climbing Mt. Shasta, sometime next month.  My
experience is limited to a lot of trail backpacking trips, and
recently some rock climbing classes, including a snow climbing
class.  So I know e.g. self-arrest techniques, but have little
experience with mountaineering at high altitude.  Can anyone
recommend a route to the top which is (relatively) easy, or an
organization which guides trips to the top?

thanks-
Adam Stanford
Astronomy Department
UC Berkeley
From: luong@naxos.inria.fr (Quang-Tuan Luong)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques
Date: 23 Aug 92 14:06:17 GMT
Reply-To: luong@sophia.inria.fr
Organization: Inria Sofia Antipolis

In article <BtFsEA.E71.2@cs.cmu.edu>, cline+@cs.cmu.edu (Kenneth Cline) writes:

|> PS.  I am not dogmatic about this, but no one has convinced me that
|> body belays are inappropriate.

They are probably appropriate for belaying a second in lots of cases or even 
a leader in moderate climbs, but I would not take it as a good idea to use 
them on harder climbs, unless you are almost sure he will not fall (ice
climbing for exemple, where the frost can make difficult to use a device).
 If a second hangs for 10mn under an overhang you will find
it quit unconfortable to hold him witout any device. As to belaying the
leader, there was extensive testing by UCPA at Sormiou (Calanques, France).
The set-up was the following: a guy was rappeling down with the rope ending
on nothing, above a roof. He was belayed by the top with a lot of slack for
safety, and by the bottom with only one intermediary piece (so that the fall 
factor was relatively high), for the exercice. It was part of UCPA climbing
courses there. The experience showed that in those conditions, even with 
thick clothes (that you don't usually wear in the Calanques, needless to 
say!), it was very difficult for the belayer to stop the fall. Have a try.

Tuan.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Subject: Re: area info. sought;  THE PIE SHOP, NV
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:51:41 GMT


** On Wed, 12 Aug 1992 10:33:44 GMT,
** Jim Vivian 
** from the organization of Montana State University
** who can be reached at: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
** (whose comments are cited below with "Jim> "),
** had this to say in article <0095EF78.794D22A0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>
** in newsgroups rec.climbing
** concerning the subject of area info. sought;  THE PIE SHOP, NV

Jim> Has anyone heard of a small crag known as "The Pie Shop"?  I think it's near
Jim> Reno, NV or near Truckee/Donner.  Please Email if you have infotainment about
Jim> this area -- thanks in advance.  Jim Vivian, Bozeman, MT

It's been a couple of years since I've been there but here's the beta
to the best of my recollection.

Area: South Lake Tahoe, (down by the Tahoe airport)  Lots of
bouldering, with some really good problems.  Farther up the hill is
the main crag with routes from 1-3 pitches.  Check out the latest Lake
Tahoe Climbing Guide (came out not too long ago) yellow cover.  The
area is primarily south facing, so is pretty good in the early spring,
when donner and other areas are still covered with snow.  I was there
in April (for a conference) and this area had little to no snow on the
ground.

A good source of info is Alpenglow/Aspenglow Sports ?(something like
that) on the north side of the lake (basically opposite end from the
Pie Shop area)

hope this helps,
tims

--
tim schneider                       honeywell air transport systems division
ph: 602.436.3078 fax: 602.436.2252   po box 21111 ms k26e2 phoenix, az 85036
email: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  or  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Harold F Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Misleading News Reports (was Amazung week in CA)
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:42:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: vice.10193
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Aug19.183936.10919@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:

>One thing I have learned about newspapers is to ignore the headlines and
>read the article, often they have an entirely different story to tell,
>it seems that rather few people do this.  I wonder if one person writes the
>story, then someone else writes the headlines to emphasize sensational
>appeal.

Of course they emphasize the sensational.  After all they're in the
business of selling advertising and they want to attract as many
readers as possible.  The Headline attracts people's attention.

However, don't think you can trust the article either.  The news
people are more concerned with speed and hype than with accuracy.  I
remember one article (which I may still have a copy of if I can find
it) about a rescue.  According to the paper the victim fell down a
cliff and was rescued by people rapelling over a 200 ft cliff to get
him.  I was on that rescue and in fact he fell in camp and hit his
head on a stump.  (I believe significant quantities of beer figured
in the accident.)  There was no 200 ft cliff, it was about a 40
degree slope with a good trail and enough vegetation that you
couldn't fall more than about 10 feet if you tried.

I've been involved in other events and read news reports about them.
The above example is not an isolated instance.  Most news reports
are not quite that flagrant but they are not very accurate either.

Moral:  Take *anything* in the news with a grain of salt.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Gregory Hill)
Subject: mantle ... or
Followup-To: funny rhymes
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 04:31:07 GMT

>Anyone want to give "Mantle or..." a try?  :-)

Well, not quite that, but here are some variants...

"Mantle this, or eternal bliss"

"straighten your arm, or suffer great harm" 

"press down, or splatter 'round"

ok, I guess that's enough (having just done the crux
mantle on "Athlete's Feat" at Castle rock yesterday,
I am really psyched for this one).

greg
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: kochte@scivax.stsci.edu
Subject: Overhangs (was: Re: Please explain the rating system)
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:31:46 GMT


In article <1992Aug12.080657.11720@draco.macsch.com> todd@draco.macsch.com 
(Todd C. Williams) writes:

[previous other articles deleted for brevity's sake]

>I don't think it's that difficult.  Ever read the qualitative descriptions
>of the Richter scale?  Can't we even begin to describe what a *typical*
>5.9 would be?  One example- at what level do overhangs typically begin?

Welllll, I know of a 5.5 route in Ohio that has a fairly serious overhang
in it, and there are a few 5.4s I've run into with some overhangs, and I
know of a couple 5.2s (!) that have overhangs (one here in Maryland, one
at Seneca Rocks, W Va). I don't know of any 5.1 overhangs, though...  :-)

(so what conclusion can you draw from this bit of data?)  :-)

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: CMSC28@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Mark Hickey)
Subject: Florida Crags
Organization: Motorola
Date: 12 Aug 1992 15:44:50 CDT

Having just moved to Boca Raton because it translates into "Mouth
of rocks" or something like that,
Just moved to Boca Raton cuz it translates to "Mouth of Rocks" or
something like that.... Just can't seem to find any verticality
anywhere.  Maybe that's why no towns here are named Mount anything!
Does anyone out there in the real (i.e. topographically featured)
world know of any indoor climbing in south Florida... or barring
that, would anyone suggest the most cost-effective climbing wall
material supplier?  I'm getting tired of holding my breath and
climbing the walls in my pool (5.2 Max with a deep breath)
From: tk@allegra.att.com (Thomas Kirk)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: refs on building artificial walls
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:38:21 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

I'm interested in references on building artificial climbing walls.
Pointers to published material and folklore would be appreciated.
thanks.

Thomas Kirk
tk@research.att.com
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: amazing week here in CA
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:57:45 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <27142@sophia.inria.fr> luong@sophia.inria.fr writes:
>What were the causes of the accidents ? 

We bailed and went to the Meadows instead.

Basically, the investigations are pointing are going to various "natural"
causes.  Failure of the rock for anchors or just standing there.

The ranger in our area had us read a note which pointed out that six years
of drought have taken their toll on Sierra ice gullies exposing underlying
ablated material.  Recent thunderstorms and warm weather are not allowing
the gullies to freeze at night.  The ice apparently is especially rotten,
and crevaces are opening up on the Palisade glacier (a joke compared to
your area, but technically still a glacier).

One fatality occurred when a refer/car-sized block (depending who you talk
to) just simply fell carrying the human momentary standing on it.  One rescue
team member fell into a crevase during body recovery.  This was at 7 PM on the
standard descent route (this time indicates a slow or late party).

They are still checking on the Cathedral deaths.  I'd have to ask about the
hang gliding fatality (have driven that canyon).

One of the climbs we did in the Meadows also had a fatality some years back:
long unprotected fall (Doug Robinson added a bolt to that route, victim
probably crashed into the ledge down a ways).

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: cline+@cs.cmu.edu (Kenneth Cline)
Subject: Re: emergency techniques (was Re: Cathedral Pk. Accident, Yosemite)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 14:25:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.213427.6180@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> bobh@minaret.hwr.arizona.edu (Bob Harrington) writes:
>
>IMHO, I think hip belays should go the way of Goldline ropes. Sure, they
>were the safest thing going, but belay devices are in general much more
>reliable. Quang-Tuan Luong is right: people should know how to hip belay,
>just in case they have to, and I agree with Liz Bradley: a Munter hitch
>is preferable to a hip belay. But, from some recent postings, I got the impression
>that some people were still using hip belays as a matter of routine. I
>think this is foolish.

Where do you get the information that body belays are less reliable
than device belays?  I have not noticed this in _Accidents in North
American Mountaineering_.  My personal experience is opposite: I have
been dropped once while climbing - and the culprit was using a belay
device.  I think it is foolish that so many climbers reject hip belays
or refuse to use them (and thus waste time) when they are appropriate.

PS (in response to another article):  Most belay devices do provice
dynamic belays.  See the warning letter by Ed Leeper in _Climbing_
regarding the (non-dynamic) GriGri.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Cathedral Pk. Accident, Yosemite
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 21:08:18 GMT
Distribution: usa

>In article <1992Aug18.012617.21434@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>,
>jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton) writes:...
article on shock loading
>>At a time when most belays were on ledges I was taught that
>>the body position was very important in holding falls.  The
>>anchor was always lined up with the potential direction of pull,
>>something which is made difficult with harnesses which have no
>>anchor points in back.

I was taught this too.

>>I am pretty superstitious about belay anchors.  I _never_ lean
>>on them unless I have to, and in such a case I make it more
>>redundant than usual.  I think the reason for this is that I
>>have held many falls without pulling on the anchor, and always
>>operate with my body (and technique) as the first line of
>>defense.  I am therefore also quite confident of unanchored
>>body belay positions when doing 4th class.
>>
>>I now invite you to punch holes in my reasoning.

In article <1992Aug18.161623.3344@morrow.stanford.edu>
AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>I don't think there are any holes to punch.

Frankly, I don't believe there are many holes either.

The fall force must be vectored within the space of all anchor points:
be they solid anchors, legs, or butt.

We have to recognize that the system is far from perfect and a non-zero
probability of failure exists.  You can get shock loads like this
just starting off a pitch.  Many of us will clip into an anchor because
the first few moves are tricky.  Just fall on lead and land on your anchor
(chilling thought).  Saying you will get a third (4th, fifth piece)
in is theoretically idealistic (consider two-bolt belay stations).
[One partner's favorite photo in Meyer's Yosemite Climber is Dale Bard
after he jumared up on a wall anchor consisting of 5 RURPs and blades.]

A good plate belayer should be able to keep up a rapidly moving second.
I don't think this damns plates to leading only [all my belays are
body belays].  And my partners who use plates also know what to do after
dropping their plates.

Yeah, some times the belayer can't keep up.  Then, it's the belayer's
responsibility to communicate that he/she can't keep up.
It only takes a moment, but you'd be alive.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton)
Subject: Re: Gunks Shoes?
Keywords: Gunks Shoes
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:28:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.140557.2926@odin.corp.sgi.com> bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.074228.20942@src.dec.com>, murray@src.dec.com (Hal Murray) writes:
>|> What sort of shoes to people use at the Gunks these days?
>|> 
>
>I'll pontificate some more...
>
>When I climbed in the Gunks I had just moved to New York from Boulder.
>I remember doing lots of stuff barefoot (this was in vogue a bit in
>Boulder for a time), especially bouldering in the Uberfall area.  The
>funny thing was that on lots of stuff I did there, your feet really didn't
>make much difference. Yet many of those NY climbers couldn't believe it
>(having never walked barefoot in their lives).
>
>So, the moral of the story is - shoes not necessary!  (Yeah, right)

I heard they don't even wear _pants_ in the Gunks!

>Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)



John Morton					University of California
jmorton@euler.berkeley.edu			Mechanical Engineering
{decvax,cbosgd}!ucbvax!euler!jmorton		Machine Shop
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Why 5.7 is harder than 5.10 (was ratings)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:24:07 GMT

In article <Aug14.192722.13125@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>,
trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.013729.16775@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>>
>>1) The MAJORITY of people I have met who CLAIMED they could "climb" 5.10
>>never LED 5.10.
>
>I can CLIMB 5.10X!  Pretty bold, eh?
>
When i climb a ladder to clear the leaves from my rain gutters, I
rate that 3.10X.  So there.
From: yeida@sfc.sony.com (Yeida Chang)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Fatal accident on Cathedral Peak (Tuolumne)
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:03:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sony Advanced Video Technology Center


I heard a man and woman from South Lake Tahoe died
after a fatal fall while climbing Cathedral Peak
in the Tuolumne backcountry.  Does anyone have details?
From: Leslie.J.Sonder@dartmouth.edu (Leslie J. Sonder)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: climbing in Wyoming
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:29:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Aug19.212946.22219
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

I will be spending about a month near Greybull,Wyoming (just west of
the Bighorn Mountains) from mid-Sept. to mid-Oct, and and am interested
in knowing about good climbing. Can anyone tell me about nearby
climbing areas (either sport areas or easily accessible traditional
areas)?  Unfortunately my work requirements mean that I will be limited
to one-day trips--i.e. no multi-day trips, no backpacking, etc. I'm
mostly interested in 5.10 and lower grades.

I have heard that there is good climbing near Lander. How far (driving)
is that from Greybull? Are there any local outdoors shops where one can
find out more info?

Also, will cold weather or snow be a problem? Perhaps low-altitude
areas are better that time of year?

Suggestions and comments will be appreciated. Please e-mail to
leslie@asia.dartmouth.edu. Thanks!
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: brodesky@td2cad.intel.com (Michael Brodesky)
Subject: Drilling question, *Note only on cement
Organization: intel corporation
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:49:46 GMT



	I was wondering how other people put up direct aid routes
on cement walls. I have been drilling a  hole, put a bolt in with hanger
climb up on aiders, and dasy chain. Then stepping in the top two
steps drilling another hole.   Are there any other was to do this.

Michael
Still looking for Jug holds. 

--
Michael Brodesky Internet Mbrodesky@sc9.Intel.com
UUCP : {pur-ee,qanad,oliveb,decwrl,hplabs}!intelca!mipos3!td2cad!brodesky
Sally sold sea shells. Ned Needamyer needled his nose on the nose. 
During the week I climb left to right. On weekends I climb up and down.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
From:  (jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu)
Subject: Re: Flashbulbs (was: Public Perceptions)
Organization: haphazard, at best
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 16:46:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.003054.2613@news.Hawaii.Edu>, teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Aug11.125914.25284@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> nelsonm@erc1.ecn.purdue.edu (Mark J Nelson) writes:
> >
> Regarding single-use cameras:


> Remember that the single-use cameras tend to go overboard on the
> "excessive packaging," though, what with the outside box and everything.
> 

> If you would like to take panoramic photos on your hike, but feel
> uneasy about using single-use cameras, I would suggest the RE-USABLE
> panoramic cameras. They are made by Ansco (who?), and the Nature
> Company retail stores sell them for $19.95 (if you can find the same
> camera marketed by Ansco, you can usually get them for about $12.95 or
> so). The quality is about the same as the disposable ones, and cost
> about thhe same at $12.95 as the single-use ones (without the film),
> and it even leaves you with a clear conscience! I carry one with
> me--they take great scenic snapshots or great single-line group shots.
> 
> 
I have ONLY used the FUJI 'one use' for the past five years, and have had NO
complaints.  I can pick 'em up for under $5.00, with rebate, and can get cheap
film developing thru a consumer club.  I have dropped these cameras down
cliffs, in the snow while skiing, off of chair lifts (sorry if you were below me..)
all over the world.  My only complaint is the lack of a telephoto.  Which
I hear is available also.  They claim that the cases are recycled, I certainly
hope so.  These babies are indestructable, and are perfect for backpacking (unless
you plan on taking more than 72 pictures, then its more effcient to carry a
real camera & 3 rolls of film.  But I have photo aversion, I'd rather look/do
than snap photos.  )

Jon jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
===============================
"No breakfast for me today, Mom.  Ski team tryouts.  Can't get on the chair
lift with my nervous stomach.  Last year I had to buy that guy a new hat."  
             -Lane Myer, "Better Off Dead"


Newsgroups: rec.climbing