HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Narrow-minds and Religion
Date: 12 Dec 92 21:47:20 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


	1.  Why is it that, whenever some interesting, possibly
	factual, body of knowledge comes to light, like UFOs or
	astrology or telekinesis, some narrow-minded follower of
	Christian persuasion has to paraphrase the bible and tell us
    	that this knowledge must be false? 

... I would instead wonder why this bothers you?  Any opinion deserves
to be aired, even if its something you don't want to hear.

	As I recall, the Catholic church also tried to execute or at
	least exile scientists of Medieval times who said the earth
	was round, the planets revolved around the sun, and that the
	heavens were perfect and changeless(thereby ruling out the
	possibility of comets and sunspots).

... yes, about 400 years ago, and obviously this should be held
against them for all eternity.  Equally obviously, the Church still
does this; I read about people being excommunicated for teaching that
comets and sunspots exist every day.  Shocking.


	2.  Why should we as a modern society keep blindly following
	the church,

... I wasn't aware that we were.  (Its not clear to me whether you are
attacking Christians in general or Catholics in particular; since the
Catholics are the only ones you mention by name...)  Certainly the US
has never been a particularly Catholic-Church-oriented country;
Protestantism is more the rule.  (Perhaps you should look up the
Reformation to see how the Protestants got their start...  You might
also check to see how many subsections of Protestantism there are.)  

   In any case, I would argue that "we as a modern society" do not
blindly follow any church at all.

	... who have tried to violently snuff out scientific enquiry?

... Although I agree it is a perfectly rational position to argue that
the Church should be ground into the dust for things done 400 years
ago, I'm not so sure its feasible.


	3.  Do you think all of the strange UFO-linked happenings
	simply did not exist, like the church ignoring the comets
	people saw in the sky?

... I would point out that the Catholic Church was not alone in
thinking this; perfectly ordinary scientists used to claim that
meteors did not exist, as you may recall.   Indeed today, the Catholic
Church takes (to my knowlege) no position on lights-in-the-sky at all.
The US Government, on the other hand...

	How can a man in a primitive village in Pakistan possibly see
	and describe in detail the EXACT SAME alien being a man from
	Detroit does?  Obviously, SOMETHING is happening here.

... please tell the US Government about this.  Not only would they be
interested in hearing it (try AFOSI first), but they'd be in a
position to do something about it.  Interestingly enough, the Church
wouldn't do anything to you, but the Government might put you in jail.
Weird, huh?

Charles

PS - I am not an "anti-UFO", like Boris Yelsin, I keep my feet on the
ground, and keep reaching for the czars...
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: are you people for real?
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 06:52:51 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

The last time I checked I was for real.
John Winston.
From: Jim.Atwell@f851.n800.z3.fidonet.org (Jim Atwell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Opinions about the FAQ f
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 14:13:02

In a message to All <07 Dec 92 12:59> An1347@Anon.Penet.Fi wrote:

 An> From: an1347@anon.penet.fi
 An> Organization: Anonymous contact service

 An> My opinions about the FAQ:

Hello,
Firstly, I have not seen, and do not have access to the FAQ. 
However, in response to some of your points;

 An> And, a very common mistake is found too many times in the
 An> text: The word UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object. 
 An> As soon as someone knows what it is, let's just say it's 
 An> an alien spacecraft, it becomes an Identified Flying Object,
 An> that is IFO. UFO need not to be an alien vessel, it might
 An> be a weather balloon or something like that.

EXACTLY! So there is at least one other person in the world whom 
understands that.

 An> On whole, the FAQ is very one-sided. It tries to
 An> convince people that aliens exist. 

That's OK, because the FAQ relates to this newsgroup. However, any 
attempts to convince, should consist of rational factual evidence. 
Having not seen the FAQ I cannot comment on it's rationality. 
(But I can guess!)

 An> There is no
 An> room for skeptic opinions. And the list says that
 An> all skeptics are trying to do is to prove that
 An> aliens don't exist. This is totally wrong. Anyone
 An> recall what skeptic stands for? Or what skeptics do?

Too true! In this world there are belivers, skeptics, and non- 
belivers. All unbiased researchers would have to occupy the middle 
(_true_ skeptical) ground.

 An> And if you want to say why or why not you believe in alien
 An> visitors, please post to this newsgroup or mail directly
 An> to me. You can find the address in the header of this post.

Also we need to clarify just what _alien visitors_ encompasses.
Are we only talking about extra-terrestrials? Or can we include 
terrestrial beings from other dimensions, or beings from Earth 
that for some other reason we are not normally aware of? Would we 
include these possibilities on the basis that they are _alien_ to 
our normal frame of reference?


 An> And remember,
 An> I'm not saying alien life doesn't exist, just that I don't
 An> believe all I'm told.

Congratulations, you are one of the few in this group that appear 
to have a brain!


Regards,
          Jim Atwell          |  UFO Research (SA) Inc.
                              |  PO Box 281
          Fidonet             |  Blair Athol SA 5084
          3:800/851           |  Australia


___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

 * Origin: Biz-Nice! S.Oz Business BBS! 4 Lines 08-269 7029/7809 (3:800/851)
From: kellym@wowee.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Kelly Martin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Stollman, Winston, et al.
Date: 18 Dec 92 13:54:50 MST
Distribution: world
Organization: Not an Organization
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <1992Dec15.140619.10779@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com writes:
>
> In article <1992Dec15.065737.16406@news2.cis.umn.edu>, gslars@staff.tc.umn.edu () writes:
>
> |>Doesn't it seem a little strange that there's a John Winston to pick
> |>up where Gary Stollman left off?  Is it just a coincidence that their
> |>postings are better (gramatically) and more carefully written than those
> |>of anyone else?  All of you folks who are constantly ranting about
> |>Winston could be the most gullible of all.  What I'm saying, of course,
> |>is that perhaps these postings are put there simply to serve as objects
> |>of derision.  In that respect, they serve their purpose well.
> |>(My apologies to both Winston and Stollman if they are sincere, but you
> |>can't blame it if some of us are a little skeptical.)  Too bad there
> |>isn't a moderated version of this topic.
>
> Well first of all John Winston is a spelling imbecile.  His grammer sucks and
> he couldn't spell is way out of the sixth grade.  Gary Stollman on the other
> hand has excellent grammer and spelling abilities.  In the past when someone
> tried to mimic him it was easy to spot just by looking at the spelling and
> grammer usage.

If you were going to make up a personality, and everyone already knew of
your distinct writing style, wouldn't you purposely spell words
incorrectly? And wouldn't it be almost obvious, because they are spelled
wrong in a non-intuitive sense (ie., even a bad speller would not usually
spell a word that way)?

--
%"Vhuuut, you donna' like'a my zooop?"-Fred Flintstone, impersonating a chef
% kellY Martin  UUCP:kellym@wowee.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca  (1:342/53.5@fidonet)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (gvb@acd4.acd.com)
Subject: Re: Trip on Space Ship 3.
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:04:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.164749.10909@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes:
>> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (<gvb@acd4.acd.com>) signs:
>
>
>>Gregg.
>
>>-- 
>>        Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research 
>>    812-442-5354 (Voice)(24 hours/7 days) or e-mail me at gvb@acd4.acd.com
>>               All information will be strictly confidential.
>
>Be careful, here, son, for your "serious" "research" is nothing more than
>demonology. And demonology, even when done with the most pure and noble
>intentions, inevitably leads the researcher into the trap of demon worship
>and eternal damnation. Even if you somehow manage to resist the spiritual
>trap the demons that you are researching will take out their frustration
>on your family and friends.
>
>I am more and more convinced that ALL of the UFO sightings are the work of 
>demons. Demons are not stupid; they know the kind of thing that attracts
>the interest of modern Americans. They KNOW that by involving space and
>high-tech in their deceptions, they will fool people into thinking they
>are finding something natural, wonderful, and new, when what they are
>really finding is the same old wolf, this time in new sheeps clothing.
>
>Rob
>
>

Ok! OK! I get the picture. Shees! Can't a guy fall off the turnip truck
once in a while? I realize now, thanx to the e-mail of a bunch of people
that I have fallen (as have others) for a very big joke. I guess to 
keep this from happening again, I need to study up on my paraastronomy.
 
Gregg.

-- 
        Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research 
    812-442-5354 (Voice)(24 hours/7 days) or e-mail me at gvb@acd4.acd.com
               All information will be strictly confidential.
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: John Lear On Kdwn Las Vegas Tonight
Date: 18 Dec 92 09:06:02 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO


 > From: rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse)
 > Date: 12 Dec 92 15:02:05 GMT
 > Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760
 > guest)
 > Message-ID: <1992Dec12.150205.21803@netcom.com>
 > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors


 >   I heard a little of the John Lear interview and I think that
 > Art Bell is a lousy interviewer.  I would like to hear Mr. Lear
 > interviewed by Terrie Gross on "Fresh Air".  I wrote a letter
 > to NPR asking for interviews on this subject and gave them a
 > list of people I wanted to hear.  I haven't gotten a response
 > after 2 weeks and I really don't expect a response.

Could you tell me a little more about what was said on the program?

Mike

--  
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: mcdaniel@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Tim McDaniel)
Subject: Re: Narrow-minds and Religion
Organization: GREX Public Access Unix +1 313 761 3000
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 01:00:53 GMT

Historical note: it has been known since Greek times (at least) that
the Earth is round.  Educated medieval Europeans knew this.  Columbus's
critics never disputed that the Earth was round; they pointed out
(correctly) that Columbus's estimate of the diameter of the Earth was
way low.  (And the Catholic Church didn't get into significant burning
until the 13th Century anyway.)

-- 
Tim McDaniel
Internet: mcdaniel@{grex,m-net}.ann-arbor.mi.us, mcdaniel@adi.com
From: kellym@wowee.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Kelly Martin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: About John Winston and others ...
Date: 13 Dec 92 03:28:25 MST
Distribution: world
Organization: Not an Organization
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <1992Dec9.192727.582@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (<gvb@acd4.acd.com>) writes:
> I have quite a list from my moderated group that I am running. Possibly
> you would be interested in joining the group? Its kind of slow right now
> but not dead, I don't think.
>
> Gregg.

What sort of group do you mean?  Is it more of an Internet mailing list?
Please send me more information.  It's too bad we can't have a serious
discussion here.

The signal/noise ratio here seems to be getting worse...  To that end,
I think certain people are achieving their objectives, unfortunately.
John Winston doesn't bother me at all, it's all those other "hoot'n'holler"
people.  So many of them, all with the same responses.

> --
>         Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research
>     812-442-5354 (Voice)(24 hours/7 days) or e-mail me at gvb@acd4.acd.com
>                All information will be strictly confidential.

--
%"Vhuuut, you donna' like'a my zooop?"-Fred Flintstone, impersonating a chef
% kellY Martin  UUCP:kellym@wowee.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca  (1:342/53.5@fidonet)

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (Stephen M. Linscott)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup...
Organization: Rice University  
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:54:20 GMT

In article <1gmfl7INNlah@agate.berkeley.edu>
ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu (Kumaran Santhanam) writes:
 
>
>How does one form a new newsgroup?  I'd like to start one about serious
>UFO discussion.  Also...Is there any way that the originator of the news
>group can block articles by certain specific individuals?  If someone can
>provide me with this information, I want to start a serous ufology newsgroup.
>
 
The only moderated group I have read is rec.humor.funny.  People send mail to
the moderator, and the moderator posts to the group.  The moderator has
complete control over what gets posted.  There are probably more details
that I am not aware of, but I think that this is the basic idea.
 
                                              - Steve -
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:9306 sci.skeptic:21543
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Another Goodbye
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 07:35:37 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Dear Folks: Thanks very much for you comments every little bit helps.
John Winston.
From: UNMUTH@BEATE.RZ.FH-ULM.DE ((...))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: HUFON REPORT ON UNDERGROUND BASES IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
Date: 15 Dec 92 09:56:22 GMT
Organization: FHU
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.22

HI !!

Could somebode PLEASE post the

          UGBASES.GIF

picture to this newsgroup !!!!


Cheers Heiko
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John Lear on KDWN Las Vegas Tonight
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 06:55:53 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

If you will please try to post what this person has to say on the radio.
John Winston
From: blackwlf@blackwlf.gwinnett.com (Greg Johns (Sysop))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Newsgroup... how about alt.paranet (moderated)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 19:32:52 EST
Reply-To: blackwlf@blackwlf.gwinnett.com (Greg Johns (Sysop))
Organization: BlackWolf's Den (404)642-9933 v.32bis v.42bis 12/24/96/14.4

-> Perhaps paranet could be gated to a moderated newsgroup. This should
-> take very little setting up and no extra work for the paranet mods
-> (apart from possibly more messages to filter). alt.paranet anyone?

Sounds good to me. post a CFV!

           Greg Johns, BlackWlf@BlackWlf.Gwinnett.Com, sysop:
      BlackWolf's Den 404-642-9933 12/24/96/14.4 (v.32bis v.42bis)
         Usenet Newsgroups and Internet Email BBS, open to all.

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj)
Subject: Re: Trip on Space Ship 3.
Organization: Carl Pellonpaa Fan Club - South Chapter
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:00:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.080900.24215@wega.rz.uni-ulm.de> UNMUTH@BEATE.RZ.FH-ULM.DE ((...)) writes:

>... Joe Scheisskopf (boy, am I sorry for your family name) ...

For those of you who missed the joke, "Scheisskopf" is German for 
shithead.  See Joseph Heller's "Catch-22".  Eine Uhr fi... never mind.

-- 
		        jcj@tellabs.com
		  "Hey, Moe!  I dropped it!"
From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: maieno
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:24:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.130541.21265@wam.umd.edu> zedaker@next12pg2.wam.umd.edu (PMW "MAP") writes:
>
>tenalp rehtona morf mai.
>
>ah!

Maha! 
	Yaha...
Shatameni fuji karangi?

--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
		-- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 13:02:03 EST
From: <DMS180@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject:    NOWSPEAK I

I saw a royal woman in peasant garb.  She was trying to explain to the local
boys that she didn't really belong there.  She said she was from another
world.  "Not another planet", she was emphatic about that.  "Just another
world!" she would shout.  "And how do I get back?" was the question she kept
repeating, over and over.  This world seemed to be getting on her nerves.
She seemed intent on trying to explain the difference between her "world"
and the world these boys were inhabiting at this very moment.  "There really
is NO difference!" She was quite agitated.

The boys were playing spit-ball and fence the pig and really weren't paying
much attention to her.  That seemed to unsettle her even more.  "It's a
joke", she cried, as tears began forming in the corners of her smile.  The
boys noticed, as boys seem to notice the most unusual things, that as the
woman tried to convince then that there were things that they didn't notice,
that a cloud began forming around her.  The faster she spoke, the faster her
hands tried to illustrate what she thought were the most important things
she was saying, the faster the the sparks of dew and sand and light and dark
and leaves and pollen and dustand...grew around her to form the most perfect
aura of immaculate speculation the boys had ever seen.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: y41@aix320a.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Jeffrey Hazelwood)
Subject: Strange Tidbits
Organization: University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 13:05:06 GMT


First of all, alien freaks don't get pissed because this is posted here!

Now, does anyone have any info on the dude in Florida that built his entire
house out of Coral. It had huge blocks and a revolving 2 ton block door.  The
cat claimed to have figured out the "secret" of gravity and all kinds of other
stuff.  Anyone in the know?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey T. Hazelwood                    Universitt Heidelberg
EMAIL: y41@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de       Heidelberg, Germany 

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From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John Boy
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 07:39:04 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Dear Folks: Thanks for the kind words. Be sure and wear asbestos
underwear if you post to this Net.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Stollman, Winston, et al.
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:00:52 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Dec15.065737.16406@news2.cis.umn.edu>, gslars@staff.tc.umn.edu () writes...
>Doesn't it seem a little strange that there's a John Winston to pick
>up where Gary Stollman left off?

Yes it does. As I've said before, quite literally dozens of net.readers post
that these people are killing the credibility of this group, and it seems to
spur them on... Exactly the sort of thing I'd expect from an active
disinformation campaign.

How do you kill your enemy's economy in wartime? FLOOD the market with
counterfeit money. How do you frustrate and discredit any serious research into
a subject like UFOs? FLOOD their sources of information with silly, unrelated,
and distracting crap.

Today I read two posts by people who got fed up with the crap, and are
unsubscribing. Well, folks, the campaign is becoming successful.

JOHN WINSTON, anything to say for yourself? Are you actively trying to drive us
away? Why?

-Tom R.   randolph@est.enet.dec.com
From: victor.volkman@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Victor Volkman) 
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: TEST MESSAGE
Date: 20 Dec 92 12:22:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, (313)663-4173, Ann Arbor, MI, USA
Reply-To: victor.volkman@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Victor Volkman) 

This is a test message, please reply flame to
sysop@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us
From: srnwhite@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Shannon White)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO call-in show on CBC Newsworld
Keywords: UFO, CBC
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:38:52 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

There will be a call-in show discussing UFOs on CBC Newsworld.
CBC Newsworld is Canada's equivalent of the BBC world service.
I believe it starts at 6:00 Eastern.

Shannon
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (<gvb@acd4.acd.com>)
Subject: Re: John Winston is full of it !
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:15:35 GMT

In article <18343@mindlink.bc.ca> Gregory_Nouch@mindlink.bc.ca (Gregory Nouch) writes:
>Ok guys and maybe gals. There's a guy on this group that's a bit strange. I
>don't know where he's getting this information from but it sounds quite
>insane. You would have yo be quite gullable to beleif what he's telling us.
>For example he said that there examining a alien. If this was true it would
>be in the "regular" newspapers. Not just the tabloids. I think most people
>here agree with me but I could be wrong.  I agree that you just want
>attention and too laugh at all the people that beleif you.
>
>
>
>PS, I hope you have fun in your next UFO adventure
>
>
>                                                  Greg
>
>
>


From one Gregg to another...

I am not a governmental conspiracy theorist, however, if we were examining
an alien it would not be in the newspapers government conspiracy or not.
There are some things you just don't publish. If the New York Times, for
example, were to publish something like "Government Examines Alien"
the rest of the newspapers in the country would run "New York Times
Purchased By National Inquirer". I am sure the US Gov. would have
something to say about it, of course, in the name of National Security.
You can hide and justify just about anything under that subject. Its 
done all the time. 

The question of whether of not we are examining an alien is not determinable,
at least by me, with all the disinformation and fantasy information available.
I am sure you will find somebody that knows all the answers and resides 
on either side of the question. Looks like you are one that knows we are 
not. I hope this little note either opened up your mind a bit. If not,
have a nice day.

Gregg.
 
-- 
        Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research 
    812-442-5354 (Voice)(24 hours/7 days) or e-mail me at gvb@acd4.acd.com
               All information will be strictly confidential.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff)
Subject: Re: Possible Kill File Uses
Organization: BeHereNow
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 18:14:35 GMT

In article <72032@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear People: Please be my guest and post some of your serious information.
>John Winston.

Now THERE is a SERIOUS message. If you all out there have something to share,
I'm waiting...

Jeff-

Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:9174 alt.religion.kibology:5343