From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Feminists "Make War, Not Love?" (was: Dad-Kid Divorce Prohibition:
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:44:14 GMT

In article <riaedwards.1.718953878@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au> riaedwards@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (AUDREY EDWARDS) writes:
>
[A] >I could not resist this! No, Mr Sheaffer, feminism is not about war 
    >against men. Rather, it is the campaign for *equality of opportunity* and 
    >the recognition of the equal status of men and women by all in society. 
 
>If, as you appear (by your various postings) to believe, all (or at least 
>most) of the social ills of the world derive from feminism, then why is that 
>the U.K. (my own country) where (generally speaking).... 
[B] >* we have not got a PC movement (except personal computers!), 
    >* we don't know who McKinnen or Dworkin are, 
    >* we have fault based divorce, but 'clean-break' financial settlements,  
    >* politically, we have had conservative leadership for some time,
 
>....is not the haven of peace and tranquility that your theories would 
>suggest. 
[C] >We still have inequality in pay (see my posting in alt. 
    >feminism as an example), continued inequality of opportunity (such as 
    >exclusion from business marketing functions at male-only venues) and 
    >widespread [alleged] harrassment at work. 

> Could it be that a *more* vocal feminist movement in the U.K. is required? 

If [A] were true, then I think that few if any of us would have any problems
with it. But if you have been following the discussions here, you know why
this is not true, at least in North America. 

The fact that people in the U.K. haven't gotten all bent out of shape
over the allegations in [C] explains why you are not troubled by [B].
Here in the U.S., we have *both* sets of problems, so consider yourselves
fortunate. Perhaps the reason you're not so troubled by [B] in the U.K.
is that [A] may be more approximately true there. I really do not know
for sure. I do know that during a visit to London two years ago, I
was somewhat surprised to see on a tourist map a "womens' centre"
prominently marked, in a park by the Thames not far from Cleopatra's
needle. I didn't expect to find such Political Correctness in Britain.
But when I happened to walk by there, the place was all closed
up and had been for some time. Apparently it was a relic of the Radical
60s that had seen its day of usefulness, and had folded up. And I know
that this is generally true in Europe as well - the war against men
is not being waged there. For some reason, only here in North America 
did the form of 60s radicalism called "feminism" take serious root.
All the other 60-isms have died out here, as well.

-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"