From: tpjg9663@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tom Johnston)
Subject: Re: Jack "King" Kirby: ripped off by Marvel
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:54:56 GMT

4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (John LaRocque) writes:

>In article <Bzq8B9.6q1@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, tpjg9663@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tom Johnston) writes:

>It's Chaykin's views that comics are trash. I think he should be the
>patron saint of all the jerkoffs in this group who think that work for
>hire is the greatest thing since sliced bread and that artists don't
>deserve anything except a pat on the back and a small thank you for
>their work. In fact - he's PERFECT. A marriage made in hell.

OK, so your goal is to somehow make us all love and admire Chaykin?
Good luck.

>gee thanks. you just made my day even better.
 
Sorry about that.

>>>[...] Comics = toothpaste = construction work = blow jobs = beer =
>>>shit.

>You mean after Robin died and Supes died and Spiderman got married in
>Shea Stadium and since all the little bat-mites wrote protest letters
>about Michael Keaton that ANYBODY OTHER THAN FANBOYS WILL TAKE COMICS
>SERIOUSLY. If we don't love and appreciate the medium enough, nobody
>else EVER will.

We are not fanboys, and we are taking the medium seriously; we love
	and appreciate the medium.  
DC and Marvel have promoted certain garbage titles and poorly-done
	comics to the hilt.  
Both statements are true.

>> Some are aimed for adults,

>who think like children and write protest letters about Batman....

Well, if you're asked to not make blanket statements about all comics,
why not make some about all comics readers?  Sheesh.

>No-one will ever accept comics as an art form. 
>Art Spiegalman [...] the Alex Raymond Flash Gordons [...] 
>This is the whole comics = blowjob philosophy - the Chaykin
>philosophy espoused all too often in this group. [...] 'Lil Abner
>[...] Milton Cannon's Terry and the Pirates
>[...]  No, comics are
>just a corporate commodity to be thrust in the trash or bought and sold
>and collector shows for obscene amounts of money to non-comics speculators
>who see a chance to make money. Comics = blowjobs.

I accept comics as an artform, and at the same
time accept that many comics creators work for Marvel & DC and
don't own the rights to the characters they work on.

>> Nope, I'm just going to read the books which entertain me, and skip the
>> rest. 

>Comics = pornography. I'm just going to "read" the porn mags which entertain
>me and skip the rest.

Versus reading all comics, even those you don't enjoy?  Earth calling
JLR, Earth calling JLR...

>> The equation "Comics = toothpaste ..." doesn't deserve comment.

>Maybe it deserves debate.

Nope.

Comics are an artform.  Comics creators are adults who shouldn't sign
contracts they are not willing to fulfill.  

>> Believe it or not, I have a lot of respect for the Image creators for
>> deciding to leave the guaranteed audience (and paychecks) of Marvel
>> and go out on their own.

>They didn't leave their audience. That's the whole point. They don't
>need the Marvel/DC corporate cartel to find it. And (if they manage

The Image boys may not have needed Marvel to find their audience,
but they sure did use Marvel in that way.

>As for your crack about finding new titles, I have probably seen more
>kinds of comic books than anybody else on this newsgroups. Some well
>drawn, some not well drawn, some meant for some audiences, some for 
>others. I don't believe that comics = toothpaste = porn = blowjob.
>But I know that anybody who just regards comics as corporate commodities
>is actively commiting themselves to the destruction of the whole comic
>book genre.  

My 'crack' about finding new titles was meant sincerely.  Some
creators are putting out quality material, and their work doesn't
deserve to be degraded simply because much of the mainstream comics
work currently being done is (to put it charitably) aimed at 
adolescents.

Tom
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc