HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: Detecting Second-Order GR Effects in Binary Pulsars
Organization: LLNL
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:17:29 GMT

In article <BzD2DK.G7z@well.sf.ca.us> metares@well.sf.ca.us (Tom Van Flandern) writes:
>
>lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>
: for the amount of G-wave flux to be theoretically uncertain, it is also
: required that the precession rate be theoretically uncertain, or else that
: both quantities be controllable with fudge factors that can be adjusted to
: give a line of agreement.  However, GR predicts an unambiguous value for
: _both_ the precession rate _and_ the G-wave decay rate.
>
>     Not exactly, Loren.  The GR prediction of the "precession" rate (what I
>call the periastron rate) depends upon masses, semi-major axis, and
>eccentricity too.

	What I was saying is that GR has no fudge factors in the
orbit-precession rate, like what other theories have.

	If one takes the Newtonian orbit parameters: (a1 sin i), P,
and e, and adds in the redshift effect and the precession rate
(assuming the truth of GR's post-Newtonian approximation), one
uniquely determines the masses, the semimajor axis, and the
inclination. If non-GR effects caused the precession rate to be off,
the only effect would be on the value of (M1 + M2)/a.

	See Shapiro and Teukolsky's book _Black Holes, White Dwarfs,
and Neutron Stars_ for an elementary derivation.

When you drop the G-wave flux to zero, for example, the
>masses and elements adjust so that the periastron rate fully takes up the
>slack.  That's what Damour's statement means when he says that the amount of
>gravitational radiation cannot be uniquely solved for by itself.  It can only
>be constrained by theory.  -|Tom|-

	It just doesn't work out that way. The other elements don't
"adjust". They are precisely fixed by post-Newtonian GR.

	It would also mean that there is another source of orbit decay
which makes a rate that is nearly _equal_ to the GR G-wave rate, and
that is asking almost too much of coincidence.
-- 
/Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster
/lip@s1.gov
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: greene@hubble.ifa.hawaii.edu (Tom Greene)
Subject: Re: IRTF e-mail address for proposals?
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:20:56 GMT

Hi,

IRTF proposal information (and soon the 1993 Jan-June schedule) can be
obtained via anonymous FTP from the IRTF On-Line archive on
hubble.ifa.hawaii.edu (128.171.160.5) in /pub/IRTF and its subdirectories.
You may also mail Karan Hughes (hughes@uhifa.ifa.hawaii.edu) or the
Director, Bob Joseph (joseph@uhifa.ifa.hawaii.edu) with general questions.
Contact the support astronomers for specific instrument questions.

-Tom Greene
IRTF CSHELL Support Astronomer
greene@uhifa.ifa.hawaii.edu
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (J. D. McDonald)
Subject: Re: Purchasing a portable telescope
Organization: UIUC SCS
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:41:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.173719.14322@linus.mitre.org> chaloux@mandolin.mitre.org (Dave Chaloux) writes:

>Doug McDonald writes:

>>(Dave Chaloux) writes:


>>>Some thoughts about off axis masks: I find it interesting that Mike has >>mentioned
>>>using a 3" off axis mask to help. If a mirror is a figure of revolution with
>>>a 1/2 mirror masking the mirror it is still 1/2 wave. Maximum Longitudinal and
>>>transverse aberrations will be just as bad.


>>Those last two statements may be true .. or they may be false, totally false.

>>If the mirror has a smooth surface, but has spherical aberration,
>>and is 1/n wave full aperture, it will be 1/(4*n) wave at half aperture.
>>The same is true for pure third order astigmatism.

>>If. in the other hand, it has narrow zonal aberrations and **no**
>>third order spherical or astigmatism, then indeed stopping down will still
>>leave a 1/n wave mirror 1/n wave.

>>Doug McDonald

>I hate to get into a squabble with a professional optician, especially since
>there is the "remote" chance I am wrong.

>I believe I understand what Doug is talking about and I think we are talking
>Apples and Oranges. Specifically, what he says is true if you mask the
>aperture down on Axis. In otherwords, the center of the mask matches the
>center of the mirror. I specified that the mask was off axis and in this
>case I am pretty sure that masking does not cut down the error in the
>way he says. Trying to draw an ASCII diagram, if the mirror is a figure of
>revolution your typical mirror might look like this.

>    /-------------\          /--------------\
>  /                 \       /                \
>/                     \   /                   \
>------------------------+----------------------- Prefect surface.


[Long argument removed]

This is fifth order or higher spherical aberration, not third, so my
argument about off-axis masks is in the "zones" case. In other words,
its perfectly true that an off axis mask half the diameter of this
mirror won't help it.

A third order error would look like:


>   __/-----------------------------\__ 
> _/                                   \_
>/                                       \
>-----------------------------------------  Perfect surface.

This is hard to draw and not make it look like "just a different radius 
of curvature". And obviously you can draw a straight line through half
of it with less average error.

Doug McDonald
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: metares@well.sf.ca.us (Tom Van Flandern)
Subject: Re: Detecting Second-Order GR Effects in Binary Pulsars
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:40:36 GMT


bweiner@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Benjamin Weiner) writes:

> Tom, would you repost your list of citations - it is totally impossible
> to tell what you are talking about without it.  Have you ever tried to
> look up a paper in a literature searcher knowing only that an author is
> named Yu?

     I'm happy to oblige, Ben.  Your dilemma would be especially difficult in
the case of Yu, since the full citation is:  Yu Xin (A. Yu), "Does Einstein's
G.R. theory predict gravitational radiation of PSR 1913+16?",  Astrophys. &
SpaceSci. 194, 159-163 (1992).  I don't know how you could look that one up
in a literature searcher.

     The author's conclusion is: "the Einstein approximation scheme gives no
gravitational radiation.  ...  The claim that observed data from PSR 1913+16
has verified Einstein's gravitational radiation theory is, therefore,
groundless."

     BTW, I have been assuming that everyone has access to the beginnings of
this thread, where this citation first appeared.  Is that a bad
assumption?  -|Tom|-

-- 
Tom Van Flandern / Washington, DC / metares@well.sf.ca.us
Meta Research was founded to foster research into ideas not otherwise
supported because they conflict with mainstream theories in Astronomy.
From: wgw@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re. Old astronomical events
Date: 11 Dec 92 16:37:29 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620


Subject: Old astronomical events

In  <64590005@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com> Bill Buzbee  writes :

>   Can anyone out there help me find some about some old astronomical
>   events?
>
>   One of my hobbies is collecting old books.  Because I'm not rich,
>   though, sometimes I can only afford single leaves of old books and
>   manuscripts.  A while back I picked up a page from a mid-16th
>   century book which, in Latin, described the following:
>
>       o  A solar eclipse on September 18, 760 a.d. at 9:00.
>
>       o  A solar eclipse the following year (761) on the fourth
>      	  of the month (probably Sept.) at 6:00.  [My Latin
>	  isn't very good; this could have meant a lunar eclipse
>	  on September 4, 761.]
>
>       o  A comet which blazed in the East for 10 days in 761.
>
>       o  A comet which blazed in the West for 21 days in 761.
>
>       o  Big meteor showers in 763 and 765 [the one in 763 "causes
>	  men, in wonder and fear, to think that the end of the world
>	  is near"]


Your page seems to have used Theophanes' Chronographia as its primary source.

Theophanes  mentions the solar eclipse of 760 August 15 (at the tenth hour
of the day),  a comet in 760 first in the east for 10 days and then in the 
west for 21 days (NB this is our old friend P/Halley),  a comet in 762 and 
a meteor shower in 763 March.

The second eclipse could be either the total lunar eclipse of 763 Jan 4 
which is mentioned in the Annals of Ulster or, more likely, the solar 
eclipse of 764 June 4 which is mentioned in the Royal Frankish Annals  
(e.g. see Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Scriptores, volume 1, p.145) 
and in the Annales Flaviniacences et Lausonenses  (MGH, S, vol. 3, p.151).


The path of the 760 eclipse moved N-S through Finland, Russia and the
Black Sea.  The path of the 764 eclipse moved W-E through Britain, N.Europe
and Russia.   

Both the 760 and 764 solar eclipses are mentioned in Curtius' (1666) 
[not always entirely accurate!] compilation :

  Annus Christi  760

   Solis Eclipsis Anno 20. Constantini Copronymi : Augusti 15.
   constantinopoli, ex Theophane.  Fuit Petavio H.5. post merid.
   digit.10. Ricciolus.

  Annus Christi  764

   Aimoninus in rebus gestis Francorum, annotat Eclipsin Solis
   hoc anno, quae accidit die 4.Junij, feria secunda, fere in
   ipso meridie.  Digiti Ecliptici 7.15.  Apud Calvisium.



Graeme Waddington, Oxford
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: hathaway@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Earth's Orbit if no other planets
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:47:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.171821.5244@sfu.ca>, palmer@sfu.ca (Leigh Palmer) writes:
> In article <9212150607.AA09164@cpsnet2.cps.edu> DAVID_JOHNSON@cpsnet2.cps.edu
> writes:
..
> 
>>I was arguing on the side of astronomy, as he believes that astrology
>>does have some reality to it, specifically in the area of the other
>>planets influencing people here.
  ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^
>>
>>Comments?
> 
> He's probably wrong, but this is not the season to disabuse people of
> their religious delusions. After New Years Day ask him to make some 
> quantitative predictions and check them out.
> 
> Leigh
> 
> "Remember that the man whose birth we celebrate this season died a virgin."
>                                                          -me
***

Verily, 'tis the season to be jolly ... even though we all know there can be 
absolutely NO >>planets influencing people here.
Accordingly we pay NO attention to such as the following.  Ironically it 
was the next posting on my machine here.  When will these planets learn 
to leave us alone???  


 SKY & TELESCOPE NEWS BULLETIN -- DECEMBER 12, 1992
 ------ THIS WEEK'S PLANET ROUNDUP

 MERCURY is very low in the east-southeast during dawn. 

 VENUS blazes in the southwest as twilight fades, getting higher and
 brighter each week. 

 MARS is in Gemini near the fainter stars Pollux and Castor, below them.
 It rises soon after the end of twilight and shines high overhead by
 midnight. Mars is getting big and bright as it nears its January 7th
 opposition. Currently it's 14 arc seconds in apparent diameter; when
 closest in early January it will be 15. 

 JUPITER, in Virgo, rises around 1 a.m. and is the brightest "star" in
 the south at dawn. 

 SATURN is the fainter "star" just a few degrees to the upper left of
 Venus. Watch it closing in on Venus; their conjunction comes on Dec.
 21. 

 URANUS, NEPTUNE, and PLUTO are hidden behind the glare of the Sun. 
 --
 SKYLINE is not to be distributed or used for profit. Transcribed and
 provided with permission from Sky & Telescope Magazine.
 The SKYLINE voice report is provided as a public service by Sky &
 Telescope Magazine. SKYLINE is a voice recording on 617/497-4168.


I hope it can be distributed for humor. 

Wm. Hathaway
From: s35277r@saha.hut.fi (Jaakko Oksa)
Subject: chromatic aberration w. binocs ?
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:09:18 GMT

I've just bough a cheap pair of 15*70 binoculars, and I've noticed that
they have a much worse chromatic aberration than any (50mm) binocs I've
previously used. This is not noticeable in daytime conditions, but it 
becomes very visible when looking at bright lights at night. Stars are
ok though, so why am I complaining...:) anyway, I'd like some info
on this subject.

This thing is called "Bresser Saturn 15x70", and it seems to be ok
both mechanically and optically except for the abovementioned problem. 
It is also well collimated, which has been a problem with all inexpensive 
binocs I've used before (i.e. I've allways had trouble with aligning the
images)

-Could it be that 70mm binocs are simply more sensitive to chromatic
 aberration, in which case it would be normal for equipment in this  
 price range (1/4 price of a used Nikon...)?

-Is it possible that these achromatic lenses are designed for good
 correction on shorter end of the spectrum only, i.e. bright reddish light
 sources would be a problem ?

The binocs are probably ok for their intended use, but answers
will be greatly appreciated.

........................................................................
.Jaakko Oksa........................"When all other means of............
.s35277r@saha.hut.fi.................communication fail, try words".....
........................................................................
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: jsmill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Earth's Orbit if no other planets
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:48:20 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Dec16.190338.14349@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com>, dsmith@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (David R. Smith) writes:

[stuff deleted for brevity]
> 
> I don't think Pluto's discovery should be called a fluke, since -- as you
> note -- Tombaugh's search was very thorough (and extended a long ways away
> from the ecliptc).  Pluto's discovery position happened to be sort of near
> one of the several conflicting predictions that Lowell had made based on
> gravitational perturbations.  That was the fluke, since as you say, Pluto
> is too small and far away to have caused the alleged perturbations.
> 
> -- 
> David R. Smith, HP Labs |   "I like to get my hands dirty,
> dsmith@hpl.hp.com       |   because it stimulates my mind."
> (415) 857-7898          |        -- Irwin Sobel
===========================================================================
True enough.  I have misspoke.  I meant that the entire reason for 
carrying on the search makes it a fluke.  Tombaugh would not have done 
all that painstaking work if there was not a belief that something was 
playing havoc with Uranus in its orbit besides Neptune.

My apologies.

Scott Miller
From: dubostk@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Dubost Karl)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Star Mar Gifs
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:45:34 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal


	Hi, you must find some beautiful images (GIF) with an anonymous
FTP at :

	ames.arc.nasa.gov (128.102.18.3) in /pub/SPACE/
	gypsy.vmars.tuwien.ac.at (128.130.39.16) in /pub/spacegifs/

				BYE !!!

-- 
	   Karl DUBOST		|" Les pionniers d'un monde sans guerre	
      Universite de Montreal	|  sont les objecteurs de conscience."	
   Etudiant (physique et astro)	|	
    dubostk@ere.umontreal.ca	|		Albert EINSTEIN.
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: UU-NNA Astronomy Consultants
Date: 16 Dec 92 00:36:37 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin


USENET UNIVERSITY - NEW NETWORK ACADEMY
CONSULTANTS LIST

Issue: 6
Posted: 1992 December 15
Expires: 1993 January 30

*Season's Greetings*
(For full list of all consultants see alt.uu.announce)

Generated: 1992 Dec 15

If you would like to add or remove yourself from this list send e-mail
to joe@astro.as.utexas.edu with your real name, your e-mail address,
and the topics you would like to consult on.  If the topic you wish to
consult on is a potential controversial one (e.g. religion or politics),
you should also send your "perspective" on the topic. 

The Usenet University Consultants List is an experimental program 
to develop a community of consultants who are willing to answer 
questions over e-mail.

The people below have graciously volunteered their time to answer
questions on the subjects listed over e-mail.  Please be courteous in
asking questions.  In particular, please try not to overload the 
consultants.

I retain full discretion concering the contents of this list.  All
views and opinions of the consultants are those of the consultants
themselves and may or may not reflect my views.  I disclaim any and
all liability resulting from the answers which consultants may give.

This list is copyrighted, but the author gives permission to copy the
list provided it is reproduced with no modifications.  


School of Natural Sciences
   Department of Astronomy
      joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joseph Wang)
         Topic: astrophysics (especially supernova and shock waves)
      bbbehr@sunspot.sunspot.noao.edu
         Topic: astrophysics (especially solar questions)
      gawne@stsci.edu (Bill Gawne)
         Topic: astrophysics      
      jsmill01@ulkyvx.louisvill.edu (Scott Miller)
         Topic: general astronomy
      metzler@pablo.physics.lsa.umich.edu (Chris Metzler)
         Topic: cosmology, early universe; extragalactic astronomy
      thomas@astro.phys.uwec.edu (Paul J. Thomas)
         Topic: numerical modeling of planetary interiors and impact processes
      spiczak%pulsar%ind.hepnet@Lbl.Gov (Glenn Spiczak)
         Topic: Cosmic ray experiments
      burtt@lynch.nscl.msu.edu (Brian Burtt)
         Topic: galaxies, astrochemistry, spectroscopy, mathematical 
                astrophysics
      kmarvel@NMSU.edu (Ken Marvel)
         Topic: Radio Interferometry and VLBI, stellar masers
      bazan@astro.as.utexas.edu (Grant Bazan)
         Topic: hydrodynamics, accretion disks
From: root@admin.mport.COM (admin)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: ATM Materials
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:10:52 GMT
Organization: Microport Inc., Scotts Valley, CA 95066 US of A

combs@vaxr.llnl.gov writes:

>In response to recent requests for sources of mirror making supplies here are
>my suggestions.
>     If you have abrasives and are looking just for glass, try Newport Glass
>Works, LTD. 714/642-9980, 2044-D Placentia Ave, Costa Mesa, CA 92627.  They
> ...
> ...
>Rich Combs                              combs@vaxr.llnl.gov
============

A word of warning about Newport Glass -  I ordered some supplies from them
COD. 
First - they took quite a long time filling the order
Second - they screwed the order up - they included things I didn't order
and left out things I did order

I spent the next 1/2 year trying to get my bill straightened out.  There
is no way I can convey to you the frustration I had in dealing with them.
I was always shuffled around - NO one had the slightest idea what was
going on.  I would carefully explain what had happened, they would
say yes then go into robot mode saying I owed them $XXX for stuff
I never received.

I have NO idea how they have sayed in business.  The pity of it is - they
are one of the few places you can get blanks and tools.  Universal is
much better for supplies like abrasives, pads, etc.

Good Luck

  -rbd

ps - I finally straightened it out


=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*========*=*=*=*=*=*=*=========*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
Richard ducman Ducoty                                          Microport Inc.
duc@mport.com                                                  Scotts Valley, CA
root@mport.com                                                 408.438.8649
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: dsmith@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (David R. Smith)
Subject: Buying mail-order from camera stores
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:15:25 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA

We have heard some horror stories about buying astronomical stuff from New
York camera stores, among others.  Does anyone have an opinion on Shutan
Camera and Video in Chicago?  They sent me a catalog, presumably from
borrowing Sky & Tel's mailing list.  Their 20% off sale on TeleVue eyepieces
looks tempting.

-- 
David R. Smith, HP Labs |   "I like to get my hands dirty,
dsmith@hpl.hp.com       |   because it stimulates my mind."
(415) 857-7898          |        -- Irwin Sobel
From: jeremy@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Jeremy Smith)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: I want the Moon.
Date: 13 Dec 92 05:58:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: leela.1992Dec13.055848.14808
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University

Dear Fellow astro-netters.

	I'm looking for a clear, bright graphic of a full moon - no 
shadows, eclipses, umbras penumbras, phases.  I've archied moon and 
fullmoon and there are many neat pictures but most of the full moon 
shots show <75%.

	Whilst I'm here, is there an available list of the main events 
for the coming year: time and dates of the moon phases and eclipses and such?

-- 
Jeremy |-) Smith	jeremy@atlantis.cs.orst.edu
A new smiley ;_0 (The munged-case smiley)
From: train@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Hubble constant
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:25:05 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <2268.857.uupcb@almac.co.uk> donald.mcintyre@almac.co.uk (Donald Mcintyre) writes:
>
>>I heard recently that there was new evidence just published somewhere
>>pinning the Hubble constant to about 60 km/sec/megaparsecs. Can anyone
>>comment on how this relates to estimates on the time from the Big
>>Bang?
>
The age of the universe is:

          t_universe = 1/H

What other consequences of this you wish to discuss, i have no idea.

  
-- 
*******************************************************************************
*  "My neural pathways have become accustomed    |    Alton R. Pouncey II     *
*   to your sensory input patterns."             |  train@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  *
*******************************************************************************
From: rbunge@access.digex.com (Robert Bunge)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Yet Another "New Look
Date: 15 Dec 1992 17:18:02 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications Service, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <587.36.uupcb@pcs.sj.ca.us> paul.burnett@pcs.sj.ca.us (Paul Burnett)  writes:

>  >>    you see the three-volume set of ATM being published today?
>  >>    I've been reading mine since the fifties and still find
>  >>    useful stuff in it.
>
>RB>Interesting that you mention the the ATM books.  I've heard that
>  >Willmann-Bell has acquired the rights to these books and hopes to
>  >reprint them.  That's GREAT news, if you ask me.
>
>Why?  Granted that some things stay the same, a collection of articles
>from _Scientific American's_ ATM columns from the 1930's and 1940's is
>simply too old to be of much use at all.  That's on of the reasons back
>issue collections of S&T are in such demand - at least they're up to
>date.

Because much of the information in these books is of use but isn't available
anywhere else.  Examples:  Two years ago when I had astigmatism problems with
a mirror that I was making, an article in ATM Book II (Warner) showed me
how to measure the amount of astigmatism.

Sometimes it's amazing what can be found in these "old" books.  A recent
amateur astronomy guidebook praised black telescope tubes bacause they
radiate away heat faster then traditional white tubes.  Yet, way back
in 1930, Horace Dall wrote an article on paints for telescope domes in
which he clearly explains that most paint, regardless of color, radiates
heat at about the same rate.

When I recently built a pair of homemade binoculars, a couple of articles
in these books provideds clues, ideas and basic knowledge.

On the downside, there is some stuff in these books are aren't good, 
out of date or even down right wrong (the articles about the ronchi
tests, for instance).  The problem is to know which stuff is good and
which is bad.

Bob Bunge
rbunge@access.digex.com
Newsgroups: sci.astro