HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andrew@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andrew Sung Hyun Kim)
Subject: Re: education system
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:36:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.232208.23313@news.acns.nwu.edu> phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi) writes:
>[...]
>in Brazil [...]  They will go out and
>do what they want.  Some of them will learn music BECAUSE THEY WANT TO.
>Others will learn something else.  And others will walk the dark side of
>life.  But leave them to decide on their own, and let them live their life.
>
>Moral:  Give them freedom.

Let me throw in a monkey wrench here.  Few counter examples.

Child prodigies such as Mozart and Beethoven had very overbearing
father who physically forced them to long hours of practice.
I wonder whether Beethoven and Mozart would have been as succesful
if they were not pushed in their childhood.

Another interesting example might be  Schostakovich.  His career
was jump started by his first symphony, which was written under
most adverse of condition.  However, his subsequent symphonies
(2,3,4) were dismal failures.  They were symphonies which were
labeled contrary to spirit of communism.  So, under pressure to 
change he wrote his wonderful symphony #5.  This symphony was in 
a way forced on by the communist party.  This symphony is 
performed in regular basis, all over the world and is consider
by many critics as a masterpiece.

So, in certain examples, strangely enough this deprivation of
freedom can results in something that is beautiful.  Yes, it
is a contradiction, an enigma.

Of course, one could come up with counter examples....
Nothing is so black and white it seems.

>James Choi

Andrew Sung Hyun Kim

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: tchoi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: education system
Reply-To: tchoi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:01:21 GMT

wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin) writes:

>I don't know how they teach Music now in Korea.

Noraebang takes care of it very well.

Giltsu Choi.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Kimchee in US supermarkets
Date: 28 Jan 93 12:30:43 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


Kimchee is available in the Pittsburgh supermarket chain
of "Giant Eagle Supermarkets"

the Brand is called FREIDA

I thought it tasted really good.

My parents said that compared to the best home-made home-fermented
kimchee, this brand rates a 7 out of 10.

Compared to mass market mass produced market quality kimchee,
it rates a 9 out of 10.

Amazingly, this brand of kimchee doesn't smell of rotting vegetables.

Somehow, they have been able to separated the two events of
fermentation and decay, keeping one without the other.

This new kimchee is $4 per soda can sized bottle. 
Compared to $9 for those really large jars of breath-bomb raw
irregularly prepared kimchee from your friendly korean market.

- jon


Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: andrew@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andrew Sung Hyun Kim)
Subject: Latest Korean statistic of interest
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:56:50 GMT


For these who are interested in Korea, enjoy.

The lastest figures of interest:

per capita income      := 6,340$         (30th in the world)
 (first Swiss 33,510$
 Highest rate of per capita income rise between 80-91
 was recorded by ROK.)

GNP(gross nat'l prod)  := 274 billion $  (15th in the world)
 (first US 5686 billion $,  Japan 2664 billion$
      DPRK   20 billion $   [DPRK = 1988 figure] ))

Population             :=  43 million    (23rd in the world)
 (first China 1.15billion,  DPRK    23 million)

Pop. increase rate     :=  1.1%          (50th in the world)
Longetivity            :=  71 years      (62nd in the world)
 (DPRK has same longetivity numbers!)
 (First is Japan with 79 years avg..)

Andrew Sung Hyun Kim

"Man's world is manifold, and his attitude are manifold.  What is manifold is
 often frightening because it is not neat and simple.  Men prefer to forget 
 many possibilities are open to them.  They like to be told that there are two 
 worlds and two ways.  This is comforting because it is so tidy."  W. Kaufmann  

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: 7007_5566@uwovax.uwo.ca (Henry E Chon)
Subject: munho or anyone...
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:07:34 GMT

first of all, i apologize for posting a personal email to s.c.k. but i lost
the address and this is where i know i can find him.  i apologize again.

munho,

the files you gave me were compiled in unix thus i can't use it in vax/vms.
also when i corrected them to be able to compile in vax, it gave me an error
message saying i don't have file called stdio.h ( i think this was it -the 
first line of the program contains #include "stdio.h")

help!

thanks in advance.


and for anyone reading this, maybe you can help me too. why not send ks2iso
and iso2ks to me via email so i can compile them.  and oh, what do i do with
them anyway?  download it to pc and then what?  so many questions....

-- 
Henry E Chon
7007_5566@uwovax.uwo.ca   University of Western Ontario, London, Canada   
hechon@julian.uwo.ca

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Re: Music education (Re: education system)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:04:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.160522.3928@news.cs.brandeis.edu> tchoi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi) writes:
>
>>So, I still think students should be given freedom to find what they like
>>and explore it, even if some of them go south.  
>
>But at the same time, we have to ENFORCE kids to learn Math, Fyzix,
>Chemical language and Biology (well, let's include computer too), 
>which I think is neccessary to understand nature and to survive 
>in this scientific and information-explosion era.

Yes.  The very same school that did not have ANY music classes had three
years of physics (two different kinds each year), three years of math
(three different kind each year), three years of geometry, three years of
chemistry (two different kind each year) and so on.  Talking about
un-balance, there was one international history class per week, and one
national history per week.  It is an unthinkable unbalance, but I was very
surprised most kids turned out all right, very balanced.

If the circumstances allow, I will send my kid (if I ever have one) to the
same school.

>Giltsu Choi.

James Choi





Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: tchoi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: education system
Reply-To: tchoi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:42:39 GMT

>American education system appears to emphasize encouraging to get freewill 
>and it tends to value more to creation and innovation; Korean education 
>system appears to emphasize getting a better grade all the time and it 
>tends to value more toward application and refinement of idea taught
>in school.
>
People seem to believe that Asians are less creative 
than American. But is it TRUE? Without any hard data, I would say this 
is another MYTH. 
For ME, American education seems to try to make their kids to adults
as soon as possible. (ex. more high school and college students works
for money instead of just studying. And this attitude seems to be
encouraged by saying 'independence' or something obscure word.)
Just my prejudice. I haven't lived here long enough to observe more accurately.

Giltsu Choi.
From: wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: education system
Date: 23 Jan 1993 15:26:46 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodin.cs.uh.edu

In article <1993Jan23.023638.26848@news.acns.nwu.edu> andrew@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andrew Sung Hyun Kim) writes:
>Child prodigies such as Mozart and Beethoven had very overbearing
>father who physically forced them to long hours of practice.
>I wonder whether Beethoven and Mozart would have been as succesful
>if they were not pushed in their childhood.

Yes.
It is a well known fact that many musicians were severely beaten by
their parents.

>Another interesting example might be  Schostakovich.  His career
>was jump started by his first symphony, which was written under
>most adverse of condition.  However, his subsequent symphonies
>(2,3,4) were dismal failures.  They were symphonies which were
>labeled contrary to spirit of communism.  

His symphony #10 was composed several years after the USSR government 
announced "Music Decree", which (sort of) specified that 
"music should conform to ...(their communist idea)"
And it is one of his best pieces.  In fact, the music sounds like 
communist (try 2nd movement), and it it really good.

>So, under pressure to 
>change he wrote his wonderful symphony #5.  
>This symphony was in 
>a way forced on by the communist party.  This symphony is 
>performed in regular basis, all over the world and is consider
>by many critics as a masterpiece.

Ah ! This symphony #5 !
When SeJong Cultural Center opened in 1977,  they invited NY Phil
and Berstein. Berstein said he wanted to play the #5, which was his favorate.
The Korean government rejected since the music was the product of communist.
And Bernstein never came (he said he was sick and sent other guy  8-( ).
I bought the ticket and I was also very sick of it.

>So, in certain examples, strangely enough this deprivation of
>freedom can results in something that is beautiful.  Yes, it
>is a contradiction, an enigma.
>Of course, one could come up with counter examples....
>Nothing is so black and white it seems.
 
It seems to me that artists minds' are always free regardless of the
restrictions put on them.

BTW, the contradiction can be explained by the letter that Tchaikowsky
once wrote to a lady who supported him financially :
   Musicians do not really reflect his current situations to his music.
   What is reflected is his past, recollections.
   Thus, it is not uncommon that he compose very sad music when he is
   very joyful, and he compose very joyful music when he is very sad.
    
>Andrew Sung Hyun Kim


-- 
____   ____  ____ ____________________________________ (___) _________________
|  |   |  |  |  |  W. Woody Jin (wjin@cs.uh.edu)       (o o)      Moo.... 
|  |   |  |__|  |  PhD Student. Research Asst.  o=======\ /  I'm  a Cow Lover.
|  |   |        |  Dept. of Computer Science   / |     ||O   My wife  was born
\  |---|  |--|  |  University of Houston      `  ||'---||    in Cow year. Mooo
 \____/|__|  |__| _______________________________^^    ^^_____________________


Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Re: Can you really study with 4 hours of sleep?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:14:39 GMT

In article <1jolf8INNikh@mojo.eng.umd.edu> dskim@eng.umd.edu (Daeshik Kim) writes:
>
>	However, I was overwhelmed by some girl who got the GRE english
>	score well over 600 very close to 700 from Korea; 

This one is something else!  I don't think I can do it NOW even with my
U.S. passport in my pocket.

>       and I was
>	also overwhelmed by a guy who got TOFEL score around 650
>	(yes, it's not that hard to get over 600 but extremely hard
>	to reach 650).

This one I did while I was in high school.  Is it really that hard to reach
650?  Or is my memory failing me?


>       About the subject test, forget about it; everyone
>	used to get 99% on it from Korea due to what they call 'Jok-bo';
>	and I don't think I have to talk about Math.

What is jok-bo?

>	Daeshik Kim	H: (703) 273-1517 O: (703) 689-5878

James Choi
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Re: "Comfort" women
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:03:27 GMT

In article <wfM0TeO00iV2A1MOUI@andrew.cmu.edu> Rikiya Asano <ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>    Like my friend Andrew Sung Hyun Kim implies, I also think that it
>would be ineffective just to write this Ambassadore only. 
[...]

and he suggested
>* Expression with in Arts

An excellent idea.  One hit song in this subject will be much more
effective than thousand demonstrations in educating the public.

>* Boycott of Japanese products

Impractical.  Japanese goods are too good and too necessary to do anything
about it.  Although I only buy american cars, I also have Nikon cameras.
You just can't avoid the Japanese products.  You look even more ridiculous
at the end of the boycott.

>* Documentation of the victims

Another important point.  The victims are dying out due to their age.  The
crime has to be documented.

James Choi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: ekwon@scott.skidmore.edu (elizabeth kwon)
Subject: testing
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:57:36 GMT

Just testing.
From: babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: education system
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:31:58 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


According to a time magazine ( I think )

American parents think that their children study enough.
  But we see how poorly american students do compared to the world.

Asian parents think their children don't study enough.
 And look how well the kids do.

Of course the attitude of their parents make a BIG
difference in how well the students are prepared 
for their tests.

- jon
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Re: education system
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:14:16 GMT

In article <1jkmnqINNp1p@menudo.uh.edu> wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin) writes:
[...]
>When can Korean high school students get off from 
>                Pass-college-enterance-exam-or-die War ?

The answer is rather obvious and simple.
When the demand exceeds the supply.

James Choi
From: vinita@redbird.pa.dec.com (Vinita Bhatia)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Survey of international students
Date: 25 Jan 93 07:10:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: redbird.9301251910.AA01087
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This is a request for help in a survey of facilities provided to internation
students on different campuses.  I need the information for a class project.

I will appreciate you sharing your experiences of the International Students
Offices in your university with me.  Please let me know of any program that
you thought was useful to you when you joined the school.  Also, if you felt
there was something for which you really needed help and was not addressed
before or after you joined the school.

Thanks for your help.

Vinita
-- 
Vinita Bhatia
vinita@redbird.umsl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Subject: Re: Oh yeah, I forgot...
Reply-To: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:38:47 GMT

In article <1k4bptINNohr@menudo.uh.edu> wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin) writes:
>Most victim was Microsoft.

This is the first time that I have heard "Microsoft" and "victim" mentioned
in the same breath.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jfe@alchemy.TN.Cornell.EDU (Brian Chung)
Subject: Re: You're back! (was I'm back!)
Organization: The Loyal Taxpayers Pub
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:00:19 GMT

In article <9301270113.AA01392@optron.anatomy.upenn.edu> hseung@optronics.anatomy.upenn.edu (Rebecca H. Seung) writes:
>
>Every now and then someone unheard of accuses me
>Sooner I eat the better I feel
>Yet, just when I loose you
>You crawl back in
>To the temple of SCK
>To the corner of my cage
>My freedom and my boredom, you take them all away
>
>It's not 'cause of shrimp-addiction that cause me to puke
>With humble desire I hop, step, and jump
>And, just when I find you
>I stuff myself
>To the salty dream
>To the bottom of my dream
>I munch you and pinch you till you vanish away
>
>
>Rebecca H. Seung

	Um, why, thank you, Rebecca, I love you, too...

-Hannibal Leckter

-- 
T. H. Brian Chung               | Happiness is...
jfe@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu      | "Tea, Earl Grey, hot."
jfe@cornella.bitnet             | 210 Lake St. Apt. 11-A
CESR10::THC                     | Ithaca, NY 14850
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Re: education system
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:22:08 GMT

In article <1jp57nINNeuf@menudo.uh.edu> wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin) writes:
>The above can be true.  But I have somewhat different experiences.
>When I was in middle school, we had to take high school enterance exam.
>And music was included.  Some of popular questions in music test was :
>
>Given some scores from famous classical music (like Beethoven's 
>Symphony No.5, or Dvorak's Symphony New World, ...etc),  who composed the
>music ? or what is name of the music ?

The selection for this was so limited that I could actually guess the music
based on the composer's name alone (before the music is played).  And how
many of those students will recognize the second movement of the 5th
symphony?

>What surprised me when I came to usa was that most American students
>were too ignorant about the above classical music stuff, but they
>can ACTUALLY play music.  On the contrary, many Koreans think that
>they know music, since they memorized something like the above.

My similar experience in Brazil.  Surprisingly few played the guitar.
Considering that fact that almost everyone in Korea played guitar.  But
those who played were very, very good.

>what can they do ?
>I don't know how they teach Music now in Korea.
>I hope the situation be better.

I have no answer.  Let me tell you what I observed.  The school I went to
in Brazil had NO music classes.  Yet, there were plenty of surprising
talents on every annual school music festival ranging from classic to hard
rock (yours truly was one of them).  There is no reason why everyone should
know much about music.  Just give them enough time.  They will go out and
do what they want.  Some of them will learn music BECAUSE THEY WANT TO.
Others will learn something else.  And others will walk the dark side of
life.  But leave them to decide on their own, and let them live their life.

>Moral : Donate your money to Korean Education.

Moral:  Give them freedom.

>|  |   |  |  |  |  W. Woody Jin (wjin@cs.uh.edu)       (o o)      Moo.... 

James Choi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: The "average" culture
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:51:27 GMT

Since I wrote "That's what Korea is good for.  The averages.  The whole
culture is designed for it and it shows." there have been many responses.

The most impressive one was:
tchoi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>American top students are better than Asian top students??????
>Don't make me laugh. Here's a hard FACT (Science, Vol 259, 53 - 58).

I am not sure if he is still laughing (are you?) but this statistics was
precisely what the averages were about and in fact, it supports my
argument.  There is no statistics to support the "top" students thery since
statistics, by definition, is about the averages.

However, some other people indirectly supported my view.  Both Youngwhan
Lee and Andrew SH Kim mistook my statement as "which is better."  My
statement was "Korean system is made for the average."  

Youngwhan Lee:
>I'm sorry to say this but...I find it is pretty silly to argue which one
>is better while the emphasis of the two education systems are totally
>different. It's like comparing orange and apple. 
>
>American education system appears to emphasize encouraging to get freewill 
>and it tends to value more to creation and innovation; Korean education 
>system appears to emphasize getting a better grade all the time and it 
>tends to value more toward application and refinement of idea taught
>in school.

And Mr. Andrew SH Kim:
>Now, which is the better educational system: Korea or America.
>It all depends on what the goal of each respective systems are.
>The goals are different, IMO and thus cannot be judged so easily
>from a single criterion.  Let me explain.

>Now as far as American system goes, it is a very individual
>based system.  The individualism is valued and encouraged
>in this type of system.   The price this system pay for
>accomodating diverse individual is that the average
>education level of graduate suffers.  The pressure to get
>into a prestigious institution is much much less.  Instead
>a person(teenager) has choice to dictate his destiny far
>more than in Korea.[...]

>Well, enough of this babble.  Then, you may ask which
>system is better.  I say, depends on what is your criteria(on)
>for judging one system to another.  From an individual level,
>person such as myself, and I also assume James, US system is much
>much better.  But, for these who feel much more at ease in
>environment which all the decision are pre-selected for you,
>then Korean system is much better.  However, if we were
>to look at this from a wholistic point of view, I guess
>one can say Korean system churns out more higher quality
>graduates per capita.  But, to this answer one can ask, at what cost?
>and whether such system promotes creativity?  And one more
>thing to consider, America is not a homogeneous society
>like Korea; think what implication this have on transplanting
>Korean/Japanese system to America.

James Choi, the comedian that makes people with statistics laugh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Subject: Re: Can you really study with 4 hours of sleep?
Reply-To: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:25:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.004008.1610@news.acns.nwu.edu> phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi) writes:
>Now that we are on a very Korean culture topic: education...
>
>I did not go through the college entrance hell in Korea.  But I was often
>told they study sleeping 4 hours a day.

Well, parents always tell the kids how tough their time was compared to
ours.  And try to use that to motivate them.

It is also used to those who went to highschool outside Korea to tell them
"I studied harder than you did.  You guys had such an easy time.  You
wouldn't have made it there.  BlahBlahBlah"

>
>Is it true that you slept 4 hours a day everyday?

Hogwash.  It's about as believable as Jesse Jackson becoming Korean
president.

Acutally, I can't speak for others.  There might be some individuals who
did that, but I suspect that's because of DSB which is at its peak, not
because of study.

You do have to work harder than you would in here, I suppose.  There were
times I slept less than 4 hours, or none at all, but everyday?  Please.

>With all respect, I have another question.  What you study anyway?  If such
>intense studying has resulted in massive knowledge, it seems to be well
>concealed.  I am yet to be blown out by overwhelming knowledge of a Korea
>person who went throught this 4-hours-a-day-sleep march to more knowledge.

You study how to score well on the test.  Sometimes you memorize things
like "What is the name of the Roman empror's second brother-in-law when
Koryo built this temple which is the second-oldest one in Asia?"
Sometimes you actually study to understand, only because that helps you to
score better too.  

In terms of knowledge, it's called "Trickle-down education".  If you are
taught that much, you are bound to remember something.  One benefit that I
can think of is that they cover such broad subjects, it helps you to where
to look for if I wanted to find out about something.  You also learn how to
manage your time efficiently in studying.  

>
>James Choi

Andy Kim