From: johng@oce.orst.edu (John A. Gregor)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: My daughter needs to be more assertive (II)
Date: 21 Jan 1993 12:02:41 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, College of Oceanography
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: speedy.oce.orst.edu

In article <1993Jan20.201519.640@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:
 
Ruth,
 
> And I think its due to her inexperience or whatever, and I think I
> have an obligation to provide guidance (if not coercion).

This sentence reminds me of a phrase.  It begins something like: "You
can lead a horse to water..."

You have done far more than just lead.  You dug the well, purified the
water, built the trough, and chased away the predators.  I can
understand your frustration at your daughter's lack of thirst.  But the
fact still remains that you are losing control over your daughter's
life.  If she is bound and determined to be something or not be
something, there is precious little you can do about it any more other
than make life hell for both of you at the same time.

I think you should look at the plusses for a moment.  You've given her a
strong role model.  Perhaps she doesn't appreciate that trait now, and I
can't promise that she ever will, but you have shown a strength that few
people have.  You have given her a good set of tools to deal with later
life.  Again, it is probably impossible to realize this considering your
current troubles; but consider, how much better equipped is this girl
than you were at her age?  Even if she does screw up, she has many more
options available to her than you did.  

But the most important thing that I think she has going for her is that
she won't be abandoned at 18.  Hopefully you two will not sever the link
completely over this.  You understand the need for support from family
doesn't end at some arbitrary date.  But you definitely are confusing
'support' with 'control/dominate'.  Perhaps this is due to a lack of
role models in your life.  Perhaps you are using the same skills that
have worked for you in getting you where you are.  Unfortunately, dogged
persistence won't yield the same results with your daughter as they did
for your career.

I think you need to learn that letting go is not the same abandonment
as "You're 18, fend for yourself."  This does not mean that you must
always be the ATM.  But, neither can you use money as the carrot and the
stick to get her to do what you want her to do.  I knew a few kids like
that in college; led around by the nose or risk the loss of funds.  They
were spineless, broken, sullen, unmotivated, and generally very fucked
up people.  If you want to pay for school, more power to you!  I think
it is one of the best gifts a parent can ever give.  If you have
constraints on the caliber of the school, the location, her academic
performance, etc. list them ahead of time with the rationale.  Don't use
it as leverage at every opportunity (e.g. "I don't like your attiude,
keep it up and you'll be sweeping floors to go to Commmunity College").
But make your constraints rational and relevent.  And stick to them!
By 18 the nagging should stop.  Cause-and-effect should be enough.

Now, back to the college thing.  Do you have an academic/philosophical
beef against this school?  Or is it just the fact that it is the pawn
being used by your daughter in this battle of wills that annoys you?
Considering her attitude/ambitions the fact that she has any motivation
for ANY college is pretty good.  What's the worst thing that can happen?
If she likes it and toughs it out, she'll get a degree and hopefully an
educations.  If she doesn't, perhaps she'll re-evaluate and apply
elsewhere.  But if things are as strained as you make them sound, you
run a very high risk that she's going to up an marry the first X-tian
guy who makes a pass at her and start cranking out babies and co-depend
and passive-aggress them into oblivion.  And she might end up doing
that anyway.  But anything that defuses the situation and gives her four
more years to decompress and think about things sounds like a good bet.
Probably the best you're going to get.

Please don't blow this off as merely PC-ness.  You're setting off alarms
in a wide variety of people, and they are all saying that YOU are the
only variable in this relationship that YOU can change, regardless of
what YOU may want, need, or know. 

Just for the record, I think you are right and she is wrong also.
Regardless of that, you won't *win* this battle.  But, how YOU choose to
fight this determines how deep of a hole she digs herself into before
YOU give up.  She has a weapon at her disposal that you don't: the
power and willingness to absolutely destroy her life before giving in.

Life sucks sometimes.
-JohnG

P.S. Rent "Parenthood" if you haven't watched it lately.

P.P.S. (engage psychobabble) You might be trying to protect yourself
more than you think in all of this.  You've spent almost half your life
burning the candle at both ends, and doing without.  For what?  For your
daughter?  What does it all mean to you when she's gone?  What does it
all mean to you if she doesn't view your life of sacrifice as a gift?
Where are YOU going to be 10 years from now?  I may have this all wrong.
But soon, for the first time in your adult life, you won't have a kid to
take care of.  This can be *very* hard on some people.
-- 
         John A. Gregor			USmail:	College of Oceanography
 E-mail: johng@oce.orst.edu			Oregon State University
Voice #: +1 503 737-3022			Oceanography Admin Bldg. #104
  Fax #: +1 503 737-2064			Corvallis, OR  97331-5503
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens