HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (pinkerton floyd)
Subject: VR (was Re: Just TRY and thread this message, punk!
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 22:31:44 GMT

In article <Po35RB1w165w@entropy.mcds.com> morpheus@entropy.mcds.com
(morpheus) writes: 
|carlsoje@cda.mrs.umn.edu (Joel E. Carlson 1625773) writes:
|
|> No god, no country, no king, just a bunch of freaks linked up in love!
|
|Wow.. what have you been smoking?  Can I have some?
|
|Maybe a good definition of virtual reality would be "A mind-altering substance
|one can send over an email link" (well, sorta)

The best definition of the popular image of vr is probably "a
consensual hallucination" which is how Gibson described the Matrix in
Neuromancer.....Gee, it's difficult to see why Timothy Leary's so into
it! :) 

|I'm waiting to be able to run down to the local K-Mart and buy a box of VR..

I'd settle for acid at this point...

|--
|Let's watch the world fall apart.        (morpheus@entropy.mcds.com)

--
 ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu   FutureCulture E-List: [future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu]
 andy (hawkeye)         new edge, technoculture, cyberpunk, virtual reality,
                        raves, etc. Home of the famous :) FutureCulture FAQ!
 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: SNAKE EYES (was Beyond Mirrorshades)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:49:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.174022.1@hamp.hampshire.edu>, dcohan@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>> Though I should know better than to ask such questions, what did you
>> find disappointing in that ending?
> 
> I was very intrigued by the notion that after neural implants into a
> human subject caused that subject to not get along with himself.  Meaning:
> in the cyberpunk genre of sf, we're always hearing about implants being
> done and everything is peachy-keen, no problems attached.  Your short 
> story, _Snake Eyes_, was the first to explore the notion that the 
> integration of man and machine might not go so smoothly, and that the 
> man might reject the machine or vice versa.
> 
> I was dissapointed because I didnt want George Jordan to live.  I found
> that having him "conquer" the snake (or cat) and find a soulmate in the
> process very dissastifying.  Kind of hollywoodish (no offense intented)
> ending where things "work out".  I suppose I wanted a gloomier ending,
> with the prospects of neural implants carrying a certain amount of 
> uncertainty and danger with them.
> 
> Perhaps I was looking for something in your story that wasn't what you
> intended, and if so, I appologize for my earlier remark.
> 
> -dEBBIE

This is an interesting thread, so I hope you two don't mind if I jump in.
Debbie, my take was not so much that George conquered the snake (or cat)
as that he *adapted.* One of the stages of the adapatation was his
thing of exhibiting that he would be willing to die, rather than let the
machine part completely dominate. In a sense,it was a process of
*taming.* 

Maybe finding luv in the process was a bit much, but then again maybe not.
Mating is fundamental to an organism between certain ages, and if George
could not have had the possibility of successfully mating, then his
*adaptation* would not have been viewed as totally successful either.
Or, indeed, his taming of the snake -- which, after all, was what the
story was about.

Regards, Lou
From: TimKordas@cwru.edu (Timothy Kordas)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Anger in Cyberpunk
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:40:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: b62144.student.cwru.edu
Summary: In Neuromancer etc. There's no Anger!?

In article <pvanheus.719133311@frodo> pvanheus@frodo.cs.uct.ac.za (P A van Heusden) writes:
>From: pvanheus@frodo.cs.uct.ac.za (P A van Heusden)
>Subject: Anger in Cyberpunk
>Summary: In Neuromancer etc. There's no Anger!?
>Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:15:11 GMT
>My background in Cyberpunk is far from complete: The only CP I know is
>Gibson's Neuromancer, Count Zero, etc series, Burning Chrome, Walter John
>Williams' Hardwired, and John Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar. (Although Brunner
>is not true CP IMHO)
>
>What I've found strange about all these authors is that while there is much
>activity towards freedom, in fact the protagonist is often on a freedom trip,
>though most often freedom through escape into a medium such as the Net or
>being jacked into a panzer, there is little anger. Like, noone is standing 
>there and saying 'Fuck the Corps!'. I wonder why? The prime emotions seem to
>be the burning aesthetic of Tech, and the cold sadness of defeat. This pattern
>occurs in both Neuromancer and Hardwired. Basically it is the up and running
>cowboys, burning around the galaxy of burnt out has beens. Again - sadness,
>no anger. Why? I sure am angry at the corps, at the people who are screwing
>our world so drastically. Sure, I love running through the Net as it is now, 
>the sheer adrenaline rush of having the Net as an extra sense, but that's not
>the be and end all of life. Anyway: Has anyone else noticed this pattern, and
>does anyone know why it is so?

It seems to me that the way the characters are generally presented 
(especially by Gibson IMO) that any anger they may have experienced is past. 
Now the only response is a depseration to feel free--a desperation that 
supercedes all else.

For example Case experienced anger about his crippling before the story 
actaully begins. When we "meet" him he has already gone far beyond anger, 
he understands the hopelessness of his situation. Additionally when 
something is the "norm," so accepted that to question it is (in CP fiction 
especially) is to die. Imagine if you had grown up in a world such as 
Gibson's or Sterling's vision of the dark future, there could not be 
anything to direct your anger against, accept (possibly) yourself.



-Tim Kordas
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: casting Armitage
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:34:04 GMT

In article 6036@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, jbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James S Brown) writes:
.
> 
> The thing about him was his eyes.  I was afraid to glance over his shoulder to
> the door, because he had me pinned with these eyes.  I didn't quite know what
> Gibson meant when he said that Armitage's eyes were so pale they reminded Case
> of bleach, not until I met this guy.  And every now and then I'd say something 
> to him and he'd just look at me, like I'd suddenly started speaking a language 
> he couldn't understand.  And his eyes would glaze over.  He was telling me 
> about being a Ranger when I made the Armitage connection, and I was almost 
> drunk enough to try to explain it to him, but he was already upset, so I kept 
> my mouth shut, and when he went to the can, I left.
> 
> When I was a kid I always thought it would be neat to meet characters out of 
> books, but that was one encounter I could have done without.  He didn't really 
> look like Rutger Hauer, but he was like him somehow--know what I mean?
> -- 
> "If this is supposed to be satire, I don't get it.  If it's not, then 
> somebody's in bad shape."        --Sam Shepard, Rolling Thunder Logbook
> 
>                Jim Brown [jbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu]


he was stoned and if he was a ranger he may or may not have been dangerous ... listen when u are in a situation like that just play it cool like u did.. i am from brooklyn, meet guys in bars like that all the time .. bno big deal ... 

just gauge what mood he is in and play it from there .... 

---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------
From: bliss32@terapin.com (Geoff Schmidt)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: reality?
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:59:05 GMT
Organization: BBS

No one needs Anarchy to have a CP future.  Itll be just like an extension of
what happens now, there are laws.  A lot of them, people just dont care and
ignore them.  The CP people that is, there ARE normal type people in a CP
world, which Gibson shows in Count Zero, I think (using CP world as Gibsons CP
world, whihc is about all I can base since I have read very few other real CP
books besides Gibsons, at least enough to give me a feel for the place)...

Anyways, the people just dont care about the laws, they care more about
suriving any wya they can...

 bliss
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:07:25 GMT
Subject: Please Help
Organization: HP Western Response Center
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk

              Please answer these 9 questions and return.

1.) Do you think equal rights for men and women is generally a good idea?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

2.) Are you pro choice?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

3.) Are you in favor of adoption?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

4.) Do you think men should be allowed to legally terminate their parental
rights and responsibilities before fetal viability?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

5.) What sex are you?
Male               [ ]
Female             [ ]

6.) How old are you?
Under 18           [ ]
19 to 65           [ ]
Over 65            [ ]

7.) What religion are you?
Protestant         [ ]
Catholic           [ ]
Jewish             [ ]
Other              [ ]

8.) What political party are you affiliated with?
Democratic         [ ]
Republican         [ ]
Other              [ ]

9.) How many years of education have you completed?
Grade School       [ ]
High School        [ ]
College            [ ]
More               [ ]
From: marc@remarque.berkeley.edu (Marc DeGroot)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Post-cascades (was Re: U2)
Date: 11 Oct 1992 19:24:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <EeplCF_00YV7A1smYh@andrew.cmu.edu> wg2b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Scott Gregory) writes:
>You multi-cellular organisms think you're so talented!  Humbug!  Try
>typing without any appendages...

Oh to be unicellular.  Breaking up and making love are the same thing...

-- 
Marc de Groot (KG6KF) San Francisco |
Internet: marc@kg6kf.ampr.org       |      "Penny for your thoughts, twenty
UUCP: ..!uunet!hoptoad!noe!marc     |          cents for your paradigm."
Packet radio: KG6KF @ K3MC          |
From: wendell.martin@the-matrix.com (Wendell Martin) 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: RE: GREETINGS
Date: 12 Oct 92 12:38:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The MATRIX BBS - Birmingham, AL - 205-323-2016
Reply-To: wendell.martin@the-matrix.com (Wendell Martin) 

Hey, Sean,

Maybe you should get in touch with davidson@ccrs.emr.ca (David Davidson)
a.k.a the drunk cyberpunk - a similar lack of reality seems to bind
you.

Bis Spaeter,

Wendell
                                                                           
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: acsbk@UMASSD.EDU
Subject: Re: reality?
Reply-To: acsbk@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:52:33 GMT


>Man, I couldn't disagree more.  All the microprocessor manufacturers are
>optimistic about packing more and more transistors more and more densely
>on a single die.  I think Intel's using a .85 micron technology for the 486,
>and there next step is to .6 or so, then .35.  Witness DEC's new 150 Mzh
>Alpha chip.  

just in a brief note.. we can't get past the .85 micron scale. 
a micron is a millionth of an inch, and so is an electron. 
The jumpers in a chip would never reset because the distance
would be less that the width of the electron. We can do
quality control to the .5 micron range now, but it will do us no good
until we get away from electricity. 

On another note, or perhaps another cord.. 1. 'Russia' has been
on B.T. Tymnet for years now., and 2. we will next see not
the processor speed go up, but the _processing_ speed.
I doubt we will go to/past the 128 bit register, but rather
parallel 64 bit ones.

Also, the Alpha is a 64 bit through 100 mhz chip, and perhaps
with cache and coprocessors it goes to 150, but it is a 100mhz
clock speed chip. Also watch out for Intels P5, and keep an
eye on the i80960. It will run at the speed of your 
oscillating crystal, unlike the 80486, which runs at half
your crystal and only goes 60mhz. The addressing and pin outs
on the 80960 are supposed to be identical to those of 
the 80486 plus the added ones ( i beleive it is 64 through,
i'll have to look it up..) so that means that 386 and 486
software will be upward compatible.

Bret Kulakovich,
ACSBK@UMASSD.EDU

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy)
Subject: Re: reality?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 22:40:14 GMT

In article <423@tnl.com> cobb@tnl.com (john cobb) writes:
|relax.  you worry too much.
|everything is just fine.
|work hard
|multiply
|drink coffee
|sleep
|conform
|dan quail is a great man
|i'm ok.  your ok.  george bush is looking out for you.

ahem, i'm pretty sure the follow-ups of this guy's posts should be
sent to alt.drugs....:)

--
 ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu   FutureCulture E-List: [future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu]
 andy (hawkeye)         new edge, technoculture, cyberpunk, virtual reality,
                        raves, etc. Home of the famous :) FutureCulture FAQ!
 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (pinkerton floyd)
Subject: Re: reality?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 14:04:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.024544.28518@highlite.uucp> mike@highlite.uucp
(Mike Wiik) writes: 
|
|Anarchy isn't gonna happen in the classic sense of bringing down the gov't
|thru protest/terrorism/civil war etc. It'll be (and is) more like *ignoring*
|authoritarian signals as they become more and more *irrelvent*. I under-
|stand that copying copywrited software recently became a felony. That's
|the kind of law I like: millions of otherwise law-abiding Americans made
|into felons overnight. Sound familiar?
|	-Mike

Well, first of all, it's only a felony if you get caught.  Second of
all, like you said, that law is practically irrelevant to the avaergae
person - sounds to me like a way to ensure jail time for hackers,
since software piracy and hacking often go hand in hand.  So that may
be one of those laws that *is* relevant - not on the surface, but it's
just another way to keep oppressing a group the government fears.

--
 ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu   FutureCulture E-List: [future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu]
 andy (hawkeye)         new edge, technoculture, cyberpunk, virtual reality,
                        raves, etc. Home of the famous :) FutureCulture FAQ!
From: tordm@vand (Tord G.M. Malmgren)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: industrial- vs. information society
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:47:16 GMT
Reply-To: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden

In article <1992Oct16.191704.15563@u.washington.edu>, richter@hardy.u.washington.edu (Josef Richter) writes:

>> it's like at around the 60's we started going into an information society, or
>>is it me miss-interpreting everybody's use of the word "industrial" ?
>>or should we use "new industrial age" like "new age" ? what's the next
>>stage?? push the button and all available services are displayed, pick
>>your choice, and voila(!) there you go!

>     I would define an "age" as a period of time with a certain economic
>processes... an information society (InSoc) would be a period of time
>where information, rather than gold or labor, would be the most 
>valuable commodity. I think that to a large degree, we're in an 
>info-based economy already... and have been easing into one for quite
>a while. We didn't start entering an InSoc in the 1960's... we started
>in the 1860's. 

 maybe this is why there is a confusion -- in some cases an InSoc is
defined as when a majority of the population is working within the
information system. In most industrial countries (to use a well known
term) most people (around 50% I'd claim) are working with information,
and about 30% within services, so that doesn't leave much industrial jobs,
does it?

[...]
>But now... just take a look at tech, intelligence, chemical formulas.
>     The future is now, eh?

 yeah, this was my thought; we're living in the future, but don't
always realize it, and dream away into a fantasy-world that already
exist, though maybe not in the same romantic fashion as in novels...


OB-cyberpunk: we're living in a cyberpunk society already if you
disregard some of the most far-out stuff. if you want to be street
smart, sure, hang-out in some red district areas; if you want violence,
sure, provoke it; if you want blip-information, sure, punch your deck;
if you want to see some really fucked up persons such as Case and his
"friends" in W. Gibson's "Neuromancer", sure, there are tons of them;
if you want to see Molly, sure, there are wild bitches, not with
steel razor-blade sharp nails and mirror eyes, but they'd kick your ass...
And so on.. just take a look around you -- maybe we should rename this
group to alt.reality? :-)




---------------+--------------------------------
 Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my OWN,
               | BITNet  : TordM@SESUF51        | and NOT of this department!
---------------+--------------------------------
 Department of Physics, University of Stockholm
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: cfuentes@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Carlos A. Fuentes Jr.)
Subject: Re: Oliver Stone as CP filmmaker
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:19:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.064710.10307@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00vmszopa@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
>
>	After watching _Wall Street_ again tonight, I wonder if
>Oliver Stone isn't the cyberpunk film representative: jumpy, intoxicating,
>often brilliant, and suffused with paranoia.  He examines the constructions 
[stuff deleted]
>	The difference here is that Stone _intended_ to bring the future
>closer to home.

The other day I was flipping through my copy of the graphic novel
_The Watchmen_, thinking how the directing style Stone used in _JFK_
(with a little bit of whatsisname that did _Alien_ & _Bladerunner_
thrown in for the boom shots) would fit like a glove if _The Watchmen_
could ever be possibly squeezed into a 3-hr movie.  It was for pretty
much the same reasons as you mentioned above.  IMHO, _The Watchmen_
has the same disjointed, paranoid "look and feel" you described for
CP (tho I'm not calling _The Watchmen_ a CP novel).

    -Carlos

"Don't you think that sounds a bit paranoid, Rorshach?"
"Paranoid? Is that what they're saying about me?"
   -Inexact quote from _The Watchmen_

>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>00vmszopa@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu     Ball State Univ.       Vinney Szopa
>When data is transmitted by mucous, your modem will be your nose.
^^^^ Brings new meaning to computer virus!
From: BDA108@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: neuromancer the movie?
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:05:02 GMT
 <1992Oct9.182509.3019@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
 <1992Oct12.094236.24398@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au>
Organization: Penn State University

I agree with the commect that the rummored cast is inappropriate.  Possibly
Paul Newman would make a good Armitage, but the other two...
Maybe it would be better if they just left it as a book and don't screw it up
like so many other good books turned movie.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial
From: wmcrews@eos.ncsu.edu (jame clark)
Subject: Re: Industrial music, hey!
Originator: wmcrews@c00071-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: wmcrews@eos.ncsu.edu (james clark)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:20:55 GMT



In article <1992Oct11.195841.10726@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> it is writen:
|> Alright, alright, alright, maybe I was too harsh its just I think Ministry
|> and NIN , and Nitzer Ebb as long as we're at it cater to a much more
|> commercial sphere of "fuckheads" - (a NE term, don't blame me!)
 
 true.  however, the bands you list later are in my local record store as
well.  big labels?  cd's in the mall? that's pretty commercial as well.  mind
you, i haven't seen all of those groups at the mall, but some of 'em.

|> So maybe new Ministry is cool to thrash to.

 yeah, but a bit tedious as well. :-)

|> Ay, furthermore. AL FUCKING JOURGENSEN CALLED THE FIRST TWO MINISTRY ALBUMS
|> "JUST CRAP TO PLEASE THE RECORD COMPANIES" IN MANYT RECENT INTERVIEWS SO
|> I FEEL JUSTIFIED IN BEING HARSH IN EXPOSING THEIR LAST ALBUM AS POSEUR
|> SHITE.
|> NEXT WHEN AL IS DOING SOUTHERN_FRIED ROCK HE'LL BE CALLING LORAH SHITE.
|>
  interesting.  in the latest copy of maximum rock and roll (a punk zine) ,
one of the columnists friends got him a part as an extra in ministry's video
for n.w.o.  about 3/4 through the coloum, the author is talking to this 
chick who wanted to wear one of AL's CLIP ON DREADLOCKS!  that is someting
i can't take seriously.

|> So I repeat. Anybody into any _real industrial_
|> Def: _Real Industrial_
|> Hafler Trio
|> Throbbing Gristle
|> Skinny Puppy
|> Cabaret Voltaire
|> Meat Beat Manifesto
|> NON
|> SPK
|> Laibach
|> Einstuerzende Neubaten
|> Crash Worship
|> Foetus
|> Coil
|> 
|> please post, make life more interesting

  hope this has helped.

|> 
|> P H I L  B A N C R O F T
|> 
|> JOHN CAGE IS STILL DEAD
|> HE HEARD THE NEW MINISTRY ALBUM
|> 
 james (etc.)
From: cobb@tnl.com (john cobb)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: U2
Summary: oui vey...
Date: 12 Oct 92 11:11:26 GMT
Organization: The Northern Lights, Troy NY

<1992Oct9.024448.24496@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
 
 
 
he went to the bathroom, so now we can talk.  i hate the
food he gives me.  same old thing, one can in the morning,
a little 'dry food' which actually tastes like it looks -
cardboard.
you'd think he would get me a lobster or something - i'm
feline and feline's historically like seafood.  but no.
crap from a can.
-
could someone write him and tell him it's ok to warm up cat food
while it's still in the can in the microwave?  i'll watch his fat
a.. jump when the sparks fly.   it's cold in this house and he
won't turn the heat on.
-
and for the rest of you with cats - ever smell that stuff you've
been feeding us?  think we like it?