From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: Describing techniques in words - Yuk!
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:31:58 CST

WARNING - LONGISH!

In article <11564@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>A couple possible proposals:
>
>Use of the terms inside/outside to refer to general movements with
>respect to the body in question. 

I'd rather not use 'inside/outside'... there was quite a lot of
verbage here a while ago when people fumbled all over themselves
trying to figure out if "an inside block" was a block moving
from the outside TOWARDS the inside, or STARTING FROM the inside
and moving to the *outside*... Can't we just use 'left and right'?
>
>Use of terms cross-handed or same-handed to indicate the spacial
>relationship between the two opponents. I think this works especially
>well, since it seems more relevent that using left and right, since
>techniques should work on both sides!

I agree that techniques should work for both left and right, but I
think the terms 'cross-handed' and 'same-handed' are confusing - at
least to me. Let's just describe techniques using "attacker's left
hand" and "your right foot" and let people mirror image the move
for themselves later on. 

Your use of 'cross-handed' and 'same-handed' in your "simple"
example confused me... but then, not only am I light-headed
from a head-cold at the moment, there are a few on the net
who I'm sure would argue I'm just dim.

>
>Ex.
>
>Opponent throws a high punch with right hand. I counter with a
>cross-handed block on the inside, 

...  at this point, I honestly don't know whether 'cross-handed' means 
     your left hand (the one "across" from his right), or maybe your
     right hand (the one diagonally 'across'), or maybe you meant 
     either your right hand or your left hand blocks by moving *across* 
     his arm (as opposed to an upward or downward block, joint technique, 
     etc.) ... but I don't know whether to the 'inside' or to the 'outside'...

>control the arm with the same-side hand,

... here I was confused again. Did you mean same-side as in, on the same
    side of the room as his attacking hand (meaning his right, your left?) 
    or the same-side as in, his-right, your-right ("same" side of the body)?

> and strike high with the initial blocking hand. 

>I think we still need left/right, compass points and the like, but the
>above three descriptors seem to be pretty generic to me, and should work
>well, and be more compact. 
>

I find that left/right and clock-face directions work well. The 'Good
Guy' is always assumed to be facing 12:00 (no, it's not military time!).

And I'd suggest that we avoid all "buzz words" if at all possible (no
"and then you apply an 'atemi wazi uke tensho dai yakuza whizbang' 
followed by a 'tiger meets crane under the yellow ribbon on the old
oak tree in the winter storm' stance" stuff.)

It takes a lot of words to be precise, and, of course, you can't 
convey ALL the nuances. But that's my suggestions. For those of you
who don't want to read any further, quit now, I've made my suggestion. 
For those of you who would like to read an example or two of the method 
I am proposing, read on.

For example, if I were to re-write David's example 'my' way (not that I'm 
sure I understand what he meant!) I would phrase it something like:

- Bad Guy is attacking from 12:00.
- You are standing feet shoulder-width apart, hands at sides.
- Bad Guy thows a high punch with HIS right hand.
- You block his incoming arm with your left arm by:
  - moving your left hand and arm in a circular motion up from your 
    side, over to your right, such that on a *vertical* clockface, 
    your elbow has not moved more than an inch or two to the right, 
    but your hand has swept counter-clockwise from 6:00 to 2:00. 
    (I could get specific about hand position, eg, fist/open-hand,
     palm facing 12:00, etc. and what part of the arm is facing 12:00, 
     eg, fleshy part or boney part <No Napoleon jokes!> but I'll skip
     that level of detail for now)
  - You continue your motion moving the arm primarily from the shoulder
    such that your left arm ends up to the left of your body, fist/hand
    about shoulder height, and elbow bent so that the arm is as close
    to the body as you can manage.
- You control the bad guy's right arm with your right arm by:
  - etc. 
- You strike his throat with your left hand by:
  - etc.

For example, to describe the opening moves of our version of nihanchi
(one of our kata), I'd say (skipping the salute part):

Starting Position:
- (after the salute) your starting position is facing 12:00. Your legs
  are together, knees bent, heels together, toes pointing towards 10:30
  and 1:30 (just trying to give an example of degree of subtlety!) and
  your arms extend down with your hands crossing at approximately groin
  height. your left hand is open/flat , with fingers and thumb touching,
  fingers pointing down-and-to-the-right as a natural extension of the
  angle of your left arm. Your right hand is in a fist. Your right hand
  is closer to your body than your left hand, such that, to someone 
  looking at you from 12:00, your left hand hides your fist. The palm
  of your left hand should be touching the back of your right fist. 

First Move:
- "Bad Guy" is at 3:00. 
- Look at him, and stay looking at him.
- Pretend your hands are nailed in air precisely where they are right
  now and in exactly that position. 
- Your left foot crosses in front of your right leg, to take one step
  to your right (towards 3:00). If someone took a snap shot of you in
  this position, your left leg would be crossed in front of your right
  leg at about knee height, toes of both feet should still be pointing
  towards 12:00. Even though your body has started to move to your
  right, your hands and arms should still be trying to remain where
  they were when you started. This means your right elbow is now bent 
  at about 90 degrees, your right arm is crossing your body, your right
  fist is near the bottom of the left side of your ribcage and your left 
  arm is bent at the elbow such that your elbow is nearing shoulder height. 
  The reason for having your hands trailing like this is that this provides
  an automatic wind-up for the backfist you are about to do with your
  right hand.
- Your left foot now moves and takes a step to the right, all toes still
  pointing toward 12:00, knees still bent, feet about shoulder width
  apart. Your right elbow should move towards 3:00 drawing your fist 
  across your your body close to your chest. When your right elbow can't 
  go any farther to the right, begin to unfold your arm so your fist 
  continues to your right and "hits" the "Bad Guy" at an above-his-
  collarbones target of your choice. Your fist should be no lower than 
  your own shoulder height. You are about to grab the "Bad Guy's" head
  and slam it into your left elbow/forearm, so your left arm can pretty 
  much be right where you left it before, but it's time to make your left 
  hand into a fist.

...etc.
So, that's an example of REALLY being simplistic in describing the moves.
It does take a lot of words, but I don't think there's as much confusion
with that level of precision. Again, the 'right/left', and the 'clockface'
concepts (whether it be 'horizontal', as in, "the bad guy is behind you
at 6:00", or 'vertical', as in "the hand sweeps from the waist at 6:00
counter-clockwise up to 2:00") work well for me. 

When I see a lot of non-english words describing techniques, my eyes
glaze over. On the other hand, my eyes are pretty glazed over right
now anyway, so I think I will go home and put my cold to bed (sniff).

My .00000364129 cents .....

-Lauren