HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From:         LBCOTTER@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU
Subject:      Harrier jet performance in Desert Storm
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:07:05 GMT


From         LBCOTTER@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU

I've been trying (since yesterday) to find information on the performance of
the Harrier II jet that the Marines used during Operation Desert Storm.
The student who needs the information would like to know things such as the
number of missions flown, targets, and other stuff (not technical specification
s, which are readily available).  We've checked various indexes to current
periodicals, the back issues of _Marines_ magazine, indexes to U.S. government
publications, and I've suggested that he look in other periodicals such as
Aviation Week and Space Technology, Armed Forces Journal International, Nationa
l Defense, etc.

Do you know of other places I might look for unclassified information?  I am al
so planning to askthe Army War College library if they have any information.

Thanks.

--Michael Cotter, Joyner Library, East Carolina University

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: wdr@world.std.com (William D Ricker)
Subject: Re: V-22 Osprey crash ?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:04:01 GMT


From wdr@world.std.com (William D Ricker)

Wire service reports indicate that the V-22 prototype that crashed 
on approach had just completed severe environmental testing in Florida
(simulated extremes of heat, cold, wind & rain in torture chambers),
and that it was possible that this could have a causal connection to
the in=flight event, whatever it was, that resulted in the tragic loss
of craft, crew, and passengers.  I forget the figures quoted, but the
temperature and inches/hour of rain were impressive.  

I can certainly understand *why* the Marines want this bird.  The specs
I've seen (sorry, not on hand) look really nice (one of the sub-contractors
was giving out spec-sheets at *software* recruiting fairs! shows ton-hour
profiles by altitude/temperature).  If they can work out the transition
bugs -- which I guess by now are traditional in in-flight-geometry-changers
like the Aardvark/F111, Concorde, and V-22 Osprey, and get the weight down
so that the payload ratio is as advertised (advancing a generation of 
avionics might cure that?  Or replacing some more metal with composites?
the over-weight figure sited by Cheney as making it worth killing didn't
sound too bad in a flying prototype to me).
-- wdr 

[PS: I only recently picked up the novel by a V-22 booster: it's called
"HAMMERHEAD", with a pic of the osprey on the cover.  The author has
decided that elite Marine airborne units using the Osprey will be
called hammerheads based on the look of the bird, and that they'll be
used (ala CLear and Present Danger) to kick drug-running butt in Latin
America, if I understand the jacket blurbs -- I haven't read it yet; I
fear it's already disappeared from the remainderers, I got it second
hand.  But if you want to see what her boosters think she can do,
this is what to look for.  --wdr]

-- 
Bill Ricker wdr@world.std.com      "The freedom of the press belongs 
(formerly wdr@wang.com)             to those who own one."

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: gawne@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Officer Pilots
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 13:29:36 GMT


From gawne@stsci.edu

In article <1992Jul16.200158.1519@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>,
 ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:

[most of previous postings deleted]

> Individual *initative* is discouraged in both places.
> Many colleges don't care if you show up for class or do homework. All they
> care is whether you pass the exams or not. This lack of *imposed* structure
> requires you to develop skills of self discipline and initative if you are
> to graduate. Obviously neither boot camp nor college are 100% effective
> in their objectives. Many NCOs still have a shred of initative left in
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> them and many college graduates never learn to be self motivated. Still
> the training in both cases leads in those directions.
> 
> Gary

I do believe there was a time when the satisfaction of honor would have
required you to converse with my second for this sort of comment.  However
I digress.

Ever since I made Corporal I have been rated in terms of leadership 
qualities and traits -- one of which is initiative.  And the last time
I went by OCS it sure seemed like a lot of imposed structure to me.
I gather you've known some scummy NCO's, so have I.  But the system does
build initiative and self motivation, at least the one I've spent 20 years
in as a Marine, and the ones my brothers have spent time in with the Army
and the Navy.  There's a heck of a lot more to training than boot camp.

Since I'm going out to 29 Palms for the next couple of weeks to participate
in an exercise, please reply by e-mail.

-Bill Gawne, Space Telescope Science Institute
 GySgt USMCR
From: arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: depleted uranium
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:00:25 GMT
Organization: Columbia University


From arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger)

Question:what are the advantages to using depleted uranium in ammunition? 
How long until succesfully destroyed targets can be scrapped or cannibalized?
Aaron

_______________________________________________________________________________
Aaron Wininger                               Columbia Plasma Physics Laboratory
arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu                                  New York, NY 10027
_______________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Subject: Re: B52 Question
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:24:48 GMT


From sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)

David M. Faubert writes
> 
> From van-bc!mdavcr.mda.ca!faubert@uunet.UU.NET (David M. Faubert)
> 
> 
> I was reading this book about bombers which said something along the lines:
> "A B52 taking off under full water injection." It's probably something  
simple,
> but the book did not elaborate. At any rate, someone please indulge my
> curiosity as to what this means. Any extra info about B52 engines would be
> interesting too.

Injected water into the combustion chamber along with increased fuel flow.   
Running more fuel increased thrust, but increased temperature too.  Water  
increased thrust, and cooled the exhaust to bearable temperatures.  You can get  
more thrust out of the engine, but the fuel consumption is bad.  Think of it as  
afterburner for non-hi-permformance engines.

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: jjian@tsoft.sf-bay.org (City Hunter)
Subject: Re: Officers
Organization: The TeleSoft BBS and Public Access Unix, +1 415 969 7958
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 13:29:57 GMT


From jjian@tsoft.sf-bay.org (City Hunter)

In article <1992Jul17.191321.28318@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> crowl@jade.cs.orst.edu (Lawrence Crowl) writes:
>
>The People's Republic of China adopted a rank structure no class distinctions,
>for political reasons related to class being counter-revolutionary, or
>something.  Anyway, they abandoned it as unworkable and went back to the class
>distinction.  I don't know what problems they encountered, but perhaps some
>enterprising person...
>
The People's Liberation Army (PLA) of PRC went back to the traditional class 
distinction along the lines of ex-soviet style in 1988(?) after almost 30 years
of no ranking system. Besides the desires of the officer corp to be able to
distinguish from ordinary soldiers, other reasons included a ranking system
makes a more professional army. As to the problems encountered, the one that
I know of is that during Sino-Vietnamese conflict of 1979, there were confusionsamong the troops about who's in command due to the fact that there is no way
to distinguish ranks of commanders of different units (ie when two companies
are suppose to fight as a task force, both company commanders think they are 
in command because there is no way to tell who is senior.)
From: rlbell@babbage.waterloo.edu (Richard Bell)
Subject: Re: Tracers
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:45:40 GMT


From rlbell@babbage.waterloo.edu (Richard Bell)

In article <1992Jul28.130819.25639@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
>
>I'd be surprised indeed if DU wasn't radioactive, but my guess is
>that the DU forms a core within a lead projectile, with the usual 
>gilding metal/soft iron/whatever jacket, and possibly plastic ro-
>tating bands like on the A-10's 30mm cannon. The lead would form a 
>radiation shield. 
>

U238 has an extremely long half-life, and is an alpha emitter; therefore, it
is not very radioactive, and alpha particles cannot penetrate their way out
of a paper bag, so it is hardly dangerous.  I believe (but do not know for
sure) that U238 and unenriched natural uranium (99.28% U238, 0.72% U235) are
only dangerous when ingested.
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Rifled Barrels was Re: Civil War firsts
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:42:21 GMT
Organization: Indiana University


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <1992Jul22.171339.21624@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> John Lerchey <jl4l+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

(of rifled barrels)
 
> Guess this wasn't an American Civil War first after all. :)

Well, if the rifled barrel was in use before the Civil War, was
the Minie Ball? Doesn't that count as a first?



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: frankl@ide.com (Adam Frankl)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Murpheys laws of combat, was Tracers
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:47:52 GMT
Organization: IDE, San Francisco


From frankl@ide.com (Adam Frankl)

In article <1992Jul21.151836.19915@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> spencer@panix.com (David Spencer) writes:
>
>From spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
>
>>			MURHPY'S LAWS OF COMBAT
>>			-----------------------
> [omitted]
>
>I believe it was General Horrocks who said, "Battle will always take
>place on the seam between two maps."
>
>dhs   spencer@panix.com
>
>
>
There is a real basis for this. For example, in the Falklands, there were a 
limited number of detailed maps. Units were issued maps covering their
areas of operations, with adjacent units getting adjacent maps, etc.
Argentinian scouts were effective at finding the gaps in the lines, and
often fought there. Thus to the British, they always appeared on the map
edges.
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Subject: Re:  Article on guard at the Tomb of the Un
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:22:17 GMT


From fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)

Hard training always makes things look easy cause they
are done over and over and over again at a point they
become natural.
The nuc spill alarm on a sub has its own tone, nothing
else on the boats sound like it, being on the spill team
you learn to react fast to it, about 5 years out of active
Navy we got a freebe remote phone from Avis (actually a bunch
of them- I gave them a xmas presents) and I plugged it in
in the bedroom, well guess what the ringer sounded like.
The first time that sucker went off while I was asleep and
my wife was reading I was out of the bed and bedroom and
headed for AMR1 (got as far as the kitchen on remote) I 
tried to explain this to my wife as I was peeling her off
the ceiling.
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I DONT CARE IF I SOUND CONFUSED, I KNOW WHAT I MEAN !!!

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: urf@sw2001.ki.icl.se (Urban Fredriksson)
Subject: MiG-33
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:40:02 GMT


From urf@sw2001.ki.icl.se (Urban Fredriksson)

There is a advanced multi-role version of the MiG-29 called
MiG-33, which may be displayed at Farnborough this year. It is
similar to a MiG-29M, but all equipment is more advanced.
Externally, one difference is vortex generators on the wing
leading edges, thus permitting operation at still higher angles
of attack.
-- 
 Urban Fredriksson  urf@icl.se  ( N.G.U.Fredriksson.swe2001@oasis.icl.co.uk )

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Nukes removed from Europe
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:03:46 GMT


From henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)

>From whitman@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Rusty Whitman)
>... the U.S. has notified its NATO allies that as of July 2 all
>nuke mines, artillary shells, depth bombs, and short range missiles 
>have been removed from Europe.  Does anyone know if all tactical nukes
>have been removed?  I thought it strange that this was not big news...

It was big news when the plan was announced, but that was long enough
ago that you've presumably forgotten.  You bet your booties I noticed --
it was the best news I'd heard in a long time.  Most of those were truly
dangerous weapons, with short ranges and short fuzes, the sort of weapon
that tempts senior commanders to delegate release authority to field
commanders and tempts field commanders to open fire.

I believe this is a clean sweep of the tactical nuclear weapons *except*
for free-fall bombs (and perhaps air-launched standoff missiles, although
I'm not sure about that).  Keeping free-fall bombs means that there is
still some capability if it happens to be needed, but in a relatively
safe form, based far behind the lines and under positive human control
until the last few seconds.

A recent news item, in Aviation Week I think, mentioned that Britain
and France were moving in the same direction.  Britain has announced
that it is scrapping everything except its Polaris/Trident strategic
force and some free-fall bombs for Tornados (in particular, this gets
rid of all British naval tactical nukes).  France hasn't been that
explicit, but is moving in the same direction:  the company that makes
their latest mobile IRBM has been told that it can forget the rest of
the production run, and the ones built so far may be warehoused rather
than deployed.
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: sjameson@fergie.atl.ge.com (Stephen M Jameson)
Subject: Article submission
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:24:33 GMT


From sjameson@fergie.atl.ge.com (Stephen M Jameson)

 
>In article <1992Jul9.010455.26000@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> jeffc@hpsadm5.sad.hp.com (Jeff Crowell) writes:
 
>>
>>A fun idea: since virtually all torpdoes have influence (i.e. non-contact
>>exploders which trigger off changes in Earth's gravitational fields), why
>>not mount a device in the anti-torp which generates a BIG flux in the
>>grav field?  Badguy torp senses change, goes BOOM!
>>
 
>Anyone got any good ideas for a portable (small enough to fit in a warhead)
>electrical/mechanical means to generate this BIG gravitational flux?
						^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Magnetic flux?
Megnetic flux density is proportional to the square(?) cube(?) of the 
distance form the sorce, so if the jammer is close (<50') a small 
transformer (like in an analog power supply) leaks more flux than the earths 
magnetic field, and should be easy to jam.
 
or
 
Permiablilty (metal detector)
This is a circuit with a coil generating a Mag field and detecting changes 
in the "magnetic resistance" (permiablity) of the space around the coil.  
IMHO this would be very difficult/impossible to 'jam' but some kind of 
"chaff" might work
 
or
 
Gravity Waves (these are _theroretical_ and require BIG sensors (like a 5 
ton block of stainless steel.))
 
    _________________________________________________________________
                        
                        HONDA -- The only way to fly
    o          
  _/\_>   -A proud owner (just wish they were made in the USA)
 O,> / O   [with all respects to Ohio MINE were made in Japan]
           
                           CM400T/XL500R/VF500F
                             '79   '82    '84
                           
     Slower trafic keep right (SUCKzukies, HDs, etc.) ->->->->->->->
    _________________________________________________________________


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: regeorge@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E George)
Subject: Re: Why execute spies?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:47:13 GMT


From regeorge@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E George)

In article <1992Jul29.130421.22738@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> crowl@jade.cs.orst.
edu (Lawrence Crowl) writes:
[deletions]
>
>I am under the impression that execution of spies generally only occurs in
>war.  (After all, no one is dying.)  During peace, opposing parties generally
>trade captured spies.
[deletions]
Some exceptions do exist:
(1) Julius and Ethel Rosenberg in 1953[?4?]
(2) Switzerland executed some spies during WWII (during which it was neutral)

Robert George
(speaking only for myself)

(2)

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Subject: Questions about parachutes
Organization: Utah State University
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 13:30:27 GMT


From sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)

Hello,

I posted about a week ago with some questions about military parachutes.
Now, I only saw one response and I got one mail message. I'm thinking the
problem may have been the subject line, which just said ``T-10C, hanin'
low..'' (a line from a cadence about airborne, I think). So, I am 
reposting the questions with a more straight-forward subject line, in
hopes that my post was overlooked by some people with the info I'm after.

I just want to know about the parachutes the military is using right 
now (or a suitable reference). What I am mainly looking for is: how
many different types are in common usage, makes/models/nomenclature,
advantages/disadvantages, when the different types were developed
(what year), approximate size/weight of each type, and any other 
interesting info you have.

I know there must be a lot of people out there who are airborne and 
know a lot of this stuff like they know their service number, so I 
hope no one is upset by the use of bandwidth.

Post your answers if you think it's appropriate for general consumption,
but e-mail is fine too. Thanks for any info.

Okay,
--                                              __  __   ______   __  __ 
Chadd  L. VanZanten  SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU   +   /\ \/\ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
``Gentlemen!  You  can't  fight in here,   +   \ \ \_\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
this is the War Room!''                    +    \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\
     --Stanley Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove   +     \/_____/ \/_____/ \/_____/ 

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: "Michael Squires" <mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Muskets and Archery
Summary: good against remotes 
Keywords: crossbow
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 13:28:52 GMT


From "Michael Squires" <mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu>

In article <1992Jul16.200122.1393@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> sun!leadsv!sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com!mcfar (Lincoln McFarland) writes:
>
>This caused me to wonder about the "known armor piercing capability" of the
>long bow.  I would like to speculate that it was the relatively un-armored

Some friends fired an iron quarrel based on medieval armor-piercing designs
at a piece of armor from a crossbow (250lb pull).  The quarrel penetrated
the armor, the boards behind it, and both brick walls of the garage the
armor was resting against before burying itself in the ground across the
street.

The armor-piercing designs have a tip that is unlikely to slip, even on
smooth surfaces.  A similar design can be seen on the war hammer, which has
an odd face with four teeth which will not slide even when striking armor
at an angle (according to a friend who makes armor professionally).
-- 

Mike Squires (mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu)     812 855 3974 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu          546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: mat@uunet.uu.net!mole-end
Subject: Re: Why execute spies?
Organization: :
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:16:07 GMT


From mat@uunet.uu.net!mole-end

In article <1992Jul22.170635.20599@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
> 
> From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
> 
> In article <1992Jul20.133604.26753@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
> 
> >In practice, there isn't always as much difference as you might think.
> >Surrendering is a high-risk operation; it is much safer to surrender in
> >a large group or to a high-ranking officer, if you can.  ...
 
> What was the name of that WW1 Sergeant who singlehandedly captured
> a whole battalion of Germans? The way the movie had it he and three
> others marched for miles herding the Germans along until someone 
> would take them off their hands.... 
 
> (The movie, as many that were made then appear now, was of full of 
> overacting - the pacifist Kentucky backwoods boy who wanted to be a 
> conscientious objector but was forced by circumstances to make a 
> one man attack on a German machinegun nest and use turkey psychology
> to attack the flank of the German battalion and pick them off one at
> a time...This I don't find far fetched but the part about marching 
> off with several hundred prisoners I do...)

That would be Sergeant, then Corporal, Alvin C. York.  And yes, it did
happen about that way.  In between the sharpshooting and the taking of
prisoners, he recovered six other men from his unit, so he had some
help with the prisoners.  The most compelling testimony, apparently, was
from the prisoners he took.  Their reports caused people to look into
what happened (Corporal York didn't make a fuss about it) and that earned
Corporal York the Medal of Honor.

(My source is _The Congressional Medal of Honor_, by Bill Harris,
published by Portland House.  It's a large-format `picture book,'
shallow but apparently soundly researched.  One of the more moving
things I have seen is the list of Medal of Honor recipients, name after
name with the asterisk that indicated it was awarded posthumously.)

My recollection is that the movie (which I never saw) was called
`Over the Top' and starred Alvin C. York as Alvin C. York.  This
might not have made for the best acting in the world.
-- 
 (This man's opinions are his own.)
 From mole-end				Mark Terribile

 uunet!mole-end!mat, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ

Newsgroups: sci.military