HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Design advice: Optima & Bookman?
From: jeremy@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Jeremy Gibbons)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 04:45:51 GMT
 <1992Aug21.094528.10264@waikato.ac.nz> <14192@auspex-gw.auspex.com> <BtKFE9.JJp@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland

In <BtKFE9.JJp@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tpb21243@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (BRAUER ) writes:

>There's a book called TYPEStyle that is very good. Concerning Optima
>it suggests any on the following:
>   Activa, Baskerville, Bodini, Century Schoolbook, 
>   Bitstream Cooper, Dutch, ITC Galliard, ITC Garamond, Goudy Old Style,
>   Zapf Calligraphic, Zapf Ellipitical, and Zurich.

Let me guess, it's a Bitstream book, right? "Dutch" is Bitstreamese for
Times Roman, "Zapf Calligraphic" for Palatino and "Zapf Elliptical" for
(if I remember right) Melior.

Traditional faces like Garamond and Goudy together with Optima sounds a bit
odd to me, but I haven't seen them together.

Jeremy

*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Jeremy Gibbons <jeremy@cs.aukuni.ac.nz>  CS Dept, Auckland Univ, NZ |
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*

Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: kathy@rs.com (Kathy Thompson)
Subject: Janson for Sun	
Keywords: Sun Janson font
Reply-To: kathy@rs.com
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:18:26 PDT

Help!

We have been searching high and low for a Janson font
(and Janson small caps) for the Sun. I even had someone
at Sun try to tell me that fonts are hardware:-) :-(
(And don't even ask what Adobe said!)

If any of you could help, we'd be eternally grateful.

Thanks-kathy & betsy
From: ken@racerx.bridge.COM (Ken Hardy)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Font conversion for X
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:14:35 GMT
Organization: Planet Earth

In article <WALSH.92Sep2170247@ibis.cs.umass.edu> Norman Walsh writes:
>How can one convert fonts of type XXX into fonts suitable for display
>in X?  I can go from PostScript -> TeX PK easily enough.  I can probably
>go from TeX PK to 'generic bitmap' format without too much trouble.  But
>what format does X want and how do I get there?  Can I go directly from
>PS to some scalable X format?
>
>Clearly, I'm next to clueless about X fonts ;-)

The standard interchange format for X fonts (bitmapped fonts, anyway --
don't know about R5 scalable fonts) is the BDF (Bitmap Distribution
Format).  *IF* you can get your font into that format, any X server
should have an accompanying utility to "compile" the BDF into the
format that it needs.  Sun's OpenWindows comes with a 'convertfont'
utility that reads and writes six formats, though seemingly
imperfectly:

	Adobe ASCII bitmap
	Adobe ASCII metric
	X11/NeWS (Sun's .fb format)
	vfont
	BDF
	CMU (Andrew)

Which brings me to the point that I was intending to post a question
about:

I'm dissatisfied with convertfont for a couple of reasons, so I want to
write my own vfont-to-BDF converter (unless anyone knows where a better
one already exists.) I've got the BDF man page from the MIT X
distribution, but I'm having trouble understanding how to compute the
SWIDTH parameter for a character.  Can anyone help me with this?

(I hope this is not a FAQ; I only just subscribed to this group.  I did
scan news.answers for a formal FAQ, but apparently it is still under
construction.)

And although I wasn't going to post this by itself, as long as I'm here
I'll ask, are there are any _good_ X-based BDF font editors?  (That _must_
be a FAQ in one group or another!)

-- 

Ken Hardy
ken@bridge.com  (racerx!ken)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: caro@adobe.com (Perry A. Caro)
Subject: Re: font encoding morass
Reply-To: caro@adobe.UUCP  (Perry A. Caro)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:24:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.053815.27076@u.washington.edu> haccme@milton.u.washington.edu (Thomas Ridgeway) writes:
>  written language encodes meaning; unicode encodes symbols of written
>  language.  'e' in Italian does not \it{mean} the same thing as 'e'
>  in English, but they will be represented with the same Unicode entity.
>  The last thing unicode does is encode meaning.

Nonsense.  All this means is that each language entity (country,
society, whatever) should specify how the semantic components of its
language map onto the UNICODE codepoints.  For the most part, the
mapping is obvious, which means that only deviations and exceptions need
be specified.

For the sake of interchange, English and Italians decide
to agree that 'e' means the same thing: when an Englishman enters
"Fellini" in a UNICODE text, the Italian can search for the Italian
letter 'e' and find it in "Fellini".  The *appearance* may be
#$%%&^& (or given ligatures, perhaps ?>&^&), but that's another issue.

Perry
-- 
caro@adobe.com	...!{sun,decwrl}!adobe!caro   Contents: my opinions, no others
From: ulma@coli.uni-sb.de (Ulrich Mayring)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: TrueType question
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:53:47 GMT
Organization: U of Saarbruecken, Dept. of Computational Linguistics

pviton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (P A Viton) writes:

>When I use the Times New Roman font distributed with Windows 3.1 in 10 point 
>size (this may also happen with other points, I don't know) the LEFT (open-) 
>quote prints unpleasantly close to the next character.  Does anyone know how to
>change this, and add a bit of white space between this character and the next 
>one?

This reminds me of something I've heard: _RUMOUR ON_

Postscript printers print Times Roman at 10 points without the German umlauts.
Any truth to that? It is supposed to be a bug in postscript.

_RUMOUR OFF_


     Ulrich Mayring
     volksdesign.

       - Spielen richtig verstanden ist etwas Wunderschoenes -
From: ulma@coli.uni-sb.de (Ulrich Mayring)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Design advice: Optima & Bookman?
Date: 30 Aug 92 09:08:54 GMT
Organization: U of Saarbruecken, Dept. of Computational Linguistics

bjag@nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh) writes:


>Zaph Calligraphic (correct me if I'm wrong 8-)) is Palatino, not Zapf
>Chancery. 

>
You're right, I just looked it up in my Bitstream catalog. My point still holds
though. Correct me if I'm wrong. :-)


     Ulrich Mayring
     volksdesign.

       - Im liberalen Sinne heisst liberal nicht nur liberal -
From: apdent@actor.realtime.cs.vt.edu (Tripp Lilley)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Computer number font (For Checks)
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:47:28 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech

ya can't 'forge' checks as long as you're attempting to make them for an
account on which you can legally sign checks.  Which is to say, if you give
someone a pair of *underwear* with your account number, 'pay to the order of',
and an amount, accompanied by your signature, it's a legal check. 
Therefore, as long as the checks you/he/she is creating are for an account
of yours/his/hers, the attempt to recreate the coding at the bottom is no
less legal than attempting to recreate the zip+4 barcoding at the bottom
of a piece of mail.  it's simply an attempt to speed up things.
[ObFontQuestion]
   anyone know where to get that obnoxiously huge unicode specification
document?  does it cost?  that's all.
 -t.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Tripp Lilley   -- APDENT@actor.realtime.cs.vt.edu                          |
| Nuisance to all, benefit to fewer...but often found being cheerfully paisley|
| >>>  my opinions are.                                                       |
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: knappen@obelix.kph.uni-mainz.de (Joerg Knappen)
Subject: Re: Re: font encoding morass
Keywords: Blackbord bold
Reply-To: knappen@obelix.kph.Uni-Mainz.DE
Organization: Institute for Nuclear Physics, Uni Mainz, FRG
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:37:27 GMT

...and for physicists those ams fonts aren't enough -- they like to use a
blackbord bold number 1 for the unit matrix.

Fortunately, a font having even this one exists in the TeX world (it is called
bbold and written by Alan Jeffrey. Available from the farfamed TeX servers)

--J"org Knappen. 

Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: leander@rkw-risc.cs.up.ac.za (Leander Conradie)
Subject: FAQ for this group?
Date:  5 Sep 92 01:52:11 GMT
Organization: University of Pretoria, South Africa

Could someone tell me if there is a FAQ for this group somewhere??

Thanks in advance

Leander Conradie
----------------->
leander@up.ac.za
From: buckley@boole.mayo.edu (Paul Buckley)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Quentin
Keywords: fonts
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:52:48 GMT
Organization: Mayo Foundation, Rochester MN. Campus

I'm looking for a font I believe is called Quentin.  It is circus-like, think  
Barnum & Baily.  Anyone seen it?


--

Paul Buckley
buckley@mayo.edu
From: leichter@zodiac.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Re: font encoding morass
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:14:27 GMT
Organization: Rutgers University Department of Computer Science

In article <1992Aug28.101127.1@zodiac.rutgers.edu>, I said:

	The AMS created a set of extended math characters that, as I recall,
	included "blackboard bold" versions of all the upper-case characters.

I meant to say that it included all the uppercase LETTERS.

							-- Jerry
From: karlberg@lne.kth.se (KRILLE_KROKODIL)
Subject: Re: Remington
Reply-To: karlberg@lne.kth.se (KRILLE_KROKODIL)
Organization: KTH, Royal Institute of Technology, School of Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 12:07:47 GMT

>I'm looking or a font that looks like an old typewriter's, where the
>letters don't come exactly on the line.

Sorry, I should have written a Macintosh TrueType font, though I'm going to
try Harting on LaserWriter at school.

Martin
From: hcheng@Auspex.COM (Howard Cheng)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Type One Fonts + Mac StyleWriter??
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:24:04 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

In article <1992Sep3.052827.5857@ccu.umanitoba.ca> toban@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Jeff Zuk) writes:
>
>I am sitting in front of a SW right now and I do know that it will not compre-
>hend Adobe fonts, even with Type Manager. If I am wrong may the hard drive of 
>my life bomb.  
>

Do you have the printer fonts available as well?  ATM doesn't work without
the printer outlines.  It should work otherwise.  I have a Laserwriter LS
(QuickDraw) and I print regularly using ATM and I get great-looking type.

h.
From: glenn@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Glenn A. Adams)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Unicode and Fonts
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:40:20 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory


   In article <mcdonald.244@aries.scs.uiuc.edu> mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu:

   >I don't care one tiny hoot for the Asian hieroglyphics. I do care about
   >dingbats and particularly ligatures. Ligatures must be put in any code that
   >wants to be generally used.

My, what a limited perspective.  Tell that to the software companies that
derive a third (or more) of their revenue from East Asia.  Also, you'd might
want to read up a bit about Asian writing systems:  there are no hieroglyphics
in Asia.

   >In fact, in Japanese, your arguments say that all of Kanji is essentially
   >unneeded, as it can be described by a simpler script!!

You seem to ignore that "simpler" is not the order of the day; data
compatibility is.  Even if Unicode provided a decomposition system for
Han symbols, it still would be necessary to provide all existing encodings
for 1-1 correspondence with existing character sets.  A decomposition system
may very well be used for new Han symbols incorporated into the standard.

   >I don't care one whit about your arguments, I want ligatures.

There are 6,144 code elements available in the private use zone to do
whatever you want with.  Put your ligatures there; go ahead, treat Unicode
as a font encoding: who cares about proper abstraction barriers anyway?

Glenn Adams
From: glenn@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Glenn A. Adams)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Unicode and Fonts
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:59:22 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory

In article <2A9C6D8A.813@intercon.com> amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker) writes:

>I may just be overly cynical, but I tend to be suspicious of standardization 
>efforts which depend on the goodwill of everyone to go above and beyond what 
>is mandated by the standard.  Minimal compliance is the norm.

I may point out that Unicode allows arbitrary subsetting, including the empty
set.  The requirements for Unicode conformance are:

  (1) if you don't know how to interpret a character, and you intend to pass
      it along to another entity, then you should not inadvertently change
      it to another character value.

  (2) if you interpret a character, you should do so according to the semantics
      defined by Unicode.

  (3) a sequence of Unicode code elements should be interpreted as
      an array of 16-bit unsigned integral values (unsigned short), and
      not as an array of octets (bytes).

So, any system that satisfies the above *is* minimally compliant, even if
it doesn't recognize a single character.  Of course this system won't be
particularly useful.

Unicode is designed to allow a migration path toward its full capabilities.
Systems which only wish to display ASCII or JIS (or certain other) character
data encoded with Unicode will not need sophisticated rendering engines and
can, for the most part, treat Unicode as if it specified a font encoding.

More sophisticated systems which want to support Arabic, Indic, and other
more complex scripts will need to generalize the rendering process and begin
to separate the font encoding from Unicode.

I think you minimize the real reason for Unicode and 10646; it won't be
implemented simply because it is a new standard, but because it provides
a very important foundation for building globalized software systems.  Lost
market revenue and higher engineering costs are the real reasons behind
the desire for building operating systems and software that support all
languages out of the box.  But it won't happen overnight; these new systems
must evolve from what we have now.  Mandating that the full range of Unicode
be supported from the beginning would doom it immediately.

New systems which support the full range of Unicode *are* being built by
important system vendors, Apple & Microsoft just to name a few.  But they
must develop this new technology from the base they have now, just like
everyone else.  It won't appear like Athena from Zeus' head.  And no standard
will be able to define it ex nihilo either.

Glenn Adams
Cambridge, Massachusetts
From: wdrdjh@thor.cf.ac.uk (Dr D J Harvey 92)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Conversion of MAC Adobe fonts for PC format
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:27:32 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff, Cardiff, Wales, UK
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

Sorry if this is an FAQ (can't find a FAQ for this section), but does anyone
know of a PD or shareware program for converting MAC Adobe Type 1 fonts to PC
format for use with ATM?

I know that there are problems with most MAC->PC file conversions only
transferring the metrics, not the font itself as that is part of a resource
fork, so any help on overcoming this problem, whether part of the font
conversion or not, would be much appreciated.

Dave Harvey
(harveydj@cardiff.ac.uk)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: august@leland.Stanford.EDU (Quang Tue Nguyen)
Subject: Looking for info on fonts for Vietnamese language
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 21:14:36 GMT

I'm interested in getting fonts which have the diacritical marks (accents,
tilde, etc.) appropriate for the Vietnamese language, for my Ms-Windows
software.

If you have any lead on this, I would appreciate a note.  My address is
august@leland.stanford.edu.   Thanks.

qtn.
-- 
nGUYen QUang tuE, august@lEland.stanfoRd.edu
Unexotic Oriental Boy, (415) 325-9227
From: gilligan@bldrdoc.gov (Jonathan M. Gilligan)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Hypertext based TrueType specifications
Date: 3 Sep 92 23:19:41 GMT
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <1992Sep02.185044.9253@microsoft.com> georgem@microsoft.com (George Moore) writes:
>I have recently placed an online, illustrated, hypertext version 
>of the TrueType specifications available for anonymous ftp on 
>ftp.uu.net in the /vendor/microsoft/TrueType-Info directory.  

Thanks, George. It's great to be able to read the document.

However, I now have a question. Am I correct in understanding that the
spec requires that symbol fonts that do not correspond to a standard
encoding like ANSI-Windows cannot use the positions 0-40 of the font
and that ligatures are forbidden in text fonts?  That would mean that
there's no hope to fix the bug in the TT Lucida New Maths fonts where
the glyph positions do not match those of the corresponding Computer
Modern maths fonts or the lack of ligatures in the Lucida Bright
family. Did Microsoft really goof this badly, or was it a deliberate
attempt to keep people from switching away from Type-1 fonts?

---Jon
-- 

Disclaimer --- The government probably disagrees with my opinions.
From: gilligan@bldrdoc.gov (Jonathan Gilligan 303-497-3861)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Unicode and Fonts
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:37:53 GMT
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <27197@life.ai.mit.edu> glenn@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Glenn A. Adams) writes:
|>3. The fact that many programmers (and font designers) have confused characters
|>   and glyphs is a historical accident of the writing systems employed to
|>   write English, Chinese, Japanese, and languages with similar orthographies.
|>   The largely 1-1 correspondence between character and glyph in these
|>   writing systems fails to hold for Arabic, Indic, and other scripts, which,
|>   in general, employ M-N mappings between orthographic units and the glyphs
|>   used to display these units.
|>
|>4. Textual information is meant for more than simply display.  Optimizing the
|>   representation of text for display alone produces suboptimal behavior for
|>   many other operations.  Say I encode the Latin ligature <ff> as a single
|>   unit and then wish to do an incremental search for words starting with
|>   <of> as in "office"; I now have the problem of decomposing the ostensibly
|>   lexical unit <ff> into its subparts for searching.
|>

In this context, I (ignorant of UNICODE beyond what I've read on this
newsgroup) would like to ask what UNICODE does about the ``ll'' and
``ch'' characters in Spanish that are generally written with two
glyphs. That is, ``ll'' is a distinct character in terms of indexing
from ``l''. Similarly, ``ch'' is distinct from ``c''. To sort
Spanish words alphabetically, one needs to compose ``ch'' and
``ll'' into distinct characters (opposite of the hypothetical
decomposition of ``ff''). Does UNICODE address this and have a codes
for ``ll'' and `ch'', or does it encode glyphs rather than characters
in this instance?

--Jon
-- 

Disclaimer --- The government probably disagrees with my opinions.
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: raghu@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Raghu B)
Subject: .HP fonts to Laserwriter
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:21:40 GMT


	Is it possible to print .hp files on a Laserwriter ?

	i need your help. Or is there anyway, i could convert

	them using any software. If so, are there any ftp

	sites where I can get them.

	Thanx in advance.


			Raghu, Balasubramanian
			Raghu@engr.mun.ca
			Memorial University of Newfoundland
			St.John's, Canada.
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: pfa/pfb to mac
Date: 24 Aug 92 22:47:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

JP> .Does anybody know of a quick and/or easy way to convert pfa/pfb fonts to
  > .type 1 Mac format?

FontMonger for Windows does the conversion, and comes with a filter for
the Mac Apple File Transfer.

        D/

 * OLX 2.2 * Real Pilots enjoy NDB approaches to minimums!  Inverted!!
                                                                                                
Xref: sparky comp.fonts:2586 comp.text.tex:10933 comp.lang.postscript:4587 comp.os.ms-windows.misc:2767 comp.os.os2.misc:29309
From: walsh@cs.umass.edu (Norman Walsh)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts,comp.text.tex,comp.lang.postscript,comp.os.ms-windows.misc,comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: FAQ for comp.fonts
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:31:19 GMT
Reply-To: walsh@cs.umass.edu
Followup-To: comp.fonts
Organization: Dept of Comp and Info Sci, Univ of Mass (Amherst)

I will shortly be posting the second-ever FAQ for comp.fonts.  Rest
assured, I will not post the actual FAQ as widely as this message ;-)

Bharathi Jagadeesh and I have been working on it cooperatively but
it still needs lots of work.  We would greatly appreciate any input
that you could provide.

Look for it soon in comp.fonts.

                                                norm
From: v065hjku@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Jason Osborne)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: A font which has common geometric shapes
Date: 28 Aug 92 12:38:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I thought it might be of general interest to know that LittleGidding,
a macintosh truetype font, available through major FTP sites, 
has a bunch of shapes, such as triangles, squares, octagon, etc.

I know of no other font which has these, but that really doesn't
mean anything.

______________________________________________________________________________
Jason Osborne | Disclaimer: Who'd listen to me anyway?
______________________________________________________________________________
For information on the Underground Phont Archive, drop me a note via email
______________________________________________________________________________
From: churchh@ut-emx.uucp (Henry Churchyard)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Why Windows 3.1 blocks out upper ASCII chars - Message2.
Summary: inside eexec'ed part of Type1
Keywords: Windows .pfb Type1 encoding
Date: 25 Aug 92 14:54:37 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas

In article <26871@life.ai.mit.edu>, bkph@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Berthold K.P. Horn) writes:
> 
> In article <21AUG92.10494495@wl.aecl.ca> desikacharyk@wl.aecl.ca writes:
>    I am not clear if editing PFB files as 
>    suggested by Henry Churchyard will achieve this, because I cannot control 
>    which encoding vector is used by Windows.
> 
> Right, all editing of the encoding vector in the PFB file is ignored if the
> font is in fact reencoded to Windows ANSI.  

  Actually, I'm not sure you entirely understood my original
suggestion.  With the T1UTILS1 package you can go down into the
eexec'ed portion of the Type1 and change the names which are
associated with the character outline descriptions.  So, for instance,
you could swap the ouline definitions of /A and /a in the _eexec_
section without altering the EncodingVector at all.  What you're
really doing is editing the raw character outline definition code, so
it's not necessarily for the faint of heart (although the only way you
can really damage the font by just swapping around the associations
between encoding names and character outline definitions is if your
font uses the _seac_ command to define composed-accented characters).

  The point of this, is that if Windows demands a particular set of
128 encoding names for non-7-bit ASCII characters, then you can go
into the eexec'ed part of the Type1 and associate the font's outline
defintions with those names.  If Windows has less than 128 such names,
then you aren't going to get 128 high-ASCII characters, apparently.
(All this is separate from the question of the encoding vector, which
from your description, it seems that Windows usually ignores anyway).
Anyway...

--
         --Henry Churchyard     churchh@emx.cc.utexas.edu