From: thorick@sybase.com (Thorick Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: On Explaining Aikido
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:52:23 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <1992Sep30.151612.493@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>

THe Chi/Ki wars again...

>
>People also get put off because the explanations describing Ki as a weird 
>force are flat wrong.  It is a very commonplace psychospiritual concept,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>and aspects of it are found in virtually every culture.  Just not expressed in
>exactly the same way.  Someone with difficulty here probably just need more 
>experience translating Ki ideas into other cultural idioms (and a better 
			^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>understanding of what it is), in my opinion.   
>
>In particular, the 'spiritual' component in Japanese culture,
>in Shinto and esoteric and Zen Buddhist life is interwoven into descriptions 
>of nature in a different way than in the exoteric religions of the West, and 
>those Japanese religions underlie a great deal of the concepts in martial 
>arts.  Especially when we deal with the modern _Do_ forms, and Aikido is 
>a particularly pointed example because of Ueshiba Morihei's personal 
>idiosyncrasies.
>
>>If you are worried about explaining ki, you might want to use the 'scientific'
>>explanantion... invisible energy that surrounds the universe... 
>
>>Timothy Gion AKA  /     \     University of Delaware - Computer Science
>
>This was a joke, I hope.  If not, the standards for the science curriculum at 
>U of D need some looking at ... :-)
>
>The aspects that are too subtle or complex to explain with simple physics
>are quite easy to describe with metaphor and imagery.  In this respect, 
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>it is quite useful, but not absolutely essential to use the vital force 
							^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>concept.   And certainly not essential to carry over the entire Zen culture
^^^^^^^^
>in explaining the performance of technique.  And if an intelligent,
>well-educated Westerner, schooled in the scientific models, is completly
>_dependent_ on the Ki concept it to explain what is happening, they probably 
>don't really understand what is going on in the technique.   In my opinion, 
>from my own experience.   
>

Well, with all due respect and speaking for myself, let me just say that...

I'm a reasonably intelligent Westerner, schooled in scientifc models
(AB Physics UC Berkeley, member of Sigma Pi Sigma  Physics Honors Society)...

While `imagery and metaphor' do play a role in the development of
Chi/Ki, Chi/Ki is far more than a 'cultural idiom' or 'a convenient
concept'...

Having felt the 'projection' of Chi/Ki from others who are better
MA-ers than myself, I have come to the conclusion that it really
'exists' as something which cannot be explained by the 'normal models'
that WEstern Science currently has.   I'm not a person who is
easily 'duped' or 'suggestible'..   I can say that until you've
felt it, you can't imagine WHAT it could be like....

A big problem with the whole Chi/KI business is that there are too
many people running around for whom it is still ONLY a concept
who go around showing their 'Ki power'.  It only 'cheapens' the attainments
of those who have cultivated strong and 
REAL Ki...  e.g. no one could be shown the 'Ki flow' model, then
immediately manifest strong 'Ki' without months or years of
dedicated practice and in 'demonstrations' where this seems to
happen, then, yes, I'd say that the person is showing good 
aptitude for adopting a 'cultural idiom'...


-t.c.


--
"We must be careful not to discourage our 12-year-olds by making them   
 waste the best years of their lives on preparing for examinations.  If
 we do not stifle their interest in science, one of them has a chance to
 be the new Heisenberg..."              - Freeman Dyson