HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rjm@lavabo.atlanta.dg.com (Randy Myers)
Subject: Vestax 4-track cassette
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 21:11:54 GMT
Organization: Data General Corp. ASSD, Atlanta, GA

I'm considering various 4-track machines, such as (older) Tascam Portastudios.
I want dbx, dual speed, some per-channel eq would be OK, etc., for recording
acoustic music (guitar, harp, percussion...).  My dealer wants me to buy a Vestax
4-track cassette (the model number escapes me) and I've never heard of it.
It might be fine, although the specs I've seen are a little hazy.  85db s/n, but
no spec without the DBX turned on, etc.  My pal has a Tascam 238, and I like it
pretty well.  The Vestax is about a $500-dollar machine (selling price, not list).
Just based on the quality of the recording I can get, I wonder if I
am gonna be disappointed with it.  I'd be interested in
any personal testaments or reservations regarding Vestax equipment.

Email would be fine.  Post if you think the world needs to know...

Thanks for any insights.
--
Randy Myers (WB4SPB)                   Email:    rjm@atlanta.dg.com
Atlanta Systems Integration Services 
Data General Corporation

"Standard disclaimer"
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion)
Subject: Re: Sound reinforcement questions
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:26:17 GMT

In article <H.dkL5ZTYtBvs@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca> jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca writes:
>In <1992Sep8.063920.15950@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, Theo ten Brummelaar writes:

>>1. (It's obvious) If the drum doesn't sound good by itself, it is VERY hard
>>   to make it sound good through a mic.

>	While obvious, it's often the case.

>>P.S. A quick question: Do sound engineers know more about serial numbers
>>     of microphones than music ?

>	Maybe just the ones you work with,

Not the serial numbers - but the MODEL numbers.   If the numbers sound
strange when someone compares an MD421 to a U47 (bad comparison but
both legitimate numbers) and it makes no sense to a musician, it's the
same things when a musician compares a Bosendorfer to a Bechstein. (did
I spell those correctly?  I wanted to say Bluerthner but I know THAT is
not spelled right!).

You know your tools, a musican the instrument and an engineer his
mikes.   There are some of both who know the others.


>p.s. another quick question: Do sound engineers usually know more about 
>tuning drums than drummers. ;-)

I will say emphatically YES, some of us do.   I spent many hours tuning
drum kits for drummers who really didn't know drums.  I have met a few
great drummers, but they are the exception.   We also had our own
studio kit that most drummers really loved.

We kept it tuned properly.  We had top & bottom heads on it most of the
time.  Thats much harder to tune properly.  But the musicians loved it.
Added quite a bit of dynamic range, and the drummers found them easier
to play.

We also had comprel sets of drum heads in the stuido too.  Full sets of
whites, clears and black-dots.   After all where are you going to go at
4am Sunday morning to find a drum head.  We just went back to the
engineering shop, and pulled a set.  Boy did that blow a few minds when
someone figured the session was over because of a bad head!

There are engineers who don't seem to know music or instruments.  Our
studio was an exception.   The two full time had both studied music,
and we could repair equipment too.

And there were times I went into the studio and tuned a guitar.

And there were fewer times that I stopped a session and touched up the
tuning on the piano.  A good engineer really has to know as much as
possible about things that happen on both sides of the glass.
The sad part is I have seen some engineers who I'd swear have never
really listened to the sounds BEFORE it gets to the conrol room. :-(



-- 
Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.oau.org  bill.vermillion@oau.org
                - bill@bilver.uucp 
                - ..!{peora|ge-dab|tous|tarpit}!bilver!bill
From: rholmes@athena.cs.uga.edu (Robb Holmes)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Earplugs for audiences?
Keywords: earplugs, hearing
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:27:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Sep16.002738.16518
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <3162@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU> cm@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Charles Meo) writes:
>I find it hard to credit that people feel the need to seriously discuss
>earplugs at rock gigs. If you need 'em, you're too old, and should go home.

Let me see if I've got this straight.  In your view, anyone who can still
hear has no business attending these events, right?

>I have been in the business for 15 years (drums and board) and my hearing
>is maybe 10% gone  on some frequencies last time I checked. To me, this is
>quite acceptable and if my ears start to pack up about the time the rest
>of me does, that's OK too.

When was the last time you checked?

>When I drive the board or the kit, I decide how to use them. The performer
>(including the crew) MUST have the discretion here--and that doesn't rule
>out being quiet and tasteful when necessary either!

Sorry, but this just won't flush.  If the performer or crew already suffer
excessive hearing losses, they should not be responsible for judging the
output.
>
>The duty of care in this stupid decade should be put back on the individual,
>where it has always belonged. If you don't like the heat...

Basically, I agree, but it doesn't seem to be working.  


-------
Robb Holmes  WUGA-FM  Ga. Center for Continuing Ed.  Univ. of Georgia
rholmes@athena.cs.uga.edu  rholmes@uga.cc.uga.edu  bitnet:rholmes@uga
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: QSound?
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:30:08 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <TONYB.92Sep8132614@titania.juliet.ll.mit.edu> 
tonyb@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Tony Berke ) writes:

(*text edited)

>I make recordings that I don't really worry about being broadcasted in mono.
>If that is the case, am I to interpret the above *paragraphs as meaning that
>my stereo recordings will still sound better if they are free of 
>comb-filtering, etc, when combined to mono?  If so, what should I be on the
>lookout for?

If you record and check the result in mono and use mic placement, etc
to minimise.......Yes!  

When you switch to mono the only thing that should collapse is
the stereo image.

Monitoring a recording in mono will graphically point out out serious phase
errors.  I have actually mixed in mono once the stereo image was determined
(amplitude stereo).  I have found that if it sounds good in mono it will still
sound good in stereo........

A good stereo recording should *still* sound good in mono!

>On a related topic -- when doing remote recordings, I pretty much always
>wind up monitoring with headphones.  This is frequently the source of surprises
>when I get back home and listen with loudspeakers.  I'm slowly developing a
>feel for the translation between loudspeaker and headphone sound, but...
>Does anyone feel like offering specific suggestions pertaining to headphone
>monitoring?  "Don't!" is a valid, but unhelpful, response.  I'm hoping for
>advice as to how to minimize the likelihood of finding out after the fact
>that, for example, my channel levels don't balance well, or the image is too
>wide/too narrow, or that the direct/reverberent balance is off, etc.

I use Sonys and I have never been surprised!  The only difference that
I hear is that the speaker reproduction is a little wider.

Your problems with image too wide/narrow and direct/reverberant sound
balance isn't related to monitoring with headphones.  The phone
enviornment is echo free and should allow you to hear all of what you
are concerned with.

Something that occationally happens to me is that I am so focused on listening
to/for noise, etc that I forget to listen to the _sound_ I am recording.

Maybe that's your *problem*    :-) :-) Thats;s two smileys Tony!

I will read with interest the rest of the responses to your questions!
-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I *AM* only human.
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: peter@ux1.cso (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: Dokorder 4 track
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Tasmania
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:17:19 GMT
X-Posted-From: mgm.physics.uiuc.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

HELP!! I have a Dokorder pro 4 track reel to reel recorder.  When it works 
it sounds fantastic (30 i.p.s.). but now two channels are out of it.  I am 
an engineer but I need some scematics on it to repair it and set all the 
levels.  I am willing to pay money for it.  The company is out of business 
so the copyright is void.  If you or anyone you know has scematics, contact 
me at miller@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu or (217) 333-2632.

Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: andy@research.canon.oz.au (Andy Newman)
Subject: Re: Sound reinforcement questions
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 04:15:30 GMT

jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca writes:
>
>p.s. another quick question: Do sound engineers usually know more about
>tuning drums than drummers. ;-)
>

Of course they do! Sound engineers (especially the one my band is
using at the moment) always know everything about everything ;-)

p.s (Sorry 'bout that sound people.)

-- 
Andy Newman (andy@research.canon.oz.au)		"int - God's own type"
Xref: sparky rec.audio.pro:1696 rec.music.marketplace:1398
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.marketplace
Subject: Re: Far Field Recording Microphones Needed
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:35:44 GMT
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Sep12.043707.2222@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dblancha@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Blanchat) writes:
>I just got my first pro portable deck (marantz pmd430) and am now looking
>for good (or as good as I can afford) far field recording microphones 
>(directional, low noise, reasonably easy to care for).  I need suggestions
>preferably under $300, new or used, if used, preferably with cords/t-bar/
>mike-stand...

Errr...you forgot to tell us what you want to record.  Hard to recommend a
set of microphones without knowing that.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
From: djensen@claven.idbsu.edu (Dave J)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Earplugs?
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:22:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Morrison Center for the Performing Arts

In article <1992Sep11.151201.21095@intelhf.hf.intel.com>
dcovell@pcocd2.intel.com (David Covell) writes:
>
>As I get older and deeper in debt for recording gear I'm becoming more
>concerned with preserving what's left of my hearing. The occasional concerts
>and live gigs I do leave my ears ringing for days now, and sometimes they
>start ringing spontaneously in a quiet room. I know this is a bad sign and
>it's time to take action. 

Sorry to hear this, but the action you most need to take is a visit to a
clinical audiologist... don't mess around.

I have a pair of the custom-molded ER-15 hearing attenuators (about $65-85).
These are also referred to as the "musicians attenuators," as they are
supposedly a flat 15 dB attenuation. While they are comparatively good sounding
and provide a more controlled response than other types, they are not really
perfectly flat. I would not rely on setting tonality or critical balances with
them. Etymotic is due out shortly with a 25 dB attenuator that has a slightly
better response than the foam earplugs, which by the way are the best form of
In-The-Ear (ITE) protection when response is not an issue, i.e. concert-going.

Another consideration is in-the-ear monitoring. I also have Etymotic's ER-4B,
ITE earphones. These attenuate 25 dB of the ambient noise while delivering a
more accurate reproduction than most other headphones. The beauty of this
arrangement is the ability to monitor at a much lower level than usual. This
will save your hearing while working in a variety of instances. You can also
enjoy recorded music in otherwise noisy environments at safer levels. These are
$280, but IMO well worth it.

BTW, these ER-4s are perfect for use with your FM walkman at those concerts
where the performers use ITE monitoring on stage.

Both products are from:

ETYMOTIC RESEARCH
61 Martin Lane
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
708-228-0006   


Dave "you don't know what you've got till it's gone" Jensen
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman)
Subject: mike recommendations sought
Organization: NCAR, Boulder CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:13:19 GMT

Some recommendations for relatively inexpensive mikes would be appreciated...

I'm not looking for the best mikes, but rather something that is fairly 
decent and has a good cost:performance ratio.  I'll be using them to record 
rock band rehearsals & possibly live shows (read "loud, live music").  
I'm thinking about either a stereo mike or two mikes in an XY pattern, 
direct to 2-track (my home cassette deck).

thanks, -Brian
From: bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Review of Sony PCM-3324S in August '92 MIX
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:00:31 GMT
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL

In article <1992Sep10.042535.6139@ultb.isc.rit.edu> cms2839@ultb.isc.rit.edu (a.stranger) writes:
>				recently , i asked what sony " left off
>" their new 24 track DASH-F machine to bring it down to approximately
>half of the price of their previous model .

>"Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, the PCM-3324S is the best
>multitrack tape recorder on the market today.  Its mechanical,
>electrical and sonic qualities are unsurpassed, and its competitive
>price could drive a stake thorough the heart of analog multitrack
>recording.  With the arrival of this machine, it is possible that the
>science of open-reel audio tape recorders has reached its zenith and
>will be superseded only by entirely different forms of data storage."
>
>				the review was positive throughout , but
>the strength of this paragraph really surprised me . the PCM-3324S still
>costs *twice* as much as sony's comparable analogue machine , the APR-24
>( which i've used frequently and like a lot ) . i haven't been in this
>business long enough to have a really wide perspective , but i'm kinda
>skeptical . what do you " oldsters " 8^>= think ?

I'd probably go along with Pohlman's thoughts.  I don't know
how old you think we oldster's are (or might be), but in the
first of our 2 warehouse studios before we built a state of the
art dual 24-track studio, our first brand new out of the box
direct from the factory 8-track, was an Ampex AG-440-8.  It was
the first Ampex 8 track, and the serial number on it was #13.
That's right THIRTEEN!  (That is their 1st true production
8-track - Les Paul had a custom 300 8-track).

So I guess that puts me far enought back :-)


-- 
Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.oau.org  bill.vermillion@oau.org
                - bill@bilver.uucp 
                - ..!{peora|ge-dab|tous|tarpit}!bilver!bill
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: tonyb@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Tony Berke )
Subject: Re: QSound?
Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Lab - Group 43
	<1992Sep3.152613.21178@nntp.uoregon.edu>
	<TONYB.92Sep8132614@titania.juliet.ll.mit.edu> <5172@gold.gvg.tek.com>
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:39:01

In article <5172@gold.gvg.tek.com> chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen) writes:

   [Chris' text edited]

   When you switch to mono the only thing that should collapse is
   the stereo image.

   Monitoring a recording in mono will graphically point out out serious phase
   errors.  I have actually mixed in mono once the stereo image was determined
   (amplitude stereo).  I have found that if it sounds good in mono it will
   still sound good in stereo........

   A good stereo recording should *still* sound good in mono!

This would seem to reflect an inherent bias towards intensity stereo.
Or more likely, my incomplete understanding of the topic ;-)  Won't
any near-coincident stereo technique suffer from comb filtering in
the upper octave(s) for off-axis sources, or do the directional
characteristics of the mics keep that from happening when things are
going correctly ?


   >On a related topic -- when doing remote recordings, I pretty much always
   >wind up monitoring with headphones.  This is frequently the source of surprises
   >when I get back home and listen with loudspeakers.  I'm slowly developing a
   >feel for the translation between loudspeaker and headphone sound, but...
   >Does anyone feel like offering specific suggestions pertaining to headphone
   >monitoring?  "Don't!" is a valid, but unhelpful, response.  I'm hoping for
   >advice as to how to minimize the likelihood of finding out after the fact
   >that, for example, my channel levels don't balance well, or the image is too
   >wide/too narrow, or that the direct/reverberent balance is off, etc.

   I use Sonys and I have never been surprised!  The only difference that
   I hear is that the speaker reproduction is a little wider.

   Your problems with image too wide/narrow and direct/reverberant sound
   balance isn't related to monitoring with headphones.  The phone
   enviornment is echo free and should allow you to hear all of what you
   are concerned with.

Sometimes I've been bitten beacause (I think) headphones reproduce the
image from my Crown SASSP so convincingly that things that *should* be
distracting (like too much hall) aren't.  Then I listen on speakers,
and the sound is buried in mud.  Perhaps that says more about my listening
room than my recordings ;-(

Another problem I had origionally is that the MDR V6's that I use
have, on my head, no deep bass, a hump in the midbass, and no extreme
treble.  When I go home and listen on my Stax Lambda's or my
loudspeakers, I hear some new things, and sometimes what I hear is
bloated bass because I picked a mic position that overemphasized it.
This sort of problem hasn't cropped up in a while -- now that I realize
the failings of the Sony's, I can compensate.  I can also take my glasses
off and squash the 'phones against my head to get a better seal (I refuse
to get a crewcut just to make better recordings!!!).

Tony
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Sound reinforcement questions
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:39:45 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <Bu9Fuw.C5B@world.std.com> muller@world.std.com (James L Muller) 
writes:
>In <1992Sep8.063920.15950@ucc.su.OZ.AU> theo@physics.su.OZ.AU
>   (Theo ten Brummelaar) writes:
>>P.S. A quick question: Do sound engineers know more about serial numbers
>>     of microphones than music ?

>Good question.  Most of the bad ones we've worked with had that as one
>of their faults.  And most of the good ones knew music as well as the
>specs of their equipment.

It is my belief and conviction that a sound person who knows what
it's like up there will do a better job.  I have been proven wrong on
that account also!  Some of the worst sound people I have seen were
acomplished musicians.

I am a engineer, musician and sound person, I am told that I do a good job,  I
just do the best I can.......
 
-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I *AM* only human.
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: cms2839@ultb.isc.rit.edu (a.stranger)
Subject: Re: Home Studio Monitor System
Originator: cms2839@ultb
Organization: Minimalist Music for Hyperactive Children (MMHC)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:48:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.041119.895@metrosoft.com> gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes:
>
>I'm using the Alesis RA-100 to drive a pair of Tannoy PBM-8's. I've been  
>really pleased with the combination, particularly for the money.
>
				can't comment on the Alesis , but i have
*never* heard a pair of monitors that sounded anything like the Tannoy
PBM series for anything less than double their price . i've heard both
the PBM-8's and PBM-6.5's , and nothing in their price range comes even
close .

-- 
       @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
       @       "Imagination keeps the shadows away  -  Xymox       @
       @~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@
       @ a.stranger - CMS2839@ritvax.isc.rit.edu - PGP key on req. @
From: noam@techunix.technion.ac.il (noam amir)
Subject: digital studio
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:21:34 GMT

I've been following this group for a while, and it looks like
there are a lot of knowledgeable people out there - so i have
a question.
   in a nutshell, i'd like to know what is the state of the
art in computer (pc?) based digital studios? i suppose the
really big studios have custom made and expensive digital
equipment, but it seems to me that with pc's and DSP hardware
floating around today, it shouldn't be too expensive to put
together a small digial studio. i'm talking 20- 30 Kdollars,
and about 18 tracks. i suppose the bottlenecks would be
disk space and throughput. does anyone out there know what the
best kind of media would be for storage - tape (DAT? other?)
or some kind of big removable disk or the new MD thing from 
sony? how many tracks can a pc handle? 18 tracks would probably
need a very fast disk and controller.
    another thing that bothers me is resolution. i see info
about 18 and 20 bit converters, but i wonder how much all that
is needed and how much is drowned out in noise. especially if
you use multiple track recordings and then mix them to one
track, since each track is then attenuated and a few bits are
then lost anyway.
    any info at all on this topic is very welcome, either by
posting or email to me at : noam@techunix.technion.ac.il  .
i'll summarize to the net if there is any interest. thanks
in advance, 
                noam.

Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
From: cm@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Charles Meo)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Earplugs for audiences?
Keywords: earplugs, hearing
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:01:26 GMT
Organization: Solbourne Computer Australia

I find it hard to credit that people feel the need to seriously discuss
earplugs at rock gigs. If you need 'em, you're too old, and should go home.

In this country, we have these stupid SPL meters hooked into the mains and 
when the gig gets above an animated conversation, it shuts off and blows
the crap outta your rig. What I want to know is, who's going to say what is
excessive SPL and what is not? If the old farts drive, it's the end of the
biz, or a no-fun zone anyway. Bet that would a lot of people happy, judging
by the ridiculous satanism stuff that gets an airing from the US.

This is very much a judgement thing: know your product. Stay away from
grunge bands that will blow the roof off; go see something a little tamer. 

I have been in the business for 15 years (drums and board) and my hearing
is maybe 10% gone  on some frequencies last time I checked. To me, this is
quite acceptable and if my ears start to pack up about the time the rest
of me does, that's OK too.

When I drive the board or the kit, I decide how to use them. The performer
(including the crew) MUST have the discretion here--and that doesn't rule
out being quiet and tasteful when necessary either!

The duty of care in this stupid decade should be put back on the individual,
where it has always belonged. If you don't like the heat...

Flame suit -- ON!

Chuck
-- 
Chuck Meo
Solbourne Computer Australia
cm@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
'SYS5R4: one size fits nobody'