From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Non-flaming dialogue wanted
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:17:03 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1993Jan21.033826.14456@vela.acs.oakland.edu> atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez) writes:
>  I picked up a lot of information from the people who posted responses to my
>questions.  I appreciate the fact that everyone was willing to take me at my
>word.  As far as I can see, I am questioning three assumptions of Mensa, which
>I have listed from most to least fundamental.
>
>1)  Very intelligent people need an organization so that they can exercise
>    their high intelligence.
>
>  Mike Steiner made this assumption of his clear in his posting.
>
>} Mensa is primarily a social organization.  Delma Murray, a member of Mensa 
>} Canada...probably said it best:  "Mensa is a support group for the severely 
>} gifted."  
>
>  This implies that the severely gifted *need* a support group.  This 
>assumption is so basic that I doubt anyone has really questioned it.  I'm not
>at all convinced that the gifted are really all that different.
>  I feel great joy when I interact intelligently with other people.  It's fun

I'll be blunt and save some time.  Obviously this must be a subjective,
personal observation, by the very definition of what you're asking.

How do you define "need"?  To survive?  No.  To enjoy?  Probably not.
To want?  There you go.

I have a problem.  I get bored by stupid, repetitive, obvious, tedious
conversation.  Do I "need" otherwise?  No.  I want it.

I am no longer a member of Mensa.  Why?  I have intelligent friends.
That is, I have friends who _I_ consider intelligent.  Do they 
qualify for Mensa?  Well, as a matter of fact they do.  How do I
know?  I asked them.  How did this happen?  I'm sure the world is
full of folks who would tell me that I am being elitist, that this
is  just an incredible coincidence, that I am putting too much
importance on intelligence or intelligence testing, that they are
full of love and compassion, and that intelligence is an evil thing.

To them I say, "Yawn..."

I am very selfish in my choice of friends and in my choice of
entertainment.  I don't choose to do things that others deem
"right" or "cultured" or "charitable".  I choose things that _I_
want to do for reasons that are my own.  I don't give to charities
that I don't think are worthwhile simply because it's "in".  I
expend my efforts in ways that I think will be most productive.

Did I join Mensa for the snob appeal?  Yes.  Sorry to actually
succumb to a human need for self-worth, but I happen to be a human,
if you didn't know.  Are there folks who need no evaluation of their
successes or qualities, due to their efforts or of the qualities of
their ancestors, or others' perceptions of them?  I'm sure there
are some.  They're called "losers".  Show me someone who has accomplished
anything, and I'll show you someone with pride.  And show me someone
who doesn't take pride in anything that is not their own, personal
achievement, and I'll show you a dead person.  Everyone takes pride
in their families, their neighborhood, their children, their country.
Everyone that I've met that is worth a damn, that is.  Is my IQ a
function of my efforts?  Well, I just don't know.  Nature/nurture,
you know.  But if it's nature, well, I feel good about it.  Sorry
about that.  Foolish pride and all.  

How important was that snob appeal?  Well, I told only one person about
my joining Mensa, and that person immediately launched into a tirade
about how I thought I was "so damn smart", and asked what my IQ
was.  Representative?  Not at all.  Disgusting example of a bloated
ego?  Yes, on his part.  Or should I say a large, fragile one?  Is
this what I expect from everyone?  No, not at all.  But the point is
that the sentiment exists.  And aside from being paranoid, you should at
least be prepared for it.  People are different.  Mensa, although it shouldn't
and has no right to, intimidates a lot of people.  But we that have
joined know it's really not all that impressive.

I joined Mensa to meet people, especially women.  Did I succeed?
Yes!  I met all sorts of people that were much, much, much more
likely to be interesting and friendly and dependable and kind
and sexy than in all the years previous.  How?  Let's put it in
the words of some famous guy of the past:  "I don't give a shit.
It happened."

Why am I not a member now?  Don't need it, don't have the time,
married the smartest and sexiest human I had ever seen in the
world.  Mensa:  Function completed.

So when someone asks me "Why join Mensa?", I have to say, "Try it,
and if you don't like it, go elsewhere."

I doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

GMS