HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jxp@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Joe Potter)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: Music and Code from Demos
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:07:32 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

In article <MKNIP.92Nov9165110@blob.hut.fi>, mknip@niksula.hut.fi (Mats Anders Knip) writes:
> The copper, my dear PC-user, is what makes the Amiga so superior to
> the PC when it comes to (among other things) scrolling and color-
> cycling. The copper (Graphics CoProcessor) takes care of all bitmap
> and color handling, and has direct access to chip-mem by DMA.

	Makes cups of tea as well? :-)

> If you want to do anything with the screen, tell the copper about
> it, and it takes care of it all. (well, almost...)

	Don't forget the blitter!

> For example - let's imagine you have got a 1000-pixel wide bitmap that
> you want to scroll from left to right. On the PC, each frame you copy
> 200*320 (= 64k) bytes from memory to the graphics-handler (right?),
> which takes a LOT of CPU time. You can't even make a 50hz scroll on a 
> slower PC. (the C64 could do that...poor work, PC-designers!)

	Ah, but the C64 could only do it on a character mapped screen.
Try it with the bitmap mode!

>							 On the
> amiga, you tell the copper what part of memory you want to show, and
> the number of pixels to step over before it starts drawing and - POOF!
				^ after it finishes :-)
	And anyway, that's the display DMA that does that. Is it
Agnus that does DMA?  That's what's responsible for modulos.

> There you go. This requires a total of 2 word-moves per bitmap + one
> move for the fine-tune. Compare that to the PC's 64000...

	And when you want a block-mapped screen, do you unfold the
*lot* at the start, into a Megs worth of screen data?  At some point, in
real time, you need to blit blocks about.  It's the blitter that's fast in the
Amiga!

> 				      And this steals nearly no proces-
> sing time from the CPU at all, since the copper only works on odd cycles.

	Well, the copper uses whatever cycle is available, odd or even. 
The display DMA uses only odd cycles, unless you want to display lots of
colours, when it starts pinching even cycles.  The copper has priority over
the 68000, since it requires synchronous operation with the display.

> The blitter is another co-processor that has DMA access to the Amigas
> chip-memory. It can be used to move big heaps of data and
> perform operations on the data (like and, or etc...) at the same time
> without any load on the CPU (not completely true, but basically.
> Really complicated operations steal more cycles from the CPU, while
> a simple operations like a plain copy steals nearly no time at all). 

	A=>D copy uses every other cycle, and on a 4-bitplane lo-res
screen, steals every positive clock edge from the 68000 for chipmem access.
If the 68000 is running out of fast RAM, it is *never* bothered by the
DMA processors.  Except for their interrupts.
	If you've got a 4-colour lo-res screen, A->D is essentially free.
Of course, you have to include the overhead for setting up the blitter.

						Joe.
jxp@dcs.ed.ac.uk
From: jms1086@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: Questions....
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:48:36 GMT
Reply-To: jms1086@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

Well, I finally DLed HardWired... It went ok for a while, but then the music 
screwed up, and then when it displayed something along the like Time for
some RayTraced stuff, it Guru'ed... Is this more or less the same thing
that happens to you? (BTW- fergot to mention, I'm runnin' 2.04...)...

Ok... I talked to someone, and they gave me an idea on how plasma works..
Goes something like this: you set up a certian pattern on the screen, and
move the color registers, by moving the even colors up, and the odd colors
down... Ok.. Understand that... My Q is what a simple pattern that will
give the plasma effect?? I've tried to sit down a think one out, but
no go....

SOmeone was mentioning plasma on an IBM.. I have seen it, so it can be done..
I believe it was in VGA... I think it was in the UnReal demo...

Now demo prging on the 64... Gee.. I used to do that, years ago....
If ya have Q's about that, I'm sure I can remember SOME stuff... You 
people that used to make 64 demo's, anyone know what happend to the
American group Lords? They used to be pretty good! Alot of their stuff
impressed me....

						-Garion....
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 20:35:16 GMT

In article <1dg7r7INNjil@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:
>
>Well, why should we know about EUROdemos?

Because they are a standard by which other coding efforts should be
judged.  Even commercial works pale insofar as coding complexity and
efficiency go.  Also, if Americans were to ever again code a demo, they'd
be better off using PAL... you get better res, more things can be done
per vblank... I'd take those two over a slightly-sharper-image anyday.

>Now wait.  The Amiga is not a very popular computer here in the US.  Most
>people have Macs or IBMs.  It is not all that surprising that there aren't
>many American demos.  It is not that there just aren't any GOOD
>American demos--there just aren't ANY American demos.

That sums it up pretty well :).  It's interesting to note, however, that
there's no reason why there aren't at least some American members in
so-&-so groups... now that the Internet is so much more popular, this
is likely to change.

>But here...  out of 1000 or so undergraduates, I'd say there are at most
>10 Amigas.  That's 1% at such a technically oriented college as mine.

Isn't propaganda terrible? :)  I think it's ironic that the best computer
is the least popular... but then, it's also true that morons are a
majority.

>Maybe we should be asking you why you don't write more Mac or IBM
>demos or applications...

I think it's because Europeans are a bit more realistic, and choose their
computers more wisely.  Not a flame (except to Mac'n'IBM of course :).
Oh yeah... Mac&IBM demos are far less practical... you just can't DO
anything with those... applications (and games with very little action)
are abundant enough tho :).

 _____________  ________ __  ____  __  ______                                _
<__  _    _  //\\  __  // / / _  >/  \ \  ___> "Nan desu ka!? Kore.." -Ren_ //
   \ \\  // //  \\ \< << <_/ // __ <\ \_> >    mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu  \X/
 () \/ \/ \//____\\/ \/ \___/<_/  \_>\___/ ()  of M==E==G==A==W==A==T==T==S

Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: larshaug@ifi.uio.no (Lars Haugseth)
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Challenge ;)
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:06:44 GMT
Originator: larshaug@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no


In article <1duru9INNr5n@agate.berkeley.edu>, wchucky@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chuck Woo) writes:
> In article <gf0WxHa00VpeMCn6wm@andrew.cmu.edu> Sean Michael Goller <wipeout+@CMU.EDU> writes:
> >Speaking of the downward trend in assembly language programming, and
> >portability being the key in America, here's the ultimate challenge for
> >a 680x0 coder......
> >
> >
> >Write a demo for the macintosh. ;)
> 
> how about a demo for a workstation?  I mean, with $15000 worth of computer
> on your desk, it should be damn pretty easy, right?  ;)

A friend of mine has made a small 'demo' on the Sun IPX.
It has a little scrolltext, and a lightsourced filled-vector
diamond with 120 surfaces (each surface has its own colour).
Looks like it runs at about 20 frames pr.sec

+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Lars Haugseth                                             +-+
| Dept. of Informatics,               <larshaug@ifi.uio.no> | |
| University of Oslo, Norway                                | |
|                                                           | |
|          If idiots could fly, this would be an airport... | |
+-+---------------------------------------------------------+ |
  +-----------------------------------------------------------+
From: gunnbr@nextwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu. (Brian R Gunn)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: Music and Code from Demos
Date: 10 Nov 1992 18:09:40 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
NNTP-Posting-Host: l130b12.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <MKNIP.92Nov9165110@blob.hut.fi> mknip@niksula.hut.fi (Mats Anders  
Knip) writes:
> >   Well plasma on the IBM is currently done via palette cycling...
> > pretty fast and relatively easy to do (you've just got to do your code
> > right!)
> 
> Hmmm... You can't mean plasma. That would require a palette of
> thousands of colors. Color-bars perhaps, but not plasma.

Well, I saw an IBM demo which claimed to have plasma, which was indeed--just  
simple color cycling.  It was pretty poor.

Brian
From: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: x-specs demos?
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:51:48 GMT
Reply-To: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

Boy Wonder (bubblz@ecst.csuchico.edu) wrote:
>Unfortunately, X-Specs are not just pieces of plastic and cardboard.  They
>are goggles that fit over your eye, and have lcd shutters for each eye. 
>The shutters oscillate between transparent and opaque 30 times a second, and
>while the left one is opaque, the right is transparent... So all the software
>has to do is alternate images 30 times/sec and provide the right images and
>you'll see stuff in full color, flickery 3d.
>
>That's how it works in NTSC land, I'm assuming it would be every 25th of 
>a second over in PAL.
>

Anyone have the plans to convert the Sega 3D goggles to X-Specs?

You can get the Sega ones for about $45......I recall seeing a plan on here
to do just such a thing. anyone have acopy?

Jim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   It is not I who am CrAzY, it is I who am MAD!!!!! -Ren (SpaCe MaDDneSs)
Living w/o a computer 'till the 4000 comes. Sigh... X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
           Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
A4000 Coming SOON!!, Real soon.                 MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: akersse@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Elwix of Style)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: Questions....
Date: 12 Nov 1992 07:00:20 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: akersse@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Elwix of Style)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g222-12.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1992Nov6.194836.22251@ultb.isc.rit.edu> jms1086@ritvax.isc.rit.edu  
writes:
> 
> Now demo prging on the 64... Gee.. I used to do that, years ago....
> If ya have Q's about that, I'm sure I can remember SOME stuff... You 
> people that used to make 64 demo's, anyone know what happend to the
> American group Lords? They used to be pretty good! Alot of their stuff
> impressed me....
> 
> 						-Garion....

There are still active 64 groups in America... although not nearly as many as  
in Europe...  I'd bet there's a more active 64 demo scene in the states than an  
Amiga demo scene (hurm! that's not a flame bait alright! Just my observation!).
Probably 8-10 active (a demo every 2-4 months) groups here. And light years  
ahead of Lords demos, so if they impressed you, you might find it worth your  
time to check into the new demos released these days. Actually, only the coding  
has improved alot, I don't think there's really been much graphics and music  
better than Lords, only 'different'. Look for demos by Arson, Eclipse (the  
GROUP), and Style.
Or for the very best demos, as always try to find some of the cooler  
Euro-demos. Light years ahead of light years ahead of Lords :)

But for further 64 demo talk, why not move it to comp.sys.cbm, so as not to bug  
the Amiga guys too much :)

Steve
From: bubblz@ecst.csuchico.edu (Boy Wonder)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: x-specs demos?
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:30:24 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: erasure.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <91HRTB3w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> bbs.zio@tsoft.sf-bay.org (James Elkinton) writes:
>> Do you know of any x-specs (3-d glasses) demos around?  If ya do,
>> where are they?
>
>More importantly, anyone know of any X-Specs around?  I mean the glasses 
>themselves!  I can't seem to find them anywhere.  I have been scanning 
>most every mailorder ad in pretty much every mag I can get my hands on.  
>So wots da scoop?

Well, I can tell you where I got mine.  My roomates went to a 3-D Porno movie
here in Chico, California, and the theatre was giving them out.  So, if you
want to spend alot of $$$ to get a piece of cardboard and plastic, come on 
down to Chico and watch a 3D Porno!!!  (Gives new meaning to the phrase
"Cumming at you") :-)

-Jason

Pay no attention to this text, it's just because the new mail server won't
post any messages that are shorter than the original text. 
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asdfiuhaskjghaklufhakljgrhakjhfgaliuhrtekjahgd;lajsfgli;ajsrkltjgal;kfgs
asegiuahsekjhaslgdiuhaekljhaskljgdhaljkshtlakhsguahekjthlasufghakjethakljsgh
asefguiahegkjahgkljhakjghaskljhgakljgehakljshdglkjahsgjahsdgjkhasgdkjhasgj
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: schwamb@oyster.micro.umn.edu (Peter William Schwamb)
Subject: Re: The Lords (C64) Was: Questions...
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis: Under Grad Workstation Lab.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:43:19 GMT

In <1992Nov8.183306.26743@ultb.isc.rit.edu> jms1086@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:

 <stuff about Lords deleted>

>I'm just starting to get into 
>Asm, maybe I could start a little something in the US... Hmmm.. 
>I haven;t actually seen any demos from the US for the Amiga... Anyone
>wanna try and get a group togther, cause I'm sure there's alot of people

Yeah!, I've been coding on the amiga in asm for a couple years (on weekends
and other free time) and I've been trying to find members for a group but
there just aren't enough people where I live to do so.  It'd be great to get
a group together based on internet.

>getting tired of switching to PAL everytime to see a demo! Heh heh...

I know what you mean!  

>AH well... Just a thought.... 

And a good one at that.


  Olorin/Istari        schwamb@mermaid.micro.umn.edu
          ^
          |
          +-- I though this might be a good name for a group..     
              If you want to know where it comes from, write me.
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: mknip@niksula.hut.fi (Mats Anders Knip)
Subject: Re: Music and Code from Demos
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 11 Nov 92 11:46:43


>Well, I saw an IBM demo which claimed to have plasma, which was indeed--just  
>simple color cycling.  It was pretty poor.

So? I could make 25 colorbars, cycle the colors and call it plasma, but
that still doesn't make it plasma. Though, as I haven't seen the demo
I can't comment the effect. Is it FTPable from somewhere?
--

 *=-------------------------------------------------------=*=----------------=*
 *          E-Mail:   mknip@niksula.cs.hut.fi              *                  *
 *   Helsinki University of Technology /                   *                  *
 *                      department of Computer Science     *                  *
 *=-------------------------------------------------------=*=----------------=*
From: jms1086@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: The Lords (C64)   Was: Questions...
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:15:40 GMT
Reply-To: jms1086@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

Hmmm.. Well.. I just picked up a book on Asm, and the hardware
manual... So I'm going to try and get some stuff together... I still
have one idea for a scroll, that I had when I had my 64, that I still
haven't seen... So I'm going to shoot for that... I've seen similar,
but not quite the same...  But I really don't have that good an idea on
how to do scrolls on the Amiga.. Not yet... Workin' on it... 
Probably easier than it was on the 64.. Just gotta sit down and figure
it out... Oh well.... Off to the slave pits...

					-Garion...
From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Date: 7 Nov 1992 11:04:07 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.093758.20621@lth.se> d90mj@efd.lth.se (Maarten Johansson) writes:
>>
>>No, I don't dislike Americans and it's often stupid to generalize like
>>that. All those Americans I know are really nice friends in fact, but most
>>of them still don't know anything about eurodemos.

>Well, that's true :).  It's a mystery to me, too..

Well, why should we know about EUROdemos?

[stuff deleted]

>>I know
>>that I can't generalize too much, but I haven't seen any good american
>>demos since EagleSoft in 1986.

>That's one up on me :).  I've NEVER seen a good American demo.  However,
>I've seen a couple of very small but somewhat interesting Canadian demos :).

>>About one year ago I tried to start an American Demo Chart like the
>>EuroChart by Crusaders, to make people more aware of the existing american
>>demos. Maybe that's a good idea, don't you think?

>It would be a good idea if this country actually produced enough demos
>to make a top-ten (or a top-three... or a top-one ;)... the only group
>I know of that has any American members is ours (gee...duh! :)  Actually,
>I heard that a group called Bloodsuckers used to have some...but I haven't
>seen anything from them at all (so they're probably dead).

Now wait.  The Amiga is not a very popular computer here in the US.  Most
people have Macs or IBMs.  It is not all that surprising that there aren't
many American demos.  It is not that there just aren't any GOOD
American demos--there just aren't ANY American demos.

I have, however, noticed that most of the good animations seem to be
American.  There are a few American MODs out there.  Quite a few good
American utilities, etc.  These are things that can be done alone, though.
I have never actually worked on a demo, but I understand it is quite a
cooperative effort.  I suppose you could do it alone, but for the 
intricate (and thus impressive) ones, the specialists add their
masterpiece.

I mean, how many of you guys could make a smashing demo all by yourself?
Sure, you could do it, but it would take you quite some time.  But
with other people doing what they do best (coding, music, graphics,
or whatever), you can churn them out at some respectable rate.

But here...  out of 1000 or so undergraduates, I'd say there are at most
10 Amigas.  That's 1% at such a technically oriented college as mine.
In the general population, the percentage is much smaller. (and the
majority of those were bought by kids and used as game machines).  I
couldn't fathom getting together a demo group.  There are only a handful
of serious Amiga users groups across the country.

You should be surprised that any Americans have written ANYTHING for the
Amiga!

Maybe we should be asking you why you don't write more Mac or IBM
demos or applications...

keith

Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: d90mj@efd.lth.se (Maarten Johansson)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 15:19:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.044209.25592@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.093758.20621@lth.se> d90mj@efd.lth.se (Maarten Johansson) writes:

>>send me a module I can help you enter the next one in Denmark.
>
>The PartyII?  I was told that this was not possible... but if you can help,
>I'd appreciate it :).

Everything is possible if you ask your friends!

>>Music and demos are still not the same though.
>
>True... but I have been noticing that there are many significant parallels
>between coding demos and coding music... 

To make a really good eurodemo today you need at least half a year if
you are alone, but I can understand your point. 

>>I have got phonecalls from Americans in the middle of the night a couple
>>of times. The reason why they call is just in order to complain.
>
>Some people are morons :).  How did they ever get your phone #?

It's easy if they know your real name. Just call some phoneservice and then 
you'll have the number. Today I live together with my girlfriend and every-
thing is written on her. 

>>About one year ago I tried to start an American Demo Chart like the
>>EuroChart by Crusaders, to make people more aware of the existing american
>>demos. Maybe that's a good idea, don't you think?
>
>It would be a good idea if this country actually produced enough demos
>to make a top-ten (or a top-three... or a top-one ;)... the only group
>I know of that has any American members is ours (gee...duh! :)

A top-five chart is enough to produce an interest. 
There are few reasons why you code a demo:

* To help yourself learning how to code,
* To enter and maybe win a democompo, 
* To get some reaction from others in the demoworld,
* To reach the top demos on the charts,

So without diskmags, democompos and charts it's much harder for
people to produce demos.

>>Don't Blame The Lame!
>
>But they deserve it :).

The Lame ones are important if you want to spread your 
things and to pay the entrancefees.  

I'm SO SORRY that you americans out there didn't like my points in the
beginning of this session. My idea was to start a discussion, not to 
make you upset. 

I don't think it's arrogant to say that you never have made a mistake,
because you don't have to make any it you are careful enough. 

I have heard about a group called Enigma before and there exist people 
who find it very amusing to point out that Enigma has made a demo 
called Phenomena, which they never have. 

****************************************************************
 d90mj@efd.lth.se - Marten Johansson - Celebrandil of Phenomena
****************************************************************



Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason Balicki (KodaK))
Subject: Re: PT CIA timing Was: The Lords (C64) (Was: Questions...)
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:28:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.185417.19640@athena.cs.uga.edu> hazen@athena.cs.uga.edu (Mark) writes:
>Don't you just hate it when you know what you mean to say but you say
>the exact opposite? :-P 

No, it's never happened to me.  I never make mistakes.
(Sorry, couldn't resist. :)

>My other .sig is also an Amiga.              -hazen@athena.cs.uga.edu
>Mark Hazen			 	     -Reverb of Megawatts (huh?)
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
(yeah, it's bait)

--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
From: martineau@macmartineau.ccr.hydro.qc.ca (Alain Martineau)
Subject: looking for a DSD210 floppy cntrl.
Followup-To: alt.sys.pdp8
Organization: Hydro Quebec
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:49:03 GMT

A guy I know is looking for a floppy controller, a DSD210, he says. If you
can help him, please call him directly at:

Michel Fortin
DIGICO
514-967-7100

If you cannot reach him, e-mail me. Thanks.

Alain Martineau
Hydro Quebec
martineau@macmartineau.ccr.hydro.qc.ca
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
From: eli@spdcc.com (Steve Elias)
Subject: Re: Distribution of alt.sys.pdp8 improved
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 08:12:20 GMT

off to a terrifically technical start:

with dectape drives in cabinets mounted like so:

A B
C D

run a tape from drive C to drive D, running over the heads
heads of drive A and B.

next (on TS8) access drives C and D from two different terminals,
cower behind console terminal waiting for the inevitable 
startrek-like explosion.  but it never happens, because

dectapes are almost as strong as duct tape.

TAD,

/eli


-- 
/* eli@spdcc.com */
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8