From: keatesm@cs.man.ac.uk (Martin Keates(MSC RJH))
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Auto-plungers
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:34:58 GMT

lfs@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu (Lyman F Sheats Jr.) writes:

>blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:

>>Auto-plungers suck big fat hairy rocks.

I dunno, I think that the point is that the shot that the auto plunger is
supposed to make sucks, e.g. HS2 getting up to the top flipper. On a game
where the ball is just launched into the middle of the playfield (such as T2)
then it's o.k., except that then everybody complains about the inconsistency
for the skill shot.

>You know rON, I pretty much have to agree with you.  Auto-plungers do suck
>big fat hairy rocks.  They tend to break more often than the regular spring
>plungers found on games like um, (help me with some recent games here) --
>TAF, Black Rose, or Cue Ball Wizard.  But one of the things I really like
>about the auto-plungers is their ability to launch balls during multiball.

Their only redeaming feature, if you ask me. Particularly good on hectic
games like T2 and LW3. They'd be perfect for a game with say a five ball
multiball or something, where balls just kept being launched into the
playfield (and the bonus ball type feature you mentioned).
I don't think that the question of them breaking really matters, although
obviously you want as few breakable parts (that would render a game
unplayable) as possible. Take a look at TAF - spring plunger, but two
kickers. When one of these breaks, the game is buggered (when the chair or
swamp is getting a bit weak then its fun shooting 2 or 3 balls in on of them
during multiball and seeing its pathetic attempts at returning them).
And these can give instant ball drains "if they're not set up properly"
(such as the chair kicking straight down the middle, or the even better
swamp->top of right bumper->centre drain->throw machine out of the window).

>Then I thought about auto-plungers a little bit more, and discovered the
>only ones I really didn't like were the ones that would occasionally (or
>very frequently) drain your ball on you.  No, I'm not going to talk about
>HSII or Fish Tales again, so everyone can relax :-).

Like I say, bad design, asking too much of the plunger. I think that
autoplunger games ought to just feed the ball onto the right flipper or
something like that (like HS2 multiball) - even the shitest weak ones could
do that :).
Speaking of fish tales, this is a good game for practicing death saves on -
get your instant 2-ball multiball here :).

>But one thing both SMB and Dr. Who do is use the auto-plunger to launch
>balls during multiball.  It's kind of nice from a design point of view,

T2 was the first to do this, I think. Also LW3, and HS2 sometimes. And I
agree, it's quite nice. Certainly with autofire you don't get those sodding
annoying drain-2-balls-straight-away-then-that's-your-lot-mate multiballs
that you get on say Black Rose. (BTW I like this game, especially the quite
generous ball saved feature that allows you to hit the skill shot, drain the
ball and shoot the locker). TAF is a bit better with thing multiball lit for
a while. LW3 is great, with autofire _and_ a multiball restart.

>as you don't have to allocate/waste playfield space to store locked balls
>(as non auto-plunger games like TAF (the swamp), Black Rose (the lagoon),

Well, I wouldn't say _wasted_ space. Without the ball locks I can't see
there being much space released anyway (especially on TAF where they are
under the playfield). BTW, I've had 3 ball multiball on BR so ner :). The
sodding locker doesn't open properly, but there are two switches in the
lagoon (or whatever it's called).

>and Cue Ball Wizard (the ramp) do).  So I guess what I'm saying is that
>the only time I'm going to complain about auto-plungers is when they drain
>the ball without players ever getting a chance to touch the launched ball
>with a flipper, or, if, God forbid, a game like Bad Cats (with no *real*
>skill shot, no multiball, and therefore no use for an auto-plunger) comes
>out with an auto-plunger.

No *real* skill shot? Ok, so where's the *real* skill shot in HS2 or Fish
Tales? Personally I think that a *real* skill shot would be one that
involved a ball flying onto a flipper and having to flip at a _moving_ (like
T2) target on the fly. That would be a *real* skill shot.

>I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm rambling, but I really enjoyed playing for

Yup. But I am too, so I'll let you off :).

>the first time a game as half as old as I that could have possibly been better
>if it had an auto-plunger.  Now that auto-plungers are here, and apparently
>here to stay, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing their usefulness increase.

>--
>Lyman F. Sheats Jr.
>lfs@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu

Martin (who's _finally_ started getting billion plus scores on TAF etc. :).
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball