HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: Magnet schools
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 21:31:51 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Distribution: na
Originator: clin@step.eng.umd.edu


In article <1993Jan8.201921.8493@julian.uwo.ca>, roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts) writes:
>
>I am not talking about everage children. There are those who know
>advanced calculus before they ever enter high school.
>The interrelational problems between those children and their classmates
>are still greater.
> 

    I think the kinds of people who enter magnet schools, while possibly
bright, aren't *that* bright.   The number of people who know calculus
prior to high school (to me that's 9th or 10th grade) is exceedingly
small.   However, the numbers that learn calculus in high school while
small, is nowhere near that small.   Perhaps those people who do know
calculus by 9th grade ought to go to college, but at the level of better
than average, and below genius, magnet schools appear to have a niche.

--
Charles Lin
clin@eng.umd.edu
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: dalk@login.dkuug.dk (Lars Kalsen)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Success Motivation Internationel, Inc.
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:05:28 GMT
Organization: DKnet

Hi,

Has someone herad about a company

          Success Motivation International, Inc.
          P.O.Box 9126
          Waco, Texas 76714-9126

And the founder Paul J. Mayer.

I would very much like to hear about what kind of company it is, experiences
with the compnay etc.. Please E-mail me.


Greetings from Denmark

Lars Kalsen
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: Magnet schools
Organization: Quake Public Access
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 10:44:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan09.051645.7327@eng.umd.edu> clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:
>    There is another way, but it may end up with problems similar to
>the ones in Japan.   Tie everything into education.   Make the top
>positions only available to those who graduate from the top schools.
>While this is perhaps even more controversial, it would certainly
>make education VERY important.   The bad news is that it would stress
>getting certain scores on tests, and doing well on exams above all else,
>and that doing well, not for learning's sake, but to get good jobs.

The obvious flaw here is that it assumes that the only (or most important)
way to learn something is by sitting in a classroom listening to a
professor.  By this standard, Thomas Edison couldn't get a job as anything
better than a bottle washer, and Steve Jobs wouldn't make it out of the mail
room.

--Brian
Xref: sparky misc.education:5684 sci.edu:1272
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:13:16 CST
From: Howard Wachtel <U13054@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.education,sci.edu
Subject: Purdue Cafeteria System

   In my research I have heard of a system of evaluating college teaching
called the "Purdue Cafeteria System".  Can any readers provide any
information on how I could find out more about this system?  Thank you.
________________________________________________________________
Howard K. Wachtel              University of Illinois at Chicago
U13054@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU        Phone (312) 975-7970
Xref: sparky misc.education:5632 alt.sex:40878
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: Magnet schools
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:21:25 GMT

What is wrong with elitism. A sense of "being the best" makes it far more
likely than an individual will go on to do great things. Giving this to the
best and brightest makes it much more likely that the schools will produce a
trully great person.

Jason W. Solinsky
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: Seminar Program
Organization: Quake Public Access
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 07:36:06 GMT

In article <P395wB2w165w@netlink.cts.com> forcer@netlink.cts.com (Nicholas Rahaghi) writes:

>The Intelligent sector of this society needs to recieve 
>attention.  True, IQ tests are not necessary valid ways of testing 
>smartness in a person but they are one way. After all, who are we to say 
>who is smart :-< . 

I really hate this attitude.  People are so terrified about actually making
a judgement about students that they would rather sacrifice their educational
growth than take a chance of being called "wrong" or "an elitist".  We have
no choice but to evaluate the progress and potential of students.  If we are
unwilling to do so, we might as well just give up and stop wasting our time 
trying to educate kids at all.

Can you tell a genius from a mentally retarded child?  Can you tell the 
difference between a 3rd-grader and an 8th grader?  If not, there is no point 
in prefering one over the other.  Pardon my flame, but this idea that any
evaluation of students is bad or questionable is a big problem in education
(and elsewhere).

--Brian
From: an3329@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Re: Ethical question about reviewing papers for a conference
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: misc.education
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 02:18:54 GMT

solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:

>In article <1993Jan9.113916.27542@fuug.fi>, an3329@anon.penet.fi writes:
>|> I'm a graduate student and I have a bit of a problem
>|> with my advisor.  He gave me some papers to referee,
>|> and these papers were submitted to a conference to
>|> which I have also submitted a paper. The problem is
>|> that these papers are very similar to the paper which
>|> I submitted, and so they will be competing directly 
>|> against my paper. I told him that I could not act as 
>|> an impartial reviewer, and I asked to have someone else
>|> review the papers, but he refused.  (He is also the
>|> conference co-chairman).  
>
>The proper thing to do is ask the conference chairman. If he says it is OK
>then it is OK. The responsibility for guaranteeing an impartial reviewing
>system rests with the conference chairmen. It is their responsibility to
>consider your bias (after you bring it to their attention.). If you made
>your advisor aware of the conflict of interest and he said that you should
>still review the papers, do so. It is likely that were your review out of
>line with those of the other referees, your bias would be taken into account.

That seems like reasonable advice, but I've received conflicting 
advice over in soc.college.grad to refuse to review the papers.
Could you perhaps come over there and offer your opinion 
on their advice? I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: Ethical question about reviewing papers for a conference
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 19:56:42 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Originator: clin@modulation.eng.umd.edu


In article <1993Jan9.113916.27542@fuug.fi>, an3329@anon.penet.fi writes:
>I'm a graduate student and I have a bit of a problem
>with my advisor.  He gave me some papers to referee,
>and these papers were submitted to a conference to
>which I have also submitted a paper. The problem is
>that these papers are very similar to the paper which
>I submitted, and so they will be competing directly 
>against my paper. I told him that I could not act as 
>an impartial reviewer, and I asked to have someone else
>review the papers, but he refused.  (He is also the
>conference co-chairman).  He said that it was perfectly
>acceptable for me to review the papers, but I don't believe 
>him.  What do I do?  I was thinking of refusing to review
>the papers by not submitting a report, and just let the
>deadline slip.  Please respond by posting because this 
>site does not have secure e-mail. 
> 

    Though I am not really familiar with the reviewing process, it seems
as if there is something of an ethical dilemma.   On the one hand, since
the work is similar to yours, you would seem qualified to make some judgments
on the work.   On the other, you may have some quota of papers that should
be accepted, and you may feel that there is a perception that you rejected a paper
to make yours look good.

    Given that your advisor is your advisor, and that you may not have
anyone to back you up on this, I would probably suggest that you go
ahead and review it.   Also, given that you feel that there may be
ethical problems, one would assume that you would be able review the
papers without ulterior motives because you are already worried about
improprieties.

    You could also consider trying to talk to other professors to see whether
this is really a problem, though professors can be friends with one another, 
and you may feel the need for confidentiality.

--
Charles Lin
clin@eng.umd.edu
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: wgatherg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William Gathergood)
Subject: E-Mail Survey
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 02:25:59 GMT


My 12 year-old daughter is doing a Science Fair Project on Electronic Mail and 
would like input from people all over the world.  Please <R>eply to this with 
pertinent information filled in on this _very_ short survey. Thanks in advance.



NAME:                             AGE:



COUNTRY:




HOW DID YOU COME UPON ELECTRONIC MAIL?








HOW HAS ELECTRONIC MAIL EFFECTED THE WAY YOU COMMUNICATE WITH OTHERS 
SINCE YOU GOT THIS SYSTEM?







ARE THERE ANY PERSONAL FINANCIAL COSTS FOR YOU TO HAVE E-MAIL, NOT COUNTING
INITIAL HARDWARE INVESTMENT?





HOW WOULD YOUR WORK / PERSONAL COMMUNICATIONS BE EFFECTED IF E-MAIL WERE
NO LONGER AVAILABLE?




Thanks again for your time,
BILL GATHERGOOD          wgatherg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: Ethical question about reviewing papers for a conference
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 00:25:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.113916.27542@fuug.fi>, an3329@anon.penet.fi writes:
|> I'm a graduate student and I have a bit of a problem
|> with my advisor.  He gave me some papers to referee,
|> and these papers were submitted to a conference to
|> which I have also submitted a paper. The problem is
|> that these papers are very similar to the paper which
|> I submitted, and so they will be competing directly 
|> against my paper. I told him that I could not act as 
|> an impartial reviewer, and I asked to have someone else
|> review the papers, but he refused.  (He is also the
|> conference co-chairman).  He said that it was perfectly
|> acceptable for me to review the papers, but I don't believe 
|> him.  What do I do?  I was thinking of refusing to review
|> the papers by not submitting a report, and just let the
|> deadline slip.  Please respond by posting because this 
|> site does not have secure e-mail. 

The proper thing to do is ask the conference chairman. If he says it is OK
then it is OK. The responsibility for guaranteeing an impartial reviewing
system rests with the conference chairmen. It is their responsibility to
consider your bias (after you bring it to their attention.). If you made
your advisor aware of the conflict of interest and he said that you should
still review the papers, do so. It is likely that were your review out of
line with those of the other referees, your bias would be taken into account.

Jason W. Solinsky
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Culture
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 06:32:37 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Originator: clin@feedback.eng.umd.edu


In article <38177@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>, djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.081435.2354@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> turnerbl@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
>
># A perception is going around that poor balck students can't learn
># because of the schools that they are in.  This has been disproved
># again and again by the waves of immigrant asian students from poor
># schools who still score in the top of their schools as well as top
># in the SAT/ACT tests.  Students, not schools, make these choices.
># It always comes back to the kid.
>
>Well, yes, but the kids have to learn their values somewhere.  It
>seems to me that parents have to learn what sort of support kids need
>to thrive in school (for instance, the TV is off on week nights) and
>parents have to be collectively strong enough to counter the lure of
>the peer culture.
>
>David
>
>


   This is probably where some of the difficulty lies.  I think part
of it is external to the poor black community, and part of it is
internal.   Some blacks blame external reasons for the problems,
and some whites blame internal reasons for the problems.   For
example, externally, blacks are not treated well by non-blacks,
and males have reputations of being lazy, violent, and not trustworthy
which is certainly not conducive to making blacks feel welcome.
Internally, parents need to place more control on the activities
of their children, and press the importance of education.  Of course,
some do, but perhaps not enough do.   In addition, inner cities
do face problems of violence and teenage pregnancy, etc.  I think
internally, there needs to be some set of values that puts an
emphasis on reponsibility and toward education, and move away from 
the idea of being the coolest person around, and bragging, and playing
within the system.   I think inner-city blacks want their communities
to be safe communities, with people playing around, and where they
do not have to worry about violence.   

    Externally, there needs to be some effort not to discriminate, and
to provide some kind of financial aid, in terms of jobs.   I would say
part of the reason that inner cities face part of the problems is due
to the unemployment.

    However, I think both internal and external changes have to come
about, and the internal changes, while much harder to achieve, will 
be the changes that are meaningful and lasting.

--
Charles Lin
clin@eng.umd.edu

Newsgroups: misc.education
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Subject: Re: Magnet schools
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:31:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan07.182300.7993@eng.umd.edu> clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:

>   I read a moderately recently issue of US News and World Reports which
>discussed the issue of "magnet" schools.   Magnet schools, for those of
>you who don't know it, are schools that admit highly qualified students on
>the basis of examination or other similar means.   For example, New York
>City has several schools like this (Stuyvesant, Bronx School of Science,
>Brooklyn Tech, Hunter College, etc.).   I think the idea is that in a city
>as large as New York, and with so many schools, it is difficult to maintain
>a high quality education throughout since not all students are highly
>motivated.   

>    Therefore exams are given, and anyone getting some score is admitted
>into these schools (which are free).   The distribution of various ethnic
>groups is pretty good, and so some minorities like this system because
>it gives a chance for qualified minorities to get the kind of education
>they want.   The downside is that it may foster a bit of elitism where
>top students are getting more of the resources than the rest of the
>city.

>    My personal opinion is that, if it is not really possible to maintain
>high education throughout a city or town, either due to the lack of
>high quality students or teachers,  then magnet schools are a good idea.
>They make sure that those who are both willing and able are not hampered
>by the location that they live in and made to go to a school where they
>are not educationally challenged.   It also offers a way to emphasize education
>as something to strive for.

It is impossible to maintain the quality of education which the bright
need and provide it for the average and below average as well.  The 
problems of the American system have been brought on by the movement
which got into power around 60 years ago to teach all children the
same.  The differences between children are even greater than the
IQ differences would indicate.  Any system which tries to teach all
children the same is automatically bad.  And the differences between
children are great enough that teaching them all in the same manner,
but at different rates,  which is more or less as it was until the
divergence into college preparatory and terminal programs, is also
not correct.  The problems are not entirely of motivation, but also
of ability, and even the development or damage done by the previous
education.

But having children travel to schools for special work should be
reduced; it is too costly, especially in time.  In this electronic
age, we can provide specialized classes without physical movement.
This can be done on an individual course basis, as well.  

-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: misc.education,sci.edu
From: wayman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jeffrey Wayman)
Subject: Re: Smart kids (Was Re: Magnet schools)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:38:16 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <C0nrL4.39q@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> idfriedm@hertz.uwaterloo.ca (id friedman) writes:

...lots of stuff you've already read deleted...

> Nobody is saying that extracurriculars are not important. However, you
> must realize that in many school a strong anti-intellectual sentiment
> exists. The kids who do well in math, science or other subjects are the
> "geeks and nerds". So waht is happening is that a lot of these kids are
> suppressing their desire to seriously learn these subjects.

I don't think you've opened my eyes to a new problem; this is as old
as dirt.  I think extracurricular activities can do a lot to combat
any "anti-intellectual sentiment" students might feel.  In fact, they
can even help students see that it's possible to be smart and cool at
the same time.  Besides exposing the gifted child to lots of new 
experiences.

Jeff         wayman@lamar.colostate.edu

Xref: sparky misc.education:5769 sci.edu:1285
From: x90shroff@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: WANTED: GRE book and disk
Date: 9 Jan 93 15:33:37 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

Hi,

I am looking for book on GRE and the guide available on disk. If you 
have them for sale pleas email me back with your offer.

Thanks to all.

Sanjay Shroff
x90shroff@gw.wmich.edu

Newsgroups: misc.education
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Culture
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:23:33 GMT

In article <C0DLrM.Bzz@quake.sylmar.ca.us>, brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan3.212307.6498@athena.mit.edu> solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
|> >In article <38069@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>, djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns) writes:
|>  
|> >|> You don't think that American workers benefitted from having had 10
|> >|> percent of the population excluded from the job market?
|> 
|> >They probably did. I would say that that was another reason in favor of the
|> >"preference" if it weren't for the fact that the same people that had an
|> >easier time job hunting payed significantly higher taxes to finance the
|> >salaries of those abroad.
|> 
|> I completely disagree, and I think you need to take a much different view of
|> economics in order to see it.  The most important action of workers in
|> an economy with regard to individual well-being is not how many jobs are
|> "filled", but how much production is going on.  If 10% of the population
|> is not producing (or not producing as much as before) then the overall
|> wellbeing which can be achieved is going to be roughly 10% less.

I would remind you that despite the loss of 10% of the workforce (if 10% is the
correct figure) production increased tremendously. A consensus wartime effort
breeds nationalism and with it productivity.

|> Jobs do not exist in some static quantity in order to be doled out and 
|> divided up.  This view of jobs as some kind of natural resource is the
|> source of an awful lot of confusion in economics if you ask me.  Perhaps
|> of the educationists started treating production as the primary goal of
|> economics rather than the distribution of what has been produced, we wouldn't
|> see so many economically naive views being so popular in the political realm.
|> 
|> Remember Say's Law:  You can't consume more than you produce.

Say's law doesn't work in these United States.

Jason W. Solinsky
From: protocom@DMI.USherb.CA (protocom-Laurent turcotte)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Teaching kids/Adults computer concepts
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:11:30 GMT
Organization: Universite de Sherbrooke -- Dept. d'Informatique

I'm looking for ANY info about TEACHING computer concepts to kids or adults...                
                                                                                
        -It could be done using smalltalk and turtle graphics...                
                                                                                
        -It could be done using hyperCard like programs...                     
                                                                                
        -It could be done with a book od some kind...                       
                                                                                
        -Anything (the sky is the limit)                                     
                                                                           
I'm thinking of doing a University school project on this                  
                                                                            
P.S. ANY FEED BACK ON THIS IS DEEPLY APPRECIATED NO MATER HOW SMALL        

-- 
Larry Turcotte                           Internet:protocom@dmi.usherb.ca
computer science student/consultant
consulting company:Protocom              Is there anybody out there.....
Newsgroups: misc.education