HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Villi
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:25:21 GMT
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

In article 5868@actrix.gen.nz, Pat.Churchill@bbs.actrix.gen.nz () writes:
|
|David Adams was asking if anyone made the villi.
|
|Yes, I did this past weekend.  I out the grains he sent me in about a
|pint of fullcream milk and left in on the bench (counter).  That was
|Saturday.  Nuttin happened.  Sunday:  Nuttin happened.  In the end I
|dumped all of the villi grains in.
|Monday afternoon everything had thickened up.  A great gluggy gloop of
|stuff.  It rolls round in the jar, doesn't stick to the sides.
|Totally different texture to yoghurt.  I have it in the fridge now and
|will try it to make some ranch dressing if I can overcome my prejudice
|at eating a gloop of slime.
|

Well good.  So my drying technique worked.  good.

|So now - what do I do if I want to make more?  Keep some and put it in
|another lot of milk.  How do I keep it if I want to give it a rest?
|Freeze it?

Yep, that's my guess, just mix a bit with more milk and leave it at 
room temperature.  To give it a rest I would say fridge it.  (Freezing
may also work.  After all I kept the powdered stuff frozen.)

|How else can I use it?

You can tell your kids it is that ecto-plasmic slime and let them
play ghostbusters.  (But then they will probably never eat the stuff.)

I belive Seismo indicated he uses it for cooking.


|
|Please tell me :-)
|-- 
|| The floggings will continue until morale improves
|| Pat.Churchill@bbs.actrix.gen.nz (Pat Churchill, Wellington, New Zealand)
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|



---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Pickle Relish request
Date: 11 Nov 92 21:36:10 GMT
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

In article 1@skcla.monsanto.com, jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com () writes:
|Since this forum seems to have a dedication to fermentation/pickling as well as
|its moniker, maybe someone has a suggestion for me?
|
|To me, a Chicago-style hot dog requires glow-in-the-dark pickle relish.
|It doesn't really glow, but boy is it GREEN.  Most relishes are a dark green in
|color, and not as sweet, nor nearly as vinegary.
|This seems to be a vanishing commodity.  At least two local hot dog joints in
|my neighborhood dropped it 'for cost reasons'.
|

I made some fermented dill pickles and fermented jalepen~o pepers this
fall.  (I love those jalepen~os!)  They don't seem to be anything like
neon.  The green is more faded if anything.  Are you sure you are speaking
of a fermented pickle?  (meaning brine cured or lacto bacteria fermented.)


---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: source for Kefir culture
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:08:33 GMT
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.


I recieved a few Kefir grains from Ron Feldstein, and they are growing
now in my closet.  I already have more than I personally want and 
hence am able to share a few pieces.  (To tell the truth I haven't
dared try the stuff, I'm just growing the rocks.  ;^)  I started out
with what appeared to be a few (that is about eight ;^) small grains.
I mixed them with about one or two ounces of 2% milk and left it in 
the zip lock bag inside a tumbler (cup) hidden away in my closet.  I 
remembered to check on them after about 3 days.  I was utterly amazed!
Those little grains had each swelled up to the size of small pebbles.
The make up about 1/2 tsp now in volume.

I will probably be able to share a small pebble (grain) with the
first 3 or 4 askers.  (Which probably will not be too big a deal
as I've only ever had about that many request the viili culture.)

Send SASE & zip close bag as usual to 


David Adams
1625 Dixon Dr.
St. Paul Park, MN 55071


Also a note of apology to all those who have send requests for sourdough
cultures and are still waiting.  I really haven't had a free weekend
in a month to attend to such duties.  I will get to it soon.


BTW, has anybody ever made viili from the culture I sent them?



---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: bwalther@alfred.carleton.ca (Bill Walther)
Subject: Re: Sourdough pancakes topped with...Birch Syrup!
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:52:19 GMT

In <1992Nov11.015508.3722@wam.umd.edu> jengagne@next03cville.wam.umd.edu (Jenny Lynne Gagne) writes:

>I haven't ever had any myself (sigh) but I hear tell that birch syrup,  
>made the same way as maple, is even better.  However, it takes such a  
>large volume of sap to get the syrup that people don't mess with it  
>anymore.

I have heard of people making "birch beer" from birch sap.  I don't
know how it would be on sourdough, though :-)

Any information on birch beer?
From: msr7@po.CWRU.Edu (Mark S. Rzeszotarski)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: sour-sour
Date: 11 Nov 1992 02:39:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


>Subject: sour-sour
>From: A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove)
>Date: Tue Nov 10 17:30:13 1992
>
>I want to make my sourdough more sour.  How do I do it?
>
>I have tried using more starter
>putting in more sugar (so the yeast will make more sour)
>letting it rise for 3-5 hours
>
>What makes the sour?  and I can I make the bread more sour?
>
>
I have been experimenting with a couple of starters and the
effect of temperature on the sourness of the bread.  Based, on
my preliminary experiments I suggest you try proofing the dough
for about 12 hours at close to 85 degrees F.  With two quite
different starters, I have found that temperature seems to
be the key.  You will also get a more sour result if you use
some rye flour in the bread.  According to the literature I have
been reading, a temperature near 85 results in the rapid
proliferation of several beneficial lactobacilli (bacteria) in
the bread which help it to sour.  I built a temperature controlled
proofing box and have been using it for my experiments.  Too bad
it takes about 3-4 days between each experiment! (Not enough
fiendish butter slatherers around!)
        In summary, I suggest proofing for a longer time at an
elevated temperature if possible.  Also, don't add too much sugar
or you will inhibit the growth of the yeast.
Regards,
-- 
Mark S. Rzeszotarski, Ph.D. (msr7@po.cwru.edu) CWRU Biomed. Eng.
Medical Physicist, The Mt. Sinai Medical Center, Cleveland, OH, USA
"So long and thanks for all the Saccharomyces Exiguus!"
From: delwiche@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Charles Delwiche)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Applejack (was My Dog Ate It!)
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:46:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.BxM153.CyL
Organization: Biology, Indiana University - Bloomington

In article <1dto3cINNk1b@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cf603@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Sill) writes:

>>(Delwiche)
>>cider freeze to the point where it forms a slush, pure ice will freeze
>>out first.  ... The liquid in the slush will be high in solutes; alcohol
>>and apple solids, maybe a little residual sugar...
>
>(Sill)
>A friendly warning: this is *extremely* illegal.  It's equivalent, legally,
>to making moonshine.

Hmm...  Good point.  Never thought of that. :-(  Well, let's just say
it is a historical method.  Of course it has nothing to do with
sourdough anyway.

-- 
-------
Charles F. Delwiche			(812) 855-2549
Dept. of Biology, Indiana University
Bloomington, IN 47405
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
Subject: My Dog Ate It!/Bays Sourdough Muffins
Organization: Searle, Skokie, IL
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:50:34 GMT

Two items:

1) My wife has been making sourdough for about a year from a starter passed
around our family as a 'friendship bread', but has usually used additional
quick-rise yeast as per the instructions she got with the starter (don't boo
me, please).  Since I recently discovered this forum, and downloaded the
archives, yesterday she tried a starter-only loaf (I'll take the cheers, tho).

It took 2.5 hours for the first rise, so our starter really works.  She made
two medium-size loaves, and they were much tastier than others she's made. 
They weren't appreciably sourer than the sourest the starter has produced, but
the overall flavor and texture were much superior.

We left 1/2 loaf sitting on the counter covered with plastic, 
and OUR DOG ATE IT OVERNIGHT :^(  and then proceeded to relieve herself on
our rug for the first time since we got her from the shelter.  I don't know
which I'm madder about.

2) Bay's English Muffins (a Chicago regional brand) has recently come out with
sourdough English muffins.  I've only eaten one of them, and since I covered it
with peanut butter, I can't vouch for the flavor, but the texture is better
than their standard, quite a bit chewier, less soft and mushy.  Yesterday's
Chicago Tribune had a short article which said that the current owner's father
started the bakery in the 30's supplying Chicago hotels.  Here's a quote:

   '"Back then we used a sourdough for our rye bread," Bay recalled.  "They
   kept the starter... in an old wooden trough where it could work.  In the
   hot summer when it went wild, the baker would pour a couple [of] shots of
   bourbon in it to calm it down"'

It goes on to say that they are now using a starter from San Francisco, and is
kept "in a more sterile setting."

Does anyone ever sedate their beasties that way?

Joel
-- 
jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I want peace on earth, and goodwill towards man."
"We don't do that kind of thing, we're the United States Government!"
  -- from _Sneakers_
From: jtrott@bcsaic.boeing.com (James Trott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: steam
Summary: making steam for french bread
Date: 3 Nov 92 20:31:20 GMT
Distribution: rec.food.sourdough
Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle

I say an interesting show the other day on making sourdough french
bread.  The chef said that he puts a metal pan in the oven while  
preheating the oven.  Then, after he puts the bread in the oven, he
quickly pours water into the pan to produce steam.  He said that it is
the quick burst of steam right at the first that helps the crust along.
He said that ovens in France have cords next to the door that release a
burst of steam for this purpose.  

This lines up with my experience.  Last time, I put a pan of boiling
water in the oven and some of it spilled onto the oven floor producing a
lot of steam.  I must say this produced a nice effect.     
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: Pat.Churchill@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Subject: Re: My Dog Ate It!/Bays Sourdough Muffins
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 04:57:44 GMT

In article <43610003@hpmwetg3.sr.hp.com> dondd@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Don Dillon) writes:
> >Interestingly enough, it also implies that sourdough starter has at
> >least a moderate amount of alcohol in it (which makes sense), so
> >pouring a little alcohol in the starter just might work to keep it
> >slowed down.  I can't say I've ever tried this though.  Presumably you
> >wouldn't want to overdo it.  I guess that's why the liquid on top of
> >the starter is called "hooch".
> >
> >-- 
> >-------
> >Charles F. Delwiche			(812) 855-2549
> >Dept. of Biology, Indiana University
> >Bloomington, IN 47405
> >----------
> 
> 
> Is this hooch drinkable?  I mean, it probably tastes bad, but would it make
> you sick or what?
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Don { wonder what this button does?.... } Dillon
> 
> INTERNET : dondd@sr.hp.com
> TELNET   : 577-3690
> PHONE    : 707-577-3690
> 
> 


I don't think I want to be the one to try it out.  It looks kind of
vicious :)  Anyone got a still.  Rec.food.sourdough.bootleg?
-- 
| The floggings will continue until morale improves
| Pat.Churchill@bbs.actrix.gen.nz (Pat Churchill, Wellington, New Zealand)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: dondd@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Don Dillon)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:05:53 GMT
Subject: Re: My Dog Ate It!/Bays Sourdough Muffins
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough

>Interestingly enough, it also implies that sourdough starter has at
>least a moderate amount of alcohol in it (which makes sense), so
>pouring a little alcohol in the starter just might work to keep it
>slowed down.  I can't say I've ever tried this though.  Presumably you
>wouldn't want to overdo it.  I guess that's why the liquid on top of
>the starter is called "hooch".
>
>-- 
>-------
>Charles F. Delwiche			(812) 855-2549
>Dept. of Biology, Indiana University
>Bloomington, IN 47405
>----------


Is this hooch drinkable?  I mean, it probably tastes bad, but would it make
you sick or what?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don { wonder what this button does?.... } Dillon

INTERNET : dondd@sr.hp.com
TELNET   : 577-3690
PHONE    : 707-577-3690


Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: joelw@convex.com (Joel Williamson)
Subject: Sour sourdough...
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:50:57 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Three times in my life I have kept a sourdough starter, once for over
ten years.  I used it regularly (2-4 times a month), but never achieved
the sourness of a good San Francisco bread (e.g., Acme).  I read the
books, followed the hints, and was never satisfied.  I'd like to try
again, and would appreciate any advice you can offer.

Thanks,

Joel Williamson
-- 

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: delwiche@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Charles Delwiche)
Subject: Re: steam
Organization: Biology, Indiana University - Bloomington
Distribution: rec.food.sourdough
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:55:08 GMT

In article <86536@bcsaic.boeing.com> jtrott@bcsaic.boeing.com (James Trott) writes:
>I say an interesting show the other day on making sourdough french
>bread.  The chef said that he puts a metal pan in the oven while  
>preheating the oven.  Then, after he puts the bread in the oven, he
>quickly pours water into the pan to produce steam.  He said that it is
>the quick burst of steam right at the first that helps the crust along.
>He said that ovens in France have cords next to the door that release a
>burst of steam for this purpose.  
>
>This lines up with my experience.  Last time, I put a pan of boiling
>water in the oven and some of it spilled onto the oven floor producing a
>lot of steam.  I must say this produced a nice effect.     

This is true for the San Francisco sourdough bakeries as well.  They
have ovens with little steam jets in them to keep the humidity in the
ovens very high.  The food science types feel that this is essential
to the character of the bread.  I put a pan of water in the oven even
when I am browning the "brown and serve" commercial bread.

-- 
-------
Charles F. Delwiche			(812) 855-2549
Dept. of Biology, Indiana University
Bloomington, IN 47405
From: cf603@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Sill)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Applejack (was My Dog Ate It!)
Date: 12 Nov 1992 14:01:15 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cf603@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Sill)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, delwiche@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Charles Delwiche) says:

>If you want a good adventure in "sourdough" (sensu Alaska) alcohols,
>try making applejack.  First make hard cider... let the hard
>cider freeze to the point where it forms a slush, pure ice will freeze
>out first.  ... The liquid in the slush will be high in solutes; alcohol
>and apple solids, maybe a little residual sugar...

A friendly warning: this is *extremely* illegal.  It's equivalent, legally,
to making moonshine.  If you do try it, don't advertize that fact to anyone
you don't *really* trust.  It would be terribly unfortunate to have your
house seized by the Feds under the civil forfeiture rules used in the War
on Some Drugs.

Forewarned is forearmed...which is half an octopus.  :-)

  
-- 
Dave Sill
Play: cf603@cleveland.freenet.edu
Work: de5@ornl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: delwiche@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Charles Delwiche)
Subject: Re: My Dog Ate It!/Bays Sourdough Muffins
Organization: Biology, Indiana University - Bloomington
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 02:55:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.120234.12811@hemlock.cray.com> dadams@cray.com writes:
>In article 20569@actrix.gen.nz, Pat.Churchill@bbs.actrix.gen.nz () writes:
>|In article <43610003@hpmwetg3.sr.hp.com> dondd@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Don Dillon) writes:
>
>
>|> Is this hooch drinkable?  I mean, it probably tastes bad, but would it make
>|> you sick or what?
>|> 
>
>|I don't think I want to be the one to try it out.  It looks kind of
>|vicious :)  Anyone got a still.  Rec.food.sourdough.bootleg?
>
>Didn't someone tell us that the Eskimos will drink the hooch to get 
>drunk? 

Excuse me for my cultural narrowness, but a party with hooch and whale
blubber?  Bleh.  ;-)

-- 
-------
Charles F. Delwiche			(812) 855-2549
Dept. of Biology, Indiana University
Bloomington, IN 47405
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: delwiche@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Charles Delwiche)
Subject: Re: My Dog Ate It!/Bays Sourdough Muffins
Organization: Biology, Indiana University - Bloomington
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:12:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.095034.1@skcla.monsanto.com>
jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com writes:

>Two items:
>
>1)
[text omitted]
>We left 1/2 loaf sitting on the counter covered with plastic, 
>and OUR DOG ATE IT OVERNIGHT :^(  and then proceeded to relieve herself on
>our rug for the first time since we got her from the shelter.  I don't know
>which I'm madder about.

>2)
[text omitted]
>   '"Back then we used a sourdough for our rye bread," Bay recalled.  "They
>   kept the starter... in an old wooden trough where it could work.  In the
>   hot summer when it went wild, the baker would pour a couple [of] shots of
>   bourbon in it to calm it down"'
>
>It goes on to say that they are now using a starter from San Francisco, and is
>kept "in a more sterile setting."
>
>Does anyone ever sedate their beasties that way?
>
>Joel

It would seem that you are not the first people to have their dog
decide to eat their sourdough.  In my wanderings in the literature I
found the following:

Thrall, M.A., Freemyer, F.G., Hama, D.W. and Jones, R.L. (1984)
_Ethanol toxicosis secondary to sourdough ingestion in a dog_.
J_Am_Vet_Med_Assoc 184:1513-1514.

I haven't read the article, but those of you sourdough buffs with dogs
might want to check it out...  

Interestingly enough, it also implies that sourdough starter has at
least a moderate amount of alcohol in it (which makes sense), so
pouring a little alcohol in the starter just might work to keep it
slowed down.  I can't say I've ever tried this though.  Presumably you
wouldn't want to overdo it.  I guess that's why the liquid on top of
the starter is called "hooch".

-- 
-------
Charles F. Delwiche			(812) 855-2549
Dept. of Biology, Indiana University
Bloomington, IN 47405
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: sour-sour
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:09:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.155437.1091@bnr.ca> Tim Dudley <dudley.chi@xerox.com> writes:
>David Adams says the sour comes from lactobacilli - has anyone tried
>adding one of those little lactobacilli acidopholus capsules (available 
>health food stores and pharmacies) to a batch of starter?  Any 
>predictions and/or warnings?  Any brave  souls want to experiment 
>and let us know what happens?  (I'd do it myself, but it's too cold 
>outside now for the starter to start, and I  wouldn't want to try 
>something like that inside...  :-)   )

I wouldn't want to add it to an established starter that I liked.  
Maybe not even to one I didn't like.  As I understand it, the
yeast and lactobacilli in a culture are in a symbiotic relationship.
They produce toxins that will generally keep out other types of
yeast and lactobacilli but are harmless to each other.  If you
added a new lactobacilli to a starter in a weakened state (cold)
the new strain might take over and edge out the old lactobacilli.
I'd also be afraid that the new lactobacilli might create toxins
that would kill the yeast.  You would still have an interesting
tub of organic glop but it would be worthless for bread.

Of course, maybe nothing would happen.  I assume that lactobacilli
acidopholous is used in yogurt.  It might not be able to survive the
sourdough environment (it might want milk instead of a flour environment.
Now I know yeast digest the gluten.  What does the lactobacilli
digest? assorted sugars?)

Julie
DISCLAIMER:  All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else
From: randy@raven.alaska.edu (Randy Hayman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Say "Bo-Deen"!
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:27:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: raven.1992Nov5.222733.20354
Reply-To: randy@raven.alaska.edu (Randy Hayman)
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks

dadams@cray.com (David Adams) writes:
|>
|>In article Bry@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca, molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom
|>Molnar) writes:
|>
|>|culture.  I wish I could get my crusts to be as good as that on the
|>|Tasajara loaf.  I must buy their bread book next time I see it.
|>|
|>|Tom
|>
|>Try letting the loaf rise and bake in a Dutch oven.  I find that my
|>Dutch oven traps steam in and hence imitates a steam oven and makes
|>a really nice crust.  
|>

Ditto for those wonderful Rommertopf (tm) clay baking pots (as you soak them in
water for the clay to absorb moisture).  This soaking keeps the dough from 
drying out on rising, and keeps the moisture/steam in while baking.


|>---
|>--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
|>___________________________________________________________________
|>       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.
|>

Randy
sxrmh1@orca.alaska.edu