HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: poor Micrurus fulvius, evil girlfriends, questions, suggestions
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 05:05:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Keywords: don't trust those coral snakes [incredibly short article]

In article <1992Jul20.220444.14434@osf.org> oaf@serverx.osf.org (Oded Feingold) writes:
>Stuart M Castergine writes:
>	...
>>Everyone will be pleased to know that the Coral Snake is fine. As for
>>my girlfriend, Pandora ... well, ...
>
>==============================FLAME ON=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>I'M SORRY, I DON'T BUY THAT!  No matter how fine your animal looks
>now, you take it for a booster shot or I'll have the SPCA on you for
>reckless endangerment, neglect, and aggravated halitosis!
>==============================FLAME OFF-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Great flame, Stuart.  God, I love this newsgroup...

BTW, I was curious: do coral snakes have neurotoxic or hematoxic venom?
Just how deadly are they?
-- 
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)
From: melanie@cayman.amd.com (Melanie Typaldos)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Hatchling horned lizards
Summary: Eye problem
Keywords: lizards hatchlings eyes
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:53:56 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc., Austin, Texas

I am looking for some advice on what to do with a hatchling horned
lizard (Phrynosoma cornutum) which is having difficulty opening its
eyes.  This lizard is the runt of his litter, the other seven are
all healty and look bigger (although they seem to weigh the same,
about 0.7 grams).  This lizard can't seem to get his eyes all the
way open.  He's three days old now and unless his eyes open, he
won't be able to eat.  Otherwise he acts about as normal as a blind
lizard can...he buries himself at night, comes out in the morning,
squirms when you pick him up.  I tried soaking him but that didn't
help and I'm worried that he'll drown.  What can I do?  I need help
fast since it is critical that he gets something to eat soon.

By the way, just to head off any comments on this topic.  Yes, this
is a protected species in the state of Texas (where I am).  I have
a permit.  This lizard is part of a research project on the use
of fire ants as a food source for horned lizards. 

----Melanie

Melanie (Melanie Typaldos)        melanie@cayman.amd.com  
AMD 29K Systems Engineering
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: mstephens.520@postman.gsfc.nasa.gov (mark stephens)
Subject: poison arrow frogs... is this the place?
Organization: nasa/gsfc
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:58:34 GMT

I just posted "National Aquaria and frogs" when it occured to me that,
being new to this field (I'm mostly into tropical fish), is this the group
for poison arrow frogs?  If so, what are THE books to read to learn more.
I want those little "guys" doing thier thing in a bromilliad in my living
room too!

          mark
From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Cbildren's python
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:05:06 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

To all who responded to my post about the other pythons, thanks a mil. 
Here's another question:

	Children's Python (Liasis childreni):  reports are that these snakes
are quite available, easy to keep, friendly, and, for those with small space
available, only reach up to 3.5 ft.  Any experience here?  If I get a
python, I would be apt to get this one because of the size.

	
	Are breeders holding tightly to female Diamonds so that they can
earn more money and have a corner on the market.  Besides tri coloured
Kings, I'd have to say this is one of the most beautiful non-venemous snakes
around.  

Thanks again,

*******************************************************
* Teddy Kalivoda  ------------ tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu *
* 	University Computing & Network Services       *
*	  Institute of Higher Education (Drtobe)      *
*                                                     *
* "Philosophers disagree about everything"            * 
*       --Henrikus Aggripus Cornelius von Nettlesheim *
*******************************************************
From: stevep@wrq.com (Steve Poole)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Horny iguana update
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:47:08 GMT
Organization: Walker Richer & Quinn

Well, Shep's raging hormones have calmed down after a week of
feverish intimacy with his stuffed love iguana.  It was actually
about three days of attempted mating and a couple days on each
side of aggressive and flighty behavior.  As of this morning he
was allowing me to pick him up again without biting or running,
and his territorial displays have abated.

He did manage to draw blood from me for the first time; while I
was changing his water at one point he latched onto the side of
my thumb and unleashed a wild head thrash that sliced me up
handily!

So, having done a some research and a whole lot of observation,
I think it's pretty clear that he's just an early bloomer.  There's
no doubt that it was mating behavior.

Someone made a few strange assertions in this thread, those being
that iguana iguana isn't sexually mature until 5 years and that
juvies are sexually dimorphic.  False on both counts; 2 to 3 years
is normal, and even adults can't be positively sexed without
probing or hemipenal eversion.  Pet store owners who suggest that
dewlap size in a hatchling is relevant should probably be treated
warily.

Thanks to all who commented.  I'm really glad this only happens
once or twice a year, and now I know what to expect.  It's good to
have my happy lizard back!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Internet: stevep@wrq.com  -  AOL: Spoole  -  INTEL 80x86: Just say NOP -
- "Nurse! Do let's pretend that I'm a hungry hyaena, and you're a bone!" -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: srh3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Steven R. Hollis)
Subject: hognose, sailfin update(you might not beleive this)
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:53:08 GMT

Heh, you guys , what happened after I posted my last emergency bulletin was
astounding.  I am a zoo major and I find it hard to beleive.

Last night after posting, I decided to build a stiff, cardboard partition
to separate the tank I have my sailfin in.  I then put the hognose on one side and the sailfin on the other.  Well, I got up at about four this morning
and the hognose must have burrowed through the gravel to the other side
I took the partition out to see what would happen overnight (call me gutsy,
call me stupid, I'll agree, but hey--it was four in the morning)  This
morning I got up and they were both still in there.  In fact my roomate told me they were sharing the heat rock today and neither seemed antsy (and no, the room
is not cold enough to send them into a stupor) I am gonna keep them both well
fed and see what happens until I get a tank. Do not worry, I will watch for signs of stress (irritibility, chain smoking, etc.  *heh*) and will remove the snake at the first signs

Keep ya'll posted

Steve

--
srh3@ra.msstate.edu                              Oh, bother.

Steve Hollis                                      ---Winnie-the-Pooh

Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: bagus@netcom.com (Mark E. Ruedy)
Subject: Yikes! Mites! Help!?!
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 00:40:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

Help!  I've just discover that the boa I'm watching for a friend is 
covered with mites (they look like moving sesame seeds).  I put Phrank
into a warm bath hoping to drown the little suckers.  I've sprayed her
aquarium with half water half ammonia cleaner.  I'm also on my way out 
to get a no-pest strip.  I got that all from a book.  

Does anyone have any other suggestions?  I plan on checking back
later today.

thanks in advance.

-mark 


Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: stevep@wrq.com (Steve Poole)
Subject: Horny young iguana
Organization: Walker Richer & Quinn
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:55:03 GMT

Has anyone ever seen behavior like I'm about to describe?  I'm a bit
concerned about my ig ig, Shep.  He's less than a year old (thus I've
only been guessing that he's a he to begin with) and is very friendly
and tolerant.  The last two days, however, he has become extremely
flighty and intolerant of my picking him up, to the point where he
flees or runs around blindly and frantically.

Last night he was roaming across the room and encountered a
stuffed green iguana toy which I've had for a while, and with which
is familiar.  It's probably three times his size, but he jumped
atop the thing and immediately turned into a raging horn dog!  I've
only read descriptions of iguana mating behavior, but this was
CLEARLY it.  He was biting, clawing, and grinding away for all he was
worth.  He also turned from his usual bright green to an olive color.
This went on for probably 15 minutes or more.

So, what's up?  Is his biological clock off?  Is this normal for a
prepubescent male iguana?  Is a change in behavior normal for adult
male iguanas when they mate, and how frequently are they so inclined?

I'm hoping that he got his rocks off and will have returned to his
normal, happy state by tonight, but I'd sure like to hear from anyone
with some thoughts on this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Internet: stevep@wrq.com  -  AOL: Spoole  -  INTEL 80x86: Just say NOP -
- "Nurse! Do let's pretend that I'm a hungry hyaena, and you're a bone!" -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: rotheroe@convex.com (Dave Rotheroe)
Subject: Re: Green tree pythons + Diamon & Carpet
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:22:14 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

>>Hi folks, is there anyone who has had experience or knows about
>>	
>>	1) Green tree pythons ($, care, availability)

>I've had some green tree pythons (_Chondropython_viridis_).  They are pretty,
>but they are also expensive, nasty, and relatively hard to keep.  They also
>have *big* teeth that make an interesting crunching sound when they pucture 
>your skin.  They need a large cage with branches.  Don't expect to handle them.

Paul, it sounds like you were bit.  Ouch.  I've seen the inside of the mouth
and the teeth, and I cringe at the thought.

To the original poster: if you 1/2" 'fangs' (for catching birds in flight)
go ahead and get one or a couple.  I had the "opportunity" to clean 6 of
their cages.  They prefered to just sit on their perch, but when they got
mad...   Their care mainly requires attention to humidity and somewhat to
temperature, but if these are done, they can be easily kept *by an
experienced keeper*.  The cages I cleaned were smallish and sparse - about
the size of a 20H tank, positioned vertically, and were furnished only with
an "H" shaped perch and a water dish.  The Dallas Zoo has had success at
breeding them (and Emerald Tree Boas), so much so that I don't think they
have breed either in the last couple of years.

>IMHO, these are *not* snakes for anyone who has not had a 
>considerable amount of experience, particularly with the grey or Cook's tree 
>boas, _Corallus_enydris_ ssp.  Some people are breeding Chondros, but the 
>babies are expensive and more difficult than the adults, so far.

Agreed, only for the at least semi experienced keeper, preferably someone
who will breed them (then again I say that about breeding for anything but
the most common reptiles).  The animals are not all that expensive, though.
I was offered a pair for $600 recently.  Probably the main reason I didn't
take it is the equipment I would have had to buy or build, and the time I'd
have to spend caring for them (and probably a little fear of the teeth).
I'm still trying to find a reasonable price for under tank heating pads or
tape for a 12 tank display rack I'm building. (Suggestions anyone?)

==================================================================8--<
Dave Rotheroe                rotheroe@convex.com              DoD#0045
CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX 75083-3851, (214) 497-4512

Death is a reward for being responsible.
From: bzandrew@bbs1984.chi.il.us (Bill Zandrew)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Cheese, Meat and Mouth rot...
Date: 26 Jul 92 06:35:21 GMT
Organization: Not an Organization

In article <wZV1NB1w165w@aficom.ocunix.on.ca>, dave@aficom.ocunix.on.ca (Dave
Hunter) writes:
>nivek@terapin.com (Kevin Bierl) writes:
>
>| You might want to find a copy of "Reptile & Amphibian Magazine" Jan./Feb.
199
>| It has a great article about the care of Iguanas. It gives a complete care
>| overview, including breeding. One of the best things is it includes a chart
o
>| what is the best veggie for your Ig.
>|  
>
>I would have difficulty getting a copy of the above magazine.
>Would it be too much to ask for a synopsis of that chart in this forum? 
>I'm always looking for good food ideas for my ig and this opportunity 
>sounds too good to pass up.
>
>Thx.
I would like more info also.  My Iguana is spoiled, but super cool.  I'm always
looking for ways to improve his health.  The year on the message was chopped
off.  Could you please repeat it?
From: rotheroe@convex.com (Dave Rotheroe)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: HELP: Cage size for grown columbian boa ? (7 feet)
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:33:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: convex.rotheroe.711930792
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

>>What cage SIZE would *you* recommend for a 7-8 foot, not very active,
>>female columbian boa constrictor ? 

>Nigel, a male Columbian boa, is 7.5 feet and he has his own bedroom.  I

If I did that for all my "pets", I'd have to get a several million dollar
house built!  :-)  A 7-8 foot snake is more than happy with a 2x4 foot cage,
which can be easily made from a single sheet of 3/4 inch plywood with zero
waste (and a bit of hardware).  A good primer and a couple of coats of oil
base paint will make an excellent and easy to clean surface, and an aluminum
track with 1/4 inch glass makes an excellent front.  I use hardware cloth
(think of a heavy duty screen) in a wooden frame on a 3/4 track for my
sliding fronts, as it allows more airflow and I didn't have to put some
other form of ventallation in instead.  It costs me about $50 in materials
to build a sturdy, attractive cage 2x4x2' cage, and about $125 for a 3x6x2'
(which is large enough for just about anything short of an adult anaconda).

==================================================================8--<
Dave Rotheroe                rotheroe@convex.com              DoD#0045
CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX 75083-3851, (214) 497-4512

Death is a reward for being responsible.

A day without sunshine is like...   night
From: vmh@vmh.Eng.Sun.COM (Valerie Haecky)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: HELP: Cage size for grown columbian boa ? (7 feet)
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:18:36 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmh

It's time to move Curly from her cradle to a permananet home!

What cage SIZE would *you* recommend for a 7-8 foot, not very active,
female columbian boa constrictor ? 

There needs to be room for a water bowl, a hiding box, and a large
branch or a shelf (upstairs).
The literature I checked out, did not give any measures.


Also, do you use wooden cages, or plexy glass tanks ? 
(I have been thinking of either getting a custom built wooden cage,
or buy a suitable plexyglass aquarium and and build a door/shelf
into it myself.)


Valerie
--
                 __                               
     _______    /*_>-<       Valerie Haecky           _ ^---^ 
 ___/ _____ \__/ /           vmh@vmh.sun.com         <_|-----)> 
<____/     \____/                                       v---v 
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut)
Subject: Speaking of EBV...
Followup-To: rec.pets.herp
Summary: Caveat Vivarium
Keywords: Vivarium
Organization: Rocking Pig Enterprises
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:20:23 GMT

Since someone brought it up, I stopped in at East Bay Vivarium last
week on my way out to Sacramento.  Now, I bought my little Burmese
there last November who has been a joy and not had any serious medical
problems (except the one injury-related much later), and at the time I
was very impressed with EBV and their staff, and had nothing but good
to say about them.  But I hadn't been in the place once since then,
until last week.
I must say, my opinion of them has dropped significantly.  Anybody
else been in there recently?  At the time I went (fairly early
morning, so maybe this is understandable) there seemed to be only two
staff in the whole place, who didn't seem to know too much about what
they were doing; but beyond that, it was the treatment of the animals
that I think has changed.
	First of all, they ought to call the place 'East Burmese
Vivarium'-- I think over half their snake stock was Burmese
Pythons.  A lot of them were BIG, like 12' and over, and most were
kept in cages way too small (I think around 80 gal. or so), and most
of those were in heinous states of un-cleanliness (large piles of
obviously old excement, complete sheds in cages that the occupant was
nowhere near freshly shed).  Baby Reticulates of 7-8 feet were kept in
cages of about 15 gals.  Sometimes two to a cage.  Not to mention the
egglings behind the counter that are kept in boxes less than half the
size of a standard shoebox... but since they seem to turn over very
fast, I don't think THAT is too much of a problem.  Basically the
overall cleanliness left a lot to be desired.
	Lizards weren't faring too well either; there was a large
(male?) green iguana kept in a cage with several tortoises-- did
anybody see this guy?  Either he had the worst underbite in history,
or the top of his snout had been snapped off by one of his housemates.
But he was going for full price, and there was not even a note
explaining the problem.
	The turtles seemed to be faring overall best, but then I have
absolutely no idea about the space requirements of turtles or anything
like that.  Their water was very clean overall, and they seemed
healthy and active to me.  
	They don't keep the African Chameleons outside anymore, BTW,
which I think is a step in the right direction.  Also, they did have a
huge, walk-in, fully wired for electricity wood-glass cage 7' x 5' x
3' for $300, if anyone's interested.  I'd snap that up myself but
money is just too tight right now...
	Anyone else who's blown through there recently, I'd appreciate
comments/impressions either here or thru e-mail.




-- 
 /'''     Kyle Wohlmut -- Rocking Pig Enterprises
 c-OO     'Heute back ich, morgen brau ich, und uebermorgen hol ich
    \      mir der Koenigin ihr Kind.  Ach, wie gut dass neimand
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Breeders in Las Vegas, NV?
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:54:41 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

I'm headed to LV in a couple of weaks and wonder if anyone know of any snake
breeders there.  I saved the breeder list but there were none in NV.

Perhaps I could have some luck looking in the papers when I land.

ted
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: srh3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Steven R. Hollis)
Subject: Taming a beast  NOT!!!!
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 21:15:03 GMT

Hi all.  I just got back from visiting a camp in Missouri where one of the 
counselors had a nice snake collection.  It included a 5 foot king snae
a pretty copperhead, and a rat snakeamong others.  He was about to let the specimens go and asked me if I would like one.  I told him sure.  I chose a small  approx. 1' long hog-nosed snake.

I know these reptiles are the bluffers of the reptile world and the moment 
I get near him he is gonna poop and puke and pee all over everything. 

What is the best way to go about hand-taming one of these.  Do you do
it a little bit at a time by letting him get accustomed to you or do you
just grit your teeth and start handling him from the get-go???  All the 
other snakes I have handled have been tamed already, but since I am a 
zoology major I guess I gotta learn sometime

Thanks in advance.

Steve

--
srh3@ra.msstate.edu                              Oh, bother.

Steve Hollis                                      ---Winnie-the-Pooh
From: bzandrew@bbs1984.chi.il.us (Bill Zandrew)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Heating methods?
Date: 26 Jul 92 06:46:16 GMT
Organization: Not an Organization

In article <1992Jul17.184008.3543@progress.com>, gerard@progress.COM (Gerard
Bras) writes:
>dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Jul17.065937.27024@equalizer.fps.com> wayne@fps.com (Wayne
Lich
>te) writes:
>>>[A recommendation for heating tape/strip]
>
>>Is it possible for a heating-strip-gone-wrong to *overheat* the tank to
>>the point that it would harm the animals?  
>
>You bet.  Even if they don't die, they may suffer permanent neurological
>impairments, at least this is true for snakes.
>
>>I believe my leopard geckos
>>are comfortable to at least 92 F or so (I *think* - correct me if this
>>is wrong), so if it gets a little warm, that'd be OK.   I just don't
>>want a good slow bake of my new pets.
>
>
>Cold blooded animals have no mechanism for shedding excess heat.  Watch
>your thermostat carefully.  It's not a bad idea to calibrate once in a
>while either.
>
>
>regards,
>gerard
Once again I'll add my two cents.  I have been using hot rocks for my lizards.
They come in 3 temperatures.  I'll guess they're around 70,80,90.  The one I
use is around 80 degrees.  It appears to me that when the animal is too cold or
too hot, he gets off the rock or goes back on it.  Am I being too naive to
think he's this smart?  
        I have never lost an animal (lizards only) to one of these devices
going bonkers.  I lost hundreds of dollars of fish to faulty thermostats on
heaters.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: debra@solbourne.com (Debra Frances)
Subject: Re: Horny iguana update
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:56:04 GMT

Ditto on it not NECESSARILY taking 5 years to maturity - ditto again on dewlap
size not being definitive - and congrats on getting your bud back!  Good iguana
news here - my breeding pair just presented me with 34 eggs!  Hopefully, some
hatchlings will appear in about 3 months.  Also, my gold tegu laid 9 eggs, and
my other gold tegu is gravid.   And my savannahs that I've been raising from
hatchlings are BREEDING.   
                
                    DEBRA ( I breed burmese to pay for my varanids)FRANCES
From: bpb9204@tamsun.tamu.edu (Brent)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: poor Micrurus fulvius, evil girlfriends, questions, suggestions
Summary: *Spoiler*
Keywords: don't trust those coral snakes [incredibly short article]
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:40:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: tamsun.1992Jul22.204054.9180
Followup-To: rec.pets.herp
Organization: Texas A&M Univ., Inc.

|
|What did happen to the evil girlfriend anyway?  Stuart came home and found
|what?  A bloated corpse?  Someone tell me!!!!

Oh, it was HORRIBLE!   SOB! SOB! SNIFFF!

By the way, SNIFFFFF, did anyone get around to sending FLOWERS?!?  BA-HAAAW-
HAAAW!


-- 
+-------------------------+  Pale Terror trembling guards the fountain's head,
|Brent P. Burton, N5VMG   |  And rouses Fancy on her wakeful bed;
|bpb9204@tamsun.tamu.edu  |  From realms of viewless spirits tears the veil,
+-------------------------+  And there reveals the unutterable tale. - M. Lewis
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp