HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong
From: glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo)
Subject: Re: Mainland stealing Benz from HK (was Re: TW News 7/10/92)
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:10:58 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <9228714.23660@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:
>gangzhou@koh-sun13.usc.edu (Gang Zhou) writes:
>
>>The city with the highest number of Mercedes Benz per Capital in the world
>>may be Stuttgart, Germany, the HQ of Mercedes-Benz AG, where nearly
>>every worker of the Mercedes-Benz AG drives a Mercedes. They get a 20%
>>discount and may sell the car for the same prise a year later.
>
>I'm pretty sure it's HongKong.  That's what I've read.  What's the
>population of Germany?  77 Million, whereas HK is only 5.8 Million.
>
>Maybe not the *city* with the highest number per Capital, but definitely
>country/colony/whatever_you_call_HK.
>
And besides, all Benz in HK are high-end models but quite a number
of Benz in Germany are low-end models.  Those they use for taxi cars
are very cheap cars, nothing like 500SL, those cheap cars are just
the same as the nissan, datsun taxis we have in HK.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.china
From: pan@arete.ATMOS.ColoState.Edu (Victor Pan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Fresh 1991/1992 Economic Strength of East Asia
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:58:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: yuma.Oct13.175811.9013
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523


	can somebody explain a bit what the "Reserve(IMF?)" is? in my impression, it's  
equivalent to the "gold standard", the higher the Reserve is, the more reliable is the  
currency? is this right? how did taiwan soar its "reserve"? by trade surplus? does the  
"reserve" have practical use?
From: ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Bush or Clinton?
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:19:47 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <YCHEN.92Oct15125707@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu> ychen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Yung-Chin Chen) writes:
>
>I suppose that you saw the TV vice-presidential debate. What do you think?
>Dan just kept attacking the personal character of Clinton. After the debate,

	The problem is not attacking the personal character of Clinton
	(the leadership quality of a candidate is certainly a must issue),
	it is that Dan does not seem to have anything about himself and
	Bush to offer besides that issue.

>I quote from CNN: "Dan Qualye (sp?) is a disaster for President Bush.

	Fire that CNN idiot :-) Bush should be pleased that he has
	Dan doing the job for him. If we judge the debate simply but
	the "debate" itself, Dan probably lost. But if we judge the
	impact of the debate in the framework of entire election,
	Dan achieved his objective; so he won from that perspective.


Yung-Kao Hsu
From: scc53091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve C. Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: WHO KNOWS ABOUT RECENT TAIWAN POP CHART ?
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:42:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw3EAL.H14
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

bsou@cs.arizona.edu (Brandon S. Ou) writes:


>Well, I think Wang Chieh's new album entitled "Ying1 Xiong2 Lei4"
>(Hero's Tears), is pretty good.  Although I think buying CD's from
>Taiwan is not a very smart idea, my relatives in Taiwan tell me
>that those CD's cost about 500NT, which is more expensive than the
>same ones you can get in the US...
>But of course, Japan is another story.

	No...I visited Taiwan for 3 months this summer.  The CD's are around
	NT$300 +/- 50.  I even found some American group CD's for around
	$290 (US$12.00).  So...things are pretty expensive there, but the
	CD's have pretty reasonable prices.  (Well, depends on where you get
	them too)  :)

>Brandon
>--
>Brandon S. Ou  ~{E7Ji:j~}     Department of Computer Science    
>University of Arizona               Tucson, Arizona
>Internet:  bsou@caslon.cs.arizona.edu
>" It's up to YOU... "  - Kevin Costner as Jim Garrison, "JFK" 

Steve Chen
From: chang@ctron.com (Rex Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: How to give birth to a son?
Keywords: How to give birth to a son?
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:24:48 GMT
Reply-To: chang@sleepy.ctron.com (Rex Chang)
Organization: Cabletron Systems INc.


   The real answer for how to give a birth to a son, I think, the originator
   knows best. You have 5 daughters right. Remember how you did those?
   Right! Just don't repeat what you did and reverse every step. Then,
   you will get a son!! :-)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:14561 alt.chinese.text:496
From: huang@mwilliams.eche.ualberta.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: How to give birth to a son? -- No way!
Date: 16 Oct 92 23:16:05 GMT
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

pchang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Pei-Yuan Chang) writes:
: 
: So what else you men are talking about?  Equal?  Different?  Gee!  Women and
: men will never ever be equal!  The only thing we have to know is learning how
: to respect each other.  Look at this topic, you guys,  what do you think women
: are?  Machines for "entertaining" you men and making a baby?  What century are
: we now?

Equality is not sameness.  Women and men are equal yet different.  Mutual
respect does not necessitate uniformity.   
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:14204 soc.culture.china:27368
From: lix@doc.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Thank you Steve!
Date: 10 Oct 92 01:30:38 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: Boston University

I am glad to learn that Mr. Steve Lin has sent his check to SOS
China Education Fund. I apologize here if I had any offending remark
during recent waiting period. I was too impatient and might have
misunderstood some words from Mr. Lin.

Well, to end this happy announcement, I have to give a free lecture:
========================================================

From <<Ci Hai>> (1979 edition, ShangHai) p1297:

(Wood+Meeting) I. Gui, also Kuai, (1) name of plant,... (2) painting
on the cover of ancient coffin,....

II. Hui, name of Qin Hui of South Song.
========================================================

This lecture is abosulutely free, and all words are translated truthfully
up to the best of my knowledge.

-- 
The SOS China Education Fund is a non-political, non-profit and independent
organization to raise money promoting the education in rural China. All donations
are tax-deductable. Make checks or money orders payable to: "SOS China Education
Fund"; c/o Jie KANG, 2610 E. 5th Pl, Apt. 1, Tulsa, OK74104, USA.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: huang@mwilliams.eche.ualberta.ca ()
Subject: Re: Bush or Clinton?
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:54:53 GMT

ding@eng.auburn.edu (Z. Ding) writes:
: Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
: Subject: Re: Bush or Clinton?
: Summary: 
: Expires: 
: References: <1b006hINN5p4@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Oct10.221825.1295@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>
: Sender: 
: Followup-To: 
: Distribution: na
: Organization: Auburn University Engineering
: Keywords: 
: 
: In article <1992Oct10.221825.1295@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> huang@mwilliams.eche.ualberta.ca () writes:
: >I just want to remind folks that Bush's VP is Dan Quayle.  And Quayle, like
: >many other conservatives in GOP, is an ardent ROC supporter. He was almost 
: >successful in getting enough votes to pass his amendment to the Taiwan Relation
: >Act in 1979 which would have maintained formal diplomatic relationship with
: >ROC.  If Clinton were elected, then expect a Secretary of State called
: >Stephen Solarz, who has not been friendly to Taiwan.
: 
: Dan Quayle may be an ardent ROC supporter, but he is also the most idiotic
: VP in the history of USA. 
: 
: As for Solarz, he may not be a strong ROC supporter but he surely is a
: very vocal Taiwan Indep supporter. I can see how he's been unfriendly to
: Taiwan at all.

I don't understand the point of re-posting an article.  Response 9 is the
same as Response 4.

"The most idiotic" VP has been proven false before.  Besides, what's wrong
when the VP stressed the importance of family values?  And aren't those
values consistent with the Chinese traditions?  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ychen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Yung-Chin Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Thoughts after Minister Wang requested for resignation
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:21:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: sp1.YCHEN.92Oct9122138
	<YCHEN.92Oct8120250@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu>
	<1992Oct9.100707.3802@vax.muskingum.edu>
Organization: /homes/ychen/.organization

In article <1992Oct9.100707.3802@vax.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:

   In article <YCHEN.92Oct8120250@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu>, ychen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Yung-Chin Chen) writes:
   > 
   > Legislators never represent people. They represent for their own interest.
   > We all know that these legislators are rich although they were not when
   > they got elected. 

   > situation never happens in Taiwan. It is too bad that Lee is not
   > elected by people, and people have no power to control him.
   > 
   > I though that the politics in Taiwan has improved in recent years, but
   > now I find that there is still a long way to go.....


	   ** I can see serious self-contradition in the above tailored 
	      quote:

	      You wish government officer and legislators can be elected
	      by people. You also think once they were elected, people can
	      no long control them.

	      Politics will not be improved unless this dilemma is solved.


Sorry. Mr. Law: 

I did not catch your point. My opinion is that to get elected by
people and to be controlled by people are two different things. Now
goverment officers are not elected by people. Most of them do not care
what people think and how they feel. They make decisions for the
reasons only god knows.

On the other hand, legislators are elected by people (I would say
partially because money talks all the time). They will propose their
idea to please people when the election begins. However, after they
get elected, they may not keep their promise and at that time people
have no way to control them (if there is one, tell me how).  I believe
it is a worldwise problem but Taiwan has a serious one.

ychen
From: yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday ROC
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:39:14 GMT
Reply-To: yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA, USA

In article <92282.192814U34654@uicvm.uic.edu>, U34654@uicvm.uic.edu (K.
H. Hwang) writes:
|> Happy birthday Republic of China.
|> 
|> I love ROC. I also love Taiwan.
|> 
|>          +++++       +++++
|>          +   +       +   +
|>     ++++++   +++++++++   ++++++
|>     +                         +
|>     ++++++   +++++++++   ++++++
|>          +   +       +   +
|>          +++++       +++++
|> 
|>  K. H. Hwang

Wish I can get a day off like those guys get in taiwan.
Wait... Double tenth this year is saturday, I do get a day off.
Never mind.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:14448 soc.culture.china:28016
From: yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Oct. 1 or Oct. 10, which is the more important day for China?
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:12:19 GMT
Reply-To: yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA, USA

In article <1992Oct15.233438.396@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>,
philliao@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Hsin-Chao Phil Liao) writes:

|> There is no official language in the USA.  Defining an official 
|> language is a violation of the first amendment - the freedom of speech.

I am not sure about the first amendment thing. But in california
(may be other states too), there were numerous attempts to establish
an official language. There were laws restricting how much foreign
alphabets one can use on the board of stores. Many chinese grocery
stores were fined because they had mostly chinese on the board.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:14487 soc.culture.china:28087
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: _Economist_ Survey of Taiwan (and other articles)
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:12:45 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

For your information,

This week's issue of the _Economist_ (the issue with Deng Xiao Ping's
picture on the cover) has an interesting survey on Taiwan as well as
an analysis of the Party Convention that is going on in Beijing now.
From: news@walter.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Thoughts after Minister Wang requested for resignation
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:28:27 GMT
Reply-To: jchen@wind.UUCP (Jason Chen)
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown, NJ

The movement to expell the Finance Minister is extremely unique.

I have never seen KMT and DDP legislators work in such an agreement
on anything. There were no backroom negotiations, no name callings. 
They are all united behind the removal of Wang.

I don't recall that anybody has ever angered so many people in
both the local parliaments and central congress. The city councils of
Taipei and Gao-hsung, and the parliament of Taiwan Province all passed
resolutions to condemn Wang. The Legislative Yuan also echoed and
was ready to make a similar proposition.

I can't remember any President has so shamelessly, and openly abandoned
the principle of social justice in the excuse of technicality.

Finally, I have never seen such a massive betrayal of people by the
representatives they elected in the Taiwanese politics. It is sad to
see our democracy movement in the past decade, only evolved to a moneycarcy 
system.


C. Jason Chen 
jchen@wind.bellcore.com
From: stanley@nttgoso.ntt.jp (Stanley Hsieh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: WHO KNOWS ABOUT RECENT TAIWAN POP CHART ?
Date: 13 Oct 92 03:56:53 GMT
Organization: NTT Communication Switching Laboratories, Tokyo, Japan
Originator: stanley@nttgoso

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Hi, all Taiwan fellows on the net,

A friend of mine is taking a short trip back to Taiwan this weekend, she
promised to buy some CDs for me, if I know what I want.

I have kept up with the pop chart "Golden song dragon tiger chart"
(Gin1 Chu3 Lone2 Hu3 Bond3) until early August, the 4th week Autumn
chart.  Then I don't know what happened from there.

Here is a request for all SCT netters, especially those in Taiwan, LA, San
Francisco, NY, Toronto, etc, where weekly Taiwan pop chart is available
thru local newspaper/magazine:  

Can you post the most recent chart on SCT ? (Pin Yin will do), so I, as well
as all other interested can benefit from this info.

If you don't have time, but do have some info on hand, can you please
briefly tell me what's on top of chart, what has been long lasting,
what is climbing fast, what interesting album/artists appeared, and
what might be good but not yet on the chart (this info is available from
the nominee song chart).

Or, if you will, give me some suggestion on what are the "must hear"s and 
the "must buy"s or the "worth buying"s in recent Taiwan pop industry.
(for past 2 and half months or so)

Thanks very much, and if any of you can come up with something by Thursday
(10-15) night I will much appreciate it.

:Stan
===============================================================================
           Stanley Hsieh              stanley@nttgoso.ntt.jp

       |   / __   __/ __   __/        Photonic Switching Systems Research Group
    /  |  /      /        /           Transport Network Systems Laboratory
___/  ___/   ___/     ___/            NTT Communication Switching Laboratories
                 
            3-9-11, Midori-cho, Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180, Japan
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong
From: tao@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Eric Yihching Tao)
Subject: Re: Thoughts after Minister Wang requested for resignation
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 10 Oct 92 11:00:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.140341.21433@cbfsb.cb.att.com> ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu) writes:
[Lines deleted]
>	probably increase tax income to the government that she may
>	not increase your property tax for the next 30 years (or you
>	get your tax reduced; hey, we can dream :-) And we should also
>	mention the artifically high consumer goods jacked up by the
>	real estate's price.
>
>	If you invest land to make money, you should pay fair tax on the
>	profit like any other business.
>
>
Several thoughs to share with you guys:

1. The issue here is *not* increasing tax, just to make it fair.

There is no implication in the issue that the total amount of tax will be
increased, some will pay more, especially those who own big chucks of land.
Others will likely pay less.

2. The point argued as it should be, is *not* which side is ideal, but which
is feasible.

Obviously to tax by the actual tracsation price is more reasonable and fair,
however, could it be enforce without much difficulties is the big question.

I read some articles both on Chinese newspaper and here in the net, no clear
information about how Mr. Wang is going to enforce his plan. He did memtion
that technicality is not a problem without reveling the detail. Anybody can
enlighen me on this?

My own opinion is, as ROC grows to be a true democratic country and economic
powerhouse, she has to go for the actual price based taxing system sooner or
later, if we loose the oppertunity this time, it will be postponed for decades,
hence, take the challenge and do it now.

Eric
 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu)
Subject: Re: Thoughts after Minister Wang requested for resignation
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 12:49:08 GMT

In article <10OCT199221151243@oregon.uoregon.edu> kuolin@oregon.uoregon.edu (Yeong-Kuo Lin) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.214039.19882@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu) writes...
>>>>	(....delete) 
>>	I have a hard time understanding why they are "victims"; they
>>	make profits out of selling their land, aren't they?
>In Chinese (or Taiwanness) tradition. land (property) is very important.
>A person have no root, without the land  <---( very bad English translation)
>If high tax is proceed on property, this tradition will be destroy.

	Despite of "high" property tax in US, it does not destory Chinese
	who live in this land of their tradition of "owning" a land.
	BTW, the tradition seems to be universal and not just for Chinese.


>So, the problem is complicated. I believe that, the high tax policy, will
>be rejected, if the policy is decide by vote fron the public.

	That may be true providing most people may not understand that
	they have beening paying much higher "property tax" (in names
	of "housing prices", "inflation", and jacked consumer goods).
	For example, my wife voiced the same view a few weeks ago, but then
	I calculated what individual people is paying for "property tax" now,
	she agreed.
	

Yung-Kao Hsu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: bbs.lar@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Larry Greenfield)
Subject: Happy Double-10 Day!
Organization: The TSoft BBS and Public Access Unix, +1 415 969 8238
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 07:08:47 GMT

  I'd just like to take a moment to wish all those in the ROC a
  Happy Double-10 Day!
  
  So, can anyone tell me, did anything exciting happen for 10 October 
  year?  I'm always curious, because besides having close ties to Taiwan, 
  October 10th is also my birthda, and after all, what other country has 
  parades on my birthday?  ;-)
:::::Larry:::::

--
Larry Greenfield (bbs.lar@tsoft.sf-bay.org)
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: [song/kanto] "campus folk"/"lerneja civilkanto"
Date: 12 Oct 92 09:16:06 -0600
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <1992Oct9.130737.17820@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu) writes:
>>
>>	** The "W $ C" music has special group of listener whereas the
>>           Campus folk songs has not or has very few. 
> 
> 	What so "special" about the group of listeners other than they
> 	like that type of music? Some Japanese like that, and nowaday,
> 	Grath Brook even become the most popular artist in the U.S.

	** Of course all kinds of people listen to country music. But
	   As the name suggested, it is originated and is firmly supported
	   by "country" people. 

	   Is the "campus music" still supported by students? I think 
	   it may still be.

>>	   Nevertheless, the Campus Folk Songs are different. I think in
>>	   the long run, they will be preserved.
> 
> 	You mean, "preserved" in a musuem :-)
> 	Yes, they will be there, except they will have no impact to
> 	the musical world if they maintain the style and no substances.

	** That is all I was saying. As long as it is there, somebody
	   will listen to it. 

	   What do you mean by "no substances"? The style IS the substance. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: How to give birth to a son?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 17:04:33 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.193136.29441@acuson.com> mao@acuson.com (Ken Mao) writes:
>ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
>
>>In article <2329@cix.cict.fr>, wu@uranus.cerfacs.fr (Wangnan Wu) writes:
>>> I'm just thirty-two years old and I had five daughters. I am
>>> eager for method to give birth to a son! Do you know any method?
>
>   I thing having your wife reach orgasm helps too.  This will create
>   an environment for the Y-sperms to swim faster.

Nah.  If he thinks that women are as worthless as he appears to do, then they
are not worthy of having orgasms.  After all, the man's pleasure should be the
most important thing.
From: BARON@dorm.rutgers.edu (JASON JEN)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Anyone using this news group?
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:43:08 GMT
Organization: Rutgers College, Rutgers University


	Hi, if there are people using this news group please give me a 
reply.  I just want to know what kind news group it is.  Is this group only 
for people who came from Taiwan??????  Someone in this news group please 
provide me some answer since I haven't seen any news post on this group!

						Jason Jen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: pchang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Pei-Yuan Chang)
Subject: Re: How to give birth to a son? -- No way!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:44:21 GMT

I have seen you honeies talking about this topic for a very lont time.  Why? I
really don't understand.  If you don't wanna have so many girls, stop fucking
your wife or wear condoms!  If you really wanna get a son, go to the hospital
and have an exam!  You know, it's you men's problem, honey!

So what else you men are talking about?  Equal?  Different?  Gee!  Women and
men will never ever be equal!  The only thing we have to know is learning how
to respect each other.  Look at this topic, you guys,  what do you think women
are?  Machines for "entertaining" you men and making a baby?  What century are
we now?

Go call me a feminist, I love that word!

--Christine
From: ay24+@andrew.cmu.edu (Adrian Yiu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Plane tickets
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:53:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.0eov39a00iV0A840tj
Organization: Freshman, H&SS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

For people who were confused about the cheap ticket posted on the 3rd of oct.,
I apologize because the flights were only available from New York.
However if you call Larry again, he would offer you good fares on the
ticket.  I hope this would help budget your travel expenses. Once again
I'm sorry for not giving you guys the full detail of the situation.
His phone #1-800-541-8442

Adrian.