HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ludwigj@CS.ColoState.EDU (Vilkata (Joe Ludwig))
Subject: Re: Commercial MUD - Continued
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 00:07:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Thealir Construction Company
Keywords: commercial mud

In article <BvtGoz.9wG@NetConnect.NET> gmaples@NetConnect.NET (Greg Maples) writes:
>	1: Continuous, not 'room to room' movement
>	2: Combat and skills totally divorced from the D&D assumptions
>           that normal muds are based on.
>	3: Implementation of a single, coherent campaign world - all new
>	4: Game design by professional game designers from game companies
>	Meet an NPC character? Talk to them, get news from around their
>home areas, ask them questions, convince them to follow you, etc.  You
>might also observe that each of them has a DISTINCT personality.  This
>includes background people like farmers and peasants.

It sounds as though you're working on exactly what "we" are in our current
vaporware-from-hell project.
The biggest improvement of all this are the multi-faceted NPCs.

>
>	Is it really so much to ask the the users of this system
>pay for the priviledge?  If you're going to pay for access, then
>is $1.25 to $2.00 per hour too much to ask?
I would prefer to pay a flat monthly rate for this sort of a game.  (Plus 
hourly access fees only for network charges, and not for game time.)  The
machine running the game and the local network would have to be quick enough
to handle hundreds of users without lag, 'cuz if I'm paying any appreciable 
amount for the game, I don't want to have to wait after every command.

Just a few of my opinions on the subject.

-- 
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| Vilkata, the Dark King      | "I don't care so much who's watchin' over |
| ludwigj@cs.colostate.edu    |  me, angel or devil, just so long as its  |
| Vilkata@Most MUCKs          |  someone with influence."                 |
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: biswick@ms.uky.edu (Chad Hall)
Subject: Re: New MUD Idea
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:28:12 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

A4EL <A4EL@UNB.CA> writes:

>You know what'd be a good idea for a MUD! Superheroes!

[.,$d]

Isn't that was Hero mud was all about? I was never on it, but I thought
that's what the whole premise of it was...you got to be a superhero.

Biswick.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: sichen@bode.uwaterloo.ca (Simon Chen)
Subject: Re: New MUD Idea
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:51:56 GMT

In article <Bvqq8n.I1q@ais.org> ssj@ais.org (Stephen S. Johnston) writes:
>In article <06OCT92.21534093.0076@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> A4EL <A4EL@UNB.CA> writes:
>>You know what'd be a good idea for a MUD! Superheroes!
>>
>Yeah, but most of them were implemented in HeroMud.  :) 
>--
So, is HeroMud up yet ?  If so, can you post the address and node please.. 8)

Masque
From: jacob@fy.chalmers.se (Jacob Hallen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Stop this foolish flamewar (was Gamedriver survey)
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:42:17 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Physics Departement, Gothenburg

In article <PETRI.VIRKKULA.92Oct13215242@lesti.hut.fi> Petri.Virkkula@hut.fi (Petri Virkkula) writes:
>
>As we have now heard many opinions about Amylaar's driver, CDDriver
>and MudOS (*) I think it is time for everyone stop this foolish flamewar.

I disagree. First of all, it isn't a foolish flamewar. It is a serious
discussion with a touch of flame sprinkled in. I find the things
people say here very useful.

>And what is readable code? I say that readable code is what the reader
>is used to read, eg. I am used to read Lars's code so I consider it
>as the most readable code I have seen. Somebody else may have learned
>to read Amylaar's code and he can think it is the most readable code.

Are you saying that one piece of code can't be objectively more
readable than an other? I would like to contest that, since there have
been several scientific experiments measuring readability of code. The
things we teach programming classes in CS are based on someones random
thoughts.

>IMHO it isn't anymore possible to compare all those gamedrivers.

I don't agree with this. The likenesses between the drivers are still
much greater than the diffrences. It's still Lars code that implements
most of the functionality. Also, you can still convert from one driver
to the other with two to three days of work.

>CDDriver is too much CDLib specific

This is hogwash. You can convert a vanilla 2.4.5 mudlib to run
CDDriver in a rather short time. Kingdoms was running with CDDriver
the same evening as we started the conversion. It then took about a
week to put in proper security and fix the quirks that popped up.

What we have done with our driver is in fact to make it less mud
specific than any other GD out there. (Apart from a yet unpublished
one. Things like light and weight as well as some very peculiar efuns
are gone from the gamedriver. They belong in the mudlib if you want
your GD to be a general tool.

I disagree about your unification wishes too. The present situation
promotes new ideas. What I'm really missing is people with truly
radical ideas. 
There is way too much sickening conformism in the LPMud society. There
used to be 50 copies of Genesis out in the world. Many of them are
still active, but fortunately they are no longer copies of Genesis.

>Those were my opinions to this flamewar. Feel free to disagree.

And these opinions were sponsored by

Jacob Hallen
From: square@cco.caltech.edu (Hung Fai Fong)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: MATH.C
Date: 8 Oct 1992 18:47:26 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

In article <8eonK6C00WB3ED11Qr@andrew.cmu.edu> "Michael L. Yacht" <my3k+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>All i can say, is that whomever made the drivers for this 3.1.2 REALLY
>neglected some important things.  especially simple math funtions,
>like POWER(), SQRT(), SIN() COS(), I think it REALLY needs to be added
>in.  ESPECIALLY SQRT().  If anyone has a nice hack, that i could use,
>to get a SQRT() or some reasonable facismile thereof.  
Once I've written in LPC functions of sqrt, sin, cos, tan, arcsin,arccos,
atan and atan2 by combining lookup table and some simple algorithm, but
they all return integers-- sin,cos, etc return the correct value times 1000--
which is OK for most practical uses in lpmud. (don't tell me you want
to use taylor series expansion of sin and cos ;) the code is simple and
ugly, and I'm not gonna post it unless many ask for it. (Michael, hope
you can find it useful)
Although there are times I do need trigo-functions and such for my LPC
programs, I'm not that crazy for float point operation done in driver,
mainly by the reason that it's a waste of resources (my LPC trig functions
provide only 3 significant figures, which I think is more than enough for
most purposes, unless you want to write a arbitrary-digits-mathematica-like
program in LPC)


-- 
Hung Fai Fong - a struggling physics major
From: starfish@stein.u.washington.edu (Sarah Skovronsky)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: FAQ?
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:55:26 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

Is there a FAQ for MUDs?  (Am I even posting this in the right newsgroup?)
Feel free to email if you don't want to post replies.

Sarah Skovronsky
starfish@u.washington.edu
From: ak853@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Blade)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: site..
Date: 15 Oct 1992 18:56:56 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ak853@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Blade)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


  Looking for site that can handle at least one mud, preferably two. :)
  The first is known as Blood Bath (although not many know it as that)
(if the Original Blood Bath ever gets a site, I will happily change it's
name.  The original was just an idea, although I was told it had a site,
and did much programming for it.  But either the admin stole my code and
I never heard of it again, or it just didn't happen)...  
  It is a player-kill type mud, similar to Genocide, but actually very
different.   I currently have a site to DEVELOP Blood Bath on, but my
local administrators will not allow me to open the mud, or for that
matter, leave it up for longer than the time I am phyiscally logged into
an dusing the machine.
 
   The second mud, dubbed MagicMud III (due to one very failed attempt
by myself, and one Mud which I ran at my home, under non-LP software)..
is a "normal" lp-mud, with a lot of different ideas attached.  I do not
even have a development site for this mud, and one would be much
appreciated.
   Both mudlibs are currently in COMPAT_MODE.  However, if I were to
have the time, disk space, and memory, I would like to eventually conver
t them both to MudOS 0.9 when it is finally released.
  (email me if you think you can help. Thanks!!)

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp,rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.diku,rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: stas@netcom.com (Stanislav Malyshev)
Subject: Re: Commercial MUD - Continued
Keywords: commercial mud
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 10:47:13 GMT

In article <Bw3pyw.Mqn@NetConnect.NET> gmaples@NetConnect.NET (Greg Maples) writes:
>Hmmm... well, we do not intend to implement a complete NL parser,
>just a reasonably friendly ATN grammar. Ref - T. Winograd's work
>over the last several years.
>
>As to NPC smarts issues, we've implied and talked about personality
>issues, look at games like Pendragon from the Chaosium.  THose factors,
>plus some localized knowledge to object classes will allow VERY simple
>conversation, vis: ask farmer 'where is town Foobar'  Reply: ' 50 miles west'
>

Hmm.. I dont know what Winograd has been doing since his transformational
grammar stuff... but anyhow..

I get the impression that you have an understanding of how things work
and of what is required.  It seems that technologies you mentioned will
greatly improve on the state-of-the-mud, but they won't be novelties from
the AI standpoint.  (though clever simulation-related hacks will surely have
been found, etc..)   You'd have a nice simulation as opposed to a static
"re-popping" world, and greater functionality such as limited NL parsing
(and I somewhat intelligent agents?)

As far as ATN's go..  what mechanism were you thinking of using for getting
conditions that will determine the behavior of the parse?  Any "semanticky"
stuff or straight grammar?


Stan
-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stan Malyshev		|    Open up the windows and let the fresh air out,
stas@soda.berkeley.edu	|    said the television to the shackled children..
stas@netcom.com		|		- King Missile
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.lp:3588 rec.games.mud:9026 rec.games.mud.diku:622 rec.games.mud.admin:532 rec.games.mud.tiny:439
From: amolitor@nmsu.edu (Andrew Molitor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp,rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.diku,rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Re: Commercial MUD - Continued
Keywords: commercial mud
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:29:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: New Mexico State University

In article <BvtGoz.9wG@NetConnect.NET> gmaples@NetConnect.NET (Greg Maples) writes:
>
> [huge list of feeturz]

	Sounds nice. Either you have NO idea how hard it is to code this
sort of thing up, or you're a whole lot better than anyone I've ever met.
A couple programmers spending a couple years ain't gonna touch it, since
it sure sounds like a few of the things you're doing are unsolved problems.

	Andrew

>Greg Maples
>gmaples@NChost.NetConnect.NET
>-
>These opinions are mine, all mine...
>-
From: pariah@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Michael Malone)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: LP for Linux ?
Date: 16 Oct 1992 09:32:45 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au


The most recent release of linux contains the arpa domain
sockets. I just ftp'd in telnet, compiled it, and compiled
the mud with next to no mods. The ACCESS_RESTRICTED define
had to be removed, and a couple of other minor things to
watch (eg replace E_WOULDBLOCK with E_AGAIN). If you get
that far, and run out of memory (or inodes) mail me.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp,alt.mud.lp
From: stigh@edb.tih.no (Stig Husby,o91a)
Subject: HELP!  Player.c file wanted..
Reply-To: stigh@edb.tih.no
Organization: T I H / T I S I P
Posting-Front-End: Winix Conference v 92.05.15  1.20 (running under MS-Windows)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 10:46:26 GMT

Howdy!

I'm programming on an lpMUD , suddenly I found a few errors in the 
PLAYER.C file. (The one I have is the original 2.4.5 file )

It concern the shout routine.
Someone has started to program a routine wich makes it possible to
use the earmuffs (I think) but the routine isn't completed...
The routine use a function called filter_objects() ,but the
function is not implemented.

So if anyone have this file with a working shout routine(with the 
use of earmuffs etc.) then please send it to me.



I'm also looking for a SOUL.C file with more feeling commands than the 
original 2.4.5 file. 

Thanx in advance!

 Stig Husby!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Better than reasons,        | E-mail:           | Mail:  Stig Husby
Better than lies,           |                   |        Kongleveien 9
The only truth I know,      | stigh@edb.tih.no  |        7058 Jakobsli
Is the look in your eyes... |                   |           NORWAY
                            | Voice:            |
      "MINISTRY"            | + 47 + 07 914903  |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: amylaar@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (J"orn Rennecke)
Subject: Re: The mysteries of switch unraveled (unrot-13ed)
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:27:58 GMT

gusar@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Sean A Reith) writes:

[lots of comments deleted, that will be totally inappropriate to the final
version anyway...]
>/*
> * To make the copies clearer...
> * (And still handle machines that don't like non-word boundary word accesses)
> */
>#define COPY_SHORT(DST, SRC) bcopy((char *)(SRC), (char *)(DST), 2)
>#define COPY_LONG(DST, SRC) bcopy((char *)(SRC), (char *)(DST), 4)

Yes, this is a good example how readability is traded in for performance.
The actual amount of performance loss will vary with machine and compiler, but
you will get some at any rate. Moreover, you define an interface that takes
a pointer to a variable, which makes some additional optimazations impossible
lest you throw away the COPY_XXX first. Which is recommended anyway for
COPY_SHORT, because it won't work properly on some machines.

	Amylaar
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: mmcg@cs.monash.edu.au (Mike  Mc Gaughey)
Subject: Re: The mysteries of switch unraveled (Was: Re: Coding style)
Organization: Computer Science, Monash University, Australia
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:05:16 GMT

behrends@arctecws-12.dfki.uni-kl.de (Karl Reimer Behrends) writes:

>Concerning Amylaar's code, it isn't that hard to read,
>actually. Took me less than half an hour to analyze switch. Any experienced
>programmer should be able to perform this feat without difficulties.

Half an hour?  A well written algorithm would have taken you half a minute :)

BTW: Has anyone noticed the strong similarities between "My coding style
is better than yours" and "My Amiga is better than your Macintosh"? ;)

Mike.
--
Mike McGaughey			AARNET:	mmcg@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au

"Head stompin', ass kickin', finger licking nastiness"
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: kruegewa@cda.mrs.umn.edu (Puffin)
Subject: Re: MATH.C
Keywords: integer representations in C
Organization: University of Minnesota - Morris
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:06:34 GMT

"Michael L. Yacht" writes:
>All i can say, is that whomever made the drivers for this 3.1.2 REALLY
>neglected some important things.  especially simple math funtions,
>like POWER(), SQRT(), SIN() COS(), I think it REALLY needs to be added
>in.  ESPECIALLY SQRT().  If anyone has a nice hack, that i could use,
>to get a SQRT() or some reasonable facismile thereof.  ALSO, what is
>the largest number I can stick into an int?  Is it the 32xxx number?
>If so, how can I get a numbertype that is larger?

The largest number you can put into an int type variable should depend on the  
sizeof(int) used in the compiler that generated the mud object code, and I  
think this might be specified by the language.  Unfortunately my C bible is not  
by my side, as it should.  Anyone else?
--
   W. Alan "Puffin" Krueger  |    Professional/Perpetual Friend-At-Large
  Univ of Minnesota, Morris  |              Master Of Puffins
KRUEGEWA  @  CAB.MRS.UMN.EDU |    "Don't look at me, I just live here!"
ALAN  @ NXSCI173.MRS.UMN.EDU | Listen to the U~90 Alternative!  KUMM 89.7 fm
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: James Adams <adams.j@applelink.apple.com>
Subject: VALHALLA is back!!!
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:29:43 GMT
X-Xxdate: Wed, 7 Oct 92 12:33:23 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer France


This is just to let you all know that after its search for a new home
Vahalla is back up:

128.61.15.28 2444

jablab.gatech.edu 2444

come and visit, maybe stay a while.
From: jacob@fy.chalmers.se (Jacob Hallen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Amylaar's fixes (was Re: Gamedriver survey [LONG])
Date: 16 Oct 92 23:45:42 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Physics Departement, Gothenburg

In article <1992Oct15.160443.1303@mcshh.Hanse.DE> amylaar@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Joern Rennecke) writes:
>If i were to make done entries as verbose as the mudos ones, i'd only have
>half the time to write code/correct bugs, and the done file would become quite
>unwieldy.

How about doing done entries to the extent that Lars did them. My
experience of his done logs is that they are sharp and to the point
without being so terse that they are useless.
But this may perhaps be too large a price for gaining larger
acceptance.

>When i wrote the 'done' entry, this bug had already been known for more than a
>year. At least by lars and marion....

You aren't writing the done log for Lars and Marion. You are (or at
least should be) writing it for the people who are using your
gamedriver. They need to know about the specifics of the bugs in order
to know why something went wrong, something stopped going wrong and in
general know what's going on with their driver.

>>the bug in question discussed elsewhere).  And "corrected throw(0)" looks
>>innocuous enough... how to know that it corrects a crasher? (the same with
>
>Those who have experienced crashed by throw(0) in their mud will probably
>have noticed it. And so, will have understood the log message.
>If there aren't any crashs in a particular mud, it is probably of lesser
>interest.

Do you really care about your users? Or do you just care about the fun
you get out of gamedriver hacking? Is documentation too much of a
bother for you?

Jacob Hallen
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: lusty@lusty.tamu.edu (Lusty Wench)
Subject: Re: LustyMUD?
Organization: Me
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 02:36:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.174334.1@woods.ulowell.edu> kaczorc@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
>Any news on the re-return of LustyMUD?  I know it was up for a few hours
>awhile back...and then it went down again.  Any idea on why they cut the
>network again?  I'm impatiently waiting and suffering withdrawal. =)
>
>				Zor


Yes, access was restored for a short while.  It appeared that the campus
network administrators were specifically allowing connection to the two
muds on campus, as normal telnet connections to the same machines were
still disabled, while connections to the mud ports were possible.  There
was, however, no official statement by the university, nor has there 
been any statement since that time.  In short, we still know nothing.
Sorry.

Lusty
From: gusar@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Sean A Reith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: MATH.C
Date: 15 Oct 1992 00:44:50 +0800
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
Keywords: integer representations in C

kruegewa@cda.mrs.umn.edu (Puffin) writes:

>"Michael L. Yacht" writes:
>>All i can say, is that whomever made the drivers for this 3.1.2 REALLY
>>neglected some important things.  especially simple math funtions,
>>like POWER(), SQRT(), SIN() COS(), I think it REALLY needs to be added
>>in.  ESPECIALLY SQRT().  If anyone has a nice hack, that i could use,
>>to get a SQRT() or some reasonable facismile thereof.  ALSO, what is
>>the largest number I can stick into an int?  Is it the 32xxx number?
>>If so, how can I get a numbertype that is larger?

>The largest number you can put into an int type variable should depend on the  
>sizeof(int) used in the compiler that generated the mud object code, and I  
>think this might be specified by the language.  Unfortunately my C bible is not  
>by my side, as it should.  Anyone else?

The only thing guaranteed about [the size of] C ints is that
sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long)

Though from memory, LPMUD assumes that ints are [at least] 32bit,
so you can pretty much rely on the fact that LPC ints are 32bit
(PC port may be an exception, I have never looked at it...).

As for the holy (the arguments for are very holey IMHO) war for floats
in LPC, suffice it to say, I think they are unnecessary.

Enjoy, be free,
Sean.
-- 
Sean A Reith                         | gusar@uniwa.uwa.edu.au
C programmer and net.addict at large | sean@gu.uwa.edu.au
Obquote:                             | reith_s@kultarr.cs.uwa.edu.au
 "I have a cunning Plan" - Baldrick  | sean@his.own.really.fast.machine (RSN)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: jagrizza@uncc.edu (James A Grizzard)
Subject: lpmud...
Reply-To: jagrizza@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 22:25:49 GMT

where can I ftp lpmud drivers from???

tnx



Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: jfine@engin.umich.edu (Jonathan Fine)
Subject: Re: New MUD Idea (and Hero II LPmud - need site)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 14:55:50 EDT
Organization: The Church of Suicidal
Keywords: hero, hero2

In article <06OCT92.21534093.0076@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> A4EL <A4EL@UNB.CA> writes:

>You know what'd be a good idea for a MUD! Superheroes!
 [ Lots of ideas deleted ]


As many people have already mentioned, there was the old 2.4.5 Hero LPmud,
which closed September 21, 1991.  Since then, Hero II LPmud has been in the
making.  We were within weeks of opening, until our current site was 
recently taken off the internet.  (We don't know if this is temporary or
permanent yet.)

So anyways, at this time we are looking for a new site.  Even if our old
site were returned to us, we would still prefer a new site because the old
site was rather unreliable for various reasons.  If you have any information
as to a site that could be used, please notify me at the email below.

Hero II is a completely native 3.x LPmud and is currently running the 3.1.2
driver, although if we had a new site, we would likely switch to MudOS.
(When Hero II began, Warhammer 2 hadn't opened yet, let alone TMI.)

The game itself is a stat/skill-based system, as found in almost all
3.x LPMuds these days.  Players can discover (or even accidentally gain :)
new powers as they explore the world.  The current starting city is
Gotham, although reminiscent Hero I players fear not: Metadelphia will
return.  (For those who didn't know, Metadelphia was a complete knock-off of
the University of Michigan campus. :)  The cities of Metropolis and The City
are also planned, among a few others.

There has been a Hero II mailing list circulating, to keep people
updated as to how Hero II is coming along and when it will open.
If you have site information or would like to join the mailing list,
please contact me at the email address below.  Thanks.  :)


// Shadowjack


[1m[34m
----------
Jonathan H. Fine                   The University of Michigan,
sinister.stairs@um.cc.umich.edu    Ann Arbor  "Let's Go Blue!"

[0m
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp