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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 09:39:00 CST
From:         "dr. Daniel Edward Taylor" <AUTENRKL@SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: song lyrics

> "Once to be called chosen, you had to be a Jew
>  but since we've died in Jesus, One Bad Pig's His chosen TOO!"
> (One Bad Pig)
>
> Lonnie Schubert
> PS  That second verse of "Never Forget..." really speaks to me.

    lonnie,

    the PIG is great and writes some great, fun, and worshipful song.
    Praise God!

    Isaiah 6 has helped me to humble myself before God.

    Have you seen the C-stone vid yet?  Great fun!

-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
kevin autenrieth            U N D E R   T H E   G A Z E   O F   G O D
autenrkl@sluvca.slu.edu             dr. Daniel Edward Taylor
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
 At the foot of the Cross -- Clouds, rain, fire -- on glassHouse records
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Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:45:59 EST
From:         Julie Nott <STR008@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Bible Memorization Tip
              17 Nov 1992 03:01:47 GMT from <S096216@UMRVMA.UMR.EDU>

Awesome way to memorize scripture!!!

Julie Nott
Univ of KY
str008@ukcc.uky.edu
From: Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU (Leo W)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: SofT, Sept. 1894
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:56:37 GMT
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Quoted from "Things to Come," a monthly periodical edited in the very late 19th
and early 20th centuries by E.W. Bullinger:

THE WATER SUPPLY AT JERUSALEM.

The special correspondent of The Standard telegraphs from Vienna, Tuesday,
August 21st, "The Turkish Ministry of Public Works has determined upon the
reconstruction of the ancient water conduits of Jerusalem, dating from the age
of King Solomon.  By this means it would be possible to convey two thousand
five hundred cubic metres of water daily to the Holy City.  Of this it is
proposed to give one thousand metres away free of charge to the poor of
Jerusalem, the distribution to take place at the Mosque of Omar, the Holy
Sepulchre, and other places frequented by pilgrims."  These aqueducts will
bring the water to the city from the fountains of Arroul.  A tunnel is to be
built 3750 metres long, and is to cost 80,000 pounds.  The aqueduct was still
in working order in the time of Christ.

THE APPLAUSE OF CHRISTIAN TEACHERS.

The Downward Grade is seen yet further in the growing habits of irreverence in
connection with the "Pleasant Sunday afternoon" movement.  The British Weekly
for August 9 praises the "brief, bright, brotherly service" in a well-known
chapel in South London, where an audience of some 500 men "applaud freely in
good English fashion."  Dr. Bradford may well say that "no church is showing
itself more in touch with the times"!

Yes, it is all "in touch with the times" -- very much in touch; for the times
are "perilous times," and these things are a sign of them in fact.

The "fashion" in Paul's day was to beat the preacher with stripes; in Luther's
day to burn him.  But these are days of Religious Picnics and Spiritual Spas at
home and abroad, and stripes and stakes would be incongruous.  Formerly Satan's
plan was to prove to the world that the gospel was an enemy -- there was too
much in it; today he says it is only a bugbear after all -- nothing in it,
nothing at all, you can take hold of it with your hand.  He has no objection to
any gospel preaching or teaching, however correct according to the letter of
Scripture, where the work of the Holy Spirit is ignored, and carnality is thus
openly manifested by the assembly.  Not a soul was ever saved, not a believer
ever built up in the faith without the operation of God.  Salvation and
sanctification of walk are not to be sought for in an irreverence and a
familiarity that do but betray unconsciousness of the holiness of His presence.
 It is precisely when redemption is first treated of in Scripture that the
holiness of God is first named. (Exodus iii.5 and xv.13.)  It was the first
lesson taught to the first missionary.  Can it be that fin-de-siecle
"Christianity" has not got so far?

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo
From: Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU (Leo W)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Scripturette 11/18
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:53:54 GMT
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"If anyone belongs to Christ, then he is made new.  The old things have gone;
everything is made new!  All this is from God.  Through Christ, God made peace
between us and himself.  And God gave us the work of bringing everyone into
peace with him.  I mean that God was in Christ, making peace between the world
and himself.  In Christ, God did not hold the world guilty of its sins.  And he
gave us this message of peace" (2 Corinthians 5:17-19).

"Jesus gave himself to pay for the sins of all people.  Jesus is proof that God
wants all people to be saved.  And that proof came at the right time.  That is
why I was chosen to tell the Good News and was chosen to be an apostle.  (I am
telling the truth.  I am not lying.)  I was chosen to teach the non-Jewish
people to believe and to know the truth" (1 Timothy 2:6,7).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:51:00 -0400
From:         STYLESBG@WATT.CCS.TUNS.CA
Subject:      Re: Disallowed thanks.

It was hard to understand your post,  Dan.
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Via:      UK.AC.SOLENT; 23 NOV 92 17:03:55 GMT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:04:00 GMT
From:         CAROL L <Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Being gay is offensive?

From:        JLong <JLONG@EARN.UA1VM>


> Once again people, I am not trying to offend anyone.  I was simply stating
> what God has already said.  I still love everyone including gay people. I
> still do not like the sin or act or whatever you want to call it.  I will
> and I do tell people of God's love.  I'm not trying to judge either.  And
> if I was doing something wrong and someone told me with proof that I was
> doing wrong.  No I would not be upset or mad.  Infact  I would be grateful
> and would say that the Lord sent someone to tell me to do better.

Janie,

A few months ago this subject got CHRISTIA in a situation that our listowners
extracted us from beautifully.

At that time we went round in a circle like this.

I think the hinge factor is that we all have different ways of seeing what
the Bible means and what may seem as a direct statement to you may not be
read like that by someone else.

At that time, no-one produced a Bible passage that could not be read in a
different but equally valid way by someone else to mean something else.
There was not convincing arguement that being gay was intrinsically sinful.

You attest homosexuallity to be a sin, others believe it a God given part
of themselves.  If you keep that in mind, you cannot condemn the being gay
without condemning the person.  Homosexuallity is not an added extra to gay
people, it is a very basic part of their makeup/personality/being, whatever
you call it.  Much the same way as being male/female, left/right handed, tall
or short.

I was brought up in a family where some older members had the superstition
that a left-handed person was evil.  Simple country clap trap it may have
been but I know the damage that was done because of a strong conviction for
the "right."   Telling someone that being what they know themselves to be
is "sinful" can produce a lot of nasty side affects pychologically. How much
damage can we do ?

Have a care, that those who are different to you may be just and only that.

Carol A Long,  Southampton Institute of Higher Education, England
        email     :  Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
DISCLAIMER - merely musings unless otherwise stated.
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Via:      UK.AC.SOLENT; 16 NOV 92 12:12:51 GMT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 12:13:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      RE: Quo vadis ? #10

From:     Lubosh <Lubosh.Hanuska@AU.EDU.ANU>
Subject:  Quo vadis ? #10
> This was very much like in Slovakia, except the New Year's
> Eve mass, when after the priest's words "Let us give each other a sign of
> peace" all the Polish people walked around the whole church, and embraced
> virtually EVERYONE !!!

This has been known to happen in England too !  You wouldn't think it
possible in a nation that hardly shakes hands these days !!!
Still, the idea is we greet each other as brothers and sisters in christ
and if you can't hug family .....

> I believe she will get the reward from God for taking the narrow and steep
> path to His Kingdom...

I hope so.  I'd pray that God gives her some joy in her life and an
understanding that all things if used to the glory of God are not sinful.
I would also pray for "her young man" that by her behaviour, he
doesn't give up on Christ and for those arround her that she doesn't
trample their faith and joy in the life God gave us.


Lubosh, I love the quote - provided it isn't a last resort.

+ !           "If prayer does not help, nothing else will."     M.Gandhi

I enjoy your accounts of your travels. Thanks.

Carol A Long,  Southampton Institute of Higher Education, England
        email     :  Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
DISCLAIMER - merely musings unless otherwise stated.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:56:27 MST
From:         Madge McBurney <ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Prayer request

On Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:18:00 EST jones, mark said:

First off I want to let those who have requested prayers to know that
I am also in prayer regarding these things.  Please keep us informed.

Mark Jones writes:

>Dear Brenda and Friends,
>I am touched deeply by the prayers and prayer requests which I have been
>privileged to receive from Brothers and Sisters on Christia.

I also want to express my appreciation to those who respond to prayer
requests, (most especially to Shelby Cross, (who has been so constant)).
I am always so encouraged when I see Christia being used for this work.

I do worry sometimes about a student coming across our list (and being
excited at his find), only to discover the prevailing arguments of the
day.  As listowners, Steven and I are immediately notified when someone
subscribes to Christia, and often we see a new person subscribe/signoff
on the same day.  Whenever that happens I always say a prayer that our
list was a benefit to them in some way.  I must admit though that some-
times my prayers are motivated by the fear that the opposite could just
as easily be true.

I know that controversy over doctrine will always be around, (and it's
good when it's in the proper proportion), but we should be known mostly
for our devotions and praises to God, and for our love of one another.

Madge McBurney
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 02:13:37 EST
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Edmund the Martyr (20 Nov 870)

EDMUND OF EAST ANGLIA, KING AND MARTYR (20 NOV 870)

When the heathen Anglo-Saxons invaded Christian Britain in the
400's, they eventually established seven kingdoms: Essex, Wessex,
Sussex (East Saxons, West Saxons, and South Saxons), Mercia,
Northumbria, and East Anglia (three kingdoms of the Angles), and the
Jute kingdom of Kent. (The borders between these ancient kingdoms
are still borders between regions speaking English with different
accents today.) Under the influence of missionaries from the Celts
and from continental Europe, these peoples bcame Christian, only to
be faced themselves by a wave of heathen invaders.

Edmund was born about 840, became King of East Anglia in about 855,
and in 870 faced a horde of marauding Danes, who moved through the
countryside, burning churches and slaughtering villages wholesale.
On reaching East Anglia, their leaders confronted Edmund and offered
him peace on condition that he would rule as their vassal and forbid
the practice of the Christian faith. Edmund refused this last
condition, fought, and was captured. He was ill-treated and killed.
His burial place is the town of Bury St. Edmunds.

   O God of ineffable mercy, who didst give grace and fortitude to
   blessed Edmund the king to triumph over the enemy of his people
   by nobly dying for thy Name: Bestow on us thy servants, we
   beseech thee, the shield of faith, wherewith we may withstand
   the assaults of our ancient enemy; through Jesus Christ our
   Redeemer, who liveth and reigneth with thee and the Holy
   Spirit, one God, now and for ever.
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 08:22:18 CST
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From:         JLong <JLONG@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Effectiveness of Church Teaching (was Gospel)

I agree with that last statement Scott, " that no single church group will
get in to heaven because their doctrine".  The only doctrine I know that
will get us into heaven is the doctrine of Jesus Christ.  So it is best
for me to obey God.

Janie Long
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:44:06 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      OZZY OZBOURNE...

uh... Theodore.  One thing bugs me about your post, man.
You spelled "GOD" like "god" ...there's a BIG difference
in how you spell it, as to what it means.
"god" is pagan....;)

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 09:41:00 CST
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Counselling Advice

Thank you for the reply Mark.

Tom
From: bw462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bucky Whaley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Gays in the military
Date: 19 Nov 1992 04:34:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bw462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bucky Whaley)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, ST403077@BROWNVM.BITNET (Daniel Brabander) says:

>      between these groups of people (for example how many of the people
>      on this list who have very strong feelings on this issue have ever
>      sat down and spoken with a person who was gay).

Actually, every single one of them.  Every person on this list knows
someone who is gay... although s/he may not know that person *as* gay.
We already are your children, your parents, your siblings, your 
neighbors, your colleagues, and members of your churches.  We always 
have been.  Just as we have served in every army that ever existed on
this planet.  We *already are* in the barracks and bathrooms and showers
and messhalls and parade grounds and officers' clubs and px's.  We 
always already were in all of these places...  and. all. places. every.
where. 

 -Bucky Whaley, not lusting after anyone on this list or on land or 
                sea or air

  (flames and hate mail to /dev/null)

-- 
bw462@cleveland.freenet.edu     "That chick's messin' with our minds!"
     Mmm... lutefisk!                          - Dolph
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Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:17:27 EST
From:         Julie Nott <STR008@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gays in the military
              17 Nov 1992 20:18:04 GMT from <crawford@BEN.DEV.UPENN.EDU>

I agree with Lauren on the gays in the military.

My husband and I got into this discussion the other day.  He was in the
army so he has a different opinion on the matter.  I'm not so sure
that I agree with banning homosexuals from the military either.  I am
not a Clinton supporter either.  I don't condone homosexuality in the
least but I don't think that they should be discriminated against any
moreso than an adulterer or any other sinner.  Sin is sin to God.
Homosexuality is no worse than telling a white lie, to God.

My husband seems to think differently.  He's doesn't disagree with me
on the fact that sin is sin, but you've got to realize that these men
in the military take showers together, all go to the bathroom together,
etc. etc. etc. Why should other straight men have to be subjected to
another man looking and lusting upon their body. or vice versa for
lesbians.  I see his point.

I don't really know where I stand on this issue...but I don't think
that someone should be discriminated against in the job market for their
sexual orientation.  As long as the job gets done...

Now we call sin as it is...homosexuality is a sin, just as white lies,
cheating on your spouse, lusting, coveting...etc. etc.

Now should we kick out all the promiscuous guys in the military because
they have premarital sex???  Or ban a liar???

Someone enlighten me on their opinion.

Julie
str008@ukcc.uky.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: S096216@UMRVMA.umr.edu
Subject: Bible Memorization Tip
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:01:47 GMT
Organization: Univ of MO - Rolla

Hi, I am a new subscriber to these newsnets. I am very interested
in the CHRISTIA group.  I would like to contribute an easy way to
memorize scripture for everyone who thinks they can not do it.
The techniques was taught to me by members at church and it has really
proved to be a help when you are without your Bible.

First, pick a passage of about 10 verses in length.  READ and STUDY
the verses carefully and try to determine the way the passage is
organized. Next, get a piece of paper and write down the passage using
only the first letter of every word and all punctuation.  This "Cheat
Sheet" helps your brain to memorize the passage easier than just
doing it by brute force.  After you can say the passage from the sheet
and not looking at the Bible, try to say the passage without the sheet

You will be amazed at how fast you can memorize!

Ex. "F G S L T W T H G H O B S, T W B I H S N P B H E L." John 3:16

I was able to memorize James 4:1-10 in 90 minutes and am working on
memorizing the whole book of James.  Please remember to record the
passage in sentance and not verse form.. You want to memorize the
entire sentance, not just parts of it.  If you want, you can record the
verse marks but do not let that interfere with getting the whole
context of the passage.

If this helps anyone, please let me know!

Walter T. Stephens - Grad Student in Ceramic Engineering at
the Univeristy of Missouri-Rolla.  EMail = s096216@UMRVMA.UMR.edu
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:56:20 -0700
From:         "Glenn Radinsky S05152@doc.flc.colorado.edu"
              <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Response to Scott

Dear Scott (and others):

     Hoi Palloi is a Christian group that is based in New
Zealand.  The came here as a part of a concert one night and
rocked the house.  I think they sound a lot like U2, and if
that group ever needs a replacement guitar player, they
should know where to look.  The lead singer (who is female)
has an incredible voice that seems almost to grab hold of
the audience.

     The Stand is a group that is based out of Chicago, and
they kinda remind me of some of Bob Seger's stuff (Don't
listen to him any more, since to me all he sang about was
gettin' laid...) because they play straightforward meat-on-
the-bones rock-'n-roll.  They played at the same concert as
Hoi Palloi.  Maybe they also sound a little like ZZ Top, but
I never did listen to them.

     And lastly there is Jacob's Trouble.  Their sound is
kinda hard to classify, but they have one of the better
drummers that I have ever heard.  If I had to say anything,
I would say that they sound kinda intellectual, like Rush or
some of the later Pink Floyd.  But this is very fuzzy and
very general.  Hope all of this helps...

                            Glenn
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:58:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gays in the military

<The Bible's teaching on homosexuality is very clear.  It is a an abomination be
<fore God.  I don't think that any denominations'teaching usurp GOD's WORD!!!
<No Jesus did not condem the woman caught in adultery, but he did tell her to go
<and sin no more.  The church has to do the same thing.

What does this have to do with Gays in the military?

Dan
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:23:53 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 11/19

"A man might be guilty of a sin worthy of death.  He must be put to death and
his body displayed on a tree.  But don't leave his body hanging on the tree
overnight.  Be sure to bury him that same day.  Anyone whose body is displayed
on a tree is cursed by God.  You must not ruin the land the Lord your God is
giving you to own" (Deuteronomy 21:22,23).

"So the law put a curse on us, but Christ took away that curse.  He changed
places with us and put himself under that curse.  It is written in the
Scriptures, "Everyone whose body is displayed on a tree is cursed"" (Galatians
3:13).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
From: YA67@FERRIS.BITNET (carol nemec)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Contemporary Christian Music
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:16:44 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

We took our church youth group to see Bruce Carroll and
Wayne Watson last weekend.  These two men are very talented
and used their talent to glorify the Lord.  The concert was
very uplifting.  I would recommend their music to anyone
who is interested in contemporary Christian music.
Their testimony was encouraging.  Wayne Watson said he had
been asked if he would ever go over to secular music.  He
said he would consider it regression.  In October, my family
went to see Steven Curtis Chapman...also very talented and
strong in his faith...but a little loud for my older ears.

Just some recommendations...these performers appealed to
my 22 year old and my 14 year old.  The oldest 'borrowed'
my tapes!

CAROL NEMEC                             +
YA67@FERRIS                           +++++
FERRIS STATE UNIVERSITY                 +
BIG RAPIDS, MI 49307                    +   PHILIPPIANS 4:13
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