From: dseeman@novell.com (Daniel Seeman)
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Re: Budding Physicist
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:10:23 GMT
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, Califonia

In article <C0Iw3B.5I8@fs7.ece.cmu.edu> snyder@henry.ece.cmu.edu (John Snyder) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.235042.1388@sfu.ca> palmer@sfu.ca (Leigh Palmer) writes:
>>In article <93007.112134BAV2@psuvm.psu.edu> <BAV2@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>>You have a bright kid, howevere. It would be a shame if he will be
>>>spoiled by the rotten American education system
>>
>>I've replied by mail to the original questioner. However I could not let this
>>comment pass unchallenged. There is nothing rotten about the American
>>educational system. I came through it as did most of the correspondents in this
>>newsgroup, and I don't think we were badly served at all. I infer from your
>>syntax and name that you did not, and that you are an immigrant to the United
>>States, just as I am an immigrant to Canada. The "system" here is also not
>>rotten, and it is substantially the same as that in the US. My children came
>>through the Canadian system and they were not spoiled, either.
>>
>>The rot in this system probably resides much closer to home, among parents who
>>expect that the schools should do the full task of educating their children for
>>them. The person who asked the question originally is not such a parent, and I
>>expect his son will make out quite well, thank you.
>>
>>The questioner is from a Canadian university, by the way, in case you had not
>>noticed.
>>
>>Leigh
>
>
>I'd like to share a few thoughts on the educational system:
>
>I came through the American public educational system in the 60's and 70's
>(graduated from high school in '73), so what I say may or may not
>pertain to the system as it exists now...
>
>I had both old math and new math, old teachers and young teachers,
>"hip" teachers and "square" teachers.
>
>Some teachers would tend to turn-off kids to learning.  They practiced
>the "Shut Up, Sit-Down, and Do As I Say" method of education.  They
>discouraged inquiry about anything other than the lesson we were
>currently working on.  
>
>Others encouraged independent thought and discussion, and if a kid
>was particularly interested in or good at something, encouraged him
>to follow it up.
>
>In general, I think the new math was better for someone interested
>in math and science, but I also saw some shortcomings of it.
>
>And I don't remember any strong correlation of age or "hipness"
>with how good a teacher was.
>
>The major potential problem that I saw was the way in elementary school
>(grades 1-6), we had only one teacher per year for all subjects except
>music, art, or foreign language, and even had the same
>one for grades 1 and 2.  I think that there is a danger of a kid being
>turned-off to school for good (or turned off to some subject for good)
>with a bad teacher for a whole year or two years.  I believe in some
>schools, this has changed, so that several teachers "team-teach"
>several classes.
>
>Some of the math and science teaching, in particular, was really
>bad in elementary school.  Some was good.  My recollection was that
>in any area of science that I was particularly interested, my
>knowledge far outstripped what we were being taught in class.
>I learned from reading a lot, watching T.V., and I was also lucky
>enough to grow up in a family of scientists.
>
>So, I would say that if a kid has a particularly bad elementary school
>teacher (or particularly bad at science or math), a parent should
>make sure that the kid gets enough outside input to keep him
>interested and to learn from.  (I would point out that the parent
>need not be a scientist--there's plenty of books, T.V. documentaries,
>magazines, project sets, science museums, and national parks out there)
>
>
>
>
>John
>snyder@henry.ece.cmu.edu
>
Yes, certainly the "classroom" truly spans the world.  Also the effectiveness
of instructors in keeping young students interested and involved is of great
importance.  But to a very large degree, one cannot rely on a single institution
to provide the entire range of education one needs.  Absolutely the parents
have primary responsibility to supplement the deficiencies of any schooling.

I went to public schools (K-12 grad '83, Univ '88) and have found them to 
be in need of improvement, but certainly adequate and definately not so bad.  
The University experience was where things really accelerated and that part of
my educational process was unparalled in it's value.  To this day I find new
meaning and information in the memories of lectures and course work done there.

My strong willed mother worked like hell to keep me interested (and sometimes
things were quite difficult because of her insistance).  So, we got what we
needed. Indeed, we got what we wanted.  So give the Public Schools a break. They
are doing ok now and most certainly will get better.  That is as it should be.

dks.
Newsgroups: sci.physics,sci.chem