HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis)
Subject: Re: Bruckner (was: Re: Best finale)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 23:22:07 GMT

OK! OK! I can't restrain myself any longer!  I've been lurking here for a while
reading all the Bruckner adulation, and I just have to add myself to the list 
of those who couldn't care less about Bruckner.  Notice that I did not state 
that I hate Bruckner.  That would imply that his music had some strong effect 
on me, which it doesn't.  Bruckner moves me not at all.  Personally, I have 
better things to do with my life than listen to an overblown, interminable 
meander through the dregs of romanticism.  Give me one, just one, motet by 
Desprez, and you are welcome to everything Bruckner ever poured onto paper.  
Has anyone else besides me noticed the sheer weight of Bruckner-verbiage that 
clogs this newsgroup.  Comparing the percentage of Bruckner postings with the 
percentage of time allotted to Bruckner performences, either on classical music
radio stations or in live concerts, would tend to make me believe that either 
most of the world's bruckner lovers subscribe to this newsgroup or else there 
are a number of subscribers whose entire lives revolve around Bruckner's music 
(Perhaps some therapy would help?).  Really!! There is so much Brucknerage 
flying around the net that any novitiate to the world of classical music (and 
there have been such postings here lately!) would think that old Anton must be 
the best of the "three B's".  Can't we let it rest?

Back to the origin of this thread, best finales, would anyone else consider the
Amen which concludes Victoria's _Ave Maria_ (the one for 4 voices)?   *GRIN*

Michael
---
-- 
*>   Michael J. Valinis   -=+<*>+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   <*
*>=>  "Music is your own experience, your thoughts, your wisdom. If you  <=<*
*>+>=> don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." -Charlie Parker <=<+<*
*>=>+>=>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<=<+<=<*
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@kea.grace.cri.nz (Roger Young)
Subject: Opera by Aulis Sallinen again
Organization: Gracefield Research Centre, NZ.
Distribution: rec.music.classical
Date: 22 Dec 92 08:41:59


I'm posting this message again because my email address given in 
the previous bulletin appears to be incorrect. The correct 
address is: roger@maths.grace.cri.nz

Does anyone know of an opera by the Finnish composer Aulis Sallinen
which may be entitled _The King Rides Forth_? I understand that
Sallinen's Op.52 Shadows: Prelude for Orchestra used material from
the opera. Is there a commercially available recording of the
opera? Thanks....

Roger Young
From: mkrieger@hayes.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:22:08 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1gnii7INNibh@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) writes:
> I just listened to Brahm's Symphony #1 over and over and over...  The  
> final movement is possibly the BEST ending to a classical piece I have  
> ever heard!  That sparked me to ask this question to find out what else I  
> should listen to to hear some amazing endings:
> 
> What is YOUR favorite ending or finale to a classical piece?
> 
> --
> Kevin T. Stiner                    |"Space is big, really big!"
> stinerkt@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu  |--Hitchhiker's Guide to the 
> AMIGA 4000      Serial No. 000403  |  Galaxy
> NeXT mail encouraged!!             |


I guess my fav ending is Stravinsky's Firebird.  I get chills every time I
hear it.

Marci Krieger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jcm2w@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (John Clarke Mccanless)
Subject: Re: Urban legends
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 09:42:37 GMT

In article <18746@mindlink.bc.ca> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:
>I heard a story about Andre Previn when he was working in Hollywood. The
>musicians in the studio orchestra tuned up on B rather than A. But Previn had
>perfect pitch, so when the rehearsal started, he says "OK, let's transpose
>everything a tone up!" (Corrections to this story welcome if it is not
>exact.)

It would be a tone down, to restore A=440, but good story! =-)

I saw a PBS special of Solti's "new look" at Beethoven 5.  In rehearsal,
he stopped at the oboe solo in the first movement, and told the CSO the
following (loosely):

Dr. Mengelberg was conducting the 5th and stopped his orchestra at the
oboe solo.  He then talked for several minutes about his conducting 
teacher, who was a student of a student of Beethoven himself, and thus
the solo should always be played THIS way (insert hordes of adjectives
here).  At the end of the speech, the oboist paused, then said,
"So, Dr. Mengelberg, should I play it forte or piano?"


-- 
John C. McCanless				jcm2w@virginia.edu

"Genius!  Pure, unadulterated, GENIUS!!"  - Wile E. Coyote

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Saxophone, use of
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:53:37 GMT

I (David Brooks) write:
| And works like Rhapsody in Blue (the small-orchestra version), and

Actually, thinking of "versions", another feature of being around
high-school orchestras is having to accommodate saxophones (generally,
it's hard to say no to an aspiring member).  Many of the school-level
arrangements of classical music have optional sax parts.  The purist in
me shuddered, but I had a wonderful player who took the sax parts when
they were there, read the bassoon parts when they weren't, and provided
a welcome thickening to the lower parts of the texture.

He was killed by a drunk driver two years ago today.  Rest in peace, Chris.
From: ST801578@brownvm.brown.edu (Calvin Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: TRUMPET INFO needed before Xmas, BACH?
Date: 22 Dec 92 05:54:23 GMT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Help me quick!  I need info about TRUMPETS.  I don't know anything about
them I just play the violin.  Here's the story:  my friend's mom wants
to buy a new trumpet for her talented son.  This is supposed to
be a christmas present.  She wants to buy one of the best trumpets available
under $3,000.  Well, she doesn't know anything about trumpets either, so
she came to me for help... What's a violinist supposed to know???  But she
does know that her son mentioned a trumpet made by BACH...  Is there a
particularly good model made by that company.  If so, how much for a brand
new and how much for an old one.  Or do you have recommendations for another
brand.  I think we're primarily interested in getting one of the best models
made by BACH but we've haven't started our search yet, and don't even know the
model name/number/identification....  Help us please.  It's almost x-mas.
Many thanks in advance...  Your info will help us from getting ripped off.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ridgway@athena.mit.edu (Lee Ridgway)
Subject: Re: Looking for Classical Wedding Music
Keywords: wedding music classical
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:36:08 GMT

I've read a few of the replies, so thought to throw in my two cents. Being an
organist who has played many weddings in Episcopal churches (from high to low), I
feel I have some expertise in this area.

Generally, when a church says that the music should be sacred, they mean that it
shouldn't be from things like opera, pop music, show tunes, or blubbery
transcriptions of symphonic or piano music (no Chopin with all tremulants blazing
- pardon my mixed metaphor).

So any music composed for the organ that would have most likely been played in
church (which is at least 90% of organ music) should be acceptable. Especially if
it is by Bach! 

As for your situation, if the church and organ are of small to moderate size, and
the organ is of classic style, tonally (good presence of sound, not dull,
tubby, or buried sounding), then it's just a matter of you selecting from the
wealth of music. My suggestion is that you meet with the organist of the church
who, if he or she knows their stuff, can help you select what you want.

Or, if that's not convenient, talk with organists who are closer to where you
are. And try to get recordings to listen to.

Good luck! It's great when couples who want lots of music start planning well in
advance. Makes my organist life much easier.
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:19246 rec.music.early:1820
From: gtaylor@vme.heurikon.com (Gregory Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.early
Subject: Re: *Very* early music
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:38:31 GMT
Reply-To: gtaylor@vme.heurikon.com (Gregory Taylor)
Organization: Heurikon Corporation, Madison, WI

In article <1992Dec22.180113.6104@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:
>The following is a loose translation of an article in the French
>"Journal du CNRS", dec. 1992. It describes a concert of 2d cent. BC music
>No recording, but a concert in
>Metz on June 6, and a show on France Musique on December 13.

AAAAARgh. I don't suppose any of our continental brethren actually might
have had a *tape* of it, yes?




Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze?

--
The law moves quickly in the rain/and chokes the world with memorials./The
courts accept the lowest superstition/into evidence. And we embrace quickly in
the rain,/conceiving a hale infant with hands to wrinkle/the bedsheets toward
it, wave by trough by wave./Gregory Taylor/Heurikon /Madison, WI/608-828-3385
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gtaylor@vme.heurikon.com (Gregory Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.misc
Subject: FYI: Lovely Music....
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:39:59 GMT
Reply-To: gtaylor@vme.heurikon.com (Gregory Taylor)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Heurikon Corporation, Madison, WI

In the midst of chasing down some information, I had the always pleasant
opportunity to talk with our contact at Lovely Music. In light of the
recent release of Robert Ashley's recent opera "Improvement", I had 
occasion to inquire about the status of the earlier "Atalanta (Acts of
God). No, it's not on CD; in fact, some netters have expressed a bit of
exasperation when it came to actually finding a copy of it *anywhere.*
It appears that there are some copies of the 3-LP boxed set of the entire
opera still at Lovely (they must not have *all* been at NMDS when it
sank!), and you can score one for yourself for $30. Their address is

	Lovely Music
	260 West Broadway
	NYC NY 10013

Also on their upcoming release list is a couple of Lovely Music
"Chestnuts": Meredith Monk's "Key" on CD, along with Paul Dresher's
"Liquid and Stellar Music/From the Same Temple". On the new release
list, there's work from William Duckworth (choral) called "Southern
Harmonies", some electronic work from Yasunao Tone, and Ashley's
"Alice Afficianado" (jeepers - do I have the title right?) in the
coming year. This follows right on the heels of a re-release of
Alvin Lucier's "Music on a Long, Thin Wire" and a new Roger
Reynolds: "Voicespace."

With regards,
Gregory

P.S. The context of this was an entire show of works on vinyl that had
never seen release on CD. A scene from the Ashley *and* from Dresher's
guitar/tape delay piece "Liquid and Stellar Music" were *both* on the
playlist [along with the "Ananas Symphonie" from the Kraftwerk twins
Ralf und Florian, whose 1976 album "Kraftwerk" on Vertigo *isn't*
slated for re-release. It's nice to see at least *some* work finally
make it to CD....

--
The law moves quickly in the rain/and chokes the world with memorials./The
courts accept the lowest superstition/into evidence. And we embrace quickly in
the rain,/conceiving a hale infant with hands to wrinkle/the bedsheets toward
it, wave by trough by wave./Gregory Taylor/Heurikon /Madison, WI/608-828-3385
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Subject: Re: CD prices
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:57:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.080720.20221@midway.uchicago.edu> pkbockus@gsbphd.uchicago.edu (Keith Bockus) writes:
>
>While one may doubt that the *industry* demand curve is terribly steep,
>it is the *firm* demand curve that is relevant to Mr. Goiffron.  
>A firm sees a marked falloff in demand once it's prices rise
>above those of the close substitutes.  It is thus not implausible 
>that dropping prices to it's competitors' (e.g. Polygram) levels 
>would result in a dramatic increase in volume.  Price $1 below
>the competition, and they'd probably have to add extra shifts
>at the factory :-)

This points to one of the many crude aspects of my post: I implicitly 
treated all CDs as substitutes, i.e. one Beethoven 9th is as good as any 
other.  A serious analysis would take that aspect into account. Why are
CDs not substitutes? To some degree, varying manufacturing quality (I
include the quality of the initial recording). More importantly, the
differing talents of different artists. This was already discussed a 
few months ago: I would argue that taking artists' talents into account
would actually lead you to expect *high* prices for CDs.

-- 

	Francois Velde
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: CD prices
Date: 29 Dec 1992 15:54:12 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: elroy.uh.edu

[...]
> 2) Our stores in the Las Vegas area are a horrible example of what lack of 
>decent middlemen (middlepersons?) can be like; I have to plan about 2 trips 
>per year to the West Hollywood and Westwood Village stores to get any decent 
>variety in CDs, in spite of our having a Tower, some Wherehouses and the 
>usual sprinkling of mall shops. And the less said about my experiences with 
>mail order CD shopping, the better...
>
>Lamont Downs
>downs@helios.nevada.edu


Exactly... And not just in 'Vegas, either.  The "classical" departments
of most stores in Houston have a few of those $3.99 discs (some of which 
are admirable performances) which are presumably designed to be sold as
gifts to that "difficult" great aunt who's "so out of touch"...  Visits to
Tower are like a pilgrimage (will appropriate pennance when the credit card
bill arrives later).  And try asking a sales-assistant if they have the new
Stockhausen CD in stock... ;=)  

[usual disclaimers]

Bill


+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: M"ullerin and lieder tenors
In-reply-to: hsong@ardour.bellcore.com's message of Mon, 28 Dec 92 02:36:33 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 31 Dec 92 00:45:01 CST


Concerning Wunderlich's Schoene Muellerin, no one has mentioned that he
released two recordings: (from memory) 1955, available here on Nonesuch,
and 1965 on DG.  I love both these, and they're perfect representations
of, repectively, a really young great voice and a more mature great
voice, with emphasis on great both times.  The early one conveys youth
and innocence in the most direct way: he's actually young, and I suspect
that the impression of innocence isn't acting.  The later recording adds
depth to the reading.  I find Wunderlich exemplary for this music.

Chris Brewster cb@cray.com


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hellerS@moravian.edu (sjh)
Subject: Re: Sorabji
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 13:52:11 EST

In <k3329zp@rpi.edu> mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb) writes:

>I recall that a posting was made a while ago announcing that there were
>tapes available of Sorabji performing some of his own works.  How can I
>get these?  Thanks.

I tried to order these through the only guy I know that claims to have
them. It is listed in the "Classical Pianist" newletter. This seems to be
some sort of basement operation. The guy collects, buys & sells old
records. He also has a few pages of listings of mostly "live" recordings of
famous pianists, mostly older (or dead) ones, but some younger ones as
well, all on tape. He claims that if you send him a tape of some pianist
you can take an equale length tape from his collection. Well, I offered him
some tapes, but also asked him what, if any, consideration is given to
copyright of the recorded performace. I really want that Sorabji tape!
Anyway, he never wrote back. It's been at least a couple of months now so I
doubt I'll hear from him ever again. If you want to try, the address is:

		The Classical Pianist
		P.O.Box 545
		Mundelein, IL 60060

The only other option might be trying to contact The Sorabji Archives in
England. I have info on that as well, but not handy. They sell all his
scores, both published and unpublished (mostly photocopies of manusctipts),
and _might_ also sell the recordings he made. If you're interested in that
route, send me some email and I'll dig it out.

	Steve Heller
	hellerS@moravian.edu

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Shostakovich symphony recommendations
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:41:54 GMT

jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank) writes:
: 	I'm just beginning to explore Shostakovich's symphonic output.
: To date, I own symphonies #7 (Mata/Dallas) and #6 & #9 (Jansons/Oslo),
: and I'd like to know your thoughts on the following:
: 	1.  What are the "best" recordings of his 11th and 13th?
: 	2.  Which other of his symphonies would be most worth exploring
: (as a possible guideline, I like the 7th much more than the 6th and 9th)?

Symphony No.4 (my own favourite) Moscow PO/Kondrashin, although I
	don't know if this is still around.
Symphony No.5 Czech PO/Ancerl ditto. There is also a Mravinsky version
	on Erato but it has had mixed reviews.
Symphony No.10 NYPO/Mitropoulos - almost dead heat for first
	recording, electrifying. But top marks go to Leningrad
	PO/Mravinsky on Erato; staggering performance, ferocious
	scherzo and *very* ambivalent ending. Mravinsky gave the
	premiere, as he did of several other DSCH symphonies.
Symphony No.11 Houston SO/Stokowski. The De Priest onm Delos is good,
	but this still beats them all.
Symphony No.12 Haven't heard it yuet, but the Leningrad PO/Mravinsky
	on Erato is apparently the only performance to make this sound
	like music.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: rms@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Rick Scherer)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:40:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Rachmaninoff's "VESPERS"
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical

In rec.music.classical, Nation@mindlink.bc.ca (Brian Nation) writes:

>Several years ago I heard a recording of Vespers that was absolutely
>astounding. I don't recall the performers, but I believe it was a Russian
>chorus. I've been looking for a CD and recently have noticed several versions
>available. Any recommendations?

>Also, I don't know Rachmaninoff's other choral works. How do they compare?

Recently, one of the critics in Fanfare recommended the version by 
Sveshnikov, on MDA 1000105.  

Rick Scherer
From: Frank.Panettiere@f2010.n391.z1.FidoNet.Org (Frank Panettiere)
Sender: UUCP@p0.f1060.n391.z1.FidoNet.Org
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: RE: SURVEY: FAVORITE PIANO CO
Date: 25 Dec 92 07:52:16 EST

My favorite piano concerto is ANY Mozart PC in a Minor key.  Alternates are
Shostakovich's Concerto for Piano, Trumpet, and Orchestra, Beethoven's
No.4, Brahms No.2, and Ravel's Concerto for the Left Hand.  I'll probably
think of others after I sign off.
                                                                Frank

 * Origin: The Coop: ARK tradition since '87 501-273-CHIC (1:391/2010)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt)
Subject: RFV: Bruckner Re: The BEST finale!
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
	<1992Dec22.154744.3519@walter.bellcore.com>
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:06:34

In article <1992Dec22.154744.3519@walter.bellcore.com> broken@venison.bae.bellcore.com (Tony Brokenborough) writes:

>Oh please shut up !!!!!!
  No, why should I do what you won't do.

>99% of the people on the net HATE's Bruckner's music. Even his contempories
>and the critics of his day hated his music. Whenever his music was critisized,
>he changed it !!!  That's why there are numerous 'originals' to many of his
>works. (The 'Bruckner problem' !!!!! )
  Ok! Let's call for a vote. I give one vote for Bruckner and I am quite
  sure that the 99 % isn't showing up. However, there is some experience
  that no evidence whatsoever convinces a person who has faith strong
  enough to ignore facts.
  Besides it is not true that his contemporaries and critics hated his
  music. There were some, but not all. Some of his symphonies were,
  if not popular, but approved and succesful (7th? not sure).
  I admit, it is a problem to have many versions, but there are of course
  only one originals, and most often they nowadays considered the best.

>I guess you haven't read the article posted here which talks about one 
>performer getting PHYSICALLY ILL after playing some of Bruckners junk !!! 
  There might be fault in both, you know.

  In general to hate is not to understand (and shows the determination not to).
--
!
!	Jyrki Wahlstedt
!		Jyrki.Wahlstedt@hut.fi
!
!  Our life is no dream, but it should and will perhaps become one.
!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: New archive of Russian recordings
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:09:08 GMT

00hfstahlke@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
: I heard a report on PBS last night that the Russians have opened up a fantastic
: (a word I normally avoid) archive of old recordings including, for example,
: Shostakovich performing his Op. 87 preludes and fugues, and many other
: wonderful and unheard treasures.  The report also mentioned a Western audio
: company working with them and the very high quality remastering that the
: Russians can do.  Does anyone know when and how any of this will be made
: available?  Or what delights we can look for to come from it?

there was a Searaphim LP of Shostakovich playing Preludes and Fugues
nos. 6, 7, 8, 20, 22 and 24 in mono some time back (I have a fairly
clean copy) I have no idea if these would stem from the same sessions
or not.

Much material that the USSR seized from Germany has been returned to
the West in the last few years - the DG 10CD Furtwaengler set was
drawn from such tapes, for example - so this could well be something
which is on the cards. Let's hope so.
--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: SURVEY: FAVORITE PIANO CONCERTO
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:03:48 GMT

zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:
: 
: I must admit I'm starting to enjoy these "Greatest All-Time" and "Favorite" 
: threads, so I'm starting another one.  :-)   The question is, What is your
: favorite piano concerto?

Bugger, forgot this: my most *important* piano concerto - for reason of
emotional associations - is the Schumann.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical