HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ed@cwis.unomaha.edu (Ed Stastny)
Subject: Re: Deckard as 6th Replicant doesn't hold water
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 06:03:21 GMT

dleibow@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David E Leibow) writes:
>>show that they can't explain it at all.  Please, I beg of you, stop the
>>ingenuous handwaving.  There are only a few explanations:
>it any more plain without just repeating myself.  I'm not trying to
>"explain" it at all.  The whole point is that it is absolutely
>unnecessary to "explain" it one way or the other.  ESP, memory implants,
>and all the rest are extremely strained speculation on the part of people
>who obviously have too much time on their hands.  The simplest
>"explanation" is, as I said, that this "coincidence" is simply artistic
>license used to symbolically emphasize a thematic point.  This is done in

Well, my girlfriend must have had "too much time on our hands" on the
drive home from the theater this evening...because we had a discussion
about the "unicorn".  We agreed it was a reference/allusion to the
possibility of Deckard himself being a replicant.  It's fun to discuss
stuff like that anyway.  Good movies do that.

>film and other forms of fiction all the time.  There is no need to
>"explain" it.  Why go to such ridiculous extremes to "prove" something
>which is entirely irrelevant to what the movie is about?

Not irrelevant at all.  Relationships explained, deception and future
all are tied in to Deckard's TRUE form (human or replicant).     
 
I haven't been reading this thread much...but here's what we thought
made it almost obvious that Deckard was a replicant (or the possibility
thereof):
 
-Rachel asking him if he'd ever administered the test to himself, and
his response.
 
-The unicorn dream, origami
 
-The pictures all over his piano (subtle?  To enforce false memories)
 
 
 
We also thought that it was at least an entertainable idea that Tyrell
was a skinjob too.
 
...e


--
 ____                     + Editor, SOUND News and Arts magazine
|____                     + PO BX 31104, Omaha,NE 68131 (lg SASE for copy)
|____ D@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU  + SOUND FTPable: quartz.rutgers.edu(pub/journals) 
(Ed Stastny/UNO/Omaha,NE) +                141.214.4.135(docs/zines/sound)
From: wixer!cactus.org!wixer!pro-smof.cts.com!rfletcher@cactus.org (Robert Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal II
Date: 26 Sep 1992 17:54:58 -0500
Organization: The SMOF-BBS: Science Fiction Online Since 1985 [512-467-7317]
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

  You CAN copyright titles.
----
ProLine:  rfletcher@pro-smof
Internet: rfletcher@pro-smof.cts.com
UUCP:     crash!pro-smof!rfletcher
ARPA:     crash!pro-smof!rfletcher@nosc.mil

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies,alt.cult-movies,alt.cyberpunk
From: neal@NeoSoft.com (Neal Symms)
Subject: Re: bladerunner script
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:46:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.162733.6197@muppet.bt.co.uk> bart@muppet.bt.co.uk
writes:
> ...
>150 pages of A4 size. No access to a scanner. Neither the time or the 
>inclination to waste it in the above venture.
>
>Sorry to rain on your parade, but this is -not- an option.
>
>I can't believe I have the only copy. Besides, mine looks like at least a 2nd
>generation photocopy itself.
>
I have a copy, too, and it looks like 5th or 6th generation photocopy! 
Maybe mine is a Xerox of yours  :-)  Lots of friends are always asking
me to scan it at work, but the software we have usually only gets about
90% of the characters from the scanner.  While this may sound OK at
first..  Think about it.  1 out of 10 characters is WRONG.  This makes
things virtually unreadable.  I'll give it another shot and see what it does.

Also, I've only got one page of the voice-over script (pg 5) and the shooting
script I have is VASTLY different from anything I've seen, including the
director's cut.  In the script I have, Gaff has quite a few lines, and there's
lots more dialog.  The script is dated (I think) February 24th, 1982.  Or was
it '81?  It's not in front of me.

P.S.  Since I'm sure everyone has beaten this to death, could someone please
enlighten me as to the results of the legality discussion of posting and
downloading movie scripts?

-- 
Neal Symms						neal@neosoft.com
Atari Advantage Magazine
From: warda@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: MAD MAX...best of the series
Date: 1 Oct 92 06:15:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

(much deleted)

> Mad Max 1 is a cult film here among "Motor Heads".  This country is full of
> Mean Black Fords, all trying to look like Max's car.
> As a film that becomes part of the culture of a nation, MM1 is perhaps the
> most influential of ANY Australian film...  More than Crocodile Dundee, or
> any of those silly period pieces like Picnic at Hanging Rock.
> 

You've got a damn good point there:  I'm not a "Motor Head" by any stretch of 
the imnagination (although I'm partial to the band :-)), but I would *LOVE* to
drive "the last of the V8s". The car chases are definitely part of the appeal.

Cheers,

   Bill Bennett                           JANET: warda@uk.ac.oxford.vax    
   CRC Growth Factors Research Group   Internet: warda%vax.oxford.ac.uk  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: hopkins@agora.rain.com (Scott Hopkins)
Subject: Re: LawnMower Man
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 07:52:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.090028.6000@usl.edu> drmres27@ucs.usl.edu (Mejia Pablo) writes:
>  Okay folks, the 20 million dollar question is:
>
>  Is the video release of "Lawnmower Man" the same cut as the theatrical
>  release??  I only saw it in the theater, but my roomates (who saw both)
>  insist that the intro sequence with the hyper-monkey is completely
>  different in the 2 different versions.
>
>  Any comments??
>
>  Specifically, they say that the hyper-monkey meets the Lawnmower Man in
>  the vid release.  I remember the hyper-monkey dying in the lab in the 
>  theatrical release.  Anyone else seen both????
>
 	Yeah, I've seen both and your roomates are correct.  The cut scenes
I noticed were the monkey scene - The money escapes the lab (no idea how)
and meets up with Job.  Job thinks the monkey is a comic book hero and
tries to protect him, but...  There are many other cut references to this
scene throughout.  - I also noticed that the wife/girlfriend of Pierce's
never left in the vid.  In fact she's in the confrontation with the shop.
I never noticed any other scenes, but I am interested to hear about them if
anybody saw more.
	Personally, I thought the added scenes were stupid and added
nothing of any value to the show.  I did like the show though.

	-Casey
	hopkins@agora.rain.com
From: cumming@PICA.ARMY.MIL ("Robert C. Cumming", PEO)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Verne and Wells movie info needed
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:34:19 GMT

There were, I believe, two "Robur" stories (novels?) by Jules Verne.  One was
called, as stated, "Master of the World" and the other was "Robur the Conqueror"
If memory serves, they involved a sort of aerial Captain Nemo who traveled
about in a sort of giant helicopter with multiple rotors.  Can't recall
anything else about the stories...

Regards,

Bob
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Deckard is NOT a Replicant
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:20:19 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <1992Sep26.221800.964@cc.tut.fi>, by jk87377@cc.tut.fi (Juhana Kouhia):
> In article <1992Sep24.211015.12811@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA>
> des@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Desmond Irvine) writes: 
>>The point is why would someone create a replicant that is supposed
>>to hunt other replicants down and terminate them (a "BladeRunner" replicant)
>>and make it weaker than them.
 
> (Because BR is not Terminator movie. :-)

You display all the subtlety of a Terminator here.  :-) 
(apart from the fact that this is not an argument at all)

Try not to think too much in black-and-white categories, that is not
good in Blade Runner.  Nobody is talking of presenting Deckard as a
superman.

> Why you think that it is not possible to make weaker replicant?

Nobody ever said it was not possible.  (Indeed, we can safely assume
that all the replicants before the Nexus-6 line were not as powerful.)
Nobody ever said it would not be possible to employ replicants as
Blade Runners (it would hurt the film's message if Deckard was one,
but that's another thread), even if they were not quite up to par.

The point is not that Deckard is weaker, but that he is TOO WEAK to do
his job properly, considering the opposition he is up against.
Therefore his being a replicant is not PLAUSIBLE because it would not
be a REASONABLE assignment.  
-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: jk87377@cc.tut.fi (Juhana Kouhia)
Subject: Re: Deckard as replicant??
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 17:44:26 GMT


In article <1992Oct2.185627.20779@iitmax.iit.edu>
thssapk@iitmax.iit.edu (([<{\_/}>])) writes:
>
>
>If you are going to made a replicant that kills other replicants,
>would you make the replicant a) stronger in intelligence, strength, etc...
>b) at least equal in strenght, itelligence, etc.  to the highest-level
>replicant you might face (although there is no basis whatsoever in the
>movie of giving renegade replicants such a fighting chance)?
>or
>c)  make him worse in all areas than replicants, and hope he gets lucky?

Nope. If I would like to make a replicant which kills other
replicants, I would like to make it more stonger and more or equal
intelligent than other replicants -- also, with tank, laser guns and
lots of explosive. (Also, my killing machine doesn't know word like
'female' and 'love' and 'dream'.)

Maybe Deckard was made just to be similar than other Blade Runners,
similar to *human* (not any killing machine).
I would like to again say that BR is not another Terminator movie with
the real killing machine.


>That's right, there is NO SENSE to making him such a weak 'replicant'.

If the purpose was to make a *human* replicant then yes.
Hmm... I can think about choises like you and others presented here,
but why you can think about choises like the above?

It seems from what you wrote you think the purpose of movie was
only to kill the other replicants and thus Deckard should be only a
killing machine replicant, if he were replicant at all.
(And if you don't think this way, you seem to not be able to think
them as an one -- you separate them badly.)
Also, your sentence gives immediately the claim that other Blade
Runners are unable to do their jobs (as human they are).

I don't deny that Deckard could be human only, but the reasons
for 'deckard is human' and 'deckard is not replicant'
looks quite unthought ones -- almost silly.


Juhana Kouhia
From: jpesonen@viikki.Helsinki.FI (JORMA JUHANI PESONEN (EKT))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: LawnMower Man
Date: 29 Sep 92 09:35:40 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki, Fac.Agric.For.

In article <1992Sep29.090028.6000@usl.edu> drmres27@ucs.usl.edu (Mejia Pablo) writes:


>  Is the video release of "Lawnmower Man" the same cut as the theatrical
>  release??  I only saw it in the theater, but my roomates (who saw both)
>  insist that the intro sequence with the hyper-monkey is completely
>  different in the 2 different versions.


>                       drmres27 the curious. 

Well your roommates are right: The video release contains almost a half an 
hour more material than the theatre release. Mainly from the beginning, but 
also in the "virtual sex" and end confrontation scenes.

Haven't seen it yet, but I'm following the papers...;-)

	Jozma	:-)
    JPESONEN@viikki.helsinki.fi  ///
                                ///   "Is all that we see or seem,
    There are realities        ///     But a Dream within a Dream?"
    Within realities, but     ///      Edgar Allan Poe
                     THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.movies:7715 rec.arts.movies:29504 alt.cult-movies:8718
From: muzzle@cs.uq.oz.au (Murray Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.movies,alt.cult-movies
Subject: Re: BR: Raw oysters, boiled dogs, tequila worms, calfskin wallets.
Date: 5 Oct 92 05:27:11 GMT
Reply-To: muzzle@cs.uq.oz.au
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.movies

In <1aogbkINNcl0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bx916@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ross W. Starkey) writes:


>To get away from the shouting match for a while:

>In Blade Runner (all cuts), why would Rachel turn in a guy for giving
>her a calfskin wallet?  What's the big deal about calfskin?  Not like
>the world's gone veggie or anything... 

Remember that "real" animals are extremely rare and expensive....

eg:

DECKARD: [looking at snake] Is it real?

ZORHA: Of course not.  Do you think I'd be working here if I could afford a
       real one?

(Hi Dave!)

Murray Chapman
muzzle@cs.uq.oz.au
From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal II
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:55:08 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Sep27.175731.1@fnalo.fnal.gov>, morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (Ganthet Elmo Gu) writes:
>In article <iq54560@pro-smof.cts.com>, wixer!cactus.org!wixer!pro-smof.cts.com!rfletcher@cactus.org (Robert Fletcher) writes:
>>   You CAN copyright titles.

>	No, you cannot (Disclaimer:  I am not an intellectual properties
>lawyer).  

Neither am I, but I know enough about copyright and trademark law from my
own writing to note that you _cannot_ copyright a title, but you _can_
trademark it.  As Lucas did, for example, with Star Wars (tm).

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
How about we all do something reasonable?  I bet that'll confuse 'em!
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.movies:7725 rec.arts.movies:29524 alt.cult-movies:8732
From: ahummel@ems.cdc.com (H. Austin Hummel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.movies,alt.cult-movies
Subject: Re: BR: Raw oysters, boiled dogs, tequila worms, calfskin wallets.
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:25:26 GMT
Reply-To: you@ems.cdc.com
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.movies
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC

In article <1aogbkINNcl0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bx916@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ross W. Starkey) writes:
|> 
|> To get away from the shouting match for a while:
|> 
|> In Blade Runner (all cuts), why would Rachel turn in a guy for giving
|> her a calfskin wallet?  What's the big deal about calfskin?  Not like
|> the world's gone veggie or anything... 
|> 

One of the basic conditions at the time was that all life forms were
endangered species except man. Only the very illegal had calf-skinned
anything.
From: jeffs@almaden.ibm.com (Jeff Schneiter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: LawnMower Man on VHS (SPOILERS)
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:54:28 GMT
Reply-To: jeffs@almaden.ibm.com (Jeff Schneiter)
Organization: IBM Almaden Research Center

In article <jpesonen.54@viikki.Helsinki.FI> jpesonen@viikki.Helsinki.FI (JORMA JUHANI PESONEN (EKT)) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.090028.6000@usl.edu> drmres27@ucs.usl.edu (Mejia Pablo) writes:
>
>
>>  Is the video release of "Lawnmower Man" the same cut as the theatrical
>>  release??  I only saw it in the theater, but my roomates (who saw both)
>>  insist that the intro sequence with the hyper-monkey is completely
>>  different in the 2 different versions.
>
>
>>                       drmres27 the curious. 
>
>Well your roommates are right: The video release contains almost a half an 
>hour more material than the theatre release. Mainly from the beginning, but 
>also in the "virtual sex" and end confrontation scenes.
>
>    JPESONEN@viikki.helsinki.fi  ///


I found the video release to be MUCH better than the theatre release.
Besides just the beginning having the extra stuggle to capture/kill the
chimp, it develops the relationship between the chimp and the LM (Lawnmower Man).
As the LM develops in intelligence, his understanding of what the chimp
really was, and how it relates to what he is becoming is shown. 

The new scene that I enjoyed the most, was when the LM was reading thru
the world history on CD, increasing the output of each CD to 2 mins each.
This added bit of his studying history and then realizing how complex the
world is, and also F...ed up it is, to me, explains the majority of his
actions later in the film.

I do not remember there being any additions to the sex scene.
But there was the added violence of his girlfriend getting killed, and
him having to watch it. That scene made the LM MUCH more evil than the
original release.

A question that I have is: did the LM ever receive 1 vial of original
batch B from the doc? I think that I remember baldy slipping 5 vials in
the fridge, then when the LM takes all of them out, I think I saw him grab
4. Did the doc stop treatments after or before the 1 vial? Remember he
stopped after the seizure was induced. Was that caused by batch B?

And, lastly, the editing job of the video version really bit. It was
so obvious where the new scenes were added, that it distracted from the
enjoyement of it (IMHO).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Jeff Schneiter   |   jeffs@almaden.ibm.com    |   (408) 927 - 1498     |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   "Everything I've held is what I've freed      |  Standard Disclaimer.  |
|    Everything I've shown is what I feel         |  I don't think like    |
|    Buying lies and stealing jokes               |  IBM does.             |
|    And laughing every time I choke              --------------------------
|    Biding all the time you took"    Soundgarden  _Badmotorfinger_        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: st1qp@Rosie.UH.EDU
Subject: Re: Cameron's cut "Abyss"
Reply-To: st1qp@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 08:25:03 GMT

In article <01GP8RQKXMQW8WWTXX@VAX1.UMKC.EDU>, CDOMS@VAX1.UMKC.EDU writes:
>I have heard (yet another) rumor about Cameron's cut of the Abyss to 
>be released on Laser Disc.  This rumor gives the month of December
>as the time for the release (sorry I did not hear a day).  Can anyone
>deny or confirm this rumor?


December 17th is the date.  New cut (3 hours), CAV, plus an hour of 
supplemental material.  Retail price: $100.

>
>Carol Doms
>University of Missouri-Kansas City
>cdoms@umkcvax1
>cdoms@vax1.umkc.edu


-Matt Tighe
From: abotha@bilbo.cs.uct.ac.za (A S Botha)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Blade Runner
Date: 29 Sep 92 06:43:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: bilbo.abotha.717748985
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

A couple of points regarding Blade Runner:

1) The city is not Hong Kong, it's a Cyberpunk LA. The tropical weather is due 
to the greenhouse effect and the large Asian population is due to immigration
and increasing Japanese influence on America. In Do Androids Dream of Electric
Sheep? the world is screwed up by radiation, the population has mostly moved 
off world, except the unwilling or the radiation damaged, there is no large 
Asian influx. Most people cluster together, although the character JF Sebastian
is based on does live alone because he is a radiation victim.

2) There are 6 replicants, the 6th is probably a continuity error. Deckard is
not a replicant, that is the point of the movie. Replicants are detected by 
their empatic response to a set of stimuli, Deckard is losing his ability to 
empathise due to his job as an executioner. He would probably fail
his own test. Rachel is a special replicant with the implanted memories of 
Tyrell's niece, she does not know she is a replicant until tested by Deckard
and by having a human background to fall back on and interacting with humans
she is difficult to tell from a human. She has sufficient feelings for Deckard
to blow away a fellow replicant to save him, so who is more human? 

3) There are different types of Nexus 6 replicants, they are graded A to C on
mental and physical ability and have an assigned function ie job. The following
is visible on Deckard's briefing screen in his boss's office:
 
ZHORA 
Nexus-6
Fn: Retrained Polit Homicide
Phys: Lvl A     Ment: Lvl B

BATTY
Nexus-6
Fn: Combat, Colonization Defense
Phys: Lvl A     Ment: Lvl A

PRIS
Nexus-6
Fn: Mil/Leisure
Phys: Lvl A     Ment: Lvl B

LEON
Nexus-6
Fn: Combat/Loader (Nuc. Fiss.)
Phys: Lvl A     Ment: Lvl C

By this stage number 5 has fried itself on an electric fence and number 6 has
dissapeared into a continuity error. If Deckard was a replicant, surely he
would require Physical and Mental level A to catch them, otherwise he doesn't
have a hope. 

4) Deckard finding the origami unicorn was supposed to be the end of the film,
with the implication that Gaff has retired Rachel, who is AWOL from Tyrell and
therefore no longer under their protection and therefore fair game. There is a
bounty paid for each retired replicant, something Gaff would not be adverse to
collecting, especially as there is little danger to him, Rachel is not a 
combat model.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: denebeim@brtph254.bnr.ca (Jay Denebeim P025)
Subject: Re: "Stranger In A Strange Land" To Be Filmed
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1992 22:48:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.062934.21172@cs.ucla.edu> coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu (Mike Coleman) writes:
>Actually, the actor I always picture was the guy who played the sort of old
>coot in the movie _The Andromeda Strain_.  He works a lot, but I can't
>remember his name.

If you're talking about the doctor who got caught at the end with the
virus, but lived, I believe that was 'David Wayne'.  The 'old coot' in
the movie IMO would be the sick sterno drinker, I don't know his name.
I doubt he's still alive, that movie was made around 23 years ago.
-- 
Jay Denebeim     Address: UUCP:     duke!wolves!deepthot!jay
                          Internet: jay@deepthot.cary.nc.us
                 BBS:(919)-460-7430      VOICE:(919)-460-6934
From: g.coulter@daresbury.ac.uk (G. Coulter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: LawnMower Man
Date: 29 Sep 92 09:24:01 GMT
Reply-To: g.coulter@daresbury.ac.uk
Organization: Daresbury Laboratory, UK

>>I remember the hyper-monkey dying in the lab in the 
>>theatrical release.

Not sure about the Video but you are right about the motion picture
the "Hyper_Monkey" was indeed shot inside the VSI lab by security 
guards.

Gary.. 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.movies,alt.cult-movies