HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:23:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov13.152338.9904
Organization: insert anything here

gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>ck> #2 fosters an attitude of intolerance toward gay people, which translates
>    in the minds of some extremists into: "it's okay to bash gay people."

>  Then that's the extremists' problem, isn't it? That's like saying that the
>  selling of alcohol makes drunk driving OK. The problem is with the people
>  who drink and drive, not those who sell alcohol.

	Fuck you - Tell that to the person at the other end of the 
knife/gun/fist.

	Your postings are way out of line for soc.motss.  Please
edit the newsgroups line accordingly.

BBC
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47288 alt.politics.homosexuality:7114 co.politics:1882
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:03:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux1.1992Nov13.000355.22810
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <1992Nov12.221645.25826@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:

>  Teenagers commit suicide for puppy love, because they have bad skin, because
>  they don't get good grades, because Dad didn't let them have the car, and so
>  on. Teenagers are, for the most part, so emotionally immature and insecure
>  about themselves that they can commit suicide for incredibly bizarre reasons.

    ....and those reasons include recognizing that they are gay and that
there is something wrong with that (per our society).  The president's
Commission on AIDS and the National Institute on Mental Health, among other
agencies, have tried several times to get funding for a large study on
teenagers' sexuality; the purpose is not only to address this question but
also identify their sexual practices for use in safe-sex education.
Unfortunately, and predictably, Bush and his cronies (including that jerk
Sullivan, the head of NIH) thwarted any such study.
    A previous study, that indicated that gay teenagers were three times
more likely to commit suicide than straight ones, was suppressed by the
Bush administration at the behest of Helms et al.  References available
on request.
    Make no mistake...gay teens definitely kill themselves over their
sexual identity.
 
>  In any case, I don't recall many blacks committing suicide because of the
>  racism they suffered, and it's a lot easier to bash blacks than it is to
>  bash gays.

    How would you know?

-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: colorado springs
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 21:52:16 GMT


In article <1992Nov13.174511.4127@PacBell.COM>
rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:

>>The anchorperson was indredulous.

>Stories like this make *my* hair matty too :-)

Euuwww!  You have something in common with Melmon: matty hair!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Harasser Caught
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 10:40:20 GMT


Saw the following on the telecom group, thought it might
be of interest, and certainly a little out of our usual line:

=====


  From zazen!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken!telecom-request Sat Nov  7 06:08:29 CST 1992
  Article: 21766 of comp.dcom.telecom
Path: zazen!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken!telecom-request
  From: MPA15AB!RANDY@TRENGA.tredydev.unisys.com
  Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
  Subject: Alleged Phone Harasser Arrested While Paying $18,000 Bill
  Message-ID: <telecom12.825.1@eecs.nwu.edu>
  Date: 6 Nov 92 09:57:00 GMT
  Sender: Telecom@eecs.nwu.edu
  Organization: TELECOM Digest
  Lines: 36
  Approved: Telecom@eecs.nwu.edu
  X-Submissions-To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu
  X-Administrivia-To: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu
  X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 12, Issue 825, Message 1 of 11
  
  The {L.A. Times} reported in its Saturday, October 24, 1992 Orange
  County Edition (I'm a little behind -- I'll probably find out who won
  the Presidency someday next week) that a man wanted in Denver for
  allegedly making several thousand harassing calls was arrested after
  trying to pay his $18,000 bill at an Irvine, California cellular
  telephone office.
  
  Among his alleged victims are a city councilwoman, a police detecive,
  and a gay and lesbian suicide prevention hot line, which was forced to
  shut down for a while because of his flood of calls.
  
  The Times reported that he is alleged to have been making these calls
  for at least ten years, and was arrested seven times before.  It said
  he had a lot of money available to him, and made harassing phone calls
  to anyone he didn't like.
  
  The man, David George Neuman, was said to live in a motor home with
  nine dogs and twelve cellular phones which he used to allegedly make
  the calls.
  
  He was arrested in Denver, but set free by accident, and has eluded
  police up to now.
  
  He was arrested because police allerted cellular phone companies
  nationwide, and the Irvine company (no name given) called police and
  said he was coming in to pay his bill.  Other cellular companies have
  been asked not to give him service.
  
  The story did not say why he used cellular phones to make his calls.
  
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glenns@tronsbox.xei.com (Glenn S.)
Subject: Re: Melrose Place
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Distribution: soc.motss
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:47:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.200035.3981@njitgw.njit.edu> andy@eies2.njit.edu (Andy) writes:
>
>Did any else catch the reference to OR-2 and CO-9 in last nights
>episode of Melrose Place?

Yeah!  Ry & I were sitting at home watching the tube, and we heard Matt's 
lawyer come out with that!  We both sat there and said "All RIGHT!"
 
Now, let's hope the Clinton keeps his promises, eh?  If he does, (gods, I hope
he does...) then CO-2 will be invalidated.  
 
Y'know, there are some times when I wish we could all move to a huge,
unpopulated continent.  We'd truly be a nation, and we wouldn't discriminate
against age, race or sexual preference, as long as everyone was cool.
 
(sigh) We can dream, right?
 
B*B
Glenn
(Ry Schwark's infamous roomie)


-- 
+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Bright Blessings from Glenn Sieb! | glenns@tronsbox.xei.com       Internet|
| Eye of Newt, Toe of Frog and a    | Glenn Sieb  1:107/869          FIDOnet|
| side of fries    ... please!      | Glenn Sieb  93:9400/5           PODnet|
+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: ""The Hidden Sailor""
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:43:11 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton) breakes in on Sim Aberson, Mike
Drayton and Jess Anderson to say:

 >Now, I know you boys are having fun, but you've deleted the
 >chunk of my message that really mattered to me, that is,
 >is it a LESBIAN bar she is opening?  and if so where?

 >Yours for the third time looking for the same information,
 >Laura

Now, Laura, I didn't know that women were _allowed_ to change the
subject back to what they're interested in.  What a revolutionary
idea this could be!

Of course, _I_ have no information on it either, but at least 
I'll take the opportunity to repeat your question.

Mara [greatly refreshed]


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: ok, let me try this again
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:25:12 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

spencer@shade.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun) writes:

 >But anyway I mentioned that for better arguments against CO#2 and other
 >reasons mentioned way back in my first paragraph, that they should read
 >soc.motss.  Well, the traffic was so high that they don't want to read
 >it.

But you can refer them to specific articles that you think are worth
their effort.  With most newsreaders, all they need is the Message ID.

 >Their loss, yes, but in some sense I think that, especially if lots of
 >other heteros fitting a similar profile are turned off from reading
 >soc.motss, then it's OUR loss as well.
At the risk of seeming terribly possessive about this group, 
I'd say that one of the last things soc.motss needs to worry
about is cultivating more straight readers.  Not that I want _fewer_
straight readers (except for the ones that we all know aren't
welcome here).  It's just that what makes reading this group such a
wonderful learning experience for a straight person is precisely
that it is a window into The Gay Community, in some fairly
meaningful sense of that expression.  To remove the "side issues,"
(always assuming that anyone could decide which issues are on the
side, and of what) would be to remove a lot of the context into
which pieces of other discussions fall.

 >Someone proposed education as being a useful tool (not necessarily
 >the only one, but A useful tool anyway) in combating bigotry and
 >ignorance... reading soc.motss would definitely be educational for my
 >friends, but if I can't get them to read it, well.
Well, if you can't, you can't.  You can still point them to special
articles, or tell them what threads (or posters) to add to their
kill files.  Or not.

Ultimately, it's up to them, isn't it?

-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Moonshine, the election, and you
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:56:30 GMT
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam

mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>Perhaps Madame du WH could clarify exactly where ..

Oh dear, he doesn't get it.

Who's going to tell him?
					FJ!! (Pas moi, cherie. It is
					somehow too embarrasing.)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ric@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Graffiti 404-972-4999)
Subject: Political/Financial activist project...
Summary: Send a copy of the receipt to the 'phobe competitor...
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:40:14 GMT

Here's a great project anyone can do for The Cause<tm>:

Determine an anti-gay merchant in your area. Then, determine a pro-gay
competitor to this merchant. Make a substantial purchase at the pro-gay
shop, and then photocopy the receipt. Circle the total paid in red, and
include it in a letter to the 'phobic merchant, explaining that he could
have had that money if it wasn't for his anti-gay reputation. Tell him 
that that is  money he =lost= because of irrelevant bigotry. Tell him
that you will certainly reevaluate his position in the future, but he
will continue to lose your dollars if his business remains anti-gay.

The important thing in the preceeding exercise to to show real dollar
loss and explain why. Do it. It'll make you feel good.

-- 
 -Ric     __                       __                                 __
          \/   ric@gnu.ai.mit.edu  \/   Graffiti BBS  404 972-4999    \/
                 GEnie: GRAFFITI      PO Box 3176, Lithonia GA 30058
From: gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado Addresses
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:40:19 GMT
	<5223@calmasd.Prime.COM>
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University

In article <5223@calmasd.Prime.COM> wlp@calmasd.Prime.COM (Walt  Peterson) writes:

   }As to Coors advertising in the Advocate - boycott the Advocate until
   }they pull their Coors ads.

   Also "Christopher Street".

Pardon me, but, why? Let 'em advertise in ADVOCATE. They're sending money
out of CO to do it. We don't have to buy their beer. Let them waste their
advertising dollars on us.
From: gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: OCA launches _new_ petition drive
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:05:01 GMT
	<1992Nov6.154132.19394@osf.org>
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University

In article <1992Nov6.154132.19394@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:

   In article <Bx9M2n.87L@world.std.com>, entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one) writes:
   > In article <Bwyp7F.ALI@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
   > >AND NOW!  FROM THE SAME KIND FOLKS WHO BROUGHT YOU OREGON MEASURE 9!
   > >
   > >   *   *   *   A new initiative petition drive   *   *   *
   > >
   > >to establish an government committee to oversee and control radio,
   > >TV and print news coverage.
   > 
   > Actually this is probably good news, this means they will be wasting there
   > money on something that will make them look like complete idiots and has
   > no chance of passing in the current political climate.

   Don't count on it. Reasonable people would have said that the wording
   of Measure 9 made its sponsors look like complete idiots. It took
   massive campaigning to get 55% of the electorate to vote against it.

So? Let them pass it. Let them sign it into law. The WHOLE COUNTRY will be
watching them because the media will HATE IT. Everyone will see what hateful,
dangerous people OCA really are. And if it passes, it will say worlds about
the people of Oregon, and it's sure to go down in the Supreme Court, even with
the republicant appointees.
From: misek@solbourne.com (Steve Misek)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Address for Boulder TShirts
Date: 11 Nov 1992 14:56:08 -0700
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin-gw.solbourne.com


>>>It was rumoured that the campus organization has designed a T-shirt
>>>     "Don't shoot, I'm actually a Black Bear"
>>>printed over a large pink triangle (In reference to the black bear
>>>ordinance which overwhelmingly passed in Tuesday's election #10)...
>>>black bears have more rights than we do...

Ok, here's the scoop.  Just got off the phone with the group putting
this together... we will be meeting tomorrow evening to work out the
logistics and pricing for the shirts - as well as determining which
fund this will benefit.

I will be off the net (due to moving our offices) from Thursday Nov 12th
through Monday morning, however I will attempt to post the information Friday
morning.

steve
misek@solbourne.com
misek@parcplace.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.homosexual,alt.feminism
From: nasiatka@anhep3.anl.gov
Subject: Re: Looking for a Queer Friendly Place
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Argonne, Illinois
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:18:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.170344.14782@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.153240.6869@news.stolaf.edu>
>cjohnson@lars.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Carrie L Johnson)
>writes:
>
>>Hi Ya'll,
>>I need your help, as of right now I'm transfering and I need help as to where 
>>to go...
>
>>I'm a writer and that is also very important to me.  What i would love is a 
>>place where i can get a good education in writing and be politically active
>>with a LARGE community on a VERY queer friendly campus...
>

Lesee here.  U of Minnesota has a pretty friendly campus.
  (Minniapolis/St. Paul area)
UW Madison is good that way too.
There's Columbia College in Chicago. That's mostly arts.
Northwestern is good to, but I don't know about the Writing
 program there.

Jim Wylde
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Lesbian Visibility on Roseanne
Date: 13 Nov 92 20:17:35 GMT

scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker) writes:

sbgreene@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Steven Greene) writes:
>Yes, my favorite Morgan Fairchild quote is something along the
>lines of, "What happens if the virus goes airborne?"  She uttered
>this beaut in a fundie anti-gay propaganda video a few years back
>(referring to HIV, of course).

It can't have been as you say.  Since Day One, Morgan Fairchild has been
one of our most staunch allies in the fight against AIDS and, equally as
important, AIDS-related discrimination.

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to our friend Rob Bernardo.
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: To the protest voters
Date: 2 Nov 92 14:48:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.Bx3Fsw.9CL
Organization: Open Communications Forum

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>I wonder how these same folks decide upon a mate.  "Miss/Mr. Right" is a
>fiction, both in love and politics.  

Barry!  D'you hear that?  You're ficticious!

Barry?

Now where'd he go...?
-- 
Brent Capps                          | 
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | okay, but wash it first.
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: spencer@burn.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Subject: principles (was Re: Colorado's Amendment 2)
Reply-To: spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Live Organ Transplants
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 11:31:30 GMT

In article <mattm-041192131417@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.185406.3267@tc.cornell.edu>,
>shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) wrote:
>
>> Sorry Andrew, but your company contributes to the Colorado
>> tax base.  I intend to boycott Colorado and all products
>> made in Colorado (to the extent that I know about them),
>> too.
>
>Translation:  "Sorry if it puts you out of a job, but my principles 
>have been offended.  And besides, I don't work for a living, I
>think."

This is often a source of disagreement between my friends and me, but I
place utmost importance on principles.  IMHO "I value my life and
well-being above any other principles" is not a good principle.  It
severely weakens any others that you might hold.

Your principles go a long way towards defining who you are as a person
(some weird kind of existentialism? :-) ).  If your principles change
when something important is on the line, then you principles weren't
really what you said they were, and you aren't who you claimed to be.
"Big deal," you say.  Well, it is to me.  Not everyone works that way
though.  Such is life.

-----
sss/PU'94 Dept of CS (spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu)/JvNCnet (spencer@jvnc.net)
Be excellent to each other and party on.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:05:45 GMT

tc> Tom Christiansen

tc> Let's say that my personal moral belief is to hire only white married men
    who go to my church.  I have 1,000 employees.  I categorically reject any-
    one who doesn't meet these criteria.  Or let's say I have a housing project
    and do the same thing.  

  OK by me. You'll suffer for it, though. I sure won't do business with you.

tc> I don't think this should be permitted, and the courts have consistently
    ruled against it.  But you seem to like it.

  Whoa. There's a big difference between allowing something and condoning some-
  thing. I allow Will Perkins his freedom of speech. I do *not* condone what
  he says. Notice the difference?

tc> Shall we then go back to black and white bathrooms and all that entails?

  If that's all the better human beings can be, then I guess we're a doomed
  species, aren't we? If the only thing keeping us from primitive tribalism
  is the threat of state force, then we aren't worth it. I happen to think
  we're better than that.

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Colorado Cesspool
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:24:17 GMT

> cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe) writes:

>Sorry!  In for a penny, in for a pound.  The economic grief must be 
>visited on all.  If HP wants to do business in homophobic KKKolorado, 
>then it is de facto supporting that benighted state's political 
>agenda.  If it truly believes in non-discrimination, then I suggest 
>that it tell its employees, a fair number of whom probably supported 
>the amendment, that it is closing its operations and moving to a 
>jurisdiction where bigotry is not legalized.  It may appear that this 
>is an unreasonable request for a company with several plants in 
>KKKolorado, but I can envisage few things which would make a greater 
>impact on the mountain air bigots than to have major corporations 
>announce that they are leaving the state.  Further, this would send a 
>clear message to other states where such a referendum may be in the 
>offing.  HP should announce that it will move its plants to those 
>states that have enacted laws that universally ban discrimination.  If
>all of the corporations with non-discrimination policies followed 
>through in this fashion, I suspect the lesson would be a powerful one.

All very true, of course, but I think you have a rather
unrealistic view of the lengths corporations will go to,
unless forced, in adhering to ethical principles.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Twice Fucked (Colorado gays)
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 12:26:28 EST

markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:

> Unfortunately, for now all I can do is offer moral support and await
> word from Colorado as to what actions we should take.  I will not
> boycott Colorado products unless directed to do so by the Colorado
> community lest I indirectly harm our brothers and sisters living there.
> I trust and need your guidence on how to proceed from here.

thank you for the wise words (and for inserting a very good point)
IS there a group in Colorado to 'direct' or advise the REST of the gay community?
and let us know the prefered action/s to take?

I agree, let us NOT hurt our lesbigay brothers and sisters that DID fight against
this bill (remember there WAS opposition)

penn

Newsgroups: soc.motss