From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: stuff
Keywords: Asian-Americans
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 20:24:28 GMT

In article <1g90ceINN90k@agate.berkeley.edu> chrchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Christopher Chan) writes:
>In article <1g8scjINN880@agate.berkeley.edu> judyy@ocf.berkeley.edu (Judy Y. Tseng) writes:
>>What does being bothered by stereotypes have to do with "being loyal,"
>>anyway? I think what you mean is that AAM are so loyal b/c they only
>>date AAFs, whereas AAFs are not being "loyal" by dating non-Asians.
>
>Maybe.  I know far more AM's who'll date exclusively AF's than the
>other way around.  But I'm sticking with what I said before.  Several
>male posters including myself expressed concern about Asian fetishes.
>Not a single AF did.  The only comment from an AF was, "why should
>we be concerned that many men find AF's attractive?"  Also, back in
>my high school days, I found myself always sticking up for the AF's
>when my AM friends who all had CF girlfriends would say things like
>"Asian girls are too boring," or "they're too prudent."

  Chris, do you REALLY REALLY need to get me started again?  You're
  obviously new to this newsgroup.  Did you want to see the article
  I posted to soc.culture.african.american which got me flamed by
  some AFs?  (And a lot of "you're so right" from Af Ams.)  Only
  problem is that I don't keep my articles or correspondence, but I
  know someone who might have at least the flame, and my responses
  to the flames.  If you want, I'll ask him to forward the whole
  circus to you.

  I also have private juicy discussions about these stereotypes and
  how I hate them and how the pickup line guaranteed to turn me off
  is "Oh I just love Chinese girls." said in a leering tone.  My response
  is "That's great, there are about 1/2 billion minus one to choose from."
  I'm one person who hates being viewed as a "China doll", "Asian fetish".
  I also got flamed for saying that I hated that David Bowie song "China
  Girl", and that I find it insulting that they'd play it on TV whenever
  they're doing some documentary on travel to China.  And even worse, to
  have my "friends" play that song for me on my surprise birthday party!
  I mean, as I walk into the door and they yell surprise.  How clueless
  are these people.  And you gotta smile and thank them...

  I could go on and on.  And tell you some of the more insidious stereotyping
  from people who you thought were your friends.  I've had brief, and I mean
  brief dating relationships with white men, because my friends insisted that
  I should have an open mind and "try it, you'll like it."  Only to find
  that the guy thinks he's being PC or cool to go out with me.  So why not
  be even more PC and go out with a Black woman?  Geez, I don't need to be
  someone's PC button on their denim jacket.  The only white guy who didn't
  have these stereotypes was an Icelandic guy who obviously was not raised
  in this AmeriKKKan culture.
>

  And if you want to get even more frothing at the mouth, you should hear
  what this white lesbian said to me to try to get me to switch.  She said
  that white lesbians were more masculine than those wimpy Asian males.
  Then she had a shock when she saw a picture of my body-building Hispanic
  boyfriend (now husband) with the bandido mustache.  I guess that she just
  assumed that my boyfriend was some skinny flat-chested, knock-kneed,
  4-eyed, buck-toothed, Chinaman that she could knock over with her bull-dyke
  boot-heel.  Never mind that I find white women DISGUSTING.  Geez, I have
  to live with them exposing themselves in the locker rooms without a care.
  And to listen to her cutting down my brothers.  This is the kind of crap
  that we Asian females get, okay?  And to have them talk about us like
  we're some exotic flower or forbidden fruit.  Scamming on some half-Asian
  chick and wondering if she "qualified" as an Asian fetish or not.

  And you want to get even more pissed?  You should hear what my white
  friend who hasn't had a date in more than 15 years, wondering if he
  should lower his standards and go for an Asian girl.  AND he actually
  wanted me to help him get this girl.  Of course I did just the opposite...
  He thinks that since he's not good enough for a white woman, he might
  get an Asian woman since they're all so desparado for white men, and
  can look up to him.  Unfortunately for him, the Asian girl he wanted
  got another white man.  Ha ha ha.

>>Things aren't any better for AAFs. We face racial discrimination as well as
>>sexism from both Asian and non-Asian men. So the next time you go all
>>off about Asian women this, Asian women that, Chris, try some understanding
>>and logical thinking first. The movement starts with yourself.
>>
>>Judy
>>
>
>Okay, that's great you feel that way.  Now are ther any others
>who feel the same way?  How many AF's would you say feel the
>same way (that these stereotypes are damaging)?

  Me and the person who flamed me.  We BOTH agree with that.  However
  she feels that it was damaging of me to "expose" these stereotypes
  in another newsgroup, sort of like airing dirty laundry.  I just don't
  like to be too critical of whites on this newsgroup because they always
  start a flame war, and I don't have time to sustain one since I'm busy
  at work, and am sort of sick of this topic.  Judy has also sustained
  flaming for expressing her outrage of the "white-savior-syndrome"
  There are certain people that feel like if you criticize one white
  person, you're dehumanizing and criticizing all of them.  So I've
  stayed out of this discussion, so far.  But since you really want to
  know, I feel that the above mentioned people have dehumanized me with
  their lousy stereotyping and fetishes.  I feel that it's better to
  be rejected because of lousy stereotypes, than to be desired for the
  wrong reasons.  The latter is definitely more insidious, because you
  cannot separate the wheat from the chaff.
>
>Chris Chan