HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: How Occupied Is Jerusalem?
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:18:21 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Apr12.231148.22032@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>Thanks for that last qualifier... they are not the same. With any luck,
>we will get rid of Ariel Sharon this spring.

Luck?  Need any help?

Anisa

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:11002 talk.politics.soviet:3474 soc.culture.greek:3381
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek
Subject: ...Not Even For One Day - In The History Of The World, 'The*.'
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:37:00 GMT


<1992Apr14.075828.15932@wuecl.wustl.edu>
tpd1@cec1.wustl.edu (Theodore P. David)

>Why bother answering to this ......... Yiannis? 

Keep searching for ways to protect your ego, 'The*.'

>Mutlu...have you ever been to Cyprus? Where ever you turn your head, you
>see ancient Greek Ruins, Byzantine churches, let alone that as Yiannis
>noted (in case you didn't know) 80% of the population are Greeks (Greek-Cypriot
>if you like). Where did all these come from. Did the Turks brought them there?

I was convinced that no one could have a more warped sense of the world.
Do you think you've diddled around long enough with my article? It is the 
same mentality which allows Greeks to rationalize that Cyprus is a Greek 
Island. No history book shows that it ever was. It belonged to the Ottoman 
Turks 'lock, stock and barrel' for a period of well over 300 years.
In fact, prior to the Turks' acquisition of it, following bloody naval 
battles with the Venetians in 1570 AD, the island of Cyprus belonged, 
invariably, to several nations: The Assyrians, the Sumerians, the Phoenicians, 
the Egyptians, the Ottoman Turks, of course in that order, owned it as 
their territory. But, it has never been the possession of the government 
of Greece - not even for one day - in the history of the world. Moreover, 
Cyprus is located 1500 miles from the Greek mainland, but only 40 miles 
from Turkiye's southern coastline.

>And don't bother to reply... I have a wonderful KILL file that takes care
>all of your articles....inlcuding those with the new account (hbm)

Sigh. It has been reported that the Greek Cypriot administration has 
an intense desire for arms and that Greece has made plans to supply 
it with the tanks and armored vehicles it has to destroy in accordance 
with the agreement reached on conventional arms reductions in Europe. 
Meanwhile, Greek and Greek Cypriot officials are reported to have 
planned to take ostentatious measures aimed at camouflaging the 
transfer of these tanks and armored vehicles to southern Cyprus, 
a process that will conflict with the spirit of the agreement on 
conventional arms reduction in Europe.


Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.iranian
From: bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi)
Subject: Re: Mojahedin Attacks
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:51:14 GMT

In article <dfs.703430495@ro> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

>For the sake of any such relatives, I hope not.  I wonder what the Iranian
>government will do to those relatives?

"Virtual genocide"!  

Just kidding.  Such families might be under surveillance.  There are
lots of such families in Iran right now.

>David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,

Behnam Sadeghi
From: rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Ross W. Starkey)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Clarification
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:38:43 GMT
Reply-To: rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Ross W. Starkey)
Distribution: world
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI

Note, this is Ilan U. Woll
You know the rest

Anwar, you had become quite upset with my comment (I think I have it
verbatim) "when will any prominent or any Arab speak out against terrorism on
Jews"  You were correct in your criticism.

Let me clarify what I meant, there is a severe lack, to the extent that you
were the first, of Arabs who were willing to openly and publicly criticize
Arab terrorism against Jews.

Just wanted that to be clear

Ilan U. Woll

Damn the > signs full speed ahead
-- 
Ross Starkey                         "Of course you know, this means WAR." 
rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu        "This whole thing is goony, I shou'da
                                      stood in bed!"  "Gruesome, isn't it?"
FIGHT DICTATORSHIP!  VOTE!!!!                                  --Bugs Bunny
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: WHAT I MEAN!
Date: 6 Apr 92 06:30:11 GMT
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University


In article 16840@usenet.ins.cwru.edu, bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
>
>   When I made a statement about what is actually Jordan, I was
>not precise enough for many of you to know what I meant.  Today
>what we refer to as Jordan contains much more land that could
>be called Palestine than all of Israel.  

Not you too!  This a MYTH.  

>So I feel that the drive
>for a homeland for the Palestinians must include some land that
>is currently called Jordan.  If one does not acknowledge ALL of 
>the historical Palestine, then the drive for a homeland for the
>Palestinians again takes on an anti-Israel hue.  When the drive
>for a Palestinian state does not include land that is currently
>in Jordan, this is not fair to Israel and, by logical extention,
>will never be well received by Israel.

If the self-defined group which today calls itself "The Palestinians"
includes a large number of people whose roots (not just refugee
status) are on the east of the Jordan River, then it is reasonable
that they include that fraction of Jordan in their land claims.
You haven't established the "if" part, so the "then" part is not
yet imperative.    

>[..rest deleted..]

Brendan.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:10994 talk.politics.soviet:3466 soc.culture.greek:3373
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek
Subject: I Am Forced To Disagree With You, 'Jason Friedenberg.'
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:35:00 GMT



<1992Apr15.140854.7257@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
friedenb@gypsum.egr.msu.edu (Jason Friedenberg)

>>So, the Greek educational system is also in a shambles, 'Kotinis.'
>>History shows that within the last 170 years, Greeks played that 
>>game twice: They used Istanbul Patriarch Grigorios in 1822 to 
>>instigate the Morea rebellion that resulted in the massacres of 
>>the Muslim people. Again, the Orthodox Patriarch Constantine V 
>>invited the Russian Czar Nicholas II to invade the Ottoman Empire 
>>'in the name of Jesus,' and save his flock from Ottoman rule. 

>(much of the same deleted here)

>HEY HASAN:
>This is not relevant to talk.politics.mideast, 

I am forced to disagree with you. By your posting, you are 
self-evidently ignorant of what is going on in the Middle East.

>please stick it somewhere else!!!!

Much as I try, I doubt I have reached your 'somewhere else.'

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Colonel Ghadaffi
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:18:17 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.152932.22903@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>Since Libya's ruler Gahdaffi is back in the headlines again, maybe it is
>appropriate to post a quote of his from 1969, taken from Mohammed
>Heickal's book "The Road to Ramadan" (p. 76):
>
>"..On one occasion when Nasser was outlining to him the relative strengths
>of the Arabs and Israel in tanks, aircraft, and so on, Gahdaffi burst in:
>'No, no: we should go straight to an overall war and liquidate Israel".
>
>Anyone knows of more recent quotes?
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
"The battle with Israel must be such that, after it, Israel will case to
exist."
President Muammar Qaddafi of Libya
al-Usbu al-Arabi (Beirut)
quoted by Algiers Radio, Nov 12, 1973

"This racist entity in the Middle East must be destroyed and it will be 
destroyed one day."
Mansour Rashid Kikhia
Libyan Ambassador to the UN
Statement to the Security Council, Mar 24, 1976.

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Alex Odeh , again... (was Re: U.S. Aid)
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:48:18 GMT
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ

In article <1992Apr9.190330.9817@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> 22387IA@MSU writes:

	[ most of article deleted - dlm ]

# You have to look at all these things, over several years, in the context of
# international relations and pressures and interests.  No country has a perfect
# working justuce system. I am sure there are many criminals in Western Europe
# U.S. or Arab countries that are not prosecuted, or cannot be prosecuted. I
# would just mention Nazi war criminals, Abu Abbas (Syria), Abu Nidal, the
# Dir Yassin gang (Israel).  In the context of the current drive for peace in the
                   ^^^^^^

	Unless you insist on parroting the lie originated by the Hagana
and now repeated by many, you must have meant (Arab) Here.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@che13.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Iran bombs "guerilla" bases in Iraq
Reply-To: hernlem@che13.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:01:48 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.000323.1193@muddcs.claremont.edu>,
gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu) writes:
> In article <1992Apr6.202815.2675@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU
(Brad Hernlem) writes:
> 
> >> [David F. Skoll's stuff deleted...sorry David]
> 
> 
> I have substituted PLO for the MKO (amond other relavent)changes:
>  watch this....
> 
> >. I believe that the Palestinian Liberation Organization is a violent
> >oppresive party which has its own interest placed well above that of the
> >Palestinian people. On the occasions that the PLO has infiltrated Israel, it
> >is my understanding that not [all*] the local villagers have embraced
them as
> >liberators nor cooperated with them and consequently the PLO have killed
> >many of them as Israeli sympathizers. . .  The violence that they
carried out
> >against Israeli embassies and missions throughout Europe and South America
> >and Asia,  the taking of hostages at various times for a
> >while, the killing of Israeli Athletes,etc. is testimony to the nature of
>  this organization. 
> 
> 	[Stuff deleted]. 
> 
> * I added 'all' to make the statment more truthful.
> 
> 
> You see the MKO and the PLO are bery similar in tactics, yet I have
never seen
> Brad criticize the PLO.  I guess since Israel isn't the target of the MKO,
> it's bad.
> 
> 								-Manu
> 
> >Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            
> 
> Do unto others before they do unto you.
> I'd rather be in Paris than here.

Manu, I am opposed to any group which promotes violent revolution as a
means to accomplish its objectives. I do not think that you have made a
fair comparison because actions of the Israeli government indicate that
it is at war with a greater segment of Palestinian society than merely
the extremists. The Israeli government frequently uses curfews and
apparently random attacks as well as other forms of collective
punishment which affect many more people than merely the "extremists".
Israel uses to the actions of the few to excuse greater violence on the many.

Brad Hernlem

 
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:10942 soc.culture.indian:14631
From: martillo@stars.clearpoint.com (Joachim Martillo)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: ADC CHALLENGES WALL ST JOURNAL
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:22:36 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Clearpoint Inc., Hopkinton, MA

In article <1992Apr14.210610.173162@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.181316.13585@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:

>>    The article did mention that OAKAR BOUNCED 213 CHECKS, and made 
>>    it to the list of the twenty two worst "Rubbergate" offenders.
>>    She was also the chairman of a subcommittee that oversaw the
>>    House Bank's personnel policies.  

>Let's see...Larry Smith, Stephen Solarz are both also on the list
>(Smith may have *just* missed the 22, but Solarz bounced hundreds...way, 
>WAY MORE that Oakar).  They are the staunchest supporters of Israel in 
>the House.  Just what is your point?

Actually, Solarz is also one of the staunchest supporters of India and
the effort to liberate Kuwait.  Solarz is Jewish, but his political
behavior stems from a fundamental commitment to internationalism and not
from some sort of primitive tribalism.  Israel has some major problems
and the very existence of India as a nation state is an offense against
human decency, but Israel and India have historically managed to present
themselves in a manner which can appeal to internationalists. 

Arab/Islamic oriented regimes by way of contrast are invariably
completely offensive to political figures with an internationalist
inclination.  And of course, Arab/Islamic oriented regimes and
organizations commit far more heinous and murderous crimes against Arab
people than Israel and the Zionists have ever committed or dreamed of
committing against Arab people. 

Oaker's role in oversight of the Bank's personnel policies makes her
check-bouncing perhaps rather more noteworthy than that of other
Congressmen. 

>Oh, and please refrain from calling me a 'check-bouncer-apologist'
>a la your Sheikh Zayed escapades :-)

>Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student

Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami
From: pnmideast@igc.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Palestine Walk
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:02:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: igc.1483500204
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1483500204:000:910
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!pnmideast    Apr 11 16:02:00 1992


From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Palestine Walk

/* Written  2:39 pm  Apr 11, 1992 by pasny in cdp:mideast.action */
/* ---------- "Palestine Walk" ---------- */
			  ***HOLD THE DATE***
		     ***SATURDAY, JUNE 6, 1992***

      Palestine Aid Society of America sponsors its 4th annual
Walkathon for the People of Palestine.  The event will take place
throughout 20 cities inthe U.S. and Canada. Saturday June 6th
marks the 25th year of Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza
Strip, and Jerusalem.  Funds raised in the Walkathon are sent to
the Occupied Territories to support medical relief, women's
economic projects, and families impoverished by loss of
employment.
      DON'T JUST TALK, WALK!!
      Your participation will help further the struggle of the
 Palestinian people for self-determination and a just peace.
 Contact us at PEACENET address "pasny" or phone 212/385-4233 for
 more information!!
 .
From: RPR1ZAK@TECHNION.BITNET (Uri Zakai)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Death Squads in Occupied Territories
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:42:01 GMT
Organization: TECHNION - Israel Institute of Technology.

In article <1992Apr6.174315.25246@ncsu.edu>, hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
Hernlem) says:
>
>The following is an editorial from the Arab News (March 29, 1992):
>
>Faisal Husseini, one of the main advisers to the Palestinian delegation
>to the Middle East peace talks, claims that 18 Palestinians have been
>summarily executed in the occupied territories in the past three months
>by the police and by Shin Bet, the Israeli security organization. Six of
>them were executed in the last week. Moreover, according to Husseini,
>these are not random killings. The murdered Palestinians were
>deliberately targeted. They were young intifada activists on an Israeli
>hit list. Most, he says, were shot "trying to escape", others were taken
>by the Israelis and then shot secretly.
> ..............
>Such claims are not new. Nor is it difficult to believe them
> ..............
>The problem with death squads is that it is extremely difficult to prove
>their existence.

dont you just love it .
"they exist, its very easy to belive so , however i have no evidence ."
well done brad - you just won the t.p.m award for reliability
the undercover units in the gaza strip and yehuda and somron are well known
and have no special fire orders - they cant execute people or they will
go to prison.
since you speak of a unit you have no evidence about - i take it you
are not talking about those units , can you give us a hint what you
are talking about ?

>The United Nations already believes that the Israelis used death squads
>against their opponents in Lebanon in the early 1980s.

i must have missed that one - please tell me brad - when did the un announce
its belief in the existence of israeli death squads ?

>As for the counterallegations that those who have been murdered were
>themselves killers, responsible for the deaths of the 462 Palestinians
>shot for alleged collaboration with the Israelis, it is tantamount to an
>admission that the squads exist. But that is not the important point.
>The fact is that these intifada activists were alive when they were
>captured. If there have been summary executions, as it appears almost
>certain, it proves the lie that Israeli society is one based on justice
>and human rights.

lets go over it point by point.

you claim that the israeli army executed 18 palestinians in the last 3 monthes,
well palestinians executed 55 other palestinians since january 1 .

i guess even you would agree that makes them a worth while target for arrest.

i didnt see any admission that they were executed - but i guess that if you say
 that the fact they were executed is "almost certain" with such a great
conviction you must have a reliable source - please share it with us ?

untill then please - dont make any observation on the israeli society
thanku

uri zakai
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: U.S. Aid to Israel????
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:28:47 GMT
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <dfs.702498925@keiko>, dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
> In <1992Apr3.203933.13039@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
> Hernlem) writes:
> 
> [ A hysterical anti-Israel piece with lots of unsubstatiated stuff as
> well as a few outright lies.]
> 
> Brad, I'm surprised you'd stoop to such levels as this.  Just where
> was this "article" originally published?  It sounds like something
> the B-CPU boys would love to take credit for.
> 
> --
>                      |         | "Step up and shake the hand
> David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
> |_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
>  / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
>
_____|________________________________________________________________________

I found this article posted to soc.culture.lebanon but it looks exactly
like an article which I saw published in one of the recent issues of The
Washington Report On Middle East Affairs. I don't know whether it has
been published elsewhere. I am not familiar with the writer of the
story. I don't see any reason not to believe what she says she has
personally witnessed, however. 

This is definitely an OPINION piece and not a NEWS article.

Brad Hernlem
From: nsohrabi@athena.mit.edu (Naghmeh Sohrabi)
Subject: Iraqi casualties
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 01:54:18 GMT

Hello again.
Thanks to those who helped me out with my previous request.
I now have another one.
Does anyone know what the most accurate figures, on the number of iraqi casualties
during  the  Gulf war, are?

Sincerely,
Naghmeh
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: U.S. Aid to Israel????
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:03:02 GMT

In <1992Apr6.142847.18617@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
Hernlem) writes:

>In article <dfs.702498925@keiko>, dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
>> In <1992Apr3.203933.13039@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
>> Hernlem) writes:
>> 
>> [ A hysterical anti-Israel piece with lots of unsubstatiated stuff as
>> well as a few outright lies.]
>> 
>> Brad, I'm surprised you'd stoop to such levels as this.  Just where
>> was this "article" originally published?  It sounds like something
>> the B-CPU boys would love to take credit for.

>I found this article posted to soc.culture.lebanon but it looks exactly
>like an article which I saw published in one of the recent issues of The
>Washington Report On Middle East Affairs. I don't know whether it has
>been published elsewhere. I am not familiar with the writer of the
>story. I don't see any reason not to believe what she says she has
>personally witnessed, however. 

I see no reason to believe it.  The article was filled with fervently
religious opinions, melodramatic descriptions, and plain sensationalism.

>This is definitely an OPINION piece and not a NEWS article.

No kidding. :-)  Maybe in her OPINION she saw what she described.
Or maybe in her dreams.

There are certainly enough valid reasons to criticize Israeli policy
without having to invent any, or to whip up religious fervor.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________