HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Borodin (was: Dvorak)
Keywords: Dvorak
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:49:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.211443.2475@osf.org> dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
:
>I was going to stay out of this, 'cos I only have a disrecommendation, but
>I *detest* the Cleveland recording.  I even tried to get my money back, and
>ended up giving the thing away (which is, I suppose, rather a dubious form
>of charity).
:

Do you think I can donate _Macedonian Air Drumming_ to this person?  Can
I make the donation anonymously?  (Not anymore, I guess.)

So what are the worst records ever made ... ("Records to die of"?)





Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Mozart REQUIEM
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 04:08:00 GMT

In article <74jmyjc.vlad@netcom.com> 
vlad@netcom.com (Vladimir Kuznetsov) writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.120720.7785@vax.oxford.ac.uk> 
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>>In article <1992Jul22.160953.21552@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu>, 
colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) writes:
>>> Does anyone know of a good recording of this work?
>>> Does Telarc have a recording with Shaw and the Atlanta S.O.?
>>> 
>>One to avoid is by Hogwood (sudden thought: Help! Is it?) 
with the Acacdamy of
>>ancient Music orchestra and Men's Voices, 
the boys of Westminster Cathedral on
>i  ... I don't want all these nasty critisisms repeated here ...

>This posting is a good example of when professional (or somebody who 
>consider himself as one) thinks that he knows what is the right way 
>to perform given piece of music and therefore gets very angry when
>somebody does it differently.

Really?  I don't see the anger -- except in your response.

Nor do I see any discussion of the issues in your posting -- but you did
delete the specific points made by others, and substituted them with
your judgment: nasty.

>I can say only that I heard a number of preformances in last 25 years
>live and on records. This one (with Hogwood) I would qualify as the 
>best I heard and without any hesitation recommend to anybody
>who looks for good recording of this piece.

Noted.  Noted the first time, in fact.  But what's wrong with discussion
of the issues surrounding this most problematic of Mozart's works?  We
*still* can't decide on the text of the piece, let alone how to create a
performing version; since the original query asked about an orchestra
and chorus that generally do standard versions, it was quite reasonable
to warn against a highly non-standard performance that would only leave
the listener confused when they went to hear it elsewhere.  

Now, aside from the fact that some of the technical things in the
performance--the reasoning used to dismiss certain movements, the
stylistically wacko "Amen" fugue, etc.--have been thoroughly criticized
and generally rejected by LOTS of musicians, professional and amateur
alike, I can only wonder why you have to use such a snippy tone, and
can't even bear to repost the arguments OR provide a few of your own.

Roger
From: jseboldt@pnet51.orb.mn.org (John Seboldt)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: When bad audiences happen to good composers
Date: 27 Jul 92 05:25:12 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

djd33237@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Denny d'Alelio ) writes:
>carnes@sparky.eecs.umich.edu (Richard Carnes) writes:
>
><Deleltions>
>
>>One reason for this, I suppose, is that when composers write primarily
>>for an audience that is expected to give the piece multiple hearings
>>and perhaps even study the score, they tend to write complex and dense
>>music that does not reveal its secrets except after many hearings.
>
>Performed mainly at composer's forums.
>
>>The result is often music that, being rewarding to analyze and study,
>>is fascinating to composers, theorists, and many performers, but which
>>is rather opaque on *first* hearing, after which many listeners decide
>>that one hearing is enough.
>

In the early 1980's, Gunther Schuller was running around criticizing the "new
music establishment" for being stuck in a network of politics and
grantsmanship that kept them out of any real contact with audiences.  One
example was the Center for New 
Music at my grad school, The University of Iowa -- a respectable organization,
excellent music making, but yes, out of touch.  And that very school sponsored
Schuller's talk about this very topic!  The school -- AND Schuller -- were
promoting honesty at least, while biting the hand that feeds them!
: John Seboldt...Minneapolis, MN...As a ham, K0JD...as a human,       :
: right-brained yet right-handed...as a musician, techie yet creative :
:   UUCP: {crash, kksys, petrus, quest}!orbit!pnet51!jseboldt         :
:   ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!jseboldt@nosc.mil                        :
:   INET: jseboldt@pnet51.orb.mn.org                                  :
From: l_n_@ducvax.auburn.edu (N.Lakshminarayanan,Auburn Univ. AL36849)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Clavieruebung
Date: 23 Jul 92 02:02:41 GMT

Hi netters! I have been reading this group on and off and find
it interesting reading.
	I am from India and have a good background in Indian
classical music. For the past four years I have been here I have
been listening to western classical music--mainly Bach and
Beethoven. Recently I have been listening to music from
Bach's Clavieruebung vol.3 played by Marie-Claire Alain on the
organ. There is a piece titled "Aus tiefer Not sehrei'ich zu
dir" , BWV686. I am afraid I don't follow the music down to each note,
but from what I do follow, I should say that it is other-wordly, and
it staggers the imagination to think that such musicality is possible.
	But it is only 7 or 8 minutes long. My questions are:
What was the intention of such works?(I know the title translates
as "keyboard practice").
Are there other works for organ of the same musical stature?(I have
heard the St.Anne Fugue from the same collection).
	Well, I suppose I can research this myself. I will, but I
would also like to hear from people who have heard or played music
from Clavieruebung v.3.

Thanks.
Regards,
N.Lakshminarayanan
Division of Mathematics
Auburn University, AL 36830.
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Most annyoying use of "Carmina Burana" yet
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:42:51 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <5617@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>, ewing@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (David Ewing) writes:
> Okay, we're all tired of hearing "Carmina Burana" in films, but
> get a load of this.  The local NBC news affiliate here in San Diego
> has just started airing a promo for their nightly news using this
> piece (as background for lots of shots of their ever vigilant news
> team looking very serious as they uncover the news).  This is being
> aired every 20 minutes or so during the Olympics. Aaarrrgggghhh!!! 
> 
Perhaps someone else can confirm or deny this rumour, but I read in a newspaper
review that Michael Jackson was using Carmina Burana to come on stage to during
his latest tour.  Not that I'm really bothered, you understand, but it did
strike me that that might be the musical highlight of the evening.


-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lampson@tellabs.com (Dave Lampson)
Subject: Re: Borodin (was: Dvorak)
Organization: Tellabs, Inc., IL
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:25:13 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.212126.3555@u.washington.edu> dcoder@u.washington.edu writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.221607.5217@tellab5.tellabs.com> lampson@tellabs.com  
>(Dave Lampson) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul17.141214.7912@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  
>>jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank) writes:
>>>While we're on the subject, does any of you have a favorite reading of
>>>Borodin's Quartet No. 2?  I have the one done by the Emerson Quartet which
>>>I'm very fond of, but I'm interested in alternative interpretations 
>>>(especially any which are paired with his No. 1).  Thanks.

>>EMI                         Melodiya                  CDC7477952     (1) 

>..
>Is this a reissue of the old Melodiya/Odyssey recording of #1 with the original
>Borodin Quartet (with Messrs. Alexandrov, Dubinsky, et al.)? A more recent  
>recording got a lesser review as I recall.


I believe it's the later version;  Here's the lineup:

Violin                       KOPELMAN, Mikhail
Violin                       ABRAMENKOV, Andrei
Viola                        SHEBALIN, Dmitri
Cello                        BERLINSKY, Valentin

There was also a release on La Chant du Monde of a Melodiya recording, which
received negative reviews.  I seem to remember it was the earlier one that 
got the less favorable reviews, but perhaps that was based primarily on sound 
quality.

-- 

Dave
lampson@tellabs.com

For detailed lists of Recommended Classical CDs, Basic Repertoire and Buying
Guide access cs.uwp.edu (131.210.1.4) by anonymous FTP, or email me for info.

Contribute to the rec.music.classical biography project!  Email me your bio!
From: ucap22w@ucl.ac.uk (Martin S T Watts)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beethoven's violin concerto
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:29:13 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

kpl@philabs.philips.com (K P Lee) writes:


>In article <1992Jul29.215158.271971@cs.cmu.edu>, acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby) writes:
>|> I like the aforementioned Schneiderhan recording.  It's on CD along with
>|> the two Romances.  I can't for the life of me remember who does the
>|> Romances, but it's somebody *really* famous.  It's a budget DG disc -- an


>It's DG 429 179-2.
>The pianist is Daniel Barenboim with the English Chamber Orchestra.

>The Romances are played by Pinchas Zuckerman, with the London
>Philharmonica Orchestra conducted by D. Barenboim.

Eh? How did Barenboim get in on the act?
I think the violinist for the Romances on the budget DG disc is David Oistrakh.

Martin Watts.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bil@cmn16.Stanford.EDU (Bill Schottstaedt)
Subject: Re: Composition
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 15:00:06 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.204019.13093@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu>  
colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) writes:
> 
> Are there any composers out there on the net?
> 
> colby leider
> colby@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu
> 
Yes.

(And I like Schnabel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: daniel@netcom.com (Sam Daniel)
Subject: Re: Smetana [was: Borodin (was: Dvorak)]
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 04:51:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Keywords: Dvorak

lampson@tellabs.com (Dave Lampson) writes:

>In article <1992Jul24.215210.16147@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
>>
>>What about a recommendation for Smatana's quartets (both of them). I can't
>>find many recordings of both on a single cd, although the Medici (?) quartet
>>have a recording on NimBus. 
>>This gets only 1 1/2 stars in the Penguin guide. Would people agree that
>>Medici's playing is not too good, oor would this be a reasonable choice?

>The Medici is just a bit uneven.  I really like the Smetana Quartet (makes
>sense doesn't it Borodin Q. for Borodin, Smetana Q. for Smetana)...

The Lindsay Quartet has both on a single CD on the ASV label.  I
believe this was on Gramophone's Recordings of the Year list.  Highly
recommended.

They've also recorded Janacek's string quartets, and have started what
appears to be a complete Dvorak cycle, all on ASV.
-- 
*
*
Sam Daniel          *   UUCP (Smart):  daniel@netcom.com
Paramax Systems     *         (Dumb):  {...}!uunet!netcom!daniel
1001 W. Maude Ave.  *          Voice:  1-408-235-2661
Sunnyvale, CA 95131 *     Disclaimer:  It's only my opinion, but it's
                                       a DAMN good one...
From: jseboldt@pnet51.orb.mn.org (John Seboldt)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Someone requested help with sight-reading... mail failed
Date: 26 Jul 92 22:40:16 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

Really "on fire", eh?

Or, did his music catch fire ... or his score?  There is a difference!

: John Seboldt...Minneapolis, MN...As a ham, K0JD...as a human,       :
: right-brained yet right-handed...as a musician, techie yet creative :
:   UUCP: {crash, kksys, petrus, quest}!orbit!pnet51!jseboldt         :
:   ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!jseboldt@nosc.mil                        :
:   INET: jseboldt@pnet51.orb.mn.org                                  :
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hsmoliar+@DB1.SPEECH.CS.CMU.EDU (Harold Smoliar)
Subject: PSO European Tour [here we go again]
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 00:10:51 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Originator: hsmoliar@DB1.SPEECH.CS.CMU.EDU



OK folks, the Pittsburgh Symphony rides again.  This time we have three basic
programs.  Program A:  Wagner/Maazel--The Ring Without Words
	   Program A2:  above Wagner plus Overture and Venusberg music from
			Tannhauser
           Program B:  Gershwin--Porgy and Bess[w/Wilhelmenia Fernandez as
			Bess]  This is a cut down version but includes a lot
			of the good stuff.
	   Program C:  Mahler Symphony #2

The schedule:
Saturday 8 August, Palacio de Festivales de Cantabria, Santander, Spain--A
Sunday 9 August, same location--B
Tuesday 11 August, Teatro Romano, Merida, Spain--B
Wednesday 12 August, Teatro Maestranza, Sevilla, Spain--A
Thursday 13 August, same location--C
Saturday 15 August, Claustro Santo Domingo, Pollensa, Mallorca, Spain--A
Tuesday 18 August, Friedrich V. Thiersch Saal, Wiesbaden, Germany--A2
Thursday 20 August, Alte Oper, Frankfurt, Germany--C
Friday 21 August, same location--B
Saturday 22 August, Maison de Congress, Montreux, Switzerland--A2
Sunday 23 August, Palazzo Dei Congressi, Stresa, Italy--A2
Monday 24 August, Arena di Verona, Verona, Italy--B
Wednesday 26 August, hall to be announced, Catania, Sicily, Italy--B
Thursday 27 August, Palazzo dei Celestini, Lecce, Italy--Dvorak Sym 7, Mozart
							Sym 39, Tannhauser
Friday 28 August, Teatro Regio, Torino, Italy--B


Questions or comments, please don't hesitate to write.  We depart on the 5th of
August and my wife and I will travel to Paris after for a few days before 
returning to Pittsburgh on the 2nd of September.

All concerts will be conducted by Lorin Maazel.

Hope that I will meet some of you on the tour--don't hesitate to come up and 
say hello.

Harold 
hsmoliar@db1.speech.cs.cmu.edu
From: givler@bermuda (Greg Givler)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beethoven's violin concerto
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:59:58 GMT
Organization: Another Amiga UNIX System

In article <1992Jul29.070755.11948@ichips.intel.com> mehul@pdx212 (Mehul Dave) writes:
>Hi,
>
>I just started reading this newsgroup and have found that many people
>seem to know a whole lot about classical music so this may be a good
>place to ask this question.  I recently heard a cassette recording of
>Beethoven's concerto for Violin and Orchestra in D major Op.61.  The
>violinist was Wolfgang Schneiderhan and the orchestra was Berlin
>Philharmonic conducted by Eugene Jochum.  I have a few questions about
>this concerto
>
>1. Is this the only violin concerto Beethoven wrote?  I ask this
>   because it did not say Violin concerto number 1 or 2 etc.
>

I could be wrong about this, but it is the only concerto for 
Violin and Orchestra that I know of. Beethoven did write several
sonatas for Violin and Piano.

>2. In the cassette flap, I found the following:
>
>   "Cadenzas adapted for the violin by Wolfgang Schneiderhan from those
>    Beethoven composed for his arrangement of this concerto for piano
>    and orchestra".
>
>  Did Beethoven intend this concerto to be played on piano?  I must
>  admit, to me the violin seemed perfect but then I haven't heard it on
>  piano.
>

Beethoven, re-arranged it for Piano, later. I am not sure why, probably
to make some quick bucks. I have never heard this version, but since
I love the concerto, I guess I should pick it up someday.

>3. Can you recommend any good CD recordings of this concerto?  I like
>   the one I have on cassette but I want to see if I can find a better
>   one.  I realize that different people have different idea of a
>   "good" recording but I'd like to get your opinion on your favorite
>   and what you like about it.

Personally I like Perlman, I know he has recorded it, but I don't know
with whom. Presently I do not own a copy of this concerto, but it is 
on my list of things to buy.

>
>Thanks.
>
>--Mehul Dave--
>(mehul@ichips.intel.com)

Greg

-- 
Greg Givler                 | "If you're not going to kill me,
Commodore Product Assurance | I have things to do." - From Darkman
givler@cbmvax.commodore.com |
===============================================================================
From: norbeck@castor.cs.bucknell.edu (nancy norbeck `93)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Branford Marsalis
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:00:53 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, Pa.



A few weeks ago I picked up Branford Marsalis: Romances for Saxophone
totally by chance at a used CD store.  I'd never heard anything from it
but I figured it sounded interesting, at least.  Well, suffice it to
say that my roommates have trouble getting me to take the disc out of
my CD player.  It is truly one of the most beautiful compilations I've
ever heard.

Which brings me to my question:  Has Branford Marsalis done anything
else in the classical vein since (or even before) this disc?  And if
so, is it as good?  I'd really love to hear more..

Thanks much..

Nancy

--
|Nancy Norbeck       | "I know that look."  "What look?"  "The look that says |
|....................|  you're going to be impetuous, vengeful, irresponsible,|
|norbeck@bucknell.edu|  and *stupid*!" --Lady Jane and Lovejoy, "Death and    |
|....................|     Venice"                                            |
From: knudsen@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Knud Knudsen)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:19:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Is it Ludwig van, Van, von or Von Beethoven?
Organization: HP Labs, High Speed Electronics Dept., Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical

And since "v" in dutch as well as in german is pronounced as "f"
it is pronounced "fan". Not as the thing you move air with - shorter.
                                                Knud Knudsen
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: alan@highlite.uucp (Alan McConnell)
Subject: Re: Feminist Musicology
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 14:05:56 GMT

bonness@cae.wisc.edu (Matthew Bonness) writes:

>Can anyone help me with the origins of a quote
>I read in the New York Times - it's about a 
>musicologist at the University of Minnesota
>who finds in the second movement of Beethoven's
>Ninth Symphony only "the throttling murderous
>rage of a rapist incapable of attaining release."

>Who is this and where did she say that? It can't
>be Susan McClary, can it? I have her book,
>_Feminine Endings: Music, Gender, and Sexuality_,
>in which she is nowhere near as harsh towards
>Beethoven.

>Thanks.
	It seems that any important striving toward a more liberal
	and more humane society - can "feminism" be described in
	any other terms? - will contain, as outliers, some
	rabid types.  This comes along with being human, I guess.
	Let's not knock feminism by citing these outliers(general
	adjuration, no suggestion that Mr Bonness was about to 
	do any such thing)
Best wishes, Alan McConnell
-- 
Alan McConnell             "What wondrous life is this I lead!
Pixel Analysis              Ripe apples drop about my head . ."
From: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM (James Langdell)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Beethoven 4-hands works (was Re: Beethoven Opus & Woo)
Date: 22 Jul 1992 19:01:13 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bassclar

John Turley recommended one of Beethoven's Opus-less works:
the theme and variations for piano four hands, WoO 67.
If that's the set I recall (the one that isn't based on
a Goethe song setting), I'll add to that recommendation.
The final variation has some astonishing voicings, even
by Beethoven's standards, though those passages might fit
into Petrushka just fine.

I've not turned up any CDs of Beethoven's four-hand piano
works.  Are there any, or at least some of the works tucked
away on four-hand anthologies?

--James Langdell      jamesc@eng.sun.com
  Sun Microsystems    Mountain View, Calif.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Anti-censorship T-shirts
In-reply-to: fiddle@midiline.la.ca.us's message of Sat, 18 Jul 92 00:43:12 PDT
Organization: pubs
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:44:08 CDT

Frank Hoppe writes:

   I've found a source for T-shirts that say, "I BUY MUSIC FOR MINORS."
   The Washington Music Industry Coalition is fighting recent restrictive 
   legislation and is selling these shirts as fundraisers. ...

There's an embedded ideology among right-thinking people (among whom I
normally hope to include myself) that any and all restrictions on
expression are in all ways wrong.  I wish such people would actually
listen to some of what is being issued today, and in turn is being
listened to (repeatedly) by impressionable adolescents, and not with the
detached irony that high-brow liberals bring to popular arts.  Before
you give a blanket endorsement to free speech in all forms, listen to
some of the cuts glorifying rape, incest, even murder, torture,
dismemberment.  And I mean *glorifying*.  Consider that one of Guns 'n'
Roses publicity graphics (emblazoned on T-shirts and so forth) shows a
sexy woman who has just been raped, lying dazed on a sidewalk.  The
clear meaning of the graphic is that, all told, she enjoyed what just
happened (see it before you disagree with my interpretation).  Don't
worry folks, I'm not suggesting CENSORSHIP in the old form, nor am I
anything close to a fundamentalist (or even a Christian, for that
matter)...but I think something has gone seriously wrong with a society
that entertains itself this way.  I don't know what should be done about
it, but I think it's dangerous.  And I'm not amused by the message "I
buy music for minors", if it implies that it's OK for adolescents to
fill their heads with this stuff.  Of course there's NO connection
between violent art and actual violence, even though the two have risen
exactly in parallel in the last few decades.  Sorry to be so incorrect,
and all...maybe having a wife and a daughter makes it hard to take rape
lightly.

Chris Brewster
From: lung@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Terence Lung)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Violin showpiece during Olympic gymnast's floor routine
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:51:40 GMT
Reply-To: lung@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Terence Lung)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

hhh@basil.lcs.mit.edu (Henry Houh)
>Did anyone wathching the Olympics (women's gymnastics) Tuesday night
>(around 11:15 PM EST) recognize the violin showpiece used during a US
>gymnast's floor routine?

If it's the same one they played over and over again on Sunday and
Monday nights, it was an excerpt from the third movement of Paganini's
second violin concerto--La Campanella (the Bell).

Terence