From: cwilson@gssec.bt.co.uk (Colin Wilson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Accent and Dialect, the politics thereof
Date: 15 Nov 92 17:56:04 GMT
Organization: BT

In article <23848.9211121140@thor.cf.ac.uk>, spxsjm@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr S J Morris 92) writes:
|> In this longish discussion about "Scots is a separate language" vs.
|> "Scots is not a separate language", I don't yet recall seeing an example
|> of Scots which would let us come to some informed conclusion on the
|> topic. Could somebody who speaks Scots please translate a bit of prose
|> (this article, for example) into Scots, so we can see what it looks
|> like. If it's incomprehensible to a non-Scots speaker, then Scots is a
|> language - otherwise, it's not.

I'm sorry to say that the criterion of mutual intelligibility in speech
is a dubious one for determining whether or not two tongues amount to
separate languages, and that of mutual intelligibility in writing even
more so, as much depends on the system of spelling used. To illustrate
the point, consider Manx, Irish and Scottish Gaelic. It's fairly well
accepted that Manx is closer to Scottish Gaelic than Irish is, but a
person who can read Scottish Gaelic will be able to understand written
Irish far more easily than Manx, because Manx has an orthography based
mostly on English rather than a traditional Gaelic one.

As for speech, there are numerous instances of pairs of languages which
are mutually intelligible but which are still considered to be separate
languages, sometimes even within the territory of a single state: Czech
and Slovak, for instance, are more similar to one another than are
Scots and English. (I have even heard it said that there is a fair
degree of mutual intelligibility between Polish and Czech, in speech at
least). Other pairs of languages that have a good degree of mutual
intelligibility are: Russian/Ukrainian, Finnish/Estonian,
Bulgarian/Macedonian, and then of course there are
Norwegian/Danish/Swedish.

Mutual intelligibility of languages can also depend on the subject matter
under discussion. For instance, I have never studied Spanish, but on the
occasion when I was given a specification for a software system, in Spanish,
to read I was able to understand nearly all of it from my knowledge of French,
which I speak and read competently. French and Spanish would not be considered
to be a single language, though. By the same token, it would show little
to translate some of the kind of discourse that we see in NewsNet into Scots:
there certainly would be differences, but not ones that would illustrate
the differences that exist at the level of everyday conversation.

As a better illustration, I am attaching some instances of published
writing in Scots. The first is an extract from "The Poacher" by G. K.
Murray, and the second is taken from "The Visitor" by Sheena Blackhall.
Both of these writers are from the rural north-east, and they write in
the vernacular Scots of that area. (Note, for instance, where Murray
says "meen" where most of Scotland would say "muin", and likewise
"fite" instead of "white": or again, where Blackhall has "ilkie"
instead of "ilka").

	"Weel, this wis unco bait for a chiel lik oor laird. He wadna
	halt till he wad be in on the ploy himsel and so it cam aboot
	the twa o them set oot thegither that weety forenicht. Skelpin
	on throu bog myrtle til the heather, the meen wis weel up and
	scuddin clear o the fite oo or they wun ower the linn. Teetin
	syne fae ahin the growth they could mak oot twa fishers.
	Fishers! Aye maybe, easy aneuch tae twig their gamie, and them
	raikin far ower the peel... bit the laird wis raxin geylies far
	forrit for Donal's likin, and jist as he wis aboot tae yark him
	back, on a suddenty the laird wis thrashin and sklyterin aboot
	on the weet girss, syne ower he slippit tae land wi a muckle
	dunt richt in the middle o a stout sauch buss."

                         
                                 ***

	"Suddenly, a grippin pain raked her sides, takkin her braith awaa.
	She grippit the table, knottin her nieves ticht agin it. As if a
	dam had brukken, bluid treetled damply doon her thigh - the first
	show, that weemen spak o. There wis nae gaun back - she wis tint
	in a derk tunnel - like it or nae, there wis only ae wye oot. Plenty
	o time yet... wait til the pains wis regular, the midwife had said.
	Mechanically, she packed her hospital bag, cannie and neat, reddin
	things up. Maddie hated a sotter - aathing cut and dried, that wis
	her wye.
	
	She widna alert the neibours. Nane o their business - coorse,
	ill-thochtit, ill-spoken brutes... rely on naebodie but
	hersel.  Anither raxin cloor o pain brocht panic tae her lips.
	She bit it back. Weemin hae bairns ilkie day... in Africa, they
	hae them staunin up in the parks, as easy as kykin. Oor
	Faither, which art in Heiven, mak the pain stop."


Lastly, to illustrate a different style of Scots, here is a passage
from the Bible, that I think most readers will have seen in one
language or another.  The style here does not show the characteristics
of any particular dialect.

	"About this time, the Emperor Augustus pat furth an edick ordeinin
	at aa the fowk i the haill warld suid be registrate. This wis whan
	Quirinius wis Governor o Syria, an it wis the first time at siccan
	a thing hed been dune. Sae aabodie gaed tae be registrate, ilkane
	til his ain toun, Joseph amang the lave."
	
	He belanged til the stock an faimlie o Dauvit, an sae it wis
	tae Dauvit's toun, Bethlehem in Judea, at he he gaed doun frae
	Nazareth in Galilee for tae gie in his name, takkin Mary, at
	wis haundfastit til him, wi him. She wis boukin gin this: an
	whan they war in Bethlehem, she cam til her time and brocht
	hame her first-born son. She swealed the bairn in a barrie and
	beddit him in a heck, sin there wis nae room for them intil the
	inn."


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