HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mbreen@sdacs.ucsd.edu (Michael Breen)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Marriage crap
Date: 28 Aug 92 23:03:54 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdacs.ucsd.edu

I can't believe some of the things that were said here regarding wedding
'obligation' of those in the wedding party.  Is it really all that important
to 'keep with tradition' if it trashes long standing relationships?  Gee, I
hope not.  I think Miss Manners et. al. are full of **it.

Communicate!  If you are invited to be in a wedding party, it is an honor
and a privilege, but it is also the best gift you can give the wedding couple,
and (IMHO) it should be the only gift you give them.  Talk to the bride/groom
and let them know if you think that renting/buying/sewing all that stuff is
either uncalled for or simply out of your budget.  If you are both truly
communicating, and this is a problem, you may be out of the wedding party,
but there should be no hard feelings.

Tradition is to be overcome.  Have the wedding *you* want and are comfortable
with.  Give the gift of participation *you* want and are comfortable with.
As with many situations in life, if the other party involved isn't happy
or won't accept your opinion, and you can't negotiate a resolution, how
the hell have you remained friends so far anyway?

Sorry, anger isn't good for the synapses.

Michael Breen
singing and philosophizing
(and celebrating 4 years of wedded bliss and not-so-bliss today!)
From: burke@cs.purdue.EDU (Byron Burke)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Advice on responsibilities of Best Man
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:33:10 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <2386@unet.UUCP> linda@wendy.uucp (Linda Hill) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.190237.1137@clpd.kodak.com> kirkpatr@alc.serum.kodak.com (Dan Kirkpatrick (x37370)) writes:
>>
>>Could someone tell me the responsibilities of being a Best Man?
>>
>>I know that the best man should arrange the Bachelor party, and do the 
>>toast... but anything else?  Gift other than wedding gift?  Other duties?
>
>Decorate the car!  You can be nice about this too.  Use some kind of
>paint that won't hurt the car (just do the windows) 

I used liquid shoe polish to paint the windows of a car for a wedding I
was in.  It worked quite well -- you could see the writing from a distance
and it came off easily.

--
A man's riches may ransom his life,
but a poor man hears no threat.
	Proverbs 13:8.

burke@cs.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: kirkpatr@alc.serum.kodak.com (Dan Kirkpatrick (x37370))
Subject: Advice on responsibilities of Best Man
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:02:37 GMT


Could someone tell me the responsibilities of being a Best Man?

I know that the best man should arrange the Bachelor party, and do the 
toast... but anything else?  Gift other than wedding gift?  Other duties?

And about the party... should he know about it, or make it a suprise (tough).

Thanks in advance!

______________________________________________________________________________
       
 ///// |     -=-DAN KIRKPATRICK-=-        | *** kirkpatr@clpd.KODAK.COM ***  |
|  @ @ | "We conserve only what we love.  |     kirkpa89@snypotva.bitnet     |
c   _) | We love only what we understand. | LOCKOVM1.449486@KodakO.Kodak.Com | 
 \  o  |We understand only what we learn!"| ***  Phone: (716) 253-7550  ***  |
______________________________________________________________________________

          (If mail bounces, make sure it's sent to address marked above)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: kevin@clsi.COM (Kevin Cameron)
Subject: Re: couple ans
Originator: kevin@dubhe
Organization: CAD Language Systems Inc.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 17:31:17 GMT


In article <1992Aug27.122321.58440@cc.usu.edu> manjulav@cc.usu.edu writes:

>I have a question:
>My boyfriend just left on a mission yesterday and has asked me to wait 
>for him. I have promised him that I will wait, but he has asked me to 
>date other guys in order to find out if I really like him.
>[..........]  Please if you can let me know if there is a possiblity that out
>relationship might work after he returns.
>-Manj

What he probably means is that he wants the freedom to date other woman while
he is away, otherwise he is being stupid - if you date other people while he is
away, there is a good chance you'll find someone you like as much or more, which
would make things difficult when he returns.

Wait for him if you want - he might have a better idea of what he wants himself
on his return - but don't expect him to be "faithful".

Kev.


-- 
Kevin Cameron          CLSI, Suite 100, 5457 Twin Knolls Rd., MD 21045, USA
kevin@clsi.com         Tel: (USA) (410) 992 5700 (- 5709) X229
uunet!clsi.com!kevin   Fax:       (410) 992 3536
----------------------------------------------------------- Reality Is virtual
From: bl269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mary Beth Taormina)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: baby shower question
Date: 2 Sep 1992 19:12:04 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bl269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mary Beth Taormina)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, linda@wendy.uucp (Linda Hill) says:

>I don't read any parenting type news groups so forgive me for asking
>this here.  What is customary regarding baby showers for pregnancies
>following the first child?  My mother has told me that it shouldn't
>be expected by the parents-to-be-again since the idea of the first shower
>is to help the new parents get set up with gear and clothing (similar to
>a wedding shower).
>
>Personally I feel the same way.  I would give a gift on my own for the
>subsequent children, but I don't think another fullblown shower is
>appropriate.
>
>Any thoughts on this?
>
>Thanks,
>
>linda@net.com
>

Linda,


Ditto with you, although I have seen 2nd baby showers given.  I just
wouldn't do it, nor would I allow it.


MB
--
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Friday, 28 Aug 1992 12:54:24 EDT
From: K. Roper <ROPERK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Wedding etiquette
 <tadny=m.shannah@netcom.com> <1992Aug28.153614.8913@csc.ti.com>


 Some of the details of my wedding have been posted in the
   "weird proposals" section of the group.  However, my _previous_
   marriage was more-or-less traditional (from which I discovered
   that the traditional route is a big waste of money and a
   great thing for certain pocket industries...).  BUT I didn't
   have any bridesmaids -- just a "best woman".  Soooo, coordinating
   outfits were a non-issue.  Carol has a terrific body but she looks
   ridiculous in a bridesmaid's dress, so we ended up with a loaned
   non-trad. outfit that happened to go well with everything else.
   (Incidentally, this outfit was custom-made for another wedding party :)
   It was a pink-and-grey mottled kimono that looked *stunning* on her
   and only required minor tacking with silk thread to make it fit.
   She provided grey shoes and purchased grey stockings.  I bought
   her (ersatz silk) flowers (cheaper than real ones up here).
   Net cost to her was just about nil since she already had the shoes.
   My SIL and MIL threw the shower since Carol didn't live near me.
   Besides, she was in school and couldn't afford it (something I
   tried to take into account).

 The ushers rented their own tuxes; the best man had his paid for by the
   groom.


 The more recent wedding was relaxed -- we told the invitees
     1) no gifts (yes, that means "no money")
     2) dress comfortably -- the groom won't be wearing a tie anyway.

  Some of our guests were of limited means, hence number 1).  Actually,
    we were glad of not having to move the extra stuff when we moved
    recently :>

  Number 2) was to maintain the sanity of the wedding party:  if Jeff
    had worn his favourite (read "UGLY!!") tie, I'd have brained him.
    I made a boatman's shirt for him (think "Huckleberry Finn"): soft
    collar; no tie.  The fabric was on sale for 2 or 3 $/metre.  He wore
    casual cotton pants and running shoes to complete the attire.
    The minister *definitely* wasn't a "dressy-up" kind of guy, either.
    (This is a minister who, while dressed as Friar Tuck, married "Princess
    Leia" to Darth Vader".  It was a double wedding, but I don't recall what
    the other couple appeared to be :)   People wore anything from suits
    to shorts.  To tell you the truth, I didn't pay much attention to their
    clothes :>  My birth mother made my outfit (see other disc. thread for
    details).


 Later ... Kim
From: cmclark@dri.com (Chip Clark)
Subject: Re: Pre-marital counseling
Reply-To: cmclark@drivax.mry.novell.com
Organization: Desktop Systems Group/Novell, Monterey CA/USA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 19:28:19 GMT

jac0854@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (Jennifer A. Corner) writes:

]My fiance and I will be starting pre-marital counseling next month.  We
]are both a little nervous about it and were wondering how other couples
]experiences were - both good and bad. 

My father is a minister, so I was fortunate in have a relation also do
the counseling.  My father's prespective is no couple will be married (atleast
not by him) without counseling.

His counseling takes about 6 weeks and the undersatnding he still may not
be willing to marry the couple if he feels they have not been completely honest
or are approaching the marriage with their eyes open.  

His marriage success rate is - after 35 years - only 6 known divorces -  and 
he is still active in the 3 churches he has ministered - so he is pretty aware
of where most of the married couples are.


Well, worth the experience, but you should expect some hard questions coming
your way.


Chip - 
cmclark@novell.com

"And happy always was it for that son
Whose father for his hoarding went to hell?" - King Henry VI -Shakespeare
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Ending a marriage
From: Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 02:58:39 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.

In article <1992Aug25.160451.15066@col.hp.com> lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson) writes:
>In no way should it be a surprise to one spouse when the other spouse
>says "I want out." Even if she believes there is no way to save the
>marriage, I believe she has a responsibility to talk to her husband,
>first saying, "I have major problems with this marriage and here's why." 
>Maybe he will have ideas of what to say or do that will change the
>situation, or maybe not; but she needs to give him time to think
>about the fact that the marriage is not working, before she says
>"I'm leaving."

I think it very important that the woman not "act" as if she was happy
in the marriage, and end up being extremely resentful of her husband -
it is a recipe for extreme hurt.  She could end up very bitter and
twisted, and the children, if any will suffer, quite apart from the
couple themselves.


>
>(I can visualize a situation where this would not work--say, he beats
>her, or something else happens that suddenly makes the situation completely
>intolerable; then she must say "I'm leaving now because...". But that's
>obviously not the situation here, since she's been in this situation for
>awhile. She can afford a few more days or weeks to let him react. If
>possible, she should try to remain open-minded during this time: that
>is, if he does come up with ideas to save the marriage, she should try to
>consider them and not just assume the marriage is over.)

It is not neccessary for one spouse to actually beat up the other.  It
can happen, that *both* of them are intimidated by the other, and in
such a situation, it could be that *neither* realises that the other
feels intimidated.  I know of no simple solution to this, unless one
partner realises the problem and seeks appropiate help.

These are *not* hypothetical situations.


Gavin
-- 
Tomorrow's Society                              | flower_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
    Depends on                                   ----------------------------
Today's Children  - help us raise them properly! 
*******  These comments have no known correlation with dept. policy!  *******
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes)
Subject: Re: Wedding etiquette
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:12:44 GMT
Summary: forgot to add something

In article <1992Aug27.200458.4922@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>, cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes) writes:
> 
> Wow, you may be in for a shock, just as I was when I was the maid of
> honor at an ex-friend's wedding, ex due to the wedding!
> I was naive, had I known all the time, expense, and aggravation involved,
> I would have declined!  Never again will I be in a wedding!
> 
> I'll tell you my bad experience:
> 
> The gown, hat, gloves, and shoes cost *way* more than was expected.
> (I was in college at the time, which made this worse).  I had to pay
> for all these, as expected.  I had to buy a bridal shower gift *and*
> a wedding gift.  I had to buy the "anniversary candle" for the couple.
> (was told this was the "duty" of the maid of honor).  I had to write out
> and stuff invitations for the wedding and shower.  I had to decorate the
> rented place for the shower.  I had to help pay for for rented place
> for the shower and help pay for the caterer for the shower, plus help
> pay for the bridal shower favors and *make* the bridal shower favors.
> I even had to make and bring in other food for the shower even though
> it was caterered (from my dorm room?!) I had to help decorate the cars
> for the wedding.  My parents were not invited to the wedding (I was since
> told by others that they should have been?).  It was a large wedding
> party, the other bridesmaids had to help and chip in money for all
> this too, but lucky me being the maid of honor had to do more and pay
> for more.  Oh yeah, I also had to pay for my own flowers/bouquet
> that I carried (artificial bouquet, even more expensive). Some "honor"!
> Was not even treated to a rehearsal dinner!
> 
> To make a long story short, I haven't spoken to her since her wedding,
> nor were ever contacted by her to see any wedding photos, nor did I
> ever get a thank you for anything from them!
> 
> Whew!  Now that that's off my chest, perhaps I got taken by a 
> real bitch, who knows?  Maybe your experience will be much better,
> much less time consuming, less expensive, and less frustrating/
> aggravating!  Good luck!
> 
> Christine
> 
> 
> (by the way, for those of you wondering, I had a tiny wedding,
> the only people there being us, and our parents, my mom and
> father-in-law being our matron of honor and best man).
> 
> 

Oops, I forgot the add the kicker of this story, the couple
was divorced only 10-11 months after the wedding!

Christine

Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix)
Subject: Re: baby shower question
Organization: Wild Bill & BabyCat's House of Many Pleasures
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:46:43 GMT


bl269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mary Beth Taormina) writes:
>
>In a previous article, linda@wendy.uucp (Linda Hill) says:
>
>>I don't read any parenting type news groups so forgive me for asking
>>this here.  What is customary regarding baby showers for pregnancies
>>following the first child?  My mother has told me that it shouldn't
>>be expected by the parents-to-be-again since the idea of the first shower
>>is to help the new parents get set up with gear and clothing (similar to
>>a wedding shower).
>>
>>Personally I feel the same way.  I would give a gift on my own for the
>>subsequent children, but I don't think another fullblown shower is
>>appropriate.
>
>Ditto with you, although I have seen 2nd baby showers given.  I just
>wouldn't do it, nor would I allow it.
>


   I'm really glad to see that people agree on this point of
etiquette.  It really isn't proper to have a shower for 2nd 
babies.  Although, I have seen at times Co-workers host one for 
someone that didn't work with them at the time their first child was 
born, which "might" be ok.  


Ellon

--
"Excuse me,George Herbert,irregular-heart-beating,read-my-lying-lipping
slipping-in-the-polls,do-nothing,deficit-raising,make-less-money than 
Millie-the-White-House-dog-last-year,Quayle-loving,sushi-puking Bush!
I don't remember inviting your ass to my show!"  Arsenio Hall.
From: exujbl@exu.ericsson.se (Jerry Blackerby 214-907-7810)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Am I a grandfather? You be the judge.
Date: 1 Sep 92 11:51:03 GMT
Reply-To: exujbl@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article 1@bronco.fnal.gov, colombo@bronco.fnal.gov () writes:
>
>You'll probably say that I'm a grandfather, so maybe I should put it this
>way, what do you tell a child that has four grandfathers AND four
>grandmothers?  Will I be a great-step-grandfather when they have kids?
>
Two of my sons married women with girls aged 3 and 4 already.  They both
asked if they could call us Granddad and Granny.  Naturally, we agreed.
We have never had a problem with considering them our grandchildren.
They are treated identically to the others.

Jerry
==========================================================================
|| Jerry Blackerby 214-907-7810 (w) ||    Practice random kindness and  ||
|| exujbl@exu.ericsson.se           ||    senseless acts of beauty.     ||
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix)
Subject: Re: Wedding etiquette
Organization: Wild Bill & BabyCat's House of Many Pleasures
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:35:06 GMT


cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes) writes:
>
>Wow, you may be in for a shock, just as I was when I was the maid of
>honor at an ex-friend's wedding, ex due to the wedding!
>I was naive, had I known all the time, expense, and aggravation involved,
>I would have declined!  Never again will I be in a wedding!
>
>I'll tell you my bad experience:
{christines horror story deleted}
>
>Whew!  Now that that's off my chest, perhaps I got taken by a 
>real bitch, who knows?  Maybe your experience will be much better,
>much less time consuming, less expensive, and less frustrating/
>aggravating!  Good luck!


   GOOD GOD CHRISTINE!   This girl must have had Big Brass Balls.

   Some people have absolutely NO couth!

>(by the way, for those of you wondering, I had a tiny wedding,
>the only people there being us, and our parents, my mom and
>father-in-law being our matron of honor and best man).


   This is sooooo Special!  What a great idea!

   Ellon St. Croix




--
"Excuse me,George Herbert,irregular-heart-beating,read-my-lying-lipping
slipping-in-the-polls,do-nothing,deficit-raising,make-less-money than 
Millie-the-White-House-dog-last-year,Quayle-loving,sushi-puking Bush!
I don't remember inviting your ass to my show!"  Arsenio Hall.
Newsgroups: soc.couples,soc.men,soc.women
From: nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim)
Subject: step-parable (was: Re: Am I a grandfather? You be the judge.)
Organization: Fordham University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:06:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug28.164629.1@bronco.fnal.gov>, colombo@bronco.fnal.gov 
writes...
> 
>(I'm cross-posting as I don't know which newsgroup is best to ask this. :-)
> 
> 
>I'm a step-father to (among others) a 23 year old (female) that recently
>had a baby (girl). So my question is: Am I a grandfather, step-grandfather,
>or what?  And what of my parents, are they some sorta great-grandparents?
>I don't even want to bring MY grandmother into this, she's getting a bit
>senile and probably doesn't even know/remember that I'm married. ;-)
> 
>You'll probably say that I'm a grandfather, so maybe I should put it this
>way, what do you tell a child that has four grandfathers AND four
>grandmothers?  Will I be a great-step-grandfather when they have kids?
> 
[stuff deleted]

Serious note:  As long as you feel an emotional attachment to the child, you 
*are* a grandfather indeed. 

There is a (joke) parable about a man who was his own grandfather (or was he?):
Alan, age 40, a widower, and Bob, his son, age 20, lived next door to Alice, a 
widow, age 40, and Barb, her daughter, age 20.  Alan and Barb got married, and 
also Alice and Bob got married.  Bob was certainly Barb's stepfather, which made
him his own father's stepfather-in-law.  He was then: 
             his own step-grandfather-in-law (!?) 
And Barb was her own step-grandmother-in-law.  By recursion, also her own 
step-step-great-great-grandmother-in-law-in-law, and . . . 

A year later, Alan and Barb had a daughter, Cindy, and Alice and Bob had a son, 
Cy.  How and Cindy and Cy related?  :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard J. Nissim  (nissim@mary.fordham.edu)   
Disclaimer:  "I speak only for myself."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tlr@penguins.East.Sun.COM (Tammy Roncadori - Administrator Sun Washington D.C.)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Am I a grandfather? You be the judge.
Date: 31 Aug 1992 11:46:33 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: tlr@penguins.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: penguins.east.sun.com

It would all depend on the relationship you have with the children.  My 
step-grandfather has been more of a grandfather than my grandfather
so, all of the grandchildren view him as grandaddy.  Since my grandmother
died several years ago, we still view him as our grandfather even though
he really isn't a "blood" relation.  His new wife isn't considered grandmother
but, my family still includes both of them in "family" type events like
Christmas gatherings, birthdays, and special events.
From: manjulav@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: couple ans
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:23:20 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

I have a question:
My boyfriend just left on a mission yesterday and has asked me to wait for him.
I have promised him that I will wait, but he has asked me to date other guys in
order for me to find out if I really like him. . I personally don't want to
date anyone because I don't feel comfortable talking to guys other than my
boyfriend.  Please if you can let me know if there is a possiblity that out
relationship might work after he returns.
-Manj
From: jbutterf@mal-s1.gatech.edu (Jill Butterfield)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Am I a grandfather? You be the judge.
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:05:35 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Res. Inst., Modeling & Analysis Lab

>> colombo@bronco.fnal.gov writes:
>>I'm a step-father to (among others) a 23 year old (female) that recently
>>had a baby (girl). So my question is: Am I a grandfather, step-grandfather,
>>or what?  
>

My grandmother re-married the year before I was born. I grew up calling my
step-grandfather by his first name, even though I never knew my "real"
grandfather (he died when I was 2 wks old). Even though he is officially
my "step-grandfather," I think of him as my grandfather.

jib
-- 
Jill Butterfield, Research Scientist       EMAIL: jbutterf@mal-s1.gatech.edu
Georgia Institute of Technology, GTRI Modeling and Analysis Lab
"Happiness is excitement that has found a settling down place..."
-E.L. Konigsburg, _From the Mixed-up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler_
From: linda@wendy.uucp (Linda Hill)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: baby shower question
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:53:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies

I don't read any parenting type news groups so forgive me for asking
this here.  What is customary regarding baby showers for pregnancies
following the first child?  My mother has told me that it shouldn't
be expected by the parents-to-be-again since the idea of the first shower
is to help the new parents get set up with gear and clothing (similar to
a wedding shower).

Personally I feel the same way.  I would give a gift on my own for the
subsequent children, but I don't think another fullblown shower is
appropriate.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

linda@net.com
Newsgroups: soc.couples