From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Subject: Re: Just how much smarter are atheists?
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:54:47 GMT

HEATHER LEE FYFFE (910773f@ace.acadiau.ca) wrote:
> In article <1992Dec12.061611.24526@netcom.com> bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:
> >>
> Sorry if this sounds like I'm bragging, but it is all true...
[Things deleted...]

I know many Christians that are very bright (even extremely bright) and 
well educated.  Most of them agree that there are logical inconsistencies 
with their beliefs, but they prefer to hang onto their beliefs because 
it makes them feel better, and they admit it!

> It's not purely an 
> emotional, spiritual, geez-this-feels-good thing either.  Being the 
> intellectually questioning sort that I am, I have read and discussed a lot 
> about Christianity.

Yes, but what are you reading and whom are you discussing with?  If
you only discuss with other theists, whether you concur with them or
not, you'll never even approach the logical inconsistencies that
believing in a diety presents.

> 
> Many of my nest friends are intellectual Christians too.  

That's not surprising, since many religions encourage their people
to only associate with each other.  They don't want anyone to hear
convincing arguments that might lead them astray from their faith.
Generally the more bizarre and unorthodox the religion, by societies
present standards, the truer this is.

> As for truth, somebody mentioned that there are many truths, until they get 
> disproved, or something like that.  

I think only someone with a belief in the "super-natural" would argue
that their are many truths.  As far as I can observe there is only
one truth.  

> Religion is not just a way of dealing with life.  Sure, that does come into 
> play.  But it is also a belief in a certain truth, and if you believe in 
> that truth, then what others believe to be true must be wrong, because there 
> can only be one Truth.  So EVERYBODY goes through life trying to convince 
> everybody else that they're wrong.  Christians by evangelizing, atheists by 
> arguing with Christians, even apathetics who say `whatever works'.  Some try 
> more forcibly, some don't really _try_, but just stating your own opinion 
> forces others to consider it.  But if you don't believe in your truth 
> strongly enough to consider it the big-T Truth, then why do you believe in 
> it at all?  

Why must you believe in something that you can't prove?  What's wrong
with saying, "Gee, I dunno.  I don't think all the information is
in on that one yet."

> 
> Before you flame me on this point, I know that most of you atheists on this 
> group DO consider your truth to be the big-T Truth and you're not afraid to 
> say so.  These last paragraphs were aimed at those who say `you believe what 
> you believe and I'll believe what I believe and let's not get in other's 
> way, OK?'.  

I don't think many atheists believe that at all.  They aren't proponents
of multiple realities. That's more of a New Age solipsism.  

> And yes, there are many Christians who believe because they were told to and 
> didn't bother to think about it.  But there are people like that in any 
> religion (or non-religion).  I myself grew up being told that Christianity 
> was wrong, and so I believed it, until I started to learn about it.  Then I 
> clued in.

You keep saying that you're convinced it's the truth.  What objective
proof convinced you, a well-educated, articulate, individual?  You haven't
really given any arguments as to why your beliefs are true.

> Everyone, whether they will admit it or not, knows that they have 
> a soul.  

Sorry, I'm reasonably certain I don't have a soul.  You only assume you
do because you've been told that and because you don't know how to
explain the workings of your own mind.  More on that later.

> Noone can possibly believe that `I', what makes me `me', my 
> thoughts, my feelings, my personality, is merely a product of atoms jumping 
> around in the brain.  

Why is it that chemical imbalances can so dramatically influence personality?  
What about people with brain damage who seem to lose certain
sorts of cognative behaviors that *you* would assign to a "soul"?
Since you keep up with the science trades (sic) you'll know that some
component of personality is passed on genetically.  That seems to 
indicate that the functioning of the brain is mapable and someday
we may understand it.

"Atoms jumping around in the brain" is a very fuzzy term to describe
the complexities of the organ.  Just because you don't understand
how it works (who does?) doesn't mean that it is magical in
nature.

> I have to wonder about those who can do nothing but flame, flame, flame we 
> Christians.  

Well, this is alt.athiesm and your arguments are just are more of the fluffy 
feelings and lack of critical reasoning that we hear over and over again.
It gets boring and silly after a while.  Why don't you really live up
to your stated self-image and say something definitive, even if apocryphal.
I can't tell you how many times I hear "I can't explain this phenomenon, 
therefore it is due to something super-natural."  That is sloppy and
lazy reasoning.  Would you go into a department store and say, "I don't
know how much a television costs, therefore $120,000 dollars is a
reasonable price to pay."  Hopefully you'd do a little bit of research
on televisions.  Maybe you should do the same on the subject of "brains"
and "souls".

> Just some food for thought.  Responses, compaints, comments welcome, but 
> please, be mature enough not to flame.

I wish it were food for thought.  It's more like bubble-gum for the 
eye balls, though.  I realize this is harsher than you were looking
for, but it reflects my frustration regarding the status of critical 
thinking skills in our society.

--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com