HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: wetsuits and drysuits
Date: 12 Dec 1992 20:59:29 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

fhm@well.sf.ca.us (Frank Miles) writes:
> 
> The combination that works best for me is a combination of farmer john/
> polypro sweater/drytop. I like the slight cushioning and buoyancy that the
> wetsuit gives me in case I swim. If it's really cold, I'll wear polypro
> pants under the wetsuit.

I also prefer wearing my wetsuit, for three reasons: it's more comfortable,
has more abrasion resistance in a swim, and is cheaper and more durable.
However, a drysuit provides more flotation because of air trapped inside.
Swimming in a drysuit makes you feel like you're above water; the only cold
part is the back of your neck.  Although it is theoretically possible for
drysuits to rip or get punctured, I've never read an accident report where
this actually happened.

Note that only hardshell kayakers would want a drytop, since their legs are
covered up underneath the sprayskirt.  Rafters and open canoeists prefer
full drysuits.  Men should spring extra bucks for a waterproof zipper fly,
and women should spring extra bucks for a two-piece, since "nature breaks"
can otherwise be tough on your neck and wrist gaskets.

Also, I've found that wearing polypro pants under a Farmer John makes you
colder, because water circulates under there more quickly.  The cheapest way
to increase leg warmth (especially in the rain) is to wear paddling pants.
However, these can make swimming difficult.  Another trick for impoverished
boaters is the "geek hat", a nylon-covered pile hat with ear muffs that you
can wear under your helmet.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Gecko Sandals
Date: 17 Dec 92 04:24:35 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec16.234537.5248@helios.var.com> vogler@helios.var.com (William F. Vogler) writes:
>While on a boating journey in Costa Rica this last November, I
>had the unfortunate mishap of loosing one of my Gecko sandals.
>Would anyone out there have their address and phone number? I
>think they are located out somewhere in Colorado.

Gecko
4163 R Road
Paonia CO 81428
1-303-527-4990

(At least as reported in Outside Magazine, 9/91)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: klawton1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Kathleen Lawton)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: WCC (HI!! YES!! WOW!!)
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:40:33 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College

In article <1992Dec13.143459.1@oread.cc.ukans.edu>,
burns@oread.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> 
> Is anyone one out there a member of Washington Canoe Club?  I spend breaks in
> the DC area and would like to know what's going on.
> 
> Brian Burns
> 
Yes-- What exactly do you need to know? The banquet's on the 19th and the
junior team's going to Florida (or some of them are) to train--other than
that, I think we're all just paddling over the holidays....feel free to
email me (klawton1@cc.swarthmore.edu) if you have any other questions. 
Kathleen Lawton
From: pck@dde.dk (Peter Roboz Kristensen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: RE-POST ROWING NEWSGROUP
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:20:23 GMT
Organization: Dansk Data Elektronik A/S

IO20414@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:



>     Why don't you just start the bloody newsgroup
>rather than asking for votes, and explaining ediciate!!!??!

Just my question too, the only reason I look in this newsgroup
(rec.boats.paddle) is to read about rowing.

>rec.boats.rowing, sounds like a pretty to-the-point newsgroup
>name to me.

and to me

>For further discusion feel free to discuss.

BTW, what does ediciate mean ??
-- 
Peter Roboz Kristensen                         Telephone:  Int +45 42 84 50 11
Application Program Development                Fax:        Int +45 42 84 52 20
Dansk Data Elektronik A/S, Herlev, Denmark     E-mail:     pck@dde.dk
From: pck@dde.dk (Peter Roboz Kristensen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Ediciate-edicte (Was: RE-POST ROWING NEWSGROUP)
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:40:31 GMT
Organization: Dansk Data Elektronik A/S

To IO20414@MAINE.MAINE.EDU:

I couldn't mail to you directly (missing gateways ??) so here it is:


I'm only an ignorant Dane with a Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged
Dictionary of the English Language with more than a Quarter Million
Entries from 1989.

I can't even find edicate, so I still don't understand, what you
wrote.

You're free to invent new words, but please tell Webster.

Peter
-- 
Peter Roboz Kristensen                         Telephone:  Int +45 42 84 50 11
Application Program Development                Fax:        Int +45 42 84 52 20
Dansk Data Elektronik A/S, Herlev, Denmark     E-mail:     pck@dde.dk
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Subject: Re: Legs falling asleep while 'yaking
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:28:17 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

At the beginning of each season, my legs tend to go to sleep until I've
paddled a half dozen times or so. It also happens when I switch boats. I agree
with Tom Menten that the culprit is reduced circulation from seat edge pressure
on the back of the legs.

I speculate that the phenomenon is temporary because your body figures out
a way to get blood to your feet after a  few episodes of adversity. 

cheers,
scott smay
From: bml2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BRIAN MICHAEL LUCY)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Cold Toes
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:56:11 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <Bz40Hy.83F@mail.boi.hp.com>, bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm) writes:
>Have you tried layering socks?  A thin
>wicking sock right against the skin (polypro? silk? I forget what) and a
>regular sock over that for the normal use of a sock.  I have heard of this
>scheme, but have not used it so can't vouch for it.  Supposed to wick the
>sweat away from the foot and so keep the foot dry and thus warmer.

Polypro will wick the water away from the foot, but that is not necessarily
what you want when paddling.  If you wear wool socks or bootie socks, the
water trapped in the sock will gradually warm and keep your foot much warmer
than the polypro system.  Also, since your feet continually get splashed or
re-wet (depending on the type of paddling), the polypro will not effectively
wick away the water.  Overall, in the coldest weather, I would suggest
thoroughly applying a layer of Vaseline to your feet first, followed by wool
or bootie socks and then booties.
------Brian Lucy------

>
>Bill Blohm
>
From: sbaker@slate.mines.colorado.edu (BAKER SCOTT ALLEN )
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Rowing newsgroup
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:20:14 GMT
Organization: Colorado School of Mines

I paddle a kayak and a raft, I row a raft. I would like to see a
rec.whitewater newsgroup.
From: drodman@pacific.mitre.org (David B Rodman)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Canoe Racks?
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:56:11 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, USA


 have spent some time looking at roof racks. Personnally I prefer the Yakama style gutter 
grabber. They work great on my Jeep Cherokee, but then I have one that is two years old 
that has gutters. I understand the new designs have the aerodynamic curves that don't 
have gutters, so maybe this suggestion will only work if you are getting a USED jeep.

The Yakama racks come with a plastic coated metal bar which does not lend itself to 
tye downs, I feel it doesn't give enough friction. So I replaced the cross bar with 
a wood 2x4 cut to the right length. I needed to drill a hole and a longer carriage 
bolt, but was able to use the rest of the hardware from the Yakama kit.

The result is a very stable rack.

David Rodman
drodman@mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson)
Subject: river information
Originator: dsj@juniper12
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:05:19 CST


I would like some information on rivers in Missouri or
Arkansas.  Is anyone familiar with the ST Francis River?

-Doug.
-- 


	-Doug
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: mjo@beat.b24b.ingr.com (Michael J. Oatley)
Subject: Canoe Racks?
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:50:18 GMT


I need advice on permanently mounted canoe roof racks, if such things
are available.

I have a canoe that I carry on my car frequently, and since my car is
an 8-year old Oldsmobile, I don't worry to much about how the canoe is
mounted - as long as it is secure. Foam blocks, front & rear ties downs
and a girth strap work great.

But now I am getting a Jeep Cherokee & would like to put a rack on it
to put the canoe on. Does Thule or any other manufacturer make such a
thing? Any recommendations?




	Michael J. Oatley		
	mjo@beat.b24b.ingr.com       passion for Truth hunts in no pack
	205/730-8738
From: ercm20@festival.ed.ac.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Legs falling asleep while 'yaking
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:45:38 GMT

tmenten@boi.hp.com (Tom Menten) writes:
> Kristian Simsarian (kristian@cs.uchicago.edu) wrote:
> : 
> : 	The only major complaint I have had about the comfort of
> : kayaking is that my legs always "fall asleep".  I am wondering if
> 
>   My feet have slept through some wonderful trips, but not my legs.  I 
> noticed recently that a passenger with a cardboard splint under her leg 
> had her leg go to sleep in the car.  The cardboard was pinching her leg
> (my car seats are not spacious.)
> 
> From this I conclude that the blood supply must be underneath (not on 
> top) the leg.  Maybe someone knowledgeable can check this.

I believe that there are nerves in and around the groin that can have
this effect when squeezed for a long time so it may well be the seat
causing pressure on nerves and not the blood supply that's the cause.  

I believe there is or was a recognised related condition in women who
model tight trousers - they have to be much tighter in the photos of the
models than in real life - where they would get chronically numb legs
from having been squeezed into these garments for days at a time. 
Presumably the incidence of this condition changes with the fashions!

Cyclists can also tell you that a badly fitting saddle can make your
private parts go numb - very disconcerting the first time it happens!  I
believe it's not limited to male members (sic) of the species.

> Any way, that suggests to me that the seat is the culprit; if the seat fits
> funny (perhaps it's tilted up at the wrong place for you) maybe it's doing
> like the cardboard.  You could try reshaping the seat with foam, so your
> butt is higher, and the legs don't get squeezed.   

Yep, seems likely.

Sam
From: driscoll@kayakr.enet.dec.com (tim)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Giardia
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:19:39 GMT
Organization: None

In article <1992Dec15.154925.20225@hemlock.cray.com> dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson) writes:
>From: dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson)
>Subject: Giardia
>Date: 15 Dec 92 15:49:24 CST
>
>A friend of mine just called.  It seems he picked
>up Giardia(sp?).  He linked it to kayaking some
>of the rivers around Minnesota/Wisconsin.  Does
>anyone know anything about how common an ailment
>this is for whitewater paddlers?  I know that when
>I am surfing a big wave the water can shoot off of
>the bow and into my face.  I am sure that I get
>some water in my mouth.  How widespread is the
>virus/bacteria?
>
>-Doug Jackson.
>-- 
>
>
>	-Doug


i feel sorry for your friend... i got a case of giardia after a weekend 
boating in Maine... i wasn't drinking local water so i must have picked it 
up from the river.     Nasty illness and the cure is just as bad.

i haven't caught that bug since....

td
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: donb@crash.cts.com (Donald Bowen)
Subject: Re: wooden kayak construction
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:45:31 GMT

	I am looking for some good reference material on stitch and tape
method.  A recent issue of Fine Woodworking had an article but little 
information was given.  WHat I want is a book or two with how to and plans.

	DonB
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: gizzi@rtsg.mot.com (James A. Gizzi)
Subject: Want to buy W/W Canoe rig
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:58:57 GMT

I am interested in purchasing a used whitewater canoe rig.  Is there
anyone out there that has one that they are tired of?  Maybe you've
moved to this whitewater black hole area named Chicago and no longer
have any use for one.  I would prefer to get on entire outfit w/ bags
and saddle but am interested in anything.  Please e-mail or post if 
interested.

Thanks

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Gizzi             "Western Society needs to prioritize life-support
sqa.rtsg.mot.com       systems and to question its commitment to Materialism"
                                Audrey Shenandoah - Onandaga "Elder"
From: arthur@sgi.com (Arthur Evans)
Subject: Re: RE-POST ROWING NEWSGROUP
Reply-To: arthur@chiba.esd.sgi.com (Arthur Evans)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 20:17:04 GMT

In article <92346.153933IO20414@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO20414@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:
>
>
>     Why don't you just start the bloody newsgroup
>rather than asking for votes, and explaining ediciate!!!??!

Well as it happens, it ain't just etiquette, it's the law
of the land.  You can't start a mainstream newsgroup (i.e.,
outside the alt hierarchy) without holding a vote.

There are more or less official rules for conducting such
votes.  One of the things those rules specify is that calls
for votes should be posted to newsgroups related to the proposed
new newsgroup.  That's why the call for votes was posted here.

OK
ae

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: schultz@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Dennis Schultz)
Subject: Re: Giardia
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:17:44 GMT

	I heartily suggest iodine.  Its completely effective against everything
(except poisonous chemicals, but there shouldn't be that much in our rivers or
I suggest we take some other sort of action).  Its also dirt cheap.  Although
I get mine from the lab, I'm sure you can get metallic iodine from a 
pharmacy for only a few dollars, and enough for many lifetimes of purification.
I usually keep 10-12 gms. in a bottle and use the few parts per million that
go into solution for purification.  Since it takes 15-20gms to kill you, even 
if someone totally screws up, you shouldn't die.  If people are interested,
I can post the basics from an old New England Journal of Medicine article
that describes the advantages of iodine.  Plus a bonus, since iodine leeches
into and out of plastic, just using bottles, previously used for purification
provides some amount of protection.  On the down side, some people don't
like the taste, but I like it, and since concentration required is inversely
proportional to time, long purification times give you almost taste free 
water. Also, a little koolaid or whatever will coverup the taste, if its
a problem.  
-dennis
From: sdh4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT DYLAN HARDING)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Dry Suit Dangers....NOT!
Date: 13 Dec 92 22:31:48 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University



    I have never heard of such a problem.  In fact, the whole scenario seems
    pretty far fetched to me.  I think that there are more important fears to
    have than worrying about ripping your drysuit and drowning or being injured
    as a result.

    First of all, the drysuit would not hold in lots of water.  Water would
    replace trapped air inside the drysuit.  If you put your drysuit on
    properly, there should not be much air inside.

    You would not weigh hundred of pounds if the suit did fill with water.
    You have to remember that the weight of objects in water is a fraction of
    their weight on land.  You average adult weighs less than 15 pounds in the
    water.

    If your drysuit was already ripped and for some reason you felt it
    necessary to remove it in a hurry, couldn't you just continue the rip that
    was already there?

    I think you need to paddle more and worry less.  Drysuits are safe and
    warm.  A good roll will save you from problems.
-- 
-----------------
Scott Harding
Lehigh University
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Friday, 18 Dec 1992 17:05:41 EST
From: <IO20414@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Ediciate-edicte (Was: RE-POST ROWING NEWSGROUP)

In article <1992Dec18.154031.18641@dde.dk>, pck@dde.dk (Peter Roboz Kristensen)
says:
>
>To IO20414@MAINE.MAINE.EDU:
>
>I couldn't mail to you directly (missing gateways ??) so here it is:
 that address should work,
>
>I'm only an ignorant Dane with a Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged
>Dictionary of the English Language with more than a Quarter Million
>Entries from 1989.

>I can't even find edicate, so I still don't understand, what you
>wrote.

I now come forth to publicly  announce that I misspelled a word.

       The word that I really wanted is/was ETIQUETTE.


While I am on the net, I wish to officially cast my vote for the
proposed rowing  newsgroup.

>
>You're free to invent new words, but please tell Webster.
>
>Peter

I have a question, is the constant misspelling of words
                  a symptom of Guardia(sp?)?
                            Maybe this is my problem.

merry x-mas   H.I.>HI-man< Hasey








Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: vogler@helios.var.com (William F. Vogler)
Subject: Gecko Sandals
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:45:37 GMT
Organization: Varian, Palo Alto, CA

Hello Fellow Boatheads:

While on a boating journey in Costa Rica this last November, I
had the unfortunate mishap of loosing one of my Gecko sandals.

Would anyone out there have their address and phone number? I
think they are located out somewhere in Colorado.

Thanks in advanced,

Bill, vogler@helios.var.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220)
Subject: Re: Giardia
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:22:01 GMT

One thing about giardia I havn't heard anyone mention here
is that it is spread mostly by beavers. Other animals also
drop their feces in water but beavers are the worst problem.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: schultz@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Dennis Schultz)
Subject: Boycott Colorado/Col.Springs
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:07:56 GMT

	Seems like many groups are lining up to boycott Colorado, from
mayors conference to Ca. teachers union.  I would like to suggest that that
all you river runners boycott this state too, or at least Colorado Springs,
the heart of fascism.  It was the people of Colorado Springs (The chrysler
dealership, in particular) that gave us the infamous amendent 2, legalizing
discrimination in this state.  Not that I like gays, but I hate discrimination.
So avoid Colorado and especially that scumbag city Colorado Springs, at all
costs.
Thank you,
Dennis
From: shaw+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mary Shaw)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: wetsuits and drysuits
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:52:17 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
>  Although it is theoretically possible for
>  drysuits to rip or get punctured, I've never read an accident report where
>  this actually happened.

This isn't an accident report, but it is a note of mild caution.

Last spring I was doing mild acrobatics to get out of my canoe (OC1) in an 
awkward place to do an equipment rescue.  My foothold let loose and I clipped 
a rock with my knee -- pretty briskly; it hurt.  In the process I nicked the knee
of my drysuit and made a visible hole.  As I recall it was about 1/4 to 1/2" long.
Fortunately, my drysuit has double fabric at the knee, so it was no big deal.
I patched the hole later the same way I treat nylon air-bags.  I'm the one
with a 3" yellow dot on the knee of a purple drysuit.

On a different trip I neglected to make sure that my drysuit zipper was 
absolutely completely all-the-way closed.  The gap was larger than the tear
on the other trip.  The zipper runs right shoulder to left waist; I paddle left.
Sure enough, that was the 40-degree day I spent several minutes sidesurfing full 
of water in a deep keeper hole, followed by a short swim.  I felt water flowing 
in, but not with any great vigor.  The water inside warmed up pretty quickly, and
the drysuit provided much more wind protection than a wetsuit.  I didn't really 
notice how much water was inside and was surprised to discover two or three quarts 
of water in the left leg when I took the drysuit off later.

Putting these two events together:
	- It *is* possible to tear a drysuit, but not especially easy to do so.
	- Water doesn't gush in; it's more like a trickle.
	- The external pressure is about the same as the internal pressure,
		so there's not likely to be a lot of flow unless you tear
		the suit enough for the edges of the tear to flap.
	- Windproof drysuit plus damp pile insulation seemed to be at least as
		warm as a wetsuit
I'll stick with the drysuit and be a little careful about what I run into.  And
double-check the zipper.

Mary Shaw
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: nealf@mdd.comm.mot.com (Neal Friedman)
Subject: Re: Dry Suit Dangers, cold feet etc.
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:04:34 GMT

Several points here, from a winter white-water enthusiast with too little
natural insulation:

Dave's suggestion to wear a hat is an excellent one: I wear a fleece hat
under my helmet.  It dries very quickly, but takes long enough to get soaked
that on the first roll, the cold-shock happens several seconds after I'm
upright.  The second roll is no problem because there is some warm water
still in the fleece, so cold water has a hard time penetrating.  Other folks
I know like neoprene bathing caps or diving hoods with ear holes cut in them.

For cold feet, put a *THIN* non-absorbent sock inside a waterproof booty, ie.
poly-pro sock in neoprene booty.  The booty should be snug so there is not
much room for water to accumulate.  Be sure to empty the booty if you get
totally immersed.  I have tried a thin sock inside a thick sock inside the
booty, but the thin sock by itself works better.  Yes, feet and fingers are
the first to complain.

Count me as vote for poggies.  I get a better feel for the paddle, and I don't
tire out from gripping the paddle through a mushy glove.  Yes, in a swim my
hands might get cold, but the idea is to keep swims infrequent and short :-)
One paddling partner I know uses one of each.

As for drysuits getting holed: it happened to me once, on shore during a
break.  Admittedly a small hole, but my heavy fleece sweater absorbed the
water and spread it out inside the suit.  It was several rolls later before
I noticed it.  Then a little temporary duct tape patch helped out.  As for
taking on water, remember that I have a snuggly fitting PVD, and a spray skirt
around my waist.  Water could only fill an arm or leg or partly fill the torso
section.

Lastly, wearing a wet suit under a dry suit is a fine idea in winter, but be
careful in warmer weather: I read a case study of a rescue where the victim
nearly died from heat stroke due to this combination.

Happy paddling.