HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith)
Subject: Re: New IndyCar Chassis Rules
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:50:06 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.220657.17984@ncube.com> bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
>I'll have to do some more research regarding 'minimum engine width'
>specs.  It was my understanding was that, because of the fact that the
>Cosworth XB was narrower than the Ilmor, the Ford guys can increase the
>width of the underbody tunnels.

Yes, I misunderstood what the proposal was--it wasn't an actual minimum
engine width rule, but a standard underbody shape.  The latest issue of
OnTrack says that this rule was proposed by USAC, that CART didn't want it,
and that they were still trying to work out a compromise.

The same issue also says that the rear wing width was reduced from 43 inches
to 36, with a maximum chord of 12 inches.  And no splitters permitted
underneath the engine/gearbox undertray.

Now:  how are CART and USAC going to work out the Buick boost issue?  I
wonder if USAC's underbody proposal was just a bargaining chip aimed at
retaining the 55-inch turbo boost Buicks are allowed, since the underbody
proposal favors the Buick over both the Ford/Cosworth XB and the proposed
Chevrolet/C.

--
Jay C. Smith
Domain/internet: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu  uucp: ...!mcnc!ncsuvx!eos!jcsmith
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Good.  For a minute I thought we were in trouble."
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Sennas tactics at Hockenheim
Date: 29 Jul 92 09:11:31 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

In article <memo.544677@cix.compulink.co.uk> shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith) writes:

>Why? Why only the problem when passing _Senna_?

Coz he's the only one who's nearly as fast as them.  The others are slow 
enough to make it easy. (Barring maybe the Bennettons)
I dunno about the lecture on psychological methods, but if he's racing he 
doesn't have to move over and wave them through; it's not as if he was being 
lapped or something.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I don't take part in any sport that requires me to change clothes  |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: stevens@b56vxg.kodak.com (THOM STEVENS)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Davey's wreck/ESPN
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:20:00 GMT
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company, Rochester NY
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul27.232935.12571@sequent.com>, dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes...
>In article <1992Jul27.205335.12044@trantor.harris-atd.com> dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com (David Williams) writes:
>>In <1992Jul22.140938.10542@ncube.com> bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
> (Stuff deleted) 
>Doesn't NASCAR have a permanent safety crew and trucks?
> 
>-- 
>Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
>Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
>dafuller@sequent.com

From my experience at Watkins Glen, trucks yes, crews no.  They use local 
track personnel to man their trucks.
From: pdg@crosfield.co.uk (paul goffin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell, Michael, . . . (German GP spoilers)
Date: 28 Jul 92 09:52:02 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <1992Jul28.012654.1962@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> mchivers@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Michael Chivers) writes:
#johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis) writes:

#>Observations on the German GP:

#>Patrese tried to show that he could manhandle a Williams/Renault around a
#>racetrack as fast as Nigel Mansell.  He certainly managed to set fastest
#>lap a few times, but failed to demonstrate that he was the equal of Mansell
#>when pushing his car right to the limit (and maybe a little bit further).

#Didn't Patrese AND Mansell go off while trying to pass Senna?  Did
#Patrese have the lap record at the end of the race ?

Yes, and Yes.

James Hunt and quite a few others have criticized Mansell for almost
crashing while attacking Senna.

At the time (about lap 16, I think), I agreed with them, but...

1) Senna did NOT go in for tyres.  (As Hunt and the rest of
                                    us expected him to do.)

2) Mansell could not be certain than Patrese would
   come in for tyres.  (Mansell was third at the time.)

3) Only One driver overtook Senna in that race - Mansell.

4) Patrese lost his car in a similar battle.

I think that shows that even an underperforming car has a
serious chance when driven by someone with Senna's skill.
(and that a race trim Maclaren is still fast!)

Mansell had to get past Senna.  If he hadn't, and Patrese had
not gone for tyres either, the result would not look good
for the negotiations that are going on at the moment.
Perhaps he couldn't even wait a couple of more laps, as he wanted
to take advantage of his new tyres while they were still new.
-- 
+-------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
+ Paul Goffin +  Crosfield Electronics Ltd. U.K.  +44 442 230000x3357 +
+             +  Opinions expressed are mine!                         +
+--     My employer uses no CFCs in its processes - does yours?    ---+
From: clive@mcdd1.uucp (Clive Backham)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 93 predictions
Summary: Eddie Jordan's Predictions
Date: 27 Jul 92 08:43:23 GMT
Organization: McDonnell Douglas,Hemel Hempstead,UK

Eurosport had Eddie Jordan as a guest commentator at the German GP.
He was at pains to point out that he doesn't know anything for sure,
but I guess he must be closer to the inner circle than any of the
journalists. Anyway, he predicted for next year:

Williams: Mansell and Senna.
   Jordan said: "I think they are both mature enough now to handle this"
   (I personally disagree, but Eddie must know better than me)

McLaren: Prost and Berger.

Ferrari: Alesi and Patrese.

Possible variations: Senna goes to Ferrari, to be with John Barnard.

One other snippet. According to Jordan, Senna was walking around all
weekend with a very obvious smile on his face, but wasn't telling why.

(End of Eddie Jordan's thoughts)

Personally, what I think would be really funny (but very unlikely) is:

* Senna goes to Ferrari.
* Prost returns to McLaren, with Renault engines.
* McLaren's active suspension is brilliant, and they sweep all before them.
* Senna kicks himself really hard.

- Clive    (mcdd1.uucp!clive@uknet.uucp)
From: leres@ace.ee.lbl.gov (Craig Leres)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: POCONO
Date: 23 Jul 92 05:41:39 GMT
Reply-To: leres@ee.lbl.gov (ucbvax!leres for uucp weenies)
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.112.6

Millam Tackitt writes:
> DW had enough time to slow a bit and avoid bumping Davey but instead he
> sped up. I've watched the replay a dozen times and you can see that DW
> hit Davey on purpose.

Well as long as we're tossing opinions around, I think the cause was
stupidity on Davey's part. He had the fastest car on the track (as
demonstrated by boring first half of the race in which he lead nearly
every lap) and had no business trying to block DW. He should have
waited for the pack to thin out and then worked his way back to the
front.

As much as I like to root against Davey, I really think that if he
would mellow out a bit, he could easily win the championship. But
looking at this incident and the stunt he pulled at the end of the
Winston, it makes you wonder if he's going to finish the season in one
piece.

He certainly has taken more helicopter rides than any other WC driver
this season...

		Craig

P.S. Did anyone find out why Davey's last pit stop was so lousy? About
all I know is it was bad enough to drop him from 1st to 7th.
From: jaslow@bissun.kodak.com (Russell Jaslow)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Ghost of Can/Am?
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:01:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Jul24.160158.22383
Organization: Eastman Kodak

In article <1992Jul24.133512.25381@news.uiowa.edu> aewhelan@icaen.uiowa.edu (Andrew Whelan) writes:
>In article <92206.084003JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu> Jonathan Swaby <JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>In article <12361@perryd>, perryd@Software.Mitel.COM (Dave Perry) says:
>>
>>>I thought Can/Am was dead - haven't heard anything about it for at least
>>>5 years.  I thought I heard it  mentioned on tv (TNN? TSN?) while
>>>I was channel flipping the other day. So - is it dead or what?
>>Carroll Shelby has tried to bring the series back. Car and Driver
>>did an article on him and mentioned the series. The cars are all the
>>same. They look like Sports 2000 cars. I think the season is short
>>and it includes ovals.
>
>	The SCCA CAN-AM series died out in the 1970's but the name
>	is still owned by the SCCA. 
>        
>        What you have been hearing about is a series based on the 
> 	Shelby car, like Dave said. As far as I can tell, the series
>	is an SCCA Pro Racing series that is running at various venues
>	around the States and Canada. 
>
>	The Shelby CAN-AM is an SCCA spec car that is built by Shelby 
>	Technologies, Inc. (213-538-2914) They have a "sealed 255hp 
>	Dodge V-6" (SportsCar: V49/N9, pg 64) and cost about $35000. 
>	The Shelby CAN-AM is also a SCCA Club Racing class and I believe 
>	that these are the rules that control the car.
>
Yes, you are correct, although the club racing version will use a different
engine than the pro version.  At least that was the original intention.  I 
don't think they have gotten to that point yet.

One other point, the Shelby CanAm was devised by the SCCA as the next step up
the spec racer concept after their Spec Racer (formerly Sports Renault) car.
The CanAm cars are quite fast; with a good driver they will beat Sports 2000 
on any track I have seen them at.  They are not catching on with serious 
drivers however, and mostly just rich guys are buying (and crashing) them.
-- 
Russell Jaslow          | Spec Racer #33  Finger Lakes Region | My employer
Eastman Kodak Company   |     In memorium: Andrew Spiller     | has nothing
Rochester, New York     |       Cynthia Bishop Halstead       | to do with
jaslow@bissun.kodak.com | Keep the damn drunks off our roads! | my drivel.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt)
Subject: Re: Wreck on ESPN Saturday Night
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:28:48 GMT

deanb@pecan10.cray.com (Dean Barker) writes:


>In article <BrqoB9.GJz@acsu.buffalo.edu>, trljim@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (JIM SONNENMEIER) writes:
>> I saw a replay on ESPN Sunday night, you`re right horrorfying!!! ... never 
>> seen anything like it the guy floppin around like a rag doll .. anyway
>> all they said that he was in serious but stable condition ... that was 
>> three days ago .. I hope it is still true.

Heard an update on this last night.  (Unfortunately, I can't remember his
name.)  He's in serious condition, but conscious and alert.  Multiple
compound fractures of the left arm, and some head injuries.

>I usually watch SNT, but I missed it this week. Without getting too graphic, 
>what was different about this crash from every other midget roll-over. Did
>this guy fall out of the car or something? Did the seat belts or roll cage
>fail? Try to keep this non-graphic, just give me an idea what happened.

The cage didn't fail, but apparently the shoulder harness did, and
either the left side netting came off or else he didn't have one.
The car got turned right into the wall and then did a sequence of
very fast rolls (something like what happened to Allison).  During
the rolls the driver's upper body restraint apparently failed.
You can guess the rest... the left arm came out of the cage and the
car rolled over on it several times.  That's all I care to say.
However, the cage held up, and the fuel cell didn't spill, and all
in all it could have been much worse.


-- 
David Cornutt, New Technology Inc., Huntsville, AL  (205) 461-6457
(cornutt@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov; some insane route applies)
"The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer,
not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary."
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Re: Mansell, Michael, . . . (German GP spoilers)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:19:41 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

mchivers@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Anthony Doig, posing as Michael Chivers) writes:
>johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis) writes:
>>A head-on shot showed how he [Schumacher] was able to do this; he had even
>>less rear wing than Senna.  As the race practice sessions showed, it was
>>not easy to run even one lap with minimal downforce, let alone forty!
>
>It seemed to me the the Mclarens were running the most wing of all
>compared to the Williams and Bennetons, with the Bennetons having the
>least.


Brain fade on my part - I meant to say "Even less rear wing than Patrese"
-- 
John Francis                                johnf@apollo.hp.com
The world can be divided into two classes :-
 those who divide people into two classes, and those who don't.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Subject: Re: Misc. Weekend Ramblings
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:48:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.232640.8750@rdg.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul20.171914.14494@ncube.com>,
>bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
>|>between MiAndretti and Rahal.  I think Michael did a masterful job
>|>avoiding Rahal on the pit exit.  What else was he supposed to do?
>
>Maybe use the brakes?  Maybe travel at a safe speed in pit lane like he's
>supposed to?

You've decided what he's "supposed" to do, have you?  I guess you've written
up your own private set of rules to govern Indy car racing?

Is it lost on you that the reason why such a big deal was made about the
recent experiment with a speed limit in pit lane, was that under the normal
rules there is no limit?  The pit lane is part of the racing surface.  Say
that to yourself, over and over, until it sinks in.

Dave Wilson
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Boo Boo Senna (German GP minor spoiler)
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:27:46 GMT
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd

In <pod.712454596@suite.sw.oz.au> pod@suite.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell) writes:

>In <thos.712308978@suite.sw.oz.au> thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes:

>>Well, I saw nothing wrong with how Mansell behaved. Patrese could 

>What, apart from when he nearly took himself out of the race because
>he was stupid?

Well, yes. Apart from that. (What was I thinking?)

>pod@softway.sw.oz.au                    | Gaffer tape is like the force.
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
 The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 'but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?' R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Whats Mario's excuse this time?
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:04:27 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

In article <9207201804.AA17439@tektronix.TEK.COM> TKPOWELL@bluemoon.profs.tek.com writes:
>
>With respect to the pit incident, Michael was on the gas hard, like
>anyone else would be.  You get your fuel and tires and drop the
>hammer.  Rahal swung very wide forcing Michael to go for it or brake.
>Did I say brake...come on.. this is balls to the wall racing.
>

I recall a race in Miami a couple of years ago (IMSA?) where a car
blocked the pit lane entrance, causing the whole field to be put
under yellow.  The rules explanation was that the pit lane is PART
OF THE RACING SURFACE.

I assume (but perhaps someone with the rule book could verify) that  the
same is true for the Indy car races.  A car is on the racing surface
as soon as it pulls out of its pit.  If Rahal had been off the surface
somewhere else out on the track, and pulled onto the surface right in
front of an oncoming car, would there be any doubt as to blame?

Wasn't the incident (last year?) with Emmo resolved as having been the
fault of the crew member who signalled Emmo that is was safe to pull
out?

As for why Michael "seems" to be involved in more of these incidents
than others, it is in my opinion precisely because he is so damned
fast on the track.  His competitors don't feel they have the luxury
of watching him blast by in the pits, and hope to recatch him on the
track -- they can't.

Dave Wilson
From: eliot@engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1:  What did Frank Williams say to Andrew Marriot re: Patrese
Date: 28 Jul 92 07:35:01 GMT
Organization: University of Washington


Several people have talked about how rotten FW was towards his drivers.  I
couldn't for the life of me make out his words with all that background
noise.  Would some kind soul tell me what exactly he said?  I'm referring
to the comments he made to Andrew Marriot right after the end of the race
when he was asked about Patrese.

Thanks!!

eliot


BTW, I thought that James Hunt did an exceptional job with his race analysis
this time.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Subject: Re: Barnard to Ferrari (UK)!
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 18:33:46 GMT


In a previous article, apayton@acorn.co.uk (Andrew W Payton) says:

>
>                                       
> British designer John Barnard is       
> returning to the Ferrari team after    
> agreeing a five-year contract.         


Didn't Barnard design the 643 for Ferrari?  If so I don't think I would
want him back.
From: hpb@hpb.cis.pitt.edu (Harry Bloomberg)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: What would you ask Sam Posey?
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:04:22 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Jul23.140310.8313@keps.kodak.com> rbt@dracut.keps.kodak.com (Bob Tufts) writes:
>
>Given the company you may be in, I'd say it would be pretty hard to appear
>like a total fool!  :-)
>
>Sorry Harry, you asked and I couldn't resist.
>
   That's OK.  That was the spirit in which the post was intended!

Harry Bloomberg
hpb@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: lallo@stsci.edu (Matthew D. Lallo,622,4577)
Subject: Re: Sennas tactics at Hockenheim
Reply-To: lallo@stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore MD
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:43:21 GMT

In article 4170@news.duke.edu, arm@canctr.mc.duke.edu () writes:
> In article <zlsiida.1080@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
> >In article <memo.544677@cix.compulink.co.uk> shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith) writes:
> >
> >>Why? Why only the problem when passing _Senna_?
> >
> >I dunno about the lecture on psychological methods, but... [Del]
> 
> One will only pass Ayrton if he is in a much much better car and most
> of the time this will not occur on a curve. He is brilliant on the
> corners. He makes all of them perfectly without giving any room for
> one to pass. Often both Nigel and Ricardo keep weaving behind Ayrton on
> the assumption that they are pressuring him (This does not affect a
> master of corners and a fearless racer like Senna). Note that when
> Ayrton is behind he never engages in the zig-zag mode... He often goes
> at correct time. 
> Also Senna has a fantastic ability of track recognition in the sense 
> that he can identify where the dirty or very wet sectors are located. 
> Thus, when impatient drivers like Nigel, for example, are weaving behind 
> him they do so for a reasonable amount of time. And this is because 
> Senna does offer passing chances.  After some time Ayrton will offer
> a passing illusion. He will make room on the dirty side of the track. 
> That is all; not much of  psychology behind this. Prost and Nigel know 
> so well about this since they have experienced it many times. The difference 
> is that Prost has learned about it while Nigel has not.
> 
> Pinto 
>    



Ahh yes, now I see. Everyone out there. You all have it wrong. All the other
drivers are not even on the same plane of consciousness as Senna-master.
Deity of all Brazil! See this is all told to us by no less than the most
knowledgeable and astute driver and student of motorsports, Pinto himself.

Thank you Pinto for explaining things in terms of Senna-God's omniscient 
sensitivity to everything around him. He the Glorious One baits and makes
light work of all those that come before him. Like Zeus he strikes at the
mortals with lightning bolts of intellect and skill. 

Oh Senna-he-who-makes-perfect-corners-without-zig-zagging, your disciple 
Pinto has spread the Good News. The news of you walking among us..us..MEN.

It's amazing Pinto, how Senna sees (through divine inspiration?) wet and 
dirty patches that no one else does, and then offers it to his weak and
limited competitors (if that word is even appropriate) thereby tricking 
them as a fish to a hook or a mouse to cheese on a trap. 

You see it all so clearly Pinto, just like Senna. Perhaps some day the veil
will be lifted from all of our eyes too and then, maybe others can hope to 
be the fearless master-of all corners, seer of all track conditions, propogator
of illusion to thwart the lesser and hollow men that cross them.

And you had been silent for so long.

Matt
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: butler@quest.comm.mot.com (Jim Butler)
Subject: Camaro/Firebird clubs in Chicago area? 
Reply-To: butler@quest.comm.mot.com (Jim Butler)
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:57:48 GMT
Keywords: camaro firebird club chicago



	Is anyone aware of a Camaro/Firebird (GM F body) special interest
group in the Chicago or Chicago suburban area?  I'm interested in getting
all of the information I can on the '70-'81 model years (interchanging
parts, axles, brakes, etc., etc.)

	I appreciate any help.

	Jim

--
Jim Butler (butler@Quest.comm.mot.com)
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell, Michael, . . . (German GP spoilers)
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:30:55 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In article <Bs2BGu.14q@apollo.hp.com> johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis) writes:
>
>Finally, an observation about F1 vs. IndyCars.  If the IndyCar series is,
>as we have often been told, a far more level playing field, then how come
>Michael Andretti already has something like 25 race wins to his credit?

But in the opening laps at Hockenheim the first twelve places were
two Williams, followed by two McLarens, two Benettons, two Ferraris,
two Ligiers and two Loti.  That sounds like a pretty sloped playing 
field to me!

			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
From: rons@soul.tv.tek.com (Ron Selberg)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: More IMSA Notes
Date: 29 Jul 92 01:42:30 GMT
Organization: Tektronix TV Products

I sent the Camel girls over Bob! They were staying over at my place for
the weekend and wanted to meet a real radio guy! You're Welcome!
RON
From: pr@last.pubs.stratus.com (Paul Ryan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Senna and Me...
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:19:11 GMT

Senna may retire for the rest of the season "rather than risk my life to  
finish third", because he doesn't have a competetive car.

I can understand that, and actually feel the same way myself. I'm not  
driving this year because no one offered me a competitive ride...

But I've always been this way. When I was a little kid, if I wasn't  
winning at baseball, I used to take my ball and go home...
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport