From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Continuity In Messianic Judaism (was
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:07:04 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO


    -=> Quoting Rob Strom/[strom@watson.ibm.com] to Bill Carlson <=-
 RS>...movement whose major objective is to "save the souls" of Jews...
      Modern Messainic Judaism is a movement to capture not only the
      flavor, but the walk of those of our fathers who not only
      Believed that Y'shua was/&/is the Messiah; but walked in concord
      with the Mitzvot of Torah is a 1st century Biblical Judaic view.
           To live our lives righteously before HaShem in Messiah
      empowered by Ruach HaKodesh shel El*him is our "major objective".
 RS> ...what is or isn't Messianic, and I don't know the details ...
      I'll try to narrow that defination down.  Years ago; the term
      "Hebrew Christian" was employed by many Believing Jews; most of
      those who employed that term, {by not all}, were those who'd
      come out of Gentile Churches, and were Jewish, but continued in
      a "Gentile" type of lifestyle.   The UMJC started shortly after
      this, and the emphasis was no longer on a "Gentile" form of
      worship; but a Biblically Judaic 1st century form.  [Pesach -NOT
      easter, Christ-mass; etc....]  Later, the MJA formed, from the
      roots of the Hebrew Christian Alliance, and they as well moved
      to a more Observant lifestyle; though typically, [but not in
      all cases], they tend to be "somewhat" less Observant than their
      UMJC counterparts.  Except for a "few" Congregations who may
      still be somewhat in a mode of the early HCA, the Messianic
      Judaic movement as a whole, is moving toward Observance, not
      away from it.
 RS> ... do Messianic churches/shuls care about preserving Judaism ...
     By not allowing marriages between those who are non-Believers in
     the G-d of Avraham Yitschak and Ya'akov, with those who are.  By
     encouraging remaining in a Observant lifestyle in a Messianic
     Shule, and providing instruction to the children in Judaism and
     appreciation of their roots.  By parents individually speaking to
     their children of the Mitzvot, which include marrying within the
     House of Israel, etc..., [more later on this]
 RS> ...seems pretty convincing evidence of the priority your Messianic
 RS> church gives to preservation of Judaism.
     No!  What to you think?  You think the M'shacheeym making Ger
     Tzaddukim in droves would have any kind of a wonderful impression
     on Rabbinic Judaism whatsoever?  No.  They would not recognise it
     even if we did.  And if those who are determined to marry outside
     of the House of Israel don't do so through us, where is there next
     step?  -The Catholic church maybe?  The Rabbi's sure aren't going
     to marry them!  Better they should stay in an Observant setting in
     our Shule, than go outside into a totally Gentile enviroment, and
     so loose all appreciation of their heritage and roots; and the
     next generation -{those who come from this marriage that can even
     be considered halachicly Jewish}, go off and finish assimilation!
          Since they are going to get married anyway: better they
     should stay in an atmosphere where there is some Observance, then
     going off into one where there is none!
          You think that many of the Reform, and even some Conservative
     Rabbis in their efforts to maintain Judaism, will quicky mikvah a
     shiksta, simply because the Jewish husband's father is threatening
     to kick his tookus if he marries her?!  So..., two dollars and a
     box top from Matza, and vwoool-la!  Poof --> your a Jew!  This
     means that now young lady: you can be part of Eret-Israel, have
     your Jewish husband; yet the husband and kids are still free on
     Chabis to go with you to that buddist TM session that you've been
     meaning to check out.  -But it's all so very halachicly correct,
     -your converstion!  Gavalt!!!!  I'd rather see someone observe
     from the heart, and bring up their children in some kind of an
     Observant setting, than go off and join a catholic church, or a
     moonie-house; ...all the while boasting of their new found
     "halalicly correct converstion", wouldn't you?!
... 012 Sh'ma Yisrael: HaShem - El*hienu - HaShem ECHAD! ... 210          
--  
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