From: doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller)
Subject: Re: Celery
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:39:00 GMT

Out of the mouth of as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) ...
>In <1gtah8INNotv@access.usask.ca> vcz40@jester.usask.ca (Perry Testem) writes:
> > 
>>I seem to remember reading an article about the vaunted sprig of celery.
>>It went something like:
> 
>>	The sprig first appeared in Castrovalva.
>>	It was replaced in (I think) Enlightenment.
>>	It was last seen in Androzani, where it failed to revive Peri.
>>	
>>	BUT...Castrovalva didn't exist (the Master created it), and the 
>>	   setting for Enlightenment didn't exist (I'm not sure; I've
>>	   never seen it), SO...
>>	the celery never existed, so of course it couldn't help Peri.
> 
>Well, a few comments:
> 
>1.) We don't know much about Block Transfer Computation (since it is, to the
>best of my knowledge, FICTIONAL), but my guess is that the matter created by
>BTC does "exist" and is very much real.  Castrovalva was engineered by Adric
>who was being directed by the Master, yes, but it was certainly concretely
>in existence, functioning as if everything were naturally created, until
>the destruction of the Web caused it to collapse in upon itself.  The fact
>that the celery did not instantly disappear certainly indicates that its
>properties were probably preserved as well.

	Block Transfer, first introduced by Chris Bidmead in "Logopolis",
used mathematical equations to recreate actual space-time events as solid
fact.  To quote my all-time favorite secondary "Who" character, the Monitor,
"Structure is the essence of matter, and the essence of structure is 
Mathematics!" ... so the Block Transfer equations could actually create
a substantial event, directly modeled upon an original.
	The block transfer reproduction of the Pharos Project control
room was very real, remember?  The computers actually worked, and the
satellite tower was actually used to keep the CVE's open and prevent
the destruction of the Universe from heat death (remember towards the end,
as the Monitor is about to use the satellite to beam the end result of
Logopolitan research into space to keep the CVE's open permanently, and
it was only upon his death that the Doctor went to Earth to use the
*actual* Pharos satellite?)

>2.) Enlightenment's setting existed, and was engineered to period details by
>the Eternals, beings who exist outside of time.  Now it's been a while since
>I've seen this episode (although it's one of my all-time favorites, and
>Wrack is one of my all-time favorite characters...an appearance in a New
>Adventure wouldn't be unwelcome at all!  :)), but if I recall correctly, the
>Ephemerals (humans) vanished, either returned to their own time(s) or simply
>killed, while the Eternals were returned to Eternity.  Wrack's ship still
>existed after she herself was returned to Eternity, and so did a table on
>the ship, some chairs, etc.  I think it would be unreasonable to assume that
>the other objects on board vanished, and furthermore unreasonable to assume
>that the celery was fake and the food wasn't real.  And again, it didn't
>disappear...

	I believe it was implied that the Eternals were capable of 
manipulating matter ... remember how Wrack was able to stick shards of
that notorious crystal into ordinary objects, and use it to destroy her
rival ships.  However, the end of Barbara Clegg's novelization of
"Enlightenment" implied that the ships began to dissolve after the
Eternals were yanked back outside of time ... I don't remember if this
actually happened in the episode or not, but even if it only existed in
the novelization, the celery wasn't in the book either, so maybe it
didn't exist at all!

>3.) And what makes you think the Doc didn't replace the celery more often? 
>Just because we only witnessed it two times doesn't mean it didn't happen at
>any other time.  Logic would in fact demand that a fresh piece be attached
>every day.  (By the way, how does he attach the celery to his lapel?  Pins? 
>Sticky stuff?  What?)  Otherwise he'd be wearing a dried-up vegetable half
>the time, which doesn't make any sense to *me*!

	I've watched that scene in "Castrovalva" about a hundred times.
I don't know *how* he managed to get that thing to stick to his collar.
Nails?  Scotch tape?  Postage stamp hinges?  It just sort of hangs there ...

>	So I would surmise that the celery *was* real after all, although I
>certainly enjoyed your explanation. :)  However, even if you're right, I
>think Peri needed a lot more help than celery could give her.  Professional
>help...Dairy Psychiatry, anyone?  Proust in his first book wrote about,
>wrote about...ding!  Start again.
> 
>Drewcifer
>-- 
>***************************************************************************
>** Andrew David Simchik, registered Scorpio ************* SCHNOPIA! *******
>***************************************************************************
>as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu

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Jason A. Miller				|		"some doctor guy"
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doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu"		|(fill in your own fave quote here)
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