From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What's the point? (LONG)
Summary: Ken, Zen, ichijo!
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:17:10 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Apr12.223017.6948@uoft02.utoledo.edu> fax0243@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>
>	So what's the point of karate, anyway? Our school is very informal and
>the main reason people go is to learn a little self defense, stay in shape, and
>have some fun. Doesn't seem like too many of our instructors (don't call 'em
>senseis here) really have any other point to karate than to be able to defend
>one's self when the going gets tough. 

Being an unreformed, atavistic, "traditionalist", I'd say that the informality
might be part of the problem. 

>	Probably the closest we have ever come to actually covering anything
>about what the whole deal with this karate thing is was when our instructor Rod 
>started reading _Zen In the Martial Arts_ to us. Unfortunately some mom in the
>kids class got ticked off because she thought he was teaching "eastern
>religion" or something...

One of the problems with trying to make a living from teaching martial arts
is that it tends to force one to accomodate the ignorance and prejudices of
one's students ;-). Your sensei has my sympathy. It sounds like he's doing the
best he can under the circumstances.

>	Bringing me to my point... What do you all get out of karate? I have
>three things that I think most people get out of karate no matter what style or
>school they come from. Those are: 1). Self defense abilities, 2). Self-esteem
>(at least a little), 3). More or less physical fitness.

That question's too hard for me - I've only been training 20 years or so. Let
me refer you to someone who actually knows what he's talking about
(Shoshin Nagamine, 10th Dan Hanshi, in _Essence_of_Okinawan_Karate-Do_):

	Amidst the noise and rapid changes of modern society,
	one can find in karate-do a piece of mind that will
	never be shaken. Through karate training one acquires 
	stoicism which will prepare him fully to meet life's
	many responsibilities. Karate training takes devotees
	along the path of self-devlopment. Every movement, every
	step in karate training requires one to make a total
	committment of self. Complete and unswerving focus and
	power in karate practice help one to understand himself
	because he is required to fuse his entire being through
	physical motion. Because the self, in all its aspects and 
	complexities, must be committed to karate training, the 
	ability to commit the self will also carry on into all
	aspectsd of life. Karate training helps to end a dualistic
	way of life in which a person is separated by lack of
	committment from the world around it. From this comes
	peace of mind.

	The fusing of mind and body in karate is indescribably 
	beautiful and spritual. The flow of the mind, when totally
	absorbed during kata practice, brings a person into total
	contact with the essence and core of his being. One is both
	humbled and uplifted by this knowledge of self.

	All of the spiritual aspects of karate-do and the ways in 
	which it can bring one to self-realization cannot be fully
	described. I have pursued the study of karate in an attempt
	to bring karate and Zen together as one. This has been a 
	life-long effort, and one that can never be fully realized
	by any one person. 


I could have quoted many others on this subject, but one lengthy quote
is probably enough. I could have referred to numerous other martial arts
but you asked specifically about karate. I don't have a lot of perspective on
this; I haven't been training long enough. I would like to make an observation
observation, though:

What you are asking about, and what Nagamine-sensei is talking about in
that quote, is the subtle difference between Karate-jutsu and Karate-do
(karate art/skill, and karate *way*). A lot of us traditionalists (me
included) claim to teach karate-do. I think we are mistaken in this claim.
I don't think anyone can teach anyone else karate-*DO* (or ju*DO*, or
aiki*DO*, or ken*DO*) - it's not something you can impart to someone
else. *Do* (same as Chinese Tao) isn't a *thing*, it's a process. It literally
means *path* or *way*. You can show somebody where the path starts, you can
help steer him/her through the twists and turns, but you can't do the 
travelling. Someone can follow (to make it somewhat more general) bu*DO*
through the practice of bu*JUTSU*(I have absolutely no idea what terms
Chinese arts would use here, but I'm sure the analogy applies there,
as well), or he/she can just "go through the motions".

As somebody once told me, "You have to find your own karate-do".

>I'm just wondering if there's some thing I should actually work for in my quest
>for black belt?

In your "quest for black belt"? No. In the rest of your life? Maybe yes.
How big a part of your life do you want this to be? It's probably a little
early for that to be a major concern for you, but the question *will* come
up eventually.

I think you should ask your sensei for some guidance and suggestions - it
sounds like he'd be delighted to know somebody was interested. 

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts