HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gpivar@maestro.mitre.org (Greg Pivarnik)
Subject: Re: a couple of questions
Reply-To: gpivar@mitre.org
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:01:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.220552.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
|> In article <1992Jul27.203416.1@husky1.stmarys.ca>, gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca 
|> writes:
|>  
|> > 	Monroe also noted experiences in which he 'used' the body of someone
|> > else.  Maybe this is the type of thing that you are referring to.
|> 
|> no, that would be more a case of possession, i think.  i mean the same
|> consciousness in two simultaneous physical manifestations encountering itself. 
|> both people would presumably have different life experiences and only
|> experience one side of the encounter (at a time).  any ideas?
|>  
|> > Bill.
|> 
|> Jude.

	I would like to expand on this for a moment if I may. Standard
disclaimer: this is a concept I hold true to myself and do not wish to speak
for any others

Under a pretence that : "All for one and One for all" (Thank you Alexander)
That is, We all stem from a Oneness and the Oneness is a summation of us 
all (to include everything known to us as well as unknown) Then everybody
is experiencing everything together. It would be very possible to know these
experiences of the whole if one was able to connect with the other parts of
the One. Meditation to a degree is a form of connection. In various meditative
states I have experienced the formation of knowledge from what seemed a 
collective source on topics/subjects that this (my) physical body has had 
no prior colaboration with in this life time...Universal Consciousness if you
will.

comments, expansions,non-concurrences welcomed.
-- 
Greg 

--  Be still, be silent...the rest is easy.  --
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,soc.rights.human
From: lever@voyager.corp.sgi.com (Karen Lever)
Subject: Free Classes in Tantric Meditation
Followup-To: poster
Originator: root@voyager.corp.sgi.com
Keywords: consciousness, meditation, Enlightenment
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:33:27 GMT

Free intensive workshops will be offered in the Bay Area:

Stanford University                       U.C. Berkeley
    Thursday, July 30                         Monday, August 3
    Thursday, August 6                        


Topics include: Meditation, Buddhism, Power, Balance, Wisdom,
Enlightenment, Personal Happiness, Reincarnation, Career Success
and Miracles.  Classes consist of discussion and meditation, 
and are designed for individuals age 29 and under. 

Stanford classes will be held in the Escondido Village Center 
(next to the E.V. office), from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m.

U.C. Berkeley classes will be held in Wheeler Hall, Room 223,
from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m.

Additional classes will be offered in the Bay Area this summer
and fall.  For information, please call 415-995-4721.
From: lever@voyager.corp.sgi.com (Karen Lever)
Newsgroups: soc.eastern.re
Subject: Free Classes in Tantric Meditation
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: ba
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Keywords: consciousness, meditation, Enlightenment

Free intensive workshops will be offered in the Bay Area:

Stanford University                       U.C. Berkeley
    Thursday, July 30                         Monday, August 3
    Thursday, August 6                        


Topics include: Meditation, Buddhism, Power, Balance, Wisdom,
Enlightenment, Personal Happiness, Reincarnation, Career Success
and Miracles.  Classes consist of discussion and meditation, 
and are designed for individuals age 29 and under. 

Stanford classes will be held in the Escondido Village Center 
(next to the E.V. office), from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m.

U.C. Berkeley classes will be held in Wheeler Hall, Room 223,
from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m.

Additional classes will be offered in the Bay Area this summer
and fall.  For information, please call 415-995-4721.


Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: adrothst@athena.mit.edu (Andrew D Rothstein)
Subject: Love
Keywords: love, nirvana, meditation, enlightenment
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:43:57 GMT

The ending of the nirvana? posting (1992Jul27.171437.15641@uwm.edu) has gotten me
thinking about love.  I think that when used in a "spiritual" sense, as it was
being used here, love has a different meaning than most people give it.  The
impression I get (from lines like the "passionately striving for love") is that
love is looked at as some intensity of emotion.  But I think that love goes
beyond the emotions.  To me, the spiritual love (as in the God is Love in
Christianity) has to do with MERGER.  Nirvana (or whatever term you want to
call it) means to remember and realize your connection to the rest of the
universe.  When you merge into the pulse and flow of the universe, then you walk
through the world (you do still exist in the everyday world, as many posters
noted) with a familiarity, not a fear.  And so love is just living in that state
of total connected-ness to the rest of existance.  There's nothing to strive for
because you already are everything; and so you cannot feel desire.  There's      
nothing against which to fight, because you would only be fighting yourself; and
so there can be no strife.  And so what is the point of existance then, I hear
you ask?  Bring that love you have found back into everyday life and share it
with those around you.  Uplift and support all the people still hiding in fear
from the freedom of love.


Andy Rothstein
adrothst@athena.mit.edu

Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: probst@fraser.sfu.ca (Scott Probst)
Subject: Re: nirvana ?
Keywords: Nirvana
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:50:47 GMT

In article <zlsiida.1086@fs1.mcc.ac.uk> zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.013447.11405@sfu.ca> probst@fraser.sfu.ca (Scott Probst) writes:
>
>>to sum up, were you to become enlightened, you would still perceive
>>things, but not as 'real', in the way they appear real at the moment...
>>the realisation of their non-inherent reality would be simultaneous with
>>the perception of the things themselves.
>
>>how's that sound?
>
>Fine.  I think it's actually the Taoists who claim to be able to hop into 
>and out of this reality more or less at will.
>
i guess they do, but what i was talking about is the actual act of perception,
that this is changed fundamentally so that the illusory "reality" usually
imputed onto phenomena does not appear - or rather, appears in conjuntions with
the perception of its illusory nature...


>A quote from HSThompson in his sig.....hmmmmmmm
>
and? 
>
-- 
Scott Probst: Brain and Behaviour Laboratory, Psychology dept, SFU
              Graduate Issues Officer, Simon Fraser Student Society.
e-mail: probst@fraser.sfu.ca - ph: (604) 291 3354/3181 - fax: (604) 291 5843
              "yes, well, and here we go again..."   Dr H.S. Thompson
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: jeremy@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Jeremy Smith)
Subject: Conscience
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 18:27:11 GMT

Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody is looking
                -- H. L. Mencken
-- 
jeremy@jacobs.cs.orst.edu (Jeremy |-) Smith)
I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that... well, yes I can!
SGNTR VRS VRSN 3.1B: Strppd nd cmprssd fr qckr trnsmssn! nfct yrs tdy!
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: gpivar@maestro.mitre.org (Greg Pivarnik)
Subject: You say tomatoe, I say...
Reply-To: gpivar@mitre.org
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:11:43 GMT

Could someone out there explain to me the differences behind
Satori and Samadhi. I'd like the background origin or philosophy
each is attached to and a brief interpretation of each. I have come 
across both terms and have had it explained in various ways but 
ultimately they both seem to be the same thing, am I misguided?
-- 
Greg 

--  Be still, be silent...the rest is easy.  --
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: jjj@mits.mdata.fi (Joni Jarvenkyla)
Subject: Re: nirvana ?
Organization: Microdata Oy, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:08:01 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.005500.23265@uvm.edu> cavrak@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Steve Cavrak) writes:
>In Hinduism, Nirvana is a final reunion with Bhrama - achieved through
>elimination of individual existence.
>
>In Buddhism, Nirvana is the final state, a release from the cycle of
>reincarnation, and the extinction of self.
>
>In Sanskrit, nirvana is "extinction (of individual existence).
>
>A friend explained that it is "blissful", but not "our" blissfullness,
>but that of the "oneness".

It is also worthy to note that the Hindu and Buddhist Nirvanas differ
from each other technically: the Hindu nirvana is the ultimate result of
deep concentration on something, whereas the Buddhist nirvana is the
result of being here and now; concentration on the non-existing self.

Or whatever, but they're not the same thing, as your final sentence lets
understand.

-- 
jjj@mits.mdata.fi     Thanks, Life; thanks, Death    And the other me:
jjj@niksula.hut.fi    for freeing me from self       Jenny L{rv{joki
Xref: sparky alt.consciousness:350 alt.paranormal:1980
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: a couple of questions
Date: 29 Jul 92 12:47:41 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In article <1992Jul28.220236.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:

>In article <zlsiida.1072@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) 
>writes:
> 
>> Casteneda has been debunked; however his books do consist of a soup of 

>by whom?

It was so long ago, I can't remember the name.  However there was some 
traffic on this recently in, I think, sci.skeptic (maybe alt.dreams).
Ask there!  The basic problem seemed to be that on several occasions when he 
was in the Sonoran desert (according to his books), he was actually observed 
enjoying a quiet drink in a bar in California.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I don't take part in any sport that requires me to change clothes  |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: murphyg@Software.Mitel.COM (Gary Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: a couple of questions
Date: 29 Jul 92 12:41:08 GMT
	<zlsiida.1072@fs1.mcc.ac.uk> <1992Jul28.220236.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Followup-To: alt.consciousness
Organization: Applications Software II, MITEL Corporation, Kanata, Ontario,
	Canada
In-reply-to: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu's message of 29 Jul 92 02:02:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.220236.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:

   In article <zlsiida.1072@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) 
   writes:

   > Casteneda has been debunked; however his books do consist of a soup of 

   by whom?

By the native peoples themselves who understandably took exception to
this shame of a mockery of their beliefs.  Actually, I'm being too
'white' in that statement: the best 'debunking Casteneda' argument I've
read was Gary Trujillo's short essay painting Casteneda as Raven, The
Trickster, whom you may remember as that One who taught humans many
things by giving them problems to solve.  Things like stealing their
moccassins while they slept, on a snowy winter's night, forcing some
ingenuity out of his victim.

   > traditional beliefs, so there might be something in there.  Better to go to 
   > the anthropologists to check out what those Sonoran indians were really into 
   > though.

   > Read any William Burroughs?  He claims half the people here aren't people as 
   > well.  How did it go?  Venusians push heroin, Uranians are into sex,.....

   nope, sorry.

   Jude

And the Nova Criminals are behind it all, the 'parasite' keeps it's
'host' alive so long as it can extract 'oxygen' or 'food' or 'money'.

--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - Gary.Murphy@software.mitel.COM - (613) 592-2122 x3709
"We don't have to work to create a natural mind; it just is." --- Morita
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: barryc@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Barry Chiu)
Subject: hypnotism
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:15:37 GMT


Hi!

What is a good reading list for hypnotism?
Please post or email!

Thanks!

Barry
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: jjj@mits.mdata.fi (Joni Jarvenkyla)
Subject: Re: Transcendental Meditation
Organization: Microdata Oy, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:59:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.061103.3921@westford.ccur.com> hank@westford.ccur.com (Hank Cohen) writes:
>The answer is that TM is an effortless  technique for achieving a state 
>called transcendental consciousness or pure consciousness.  In vedic 
>philosophy this is called samadhi (sp?).  It is very difficult for me

Thanks for a very good general article on TM, at least I found it
clarifying. However I think your explanation of samadhi is a little bit
too narrow, because "pure consciousness" leads me to believe that
"this is It", whereas "samadhi" really is only "the beginning of It".

I don't want to criticize TM as such, because I believe that every
effort towards a better understanding of your self is always worth it.
I would still like to point out that our Average Net Reader does NOT
have to go and join into a TM group (the $$ aspect), but the lower
states of consciousness are also reachable at home, just by yourself.
And maybe even more easily, if other people make you nervous. And this
is (in my opinion only, of course) the clue of TM: it may be a rather
interesting way to "get social" ;-)

(Just compare: drinking/tripping/going to amusement park together)

-- 
jjj@mits.mdata.fi     Thanks, Life; thanks, Death    And the other me:
jjj@niksula.hut.fi    for freeing me from self       Jenny L{rv{joki
From: bdb@becker.GTS.ORG (Bruce Becker)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Language and thought
Date: 26 Jul 92 05:34:29 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: G. T. S., Toronto, Ontario

In article <BILL.92Jul17213539@ca3.nsma.arizona.edu> bill@nsma.arizona.edu (Bill Skaggs) writes:
|
|   >> Do you think that you think in a language or is language just used to
|   >> express your thoughts to others?
|
|My own personal opinion (but I have no expertise in linguistics) is
|that people certainly *can* think in ways that do not involve
|language, but that the best way to make a thought clear and definite
|is to phrase it linguistically; also putting a thought into language
|allows the language mechanisms (which are one of the most powerful
|parts of the human brain) to play a role in thinking.  So it ends up
|that a substantial part of our thinking consists of "internal
|conversations" in which we start with a vague nonlinguistic thought,
|transform it into language to make it definite, decode the language
|back into non-linguistic form, pick up any new associations that have
|come up along the way, transform them into language, and so on.



	This depends on the person as a matter of
	personal style & predilection (the development
	of which is primarily but by no means wholly
	a cultural artefact).  Humans can work in
	internal forms far removed from external
	communicative modalities, or they can function
	internally much the same as they do externally.
	The mind is a marvellously flexible instrument...


-- 
  ,u,	 Bruce Becker			Toronto, Ontario
a /i/	 Internet: bdb@becker.gts.org	Uucp: ...!web!becker!bdb
 `\o\-e	 -=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-
 _< /_	 "Usenet is never having to say you're sorry" - Handy Andy
From: dwp+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug Philips)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Meditation (was: TM's effect on populace)
Summary: something salient, shortly stated, sadly seldom satoric
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:44:56 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

In article <1992Jul15.000937.1755@cs.mcgill.ca>
	jeffjc@cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey CHANCE) writes:
+In article <=n#m3xg_@aix01.rz.fht-mannheim.de>
mw@frodo.ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz) writes:
+>Jeffrey Chance <jeffjc@cs.mcgill.ca> wrote:
+>: Don't know about you, Marc, but Im not satisfied with my current experience.
+>As long as a double-bind situation isn't seen, one tries to resolve it by this
+>or that way. What can there be done about it?
+If nothing can be done about our present situation, why do you
+advocate "letting go" ?

In order to avoid creating the suffering that comes about when you desire
that things be different.  Note that acceptance is not passivity.  

+You make it sound that, if you have a sense of direction regarding
+your spiritual growth, you're just creating a lot of activity for the 
+mind. Sorry, can't agree with you here. I bet the zen people have their
+minds engaged on a day-to-day basis every bit as much as seekers of the
+type Im describing.

It is not activity vs. inactivity, but the kind of activity.

+You also make it sound like, if you have a sense of direction, you
+always expect things. A tricky point here. Some people do expect
+a lot from their spiritual practice. I dont quite agree with this 
+attitude. As the saying goes, no expectation, no frustration.
+But, in a broader sense, you _do_ expect to make spiritual
+progress; you just don't think about it and judge your
+experiences all the time. Its a subtle point. I hope I've made 
+it clear. Dont the zen people, _overall_, expect something positive
+out of the process of letting go?

Would depend on the person, I think.  Personally I find the distinction
between expectation and aspiration to be useful in this context.

-Doug
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: dlinde@fenix.encore.com (David Allan Linde)
Subject: Re: Reality
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:45:46 GMT

In article <zlsiida.984@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul16.122248.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
|> 
|> >this cycle.  there is more going on than we can see (at higher vibratory rates)
|> >Jude
|> 
|> Want to try a physics explanation of 'higher vibratory rate'?
|> 
    Sure.  The electromagnetic frequency range which is perceived by the human
species is quite a small part of the spectrum.  One might also argue that our
senses are not sensitive enough to register fields generated by entities that
may be present.

     The model which impressed me the most viewed everything from an energy
point of view.  When you move though space or touch something you leave a faint
trace of your energy (or essence).  Since energy can not be destroyed but only
transformed, when our physical body dies, our essence (energy blueprint) should
continue to exist. The question I wrestle with is whether the remaining energy
field has consciousness and for how long.  I have convinced myself of the
first part of this and continue to seek the how long part.

 

Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,alt.paranormal
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: a couple of questions
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:18:17 GMT

In article <zlsiida.1085@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul28.220236.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
|> 
|> >In article <zlsiida.1072@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) 
|> >writes:
|> > 
|> >> Casteneda has been debunked; however his books do consist of a soup of 
|> 
|> >by whom?
|> 
|> It was so long ago, I can't remember the name.  However there was some 
|> traffic on this recently in, I think, sci.skeptic (maybe alt.dreams).
|> Ask there!  The basic problem seemed to be that on several occasions when he 
|> was in the Sonoran desert (according to his books), he was actually observed 
|> enjoying a quiet drink in a bar in California.
|> 
The basic critical source on Castenada is Richard de Mille, "The
Don Juan Papers", (Wadsworth Publishing Company, Belmont CA, 1990).
This book is in print but difficult to get.

The book is a collection of articles, not all "anti-Castaneda".

The basic problem is not what is noted above (although that might
be true), but that there is PLENTY of evidence of many kinds that 
Castaneda's "field work" was done in the UCLA library.

The DJP also reveal what little is known of CC's real biography,
as opposed to the fictions he has given out in public.

Lots of other good stuff, including details of the scandalous
misbehavior of CC, the media, and CC's publishers.  

This book is, IMHO, vastly more interesting that the Don Juan books.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Xref: sparky alt.consciousness:323 alt.paranormal:1947
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,alt.paranormal
Subject: a couple of questions
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:52:03 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

Don Juan is reported by Carlos Castaneda to have said that not all the "people"
whom we see walking the earth are human beings; some are energy (thought forms)
in the disguise of human form, and when one learns to *see*, she can tell the
difference between such a force and a real human being.  does anyone have any
experience with this?  opinions?

also, i have read that simultaneous physical lives is a possibility (space and
time are illusions, right?  i think so).  i was also wondering if anyone has
ever met another person with the same consciousness, or whether people think it
might be possible to do so.  Robert Monroe was prevented from coming into
contact with earlier manifestations of himself while out of body on the grounds
that "a true paradox refuses to exist", but what's to prevent two physical 
forms with the same consciousness from coming together (except maybe an 
"accident").  would such a meeting, too, be a true paradox?

thoughts, opinions, experiences graciously accepted.

curiously,

Jude
From: gpivar@maestro.mitre.org (Greg Pivarnik)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Language and thought
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:01:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: linus.1992Jul21.120155.25222
Reply-To: gpivar@mitre.org
Distribution: alt
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va

|> karenm@yenta.alb.nm.us (Karen Millar) writes:
|> 
|> >>>
|> >>>> Do you think that you think in a language or is language just used to
|> >>>> express your thoughts to others?
|> >>>
|> 

Karen,
IMHO we "think" in terms of images and "language" is a vehicle for 
expression of thought. Granted it is not the only vehicle for expression. 
A performing artist or dancer can convey a very detailed message to an 
audience through bodily movement or facial expression without ever uttering
a spoken word.  I would ask then do you mean "language" as a spoken
form of evaluation and communication? If not then, I would support the 
notion that "language" is thought.
I would gather that the human brain stores, relates and evaluates 
information in terms of graphic images, hyrogliphics(sp?) for example. If you 
smell a familiar smell, often times you recall a series of "mental images" 
which you associate withthe smell. You would'nt smell a flower and the 
spoken word flower pop into your mind rather an image of the flower. 
I think this holds true for all the senses. 
           
-- 
Greg 

--  Be still, be silent...the rest is easy.  --
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness