HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Chinese school rankings (was Re: Kimwaza - Black Dragon Kung Fu)
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:36:17 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

In article <1bfgnoINNjr2@agate.berkeley.edu>, robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct13.112654.1@ducvax.auburn.edu> mautzcl@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
|> >Panther Productions Training Videos
|> >Black Dragon
|> >
|> >Chinese Goju by 10th Dan Master Ron Van Clief.  Learn Master Van
|> >Clief's Chinese Goju System with these great tapes:
|> 
|> Gosh.  And all this time I though Chinese martial arts didn't have Dan
|> rankings.
|> 
|> Maybe I should read Black Belt more often.  You never know what you might 
|> learn...

Traditionally, Chinese systems did not have belt rankings but now some
teachers use them.  My first teacher had them when I first started,
discontinued sash rankings, started using them again then discontinued
them again.  He never gave a reason for changes in his policy.
It is my observation that rankings are uncommon in
Chinese ma schools but not unknown.

My current teacher uses colored sash rankings for xingyi but not for
bagua or taiji.  He only uses white, green&white, green, brown and black.
Even the white sash is earned.  Sash rankings serves the
purpose helping junior students know whom to ask for help.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo)
Subject: Re: So happy (Dragons and such)
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:09:48 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Oct13.212335.14260@ns.network.com> hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.195633.1246@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>>
>>The Black D vs White D discussion sounds enormously like the palaver that my
>>first kung fu teacher used to tell.  I have asked several Chinese people if
>>they have *ever* heard of white D kung fu--nobody has.  It might just be an
>>American phenomenon, created by ripoff artists.  Sounds like a good story to
>>put right next to your chrome-plated wakazashi to me.
>
>I'll probably be sorry for jumping into this thread, but I used to study
>a style called Pai Lum Kung Fu.  Pai Lum is an American mumbling of the
>Chinese words for "white dragon", which, as someone pointed out earlier,
>work out to something more like "Bai Lung" in Mandarin.
>
>My instructor was John A. Weninger, of Bethlehem, PA.  His instructor was
>(and is) Daniel K. Pai, who used to teach in Hartford, Conn., and now
>lives someplace down in Florida.
>
>The style isn't very well known, and I doubt very much that it has anything
>to do with what y'all are talking about.  But there is a White Dragon Kung
>Fu style around, if you look long enough.

White Dragon may exists since there are tons of Chinese styles.  Those
that Westerners know are a fraction of the total.
However, the Mandarin pinyin you have "Bai Lung" is wrong, it should
be Bai Long.
From: poore@ds13.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Martial Artists
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:26:58 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds13.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

\New Dave wrote:

>of fat and protein, usually will suppliment these for the many different
>forms of "dofu", or tofu. Milk is subsituted with "dojong" (liquid dofu).

Better yet, get some current nutrion information, and learn about the
protein myth promulgated by the Beef Industry. While the things \New
Dave says are true (re: tofu being a good source of protein), we require
much less protein in our diet than is usually reported. 

David Poore
poore@ds13.scri.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Re: aiki in all ma
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:52:58 GMT


byoung@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Brian P Young) writes:

>I do have a list of all requirements for shodan in Budokan, 
>which I believe is the school Takeda Tokimune set up. 

  On a tape I have seen Kondo Sensei, soke-dairi (official representative)
  of Takeda's Daitokan, mention that the first scroll awarded, the 
  shoden mokuroku (first catalog), consists of ikkajo through gokajo 
  (~~ ikkyo through gokyo), 30/30/30/14/14 techniques, for 118 total.
  I.e., no throws yet.  The second scroll is the "Aiki no jutsu"; 
  I would *love* to know what techniques are in that one --

   -- Ted --

==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: shulick@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Subject: Re: Stop it! (was Re: Nice combos with cat claws (or other combos))
Organization: Vallen Software
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:31:16 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.135525.5041@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
>How about it, anybody know of any training available near the University of
>Indiana?

Yes, we do have here at IU hapkido, judo, t'ai chi, kendo, tae kwon do, aikido,
and other stuff.  I'm just hesitant on going for a university class, as opposed
to a commercial thing.  Are the school's classes very good?

-- 
Sam Hulick          | "A baby is an alimentary canal with a loud voice at one
shulick@indiana.edu | end and no responsibility at the other."  --Anon.
(NeXTmail welcome)  |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk (Aurelio Barranco)
Subject: Re: aiki in all ma
Reply-To: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 17:03:17 +0000


> Having been personally tied into a knot by Bernie Lau-sensei, I have a 
> great deal of respect for, ummmm, "instant pain" ;-). I often wonder how
> *much* of the pacifism of aikido is of recent vintage. I cant help
> but remember Ueshiba's description of how to apply ikkyo (ude osae):
>         First, SMASH YOUR OPPONENT'S FACE...(emphasis mine).

I know what you mean ....... I have had some very awsome Nikkyo
applied on me .. and as soon as I get this cast off ...... only
kidding :)


Aurelio 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross)
Subject: Re: Nike Style Tai Chi?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 21:58:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct06.183135.3237@srg.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
>
>	Well, another one of white men's shortcoming is that THEY HAVE NO QI!!
>	It explains why so many white people scoff at the idea of qi, and
>why those who do "believe" in qi have such fantastic, mystical ideas about it -
>because they don't have any, and they just *think* they do.
>
>	Black people have rhythm, yellow people have qi...and white people have
>hmmmm....
>	white people have dangerous high tech weapons and lots of $$$$$.
>
>	This tends to counteract their lack of rhythm and qi.
>
>	Chanster


As a white person, I have to disagree.  I have qi's for every door at home and
at least 5 doors at the office - not to mention my car and bike lock.

	Rich
From: geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aiki in Osotogari
Date: 9 Oct 92 02:39:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: mlb.1992Oct9.023956.24896
Organization: Manufacturing Systems, HSS

In article <1992Oct8.200652.18653@cs.brown.edu>, tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
|> 
|> nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
|> >
|> >An example of this can be seen with the technique Osotogeri, which is
|> >a classical Judo, Ju Jitsu technique.  I have never come across this
|> >in an Aikido environment but it is taught in Aiki Ju Jitsu, but with
|> >a strong Aiki element in the technique.
|> 
|> 
|>    Hmm . . I have serious trouble considering Osotogari an aiki* 
|>    technique, because of the type of strength involved.  In Fred
|>    Lovret's words, "external" muscular strength is accompanied by
|>    a feeling of compression, whereas "internal" strength (kokyu 
|>    chikara) has a feeling of expansion.  This is what I believe
|>    is meant by "extending one's Ki" in Aikido.  However I can see
|>    no way to "extend" in any meaningful way with an Osotogari.  

You off balance someone with osoto-gari by "extending" him out toward
his rear corner, although its not uncommon to see people trying to
a less effective method of dragging uke downward to his rear corner;
either due to the overly defensive posture of the players or just
bad habits. Even the reaping leg extends outward at first to help
with the kuzushi, and then sweeps back in a with an easy, almost
effortless motion rather than hooking the uke's leg and trying to
pull it off the ground.

-- 
Greg Garland - Alive, occupying space, and exerting gravitational force

MS 62-024, Harris Semiconductor Sector, PO Bx 883, 
Melbourne  FL 32905.  geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com

"Never let the facts interfere with your perception of reality."
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Tae Kwon Do and the Kwans no more?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:24:01 GMT

In article <92282.175632CHOI@NDSUVM1.BITNET> <CHOI@NDSUVM1.BITNET> writes:
>First, I don't know what the Shotokan Karaete is, and maybe, there is a possi-
>billity that some forms from S.K. are incoporated in TKD, but I very doubt it,
>very much.  Would you suggest any historical facts?

Sure, I'm sending you a copy of my TKD history (that I did for my
2nd dan test).  Anybody else that wants a copy, please email me.  If
a ton of people ask for it (doubtful), I'll post it instead.

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

PS:  Yes Mark, I read your message, but I figured this post at least 
offered some info in a brief form.  Why did you post a personal
message to me on the net?  Just send me email next time.


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cs911146@ariel.yorku.ca (JEFF HUM)
Subject: Re: Wong Fei Hung  - Fact or Fiction?
Followup-To: Wong Fei Hung  - Fact or Fiction?
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Distribution: rec.martial-arts
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:35:29 GMT

I'm sure on the validity of the stories of WFH, there are so many of them!
But I've read that one of the best KF movie makers, Liu Chia Liang, also 
known as Lau Kar Leung (master of the late Alexander Fu Sheng) has some
connection with WFH.  His dad, who also played roles in the BW series
studied under 'Butcher Wing' who is a disciple of WFH!  Anyone want to
correct me or add anything?

Going off topic a bit here, I'm in a desperate search of movies done by
Liu Chia Liang, Liu Chia Hui, and Fu Sheng -=*> the ones from the 70s
from Run Run Shaw (Shaw Bros.)   I'm also looking for movies by
Kuo Chui, Lo Mang, Lu Feng, Chiang Sheng, etc (eg: The 5 Deadly Venoms).
Anyone have any info on a local place that might have Cantonese versions
of these?  How about HK?  I plan to go and check there sometime also.


                                                           Jeff.
From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Re: *** Advice sought on Wing Chun ***
Date: 15 Oct 1992 07:28:46 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


dude@losers.hacktic.nl says:


>In article  <3345@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU>, Simon Tong writes:

> S> I have gone through the FAQ, but can't find anything on the Chinese
> S> Kung Fu style Wing Chun.  Could someone please give me a brief 
> S> introduction on this style, like its strength, weakness and 
> S> characteristics ?
> 
> WC is a martial art that depends heavily on the 'center-line' principle.
> This means that you attack your opponents central body-line. Located in that
> center are a lot of targets, like the face, the groin, throat, etc etc.

Not really.  The Centerline principle means that you try and controll
the centerline, more in reference to your own.  You do not have to be
lined up to your opponents centerline to be in controll of your own,
nor are all strikes up the center of your opponent.  The targets are
the same as in any martial art; anywhere that does damage or give you
the desired effect.

The Centerline principle relates more to your own centerline rather
than to your opponents.
In fact, Randy Williams did a REALLY nice article on Centerline 
relationship (maintaining, changing, regaining, etc) in the September
'92 issue of Inside Kung Fu.  Complete with diagrams and photographs.

> WC uses punches, grabs, fingerjabs, lowlevel kicks etc. etc.
> Well trained WC practitioners are very skilled in-fighters, and will allmost
> always pull themselves to you. One weakness I found in my training hall was
> that the training started to get more tournament-oriented, but that could
> differ from dojo to dojo.

Differn't terminology, but WC is Chinese, and is generally learned in
a Kwoon.  The only reason I'm brining this up is because it leads me
to wonder if you had authentic WC training.

As for the competition aspect, that's entirely a personal aspect.
Generally, WC training is not competition oriented.
  
> S> I wear contact lenses, my eye sight is rather poor without them.
> S> Is that going to be a problem in practice ?

> Not at all. In fact, one of the excercises I liked most when I was training
> WC, was sparring blindfolded. WC relies very much on touching & feeling.
> There an excersise called 'sticky hands' or chi-sao in which you do nothing 
> else than feeling the other guys hands/arms for an opening.
 
Interesting.  Do you mean you did two handed Chi Sau blindfolded?
That's usually not done after awhile, and from you explinations, it
doesn't sound like you were in it long enough to be at the level.  Not
that your explinations are wrong or that I'm cutting you down, just
that the answers have the depth of someone who just started WC.

You explination of sticky hands is a good example of what I'm talking about
 
>PS: The best way to find out what WC is like would be to train it for a while.

Definitely agree.


Marty

Do
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Nike Style Tai Chi?
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:42:36 GMT
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: drury@helix.nih.gov's message of 7 Oct 92 05:45:34 GMT


In article <1992Oct7.054534.20638@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:

   In article jwalters@stsci.edu writes:
   >In article schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
   >> 	Dave, you're just so knave.
   >
   >Uh, I think you meant naive.

   Nah, he's just being rediculous.  [What *is* that tapping sound.]

Listen jerk.  I'ts "reticulus".  

tap tap tap.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Subject: Where/how to learn ninjitsu?
Originator: shulick@navajo
Reply-To: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Vallen Software
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 02:01:53 GMT


Are there places in the U.S. that teach ninjitsu? (ninjutsu, how do you spell
it?)  I heard (rumor) that Steve Hayes was the only person in the U.S. who
could legally teach it.  Also, what does ninjitsu consist of?  What do they
teach, exactly?  I assume the training is very vigorous.

-- 
Sam Hulick          | "F_ck George Bush!!"  --About half the U.S. population
shulick@indiana.edu |
(NeXTmail welcome)  |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: wado-ryu
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:14:16 GMT
Organization: University of Utah

In article <BvqzAH.9rL@cs.vu.nl> psiegma@cs.vu.nl (Siegmann P) writes:

   I've started practicing Karate about 4 weeks ago, and yesterday I found out that
   the style is called wado-ryu.
   Could someone tell me something about what the name means, its origins, its 
   differences with other styles, etc

	Here is what little I know about Wado Ryu.

	Wado ryu was founded by Otsuka Hironori around 1920.  It arose
as a synthesis of Judo (which Otsuka had studied since he was a
child), and the Karate taught by Funakoshi Gichin.  Many consider
Otsuka to be among Funakoshi's most gifted students.  Otsuka lived
about ninety years, and was still giving skillful demonstrations when
he was in his late eighties.

	The name Wado comes from the characters "wa," meaning peace
and harmony, and "do," meaning the way, or path.  Thus Wado is
sometimes called "The Way of Peace" in English.  Wado is one of the
"Big Four" Karate styles in Japan (the other three being Shotokan,
Goju, and Shito).

	Physically, the Wado style is characterized by three types of
motion: Tai-sabaki (body-shifting), Noryu (riding), and Nagashi
(side-flowing).  These refer to ways of avoiding an enemy's blow while
using the same body motion to power a counterblow.  The footwork
borrows from Judo and Kendo, and the fighting style tends to be light
and quick, instead of heavy and powerful.

	The kata of Wado ryu are divided into two classes.  The basic
class of kata are called Pinan kata.  They are numbered one through
five.  The advanced class of kata comprises four forms: Naifanchi,
Kushanku, Seishan, and Chinto.  In traditional Wado ryu, there are
only these nine kata, though many Wado students supplement their kata
training with kata borrowed from other styles.  Among the commonly
borrowed kata are Jion, Bassai, Niseishi, Rohai, and Wanshu (Enpi).
It is my observation that many Wado dojo make up their own "pre-kata"
forms as teaching tools for novices.  Even among the nine essential
kata, I have observed a fair amount of variation between dojo.

	In Japan, several top-rated University Karate teams practice
Wado ryu, including Todai (Tokyo University) and Nichidai (Nihon
University).  In University-level competitions, Wado fighters tend to
stick with punches.  About 80% of the points scored are punches, and
about 80% of the punches are directed to the head.  The kicks are
almost exclusively front and roundhouse kicks to the body.

	When Otsuka Hironori died, his son Jiro assumed the name
Hironori, and assumed the title of head of the Wado ryu.  This did not
sit well with many of the founder's older students, who felt that they
were better suited to carry on the teachings.  The older students
formed the Wado Kai, and distinguished themselves from the Wado ryu.
It is my understanding that this political rift has still not healed.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
From: seibl@Q.nas.nasa.gov (Michael J. Seibl)
Subject: Re: Steven Seagal
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 00:45:16 GMT
Reply-To: seibl@Q.nas.nasa.gov (Michael J. Seibl)

In article <g90p4494.7.718375168@giraffe.ru.ac.za>, g90p4494@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR CG PACELLA) writes:
|> In the September 1992 issue of Black Belt magazine there was an article "In 
|> Defence of Steven Seagal".  In the article there was a paragraph or two on 
|> Seagal at an Aikido seminar in California.  Does anybody know where aikidoka 
|> can get in touch with Seagal for training?  I heard he has a dojo in Japan 
|> and the US, but have no idea where in the USA.  Can anybody help?  I'd like 
|> to get in touch with him....
|> 
|> C.P.
|> Rhodes University
|> South Africa

-- 
       Segal has a dojo in the West Hollywood section of Los Angeles, Californiait's on the corner of Santa Monica Blvd. and Holloway. If I could think of the 
name of the studio I could get you a phone number.  Probably doesn't help much.
I could tell you how to get there if you ever get to Los Angeles.                                                                       
	"Before enlightenment, one carries water and chops wood.
           After enlightenment, one carries water and chops wood."
			ZEN Proverb
Seib Seibl   Computer Science Corp. NASA/Ames Research Center
             Moffet Field, Ca       Harware Support Engineer
	     (415) 604-4620

Seibl@Q.nas.nasa.gov
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Cost Differences???
Date: 9 Oct 92 03:00:41 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Oct8.223331.24340@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> ddukhovn@nyx.cs.du.edu (The Great Harlequin) writes:
>I don't know what dojo arashi means (but I'm willing to learn), but the com- 
>petition I'm talking about is actual aggressive (but sportsmanlike) tastes for
>victory beaten into a pro-dojo patriotic frenzy and directed an another school.

"Dojo arashi" == "dojo storming". It refers to the once common practice of
establishing one's reputation by barging into dojos and carving the sensei and
the seniors (usually *not* in that order ;-) ) into little, bitty, pieces.

Steve
From: pitargue@cisco.com (Marciano Pitargue)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Under Siege
Date: 17 Oct 1992 00:15:19 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Incorporated
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: lager.cisco.com

and all this about realism.  come on, there are about
2000 sailors and marines on a battleship.  and the marines
are armed and on duty at *all* times.

i don't think 30 "waiters" can take on 2000 men.

but other than that, it was ok.  entertaining to say the least.

:-)

marciano pitargue@cisco.com
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: White vs. Black Dragon Kung Fu
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:46:27 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <Bw0szq.1to@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!) writes:
>Yes, Pa Kau, means 8 "something or rather"

pa kua chang = eight trigram palm

Al
From: mhirsch@atomic.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Mystic names (was Re: Cost Differences???)
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:39:20 GMT
	<1992Oct8.91248.8824@ms.uky.edu>
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science
Originator: news@nimaster

>>>>> On 8 Oct 92 13:12:48 GMT, cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) said:

CY> I, for one, do not "hang such mystic and power" on Japanese.  I
CY> also find it silly to see some master of street-ryu karate running
CY> around barking Japanese words - it brings to mind Merton's story
CY> about the religious significance of the bound cat.

CY> But Japanese is a subtle, fluid language, in which one word can
CY> mean many things and have shades of meaning - at least that is
CY> what I recall (and perhaps all) from my study of the language long
CY> ago.  So I don't think it unreasonable to believe that a word such
CY> as "sensei", although literally meaning "teacher, may connote more
CY> than its literal meaning.  

As proof of what you rea saying, "sensei" is a perfect example.  Its
literal meaning is not "teacher" but "born before".  As Scott
Machaffie says in the glossary he posted:

sensei: instructor. sen means ``before'' and sei means ``born''.  The
literal meaning of the word is ``one who is born before''; thus, the
one who is born before you is your teacher.  This refers less to
chronological age than to the teacher's wisdom.  In spiritual terms he
or she is my elder, and thus my teacher.

Knowing this makes "sensei" have many more connotations of respect and
wisdon than does "teacher".
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771       
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts