From: as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: I like Ace, dag-nabbit! AND SO DO I
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:38:11 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Nov8.163226.281@rivers> ph9991_manfr@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu writes:

>> 
>> 
>> I don't care whether I can relate to Ace.  I care whether I like her or find
>> her interesting.  This is what makes a memorable character, as opposed to an
>> identifiable character.


>?!?!?!?!?!?!?!   Huh?!?!?!!?!!?!?!?!?

>You don't care whether or not you can relate to the characters you're
>watching?  That IS what makes a character interesting!
>That was the point of having companions in the first place, and for the
>first time in the series' history they had a kid who was much more realistic
>in her attitudes and actions than in the past and it worked wonders.

I hope you're not sufficiently out of touch with reality to tell me that you
can relate in any comprehensive way to the Doctor, and yet I think most
people will admit that he is an interesting character.  I don't want to
watch myself on the screen, I want to watch a character.  Maybe you found
Ace realistic; if she is, then give me escapism any day.

>> Again...I don't care.  Romana and Leela had it all over this pouting,
>> sullen, thoroughly irritating little brat.  Dysfunctional family or no,
>> screaming or no, she was just an abrasive character.

>What was so abrasive about Ace?  She's wicked!  She's 'brill!   

Well, now, that's the height of intellectual argument for you.  She was a
little brat!  There, now we're both being intellectual.

>Are you sure you and I are watching the same character?   This is Ace,
>not Melanie or Susan.  Ace as in strong kid who won't take any crap from
>anyone and likes to blow things up.

So?  There are too many people in this world who won't take any "crap" from
anyone and like to blow things up.  We just voted one out of office,
fortunately.  Maybe I dislike Ace because she's the least Taoist character
on the show...I happen to like Taoism.

>> 
>> She's still worse than Adric.  Adric had a certain boyish charm when at his
>> best.  Ace, at *her* best, simply used ridiculous expressions of approval
>> at which I spent lots of time snickering ("ace," "wicked").

>It's called "slang," and at the time, those words were quite popular in
>Britain. (Many still are)

"Slang?"  Really?  Gee, I've never heard that word before!  (sarcasm)

Slang or not they sound stupid coming out of her mouth.  But, like, you
know, maybe slang can, like,  sound smart, you know?  Maybe, like, it's not,
you know, obnoxious after all!

>Ace worse than Adric?    Whilst I like Adric, I cannot for the life of me
>see how anyone in their right mind could possibly think this!

Guess I'm a lunatic then!

>> 
>> This might have been nice if (a) she were charming enough for us to care
>> about her hangups, and (b) these hangups were resolved.  As far as I can
>> tell, her major step forward was losing her fear of water.  That's character
>> development?

>She was charming because she was majorly flawed, a character trait too often
>missing in companions.  
>As for the resolutions, that's a lot of what "Curse of Fenric" is about
>with the "baby is your mother" bit and the symbolic cleansing of herself in
>the waters at the end.
>Yes, Drewcifer, that's character development.

The Sixth Doctor was also majorly flawed and most people don't find him
charming (although I do).  Adric was also majorly flawed.  So if her hangups
were resolved, why does she continue to be obnoxious?  Why does she act no
differently than before?  That's *not* character development.


>> 
>> Too bad, deal with it.  If you don't want to read, don't bother to post.
>> 
>> And may I point out that a million points of logic will not help me like
>> Ace.  I doubt that you care...so you can drop it unless you have a stronger
>> purpose in mind than changing my opinion.  It seems everyone but me loves
>> the little strumpet so why are you arguing?  I'm a Scorpio, I'm too stubborn
>> for this sort of thing to work.  :)


>I think Avon on "Blake's 7" put this best (whilst talking to Vila):
>Vila:  I'm entitled to an opinion.
>Avon:  It's that you think we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.

>You're in the vast minority Drewcifer, and you keep responding to everyone's
>posts about this too, making you a very, very vocal minority, so do us a
>favor and quit posting about it.

Well, I could point out that if it weren't for vocal minorities the civil
rights movements (race, women's, gay, etc.) would never have gotten
anywhere, but as I am not starting a "loathe Ace" movement I will stop
posting.

As soon as you do.


Drewcifer