HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lsloan@nova.gmi.edu (Lance Sloan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
Subject: Re: Distance in the Holodecks
Date: 10 Oct 92 19:40:14 GMT
Organization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI

cap36406@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Carlos A. Pero) writes:

>I have a question regarding spatial relationships in the holodeck. I don't
>have any of the tech manuals for the show, and I've only seen a few episodes
>address how the holodeck works. So hopefully, someone out there can explain
>this to me.

>In "Encounter at Farpoint", Data demonstrates the mechanics of the holodeck
>to Riker by throwing a rock at the wall. I believe he then babbles something
>about the illusion of distance how the holodeck allows movement, or something
>to that effect.

>Fine. I can understand the holodeck would somehow "move" the occupant
>backwards in the room (if walking a great distance) so that they do not
>collide with the physical walls of the holodeck. Probably by shifting the
>holodeck-controllable ground like a treadmill. But what would happen if
>two people were in the holodeck simultaneously, and walked apart from each
>other a distance greater than the actual confines of the room? Would they just
>be a set distance and the holodeck somehow fool their vision to make them
>appear farther away?

Souds reasonable to me.  I think the holodeck would create some sort of
lenses and/or prisms to give the illusion of distance.  These lenses
would appear between the two people.

Or, the computer could "cloak" the two people and draw holograms of them
on the walls at a great distance away.

Lance Sloan
lsloan@nova.gmi.edu
From: william@cs.arizona.edu (William (Dragon) Hertling)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
Subject: Re: a question....
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:15:07 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <QeqoMOC00Uh7Q4ppJG@andrew.cmu.edu> ha09+@andrew.cmu.edu (Harith Jameel Alkhafiz) writes:
>As far as electromagnetic pulses from a nuke affecting 24th century
>computers, wouldn't most of the computers be digital by then?  Yes, I
>have the Tech Manual, but it's not with me at this moment.

As far as I know, almost all non-specialized computers in existence today are
digital. They would still be wiped out...

Maybe you meant that in the future they might have photon circuits, vs. 
electron circuits, and that is very possible (in fact, we may have that
within the next 10 years), but the ST:TNG Tech Manual does not say that
they use light-based computers, so I assume they are still using 
circuits of a more conventional nature.

william@cs.arizona.edu
From: judson@watnxt2.ucr.edu (Michael Judson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
Subject: Toilets on the Enterprise (TOS)
Date: 11 Oct 92 00:56:26 GMT

Did anyone notice in Star Trek V what Kirk was sitting on when he, McCoy,
and Spoke were placed into the brig?  He was standing against the wall
with a sign that said "Do not use in space dock."  He then pushed a button
and out came a seat.
On trains, the bathrooms have signs that say "Do not use in station" because
the waste is flushed directly over the tracks.
Thus, was this thin that Kirk was sitting on a toilet?


--
"I drank what?" -- Socrates

judson@watserv.ucr.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: tmike@cmptrc.lonestar.org (T. Mike Howeth)
Subject: Re: Distance in the Holodecks
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 03:45:08 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <0pyzdd=@rpi.edu> liebea@rpi.edu writes:
|     Ah... The question becomes whether the holodeck has a general system for
|handling all such special situations.  I mean, did the original programmers
|expect people to bring a long rope into the holodeck?  Or is the computer
|smart enough to figure out what to do in real time?

There is no algorithm for determining the solution, in a typographical
(mechanical) way, of every problem.
	- Turing [ obviously extended beyond his proof ]

--
tmike@cmptrc.lonestar.org                                               __
"Whoever said 'getting there is half the fun'                           \/
    has never ridden in a class 8 probe!" - K'Ehleyr
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: jwindley%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Jay Windley)
Subject: Re: Transporter Energy
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:26:40 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <451zr!m@rpi.edu> petitc@rpi.edu writes:
>IF they DO convert the transportee into subspace, why can't they just:
>
>(1) Convert the person into energy

I'll disclaim right up front any special knowledge of nuclear physics,
but Einstein's equation leads me to believe that this would just be a
phenomenal amount of energy -- more than I'd want to deal with.

>(2) Transmit the energy through subspace (bypassing shields and the like)

The problem with transporting through shields, as I gather from the
Tech Manual, is a question of bandwidth.

Energy does penetrate the shields, but only under controlled
circumstances.  Subspace transmissions, sensor pulses, and so forth do
not "bypass" the shields.  Rather, the shields are modulated --
"cycled" may be a better term -- so that there are effectual "windows"
in the coverage during which communications and sensor operations are
performed.

Okay, bandwidth.  Given that the pattern buffers for the transporter
have a limited capacity for retaining information, one could argue
that the transmission of transporter information and material consumes
a very large bandwidth -- you have to get all the matter (or energy,
if you prefer) plus a description of the quantum state of the entire
transported subject from point A to point B before the pattern
degrades.  There may even be other, more constraining effects.

So you just can't dribble the transporter signal through the shields
like other signals.  It HAS to be done quickly, and when it can't be
done quickly, it can't be done at all.

Okay, we haven't talked about "The Wounded," where O'Brien transports
to a shielded ship with apparently no problem.  I'd submit that Miles
O'Brien was the single most qualified person to do this.  Having been
a tactical officer, O'Brien probably knew the shield modulation
algorithms inside and out.  His current post as transporter chief
makes him an expert in the other field necessary.

>(3) Reassemble the person

Here's where my knowledge of physics shows its holes.  Given that a
certain amount of matter can be converted to a certain amount of
energy (and vice versa), how do we know what kind of matter produced
what kind of energy?

Put another way, if you transport a Twinkie, how do you know which
energy came from the cake and which came from the filling?  Once it's
energy, isn't this information lost?

The solution would be to transmit a description of what the finished
product is going to look like, and I'm sure that's done no matter how
the matter travels.

I just prefer the Tech Manual's description of the process as a
transfer of the actual material without converting it to energy.  It
seems better to avoid dealing with all that energy.


--------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Jay Windley                     | jwindley@asylum.cs.utah.edu
Department of Computer Science  +---------------------------------------
Univ. of Utah, Salt Lake City   | Error non est sed facilitas.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: jvigneau@cs.ulowell.edu (Joe Vigneau)
Subject: Re: Within the Transporter Beam (Realm of Fear)
Keywords: wow, hand, me, another, beer
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:35:43 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.130229.28285@news2.cis.umn.edu> crick@hiv.med.umn.edu (Ed Crick (CD)) writes:
>
>Whoa, cool !!  An alternative to cryogenics.  If someone has a terminal 
>disease, all they need do is energizer him, and save the information in
>the Enterprise's Hard drive.  Then when a cure is found they can de-energize
>him and treat him.  Seems like there would be lots of people stored this
>way, because they still can't cure all diseases.
>
>Hey, there'd also bee no need for prisons, or penal colonies, as criminals 
>could also be stored.  And all that stuff cluttering up the attic or the
>basement in your 24th century split-level, energize it until you need it.
>That way you and your wife won't fight when she wants to through out all
>your important stuff, like you high school letter jacket, back issues of
>Playboy-the next generation: Girls of Rigel-7.
>
>Ed

I think I read in the TM that things could only be stored in the pattern
buffer for about 420 sec (=7 minutes). I don't know of any [criminal
sentence | disease | wife's flames] that last for 7 minutes...:)
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
PaperNet: Joseph W. Vigneau         | InterNet: jvigneau@cs.ulowell.edu
          71 Lilley Ave.            | +-------------------------------+
          Lowell, MA 01850-1505     | | THIS SPACE FOR RENT           |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: demehise@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Derek S Emehiser)
Subject: Re: Saucer Separation of 1701
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:15:14 GMT

In the novel "Flag Full of Stars" the saucer section of the original enterprise
was landed at the San Fransico yards to complete a refit. This was done so that
the gravity generators could be shut down and still carryout tasks that are
eaiser to perform with gravity. It was later launched under impulse power and
joined with the secondary hull in orbit in drydock.
From: ha09+@andrew.cmu.edu (Harith Jameel Alkhafiz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
Subject: Re: a question....
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:56:42 GMT
	<13OCT199204170407@jane.uh.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Action Project, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

As far as electromagnetic pulses from a nuke affecting 24th century
computers, wouldn't most of the computers be digital by then?  Yes, I
have the Tech Manual, but it's not with me at this moment.

###
9 9
 -

Jameel
Physicist-At-Large, a.k.a.
Kid Kirby, net.hero extrodinaire
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: crick@hiv.med.umn.edu (Ed Crick (CD))
Subject: Re: Within the Transporter Beam (Realm of Fear)
Keywords: wow, hand, me, another, beer
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:02:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.202417.18668@rtsg.mot.com> svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda) writes:
>|
>|	That wouldn't refer to the technology.  According to TNG tech
>|manual, when beamed, the body is broken down into the matter stream which
>|is stored tempararily in the Pattern Buffer which is then beamed to the
>|remote site (or vice versa) in the lay tearms, the body is not half here,
>|half there, but it goes to a storage - 
>

Whoa, cool !!  An alternative to cryogenics.  If someone has a terminal 
disease, all they need do is energizer him, and save the information in
the Enterprise's Hard drive.  Then when a cure is found they can de-energize
him and treat him.  Seems like there would be lots of people stored this
way, because they still can't cure all diseases.

Hey, there'd also bee no need for prisons, or penal colonies, as criminals 
could also be stored.  And all that stuff cluttering up the attic or the
basement in your 24th century split-level, energize it until you need it.
That way you and your wife won't fight when she wants to through out all
your important stuff, like you high school letter jacket, back issues of
Playboy-the next generation: Girls of Rigel-7.

Ed
From: redearth@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Adam J Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
Subject: Re: Turbo lift question.
Date: 10 Oct 92 23:27:49 GMT
Organization: Victoria University of Wellington

In article <880840m.3.718752217@ace.acadiau.ca> 880840m@ace.acadiau.ca (MICHAEL ALEXANDER MCKAY) writes:
>
>During the Post-Atomic Horror, a cultural/technological upheaval occured 
>which resulted in the permanent loss to humanity of both the stairwell 
>and the doorknob.

Does that upheaval also include the loss of the circuit breaker and
seatbelts?
(Perfect scene:  A console explosion blows a crewmember out of his
seat right towards a turbolift, which opens for him.)

-- 
Adam Baker
redearth@kauri.vuw.ac.nz
Disclaimer:  Don't blame me.  I voted for Bill and Opus
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: baylor@nebula.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Re: a question....
Reply-To: baylor@nebula.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 19:14:43 GMT

In article <QeqoMOC00Uh7Q4ppJG@andrew.cmu.edu>, Harith Jameel Alkhafiz <ha09+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>As far as electromagnetic pulses from a nuke affecting 24th century
>computers, wouldn't most of the computers be digital by then?  Yes, I
>have the Tech Manual, but it's not with me at this moment.
>
Computers are digital now! What did you MEAN to ask?

On the subject, one of the more nuclear hardened technologies available now
is the old-fashioned vacuum tube. It is harder than integrated circuits
for reasons related to why they AREN'T commonly used anymore. I'd go 
into the technical details as I understand them, but it isn't my field, 
and I'd probably get picked to pieces on the terminology.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: cosc1871@rosie.uh.edu (92F06787)
Subject: Miscellaneous Questions...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 06:18:00 GMT

Does anyone know of any Romulan/Orion/Gorn vocabulary and character set?
I am working on a programming project and would be very grateful for any
help.  Also, Vulcan vocabulary/character set would be great too.

Actually, *any* alien vocabulary/character set would be terrific...


Another humble programmer :)  Please reply to COSC1871@JETSON.UH.EDU
From: david@scilab.lonestar.org (david burgess)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
Subject: Re: Within the Transporter Beam (Realm of Fear)
Date: 15 Oct 92 09:33:57 GMT
Organization: Science Lab; Arlington, Texas

880840m@ace.acadiau.ca (MICHAEL ALEXANDER MCKAY) writes:

> >Doesn't the Tech Manual say a person can be stored for up to 420 seconds?
> You're right, it is 420 seconds. The lost crewmembers from the other ship 
> were sustained in the beam only due to a phenomenal energy input from the  
> nearby stars' plasma stream. My point was, it's impractical to use 
> suspension-in-transport as a form of cold storage because of the immense 
> ongoing power requirement.
> 

In TOS, I believed Spock "somewhere" would beam in non-living things and 
half way through the transport he would have the pattern for the whole 
object and abort the transport but keeping the pattern in the computer 
supplied by minimal(sp?) energy. But then again, it is strictly not canon
since I "think" it was in "Spock's World".

			Don't Eat Yellow Snow

David Burgess
david@scilab.lonestar.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: CARA22@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Jeff Frager)
Subject: Re: Transporters as Weapons- Why not?
Organization: Motorola
Date: 13 Oct 1992 15:01:40 CDT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: jfarmer@fraser.sfu.ca (Jason Michael Farmer)
Subject: Re: Transporters as Weapons- Why not?
Keywords: transporter, weapon
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:25:34 GMT

castillo@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Arcel Castillo) writes:

>Well, I'm not sure this qualifies, but in the episode when Picard is
>vacationing on Risa (Captain's Holiday?) he destroyed an artifact called the
>tax-utat (sp?) using Transporter Code 33.  He ordered a 3 second delay,
>placed his communicator pin on the artifact, and we saw it go up in a small
>explosion.  Couldn't this technique be used on any desired target?

Possible, but remember that transporters cannot penetrate shields

The how is it in the latest episode that Scottie and Georgi were
transported from the ship they were on and the shields were up?

Jeff Frager
From: lawson@ecst.csuchico.edu (M. Todd Lawson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
Subject: warp overshoot
Date: 12 Oct 1992 17:36:34 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu


  Ok, This may have been answered earlier, but...

  When the ship is travelling at warp 7 or 8 and they come up on a planet,
  a few micro-seconds will put them light-years away from the planet they
  want to stop at. #1 always just says "Take us out of warp, Data" or some-
  thing to that effect. Just those words wouyld send them past out entire
  solar system.

  Just curious,

  Todd.

  Lawson@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu


-- 
===============================================================================
M. Todd Lawson -- Lawson@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu
916-343-0759   California State University, Chico. Computer Engineering Dept.
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: liebea@jec327.its.rpi.edu (Adam Fred Lieberman)
Subject: Re: Bio filters in transporters..
Reply-To: liebea@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:46:30 GMT

In article <EJH.92Oct13182355@khonshu.colorado.edu>, ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:

|> Then there's computers - the ST TNG computers are basically just the
|> same as the ones we have. They talk about how powerful their computers
|> are, but everything that they ever do with those computers on the show
|> could be duplicated fairly easily today! 

     Really?!!  Then using 20th-century I/O devices, I could interact with
an intelligent simulated person onscreen.  After all, the holodeck does a
very good job of creating beings that act like real persons.  While the
physical lifelikeness of the holodeck is not available, the actual determination
of how the person behaves is done by a computer.  If you can tell me how
to do this please do so right away.  There are some fictional characters
I'm quite eager to have a chat with.
     In reality, telling computers to do what they already do everyday using
plain English would quickly baffle any computer that can be designed today.
Sure, we have programs with limited natural language capability, but the
complexity of the language necessary to effectively communicate concepts
outside very limited domains is still beyond what a computer can manage.
Of course, ST TNG computers sometimes stumble over the occasional quirk of
human expression (which, by the way, seems to contradict their ability to
simulate people), but they do a damn good job of understanding what the user
wants.  In contrast, users of present-day computers often make simple blunders
in using the interface available that lead to computers performing undesired
actions whose consequences vary widely in seriousness.  This is because
computers are still not completely in tune with the way humans operate, even
when the humans know well the system for telling the computer what to do.

                                          -Adam Lieberman
                                           liebea@rpi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: jwindley%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Jay Windley)
Subject: Re: Turbo lift question.
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:21:12 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

linley@netcom.com (Bruce James Robrert Linley) writes:
>90 degrees during mid ride). (2) Why do I never see anyone taking the stairs?
>I hate it when people use the elevator I'm on just to go up one flight.

I once had a job which required me to go to different floors of a
building frequently.  The person who was teaching me the job always
took the elevator, even when just going up or down one flight.  I was
in reasonably good shape, so I decided to start using the stairs once
I was on my own.  I found out quickly that I could only do this for
about four hours before I got tired, even just going one floor up or
down.

Supposing that Starfleet has six hour duty cycles like the US Navy,
this could be a problem.  Granted that Starfleet officers are probably
in better shape than I am, it still might be a rule of thumb that if
you move about the ship a lot you should still use the turbolifts.
--------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Jay Windley                     | jwindley@asylum.cs.utah.edu
Department of Computer Science  +---------------------------------------
Univ. of Utah, Salt Lake City   | Error non est sed facilitas.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Subject: Re: Transporter Energy
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 22:46:23 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <!a2zxj@rpi.edu> petitc@rpi.edu writes:
>In article <92Oct14.170316.15211@acs.ucalgary.ca>, jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell) writes:
>|> Whoah. Since when does passing energy (etc) through subspace
>|> bypass shields? With TNG technology, thats the basis of shield
>|> operations - subspace modulations. 
> NOT!  What about the Rutian (sp?) Terrorists.  They used a transporter device
>that pushed the person through subspace, BYPASSING shields.  Its only problem
>was the humanoid flesh couldn't be transported in this way without taking
>damage.  My suggestion was to convert the person so that he ISN'T flesh and then
>do the transport.

They used interdimensional transport. You stated conversion to
energy or a subspace beam, which indicated the use of a
'transporter' like the Enterprise uses.

In any case, shields which let energy through would be pretty
useless, wouldn't they?

Joshua
From: uhs@jab.tucson.az.us (Rob Macomber)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
Subject: Re: Within the Transporter Beam (Realm of Fear)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 13:27:45 PDT
Organization: Just Another Bbs. Tucson, AZ

Nicholas C. Hester <IA80024@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:

> In article <880840m.1.718647325@ace.acadiau.ca>, 880840m@ace.acadiau.ca (MICH
> ALEXANDER MCKAY) says:
> >
> >Nope. Remember, the patterns degrade to the point of irretrievability after
> >about 1 minute.
> 
> Doesn't the Tech Manual say a person can be stored for up to 420 seconds?
> And Barclay was in the beam longer than 1 minute.
> 
> Nick

How about this: They were playing with the beam Barclay was in, trying to 
sort out the little quasi-energy things. If you leave it alone, you can 
store a person for the seven minutes. Explanation 2: It would have been 
boring to look at a transport for more than about 60 seconds :-).
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: aptev@rs6209.ecs.rpi.edu (cogito ergo sum)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
Subject: Bio filters in transporters..
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:31:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: rpi.f-1z=+-
Reply-To: aptev@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.


I was watching a considerably old show from ST-TNG..I belive the name of
the episode was "Unnatural Causes"..In this episode, they were able to beam up only those molecules of Dr.Polanski that had the molecular structure like those before she was affected by the old-age virus..If this works, and it did, wouldn't this be the best bio-filter possible?? This kind of transportation would be foolproof..why does TNG have subsequent where they still beam up individuals with unkown lifeforms if they have the knowhow to beam people??

If this posting seems vague, and confusing - let me know..I would happily try and explain my question..

Vishal.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
105 Nugent Hall					aptev@rpi.edu
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute		he62@rpitsmts.edu
Troy, NY 12180-3590				(518)-276-7208
-------------------------------------------------------------------------