From: sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha)
Subject: Re: Mattingly & Murray vs. Milligan  was: Re: Oriole News -
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:49:12 GMT

In article <5640@transfer.stratus.com> gene@ok.sw.stratus.com (Eugene Loparco) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.192806.15977@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>In article <5605@transfer.stratus.com> gene@ok.sw.stratus.com (Eugene Loparco) writes:
>>
>>Murray:		.323 OBP, .421 SLG
>>Milligan:	.394 OBP, .362 SLG
>
>I would take Murray with his .421 slg, higher batting average and more RBI's
>any day over a "slugger" with a .362 slg.  The ONLY thing that Milligan is
>doing better than Murray this year is walking.  Now I understand where you
>are coming from.  I don't value a walk as much as you and most people on the
>net do.

Hmm, well, maybe Milligan should not be labelled as a "slugger".  Maybe
think of him as a "table-setter".  Then you can see Milligan's value.  Each
team needs to have table-setters and sluggers.  The manager's job is to 
put the table-setters ahead of the sluggers.  
>
>
>>
>>Milligan's stats, although hardly earth-shaking, is hardly mediocre.  Murray,
>>however, makes an out 68% of the time he goes up there.  That won't do.
>
>I would say a .245 avg and a .362 slg is VERY mediocre.  So what that Murray
>makes an out 68% of the time, it's what he does the other 32% of the time
>that's important (alot of extra base hits and RBI's).  Milligan gets out 61%
>of the time and is hardly productive the other 39% of the time.  Last time I
>checked he had under 45 RBI and very few extra base hits (as is evident by
>his .362 slg).

He has very few RBI because he's not a slugger.  What if he was #1 or #2 in
the batting lineup?? Then his walks become very important.  Much more
so than his mediocre slugging.  Productive is a bad term to use.  He does
do something useful. He gets on base so that someone else can drive him in.
Someone else can get RBIs.  Someone has to get on base so that someone else
can drive him in.
>
>>
>>A walk is definitely *not* the most important thing out there.  It is much
>
>Then I don't understand your claim that Milligan is better than Murray.

Nelson, and a lot of others around here believe that outs are important.
An out is like the clock in hockey/basketball/football.  A team is only given
so many to use up in a game.  You don't want to waste an out.  Milligan
uses up fewer outs than Murray, thus he gives his team MORE of a chance to 
win ballgames.
>
>>less important than homers, triples, and doubles, and somewhat less than
>>singles.  However, when you are not walking and are not hitting, you eat up
>>bundles of outs.
>>>
>>>This will probably clear things up...
>>>
>>>Who's having a better year, Randy Milligan or Don Mattingly?
>>
>>Milligan.  No doubt about it.
>
>That's what I thought.  In my opinion, Mattingly is not only having a far
>superior year than Milligan but he is having a good year for any first baseman.

Hm. Now why do you say that about Mattingly?  A good year for ANY first baseman?
He's got a lot of doubles but only 10HR.  For a LH hitter in Yankee stadium,
that's not very many.  I can name quite a few first baseman who are having
better years. In no particular order, Frank Thomas, Mark McGwire, John Olerud,
Cecil Fielder, Kent Hrbek, Paul Molitor, Wally Joyner.  That's just the AL. 
I purposely left out Milligan for this discussion.  
>
>Did you ever think of defense as an important aspect of the game?  Your first
>post said nothing about Milligan being better than Murray OFFENSIVELY.  You 
>just stated that he was better.  This means that you factored in defense.  
>So would that make you reconsider or do you still hold the same views?

Just how is Mattingly's defense better than Milligan's? And how much better?
And how much is good defense worth at first base?  Isn't 1st base where a 
team "hides" their weak defensive players? Don't most good hitters become
1st basemen when their defense becomes suspect?  (In recent years note:
Molitor, Brett, Rose, Gaetti <just a joke>, Ernie Banks is another example).

Anand Sinha
Blue Jays #1 -> all the way in '92
Roberto Alomar for MVP
Juan Guzman for Cy Young....fading fast...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball