HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mja@philabs.philips.com (Michael Amato)
Subject: Re: elec. question: 2 wires per screw terminal allowed?
Originator: mja@hercules
Reply-To: mja@philabs.philips.com (Michael Amato)
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:57:06 GMT


In article <84048@bcsaic.boeing.com>, tanner@bcsaic.boeing.com (Jim Tanner) writes:
|> In article <6432@atlas.cs.nps.navy.mil> erickson@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson) writes:
|> >In article <1992Sep25.173731.10810@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> smjeff@lerc05.lerc.nasa.gov (Jeff Miller) writes:
|> >>
|> >>I just put in a new main panel and the city inspector said I was not
|> >>allowed to have 2 wires in 1 screw terminal hole on the ground/neutral
|> >>strip.  I thought that 2 wires was okay.
|> >
|> >No, the code says 1.
|> 
|> Hmmm...  I've seen panel markings that allow multiple wires per screw
|> terminal.  The neutral bus bar had holes of various sizes and the
|> larger ones allowed 2 or 3 12/14 gauge wires.  I also had an
|> electrician replace my service panel during a service upgrade - he
|> wired it with multiple wires per screw terminal and the electrical
|> inspector bought it off.  Possibly local code variations?  Anyone
|> know what the NEC says (actual citation, not "I remember reading...")?

I read the cover of my service panel (just recently installed) and it seems
to make a distinction between neutral connections and grounding. It lists
the wire size and screw torques required for neutral connections and then
gives allowed multiple equipment _ground_ wire combinations for the different
size screws. Not very clear. I started to check the NEC but got
sidetracked last night.
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Amato  DoD#0639 | "If pro is the opposite of con,       |
| mja@philabs.philips.com | then what is Congress"? - Will Rogers |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
From: epresley@brazilian.leper.colony
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: chimney question
Keywords: hideout, not-dead, UFO, lepers
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:05:05 GMT
Reply-To: epresley@brazilian.leper.colony
Distribution: usa
Organization: WallyWorld USA


  Has anyone out there ever had to put a new flue in an
  already existing chimney?

---

BACKGROUND:
I have a chimney that has no flue.  I have everything
in the chimney for a flue except the metal plate that closes
and a knob to open and close the metal plate.  It looks like 
at some point the metal plate was removed.  

Also, the top of the chimney has no cap.  I read recently that 
if you have no rain cap, rain creeps into the chimney and combines 
with the soot to form an acid that eats away at the mortar (it also 
keeps out raccoons).  The article made it sound like I need a cap.

I asked a mason how much it would be to put in a new flue and 
he said it was big bucks, ugly work...etc...

I then went to a fireplace outlet that sells all sorts of fireplace
stuff for help.  They said it was unlikely that I would find a 
replacement part (the fireplace was built with the house - 1950's).  

They suggested I trace the opening with a piece of cardboard and bring 
it to a metal shop and try to get a replacement flue that way.  I 
would have to scrounge up a opener but he seemed to think this was 
not a problem.

I finally went to another place that had a flue that is mounted on
top of the chimney and acts as a chimney cap and flue (a desert 
topping and a floor wax).  It cost about $85.


---
 Has anyone out there installed a flue/cap gizmo ?  If so, how has it
 worked for you?
From: tln@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (teresa.l.green)
Subject: Can Wood Trim Survive a Freezing Garage?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:47:26 GMT

Hello Once Again -
		   I am doing a whole house remodel and have
removed all the trim in the house.  After moving stacks of trim
for the tenth time, I'd like to move it someplace where I will
NOT be working for awhile! :-)  Since I am working in every room of the 
house, I'd like to move the trim to the garage.  I have an unheated,
detached garage and I live in Illinois. Will freezing temperatures 
adversely affect the wood trim?  This concern also applies to the doors. 
The trim is douglas fir. Since the trim is approximately 90 years old, I am 
concerned about warping and cracking. Thankyou for any comments or advice.

					Teresa
					teresa@ihlpm!ATT.COM
From: ec@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Edgar Circenis)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:26:02 GMT
Subject: Re: elec. question: 2 wires per screw terminal allowed?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

In misc.consumers.house, smjeff@lerc05.lerc.nasa.gov (Jeff Miller) writes:
> I just put in a new main panel and the city inspector said I was not
> allowed to have 2 wires in 1 screw terminal hole on the ground/neutral
> strip.  I thought that 2 wires was okay.
> 
>  The box can have up to 24 breakers but there are only 28 screws on the
> terminal strip.  If each screw could only handle 1 wire than the box
> would need  48 screws.

I think it's code just about anywhere that you cannot have more than
one wire per screw terminal, whether that be in a panel, on a light switch,
on an outlet.

If you need more than one wire to contact the same terminal, you should
make a "pigtail" by using a wire nut to connect your two (or more) wires
to a single wire running to the screw terminal.

Edgar
From: vallath@vishnu.foo.tek.com (Vallath Nandakumar )
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Gas piping question
Keywords: natural gas dryer
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:57:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.


Hi,

I want to install an extension of gas pipe to my new gas
clothes dryer, and was wondering where I could get some
do-it-yourself information on it.  A book or videotape would
be great.  None of the DIY books I looked into had it.  Maybe
it is not considered a DIY job?  It is just a few feet from
the 1" gas pipe to my appliance.

Vallath Nandakumar
From: nall@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Replacing bad heating element in hw heater
Date: 4 Oct 92 15:28:21 GMT
Followup-To: misc.consumers.house
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

Do any of you do-it-yourselfers happen to know whether or not
it is feasible to conemplate replacing a bad heating coil in a hot
water heater?  (Feasible in the sense that the old one can be
taken out, a replacement can easily be purchased, and this
sort of thing occurs on a routine basis).

As a "for example," replacing a bad heating element for an
electric stove is a normal thing.  Is the same thing true for
a hot water heater?

Thanks for suggestions which come from knowledge :-)

John

--
John W. Nall              | Supercomputer Computations Research Institute
nall@mailer.scri.fsu.edu  | Florida State University, Tallahassee, Florida
  "Unfortunately, the keeper of the flame seems to be burnt out :-(  "
                                         - another gem from little ol' me
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Sears tools (was Electric Drill Recommendation)
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:32:47 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research and Environmental Staff

In article 8575@mcc.com, breland@mcc.com (Mark Breland) writes:
|>
|>Although not ever quite so knowledgeable and studied on the subject of
|>electrical drills as a couple of the more retentive respondents, I originally
|>posted a recommendation of Sear's based on experience/cost/durability.
|>Apparently, Sears' quality has diminished over the years, guess that means
|>my tool was acquired when it was the best available for the price paid.  Or
|>maybe I'm just one of those statistically insignificant who actually get value
|>out of their purchased goods and are happy about it.  As for having an IMHO...
|>hey, that's life, my drill makes holes and doesn't die. ;)
|>

You don't need to apologize for recommending Sears tools. The original
request was for a drill to be used by someone new to
do-it-yourself work.

I have been doing woodworking and home remodelling for almost 25
years and have a number of Sears tools, including both stationary
and portable power tools. I have retired several as I progressed in
my woodworking skills and took on more ambitious projects. But this
just means that my requirements changed.

I have had only two fail. One was an orbital sander that I had used 
extensively for 10 years - I think the fiberglass dust got to it. The 
other was a low cost drill that I wore out after 15 years of moderate 
use. I didn't feel that I could complain about either of these.

The only time I felt that I had a legitmate complaint had to do with
a service contract. I bought a shop vac on sale that was bundled
with a service contract. The salesman told me that the service contract
included replacment filters. After getting a free filter once a month
from the Service Center, they decided that the service contract did not
include filters. I wrote to the Sears store manager and got an apology
for the sleazy salesman's behavior and several filters. 

IMHO (OK, I'll use it), the people who bad mouth Sears tools are either
buying a $29 tool and expecting it to perform like a $200 professional
model, or don't check into what the warrantee says before buying. My
own impression is that you get the about the same value at Sears that
you would in any of the do-it-yourself level of tools in any
of the big names like Black & Decker or Skil.

You will see much the same discussion in rec.woodworking, but the
people complaining are comparing a $400 Sears table saw with one
from Delta that costs $1500.




---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research and Environmental Staff
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.
From: erickson@atlas.cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Being jerked around by a bank
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:18:03 GMT
Reply-To: erickson@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson)
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

We recently applied for loan refinancing from two lenders (Fremont
Bank and GMAC).  We've had no problems with GMAC, but Fremont Bank:

	appraised the house 10% lower than GMAC
	refused to adjust the appraisal based on comps supplied by
		our realtor (their appraiser said his comps were better,
		but he admitted that he did not know the area)
	one month after we applied, they reduced the appraisal by an
		additional X% (their underwriters do not like to loan
		on land ... we have four acres, but they never mentioned
		this point in any of our previous conversations)
	coincidentally, the X% reduced the amount they were willing to loan
		by the amount of the loan points (2%).  The loan officer 
		pointed out to us that we could qualify for a zero point 
		loan, and our net would be the same.

It sounds like a scam to talk me into a zero point loan (at a considerably
higher APR).

Could I take them to small-claims court to try and get my loan application
fee back on the grounds that they misrepresented my chances for getting
a loan?

-Dave Erickson
From: JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Brrrr...Pellet stoves anyone?
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:17:10 GMT
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.

In article <1992Sep28.173634.22985@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com>, kam@hpcvxkm.cv.hp.com
(Keith Marchington) says:
>
>Well, it's getting to be that time of year.  There's a nip in the air
>and the furnace is going on in the morning.  Time to start thinking
>about alternatives.  (Why is it we always wait until it's cold to
>start thinking about these things?)
>
>So my wife and I, who have had woodstoves in the past, but now have
>just a cheesy zero clearance fireplace, are thinking PELLET STOVE.
>But frankly, we don't know much at all about them.  So I turn to the
>collective net.wisdom and solicit from you ideas, reviews, and
>opinions about pellet stoves/inserts.
>
>Come forth with information, oh net.pellet_stove.gods.  Enlighten me
>and other curious seekers of pellet stove knowledge an lore. :-)
>
>
>Keith Marchington
>email:  kam@cv.hp.com

This question was posted in misc.consumer awhile ago, but I never saw a reply.
 Mother Earth News reviewed wood stoves, including the pellet stove, within the
last year.  The jist of it was they are simple to use (just pour in the pellets
) and often gave constant heat (especially if they had a screw drive feeder).
Another advantage was the potential availability of fuel - the pellets can be m
ade from anything from waste wood from mills to ground up corncobs from grainer
ies (theoretically).  You have to find the availabitlity of such pellets.  Evid
ently, you can go to some large supermarkets and buy them.  Pellet stoves are n
ot my solution since wood is often free here in the Upper Peninsula (assuming
your labor is "free."  We get permits to pick up the slash and waste logs from
land companies after they cut.   A summer of on and off cutting can provide
  enough wood.  A     less labor intensive option  (here in the U.P.) is to buy
cull logs at apporx 40 dollars a cord (usually a 10 cord load).  I have no
idea how much pellets cost, but probably more than that.

JCLEWIN @ MTUS5.BITNET

Houghton county, MI.  I here we will have a low snow year this year.... Shucks.
(Low snow means less than 200 inches......)
From: ark@alice.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: IN-LINE WATER HEATERS
Date: 26 Sep 92 13:04:20 GMT
Reply-To: ark@alice.UUCP ()
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ

In article <MACRAKIS.92Sep25114253@lakatos.osf.org> macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) writes:

> In article <laird.717360240@stable.ecn.purdue.edu> laird@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird) writes:

>    I think that many of the posters to this thread are neglecting one
>    aspect of the cost/benefit ratio.  I see unlimited hot water to be
>    a great benefit.

> A properly sized hot water tank should be sufficient.  One classic
> error is to buy a whirlpool bath with a larger capacity than one's
> water heater...!

My house has an oil-fired water heater.  While it's running, it consumes
one gallon of oil per hour.  That's enough to heat about 100 gallons of
water.  Because the tank is only 30 gallons, the heater runs only 20 minutes
or so to heat up a full tank from cold.

If you think about it, you will see that it is capable of sustaining a flow
of hot water indefinitely up to about 1.5 gallons/minute.  Whether that's
enough for a very long shower depends on what showerhead is in use.  A
whirlpool bath would be no problem at all.
-- 
				--Andrew Koenig
				  ark@europa.att.com
From: rav@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (reinaldo.a.valenzuela)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Method and products to clean and protect P.T. wood deck??
Summary: How do I clean and protect my 5 years old deck?
Keywords: deck, wood sealer.
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:24:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

What is the best method to clean and
protect a wood deck??

My 5 years old pressure treated
wood deck is showing signs is
discoloring and splinttering.

I would like to brighten and
even up the color and protect it
from the whether as well as prevent splinters.

Is power washing a good way to start?

What wood sealer/preservative would
you recommend??, application method??


Thanks in advance.
R. Valenzuela
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: tsuser@.oracle.com (TEAMSELL user)
Subject: URGENT: Need House Cleaning in SF!
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont CA
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:49:41 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

ODHi all,

Well, I took the plunge and just bought my first home. It was all very 
exciting until I took a look at the place -- it's a total and complete MESS. 
Before I can get started on this quaint little gem (read "Fixer-Upper"),
I've GOT to get someone in there to clean it up. I haven't moved anything 
in yet.

Could anyone recommend some cleaning people that will bring their mops and
brooms and clean out this dirt trap? I've got this budgeted, but
cost-effectiveness is always appreciated. It's located in San Francisco.

HELP ME!!!


Thanks bunches,

			Susan

8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 
Susan Longworth
Applications Technical Representative
Oracle Corporation
Redwood Shores, CA
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: tom@oracorp.com (Tom)
Subject: Re: siding options?
Organization: ORA Corporation
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:09:03 GMT

foley@meteor.wisc.edu (Jonathan Foley) writes:
: Hello!  My wife and I are living in a very old wooden house (it was built in
: the 1870s).  Paint does not last very long on this beast.  It was painted every
: 8 years or so for the last 30 years without much luck.  Paint just seems to
: peel right off the sucker.   We don't want to do this.  So, we are considering 
: the options for various kinds of siding and such.  


I wouldn't complain about paint jobs that last eight years.  That's not bad
at all, especially in your climate.  If it's peeling in big chunks, you likely
have an interior moisture problem.  Replacing the clapboards isn't going to
fix that problem.  And if that's the case, covering the existing siding is
likely to mask other moisture related problems.  Besides, you're not going
to get new clapboards that are any more seasoned than what you have up
there already.  If they're not all rotted out, no reason to replace them.

But my guess is that the moisture probably isn't that bad considering your
climate, unless you're venting a clothes dryer inside, or something that
would equally dump a lot of moisture into the house.  If that were the
case, generally you would see a localized spot on the house that's worse
than the rest of the house.

If the flaking and peeling is pretty uniform throughout, it's probably
just weather beaten paint.  But I can sympathize with you about not wanting
to paint a 3 story home.  Eight years never seemed so short. ;-)

-- Tom
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: sad@sei.cmu.edu (Susan Dart)
Subject: Re: House buying frustration...Result
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:53:02 GMT


I'd like to thank the many people that responded to my post. Your advice was
useful and supportive.

What we did was give the sellers a 24 hour ultimatum to stop their outrageous
demands and come to agreement. This worked and now we have an agreement and
the closing will be at the end of November and everything looks great for
now.

The lessons I learned are:
	
	- Being nice and reasonable with overly demanding sellers
	  is the wrong thing to do because they will abuse that
	  niceness and reasonableness.

	- There are good realtors and bad ones. The bad ones will
	  be very passive and merely act as conduits between the	
	  buyers and sellers rather than be actively involved in
	  the negotiations (as good ones do).
	
	- Be prepared to walk away from a house; don't fall in 
	  love with it until closing day.

Thanks again to everyone who responded to my post.

Susan Dart
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: vonzelow@adobe.com (Jon von Zelowitz)
Subject: old light fixture
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 02:13:54 GMT


Before painting the living room, I took down the 1920's-vintage hanging
light fixture. Now that I'm done painting (yay) I dragged out the fixture to
put it back up.

I noticed that the visible wires looked pretty worn. A closer look revealed
that the wire was a vintage type, insulated solely with two layers of fabric
(cotton?). I took the fixture apart (I'll spare you the details) and found
that much of the insulation had degraded to dust. Eek!

I replaced the (cruddy, corroded) lamp sockets and rewired everything. Keep
this in mind if you have old light fixtures.

   Jon von Zelowitz   vonzelow@mv.us.adobe.com   ...uunet!adobe!vonzelow
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Electric Drill Recommendation
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:03:19 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ

In article <1992Oct1.005135.5910@Armstrong.EDU> frazier@Armstrong.EDU (Doug Frazier) writes:
>I want to buy a really good, durable 3/8" VSR drill for general homeowner
>use.  Can anyone recommend models and good mail-order sources?  Many thanks.

In 1973 I bought a Milwaukee "Hole Shooter". I don't believe there's
anything better on the market, and mine is still going strong. "Tools
on Sale" has Milwaukee tools in their catalogue, but Home Depot price
is within a few dollars. Mine is not variable speed or reversible, but
they certainly make one.

patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | Of course truth is stranger than fiction; after
                    | all, good fiction must make sense.
                    |                        Samuel Clemens
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: erickson@atlas.cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: elec. question: 2 wires per screw terminal allowed?
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:48:58 GMT
Reply-To: erickson@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

In article <1992Sep25.173731.10810@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> smjeff@lerc05.lerc.nasa.gov (Jeff Miller) writes:
>
>I just put in a new main panel and the city inspector said I was not
>allowed to have 2 wires in 1 screw terminal hole on the ground/neutral
>strip.  I thought that 2 wires was okay.

No, the code says 1.

> The box can have up to 24 breakers but there are only 28 screws on the
>terminal strip.  If each screw could only handle 1 wire than the box
>would need  48 screws.

>Is my inspector wrong?  Is my way of doing it dangerous?  Is there
>some way of adding an additional terminal strip?

I just installed two subpanels and a service entrance panel.  One of the
subpanels was a G.E. 200 amp, which came without equipment grounding strips.  
I had to buy them separately, and there was room to install at least three.  
The box was predrilled and tapped for the grounding strips.  The other 
subpanel was a Westinghouse 75 amp, and it came with equipment grounding 
strips, as did the G.E. 200 amp service entrance panel.

-Dave Erickson
From: drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re:    FREE REFINANCING
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:56:58 GMT

in article <1992Oct6.200916.27098@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie) says:
> 
> In article <1asnr8INNpc9@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com writes:
>>In article 111851VANCE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Valery Nesterov <VANCE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> () writes:
>>>
>>>We have loans at NO COST at all to you!!
>>>We'll come to your home to fill the application.
>>
>>How about tomorrow night?  I live in Cary, North Carolina.  Say, 5:30?
> 
> I'm interested too! How 'bout this evening around 8:00? I live in Somerset,
> New Jersey (just down the road from Ed).
> 
> patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>                     |
> George Patterson -  | "Zero Defects": The result of shutting down a
>                     |    production line.
>                     |         Kelvin Throop - The Management Dictionary
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

I am also interested please come over to my house after you are done
with George.

Oh, by the way I live in Denver Colorado.

-- Dave Burritt