HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding)
Date: 4 Oct 92 00:28:14 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.space
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <28SEP199219445933@judy.uh.edu> wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes:
>Therefore demand would 
>increase greatly, while lowering the cost of our overall industrial process.
>If this were an American enterprise, this could put our basic industries
>that rely on platinum based catalytic processes to become more cost 
>competitive on a world basis, which would help ease our balance of payments
>burden and begin to bring terrestrial wealth back into this nation.

How?  If you lowered platinum costs by a factor of 10, how would you
benefit "American Industries Inc." more than "Japan Industries Inc."
After all, Japan Industries Inc. could buy your cheap platinum on the
spot market just as easily as American Industries Inc.

Xref: sparky sci.space:13613 sci.astro:10159 talk.politics.space:1289 alt.politics.bush:6778 alt.politics.clinton:7324
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: another sad anniversary
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:19:56 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <1992Oct1.140736.1@mdcbbs.com> rivero@mdcbbs.com writes:
>  With the latest in high-tech radios and computers now available, couldn't
>your basic University Astronomy Department set up an Earth Station?

Equipping it with a 30m dish and liquid-helium-cooled maser amplifiers
is still going to be rather expensive.  Those improvements in technology
haven't passed DSN by; the data-transmission rate from modern planetary
missions is many times what it was twenty years ago.  You really need
performance close to that of DSN to get good data from Magellan in
particular, because it's an extremely data-intensive mission.

To get high data rates from far away, the basic laws of physics pretty
well dictate that you need (a) a big dish and (b) very-low-noise amplifiers.
Nothing you can do with "the latest in high-tech radios and computers" will
get you around those two requirements, both of which are expensive.

Your basic U.A.D. perhaps could set up an Earth station good enough to
receive from a 1965 planetary mission.  Unfortunately, they aren't
launching those any more.
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
From: bafta@cats.ucsc.edu (Shari L Brooks)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: UFO EVIDENCE VS. Carl Sagan
Summary: Actually, this was "Hangar 13"
Date: 7 Oct 92 00:22:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California - Santa Cruz, CA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


I see Mr McElwaine has given up on sci.physics and moved here.  :(

In article <1992Oct6.170715.1564@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu 
writes:
          
>                           UFO EVIDENCE VS. Carl Sagan

oh, no.  I had no idea they were contending.

[stuff deleted]
    
>               I should think that by now he would have heard about the 
>          Roswell Incident in which UFO WRECKAGE and ALIEN BODIES were 
>          found on a ranch (in New Mexico, I think), gathered up by the 
>          U.S. military, and hidden away in an Air Force hanger 
>          somewhere.  The wreckage included materials NOT KNOWN on 
>          Earth, and some of it even had ALIEN SYMBOLS written on it.  
>          All of this was witnessed by many People, both civilian and 
>          military.  A couple of years ago, the TV program "Unsolved 
>          Mysteries" showed an excellent segment about the incident. 
    
I think that you may be confusing the program with a terrible science fiction
B-movie entitled "Hangar 13".  This movie was so bad that the scene where
the shuttle astronauts looked out their window while on orbit showed black
space, no stars.  But it is for the most part summarized in the above quote.

[more *stuff* deleted]

>               This is supposed to be a FREE country.  FREEDOM OF 
>          SPEECH is guaranteed by the highest law of the land.  The 
>          government (and its military) is supposed to be of, by, and 
>          for The People, NOT the other way around.  People need to 

Wait a minute.  Didn't your last post to sci.space claim the government was 
Bolshevik?  I could swear it did.  Did you change your mind?

>                                   Robert E. McElwaine
>                                   B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC
                                    ^^^^three guesses what it stands for

I restricted distribution cuz our friends overseas shouldn't have to read this.

-- 
If you blow fire against the wind, take care to not get the smoke in your eyes.
      Big & Growly Dragon-monster        |       bafta@cats.ucsc.edu
     ------> shari brooks <-------       |       bafta@ucscb.ucsc.edu
                             All opinions are my own.
From: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk (Stewart T Fleming)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Date: 1 Oct 92 08:37:02 GMT
Reply-To: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk
Organization: Dept. Of Computing and Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh



higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:

>In this country, the Confederate Air Force is allowed to tell us what
>a great plane the B-17 was without visible interference...

Who was the American senator who got up in the House and said :

"The B-52 is a great war machine.  It has killed a lot of people."

and then subsequently had the written record changed to read :

"The B-52 is a great war machine which, unfortunately, has killed a lot of
people"

when worried about potential adverse affects on his popularity ?

STF
--
sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk                        ...uknet!cs.hw.ac.uk!sfleming
"I go out walking after midnight, searching for you..."
  -Patsy Cline
From: rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff Bytof)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Observer orbit
Date: 1 Oct 1992 23:15:02 GMT
Organization: sio
NNTP-Posting-Host: lutherlab.ucsd.edu


>Some of us actually have software designed for interplanetary trajectories,
>believe it or not.  Please give us heliocentric elements, *not* Ra and Dec.
>We can compute Ra and Dec ourselves if we know where the thing is.

Could we also have the geocentric elements for Galileo at the time
of its next (and last) Earth flyby?  Please?

Pretty please? I promise not to hurt the spacecraft.  :-)

Jeff Bytof
rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com (Dillon Pyron)
Subject: Blue Danube
Keywords: Blue Danube PanAm
Reply-To: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com
Organization: TI/DSEG VAX Support
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:39:51 GMT


I'm sitting here on hold to DEC CSC, listening to the Blue Danube Waltz on
their hold music.  For some strange reason, I have visions of sleek Pan Am
(RIP) 'liners slowly spinning across a starfield.  Have I gone nuts, or should
I put up my 2001 tape for a while?
--
Dillon Pyron                      | The opinions expressed are those of the
TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support    | sender unless otherwise stated.
(214)462-3556 (when I'm here)     |
(214)492-4656 (when I'm home)     |"Repay kindness from a stranger by kindness 
pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com          | to another stranger."
PADI DM-54909                      

Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary
From: amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.AC.UK
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Southern Cosmospheres
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:13:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bvo1LL.Kvp.1
Distribution: sci
Organization: [via International Space University]
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

> As an adjunct to the Confederate Air Force (CSAAF), we have the  
headquarters
> of the Confederate Space Command (CSC) located in Paint Rock  
Alabama.  

> Our office gained unnecessary publicity when our SPACE SPHERES were  
seen
> 


And it is a well known fact that the CAF (based in Harlingen, Texas)  
has the third largest air force in the world... Hmmm.  ;-)
Xref: sparky sci.space:13761 sci.astro:10264 talk.politics.space:1322 alt.politics.bush:7207 alt.politics.clinton:7835
From: loeb@ai.mit.edu (Eric Loeb)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: (none)
Date: 26 Sep 92 22:39:13 GMT

Subject:  AUTOMATED CLINTON/GORE MAIL SERVICE
 
 Bill Clinton and Al Gore are committed to bringing all Americans 
 into the American political process -- for the good of our country.  
 At this critical time in our country's history it is imperative that 
 we all do everything in our power to make our system work.  
 
 We are happy to announce a new step forward in 21st century 
 democracy: We now have a mail server that will allow you, the 
 internet citizen, to receive on-line campaign documents and send 
 your comments and ideas back to us.
 

 To learn more, send mail to the automated Clinton/Gore mail server 
 
    clinton-wins@mail.clinton-gore.org



 RECEIVE THE LATEST SPEECHES:
 
 If you send the Subject line "info speeches" to the mail server, 
 you will receive all the latest Clinton/Gore speeches as soon as 
 they come on-line.


 RECEIVE ALL AVAILABLE POSITION PAPERS:
 
 If you send the Subject line "info all" to the mail server at, 
 you will receive the full set of Clinton/Gore position papers.


 QUERY THE CANIDATES -- INTERNET POLL:
 
 If you have a question for Bill Clinton or Al Gore, then send your
 question to the mail server ("clinton-wins@mail.clinton-gore.org")
 with the Subject line "question propose".  

 Send the Subject line "question get" to get the current numbered 
 list of questions.  

 Send the Subject line "question vote <X Y>" to vote for questions 
 number <X> and <Y>.  For example, you would send the SUBJECT line 
 "question vote 3" to vote for question number 3.

 Each week the questions with the most votes will be forwarded to 
 Little Rock.

 
 SEND YOUR SUGGESTIONS & COMMENTS

 If you have a suggestion for Bill Clinton or Al Gore, then send your
 suggestion to the mail server ("clinton-wins@mail.clinton-gore.org")
 with the Subject line "suggest propose".  

 Send the Subject line "suggest get" to get the current numbered 
 list of suggestions.  

 Send the Subject line "suggest vote <a b c>" to vote for suggestions 
 number <a>, <b>, and <c>.  For example, you would send the Subject 
 line "suggest vote 18 4" to vote for suggestions 18 and 4.
 

 The questions, suggestions, and the campaign's responses will be 
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 information by sending the Subject line "volunteer email distr" 
 to the mail server at

 clinton-wins@mail.clinton-gore.org
 


 Clinton/Gore '92
 Volunteer Email Effort
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: testing please ignore
From: system@fallout.lonestar.org
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:50:20 CST
Followup-To: sci.space
Organization: DECUS DFWLUG BBS *Dallas*TX*

testing please ignore

Newsgroups: sci.space
From: pgf@srl05.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering)
Subject: Re: Clinto and Space Funding
Organization: University of SW Louisiana
	<1992Sep28.163120.16536@medtron.medtronic.com>
	<1992Sep29.110902.9094@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:27:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.110902.9094@vax.oxford.ac.uk> clements@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:

\If your government is not accountable in the sense that you can't find where
/all your tax money goes, then there is something really wrong and someone (I
\would suggest the person at the top, Georgie boy) deserves the chop!

I think you misunderstand how the US government works. The legislative
branch has substantially more budget authority than the executive
branch.

The British system is apparently more unified, with your "administration"
consisting of legislators who over here would be Committee and Subcommittee
chairmen...

I had made some interesting comments about the rest of the article, but
I think I'll deal with it later. I had accidentally deleted the reply
the first time, and I don't feel like repeating myself...

--
Phil Fraering pgf@srl0x.cacs.usl.edu where the x is a number from 1-5.
Phone: 318/365-5418 SnailMail: 2408 Blue Haven Dr., New Iberia, La. 70560
"NOAH!"
"Yes Lord?"                          - Bill Cosby
"HOW LONG CAN YOU TREAD WATER?"
From: ssouth@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (Steve South)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:19:38 GMT
Subject: Re: V-2 anniversary
Organization: HP Scientific Instruments Division - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: sci.space

In sci.space  techno@zelator.in-berlin.de (Frank Dahncke) writes:

>In <28165@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM> wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson) writes:

>>Trivia question: Which city was targeted and hit by the most number
>>of V-2s?

>Amsterdam, Holland.

Pardon me for asking, but wasn't Amsterdam occupied by the Germans at the
time? Was the V2 the secret Ost-Friesian weapon? :-)

Steve.
From: DOCTORJ@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Jon J Thaler)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:01:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: SLACVM.92280.080134DOCTORJ
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <Bvp7qx.6qy.1@cs.cmu.edu>, amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk says:

>> That still doesn't make it right.  Not persecuting people for crimes
>> against humanity because they may be useful to you is wrong.  Period.

> I am in agreement. However my reading of history does not place the VfR group
> very much in this. As was stated, they were not in SS, and in fact there were
> attempts to take them over. Von Braun and the commander there had to play
> some Byzantine politics to try to stay independant. Remember that the SS
> existed because the German Army was not considered "reliable" enough to do
> Hitler's real dirty work.

I think a quote from Tom Lehrer illuminates von Braun's attitude:

     "'Now I'm learning Chinese,' says Werner von Braun."
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: treitel@gracie.IntelliCorp.COM (Richard Treitel)
Subject: Re: Clinton and Space Funding
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:53:24 GMT
Organization: preferably none

In article <1004@dgaust.dg.oz>, young@wattle.dg.oz (Philip Young) writes:
|> Government involvement, at least initially, is crucial because of the high
|> infrastructure costs.  No private outfit is going to ante up the billions

Private outfits often spend billions on building an office complex or
developing a new jetliner.  These efforts don't even have a guaranteed
payoff (look at Canary Wharf!) but the companies broadly understand the
(i) technological (ii) legal/regulatory conditions under which such projects
will make/lose money.  WRT most space development the technology is more
difficult to predict and laws/regulations/treaties practically impossible.

Note that comsat development was covered by a treaty long ago.

		- Richard
From: wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Sputnik I - 35th anniversary
Date: 5 Oct 92 00:20:30 GMT
Organization: Alpha Science Computer Network, Denver, Co.

35 years ago today, the world's first artificial earth satellite was
launched. Before October 4, 1957 the earth had but one moon. Today
the earth has approximately 7000 moons.

-- 
Bruce Watson (wats@scicom)  Tumbra, Zorkovick; Sparkula zoom krackadomando.  
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: cwr@theory.asd.sgi.com (Carl Rigg)
Subject: Columbia SSME #3
Reply-To: cwr@sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA.
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:04:08 GMT

Does anybody know the serial number of the replacement SSME for
engine position #3 on Columbia?
thanks

	Carl

=======================================================================
	Carl	(cwr@theory.asd.sgi.com)	(7U-550 415-390-1063)
=======================================================================
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Space and Presidential Politics
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:48:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: ke4zv.1992Sep29.134818.8741
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Followup-To: talk.politics.space
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1469100016@igc.apc.org> mwgoodman@igc.apc.org (Mark Goodman) writes:
>
>I can only conclude that if you care about space so much that you
>would base your vote on the issue you have 1) little to go on and
>2) loose marbles.  Get real!  Space is not and should not be a big
>issue in this Presidential election.  The issues are how to
>strengthen the economy and give people real opportunities to
>improve their lot while reducing the deficit and the burden of the
>national debt and healing the divisions in our society.  Without
>that, NASA is going nowhere.  Only a prosperous and united society
>will support space exploration.
>
>So don't lose the forest for the trees.  Vote on the big issues.
>Vote for Bush and Quayle if you really believe that they are
>better for the country as a whole (I certainly don't), but don't
>vote on the basis of dimly defined space policies.

The first rule of politics is that all politics is local. In this
group, the local issue is space policy and space funding. Maintaining
the poor in thrall to Big Brother government is not a local issue here.
Healing political divisions is not a local issue. Getting a handle
on fiscal policy *is* a side issue that we must consider since
sharp cuts in space funding would be damaging to our local interests.

Your contention that only a prosperous and united society can support
exploration is clearly false. Looking at the history of exploration,
and even looking at our world competitors in exploration today show
that it is precisely contention and competition that drives exploration.
A nation of contented sheep doesn't look up.

Gary
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: daryl@dman.b24a.ingr.com (Daryl Owens)
Subject: Re: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both?
Organization: Intergraph Corporation
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:32:55 GMT



                         Bravo!!!!


If it were not for Von Braun and his team coming to Hunstville and 
doing their thing, I would not be gamefully employed during tough 
economic times (and I'm not dependent on NASA or the government).

 Daryl Owens
Huntsville, AL
From: PHARABOD@FRCPN11.IN2P3.FR
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: What is this ?
Date: 2 Oct 92 13:52:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BvHyxu.5IC.1
Distribution: sci
Organization: [via International Space University]
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

Carl Hage writes (30 Sep 92 22:52:50 GMT):

:  Seconds after    Heading                    Speed    Altitude
:    lock-on       (degrees)                  (knots)    (feet)
:
:       00            200                       150       7000
:       01            200                       150       7000
:       02            200                       150       7000
:       03            200                       150       7000
:       04      sharp 200          acceleration 150       6000
:       05       turn 270             = 22 g    560       6000
:       06            270                       560       6000
:       07            270                       570       6000
:       08            270                       560       7000
:       09            270                       550       7000

>It must have a warp drive since it managed 1000 feet of altitude change
>while going only 150 knots (253 f/s).

Not necessarily, since the altitude displayed on the F-16's Westinghouse
APG-66 radar display screen (upper right hand corner) has only two
digits. 07 means 7000 + or - 500, 12 means 12000 + or - 500, etc...
So in this report, 7000 could be 6501, and 6000 could be 6499.

J. Pharabod
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Mfsc.Nasa.Gov
Subject: Re: another sad anniversary
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:17:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.133115.10677@ke4zv.uucp>, gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes...
>In article <1OCT199219492037@judy.uh.edu> wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes:
>>
>>The dowlink path loss is -278 db from the moon.
> 

>Anyone willing to spend a couple of thousand dollars could receive
>a 1 watt signal from the Moon with sufficient margin to decode digital
>data, or copy analog voice. An EME grade station is probably still
>required to pick up video, or high bandwidth data.
> 
>Gary KE4ZV

Gary my figure if from the Lunar Observer mission baseline published at JPL
in 1991.  This is the baselne for all future missions and the link margin
is discussed extensively in there.  What is your source? I will look it up
in the ARRL hanbook just to see what they have.

Dennis

KD4ETA former WB4KSF
From: ralph.buttigieg@f635.n713.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Ralph Buttigieg)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: SPS
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:25:12 GMT
Organization: Fidonet. Gate admin is fido@socs.uts.edu.au

Original to: Roberts@Cmr.Ncsl.Nist.Gov
 to roberts@CMR.NCSL.NIST.GOV (John Roberts), via *IXgate 3:713/602

 r> According to Steve Willner, if you choose 10.6um (handy 
 r> because that's what
 r> a CO2 laser put out), then the main absorption is by water vapor, at
about
 r> 1% per millimeter equivalent. So it wouldn't heat the upper atmosphere
 r> significantly, if you choose a high, dry site for reception there
wouldn't

 But how do you convert the laser light back into electricity?
 Photovoltics? Does not sound very efficiant to me.

 r> by the greenhouse gases released by fossil fuel. Space-based solar power
 r> would also heat the Earth much less than ground-based 
 r> solar power generation.

 Why? Ground based collectors would use the energy coming to Earth
 already.   I must be missing something.
 ta
 Ralph

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Vulcan's World-Sydney Australia 02 635-1204 (3:713/635)
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Clinto and Space Funding
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:18:08 GMT
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Sep29.110902.9094@vax.oxford.ac.uk> clements@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>
>I would suggest one area that need serious consideration are lung cancer
>subsidies (ie. the money given to the tobacco producers which goes to subsidise

I can't let this old chestnut pass. Tobacco is the *one* agricultural
product where growers do *not* receive money from the government. It
is the one program that works because the government limits the amount
of tobacco a given producer can sell. This keeps supply low enough that
it sells at a profit. The government does *not* pay a subsidy to the
farmer. Instead a clerk at the ACS office fills out a permit once a
year, about 5 minutes of government clerk time goes to each tobacco
farmer in the district. That's *it*.

Gary
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: Dickson@SYSTEM-M.AZ05.BULL.COM (Paul Dickson)
Subject: Re: Atlas E and F questions (Actually Pershing missile)
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Organization: [via International Space University]
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: sci
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 10:25:11 GMT

    From: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>

    In article <1992Sep22.123319.27134@access.digex.com> prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes:
    >That makes me wonder.  when the US started retiring all those old
    >Titan II's and Pershing missiles, were any considerations
    >made to try using them for science?

    The Titan IIs are in storage, earmarked for refurbishing as (military)
    launchers.  I believe the combination of treaty limits on methods of
    disposal and treaty deadlines made it impractical to do much with the
    Pershing 2s, which were in any case a bit small for use as launchers.

I know that the Space Data division of OSC has Pershing 2 hardware that
wasn't destroyed.  They will be using some of it in a launch at White
Sands on Oct 27.  I'm not sure what I remember exactly what was said,
but the engines (and possibly guidance?) were destroyed.

I toured the Space Data facility in Chandler, Az last Friday.  Some how,
the hardware doesn't look as impressive when its spread about a room in
functional pieces. :-)
Newsgroups: sci.space