From: Hans_Bergengren@p1.thulos.bbs.bad.se (Hans Bergengren)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Its a sad sad day...
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:22:10 GMT
Reply-To: Hans_Bergengren@p1.thulos.bbs.bad.se (Hans Bergengren)
Organization: THULOS!, STROMSTAD, SWEDEN
OD-Comment-To: Skip_Sauls


 SS> In article <1992Oct10.210025.15846@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson
 SS>  Daniel A) writes:
 SS> >In article <OA92-901-306p1_59F96F10@piraya.bad.se
 SS> >Hans_Bergengren@p1.thulos.bbs.bad.se (Hans Bergengren) writes:

SOMEHOW! all intreresting replys to my messages get lost! VERY frustrating...
I'm not trusting my point setup via this InterNET Gateway very much (hence my
strange email address...), so excuse me if I can't answer directly to Mr.
Stephenson. 

 SS> >I really bother me that people post 'Windoze is dog slow', without any 
 SS> >qualifications.

Qualifications? Like, a master's exam in computer science (or whatever it's
called in English, I hope you get the meaning of it)? :-)
I've USED Windows, if that's what you mean, Daniel. And I think it's slow.
Dead slow, most of the time, in fact, whereas the Amiga A3000s I've used
FLIES! I just can't wait until I can afford to buy an A4000, with fourfold
speed increases in both graphics speed and program execution...

 SS> >For all we know, he's running at 1024X768X256 unaccelerated on an
 SS> > 80286.

As I said in previous postings, I've used Windows on an 80286, 386 and 486.
I've also (briefly) used OS/2 2.0 on the same 486 computer that ran Windows
(it was a 33MHz model with SVGA), Windows was VERY SLOW on the 286, SLOW on
the 386 machines (both 25 and 33MHz), and somewhat lagging on the 486-33. But
the machine ran Wing Commander just fine... Everything just whooshed by (oh
my, what was that? An asteroid! >BAAAOOOUUUUMMM!!< Game Over!)
I couldn't say that OS/2 was fast either, it certainly was faster than my 14.3
MHz 68000 w/ 32 kB cache, but it wasn't as distinctive in the handling (hard
to explain the feeling). Compared to an A3000 at 25 MHz, it clearly fell
behind.

 SS> >>It OUGHT to be! FAST (33MHz 3/486DXs) are pretty cheap and popular
 SS> >>nowdays, but I still think that there's a noticeable lag in
 SS> >>everything you do.
 SS> > What?  Now you agree that it can be fast?  Oh, but there is still lag?
 SS> > How? My 386/33 has no accelerated video card, yet IMO Windows is indeed
 SS> > pretty fast.

I'm NOT saying that it is fast! I'm saying that it'd better not be dead slow,
since the CPU is so powerful! And while you may think that Windows may be
fast, I wonder if you've used an A3000? I mean, you certainly won't see the
windows being painted on the screen with THAT machine. WHAM! There it sits.
BANG! There you moved it.

 SS> >> SD> All I was pointing out was that there were ZERO hassle in
 SS> >> SD> upgrading CPUs.
 SS> >>So what? Isn't this how things SHOULD be? Is it something to boast
 SS> >>about?
 SS> >Sure, it's a great thing.  Now people can upgrade CPUs only, without
 SS> >buying the extrea hardware.

But this extra hardware is required to make the chip run at top performance!
Upgrading old motherboards with new CPUs IS to some extent, a waste.

 SS> >>harddisk controllers, and parallel/serial connectors. I'd like to see
 SS> >>that be done with your Intel Overdrive socket...!
 SS> >For the system's this discussion concerns, the other equipment is
 SS> >usually top notch anyway.

Running via an 8MHz ISA bus? Oh MY! But with the Amiga solution, that means
that you will have FIVE (count em'!) card slots free! Accelerator, 32MB RAM,
SCSI-II, serial/parralel connectors all on one card in one DEDICATED CPU slot.
You WON'T waste anything, occupy any precious space, because the space is
ALLOCATED for that option!

 SS> >There is certainly an advantage to getting a
 SS> >double-clocked 486 with out dumping your old non-doubler 486.

Doubled clock rate isn't the greatest way of increasing performance. You'll
get wait states at each and every system bus access, and clock-doubling
solutions have been around for AGES! Even the Mac IIfx (was it?) used this
technique, even the Atari TT did it (16 MHz system, 33 MHz CPU/FPU).
No big deal!

 SS> >Heh he, trust me on this one.  The zero insertion CPUs are SO SIMPLE,
 SS> >even my MOTHER could do it.  And that is saying a LOT.

Oh yeah. That's GOOD. But how about configuring the REST of the system,
messing around (and then I mean *MESSING*) with IRQs, DMA channels, and card
addresses! Not the technology of the 90's if you'd ask me!

 SS> >I would hardly say that switch a 486/33 CPU
 SS> >to a 486DX2/66 CPU would *waste* a lot of the better CPU.

You DO get waitstates while accessing the bus, don't you? (YESSS!)
Your RAMs may not be the fastest in the world, your motherboard maybe isn't
the best, either. After all, it's ONLY the CPU running at twice the speed, no
big deal!

 SS> >I don't know all th ins and outs of NT, but from what I have read, it
 SS> >will offer all that UNIX provides

It seems like many people look at Win NT and see a potencial UNIX killer. I'm
not worried. UNIX is established. UNIX has a large S/W base, and is used all
around the world. And frankly; Win NT seems to be EVEN SLOWER than the
ordinary Windows versions. What a laugh! In the future, we will probably need
a whole Cray just to make Win NT v55.7 run, let alone EXECUTE anything.
The Amiga OS reduces overhead in each version, Windows increases!

 SS> >Plusses >to NT include Windows, DOS and probable OS/2 compatibility.

8088 emulation on an R4000? Makes me want to throw up... :-D

 SS> >Keep in mind that NT is meant to run on powerful 486, 596s, Alpha, MIPS
 SS> >R4000,and multiprocessor machines.  We're not talking about average
 SS> >'users' using a MIPS R4000 , are we?

Considering that Win NT during a preview on some show in the US a while ago
practically crawled along on an optimized Compaq 486-50, you'd BETTER run it
on any of those machines...

This directed to Daniel Stephenson, SORRY for any inconvenience!


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