HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sulkanen@xanth.msfc.nasa.gov (Martin Sulkanen - NRC/ES65)
Subject: Re: "Why I hate System 7..."
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:30:44 GMT

arno@apple.com (Arno Gourdol) writes:

>I would like to hear the voices of those of you who HATE System 7.
>Not those of you that do use it because you think its advantages
>(FileSharing, 
>Aliases, New Finder, Configurable Apple Menu, Inteligent System Folder,
>more robust, Baloon Help, Publish/Suscribe, AppleEvents, ...) outweights
>its
>defaults (too slow, needs too much memory...).
>So my question is what should change in System 7.x to make it acceptable
>to you?
>Would you be ready to pay for that?

I find most of what sys 7 adds to 6.0.x useless, or trivial inclusions
of capabilities that were available from third party software (eg. new apple 
menu = on cue, but with less capability). And the my 5MB IIsi is actually only
a 2.7MB machine (this should be a danger flag when the system requirements 
*halve* the available memory for a system with a reasonable amount of memory).
But then again with sys 7 I can do important things like make my hard disk
icon look like Curly Howard. Now a *real* improvement in the OS would be 
to make it truly (preemptively) multitasking, but apple isn't interested 
in doing that. They have a kilobuck OS out there to do that, A/UX.  But then 
OS/2 is only $50 bucks...hmm...time to post to comp.sys.mac.dump! I would 
like to see two things from a new mac OS: (i) premptive multitasking 
without the pain of unix (come on, this is 1992) and/or (ii) much less 
memory used (not suggestions on the net about how to strip stuff to save 300K).


|_________________________________________________________________|
| martin sulkanen      ][ internet: sulkanen@xanth.msfc.nasa.gov  |
| es 65                ][ span:     ssl::sulkanen                 |
| nasa/msfc            ][ voice:    205/544-5823     >>,--```;('> |
| huntsville, al 35812 ][ institute for troutphysics              |
|_________________________________________________________________|
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
From: Eric.Choi@p5.f57.n7000.z8.ieee.org (Eric Choi)
Subject: Cost of System Software
Organization: FidoNet node 8:7000/57.5 - The Associati, Grand Blanc MI
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 23:56:19 GMT

Now I finally will be paying for my next System Software upgrade (7.1), I am
curious about what the MS-DOS people have been paying for their upgrades all
these years? $50? $100? Less for incremental upgrade like 3.0 to 3.1?

Thanks.
--  
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
 Eric Choi - Internet: Eric.Choi@p5.f57.n7000.z8.ieee.org
From: matthew@wavefront.wti.com (Matthew Coohill)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: HELP PLEASE!!!
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:17:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: wavefron.604
Organization: Wavefront Technologies Inc, Santa Barbara, CA
X-Disclaimer: Not a spokesperson for Wavefront Technologies, Inc.


	Howdy!

	I am having problems in several areas and decided to let experts
  have a shot at handling them.

	For one, I work for a company with alot of of workstations.  We would
  like to take one of the RGBs from a workstation and hook it into a Mac for
  24-bit color.  Does anyone know of any cards for the Mac (IIfx and/or IIci)
  that will give you 24-bit on an RGB monitor (i.e., SGI, SUN, TEK, HP, etc)?

	Secondly, I have CD-ROM drives for Sun and SGI... can I use them on
  my Mac (IIsi)?  How do I hook them up?  I have an external APS drive that
  has SCSI out and I think I can chain it, but do the new SGI drives have
  a format different than the Mac?  Huh?

	Lastly/Thirdly, I am trying (desperately) to get Eudora to work on our
  Mac(s).  I am experimenting with a Classic (6.0.7), a Cayman Gatorbox CS, and
  a SUN Sparc (as the server).  We have POP-3 running on the Sun, we are using
  MacTCP on the Mac, but I can't seem to get the thin to work.  I start up as
  myself, type my password, it says "finding out local network information",
  finding wavefront.wti.com (Sparc Server) and then it says...

	"Server not responding.  The connections came up halfway and then
		failed"  {185082}

	If you know the answer to any of these questions, please reply VIA
  E-MAIL!!!  I am not subscribed to this discussion group.

	Mail me at...

		matthew@penguin.wti.com

	Thanks in advance!

  Matt Coohill
From: aslakson@pico.cs.umn.edu (Brian Excarnate)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: ARA, do I need two copies to connect two Macs?
Date: 27 Sep 92 01:05:45 GMT
Organization: :noitazinagrO

GAYNOR@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu (Jim Gaynor) writes:
>In <Bv7Cvs.6vD@news.udel.edu> bach@brahms.udel.edu writes:
>> To connect two Macs using Appletalk Remote Access software, do I need two 
>> different copies of the software?  Or, can I install the same copy on both 
>> machines?
>The Appletalk Remote Access license allows you to install and use ARA
>on two computers.  A rather wonderful little action on Apple's part.

Isn't it three rather than two?


Brian
--
Donny IS Joseph
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.system:12451 rec.arts.sf.misc:3037 rec.games.video:19554 rec.games.video.arcade:7815
From: fleming@cup.portal.com (Stephen R Fleming)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.games.video,rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: What's a good futuristic name for a Mac Duo?
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:19:42 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Re: docking spaceships...

Check out "Tom Paine Maru" by L. Neil Smith.  Sounds like exactly
what you're talking about.
From: Rob.Dewhirst@macrocosm.omahug.org (Rob Dewhirst)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: RE: System 7.1 via FTP
Date: 25 Sep 92 15:06:22 CST
Reply-To: rob.dewhirst@macrocosm.omahug.org
Organization: The MacRocosm BBS, Lawrence, KS
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.system


Jspear@frogstar.socal.com wrote:

> > [referring to advantages of sale of 7.1] 
> > > It guarantees that all purchasers will have current manuals 
> > > and a set of floppies that they can fall back to. 

To which I replied:
 
>> All _purchasers_ of system software have always had both of these.

And his reply was:

>  True, but we all know that. I was trying to contrast acquiring 
> System Software by FTP or User Group or other non-commercial 
> means versus having to purchase it.  I know that I haven't 
> paid for a System Software upgrade for the Mac for over 6 years, 
> and so I don't have current manuals. For the most part, I haven't 
> missed them, but there have been a few things I had trouble 
> figuring out. (Important things like: How do you set your home 
> city and time-zone in the Map CDEV? How do you zoom it?) 

My user group has manuals for 7.0 (provided by Apple) for loan to members, and
I always assumed that if you wanted the System for free via FTP, you
acknowledged that you did not get manuals.

It is a great idea to put together a bundled, commercial system package for
people who need it. I found that the system 7 manual did not provide much I
already did not know, and that my colleagues at work who purchased 7.0 never
cracked the manuals anyway (even though they should have).

Manuals for sale with the system are great for people that need them, but don't
make me pay for them now in system upgrades.  I have never found any Apple
"manual" to be worth the money.  In fact, I am constantly frustrated by Apple
manuals, since they do not go into the depth that many other computer manuals
do.
From: jas@ISI.EDU (Jeff Sullivan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: Lets Just Steal 7.1!
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:54:55 GMT
Organization: USC-ISI
In-reply-to: dnsurber@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov's message of 5 Oct 92 16:56:06 GMT

In article <dnsurber.718304166@node_26400> dnsurber@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (Douglas N. Surber) writes:

>I agree with you 100%.  When Apple comes out with a new family of machines
>and we all have to start over again at ground zero, fine.  If they want
>to change the level of support they will provide the users of the new
>machines, that is their call.  But Apple made certain committments to
>people who bought Macs in the past and one of those committments was
>free system software _for_ _the_ _Mac_.  New machine, new customer base,
>new committments.

I don't believe that Apple ever promised free System Software,
forever, in any explicit nor implicit way.  If you really think that
"since it's been this way, it will always be" is valid reasoning, then
we just agree to disagree on this point.

>Neither you nor Apple should assume that my next machine will be an
>Apple anything.  I use a Motif Unix box at work and it's pretty ok.
>With X11R6 and Motif 2.0 and OSF/1, you might have a useable machine.  As

Ouch.  Is Motif free these days?  How about the Unix?

>much as I hate Microsoft, the quality of their apps is good and getting
>better.  Maybe Windows NT will be a better choice . . . pretty much the
>same apps and dirt cheap hardware.  Or maybe a Next, or whatever.

Sure, if they fill your needs and are cheaper, then why pay more?  I
don't think anyone is arguing that you MUCT stay with a Mac. I sure
ain't.  (Arguing that, I mean.  I've used Windows long ernough to know
I don't plan on switching soon.  With the frequency that I add
Extensions and new apps, I'd be spending my life changing CONFIGs...)

>I have already bought (although not necessarily paid for :) ) my Macs.
>Apple has already promised me free system software. Events in the future
>that will not affect me don't compensate for breaking promises made in
>the past.

Apple NEVER, to my knowledge, promised you or anyone any such thing.
If you could document this promise, you've got a controact that will
keep them supplying you forever.

jas
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey A. Sullivan             | Research Scientist et al.
jas@isi.edu (Internet)          | Information Sciences Institute
72511,402    (Compuserve)       | University of Southern California
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
From: mrubino@csws18.ic.sunysb.edu (Michael N Rubino)
Subject: Re: "Why I hate System 7..."
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:01:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.160414.10085@ms.uky.edu> rankin@ms.uky.edu (David W. Rankin Jr.) writes:
>In article <sulkanen.717773444@xanth> sulkanen@xanth.msfc.nasa.gov (Martin Sulkanen - NRC/ES65) writes:
>>But then again with sys 7 I can do important things like make my hard disk
>>icon look like Curly Howard. Now a *real* improvement in the OS would be 
>>to make it truly (preemptively) multitasking, but apple isn't interested 
>>in doing that. They have a kilobuck OS out there to do that, A/UX.  But then 
>>OS/2 is only $50 bucks...hmm...time to post to comp.sys.mac.dump! I would 
>>like to see two things from a new mac OS: (i) premptive multitasking 
>>without the pain of unix (come on, this is 1992)
>
>Ever seen a beta of Maple running loose on a NeXT?? It happens in our
>NeXT lab a lot, and pre-emptive multi-tasking or not, that NeXT still
>slows down. IMHO, no matter the OS, when you run a bad program, you'll
>suffer, whether it be time hogging, memory hogging, or what. The Mac is
>no more succeptable here than ay other machine.

Why don't you try lowering the priority of Maple?  On my Amiga 3000 (please
no flames) I can run a CPU intensive program, say a Ray-Tracer.  This program
will suck up ALL available CPU time.  If run it at the same priority as say my
Terminal program I will see a slowdown.  However, if I give the Ray-Tracer a
lower priority, say -1, then I will not see ANY slowdown in my term program.
Since my term program is using very little CPU time (even downloading at
9600bps only uses 10%)  the Ray-Trace experiences only a minimal slowdown.

- Mike
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
From: dnwhiteh@eos.ncsu.edu (DUANE N WHITEHURST)
Subject: HELP: Option Key Stuck.....
Originator: dnwhiteh@c00750-400wi.eos.ncsu.edu
Keywords: Option Key Problem
Reply-To: dnwhiteh@eos.ncsu.edu (DUANE N WHITEHURST)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:47:11 GMT


Hi there...

I've got this intermititent (sp?)_ problem that I can't track
down and was hoping the collective intelligence of the net
could help me out...


I've got a Mac II running sys 7.0 + tuneup along with
inits like afterdark, filesaver (norton utils), beheirarch,
(a video depth gauge changer that I've forgotten the name of),
and such...

Lately, for no reason that I can figure out, the Mac will switch
over and act like i've got the option key taped down....

once it starts it doesn't stop and only a shut-down will fix it..

every program responds to keyboard input like the option key is down,
word 4.0, note-pads, the finder.....everthing..

if you have anysuggestions as to why this is happening or what I can
do to make it stop I'd love to hear them....I'm pretty sure it's
not the keyboard coz I swapped it out with a pals and it did
the same thing....

thanks for any help you can give...

				-_- duane


******************************************
you think you're having all the fun
you know me, I hate everyone!
		- trent reznor, NIN
           still mad after 4 years
******************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
From: cosc184z@menudo.uh.edu ((COSC148O) 92F00761)
Subject: Re: Sys7 filesharing - who's connected?
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 05:04:40 GMT

>>Is there a way for a program running under System 7 with filesharing
>>to find out who is connected?  The file sharing monitor doesn't say
>>enough -- i.e., it doesn't say what time a person connected, or how
>>long a connection has been idle, or what zone/node the person is
>>connected from.  This is especially important for "guest" logins.
>
>Though I haven't used it, from what I've read NokNok will do just that.
>It's currently compatible with System 7 file sharing.  Anyone know
>when the Appleshare 3.0 version is coming out?
>

AppleShare 3.0 has BEEN out. For a couple of weeks at least. Last I remember,
It listed $999 at MacConnection or MacWarehouse. Call them for upgrade prices
from 2.0.

-- 
  H  H   EEEE      K  K  U  U  EEEE  RRR   !! !!
  H  H   E         K K   U  U  E     R  R  !! !!      David Alten
  HHHH   EE        KK    U  U  EE    RRR   !! !!      cosc184z@menudo.uh.edu
  H  H   E         K K   U  U  E     R R              HE KUER!!
From: Dave_McClean@mindlink.bc.ca (Dave McClean)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Guard Dog 2.3 query
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:53:05 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

I have recently installed Guard Dog 2.3 into a LC II 4:40.  It works as
advertised in that it prevents file name changes unless the appropriate key
is pressed, but it does not stop moving files on the desktop or file copying.

Am I missing something obvious, or does v2.3 not work properly with my
configuration?  Is there a more recent version available? (I've done an
archie
search but v2.3 was the most recent version found)

The only other extras installed on the machine are Moire 3.22 and
Disinfectant
INIT v2.9.

dave_mcclean@mindlink.bc.ca
dmcclean@sfu.ca

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
From: kent@sunfs3.Camex.COM (Kent Borg)
Subject: Re: Screen Snapshot
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1992 16:23:35 EDT

In article <D88-JWA.92Oct3140334@alv.nada.kth.se> d88-jwa@alv.nada.kth.se (Jon Wtte) writes:
>> dowdy@apple.com (Tom Dowdy) writes:
>
>   I personally think FKEY 3 should have made a "click" noise, and then
>   make the shutter noise when it is all done.  But then again, maybe
>   it isn't that important... :-)
>
>If interface isn't important, then WHAT IS?

I say it should make the noise of the shutter opening when the button
is pressed and the sound of the shutter closing when the mouse has
awakened again.  Just like the noise from a real SLR camera.

IMHO, it is a major flaw to the FKEY that it kills your Mac for a time
and doesn't 'fess up that it did it nor let you know when it is done.
Playing two sounds would fix that...and be cute.

--
Kent Borg            kent@camex.com or kentborg@aol.com (when it is *working*)
                                            H:(617) 776-6899  W:(617) 426-3577
As always, things look better when some costs are left out.
						      -Economist 3-28-92 p. 94
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Distribution: world
From: Steve_Costa@bmug.org
Organization: BMUG, Inc.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 00:39:34 PDT
Subject: Re: Lets Just Steal 7.1!

What if System Software cost less than $30 for the 10 disk set and
manuals? And you could order from a 800 number?  I'm curious. What would
you rather have? Computers that don't cost a arm and a leg or free
System software? 


Steve Costa
BMUG
***************************************************************************
             From Planet BMUG, the FirstClass BBS of BMUG, Inc.
              The above message was gatewayed via PostalUnion
***************************************************************************
The message contained in this posting is entirely the poster's personal
opinion.  Any possible, real or perceived, (dis)similarities with the
views held by BMUG, are purely coincidental.
***************************************************************************
From: hp48sx@wupost.wustl.edu (HP48SX Archive Maintainer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: 7.0 errors (was: Type 1 error)
Date: 30 Sep 1992 05:52:19 -0500
Organization: Washington University in Saint Louis, MO USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: wuarchive.wustl.edu

The list presented here was not complete, and I have other solutions as
well:

Error 1+2 : You are running a buggy or non-32bit-clean program.
            This is the way Microsoft tells you to buy there newest
            version. As far as I know all their software does this.
Error 33 :  You are using Telnet 2.4.xxx, and it gets confused if too
            much activity is going on in more than one window. Relax.
Error 90 :  You bouggt a machine too small for serious number crunching,
             Go buy a high-end mac or a math coprocessor.
Error 25 :  Finder is out of memory. This is not true, but APple's way
           to say you always needs more RAM.
-- 
Povl H. Pedersen             hp48sx@wuarchive.wustl.edu
HP48sx archive maintainer

All Opinions (C) Copyright the Intergalactic Thought Association
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
From: nasadk@aix.rpi.edu (Kristopher Martin Nasadowski)
Subject: A curious problem
Summary: Trouble with System 7.0.1 w/TuneUp 1.1.1
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:55:20 GMT

I seem to be noticing some funny stuff with System 7.0.1 when I go
to empty the trash. Sometimes, the screen freezes after it draws 
the box asking me if I want to dump the trash. It freezes before it
fillis in the text, though. Sometimes it recovers and things go on
as normal. Sometimes forcing the Finder to quit causes the computer
to hang, and sometimes forcing the finder to quit recovers me out of the
freeze. It happens usually in low memory situations, but not always. It
also has hapened bfore most of my current INITs were installed, and
happened once when I had cancelled loading of all my INITs (holding
shift on bootup)

Anyone encounter anything like this?

BTW : It's a Mac IIsi, with 9 Meg RAM and System 7.0.1 with TuneUp 1.1.1

Nazman
<nasadk@rpi.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
From: calweare@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Michael Weare)
Subject: Applications not opening!
Reply-To: calweare@kraken.UUCP (Michael Weare)
Organization: Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 22:45:40 GMT

Dear Comp.Sys.Mac.System readers

I have a little problem which I hope may be easy to solve.
Recently an AppleShare 2.0 server was moved to another room, and
ever since, if a document on a user's local hard disk was opened,
the application (which resides on a mounted AppleShare volume)
does not open automatically. The usual "Document can not be opened
or printed" type message comes up as if the application cannot be
found.

But if the window that contains the application is open at the time,
and the document is double-clicked, all goes fine. I have seen this
at a couple of different places now and thought it was time to put
the question to the net.

Many thanks in advance,

Michael Weare 
Networking and Workstation Support
Information Services
Griffith University
Queensland
AUSTRALIA

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
From: birger@exemplum.engin.umich.edu (Birger T De La Pena)
Subject: System 7 printing problem.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 14:57:50 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Keywords: Network Printing.
Originator: birger@exemplum.engin.umich.edu


I have the following problem:

   I'm runnign a small localtalk network in the building that I live in 
with some of my neighbours.  I have a IIX running system 7.0.1+ and
I'm using the file sharing software included.  I have a couple of 
machines on the network that only have 1mb of ram and are therefore
running sytem 6.X  That is not a problem with the file sharing,  they
see my hard drives fine and can use everything when it comes to the
sharing.

    When it comes to the printing I have the problem that my
    laserwriter(networked) is prepped for use with system 7
    and when I want to print from the machines running system 6
    the system software wants to re-prep the laserwriter.
    Of course I think that this is completely unnecessary, it
    should be necessary to prep the laserwriter each time I use 
    a computer with a different sytem version.

If anybody has any ideas or a solution to this problem I would be very
gratefull if you could respond to me.  To avoid unecessary discusion
in the newsgroup please e-mail me to the following address:

    birger@engin.umich.edu

Thanks before hand.
From: Apgar@Apple.com (Gar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: Latest Laserwriter LS Driver?
Date: 4 Oct 92 22:41:32 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.system
Distribution: comp
Organization: Apple

In article <1992Oct3.114922.15218@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>,
hzaj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know what the version number of the latest Personal LW LS printer
> driver is?  What features does it have.  I'm trying to figure out if I have it
> or not.  Do you know if it will fix frequent out of memory error messages when
> printing?  Thanks for the help.

The latest is 7.2. And for the out of memory I would give your application
more memory or look into your extensions and CP's...

Apgar@Apple.com                   I said it, NOT Apple.
From: shipman@larc.nasa.gov (Floyd Shipman)
Subject: postscript output 
Keywords: postscript
Reply-To:  ()
Organization: NASA - Langley Research Center
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:15:02 GMT

I am trying to create a PostScript file for use on a non-Macintosh computer.  
I have done this successfully using the System 6.0.7.  On System 7.0.1 (with 
tune up) to get postscript output I selected print from the File menu, then 
chose PostScript file as the destination instead of the printer.  The 
resulting postscript prints as the original document did.  So what is my 
gripe?

The original document was a 5K Microsoft Word 5 document and the postscript 
version is a 720K document.  What is going on here?  Before I got some 
expansion but not over 100 to 1.  I have tried other applications such as 
Cricket Graph and MacDraw II with no difference.  I have tried various Macs 
and Laser Writers with no change.  The Laser Writer software is 7.1 and the 
Laser Writer Prep is V4.0.
 


Internet: shipman@csab.larc.nasa.gov
NASAmail: shipman
USnail: MS478, NASA-LaRC, Hampton, VA 23665
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.programmer