HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: ""Gay rights group files
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 12:33:04 -0600

  To: (CROSSPOST 1) ALL             Recvd: NO
Subj: ""Gay rights group files       Conf: (35) Alt.Politi
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
KI>  I realized that most cultures outside of the US see nothing wrong with bei
KI>  a homosexual, but here we have yet not consented to this ODD behavior. How
KI>  often do you see animals mating with the same sex?

Oh, come on...  Wake up!

People and animals have done same-sex probably since the beginning of
time.

Don't wrap yourself in the bible, please, most of the world doesn't pay
any attention to it, anyway.  There are lots of other religions around,
and many of them are truly humane and interested in the best of human
values, regardless of the mechanics of the situation.

And, from my experience I would say that in the US, about 60% of men
consent to this ODD behaviour, as you call it.  Wake up and smell the
coffee Kingston!

Fido

 * OLX 2.2 * Mental Floss prevents Moral Decay.

 * Origin: Dark Knight's Table (1:282/31)
From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: A Gay Republican Voice
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:37:13 GMT
Distribution: world

In <1992Nov05.222553.27167@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> Howard Black wrote:
>     It's too bad that the religious fanatical right has such a stranglehold
> on the Republicans.  It seems to me that true Republicans would support gay
> rights, drug legalization, abortion rights, etc.

The people you call "true Republicans" are Libertarians now.  Verbum sap.
-- 
					Eric S. Raymond <esr@snark.thyrsus.com>
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Can Colorado discriminate against straights?
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:08:06 GMT
Organization: Cornell Theory Center

In article <1992Nov10.205214.26096@athena.cs.uga.edu> kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count) writes:
|In article <1992Nov10.132745.44592@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> rminor@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
|>It looks to me like protection from discrimination does not give
|>special rights to gay and lesbian people, but that it protects
|>everyone from such discrimination on the basis of their sexual
|>orientation.

| valid thought.  You are right, the CO vote does mean that anybody
| can discriminate against anybody else on the basis of sexual 
| orientation.

That is completely incorrect.  Please read the amendment.
--
           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado

       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Subject: Re: Measure 9 in PBS and CBS
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United
	<1992Oct30.210115.24685@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 04:43:22 GMT

nelshou1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Roger Shouse) writes:

>If homosexuality constitutes learned behavior to any degree, then I
>can understand why parents would have concerns about the way it was
>presented in school.

This is only true if homosexuality is a 'bad' lifestyle, one to be
avoided.  I certainly don't accept this.
--
Most system flaws can be attributed to unwarrantedly anthropomorphizing the
user.
	-- T.C.Bennett@syse.salford.ac.uk
From: andy@eies2.njit.edu (Andy)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: CO-2 and OR-9 mentioned on Melrose Place
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:57:45 GMT
Distribution: alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.motss
Organization: NJIT - EIES2


Did anyone catch the reference last night to the two amendments on
the TV show "Melrose Place"?  I was amazed that they worked them
into the show so quickly.  It was a very gay-positive episode!
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri "Droopy" Farenell)
Subject: Re: I don't like homos
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:52:31 GMT

greco@elec.uq.oz.au (John Greco) writes:

>Statement of Fact.

>   I don't like homos

God has spoken.

Oh well, if John Greco doesnt like gays then they must me bad. 
We should all stop what we are doing and praise King John (before
the coup, that is).

BRI FARENELL
From: markk@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Mark Koehler)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: CO-2 Ammendment PASSES 8-(
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:48:19 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Nov4.132456.28990@oswego.Oswego.EDU> kinne@oswego.Oswego.EDU () writes:
>	However, it is not a cloudless day by any means.  I just got
>a phone call from my boyfriends Mom in Denver.  The CO-2 Ammendment
>DID PASS.  Jill said the votes were still so close that they were not
>giving actual numbers, but thatthe ammendment did pass.  If we had
>to loose any of them, perhaps its best we lost this one but...

The final statewide numbers on Ammendment 2 in CO are 53% for, 47% against.
It is important to note that both Denver and Boulder counties voted AGAINST
the Ammendment.  

Mayor Webb of Denver stated in a news conference that Denver will continue
to enforce it's current anti-discrimination policy (which includes sexual
orientation) as if the ammendment didn't pass.  The city of Denver is
fighting it on the basis of Home Rule.

A coalition has also been formed to fight this statewide.  Donations can
be sent to:
		Colorado Legal Initiative Project
		c/o P.O. Box 300476
		Denver, CO  80203

The Lambda Legal Defense Fund is also taking part in this effort.

Also noteworthy is that the City of Boulder has made a public announcement
opposing the Ammendment.  Like Denver, they will continue to enforce their
own anti-discrimination ordinances.  They are gathering petitions and are
planning to file their own legal initiative.  I was told over the phone by
the Boulder City Manager's office that "There will be NO discrimination in
Boulder."  I was also told that the entire community including the University
is in shock over this.

>	Like many citizens in the land (unfortunetly so) issues like
>this became real on election day.  Being a NY state resident I could
>have little effected the outcome yesterday.   However, could someone
>either post or email what exactly the CO-2 Ammendment was about.
>What have we lost here and on what front must the battle continue?
>
Donations to the above groups are the best way to go about this for the time
being.  It is very likely that the Ammendment will be overturned.  As far
as what the Ammendment was about, it did not go near as far as Oregon Measure
9 would have (which is probably part of the reason it passed).  It does NOT
require homosexuality to be taught in schools as being abnormal nor does it
prohibit any promotion of homosexuality in the state.  What it DOES is 
repeal any existing anti-discrimination ordinances which include sexual
orientation and prohibits future ordinances from passing.  As far as I know,
this only applies to city and state ordinances.  Private businesses still have
the right to include sexual orientation in their non-disciminatory policies.
It is important to realize that this Ammendment DOES apply to public 
institutions such as school districts.
From: steve.connelly@synapse.org (Steve Connelly) 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: any QUEER newgroups?
Date: 6 Nov 92 04:29:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: steve.connelly@synapse.org (Steve Connelly) 

BC>just wondering if there's any good solid radical QUEER or DYKE newsgroups i
BC>should know about (i'm new to this email thing). This group seems kinda, uh,
BC>conservative/het-dominated.
BC>ALSO, I'm doing an article on the TOP PROBLEMS OF HOMOPHOBIA FACED BY
BC>COLLEGE-AGE LESBIANS & GAYS. if you've got any input, i'd appreciate it.

If you really want to wake people up I'd say STAY on the conferences
that are conservative/het dominated.  Try to wake these people up....
or at least give it a shot! :)

Are you in Psych?  I have input for you also.  I will send it
privatly along with this message.  Please let me know if you recieve
it....I dont know if it is allowed on your net.
---
 . DeLuxe. 1.21 #777sa . Go ahead! Do it! You can always apologise later.
From: nmehl@rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu (Nathan J. Mehl)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: why call it hate?
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:16:33 GMT
Reply-To: nmehl@rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu
Organization: Nihilists for a Better Tomorrow

In article <1992Nov3.195235.16912@athena.mit.edu> grisha@athena.mit.edu (Grigory Golberg) writes:

>I thought we would keep from using the "f" word. I was wrong, sorry.
>Some people just can't keep from personal attacks when they have
>nothing to say. Oh well, maybe I will even comply with your suggestion.
>Maybe not.

Believe it or not, I'm going to apologize for this.  Not for the tone
of my response, mind you (you richly deserved it, and still do), but
resorting to profanity was beneath me and only hurt my own position.
Chalk it up to election-week jitters.  My apologies.

>>Otherwise, please spell out in detail how a discussion of the POLITICS
>>of HOMOSEXUALITY (that's right up there in the title, see?) would
>>be facilitated by refusing to talk about minorities.
>
>I would be glad to. Talk about homosexuality, not about minorities.
>Can you view homosexuals as something more than a minority?

Lessee here...  you take a group that comprises, at best, 10% of
the population.  It is frequently the target of violence, abuse,
job and housing discrimination (nevermind hysterical religious 
screeds every other minute) from the other 90% of the population
or at least a good chunk thereof.  The 90% often justifies its
actions by pointing out that there are fewer homosexuals than
there are heterosexuals, "proving" that homosexuality is therefore
abnormal and inferior.

And you don't want us to talk about minorities.

I'd laugh, if I weren't so tempted, in the light of recent events
in Colorado, to scream bloody murder and punch the nearest wall
into oblivion.

Read my analogies: The systematic oppression of homosexuals exists.
It takes the same form, and is in large part perpetuated by the
same people, as past and present systematic discrimination against
other non-majority groups.  It is therefore not only appropriate
but vital to talk about homosexuality in the same framework
as other minorities, so that bigotry against homosexuality can
be fought with the same effectiveness as bigotry against any
other group.


>>And you an MIT student at that.
>
>And what is that supposed to mean?

Well, according to MIT's publicity machine, it's *supposed* to mean that
you're of above-average intelligence, and are capable of very complex
and sophisticated reasoning.

Apparently not.

------------Nathan J. Mehl---------------(nmehl@pennsas.upenn.edu)------
It's the little touches that make a future solid enough to be destroyed.
--------------[Hatred is spelled CFV.  Boycott Colorado!]---------------
From: steve.connelly@synapse.org (Steve Connelly) 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: "Gay rights group files c
Date: 6 Nov 92 04:29:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: steve.connelly@synapse.org (Steve Connelly) 

CM>Short excerpts and comments based on a UPI story from clarinet:

CM>"A founder of a gay rights group has filed a complaint with Wichita
CM>Falls police, alleging three Christian bookstores are carrying obscene
CM>material on their shelves within the reach of children."
CM>"``The Christian Right has had a heyday censoring books they have
CM>determined to be pornographic,'' he said. ``This is just to show them
CM>they have material that is objectionable to some. Censorship affects
CM>everyone."

CM>The complaint was modivated by a previous official raid of two adult
CM>bookstores that resulted in the confiscation of some material.

Good for them!!
Maybe now the "Christian" Right will see that their attempts at
censorship can also work against them.
---
 . DeLuxe. 1.21 #777sa . Now abusing Qmail DeLuxe....and loving it!
From: nmehl@rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu (Nathan J. Mehl)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Election Day JITTERS
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:20:06 GMT
Reply-To: nmehl@rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu
Organization: Nihilists for a Better Tomorrow

In article <1992Nov4.035837.22100@oswego.Oswego.EDU> kinne@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Doc Kinne) writes:
>Folks:
>	Bill has just been declared President-elect of the United States
>by CNN.  Interestingly enough CNN also reported that 3% of the people
>voting and participating in the exit polls identified themselves as
>Gay/Lesbian.  Of those people 71% voted for Clinton (is this any
>surprise?) and 12% voted for Bush.

Twelve percent?!!!!!  Who the hell ARE these idiots?

Other than that, a great day to be a voter...

------------Nathan J. Mehl---------------(nmehl@pennsas.upenn.edu)------
It's the little touches that make a future solid enough to be destroyed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: markm@salem.intel.com (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Jesus was gay and John was his lover. (NOT!)
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:15:50 GMT

In <9NOV92.15554756@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu> smothers@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu writes:


>     As a dabbler in Christian apologetics, I can tell you that all such

and a dabbler you will always be, too.  And most likely you will also
be a apologist for a long time as well.

>statements fall out of the bounds of reasonableness. Jesus severely pointed
>out sin when he saw it. (Sorry to be politically incoreect but within the

Actually, you are correct here.  And Jesus did not once mention that
homosexuality was a sin.  And he was certainly in lots of places where
the equivalent to homosexuality at that time was being practiced (remember
that the term homosexual is a recent invention and the categorization
of same sex love as something other than love is an invention of some
time around the 9th century).

You seem to spend a lot of effort trying to remove the sliver of
homosexuality from my eye even though the log of bigotry and hate in
your clouds your vision.

By the way, since you seem to steeped in the history and interpretations
of the church, please explain why the majority of marriages performed
in the Christian church before the 8th century we same sex?  Inquiring
minds want to know.  You are a smart boy, research it.

>Jewish/Christian/Hindu/Islam framework that is how homosexual acts (not
>homosexual attraction) is defined. All such statements should be taken with

But homosexuality isn't defined by Christ.  In fact, it is only addressed
by mere mortals who "claim" to be spreading the word of their god.  Sort
of like Moroni and the Mormons, eh?  I'm sure that Smith left those damn
golden tablets around here someplace - they were just here a moment
ago - I promise!

>a grain of salt as they lack basis in historical/social fact.

>    I would like to apologize for all the homosexual bashing by someone
>on this net who feels its his mission in life to offend you guys/girls using

A misogynist as well.

>scripture as justification. Actually most of the christians I know are
>offended more at homosexuals wanted extra rights without actually qualifying

and do, pray tell, let us all in on exactly what these "extra rights" are
that you are harping on about?  Maybe it's time to bring back those 
wonderful little laws we use to have here in Oregon.  You know, things
like the anti-Catholic laws, etc. and apply them to the entire nation?

People like to wave old Leviticus around, well I like to wave around
Judges:

  Judge not lest you be judged.  For in the manner of your judgement
  so shall you be judged.

It means not to use the word of god as a sword against your neighbor
lest it be used as a sword against you at the judgement.  You, my friend,
have more than original sin to worry about.

yes, I know, I am doing a bit of judging here as well.  I'll worry about
that when the time comes.

--mark
From: esm@che.utexas.edu (Edward Scott Meadows)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Response to Navy homophobe
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:18:21 GMT
Reply-To: esm@che.utexas.edu (Edward Scott Meadows)
Distribution: usa
Organization: UT Department of Chemical Engineering
Originator: esm@june.che.utexas.edu

The following is a text of a letter I mailed recently.  If anyone
would like to see the text of the column that prompted it, I have made
it available via anonymous ftp at ftp.che.utexas.edu.  It is located
in pub/esm/lunney_orig.txt.

\documentstyle[fullpage]{letter}
\begin{document}
\date{\today}
\name{Edward S. Meadows}
\address{4159 Steck Avenue, \#133\\
Austin TX 78759-8515}
\signature{Edward S. Meadows}
\begin{letter}{CAPT J. Robert Lunney, JAGC, USNR\\
Naval Reserve Association\\
1619 King Street\\
Alexandria VA 22314}
\opening{Dear Captain Lunney:}
I am a Naval Reserve officer here in Austin and have recently joined
the Naval Reserve Association.

I was dismayed to read your Presidential Message in the September 1992
issue of the Naval Reserve Association News where you expressed
strong opposition to allowing the full participation of gay men and
lesbians in our society through military service.

Captain Lunney, gays and lesbians are already in the military.  They
serve with distinction.  They are members of the Naval Reserve
Association.  I cannot understand your continued opposition to
allowing qualified men and women who happen to be gay to serve their
nation.

Your column indicates that you have many misconceptions about gay men
and lesbians.  Your clearly did not achieve your current rank and
position by ignoring facts.  As a man of conscience, you owe it to
yourself to become educated about the realities of this situation.
Please don't continue to base your views about gay and lesbian people
on irrational prejudices inherited from a discredited mythology.

President-elect Clinton has made it clear that the military policy
directed against gays and lesbians will be changed.  I hope that you
will use your leadership position to ease the inevitable transition
pains.  I urge you to recognize that gay and lesbian Americans want
to serve their country and should be allowed to do so.

The change is coming.  You are faced with a leadership challenge,
Captain.  Accept your responsibility to represent {\em all} of your
members, including those who are gay and lesbian, and let's work
together to make the change as smooth as possible.
\closing{Sincerely,}
\end{letter}
\end{document}


Edward S. Meadows
Dept. of Chemical Engineering
Univ. of Texas
Austin TX 78712
-- 
Edward S. Meadows
Department of Chemical Engineering
University of Texas
Austin TX 78721-1062
From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: extremism
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:54:21 GMT
Distribution: world

In <farenebt.720996705@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> Bri Farenell ("Droopy" wrote:
> Do extremists hurt the credibility of the gay rights movement?

Hell, yes.  I don't care whether you fuck men, women, sheep, or chopped liver.  
As long as you leave me to live my life the way I want to, I'll do likewise
for you.

The gay rights extremists don't seem to want to stop there, though.  First,
they seem to want to secure legal privileges for gays that I don't have ---
like the "right" to be employed by people who dislike my sexual preference.
Second, they want to force me to subsidize gay behavior by paying the medical
expenses of AIDS victims through taxes extorted from me.

That isn't right.  You can live the way you want, but pay your own freight.

Thus, gay *people* are fine by me and I count many of them as friends.  But,
increasingly, I have to  consider gay *activism* a threat to my freedom.

(You watch.  Someone will call me a homophobe for saying that.)
-- 
					Eric S. Raymond <esr@snark.thyrsus.com>
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:10:08 -0500 
From: Erik Karl Witte <ew2r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: TEXT OF CO-2 & OR-9 HERE

Since there have been so many people arguing over the exact meaning of
Colorado #2, I'll post the exact wording here, along with the defunct
Oregon #9.  This way when people try to quote CO-2 they can use the real
words.



Colorado #2:
 
Be it Enacted by the People of the State of Colorado:
 
Article 2, of the Colorado Constitution is amended by the addition of Section
30, which shall state as follows:
 
NO PROTECTION STATUS BASED ON HOMOSEXUAL, LESBIAN, OR BISEXUAL ORIENTATION.
Neither the State of Colorado, through any of its branches or departments, nor
any of its agencies, political subdivisions, municipalities or school
districts, shall enact, adopt or enforce any statute, regulation, ordinance or
policy whereby homosexual, lesbian or bisexual orientation, conduct, practices
or relationships shall constitute or otherwise be the basis of, or entitle any
person or class of persons to have or claim any minority status, quota
preferences, protected status or claim of discrimination.  This Section of the
Constitution shall be in all respects self-executing.
 

---------------------------------------
Oregon #9:
 
        This state shall not recognize any categorical provision such as
``sexual preference,'' and similar phrases that includes homosexuality,
pedophilia, sadism or masochism.  Quotas, minority status, affirmative
action, or any similar concepts, shall not apply to these forms of
conduct, nor shall government promote these behaviors.
 
        State, regional, local governments and their properties and monies
shall not be used to promote, encourage or facilitate homosexuality,
pedophilia, sadism or masochism.
 
        State, regional and local governments and their departments,
agencies and other entities, including specifically the State Department
of Higher Education and the public schools, shall assist in setting a
standard for Oregon's youth that recognizes homosexuality, pedophilia,
sadism and masochism as abnormal, wrong, unnatural, and perverse and that
these behaviors are to be discouraged and avoided.
 
        It shall be considered that it is the intent of the people in
enacting this section that if any part thereof is held unconstitutional,
the remaining parts shall be held in force.



Erik Witte
<ew2r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: jhansen@convex.com (James Hansen)
Subject: Re: Measure 9 in PBS and CBS
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:40:13 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Nov3.154225.15744@midway.uchicago.edu> nelshou1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Roger Shouse) writes:

>I would not consider it
>child abuse for a parent to explore the situation and attempt in a 
>humane manner to encourage their child to become heterosexual.

It doesn't work that way.  What you'd wind up with is a miserable gay
child/young adult.  You can't "become" one thing or another WRT sexuality.
You might convince the child that having sex with a MOTSS is undesirable,
but the child is still gay, whether he abstains from sex or not.

--
James B. Hansen                                  {sun,uunet}!convex!jhansen
CONVEX Computer Corporation                              jhansen@convex.com
3000 Waterview Parkway, P. O. Box 833851
Richardson, TX 75083-3851                              Phone: (214)497-4802
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality