HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael James Gebis)
Subject: Re: Cherryh's technology (was: SF about doing science ?)
Keywords: Don't read _Twistor_
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:36:42 GMT

s5223927@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Daniel Lescohier) writes:

>In article <1992Apr14.041927.16381@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz> ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Thomas Koenig) writes:
>>
>>One other thing which peeves me are the speed and acceleration.
>>Accelerating at 10 g's will not get you up to light speed in a matter
>>of minutes.

>	True.  It would take about 35 days to get to light speed at 10g
>acceleration (3*10^8 m/s / 100 m/s^2 = 3*10^6 s = approx. 35 days.)
>That's extremely fast compared to today's standards, however.
> 

Actually, if you believe Einstein, it would take FOREVER to reach light speed.
(But I haven't read the book, so if she doesn't belive Al, don't flame)

> Daniel Lescohier        | InterNet: s5223927@titan.ucs.umass.edu (until May)

Mike Gebis   mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
From: stevea@jab.tucson.az.us (Steve Albany)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Alternate Universes
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 00:40:16 PDT
Organization: Just Another Bbs. Tucson, AZ

nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines) writes:

> In article <827aJB4w164w@jab.tucson.az.us> stevea@jab.tucson.az.us (Steve Alb
>                                  My big question, especially
>    concerning the [big bang] model is hey, ok, the Universe was created from
>    a relatively small ball of cosmic stuff, and BLAM-O, Insta-Universe.
>    What exists beyond the confines of this universe.
>    What kind of "space" is being filled up by our Universe.. Etc..
> 
> Well, the Universe that is created (/expanded/inflated) in the
> `BLAM-O' event does not just include the matter, but also all the
> space in between. Think of drawing dots on a balloon and then
> inflating it. The dots are the galaxies, the rubber is the space. What
> exists beyond the `confines' of the balloon? (i.e. what was in the
> `rubber' before the dots `got there'). What kind of rubber is being
> filled up by our balloon? This kind of question doesn't really have a
> sensible answer.
> 
> By the way, steady-state is old hat.
> 
> Oh, and something that really bugs me is this assumption by people
> that our universe has some finite total size. This is _not_ implicit
> in the big bang model. The big bang happens _everywhere_ when it
> happens---there _is_ no space `outside cosmic egg'. So why should it
> be finite? A lot of cosmologists don't believe that it's so. Even if
> our universe has enough curvature (i.e. density) to be closed, it
> _need_not_ be closed (it could be a more complicated manifold).
> 
> Nick Haines nickh@cs.cmu.edu
 
        I gotcha.. But I don't think I intended to imply a finite size of 
the Universe. I just thought with all this babble about PU's, I'd throw out 
something about Alternate Universes, rather than PU's (which I don't think 
are really likely).
        I guess in some respects, you answered my question, but by the same 
token, its still unanswered...


        ================================================================
        |                    Capt. Steve E. Albany                     |
        |                 Cmdr. USS PATTON (NCC-8570)                  |
        |--------------------------------------------------------------|
        |                           | "My son, ask for thyself another |
        | SteveA@Coyote.Datalog.Com | kingdom, for that which I leave  |
        |  SteveA@Jab.Tucson.Az.Us  | is too small for thee.."         |
        |                           |    - King Phillip of Macedonia   |
        ================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
From: csmith@onetouch.COM (Craig Smith)
Subject: Re: Alternate Universes
Organization: MCS/OneTouch, Inc.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 23:19:55 GMT

stevea@jab.tucson.az.us (Steve Albany) writes:

>        Now this one is a little more probable in my book. I mean seriously, 
>it seems pretty damn likely. Take the BIG BANG or STEADY STATE Models of the 
>Universe. My big question, especially concerning the BB Model, is hey, ok, 
>the Universe was created from a relatively small ball of cosmic stuff, and 
>BLAM-O, Insta-Universe. What exsists beyond the confines of this universe. 
>What kind of "space" is being filled up by our Universe.. Etc..
>        Anyway, I find this subject just as intriguing as the PU thread, 
>although, as I said, a bit more probable..

Let's do an analogy. Lets take a new balloon and, before we blow it up, we
glue pieces of confetti all over it, so that we cannot see the balloon.
This is analogous to the universe before the Big Bang--no matter where we
look on the balloon (if we ignore the stem) we see confetti. Now we blow
up the balloon. Soon we can see parts of the balloon showing between
the bits of confetti. Soon after that, we see more balloon than confetti.
This is like the universe as we now see it, more space than matter.

Now, if I interpret your question correctly, you are asking what is inside
the balloon and/or outside the balloon.  Am I right?

The answer is: No one knows, and speculations abound, most of which do
not effect this universe.  The main result of the analogy to the balloon
is that our 3-D universe exists in a 4-D space (at least) and we really
are not sure what is "blowing it up" (no, it is not the force of the BB,
since a force in 3-D cannot cause changes in other directions, unless a
direct relationship exists between space and matter/energy.  Any theories
on that?). Anyone have speculations on what is blowing up the universe?

-- 
Craig E. Smith                                       csmith@onetouch.COM
Columbus, OH                                       orson@bluemoon.rn.com
"Life is a fulltime occupation."--Gene Kalman  ...!uunet!onetouch!csmith
"It's just one .sig after another."--me  ///<<<{{{[[[(((*)))]]]}}}>>>\\\
From: wengland@stephsf.com (Bill England)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Those funky mushroom planets
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:08:25 GMT
    <1992Mar20.002903.8842@rigel.econ.uga.edu> <s01g5INNoan@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: Stephen Software Systems Inc., Tacoma/Seattle, +1 800 829 1684
X-Bytes: 652


  I don't know if this applies but, I just read a news paper  article
  on Sunday that described the discovery of the worlds largest fungus
  growing underground in a North Eastern US forest.  They estimate the
  age of the fungus to be about 1500 years which eaisly makes it the
  oldest living thing known to exist on the planet.



-- 
 +-  Bill England,  wengland@stephsf.COM -----------------------------------+
 |   * *      H -> He +24MeV                                                |
 |  * * * ... Oooo, we're having so much fun making itty bitty suns *       |
 |__ * * ___________________________________________________________________| 
From: crd@otter.hpl.hp.com (Chris Dalton)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:09:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Parallel Universes
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science

> Jeez, I think someone replaced your Cheerios with Grouchios this morning.

> This group is called sf.science for a reason.

Well, *this* group is rec.arts.tv.uk.  Obviously some would-be pan-dimensional
er, "intelligence" figures cross-posting to half a dozen groups is a good way
to simulate parallel universes.

Don't you just hate it when that happens?
From: kim3@husc10.harvard.edu (Jason Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Dyson Sphere
Date: 12 Apr 92 09:37:39 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

As far as problems go, the first thing that pops into my mind is:
what about comets? Won't they puncture your pretty sphere?

Maybe I don't know enough about this...please flame.

=============================================================================
Jason Y. Kim                        |             "It is very cold in space."
kim3@husc9.harvard.edu              |                                  --Khan
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Those funky mushroom planets
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:42:34 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: concertina

In article  M!stephsf.com!wengland writes:
>
>  I don't know if this applies but, I just read a news paper  article
>  on Sunday that described the discovery of the worlds largest fungus
>  growing underground in a North Eastern US forest.  They estimate the
>  age of the fungus to be about 1500 years which eaisly makes it the
>  oldest living thing known to exist on the planet.

This is going to come as a shock to a number of bristlecone pines and
sequoias currently residing in the Western U.S.







--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
From: abb3w@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Arthur Bernard Byrne)
Subject: Re: Psychohistory
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:20:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.204627.28549@spss.com> markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.171823.27610@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> abb3w@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU 
>(Arthur Bernard Byrne) writes:
>>    Hari Seldon: Well, my skills are not unique... there are a total
>>      of fifty mathematicians presently employed by my project, some
>>      of whom might have been able to develop the field similarly to
>>      the way I did, had I not done so first.  [...]
>>      In short, had I not been here, someone else would have filled my place.
>
>while in article <1992Apr13.230214.9785@m.cs.uiuc.edu> sane@cs.uiuc.edu
>(Aamod Sane) writes:
>>   Hari Seldon: My theory is that when you get enough people 
>>     *who do not know psychohistory* together
>>     history is determinate.  [...]
>
>I think one of you gentlemen is wrong.  
>
>If historical conditions were right for the development of psychohistory, 
>then the Galactic Empire is no longer filled with psychohistorically naive 
>rabble and history is no longer determinate.  
>
>If on the other hand it *is* possible to keep the Empire ignorant of 
>psychohistory, then it can't be maintained that dozens of 
>proto-psychohistorians were available to take Seldon's place.

	The two positions are not mutually exclusive. Gaal Dornick was
brought in to the Seldon Project (then to become the 51st mathematician)
from off planet. Most, if not all, of the people capable of doing the
work were probably gathered up by the formation of the Seldon Project,
helping doctor Seldon and preventing anyone from accidentally interfering
with his work. By the time he finished getting his project going, there
may not have been anyone OUTSIDE the project capable of doing the work.
In effect, he was the first crystalization site, and a single crystal
precipitated.
	I suggest reading Michael Flynn's "In the Country of the Blind"
for more on the foundation (no pun) of Psychohistorical organizations.

AB^2
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
From: neufeld@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Christopher Neufeld)
Subject: Re: How far is a second ?
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:09:04 GMT

In article <1992Apr06.200808.7989@onetouch.COM> csmith@onetouch.COM (Craig Smith) writes:
>I still think that the same unit can be used for both space and time.
>This was one of my main arguments for being able to set c=1 in the
>first place.
>
   Sure, you can do that. I never said you couldn't. Reread my posting.
There is somewhat of an asymmetry between time and space, though, which
makes it more a mathematical construct and less an insightful view of the
nature of the universe. You might decide instead to set c=-i where 'i' is
the square root of -1.
   In setting c=1 you are removing one of those four degrees of freedom I
mentioned in my article. You have room for three more arbitrary
assignments, as long as, for each element in the set {coulomb, kilogram,
(metre || second)} there is at least one assignment which contains that
unit in SI, and as long as they are all consistent. Hmmm, I suspect that
sentence will only make sense if you already understand what I'm saying.
Think of it as transforming to a new set of basis vectors. You started
with a four-dimensional basis, you need another consistent set of four
vectors which span the same space. You've picked c=1. This is not true in
the SI units system, so you've started the switch to another basis set.
   This scheme is useful for physicists and cosmologists, who have to
keep carrying 'c*t' around unless they set c=1, but isn't used much in
everyday life. After all, you're more likely to say, "I'll meet you in
fifteen minutes" than to say, "I'll meet you in two hundred and seventy
billion metres," or to say, "Give me a foot long with the works" than to
say, "Give me a billionth of a second with the works."

>::Craig Smith                                             csmith@onetouch.COM::


-- 
 Christopher Neufeld....Just a graduate student  | "Some men are alive
 neufeld@helios.physics.utoronto.ca    Ad astra  | simply because it is
 cneufeld@terranet.cts.com                       | against the law to
 "Don't edit reality for the sake of simplicity" | kill them."
From: max@west.darkside.com (Max Pandaemonium)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Strength of skrith (sp?)
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:20:10 GMT
Organization: The Dark Side of the Moon +1 408 245 SPAM

robs@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Rob Schaeffer) writes:

> Lets try a new approach:
> 
> How much pressure is on the scrith level?

The pressure on the scrith foundation is different from the tensile 
stress induced by Ringworld's spin.  If you take a ring of material and 
spin it fast, it wants to fly apart.  If it is very large and spins very 
fast (as in Ringworld), then it wants to fly apart _very much._  That's 
the question that was being addressed here.

The pressure on the scrith foundation caused by the atmosphere and 
lithosphere is negligible compared to the tensile stress.  I calculated 
the tensile stress sigma = 2.02 x 10^15 Pa.  That's a hell of a lot of 
tensile stress.

----------
Max Pandaemonium   Omnia quia sunt, lumina sunt.  Coming soon:  UNIVERSE _ | _
USmail:  1070 Oakmont Dr. #1 San Jose CA 95117  ICBM:  37 20 N  121 53 W _>|<_
UUCP:  ..!apple!uuwest!max   Usenet:  max@west.darkside.com   464E4F5244   |
From: pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk (P.J. Hogben)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Ringworld Ending [was Re: Strength of skrith (sp?)]
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:54:08 GMT
Organization: cam.eng


All this talk about Ringworld brought into mind something that occured
to me last time I read the book (a few weeks ago). At the very end,
(er, should this have a spoiler warning? ^L doesn't work on this
editor - all it does is recentre the screen. I'll leave a few lines to
try to help anybody who doesn't want to know)

























Louis Wu and Speaker-To-Animals are in pressure suits in the portion
of the building with the flycycle "glued" in. There is a long strand
of monofilament glued to the building and passing through their ship
(What was it called now?) held in place by the airlocks. The woman
they picked up (forgot her name too) is in the ship along with Nessus
the Puppeteer who is in the autodoc. Now what I want to know is how
did Wu and Speaker get BACK to their ship? Or could the woman have
been told how to operate the hyperdrive? And if so, would the building
have been dragged along aswell and could Wu have coped with the Blind
Spot? (I seem to remember that the Kzin weren't bothered by it.) 

When I read the book, I got the impression that Niven didn't know how
to get Wu and Speaker back to the ship so he just glossed over it

Any suggestions out there?

Philippa Hogben

pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk   (Reverse address if posting from Janet)
From: pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Psychohistory
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:40:41 GMT
Reply-To: pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Organization: Florida State University, but I don't speak for them

In article <1992Apr11.012944.29139@midway.uchicago.edu> mss2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Probably it would be more accurate to call it "Seldon's argument"
>rather than "Asimov's".  This isn't splitting hairs-- I don't
>have any reason to believe that Asimov believed in historical
>determinism himself-- especially considering how much he hedged
>around the idea in the Foundation series.

Asimov did not believe in historical determinism.  I saw him speak once,
and he said clearly that he didn't believe in psychohistory to the slightest
degree, and that he was writing fiction using an interesting fictional 
device.

I agree that it isn't splitting hairs.  It's very important to realize that
an author who has a character say something or behave a certain way does not
neccessarily agree with the character.  Even more than that, any nontrivial
author, most of the time, does not agree with what the characters are saying.
This is because producing nontrivial literature requires that characters
engage in conflict, and therefore must be different.  As the author can,
at most, agree with only one character in the conflict, the remainder must
be in disagreement with the author.

-EMP
From: kempga@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Greg Kemp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Virtual reality, the brain, and high-speed modems.
Date: 9 Apr 92 01:18:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr9.011807.20047
Reply-To: kempga@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr8.200506.20541@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>  
mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael James Gebis) writes:

[ stuff from me and flames deleted ]

> Wouldn't a more accurate number for the visual data enetering the brain
> come from...
> 	A) The number of cones and rods on the retina

My figure for pixels is the number of rods in the human retina to the  
order of magnitude I remember it (perhaps I should hit the reference  
books?)

> 	C) Remember, color is only really accurate in a small portion of
> 	   the visual 'window'...away from the center, vision is probably
>          only 8 bit or even lower.

It's almost completely black-and-white.  The human eye is still good at  
distinguishing gray scales in these regions so at least eight bits would  
be needed.

Regardless of the actual figure, it would be a truly impressive amount of  
information by today's standards.  Earlier today, I read a book outside.   
How much information would be required to simulate the breeze on my face,  
the cold ground beneath, the rough tree bark to my back, the scent of the  
flowers just coming into bloom, the song of the birds, and the look and  
feel of the book in my hands? 

> Mike Gebis  mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc  OR  m-gebis@uiuc.edu
> "AIM MY SMILING SKULL AT YOU"

--
Greg Kemp
inmate, Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Terre Haute, IN
Internet: kempga@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
From: mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael James Gebis)
Subject: Re: Dyson Sphere & Ringworlds
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:55:29 GMT

smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) writes:

>Question: Niven says that a Ringworld needs to spin at 770 miles/sec to
>maintain 1g at 1au.  How strong a material is needed to support this?
>Can diamond fiber do the job, or is it beyond any theoretical material?

Doing some quick (and messy....) calculations, using the mass of the ring to
be that of jupiter, and also assuming its 1000km wide and 1km thick, I came up
with 9.327x10^9 N/mm^2 (Yup, that's square MILLImeters)....equivalent to
a millimeter thick thread holding up 2.1x10^10 lbs.
(I may have done something wrong, BTW...no flames, just correct me, please)
Anyway, _I_ would use buckytubes, not diamond fibers, for a situation like this,
though I have a feeling that buckytubes wouldn't be able to support this either.

(Someone want to double check me on this.....did I get the right magnitude?)

>Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron.
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a "disgrace",
>that two are called a "law firm", and that three or more become a "Congress".

Mike Gebis   mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu  OR   m-gebis@uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
From: napalm@next07wor.wam.umd.edu (Warren L. Mohn)
Subject: Re: What if the Sun dimmed?
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:30:28 GMT

Yes, what if the sun dimmed?  Where would I get a tan?  Would my crocuses  
I planted in the fall still come up in spring or would they pop up in  
August?  Would there still be good beaches to go to?  What kind of  
sunblock should I use, if any, could I use SPF 2 or should I go with SPF 4  
just in case the sun has dimmed ENOUGH.  This is a serious problem in  
America and this seems like the group that could answer my questions.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
From: tbmg9061@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Thomas B MacIukenas)
Subject: Re: Psychohistory
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:01:41 GMT

hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (wayne) writes:

>    1.  The solutions to *problems*  were accomplished by individuals who
>	understood the structure of society as predicted by psychohistory.
>	The structure of society as predicted by psychohistory was 
>	motivated by the masses of humanity, except in the case of the
>	Mule.  And later, by the Foundations, which understood how to
>	manipulate it.   

That's wrong.  The most important thing about Psychohistory was that
noone else understood it (not the Mule, nor the Foundation, noone).
If even a single person ouside of Seldon's little group understood
Psychohistory they would have been able to manipulate society and
Seldon would not have been able to guarantee his solution would work.

>    2.  Asimov presented psychohistory largely as a serious proposition,
>	(at least in terms of the stories).  We were seduced into 
>	believing that it was real and that the events which occurred
>	as predicted were not merely coincidental.  I've always
>	wondered if it wasn't a joke on his readers.

What makes you think it might have been a joke?
-- 
___-Tom_Maciukenas_(tbmg9061@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)_________________________________
main(){char c[159],s[159]="main(){char c[159],s[159]=@@@;strcpy(c,s);s[26]=34;s
[27]=0;s[28]=34;printf(s);printf(c);puts(&s[28]);}";strcpy(c,s);s[26]=34;s[27]=
0;s[28]=34;printf(s);printf(c);puts(&s[28]);}