From: simonl@daimi.aau.dk (Simon Laub)
Subject: Maastricht ...encore
Summary: democracy and the way it is implemented , building a EU.
Keywords: a german sunshine story, dealing with the issues
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 23:52:56 GMT

livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
>It's not the role of either Kohl or Mitterand to organize Europe 
>for the benefit of Denmark.   Denmark could have supported the UK 
>at the Maastricht negotiations more strongly than they did.  Instead, 
>the Danes chose to leave the UK in a minority of one.   Now, after
>going along with the other ten at Maastricht, and leaving the UK
>to be accused of obstructionism, they are complaining that the other 
>states are not bending over backwards to make new changes, after the
>fact, to suit Denmark?
  
   Just to make it perfectly clear : 
The danish govt. is pro Maastricht. Has supported
Maastricht all the way , and is still a supporter of
the Maastricht treaty. Its 50.7 % of the danish
people , who doesnt like the treaty much.

   John Major is also a great Maastricht fan
(despite his very recent passionate nationalism).
So in Birmingham you will have 12 pro Maastricht
govt.'s and no representatives from the 'no side '.

   Major has been one of 'the 11 other countries,
that will be very mad at the danes if they vote no '
all along . Likewise were the danes used to 
pressure the british to 'be good europeans'.

   That tactic is still used and is still 
VERY undemocratic.

bialek@i43s3.ira.uka.de (Boris Bialek Betr. Tichy) writes:
>My opinion about europe: The last centuries were full of wars over europe.
>the western european enemies, england - france - germany, build up a relationship
>which brought us a long decade of peace and wealthyness. I go to france every week
>without any visa or custom checks. Here in Karlsruhe eight km from
>the former french border europe is reality in both directions. A lot of french
>people work in germany and the way round. Why are so many people too
>blind or nationalistic that they want to break up the process of 
>becoming a europe nation ?

  Nice with a little sunshine_story  here in the autumn.
But you completely missed the point. No one are against you going
to france every week. 
  We are talking about how to make Europe work in an optimal
(in not perfect) way . Becoming 'a europe nation' , as you
put it, might not include state building ,as it was perceived
year 1900 , maybe the whole notion of state has changed making
such an objective wrong.

>I suppose, fear is the answer. Fear consisting of predjudices about the 
>ugly german, the centralistic france and ....  If we start
>to weight the advantages and disadvantages of europe the result is
>clear - europe wins. 

   Fear is an integral part of being a human and
human behavior. If you are totally without fear ,
then you are extremely stupid.

>PS.: If someboby reply anythink, please, no simple polemic like 
>     the ZDF-Copenhagen-discussion.

   I certainly will not use Brussels jargo . I will
rather use a simplistic language. If that makes
me a 'simple schwartzwald farmer' ... then so be it.

Simon Laub.