From: ted9e@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Thomas Edward Doyle)
Subject: Re: Reasoning with homophobes??
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 22:54:42 GMT

cherokee@cscns.com  writes:
> It seems like everyone here has gone off on an anal sex tangent, and
> forgotten the original purpose of this particular discussion.  No problem
> with that, it's just that I'd like to backtrack a little bit.
> 
> You'd might as well talk about reasoning with axe-murderers, or the United
> States Cavalry of the previous century.
Yes, some people do seem to make a living out of hating, don't they?
  Homophobes are people who:
> 
> 1) Do not know anything about homosexuals and the emotions they feel
> 2) Are too insensitive to empathize with anyone, let alone a "faggot"
>    (pardon my use of that distasteful word; just to make a point)
	Some gays actually, like it, though:-) Queer, gay, faggot,
homo -- what one likes to and does not like to call himself or be
called is (not so) amazingly variable.
> 3) Perhaps as a consequence of 2) above, have no interest in learning
>    about the people they roundly revile.
Probably no interest in learning.  Period.
> Of course, many homophobes are the way they are just out of sheer
> ignorance and can overcome their unwarranted bias through contact with
> homosexuals and by talking to them and understanding that love is the same
> whether it goes out to one of the same sex or the other one.  (I myself am
> an example of a once-nominal homophobe who quickly realized I was being an
> asshole and limiting my own potential for growth by avoiding contact with
> a diverse and fascinating group of people, and not putting myself in
> "their shoes", so to speak, before I condemned them).
A lot of gay folks suffer from "internalized homophobia", hating
themselves and others for years, before (if they're lucky) they can
come to terms with their true identities.  Not so different from
yourself, and you were lucky.  Welcome.
> There are some homophobes wiht whom one can reason.
WARNING: Your ambivalent definition of homophobe is destined to draw
flames, at least from the linguists on soc.motss.
  These people are not
> really homophobic per se, just ignorant and thus fearful or apprehensive. 
> It is the die-hard, gung-ho "fag-haters" (once again, I ask pardon), who
> are also most likely racist and extremely closed-minded, with whom one
> cannot reason.  You do not reason with a psycho killer; you also do not
> reason with a doorknob.  Sadly, many of these hard-core homophobes have
> IQ's that are in the same general range as a doorknob.
Well, we excuse doorknobs:-) But we strive to put psycho killers
behind bars.  What should we do with the homophobes... and regular old
racists, for that matter?  There's been numerous debates on whether the
oppressed should just lie down and take it of stand up and fight.  I
haven't heard anyone, though, advocate just putting these hating
bastards behind bars and keeping them there for the rest of their
biological lives.  clearly they're not fit to live in free society
with the rest of us.  Anyone agree? 
> 
> Well, people, go in peace.
I look forward to that day!

  If anyone is offended by what I write here,
> feel free to mail me your flames at cherokee@cscns.com
Don't be so gracious!  Let the flames be posted here, in public, where
they will speak for themselves and let us all see where the cowards
live.

Crow

> 
> Kangi Taku Wakan
> a.k.a. Jim Forsyth
>