HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tt@wag.caltech.edu
Subject: Statistics for Sunday 
Organization: soc.religion.eastern
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:03:57 GMT

This is the soc.religion.eastern statistics posting for
Sunday 8/23 through Saturday 8/29.

I count 25 accepted submissions this week.

No submissions were rejected this week.

                              -- Toshi

..............................................................................

Mon 8/24

mon1   From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
   Subject: Re: More BS about Death
mon2   From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
   Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
mon3   From: burman@sol.cs.wmich.edu (SURENDRA BURMAN)
   Subject: Tai Chi: Dynamic Meditation
mon4   From: kish@titania.rutgers.edu (Kish)
   Subject: Re: More BS about Death
mon5   From: fred@wrs.com (Fred Kline)
   Subject: Share truth
mon6   From: kish@titania.rutgers.edu (Kish)
   Subject: Re: needed: translation of Tara mantra.

Tues 8/25

tue1   From: wong@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Wong Weng Fai)
   Subject: ONE-TRUE-BRAND
tue2   From: Roger Adams <RADAMS@cerritos.edu>
   Subject: Re: More (expletive deleted) About Death
tue3   From: toshi@cco.caltech.edu
   Subject: Posting problems!!!, Statistics for Sunday 
tue4   From: mcfarlan@corona.math.washington.edu (Thomas J. McFarlane)
   Subject: Knowing.  (was: about Death)
tue5   From: fred@wrs.com (Fred Kline)
   Subject: Ram Dass
tue6   From: tucker@mitre.org (William Tucker)
   Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
tue7   From: fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov (Tawit Chitsomboon)
   Subject: Re: Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra
tue8   From: oak@mwilliams.eche.ualberta.ca ()
   Subject: The spiritual master

Wed 8/26

wed1   From: wong@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Wong Weng Fai)
   Subject: On death
wed2   From: wong@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Wong Weng Fai)
   Subject: 28 Oct 1992 - THE END
wed3   From: news@aix01.rz.fht-mannheim.de (USENET News System)
   Subject: Re: More BS about Death
wed4   From: bguest9@bsg9.Corp.Sun.COM (Kristian Skrinak)
   Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
wed5   From: jdavis@netlink.cts.com (James Davis)
   Subject: Death

Thurs 8/27

thurs1   From: degrace@upei.ca (John DeGrace)
   Subject: George Grimm
thurs2   From: sparta!asanders@uunet.uu.net (Alan Sanders)
   Subject: Re: More BS about Death

Sat 8/29

sat1   From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
   Subject: Spirituality [What? How?]
sat2   From: cup.portal.com!Tagi%portal@uunet.uu.net
   Subject: Re: More Bullshit About Death
sat3   From: jdavis@netlink.cts.com (James Davis)
   Subject: Bright Light of Death
sat4   From: Jack Carroll <SECBH@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
   Subject:      Apology to Mr. Kish

-----

Toshi
tt@wag.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Subject: Re: Why meditate?
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 07:38:08 GMT

Lorenzo Farris <farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu> wrote:
: In my post, I said that the measure of progress, at least for me, is whether
: I am happi_er_ .  Not happy. Happier.  There must be upwards progress.  If
: I am at the same level of happiness that I was at yesterday, then
: yeah, I'm happy, but I'm not progressing in my practise. 

*Love it the way it is.* The way you see the world depends entirely on your own
vibration level. When your vibration changes, the whole world will look
different. It's like those days when everyone seems to be smiling at you
because you feel happy. The way to raise your vibration level is to feel more
love. Start by loving your negative feelings, your own boredom, dullness and
despair. It's hard to believe, but changing the *content* of your mind does
nothing to change your vibration level.
     For the purpose of raising your awareness, it is useless to change your
ideas, your faith, your behavior, your place of residence, or your companions.
It is not arbitrary or an accident that you are where you are, so you might as
well get your attitude straight before you make a change. Otherwise you might
find yourself chasing all over creation looking for the right place, and not
even the Sea of Infinite Bliss will feel right to you. You take yourself with
you wherever you go. As they say in Zen: If you can't find it where you are
standing, where do you expect to wander in search of it?
                    - Thaddeus Golas in "The Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment"

: And what is the ultimate ecstasy, other than union with Eternity.

    People climb mountains,
 since where the mountain ends,
        heaven starts.

      But the point is,
  everywhere on the mountain
      begins the heaven.
   All what you have to do
        is to jump.

  -- Michael Barnett in "Hints on the Art of Jumping"
 (a beautyful book; "The Greatest Teaching There Is" is also  excellent)

: "No self, no problem!"			Lorenzo Farris
: 					farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu
He smiled and said "all is empty, it's all an illusion".
When hit onto the nose, he became angry.
Where does the anger come from?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Marc Wachowitz, mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de   /  life is live  /  life is life
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Subject: Re: Why meditate?
Organization: ----
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 05:39:16 GMT


I (Lorenzo) made comments to the effect that increasing level of
happiness is a good measure of spiritual progress.

In article <1992Sep9.183532.7824@cco.caltech.edu>, fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov (Tawit Chitsomboon) writes:
> 
> OK, I agree. The problem then boils down to: How do you define
> happiness?
> 
> >And what is
> >the ultimate ecstasy, other than union with Eternity.  Anyway, this is
> >all IMHO.
> 
> That is the most joy, the ultimate, of all theistic religions.
> For buddhists, the ultimate happiness is to transcend both
> happinesses and sufferings, i.e., non-attach in all senses of
> the word. There could be no bigger difference in Buddhism and
> Hinduism (for that matter all theistic religions) other than this
> point regarding happiness. Again, I'm not saying that which one
> is right. Here, I'm just trying to point out the differences.
> 
> -Tawit

I could be mistaken, but I think this only takes into account 
particular branches of Buddhism.  Other developments of Buddhism
take into account a union with the Buddha-mind, as one term for
it goes.  The point behind becoming unattached, behind emptying
the mind, is that the ego and all its attachments are much too
heavy for the awareness to carry into eternity.  Or another way
of looking at it is that you have to empty the bowl of consciousness
out before you can have it filled with the clear light.

Yearning to be empty-headed,
	Lorenzo
-- 

"No self, no problem!"			Lorenzo Farris
					farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu
From: fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov (Tawit Chitsomboon)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: On death
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:40:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep7.103418.18380
Organization: Institute for Computational Mechanics in Propulsion

In article <1992Sep3.083413.21810@qiclab.scn.rain.com> 
radams@cerritos.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.011145.10726@qiclab.scn.rain.com>, 
>fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov (Tawit Chitsomboon) writes:
>
>> - Be dead before you die, and you'll never die.
>> - You weren't born in the first place, How could you die?
>
>Exactly. How can something that was never born ever die?

Using the concept of Human-language/Dhamma-language of Buddhadasa,
and a little knowledge on his attitude toward things,
my interpretation to the 2nd quote of his is that:

According to human-language, we were physically born some time back.
According to dhamma-language, we were not born since we have
nothing (Anatta) to begin with.  It's not that we have existed since
minus infinity (Thus, were never born as you probably meant to convey).
I'm not saying you're wrong but that your interpretation is
different from his original intention.

-Tawit  [fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov]

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Half a cup of water is half-full, with air.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: ntmtv!scoter@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Patrick Thompson)
Subject: Shri Mataji, N. America tour
Organization: ----
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:53:37 GMT



  S H R I   M A T A J I   T O U R S   N O R T H   A M E R I C A  
  - - - -   - - - - - -   - - - - -   - - - - -   - - - - - - -


Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, founder of Sahaja Yoga, will be touring
the U.S. and Canada during September. She will be offering free 
lectures on self-realization and the "Sahaja Yoga experience." Her 
itinerary includes visits to New York, Cincinnati, Toronto, Vancouver, 
Seattle, and Los Angeles.

Sri Mataji believes that world peace and collective consciousness can
be achieved only through the inner transformation of human beings. Her
system of meditation, Sahaja Yoga, manifests a subtle energy. This is 
experienced as vibrations which are felt on the central nervous system
and lead to greater awareness and deeper intuition. Rather than requiring 
a "leap of faith," it is an actual experience of the integration of our 
physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual being. It thus brings about 
complete balance and inner peace. By bringing together people of all 
religious, ethnic, and social backgrounds, she has proven that the human 
bond is more than skin deep and that all ideologies are encompassed by 
the same universal values and truths.


PUBLIC PROGRAMS
---------------

New York
Tuesday, September 8th, 7 pm.
Terrace on the Park
5211 Flushing Meadow Park
Queens
Info: (914) 636-4406

New York
Wednesday, September 9th
United Nations
U.N. Personnel only

Cincinnati
Thursday, September 10th, 7:30 pm.
Eden Park
Seasongood Pavilion
Info: (513) 563-0584

Toronto
Friday, September 11th, 7 pm.
Rosedale Heights Secondary School
711 Bloor St. East
Info: (416) 614-9521 or (416) 614-7338

Vancouver
Sunday, September 13th, 7 pm.
Robson Square Media Center
Info: (604) 850-7475 or (604) 261-0203

Seattle
Monday, September 14th, 7:30 pm.
Seattle Center, North Hall
Info: (206) 771-9063

Los Angeles
Wednesday, September 16th, 7 pm.
Ebell of Los Angeles Theatre
743 South Lucerne Blvd. at Wilshire
Info: (818) 344-9642


              A l l   P r o g r a m s   F r e e
	      _ _ _   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _   _ _ _ _




For more information about these upcoming programs or Sahaja Yoga 
in general, call the local information numbers given above or 
1-800-745-YOGA.




------------------------------
Patrick Thompson
ntmtv!scoter@ames.arc.nasa.gov
From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Is the Abhidharma worth studying?
Date: 13 Sep 92 05:02:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep15.094245.10580
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs

In article <1992Sep13.032147.14106@cco.caltech.edu> jrk@information-systems.east-anglia.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway) writes:
>advice here has been very helpful.  I'll probably get Nanamoli's "Path of
>Purification", and leave Pruden's translation of Poussin's translation of

good choice. i've been working with this book for about a month now.
it is the most powerful book i've ever touched with my fingers.
i am not disparaging other teachings, but this book contains the
best teachings on formless meditation ive ever seen.
i now understand that this technique is indeed the means
to become a "skygoer" and taste the bliss of eternity.

this is a teaching that is to be respected, not disparaged,
as it seems many Tibetan Mahayanists do. true, the road to
Buddhahood is long and probably involves many such tastes
of the infinite.

special understanding, and not just "summit of existence" samadhi,
remains undoubtedly the secret to unlock the doors to this
realm permanently. but i havent read the _Understanding_
section of the Visuddhimagga yet. this book is stunning.

-- 
-- Pat Monardo
-- pjm@cshl.org
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: news@aix01.rz.fht-mannheim.de (USENET News System)
Subject: Re: Why meditate?
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:27:57 GMT

Pat Monardo <pjm@cshl.org> replied to Lorenzo Farris
<farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu>:
[about meditation for joy]
: is it really the most joy? or is it the beginning of joy?
Isn't "most joy" like looking after the trace of a dead bird in the wind?
Meditation is not restricted to any particular form of living.

: i tire of the endless rantings that craving is evil,
: mind/matter is suffering. i see the importance of this
: teaching to reach the inner citadel of peace, but to
: then not reach out and attempt to realize nirvana==samsara
: is a seriously flawed mindset.
Why is it more flawed than the idea that craving were evil?
Isn't that an attempt to condemn another form of craving,
and in this way another form of craving?

: being Mahayanist, i believe that the ultimate goal is to emerge from these
: trances and engage in the bodhisattva deeds.

A Zen poem:

If at the end of the journey
there is no final retirement,
how can there be a path
where we miss the goal?


: >Yours in verbose reflection,
: >	Lorenzo
: 
: Yours in reflected reflection,
: -- Pat Monardo

So many mirrors!? :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Wachowitz, mw@gandalf.ki.fht-mannheim.de, 75742@novell1.rz.fht-mannheim.de
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *

Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Subject: Re: Why meditate?
Organization: ----
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:08:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.194545.10936@cco.caltech.edu>, sanders@iitmax.iit.edu (Greg Sanders) writes:
> 
> Consider progress following from meditation as a winding river.  Progress
> is easy to see (and absolutely inevitable) over a year but invisible over 
> a few days.  .....

	My apologies, I meant yesterday figuratively. 

  But don't judge the results of practice.
> It may take great faith to not judge, but if you JUST do the practice
> (without judging) it will be more effective and progress will be greater. 
> Doing your meditation practice with mind divided between doing it and
> judging it is a vicious tar pit.  (Ditto for living life, actually).

I agree with not judging the actual practice.  And if I have some
trusted person around, I can get another opinion of what is going on.
but imho meditation is a process of expanding awareness, and makes you
more conscious, more intelligent in your decisions, tougher, more
realistically minded, clearer, happier, etc.  If I don't meditate for
a day, I find I do things more sloppily, I am more easily set back by
life's little problems, I have less energy.  Similarly, if instead of
mindfully letting go of my thoughts, I just space out, and visit
temples on Venus with astral deadbeats, for example, I will find
myself afterwards kind of disassociated and spaced-out during the day.
If the light of eternity shows some rotting piece of carrion in a
corner of my consciousness, of course there is some pain associated
with it, but I also get a sense of joy and excitement at finding an
undiscovered corner of my soul.  Maybe it's just me, but I find
ignorance the most frustrating thing of all, and releasing a little
ignorance way outweighs the little separation pain that goes with it.

but to get back to the original point, I think if a person is serious
about changing their life, letting go of useless
emotional/intellectual baggage, they should give meditation and
mindfulness at least a year of practice before deciding whether it is
an appropriate path.  The changes in that time should just about be
adequate that in reflecting on who they were, what they did, and how
they felt a year before, meditations efficacy should be abundantly
obvious, and if it has been effective practice, there won't be any
decision to be made.
	Yours in inconstancy,
			Lorenzo
-- 

"No self, no problem!"			Lorenzo Farris
					farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: jrk@information-systems.east-anglia.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway)
Subject: Is the Abhidharma worth studying?
Organization: ----
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:24:24 GMT

Before getting to the question I pose in the Subject line, supposing I did
want to study the Abhidharma/Abhidhamma, can anyone recommend some
accessible references?  Preferably not anything I would have to order from
Tibet unseen and wait six months for.  I only read English, alas, although
I might grapple with texts in Dutch, German, or French given enough
motivation.

My interest arises from an interest in the Perfection of Wisdom doctrine. 
I have some of Conze's translations of various PoW sutras.  Conze makes two
important points about them: firstly, they should be seen not as
philosophical treatises, but as guides to meditation; secondly, they
presuppose a thorough knowledge of the Abhidharma.

However, from what I have read about the Abhidharma in various books on
Buddhism, it seems to be a classification of everything into categories as
arbitrary and incomprehensible to me as the nineteen categories of
Aristotle, the six (or was it seven?) categories of English adverbs, or the
classification of animals in an old Chinese encyclopaedia described by
Borges: those that belong to the Emperor, those that are trained, mermaids,
those that tremble as if they were mad, innumerable ones, others, those
that have just broken a flower vase, those that resemble ants when seem
from a distance...

As for its relation to the Prajnaparamita, it is as if the only purpose of
studying the Abhidharma was to then unlearn it by studying the latter
doctrine.

What is the point of the system?  Is it, like the Prajnaparamita, to be
taken as a guide to meditation rather than a philosophical system?  But
then what sort of meditation would it be useful for?  If the Prajnaparamita
is concerned with the experience of emptiness, what experience, if any, is
the Abhidharma concerned with?

--
Richard Kennaway     SYS, University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.
Internet:  jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk               uucp:  ...mcsun!ukc!uea-sys!jrk


Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: fred@wrs.com (Fred Kline)
Subject: Re: Sickness and Meditation/Retreats
Organization: ----
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:58:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.200509.6531@cco.caltech.edu> tt@wag.caltech.edu (Toshi Takeuchi) writes:
>I was talking (over the net) to a friend of mine, and she said that
>she, too, gets some wierd symptoms/sicknesses right before a long
>retreat with her teacher.
>
>I'm assuming that we aren't the only ones who get sick before weekend
>retreats etc...
>
>	Why is it that these illnesses occur before and during
>	these retreats?
>
>To tell you a little about what happens to me, I get hemorrhoids and 
>occasionally other stomach/root illnesses about a week before I'm 
>going to leave.
>
>	Any of you guys have some theories about this occurence?
>	Anyone else have such experiences?
>
>Toshi
>tt@wag.caltech.edu



From a psychological perspective, the body is probably reflecting
back fears and anxieties that center around a retreat. What comes
to mind are, anxiety about being in a strange envioronment, being
around strange people, will the teacher meet your expectations, etc..

Fred Kline  fred@wrs.com


Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: MORIARTY@vm1.nodak.edu
Subject: Re: Is the Abhidharma worth studying?
Organization: ----
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 03:22:52 GMT

;Shambhala Press offers two abhidharma-related books.  There's a

117 page manual by Chogyam Trungpa called _Glimpses of Abhidharma_

that gives a good orientation.  There's also another book called

_The Art of Happiness:A Buddhist Psychology_ that's pretty good.

       Shambhala's address is P.O. Box 308, Back Bay Annex, Boston,

MA 02117.  They'll send you a catalogue upon request.

     Those two books exhausted my curiosity about adhdharma.  It's

very theoretical.  I guess it's good for people who like the

intricacy of doctrine, but I prefer practical Buddhism.  There are

many paths.

     in gassho, Mike/Email:Moriarty@vm1.nodak.edu

Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: jdavis@netlink.cts.com (James Davis)
Subject: Jim-->Bill: Words & Meaning
Organization: ----
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:26:15 GMT


Jim's quote:

"The perfection of outward loveliness is the soul shining
through  its crystalline covering."  (Jane Porter)

Bill:
>Sorry, but for me, quotes like this tend to cause tooth decay. 
>I have found zazen a very effective way to floss.

I could agree, but then sometimes I just like to go for the meaning
irrespective of the terms and cultural matrix.  

Psychological sweetness and its verbal counterpart is not instrumental in
decay.  It is the psychologically reactive acid that breaks down our
defenses.  And the sharp edge of a well zended intellect slashes playfully
into the conduit of human communication.  And we know a rose by
any other name would smell as sweet, but truth by any other name 
is more sour to specifically conditioned palates.

Yours in verbal adaptation, 

Jim


--                    
INTERNET:  jdavis@netlink.cts.com (James Davis)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jdavis
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: KLEINSCHMIDT@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Abhidharma 101
Date: 10 Sep 92 04:43:54 GMT
Organization: ----

More comments on Richard Kennaway's search for books on abhidharma:
 
It just occurred to me that there is in fact a short, interesting and 
fairly readable book on the subject matter of the abhidharma.  This is "The 
Central Conception of Buddhism and the Meaning of the Word Dharma" by 
Theodor Stcherbatsky, originally published in 1922, and reprinted since by 
Motilal Banarsidass Publ., Dehli, the last time in 1988.  This book is 
available from Wisdom Publ. for around $10.
 
Stcherbatsky was one of the giants among 20th century Buddhologists and 
anyone who wants to consider him/herself literate in Buddhism should have 
dipped into his works at least once.  In this book, he explains many of the 
technical terms of abhidharma philosophy, with a special emphasis on 
clarifying the most difficult concept, i.e. what are the dharmas.  For 
this, he draws mostly on Vasubandhu's abhidharmakosha.  The book is only 91 
small pages long, and although reading through it is by no means easy 
going, it does provide something of a Sarvastivadin abhidharma 101, 
relatively painlessly.
  
Stcherbatsky and other members of the Russian school of Buddhology were the 
first scholars in the West to solidly nail down the meaning of many 
Buddhist technical terms in Sanskrit.  Occasionally, his discourse will 
strike you as somewhat archaic and severe but these deficiencies pale 
before his relentless drive for clarity of understanding.
 
On p. 3 of the book, T.S. provides the most breathtakingly simple 
definition of Buddhism I have ever come across:
 
"The formula of the Buddhist credo (ye dhamma, etc.) - which professedly 
contains the shortest statement of the essence and spirit of Buddhism - 
declares that Buddha discovered the elements (dhamma) of existence, their 
causal connection, and a method to suppress their efficiency forever 
(nirodho).  Vasubandhu makes a similar statement about the essence of the 
doctrine: it is a method of converting the elements of existence into a 
condition of rest, out of which they will never emerge again."
 
There you have it.
 
BTW, in my post yesterday on abhidharma and prajnaparamita, I complained 
that although Edward Conze had published countless pages of translations of 
the PP sutras, he had written a great deal less on the exegesis of these 
scriptures.  I found out since that in 1960 he published a monograph 
entitled "The Prajnaparamita Literature".  I have never seen that book but 
perhaps it contains what I wanted from the man.
 
Jochen Kleinschmidt