From: JLIECHTY@UCS.INDIANA.EDU (Jon Liechty)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: Translation of Klauxdjo's response to Eric
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:43:54 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

Because I suspect that Eric may not fully understand Esperanto, 
I've translated Claudio's responses.  I've deleted the address
information (hoping to spare those paying for EMAIL the
repetition).  Within this text, my comments are in brackets []. 
My translation is given on lines preceded by }.  BEWARE.  THIS
MESSAGE IS VERY LONG.  IF YOU KNOW ESPERANTO ALREADY AND HAVE
READ KLAUXDJO'S NOTE, YOU CAN SKIP IT UNLESS YOU WANT TO HASSLE
ME ABOUT MY MISTAKES ;-].
 
From:   EDU%"PRDESENV%orion.cpqd.ansp.br@UICVM.UIC.EDU"     
"Claudio Max" 14-APR-1992 08:46:20.39 
To:     ESPERANTO@rand.org       
Subj:   Respondo al Eric_o 
   
From: "Eric Thomas, SUNET"  
  
> >Esperanto is estimated to be 4-10 times easier to learn than
natural 
> >languages. 
  
>I am tired of this argument. It is totally meaningless and
unscientific, since 
>neither the native language of the speaker nor the natural
language being 
>compared to Esperanto is mentioned. 
>But another important factor, and 
>probably the most important of all, is willingness to learn. 
  
Pri lernovolo mi tute kunsentas. 
Sed tio ne estas la nura afero. Mi lernis la angla dum 5 jaroj
NEVOLONTE. 
Mi lernas E-on kun granda plezuro dum tri duono da jaroj.
Nuntempe mi parolas 
la Esperantan pli facile ol la Angla. DO por lerni la Esperanta
estas 3,33 
fojoj pli facila ol la Angla, en mia sperto. 
Eble mi lacigis vin iomete plu :) . 
 
} I totally agree about willingness to learn.  But that's not
} what we're talking about now.  I learned English in 5 years
} UNWILLINGLY.  I learned Esperanto with great pleasure in
} three half-years.  [Klauxdjo: Cxu tri jaroj kaj duono,
  aux cxu tri duon-jaroj?]
} SO learning Esperanto is 3.33 times easier than English, in my
} experience.  Maybe I'm making you even more tired.
 
>Learning English 
>is a necessity in today's business world, and lets you
understand MTV, movies 
>in English, and so on. 
  
Ne. La necesa lingvo hodiaux sxajnas al mi esti la japana. Cxu ne
;-) ? 
Nuntempe ecx la usonanoj komencas lerni gxin ( Ho, la forto de la
mono...). 
Kaj certe oni bezonas PLI ol nur la angla por kompreni MTV  
(eble la usona). 
 
} No. The necessary language today seems to me to be Japanese,
} no?  Currently even U.S. citizens have begun to learn it
} (Oh, the power of money...)  And certainly you need MORE
} than just English to understand MTV (maybe in the U.S.)  
 
> English lets you go about anywhere in the world and find 
>people who will understand you. 
Bone, kompreni ja ne signifas komuniki. 
Parolante angle kun franco (germano, italo) estas la pli rapida
maniero 
por fari malamikemulojn. 
 
} Well, understanding really is not the same as communication.
} Speaking English with a French person (or a German, or an
} Italian) is the fastest way to make people tend to hate you.
  
>The younger generation is mostly enthusiastic 
>about learning English, even though they may be reluctant to use
it. 
Cxu pri kia juna generacio vi parolas? Sxajnas al mi ke CXIU
junulo 
(kiu mi konas) _en_mia_lando_ MALAMAS lerni ian ajn lingvon. Sed
kiam 
ili faras tion volonte, ili preferas la franca aux la itala - pro
beleco; 
la germana aux la japana pro tauxgo; la rusa pro scivolemo kaj
E-o pro 
amikemo. 
 
} Which younger generation are you talking about?  Seems to me
} EVERY young person (that I know) _in_my_country_ HATES to learn
} any language at all.  But when they do it willingly, they
} prefer French or Italian - for beauty; German or Japanese -
} for practicality; Russian out of curiosity and Esperanto out of
} friendship.
  
>Esperanto, 
>on the other hand, brings you close to nothing nowadays. 
Certe miaj amikoj (EN LA TUTA MONDO) malkunsentos kun vi :-) 
} Certainly my friends (ALL OVER THE WORLD) will disagree with
} you.
  
>MTV and movies are 
>certainly not being switched to Esperanto anytime soon, nor will
the population 
 >of the US (and ancillary industry) start talking Esperanto. 
Unue: la usonanoj ne estas la plej grava afero en mia vivo (tio
ne veras 
por Galvin, Evans kaj aliaj E-o-retanoj:) ) 
Cxar pli grava por mi estas la homoj. La naskigxloko sxajnas al
mi tre 
hazarda afero. 
Due: Kiam la transnaciaj industrioj scios la kvanto da mono estas
perdita 
en tradukado, ili tuj sxangxos la vidpunkton. 
(Certe nun mi naivas. transnaciaj industrioj cxiam uzas la
denaskan lingvon). 
 
} First: U.S. citizens are not the most important thing in my
} life (that's not true for Galvin, Evans, and other people on
} the Esperanto net.).  Because the most important thing to me
} is people.  One's birthplace seems to me very much a matter of
} chance.
} Second:  When multinational industries realize the amount of
} money wasted on translation, they will soon change their minds.
} (Now I'm surely being naive.  Multinational industries always
} use their home language).
 
>I was not 
>talking about intellectual literature but things which please
the masses - just 
 >about what you see on MTV most of the time). 
  
MTV estas via vivkialo, cxu ne? :-> 
} MTV is your reason for living, isn't it?
    
>Whereas, of course, people who go to conferences in Esperanto
are very likely 
>to go if they don't speak Esperanto. Brilliant reasoning I must
say. 
  
Eric, ci ne volis vidi la punkton. La afero estas la
'internacieco' de la 
konferenco. 
} Eric, you don't want to see the point.  The point is the
} "international character" of the conference.
 
[Translation (hopefully accurate) by Jon Liechty]
 
Klauxdjo 
prdesenv@venus.cpqd.ansp.br 
Brazilo.