From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: Re: Need LISA (Yes LISA) system disks
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 08:12:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.034751.6419@intelhf.hf.intel.com> george@hfglobe.intel.com (George Rachor) writes:
>Yes folks I found a LISA.  This one has a 3.5 in floppy drive so  I am hoping
>it might be more closly related to the Mac XL.
>
>I'm looking for system software for this beast.  When I turn the machine
>on it gets as far as wanting a floppy disk to be inserted.  Here is what
>I a really worried about:  I would expect any 400K floppy diskette to be
>examined but when I put the diskette in I can't detect any motor vibration.

As I recall, the Lisa drive was very difficult to hear.  The drive is
identical to that used in early 128's and 512's; there's a simple hack
to add an LED "in use" indicator to it.  I'll post it, if there's any
interest; it's a MacPaint 1.5 file.


>Is this normal?  The local Apple dealer made a gallent effort 

<snicker> :-)  Mistake number one: never go to Apple dealers for support.


>and has come
>up with all sorts of applications but between the two of us we still haven't
>found anything that will boot this. 
>
>Or should I just add this to an aging collection?

(sigh)

The Lisa 2 was essentially a Lisa with *one* 3.5" 400K drive, no bundled
software (maybe some system stuff; I don't remember), and a variety of
configurations: 512K of memory or 1M of memory; and no, 5, or 10M hard
disks.  Both hard disks became known as "Profiles," but in my mind, the
Profile will always be the 5M tank that sat on top of the Apple ///.  But
I digress. :-)  The Lisa 2/5 retailed for about $6000 when it came out;
food for thought, for those who insist on whining about not getting any
computer from Apple, anymore.

The 5M hard disk went on top (the Profile); the 10M goes in the front case.
If you find early Lisa 1's, sometimes, you'll find TWO 5M Profiles
stacked on top!  This before the 10M unit was released with the Lisa 2.

Both the Lisa and Lisa 2 were rather dumb machines, nowhere near the 
ROM support of the Mac.  Virtually everything useful was in software;
that's one reason it was so slow.  And a reason why it was reasonably
effective at running two operating systems (and, yes, the MacOS was
MUCH faster than the Office System).

The Mac XL WAS a Lisa 2/10, bundled with MacWorks and a version of the
Macintosh documentation.  MacWorks was the key: it was a program to load
what amounted to a Macintosh 64K ROM emulator.  

There were many "64K" versions of MacWorks, but two with identifiable
features.  One required you to insert a floppy after system start-up.
It chug-a-lugged for a long while, displayed the Welcome to Macintosh
screen, belched it out, and attempted to mount a hard disk, if any.
Otherwise, one could put a little floppy in (get a ramdisk, if you use
this approach!), which could launch, say, System 4.1.

The other version could be installed on the hard disk.  In this case,
(theoretically) one would just turn the computer/hard disk on, and it
would boot up.  I found that quite often it would "lose" the hard disk.
Since it took a minute for the hard disk's self-diagnostics to pass,
power-cycling to try to get the system to gel was quite aggravating.

The Mac XL was shipped with the latter version (Version 3.1, if I recall).

Unfortunately, the 64K ROMs didn't support a hierarchical file system:
that meant that all "standard" system file operations were REAL slow.  A 
company, Sun Remarketing, sells a "128K" version, which purports to bring 
it up to a Mac Plus level (assuming you have the memory), but I'd really 
have to question why you're putting yourself through this.  Used Plusses
with hard disks are less than $600, used ($500, if you know who to ask);
without, they range from $400 to $450.  It isn't THAT much more to pay,
and it's a much faster machine.


The cool thing about the Lisa, IMHO, was that it LOOKED like a computer.
There was the Apple ///, then the Lisa.  Everything else Apple's produced
has either looked... odd... or IBM-ish "boxes." :-)  The other neat thing
was that until the Plus really demonstrated how slow the Lisa had become,
it was pretty fun to have a "large screen" to play with.  

But, boy, was that sucker SLOW...  slow, slow, SLOW...  (faster than the
Mac 128, though! :-)).

Call Sun Remarketing.  They're rip-off artists, but they'll get your
computer running.  I also have a 3.1 disk around here somewhere,
if you want it.


>George L. Rachor Jr.
>Prefered mail address:
>george@endeavor.intel.com




---
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc