From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Sanity arrives to this group! Welcome back Susan!
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:35:01 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <susan.703387047@coombs>, susan@coombs.anu.edu.au (Susan McDonald) writes:
> 	Perhaps it was a poor choice of words, however, when taken in
> the context of what that post was about ("Someone picking a fight") those
> words make a little more sense.  When I wrote them, I meant, and what
> obviously Chris decided to ignore, either intentionally or unintentionally,
> was that I mean that when someone provokes a fight if you return in kind,
> all you are doing is playing directly into their hands.  They WANTED that
> fight and here you are providing them with the opportunity to beat you
> up.

No, thanks, the opportunity's already happened -- they're there, and I'm there.
Maybe you meant providing them with an EXCUSE to beat you up.  Perhaps Oz is
so civilized that troublemakers need an actual excuse to beat you up.  In that
case, you should get around more.  Anywhere else, in fact.

> 	When I said "such bigots should be pitied and ignored, not
> physically fought against" I mean that people when faced with a provocation
> of that type (ie, "Hey, you, you poofta/lesbian/queer/nigger!") should
> not out of some mistaken (IMO) sence of honour get into a fight with them.
> Instead they should ignore the provocation and actually pity the person who
> has made it because of some misguided bigotry.

How about when they provoke you with "Hey, you, poofta/lesbian/queer/
nigger <THUD!>"  Now what?

Don't bother pretending that such cases don't happen or are statistically
insignificant.  My personal experience says otherwise.  I repeat, now what?

> 	Well, we have seen several, suggest that when someone poured a beer
> over the head of Dave that if they had been faced with the same sort of
> situation, would not have ignored the insult, but would have instead "fought"
> (and you can place what ever contitation you like on that word).

Now it's my turn to ask for a quote.  I saw a number of people suggest that
standing there foamy and grinning was somewhat stupid.  I saw a couple of
people suggest that letting the bully get that close in the first place was
a mistake (gee, sounds a lot like what you say about avoiding trouble, now, 
doesn't it?)  I don't remember anyone counseling retaliation.

> 	To me, that makes an assumption that they were placed in a situation
> where a fight COULD have been AVOIDED, yet chose instead to actually get into
> a fight with someone.
> 	To Christopher and others, it seems that such a suggestion as actually
> avoiding a fight, rather than allowing others to provoke it and fulfill their
> wishes for a fight, is anethema.  To me, at least, that is more the thinking
> of small boys who have to prove their "toughness" than mature adults who
> don't go looking for fights if they can avoid them.

"Our wishes for a fight."  Grow up.  I wish to stay as far away from fights
as possible; and when one is thrust upon me, I desire to have the means to
stop it as quickly as possible, with the bully walking away with a whole
skin if he chooses to be smart, or not if he chooses otherwise.
-- 

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Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns