From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: An open question...
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:52:50 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <1992Aug31.071241.2040@oclc.org> jay@oclc.org (Young Jeff) writes:
|tom@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM (Tom Albrecht) writes:
|: In article <1992Aug26.202508.2666@oclc.org> jay@oclc.org (Young Jeff) writes:
|: >
|: >Another example:
|: >From my reading of Matthew, it is obvious that he took OT quotes
|: >out of context to establish the messiahhood.  If the authors
|: >are capable of misquoting to gain converts, how authoritative
|: >should we believe them to be?

The seekers of signs and wisdom see the point of our preaching (the cross) 
as foolishness, but to us who believe it is the power of God (I Cor 1:17-31).  

From the Book of Revelations, we find that "the testimony of Jesus
is the spirit prophecy" (Rev 19:10) and from Paul's writtings that "the things
of the spirit are hidden from those without the spirit."

Should not the whole of prophecy be understood in light of the
testimony (the witness, the past, present and future acts, the works, 
the person) of Jesus the Christ, the Alpha and Omega?

We have there in the Book of Revelation a direct statement about
prophecy and how it relates to Jesus.  Prophecy can and often does 
have multiple fulfillments.

After Jesus rose from death, he show his disciple how the law, prophets,
and psalms pointed to himself (Luke 24:44).

One can use the words like 'alleged' or phrases like 'it was not intended to
be a prophecy' all one wants, but proper understanding would lead to 
another and the correct understanding.

Jesus was on earth once to be the payment of sin, but when he returns
he will bring salvation and declare the day of God's vengence (an example
of Luke 4:18 only quoting part of the prophecy in Isaiah).

Jesus himself revealed to his disciples more than what man can pull out
or put down about himself and the information recorded about him in the OT.
It seems Jesus knew somethings the disciples didn't and so taught them.
 
|: Well, it not obvious that Matthew took quotes "out of context."  The
|: traditional Christian perspective is that the apostles, under the divine
|: guidance of the Holy Spirit, were ESTABLISHING the proper context for the
|: OT prophecies concerning Messiah.  
|
|Are you saying their original contexts were in error?
|
|Mat 1:22-23.  This refers to Is. 7:14.  It is clear in Is. that
|it is Isaiah's own son that was being referred to by this "prophesy".
|
|Mat 2:5-6.  This refers to Micah 5:2.  It is clear here that King
|David is being referred to.
|
|Mat 2:15.  This refers to Hosea 11:1.  It is clear here that the
|nation of Israel is being referred to.
|
|Mat 2:23.  This "prophesy" isn't to be found in the OT.
|
|Mat 3:3.  This "prophesy" refers to Is. 40:3.  It is clear here that
|what is being referred to was the Lord going before the Israelites
|as they make their 900 mile journey from Babylon to Palestine.
|
|Mat 21:5.  This prophesy refers to Zechariah 9:9.  Although it isn't
|made clear, the passage may refer to Alexander the Great.  The most
|interesting part of it is that in Zec., the conquerer enters "riding
|upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass."  The other gospel
|writers understand that a single animal is being referred to here and
|have Jesus entering Jerusalem on a single ass.  Mat. however, 
|misunderstands the quote and has Jesus riding into Jerusalem on
|two animals at the same time!
|
|Mat 27:9.  This prophesy isn't to be found in Jeremiah as it claims.
|It appears to come from Zech. 11:12-13.  These two passages are not
|parallel and was apparently included by Mat. in his zeal to include
|OT connections.
|
|The author of Matthew is an evangelist and just like many today, isn't
|afraid to take verses out of context to support his agenda. I know
|many Christians, especially fundamentalists, claim that these are
|also archetypes for the coming of the messiah.  I see no reason to
|doubt this is anything but apologetic contortionism.  I won't deny
|that the concept of the messiah appears in the OT.  Matthew should
|have stuck to them instead of grasping at straws.
|
|: Remember, Christians believe that the
|: gospel of Matthew is just as much "Torah" or teaching, as Leviticus or
|: Isaiah.  The OT and NT stand on equal footing as far as divine law is
|: concerned, and one cannot be comprehended without the other.
|: 
|: If this is the case, then they were obviously not misquoting the OT.  No
|: doubt they were engaging in much the same activity as Jesus engaged in with
|: clashes with the Pharisees and scribes.  They had developed an intricate
|: system of interpretation for various OT laws and prophecies.  Jesus came
|: and exposed the real problem with all this tradition.  He righted the
|: wrongs of generations of neglect.  The apostles were simple carrying on the
|: pattern established by Jesus.
|
|I am sure there are Christians who understand the problems with these
|prophesies.  I am curious how they deal with them.

I let the men who walked with and were taught by Jesus the Christ take the lead.

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
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