HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Mini-van or utility vehicle...4WD vs gas mileage
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:16:21 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su) writes:
> 
> The Mitsubishi Exp LRV [has] AWD, though it is permanently engaged.

By definition AWD is always engaged; this is technically possible because
of a front/rear differential.  Normally 4WD has low-range, whereas AWD
does not.  Some 4WD/AWD systems (such as Jeep Quadratrac) have low-range,
and are permanently engaged as well.

Greenpeace claims that a gallon of gasoline burns into 20 pounds of CO2.
That is reason enough to desire good fuel economy.  As a public service,
I'm listing the EPA mileage figures for all AWD and 4WD vehicles in the
1993 Edmunds import car prices book.  Isuzu is missing from this book,
for unknown reasons.  Can anyone add domestics?  The Mazda Navajo 4WD is
identical to the Ford Explorer two-door.

Audi 90 Quattro		17/22			no automatic
Audi 100 Quattro	18/23	auto 18/22
Mazda MPV 4WD			auto 15/19	no low range
Mazda Navajo 4WD	17/22	auto 15/20
Mercedes 300E AWD		auto 19/25	no manual
Mercedes 300TE AWD		auto 17/21	T = station wagon
Mitsub. LRV AWD		22/26	auto 21/25
Mitsub. Expo AWD	19/24	auto 19/23
Mitsub. Montero 4WD		auto 15/18	no manual
Nissan Pathfinder 4WD	15/18	auto 15/18
Subaru Legacy AWD	21/27	auto 21/27
Subaru Loyale AWD	24/29	auto 22/23
Toyota Celica All-trac	19/24			no automatic
Toyota 4Runner 4WD	19/22			automatic requires V6
Toyota 4Runner V6 4WD	14/18	auto 14/16
Toyota Land Bruiser		auto 12/15	no manual

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: flower@donald.etdesg.trw.com (Rick Flower)
Subject: Transmissions on Pre-78 GM 4x4 Trucks
Originator: flower@donald
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 20:09:14 GMT

I've got a few questions for some all-knowing GM-ite person out there...  
I'm wondering if the transmissions that were put on pre-78 GM 4x4 trucks
were heavier duty transmissions or just the regular type used on the 
passenger cars (eg. Turbo 350/Turbo 400, etc...)?

I know that between the 78-80 time period, GM used a beefier transmission on 
the 4x4 trucks which can be determined by examining the flywheel cover 
(ie. it will have struts which connect to the motor mounts).  I've currently 
got a 1980 K5 Blazer which recently had a rebuilt transmission put in.. 
However, the "new" transmission I just found out is NOT of this heavy duty 
variety.  A different transmission shop that notified me about this, claims 
that I *MAY* crack my case if I do any heavy off-roading with this 
transmission configuration.  Can this "alternate" configuration cause any
bad problems in terms of off-roading??

Any information would be appreciated!

Thanks for your time!

-- Rick
(REFdude)
-- 
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
|      Available      | Internet Addr: flower@donald.etdesg.TRW.COM or        |
|      for Lease      |                rickf@theweav.cts.com                  |
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
From: aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:51:23 GMT
Organization: Helen Keller Bondurant's Performance Driving School for the Blind

In article <184826@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>>If you don't like the Saturns, fine, but many drivers who appear to have done 
>>far more exhaustive comparisons than you prefer the Saturns.  
>    
>    A LOT of people bought Pinto's too....and Chrysler K-cars.  
>    And since you are taking cheap shots at my "comparisons", I'll
>    just make a return shot that if you like cheap little buzzy

I didn't take any "cheap shots at your comparisons", I just said that
your sample size of Saturns checked (2, of past model years) was not
staistically significant compared to the large number of Saturn owners
on the Saturn mailing list.

>>two.  Meanwhile, I'm glad my mom got out of her deathtrap Accord into an SL1,
>>so I don't have to work on the damn Accord every few months anymore.
>>
>     Hmmmmm, after the FIRST repair, I usually blame the repairman
>     for the second one....

Oh, THAT figures.  I'm sure that the competent mechanic you are, the first time
you work one one thing, nothing ever fails elsewhere in the car, eh?

--
Alan Denney      aland@informix.com      {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland

"A leopard never changes his stripes" -- Vice-president-elect Al Gore
From: cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com (R. Craig Dodson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Date: 7 Jan 1993 22:03:51 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: beast.cac.stratus.com

In article <thzr00h@lynx.unm.edu> bhjelle@carina.unm.edu () writes:
> In article <1993Jan6.185357.28923@oakhill.sps.mot.com>  
rvkl60@aus18a25.sps.mot.com (Tom Mathes) writes:
> >>>
> >>  ain't an Accord either.
> >
> >Thank goodness it's not another Accord.  What an overpriced, overhyped
> >car.  A car in that price class should have more power, and a better
> >suspension (too soft in my book).  Looks boring to boot.  The LH and
> >Taurus are better examples of decent cars.
> >
> >As for engine noise, I prefer the aggressive growl of my 92 SC over
> >the whine out of a Honda engine.
> >
> Perfect customer for an American auto, especially circa 1970.
> Some of us aren't counting horsepower, looks or the "growl" of
> the engine as highly as you. If so, we would all buy Corvettes
> or similar. Some of us are looking for reliability, safety,
> good MPG, low maintenance costs. I have a Honda Civic that
> I am very happy with. In 2.5 years, if has never failed to
> start (even a single attempt!), or needed any repairs of
> any kind. It gets close to 40 mpg. I wouldn't trade it for yours.
> 
> Brian

I was going to stay out of this, but I can't resist. Saturns are proving
to be very reliable and the spaceframe construction makes them extremely
safe. They also get excellent gas mileage - the twin cams average in the low
30's and the single cams average high 30's. And I'll compare maintenance costs
with any Honda owner any day of the year. Had those valves adjusted yet ? 
Gotta get 'em checked every 15k ya know, to the tune of $150 or so. Had
that timing belt replaced yet ? Nothing like dropping $300 or so every 60k.
When your car evertually does get old and you need things like water pumps,
alternators, etc you can look forward to paying typical import car parts
prices. I'll just go down to the local parts counter where they'll have
a part in stock for minimal $$$. 

But I like my Saturn (SL2) because it's *fun to drive* - handling,  
acceleration, braking, steering feel, lateral seat support all combine
to make the Saturn infintely more exciting that the "please everyone"
Accord and Civic "blandmobiles".

It's kind of like well-constructed and reliable 16v VW . . .

Craig Dodson (Stratus Computer)
cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Car Phones
From: dwsmall@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Derek 'Enzo' Small)
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:04:44 -0500
Followup-To: rec.autos
Distribution: rec
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

>> Anyone know how to get rid of the whirling chime noise that is caused by
>> wind going through the wire tunnel of a phone antenna? I put a plastic bag
>> around it, but that looks too tacky.  I saw a car that had a plastic tube
>> around the circular part of the antenna.  That may help.  Any suggestions
>> or comments?

Since it's only the noise you need to eliminate and not the air flow, try
doing something to deaden the vibrations of the antena.  Try a small rubber
ball located just above the coil on the straight part.  I've good luck
getting rid of humming noise from straight raido antennas this way.  Those 
little round "super balls" you see in $.25 vending machines work well if
you can get them on the antenna.

-- 
*******************************************************************************
* Derek "Enzo" Small                   [san.dwsmall]@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu    *
*                                      Miami University, Oxford, Ohio 45056   *
*******************************************************************************
*                                                                             *
*   Long live Enzo Ferrari  !!!!!!!!                                          *
*                                                                             *
*   May his lagacy nor his cars ever collect dust.                            *
*                                                                             *
*******************************************************************************
From: cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com (R. Craig Dodson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Date: 11 Jan 1993 22:12:02 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: beast.cac.stratus.com

Continuing saga of Dave trying feebly to knock the SC . . .

> And I've driven the Saturn, the MX-3, the Impulse, and the Talon and I report
> exactly the opposite.  I thought the handling of the Saturn was terrible.   
All
> this proves is that we have different opinions.

I think it proves an underlying anti-GM feeling you have that affects
your judgement. Every major magazine from CU to R&T has reported
favorably on the handling of the twin cam cars. To quote R&T "..it's
as if they've grafted the confident cornering stance of the Camaro/Firebird
onto the much smaller cars (Saturn SC2/SL2)" . Please tell us exactly
what made them "handle terrible". I just can't see how you can say a car
with excellent variable-rate steering, negligible body roll, and very
high cornering limits handles badly. Compared to a F1 car, maybe. Compared to
Diamond Stars, MX-3's and Integras - I don't think so.

If you insist on continuing this, I'll drag in the mags and post handling,
braking and acceleration figures for the above cars. You won't be
happy with the results - trust me.
> 
> |> In maintenance and insurance, I win that contest easily over these  
imports.  
> |> I'm happy with my car, and that's what matters to me.  According to Mr.  
J.D.
> |> Powers' firm, Saturn owners are much happier with their cars than Honda or 
> |> Acura or Mazda owners.  Isn't that what really matters after all?
> 
> Whatever - I still say 1 year isn't long enough.  If Saturns fall apart after  
2 or
> 3 years everyone will scream that they are crap and GM hasn't changed.   
Personally,
> I'll wait and see.
> 
> Don Clayton

Well mine is just about 2 years old now and it's been absolutely fantastic.
I drive the car pretty hard, too. But then again, I've always had good luck
with GM cars (believe it or not) which is why I ultimately decided on
Saturn.

Craig Dodson (Stratus Computer)
cdodson@zen.cac.stratus.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo)
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Organization: Chicago Home for the Morally Challenged
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:37:06 GMT


> 
> You're right that they replaced the Samurai with the Sidekick.  They
> had no choice since the bad press destroyed the Samurai's reputation
> regardless of whether or not the claims were founded in the truth.
> You want to try selling that model after it's been publicly beat upon?

Chrysler seemed to do a great job of it after CR torpedoed the OMNI.
They just quietly fixed the problem and kept on making them. Suzuki was
unable to quietly fix the problem ( which they knew darn well existed)
without major changes in the frame. 


> 
> From what I remember their sales took a *tremendous* beating, and the
> bad thing about the whole ordeal is that the Samurai was no more prone
> to tipover than the Jeep Cherokee -- something which *nobody* bothered
> to mention.

Because it isn't true. While Jeeps are more likely to roll, they are not as
bad as the Samurai.  CR compared its test figures for both. THey stand by their
test to this day.

  It would have been polite to at least test similar models
> by other manufacturers to give a fair comparison, but all they did was
> show that you could tip over the Samurai by throwing it into repeated
> hard turns at 30mph.  No kidding -- you can tip almost any vehicle of
> that type over that way.

CBS News compared side by side tapes of CR's tests and Suzuki tests. The
CR vehicle was fitted with light outriggers that were just sturdy enough to 
catch the vehicle when it tipped. It clearly showed that the Samurai went over 
like a top when put through their standard test for accident avoidence. They
made it clear that this was unacceptable for any vehicle of this type.

Suzuki's tape showed a vehicle fitted with very low slung out riggers that 
looked like enclosed 10" I beams swiped out of the frame of the World Trade
Center.  The snap turns they made were about as fast as an 80 year old man
in a wheel chair, a pathetic cover up.


> Biased reporting damned the Samurai.


Damned good reporting put an end to the career of an accident looking for
a victim to buy it.

                                               Larry Mayo
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Tricks for cold weather?
Date: 11 Jan 1993 14:21:06 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

koziarz@halibut.nosc.mil (Walter A. Koziarz) writes:
>*N*E*V*E*R* use 'WD-40' in a lock or any other similar mechanism...

This is good advice.  Many locks are "permanently lubricated"
nowadays.  As with sealed bearings, spraying WD40 into them can
degrade the lubrication.

I once WD-40'd a small set of sealed bearings, which destroyed them in
short order.  Never again.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Under dash Radar Detector
Date: 12 Jan 1993 19:45:13 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu


Can anyone recommend an under the dash style radar detector that
detects all 3 bands?  Thanks.

-- 
 Scott Streeter                             Visit the Star Wars Archive at
 ss@wpi.wpi.edu                             wpi.wpi.edu       130.215.24.1
Xref: sparky rec.autos:31567 rec.autos.tech:17751
From: jas20@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (John A Sigmon)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: 4-Runner with no ignition AdvanceHelp!!
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:39:59 GMT
Reply-To: jas20@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (John A Sigmon)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Hi,
I have an '86 Toyota 4-Runner that will not advance the timing ( computer
controlled 22RE ).  It has been into the shop about 3 times with no
resolution.  The computer gives no error codes, so if it is a sensor it is
stuck at a legal value.
Has anyone seen this problem, and if so what was the cause?
Please if you have any clues send me an Email at the above address, or post
it to this news group.
Thanks
John Sigmon
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: troyf@microware.com (Troy Frericks)
Subject: Re: Car Phones
Organization: Microware Systems Corp., Des Moines, Iowa
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:11:11 GMT

>
>Subject: Re: Car Phones
> 
>Here is a test that you can run for yourself.  Next time you see 
>someone on a car phone, note how fast he/she is driving.  More 
>often than not, the driver will be running slower than surrounding 
>traffic.  This seems to be an automatic defense mechanism, when 
>you aren't fully aware of your situation, at least you slow down.  
>I once followed a woman in a BWM for 10 miles.  She had a car 
>phone propped on her shoulder, and was driving about 48 mph in the 
>passing lane (speed limit 55 mph).  As soon as she hung up, off 
>she sped at about 65 mph. 
> 
>
Now it seems like we are pushing for legislation to require the
use of cruse controls.  You will always find people who can't drive,
car phone or no.  I once had an old man with a hat driving in the
passing lane at about 45 mph.  He, by the way, didn't have a car
phone.  He didn't proceed to speed up untill I moved over to the
right lane to pass, (pressing resume on my cruse), and he continued
to stay in my blind spot for about 2 miles until I sped up to about
80 mph.  When I got a few hundred feet in front of him, I let off
the gas (cruse then continued to hold me at 65 mph).  I noticed that
he continued to move further and further back.
From: aq456@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Terry Quinn)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: '93 Probe GT in snow.
Date: 8 Jan 93 02:01:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Steve writes . . .
 
> I'm considering the purchase of a '93 Probe GT.  However, I notice that
> it comes standard with P225VR16 (or something) Goodyear tires.  That
> is, performance, directional tires that I've heard are horrible
> in anything but dry pavement (or, should I say, are terrific, if you
> can avoid driving in rain or snow ...)
> 
> Unfortunately, this has to be a factor, since the new car would have
> to be my only car, for a while at least, and I currently live in a
> semi-rural area of Michigan that's about 35 minutes away from my
> work/school.
> 
> So I have two questions, if anyone can answer:
> 
> 1) is this true? That is, how "bad" are they?  Or, can they actually be
>    driven under adverse conditions?
 
I've owned three cars that had Goodyear Gatorback rubber.  My '85 
Corvette with P255-50VR16's is hell on snow.  My Dodge '88 Lancer 
Shelby with P205-60VR15's does fine on snow (fwd).  A friend who 
had a Dodge Shadow ES with P225-50VR15s said it was murder on 
snow.
 
Conclusion . . . this is a stiff tire to gain responsiveness, and 
it doesn't want to self-clean.  But if the contact patch is 
relatively small, it seems to work okay.  
 
-- 
                                    Terry Quinn
                                     Germantown Hills, IL
                                      tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu
                                       aq456@cleveland.freenet.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bromwich@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Adam Todd Bromwich)
Subject: I need a used car w/ an airbag under $10g..
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 03:47:20 GMT

I'm looking for a used car, but I have some interesting specs--in fact I
wonder if such a car can be found.

First and foremost I need an airbag (two would be a dream).  Yes,
previously I wouldn't have cared, but I've lost one car already to a
deer and was lucky to walk away.  

Otherwise, it can be a sports car, coupe, or sedan.  Currently I'm
driving a Maxima SE and love it...no airbag though.  It can be a quirky
car, like a Sterling or Peugeot (anything to get the price down).  

The trouble I've been having is that I have no idea when most car models
began offering aribags...and I refuse to drive an econobox.


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck)
Subject: Re: Dealer Prep Ought to be Road Kill!
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.
Date: 12 Jan 93 12:21:29 GMT

In article <C0K07t.DDz@ssesco.com> nau@ssesco.com (William Nau) writes:
>Dealer Inspection, Dealer Prep, Advertising, and Delivery Charge are all
>part of the the dealers profit.  If he expects to be paid for it, it should
>be included in his profit.  


aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic) writes:
>"WRONG!"  
>Look, people.  Delivery charges and national advertising fees are a COST OF
>GOODS SOLD.  So are prep charges if the dealer uses an outside prep center
>(although there may be some markup on prep; it varies).  These are separate
>line-items that are paid for outside of the invoice cost of the car & options
>themselves.  

'delivery charges', yes.
these ARE a separate line item, and are not part of the negotiating
process.  no problem with that.


>You can argue all you want that the dealer should pay for it out
>of his/her markup, which you probably CAN if you are paying MSRP.  But if
>you're being a smart buyer and researching invoice prices, don't kid yourself
>into thinking that you can offer $100 over invoice or whatever and expect the
>dealer to *also* pick up the other costs and still make enough money for
>the sale to be worth his time.  

i'll still argue that everything else should come out of the "profit"
portion of the deal.  when the hardware store sells you a power drill,
they don't tack on line-items associating with their advertising costs,
shelf-stocking time, lights and heating overheads, etc.
neither should a car dealer.

if indeed the negotiations are at the level of "ok, i'll let you have
$100 for profit that will be going into your pocket alone", then perhaps
all the "little fees that add up" _do_ have to enter into the equation.  
after all, the money has to go several places, not just to the salesperson.
if the customer is allowing a more reasonable profit margin, then everything
should be considered to be included in the price, and nobody should try
to tack on "additional fees" (except for the delivery charges already
mentioned).


i DO grant that a $100 profit on a $10,000 piece of merchandise is
unreasonable.  when the deal is complete, there *has* to be more money
than that remaining for the dealer, or it isn't worth the time spent
in making the sale.  customers have to be reasonable in their demands,
just as dealers _should be_.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: Al Mark <amark@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: The Bizzare Freezing Honda Civic
Organization: JPL, Pasadena, CA
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b2
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:44:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.234233.13953@henson.cc.wwu.edu> BarryB,
n8846069@henson.cc.wwu.edu writes:
>I have an '87 Honda Civic that is having a really bizzare problem.
>The temperatures here are around 25 degrees F.  After the car
>has sat outside for as little as a couple of hours, both of the
>rear wheels will be locked.  Since the roads are icy, when I try
>to drive off, the rear wheels just stay in place and get pulled

Don't set your parking brake......when you do, any moisture on your rear
brake shoes freezes.....end result is a nice ice bond between the shoe
surface and the drum.  The snap you hear is the bond breaking.
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
 AL MARK                                                        
 I brake for deer....NOW..     
 Honk if you like earthquakes! 
....My employer knows nothing about this....I know even less.....
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
From: rogers@calamari.hi.com (Andrew Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: pop-up lights
Date: 6 Jan 1993 11:17:49 -0000
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products, OSSD division
NNTP-Posting-Host: calamari.hi.com

In article <1993Jan6.155939.26088@fcom.cc.utah.edu> bbarkey@lark.utah.edu (Brian Barkey) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.033537.6595@nuscc.nus.sg> matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (.) writes:
>>
>>Which was the first production car with pop-up headlights?		  
>
>	Corvettes? 

Cord used 'em in the 1930's.  As far as I know, they were the first.

>>What are their advantages/disadvantages?

>	disadvantages:two more complicated and expensive things that can break.

You wouldn't even want to think about how much they cost to repair if they
get trashed in an accident - nearly $900 to repair just *one* of them on
my '79 RX-7 six years ago, and the motors and limit switches were still
usable...

AWR
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (.)
Subject: pop-up lights
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 03:35:37 GMT


Which was the first production car with pop-up headlights?		  
What are their advantages/disadvantages?