From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Subject: Re: Any tips for a pilot-to-be?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:53:46 GMT

From article <2621@usna.NAVY.MIL>, by dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC)):
> In article <1993Jan11.040241.23474@netcom.com> hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong) writes:
> !From article <1993Jan11.033003.26791@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!, by ginsberg@t.Stanford.EDU (Matthew L. Ginsberg):
> !!!The forcast then called for no cloud at or near that level, 
> !!!and having not come close to cloud prior, I made a bad call (about how
> !!!close I was to the cloud).
> !! 
> !! [Other sarcastic comments deleted.]
> !! 
> !! Let's give Mr. Chong a break.  Our complaint isn't with him, it's with
> !! his instructor.  If he can't tell how far away a cloud is while flying,
> !! and feels that climbing into/near clouds to get over a mountain is
> !! sensible for a student pilot, he shouldn't be flying solo.
> !! 
> !! 						Matt Ginsberg
> !
> !Wow, I can see it now.  Mr Ginsberg pitying poor Chinaman, cannot even
> !drive, must less fly a plane.  If a Chinaman should make a mistake, that
> !means he will do it EVERY time.  We've got ourselves another
> !Mr I-never-make-a-mistake, don't we?  :-) 
> 
> Easy Mr. Chong. Most of us on the net would not care if you were purple
> and came from Mars. You'd get the same sort of response.
> 
> As I recall in your first posting you did not indicate that you were
> a student. Consequently, most assumed that you were a PP and were
> behaving incorrectly. You got told about it. That is the nature of
> this group. Most of us are VERY concerned with safety and what you
> did was basically unsafe. Learn from the comments.
> 
> Matt Ginsberg is right and is not complaining about you. What he
> has said is that you need to get with your instructor and clear
> up some things. Learn from the comment, don't attack Matt on the
> basis of a paranoid racial slur position. Most often comments are
> NOT made on the basis of race etc. until after a response such as
> yours --- sadly not always true as we all know.
> 
> In aviation we all make mistakes. Provided we survive, the important
> thing is how we recover from the mistake AND learning from the mistake.
> Failure to do the latter, even when you don't like the manner in
> which the correction is presented, will get you killed and possibly
> lead to the death of someone else -- perhaps even a loved one.

From the beginning I had said that it was accidental, and I learned from
it (stay away from cloud).  The main point of the post was to alert other 
pilots, student or otherwise not to mess with cloud. 

But it seems some people has to have the last word, like accusing me
of delibrately going into cloud, or the general "flying unsafely" 
accusation, when I had said that it was accidental and it taught me
a great deal.  These people seems to think that they are God when it
come to flying, and that other people who commit mistakes have no right 
talking about their experience on the net, and that the same people will
never learn from their mistake. 

It seems that these people think that if I did not talk about the experience 
in a shaky, scary, voice, then I must have done it on purpose, and planned 
to write about it on the net.  I know that pilot are serious people, and
I mentioned this in another thread, but I do not expected to be made a bad 
guy, or have my instructor ability called into question, when I was
merely trying to alert others to the danger of cloud to non-IFR.

Again and again you and your supporters implied that I had not learned
from the incident, where is your proof?  Just because I did not come out
and use phrases like "scared to hell" or "gave up flying as a result",
you think that I have not learned? 

As for Mr Ginsberg, he implied that I don't have the ability to learn, 
hence my instructor should not allow me to solo.  The only thing 
I could conclude from that is that since Mr Ginsberg does not
know me personally, and the only thing he know is that I am not white, 
then he must think that I cannot learn because of the nature of my 
anchestry.  Mr Ginsberg may not be racist, and I am very sure he is not, 
but he was as just plain ol' asking for it.  

And as for you sir, we will all sleep better tonight knowing that you 
discriminate just as well against the purple man from Mars than other
non-whites.    :-) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting