From: news@fedfil.UUCP (news)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Let's cut the crap, Ted (an apology)
Date: 22 Nov 92 02:13:47 GMT
Organization: HTE

In article <1992Nov20.091807.28585@klaava.Helsinki.FI>, cust_ts@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tero Sand) writes:
^In article <1992Nov19.195827.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> kmagnacca@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
^>In article <116@fedfil.UUCP>, news@fedfil.UUCP (news) writes:
^>> In article <1992Nov17.095142.11840@klaava.Helsinki.FI>, cust_ts@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tero Sand) writes:
^>> ^Actually, I haven't seen *any* proof that the gravity was attenuated at
^>> ^some time, and also that there has ever been any flood. 
 
^>> Always glad to accomodate newcomers to t.o.  I'll repost the stuff shortly.

^>   Now you've done it...

^I apologize. :-)

^Anyway, Ted completely ignored the main argument of my post, which was
^that irrespective of whether gravity was weaker or not, *his* scenario
^is *impossible*.

A couple of things to note here:

The scenario which I've presented is not in any sense complete;  we have bits
and pieces of a picture here, enough to get a reasonable enough idea of
what the picture itself looked like in some respects, but not everything.  We
Don't have all the answers.

The various Saturn Myth scenarios are not mine;  they are the work of David
Talbott, Immanual Velikovsky, Dwardu Cardona, and a handful of others.  There
are differences between them, and none of them is complete to my knowledge.
Further, there is every evidence that we are dealing with a continually
changing scenario in the heavens starting from some time before human memory
and going until around 700 BC or so.  There appears to have been a state far
back in which Saturn or something of which Saturn is all that remains was
our sun.  The picture described on pyramid walls (and by Talbott) is a later
picture, from a time shortly after the flood, in which half of Saturn's ring
appears to have been visible at any one time (the various pictures, morning
boat/evening boat etc. showing half of the ring system.  Talbott describes
this as indicating that we were seeing reflected light (from our present sun)
from one half the ring while the other half was occulted during the various 
parts of a day, however long that was then, and that the daily turning of the
earth on its axis moved this half ring about the small star in a circle.

Many of our symbols still show this system.  The star in crescent of Islam
is commonly thought to be a star in half moon;  it isn't.  You would not
SEE a star inside the half moon.  The star would be totally hidden BY the 
moon.  The star in crescent is a Saturn sign from the same time period
Talbott describes, half the ring showing in reflected light.

The ONLY contribution which I personally have made to this whole picture,
other than trying to explain it to the deadwood of t.o, is the observation
that some scenario such as Talbott, Cardona, Velikovsky et. al. are
describing is absolutely NECESSARY to explain the sizes which living
creatures grew to in those times.  

More on this shortly.

As far as my scenario or description (the ones I have presented) being
totally sufficient to explain all details of the sizes of antique creatures,
I have no difficulty in saying that they are not.  If Wayne Throop could
somehow add something to this by coming up with a better explaination than I
or anybody has so far, I'd be thrilled.

So far, the only forces I have ever tried to bring into the discussion are 
those which I know of for certain, the gravitational attraction of the
small star and possibly of one or more earth/Mars-sized planets between
us and it on creatures living on earth.  That obviously leaves gaps:  we
don't know how massive Saturn or whatever Saturn is the remains of was at
that time, exactly how close, how close any intermediate bodies were...

Beyond that, I have not mentioned anything more speculative, the possibility
of any effects involving interaction between electro-magnetic forces and
gravity.

Albert Einstein was a friend of Velikovskys from the old Prussian Scientific
Academy, and is known to have spent the last ten years or so of his life
working on a unified field theory, a shot at explaining all natural forces
in common terms.  He is also known to have died with a copy of Worlds in
Collision open on his desk.

There is thus some possibility that a full explaination of the attenuated
gravity of antique times would require physics beyond what exists in the world
today (much less any expertise claimed by the JWM/A&A Physics Consortium).

What is NOT speculative, is that antique life forms would not work in our
world as it is presently constituted, and that some theory such as Talbotts
is absolutely necessary.


-- 
Ted Holden
HTE

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