HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ahrvid@sfbbs.edvina.se (A Engholm)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: The Filkso"ngs
Date: 16 Nov 92 06:59:06 GMT
Organization: Science Fiction BBS tel +46 (0)8 6424077


How many bookstores must New York have, before they stop being drugstores?
  (From "Blowing in the Wind", Dylan/Lundwall/Nessle)
If you ever wondered about this question, find the answer in:
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l  Swedish sf fandom songs by David Nessle   l_l__#_______ol_____lol___   l
l  Erik Andersson, Ahrvid Engholm & others   l_l________________ol_____   l
l_________________________________________________________________________l
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THE FILKSONGS is a collection of  Swedish  filksinging from its golden age
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ahrvid@sfbbs.edvina.se Author: A Engholm, Date:16-Nov-92
From: CDOMS@VAX1.UMKC.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: RE:Hugo Recommendations
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:07:11 GMT

I haven't read this (yet) but what about Bova's "Mars"?  It seem to me
it was getting rave reviews eariler
..

Others I have read and would recommend are:

The Territory by Bradley Denton (Novella) in F&FS July 92 issue. and
I did like Malzberg's Novelett In this Stone House, that was also in
Alternate Kennedy's.  (I agress with the other individual who picked
out Pat's story from Alt. Kennedy's.

While were at Hugo recommendations, for Dramatic Presentations, how
about _Inner Light_ from Star Trek:NG (first innovative ST I have seen
in a long time),   Just about any of the Batman:Animated Series (its
better written than most of the SF&F movies i've seen this year.  Heck,
its even better written that most dramatic tv I've seen this year!)
And last but not least, would could make the Hugo's interesting this 
year by nominating Ridley Scott's cut of Blade Runner.  I would be 
interesting to see a movie get two hugos.  Think about it.

Carol Doms
University of Missouri-Kansas City
cdoms@umkcvax1
cdoms@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: jeff.kling@brent.uucp (Jeff Kling) 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: PULEEEEEEZE!
Date: 22 Nov 92 02:10:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Brentwood BBS Harrison, NY  914-835-7898
Reply-To: jeff.kling@brent.uucp (Jeff Kling) 

Look, I really hate to get into this wave of conversation but what you
propose is not realistic and isn't going to happen.  We have character's
so that people (we the readers) have something to IDENTIFY with.  We
have plot  (a.k.a: a storyline) so that our interest may be sustained
for several hundred pages or more if done right.  You seem to want what
amounts to no more than a technical manual.  And by the way, if a book
has one truly great idea in it, and it's "original", then consider
yourself lucky for finding just that.  Most of what's out there doesn't
meet this standard and truly original stuff is virtually unknown after
50 years of SF, ESPECIALLY in the hard science area.  How about a list
of what you consider to have met this unrealistic, if not impossible
standard of yours?  I'd like to give a gander, if I may.

I apologise to the rest of the board for continuing this trite and
pretentious subject.

J
From: rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: plotless gutless fiction
Date: 23 Nov 92 22:14:31 GMT
Organization: UB


	While we're on the topic, or off the topic, of diamond-hard SF,
let us take for a moment to descend to lynch-mob mentality and scream for
the blood of gutless fiction.

	It starts out with the really awful stuff like Kosinski and others.
Ayn Rand noted this sort of fiction never has heroes or brains or plot. At
very worst it becomes disconnected babble that makes sense as a chain of
free association but it innocent of correct grammar, punctuation, and
even (gasp) correct spelling.  It is customary for every second word to
be coarse and unimaginative profanity, but this merely indicates the 
breeding of the white trash that produces this swill.  (e.g. Kosinski)

	But even Ivy League men, like Burroughs, are guilty of writing crap
on the grounds that their thoughts have neither beginnings nor ends, and that
therefore the public ought to buy and read ten-page sections of disconnected
fantasies of pederasty interspersed with descriptions of centipedes and 
degenerative diseases.  At least Baudelaire made it rhyme...  but that
is too much to ask.

	Nearly as bad are those plots which are so formulaic that they
do not correspond to real life, but they DO correspond quite well to the
meaningless standards of English teachers and literary critics.  This sort
of swill is packaged as low as TV sitcoms and as high as megabudget film.
And it's still crap!

	Plot is not necessary.  Character is not necessary.  But if you're 
going to leave them out there had bloody well be something there other than
the after - images of last night's TV!  Asimov never wrote character.  
Nothing but science and psych in his work, and the public lapped it up.
(I can't find any redeeming qualities in it, but I'm sure they exist.)

	Even science is not necessary.  Phillip K. Dick didn't know a damn
thing about time dilation, or the expanding universe -- but he could MISUSE
science (chorus of angels threatening eternal damnation in background) and
get away with it because he wrote good psychology and human drama, PLUS
he used the sci-fi hallmark of "as if" thinking to create alternate worlds
that are valid as sci-fi, even though his science is about as hard as a 
moist sponge.  I still shelled out forty bucks for three anthologies of
Dick, and I still think I get the better end of the deal.

	(You know your own thoughts lack discipline when you find yourself
composing inteminable tirades on news networks.  Critic, edit thyself.)
Luck
Rick
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.misc:3328 rec.arts.sf.fandom:1199 alt.music.filk:3219
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.arts.sf.fandom,alt.music.filk
Subject: Re: Words to "The Eagle Has Landed" by Fish?
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:08:13 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Nov23.070912.15344@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
> Does anyone out there by any chance have the words to "The Eagle Has
> Landed" by Leslie Fish already in ASCII form?  Someone is going to loan
> me a tape, and I can try to transcribe the song, but if someone has
> already done it I would appreciate the help.  Please respond in E-mail,
> as I'm not subscribed to alt.music.filk or rec.arts.sf.fandom.

Please note that he's asking to be sent a copy of a copyrighted work.

	--Hal
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: jeff.kling@brent.uucp (Jeff Kling) 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: SF BOOKS FOR SALE IN BULK
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:53:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Brentwood BBS Harrison, NY  914-835-7898
Reply-To: jeff.kling@brent.uucp (Jeff Kling) 

I recently did much the same thing as you are currently doing and
consider it to be a big mistake that I strongly regret having done.  My
advice to you is keep the books.  Believe me, the $250 or so that you
will get is NOTHING compared to keeping those books.  Please reconsider
this thing.

Jeff

(ps: sorry for making your life difficult here)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Visions '92: R U Going?
From: john.ewin@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (John Ewin) 
Date: 23 Nov 92 06:26:00 GMT
Reply-To: john.ewin@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (John Ewin) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Batchelor Pad PCBoard ~ Long Beach, CA ~ +1 310 494 8084

The following is for anyone going to Visions '92 in Chicago over
Thanksgiving weekend...

1>  If you're going, leave me a note with the hotel (Ramada O'Hare), and
we can meet for a soda or something!

2>  If you're a non-smoking male looking to share the cost of a room,
PLEASE leave a note at the Ramada for me, and leave me a way to contact
you.  I should have accomodations for at least 2 more folks.  (The rate
($65/night + 12% tax) would be split equally, at least 3 ways if I get
you too!)

U'NI-net Fantasy & SF Conference Host
---
 . SM 1.06 *0020 . As U C, I have a fetish for abbr's.
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Diamond-Hard sf
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:01:39 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Nov20.192012.3595@radian.uucp>  
markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
> Characters and plot are characteristics of "mundane" fiction? HAH!  
Look at
> "real" modern lit-ri-ture. Plots and character are out. Pointless  
actions,
> and people *I* surely have *no* interest in are "in".
> 

Here we go again!  

Would you like to tell us which modern writers
you are talking about (or have you just heard others claim
that this is the case, and are repeating it)?  While what you say
may be true in a small number of cases, it is certainly not the
case of all (or even the majority of) mainstream literature.
It is not true of Anne Tyler, Saul Bellow, Larry McMurtry,
Kurt Vonnegut, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, and Gore Vidal, just
to name a few off the top of my head.
--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: dant@techbook.com (Dan Tilque)
Subject: apostrophe's (was Re: you're kidding, right? (was:  Much ado ...
Organization: Pseudopolis Yard
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 10:57:15 GMT

gharlane@nextnet.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) writes:
>Dean Sanvitale said:
>
>>  when it come's to "God"
>
>           "come's"   Is either a nominative possessive referring to
>                      some quality of a substance we probably shouldn't
>                      discuss in this topic; or a word generated by 
>                      by someone who doesn't know the difference between
>                      a contraction and a single-phase verb.

I think that apostrophe is there to warn the reader that the word
is going to end with an s.

---
Dan Tilque    --     dant@techbook.com
From: mike@AUDREY.LMF.ORG (Mike Kring)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: (so-called) Diamond-Hard SF
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:53:19 GMT

I'm very new to this group, but in SF-LOVERS DIGEST Volume 17 : Issue 614

szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:
>I second this, and go further.  Characters and plot are the exemplar
>components of mundane fiction.  I do not care to see them at all, unless
>they are important to the technology or to the artistry of the story and
>almost always these days the artistry of the story is defecated upon by the
>introduction of mundane characters or plot elements, polluting the
>potentially fertile vast tracts of the SF landscape with the toxic reek of
>an inferiority complex to mundane genres.

This is a joke, right? 

szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) continues:
>For example: a poetic description of weird, original psychoactive effects
>of a genetically engineered aphrodisiac would be quite interesting.  The
>mere unaugmented desire of character X to take character Y to bed I could
>read about in other genres, or live out in real life myself for that
>matter, which is quite preferable to the fiction.  In good diamond-hard SF,
>mundane characterization or plot movement is edited out, right along with
>the bad grammar, violations of the laws of physics, cliched ideas,
>engineering illiteracy, economic illiteracy, and other crap that we should
>not have to put up with.

Uh-huh.  I guess "Doc" Smith need not apply, since all he ever did was violate
the laws of physics about once every paragraph or so.

szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) continues:
>[paragraph deleted]
>
>Diamond-hard SF should be free from techno-cliches like space stations,
>O'Neill space colonies, lunar bases, AIs, humanoid aliens, etc. unless they
>are done in a radically different, interesting way.  Sadly, most SF has
>been polluted with either cliched styles from mundane writing style or
>cliched settings from techno-religions, and as a result, most of what could
>be the best genre on the planet _reeks_.  Our task: to find the gems in the
>manure pile.

Maybe it's just me, but this entire screed seems a bit too, ummmm, "over-the
top" to be real.  Do the people in this group play these subtle put-ons often?
I mean, really, can you take anyone seriously who says:

>* Who out there like me reads SF for its original tech and prose, not for
>  the blather of "character development" and "plot" that can be found in
>  mundance forms of fiction?

This *IS* a joke, right?

Mike Kring
mike@audrey.lmf.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: gharlane@nextnet.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore)
Subject: you're kidding, right? (was:  Much ado about omnipotence)
Followup-To: alt.dev.null
Summary: gall is divided into three parts...
Organization: Evil Beings From Planet Eddore, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:08:54 GMT

Dean Sanvitale said:

> From: mirage@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dean Joseph Sanvitale)
> Subject: Much ado about omnipotence
> Sender: news@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mr News)
> Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 01:54:55 GMT
> 
> I'm compiling an anthology of speculative fiction relating to "God".
> 
> I'm seeking submissions from 3 to 10 pages in length that put a
> new twist on a very old concept. *Warning*  I do not want theology.
> I want creative speculation on the existence and/or actions, intent,
> life story, hobbies, etc. of a supreme being.  Don't let religious
> affiliation get in the way of a creative mind as these stories will
> not be dogma, but rather an exploration of the unknowable through the
> only means possible:  creative guesswork.  Get your brains a chugging
> and send your submission along with a brief comment on your attitude
> towards a monthly mini-anthology distributed over the net, having a
> new and provactive topic each month.

          "provactive" isn't in the dictionary.  I checked.

> Send submissions as e-mail to mirage@leland.stanford.edu with the 
> subject heading GOD
>
>  Dean S.
>  
>  Everyone is encouraged to submit.  Noone's better than an amateur

           "noone"    *is* in the dictionary.   It doesn't  
                      mean what he seems to think it means.

>  when it come's to "God"

           "come's"   Is either a nominative possessive referring to
                      some quality of a substance we probably shouldn't
                      discuss in this topic; or a word generated by 
                      by someone who doesn't know the difference between
                      a contraction and a single-phase verb.


And, if we were to bother making a submission to this "magazine," who 
would be editing our work?   The maker of this entry is obviously not
up to the challenge.  Note also that the submitters won't even be 
paid for their work.   
 
When one intends to found a magazine, it behooves one to master the tools
of his projected trade PRIOR to the first public attempt at same.
 
Don't call us, we'll call you.
 
(And in the meantime, go read Ellison's "PAINGOD," Eric Frank Russell's 
  "HOBBYIST," and Lester Del Rey's "FOR I AM A JEALOUS PEOPLE," and see
  if maybe they generate some ideas for your "new" genre......)
.
 
And then read  Ellison's   "DEATHBIRD" and ask yourself if you really 
have anything else to add.......
From: rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Diamond-Hard sf
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:57:27 GMT
Organization: UB

jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:

>In article <1992Nov20.192012.3595@radian.uucp>  
>markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>> Characters and plot are characteristics of "mundane" fiction? HAH!  
>Look at
>> "real" modern lit-ri-ture. Plots and character are out. Pointless  
>actions,
>> and people *I* surely have *no* interest in are "in".
>> 

>Here we go again!  

>Would you like to tell us which modern writers
>you are talking about (or have you just heard others claim
>that this is the case, and are repeating it)?  While what you say
>may be true in a small number of cases, it is certainly not the
>case of all (or even the majority of) mainstream literature.
>It is not true of Anne Tyler, Saul Bellow, Larry McMurtry,
>Kurt Vonnegut, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, and Gore Vidal, just
>to name a few off the top of my head.
>--
>Jim Mann            
>Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

	He's talking about the stream-of-consciousness wimps and limp-wrists.
No brain, no plot, no characters.  But they couldn't write 'em even if they
wanted to.  Which is why we should all kick in $10 to pay for William S.
Burroughs to be assassinated.  

	If you want to wallow in stories without plot or character, try 
Kosinski, who wised up to what a waste of space he was and committed 
suicide. Good riddance.

Luck
Rick
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Sci-Fi Channel Update
From: john.ewin@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (John Ewin) 
Date: 23 Nov 92 06:26:00 GMT
Reply-To: john.ewin@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (John Ewin) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Batchelor Pad PCBoard ~ Long Beach, CA ~ +1 310 494 8084

I found the following changes to the current SFC schedule:

M-F 8:00 EST  BUCK ROGERS runs until the 23rd, when BATTLESTAR GALACTICA
begins.

M-F 10:00 PM EST  DARKROOM begins sometime in November and runs until
the 10th. Then FUTURE COP begins and runs until the 22nd. PROBE begins
the 22nd.

---
 . SM 1.06 *0020 . Don't vote...  It only encourages them.
From: vaccaro@novavax.UUCP (N. Trafford Vaccaro)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Re^2: Pronunciation of Authors' names
Summary: Pronunc. of authors' characters' names
Date: 21 Nov 92 09:20:41 GMT
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL


While we are on the subject of pronunciation, how in the
world do you pronounce some of the names that come up in
some sf stories? Why don't they provide some kind of
dictionary at the end (like Tolkien)? It's like you
read some text and get to the persons name and come to
a halt (Zub-or-DEE? ZUB-or-dee?,etc) and then continue.
From: KitchenRN@SSD0.LAAFB.AF.MIL
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Computers in films/TV -THE LIST-
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:05:00 GMT

horne@physics.su.oz.au (Geoff Horne) wrote:
> MCP            - Tron

MCP was a program (Master Control Program), not a computer.
From: pihlab@hhcs.gov.au
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: James White - Lifeform Codes
Date: 20 Nov 92 11:02:29 +1100
Organization: Aust. Dept. Health, Housing and Community Services


Hi,

Firstly, let me say that I'm not getting a feed from this news group
so any replies should come directly to my EMail address below.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I've been reading a couple of books by James White and he refers to various
intelligent races with a 4 character life-form classification system
throughout the books.

Does anyone have a break down on this classification, how it works etc?

OR

can you point me to one or more of Mr White's books that explain the code in
more detail.

Thankyou.

-- 

Bruce...        pihlab@hhcs.gov.au

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: "colin mcgregor" <colin.mcgregor@canrem.com>
Subject: fen sources
Reply-To: "colin mcgregor" <colin.mcgregor@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 20 Nov 92 09:14:55 EST

I love how some conferences carry listings of where find the good stuff,
the items that you will not normally run across. This is my first
attempt at a list like that, where to find the odd items fen want. I
have had good to excellent dealings with all of the firms listed below,
BUT be warned I have not dealt with some for several years. If you know
why any of these firms should not be listed, or know of a firm that
MUST be listed in a list like this, let me know.

Books - New/Used:

   Bakka, 282 Queen Street West, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2A1 (416)
   596-8161

Canada's largest/oldest SF bookstore. They do have a mail order
service.

Buttons - Parts/Equipment:

   Badge A Minit, 348 North 30th Road, Box 800, LaSalle, IL, 61301,
   U.S.A. (800) 223-4103, (815) 224-2090

They seem to be the largest button maker. They only support 2.25" buttons.
Machines start at about $30 and go up. They also sell button parts, paper
cutters, and other button making accessories.

   Mr. Button Products Inc., 5739 W. 85th St., P.O. Box 68355, Indianapolis,
   IN, 46268-0355, U.S.A., (317) 872-7000

Support for over 10 different button sizes. Their machines cost more than
B-a-M, but parts are less than B-a-M. Unlike B-a-M, Mr. Button parts do NOT
have advertising on them! The Mr. Button 2 3/8" parts will fit Badge-A-
Minit machines.

Buttons, pre-made:

   Nancy Lebovitz, 400 Wollaston Ave., C6, Newark, DE, 19711, U.S.A.

Nancy Lebovitz has put together the largest collection of cute/clever/
etc. button saying that I've seen. It's a delight just to sit and read
her catalog. She does custom work.

Convention listings:

   The SF Con Register, Box 3343, Fairfax, VA, 22038, U.S.A. (703) 273-3297

Assembled by Erwin S. ("Filthy Piere") Strauss this is THE convention
listing, EVERYTHING gets listed. Indexed by guest, place, name and date.
Cost: $10 (U.S.)/yr. (4 issues) in N. America, $12/yr. overseas. $2+
S.A.S.E. for a sample issue.

Toys:

   Isher Artifacts, 530 W. Walnut Street, Kalamazoo, MI, 49007, U.S.A.

"Expensive but worth it" could be this firms motto. Isher makes a range
of ray guns, sonic screwdrivers, Dr. Who scarves and other SF toys. Most
are beautify machined out of acrylic and/or aluminum. They offer ray guns
that contain a low power laser. They do custom work. Catalog $1.00 (U.S.).
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #5634  colin.mcgregor@canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc