HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: Libertarians and Greens
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:53:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan15.220405.24740@athena.mit.edu> trebor@athena.mit.edu (Robert B Beattie) writes:
}
}There is some difficulty with the idea that you can simply 'sue' someone who is
}polluting your air. First of all, courts have to fashion standards on what is
}'polluted' and what is merely an inconvenience, secondly there are enormous 
}transaction costs to taking others to court, thirdly, there is, in the real world,
}a big difference in the resources one can expend on such a suit. The local
}wealthy-guys golf course is going to have more success suing a neighboring
}factory for pollution than will an unemployed single father. 

One libertarian slogan is: Utopia isn't an option.  We must determine what
the best of all possible policy setups is, then implement it.  There are
transaction costs to government ownership and management schemes, too -
greater ones than for the tresspass paradigm.

The rich will have even more success capturing regulatory agencies than
the poor, as Nobel economists of the public choice school have taught us.
What we must determine is what system will be best, and that one seems to
be the libertarian one.

}Green philosophy seems to be pretty explicit about the need to build community
}and a set of shared values. I'm not sure that libertarianism is.

Most likely, what you're missing is moralism.  Libertarianism is concerned
with crime: the initiation of force and fraud, not vice.  That's the province
of ethics, not politics.

Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire
Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens,ba.transportation,sci.environment
From: cls@truffula.sj.ca.us (Cameron L. Spitzer)
Subject: Fixing the perception problem, was Re: IDIOTS
Organization: Save the Humans!
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 06:42:10 GMT
Summary:  let's do what we're good at
Keywords: community outreach


In article <1jnm4cINNheo@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> aphrael@cats.ucsc.edu
 (Robert D West) writes:
>...() writes:
>>YOUR ALL A BUNCH OF TREELUVERS
>	There are a lot of people who view the Green Party just this
>	way. The common perception, at first, among people whom I talk
>	to about the party is that we are all a bunch of environmental
>	extremists ...

We should realize there are messages reaching the public suggesting
such things.  Public perceptions don't spring from noplace; they are
built intentionally.

>	Any ideas?

We don't have meaningful access to mass media, but we *can* get out in
front of people one at a time and explain what we are up to.  I found
when I was collecting registrations that a majority of the people
who I could get to read the beginning of the little blurb on the
clipboard would smile and nod and keep reading.  Green Values are
an exciting idea to anybody with any idealism left, any hope for
the future.  We have a message people want to hear, enjoy hearing.
We should use that.

Let's spend some more time tabling.  There is always a ballot
initiative or a petition that's worth getting out and collecting
signatures for.  We have the beginnings of a None Of The Above
initiative here in California.  I predict it will be easier to get
signatures for than ballot status was.  Let's get out there where people
can see us doing something easy to understand and obviously
constructive, something that serves Key Values *other than ecological
wisdom.*

--
Cameron, across the street from where the cherry orchard was
three years ago.
From: pauld@cs.washington.edu (Paul Barton-Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens
Subject: Re: BOTTLE BILL
Date: 21 Jan 93 11:46:58 GMT
Organization: Precipitating Pendulums Postal Party Poopers

In article <1678600145@igc.apc.org> Dale McMillen <dmcmillen@igc.apc.org> writes:
>
>>>+ We should legislate deposits on glass, metal and plastic 
>>>beverage containers. 
>>
>>The verdict is out on the effectiveness of this, although intuitively,
>>it seems like a great idea.
> 
>Paul,
> 
>You made this comment about this plank in the  Ca. Green Party Plotform.
>Would you mind explaining?

The studies I have heard of (see Garbage for a good overview) tend to
suggest that the return rate increase per unit cost of the program is
lower for bottle deposits than for, say, kerbside recycling.

If these studies are inaccurate, I'd be interested in hearing more.
If not, it doesn't mean its not worth doing, just that one should
recognize the implicit costs thereof.

-- 
hybrid rather than pure; compromising rather than clean;    | Militant Agnostic
distorted rather than straightforward; ambiguous rather than| I Don't Know
articulated; both-and rather than either-or; the difficult  |   and You Don't
unity of inclusion rather than the easy unity of exclusion. |   Know Either
Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens
From: bjd@boi.hp.com (Bob Davidson)
Subject: Re: LET'S DISCUSS NUCLEAR ENERGY! -- Elsewhere!!!
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:14:29 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

: Wrong, me too.  Just watching, mostly.

There must be quite a few just watching.  Never has so much
bandwidth owed so much to so few.
 
: I don't want a job.
 
That's good.  There aren't any!  All the hardware jobs are going away;
to be replaced by software.  All the software jobs are going to India.

Used to be some good ones in the nuclear industry, but, then the 
Greens, et. al. ....


--
bjd@hpdmlau.boi.hp.com
Phone: (208) 323-2220
Telnet: 323-2220

Disk Memory Division
Boise, Idaho
From: spencer@cats.ucsc.edu (Michael Spencer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens
Subject: Re: THE MONEY SUPPLY AND CURRENCIES
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:43:12 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:

>In article <1jkaaoINNfep@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> spencer@cats.ucsc.edu (Michael Spencer) writes:
>}
>}As originally stated: Hyper-inflation is caused by a failure/lack of
>}the central banking system. The extent of the region over which the
>}currency is negotiated is not relevant.

>Mr. Spencer, I've rebutted your false claims about central banking before,
>and you seem to have ignored them.  I've read the world history of free
>banking, and there has never been a hyperinflation in any area with it
>that I know of.  Is your claim merely theoretical, or have I missed a
>case?

Please note that what I said was .."failure/lack of the central banking 
system." which covers two (2) cases not one. Admittedly most hyper-
inflations result from failure not lack but two notable ones that
occcurred in what you refer to as a free banking system were:
	- American continentals at end of Revolution
	- Confederate money at end of Civil War
The Chinese also had at least one epsiode, but Im afraid the 
specific reference escapes me.


===========================================================================
Michael Spencer            |      2640 Borregas
spencer@cats.ucsc.edu      |      Aptos, CA   95003
===========================================================================

-- 

===========================================================================
Michael Spencer            |      2640 Borregas
spencer@cats.ucsc.edu      |      Aptos, CA   95003
===========================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens
From: mistress@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Erinn Van Note)
Subject: Re: PLEASE SIGN IN!
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:59:17 GMT
From: Brian Chambers <bchambers@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:49 PST
Subject: Gays In the Military Phone Calls N
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1678600171:000:848
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!bchambers    Jan 27 21:49:00 1993


From: Brian Chambers <bchambers>
Subject: Gays In the Military Phone Calls N

/* Written  8:05 pm  Jan 27, 1993 by mamurphy@igc.apc.org in igc:green.general */
/* ---------- "Gays In the Military Phone Calls N" ---------- */
Folks, its action time!

The White House is swamped with calls about the ban on gays and
lesbians in the military.  Rumor has it that calls are running
about 100 to 1 AGAINST LIFTING THE BAN.

Please take a minute and call President Clinton to tell him you
support his decision to lift the ban.

The comment line is only open from 9to5 eastern time.  The number
is 202-456-1111

The Pentagon is accepting calls today (only?) regarding public
opinion re: gays in the Military.  The number to call is
(703)697-5737...

For those who live in Northern California, Dan Hamburg has set up
a number to call, it is 1-800-303-2515.
From: Dale McMillen <dmcmillen@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens
Date: 23 Jan 93 22:06 PST
Subject: Re: Gas Tax?
Nf-ID: #R:4l!sh3k@santafe.edu:-1402134433:cdp:1678600163:000:255
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmcmillen    Jan 23 22:06:00 1993


Chris and whoever else opposes a gas tax because of its regressiveness,
I am wondering...

Are there folks that you know of who are currently organizing against
a gax tax for the reasons you state, or are your concerns of a more
theoretical nature?

Dale

Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
From: ryanr@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Richard Ryan)
Subject: Re: SLICK TIMES
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:02:23 GMT
	<RYANR.93Jan26000759@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
	<mancini-260193194338@usx221.fysik.uu.se>
	<RYANR.93Jan27184849@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Organization: College of Natural Sciences, Colorado State University
Followup-To: alt.politics.elections

>>>>> Regarding Re: SLICK TIMES; ryanr@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Richard Ryan) adds:

I've got to make a serious retraction with apologies.  I made the mistake
of trying to define what wasn't funny.  That's a pretty stupid, closed
minded, intolerant thing to do that makes the arrogant presumption of
telling people how to think, what to appreciate and so on.  Yes, I've read
Zippy and some of it was witty, but I just don't enjoy it as much as some
people and shouldn't say anything that might be taken as an insult to
people who do.  I guess I should take my lumps for reacting in a way that
mirrors the kind of behaviour that, ironically enough, I was reacting to.

Again many apologies,
Richard.

V V V V ------------  My stupid follow-up ----------------- V V V V

Richard> Zippy.  How outrageous.  I remember a few weeks reading how the
Richard> cartoonist was insulting readers who didn't appreciate his deep
Richard> insightful dark sarcasm and the intensity of his art.  I suppose
Richard> I can handle getting ranked about my sense of humor by anyone who
Richard> thinks there's anything all that witty and wonderful about Zippy.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
From: Clinton-HQ@Campaign92.Org (Clinton/Gore '92)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: CLINTON: Mr. President, how difficult was the Zoe Baird decision?
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:43:57 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: life.ai.mit.edu




                            THE WHITE HOUSE

                     Office of the Press Secretary

                            January 22, 1993

                       REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
                        DURING PHOTO OPPORTUNITY
                           The Cabinet Room

 11:15 A.M. EST


  Q    Mr. President, how difficult was the Zoe Baird decision?  How
 agonizing was it for you?

  THE PRESIDENT:  I was -- I'm sad about it.  But it wasn't
 agonizing.  I'm just very -- I'm sad about it, and I take full
 responsibility, as I said in my statement, for the way the evaluation
 was done.  I still have a very high regard for her.  She is an
 extraordinary person.  And I feel very badly about it, but I'm
 responsible for it, and I'm going to start this afternoon looking for
 an attorney general.  And I have the process set up, and we're going
 to begin as soon as the lunch hour is over, working on the future.
 And that's what I intend to focus on.

 Q    Will it be a woman?

 THE PRESIDENT:  I have nothing else to say.  I'm going to start this
 afternoon.  Thanks.

                                  END                   11:16 A.M. EST
From: harelb@igc.apc.org (Harel Barzilai)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: READ CLINTON'S LIPS !
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:35:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1728300012:cdp:1728300013:000:838
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!harelb    Jan 21 14:35:00 1993


/* Written 11:27 am  Jan 21, 1993 by bbeck in igc:justice.econ */
From "Putting People First: How We Can All Change America,"
by Bill Clinton and Al Gore (Times Books, 1992):

"MIDDLE-CLASS TAX FAIRNESS: We will lower the tax burden on
middle-class Americans by asking the very wealthy to pay their
fair share. Middle-class taxpayers will have a choice between
a children's tax credit or a significant reduction in their
income tax rate. Virtually every industrialized nation
recognizes the importance of strong families in its tax code; we
should, too."

This appears on Page 15 in a chapter titled "Putting people
First: A Strategy for Change" under the heading: "Rewarding Work
and Families." Nearly identical language appears on
page 50 in the Chapter "Children" under the heading: 
"Support Pro-Family and Pro-Children Policies."
From: bond@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Robert S. Bond)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: An open letter to Zoe Baird
Summary: Decline the Attorney General nomination
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:32:23 GMT
Followup-To: bond@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
Distribution: alt.politics.correct, alt.politics.elections, bit.listserv.politics, soc.politics, talk.politics.misc
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Dear Mrs. Baird:


	I am currently a college student and the 1992 election was the first
such election which I was eligible to take part in.  I have been following 
the nomination proceedings closely and have found that most of President
Clinton's choices are of good quality and will serve to enhance his cabinet.

        He selected you to be Attorney General, as I'm sure, due to your
excellent credentials.  However, I must side with the newspaper critics and
say that one of the qualifications for the post of Attorney General is that
the candidate must be above reproach.  As such, I feel that due to the issue of
your employment of illegal immigrants that the most magnanimous course of
action for you to follow would be to decline President Clinton's nomination.
To pursue this position would tarnish the President's image and also make
your own motives appear to be less than noble.



					Sincerely,


					Robert Bond
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Bond - University of Pennsylvania
Department of Chemical Engineering
Reply to: bond@eniac.seas.upenn.edu		
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton
From: kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian)
Subject: Re: CLINTON: The Council on Competitiveness
Organization: Pitzer College
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:06:58 GMT

In article <1k6oaqINNifm@life.ai.mit.edu> Clinton-HQ@Campaign92.Org (Clinton/Gore '92) writes:
>                   MEMORANDUM FOR THE ACTING DIRECTOR
>                    OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET
>
> The Council on Competitiveness, established March 31, 1989,
> terminated on January 20, 1993.

Dear Ms./Mr. Businessperson

	For further assistance in getting your special interest attended to, 
please see the Commerce Secretary, Mr. Ron Brown.  We hope the removing of 
this redundancy will assist you in finding your way around Willieworld.

Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:25067 talk.politics.misc:69164
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: WELLLLL! IT'S DAY ONE. WHERE'S THE PLAN???
Date: 22 Jan 1993 06:45:57 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: state.eng.umd.edu
Originator: clin@state.eng.umd.edu


In article <1993Jan21.210132.5135@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>, sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes:
>
>If the people get angry enough, perhaps Clinton will have his own 'thousand
>points of light"..
>
>Of course, those 'points of light' will be the torches carried by the angry
>mob coming after him.
>

    Frankly, people get upset with almost every president.   It may just
be more noted now because of things like immediate posting, and channels
like CNN and C-SPAN that provide quick coverage, and viewer call-in,
where people can vent theor feelings on the air.   Of course, you would
expect that most of these calls will be more extreme, as some who doesn't
care one way or the other won't call in.

    Perhaps Clinton, like others, is discovering that almost any action
he takes is bound to upset someone or the other.   Positions which sounded
like good ideas initially had problems that were not forseen.   I'd say
wait a year, see what happens, and then have something substantive to say
rather than speculation how about how good or how bad he will be.

--
Charles Lin
clin@eng.umd.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc,tx.politics,misc.legal
From: rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally)
Subject: Re: The Media (was Re: Who's weakening the constitution?)
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:46:57 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.144201.13504@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>
>Jim, if you didn't exist, I think someone woul dhave to INVENT you.

	bunker.exe?


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Mullally (rocky@sugar.neosoft.com) PH:713-681-2495
"He used to be my boss, and now he's a puppet dancer"- Bowie (David)

Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:25232 alt.politics.clinton:21440
From: Clinton-HQ@Campaign92.Org (Clinton/Gore '92)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: CLINTON: FIRST LADY HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON SCHEDULE
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:57:55 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: life.ai.mit.edu


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
DATE: MONDAY, JANUARY 25, 1993
 
FIRST LADY HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON SCHEDULE FOR TUESDAY, JANUARY 26, 1993.

WASHINGTON, DC -- FIRST LADY HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON WILL VISIT "NEW YORK
CARES" TUTORING SESSION AND RECEIVE LEWIS HINE AWARD IN NEW YORK CITY ON
TUESDAY, JANUARY 26.

Mrs. Clinton will join "NEW YORK CARES" volunteers at a tutoring session
with several 4th, 5th and 6th graders.  "NEW YORK CARES," founded in 1987,
is a volunteer organization designed to place young working New Yorkers in
volunteer projects in which they work with people in need.  Working in
teams, "NEW YORK CARES" volunteers provide direct assistance to poor
children, homeless families, people with AIDS and the elderly.

DATE:               TUESDAY, JANUARY 26, 1993
PRESS CALL TIME:    9:30AM
LOCATION:           Alexander Humboldt School
                    PS 115
                    586 W. 177TH STREET
                    NEW YORK, NY

     Press Note:    Mrs. Clinton will be joined at the tutoring session by
     Maria Alvarez.  Ms. Alvarez, a "New York Cares" volunteer will receive
     a Lewis Hine Award that evening.


Mrs. Clinton will receive a special Lewis Hine Award for Distinguished
Service to children and youth.  The award will be presented by the National
Child Labor Committee (NCLC).  Ten individuals from communities across the
country will also be honored with a Lewis Hine award.

DATE:               TUESDAY, JANUARY 26, 1993
PRESS CALL TIME:    5:30PM
LOCATION:           THE CHEMICAL BANK BUILDING
PRESS ENTRANCE:     270 PARK AVENUE
                    BETWEEN 48TH AND PARK

     PRESS NOTE:  Press will be escorted to the 49th floor for the award
     ceremony. Press overflow space will be provided on the 2nd floor in
     the employee cafeteria.  Mult and video DA will be available in this
     area.
                                    ###
From: gperkins@igc.apc.org (Gordon O. Perkins)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: WELLLLL! IT'S DAY ONE. WHERE'S THE
Date: 22 Jan 93 01:32:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1jkblvINNg2q@usenet.ins.cwru.edu:-653864453:cdp:1728300014:000:115
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!gperkins    Jan 21 17:32:00 1993


The choice of Clinton was easy, when you consider the other candidates were
Bush and Perot. Better luck next time!
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:25245 alt.politics.clinton:21461
From: mikepb@lupus.dell.com (Michael P. Brininstool)
Subject: Re: The Media (was Re: Who's weakening the constitution?)
Reply-To: mikepb@lupus.dell.com
Organization: Dell UNIX Support
Distribution: usa,tx
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:49:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.140241.2863@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> In <J45ls*gC1@caleb.UUCP> jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett) writes:
> 
> >In article <1993Jan21.214706.17023@montagar.com>, David L. Cathey writes:
> 
> >Yes, I'm sure.  You see, I have something that is rare on the Net.  It is
> >called a brain.  I use it often, most people don't.  I use multiple sources
> >of information.  I know the biases of those sources.  I know who I trust.
> >If you listen carefully to what people say, you can learn more than they
> >intend to tell you.  (e.g. Clinton's admission that he planned middle class
> >tax increases in the 2nd? debate.)  None of these things require Sainthood.
> >In fact, none of them require great intellect.  All of these abilities come
> >from God.  They have been given to all of us.  However, the further one is
> >from God, the more difficulty he will have using them.  If I do make a
> >mistake, He will correct me - NOT because I am some sort of Saint, but because
> >I am His.
> > 
> 
> Ah, I see.  And here we missed it all this time.  Jim, and only Jim,
> is correct and capable of seeing what's going on, and the rest of us
> are only pitiful dupes.  Yes, it is the Divine Right of JIM. 

Oh, crap! Jim turns out to be a religious fanatic.  That relegates
everything I have ever read of his to trash.

------------------------------+----------------------------------------------|
| #include "std/disclaimer.h" | MICHAEL P. BRININSTOOL mikepb@lupus.dell.com |
|-----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
| If Liberals interpreted The 1ST Amendment, the way they do  the 2nd,  only |
| print media would be protected! - RID US OF ASSAULT MEDIA LIKE TVs & RADIO |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:25233 alt.politics.clinton:21441