HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "paul shannon" <paul.shannon@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: science fiction book
Date: 25 Jul 92 03:07:18 EST
Reply-To: "paul shannon" <paul.shannon@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information


BT>In article <142e8pINNlsp#network.ucsd.edu> earharta@sdsc.edu writes:
>  Bad Points - 1) I HATE that stupid 'check this and send it in by
>                  such-and-such a date or get some books.'  I got a
>                  lot of books from them because I was soooooo lazy
>                  about sending in that card (like the music clubs do).

BT>You have, of course, discovered how book clubs work and how they make
BT>their money.  They are counting on you being lazy.  It isn't stupid,
BT>it's extremely clever.  It's why book clubs are such a big part
BT>of the book industry.

BT>Of course, it also stops many people, who know they are lazy, from
BT>joining.  But the balance obviously works in the club's favour, as they
BT>do well.

This is not really the case.  In today's (7/24) Wall Street Journal
there is an article about book clubs and it states that many book clubs
are beginning to move away from the "negative-option" method of
selling.  In the 80's the number of bookstores exploded and this has
eaten into the book club's clientele.  This has really hurt the
book clubs and they are not really doing to well.  In fact many are
doing pretty poorly and are being forced to drastically rework their
operations.

If you are in the publishing industry I reccommend hunting up the
article, it is pretty interesting.

Paul Shannon

Paul Shannon -- paul.shannon@execnet.com
---
  DeLuxe/386 1.25 #9407  
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tedk@jpl.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ted Ko)
Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 20:32:48 GMT

In article <Brr3tz.CL9@cs.psu.edu>, schwartz@roke.cs.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz) writes:
|> tedk@jpl.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ted Ko) writes:
|>    It's difficult to describe why you enjoy a book when if you try to
|>    dissect it, it becomes that much less enjoyable.
|> 
|> In other words, paying attention to what you just read makes it seem
|> unpleasant?  Hey, you do agree with Nick after all!
|> 
|>    The Belgariad has gotta have something going for it or it wouldn't
|>    be so incredibly popular...
|> 
|> Sure, it's totally shallow and saccharine.  People love stuff like that.

Get some sort of clue, man.  There's a huge difference between dissecting a
book and paying attention.  You need to pay attention to get into a book
and enjoy it, dissecting for literary points is the kind of crap you'd do
in English class.

I love how you set yourself apart from the rest of the sf fans with the word
"people".  Seems sorta egotistical to casually call all those thousands
"shallow and saccharine".

<--The-Dark-Elf-<<<
From: dstein@rhea.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: "Buffalo" is SF? /Hugo nominated/ SF?!
Reply-To: dstein@rhea.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Organization: UCLA, Mathematics Department
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 02:34:03 GMT

In article <l7asp9INNc1@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, kcr@rushforth.Eng.Sun.COM
(Kevin Rushforth) writes:
 
|> Different strokes, I guess.  I felt that "Buffalo" was the worst of the
|> seven nominated stories with "Dog's Life" being next worst (although it
|> was, at least, enjoyable).  I did like "One Perfect Morning, With
|> Jackals", although I felt that Connie Willis's "In the Late Cretaceous"
|> was slightly better.

   Funny.  If you liked "Press Ann" then our ESF votes (*vote* people!)
   might have been the exact reverse of each other.  I found the above
   and "In the Late Cretaceous" very forgattable, though Connie's story
   was at least amusing for a while.

   What puzzles me is why would you prefer "In the Late Cretaceous" to
   "Dog's Life"; neither was very demanding, but "Dog's Life" at least
   had a character I cared for, and sustained a momentum all the way
   to the end.

   And which story was your favorite? 

 - David

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
From: IRH@utrc.utc.COM
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: The Ship Who Searched by Anne McCaffrey
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:32:00 GMT

From:    Irene R. Harrison ( IRH )               Postmark: 21-Jul-1992 03:31pm
Dept:    Computer Applications                   Tel No:   8-446-7415

TO:  Remote Internet User                 ( _in%dani@netcom.com )
TO:  Remote Internet User                 ( _in%sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu )


Subject: The Ship Who Searched by Anne McCaffrey

Dani Zweig sent a review of *Partnership* by Anne McCaffrey and Mercedes
Lackey to SF-lovers-written.  Since *Partnership* is by Anne McCaffrey and
Margaret Ball, and trying to figure out his spoilers, I assume that the
review is for *The Ship Who Searched* by Anne McCaffrey and Mercedes
Lackey. I'm just being picky because the reviewer was. I do not usually
carry my flame thrower when responding to a review, but here are the
flames.

Most of any review is the readers 'feelings' about a book.  Well mine were
pretty good.  I read the book through and didn't find any of the science
intruding upon the story.  I thought that this was the best book from
McCaffrey's pen for a long time, or perhaps I should just read more of
Mercedes Lackey's writing.

I know that McCaffrey's grasp of most science is faulty, but I didn't
notice a description of any planet with a 90/10 year ratio of
Earth-normal/-50 degrees weather.  My astronomy must be faulty because I
don't see why at one place on a planet, such a ratio wouldn't be possible.
I believe that the seasons on earth are caused by the angle that the axis
of rotation has to the plane of the earth's obit, NOT by the orbit traveled
in a year.  There is an eccentricity in earth's axis of rotation.  This has
been thought to relate to the ice ages and certain other earth weather
patterns.  OK my science may also be rusty (and faulty) but at any one
place on earth (OK say England) you can have a number of 'normal' years and
then the 'year that summer never came' (I read somewhere that one year it
snowed all summer in England).

I don't have any problems with an android body that simply sends the
sensation of touch to parts of the brain.  The main character would be
happy with that.  She remembers what touching and holding were like.

I.R.Harrison
From: write@eff.org (Glen Cox)
Subject: Re: Iain Banks "State of the Art": where can I find it?
Originator: write@eff.org
Keywords: Iain Banks novella
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:35:51 GMT

>In article <1992Jul21.135942.27176@mic.ucla.edu>, bruce@bnkl01.astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Macintosh) writes:
>|> During one of the earlier iterations of the cyclically regenerating
>|> Iain Banks discussion, I noticed a couple of references to a Culture
>|> short story or novella called "State of The Art." Where did it appear?
>|> Is there any way at all that I, living here in the US, could possibly
>|> find a copy?

Since there seems to be some interest here, I thought I would make this
generally known:

THE STATE OF THE ART (the novella) is still in print in its original 
hardback edition from the publisher, Mark V. Ziesing Books.  The price
is $16.00 and you can contact them at P.O. Box 76, Shingletown, CA,
96088, phone and fax (916) 474-1580.

glen



-- 
/== Glen E. Cox ==============================================================\
|  write@eff.org  | "The great enemy of clear language is insincerity."       |
|  GEnie: G.COX3  |                                --George Orwell            |
| DELPHI: MRWRITE |                                                           |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: K42@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Monika Best)
Subject: RE: Daniel Keyes
Organization: University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 17:56:45 CET

In article <9207311519.AA29378@rutgers.edu>
FARMERMJ@VAX1.BHAM.AC.UK writes:

>A few years ago, there was an article in New Scientist about multiple
>personalities, and what they showed about the workings of the mind.  This was
>all very well, but the author quoted, to demonstrate her theory, the case
>reported in _The_minds_of_Billy_Milligan_ by Daniel Keyes.  I'd never heard of
>the book, but the author's name made me do a double-take.  The author of the
>article apparently thought that it was the story of a real person, rather
>than a novel!  So if you think that Keye's characters sound real, there are
>people out there who actually think they *are* real. (I only got that issue of
>New Scientist, so I never found whether any correspondent broke the bad news to
>the author)
>

_The Minds of Billy Milligan_ is indeed based on a real case, that is,
Daniel Keyes interviewed this man (Billy Milligan) and had long talks
with him and then wrote down his story. It's a fascinating and
frightening book that impressed me quite a lot. He has also written a
_novel_ about a woman with multiple personalites; this book is called
_The Fifth Sally_ (or something very similar).

-- Moni
From: urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Dune group or mailing list
Date: 26 Jul 1992 22:13:11 +0200
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG
NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1

In rec.arts.sf.written, article <1992Jul23.213058.2481@cs.unca.edu>,
  mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
< kipper@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Kip Ingram) writes:
< 
< : alt.dune 
< 
< : Comments?
< 
< Yes! Go for it!
< 
OK, but please consider a better name. alt.fan.frank-herbert or alt.fan.dune
would be preferable. alt.* has too many (immediate) subgroups already.

-- 
"I like your game but we have to change the rules."
-- 
Matthias Urlichs  --  urlichs@smurf.sub.org -- urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de   /(o\
Humboldtstrasse 7 -- 7500 Karlsruhe 1 -- Germany  --  +49-721-9612521     \o)/
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (WHY??)
Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:51:50 GMT

(LAU WAI KUEN) writes:
>(Ted Ko) writes:
>>(LAU WAI KUEN) writes:
>>|> BANKERR@BIGVAX.ALFRED.EDU writes:

>>Let's put an IMO on that there statement, eh?  Eddings original Belgariad
>>(IMHO) is one of the all time classics of fantasy.  True that everything since
>>then has been much weaker, but that's due in a large part to his style repetition which can get old after a series or two.

I don't think that The B..d can be classed as an all time classic, ...not when
so many of the elements were lifted from other fantasies.  

Now it's been years since I read it, (I regard it as adolescent fantasy; maybe
good as a starter), but, eg. the whole idea of small-boy-in-farm-reared-by-
slightly-unusual-guardian-having-major-destiny-etc. was lifted from Taran
Wanderer's tales.

There were many more, but I've forgotten them all.

IMO D. Eddings is a popular writer, but not a very good one.

On the other hand, if he's making gobs of dough doing it, then fair play 
to him!



Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: flee@cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee)
Subject: Re: List of voters in ESF award so far
	<1992Jul30.101436.14199@clarinet.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:06:50 GMT

Brad Templeton:
> And, while I was hoping we would see lots of full ballots because
> our voters here have access to all the stories, I realize that it
> is hard and confusing to have to rank 7 different stories.

Here's a different reason for not voting.  Trying to rank, say,
"Buffalo" v. "In the Late Cretaceous" is rather like trying to rank an
apple v. an orange.  Which fruit do you prefer?  Which fruit is closer
to the epitome of fruitiness?  Which fruit would you give an award to?

Liking both apples and oranges, I find this decision difficult to make.
--
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Merlin Backwards (was Re: My view of the ESF stories ..)
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:01:52 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

There is a good treatment of living backwards in Arkady and Boris
Strugatsky's _Monday Begins on Saturday_.  My reaction to the Resnick
story was that he'd really just retold a chapter of this novel as a
short story, and not brought anything new to it.  The story in MBoS
doesn't concern Merlin (he's in the book, but in another capacity) but
the flavor is much the same.  The question of how a time reversed person
can carry on a conversation is dealt with neatly, if arbitrarily.

MBoS is worth recommending, by the by; sharp satire on a number of
aspects of Russian society, and good stories as well.  There is a stray
story which belongs to the same thread as this book, "Tale of the
Troika", in _Roadside Picnic_ as well.

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Keyes' "Flowers for Algernon"
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:54:37 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <771@tdat.teradata.COM>, by swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen):
> Yes, I believe the condensed form is called "Charli".
> And, yes, the full length novel is better.

I have to disagree.  The novella (or short story or whatever) was
named "Flowers for Algernon" as well.  I found it leaner, better and
more to the point.  Note also that it was written before the novel,
not after.
-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Jack the Bodiless -- Spoilers
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 00:36:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

cbrunson@vermont.East.Sun.COM:
>I think Fury may be the reincarnation of Felice 

I would have a problem with this, in that it would make bad
story-telling.  The motivation is too improbable.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   'T is with our judgements as our watches, none
   Go alike, yet each believes his own
		--Alexander Pope
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Jack Vance: Madouc
Date: 26 Jul 92 00:44:58 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Let me be the far-from-first to note that "Madouc" is an excellent
work of fantasy.  In style, it is very similar to much of Vance's
better science fiction:  Almost all of the characters are urbane
and well-spoken, many implausibly so, but the pleasure which good
dialogue brings far outweighs the loss in characterization.  (The
characters are distinguished by what they have to say, rather than
by how they say it.)  

The book stands alone, so not having read the other Lyonesse
books is not a problem.  

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   If you're going to write, don't pretend to write down.  It's going to be the
   best you can do, and it's the fact that it's the best you can do that kills
   you! -- Dorothy Parker
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller)
Subject: Beyond the Fall of Night
Organization: Morning Star Technologies
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:29:46 GMT



I just finished reading _Beyond the Fall of Night_  and would like to hear
the net.consensus on this one.  The book is by Arthur C. Clarke and Gregory
Berenford (sp?) , but is based on and earlier Clarke work called 
_Against the Fall of Night_.

In order to keep this spoiler-free,  I will only say that I found the 
First part of BtFoN to be more-or-less straightforward "hard" sf.  The 
Second part, however, was really off the deep end.  It reminded me or 
_Childhood's End_ and some other Clarke work. 

Does anyone know of authors other than Clarke who do this kind of writing?


Chris Miller
Chris@MorningStar.Com
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: FLOWERS FOR ALGERNON
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:54:12 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: cumming@PICA.ARMY.MIL ("Robert C. Cumming", PEO)

In article <9207291545.aa01713@COR4.PICA.ARMY.MIL>, cumming@PICA ("Robert C. Cumming", PEO) writes:
>Now my point is this: AWAKENINGS was based upon a real series of
>events which occurred, I believe, in the 1950's.  Is it possible that
>the idea for FFA/CHARLIE came from reading an account of the original
>experiment and [...]

You're off by two decades, so the answer is no.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: asm@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Amin Meghani)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: That Perfect Book...
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:09:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.


In article <1992Jul16.131235.14652@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> louzon@aplcen (Louzon ronald g) writes:
>In article <142e8pINNlsp@network.ucsd.edu> earharta@sdsc.edu writes:
>>In article AA01527@OPAL.SYSTEMSX.CS.YALE.EDU, Pai-Satish@CS.YALE.EDU (A. Satish Pai) writes:
>>>
>>                  about sending in that card (like the music clubs do).
>>               2) Their book bindings are *LOUSY* *LOUSY* *LOUSY*.  If
>>                  you want to get that last a long time *DO NOT* buy
>>                  their books.  The book content is the same but they
>>                  bind their own books.  I have quite a few books from
>>                  them that have cracked/broken bindings.  I am usually
>>                  very careful about my books and very few of my 
>>                  paperbacks look like they have been read! (yeah, yeah,
>>                  I'm seeing a therapist about this =:) ).
>>
>     I have the same problem!!!  It drives my wife crazy but I can't 
>help myself.  I really get pissed off when the cover or binding gets a
>crease in it.  When I buy a book I go through every one until I find 
>one thats perfect. Sometimes this requires that I go to several stores
>before I find one that good enogh.  It nice to know I'm not the only one
>out there with this condition.

 Whew! WHAT A RELIEF!!
 I thought I was the only nut in the country riffling through
the bookstore shelves to get that PERFECT-looking book.
  Hey, maybe we should get together and form a club or something.
How about SFFPB (SF fans for perfect binding)?
--Amin
From: matt@physics16.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Brain size (was Re: the "cause" of homosexuality)
Date: 24 Jul 92 10:49:38
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
	<burt.711946518@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca>
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics16.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: burt@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca's message of 24 Jul 92 02:55:18 GMT

In article <burt.711946518@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> burt@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Burt Voorhees) writes:

>   The differences in math are in the area of mathematical reasoning and
> in the best studies I know of they are hugh.  E.g., with a sample
> population of something like 60,000 mathematically gifted 13 year olds
> given the math part of the SAT's boys outnumberded girls in the over
> 700 score group by 13 to 1.  There is the question of how much of this
> is cultural bias, but one doubts that it all is.

Depends on who "one" is.  Until we can study a society where boys and
girls are raised in a similar manner, I contend that it is impossible
to tell whether there are any difference at all between male and
female behavior that are not due to upbringing.

I am especially reluctant to draw conclusions about "men" (about two
billion people) and "women" (about two billion people) on the basis of
a small number of people who are largely from the same race, social
class, and culture.
--
Matthew Austern              I dreamt I was being followed by a roving band of
(510) 644-2618               of young Republicans, all wearing the same suit,
matt@physics.berkeley.edu    taunting me and shouting, "Politically correct
austern@theorm.lbl.gov       multiculturist scum!"... They were going to make
austern@lbl.bitnet	     me kiss Jesse Helms's picture when I woke up.
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: space opera:  definition
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:21:42 GMT
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

Two definitions.

A "space opera" is an action-adventure story set in a science fictional (i.e., 
interplanetary, interstellar, etc.) setting, with lots of flashy gimmicks, 
aliens, etc., such as would make great hi-tech special effects if filmed (but 
the concept is much older than hi-tech special effects), but either (a) no 
actual specualtive/science content, or (b) while such content is there it's not
in any way central or important to the plot.  

Directly opposed to this is the second definition:

A "space opera" is an action-adventure story set in a science fictional (i.e., 
interplanetary, interstellar, etc.) setting, where the plot revolves around
flashy gimmicks with some kind of pseudo-scientific explanation, which
typically might be best used to clean porkers.

"Star Wars" is the classic example of the first category; E.E. Smith's
"Skylark" series is the classic example of the second.

The term comes by analogy for "soap opera," for bad romances, and "horse
opera," for bad westerns.

		He's got a mask that's black and white
		  Mine's just black but that's all right
		In silence and cunning he plies his trade
		  I ply mine in silence and shade
		[. . .]
		In the heart of the city it's murder time
		  It ain't no crime to kill a mime
			-- "Killing a Mime" by Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Restricted breeding (was Re: The Moat around God's Eye)
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:14:19 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <690@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:
>In article <1992Jul17.070458.2156@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:

>|I also strongly urge both of you to read a text on thiws subject - the
>|best I know is Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene.  Once you do you
>|will understand why the statement above is wrong.

>No, it is *not* one of the best.  It is extremely one-sided, and
>very preachy.  I prefer less volatile presentations of population
>biology.

Great.  Please identify where he goes wrong.

>|Just for starters, mind telling me who it is who is thinking "Hmm.
>|Better Make female rabbits reabsorb embryos in crowded conditions so
>|they don't boom and bust."?  Is it the rabbits?  The genes?  God?
>|Who?

>Teleonomic behavior does not imply intentionality.
>Rabbits resorb embryos because that increases their chances of successfully
>raising young, later.  This is the reason for the behavior, whether there
>is intentionality on the part of the rabbits or not.

Correct.  This is a different goal than avoiding a population bust.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written