HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kfh3591@tamuts.tamu.edu (Khalil Hayek)
Subject: Re: Son of God(was Shaheed)
Organization: ~/lib/organization
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:21:54 GMT

In article <4402@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>Nasri writes:
>>For those of you who do not understand how Jesus can be the Son of God and be
>>God at the same time, here is  an analogy.
>
>[deleted]
>
>So how can you explain God dividing Himself into three equal parts?  How is
>it that God could give birth to Himself?  Die on the cross - betrayed by the
>people whom he considered his 'chosen' ones?  Isn't being a human take away
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>from the complete divinity of God Himself?    
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Why don't you look at as elevating the status of the human race instead?
You see, all religions agree that God is perfect, so it goes without saying
that whatever we do will not take away from His state. Furthermore, since 
He is perfect, He will not do anything that will take away from His own
esteem and perfection. Then it remains clear that the other end of the 
relation is affected by the incarnation of God as a human.

>
>It is too hard to believe there is any logic behind this '3 in 1' theory.
>Isn't this an old Greek-Roman philosophy?

This is actually global natural mythology. Religions are before everything 
else written in the nature of people. Nobody imagines God and His Prophets 
sitting around a table and working out the plans for the different religions.
Man realized the necessity of the existence of a divinity long ago, before 
there were religions. It did not take much work to realize the necessity of 
their being a single omnipotent such divinity. What common people see is 
a multiplicity of divinities in some religions, e.g, ancient Greek, Hindu,
is actually a diversity in the laymans expressions of the One presence that
the Hindu (for example) layman knows exists behind all these simplistic masks.
Multiplicity as you think of it, as Three Gods in One in the Christian dogma
does not exist. They are all a manifestation of the same power. 
You can either accept this for the profundity of it, or keep digging around
it for centuries for lack of a more productive argument.

>
>>much more complicated of course.  And this is why Jesus told us that he was the
>> sun of GOD, the Father.
>
>If it was meant for all mankind to believe in, why is it that it is so
>complicated to understand?  And where is it written in the Bible that Jesus
>supposedly proclaims that he is the son of God (astaghfir Allaho atheem)?
>
>Wouldn't that (shouldn't) also apply to Adam?  And didn't Jesus say that
>there is only one God and to worship Him only?  How can Jesus be the 'Son of
>Man' and the 'Son of God' (astaghfir Allah) at the same time?
>
>Are you Greek or Russian orthodox?
>
>Thanks -
>
>Anisa
> 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Phoenician Territory
Organization: UiO
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:36:31 GMT

I quote from: The  Phoenicians, by Donald Harden, London 1962.

NB.direct quotes in quotations


"To start with, anyhow, the Phoenicians travelled westward not as true
colonists but as traders." p.158


p.158 Utica, Carthafe, Gades "most of the early settlements, especially in the
west, were little more than charted anchorages where ships could pull in after
a day's sailing, the sites chosen basically as being an appropriate distance
from one another...."


p. 164 "Moreover the Phoenicians in Africa, benefiting from the work of
explorers (p.178), had trade relations by land, as well as by sea through marts
on the west coast of Africa, with the far inetrior of the Sahara and perhaps
even Nigera in the south..."

some of the phoenician cities and sites:

tunisa: Carthage, Utica p.38

Morocco: (between Casblanca and Agadir) p.37, Mogador, Tangier, Tamuda p.64-65

Sicily: Motya p.37, Oanormus (Palermo), Soloeis (Soli) p.62

Sardinia: Sulcis (S. Antioco), Caralis (Cagliari), Nora, THarros p.39

Malta:  Valleta? artifacts in Gaulos (Gozo) and Kossyra (Pantelleria) p.40

Spain: Gades (Cadiz), Ebusus (Ibiza), Carthage Novo (Carthagena) p.40, Port 
       Mahon (Magon) p.63, Torre del Mar (near Malaga)?, Badera, Sexi, 
       Malagap.64

Greece: Thebes

Cyprus: Larnca p.58

Egypt: (on the delta and further on the Nile)60

Rhodes: Cameiros, Ialysis p.61

Crete: Itanos p.61
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Subject: correction
Organization: University of Strathclyde
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:22:38 GMT


In article <1992Nov18.093048.8188@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>
[  ...  ] 

>Yes, I understood what you were trying to say in your posts and I did not think
>that you object to one religion and you accept another instead. 
>
>I wrote to ask about the principals behind your arguments. It seems to me that
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>you were not consistent in what you hold. You argue for a power sharing formula
>in the Lebanon and you explained that some people simply need a guarantee in the
>form of political power, despite being undemocratic 100%.

Elie, you are not the only when that makes mistakes. I meant to say 
"principles".
Sorry.

I. Ballouz
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Canaan!(was:Re: Representatives on Lebanon)
Organization: UiO
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:52:52 GMT

Concerning the actual geographical borders of anicent Canaan:

I would aslo say, Aziz, that even within the bounderies of ancient Canaan there
were very many peoples and linguistic entities. It is not always possible to
know how these people identified themselves, but we can deduce some identities
from the writings of these people.

It is quite clear that Canaan was not a homogenously populated area with
"Canaanites" only. Therfore, living in the same area, and having similar
habbits did not imply that one belongs to the same people. moreover, having a
language that is linguistically related to the language of a neighbour does not
imply that you or your neighbour consider yourself as "one people".



elie wardini
From: zzaaskk@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: pluralism
Date: 20 Nov 92 09:49:32 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre CGU

In article <1992Nov18.141408.14796@ccsun.strath.ac.uk>, ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
> 
> In article <1992Nov18.115230.3975@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
>>
> [  ....  ]
>>
>>My principle is the following: Pluralism (real pluralism that is)
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The only true pluralistic state that ever existed over the last 14 centuries
were the Islamic states. Jews, christians, and members of other relegions
achived high political office as ministers and advisers to the rulers. Can you
say the same about any of the so called pluralistic states of the western
countries. Islam is the second largest relegion in france. There is not 
even a mayor who is Muslim in france. The same goes for the UK not one Member
of parliment. One mayor though I am not sure if he is still mayor or not.
How about the US? How many people of the non Judeo-Christian religoon hold
public office.  

>>
>>I am against a religious state, becuase this goes against my belief in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>pluralism.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

A religous state on the model that some people suggeste may raise fears. The
problem is not  the Islamic state. The problem is that Muslims fall far short
in formulating and articulating their vision of that Islamic state, in modern
and twentyeth, if not twentyfirst century, terms.

Kamie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: rached@blanc.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Suggestion
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:54:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: ee.1992Nov15.205414.6417
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering

Hi

Yesterday I was thinking, since CLAO is so close to
Governor/President-elect Clinton, can they persuade him to lift the ban
on tickets that have Lebanon on them. Currently, American airline
carriers are not able to schedule or book any flight that passes through
or terminates in Lebanon. This leads us Lebanese to have seperate
tickets from US to Europe and from Europe to Lebanon. SOmetimes we even
have tickets marked Damascus and then we have to convince the people at
the transit airposrt that the policy exists in US that's why I am going
to Beirut althouh my ticket shows Damascus. (It happened to me while
travelling through Egypt, the guy would not put my passport with the
transit people to Lebanon, insted he put it with those going to Damascus
and not up to 30 minutes before the flight I could not convince anybody
that I am booked for Lebanon and not Damascus).

So can ElieM convey that suggestion to CLAO to use their "connections"
to lift that ban ? It will make the life of many of us less miserable
when we want to fly home and will make our choices for tickets to Lebaon
broader and thus better.

rached
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: Son of God(was Shaheed)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:01:05 GMT

In <1992Nov16.105946.14891@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:

" it has never been intented to be clear. The church (especially the catholic
" church) says this is a mistery.

   It is a mystery to me, where the church got this idea of Trinity while it is
not explicitly stated in the Bible.

   It is an alternative that the church made this up and said it is the greatest
mystery so that people will disable their minds from questioning this move by
the church. Why was not this idea mentioned by other religions, like Judaism,
Abrahamism, etc.?

** Where is Sherlock Holmes, Watson and the guys?

** 'oltilI fi l.huB iLi ma yit'Al
      saDa'tak 'Al w ana batmaNA
   masmi^tish .ger 'a.hlam wi 'amAl
      wi ^alA da l.hAl min yistaNA   
                           --Mayyada "biti.hlif laih?"


Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@civil4.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: Suggestion
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 16:54:56 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@civil4.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Nov15.205414.6417@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>, rached@blanc.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached) writes:
[....]
> So can ElieM convey that suggestion to CLAO to use their "connections"
> to lift that ban ? It will make the life of many of us less miserable
> when we want to fly home and will make our choices for tickets to Lebaon
> broader and thus better.
> 
> rached
> 

Are you serious!
CLAO does not represent me to say the least...
Their bias and narrow objectives are evident.  They have one strategy:
NAIL the rebuilding process, and bring back the "old good times" of AOun:-)
-Hani
-- 
 ----------------------------         --------------------------
| Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu| _____ | 1354 G.G.Brown           |
| hani@engin.umich.edu       |       | Ann Arbor, MI 48109      |
 ----------------------------         --------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Syrian/Israeli Military control
Date: 19 Nov 92 12:26:55 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Nov18.163033.2600@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder) writes:
>Looking for some guesses on likelilood of Lebanese military control
>over their entire country.
>
>In ten years how likely is it that:
>
>There will still be Syrian Troops in Lebanon?
>There will still be Israeli Troops in Lebanon?
>There will still be other Non-Lebanese Armed forces in Lebanon?
>(Ex. Hezbolah (sp?))
>
>
>Randy Finder
>

Quite simply that's what it comes down to.... 
Elementary my dear Watson. 

Regards, Elie.

--

                                 ________
________________________________/--------\______________________________________
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: Son of God(was Shaheed)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:41:31 GMT

In <4402@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

" So how can you explain God dividing Himself into three equal parts?  How is
" it that God could give birth to Himself?  Die on the cross - betrayed by the
" people whom he considered his 'chosen' ones?  Isn't being a human take away
" from the complete divinity of God Himself?

   You misunderstood the idea. I will give you a simpler analogy to illustrate
how God is '3 in 1'. It is analogous to that 
     Nabeel Ghuzlaan = Bulbul = Normand Arthur Beeline = ... = ...
The three alter egos are aspects of the same personality, although each one
of them has its own character. I think now it is really xtal clear.
   The idea that Jesus Christ is the son of God is not biological so, God
(or His Wife) did not give birth, but it is a lingual means of saying that
Jesus is less authoritative than the Father (usually referred to as God).
   Jesus was not betrayed by his chosen ones, from the start he knew that
this Judas guy is going to betray him but he did not resist, it's his mission
anyway.
   To illustrate that being human does not "take away ...", imagine an
intelligence officer who is disguised as an ordinary citizen, does that
take anything from his authority; he is doing his job.

" It is too hard to believe there is any logic behind this '3 in 1' theory.

   Not after this article ;-)

" If it was meant for all mankind to believe in, why is it that it is so
" complicated to understand?

   It is not that difficult to understand, and also it was invented to test
humans faith.

" And where is it written in the Bible that Jesus
" supposedly proclaims that he is the son of God (astaghfir Allaho atheem)?

   It is written in all the gospels that Jesus in the only son of God, but I
do not remember where exactly, I think it is towards the beginning of every
gospel.

" Wouldn't that (shouldn't) also apply to Adam?  And didn't Jesus say that

   No, of course not! Adam was created, but Jesus was an human incarnation
slash manifestation of the son of God.

" there is only one God and to worship Him only?  How can Jesus be the 'Son of

   Yes, Jesus was referring to the Father.

" Man' and the 'Son of God' (astaghfir Allah) at the same time?

   You confuse yourself by interpreting the word "son" in the biological
sense, it is not. Son of Man is Jesus' title when he sits for judging
people in the Judgement Day.

" Are you Greek or Russian orthodox?

   I am Hindi ;;-) (How do you wink with two eyes?)

" Thanks -

   100 ahlain.

" Anisa

** wA shra.h lahA ^an ... :-D
                     Fahid Ballan
From: elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: LEBANON'S PRIME MINISTER BUILDS UP MEDIA
Date: 22 Nov 92 00:43:55 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


Sounds like Robert Maxwell, next thing he ends up dead and his family broke.
:-)

Regards, Elie.

--

                                 ________
________________________________/--------\______________________________________
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 15 Nov 1992 18:36:14 CST
From: Nasri <U38065@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Shaheed
 <nabeel.721857251@oracle.sce.carleton.ca>

What is the difference between an ISLAMIC temr and an ARABIC term ?

Islam is a religion, arabic is a language.

A religion is what you believe in, and a language is what you express your idea
s, BELIEFS, etc ... in

So how come some of you are distinguishing the two ??????

I cannot figure it out !

If shaheed was an islamic term, it was expressed in the arabic language to desc
ribe a muslim who dies for the faith.  Therefore it has an ISLAMIC meaning, and
is an arabic term.

Koddiss, is NOT a christian term.  It has a meaning in the christian religion,
but IS an arabic term.  Or wherever you can find its roots.

One more thing, before Mohammed, there used to be arab christians, and I think
one of the biggest tribes was christian.  I cannot remember its name, anyway,
what did pre-mohammedian christians call GOD ?

Was it Allah, DIOS, GOD, Jahveh ?? What was it?

Because if they called God Allah, then wouldn't Allah be a Christian term
used by christian Arabs before Mohammed ?



Nasri

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|        Je suis jeune, il est vrai; mais aux ames bien nees            |
|        La valeur n'attend point le nombre des annees.                 |
|                                                 LE CID (DON RODRIGUE) |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: saouma@inglis (SAOUMA VICTOR E)
Subject: Re: Re article Elie Dib Wardini
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:30:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.191228.4618@cicb.fr> hammoud@cicb.fr (Mustapha Hammoud) writes:
>Salut,
>
>J ai ete tres surpris par ton article que tu as publie dernierement sur LEBNET.
>A l epoque de l EID EL KIBIR il y a eu quelques mots sympathiques a
>propos de cette heureuse ocasion. Et on a vu que tu etais contre cela
>car tu considerais d apres toi que ca doit se feter dans la mosquee. 
>Aujourd hui tu ecris un article de sur ta religion. Alors qu hier
>tu critiquais nos voeux pendant notre fete!!!!!!!
>
>Et en plus quelqu un est alle jusqu a dire que passer un message de EID MUBARAK
>sur le Net contribue a la division du Liban!!! BIZZZZZARE
>
>Alors que viens faire ton article, dont le titre signifie le contenu.
>Veux tu le supprimer car c est ton article qui attise le dechirement 
>du Liban et Pas un Simple EID SAIID.
>
>
>Regards

Mustapha:

Non pas que Elie ait besoin de qui que ce soit pour se defendre, et je
ne sais si tu as suivis les derniers articles sur LEB-NET, mais Elie
(et d'autres) reprenaient une argumentation sur le fait que le terme
de Martyr en Arabe ne peut s'applique qu'aux Musulmans, et que 
le Chretiens ne peuvent se "l'approprier" (article de JLE).
Ou etait tu quand cette flagrante presomption etait faite?

Victor


-- 


Victor E. Saouma
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Subject: Re: correction
Organization: University of Strathclyde
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:28:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.112238.10462@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov18.093048.8188@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>>
>[  ...  ] 
>
>>Yes, I understood what you were trying to say in your posts and I did not think
>>that you object to one religion and you accept another instead. 
>>
>>I wrote to ask about the principals behind your arguments. It seems to me that
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>you were not consistent in what you hold. You argue for a power sharing formula
>>in the Lebanon and you explained that some people simply need a guarantee in the
>>form of political power, despite being undemocratic 100%.
>
>Elie, you are not the only when that makes mistakes. I meant to say 
                           ^^^^^^
>"principles".
>Sorry.
>
As you can see, this is not my day.
I meant to say : one 

>I. Ballouz
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.arabic
From: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi)
Subject: Re: Please VOTE No
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 06:56:56 GMT

In soc.culture.lebanon you write:

[...]

>Is this yet another example of tolerance for a non-muslim
>religion which should encourage Christian Lebanese to embrace
>an Islamic Republic? 

Why are you concerned? Are you planning to start a new religion called
religion.islam.christianity?  

Couldn't you tell that the original poster's point of contest was not
whether or not the Ahmadiyas should or could form their own group!?
His contention, as you would have probably understood had your
hate-prone heart stopped tempering with your logic, was in the use of
the word Islam in their newsgroup's name and not whether the Ahmadiyas
could form a newsgroup per se!  Besides, he is simply asking those who
might share his views to *VOTE* no, that's v o t e.  To my knowledge,
the voting process which the original poster has called for defines
democracy, does it not to you Victor?

You really are giving the word miserable a whole new meaning!

>-- 

>Victor E. Saouma

-- 
+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
Subject: ? About a Fairuzic
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:18:08 GMT

   In one of Fairuz' mowashahs she says:
   
      law kAna qalbI ma^I ma .ktarto .gayrakomO
         wa lA ra.dIto siwAkom fi lhawA badalA
         
   Who is she addressing?


** .tAr il.hamAm .tAr     min .kalfi DAr .tAr
   .habIbI ba^dO .habIbI  .haTA law kAni .hmAr

[Unfortunately, this is the real case.]

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon