HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: v085r6qm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Erin D Markle)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Tetragrammaton/DNA
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:31:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


Yes, it's time for some more unintelligible, -if not
entertaining- ideas from, "muddle-head" (a serious
problem that I'll put on the table later for medical
attention.)
     This is getting into the problems of biological
and verbal linguistics just a bit: I need to hear from
someone with more of a spattering of Biological Sciences
knowledge than I have. I think that I was reading or
watching a program(love that word...) about DNA.
I think that..... ******BRAIN SPLOOGE!!!!!!*******
         ... It was Carl Sagan's, The Dragons of Eden.

     Sagan, describing the language of DNA, (which he
incedentally calls, "The book of life..."), speaks about
nucleotides... Four to be exact. Genetic instruction
being based upon the combination of different PAIRS
of the four nucleotides. (book in front of my forgetful
face now... above info still checked to be o.k.)
    "The language of life,our hereditary information,
     is determined by the sequence of four different
     sorts of nucleotides. We might say that the language
     of heredity is written in an alphabet of ONLY FOUR
     LETTERS." (my capitalization)

  Obviously, I'm implicating the Tetragrammaton here.
Could  nucleotides be what happens when the Big T
(oooh,... was that irreverent?), was "blown" through
a biological filter in the "Divine breath of Life."
If there is a correlation here, (which I'm sure this 
could be entered in the Guinness Book for over
simplifications), Nanotechnology could be a phenomena
of prophetic proportions... and the possibilties don't
stop. (I hope)
  Maybe this is a foolish parallel to attempt to draw.
I think it's better to go down swinging...

     "This DNA molecule is composed of smaller building
      blocks [nucleotides], a little like the rungs and
      sides of a ladder."
                           -Carl Sagan, The Dragons of 
                                        Eden.

Since ourselves, and all taxa, are composed of the above
it's probably good to ask questions about it. There was something 
else too, but I've forgotten.

                                 -Friend of Erin

| Why is the Occult so secert ?|
(those who MUST send an ANSWER could be a part of the
 of the reasoning)
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Shielding <was: Re: Empathic question>
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:33:48 GMT

cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low) writes:
> >So, does anyone else out there use tensor calculus as a magical tool?
> Good grief! ONLY when my shields are differentiable manifolds.

I've found them sufficient for everyday use...

> I prefer to to use mathematically intractable
> objects on non-differentiable (but continuous) manifolds - keeps the
> opposing Black Lodge of psycho-geometricians busy while I do a curvilinear
> transform on their own shields and slip in at the poles.

Well, I generally don't have this problem.  I suspect that if I did have 
problems with Black Lodges, I would switch to a software metaphor.  I've 
never met someone who could outdo me in complex multithreaded event-driven 
realtime programming.  Of course, this fits in rather well with the theory of 
elementals (or golems, if you apply AI techniques).

> P.S. see the Smalltalk Blue Book for real magical insights.

Just don't try the CCITT Blue Book by accident.  And you though Enochian 
invocations were bad...


Yours in half-silliness,

Amanda Walker
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Somethings wrong... Money Spells
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 07:34:15 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <0096076E.1E015840@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>

9209.12 e.v.


In Taoist Magick we take a slightly different tack...

If you wish to have enough money, watch your budget, do what you can to
increase your income, then spend whatever you want on whatever you feel
is important to have.

Sooner or later you'll feel comfortable with what you've got. ;>

Thyagi
------------------------------------------------------------------
Wanting Yin?   Seek out Yang!   Never fails, with patience.
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.satanism
Subject: Re: ritual curse against an enemy (help wanted :-)
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:45:40 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

tedrick@melody.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick) writes:
: Can anyone tell me (or recommend a source for) some ritual curses
: to use against enemies (assuming this is legal, are we still free
: to do this kind of thing these days?)
: 
: It's getting so you can't make a move without violating some law,
: and enemies endlessly interrupting and interfering with ones routines
: as if they have some divine right given by the state to step on you
: despite one not having initiated any kind of hexing or interference
: is getting out of hand.

Sounds like paranoia to me. What makes you think that anyone else would
be interested in either your or my petty fumblings? In most cases, the
feeling that someone is interfering with a person's work is simply a
rationalization for not getting any results. Rarely is anyone making any
concerted effort to frustrate the actions of another - something they
cannot do anyway, if they do not know what the person is doing.

Why is it that you seem to consider anyone who does not go along with your
wishes an "enemy"? Have you considered the fact that you might be interfering 
with them - regardless of your being unaware of such interference? Have you
wondered if your labeling of others as enemies/opponents might actually be
impeding your own efforts?  After all, you are closest to the action. Just
like any other energy source, it is far easier to create the energy than it
is to damp it or redirect it. 

I would recommend just getting on with what you wish to accomplish. Accept
failures as due to lack of knowledge/experience, rather than blaming them
on an outside agency. I think you will find you are far more productive that
way.

Of course, if you do something that harms another person, then expect some
sort of retaliation/balancing/return. Work on altering and improving yourself,
rather than others - it is far easier and less likely to produce undesireable
side effects.

Bill
Organization: Sophomore, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 1992 10:44:59 -0400 
From: Shawn Clayton Knight <knightster+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: 666 (was The pentagram)
	<Bu8wnu.1uM@acsu.buffalo.edu>

*sound of physics major in glee at mathematical solution*

The 2/3 analysis is great!  I hadn't thought of that, and whether John
did or not :), it's certainly a useful concept.  After all, Lucifer has
been known to admit his position under God (see Job), but never under
the Son - missing 1/3!

So the Beast 666 could be anyone who denies the Son (in Christian
terms).  In more general terms I would say, anyone who denies the
unity/completeness of God.  Very cool way of looking at it.

-shawn

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Pegasus)
Subject: Re: Tactile Kinetic (Was RE: Shields)
Organization: University of Oregon, Architecture
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 01:49:24 GMT

(Posted by Jay Brandt for his Wife)

An addenda to my first posting.

  There is a need for someone like Helen Kellers teacher to pour water into

our hands and tell us it is water.  Our perceptions of the psychic reality 
are shaped very much like the six blind wise men and the elephant.  Is this

a wall? rope? spear? fan? tree? or a snake? none of these when put 
together make an elephant of course.

If as Colin states in his posting((Colin Low) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992
13:18:41 
GMT, Message-ID: <83950131@otter.hpl.hp.com>) ...Society for Psychical 
Research did experiments on this about 100 years ago,... ... about 10% of

individuals have almost no visualisation ability, and about 10% can 
visualise with visual clarity...
What is needed now is to answer the questions 
  Where did the results of these studies get published. (a compleate 
bibligraphic entry would be extreamly useful.)
  What was the test population made up of?
  Was it all men or all women, if it was a mixed group what was the
    percentage of the test population were women and what were men?
  Was there an ethnic mix (ie non european) included in the test population

    if so what was the brake down between the groups? 
What were their ages and educational, social and religious backgrounds 
and last but not least how many took part in this study and how long did 
this study run.
  Seeing that the results are around one hundred years old maybe these 
tests should be run again on a larger sampling and tighter controls.
  The reasons for asking so many questions is that If the test population 
was strictly all Eurpoean Caucasians then you could make the suposition 
that the ability to see might be genitical linked and passed down 
through the female to both men and women and must be matched with the 
same gene to create the ability to see.  It could be that the reason for
it 
shows up only in 10% of the population tested.  If so one might beable to 
put forth the thesis that the vast majority of the women who had this 
gene were distroyed during the burning times, and thus limiting its spread 
into the population base at large.
Pegasus
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Psychic Defence. Help needed
Date: Wed,  9 Sep 92 16:41:07 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <JOSHUA.92Sep8215745@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>
  <BuBH49.Mwy@acsu.buffalo.edu> <BuBJ2A.1H3@acsu.buffalo.edu>

9209.09 e.v.

Along with Josh's expert advice in this thread and Amanda's in
another, I'd add this:

If you get beat up on the playground and you want to keep it from
happening again you have a few options.  One is to build up your
muscles and then prevent it with pure force.

The other is to learn some judo (or other martial art) and prevent
it with the force of the opponent and your technique as an artist.


In terms of psychic self-defense the first can be accomplished through
intense meditation.  Get together with some Zen-heds or watch a candle
15 minutes twice a day for 6 months.  Then learn how to blast and curse
with the best of them.

The second method begins what I'd call the 'Simon Iff Method' that
Bunny Averett has mentioned and to which I think Amanda's comments
apply.  It is better seen as the 'mystic's ploy'.  When energy and
attacks don't exist, they can't hurt you.  


Thyagi
-----------------------------------------------
Much of Magick relates to belief.  If we don't believe in anything absolutely
then we are impenetrable.  Power is the ability to believe or not AT WILL.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: robg@citr.uq.oz.au (Rob Geraghty)
Subject: Re: Dreams
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 09:14:57 GMT

laura@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Tygress) writes:

>Do most people think of Dreams as Prophetic?  Usually only
>recurrent ones?

Very few of my dreams have ever been prophetic.  I can't ever remember
having recurrent dreams (not *exactly* recurrent, anyway :-)
But I *have* had dreams with events that later happened in RL.
(see alt.dreams)

I agree with other posts that symbols in dreams can be useful to help
sort out *current* problems in your life.

>Is it possible to have a Teacher reach you thru 
>Dreams?

I don't know, but I hope so :-)
I have been told that I am getting messages this way...

Rob

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Geraghty                         | Time, flowing like a river
robg@durian.citr.oz.au               | Time, beckoning me
CITR                                 | APP
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Psychic attack/shielding/empathy
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:47:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <memo.619688@cix.compulink.co.uk>, shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk writes...
>Hmmm.
> 
>Double Hmmm.
> 
> 
>Well Amanda and Eddie.
> 
>Suppose that all this teenage psycho-melodrama WAS actually real (if
>unconscious on the part of the sender) pschic attack, and the process
>of 'realising it was the externalisation of internal conflict' was in
>fact ACTUALLY the process of _internalising_ an _external_ process as
>a *means of defending against it*.

Why is it that someone who is a teenager (or thereabouts) is 
automatically said to be acting out a psycho-melodrama?  I've 
read equally far-fetched posts from adults and nearly everyone 
accepted theirs at face value.  What are these value judgements based 
on?

IMO they are based on group-think.  There's an "inner circle" 
here on alt.magick that sets the standards for what is acceptable 
and what is not - to think, post, believe.  

An inner circle member can post something and *not* be subjected to 
the same level of critical thinking that outsiders endure.

I hope the "fringe participants" aren't intimidated by this.  The 
day everyone accepts the "inner circle's" basic tenants is the 
day alt.magick becomes boring.

Re: Kethry's spirit - I think she is really experiencing it.  I 
also think she created it and its manifesting some hidden parts 
of her psyche - and she can get rid of it.  Note - just my 
opinions, which are all judgements boil down to anyway.

- Peggy -
From: eburke@aludra.usc.edu (Kethry)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: (Was shields down) Now: morality of love as force
Date: 14 Sep 1992 08:42:23 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


		I think that I had better make a few things clear here.
The first thing is that I never said that I was attacked or foelt like I 
was being attacked.  I simply said that there was a spirit in my house that
was iritating me because of the way he *held* himself...Also, I am not making
him up, others have felt him...
	There could be many causes as to his presense...I could have created
him, the negative energy that my sister exudes could have attracted him, or
the fact that there was a house that seemed like a good place to set up 
residence...There are more possible reasons, but I am not going to go into
it...
	I thank everyone who has helped me find solutions in whatever means
they were...I also thank the skeptics as they forced me to think and think and
think...I find merit pretty much in what everyone is saying.
	As for my thoughts on the situation now...I think that I was scared
at first because while I have dealt with spirits in various ways before, 
none have decided to stick around like this one has...Now, I am more comfor-
table and would like to let him stay _AS LONG AS HE DOESN'T CREATE ANY MORE
TROUBLE_ and I will tell him this if and when he comes back.  He left before
I decided what I wanted to do...
	I'm sorry if this is not in the format that the old-timers approve
of, but this is one newbie who isn't about to leave because of a few 
intimidating posts.  I may be young (19), but I am stronger than most
people would think and as to defending myself, according to my teacher
for my age and experience, I know and can do instinctively way too much...
Therefore, I may not be able to defend myself consciously, but I can do it..
In written terms maybe not, I have never been  a writer as all of my English
teachers through the years can attest.  As to my abilities, I am not stupid
enough to go charging into a situation that I may not be able to deal with
just because I *may* have the ability to fight it subconsciously....I am trying
to take things _VERY_ slow in my learning and in my searching for what I can
do.  In that I hesitate to do many things...
	Thank you all for everything, and if you have any replies, please
do it by e-mail to eburke@huey.csun.edu as the account that I am posting
from is going to be killed on the 30th of Sept...Thank you...

		Blessed be,
		  Kethry
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: gnome@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Gary)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Up and Down and Pentagrams
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:45:36 GMT

Up and down.  Inverted.  Bleh!

It's just rotated 72 degrees.

Now we could argue about which way it's rotated!  :-)
(And which is good or bad...)

Gary

(
 :->=
(
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: authors not Crowley
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:46:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <Bu8K9M.JFJ@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v085r6qm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Erin D Markle) writes...
> 
>                |||| W.E. Butler ||||
>(author, Liberal Catholic priest,magician,...died in 1978)
>      I have found his work to much appeal to my sense
>of the importance of Christ figures. I wasn't religously
>reared, yet the idea of Christ (yes, capital "C") seems
>to be an unavoidable issue on the path to inner enlighten-
>ment.

Not necessarily.

>I know that this kind of recognition is no more imperative
>to the use of magic. (sorry about the k, I think we can all
>deal.) ... as it is to eating or scratching your butt. I
>have gathered though,that this recognition takes quite a
>load off so that eating and scratching your butt can be 
>more freely enjoyed. I DON'T KNOW. 

I don't understand this analogy.  Butt scratching has never been 
a part of my magickal practice.  Is this something you recommend? 
:)

>Dion Fortune also seemed to be a Christ advocate, 

She was a Christian, which type I don't know.  I've only read one 
book of hers - The Mystical Quabala.  She did not "advocate 
Christ" in this book, though some might feel that some of her 
interpretations were influenced by Christianity.

>so I was wondering how much of this
>network was hostile to this idea Christ acceptance as a 
>helpful bridge to understanding. (I'm not a converter or
>shaky about my path--- I'm very curious about the potential
>applications of bombshell discussions) I can drop this 
>discussion if no one is interested without feeling cheated.

Use whatever works for you.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think this is really a 
bombshell.  Most people here respect religions in general, though 
many here do not formally subscribe to one.  Now if you asked 
about this on alt.atheism, some bombs might go off.

Me, I was raised strict Catholic (Irish-Catholic).  Despite the 
full brainwashing treatment, I managed somehow to never believe 
fully in Catholocism.  OK, there were times I believed parts of it, 
or liked parts of it - still like parts of it.  I quit attending 
church when I was 16 or 17 and haven't been involved with it 
since.

How this relates to magick.  Well, Christ and other personages in 
Catholocism help me to better understand quabala (Christ & 
Tiphereth being the most obvious example).  In fact, the quabala 
has given me back my past, minus the restrictions.  By this I 
mean that I can map things onto the quabala instead of tossing 
them.  (I do not *believe* literally in personified gods though.)

The mass and other rituals have helped me to understand rituals.  
Aside from Catholic rituals, I've only seen one other ritual 
performed  - A friend invited me to visit the local OTO where N. 
performed a ritual that had to do with the Egyptian underworld.  
They offered to teach me a ritual (a basic one in one of the 
Crowley books) but I declined.  Egyptian stuff is not my cup of 
tea as rituals go.

- Peggy -
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Psychic attack / shielding / empathy
Date: 13 Sep 92 04:19:43 GMT

oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
> Sure, but its not something to be met with ridicule and 
> condescending comments.  Its a mythic quest of great dimensions.  
> We all went through it, didn't we?

Indeed.  I will point out that I was *not* being condescending, and in fact I 
believe that the person I was responding to (brandywine) agrees with this.  
I'm sure I'll be corrected if I was mistaken :).  You will also note that I 
haven't said a single thing regarding Kethry's postings...

> Some straightforward criticism might be useful, but not a downpour 
> of ridicule.

<Raised eyebrow> I think you're exaggerating.

> There 
> are roughly 2 classes of energies at work - those who seek group 
> concensus and affirmation, and those who seek anarchy.  (Guess 
> which group I'm in.)

Based on your postings, I'd have to pick door #2.  You seem to enjoy poking 
at people.  Note: THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM.  It's a useful function in its own 
way.  It's just not great for building consensus and affirmation :).

> Anyone who posts frequently, or infrequently but with great 
> effect.

That is to say, anyone who wants to.  There is no coercion possible over 
Usenet, only discouragement.  And we *all* get that...

> Survival of the fittest.  Those who are not proficient at getting 
> their ideas across are knocked off early and never make it to the 
> "inner circle."

This is a written medium.  Those who use it best will get the most use of it.  
What else do you suggest?

> You said that too?

No, *I* haven't said anything to or about Kethry.  I was just observing that 
you seemed to be in contentious agreement with the people you are castigating.


Peace,

Amanda Walker
-- 
"I think you should profit from the mistakes of others.  You don't live long
 enough to make them all yourself."      -- Lowell Ferguson
From: cward@Think.COM (Christopher)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Psychic attack/shielding/empathy
Date: 14 Sep 1992 17:11:17 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: godot.think.com

In article <1992Sep10.145749.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
|> Yes, actually it *is** intimidating. I'm off on my own tangent, and I sometimes
|> feel unwelcome just *reading* alt.magick. I suspect some newcomers who
|> haven't developed much sense of themselves feel the same, judging by some of
|> the posts ("I'm  afraid to post lest I be flamed...").
|>  
|> There's a heavy atmosphere of "techie" here. If you haven't spent the last ten
|> years in seclusion studying all the right texts, and can quote entire chapters
|> off the top of your head, you don't belong here. Or at least you can't voice an
|> opinion.
|> 
|> Having mouthed off, I will now go to a friendlier newsgroup for the rest of the
|> day...
|> 
|> --Semhaza

Bah!  You mistake all the hot air blowin'round here fer flames.  Look close at
the posts and you'll see more bravado than anything else.  Lots of manure
but *where's the beef*?  Don't let the puffed-up, crowley-wanna-be's scare
you off (i.e. "take no notice of that man behind the curtain" to quote a
famous movie).  If they knew anything, you think they'd be hangin' about
here?  No! they'd be too busy tourin' n' writin' books.

Voice yer 'pinion.  Ask yer questions.  One thing I'll say 'bout fearing
the "flames" here, it ain't nutin' compared to handlin' raw forces.

	Puttin' my accent away now...