HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jzy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jim Yu)
Subject: Re: Japanese Players' Names
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:37:05 GMT

Another mistake!  This time on the Japanese Kana side:

   >Teng2-Ze2 Ku4-Zhi-Zhu4       Fujisawa Kuranoshuke
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^
                               should be: Kuranosuke

However, I have to point out: I got the Japanese Kana from the Net -- in
the 100 games of Go Seigen, there are 11 games between Go Seigen and
Fujisawa Kuranosuke (also 1 game between Go Seigen and Fujisawa Hosai,
which was Kuranosuke's other name), and in the records of all these games,
it is printed as "Kuranoshuke." After I consult my dictionary, I believe
this is a mistake.  Should be "Kuranosuke."

This mistake was pointed out by... well, you have to pay me to get his
name. :-)

Regards,
Jim Yu
--
Go isn't everything.  Go is the only thing.           -- zhuge

"zhuge, why does your .plan change every minute -- when i finger you?"
"you must have used a different finger each time."
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: Re: winning ratio
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 16:46:25 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

I found the refered to article:

In article <1992Nov18.060917.27210@u.washington.edu> adrian@stein.u.washington.edu (Adrian Mariano) writes:
>The formula was obtained from study of over 2000 games played in
>tournaments.  The study was done by Jos Vermaseren.  This doesn't
>conform to the (omitted) guidlines you demand, but it is the best
>emperical basis you can reasonably expect.  It shows (to some degree)
>what happens when real people with real ranks (however they were
>determined) play games.

The article that Joe Vermaseren wrote on this:

From: t68@nikhefh.nikhef.nl (Jos Vermaseren)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: loosing at 9 stones and probabilities
Date: 26 Jan 92 14:34:11 GMT

One of the  problems about the outcome of a game of go is, that it
depends very strongly on the circumstances.
I remember a series of games with a (very strong) 2 kyu (I was 3 dan
at the time). We would change the handicap if someone would win three
consecutive games. I got him to 9 stones. Then we played with 5 stones and I
could not win anymore.

Lightning go is also famous for handicap adventures. One evening it can
be possible that one player is `moved' to six stones, while the next
evening the opposite happens. So even though I am 4 dan I am sure that
a top professional can get me occasionally at 9 stones (when the beer flows
that is probably to his/her advantage).

This introduces probability, and another discussion brought on transitivity.
Suppose that the chance that a player at strength x wins from a player
at strength y is defined as P(x,y).
It is rather amaizing to me that actually P is measured to be only a
function of x-y. I have done this measurement with a database of about
2000 tournament games a few years ago. Actually if x weaker than y, the
function P(x-y) = ((1/3)^(y-x))/2 with x and y in units of half handicap
stones and beginning gives only half a stone more on the board.
When this function was used for the probability in a giant maximum likelyhood
fit for all these results the graph of measured strength versus generally
accepted strength was linear (with some scatter of course) from 5 dan to
15 kyu! I had not expected this in advance and it is something I still
do not understand.
Soem people claim that a normal exponential cannot be the right function,
but it does have some very nice properties. And when a 6 dan looses against
a 6 kyu (without handicap) something funny must have happened anyway.
The single power in the exponent makes that the results are interpreted
as `lost against a weak one' or `won against a strong one', but the exact
difference is not relevant in the limit of a big difference. (In a
maximum likelyhood fit at least).

Jos Vermaseren

---end of included text---

r.
From: djia@vax1.tcd.ie
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: To Neil
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:44:02 GMT
Organization: Trinity College Dublin

Neil
     I am very sorry that I forgot your e-mail adress. Would you mind
to send me a mail , anything.
                                                            Don
From: chapmand@chdasic.sps.mot.com (David Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Ratings systems etc
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:41:55 GMT
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Hello,

We have recently introduced the following scheme here at Arizona Go Club.

Players get assigned initial rank based on guesstimated strength. This rank
is a number typically between 20 and 100+ eg I'm 8-10kyu - my initial rank
was 35, there's a 4dan who is 93, the low kyu players are in the 50 to 70
range.

Before playing a game, handicap is determined by dividing the difference in
rank by 5 : eg On Wednesday, I (35) played Bill (63) - handicap was set to
63-35 / 5 = 5.4 == 5 stones : I won by 2 points.

The winner of each game increments his rank by 1 and the loser decrease his rank by 1.
We all have credit card sized booklets to keep track of our current rank.

It's a great way to keep track of the relative strengths of players within the
club and to see who is improving faster.

Except when new members join, the total number of points within the system is
constant, so everything is relative. 

Don't ask me how initial ranks are determined, I was just given a number by
the guy who introduced the system. The fact that my first two games in the
system were a 2 point win and a 4 point defeat looks very promising to me!

David Chapman
chapmand@chdasic.sps.mot.com

PS I should point out that the dan/low kyu players were using this system for a number 
of months before the high kyu players were 'admitted' last week, so a gradual
introduction may be the secret of this system's apparent success.
Date: Sunday, 15 November 1992 05:05:54 PDT
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.06
From: "Anton Dovydaitis" <anton@anton.infoserv.com>
Organization: Ishi Press International
Subject: Re: GO on The Sierra Network
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Distribution: world

In <ggcq3np@lynx.unm.edu>, blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)  wrote:
> 
> In article <765290d7683010t12@anton.infoserv.com> "Anton Dovydaitis" <anton@anton.infoserv.com> writes:
> >IGS can't pay for Pros to play online, but The Sierra Network can
> >and will.
> 
> So? The IGS is free, and world-wide and up and running. 
> And has already had pro title games. Live.
> 
> I'm not knocking TSN, but its not TSN that will be paying for pros to play
> on it, it'll be the users of TSN that will be paying.
> r.

Right.  Where else does money come from?  Customers.  I can't get access to
IGS because I don't have telnet/ftp access.  And free?  I'm paying $10.95
a month for newsgroup access because I don't have a University unix account.

I'm glad that IGS is there: its the best thing to happen to GO since John
Power started translating Japanese GO books to English and Richard Bozulich
started importing GO equipment to the West.  But an awful lot of people
can't access IGS.

I'm for anything that brings GO to more people.



---
---------------------------------------------------------------

Anton Dovydaitis
Ishi Press International
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: wolves.durham.nc.us!circle!lance (Lance A. Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Mailgo equivelant for PCs
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 22:24:06 EST
Organization: The Full Circle BBS, Raleigh NC

Hello,

  I am thinking about "porting" the mailgo script from the UNIX version of 
mgt to a DOS batch file for PCs.  Has anyone else attempted this?  If so, I 
would really like to hear from you.

Shoot, maybe I'll just write it in perl and be done with it.

Lance Brown
From: korkki@cc.tut.fi (Korhonen Mika)
Subject: Change my strength?
Organization: Tampere University of Technology, Finland
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 12:53:55 GMT


Hi!

I wonder when I sould change my rank in IGC?

Example: I win a better player or lose poorer player.

Should I change my rank right after the game, or should I wait until I have
played several games? How much sould I change my rank at once?


	Korkki, estimated rank 16k
	email: korkki@cc.tut.fi
From: jlzhong@vision.csl.uiuc.edu (Jialin Zhong)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Change my strength?
Date: 19 Nov 1992 20:07:30 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: vision.csl.uiuc.edu

olounela@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Olli Lounela) writes:

>No wonder there were several 8 dans and all too many 7 dans in the IGS
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>just a while ago.  I'm still waiting to see just how many 7 dans will
>remain when (and if :-) IGS rankings get organized to some (probably
>more demanding) standard -- when I last visited, there seemed to be no 
>8 dans. 

Do I have to remind everyone that I was the one and only 8d on igs? There
are no "several 8 dans", only one, and that was a joke, period. I can't
see why some people are so worried about other people's ranking on igs. 
As I said before, enjoy the game, play with someone you know. There are 
some fixtures, like jansteen :-), who won't change his name and ranking 
every other day. While we are at it, I want to say that there are only four 
players who are 7 dans. I garantee you that most of them are among the 
strongest GO players in the States, of course, amateur players. If they 
were in Europe, I know some of them would be among top three without a doubt.

Jialin "Only an NR on igs" Zhong
--
Jialin Zhong		    *   /  l    l        l   l  *    ---O--O--O--O---
1614 Beckman Institute	    *  / l-l-l -l-l l-l -l- -l- *   /--*--*--*--O--O
Urbana, IL 61801	    * /l l-l-l /  l l-l /l\ /l\ *  /--/--*--/--*--O
jlzhong@uirvld.csl.uiuc.edu */ l   l  /  \l    / l X l \* /--/--/--/--/--/
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: preston@miranda.cs.rice.edu (Preston Briggs)
Subject: Re: go-world no.67
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:04:36 GMT

jwang@gaas.uwindsor.ca writes:

>is "go-world" an English written magazine? How can I get it?

Go World is in English, published 4 times a year by

        Ishi Press International
        76 Bonaventura Drive
        San Jose, California  95134

The phone number is (408) 944-9900
A subscription (in Canada) is $23.00 a year.

Apparently back issues are available, though I'm
not sure how much they cost.

Regards,
Preston Briggs
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: jzy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jim Yu)
Subject: Re: The Mysteries of Weiqi (part 5)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 20:01:22 GMT

In article <By4I95.4zq@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> yychen@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Youyi Chen) writes:

>Number 2 golden rule is:
>
>                "Ru Jie Yi Huan"
>
>Ru4 = enter
>Jie4 = boundary
>Yi2 = should, ought to
>Huan3 =  unhurried, slow
>

     $            $        $          $$           $        $
    $$$           $$$$$$$$$$$     $    $$    $    $$$    $$$$$
      $$          $$  $$  $$     $$$$$$$$$$$$$$   $$  $$$$   $
      $$          $$$$$$$$$$    $$$         $$   $$    $ $$ $$$
       $$         $$  $$  $$     $  $     $ $    $  $  $$ $ $
      $$$         $$$$$$$$$$        $$$$$$$$    $  $$$$$$$$$$$$
      $$$$        $   $$  $         $$   $$     $$$$$   $$
     $$ $$          $$  $$          $$   $$       $$ $$$$$$$$$$
     $$  $$        $$    $$$        $$$$$$$      $$     $$   $
    $$   $$       $$$$   $ $$$$     $$   $$     $$$$$  $$$$$$$$
    $$    $$    $$  $$   $$ $$      $$   $$     $$     $$   $$
   $$     $$        $$   $$         $$$$$$$          $$$ $ $$
   $$      $$       $$   $$         $$   $$        $$ $   $$
  $$       $$$     $$    $$         $$   $$  $  $$$$ $$  $$$$
 $$         $$$    $     $$     $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  $   $  $$  $$$
$            $    $      $                          $  $     $
  
(Courtesy of Yijun Ding, the author of GB2TEXT -- the program that produces
the "expensive" characters above.)

(Tip: if the characters above seem too big to you, step back 2.41 meters.)

jzy, registered CEDIT and GB2TEXT user
--
Go isn't everything.  Go is the only thing.           -- zhuge

"zhuge, why does your .plan change every minute -- when i finger you?"
"you must have used a different finger each time."
From: jzy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jim Yu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: winning ratio
Date: 15 Nov 92 16:31:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov15.163127.26895
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

In article <1992Nov15.142906.30095@dickens.com> fred@dickens.com (Fred R Stearns) writes:
>In article <Bxq5pn.D89@nic.umass.edu> s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203) writes:
>>What is the expected winning ratio for two players? ... ... ...
>>Are there such statistics data? Is there a table to list these winning
>>ratios?
>>
>>bn 2k
>>
>>
>
>Somewhere (I can't remember where now) I saw the following
>formula:
>
>P = 1/2 * (2/3)^(2*d)
>
>where d is the absolute rank difference and P is the probability
>that the weaker player will win.
>
>-- 
>Fred R. Stearns -- fred@dickens.com
>Everything's a kludge!

Every time I see a formula, my eyes start to grow (near-sighted).  This is
a very interesting one!  I can't wait to apply it ---

*Assume* that I am a 2 kyu (shaking now :-)

Opponent	d	2d	(2/3)^(2d)	P	My wins/100 games

 2 kyu		0	 0	    1		0.500	      50
 1 kyu  	1	 2	   4/9		0.222	      22
 1 dan		2	 4	  16/81		0.099	      10
 2 dan		3	 6	  64/729	0.044	       4

Conclusion: If a player is of your same rank, he/she wins as much as you do
(between you two), needless to say; if he/she is one rank above you, he/she
would beat you 4 out 5 games; two ranks, 9 out 10 games; three ranks, 19
out of 20 games.  That's of course the case of even games.

(Note: Please don't apply the formula to UFO 30k; we will have no dans on
IGS.)

I know this formula is meant to be an approximation, but the results look
good to me.  Maybe this formula would make people to think again when they
promote or demote themselves.  I wouldn't hesitate to demote myself to 3k
if bn (the solid 2k who started this interesting topic) beat me 4 out of 5
even games. :-)

jzy 2k (currently unofficial rank)
From: li@bellman.aa.washington.edu (Rufeng Li)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Change my strength?
Date: 22 Nov 92 06:38:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov22.063855.13115
Reply-To: li@aa.washington.edu
Organization: U of Wash Dept of Aeronautics and Astronautics

In article <By19pv.BnC@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca>,
yychen@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Youyi Chen) writes:
>In article <1egs62INNjhm@roundup.crhc.uiuc.edu>
>jlzhong@vision.csl.uiuc.edu (Jialin Zhong) writes:                   
>^^^^^^^
>>see why some people are so worried about other people's ranking on
>igs. 
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>^^
>>As I said before, enjoy the game, 
>
>Great point! I like it.
>
>Stay turned for the coming article:

Well, you may not care yours and others rank, but most players on IGS do. It
always is a big deal. :-)

It is very hard to set your rnak on IGS. Some people suggested that
set rank by 
ones record. That implied a big assumption that everyone except you
already set 
his/her rank correctly. What happened if you beat a 6d easily and lost
to a 29k? 
I believe that happened on IGS, so what is the subjective standard? It
seems no 
way out.

Don't worry, I got an ORIGINAL idea. :-) We can choose someone who is
well known 
on IGS, say 'panx'. You can set your rank as fellows:

	4.2panx,	1.3panx or	-1.25 panx.

In first rank, you can give panx 4-stones and win about 60% games. In second 
one, you play with panx in even game and win about 65% and in third one, you 
always use b in no komi game and lose 62.5% when you play panx. Is this clear 
enough? If you use this system, it is very easy to set your rank. Of course 
we'll choose more standard players like 'ychen', 'zhong' and 'onek'
and work out 
conversion among those players. For example,

	1ychen=2zhong=3onek. (please note, this is an example only.)

BTW, 1 million thanks to 'tweet' for extra work for new system. :-)

Have fun and enjoy IGS.

--
UFO[1.2onek] at U of W, Seattle. 206-525-8549(H)  206-685-1930(O)
From: jeff@triryche.UU.NET (Jeff Snider)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: IGS?
Date: 21 Nov 1992 01:05:34 GMT
Organization: UUNET Communications
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: triryche.uu.net

This is the first day I have read this newsgroup.  I am an exceedingly
amateur player, and have little knowledge of the world of go.

Now that I have qualified my ignorance, I can ask a stupid question
or two.

What is IGS?

Does anyone play go across the net?  A friend and I played a game, 
under honor not to get unfair help, through email.  It was fun, but
cumbersome.

Does anyone know how to find local GO clubs?  I can't even find any
GO mags in the newsstands here.  There are bound to be some, since
this is Washington D.C.  They don't even play go at my college.

I have a few friends who play, but we have become tired of playing
only each other.  None of us are ranked, because none of us know
of any local clubs.  HELP!

Any advice is appreciated...

--
Jeff Snider                       Junior AlterNet Engineer 
snider@uunet.uu.net               uunet!snider
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: cust_ts@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tero Sand)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Change my strength?
Date: 22 Nov 92 09:19:18 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1endjmINNifl@roundup.crhc.uiuc.edu> jlzhong@uirvli.csl.uiuc.edu (Jialin Zhong) writes:
>While believe or not, I will never set my rank to 3.5UFO (only an example)
>although UFO is some kind of standard on igs. The whole thing is not which
>ranking system is better. Igs is only an informal forum for go lovers to have
>a place to play. Any ranking system, even the UFO system, is not and will not
>be perfect. So what is the point? As I and Youyi pointed out before, play with
[cut]

You know, this thing cuts both ways. You say you don't understand why
some people want a ranking system, but what _I_ don't understand is why
some people (not you, necessarily, you might not just give a damn
(frankly)) seem to vehemently *oppose* the idea. My view: as long as you
can still set the rank manually, and the server doesn't force handicaps
according to rank, those that don't care about ranks can continue to do
so.

And one more thing. Setting an arbitrary rating system seems silly to
me. Whatever system you use, anybody who has had enough brains to learn
go can easily calculate the equivalent kyu/dan rating.

	Tero Sand, 2 kyu
-- 
	EMail: cust_ts@cc.helsinki.fi   or   custts@cc.helsinki.fi
   "I feel most ministers who claim they've heard God's voice are eating
too much pizza before they go to bed at night, and it's really an 
intestinal disorder, not a revelation." - Reverend Jerry Falwell
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: jzy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jim Yu)
Subject: Japanese Players' Names
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:16:14 GMT

Hello everyone,

Japanese professional players no doubt have written one of the most
important chapters in Go history, and their names, naturally, have been
referred many many times.  

But many Chinese players in the net only know these names by Kanji (Chinese
characters).  And when they say "Xiao3 Lin2" instead of "Kobayashi", some
other people would say, "Huh?" On the other hand, when American or European
players say "Takemiya" instead of "Wu3 Gong", it's Chinese players' turn to
say, "Huh?"

So, we need a translation table.  And I personally feel it's more useful to
Chinese players, since the Romaji spelling like "Kobayashi" or "Takemiya"
are more or less international standard.  And we could damage the
"friendship among the international people" (please, Chinese folks, don't
laugh) if we force other people to know Pinyin.

As a second-year Japanese language student, I am glad to compile the
following table.  It contains some of the most famous Japanese pro.  But,
it's far way from "being complete," which might not be desirable either.

Please inform me if there is any mistakes, and tell me if anyone needs more
name translations.

Special thanks to my Japanese teachers, Takada Sensei and Kanada Sensei.
Also, thanks to Youyi Chen who encouraged me to post this table.

Kind regards,
Jim Z Yu

--------------------8<------------------------->8--------------------

Selected Japanese Go Players:

Names in PinYin			Names in Kana (written in English)

Wu2 Qing-Yuan2			Go Seigen
Mu4-Gu3 Shi2			Kitani Minoru
Ban3-Tian2 Rong2-Nan2		Sakata Eio
Qiao2-Ben3 Yu3-Tai4-Lang2	Hashimoto Utaro
Gao-Chuan Xiu4-Ge2		Takagawa Shukaku
Teng2-Ze2 Ku4-Zhi-Zhu4 *	Fujisawa Kuranoshuke
Teng2-Ze2 Peng2-Zai    *	Fujisawa Hosai
Teng2-Ze2 Xiu4-Xing2		Fujisawa Hideyuki (or Fujisawa Shuko)
Shi2-Tian2 Fang-Fu		Ishida Yoshio
Lin2 Hai3-Feng			Rin Kaiho
Da4-Zu2 Ying-Xiong2		Otake Hideo
Wu3-Gong Zheng4-Shu4		Takemiya Masaki
Jia-Teng2 Zheng4-Fu		Kato Masao
Zhao4 Zhi4-Xun			Cho Chikun
Xiao3-Lin2 Guang-Yi		Kobayashi Koichi

* Fujisawa Kuranoshuke (Teng2-Ze2 Ku4-Zhi-Zhu4), uncle of Hideyuki
(Xiu4-Xing2), later changed his name to Hosai (Peng2-Zai).

--------------------8<------------------------->8--------------------