HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nigel@rs733.GSFC.NASA.Gov
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Huge Robots as weapons, are they valid? Does it matter?
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:24:12 GMT
	<1992Jul28.163727.89578@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md, USA

In article <1992Jul28.163727.89578@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> jwadsley@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:

>> 
>> Veltyen has an excelent point. Which would scare *you* more, 45 tons of M1
>> Abrams rolling at you at 50mph, or 45 tons of humanoid, walking steel
>> bearing down on you at 50mph? I'd be more afraid of getting stomped on like
>> a bug than ground under steel tracks.

The M1...which can kill me at more than 3000 meters...besides...it's a
lot easier to gyro-stabalize a gun on a vehicle going 50 than a
humanoid going 50...

>Getting back to the other case, I think you would say:
>"Thank God, they sent a mech. Sergeant, blow up the left leg and we'll be outa
>here." :-) It would be easier to dodge a mech than a tank. The mech pilot can
>not see his legs. Bit of a design flaw huh? 

About par with "Sargent, blow the tread and lets get the heck out of
here before the Bradleys show..."  Unsupported armor tends to be meat
for modern dismounted infantry.  Which is why you send grunts with
your heavy metal...I really wish BTech made combined arms more
worthwhile...but 1.3 million on a platoon of grunts is a bit much...

>James Wadsley.

Nigel
--
Nigel Tzeng
.sig under construction
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:11:26 -0400 
From: "Mark A. Baxter" <mb8p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Deckers with...GRENADES!?!

   Yep.  When I made my first character (a mage, everything else is too
specialized, I'll continue to play only mages until they're weakened
down to par) I didn't know that mages were combat monsters in this game.
 I wanted to get a weapon that I could use without much skill.  I
decided on grenades.  For guns you dodge against the persons firearms
skill, which means a low firearms is doubly a problem.  I thought that
grenades seemed a good low skill weapon.  Any pinhead can toss one and
if you specialize your throwing you can get a three or four skill with
no problem.  They also have more stopping power.  Of course they're
probably the LEAST stealthy weapon but if shit's so bad that the Sam's
and the Mages can't handle it between them then it's too late to worry
about stealth.  Plus I just like that big BOOM.
Mark Baxter              |One is for sorrow,
<mb8p+@andrew.cmu.edu>   |Two is for joy,
ext #4690                |Three for a girl,
                         |Four a boy,
         I               |Five is for silver,
       Have              |Six is for gold,
         A               |And Seven's a secret
      Secret             |Never to be told.
From: stehman@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jeff Stehman)
Subject: Re: Best Player Lines
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 05:32:23 GMT


On one side of the table we had Argh Bonecruncher Marrowsucker and his band
of merry orcs.  On the other side we had Gratz somethingoranother
somethingoranother and his band of merry orcs.  As it turned out, both orc
chieftons were paying the same spy, thus ended up bumping into each other
on the way to raid the same 'unguarded' village (it's amazing how these
things happen, isn't it? :-)

This made for an entertaining evening; in fact, there was a time when I
wondered if we were going to actually get to the raid -- the players were
having quite a good time just conversing with one another.  Alas, most of
that night is a blank, and I can only remember a few lines.  Fortunately,
my favorite is among them...

Argh's lieutenant hawks a big one, looks around, then swallows.  Argh leans
over to his lieutenant and, in his deep, gravelly voice, "Well, I guess I
won't have to feed you tonight!"

Hey, they were orcs!

						Jeff Stehman
From: Les_Jenkins@lppl.mi.org (Les Jenkins)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Anyone Heard of Rifts
Distribution: world
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:00:53 EST
Organization: Les's Place BBS

In a message dated Sun 26 Jul 92  3:09,
cpbeaure@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Chris Beauregard) wrote:

 CB> I played RIFTS a few times.  My impression: - Awesome background. 
They
 CB> did a really thorough job on that part of things.

Kevin always does great background work.

 CB> - Usual Pallidium game system.  Yawn.  As usual, it turns into a
 CB> points war, as players try to extract every bit of skills, armor,
 CB> weapons, etc, that they possibly can.  The sheer destructive
 CB> capabilities of the hardware in the game didn't help all that much.

Like the same thing doesn't happen in the average AD&D game either. Every
AD&D game I've been in has been a rush for XP and Spells and Treasure and
Magic Items. 

As for the sheer destructive capabilities of the hardware, well, thats one
of my favorite things about the game. Makes for a lot of role playing
potential when a player accidently blows away the NPCs he needs to finish
the adventure, or worse yet, the NPCs who are related to the king they are
dealing with.

 CB> Full conversion Borgs should not be PCs, IMHO.  Ditto for Glitter
 CB> Boys.  My personal suggestion was to ignore the MDC/SDC distinction,
 CB> and have all weapons in the same damage system.  Not _really_
 CB> realistic (although not much father out that a guy in MDC chain mail
 CB> being immune to a 20mm cannon, or whatever) but much, much more fun.

Why do you feel that Full Conversion Borgs and Glitter Boys should not be
allowed as PCs? As for ignoring the MDC/SDC distinction, the rules state
that you may do so if you wish and provides rules for converting MDC to SDC
damage. Personally I think doing this subtracts from the game though.

 CB> The again, I'm a fan of _The_Last_Stand_of_the_DNA_Cowboys_, so I was
 CB> wanting to capture the spirit of the book...which I find the game
 CB> really ressembles...

Never read it so I can't comment.

 CB> In summary, great game, lends itself to munchkinism _really_ well.

So do half of the rest of the RPGs out there. It's up to the GM to avoid
munchkinism, not the game system. If he gives his players every little
thing they ask for without making them work for it then he'll ruin the game
no matter what system it's run under. Lord knows I've watched a GM destroy
more than one AD&D campaign by allowing too many magic items, or worse,
artifacts, to be used by the party at one time.


 -- AEd V1.36f/EvaA

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

======================================================================
E-Mail to:      | "Stimpy, sometimes your wealth of ignorance simply |
Les@lppl.mi.org |  astounds me." - Ren Hoek                          |
----------------+-----------------------------------------------------
From: grendel@uhuru.uchicago.edu (Cliff Winnig)
Subject: TSR Guidelines (Was Re: Dark games)
Keywords: TSR, right-wing fundies, & art
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:51:15 GMT

David Nalle quotes from the TSR writers' guidelines:
> 1: GOOD VERSUS EVIL
> Evil shall never be portrayed in an attractive light and shall be used
> only as a foe to illustrate a moral issue.

This is why I don't submit stuff to TSR. :)

It's a shame that TSR & AD&D are permanently targetted by radical right  
fundamentalists, as well as various police departments.  (Many police  
departments teach their officers which "occult" books to look for in a  
suspect's home, with the idea that a given crime might be motivated by  
"satanic cult" practices; the AD&D books are usually among those books.)

TSR's defense mechanism has been limited appeasement, and it's led to their  
current guidelines.  The guidelines remind me of nothing so much as Chairman  
Mao's guidelines for writers and artists, in which he says all art must make  
a moral point, and all protagonists must be loyal Communists fighting the  
"evil" forces seeking to destroy his government.

And like Mao's guidelines, TSR's lead to trite, irrelevant material.  Which  
is not to say that several writers haven't managed to produce good stuff  
that fell within TSR's guidelines (which, unlike Mao's, don't absolutely  
require the work to speak to the least common denominator in the audience).   
After all, the good vs. evil theme is popular in lots of fiction that isn't  
forced to use it.

Nevertheless, it would be nice if TSR got away from this sort of  
appeasement, but I can't really blame them too much for trying everything  
they can to avoid giving the right-wing fundies fuel for their hate and  
ignorance campaign.  It's just too bad that's what's happening.
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Dangerous Journeys terminology
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:02:11 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

In article <55262@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) writes:
> I may want to pick up this game after I look it over, if I read the terms
> I've seen aright.
> 
> "Heka" looks to be a direct descendent of the word "Hekau", which is the
> closest thing the ancient Egyptian language comes to having a word for 
> "magic" (as we would understand "magic").

That's probably what EGG based heka on, since Aerth's Aegypt is the
center of the official DJ/M accessories and campaigns.

Anyway, from the examples in the magic section and in the skill lists
it's clear that EGG knows his stuff when it comes to ceremonial magick,
even down to spelling magic with a k as thelemites would have you do.
Given the censorious atmosphere of 1992 USA I'm surprised at how clearly
he described summoning ceremonies in a game that is aimed at a high
school crowd.

Some xD&D players were upset that TSR backed away from including demons
and devils in their games. They should be happy with DJ/M.

> Could Gygax have actually been doing some research to make this magic system
> if not plausible, then as self-consistent as would be any "real-world" 
> ideas of magic?

I think that EGG does the research to make his own campaign world and
the scenarios he writes plausible, but he has trouble making the game
rules plausible, as do most storyteller GMs when forced to write game
rules. And that's what EGG is, make no mistake---a storyteller.

The magic rules in the DJ/M book itself are minimal, certainly not all
encompassing. Once the Mythus Magick book comes out, we'll see how
plausible the magic rules are. I expect them to be of a similar quality
and style to the Shadowrun magick rules from the Grimoire, which is one
of the best FRP magic systems out there.

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
The more corrupt the government, the greater the number of laws -- Tacitus
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: cassidy@cps.msu.edu.cps.msu.edu (John J Cassidy)
Subject: Re: GURPS: Alien races -- Too powerful?
Originator: cassidy@indian.cps.msu.edu
Keywords: GURPS Aliens Space
Reply-To: cassidy@cps.msu.edu.cps.msu.edu (John J Cassidy)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 14:40:57 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.063307.25962@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu> gil@smtc21.engr.scarolina.edu (Gil Young) writes:
>
>   It has occured to me that perhaps GURPS Aliens (and Fantasy Races,
>for that matter) have an edge over normal humans:  
>	Gil Young
>	gil@smtc21.engr.scarolina.edu

Absotively!  It's because GURPS little modular system does not have
things thought out before hand.  Two different effects for psi and
magic.  Two different systems for humans and non-humans.  When, as
others have mentioned before on the net, GURPS has a incremental cost on
attributes, How do you represent 2X an attribute correctly?  It's
ludicrous.  In Hero, all you do is add 5, if it is STRength then the
lifting capacity doubles, and thus represents double strength.
	
	John J Cassidy		Cassidy@indian.cps.msu.edu
	~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: laird@think.com (Laird Popkin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Best Super system
Date: 23 Jul 1992 00:02:33 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: django.think.com

In article <54784@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.161755.25460@news.columbia.edu> jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
>>	The other thing to be careful of is cost ratios. For example, 
>>damage generally costs 6pts per d6, whereas defense is 3pts per 1DR. This 
>>means that attacks will tend to overwhelm defenses. Pair up a bunch of 

[complaints about DR and hit points being too expensive deleted]

>As I've said before, good ideas, but the system is still too broken to use.

As I've said before, the fix is simple -- make them cheaper if that's what
you want in your campaign.  You're complaining about the value of a number,
not the way the system works.
-- 
- Laird Popkin, Thinking Machines

Connection Machine: Massively parallel supercomputer.  Also a cool black
cube with more blinking lights than you can shake a stick at.
From: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Dark Conspiracy
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:24:43 GMT
Reply-To: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: News and Views from LSU
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-23752]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu


	When Dark Conspiracy came out I managed to miss all the reviews.
Now I've become slightly interested in it.  Can anyone give a good basic
review?

	Part of my interest is due to the idea of adding limited fantastic
elements to a Twilight 2000 game.  Has anyone tried this before?  I'm mainly
thinking in terms of a slight magic and/or horror (either vampire/werewolf
type or Elder Gods type) but I've also toyed with the idea of advance tech
(cyberware, biotech and such) in limited areas.  How useful would DC be?
Does it include psionics?  

Dave 
__________
Dave Bonar
eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
__________
From: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Genres
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:10:53 GMT
Reply-To: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Organization: Department of Chemistry, UCLA

Like hell artificial muscle fibers couldn't be used to drive a tank tread.
It is (and has been for many years) possible to convert linear motion
to rotary motion with no loss.  How do these artificial muscle fibers help
the mech?

-Doug Gibson
 doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu

Neither UCLA nor the National Science Foundation has a clue what I am doing.
They just pay me to do it.

"We have to tear you to shreds because we care." - EAC
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp
From: jspencer@world.std.com (Jeffrey C Spencer)
Subject: Re: Talislanta move rate per day.
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:51:34 GMT

smash@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Scott Mash) writes:


>What is the rate of movement for the different speeds in Talislanta,
>I have looked through the guidebook and haven't been able to find
>anything related to distance/day. 

Third Edition Guidebook, p 42.
"Individuals and creatures can move up to one hundred feet in one round's
time, plus twenty feet per +1 speed rating, or minus 10 feet per -1 speed
rating....To adjudicate speeds, remember that that one mile per hour is
equivalent to about nine feet per round.  Normal walking speed for most
humanoid creatures is about 20 feet per round."

Is this what you were looking for?
-- 
jspencer@world.std.com     * Jeffrey Spencer, Dartmouth '91
Fortunately, Cerebus considered himself one of the top three crossbowmen in *
Estarcion and the desk clerk's window was well lit and stationary...
*He was actually number six, but no one had the nerve to tell him to his face.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: bilbo@bisco.kodak.com (Charles Tryon)
Subject: The Towers story....
Summary:  Sorry to be so late
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company; Rochester, NY
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:49:27 GMT



Eric Boyd writes:
>
>Have you halted the 'towers' stories?  Will we see a new installment anytime
>soon?

  AAARRGH!  ;-)

  Yes, I have been working on the last chapter, but between being busy
  lately, and the story running fairly slowly (the DM has been a bit slow
  on getting posts out the last few weeks), I've had a real hard time on
  getting this chapter done.  However, I AM working on it, and it should
  be ready "Real Soon". ;-)

  I figured that people would be wondering what happened to the story, but I
  still didn't want to rush it.  Better be late than just slap something
  together.

  It IS comming......



--
Chuck Tryon
    bilbo@bisco.kodak.com                                 B. Baggins
    <<Kodak pays me to write systems, not opinions!>>     At Your Service
 ____________________________________________________________________
   Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: covin@tartarus.uchicago.edu (David Covin)
Subject: Re: SR: Blood 'n guts games
Organization: University of Chicago Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:34:17 GMT

In article <BrssH8.BHL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:


   jerry@teetot.acusd.edu (Jerry Stratton) writes:


   >Here's a question for Mage/shaman players. Do you find spell locks at all
   >useful for keeping spells on yourself? I thought about having a spell
   >(Oxygenate) locked on my latest character, but I couldn't think of a
   >reasonable way to protect myself against spell grounding. I mean, as
   >near as I can tell from the  rules, anyone with a spell lock is a
   >sitting duck for astral mages/shamans.

   There is no real way to protect yourself against spell grounding. However,
   when you are going at IMP REACTION +4, few other mages get the 
   chance. *sigh* I'd like to see that spell lock get fried. Maybe an
   ambush, oh GM-who-reads-r.g.f.m?

   Axly

Heh.  In my first-ever run in a Shadowrun game, playing a
combat-oriented hermetic street mage, we wound up protecting some poor
slob from a Mob hit.  The first thing they tried was ritual sorcery
(they had a hair clipping or something...).  The 2 of us mages were
watching astrally, using astral perception; this meant we used our
*physical* initiative when the spell came in and we tried to block it
(on later re-reading of the rules, this may not be right; both players
and the GM were (are) either new to the game or used to playing
non-mages, and fuzzy on the astral cbt rules).  The other mage watched
dumbfounded as, before she ever got an action, I streaked through
astral space, struck the spell, rolled incredibly badly and took a
serious physical wound on its counterattack, dumped back into physical
space, and spent the rest of the combat trying to heal myself. :)

This character has since displayed a consistent ability to screw up
badly before anyone else even has a chance to move...

But as for astral mages grounding fireballs into spell locks... hm.  I
don't think increased reaction will help you deal with the problem,
since what you really need is to know when someone's spotting you
astrally.  I suppose you could make a habit of taking an astral peek
at frequent intervals; I probably would do this anyway if I were a
mage, just to see the astral scenery.

Or you could rely on the fact that as a mage, you can be extremely 
resistant to magic when you have nothing else to do.  Of course, a big
enough ritual sorcery team can still fry you; and your buddies might
not like it if you tend to sprout fireballs at inconvenient times...
But street samurai potentially suffer the same problem: if you have
nasty enough enemies, and they can find you, they could bring massive
force to bear against you.  A spell lock doesn't make you any easier
to find, astrally-- it just means that those who know, when they see
you, will know you for someone to watch.

--
David Covin                           covin@despair.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Subject: Re: Best Super system
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:01:14 GMT

a_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>>>jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
>>>>	The other thing to be careful of is cost ratios. For example, 
>>>>damage generally costs 6pts per d6, whereas defense is 3pts per 1DR. This 
>>>>means that attacks will tend to overwhelm defenses. 
>
>	I agree with Laird here -- you're arguing about point costs, not game
>mechanics. If you want DR to be bought at a 1:1 ratio, go for it. SJG won't
>show up at your gaming session, look over the character sheets, and tear up 
>any that are even slightly unofficial :-)

	I don't see how this is relevant. The point costs are just as much a 
part of the supplement as the mechanics. One can invent new mechanics just as 
easily as one can invent new point costs. 
	Besides which, there are mechanics problems as well - the 'armored 
creampuff' syndrome and defense rolls. 

>	If the point costs don't fit what you want for your campaign, then
>change them. But just because you have a problem doesn't mean that everyone
>else has the same problem, or that others would change things the same way.

	I agree to some extent - different rules are appropriate to different 
campaigns. This does not mean that the choice of rules included in a world-
book is irrelevant. The base rules will reflect a certain type of camapaign 
(which should be explained), and the effects of adding in various optional 
rules should be described. At present, I think that damage-DR-HP-STUN and 
defense rolls have problems in representing both 'four-color' action and 
'street-level' action. 
	I would welcome discussion of what people think of certain point 
costs and how they would change them. I do not think, however, if people 
disagree that no solution is better than any other.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "All the world will be your enemy, Prince with 
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | a Thousand Enemies. And when they catch you, 
Columbia University         | they will kill you."         - Watership Down
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Genres
Date: 30 Jul 92 07:57:04 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:

> Disregarding that - let's say we have a muscle fiber that when given an
> electrical signal contracts to 95% of its length over 0.2 seconds with a very
> large force. Further, let us postulate that it is *much* more efficient to
> make these in larger and longer bundles.
> 
> Now, we can use these fibers to drive a rotary motion - but recall that they
> will get a maximum of 300 rpm's, which is pretty pitiful. ...
> 
> Mechs have a relatively large distance (the length of limbs) over which to
> lay long fibers, and only a few contractions produces a long step.

Use long fibers wrapped in coils or looped through pulleys.  Use levers,
inclined planes, pulleys and gears, etc, to match your source (long, slow pull)
to whatever you need (fast rotary motion, etc).  Our own legs use levers, but
our leg muscles might move us faster and more efficiently (on a relatively
smooth surface) if they drove wheel shafts directly.

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk (was: SR: SRII combat mods)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:15:16 GMT

bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS) writes:


[Mages need to know how to use a gun}


I say:

I don't know about that. They can cast some SERIOUSLY deadly stuff
with an extra six dice on the targetting roll using their magic pool.
If I saw the Shaman fooling around shooting 8S3 bursts at someone,
I'd be annoyed when I know he can do enormous damage with a manabolt.

Guns are nice..but I don't think Mages need them right now. If the system
changes so they aren't as powerful, then maybe they should carry guns.
Until then...make mine Magic.

Axly

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc