HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: OA Abstinence, is measuring your food compulsive?
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:42:06 GMT

rkg@rkg.austin.ibm.com (Richard K. Gebhardt) writes:


On the issue of 'food weighing'...

>judgement from me on your response.  Here is Austin, there seem to be
>two view points within the OA community here:

>1.  Get right with God, work the Steps and you food will take care of
>    itself.  Do food plans if you need to, but the goal seems to
>    be to abandon it when you can.  Your current weight is not as
>    important as how you feel about it.

>2.  Get you food in order first and foremost; use a food plan to do
>    it.  Don't deviate from that no matter what.  Work the Steps and
>    show up for life.  When you reach your goad weight, adjust your
>    food plan to stay there.  



well, I think that the breakdown into the two types actually gets rid
of the 'weighing' issue - it looks more like-


do we attempt to control our food intake or not?

This can be pretty confusing, at least to me : I _can't_ control my food
intake, or I wouldn't _need_ OA -

BUT (I know about Austin - I got sober in Killeen, and was told there 
that any sentence that included the word 'but' doesn't need to be 
finished. So be it. I'm finishing this one 8-)( that is a big step for 
me !8-)BUT,  I say,

I got sober in Alcoholics Anonymous. I was sober for five and a half years
before I found OA. I believe that I was working the steps (I haven't wanted
a drink for the last 2533 days, been busy sponsoring, etc.) and have
enjoyed a relationship with my HP, etc. BUT Until I consciously stopped
compulsize overeating, after identifying my problem in the first step in OA,
my eating problem was not solved.

I have always been a big 'working the steps is enough' type of guy. But
I don't think that it will work for an alky who is still drinking, nor
do I believe that it will work for a compulsive overeater who is still
compulsively overeating ( reference - last page of Step 1 in the 12 and 12)


love and service,

jim p.

-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (crystal)
Subject: Re: Sorry about that... ;<
Keywords: sponsor followup
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 03:13:55 GMT

In <1992Apr17.001213.16505@uc.msc.edu> tbachman@hamline.edu (Toni Bachman) writes:

>In article <1992Apr16.122020.27951@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Steve Salter <ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>>joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap) remarks:
>>
>>>In article <crystal.703126214@glia> crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (crystal) writes:
>>>>I am one of those who used "self will" in my recovery.
>>>>I did NOT use professional help.
>>>>I can't stand the 12-step religions.
>>>
>>>A 12 step program is not a religion and if you had any experience in one
>>>you would know that. SO don't condem anything that you don't know about!!
>>
>>Perhaps crystal does feel as if 12 step programs are "religions". You
>>(and I) don't consider them to be religions but that does not make her
>>opinion invalid.
>>
>>
>>>Recovery from what? Sexual abuse is not recover from an addiction. 
>>
>>Oh, I dunno, it CAN be...personally, I try to stay away from blanket
>>statements like that, Joni.
>>
>>>in those books but guess what I continued to use and use and use. Nothing
>>>helped me until I came to AA. Know with a clear mind  I can read these books
>>>again and maybe get somthing out of them. I too have found out in the last
>>>year that I was sexually abused as a child.  I feel for you having to go
>>>through it alone. I have a support group of people around me. Many who have
>>
>>Different strokes for different folks...hmmmm, did crystal say she
>>went through it "alone"? I thought she just mentioned she didn't do
>>any professional treatments or 12 stepping.
>>
>>>help. I now find that it is the opposite I am a stronger individual if I
>>>ask for help.  The only way that I can learn to my fullest ability is to
>>>ask people to show me how they did it.
>>
>>Through surrender lies the ultimate strength. 
>>
>>Steve

>12-Step groups have been called a religion - I think people need to realize
>that rather than "Religious" they are spiritual.  There is a big difference
>between being spiritual and being religious.

>For instance - some 12-steppers use their groups as God - others use God.
>Now if this is a religion - why doesn't everyone use God??

>I find in my program that my higher power changes throughout the year - this
>is not religion - it is spirituality and thank G** for IT!!




i
Hmmm... I tend to "Thank Bast" for things.  But then, I was once a cat in a
former life... *giggle*

How do I get MY answer at the BOTTOM?  I keep getting right above the last line
of someone else...  *sigh*
 Crystal
   ;>
>Toni
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com (Maurice E. Suhre)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: OA Abstinence, is measuring your food compulsive?
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:29:41 GMT
Organization: TRW, INC.

In article <1992Apr9.180116.28033@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> gebhardt@ausvmq.vnet.ibm.com (Richard K. Gebhardt) writes:
>I've just spent a few minutes reading the latest (March) "Shades of
>Grey" and it has evoked some thoughts for me.  I have long heard the
   What is "Shades of Grey"?
>argument that weighing and measuring your food and committing it
>to you sponsor is just a concession to the obsession. ... That as
>long as I do that, I am still obsessed by food.  

Around here, the *suggestion* is to get a food sponsor and call your
food in for 21 days.  Gives you a chance to substitute behaviors,
surrender, or whatever.  If you need to do it longer, or have to return
to calling in at some later date, so be it.  The food sponsors schedule
call-ins every 15 minutes.  Now it doesn't take 15 minutes to read your
food plan for the day, so you spend some time discussing whatever else
is going on.  That may be where the real benefit is.  I can't say.

There are some who seem to have no idea of what a normal portion is.
For them "weigh and measure" is a necessity.  Whether they will ever
develop a sense of "normal sized portion" or not, I cannot say.

-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
From: amigan@cup.portal.com (R Michael Medwid)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Another Trip Around the Sun
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 23:20:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Today was my birthday.  I spent it with a planning committee for a *A 
retreat coming up next weekend in Santa Cruz.  A friend brought me
out to dinner on Saturday night.  Tonight the committee sang me HBD
and the hostess brought out a birthday mango with candles.  

My feelings have been up and down aroud this, my 31st ride around the
sun.  I was able to hear a few people say "I'm glad you're here"..
and not run or tune it out.  At times at work today (ok ok I didn't
take the day off) I felt this urge to become very serious..to negate 
the friendly wishes, the cards, the flowers.  

It's nice to share this stuff here with folks who may be able to relate..
and to reflect on the love and caring that exists for me..to let it sink ]
in..a little bit by little bit.  There is enough.  Scarcity is a lie..
a myth spawned of isms.  And I am..enough..

-Mike
From: ah@mdcsc.UUCP (Alexander Herrera)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Alcoholics Anonymous copyrights
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:16:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: mdcsc.9204072116.AA12722

Hello all,

I received a complaint about the posting of the book of Alcoholics
Anonymous because of copyright violations. I took this complaint
seriously and called A.A. General Services in New York (212) 870-3400.
I talked to Madilyn J. and got some information about the copyrights on
the second edition of the book Alcoholics Anonymous.

They had placed a copyright on the third edition in the mistaken belief
that it would cover the copyrights for the previous works. The problem
was that they had changed the material in the book. That meant that the
other works were not covered. They eventually lapsed, and went into the
public domain. The third edition is still properly protected.

Madilyn J. told me that although the first and second editions are in
the public domain, the copyrights on the stories are special and are
still covered. This doesn't sound correct to me, but I will take this
seriously until I can verify that the stories are in the public
domain.

I had wanted to print those portions of the second edition that were
different from the third edition, but now I'll have to postpone that
effort. I have decided to post the first portion of the book instead.
When I receive some verification that the stories are in the public
domain, I will continue with the stories.

My apologies to those who wanted to see the end of the story to Rum,
Radio and Rebellion. I can only say that he survives and his wife
decides to stay with him. He credits Alcoholics Anonymous and G-d for
his survival. The man really loved that woman. I don't know how she
felt about him because she doesn't get to speak, but it was a great
story.

Alex Herrera
uunet!mdcsc!ah
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: anon@dabbling.IMW.RI.CMU.EDU (Anonymous)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: anonymity test, please ignore
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:05:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr09.150529.285241
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


I'm just testing an anonymous account so I can participate in this
group without fear of co-workers reading personal details of my
life and recovery.  Thanks,

Anon (I'll think of an appropriate handle)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: Susan.E.Cox@dartmouth.edu (Susan E. Cox)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: RULES....
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:40:50 GMT
 <1992Apr2.123752.10784@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH



> Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (bron) says:
> 
> 
> >Why would these rules exist?  It sounds like fascism to me

I have been recently reading about getting in touch with the
subconcious mind.
The theory is that the subconcious mind understands goals and so you
have to give it firm rules to follow and it will achieve the goals you
want-sort of like programming a computer. 
The most direct link to the emotional center of the brain is through
smell so if you induce certain good smelling stuff that makes you
relax, or feel good about certain memories like a day at the beach or
in a rose garden you can reproduce these smells at home.
I guess I'm getting off track here- I think there is some validity to
breaking the patterns of addiction within the brain cell. I've read
about crack research where the pleasure center of the brain gets
patterned. 
Anyway possibly the rules of the program help the brain take them
in.Like boundaries for the brain cells. 
It must be Monday. Just for today,I will give thanks that I am in
recovery.Serenity.Suz
From: Susan.E.Cox@dartmouth.edu (Susan E. Cox)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:58:07 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Ouch. Joanne, I can definately identify, I've been sick for two weeks,
can't shake this flu bug. I get so stressed out at work but I keep
dragging myself in there. Then yesterday, I decided I'll take my time
like everyone else does; go slow-do tasks as I can. It helped some to
stop pushing myself so hard. 
I read something this morning that really struck me-"whatever you do
that makes you the happiest is a message from your higher self to get
in touch with that inner joyful self and to magnetize only that to
you". It certainly made me think about how I want things to be."If
every person did what truly brought joy for themselves and the person
they're with, the world would change in a day." Now only if I can keep
it that simple.
Hope you have a good weekend.
Serenity and Health.Suz
From: cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Stop drinking step?
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:26:36 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <schmitt.703255699@convex.convex.com> schmitt@convex.com (Herb Schmitt) writes:
>[...] a newcomer [...] asked: "What step do you stop drinking?"

IMNSHO, that's purposely not in the steps.

"To stop drinking" describes an act of will power.

Better question:  "At what step is the desire to drink lifted?"

Answer: "your mileage may vary"
From: ronan@codon3 (Karen Ronan;161 GPBB;x2-0884)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: my sponsor fired me!
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:18:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.sagh3INNt10
Organization: University of California
NNTP-Posting-Host: codon3.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr12.221353.22743@watserv1.waterloo.edu> idfriedm@sunee.waterloo.edu (id friedman) writes:
>you may be working a fine recovery programme in your mind
>But you seem like there is alot of "SELF WILL" still going 
>on 
>Why do you not have a sponsor ?
>Do you really believe you can do it on your own ?

Well, I hope I'm working a fine recovery program in my mind.
That's the only mind I have access to.
And I am not opposed to self-will either.
Yes, I can make it on my own. That's what I desire in my heart.
I am not an island of isolation. I have a social life and I
get help for things, but I cannot be beholden to anyone or
have anyone in my life who claims to know what is best for me.
I do not obey and I do not ask permission. If having a sponsor
involves those things, I'm not in the least bit interested.

-Karen

ronan@codon2.berkeley.edu

"Where the seller of stars, for a penny or two, will sell your
Heart's desire to you."
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (crystal)
Subject: Re: Sorry about that... ;<
Keywords: sponsor followup
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:51:31 GMT

I'm new at this posting stuff...and reply'd by mistake...I've asked the person
to somehow post my general letter back here. I haven't a copy and it was a bit
long.  *sigh*
posting to this net stuff is ugly with virtually no help file... ;<

Cheers!
Crystal
  ;>
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Comments, misc
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:58:48 GMT
Reply-To: uunet!mdcsc!ah
Distribution: alt
Organization: TRW Space & Defense
Originator: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com


============Posting for Alex========================
Summary: The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous reflects your sentiments
exactly. There are many ways to stay sober. If they can do it, our hats
are off to them.

jimb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Jim Bailey) writes:
> Two comments.  First, not wanting to be part of some religious movement
> or being agnostic does not necessarily imply belief that oneself is the
> center of the universe and a need to control everything.  From what I

AA is not a religious movement. However, it helps if you are religious.
It is a spiritual program. You pick your own G-d, even if it is *no*
G-d. It just doesn't qualify as a religion although you may find
individuals who will treat it as such. I suggest avoiding such people of
*any* movement who do this from AA to the ACLU.

> There are those who swear by *A and meetings.  There are others who have
> recovered/changed/... with the help of therapy of one kind or another.
> There are also people who have done it with friends.  Finally, I have met
> people who have quit drinking just by self decision and not replaced it
> with some other problem -- people who needed booze to make it through
> each day, people who had lost jobs because of being drunk, who were
> accustomed to the stench of their own filth because of drinking.  Not
> all paths are for everyone, but if anyone has made it out of the hell
> then they have my respect and support -- no matter what path they did find.

I never thought I would become a Big Book Thumper. G-d help me and all
of you if this comes to pass. Here is a quote from the book Alcoholics
Anonymous.

"If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the
right-about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him.
Heaven knows we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like
other people!"
	Alcoholics Anonymous, second edition, p. 31.
	
Despite this, there is an emphasis in the AA program that cannot be
ignored. There is a method going on in the AA program. You must get on
the AA bandwagon if you are to gain recovery in the AA program. It has
worked well for years this way, and it is consistently better than any
other method including professional therapy. When something is working,
you don't go about trying to fix it.

Some people may not like this approach. They may prefer a different
method. They have an aversion to it because it smacks of religion or
the people are annoying or something. So be it. Try something else.
Remember though that AA is the consistent winner. If someone wants the
best chance of getting sober and escaping an alcoholic death, AA is the
best bet. An individual's milage may vary.

Alex Herrera
uunet!mdcsc!ah
============End Posting for Alex========================
-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: Alcoholics Anonymous copyrights
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:05:21 GMT

ah@mdcsc.UUCP (Alexander Herrera) writes:

<stuff deleted>

>Madilyn J. told me that although the first and second editions are in
>the public domain, the copyrights on the stories are special and are
>still covered. This doesn't sound correct to me, but I will take this
>seriously until I can verify that the stories are in the public
>domain.


Well, Alex, some of those stories came from the Grapevine (set copyright
pages) and that may be why they are still covered...8-)(just a thought ..)

love and service,

jim p.

-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: cowpatti@netcom.com (Patricia Mae Anthony)
Subject: Re: Sponsor followup
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 22:56:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na

In article <8dwjqbd.enigma@netcom.com> enigma@netcom.com (Enigma) writes:
>In article <23683@scorn.sco.COM> joannee@sco.COM (Joanne Eglash) writes:
>
>"Dishonest"?  I don't know, that word makes me a little uncomfortable
>in this context.  I'd rather encourage you to feel good about yourself
>for doing as well as you are.  If you feel strong enough, though, I
>think you'd feel empowered if you called this woman and told her you
>didn't think it would work out for her to be your sponsor, and that
>you've found another sponsor (if it were me, I'd probably add a bunch
>of stuff about not taking it personally, how much I appreciate all
>her efforts, sometimes these things just don't work out, etc., so she
>wouldn't feel any worse than necessary, but then I tend to be a people-
>pleaser).  
>

I think that as all of us have different strengths, it is also ok to let
a person know that you have learned much from them, and that it is time
to work on other areas, and to move on to others who have other
strengths that we can benefit from.  For me, this relieves me of the
"guilt" I might feel about rejecting someone, and leaves them with the
feeling that they have made a valuable contribution to my life, which is
usually true.

Patricia
-- 

@>-`,-->  @>-`,-->  @>-`,-->  @>-`,-->  @>-`,-->  @>-`,-->  @>-`,--> @>-`,-->
          >_,<   Cuando te acuerdes de mi, hechate una copa a mi salud. 
          (oo)   Porque donde quiera que estes, vas a cabar llorando mares.
  ,-------(._.)  Porque no vas a negar, que me llevas muy adentro.
 / |     ||      Y aunque lo quieras a no, sigo siendo tu tormento.
*  ||W--'||      Que le vas a hacer, Corazon?  Que le vas a hacer, Corazon? 
   ~~    ~~      Si te estas muriendo por mi amor?  [Cuco Sanchez]
<--`,-<@  <--`,-<@  <--`,-<@  <--`,-<@  <--`, <@  <--`,-<@  <--`,-<@  <--`,-<@
From: maxwell@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mark Story)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: help?
Date: 13 Apr 92 06:26:04 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1992Apr11.044601.23259@swsrv1.cirr.com> diana@swsrv1.cirr.com (Diana Sparks) writes:
>Mark, I have tried to send you mail, but it has gone into the 
>black-hole-bit-bucket, and your posts aren't working either....
>Not ignoring you,
>
>diana

I got your mail, but it probably doesn't matter anymore.  I am planning (right)
to join a rehab center tomorrow, so I probably will be out for a bit.

But thanks for the thought!

- Mark
From: gcr@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (George Rieck)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:35:04 GMT
Subject: Re: help?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.recovery

Hi Mark,

We are having trouble getting your posts??? I am trying to send some
e-mail too! Maybe since I'm local (in town) we'll have a better link.

But don't stop trying to post!

George
From: vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu (Jack Vinson)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: my sponsor fired me!
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:04:37 GMT
Organization: The University of Pennsylvania


In my experience the sponsors who attempt to control their "pigeons" get
weeded out rather quickly, as evidenced by the original post in this
thread.  The local wisdom in my area said that a sponsor should be someone
who has something that you want.  i.e. They're sober and working some sort
of program.

Controlling people do not have what I am looking for and AA allows the
freedom to pick another sponsor or to have several sponsors at once, if
neccessary. 

I do realize that in my first weeks and months of recovery, I really
didn't know what to look for, but the folks that talked to me and sounded
like they were enjoying themselves were a good start.

Jack Vinson			The Purple Puddle Eater
vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu     vinson@unagi.cis.upenn.edu

Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: Stop drinking step?
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 12:25:26 GMT

rdh@Veritas.COM (Robert Hartman) writes:

>To me, the principles of the program are more important than the exact wording
>in the books and literature.  What's been written is always an attempt to
>express those principles.  But the writings aren't the principles themselves.

Uh, actually, uh, as far as the original book goes, uh, they are (sheepish 8-)!

'the principles *we have set down* are guides to progress' (right after the
steps on page 60 in the Big Book)

"principle (3) a rule or guide establishin conduct, behaviour, or action"
webster's reference

the steps, as stated, _are_ the principles. AA has no 'principles behind
the steps'. 

That's one problem that I have with the OA 12&0 - in the twelfth step, 
it goes off and discusses 'principles behind these steps'.

of course, in order to learn this stuff, one has to actually _read_ the
Big Book (and you know how painful that can be! 8-)'Being certain he wants
to stop, you can go to him with this volume as joyfully as though you had 
struck oil....he is practically sure to read the book...' (pg 113, To
Wives)

love and service,

jim p.


-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
Newsgroups: alt.recovery