From: s0499528@let.rug.nl (R. Dijkhuis)
Subject: Re: Somalia, Liberatarian State + Buenos Aires Police 
Organization: Faculteit der Letteren, Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, NL
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 11:17:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.120558.9708@genie.slhs.udel.edu> starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:
>From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
>Subject: Re: Somalia, Liberatarian State
>Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 12:05:58 GMT
>In article <s0499528.33.0@let.rug.nl> s0499528@let.rug.nl (R. Dijkhuis) writes:
>}In response to my query about Libertarian examples societies cited 
>}as 'pretty close' were Switzerland, Hong Kong and the Netherlands. All of
>}these were quickly refuted, but in theory Libertarianism would be possible 
>}there.
>
>Where was this refutation?  I was the one that proposed those examples, and
>I've missed critique of their applicability.  What was it?

Sorry you missed them. Here's a summary:

Switzerland: has universal conscription for men, job guarantee schemes, laws 
that dictate foreigners living in Switzerland must leave the country every 
so many months and problems with accepting voting rights for women.

Hong Kong: makes lots of money out of import duties, is under the thumb of 
an English colonial government which is battling with the Chinese over 
who controls the state up to the year 1997, when much against the will of 
its citizens it will be given back to China. Has a great number of non-
elected governmental bodies.


The Netherlands: is a welfare state economically. Social tolerance, 
praiseworthy as it is, is on the wane as far as policy-making is concerned.


>In fact, everywhere if there was sufficient public support and the 
>}necessary conditions such as a transitional government, ethnic harmony and a 
>}functioning economy, neither of which Somalia had.
>
>You seem to be saying that such things are preconditions; in fact, it is
>the opposite.  Libertarianism is the precondition to them.  I submit that
>to maintain the opposite is to historically blind.
>

Oh, dear. How to avoid circularty of definition wars on this issue?


How do you suppose Libertarianism can be implemented without ethnic harmony 
and a functioning economy? With the latter I did not mean a perfect economy 
but one that A:exists and B: is not in recession. If social security laws 
were withdrawn during a recession this would lead to a long-term lapse in 
public support even after any beneficial effects to the economy became 
noticeable.

Libertarianism being approved by a popular vote would admittedly be a 
precondition for installing a transitional government, but a transitional 
government is itself a precondition for a succesful implementation of 
Libertarian ideas.

I don't suppose the Libertarian Platform supports abandoning all govenment 
at once, which is what happened in Somalia.



>Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, 
Act Selfishly>starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu
>
>"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
>oneself and others." - Voltaire

PS: re: the thugs in Buenos Aires. In another posting, you asked me where I 
got my information about police officers moonlighting as "law enforcers" 
whose purpose it was to remove street kids from Buenos Aires by murdering 
them from. I'll look that up. I must have got that either from news programs/
investigative documentaries on BBC television or from Amnesty International.

Reinder