HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: first post
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:40:37 GMT

anonymus+845@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu wrote:

: this is my first post to this group.
: I have been reading it for awhile.  I apprectiate
: it being here.

Hi ... and welcome!

: I am just now coming to terms with an abuse that
: happened when I was 6yr-9ys.  I am now almost
: 45, suddenly divorced, kids all grown- an empty
: house- I guess that is why all of a sudden these
: things are really getting to me- I was married
: for 22 yrs-  It is very hard just to "take care
: of myself"

A common problem.  I dated a woman who had been married for 30 years.

: Does anyone else have the problem with relationships
: that I have:   I tend to be very trusting when someone
: starts dating me and after a few dates when sexual 
: relationships start-  I assume that the person must
: care about me and really like me (that's how I justify
: sex- so I won't have to think of it as anything but
: nice) when I find that the man doesn't really seem to
: care all that much (for instance - he is also dating
: and having sex with someone else)  I get very hurt-
: hate myself- think that something is wrong with me
: or the relationship would have worked.

Perhaps the relationship would've worked if you had both seen eye-to-eye on the
monogamy thing, but you didn't.  A difference of opinion's nothing to beat
yourself up over. :)

Perhaps you need to define the relationship up front, when things start to
get "physical".  Your need for monogamy isn't unusual, but you need to spell
this out to him up front.  Just because you "justify" sex (a curious choice
of terms) that way doesn't mean that everyone you date will - some will, some
won't.

Just my $00000.02 :)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: Re: 1st Post
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 21:30:25 GMT

In article <Bv1MDL.F6F@twwells.com> anon-1247@twwells.com writes:
>**********************************SPOILER***************************************
>
>I mean it, this post definately contains some descriptive language.  Please be
>fore-warned.



>
>This is my first post.  I have been reading ASAR for about a year now, but
>this is my first post to hopefully get through.  I haave tried to post before,
>but they allowed him to or not.  The
>whole thing is very disturbing to me now.  It blows apart my self-esteem, and
>makes me feel like dirt.  I was so young, but so was he!  Was I abused, or am
>I responsible for this?  I do not believe that I would have wanted him to do
>that to me, and it disgusts me to even think about it now.  Is my brother
>innocent, because he was so young, or did he abuse me?  Will someone(s) please
>post and tell me what you think.  I really need to know.  It is driving me
>nuts.
>
>CONFUSED
>
>

Hello Confused.  By the spoiler warning vs. the message, I suspect that part
of this message got cut off by your anon server.  Perhaps you put some dashes
in that the anon program read as the beginning of a .sig.

	What I basically want to say is that if an experience has caused
you this much pain, then you were abused.  You were hurt, and the experience
changed your perception of yourself and your sexuality.  most importantly,
it was something you need to heal from.  Part of healing for me has been 
allowing myself to accept my right to be angry simply because i was hurt.  I
used to worry a lot that what happened to me was not abuse because the
first abuse I remember was from a minor.  
	The age of my abuser might be quite relevant if I were suing her
for damages or something, but I'm not.   Her age was not relevant to how
much she hurt me.  She was quite successful in gaining and using power 
over me and manipulating me with fear and with my ever-growing feelings of
shame.

	I have come to a point where I view my abuser somewhat sympathetically
when I look at things from a rational perspective.  I still hate her
though!  I've spent so much of my teen and adult life trying to recover
from what she did to me and the things she told me about myself and about
the world, no amount of understanding about how she was probably abused herself,
quite possibly more violently than I was, will make me feel and less angry
and pained.  

	One thing I have done in therapy is to claim the right to blame
the wrong person, to lie as much as I want to, to blame people I may have
never even met.  Especially with really young memories, I need to feel like
it's okay to talk about things I'm unsure of.  In my healing, I don't need
to be factually right about everything, but I need to feel free to talk
about how I was hurt and feel free to say what I need to say.

Anyway, I hope some of this helps.

Sherri
From: anonasar@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: um, so much for mourning...
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:05:58 GMT
Organization: Bleeding Edge Technologies

X-ANON-Version: 0.5

In article <1992Oct2.143150.13505@netcom.com> enigma@netcom.com (Enigma) writes:
: In article <1992Oct2.005157.22317@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
: >Maybe I'm missing something, but I have to admit that I am stunned and
: >baffled by the almost complete silence to the news of Karla's death
: >other than a one day period of comments of the type "we'll miss you,
: >Karla--e-hugs wherever you happen to be now".  I mean, it's not as if
: >she moved out of state.  Saying nothing isn't enough.
: 
: 
: Well, what do you suggest we say, Steve?  Perhaps you could give us
: lessons.  I'm sorry, but even posting that one-liner was hard for me.
: I'm convinced that no matter what I say, it will be the wrong thing,
: and will really hurt anyone who cared about Karla, and that everyone
: will hate me forever.  This is *not* a rational fear, it's programming
: from my earliest childhood.  Most of us have been brainwashed into
: thinking that it's not okay to talk about anything "real".  And Karla's
: death is very real.
: 
: Of course I wanted to ask if it was suicide (and I am so glad to hear
: that it wasn't).   But as soon as I thought of it, I got the knee-jerk
: reaction "God that's so insensitive, you're such a jerk, Holly, don't you
: know better than to ask a question that may upset someone..."  That same
: programming told me I should say "I'm so sorry, I wish I knew what to say"
: and then shut up.  It's not pleasant to realize that my programming is
: still inside me, but it appears to be the case.  I intend to work on it.

What *did* happen to Karla, anyway - how did she die?

Some have very different views on death - I view death as a happy time for
the person involved, for they are free of earthly constraints and fears.
--
To post to this newsgroup anonymously, send mail to khijol!anonasar@saturn.upl.com
To make sure you can reach the server, send mail to khijol!ping@saturn.upl.com
   with a valid "Reply-To:" header.
To reach the admin for this service, send mail to erc@apple.com
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: Re: Karla Marie Alwan, wonderful person (was Re: um, so much for mourning)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:49:41 GMT

In article <Oct.4.11.16.40.1992.6857@pilot.njin.net> vickie@pilot.njin.net (Vickie Mapes) writes:
>I didn't know her at all and I've never even read any of her posts (I've
>only just subscribed) but reading your memorial to her I cried. You 
>*both* are very wonderful people, and were lucky to find each other.
>
>(I say "are" because Karla will live on in your heart, and the hearts 
>of everyone who knew her. She's now in my heart because of you. Thank you.) 
>
>vickie

Thanks, vickie.  I've mainly talked about Karla's death in email and to
some friends who understand what asar means to me.  I wanted to post
something about how I feel, but couldn't do it early on and couldn't do
it in response to a message that triggered feelings for me about being
asked to express my feelings (reminded me of my perp-grandfathers funeral,
I guess).  Your message has made me cry more than perhaps any of the
posts, and I thank you.

I've been posting on asar since last January or February, I think.  (Probably
posting since late Feb and reading in Jan).  I've only met three people
in person from asar, and Karla was one of them.  When we did meet, I had
no idea what to say ("so, how's the healing going?")  She was with Scott,
and they were obviously very excited about spending the weekend together.
I can still see the way they held hands with fingers interlaced.

We got to know each other more in email when she asked for someone to talk
about some issues with.  One thing we never really talked about much was
her desire to do something about child abuse.  One of my dreams is to one
day facilitate collaborative arts projects by survivors.  I always thought
I would be able to mail Karla about it when my ideas were more developed.  
The suggestion that some of us donate money in her name to an organization
whose goal is to prevent child abuse was a beautiful one, but each time I
read it I felt very sad and somewhat angry, because somewhere in my mind I
had the idea that I would start my own organisation with Karla and I think
we're both to young and too full of longing to have any options
taken away from us.

Karla was certainly a part of my life.  At the same time, the fact that
our connections were mainly electronic, I feel like I somehow didn't really
know her even though she was very important to me.  Because of this, I find
it quite difficult to grieve over her death since I have such a hard time
explaining her relationship to me.  This is somewhat similar to the way
I feel when one of the people I make meal deliveries too get sicker or dies
(I'm a volunteer with an AIDS service organisation).  Karla and I shared
much more of our lives with each other though, even though there was less
time spent together physically.

Karla, I send you lots of ehugs, just like I always do when I send you
a message...

Sherri




I guess).
From: julio@sigma.hep.upenn.edu (Julio Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery,alt.sex.bondage,alt.personals,alt.personals.ads,alt.personals.bondage,alt.personals.poly,alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: Important ACS update (godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu)
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:06:05 GMT
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I agree with Suki. Not everybody is a computer wizzard and everyone is
panaroid about some computer mishap that could reveal their identities.
 May be a warning would be better with killing after three felonies
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julio , U of Penn, Philadelphia 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Anyone like me?
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:08:13 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <1a517qINN12n@arwen.hal.com>, phanes@hal.COM (Pamela D. Hanes)
writes:
>
>  I have been reading this newsgroup since its beginning.  I posted one
>  of the first articles here, and since have been pretty much reading,
>  occassionally posting anonymously, and responding personally to some
>  posters.
>  The reason for my "silence" generally revolves around my not feeling
>  as if I fit into the group of "regular" posters.  It's odd, because I
>  feel a close kinship at some level, and yet, I find myself wondering
>  if I am the only one like me here on this group.
>  There are a lot of good things coming out of what is being discussed 
>  and shared here, but, well...
>
>  I guess what I am wondering is if there is still a place for me here?  
>  Are there others like me reading this group? and can we really make a
>  contribution to this link?

There is a place here for everyone who needs or wants a place.  Even for idiots
like *ME*, which I don't quite understand...  (But I understood that a place
was open for me, when I saw people mentioning me in other posts.)

Anyone and everyone can really make a contribution to this link.

+--------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
|Krikket              | krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us | USnail: 3 Danada Sq. E. !
|a.k.a Doug Krick     |NOTICE: Your Milage May Vary|   Suite 246             !
|Data # 708/665-9732  | #include<std.disclaimers>  |   Wheaton, Il 60187     !
+--------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
|                What God wants, God gets, God help us all!                  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: ******SPOILT HER*****
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:07:40 GMT

In article <krikket.9259@meltdown.chi.il.us> krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:
>...  You are extremely stong for making it to where you are.  Hopefully
>one day, I'll gain the same strength.  I'm breaking under what must be a
>fraction of the weight...

If you want to become a weight lifter, you don't start with trying to
bench-press 100 pounds.  You start with the 5 pound hand weights.  
Don't worry, you'll be stronger later.  :)

Holly
-- 
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)
From: aatresa@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: great sadness
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:28:00 GMT
Organization: Yeah, *right* !
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <BvJ31t.CqM.2@cs.cmu.edu>, anonymus+322@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu (poohbear) writes...
> 
> 
>i think it is ok to post flammable material.  i think it is ok for
>others to ignite it.  isn't it understood that we all care about
>each other, or at least about the process of getting better?
> 

I agree with you.  Some people don't have the comfort level to read it, I 
know.  But one of the thoughts in CTH that I *really* liked was talking 
about intimacy.  One of the survivors quoted said that they thought the 
ultimate intimacy was when you were willing to angry with someone without 
thinking that would destroy your friendship and love.
It's something I'm working on actively with several of my friends.  Instead 
of giving in to their opinions, I am saying "I don't agree with you".  And, 
guess what?  None of them has been so offended they've dumped me!  Wow!!
I even asked one of them if we could agree to disagree, and he said "OK"!  
Everyone always *talks* about agreeing to disagree, but it never has 
worked in *my* life.  It did this time.

>i'm sorry if this sounds super granola-fruity "let's all love
>each other."  i just think maybe we should get less caught
>up in being permanently upset with each other or with asar on 
>the whole.

Exactly.  Loving each other does not mean always seeing eye to eye.  And 
*all* of us IMHO must be willing to see when others disagree with us and 
try to find out why.  If for some reason we're misunderstood, we need to 
clear up the misunderstanding.
For me, this is much easier in ASAR, since it's not real-time and I can 
think before I act.  My affirmation for last week (Courage Cards) was "I 
have the courage and presence of mind to think before I act."  It couldn't 
have come at a better time!
In person, I tend to get confused and dissociate during conflict, except 
with specific people.  On ASAR, for some reason (probably because I've not 
met you in person) I can maintain a better control.  
We are *not* going to always agree on ASAR.  None of us have the same 
experience.  Take, for instance, the "I hate women" thread.  A lot of women 
felt scared by that.  And my little girl wanted revenge by starting an "all 
men are abusers" thread.  I didn't.  I didn't and don't agree with the over
-generalization that that implies.  Some people do.  So, we disagree.  Is 
that fatal?
I prefer to learn the lesson of communication in ASAR and take that lesson 
to real-time situations.  And I thank you for helping me to do that.

Gentleness to all
-- Teresa

		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Sleep vs. Dreams
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:48:53 GMT

 (SCG107@psuvm.psu.edu) wrote:

: So maybe the only reason I'm falling asleep at night is because I'm so tired
: bythe time I go to bed?
: 
: Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions, they would be appreciated greatly.

Suki (blaze@westmark.Stanford.EDU) wrote:

: If all else fails....  A friend just recommended to me a homeopathic
: medicine (I don't like taking sleeping pills) that he swears is excellent.
: It's called Chamomilla (30X) and it is for sleeplessness and irritability.
: You should be able to find it in any local health store.  Good luck

It's also marketed as Chamomile tea.  Celestial Seasonings puts out a tea
called "Sleepytime" that has chamomile in it - it puts me out like a light :)
BTW, chamomile is good for soothing nerves, relaxing you, and helping you
sleep.  *Much* better than Sominex... <yuck>
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: for those considering Final
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:44:41 GMT

Poohbear, thanks for running this....it was a very precise analysis
of what's (at best) dubious about a lot of New Age thought.

Even if things can get easy, sometimes it takes a lot of hard work
to get to that point.

Nancy Lebovitz

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: blaze@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Suki)
Subject: Re: Strange Realizations!
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:50:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.183433.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fsacp@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>Hi all,
>  I'm in the process of filling out an intake survey for my therapist, we had
>done 1 when I first started with her, but then last Wednesday I mentioned to
>her that my parents are alcoholics and so am I. 
>   Well I was looking at the questions and they have everything from describe
>your first sexual experience to how often do you masturbate and what do you
>fantacize about?
>  I haven't filled in the first experience part, it was abuse I know that much,
>I'm kinda scared to answer that one.

	Remember, there is no law that says you have to fill out ever single
question on those things.  They are survey's, not legal documents.  If something
doesn't feel right you have the right to skip it.  If it is really a 
problem bring it up with your therapist.

>  When I got to the part about the
>fantacizing I put down that I fantacize about my abuse.  As sick as that
>sounds, it's true.  I was telling my husband this and he said to me "You left
>the abuse physically but you haven't left it emotionally!
>
>What I was wondering was if anyone else has experienced this!

	Well, since I'm still haven't regained my memories I can't say I
have specific fantasies about what happened, but I can tell you it is
not sick, it is NORMAL!  (Whatever normal is)  Fantasizing about the 
abuse is a safe way to recreate the scene in a space where you have 
control.  The feeling of being out of control in a fantasy is safe.

	Anyone who wanders into Alt.sex.bondage knows that I am a very
active member of that group.  And I've been there for a long time.  
Long enough to tell you that at least 65% of the people there have some
type of childhood issues they have dealt with, or are dealing
with.  I've seen people core dump about their experiences with being
sexually abused as a child a number of times.  And now they hang
out in the bondage group.  Because it is a safe outlet.  One that you
are in control.  It's the society that doesn't try to understand,
in my opinion that labels those fantasies as sick.

>Send me E-mail or put a post up on here if you have or else just send some
>support, I'm trying to admit to myself and educate myself on Codependence,
>because Art told me that he's afraid that if I don't start getting better with
>the co-dependence, he's going to leave me and take Aaron with him!
>I'm pretty scared right now!
>Jay
>
	No offense, but that doesn't sounds like a very positive way 
to deal with co-dependednce.  For the most part, correct me if I'm 
wrong, co-dependence is caused by insecurity and fear.  Maybe you
could try talking to Art and suggest to him that you are really trying,
but when he says things like that it makes you feel worse.....

Good luck...

		-Suki


-- 
	>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Suki<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
		    blaze@westmark.stanford.edu  or
		 anonymus+284@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu.
From: Laurie Mann
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Thanks, thoughts & requests
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:03:49 GMT
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

Goldberry writes
>I got some warm feedback from cloister bell and Lydia.  Thank's,
>both of you, it means a LOT.  I was (and partly still am) quite
>uneasy about reappearing in asar - what if I am not welcome
>anymore (considered a traitor for being away so long or something
>like that)?  If anyone else feels (s)he is willing and able to
>give me a pat on the back (e-pat?)  or a welcoming e-hug, it
>really would help in dealing with my fears of rejection and
>abandonment.  Please?  (uh how I hate asking...)

E-hugs et all., Goldberry.  I've been keeping a pretty
low profile here over the last few months.  I'm really
exhausted in a way that defies much participation here.
I don't view myself (or you, for that matter) as a traitor
for taking care of other business (or not).

*  NeXT: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com * GEnie:  Laurie.Mann  *
**** Bush or Perot, Just say NO! **  Vote for CHANGE in 1992!****
***** "Hollywood still doesn't get it." Dan Quayle, 9/21/92 *****
* "No Dan, YOU still don't get it."  American Voters, Fall 1992 *
From: aw@sei.cmu.edu (Anne Wulffraat)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: To the anon-flamer
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:04:00 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute


If you are the individual posting flames under the safety of anonymity, please
read this. I tried to mail it to you, but you're evidently not accepting what
is rightfully yours.

Everyone else feel free to go to the next post.






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your hypocrisy is overwhelming. 

I've never seen such a calculated attack on specific individuals in my life.

We cannot hope to grow and learn if we are forced to accept everything
everyone posts. Gavin and Suki both responded because they disagreed with Ed.
They feel that cult abuse is a problem perhaps more prevalent than Ed
realized. Neither of them resorted to name-calling, which is a great deal more
than can be said for either you or Ed.

Until you have gained a level of moral stability, your high-horse is a
dangerous position. I suggest you get off it and try being a little less
abusive and a little more supportive. If you have a problem with specific
individuals, why don't you address it to them individually instead of passing
judgement on them publicly from the safety of your anonymity?

Disgustedly,

-Anne