From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Subject: Re: What is Sex to God?
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:27:22 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Aug19.215631.18865@coopsol.com> gordons@coopsol.com writes:

> <1992Aug18.124519.25933@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) said:
> ><1992Aug17.172854.6645@coopsol.com> gordons@coopsol.com writes:

     [bible verses deleted]

> >> >  I read it thusly:  One could not become a disciple without first being
> >> >prepared to give up all that he had, "counting the cost."  It is not a
> >> >simple command to "hate your parents." It was a very honest observation
> >> >that following him was not going to be any kind of cakewalk.
> >> 
> >> In your opinion, with your liberal interpretation.  Not only does he
> >> explicitely tell you to hate your family, but he also commands that you
> >> give up all that you own.  Note that he didn't qualify that statement by
> >> saying "give up the things that you like better than me".  He said "ALL".
> >> 
> >> If you don't hate your family, and you continue to own possesions YOU
> >> CANNOT FOLLOW CHRIST, by his own words.  Many Christians twist his words
> >> so that they can get away with owning things.  Tsk, tsk.
> >> Gordon
> >
> >  Gordon, you obviously know nothing about having a flair for the dramatic.
> 
> Really?

  Well, you display none here.  Perhaps I was too harsh.  You only understand
having a flair for the dramatic when it suits your arguments.

> 
> >Perhaps you should explain why your interpretation is any better than mine--
> 
> *Mine* isn't an interpretation, yours is.  All I did was quote his words
> in context.  You're the one who feels the need to draw all sorts of
> unwarrented conclusions from his simple commands.

  Deny all you like, but what you and I have both done is make an interpreta-
tion.  Are you familiar with the Charge of The Light Brigade?  The commander
of the brigade received an order to charge "the guns".  The order referred
to a small battery over a hill.  However, the brigade commander could not
see the small battery, only a much larger one down the valley.  But the
orders were "clear".  He charged the wrong guns and got cut to pieces.  The
command was simple, clear--and incomplete.

  My conclusions are not unwarranted in light of his other words--yours are.
I've read the rest of the orders.

> >all I see is two people reading what they want to see.  You take the absololute
> >literal words (and if we were to do that all the time, we'd never get anything
> >done--remember the "duck" example?), without concern for lots of other things
> >he said.  
> 
> He said many things (including that he came here to bring a sword, to put
> father against son, mother against daughter).  But in this case he 
> specifically tells you that you must *hate* you parents if you are to 
> follow him.

  And goes on to qualify that with three examples of how one must be prepared
to count the cost of their actions.  You really love to take things literally 
when it suits you, you know that?  Just like I do not always take things 
literally because it does not suit me.


> >          Christians are also told to love their enemies, forgive them, turn 
> >the other cheek, and hate sin, not the sinner--commands at odds with your
> >interpretation.  
> 
> Nope.  I made no interpretation.  You did.
> Gordon

  Sorry, Gordon.  It was.  You decided what he meant by those words.  It is an
interpretation.  And you did not answer my implied question.  How can one do
all those things I mentioned above *and* hate thier parents?  They are at odds.
They are in direct conflict.  Therefore, one thing is *not* a command, but mere
hyperbole used to prove a point.  Which do you think it is, something that is
mentioned once or twice, or words repeated over and over?

semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
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