From: jive@spanky.ssc.gov (Jim Ivey)
Subject: Re: SB vs 6 Captains
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:05:57 GMT


     I wasn't going to post about that night, since it seemed quite obvious
what the result was, and I didn't imagine anyone would dispute it.  Silly
me.  I'll hold all the vulgarity to just 'shit' and 'crap' for the younger
readers...


In article <8ePY4kO00awN4EHUYU@andrew.cmu.edu> rw2g+@andrew.cmu.edu 
 (Richard Weinstein) goes off the deep end, writing:

>    Words from the victim:
>  Actually, I didn't feel I was playing that well, but was still surviving
>  most of their waves. In fact, I survived all of their waves. Twice I
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     Complete bullshit.  You died.  Period.  Over and over again.  Never
made it past the second wave.

>  was killed by a lone survivor of the wave who would slow to warp 0 and
                        ^^^^^^^^
     Survivor of what?  The wave?  Yeah... i.e. The wave killed you.

>  snipe me while pulling me off the repair planet. I couln't do much 
>  about it because you can't kill 6 people in under 10 seconds without
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     I'd like to quote you on this from now on.  It reads as an sb won't
live against 6 people that hit the base within a span of ten seconds.

>  weapon temping. And once I was killed on the way to vega because
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     Because it was the first run and we didn't know we were supposed
to let you go to the repair planet in the corner.  We assumed that since
the challenge was against a starbase at his home planet, that it would
be sufficient.

>  they wouldn't wait. I survived the first wave, but couldn't get to the
>  repair planet in time for the next wave.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     Earth is a repair planet, if you didn't notice.  Instead, you chose
to run to Vega for the distance.  A bad choice.  After we killed you the
first time, we decided to allow you to start at Vega, which was also a
repair planet, and for the clueless out there, it's further away, in the
corner.

>  In general, they did a pretty good job of ogging. They would uncloak
>  together mostly, which is the most crutial part of base ogging. You can't
>  kill two people at once who uncloak together at different angles. So, it
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     In other words, you're screwed when six uncloak at the same time.  See
the first quote I mentioned in the article.

>  was a little too good an ogg anyway. I don't think you're going to get
>  a non-cluefull ogg by asking for it on the newsgroup. You'll get at least
>  one wise captain who tells his team to uncloak together and go in at 
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     So all Captains are so stupid that they can't figure this out.  What
the hell do you want, Captains from needmore?

>  different angles and organizes them in general.
>  now, for the whining, excuses, laying the blame, denying the facts, etc...

>  Excerpts from rec.games.netrek: 22-Jul-92 Re: SB vs 6 Captains 
>  William Thang Katz@mtaac (1962)
>  # Second, we iced him consistently in two waves or less.  If it took 2
>  # waves,
>  # only 2 of the oggers were needed before he went BOOM.  

>  I flatly deny this. The second wave killed me ONCE, when I said "wait til

     Again, this is a flat-out lie.  Period.  He never lived past the
second wave.

>  I get to vega" and the first wave went after me anyway. I was halfway to

     I don't remember you saying this.  If you did, I didn't care at the
time, because the scenario was 'base on his home planet'.  Once we realized
how much of a joke the whole thing was, and how easy it was to kill you, we
decided to give you a break and let you start from veg.

>  veg, so was hosed. Had to get all the way there before I could repair.
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     Could've just repaired on Earth.

>  Other than that, I never died in the middle of a wave. I never got killed
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     B.S.  The second waves usually consisted of the first two people
slamming into you and blowing you up, and the other four wandering around
aimlessly while you resurrected.  Our only faux-pas during all of this was
one clueless person who (once) immediately went after you again.  We called
him off, backed away, and let you go to Veg.
     
>  by the first wave ever. As I said, I died twice from a lone straggler from 
>  the second wave while wtemped.

     This did happen a couple times (though all the others were complete
massacres).  I maintain that this 'straggler' is part of the wave.  If we
had been more organized, he wouldn't have even been involved in the wave,
just sitting back to harass you and keep you from repairing.

>  Also, it pissed me off at the time that the stragglers would kill me,
>  but looking back I guess it's only fair. I didn't kill them. Also, with
>  only 7 or 8 people in the game, moriarty was very fast paced. That favors
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     The only reason we went back to moriarty was because the CMU weenies
were complaining that lag was too bad elsewhere.  I was personally getting
10% packet loss to moriarty.  But we went back anyway, and still kicked
your ass every time.

>  the oggers. I need to get Bert to slow down the ticks per second.  :)
>  I'd like to plead lag, but I had none. Despite the ugly rumors of moriarty
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     Interesting, since as I said earlier mine was atrocious.  Nice to know
that the factors were weighted toward you as heavily as possible, and you
still lost every time.

>  being lag central station, I've never had a problem there, except when the
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     No shit...  rw2g+@andrew.cmu.edu.  It certainly helps to be in the
same school, even though not on the same subnet.  Try it from a decent
distance.  

>  cs gateway was hosed.

>  Anyway, Rob has thrown down the gauntlet, and he's a much better base 
>  than me. But actually, he doesn't play a base much anymore so he's not
>  in top Spaceace form. I wish Craig were around, he'd put you uppity
>  captains back in your place.  :)

     I seriously doubt it.  So he's the "best".  It still doesn't change
the fact that he's 1) Alone, 2) The attackers have all the time they want
to organize, and 3) They can leave someone behind to keep him from
repairing.

>  --Rick
>  Ensign Unkillable SB   (moriarty)
          ^^^^^^^^^^
     Not bloody likely.  No one is Unkillable when they're alone against an
number of waves by 6 Captains.  Period.  And the other night proved that
you're not even close.

>  soon-to-be-discovery-Admiral-and-worried-about-the-database-merge-because-
>  my-ratings-on-bronco-suck-so-I'm-quad-DI-Commodore Videodrome

     Blech... I think I'll just reset my stats again on both.  Makes it
easier to ogg, when you're an Ensign.


     I really wish I had seen a smiley or a just kidding somewhere in this
message.  It's such complete crap that I have a hard time believing the
author is at all serious.  But then I remember a number of stupid comments
from that night like 'If we were on moriarty' or 'Just five of you?  You
don't stand a chance'...  Yeah, right.
     If this was a joke, and I've completely missed it, then I'll apologize
right here and now.  If it's not, well, let's just say I'll be glad to
prove it again anytime.  Though I expect next time you'll want me to fly to
Austria and log in from there, in the hopes that the lag might possibly be
worse.

     Jim / FillInTheBlank / Pizza
Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA