HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Subject: Re: IGI (Re: another question)
Organization: CompuData Inc.
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 21:10:38 GMT
Keywords: bavaria ansbach

lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson) writes:

>The primary purpose of the IGI (despite the name) is to catalog LDS
>  sealing husband to wife

>All but the last are contingent on simply existing.  A birth or
>christening record will justify performing these.  The last requires a
>marriage record.

Ok, I found Carl Leopold Haemmerer under the 'exact' search and got 16 of them 
in all of Germany. These were split between Prussia and Wuertemberg. (I was 
looking for Bavarian ones which exist but don't show) 

The above happens to be the only person I've ever found that is part of my 
genealogy and is also in the IGI. So I picked him from the list on the screen 
and get the following wonderfulness:

*******************************************************
Name
Sex
Event: 	marriage
	1874
	St Marien Roemisch-Katholische, Ahaus, Westfalen, Prussia
Spouse: Sophia Franke

LDS Ordinances
	Sealed to Spouse: 11 June 1980 OK

********************************************************

Luckliy I know all about him and his children but what does the above tell me 
if I didn't?

Do I now write to that church and get specifics (copy of marriage record)? 
How do I find just where they got the above data? And what's this sealed in 
June '80 business? Has somebody in the LDS an interest or connection to this 
person?


Fred

>As such, you might find a marriage entry and get a date and location
>from it, but the original church register showed the participants ages,
>location of birth and names of parents.

Yes, and how do I get to it? I saw no batch numbers or other connection to any 
kind of microfilm or did I miss something somewhere?
Fred

Searching:
Aertken,Barlage,Behne,Bonin,Feldhuchs,Franke,Ha"mmerer(Ham..,Haem..)
	Robiller,Rump,Schagemann,Vogel,Wilkes (Mostly from North Germany)


-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
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Date:         Sat, 26 Dec 1992 22:09:27 -0600
Reply-To:     Marilyn Brien <brien@TENET.EDU>
From:         Marilyn Brien <brien@TENET.EDU>
Comments: To: ROOTS-L@vm1.nodak.edu

list database
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: Royalty GedCom and GEDCOM program
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:09:14 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

holloway@ESSEX.STFX.CA writes:

>Concerning the message about the availability of the Royalty GEDCOM files,

>I assume to view these, one must first have acquired the GEDCOM program.
>DOes anyone one know where I could do so?

>Therefore I rushed out and got a copy of Brothers Keeper (5.1) which
>was being hyped at the time.  My first shock was to find nothing in
>the documentation on IMPORTING files.

Steve, to add to what Tom W. said, perhaps you may be unduly confused by the 
name GEDCOM. I was too. Everybody goes thru this learning curve at one time or 
another.

BK does have importing capability. The trouble is you must have the data lined 
up in some understandable way. That way is a pseudo data interchange standard 
called GEDCOM. As Tom said, most genealogical programs talk input & output via 
gedcom. If Family Ties does not, it is a major flaw and a big reason to dump 
it. 

As for the Royalty files that are available in Gedcom mode - that is so that 
you may import those files into your favorite genealogical software system. 
But why would you want to do that? Are there any indications of noble lines in 
your background that you wish to further identify? 

The vast majority of us are descendents of the ordinary rabble that roamed
this earth and had very little to do with the handful of noble savages among
us. Once we get back to our European lines we are lucky to find even the 
tiniest shred of info about who most likely were our serf ancestors.

Fred
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Subject: Re: Library bashing??
Organization: CompuData Inc.
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 22:13:02 GMT

cjt1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Charles Ten Brink) writes:

>I have deleted.)  I have neither the time nor the inclination to set you
>or the other library bashers straight on some of the more bizarre ideas
>you have about libraries, for the simple reason that I see no duty to
>educate someone from the ground up about the varying missions of libraries,
>the complexities of bibliographic control, and our duty to the public (which
>you and others seem to quaintly define as "letting me have what I want
>regardless of its potential impact on others.")

We seem to have hit someone's hot button here.  I.e.  'I'm the expert here and
don't you dare criticism anything I do.'

I guess this is typical of the problem we have in certain circles. Folks are 
doing such a fine and commendable job that only very well thought out
panegyrics will make them go away - eventually. In the meantime we are 
supposed to stay in our place and don't bother anybody.



>The original post was a sterling example of this: "Please let me take a
>valuable and irreplaceable glass-plate negative out of the library so that
>I can experiment with it."  I get requests every day from people who want
>to photocopy rare books.  Of *course* they will be careful, and there may
>be a 95% probability that the book will be fine.  What do you suggest I
>do about that 5% on the down side?  Just say the hell with it?
>I think the historical society person (surely not a librarian) who let
>the negative go was a fool.

I believe it was Bob Weir of Arizona State who asked to borrow a piece of
etched photographic glass for scientific testing of recording of the same.
Even the most obscure and worthless one in the back of the stacks would have 
done the job.  I would hardly call such a request an everyday occurrence.  The
problem we face here is the one of 'omnipotence of the librarian'.  If any
librarian should ever destroy anything, we would obviously have to eradicate
the whole lot of them.  As they are perfect and this can never happen,
everybody else is delegated to the 5% (in Ter Brink's estimate) category which
by magic expands into 100% so that nobody ever gets to borrow anything.

I thinking person would not be a fool if he/she makes a judgement call as to 
what can leave and what can't and with whom. A fool or an automaton would fall 
back upon rules of the road so that surely there is no chance of anybody ever 
criticizing a decision.  None had to be made - and oh what a relief that was.
It is the kind of stuff bureaucrats are made of. Surely there is a manager in 
the making here.

>--Chuck Ten Brink
>D'Angelo Law Library "The dogmas of the quiet past are

Fred
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: wiggins@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (Don Wiggins)
Subject: Official Documents
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 14:25:49 GMT

I should probably know this, but thought I'd ask anyway.  Over the years
I've requested copies of death certificates and always received a photocopy
of the original.  However I recently requested a copy of a birth certificate
from the state of Indiana, and (three months later) received a newly typed,
notarized version.  While it did confirm the date and place of birth, it didn't
show the mother's maiden name or any other information that often appears 
on birth certificates.

Does anyone know if most states will send you a copy of the original if you
specifically ask for it?  If so, are the charges usually the same as for an
official version?
 ========================================================================
 |             Don Wiggins     wiggins@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu              |
 |----------------------------------------------------------------------|
 |Researching WIGGINS, STALEY, HALL, BIRKHIMER, MCINTIRE, STEPHENSON,   |
 |REED, COWDEN, ELSON, ALBIN, JENKINS, GREENTREE, PREBLE, TEAGARDEN,    |
 |HUNLEY, (and for my wife): CHANCE, PARK, MUNRO, BRANDON, DIETRICH     |
 ========================================================================
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Date:         Sat, 26 Dec 1992 10:03:42 -0500
Reply-To:     ac853@medina.freenet.edu
From:         "Harry D. Liggett" <ac853@MEDINA.FREENET.EDU>
Subject:      ST. CLAIR, IL, HELP
Comments: To: Roots-L@vm1.nodak.edu

I am seeking information on three sisters of Margaret PRESTON
who married Thomas BILDERBACK and lived in Washington County,PA.
until their deaths in 1830.  The three sisters all moved to
Kaskaskia or St. Clair County, IL. One sister married a Thomas
QUICK, another married Thomas ROBERTS and the third married a
SAMPLE or SEMPLE.  I would appreciate any help on this.
   Harry Liggett, 544 N.Firestone Blvd., Akron, OH 44301
   Surnames: LIGGETT, BILDERBACK, COUCH, COTTER, DENNING, GOURLEY,
   HAMILTON, PENN and STACKHOUSE


--
Harry Liggett in Akron, OH. ac853@Medina.Freenet.edu.
Fidonet address: 1:157/100.13
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Monday, 21 Dec 1992 19:55:54 MST
From: Dan Wilson <ATDYW@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: FirstSearch IP address

Well, I just tried FSEARCH for the second time and got a
message to the effect that either password or authorization code
or both were wrong. I double checked them and re-entered several times
with the same effect. I go in a couple of days ago with no problem,
but not since. Has FSEARCH changed it's password or authorization code?
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Date:         Thu, 24 Dec 1992 08:50:27 -0800
Reply-To:     Frieda Davison <fdavison@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU>
From:         Frieda Davison <fdavison@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      Holidays
Comments: To: roots-l@vm1.nodak.edu

Just a quick note to the net -- Our campus shuts down from noon today
until 4 January.  Thus, I will not be online with anything or anyone during
that time.  Hope everyone has a safe and blessed holiday.

Frieda Davison
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Samford University Computer Services
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 11:02:35 CST
Reply-To:     THE GAR <GLWARNER@SAMFORD.BITNET>
From:         THE GAR <GLWARNER@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Cincinnati OHIO Holiday Searching...

I am off for Christmas in just a few more hours!

If anyone wants to put together a well-formed query for me to
look at while I am in the Hamilton County Library (Cinci, OH)
let me know by end of business today and I will do my best
to look it up for you.  I hope to spend at LEAST one day there
while I am on holiday.  I'll be back January 2nd, so please be
patient.

First come, First Served (and btw, *I* am first!   8-)


 /++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\
!  Later        +   Systems Programmer                                 !
!  Gary Warner  +   Samford University Computer Services               !
!               +   II TIMOTHY 2:15                                    !
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Organization: Genesis Public Access Minix
X-Mailer: W-MAIL 3.63/MINIX (11/05/90)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Sun, 3 Jan 1993 11:29:52 LCL
Reply-To:     elizabeth hamm <bhamm%genesis.uucp@GTE.COM>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was bhamm@GENESIS.NRED.MA.US
From:         elizabeth hamm <bhamm%genesis.uucp@GTE.COM>
Subject:      help/ adoptee search/ Calif rules
Comments: To: roots-l@vm1.nodak.edu

Hi, everyone. I hope you all had a wonderful Holiday Season and are looking
forward to a brighter '93 (than '92 at least). I don't get to interface
with this group as much as last year...which is 'not better' but I feel
very thankful I can at least read the postings a week or so later and
make some contacts a little at a time.

On to my request. I am posting this for a friend who is just getting started
in this great endeavor and her husband is adopted. They know his birth mother's
name and where she was born. (California..I dont have th specifics, they do)
He wants no contact with her (although could if necessary) but he would like
to obtain a copy of her birth record so he could research her (his) ancestors.

What is needed to do this? She is still alive.

Thank you, in advance   for your assistance.
                                Beth Hamm
                        bhamm@genesis.nred.ma.us
From: lincoln@rand.org (Tom Lincoln)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: (no subject given)
Date: 23 Dec 92 02:12:38 GMT
Organization: RAND

In article <ROOTS-L%92122218523884@VM1.NODAK.EDU> CERPDS@UKCC.UKY.EDU writes:
>HELP!
>
>I have come to a dead end on a surname. Can anyone help me?
>I'm looking for any leads on ODAH.
>The info I have thus far is  Andrew Wilson  married Mahala ODAH Aug 7, 1834.
>I have found no other ODAH's. I would appreciate andy help.
>
Melvyl finds.....

1.
Author: Costa, Odah Regina Guimaraes.
Title:  Acao empresarial do barao do Serro Azul / Odah Regina Guimaraes
Costa. Curitiba : Grafipar, 1981.
Description:81 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.

Series: Estudos paranaenses ; 2.

Notes:  Bibliography: p. 75-79.

Subjects:   Serro Azul, Ildefonso Pereira Correia, barao do, 1845-1894.
Businessmen -- Brazil -- Parana (State) -- Biography.
Tea trade -- Brazil -- Parana (State) -- History.
Mate (Tea) industry -- Brazil -- Parana (State) -- History.
Lumber trade -- Brazil -- Parana (State) -- History.
Parana (Brazil : State) -- History.

Call numbers:   UCLAURL F 2537 S46 C67 1981
2.
Author: Costa, Odah Regina Guimaraes.
Title:  Arquivo da Paroquia de Campo Largo da Piedade [por Odah Regina
Guimaraes Costa e Maria Ignes Mancini De Boni]. Curitiba,
Universidade Federal do Parana, Instituto de Ciencias Humanas,
Departamento de Historia, 1972.
Description:56 p. 23 cm.

Series: Boletim da Universidade Federal do Parana, Instituto de Ciencias
Humanas, Departmento de Historia, no. 17.

Notes:  Includes bibliographical references.

Subjects:   Registers of births, etc. -- Campo Largo, Brazil --
Bibliography.
Campo Largo, Brazil -- History -- Sources -- Bibliography.

Other entries: Boni, Maria Ignes Mancini de, joint author.
Universidade Federal do Parana. Departamento de Historia
Boletim, no. 17.

Call numbers:   UCLAURL F 2501 C927 no.17

4.
Author: Omer, Dan.
Title:  Odah le-Sha'ul : shalosh po'emot dokumentariyot / Dan 'Omer ;
'im hakdamah me-et Pinhas Sadeh. Tel-Aviv, c1980.
Description:96 p. : ill. ; 16 cm.

Series: Sifriyat prozah 'itonsifrut ; 12.

Subjects:   Tchernichowsky, Saul, 1875-1943 -- Poetry.

Call numbers:   SRLFA 0009964677 Type EXP SRLF for loan details.

..... which is not much help... could be Portugese...
any chance that it might be Sephardic?

Oh for a shot at FirstSearch!!

Tom

    o
   < ' .
   / >
  '  `
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Date:         Sat, 2 Jan 1993 21:01:22 -0600
Reply-To:     Carmen Antoine <carmena@TENET.EDU>
From:         Carmen Antoine <carmena@TENET.EDU>
Subject:      Dolly Madison's Family followup
Comments: To: ROOTS <ROOTS-L@VM1.NoDak.EDU>

We received a list of the children in Dolly Madison's family.

1) Lucy m. George Steptoe Washington

2) Anna m. Richard Cutts

3) John, Jr. m. (unknown)
        one daughter Anna m. Dr. Thomas Miller
        other children ??

Judging by the dates, Agatha M. Dunlap would have to be the grandchild of
one of these three people. She was born in Missouri (1860 Census) in 1829.

If anyone has any information regarding these three families, we would
appreciate any assistance.

Thanks--


Terry Antoine
Stephenville, TX
From: mfc@medoc.aux.apple.com (Matt Caprile)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: What's MELVYL? [was: wow! (Re: FirstSearch)]
Keywords: MELVYL, Libraries
Date: 23 Dec 92 02:35:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: A/UX Group, Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec20.134521.2851@compu.com> fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home) writes:
>Are we saying that MELVYL and SUTRO are synonymous?

I hope not. MELVYL is the computerized index of the holdings of the
University of Calif, and the Calif State University. (both have several
campuses. I think that UofC has 9 campuses, and CSU has about 20). From
the "logon banner" of MELVYL:

    As of 12/22/92, approximately 7,046,741 titles representing
    13,687,500 holdings for materials in the University of
    California libraries and the California State Library.

--

  --- Matthew Caprile    || Hey, I only speak for myself ! Even I  ---
  ---                    || won't admit to the opinions expressed  ---
  --- caprile@apple.com  || here, so don't expect my employer to.  ---
Xref: sparky soc.roots:8803 soc.culture.czecho-slovak:588
From: aa581@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sandra Rozhon)
Newsgroups: soc.roots,soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Anglisizing Czech Names, Question
Date: 3 Jan 1993 21:06:24 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa581@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sandra Rozhon)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, berkovej@cgsvax.claremont.edu () says:

>I understand that there is no accepted Anglisized name for Vaclav.  Is this
>true?  My father's birth certificate shows his name as Vaclav but he was James
>for his whole life.  Is this a common Anglisized name for Vaclav?
>
>My Grandfather's English name was John.  I have heard that both Jan and Honza
>are anglisized to John.  Is this true?
>
>If anyone can help me with this, it would be much appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>James Berkovec
>
>Researching BERKOVEC, TUMA, UHIR (Czechoslovakia/Austria -1800's); ROCHON,
>RONDEAU (Canada,Chicago - 1800's/1900's)
>



The U.S. Dept. of Justice publishes a book called "Foreign Versions, Variations
and Diminutives of English Names" which lists name equivalents for
Bulgarian, Czech, Slovak, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Estonian, Finnish,
Italian, Latvian, Polish, Portuguese, Rumanian, Russian, Servian, Croatian,
Slovenian, Swedish, Norwegian, Ukranian, Yiddish, and Spanish.

Vaclav is the equivalent of Wenceslaus.  Nonetheless, a relative of ours also
was called James all his life despite being a Vaclav.


-- 
|~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~|
|  O  | Sandra Rozhon                   aa581@cleveland.freenet.edu|  O  |
|     | Personalized Computer Support                (216) 631-7838|     |
|  O  |  > Tutoring, training, hardware & software installations < |  O  |
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 08:19:49 -0800
Reply-To:     Frieda Davison <fdavison@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU>
From:         Frieda Davison <fdavison@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Library bashing??
Comments: To: Matt Caprile <mfc@medoc.aux.apple.com>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list ROOTS-L <ROOTS-L@vm1.nodak.edu>

On Wed, 23 Dec 1992, Matt Caprile wrote:

> Frieda Davison <fdavison@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU> writes:
> >It costs an average of $2 to $10 just to get one item accessible online.
>
> Why? Does it cost that much to buy use of a record for a title from a
> subscription service?

For current bibliographic services, no, it doesn't cost that much.  But
much of what is not online are old (pre-1965 -- new definition of old?)
and there are no "online" bibliographic services, or what is online is very
primitive.  By primitive I mean old terminology and very broad subject
headings -- like Aeroplanes instead of Airplanes.  Library of Congress
did not change that heading until the 1970's!  There is also "local"
information which may or may not be unique to the individual library --
like the call number.  The old adage in library school was to give the
same book to 3 different catalogers and you would come up with 3 different
call numbers.  Anyway, the good news is that as more and more libraries
take the plunge and put these old titles on national systems like OCLC or
RLIN, the easier and cheaper it is for other to do it.  Those first ones
just have to find the money.  For instance, we here at San Francisco
State University just finished a grant whereby we cataloged "online" all
of one of our special collections which is a collection of early children's
books -- some as early as the 1700's.  This accomplishes a lot of different
goals and will have far-reaching impacts on a variety of scholars in a
variety of fields.  This gives the world cataloging information about these
books (our "hit rate" on the national system was only about 60% which means
that 40% were not in the database AT ALL).  It also lets scholars and
researchers know worldwide where they can find these items.  We expect this
collection to be used for the first time in fields such as reading,
children's studies, education (which you might expect) but also psychology,
multicultural studies, history, etc.  Now I realize this is NOT genealogy
but was just trying to give an example of the type of project that funding
agencies MAY fund.

Frieda Davison
Newsgroups: soc.roots