HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: david@ariane.cam.org (David Lebel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: REAL FALCON 030 SPECS
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:36:01 GMT
Organization: Ariane Development Group (aka. SilverBox Development Group)
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <92275.231743DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu> DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

[...]
> for a hard drive setup, but dismal for floppy use. 2.0 is slightly better
> than earlier versions in this regard (at least a real CLI is in ROM), but
> still leaves rather basic commands like DIR in C:. Note: I'm not
> complaining. Anyone without an HD _today_ deserves misery.

   have you ever played with a PeeCee w/o an HD? It sucks. Same thing hold
true for the Amiga, or ANY SERIOUS computer. This whole thread is a plain
joke.

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                David Lebel      ///  Let me hear you                      |
|   Ariane Development Group     ///   Make decisions                       |
|       david@ariane.cam.org    ///    Without your television              |
|    lebeld@jsp.umontreal.ca \\X//     Let me hear you speaking just for me |
|  (514) 343-6532 ext. 44644  \X/               - Martin Gore, Depeche Mode |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: Hans_Bergengren@p1.thulos.bbs.bad.se (Hans Bergengren)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 Flaws?
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:45:21 GMT
Reply-To: Hans_Bergengren@p1.thulos.bbs.bad.se (Hans Bergengren)
Organization: THULOS!, STROMSTAD, SWEDEN
OD-Comment-To: Jayson_Phillips


 JP> >What the hell flaw does the A4000 have?
 JP> Compared to the Falcon at 1/3 the cost:
 JP>     - no SCSI
 JP>     - no DSP
 JP>     - no 16-bit sound
 JP>     - no MIDI
 JP>     - no network port

True. But the A4000 kick butt on other key points:


Expansion slots. Amiga native (Zorro 2/3), IBM ISA and video.

FASTER! CPU, try around eight times... And including MMU.

Mucho moro memory. 6 megs as standard, compared to 1 meg. Expandable to well
over one gig. Hell, should be adequate for most of us, won't it? :-D

More colours. 24-bit palette, and HAM8, giving us over 810000 colours
on-screen. That's even more than the total Falcon palette! (Hawhaw!)

Greater resolutions, 640 *a960 (+ overscan), and 1440 *a660 (overscanned),
either in HAM8, or 256 colours. Nice, eh?

Great SUPPORTED OS. Lots of features, easy to use, fast and stable..


 JP> In general:
 JP>     - a new graphic standard with no smooth upgrade for current Amiga
 JP>  owners

You CAN'T have it! I bashed the A4000 in c.s.a.hardware a while ago, but I
didn't complain about not being able to upgrade my A500 from '87 to AGA +
040, because I know that progress is not compatible with upgradeability in
the long run. (Just look at IBM clowns, and you'll understand! :)
Do you complain at your car dealer about not being offered an 'upgrade path'
to the '93 model with metallic finish, 250 hp engine w/ turbo and 24 valves?
No, probably not. So don't complain about this either, because if it's not
possible, then it just isn't possible!

 JP>     - too little too late

True. That is why I bashed it a while ago. But it's the best thing we've got
AND I WANT ONE NOW!


 Regards.

  InterNET/BadNET: Hans_Bergengren@p1.thulos.bbs.bad.se (92:901/603.1)
          FidoNET: Hogen BBS, 2:203/511.7@fidonet
   /  /
  /--/
 /  /B - No Mr. Nice-Guy Anymore...

--- Point Manager 3.00 Beta Unreg.
From: Ace@auilcs0.UUCP (James Knowlton)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why A3000 Owners Are Mad
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 12 Oct 92 12:00:36 PST
Organization: Alternate Reality Video Graphics

In article <1992Oct11.165828.18575@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:

> The biggest constraint with upgrading the A3000 to A4000 capabilities is
> certainly not the hardware, but rather the software. High performance video
> graphics coprocessors (Resolver, Domino, EGS, Visiona etc.) are becoming
> increasingly more prevalent, economical and arguably offer more than the
> AGA chipset. It is not AGA which is the liability of the A3000, but rather
> RTG. Had 3.0 incorporated device independent graphics, this discussion would
> be moot.

Exactly!  With RTG/DIG the 3000 can easily have a display to put AGA to shame.
And considering that as long as C= doesn't try to limit it to 4000+ machines
(at least the 3000 and hopefully everything below) there could easily be a
tremendous new user base, which means more development etc. etc....


> They have. The current A3000 promotional pricing is $1499 US. Add a PP&S
> A3000 '040 accelerator for $829 and you're only a marginal step away from
> the A4000. Throw in a Domino card for $450 and you have a high-resolution
> display.

Yep, besides the 4000 comes with a 25mhz 040, and the 33mhz has been available
for a long time.  (40mhz 50mhz 60mhz, when???)  Yes, and considering that high
resolution displays are becoming fairly common, you should be able to get some
extrememly powerful cards for less money.


> This would have only restricted the capabilities of future platforms. What
> does the AGA chipset offer that couldn't be accomplished with a Zorro III
> card and RTG? Nothing.

(da Da DA - music :)  Now if only C= has a good implementation, you know,
something worthy of an amiga :)


> When CBM releases RTG, it will foster competition among
O
O04artarta
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: READ THIS AMIGANS, FALCON 030 SPECS
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Sc
From: g.coulter@daresbury.ac.uk (Gaz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Amigas(not 4000)?
Date: 16 Oct 92 08:29:08 GMT
Reply-To: g.coulter@daresbury.ac.uk
Organization: Daresbury Laboratory, UK

Gerald writes:

->I must agree with this.  Although I was quite impressed with the A4000
->when its price was announced, it does not represent a big step in the
->Amiga line.  The AGA chips do offer an amazing color standard, but much
->better graphics are available for the Amiga.  The new chips should really
->have provided better resolutions as well--1024x768, for example.  The IDE
->harddrive in the A4000 is not the best drive, nor is the 040 the fastest.
->I saw an add for an 040 accelerator that is faster than 33MHz.  No doubt
->the chip is being pushed past its rating, but the A4000 is only 25MHz.
->(I am not exactly complaining--a 25MHz 040 is no couch potato.)
 
Gary writes:

I agree the Amiga4000 is very impressive, especially when you consider the 
price. Much better graphics are available on the Amiga but look at the price
Commodore have to find a middle of the road solution. When you compare an out
of the box A2000 or A3000 to an out of the box A4000 it is clear the machine
design is a significant improvement. Like now it is possible to upgrade a
A3000 to the spec of a 4000, in the not to distant future it will be possible
to upgrade the 4000 even further leaving the 3000 behind.

Fitting Alpha chips, DSP,s and an inbuilt toaster plus 1024X1024 resolutions
would make the amiga a lot better, but think of the price!!!!!!!

Gary....

Amiga the creative tool..... for those who know the difference.    Me(92)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: freire2a@serss0 (Angel Freire)
Subject: CBM "Suggestion Box"
Organization: Florida International University, Miami
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:46:57 GMT

Can anyone please tell me what is the email address of the Commodore
"Suggestion Box"?   thanx...

Angel Freire
Florida International University
freire2a@serss0.fiu.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.hardware,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: jazz@netcom.com (David C. Navas)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: A-MaxII+ ?
Date: 10 Oct 92 09:39:12 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <2qvzazm@rpi.edu> danaf@rpi.edu writes:
>Sorry, no colors, none of the cool things that make the Mac II's into Mac II's.
>Only Emplant is able to emulate second-generation MACs.

And as no one has a review of the thing yet, no one knows how well.
The NeXT has a fairly good "emulator" as well....

>In all seriousness, you probably can use QuickTime in the same way Mac Classics
>can... which may be not at all, may be in B&W only at like 1 frame every 10
>seconds... I just don't know.

I believe that QuickTime on a 68000 is not possible as it has been created with
68020-only code.  I'm not 100% positive on that, though.

>Buy an Amiga and screw the emulation altogether, if you wanna do VIDEO!!

I'd have to agree.  So do the majority of folks who are doing video (from the
figures I've seen).

-- 
David Navas                                   	jazz@netcom.com
Co-author of: Web Data Acq. and Anal.		dnavas@oracle.com
Upcoming products: Shadow V, Jazzbench 2.0.
From: martin@Chemeng.Ed.Ac.Uk (Martin Spenceley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Persuade me to buy a new Amiga.
Date: 12 Oct 92 11:25:03 GMT
Reply-To: martin@Chemeng.Ed.Ac.Uk
Organization: Edinburgh University Chemical Engineering Department.
Originator: martin@wick


I bought an Amiga A1000 back in 1987, and am now in a position to
upgrade.

The problem is I cannot get the software I want for the Amiga. Can
anyone help answering these questions?

1) FINAL COPY II - The advertisments claim they allow Math Support.
		   Is this Mathematical equations support or allowing
		   the user to add 1+1 within the WP?
1a) FC II        - Does it allow indexing, Table of Contexts,
Cross-Referencing
		   Footers, Headers.

1b) If NO to 1 & 1a Do any WP allow provide these features?

2) C++           - I write in C++ on my SUN at work and find a debugger
invaluable.
		   Do any of the C++ compilers support a debugger?  Are
		   there any C++ classes for the Amiga libraries?

3) UNIX          - Can I get Commodore's SVR4 UNIX for my Amiga (I'm in 
                   the U.K)
		   How much is it?  What commerical software is a
		   available for it?  Is Sun's XVIEW toolkit available?
		   Are there any toolkit builders?  Is it a dead duck?

4) Games         - I have seen images of Falcon 3 (for the PC) with its smooth
                   surface terrain. (Gouraud Shaded?) Do any flight simulators support
		   this type of rendering on the A3000?

5) AMax II       - If I cannot get C++ or a decent WP. I could always
                   emulate a Mac.
		   How stable is it the emulator for software development?

On a final note:

I wish Commodore would license NeXTStep or Solaris for the Amiga this
would certainly provide better penetration into the high-end of the
market. It would not be too difficult to port these OS's. It would
certainly allow me to stay with the Amiga.

Thanks for any advice,


Martin




                   
-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Martin W. Spenceley                        Telephone 031 650 5891         
    Department of Chemical Engineering         Email M.W.Spenceley@uk.ac.ed   
    Edinburgh University                       or    martin@uk.ac.ed.chemeng  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: edcrwfrd@unlv.edu (Edward Crawford)
Subject: Re: A-MaxII+ ?
Organization: UNLV
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 01:10:59 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.212531.9492@klaava.Helsinki.FI> lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
>root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>
>: The Classic has had the shortest lifetime of any Apple system so far, except
>: for the Lisa.
>
>And except for Apple I and Apple III?
>

And what about the Quadra 900.. that was a real short life time, and
im positive the Q900 had a shorter lifetime than the classic.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:03:05 EDT
From: <DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000 & HYPE! -Reply to Jerry Shekkel
 <1992Oct8.005804.2564@newshost.unh.edu>

In article <1992Oct8.005804.2564@newshost.unh.edu>, ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory
G Greene) says:

>>There's no question that the Amiga has great hardware support for MODs;
>>the proof is in the fact that it can play them with virtually no CPU load,
>>something that the unassisted DACs of most PC sound boards cannot do.
>>However, as in all areas, PC's are improving in the area of sound.  For about
>>$140, you can now get a wavetable synthesis sound card for the PC.  This has
>>the mixing and resampling hardware necessary to play MODs without the aid of
>>the CPU, as well as 16-bit samples, 44.1KHz sampling rate, on-board RAM for
>>storing samples, and *32* channels (16 panning voices in stereo).

>        Sounds like you're describing the Gravis Ultrasound to me, was it
>   ever released?

It was just released. Read comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcards.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000: My Two Cents Worth
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 06:39:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.181504.16932@u.washington.edu>, loomis@stein.u.washington.edu (Elaine Loomis) writes:
|> danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.) writes:
|> >even consider trading up to the A4000.. I'm sure it's more trouble than it's
|> >worth. I don't even think the A500 owners should rush out and buy one... give
|> >it a little look, first. Maybe the A1000 owner (yeah, you, buddy!) should get
|> >one, but everyone else may benefit from waiting.
|> 
|> >-- 
|> >/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
|> >(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
|> >=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
|> >--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
|> >	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
|> 
|> I am a (an?) A1000 owner -- and even I am waiting. Adding 2.5 mb memory and a 
|> 85 mb hard drive -- for virtually nothing -- has made my venerable machine just
|> fine for my purposes (games for the kids, telecommunication for the hubby, word
|> processing and dbms stuff for all of us). It's <<AMAZING>> what you can do with
|> older technology when the ol' budget crunch forces you to! (our money is going 
|> into the education of our kids). Yes, I yearned for a new, faster, better Amiga
|> when the '3000 came out, and <<almost>> powered up. Thanks for your mini-reviews,
|> fellas! (and now I shall read on...)

Look! A female! And she doesn't think I'm a total weenie-head!

Married, of course, but I'm not Catholic.... 8)

"So, Elaine, where have you been all my clock cycles?"

9)

|> 								:-) EL
|> 

-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
From: david@ariane.cam.org (David Lebel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000(Not 3.0Mill. Amigas,the new number is 4.5Mio)
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:54:48 GMT
Organization: Ariane Development Group (aka. SilverBox Development Group)
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <9746@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com> peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany) writes:

> Uh, you're wrong. There are indeed a load of different number formats.
> Let's take the above number plus decimals:
> 4,500,000.00   US
> 4.500.000,00   Germany
> 4'500'000,00   Switzerland

   And
  4 500 000,00   Canada-french.

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                David Lebel      ///  Let me hear you                      |
|   Ariane Development Group     ///   Make decisions                       |
|       david@ariane.cam.org    ///    Without your television              |
|    lebeld@jsp.umontreal.ca \\X//     Let me hear you speaking just for me |
|  (514) 343-6532 ext. 44644  \X/               - Martin Gore, Depeche Mode |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 Flaws?
Date: 14 Oct 92 06:29:51 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <jayson.03vf@tbag.tscs.com> jayson@tbag.tscs.com (Jayson Phillips) writes:
>  
> Compared to the Falcon at 1/3 the cost:
>     - no SCSI

does the falcon have real SCSI built-in, or just the
pseudo-SCSI DMA bus like the ST machines?

>     - no DSP
>     - no 16-bit sound
>     - no MIDI

Amigas do MIDI with a cheap adapter cable...

>     - no network port

What networking is provided by this "networking port"
and is it complete or do you have to buy some kind of
adapter?

> Compared to the A3000 at 1/2 the cost:

>     - no SCSI

add-in available now, better promised.

>     - no de-interlacer

add-in equivalent to a3000 available now.

does the falcon have a de-interlacer?  Can it display screens
from programs written to ST conventions simutaneously with
those that take advantage of the new capabilities?

> In general:
>     - a new graphic standard with no smooth upgrade for current Amiga owners

rather debatable, since it is compatible with existing software and
a fairly linear and rational extension to the existing capabilities.

>     - too little too late

debatable, but a little more a lot later would hardly
be better, would it?

Is the Falcon shipping yet?

> I  owned  an A1000 for five years and have owned an A3000 for 1.5 years.  I
> love  Amigas.   But  the  A4000 is not that much of an upgrade for an A3000
> owner.   Certainly not worth putting out yet another $3200.  If you want to
> upgrade from an A500 or plan to buy your first Amiga than it's probably the
> way to go.  Actually, IMHO, an A3000 for $1500 is a good way to go too.

Sounds like a fair assessment.  It really depends on how much you lust after
those extra colors.  But, if you think about it, you'll realize that the
really important thing is to make the machine attractive to new customers or
the large user base of A1000/A500/A2000 Amiga users that might be ready for
an upgrade.  Teasing the existing A3000 owners into upgrading will sell some
additional machines, but many will find that machine adequate to their
current needs or feel that the new machine isn't a large enough increment
to justify upgrading.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Flame against Amiga software writers
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:15:17 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Michael van Elst (mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de) wrote:
:
: >ARRRRRGH! So do they trust us LESS than PClone users? When piracy in the
: >PClone world is nearly five times as bad as in the Amiga world? It makes
: >you want to start heaving bricks through people's windows.
: 
: It isn't a matter of trust. It is a matter of acceptance and a matter of
: weather you can make profit without protection. With so many clone users
: pirating is probably not a problem.
: 

You're right, it certainly isn't a matter of trust.   I think it's a matter
of what they can get away with.  All of these companies would just love to
use on-disk copy protection.  It's easier to implement than code wheels, etc.
But they wouldn't sell a single copy of a PC product that had on-disk copy
protection, and that's not true for Amiga products.

:
: Michael van Elst
:
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: etxansk@garbo.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: CDTV vs CD-I, Crap CD-I Golf on Show
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:34:20 GMT
Organization: Ericsson
Originator: etxansk@garbod20


 I case you're interested, I visited an entertainment fair in
Sweden recently, and someone was displaying a Philips CD-I
machine there. Unfortunately there were no Philips spokesmen
present, but a golf game was running and it looked...
...crap!

 Bad frame update (25/30 Hz or worse) and pale colour made
me think the CDTV might be able to compete.

 Anyway, the CD-I golf game was _very_ disappointing.

 Anders Skelander
From: simon@ivem.uucp (Simon Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: COMMODORE - HERE'S A CLUE
Date: 14 Oct 1992 20:27:56 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu

In article <OA92-901-306p1_964826C3@piraya.bad.se> Hans_Bergengren@p1.thulos.bbs.bad.se (Hans Bergengren) writes:
>
> GR> > Hey! As far as I have understood, the DSP is NOT needed for Audio
> GR> > output (even 16-bit stereo, or maybe 8-channels).
>     < ... >
> GR> From the description of the "audio matrix" it sounds like some analog
> GR> multiplexing of the audio signals.
>     < ... >
> GR> but the DSP is probably the only on that can generate 16-bit audio.
>
>Some people here in this newsgroup seems to claim that a DSP is the only
>component capable of producing CD-quality 16-bit audio. This makes me wonder:
>how come then that almost (99.9%) every CD player does NOT feature a DSP? And
>then - the CD players that DO feature a DSP, only use it to add more
>athmosphere to the sound!

I though they used the DSP to do real-time mixing of the many different
channels of audio data.  From what I gathered, all you need is a 16bit DAC
to output 16 bit audio.  Give it a stream of 16 bit data and off you go!
The DSP is used to handle multiple channels of data fast enough to feed it
to the DAC without a noticeble lag time in output.  But then again, you could
use the 040 to do the same mathamatics.

-- 
*   Simon Lee              *   Microscopy and Imaging Resource          *
*   simon@ivem.ucsd.edu    *   Intermediate Voltage Electron Microscopy *
*   sulee@ucsd.edu         *   UC San Diego, Dept. of Neuroscience      *
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