From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Lock picking (not smithing)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:29:27 GMT

kosmatoo@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Kosmatos Odisseas) writes:
: (real-life question for readers of this group at the very end of all this talk)
: 
: It really annoys me to think that any moron can learn to pick locks
: and then turn into a thief and enter into my house, or anyone elses, and
: steal things, without breaking the door down. Are there not locks that you
: locksmiths cannot pick without having the 'key'? And would they cost a small
: fortune to buy?  If not, then it pains me to think that nobody has come up
: with a cheap, non-pickable (under ~48 hours hard work) lock.

Now, just how many burglaries have you heard of where someone picked the
locks? That should answer your question.

It is so much easier to force entry, that burglars do not bother with lock
picking - it takes too long. 

I always get a kick out of people who install a $150 lock in a $50 hollow
core door.

: I realise that one can 'claim' a lock cannot be picked, but that a clever
: locksmith (like some here probably are) may find a way to open it, but you'd
: think it can be proved otherwise.

There are a number of locks that are just about impossible to pick. However,
as I posted above, it does not make your house any more secure. You are better
off getting a lock that cannot be yanked or wrenched - and install a door that
cannot be opened by just kicking it a couple of times. Even then, five minutes
with a Porta-power will open just about any door.

: Maybe I should leave math and start thinking up a lock you people cannot open,
: based on different techniques than 'keyhole locks'. (where you can stick in
: your lockpicks in the iinternal workings). It should'nt be hard, if one aims
: for a lock that when you loose the 'key', you're shafted.

"Keyhole locks" that are just about impossible to pick already exist. Trying
to invent another would be a waste of time.

: What got me worried about this whole locksmith issue is that we have a house
: in Greece and it uses simple key locks, sold everywhere, nothing fancy. Next
: door lives a lady which used to be a locksmith. She offered to us, that if
: we ever got locked out, just to ask her and she would open it for us.

Nothing wrong with that. Be sure to make use of her services, if you do lock
yourself out.

: Its like, to that neighbor, our house HAS NO LOCKS. and to anyone else
: proficient in picking locks.

I hate to disallusion you, but to a burglar, your house HAS NO LOCKS, even
if he/she is does not know how to pick locks.

: That's fine and dandy, but it got me thinking. One could probably learn the
: theory and principles of 'picking locks' (One wouldn't have to spend much
: time reading irrelevant issues on what REAL locksmiths have to know, because
: I do realise that locksmithing is not simply 'picking locks') and practice
: and in a month of practicing, make it seem as if the locks on our homes
: are open. Its like having no lock.

Nope, not that easy. In a month, you will learn how to pick some of the
easier locks - some of the time. It takes years of practice to get good.

: Don't try to tell me there is a locksmith 'guild' and one must "swear" to
: obey certain rules, etc. This is the information age and I bet it is not
: hard to get the information you need.

Sure - it is trivial. However, most people do not have any interest in
misusing the information. Locksmiths don't have to swear anything - there
are plenty of laws that will take care of those who misuse their knowledge.

: Its as if the lock on our front door is only there to prevent 'passers-by'
: from entering on a whim. The locks do not really keep anyone who wants to
: (and has a few minutes on their hands) from getting in.

Exactly. Locks have always existed to keep the honest people honest. They
never have been meant to keep the serious housebreaker out. To believe
otherwise is foolish.

: The 'lock-picking' aspect of locksmithing sucks. Example: those traitor
: padlock companies that give out combination lists based on serial numbers,
: etc. That's despicable. (selling a lock to one person, the combination
: to anyone who asks for it...).

Why is it dispicable.  For one thing, the books are expensive. Second, they
are valid references for a locksmith.  Would you rather that the locksmith
destroyed your expensive lock - because he could not look up the combination.

... delided ...

: I'm not looking for Flames, actually, what would be nice is some reassurance
: because I'm one hell of a paranoid person (I came to that conclusion after
: re-reading this post)

OK - here is some reassurance. If your house is broken into, the chances are
almost zero that it will be because the person picked the lock on your door.
The person will force entry instead.

: Now, to make this message the least bit constructive, can someone suggest
: a lock, in the price range of about $40 u.s. that will give a locksmith
: a very hard time to open, uses a key, and takes me less than ~5 sec. to open
: when I use it with my key?

Your worries, as I have stated, are in the wrong area. Worry about how hard
it is to defeat the lock by methods other than picking. It will be much more
productive. 

Bill