HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Koran
Date: 21 Nov 92 10:18:25 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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Leo,

    I was happy to read your post on the Koran.  Generally I am in agreement
with your opinions.  Certainly the Koran is holy to the Muslim however.  In
fact, very recently in Pakistan a convert from Islam to Christianity died in
prison (under questionable circumstances) after having been arrested for
writing notes in a copy of the Koran.  Muslim's here in S.A. are taught not
to carry the Koran lower than the waist.  It is a book set appart within the
Islamic world like no other book.  Muslim apologists take delight in also
pointing out that the Koran doesn't use "bad words and phrases" like the
Bible does...they think that the Koran is much more "holy" than the Bible is
in this respect as well.
    Also, go check - I don't think the Koran says that Jesus wasn't crucified
or killed by the Jews, although that is the orthodox interpretation.  The
actual wording is very vague and may allow that Christ Jesus was crucified,
although not put to death by man (Christian workers among Muslims have often
made much of this).
    Like you say, there are some good things in the Koran.  For example,
there is a verse that mentions Christians and says, >Surely they that believe
and those of Jewery, and the Christians, and those Sabaeans, whoso believes
in God and the last day, and works righteousness -- their wage awaits them with
their Lord, and no fear shall be on them....< (II:55)
    Generally, the prophet of the Muslims seems to have brought revelations
quite favorable to Christianity and the Christians in the early part of his
prophetic experience, while later, towards the end, he becomes more and more
negative in his forthtelling when it concerns the Christians.
    There are some really good books on this for those of you who might be
interested.  We as Christians don't need to start the Christian Muslim dialogue
out of a historical vacum.  There has been Christian/Muslim contact since the
beginning of the prophet of the Muslim's movement.  We need to be aware of
what has already been said.
    Certainly having the "Bible" in Arabic would have been nice.  But there
were plenty of Arab Christians in spite of its absence.  Simon the Stylite
was an Arab Christian for example.  He used to preach to the bedoin from
his pillar.  Christianity was also widespread along the Eastern coast of the
Arabian peninsula at the time of the prophet.  In fact, recently there have
been some archaeological finds here in the Eastern Province where houses have
the cross imprinted in the adobe beside their doors.
    Well, that's it for now.  Peace in Christ, zane.
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Date:         Sun, 22 Nov 1992 21:39:57 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      What a relief, David Grey

What a relief!  We learned that it was _ another _ David Grey
with a drinking problem  who shot himself this morning.

Still, the prayers are not " wasted " (as if they ever were!).
David I'm sure still needs prayer for spiritual and emotional
healing, and continual physical healing from his addictions.

Mark
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Via:      UK.AC.SOLENT; 18 NOV 92 14:33:37 GMT
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Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:14:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      RE: Polemic?

If Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (1975 ed.) defines polemic thus:

1) polemic n [F (MF) polemique, controversial, fr. Gk polmikos, warlike,
hostile, fr. polemos, war; akin to OE ealfolo, baleful, Gk pallein,
to brandish] 1a: an aggressive attack on or refutation of the opinions
or principles of another  b: the art or practice of disputation
or controversy -- usu. pl. but sing. or pl. in constr.  2: an
aggressive controversialist : DISPUTANT

2) polemic or polemical adj. 1: of, relating to, or being a polemic :
CONTROVERSIAL  2: engaged in or addicted to polemics : DISPUTATIOUS

and,

polemize vt: to engage in controversy : dispute aggressively

(and, baleful adj 1: deadly or pernicious in influence  2: foreboding
evil : OMINOUS, syn. SINISTER)

As has been quoted.  I agree that POLEMIC is not quite what is needed.

However, because of our beliefs we are likely to disagree on some
interpretations of the Gospel or the ways of the church.  I expect,
therefore some vigorous debates to happen in this forum.  I'd be
somewhat worried if we all agreed all the time - we'd sound brain washed.
In fact, by lively debate I often learn more about my faith.  Which
is why I signed on for this.

Moreover, because we follow Christ, we are bound to be controversial in
the world's eyes.  After all, He was ! So I can see way the word 'polemic'
was used by (was it) Jesse. (Appologies for only being vague on the who.)

Carol A Long,
        email     :  Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
Information Technology Service,
Southampton Institute of Higher Education
East Park Terrace, Southampton, England
        Post Code : SO9 4WW
        UK Fax No : (0703) 222259
DISCLAIMER - merely musings unless otherwise stated.
SPELLING   - entirely due to typing errors and poetic licence.
RELEASE    - repost at will, with acknowledgements to author.
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Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:43:08 -0500
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Gospel

Excerpts from christia: 17-Nov-92 Re: The Gospel Tom Brewer@LSUVM.BITNET (360)

> Get real. That's the kind of deception Jesse has been talking about. The
> Catholicism in America is extremely liberal and the majority of pew
> warmers know nothing of the RC doctrine.

Yes, indeed this is true.  Few American RCs know of the deep, deep dark
secrets about what the Catholic Church authoritatively teaches, such as
the authority and inspiration of Scripture, the literal resurrection of
Jesus Christ and of the dead, salvation by grace, the historicity of the
Gospels, the literal Second Coming of Jesus Christ, the primacy of
Christ, the vicarious sacrifice of Christ, and so forth.

I think this is unfortunate, because our job is to evangelize and
catechize these people.  But then again, we're not doing much worse than
the liberal Protestant denominations.  They have the same pew-warmers
who know little about their faith.  How many Presbyterians know their
church believes in predestination?

Rome laments the liberalism in the American Catholic churches.  It's
certainly not something that it's promoting, or is even happy about

Would that all Catholics really knew the teaching of the church!

Eric
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Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:53:56 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      Re: The Gospel

Eric,

Peter H. Kolvenbach (I don't know if it is spelled that way) is the
present Father General and He was here at ITESO a couple of years ago
and he said nothing about Marxism or disobeying the Pope, on the
contrary, he spoke about the job of the Jesuites in education acording
to the social doctrine of the Church. Very good speach, indeed.

One thing more, in the main office of the department here at ITESO that
has in charge the Christianity of the university there are photos of
Pope John Paul II and the Father General, that is a good detail.

Shalom,
Memo.
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:44:36 -0500
From:         MG_BROWN@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject:      Thanksgiving--an idea

Hi Everyone,
I just had a great idea. Since next Thursday is Thanksgiving let's make
next week official Thanksgiving week on Christia. We can all think about
the blessings we have, and thank God for all He's done for us in the past
year.  I know sometimes I lose sight of all He's done for me, and we can
never be thankful enough. So think about it this weekend and if you want
to , write a thanksgiving post next week. (Christia members in countries
that don't celebrate Thanksgiving, join in too!) I think this is a great
way to remember the meaning of the holiday, and for sharing among those
on the list. What do you think?
                                          Melanie
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From: ppxpmd@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (P.Debenham)
Subject: Re: Bible Memorization Tip
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 15:38:30 GMT

Memorizing scripture is in many ways just like memorizing anything else.  If
you think it is important to know something you will take great time and effort
to do so.  Actors remember entire plays, not by being supermen but by being
prepared to take the time andtrouble to do so.  If someone says that they are
unable to ever memorize scripture does it mean that they do not think it is
important enough to spend time and effort doing?  I would submit that it often
does.
  Having said that though for most people it is worth spending time learning
how to learn in the first instance.  The memory method given at the start of
this post is one of only many methods available to memorize almost anyhing you
think is worth while doing.
  One basic rule though, learn passages in thier context.  Not only is that
good use of God's word, you remember things more easily when linked to other
things you already know.  Memorizing a single sentence standing alone is more
difficult than memorizing the sentence along with its context.
  Hope this is of use,
PETER

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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:46:13 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: What a relief, David Grey

> Still, the prayers are not " wasted " (as if they ever were!).
> David I'm sure still needs prayer for spiritual and emotional
> healing, and continual physical healing from his addictions.

um.. that's both Davids...

Mark
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Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:09:12 CST
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Book Recommendation
              16 Nov 1992 16:07:04 GMT from <kilroy@GBORO.GLASSBORO.EDU>

Darren:

It must be an awesome responsibility to be the only one to understand and
use correct logic. And to think you have actually read the writings of the
authors mentioned and not just some commentary or position summary is, well,
amazing!
I sure am glad I never had to read any of those authors in any of my
philosophy courses and religious studies courses:-)

Come on Darren, I still have some of those books, several of them are such
anthologies. If you would like another book that surveys philosophy and
provides commentary and qoutes of other author/philosophers, look up
THALES TO DEWEY, by Gordon H. Clark.

Tom (I think; therefore, I.B.M.) Brewer
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 10:02:28 CST
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From:         JLong <JLONG@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Being gay is offensive?

Once again people, I am not trying to offend anyone.  I was simply stating
what God has already said.  I still love everyone including gay people. I
still do not like the sin or act or whatever you want to call it.  I will
and I do tell people of God's love.  I'm not trying to judge either.  And
if I was doing something wrong and someone told me with proof that I was
doing wrong.  No I would not be upset or mad.  Infact  I would be grateful
and would say that the Lord sent someone to tell me to do better.
Janie
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Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 08:46:09 -0500
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Apocrapha

I have replied to Lauren privately concerning her questions.

Eric
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Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:22:37 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      REPLY-PRAYER REQUEST-BRENDA

Dear Brenda,

I have four girls of my own.  My mind can't even begin to understand what
is really  going on in our  society. I touch  and agree with you  and our
prayer warriors on Christia for this precious child.

Most Gracious Heavenly Father,

We come before You asking You to heal this child not only physically, but
emotionally and take  away all the hurt and confusion  in her young life.
Please comfort her  family and all the people in  Louisville, who are now
very upset and  fearful. Father we ask  You to put a  hedge of protection
around the  people and protect them  from this unstable person.  Help him
to be caught to  get help and keep from repeating  such a horrible crime.
Help this  community draw  closer together with  love and  compassion for
one another,  not only this community,  but world wide also.  We have had
some serious  prayer requests recently; and  You said when we  don't know
how to  pray as  we ought that  the Holy Spirit  intercedes for  us. Lord
You know  what is  in our  hearts, but please  Holy Spirit  intercede for
us and  help us  to pray in  the Spirit with  all supplication.  In Jesus
Name we pray.  Father have mercy on us all.  Amen and Amen.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:01:03 CST
From:         TOM BREWER <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Book Recommendation
              23 Nov 1992 17:35:19 GMT from <kilroy@GBORO.GLASSBORO.EDU>

DARREN:

I saw the movie. Honest :-)

Tom Brewer
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:05:45 EST
From:         "jones, mark" <JMJONES@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gaither...

Hey Theresa,
Gaithers, eh? Aren't Bill and Gloria incredible?
Have you thought of this one lately?

Shackled by a heavy burden,
'neath a load of guilt and shame,
then the Hand of Jesus touched me,
and now, I am no longer the same!
He touched me, oh He touched me!
and oh, the joy that floods my soul...
Something happened, and now I know
He touched me, and made me whole!

Since I met this blessed Savior,
Since He cleansed and made me whole,
I will never cease to praise Him,
I will shout it while eternities roll!

chorus

Thank you Jesus for your touch.
Mark
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:27:00 EST
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From:         Liz Moreau <EMOREAU@UMASSD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Now ... Just what ARE Polemics?

>Bill, I am not going to try to put you on the spot, but I really would like
>some others to come up with real evidence of my alleged pugnaciousness.
>I am not trying to evade any possible culpability here.  I am really NOT
>convinced as to their charges.
>Can they cite some cases and let me see what they are referring to?

Jesse:

You are very knowledgeable and have plenty of things to teach all of
us.  Unfortunately, I just delete your messages.  I have trouble
understanding (as Lonnie puts it) your $20 words.

I know that things don't come across on the net like they would in
person, but by reading your posts I feel they have a condenscending
and patronizing tone.

I know other people have told you this, but you won't listen.

Jesse, I'm sure we could all learn from you, but your style of writing
offends many.  Its not the content that is offensive, its the style.

                                        Liz
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:11:14 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      REPLY-PRAYER REQUEST-SCOTT

Hi Scott,

We will be  praying for Matthew. We  know that by the  stripes that Jesus
bore for  us that  these were  for our  healing. I  touch and  agree with
you and the prayer warriors for Matthew's complete recovery.

We also will  lift up Teen Mania, what a  marvelous and courageous group,
for  prayer and  for God's  protection as  they travel  to Yugoslavia  to
minister to the Croatian people.

Dear Heavenly Father,

We thank  you and praise  you for your  many blessings. Because  Jesus is
is our  great physician,  we ask that  you heal Matthew  from the  top of
his head  to the  soles of  his feet  and make  him completely  whole. We
will be  so faithful  to give You  all the glory,  honor, and  praise for
answering  this request.  Father also  we pray  for the  beautiful people
in  Yugoslavia. So  many times  people suffer  such terrible  things, but
Father I know  that you can help  them and protect them.  We come against
satan and this attack  on the Croatian people. We ask  You Father to send
Your angels of warfare to do battle  and take back what satan has stolen.
We ask that  You put a hedge  of protection around them  and provide them
with all  their needs being  met in Jesus Name.  We ask that  You anoint,
bless,  and protect  those  that will  be bringing  in  the supplies  and
ministering  to the  people.  Let  this trip  bear  much  fruit for  Your
Kingdom. Help us  to remember that we have so  many people and situations
to pray  for -  Let us continue  to pray without  ceasing and  holding up
those who  are yet suffering right  at this very moment.  In Jesus Mighty
Name we pray.  Amen and Amen.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
From: jmrg9881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Reid)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Effectiveness of Church Teaching (was Gospel)
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:31:56 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie) writes:

>During a discussion which didn't have a point, or at least not an obvious
>one, somebody said that Roman Catholics didn't really know what the Vatican
>taught.  Then somebody else claimed that this was true of all the other
>denominations too.

>I'm not so sure.  Depending on how loosely one defines `Christian', there are
>some fringe groups that do a pretty good job of making sure that their members
>know the Official Doctrines and can repeat the arguments for them.

<stuff deleted...>

>Does anyone have ideas on how to help the `deadwood' turn into fruit-bearing
>branches?  Or maybe how to keep the branches from drying up in the first
>place?

One problem I see is that "knowing doctrine" does not necessarily lead to
"bearing fruit".  In most churches, the emphasis is on teaching primarily
through sermons and Sunday School classes -- or, if you like, the emphasis
is on *information*.

The trouble is, people can go to church on Sunday every day of their lives
and be only marginally changed by it.  Lives are changed when values are
shaped, and values are shaped when one life "rubs" against another life.

Cell group churches address the problem you raise by placing everyone in
the church in a small group of about a dozen people.  Everyone is discipled
by someone, and everyone is discipling someone else.  The emphasis is not
on meetings, but on relationships.  And the group has a common mission of
bringing the kingdom of God to their community by building relationships
with unbelievers; instead of focusing on their own nurture and ending up
as "navel-gazing clubs", the groups look outward to fulfilling the Great
Commission.  It's hard to stagnate with that kind of vision.
-- 
Jon Reid    j-reid@uiuc.edu    GEnie: THE.REIDS
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 08:16:21 MST
From:         Madge McBurney <ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Thanksgiving--an idea
              20 Nov 1992 17:44:36 -0500 from <MG_BROWN@UNHH.UNH.EDU>

These are some of the things I'm especially thankful for.

1.  That God loves me, and that He sent Jesus to us.

2.  I'm thankful that God is patient with me.

3.  Thankful that I have a good job.  That I can visit a doctor whenever
    I need to, buy food whenever I'm hungry, call a friend whenever I want,
    put a coat on whenever I'm cold, travel wherever I wish, say whatever
    I please, and vote for whomever I choose.

4.  That God allowed time for my parents to see my life turn around,
    and to see that their struggle with me during those bad years was
    worth something.

5.  That I live in a country where I'm allowed to own my own Bible.

6.  I'm still thankful to those who first witnessed to me about Jesus.

7.  I'm thankful that I feel better today than I did a month ago.

8.  Thankful for my family.

9.  I'm thankful for the love God placed in my heart for others.

10. I'm thankful for the promise that Jesus will return.

Madge McBurney
P.S.  I forgot one...I'm thankful for this list, and for Steven Klepzig.
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Date:         Sun, 22 Nov 1992 14:24:10 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Prayer request - Dave Grey

        Some of you may remember previous prayer requests for one of the young
men at my church named Dave Grey.  As of July, he had been sober and drug-
free for two years.  Unfortunately, he dropped out of site.  At first, that
was because he started to become active with another sunday school class.
But it seems that he stopped going to that class after a while.

        Anyway, our pastor heard on the radio that he has apparently
shot himself either last night or this morning, and is in serious condition.
It is entirely possible that he started drinking again, but we don't know.

Please pray for his spiritual, emotional, and physical healing.

Mark
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Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:20:01 CST
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: The Gospel

Yo MEMO:

You've got to be kiddin' right? Nothing doctrinally was changed at
Vatican II. Check out the literature pre and post. The De Fide dogma is
still in tact.

Get real. That's the kind of deception Jesse has been talking about.
The Catholicism in America is extremely liberal and the majority of
pew warmers know nothing of the RC doctrine.

Tom Brewer