HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Sigh.
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 18:26:01 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon



This afternoon, I check netnews:

  ********  76 unread articles in talk.politics.mideast--read now? [ynq] 

OK, 76 messages, hit 'y' and my trusty KILL file goes to work:

  Looking for articles to kill...
  
  /phd21/h:j
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  /Cosar/h:j
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  /Davidian/h:j
  
Then the first message pops up:
  
  Article 62763 (3 more) in talk.politics.mideast:
  
73 out of 76 Messages?!  Hello??? Has anyone else thought
that if everyone just ceased to read and respond to Mutlu's
messages, he might just go away?  I mean, I am interested 
in the debate but I could care less who's right or wrong 
at this point.

-anwar



-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Date: 27 Aug 92 08:58:56 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Aug26.140030.25262@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:
=>In article 8356@dscomsf.desy.de, hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes:
=>>In article <1992Aug25.011556.7264@midway.uchicago.edu>, rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu
=>>(nora gayle rivkis) writes:
=>>|>In article <1992Aug24.144701.20071@dscomsf.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
=>>|>writes:
=>>|>
=>>|>>Would it not be more reasonable to accept that the Mufti and Shamir are not
=>>|>>representative of the people they lead? 
=>>|>
=>>|>Yes. I'll drop both halves if you will.
=>>|>
=>>|>>In the case of Shamir there is a point
=>>|>>to the debate since he is still nominal leader of a political party. 
=>>|>
=>>|>Look at your own previous sentence, Phil -- and drop it, as you yourself
=>>|>requested. But wuit this double standard whereby you can say "we should
=>>|>stop talking about either of them" and then right away go and talk about
=>>|>one of them.
=>>
=>>At no time have I ever claimed that Shamir is in any way representative of the
=>>Israeli people. Since most of the Israelis I meet consider Shamir to be at best
=>>mentaly deficient, this would be a ludicrous statement.
=>>
=>>However Shamir is reperesentative of the Likud party, or at the very least
=>>demonstrates the sort of person they are prepared to tolerate as leader.
=>
=>You're quite the presumptuous little twerp, aren't you Phill? Did you ever
=>stop to consider that perhaps most of the Israelis whom you meet are, themselves,
=>not too representative of the Israeli people? or is it, since Shamir *was* elected 
=>in 1988 with a sizeable mandate by the Israeli voting public, that you consider
=>both him *and* most Israelis to be "mental[l]y deficient"?
=>
=>And why use the word "tolerate"? Isn't it obvious to you that Shamir, by virtue
=>of the fact that he was elected in 1988, and renominated in 1992, is "the [sort
=>of] person they *want* as their leader"?


I would guess that Phill was giving the Israelis the benefit of the doubt.
As you point out, the evidence is that they don't merit it.

-- 
==================================================================
-Jeremy Henderson            |  Une souris verte
 egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk	     |  Qui courrait dans l'herbe
==================================================================
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: friedenb@sapphire.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Subject: Cartoon
Reply-To: friedenb@sapphire.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 15:02:26 GMT

My mother sent me a cartoon out of the sunday funnies.  It is
the cartoon B.C.  The cartoonist's last name is Hart (if I remember
correctly).


The main B.C. character goes up to the door of a house and knocks.

A woman answers and B.C. offers her a loan; But in return for the
loan, the woman would have to sign over all of her posessions to
her next-door neighbor's cat.  

Naturally, she slams the door in his face.

The final frame of the cartoon (with B.C. walking dejectedly away 
from the house), B.C. says "So much for the James Baker approach!!!"



I loved it!  If anyone wants to see it, let me know.  I'll scan it,
and post it to alt.toon-pics.

 
Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University

                   
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19156 alt.politics.clinton:2958
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:01:13 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Aug25.120204.17755@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>Truly free democratic elections in Arab couould probably also help.

Yes, but do you have any solutions on getting rid of the dictators
first?

Anisa
 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Arabs/leftists? (was Re: Computer Science in Israel Ignored)
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 00:34:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.125206.6655@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
(samuel.saal) writes:

|>In article <1992Aug31.202821.22337@dscomsf.desy.de>
|>Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
|>
|>>Anyway back to demonising, Gore Vidal makes some very telling points on this
|>>subject in his movie hollywood. Excellent reading by the way, the guy
|>clearly
|>>knows how politics work. He describes how overnight the German beer cellars
|>>serving saurkraut etc suddenly change to Austrian or Swiss cuisine. "If a
|>>portion of the populace that comrise a fifth of the nation can be demonised
|>so
|>>quickly what is there that the press cannot do" (quote from memory so not
|>>verbatim).
|>
|>If you use Gore Vidal as your primary source for anythin beyond historical
|>(hysterical?) fiction, just about anything negative said about you gains
|>credence.

Given that Gore is a German name, from St Gore in the Rhine valley and Gore
Vidal is in part recounting the political career of his grandfather Senator Gore
it is prettey obvious that the guy is recounting the history of his own family.

A primary source for such an observation would of course be preferable. However
I was not basing my argument on that point merely using Gore Vidal to provide
illustration. If I was describing Victorian England I would of course quote
Dickens even though he is no more reliable than Vidal, he just has this way with
words y' know.


--

Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Religion and Politics (was: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT...)
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 13:27:22 GMT

jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
#
#I told you, you should not carry the name "Mohammed".  Islam and
#politics cannot be separated.  Recall that the Prophet established
#a government.  Read the Quran and the Serat,  both are full of
#governmental guidance.

Is this commonly accepted among Muslims? I always thought that
what ruins religion is when it becomes mixed with politics and
forms a hierarchical structure to rule the people. We have
certainly seen this hurt both Judaism and Christianity.

One may claim that such a structure is necessary for the continuation
of the existance of the religion in question, but in the long
run the religion vanishes, and only the structure remains.

That is not to say that the principals of religion should not be
applied in certain state matters, but the political hierarchy
should not be composed of the religious leaders.

-Danny Keren.



Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: politics
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:56:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.191405.2446208@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.163951.25193@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug26.022619.2423654@locus.com>, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>>> In article <3625@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>>> >In article <1992Aug21.073928.17880@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>> >>
>>> >>In article 22555@rs.com, horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
>>> >>>The Philistines were *never* in Israel -- and their name *never* evolved into
>>> 				  ^^^^^^^^^
>>> What Israel?  The now adays place known, by force, as israel is the stolen
>>> land of the Philistines.  Israel of the thieves , if you wish , exists
>>> around Germany that if the Germans, Polish, ...etc wish it to be.  This 
>>> land is that of the Philistines.  Read actual history books and ask the 
>>> people of the land, do not read the books of a bunch of thief-authors, and
>>> ask the invadors.
>>> 
>>
>>The land of the Philistines was around Gaza.  They controlled 5
>>coastal cities there, after failing in their attempt to invade
>>Egypt.  Philistines were Anatolian Greeks, and have no ethnic
>>ties with current inhabitants of the region.  In Archeological
>>Review an article on the results of excavations of the Philistine
>
>So, the name Philistine in Arabic, Hebrew, Persian, ...etc that points
>to the people of Palestine , is just a cooincidence , right?
>
>Don't be fooled with by the letters P and Ph when English translation 
>takes place .

Just like Elghani!  As has been mentioned umpteen times on this net, the
name "Palestine" for the land was a Roman invention.  Once again, we see
what should be very obvious:  Elghani refuses to take seriously anything
which attacks his hopelessly narrow view of the world.  Ho hum.


-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,soc.rights.human,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.jewish
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Religion and Politics (was: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT...)
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:34:38 GMT

aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
##Danny Keren writes:
#
##Nop. Arab countries have been causing most of the damage. Look
##at the Egypt-Yemen war, the civil war in Lebanon, the Iran-Iraq
##war, etc etc. You can't blame the West and/or Israel for all
##of these.
#
#Do you care to elaborate a little here?  Do you believe that
#Israel had no part in Lebanon's civil war?

What about all the other wars? As for the civil war in Lebanon,
I don't remember the exact date it started, but in 1975 there
were already about 30,000 victims. This was long before any
IDF soldier set foot in Lebanon, except for some commando raids
that didn't have any significant influence on the global
picture.

#:-)  Don't you people believe that Rabbi Menachem Schneerson is
#a prophet?  :-)

"You people"?? What does that mean? I don't think any secular
Jew believes that, and many orthodox Jews reject it also. This
has been the reason for a great strife between certain
Jewish orthodox communities.

#We are all looking for a miracle - for the Supreme Guidance.  But
#maybe we can help each other by making peace together ... you
#know, brotherly love and acceptance.

Sure! Tell that to brother John :-)

###And is the political concept of Zionism?  Why make historical
###claims based on Biblical testament then?
##
##The word "Zionism" has been abused to such an extent that it 
##hardly has any common interpretation anymore. Personally, I
##reject claims to land made on Biblical texts.
#
#Hmmm..... very interesting.  So you are not a Zionist?

Shhh! Everybody's listening! But, seriously - I cannot answer
that question; it is like you aksed me if I am a tefdytgbsd. There
is simply no common definition of Zionism, so the question is
not defined. Suffice if I say that I believe Israel should
exist forever, within secure limits, and, most hopefuly, in
peace.

I agree with the rest of your post, which I deleted to save space.

-Danny Keren.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: What are you sucking on, Anwar?  (was Re: John Elghani sucking on
         his toes)
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:59:21 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <Btp3nF.DC6.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>
>John, next time get some facts.  In addition to the billions Kuwait
>has spent in the past on poorer Arab and Islamic states (as I've 
>repeated here ad infinitum),

Prove it with facts and figures, not just words.

> Kuwait has been involved in supporting 
>the diplomatic missions for Somalia and sending aid to 
>Bosnia-Hercegovina.


Prove it with facts and figures, not words.

>  Kuwait has no option of helping in Sudan as
>the government there, which is hostile to Kuwait,

Because Sudan is an Islamic government.  We know the history
of Kuwait trying to destroy Islamic governments that it fears
because it calls on Kuwaiti injustic - which is an awfully
damned ackward position.

> is largely 
>responsible for the misery there (mostly inflicted on Christians,
>who are also being enslaved by the Sudani government).

What does this all have to do with Kuwaiti misuse of Muslim
money and inhumanity to Palestinians after the war?  YOU need
to get your own facts straight before posting such biased garbage.
 
>So if you are looking for someone to attack, why don't you attack
>the Iraqi government, which has propped up this murderous Sudani
>regime?

Okay.  Lets start first by attacking the Kuwaiti government that
bankrolled the Iraqi government, which murdered several million
innocent Muslims in both Iraq and Iran, only later to deceive it.

Why don't we tell the truth and lay the facts right out on the
table, Anwar.

>Your attack in Kuwait is so misdirected and uninformed here, I 
>suggest to you that you retract it before you lose all credibility,
>if you haven't already.

I suggest had better start doing a little reading and presenting
the facts before you lose all credibility, if you haven't already.

You start first by taking your thumb out of your mouth and your
other one out of your ... whoops!!

Anisa
From: adam@sparkle.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Fair Swap
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:59:25 GMT
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <25500@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.133246.10319@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>=>In article <25475@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:

>=> There is
>=>no legitimate question about this. Even prominent Arab figures, like
>=>the late Egyptian president Anwar Sadat and King Hussein, admit this. 
>=>The relevant quotes have been posted on the net many times.
>
>Not to mention the various sources confirming that it was Israel that
>launched an unnecessary invasion, but, as you say, this has been 
>mentioned many times here, with little apparent impact.

Yes, but no one has really refuted the fact that closing off Israels
access to international waterways via the straits of Hormuz was an act
of war on Egypts part.

So blaming the war on Egypt is like blaming me for stabbing someone
who comes up to me and punching me.  Maybe I'm over-reacting, but if
I didn't start it, its self defense.
Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu)
Subject: Re: politics
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:01:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep01.035418.2447987@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.215655.13594@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug31.191405.2446208@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>>>So, the name Philistine in Arabic, Hebrew, Persian, ...etc that points
>>>to the people of Palestine , is just a cooincidence , right?
>>>
>>>Don't be fooled with by the letters P and Ph when English translation 
>>>takes place .
>>
>>Just like Elghani!  As has been mentioned umpteen times on this net, the
>>name "Palestine" for the land was a Roman invention.  Once again, we see
>>what should be very obvious:  Elghani refuses to take seriously anything
>>which attacks his hopelessly narrow view of the world.  Ho hum.
>
>Obviously, the narrow-view-of-the-world is in the ERIC PERLMAN's eyes.
>
>Do you deny the equality beteen the names Palestine and Philistine?  If you
>do, just let me know so I can laugh a little more, I happened to
>like jokes.
>
>jle

	You know, I've been away for the summer, and now that I've returned, I
see that nothing has changed. Elghani, you still have an amazing knack for
putting your foot in your mouth.  As has been explained countless times, 
Philistia (as I think their land of the Philistines was called) refered only
to what is the present day Gaza strip.  Palestine was a Roman name given to
what is present day Israel.  Why don't you look on a map to see the difference?
Therefore, Philistine (or Philistia) and Palestine are not the same.

							-Manu
-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

"The Arab governments were largely responsible for the ruin of the Palestinian
  Arabs"     -Sir John Bagot Glubb
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Reply-To: horen@rs.com
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:00:30 PDT

In article 8356@dscomsf.desy.de, hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.011556.7264@midway.uchicago.edu>, rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu
>(nora gayle rivkis) writes:
>|>In article <1992Aug24.144701.20071@dscomsf.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
>|>writes:
>|>
>|>>Would it not be more reasonable to accept that the Mufti and Shamir are not
>|>>representative of the people they lead? 
>|>
>|>Yes. I'll drop both halves if you will.
>|>
>|>>In the case of Shamir there is a point
>|>>to the debate since he is still nominal leader of a political party. 
>|>
>|>Look at your own previous sentence, Phil -- and drop it, as you yourself
>|>requested. But wuit this double standard whereby you can say "we should
>|>stop talking about either of them" and then right away go and talk about
>|>one of them.
>
>At no time have I ever claimed that Shamir is in any way representative of the
>Israeli people. Since most of the Israelis I meet consider Shamir to be at best
>mentaly deficient, this would be a ludicrous statement.
>
>However Shamir is reperesentative of the Likud party, or at the very least
>demonstrates the sort of person they are prepared to tolerate as leader.

You're quite the presumptuous little twerp, aren't you Phill? Did you ever
stop to consider that perhaps most of the Israelis whom you meet are, themselves,
not too representative of the Israeli people? or is it, since Shamir *was* elected 
in 1988 with a sizeable mandate by the Israeli voting public, that you consider
both him *and* most Israelis to be "mental[l]y deficient"?

And why use the word "tolerate"? Isn't it obvious to you that Shamir, by virtue
of the fact that he was elected in 1988, and renominated in 1992, is "the [sort
of] person they *want* as their leader"?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: For Yigal (Was: Re: Computer Science in Israel Ignored)
Summary: Yigal owes Bob Werman an apology
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 01:38:19 GMT


	Does everyone remember (it was not too long ago) Yigal getting on
Bob Werman's case for allegedly  making an artilce thread go to an
"obscure" (talk.politics.misc - real obscure!) newsgroup?  Well it
turns out that when I originally replied to this article it was going
to go to il.board, no doubt an internal Israeli news group.  The
reason?  It had to do with the followup line.  I doubt very much that
Bob Werman had in mind to restrict followups to il.board, especially
since posting to it from outside of Israel would result in an error
which would be noticed and then the poster would merely edit the
followup line.

	I have no doubts that a similar situation is what occured before.
Will Yigal apologize?
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,alt.war
From: rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: politics
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:21:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.022619.2423654@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>In article <3625@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug21.073928.17880@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>>
>>>In article 22555@rs.com, horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
>>>>The Philistines were *never* in Israel -- and their name *never* evolved into
>				  ^^^^^^^^^
>What Israel?  The now adays place known, by force, as israel is the stolen
>land of the Philistines.  

Without taking your bait regarding modern Israel, I have to note that
we were discussing ancient history, and the northern branch of the Two
Kingdoms in the post-Solomonic era was called Israel.

>jle

	-Nora
-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast