HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: berryh@huey.udel.edu (John Berryhill, Ph.D.)
Subject: Re: Will the -REAL- Christians please stand up? Was: What did Judas betray?
Organization: little scraps of paper, mostly
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 05:09:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.042924.20035@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca> ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell) writes:
>In article <eharbin.725567520@convex.convex.com> eharbin@convex.com (Edward Harbin) writes:
>>
>>>>This century has tried several experiments in explicitly anti-religious
>>>>statecraft

I took this line to be a reference to Marxist countries such as the
former Soviet Union and China.  These countries have been anti-religious.

>>>Hmmm.  Here once again we see the collossal ignorance and arrogance of a
>>>typical Christian:  I don't suppose it's ever occurred to you that

And here you see the usual arrogance of a typical usenet flamer.  I don;t
suppose that it has ever occurred to you that those impulses within human
beings that lead us to hate, enslave, and destroy are common to all humans
and don't originate in any particular group thereof.

People will always find a reason to do things like holler "BULLSHIT!!"
at each other.  Show me the group of humans that has never oppressed others
or would not oppress others given the opportunity.

Take the Caribs.  The Caribs were the people of the West Indies that were
killed off by the early European conquerors.  That's pretty bad.  Almost
as bad as the fact that the islands were previously occupied by the
Arawaks.  The Caribs invaded from South America and killed off the Arawaks
long before Columbus showed up to kill the Caribs.   I'm supposed to be on
somebody's side in all of this?

Humans are disgusting murderous animals.  There's not a pig's breath worth
of difference between the disgusting murderous humans who call themselves
Christians and the disgusting murderous humans who call themselves anything
else.

However, it is always comforting to blame the worst aspects of the human
condition on the THEM of your choice.   Better yet, let's say nasty things
at THEM on the net!  And let's do it in a newsgroup that has nothing
whatsoever to do with the topic!
-- 
                                                John Berryhill, Ph.D.
From: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Homeopathy
Date: 24 Dec 1992 16:58:41 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: antizen.ebay.sun.com


>Asthma isn't good for you either, and by the time you are 50 or 60,
>you might find out that emphysema is even more unpleasant.  Ask your
>lung doctor about cromoglycates (like Intal or Lomudal).  They reduce
>allergic reactions by blocking the IgE receptors on the mest-cells in
>the lungs.

Jan,

This is excellent advise, specifically for someone not interested in
alternative medicine. I have used Intal (Cromolyn Sodium) with some
success and it is reported to have less side effects than any of the
beta agonists (which it is not), and in fact I'll probably use it 
today when I go for a hike, BUT....

I feel that I have experienced a positive result from a homeopathic
remedy, which is completely without any side effects and doesn't have
to be taken long term. In fact, I took a single high dose 3 or 4 weeks
ago and that was that.

I think what you're not hearing is that I'm searching for a way to not 
have to be an asthmatic the rest of my life. I may have found what
I'm looking for.

If I were satisfied with conventional treatment, then most certainly
I would find a respiratory specialist and closely comply with his
medical advise and care.

Greg

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Homeopathic remedies
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:02:47 GMT

wsadjw@rw6.urc.tue.nl (Jan Willem Nienhuys) writes:
: 
: It is even not much more irrational than astrology.
:

Excellent!  

In english that is called being "damned with feigned praise."

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I want a WESSON OIL
Rosemount Inc.                                |lease!!
                                              |
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Crucifixion of Jesus?
Date: 3 Jan 93 05:30:57 GMT
Followup-To: sci.skeptic
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)

In article <1992Dec16.053059.26838@bilver.uucp>, dickb@bilver.uucp (Dick
Biow) wrote:
> This whole issue is getting too involved. Obscure, not profound. We are getting like the guy who proved that Hamlet was not written by Shakespeare, but by
> another author of the same name. The general weight of critical scholarship
> is that Jesus was crucified. We can't go beyond that. Shaeffer's approach is
> an interesting minority opinion. Mark Twain said that, in Europe, he saw two
> different skulls of COlumbus in two different museums. One was of Columbus
> as a child, and the other was as an old man. Let's argue about that for a
> while. I will take either side, so long as I can accuse my oponent of sub-
> jectivity, plus mopery with intent to gawk. -- Dick Biow

Apoligies, but my understanding is that it's an either-or situation,
and not a "two-skull" situation. And sometimes minorities have been
right, as in the case of the flat Earth, so the label of minority
does not invalidate an explanation.


Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: zellner@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Crucifixion of Jesus?
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 02:05:30 GMT


>>|> Just curious, but how does Jesus being called the son of Mary
>>|> imply illegitimacy?  Remember, at the time of the passage Joseph
>>> is believed to have been dead.  It seems quite natural to be
>>|> labeled the son of a widow, doesn't it?


The passage (Mark 6:3) is as follows:

  Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, 
  and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? 
  And they were offended at him.

Obviously this was said by _opponents_ of Jesus' claims.  This was in his
home town, and naturally there would have been some scandal just from the
fact that Mary was pregnant before her marriage.  Neither the opposition 
nor the scandal tell us anything about his real parentage.

Ben
From: michaelb@cse.fau.edu (Michael Rogero Brown)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Hollow Earth
Date: 28 Dec 92 01:40:12 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton, FL, USA

In article <10292353.11678.14558@kcbbs.gen.nz> Richard_Plinston@kcbbs.gen.nz (Richard Plinston) writes:
>
>    >>> from the early 60s.  unlikely that he'd try to explain
>    >>> satellite photos
>
>    On the contrary the author used satellite photos to help
>    'prove' that the Earth was hollow.  He printed two 'photos'
>    showing the North Polar region, one had a large white area
>    which was claimed to be cloud covering the hole at the North
>    Pole, the second had a large black circular area which was
>    claimed as the hole after the clouds dispersed.
>
>    There were genuine NASA issue 'photographs'.  A cretin may have
>    been fooled by the interpretation that the author placed on them.
>    A slight amount of knowledge would have made one look for the
>    'night side' of the Earth - there wasn't one, the illumination
>    was constant all the way round.  These 'photos' were made
>    of strips taken by satellite at midday as the Earth rotated.
>    The white was undoubtedly cloud cover over snow, the black
>    circular 'hole' was where the sun never rose at some later time
>    of year.
>
>    As another inconsitency the Aurora were claimed to be caused
>    by light spilling out of the holes at the poles.  If this were
>    the case then why is it claimed that the hole was the 'black
>    bit'.  It should be bright if it could cause the Aurora.
>
The author who proposed this was Ray Palmer, publisher of _Fate_ magazine.
I read about this nonsense in either Time-Life's _Mystic Places_ or one of
Gardner's  collections of articles from Prometheus Books.  I have no idea if
other Hollow Earthers accept this idea.

That's one of the strange things about Hollow Earthers.  Each one has his own ideas about the Hollow Earth and sometimes even put down one another.

See the Hollow Earth Bibliography I posted.

-- 
<< Michael Rogero Brown                      | Disclaimer: I speak     >>
<< CS Graduate Student-Florida Atlantic Univ |  only for myself.       >>
<< Internet: michaelb@sol.cse.fau.edu        | All my opinions are     >>
<< BitNet: m_brown@fauvax                    |  that: mine & opinions. >>
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Repost of Truzzi Lecture:  How to Handle Scientific "Unorthodoxy"
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:19:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.003135.20240@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes in part:
|> 
[...]
|> REFLECTIONS ON THE RECEPTION OF UNCONVENTIONAL CLAIMS IN SCIENCE
|> 
|> November 29, 1989 Colloquium presented by Marcello Truzzi, Ph.D., Professor
[...]
|> Reported by Simona Solovey

[...]
|> As a sociologist of science I remain outside of the controversies surrounding
|> unconventional claims in science.
[...]
|> There are three broad approaches to anomaly studies.  The first approach is
|> usually called the Fortean approach.  It is generally characterized by what
|> critics would call mystery mongering. 
[...]
|> The second common approach is what critics usually call the debunkers'
|> approach.  This is the main attitude of the orthodox scientific community
|> towards anomaly claims.  It is characterized by the Committee for the
|> Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP).  "Whatever is
|> claimed is nothing but ... something else."  
[...]

Hmm.  I am surprised to hear that either of these two approaches qualifies
as "science"!  This, of course is very "balanced" of Truzzi--he stands
firmly between a straw scylla (sp?) and a straw charibdis (sp?)!  Truly
the only place for any reasonable (straw) philosopher to stand.

I leave a cataloging of the flaws in this kind of argument as an 
exercise for undergraduate rhetoric students.

[...]
|> I found that the Committee [CSICOP] was much more interested in attacking
|> the most publicly visible claimants such as the "National Enquirer".  The
|> major interest of the Committee was not inquiry but to serve as an advocacy
|> body, a public relations group for scientific orthodoxy.  The Committee has
|> made many mistakes.  My main objection to the Committee, and the reason I
|> chose to leave it, was that it was taking the public position that it
|> represented the scientific community, serving as gatekeepers on maverick
|> claims, whereas I felt they were simply unqualified to act as judge and jury
|> when they were simply lawyers.

This is a very legitimate criticism.  This is a criticism of 
CSICOPs PR claims (or Truzzis interpretation of them, at least), NOT 
of the validity of the role of debunker, or of the validity of the 
debunking done.  Solid debunking of nonsense is essential, and
an advocate and forum for such plays its role.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
From: wsadjw@rwc.urc.tue.nl (Jan Willem Nienhuys)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Homeopathy
Date: 26 Dec 92 13:48:05 GMT
Reply-To: wsadjw@urc.tue.nl
Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands

In article <1992Dec25.184036.123@Princeton.EDU> rdnelson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger D. Nelson) writes:
>includes asthma specifically, but there are some studies, e.g. Janssen,
>in the Nederlands Tijdschraft Voor Integralle Gneeskund, 1989, 5,

Nederlands Tijdschrift voor Integrale Geneeskunde

>586-594, that do specifically examine effects of meditation and some
>related dietary intervention on asthma.  Wilson, et al, for Kaiser
>Permanente (in press, but I don't know where) showed in randomized
>clinical trials that the behavioral approach could reduce office visits
>for acute asthma by 27 to 49% depending on the study subgroup.  
>

Over 25 years ago a lung specialist referred me to a physiotherapist,
to take breathing exercises and practising certain forms of relaxation.
It helped. Such methods are also in use today. I don't see so much news
in the approach sketched.  And, the magazine you mention is typically
something to be found on the newsstands of New Age bookshops. That means
that their referees might be not too strict about proper experimental
design.  If a Dutch researcher has something interesting to report, s/he
should try to get it into the Nederlands Tijdschrift voor Geneeskunde
(which appears every week, and which is read widely  and has high standards).

Yuk, how do I hate myself for rejecting unseen an article that might be
interesting, and that on Christmas. 

JWN
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO)
Subject: Re: Crucifixion of Jesus?
Reply-To: ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata - FSO)
Organization: HFSI, McLean VA.
Distribution: world,local
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:31:32 GMT

In article <19DEC199217041764@violet.ccit.arizona.edu> lippard@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) writes:
>In article <1992Dec19.192457.26807@hfsi.uucp>, ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata - FSO) writes...
>>In article <NICHAEL.92Dec18095658@kariba.bbn.com> ncramer@bbn.com writes:
>>>ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:
>>>The authors of the various synoptic Gospels _aren't_ simply telling
>>>the same the story.  They are by and large, in detail, using the _same
>>>words_.  Moreover, where they vary from each other --including the
>>>introduction and exclusion of specific materials-- it is done in a
>>>consistent and clear manner.
>> 
>>2) I think you exagerate a bit.  Yes, the passages are similar but
>>I don't think a "diff" of the synoptic gospels will be very kind
>>as you seem to imply.  As I said, IMO it is more accurate to think
>>of them based off of a common source or working document.
>
>Have you compared the Greek?

No, have you done so?  Is the Greek word for word identical in the
majority of cases in all three Synoptic Gospels?  All the texts
that I've read seemed to imply the contrary.  I would be most
curious to know first hand, however... 

>
>Jim Lippard              Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU


-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:  ata@hfsi.com
HFS, Inc.		  VA20     |     UUCP:  uunet!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601	   |    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
McLean, VA  22102	           |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
From: David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: The Fraud Uir Geller
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 23 Dec 92  15:57:18

warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
gdavis@griffin.uvm.edu (Gary Davis) writes:
 
>If Uri Geller is the psychic he professes,why doesn't NASA hire him
>immediately to unstick Galleo's main antenna before it gets out of
>range?
 
I translated (from Hebrew to English) parts of an article last October
and posted it here. It appeared on p. 14 of Yediot Achronot of Oct
11, 1991. Here's what he was quoted as saying about Galileo:
 
 "They invited me to come quickly to NASA's control center. They have
 a problem with the space probe Galileo, which was sent to Jupiter. It
 cost the a lot of money, has already traveled millions of kilometers,
 but its antenna has not opened. They called me, and I will try to
 help them. I will stand in the control center, I will concentrate,
 and by means of my mental power, I will try to open the antenna.
 
 "The Americans have a practical approach. They have already tried
 everything else and failed. So one of the senators connected to the
 space project has now turned to me. What do they have to lose? If I
 succeed, I will save a mission worth billions. If I fail - nothing
 has been lost. How much would they have invested? In all, an airline
 ticket, a few days in a hotel, and some money for my time."
 
----------------------------------------------------------------
 
"Invested" just a hotel bill, an airplane ticket, and money, ALL of
which he didn't earn! He did not provide ANY goods of services. Why
not invite some witch doctors in to perform chicken sacrafices?!?!?

--- Maximus 2.01wb
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:21797 alt.messianic:3756
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Chuck Missler and imminent Armageddon
Date: 29 Dec 92 17:30:29 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Followup-To: alt.messianic
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)

In article <28DEC199219414469@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu>, lippard@skyblu (James J. Lippard) writes:
>2.  In Genesis 49:10, the first letter of each Hebrew word spells out
>(in Hebrew) the message "I am Yeshua, the shepherd king."  (Anyone here
>know enough Hebrew to verify/refute this?)

What it says is "like Yeshuya for me is a name from evil."  It is
obviously appropriate that the text itself is about Jews remaining
faithful to Judaism, coding up a secret warning regarding deviants.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: cflatter@nrao.edu (Chris Flatters)
Subject: Re: Looking for Daniken sceptic
Reply-To: cflatter@nrao.edu
Organization: NRAO
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:36:52 GMT

In article 92Dec21154013@fleming-03.cs.strath.ac.uk, ssammy@cs.strath.ac.uk (Paul Sammy 4th Year iE/CES) writes:
>I'm looking for a book that purports to reveal the
>inconsistencies and downright lies that Eric Von Daniken
>(allegedly) wrote in his "Gold of the Gods" series.
>
>I know it exists (I've read it somewhere), but I'm not sure
>of the title or the author.
>I think its called "Gold of the Gods Revealed" or something
>similar.
>
>If possible I'd like a ISBN and a publisher, so I can order it.

I think that this is

	"The Space Gods Revealed"

by Robert (or maybe Ronald Story).  It was published in the UK
by New English Library but I suspect that it is long out of print.

The section that is alluded to here is actually a translation of
an article from the German new magazine Stern.  A magazine reporter
interviewed von Daniken's guide to some South American caves where
he claimed that alien artifacts were discovered.  It turns out the
von Daniken never set foot in the caves that he described.

	Chris Flatters
	cflatter@nrao.edu
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Biosphere II News
Date: 31 Dec 1992 05:53:56 GMT
Organization: sgi
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com

In article <X5LmwB4w164w@cellar.org>, revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes:
|> 
|> 	Lord knows how reliable this is, but both Buzzworm and the Whole
|> Earth Review are running articles about Biosphere this month. Whole Earth's
|> article by Kevin Kelley-- who is an advisor of some sort to the project, so
|> caveats up, gang-- reports that, while the Biospherians have managed to live
|> for a year inside the structure, it hasn't been easy. 

What do they mean when they say "while the Biospherians have managed 
to live for a year inside the structure"?

I thought I saw a newspaper report that one or more of them had left
it temporarily, and then returned.   Was I mistaken?

jon.
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:21777 alt.messianic:3746
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Hormesis/Homeopathy
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 19:08:47 GMT

carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes:
: 
: Do you know what the requirement for winning a lawsuit that you've filed is?
: 	1)  You must convince a jury of people selected on the basis of their
: 	    inability to understand what the lawsuit's about that you've got
: 	    a valid claim.
:

I have been told by friends who should know, that if I get called for
petit jury duty, I probably wouldn't get selected for a jury because
I'm an engineer.  (The prosecution and defense both get to reject a
certain number of prospective jurors without cause.)  Supposedly,
trial lawyers don't like presenting cases to people with technical or
scientific backgrounds because they are too likely to decide the case
based on the evidence.  Can't have that, can we.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  ich bin in einem
Rosemount Inc.                                |dusenjet ins jahr 53 vor
                                              |chr...  ich lande im antiken
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |Rom...  einige gladiatoren
                                              |spielen scrabble...  ich
                                              |rieche PIZZA...
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: Clayten_Hamacher@mindlink.bc.ca (Clayten Hamacher)
Subject: Homeopathic remedies
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 17:13:18 GMT

>>>If they are, it's only because they don't want to overtreat you.  You see,
>>>another principle of homeopathy is that the more dilutions, the stronger
the
>>>effect.  According to homeopathy, an 8% solution of anything should have
>>>virtually no effect at all.
>
>>IF dilution strength is the key defining element to homeopathy, I have a
>>hard time believing in homeopathy, although I don't completely count it
out.

If it was true that the more diluted something is the more powerful it is
then please explain why people in mexico city are dyeing from polution
*because it is so concentrated* and people in the NWT in Canada are not
dyeing from polution (where there is almost zilch).

And if this was true we'd be paying companies to pollute the atmosphere
because until the industrial revolution we'd all have been suffering from the
incredibly diluted amounts of lead in the air, (same with arsenic etc..) and
we'd all have had radiation burns from the radioactive elements deep within
the planet. If dilution makes things stronger then I dare you to walk through
Chernobyl and stop by the reactor.. Check out the damaged core..


GET REAL! The less of something the more powerful it is? Astrology has more
of a rational base than that! Why do you fall for this stuff? Religion isn't
enough of a crutch for you? You're a con-man's dream.. Most people only get
fooled by things that sound reasonable, you'd be a piece of cake!

P.S. Want some Super-Nova insurance? If this side of the galaxy gets
destroyed by a superheated ball of plasma I'll reimburse you for all property
damage that you suffer.

--

Clayten_Hamacher@Mindlink.bc.ca                 Land of the rising snow.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.messianic