HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: solodov@monterey1.cs.wisc.edu (Mikhail V. Solodov)
Subject: Re: SUGGESTION FOR WORLD CUP GAMES ENDING IN TIES
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:23:54 GMT

In article <psima01.726770788@convex> psima01@convex.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Maisack) writes:
>In <C0oys4.DKL@imag.fr> girault@imag.fr (Alain Girault) writes:
>
>>In article <1993Jan9.014529.21612@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> rgj0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (RICHARD G. JOHNSTON) writes:
>>>The penalty kick procedure used to end tie games during the World Cup is, in
>>>my opinion, a poor solution to the problem. Here is my alternative to breaking
>>>ties. At the end of regulation make both sides play with only nine players for
>>>some period of time, maybe 10 minutes. If the game is still tied 1 more player
>>>would be pulled from each side every five or ten minutes. With such an
>>>approach at least the game would be determined on the field. Anyone who has
>>>played soccer realizes fewer players on the same size pitch opens up the game.
>>>Previous World Cup had too many teams trying to play to play to a scoreless 
>>>tie in order to take their chances with penalty kicks. Any other alterantives?
>
>>Yes: sudden death right after the normal time; actually this exists in some 
>>sports like water-polo.
>
>>Alain.
>
>
>>-- 
>
>>Alain GIRAULT
>
>>Laboratoire de Genie Informatique
>
>that would have cost us such classics at Germany-Italy in 1970
>(Germany wins 2:1) and France-germany in 1982 (France wins 2-1).
			^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>it might have spared us a lot more boring games, though.
>
>Michael

   If you are talking about the World Cup game, then
   as I recall , it was  1-1 in regulation, 3-3 after overtime,
   and Germany won the penalty series.
   Michael.
From: cmorris@Ingres.COM (Colin Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: English News: results/tables, Mon 28th Dec
Date: 6 Jan 93 17:58:46 GMT
Organization: Ingres, an ASK Company, Alameda CA 94501

In article <14059@ecs.soton.ac.uk> tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Tim Chown) writes:
>A full set of games were played on Monday ... Villa and Man Utd
>continue to close the gap on Norwich ...
>
> ... all the boring results deleted :-)
>
>GM Vauxhall Conference:
>
>KIDDERMINSTER 1-0 BROMSGROVE	4,324 (!)
>Deakin 82
>
I wish I could have been at this one. Kidderminster and Bromsgrove has
always been a great local non-league rivalry from back in the days
(20-25 years ago) when they both played in the West Midlands League.
Their paths have diverged somewhat since then with Kidderminster
moving up the pyramid faster than Bromsgrove. Now Bromsgrove are
fourth in the GMVC:- it just shows you what a small town club can achieve.

>
>Yeovil        2-1 Bath        	6,488 (!!)
>                               
                                ^^^^^
No doubt they were selling tickets for the Arsenal game?

>Top:
>                   P  W  D  L  F  A PTS
> 1 Wycombe W      22 16  3  3 58 15 51
> 2 Slough Town    19 12  3  4 33 21 39
> 3 Dagenham & R   21 10  7  4 38 19 37
> 4 Bromsgrove     22  9  8  5 31 24 35

Go Rovers!!

--
Colin Morris    Ingres, an ASK Group company     cmorris@ws2s.ingres.com

"conservatives don't know how to conserve anything except their own
privileges and wealth"
From: colins@praxis.co.uk (Colin Shield)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: SOCCER NEWSGROUP
Date: 10 Jan 93 20:54:48 GMT
Organization: Praxis, Warwick, U.K.

In article <1993Jan8.164159.21570@meiko.com> esp@meiko.co.uk writes:
>
>In article 7637@fwi.uva.nl, bronstri@fwi.uva.nl (Mischa Bronstring) writes:
>> motta@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nazare Motta) writes:
>> 
>> >Hey guys,
>> >Does anybody there is interested in spliting this newsgroup in two? 
>> >Something like "Rec.soccer.England" and "Rec.soccer.rest of the world"?
>
>Great idea!
>
>We could call the English newsgroup "Rec.football" and the other "Rec.pretenders"!!
>
>The English game is still the most entertaining, I don't care what anyone says!
>
>Steve
>
>You'll never beat The Gas - A message to any Bristol City fans out there!

  Bristol City 1  Newcastle United 2

No, but we will. I've just got back from Bristol after watching
Newcastle give Bristol City the sound thrashing they deserved.
Everybody in the away end noticed that Dennis Smith had managed to get
Bristol City playing in the same manner as Sunderland used to when he
was their manager - BADLY. It was very entertaining as the two Bristol
City supporters were in the seats above the away end and took great
pleasure in their opening goal. They weren't so happy with 20 minutes
to go when nearly all of their fans had left. I bumped into some
Rovers fans on the Gloucester Road on Saturday night and they heartily
thanked me for the result over City. I promised them the same kind of
result when they visit St. James.
Ah yes 14 points clear and I think it's all in the bag.


Colin Shield
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: waddlech@wam.umd.edu (David Akkarach)
Subject: Re: Barnes should move on !
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:01:56 GMT

In article <16B5012D01.074SPOCK@Witsvma.wits.ac.za> 074SPOCK@Witsvma.wits.ac.za writes:
>The way Liverpool is run nowdays, I think a talented player like John
>Barnes is wasting his time there. That present environment is not
>healthy for him and is going to ruin his career. He should seriously
>think of moving off to Italy or elsewhere in Europe. Sorry no place
>for you at Manchester United, they still do have standards there
>you know !

Barnes wasting his time there? Barnes is a waste of a player just like
the rest of the scouse lot. He belongs going down with the rest of them.

-Waddle
From: ifenton@crc.ac.uk (I. Fenton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: ... a nice little (true!) story
Date: 6 Jan 93 15:15:04 GMT
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre

In article <1993Jan6.145602.2364@crc.ac.uk> pgardner@crc.ac.uk (Phil Gardner) writes:
[stuff deleted]
>
>What was the team?

nottm forest ?

>
>Who was the awfully nice manager who gave the 50-pound note secretly to my friend?

brian clough (the next england manager - not!)

>
>Any guesses, before I post the answer?! (Hint: examine the wording of the manager's statement...)
>

=============================================================================
IAIN FENTON                             | All errors of spelling, grammar &
Institute of Medical Genetics           | fact are due to a missing <Del> key
University of Wales College of Medicine |====================================
Heath Park                              | "No man should marry until he has
Cardiff  CF4 4XN                        |  studied anatomy and dissected at
U.K.                                    |  least one woman" - de Balzac
=============================================================================
Voice = +44 - 222 - 744049   | In 1912, Jack Johnson, the first black world
Fax   = +44 - 222 - 747603   | heavyweight boxing champion, was refused
Email = fenton@uk.ac.cardiff | permission to board the Titanic because of
   (or) ifenton@uk.ac.crc    | his colour.
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: My solution for tied games
From: M.Letort@massey.ac.nz (M. Letort)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 21:49:13 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

There are some good solutions, I like the idea of taking out a player.

My suggestion is the following:

	If the match is still tied after 90 minutes, go to supplementary time,
	say two 10 minute halfs, the game should stop if any of the teams 
	score during this time.

	If the match is still tied after the extra 20 minutes, take one player
	out, ONLY the goalkeeper and play for two halfs of 5 minutes, if still 
	tied ??? perhaps the two teams don't deserve to win.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: girault@imag.fr (Alain Girault)
Subject: Re: SUGGESTION FOR WORLD CUP GAMES ENDING IN TIES
Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 13:28:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.014529.21612@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> rgj0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (RICHARD G. JOHNSTON) writes:
>The penalty kick procedure used to end tie games during the World Cup is, in
>my opinion, a poor solution to the problem. Here is my alternative to breaking
>ties. At the end of regulation make both sides play with only nine players for
>some period of time, maybe 10 minutes. If the game is still tied 1 more player
>would be pulled from each side every five or ten minutes. With such an
>approach at least the game would be determined on the field. Anyone who has
>played soccer realizes fewer players on the same size pitch opens up the game.
>Previous World Cup had too many teams trying to play to play to a scoreless 
>tie in order to take their chances with penalty kicks. Any other alterantives?

Yes: sudden death right after the normal time; actually this exists in some 
sports like water-polo.

Alain.


-- 

Alain GIRAULT

Laboratoire de Genie Informatique
From: rich_b@sn4402.oldham.gpsemi.com (Richard Bogusz)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Just another example of the 'fabulous' English
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:47:46 GMT
Organization: GEC Plessey Semiconductors

In article <1993Jan5.102553.9177@fwi.uva.nl>, bronstri@fwi.uva.nl (Mischa Bronstring) writes:
Stuff deleted
 
|> You'll all now the result (2-2) by now. Just another example of what the
|> English premier league means... Bolton TWO (!!!) divisions lower than 
|> Liverpool, one of the so-called 'top-teams' in England. What a joke! 
|> That kind of results can only be true in England. Liverpool, IF it were the
|> top-team it pretends to be, should have easily CRUSHED Bolton, just by the
|> status the team has. But no, they play 2-2. Nowhere in Europe the (real)
|> top-teams make a laugh of themselves in that way. They just win with 3 or 4
|> goals difference, just because they ARE top-teams!

further to your comments about the English cup results.  In Britain just
because a team is in the second or third division it does not mean it has
to capitualte to "greater" opposition before the games starts.  I remember
hearing that Juventus had conceded the Italian title already to AC Milan.

Lower teams do not give the top teams so much respect that they won't give
the team a real game.  The game is played on a football pitch not on paper!

Do you think that the Danes should have gone into the European cup final 
4-0 down because they were playing Germany then?

Secondly if Stauart Pearce is considered to be the best full back in the country
and his team is relegated, does that make him a duff player?  If he is loyal
enough to stay with a club IF it is relegated then surely that is a virtue and
a sign that the guy has confidence in his own ability.

Rich
-- 
_________________________________________________________________________

Richard Bogusz				"You can lead a horse to water..
GEC Plessey Semiconductors LTD		But a pencil must be lead!"
Oldham, United Kingdom.				Stan Laurel 
E-mail: rich_b@oldham.gpsemi.com
_________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: skip@sloth.nrl.navy.mil (Skip Kovacs)
Subject: Re: US vs England in Boston area
Organization: Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:13:37 GMT

In article <sfH9eBy00VQpA0u1cw@andrew.cmu.edu> cat+@andrew.cmu.edu (Chris Alan  
Thyberg) writes:
> How does one get tickets for US Cup matches?
> 
> 	-c-

In the Washington DC area tickets for England v Brasil (the only game played  
here) go on sale next week.  Check your local paper/ticket service (here we've  
gotten tickets through Ticketron).  

Go to a game!  Support soccer!

skip
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: MOORES@BNR.CA (Richard Moores)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Followup-To: rec.sport.soccer
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:42:37 GMT

Welcome to the NET Martin. It is nice to have another Liverpool fan around,
besides Donie in Holland, who is hopefully one with an objective point of
view!! 

For your enlightenment there are some LFC supporting netters, who shall
remain nameless, that have complete tunnel vision when it comes to
discussing Footy, and needless to say there are many other netters who
delight in seeing the Reds fail. Its never a dull moment, but I hope that
you represent the more rational type of Reds fan who can help to keep the
L'Pool bashers at bay !!


Cheers,

...Richard

Richard Moores - Koppite In Exile                     
Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada.  
MOORES@BNR.CA                            
FAX:(613) 763-7283 Phone:(613) 763-4687 
My opinions, not BNR's   


Liverpool Football Club
THE most succesfull English Club
of all time...just check the facts
From: cjones@dbaccess.com (Carl Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: FIFA Laws of the Game on-line
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:58:02 GMT
Organization: Cross Access Corp., Santa Clara, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

With thanks to several people, I have an on line copy of the Laws of the Game
which I have almost completed updating to the 1992 rules (Memorandum 1992).
I can only devote part time to it, but I hope to have it ready in a week or
two.  I have had suggestions as to how to post it (as a FAQ?) and arrange it
so that it is available (monthly repost?) but I need to re-read the mail that
I got on those subjects to really understand it.  Watch here for details.
carl jones
ps
the "OK" that I got from FIFA for making them available here on-line was that
they not be used for commercial purposes.
-- 
Carl Jones                        INTERNET: cjones@dbaccess.com
c/o CROSS ACCESS CORPORATION      UUCP: {uunet,sgiblab}!troi!cjones
2900 Gordon Avenue, Suite 100     FAX: (408) 735-0328
Santa Clara, CA 95051             TEL: (408) 735-7545
From: CSALLEN@uga.cc.uga.edu (Christopher S. Allen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Proposal for League in USA & CDN
Date: 12 Jan 1993 12:20:58 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Andy,

I have no problem with Chattenooga, in fact the southeast (outside of
Florida) is missing in our proposal. I think Marcus' idea was to go
to cities where there was either an existing WC site, or cities which
proved that in the NASL days that they could regularly support
12,000 - 20,000 fans per game. This is usually major metro areas,
although some cities on his list (Portland, OR) don't fall into that
category.

Hey, at some level this is all negotiable.

For my money, even though I am only 60 mi from Atlanta and would love
to see a pro team here, I don't think there is the community support
for it at all. The media is actually anti-soccer, with no coverage
of European soccer, the US World Cup squad, or of the 37 Americans
now playing professionally in Europe or Latin America.

Best, Chris

|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Prof. Christopher S. Allen                  Voice: (706) 542-2984  |
| Political Science Department                  FAX: (706) 542-4421  |
| University of Georgia                  Bitnet: csallen@uga.bitnet  |
| Athens, GA 30602 - USA           Internet: csallen@uga.cc.uga.edu  |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
From: leslie@coral.harvard.edu (Wayne Leslie)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: US vs England in Boston area
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:41:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1993Jan6.184150.19302
Organization: Physical Oceanography, Harvard University



From the pages of the Boston Globe, 6 Jan 93

(reprinted without permission)

US match set for Foxboro

By Frank Dell'Apa
Globe Staff

The US national team will meet England in a US Cup match June 9
in the first of two matches planned this year at Foxboro Stadium.
The US tentatively is scheduled to meet a European club team
July 31 in conjunction with the annual general meeting of the
US Soccer Federation.

This will be the fifth meeting of the US and England since the 
1950 World Cup, when the US accomplished one of the greatest 
sporting upsets ever - a 1-0 vistory on Joe Gaetjen's goal in
Belo Horizonte, Brazil.

England has decisively won each rematch - 6-3 in New York in 
1953, 8-1 in Los Angeles in 1959, 10-0 in New York in 1964 and
5-0 in Los Angeles in 1985.

England is attempting to qualify for the World Cup finals, scheduled
in nine US cities June 17 - July 17, 1994.  The English are second
behind Norway in Europe Group 2 qualifying and will have played six 
of their 10 qualifying matches before the US Cup game.  The US, 
which has not won a match in the World Cup finals since defeating
England, has qualified as the host country.

"We're hoping for a great crowd to show FIFA that this is a good,
viable soccer venue," said Reidar Tryggestad, World Cup venue
director for Boston/Foxborough.  "Historically and traditionally,
England is considered one of the kingpins in international soccer.
It is perceived to be the cradle of modern soccer and it has a
good draw on its name."

The US has not scored against England since Eddie Murphy's goal
May 28, 1959.

The US Cup tournament will begin June 6, with the US meeting Brazil
in New Haven.  Only one other date has been set - June 19 for
England vs Germany in Pontiac, Mich.

"Knowledgeable people will recognize this as a top-class tournament,"
said England coach Graham Taylor on a recent visit to Boston.


See all the local RSS people at the game?

Wayne Leslie
leslie@coral.harvard.edu
From: rcampb@cac.washington.edu (Russ Campbell )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: US vs England in Boston area
Date: 7 Jan 1993 21:22:52 GMT
Organization: UW Computing
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: redx.cac.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan6.184150.19302@das.harvard.edu>, leslie@coral.harvard.edu (Wayne Leslie) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> See all the local RSS people at the game?
|> 

Local?  Hell, if it were within 500 miles of me I'd be there & take my Mum
as her birthday gift (June 9th and she's from England).  Alas, USSF seems
to want to completely ignore the Pacific Northwest so it's not within 500
miles and I won't be there.  Maybe we'll have a miracle and ABC/ESPN will
use the tournament to begin warming its audience up for WC94?  Nah, too
much to ask I suppose.

-russ
From: PKARLIOT%KNOX.BITNET@UICVM.UIC.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Just another example of the 'fabulous' English
Date: 6 Jan 1993 21:38:30 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

      Well, maybe Souness should be sacked soon, as long as his sacking will
turn things around.  I have been a Liverpool fan also, for more than 10 years
and I don't like what I see right now.  I support a move to sack Souness, but
only if that will create changes in the team.  And I mean changes for the better
   of course.  I agree that he is the worst Liverpool manager in the last 30 yea
   rs,but his sacking, if it takes place, should be a force that will create
significant changes for the better in Liverpool.
     Sorry for being a bit repetitive.
                                                                    Panos
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: yhartojo@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Francis Hartojo)
Subject: Soccer game at ASU's Sun Devil stadium.
Organization: Somewhere in the middle of nowhere
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:01:06 GMT

     I caught a glimpse of an announcement about a soccer match at Arizona
State's Sun Devil stadium yesterday, but since the announcement is in spanish
and I only got the last part of it, I didn't get who'll be playing in the
match and when will it happen.  I think one of them is Denmark.  But I still
need info on who's the other team, when will the match be played, and where
can I get the ticket.

     Any info will be greatly appreciated.

P.S.:  In case you haven't guessed by now, I just happen to be attending ASU
       and I don't want to miss a great chance of seeing a world-class soccer
       game LIVE!
--
+----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Francis Hartojo                  | Bitnet:   AUYXH@ASUACVAX.BITNET       |
| Comp. Science & Engr. Department | Internet: YHARTOJO@ENVMSA.EAS.ASU.EDU |
| Arizona State University         | Phone:    (602) 921-1342              |
From: clgs11@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: SOUNESS V SMITH (and McAvennie)
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:52:20 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article <1993Jan7.142419.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
> In article <1993Jan7.141141.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, clgs11@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
>> In article <1993Jan7.130740.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
>>> In article <1993Jan7.123913.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, clgs11@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
>>>> In article <1993Jan6.183038.2661@dct.ac.uk>, mcsdc1jpb@dct.ac.uk (john bell) writes:
> 
> 
>> You seem to have a fixation about Celtic, I thought Rangers were now on par
>> with the AC Milans etc. of this world ????? You seem to compare everything they
>> are doing to what Celtic are doing. Why ???? Is it that you realise Rangers are
>> good but not great and it doesn't matter if they don't win in Europe at least
>> they've beaten Celtic.????
> 
> 
> 	No fixation or hang ups, it just seems Celtic are a convenient
> example to use  of how not to buy success  :-)  I also mentioned ManU if
> you'd care to check.

Ah !! of course, it's convenient. You therefore agree that all Rangers are
doing is buying (domestic) Success by your comparison. At least you're honest.

Apologies for not noticing your reference to Man Utd. 

> 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>                                        +
> Sandy Mackinnon,                       + 
> At the Cutting Edge of Fuel Science,   + 
> University of Strathclyde,             +      cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk 
> Glasgow,                               + 
> Scotland.                              +  
> 	  	                       +
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> "I'm glad to be back at one of the biggest clubs in Europe"
> -Frank McAvennie on rejoining Celtic.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: SSL
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:35:27 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article <1993Jan8.105216.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, clgp14@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
> Celtic's New Plan For League Domination.
> 
> From this mornings Herald it was reported that Celtic has turned its back
> on the new Scottish Super League after making a donation of around 300,000
> pounds (enough for a new Celtic striker).
> Is this the Celtic plan for league domination, are they thinking of joining
> the first division to try and win some glory or is this just a case of hard
> cheese from a club who are looking like going down the bog anyway?


	Maybe they'l win the 1st Division next season (Scottish League
version) and get into Europe !! At the end of the day, we don't need them
to fill Ibrox but they need us to fill Parkhead.  They'll be hoping they can
draw us in a cup competition next season, just to make some extra money.


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                                       +
Sandy Mackinnon,                       + 
At the Cutting Edge of Fuel Science,   + 
University of Strathclyde,             +      cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk 
Glasgow,                               + 
Scotland.                              +  
	  	                       +
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I'm glad to be back at one of the biggest clubs in Europe"
-Frank McAvennie on rejoining Celtic.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-