From: lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu (Luis Miguel Silveira)
Subject: Re: about ET. to Mr Silveira
Reply-To: lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu
Organization: Research Laboratory of Electronics, Massachusetts Institute of
	Technology
	<1992Nov11.130916.44627@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:02:22 GMT



Mr. Hsiahaan,

   In article <1992Nov11.130916.44627@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
   hsiahaan@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:


   Mr Luis M Silveira
   i cannot believe reading the way you are answering my first
   posting. dont you recognize your position ?

My position is that of a concerned individual.  That I happen to be a
Portuguese citizen is incidental and does not take away my right to be
concerned nor does it in any way diminish the severity of the
situation.

It would be totally inappropriate from you to disregard my opinion
simply because I am Portuguese (although you are welcome to disregard
it because you may not agree with it or for any other reason).

Several non-Portuguese people have expressed the same opinion
(including the witnesses to the November 12th 1991 massacre, all of
whom were nationals of countries other than Portugal).  What would you
say those those people?  Would you listen to them?

   can a loser tell
   someone how to be a winner ? can a chicken tell a monkey how to
   climb a tree ? cant you get what i am saying ?

I cannot see what "victory" or "defeat" you are talking about.  You
seem to imply that Portugal "lost" something.  I believe that only the
East Timorese have lost anything in this whole unfortunate situation!

   if you admit portugal has indeed neglected ET, how would you suppose we will
   listen to you, a portuguese ?

Notice the difference between "Portugal" and "Portuguese" (the very
same words you use).  The fact that I am Portuguese does not make me
(necessarily) a supporter of the policy of my government in general,
and in particular of those policies that were in effect before I was
even born.  So I think you can listen to me as an individual.

The question you may well put is whether you should listen to Portugal
(the country, its government, its policies).  My opinion is that you
should and in fact this question has been answered by your own
government, as the two governments have indeed met to discuss the
issues (and have scheduled other meetings).

   you are in no way has any right
   telling us what to do about ET because what has happened now in ET
   is partly due to portugal negligence. portugal, in other words, is
   INCOMPETENT & IRRESPONSIBLE too.

In the matter of East Timor I will agree with you that Portugal has
responsabilities and shares the blame for the situation.  However it
seems that (some thing) it can help in the search for a solution.
Otherwise why do you think the Indonesian government itself would meet
with the Portuguese government to discuss the situation in East Timor.

   got it ? that is why in my first sentence of my first letter i have
   written not to listen to portuguese, because they have given no
   good history if it is about ET.

I understood this.  This is prejudice and this is what you should get
rid of.  Am I necessarily supportive of the actions of Portugal in
East Timor in the past 400 years just because I am portuguese?  You do
not know that, so you are prejudiced by judging me without knowing
what I mean.

   do you know what the difference between invasion and integration is ? iraq
   invaded kuwait. US invaded granada. indonesia integrated ET.

The difference between invasion and integration can be simply put as
being the difference between which side you are.  Iraq claimed to have
integrated Kuwait (and not invaded it).  More to the point even now
Indonesia claims it invaded East Timor and later integrated it (they
claim they were asked for support when they invaded).

So your government does not agree with you.  But again this a mute
point because as I said the difference is subjective.

   while for hundreds of years they treated them like strangers. the way i see 
   it personally, this 'noise' from portugal is coming from the embarassment 
   because now every body in the world knows how portugal treated ET.

"Now" everybody in the world knows how Portugal treated East Timor?
Now?  Maybe you only heard about incidents in East Timor because of
the recent events, but be assured they have been known for many years
(there are books on the subject!).  Portugal has been working on a
solution for many years.  The issue has been discussed at the UN more
than once.

This isn't happening just now.  It has been happening ever since
Indonesia invaded East Timor.  But maybe you were unaware of it...

The important difference is that now, for the first time there has
been a large amount of international concern as the issue became more
visible because there were witness in November 12th and there is a
video!.

So now, Indonesia, for the _first_ time in 17 years, suddenly wants to
talk things over.  So I ask you, who do you think is getting
embarrassed?  Using your words, now the world knows how _Indonesia_ is
treating East Timor!!!

   listen to your conscience Mr. Silveira, do you really think ET is going 
   to be better with indonesia doing development there or with portugal doing 
   nothing.

Mute point again.  The issue is what the East Timorese want, not what
Indonesia or Portugal want.  Portugal's role as I view it is that of a
mediator (and the Indonesian government seems to have the same view).

   again what indonesia needs is chance and time.

And what do you think the East Timorese want?  Isn't it time we find out?

   gives us another 25
   years and see what would happen.if we are still around, mr silveira, we
   might want to discuss this again.

At the rate things have been happening we run the risk that there will
be nothing to discuss in 25 years as the whole population will likely
have been killed.

   thank you

Best regards,

-Miguel
--
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Luis Miguel Silveira                            e-mail : lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu
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