From: cohen@GOMEZ.phys.virginia.edu
Subject: Problem report regarding Frank(Francis) HO, Ohio State University
Reply-To: cohen@GOMEZ.phys.virginia.edu
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:37:37 GMT

I have a Net purchase problem with Frank (Francis) HO,
E-mail address:  HO@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu .

Here are the FACTS of what has happened.  I try to be very matter-of-fact
when telling the facts, without inserting any personal views.

Ho has adrvertised a small TI-99/4A system (the Texas instruments Home
Computers of the early 1980's).  I have contacted him regarding some of the
items, and we nogotiated for a while.  That round ended without any agreement
(early November, 1992).
Here is what he told me about the system:
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From:	"HO@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu" 30-OCT-1992 15:33:06.44
Subj:	Re:TI-99/4A
From: HO@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu
Subject: Re:TI-99/4A
To: cohen@gomez.phys.virginia.edu

Hi:  

Thanks for your offer.  Let me tell you the cond. of the system.

It WORKS perfectly.  The cosmetic is also very good.
(Note:  I have only left the lines that related to the items I was interested
in;  there were a few more items I didn't want to buy)
- 8 different-type joysticks for any games on this machine  
- programing (BASIC/book) and word processing (NORDWRITE) catridges/books 
- BRAND NEW data storage via an original TI program recorder included.   
- NEW printer interface PARAPRINT included. (use any PC parallel printer)

I think you will agree with me those items are hard to find today(in good cond)
and it's better to collect the complete set (in good. cond.).  They are priced
much lower than they were purchased but also lower than what's in thrift 
store today.  I hope anyone take the whole system and they will be happy.

It sits in my closet for a while now I need money to fix my PC hard drive.
  
Thanks for asking.

Frank
Chemistry
Ohio State Univ.
Columbus, OH n 43210
ho@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu

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And in a further message-
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From:	"HO@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu" 30-OCT-1992 15:56:53.39
Subj:	Re: Re:TI-99/4A

I do want to sell the whole system to list them separately just to show you
the fairness as you can see.  

(you may immagine how many clean neat pieces you will get).  

The main unit looks very new and you may want to keep it and sell yours
for $15 to make up the difference.  But you will have a complete system.

I appreciate you time.

Frank
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And here is the reason Ho refused to sell part of the system in the first
round of negotiations-
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From:	"HO@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu" 30-OCT-1992 16:22:55.18
Subj:	Re: Re:TI-99/4A

You have to understand I didn't agree with your previous offer because
you took the word processing/interface leaving the machine worthless (
in selling).  As common sense you always have to higher when you buy things
separately.

There is one guy in PA wanted the word processor. He will pay $9 for 
only the cartridge.  So now you know where people are upto and I have 
say it's a good deal.  We are very very close, dod you see that?

Thanks.

Frank
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Then there was a change-
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From:	MX%"HO@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu" 30-OCT-1992 17:34:12.90
Subj:	Re: Re:TI-99/4A

The new deal will be:

word processor
interface
6 joysticks
recorder
shipping

one free game

I think I will give the machine away if you agree to take away
the above by Mon.
(Note: I never got the machine itself despite what the above line reads)

Thanks.

Frank
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From:	"HO@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu" 30-OCT-1992 17:56:31.91
Subj:	Re: Re:TI-99/4A

Hey wait a minute.  You didn't get what I posted at the first place.

(1) Joysticks are part TI part third party.
They work on TI-99/4A.

(2) Word Processor is a cartridge (now every body is after that)

(3) The recorder can store text file (word processor) or Basic program
file.

I give away a free game just to make everybody happy.  What's the
use of one game.

I am not using it at all.  I bought because I was trying to keep it
now got to spend money on something else.  I don't want to
keep anything, I still prefer someone to take the whole system
(I get a little less but save me some time).

Oh, there is instructions for the recorder and the word processor is
very self explaining.

Got to go.

Frank
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I tried to get more details on what Ho was actually selling, and couldn't.
At that time I got a bit confused and felt there was something Ho was hiding.
But that was MY FEELING (I would like to make clear that I am just conveying
an impression I had at that time).

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From:	"HO@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu" 30-OCT-1992 18:21:57.16
Subj:	Re: Re:TI-99/4A

I don't know who is causing the confusion.  Let me make mysel clear, OK?

Two options you have:
[...]
(2) Take 
word processor
interface
recorder
6 -joysticks (I have to keep one pair for the unit you left me)
one free game (munchman-I only remember this)

I don't want to keep anything.  I an not a TI user even I know how to use
it.  I have to keep one pair of joysticks and two games if you go wiht
(2) leaving me the unit.  I don't have any other TI stuff around, 
all right.  If you take all thegames and joysticks why leave me
with the unit, everybody can see that.

[...] I have
been doing these over the net for quite long time never have 
problems.  

I am hoping you can see I am not making any money herr by doing this and 
do want to decieve anyone either.  I never really have time to play 
vedio games so don't askme whether or not I am keeping...no way.

The bottom line I don't want to see a TI-99 going to a dumpster (if
you take all the accesoories) so I priced it so people will buy
the whole system.  I don't have any TI user around here.  Take it all
you get great deal and I save time.

Thanks.

Give a thought over the weekend and reply anytime.

No hard feeling please.

Frank
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Since we could not agree on a price, I decided not to take the above items
at that time.  But on Monday, 11/2/92 thinkgs changed agin-
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From:	MX%"HO@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu"  2-NOV-1992 16:33:45.96
Subj:	Re: Re:TI-99/4A


Let's make the deal.  Please send payment to:

Frank Ho
Box 186
Chemistry
OSU
140 W 18th Ave
Columbus, OH 43210
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I sent payment.  I intentionally do not mention the amount involved, since the
point here is not how much it cost; rather it is business practices and
honesty.  Prior to sending money I tried to make sure what I was getting,
since I realize that Net deals are prone to misunderstandings and honest
mistakes.  But here I explicitely made sure there was mutual understanding
regarding the deal.

When the package finally arrived 2 weeks after I sent payment, it was a pile
of items, some of them irrelevant, some nonworking, some missing parts...

It came in a box sent via official Ohio State University mail with a
Departmental account number on the mailing label.

and here is my letter to HO that went out immediately-

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From:	GOMEZ::COHEN        18-NOV-1992 13:16:57.99
To:	%"HO@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu"
Subj:	Re: Re:TI-99/4A

Hello:

I have received the package.

I am very upset and annoyed.  Much more than I can recall ever being with regard


You have litarally sent me a collection of unrelated, irrelevant items that do
not or cannot be made to work.

Lets us go over them one-by-one:

1.  The joysticks-  there is a pair of joysticks from an Atari game system.
They are wired differently than the TI joysticks and do not, and WILL NOT,
work on a TI-99/4A.  MOREOVER, even IF they do work on an Atari system
(which is irrelevant to the TI system), they are missing the top cover
and are NOT sellable in this shape.  
Then there is a pair of Atari paddles.  These use potentiometers (analog
joysticks) and the TI uses on/off contact switches.  I don't know why you
have sent those, and they won't work on a TI-99/4A.
I am very annoyed that you said that all joysticks will work on a TI-99/4A.
I would like to think you just made an honest mistake and will repair the
situation as soon as possible.

2.  The Program Recorder (cassette storage)- this unit is missing both the
power cable and the data cable.  the manual states that both cables are part
of the unit.  How could you say that it works without those cables?

3.  The printer interface- AGAIN very partial. There is an edge-card connector
at the end, where a printer cable should plug (with the other end to the
printer).  This cable is missing, and is a special cable that should come
with the interface and cannot be obtained from standard computer stores.
It is part of the package.  There is another plug on the unit, my only guess
is that this is for power supply, again you have not sent it.
I plugged the interface to the side of the TI-99/4A as required, and when
I tried to OPEN the printer file I got an error message- the computer
does not know about the existence of the interface.  Likewise a self-test
does not work.  Whether the unit is defective, dead, or does not work due
to lack of parts I do not know, but it does not work!  And you told me that
you have used it and it works.

4.  The Word processor- this is the only item so far that seems to work, but
you had no manual for it and you told me that is it VERY SELF-EXPALANATORY...
Well, I bet you never used it.  There is no menu, no help, just a blank
screen with some command abbreviations at the top line.  If you know how to use
it, you owe me an expalanation.

I find it hard to believe that you actually used all this.  But I still
hope that you have just left by mistake part of the equipment behind, and
that you will send all items as agreed upon promptly.  Otherwise, I would
like to have a partial refund of my money.

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And the response from Ho?

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From:	"HO@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu" 18-NOV-1992 15:42:52.45
Subj:	Re: Re:TI-99/4A

Hi:

I am very unsatidfied with the situation myself.  How much money do you
think I make on this deal?  How much money you get every hour where you
worked?  We have spent too much time back and forth over  the net on
things you have never seen or I can't verify.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I replied that the amount of money he was making on this was irrelevant.
What counted is that he did not ship the promised items in the promised
condition.  As for verification, everybody can tell whether or not part are
missing, this has nothing whatsoever to do with verification...
And I could not believe he has ever used that equipment...
Well  --

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From:	"HO@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu" 18-NOV-1992 16:18:25.73
Subj:	Re: Re:TI-99/4A

I feel very offened you demand for the power supply.  You were given a good
deal already (I told you before when you first time demanded for everything
leave me with nothing, a unit no  joysticks at all and you didn't want to
pay one buck more).  

I can buy a power cable for the recorder unit and parts for the data cable.
That's all I can do.

You were right about one thing, I ddin't spend much time using the unit.
I have no interest in it,honestly.  I am not keeping anything behind.
BTW, the main unit described above is sold.

How can you have a machine without a power supply?  Why I wasn't 
told that before, I wonder?  

The printer interface I saw it works on my machine, I never used it
myself (no interest) ti works and a friend showed me with a printer he 
had.  

Frank
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I felt I was right about my feelings prior to the deal.
Since Ho showed no interest in resolving the problems, I told him I would post
a public letter about it.
Ho only offered cables for the Program Recorder IF he can remember how to wire
them!;  I felt that he was just trying to gain time.  I told him that we need to
resolve all the problems, or I want a partial refund.

At that point I got no replies, despite reminders.  Using FINGER I could see
that HO was actually reading his mail.  I told him that, and then he said that
he can only supply the Recorder cables (again).

I have warned Ho that this message will be posted.

I also told him that a hard copy will go to his departrment, because I mailed
payment to the OSU departrment, and the package to me came on official
Ohio state university Departmental mail (Dept. of Chemistry) with
an official account number on the mailing label.  I therefore feel justified
to send a complaint to his departrmental authorities as well.
Again, I feel that this is mostly a matter of principle here, I am not
angry with Ho for mailing me defective items/partial shipment, but
I AM upset that he wouldn't listen to my complaints!

In case anybody else had problems with Frank (Francis) Ho, please let me know.

BTW, when FINGERing his account, there are 2 different names there.
I am not sure what that means.
Any help would be appreciated.

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