From: cms@dragon.com (Spawn of a Jewish Carpenter (Cindy Smith))
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re:  Jesus declares all foods clean
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:02:27 GMT
Organization: Computer Projects Unlimited


 I sent the following message to nt-greek@virginia.edu per Tom's 
request.  The message following this one is what I think is an 
adequate reply to the whole question.  Hope this helps!

From:	MX%"cms@dragon.com" 21-JUL-1992 17:51:19.58
To:	CMS
Subj:	Mark 7:19

 Greetings.  The following message was sent to me by a subscriber to
the alt.messianic newsgroup.  He requested that I forward it to the
New Testament Greek mailing list.  I'll collect the replies and post
them to alt.messianic.  Thanks!

>From:	MX%"tom%portland@tredysvr.tredydev.Unisys.COM" 21-JUL-1992 15:54:36.66
>To:	CMS
>Subj:	Mark 7:19 in the Greek
>
>Cindy,
>
>I don't know if you've continued to follow alt.messianic, but there has
>been some discussion of Mark 7:19, and whether the parenthetical phrase
>"(And thus He declared all food clean.)" is in the original or not.  All
>the modern translation seems to have the phrase, but it is missing in the
>KJV.  The claim by the MJs is that it is a later addition, and the verse
>cannot be used to claim that Jesus' was setting aside the old testament
>food laws.
>
>Since you have access to a Greek mailing list, would you post a query on the
>subject and share the response with alt.messianic?  Or send the response to
>me and I'll post it for the newsgroup.
>
>Thanks.

 According to Meztger's Textual Commentary, "The overwhelming weight
of manuscript evidence supports the reading katharidzwn.  The
difficulty of construing this word in the stence prompted copyists to
attempt various corrections and ameliorations."  A footnote says,
"Many modern scholars, following the interpretation suggested by
Origen and Chrysostom, regard katharidzwn as connected grammatically
with legei in ver. 18, and take it as the evangelist's comment on the
implications of Jesus' words concerning Jewish dietary laws."

 Also, the kai is omitted in most manuscripts; there is no "and" or
"and thus" or "then."  Also, the question mark occurs after the
brwmata, instead of after the ekporeuetai.  Obviously, the clause
after katharidzwn is a statement, not a question.

>--
>Tom Albrecht

Cindy Smith
cms@dragon.com

^ From:	MX%"PSYROBTW@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu" 21-JUL-1992 23:06:10.70
^ To:	CMS
^ Subj:	Mark 7:19
^
^    I consulted the Stephens 1550/Scrivener 1894 edition (TR) and the 1991
^Byzantine/Majority Textform edition.  The "all foods are clean," phrase is
^given as the words of Jesus:
^
^oti    ouk    eisporeuetai       autou    eiv   thn  kardian  all  eiv
^because       it does not enter  of him   into  the  heart    but  into
^
^thn  koilian  kai  eiv  ton   afedrwna   ekporeuetai  katharizon      panta
^the  stomach  and  and  into  the drain  it exits     make clean   all
^
^ta brwmata
^   foods
^
^     However, the ecletic Greek text in the 26th edition of the Nestle-Aland
^Greek New Testament, and in the 3rd edition of the United Bible Societies'
^Greek New Testament has _katharizwn_.
^
^	If we look at katharizwn in the literal sense of "make clean"
^we come with the reading of the KJV, "purging all meats." The NKJV
^conveys the same idea, with a nice slight twist: "purifying all foods."
^Purging has a sense of elimination that is needlessly applied here.
^Purge, coming from the Latin, purigare, stresses the act of making
^pure. So even with this view, we have a sense of Jesus making all
^foods clean.
^
^	If we look at katharizwn in the figurative sense, we would
^have "make clean" take on an almost Levitical sense, more like "declare
^clean" [like Leviticus 13:6, 23]. This would help to give the last
^part of this section as a type of comment by Mark: ``He (Jesus) (thus)
^declares clean all foods.''
^
^    	The section is in all of the major editions; there is nothing
^added or deleted from the text. The difference is whether we will take
^this as the words of Jesus, or as a comment of Mark. But even if we
^take this as the words of Jesus, even in a literal sense, there is still
^a shade of meaning that He purified all foods.
^
^ en agape,
^ Bob

In Jesus Son of Mary,

Cindy Smith
cms@dragon.com
Newsgroups: alt.messianic