From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: interesting [and scary] blurb...
Organization: Twilight Zone
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 01:11:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.184941.6791@mksol.dseg.ti.com> noonan@mksol.dseg.ti.com (Michael P Noonan) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.174740.18045@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>|> In article <1992Dec29.155304.16757@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
>|> >  The state of North Carolina has taken a very sensible approach 

	[snip -O- matic]

>|> 	This is fine Henry, as far as it goes, but what about the question

	[snip one mo' tahm...]
>
>How can anyone sit here and say, "I don't want so-and-so to have my
>organs because I don't agree with his political views."  I am personally
>disgusted that someone could have the potential to be so selfish to not
>share something of which they have no need.  

	First off, I did not say anything of the kind.  Second, that is a
	persons right.  If I choose to be so selfish, it is my prerogative
	and neither you nor anyone else has the right to force me to do
	otherwise.  And of course there are the religious issues to take
	into consideration.  So sorry, but as I have said before, push
	folks and they will push right back.  Push too hard and you'll have
	a war on your hands.  

>Everyone should be a donor.

	And how, pray tell, do you come to this conclusion?  Should we all
	become Jews?  Catholics?  Homosexuals?  Missionaries?  Satanists?
	I believe it is somewhat uncircumspect of you (or anyone else)	
	to make statements that so carelessly smack of mandate.  

>It shouldn't even be a question.  Why should your dead body have rights
>over it's organs?  Should your dead body still be considered a person
>according to the law?  What utter bullshit!

	What an utterly narrow view of things.  Your words imply that your 
	view is "right" and that all others are "wrong".  Talk about utter
	bullshit.

	And regarding denial of a donation to a given person, I have no
	problem with that either.  Let's say I'm one o' dem po' stupid
	niggerz.  Why should I donate my organs to, say, a KKK member or a skin
	head that would just as soon turn around and kill my kin?  I might
	rather see that bastard die than to give them a second chance to
	do me or mine some serious harm.  I see no obligation whatsoever to
	offer my organs unconditionally to one and all.

>|> 	And I also wonder how many ER doctors may get into the habit of
>|> 	becomming somewhat, shall we say "laid back" about fighting to save
>|> 	someone's life when they know that Senator Joe Scumbag has very
>|> 	discretely offered 1.5 million dollars for a pair of new kidneys for
>|> 	their very sick daughter.  Can you say "pressure from your superiors"?
>
>Complete bullshit.  That doctor should go to jail and never get out.
>Is this happening with organ donors now?  That is a completely
>unsubstantiated assertion.

	I never said it was substantiated.  But likewise I can say that
	just because it has not been substantiated that it necessarily follows
	that it does not happen.  Such an act would be VERY hard to prove
	short of a full confession on the part of those involved..
>
>|> 	I suppose this sounds a bit cynical, but nonetheless I am certain this
>|> 	would become quite a frequent occurrance.  When it comes to lives, 
>|> 	people will do almost anything and those of means will not hesitate
>|> 	to push evey button they can in order to get that which they want so
>|> 	badly. 
>
>Are you saying that a doctor will make no effort to save me if he knows
>that the paramedics found my driver's license and it said I was a donor?

	No, certainly not, but if I were looking REAL bad and might likely
	die in any event, a sufficiently motivated doctor might choose to
	"give up" on such a case earlier than if such pressures were absent.

	The senior administration persons might smile VERY kindly upon the
	doctor that  secured the organs for Sen. Joe Scumbag's daughter,
	thr reception of which would get that juicy million dollar donation
	to help build that new wing or trauma unit.

	Reports regarding the condition of the patient at time of death can be
	artfully written to make all appear rosy and proper.  The doctor used
	his expert professional judgement and decided that it was time to
	cease treatment.  

>Does this happen all the time now?  Do organ donors statistically have
>less of a chance to survive in an ER than non-donors?  Perhaps I will
>listen to your ranting when you demonstrate that this is the case.
>Hell, if this is true, I'll be screaming right along with you.

	I don't say that it *is* happening all the time, but rather that
	I see it as a distinct possibility.  I can also see the mindset
	slowly shifting from one of donation to one of OBLIGATION.  If *that*
	does not at least give you reason for pause, then I don't knw what
	to tell you.

	-Andy V.
Xref: sparky alt.society.civil-liberty:7214 talk.politics.guns:25855