From: ccb8m@onyx.cs.Virginia.EDU (Charles C. Bundy)
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:30:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.194832.21264@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Charles C. Bundy (ccb8m@onyx.cs.Virginia.EDU) wrote:
>:
>: Bzzzt, sorry Jerry, the Unix worm didn't require "immense" knowledge of
>: unix systems.  Any undergrad could have written it.  There was a backdoor
>: in mail such that the author could log in with system privleges to assist
>: the sysadmin with installation.  If your root, yer almighty as far as
>: unix is concerned, no clever hacks required to bypass memory protection,
>: or fiddle with the kernel.  The Morrison hack was a simple hunt and 
>: replicate.
>:
>
>Oh puh-leeze.  You don't have to have immense knowledge of Unix systems,
>but you do have to know about back doors in "mail".  Listen to yourself
>for a minute.  I've worked with Unix for 8 years, and I don't know about

8 years?  Is that all :)

>any such back doors.  Why does every person at my company go to the sysadmin

Because the backdoor no longer exists, of course :)  after the 1988 debacle
it was FIXED, just like the vi bug that used to let you save /tmp files as
root ... :)  How about default passwords in VMS for SYSTEM and FIELDOPERATOR?
Did you know those got FIXED too :)  Just because you never heard of it
doesn't mean it wasn't there Jerry.

>when they need temporary root access?  Why not just use the "mail" back door
>that "any undergrad" knows?  Nah, creating a self-replicating network-

Listen to yourself, neighbor.  YOU were the one claiming immense knowledge
of unix systems allowed the 'net virus' to be written, and all I did was
point out the matter of user access attributes.  Geez I must have struck
a nerve, aren't you the guy yammering against PERSONAL attacks?

>penetrating Unix virus is something "any undergrad" could do.  Do even *you*
>believe this BS?
>

Yes, and it isn't BS.  You underestimate the intelligence of yer average
undergrad.

>:
>: As far as the "second-week" student goes, anyone with no brains can frob
>: the power switch on a unix/mini/mainframe.  How's that for screwing up?
>:
>
>Multi-user systems typically sit in locked computer rooms.  Besides, we
>were talking about viruses.  I've yet to see a software program that can
>"frob" (whatever that means) a power switch.

What academic institution do you know of that doesn't have Sun's scattered
across the place.  Locking up computing resources at a university is an
oxymoronic.  Most of the industrial places I've worked at required escort
at the door, but their systems weren't locked up!  As a matter of fact
Boeing is pretty much an open shop, tho Cray research had to lock down
their dial in access in 1990, because of some hacker geek... Twas a damn
pain for those of us trying to do research/work remotely.


>
>:
>: Most second week students won't be using dynamic types (pointers) either,
>: so yer memory protection is a moot point...
>:
>
>Charles, have you ever taken a class in computer science?  The first one
>I took, a C programming course, introduced arrays during the second week.
>Consider this program:
>
>	int array[4];
>
>	main(){
>	   int i = 0;
>	   while(1)
>		array[i++] = rand();
>	}

Gee, I don't know how I got to be a CS grad, duh...  Where in my post was
I referencing C?  I should have been more specific and listed Pascal.  Plus
I've played those tricks on a non-hardware memory protected system, and I
always get user process violations before I trample on the kernel...

>
>This program uses no pointers or dynamic allocation.  It would kill AmigaOS,
>but an OS with memory protection would kill *it*.

It uses dynamic referencing implicitly.  ++ references a pointer type, good
buddy, otherwise how could you do something like

    *bitmap++ = *bitmap | Vpix;

Obviously bitmap is de-referenced.

>
>What are you trying to say, anyway, that memory protection is useless?  Shall
>we revive *that* thread?

No twit, I was implying that you didn't know what you were talking about
concerning Unix viruses...

>
>: Charles C. Bundy IV
>--
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
>| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
>|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+

Charles C. Bundy IV
ccb8m@virginia.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy