HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jtthorp@hubcap.clemson.edu (J. T. Thorpe)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Merchanting at Pennsic
Date: 8 Apr 92 11:47:00 GMT
Organization: Clemson University
Organizations:  Canton of Falcon Cree, Barony of Notting Hill Coill

Unto the fishers of the Rialto doth Elwood Wayward give greetings and
salutaions!

At the request of Baron Corwyn, I have been charged with discovering who
is in charge of merchanting at Pennsic this year.  You may consider this
missive as my formal request for information.  If anyone here knows who
is in charge of merchanting at Pennsic, please contact me via e-mail.

At your service,

Elwood Wayward

(email:  jtthorp@hubcap.clemson.edu)

PS:  	If my recent missives appear a little brisk(?), I apologize.  I am
	working under several different time constraints at the moment.
-- 
J.T.Thorpe		    * "Remember! The world can be saved by steam!"
Clemson University          *  	-- Prof. Johann Steamhead
Dept. of Computer Science   *  If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be
(803)656-2841 (803)653-5535 *  called RESEARCH!  -- ??
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: s314262@cs.uq.OZ.AU (Dylan Tusler)
Subject: Re:  SCA Digest V5 #188
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 05:26:04 GMT

Please unsubscribe me.

Dylan Tusler.
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Wm the Conqueror - Member?
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:44:37 GMT
Organization: Vanderbilt University student of numerology

To all upon the Rialto doth Charles send bemused greetings.

I have here seen a number of notices beneath the title, "William the
Conqueror, Member."  I knew not that William was a member of our Society.
Or was the reference to some other fellowship that he was a member of?
-- 
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
From: MPFOSTER@mtus5.cts.mtu.EDU (Wulfgar Silberbar)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: tacky combat? What makes it so tacky?
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:53:10 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Master Kobayashi tells us of a tournament to which he took three weapons
with him, and all onto the field. What is so incredibly tacky about that?
A potentially painful mistake to leg someone and run for your spear, as
I know a man who will readily chase after you on his knees nearly as fast
as he moves standing up! (anybody legging-and-leaving this man is in for
a nasty surprise :)

As to whether or not the practice is period... well, somewhat. I know that
if you lost or broke a weapon in a tournament, someone would hand you
another. I would assume you could also voluntarily change weapons in this
fashion. I see no problem with the idea, and I thin I might well use it
(such a pain it is to fight with a polearm once a limb has been chopped off).

Wulfgar Silberbaer
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: gwilym@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Bill Sanderson)
Subject: Travel, etc.
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 01:56:47 EDT

Greetings from Gwilym

Our greatest problem with travel is that we can only go to about one
event every month due to "real-world" considerations. Even then
we tend only to go to Ealdormere events, because I am a Principality
officer.

Like Mistress Marian, I love to travel and have visited many parts of
the East and Middle. However, from our home in South Mountain which
is one hour south of Ottawa, it is still 8 hours to get to Windsor, 
which is the first Midrealm group we encounter. Aethelmearc is closer,
Rhydderich Hael is only 6-7 hours, and Delftwood is 3. So when we
play outside the Principality it tends to be with East/Aethelmearc.

Regular meetings are in Ottawa or Kingston (two different groups) which are
an hour and an hour and a half away respectively. No problems for us
but you gotta love it. I guess my point is that travel times are
less of a problem if you like to travel and have good companions on 
the road. One of the things I've noticed over the past ten years is that
the growth of the Society is tending to make long distance travel less
common. When I moved to Ealdormere seven years ago, the closest three groups 
were all in the East, and to get to an Ealdormere event you had at least
a five hour drive. Now two of the three closest groups are in Ealdormere,
and with each group holding 1-2 events per year, the incentive to travel
really long distances, like to Cynnabar or beyond, is greatly diminished.

'nuff said.

G

Bill Sanderson
South Mountain, Ontario
gwilym@micor.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rday@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E Day)
Subject: Re: Why Call Light Blows?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 14:23:04 GMT

In article <a6066c3b@nudity.UUCP> vnend@nudity.UUCP (David W. James) writes:
>
>If I may make so radical a statement, there is no such thing as a
>"light" blow as of the last time I read the rules of the list.

     and,

>SCA blows are not judged by blow force,

     and also,

>     a if the blow landed clean, and the method of delivery was one that
>would have allowed it to land with enough force to damage, then the
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>damage shall be acknowledged.

This sounds like judging the "force" of the blow to me.  If the blow does
does not land "with enough force to do dammage" would it not be "light"?
-- 
If the price that I must pay to obtain my *  Robert E. Day/Syr Otto von    *
freedom, is to acknowledge that the Gov-  *  Schwartzkatz, Shire Mugmort   *
ernmet was granted the power to infringe  *  Barony Middle Marches,        *
on them, then I am not free. Paul Anderson*  Middle Kingdom                *
From: cat@piggy.fgs.slb.COM ("Rather B. Fishing")
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Mundania, CA
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:54:53 GMT
Organization: The Internet


Gee, and all these years I thought that Mundania was this little
town north of Bishop, California...  I driven through it once
or twice, cause I like backroads.  See, before they built the big
aqueduct that drained Owens Lake, the road up the valley there on the
back side of the Sierras went through Mundania.  Mostly a farming town,
that was, before all the water went south to L.A.  The aqueduct cut
to old main road off, and the new road went on to become state route
395.  But you can still get there - take 395 through Bishop, and before
you get to the cutoff that takes you up to Mono Crater, there's the
old road, UNMARKED, heading back south toward the lake.  
 
Not much left to Mundania, CA - post office, gas station, bait shop,
grocery store, CHP station...  Good halite minerals though, just about
a mile south of what's left of town.
 
You don't believe me???  Go look at an autoclub map of the Owens Valley...
 
Twcs
From: kuijt@umiacs.umd.edu (David Kuijt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Magicians in SCA (was Re: Magick)
Date: 17 Apr 92 21:15:13 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

Caradoc writes:
>[...]
>Prestidigitators are "fortune-tellers", and these are divided into two
>categories. Gypsies and their ilk, with their Tarot cards (my favourite),
>crystal balls, and palm readings, are often found in caravans, or frequenting
>festivals and tournaments. They had a tendency to be chased away by guards.
>[...]

>As to a persona, I would recommend being a fortune teller type person (gypsies
>are wonderful for this, in the Barony of Darkwood we have a queen of the 
>gypsies, Ellie. She's a wonderful tarot reader) [...]

There is no evidence for any use of tarot cards for fortunetelling before
1781.  Really.  I respond to this one about every six months on the Rialto;
probably everyone is bored with the subject long since.

There is also no evidence supporting any connection between the Gypsies
and the Tarot deck (or playing cards of any kind) in period.  The most
recent scholarship I've seen (in the Journal of the International Playing
Card Society) supports the Gypsies having taken up using the Tarot for
divination around the turn of (this) century.

I have substantial documentation for both the statements I make above;
I will send it by email to anyone interested.  Unless there are a large
number of requests I would prefer not to post it to the net, as many of
you have already seen this debate six months ago.

Please note that I make no statements about the efficacy (or not) of
divination by Tarot cards or any other technique--I don't want to get
into arguments of faith.  I merely say that there is no evidence for
the use of Tarot cards for divination in period.  Any primary source
evidence contradicting my statement would be welcome (and very interesting).


	Dafydd ap Gwystl			David Kuijt
	Barony of Storvik			kuijt@alv.umd.edu
	Kingdom of Atlantia			(MD,DC,VA,NC,SC)
From: 0003900943@mcimail.COM (Marla Lecin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Inquiry to Rialtans
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:47:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Greetings, from Jessa d'Avondale! 

[in response to several messages on using Society manners in mundane
situations...] 

In my first year in the SCA, I went to Pennsic.  After a full week there,
my garb no longer felt like a costume, but like *clothes*.  And the bowing
and "my lady"ing must have really sunk in, because... 

Not long after Pennsic ended, my husband and I attended a large birthday
party for an acquaintance of ours.  At one point, I was heading from the
yard to the back stairs to go into the house, when the guest of honor came
out the back door.  Before I realized what I was doing, I had stepped
aside and bowed my head while he came down the stairs.  (Well, by all
rights, he *was* the most important person at the party :-) 

Jessa 

Marla Lecin	mlecin@mcimail.com
From: n9040513@henson.cc.wwu.edu (aldridge andrea)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: HISTORY IN THE SCA
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:50:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Apr9.235045.3343
Organization: Western Washington University

In article <1992Apr7.224958.7144@watserv1.waterloo.edu> bwettlau@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Brand the Black) writes:
>Greetings to the Rialto,
>
>I am currently undertaking a search for history of various kingdoms.  I have
>acquired Duke Finvarr's _History of the Midrealm Kings_ and Orlando
>Ambrosius' _Collected Brief History of the Middle Kingdom (Vols. I & II)_,
>but I wish to find more.  Are there any published history books of other
>kingdoms?  Are there any published works of baronies/shires/cantons of the
>Midrealm I have missed?  Does anyone have old newsletters that they want to
>part with?

I only just got on the newsgroup, and I haven't been active in the SCA for a
couple  of years now, but I know the Chronicler's Office (?) of An Tir has
been organizing a/the "Domesday Boke" of An Tir.  One might hunt them up and
check whether they have what you want.

-- 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>  Andrea Aldridge   IRC:  Folkie   E-Mail: n9040513@henson.cc.wwu.edu   <>
<>  WWU--452 Edens Hall North/Bellingham, WA 98225 USA     206-734-0270   <>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Homage in the SCA (was Re: william t. bastard...)
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:43:28 GMT
Followup-To: jtn@vtopus.cs.vt.edu
Organization: SCA

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto, and most especially to _Master_ Arval
(congratulations, my friend), does Lord Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings
and prayers for the blessings of Allah.

Master Arval recently posted:

>Greetings from Arval!  Lord Hossein, in your otherwise excellent discussion
>of homage and its role in English-French relations in the Middle Ages, you
>wrote: 
>
>> In the SCA we tend to have unitary homage and fealty -- to the Crown...
>
>I believe this is a phenomenon which varies greatly from place to place.
>In the East, it is not at all unusual for one to separate one's fealty and
>homage.  For example, I am currently in fealty to the Viceroy of Ostgardr
>for "my father's estates east of the Hudson River," and to the Crown for my
>estate as a peer of the East.  I have done homage to the Crown as a vassal
>by virtue of my peerage.  At one point, I was considering fealty to Duke
>Vissevald as his personal herald; that hasn't happened yet. 

That is the reason why I used the T-word -- "tend."  I think there is a
strong statistical tendency, particularly among people who have been in
the Society 3 or so years or less (and that is the majority) to view
homage and fealty in unitary terms.  There is also a tendency in the
material which we use for orientation for newer members, to the extent
that the issue is discussed at all, to approach it in unitary terms.  I
think this is probably stronger in the Old Atenveldt kingdoms than elsewhere,
but I have had discussions in places as varied as Caid and Trimaris where
this unitary view was presented as "the way we do it in the SCA."  I think
this tendency is unfortunate and gives a rather unperiod flavor to the
practice.  Indeed, one of the more charming facets of the East Realm has
been the way in which the existence of great Ducal households have
encouraged separable fealty and homage.

In Service to the Society,

Hossein Ali Qomi
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: question of contest judging ethics
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1992 15:05:46 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

I have been asked by someone else to post this to the net. I will
simmarise for them any responses I get. I have already decided 
my own ethical position on the matter, of course.

"Should a judge of any arts and science competition be permitted
to enter their own work, and pass judgement upon it?"

BTW, to clarify my own opinion, I feel the answer should be
"No." Too bad, but I've seen some questionable judging in the
past, and *this* little situation is just bursting with
bad-blood potential. I realise we should assume honour
on the part of the judges, but there is also the old
chines proverb: "Do not stoop to tie your laces in 
your neigbhors melon patch"

Carolus Mediocris

Ps: I have no idea what machiavellian intrigues have brought 
all this about, so please don't ask.

-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: heralds?: name of my lady
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1992 07:46:20

 AN> What gives here, with names already registered?

 AN> A quick flick through the online armorial shows up what I assume are
 AN> two registered names, Bryony of the Bees, and Briony of Chatham.

 AN> If these names already exist, isn't that adequate documentation
 AN> by prior proof, or have regulation changes prevented this sort
 AN> of self referential documentation?

The official policy is that "The College of Arms is not bound to repeat past mistakes." (You wouldn't *believe* some of the dreck they used to register ...)

One major fly in the ointment is the Mundane Name Loophole, whereby somebody with an undocumentable mundane name can use parts of it in their SCA name. Hence we have no assurance that a prior registration was not under that Loophole, and is not of any precedential value except for someone similarly situated.

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SF Big 3 and SCA (was: Asimov)
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:45:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.scdqsINN4f3
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <9204071756.AA16990@math.bu.edu> jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:
>
[Isaac Asimov is dead and was never, so far as anyone knows, in the SCA.]

>Well, I suppose that means Arthur is the last survivor of the Big
>Three.

Not that it has anything to do with the price of silk in Troyes, but....

Back in AS single-digit, Robert A. Heinlein was on the SCA mailing list.
He got the Page and TI every issue.  Mind you, he'd never asked for them,
or sent us any money.  His address was added to the mailing list by fiat
of the Steward (Jon deCles), in the hopes that he'd some day take the
time to attend a tourney.  But he had other things to do.

Other (present and former) SCA members/SF writers include:

Poul and Karen Anderson		Sir Bela of Eastmarch, Mistress Karina of
					the Far West
Marion Zimmer Bradley		Mistress Elfrida of Greenwalls
Randall Garrett			Master Randall of Hightower
William Tuning			(can't recall his name--he was Baron of the
					Isles in Caid)
Diana Paxson			Mistress Diana Listmaker
L. Sprague and Catherine C.	(They joined the SCA after moving to Ansteorra
	de Camp				a few years ago.  Can anyone from
					there supply their names?)

And, if you wish to stretch the point a bit,

your humble & obedient servant,

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher)
Subject: Re: What is a Persona?
Organization: University of Toronto / UTCS Public Access
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:29:18 GMT

A persona is the identity of a person which is assumed for the purposes of re-
creation, re-enactment or living history.

In the SCA, the persona is the identity of a person who did not exist, but who
could have.

In some living history and re-enactment contexts, the persona is the identity of
a person who did exist.  For example, the interpreters at Plimoth Plantation all
represent former denizens of the Plymouth Colony.  These personas are usually
referred to as "impressions".

The idea of personas gets big laughs in a lot of parts of California.

According to Prof. Steve Muhlberger (Duke Finnvarr) nobody had personas until a
TI editor who thought they were neat published an article about them.  Everyone
out west just laughed, but everyone east of the Rockies took it as a Governing
and Policy Decision; and since then there are a lot of people wondering why
there is no peerage in doing a good persona.

Aryk Nusbacher
From: ddfr@quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Polearms, Fjordane, Pasta
Date: 10 Apr 92 03:30:59 GMT
Reply-To: ddfr@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations


"The trouble with an SCA polearm is that it is lighter and
differently balanced than a  real polearm.  This makes it much
quicker." (Balderik)

What is your evidence for this proposition? More precisely, what
figures do you have on the weight and balance of period polearms? I
ask because I have handled (and in a few cases weighed) real
polearms, and my impression is that they are not particularly heavy
and clumsy compared to the ones we use. 

"This was in the parish called Forde which was part of the county
called Sogn og Fjordane." (Ld. Erik Aarskog)

Fjordane, if I remember correctly, is where Egil's grandfather
Kveldulf came from.

"While we're on the subject of bread, does anyone know whether 
pasta is period, or have any sort of sources for early (ca. 1200) 
cooking in northern Italy (specifically Venice)?" (Alexander of Kiev)

I have a 13th or 14th century Venetian cookbook (in the original
language). Interested in translating it?

Pasta is period in both Islamic and European cooking. 

"Is it a fourth-grade-geography hangover, or did Marco Polo really
bring back and popularize the idea of noodles from China?"(Lin Yin Ho)

It is a common story, but it seems unlikely, since they were
extensively used in the Middle East before his time.

Cariadoc
From: ddfr@quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Magick
Date: 16 Apr 92 05:06:49 GMT
Reply-To: ddfr@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations


"Namely, most of the magic that I have read about (even tales from
period)  seems to come from really early pre-christian times and
18-19th century times. The early stuff mostly in the form of fairy
tales, the latter from the neo-celtic revival from the 18th century
on." (Kevin)

There is some magic described or pretty clearly hinted at in the
sagas. Egil, for example, sets up a horse's head on an island off
Norway, and speaks words over it that Eric Bloodaxe (of whom Egil is
not very fond) will never know peace in Norway again. Eventually
Eric's borthers drive him out. Meanwhile, Eric's wife (I think) has
done something such that Egil will not know peace (I do not remember
if the phrase is the same, but it is something similar) until she
sees him again. The consequences of the two curses result in the
meeting at York between Eric and Egil, hence in Egil's famous poem
"Headransom." 

This is only one example--there are others. Magic is generally seen
as dangerous, usually wicked (with the exception of foreseeing--Njal,
for example, is farsighted), but real. It usually involves curses of
one sort or another. Egilsaga, incidentally, describes events in the
tenth century, but was probably written in the thirteenth.

David (Cariadoc)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kevin%cairo.dnet@isi.COM (Keradwc an Cai)
Subject: Re: Why Call Light Blows?
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:55:46 GMT

Syr Otto, replying to Kwellend-Njal, wrote:

| >     a if the blow landed clean, and the method of delivery was one that
| >would have allowed it to land with enough force to damage, then the
|                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| >damage shall be acknowledged.
|
| This sounds like judging the "force" of the blow to me.  If the blow does
| does not land "with enough force to do dammage" would it not be "light"?

Good my lord, that quoted section could as reasonably be used to counter
the argument:
  
...the method of delivery was one that would have allowed it to land...
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

The actual force is not required, 'merely' that a form which would have
permitted sufficient force be used.

Admittedly, this is seldom used; the difference between a thud and a crack
being much easier to determine than whether your opponent threw something
in such a way as to make it possible for them to have done sufficient force--
particularly when the shot came in unseen.

Keradwc
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 | Keradwc an Cai     |       Adfui, Feci        |  In the Mists of the West |
 |--------------------|--------------------------|---------------------------|
 | Kevin Connery      | Quality must be designed |   Speaking FROM, not FOR: |
 |                    | into software; it cannot |   Integrated Systems, Inc |
 | kconnery@isi.com   | be patched on afterwards |           Santa Clara, CA |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: More membership???
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 20:01:08 -0500

Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org writes:

 RW> (most Society members stay only 3-4 years)

ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes) replies:

 LS> Where, pray tell, did this most interesting figure come from? From
 LS> among my aquaintance, if they stay after the first 
 LS> year, they are hooked for good.

Maybe it was an average, brought way down by the number of people who don't stay
past the first year.  (In that case, tho, the phrasing would have been
misleading.)