From: baldwin@csservera.scs.usna.navy.mil (J.D. Baldwin)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU stuff is a pain to install, and I can't get any help!
Date: 19 Nov 92 04:44:36 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dep't., U.S. Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD
In-reply-to: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu's message of 18 Nov 92 12:16:09 -0400

In article <EJH.92Nov18111609@khonshu.colorado.edu>
ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:
>I really love emacs, and the more I read about GNU stuff the more
>excited I get. But I've been trying to install gcc for two weeks now
>on a Sun IPC running 4.1.1 (a very common machine) and I can't get it
>to work, and no one will answer my questions on gnu.gcc.help. My point
>is that the whole GNU project might be well served if they could get
>someone to answer these kinds of questions.
>
>I've been a sys admin for a while, and I'm not an idiot, but I have no
>expert help here I can draw on. And I can't justify spending this
>much time installing a free package (it'd be cheaper to buy one!)

You sound exactly like you could have been me about two years ago.  I
took over as system administrator (a job which is a collateral duty for
faculty in our department) with no experience and little training.
In general, it's fair to say that USENET saved my butt and GNU made
me look good (for getting and installing the stuff). 

Keep trying, it's worth the effort.  I have my own (very few) complaints
about certain aspects of the installation process and the README and
INSTALL files have irritated me a couple of times.  Still, the systems
experience alone I have gotten from installing and maintaining these
beasts has been highly beneficial.  Someday I WILL repay the GNU 
project in some way, probably with code or documentation.  For now,
I'll just repay them with this plug.

I didn't see your posted questions (I skim these groups very rapidly,
normally), but I suspect you were less than exactingly specific.  Put
as much effort into concisely and precisely describing your problem
as you have into attempting the installation itself and you might get
better results.  The few questions I have posted in the gnu. hierarchy
have been quickly and accurately answered.

Also, you didn't say which version of gcc you were trying to install.
My experience was that gcc 2.* was far easier to install than 1.*.  You
might want to switch if you're at 1.*.

As I said, two years ago I was quite frustrated with GNU installs.  Now,
after about thirty major installs and upgrades, I've even installed 
TeX!  (Beams proudly.)

>I read all the gnu groups and answer as many questions as I can - I
>think other, more experienced users of GNU stuff (not to mention those
>who wrote the programs) should do the same. I know that some will say
>that I could pay for support, but there's just no way my boss is going
>to go for that unless I can show him some reasons why it's worth it.
>And I can't do that if I can't get these things installed in the first
>place!

Tell him J.D. said to get and install the stuff at any cost.  That always
works on my boss.

Seriously, if I were you I'd find another person at work interested
in trying and work with him on it.  Neither of you has to be an "expert,"
just adept and reading and understanding fairly sophisticated 
instructions, and possessed of solid computing skills.  And, I admit,
persistence.

>I know I'm going to get flames because I'm complaining about something
>that is, after all, free. But it's just a crying shame to have all
>these free great packages that, with just a few minutes help from an
>expert, could be accessible, and not be able to use them. Am I the
>only one who feels this way?

I'd be very surprised if you get even one flame.  Everyone here is
quite interested in doing whatever is necessary to make this project
better and better.
--
 From the catapult of:              |+| "If anyone disagrees with anything I
   _,_  J. D. Baldwin, Comp Sci Dept|+| say, I am quite prepared not only to
 _|70|___:::)=}-  U.S. Naval Academy|+| retract it, but also to deny under
 \      /   baldwin@usna.navy.mil   |+| oath that I ever said it." --T. Lehrer
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