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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:35:20 CST
Reply-To:     bradk@isdgsm.rtsg.mot.com
From:         "(Brad Kaiser)" <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Trinity...
              at Nov 6, 92 5:48 pm

Eric posts an excellent explanation of why the Three Persons of the
Blessed Trinity are not "the same".

Keep in mind that any assertion that Jesus "received the Holy Spirit" at
His baptism and did not "have the Holy Spirit" beforehand is probably
not in keeping with orthodox Trinitarianism.  (What the Christian
Research Institute calls "the essentials of the historic Christian
faith"; what Catholics and Orthodox call "Sacred Tradition".)

Here are some relevant excerpts from the Athanasian Creed:

   Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith;
   for unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire he will
   undoubtedly be lost forever.

   This is what the Catholic faith teaches.  We worship one God in the
   Trinity, and Trinity in unity; we distinguish among the persons but
   we do not divide the substance.  For the Father is a distinct person;
   the Son is a distinct person; and the Holy Spirit is a distinct
   person.  Still, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have one
   divinity, equal glory, and coeternal majesty.  What the Father is,
   the Son is, and the Holy Spirit is.  The Father is uncreated, the Son
   is uncreated, and the Holy Spirit is uncreated.  The Father has
   immensity, the Son has immensity, and the Holy Spirit has immensity.
   The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, and the Holy Spirit is
   eternal.  Nevertheless, there are not three eternal beings, but one
   eternal being.  Thus there are not three uncreated beings, nor three
   beings having immensity, but one uncreated being and one being that
   has immensity.

   Likewise, the Father is omnipotent, the Son is omnipotent, and the
   Holy Spirit is omnipotent.  Yet there are not three omnipotent
   beings, but one omnipotent being.  Thus the Father is God, the Son is
   God, and the Holy Spirit is God.  Yet there are not three gods, but
   one God.  Thus the Father is lord, the Son is lord, and the Holy
   Spirit is lord.  Yet there are not three lords, but one Lord.  For
   according to Christian truth, we must profess that each of the
   persons individually is God; and according to the Christian religion
   we are forbidden to say that there are three gods or three lords.
   The Father is not made by anyone, nor created by anyone, nor
   generated by anyone.  The Son is not made nor created, but he is
   generated by the Father alone.  The Holy Spirit is not made nor
   created nor generated, but proceeds from the Father and the Son.

   There is, then, one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three
   sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.  In this Trinity,
   there is nothing that precedes, nothing subsequent to anything else.
   There is nothing greater, nothing lesser than anything else.  But the
   entire three persons are coeternal and coequal with one another, so
   that, as we have said, we worship complete unity in the Trinity and
   Trinity in unity.  This, then is what he who wishes to be saved must
   believe about the Trinity.

end quote.

Note that one cannot argue that Jesus was the Incarnate Son from the
first moment of His conception, yet say that He did not "have the Holy
Spirit" until His baptism; to do so would be tantamount to "dividing the
substance" of the Trinity.

In the peace of Christ,

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

	  Those who trust in Him shall understand truth,
	  and the faithful shall abide with Him in love;
	  Because grace and mercy are with His holy ones,
	  and His care is with His elect.
		    -- Wis 3:9 [NAB]
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