HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Envelope-to: SMALK@FINHUTC.BITNET
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 06:16:12 EST
From:         Paulo Henrique Cavalcante Lisboa <phcl@DI.UFPE.BR>
Subject: Re: General Arithmatic

> I am trying to read from an array a set of integers.
> Then perform a simple arithmatic expression (eg: add 1) and return the
> new value for each number of the array.

Stephen,

try the following:

  | number |
  number := #(2 4 6 8).
  ^number collect:[ :item | item + 1 ]


Don't hesitate to make general questions. The difficult ones are the worst.

------------------------------------
Universidade Federal de Pernambuco |
Departamento de Informatica        |
Brazil                             |
------------------------------------
Paulo Henrique Cavalcante Lisboa   |
internet: phcl@di.ufpe.br          |
FAX: 55-81-5250225                 |
------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: mjb@netcom.com (Martin Brown)
Subject: Re: MVC in Smalltalk/V?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:22:38 GMT

In article <X0JHsB5w165w@toz.buffalo.ny.us> nicted@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Nicole Tedesco) writes:
>Is the Model-View-Controller paradigm a Smalltalk-80 thing, or a 
>Smalltalk thing in general?  Does Smalltalk/V have an MVC paradigm for 
>building applications?
>
>- Nicole
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>nicted@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Nicole Tedesco)
>-- Change this!

Digitalk's Smalltalk/V for Windows uses the model-view (MV) paradigm.

-- 

                                   - mjb -

                                mjb@netcom.com

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf)
Subject: Re: comparing object-oriented platforms
Organization: WEITEK Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 19:09:06 GMT

In article <STEINMAN.92Oct8112945@hawk.is.morgan.com> steinman@is.morgan.com (Jan Steinman) writes:
>In article <718538944snx@feki.toppoint.de> marten@feki.toppoint.de (Marten Feldtmann) writes:
>   nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM writes in article <1992Oct5.182656.15573@jetsun.weitek.COM>:
>
>   > What applications don't use complex arithmetic functions? I have yet to
>   > find a business app that didn't do a lot of calculations...
>
>   ...*I* think about applications e.g. like Excel, Lotus 1-2-3 or
>   Mathematica, which main purposes are to do mathematical processing
>   expecially with floating point numbers...
>
>Business apps *should not* be using limited precision numbers to
>represent quantities! It is pretty easy to do fast fixed-point in
>Smalltalk. (Fixed is a gaping hole in Smalltalk's othewise
>well-thought-out Number hierarchy.) 

Amen. Floating point is dangerous, folks.
 
-- 
The Earth Pig Bourne....

nadja@node.com (prefered email address)
nadja@weitek.com
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Wanted: Icon/image editors STv4.1
Date: 14 Oct 92 10:05:36 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

I'm working on a research project at the University of Glasgow, in
ParcPlace Smalltalk 80 v4.1.

Does any one know of a utility (or set of classes) to allow me to
view, edit and load/store images?  Just 1-bit deep images would be
fine and actually preferred.

Thanks
mn
 
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: cantwell@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jeff Cantwell)
Subject: Least Memory for a PPR4 application (or recode in C++!?!)
Keywords: smalltalk C++ memory
Organization: CIS
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:23:11 GMT

The Fortune 500 Co. that sponsored the development of a fairly complex
package in PPR4 is seriously considering paying big dollars to have
the system rebuilt in C++.  The main selling point for the recode is
memory usage.  The recoders claim they can make the system run in 1.2
mb.  The system in st80 currently requires 8 mb of RAM.  To clarify,
this RAM is total system memory in both cases. Obviously the results
vary on what TSRs or background jobs you have running and just how big
your system is. Our programmers think they can get cut our memory
usage in half (i.e. down to 4 mb) at best staying with st80. So, my
question is this: What is the minimum amount of memory required to run
an PPR4 application that anyone has developed??????  Has anyone
written a PPR4 app that runs in less than 4 mb RAM on a Mac or PC?
Tell me about it!  One additional fact about C++ versus PPR4: The
recoders claim it will take around 20 times the effort to develop the
software in C++ that it took in PPR4!!!


-- 
Jeff Cantwell, Vanderbilt U. CIS Box 1804, Sta. B Nashville, TN 37235 
  Internet: cantwell@vuse.vanderbilt.edu Bitnet: CANTWEJR@VUCTRVAX
	Phone: (615) 322-0110  Fax: (615) 343-6449
       2 Cor. 12:9 "Power is perfected in weakness."
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: humm@cs.uow.edu.au (Bernhard G Humm)
Subject: terminating monitor processes
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 02:12:12 GMT

I want to fork a Process that monitors a SharedQueue on an object:
	``[true] whileTrue: [sharedQueue next doSomething]''. 
How can I ensure that the process is terminated when the object is deleted 
by the garbage collector (or will the object never be deleted because the 
process is monitoring it)?

__________________________________________________________
Bernhard G. Humm   <humm@cs.uow.edu.au>
Telecommunications Software Research Centre
Department of Computer Science, University of Wollongong
Wollongong, NSW, Australia
__________________________________________________________
From: slimick+@pitt.edu (John C Slimick)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Help!
Date: 10 Oct 92 23:27:04 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: slimick@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu


I am only marginally apt in Smalltalk, and I'm trying
to introduce it in a course here. I'm using Smalltalk/V 286.
I wanted to assign a homework problem where students define
a subclass Queue of OrderedCollection to implement queues
with method push: and pull. My problem is that I don't
seem to be able to provide a valid "new" or "new:"
I've tried

	^( super new )

and

	^( super new: 10)

and no "new" method at all.

Everything fails in a stack overflow.

Help!

If you have any hints, please email to:
slimick@unix.cis.pitt.edu
or
slimick@tullah.upb.pitt.edu

and thanks in advance
john slimick
university of pittsburgh at bradford
From: herkimer@tigercat.den.mmc.com (Don Herkimer)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: O-O Complexity Metrics
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:56:03 GMT
Organization: Martin Marietta

I'm looking for information on O-O code complexity metrics, i.e.,
journal articles, theses, etc.  I'm working on a Master's thesis
related to O-O software metrics, and need some more references.

In addition, if anyone out there has written measuring code for
Smalltalk-80, please send me mail.

Thanks in advance,
Don
From: ac690@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Edward Klimas)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: comparing object-oriented platforms
Date: 7 Oct 1992 22:13:05 GMT
Organization: Linea Engineering Inc
Reply-To: ac690@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Edward Klimas)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf) says:

>In article <1atnlsINNjlt@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ac690@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Edward Klimas) writes:
>
>>In a previous article, nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf) says:
>>a lot of blatantly misinformed opinion including
>
>>>In article <718144987snx@feki.toppoint.de> marten@feki.toppoint.de (Marten Feldtmann) writes:
>>>>nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM writes in article <1992Oct1.013812.2130@jetsun.weitek.COM>:
>>>>
....a lot of candidate material for alt.flame deleted here....
>
>>>There seems to be a big myth out there that C++==C. :-) A myth heavily
>>>believed in by people who don't use C++. How many big projects written
>>>in smalltalk have actually 'gone out the door?' How many in C++?
>>	With the major sales of C++ one would expect that to be the case
>>	but as reported in "Smalltalk Looming Larger" by David Taylor
>>	Object Magazine May/June 1992; 8 out of a sample of 18 applications
>>	were built in Smalltalk, 3 were done in C++ and the rest were done 
>>	in C++.
	   ^^^^Typo
>
>(Huh? 8 were done in small talk and (3 + (18-(3 + 8))) were done in C++?
>this implies that 10 were done in C++. This is smalltalk looming larger?)
	My appologies.  The statement should have read
		18 sample applications
		 8 Smalltalk
		 3 C++
	the rest were scattered among 6 other languages

	Ed Klimas
From: podenski@bcsaic.boeing.com (Patrick Podenski)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Prograph ?
Date: 9 Oct 92 04:36:56 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle

In article <19921007.135844711883.NETNEWS@ALIJKU11> schiffer@swe.uni-linz.ac.at (Stefan Schiffer) writes:
>I post this for a collegue of mine who currently
>has no
>access to NetNews:
>Greetings from Austria.
>We have been trying to order Prograph and find
>that the phone/fax/address
>on the demo diskette seem to have been preempted.
>Is TGS Systems defunct?
>Or does someone have a new address/phone/fax?

The new address is:

TGS Systems
2745 Dutch Village Road
Suite 200
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Canada   B3L 4G7

FAX: (902) 455-2246
From: nicted@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Nicole Tedesco)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: MVC in Smalltalk/V?
Date: 11 Oct 92 15:16:20 GMT
Organization: The Tower of Zot - (716)691-3865

Is the Model-View-Controller paradigm a Smalltalk-80 thing, or a 
Smalltalk thing in general?  Does Smalltalk/V have an MVC paradigm for 
building applications?

- Nicole

---------------------------------------------------------------------
nicted@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Nicole Tedesco)
-- Change this!
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: terry@zoe.network23.com (Terry)
Subject: Re: parallel processing
Organization: Mystech Associates
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 12:39:37 GMT

From article <golovch.718582427@prim.rose.utoronto.ca>, by golovch@prim.rose.utoronto.ca (Gene Golovchinsky):
> Hi!
> 
> I need to build a set objects that can be combined (graphically) by a
> user to produce a working simulation of a system. The PP ST4.1 and Digitalk
> documentation alludes to the possibility (and desireability) of using
> parallel Smalltalk processes to do this, but gives no examples.  Does
> anyone have any code or good documentation on a good way to do this?
> I couldn't find the Goldberg book mentioned in the Digitalk documentation;
> the Budd book was basically useless.
> 
>  2
> G

You are addressing two problems here.  First, a graphical interface to
manipulate objects.  Second, a simulation capability.  A good example of
a system to graphically manipulate objects is HotDraw.  The following
excerpt explains how to get it.

You can get HotDraw by anonymous ftp from st.cs.uiuc.edu in /pub/st80_r4/hotdraw
or by using the archive e-mail server.  To get documentation for the server,
send the following message to archive-server@st.cs.uiuc.edu

Simulation using Smalltalk processes is explained in the book
"Smalltalk-80 The Language" the authors are Adele Goldberg and David Robson.

Code for the simulation is available.  It was distributed with ST-80 ver 2.5.
It may still be available from the ParcPlace BBS.

Good luck.

Terry
-- 
terry@zoe.network23.com
{rayssd,xanth,mirror,att}!galaxia!zoe!terry
From: nicted@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Nicole Tedesco)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Converting a Smalltalk-80 App. to C++
Date: 11 Oct 92 15:13:10 GMT
Organization: The Tower of Zot - (716)691-3865

Has anyone had any experience converting a Smalltalk-80 app. to C++?
Is it worth my while to create an MVC environment in C++?  Or, should I 
adopt a whole new paradigm?

We have to dump ParcPlace's Smalltalk-80 because of problems we have with 
the runtime fees.  WOuld I be better off going to Smalltalk/V?  Or, would
C++ be better off in the long run.

I love Smalltalk-80.  I have learned to see C++ as something of an 
annoyance.

Is Smalltalk still salvageable for me?

- Nicole

---------------------------------------------------------------------
nicted@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Nicole Tedesco)
-- Change this!
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: golovch@prim.rose.utoronto.ca (Gene Golovchinsky)
Subject: Re: trapping scrolling events in a ComposedTextView
Keywords: scrolling ComposedTextView
Organization: University of Toronto, Department of Industrial Engineering
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:17:48 GMT

bernard@is.morgan.com (Bernard Horan) writes:

>In article <golovch.718403631@prim.rose.utoronto.ca>, golovch@prim.rose.utoronto.ca (Gene Golovchinsky) writes:
>|> I have a subclass of ComposedTextView (actually of TextView, but who's
>|> counting) that needs to inform its container's container (a ComposedView)
>|> that it (C-T-V) has scrolled.  I tried to track down the logic in a
>|> ScrollingWrapper, but that seemed to apply to the scroll bars only.
>|> And looking at the ScrollingView code, I didn't see any connection to the
>|> C-T-V.  I assume that it does not invalidate the entire bounds but just the
>|> area that is about to get scrolled into view.  Unfortunately, I haven't
>|> found the code that does it... anyone know what's going on?
>|> 
>|> Thanks!
>|> 
>|>  2
>|> G
> 


>Completely off the top of my head.. If you're using R4.1 have a look at
>the stuff in ScrollingView and ScrollingWrapper that refers to the
>ScrollValueHolder, a sort of shared model that appears to provide
>some form of communication between the two.

>Bernard

I finally tracked down the problem.  Apparently what happens is that the
ScrollingWrapper takes care of redisplaying a ComposedTextView by sending
it the proper displayOn: message. The ComposedTextView itself is completely
unaware that anything happened (except for a state change in the Scrolling-
VallueHolder that is an instance variable in the C-T-View).  For my purpose
of invalidating the rectangle scrolled into view (so overlapping views could
update themselves), I subclassed the ScrollingView class; in the subclass I
changed the method (I forget the name) that sends the displayOn: message to
the view's component. Instead, the method sends an invalidateRectangle: 
message to itself.  That ultimately causes all views occupying the affected
rectangle to update themselves.

To install this new ScrollerView subclass, I sent the onScroller: message
instead of on: to LookPreferences edgeDecorator when creating a layout
for the view.  If anyone is interested in the actual code, I can send it
to them (the code is on the Mac, and I have to go to another room to get
it, and of course I'm too lazy to do it now!).

Thanks to all who tried to help!

 2
G
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: maxc0438@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Stephen Treger)
Subject: General Arithmatic
Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:27:18 GMT

I know this is probably a very general question, however the user's
manuel included with Smalltalk/V doesn't cover it.
 
I am trying to read from an array a set of integers.
Then perform a simple arithmatic expression (eg: add 1) and return the 
new value for each number of the array.

Here is what I was trying:
  |number newnumber |

number := #( 2 4 6 8 ).

number do: [ item |
           newnumber := item + 1 ]

Please e-mail any help to
maxc0438@ucselx.sdsu.edu   thanks immensely.

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: lmartins@shearson.com (Lloyd Martinson)
Subject: Object>>become: in ParcPlace ST
Organization: Lehman Brothers, NY
Distribution: comp.lang.smalltalk
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:52:17 GMT


How can one get the functionality of Object>>become: in Digitalk
when using ParcPlace's Smalltalk?

Digitalk's Object>>become: works as one would expect - the 
receiver takes on the full identity of the object passed as
an argument.

ParcPlace's Object>>become: would be more correctly named
"swapIdentityWith:", since not only does the receiver take on
the identity of the argument, but also vice-versa.  This takes
place in the primitive Object>>primBecome:.  If one looks at
become:'s senders within the image, the swapping of object identities
is either irrelevant or appropriate.

Unfortunately, my application requires the behavior of the more
intuitive Object>>become: implementation found in Digitalk.  Has anyone 
done this in ParcPlace's?  I'll post responses...

Thanks,

Lloyd Martinson
Lehman Brothers                          388 Greenwich St., 14th Floor
e-mail:  lmartins@shearson.com           NY, NY 10013
voice:   212-464-3604
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: rtgrc@rc.rit.edu (Rob Gayvert)
Subject: System 7 Goodies for V/Mac Available
Followup-To: comp.lang.smalltalk
Organization: RIT Research
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:34:57 GMT


A collection of System 7 goodies for V/Mac is now available through
anonymous ftp at the UIUC archives (st.cs.uiuc.edu) in the directory
pub/st_v/S7VMac10. The file S7VMac10.hqx is a bin-hexed, self-extracting
archive created with Compact Pro, and is about 180K. Below is a brief
description of the contents.

System 7 for V/Mac (S7VMac) is a collection of goodies which brings System
7 capabilities to Digitalks Smalltalk/V Mac. S7VMac works with version 1.2
of Smalltalk/V Mac. It contains over 100 classes, partitioned into 15
packages. The new features include: 

	AppleEvents - send & receive high level events
	ColorQuickdraw - color windows and pens
	BalloonHelp - for MPD panes
	QuickTime - compressed images and movies
	ProcessManager - process info & launching
	FileManager - FSSpec support

and more. None of the packages is intended to be complete or authoritative;
the point is to demonstrate the tremendous potential of V/Mac, and to
stimulate discussion about what might be possible with the next version of
V/Mac. Nonetheless, you may find some portions to be useful enough to
incorporate in your own code now. 

Rob Gayvert
RIT Research Corp.
rtgrc@cs.rit.edu
From: maxc0438@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Stephen Treger)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: General Arithmatic
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:21:42 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Thanks to all who answered my question.
In the time that our computers were down and I couldn't
get to your repsonses, I figured it out.
Thanks anyways! Much appreciated.

Stephen
From: sh25@prism.gatech.EDU (HUGHES)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Looking for Smalltalk-80 guru in Atlanta Area
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:52:22 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

I am looking for a Smalltalk-80 guru in the Atlanta area who would be willing
to answer some questions involving Smalltalk-80 development.  It would be
especially nice if they had experience using Smalltalk-80 on the Apollos.

Stan
-- 
HUGHES,STANLEY
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!sh25
Internet: sh25@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: bruce@utafll.uta.edu (Bruce Samuelson)
Subject: Re: Numeric Computing with Smalltalk
Organization: UTexas at Arlington, Linguistics
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:28:38 GMT

Your Smalltalk code may be slightly optimized by changing two small
integers to floating points: x > 1.0 ifTrue: [x := x / 5.0].  In your
original code, the small ints 1 and 5 get repeatedly converted to
floats at runtime.  However, this will only buy you a percent or two.

I am surprised that Smalltalk was only 2.5 times slower than Fortran
in this example.  If you do convert your program to Smalltalk, and if
performance is an issue, I would suggest converting the user interface
and all higher level logic to Smalltalk, while keeping the lowest
level number crunching in Fortran.  ObjectWorks 4.1 has an interface
for calling C from Smalltalk (and Smalltalk from C I think).  I think
you have to buy this interface as a separate product.  You would then
have two options:

1. Code your number crunching routines in C and call them from
Smalltalk.

2. Code your number crunching routines in Fortran and call them from C
which is called from Smalltalk.

I would assume your Fortran compiler produces faster number crunching
code than your C compiler.  So option 2 would be fastest unless the
C-to-Fortran glue adds too much overhead.  As is typical when
optimization is the priority, this option is also least convenient.

In any case, you will want to minimize the frequency of crossing the
interface between Smalltalk and C by maximizing the size of your
number crunching routines in C or Fortran.  Note that the methods for
exp sin and / are already implemented as Smalltalk primitives, so it
would be pointless for you to code them in C or Fortran.

There are examples in the literature (OOPSLA conference proceedings)
of large number crunching applications that take the approach I
describe.  Recalling roughly from my memory, one is an applied math
system at some east cost university (Rutgers?) in which Smalltalk
controls the application while distributing heavy duty number
crunching to appropriate compute engines on a network.  The other is
some kind of radar signal analysis system for the Canadian navy in
which most of the work is done in Smalltalk, and low level signal
analysis is done on specialized processors.  Although I probably have
some details wrong, the basic approach has been validated in the
literature.
--
**********************************************************
* Bruce Samuelson	Department of Linguistics	 *
* bruce@ling.uta.edu	University of Texas at Arlington *
**********************************************************


Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: bruce@utafll.uta.edu (Bruce Samuelson)
Subject: Re: Least Memory for a PPR4 application (or recode in C++!?!)
Organization: UTexas at Arlington, Linguistics
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 16:32:07 GMT

The ParcPlace documentation for version 4.1 discusses how to run on a
4MB Windows machine.  (It may be the Installation Guide--I can't
check--it's in another office.  Be sure to use a tiny SmartDrv disk
cache, e.g., 128K.)  Since both Mac and Windows support virtual
memory, you can theoretically run in say 2MB.  But paging would kill
the performance, and I'd expect even 4MB to be borderline adequate at
best.  Even though your system apparently has 8MB, you can simulate
its having less by setting up a large RAM disk or disk cache.  An
unused 3MB ram disk would make it behave like a 5MB (8-3) machine.

A friend of mine had a similar experience to you.  The small company
he works for is developing a Windows application.  They couldn't use
Sm80 because of memory requirements and runtime royalties.  They
planned to use Sm/V.  They still figured this would require 4MB.  But
then they got cold feet when their competitors were demoing their
stuff at a trade show on 2MB machines, so my friend unhappily has
recommended implementing their product in C++.  I said that no serious
Windows user has less than 4MB, and that he could get to market
quicker with Smalltalk and have a cheaper maintenance/ehancement
cycle.  My arguments couldn't overcome his terror at seeing competing
products that were memory efficient.  Speed wasn't an issue in his
case, since he would have used C underneath Smalltalk when necessary.
--
**********************************************************
* Bruce Samuelson	Department of Linguistics	 *
* bruce@ling.uta.edu	University of Texas at Arlington *
**********************************************************


Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk