HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: L630391@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: computer for sale
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 20:53:30 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: 6069050@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: computer for sale
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 20:32:32 GMT

For sale - Atari Mega STe 4 meg RAM w/50MB HD, two monitors (C/BW), 1.44 meg
floppy, monitor switch, Spectre GCR, tons of software.  Like new.  Make an
offer.  VERY CHEAP||  Call Mark (USA) - (408) 739-0541. Leave message.
12-12-92  note:  for those of you who have been calling about the spectre gcr
only - sorry, when i said computer for sale, i meant the whole thing, not just
pieces of it.  it seems everyone wants to turn theiratari into a mac, but
nobody wants an atari, even when i try to practically give it away. hmmmmm.
is there a message here?  please make a serious offer for the whole system as
advertised, or don't bother calling.  p.s. - i had to switch floppy drives from
1.44 meg to .75 meg because i couldn't get the spectre to work with the 1.44.
has anyone else had this problem, or was my 1.44 floppy screwed up?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: aeg03@rrz.uni-koeln.de (Jan T. Kim)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Piracy of software
Date: 16 Dec 1992 02:43:01 +0100
Organization: Regional Computing Center, University of Cologne
Reply-To: kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: rs1.rrz.uni-koeln.de
Keywords: Theft

In <1685@tekgen.bv.tek.com> boblu@tekgen.bv.tek.com (Robert Luneski) writes:

>In article <BzB7yM.9u0@ccu.umanitoba.ca> ens@ccu.umanitoba.ca writes:

>>I have seen this scenario play out many times. It's illegal, yes.
>>But as bad as stealing 6 TVs? Get serious.

>You tell that to my son when I can't buy him shoes because software sales are
>down and then I get calls for product support from three times the number of
>users than can be accounted for by legal sales.  You would be surprised how
>many unique stories people come up with for why they don't know there
>registration number AND never sent in their card AND can't find their manual 
>AND lost their orginal disk.

Do you know what I  would  tell  you  and  your  son  in  such  a
situation?  That  you  could  probably have just as many pairs of
shoes had you recognized that this situation  you  describe  does
indeed  most  strongly  encourage  to  switch  from  charging for
copyrights to charging for  support.  If  the  number  of  people
calling  for  support is already three times the number of people
who bought that software, imagine how many more must  already  be
out  there,  illegally  using  it and not daring to call you. And
then, imagine how that number could yet be increased by  actually
allowing  people  to  freely  copy  that  stuff,  i.e.  making it
copylefted. Now, an increased percentage of people from  an  user
base  of  increased size call your hotline, and the wires of your
phone will glow so brightly you even can  spare  light  bulbs  in
your  house  :-).  Charging for calling the hotline will probably
turn out to be a real gold mine, and would  certainly  help  your
son  and  you  much  more than reasoning how well you would do if
there were no software pirates.

Greetinx, Jan

 +- Jan Kim -- X.400:    S=kim;OU=vax;O=mpiz-koeln;P=mpg;A=dbp;C=de -+
 |             Internet: kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de               |
 |                                                                   |
 *----=<  hierarchical systems are for files, not for humans  >=-----*
From: aeg03@rrz.uni-koeln.de (Jan T. Kim)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Piracy of software
Date: 13 Dec 1992 02:42:50 +0100
Organization: Regional Computing Center, University of Cologne
Reply-To: kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: rs1.rrz.uni-koeln.de

In <1gajk7INNrtv@tamsun.tamu.edu> lehmann@cs.tamu.edu (Mark A Lehmann) writes:

>Now for little utilities that took one person a year to write on their
>own time, mainly for fun; I agree that the software price should mainly
>comprise of the production cost of the manaul, disk reproduction service,
>and shipping and handling.

>But golly kim, how do you expect someone to place their career in
>programming and then tell them that he or she is not allowed to eat.

I have, at least in the "Copyleft and Copyright" thread  that  is
related  to  this  one, explicitly stated that I fully understand
that programmers need to get paid for  their  work.  However,  it
must not be possible to make unlimited money from a finite amount
of  work.  This  is  exactly  what  the  concept  of  commercial,
copyrighted software does: They buy the rights on a program for a
finite amount of money, and then they have the right to make  and
sell infinitely many copies of the stuff. The first  thousand  or
so  copies they sell will make them some profit, which is ok, but
for each copy beyond these thousand (don't be  picky  about  this
number,  it's  just an example) most of the money they get for it
is for nothing. I think that is  a  fundamental  problem  in  the
concept of marketing copyrights. Software companies rip off  both
programmers and users these days.
Maybe all that is needed to resolve this problem is a law  saying
that  after the copyright on a program expires after one year and
is automatically converted to a copyleft.

Greetinx, Jan

 +- Jan Kim -- X.400:    S=kim;OU=vax;O=mpiz-koeln;P=mpg;A=dbp;C=de -+
 |             Internet: kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de               |
 |                                                                   |
 *----=<  hierarchical systems are for files, not for humans  >=-----*
From: HAC041@DJUKFA11.BITNET (Konrad Hinsen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Seeking help from UltraScript users
Date: 20 Dec 92 14:05:41 GMT
Organization: Forschungszentrum Juelich

Some versions of UltraScript behave very strangely if you try
to print PostScript files from another drive or even another
folder. Try moving the PS files into the same directory where
you installed UltraScript.

Konrad Hinsen (hac041@zam001.zam.kfa-juelich.de)
From: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: I am NOT making this up, OK?  (was Re: Closed ... <ho hum>)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 15:10:34 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Dec14.143451.19724@digi.lonestar.org>
  <1992Dec14.193731.1968@news2.cis.umn.edu> <1gnve3INNhd9@life.ai.mit.edu>

For crying out loud, Dave..!

What were you doing talking to the people Atari *wanted* you
to talk to..??
 
Sheesh..  
 
BobR
From: aeg03@rrz.uni-koeln.de (Jan T. Kim)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: intellectual property and shit
Date: 15 Dec 1992 02:37:12 +0100
Organization: Regional Computing Center, University of Cologne
Reply-To: kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: rs1.rrz.uni-koeln.de

In <1992Dec14.203630.16753@nosc.mil> healy@nosc.mil (Mike Healy) writes:

>I guess my point is that people do have a need to make a living, and if
>they choose to do this by making and selling software, this is a
>legitimate activity. I don't see how the fact that someone is making
>a profit off software justifies piracy.

Such an  argument  is  naive  and  completely  one-sided.  It  is
sometimes  made by certain people, but it has not yet shown up in
this discussion. However, the fact  that  one-sidedly  justifying
piracy  is  nonsense does not mean that one-sidedly condemning it
is the sensible thing to do. I think that both parts, pirates and
software  marketers,  contribute  about  the  same to keeping the
vicious circle going. There's little use in  one-sidedly  blaming
either  of  them. Much rather, both users and programmers need to
develop new ways of dealing with each other, and these  new  ways
should get rid of the vicios circle.

>If something is overpriced,
>don't buy it. Should an author be required to give away his book after
>he has made back the "cost"? Or should musicians be denied royalties
>on their songs after they have received a certain amount to cover 
>the cost? How is it different selling a software product?

If copyright is supposed to enable authors  to  get  compensation
for  the effort it took them to produce their stuff, it basically
should expire once it did so. For this issue, it  matters  little
how  much the compensation actually is. The crucial point is that
it ought  ot  be  *limited*,  not  *infinite*.  As  long  as  the
compensation  one  can  get  from  a  limited amount of effort is
limited, one may more or less reasonably argue  that  the  market
will  take  care  of  overpricing, i.e. people will buy from less
expensive competitors etc. But  if,  according  to  the  idea  of
copyrighting  software,  the  holder  of  a  copyright can charge
infinitely often for a thing that took a finite effort to create,
how  can any market mechanism be expected to discriminate between
these infinities?

Greetinx, Jan

 +- Jan Kim -- X.400:    S=kim;OU=vax;O=mpiz-koeln;P=mpg;A=dbp;C=de -+
 |             Internet: kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de               |
 |                                                                   |
 *----=<  hierarchical systems are for files, not for humans  >=-----*
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: csg022@cch.coventry.ac.uk (PROC)
Subject: Re: You Could Win Big Money...
Organization: Coventry University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:30:11 GMT

In article <1gdtmjINN1e7c@rs1.rrz.Uni-Koeln.DE> kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de writes:

>Huh? I never came across a 520 with a  floppy  built  in.  Always
>thought all 1040's had one and all 520 don't.

Never heard of a 520 STFM???
I've got one. It's a real hiked up beaut now though.

-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| csg022 is M B Procter | Sincerity, if you can fake that you've got it made. |
| Coventry Uni. England |   Whoever said that was thinking of Anne Diamond    |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: rgoseweh@digi.lonestar.org (Roy Gosewehr)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: I am NOT making this up, OK?  (was Re: Closed ... <ho hum>)
Summary: Come on guys, get a clue!
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:34:51 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <1gh4smINNm72@life.ai.mit.edu> dmb@case.ai.mit.edu (David Baggett) writes:

>Howard jumps on my case about video bandwidth, Warwick moans that I'm
>making stuff up.  Sheesh!  I'm just telling you:
>
>	1. What they told me to my face.  (I WAS listening when
> 	   they listed off their ludicrous pie-in-the-sky
>	   "requirements for GW;" the best one was "we should
>	   be able to write Steel Talons with it out of the box --
>	   on a stock ST")
>
>	2. Based on what ATARI HQ SAID THEY WANTED, the amount of
>	   RAM they put in the baseline model was insufficient.
>	   I told them that and got only blank stares, YES, DESPITE
>	   MY MATH BEING CORRECT.

What the heck is everyone beating on Dave for?  If I had Dave's
experience at Atari HQ, I would have been foaming at the mouth and
probably a stark raving lunatic.  But Dave posts are a calm and rational
description of his experiences and everbody accuses him of making things
up.  READ THE F***ING POST.  All Dave said was: "I went to Atari and
this is what happened."

If anything, I tend to be an Atari "cheerleader" and get really annoyed
at the habitual whiners & complainers in this newsgroup (and you know
who you are).  And I don't always agree with Dave either.  But the guy
gives us a peek at the *inside* of Atari and everyone jumps him like
he just shot your dog and f***** your wife/girlfriend.

Despite all the complaints, I think that Falcon is a fine machine. But
I know (from inside experience) how a company can royally f*** things
up if they don't have a clue.  I may or may not buy a Falcon, but I sure
do appreciate Dave's post. 

Come on, guys.  Being an Atari cheerleader is one thing.  Being a
*mindless* cheerleader is something else.  Chill out, already.

Roy C. Gosewehr
-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
| GEnie: R.C.Gosewehr | rgoseweh@digi.lonestar.org | uunet!digi!rgoseweh |
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: alien@clinet.fi (Risto Juvonen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon DOES have Super-VGA
Date: 20 Dec 1992 11:47:06 +0200
Organization: Clinet, Espoo, Finland.
NNTP-Posting-Host: clinet.fi

wells_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (steve wells) writes:
: There is a 'Super-VGA' card for the MS-DOS machine.  The Falcon's 'Super VGA'
: is not compatible with this.  Nuff said!

 And very few of MS-DOG 'super-vga' cards are compatible to each
other. Yes, I've faced this too many times to like sm-dog...

: ==============================================================================
: | If I told you how much I needed this, I wouldn't have time to eat it!  ZB  |
: ==========================WELLS_S@KOSMOS.WCC.GOVT.NZ==========================

       _/_/_/_/    _/        _/   _/_/_/_/     _/      _/
      _/    _/    _/        _/   _/           _/_/    _/
     _/_/_/_/    _/        _/   _/_/_/       _/  _/  _/
    _/    _/    _/        _/   _/           _/    _/_/
   _/    _/    _/_/_/_/  _/   _/_/_/_/     _/      _/
                               VISUAL ART PRODUCTION

Risto Juvonen               Internet: alien@clinet.fi
Merisotilaantori 3 c 26     Fidonet:  @SMACK! (2:220/110.0)
00160 Helsinki, Finland     tel.358-(9)0-654804
------------------- Generation X --------------------------
From: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: "DiskDoubler" type program
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 15:58:18 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <71746@cup.portal.com> <4867@wet.UUCP>

Ed Krimen writes:

>Why is its future unclear?  Are you talking again about things that you know
>nothing about, Bob?  I've had a beta version of Data Diet 2.0 for quite a wh
>and I expect upgrades for version 1.0 owners to start shipping this month.
>I have the flyer right here.

Not at all.. I've beta-tested Data Diet too...
It's just that we've seen this same scenario played out in the
Atari market in the past, and not always with good results.

BobR
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: kfason@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Kevin Fason)
Subject: TIFF viewer
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:10:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

I havea .TIF(F) and am looking for a viewer for it.  I have a Mega/STE 
and want it to use the colors.  The TIFF is of the Falcon.  I looked at it
on a 386/33, but want to see it on my machine.  thanx!

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: abjod@robots (Jim O'Donnell)
Subject: Re: Email... Internet > GEnie .. how?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center - Robotics Lab
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:27:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.171239.15127@newshost.lanl.gov>, hutch@bellman.lanl.gov writes...
>And as nice as CIS is, it's still *very* expensive, compared to GEnie.
>For Atari users, GEnie is a _much_ better online service, with much
>more active Atari support than CIS and it's also the "official" online
>service of Atari Corporation (for what that's worth).  CIS is huge and
>offers a _lot_ of services, but Atari-related stuff is better on GEnie.

   On the other hand, it costs $9.95/month to subscribe to the internet 
service on GEnie, and only $7.95/month to subscribe to CompuServe 
itself. Once on CompuServe, connect time in the e-mail system is free 
and you get a $9/month e-mail credit. I realize that GEnie and 
CompuServe charge differently for e-mail, but up to a certain volume 
(and I haven't figured out what that level is) CompuServe is a better 
deal for internet e-mail because for a comparable price you are getting 
internet e-mail _and_ access to all of CompuServe's other services 
(some of which are free of connect time charges).

   I use GEnie for Atari-related stuff, and CIS for e-mail (though I do 
most of that from work, now) and Eaasy Sabre (airline and other travel 
reservations). GEnie offers access to Eaasy Sabre as well, but the last 
time I checked they charged connect time for it, while CIS did not. 
Does anyone know if this has changed?

   --- Jim O'Donnell, abjod@stdvax.gsfc.nasa.gov

PS The views expressed here are my own, etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah...
From: J.D.Coleman@newcastle.ac.uk (Julian Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Hebrew PostScript fonts for PageStream?
Keywords: Pagestream, fonts, Postscript
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:25:04 GMT
Organization: Computing Service, University of Newcastle, UK.


In article <1992Dec11.160514.8404@cca.vu.nl>, hjb@gad.th.vu.nl
(Hendrik Jan Bosman) writes:
>
>Is there a Hebrew Font for the DTP program PageStream? I would especially
>be interested in a PostScript font.
>
>If not, does anybody know how to use any other PostScript Hebrew font
>in PageStream? The problem would probably not be the PostScript
>definition, which is supposed to be uniform, but the bitmapped fonts
>that PageStream uses for its own screen.
>

There is a large collection of Postscript type 1 fonts on src.doc.ic.ac.uk, in
directory /computing/systems/ibmpc/windows3/fonts/atm.  I think this is a mirror
of ftp.cica.indiana.edu.  There are 3 Hebrew fonts - shalosti.zip, shaloscr.zip
and shaloold.zip.

I have also seen a Hebrew Soft-Logik font somewhere.  Does anyone know of a site
with other Soft-Logik fonts, or a Postscript <-> Soft-Logik font converter?

Julian

--
--     Julian Coleman, Computing Service,      |  j.d.coleman@newcastle.ac.uk
--  Claremont Tower, University of Newcastle,  |  as967@cleveland.freenet.edu
--   Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, England.    |  - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-- Phone +44-91-222-8068  Fax +44-91-222-8232  |  #include <std_disclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: elric@mik.uky.edu (chris dotson)
Subject: IMG Scan
Organization: University of Kentucky
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:08:58 GMT

Does anyone know where I can get the software for the IMG Scanner?
'Twas a little cartridge that had a reader that connected to the printer,
and used the printer to scan a picture.  I bought the scanner at an auction,
and the software is nowhere to be found.  Does Seymour-Radix still exist?

Thanks,

Chris Dotson
elric@mik.uky.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu)
Subject: Re: Falcon - Future
Organization: SAR Systems Development & Processing, JPL
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:56:50 GMT

In article <37831@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
>> The thing about Atari ASV is that is ASV -- Atari System V. That means that
>> you can buy off-the-shelf SysV 68K binaries and they'll run on your TT. This
>> is better for people who want to do serious Unix work, rather than compile
>> other sources.
>
>Is it ABI complient?  Are there any off the shelf binaries available?

Yes, it is ABI compliant. I would ask the second question myself; it doesn't
seem that SVR4 is very popular on the 68K platform. In fact, the ABI supplement
for 68K went out of print last year; I had a very hard time getting my hands
on a copy.
-- 
  -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA

All true wisdom is conveyed in one-line witticisms.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: naffara@crc.ac.uk (Dr. N.A. Affara)
Subject: HELP please!
Followup-To: poster
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:22:58 GMT

I have just got a second hand Mega ST4 + hard disk (SH205).
I am well chuffed with it!!!!

But I have a few (ok, lots of) questions:-
1. The desktop info says copyright 1986,1987. Is this TOS 1.0 or 1.2?
2. What fixes will I need for this, and also for 1.4 which is in my ST?
3. What programs/files do I need to keep the hard disk working?
   (eg ahdi.prg (?) + HD???.???)
   (The basic programs to make it work, and anything to format it etc.)
4. Ratehd.prg tells me the SH205 has an Adaptec 4000/4070 controller, 88 ms 
   seek rate (pretty crap!) and 299Kb/sec transfer rate. How does the transfer
   rate compare with other hard disks (like a Protar which I am going to get)
   and also floppies?
5. It has a blitter, but I haven't opened it up (yet!) to see what else there
   is. (eg VME (?) or whatever you call it). If it has got one, what can I put
   in it?
6. It is suprising how fast you can fill up 20 megs, especially when just the
   fonts for Timeworks take up 5 megs!
7. Will a cache of some kind speed up the HD? (I am still not satisfied!)
   If so, which programs are recommended?
8. Is it possible to upgrade the mega to TOS 1.4? (how, cost, is it worth it?)
9. Anything else I should get or know?

Thanks for taking the trouble to get this far :-)
Phil
(E-mail naffara@uk.ac.crc)
(or maybe naffara@crc.ac.uk)
-- 
Kryten (When Cat says why don't we raise the defensive shields?) "A superlative
suggestion sir,with only two drawbacks: one,we don't have any defensive shields
and two,we don't have any defensive shields.I know that,technically,that's only
one drawback,but it was such a big one I thought I'd mention it twice".
From: EENG6826@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: GFA 3.07: RESERVE XX; EXEC 0,"prg"; RESERVE - help.
Date: 20 Dec 92 18:41:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute

RESERVE 10000
R%=EXEC(0,"MYPROG.PRG","","")
RESERVE

It always worked for me. I think you have to leave more then 8Kb because
of some GEM Resources or something.

Carlos Varela
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,aus.forsale
From: matthew@hitech.com.au (Matthew Smith-Stubbs)
Subject: Atari ST game forsale 
Organization: HI-TECH Software, Brisbane, QLD, Australia.
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 03:07:18 GMT


 For Sale : Original copy of NAVY SEALS. It's a good shoot-em-up game
 very good graphics and medium level of difficulty. Original disk with
 original documentation in original box. 6 months old. 

     Requires : 
		Joystick
		Single-Sided disk drive
		1/2 meg of memory
		Runs in low resolution.


	Price : $40    I will pay postage.

 - Matthew

--
 Matthew Smith-Stubbs       \  Whoever laughs last - probably didn't get    
 Brisbane, Australia          \  the joke in the first place, I always   
 E-mail : matthew@hitech.com.au \ say.
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Z*NET Atari International Issue 9222
Date: 15 Dec 92 07:00:33 GMT
Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Parnell New Zealand.


 In this weeks issue which can be found in alt.znet.pc you will 
 see the following .....
 

 ## Falcon Bundled With D2D        ## Syquest Files Lawsuit
 ## 1992 Year In Review - Part 1   ## Music Coalition Announced
 ## Z*Net Newswire                 ## AtariNet Network
 ## IBM Considers More Layoffs     ## Perusing GEnie
 ## Kodak Photo CD Explained       ## 256MB DRAM
 ## Atarophile                     ## Injunction Filed Against Microsoft
 
 If your system does not carry the ALT.ZNET ask you sysadmin to add
 them to your news feeds.
 
 regards from the Z*NET Crew world-wide


 Jon Clarke                                                     Z*NET Pacific
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  jonc@status.gen.nz           GEnie: J.Clarke6        Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD
  Phone: (+649) 358-5589       IFNA : 3/772:105        GEM    : NZM CABLES
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988