From: rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel)
Subject: Re: INDIAN CULTURE - Subservient
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:42:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.165205.26096@csrd.uiuc.edu> ghosh@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sanjoy Ghosh) writes:

>>When and where has it been possible to "make it" without being in the
>>right place at the right time???????????????
>
>The Public sector in India.  Employment in the public sector is usually
>through competitive examinations where you get the job if and only if
>you are good enough.

I have a bridge to sell, if you are interested...

> As opposed to, for instance tbe Tata Administrative
>Services, where you get a job only if your father is a minister or a
>top civil servant at the very least.  As the public sectior shrinks one 
>sorry consequence will be that the objective component of making it will
>shrink.

It's that socialist attitude that the problem. Everyone expects the 
government to be their mother. If you want to draw any conclusions, draw
this one, the reason for the success of some of the Asian countries, is
the fact that they aren't the bureaucract jungle India is.
Jesus, you need 10 permits from 10 paper pushers just to go to the bathroom.
India's only hope is to promote a vigorous private sector. Bigger government
is a death trap. I don't sound too Republican, do I? :)
 
>>Oh! Please! A few million Indians who left aren't going to be missed with
>>somewhere around 850 million Indians in India. Unless, off course, it's those
>>wonderful IIT grads. :)
>
>Never before seen such a quantitative argument for quantity over quality.
>In the same way lets move all the C programmers of this country over to 
>India and lets see how long this country survives.  After all a majority
>of Americans are invloved in either agriculture or auto-manufacturing, and
>other such sunset industries.  

Why are you assuming that since the departure of the ~1 million Indians to
the US, India is hopelessly lost. How many of those people in the US 
represent irreplaceable talent? How many qualified people in India, can't
find a job because there are no joba available?? It is the height of 
arrogance to presume that they are irreplaceable. They are indeed may
qualified and talented people in India, even if they are not from IIT :)
>
>In other words, the million who came away should have been the "andhe
>ka laathi" to the remaining 850 million.

I never said that. I think you are giving the million that left too much
credit as to how important they are to India's development. India's problems
are much more serious than a million people leaving. It is that socialist
cesspool that likes to call itself the largest democracy in the world.

>
>>Which Asian communities were "pushed" away from American,
>>as opposed to the Indian community which was welcome with a parade down
>>Fifth Avenue??
>
>Once again you are confusing different strata of communities.  I am not
>talking about shopkeepers, grocers, and other petty merchants, but the 
>Asian intelligentsia, whose vitality I believe Prof. Parikh was applauding.  

Do you think every Indian or Asian in the US is a member of the 
intelligentsia?  Hardly. I think you better take a good look around, off that
campus and see what most Asians do? A higher percentage of them are in the
hard sciences and professional jobs, but by no means a majority of them.

>I am talking about the Korean, Taiwanese, and Japanese students who come 
>to the US for higher education.  They are pushed back to their homelands 
>not because they don't get a parade, but simply being not as familiar with
>English as Indians are, makes them feel less at home than us.  And so they 
>have a stronger desire to go back than most Indians.  That is all I meant.

What a baseless statement. You are under a false impression if you think that
foreign Indian students account for any significant percentage of the Indian
community in the US. And it is again the height of arrogance to assume that
the Indians (I am beginning to see your Indian foreign student bent)
somehow have a lock on the Indian language. You are talking about the small
minority of Indian foreign students who came to the US on student visas who
have the much touted language skills you speak of.  Most of the Indians coming
to the US nowadays, are not the intelligentsia. 

From now on, I will limit my arguments as they apply to the Indian foreign  
students, who are in reality a very, very, very small percentage of the 
Indian community in the US. It would seem that they are the majority on this
net, and have a very narrow view of the Indian community in the US.

Till next time.


Rakesh Patel