HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ADMN8647@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca (Linda Birmingham)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: THIRD TRIMESTER ABORTIONS
Date: 28 Aug 92 02:29:50 GMT
 <ceZeicS00WBK42TGI7@andrew.cmu.edu> <nyikos.714612404@milo.math.scarolina.edu>
 <1992Aug25.035838.2340@ncsu.edu> <92238.230642ADMN8647@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca>
 <1992Aug27.023550.4881@ncsu.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute

In article <1992Aug27.023550.4881@ncsu.edu> Doug Holtsinger says:
>In article <92238.230642ADMN8647@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca> Linda Birmingham writes:
>>dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:

>>> I think some pro-choicers on the net don't want to acknowledge
>>> the existence of extremists on their side, because if they did,
>>> they couldn't bash the extremists on the pro-life side without
>>> looking a little hypocritical.

>> What utter rubbish.  Do you only read posts that
>> have your name in them?
>>
>> There are a number of people in this newsgroup who
>> say they are prochoice and who have bashed prochoicers
>> they view as extremist.

>You mean like Keegan et. al. bashing Darcy, Bartley,
>and Silverio?

Not at all.  Mr. Holtsinger I suggest you reread
what I wrote, you appear to be struggling here.

>Then are you admitting that Darcy, Bartley, and Silverio
>are "pro-choice"?

Mr. Holtsinger I suggest you reread what I wrote.
Your response displays either dishonesty, foolishness
or an inability to grasp the english language.


Linda
--
They're complicated people leading complicated lives, and
he complicates their problems by telling complicated lies
     The Flag, Barenaked Ladies
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.censorship
From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Subject: Re: Operation Rescue
Keywords: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 06:47:48 GMT


[I restored alt.censorship to the newsgroups line]

I've witnessed at least a dozen clinic blockades by Operation
Rescue.  I have yet to see one that did not involve some
amount of violence and harassment by O.R. members.

I do not have newspaper articles available, but I can
certainly look them up for Mr. Ault in the near future.
In Pittsburgh, two serious incidents of violence occurred
in 1989 at O.R. blockades.  In the first, an O.R. member
named Frank Parente assaulted Capt. Gwen Eliot of the
Pittsburgh police.  (He punched her in the breast, and 
claimed in court that he thought she was a bus driver.)
In the second, an O.R. member named Hugh Amick assaulted
a clinic escort, Ralph Dyak.  (He punched him in the face.)
Both of these men were found guilty of simple assault.
Assault charges are currently pending against O.R. member
Fr. John Osterhaut for assaulting three clinic escorts
this past spring in Pittsburgh.  

Susan Faludi's book, _Backlash_, documents an assault
by O.R. members on a clinic employee in Binghamton, NY
which resulted in the woman miscarrying.

Michael Bray, currently a member of D.C.'s O.R. and
a convicted clinic bomber, has stated in a newspaper
interview that he sees nothing wrong with killing
doctors who perform abortions.  

Waving a sign at someone is not harassment.  Grabbing
someone by the arm to force them to look at bloody
fetus pictures is assault.  In Pennsylvania, following
someone around in a public place is harassment.  I
have never seen an O.R. blockade in Pittsburgh in which
so-called sidewalk counselors did not follow patients
from their cars to the clinic doors.  I have seen
them exhibit the same behavior in D.C.  

Susan



Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)
Subject: Re: Compassion (was: Re: I Tend To Be Pro-Choice Because: )
Originator: forgach@gemini.tuc.noao.edu
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:12:07 GMT

From article by andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Some call me...Drew):
> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
>>From article <hzay_hf@rpi.edu>, by cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker):
>>> 
>>> True.  In some situations, the woman can choose to die instead.
>>
>>An admirable choice for the woman brave enough to risk it.  
> 
> Suzanne, wouldn't it be FAR better for that person to get sterilized
> and start adopting, instead?  I don't find this admirable, I find it
> a colossal waste.

I am at a total loss to understand this statement.   She willingly risked
her own life to give life to 4 people, who now btw have children and grand-
children of their own.   I see nothing "waste"full in that.


>>I had a
>>great-aunt whom the doctors BEGGED to stop having children because they
>>were sure that each next one would kill her.   She had 4, and when her
>>doctor asked her "Why, why, why?", her answer was, "I can't think of a
>>more beautiful way to go."
> 
> I can't think of ANY beautiful way to go, but a death caused by selfishness
> and stupidity is worse than most.


The self-less-ness that woman displayed on the other hand, was quite beautiful.


Suzanne Forgach
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt)
Subject: Re: "Abortion" on a not-pregnant woman
Reply-To: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com
Organization: Abiogenesis 4 Less
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 23:01:24 GMT

nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
# This testimony was given by Nita Whitten, of Dallas, Texas, a former
# clinic assistant.  I am repeating it verbatim as given in _The Forerunner_
# despite the fact that some pro-choicers will find some of it
# (for example, "I decided to give my life to the Lord") highly offensive.

I've read UFO abduction tales more convincing.

-- 
J H Woodyatt (a.k.a. Dr. Strychnine)
Space Systems/Loral

"When people reached the last drop of their drinks, the face of Larry
Storch would seem to look out at them from the bottom, belch
contentedly and say, ``Now I am truly what I always was.  Pass the
corn nuts.''"
						     -- Larne Pekowsky
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity
From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Subject: Re: Proposal for a moderated abortion newsgroup
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 23:13:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.170931.13175@ncsu.edu> dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>People don't seem to have read the original proposal carefully.
>A moderated talk.abortion newsgroup would serve alongside the
>existing non-moderated talk.abortion newsgroup.  People who
>had their articles rejected on the moderated newsgroup could
>post to the non-moderated one.  Talk.abortion would remain
>untouched. 
>
>If we can find a solution to the moderator/volume problems,
>then I plan on putting out a CVD.  

We read it, DOD.  We just can't _BELIEVE_ it.
--
=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=
=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza.  OK???=
=I am not "pro-life"... - Doug Holtsinger in article                          =
=                                          <1992Aug18.171231.1162@ncsu.edu>   =
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: "Abortion" on a not-pregnant woman
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  2 Sep 92 20:46:38 GMT

In <1992Sep2.143658.3112@pwcs.stpaul.gov> chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:

>nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>> mills@uga.edu (Kathi Mills) writes:
>>> NNyikos

>>>> How many abortion clinics have you seen the inside of?  

>>> How many abortion clinics have YOU seen the inside of?

>> None, and that's part of my point: very few people are allowed to see
>> what goes on.  I asked whether Judge Kelly of Wichita, who was so 
>> zealous in guarding Tiller's right to carry on business as usual,
>> ever got to see the inside of Tiller's clinic.  I asked whether any
>> of the federal marshals who so zealously carried out Kelly's orders,
>> ever saw an abortion being performed in Tiller's clinic.  I'm still
>> waiting for the answers.

>Few, if any, of those federal marshals have seen what goes on during
>coronary bypass surgery.  Maybe they should, because...

Still you miss the point.  Few, if any of those federal marshals arrested
people for blocking coronary bypass surgery units.  And I don't think
Judge Kelly ever took such a case.  

Message to pro-lifers (most pro-choicers won't follow this one): on top
of which, coronary bypass surgery is done to save lives.  Abortion is
done to end them.

>I know there are at least three regular contributors to t.a who have
>had abortions.  If what goes on inside of an abortion clinic is so scary,
>don't you think they'd be warning us away?

>In other words, Peter, what is your point?

I don't generalize about abortion clinics in general, nor about what
happens any given day in any given abortion clinic.  It's like Russian
Roulette: if they don't let you look at which chamber the bullet is in,
would you play the game?

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Subject: Re: THIRD TRIMESTER ABORTIONS
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:01:49 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Sep1.000551.6171@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu writes:

  I missed an article somewhere in this thread.  Therefore I will restrict
myself to only the comments below, and not any of the previous post (which
makes me suspect that there is someone else I should consider responding 
to as well...).


> I want you to know that my living will states specifically that once I go
> unconscious, *NO* life-sustaining treatment is to be given to me.  There is
> no way I'm going to put my loved ones through what I went through with Jerry.

  I am unaware of the nature of your personal trauma, but I must make one 
comment.  You got to make that will.  You get to make that choice about living
and dying *for yourself*.  And in the absence of such a clear mandate from the
person involved most -- what is right?

  I would not wish to be sustained while brain-dead, I know that much.  Nor
my parents, as they have said so.  And I see little point in bearing a child
doomed to die within a very short time.

  But those are "easy" choices.  What is the morality of making such a choice
for the vast grey area that extends from perfectly healthy to doomed to die?


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Aggie in Cougarland -- I just work here.				       *
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
*             *********************************************		       *
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mark Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
Xref: sparky talk.abortion:33491 alt.sex:27602
From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.sex
Subject: With God On Our SIDE....
Date: 26 Aug 92 04:53:41 GMT
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper

margoli@watson.ibm.com writes:

] In  <1992Aug25.125323.13224@menudo.uh.edu>  HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes:
] >
] >   As Grand Poobah of the He-Man Woman-Hater's Society, I have in fact, been
] > granted just those powers under our Constitutional Charter.  In the interests
] > of peace, I have entered into this agreement with well-known bomb-throwing
] > reactionary, Mark "IRA" Kaufman, to subjugate all women to our will, return
] > them to the kitchens and washrooms where they belong,
] 
] I will fight these efforts with everything in my power, you sexist, fascist,
] misogynistic scum-sucking pig.
] 
] > and create a harem of sex-slaves to service our every depraved whim.
] 
] Umm, but if you win, we're still pals, right?  :-)


The Subject Line Says it all.....



ciao
drieux


ps: now watch some NeoPsuedoRadFemManHatingBallKrushingDykeWannabe
get all emotionally upset......


-- 
I Do Not Believe in .sig files
as they are such a Known Waste Of BandWidth,
And Therefore Not a Morally UpRight Choice.
But I Can See the HideousHienousHandOfHeteroSexualityBehindItAll.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Subject: Re: Proposal for a moderated abortion newsgroup
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:26:36 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <92237.190229ADMN8647@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca> Linda writes:

> In  <1992Aug20.202812.12068@ncsu.edu> Doug Holtsinger writes:
> 
> > I was wondering if there would be any interest in a moderated abortion
> > newsgroup.  There are so many personal attacks and insults thrown around
> > on talk.abortion that I thought it might be appropriate to have a newsgroup
> > dedicated to calm and serious discussions of the issues.
> 
> > What do people think of the idea?
> 
> That it is not surprising that someone who desires
> to control what women do with their bodies would
> wish to control the content of people's posts.
> I can't imagine any other reason for restricting
> freedom of expression.

  Well, he did at least not place his name in consideration as moderator.

> However for those that can't figure out how
> to use a F key to kill articles that either
> offend or bore them and for those that want
> to turn the issue into milktoast a moderated
> newsgroup would perhaps be convenient.
> Linda

  I can only say that the two mod groups I have read or participated in 
(sci.military and alt.atheism) seem to have no problems.  The key is always
in getting a good moderator.  From a practical standpoint, I just don't think
it'll work for talk.abortion, though.  Too many posts.

semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
* Aggie in Cougarland -- I just work here.				       *
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mark Levine: Triumph 		               *
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (exuptr@exu.ericsson.se)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.flame
Subject: Re: The Man With No Brain (Was: The world...)
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:59:25 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <2a9a6fb3.crud@crud.mn.org> trashman@crud.mn.org (Barry Schwartz) writes:
>From: trashman@crud.mn.org (Barry Schwartz)
>Subject: Re: The Man With No Brain (Was: The world...)
>Date: 26 Aug 92 00:38:00 GMT

>In article <exuptr.316.713829693@exu.ericsson.se>
>        exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor) writes:

>]What's the big deal with homophobia these days anyway?  The term seems to
>]imply that you are either gay or you fear gay.  I personally am a homo-
>]agnostic.

>What does that mean, that you don't know whether or not god is gay?

No, the greek root for gnost means "know" and has little to do with God.
Someone who says they're agnostic is literally claiming that they do not
"know".  Of course, common usage includes the "about God part".  What I was
attempting to put into one word was that I don't know if homosexuality is 
real or not, kinda like I'd rather stay out of the issue altogether most of 
the time.

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                       - D Adams
  - Patrick Taylor
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                       "Don't let the .se fool you"
    alternately, exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson's rant letter
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:28:07 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:


>   Should I feel irresponsible, because my reaction to the letter
>was one of uncontrollable laughter, as opposed to concern that an
>irrational psychopath such as Pat Robertson speaks to many people
>who actually take his rantings seriously?

I think you should be concerned....he has a lot of support, especially in
the south.  There are millions of evangelicals.  Hitler started with less 
support.

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: "only 3 doctors ... perform third trimester abortions"
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  1 Sep 92 22:08:10 GMT

In <1992Aug31.192523.24744@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> smgarvin@nyx.cs.du.edu (susan garvin) writes:

>In article <nyikos.715284833@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scaroli
>a.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:

>>"List more doctors?"  I'm still looking for someone to complete 
>>the list of three.

>You and your roving band of terrorists will just have to
>do your own research, Nyikos.

I resent that crack about terrorists.  I am no more a terrorist than
Mahatma Ghandi or Martin Luther King.  

>>So far there is George Tiller of Wichita, Kansas.  Who and where are
>>the other two?

>They're human beings who don't want women to die or be
>injured when it's preventable.  They're people who place
>the welfare of existing children, men, and women above
>that of a fetus.

Since you know so much about them, how about providing their names
to a neutral third party?  Would Jammer Jim Miller qualify?

>  They're better off not having to put
>up with your harrassment.

I haven't harrassed any of them, not even Tiller. 
Your accusation makes no more sense than if I had accused you
of harrassing Bernard Nathanson.
 On the other hand,
I condemn many of the things Luhra Tivis says Tiller has done, and some
that I can glean just from what he says about himself.

>Susan

Peter Ny.
From: sean@Unify.com (Sean P. Curley)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Proposal for a moderated abortion newsgroup
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:10:14 GMT
Followup-To: talk.abortion
Distribution: usa
Organization: Unify Corporation (Sacramento)

In article <1992Sep1.014646.25115@ncsu.edu>, dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
> ---
> From: swb@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Steve Buffum)
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.elections,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.politics.clinton
> Subject: Re: DATELINE: Clinton fucks up!
> Message-ID: <78791@ut-emx.uucp>
> 
> [....]
> 
> 	Obviously Mo has missed the point of talk.abortion.  I don't read
> the newsgroup myself, but I read alt.flame, which seems to be an alias
> for talk.abortion anyway.  As far as I can tell, talk.abortion has absolutely
> nothing to do with changing anyone's feelings or even having rational
> discussions.  It is for ranting and raving.
> 
> [...]
> 
> --
> Steve Buffum           | "Jane!  Stop this crazy thing! -- G. Jetson
> swb@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |

I agree!  I just started reading this News group and am shocked at the useless
ramblings - I was hoping for some rational, thought provoking discussions, not
a lot of clearly false opinions - on both sides of the arguments.

-- 
=========================================================================
Sean P. Curley						Unify Corporation
Engineering Manager					Sacramento, CA.
=========================================================================
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer)
Subject: Re: aborting females
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 03:13:38 GMT

tanj@catnip.berkeley.ca.us (Ren and Stimpy's Love Child) writes:

>Here's an idea to hinder sex-selection abortions.

>When the results of amniocentesis are given, the gender of the fetus should
>not be given at that time:  only the other medical information.  ONLY when
>the woman has signed an agreement to either continue or terminate the 
>pregnancy based ONLY on the non-gender medical facts, may she then know the
>sex of the fetus.

>Would that be acceptable to the pro-lifers?

>--Teddi
>------------------Another Catholic School Survivor (12 years!)-----------------

Not possible.  To begin with, quite a few genetic diseases are sex-linked i.e.
only male children get them.  Secondly, if it is "woman's body, woman's 
choice" there is no legal way a doctor could withhold the results of a 
medical test from the patient.  Every patient has every right to have full
knowledge of their medical file.  The legislation you propose is 
unconstitutional.  It also shows that you really don't believe your own
rhetoric about woman being trusted to make decisions.  Your distrust simply
has different limits, and why your arbitrary limits would be better than a
pro-lifer's arbitrary (by your light) limits is problematic.  I tried to 
phrase this letter as a 'choicer would have phrased it, so route flames
to /dev/null

Steve Kellmeyer

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Subject: Re: The fact of "unrestricted abortion on demand throughout pregnancy"
Reply-To: dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:06:18 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.202505.5120@ncar.ucar.edu> 
kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman) writes:

>decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz) writes:

>> [...]   Call 1-800-777-TEXT and ask for a transcript of the
>> 60 Minutes telecast of this past Sunday (August 20th?), which
>> was a repeat, about the Lambs of Christ.  I had it on in the
>> background while I was working and they did state that there
>> are only three doctors in the US who perform third trimester abortions.

> To be more accurate, I think the statement was that there are only three 
> doctors in the US who in SPECIALIZE third trimester abortions.

Do you know where 60 Minutes got this so-called fact?  

> [...]
> Can anyone post the text of the 60 Minutes piece?

I've ordered a transcript.  You'll see a post from me in about 
a week. 
 
>-Brian


Doug Holtsinger

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: smgarvin@nyx.cs.du.edu (susan garvin)
Subject: Re: Did someone ask about misogynist pro-life loons?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 20:15:42 GMT


Pennsylvania, home of the Pennsylvania Abortion Control
Act of 1989, has an ERA in its state constitution.  So
much for the ERA protecting abortion rights.

Susan
From: rja@redwood26.cray.com (Russ Anderson)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Roe v. Wade and abortion (was Re: Another good reason to vote for Bush
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:34:50 GMT
Organization: The 1991 World Champion Minnesota Twins!
Originator: rja@redwood26


In (Doug Holtsinger) writes:

> I'd be quite happy to overturn the "government fiat" known as 
> Roe v. Wade and have the abortion issue returned to the states
> where it rightfully belongs.  Let the people decide the issue.

I take it this means Doug opposes the Republican platform's call
for a constitutional amendment banning abortion because it would
prohibit individual states from deciding the abortion issue.

-- 
Russ Anderson    |  Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect
------------------              upon my employer or anyone else.  (c) 1992
EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion