HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Cost Differences???
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:29:23 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems


>	My theory is that the source of this anti-traditionalism often comes
>from people who are effective fighters, but do not have recognition from
>"traditional" organizations. So, to validate their own authority, they turn
>into tradition-phobes, and claim that traditional training is bogus and that
>their new, improved, modern system is infinitely better.
>	As far as I am concerned, this kind of anti-traditionalism is a
>political expediency masquerading as objective truth.

It's an interesting theory; in this case, objective truth lies where the face meets the floor.  If bowing and "Mastering" and kata and horse stances contribute to improved fighting capability, I'll draw water and chop wood.  If they do not, then they are
well and good in their own right, but I'd rather be working out with a speed bag.
Aged masters flinging off (loyal, respectful, willing) students like drops
of water make nice stories and encourage students to shell out bucks for the
long run, while being content with slow return for time spent.

I don't know anything about anti-traditionalism per se, but my concern is
solely pragmatic, and has to do with expediency.  I have little patience with
self proclaimed masters who leave much to be desired, but surround themselves
with the aura of special knowledge.  Poltical expediency, in this case, is
secondary to expediency in winning the fight.  Emphasis is on "martial."


>	Personally, I'm not big on mystique. But showing respect for tradition
>isn't a matter of mystique - it's a matter of appreciating something which is
>older, bigger and perhaps more important than yourself.

If we're talking about martial arts, tradition which improves fighting ability always deserves respect.  Confronting a street-fighting alley bully with my horse stance and reverse punch, taught me by a self-proclaimed Master, will teach me a whole new level of respect, however.  

I'm not against tradition per se.  I just think the student should go in with his eyes
open, and constantly question what he's being taught.  Not only will this benefit
the student, but it will also encourage the instructor to keep on his toes.

	Dave

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.tv
From: ddukhovn@nyx.cs.du.edu (The Great Harlequin)
Subject: Re: Kung Fu TV series
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 18:35:27 GMT

In article <BvoLK0.7x8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.231445.23293@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jes2x@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (John Sommerville) writes:
>AIEE!  It always amazes me that people liked this movie.  I can see
>that it might have been good with Lee, but with Carradine and his
>blonde bohunk barbarian buddy, it is a real stinkeroo!  Danger,
>Danger, Will Robinson!  Run Away!  Run Away!
>
>Dakin
>burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

So, my friend, tell me what you though was wrong with it other than the fact
that the two lead actors hadn't made any OTHER good movies.  What, pray tell,
did it lack?  (This is not an attack...I truly am curious how someone could
dislike this movie.)

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: How students exagerates... :)
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:57:46 GMT

In article <1a2risINNmti@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa727@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Johnny Wu) writes:
>
>Before you judge the action of a person, THINK!
>Re-examine yourself first!  
>What have I done to deserve this?  Answer it!
>Then, let GOD be the judge of all!

	Who??
From: warlock@pro-haven.cts.com (Tye Botting, SysAdmin)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Cost Differences???
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:06:29 GMT
Organization: ProLine [pro-haven] - Pariahs' Haven BBS, 409/693-8262, 9600-300

In <1992Sep25.230838.4932@sfu.ca> guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay) writes:

% My Hapkido instructor says, on average it takes 3.5 years to earn your black
% belt if you take 3 two-hour classes a week. Being that Hapkido training is
% rather harsh on the system, one doesn't want to do more than that. I also
% do Hung Gar Kung Fu, and that feels like a light work out in comparison to

        ????????!!!

        You must not be in a very traditional Hung Gar class, then.  It
        should be some of the hardest workouts you've *ever* had, as a
        regular matter of course.  Hung Gar is famous for that kind of
        pushing, stress, and exactness.

% Hapkido. Yet I prefer Hapkido and after the 10 week Kung Fu class is over
% I'm concentrating on Hapkido (I guess I must be a bit of a masochist <sp?>
% :-)) Seriously, Hapkido seems to be a more complete system (kicking, punching,
% locks, traps, and grappling) and seems more to the point self-defensewise. 
% But hey, whatever works for you is okay :-) 


warlock@pro-haven.cts.com          Warlock            6 ventilations & 2 tats
warlock@tamu.edu                 Tye Botting       N.Shaolin/N.Praying Mantis
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pariah's Haven BBS (pro-haven)  409/693-8262    3/12/24/96 v.32/v.42bis/MNP 5
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of Kimiwasa?
Date: 6 Oct 1992 15:52:32 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com



Kimiwaza seems to be a misspelling of Kime-Waza.

Kime means to focus. In Kodokan Judo, Kime refers
to self-defense. There are specific exercises which
have been developed to "preserve" a self-defense aspect
of a "moral" art.

Perhaps someone decided to borrow a word and put a
bunch of stuff together. And claim it has been around
for centuries. (Indirectly a true statement, since man
has been fighting for milenium. :-))

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: twh73@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: Anyone have a stretching machine for sale?
Reply-To: twh73@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 05:50:16 GMT

I am posting this for a friend, does anyone have a stretching  machine for
sale?  (If you could email any information to me I would greatly appreciate
it.  Thankes.



stiletto
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Self-Defense in Boston
Summary: Sideline, Parkinsonism can be caused by head trauma.
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:38:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes...
stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>>
>>hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) writes...
>>> 
>>Ali has Parkinson's disease, so I've been told.  While there may be some 
>>tenuous relationship with his fighting career that worsened or accelerated 
>>the condition, most boxers do not get Parkinson's, and most people suffering 
>>from Parkinson's are not boxers, so your implied causal connection is 
>>probably not correct.  
> 
Steve>My copy of the _Merck_Manual_ lists repeated head trauma as one of the
Steve>known causes of Parkinsonism. It's certainly not the most common cause
Steve>of it - but in Ali's case it may very well have had something to do with
Steve>it. 

Thanks for adding that, Steve.  Sorry, Peter, I was probably mistaken
about the connection.  I appreciate the education.

							todd
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cschum@engin.umich.edu (Corey Joseph Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Shorin-Ryu vs Shotokan
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 09:37:19 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <90+p9kn@lynx.unm.edu> haro@triton.unm.edu (..KANEDA..) writes:
>Which is better Shorin-ryu or Shotokan?
>
>and which of the two is better if they matched each other.
>
>
>Seeking infinite knowledge
>
>RICK
>
Now for the clasic net.answer:
The one with the better teacher.

I don't think there's ever a short answer to a question of which
of two styles is better.  Better for what?
>

Corey
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?)
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:05:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: PA.1992Sep30.200850.26107
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <3822@unisql.UUCP>, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes...
>	The pool _balls_ are better weapons than the cues, though...
>							wr

Not to mention the possibilities of using a good wooden _rack_ as a garotte
or to clamp on a joint lock, if you prefer pocket billiard infighting.  ;-)

Or am I entering the Twilight Zone again ?  :-)

								todd
From: pals@ipact.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: So, some advice on deciding, please? (TKD or H)
Date: 25 Sep 92 12:34:44 CDT
Organization: IPACT, Valparaiso IN

In article <Bv2070.Hqn@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, 
shulick@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
> 
> If some idiot on the street threatens me, I want to be able to ...
> ... inflict a reasonable amount of damage so said person won't mess with 
> me anymore.

Sounds like a Cobra Kai Karate dojo is the place you are looking for.

-- 
Randy Pals                |pals@ipact.com
IPACT, Inc.               |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn)
Subject: Re: A few questions about T'ai Chi..
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:34:59 GMT

fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:

>In article <1204@xlnt.COM> david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:
>>The two man form is something entirely different.  The two man form is
>>just a two person form.

>Actually, I saw _two_ two-man forms: One was, as you say, just a two
>person form. The other looked very similar, but was much more free form
>(like what you might imagine taiji sparing would be like.) Unfortunately,
>I can't recall the name of either. (And, no, I'm not confusing push hands
>as something else. That was definitely _not_ what I saw...)

My sifu (Peter Yu) says there are 3 major variants of the san sau forms in
Yang style TC. The oldest came from Shanghai (or filtered from the north
to there) and involved not much stepping and turning - was more like push 
hands with some engagement and dis-engagement - but, of course it was very 
applications specific.   [Most popular on mainland]

The second version evolved from this with the inclusion of more moves and 
some stepping and it came also from China, but _more_ south than Shanghai.
[Most popular in and around Hong Kong].

The third variant was a refinement of these two, and included extensive 
stepping and step-turning within its movement. [Most popular in Taiwan
- considered the best (by some), and hardest to teach]. 

Peter talked about 6 variations he knew about, but said there were probably 
_very_many_, as individual sifus included and deleted moves - more a result 
of practice and body type than of deliberate invention. 

[I counted 87 individual transitions in part A and about 92 in part B - 
B has a different rhythm [bit waltzy] than A [more two step] - this joint 
form can be completed in 70 seconds, but is 'best tempo' in about 90-100 sec
- then you swap roles].

Learning San Sau _beyond_ joint practice is to go into _free_ practice with
a partner ("san sau" == "free hands"). It took Peter about 15 months to
start teaching us ways into this practice - we had to be "synch'ed" into
the moves well enough. Then we were to blend da lu moves with san sau 
- starting from da lu (where there were common points, to slip from one to 
the other).  It becomes remarkably easy to slot into this! More practice,
the better...

There are typically 2-4 different continuations from just about everything 
- practicing _in_sequence_, you know exactly what's next, practicing
_free_, you make it up (and experiment). The next stage is to also use non-
continuation moves (the 'finish the fight' rather than allow flow) - these
extra moves must be learnt separately and much later than the basic sequences.

I hope this bridges some gaps. Frank may have seen variant 1 and variant 3,
and maybe the better one was done with some free continuations...

Tomasso.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Taido/Hakamas
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:33:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.073939.28998@ousrvr.oulu.fi> leiwo@phoenix (Jussi Leiwo) writes:
>
>Hi !
>
>...I'd like to know if there are anybody who knows where I could order a pair 
>of hakamas. Please, if you know, so let me know, too. You can answer here or
>contact me.

	Bujin Design
	640 Dewey Avenue
	Boulder CO
	80304
	USA
	(303) 444-7663

	They offer four different styles of hakama running from $69.00 to
	$92.00.  Well made and worth the money, though I have seen better
	but the prices were correspondingly higher.  A good buy for the money
	(I have one :) ).

	-Andy V.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: On Explaining Aikido
Summary: KI is useful but not essential in explanations.
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 30 SEP 92 10:56:01    


gion@chopin.udel.edu (Timothy C. Gion) writes...
>In article <eric.t.zmarzly.1-290992200723@129.74.199.127> eric.t.zmarzly.1@nd.edu (Eric Zmarzly) writes:
>>try to explain Aikido.  I use such words as redirecting the attack, but
>>that does not capture to sense of Aikido and Ki and all that weird stuff. 
>>If I start speaking of such things, people get put off by it, as Notre Dame
>>is extremely catholic and very conservative on such matters.  I am not sure
> 

People also get put off because the explanations describing Ki as a weird 
force are flat wrong.  It is a very commonplace psychospiritual concept,
and aspects of it are found in virtually every culture.  Just not expressed in
exactly the same way.  Someone with difficulty here probably just need more 
experience translating Ki ideas into other cultural idioms (and a better 
understanding of what it is), in my opinion.   

In particular, the 'spiritual' component in Japanese culture,
in Shinto and esoteric and Zen Buddhist life is interwoven into descriptions 
of nature in a different way than in the exoteric religions of the West, and 
those Japanese religions underlie a great deal of the concepts in martial 
arts.  Especially when we deal with the modern _Do_ forms, and Aikido is 
a particularly pointed example because of Ueshiba Morihei's personal 
idiosyncrasies.

>If you are worried about explaining ki, you might want to use the 'scientific'
>explanantion... invisible energy that surrounds the universe... 

>Timothy Gion AKA  /     \     University of Delaware - Computer Science

This was a joke, I hope.  If not, the standards for the science curriculum at 
U of D need some looking at ... :-)

The aspects that are too subtle or complex to explain with simple physics
are quite easy to describe with metaphor and imagery.  In this respect, 
it is quite useful, but not absolutely essential to use the vital force 
concept.   And certainly not essential to carry over the entire Zen culture
in explaining the performance of technique.  And if an intelligent,
well-educated Westerner, schooled in the scientific models, is completly
_dependent_ on the Ki concept it to explain what is happening, they probably 
don't really understand what is going on in the technique.   In my opinion, 
from my own experience.   

								todd
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: moore@esseye.si.com (David Moore)
Subject: Re: Need address for Aiki News
Keywords: Aiki News
Organization: Smiths Industries
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:05:54 GMT

In <529@wavefront.wti.com> pcs@wavefront.wti.com (Peter Slaughter) writes:

Phone 1-800-877-2693 to subscribe (518-436-9686 outside US)

Aiki News
Tamagawa Gakuen 5-11-25-204,
Machida-shi, Tokyo-to 194, Japan

>Does anyone know the mailing address for Aiki News. I'd like to get
>a subscription to their magazine. Is it a good publication?

>Peter
>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Peter Slaughter		pcs@wti.com 		Wavefront Technologies Inc.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
David Moore                    | moore@si.com
Smiths Industries              |
Grand Rapids Michigan          | my comments are my own -- not my employers'.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Subject: Re: Nike Style Tai Chi?
    <1992Sep29.151625.7173@srg.srg.af.mil> <13686@pogo.wv.tek.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:42:46 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <13686@pogo.wv.tek.com> roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.151625.7173@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
>>
>>     A friend of mine has a problem with his Tai Chi practice, which I will
>>present to the net for solutions.  He has assiduously practiced for several
>>years, and has recently acquired a pair of Nike pump sport shoes.  Now each
>>time he fa jings, the pumps inflate suddenly and blow out.  Is this a known
>>manufacturing defect, or is he simply misdirecting his chi?  This problem is
>>rapidly becoming expensive.
>>
> 
>   This is a serious problem.  In fact the only known solution
>   is to, I know this may sound radical, practice in your
>   barefeet.  We kendo players have known for years that ki
>   shoots out the bottom of our feet.  This is why none of us 
>   dares to wear shoes during class.  If you need more info
>   you should talk with my friend Stumpy.
> 
>-- 
Why not get a pair of those cheap Chinese slipper things?  They work great
fo doing Tai Chi, and they can double as emergency dress shoes.

Charles Yeomans
cyeomans@ms.uky.edu
yeomans@austin.onu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: afsar@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (COOL CAT)
Subject: 91 Daihatsu $5300/best offer
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 22:40:21 GMT


1991 DAIHATSU Charade (SE) $5300.
    5 spd manual transmission.
    2 door hatchback. 
    Red w/ gray interior.
    Sony AM/FM cassette stereo.
    Fuel injected 3 cylinder engine.
    Power Steering
    Warranty: 36000 miles 
    14K miles on the car.
    Well maintained, perfect condition, just like new.
    $5300 or best offer.

    This is a very nice and smooth car with a lot of room and it gives me 38 
    miles per gallon in town and 45/48 miles per gallon in freeway. 
    Reason to sell: I will relocate to Colorado.
	     Dave.

    Email: afsar@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com
    Tel: (408) 743 - 2078
    Tel: (408) 578 - 4746
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Akido -vs- Akijitsu
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:23:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <1992Oct3.031722.22270@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> psun@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Peter C. Sun) writes:
>
>	Can someone please explain to me the difference between Akido 
>	and Akijitsu? A local school teaches Akijitsu which i'm
>	completely unfamiliar with... what are the differences?

	Hmmm.... I went on a rant about this about 4 or 6 months ago.
	Perhaps this is a FAQ item??

	Well OK, you talked me into it. 

	Aikido was derived from Aiki Jujutsu, Japanese combat art from Hell.
	It is a modified form of AJJ the has come to stress different things
	from AJJ, like spiritual enlightenment and kissing your enemy before
	driving your fist throught their skull.

	Aiki Jutsu is the art of developing and applying aiki.  The closest
	analog I can think of is Chi Kung, and perhaps a bit of Tai Chi.

	-Andy V.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Subject: Re: Shorin-Ryu vs Shotokan
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:48:33 GMT

In article <90+p9kn@lynx.unm.edu>, haro@triton.unm.edu (..KANEDA..) writes:
>Which is better Shorin-ryu or Shotokan?
>
>and which of the two is better if they matched each other.
>

well, let's see.

shotokan has powerful punches to the face, throat, ribs and groin, 
so has shorin-ryu. shotokan has spear hand strikes to
the eyes, so has shorin ryu; shotokan has elbow strikes to the spine, so has
shorin ryu; shotokan has knee attacks to the head and body, so has shorin-ryu;
shotokan has shuto strikes to the throat and neck, so has shorin ryu; shotokan
has front kicks to the groin, throat and face, so has shorn ryu; shotokan has
roundhouse kicks to the temple and kidney, so has shorin ryu; shotokan has
kicks to the knee and thigh, so has shorin ryu; shotokan has foot sweeps,
throws and joint locks, so has shorin ryu.

now, what was the question?

-mukund
From: mhirsch@atomic.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: To friends of Stephen Chan and Stephen
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:06:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: atomic.MHIRSCH.92Sep29120624
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science
Originator: news@nimaster

Apologies for the wasted bandwidth.

Has anyone got a working address for Stephen?  I don't think anything
I send gets through.  He writes me, but never replies to my replies so
I think he doesn't get them.

Yo, Stephen!  Thanks for the Karate info.  Got any alternate email routes?
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:36:57 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1a0gn7INNm0q@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> turnbull@ces.cwru.edu (John Turnbull) writes:

>>Violence is (unfortunately, perhaps) a normal part of the world. Saying 
>>it is "wrong" is almost irrelevant (death by disease is also "wrong",
>>as are a great many other things.) Adopting this moral outlook doesn't
>>change the world or make you immune to attacks.

>	I'm not convinced that violence is a normal part of life. Maybe I'm
>just lucky, but I have not been in a violent confrontation at all, although
>there may have been some situations which could have turned violent (but I'll
>never know now). Basically it seems to me that for the most part one can live
>without violence, or maybe I'm just lucky so far.

I think you are either lucky, or live in a different world than I do. Living
in a different world is quite possible if you are rich and/or have never
lived in a city like Washington D.C. or Oakland.

                                                     Frank Crary
                                                     CU Boulder
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: naf?
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:32:25 GMT


>02-Oct-92 13:35 bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar) Kung Fu TV series

>Good news! Although the series was really pretty naf it was what 

naf?
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts