HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hongbin@leland.Stanford.EDU (Hongbin Isaac Liu)
Subject: Questions about the Protection Bill
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 18:48:22 GMT

Hi, everyone! I am new to this news group, and have some questions about the 
Protection Bill posted in this network. Could anyone tell me what the the bill
is about? Thanks in advance.
From: lix@yangtze.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Forward a good counter-lecture to me
Date: 10 Oct 92 20:48:57 GMT
Organization: Boston University

Sanyee gave me a very good counter lecture. With his consent, I'm
forwarding it to SCC, though I still value my <<Ci Hai>> highly.

=================================================================
You write,

> From <<Ci Hai>> (1979 edition, ShangHai) p1297:
>
> (Wood+Meeting) I. Gui, also Kuai, (1) name of plant,... (2) painting
> on the cover of ancient coffin,....
>
> II. Hui, name of Qin Hui of South Song.

Not means to disappoint you, but you may have the worst <<Ci Hai>> you
can get :-).  The 1979 edition was a modification on a pre-CR edition,
with quite a number of political junks.  It is also dubious on many
cultural matters.

Rhyme book compiled in South Song only gives Kuai.  However, Qin was
born in Nanjing.  In Wuyuu, it sounds as Kui, close to Gui.  In my
last post, I said "at least in the north part of China," it should be
pronounced as Kuai, because I am from Wuyuu area and suspect Gui is
a south pronunciation.  Now another netter gives a story to support
it.

So where Hui comes from?  Looks like it is from Beijing opera :-).  Netter
from Beijing said this is the sound in opera.  And your Ci Hai shows Hui
is never used in places other than Qin's name.

Many Beijing opera's pronunciations entered dictionary during '60s.  Xue
(blood) is an example.  It used to have only one pronunciation in the
dictionaries.  But since Little Changbao sang

    Xue4 (blood) Zhai Yao Yong Xie3 (blood) Lai Chang !
    (blood debt must be paid with blood)

Now every dictionary gives two pronunciations :-).

Well, no one seems to check every character in compile a dictionary, they
just copy each other.  So Hui and Xie will be here to stay.  And language
is changing all the time.  But to claim Hui is the _correct_ pronunciation
is a judgment a bit sweeping.

One may ask then where Beijing opera's Hui comes from?  My guess is it comes
from Hui Zhou dialect (Anhui Province).  You may be able to find a couple
of Huizhou Lao to check it.

As far as traditional culture is concerned, I only use dictionaries published
before 1949 :-).
======================End of Sanyee's message===============================

-- 
The SOS China Education Fund is a non-political, non-profit and independent
organization to raise money promoting the education in rural China. All donations
are tax-deductable. Make checks or money orders payable to: "SOS China Education
Fund"; c/o Jie KANG, 2610 E. 5th Pl, Apt. 1, Tulsa, OK74104, USA.
From: chen@digital.sps.mot.com (Jinfu Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Traditional vs Simplified Characters
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:10:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: digital.5bb8e2b7.1b2f0
Organization: Motorola, LICD, SPS, Mesa, AZ

In article <81507@ut-emx.uucp> onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Drew) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.175529.22944@chpc.utexas.edu> byab345@chpc.utexas.edu (Da Kuang) writes:
>
>To recap:  The original posting was about the changing of the traditional 
>Chinese char to simplified char.  
>
>Who is responsible for making the changes, I don't know and I'd love to know.
>I'm against the change though.  I agree that language changes as time goes 
>by.  However, imposed change like what the PRC did to Chinese char only 
>renders meaning and prettiness to simplicity.

Many so-called traditionalists insist simplified Chinese characters are one
of the top ten sins of CCP.  Unfortunately, they are either blind to read
anything other than published papers or never write anything with hands.  

While it's true some of simplified characters are created in recent years by
some PRC agencies, majority of the ones being used today have been used in
hand writing for years, including by people in Taiwan.  The process of
simplifying Chinese characters is no different than what Americans use words
like color instead of colour which the British probably insist improper use
of English.

It may be my illusion but I find hard to not pointing out every once a while
some young kids just come out of Taiwan and start exposing themself to the
"ugly" reality and instead of trying to cope with they start reciting the old
KMT's party line about pin-ying and simplified characters.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:27259 soc.culture.hongkong:12130 soc.culture.taiwan:14176
From: wlin@byron.u.washington.edu (Wei Lin ~{AVgb~})
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: [Info] Table of Contents, HXWZ #80
Date: 9 Oct 92 03:18:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct9.031810.8706
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Dear Netters,

	HXWZ is a weekly electronic magazine in the Chinese language
published by China News Digest (CND).

>From      Executive Editor:  Zhang, Ming < cnd-cm@sdsc.edu >

                           Hua Xia Wen Zhai
                        (CND Chinese Magazine)
                              Issue #80
                            October 9, 1992

------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Table of Contents (cm9210b)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Inside China: Children and "Diseases".......................Wang Bing
2. Around the World: VOA in China................................Xiao Du
3. Poem: Losing Control..................................Jacques Prevent
4. Travel: Impression of Taiwan.............................Wu Fangcheng
5. Essay: I Love Mountain Tai................................Wang Zengqi
6. Humor: Turtles and Rider........................................Yu Fu
7. "We" (Wo Men): Loneliness....................................Zhao Tai
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A print-ready version of the current issue (in PostScript) is
    available in gb/cnd-cm subdirectory at ahkcus.org via anonymous
    ftp. See HXWZ_PS.hlp in the same directory for instructions.
    Please avoid printing HXWZ in peak hours on a multi-user printer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To subscribe to CND Chinese Magazine:
Send a mail to  LISTSERV@UGA.BITNET    with no subject line.
The mail body should contain only one line

sub CCMAN-L      full name

where the "full name" is your full name.
------------------------------------------------------------
To quit from CND Chinese Magazine:
Send a mail to  LISTSERV@UGA.BITNET    with no subject line.
The mail body should contain only one line

unsub CCMAN-L 
-----------------------------------------------------------
The machine will handle your request automatically, and you
will be notified about the processing of your request.
-----------------------------------------------------------
For detailed information/help, please E-mail to:
             LISTSERV@UGA.BITNET
The mail body should contain only one line:
             GET CMHELP INDEX
-----------------------------------------------------------
The BITNET node name UGA.BITNET is equivalent to internet
	uga.uga.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------
The current issue in Hz format will be posted to newsgroup
alt.chinese.text
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan)
Subject: Re: Da4 Zha4 Lan2 and Guang1 Zha4
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:03:02 GMT

In article <Bw2GID.913@cs.psu.edu> jyw@phys.psu.edu (Jin-Yuan Wu) writes:
>>In article <ldjshbINNb5s@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin) writes:
>>
>>The mentioned few words, Kuai, Da Zha Lan, Si Gu (sillion valley) has been
>>discussed on SCC over and over. I found out people on SCC during TAM time
>>were honest. They did admit the error and fairly comitted to correct the
>>pronounciation. 
>
>What's wrong writing "Xi Gu" rather than "Si Gu"? We know you did not learn
>PinYin. However, at least two netters pointed out a few days ago 
>that if you do not like the name "Gui Gu" you can use old name "Xi1 Gu3". 
>We know you really mean silicon valley since we went through the old 
>arguments, but a new reader would think you mean either "silk valley" 
>or "death valley". 
>
>So, please fairly comitted to correct the spelling.
>
Since Mr. Lin started to express his knowledge in Chinese, he hasn't
learn anything. And I don't think he will learn anything afterwards. 
Sign... I guess part of the 30% budget is wasted, otherwise the budget
can be used for training students for the Math Olympic.

Tingli Pan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby)
Subject: Re: Oct. 1 or Oct. 10, which is the more important day for China?
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 03:58:12 GMT

cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:

>Both countries are far better than China and Taiwan in many important
>aspects, such as democracy, economy, political system, education, social
>benefit, human right, freedom, futual hopes, etc., etc.

NOPE.  None of this pro-USA bull-crap.

democracy:  depends on your definition.  Who ever said that it is bible
    that democracy is the best system in the world?  To your surprise,
    many American businessmen are saying that autocracy is a much better
    political system.  It all depends on your "definition", and your
    "belief", and your "personal interest".  Democracy is where people
    have rights to choose a dictator, if that's so, why not use autocracy
    to provide a stable environment for businesses and social development?

economy:  yes with Trillion Dollars foreign debt growing at thousands of
    dollars per second; with a non-growing economy; and high unemployment.
    Taiwan is a net creditor, no debt; it grows at around 8%; with full
    employment, and lots of cash, plus a MASSIVE trade surplus.  Who is
    better off?

Political System:  see democracy above.

Education:  is this a joke?  Have you been to American high schools?
    have you compared the education standard of USA and UK?  And do
    you know that you have to pay for University in US?  Whereas it's
    either free or subsidized in UK, Australia, HongKong, and Taiwan.

Social Welfare:  tell that to the blacks and hispanics.  50% of blacks
    live below poverty line in US.  30% of single mothers live below
    poverty line in US.  Whereas middle class in Taiwan and HongKong
    are quite strong, with almost no one living below poverty line in
    Taiwan, and small amount of poverty in HKG, mostly new immigrants.

Human Rights:  according to US standard again?  I don't see any human
    right abuses in Taiwan.  But I have seen how blacks are treated
    in the US.

Freedom:  what's your definition of freedom?  In my opinion, US has
    gone overboard with its definition of freedom.  People are free
    to own guns, free to smoke glass (in some states), but the poor
    are not free to be rich.

future hope:  given the social and economical problems of the US,
    Taiwan is much better off (ditto to the rest of East Asia).

>Giving 40 years, Purto Rico will be no difference than any other U.S. state.

Yes, with the way USA is fading....  USA will be no different to Purto Rico
in 40 years.

>Yi-Chieh

dave

-- 
1)-----------------------Rev 6:8 "... They were given authority over a quarter
of the Earth, to kill by the sword, by famine, by plague, and wild beasts."
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:27810 soc.culture.hongkong:12504 soc.culture.taiwan:14360
From: hl2a@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Haiyan  Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: SURVEY -- who do you hope wins the U.S. election?
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:16:52 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <9210132029.AA20292@einstein.physics.buffalo.edu> xiaofei@einstein.physics.buffalo.edu (XiaoFei Wang) writes:
>* 	If you don't trust Norm, why not doing a survey yourself as an
>* independent check?
>
>Strange logic. If I do not trust Norm then I have to do a survey
>myself.  And so, if I do not do a survey myself, then I have to trust
>Norm. To follow the logic, if I do not like someone who sells junk
>cars, then I need to sell good cars. If I do not like the president,
>then I need to run president myself. 

If somebody does not trust Norm and would think he would cheat on the 
survey, he/she could do an independent check to reveal his biased 
statistics.  Or he/she does not tell Norm his opinion.  Most people
would have his/her own opinion to vote whoever as president.  SOmeone
once did a survey on how many people would support the bill and how many
would not and he himself supoorted the bill, if I did not remember wrong.
From: Frank
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Sue Shannon
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:34:46 GMT
Organization: Santa Clara, California.

In article 30537@m.cs.uiuc.edu, yang@dante.cs.uiuc.edu (Der-Shung Yang) writes:
>N1.JYZ@isumvs.iastate.edu (joe) writes:
>
>>I strongly agree with the idea to sue this Shannon Yeh. He has
>>passed the boundary of free speech. IFCSS should file a
>>class action case against his letter and remarks. Let's show
>>him the justice he deserves!
>
>I like to know what your definition of the "boundary of free speech" is.
>(Followups please focus on the issue of "free speech", not anything else.
>Please don't mistake me as Yeh's supporter. Thanks.)
>
>--
>DerShung Yang    
>yang@cs.uiuc.edu 
>Beckman Institute
>Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign


Please check misc.jobs.offered then you will see why everybody can sue Shannon.
He posted an article that asked U.S. employers stop hiring Chinese students.
What a shame !  That against the EEO. 

Frank 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:27838 soc.culture.taiwan:14375 soc.culture.hongkong:12531
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: Re: Oct. 1 or Oct. 10, which is the more important day for China?
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:13:16 GMT
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <1992Oct13.201559.10018@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
> 
> I didn't blame Old Chiang for what he has done, but I hate that he viewed
> himself as democracy for what he has done. Every one can choose what he 
> want to be, but he must be honest. If old Chiag can openly admit he is a 
> dictator and an emperor. I would have nothing to say about him. But, he lied.

	** Democracy means different to different person. To me,
	   it means very little. To Old Chiang, it means what he
	   said. To you it means more. 

	   Understand? The word is NOT well defined.
> 
> It is true that without Old Chiang, Taiwan  won't be the same as she is
> now. But, the real question is will Taiwan be better off or worse ?
> Two possibities, if Taiwan was ruled by Japanese after WWII, Taiwan will be
> close to what Japan is now, or if Taiwan was governed by U.S., Taiwan will
> close to what U.S. is now. Both possibilities are much better off than
> what Taiwan is now.  So, what is the point to thank old Chiang ?

	** First, you are wrong in the two possibilities you mentioned.
	   To be a poor Chink is better than to be a rich Japs or
	   a rich Yankie.

	   Second, you are wrong in not mentioning the third more likely
	   situation.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: kxd5425@usl.edu (Du Kaisheng)
Subject: Re: 9201 people will be more active
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:47:40 GMT

In article <Bw0Hwq.HFu@cs.psu.edu> echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng) writes:
>In article <Bw00Ct.KMn@news.orst.edu> wenz@ucs.orst.edu (Wen Zongyao) writes:
>>
>>There are so many other problems of China, a singal bill is not that 
>>important.  Instead spend your time working on the so-called '9201', try
>>to do something really can help China.  
>
>	I agree on this point.  The signed bill itself is not the primary
>damage to China at this time.  However, the false or biased image of
>China created in the process of lobbying for this bill is.  
>
>	I also agree that now we should concentrate on doing something 
>that really can help China.  One of the things is to try to project
>the true and unbiased image of China today, to present faithfully
>the progress China has made since the tragic days of 1989, both
>economically and politically.  I would like to see everyone here,
>who would either accept or decline the offer this Bill made, now
>to work hard on preserving China's open door policy and Sino-US
>trade, especially in the possible Bill Clinton presidency.
>
>	We can no longer sit around to see the China-bashing and the
>threat to Sino-US trade.
>
>
>    Eddie

I like your proposal.  Green card is not a big problem if someone can  
just give your one or you earn one for yourself. But to mislead the  
public  by portraiting china as a most unhumanitic and most dangerous
place to live on purpose is not good. Our country is not that bad.
Poor does not necessarily mean evil.  I support this proposal because
I believe what Eddie proposed is much better than lobbying the America
to punish China.
From: dh5m@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Donghai  Huangfu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Visa Number for November 1992
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:37:46 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <15OCT199201194740@rigel.tamu.edu> r1n7008@rigel.tamu.edu  writes:
>Does anybody out there happen to know the Visa Number for November 1992?
>I have not seen anything posted in the World Journal so far. Something wrong?
>
>A reponse will be greatly appreciated.
>
>Bob

I was told in INS (Arlington) yesterday that that is April 15, 1991.

BTW, Usually Chinese from mainland got their petition approvement with asking 
to wait, but recently some of us (covered by the Order) got the petition 
approvement without asking to wait.
The visa coordinator of our univ. said it's OK for them to file application,
and she was not very much sure yesterday, but is very much sure today according
some document released update. She said the INS officer who gave us negative
reply yesterday might have not known that yet.
Anybody knows the truth? Please response. Thanks.
From: yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon Yeh)
Subject: it's a technical issue
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Organization: Netix Communications, Inc.
Date: 13 Oct 92 00:28:18 GMT

To convince people on why blood cards are terrible for Chinese in China
is a political issue, but how to knock out the signed blood cards will
be mostly a technical issue.

I urge those blood carders stop attacking me personally--that does not 
prove anything, and does not fix anything.  My 9201 colleagues and I will
treat this project as an engineering project.  just like you guys do your
programming, we will follow whatever available procedure to knock it out.

shannon
-------
From: jialin@dogwood.botany.uga.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: *-*-*-* Yeh Shannon is a spy of CCP government !!! *-*-*
Date: 12 Oct 92 14:39:04 GMT
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens

In article <gretchen.195@yap.las.uiuc.edu> gretchen@yap.las.uiuc.edu writes:
>>gangzhou@sal-sun124.usc.edu (Gang Zhou) writes:
>
>>>He is too stupid to be a spy. He is just mad.
>>>G. Zhou
>
>I just wondering why "he is just mad." From his email address, we can see 
>that he has a job here at U.S (hopefully not in CIA). 

Anyone can own have an acount like that; you can even own your own domain.
My understanding, from Yeh's postings, is that he has lots of connections
with high level CCP officials and his netix.com is bankrolled by CCP.

> Speech Communication Department
> University of Illinois
From: tylee@austin.ibm.com (Ter-Yuan Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Can you find any error here? (Was: Improve your English)
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:12:13 GMT
Organization: IBM
Originator: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com


In article <92281.142219U16788@uicvm.uic.edu>, U16788@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
> :-)   ------>   :-(

No, but I can't find your signature.
-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ter-Yuan Lee                                                              */
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Oct. 1 or Oct. 10, which is the more important day for China?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 23:06:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.213523.13684@odin.corp.sgi.com> yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang) writes:

>What is so great of US?
>What is so great of Japan?

>Maybe in your mind, it is better to be the slave than being your own master.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hmmm.  What is so great of the U. S.?  Because you can be your own
master here rather than the slave?

Under Chiang Kai-shek, there was minimal freedom of speech.  I call
that a form of slavery.
From: LHGCC@CUNYVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Action-9201.appendix
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:05:51 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Mr. Yeh Shannon wrote:
/       Those CSS's point is clear, i.e.:
/
/_\  _|_   / |=|   _|_ _\_  __|__  __\|/__    _|_|_
//|/|--/  /|--|--   |/|--| ___|_/_    | |    |-------|
/ |\|\/    | /|\   /| |       /|=|   /  |      --|--
/ |/ /\    |  |    \|/       / |=| |/   |__|   / | \   ,
/
/_\  _|_   / |=|   _|_ _\_   __|__    |==|   _|_|_   _|_/ _\_
//|/|--/  /|--|--   |/|--|  ___|_/_  -----  _|=|=|-  // | -|-
/ |\|\/    | /|\   /| |        /|=|   /|--     /\   //_\| -|-
/ |/ /\    |  |    \|/        / |=|  /\|___   /  \      |__|__  .
/
/
/shannon
 Obviously he is against these two points. Neither am I. To be protected
 IS NOT a heroic deed. The question is, more important, why should
 those Chinese Nationals be protected by a foreign country? When
 Americans were hold hostages in Iran, US marines were sent to
rescue them. Even Old Bush was involved in so-call Iran-Contra.
Also did Ross Perot, who tried to rescue his employees in Iran.
That are HEROIC deeds. Why should not CG come out to protect her
citizens here? Why should US, Canada step out to protect them
for CG? Is that ridiculous? No! because the CG kills its OWN
PEOPLE. Indiscriminately. You can not laugh at those potential
victims. It is the shame of CG, no one else.  When a Chinese
 National goes back to his/her VERY OWN homeland, he/she needs to be
 tested for HIV virus. Why? simply because he/she does not have a
 foreign residency card(Green Card). If he/she has, he/she can go
 through without ANY TROUBLE. That is discriminative. You could
 put that message into this form:" Chinese Nationals Should be
 Tested (Including Dogs) at the Border". No other country does that
 to their VERY OWN people. So one does need a GREEN CARD to PROTECT
 himself/herself's diginity to be tested for HIV.
Lynn
From: IO10399@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: first time
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:56:53 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

this is just try