HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: b_lmcgilve@cpvax.cpses.tu.com
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: More weed woes
Date: 8 Oct 92 08:39:56 CDT
Organization: Texas Utilities, Glen Rose TX 

In article <1992Oct7.154848.11595@news.duc.auburn.edu>, bailebn@mail.auburn.edu (Bliss Bailey) writes:
> Thistles are only a minor problem in our pasture, but mowing and other
> "mechanical" means have gotten them under control pretty nicely.  
> Our major problem is with briars (i.e. - Blackberry Brambles).  
> These do not seem to respond to mowing at all, and I am just about
> ready to resort to spot-spraying RoundUp.  However, I thought 
> that I would get a little feedback from "misc.rural" before I 
> took that step.  
> 
> I am open to the use of chemicals, but will take an extremely 
> judicious approach, if I do go that route.  I would prefer to use
> some sort of non-chemical means.  Any Ideas?
> 
I used goats to get rid of the thorn brush.  Worked pretty well although
they also ate the flowers and my garden and the decorative bushes around
the front and the leaves off the fruit trees.  But they did eat all of the
leaves from the thorny brush.  Seemed to like them best.  Stems are still
there but don't seem to be thriving.

While ya'll are at it, what can I do about the poison oak/ivy?  I have a
creek running through the land so RoundUp or other chemicals is not an option 
in several places.  Can I burn it off successfully?  I found out the hard way 
this summer that any old immunity was long gone.  Mowing won't work, the stuff
isn't that high.  Though the mowing did work pretty well on a lot of the
other weeds in the horse pasture.  Also helped the bluebonnets by taking out
some of the competing weeds.  (I don't mow until after bluebonnet season).

-- 
Laurel McGilvery		Not only do I not speak for the company,
CPSES (temporarily)		the company does not speak for me. 

All opinions expressed are obviously mine.  Who else would own up to them?
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Goats and poison oak (was:More weed woes)
From: C.K.Black@massey.ac.nz (C.K. Black)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 00:51:10 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
Keywords: milk is safe
Summary: Goats milk and poison oak
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

G'day all,
     In Message-ID: <PAB.92Oct9093450@challenger.lucid.com>,  pab@lucid.com,
 (Peter Benson)  writes;

>I've heard of using goats to help get rid of poison ivy.  There is still the
>problem of how to handle them (and what to do with their milk) after
>they've been in PI.

The U. of California has published some interesting results in California
Agriculture, vol.46, #3, May-June 1992.  Kouakou et al., found that goats
eating poison oak  (Toxicodendron diversilobum)  largely metabolized the
contact poisons (urushiols) so that there were none present in the milk.
They MAY be able to do the same with poison ivy  (T. radicans), but you
certainly are right,  how (and why) would you handle a goat that has spent
the day snacking on poison ivy?  8^)
Cheers...........
-- 
Conrad Black 

Email... C.K.Black@massey.ac.nz
Snail... Massey U., Plant Sc. Dept., Palmerston North, New Zealand
From: system@coldbox.cojones.com (Bryan Lockwood)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Rural Life?
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 13:10:10 PDT
Organization: The Generation Gap

ag301@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tricia Schmidt) writes:

> 
> Well, it's a long story, but somehow I've ended up in the country
> for three months to see if I could stand living this way.  So far
> I'm 50/50 on it - and I'm hoping some of the more experienced rural
> people can help me out with some problems.
> 
> 1)  There are no city services - which means that no nice people 

> 2)  There are no city services here - which means our water comes

> 3)  There are no city laws here.  Which means that people can wander

> Any help anyone can offer on these questions will be greatly 
> appreciated.  The best help would be if about a million or so people
> moved in around here and turned it into a city though :)  I never
> realized how much I depended on City Services.  One time the well
> stopped running, and to my surprise no city services people came
> rushing out to help us.  We had to wait until the next day when
> the well repair person came.  

Don't you find this somewhat invigorating? Don't you *like* knowing that you
are a bit farther away from the system, which might aggravate some of your
problems just as easily as it fixes others?

Being out and away from the strict system of legality (a penalty for every
possible crime) seems to cause most people to rely more in their own inner
definitions of what's right and wrong, rather than getting their direction
from the externally-imposed ordinances and laws of a formalized city legal
system. You tend to find a bit more basic honesty in rural situations, I
think. You deal with *people* every day, rather than the System with all of
its loopholes and ambiguities. People will treat you as a person, rather than
as a moving blob from which to turn a profit.

And while you may sometimes miss the City Services who keep your sewer from
backing up and your water running, you do know that you are now actually in
control of these utilities. You don't need to worry about the possibilty of a
city worker being lazy about locating water lines, and granting some
contractor a permit to drill into your main, keeping you without water for
weeks while the damage is repaired and everyone attempts to pin the liability
on someone else. If a problem does crop up, you'll most likely *know* who's
liable.



Bryan Lockwood             |  "This is the Nineties, Bubba, and there
system@cojones.com         |   is no such thing as Paranoia. It's all True."
1@501 (WWIVnet)            |   (Hunter S. Thompson)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bailebn@mail.auburn.edu (Bliss Bailey)
Subject: More weed woes
Keywords: thistles, briars, blackberries, weeds
Reply-To: bailebn@mail.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:48:48 GMT

Thistles are only a minor problem in our pasture, but mowing and other
"mechanical" means have gotten them under control pretty nicely.  
Our major problem is with briars (i.e. - Blackberry Brambles).  
These do not seem to respond to mowing at all, and I am just about
ready to resort to spot-spraying RoundUp.  However, I thought 
that I would get a little feedback from "misc.rural" before I 
took that step.  

I am open to the use of chemicals, but will take an extremely 
judicious approach, if I do go that route.  I would prefer to use
some sort of non-chemical means.  Any Ideas?

Bliss Bailey
Network Support Specialist
Auburn University, AL
bailebn@mail.auburn.edu
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu ( Hari Seldon ... psychohistorian )
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: More weed woes
Keywords: thistles, briars, blackberries, weeds
Date: 14 Oct 92 05:23:04 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

In <1992Oct7.154848.11595@news.duc.auburn.edu> bailebn@mail.auburn.edu (Bliss Bailey) writes:

>Thistles are only a minor problem in our pasture, but mowing and other
>"mechanical" means have gotten them under control pretty nicely.  
>Our major problem is with briars (i.e. - Blackberry Brambles).  
>These do not seem to respond to mowing at all, and I am just about

>some sort of non-chemical means.  Any Ideas?

well just how large of an area are we talking about here?
just a we bit more discription of the problem would help.

bill pociengel
--
llbi locgeenpi " i'm a little confused right now"
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: knightf@infonode.ingr.com (Frank Knight)
Subject: Re: Slow drains (was Re: Rural Life?)
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:31:32 GMT

In article <mwFosB4w164w@coldbox.cojones.com> system@coldbox.cojones.com (Bryan Lockwood) writes:
>>Maybe y'all can help me. We've had this house for almost a year and have
>>a problem. It has a septic tank and a well. The problem is a slow drain.
>>The basement laundry sink, into which the washer drains, drains too slow
>>causing periodic floods. My wife tried "Drano"type products before I had
>>a chance to stop her but it did not fix the problem. I have tried to use
>>a "snake" too. Thought we had it licked, but it flooded again yesterday.
>>What can I use that won't harm the septic tank but will fix it for good?
>>Or can I even fix it for good? Any suggestions will be appreciated!
>
>This is a long shot, but you might want to check your vent pipes. If you
>don't have a good vent, well, things just don't work right. So, you not only
>want to snake DOWN the drain, but UP the vent.
>
You might also check if your laundry drain is actually connected to
the septic tank.  It is most common for them not to be so that the      
detergents do not kill the tank bacteria.  It may be connected to
a trap in the yard away from the tank.  I don't remember the brand
but they carry it at Lowe's and other stores of the bacterial
drain/trap cleaner that is different than the septic mix the
same company makes.  Very good stuff, they also bottle a root killer     
treatment. All of this company's product seems to sell for about
$7 a quart.

Frank
From: luden@lehigh.edu (Dean E. Nelson)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Aquaculture
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:02:50 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University Computing Center

I am interested in starting up a small tank or pond to raise some fish.  
Does anyone know a good source of information?  I am ignorant of all of the 
basics past the fact that fish need water.  I am interested in finding out 
what species are good, how big does the tank need to be, what kind of 
filtering system is needed, are there alternative methods of containment, 
what sources for equipment and stock are there, etc.? 

We raise rabbits and earthworms eat the manure.  
I constructed some worm beds outside the rabbitry and have been able to give 
the worms a better environment and they are doing *really* well.  Now, I am 
wondering what to do with all the worms, hence the fish idea.  We don't have 
enough land for a good sized pond, but hope to someday, and in the meantime 
would like to get a little experience.

Any help would be appreciated.

Dean Nelson den0@lehigh.edu
From: hank@well.sf.ca.us (Hank Roberts)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:50:55 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

In <1binjtINN9jg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:

>At the risk of getting a bit too graphic: tilapia can thrive on
>manure alone as a feed, although I cannot remember which manure
>is most suitable for this, I think pig manure is used in 
>Malaysia and works quite well.
One caution: it appears that one reservoir for 'asian flu' is these sorts
of ponds, where the virus can pass among pigs, people and waterfowl every
year.  I vaguely recall a long article, perhaps in Sci. American or New
Scientist.  It's always complicated -- one defining fact about any ecology.
From: langston@langston.cs.utk.edu (Mike Langston)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: the end of civilization (a bit long) was Re: proposed increase in inher
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:37:12 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Tennessee
Distribution: world
Reply-To: langston@langston.cs.utk.edu (Mike Langston)
NNTP-Posting-Host: langston.cs.utk.edu

mike romano writes:

> Bill Pociengel writes 
>> what i thought .... was that you were one of
>> those folk who jumps in here periodically spouting
>> off some wild crap and then wonders why they 
>> get picked on. re see the past thread on weedeaters
>> and greenhouses.
> That sure sounds like a reference to myself.  I started
> the discussion on weedeaters which went on for quite some
> time, pro and con and I quite enjoyed the debate.

debate?  was that what that was? -- i thought you were playing 
the role of a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest -- i
don't always agree with bill, but i think he phrased it well
when he said you were "spouting off some wild crap" 

> I also suggested some wild ideas about greenhouses and
> large domes such as Biosphere 2 could be set up in
> northern climates, again it was a great debate.

debate?  was that what that was?  etc etc etc

IMHO we've had enough wild crap here lately, including not just
weedeaters and greenhouses, but also herbicides and life-styles -- 
and to think that misc.rural was once a much quieter place...

-- 
mike langston <langston@cs.utk.edu>
department of computer science, university of tennessee
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: ett@alfred.carleton.ca (E. Todd Taylor)
Subject: BUTTERNUTS everywhere - now what?
Keywords: First crop, uses
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:01:37 GMT

My dad's butternut trees finally produced a reasonable batch of butternuts 
after almost 15 years of waiting.  He's really happy about this, but has
no idea what to do with the yield.  Does anyone know if there is some 
practical use for them or have any recipes?

advTHXance...Todd
-- 
Carleton University                          E-mail: todd_taylor@carleton.ca 
Dept. of Physical Plant                      Office:(613) 788-2600 x8557
Ottawa, ON K1S 5B6                              Fax:(613) 788-4383
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Cresote Source ?
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:31:30 GMT
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Oct6.191733.18685@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> tfisher@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Tom Fisher) writes:

>My father-in-law (he was a maintainer on a railroad for 30+ yrs)
>burned used railroad ties (creosote treated) in an open fireplace
>in his home for many, many years.  I don't recall anyone in his
>family being adversely affected.  I also don't recall ever seeing
>any termites around his house :-)

How about outside the house?

He just had to make sure his fireplace had a good draw and that the
fire was hot...  Besides, old railway ties have already leached much
of their creosote into the ground.

In part, creosote is produced by the destructive distillation of wood,
so burning it isn't *that* bad - it would complete the decomposition.
If your fire is good and hot.  However, it would be like burning pine
or cedar in your fireplace - very rapid chimney buildup.  Plus handling
problems.  Plus breathing the sawdust when cutting it into small enough
pieces.

The hazards of creosote are well established.  Individual anecdotal
stories are about as useful as saying "cigarette smoking doesn't
harm you because my grandfather smoked and lived into his 90's".
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: london@calypso.uucp (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Thistles
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:31:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.192036.22146@infonode.ingr.com> knightf@infonode.ingr.com (Frank Knight) writes:
>Well thankyou Darrin, for setting everone straight.  Now if you'd
>only not shout so much ;-), well must go now, off to spray
>some more Round-Up (tm) to knock out this rain forest growing
>im my pasture.

Don't forget to wear your toxic spray protective mask.
From: mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike Burr)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Thistles, and Weeds in General
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:12:51 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <D2150035.fts62h@outpost.SF-Bay.org> peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org (Michael Peirce) writes:
>
>Also, a number of birds love thistle seeds.  

Yes, Goldfinches come to mind...
Also, it's an important plant for a lot of butterflys.

>Thistles aren't all bad.

Amen... One man's "weed" is another creatures home, food, etc. - save
some for the wildlife.


Michael Burr   mnb@voodoo.boeing.com  | Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA
-- 
Michael Burr   mnb@voodoo.boeing.com  | Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA
From: system@coldbox.cojones.com (Bryan Lockwood)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Slow drains (was Re: Rural Life?)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 00:25:09 PDT
Organization: The Generation Gap

>Maybe y'all can help me. We've had this house for almost a year and have
>a problem. It has a septic tank and a well. The problem is a slow drain.
>The basement laundry sink, into which the washer drains, drains too slow
>causing periodic floods. My wife tried "Drano"type products before I had
>a chance to stop her but it did not fix the problem. I have tried to use
>a "snake" too. Thought we had it licked, but it flooded again yesterday.
>What can I use that won't harm the septic tank but will fix it for good?
>Or can I even fix it for good? Any suggestions will be appreciated!

This is a long shot, but you might want to check your vent pipes. If you
don't have a good vent, well, things just don't work right. So, you not only
want to snake DOWN the drain, but UP the vent.

What could clog up your vent? Where I live it's usually ice that does it, but
I suppose in some places leaves could do it.

(I remember leaves... those things that grow on trees. We don't have any
trees here in the Arctic!) 


Bryan Lockwood             |  "This is the Nineties, Bubba, and there
system@cojones.com         |   is no such thing as Paranoia. It's all True."
1@501 (WWIVnet)            |   (Hunter S. Thompson)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: kaufman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman)
Subject: Re: FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES For The Farm
Reply-To: kaufman@CS.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 14 Oct 92 04:20:21 GMT

mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

>          

>                      FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES For The Farm
>          
...
>                                   Robert E. McElwaine
>                                   B.S., Physics, UW-EC

The BS part I understand.  What does "Physics" mean?

-- 
Marc Kaufman (kaufman@CS.Stanford.EDU)
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon...psychohistorian)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: creosote(again)
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:20:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Minnesota

In <1992Oct14.224141.4799@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jwg2y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Warner Granade) writes:

>OK, folks, you've got me worried.  I did my
>semi-annual chimney cleaning and took out a
>bucket-full of creosote.  Now, how do I dispose
>of it.  I've always just dumped it out in my
>ash pile (which I sometimes throw on the manure

creosote is a liquid. what you probably have is creosote
impregnated ash.

>spreader).  If creosote is toxic, how do I dispose 
>of it? (anyone want to buy it?).  BTW, how do
>different folks clean chimneys?  I just get up on
>the roof and brush it good from the top and then
>take my stove pipe off and empty the cleanout.
>Any tips would be appreciated

well i usually leave it to the sweep to clean it.
i do, tho, run periodic 'hot' fires to reduce the volume
of creosote and creosote impregnated ash in the chiminey.
i also make sure, mostly, to start my fires hot (to warm the 
stack) prior to normal use. this also reduces the amount of 
buildup on the inside of the chimney.

bill pociengel 
--
llbi locgeenpi " i'm a little confused right now"
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: Jeffrey C Honig <jch@nr-tech.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Fencing questions
Nntp-Posting-User: @cornell.edu
Organization: Information Technologies/Network Resources; Cornell University;
	Ithaca, NY USA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:35:53 GMT

Can anyone recommend any good books on fencing?  Our current project
is chain link for the dogs but in the next year or so we also plan on
installing some wooden fencing in front of the house and field fence
for livestock.

Does anyone have a Premier Fencing catalog?  I hear they have a very
informative catalog.

Has anyone installed chain link fencing with post anchors instead of
concrete footings?  Anchors are an option I just learned of and am
wondering how they compare.

Thanks!

Jeff
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: wild crap (was Re: the end of civilization)
Date: 16 Oct 1992 23:55:00 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


No more wild crap for me on this newsgroup.
  got up this morning, thunked the log cabin with my trusty
fence post walking cane, went out hunted a moose, came back
opened a six pack, hope everybody out there is rural land
is just like me.

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Thistles, and Weeds in General
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 13 Oct 92 07:06:12 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <D2150035.fts62h@outpost.SF-Bay.org>, peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org (Michael Peirce) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Oct9.190317.26147@nas.nasa.gov> (misc.rural), ktk@capybara.nas.nasa.gov (Katy T. Kislitzin) writes:
>> I discovered, quite by accident, that thistles are the national flower of 
>> Scotland.
> 
> Also, a number of birds love thistle seeds.  
> 
> 
> Thistles aren't all bad.
> 

I always leave a few of them around.  The Goldfinches use the fluff to
make their nests.

Sue

> --  Michael Peirce      --   peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org
> --  Peirce Software     --   Suite 301, 719 Hibiscus Place
> --                      --   San Jose, California USA 95117
> --  Makers of...        --   voice: (408) 244-6554 fax: (408) 244-6882
> --            SMOOTHIE  --   AppleLink: peirce & America Online: AFC Peirce
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: karcher@jevex.waisman.wisc.edu
Subject: RE: Building in a flood plain...
Organization: Waisman Center, University of Wisconsin-Madison
Date: 13 OCT 92 10:39:45 CDT

In a previous article, mvm@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (michael.v.murphy) wrote:
>     I recently purchased some land that is in Indiana's one hundred year 
>flood plane. The county in which the land is located has approved the building
>of a residence on the sight with some restrictions (no basement). The land was
>so cheap for this area ($9000 for 5 acres), that I bought it with little
>investigation into the consequences of building in a flood plain. In starting
>to look into building a home there, I thought that I might tap into the net 
>wisdom on the subject. Any advice/suggestions/horror stories on the subject
>would be appreciated (I will need a well/cistern and septic system).
> 
The type of soil could determine if you can have a septic system at all.
It will also determine how much it will cost to ensure a stable foundation.
I'd recommend first getting a "perc" test to see if you would be approved for a
septic system. If so then contact a soils engineering company (not a builder)
to have soil borings done at the four corners where you want the house to find
out if it's suitable to support a foundation. They will give you
recommendations on how the soil should be prepared for construction (or if it's
even feasible to build on). Such a test could be $1-2K and can be extremely
valuable even if your not building in a flood plane. Not knowing the soil
conditions could mean your house collapses. 


Carl Karcher                          Internet: KARCHER@WAISMAN.WISC.EDU
Waisman Center                        Bitnet:   KARCHER@WISCMACC
University of Wisconsin-Madison       PSTnet:   (608) 263-5896
Newsgroups: misc.rural