HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: AS.KCC@forsythe.stanford.edu (Keith Chinn)
Subject: sentimentality
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:40:06 GMT

With all the sad/horror stories on the bulletin I thought it might
be a nice change to relay the story of my own horse's retirement.

I purchased my first and so far only horse about 9 years ago when
he was 13 years old.  I was his 4th or 5th owner and the
mistreatment somewhere along the line was clearly evident.  He had
horrible ground manners (head swinging and teeth gnashing) and not
what I would call a pleasant disposition but was extremely well
schooled in dressage through 3rd level.  Since I was thoroughly
green when we started out you can imagine that through the years,
especially early on, we had our share of ups and downs, testing of
wills, you name it...but in the end he'd always proven himself to
be an unfailingly kind (under saddle) and generous steed despite my
bumbling attempts and occasional misjudgment.

Some time ago and for a host of reasons it became clear that I
couldn't continue riding him.  At about 20 he was still very
sound and healthy so what was I to do with him?  I could have sold
him I suppose but I couldn't deal with the uncertainty of his future.
Someone suggested donating him to a university riding program
as a school horse for a tax write-off but hadn't he already suffered
enough years of insensitive hands and bouncing bodies on his back?
Leasing didn't seem like a viable option because I just couldn't
afford to spend all the time and effort keeping track of possibly
short term leases and multiple lessees.  The few commercial pastures
available for turnout were either hours away, hard and rutted,
hilly to the point of being dangerous or something just not right.

Well, after much searching (soul and otherwise) early this year I
found through a friend the ideal situation for the beast.  He now
lives on a picturesque piece of privately owned property a stones
throw away from the owner's home.  There's a small barn with two
stalls which opens onto an acre of pasture (at least in the spring --
it's dry in California!) with shade trees and a wonderful view of a
lake from one corner.  This must be heaven for him having lived
most of his life in a 10x10 foot stall, sometimes with paddock but
most times without.  And it's 10 minutes away from my office
and 20 minutes from my home!  The owner really spoils the horses
(mine and her gelding) with lots of attention and treats.  An
example in the treat department is daily she gives "the boys" their
"salad" of fruits and vegetables such as lettuce, fresh corn,
carrots, and apples.

I can't tell you how nice it is to see my pony ambling across the
field with his floppy ears of contentment.  I feel gratified in
knowing that I can give him back at least a few good years for all
that he's given me.

Keith and Kindred Spirit
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Animal rights bashing
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:33:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture


tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman) writes:
] A group of people in Arizona has been trying for years to ban the leg-hold
] trap for several very good reasons ... the groups fighting this measure
] including the NRA and various other hunting and fishing organizations have
] labelled this measure as an "Animal Rights Extremist" measure in
] an attempt to defeat it, despite that it has written into it specifically
] that hunting and fishing are to be protected.

The proposition as drafted says that game populations must be
"managed by nonlethal means". How is that going to be done ?
Distribute free condoms to the bucks ? How is hunting going
to be allowed given such a requirement.

Prop. 200 may have started as a good idea, but it's been broadened by
animal rights extremist and radical vegitarians to the point of lunacy.
It's poorly written, expensive to implement and a ecological disaster.
If all they wanted to do was ban leg-hold trasp, why didn't they just
say so ? What's their REAL agenda, I wonder ?

And why are the gun-banning proponents are supporting Prop. 200, too...
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: mlr21@cas.org (Mary Lee Raines)
Subject: Re: Letting loose
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:02:59 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.132424.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz>, corich_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
|> In article <1992Oct12.192726.23159@ms.uky.edu>, dahead00@nx28.mik.uky.edu (Zippidy Do Dah) writes:
|> > In article <seqLmbO00iV3A1_78k@andrew.cmu.edu>  writes:
|> >> Well we finally gave it a shot at letting Strawberry loose.  
|> > (stuff deleted)
|> > 
stuff deleted
|> > Anyway my short comments on turning out.  Maybe I have alot of old  
|> > hardbooter in me but I am a firm beliver in keeping a horse outside as  
|> > opposed to inside.  Unless you are training it is best to keep your horses  
|> > together out in the feild to keep them mentally and physically healthy.   
|> > Most horse are very social and need to be near but not on top of each  
|> > other and in the elements.  
|> (STUFF DELETED)
|> 
|> Down here in New Zealand the majority of our horses are kept
|> outside..permanently.
|> 
|> In winter we rug them up and feed them more.
|> 
|> Apparently thats why NZ thoroughbreds do so well in cross-country eventing.
|> Because they are born and develop outside they are hardy and tough.
|> 
|> PS With working full time I don't think I would have time for a stabled horse..
|> how do all you full time workers manage it?
|> 
|> Alison, Wellington, New Zealand

Working full time and having four horses, I don't do much else :^)

Actually, my horses aren't stabled all the time.  It depends on the season,
age, who's getting how much grain, who's getting shown, etc. 
If I didn't
have a yearling filly, my horses would pretty much be on 24-hour turnout
right now, but the filly gets a lot more grain than the grown horses,
so I bring them in at night, hay and grain them at night and in the morning, 
get ready for work, then turn them out in a three-acre field (where they have a 
run-in that's approximately 12 x 50').  (And toss them more hay.)

In early summer, the process is reversed, I bring them in in the morning and
feed them, then feed them when I get home from work, and then turn them out
all night so they don't get sunburned coats (and I don't have to use quite
as much fly spray).  

It's a matter of balance.  If I think the filly isn't getting enough
exercise (with only 12 hours of turnout a day), then I just bring
her in to feed (and feed the others outside), then turn her back out
when she's done so that she's only in the stall for breakfast and
dinner.  (She's getting about three times what the grown horses are
getting, and she's a slow eater, and she's bottom horse on the totem
pole, so she has to be separated from them to get her share of grain.) 

If I had more land, the horses would be on 24-hour turnout now, with
the nine-year-old and the four-year-old in one field and the
two-year-old and the yearling in another because their nutritional
needs are closer (except that the yearling likes the four-year-old best).  

Mary Lee Raines
Ravenswood Appaloosas


Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson)
Subject: Re: 8 Re: sentementality
Keywords: Breeding Lame Horses
Organization: Flight Transportation Associates, Cambridge, MA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:33:51 GMT

Why would anyone in their right mind want to use an unsound horse for
*breeding* purposes??  I've often read that "Oh, if the horse breaks
down we can always use him/her for breeding" and it makes absolutely
no sense to me, since the aim of breeding should be to produce *sound*
servicable horses, not promote a flawed line.  Unless the unsoundness
is definitely not hereditary (and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't
believe vets have proved everything that is and is not hereditary yet)
why would one breed a horse that obviously has soundness problems?
I'm not trying to start a flame war, I don't know much about the specifics
of breeding, but this has always puzzled me.

Karen Karlssonn
--
----
Karen Karlsson on Joakim Karlsson's account
aviator@athena.mit.edu
----
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: mary@cairo.watson.ibm.com (Mary McHugh)
Subject: Re: Body clipper advice needed
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 14:27:51 GMT
Reply-To: mary@cairo.watson.ibm.com (Mary McHugh)
Organization: IBM TJ Watson Home for Tired Hackers

In article <1992Oct14.195356.8793@ulysses.att.com>,
grass@ulysses.att.com (Judith Grass) writes: 
|> I can give you an anti-recommendation....   If you can find *** anything ***
|> OTHER than the Oster/Sunbeam large animal clippers, it would be worth
|> trying them.  And I wouldn't even ask about the price.
Well, I have several friends (including my trainer) who use the
Oster/Sunbeam/Stewart 510 or 610 clippers and ALL have had NO trouble
with them!  In fact, both my trainer and one of my friends have clipping
businesses where they will clip your horse for you ... so they give
their clippers plenty of use.  My own experience with Oster has been
very good as well.  In fact, I mentioned in my previous post that I
clipped my big horse with the Oster A-5 clippers -- they are NOT
intended for body clipping, yet they performed admirably(it was slow
going though because the blades are not wide - although you can buy
wider blades for the A-5).  I have clipped about 5 horses with the A-5s
and they are still going strong.  I bought the 610 clipper to have the
RIGHT tool for the job and they didn't disappoint me.  I will agree that
the switch seems a little cheap but I have not had any trouble with it. 

|> Second clipping peeve:  Why is it I send my blades to be sharpened,
|> for about $30 bucks a set, and they always come back duller than they
|> went out... so dull they do not cut, period?  
|> 
|> Grrrrrr....

We have found that new blades at best clip 2 horses, sharpened ones last
1 clipping if you are lucky.  If you are paying $30 a set for sharpening
you might just as well throw the blades away and buy a new set each
time.  You can buy replacement blades through R.C. Steele for $9.42 for
top blades and $12.44 for bottom blades -- again -- the only catch is
that you have to have a minimum order of $50. 
 
|> 
|> 		-- Judy Grass

I guess the moral of the story is that just like cars, some people get
stuck with lemons, others have good luck with the same model.

ANYWAY,  as promised, I have the numbers for Dover & R.C. Steele:

R.C. Steele:  1-800-872-3773   In the Holiday 1992 catalog p.36:

Oster/Stewart #510 Clippers
          (3000 cutting strokes/min):  $144.90 (Catalog # S05-0540)
Oster/Steward #EW610 Clippers
          (variable speed 700-3000 s/m):  $155.70 (Catalog #S05-0539)
Replacement blades for above:  Top  $9.42 (Catalog #S05-0542)
                               Bottom $12.44 (Catalog #S05-0543)

Dover Saddlery:  1-800-989-1500  In the Fall/Winter 1992 catalog p. 34:
O/S #510:  $158.90  (Catalog #34C)
O/S #EW-610: $167.80  (Catalog #34D) 

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: Impressive syndrome
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:22:33 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.161417.23665@u.washington.edu>,
cbrand@cac.washington.edu (Carol Brand) writes:
>Did anyone else see the article in the New York Times (Oct 6, Science
>section) about the genetic disorder that affects quarter horses?  The
>article describes a condition that causes horses to go into spasms after
>workouts or after ingesting food that contains high levels of potassium.
>These spasm range from mild to fatal.
>
>According to the article, the disorder is caused by a genetic mutation
>that is linked to a single stallion.  The NYT wouldn't mention his name
>for fear of law suits, but I'm pretty sure that the stallion is
>Impressive.


I don't have any knowledge of this disorder, or the ramifications on
the breeding business, but I just want to say that you had better be
DARN sure about this before you spread this kind of information. If
it's true, fine, but if you have the wrong horse, you could ruin his
career as a stallion and his owner's business as well.

I only say this because it would be a shame to wrongly accuse
someone of this type of breach of trust. How do you know this? What
evidence do you have? "I'm pretty sure" is dangerous, and if it
proved to be incorrect and they lost a lot of business because of
it, they could certainly sue you for libel.

This is meant as no flame. I just wanted to point out the potential
problem unless you have hard and fast evidence.

=gwyn
From: jamesf@myranch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jim Ferris x34041)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Truck recomendations wanted
Date: 16 Oct 1992 14:36:47 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jamesf@myranch.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: myranch.ebay.sun.com

In article 1541@npdiss1.StPaul.NCR.COM, frv@npdiss1.StPaul.NCR.COM (Frank Vaughn) writes:
>I am currently looking for a truck to pull horse trailers with. The trailer I
>now have is a 4 horse custom w/ 6 ft dressing room, 24 foot long, bumper
>pull, and is VERY heavy. It is possible I will be going to a 6 horse in the 
>future, so must take this into account also.
>
>Candidates:
>
>        Dodge 350 w/ cummins - from what I hear this is the truck of choice,
>                                however Dodge does not make a crew cab which
>                                would be very nice to have.
>
>        Ford 350 w/ ? - This seems to be the second choice and does have a
>                        crew cab option, but I don't know about the engines.
>                        Does Ford have a good diesel(not a converted gas)?
>
>General:
>
>        I am leaning towards a 5 speed manual trans. as I have never
>        trusted the automatics.
>
>        What is the general opinion on when you must go to dual wheels?
>
>Any advice, comments, experiences, would be greatly appreciated. Thank You.
>
>               Frank Vaughn 
>-- 


I know a number of people that have the Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel and they are very
pleased with it, except that it does have body problems that show up after time.
I dont know what type of problems.  A beware here is that Ford has bought the Cummins
company and, at some time in the future (I have heard with 1994 models), Dodge will
no longer be able to deliver (?maintain?) the Cummins engine.   I would suppose at
that time Ford will probably offer it.
	I personally have a 1990 Ford F350 5 speed with 4.10 rear-end, trailering
options, International Navstar 7.3l diesel (standard Ford diesel right now), with
73,000+ miles and have had very few problems, nothing major, and am extremely pleased
with it. I get ~ 16-17 mpg around town (Freeways not towing) and from 12-15 towing
a 3horse Logan bumper pull with a very heavy (read old and clunky) cabover camper.
Oh BTW, it is a super cab dually, and for towing stability, nothing beats the
dual rear wheels option, IMHO.  The International diesel is a real diesel, not
a converted gas engine.

Jim Ferris (email address next week changes to  jferris@cwa.com)
From: hannah@pomponio.ai.sri.com (Marsha Jo Hannah)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: STOP IT!!!
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:23:33 GMT
	<ldlujcINNitu@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
	<1992Oct13.202555.21654@cascade.Stanford.EDU>
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
In-reply-to: king@glacier.Stanford.EDU's message of 13 Oct 92 20:25:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.202555.21654@cascade.Stanford.EDU> king@glacier.Stanford.EDU (Robin King) writes:

	   I'm interested in all topics equestrian: slaughterhouse
	   info, animal rights groups as they affect horse ownership,
	   horse morphology/anthropology, etc.  These are all pertinent 
	   to knowing about horses.  Leg aids and Avon Skin-So-Soft 
	   are also pertinent.  

	   Let's not limit our topics unnecessarily by being unable
	   to deal with controversial subjects.  Flames and uppity 
	   attitudes are detrimental to the sharing of knowledge.

	   Robin King
	   king@glacier.stanford.edu

I am of the opinion that it would be nice if the postings to
rec.equestrian at least contained the word "horse" somewhere.  A lot
of the recent traffic has been pretty tangential to the subject.
And, IMHO, most of the heat belongs offline.

Marsha Jo Hannah		Murphy must have been a horseman--
La Honda, CA			anything that can go wrong, will!
From: lcasey@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: horse related injuries
Date: 16 Oct 92 10:37:15 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

Does having nose and both cheekbones broken at the same time by an idiot
ex-racehorse count as *3*?  Last fall when I was prego, my mare stepped
on my little toe and broke it.  Of course, a week later her son stepped
on the other one and broke it.  It took *forever* for those toes to heal!

Leigh 
From: kyle@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Kyle Karnosh)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:24:31 GMT
Subject: Re: recommendation of Grooma products
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian


Well, I haven't used the face Grooma but our horses sure love the
regular Grooma. If I go out into a pasture with one, they practically
fight over who gets to be groomed first. I'll never buy another
rubber curry again, there's just no comparison.

Just my $2


Kyle Karnosh
Con Brio Farms
Quality Warmblood Sporthorses
Gilroy, CA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: manacsa@l13ff.jsc.nasa.gov (Gerry Manacsa)
Subject: Wanted: used Keiffer Rheine
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:36:46 GMT

A friend without write access is looking for a used 17-1/2 or 
(preferably) 18 inch Keiffer Rheine.  If you have one for sale, 
please send E-mail to:

beckman@cs.nyu.edu

=====================================================================
Gerry Manacsa
Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Company
---------------------------------------------------------------------
These are my opinions... nothing to do with my company or anyone else
                            et cetera
=====================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: montyb@alpha.aosg.gsf.dec.com (Monty C. Brandenberg)
Subject: re: human evolution (was: slaughterhouses)
Organization: AOSG
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 20:32:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.224345.13636@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman) writes:
|> In an article in rec.equestrian doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
|> writes:
|> 
|> >Human beings evolved eating meat, just like wolves, tigers, bears, 
|> >and a bunch of other animals. 
|> 
|> 	Actually this is incorrect.  I learned about this studying for my
|> B.S. degree in Biology.  Humans evolved eating nuts, berries, grains,
|> fruits, vegetables, and raw fish.  [etc.]

Tracy

This and the animal rights vs animal welfare thread suggest that you should
be a little more attentive to language.  Dennis made an anthropological statement
('Humans evolved eating meat') that is correct; hunting predates the appearance
of Homo Sapiens Sapiens.  You replied with a morphological statement, basically
that man is not well-suited to meat eating, that, while correct, isn't a logical
refutation of Dennis' statement.  Sloppy reasoning isn't going to impress those
you try to sway...

						Monty
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: kcarroll@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Chronic Sporadic Lameness Revisited
Keywords: ring bone again
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:50:49 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.141242.4327@piston.detroit.ingr.com>  
ferricpl@piston.detroit.ingr.com (Pat Ferrick) writes:
> I talked to him this morning and we discovered that he has a very slight case  
> of 3 things: ringbone, arthritic changes to
> both the coffin and navicular bones. But, in combination, could result in the
> sporadic slight lameness we've been experiencing. T

could we start a discussion of Appys and ring bone - more prone than others?
also in depth definition of ring bone including wives tales?
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: ring@inf.fu-berlin.de (Rod J. Ring)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Slaughter Houses
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:28:57 GMT
Organization: Free University of Berlin, Germany, Computer Science

In article <DOCONNOR.92Oct9110808@potato.sedona.intel.com>,
doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
> 
> Human beings evolved eating meat, just like wolves, tigers, bears, 
> and a bunch of other animals. When you are dead, little animals will
> eat you. It's part of the cycle of life, as natural as breathing.
>
I don't object to human beings eating non-human beings.  What I hate
is a) the way the meat to be eaten is usually produced nowadays and
b) the usual consumer's approach to the whole thing (he wants good
quality and a good price) --> animals being treated just like any
other industrial product.
There can be a lot of *dignity*, though, in (e.g.) a jungle tribesman's
hunting down an animal and killing it in order for him and his fellows
to survive.  Or also my grandparents' (who owned the farm where I grew
up) killings of their chickens.  They didn't do that for the *fun* of
a good meal, but for its nutritious (?) value.

But I'm afraid this is moving too far away from rec.*equestrian*, now.
I'm sorry.  It's been an interesting and nice discussion, though, so
thanks for your answers.

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rod J. Ring				If you can take it to water,
Institut fuer Informatik		and force it to drink,
Freie Universitaet Berlin, FRG		it isn't a horse.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From: donnag@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Donna Griffiths)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:49:34 GMT
Subject: Re: re: CID in Arabs and Arab-related horses
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

In rec.equestrian, tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman) writes:

> Hi, Donna, I can shed some light on this.  CID is an inherited immune
Good answer Tracy, here is my .02$ 
** Warning ! extreme bloodline detail ** 

The herds  Tracy is talking  about are  primarily  Crabbet/Sheyk  Obeyd
Egyptian.  (Some have some high  quotients  of  inbreeding  also, so if
there was CID it  definitely  would have  surfaced  by now!)  These are
excellent,  strong, friendly and beautiful  horses that do well in show
and trail.  This is an  incredible  tribute  to the  excellence  of the
bloodlines.

Note also, that CID (to my  knowledge)  has NOT been found in Al Khamsa
Arabian horses (which include most straight  Egyptians, the  Davenports
and others).  CID has not been noted in the "most highly inbred  horses
in the world"  either, the remaining  "100% Blunt" horses (Bruce Maloof
has some of these, also known as "Doyle" arabians and tracing  entirely
to the Crabbet Egyptian  program of Lady Anne and Wilfred Scawen Blunt,
specifically lines from Gulnare, Ghadaf and Nusi primarily)

(To my knowledge, the Fable and Shalimar  herds are this blood with the
addition of some excellent old Egyptian and Skowronek blood.)

Note that "my knowledge" is always growing, so any
corrections/additions are welcome...

thanks!
Donna