HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rjv@a2.cim.cdc.com (Rene Valdes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: 1962:Castro proposes first nuclear strike
Date: 4 Nov 92 01:01:43 GMT
Reply-To: rjv@a2.cim.cdc.com (Rene Valdes)

In article Edelmiro writes:
|> this.  Furthermore the European Community fan
|> club has rejected the Torricelli Law since they
|> believe that Cuba is no threat to U.S. national
|> security, and now it seems that Mr. Castro is not
|> only a threat to the U.S., but also to the 
|> world, for he is one of the few maniacs (along with
|> S. Hussein) who has been willing to go ahead with plans
|> of nuclear annihilation for the sole purpose of
|> maintaining his political survival.  Furthermore,
|> 
|> Edelmiro

Edelmiro, I'll post fragments of the article I was referring
to below, including the full text of Castro's telegram.  
However, I want to emphasize that inspite of my horror
at such a telegram, I do not think that Castro is today
any significant threat to U.S. national security.  And,
moreover, I want to make it very clear that I do not 
support the Torricelli Law, basically for three reasons:
1. It show the USA trying to bully other countries into
adopting its policies without respect for international
pratices.
2. It harms first and foremost the Cuban people, including
my close relatives in Cuba who are at risk of going hungry.
3. It gives Castro the perfect scapegoat for all the misery
in Cuba and an argument to claim that his enemy is the
USA, not the Cuban people.
Definitely, very bad timing!

Now for the article, published in the New York Times and
reproduced in the Minneapolis Star Tribune of 10/30/92:
 
FIDEL CASTRO WANTED A NUCLEAR STRIKE
ON U.S.

by Fedor Burlatsky

Cambridge, Mass.

"For me, the culmination of the Cuban missile crisis was
not Oct. 27, 1962, when President John Kennedy awaited
a reply to his ultimatum to pull the missiles off the island,
but the telegram Fidel Castro sent to Nikita Khrushchev
earlier:

"'I propose the immediate launching of a nuclear strike on
the United States.  The Cuban people are prepared to 
sacrifice themselves for the cause of the destruction of
imperialism and the victory of world revolution.'

"Two large question marks and exclamation points stood
out in the margin of the telegram.  They were written by
Leonid Brezhnev's succesor Yuri Andropov, who was then
in charge of an international division of the party's Central
Committee.

"I foun him pacing in his office, repeating over and over:
'Adventurists.  Such adventurists.'

"I asked, 'Do you just mean the Cubans or someone in this
building as well?'

"He looked at me sharply but said nothing.  Later, as if
returning to my question, Andropov told me what
Khrushchev had told his advisers about the telegram:
'You see how far things can go.  We've got to get those
missiles out of there before a real fire starts.'
...............................

This is about one third of the article, but I don't have
the time to copy the whole thing.  I'm sure you can find
it in your local library.

|    Rene J. Valdes              |     rjv@a2.cim.cdc.com       | 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: piro@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Oreste Piro)
Subject: Re: IPS:USA:Cuban Missile Crisis & Braz
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:38:36 GMT

In article <oexPrsS00UhW86uodj@andrew.cmu.edu> hs1c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Hector Salgado-Galicia) writes:
>In article sent by David Sangurima <sangu>:
>
>
>>in 1962, the oas suspended cuba, not because it was openly
>>marxist, but because it had entered into a military alliance with
>>an extra-continental power -- the former soviet union.
>
>Wonder why the OAS did not suspend the US after their overt military
>support to England during the Malvinas (Falkland) War.

Because the Malvinas (Falkland) Islands are not in America (Edelmiro
Salas, Obras completas, 1992)
Not even sure that Argentina is in America, because the (ex USA flag)
Belgrano cruise was sunk in territorial waters of that country
way far from the war theater. 

>H. Salgado

Gotcha!
Ores.
From: gilberto@zzz.pe.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Herrera Ruiz GILBERTO)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Ninguno
Date: 6 Nov 92 03:04:21 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Dept. of Precision Machinery Eng., The University of Tokyo,
	Japan.


Edelmiro writes:

>However, with respect to Cuba, you are rigth when you say that shanty
>towns don't exist, since what you find are shanty CITIES along with
>crumbling housing in the cities. Anybody who still thinks that there
>is no pauperism in Cuba should take a trip and get off the turist
>trail for a while. Yuo'll be in for a suprise

I did it and I did not find what you mention.

Seria bueno que si fuiste a Cuba la veas con ojos mas imparciales pero
despues de haber oido todos tus comentarios por un mes acerca de
muchos topicos creo es pedir imposibles, estoy seguro que si pasas por
Francia y ves que el el presidente es del partido socialista nos diras
que en Paris se mueren de hambre que todo es un caos etc. y todo
porque? porque tienen un presidente socialista!!! gran conclusion,
pero en Inglaterra donde esta el partido conservador no ahi todo es
primer mundo todo esta bien y se respira libertad!!! gran conclusion.
Realmente la forma de ver el mundo como la ves es muy simple.
Comunismo malo, nacionalismo malo (porque se confunde con socialismo),
allende malo porque es amigo de Castro, yo malo porque no veo a Cuba
mal como tu la viste (tampoco la vi bien aclaro) etc. y Pinochet
bueno, La dictadura argentina buena porque acabo con el comunismo lo
demas no es importante, solo es importante cuando hay que defender a
USA de la de Malvinas (entonces la dictadura argentina si es mala) etc.
Para ti no hay terminos intermedios o estas encontra del comunismo o
sino eres comunista, esta es una forma de pensar muy simple, muy sin
objetivos.Y si realmente estas convencido de lo que piensas te diria
algo que un amigo siempre decia:
"Hablas muy bonito pero no haces nada" Accion mi buen Edelmiro, has
algo por cambiar a Cuba como lo hizo Fidel, No escribas desde
California comodamente tus impresiones del mundo.

Gilberto
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: anibal@ee470.ee.mcgill.ca (Anibal Jodorcovsky)
Subject: Re: Salas
Keywords: Tacticas
Organization: EE Lab, McGill University EE Lab, Montreal
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:10:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.090609.6442@massey.ac.nz> G.A.Arias@massey.ac.nz (G A Arias) writes:
>Red:
>
>Edelmiro Salas constituye un caso psicologico peculiar. Lo unico que el 
>pretende con sus cartas es un poco de atencion... de la cual debe ser carente
>en el medio en el que circula. Es bueno que tanta gente de la red lo ayude
>en este problema, haciendole sentir importante, discutiendole... el debe estar
>feliz.
>
>Por mi parte, siempre que veo en el remite las dos letras "ez" oprimo la
>letra "k" o "n" y asunto arreglado. Propongo "llevarle la cuerda", es
>decir, darle la razon en todo (por saber que efectos tiene esta nueva
>tactica). Presiento que seria terrible para el. Lo otro seria no leer sus
>mensajes, no comentarlos, nada. Esto seria fatal pero vale la pena
>probar... no creen?
>
>G.


TOTALMENTE DE ACUERDO!

-Anibal
From: rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Nicaragua
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:37:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <1992Nov6.202302.19471@wam.umd.edu> aap@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>In article <18951@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
>> Dice Alberto Adolfo Pinkas:

>
>No es verdad. Lo que indica es que aquel que habla de como duele la  
>tortura sin haber sido torturado, lo hace desde una posicion mucho mas  
>debil que el que lo sufrio. Y, que si el que lo sufrio demustra el error,  
>es probable que sepa mas que el que no lo sufrio.
>

 Adolfo, si aplicas este razonamiento a la visita de tu madre a Cuba se
 puede concluir que nosotros los cubanos que hemos ido y que tenemos
 familiares en Cuba sabemos mas que tu madre acerca de Cuba ya que ella
 fue solamente de visita alla'.
 
 Dices que ella "se escurrio" para ver de verdad los hospitales!
 Oh che, no sabes lo que vos estas hablando ....
--
Ray I. Ravelo                 "We're your opposition, Mr. Castro, we 10 million
Office of Academic Computing.  Cubans who look around us in terror"
UC, Irvine.                   from the open letter to Castro by M.E. Cruz-Varela
From: icpa@iat.holonet.net (Tony Rodriguez)
Subject: International Software Jobs
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:33:28 GMT

	The International Computer Professional Association is a member 
supported organization for experienced software professionals who want to
work overseas. By using our network of over 750 technical recruitment firms 
in the US and abroad, members can find contract and permanent software jobs
throughout the world. If you are interested in working overseas, contact us
including your name, address, and evening phone number and we will send you
information on membership with the ICPA.


Sincerely 

Tony Rodriguez

Director ICPA


International Computer Professional Association
2261 Market Street, Suite 309
San Francisco, CA 94114
USA

Tel: (415) 695 - 7618
Fax: (415) 252 - 5769

email icpa@holonet.net
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Friday, 6 Nov 1992 21:43:40 EST
From: <CMLEE@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Networks in Latin America
Distribution: world

Hola Aldo,
          Al ver tu articulo acerca de networks in Latin America,
me vino una emocion muy grandes al saber que hay formas de comunicarse
con el pais de uno. Pero me desiluciono mucho al ver que Paraguay no
estaba en la lista que publicaste. Te pido que si me podrias publicar
la forma de comunicarme a mi querido pais, si es que la tienes a mano.
          Gracias y saludos de un paraguayo cogelado en las frias
tierras de Michigan.
                         Antonio.
From: mossiar@soc3.acpub.duke.edu (Dante Mossi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: LATIN AMERICA: POOR QUALITY, HIGH D
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:46:47 GMT

Lei este articulo sobre la descentralizacion del sistema educativo en paises
latinos. Yo tengo mis reservas al respecto. El problema de que los estudiantes
dejan de ir a la escuela no son malos maestros o malas instalaciones fisicas de
las aulas donde reciben clase. El problema es economico. Ni~os y Ni~as en
latinoamerica son obligados a trabajar desde  muy temprano en actividades del
hogar. Sea agricultura, labores del hogar, o trabajos con sueldos de subsistencia
para ayudar a la familia.
Yo creo que un sistema donde los estudiantes son atraidos, sea por programa de
"trabajo" en donde el estudiante es remunerado por ir a la escuela y sacar buenas
notas tendria mas efecto que una organizacion local con menos recursos.
Especialmente en latinoamerica, donde la desigualdad social es tan fuerte,
podriamos terminar con regiones con sistemas educativos muy ricos y otros muy
pobres, tanto en recursos financieros, como humanos.
La educacion, especialmente a nivel primario debera ser el primer objetivo de
gobiernos latinoamericanos. En Honduras, de 100 ni~os que empiezan el primer
grado, solo uno o una llegara al primer a~o de la universidad publica.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: desoto@hardy.u.washington.edu (Carlos Acuna)
Subject: Re: The Chilean Model
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 09:21:16 GMT

fevava@sicsun.epfl.ch (Felipe VALENZUELA) writes:

>In article <1992Nov2.200819.19289@brtph560.bnr.ca>, ritz@brtph95.bnr.ca (Charles Ritz P215) writes:
>|> Newsgroups: soc.culture.lain-america
>|> Subject: The Chilean Economic Miracle
>|> Summary: 
>|> Followup-To: 
>|> Distribution: world
>|> Organization: Bell-Northern Research, RTP, NC
>|> Keywords: 
>|> 
>Charles,

>If you go to Chile, you will find a lot of shanty-towns (6 millions of poors)
>and If you go to Cuba those towns don't exist. What do you think about that?
>(if you think and you don't repeat the propaganda of those support dictatorships
>in Latin-America (USA and allied).

>Felipe Valenzuela
>Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (Lausanne)
>Computer Centre

Felipe,

From your comments, I can only believe that you haven't been to Cuba. I admit   that Chile has a high pecentage of poverty, BUT, they were even more poor when Pinochet assumed goverment. Not only that but, they were happy to see him!!!
If you think a little, why would Cubans risk drowning or being eaten up by      sharks to flee if it was such a great place to live??  Or in that case, any    other communist regime. Maybe you should speak with some cuban refugee and     stop giving credit to these communist regime that already have proven unworthy.
Anyhow, returning back to Pinochet, at least he, as many other right wing goverments, sooner or later return the goverment to the people. Isn't it about time  that Mr. Castro offers his people the right to choose??

Carlos Acuna
U of Washington
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: The Chilean Model (Once Again)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:29:27 GMT

In article <19034@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
>Dice G. Gavin:
>
>Hola!
>
>>[...] Sin embargo no debemos caer en exageraciones muchas veces usada por
>>los medios de comunicacion (e.g. "6 millones de pobres en Chile").
>
>Muy bien dicho.  Por lo que dicen por aqui parecia que Chile era un pais de 
>arrables que estaba en peor situacion que la miseria que se encuentra en Cuba.  
>Finalmente alguien con un poco de objetividad nos hace ver que son simples 
>exageraciones y que los Chilenos han progresado mucho luego de la pesadilla 
>socialista-marxista-leninista-no-fabiana* con la que experimento Allende y el 
>Partido Comunista Chileno. 

Objetividad? Cual objetividad?
Que yo sepa esto es tan subjetivo como lo que dicen aquellos que opinan lo
contrario.

Cuando alguno de alguna estadistica sobre cuantos vivian bajo los niveles de
pobreza antes del golpe y ahora, cual era el nivel de la salud y de la 
educacion publica, etc, etc, entonces voy a creer que hay objetividad en 
lo que se dice.


>Ayer mismo presencie (en Univision Alberto) 

LO cual habla del grado de seriedad de tus opiniones.


>la 
>exposicion comercial que se esta celebrando en Santiago.  Un verdadero ejemplo 
>de liberalismo economico latinoamericano.  !!Felicitaciones a nuestros amigos 
>Chilenos!!

Yo siempre veo en Univision la muestra de la Sociedad Rural Argentina, 
inclusive aquella a la que fue Bush, y no por eso me creo que eso sea
un ejemplo de nada.


>Saludos
>
>Edelmiro
>

AAP
From: ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: 1962:Castro proposes first nuclear strike
Date: 9 Nov 92 08:01:02 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

Raul,

Many thanks for reproducing the telegram in which Castro requests Krushchov
to push the button in the name of socialism.  What the telegram does not
say is that soviet commanderos over which Castro had much more influence, had
tactical nuclear weapons at their exclusive disposal, which neede no
authorization from the Kremlin in the event of an escalation of the conflict.
It is evident that Krushove was a wise man.  Perhaps that's why he was purged
soon thereafter.

Regarding your comment opposing the Torrcelli Law.  They are legitimate 
doubts which are leveled (without having to bash the U.S. in the process). I
do not think that nobody will starve to death in Cuba.  The law contemplates
the shipment of humanitarian aid administered by international agencies, and
if Castro decides not to allow the people to be fed by the Red Cross or other
relief agencies, then our troops will be there to guarantee that nobody
starves.  Castro is totally isolated.  They little support he has from
abroad is no match to an agressive U.S. stance on the matter.  As to the
using of the embargo as an excuse for repression and misery, I think
that Castro will find some other excuse to justify his brutality, although
certainly it generates further internal terror, for nobody in their sane
mind will want to justify the policy within Cuba.  Sooner or later the 
excuse will wash away and be insufficient to deterr popular  protests. Who 
knows, they way things are now a brothel fight could deteriorate into a riot.

Thanks,

Edelmiro
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: The Chilean Model
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:21:31 GMT

In article <19037@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
>Dice: Alberto Adolfo Pinkas
>
>>Yo no veo que la gente justifique a Fidel Castro en este foro. 
>
>?Como  que no ves?  Ayer me encotre un posting de David Sangurima que dice que 
>Cuba la medicina y la educacion es gratuita y la mejor del mundo 


El mensaje que me llogo a mi no decia que Cuba tenia la mejor educacion
o medicina del mundo. Quizas el problema es que nos llegan diferentes 
versiones de los mismos mensajes?


>y a cada rato 
>salen los llorones quejandose de las sanciones economicas contra el gobierno de 
>Castro y luego vienes tu a decir que nadie justifica a Fidel Castro en la red.  
Yo sigo sin ver una justificacion del regimen en aquellos que creen que las
sanciones no son la mejor forma de resolver el problema.


>Lo que ocurre es que antes se atrevian a justificarlo directamente y ahora se 
>han metido en el closet tratan de ayudarlo mediante comentanrios 
>propagandisticos como "en Cuba no hay arrabales" y otras fantasias por el 
>estilo.  

Tampoco vi a nadie que diga que en Cuba no hay arrabales. Lo que si vi
fue algun comentario diciendo que en Cuba no estan mucho peor que en 
otros lados.


>Es mas acaban de enarbolar la tesis de que la situacion econmica 
>chilena (con sus millones de pobre y arrabales masivos) esta mejor que la 
>utopia cubana y nadie se indigna ante semejante pendejada.  

Creo que casi todos se indignaron ante esto.
Supongo que tenes un error de tipeo y queres decir lo opuesto a lo que 
decis.


>>Lo que mas he
>>visto es que la gente cree que hay paises que estan peor y que una cosa no
>>justifica la otro, como el defender a Pinochet.
>
>?De que Pinochet me estas hablando?  

que yo sepa hay un solo Pinochet.


>Del que dirigio la tortura en el 73 o del 
>heroe economico en los 80, o del actual lider popular de las Fuerzas Armadas 
>Chilenas que se va de vacaciones entre sus huespedes y amigos en Buenos Aires?

Que yo sepa hay un solo Pinochet, el mismo que fue recibido por
los que son la misma mierda que en el Buenos Aires.


>
>Edelmiro

Alberto Pinkas
From: David Sangurima <sangu@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Date: 11 Nov 92 21:09 PST
Subject: IPS:Colombia:Guerrilla Attack
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1473800380:000:1832
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!sangu    Nov 11 21:09:00 1992


From: David Sangurima <sangu>
Subject: IPS:Colombia:Guerrilla Attack

/* Written 12:06 am  Nov 10, 1992 by newsdesk@igc.apc.org in igc:ips.englibrary */
/* ---------- "COLOMBIA: 28 POLICEMEN DIE IN GUERR" ---------- */
Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Title: COLOMBIA: 28 POLICEMEN DIE IN GUERRILLA AMBUSH


santa fe de bogota, nov 6 (ips) -- 28 policemen guarding an oil
well were killed in a guerrilla ambush early on saturday near the
town of orito in south western colombia, according to the
authorities.

a local radio station reported that army sources based in the
city of cali believe the attack was carried out by a unit of the
revolutionary armed forces of colombia (farc).

meanhile police in the colombian capital, bogota, imposed
tight security measures on saturday, after 11 small bombs
exploded in areas near major banks. no deaths were reported but
one passerby was injured.

bogota's police chief, general guillermo leon dietes,
described the latest wave of attacks as ''terrorist acts
motivated by the desire to create a stir''.

he said that within a 30-minute period the attackers had
''placed explosive devices in different parts of the city, using
a simultaneous timing system similar to the one they use for
burning buses.''

at the end of october, urban commandos of the national
guerrilla coordinator (cng) set light to 13 buses in various
parts of the capital as part of a propaganda offensive aimed at
pressuring the government to resume peace negotiations.

the police chief explained that in both attacks the rebels had
used devices containing a 'cocktail' of chemicals ''which are
left for a while and then explode on contact with eachother.''
(ends/ips/trd-sp/mig/in/cg/92)
----
From: ec2i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erico Crespo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Venta de Telefonica de Puerto Rico
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:55:23 GMT
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Ayer escuche un rumor de que la Telefonica de Puerto Rico habia sido
vendida a una companhia espanhola.
Alguien sabe algo sobre este asunto?
Saludos
Erico Crespo
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: jschonho@us.oracle.com
Subject: Re: Is there a news group for Peru?
Organization: Oracle Corporation, USA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 03:44:11 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Oct29.162402.16253@phcomgw.seri.philips.nl>, grimaldo@tokyo.seri.philips.nl (Emilio Grimaldo) writes:
> cathy@techbook.com (Cathy Gaupo) writes:
> : cathy@techbook.com (Cathy Gaupo) writes:
> : 
> : >I would like to get more information about Peru.
> 
> 	  What about Panama? anybody knows?
> 		    Emilio
> 		    grimaldo@tokyo.sce.philips.nl

Has anybody reposted Pedro Saizar's list-of-lists lately?  It's a year old, 
but most of the info is still more or less current; I can dig it up if there
is interest.  As for Panama, there's no Panama mailing list 
that I'm aware of, but there is a Central American list (about 50/50
English-Spanish), that I happen to administer.  You can subscribe by sending a
message to listerv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu saying:

SUB CENTAM-L <your name>

If you want to subscribe but can't get this to work for you, send me a quick 
nota (preferably at jms@netcom.com) and I can add you myself.
From: cmbr01@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Bogota: city voltage supply and transformers; info. required.
Date: 13 Nov 92 09:15:48 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

Hi
I plan to move to Bogota soon (should I?!) and would like
to know if I can buy there a transformer to match the Bogota
supply to UK electronic equipment (240V). I know Bogota had
such a voltage in the past but that it has now different.

How much would such a transformer be and are they easily obtained?

Please e-mail replies if possible.

Thx in advance.

Adios, J.> 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america