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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
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Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:12:24 EST
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 3096

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 3096

                          Tuesday, January 12, 1993

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                                    Re: ?
                                 Medications
                                Chiropractors
                                Chiropractors
                  Greetings from a new person on this echo
                                  Traction
                          Colitus, Shingles & Gout
                                  your TENS
                                 imipramine
                                      ?


                                ******


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Subject: Re: ?
From: Stefan.Welch@p0.f33.n125.z1.fidonet.org (Stefan Welch)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:125/33.0 - BODY DHARMA ONLINE, Oakland CA


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

 -=> Quoting Bill Waller to All <=-

 BW> I have a neurological condition which causes almost constant pain.
 BW> I have gone through all the steps to make sure it is not something
 ...
 BW> I have tried many treatments including TENS, NSAIDS, and narcotic
 BW> analgesics.  The only thing that really works seems to be the
 ...
 BW> learn to deal with it?  If it were just me, I would probably do
 BW> just that, but my family and business associates are involved too.
 BW> What should I do?

 Hi Bill, my heart goes out to you. The prospect of long term
 chronic pain is far from a rosy picture for one to face.

 Many of us here have tried lots of different things. I've worked
 with narcotic analgesics and found, over the long haul, that
 they aggravate the cycles of high/low pain and detract from my
 overall ability to manage pain. For me, narcotics regularly generated
 nasty, horrible pain crises.  :( <Boo, hiss>. Certain kinds of
 anti-depressants help some people; I'm taking imipramine, though
 without particularly notable improvement. Anti-depressants
 clinically appear to help mood and in some cases have somewhat
 of an analgesic effect of their own.

 "Toughing it out" implies, for me, gritting my teeth in
 adversarial stance to pain which tends to generate more tension
 and stress and make the original pain problem harder to manage.
 My best successes have come from heat, deep relaxation, and
 mouthing off about pain while interspersing it with humor in
 this echo.  :)  The compassionate voices and listening here help
 substantially.

 Bob Paddock has asked about deep relaxation so I'm developing a
 description of that in a message here to him. Please refer there
 for more details.

 See you again soon. Best wishes,

 Stefan

... But soft, what light through yonder tagline breaks?

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!125!33.0!Stefan.Welch
Internet: Stefan.Welch@p0.f33.n125.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Medications
From: Bill.Waller@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Waller)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:150/140 - Black Bag BBS, Wilmington DE


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

It seems to me that people with pain, although cursed in one way, are
especially gifted in others.  I lived 36 years without ever knowing
pain.  I thought I was tough because I have done physically demanding
things.  I thought Marine Corps boot camp was a lark.  I was a good
long distance runner.  Riding 60 miles on a bicycle was a peice of
cake.  I thought that was pain.  To someone in pain, I was very
mis-understanding.  My attitude was, "Just be tough... Put it out of
our mind.  Get busy.  An idle mind is the devil's workshop."  I
sincerely apologize.

I know pain now and it has given me an insight that I never could have
had otherwise.  I am not gloating over my newfound empathy.  I am simply
acknowledging my previous ignorance.

I own a small computer software company (about 15 employees).  I really
love my work.  I have now had chronic pain for about 4 years.  It is
a challenge to cope with it and still be productive and enjoy my family.
I am determined to do so.

Are there ways that I can use the success in my life to champion the cause
of people in chronic pain?  If so, I must be careful not to alienate my
co-workers who might not understand.  (Like I didn't understand before?)

I was so anti-drug that I still have a hard time taking narcotics, even
though they improve the quality of my life and to a greater extent, the
life of my family and my business associates.  When I get off of medication,
I tend to withdraw and want to hide from society.  It really scares my
wife.  I really become useless.  Is this subject taboo even among those
who know pain?

Has anyone ever heard of epibatidine.  It is an organochlorine compound
extracted from the skin or saliva of Ecuadorian frogs.  It is a powerful
centrally acting analgesic which is not simular to opiods.  (It is not
reversed by naloxone.)

How about the use of dexedrine or ritalin for chronic pain.  There have
been some interesting studies indicating that these may be very helpful
especially when combined with morphene.  They reverse the depression and
mental clouding that can be caused by morphine.  They may also boost
the auto-imune system.

I don't mean to sound like a hippie from the 70's.  I am just interested
in people being happy and productive.  If I am too far out in left field,
just say, and I will drop the subject.  If there are any interested in
advancing the pharmacological treatment of chronic pain, let me know.
Perhaps we can really help others who suffer in silence.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!150!140!Bill.Waller
Internet: Bill.Waller@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Chiropractors
From: Peggy.Mcbride@f0.n2202.z1.fidonet.org (Peggy Mcbride)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2202/0 - Boat Town USA, Mt. Clemens MI


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

LC>I felt a little guilty for awhile, parking in the handicapped parking spaces
LC>But, after some very good advice from people here, on the Spinal Injury echo
LC>and on the Abled echo, I felt better about having the sticker.  You and ONLY
LC>YOU know how much you hurt.  People who are not in chronic pain can have
LC>absolutely no idea of how much you hurt. Therefore, they can't understand wh
LC>you have a sticker.

This reminds me of something funny that happened last week.  Remember
the friend I told you about, that has a sticker, (here in Michigan, they
are little red/blue cards hung from the rear view mirrow),... Anyway,
having one of my bad days, I called her and we went out for a while, (if
I stayed in on bad days, I might not ever get out <grin>).  We stopped
to eat, I managed to get out of the car, after pushing and etc., and
this older guy, (maybe we got the last handicapped space), said to me,
"couldn't your friend have driven and dropped you at the door, and
then you wouldn't have to take up a space for real handicapped people".
We looked at each other kinda snickered and then at him, and she polited
stated, "the sticker is mine, and I can not drive per doctors
orders".... He looked at us like we were nuts.  But anyway, I am
rabbling.... :)  No one KNOWS what handicap a person may have when using
those parking spaces, too many people jump to conclusions.    The man
jumped to the conclusion, that the sticker was mine, because he watched
her jump outta the car, and watched me take 5 minutes to get out.  He
DIDN't know, if she walks more than 20 or 30 feet, chances are she will
get off balance and fall. (she looks healthy as a horse)

LC>I must admit that I did have fun on my virgin wheelie trip today.  Went to
LC>Walmart to pick up some prescriptions and do a little craft shopping. I had
LC>talked to someone over the phone the other night and she told me how she
LC>shopped and how to handle the wheelchair and the shopping cart. I did just
LC>fine...with just one little bitty mishap...I got too close to another shoppi
LC>cart and skinned my knuckle a bit.  But, I'm proud of myself!

Saw this on another echo. You are getting around today aren't you?:)
The stores up here, have wheelchair shopping carts, do any of the stores
down there have such a contraption?

 * SLMR 2.1 * I use to have a life, Now I have a 386...

 * SLMR 2.1 * I use to have a life, Now I have a 386...

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2202!0!Peggy.Mcbride
Internet: Peggy.Mcbride@f0.n2202.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Chiropractors
From: Linda.Cummings@f34.n375.z1.fidonet.org (Linda Cummings)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:375/34 - Batteries Included, Montgomery AL


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

 > I do craft shows in the Mid-Atlantic show circuit. I deonstrate
 > fretsawing non-stop at every show. Other crafters and customers
 > ask how I can sit for 12 hours without getting up, but it's easy
 > when you can't stand for 10 minuets.

I have to stand a little bit or else I wouldn't be able to move.
With this wheelchair, though, it has the legrests and I'm much more
comfortable than just sitting in a chair or a booth, etc.  Laying
down would be ideal, but you can't live your life laying down all
of the time.

 > I can't remember the last show I walked around to see what
 > everyone else was doing. My kids ask why I don't go to theme parks
 > and the board walk with them. If people only knew what you have to
 > give up to get one of those blasted plates they'd be a little more
 > understanding.

I don't think too much anymore about what I've had to give up.  It
was just depressing me.  Sometimes, if someone said to me, "Let's
go to the mall," I'd have an excuse why I couldn't.  Then, when I
started using one of the wheelchairs provided, I felt more at
ease.  But, I couldn't depend on them having one available, and I'd
start making up excuses again.  With my own, I can answer "yes" now
instead of making up excuses!  The hardest thing is telling your
friends or family that you can't go somewhere when once you could
without any problems.

 > Good for you BTW on getting the wheelchair! Maybe when I get more
 > comfortable (?) with living with my problems I'll get one. At
 > least then I could go to some of the places my wife and kids want
 > me to go.

Exactly!  John, although some people still feel that a person in a
wheelchair has no brains, with ADA and with public awareness,
people are slowly beginning to realize that we are just like
everybody else, just can't get around by walking.  I had a lot of
good people here on this echo and many other echo's encouraging me
to talk to my doctor about that wheelchair.  They told me, as I'll
tell you, that if it helps you do things you couldn't before, then
by all means get one.

 > I learned one thing though, I'll never tell my wife what
 > a burden I feel like again. I don't know what I did to deserve
 > such a fine woman!

Although you may not tell her again, I will warn you that on really
bad days, you will think it again.  That's normal, though, so don't
feel bad about it, okay?  People in chronic pain think about things
like that, and about suicide, but it's normal.  I think about it.
But, I'm not going to do anything about it.  It's a sort of
fantasy.  When and if you ever seriously start thinking about it,
though, it's time for an attitude adjustment.  But, I'll tell you
something...with wonderful echo's like this one, Spinal Injury,
Abled, and the Adanet echo's, it's really hard to get depressed
anymore.

 > Thanks again for the encouraging words, they really do help!!!!

I'm glad that I could be some sort of an influence, John.  Don't
stop reading the echo's, though.  There's always something in them
that make you feel better.  Humor is the best medicine, and there's
always plenty of that floating around!  ;-)

Linda

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!375!34!Linda.Cummings
Internet: Linda.Cummings@f34.n375.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Greetings from a new person on this echo
From: Elizabethann.Hawhee@f119.n283.z1.fidonet.org (Elizabethann Hawhee)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:283/119 - The Mouse College, Cedar Rapids IA


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hi all, my name is Elizabeth (I also answer to Liz) and my SYSOP was nice
enough to start running Chronic Pain on his board for me.

I am 38 (almost 39 :) ) and have two different problems with chronic pain.
Three years ago I hurt my lower back: which has never stopped hurting. The
other problem started with carpal tunnel syndrome and a related problem with
my elbows. I had the corrective surgeries which worked for two years: now
there are times when I cannot use my hands for only the most necessary
activities.

Because of my back I cannot stand for very long, sit in most chairs for very
long, or walk very far. The TENs unit helps some but I became allergic to the
patches (in all forms) so I can use it only for a few hours every week. So far
all of the medications they (neurologist and pain clinic) have tried me on I
have assorted adverse reactions to and of course no one wants to give me any
pain pills.

I asked my SYSOP to carry this echo because I find myself in need of some
emotional support at times. Sometimes the nights get so very long when I hurt
too much to sleep, and it seems that most people do not understand chronic
pain. Especially the doctors I have run into.

In many ways I am very lucky, mostly because I have a very loving husband, and
FIVE loving cats. I continue to find joy in life (most of the time) and try to
keep in a good mood, but pain sure does tend to drag a person down at times.

I look forward to making new friends on this echo.

Every one take care,
Elizabeth

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!283!119!Elizabethann.Hawhee
Internet: Elizabethann.Hawhee@f119.n283.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Traction
From: Peggy.Mcbride@f0.n2202.z1.fidonet.org (Peggy Mcbride)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2202/0 - Boat Town USA, Mt. Clemens MI


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Karen,

BP>What happens is the muscles in my neck get as hard as a rock (seriously
BP>they really do), the muscles get very tired, sore and cause alot of
BP>pain. The muscles become so tight they pull vertibra out of their proper
BP>position and then the misplaced vertibra cause a pinched nerve, causing
BP>more pain and muscle problems.  This is the best way I can describe my
BP>pain to everybody on this bbs.

Have you been in PT at all?  The pain you describe is very much like the
pain I had for years after a spinal gone bad, (went in the hospital for
minor surgery, they used a spinal anesthetic, and I got a spinal
headache that kept me there 2 weeks).   After suffering for years with
it, my physician sent me to a orthopedic specialist to discuss surgery
for my back problem, he sent me to physical therapy for 8 week, 3/4
times a week, and it didn't help the backpain, but the pain in my neck
was greatly reduced.

 * SLMR 2.1 * BAH HUMBUG!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2202!0!Peggy.Mcbride
Internet: Peggy.Mcbride@f0.n2202.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Colitus, Shingles & Gout
From: Jean-Pierre.Beland@f41.n243.z1.fidonet.org (Jean-Pierre Beland)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:243/41 - The SugarBush, Gloucester ON


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hi! Steve,

 > My father came down with colitus, aparantly the medicine
 > stimulated a hidden condition of shingles.  He broke out in
 > for the shingles.  He became less active and rarely gets
 > dressed during the day and stays in pajamas while watching
 > TV.  He was always an active person.

Shingles is very painful and that may be the reason that your
father is inactive.  Somehow you or any other member of the familly
should encourage him to dress and take little walks if he can.
Usually a female member of the familly will be more successful at
getting him to do all those things.  But don't try to rush things
as he is going through a rough time with these two conditions.

 > Question, does all this seem in line?  Will the pain of
 > shingles subside?  Can the pain be a permament condition?

You did not mention how long this has been going on, but it takes a
while for the pain of shingles to go down but it does go away but
may return.  Hopefully the medication is helping.

 > in the body).  Does it make sense that the sewlling might be
 > from his inactivity.  Would an encouragement of walking every

Yes, the swelling could be from his inactivity and is common for
someone who is inactive.  So he should walk as much as possible.
Sometimes exercising a limb can help reduce or elliminate the
pain.  I had that experience with my right arm, even though it was
not shingle.

 > family members that can see the symptoms better than a doctor
 > as a doctor only sees the patient for a few minutes in an
 > office.

I have experience looking after senior persons and I would
recommend that a familly member who is aware of the symptoms and
conditions of your father, accompany him to the doctor's office.
That person should be with him in the office to add information and
explain to the doctor what is happening as often seniors often
forget to mention something that may be important for their
health.

I hope that I have been helpful but I am not a doctor and this is
just as I see them and by the experiences that I had.

cheers, J.P.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!243!41!Jean-Pierre.Beland
Internet: Jean-Pierre.Beland@f41.n243.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: your TENS
From: Ruthie.Hoffman@f660.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Ruthie Hoffman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:260/660 - Interstellar System, Vine Valley NY


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

 > This is Karen Shettler.

Hi Karen.

In your message to Al Smith:
 > Do you find your TENS unit as effective now as it was when you
 > first
 > started using it?  On what part of your body do you us it?  Do
 > you
 > get sores from the electrodes?  If you do get sores what do you
 > do
 > for them?

I've used a TENS unit for more than a year now.  It is as effective
as it ever was.  I use mine on my lower lumbar area, and on trigger
points on my upper buttocks.  I only had skin irritation one time,
when I first used the multi-day adhesive electrodes (my favorite
type) and didn't care for my skin properly while using them, and
afterwards. I quickly learned, from my PT at the time, to use a
skin preparation before putting them on, and to clean the area off
when removing them, again using special cleaner.  Also I learned to
use a cream on my skin, after removal and cleansing of the area,
that helped the skin. I have NO problems now.

If you have any further questions, just ask!

CUL, Ruthie

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!260!660!Ruthie.Hoffman
Internet: Ruthie.Hoffman@f660.n260.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: imipramine
From: Ruthie.Hoffman@f660.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Ruthie Hoffman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:260/660 - Interstellar System, Vine Valley NY


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hi Stefan...

I saw mention in your message to Bill Waller that you are taking
imipramine, but with little results???

My doc and my friend the phsycologist both mentioned that if one
tri-cyclic anti-depressant doesn't work for helping someone with
chronic pain, quite often another one will.  Amytriptalyne (sp?)
was the one suggested I try if the imipramine didn't help.  In
fact, that is the one they USUALLY try first for chronic pain.  The
imiprimine was my idea to try first.

CUL, Ruthie

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!260!660!Ruthie.Hoffman
Internet: Ruthie.Hoffman@f660.n260.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: ?
From: Bill.Waller@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Waller)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:150/140 - Black Bag BBS, Wilmington DE


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Yes, I think you are exactly right.  I have tried imipramine
(Tofranil), but after a few days, the anticholinergic side effects
were too much.  I was taking 75mg a day.  I am trying it again now
at 50mg per day.  I have only been taking it for four days so I
don't know how it will work.

The source of my pain is unknown.  An MRI study indicated 2 disc
herniations at C4-C5 and one at L4-L5, but I do not think this is
the source of pain.  Pain is mostly in the legs, but sometimes in
the arms.  When the pain becomes intense, I cannot think about
anything else.

Although it has side effects, pain medication does enable me to
function quite normally.  It allows me to be productive in my work
and to enjoy my family.  Without medication I am in agony.

I need some advice on asking for pain medication.  I am afraid my
doctor will think I am a drug abuser and refuse to treat me. This
probably stems from my previous intolerance to people who
complained about pain.  I thought they were drug abusers, attention
seekers, or just morally weak.  Do other people feel this way?
What can I do so that I can be a productive member of society, even
if it means having to use narcotic pain medications?  Is there any
way I can put myself at ease about running out or not being able to
get pain medication.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!150!140!Bill.Waller
Internet: Bill.Waller@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org




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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 3096 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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