From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Cholov Yisrael
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:48:11 GMT

pab1@quads.uchicago.edu (paul andrew braier) writes:

> This was brought on by a story about milk. While most food items DO
> require heksher, there are many items that don't. Any fresh fruit
> or vegetable (with a certain qualification for Israeli produce) doesn't
> need rabbinic supervision. Whole dried spices, beans and rice don't need
> a heksher. Many canned vegetables also don't need a heksher.

Though it may be argued that fresh fruits and vegetables do not
require rabbinic supervision, save for the above-mentioned
qualification, many people are quite careful with regard to
checking for bugs in certain vegetables.  Many poskim hold,
for instance, that Brussels sprouts and artichokes not be
eaten at all, since they are nearly impossible to inspect
thoroughly.

Some kashrut organizations will refuse to grant a hekhsher on
certain vegetables altogether; on others, they may require full
inspection, by any of a variety of methods suitable to the
particular vegetable.

> The reason I bring this up is that there is a disagreement regarding
> milk. While certain communities hold that milk requires heksher, that is,
> that milk be _cholov_Yisrael_, this is by no means required by _halacha_.

For those communities that require chalav Yisrael (more grammatically,
chalev Yisrael), CY *is* required by Halakha.  Many would call it a
chiddush that CY *not* be required, some even claiming that, were it
not for a heter from a respected Halakhic authority, it would be a
violation of Halakha to drink chalav stam.  (That doesn't mean, however,
that everyone accepts the psak.)  Much is involved in this particular
issue, but a peremptory remark that CY is not required by Halakha is
at best incomplete.

> There are many reputable Orthodox authorities who maintain that
> government regulations forbidding the mixture of cows' milk with other
> milk (esp. pig milk) are sufficient, and that additional rabbinic
> supervision is not necessary.

Even among those who hold by Rav Moshe's teshuva wrt CY, there are
many who recognize the circumstances he spelled out as being relevant,
even necessary.  They would claim that because CY was costly and
difficult to obtain, we could rely on the government's inspections.
Now that CY is accessible and costs only pennies more than non-CY
(or Cnon-Y) -- in many communities, at least -- the heter should
not be relied upon.

> I believe that the standard explanation by those who insist upon only
> _cholov_Yisrael_ is that they are driven by fear of G-d rather than
> fear of government. While this is a legitimate argument, one must not
> forget that those who do not hold by _cholov_Yisrael_ nevertheless
> are NOT in violation of _kashrus_ for this.

There are those who hold that this Halakha, straight from the Gemara,
is as valid as the laws of bishul Yisrael, which all require.  Others
compare it to pat Yisrael, which most consider to be a chumra.  It
should be noted, however, that some require pat Yisrael whenever it
is available (e.g., the town has such a bakery).  The Mishnah Brurah
says that one should be careful to use only pat Yisrael during the
time from Rosh HaShanah to Yom Kippur.

Regardless of one's dairy preference (or is "orientation" more
politically correct?), no-one should call non-CY milk "treif,"
since very respected Halakhic authorities permit it.

> Please note that this applies only to milk, but not to milk products
> such as cheese and yogurt. It also only applies in places where
> government supervision is known to be reliable, such as the USA. Foreign
> milk, in the absence of additional necessary information, must not be
> used. This is especially important for travelers to know.

Again, there is some disagreement here.  Some will use non-CY butter.
I believe the Gemara states that butter cannot be made from the milk
of non-kosher animals, even though horse milk (and perhaps others)
can, in fact, make butter.

Cheeses may fall under the same category.  I am not so sure that even
all those CY-ists who eat non-CY cheeses, though, restrict their CY-ism
to milk alone.  They may, of course.  I was merely unaware of this.  (It
wouldn't be the first time.)

I guess with Chanukka coming up, all this could be considered `inyanei
deyoma.

-Don Gertler