From: harelb@math.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Date: 20 Jan 93 16:18 PST
Subject: Re: MIM
Nf-ID: #R:9301210000.AA03422@poly.math.cor:-1744373509:9301210015.AA03472@poly.math.cor:1076110031:000:4794
Nf-From: math.cornell.edu!harelb    Jan 20 16:18:00 1993


From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (Harel Barzilai)
Subject: Re: MIM

Dear Carolyn,

You write:

***I do have news for you.  All guerilla groups carry guns and kill people.

Thoroughly recognized in my "Reply to MIM" article I believe you were
sent a copy of, in which I distinguished from this "carry guns and
kill people" -- or "(I) `guilty of some human rights violations'"
versus (II) in which I alluded to the systematic murderous campaign of
the sort practiced by SL, as documented and further commented about,
including this contast, in my post/email today quoting Amnesty.

Regarding your comparison of SL with some of the other groups -- this
I addressed, with documentation [figures on FMLN available on request,
quoting independent human rights commission]; similarly I already
commented on the inadequecy of the line "are much more humane" [than
the govnerment] -- I refer not to the fact that the documentation I
produced cast rather strong doubts about the appropriateness of the
term "much more humane" in comparing Sendero to the Peruvian army
murderers; rather, that if Sendero murders execution-style 60%
civilians and the army 90%, and Sendero murders hundreds of such
civilians per month/year and the army 2 or 5 times that, those are no
grounds for supporting SL. Those are gounds for voting "none of the
above" and supporting the grassroots democratic resistance movements
targeted by the Peruvian army and Sendero thugs alike.

As for the blowing up of the hospital, you wrote:

    Did Sendero exercise good judgment when they blew up a hospital in
    a rich neighborhood in Lima?  Some would say they did not.  But
    others might stop to think of how few of Lima's poor can avail
    themselves of proper health care, and question if it is fair that
    the rich should be able to receive health services, and that the
    poor should not.

This I read as tacitly supporting the blowing up -- having noted, in
contracst to "some" who would condemn/disagree with the bombing, that
"others might" [presumably disagreeing with the "some would say"] and
"others might [SUGGEST that we note] how few of Lima's poor can afford
.. AND QUESTION IF IT IS FAIR THAT THE RICH SHOULD BE ABLE TO RECEIVE
HEALTH SERVICES..." -- this doesn't look to me like saying too bad
some can but others can't get health care -- rather, that bad
situation is used (by the "others" you mention) to implicitly support
the blowing up of the hospital. Otherwise why contrast these "others"
with those "some would say" who oppose blowing up the hospital, and
even in a way suggestive that the rich deserve the health-care misery
of the poor, instead of misery-free for all? If this was not what you
intended, I will accept that, but I was certainly reacting to what you
wrote.

Harel Barzilai
Co-founder, Co-moderator, misc.activism.progressive (MAP)

##################################################################


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 09:24:00 EST
From: CELLIS@ucs.indiana.edu
X-To: PO1::"harelb@math.cornell.edu"
Subject: RE: ENCLOSURE: from media.issues
To: harelb@math.cornell.edu

Harel:
     You should either check the dosage of whatever prescription you're
taking or start reading your messages more carefully. 
     In neither of my messages did I say that it's ok to blow up a bus 
******************************************************************
because it's unfair that only some can get health care.  The bus to which
I referred was blown up in Guatemala by the URNG because the guerillas
wanted the public to boycott the bus lines.
     I did say that the blowing up of an upper-class hospital by Sendero
makes one think about the inequity of health care availability to the
various socio-economic classes in Peru.

     I do have news for you.  All guerilla groups carry guns and kill people.
******************************************************************
The FMLN, the URNG, and the FSLN have all, at some point or another, committed
some act that some group can call an atrocity.  In my refugee support work,
I have met Salvadorans fleeing from the FMLN and Salvadorans fleeing from the
Salvadoran Army.  The FMLN has conducted forced recruitment in some areas
of El Salvador.  This is a fact.
     I do not condemn the URNG, the FMLN, the FSLN or Sendero Luminoso.  In
******************************************************************
each case, these guerilla groups are a much more humane alternative to the
******************************************************************
power structure against which they have fought, are fighting and will fight
against in the future.
     I maintain my position against your decision to drop MIM/Sendero
postings.  Banning information is just another form of censorship.
                                -- Carolyn Ellis Gonzalez