HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ph@ssd.kodak.com (Pete Hoch 253-1985)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Milk is dangerous?
Summary: Good food / bad food
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:46:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Oct2.164613.28450
Organization: Eastman Kodak

In article <2OCT92.15151518@nerus.pfc.mit.edu> mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu writes:
>In a previous article, blair@salem.intel.com (Guy Blair) wrote:
 
>> I heard a TV News report last night that after you are 1 year old,
>> milk is quite unhealthy.  One report said, what do you expect, it 
>> is designed for calves?  What's the story here?

>> Dr. Guy

>Does that mean that we should only eat foods that are designed for us?
>Can someone please list them for me?  Thanks.
>
>Mark

Here is a partial list.

Any and all fruits and vegetables.

Red Meat:  Clean   (do eat)     Beef, lamb, mutton, veal
           Unclean (don't eat)  Pork, dog, cat, horse, mule

Wild Game: Clean   (do eat)     Buffalo, caribou, deer, elk, moose
           Unclean (don't eat)  Armadillo, bear, beaver, muskrat,
                                opossum, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel,
                                wild boar, woodchuck

Poultry/   Clean   (do eat)     Capon, chicken, Corninsh hen, dove,
Game Birds                      partridge, pheasant, pigeon, quail,
                                snipe, turkey
           Unclean (don't eat)  Eagle, falcon, goose


This is a partial list from "Eat, Drink, & Be Healthy!" by Dr. Ted
and Sharon Broer.  Their bibliography contains 32 books, so I will
not list them all.  However I believe the above list comes from
portions of the Holy Bible, King James Version.

Pete Hoch

-- 
Pete Hoch
Color Systems ISPD. 5/6/HE   | Internet:   ph@ssd.kodak.com
Eastman Kodak Co. 	     | Applelink:  Pete
Rochester, NY 14650          | Phone Mail: 716-253-1985
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin)
Subject: Re: Cooking/Heating Protein--Last Beating of A Dead Horse??
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 17:39:12 GMT

In article <lq_p=wc@lynx.unm.edu> bhjelle@carina.unm.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.133647.24@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jil@donuts0.uucp (Jamie Lubin) writes:
>>
>>
>>However, I did get the following from Diet And Disease by E. Cheraskin, M.D.,
>>D.M.D., W.M. Ringsdorf, Jr., D.M.D., J.W. Clark, D.D.S.:
>>
>>(p. 22) Although not usually recognized, considerable protein destruction takes
>>place as foods are heated.
>
>"Protein destruction" is a vague and meaningless term. It would be very
>unusual to find a term like this in a reputable science text.
>
>[references to unrelated articles deleted]

The 3 references listed (British Journal Of Nutrition, Journal Of Food
Science & Journal Of The American Dietetic Association) were related in
that they were the source of the above statement.  I don't know if this is
a matter of semantics ("protein destruction"), but are these scientific
journals considered "reputable?"

>>This has been underscored by an editorial in Nutrition Reviews.  It has been
>>postulated the dry heat processing of proteins produces a new lysine linkage
>>which is either not digestable by enzymes or is so slowly digested that lysine
>>enters the bloodstream too late to participate with the rest of the assimilated
>>amino acids in tissue formation.  More severe heat damage to proteins results
>>when moist heat is used.  When reducing sugars (e.g. glucose) are present true
>>destruction of amino acids has been repeatedly corrorborated.  This destruction
>>may account for a loss of 50% of the lysine, arginine, tryptophane & histidine
>>content.
>
>If you live in a first-world country, even if the above is true,
>you will hardly develop malnutrition as a result of dietary deficiency
>of the above amino acids. It just doesn't seem to happen, presumably
>because most people in affluent countries eat several times more
>protein than they really need.
 
I didn't think they were referring to kwashiorkor.

>When chemists wish to break down proteins for determination of the
>amino acid composition of same, they boil the protein in 6M HCl
>(1:1 dilution of a very strong acid) overnight. This hydrolyzes the
>peptide bonds but leaves most side-chains in good shape. 1 or 2
>of the amino acids are partially hydrolyzed by this treatment (I think
>Serine loss is a common problem). But actual destruction of the
>amino acids is a small enough problems that useful, quantitative
>data about amino acide composition can usually be obtained after
>this harsh treatment.
>
>>Present status of heat-processing damage to protein foods.  Nutrit. Rev. 8:
>>#7, 193-196, July 1950.
>
>It seems to me that problems postulated in 1950 would probably
>be resolved by now, especially given that relatively simple
>chemical tests could prove or disprove the alleged problem.
 
I realize that all but this journal article were from the 60s, but has any of
this been refuted??

Brian, as an aside, do you know Dave Cochran at UNM??
From: beynonrj@uxb.liv.ac.uk (Dr. R.J. Beynon)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Incontinence
Date: 29 Sep 92 07:39:17 GMT
Organization: The University of Liverpool
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Timothy Freeman:

: Have you considered a shortage of various B vitamins?  They tend to
: get used up by stress, and deficiencies of some of them cause strange
: uncontrollable body odor.  I even read this somewhere, once, although
: I don't remember where.  It should be easy to find a book describing
: the symptoms of various vitamin deficiencies and see if I remembered
: it right.
: --
Timothy - what do you mean 'vitamins get used up by stress' ?
for water-soluble B vitamins it is more likely that intake is
reduced, which, when combined with normal metabolism and excretion of products
leads to a marginal deficiency. 

We all 'use up' vitamins - we excrete the vitamin, or a metabolic product
of it, in amounts that match the amount we need  every day. For example,
your body has about 250mg of vitamin B6, in its various forms, and you
need about 2mg every day, excreting 2mg of the inactive product (pyridoxic
acid).

But don't imagine that this 250mg is available to you - it is tied up with
protein to form active enzymes. Thus, when intake < excretion, you
quickly deplete the enzymes of the active form of the vitamin, and this
is what is meant by a vitamin deficiency.

But stress cannot 'use up' vitamins - only dietary imbalance, and
maybe some dietary excesses can do that (e.g. B6 needs increase on
a high protein diet).

Rob Beynon, Biochemistry Dept, Liverpool University
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: A. Satish Pai <Pai-Satish@CS.Yale.Edu> 
Subject: Antibiotics/hormones/toxins. And Iron. [Was Re: Re: Vegetarian diets]
Originator: pai@opal.CS.Yale.Edu
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven CT 06520, USA
	<1992Sep25.164313.7088@iscsvax.uni.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:59:59 GMT


>>> "MH" == Mary Howard <howard@iscsvax.uni.edu> writes:

MH> Most meat contains antibiotics and hormones. Has anyone done any studies as
MH> to the long-term effects of eating meat from livestock who have been given
MH> large amounts of antibiotics and hormones?  I know that there are some
MH> problems in taking antibiotics in that one builds up a tolerance to them,
MH> and antibiotics given for an illness would then be less effective.

I'd like to know about this too. Also, does anyone have any information on how
this risk compares to the risk from the pesticides and other toxins that will
be present in vegetables anyway? (By the way, wouldn't most hormones get
digested before being absorbed? And do hormones that affect animals affect
humans in the same way?)

About organically-grown plants, I heard this interesting claim that they tend
to have lots more toxins that they produce in their bodies to protect
themselves from pests and infection since they no longer have the benefit of
pesticides. Is this true? I.e. is the most healthy lettuce in an organic patch
also the one that's loaded with the most poisons? 

Is it worth worrying about these things at all? How do these "threats" compare
to the ill-effects of breathing urban smog, for example? Any studies on this?
Any back-of-the-envelope estimates?? 

One last question. Some years ago I came across some article (for the life of
me I can't remember where, though) that claimed that the belief that green
leafy vegetables have a lot of iron is really erroneous. It was said that the
error was due to a misplaced decimal point in some early studies. Does anyone
know about this? Have people been stuffing themselves with spinach without
getting anything out of it? :-) :-) 

-Satish


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: Pai-Satish@CS.Yale.Edu                       | A. Satish Pai
UUCP:     ...!{uunet,harvard,decvax,ucbvax}!yale!pai   |
Bitnet:   Pai@YaleCS                                   | +1 203 432 1217 [Off.]
Mail:     Box 2158, Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520  | +1 203 776 7069 [Res.]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Milk is dangerous?
Date: 5 Oct 92 11:26:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: pegasus.1992Oct5.112638.14059
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu

>>Does that mean that we should only eat foods that are designed for us?
>>Can someone please list them for me?  Thanks.
>>
>>Mark
>
>Here is a partial list.
>
>Any and all fruits and vegetables.
>
>Red Meat:  Clean   (do eat)     Beef, lamb, mutton, veal
>           Unclean (don't eat)  Pork, dog, cat, horse, mule
>
>Wild Game: Clean   (do eat)     Buffalo, caribou, deer, elk, moose
>           Unclean (don't eat)  Armadillo, bear, beaver, muskrat,
>                                opossum, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel,
>                                wild boar, woodchuck
>
>Poultry/   Clean   (do eat)     Capon, chicken, Corninsh hen, dove,
>Game Birds                      partridge, pheasant, pigeon, quail,
>                                snipe, turkey
>           Unclean (don't eat)  Eagle, falcon, goose
>
>
>This is a partial list from "Eat, Drink, & Be Healthy!" by Dr. Ted
>and Sharon Broer.  Their bibliography contains 32 books, so I will
>not list them all.  However I believe the above list comes from
>portions of the Holy Bible, King James Version.
>
>Pete Hoch


I would never have guessed that someone would post a serious reply
to that question.  Whew!


-- 
Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,alt.support.diet
From: mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu
Subject: RE: FIT FOR LIFE
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 10:44:31 GMT

In a previous article, wentzell@ace.acadiau.ca (LEEANN WENTZELL) wrote:
> 
>I tried FFL. After one week of "proper" food combining I began experiencing 
>nausea, fatique, and dizziness. I don't eat much fruit (except bananas) - I 
>prefer canned to fresh. Fresh fruit upsets my stomach, and seems to cause 
>digestive problems for days, so I avoid it as much as possible. Both my 
>mother and sister also tried this plan with similar results. My daughter 
>also does not like fresh fruit, but devours canned. Could there be a genetic 
>component here? Could we be missing an enzyme which helps digest fresh 
>fruit (maybe the heating component of canning destroys something in the 
>fruit?)
> 

The most obvious reason would be that fresh fruit contains skin while canned
does not.  It's either the fact that the skin is mostly fiber which could be
irritating you, especially if you say it causes problems for days.
I don't eat the skin for that reason and also because of what might be on the
skin, I.e. wax, pesticides, fungus, etc.  Besides, it doesn't taste that good!

Or it could be that you simply are not picking ripe fruit.  Most fruit these
days are not ripe in the store for shipping reasons.  Try waiting until the
fruit is nice and ripe, and it will taste better since it will have more
sugar content.  That is probably why your daughter loves canned!  Canned is
sweetened with either sugar, fructose, or fruit juices.  I find most of the
canned fruit very soft also.  I'm told that putting an apple in with other
fruit will cause the other fruit to ripen quicker (especially if placed in a
plastic bag.)  These days, however, I'm noticing that the price of fresh fruit
almost costs more than canned, except in peak season for that fruit, so I have
been eating more canned myself (horrors!)

Mark
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Subject: The silence is deafening
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 17:16:18 GMT

Wow.  I heard on NPR last night about the controversy over milk consumption
(by humans, not by calves), featuring comments by Dr. Spock and by others
on both sides of the issue.  The report had all the flame-words:  PCRM, milk,
calcium, "for calves, not for humans," etc., etc.  I see it made the cover
of USA Today.  I was SO looking forward this morning to a heated flame war
on this topic.

Needless to say, I'm disappointed.  Being an optimist, I'll assume that
all parties are busy amassing voluminous references, thinly-veiled abusive
comments, non-sequitors, and [non-]scientific reasoning, to be unleashed
in a hail of fury will leave me gasping for air.

I can hardly wait.
From: tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Incontinence
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:49:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: U.TSF.92Sep28094940
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: tsf@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1992Sep28.025738.19723@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> soula@vifp.monash.edu.au (Stella Rowan) writes:

   My mother's friend who is an obese lady in her early forties
   has a distinguishable odour.  She lives alone.  She is prone to stress 
   and binges on food.  

Have you considered a shortage of various B vitamins?  They tend to
get used up by stress, and deficiencies of some of them cause strange
uncontrollable body odor.  I even read this somewhere, once, although
I don't remember where.  It should be easy to find a book describing
the symptoms of various vitamin deficiencies and see if I remembered
it right.
--
Tim Freeman <tsf@cs.cmu.edu>    CompuServe ID 71045,2267 checked occasionally.
When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun.
Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all.
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Milk v/s Soymilk
Date: 1 Oct 92 09:52:04 -0500
Followup-To: sci.med.nutrition
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Sep30.182528.16852@njitgw.njit.edu>, sudesh@utkal.njit.edu (T. J. Sudesh) writes:
> 
>     Hi,
> 	Just a few days ago someone had posted about "D-West soymilk" and its
> 	"goodness".But the gentleman failed to mention about its availibility.
> 	I tried everywhere, but in vain.People at "shoprite"/"Foodtown" have 
> 	never even heard of such a product.Could someone kindly elucidate on 
> 	its availibility ?
> 				Also where does it stand when compared with
> 	our goodold Milk ? I mean does it have the same amount of 								          proteins/vitamins/fat 
> 	minerals etc and what about their "Bioavailibility".I personally cannot
> 	drink milk as I seem to be allergic to the same, so an equivalent sub 
> 	would be just great.
> 					Looking forward to an interesting 
> 								discussion.
> 
> 							warm regards,
> 								sudesh.


I don't know the brand you mentioned, but I can tell you about 
the nutritional content of soymilk.

One of the most popular brands of soymilk is Westsoy, made by Westbrae
Foods, Commerce, CA 90040. It comes in plain, vanilla, and chocolate
flavors. It is packed in quart containers. The containers do not need
refrigeration until opened, and cost about $2.50 a carton. If you can't
find it locally, you might try calling Westbrae Foods directly. They
can either tell you where to get it, or you can purchase an entire case
(24 cartons) via mail order. It keeps for about 6 months if not opened. 

The ingredient list is:

Filtered water, whole organic soybeans, brown rice, water, vanilla, 
tricalcium phosphate, organic expeller pressed canola oil, sea salt, 
carageenan, vitamin A palmitate, vitamin D2, Riboflaven (B2).

The nutritional breakdown is:

Serving size: 8 oz. 
Calories: 150
Protein: 6 grams
Carbohydrate: 20 grams
Fat: 5 grams
Percent calories from fat: 30
Polyunsaturated fat: 3 grams
Saturated fat: 1 gram
Sodium: 120 mg
Potassium: 265 mg

Percent of USDA Recommended Daily Allowances:
Protein : 10    Vitamin A: 10    Vitamin C: 2
Vitamin D2: 25  Thiamin: 10      Riboflavin : 25 
Niacin: 6       Calcium: 30      Iron: 10  
Phosphorous: 25 Magnesium: 10


I believe that the nutritional content of this soymilk is comparable
to that of milk, though the calcium content is due to supplementation. 

-Mary Howard
From: dorham_r@lrc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Have you heard of this?????
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:17:00 GMT
Organization: Lenoir-Rhyne College, Hickory, NC

Hello Friends,

I would like to know if anyone has heard of chelation therapy.  If
anyone has, could you tell me something about it?  Thanks!!!!

Ricky
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: bhjelle@carina.unm.edu ()
Subject: Re: Cooking/Heating Protein--Last Beating of A Dead Horse??
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:01:52 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: na

In article <1992Sep28.133647.24@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jil@donuts0.uucp (Jamie Lubin) writes:
>
>
>However, I did get the following from Diet And Disease by E. Cheraskin, M.D.,
>D.M.D., W.M. Ringsdorf, Jr., D.M.D., J.W. Clark, D.D.S.:
>
>(p. 22) Although not usually recognized, considerable protein destruction takes
>place as foods are heated.

"Protein destruction" is a vague and meaningless term. It would be very
unusual to find a term like this in a reputable science text.

[references to unrelated articles deleted]
>
>This has been underscored by an editorial in Nutrition Reviews.  It has been
>postulated the dry heat processing of proteins produces a new lysine linkage
>which is either not digestable by enzymes or is so slowly digested that lysine
>enters the bloodstream too late to participate with the rest of the assimilated
>amino acids in tissue formation.  More severe heat damage to proteins results
>when moist heat is used.  When reducing sugars (e.g. glucose) are present true
>destruction of amino acids has been repeatedly corrorborated.  This destruction
>may account for a loss of 50% of the lysine, arginine, tryptophane & histidine
>content.

If you live in a first-world country, even if the above is true,
you will hardly develop malnutrition as a result of dietary deficiency
of the above amino acids. It just doesn't seem to happen, presumably
because most people in affluent countries eat several times more
protein than they really need.

When chemists wish to break down proteins for determination of the
amino acid composition of same, they boil the protein in 6M HCl
(1:1 dilution of a very strong acid) overnight. This hydrolyzes the
peptide bonds but leaves most side-chains in good shape. 1 or 2
of the amino acids are partially hydrolyzed by this treatment (I think
Serine loss is a common problem). But actual destruction of the
amino acids is a small enough problems that useful, quantitative
data about amino acide composition can usually be obtained after
this harsh treatment.

>Present status of heat-processing damage to protein foods.  Nutrit. Rev. 8:
>#7, 193-196, July 1950.

It seems to me that problems postulated in 1950 would probably
be resolved by now, especially given that relatively simple
chemical tests could prove or disprove the alleged problem.

Brian
From: tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:51:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Vitamins:  How to Get the Right Mix?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition

> > Also--I have bad eyesight.  A common "urban legend" is that if I 
> > were to consume a megadose of Vitamin A every day for a long
> > period, my eyesight would improve.  But, large doses of A can be
> > toxic, I've heard...  How much A is toxic?  And would it help?
> This urban legend was started during WW2 as a cover story to explain
> how the British fighter pilots were apparently able to see in the dark
> -- they were using radar. And hey! -- did you ever see a rabbit
> wearing glasses? It was hoped the Germans would start eating carrots
> instead of checking out radar technology. Alas, they weren't that
> gullible :-)
> Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085

As usual with ULs, there is a grain of truth in there somewhere. In this case 
a deficiency of vitamin A can cause blindness. That is, of course, a long way
from saying that vitamin A can improve sight (I am always amazed that so
many people cannot rcognise this elementary logical "fallacy").

But then eating a polar bear's liver can reportedly kill you from an overdose
of vitamin A. So go easy on the supplements...
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Vegetarian diets
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:05:31 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)

In article <06#pj_l.rfelix@netcom.com>, rfelix@netcom (Robbie Felix) writes:
>The stats I hear on poultry (for example) are that an extremely high
>percentage is contaminated with salmonella.

Stick to kosher poultry.  It's cool-water plucked, unlike regular poultry
which is hot-water plucked.  Salmonella grows and spreads quickly in the
latter situation.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition