From: lseltzer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Linda A. Seltzer)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Hiring quotas and faculty positions (Repost #2)
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:34:03 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Sep11.115309.22499@aber.ac.uk> hcw0@aber.ac.uk (Howard Charles Windsor) writes:
>As of yet I am still a student and have not yet had to apply for posts but as 
>far as I see it, what should happen is that the job should be given on the 
>basis of ability. If there has been discrimination in the past against minority
>groups (which I am quite prepared to believe), should a lower standard 
>applicant be given the job when there is a more suitable applicant who happens 
>to be of the wrong race. That is racism as well .

It's possible to measure ability and achievment up to a certain point.
But please remember that women suffer stresses that men don't experience
which affect the perceptions of their ability.  I would like to give
some examples.

A woman enters graduate school with training in area X.  She takes
the seminar from a professor in that field.  The professor invites
her to his house to borrow a book, and he answers the door wearing
nothing but a bathrobe.  Obviously the woman will try to choose
another professor as her adviser, and she won't try to pursue guidance
in field X under the professor who acted wrongly.  In most cases
the woman will change areas.  Making a complaint against the professor
won't improve her ability to receive mentoring anyway.  Five years later
the woman goes on the job market and she wants an opportunity to do more
work in field X.  On paper it looks like she hasn't done as much as the
men who took the seminar.  In reality, she is just as dedicated and hasn't
been given an equal chance.

Another example.  It happens often that, in order to avoid scenes like
the one described above, women students will gravitate to a professor
who is very traditional and follows the rules, the man who goes to
church on Sunday and is always a proper gentleman.  When these women
go out on the job market they are perceived as not being innovative
because they chose an adviser whose approaches are traditional.  On
paper it looks as though she was less innovative, but that may not
really be the case.

Another example.  A professor will spend more time with male students.
SOmetimes the man is doing this for reasons he considers honorable -
he doesn't want to create even the appearance of being a flirt or
a harrasser, so he just avoids the women students.  Again, on paper,
the male student has received the teaching assistantships and
the most guidance, even though the professors weren't doing anything
"wrong".

Another example.  It's too common for women to be judged by her looks.
At another school a talented woman was told she could not go on for
a Ph.D., but her grades and performance were equal to the men's.
The real problem was that she came from a small town, was quite
overweight, and didn't make a good "appearance."  I have heard
women professors say that when women faculty come for an interview,
there is a lot of talk about their appearance - to "schoolmarmish",
for example.  Unfortunately male professors often give more
opportunities to the women who present a cute, perky image and
the women who may be less beautiful and who are more clumsy are
ignored.  This shows up in the fellowships and awards part of
the application.

Last, I think that it affects a woman's performance when she goes
to graduate school and doesn't feel accepted and supported.  

I want to say one last thing about perceptions of achievement and
ability.  When I went to Caltech there were groups of men in
my department who were cheating on take-home exams, i.e. they
were collaborating.  On the surface it looked as though I was
achieving less, but in reality I refused to participate in what
they were doing.  There is another side to this issue.  If
teamwork were permitted and encouraged, as it is in a company,
then colaboration wouldn't be called cheating and everyone
could freely participate.  The whole issue of teamwork,
collaboration, and cheating affects achievement and the perception
of achievement.

So my point is - don't be so quick to assume that the woman is
really an inferior candidate.  All qualified candidates have to
be examined very seriously to try to ascertain their real
abilities and achivements.
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers