From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Rich men and Heaven
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:38:22 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <ksand-081092215236@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
|In article <70497@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard
|Pitts) wrote:
|> |It refers to this man of noble birth. NOWHERE does it mention the
|> |word Jesus. If this was the case, the last sentence would say,
|> |'Put this money to work, he said, 'Until Jesus comes back'. Clearly
|> |the 'I' refers to the noble man. Anything else is pure speculation
|> |that Jesus would not like to happen.
|> 
|> What is the purpose of the parable - look at the introduction of it
|> and tell us.
|
|I looked,and Jesus *didn't* say it was a parable of himself. You could
|check yourself. If you insist this is the case, then this is your
|own private speculation, *not* based on the Bible. Feel free to speculate,
|but don't misuse the Bible, thanks.

Again, in your opinion, what was the purpose of the parable????

|> |This is not stated in the Bible. Could we please use the Bible instead
|> |of private speculation, it would help a lot if we used a reference
|> |instead of relying on outside speculation that may or may not be true,
|> |thanks? I think we both agree that the Bible should contain the truth,
|> |and not private speculation.
|> 
|> I thought you were familar with the Bible, sorry.
|
|It seems I'm more familiar with it than a true blue Christian, which
|is really astounding...

Oh.

|>    John 1:1   In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
|>       the Word was God.
|>       John 1:2   He was with God in the beginning.
|>    John 1:3   Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made
|>       that has been made.
|
|So what has this to do with the earlier statements you made that showed
|that Jesus would come back???

It had to do with him being the noble man in the parable.  He was God
made flesh - (God would be considered noble, correct?)  Much less in 
Luke 2:10-11 (the parable was in Luke 19) the angel said that the baby
just born in the city of David (Jerusalem) was Christ (the Anointed One,
the Messiah, the Savior) the Lord - again another point to Jesus being
a noble man. Here are some more verses to Jesus being the king:

   Luke 19:35   They brought it to Jesus, threw their cloaks on the colt and
      put Jesus on it.
   Luke 19:36   As he went along, people spread their cloaks on the road.
   Luke 19:37   When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount
      of Olives, the whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in
      loud voices for all the miracles they had seen:
   Luke 19:38   "Blessed is the KING who comes in the name of the Lord!"
      "Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!"

   Luke 23:3   So Pilate asked Jesus, "Are you the KING of the Jews?" "Yes, it
      is as you say," Jesus replied.


|> |So faith implies good imagination, eh? Maybe I'm a closet Christian,
|> |I do enjoy fantasy.
|> 
|> No faith is trust/belief - the message is simple.  Jesus is God and
|> came to earth as a man - he lived, died, was resurrected, and ascended
|> to the Father in heaven, from which he came.  He is returning.
|> His death paved the way [and paid the way] for all to have access to
|> the Father.
|
|It seems you need to make all kinds of wishful connections and 
|assumtions, and twist the word of Jesus to suit your doctrines,
|which I find is a sad situation....

Could it be I have the Spirit and understand some of these things?
I didn't use to have the understanding and enlightenment I have now.
When I submitted my will to that of God and allowed the Holy Spirit
to have control of my life, the scriptures opened up to me!

|> |The original Christians, that waited for the appearance of Jesus
|> |and the final days 'during their lifetime'. It didn't happen, and
|> |it was a big blow for the original Christian church. 
|> 
|> I wait today - we are to wait and expectantly at that.
|
|I guess you also belong to the generation of the disciples, maybe
|you are 2000 years old?

Every Christian is suppose to wait expectantly.  The generation thing
is not something I understand.

|> It seems you don't want to hear that Jesus wasn't coming back within the
|> lifetime of the people.  Paul tells about those who have died and 
|> encourages us not to grieve like those with no hope, for those who died
|> in Christ will return with him and their bodies will be raised. (1 Thess 4)
|
|It also seems when there's not relevant information, Paul is the one
|that clarifies and justifies all kinds of problematic cases. This is
|also an intersting observation, and it clearly shows that my own
|theory that Paul is the originator of modern Christianity -- not Jesus,
|is maybe valid.

Why did Paul preach Jesus as Lord and himself (Paul) as a servant?
Why did a zealous attacker of Christianity turn to Christianity, himself?

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
                        -|-  |  -|-
                         |   |   |