From: mtressle@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (IM Overlord)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Interview with Front Line Assembly
Date: 20 Nov 92 01:59:15 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana


If this doesn't come out right, mail me and I'll send you a slightly different
version.
Enjoy....


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Interview with Bill Leeb of Front Line Assembly Live on WCRD (540 AM - Muncie
Indiana), March 19, 1992 by Michael Tressler. 

ME= Michael Tressler
BL= Bill Leeb

Approximate interview length: 40 minutes.

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ME: You said in B-Side Magazine that "_Caustic_Grip_ is the first record 
that I am really happy with.  From front to back to back cover to the whole 
theme of this record, this is the first one that I can say this is what 
Front Line is all about."

BL: Right, Yeah.

ME: Do You have the same attitude about _Tactical_Neural_Implant_?

BL: Yeah I do, except we definitely tried to avoid making the same record 
twice. I think we really tried to change this one up with having a lot more 
variations and trying more to do real song structures rather than just real
heavy grooves, and I think we pretty well achieved that.

ME: I sense more use of sampling on this album.

BL: Yeah definitely. We even like tried to work more with layering like 
different rhythm patterns and drum loops and what have you. Yeah I think we 
changed it up quite a bit.

	To me in some ways this record was a lot harder to write because 
changing it up and actually trying to come up with melodies and doing sample 
layering - there's a lot of songs where there's - you can't hear everything 
because we put a lot of layer upon layer and stuff just to try to make it 
really sound like...try and identify with our own sound and things like that.

ME: That's one thing I've noticed abuot Front Line songs. On first listen 
it's difficult to pick up everything that's going on, you have to listen to 
it a couple of times to catch on to everything.

BL: Oh yeah, we spend a lot of time using major sampler memory.  We load up 
the songs with a lot of different things because we get bored really quick 
keeping songs really simple and clean and I guess for some people that's 
their style, but I think our style has always been to make it as complex as 
we can with sounds and frequencies and what have you.

ME: What is your best source for samples?

BL: Probably movies. We don't really sample alot of CD's. By now we have a 
huge source of drum sounds and things like that. We'll do the odd thing if 
it really catches my ear, or something, but mostly it's just weird movies 
and things like that because I'm a real movie fan. Everytime I watch a movie 
I usually tape it.

ME: So What movies have you seen lately?

BL: I saw one a couple days ago, but I can't remember the title. I thought 
Naked Lunch was a pretty good movie. Body Parts, I didn't mind that.

ME: So do you go for the Horror thing, or just anything that seems 
interesting?

BL: I like any kind of movie that's actually quite good. I do prefer weird 
movies, movies with an edge. Horror ones are fun too. I like to watch almost 
anything that's interesting.

ME: Have you had much time lately to just relax?

BL: We did the Intermix record, and then the Front Line one, and now we're 
doing the whole promo tour thing and doing the same thing in Europe. When we 
come back we have to put the live show together, so there haven't been very 
many free days.

ME: So you will be touring with this album?

BL: Oh yeah.

ME: You mentioned Intermix earlier. That was your attempt at the House/Dance 
scene?

BL: Yeah, it was sort of like a parody. We tried to like do it, but use what 
we think we would want it to sound like, still using weird sounds in the 
back and scrapings and silly samples. Sort of a dubby kind of thing at times 
without being real, real obvious. We were really surprised at how much 
positive response we got from that. They even offered us a tour with 808 
State with that album.

ME: That would have been a good pairing, because when people ask me to 
describe the album, I usually mention 808 State.

BL: Right, Yeah. That was probably the most fun record I've ever done 
because we were just doing it and going "Oh my God, this sure doesn't sound 
like what we would do with the Front Line kind of thing." And that was the 
fun part of it. We didn't worry about it. I actually quite like the record. 
I think it came out pretty good. I'm surprised at how many people that  don't 
listen to Front Line actually listen to this Intermix. It has a whole other 
side of people listening to it, which is good for us because it just gives 
us more exposure as well.

ME: So when you're writing, how do you know which song gets filed away as a 
Front Line song, or a Delirium song, or whatever?

BL: I think it becomes pretty clear when you're halfway through it. You can 
already go "This definitely doesn't sound like it would fit into this category",
or vice versa." The nature of the beast usually shows itself pretty quick.

ME: Will there be another Intermix, or is this just a one-off thing?

BL: We'll probably do another one because the record company has already 
said they want another one. In Europe it's apparently doing really well, so 
I guess they want another. When we have time sometime we'll do another one 
and try to make it as current sounding depending on what type of music is 
sort of big.

ME: What about Delirium? I heard Edward Ka-Spel was supposed to have sung on 
the new one.

BL: I've done that almost since the beginning of Front Line. Edward was 
supposed to sing on a few songs. As he was supposed to do it, they were just 
getting ready to go on tour and their guitar player died last summer, so 
when that happened that was basically the end of that at the time. I needed 
to have the record out because they've been waiting for a while so it's just 
going to have to be some other time I guess. 

ME: So you're still looking to work with him?

BL: Yeah, I think at one point when he has time, because he always seems to 
be really busy too. 

ME: It seems like he shows up everywhere.

BL: Yeah, so it's really hard sometimes to just to put aside time. There's 
lots of time to do something like that.

ME: Why the re-releases of _State_of_Mind_ and _The_Initial_Command_?

BL: That didn't have anything ot do with me, but I guess they're gonna 
rerelease it. Those are kind of like novelty things. Some people are like 
me, I'm a real collector of certain things. I buy things even if I don't 
listen to them, just to have them.

ME: Do you ever listen to your older things?

BL: Not very often. There's so many new things. I always try and listen to new 
things to build up my ideas and my creativity and stuff like that. I find 
listening to old stuff doesn't give me that anymore.

ME: So what new things are you listening to?

BL: I like a few of the new, um, there's some good new techno kicking around 
like there's some of that rave music that's pretty good. A few rap artists. 
There's a pile of stuff.

Me: What's the story behind Mutual Mortuary?    

BL: That's something me and Ogre, Nivek Ogre, did a long time ago. We did a 
whole tape. We did like nine songs, and we just never released them. They're 
pretty rare. They're just sitting there. We've had people offer to put them 
out, and tons of people have asked, but it's just one of those things. Maybe 
someday we'll release a whole box set of unreleased material. Chances are 
it'll probably never get released.

ME: How much of a member of Skinny Puppy were you actually, back in the old 
days?

BL: I was the third member. I came up with some bass lines for songs. We 
were all best of friends. That was mostly the thing, it was just the learning 
at the time. I came up with some of the bass lines for a few of the songs on 
the first couple records. I wanted to do more, so that's basically why I 
left and started Front Line.

ME: And then with cEVIN Key you did Cyberaktif.

BL: Yeah, Yeah that was a fifty-fifty thing, we did half each on that
record and I did the vocals.

ME: Have you heard what Cevin Key had to say about you in Propaganda 
magazine, Winter '91?

BL: I've never read it, I just heard that he said some weird things.

ME: Ok, to paraphrase a few lines: "And we did this project with Bill...But 
needless to say it's not something we're proud of or happy with." Cevin goes 
on to describe how you were impossible to work with in the early Puppy 
days, didn't contribute much, and were irresponsible.

BL: Well, at the time, cEVIN like, he...He actually lives in my building 
downstairs. I see him almost every couple days now. I don't know, we get on. 
I think there was a lot of, I guess, weirdness on like their part, like for 
me leaving and them thinking,  "He's using our name to get ahead for himself"
and stuff like that. I don't know. I guess things have been said, but I 
don't dwell in it, and I don't make a point ever of like going out of my way 
to, and I think that they've sort of calmed down themselves and chilled out 
about things, so you know.

ME: So you think he may have just been caught on a bad day?

BL: Well I dunno. People will be people, right. They say things and, I mean 
he said a lot of bad things about Ogre too. They were actually going to do 
their last Puppy record without Ogre at one point. So those guys don't even 
sit in the same room together, right. So if you think of it in those terms, 
and those guys are supposed to be in the same band, I guess it's sort of 
like," Gee, well what do you expect from a situation like that?" I just try 
and stay away from that and I never go on the record and say anything about 
those guys. There's no point everybody doing the same thing. I don't even 
worry about it. I think most people can decipher for themselves what they 
like and what they don't like, and the politics of the whole situation. I 
think people are smart enough themselves.

ME: Is that your same opinion about what Trent Reznor had to say about you 
in the Spin magazine article?

BL: Well, he sent me an apology three weeks before that came out. He 
probably just felt guilty because he said a pretty sort of vicious slag. So 
when I read it, I thought "Well, here we go again." Here's a guy I've never 
met, I've never said a word about, and just going off saying something like 
that, sending me the apology - I talked to Spin magazine a few days ago. 
They're basically going to print the apology, and they're also going to 
print the letter I wrote. What can I say? Again, sure I could go out slagging 
him endlessly and stuff like that. But there's just no need to. He can say 
what he wants. You know someday I'll run in to him, and then he can, if he 
has the guts then he can...

ME: Say something to your face...

BL: Say it to my face, which I know he won't. Regardless, there's so many 
people doing that kind of shit all the time, there's just no need for me 
to go around worrying about it or doing it. Again, I don't think that will 
bring us down or anything like that, and if anything, half the people that 
read it will hear our name for the first time and they'll go, "Well who the 
Hell are Front Line Assembly?" So I don't even worry about it.

ME: To switch to other things: Michael Balch left for Revolting Cocks or 
something like that?

BL: Yeah, I don't know what happened there. I know he got credit on that new 
single by Ministry "Jesus Built my Hotrod". He's got like thirty percent 
writing credits or something. I don't know, he came back to Vancouver and 
I'm not sure if he's ever going to tour with them. I don't know if he had 
a falling out or what. I don't think he's telling everybody exactly what 
happened. So I don't pry, I dunno, but it looks like he's not.

ME: So why exactly did he leave Front Line?

BL: It was kind of a weird thing, because just as we were supposed to write 
_Caustic_Grip_, he happened to be in San Francisco and Ministry needed a 
monitor man, and they fired theirs, so they asked Michael if he wanted to do 
monitors for the one gig. And he said O.K. So he did monitors for the one show
and they said "Well do you want to do the rest of the tour?" And he said 
"Yeah, OK" And at the same time we were supposed to start writing, so me and 
Rhys just started writing. We wrote the whole album _Caustic_Grip_ by the 
time they finished their tour. He came back thinking that he was gonna write 
some of the album, but at the same time he had become friends with all those 
guys and decided he wanted to be with that situation. So he came back and we 
said, "Well hey, we finished the album. We don't really need you to write 
anything." And he at the same time went "Well, actually I want to go down to 
Chicago now and hang out with those guys." So it was weird. It was sort of 
like bang-bang and that was it.

ME: And Rhys has been around since at least _State_of_Mind...

BL: Yeah, I've known him even before then. I knew him in the Skinny Puppy 
days already when he was just like, 14-15 years old.

ME: You still have intentions on a movie soundtrack career?

BL: Oh yeah, we're definitely going to do some stuff. I've got some things 
in the fire and stuff. I think we're even going to do some radio commercial 
music. We're trying to get this contract where if we do, we'll get 32 radio 
commercials which will pay really top dollar which I think would be fun to do.

ME: That would be great hearing Front Line Assembly on "old people's" 
stations.

BL: I never say never, so I'm always willing to go out there and try something.

ME: You were supposed to have worked on a film called "Chunkblower"?

BL: Yeah. They were trying to get a pretty big budget for that. They 
had the trailer made and everything, but like most films it takes a long 
time so we're just waiting on that one to see what happens with it.

ME: Which is harder to do: Instrumental things like Intermix and Delirium, 
or vocal things like Front Line and Noise Unit?

BL: Front Line is always the hardest to do.

ME: Is it because you want that to be the best?

BL: Well yeah, yeah, best in that field, you know. I mean I think all three 
are different enough that you can't really say which is the best in that type 
of thing. But yeah, we spend the most time in production and everything 
with Front Line, definitely.

ME: Fill me in on Noise Unit. How did you meet Marc Verhaeghen?

BL: Our relationship basically came around when we played in Europe the first 
time. We did a show with The Klinik in the Milky Way in Amsterdam. It was a 
really good show, and I liked what they did and we just sort of ended 
up being friends. He invited us to come to his place after the tour, in 
Belgium. He has a studio and we started just writing some songs, and Antler 
wanted to put them out. So on the way back from Belgium to London on a ferry 
I just thought of the name Noise Unit, and we just put the record out. It 
was kind of a real friendship thing. Kind of a romantic notion being abroad 
in Europe. It was just a kind of fun thing/friendship kind of deal.

ME: You've already made two Noise Unit albums. Is that the end of it, or are 
there going to be any more?

BL: Gee, who knows? Like I say, "Never say Never", so who knows? We're going 
to do like a 4 or 5 month world tour with Front Line this year, and I think 
we're probably going to go to Japan because this is our first record that 
got released in Japan. Who knows, with time permitting, it might be a while. 
It's always there if we want to.

ME: So do you have a solid definition of what Industrial Music really is? Or 
at least, what does it mean to you?

BL: To me Industrial music really was 8-10 years ago, bands that were really 
like SPK and Neubauten, or Test Dept. Bands that were ferociously banging on 
steel objects and using power drills, and cutting off animal heads. Using 
real shock tactics, dissection videos, autopsy films and stuff like that.

ME: Kinda like Skinny Puppy. (Chuckle)

BL: Yeah, sure they got influenced by that, But their stuff is more 
theatrical. I'm just talking like six Test Dept. guys keeping time without 
using tapes and their hands blistered from the steel drumsticks. That's 
industrial music. I think now it's not industrial music at all. It's 
technology orientated music that uses the best of the industrial music, the 
sampled percussion, the heaviness of the sound. I think that's as far as it 
really goes now. Otherwise, it's just like a lot of pop songs covered with 
just a few metal sounds and things like that. But the real industrial thing 
died years ago if you really wanna get specific about it.

ME: Someone pointed out to me that "Threshold" on Caustic Grip sounds highly 
influenced by Joy Division.

BL: Probably. It has elements. I mean Joy Division was easily one of my all 
time favorite bands. I was such a big fan and such an avid collector of 
theirs that there's probably a little bit of that in every song subconsciously 
without me even knowing it. I was a fan of theirs years ago but I was like a 
HUGE fan. I think subconsciously you pick up things and things stay in your 
mind, and what have you.

ME: What else did you listen to in your youth?

BL: I got into music when the punk thing started. I think the first record I 
ever bought was by the Clash was _Give_'Em_Enough_Rope_. And then I bought 
Wire, _Pink_Flag_ and then _Chairs_Missing_. I bought all the Wire records, I 
was a huge fan. And I liked the Clash. Then I got into Joy Division and a few 
other bands like that. I was really into that whole scene, I was really into 
DOA, even in Vancouver, you know like the Dead Kennedy's, and that kind of 
stuff. Then I found that started to get stagnant, and then I was into TG, 
and early Cabs stuff, and sort of that weird obscure stuff like Neubauten.

ME: More of the noise stuff.

BL: Yeah, but it wasn't just "noise" noise. I thought it was pretty well...

ME: ...structured...

BL: I thought the Neubauten stuff was always already great in the early 
days. That just sort of led into all of this stuff.

ME: And here you are now.

BL: Yeah, so you know it's strange that I used to listen to so much guitar 
music, that I never really incorporate it into that. But at the same time, I 
can't play guitar so I'm not even going to pretend. But I certainly can 
appreciate a lot of bands like that.

ME: Have you heard the new Wir(e)?

BL: Um, yeah I think so. They're totally different now. I liked the one that 
came out about 2 years ago, _Manscape_. I think they still had that sound. 
But like I said, I've changed my tastes and I think they have too.

ME: So which record label are you going to be on now?

BL: We just finished our last album for Third Mind/Roadrunner. Now we're 
basically contract free. We're talking to various different people. Third 
Mind/Roadrunner have already put in a bid for us, an offer. So we're just 
going to sit back and take the best one. 

ME: You would go to a Major Label then if they gave you the best offer?

BL: Yeah, I dunno. I really believe money isn't everything. I'd like 
Front LIne to still be around in two, three years from now. I take 
everything into account, not just the money. I really want to make sure the 
label is really into what we're doing, understands what we're doing, has 
experience in it. I wouldn't just go to anybody just because they're gonna pay 
more money, because you don't wanna sign a deal and you sit there for two 
years, the record company doesn't know what to do with your album, and then 
you die out. Money is definitely not my main source of going in that route.

ME: Artistic Freedom is way up there.

BL: Yeah, Yeah everything. The longevity of the band, everything. I take a 
lot of things into consideration.

ME: The last Delirium was just an EP. Is there another, longer one coming?

BL: We haven't done anything yet, there's just no time. Those were songs 
that I had kicking around and I thought I'd like to see them come out, so I 
gave that to Garry [Levermore, Third Mind President], basically for free. 
Just the thing to do. I'm kind of generous at times, so I don't worry about 
it. That's how those came out.

ME: Anymore Cyberaktif?

BL: I dunno, it depends. I never know with those guys. They change like the 
wind day to day. It's really hard to say. Who knows, maybe next year there 
might be another one. I don't even think that far ahead. Who knows what's 
going to happen, even with those guys. I just don't think about it. When 
they happen, they happen and that's it.

ME: Do political movements towards censorship affect you much in your 
songwriting, most notably the lyrics?

BL: I think in Canada, it's probably not so bad, but then at the same time 
they don't really get tested as much. There isn't as many things always 
coming out, there isn't that many radical groups coming from there. I think 
definitely there's been that move in America for quite some time now. In 
some ways yeah, you have to keep hoping that people are gonna constantly keep 
fighting back, because if people didn't, you'd find within ten years you 
wouldn't even have the right to breathe anymore. There's a lot of those 
extremists, you have your leftists and rightists, and it's like, yeah, 
there's always a bunch of crazy people like that out there so I think artists 
always have to struggle no matter what medium it is to hopefully keep those 
doors open.

ME: Do you know much about the whole Negativland-U2 incident?

BL: Actually, they were talking about that when we went out for drinks last 
night. I just heard that they got sued. 

ME: U2's label and publishing company just took Negativland to the cleaners 
over it, and you just can't think that Negativland would actually have much 
of an impact on U2's worldwide mass market appeal.

BL: You wouldn't think they'd even bother. But at the same time, I don't know 
what they sampled or what they used, but I mean if it was really obvious, 
especially a band like U2, people should really stay away from doing that, 
because this is what can happen.

ME: To me the funniest thing is that they also sampled Casey Kasem cursing 
up a storm. It seems to me my opinion changed more for Casey Kasem than it 
did for U2.

BL: Right. All I can say is that all that sampling and stuff there's always 
going to be trouble and controversy. All I can say is, if you're going to 
use somebody's stuff, you've got to be prepared for the worst, because you 
know Murphy's Law "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong" and five out of ten 
times that kind of shit happens. I know whether you're a big band or a small 
band, if you're gonna take the chance and somebody notices, they're gonna 
notice. I feel sorry for them, but at the same time, if somebody took our 
stuff and did that and didn't ask me, then I would feel the same way. You 
should have at least asked.

ME: So have you ever asked for permission to use a sample?

BL: No. [Laughs] No we don't use them that often [Say What?]. It could be 
funny if in a year from now we're getting sued by somebody. 9 out of 10 times 
it doesn't happen unless you become massive.

ME: Or if it's blatantly obvious.

BL: Yeah, exactly. But usually if you get big they figure, "Hey, we can make 
money from these guys." Like KLF, when they did the Abba thing.
 
ME: Yeah, they got sued and all the records had to be impounded...

BL: They paid Abba like $100,000, and at the same time it worked out well, 
because they made so much publicity and now they're like huge. It can work for 
you. You need a good record company behind you that's willing to pay a 
little bit of money at times when you do get bad publicity, because even bad 
publicity is good publicity, right? That's the way I look at it.

ME: So are you looking for any publicity stunts?

BL: No! We already got it in Spin Magazine.

ME: So that's big enough for you?

BL: Yeah that's enough. I think I'll just stay out of the limelight.

ME: What does Tactical Neural Implant mean?

BL: Basically it's the whole thing of man versus machine. Integrating into 
one.

ME: Which is a big topic on this album.

BL: Yeah, and with slightly religious, governmental overtones. And that's 
basically it. That would sum it up.

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Please send comments, questions, and general responses.

mtressle@bsu-cs.bsu.edu
mtressle@lovelace.bsu.edu
00MBTRESSLER@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu

_I_ want a piece of MEAT!