From: merchant@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: ISLAM ON ABORTION
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:09:07 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

In article <dogar.712331695@opal4>, dogar@rtsg.mot.com (Haroon H. Dogar) writes:
> gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
> 
>>In article <19664@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes:
> 
>>>I only find it puzzling that so many educated people pose indirect
>>>questions like this, since they are trivially answered depending on
>>>whether or not one believes that the unborn child/fetus is a clump of
>>>cells or a human baby.  If we are talking about a clump of cells then
>>>abortion should be restricted no more than clipping one's toenails.
>>>If, however, we are talking about a human baby, then how could any
>>>of the above justify killing the baby?  Because of the sins of others?
>>>And just because it is less than perfect?  A lot of people with
>>>``severe handicaps'' go on to have productive lives and teach us
>>>all about the true value of life.  Few of them wish that someone else
>>>had killed them in the womb.
>>>--
> 
> Dave,
> 
> There is one question that I think is valid and that is,
> "What if the life of the mother is at risk?"
> To date, the only time that I have heard a scholar say that
> it was ok was when it was understood that the child would
> probably not survive, and if the pregnancy were carried to
> term, the mother would probably not survive either.
> Still, I am not a scholar nor do I play one on TV etc.
> [I assume that the scholar viewed "it" as a human baby
> and not just a clump of cells.]
> 
> 
>>That's why the women should be given the choice of abortion. 
>>Her choice will depend on whether she considers it as a clump 
>>of cells or a life ?  Even if she considers it as a life, her 
>>decision can be altered by whether she considers it as dangerous 
>>to her own life or not. By dangerous, I mean it need not always 
>>be in terms of physical danger. It might mean ruining her 
>>whole emotional and social life which she might not want to 
>>sacrifice for the sake of another life. No one should be forced 
>>to sacrifice their own lives for the sake of another. That choice
>>should be left up to the person. 
> 
> Gopal,
> 
> "Should" according to your opinion MAY or MAY NOT agree with what
> "should" be done according to Islam--which, I believe, was the
> original poster's question. Just wanted to point that out before
> this degenerated into a pro-life/pro-choice debate. That said, :-)
> I can take your argument to ridiculous extremes: "There are people
> that I view as lower than life, and less than human [Adhvani, Shamir,
> Solarz, etc]. These people have ruined my life emotionally, physically,
> religiously, whatever. Ergo [I love this word don't you?] ergo,
> I am morally justified in "aborting" them."  Note that I am even
> making greater allowances, because I am saying that X individual
> has already ruined my life, not that he/she has the potential
> of ruining it.  Again, I am not a scholar--just leftovers from the
> logic portion of my GMAT :-) .
> 
> -hd
> 
I think taking Gopal's statement to ridiculious extremes is discrediting
his point.  First of all, not everyone is in the folds of Islam so
an answer that what Islam dictates is not the solution that others
outside the fold of Islam would agree to.  IMHO, I believe that Islam
is pro-choice because in all things it states one is responsible for their
own deeds and actions.

Gopal's statement that the decision of abortion or decision of not
aborting affects her not only physically but her emotional and
social life is affected is a very valid point. We, in Islam,
beieve in very idealistic values but practise falls short many
a time.

If circumstances were ideal, a woman would never be disrespected,
and her virtue would always be protected not only from her own
household but from all that are in the folds of Islam.  Her 
quest to abort may only arise if her life were in danger.

But since circumstances are far from ideal, what is a woman to do?

First of all, if she is raped, (whether or not it results in pregnancy),
what are the chances that the incident is overlooked and she is able 
to find happiness in a partner for life because the community
looks for idealistic situations in marriage and she is not an 
idealistic person.  The ideals of Islam would dictate that she be
the first choice in marriage because she is one of the opressed
and it is a duty and obligation on the community.

Should the situation result in pregnancy, what are the chances then.
Perhaps the woman is considered for marriage but not with a child
and not with a child resulting from a rape.  She, or even her
family may have thoughts that it be better to have aborted than
to care for the child.  The ideals of Islam dictate that it is
more sawab (sp?) to care for a child that is not your own, like your
own.  

Even circumstances where women are divorced with children, the question
arises what is to be done with the child should she reconsider remarriage.
It is suggested that the child be given to the care of the exhusband or
grandparents or ....  In other words, the woman with a child, has a 
harder time of it, let alone circumstances that involve rape where
the scars are much, much worse to carry on with.  

Insha allah, she has Allah(swt) to turn to and realize that things
occur by Allah(swt)'s will and this world is in reality an illusion.

-Rukhsana Merchant
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan