From: don@dgbt.doc.ca (Donald McLachlan)
Subject: SUMMARY: Sun clones
Keywords: LONG
Organization: The Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 22:40:51 GMT


Thanks to the many people who responded. Unfortunatly I didn't save all the mail
as much of the info was repeated.


Well I started off with good intentions and seem to have fallen short.
There are simply too many vars.

For instance ...

I found a Canadian clone "manufacturer" (Sidus) who claim they manufacture
the processor board in Edmonton. Mobius Computer Corporation in California
openly claimed they use systems made by OPUS Systems (California). So I called
OPUS, and they calim to sell boards and systems to Sidus.

With rats nests like this I give up.

There I give you the following
	- A list of Vendors at Comdex as Published in Sun World (December 91)
	- A list of Companies offering Sun clones as per Sun World (Jan 92)
	- some responses I received,
	- and a sunflash announcement posted to the sun-managers mailing list.

PS: The second list is Part one of two parts. The second will be published
    in Sun World in February.



Sun World, December 1991

DTK			40MHz 	Tera or LSI	desktop		818-810-8880 
Goldstar		40MHz	LSI		desktop		408-954-8881
Hyundai			40MHz	Tera or LSI	desktop		408-473-9200 
RDI Computer Corp	25MHz	LSI		laptop		619-558-6985
Sampo Technology Corp	40MHz	LSI		desktop		404-449-6220
Stone			40MHz	LSI		desktop		415-961-7607
Tadpole			25MHz	Cypress		laptop		512-338-4221
Tatung			40MHz	Tera or LSI	desktop		408-435-0140
TriGem			40MHz	LSI		desktop		408-970-0844
Twinhead		40MHz	Ross/Cypress	desktop		408-945-0808
Vertos			40MHz	Cypress		desktop		510-226-7299



Sun World, January 1992		(D=Desktop, L=Laptop, S=Server)

AFE Computers Ltd			804-974-7801		D
Auspex Systems				408-492-0900		?
	>From guy@auspex.com Tue Jan 21 18:42:34 1992
	>
	>"S".  We don't make workstations, and at least if I have anything to
	>say about it, we aren't ever *going* to make workstations....
Aztek Systems Technologies		415-528-6633		L
Chicony					408-336-2400		D
CCL/ITRI				011-886-35-953587	S(VME)
Compuadd Corp				800-688-6380		D
DCM					408-582-1661		D
Datatech Enterprises Co. Ltd (DTK)	818-810-8880		DS(VME)
FPS computing				503-641-3151		S
Fujitsu Ltd				408-922-9000		S?
Goldstar				408-954-8881		D
Hamilton Computervertribs		011-49-7071-7002-40	SD?
Hyundai					408-473-9200 		D
ICL					714-458-7282		S
Intellicsis				415-965-5500		D
Mars Microsystems Inc			412-934-1040		D
Meiko Ltd				415-952-9900		S
Opus systems				415-960-4040		D
Orange systems				404-632-2200		?
RDI Computer Corp			619-558-6985		L
Sidus Systems Inc			416-882-1600		D
Solarix					415-659-1544		D
Solbourne Computer Corp			303-722-3400		DS
Solflower Computer Inc			408-456-5055		D(VME)
Sparktrum Microsystems			408-428-9204
Star Technologies Inc			703-689-4400




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From datri@lovecraft.convex.com Tue Jan 14 16:17:53 1992

	We're fairly happy with our Opus 25mhz machines -- they'll even run
	Sun kernels, although a Sun kernel won't return the right hostid.
 ...
	You'll save money and/or get more if you get the machine diskless and
	with minimal memory, and buy disks and memory from third parties. 
	You'll also get far, far better warrantees.  Sun will only do 30 or 90
	days (I forget which).  Some disk manufacturers give five years, and a
	good memory vendor (like Helios) will give a *lifetime* warrantee.

 NOTE: apparently the 40MHz opus runs SunOS4.1.2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From shankar@ulysses.att.com Wed Jan 15 09:25:54 1992

	I tested Tatung's CompStations. These are basically identical to
	SparcStations, both h/w, s/w and look wise. I found absolutely
	no diff. in performance. But they have the low-end ones which
	are equivalent to SparcStation 1+ and the high end ones which
	are equivalent to the SparcStation 2 at 40Mhz. There prices
	are cheaper. I was able to negotiate a real low price as they
	are looking for a major market break thru. They come with
	Solaris 1.0 which is SunOS 4.1.2 w Open Windows. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From rlg@ida.org Fri Jan 17 14:33:17 1992

	We demoed a Tatung SS1+ clone for about 60 days.  It worked flawlessly
	and seemed to be identical to a SS1+ to the extent that we did a
	dump of the SparcOS that came with it and loaded SunOS 4.1.1 with
	DBE 1.1 and a patched kernel built on a SS2.  Everything ran like
	a champ.  Even reproduced the same bugs we found on the SS2 (:-^).
	We did heavy duty pounding (we develop software) using shell 
	scripts, C, Prolog, Sybase, Unify, and Openwindows.  Netted 
	the Tatung to our regular net of Sun 3's, 4's, and Sparcs.
	If there's any incompatibilities we didn't find them.  Tatung
	has since come out with a SS2 clone.  Prices are quite reasonable.
	I think the SS2 clone is about $10k list with 16 Meg of RAM, 
	monitor, and ~ 200 Meg of disk.  Check with the sales for exact
	figures.  Our POC is (800)659-5902, Jim Connett.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From matt@dbaix.oc.com Tue Jan 14 22:31:27 1992

	Solbourne Computer is the one I know of.  They've been best known for
	high end multiprocessor systems but they've moved down of late.
	I don't have one (yet) at work but the systems people at Univ N Texas
	say they make the Sun people look like lazy wetbacks!
	(no racial slander intended).
	
	I've got a Dataquest (Dun and Bradstreet) review of Solbourne which
	was extremely positive, commenting on how Solbourne considers after
	sales support a major portion of their marketing advantage.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From iain@solbourne.co.uk Fri Jan 17 08:20:25 1992

	Clones are based on the SPARC Compatibility Definition (SCD)
	administered by SPARC International.  This means they should all
	be able to run applications compiled on any SPARC machine.

	These boxes do not have to use the same internal architecture as
	Sun.  This means the architecture can be optimised for different
	purposes.  Our boxes are optimised for throughput and not MIPS.
	This is due to our years of experience in servers and major
	applications (you will find our audited database performance
	extremely good).  You will notice our desktop machines use a 64bit
	CPU to give a throughput edge.

	If you want more details please email ruth at this email address
	or as below.

	Ruth Glasby
	Workstations Business Manager
	Solbourne Computer (UK) Ltd
	4 Apple Walk
	Kembrey Park
	Swindon
	Wiltshire SN2 6BL

	Tel 0793 491333
	Fax 0793 488866

NOTE: I was curious about this and posted to the net it turns out that they
      have a 64 bit memory bus, so double loads/stores are improved.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From budet@enuxha.eas.asu.edu Fri Jan 17 20:27:38 1992

	We are currently investing lots of money into Solbourne.  We are mainly
	interested in their Series 5 multiprocessor machines but we do have
	several of their S4000 series which are equivalent to the SS2 from Sun.

	You can get the configuration that you specified with the exceptions
	that the current OS release is Solbourne OS/ 4.1A.1 and Open Windows
	is an additional product (available but not bundled with the OS).  We
	have found the S4000's to be a very stable product and the customer
	server to be exceptional.  I cannot comment on the price.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: dscott@ittc.wec.com (Dave Scott)

	My CompuAdd rep tells me their SS2 clone will be out any minute :-)

	>From experience, I can say that their SS1+ is an EXCELLENT clone.
	It runs SunOS 4.1.1b right out of the box...no modifications, like
	almost all the others.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From mueller@cs.unc.edu Tue Jan 21 17:01:30 1992

	There was a Byte magazine within the past year that had
	a prominent story about Sparc clones.  I don't have any
	more info on this handy, though.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                        The Florida SunFlash

     Independent Vendors and Sun Expand Base of New SPARC Technologies

SunFLASH Vol 35 #30					       November 1991 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a press announcement from SPARC International. -johnj
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
						SPARC International
						Adrienne Bachleda
						(415) 321- 8699 x238

			      tm
	Over a Dozen New SPARC   Systems Coming to Market

MENLO PARK, Calif. -- October 15, 1991 -- SPARC International reported
today that the SPARC-Compatible systems market is experiencing an
explosion of new hardware technology that will be used in more than a
dozen SPARC systems products to be announced by the end of October.
Many of these new systems will be demonstrated at the COMDEX and UNIX
Expo trade shows later this month.

Vendors supplying new independently developed technologies include
Fujitsu Microelectronics, Tera Microsystems and Weitek Corporation.
Fujitsu announced its 33-MHz and 40-MHz SPARC microprocessors and
completion chip sets in May, 1991 and expects six to ten of its
customers to bring products to market by year-end. Weitek and Tera
Microsystems announced September 24 that they have combined efforts to
provide a complete SPARCstation 2-class chip set, and expect a
comparable number of customers to announce product in the same time
frame.

Sun Announces Licensing of Competitive Hardware Technology

As part of this SPARC International press release, Sun Microsystems,
originator of the SPARC Architecture, is announcing today special
licensing relationships with three SPARC chip vendors, Fujitsu
Microelectronics, LSI Logic and Tera Microsystems. Under the
agreements, Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation (SMCC) will authorize
the three companies to resell its 40-MHz SPARC logic chip set and
SPARCstation 2 board design. Sun will also license its GX graphics
accelerator chip and board design to these same vendors. This
arrangement will allow the licensees, Fujitsu Microelectronics, LSI
Logic and Tera Microsystems to market and sell kits including these
chips and board designs to SPARC-Compa- tible system vendors. The
system vendors, in turn, will use these kits to develop and deliver
systems compatible with the 40-MHz SPARCstation 2.  Separately, SMCC
will make the GX board available for purchase by SPARC system vendors.

According to Charlie Simmons, director of strategy and business develop
ment for SMCC, "We are making these technologies available to enrich
the base of competitive hardware technologies available to SPARC system
suppliers. Our goal is to support the development of the SPARC
Compatible systems market."

As a further step to enable the SPARC Compatible systems market, SMCC,
in cooperation with Sun's operating system subsidiary SunSoft, has
authorized Sony Corporation, its supplier of CD-ROM drives, to openly
sell the drives to all SPARC-Compatible systems vendors. SPARC systems
using both the Solaris operating system and Sony's CD-ROM drives now
have the capability of using software distributed on CD-ROM. This new
technology is SunSoft's preferred distribution media, and represents
the most powerful method available for achieving software distribution
efficiencies, reducing overall computing costs and improving media
capacity, reliability and durability.

Robert W. Duncan, chairman and CEO of SPARC International, added,
"Sun's continued licensing of core SPARC technologies, and the
substantial in- vestment in SPARC technology by chip vendors, allows
systems manufacturers to concentrate resources on developing and
supporting independent distribution channels. This is clearly the most
important next step in the development of the SPARC-Compatible systems
market."

Additional SPARC Hardware Technologies Coming On Line

Beyond the products mentioned so far, several other SPARC hardware
technologies have recently been announced or are being previewed.
Cypress Semiconductor announced on September 30 its single and
multiprocessing SPARCore modules, used first in SMCC's new line of
multiprocessing servers announced on the same day.

Texas Instruments released details of its SuperSPARC superscalar micro
processor at the Hot Chips Conference in Palo Alto, California August
26th. Texas Instruments intends to provide further details in a second
SuperSPARC technology disclosure at the Microprocessor Forum, November
6-7, in Burlingame, California.

Further Information

SPARC Architecture Manual, Version 8 is available through SPARC
International aswell as through Prentice Hall and its authorized book
stores. Contact SPARC International at (415) 321-8692 for order and
delivery details, or Prentice Hall at (201) 767-5937. Government
customers can call (201) 767-5994; corporate customers (bulk orders)
should write to Special Sales at Prentice Hall, 113 Sylvan Avenue,
Englewood Cliffs, NJ 07632. The SPARC International member price for
the manual is $22.00 (U.S.); the non-member price and Pren tice Hall
price is $37.00 (U.S.)

Complete information on all the products and technologies described in
this release is available from SPARC International or other mentioned
suppliers. See attached Contact Sheet.

About SPARC International

SPARC International, located in Menlo Park, California, was founded in
February 1989 as an independent, not-for-profit corporation chartered
with directing the evolution of the SPARC microprocessor architecture
(developed by Sun Microsystems), developing the market for SPARC
Compliant products, establishing and evolving SPARC Compliance
Definitions (SCDs), and providing compliance and migration tools and
testing services to software developers, chipmanufacturers,
add-in/add-on hardware suppliers, and systems suppliers.  SPARC
International is located at 535 Middlefield Road, Menlo Park,
California, 94025. Phone: (415) 321-8692; FAX: (415) 321-8015; E-mail:
info@sparc.com.

				###

SPARC is a registered trademark of SPARC International. Products
bearing SPARC trademarks are based on an architecture developed by Sun
Microsystems, Inc.  SPARC Compatible is a trademark of SPARC
International. SPARCstation is a trademark of SPARC International,
licensed exclusively to Sun Microsystems.  SPARCore is a trademark of
SPARC International, licensed exclusively to Cypress Semiconductor.
SuperSPARC is a trademark of SPARC International, licensed exclusively
to Texas Instruments. Solaris is a trademark of Sun Microsystems, Inc.,
licensed to SunSoft, Inc.


-- 
Donald McLachlan			e-mail	don@mars.dgrc.doc.ca
Communications Research Centre / DRL	office	613-998-2845
3701 Carling Ave.,			lab	613-998-2423
Ottawa, Ontario				fax	613-990-7987

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: steve@eastend.uucp (Steven Roth)

Important note of caution re SPARC clones:

Check to see which monitor you'd be getting with the system.  Some
units are also supposed to have accelerated (GX-like) frame buffers,
although you should verify GX-compatibility, if it is indeed claimed.

For example, at UNIX Expo in NYC, I saw a number of clones.  The
laptops/ luggables usually had only 640x480 monochrome monitors.  I'm
told there is at least one unit with decent resolution, however.

The color desktop units had various monitors.  A unit by DTK, which
looked good in many ways, had a Philips color monitor which was quite
fuzzy.  I've been told that this is a characteristic of the Philips
monitors.  The Tatung SPARC clone had (of course) a Tatung monitor,
which was better than the Philips, but not as sharp as a Sony.

I'd advise taking a good, hard look at the screen before buying the
unit.  You may be able to opt for a more reliable monitor (e.g., Sony
Trinitron) at a slightly higher price.  And it probably would be worth
it.

Another clone worth considering is the CompuAdd entry.  I believe it
includes a Trinitron monitor, but you should always ask to be sure.

Various of these manufacturers will have 40MHz entries soon if they don't
already.

 --

Another note:  Some of the vendors offer a long ( >= 1 year ) warranty, 
possibly with free onsite maintenance.  This is an important extra, if
you can get it.

 --

Good luck in your clone hunting!

Steve Roth
steve@jpr.com

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
Steven Roth           New York, New York, U.S.A.          Email:  steve@jpr.com
                      "Make it so." - JLP                         eastend!steve
_______________________________________________________________________________

From: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu>

Saturn Technology in New York sells TATUNG SPARC 2 compatible and
will sell Vertos SPARC 2 as well (sells SPARC 1+) now.  There
address is
Saturn Tech.
414 West 120 St, Suite 600
New York, NY  10027
(212)662-1277

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
phill@sidus.ocunix.on.ca        (t) 613-749-1777  (f) 613-749-3850

> I found a Canadian clone "manufacturer" (Sidus) who claim they manufacture
> the processor board in Edmonton. Mobius Computer Corporation in California
> openly claimed they use systems made by OPUS Systems (California). So I called> OPUS, and they calim to sell boards and systems to Sidus.
>
> With rats nests like this I give up.
 
<Sigh.>  I wish you'd checked with me prior to posting this.
- The motherboards are manufactured by LSI in Edmonton.
- We do buy SPARC PC add-in cards from Opus (500 personal mainframe), and
  we still have stock on some LSI motherboards which were purchased from Opus.
- We have been in negotiation with LSI of late, to arrange direct purchasing.

FYI, we are a Sony OEM and would usually quote Sony monitors with our systems.
 

Take Care, Phil
--
Phil Linttell,                  Sidus Systems, Inc.
SCO Product Manager             5310 Canotek Road, Unit 16
                                Ottawa, ON. (Canada)  K1J 9N5
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sgreene@nimbus.com (Spencer Greene)


	SR> Important note of caution re SPARC clones:

	SR> Check to see which monitor you'd be getting with the system.  Some
	SR> units are also supposed to have accelerated (GX-like) frame buffers,
	SR> although you should verify GX-compatibility, if it is indeed claimed.

Actually, Sun has licensed their cg6 (aka GX) graphics card to many clonemakers,
so anyone producing this card is probably 100% compatible.  I haven't heard of
anyone yet with a "GX-like" frame buffer, but there are several accelerators
(Megatek, etc.) which are not at all GX compatible -- though if they work with
your particular software, that shouldn't matter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ymj1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Yuan M Jiang)

Someone has asked about the price for SPARC compatibles from
SATURN TECH 212-662-1277

TATUNG COMPstation

20 MHz
                            Diskless*         207 MHz HDD          340 MB HDD
15" color                      $3,790              $4,450              $5,150
19" color                      $4,690              $5,350              $6,050
25 MHz
                             Diskless         207 MHz HDD          340 MB HDD
15" color                      $4,690              $5,350              $6,050
19" color                      $5,590              $6,250              $6,950
19" color and Single                               $7,250              $7,950
slot graphic
accellerator (WX)

40 MHz
                             Diskless         207 MHz HDD          340 MB HDD
15" color and Single                               $7,850              $8,550
slot graphic
accellerator (WX)
19" color and Single                               $8,750              $9,450
slot graphic
accellerator (WX)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------