From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (ParaNet Information Service)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Phoenix Response - Part 2
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:25:09 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO


 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet Information Service
 * Originally dated 08-20-92 13:23

<..Continued from previous message>

No.  ParaNet has long questioned both of those sacred cows.  To this
point we have seen no acceptable proof for the existence of any
underground alien base near Dulce, nor have we seen adequate proof for
the existence of "Operation Majestic Twelve".  We have publicly stated
as much on many occasions.

PP> According to our sources within the intelligence community, the
PP> Dulce Scam, perpetrated by the disinformation specialists of MAJI,
PP> better known to you as Majestic Twelve with help from the CIA and
PP> NSA, is considered one of their most brilliant success stories.

But, of course, these "sources" cannot be named, and all we have to go
on is your word that they even exist.  And, unfortunately, you are
making a concerted effort to keep anyone from knowing who *you* are,
either.  Anonymous stories relayed by anonymous story tellers.  Sorry,
but that's not "evidence".

PP> We sent in experienced investigators, not amateurs, to check out
PP> the alleged Dulce Base.  Those people knew what to look for, how to
PP> look for it, how to get answers, and are not easily mislead.

We have no evidence for this except your say-so.

PP> If you do not agree with our findings, get off your posterior, go
PP> to Dulce, and check it out for yourself.

We have.

PP> In fact, we invite
PP> anybody to do the same thing.  We're sure you'll find exactly what
PP> we did ...

We didn't.

PP> You imply that you're good at asking questions -- how are you at
PP> answering them?  We have a few questions ... Would you mind sharing
PP> with all of us, everyone on the BBS's and the public, what hard
PP> evidence you have that, without question, supports the presence and
PP> validity of the Dulce Base.

Would you mind sharing what hard evidence you have that we ever said
anything of the kind?  We have never said anything in support of the
presence of a secret alien base at Dulce.  In point of fact, we
consider it extremely unlikely that any such base exists--at Dulce or
anywhere else.  That's one of the reasons we have so much trouble with
your "K-2" report, which purports to document the existence of just
such a base in California.

PP> Unless you have irrefutable
PP> evidence to present, made available for public scrutiny and
PP> evaluation, which invalidates the findings of the Phoenix Project
PP> regarding Dulce, K-2, or the Ultimate Secret, or our future
PP> reports, back off.  Either put-up or shut-up.  In other words, get
PP> off our back.

All right, challenge accepted.  Let's start with this statement from
your "Ultimate Secret" report:

PP> According to eye-witness testimony, the CIA
PP> agent in charge of this covert operation, wearing the
PP> uniform of an AF Colonel, was William C. Cooper. ...
PP> This witness testifies that this is the
PP> same William C. Cooper, who has been prominent since 1988
PP> in the civilian UFO movement.

Is this "William C. Cooper" supposed to be the famous Bill Cooper we
have all come to know so well?  Apparently so.  Unfortunately, in his
own published documents Bill Cooper gives his full name as "Milton
William Cooper", not "William C. Cooper".  Either Cooper doesn't know
his own name, or the Phoenix Project's "eye witness" doesn't know what
he's talking about.

And while we're on the subject of Bill Cooper, it is instructive to
compare some of the text of the Phoenix Project's "Ultimate Secret"
document with some of Bill Cooper's material on the same subject.
Cooper writes in his "Operation Majority--Final Release":

BC> [Project Grudge] was financed by CIA confidential
BC> funds (nonappropriated)
BC> and money from the illicit drug trade ...
BC> The purpose of Project Grudge
BC> was to collect all scientific, technological, medical and
BC> intelligence information from UFO/IAC sightings and
BC> contacts with alien life forms.  This orderly file of
BC> collected information has been used to advance the United
BC> States Space Program.

Now look at the corresponding paragraph of the Phoenix Project's
"Ultimate Secret" report:

PP> Project Aquarius was funded by CIA confidential
PP> funds (non-appropriated) ...
PP> The purpose of Project Aquarius
PP> was to collect all scientific, technological, medical and
PP> intelligence information from UFO/IAC sightings and
PP> contacts with alien lifeforms. This orderly file of
PP> collected information has been used to advance the United
PP> States' Space Program and provided the data needed to
PP> develop present stealth technology.

You don't have to be an intelligence agent to see that these two
passages are virtually identical in both content and phrasing.  Since
Cooper's statement is dated 10 January 1989, more than half a year
before the "Ultimate Secret" report's "origination" date of 4 August
1989, we seem to be left with three possibilities:  (1) Cooper was
somehow privy to the Phoenix Project's investigative results even
before they were first put to paper; or, (2) the Phoenix Project
plagiarized Cooper's writings; or (3) the Phoenix Project's own
investigations drew on the same tainted and discredited sources as
Cooper apparently did in compiling his own materials.  Whichever one
you pick, it's not a pretty picture.

But it gets worse:

PP> The basic information revealing the existence of
PP> Operation Majestic-12, the crashed UFOs, alien beings,
PP> and their secret bases within the United States, was
PP> obtained through the Freedom of Information Act from the
PP> files of the CIA, NSA, FBI, State Department, the U.S.
PP> Air Force.

This is utter nonsense, as any perusal of published FOIA documents on
UFOs would quickly reveal.  FOIA requests have forced the government to
disgorge many hundreds of pages of UFO documents over the years, but
they provide little if any support for the existence of Operation
Majestic Twelve, crashed saucers, alien beings, or secret bases.  If
the Phoenix Project is relying on already published documents as their
source for this claim (e.g., "The UFO Cover-UP" by Lawrence Fawcett and
Barry Greenwood, or "Above Top Secret" by Timothy Good), then clearly
they have not examined them very carefully.  On the other hand, if the
project really does have such explosive FOIA documents in its
possession, let's see them; their publication would do more to
establish the project's credibility than anything else it could
possibly do short of producing a live alien.

PP> PROJECT GRUDGE:  This project was originally
PP> established in 1953, by order of President Eisenhower and
PP> is under the control of the CIA, NSA, and MAJI.  Project
PP> Grudge went underground and another project, Project
PP> Sign, was established as a cover operation.   In 1960, the
PP> Project's name was changed from Project SIGN to Project
PP> Bluebook.

This is demonstrably and totally wrong.  Project Sign was established
first, in 1947, and it was under the control of the Air Force, not the
CIA.  The name was changed to Project Grudge in 1949, and to Blue Book
in 1952-- not 1960.  (For details, see "The Report on Unidentified
Flying Objects" by Edward J. Ruppelt, who headed the project from 1951
to 1953.)  The exact dates slide around a little bit depending on
whether you're talking about when the decision was made, when the order
was signed, or when the order became effective; but the differences are
on the order of months, not decades!  How could the Phoenix Project's
experienced intelligence agents make so many ludicrous errors in a
single paragraph?

<Concluded in next message..>

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