HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fsars@acad3.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: Fully-Informed Juries (Again)
Date: 19 Aug 92 06:37:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <1992Aug19.021602.13504@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>, jfb200@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (joseph.f.baugher) writes:
> 
> This is a revival of the "fully-informed jury" controversy that  comes
> up  again  and  again  in misc.legal.  Recently, I was on jury duty in
> Chicago, and I noted that the oath that jurors take here  in  Illinois
> says  that  they  must  pledge to apply the letter of the law in their
> decision even if they disagree with the law.   So,  if  I  decided  to
> acquit  someone  of dealing drugs simply because I believed that drugs
> should be legalized, I would be in violation of my oath as a juror.
> 
> Comments?

You'd probably be guilty of perjury too.  During jury selection the
prosecution is bound to ask your opinion of drug laws, and if you're
against them.  He'd also probably ask you if you could find someone
guilty if he had broke the law.  If you indicated your convictions
would not allow you to do that, then the he could probably get you
dismissed from consideration on that case for cause.  
                    === Al Sparks
From: "hilary miller" <hilary.miller@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: adoption: questions
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:03:53 EST
Reply-To: "hilary miller" <hilary.miller@execnet.com>
Distribution: misc
Organization: Executive Networks Information


Juan Moran, in a message to All on 08-14-92 at 7:34pm, said:

JM>|  -- What are the requirments for adoption?
   |___________________________________________

          Adoptions are governed exclusively by state law, which means
          there are 50 different adoption laws.  Some states, like
          Connecticut, do not permit any private placement adoptions at
          all, while others, like New York, are quite liberal.  The
          potention adoptive parents will not resolve their legal
          questions on this net.  They need to consult with an attorney
          who practices in the area of family law -- preferably one
          with a large adoption practice in your state.  


   L A
 I    R        Hilary B. Miller of Greenwich, Connecticut
  H/\Y         CIS: 76040,1743
    
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #11645  There once was a [ ] from [ ] whose [ ] was
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
From: sh240031@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Rights of Exempt employees
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:44:17 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

What, if any, law(s) protect indivduals form employer abuse of exepmt
(salaried) employee's?  Is there a limit to how many hours per week
one can be required to put in?  What sort of compensation is due for continual
extended work weeks?  
			Thanks in advance,
				Carl
Newsgroups: misc.legal,rec.travel,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.canada,soc.culture.british
From:  wrf@ecse.rpi.edu (Wm Randolph Franklin)
Subject: Re: US dual citizenship info -- updated version available via FTP
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 01:59:31 GMT


In article <1992Aug12.110603.1@acad3.alaska.edu> on Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:06:03 GMT,
fsars@acad3.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks) writes:

  > In article <JIM.92Aug12132113@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk>, jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) writes:
  > > In article <1992Aug10.104127.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fsars@acad3.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks) writes:
  > > 
  > >    Isn't there a law on the books that you can't give up your citizenship
  > >    for the purpose of tax evasion?
  > > 
  > > It wouldn't be needed. Most governments use a residency qualification
  > > as the basis for income taxes, irrespective of someone's citizenship
  > > or nationality.
  > > 
  > 
  > With the United States being a notable exception.  They tax U.S.
  > citizens irregardless of where they reside, unless maybe it's Puerto
  > Rico, and I don't know how that works, exactly.  === Al Sparks

and the US now checks the tax returns of nonresidents before renewing
their passports, I've heard.


-- 
Wm. Randolph Franklin,  wrf@ecse.rpi.edu, (518) 276-6077;  Fax: -6261
ECSE Dept., 6026 JEC, Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst, Troy NY, 12180 USA
Newsgroups: misc.legal
From: kooiman@iat.holonet.net (JOHN KOOIMAN)
Subject: Forfeiture (Pittsburg Press Articles)
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 04:49:18 GMT

Hi all. I've recently re-gained access to the net, after being gone for a
while.  Anyway, I am looking for the text of the "Pittsburg Press Articles",
which were posted to this group about 1 year ago. This was a series of
articles on the abuse of power by modern law enforcement agencies and how
they have confiscated the property of many citizens, without even being
charged with a crime, or even getting a court hearing.
 
I would very much appreciate it if someone could either re-post these
articles, or at least E-mail me a copy, if they happen to still have it on
file. I find that my present co-workers don't believe me when I describe
these abuses to them, I need the actual text to help spread the word of
what our gov't is getting away with these days. Thanks in advance.
From: dmercer@oracle.com (David B. Mercer)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Airlines anti-trust class action suit
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:57:18 GMT
Distribution: misc
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, CA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.


This was just mailed to me.  I have a question at the end.

.....................AIRLINES ANTITRUST CLASS ACTION SUIT......................

There is a class action suit pending final ruling involving a number of the
major U.S. airline carriers. The lawsuit charges that during the period of
January 1, 1988 to June 30, 1992 the airline defendants violated the antitrust
laws by engaging in an unlawful conspiracy to fix prices for domestic air
travel. As a result, prices for airline tickets for such flights were higher
than they otherwise would have been.

This class action suit pertains to purchasers of tickets on American,
Continental, Delta, Midway, Northwest, Pan Am, TWA, United, and USAir for
flights on a single airline to/from a list of 34 U.S. airports.

The "ultimate purchaser" of the airline tickets is entitled to claim
reimbursement for all overcharges.  The judge is scheduled to make
a final ruling on which entity constitutes the ultimate purchaser, the
corporation reimbursing the traveler or the individual traveler, by October 19.
...


My question is, how would one make an individual claim to get back
some of this money?

---David B. Mercer
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Rights about voluntary acting
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:14:13 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

J'ai besoin d'aide (conseil) pour un probleme de droits video.
I need some help (council) for a matter of video rights.  
The English version follows.  Please note : this concerns Canadian Law.
 
Dimanche dernier, j'ai ete filme sur video par une equipe de 
production professionnelle de Toronto.  Je n'ai jamais tourne
une scene uniquement pour eux, mais ils filmaient pendant que
d'autres personnes me photographiaient.  Ils ne l'ont pas fait
a mon insu.  Dans ces scenes, j'etais habille en costume d'epoque.
 
La personne qui a organise ce tournage m'a cause un prejudice 
financier important que j'ai appris bien apres le tournage.
J'ai pense ecrire pour interdire l'utilisation de toute image
ou j'apparaissais, a moins qu'elle ne repare le prejudice financier
subi.
 
Puis-je le faire?  Y a-t-il une loi quelconque ou une reference 
(article de journal, livre?) a ce sujet?  Devrais-je absolument 
passer par un avocat?  Quelle maison de production (je n'ai pas 
remarque d'identification) de Toronto pourrait etre interesse a 
filmer des scenes pour une rencontre familial de 1500 personnes 
sans que la personne fetee (le premier Beauregard dans notre cas) 
soit quelqu'un de celebre?
 
Je pense que quelqu'un a ecrit un article sur quelque chose de 
semblable (filmer sans avoir d'autorisation ecrite).
 
Merci d'avance.
 
                                * * *
 
Last Sunday, I was filmed on video tape by a professional production
team from Toronto.  I made no scene specifically for them, but
they filmed while I was photographied by other persons.  
I knew I was filmed.  In these scenes, I was wearing old (17th
century) costume.
 
The person that organised the filming caused me an important financial 
prejudice (harm?), a lost of money that I learned after the filming.
I thought to write to forbid use of any picture where I was,
unless she compensate the financial lost.
 
Can I do that?  Is there any law or any reference (review article,
book?) about that?  Shall I use a lawyer absolutely?  Which Toronto
based production company would be interrested in this kind of
movie : a family party of 1500 persons but where the celebrated person
(the first Beauregard in our case) is not a famous person.
 
I think somewhat posted an article about something like that some
time ago (filming without written authorization).
 
Thanks in advance.
 
 
-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
Newsgroups: misc.legal,talk.environment,fl.general
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: Predatory Pricing
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:28:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Aug19.122806.17182
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <52054@dime.cs.umass.edu> yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.232940.26847@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>In article <52004@dime.cs.umass.edu> yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken) writes:
>>>See American Airlines recent win in the price war. Extensively covered
>>>in the business press.
>>
>>Is this really "predatory" pricing, though?  Or just competitive pricing
>>in a market with excess capacity?  AA was certainly pricing above marginal
>>cost -- I don't think they scheduled extra planes to make up for their
>>lower prices, they were just filling the planes they already had.
>
>Not according to the CEOs of Northeast and some other airlines.
>As I recall, some airline had the temerity to compete fairwise against
>AA on some lucrative route, and AA retaliated by dropping all fares 
>to a level which none of the airlines wanted. 

So what makes "some airline['s]" action of dropping prices "compet[ing]",
while when American drops prices its "predatory"?
-- 
             ......................................................
             ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | std disclaimers
             the university of chicago law skool, chicago, illinois
             you can't throw me to the lions -- i'm charlton heston
Newsgroups: misc.legal
From: aba@lems24lems.brown.edu (Alan B. Arehart)
Subject: Advice on Career as Patent Attorney
Keywords: Patent, Attorney, Career, Advice
Organization: Laboratory for Engineering Man/Machine Systems
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 05:37:05 GMT

I'm considering a career as a patent attorney and would be VERY
grateful to receive ANY advice from someone who is knowledgeable
of the profession.  I am a graduate student in electrical engineering
with a year's worth of work experience and a master's degree under
the belt.  I am currently working toward a Ph.D. but I am probably
three or four years from obtaining that degree.  I am seriously
thinking of finishing here with a second master's (in computer 
science) and applying to law school.  Since I don't know where
else to find the information, I'm going to ask some blunt questions
which I hope can be answered either on the net or directly to me
via e-mail (aba@lems.brown.edu).

Re: Income Information
What is the average starting salary for a patent attorney?
What is the median income (half of the patent attorneys make more,
	half of the patent attorneys make less)?
What is the top salary that the most talented or experienced
	patent attorneys might REASONABLY expect to make--
	say, earnings for patent attorneys in the 90th percentile
	in terms of income (not the super-rare exceptions)?

Re: Breaking into the Business of Patent Law
Is coming from a prestigious law school of major importance?
Do you need to go to a law school which has extensive coursework
	in patent law?
Do you even need to take any courses in patent law, or is it a 
	profession that is picked up more on the job?
Where and how do you get your first job?  That is, are there
	firms that hire graduates as patent attorneys, or are you
	on your own in terms of learning the trade and establishing
	your own business.
What is the job outlook for patent attorneys? Good? Bad?
Is the profession extremely competitive? i.e., do a few patent 
	attorneys make it big while a lot of others wipe out?

Re: Quality of Life
How many hours is a typical work week?
For any readers who are actually patent attorneys (especially with
	engineering backgrounds), do you enjoy your work? 
	or perhaps more pertinent, if you had it to do over, 
	would you still have become a patent attorney 
	or would you have stuck with engineering?

Once again, answers to any of these questions (or even ones I didn't
think to ask) will be greatly appreciated.  Thank you for your
perspective!

Alan Arehart
aba@lems.brown.edu
From: T3B@psuvm.psu.edu ( Tom Benson 814-865-4201)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Russia calling Denver
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:47:09 GMT

Several months ago a law school professor in Denver wrote
to me, after hearing of my December 1991 trip to Moscow, to
try to initiate contact with Marina Karelina at the Institute
of State and Law in Moscow. I forwarded a hard copy of the
letter to Marina.  I have only now heard from her that she has
been ill, and during that period the Denver letter was lost.
She would like to re-establish contact with the professor at
the law school in Denver as she has some leads for cooperative
research along the lines he suggested.  If you can help, please
contact me and I'll try to facilitate the connection.

Tom Benson
Edwin Erle Sparks Professor of Rhetoric
______________________________________________________________________

 Tom Benson                       | INTERNET: t3b@psuvm.psu.edu
 Dept. of Speech Communication    | BITNET:   T3B@PSUVM
 Penn State University            |
 227 Sparks Building              | FAX: 814-863-7986
 University Park, PA 16802 USA
 814-238-5277 (home); 814-865-4201 (office); 814-865-3461 (secretary)
______________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: misc.legal
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: Hate Speech Okay, says the Supreme Court
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 20:30:07 GMT

egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:

>  There is no right to committ a wrong (that's a tautology, dammitall).
[...]
>     THERE IS NEVER A RIGHT TO COMMIT A MORAL WRONG
[...]
>     THERE IS NEVER A RIGHT TO COMMIT A MORAL WRONG
[...]

Thank you for clarifying your position. I think I understand it now.

First, the alleged tautology: The word "right" has several
definitions. You have confused the one that means legally allowable
with the one what means correct.

Second, some counterexamples to the the assertion that it should never
be legally allowable to commit a moral wrong: You believe, I believe,
that voting for Bush is a moral wrong. Do you also believe then that
people should have not right to vote for Bush? Do you believe then
that it should be illegal to vote for Bush?

I believe that it is morally wrong not to send my mother a card for
her birthday; however, I also believe that not sending a card is my
right and should not be illegal. (I hope this doesn't mean I'm a
Libertarian / cryptoracists?)

I'm sure everyone can think of a million more examples where there is
a right to commit a moral wrong.

Third, John Stuart Mill and I believe that it is impossible to
determine what is and isn't a morally wrong without allowing "wrong"
speech.

[From _On Liberty_, 1859. This excerpt is quoted on page 121 of
_Freedom, Technology, and the First Amendment_ by Johnathan W. Emord.]

======================== start ==================================
[I]f any opinion is compelled to silence, that opinion may, for aught
we can certainly know, be true. To deny this is to assume our own
infalliabilty ....

[T]hough the silenced opinion be an error, it may, and very commonly
does, contain a portion of truth; and since the general or prevailing
opinion on any subject is rarely or never the whole truth, it is only
by the collision of adverse opinions that the remainder of the truth
has any chance of being supplied ....

[E]ven if the received opinion be not only true, but the whole truth;
unless it is suffered to be, and actually is, vigorously and earnestly
contested, it will, by most of those who receive it, be held in the
manner of a prejudice, with little comprehension [of] or feeling [for]
its rational grounds.
===========================end==========================

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: misc.legal
From: egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges)
Subject: Re: Hate Speech Okay, says the Supreme Court
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:43:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.171135.29223@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
>
>[....]
>>  I propose that UNLESS one's alienation is already
>>pathological (eg., one views all government as necessarily alienated
>>from one's own interests and desires), one will see that the freedom of
>>our small community to enact an informal hate speech law is exactly
>>parallel to the freedom of St. Paul MN to improve ITS climate by doing
>>the same.
>[...]
>
>The difference is that your pact was voluntary. It depended on
>individual consciences, not on the authorities, to decide was, and was
>not, proper.

Living in a community, from a small town to a big nation, is ALSO
voluntary...at least to a degree.  The resident of St. Paul IN PART
volunteers to live in St. Paul.  Even residence in a country is
voluntary (in part), at least insofar as the country is a signatory to
the UN charter, and thus allows freedom to emigrate.  

And just as living in a community is partially voluntary, my
participating in Outward Bound was not a PURE act of volition, for I can
cogently argue that a heavily ideological Outward Bound limits my
freedom to gain its benefits; I'd be quite wrong for the reasons set
here, but this shows that the sharp voluntary/involuntary distinction
you use is bogus.  Indeed, participants in Outward Bound and in National
Outdoor Leadership School occasionally state that they prefer the less
ideological training of NOLS to the training of Outward Bound,
influenced as it is by the thoughts of educator Kurt Hahn.  I like
Hahn's ideas (and if you ask me, a lot of the discussants on this net
could do with the training in compassion provided by Outward Bound), but
actual mileage may differ.  Just don't limit MY freedom to join OB (or a
community with a well-drafted hate speech law that keeps the peace.)

IF living under a government is not voluntary, then you have confessed
to despair as to the viability of any community whatsoever, including
hunter/gatherer groups.  That's nice, but you don't belong in a legal or
political discussion group, for you are apriori convinced of the
impossibility of politics.  In addition, your ilk should not be allowed
to dominate groups (whether hunter/gatherer bands or the Supreme Court),
for you are inimical to the freedom of people to band together in groups
and pass laws.  


Newsgroups: misc.legal,talk.politics.misc
From: ra@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Starcap'n Ra)
Subject: Re: double jeopardy
Followup-To: misc.legal
Organization: misc.legal
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:10:27 GMT

demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
> ra@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Starcap'n Ra) writes:
> >      Why don't *you* do a little reading of a
> > thread before you respond to it, now there's
> > a good boy.  And after it dawns on you that we're
> > all quite aware of how the courts currently
> > interpret double jeopardy and that the nature
> > of that interpretation is what starts the debate
> > rather than finishes it, come on back if you
> > think you have anything interesting to say.
> 
> 	Starcap'n Ra, proving he had nothing to say from the get-go.

     What a pathetic response, Brett.

     I see it still hasn't dawned on you.
I hadn't expected it would.

--Starcap'n Ra       {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
                        {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
                                          ^---------------The Wrong Choice
                             internet: kennedy@asuvax.asu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.legal,alt.folklore.urban
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: How To Really Annoy People
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:33:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.110630.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fsars@acad3.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.022043.27422@panix.com>, lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney) writes:
>> In <64160@cup.portal.com> ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes:
>> 
>>>She thinks that the courts have not treated her fairly, and got pissed
>>>off at them.  She went and got forms for filing a lien and put liens on
>>>the houses of the Judges that have dealt with her, the lawyers, and the
>>>sheriff who threw her out.  It only costs $7 to put a lien on someone,
>>>and requires no proof that there is a good reason for said lien!
>> 
>> Yes, but if it turns out she had not good faith basis for liening the
>> property in questions, she will probably be liable to these judges for
>> "Abuse of Process" a tort in most states.
>
>A tort is usually a civil not a criminal charge.  If those judges
>decide to go after her, will it be worth it?  She's already lost her
>house or houses.  What else are they going to get from her?  Being
>down and out also has its advantages.  You have nothing to lose.

Well, there's always contempt of court.  Which in this case is somewhat
overt.

Which brings me to my second cross-posted newsgroup.  Did this really
happen, i.e., did the Seattle Times give names?  Or were they just relaying
an urban legend anecdote?
-- 
             ......................................................
             ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | std disclaimers
             the university of chicago law skool, chicago, illinois
             you can't throw me to the lions -- i'm charlton heston
Newsgroups: misc.legal,talk.politics.misc