From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: WILL THE REAL MISOGYNISTS PLEASE STAND UP? Case 1.
Keywords: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 12 Sep 92 21:02:09 GMT

In <BuCz46.Muv.2@cs.cmu.edu> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:

>In article <nyikos.715894974@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>#In <Bu50vy.8Ax.2@cs.cmu.edu> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
>#
>##In article <nyikos.715737676@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>###In <Bu43C8.6ox.2@cs.cmu.edu> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
>#
>#
>####Oh, yeah, right.  DOD uses one of his anti-Semitic slurs as a .sig.
>####Are you telling us that you don't read any of DOD's articles now,
>####or are you just using the "if I can't defend it, I never saw
>####it" excuse?
>###
>###What's anti-Semitic about disagreeing with one woman's distorted account
>###of what Judaism teaches about human life?  
>#
>##I asked a Reform Rabbi if the view was distorted.  (By the way,
>##the woman is describing the Reform view of *personhood*, not
>##human life.)  She said no.
>#
>#Have you ever asked an Orthodox rabbi? 

>Do you think that there is One True Form of Judaism, Nyikos?

No, there are three main forms, and when you call someone anti-Semitic
you are implying he is against all three.

By the way, a close friend of mine, a Reform Jew from New York, assures
me that there are more Orthodox Jews than Reform Jews EVEN IN THE UNITED
STATES.  When I was suitably astonished by his statement, he said that
there is a huge Orthodox community "hidden in the bowels of Brooklyn" which
has very little to do with the big outside world.

>###And even if it were not 
>###distorted--would you call someone anti-Islamic if he criticized 
>###people who saw nothing wrong with a precept allowing polygamy?
>#
>##Yes.  I might, for example, think that polygamy is morally wrong.
>##(Please note that this is hypothetical.)  That doesn't mean that
>##I would feel that I must criticize people whose religion
>##advocated or accepted polygamy.

Even if they personally approved of it and promoted it?

>#So far, we are only talking about Reform Judaism, which has no
>#official world-view.  As far as I have been able to ascertain,
># rabbis are pretty much free to
>#judge what is OK and what is not OK within Reform Judaism, except
>#perhaps where the Torah is concerned.  And I have yet to see 
>#support for the notion that personhood begins a month after birth in the
>#Torah.

>I truly hope that you are not pretending to be a Jewish
>scholar now. 

No, the Torah is part of the common heritage of Judaism, Christianity, 
and Islam.

> You don't seem to even understand the basic
>precepts of Reform Judaism.  

So enlighten me about them, please.  Tell me where what I am saying above
is incorrect.  It is based on my best recollection of a conversation I had
two months ago with my Reform Jewish friend mentioned above.

>I note that you evaded the basic issue.  I'm not surprised,
>but I do note it.

As far as I can recall, the question of whether I have seen an anti-Semitic
statement by either Doug or Steve IS one of the basic issues, the other
being whether they are anti-Semitic.  I have addressed the first (see
above and below) and as for the second, I presume they are innocent
until proven guilty.

>#And I have yet to see an anti-Semitic statement by either Holtsinger
>#or Chaney.  I am not denying that they have occurred, only that I
>#have seen any.

>That's nice.  Some of us did.  It makes their delight in this
>quote all the more telling.

>##was a post in which Chaney attributed comments made by a
>##woman with a Jewish-sounding last name to "the Jews of
>##New York," and denigrated the entire group.)
>#
>#Well, you've just attributed comments made by one Jewish woman
>#and one Reform woman rabbi to Judaism as a whole, yet you have
>#not denigrated Judaism--or have you?

>I did no such thing.  As I've said elsewhere, I don't even know
>that the woman is Jewish. 

Oh, so now we're down to one woman rabbi?

> DOD and Chaney made that assumption.

Where????????  Not in their .sig file, that's for sure.

>Susan

Newsgroups: talk.abortion