From: coates@newton.physics.uq.oz.au (Tony Coates)
Subject: Re: Distress Call
Keywords: Suddenly, the moon blows up.
Organization: Physics Dept. The University of Queensland
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:51:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.003609.3184@sequent.com>, rip@sequent.com (Paul T Taylor) writes:
|> In article <9SEP199216084304@bestsd.sdsu.edu> regan1016@bestsd.sdsu.edu (T. ELIZABETH HARVEY) writes:
|> >In article <1992Sep9.041827.17514@wam.umd.edu>, hwyman@next05cville.wam.umd.edu (The Hwyman)    writes...
|> 
|> **bunch of stuff deleted**
|> 
|> >>It's getting late but I don't think I'll be able to sleep much.  And
|> >>if I do, I hope I don't remember my dreams.  They won't be pleasant.
|> >>Well, another nice guy bit the big one.
|> >Oh, don't say that!  I believe that nice guys always finish first,
|> >eventually ...
|> 
|> I am really sorry about this Liz, but this statement here struck a
|> sour cord with me.  I know that you mean well in saying this.  One of
|> the cyclical discussions that shows up in most of the newgroups that
|> deal with people relations is the 'NiceGuy' syndrome.  One of the
|> things that is always bemoaned is that 'NiceGuys always come in last',
|> the guys say this, and then some female type says something like you
|> said, with the 'eventually' thrown in for good measure.  (I am hoping
|> you don't take this personally, as I like you...) It is that one word
|> that always sets me off.
|> 
|> Now, tell me, and I know alot of people out there will have opinions
|> about this.  Why is it that 'NiceGuys' always seem to have to
|> finish last?  Is it because basically most 'NiceGuys' are shy and not
|> noticed?  Do they just not want to intrude on other people?  All this
|> while the 'Jerks', the loud, obnoxious ones, (gee, that sounds vaguely
|> familiar....), are getting the attention, and the chicks?
|> 
|> I've heard both sides of this argument many times and basically I
|> have come to the conclusion that most of the 'NiceGuys' are perpetual
|> whiners, and unless they can crawl out of there shells, they will
|> always be last.  Until they feel they want to take charge of thier
|> lives and get what *they* want, no one is going to hand it to them on
|> a Silver Platter.
|> 
|> Well, enough of this....  Personally I would not put HWY in this
|> catagory, and you probably weren't trying to.  I think rather he,
|> like most of the guys in this group, is just a normal loving person
|> who has had a nasty experience.  Blahblahblahblahblah.....
|> 
|> Sorry I ran off at the mouth like that, it just struck a cord, like I
|> said...
|> 
|> 
|> rip

Once again I find myself in agreement with rip.  I have some friends who
are "nice guys", and who try just *so* hard when they go out with a
young lady not to upset her, and not to do anything too forward. 
Unfortunately, it does seem that the young ladies of today do *not*
greatly appreciate being treated like china dolls.  They would rather
have you say what you feel, even if it offends them somewhat - anyway,
this sort of thing can lead to some good discussions ... if it offends
them too much, well it's "bye-bye", but trying too hard not to upset
people can make things seem really anaesthetic.
	As for not wanting to be too forward, it does seem that some
guys take this to extremes, essentially waiting for *her* to take the
first move in things like holding hands, putting arms around shoulders,
etc.  Some small initiative is fine here; it's just that you have to be
sensitive to what *is* the line.  Just doing nothing is a poor
substitute for learning to be sensitive to the lady who you are with.
	Anyway, these is just my feelings based on my own "nice guy"
years and my views on some of my friends.  You have to be brave enough
to take a few risks in life, is what it comes down to ...
							Tony.
[Knight Defender of the Grail of Human Dignity]
Newsgroups: alt.romance.chat