From: ablanch@physics.su.OZ.AU (Shonias)
Subject: Re: Stereotypes? Objectifying? thoughts..
Keywords: Perceiving, and then recognizing.. tainted by experience..? don't know..
Organization: School of Physics, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:31:47 GMT

In article <76730@ut-emx.uucp> jodybean@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (zaphod-) writes:
[Lots of musings deleted for space]
>  You've admitted to yourself that
>it's easier
>   to relate to women, supposedly.. i.e. you tend to talk more in mixed company
>   or even more so in the company of women..        why are you forcing these
>   steps, and what's a good solution to stop it dead in its tracks?  How do you
>   work around these stereotypes..

That is something I have wonderd about before. Why is it that some people seem
to relate better to the opposite sex? Not everyone does. I certainly do, in
fact I have had a lot of trouble coming up with three bridesmaids for my
wedding because on the whole, my best friends are men. I really haven't noticed
any significant correlation with anything in particular, so I have no idea
what it is that makes some people so much better at relating to the opposite 
sex. Not really what Jody was talking about, but it brought the thought up.


>So here's the questions that I sort of wonder about:
>  1) How much does our past influence our decisions on the present?

Probably almost more than anything else. Most often your decisions are
based on what you think the consequences of each possibility will be.
Without comparing to what has gone before, you have no way of guessing
what those consequences might be.

>  2) What are some good ways of breaking out of this objectifying/stereotyping
>     that I sometimes fall prey to.. how can I tune my mind and way of living,
>     so that I stop seeing the differences as things which get in the way of
>     better understanding?

I think (and this is *real* speculation, since I haven't really thought long
enough on the subject to even be sure that *I* agree with it... but I'll
put something down now, mainly because it'll probably make me think about it
later) that as long as you are aware of the stereotypes that you employ, 
and you try to compensate for them, then you have done pretty well. Stereotypes
can be useful. We aren't capable of getting to know everyone on an individual
basis, so stereotypes can be helpful guidelines. The main thing is that you
don't allow the stereotypes to influence you observation. As long as the 
ST is the default option,  automatically superceded by any more useful
information, then you are giving people a fair go.

>  3) At one point in this walk, I thought, "Gawd, life would be so much better
>     if I didn't even know the information to begin with, that is I was
>deprived
>     of all senses."   What do you think of this thought?

How would you make a decision? If you had no idea how it would affect people
how would you decide what to do? Life might be simpler, but I doubt it would
be better.

>  4) I have yet to have sex, I doubt I'll make it a point to try to have
>it, and
>     right now I'm not too concerned about that standing.  However, should the 
>     situation ever arise.. when do I pursue it..?   Obviously, I think
>I should
>     wait until I find someone who agrees with my view, or at least make sure
>     they fully understand that view before doing anything [and I should also
>     clarify what that view is sometime soon and always make sure it's still 
>     clear in my mind after that], but how can I tell that they understand that
>     view, and *don't* subconsciously associate their view of it onto what they
>     think my thoughts on it are, especially after the fact if it happens?
>       My view sort of being explained way back at the beginning of this, btw.

Hmmmm. Someone with your ideas on sex is a real good idea. You can't really
psychically detect how they are interpreting what you tell them, but I think
that generally if you put it clearly, and your actions completely agree with
what you have told them, then there is not likely to be any confusion. If you
have been misunderstood, and the person is still happy with the arrangement,
does it really matter? Hang on, I think I mean *slightly* misunderstood there.

My idea of sex is that it is something that should be shared with someone you
honestly care about. That can include a lot of people, and that is fine by me.
But there are other people's feelings to be considered. My fiancee doesn't
feel quite the same way about sex, so, I don't put my ideas about sex into
practise, he is more important. Academically he can agree with me, but somehow
the greeneyed monster doesn't listen to academic reasoning....  :)

Don't know if that was anything like the response you were looking for Jody,
but it is a subject that I think about a lot, so I thought I would put my
two cents in. 

Shonias

--
************************************
I have no need for moonlight
You're wrong to trust in sunlight
For I exist, not just in song,
But in life itself, in so many forms
To leave you cold.
************************************
Newsgroups: alt.callahans