From: mj03@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MINHO JO)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: YS SHOULD HAVE BEEN eliminated   ( RE: AFTERMATH of ELECION)
Date: 30 Dec 92 02:08:37 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Dec29.110041.33582@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>,

mj03@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MINHO JO) writes:

   Minho's Preface Comments:

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First of all,  we appreciate your vigorous arguments.   I regret

I missed chances to read all of your postings.   I agree with some of

opinions,  however I disagree with many of your ideas.  I feel that you

are so conservative.   In a sense,  you are a far-right extremist even if

you don't like yourself to be categorized.   In reality,  even if one

does not say which side he/she is in,   people can classify one in

category,  based on his/her trends and preference,  and previous

activities, comments,  and experiences.   Thus,  I carefully would

put you in rihgt extremism according to your preference/dislike

and comments.  You are also free to judge my trend based on what

I said before and I am saying.



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Now these are my opinions in reply to yours (Byungtae).


Byungtae's Claim:

>        Why did you ignore the fact that YS trashed so-called "3-parties
>        merging-secret-agreement" (Kak-Seo) of which core was parliamentary
>        system, and rejected ChongChan Lee and TJ Park's request of that when
>        he desparately needed them?


Minho's DISCUSSION:

         YS was in favor of the parliamentary system between the 87

         presidential election and the 3-party merge.   Whenever people

         reprimanded his preference of the parliamentary system over

         the president-oriented system,   he withdrew his comments on

         his favorite.   Moreover, I remember he announced  abrubtly that

         he liked the president-oriented system changing from the

         parliamentary system,  right after secret meeting with DJ.

         Before announcing that,  of course he had mentioned many times

         that he had preferred the parliamentary system.    I remember that

         he repeated it several times during the period.   No matter when

         he changed his preference,  he used to make bad use of the cheap

         words,  "IF OUR PEOPLE WANT".    YS used to abuse the cheap words

         when he went down back to his home time,  Geojea-Do after having

         power games against other rivals within Minja-Dang.

         He is still abusing the cheap words.

         Let's get to the point.   The first condition for the 3-party

         merge was to change the constitution,  that is,  changing from

         the presidential-oriented system to the parliamentary system.

         He agreed with the main point at that time.  At least,  there

         was no problem with the agreement since YS was in favor of

         the parliamentary system too.    However,  YS broke the agreement

         suddenly.   He even disclosed the secret agreement statement ((

         For this scandal,  in the Gwanhoon Club press conference held just

         before the 92 presidential election, YS refused for him to disclose
         the secret statement.   He rather tried to imply Park Chul-Un did

         it.   The columnist who asked him the question in the press conference

         wrote in a column of Ha-Guk Il Bo,  "I am very disappointed with YS's

         dishonesty,  I was well prepared evidences for the question.  I met

         the YS's follower  to double-check it,  who gave a copy of the

         secret staement to press men by YS's request.  Nevertheless,  he

         was trying to hide the truth boldly".   The columnist

         criticized YS's morals and dishonesty in the column.))




                   BTW,  WHY DID HE BETRAY the secret statement ?


                    : First of all,  he realized that he couldn't

                    be guaranteed the prime minister position since

                    Minju-Gea could gain a few number of congressional

                    seats.   YS got big deafeat in the congressional

                    election before.  His political basis was limited

                    only to Pusan.  His Minju-Gea got 4 or 5 seats even

                    in Seoul.

                    It was obvious that the prime minister

                    should come from the majority paction,  Minjung-Gae.


                    Therfore,  he had to bet a big gambling:  Breaking

                    the promise.   Getting back to the presidential-

                    oriented system (Also, he didn't forget to abuse

                    the cheap words, "SINCE THE PEOPLE WANT").

                    He declared that he should be candidate of Minja-Dang

                    for presidency with his own justification that he was

                    only rival to compete with the powerful DJ.




                    In conclusion,  I disagree with your insist that

                    YS be consistent with preferring the prsident-oriented

                    system.   He does NOT have any philasophy on what

                    he prefer.  Of course,  the empty brain should not

                    have any concrete philosophy and principles.

                    His favorites are dependable on if he

                    can grasb power or not.   When he broke the secret

                    promise,  he didn't explain why he got back to

                    the president-oriented system.   He only abused one

                    sentence again at the moment at his home town, Geojae-Do,

                    "SINCE THE PEOPLE WANT".   In the future,  YS are

                    very likely to change the system,  depending on

                    his political status.


 Byungtae's Arguments:

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        My analysis(?) goes as follows:
>        Without real political parties which have the firm roots in people,
>        parliamentary system will be the compromise among a few political
>        forces when any of them can not sustain their control over the country

>        If any of them has the majority support of people or house,
        presidential system will be prefered.



Minho's Contradiction:

         Because of the above problem,   DJ promised to reform the party

         systems (Jung-Gea Gea-Pyun) if he were elected.   I believe

         that Jung-Gea Gea-Pyun can be achieved.   Because many of congressmen

         in Minja-Dang are servants of the power,  many of them possibly

         including some or all of the Gukmin-Dang,  must go to DJ who

         is assumed to be president.    And so,  I don't worry about

         the control problem.



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Byungtae's Arguments:

>        YS has more stable political basis and I do not think it will be
>        difficult for YS to have the absolute majority in house.
>        Why does he want to change it?
>        On the other hand, unfortunately it was obvious again that DJ could
                                                                    ^^^^^^^^
>        not build his political base outside his province. I am from Choong-
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>        Buk where I could not find a bit of DJ support.
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>        Isn't it ridiculous that a man wants to be a national leader without
>        political mechanism outside his province?  If he encounter tough
>       opposition, what will be his choice?



Minho's Contradiction:

        I think your argument is ridiculous.    As far as I know,  DJ had

        the neck-and-neck game in Kyunggi-Do and Choong-Nam.  DJ got 13 %

        even in Pusan where YS's stronghold site is, while YS got 0.9 % in

        Chulla-Do.   Definitely DJ got 38 % in Seoul winning over YS having

        35 (or 36) %.     You said that you could not find a bit of DJ

        support.   How can you explain that DJ got 25 % in the election

        in Choong-Buk (YS got around 34 %) ?.   Is 25% a bit ?

        In this point,  I would like to mention the characteristics of

        the Choong-Buk people (This never means offense against the

        Choong-Buk people.  I don't have any ill feeling on them.  I just

        want to add the fact to my justification).    People said that

        the Choong-Buk people are stubborn,  very conservative,

        and are reluctent to changes.   If DJ had run as a candidate of

        Minja for the presidential election,   DJ should have obtained

        34 % as much as YS got.   Whoever runs for presidency,  they

        will be in favor of Yeo-Dang foreever.   Should be the same

        in Kangwon-Do.

        You should keep in mind that YS got 28 % in 87 presidential election.

        What if DJ had run in Minja-Dang clothes for 92 election ?
        There is no doubt DJ could win the election,  surely DJ could

        get more percent of voters than YS got.   He would have much more

        support in all over areas with Yeo-Dang's premium.  You may disagree

        with that.  (When you contradict that,  I want you first to anwer

        my question, "Kwankwon's fairness",  for instant,  unfair to

        Gukmin-Dang,  cracking down Hyndai's assists to Gukmin-Dang which was

        crucial to the 92 election, and so on.)  However,  when DJ was

        suggested to join Minja-Dang,  DJ rejected the

        proposal of parties merging, while YS betrayed the peoiple accepting

       the proposal.






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These are extra questions to Byungtae:


        1. You said most of visiting professors and researchers in

           your school support YS.

                QUESTION:  How old are they ?

                           Where are from in Korea ?

                           Do you think they are middle class or

                           upper class ?


                YOU MUST SPECIFY THE ABOVE THINGS.


       2. You insisted that most of your frieds supported YS in 87 elction.

          You speciifed they were middle class.


          QUESTION:  Do you have any information on that after YS

                     betrayed the people joining Minja ?


          QUESTION:  How can you explain the results that most of

                     my friends in this school,  are in favor of DJ ?


                         Note:  Most of them are middle class,  from
                                seoul,  and are 30th.




I WILL BE LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR GOOD DISCUSSIONS.

Thank Byuntae and other SCK friends for reading the long argument.



                      Minho Jo, Lehigh University
                      Computer Integrated Manufacturing Lab.,
                      Industrial Engineering Department.
                      MJ03@Lehigh.edu