From: gt1111a@prism.gatech.EDU (Vincent Fox)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: democratic platform
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:43:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Note that I removed the talk.abortion follow-up:

In <1992Jul23.222601.8031@advtech.uswest.com> steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak) writes:
>> = (Phil Ngai) writes:
>>> = ( Steve Novak) writes:
>>>Waiting periods for purchasing firearms can help spot those with criminal
>>>records or mental problems, people I hope you agree shouldn't have guns. 

>>Waiting periods for credit card purchases can help stop those with
>>bad credit.

>We're talking about guns that kill people, Ngai.  Let's not be condescending.

Uhh, pardon me for butting into this little insult-fest, but everyone on
t.p.g. has long been aware that it is possible for guns to kill people.

[snip]

>This is extreme.  I am NOT a gun banner; I really don't know that many, yet
>I know many in favor of waiting periods.  _I own a gun_.  I get tired of
>being accused thusly when I simply see the need for ways to get guns out of
>the hands of every murderous thug in the country who wants one.  (Hint: I
>am in no way claiming that all gun owners are murderous thugs.)

Yes you are! Explain how if I go in, pass an "Instant Staggers Check",
have a valid State Driver's License and/or other proof of residence,
sign all the appropriate forms, etc. that I am then likely to go out
and kill someone with this highly-tracked gun? One more time for slow
learners: Murderous thugs don't buy retail!  A really serious one will
have the money, connections, etc. to buy really nice hardware stolen from
our own military. Want a full-auto M-16 just like our Army uses, to blow
away some rival dealer? No problem! There are always people in the military
who will steal them and sell them. 

No, you're just espousing the common ideal "any means to my end".
It's funny how folks who scream bloody murder about laws against
flag-burning, abortion waiting periods, etc. handle this topic.
With any other topic it's "no infringement of *any* kind will be
tolerated". However a lifetime of bad TV seems to permeate into
the same people's brains with the message that crime is horrible
and we should give our police-state maximum power to fight it *any*
cost. Read Sanford Levinson's paper. We accept a certain social
cost in terms of lives and inconvenience when we staunchly defend
the right to publish *anything*, and by preventing random police searches
under the 4th amendment.

The objections to your (assumedly) emotional belief that a waiting 
period would help are:

1) You have offered no proof such waiting periods have *any* benefit,
nor has anyone else. The burden of proof is on you. The common refrain
of "let's try it, it can't hurt" is wrong on two counts:
	It has been tried.
	It's never worked.
	
2) You have offered no indication of how law-abiding gun-owners present
such a horrible hazard to society that they must have their rights 
infringed.

>I know people in favor of banning TYPES of guns...including that flaming
>liberal Barry Goldwater, who said of semi-automatics (paraphrased): "Anyone
>who needs more than one bullet to kill a deer shouldn't be hunting anyway."

Barry's hardly the worst. The real enemy of the Republic are statists,
those who believe ever-increasing government powers and ever-decreasing
freedoms are the way to go. Both Liberal-Left Democrats and Right-Wing
Republicans have this trait in common. The pitiful peasants can't be
left to themselves. You're just the kind of citizen they love, one who's
perfectly willing to give away other's people's rights. 

-- 
The War on Drugs is just a part of the War on the US Constitution. 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns