HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 01:35:49 -0400 
From: Erik Karl Witte <ew2r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Buffalo?? Philly?? Nope!!!
	<Bv9rJ9.CDE@acsu.buffalo.edu>

Let's clear this thing up once and for all.
Disclaimer:  I am a Bills fan and neutral with respect to the Eagles.

From Buffalo's side.
1.  There are practically no other good teams in the AFC.
2.  Buffalo did very well last year without Kelly.
3.  If Thurman Thomas gets injured, they have Kenneth Davis.  He was a
former Packer, yes, but didn't fit into Lindy Infante's offense and was
released.  Buffalo snatched him up and got their money's worth.  If
anybody doesn't believe he can run, look at some replays of the
Indianapolis game.  Yes, I know it was just Indianapolis, but they have
a good defense and he did have some amazing moves and some undeniable
speed.  He can't receive as well as Thomas, but Thomas may very well be
the best receiving back in the game anyway.  Last year he had 4.8 per
carry and 624 yards in a backup role.  Not bad.  Many teams would kill
for a starter who could run 624 yards and produce 4.8 per carry
(obviously not Dallas or Detroit, don't be an idiot.  But the fact is,
many teams would be quite happy to pick up Davis).
4.  What do you mean, no depth at WR.  It's unfair to say "Well, once
you take out their first THREE receivers."  Besides, after Lofton, Reed
and Bebe, they still have more receivers.  How often do you see the
Bills out of a 4 WR set anyway?
5.  It is obvious that Buffalo could not win if they lost Kelly, Thomas,
Reed, Lofton and Beebe.
6.  Decent line play?  Bruce Smith and Cornelius Bennett are all you
need to make an excellent defensive line, and their offensive line has
given Kelly all the time he has needed to lead the Bills to the #1
position in total scoring.
7.  Steve Christie is all you could ask for in a kicker, because there
is only one Morton Andersen.  He has the best FG% of all active kickers
and excellent range.  Bills fans would be satisfied with him trying for
a SuperBowl winning 47-yd FG.
8.  The Bills will choke.  Obviously, having been to two consecutive
Super Bowls they no nothing about pressure, right?
9.  The Bills have only gotten better.  Their offense is unchanged (it
doesn't need changing) and their defense is much better.  Their special
teams play be.

Philly:
1.  AWESOME defense.  Anybody who denies this is quite simply an idiot.
2.  Randall throws, Randall runs.  If he sucks, why was he the #1 QB
after 3 weeks?  He has at least one talented (not Lofton or Reed
calibre, but still very good) WR in Barnett, and others who are at worst
adequate.
3.  Herschel has done very well.  The Saints should qualify as the real
defensive threat Joel Alvstad wanted.  The Saints were only the #2
defense last year, but Herschel won't play against the #1 defense - it
was Philly.
4.  They went 10-6 last year without Randall or a rushing attack.  Their
record was based mostly on their defense.  Now that they have a more
balanced offense, they are a real threat to win the NFC.

Dallas is good but simply not good enough to beat the other good NFC teams.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: 49ers/Rams
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 01:43:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.000518.20603@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> marshall@nebula.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com writes:

>Jim Everett played a great game, hitting his first 12 passes of the game
>and ending up going 20-24 for 232 yards. The 49ers were simply unable to
>stop him. They also had a lot of trouble stopping Cleveland Gary, who
>ripped off several long runs.

Granted, the Niners didn't appear to be inspired, but I'll take this game
as yet another example that their DL is poorly suited for pash rushing.
As good as Fagan, Holt, Brown, Washington, Carter et al are against the
run, none of them are great pass rushers, and only Holt is even above
average.  And adding Tim Harris to the picture is an incomplete solution;
when your best pash rusher is a linebacker, even a specialty linebacker,
you've got a problem.

I'm not sure exactly what I'd do to remedy this.  I'd hate to replace
any of the starters, as good as they are against the run.  Perhaps
going to back to a conventional 4-3, *and* using Harris as an OLB?
Rushing five is currently the only way the Niners consistently put
pressure on the QB.  If the Lambs (for crying out loud) can pass at
will against them, how will the Niners fare when they hit another
Bills-caliber team?
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	)
Subject: Re: Green Bay 17, Pitt 3
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Date: 28 SEP 92 09:44:51    

In article <1992Sep28.092709.6672@cis.ohio-state.edu>, martens@python.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jeff Martens) writes...

>Any word on Brock's knee?

Nothing is mentioned in the Wisconsin State Journal.

>Also:  Vinnie Clark blocked a field goal, and George Koonce
>recovered a muffed punt (clarinews is incorrectly reporting that
>it was a fumbled punt).  The coverage teams looked good.

Goofy NFL rule #341:  When a punt is muffed the team that recovers it 
gets the ball not where it's recovered but where the muff took place.  
I can understand the rule saying you can't advance a muff - although I 
don't see why this is not allowed at least its comprehensible.  But 
the team that recovers the ball should get it where they recover it.  
The rule must be in place to keep teams from trying to muff the ball 
forward.  This would seem extremely unlikely anyway.

JGH
From: milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: What happened to the Buccos?????
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:26:10 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

I didn't see the game. What happened. Did Vinny suck or the defense collapse or what? Send me what you know of the game. Thanks in advance.

-- 
                                                The Rickster
                                                milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu
The only thing in life that you get
for free is your feelings hurt.
From: SFRELIAS@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Let the HYPE begin
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:21:35 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo


 
The match up between the BILLS and the dolphins this sunday should be the game
to watch.
The BILLS are favorite to win this bayby by 10-15 pts, and I think that is too
little. The BILLS will squish the fish by 20 pts or more.
 
I don't think Keith Jackson will make a diffrence this sunday or this year for
that matter.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BILLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
From: fafuria@dry.Princeton.EDU (Frederick Arthur Furia)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: PREDICTIONS for Cowboys/Eagles game
Date: 4 Oct 92 18:07:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Oct4.001245.7628@athena.mit.edu> chico@athena.mit.edu (Thomas A Weston) writes:
>In article <91457@netnews.upenn.edu>, sajja@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Rajeev  Sajja) writes:
>|> 
>|> looks like you dont like the eagles (3-0) sitting at the top of NFC
>|> east. It seems like you have been going to the vet regularly. Let me
>|> take a guess. You must have been to the vet once, and a bottle
>|> intended for someone landed on you. You are a NewYork fan aren't
>|> you....
>|> 
>|> GO EAGLES...

>Have you ever been to the Vet?  It's horrible for baseball even.  I usually go
>to maybe 2 Phillies games a year, and I'm always amazed at how drunk and
>obnoxious the fans are.  And this is tame compared to how they act at a football
>game.

Oh, quit whining!  I myself have been to the Vet lots of times for concerts
and baseball games, and I've never been hit by any bottles or seen anything
that was as bad as you make it sound.  (Although I've heard of people having
to pay for "car protection" out in the lots :-).  Admittedly, I've never
been there for football, but to be talking like that, you must really have
a personal dislike for the town.  What *is* your favorite city?

Fred

LET'S GO FLYERS

GO EAGLES!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: lej@pdn.paradyne.com (Leo James)
Subject: Re: How's Vinnie?
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:25:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep24.202051.4766@meaddata.com> daled@meaddata.com (Dale Drummond) writes:
>Will he start against Detroit?  Thanks.
>
He not only started, but finished it by throwing the winning touchdown
pass to TE Ron Hall  (I told you fantasy guys to take Dawsey and Hall)
with 49 seconds left in the game.  There were no major injuries to re-
port in the ballgame which the Bucs won 27 - 23.  The story of the 1st
month of the season  here in Tampa Bay  has been the play of our twin,
rookie, defensive tackles Mark Wheeler  (Texas A&M) and Santana Dotson
(Baylor).  Santana now has 6 sacks after breaking the Buccaneer rookie
record for sacks (which had been held by Chris Washington, '84).  What
did he do on Sunday? He only had one sack, and one fumble returned for
a touchdown.  I believe that he has been the most impressive defensive
rookie in the league thus far.

NEXT UP:  The Indianapolis Colts.
--
+---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|Leopold E. James     | "A heart, a soul, AND | AT&T Paradyne         |
|ph: (813) 530-8425   |  a mind are terrible  | P.O. Box 2826, LG-132,|
|lej@pdn.paradyne.com |  things to waste."    | Largo, FL 34649 (USA) |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: sh666@selway.umt.edu (Ysidro)
Subject: Re: The Broncos have an offense again!  (or Who'da Thunk it!)
Organization: University of Montana
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 05:52:04 GMT

Want I want to know is why doesn't Elway/Broncos use that same 
4th quarter, two minutes left strategy throughout the whole game?
I feel sorry for the Chiefs... they out-played the Broncos on every
side of the ball.  Elway is so good you have to hate him......

							Dave (aka Ysidro)
From: GC.JAB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Tony Bechtold)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: pretenders
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:38:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA

In article <BvM5tw.3sq@acsu.buffalo.edu>,
v069qqqc@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Mike C.) writes:

>Once again, the Bills show how they can beat up on weak teams,
>only to lose when it really counts. The pattern holds true: they
>win the first few games against weak teams, then lose a big game
>against a strong team. Now they'll 'get their act together' for
>a few wins against some more winless teams, and breeze into the playoffs.
>But I sincerely hope they don't make it too far this year, because
>they don't have it. They're an average team who catch teams off guard
>with their trickery on offense, and steal some wins against some good teams.

>But then when it counts, the real Bills show up: the defense who can't
>stop anything, the offense led by an overrated QB who ***CHOKES***
>whenever the pressure is on (see SB XXV, XXVI). This team will never
>amount to everything, and I'm sick of watching them blow every big game
>they play.

>At least we could depend on a home win in the past... now even that is
>gone. I refuse to follow this team anymore.

>Congrats Miami. Take the division, take the championship. Please. We
>in Buffalo don't want it anymore.

>Mike C
>very fickle ex-Bills fan

Well finally a Bills fan see's the light!!  Now when are the rest of
you dreamers going to see it? :->

                                                    Tony
                                                 GO 49ERS!!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: blah@maas-neotek.arc.nasa.gov (TWF)
Subject: Re: Finally...Jackson's outta here!!!
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:04:12 GMT

>>That's what allthe Rams fans said after they got rid of Dickerson, and look
>>what happened to them!!
>>
>>Karl
>
>	Yeah, but weren't the Rams right?  Dickerson turned into shit after
>	he left.  Monday Night's piss-poor show by #29 is typical.  Looks
>	like he picked up right where he left off in Indianapolis.  Philly's
>	a different story - they put the "A" on awesome.  :-)
>
>				Jeff
>


????????????

Did you watch Dickerson on Monday night?  12 carries, 69 yards.  Not
too bad.  The problem was that there were only 12 carries.  I don't
want to defend Dickerson too much, since I think that his bad attitude
definitely contributed to his poor performance in Indy (of course,
it's hard to run without an offensive line).  My point is, though,
that he is *by far* the best running back on the Raiders roster.  He's
not a good receiver, but he is still a great runner.  I think that a
majority of the Raiders problems this year are a combination of Davis
sticking his nose into the coach's gameplan (there's a surprise), and
the coaches trying to delve out enough playing time to all of the big
egos that are on the club, instead of just playing the best.  Marcus
Allen is right - I don't think that the Raiders are committed to
winning right now.  Cutting Allen and running Dickerson 25+ times a
game would be a good start.  And putting Schroeder (sp?) back at QB
couldn't hurt, either.


Mark

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: sybesma@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Eric Sybesma)
Subject: Re: NFC Central
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:16:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.094138.4999@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> kstell@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (kevin.l.stell) writes:
>
>
>AHEM:
>
>Lets face facts: The Lions are 1-3. THe Lions losses this year are to
>CHICAGO, WASHINGTON and TAMPA. Last year the lions lost to CHICAGO, WASHINGTON,
>TAMPA and SF. They went 12-4. This year they were in EVERY gamae unlike
>last year. In fact, they could just as easily be 4-0 as 0-4.
>
No, they could not.  They are 1-3.  They could just as easily be
2-2 as 0-4.  It would have taken a lot to change the other two games.
Face it, they have been playing poorly.  The Vikings played worse
in the head-to-head match-up.  That's it.  The Lions best game was
the opener at Soldier Field, and they have gone down-hill from there.

Eric Sybesma

P.S.  I like the Lions, but they are not playing good football.



-- 
Eric Sybesma
University of Michigan
sybesma@quip.eecs.umich.edu
sybesma@maize.engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: paladin@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jason Gische)
Subject: Re: Andre Rison
Keywords: whiner!
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 17:52:56 GMT

In article <2571@devnull.mpd.tandem.com> dwelch@mpd.tandem.com (Dan Welch) writes:
>In article <29706@ursa.bear.com> billm@thor.fsrg.bear.com (Bill Moss) writes:
>>The owners use every ploy (legal and illegal) to keep every red cent they
>>get out of us fans.  They make a killing.
>
>As an aside, this is not true.  The San Francisco club lost $8 million last
>year.  Does anyone have statistics on how each club is doing?
>
>Curiously enough (and this seems to fit right into the arguement) San
>Francisco had the highest player payroll last year, around $35 million.
>Pittsburgh, which I think had the lowest ($17 million) made $8 million in
>profit.
>
>Daniel Welch


Hold on.  The $8 million in losses that the 49ers claimed to have lost
last year were not substantiated.  During the McNeil trial, it was discovered
that that figure included a large "loan" to Eddie Debartolo's company,
among other questionable expenses.
NFL teams cry about player salaries.  What about Eagles owner Norman Braman
paying himself $7 million last year for his work as an adviser to the
team.  That's his SALARY, totally unrelated to the factthat he owns the team
and gains most (I don't know if he is sole owner) of the profits from the
team.  So when the Eagles' financial records were released, it seemed as if
they had spent a lot more last season than they actually had.  Yet Norman
still came away with a hefty chunk of cash. 
Mind you, I am not begrudging the man his due.  He owns the team.  He laid
out the money to buy it, he covers the expenses that are incurred.  It's
his business and he desereves to turn a (large) profit.  But he has no right
to plead poverty while doing so.  He's making a lot of money and trying
to hide that fact so that he can keep from paying the players on the open
market.
And as an aside, if the 49ers did lose a little money last year, it might
have something to do with paying a multi-million dollar salary to a backup
quarterback.
Jason Gische
From: billm@thor.fsrg.bear.com (Bill Moss)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Andre Rison
Keywords: whiner!
Date: 2 Oct 92 00:23:40 GMT
Organization: Bear Stearns & Company, New York, NY

In article <69027@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN,AVRON P) writes:
>
>Granted, I haven't read a sports section for about 3 days now, but Rison's
>whiny antics are REALLY annoying!  He insisted on his contract being
>renegotiated when he already was under contract.  Of course, those idiots,
>the Smith family (led by Rankin Sr.) were DUMB enough to give the whiny
>baby his bottle.  
....stuff deleted....
>These guys make just too much money to have the nerve to whine and ask for
>more.
>-- 
>BERNSTEIN,AVRON P

This attitude is very common, and I've always found it curious.

Do you get upset if the owners double their parking/ticket/concession charges 
on you?  If they double their revenue without passing much (or any) of it 
along to the players?

Rison and his colleagues go out on a dangerous field and risk permanent injury
every week.  The owners don't risk anything.  They've got a monopoly.  They
are gonna make money whether their teams win or lose, whether Rison plays
or is injured.

The owners use every ploy (legal and illegal) to keep every red cent they
get out of us fans.  They make a killing.  Why don't you applaud Rison
for using a perfectly legal withholding of his labor?

Rison breaks his neck for you on the field, week in and week out.  
What have the owners ever done for you?

			==Bill Moss
Xref: sparky rec.sport.football.pro:18452 rec.sport.football.college:14272
From: gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro,rec.sport.football.college
Subject: fumble out of bounds
Keywords: what happens?
Date: 29 Sep 92 07:35:10 GMT
Followup-To: send
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


At what yard line is a fumble placed if it goes out of bounds?  I already 
know that it belongs to the team that last had posession before it went out,
but where is it placed.  The reason I ask is that it would seem to make sense
to place it at the line of scrimmage, not where it goes out of bounds.  The
reason being to discourage intentionally fumbling the ball forward and out
of bounds to advance the ball (re: Holy Roller play, almost).  So what do they
do?  If they place it at the spot where it goes out of bounds, is it actually
legal for a team to fail to pick a fumbled ball, let it roll, or "bobble it"
while trying to pick it up, and let it travel from say their own 30 (scrimmage)
to the opposing team's 30 (or anywhere else downfield for that matter)?
Since, you can't intentionally fumble into the endzone to score, I figured this
meant that you can't fumble it to gain yardage either.
-- 
BERNSTEIN,AVRON P
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt6390a
Internet: gt6390a@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: chehhm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (Hui Mao)
Subject: Re: The FISH EAT BUFFALFO MEAT!
Keywords: FISH EAT BUFFALO BILLS!
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:35:28 GMT

jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria) writes:

>KELLY throws his 1st INT, intercepted by Lewis Oliver...
>Bills FANS, won't forget his name. :-)
>Keith Jackson wastes no time and scores his first TD with
>a remarkable catch.  YES! Okay, where are the K.Jackson detractors
>now?

>KELLY throws his 2nd INT by JB Brown. Tony Paige scores TD
>reception from Marino  YES!

>Andre Reed scores TD...yawn. :-)

>Humphrey scores TD.  YES!

>KELLY throws his 3rd INT Oliver in the endzone. Oliver runs
>out and cuts down the left side, look at him GO, CAN
>HEEE GO...ALL  THE    WAYYYY....YES, 103 yards TD.

>Would you believe Kelly just threw his 4th INT. In the endzone
>again, to Lewis Oliver who returns it for 54 yards. 1st down
>Miami.

>The Dolphins (FISH) score again, alright, it was ONLY 
>a 3 pointer.

>Thurman Thomas fumbles....another T.O. (5th).
>Machine Gun Kelly is taken out because he cannot shoot
>his guns and is replaced by Frank Wright (WHO??!?!).

>Marino and crew have dissected and revealed the Bills for
>what they are, a high octane car without the right driver,
>a.k.a. "Machine Gun Kelly". It seems Kelly brought his water
>pistol instead.  WOOF WOOF! Hey, I am a NINER fan, but how
>does it feel to see your *16-0* team get beat by the FISH.
>And No, before the Buffalo fanatics go beserk. My comments
>are not in retribution for the Bills outscoring the Niners
>earlier this year. I call it as I see them and what I saw
>today was a better prepared offense/defense by the DOLFINs.
>Marino executed the offense to perfection and although the
>Bills looked like they could move the ball, they were not
>able to sustain their drives and consequently faltered.
>Like the announers stated, Miami TOOK this game away!
>It was not luck!  Keith Jackson was blessing! YES!

>Miami   37 Buffalo  10  * FINAL the FISH gobble the Buffalo Bills

>Indianapolis  24	 Tampa Bay  14  4th qtr.
>Chicago  20		    Minnesota  21  * FINAL How about this for a comeback!
>Green Bay	10	    Atlanta   24  * FINAL
>New Orleans	 3	    Detroit  7    * FINAL
                 ^^


 New Orleans    13          Detroit  7

------  John Gloria - jpglori@sysengr.pacbell.com	--------	
>  "Fact are facts and will not disappear on account of 
>   your likes."  -   Jawaharlal Nehru