From: jodar@aludra.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Labels.... (was: Re: Hatred? What Hatred?)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 00:27:33 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
Summary: Depends on who's labeling who....
Keywords: Muslims, Chetniks, et al

I previously wrote:
>>The only thing that has kept the Bosnian Muslims from declaring
>>Jihad is the fear of the non-Muslims.  

[ie. The Muslims weren't declaring Jihad out of courtesy to the
non-Muslims.]

>>But the Serbs (and Croats)
>>are killing off all of those who object to Jihad....

[Both Muslim and non-Muslim....  Those who are surviving are
beginning to see Jihad as an attractive alternative.]

Erland (sommar@enea.se) responded:
>Don't you think that the fact that main bulk of the Muslims in B-H
>actually cares very little about anything holy, be it Jihad or
>Allah, has something to do with it?

That was how this whole mess started.  Allah (SWT) says:

1)	Those who turn their backs on their Islam will be 
	given a warning, (eg. flood in Pakistan, earthquake
	in Egypt, etc.), then oppressed, then persecuted, 
	and finally killed;

2)	The day that Muslims start killing Muslims, (eg. the
	Gulf War), the Muslims will be overrun by their enemies
	and slaughtered by the thousands;

3)	Allah (SWT) will raise up new Muslims to replace those
	who went astray--Muslims who fear only Allah, who are
	Humble with the Believers (ie. those who do good), and
	Harsh with the Unbelievers (ie. those who do bad).

By now, however, those Muslims who have abandoned Islam are:
(a) dead; (b) fled the country and dying; or (c) returned to
Islam and taking up arms against the oppressors.

>It is quite threatening to see a lot of people screaming, and
>even go fighting, just because they happen to be called Muslims. 

Call them whatever you like.  We call them 'Believers,' and many
of them happen to be Muslim.

>Imagine if Tito had decided to call them Bosnians or Ottomans instead. 
>My guess that we would have been relieved most of the Islam fanatics
>we have seen in this group.
>
>I recall one the Muslims (as in ethnicity) distance himself from one
>of the Muslim (as in religion) fanatics who appeared in this group.
>It was very relieving to see.

What this person you refer to calls himself is between him and
Allah.  However, there is no such thing as an 'ethnic Muslim.'  
'Muslim' literally means 'one who submits (to Allah).'  While 
some people are Muslim in name only, the term is applied to 
those who follow Islam.  That is why you have families with some
Muslim members while the rest are non-Muslims.

How you define 'fanatic' I have no idea, but the only people
I've seen/read on this group who appear to fit that description
aren't Muslim....  In fact, the definition of 'Muslim' is almost
exactly the opposite of the definition of 'fanatic.'

Not that some people care how they label others....  I'm trying
to be more careful, myself.

No doubt about it, there's been a lot of labeling, lately, and 
much of it is questionable.  People talk about Muslims being an 
ethnicity or nationality when all it takes to be Muslim is a 
belief in Allah (SWT) and 'His' Prophet (SAW).  We see the 
Defenders in Bosnia being labeled 'Muslims' when in fact there 
are Jews and Christians among them.  We see the Aggressors in 
Bosnia being labeled 'the Serbs,' while there are many Serbs 
fighting against the pogrom.  (In fact, many are becoming 
Muslim....)

I would even question calling the Aggressors 'Chetniks'....

But one thing is certain:  EVERYbody is going to be held
accountable for their actions (ALL of them) on the Day of
Judgement, and NOT THE SLIGHTEST THING is going to be overlooked
by the Creator.

(I will be held accountable for every word in this article, as
well as the effect it may have on every person that reads it....)

That said, we now return to our regular broadcasting....

-AQ