HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:25:18 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

The "Schmuck-of-the-net" writes:
*mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes:
*|> In article <1992Sep29.222847.11002@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A 
*|> Tai) writes:
*|> >
*|> >"Eric":

OH NO!  He found the quotes' key!

*|> >
*|> >You're not more intelligent; you simply scored higher on a test
*|> >whose validity is questionable.
*|> 
*|> Just because he scored high on a test, that doesn't mean he *isn't* more
*|> intelligent.
*
*"John":
*
*True.  However, it is important to note that high IQ is a 
*necessary but *not sufficient* condition for high achievement, 
*while low IQ virtually assures failure at high academic and 
*occupational levels.

Are you referring to their actual intelligence or their score on a test?

`'"Scott,"'`

Mike Steiner flames you because you don't listen.  You have demonstrated this 
fact over the last few rounds of posting/flamage.  You post some questionable
info, refuse to answer questions/concerns about them and get flamed.  Then you
take a little break and the whole cycle repeats.  You even use your previous
pre-typed crap over and over again.  Mike just flames more quickly than I do.
Of course, I don't expect you to even read this post, much less think about 
it's implications; I'm posting this for the benefit of the people who missed
the previous rounds of flamage to give them a quick insight into the start
of all this flamage.

BTW, the point about giving your real name and address is a sign of good faith
as to your beliefs.  I always sign my posts because I am willing to take the
consequences (good or bad) for my posts/actions/beliefs.  I consider hiding
behind an alias to be a chickensh*t action in most cases.

*--
*Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
*NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
*Centennial Campus

Lock and Load the Flamethrowers.

***  Curt Swanson  ***  sonic@romulus.cray.com  ***  IOTTMCO  *********
HOME:n - That mythical place where you can go and relax.......
I'd rather be in a coma.........
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Etiquette - or lack thereof
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:22:41 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct2.092636.21188@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>"Rodney Adams" <RADAMS@BNR.CA> writes:

[ Lots of good stuff deleted for brevity]

>You and I don't sound so very different. The entire larger paragraph
>characterizes me as well.

Okay, I'm either at Woodstock or I've wandered into a singles bar...
>
>The ills of our society are, I think, caused by the failure to comprehend
>in what ways humans are mere animals, and the failure to integrate the
>higher and lower aspects of ourselves. So I object to the word "promiscuous",

Man, are you plagiarizing an article of mine?  I couldn't agree more.

>
>Maladapted - I cried recently to think how I could not know what I now know,
>without having gone through what I did to get here. & I forgave my life for
>what it is and has been. Maladapted, pfui - it's going to put bread on my
>table! Maladapted, Ha! We are all maladapted, misfits, crazy wanton children,
>full of life & love, and the Universe loves us for what we are. And we it in
>return, for the sacred gift of being and awareness.

I think this is reason for life itself.  If there were no actions neede
to maintain homeostasis, and no organism needed to replace itself
since it was complete and unalterable by itself, there would be no
reason for biology.

>-paraphrased from Amarcord? I think - Fellini:
>
>Woman, woman, where's my woman!!
>Woman, woman, I wanna Woman!!
>
>(Madonna need apply.)

Sorry, Eric.  She's busy at the moment.  Trust me.

>-ecsd

GMS
From: oconnell@physd1.phys.vt.edu (Richard Oconnell)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: N.O. Tai
Date: 30 Sep 1992 01:01:07 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Hmm.  In a kind of zen fashion, I really like having Tai and N.O. Tai at the
same time.
From: edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: The Providence of Astology
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:04:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntpd.1992Oct6.180419.3423
Reply-To: edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Oct6.055452.5153@tfs.com>, ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S.
Dynamic) writes:

>>In all fairness, why don't you post your own birth data?
. . .
>1017 EST 18 January 1956, Detroit, MI, 42N20 83W03
>
>Sun 27:31 Capricorn/11
>Moon 00:19 Aries/1
>Mercury 13:27 Aquarius/12
>Venus 01:17 Pisces/12
>Mars 02:30 Sag/9
. . .
>Mercury in my chart is 30 wall-clock minutes away from going retrograde.

But where was the doctor!?  The gravitational influence of the doctor is
greater than that of Mars or most other astronomic bodies.  We want a
detailed diagram of where the doctor was, where the midwife and various
assistants were, et cetera.


                                -- edp (Eric Postpischil)
                                "Always mount a scratch monkey."
                                edp@alien.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t// Re: Meaning of Intelligence
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:18:24 GMT


radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams) writes:
|> By the way, Mark, I liked your post detailing your valid complaints about
|> Scott and urging him to seek help.  However, this is apparently not the
|> work of a troubled individual seeking to share his views.  This is the
|> work of one or, likely, more individuals attempting to have fun at the expense
|> of those who read this newsgroup.

*GASP*

|> "Tai," this will be my last response to one of your articles, barring 
|> some drastic change in your posts or some unforeseen whim.  I now see
|> why you choose to hide behind a pseudonym.  Once the "joke" was revealed,
|> you would not want you real name(s) to be associated with this charade.

Hardly.  I just don't want to get bombed by Steiner flame scripts:

$ while true
> do
> echo tai sucks | mail tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
> done

$ yes "tai sucks" | mail tai@ailab.ncsu.edu

|> I have been so tolerant of you....  Why could you not show the decency
|> to step forth, admit to the mistakes you make, write coherent and consistent
|> articles, and let us see who you are and why you believe what you believe?

Fire away.  I thought I'd answered all the questions, but ask me anything.

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: "wrong" answers on IQ tests
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:41:19 GMT

In article <LHUMMEL.92Oct3182244@neptune.urbana.mcd.mot.com> lhummel@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Lionel Hummel) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.160210.3704@cbnewse.cb.att.com> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>
>>>> >Ha!  "Q" doesn't appear in the word, "Havana."  (You didn't say that "F" is
>>>> >the only word on the list that doesn't appear in the word "Havana.")
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, "A" is the only word on the list.
>>>
>>>True.  I meant "letter," not "word."
>
>> I knew that.  I was just yanking your chain.
>
>> But someone sent e-mail to me that said "their dictionary says they're
>> all words."  I know the dictionary lists a few definitions, such as
>> the ordinal ones (e. g., "F" is defined as the "sixth item in a
>> list"), but does that make letters words?  That would also contradict
>> the rule of a "word" necessarily having a vowel.  A-E-I-O-U and sometimes
>> "all the rest of the letters"?
>
>Tsk tsk.
>
>> Comments?
>
>Hmph!
>
>< Lionel


I assume this question and Lionel's authoritative response will
be included in the FAQ.

GMS
From: vance@cco.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa
Date: 4 Oct 1992 19:39:35 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: alumni.caltech.edu

>So what is Occam's Razor, again?
>-ecsd

  Why... it's what he uses to shave in the morning of course! :-)

. <= microdot sig
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 11:37:21 GMT

yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo) writes:
>1.  Occam's razor is not a LOGICAL necessity.  Its use is convention, as much

This leads me to display some ignorance (finally :)

I never remember what Occam's Razor is.
But that's not all.

I want to get out and do some broadsides against some things I see at large
and in the media. So I know there is a long list of logical fallacies,
with names. It would help me if someone will cite a book I can look them
"all" up in, or if some ardorous Virgo out there wants to list them here,
the kinds and names, with an example of each.

E.g. guilt-by-association, black-and-white, etc.
I'm looking for as complete a list as I can get.

So what is Occam's Razor, again?
-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Subject: Re: point of mensa?
Originator: cjdcosta@zepplin.ece.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:02:04 GMT


crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford) writes:


>"It is important to keep an open mind, but not so open that your
>brains fall out."  I 

"not so open" is rather subjective, don't you think? The scientific
community has on different occasions in history opined that the earth 
was flat, that gold could be synthesised, and that travelling faster 
than 35 mph would kill a human being. Fortunately there were those
who thought otherwise, and persisted inspite of those serious risks to 
their cerebral organs that you have voiced. 

>
>Are you one of those "radical relativists", Johnson, who believes
>that there is no truth so firmly established that its opposite need
>not be given equal intellectual status?

Actually, that's an interesting philosophy..I might find reason to 
subscribe to it someday. 

What I want to point out, though, is that keeping an open mind only
means not denying an opposing theory the possibility of existence. It
should not compromise your favorite opinions in any way. 

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t// t// REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY - 09/28/92
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:39:51 GMT


gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep29.003539.28070@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
|> >
|> >This is no definitive study here, but I have known enough people over enough 
|> >time from enough places that a pattern is quite clear: MENSA is considered 
|> >insignificant and ridiculous. Why should this be so?
|> >
|> 
|> Ironic that you should be so concerned, let alone consumed, with this.

It's nice to see some of us can still recognise irony.

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
Centennial Campus
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Geneticism
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:09:41 GMT

ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark) writes:
>I think this clearly shows that opinion can be instrumental on (if only in a
>minor way) evolution of the human animal.
>...
>But still there will be ethical implications of this survival of the unfit due
>to the intervention by medicine. Asthmatics and PKU sufferers that would
>have died just 50 years ago now survive with life-long drug supply. ...
>......................................................... I personally
>cannot see our current ideas of humanitarianism and human rights co-existing
>with our future survival.

The 'failure of selection' due to human compassion. Yet we recognize what
*we* want. I would not like to have been genetically disposed to myopia -
so genetic engineering might step in. Meanwhile, we still *do* select,
a controversial topic. I am in *love* with Roseanne Barr, and might mate
with her if we are sexually compatible. What am I to make of this?
Aha - selection due to *personality*. What does all this mean? I haven't
the faintest idea.

Thank you, thank you.
-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 07:16:07 GMT

I wrote:
>You said, "Using occult system X, I produced startingly accurate readings
>and flim-flammed folks, but I never believed in cartomancy," implying:
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^

Substitute "system X" for "cartomancy."


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Famous Mensans 
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:00:03 GMT

quam@hana.cs.ucla.edu (David Quam) writes:
>Try Isaac Asimov, who is (or used to be) the International Chair of MENSA.
>If Isaac Asimov, a genius by any standard, thought it was worthwhile to join
>MENSA, who in their right mind is going to argue?

People who'd rather read Philip K. Dick.
(sorry:)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ron@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ron Williams)
Subject: Re: t// REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY - 09/28/92
Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:52:11 GMT

Mike Steiner (mike_steiner@qm.claris.com) wrote:
: Because those who consider Mensa insignificant and ridiculous are themselves
: insignificant and ridiculous, and feel the need to vent their frustration
: about this fact, rather than seek the help they so obviously need.

Non Sequitur.

: 
: You are a pathetic representative of the human race, Tai.

Tsk tsk.

Really, you should both wipe the slate clean, get out your books on
elementary reasoning, and start over.

I recommend "Straight and Crooked Thinking", by Robert Thouless.

Take a course in NLP.
Buy a punching bag.

--
Ron Williams                  ACSnet : ron@syacus.acus.oz
Ph : +61 2 390-1366         Internet : ron@syacus.acus.OZ.AU
Fax: +61 2 390-1391             UUCP : uunet!munnari!syacus.acus.oz.au!ron
Standard Disclaimers Apply
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t-- Re: Circular Flames
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:43:08 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Sep30.230942.887@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>                    [stuff deleted]
>
>than the actual percentage from the population as a whole, in the US.
>Assuming this is correct, how can you say that your group ISN'T
>discriminatory?  Or do you just believe that these minority groups are
>unable to carry on intelligent conversations with white folk?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

("'!Scott'"#@

Sounds like a flame to me.  :)

-- 
John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:24:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.221718.10324@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
> 
> 
> jswthomp@milton.u.washington.edu (James Thompson) writes:
> 
> |> Hold it.  Reality check time.
> |> 
> |> According to many of the posts I've seen here, by Mensans defending the fact
> |> that Mensa doesn't accomplish anything, Mensa IS nothing more than a social
> |> club.  If you want to be considered significant, you have to DO something
> |> significant.
> |> 
> |> Of course, there's nothing wrong with being a social club.  People need
> |> social clubs.  Even if they're smart.  [Even if they're weird.]  It's just a
> |> little silly to get defensive when somebody says that that's all Mensa is.
> |> What do you want it to be?
> 
> This claim of joining MENSA for social reasons has always sounded hollow. 
> First, any area large enough for a MENSA chapter will also have any number 
> of other clubs, and any interest club on an intellectual subject will be 
> overloaded with intelligent people. Second, unless one is a gross 
> underachiever, anyone bright enough to qualify for MENSA will be 
> surrounded by intelligent people at college or at work. 

First, you are wrong.  There are Mensa chapters where there aren't any such
clubs.  Further, why should one have to join a different club for each
interest, when one can join Mensa and find people who are interested in virtually
all of those topics?

Second, what is your definition of "underachiever"?  Many of those of us who are
surrounded at work with intelligent people would like to get away from work once
in a while.  I spend eight to ten hours a day with my co-workers, I don't want
to restrict my socializing to them also.  That's not to say that I don't socialize
with them at times, but I want to socialize with other people as well.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson)
Subject: Re: t-- Re: t// t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:44:10 CDT

Scott Tai types:
*sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson) writes:
*|> `'"Scott,"'`
*|> 
*|> Mike Steiner flames you because you don't listen.  You have demonstrated this 
*|> fact over the last few rounds of posting/flamage.  You post some questionable
*|> info, refuse to answer questions/concerns about them and get flamed.  Then you
*|> take a little break and the whole cycle repeats.  You even use your previous
*|> pre-typed crap over and over again.  Mike just flames more quickly than I do.
*|> Of course, I don't expect you to even read this post, much less think about 
*|> it's implications; I'm posting this for the benefit of the people who missed
*|> the previous rounds of flamage to give them a quick insight into the start
*|> of all this flamage.
*
*You ask, "Why is this guy going on like this?"  

No, I only answered your question to Mike S. about why he attacks you.  I 
don't care anymore about why you go on like you do.  I have much better things
to concern myself with.  You know, the thing you said you had a few months
ago but have apparently lost?

*I really believe that you 
*guys deserve to be kicked in the ass every now and then by someone who 
*studies the brain SCIENTIFICALLY.  And I am no exception to the ass-kicking.  
*Kick back, I will enjoy it.  I enjoy intelligent debate, for it makes me and 
*those I debate stronger in the process.

Interesting.  You keep saying that you enjoy intelligent debate but I have
yet to see anything more than proposals and theories from you.  No rebuttals,
nada.  Although, I will admit your last question about the "separate but 
equal" is intriguing.  Could you elaborate?

*--
*Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu

Mine's real, why isn't yours?

***  Curt Swanson  ***  sonic@romulus.cray.com  ***  IOTTMCO  *********
HOME:n - That mythical place where you can go and relax.......
I'd rather be in a coma.........
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Boston Mensa RG
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:02:52 GMT

Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner) writes:

>I note in the NH Mensa newsletter an ad for your upcoming RG.  It lists many
>activities (including babysitting) for kids.  I'd like to learn more. 
>Specifically:  hasn't any thought been given to any age limits?  Any particular
>babysitter/baby ratio?  I have kids who will have just turned two and three, and
>haven't really seriously considered attending any gatherings because of them. 
>Should I consider this one?

The NH RG has a track for kids.  I'm not sure how their babysitting program
works.  The Boston RG had babysitting last year.  It worked by recruiting
volunteers for the day shift, and a paid sitter for Saturday night.  I 
believe the parents split the cost of the paid sitter.  The room was free.
Boston will have the same or similar arrangements this year.

-rich
-- 
             Richard H. Schwartz, Scheduling Systems Inc.,
            1000 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA  02138
                  (617) 864 8330; FAX (617) 864 8377
                          rhs@world.std.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jswthomp@milton.u.washington.edu (James Thompson)
Subject: Re: Magik
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 07:30:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.181838.29815@ncsu.edu> bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS) writes:
>
>I am curious as to what the people of Mensa think about witchcraft, magick and shamanism.

I deeply believe that magic should always be spelled without a 'k'.

Jim
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Muchow D.: About Nothing ==> NOT HARDLY
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:10:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Sep29.201055.26794
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep29.062741.18996@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>>muchow@venus.iex.com (Don Muchow) writes:
>>>A barber shaves everyone who does not shave him(or her)self, and does not
>>>shave anyone who does shave him(/her)self.
>>>
>>>There are no linguistic loopholes or other similar tricks here.  Now, the
>>>question is: Does the barber shave himself?
>>>
>>>I know there is some sort of logical fallacy here, or something like one, or
>>>perhaps this question is just a freak of nature.
>
>>Yes.  The premise you've stated is false.
>>
>>GMS
>
>Nothing trivial here. This is Russell's paradox, and ultimately ties into
>Godel, as I recall. There are three set theories, one of which is plagued
>by this paradox, and one of which is not, more than that I don't recall.
>
>It has to do with whether domains can contain themselves, and whther your
>axioms get you into trouble.

They have.  As have the assumptions of the limitations of the number
of groups.

>
>If I could do math symbols in this medium, I could write the thing down
>in a fairly clear fashion. Go browse set-theory books in a math section
>somewhere, look up Russell's paradox. It has another name in a variation
>(as I aslo recall.)
>
>-ecsd

You can.  Do it.  TIA

GMS