From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: Incorrect Orgasms? (was: Please explain this quote)
Organization: LLNL
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:06:43 GMT

In article <84wqTB5w164w@cellar.org> revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes:
>sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

: Notice that the acceptance of "vaginal intercourse as undesirable"
: implies that a man should attempt to pleasure a woman in the same
: way that a lesbian does. Notice that it also implies that, in
: lovemaking, the penis has very little value, and is in fact something 
: of a nusiance. Now, coming as it does from the feminist movement,
: whose leadership leans heavily toward lesbianism, it is difficult 
: NOT to see in this teaching a 'hidden agenda'. Clearly, this belief
: constitutes a powerful weapon in the feminist war against the phallus.
: Given the great malleability of human sexual response, the claim 
: that "most women cannot orgasm from penis/vagina intercourse" (a claim
: which, from what I understand, is far less believed among Europeans)
: may be rather less a description of a situation than an attempt to create
: one.

>	You know, I'm glad I buffer Robert's posts-- hardly anyone I know
>actually believes that a human being can be so consumed with sexual
>paranoia. Not content to postulate a weird conspiracy of lesbian feminists
>seeking to deprive men of sexually-responsive women (a theory Robert
>created, no doubt, shortly after that water-fluoridation and
>purity-of-essence insight), Robert seems to feel that men's use of
>techniques other than penile penetration is the _only_ legitimate way to
>experience orgasm. (He did say this, you realize; penile penetration is
>about the only method lesbians _can't_ use. Last I checked, when girls wanna
>have fun, they tend to be pretty creative at it.)

>	So, methinks Robert, being areal man, eschews such 'lesbo' methods
>as manual stimulation, delicate licking of the nipples, healthy back
>massages, kneading muscle tension down the legs, and especially
>cunnilingus-- the insidious plot of lesbians everywhere, eh?

>	"War against the phallus?" "Lesbian wars?" The guy's beginning to
>sound like Dr. Benway. 

>Rev. P-K-- "I, for one, encourage all males to learn sexual techniques from
>lesbians. Strong Tongues make for a Strong America-- we've licked Bush, so
>let's keep ON licking bush for four MORE years!" :-}


	And if you want some details, here are some from Madonna's
most recent album, _Erotica_ (the song called "Where Life Begins"):


I'd like to direct your attention
To something that needs directing to
A lot of people talk about
Dining in and eating out
I guess that's what this song's about

I know that this is not a dining room conversation
And you don't have to listen if you don't have the time
But let me remind you
In case you don't already know
Dining out can happen down below

Everybody's talking 'bout
Wanting that and needing this
I'd just like to know
If you'd like to learn
A different kind of kiss

(Chorus)
So won't you
Go down
Where it's warm inside
Go down
Where I cannot hide
Go down
Where all life begins
Go down
That's where my love is

Now what could be better than a home cooked meal
How you want to eat it
Depends on how you feel
You can eat all you want
And you don't get fat
Now where else can you go for a meal like that
It's not fair to be selfish or stingy
Every girl should experience eating out
Sometimes when I come home from a hard day at work
I swear it's all I can think about

Everybody's talking 'bout
Wanting that and needing this
I'd just like to know
If you'd like to learn
A different kind of kiss

(Chorus)

Colonel Sanders says it best "Finger Lickin' Good"
Let's put what you've learned to the test
Can you make a fire without using wood
Are you still hungry
Aren't you glad we came
I'm glad you brought your raincoat
I think it's beginning to rain

Everybody's talking 'bout
Wanting that and needing this
I'd just like to know
If you'd like to learn
A different kind of kiss

(Chorus)

(Chorus)

That's where my love is
Come inside
That's where all life begins
Come inside


	One final thing: this song, at least from a phallocentric
perspective, might be interpreted as proof that Madonna is a closet
lesbian. Is that fair?


/Loren