From: ta00est@unccvax.uncc.edu (elizabeth s tallant)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: a little confused...
Summary: f
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:46:55 GMT
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte

In article <dove.702708169@elaine9.Stanford.EDU>, dove@elaine9.Stanford.EDU (Dav Somebody) writes:
> here's a little something interesting i found while thumbing through
> the good book.  (ok ok, actually it's someone's finger plan)

Before I get started, I know that you did
not cook this up all by yourself - you found at least part of it
somewhere else, and I won't start a flame war by saying where it
comes from.  My question to you is to know whether you really want
to know the answer, or whether you're simply trying to plant doubts
in people's heads by pulling sentence fragments out of passages, whereas
if you would have typed the whole passage you would have provided
us with the answer.


> For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law.
> Rom 2:1
> 
> For where no law is, there is no transgression.  Rom 4:15
> ---
 
Keep reading.  Sin is not taken into account when there is no law
against that sin.  In spite of this liberty, everyone has still sinned
under a law that was in effect, thus everyone will persih without 
salvation from sin, which comes only from the Messiah.

> Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
> Exod 33:20
> 
> And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his
> friend.  Exod 33:11
> 
> And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to
> face, and my life is preserved.  Gen. 32:30
> ---
>

Under the Old Covenant, no one could see God's *glory* and live.  If 
you keep on reading, it says that God covered Moses when His glory
passed by,  but allowed Moses to see the rest of him.  The patriarchs
could not see God's glorified face, but they could see his face when
he removed the glory.  When God told Moses he could not look upon his
face and live, his face must have been glorified at that moment.  

> Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be
> tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.  James 1:13
> 
> And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham.
> Gen 22:1
> 
> ---
>

 Get a correct translation!  

> Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any
> thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
> that is in the water under the earth.  Exod 20:4
> 
> And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou
> make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.  Exod 25:18
> 
> ---

Once again, keep reading that passage in Exodus 20.  It immediately
follows that you cannot make a graven image to worship.  It doesn't
say you can't make images.


> The doers of the law shall be justified.  Rom 2:13
> 
> By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified.  Rom 3:20
> 
> ---

Simple.  If we could keept the whole law, then we would be justified.
But since no one has ever kept the law, then no one has been justified
by the law.

> 
> There is nothing too hard for thee ... Behold, I am the Lord, the God
> of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?  Jer 32:17,27
> 
> And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the
> mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley,
> because they had chariots of iron.  Judg 1:19
> 
> ---

It was Judah that couldn't drive out the chariots.  Get a correct translation!

> 
> Be not afraid of them that kill the body...  Luke 12:4
> 
> After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in
> Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.  John 7:1
> 
> ---

Jesus wasn't afraid of them.  It just simply was not his appointed
time to die, nor was this the way he was supposed to die. 

> 
> I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the
> fathers upon the children... Exod 20:5
> 
> The son shall not bear the iniquities of the father... Ezek 18:20
> ---

ANd once again, if you would have typed just the rest of the sentence,
then you would have answered your own question.  To paraphrase the whole
sentence, "I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of
the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those
who hate me, but blessing those for a thousand generations of those who
love me."  Since a thousand generations well outweighs three or four
generations, we can see that God will bless someone who loves him irregardless
of the parent's actions. 

Elizabeth
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc