From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: ISO Bi-Fem and Girlfriend
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:09:34 GMT

muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:
>>ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis) writes:
>>>would seem to indicate a high degree of interoperability.  However, 
>>>most ANSI standard bi-poly females I know tend to be somewhat put off
>>>by men whose sole reason in them is that they happen to be bisexual and 
>>>polyamorous.  You might have better luck with the male version, though.
>>---
>>Why is there this tendancy in humans, but it seems, especially in
>>women, that as soon as they find out you want something, they are
>>likely to withhold it or raise the price?
>
>>In other words, even if they might have liked it also and/or given
>>it away for free, if you indicate interest, they will hold back
>>in some manner.
>
>It is not the "indicating interest" that causes women (or anyone, I
>would think) to be "put off," it is the fact that the interest is in a
>single feature, rather than the whole person.  For example, if someone
>was interested in you for no other reason than that you had blond hair,
>and they would have sex with you without even wanting to know anything
>else about you, would you find that appealing?  Perhaps you would, I do
>not know.  I know that I would not, and do not.  If a person wants to
>sleep with just a feature, they can find someone besides me to do it
>with.
>
>I have heard men complain that women are only interested in money,
>status, or success.  What if a woman lit up when she found out that you
>had a couple thousand dollars in your pocket?  Would you be pleased?
>
>Muffy

Yeah, Muffy, we've heard it before. If I see you as a sexually desirable
female and I reflect that to you immediately upon meeting you, inasmuch
as there's no doubt between us that having sex with you has already crossed
my mind -- if the next thing you do is make it known to me that my desire
is unacceptable, you've cancelled our interaction. You might try smiling and
saying "Hi, what's your name?", because *you* haven't any further notion of
my intentions beyond what you already see. The notion that men who allow their
desire to show should be whipped and rejected by women is horseshit; it's
*one* point of view amongst many. I've tried to argue that since sexual desire
is so innate, we-all should acknowledge it and let it pass between people
without judgement. You and others seem to think that people should live in
some sort of closet in their interpersonal interactions for some indefinite
time, without feedback and trying desperately to suppress the mutual awareness
of the truth until everyone "feels safe". That to me is not a "safe" world;
not all of us are equally adept at preventing awareness in the other person
that we are sexual creatures. If I am self-honest, my sexuality and my desire-
nature are not in doubt AT ALL for anyone encountering me. Most contexts are
sexual contexts for me because my affectional nature is so strong and my
imagination so quick. Sex is part of the essence of my being. So your
personal discomfort can generalize into a theory of "correct interpersonal
interaction" around feelings you do and do not wish to have, but your theories
do not account for all so many people. Ask most men who have not been
psychoemotionally castrated by the society (great white western christian)
Does it usually cross your mind, to have sex with the even-marginally-
attractive woman you see in front of you, and the answer is YES; Do you think
this reflexively without conscious intervention, YES; Do you understand that
reality is much more complex than getting in the female's pants in the next
minute, YES; Do you understand that you have to live with these facts in your
conscious awareness while still discharging your interpersonal social
obligations, YES; Do you understand that trying to suppress the desires or
recognition of them is hopeless without having a lobotomy, YES.

You should admit that your feelings do not generalize into "the" theory that
*everyone must accept*. The first step is to ask why you are uncomfortable
*in yourself* about having your desirability reflected to you. Everyone is
a sexual creature. Can we admit this and get to the 1st verbal exchange of
our interaction, on the idea that *maybe* just because the sexual currents
are there does *not* mean that is all that is in the *man's* mind?

I've wrestled with this problem for 3 decades and have finished my analysis
of it. If people shy away from me for sensing my sexual energy or intention -
*they* are afraid; *I'm* normal. I am not overt, aggressive or crude. I don't
like sex jokes very much. I don't harrass women. But I have desire through
every fiber of my being. If the woman I face fears this, she fears life itself.
That's not my failure to "be polite".

-ecsd
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory