From: Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Crowley's Significance? (Hitler)
Distribution: world
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:19:40 PDT
Organization: Shades of Reality BBS - Medford, Oregon

In a message dated Sun 30 Aug 92  5:04, jasonp@cunix4.Prime.COM (Jason R.
Pascucci) wrote:

 JRP> Tagi! I'm suprised at you....

 JRP> In article <64894@cup.portal.com>, Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred
 JRP> Nagashiva) writes:
> 9208.29 e.v.
> 
> Tom:
> 
> Probably the game some black
> magicians are playing today is plotting the extermination of the human 
> race (after all, what will it matter to them since they won't be around
> much longer? At least, that's their attitude.)
> 
> 
> Response:
> 
> Note how this sounds.  It is equivalent to the fundamentalist exhortation
> of 'Satanists' and the White Supremacist's of 'coloreds'.  Beware.
> Black magicians are more than you think.  In Japan, it is WHITE which is
> associated with death.
> 

 JRP> You, Tagi, seem to be the one who is turning words into
 JRP> (potentially wrong) thought-forms. Break out of your own mold. 
 JRP> Tom has hit apon a real significance, although perhaps
 JRP> he doesn't understand how he hit apon it. 'Black' magicians,
 JRP> and in reality (if I can use that term) all developing Magi, 
 JRP> are plotting to exterminate the human race. A perfectly acceptable
 JRP> goal, methinks. (Personally, I feel you simply picked on the
 JRP> wrong points to argue about.)

What?????  Tell me how it is that you came to the knowledge of the aims of
the balc magicians?  The term is relative.  The use of the word "black" in
this context derives from religious ignorance.  To me, a Black Brother is
some one who interferes with the Universal Will by constantly forcing some
oppressive religious dogma on the rest of the world... and THIS my friend,
is going to lead to the distruction of the world.

> Tom:
> 
> More conventional practitioners of "magick" (otherwise known as
> scientists :-) have brought tremendously destructive forces (such as the
> hydrogen bomb) into the world. So you ought to think about what lies at
> the end of this amoral road. Ethics and morality do have a useful place
> in human life, despite what the black magicians say.
> 
> 
> Response:
> 
 JRP> [deleted]
> symptom.  The PROBLEM is a lack of meditation.  Repressed energies
> surface regardless of how we may attempt to eschew them.

 JRP> Wow, like, how new age, man. Perhaps the problems are deeper than
 JRP> you might think. 

Meditation implies concentration and control of thought.  Try it sometime.

> Most 'magicians' who engage in what you would call 'amoral activities'
> consider themselves 'WHITE MAGI'.  Few, like myself, consider ourselves
> BLACK and then I mean 'deriving my magick from the unconscious mind.'
> Your use of terms is both divisive and ignorant, as I see it.
> 

 JRP> Amoral? I didn't see him use that word, but I haven't really
 JRP> been paying attention. Person who consider themselves (never
 JRP> mind what they tell the world) White or Black are pretty
 JRP> divisive and ignorant, as I see it. It's nice that you decided
 JRP> to take a perfectly acceptable word (BLACK) and turn it into
 JRP> something irrevelant (deriving my magick from the unconscious
 JRP> mind). That neither confirms, nor denies, Being 'Black'
 JRP> as the uninitiated mind understands it, so using this as
 JRP> an argument is unreasonable. 

 JRP> (case in point: A person accuses me of being a pink. I say
 JRP> I am a pink, but know that pink in my instance means
 JRP> a blue, and go forth to state that. It doesn't mean anything.)

> Tom:
> 
> Personally I believe in reincarnation so I hope any black magicians 
> plotting our doom and the end of human life as we know it will fail in 
> their task ... also don't be fooled into thinking there is some secret 
> useful knowledge in "magick" that scientists don't know about 
> (scientists are very devious creatures :-) Most people I've met who
> consider themselves to be black magicians impress me as being rather 
> stupid (And California is full of such nut cases, believe me :-)
> 
> Response:
> 
> Great, now you enlist 'state rivalry'.  The technique you
> are using in this post is the exact tactic used by the 'Great Men'
> which you deride and seem to fear:  divide and conquer.  You divide
> by separating out (black/white, California/other US states, etc.),
> and then you attack.  I hope that your words do not inspire the use
> of violence against perceived 'black magicians'.
> 
> Most modern scientists know little of Magick.  Most mages who call
> themselves 'black magicians' ARE stupid.  Either that, or, like me,
> they are prepared for martyrdom.
> 

 JRP> You make a grand claim to non-stupidity, my friend Tagi! :)
 JRP> Prepared for Martyrdom? Hah! What a concept. Definately sounds
 JRP> like a person disturbed. (What was that, the Klingons called
 JRP> Kirk? A swaggering little dictator, with illusions of godhood?
 JRP> Or something....) And, perhaps a side note, calling (naming?)
 JRP> yourself
 JRP> anything implies you Know Thyself. One finds it difficult to
 JRP> believe
 JRP> that one who truely Knows Thineself would make that comment. 

Of couse, you couldn't possibley be implying that he does not know himself.
It is such a difficult task to know ones self, how much more difficult is
it for you to Know him?

> Tom:
> 
> By the way, "blitzkrieg" (the tactics Hitler used to conquer
> so many nations) was invented by a disciple of Crowley (see
> "Memoirs of an Unconventional Soldier" (J.F.C. Fuller) and
> the "plan 1919" material.
> 
> Response:
> 
> Neat trivia.  Another was that Crowley engaged in the propaganda war
> by writing things against England which were used by the Germans.
> Lots of people contributed to Germany's success.  Not all of them are
> 'enemies'.  Love is understanding the actions of others, not condemning
> them.  There is ignorance everywhere.  Happiness does not arise from
> placing ourself above another.

 JRP> Perhaps happiness arises only from martyrdom.

It worked for Jesus.
> 
> Invoke me under my stars.   Love is the law, love under will.
> 
> I am I!
> 
> Frater (I) Nigris (666)

 JRP> Two students of the great Mu-mon walked down the road,
 JRP> and, having walked far enough, met themselves. 
 JRP> The first believed the image was god, and bowed to homage.
 JRP> The second believed the image was god, and slew him, and continued.
 JRP> Both were happy. Neither were enlightened. 

Love is the Law.
Gerald


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