From: mylene@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Mylene Pijpers)
Subject: Re: Numbers and language
Organization: Elec Eng, Univ of Western Australia
Date: 15 Apr 92 02:19:59 GMT

In <92105.140336SPIT@EVALUN11.BITNET> Werenfried Spit <SPIT@EVALUN11.BITNET> writes:

>In article <29E9ED82.24577@noiro.acs.uci.edu>, cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis
>Maria Cortese) says:
>>
>>
>>Why is this?  It seems almost like numbers are kept separate from words
>>in a brain.  And I'm not talking about not knowing the word for 1,000
>>either.  I can say dix-neuf cent blah blah blah, but damn it, when I see
>>1992, my brain goes "nineteen ninety two" right off the bat.  When I see

>One of the reasons might be that numbers are written the same no
>matter the language (sticking to latin and cyrillic alphabets for
>a moment). That makes it just too easy to regard them half consciously
>as words from your own language. It also depends on what you use a
>language for: I have no problem with numbers in english; maybe partly
>due to the fact that almost all physics reading and discussing I do
>is in english -- I see and use the numbers so frequently that I have
>also mastered them, finally.
                     ^^^^^^^
>Maybe there is a neurologist around who can tell us something about
>locations of speech and calculating centres in the brain. As far as
>arithmetic is concerned I can imagine that it is performed independent
>from speech, but I don't know.




I think it is performed independent/somewhere else, but no facts
around here (well, maybe somewhere inside my brain...)


Maybe you can see numbers and counting as a different language
altogether. The way you can see 'mathematics' as a language you learn.
OOPS! I speak even more languages than I thought I did! (But my
'mathematics' is definitely quite basic)
If you have to sum forty-two and fifty-eight you translate those words 
to another level/language, do your sums and translate the results back
to the language you speak. (you have to express them somehow) 
If you write them down you possibly don't have to use a specific 
'language' like english or dutch.


*my experience*
If you need to keep track of your counting, you use the language that
is easiest for you.

I noticed the other day that I was counting the stitches on my 
knitting-needle in my old dialect. I grew up speaking a dutch dialect, 
learned standard language at school, writing in standard language only.
Then came university, standard language around me, dialect with
some friends and during the weekends back home.
Recently I moved to an english-speaking country, I speak standard dutch
at home (husband & baby), occasionally some dialect on the telephone,
and there is english all around me. But I don't feel myself to be in the
'finally' stage yet.

In my experience I count in the language I am closest to at that
moment (e.g. at home, while speaking with my husband I would count
in standard dutch), maybe changing to
an easier one, when a lot of counting has to be done.

---------------------------
1 day later,


At which point I stopped writing, 
going back to my work (with lots of numbers in it). To FEEL what is
happening etc.etc. And I forgot all about this.

Anyway, we can all go home and experiment on our friends.
Make them count apples, or maybe stitches on your knitting-needles,
while speaking to them in all kind of different languages.
Maybe grab some bilingual kids and make them do sums. 



I mean, we are merely speaking from personal feelings/experiences.
Is there any scientific work done in this area? I guess so.

Is there any use in it for me? Like a method to learn counting in
a second language. 


etc.etc.



Mylene
Newsgroups: sci.lang