HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sem@mitre.org (Stan McQueen)
Subject: Re: Computers killing people?  (WAS Re: 9 track data storage???)
Organization: Mitre Corporation, Bedford, MA.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:04:01 GMT

In article <1400@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> oliver@cs.uwindsor.ca (Timothy Oliver) writes:

> In article <1992Aug12.163016.11684@cbnews.cb.att.com> >
lbd@cbnews.cb.att.com (linda.b.dunlap) writes: 

>> I remember hearing a rumor that printers sent to Iraq were
>> programmed to upload (something) into radar installations to give
>> erroneous data. First, is it possible?  Second, anyone else heard such
>> a thing?


> No, it is NOT possible.  There are not data lines that go FROM the
> printer TO the computer. The only line that go to the computer are
> status lines (in a PARELLEL port).

So how do data transfer cables that use the parallel port work?  How
about add-on hard disk drives for laptop computers that likewise use
the parallel port?

> With a SERIAL port, maybe. But very unlikely. Few printers have the
> transmit data line hooked up. But any signal that comes in though the
> serial port MUST be read by a programme and any programme that writes
> to a serial printer will reject anything other than the paper out
> signal, pinter not ready signal, etc.

Surely, if I write a program that writes to a serial printer I can
make that program do something other than reject the above signals.
Are you saying that it is _impossible_ for the contractor that
supplied the equipment and the programs to have written the programs
to behave in any fashion other than the way you have described?



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sem@mbunix.mitre.org	                              "The right to buy weapons
Stan McQueen                                          is the right to be free."
The MITRE Corporation                                         -- A. E. van Vogt
1259 Lake Plaza Dr.                                 "The Weapon Shops of Isher"
Colorado Springs, CO 80906
719-527-2470
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12754 alt.religion.computers:478 rec.humor:26489
From: fwebb@star-trek.bbn.com (Fred Webb)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.computers,rec.humor
Subject: A joke
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:24:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.l957utINN9fr
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman, Inc., Cambridge, MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: archive.bbn.com

What are:

    as god.s

    macro god.mac

    masm god.asm


(Drum roll)


    Assemblies of God!


(Credit for the invention of this joke belongs to John Delsignore, one
of my collegues.  Blame for posting it is mine, all mine.)

					-- Fred
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Computers killing people?
Date: 22 Aug 92 01:53:01 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <4081@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us> aki@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us writes:
>YES, but it sounds so absurd to put the virus into the PRINTER!  Just
>think about this.  The virus can't get from the printer into the CPU

No, you are viewing this all wrong.
The box looks like a printer, it acts like a printer, but my
Impossible Missions Force (IMF) got a hold of it.  Start fuse music.

You need to look at the box as an opportunity.
One of the arts of warfare is to do the unexpected.
You need to look upon the printer box as a challenge:
Given you know this Printer Box is going into enemy terrority,
come up with creative ways to turn it into a weapon of your advantage.
Consider the problems of cost (time, money, etc.)i, detection, back fire,
intended effect, and life time value.  The objective is to contribute
to killing your enemy (killing real people, like turning Rogomatic into a
real killing machine) and other methods of inflicting casualities.
Are you up to the task?  If yes: get to work.  If no, the Secretary has
disavowed all knowledge of your actions.

The reality is: we will probably never know.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Subject: Re: Robin Hood and Friar Tuck
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 05:00:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 


In response to the request for a recount of the Robin Hood story, here
is the version that is found in "The Devouring Fungus - Tales of
the Computer Age"

pp83

Back in the mid-1970's, programmers at a company using a time-sharing 
systems rented from a major computer firm found that the security was
easily bypassed. They informed the firm, only to be ignored. So a few of
them slipped two rambunctios programs into the system: Robin Hood and
Friar Tuck. Robin and Friars stunts included having tape drives rewind and
dismount in mid-job;sending disk drives swinging back and forth so
rapidly that they would start to walk across the floor;and making the
system's two card readers alternate shooting program cards  into each
others baskets, creating a mess that had to be cleaned up by hand. Robin
Hood and Friar Tuck even commandeered the system console so that they
could print snide comments about programmers to one another.

Ther operating system developers found the renegade programs, but as soon as  they
killed one, the other instantly resurected it. When they
tried to kill Robin Hood, it printed "Friar Tuck, I am under
attack! Pray save me!" and Friar Tuck replied " Fear not,
Robin, I shall rout the Sheriff of  Nottingham's men!" reviving
the green rebel who responded " Thank you my good fellow"

The only way to kill both programs was to gun them down simulatneously,
which was almost impossible. Desparate, the developers crashed the
system in hopes of destroying the brigands. But when they restarted it
the friat and his green companion sprang up again. The
programmers finnally forced the 
merry fellows into oblivion by rebooting the entire system and 
starting fresh."

This was taken from the above mentioned book by Karla Jennings,

Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12607 comp.human-factors:1793 comp.misc:3246 comp.programming:2343
From: minow@Apple.COM (Martin Minow)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.human-factors,comp.misc,comp.programming
Subject: Re: Indentation
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:10:21 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Aug14.175408.3096@bnrmtl.bnr.ca> patrick@bnr.ca asks
about computer languages that use indentation to indicate block structure.

Userland Frontier, a scripting language for the Macintosh, uses indentation
to indicate scope. Each line begins with a triangle: open triangles indicate
that the scope is displayed, closed triangles indicate "hidden" scope.
This has the nice advantage that you can edit a script and need only pay
attention to the parts of the script you are interested in, collapsing
the rest. One other nice feature is that scoping also works for comments,
so your function documentation can be expanded or contracted by the user
as needed.

Similar ideas were available in some research Pascal implementations in
the mid-1980's, but I can't point to references. Algol-60 and the languages
derived from Algol-58 (Mad, Jovial) were probably the earliest computer
languages with nested block structure. (Well, Lisp, too.) They all had
printing conventions that used indentation to indicate block scoping.

Martin Minow
minow@apple.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: bohdan@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (bohdan.l.bodnar)
Subject: Re: Early Programable calculators.
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:59:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.200622.8105@twg.com> nolan@twg.com writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug12.170023.7223@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, aduell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Tony Duell) writes:
>
>|>While agreeing that the HP9100 is an early programmable machine, and worth
>|>preserving (I want one!!!!), is it really the second progarammable ever
>|>produced.  The Casio AL1000 certainly predated it , and I think the AL2000
>|>did also (1968???) although the latter used integrated circuits.
>|>-tony 'PDP11 Hacker' Duell
>|>ard@siva.bris.ac.uk
>
>OK, folks, let's hear it for the Olivetti P101 desktop engine. I believe that
>it predates the HP and the Casio, but I trust that you all will correct me if
>I'm in error
>
>--
>Nolan Hinshaw
>Internet: nolan@twg.com			Dingalingnet: (415)962-7197	
>"If you don't know how to do something, you don't know how to do it
> with a computer." David Wittenberg, in Risks Digest 13.70
>"Boy, was I in for a dose of reality." Randall K. Abler
>"... necrophilia doesn't really hurt anybody."  Rick Gordon
>"Well, first of all, your stance is too wide"
>

How about Wang's programmable calculators?  As I recall, floating point
calculations were implemented via addition of logarithms and a lookup table.
Rather sophisticated machines for their time...

Bohdan Bodnar
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: rh@smds.com (Richard Harter)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Indentation
Date: 16 Aug 92 04:52:45 GMT
Reply-To: rh@ishmael.UUCP (Richard Harter)
Organization: Software Maintenance & Development Systems, Inc.

In article <7043@charon.cwi.nl> guido@cwi.nl (Guido van Rossum) writes:
GR: norman@a.cs.okstate.edu (Norman Graham) writes:
GR: 
NG: From article <1992Aug14.175408.3096@bnrmtl.bnr.ca>, by pat@bnrmtl.bnr.ca (Patrick Smith):
PS: In article <1992Aug14.170444.1576@tandem.com>, tvv@tandem.com (Tom Van Vleck) writes:
TV: BTI computer systems had an implementation language called DRAGON, in
TV: which the indentation WAS the loop/if scope indicator.

PS: An interesting idea.
PS: Does anyone know how well this worked in practice?

NG: In systems I've used, it works well. I believe this mechanism 
NG: (called 'layout' or 'off-side rule') originated in Peter Landin's
NG: work on Iswim in the mid-60's. The layout mechanism has been 
NG: adopted by most of the purely functional programming languages
NG: designed in the past 10 years (eg. Miranda and Haskell).  The use
NG: of layout seems to be generally regarded as a good thing by those
NG: in the functional programming community.

GR: Some other languages using this: occam, ABC, Python.  None of these
GR: originate in the functional programming community, although one could
GR: say their designers liked elegance.  In the latter two cases, you can
GR: judge for yourself how well it works: source for both languages
GR: (portable to UNIX, PCs and Macs) can be ftp'ed from ftp.cwi.nl.  Both
GR: are interpreted, interactive languages; ABC is ideal for teaching
GR: first concepts of programming, Python operates in the same area as
GR: Perl, Icon or Tcl.

If my understanding is correct the off-side rule is not at all the same
as using indentation as the loop/if scope indicator.  The off-side rule
really controls the circumstances for continuing a statement from one
line to the next.

Lakota also uses the identation=loop/if scope indicator.  [Like Python,
Lakota is interpreted, and operates in the Perl/Icon/Tcl neck of the
woods.]

Our experience is that this is a definite win (besides being elegant).
It presumably does eliminate a class of coding bugs -- there is never
a conflict between apparent scope as indicated by indentation and actual
scope as controlled by delimiters.  More subtly, it automatically enforces
a certain amount of uniformity of style.  Uniformity of style is, of course,
a religious issue -- we all know the "right" way to write code.  However
standardized style is much less of an issue if the language automatically
leads one to a standard style.

-- 
Richard Harter: SMDS Inc.  Net address: rh@smds.com Phone: 508-369-7398 
US Mail: SMDS Inc., PO Box 555, Concord MA 01742.    Fax: 508-369-8272
In the fields of Hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: ian@centric.com (Ian Macky)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Classic opcodes...
Summary: HCF lives!
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:45:30 GMT
Organization: Centric Engineering Systems
Originator: ian@falcon

It was just revealed to me that on a Sun 670MP:

    % nm /vmunix | grep halt_and
    f8005058 T _halt_and_catch_fire

HCF lives!

--ian
From: avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: SAGE
Date: 16 Aug 1992 15:45:20 -0400
Organization: Berkeley Software Design
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

In article <16klveINNgj4@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes) writes:
>
>I have a favorite metaphor for SAGE and a lot of other systems: the model
>railroad.
>
>A model railroad is a project that can consume any amount of money and
>creative effort to build, and is a lot of fun to operate and watch in
>operation, but performs no real-world useful function.

I once wrote a controlling program for a model railroad for a
real-world fault-tolerant real-time system (TA-100). The working model
was a hit on exhibitions :-) [One of the real-life appications of the
system was controlling switches and lights of the REAL railroads :-)]

--vadim
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favori
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:12:31 GMT

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>>>Instruction sets *are* that similar, that's why I take the position against the
>>>obsolescence notions.
>>
>>Sure. Now, go write code for a 1401, a Cray X-MP and a CDC 6x00, and
>>then come back and tell me how similar they are.
>
>Over several decades things will tend to eventually change.  The response was
>to what's more-or-less current now.

Uh huh.  And it's easy to switch between SPARC, RS/6000, HPPA, M88K,
R4000, and Alpha.  Having had to write code on most of these in under
a year lemme tell ya they're not too similar once you get by basic
concepts (and even basic concepts vary -- like "registers" on the
SPARC).

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12493 comp.arch:8881
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.arch
Subject: Re: Babbage books (was: Proposal: Computer History Project)
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:51:44 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <1992Aug13.015416.1@cc.curtin.edu.au>, zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi) writes:

| His use of chamber-pots on them is an obvious de-ja vu reaction to MS/DOS. Lucky
| he didn't know about windows...  :-))

But he threw the contents of the chamber pots out the windows, didn't
he?

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: dagbrown@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Dave Brown)
Subject: Re: Non Unix-OS's
Keywords: CP/M, MP/M, Onyx, OS-9, Z-80, 6809
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:44:47 GMT

In article <41062@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> s.telford@ed.ac.uk (Scott Telford) writes:
>In article <1992Aug7.234604.2810@regina.cs.uregina.ca>,
>bayko@hercules.cs.uregina.ca (J. Bayko) writes:
>
>
>>     Anyone know what became of CP/M and Onyx?
>> 
>
>CP/M (3.0) is alive and well and still being shipped with Amstrad
>PCW-series "wordprocessors" (Z80A + 256/512k RAM + 3.5" floppy +
>crappy DM/daisy printer + CP/M + crappy wp software).
>
Ah, c'mon!  They're not _that_ bad...except for the floppies.  They're
_not_ 3.5"...they're 3" .  A weird floppy which has an _internal_
shutter...the safest floppies known to mankind, but very expensive...
The computers weren't that bad though...you could play _Batman_ on them...


-- 
Dave Brown
dagbrown@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca
Phone: (519) 725-6896
"I believe the word you're looking for is, 'AAAARRGH!!!!'" - The Penguin
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: cooper@cos.com (Gary Cooper)
Subject: Re: GUI or Gooey?
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: usa  
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:17:47 GMT

In <1992Aug6.215949.22552@tcsi.com> bobmcc@tcs.com (Bob McCormick) writes:

>1. When did this "gooey" expression start?

Probably around the time Microsoft started putting out Windows - I 
think "gooey" is an apt description of it's performance. :>
-- 
Gary Cooper (not the dead one)    personal responses - cooper@cos.com
* * * * * * *  Standard Disclaimers Apply, Of Course * * * * * * * * *
      "The Vice-Presidency is not worth a pitcher of warm spit."
			- Vice-President John Nance Garner -
From: d89cb@efd.lth.se (Christian Brunschen)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: SAGE
Date: 16 Aug 92 09:34:16 GMT
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden

In article <16klveINNgj4@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes) writes:
>
>I have a favorite metaphor for SAGE and a lot of other systems: the model
>railroad.
>
>A model railroad is a project that can consume any amount of money and
>creative effort to build, and is a lot of fun to operate and watch in
>operation, but performs no real-world useful function.

How suitable .... let me quote from jargon299.ascii:

:TMRC: /tmerk'/ n. The Tech Model Railroad Club at MIT, one of
   the wellsprings of hacker culture.  The 1959 `Dictionary of
   the TMRC Language' compiled by Peter Samson included several terms
   which became basics of the hackish vocabulary (see esp. {foo}
   and {frob}).

   By 1962, TMRC's legendary layout was already a marvel of
   complexity.  The control system alone featured about 1200 relays.
   There were {scram switch}es located at numerous places around
   the room that could be pressed if something undesirable was about
   to occur, such as a train going full-bore at an obstruction.
   Another feature of the system was a digital clock on the dispatch
   board.  Normally it ran at some multiple of real time, but if
   someone hit a scram switch the clock stopped and the display was
   replaced with the word `FOO'.

   Steven Levy, in his book `Hackers' (see the Bibliography in
   {appendix C}), gives a stimulating account of those early
   years.  TMRC's Power and Signals group included most of the early
   PDP-1 hackers and the people who later bacame the core of the MIT
   AI Lab staff.  Thirty years later that connection is still very
   much alive, and this lexicon accordingly includes a number of
   entries from a recent revision of the TMRC Dictionary.

-- end quote --

Seems that Model Railroads have always had a big part ... :)

>-- 
>haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
>haynes@cats.bitnet
>
>"Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an Art."
>        Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
>

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
// Christian Brunschen // Husmansv. 26 // S - 227 38 Lund // Sweden //
// voice# +46 (0)46 139345  // internet d89cb@efd.lth.se //        //
// irc snooker Senster gcb // ------------------------------------++
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Computers killing peo
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:47:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

TO> .With a SERIAL port, maybe. But very unlikely. Few printers have
  > .the transmit data line hooked up.

You run printers with serial interfaces that don't support XON/XOFF
interface?  Strange...  Which printers don't support this??

        D/


 * OLX 2.2 * Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
                                                                                           
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi)
Subject: Re: Horizontal Tabs
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 15:25:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug3.071020.10214@news.columbia.edu>, lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

8 as in go to 0 mod 10. 
you cared lots about ever single instruction back then.

~Paul

Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12811 comp.unix.misc:3303
From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Date: 20 Aug 92 09:50:02 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Aug19.160844.13884@auto-trol.com>, davgot@auto-trol.com (David Gottner) writes:
> I have complete control of the hardware with some HLL's (like C).  If I want
> a left shift I use '<<'.  If I want a signed multiply I use '*' on two signed
> numbers.  What more control could I want?

How about a rotate?

Sorry, couldn't resist. :-) Rotate seems to be one of those things that I'm
always needing and keep having to figure out ways around not having one.

Roger Ivie
ivie@cc.usu.edu
From: thorinn@diku.dk (Lars Henrik Mathiesen)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: the four-color theorem
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:22:38 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

OK, take three on the proof method for the four colour theorem:

The basic induction is on the number of countries in the map: We want
to prove that any map with a certain number of countries can be four-
coloured, given that all maps with fewer countries can be so coloured.

If the map contains a country with only three neighbours, we can
ignore that country and four-colour the rest (which is possible by
induction assumption). It will then be obvious how to colour the
left-out country.

Now, there are many maps that do not have a three-neighbour country,
but it can be shown that every map must have at least one country with
five or fewer neighbours. While not trivial, it's not really hard to
prove that a map with a 4-neighbour country can be ``reduced'' like
the 3-neighbour one; if the same could be shown for 5-neighbour
countries, the proof of the theorem would be complete. And so, for
many years much vain effort was spent in this direction.

Now, let us say that the three cases above (single countries with 3, 4
or 5 neighbours) ``cover'' the set of possible maps. We cannot prove
what we want in the third case, but perhaps we could find some other
collection of cases, covering all maps, so that we could prove
reducibility for all of them.

That is what the computer-aided proof does: a large list of
``configurations'' (each having on the order of 10 connected
countries) is checked for reducibility, and then the resulting
collection of reducible configurations (my memory suggests either 200
or 800) is checked to see if it covers all possible maps. (All the
terminology here is mine, but not the maths, I hope.)

I think computer programs were involved both in the reducibility
proofs and in the coverage proof, but it was probably humans who came
up with the lists of configurations to be checked. (Possibly this was
where the researchers' children were employed.) Note that no attempt
was made to find a minimal proof, in any sense; it is still possible
that there exists a small proof, using something like five or eight
configurations, that could be carried through using all the tricks
inventable by a hard-working mathematician.

Lars Mathiesen (U of Copenhagen CS Dep) <thorinn@diku.dk> (Humour NOT marked)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc