From: emru@CAM.ORG (Emru Townsend)
Subject: Re: Anime, and He May Not
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:56:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.215758.22693@sura.net> wbarnes@sura.net (Bill Barnes) writes:
>>it'll be appearing in FPS #3, which should be out in about four weeks.
>
>Pardon my ignorance, but what is FPS?  A fanzine, real magazine, or what?

Errrr, a combination of the two :)  It was built from the ashes of my old
fanzine, QUARK, and I'm slowly bringing it up to "real magazine" status.
Right now you can get it from Whole Toon Catalog or myself, but that's
about it.  Wider distribution is one of the things I'm working on, but
since I don't really have a staff to speak of, it's going kinda slow.

>[most of two paragraphs deleted]
>>. . .  So, with his blessing, I have a few points to
>>make--maybe a few bones to pick--about the world of Japanese
>>animation. Let's run a few up the flagpole and see who jumps into
>>the head of a twenty-storey robot (that they don't know how to
>>drive) and righteously tries to attack them.
>
>Marc has not done much to affirm my faith in his objectivity.  Despite his
>earlier promise to be "even-handed," he spends two paragraphs talking about
>"sneering" at others and "annoying people."  IMHO, anyone with that kind
>of attitude cannot possibly be objective and anyone who feels they can
>is either naive, lying to themselves, or just plain hypocritical.

This is Marc's particular sense of humor, but I'll let him defend that one
himself...

>Again, what Marc says is true of any media.  Why he singles out anime
>in this regard seems odd.  He freely admits that mediocrity is inherent
>in every form of expression, yet feels it is somehow easier to spot in
>anime than other forms.  I don't find it very difficult to see mediocrity
>in print, music, TV, movies, State of the Union addresses, etc.  Is
>Marc somehow blinded to the mediocrity of these forms, or is his insight
>in anime merely especially keen?

Whoops - accidentally deleted the original reference.  In any case, I
think I can safely say Marc singled out anime because that's what I asked
him to write about.  That what he says is also true about other media
doesn't excuse anime.

>>It is a powerful way to show people things they might never see
>>otherwise. Americans like Disney, Bluth, Bakshi, Avery and Jones
>>have set lofty standards for their countrymen that are
>>unfortunately rarely equalled.
>
>I personally feel that Bluth, Bakshi, and to some extent Disney are highly
>overrated.  In my opinion these three men suffer much the same problems
>Marc bemoans anime for having - all flash and substance - yet earn his
>approval.  Marc spoke of cheap stereotypes and recycled story ideas,
>something all three of these animators were guilty of, yet he turns a
>blind eye so he may focus on anime's flaws.  Perhaps the fact the dialog
>is in English or that these men can often afford flashier animation than
>anime can has biased his view.  Perhaps.

I kinda disagree on some points here.  The people/studios he mentions are
all exceptional at character animation.  They're mostly very good
storytellers.  The recycled storylines in Warner shorts (Elmer goes after
Bugs, Daffy tries to get Elmer to shoot Bugs, etc.) are reworked each time
with enough of a spin that they don't really get tired.  But there's way too
much anime (IMHO) which can be easily pigeonholed by using the same old
storyline, with different faces and voices.

Marc's also seen most of his anime dubbed or subbed, or with a great deal
of information thrown at him before, during and after viewing.

>>A uniform character
>>design anthropomorphizes people into a bizarre pseudo-humanity in
>>which individuality is replaced with big eyes, perky noses, long
>>legs, small waists, big breasts, strong jaws and heart-shaped
>>faces, depending on whether the character is man-boy or
>>woman-girl. As a design trick, it was once an inspired
>>stylization, but it is getting tired, very tired. As it shows no
>>sign of becoming extinct, it looks like we will just have to
>>accept it, and move on.
>
>How is anime's stylized characters any better or worse than the stylized
>artwork of Disney, Bluth, Avery, Jones, etc.?  Ignoring, of course, the
>fact that not all anime proceeds from this stylization - there are subtle
>nuances among the ones that are virtual clones, not counting those with
>a very distinctive style, such as Miyazaki, Matsumoto, or other "alternative"
>anime-tors.

Not gonna touch this one, because I agree with both of you.

>>Another anime staple is the incredibly complicated machine. One
>>could go on for pages about why the Japanese excel at drawing,
>>almost drafting machinery, but suffice it to say here that no
>>culture does it better. Regardless of whether the devices are of
>>this world or of another, Japanese animators don't even flinch at
>>putting them through the most amazing stunts, perspectives and
>>explosions. The results are often astounding. And yet, as we have
>>seen, they refuse to individualize the acting of their
>>characters, and character animation by definition is nothing less
>>than acting. The Japanese are no less human than North Americans,
>>in some cases, probably more so; why won't they breathe life into
>>the majority of their people?
>
>Marc complains about the character animation in anime, and here I will
>agree that it does posess all the nuances and subtleties that the
>better American animation does, namely Disney.  However, there are
>subtles nuances present in anime, nice touches that are largely forgotten
>in American animation.  And this ignores the vast amount of mediocre to
>substandard animation in America.  Marc is unfairly comparing the best
>the US has to the mediocre and worst of anime.

BEBE'S KIDS - definitely not Disney - had better character animation than
most anime, simply in that each character's attitude was expressed in the
way they moved.  And, much as I hate to say it, most of even my favorite
anime rely solely on facial expressions or poses to convey moods, not
actual motion.

>Marc further damages his credibility with lines like:
>>Linna would like to be a nightclub singer, but she can't sing.
>
>Did he watch the same series the rest of us did?  NOWHERE in BGC did
>Linna EVER express an interest in becoming a singer.  ONCE she suggested
>becoming Priss' manager, and that was the closest she ever came to the
>music industry.  Linna is an aerobics instructor with aspirations to
>hit the the Japanese equivalent of Broadway, if the Asu e Touchdown
>video is any education.  She is not a lounge singer wannabe.
>
>If you're going to attack something under the guise of intelligent
>commentary, the least you can do is know the basics of what you're
>talking about.  That or admit your making dogmatic statements with
>little factual support.

Whoops.  That should be "dancer", no?  Some kind of performer.  I think
I might be to blame for that one...

>>Still, she remains the cheerful one. When danger strikes, they
>>all put on big robot battle suits and fight like well-trained,
>>bloodthirsty mercenaries. This, in the world of anime, is a
>>perfectly reasonable concept.
>
>It's pure fantasy.  So is Dumbo, Pinnochio, Fantasia, Beauty and the
>Beast, The Little Mermaid, and every other Disney movie in existence
>(which will use as the epitome of American animation).  They're just
>fantasies of a lighter, happier kind.  The fact BGC has a science
>fiction setting and exudes of air of attempting to be realistic does
>not make it any more or less fanciful than the average Disney movie -
>it just makes it different.  As to whether or not the fantasy "works" -
>whether you can suspend your notions of reality and be entertained -
>is a different matter altogether and, despite the efforts of many self-
>proclaimed experts to claim otherwise, entirely subjective.

True.  But when you're grounding your work more or less in reality, then
you can't get away with as much.  If BGC is aiming to be more realistic,
then it has more work to do if it wants to maintain suspension of
disbelief.

>>Or how about the screenplay fiasco called COOL WORLD?
>
>So much for Marc's expression of admiration for Bakshi...did Ralph lose
>his magic touch already?

I doubt it.  Liking Bakshi doesn't mean liking everything he does.  I don't
like everything Chuck Jones and Michael Maltese did.

>I had hoped Marc would be more open-minded that that.  I was disappointed.
>But hope springs eternal, and until someone actually does do an objective
>analysis, I will continue to gorge my mind on images of battlin' babes,
>evil multi-national corporations, and maybe the occasional anime that
>is worth of the appellation "art."

If I could find a more objective person, I'd ask them to write the article.
After years of trying, Marc's the best I've got :)

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Emru Townsend             | Lucy: Do you think anybody ever really changes?
Fido: 1:167/133           | Linus: I've changed a lot in the last year.
emru@cam.org  BIX: switch | Lucy: I meant for the better.
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