HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Recall Willie Brown
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:54:45 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <l8jdacINNk6t@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, bguest9@bsg9.Corp.Sun.COM (Kristian Skrinak) writes:
> Let get it together here. Recall? Talk about idoitic. How many of you 
> are actually registered to vote?

Probably nearly all of us on this net.

> Willie Brown's ass is up for relection this September. I've only got one
> stone to cast but you can bet I'm pulling the other lever.

Thank you!

> Dem - Your money,
> Rep - or your rights!

Sorry, but you have that wrong.

Dem -- Your money and most of your rights,
Rep -- Almost as much of your money, and most of the rights not taken
       away by Dems.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
I can make myself popular on USENET again -- all I have to say is that I'm not 
disturbed by the support for North American Man-Boy Love Association in the 
homosexual community.  Being popular at a child's expense isn't worth it.
From: darlene@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Darlene Wiedman)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Recall Willie Brown
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:12:03 GMT

In article <l8kvsaINNfvb@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, deguc@holein1.Corp.Sun.COM (Bob Deguc) writes:
> In article l8jdacINNk6t@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM, bguest9@bsg9.Corp.Sun.COM (Kristian Skrinak) writes:

> > Willie Brown's ass is up for relection this September. I've only got one
> > stone to cast but you can bet I'm pulling the other lever.

> Well, you can only vote for/against him if you are in his district.  On
> the otherhand, Wilson is a statewide official that was elected by all the
> voters of California.

This is correct.  I would like to see Willie ousted, but I don't live in his
district.  It is up to those of you who do to vote him out of office.
However, I can do something about Pete, (or at least get his attention).

> > A recall is admitting that you've let the problem go so far that it is
> > out of control. Are you ready to admit that?

Obviously I think things have gone too far or I wouldn't be thinking of
taking such drastic action.

I started calling my representatives and the govenors office when the State     started losing it's credit rating.  I was told by someone in the govenor's      office that the budget probably wouldn't be passed until sometime in August!!   Sounds like political manuvering to me.

Meanwhile the state is going to Hell in a handbasket.  If the man can't show
some leadership in resolving this crisis, then he should move over and let
someone in who can.... be it Democrat or Republican... makes no difference to
me as long as they can get things done.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Darlene Wiedman                      "If you're not part of the solution,+
+ darlene@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com           you're part of the problem."    +   
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: smorrow@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Steve Morrow)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:27:40 GMT
Subject: Re: The Claytoon on the Couch (was Re: Stereotyping)
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: ca.politics

Jesus, Cramer, LIGHTEN UP!!  Pal, you either need a vacation or a good
lay to get you back on track.  I can only hope that watching the Republican
convention this week will help drain some of your bigoted festering vileness
from the garbage bag of hatred you drag around.  Before you point your
moral finger at soc.motss, look at rec.humor, decidely heterosexual and full
of rather sick humor (man-sheep, father-daughter, etc), but then, maybe you
like that.  Nothing worse than a self-appointed holier-than-thou pinhead.

Steve Morrow
From: mgm@clipper.ingr.com (Mike Marfell)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:49:23 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA

In article <55671@olivea.atc.olivetti.com>, ses@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Darlene Wiedman) writes:
> There seems to be a lack of leadership in Sacramento (witness the budget
> fiasco), so I am considering starting a petition drive to recall Gov.
> Pete Wilson.  I have called the Secretary of State and I will be receiving
> all the info I need in a few days.
> 
> What are your views on this matter.  Is it worth my time to try to get this
> initiative under way?

> + Darlene Wiedman              

       Darlene,

           I say DO IT! Neither Gov. Wilson nor our illustrious state
representatives can make a decision about our states well being. So 
now it's time for someone or some people to make a decision about them.
These elected officials are legally obligated to work out a budget
for our state, NOT to put us in debt.  

        
                 I SAY RUN ALL THEIR BUTTS OUT OF TOWN.



                                                        -mike :)























    
  
-- 

Mike Marfell                                      mgm@clipper.ingr.com
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: Jeff Dauber's posting on NAMBLA
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:21:25 GMT

In article <11778@optilink.UUCP> manley@optilink.UUCP (Dave Manley) writes:

>Question: do you think it is okay for an adult to sexually
>pursue an adolescent?

It depends on the power dynamic of the situation.  If the adult is in a
position of power, any power at all, over the youth, then this is coersion.
However, if the adult is not in a position to exert power over the young
adult, and the young adult consents, then I do not have a problem with it.

However, the key word is consent.  It has to be 100% consensual, which means
no head trips from the adult to the youth.



FWA

Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis)
Subject: Re: Recall Willie Brown
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 06:19:16 GMT

In article <11754@optilink.UUCP>,
cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <l8jdacINNk6t@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, bguest9@bsg9.Corp.Sun.COM (Kristian Skrinak) writes:
>> Let get it together here. Recall? Talk about idoitic. How many of you
>> are actually registered to vote?
>
>Probably nearly all of us on this net.
>
>> Willie Brown's ass is up for relection this September. I've only got one
>> stone to cast but you can bet I'm pulling the other lever.
>
>Thank you!
>
>> Dem - Your money,
>> Rep - or your rights!
>
>Sorry, but you have that wrong.
>
>Dem -- Your money and most of your rights,
>Rep -- Almost as much of your money, and most of the rights not taken
>       away by Dems.

Seems like an appropriate time to remind you folks who are in the
the district of the original Slick Willie that you will have more
than two levers to pull.  I recommend you give serious consideration
to Mark Valverde, an openly gay Libertarian (running ia a rather
openly gay district  -- and no Clayton, he doesn't like NAMBLA any
more than you do so just keep quiet for once please when someone
mentions the G word).

/June
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: Stereotyping
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:51:49 GMT

In article <11785@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>Straight society makes its disapproval of S&M, TVs, and heterosexual
>child molesters very clear.  Gay society can't seem to do that,
>for some reason.


Thank you clayton, for illustrating my point so well.

Clayton lumps S&M, Transvesticism and child molestation into one category.
Remember my "first they came for NAMBLA" posting?

This is why we defend NAMBLA's right to exist.

Now, clayton...  I engage in consensual S&M.  What is wrong with this?




FWA
Xref: sparky ca.politics:6963 ba.politics:4686
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Homosexual marriages
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:44:48 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Aug20.172311.20815@rossinc.com> steveth@rossinc.com (Steve Thomas) writes:

>But "marriage" is also a very traditional, very Christian kind of
>institution.  People should approach it as such.  Let the Christians have
>their contract (but separate church and state, dammit!).  This talk about
>making the institution of Marriage more "open" seems rather
>counterproductive to me--I think people would be better off creating a
>secular replacement for the marriage contract and work to get that
>recognized throughout our legal system.  People demanding that the current
>institution of marriage be changed seems to me a lot like atheists
>demanding they be allowed to be catholic priests.

Ideally, I agree with you.  However, when I look at the situation and
realistically try and assess how to change it, I think that my chances of
getting the entire federal government to change its definition of what
"marriage" is are rather slim.  The government is okay at changing its
definitions.  However, I don't think that it can get rid of one definition,
ie marriage as it stands today, and implement a new definition "marriage
replacement institution", for example.

I would be equally happy with either of the following solutions:

1.  Remove all secular implications of marriage.  You can still set
up contracts between people, but the government does not consider single
people and differently from married people.

2.  Redefine the groups which can become married to include any group of
consenting adults, regardless of number or gender of the adults involved.


Realistically, I think goal 2 will be acheived more readily than goal 1.
This is not saying that it will be an easy task, just easier.


Jeff
-FWA
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: athos@apple.com (Rick Eames)
Subject: Re: Is the ABA liberal-biased:Abortion/Hill
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:34:39 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc

In article <63892@cup.portal.com>, Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com wrote:
> 
> The ABA gives Anita Hill an award for telling a story that most Americans
> don't believe, and for taking a stand that most Americans think she is lying
> about. Hillary Clinton gives a big speech. They take a position on abortion
> than can be nothing but political, and is so extremem that they believe that
> NO restrictions on abortion should be allowed.

Why an organization like this is picking causes is beyond me, but I'll give
it a shot:

Giving Anita Hill an award for bringing her charges up would be like giving
Gennifer Flowers an award for doing the same (and remember, Flowers
actually has some evidence, as opposed to Anita Hill).  That was a strange
award.

--
Rick Eames
athos@apple.com
My opinions are my own, thank you very much!
From: bruce@godzilla.swdc.stratus.com (Bruce Overby)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re:  Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Summary: Perhaps that's too simplistic
Keywords: Governor, Legislature
Date: 13 Aug 92 00:30:38 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

In article <55671@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> ses@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Darlene Wiedman) writes:
>There seems to be a lack of leadership in Sacramento (witness the budget
>fiasco), so I am considering starting a petition drive to recall Gov.
>Pete Wilson.  I have called the Secretary of State and I will be receiving
>all the info I need in a few days.
>
>What are your views on this matter.  Is it worth my time to try to get this
>initiative under way?
>

As much as I detest Pete Wilson (I was a student at SDSU when he
was mayor there and have nothing but bad memories of the guy), I
think recalling him might be kind of an overly simplistic approach
to the state's current crisis. I would ask you how much you have
communicated with your representatives in the assembly and senate
about your opinions on the current crisis. Are you convinced they
and other legislators are somehow absolved in this matter? If so,
by all means, go after Wilson. He's as good a target as anyone as
far as I know.

-------------------------------------------------
Bruce Overby
Stratus Computer, Inc.
San Jose, CA


"Get at dem beans!"  -- Hoss Cartwright

My opinions may not reflect those of my employer.
--------------------------------------------------
From: foy@aero.org (Richard Foy)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:27:48 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA

In article <1992Aug18.171522.3923@island.COM> guido@island.COM (Guido Marx) writes:
>In article <SLAGLE.92Aug13005815@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com> slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com writes:
>>In article <55671@olivea.atc.olivetti.com>, ses@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Darlene Wiedman) writes:
>>
>>> What are your views on this matter.  Is it worth my time to try to get this
>>> initiative under way?
>>
>>Why don't you recall Willie Brown instead?
>
>Rather than recall any particular politician, I would rather see
>an initiative which would change the current system so that we
>would be less likely to ever have this happen again.  
>
>Allow me to suggest just a couple measures which would go a long 
>way toward ensuring timely passage of a budget in future years.
>
>	1)  Any fiscal year in which a budget is not in place by
>	    the Constitutionally mandated July 1, the Legislature
>	    and the Governor will LOSE 2% of their yearly salary
>	    for each day that passes without a budget.  
>
>	2)  There shall be NO "per diem" or any other "expense" 
>	    payments to members of the Legislature or the 
>	    Governor while there is no budget.  These payments, like
>	    the salary, will be forfeit (ie: won't be paid back
>	    once the budget is in place). 
>
>There you go, end of problem - in the immortal words of George Zimmer
>"I Guarantee it !!!"
>
>Guido

What makes you so sure? Perhaps key players could be making enough
money under the table that they wouldn't be willing to sacrifice they
under the table source to retain their above the table pay and
expenses.

Richard Foy           Standard Disclaimer
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel)
Subject: Re: Prop. 13 and California's fiscal crisis
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 01:24:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.165010.11283@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>Property taxes are taxes on your wealth.  Income taxes are taxes on
>your income.  What you are suggesting with David Bailey is a wealth
>tax based on his skills and knowlege.  The only major problem I see
>with it is that it is impossible or nearly so to calculate the proper
>tax rate for each person.

What problem?  Just compare David Bailey with other people in his area that
have a similar skills set, work history and training and then set that tax
accordingly.  This was the property tax situation before Prop. 13, so might
as well be the work-value tax situation now.

The only problem *I* see is what do you put a lien on for non-payment of
the work-value tax?

(^: he says, with tongue firmly in cheek B^)

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

Concept, n.:
    Any "idea" for which an outside consultant billed you more than $25,000.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: guido@island.COM (Guido Marx)
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.  San Rafael, Ca.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:07:31 GMT

In article <1333300013@igc.apc.org> NORML California <canorml@igc.apc.org> writes:
>
>   It takes 840,000 valid signatures to remove Wilson.  There are at least
>800,000 state employees who are hopping mad enough to sign it.  Wilson is  
>a  class-A jerk.
>   For our news release on this, contact California NORML: 415-563-5858.

Speaking of Wilson acting like a class-A jerk, I just heard this this morning.
This morning governor Wilson visited the fire which is burning in 
Calaveras County - KGO radio reporter Greg Jarett relayed a question to Wilson
which Jarett said was asked of him by a firefighter.  The question
was "what are you doing here when there still is no budget ?".  
Wilson refused to answer the question, and Jarett was told by a
Wilson aide that they were going to "have his job".

I should also point out that that firefighter had only had 12 hours
sleep in the past 5 days, and was being paid with state IOU's. 

Guido
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (William December Starr)
Subject: ABA membership is voluntary, right?
Organization: Northeastern Law, Class of '93
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 18:13:04 GMT


In article <63892@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com said:

> How can the ABA call themselves non-partisan?  How are the rest of
> us supposed to feel when we know any lawyer we hire is sworn to
> uphold the principles of political correctness?

Given that I'm in my last year of law school, I'm a bit embarrassed to
have to admit that I don't know this for sure, but I _believe_ that
membership in the American Bar Association is voluntary, not
mandatory, for lawyers in the United States.  Misc.legal added to this
thread in the hopes of eliciting a definitive answer from somebody...

-- William December Starr <wdstarr@athena.mit.edu>
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Is the ABA liberal-biased:Abortion/Hill
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:40:11 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1156@pb2esac.UUCP> jlbrand@pb2esac.UUCP (Jack Brand) writes:

>Sounds to me like the ABA, according to you, took the *unpopular* position,
>i.e., the politically *incorrect* position.  You can't have it both ways.
>(Oops, I forgot, the dreaded "politically correct" label merely means
>"liberal"...)

Uh, Jack, you don't seem to understand the term.  Politically correct
refers to those liberal ideas that are semi-mandatory on certain
campuses.  In general, if a professor saying something in class on a
campus like Wellesley would get the left wing to scream then what he/she
is saying is politically incorrect.  The converse is politically
correct.

For example, I'd bet fifty that if a Wellesley prof in a class
discussion said "Well, I think Anita Hill was lying through her
teeth." then there would be a fuss.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: chased@rbbb.Eng.Sun.COM (David Chase)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Distracted Economic Theory
Date: 21 Aug 92 06:16:03 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbbb

In article <1992Aug20.190624.24638@clipper.ingr.com> ald@clipper.ingr.com (Al Date) writes:
>Why dont you do some reading of those you criticize 
>and make up your own mind, instead of 
>smirking away in a position of self-admitted ignorance?  (8-)

I do.  I did.  I was curious to see what, if anything, other people
had read before making up their minds, and hoping perhaps to start an
intelligent discussion.  Lately, it's not been very clear that people
posting to this newsgroup have minds, though they do have knees and
strings.  I suppose I could go look at sci.econ, but I think I'd do a
better job talking to real economists, not pretend economists.

Oh yeah, sorry for the poor references.  It's not a refereed paper,
after all.  The articles do exist.  You apparently misinterpreted the
sense of "global" and "local" in the context of global and local
minima.  Think function minimization, not geography.  Free trade has
nothing to do with it.

David Chase
Sun
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Date: 13 Aug 92 07:58:15 GMT
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
Followup-To: ca.politics
Distribution: ca
Organization: You wouldn't ask this if you'd seen my desk.
In-reply-to: ses@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com's message of 12 Aug 92 17:30:23 GMT

In article <55671@olivea.atc.olivetti.com>, ses@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Darlene Wiedman) writes:

> What are your views on this matter.  Is it worth my time to try to get this
> initiative under way?

Why don't you recall Willie Brown instead?
--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
Xref: sparky ca.politics:6935 ba.politics:4660
From: jlbrand@pb2esac.UUCP (Jack Brand)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: A Retraction
Date: 19 Aug 92 05:25:03 GMT
Reply-To: jlbrand@pb2esac.UUCP (Jack Brand)
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Pacific*Bell ESAC, Oakland, Ca.

In article <1992Aug18.185119.11863@amhux2.amherst.edu+ twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
+In article <11726@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
+
+>Now, can we discuss when the homosexual community is going to
+>shun child molesters?
+
+As soon as we can figure out why the heterosexual community doesn't
+shun you, I don't see why not.

We do, we do! :-)

jb
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: Re: Homosexual marriages
Organization: Memes-R-Us
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:34:13 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

foy@aero.org (Richard Foy) writes:

>How did the state ever get involved in marriages? What possible 
>justification is there for the government laws on the subject?

Indeed.

-- richard

-- 
-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration

                   Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Subject: Re: Prop. 13 and California's fiscal crisis
Reply-To: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies
Distribution: ca
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 20:31:05 GMT

In talking about legislators and Prop 13 the following (very true)
statement was made:

 > You can't afford a Porsche on a McDonald's salary ...

Unless you happen to be Willie Brown, that is -- he seems to be able
to afford multiple cars of the Ferarri/Lambourghini class on a State
Assemblyman's salary.  Now THERE'S budgetary wizardry for you! :-)

    Wayne Hathaway               domain: wayne@Ultra.COM
    Ultra Network Technologies     uucp: ...!ames!ultra!wayne
    101 Daggett Drive             phone: 408-922-0100 x132
    San Jose, CA 95134              FAX: 408-433-9287