HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: miked@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Mike Danielsen)
Subject: Re: More BS from -DB-
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:58:50 GMT

In article <C0CGtC.z9@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>In article <58226@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
>>In article <C0BJCq.MK9@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>>The Mac OS is not very pretty under the surface, but is VERY elegant on the
>>>surface.  The Mac OS on the surface has lots and lots of niceties, big and
>>>small. AmigaOS is more elegant under the surface, but is almost completely
>>>devoid of niceties on the surface.
>>
>
>> On the Amiga, you
>>simply run whatever programs you want, as many copies as you want, unless
>>the programs were specifically written to prevent this.
>
>   This has problems as well as benefits.  Yes, its very nice for a power user
>to be able to launch more than one copy of PageStream, for instance.  But this
>has many problems for the novice user.  On the Macintosh, if you have 
>WordPerfect running an double-click a WordPerfect document from the Finder, 
>the existing WP task is told to load the document.  On the Amiga, another
>WordPerfect or PageStream task is launched.  This can confuse novice users 
>quite a lot.  For instance, one time my mom was using the computer and ran
>out of memory.  I looked things over, and noticed there with NINE PageStream
>tasks running at the same time.  This is a testimony to the power of the
>Amiga that the Amiga could run nine PageStream tasks, but it was also VERY
>confusing to my mom.  She finds the Macintosh environment much easier to
>work with.
>

You can not run more than one copy of an application on the mac, so if
the application doesn't support multiple projects (some don't) and
you want to have two projects open at once, your'e out of luck.
Most programs can open multiple projects but not if they are busy 
working on something. You want a good example, in MPW I can't open a file to
edit while it is compiling some other files. It can still open a stupid
requester saying so though.

Mike Danielsen

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:34:03 GMT

In article <1iilmvINNm11@gap.caltech.edu> andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew) writes:
>Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines) writes:
>
>>Yup, they can indeed take all sorts of monitors, video cards, etc.  If
>>you're REALLY into graphics power on the Amiga, go out and by a VIVID 24
>>bit card with 4 co-processers.  The manufacture says it is faster than a
>>$200,000 Silicon Graphics Workstation. Wheeeeeeeeeee!
>
>	Of course, DMI are lying through their teeth when they
>said this.  A Vivid can't even touch a 4 year-old $20K
>IRIS much less a $200K IRIS.


	Of course they're lying.  Amiga users will believe anything.
	(In that respect, they're a lot like MSWindows users)

	I'd like to see *any* Amiga card that can compete with an IRIS
	(as you said, years and years old), let alone an indigo+elan
	or a Crimson (SGI's current $105,000 workstation).)

	But I suspect I wont.  Ever.


	

-- 
      Blaming "society" for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.
 ---  boycott == coercion == censorship == closed mindedness == cowardice  ---
	      "Psalms 23:1  The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want."  
		Shepherds are for sheep.   -----      Pain teaches.
From: Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Distribution: world
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:31:41 EDT
Organization: Amiga Colony BBS

In a message dated Wed 30 Dec 92 22:44, Barrett@iastate.edu (marc N. Barret
wrote:

 BNB> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
 BNB> Path: tegra!ulowell!news.bbn.com!noc.near.net!uunet!paladin.american.
 BNB> edu!gatech!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!barrett
 BNB> From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
  BNB> fReferences: <C022Bw.AwM@news.iastate.edu>
<1992Dec30.210438.6678@klaa
 BNB> va.Helsinki.FI>
 BNB> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:41:33 GMT
 BNB> Lines: 35

 BNB> In article <1992Dec30.210438.6678@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
 BNB> lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
>Marc N. Barrett (barrett@iastate.edu) wrote:
>> In article <1992Dec29.214112.20498@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
>>    Yes, CignusEd Pro, SAS C, and Real 3-D are really good examples of 
>> productivity software.  All these go hand-in-hand with WordPerfect,
>> Adobe Illustrator, and MS Works.  NOT!
>
>Did I understand correctly, that you mean that a word processor for PC
>is a heck of a lot better program than a programming language for Amiga?

 BNB>    No.  I am countering your lumping of development tools like text
 BNB> editors
 BNB> and programming languages with productivity software.  You can't
 BNB> compare them
 BNB> at all.

>
>> > And of course we all know how
>> >one definately can not hook all those CD-ROMs available via SCSI.
>> 
>>    Uh huh, and CD-ROM drives are really good examples of software, too. 
NOT!
>
>And where did you say software?

 BNB>    I stated that there is no Amiga CD-ROM or (good) productivity
 BNB> software 
 BNB> available for the Amiga.  Perhaps my qualifying productivity
 BNB> software with the
 BNB> word "good" confused people.  I did this because the Amiga does have
 BNB> some
 BNB> productivity software available, but no really good productivity
 BNB> software
 BNB> available.  Perhaps if I had stated "there is no CD-ROM or
 BNB> productivity 
 BNB> software available for the Amiga", leaving out the word "good", it
 BNB> would 
 BNB> have made more sense.  But then people would have countered by
 BNB> naming apps
 BNB> like Final Copy which are productivity apps, but not very good
 BNB> productivity
 BNB> apps.

"Good" productivity apps?  I happen to -detest- Microsft Word and Microsoft
Excel -- are they examples of what you view as "good"?!!  

What about Superbase, which was developed on Amigas and then ported over to
Windows?  It's still being supported and improved for Amigas, under a new
names since the oringal supplier was gobbled out by an acquisitive company
interested only in platforms running under Microsoft operating and control
systems....  Superbase is so bad that somebody bought the company out to
get the program?!!  Yeah, sure......

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:26:12 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
:
: You'd be swapping out unused code, yes.  I contend that in
: cpu-intensive applications, the overhead created by swapping brings
: forth a NEED to avoid VM due to the INCREDIBLE, and that's a BIG one,
: performance hit you take.
:
: Have you ever used a NeXT with 4mb of ram?  OS/2 with the minimum?
:

Greg, so far this discussion has focused on what happens to a system when
you add VM.  Why are you now talking about removing RAM chips?  Does one
somehow imply the other?

:
: VM can bring systems to their knees.  And it does, regularly, for
: people that cross over the boundaries of physical memory.
:

Right, but if you try to cross over the boundaries of physical memory on
a machine *without* VM, that machine will not only get down on its knees,
it will get buried six feet underground.

:
: Generally, it's a combination of both.  I use interactive
: applications, and I _DEMAND_ real-time response.  After all, I'm not
: running some god-forsaken X-windows server.  Click.  wait.  wait.
: wait.  wait.  Oh, look, the window opened.  I want real-time response
: from a system, and real-time systems should deliver it.  VM impedes
: that, there's no way around it.
:

VM does not impede anything.  In fact, it can only show improved performance
over a non-VM system with the same amount of RAM.

:
: Remove everything except the
: minimum configuration of ram, and you'll see just what VM can do when
: you load it with activity.
:

There you go, talking about removing RAM chips again.

: Greg
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Amiga OS weaknesses
X-Sender: newtout 0.06 Jan  3 1993
Date: 10 Jan 93  09:45:00

> Organization: The Portal System (TM)
> From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
> Message-ID: <73215@cup.portal.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
>
> >Yes, I'd much rather have the system interface pop up a window saying "the
> >disk is unreadable, do I want to format it?" every time I pop in an IBM
> disk,
>
> Augggh! Where's the smiley? That's the single biggest thing I dislike
> about the Mac, forcing me to make a decision about the disk as soon as I
> pop it in.
>
> It would even be acceptable if one of the button choices was "hey, stupid
> computer, I KNOW its unreadable. Just wait until I tell you to do something
> with it".

The Mac is anoying in the same way that a salesman is - set one foot inside
some  stores and *PING* a sales(wo)man materializes out of nowhere and asks
"Can I help you with anything?"...  "No.  Just browseing.  Go away" ..  "We
have  some  wonderfull  stuff  on sale over here -" ..  "GO AWAY!  Leave me
alone!".

Thats how I feel when I use a Mac.

I  mean  really,  it's  not  THAT  much harder to click the icon and select
format.

> TomK@cup.portal.com
> Tom Krotchko

 -Dances With Coyotes-EMAIL: dances@qed.cts.com-At the begining of the movie-
 --AKA Dances V2.0/Coyote/Critter/Magnet/Major--they know they  have to find-
 -Former Net-Lurker - A-M-I-G-A! NOT AMEOBA%#$!-each other.... but they ride-
 -World's slower programer and cursed with 1.3!-off in  opposite  directions-


--- Maximus 2.01wb
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Bus Standards
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:49:45 GMT
Reply-To: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <C0DJzI.3LE@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>
>BTW: Even if it COULD (and is, to a
>certain extent) being done on the Amiga, CD-ROM is primarily an
>information delivery medium.  

This appears very narrowsighted. A CD-ROM can give you much more. E.g.
there is that NASA CDTV disk with a 45 minutes film about the space
flight history. Yes, a movie, with admittedly low resolution and low
frame rate, but comparable to old super-8 home movie. Very nice.
And I don't count this as dry information (like numbers, statistics,
or encyclopedia articles, of which some is *also* included on this disk). 
It's living data.

>If you are delivering information you
>usually want to deliver it where it will have the largest
>audience...not CDTV.

At least on a CDTV, you can do it, and it is already done. Voila.

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
Wer's nicht kann, soll's bleiben klopfen oder Steine lassen!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Date: 9 Jan 93 05:46:58 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras) writes:

>1) If overlays are so much better, then why are they only used on systems
>that need them.  I have never heard a 32-bit Unix ever using them.  Why?
>Probably because paging is better.

  Just because it isn't in widespread use doesn't mean that it's inferior,
remember Beta format VCR's?  It is visibly superior to VHS and yet it never
became a consumer success.
  
>2) Overlays seem like they might add too much work to the programmer.  If
>you think all programs, not matter how many megabytes they are, should
>use overlays, then perhaps you can start an argument for all programs to
>be written in assembly.  

  Too inefficient, profiling and downcoding the areas that call for it is
a better win then doing the whole project in assembly these days.

  BTW, have you worked with overlays?  They're quite easy to use, so long
as you plan your project properly in the early stages, it's difficult later
on if you have to rethink things to incorporate overlays.

>You think about it.  A demand paging system add NO extra programming
>time, an overlay system would add enormous amount of programming time
>for a large program.  Ask the implementors of nethack (a very portable
>game), who only set up an overlay system for the MS-DOS port because it
>needs it.  I'm sure they spent quite a bit of time puting the overlay
>system into place.

  Portability and overlays are two seperate issues, one requires an
understanding of the system being ported to while the other requires the
knowledge of how the program operates.  Both can be laborious in their own
right for different reasons, but certainly not impossible either.

  -jack-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:17:07 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
:
: Poor handling of low-memory situations was a problem that people were
: angry about in 1.3, and it's gone.
:

Excuse me?  It's gone?  That's funny, considering that a low-memory condition
has to be handled by the applications as well as the OS.  If an application
doesn't check the value returned from the allocation call, it can easily crash
the system.

:
: An opinion, at best.  Code size is NOTHING compared to the size of the
: data in situations of large memory usage, generally.
:

Exactly, which is why overlays won't help, but VM will.

: Greg
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:29:13 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1993Jan10.043322.7254@src4src.linet.org> scottw@src4src.linet.org (Scott Weintraub) writes:
>the ATI card can play back Video for Windows
>movies which reportedly can animate 1024 x 768 at 30fps.

Sorry, but AVI only supports the one small, postage stamp size
resolution. (200x170 or something like that...). You can zoom
the pivture to a bigger size but the resolution is still the same,
you just have a chunkier picture.

Well, on another note: My new Gateway 486/33 VESA died after two
days of normal use (normal at MS is on 24 hours a day).

While I had the chance to use the ATI graphics card I was very
impressed. It whoooped the livin' daylights out of the AGA machines
I've used when it comes to bitmap scrolling and graphics response.
I loaded a 256 color BMP into "WinGIF" and loaded a 256 color IFF
into MultiView on the A4000. The 486 was scrolling a 1024x768
GIF in a 640x480 window with perfect spped and smoothness. The Amiga
on the other hand displayed obvious redraws and poor scrolling
response. Word was a joy to use on the PC, while Final Copy II
was a chore as it sucked serious bilge while running in 256 colors.

I was not using CPUBlit on the A4000, maybe it would have helped?
It sure does on my A1200!

On the other hand I don't think the ATI card would do a game like
Shadow of the Beast III very well as it lacks cool things like BOBS and
sprites.

I still await the SKBCS (Super Kick Butt Chip Set).
-- 
"Apple's attitude toward its ROM code is a little like that of a rich kid
toward his inheritance. Not actually knowing how to create wealth himself,
he guards what he has with hysterical fervor." - John Perry Barlow
MAIL : IANK@MICROSOFT.COM			 Crime and Puzzlement
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:32:32 GMT

In article <C0rnE0.nB@rice.edu> abuhr@owlnet.rice.edu (Aaron M. Buhr) writes:
>In article <1993Jan12.060109.29758@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan11.200419.13617@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>>Andreas Stenmark (c92andst@odalix.ida.liu.se) wrote:

WARNING: THIS IS ANOTHER POST THAT WIMPS SHOULD AVOID!  DON'T READ THIS
IF YOUR PANTIES GET IN A WAD WHEN YOU SEE CURSING, FLAMING, AND OTHER
NON-PEACE LOVING POSTS...


>>>: Intel has never been in the front line of microprocessor development. And
>>>: that's a fact.
>>>
>>>No, it's not a fact; it's your opinion.  Please state it as such.
>>
>>The pot is calling the kettle black again...
>
>      Wasn't there a saying about "the log in one's own eye," or "people
>in glass houses?"  :)

Fuck the smiley dude, I don't find your posts amusing.

That kill-file is looking mighty tempting after reading all of your
bullshit tonight...

>Aaron Buhr
>abuhr@owlnet.rice.edu

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate who really hates Clones
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:59:35 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
:
: >The design purpose?!  It's obvious: to provide support for modern
: >applications on a vast array of peripheral hardware.  That's just one
:
: If that's the Windows philosophy, it explains exquisitely why Windows
: is so incredibly fubar.
:

But Greg, Windows is NOT fubar!  It works great, and has more support
and better applications than AmigaOS ever will.

:
: I will first say that THAT doesn't imply a GUI, VM, OR DIG.  There's a
: lovely quote I've seen in Mike's sig:  "Unix is the OS of the future,
: and always will be."
:

So?

:
: MS-DOS provided support for modern applications, it just made them do
: all the work themselves.
:

As of 1987, MS-DOS does *NOT* provide sufficient support for modern
applications.  The real-mode memory limitation is one reason.  No device
independence is another.

:
: There's more to a philosophy to it than that.  What I meant by
: philosophy is the "feel" one gets, the "understanding", the "basis"
: for the design of the OS.
:

I see three words in quotes in that last sentence.  Could it be that you
are having difficulty explaining exactly what you meant?

:
: That is taken from not only the FEATURES of
: the OS in question, but the user and programmers interfaces.
:

I agree, and believe that Windows has an excellent user and programmer
interface.  Do you disagree, and why?

:
: As a result of this, one can simply "drop in" new filesystems, and
: have them work.  Many people used FFS (the FastFileSystem) on floppies
: back in the 1.3 days.
:

Drop-in filesystems are indeed nice.  OS/2 has always had the facility.

:
: Because it has a bad EXTERNAL architecture.  The only thing I know
: about the layering of windows is what I know from the OS calls
: available.  Isn't that enough?
:

OK, this is what I've been waiting for you to say.  Exactly WHAT is wrong
with the Windows API?

You keep forgetting to post proof for your claims.

: Greg
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us (MARK BROWN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Reply-To: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us
X-Software: Legend (216-825-2747) UUCPShell v4.9/med20Dec92
X-Disclaimer: Opinions of users do not necessarily reflect those of managment
Date: 5 Jan 93 11:47:38 EST
Organization: The Legend BBS Public Access (216)825-2747

EGADS! They want' 1400 bucks for a 1200! 3200 for a A4000, time to go 
to another dealer!
    Mark

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 16:41:12 GMT

In article <C0n57o.GDs@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>In article <mbrown.100q@legend.akron.oh.us> mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us writes:
>>Actually with the Advent of OS/2, all the Things we do are new To you. 
>>C= has Never pushed the Amigas advantages into the Public mind, and 
>>that is were C= Screwed up. But if it wasn't for Commodore and the 
>>Amiga, Where do you truthfully think the IBM market would Be now? In 
>
>Give me a bfeak.  Let's not forget who wrote OS/2.  IBM.  THEY invented

And don't forget Microsoft.  Oh, that's certainly a plus.

>REXX.  THEY were multitasking before you were born.  So what in OS/2
>was "ripped off" of the Amiga?

How long have they had a popular widely available multitasking OS for the
Intel architecture?  As for being ripped off, ask the software engineers
who worked on OS/2 about the Amigas in their labs...

>>get a 486 with 2 megs of ram and HD controller for 350 bucks(the Amiga 
>>486 bridge board is around 1K) Compatibility problems?, not one hell 
>>of a whole lot from what I have Heard. The Brigde board is nice for 
>>some things though.
>>    <Mark
>
>Why, can you get a 68040 with 2MB of ram and a hd controller for
>$350.00?

No, but you can get an A1200 for around $600 that is comparable to 486sx
SVGA systems for twice the price.

Paul, why are you worried about the Amiga?  You obviously like the Clones,
so use them and be happy with them.  No one here cares what machine you use
and your arguments are simply ignored by most people.  Are you like many 
others who have sold their Amigas and bought Clones?  Aren't you happy with
it?  Why do you read and post to the Amiga groups?  Worried that you might
have made the wrong decision?  Or are you an MB wannabe?

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy