HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tob@world.std.com (Tom O Breton)
Subject: Re: What words to use and recognize
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:56:36 GMT

Magnus: Well, this thread seems to be almost at the incineration point (If
that message about "SOLVE PROBLEM" "WIN GAME" wasn't already a flame), so I
won't dwell on it at length. I have a few things to clarify, and then I'm
done.



> Yes, I suppose it might be a good idea to be able to say "USE CUP ON
> CANDLE" in this situation.

I don't know where you're getting that from. It doesn't sound like anything I
said.



I have to take objection to this theme: (quotations from various parts)

> IMHO an adventure that requires bad guessing is badly written. If the
> author wants the user to use the cup to snuff the candle, then it's the
> author's responsibility to make the game recognize all resonable semantics,
> like "PUT CUP OVER CANDLE" and things like that. Of course, this requires
> *extensive* play testing, but so do many other aspects of adventure games.

> An adventure writer simply needs to work so hard on the game's internal
> consistency that there aren't any logical holes in it. And the game must be
> play tested by people who have keen eyes for internal logic.

> Yes, but then the game is badly written.

It is of course up to the individual authors, but I think here in this group
OF such authors, it will be clear to most that an efficient return on your
programming effort is desirable.

Same work, more game... looks good to me!


> I haven't played that game myself, but here's what I'd do if I were to
> write such a puzzle:
  [ Rather a lot of effort, with the *foreknowledge* of what exact objections
    would be raised, deleted  ]

I think you missed my point.

  0:  Pretty much everyone agrees the game that included the example was
      quite well-written. Telling me that this well-done game should have
      been done *better* just makes my point for me.

        Asking the author to manually make clear what functionality is
        supported, discovering and covering even a good fraction of the
        possible solutions, just is not a realistic request.

  1:  You are retrofixing problems *that you know about*.

  2:  You are spending an extraordinary amount of effort on "making sure" of
      very tiny things. I'm suggesting an easier and more foolproof way.

        Tom

-- 
The Tom spreads its huge, scaly wings and soars into the wild sky...      
(tob@world.std.com)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: chil@fraser.sfu.ca (Keith Lim)
Subject: Re: Classic Infocom Mumblings
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 10:09:16 GMT

jrs@netcom.com (John Switzer) writes:

>Suspended gets my vote - it was my first Infocom game, and the only one 
>I got through without ANY help whatsoever. Took me three months, though.
>The robots were great, lots of red herrings,

Planetfall must have had more red herrings than all the other games put
together (well, probably not, but it sure seems like it.) It's one of my
favourites. Making you go past the body of Floyd again right at the end
of the game was brilliant. I swear I got a second stab of pain in my chest
when that happened.

> and when you got down, you 
>could replay it to reduce your damage score, or you could even customize
>your own game. 

Yes, the ability to customise your own game was a most original features;
one which I used all the time.

>Suspended also had some interesting "hidden" features such as having
>Auda follow the two humans around to listen in on their conversation. Great
>fun.

Auda, on first glance, seemed to be an almost entirely useless robot, but
she had a good deal of the "hidden features". Try asking Auda to read the
plaque, for instance. As for Poet, I sent him to every room and made him
look at everything just to read his descriptions. Poet was the only robot
who correctly identified the "large object" in <don't remember the room>

BTW, one of my favourite hidden features was the ability to kill the humans
(kept them from killing you.) Unfortunately, a second set of humans enter,
completely undetected, and you don't know about them until the open the
door of your cylinder.

-- 
Keith_Lim@sfu.ca   Simon Fraser University, Burnaby B.C., V5A 1S6, Canada
** Hon Cog Sci  Min Psyc  Senate  URC  FARSIDE  LEAD  CCCS  COCP  PSU  **
These opinions are mine. Mine!! ALL MINE!! No one else's! NO ONE ELSE'S!!

"The problems of our entire society are of a sexual nature."
                                          --Dr. Lawrence Jacoby, Twin Peaks
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: mkant+@cs.cmu.edu (Mark Kantrowitz)
Subject: Re: Text Generation Similar to Code Generation
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:09:18 GMT

In article <9754280@MVB.SAIC.COM> Whitten@Fwva.Saic.Com (David Whitten) writes:
>As I understand it, a compiler may generate inefficient or ugly code,
>but then a second program looks at what it generated and applies some
>pattern matching to it.  When the output matches specific patterns,
>then the machine code is replaced with shorter/faster/better code that
>does the same thing.  This program is called the peephole optimizer
>because it only looks at the code "through a peep hole" and doesn't
>really know much about the way it was created, just how it looks on
>output.

You're coalescing two different concepts. Peephole optimization is a
form of bounded lookahead. Many NLG systems that are concerned with
text realization can be considered LL(k) transducers. Lookahead is
different from rewriting or revising generated text. See for example,
Marie Meteer (Vaughan) and David McDonald, "A Model of Revision in
Natural Language Generation", ACL-86, pages 90-96, or Marie's more
recent paper in Cecile Paris's book. Another paper on this topic is
Richard Gabriel's "Deliberate Writing" in McDonald's 1988 book. In it
he describes the Yh system, which uses critics and repeated editing to
improve the generated text.

>I'm sure the work being done by the OZ researchers has considered, or is
>considering something similar to this.  

Yes, this is one of the ideas involved in the GLINDA natural language
generation system. See my INLGWS92 paper in the list Peter posted for
details. 

> The problem comes from recognizing 'writing style' enough to make a
> collection of patterns that generates writing with a consistent style.

True, that's one of the reasons why style is a difficult topic. Just
coming up with a good definition of "style" is hard.

>Of course, anything more than a simple syntactic level style is a big
>problem. 
>You see mate, I kin tawk funnee an' youz kin get a fee-eel fur mein 
>siinktaktik stiile but th's ain't no how thee same as me wrrrritin' style.
> 
>I think we would be pushing the current state of IF simply to have 
>artificial personalities in an adventure which just had differing 
>syntactic styles.

I disagree. Syntactic style and lexical style are equally difficult.
GLINDA uses the same mechanisms to handle both. 

It isn't clear to me what you mean by "syntactic style".  The example
you give is one of dialectal variation. Dialectal variation involves
many factors: particular syntactic organization (e.g., your example
starts with a vocative and combines several clauses with
conjunctions), lexical selection (e.g., use of "mate", "ain't", "no
how"), pronunciation (e.g., "tawk" instead of "talk", "writin'",
"thee") and so on. Limiting the generator to just the syntactic level
of organization would yield stilted sounding text.

--mark
Oz Interactive Fiction Project

Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: blasius@gmd.de (Volker Blasius)
Subject: Re: A modest proposal (was: What words to use and recognize)
Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, Germany
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:58:41 GMT

>Therefore, I propose that we add the following command to all new
>adventures: 

>SOLVE PUZZLE

>or, even,

>WIN GAME

I've seen this! (Was it Monkey Island? I think I tried all the keys and
Alt-W or something like this brought up a dialog box, "Do you really want to 
win the game?" When I replied, "Yes", it said, "OK, you won!" and dumped me 
out to DOS.)

Volker

---
Volker Blasius
Senior Doorstop, Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung
---
Origin: a maze of twisty little passages, all different (2:243/50.37)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Re: A modest proposal (was: What words to use and recognize)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:59:06 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Dec19.132717.4009@pollux.lu.se> magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson) writes:
>Therefore, I propose that we add the following command to all new
>adventures: 
>
>SOLVE PUZZLE

Actually, this isn't *quite* such a dumb idea as it seems at first glance.
What might really be worthwhile to add would be

    BYPASS PUZZLE

This would avoid the frustration of being hung up at a particular point
in the game, and allow the player to make at least some further progress.
(S)he wouldn't be able to win, and (s)he wouldn't necessarily get all the
material rewards obtainable by solving the puzzle the 'right' way, but at
least some additional exploration would be possible.

Mind you, I still prefer the approach found in some of the Infocom games
(Wishbringer and Enchanter spring to mind).  In these games you had some
powerful magic item which could be used to 'solve' several of the puzzles
in addition to the 'correct' solution.
-- 
John Francis                                 johnf@apollo.hp.com
with 9 cats to feed, I don't have time to think up a clever .sig
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: A modest proposal (was: What words to use and recognize)
Date: 22 Dec 92 11:16:35 GMT
Organization: Theoretical Physics, Lund University, Sweden

In article <BzMnMI.1zH@apollo.hp.com> johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis) writes:
>Actually, this isn't *quite* such a dumb idea as it seems at first glance.
>What might really be worthwhile to add would be
>
>    BYPASS PUZZLE
>
>This would avoid the frustration of being hung up at a particular point
>in the game, and allow the player to make at least some further progress.
>(S)he wouldn't be able to win, and (s)he wouldn't necessarily get all the
>material rewards obtainable by solving the puzzle the 'right' way, but at
>least some additional exploration would be possible.
>
>Mind you, I still prefer the approach found in some of the Infocom games
>(Wishbringer and Enchanter spring to mind).  In these games you had some
>powerful magic item which could be used to 'solve' several of the puzzles
>in addition to the 'correct' solution.


I think I actually like your suggestion better, because it's honest.

For example, the stupid alternative solution to the "echo room" puzzle
in Zork is IMHO almost a cheat. Instead of performing a lot of clever
actions (as in the original solution), you just do one, rather stupid,
thing, and voila, the puzzle is solved. The worst thing is that this
"solution" is spread via many cheat sheets and hint collections, so
many players don't even know there's a "real" solution (as witnessed
by some flamage in this newsgroup).

              Magnus Olsson                | \e+      /_
    Department of Theoretical Physics      |  \  Z   / q
        University of Lund, Sweden         |   >----<           
 magnus@thep.lu.se, thepmo@seldc52.bitnet  |  /      \===== g
PGP key available via finger or on request | /e-      \q
From: dmb@case.ai.mit.edu (David Baggett)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: PC/Mac TADS v2.0.11 now on ftp.gmd.de, with documentation
Date: 23 Dec 1992 21:21:55 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: case.ai.mit.edu

I have grabbed the latest TADS archives from the High Energy BBS and
have put them up on ftp.gmd.de.  The documentation archive that
contains Ditch Day Drifter source, previously missing, is also on
there now.

Dave Baggett
--
dmb@ai.mit.edu           MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory                  
ADVENTIONS: interactive fiction (text adventures) for the 90's!
dmb@ai.mit.edu *** Compu$erve: 76440,2671 *** GEnie: ADVENTIONS
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: pshepard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Pat Shepard)
Subject: Ignore my request for info on doors...
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix (sponsored by U. of Denver Math/CS dept.)
Disclaimer1: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of
Disclaimer2: Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
Disclaimer3: control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 08:05:28 GMT

Ignore my request for info on how to use doors in TADS 2.0.  I found
my error.  (I was using northwest = doorname instead of nw = doorname).

Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: neilg@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy)
Subject: Re: Classic Infocom Mumblings
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 08:24:21 GMT

jrs@netcom.com (John Switzer) writes:

>Suspended also had some interesting "hidden" features such as having
>Auda follow the two humans around to listen in on their conversation. Great
>fun.

 Hey, I just discovered that one last night...

 - Neil K.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: pshepard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Pat Shepard)
Subject: TADS
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix (sponsored by U. of Denver Math/CS dept.)
Disclaimer1: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of
Disclaimer2: Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
Disclaimer3: control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 04:52:04 GMT

A few days ago I posted that I was having trouble using doors in
TADS 2.0.  I have received no responses.  Please, someone help! :)
 
If someone could send me some functioning code involving a room with
a door (or far better, several doors) I would be eternally appreciative.
Or you could post it here...
 
Thanks
 
Pat

Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: tob@world.std.com (Tom O Breton)
Subject: Whether to use and recognize words
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:22:47 GMT

> But let's stop talking generalities: Why don't you write a game with an
> implementation of your ideas? Then we can see
> a) if it saved you much effort

> b) if the users will like it more than a "conventional" game, and if they
>    won't feel that the game is "too helpful" (*)

I have, in several different ways. They're just not text adventures.(*)

It's possible readers will have heard of the ZZT system (By Tim Sweeney, I
just create stuff on it). Essentially, it contains everything a text
adventure system does, but it all shows on the screen. If you can do
something, the potentiality is obvious.

And I flatter myself that people may have heard of Tehomega (my update of
Laurence Brothers' Omega). Again, if you can do something here, it's obvious
that you can.

I'm also in the process of writing my own game platform (Magic Wilderness),
and it will indeed support a "what can I do with" for late objects.


Users emphatically did not find it too helpful. In fact, one of my two boards
with I won the Best Of ZZT contest (**) is described as "sadistic" and people
are surprised to learn that it's solveable. But it's =fair= -- everything you
need to know is in plain sight.

Saved me effort? I certainly think so. The process you describe sounds a
lot more painful than what I had to do, and much less foolproof.

        Tom



(*) See, I read this newsgroup to hear about abstract stuff such as plotting,
and keeping player interest, and making the game fun, not because I write
text-only games.

(**)  Along with 20 other winners. Don't want to exaggerate my
accomplishment.

PS:  Ack, I intended to write a very short message!

-- 
The Tom spreads its huge, scaly wings and soars into the wild sky...      
(tob@world.std.com)
From: robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: One-dollar cartoons for sale!
Date: 22 Dec 1992 06:37:49 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsunami.berkeley.edu

I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this, but I'll give it a try....
What I have to offer, folks, is among the most artistic, inspired, and
disturbing cartoons to be found anywhere.  Written by Maruo Suehiro, the 
comics depict problematic aspects of 20th-century life.  By sending me
$1 in cash or money order, you get to receive a 10-page sample of highlights.
If what you quest for be new inspirations, new frontiers, I can promise
you you won't be disappointed.  If interested, please send to

Henry Robertson
2206 Durant Ave. #5
Berkeley, CA 94704

And feel free to ask questions.
I look forward to your response!

Include a self-addressed, stamped envelope (29 cents, business size).
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: Nipple Piercing Questions
From: JSCHWIMMER@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Joshua Schwimmer)
Date: 26 Dec 92 01:52:53 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20Lines: 20

I'm piercing my nipple in a week (surgical steel, 14 gauge), and I'm
curious whether anyone has any advice or comments on this type of
piercing.  As this is my first, I have a few basic questions, and
anything you can say would probably be of interest.

Which vitamin supplements enhance tissue regeneration?  50mg zinc 3x
daily seems to be the usual advice.  Has anyone researched this more
thoroughly?

Do those with recently pierced nipples find them too tender to sleep
on?  Have the piercings significantly interfered with anyone's daily
activities?  (I've read the thread on large breasts and nipple
piercings.)  How long, generally, do they take to heal?

Has anyone found Hibiclens to be too harsh?  What other surgical
scrubs work well with piercings?
                                                                     
(As always, apologies if this material has been covered recently.
Please email -- rather than post -- if you your answers are not of
general interest.  Is there a FAQ available?  I saw none.)
From: kmac@cisco.com (Karl MacRae)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: Re: one more thing
Date: 29 Dec 1992 23:08:23 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Menlo Park, California, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: regal.cisco.com

In article <2B40D76E.7703@news.service.uci.edu> dwatanab@mothra.nts.uci.edu (Dana Watanabe) writes:
>
>how the hell do you clean an ampallang


	Boil it for five minutes, or soak overnight in spic 'n span.


		=B^)


	-Karl


  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Karl Elvis MacRae	Software Release Support	Cisco Systems
  kmac@cisco.com -or- batman@cisco.com     415-688-8231   DoD# 1999  FJ1200
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   "You can't upset us! We're the MTV generation;
				 	We feel neither highs, nor lows."
			-Lisa Simpson
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
From: doug@cc.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell)
Subject: Apadravya ?
Organization: Bush in 92 ? NOT!
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 14:40:16 GMT

I currently have a Prince Albert.  I've thought long and hard about an
ampallang (I almost got that instead), but since I have a pre-existing
hole, I'm considering an apadravya instead (I understand that they're
much less painful, for starters).  I'm not really inclined to wear
a PA and an ampallang concurrently, don't ask me why.

I've read - a long time ago - the piercing FAQ.  Does anyone out in
net-land have an apadravya that wishes to comment about difficulties,
healing time, pain, etc. ?  I don't recall much discussion on this
pierce at all.

--
Doug Sewell, Tech Support, Computer Center, Youngstown State University
doug@cc.ysu.edu	   doug@ysub.bitnet	<internet>!cc.ysu.edu!doug

cat core | uuencode bunny.dropping | mail jp@tygra.michigan.com
From: tes0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (THOMAS EDWIN SCHMIDLIN)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: Re: Tattoos.....Questions/Help?
Date: 2 Jan 93 19:30:43 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1993Jan2.043138.11894@mercury.cair.du.edu>, tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.
edu (Jumpin Dude) writes:
>In article <1i2ji5INNdl6@nic.umass.edu> quilty@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Humberto Hu
mbertoldi) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan1.212302.22294@julian.uwo.ca> lrb@alex.ctrg.rri.uwo.ca (Lan
ce R. Bailey) writes:
>>>> I've wanted to get a tattoo or two for quite a long time.  You've all
>>>> probably heard this story before, but please bear with me.  I'm nervous
>>>> about the pain factor.  Does anyone have any words of encouragement?  Can
>>>> anyone even explain the process in-depth for me?  I'm sure there are others
>>>> lurking in the wings, waiting to hear the answers to these questions.
>>>
>>>pain has to be the number one question. right before "why?"
>>>someone sat and stuck me with needles for many hours.  OF COURSE IT HURT!
>>
>>I'll second this.
>
>My memory isn't much good, but it seems to me people ask 'why that'
>much more than 'did it hurt'. BUt I'll offer some words of encouragement:
>Fuck the Pain Factor. It's temporary, and you might like it.
>
>>You can't expect a tatt NOT TO hurt.  But like the
>>previous poster said, it doesn't hurt *that* much, nor for *that*
>>long.
>
>My first and only (so far) felt alternately like a soldering iron,
>an icicle, and/or an exacto blade tracing my skin. There was a
>tremendous variation in sensation, even in the small area inked.
>When the needle(s) were over my shin, the vibration up my leg
>was terrific. IF I watched the gun, it hurt much less. I rather
>enjoyed it, though I walked funny for a few hours, and was in a really
>crappy mood once the (natural opiate-whatever) rush wore off.
>
>>But whatever your
>>feelings about it afterwards, you're going to more-or-less forget the
>>moderate pain involved in getting it after a few days.
>
>Probably not even that long.
>
>Tim
>don't worry, you'll be stoked.
>

My first experience with a tattoo was hellish.  The guy doing it was an
expert, and he did everything he could to make me comfortable, but I was in
considerable pain for 3 hours straight.  I guess it's just me, because most
people say it doesn't hurt that much, but mine did.  I got it on my shoulder
blade, which could be the reason, but it's the only one I have so I can't
compare sensations from different parts of my body.  Would I do it again?
Definately.  Right now I'm saving up for my next tat.  If it's something that
you really want to do, don't let the fear of pain stop you.  Yeah, it wasn't
a real enjoyable sensation for me, but the importance of the tat outweighs
any temporary discomfort.  Your going to have it for the rest of your life, so
if it's not important enough to you to deal with the pain, then it's not
important enough to you to have done.
-- 

Tom Schmidlin
TES0@LEHIGH.EDU
215-758-0875
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart