HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scogpw@thor.cf.ac.uk (Gordon Walker)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.misc
Subject: Re: Mandalaband
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:32:20 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

In article <1992Apr13.111058.6056@ericsson.se> etmmato@sunshine9.ericsson.se (Marcel van Tongeren) writes:
|Hi,
|
|A couple of years ago I heard this great album of the Mandalaband "The Eye of Wendor".
|As far as I now it was never released in The Netherlands (I only have a copy on tape).
|Last week a read something about a debut album of the Mandalaband (SI-magazine) this
|album is from the year 1975 and is available on CD. Can anybody tell me some about this 
|album, like which artist are on it and which style etc. Also does anybody know if "The
|Eye of Wendor" is available on CD ?
|
|Thanks
|
|Marcel.

I posted the following a while back in response to an enquirey about the
*first* album. Strange how this "band" still crops up from time to
time...! I hope all your questions are answered below (except for the CD
one - which I very much doubt. No-one really cared much for the albums
at the time, (except me!) let alone 15 years later).

                     ----------

Mandalaband were never ever a real group - just a name for a concept
band put together by producer Davie Rohl - who, as far as I know, only
ever also produced Barclay James Harvest (when they were a decent band 
in the mid-seventies (IMHO)) and Woolly Wolstenholme's solo album when he
left them (another fine album never to get any credit.......)
There were two formations, and only two albums, altogether, both very 
different.

The first Mandalaband  was basically a forerunner to
British band Sad Cafe - though producing  music far superior to anything
they ever did (IMO). The singer and drummer were never heard of again.
The keyboardist, bass player and guitarist (Ashley Mulford, who is
particularly good on this album) then helped form Sad Cafe. The music,
I'd describe as being driving, melodic rock, with bits of jazz, and
heavier stuff thrown in. The first side is almost all instrumental, the
second side being songs about the Chinese takeover of Tibet.

The second Mandalaband was much more ambitious, involving many top
British musicians of the time (1975ish?) (particularly from the 
Manchester area), with a Tolkienesque story, and much more 'lush' 
soft-rock-type music - with the Halle Orchestra heavily featured. 
Musicians include Justin Heyward, members of 10CC, members of Barclay 
James Harvest, Maddy Prior, singers from Sad Cafe and some choir. 
The album should have been the first of two but the second never made it.

So there you have it - not exactly a milestone of Brtish rock, but
certainly a curiousity. Neither album sold many copies, but somehow I
have both!

Gordon 
(scogpw@thor.cardiff.ac.uk)
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 03:15:30 GMT
Organization: Living in a satellite fantasy, waiting for the night to end.

wai@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Benjamin Wai) writes:

>> People who post to rec.arts.comics are asked to keyword their subject
>> lines to help people decide which articles to read and which ones to
>> ignore.  Posts about manga should have MANGA: in the subject. 
>
> Even you yourself are acknowledging the difference between Manga and
> comics.  Elses, you would not have suggested this, would you?  If Manga is
> supposed to be accepted as comics, there is no need what-so-ever
> requiring to put specificly the word MANGA in the subject line.  

Right.  And since Marvel Comics are comics, there's no need to put MARVEL:
in the subject line, and since Cerebus is a comic, there's no reason to
put CEREBUS in the subject line.  Once again, whether through
bullheadedness or simple out-and-out ignorance, you manage to completely
miss the point.

I don't deny the fact that there's a difference between manga and western
comics, I deny the assertion that the difference between the two is big
enough that the manga newsgroup deserves its own hierarchy outside of the
comics hierarchy.   

> A question: how much different there is between 'comics' and 'western 
> comics' to you anyway?  Honestly, admit to it, they were the same to you 
> until this discussion started a few days ago.  If you did feel all the 
> way that there IS a difference between the two phrases even before this 
> subject comes along, go ahead and spell it out. 

What do you think I've been spending the last three days trying to do?
What do I have to do, draw you a *picture*?
		 ________________________________________
		|                                        |
		|       COMICS                           |
		|   ________________  ________________   |
		|  |                \/                |  |
		|  |    WESTERN     /\     MANGA      |  |
		|  |     COMICS    ( \)  (Eastern     |  |
		|  |                \/\    Comics)    |  |
		|  |________________/\_\______________|  |
		|_______________________\________________|
		                         \
					COMICS THAT DRAW FROM
					BOTH TRADITIONS

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jefft@athena.mit.edu (Jeff Tang)
Subject: Renaming some of the misc  groups.
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: news
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 01:49:23 GMT


This is just a suggestion for a possible new heirarchy.  It strikes me that
many of the   misc.*  groups actually would fall under the heading of
personal  instead of misc.



misc.activism.progressive
misc.consumers
misc.consumers.house
misc.education
misc.emerg-services
misc.entrepreneurs
misc.fitness
misc.forsale
misc.forsale.computers
misc.handicap
misc.invest
misc.jobs.contract
misc.jobs.misc
misc.jobs.offered
misc.jobs.resumes
misc.legal
misc.misc
misc.taxes
misc.wanted
misc.writing


--
Jeff Tang
jefft@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin
From: gritton@alaska.caedm.byu.edu (Jamie Gritton)
Subject: Re: UUNET speaks concerning usa.*
Lines: 11
Date: Thu,  9 Apr 92 20:10:33 MDT
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Reply-To: gritton@byu.edu

mathew@mantis.co.uk writes:

>In the mean time, I'm willing to restart the vote I was proposing to run.

Please do. The sooner it gets in news.announce.newgroups, the better.
Till then, many people will consider it no more than a straw poll,
and it won't be "official."

In the meantime, I'll forge somewhat cautiously ahead.
--
James Gritton - gritton@byu.edu - I disclaim
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga: Replies to Iain Sinclair
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 20:44:43 GMT
Organization: Living in a satellite fantasy, waiting for the night to end.

dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume) writes:

>> ....  "Sequential art", as it is used in colloquial English, means
>> comic books, comic strips, graphic novels, and other similar
>> illustrated stories that are strongly driven by their visual aspect. 
>
> It's dangerous when we define a word using colloquial English.  You've
> just opened the door for  rec.arts.manga fans to say that the colloquial
> definition of "comic" is "western comics" as opposed to "Asian comics". 

The door's *always* been open for them to say that, in fact they've said
it several times.  But that doesn't make it *true*.  (And in fact it's not
. . . The only people who generally exclude manga and similar forms from
the definition of "comics" are apparently the people in alt.manga.  It's
certainly not the case in rec.arts.comics.)

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)

"forests falling at a desperate pace"
From: bell@beethoven.cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.games.frp reorg
Date: 5 Apr 92 08:35:39 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <3392@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>In article <1992Apr1.072757.6533@access.digex.com>, rlb@access.digex.com (Richard L. Butler) writes:
>>[Also Larry Smith]
>>>How is this different from the genre splits that have been proposed a thousand
>>>times before?
>
>>Well, if you've READ Loren's proposal...

>I did.  He proposed a special group for DnD.  That is a game-based split,

No,  it is specifically chosen as a group that will contain an easily
identified,  major subject of rec.games.frp that many readers aren't
interested in.  Your first posting said that if we're going to have .dnd,
we also need .<every other game system> ,  which does not follow -- no
other game systems have consistently had the same level of posting.

The argument against a game system-based split is typically that you
need some large number of groups in order to cover all of the game systems.
This does not follow,  since few game systems have that many advocates on
the net,  and thus would not get the necessary votes for creation.

>I am well aware of his REASONS, Sir, I do not agree with them.

That's because you do seem to be missing the point,  as I quote:

}Terrific idea!  But we'll ALSO need one for non-DnD-related fantasy,
}rec.games.frp.fantasy, and one for for nonserious fantasy, rec.games.frp.toon,
}and one for space opera like Star Wars, rec.games.frp.space-opera-oops, that's
}a game name - rec.games.frp.sf-epics, and one for "serious" space-based rpg's
}rec.games.frp.deepspace, and one for ... and one for ... and one for ...

You jumped to a conclusion that does not follow.

   -Andrew Bell
bell@cs.unc.edu
From: venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA (A violation of net guidelines)
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:25:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In <1992Apr10.002542.24216@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com
(alok.vijayvargia) writes: 

>> In article <CKD.92Apr6184721@loiosh.eff.org>, ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
>> says:
>> >
>> > Alok> == alok.vijayvargia  <alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
>> >
>> > Alok> While I maintain that the initial reasons for taking it off the
>> > Alok> official list were the problems associated with its name, I would
>> > Alok> also like to point out that whatever the reasons for earlier SCIA
>> > Alok> group to be not official, the current RFD is a clear VIOLATION of
>> > Alok> the net guidelines.
>> >
>> >This is incorrect; in the case of an invalidated vote, a revote is *not*
>> >contraSpafual.  The precedent was set quite effectively after the first
>> >rec.arts.sf-lovers reorganization vote...
>> >

>Then the precedence should be reexamined.

So whis this being posted in SCI or SCIA? The proper place for re-examining
net guidelines would be news.groups, I should think.

>Violation here is in posting the second RFD for SCIA before six months
>have expired.

How is this a violation of the guidelines, as they stand? Post the
guidelines, Alok, and dont make these unsubstantiated statements.

>Furthermore the previos vote of SCIA HAS NOT BEEN INVALIDATED YET.
>Not officially. Why ?  I believe it is because the objections are 
>either trivial or simply objectionable enough not to invalidate
>the previous vote.

Because it is not considered important enough to invalidate...it is not
carried by many sites, you know. The reason for that is *your* unethical
vote-taking, Alok.
-- 
Venu Nayar			|		Internet: venu@cirrus.com
Cirrus Logic Inc.		|		(415)-226-2100 X3737
I don't have to take this abuse from you -- I've got hundreds of
people waiting to abuse me.
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:36:40 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime) writes:

>I would recommend against it at this time; I have seen almost no spill-over
>of manga discussions into rec.arts.comics, which is where this would be
>discussed in the usual Usenet heirarchy -- and this makes me suspicious of
>the popularity of such a newsgroup.  I think you need to run a test on 
>a fully-propogated rec. group first to see what amount of traffic you're
>actually going to get.

    You know I made a very similar statment in the first posting that I
sent on this group. But it was shot down immediately. Personally i
wouldn't mind the addition of another newsgroup, but perhaps people will
listen to Jeff because he is more of a "Net God" than I am. ;->

>Suggestion: try posting in rec.arts.comics with the keyword "MANGA: " at the
>beginning of the subject line for a month or two, and we'll see how the
>traffic stacks up to everything else there.

    A number of people stated that they think their manga discussions
would get lost in the normal rec.arts.comics traffic. Oh, yeah, and
manga aren't comics, so why would they talk about them in r.a.c. In fact
I remember one person saying he would post a manga related discussion to
rec.arts.anime before he posted it to r.a.c.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
From: tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Tonghyun Kim)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:19:41 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <sgs2bINNn3r@agate.berkeley.edu> goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) writes:
>
>	But we already have a group for animation -- rec.arts.anime.
>Presumably rec.arts.(comics.)manga would not primarily be meant for
>discussions of animated manga, since those discussions could take
>place in rec.arts.anime. What does that leave? Printed manga. Which,
>by your own statement here, *is* comics.

Please don't leave out the important part of my posting. Yes,
printed manga is *comics* and that's why I proposed
rec.arts.comics.asian instead of rec.arts.comics.manga, to avoid
confusion resulting from the broad usage of the word "manga"..

>
>	Maybe we should create soc.culture.japan.manga and change
>rec.arts.anime to soc.culture.japan.anime.  1/2 :-)
>

NO. Anime/manga doesn't neccessarily belong under *.Japan hierachy
because manga newsgroup will also cover non-Japanese manga as well.
However, something like rec.arts.asian.manga and
rec.arts.asian.anime wouldn't be too bad. :-)


Tonghyun "Vajra" Kim
tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu




Newsgroups: news.groups
From: s3583045@titan.ucc.umass.edu (John Greene)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.enya
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:50:43 GMT

In article <frnk.702758275@cs1.bradley.edu> frnk@cs1.bradley.edu (Paul Ondercin) writes:

>   I have adhered to the guidelines for the creation of a newsgroup. The only
>negative postes I have seen are only to the creation of the group. Therefor,
>I am now writing the CFV.
>

Why are you so against a mailing list?  Jesus!  Make the mailing list, and
if there's overwhelming need we'll think about the group.  So you've adhered
to the guidelines.... BFD.....  Let's you you adhere to some nettiquette and
do a mailing list first.

>
>>Warm up your NO votes, folks.  Let's set a record for lop-sided NO
>>results.
WHAT HE SAID^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>	 Frnk! :>

-jg
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 12 Apr 92 19:10:04 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School

I wrote:
>>Well, I live in a house with 10,000 comics which I don't own so I guess
>>I'm uninformed. The _charter_ for this group refers to manga as a type
of
>>comic book. By accepting this charter proposal the supporters of the
group
>>are telling us (the uninformed) that manga are comics.

In <44618@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes:
>     To the best of my knowledge, it is the only way to make the proposal
>understandable by you (the uninformed).  Correct me if I am wrong.

You aren't wrong. You made it perfectly understandable to me. Manga can
only be described as comics. The charter does an excellent job of
explaining that to me. It also does an excellent job of making it clear
that the proposed charter and the proposed group name at contradictory.

Change one or the other. I honestly don't care which.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU  -  Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business

  "Right now, I am trying to overthrow the Government of the United States."
		-Patrick "Hatrack" Buchanan
From: jml12@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jonathan M Lennox)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: A new idea for the placement of a manga group
Date: 13 Apr 92 04:26:19 GMT
Reply-To: jml12@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jonathan M Lennox)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <axolotl.703050947@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au writes:
>Considering that (in my estimate) there is about five times as much
>manga-related traffic in rec.arts.anime than in rec.arts.comics,
>rec.arts.anime.manga would be much more appropriate than
>rec.arts.comics.manga.   Rec.arts.manga is more appropriate still.

  rec.arts.anime.manga would not be appropriate at all--I don't think
anyone is saying that manga are a type or a subcategory of anime.
After all, a fundamental characteristic of anime is that they're
ANIMATED, and a fundamental characteristic of manga is that they're
PRINTED.

  However, I realize that anime and manga share many more common
characteristics than western comics and manga.  I do not think that
this should be irrelevant to the choice of placement of the group.

  The rec.arts hierarchy currently has two different modes of
organizational structure--the medium-oriented (such as rec.arts.tv)
and the genre-oriented (such as rec.arts.sf).  In terms of medium,
manga are generally similar (broadly) to western comics--they are
"sequential art."  In terms of genre, they are generally similar to
anime.

  The quote above (and many posings in the recent flamewar) have
indicated that manga fans object to a medium-oriented grouping of
manga and western comics.  Thus it seems that a genre-oriented
grouping would be more appropriate, creating a hierarchy that would
include both manga and anime.  

  Unfortunately, I don't know of a good, one-word, common English term
which would encompass both manga and anime and which would be obvious
to outsiders.  The only term which comes to me off-hand is
rec.arts.japanese.*, but that seems simultaneously far too broad
(insofar as there are MANY more japanese arts than manga and anime,
obviously, many of which are very distant in style and cultural
significance from these two) and too limiting (in that it excludes
manga and anime from other East Asian countries besides Japan).
However, if such a term could be found, it seems that the creation of
the hierarchy

rec.arts.<whatever>

containing

rec.arts.<whatever>.anime
and
rec.arts.<whatever>.manga

(with the former moved from its current position as rec.arts.anime)
should be a satisfactory solution to nearly everyone.

comments?

Jonathan Lennox
jml12@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
From: alex@fff.chem.utah.edu (Alex Dommasch)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Was comp.progamming ever passed?
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:29:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: fcom.1992Apr8.152916.19140
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center

I remember quite a while ago a vote on comp.programming.  I don't see it on my  
newsreader.  Did it pass?  If it did, I'l bug my news admin to add it.
--
Alex Dommasch
alex@fff.chem.utah.edu (NeXT Mail)
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume)
Subject: Re: Some comments on this rec.arts.{whatever}.manga
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:18:05 GMT

conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty) writes:
>It's more than enough for asian comics to have their own newsgroup.

That can be read as having an ugly tone.  Hope you didn't imply that.
It's "more than enough" for there to exist almost any rec* group.  I
believe there is sufficient demand for some sort of *manga group, IMHO.

--David
-------------            --------------------------          ----------------
|.<.....@...+############+ David Blume            +####      |.........>....|
|...........|            | dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com |   #######+..............|
-------------            --------------------------          ----------------
Xref: sparky news.groups:10078 rec.games.mud:4797 rec.games.mud.lp:1498
From: downsj@nyssa.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: rec.games.mud reorg, opinion
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:32:24 GMT
Organization: spherical domain of death and darkness


reorginzation attempts have been made with rec.games.mud in the past. they
haven't succeeded yet. is now the time to try and reorg it? no. rec.games.mud
simply cannot be successfully reorganized, as a consensus regarding how to
reorganize it is impossible to reach.

the simplest thing to do, i suppose, is just allow the trend of creating
new groups as needed, one at a time, that started with rec.games.mud.lp.
i have nothing against people trying to get rec.games.mud.diku started,
i'll simply not vote for it either way. on the other hand, what i do
think we need is rec.games.mud.annouce, moderated. we don't NEED anything
else at this time; certainly not a rec.games.mud.tiny of all things.

above all else, rec.games.mud should be left as is.

-- 
\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/
 \           - jason downs -           /\     - downsj@janus.cs.pdx.edu -    /
 / zeppelin/cryvortex/amiga/insane guy \/ note new temporary address above!! \
/-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Tanukijin)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Even more on the rec.*.manga debate
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:09:13 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Apr16.072950.14059@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, bn510@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Matthew L. High) writes:
> 
> Well, now the straw poll is over - and the clear majority of news-
> readers support r.a.manga.  However, I should note that the gap 
> between votes kept closing as the poll progressed.  Early on, 
> r.a.manga was beating r.a.c.manga by a 3 to 1 and even 4 to 1 margin.
> Towards the end of the voting, however, more r.a.c.m. votes were
> coming in than r.a.manga votes.

If I remember correctly, you posted your Straw Poll to rec.arts.comics some
time after you posted it to the other newsgroups.  Perhaps that's why you
had this late surge of "no" votes?

> In a somewhat inflammatory message (directed at noone in particular)
> I posted to alt.manga, I asked people to vote for the proposed
> manga group REGARDLESS of whatever name is chosen.

Which I will do.

> PS Watch for the Bubblegum Crisis comic later this year, art by 
>   Adam Warren!  Yow!

Say whaaaat?!?  Could you post more info about this?  Crosspost between
rec.arts.anime and rec.arts.comics.
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		   Disclaimer:  You're not dealing with AT&T.
Xref: sparky news.groups:9680 soc.culture.indian.american:1669 soc.culture.indian:13526