HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: GCTHORNE@idbsu.idbsu.edu
Subject:      U-Haul Prices from Ca.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 18:13:30 MST
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      Someone mentions that U-Hauls *from* California are much
      more expensive than U-Hauls *to* California.

    ( Sorry for the poor reference but this stupid netnews isn't
      working right today )


       Yes.  It's true.  U-Haul trailers were going for around $250,
     to L.A. from Boise, a few months ago.  U-Haul had a L.A. special
     running for MONTHS. :)

        And I previously mentioned the same thing happening with
     Ryder trucks two years ago.  Nobody wants to believe though.
     Oh, well.  Not *my* problem.  :)

       My theory:

       The people *leaving* California are middle class, with lots
     of belongings.

       The people moving *to* California are young ( and naive :) )
    or poor, and lacking in belongings.
From: txl@teradata.com (Tuan Le)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: software co's
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:43:33 GMT
Reply-To: txl@tdat.teradata.com (Tuan Le)
Organization: Teradata Corp., El Segundo, CA

In article <91620@bu.edu> merritt@macro.bu.edu (Sean Merritt) writes:
>
>
>	Am I missing something here? Borland comes out with
>	earnigns off 87% and the stock goes up?
>	Lotus comes out with earning up 26% (below street
>	expectations slightly) and the stock takes a dive?
>	Shouldn't this happen the other way around?
>-- 
>Sean J. Merritt		         |      Nietzsche che dice?
>Dept of Physics Boston University| 	       Boh!	
>merritt@budoe.bu.edu		 | 

Stock prices move according to reality vs. expectation of earnings.  
If Lotus' earning did not go up as much as expected, its stock gets punished.  If Borland's did not go down as bad as expected, ...
Hope this helps.

-Tuan with his 2 cents

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: gilman@cshl.org (Michael Gilman)
Subject: Janus management agreement
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:34:53 GMT

Hi, netters.

I just received a prospectus from Janus,
and slipped insided was a single sheet of fine print
that seemed to indicate some changes in the
relationship between the Fund and its investment
managers. One consequence seems to be a potential
increase in the management fees charged to the Fund.

Has anyone out there seen this document?
Can you translate it into English for the rest of us?
One of the attractive aspects of Janus has been
its relatively low expense ratios. Is this going to change?

Michael Gilman
gilman@cshl.org
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: bsirvine@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Flogger-D)
Subject: Performance of 20th Century Funds this year.
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 15:01:41 EDT

I don't have a lot of time to analyse the markets, but I've been
disappointed in 20th Century's funds this year.  Can anyone tell 
me what has happened to them, especially Ultra and Vista?
Seems like this spring, the market would be up and they would
be down.  Now the market is down and they are down also.

In Ultra, last I checked I'm down about 30%.

bsirvine
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Perot shorts Citibank
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:05:37 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

There has been misinformation about putative Presidential passerby
Perot's short sale of Citicorp (CCI, parent company of Citibank).
The best thing I've read on this subject came from the July 3rd issue
of Market Logic.  Quote:

	Ross Perot told millions of television viewers this week that
	the nation's largest bank is insolvent.  We like Citibank...

	Mr. Perot apparently does not like Citicorp.  He has sold short
	more than 100,000 shares of its stock [currently at 19.75 for a
	total position of about -$2 million].  His short position shows
	an enormous unrealized loss, as the stock has more than doubled
	since he started shorting.  In fact, he has already lost more
	than 100% of his initial investment...

	There is absolutely nothing illegal about someone who is short
	a stock attempting to "talk it down" by making truthful negative
	statements about the firm-- just as there is absolutely nothing
	wrong with an investor who owns a stock making truthful positive
	statements to "talk it up"...

	We wouldn't "sell short" Mr. Perot's Presidential chances.  But
	we ask, should an (almost) Presidential candidate be using the
	forum that status provides to engineer a bear raid on the stock
	of America's biggest bank?
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: nfs@dynamic (Norbert Schlenker)
Subject: Re: Mortgage Mutual Funds
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University, Dept. of Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 02:11:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.075831.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> singer@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
>I recently added to my mortgage mutual funds, currently paying around 8.5%
>return (Canadian). Some funds have better portfolios of mortgages (longer term,
>higher rates) than others, and the downside risk is somewhat limited. I wonder
>if the U.S. mortgage funds are doing as well, and whether there has been any
>recent publications analysing these kinds of securities for this kind of time.-- 

U.S. mortgages are fundamentally different from Canadian mortgages.
They are written on 30 year terms (yes, some terms are shorter) at
interest rates fixed for the entire term, and with prepayment
privileges.  Canadian mortgages are written on 5 year terms (yes, some
terms are shorter) with 30 year amortization schedules and without
prepayment privileges.

The difference in prepayment privilege makes U.S. mortgages a much
riskier investment, which makes U.S. GNMA funds much riskier than the
average Canadian mortgage fund.

Norbert
nfs@cs.princeton.edu
Organization: Senior, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: misc.invest,sci.econ
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:55:07 -0400 
From: Thomas Omar Smith <ts2a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Should we limit the shorts life time.

>  One of the reasons that stock market crashes is the frenzy of shorting
>by big investors.  For example, Mr. Ross Perot have shorted $1M of citibank.
>The funny thing is these "Market Terrorists" do not have to cover their
shorts.
>I was wondering would be a good Idea to tell people "you can not sell things
>that you do not own, or buy a put option, or write a call option". At least,
>they should limit the time they should cover their shorts.  This would
>make an individual investor on the same footing as large investor.  So, 
>when Mr. Perot or people like him decide to run against an incumbent
President,
>they could not sell things that they do not own, bring the market down,
>and influence the democratic process this way.
>
>                      With highest regards,
>                           Babak   Sehari.

I'd love to know how they get out of covering themselves when they sell
short.  I'd be a millionaire in a day if this was possible.  And if you
think HRP with $1M in stock is going to noticeably influence the market,
you're a fool.  For that matter, HRP with $1B would hardly make a
noticeable dent.

If you sell short, you will have to cover it.  If you delay covering,
you have to pay the dividends yourself.  There is no free ride.

Besides, if you stopped all shorting, that would decrease demand, and
prices would drop (but I doubt it would be a huge effect).

					Tom the non hacker
					Kemp in 96!
					"If patriotism is the last refuge
					of scoundrels,  Then environmentalism
					is the current refuge of totalitarians."
					Bob Jackson
From: ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu (Ajay Shah)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Fundamentals, my dear Watson, fundamentals!
Date: 31 Jul 1992 13:38:53 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: almaak.usc.edu

bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes:

>In article <1992Jul31.171217.20302@cs.umn.edu> prabhak@cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar) writes:
>>...
>>But what I don't get is this: What the hell do investors see in
>>the economy to bid up the prices so much?

>I agree with your assesment.  About the only thing I can think of
>is that people may see slow but steady growth in the forseeable
>future and they believe that this will be good for earnings growth.

I think the economy is pretty trashed right now.  I think the stock
market has got a real steep fall coming.  I am shocked at how
overvalued many stocks are -- e.g. msft is absolutely bloated, with
sales of $3.5 billion and a market capitalisation of $18 billion.
Would you pay $18 billion for this company?

Before we try to imagine complex chains of reasoning to justify what
the market is upto, let's not ignore the fact that the market does a
steep drop every now and then.  Did things look insane in 1987?  You
bet.  Did people try to claim all was meaningful?  Most did.  It's
hard getting off a bandwagon, esp. this one.

Time to short!

        -ans.
-- 
Ajay Shah, (213)749-8133, ajayshah@usc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant)
Subject: Should I seek "safe" investments?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:38:00 GMT

Over the past 50 years, equity investments have earned far more on the
average than fixed-income investments.  For periods of 5 years or
more, only the crash of 1929 (which was more than 50 years ago) was a
better time to have invested in income than in equity.  And we don't
expect anything like that to happen again, do we?

If I invest long-term in "safe" income investments, the dollar value
of my investment is secure.  But there is a significant risk that
after taxes and investment expenses, and after inflation, the
purchasing power of my investment will be less than when I started.

Given that history, and given that I am investing a sum of money now
with no expectation of having to draw on it within five years, is
there any reason why I should not put it all in equities?  Is there
any reason not to put it in an aggressive equity porfolio?

							Marty
marty@hoqaa.att.com		hoqaa!marty
Martin B. Brilliant		(Winnertech Corporation)
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Should I seek "safe" investments?
Date: 23 Jul 92 04:00:14 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Jul22.170047.24671@draco.macsch.com> rot@mickie.id.macsch.com writes:
>You should first decide how risk-averse you are.
>Once you know how much risk you are willing to 
>take with your investments, you can decide on the
>investment choice.
>
>Reproduced without permission:
>
>The Sleeping Scale of Investment Choices
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Sleeping Point	    Type of Asset	Expected Return (1990)
>					(before taxes)
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Semicomatose	    Bank Accounts	5-5.5%
>state
>
[...]
>
>Bouts of imsomnia.  Gold		Impossible to
>					predict.
>--------------------------------------------------------------

Well heck, how about commodity futures, puts and calls and all
that? "LSD-induced trips"?

But seriously ... someone here was recently claiming that
"high-risk, high-return" investments seldom jusified the
risk with the return, essentially because people are willing
to pay a premium for the fun and excitement of high-risk,
high-return investments.

What do others think of this theory? Seems kind of plausible
to me. Look at the way people buy lottery tickets.

Paul
From: miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman )
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Splitting $ into mutual funds (?)
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:28:38 GMT
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California

a_willisgt@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:

>  In the course of explaining mutual funds and the like, he asked me if he
>should open seperate accounts: one for retirement, one for tuition, etc.  I
>didn't really know what to say. I've just one one fund, one account, and that's

	(Free advice - you get what you pay for)

	IMHO, the minimum would be to open one acct for general savings,
	one IRA for oneself, one for the spouse, and one for each child.
	According to what I heard from Schwab, one can set up a trust
	acct for the child(ren) which you can keep them from controlling
	until they reach a state-specified age (25 in Calif).  I haven't
	gotten around to it but I would imagine that there's no reason why 
	one couldn't set up an IRA for each child which could be used for 
	college tuition (as long as you pay it back to the IRA acct.)	I
	may be confusing 401k with IRA in the tuition area.  Brokers like
	Schwab can fill you in.

	I and some friends have been watching funds for some years and
	one reason to diversify is simply that you can't predict the
	future (surprise!) so why bank that Magellan (to choose one at
	random) is going to average 23% over the next 10 years as they have
	over the last 10?

	On the subject of mutual funds, there's a lot of debate over
	load vs. no load.  I ran a couple of hypothetical runs at 3% and
	6% load vs 0%, using the Future Value button on my calculator.
	For long term investing (18 years) even 6% load is worth it
	if you can get a higher rate of return.  The points where a
	loaded fund is better vary depending on projected interest
	rates, but they are around 10-15 years if the loaded fund does 1%
	better annually than the no load fund.  (Remember to correct for
	inflation by subtracting the inflation rate from your projected
	rate of return).

	- Michael Goldman

-- 
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives." - Abba Eban
	Disclaimer:  All views are solely my own & not the views of Acuson.
	<sun!sono!miklg>  or  [miklg@acuson.com]
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Need Rate of Return formulas
Date: 24 Jul 92 05:12:42 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona

In article <1992Jul23.182625.4762@advtech.uswest.com> deg@rustin.uswest.com ( Don Gillespie) writes:
>A real example:
>	If I invested various sums of money into a mutual fund at 
>	various times, I'd like to calculate the rate of return based
>	on the total amount invested vs. the current value of my account.
>	Note that this is quite different than the fund's effective yield
>	since the price and dates on which I buy shares is very variable
>	(you know, buy high, sell low :) ).

You can do it by taking a weighting of your total profit on
a per-share basis, but once you sell any of the shares this
model becomes undefined.

>What I really want:
>	The same thing as the previous example, but also take into account
>	selling some of the fund shares at various times.

There's no way to reconcile this.

What you should do instead is consider each trade as a
decision point, where you place a net-gain-since-last-trade
point on the graph.  Semantically, it's like every time you
buy or sell, you're really selling it all and buying back
all of it plus or minus the marginal trade you just made.

				--Blair
				  "Each posting is like I erase my mind
				   and fill it again plus or minus the
				   screed I just made..."

As for the ROR:

	m(t) = m(0) * (1+APR/100*k)^t

so

	APR = 100*k*[(m(t)/m(0))^(1/t)]

where K depends on the periodicity of the compounding;
e.g., K=12 for monthly, 365.25 for daily, 1.0 for annually.

in your case, APR = 100*1.0*[(1150/1000)^(1/1.5)] = not 10%, certainly.

Again, all you're doing here is comparing it against some
sort of standardized-return investment, one that actually
pays daily- or monthly-compounded interest, rather than
considering your situation as it really is, two discrete
endpoints in a continuum of market-value trading.
From: ohumukin@spectra.com (Kawika Ohumukini)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Charles J. Givens
Date: 20 Jul 92 15:16:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: spectra.1992Jul20.151647.14726
Organization: Spectragraphics Corporation

In article <1992Jul18.154738.19843@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>
>A friend of mine with a lot of money and no common sense recently
>paid $1000 for a Charles Givens home-study course in investing and
>personal money management.
>
>Anyway, the merchandize includes audio and video cassettes titled
>"Money Strategies Financial Library." The $1000 fee also allows
>him to get free personal money-management advise for the rest of
>his life from a Charles Givens financial advisor.
>
>Does anyone have experience in dealing with the Charles J. Givens
>Organization and this particular program?
>
>In particular, I believe my friend has a 30-day trial period in
>which he can cancel. My opinion is that he should cancel. What
>do you think?

I don't have experience but consider this, if you went to a horse race
with a friend and told him not to bet on a particular horse they liked,
then that horse won, how would you feel?  Don't feel for him, look at
the consequences of your actions on yourself.  Do you really want to
take responsibility for HIS actions?

"There is no greater alarm clock than a bad burn, or a fat check. And
you'll never awake if you never set the timer or you hit the snooze button."

Have a great day!

Kawika
From: McAldon International Inc. <mcaldon@igc.org>
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:21 PDT
Subject: Re: Buying gold
Nf-ID: #R:Brt21D.Fs7@news.cso.uiuc.edu:-1517745006:cdp:1426500225:000:753
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mcaldon    Jul 24 21:21:00 1992


[...]
Basically, I want to buy a few ounces of gold that no one will question
the value of, at a price as close as possible to the quoted daily price
for an ounce of gold.  Any suggestions on how this can be done?

Barron's publishes a weekly summary of the prices of the common gold
coins, along with a statement of what each coin costs over the price of
spot gold.  You won't find a much cheaper "bar" of gold than some of the
coins, although you may have difficulty finding a small quantity of
gold coins at the price quoted.  At least Barron's gives you benchmarks.
Krugerrands seem the best buy.  DMcKenzie

|    mcaldon@igc.org     | Opinions dispensed herein not guaranteed |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
From: cs6@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Eric Sit 3611)
Subject: Re: Northern Telecom Stocks 
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 22:12:06 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.173902.12400@bnr.ca> linb@bnr.ca writes:
>Does anyone know why NT stock tumbled $3-4 today?
>
>Are there any people following this stock and can provide 
>some comments?
>
>Thanks
>
>Bin
>
>

Latest quarter earning report was out yesterday.  Revenue was up 
but earning was down.  You can check the story in today's WSJ.


Eric
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Odd lot - does it make sense ?
Date: 23 Jul 92 06:19:36 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: misc.invest
Distribution: usa

dkulkarn@haydn.helios.nd.edu (Dinesh Kulkarni) writes:
|
|I have a bsic question about the no. of shares per trade.
|
|Does it make sense to buy an odd lot of shares (<100) ?  Does it create
|problems if you try to sell the stock at market rate (instead of a limit
|order) ?  Are these problems lower in case of a blue-chip stock like
|AT&T or IBM ?

Some brokers supposedly charge an extra commission for an odd
lot.  Find out first before selecting a broker.

An exchange specialist is supposed to be entitled to charge 1/8
if s/he executes an odd lot (according to a book by the New
York Institute of Finance).  However, many executions do not go
to exchange specialists.

Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: 401(k) and other pension plan distributions
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 20:01:29 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

johne@vcd.hp.com (John Eaton) writes:
   [ .... ]
> With the new law you can expect the majority to roll their pensions into
> IRA's to escape the witholding. Of course 87% will then turn around and
> withdraw the money from the IRA. I guess the next step will be to put
> mandatory withholdings on ALL IRA withdraws. 

BITE YOUR DAMN TONGUE!!! Don't give Congress any ideas, please. 

I'm seriously contemplating discontinuing my 401K investments and
switching to after-tax funds to minimize my exposure to this. I've 
seen seven people escorted to the door from my department, and a
couple more that left for other jobs (and we've got a contract for
$170 million in business over the next year, with a possible add-on
of another $300 million or so). The atmosphere doesn't make me feel
comfortable, even with 11 years at the place.

Needless to say, I'm voting against incumbents as a matter of policy
this year.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
From: prabhak@cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar)
Subject: What does it take to become a CFP?
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:27:26 GMT

Hi,

I would like to know how ones goes about becoming a 
certified financial planner? Does one have to take
an exam or enroll in a course or what?

Please advise.

Thanks, Satya Prabhakar

Postscript: The cabbie from the Big Apple is vacationing in
            Wichita, Kansas and Blaine, Minnesota, far far
            away from buzzing telequotes and voice pagers.
	    FYI.
From: rvp2f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Ramakrishna  Polamraju)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Investing thro' Schwab without commissions in no load funds??
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:19:05 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

Charles Schwab started offering some mutual funds without 
any fee. Apparently they will be getting some commission from the
mutual funds themselves. Currently the following groups are in their
no fee list:
	Janus, Dreyfys, Financial, Berger, Founders,
	Neuberger & Berman, Founders, SteinRoe, Federated, Schwab

Earlier I was directly investing in Janus and Neuberger & Berman. Now
it may be better to invest thro' Schwab in the above funds, especially
if they are no load funds. The advantages I see are:

	- single statement for all the funds
	- can borrow on margin  

Does any one see any other hidden fee or other disadvantages, and 
advantages?

Prasad Polamraju
email: rvp2f@virginia.edu
From: petebob@sequent.com (Pete Apple)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Myopia Technology
Date: 21 Jul 92 04:19:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Jul21.041957.18131
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

Is anyone famliar with the financial history/predicted future of either
VISX Inc. of Sunnyvale, Calif. and/or Summit Technology Inc. of Waltham,
Mass.  Does anyone know of any Funds that invest in these companies?

Thanks,
-- 
Pete_Bob Apple					       Sequent Computer Systems
petebob@sequent.com, sequent!petebob		       15450 S.W. Koll Parkway
Bob is not just a name..			       Beaverton, Oregon 97006
It's a way of life.. 				       (503) 626-5700