HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tjio@venice.sedd.trw.com (Lee Tjio)
Subject: What do listing agents do??? 
Organization: TRW Systems Engineering & Development Division, Carson, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:48:12 GMT

While I could see the "added value" of using a realtor to find a home, I
still fail to see the need to have a listing agent.  All they do is
to spend 30 min to figure out what the seller's asking $$ and desires
are, to spend 10 min to fill out the form to go to MLS, and to put
up a sign that is more like an advertisement for themselves.  After all 
that, they sit on their butt waiting for offers. And they get 3% of the
sale price???? OR do I just happen to use a "bad" realtor.  What would 
a good listing agent do?

 
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: stevet@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (stephen.e.turpin)
Subject: Re: Insurance solicitations
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:33:31 GMT

In some cases, the mortgage company OWNS the insurance company.
I believe Countrywide Mortgage is one example.

Steve Turpin
AT&T Bell Labs
From: jeff@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Jeff Lim)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Property Insurance, Do you mix personal and investment together??
Keywords: Insurance, Residential Rental, Liability, Separate vs Umbrella
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:39:39 GMT
Distribution: usa


     RE Investors,

     Regarding residential rental property insurance, how do you buy the 
     policy??   As a separate policy from you personal home policy or
     would you add it to you home policy??    Its it better to have
     separate liability from your personal or would a single "Unbrella"
     policy be good enough??   I thank you in advance for you comments 
     and replies.


       Jeff


     jeff@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com

Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: ajg@controls.ccd.harris.com (Arnold Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Negotiating a lower commission after an offer
Organization: Harris Controls and Compositions
Distribution: misc
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:49:01 GMT

>>>>> On 14 Dec 92 16:13:08 GMT, drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD) said:

BurrittD> For example, let's say you had a house listed at 100K, your
BurrittD> realtor found someone who made an offer of 95K.
BurrittD> The realtor suggests you take the offer. You say OK, but
BurrittD> since I am losing 5 K on the deal it seems only fair that
BurrittD> you only get 3.5% instead of 7%. This assumes the person who
BurrittD> made the offer is not working with a different realtor.

BurrittD> I'll bet quite a few realtors whould do it. Especially if the
BurrittD> listing was about to expire.

I'll bet you're right :)

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arnold Goldberg                            Email:  ajg@ccd.harris.com
Phone: (407)242-5051                       Snail:  Harris Controls
Fax  : (407)242-4262                               407 John Rodes Blvd.
                                                   Melbourne, FL 32905
The opinions expressed are my own and do not in any way represent Harris 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: markh@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu (Mark Hurwitz)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: How do I get info. about housing in a distant city?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 17:27:51 GMT
Organization: Space Science Labs
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu


Here's the situation.  There are some cities in neighboring states
about which I would like to learn the following...

-current housing prices in general
-recent trends in home prices
-cost to rent a house
-rental house vacancy rates

Some subset of these statistics might be available in a Sunday
newspaper, if it had a good real estate section.  I suppose I could
get my hands on some Sunday papers.  But are there any other suggestions
out there?  Do Chambers of Commerce provide such info, and is it
trustworthy, or hyped ?  Any other ideas?

Thanks
Mark
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: REALTORS ARE WORTH EVERY PENNY AND MORE
Date: 20 Dec 92 17:44:22 GMT
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One

In article <LARRY.92Dec18163917@boris.webo.dg.com> larry@boris.webo.dg.com (Larry Rogers) writes:
=
=Actually, I feel Dave is quite right on with the points he was making.
=My experiences with realtors have left me with the following
=impressions. I have only dealt with half a dozen and realize that is
=not a good overall representation.  However, it was amazing to me how
=alike they all were.
=
=1. They primarily represent themselves, not the seller or buyer, and
=   are most interested in what they can sell fast and at the best
=   commission.

That's certainly a motivator. However, good REs depend on referrals for
future business, and will not intentionally insult a customer/client by
letting him think that they are motivated only by the fast buck.

=2. They make alot of promises they cannot keep.

Too broad.

=   For example, I had
=   one woman tell me how for the amount I wanted to spend, she could
=   find me my dream house.

And a little bell didn't go off in your head? :-)

=    Several other
=   experiences with independent realtors telling me properties
=   requiring septic had town sewer and making other false claims tells
=   me that most are ill-informed or will say anything to make the
=   sale.

That stuff is actionable. Did you tell the board of realtors? the Better
Business Bureau? Your lawyer? No? Then you are contributing to the problem.

=3. They remind me alot of "ambulance chaser" lawyers.  Wanting to
=   reach a deal (settlement) as fast as possible with neither the
=   interest of the seller nor the buyer in mind.

See 1.

=4. They are salesmen, pure and simple.

Well, they certainly are salespeople, but very few of them are "pure"
and very few are "simple". ;-) You're suggesting that there's something
wrong with being a salesperson, right?

=Basically, I would probably use a realtor to sell my house because
=they would save me time, and that is more important to me than the
=money.  But I would never trust them as far as I could throw them.

Have you read about the minister who sexually molested children over a
long period of time? What about bank presidents who embezzle? Ever hear
of the S&L crisis? You need to develop some ability to discriminate
among the people who make up every group you come in contact with or you
will spend your life hiding under your bed. ;-)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: bobk@sequent.com (Bob Krull)
Subject: Re: Real-Estate Groups
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 22:24:48 GMT

In article <AJG.92Dec16174047@sp1.ccd.harris.com> ajg@controls.ccd.harris.com (Arnold Goldberg) writes:
>>>>>> On 16 Dec 92 14:06:34 -0600, pcs$1703@altair.selu.edu said:
>
>pcs> Is there any other news groups around that discuss real-estate or
>pcs> creative financing ?
>
>Nope, this is pretty much it...
>
>There are a lot of knowledgable people on here, so ask away
>
>

Yeah!  And if we don't have the knowledge, we will certainly have
opinions! ;-) ;-)

-Bob
bobk@sequent.com

Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: lparisi@shearson.com (Lon G. Parisi)
Subject: Trying to buy my first Apt.
Organization: Lehman Brothers, NY
Distribution: misc.invest.real-estate
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:27:04 GMT

Hello people,

I'm going to be in the market for my first apartment.  I am interested in buying
a one-bedroom apartment that is a fixer-upper. I have a lot of questions 
but will only ask a few for now.

Q1. How much should I spend? I know this is a broad question but I don't think
I should have to spend more than 135,000 on a fix up place in a decent building
with a doorman.  I know it may take a little bit of a search, but I can take
as much time as I need to find this type of scenario (I do not have any time
limit on my lease). 

Q2. Has the market bottomed out yet? Should I delay buying? 

Q3. The financing is a complicated aspect of this post. I have taken a spread
sheet and taken $100,000 dollar mortgage at a current 30 year fixed rate, 
assumed a certain maintenance ($550/month). I compared this to my current rent
as noticed that owning is considerably more than renting (BTW, I have a great
deal so it did not suprise me). I then considered the tax deductions of the    
interest portion of the mortgage payments as well as the interest portion
of the underlying building mortgage built into the maintenance. After all
these calculations were done, I found that owning is a little more than renting.
Now, for the question. When going to a see a loan officer do they just
take a check-off list and let that be the sole deciding factor. Or do they
look at how you plan to pay your mortgage.  For instance does the implication
of a apartment-mate sharing the apartment to help pay the mortgage hold any
weight. Or are the loan officers only going to look at your annual salary
and credit history only to determine how big a loan you can recieve. My basic
question is can you present a realistic scenario to a loan officer in hopes
of getting a mortgage? Because honestly, I don't see how I could receive a
mortgage for the amount than I need even though I have a good job with no credit
problems.  Is there a certain percent of annual salary that determines what
the bank thinks you can afford? 

Q4. Should I buy a condo or a co-op? I know that a condo you actually own your
space whereas a co-op you own shares in the building that represent your living
space. The way I understand it though, if a co-op is in good shape (a full
occupation of tenants, the portion of maintenance responsible for paying the
building's underlying mortgage is not too high, the tenants can afford
their apartments, etc.) a co-op is just as viable an option as a condo. Is
this true? Or am I way off base.

Q5. Do RE agents have fixer-upper's in their lists? Should I try to avoid RE
agents?

Thanks for the input

If you would like to respond directly to me you can at:

 lparisi@shearson.com

Thanks again, 
Lon Parisi
From: heycke@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (Torsten Heycke)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Sale By Owner: What Info for Buyer?
Followup-To: misc.invest.real-estate
Date: 11 Dec 1992 23:40:50 GMT
Organization: Center for Advanced Medical Informatics at Stanford
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ksl-mac-66.stanford.edu

If I were to try to sell my house by myself (with hired attorney), what
kind of info would a buyer (such as you land sharks out in netland) want to
know? I haven't read the plethora of books on "For Sale by Owner," but I
suspect that since this readership is ostensibly self-selected (you're
interested in real-estate) you might have some particularly good
insights--maybe better than the books. A whole bunch of questions come to
mind:

Would a list of "comps" collected by an owner be useful for the buyer or
would the buyer be inherently skeptical of everything that the owner had to
offer (or both; I guess they're not mutually exclusive answers)?

Would a buyer be interested in a pre-existing, independent property
assessment arranged by the buyer? Or would a buyer again be inherently
skeptical of such an assessment (if the seller hires an assessor, is the
assessor independent?)?

Relatedly, I suppose, is the question: Assuming a mutually agreed-upon
assessment of value is arrived at, should the seller then "lop" off 3% (or
more or less?) of the price in order to give the buyer credit for one-half
of the commission that didn't happen. In other words, should both buyer and
seller benefit munificently from the absence of a real estate agent/broker?
If so, what ratio is appropriate?

If the house is advertised as "sold as is" would that discourage the buyer?
Let's say that the house isn't a dump, but the buyer is tired of putting
time and money into the thing. Is it a mistake to use the "sold as is"
label?

Is there too much information you, as the seller, can provide the buyer?

What particular information would you want, as a buyer, that isn't obvious?


I will happily summarize if you would like to e-mail me, or if you want to
discuss this on the net, that's fine too (I don't know if this kind of
thing has been covered before (probably).

Torsten


"A horse may walk to water, but a pencil must be led."
From: pcs$1703@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Charles Givens R.E.
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:45:34 GMT
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University


 I was think about buying the Charles Givens Real-Estate program.  I would like
to get some opinions about his or other real-estate programs.

	Thanks.
 
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Subject: Re: REALTORS ARE WORTH EVERY PENNY AND MORE
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 17:47:18 GMT

In article <22779@drutx.ATT.COM> drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD) writes:
=Sorry, I just couldn't resist on this one.
=
=Let me tell you a true story.
=
=I live in Denver and a few years ago I owned a townhouse.
=
=To make a long story short I listed it myself (for sale by
=owner). Sold it in about 3 months.
=
=Maybe there are some good realtors out there but
=I think they are in the minority.
=
=-- Dave Burritt

Now, here we have a truly scientific mind at work. The man takes data
from one "experiment" (and not a controlled one, at that) and publishes
his rare success. I say "rare" because if it had been easy to sell that
townhouse, none of the REs out there would have turned it down.

And then he extrapolates his "data" to the entire USA (or perhaps even
th world)!

Atta boy, Dave.
From: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM (John Fox - SunExpress IR)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Negotiating a lower commission after an
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:59:57 GMT
Reply-To: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: hooksett.east.sun.com

In article 7813@pbhyb.PacBell.COM, ajcueva@pbhyb.PacBell.COM (Al Cuevas) writes:
>In article <22850@drutx.ATT.COM>, drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD) writes:
>> Has anyone out there ever tried to get a realtor to lower
>> his/her commision after an offer was submitted (below asking price)
>> on a house.
>> 
>> since I am losing 5 K on the deal it seems only fair that
>> you only get 3.5% instead of 7%. This assumes the person who
>> made the offer is not working with a different realtor.
>> 
>"SEEMS ONLY FAIR????"  
>
>Tell us DAVE... Does your employer ask you to give up 50% of your
>salary when they miss their estimated income by 5%???
>
>Al Cuevas
>Pac Bell
>510-823-1498
>


If it meant not getting any salary, like what would happen to the broker
if they sale didn't thru, I might be up to getting half. Certainly better
than none!

I'll admit half is a bit extreme to forgo, but it certainly shouldn't be
considered unreasonable for a broker to be asked to drop a couple thou off
their commission, if it means making a sale...



John



John
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Subject: Re: Negotiating a lower commission after an offer
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One
Distribution: misc
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:35:04 GMT

In article <22850@drutx.ATT.COM> drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD) writes:
=Has anyone out there ever tried to get a realtor to lower
=his/her commision after an offer was submitted (below asking price)
=on a house.

Yup. We did it on the house we bought two years ago.

=For example, let's say you had a house listed at 100K, your
=realtor found someone who made an offer of 95K.
=The realtor suggests you take the offer. You say OK, but
=since I am losing 5 K on the deal it seems only fair that
            ^^^^^^^^^^
	    bad assumption!

=you only get 3.5% instead of 7%. This assumes the person who
          ^^^^^^^^
          you lose 5% and you want the realtor to lose 50%???

Commission cuts may occur if a deal will die without them. But don't
expect to get a lot. The typical 6% commission is usually divided up
four ways, so in your example, each RE will get about $1500. You
wouldn't expect to get a cut of more than a couple of hundred dollars
from that.


Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: ajg@controls.ccd.harris.com (Arnold Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Sale By Owner: What Info for Buyer?
Followup-To: misc.invest.real-estate
Organization: Harris Controls and Compositions
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:54:16 GMT

>>>>> On 11 Dec 1992 23:40:50 GMT, heycke@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (Torsten Heycke) said:


T> Would a list of "comps" collected by an owner be useful for the buyer or
T> would the buyer be inherently skeptical of everything that the owner had to
T> offer (or both; I guess they're not mutually exclusive answers)?

I'd rather see a qualified Realtor's comps.  Better yet, a couple from
different agencies...


T> Would a buyer be interested in a pre-existing, independent property
T> assessment arranged by the buyer? Or would a buyer again be inherently
T> skeptical of such an assessment (if the seller hires an assessor, is the
T> assessor independent?)?

If you want to spend the money, and it's a certified Appraiser, why not.
But save the money, and use the comps.


T> Relatedly, I suppose, is the question: Assuming a mutually agreed-upon
T> assessment of value is arrived at, should the seller then "lop" off 3% (or
T> more or less?) of the price in order to give the buyer credit for one-half
T> of the commission that didn't happen. In other words, should both buyer and
T> seller benefit munificently from the absence of a real estate agent/broker?
T> If so, what ratio is appropriate?

No, price it right initially.

T> If the house is advertised as "sold as is" would that discourage the buyer?
T> Let's say that the house isn't a dump, but the buyer is tired of putting
T> time and money into the thing. Is it a mistake to use the "sold as is"
T> label?

It's harder to get financing that way.  Banks are leery of what they're
getting into when they finance a "sold as-is" property.


T> Is there too much information you, as the seller, can provide the buyer?

I would think, the more information, the better; but make sure you have
a summary sheet of all the features, and maybe a couple of nice glossy
pictures.

T> What particular information would you want, as a buyer, that isn't obvious?

I'd probably want all the tax information, etc etc.  If you get a printout
of a listing from a Realtor, use that as your template...

T> I will happily summarize if you would like to e-mail me, or if you want to
T> discuss this on the net, that's fine too (I don't know if this kind of
T> thing has been covered before (probably).

arnold

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arnold Goldberg                            Email:  ajg@ccd.harris.com
Phone: (407)242-5051                       Snail:  Harris Controls
Fax  : (407)242-4262                               407 John Rodes Blvd.
                                                   Melbourne, FL 32905
The opinions expressed are my own and do not in any way represent Harris 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paul@hsh.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: ***Pre-Qualify for a New home in Maryland Now!***
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:49:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: HSH Associates

In article <1992Dec16.020812.5501@umbc3.umbc.edu>, ac999155@umbc5.umbc.edu (ac999155) writes:
> Pre Qualify for a New home Now!
> 
> call David Pak/realtor
> 
> 1-800-879-6683

Perhaps you are not aware that this newsgroup is read by lots of people 
NATIONALLY, and that it makes little sense to blatantly advertise your 
service in a NATIONAL newsgroup -- unless you are willing to follow through 
on EVERY lead you get.  (Assuming you're allowed to advertise in the first 
place.)

So you wanna call me?  I'm in New Jersey.....

------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ 

Paul Havemann, VP        HSH Associates          (201) 838-3330 | 1-800-UPDATES
Internet: paul@hsh.com   Compuserve: 70410,3507  America On-Line: HSH Assoc
  ...Any opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the company...
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: rravi@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ramesh.ravi)
Subject: Re: Why is Borland downgraded?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:10:21 GMT

In article <BzEzpG.E2H@cs.uiuc.edu>, watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe) writes:
> pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel) writes:
> 
> >In article <FOX.92Dec16205734@graphics.nyu.edu> fox@cs.nyu.edu (David Fox) writes:
> >>In article <1992Dec10.210433.24151@webo.dg.com> holmes@mrx.webo.dg.com (Chris Holmes) writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>   They announced a work force reduction of 15% or 350 people, incurring a 
> >>   $35 mil restructuring charge this quarter.  Their reason?  "...a looming
> >>   price war in the software industry."
> >>
> >>But hasn't Borland software *always* been cheap?  Doesn't a price
> >>war put more pressure on Borland's competitors than on Borland?
> 
> >Turbo Pascal 1.0 came out at about $39.95 (or was it $29.95?), but now
> >their products are not cheap if not upgrading.  And if upgrading (e.g.
> >Paradox upgrade was $179) you upgrade *often*.  Their products weigh
> >in at $300-$700 range, in general (the major apps).  I think the price
> >war may be "competitive upgrades", but that's already been happening!
> 
> How good are Borland's recent products? Has anyone tried out
> Quattro Pro and compared it to Access?  What about their
> other products?
> -Larry Watanabe watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu

Quattro Pro is a spreadsheet and Access is the latest database product from
Microsoft. I don't know why you would want to compare them. But EXCEL and LOTUS
are extremely competitive products.

Ramesh Ravi
ramesh@nra0.att.com
(908)615-5082
From: avib@microsoft.com (Avi Belinsky)
Subject: My Take on "Efficient Markets"
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:30:29 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents re the "Efficient Markets"

I believe that in general, the markets are fairly efficient, taking
into account all known knowledge.  However, I do not believe that
all knowledge is reflected immediately in stock prices.  I believe
that the stock price reflects knowledge and the extent to which it
is known, and is reflected more fully as more people become aware of
the information.

Basically, information has a decaying value as it becomes more widely
known, thus the market is inefficient from the time the info breaks
until the time it is widely known.

Malkiel says that the one known group of people who can consistently
beat the market are corporate insiders.  In my opinion, this is just
evidence for the above.

As for us vs. Wall Street, they are plugged in to info far better
than we, and thus can react to news (and take advantage of inefficiencies)
better than we can.  However I think one can beat the market by having
better info, or earlier info than the street.  For example If I stood
outside a shoes store for a month and counted the number of people who 
bought shoes, I'd have info on sales before others and could profit
from that inefficiency.  Lynch talks about this approach to stock picking
(in simpler terms) in "One up on Wall Street".

Finally, I mentioned in an earlier post that there were no known
strategies that outperform the market.  I want to emphasize the word
"known".  I believe that strategies *do* exist, but if they were to be
known, their value would go to zero.  I think of this as pan-company
info, and if you know it before others do, you can profit from it.
The January effect (which probably doesn't exist any more) may be a
good exmaple.

- Avi
Newsgroups: misc.invest,misc.taxes