From: greg.ipp@rose.com (greg ipp)
Subject: Re: Rave or Techno?
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:41:45 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 01-11-93 18:36
Quoted From: laural@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (laura.l.la gassa)
> 
> The key to what Hipno House said, Greg, is that the raves' reputations are
> getting ruined.
> 
> <irresponsible use of drugs went here>

I agree fully, but my point is that you can get so worried about the 
reputation, and this an that, that you eventually can't have fun 
anymore.  There is a nice 'middle ground' here, that the original 
poster was on the opposite side of to me.  You seem to be somewhere 
between us.

> 
> I'm 100% for letting people do whatever they want -- it's just that some
> people don't know HOW to do whatever they want, and therefore get the
> rest of us in trouble.
> 
> >How can you sit around and worry about reputations and that shit?  
> 
> Because it will only take a few people to ruin it for the rest of us.  For
> the people that are discreet, and the people who are responsible for their
> actions, and for the people that weren't doing anything illegal to begin
> with.  The US is not always the land of the free when it comes to law
> enforcement by metropolitan police forces.  
> 

The idea is not to incite police interest to begin with.  Raves here, 
however, are very easily spotted.  Large crowds of E'd/X'd kids will 
be roaming around the pick-up point near the downtown core, where 
yellow school busses wait.  How can the police not notice this?  If we 
worried about what everybody thought, then the whole thing would die, 
since such meeting places would eventually be too 'open' (you can't 
really have them anyplace else -- blame it on the screwed up Toronto 
city designers).

> >[re people at clubs:] At 
> >least most of them aren't on drugs.  
> 
> You said yourself they were drinking beer/alcohol.  Therefore, they *are*
> on drugs -- and ones that don't tend to make you friendly and receptive to
> strangers and strange ideas.
> 

I realized this after I posted the message... should have included 
that alcohol is indeed a drug, albiet one with less friendly effects 
than others (this has been drilled into my head through high school, 
how could I forget?).

> >But if I want to do E, or LSD, or 
> >whatever, then in what way does this bother you?  Why do you think 
> >the reputation of raves is so integral to how people perceive you?  
> 
> [...]
>
> shit that I can't see and don't want to hear about.  Of course, if you really
> are having a bad trip I wouldn't abandon you.  I'd get you to a spot where
> you could chill a bit untill the peak wears off.

I have had two experiences like this, and I was not taken to a nice 
chill out area, and I ended up brooding in a corner of the rave for 
three hours.  That was when the people I went with (including myself) 
were inexperienced when it came to acid, or any similar psychotropic 
drugs.  When I see that, I realize that I was intially stupid, and 
inconsiderate.  Now it doesn't happen -- I like to think I have become 
more responsible.

> 
> BUT if you do anything that incites the cops to bust the rave, or further
> denigrates the rave scene in the eyes of the pandering media (and thereby
> indirectly inciting the cops to bust future raves), then I am bothered.
> I don't care how people see *ME*, I just care about the bad rep that
> raves are getting -- that this bad rep will cause their ultimate demise.
> 

I haven't, I don't, I wouldn't.  I probably care just as much as you 
about the continued success of raves.

> >don't care if you, or anybody else does or doesn't do drugs.
> 
> Neither do I, so long as everyone is (a) open-minded, (b) respectiful, and
> (c) responsible about their use/non-use.
> 
> Laura
>

rev@cibbs.uucp / greg.ipp@rose.com
Poster of highly opinionated bullshit.
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