HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sanjiva@ecrc.de (Sanjiva Prasad)
Subject: Re: Johhny
Reply-To: sanjiva@ecrc.de (Sanjiva Prasad)
Organization: European Computer-Industry Research Centre, Munich
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:22:18 GMT

In article <1jf96vINNh8c@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
I asked of Francis Muir:
>	Have you perchance been reading Norman Macrae's recent biography
>	of von Neumann (Pantheon Books, $25) reviewed last month in The
>	Economist?  If yes, do you recommend it?
>
>What did the *Economist* have 
>to say about the new Biography? Isn't JvN slightly un-PC nowadays? After
>all, its the Man not the Works, right?

They generally liked it, an opinion D McGregor concurred with in another
posting here on r.a.b.  The title of the review (kind of) asked if he was
the best of them all, and the reviewer did wax eloquent about how he didn't
exactly fit the romantic image of genius (eccentric, idealistic, impractical,
...), and that he was quite un-PC.

But then, should a good biographer care about whether the views of
his subject are currently fashionable?  One of the best biographies I've
read is Maurice Goldsmith's _Sage_ on J D Bernal, which I saw in the late
seventies, when ole Maggie's conservatism was the order of the day.



--
Sanjiva Prasad,  Guest Magus				E-mail: sanjiva@ecrc.de
European Computer Industry Research Centre		Off: +49 89 92 69 91 58
Arabellastrasse 17					Fax: +49 89 92 69 91 70
8000 Muenchen 81, Germany				Res: +49 89 16 33 59
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Asimov on SF -or- Confessions of an pulp writer
Date: 21 Jan 1993 18:10 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Virginia Ferguson writes...

>>I just dug this up.  It's from a longish essay from the venerated pen
>>of Dr. Issac Asimov entitled "Social Science Fiction."
> 
>Do you have the title of a book containing this essay?
>Thanks for any info.

+--------------------------------------SubG----------------------------------+
The place I found it is a trade paperback I got out of a dollar rack at a
local bookstore.  'S called _Science Fiction:  The Future_.  The editor
(Dick Allen) makes some comments that I found less than useful, but the
selection of stories and essays is superlative.









-SubGenius
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Martin Gardner
Date: 27 Jan 1993 00:17 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
Keywords: Gardner
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Laura Burtle

>I just finished reading a wonderful book called The Flight of Peter
>Fromm by Martin Gardner.  Does anyone know anything about the author?
>Has he written any other books?  There is no biographical information in
>the book I have.
>Laura Burtle

+-------------------------------------SubG--------------------------------+
Oh good.  I picked up a copy of the trade edition of the abovementioned
book on the basis of it being by Martin Gardner and it having a $0.98 price
tag.

Yes, he's written before.  For years and years he wrote a column called
`Mathematical Games' (Douglas Hofsteader's predecessor) and another called
`Computer Recreations' for Scientific American (he introduced the general
public to John Horton Conway's little three-rule game that devoured so many
sheets of graph paper and burned so many hours of CPU time way back when).
He's also compiled a dozen or so books on various mathematical subjects.

Dunno if a)  this is actually the same Martin Gardner or b) if he's written
any other fiction.









-SubGenius
From: aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Mystery Literature SIG now open
Date: 25 Jan 1993 12:44:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


   For those of you who are able to port into different bulletin board
systems (or if you are able to dial in), I, and my assistant sysops, have
started a SIG for those interested in the mystery genre.
   The SIG offers print and visual media reviews by users, discussion of
different types of mysteries (hardboiled, tea cozy, puzzle, locked room),
news about forthcoming books and films, advice on how to get your writing
into print, and a critique area so authors can post works for what we hope
is constructive criticism.
   We're located on the Cleveland Freenet system. From the main menu, type
"go arts" (w/o the quotes), then select #12.
   For dial-ins, the number is 216/368-3888. Enter as a visitor and follow
the directions in the previous 'graph.
-- 
Pete Nofel, aa794, primary sysop
It's a Mystery - The Mystery Literature Group
Cleveland Freenet, Cleveland Ohio
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26540 talk.politics.theory:5793
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Back to Homeschool (was: Style vs substance)
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:17:11 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <C1Bo95.H55@panix.com>, gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:
> au500@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zinn) writes:
> | >In a previous article, gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) says:
> | >au500@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zinn) writes:
> | >| One-hundred children surveyed.....top answer: NEVER
> | >
> | Gordon responds:
> | >Where?  When?
> | 
> | Back to LZ:
> | It was a joke. Levity is allowed on this group occasionally, isn't it?
> 
> Sure, but humor generally comes from an assumption.  The
> assumption is the authoritarian one that all children
> automatically hate school.  There is a contrary anarchist
> view that humans naturally desire to acquire information and
> abilities, so they would be attracted to effective
> schooling, although not necessarily to schools.

Mr. Fitch obviously has no children, and spends no time around anyone
who does.  There is an age where SOME children do acquire a desire
for information.  But more typical, is the desire to acquire a 
Nitendo, and play it for hours on end, or watch TV until all the
muscles except the channel changing ones atrophy.

Even among those children who are curious about the world, the
tendency is to learn only that which is pleasant and interesting,
and not the "boring stuff" like arithmetic and grammar -- which
are vitally important.  Even in fields which are of interest to
the child, without some structure, the tendency of most children
(and even most adults!) is to learn those parts of a field that
are most interesting only.

>  )*(    Gordon Fitch    )*(    gcf@panix.com    )*(



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: New ideas on SF -or- Confessions of an pulp reader
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:26:34 GMT

spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius):
>I appreciate your capitulation.

Sub, you wasted a lot of people's time because you were under the
impression that this discussion was something to be won or lost.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Censorship
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 04:14:50 GMT

In article <1k4lpf$sjl@agate.berkeley.edu> spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope) writes:

>Sure it's easier to get porn, because the public's
>tastes for porn, and the size of the porno market, have
>expanded.  But the *tactics* in use now -- seizures of
>entire bookstores, and stings -- were not to my knowledge in use 
>30 years ago.  It's possible for censorship to be worse but
>porn to still be more available.  I measure censorship by
>the number of items supressed, not the number that get
>through.

Porn and pseudo-obscenity prosecutions were far more common 30 years ago.
You are right that the government is using some new tactics, but for all
the publicity associated with forfeiture, it's still not *commonly* used.

Overall, it's easier to publish and distribute porn now than it was 30
years ago.

>Your remaining points are well taken.

Thanks.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.written,rec.answers,news.answers
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: For Thine is the kingdom
Date: 25 Jan 1993 01:59 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Mark Taranto writes...

>This was certainly not true when the Mass was in Latin.  I don't remember
>it being true of the English Mass, either -- though I must confess to 
>having lost interest when it became understandable.
>Mark

+------------------------------------SubG-------------------------------------+
As someone who's name elludes me has pointed out, religion's main selling
point seems to be its ability to get people to say things in languages they
don't understand.










-SubGenius
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Vietnamese folklore
Date: 22 Jan 1993 15:25:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I am looking for references for high school students on
VietNamese animism/folklore and the Tet holiday. These
should be in English, if at all possible.
  Thanks in advance.
-- 
Ted....
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Read 'em and weep: Depressing novels (was books be don't censor)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 19:24 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Lauren Crawford writes...
>_A Confederacy of Dunces_  (no wonder this guy killed himself)

+------------------------------------SubG---------------------------------+
Waitaminnit.  I remember _A Confederacy of Dunces_ as having a `happy'
ending--Ig escaping imprisonment and electroshock by his skin and his teeth
following a deus ex Myrna, Jones getting on the gravy train an havin' to
work no more for unner minimal wage, Levy taking control of his life,
Miss Trixie getting her much-needed retirement (and a bright, shiny new
set of teeth), u.w.s.  In short, the good end well and the bad end badly
(which is why we call it fiction, SubG wildly points out [and I'm sure it's
 a wild quote this time, and off-colour, even]).







Yours etc.,



SubGenius

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: akiy@siva.cs.titech.ac.jp (Akiyama Jun)
Subject: Re: Buried Treasure -or- So, whaddaya use for bookmarks?
Organization: Tokyo Institute of Tech., Dept. of Computer Science, Japan
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:13:38 GMT


(I'm in the habit of trying to unlurk into this fabulously
 overwhelmingly intellectual, confusing-yet-interesting newsgroup, so
 please bear with me ...)

(SubGenius) writes:

>  So I go down the row, picking out all the bookmarks.  When I'm done I have:

	[list of bookmarks deleted]

> Where this is leading, of course, is to an inquiry as to what, if 
> anything, anyone else has found her- or himself using to mark her or
> his place in a book (and, incidentally, to extract confessions from
> those villians that fold over the corner of the page).

Usually, I use a card from a dead deck of cards (specifically, the
queen of spades for some reason or another.  Could it be Freudian?).

I've also garnered the recycling habit of using old flash cards for
German, especially if the words on them fit the mood of the book.

No, I do not dog-ear my pages.  Yes, I glare at people who do.

--
           akiy@cs.titech.ac.jp|Amiga/Mac/IBM/NeXT/NEC (ugh)/Unix-box User   
UCLA undergrad, studying abroad|"False ideas may be refuted indeed by argument,
  Tokyo Institute of Technology| but by true ideas alone are they expelled."
    Natural Language Processing| ---John Henry Newman, _Apologia Pro Vita Sua_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Poet Laureate
Organization: The Inner Clique
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 00:09:04 GMT


sanjiva@ecrc.de (Sanjiva Prasad) writes:

> I forget now, does the US have something like a "poet laureate"?  If yes,
> who is it now?  Or does every Prez get to nominate one?

Yes.  It is a two year position, formerly called "Poetry Consultant to the
Library of Congress."  I don't know who appoints the laureate, but don't
think it is the president.  I attended some readings at The Library of
Congress in the early 80's, when Maxine Kumin was poetry consultant.

One needn't be a US citizen, as Stephen Spender has served in the role.

In the mid 80s, the title was changed to Poet Laureate.  I'm not sure who
the current Laureate is -- but Richard Wilbur was the first to have that
title.

Mark

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tsamsel@isdres.er.usgs.gov
Subject: not DON..DONT
Organization: U.S. Geological Survey
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:51:08 GMT

  Having worked
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:25994 talk.politics.soviet:10648 soc.culture.jewish:25837
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Date: 20 Jan 93 22:34:35 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1jfa2r$iv3@agate.berkeley.edu>, alpet@ocf.berkeley.edu (Alex Petrushko) writes:
> In article <1993Jan17.205437.19471@husc3.harvard.edu> zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:
# #I refer you to the well-known statistical data, that over 300 innocent
# #men and women had been executed in the U.S. over the past century.
# #For a most striking, and most uncontroversial case of a *political*
# #execution of falsely accused American anarchists, I refer you to the
# #Chicago Haymarket affair, and its tragic judicial aftermath, denounced
# #in short order as a travesty of justice by no less a pillar of law and
# #order, than Governor Altgeld and the rest of Illinois administration.
# 
#  Try Sacco and Vansetti (sp?) case -- it's even worse. They were
#  executed, if I remember correctly, in a totally fabricated trial -- a
#  product of Red Hysteria of 1920s, as well as anti-immigrant attitudes
#  of native New Yorkers. 

Hmmm.  I've read that recent ballistics tests indicate that at least
one of their guns was probably the murder weapon.  Like the Rosenbergs,
the right person may have been convicted for the wrong reasons.

# Alex.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:25942 talk.politics.soviet:10643 soc.culture.soviet:12292
From: muh@physics2 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Date: 21 Jan 1993 22:37:27 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics2.berkeley.edu

In article <C184BE.wJ@cs.columbia.edu> igor@cs.columbia.edu (Igor Pankevich) writes:
>
>Streletskaya kazn' was an execution of a division of "strel'tsy" who were
>with tsritsa Sofia together in a plot against Peter. They were executed all
>together just as they were together in a plot for a coup. 

So this execution was a justice? Would not the analog in modern times be execution
of the whole German Army after WWII? Or, say, all divisions, supported August coup?
At least officers of these divisions?

>> >you will see that it is about 25%-30% of the population. Can you find anything 
>> >similar for Peter I or Groznyi?

As I said I am not sure about numbers, but I vaguelly remember that Groznyj
destroyed Pskow and Novgorod and sort of killed everybody there.

Yury M.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: anand@Cadence.COM (Anand Bemra)
Subject: Re: Political Correctness in the Dark Ages
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:04:31 GMT

crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:


(and to India, where
>there are similar attitudes toward fleshliness), read Naguib Mahfouz's
>Cairo Trilogy.  Lots of passages about the erotic character of various
>women's "voluminous folds of flesh" and "immense rumps."

This is certainly news to me. While I admit, the standard of beauty
in India is not quite close to the reed like appearance of the models 
in the West, it is nowhere near "voluminous folds of flesh".
Although, with the appearance of MTV in indian cities, that is likely 
to change.

anand
--
Screw PBS & NPR news. Tired of news "sanitized for your protection?". Try:
misc.activism.progressive, "Lies Of Our [NY]Times", "Z" magazine (Boston).
KPFA 94.1 FM (Bay Area), 90.7 (L.A.), 90.1 (Houston, TX), 89.3 (Washington, DC)
These are my opinions, not my employer's. 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson)
Subject: Re: Buried Treasure -or- So, whaddaya use for bookmarks?
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Surrey, British Columbia, CANADA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:11:54 GMT

spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius) asks what we have stuck inside our books.

A quick check of my bookcase and piles of books on the floor reveal:

  receipt from purchasing the book

  two expired library cards

  airplane boarding pass stubs

  theatre stubs 
		 
  letter from the Canadian Consulate in Seattle

  ACM membership card

  photograph of two chidren I can't identify

  scrap of paper from an address book, containing the address, but not the
     name, of someone who live(s/d) in Piscataway NJ

  business card from a friend of my mother-in-law, with a note on the back
     asking me to keep it with me in case I run across a lead for her
     consulting business; it's dates 1990

  piece of paper which I had in graduate school containing three phone
     numbers of friends with unlisted numbers; no names, at their request;
     I recall which three friends, but not which number belongs to whom

  memo from the UofO math dept informing me that I could pick up my
     course evaluations any time before Friday noon

  floppy disk label, still on the backing

  a camelia leaf

  letter from the company I used to work for asking if I'd like to quit
     my current job and sit around being available to them to go out
     to farms to demo their product in order to earn $50 per demo

Marcy

-- 

Marcy Thompson		
  SoftQuad (West)			
    marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (preferred) or marcy@sq.com
From: daq@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Why I signed off this list
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:51:18 GMT
Organization: SPUGE
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

John McCarthy (jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: One needs not merely to be able to withstand fair criticism but also
: totally rude and ignorant attacks.  This is entirely possible.
: However, one should try to extract germs of proper criticism from
: attacks even when almost all of an attack is just rudeness.

Yeah, that is the point I was trying to make.

doug
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: burtl@ils.unc.edu (Laura G. Burtle)
Subject: Martin Gardner
Keywords: Gardner
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:44:49 GMT

I just finished reading a wonderful book called The Flight of Peter
Fromm by Martin Gardner.  Does anyone know anything about the author?
Has he written any other books?  There is no biographical information in
the book I have.

Laura Burtle



















Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: nickles@sage.cc.purdue.edu (John A. Nickles)
Subject: Re: Hare Hare?  (Re: Geometry = the mind of God.)
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:02:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan18.174011.1543@pbhyc.PacBell.COM> djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes) writes:
>In article <7HmiXB1w165w@kalki33.lakes.trenton.sc.us> system@kalki33.lakes.trenton.sc.us (Kalki Dasa) writes:
>
>>       ---------------------------------------------------------
>>      |                Don't forget to chant:                   |
>>      |                                                         |
>>      |  Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare   |
>>      |       Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare          |
>>       ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>With all the goodwill in the world and no desire to put down anyone else's
>religion, I've found you can get remarkable results by chanting:
>
>	Larry Moe Larry Moe Moe Moe Larry Larry
>	Larry Curly Larry Curly Curly Curly Larry Larry
>
>They aren't the *same* results you get by chanting the KRSNA chant, but they
>*are* remarkable.
>
>Especially if you do it in a public place.
>


Let's get this discussion back to books:

           Hare Truman Hare Truman, Truman Truman Hare Hare
            Truman Capote, Truman Capote, Truman Truman, Hare Hare

And for the Catholics in our audience:

         Harlan Elesion
         Ralph Elesion
         Harlan Elesion
 
John A. Nickles
Standard Disclaimer: Purdue had nothing to do with it.
"Lead us not into Penn Station"
From: arc2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (AMY CHARLES)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Censorship
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:17:17 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <C1Fnt4.6Fs@fc.hp.com>, daq@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
>From the discussion, I get the impression that the US typically
>uses the concept of obscenity to attack a given book.  To clarify,
>I am speaking of federal government efforts to block publication as
>opposed to local or state efforts.
>
>Is this assertion true?  Is anything book rigorously avoids
>anything of a sexual nature safe from censorship in the US?
>
>doug

Obscenity, by US Supreme Ct rule, is whatever local community standards deem
obscene.  There is some leeway for "artistic merit" but that's as indefinable
as obscenity.  Justice Potter Stewart declined to give an ironclad description
of obscenity but said, "I know it when I see it."  There are especially stiff
penalties for "pandering", or advertising your obscene stuff thru the mail to
people who didn't want it.  By the way, using the mails constitutes
publication, so careful with that next love letter.
About a year ago there was a move on to use a "least common denominator rule";
the least tolerant community sets the standard for the whole country.  Whereas
now, you can publish things in NY that you can't in Oklahoma, according to
this proposal your NY publication would be restricted by Tulsa's sensibilities.
Haven't heard anything about that in a while now.
There are other pitfalls for those whose publications are judged obscene.  If,
for example, your book was on the shelf in reach of a seven-year-old, you're
open to charges -- as is the bookstore owner -- of corruption of minors'
morals.
Very sticky stuff.

happy reading --
AMY

ps I believe the US gov't banned Trumbo's Johnny Got His Gun on military bases.
Don't know when.
>