HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: The Rahman theory and Zam
From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:15:37 +1200
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

>    There's a common English saying "To err is human".  Based on this
>spirit, I think we should give Zam a break from now on.  Undoubtedly,
>Zam made some silly comments, and used some language which is incon-
>sistent with our cultural standards.  However, that doesn't mean that
>we have to pick on him regardless.  

To err is human.  But how can anyone justify continuously using
foul language, coupled with racist statements a human error.  As
I see it, it is a an action which reflects the personality of the
person.  As the Malaysian proverb goes, "Bahasa Budi Bangsa".
(Or did you forget this after going to Singapore?).  If someone
makes a racist remark and withdrew the statement and appologised 
after I had explained to him/her that it is wrong, I will not
criticise that person anymore.  However, someone who continues to 
issue such statements regardless of what anybody says, IMHO, 
deserved to drilled.

>To name-call him
>incessantly is not fair!  Futhermore, this is a free country where
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>each individual is entitled freedom of expression.  

Right, so what's this about not being fair.  He can call others
names and others can retaliate.

>Remember one of
>Murphy's Laws:  It takes a fool to argue with another?  

Dennis's law:  It takes a bloody fool to defend another fool.

(from one fool to another :-)).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Chuah, BE (Elec)    | "One Country,  | Supporting the Malaysian 
Te Whare Wananga O Waitaha | One People." - | Hockey team for gold in 
Aotearoa.                  | Maori proverb. | Barcelona.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Pencangkul Matahari" email: chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: Cynthia Dawood <sl298028@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: testing
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 05:12:45 GMT



	Just testing your PATIENCE.....

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: To speak or not to speak (perfect BM).
From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)
Date: 11 Apr 92 17:38:05 +1200
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

In article <1992Apr10.145445.10432@oz.plymouth.edu> m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier) writes:

>>Zam, go to Indonesia.
>
>What makes you think Indonesia would want him?

They (the Indon govt.) would welcome him with open arms as he always 
say that the action of the Indonesian govt. in the Chinese cultural 
genocide should be carried out in Malaysia.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Chuah  | "Pencangkul Matahari"  email:   
EEE Canterbury|  chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz  (SUN) <- preffered
New Zealand   |  CHUAHDC@ELEC.canterbury.ac.nz         (VAX)
---------------- CHUAH-DC@opheus.elec.canterbury.ac.nz (NOVELL) ----------
(bugs+flames) > /dev/null
From: aman@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Amril Aman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist?????
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:40:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: noose.1992Apr15.214051.17742
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Apr15.173827.24853@eng.umd.edu> eduardo@eng.umd.edu (Eduardo H. Guiraud) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.053519.22366@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> aman@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Amril Aman) writes:
>>
>>Dennis, could you give a 'credible' source that documented the
>>GENOCIDE of chinese people by Indonesian Government ??????
>>Be specific, please !!  Please give us the name of books, newspapers,
>>journal etc. that you used as your source.  ... No TABLOID, OK.... 
>>Also, you might give some information where did the GENOCIDE happen
>>(the name of the place), when did it happen, and how many chinese
>>became the victims ??  I spent most of my life in Indonesia, and
>>you are the first person who told me about the incident (if it really
>>occurs).
>>Personally, I don't believe with your posting.  Nevertheless lets give
>>you a chance for an explanation before concluding that your posting 
>>merely a TRASH.  
>>Thank you.
>>
>>Amril Aman
>>aman@ecn.purdue.edu
>
>I assume that you were born after G30S-PKI; otherwise, you know what happened
>the days after G30S.  Chinese people were chased and killed because they were
>thought as PKI members, which were just excuse for the "natives and some govt"
>to kill Chinese.
>
>If you are Chinese, why don't you ask your parents what had happened to Chinese
>at that time.


If such horrible GENOCIDE really occurred, then it should have been
documented or written somewhere in the world.  So just tell us,
where could we find that "story".   Lets just talk about the fact,
only the fact !!!  Again, my question is simple: tell us your
"credible" sources, and lets us know when and where the GENOCIDE
occurred, and how many chinese became the victims.
We still wait the response from  Dennis.
Thank you.

Amril Aman
aman@ecn.purdue.edu

P.S. There is a very good article concerning "the chinese racial
problem" in Indonesia, and it was published in The Bulletin of
Concerned Asian Scholar sometimes last year.  The article presented
a very extensive historical background about this problem.
It might better for you to read this article first before making
many false accusation.
From: eduardo@eng.umd.edu (Eduardo H. Guiraud)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist ? NOT!
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:26:21 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering

Would any Indonesian Students out there say something about this matter,
genocide or racism by Indonesian govt.....
From: eduardo@eng.umd.edu (Eduardo H. Guiraud)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist?????
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:38:27 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering

In article <1992Apr15.053519.22366@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> aman@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Amril Aman) writes:
>
>Dennis, could you give a 'credible' source that documented the
>GENOCIDE of chinese people by Indonesian Government ??????
>Be specific, please !!  Please give us the name of books, newspapers,
>journal etc. that you used as your source.  ... No TABLOID, OK.... 
>Also, you might give some information where did the GENOCIDE happen
>(the name of the place), when did it happen, and how many chinese
>became the victims ??  I spent most of my life in Indonesia, and
>you are the first person who told me about the incident (if it really
>occurs).
>Personally, I don't believe with your posting.  Nevertheless lets give
>you a chance for an explanation before concluding that your posting 
>merely a TRASH.  
>Thank you.
>
>Amril Aman
>aman@ecn.purdue.edu

I assume that you were born after G30S-PKI; otherwise, you know what happened
the days after G30S.  Chinese people were chased and killed because they were
thought as PKI members, which were just excuse for the "natives and some govt"
to kill Chinese.

If you are Chinese, why don't you ask your parents what had happened to Chinese
at that time.
From: KyleHor@bnr.ca (Kyle Hor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Singapore Babies & NS ...
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:36:12 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research

In article <KYTAN.92Apr7111145@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com>, kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan) writes:
|> 
|> I didn't like NS when I was in it.  In fact, I hated every minute of it.
|> However, I've found it useful (and I was and am an "other rank") as I mentioned
|> in an earlier reply.  I was also taught to touch type as a clerk, so that
|> helped immensely when I had to type out lab reports, theses, term papers at
|> college.  I used to find it really funny when classmates used to bitch and moan
|> about how it took them an hour just to type up a ten page essay when I could do
|> it in a quarter the time (less, if I paid attention to what I was typing.)
|> Being bossed around is a fact of life, buddy.  You'll encounter that in REAL,
|> non-army life, too.  In the army, if you're canny and know the regulations
|> inside and out, you can always do something about idiots who boss you around.
|> I've even watched senior non-coms make staff-grade officers' (majors to
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> colonels) lives miserable.  BTW, brain drain is not a reason for migration,
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> brain drain is a RESULT of migration.
|>
I couldn't agree with that more.  Though not a citizen of S'pore, I'd a number
of friends who'd survived NS.  Their basic mode of operation is that if they get
screwed by their officers, they'll return the same or worse, even at the expense
of ruining their NS life.  After all NS is only a short stint compared to their
career in the business world.  The officers (the bad ones are usually regulars
somehow), however had to protect their career in the army and hence usually back
off.
   
|> --
|> ===============================================================================
|> Kok-Yong Tan, 			  | My words are my own: 
|> Fixed Income Analytics Group, 	  | My bosses know naught.
|> Merrill Lynch World Headquarters, | Wherever they're sown,
|> World Financial Center, 	  | Just I should be sought.
|> New York, NY 10281-1315.	  |		- K. Y. Tan, 5 Feb 1992
|> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> InterNet: kytan@fia.dmg.ml.com (Merrill Lynch)
|> 	  75046.256@compuserve.com (CompuServe)
|>      	  kyt@spruce.cs.columbia.edu (Columbia University)
|> America Online: lallang
|> CompuServe: 75046,256
|> ===============================================================================

...Kyle
From: hchin@fraser.sfu.ca (Hong Chin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: To Nor Aazizam -- ( was: To all you weenies.... )
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:28:53 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

In article <1992Apr6.144124.17239@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:
>
>	To all you people who are taken in by the propaganda of
>certain Western countries regarding our logging, my reply to you is:
>go fuck yourself.  Read what our Prime Minister said regarding our
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   Get a life boy! Why can't you restrain youself from using foul language.
What good do you see in using these words? We all can think for ourselves
and know which "porpoganda" to take. YOU have your own judgement and I 
have my own. Just don't f**k around when someone's judgement is different
from yours.

>controlled logging, and maybe, you will understand once and for all,
>why the whole issue has been blown out of proportion to make us
>accountable for what is essentially the developed nations' mistakes.
>Open your mind, and try seeing how some developed nations are using
>the logging issue to hide the lack of steps taken by their government
>to fight global warming.  Your ignorance and willingness to trust some
>foreign governments make me sick!!  If I were you, I would take all
>the precautionary steps not to reproduce because your children will
>turn out to be just like you -- unfaithful, and easily taken in by the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   You might as well stop reading netnews and grow up before you start net
 news again. Just take your own advise to yourself.
8-) 8-) :-) :-)
 
>propaganda of other governments.
>
>	Hopefully, the government will continue to log at the present
>rate, or increase it to show to the world that we are not affected by
>their propaganda or their pressures...
>
Think about it! The world is having a problem, every little contribution will
help to slow down the global warming problem. If every country is cutting
down trees just to catch-up ECONOMICALLY with the developed country, when do
you think the ozone layer is going to disappear? Yes! Why should we care
about what the developed country is telling us? They are the one who has created
this problem in the first place. But, shouldn't we care about the mother Earth?
The Prime Minister is right about the developed countries lack of efforts to
fight the global warming problem. They are to be blamned for all these mess.
HOw much $$$ have they contributed to fight global warming relative to their
contribution to their military force? However, is that mean that we, the
developing country should continue to destroy the environment? 
>===------ 
>NorAazizam MohdAAsif	 
>The white man made many promises to us but they never kept but one; they
>promised to take our land and they took it.
>                                                        Red Cloud


Fred Chin
    - I love my land, but I want my land to have trees like rambutan, coconut,
      palm oil, mango, langsat...etc..
From: mjabar@uop.uop.edu (Mohamed Nazlen Abdul Jabar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: STOP IT !!!!!!
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:35:15 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: University of the Pacific, Stockton, CA [138.9.200.1]

Please, please, please STOP the blamming each other. STOP fighting and
yeilling or anothing to each other. btw I an not pointing out to just
somebody, but to everybody.

Can we make a very clean discussion. Please I hate all this thing. Let
we discuss about FOOD, SPORT, Profesional discussion and some other that
are SMART .......
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Tuesday, 14 Apr 1992 21:02:24 MST
From: C. K. Ng <ASCKN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: The Rahman theory and Zam

In article <sf0vhINN311@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>, ST101019@brownvm.brown.edu says:
>
>I just realised something absolutely, totally horrifying.
>
>Remember someone mentioned the RAHMAN theory of determining the PMs of
>Malaysia?
>
>Well, now we are at the M for Mahathir, and the next one will most likely
>be A for Anwar.
>
>Do y'all realise something about the N?
>
>Zam's full name is NorAazizam........
>
>Maybe you Chinese Malaysians there had better start finding a second
>passport???
>

Dear S.C.A. readers,

    There's a common English saying "To err is human".  Based on this
spirit, I think we should give Zam a break from now on.  Undoubtedly,
Zam made some silly comments, and used some language which is incon-
sistent with our cultural standards.  However, that doesn't mean that
we have to pick on him regardless.  As far as Zam's response to my
posting on "Malaysian's next premier" goes, I personally think that
he had given a very logical and thorough discussion based on the
existing power structure and the norm of power transition within UMNO.
I said, and still say, bravo to him on this count.  To name-call him
incessantly is not fair!  Futhermore, this is a free country where
each individual is entitled freedom of expression.  Remember one of
Murphy's Laws:  It takes a fool to argue with another?  Let alone
Zam's response to my posting was absolutely insightful despite the
fact that he coined the rather interesting RAHMAN theory at the end.
I sincerely hope that whoever posted the above meant more as a tease
than anything beyond that.

Sincerely,
    **  Chee-Keong Ng, Ph.D.  **
    Without fear and partiality.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: The Malay fool? (was: malay ????????????????????????????)
From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)
Date: 7 Apr 92 03:26:19 +1200
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

In article <4523@unccvax.uncc.edu>, me00rn@unccvax.uncc.edu (ramanathan narayanan) writes:

>      did you realise that most malays are fools
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In my belief that everybody is born equal, this person must be
a fool as well.

>      that is why it is difficult for them to
>      learn another medium

Boy, it must have been hard for this chap to learn another medium, judging
from this post.

>      hope every body agrees with me

I have dug deep.  I have dug wide, but yet I cannot find a strand of hair
that agrees...

Take note Zam:  If you want to release the Malay army on this guy
you have my blessings.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Chuah  | "Pencangkul Matahari"  email:   
EEE Canterbury|  chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz  (SUN) <- preffered
New Zealand   |  CHUAHDC@ELEC.canterbury.ac.nz         (VAX)
---------------- CHUAH-DC@opheus.elec.canterbury.ac.nz (NOVELL) ----------
(bugs+flames) > /dev/null
From: Cynthia Dawood <sl298028@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: just curious..
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 05:16:37 GMT


 	Ops....before anybody 'jump' on me.... I have a correction to make.
It is supposed to be "beheaded the guilty" and not "beheaded the guilt".
You can't beheaded your guilt, can you ?. 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: c9e-al@danube.Berkeley.EDU (Chua Hak Lien)
Subject: Re: Azizam - Oppressors and the Oppressed
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 07:12:59 GMT


In article <1992Apr13.195700.29943@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:
>In article <9204131043.AA10681@nettlerash.berkeley.edu>
>LAW40001@NUSVM.NUS.SG (Tay Edward Stanley) writes: 
>
>>Azizam says that the oppressed may fight but they will not win ... I
>>will forever cherish this date: 9th August 1965.  Please do not treat
>>this as a flame for any country or any race.  Skunks like Azizam will
>>always exist ... be they Malay, Chinese, Indian, Caucasian, Negro etc
>...                                                         ^^^^^^^
>
>	You just insulted the whole African-American people with that
>remark.  While you are at it, why don't you just call them N*g&%r?
>

Zam, aren't you the guy who called someone "a geeky chink"?
I'm sure Mr Tay did not intend the word to be derogatory. You, however,
had no such qualms when you used the above quoted phrase.

All I can say is, as a Malaysian, I find your posts, flames and comments
depressing. I just hope it is not a reflection of the state of the nation
we have to share.

 Chua
*=-=-=*
*=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
	To see a World in a Grain of Sand,
	   And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
	Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand,
	   And Eternity in an hour.
				- William Blake
*=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
From: v999s3bz@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (---roach---)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: roach's plea for Zam
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:43:00 GMT
Organization: ---Roach Motel---
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <70418@ut-emx.uucp>, omega@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu () writes...
> 
>Ah, a racist profess itself by supporting another racist. The oldest
>trick in the book teaches us that if you claim you are honest and
>believe in what you do, others might forgive you even if you are
>wrong. Now I honestly think that you roach is a pile of SH*T, and 
>yes I honestly think so. You should not be offended because I'm honest.
>I honestly think that zam is a racist, but he has a cause, what is yours
>numbskull ? (yes I honestly think that you are too a bonehead, good for 
>nothing, pot shot taking pile of no good SH*T, not to mention you're
>merely a parasite, roach.)
> 
>An assertion disguise as a question does not clear yourself from being
>a racist. May be Duke is your mentor, yah ??
> 
duke is not my mentor and i  am not a racist,
but my emotions do get the better of me at times.
but duke did get some votes and that tells you how 
much outright support he gets.  what about those that
in other states that are only partially racist?  you
could almost include about 80% of all whites!
i don't defend zam's accusations, i just think it better
to treat him differently.  so the morons are people like
you and NOT Zam.
you can face reality or ignore it and face the consequences
of my wrath.....that, my friends is my cause ......roach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: A paradox?
From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)
Date: 13 Apr 92 13:07:12 +1200
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

In article <llpmJIZ@uop.uop.edu> mjabar@uop.uop.edu (Mohamed Nazlen Abdul Jabar) writes:

>From what I know, according to Malaysian Constitution, there're nobody
>above the law. Even the judge can be effected by the law. We are
>implementing the circle constitution :
>
>     +-> Law <----> Government <---> Sultans <-+          
>     |                                         |
>     +--> Judge  <--->  Citizens <-------------+
>
>So, even sultans, Prime Minister, ministers, Judge or we must follows
>the laws eventhough we create the law. The above cycle is turn around
>and around in both directions and in any orders....

Nazlen, as much as I share your optimism, we have to face realities
here.  In the constitution, the rulers are above the law.  The
rational behind it is the court and the parliment are representatives
of the King, thus, the King cannot be prosecuted in his own
courts.  The situation in Malaysia is more like;

government --> laws    The rulers
  |___ courts            |
  |___ pubilc sector     |
  |___ citizens.  <------+

>p/s : Sentiasa berdoa agar Malaysia aman, maju, sejahtera, damai selama
>- lamanya. I am proud to be Malaysia....

Amen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Chuah  | "Pencangkul Matahari"  email:   
EEE Canterbury|  chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz  (SUN) <- preffered
New Zealand   |  CHUAHDC@ELEC.canterbury.ac.nz         (VAX)
---------------- CHUAH-DC@opheus.elec.canterbury.ac.nz (NOVELL) ----------
(bugs+flames) > /dev/null
From: v134rrxt@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (V134RRXT)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: To all you weenies....
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:10:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr7.041939.13413@mont.cs.missouri.edu>, C557361@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Chang TeChi) writes...
>------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
>zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:
>:
>: 	To all you people who are taken in by the propaganda of
>: certain Western countries regarding our logging, my reply to you is:
>: go fuck yourself.
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	How to do it ??   I still couldn't figure it out. 
Hope  Nor " the big mouth " Aazizam could explain it ( as
clear as possible ). 



ps:use Bahasa Malaysia if you wish to    
	



> 
>Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! Should go and wash your mouth with soap, my boy.
>It ain't nice to talk to people on the net using such foul language.
> 
> 
>Chang