HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ludemann@quintus.com (Peter Ludemann)
Subject: Re: History of Prolog? (pointer to HOPL-II)
Organization: Quintus Corporation, Palo Alto, CA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:20:34 GMT

In article <10NOV199222091262@trentu.ca>, mbrown@trentu.ca (MARTIN A. BROWN) writes:

> 	Does anyone know of references or periodicals which describes 
> the specific circumstances responsible for the establishment of the Prolog 
> language.

You might be interested in the attached (I've left in only the
Prolog-relevant parts; the full original is in comp.lang.sigplan,
or it can be obtained from the publicity chair HOPL@CRL.DEC.COM;
the conference has some general talks plus specific talks on
the histories of Algol-68, Pascal, Concurrent Pascal, Ada, Lisp,
Prolog, FORMAC, CLU, Smalltalk, Icon, Forth, C, C++ and others).

>                The Second ACM SIGPLAN
>
>                HISTORY OF PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES CONFERENCE (HOPL-II)
>
>                Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA
>                April 20-23, 1993
>
>
> General Chair: John A.N. Lee
> Program Chair: Jean E. Sammet
>
> THURSDAY, APRIL 22
> 8:30 - 10:30am  The Evolution of Lisp
>                     Guy L. Steele, Jr. (Thinking Machines Corporation)
>                     Richard P. Gabriel (Lucid, Inc.)
>
>                 The Birth of Prolog (invited paper)
>                     Alain Colmerauer (Faculte des Sciences de Luminy)
>                     Philippe Roussel (Elsa Software)
>
> FRIDAY, APRIL 23
> 11:00am - 1:00pm
>                 Programming Languages: Does our Present Past Have a Future?
>                 (panel session)
>                     Alain Colmerauer
>                     Alan C. Kay
>                     Dennis Ritchie
>                     William A. Whitaker
>                     N. Wirth
>
> PROCEEDINGS
>
> The HOPL-II papers will be distributed in preprint form at the conference
> and as an issue of ACM SIGPLAN Notices. It is expected that a full book will
> be published as the final conference proceedings; it will contain a
> substantial amount of material gathered from the conference in addition to
> the papers.

-- 
	Peter Ludemann  +1-415-813-3800  ludemann@quintus.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
From: wiesman@cs.rulimburg.nl (Floris Wiesman)
Subject: Prolog for MS DOS
Organization: University of Limburg, Maastricht
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:38:10 GMT


I am looking for a Prolog that runs under MS DOS, and which:
1. has a good C interface (Prolog goals can be called from C);
2. clauses can be manipulated by some extern DBMS.
3. runs under Windows (this is not a must);

Although the FAQ-list mentions a lot of Prologs, it doesn't help 
on points 1. and 2.
Can anyone help me with this?

Floris Wiesman
wiesman@cs.rulimburg.nl
University of Limburg
Department of Computer Science
The Netherlands
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: rrh@draper.com (Richard R. Hildebrant)
Subject: Instance Creator and Editor
Reply-To: rrh@draper.com (Richard R. Hildebrant)
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 19:38:08 GMT

I have a need to manually create instances of classes and then specify the 
corresponding instance variables, regardless of what object class they refer 
to.  It seems to me that this would be a commonly desired function and that 
some sort of "instance editor" ought to exist.  Can anyone point me in the 
direction of such an editor?  Many thanks in advance.

Rick Hildebrant
rrh@draper.com


Richard R. Hildebrant
rrh@draper.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: cca@sscux1.ssc.gov (Charles Allen)
Subject: Re: Smalltalk V/Mac Questions
Organization: UTexas-Austin Physics
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:26:35 GMT

>>By the way, I am interested in buying Smalltalk V for the Mac, but
>>somehow I got the feeling it was not upgraded anymore. It's not
>>anymore in the mailorder houses listings.

>Prograph is the future;  ST/V is the past.

The mailorder places don't necessarily list everything they have.
Give 'em a call and ask.

Prograph is certainly more "up to date" than Smalltalk/V Mac, but it
also lacks some of the neat things that Smalltalk provides.  If you're
interested in Smalltalk rather than making Mac applications, then
Smalltalk/V Mac is quite usable.

Finally, here's a blurb from page 4 of the 11.16.92 MacWeek that
almost slipped by me:

        Digitalk Inc. of Los Angeles said a future version of its
        Smalltalk/V Mac object-oriented development environment will
        add support for DAL, DAM and OCE, as well as System 7 features
        such as QuickDraw GX, AppleScript, Apple events and QuickTime.
        Digitalk said the new version of its $199.95 product will ship
        in the secod quarter of next year.

So Digitalk is at least planning on further Smalltalk/V Mac
development.

Charles Allen        UTexas-Austin Physics        allen@uthep2.ph.utexas.edu
Xref: sparky comp.lang.smalltalk:2348 comp.sys.mac.oop.misc:31
From: cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Subject: Re: Smalltalk V/Mac Questions
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:23:29 GMT
Followup-To: comp.lang.smalltalk
Organization: Fire in the Mountain

In article <1992Nov20.153835.2802@vbohub.vbo.dec.com> caruso@gbi01.enet.dec.com (Angelo Caruso) writes:
>
>By the way, I am interested in buying Smalltalk V for the Mac, but somehow I got
>the feeling it was not upgraded anymore. It's not anymore in the mailorder
>houses listings.
>
>Is it a good package by today standards ?  What I want is basically something
>to play with and learn but I want to spend wisely that money.
>
You'll have a lot more fun with Prograph, and it is much easier to do
'real' applications.  ST/V Mac out of the box is basically a toy.  You
have to spend at least $200-300 more dollars for add-ons to get what
comes with Prograph.  

Prograph is the future;  ST/V is the past.

Andrew Cohill

...doing *real* OOP development, with Prograph--what else?
-- 
|          ...we have to look for routes of power our teachers never       
|              imagined, or were encouraged to avoid.   T. Pynchon          
|                    
|Andrew Cohill        cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu            VPI&SU                                                  
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: muhr@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Muhr)
Subject: Re: irc meeting THIS Wednesday *EVENING*
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:36:05 GMT

mjb@netcom.com (Martin Brown) writes:


>***************************
>
>ANNOUNCING
>
>Meeting of Smalltalk Users
>
>*** Please Note: new evening time for western hemisphere ***
>
>------
>
>When: Wednesday, November 4, 1992      
>
>Time: 19:00 (7pm) PST, (Pacific Standard Time, U.S.A.)  
>      ^^^^^
>     New Time!!
>
I will certainly not attend it - at 4 am! (but on this asynchronic
world we cant all be there anytime, anywhere......)
- Thomas
--
Thomas Muhr - Project ATLAS - Technical University of Berlin
voice: +49 30 314 27882  fax: ...25959  
BITNET: muhrth@db0tui11  INTERNET: muhr@cs.tu-berlin.de
Compu$erve: 100013,377
From: ebuple@ebu.ericsson.se (Per "Devva" Leander 6358)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: An open letter to Digitalk
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:20:52 GMT
Reply-To: ebuple@ebu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Business Communications, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 15477@eua.ericsson.se, konnbt@eua.ericsson.se (Niklas Bjornerstedt) writes:
>I was recently informed by a representative from Digitalk that they
>are not selling App Org anymore. Since they own the product 
>(after having bought Instansiations) this means that App Org 
>is dead.
>
>I think this is a shame since App Org is a very good product
>for code management of small Smalltalk-80 projects (larger ones 
>need Envy).
>
>It is understandable that Digitalk doesn't want to sell a product
>that is targeted for the Smalltalk-80 market. It would on the
>other hand be possible for Digitalk to do one of the following 
>things:
>
>1. Find a company that is willing to buy App Org
>
>2. Give App Org to the public domain
>
>Niklas Bjornerstedt 
>Enator Functional Systems 
>Email:nbt@funsys.se


I would very much agree with Mr Bjornerstedt in that it is really a shame that
Instanciation Inc's product Application Organizer would not be available for the
smalltalk (ST80) communinity anymore.
Application Organizer is a fairly small addition to the smalltalk environment but
has been a tremendous help in organizing your smalltalk applications sourcecode.
Also, the product itself has been very gently added to the smalltalk environment
not disturbing applicationcode and just extending existing programming tools.
Also, the implementation is a joy to look at (as always from the old tektronix based
smalltalkers) and sets good standards of how to handle smalltalk code. 

Concerning Application Organizer fututure I really hope that even for Digitalk all
dollars are green :-) or that they will give it away, either to some independet support
group, or just as public domain.

We (smalltalk programmers) are not left all alone to handle our sourcecode. Objectivity Inc
Envy is still around and is also a very good product. But Envy has a larger impact on your
work and is greater derivation from the standard ST80 environment and is probably best suited
for projects that involves more people and where you can take the initial start up cost (time).

Dont let the good programs die while there is so many bad ones out there.

P Link

BTW: If anyone wounders; I am just a happy user and not in any way connected to either of
     above mentioned companies (excluding my own stated in the header of course :-)
From: ac690@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Edward Klimas)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: ANSI ST Standard
Date: 22 Nov 1992 01:44:44 GMT
Organization: Linea Engineering Inc
Reply-To: ac690@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Edward Klimas)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, shan@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Yen-Ping Shan) says:

A lot of long overdue issues to prevent rev whip-lash on the part
of the ST user community which were deleted up to...
 
>
>           IBM has copyright of the Common Base
>      Specification for Smalltalk, and IBM will abide by
>      the ANSI copyright policy should the Common Base
>      become a standard.

	Could someone (IBM?) post the specifications for the base classes.
	If notheing else, maybe the user community could reign
	in the rogue vendors' variations from the base classes 
	as a start.

	Ed Klimas
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: peterg@netcom.com (Peter Goodall)
Subject: Re: Inference engines available?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: bell
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:28:06 GMT

chapman@bcoc0h.QE.Bell.CA (George Chapman) writes:

>You might want to try to dig up the PROLOG classes from st/v 286 and port them.
>This can't be that hard...hold on...i think the logic compiler class might be
>not avail in source...oh well as a last resort create it!
>-- 

A port of Prolog/V to /VWIN 2.0 is available on the Digitalk forum 
on compuserve.

Peter Goodall -- peterg@netcom.com
From: pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Paul Big-Ears Menon)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: PP's "Dictionary>occurencesOf:" -- Why
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:47:41 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology (RMIT)
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-XXMessage-ID: <A73112A635014015@thylacine.cs.rmit.oz.au>
X-XXDate: Thu, 19 Nov 92 17:45:10 GMT

Uh... to those who read my article before it was cancelled - OOops.  I
realised my gaffe about 20 minutes on.  The wood & trees syndrome once
again.  Thanks for the responses.

Paul Menon
pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au
Computer Science, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology,
124 La Trobe Street, Melbourne, Victoria 3001, Australia
Ph: +61 3 660 - 3209/2348	Fx: +61 3 662 1617
From: cshaver@informix.com (Craig Shaver)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Questions about creating windows
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:34:24 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Nov16.151423.7665@netcom.com> altinbay@netcom.com (John Altinbay) writes:
>
>I am trying to create windows whose contents vary depending on the
>contents of an OrderedCollection.  It may contain a number of
>different buttons, EntryFields, StaticTexts.  Further, I want 
>these windows to be able to change to a different set of subpanes -
>this operation would be the result of using one of the buttons.
>
.....

>I had trouble getting a number of EntryFields and StaticTexts to
>line up.  In this case, I had an OrderedCollection of 6 entries
>(remember this could vary).  I used do: and, in the block, asked
>for add subpanes to the top pane of my window.  This creates
>the right number of panes, but if I use framingBlock, since these
>blocks get evaluated later to determine where the panes are going
>to be, I get all the panes one on top of the other even though
>I'm using variables to specify the positions.  So for the time
>being, I used framingRatio.  Unfortunately, this makes the panes
>expand when I resize the window.
>
>Any pointers?
.............
The block used in the framingBlock will reference the variables in
the context of which they were declared.  Use a dummy type method
and have the message parms be your variables.  Set the framing block
there and it will work properly later.  (I think this is correct; 
using faulty core memory and not notes.:)  I worked on something 
similar to do dialogs on the fly based on an input file that contained
an outline of the dialog input scheme.
>
>
>
>-- 
>John Altinbay   -   altinbay@netcom.com
>===============================================================
>There's a spirit that guides me, a light that shines for me
>My life is worth the living, I don't need to see the end.

Craig ....
-- 
Craig Shaver  (cshaver@informix.com for now) (415)390-0654 (415)926-6407
Productivity Group POB 60458 Sunnyvale, CA  94088
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: mjb@netcom.com (Martin Brown)
Subject: Re: FTP sites for Smalltalk/V
Keywords: Smalltalk ftp sites?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 05:34:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.165316.11493@u.washington.edu> yjkim@stein.u.washington.edu (Yong Kim) writes:
>I am wondering if there are ftp sites for Smtalltalk. For
>other systems like GNU products, or kermit, (to name a few),
>I know there are such places.  Could any kind soul help inform
>me of such archives?
>
>-- 
>Yong J. Kim  yjkim@milton.u.washington.edu

for smalltalk see:
                     st.cs.uiuc.edu  (128.174.241.10)
or
                     cs.man.ac.uk


-- 

                                   - mjb -

                                mjb@netcom.com

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: brian.macdonald@rose.com (brian macdonald)
Subject: SmallTalk experiences
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 05:09:51 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 11-24-92 00:05
I'm interested in getting any information that any of you may have on
projects that have been run in businesses where SmallTalk has been the
programming language and the system being implemented had a
line-of-business nature to it, ie. order entry, supply management,
customer contact management, etc.

The purpose of the request is to provide some factual evidence to the
ongoing debate about whether SmallTalk is really suitable for doing what
some prehistoric managers still regard as 'real' programming.

I'd appreciate any input you can provide. You can send your comments via
email to:
                   brian.macdonald@rose.com

...thanks
---
   OLX 2.1 TD   All wiyht.  Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?
   RM 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: dave@cs.uiuc.edu (Amitabh Dave)
Subject: Question on graphics
Summary: question - dotted lines/figures
Keywords: graphics, Objectworks  4.1 
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:51:34 GMT

We're implementing a case tool as a class project using Objectworks 4.1.
Some of the icons require dotted lines(---). For example,
we need dotted rectangles. 

Though the manual discusses ways to change width and color, I haven't
found anyway of changing line styles.

Could someone tell me how to change line styles?
Thanks,
Amitabh Dave
 
~
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
From: caruso@gbi01.enet.dec.com (Angelo Caruso)
Subject: Re: Smalltalk V/Mac Questions
Summary: SmallTalk/V still good and supported ?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:32:20 GMT

In article <BxxEGI.L86@umassd.edu>, pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU (Dennis J. Wilkinson) writes...
> 
>To give some rudimentary background, we're attempting to take a CRC-Card (class,
>responsibility, and collaborator cards, that is...) and implement it in
>Smalltalk. 
> 
 .... other info deleted ...
> 
>Thanks in advance.
>----------------------------------------------------
>Dennis J. Wilkinson, II  (pnsf01dw@umassd.edu)
>University of Massachusetts Dartmouth - Design/CS Project
> 
>The opinions reflected in this post are MINE!!!! ALL MINE!!!!!

By the way, I am interested in buying Smalltalk V for the Mac, but somehow I got
the feeling it was not upgraded anymore. It's not anymore in the mailorder
houses listings.

Is it a good package by today standards ?  What I want is basically something
to play with and learn but I want to spend wisely that money.


Thanks, Angelo.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: Joachim Geidel <geidel@wior360.wiwi.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Subject: OW\ST R4.1 Patch for Pixmap class>>fromClipboardOn:
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A732D5BD10017B07@wiormac5.wiwi.uni-karlsruhe.de>
X-Xxdate: Fri, 20 Nov 92 16: 49:49 GMT
Organization: WIOR, Universitaet Karlsruhe (Germany)
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:49:25 GMT

"The code for getting a Pixmap from the clipboard in OW\ST R4.1 contains a
call to Pixmap>>handle: which does not exist any more."

'From Objectworks\Smalltalk(R), Release 4.1 of 15 April 1992 on 19
November 1992 at 4:11:11 pm'!



!Pixmap class methodsFor: 'instance creation'!

fromClipboardOn: aScreen
	"Answer a new Pixmap which is a copy of the
	platform's graphics clipboard. If platform is unable
	to comply with the request, answer an empty Pixmap."

	"ScheduledControllers activeController view graphicsContext display:
	Pixmap fromClipboard at: 0@0."

	| handle pixmap result aPoint |
	result := aScreen getPixmapFromClipboard.
	handle := result at: 1.
	aPoint := (result at: 2)@(result at: 3).
	"Pixmaps don't understand #handle:.
	Joachim Geidel, 92/11/19"
	"pixmap := super new handle: handle."
	pixmap := super new handleValue: [handle].
	pixmap changeExtent: aPoint.
	^pixmap! !
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: peterg@netcom.com (Peter Goodall)
Subject: Re: smalltalk rather than C++?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:34:36 GMT

rontelta@fwi.uva.nl (Richard Ronteltap (I87)) writes:

[...]

>Your application will be larger (Require 3MB RAM or so) than in C++, and

	As the complexity of your application approaches that of a real
	product, and if you have a good design, the Smalltalk system will
	become smaller and simpler than the C++ system.

	This is definintely not true for design-free smalltalk systems. The
	equivalent C++ system probably won't run ata all without careful
	design.

>your application will be slower than when programmed in C++. (Editor
>performance will be ok though).

	If your application becomes complex and dynamic, and you know how
	to work with Smalltalk, as distinct from against Smalltalk, you
	will find that automatic garbage collection and referential
	integrity will be a lot more efficient than the reference-counting
	system or equivalent you will need to develop for your C++ system.

	The Smalltalk system will be more likely 'type safe' than the C++
	because you wont be typecasting all the time, and won't be chasing
	invalid pointers all over the universe.


Peter Goodall -- peterg@netcom.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: tomb@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Thomas Burns)
Subject: Re: Restarting contexts in V/286
Organization: Texas Instruments Manufacturing Technology Center
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:44:46 GMT

In article <BxvsyI.CIJ@cs.uiuc.edu> hinkle@cs.uiuc.edu (Bob Hinkle) writes:

   Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: atoenne@mpi-sb.mpg.de (Andreas Toenne)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Status of st80 for OS/2
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:57:26 GMT
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut fuer Informatik, Saarbruecken

In article <1992Nov14.220250.6245@heeg.de>, georg@heeg.de (Georg Heeg) writes:
|> In article <Bxo2Do.F11@cs.uiuc.edu> droberts@cs.uiuc.edu (Donald B Roberts) writes:
|> >The title says it all. When is it going to be available. (4.1 That is).
|> >
|> Objectworks\Samlltalk Release 4.0 for OS/2 is available in Central Europe since 
|> July 1992. It is a product from our company. All customers who have bought it
|> will be upgraded to ParcPlace Objectworks\Samlltalk Release 4.1 upon
|> availibility.


Unfortunatly this software does not work with the service-pack installed
but only with 0S/2 2.0 GA. Georg Heeg will have to fix some problems with the
new 32bit graphics-engine first. The most annoying bug is a trashed color scheme.
Everything is in light or dark-gray colors and menus are solid gray. :-(

Otherwise a *very* stable product. No DDE, DLL, API, Drag&Drop, CUA'91 etc.

	Andreas

-- 

	Andreas Toenne			Voice: 	x49 681 5846272
	Max-Planck-Institut		Office:	x49 681 302 5363
	fuer Informatik			e-mail:	atoenne@mpi-sb.mpg.de

	Im Stadtwald
	6600 Saarbruecken, Germany
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: wisplan@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Shaun Abshere)
Subject: smalltalk rather than C++?
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Date: 17 NOV 92 17:05:04    


Situation: I'm embarking on a new project and would like to make use of OOPS
technology. I'm a C programmer (mostly) and have read a little about C++.
My project deadline is about 7 months from now. Is it realistic to try to learn 
Smalltalk then develop a project in this short a time, as opposed to staying 
with a syntax I know well and doing it in C++?

Next question: my project will involve some more-or-less standard menus and 
forms, but in many places I'll be prompting for free-form narratives of 
indeterminate length. I want to avoid spawning an editor because I need full 
control of storage and validation of the contents of the buffer when the 
user is done with a section of the report (the project is a report generator; 
the report is scanned by another program later using section headings which 
my program will spit out, very tight syntax). I can imagine creating a simple 
editor from something like the Borland Turbo Editor Toolbox and wiring the 
output to a specific file, and on return from the spawn i just open that file 
and read the contents, but this seems clumsy and ugly.  I DON"T want to write 
an editor from scratch. If there are editor tools available that I could use 
to creat a built-in simple editor (PgUp PgDn, Cut, Paste, maybe string 
search) and I could let the editor worry about memory management, I would be 
happy indeed. Editing text will be at the heart of the program, if SmallTalk/V
can provide a way out of this dilemma that might be the key to which language 
I choose right there.

Any ideas?

Stan Howald
howald@wisplan.uwex.edu

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk