From: pampa@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (ruben.a.mazzulla)
Subject: ## German/Italian/Dutch ..YEEES!! ##  (was: ### UK fans go..) ##
Keywords: go.away.soon
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 03:53:11 GMT


dear UKies,

i made a polite request about a subjet it has been under discussion for 
some time (making a new newsgroup) and most of you over-reacted. my truly 
and honest intention was to say -`stop talking about ..and do it!'.

some response to my request (expressed several time before by others)
has been totally irrational; now i understand why other europeans look
down on you!

below are proper replies to your attacks! (mine was an expression of
desire, not an attack) ...why do you guys take everything so personal?

r.mazzulla

ps: by the way, i'm no planning to carry this controversy ...on ...and 
    on ...and on; it isn't my style.  i'll give you mi point once more: 
    get it or ignore it (it's your choice).  

CUT HERE__________________________________________________________________

>From cbfsb!cbnews!att!linac!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pipex!unipalm!uknet!str-ccsun!str-va!cbas38 Thu Jan 21 10:46:53 EST 1993

>>(mazzulla) writes:
>> dear english (scotish/irish/ect) fans please form your own group..

>No !!!!!   Fitba' is a worldwide game and so why should the newsgroup
>be split.  I spent 3 months in America last year and I  was grateful to
>get any news I could and I'm sure there's a lot of people who feel the same.
>Take away the UK output and what would be left ?  Not a lot.  America 
>doesnt contribute much in terms to the world in terms of football, most 
>comes from Europe. 
>
>Sandy Mackinnon,                       

reply-2-sandy:
        what does america have to do with my request?   or europe?
        i said - UK fans! ..no european fans!!
        
        i really enjoy italian/german/dutch/spanish soccer and it's great
        to able to read their results and participate in discussions ..but
        who cares about british football? (you, maybe), or about your 
        ridiculous posting (i.e., comparing lineker to VAN BASTEN? (give 
        me a break!!), or when you place england 4 slots over brazil and 
        germany in those `best-10' poll? (give me a double break!!!) 
        
        in my club people PAY to watch italian calccio (via ital-cable) 
        every sunday morning; we PAID (per-view channel) to watch germany
        vs brazil ...but your football it's so untalented and mechanical 
        that we tried to swallow it a couple times but now we don't watch 
        it EVEN FOR FREE!!!!  (got that one?).  in the mind of most (non
        english) soccer fans your football doesn't count!
        
        once you get the FACT that your style is old-fashioned and lacks
        creativity then you'll be able to make progress, move forward and
        put yourselves at the same level of the good ones of europe, but
        not before.
        
        unfortunately, the last 20 years of achievements of your football
        doesn't seem to be enough data to encourage a sincere analysis of 
        your standing in the international arena.  you keep thinking that 
        anyone who says something about your football ..HATES YOU, and 
        that isn't the case (...at least mine one!).  i'm frustrated of
        having to swallow 80% of the nets traffic (and insults) dealing
        with a local tournament that vanishes as soon as the real (uefa,
        cup-of-cups, etc) games start.
        
        
>From ......sequent!muncher.sequent.com!jwk Thu Jan 21 10:48:55 EST 1993

>>one reason is the amount of messages you guys generate.  if i spend 3 
>>days out-of-contact with my system when i return i found 350+ messages 
>>out of which 80%+ belong to your neters.  and i have to spend valuable 

>This seems a somewhat "apartheid" approach...excluding the majority. 

reply:  a majority that overloads the net talking about ITSELF as "the 
        gods of football" and overlooks the fact that there are other fans
        asking them to go somewhere else to talk about gods that don't
        exist.
        
        by the same token, if you feel that because you post 80%+ of the
        news (75%+ about your ONW soccer) you own the group you're wrong;
        and since you're the absolute mayority WHY DON'T YOU PUNISH US and
        MOVE SOME OTHER PLACE to post all the stuff that the remaining 20%
        doesn't care about it?  Go ahead, deprive us of `the privilege of 
        enjoying' your posting about the mighty of the british soccer.

        and this isn't only because yours is a low quality soccer; if
        italians or germans were to take over the net talking only about
        their soccers i'd have the same comments: GO! (even when their
        posting would make more sense ..at least they have achievements to
        show to the rest).
        
>I'd be happy for a separate group personally, so as to not have whingers 
>like yourself moaning about British football all the time, and ....

reply:  then make yourself happy! 

>other "expert" commentators on the British game, who are so bored by it 
>but only contribute derogatory posts on OUR game (allo Mischa, my old 
>Dutch!) and precious little else.

reply:  hey! ..a dutch guy said your soccer is boring (...DAMN RIGHT!!)

>for our dear BELOVEDs. Football is the only true international sport
>(opps, almost forgot the baseball world series went to Canada this year:-)

reply:  baseball ????  ...i haven't watch a single baseball or american
        football game in years!!
        
        get this clear: I LOVE SOCCER.  I feel PASION for football; for 
        the real (entertaining, dynamic, talented and good) soccer, but 
        english soccer is far behind the rest of europe, (somehow you have
        managed to keep your soccer from evolving at the same pase than
        most of your neighbors).  a pitty, you used to be good!
        

        
>From cbfsb!cbnews!att!linac!uw..h9a1!passier Thu Jan 21 10:50:27 EST 1993
>|>
>|>dear english (scotish/irish/ect) fans please form your own group

> [.. lots of stuff deleted ..]

>|>hope you'll consider this request and create your group soon. it has been
>|>a lot of talk lately about this move (...but nothing happens ); just do it
  
> If you want to split the group, go through the proper News procedures,
> outline the mandate of the new group(s), how/if they will be monitored,
>Chris J. Passier        |splish...splash...splish...splash...splish....

reply-2-chris:
        i'm not the only one who wants a smaller group (it have been 
        talks about this for the last 4 and 1/2 months), NOTHING NEW! 
        (even some of your UK guys called for this no long ago!).  but
        none feels tempted to form another group mainly because there is
        no way to keep you from `jumping over the fence' and start posting
        your `stuff' again (..and ruining that one too!!!)
        
        
>From cbfsb!cbnews!att!linac!uwm.edu!cs.............21 10:52:04 EST 1993
>pampa@cbnewb.cb.att.com writes:
>-> dear english (scotish/irish/ect) fans please form your own group
>-> make things easier for the rest of us.  there's no need for splitting
>-> the existing group!!  ...just leave, the rest will be Ok!
>A wonderful bit of logic:  Please (split) the group... there's no
>need for splitting the existing group.

        reply: nothing wrong with the logic; forming your own UK group
               isn't the same as splitting the group into: results, 
               comments, discussions, etc!  don't break the good soccer 
               environment ..just go away with that `thing' you only care.
        
>there in a much less wasteful fashion.  (Indeed, from my time at Bell  
>Labs, from the audit reports I have seen, your management probably knows
>how much time you spend reading netnews.  So, if they haven't

        reply: ..and as typical bell-lab(ian) you got the ball and ran to
               make your own soap-opera!
        
               i didn't say i spend too much time reading news;i just said
               the opposite, i have few minutes weekly to read, and i'd 
               like to use them efficiently, reading about the REAL and 
               INTERESTING soccer & no waisting my time searching through 
               tons of messages regarding a local championship.
        
               (now tell me dear colleague ...did the villain killed the 
               nurse?)  :-)
        
            
>->i feel i've had enough of BELOVED SHITS, "shits-4-brains", BASTARDs and
>And here you attack the UK netters, many of whom do not display the
>sins to which you refer.

        reply: show me where i wrote ALL!
        
>So, if I may sum up your argument, all you have said is:
>"UK fans go away, I don't like you."

reply:  this isn't a matter of liking or disliking someone; this is a 
        matter of saving time in finding the results and discussion about 
        the GOOD (read: german, italian, spanish, dutch, polish) european 
        soccer. :-))))

        
>From: Dave Parry <dvp@dsbc.icl.co.uk>
>up about their team - that's part of being a football fan. We can be
>be intellectual about it, but you've got to have a laugh too, haven't
 ^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^
reply-2-dave:
        sure, as intellectual as "shits-for-brains", or BASTARD, and stuff
        like that, (...and very funny too)  :-(((
        
------------------------------------------------------------------------

ps: now please, stay away for personal attacks unless we have a chance
    to be face-2-face (that makes it more interesting); the `over-the-wire
    type of machos' ...make laugh.

    10-4 & out!