From: garyk@garyk.mentorg.com (Gary Kaminski)
Subject: Re: OOBE or just vivid imagination
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:56:53 GMT
Distribution: york
Organization: mentor
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 

In article <1992Nov18.014935.27909@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>, peterf@ariel.yorku.ca (Peter Forth) writes:
|> 
|>. . . 
|> Basically I percieve two sides to the argument:
|> 
|> 1) OOBE's are imaginary.  That is to say an OOBE consists of reordering and
|> replaying old memories in a creative, vivid, coeherant fashion.  The entire
|> experience consists of either old sensory "input" (memories), variations on that input that come from natural extrapolation and entirely new but entirely imaginary input.
|> 
|> 2) OOBE's provide a method outside the usual 5 senses to obtain new, current
|> input from ones surroundings.  Whether anything actually leaves the body is
|> debatable but really beside the point.
|> 
|> I currently support the first of the two options but would very much like to
|> be persuaded into supporting the second.  This is not however necessarily
|>. . .

I thought I would add my nickel to the discussion.

The OOBE question needs to add the different beliefs systems to the equation.
You probably believe one of the following:

  1)  Man is a SOUL, and had a BODY.

  2)  Man is a BODY that has a SOUL.

  3)  Man is a mass of flesh, bones, liquid, and electrical impulses.

I currently support the first of the three beliefs.  This makes it very easy for
me to believe that OOBE are not imagination.  A soul that has taken on human form
(I assume that is you too if you are reading this) usually forgets that he/she is
not really a human.  To really experience life consciously; pain, joy, sorrow ...,
you cannot retain conscious memory of your true self.  An OOBE is the true self
dragging around the baggage of human consciousness.  Some have less of the baggage
to tote around than others.  Enough of the religious aspect.  However, I do think 
that it is tied together.

Another reason why it is easy for me to believe that OOBE is not imaginary is
because I have read enough of others people's experiences, and I do not believe
that they have all told lies or were experiencing a kind of delusion.  (Some say
that this 3D existence is the real delusion.)

That last reason why it is eady for me to believe that OOBE is not imaginary is 
because I once woke up after just falling asleep, and found myself zooming up
a long tunnel.  It was not dream consciousness, nor imaginary.  It was as real
as sitting here typing this.  It was very frightening that first time and I ended
up falling back into my body with a jolt.

To make it even more real, on another night I woke up in the middle of the night
with my nose nearly touching the bedroom ceiling.  I was calm and relaxed that
time and I turned to look over my shoulder down at the bed.  There were two people
lying there, one was my wife and the other was ME.  Slowly my astral body drifted
down over my wife and into my body.  I blanked out for a second so did not feel the
reconnection.  It was great that time.  

Those are the only two fully conscious OOBE I can tell you about.  I have had others
that had a dream (not fully real) quality to them.  Because I was not fully conscious
I consider them more as dreams.  Now you can add me to the list of people who are
either deluded because they do not believe as you do, or you can add me to the list
of many that just experienced another part of what is truly our reality.  

Have fun with whatever works for you.

garyk