From: dave@alex.uchicago.edu (Dave Griffith)
Subject: Re: "Its all over for the political ruling class!"
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:09:54 GMT

In article <C0pBM7.8tD@dscomsa.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>In article <C0o48w.GKE@newsserver.technet.sg>, ipser@solomon.technet.sg (Ed
>Ipser) writes:
>
>|>In article <1993Jan9.052429.20161@Princeton.EDU>
>|>niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>
>|>>But Ed has proved over and over again that he couldn't care less about
>|>>this.  As long as there's capitalism, who cares what happens to people?
>|>
>|>As if double-digit economic growth were not about people?
>
>Ah so the Loonitarian rright now claim that Bush gave double digit growth? What
>in, the budget deficit?

Your raving.  No one in this discussion had previously even mentioned Bush,
Reagan, or even the US, except in passing.

>
>
>|>But, overall, thanks to over a decade of free-market reforms, reforms
>|>that the Democrats would blast as warmed-over Reaganomics, they are
>|>exeriencing DOUBLE DIGIT ECONOMIC GROWTH! In the Southern provinces of
>|>Guangdong and vicinity, it is becomming increasingly difficult to
>|>distinguish Chinese from Hong Kongese.
>
>Oh the Chineese are able to experience double digit growth converting a rural
>peasant ecconomy to an industrialized one. Stalin managed the same. 
>
>Extrapolating from the Chineese situation to claim that the West can forge ahead
>at the same rate that China is catching up is shear stupidity. 

First, China is going not just to an industrialized economy, but to an actual
market economy.

Second, no one claimed that there is _any_ economic system capable of 
sustained double digit growth in the West.

Third, a member of the European Left maintaining that someone _else_ is 
making excuses for Stalinism borders on the pathetic.

>
>
>|>There are probably more capitalists in the Chinese Communist party
>|>than in the Democratic party and certainly more belief in the ability of
>|>free markets to provide for the common good.
>
>Well it used to be the left that had a problem being appologists for communism.

Used to be!  What world are you living in?

>Now the right seem to have caught the same disease. Personaly I would be
>extreemly wary of giving over much praise unless you have accurate knowlege of
>what is really going on. We never found out that Mao had killed 30 odd million
>at the time (although a friend of mine remembers the bodies floating down the
>river to Kowloon Harbour).

No one here is fronting for communism!  China has been changing over to a 
market economy since 1981.  The last party conference basically mandated the
almost supplanting of the command economy by 1997.  China indeed remains 
politically unfree, and that's a tragedy.  But if you think China is communist
in anything but name, you're simply out of touch.  Accurate knowlege is also
simpler, nowadays.  A serious Chinese demographic movement would show up
on _satellite_, if nothing else.

-- 
Dave Griffith, Information Resources, University of Chicago,
Department of Surgery                       dave@alex.bsd.uchicago.edu
Neophytes discuss syntax. Amateurs discuss control. Professionals discuss data.
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