HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Original_To:  BITNET%"WORDS-L@UGA.BITNET"
Original_cc:  WHITERJ
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:27:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: bonus points?

From the Professor of Portigaliciousness

> That's not fair.  I want royalties.  I propose a new system whereby
> BWP bonus points can be given out (though some method to be determined
> later) for good phrases, retorts, etc.

     At the very least, if you want bonus points for coining a phrase
you should provide a detailed explanation of where the phrase came
from, what you were thinking about at the time, and why this phrase is
better suited to the concept than what we used to use.

The Ronin
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Original_To:  BITNET%"WORDS-L@UGA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 21:24:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Joan Boorstein <BOORSTEIN%UMBSKY.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Bitnet or Internet Words-L?

Frank Peters <fwp@CC.MSSTATE.EDU> in explaining the strange network problems
of late characterized himself as --

>--Fwp, boring technogeek.

Frank,
    I for one find your explanations quite useful -- glad to have you around.
Many in your position would not take the time to enlighten the masses. Thanks
again --
    Natalie and the others at MSSTATE are lucky to have you.
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:02:33 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reflections on the matter of language change

> >I meant to add The Ronin to the list of the wise at least 24 hours ago.
> >I've liked everything you've said on the topic!
>             ^^^^^^^^^^
> >   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
> LINGUISTS all over the world are embarrassed: GHETTO SLANG???????

Uh oh, gang.  This is the first time in a while we've had a big-time
picker of nits aboard.  (Note:  That is not a complaint or criticism!
I'm happy to see our new participant.  We'll just have to word things
very carefully and literally in order to avoid having to go back and
explain.

The Ronin:  I've liked the gist of everything you've said on the
topic.  By that, let me explain that I mean that I have liked your
overall points and have liked most of your examples.  I don't remember
now what you said about embarrassed linguists.  I vaguely remember
your mentioning ghetto slang and was not sure exactly how it fit in
with the point you were making.  However, your basic arguments have
been very good.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:05:00 PST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Lobstrosities Unite <CHRISS%CWU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: propositions

>Well, I'm *always* getting into trouble by ending sentences with
>propositions.

I used to get in trouble ending dates with a proposition.

Chris
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 10:37:00 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Aaron Dickey, still alive"
 <AXD7104%ACFCLUSTER.NYU.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Time Magazine
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

Evelyn--

They already changed it, effective this week's issue with the evil
anti-Clinton on the cover.  They did change the font, to another specially
designed one.  It's going to take a while to get used to; when I was
reading it, I felt like I was reading a travel magazine.

--Aaron
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:13:08 -0400
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         droby%NOVA.TCS.TUFTS.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Reflections on the matter of language change
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              16 Apr 92 05:43:03 CDT." <9204160645.aa11786@Nova.TCS.Tufts.EDU>

Says "Natalie Maynor" <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>:
>
>Galmin and Tushar were both more interesting, especially Tushar.
>   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)

Please don't refer to Tushar in the past tense.  It scares me. ;-)

Galmin was before my time (I think entirely - I saw some reference to a malign
donut, but but I don't think it was from Galmin Sound himself).

Virupaksha was wonderful, and I would welcome him back, as long as Tushar
doesn't leave.  In fact, I'm still waiting for Virupaksha's biography of
Bourbaki.

- Don R
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 10:08:00 PST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Lobstrosities Unite <CHRISS%CWU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Antiquity Roll Call: YO!

Well, I'll add my "YO". I've been on since October of 1990, but I really don't
see that as qualifying me as an old-timer of the list.

Chris
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:40:00 GMT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         WERTSJ <WERTSJ%DIALOG%MCIMAIL.COM@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      re: P.D.Q. Wagner
Comments: To: mbx <words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu>

>>...in back...with my eyes closed...Walkman on...listening to
>>   "Eine Kleine Nichtmusik" (sp? I'm at work, so I can't check, but
>>it is one of my favorites).
>>            ,
>>      Touche.
>>
>>Jill

>Jill, I got the biggest kick out of this!  What you're listening to is "Eine>
>Kleine Nachtmusik"by Motzart ("A Little Night Music" for those who don't
>translate German).  What you said was A Little Not Music.
>
>Thanks for the giggles, unintentional though it may have been.  It's one of my>
>favorite pieces, too.  We had it played at our wedding.
>
>Chris

Chris,

I'm always happy to bring a little humor to anyone...I don't know any
German, so I didn't know what either meant, but there are two.  Both
are favorites of mine - one by Mozart, and one by PDQ Bach (also
know as Professor Peter Schickele).  If you've never heard any PDQ
Bach, seek him out!  It's hilarious stuff ("PDQ was the last and
least of J.S. Bach's many children.  His work was 'recently'
discovered by Prof. Peter Schickele, who found his first PDQ Bach
work being used as a coffee strainer...") Believe me, it's great
musical parody, and the explanations of his "life" and music are
terrific.  I've never read the biography of PDQ that Schickele
wrote, has anyone else?  (That reminds me...next time I'm in the
library, I've got to look for it!)

If you've never heard any PDQ Bach, you've got a treat in store!

Jill

______________________________________________________

Jill Werts                 (wertsj%dialog@mcimail.com)
Dialog Information Services
   (...uh-oh, it's another librarian!)
______________________________________________________
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Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 06:33:01 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Oldies but goodies
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> have heard the List Angel's voice on my answering machine.  To my ear, she
> sounds less aged than I do.  That's all I meant.

This reminds me of something I meant to write yesterday (on the subject
of how people sound on the telephone).  You remember when I said during
the telephone games that only Brad and ABH sounded "normal"?  Yesterday
in my History of the English Language class I played a tape of four
different U.S. dialects (since we're up to the twentieth century now):
a New Englander, a Wisonsin, an East Kentuckyian(sp?), and an Alabamian.
Some of you have probably heard these segments -- I made the tape from
an old record that was made by NCTE a long time ago -- I think Raven
McDavid was somehow involved in making it.  Anyway, my students responded
by saying that the person from Kentucky and the person from Alabama
sounded "normal."  Somehow that struck me as funny, given my response
to Brad, ABH, and the abnormal telephoners.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:49:26 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Carol Goodson <CGOODSON%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fitting in
              8 Apr 1992 14:44:00 EDT from <AHARTFIE@DREW.DREW.EDU>

I'm a part time graduate student  (in English)...does that count, Adam?
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 13:16:29 +0200
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         torkel%SICS.SE@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      My story (and a sad one it is)
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

  Since I was so much more intelligent than my classmates, who were
content to accept whatever their teachers told them (while I put
probing questions that occurred to me in the light of my quick and
critical intellect), and furthermore was much more sensitive to the
higher things in life, I was of course mercilessly ragged and
persecuted. I consoled myself with the thought that I would, in later
life, be in a position not only to despise them (which I already did),
but to order them about, sneer at their wives and jobs, gloat and
snigger, and generally have a good time. Accordingly I aimed,
throughout my school days, at a job that carries with it an optimal
combination of prestige and money, viz. that of brain surgeon advisor
to the King, with a sideline of cosmetic surgery on manifolds
(to gain academic kudos). Unfortunately, I found as I grew older that
my early promise had been a hollow one, a candle in the wind. My
classmates were catching up with me, and it slowly dawned on me that
I was becoming a very stupid person. I felt my brow thicken and my
tastes coarsen. When I finally graduated, I quickly got myself a janitorial
job here at SICS. I sometimes think about the old school days and reflect
that they weren't so bad after all.
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:08:00 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "815 Stephen H. Karlson 753-6980"
 <TA0SHK1%NIU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      propositions and prepositions

Graham gets into trouble ending sentences with propositions.

It could be worse: there's the story of the man who went into the
tenderloin district looking for some action ... he hit on an
undercover policewoman ... his proposition ended with a sentence.

Steve Karlson

Get a good start and sail on the lifted tack.
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Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 12:37:09 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Understatement of the Year

> >I don't know about your passport, but mine has a list of countries in
> >fine print in which my passport is not valid.

Isn't the point that these countries won't allow entry with the passport,
not that the U.S. is saying you can't go to the specified country?  I just
tried to find my passport to read the fine print but then remembered that
it's in my bank box.  (It also expired last month.)  The most recent
passport I could find around here was one I got in 1978.  There's no list
of countries on it.

> to leave any country (including his own)...".  For a signatory country to
> restrict which countries its citizens can leave to go *to* would seem to make
> a mockery of this.  I can't imagine that a prohibition on visiting another

It does seem pretty odd that anyone would be prevented from going TO
another country by the country that person was leaving.  Something just
occurred to me.  When leaving the U.S. to fly to Europe, for example,
you don't go through U.S. customs upon exiting the U.S.  Or do you?  I
don't think you do.  I'm trying to visualize the international concourse
of the Atlanta airport right now but keep drawing a blank except for
getting off of the cute little train, going up the escalator, and then...
wait -- yes -- maybe there is a U.S. customs line.  Or is that a security
line?  I tend to ignore the purposes of all airport lines.  I just follow
the crowds and flash my passport when asked for it.  I do know that most
airlines won't let you on an international flight without the necessary
passport/visa for entering the country you're heading for.  But I had
always assumed that was because they don't want to get stuck with you
when you get off at the other end and aren't allowed out of the airport.

Speaking of passports and visas, I was amused at the complaints of some
U.S. citizens back during that period when France required visas for
everybody except Common Market countries and Switzerland (a next-door
neighbor).  I found that requirement perfectly reasonable.  (It was
also quite easy to get the visa.  I sent to New Orleans for the shortest
kind since I was about to go to France for a very short trip and got my
passport back by return mail with something like a three-year French
visa.)  I wonder how many U.S. citizens who complain about such things
realize what our government requires Europeans to have to visit this
country.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:08:34 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Frank Peters <fwp%CC.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: descriptivism
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

In article <WORDS-L%92040913192298@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> Mark Susskind
 <NY911179%PACEVM.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU> says:
>If grammar sounds correct to me, then it is correct grammar, right?  Why is it
>then that more than a few of my elemenatary and junior high school teachers
>deducted points for grammar on some of my written work, even though it seemed
>like correct grammar to me?

They weren't measuring the correctness of your grammar (though they may
have deluded themselves that they were).  Rather, they were measuring
the closeness of your grammar to that of the standard dialect which
they were endeavoring to teach you.

There is nothing wrong with that.  Standard dialect is a useful thing
to know in many formal settings.  But that doesn't mean that that
dialect is in any sense 'better' than other dialects in daily use
throughout the english speaking world.

>By high school, I (sort-of) learned, by repeated example, that I must submit to
>some arbitrary set of grammatical rules in order for people to understand me.

The set of grammatical rules to which you must submit in order to be
understood is considerably lest restrictive than the set of grammatical
defining what people commonly call 'correct' english.

It is this looser set of necessary rules which Natalie is maintaining
are learned by most children as a natural part of growing up.

I know that I had little trouble understanding and being understood by
other english speakers before I ever got around to learning any formal
grammar rules.  Admittedly, there were words with which I was not
familiar.  But that is vocabulary, not grammar.

>Should there not be a prescriptive basis to fall back on if there are two or
>more native speakers of English, potentially from different regions, and,
>possibly, with a diverse range of dialects?

Why?  Why can't you both be right?

If they are each speaking their native language and cannot communicate
then they are speaking different languages (perhaps recently diverged
variants of the same language).  The fact that each calls his/her
language english is irrelevant.

If they are each speaking their native language and can communicate but
use different sets of grammatical conventions (different, but not so
different that they hinder communication) then they are speaking
different dialects...and each dialect is 'correct' for the person using
it.

--Fwp, a technogeek who knows doodly squat about linguistics, economics
       or anything else that doesn't come with keyboard attached.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:19:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Goodbye

Relateth      "Natalie Maynor" <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

> friend who told me that said that she was surprised to see how much more
> eagerly and easily her typical freshmen in non-technical majors take
> to e-mail than her upper-level Engineering majors.

     I wonder how well upper-level non-technicals would take to the
introduction.  Also, as explanation not as an excuse, an awful lot of
an engineer's education is to learn 'the accepted way' of doing
things.  Since these students have apparently been getting by without
e-mail throught the first two or three years, throwing a new way to do
things at them at this point isn't cricket.

     As another point of information, I know Metro students who take
courses that use the computer one at a time to spread out their e-mail
access.  It is addictive to be able to communicate with one's friends.
(Note: Since Metro is an urban campus with no student housing, it can
be quite difficult for students to form groups.  The e-mail helps in
the communications of people who work different hours, have family
responsibilities, and other such.)  There is a proposal to let all of
the students who have declared a major to have accounts.  Further,
these accounts would continue to exist between semesters and qould be
in addition to the class accounts.  All it needs is money for the
equipment (more disk space and a lot more phone lines, 21 modems for a
potential 9,000 users won't make it) and the time for the systems
people to design and test the system.  I doubt I will get to see it,
but I can dream.  (I also did a preliminary design on how to implement
it.  Will be interesting to see whose design gets used.)

The Ronin
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Organization: Computing Center, Mississippi State University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 09:21:34 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Frank Peters <fwp%CC.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: TV
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

In article <1992Apr10.074143.15028@robobar.co.uk> gtoal@robobar.co.uk (Graham
 Toal) says:
>In article <9204090330.AA13814@Ra.MsState.Edu>
 maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU (Natalie Maynor) writes:
>:> ..not to mention the horoscopes.:-)
>:
>:Horoscopes in TV Guide??  I must admit that I do like horoscopes.  Mine
>:for today has some uncannily accurate stuff.
>:   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
>
>
>How depressing.  How can I take your authorative information on
>linguistics seriously now?  You couldn't have burst my bubble
>worse if you'd suddenly started spelling 'tonight' as 'tonite'...

I find that I can enjoy hearing my horoscope without actually
believing that the thing has any relevance.

In fact, it is an amusing exercise in semantics to observe the
techniques used to make the predictions vague enough to cover
a wide variety of actual outcomes.  Not thesis material certainly,
but kinda fun.

--
Frank Peters  -  UNIX Systems Programmer  -  Mississippi State University
Internet: fwp@CC.MsState.Edu  -  Phone: (601)325-7030  -  FAX: (601)325-8921
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Prolog:     University Computing Services/Student Data Systems
X-Prolog:     University of South Florida
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:22:54 GMT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Comments:     Converted from OfficeVision to RFC822 by PUMP V2.2X
From:         "Don Moore (813) 974-4078 S/C 574-4078"
 <DBFABAK%CFRVM.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Multiple sclerosis, from Gayle McKay

Thank you Gayle for that beautiful letter.  As I related to Dan, I had
personal reasons for supporting Dan - I am happy to have had a small part.

And I most sincerely wish you the best in your future.

                            Peace,
                                  Don
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 09:15:35 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Evelyn <R3EJD%AKRONVM.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gleanings

Re:  Ultra Slim-Fast
  Granted, it doesn't exactly taste like a delicious milkshake, but it
does taste good.  But, I agree about the omelet.

Evelyn
From: gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN
Date: 10 Apr 92 08:44:46 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <WORDS-L%92040920432795@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU (The Ronin) writes:
:Sayeth        Lobstrosities Unite <CHRISS@CWU.BITNET>
:
:>                           But they both are rare redundancies and would not
:> ever apply to words incorporated into English today.
:
:     Be careful how you use 'rare'.  Do you mean 'rare', as in few of
:the 600,000 (or whatever number the current 'correct' one) words of
:English, or do you mean 'rare', as in seldom used.  Stop and think

Probably 'rare' as in the Scots sense of 'fine and wonderful'.

G
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:28:34 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Rita Marie Rouvalis <rita%EFF.ORG@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reading to each other
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
              92 10:48 pm

> >
> > Our next project is reading _Don Quixote_ together in the original.
> > Rita
>
> In Spanish??  Wow!

	It really isn't as impressive as it sounds.  Nico was born
in Madrid, and I had 5 years of Spanish in high school...

Rita
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Original_cc:  WHITERJ
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:15:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Tarmac rugrats

Sayeth        Nancy Harwood <harwood@TENET.EDU>

| >      These were some of the reasons my mother gave when confronted at
| > the time.  Comparing notes with my sister, however, it would seem that
| > my mother was trying to live vicariously through us.
|
| Sadly enough, I see this all too frequently.  Makes me want to scream at
| these people to go and get lives of their own...*not* a wise practice
| for public school teachers.  All I can do is hug the kids and try to
| help make up for the approval they're not getting at home.

     And this too can become a boomerang for the parents.  Sadly, my
mother was never 'good enough' to be acceptable to me, either.
Something else to work on.

The Ronin
From: gtoal@robobar.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Update on Pre-Clam Slam
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:46:40 GMT
Organization: Robobar Ltd., Perivale, Middx., ENGLAND.

I hope I've got the timing right - I've just opened a pint to join you!

G
-- 
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