HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: keshava@is.morgan.com (Sanjay Keshava)
Subject: Re: are there still prejudices?
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:51:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.174715.29166@menudo.uh.edu> murthy@tree.egr.uh.edu (purna) writes:

... stuff deleted...
   now, before people start blasting away, let me finish.  i have
   noticed (though, this may just be my perception) that many indians
   (mainly the "older" generation; like my parents) form
   "sub-cultures".  what i'm trying to say (not very well, mind you)
   is that people of karnataka (FOR EXAMPLE) tend to meet, congregate,
   stick it out, etc. with other people from karnataka.  not that it's
   altogether bad thing, but it's usually to such an extent that they
   ignore other indians (punjabis, FOR EXAMPLE).

   is this prejudice?  i don't know.  maybe.

... stuff deleted...
   peace,
   -purna


First of all, can you please set your terminal for auto-line-break?
It's dizzying to read a posting without carriage returns at the end of
each line.

I went to highschool in Cerritos (suburb of LA) and had several
Gujurati and Punjabi classmates.  In all there were about 15 of us.
In general it seems that divisions form when a subgroup of people
cloak their conversations in their native language.  I think all of us
felt like a group as long as we spoke English around each other.  But
when a few spoke in Punjabi or Gujarati an invisible wall formed.

I don't think it's prejudice, just inconsiderate.  And if anything, it
is not assimilation rather the opposite.
--

Later...

Sanjay Keshava          keshava@is.morgan.com
    ->|<-           ...uunet!is.morgan.com!keshava
    Morgan Stanley & Co., Inc., Equities Analytical Research, NYC
  Greetings to alumni: Anteater ('84), Trojan ('87), Longhorn ('91)
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: An Indian-American Legislator
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:14:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T


Here are some excerpts from the magazine called the INDIAN-AMERICAN:
(Author: Ludwina Joseph)
********************************************************************

"Kumar Barve, is an INdian-American legislator from the 17th district
of Maryland's Montgomery County (A suburb of Washington D.C.). 

Barve is the first person of Indian origin to be elected as a state
legislator. He is considered energetic, accessible and extremely
articulate. He is 33 years old.

Barve was born in the UNited States. His ancestry is Maharashtrian
Indian. But that is as far as the INdian infuence goes. He thinks, 
feels, and talks American. He did not have to break out of any 
cultural or ethnic molds to get to where he is. This probably made it 
easier for him to sail into mainstream American politics and not just
touch the fringes - which is what a lot of Indian-Americans, who have
arrived in the U.S. during the last 30 years, seem to be content doing.

Barve is second generation Indian-American."

......


********************************************************************

Can we discuss this aspect of 'breaking cultural and ethnic molds' ?


Alok
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
From: pandit@iwarp.intel.com (Milind Pandit)
Subject: Re: Immigrants Getting Jobs
Organization: Intel iWarp, Beaverton, Oregon, USA
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 18:18:06 GMT

In article <15725@durer.cme.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira) writes:
>I might be stirring up some trouble here, but I'll probably enjoy it
>anyway. 
>With all of the foreign students coming here, I always wondered how
>they found employment. And not only employment, but got a Green Card,
>etc. I'm an engineer, a U.S. citizen by birth BTW, and I had some
>difficulty finding a job with an MS degree.  I also have a number
>of buddies, also US citizens, who don't have anyone knocking at their
>doors. 

When something is a matter of survival (as getting a job is, for many
immigrants) you tend to be good at it.  The same attitude of looking
down on non-engineering/medicine/business professions, that you
observed in a previous posting, probably motivates them.

>Apparently the company who is sponsoring him must advertise his position
>for a certain period of time before they can apply for the gc for him.
>Well, guess who's receiving all the resumes. The dude himself! Guess where
>those prospective resumes end up!

This sounds impossible to me.  If he is in a position, how can the
company continue to advertise it?  How can he be getting the resumes
when some one else got his?

>To me as a citizen this issue is of grave importance. Frankly, this practice
>is unethical and should be stopped immediately. I wonder and sort of 
>assume that similar practices are pretty widespread. 

*If* what you said is really true, it must be stopped.  Not because an
immigrant got the job, but because that particular company's practice
is misleading and unfair.  If a company *is* willing to sponsor
immigrants, and the first qualified applicant happens to be a
highly-motivated immigrant, I don't see why the company should waste
more time looking for non-immigrants.

A friend of mine is in medical school, and has what I think is a more
valid complaint.  He points out that in America, MD's are given only
after many years of rigorous and highly demanding education, whereas
in India, an MD can be gotten with relative ease.  On the other hand,
Indians with MDs from India can begin practicing in the US or continue
their education here after taking a couple of aptitude tests.

The point is that the net result is unfair:  Far greater demands are
placed on American medical students before they are allowed to
practice, than are placed on Indian immigrants.

I guess the only way to remedy this injustice is to lobby for laws
that state more strict and specific requirements for everyone who wishes
to practice medicine in the US.
--
|  Milind S. Pandit                           |  Standard disclaimers apply.  |
|  pandit@iwarp.intel.com                     |-------------------------------|
|  Operating Systems Engineer, iWarp Program  |   Who knows what evil lurks   |
|  Intel Corp., Beaverton, OR                 |     in the hearts of men?     |
From: trinas@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (trina)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: accent? what accent?
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:59:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44597
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

Pravin Devineni Ratnam writes, sickly enough (even I thought he couldnt get
sicker than this):

>MAybe, alok offered to show Trina that he can sell his sperm to a sperm
>bank and perform the task in front of her without the help of any gay
>magazines. The other option would be to have sex with Trina which is too
>hideous of a thought. Even a prostitute would reject Alok.


Oh, man, cant we keep these disgusting thoughts, at least ones with
regard to me, off the net...I'd really appreciate it.  I already have
the flu, I dont need to get sick again. Thanks.

Trina
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: HUman Rights in INdia (Re: Oh, ...
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:07:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <54990003@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, nrangan@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (N. Ranganathan - Contractor) writes:
> 
> alok writes:
> 
> >Yes, lately I have felt ashamed of being from INdia, with all these
> >human rights violations and suppression going on there.
> 
> 
> I guess one should do something about it rather than making a noise
> and fuss about it. 

What do you think I did ? First one needs to point out the problem.
And that is what I did in my post.

> If you feel sorry about human rights violations,
> then why don't you take up the cause and fight for the rights which 
> are being violated.

See above.
> 
> >No, but I certainly am very disapointed with lack of pragmatism and vision.
> >It is as if people are very content with outdated traditions and culture.
> >They are so content that even after coming to USA, they are imposing them
> >on their children. They are making them an alien in this land. They
> >are violating the human rights of their very own children. It is 
> >disgusting.
> 
> By not allowing the parents in raising the kids the way they want 
> don't you think one is infringing upon the parental rights of a person ?

Well there is a fine balance betwen the rights of parents in raising their
children and the rights of the children to pursue their own lives
as they would like to. It is a very debatable issue where that boundary is. 

The reason I raised this issue is because I witnessed several families 
with such problems here. ALSO A NUMBER OF TV SHOWS WHICH WERE CASTED
OVER LAST TWO YEARS INDICATED THIS PROBLEM IN INDIAN-AMERICAN
FAMILIES. One sees articles in newspapers, TV documentaries etc. which
also suggest that there is a problem in this arena.

> 
> Ranga

Alok
From: venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: PLEASE STOP IT
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:59:32 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In <1992Apr10.213811.20397@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com
(alok.vijayvargia) writes: 

>> How is the above
>> underlined statement harassment of you?  

>Because you REPEATED the whole atrocious stuff posted by PRAVIN.

>It was not your one line statement about thought police that bothered me.
>It was your repeatition of Pravin's atrocious stuff in your reply.
>It was quite unnecessary. By repeating it, you recklessly or intentionally 
>(I hope not) emphasized Pravin's atrocity.

But how was it harassment of *you*, Alok? 
-- 
Venu Nayar			|		Internet: venu@cirrus.com
Cirrus Logic Inc.		|		(510)-226-2100 X3737
Yield to Temptation ... it may not pass your way again.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
From: gchacko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (George W Chacko)
Subject: Re: Help ..... save soc.culture.indian.american
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 02:54:21 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.004928.13823@cbfsb.cb.att.com> sidnag@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (siddhartha.nag) writes:

>Oh ! slide me a break.. At the risk of getting personal, let me
>just say this that, you are the biggest whiner scia readers have      
>experienced.
>Also, let me say this that regardless of what you feel, this group
>is here to stay, and I will choose to "productively contribute"
>to it when I decide to.
>And also don't bother to flame back, 'cos I'm tired of this thread.

You're determined to make a fool of yourself aren't you?

George
From: JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: update1 -- straw poll: Alok bozo or not?
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:39:45 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center



 The following article was posted in news.groups; it's hilarious:



In article <4122@crl.LABS.TEK.COM>, scott@ferrari.LABS.TEK.COM (Scott
Huddleston) says:
>
>42 responses so far.  Alok, I have 42 clues for you.  You're being a bozo.
>You're making quite a Usenet Olympics entry, but you're not helping either
>yourself or the SCIA cause.  Please, give it a rest.
>
>For the record, we're voting on the question, "Is Alok a bozo or not?".
>In particular, should the following important choice, which Alok omitted
>from his most recent straw poll, have been included in his straw poll:
>
>>3.  Alok is a bozo who has destroyed whatever credibility he might once
>>have had, and his continued involvement in SCIA group matters is useless
>>at best, and counterproductive at worst.  If he had a clue he'd desist
>>and keep quiet, but he has turned down many offers of a clue.
>
>Send votes to
>   bozo-yes@ferrari.labs.tek.com
>or
>   bozo-no@ferrari.labs.tek.com
>
>Thanks to all participants.  A selection of the responses so far
>gives additional insight:
>
>-----
>I checked in my dictionary under "bozo" and there was Alok's name & picture.
>-----
>The man has no credibility and no idea of how ridiculous he looks.
>He's pathetic.  If this vote will get him to stop, I'll have done
>my good deed for the day.
>-----
>Subject:  Hope you are serious!
>-----
>Now here's a poll I can happily take part in.  :-)  I bet it gets more votes
>than Alok's does, too.
>-----
>I vote Alok is a megabozo.
>-----
>>"Is Alok a bozo or not?"
>
>ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY YES!!!!!!!!
>     Actually, kibo would better be able to classify him in his "happynet"
>idea, alt.megabozo.alok deserves to be created.
>-----
>Subject: bozo ( should be clueless bozo )
>-----
>I wasn't involved in this whole mess, but I have been following it. I don't
>know if you were joking or not, but Alok is such a twerp, I figured I'd
>send this just in case it is for real.
>-----
>YES, YES, YES!! ALOK IS A BOZO.
>-----
>Subject: Who'd vote no?
>  This is the most meaningful vote I've participated in on USENET.
>-----
>Yes, Alok is a bozo.  I voted yes for the revote, but that does not mean
>that I think it will pass.  I say, Let the peoples voice be heard.
>-----
>Of course he is.
>-----
>Mega-bozo.
>
>--
>Scott Huddleston
>scott@crl.labs.tek.com
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian.american:1670 soc.culture.indian:13527
From: JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA (A violation of net guidelines)
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:09:36 GMT
 <1992Apr2.001613.6087@spatial.com>
 <1992Apr3.161354.4882@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
 <1992Apr6.203727.26072@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> <CKD.92Apr6184721@loiosh.eff.org>
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center


The following post is being forwarded from news.groups for the
benefit of those that may have missed it:

............Forwarded Article...............................................

In article <CKD.92Apr6184721@loiosh.eff.org>, ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
says:
>
> Alok> == alok.vijayvargia  <alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
>
> Alok> While I maintain that the initial reasons for taking it off the
> Alok> official list were the problems associated with its name, I would
> Alok> also like to point out that whatever the reasons for earlier SCIA
> Alok> group to be not official, the current RFD is a clear VIOLATION of
> Alok> the net guidelines.
>
>This is incorrect; in the case of an invalidated vote, a revote is *not*
>contraSpafual.  The precedent was set quite effectively after the first
>rec.arts.sf-lovers reorganization vote...
>
>The more you scream, whine, and flame about this, the better I feel
>about having a revote.  And don't get into me about being "against" you
>or "your" group or anything; I don't particularly care about you, the
>newsgroup, or your flamage.  I do care about having a reasonably useful
>group creation procedure, and every instance of vote-taker misbehavior,
>either real or perceived, weakens that procedure.
>--
>Christopher Davis <ckd@eff.org> |    ECONOMIC OBSERVATIONS DEPARTMENT
>System Manager & Postmaster     |  "There's always something going out of
>Electronic Frontier Foundation  |      business in Central Square."
>+1 617 864 0665  NIC: [CKD1]    |   -Rita Marie Rouvalis <rita@eff.org>
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian.american:1781 soc.culture.indian:14475
From: kumar@duck.ncsc.org (Ashwini Kumar [Gupta])
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Multiple Entry H-1 visa from Delhi ?
Keywords: H-1
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:26:32 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian.american
Organization: North Carolina Supercomputing Center


Is it easy to get H-1 multiple entry visa from India ?  One of
my friends came on J-1 and then converted to H-1 last year.
Recently he got another job and wants to go home before joining
this job.  His H-1 has been approved and the company lawyer says
he should go to Delhi and get multiple entry there.

He is worried...changing from J-1 to H-1 and then now changing
a job..and visiting India before joining this new job...

Any advice ???

Replies to : kumar@duck.ncsc.org  (or reply option)

thanks

ashwini


--
ashwini kumar				(919) 515-3672 or 3604 (work)  
post doc in food engineering		      851-5829 (sleepy voice)    
north carolina state university               kumar@ncsc.org
raleigh, nc 27695-7624
From: trinas@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (trina)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Sid, sid, sid...chill out!
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:23:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44443
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

siddhartha writes so angrily that he's turning red:

>Oh ! slide me a break.. At the risk of getting personal, let me
>just say this that, you are the biggest whiner scia readers have      
>experienced.

Let me just add to that opinion of yours, (and be it your right
to have it, too), that I have never whined on this group. It
is incorrect to say so (my right to have my opinion, of course).
Yes, I disagree with this group.  I first voted for this
group (against it, I should say).  Once the group was
implemented, I did go along with the fact that it was here,
and I still do.  Preferably, I would like to see it merge with
SCI, but IF THE VOTERS SEE FIT TO KEEP THIS GROUP, I WILL DO
MY BEST TO KEEP UP WITH DISCUSSIONS ON BOTH GROUPS, SCI and SCIA.
You have never seen me complain about anyone except people who see
fit to TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO.  If you dont like something and dont
care to join in, mind your own god damn business if it isnt hurting
you!  I only voiced my opinion loudly and harshly (and proudly, I
might add) when I GOT HARASSMENTS and THREATS from EVERYONE KNOWS
WHO about my opinions.  Capiche?

>Also, let me say this that regardless of what you feel, this group
>is here to stay, and I will choose to "productively contribute"
>to it when I decide to.

Hypocrite, is all I have to say.  Choose to, when you want to, that's
fine with me, but then quit telling people what to do.

>And also don't bother to flame back, 'cos I'm tired of this thread.

JUST DID!!!!!!  PSYCHE!!!!!!!!!  

>I thought I clearly told Trina not to bother to flame back. ....
>And that applies to her/his cronies too. Get a hint !
                     ^^^^^^^
              having a slight problem with my sexuality, are you?

A bit hypocritcal for you to answer considering your statement above, no?

Trina
From: kannan@ardor.enet.dec.com (Nari Kannan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: Indian Materialism
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:33:11 GMT
Reply-To: kannan@ardor.enet.dec.com (Nari Kannan)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Reading various entries in this newsgroup, I am 
struck by the gap that exists between IA's and 
their II parents or relatives. This issue is a critical one
and needs some empathy on both sides to understand
the underlying issues and come to a resolution.  

One has to comprehend the odds against anyone making 
anything of themselves in India as it is in many other 
developing countries.  The bottom line in India is that
the unemployment rate is so high that the main goal of
the breadwinner in any family is to "keep" their job
and put food on the table.  The only occupations that
enable anybody to do this are that of engineers or doctors
or for the more adventurous ones - politics  :-).  Given
other brain-dead policies such as reservations, for a 
middle-class person to make it,  anything other than stellar
performance in high-school will not guarantee you anything
in life.  Also, the economies are so inflationary that unless you
put a substantial amount of savings in the form of Gold or Silver
you cannot maintain the quality of life you enjoy today.

In such circumstances,  I think satisfaction derived from work
is way down in your hierarchy of needs ( Food first, shelter second,
Job security third and satisfaction in what you do comes  last).
It's not surprising that II's find the medical profession a gold
mine and it doesn't' occur to them that *YOU COULD BE HAPPY*
doing other things.

This, I Guess is the reason for the real or perceived materialism
among II's.  This becomes so ingrained in your psyche that
it's difficult to get rid of, once you board a flight to the U.S.
II's still measure themselves with yardsticks that they used
in India. This is no excuse for resulting behavior, but just some windows
into the II mindset, so that you need not be unduly offended.

II's for their part have to realize that they're in another society
and the rules are different.

Nari
From: sidnag@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (siddhartha.nag)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: Help ..... save soc.culture.indian.american
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:29:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Red Hill, NJ

In article <1992Apr8.025421.18009@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> gchacko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (George W Chacko) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.004928.13823@cbfsb.cb.att.com> sidnag@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (siddhartha.nag) writes:
>
>>Oh ! slide me a break.. At the risk of getting personal, let me
>>just say this that, you are the biggest whiner scia readers have      
>>experienced.
>>Also, let me say this that regardless of what you feel, this group
>>is here to stay, and I will choose to "productively contribute"
>>to it when I decide to.
>>And also don't bother to flame back, 'cos I'm tired of this thread.
>
>You're determined to make a fool of yourself aren't you?
>
>George
>
I thought I clearly told Trina not to bother to flame back. ....
And that applies to her/his cronies too. Get a hint !

Sid
From: sbellam@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (susmitha.k.bellam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: are there still prejudices?
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:38:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbfsb.1992Apr16.133833.24760
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Apr15.174715.29166@menudo.uh.edu> murthy@tree.egr.uh.edu (purna) writes:
>hi all!

Hi Purna!

>are INDIANS (asian), raised in the US, still  
>prejudiced against OTHER indians (also, asian)?
>now, before people start blasting away, let me finish.  i have noticed (though,  
>this may just be my perception) that many indians (mainly the "older"  
>generation; like my parents) form "sub-cultures".  

Yes, I know what you mean.  In most cases I would attribute this 
type of "clumping" to factors other than prejudice.  People like my
parents share the same language, culture, and religious practices,
and probably grew up in the same area and went to the same schools 
as other people from their home state in India.  It's nice for them 
to associate with people who have had similar experiences.  


>does this carry over into their children?  i don't think so, but i haven't  
>encountered enough "indian-americans" to make this claim globally.
>is this part of the assimilation process?  hmmmmm.....could be.....
>what do you think?  is this a problem?
>inquiring minds want to know :)


From my limited experiences, this doesn't carry over to the next
generation because the factors that I listed above don't apply to the
subculture anymore.  Of course some second generation indian americans 
are more familiar with their parents' language, etc., and might be more
inclined to seek out people who speak that language, etc.  But in
general, I don't think subculture is an issue for most.  I'm not sure 
if it is part of the assimilation process.  Some immigrant communities 
from the last century (Irish and Italian for example) remain very close
knit, while others have not.  I think it's mostly a matter of personal
choice and numbers.  If there aren't enough people who choose to sustain
the community in the next generation, there ceases to be a need for it.  
Just my $.02.

>just trying to increase the signal-to-noise ratio..........
hope it works!

Susmitha 
From: nrangan@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (N. Ranganathan - Contractor)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:34:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Oh, ALok...gimme a break.
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server