From: hakim@bigq.enet.dec.com (Kamran Hakim)
Subject: Re: Reply to  Bahaies  gang
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 23:03:29 GMT


Continuation of part 1:

SM>I asked a question to which the answer is "yes" or "no".

KH> "O Son of Spirit! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and
KH>  radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imprishable
KH>  and everlasting."	[Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words #1]

SM>  "O Father of Spirit! My first counsel is this: Be sincere and truthful.
SM>   This is the first thing that a prophet or Imam should be. 

Yes.

SM>How do you expect me to believe Mohammad (s) if he lied even once? 

I do not.

SM>How do you
SM>   expect me to believe the man who calls himself Bab, claims that he is
                   ^^^^^^^
SM>   a messenger of Mahdi(a), then changes his claim to Mahdi(a) himself,
SM>   is defeated in argument, cannot fulfill the specification of Mahdi(a)
SM>   according to Shi'a (Which he claims to believe in), and is executed?"

I do NOT expect you to believe Seyyed. I just expect you to be fair and 
display justice in your judgment. Since I expect from you such a thing, 
please allow me to offer what I mean by fairness:

"O Son of Spirit! The best beloved of all things in My sight is justice;
turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I
may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not
through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not
through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it
behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and a sign of My
loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes."
			[Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words #2]

This idea is not that far from the Qur'anic verses highlighting the
lack of people's fairness in their judgment as: "Hearts have they,
with which they understand not, and eyes have they with which they
see not." [7:178]. 

SM>   We believe that Mahdi (a) will come and WILL restore the true Islam.
SM>   We believe that he will raise from Mecca (and not from Shiraz), and he
SM>   will establish justice throughout the whole world, not just by giving
SM>   advice, but by the "force of sword" against oppressors.
			 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Please consider the following in light of your expectations:

"When Christ appeared, the Jews rejected Him, although they were expecting 
His manifestation and in their temples and synagogues were crying and 
lamenting, saying, "O God, hasten the coming of the Messiah!"  Why did 
they deny Him when He announced Himself?... They voiced their objections, 
saying, "We are expecting Christ, but His coming is conditioned upon 
certain fulfillments and prophetic announcements.  

   Among the signs of His appearance is one that He shall come from an 
unknown place, whereas now this claimant of Messiahship has come from 
Nazareth.  We know his home, and we are acquainted with his mother.

   Second, one of the signs of Messianic conditions is that His scepter 
would be an iron rod, and this Christ has not even a wooden staff.

   Third, he was to be seated upon the throne of David, whereas this 
Messianic king is in the utmost state of poverty and has not even a mat.

   Fourth, He was to conquer the East and the West.  This person has not 
even conquered a village.  How can he be the Messiah?

   Fifth, He was to promulgate the laws of the Bible.  This one has not 
only failed to promulgate the laws of the Bible, but he has broken the 
law of the Sabbath.

   Sixth, the Messiah was to gather together all the Jews who were 
scattered in Palestine and restore them to honor and prestige, but 
this one has degraded the Jews instead of uplifting them.

   Seventh, during His sovereignty even the animals were to enjoy 
blessings and comfort, for according to the prophetic texts, He should 
establish peace to such a universal extent that the eagle and quail 
will live together, the lion and deer would feed in the same meadow, 
the wolf and the lamb would lie down in the same pasture.  In the 
human kingdom warfare was to cease entirely; spears would be turned 
into pruning hooks and swords into plowshares.  Now we see in the day 
of this would-be Messiah such injustice prevails that even he himself 
was sacrificed. How could he be the promised Christ?"
And so they spoke infamous words regarding Him.

  Now inasmuch as the Jews were submerged in the sea of ancestral
imitations, they could not comprehend the meaning of these prophecies.  
All the words of the prophets were fulfilled, but because the Jews 
held tenaciously to hereditary interpretations, they did not understand 
the inner meaning of the Holy Bible; therefore, they denied Jesus Christ, 
the Messiah.  The purpose of the prophetic words was not the outward or 
literal meaning, but the inner symbolical significance.  For example, it 
was announced that the Messiah was to come from an unknown place. This 
did not refer to the birthplace of the physical body of Jesus.  It has 
reference to the reality of the Christ - that is to say, the Christ 
reality was to appear from the invisible realm - for the divine reality 
of Christ is holy and sanctified above place.

   His sword was to be a sword of iron.  This signified His tongue 
which should separate the true from the false and by which great 
sword of attack He would conquer the kingdoms of the hearts.  He 
did not conquer the physical power of an iron rod; He conquered the 
East and the West by the sword of His utterance.

   He was seated upon the throne of David, but His sovereignty, was 
neither a Napoleonic sovereignty nor the vanishing dominion of a 
Pharaoh.  The Christ Kingdom was everlasting, eternal in the heaven 
of the divine Will.

   By his promulgating the laws of the Bible the reality of the law of 
Moses was meant.  The Sinaitic law is the foundation of the reality of 
Christianity.  Christ promulgated it and gave it higher, spiritual 
expression.

  He conquered and subdued the East and West.  His conquest was 
effected through the breaths of the Holy Spirit, which eliminated all 
boundaries and shone from all horizons.

  In His day, according to prophecy, the wolf and lamb were to drink 
from the same fountain.  This was realized in Christ.  The fountain 
referred to was the Gospel, from which the water of life gushes forth.  
The wolf and lamb are opposed and divergent races symbolized by these 
animals.  Their meeting and association were impossible, but having 
become believers in Jesus Christ those who were formerly as wolves 
and lambs became united through the words of the Gospel.

   The purport is that all the meanings of the prophecies were fulfilled, 
but because the Jews were captives of ancestral imitations and did not 
perceive the reality of the meanings of these words, they denied Christ...

   It is evident, then, that we must forsake all such imitations and 
beliefs so that we may not commit this error.  We must investigate 
reality, lay aside selfish notions and banish hearsay from our minds. - 

			`Abdu'l-Baha, Promulgation of Universal Peace,198

Sorry for the long quotation. I felt that it addresses the heart of
your question. I am looking forward to your reply.

By the way thank you for correcting my usage of the term KAfer. I
apologize for my sloppiness.
						part 2 of 2
Warm regards,

Kamran Hakim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian