HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cfwong@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Downtown boy)
Subject: Re: Political Prostitutes or Democractic Activitists  ?
Keywords: CMFN 
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 13:09:04 EST

In article <By0wAt.1x4@cs.psu.edu> echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.154208.7485@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>>
>>	The loss of MFN (which I am NOT advocating) is not the catastrophic
>>disaster that many are making it out to be. No one is starving in China.
>>Most people have a decent place to live. The standard of living is quite
>>low, yes, but if it stays where it is, very few people will suffer the
>>loss of health or life because of it.
>
>	Well, if it is not going to cause disaster and people's living
>is not going to suffer, according to the logic in your earlier posts,
>how is it going to help forcing "bad" government out?  So won't it
>be all for nothing then?
>
>	As we have seen in Russia and South Africa, "bad" government 
>can be forced to out or change when the economy is ruined or collapsed.
>But unfortunately, we don't see any "good" government or social order
>can be built on such collapsed economy.
>
>>	The real suffering in China is due to the corrupt and authoritarian
>>government as it effects individuals who oppose it.
>
>	Well, Mark, I am sorry but I have to say that you don't know
>enough about the life in China.
>
>
>
>    Eddie

  Maybe my understanding of CMFN is wrong. But isn't it a conditional
  thing? IF China doesn't comply to certain requirement set forth by
  the US, they MAY lose the rights stipulated by the MFN. 

  CMFN appeals to me for 2 reasons:
  1) It sends a message to CG that their records on human rights is noted
  by others and are not welcomed. Hopefully, CG will try improving those
  things so as to maintain the MFN status.
  2) Like Mark, I don't see imposing CMFN will cause economic disaster.
  Why would it? Are we absolutely sure that CG will not comply to at least
  one or two conditions?  If they do, then the US will see CMFN a success,
  though limited, and continue to grant MFN status on some other conditions
  maybe. If they do not, it doesn't necessarily mean an outright abolition
  of China's MFN status, it can be done step by step and if China's
  "market economy" is functioning well, it should be able to explore other
  markets before it's too late.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: jfl@omaha.eel.ufl.edu (Yu-Fung Liu)
Subject: Re: Japanese
Reply-To: edo@ugrad.ee.ufl.edu
Organization: UF EE Department (Graduate Student)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:44:20 GMT

In article <00963B71.84059520@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>, uphhswh@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:
|> Two Japanese girls said that tofu was invented in Japan; Japanese ancestor came
|> from Polynesia islands; nevertheless they called the square letter in their
|> language Chinese letter while much of it has been abondoned. 
|> All this is ok. In fact it is fortunate for other countries that Japanese are
|> not Chinese, since if they are as clever as Chinese what the world would be
|> now?  

What is your point?
Please leave you name on the screen if you said something.
From: haoc@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Joke: RE: What are the first ten best cars in the world? How about best
Date: 20 Nov 92 09:20:28 MDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University

In article <92324.211108XXX100@psuvm.psu.edu>, <XXX100@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> The two legs + two feet.
> High intelligence, automatic route recognition,
> parking ticket free, speeding ticket free,
> convinient and cheap fuel,
> excellent integraty, easy fix,
> inherent insurance, reasonable pollution(cyclable),
> .....
> 
> Disadavantages:
> fragril, limited speed but easy speed shift (by flight),
> .....
>

   And it comes conviniently with either manual transmission or automatic,
with  "STICK" or without.
 
-- 
*******************************************************************************
A flying bullet hit my heart,all of a sudden everything turns dark,oh my god!!!
******************************************************************************** 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: hongl@cs.tamu.edu (HL)
Subject: please let Zhou Enlai rest peacefully
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:20:23 GMT

1).  I honestly believe Zhou had considered all the factors before he made 
the decision to do what he believed to be the best thing to do for china.

2).  Outsiders are always more clear than the people involved.  But again, 
outsiders may not know all the facts and difficulties he had to face.  
Pang2 guan1 zhe3 qing1, dang1 juu2 zhe3 mi2.

3).  For those of you who think he could have stopped Mao from doing wrong
things, think twice.  Zhou didn't have the power or military support.  Even
if he did, was starting a civil war really worth it?  People had suffered 
enough from World Wars.  Besides, he couldn't foresee what could happen in
the future, being in his shoes, he avoided internal fights by compromising.

4).  For those of you who think he should have stood up to Mao, then he would
be a hero, but would China be better off with a dead Zhou.  He put down his
pride, his honor, even himself, worked hard for the goals he believed would
be beneficial to China at that time.

5).  He was found with cancer in 1973, I think.  In the final 4 years of his
life, he could have chosen to lay back and rest, but instead, he chose to work
even harder in order to compete with time, to try to get as many barriers out 
of way as possible, and he suffered tremendously.

6).  For those of you who think he did wrong and want to punish him,
just think having no children as his punishment.  Even if the rumor were true
that he had children, then he couldn't know his children, live with his 
children, must be a painful thing.

7).  For those of you who like to judge people, just step in his shoes and
see if you can do better.  If not, then stop judging him.  If yes, then
have you done anything for the people.  Even if the answer is yes, shouldn't
you spend more time on helping others since you have the ability than judging
him.  May be you would say you don't have the power, but then since you have
the ability, you should be able to think some way to do more constructive 
things.

Finally, past is past.  I understand exploring the past would help us avoiding
mistakes in the future.  But concentrate too much on what would have been done
or what should have been done can't help us building a bright future.  Just
remember Zhou was only human being, he was not god, he couldn't control a lot
of things, he made mistakes, and he suffered for them.  So, I ask you all 
please let him rest peacefully.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 16:28:47 CST
From: Phil <U53601@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Anonymous posting

Hi everybody,

I'm a little curious about how to do anonymous posting. The system I'm using

doesn't look like letting me to change much info. in the header lines.

No flame please. I'm not planning to do anything wild but out of curiousity.

Regards,


Phil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: China's super computer
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:22:44 GMT

According to Radio Beijing yesterday report:
   China broke the 1billion instruction per secondd barrior in super 
computing. China is the third nation that did it, after U.S. and Japan.

P.S.:
  The significance of it:
        Aircraft design easier.
        ......
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng)
Subject: Re: Patriotism sucks (Re:  What the HK governor is doing?  Why?)
Organization: Penn State, Department of Physics
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:39:10 GMT

In article <By6EC4.9z6@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
>
>The fact that many people join the discussion in this news group
>is because they are concerned about China (you are included). No
>one has right to accuse another person for not being patriotic.
>I think it would be at least very boring if this news group becomes
>the study group of CCP doctrine and Chinese government policies.

	I agree.  And I would go one step further to say that no
one should (instead of has no right) accuse another person for
being patriotic either.

	All these "big hats" just do not help in discussion.



    Eddie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha)
Subject: Re: Political Prostitutes or Democractic Activitists ?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 02:30:56 GMT

In article <liqiang.722458216@kramden> liqiang@kramden.nyu.edu (Li) writes:
>mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>
>>	If I am reading the analogy right, I don't think that CMFN is like
>>burning the building down. It's more like picketing in front of the building.
>
>>	The loss of MFN (which I am NOT advocating) is not the catastrophic
>>disaster that many are making it out to be. No one is starving in China.
>>Most people have a decent place to live. The standard of living is quite
>>low, yes, but if it stays where it is, very few people will suffer the
>>loss of health or life because of it.
>
>So, Mark, you mean "Let them suffer"?

No, because I don't think that the average person in China is suffering,
except in terms of repression by the government. They may desperately want
the material life that much of the West enjoys, but I don't call that
suffering. I call living in a Chinese political prison suffering.

And again I repeat, I want China to keep its MFN status. I want to see China
grow strong. But in my opinion (and I know most people disagree with me), I
don't think that economic freedom is going to solve the real problems that
are holding China back.

China is a car; MFN will keep the gas tank full; but there's a madman at 
the wheel. 

I understand the arguments that economic freedoms in China will lead to
human rights. However, I don't agree with them. I'd rather concentrate on
getting rid of the madman. And I don't think that the loss of MFN would
cause great loss of life in China. 

>
>>	The real suffering in China is due to the corrupt and authoritarian
>>government as it effects individuals who oppose it.
>
>Mr. Libucha, it puzzles me why you think it is not "the catastrophic
>disaster" if china's standard of living "stays where it is". It has stayed
>"where it is" for 150 yrs and you don't think we have had enough? Ask Mr.
>George Bush how a 0% annual growth rate would have helped him get reelected? 
>
>Well, you admitted that China's standard of living is "quite low"; that's why
>it is even more important to have a dynamic GROWTH. There ARE still people
>starving in China and most people DON'T have a decent place to live. Every
>hardworking Chinese deserves the same quality of living standard as that
>of every hardworking American (like yourself). What do you think of this?

>- Li, Qiang
I don't think this is relevant. Do I deserve the same quality of life as
Ross Perot, the queen of England, or Deng Xiaoping? Do they work any harder
than me, or you, or anybody else? 

I'd like to see everyone in China have a standard of living like that we
enjoy in the U.S., but that's not the point. If the wealth in China is going
to be invested in the CCP (and it will be), I'd rather not contribute to it.

Mark

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: jialin@jacob.botany.uga.edu (Jialin Li)
Subject: Re: What are the first ten best cars in the world? How about best-buys?
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:46:59 GMT

In article <19NOV199213025924@jane.uh.edu> mece1us@jane.uh.edu writes:
>I had very good discussion with a chinese gay ( short term as C) and a French 
>gay(as F below) about world economics and especially about cars. C thought that
>Japanese cars are the best, by looking at quality and price, and also from that
>most classmates bought Japanese car. And F responsed him by asking him to list
>ten best cars in the world. Will someone give me a clear idea what the ten
>best cars are in the world, what is your reason?

First, I think you meant to say they are guys, not gays. 

To name the so called best cars, you need to clearly specify what
criteria define your best car. 

An automobile is a man made machine,  a product full of engineering
compromises - there is no absolutely best car. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: hlu@eecs.wsu.edu (H.J. Lu)
Subject: GNU (Re: Moving frequencies)
Organization: School of EECS, Washington State University
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 18:36:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.160212.15901@bradford.ac.uk>, H.Wang@bradford.ac.uk (H WANG) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> In article <PWU.92Nov20005548@blackjack.ai.mit.edu> 
|> pwu@ai.mit.edu (Peng Wu) wondered:
|> 
|> >when a country gets older, its people tend to stay at 
|> >places longer?
|> 
|> When a country gets older, its people tend to be more 
|> and more dissatisfied. Remember Richard Stallman, a
|> former staff member of your Lab? He said:
|> 
|>    I cannot in good conscience sign a nondisclosure 
|>    agreement or a software license agreement.  For 
|>    years I worked within the Artificial Intelligence
|>    Lab to resist such tendencies and other inhospitalities, 
|>    but eventually they had gone too far: I could not 
|>    remain in an institution where such things are 
|>    done for me against my will.
|> 
|>    So that I can continue to use computers without 
|>    dishonor, I have decided to put together a sufficient 
|>    body of free software so that I will be able to
|>    get along without any software that is not free.  
|>    I have resigned from the AI lab to deny MIT any 
|>    legal excuse to prevent me from giving GNU away.
|> 
|> I am interested in GNU, yet the personality of Richard 
|> Stallman seems to be more interesting. Now that you 
|> work in the same Lab he once worked, is there any comment 
|> on him from inside the Lab? Could such a person be tolerated
|> by such a commercialized society in US? Is he born to
|> be a communist (Gong4 Chan3 Dang3 literally :-)?

Does anyone in China know and use GNU stuff? I think it is the greatest.
I know people in HK and TW use it. Maybe we can introduce GNU to
mainland China.

H.J.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: li@seas.gwu.edu (Nan Li)
Subject: look for Baiqiao Liao
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:59:31 GMT

Hi, this is a post for looking for a high school classmate.

Baiqiao Liao, Male, 22 years old,
	1985-1988 in the Middle School Affliated to Hunan Normal University,
	1988-1992 in the University of Beijing,
	1992-now  in the department of Chemistry, University of Massachusettes

If any one knows him and his current address, please send email to 
li@seas.gwu.edu
Any clue or help will be highly appreciated.  Thanks in advance!!!

Nan Li  (li@seas.gwu.edu)
From: minzhi@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Min-Zhi Shao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: MFN
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:01:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <92Nov19.105802est.122@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu) writes:
]
]On the other hand, Vietnam fought a bitter war with America before,
]but watching CNN these days, I don't recall I have seen anything close
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^
]to the Hanoi regime's ASS KISSING moves toward some back-bench
]US Senators, talk about a 180 degree turn.  I don't think Vietnam or China 
]or N. Korea had ever kissed the USSRs feet like this before even during 
]the period it was their strongest ally and provider.  

I like some programs of CNN very much.  For example, the Larry King Live.
But under no circumstances should you forget their jie ji li chang :^).
And they just feed whatever their audiences like the most.  And what those
audiences like the most are unfortunately what they are used to be fed the
most.  Let me give you an example.  In the last dog fight, President Bush
said his administration won the cold war.  Soon Clinton and Gore fighted
back.  They said no, credits should also go to our Democrats since Harry
Trueman.  But this didn't satisfy Ross Perot.  So he said no, the American
people are the real winner :^).  So where are the Russia people?  No one
asked and no one mentioned, even for the purpose of politically correct.
Narrow minded?  Shut up, you brain washed :^))

Another example is the current Hong Kong issue.  I suggest you folks pay
some attention to the current media reports (by the way, don't forget the
ifcss open letter to Chris Patten :^)).  Enjoy.


Min-Zhi

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: arthur@solomon.technet.sg (Arthur Sombrito)
Subject: Re: Advise/Info on game systems in Phil.
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 07:27:01 GMT


Oo.
From: news@netnews.upenn.edu (USENET News System)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Ramos Orders Crackdown on Corruption
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:40:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: microlab.-161192144222
Followup-To: soc.culture.filipino
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


	MANILA, Philippines (UPI) -- President Fidel Ramos Thursday ordered
the military to cleanse its ranks of soldiers linked to organized crime.
	``Let this be a warning to the few misguided military personnel who --
by their evil work -- negate the sacrifices and deeds of the majority:
Your days are numbered,'' Ramos told troops in a speech marking the 53rd
anniversary of the Defense Department.
	Ramos, who served as defense secretary before becoming president,
ordered armed-forces chief Gen. Lisandro Abadia to redouble efforts to
combat corruption in the military and instill better discipline.
	``We must restore the honor and glory that has always characterized
the military organization,'' the president said.
	Ramos' remarks came amid increasing evidence linking some soldiers
and police to organized crime.
	Authorities have arrested several active and former soldiers in
recent months for alleged involvement with kidnapping gangs that prey
mostly on wealthy ethnic-Chinese.
	Thursday, Manila's international airport also fired the head of its
police contingent after authorities caught officers allegedly escorting
a smuggler through customs with $720,000 worth of ``shabu,'' or
methamphetamine hydrochloride.
	Ramos Tuesday gave an ``urgent'' designation to a Senate bill that
would make kidnapping and drug dealing punishable by death.
From: sdekey@natinst.com (Samson Dekey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: What happened to the DFW get-together?
Date: 17 Nov 1992 16:14:47 -0600
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Distribution: tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: eagle.natinst.com

Subject line said it all.

Cheers,

Sam
From: news@netnews.upenn.edu (USENET News System)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Phil DJ Rene Sta. Cruz Challenges Stern, Hall to Duel
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:16:00 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.filipino
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


	MANILA, Philippines (UPI) -- A Philippine broadcaster Wednesday
challenged TV talk-show host Arsenio Hall and American radio ``shock
jock'' Howard Stern to a duel over alleged anti-Filipino remarks he
claims both recently made.
	``I'm challenging you to a duel any time, any place,'' Radio DZXL
announcer Rene Santa Cruz said over the air. ``You can choose the type
of fight you want.''
	Santa Cruz added that his employer, Radio Mindanao Network, had
offered to pay his way to ``any place in the world'' if either U.S.
personality accepted his challenge.
	The Philippine announcer accused Hall of making anti-Filipino remarks
during an unspecified TV show, while Stern allegedly made racist remarks
in September on his nationally sydicated radio talk show, which
originates in New York.
	Stern's reputed comments have sparked a firestorm of protests in the
Philippines ever since word of them first broke.
	The ``shock jock'' allegedly called Filipinos ``cheaters'' when
discussing a September decision to strip a Philippine Little League team
of its 1992 international World Series title because of reputed rules
infractions.
	While discussing the scandal, Stern also allegedly said Filipinos 
``sell their daughters for sex.''
	The remarks prompted a formal diplomatic protest from the Philippines
to the U.S. State Department, while Filipino-Americans picketed Stern's
New York radio station and filed a $65 million lawsuit against him.
	Neither Stern nor Hall were immediately available for comment about
Santa Cruz's charges.
From: news@netnews.upenn.edu (USENET News System)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Ramos Favors Democracy Over Dictatorship
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:21:14 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.filipino
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


	MANILA, Philippines (UPI) -- President Fidel Ramos Friday defended his
nation's U.S.-style democracy after criticism of the system by
Singapore's former prime minister, Lee Kuan Yew.
	Ramos said Filipinos rejected dictatorship when they ousted Ferdinand
Marcos.
	Lee, Singapore's prime minister for 31 years, Wednesday blamed the
separation of powers under the American-patterned constitution for the
Philippines' slow economic growth and suggested Ramos assume stronger
control.
	He also said in a speech before an international business conference
that discipline -- not extensive freedom -- was the key to the vibrant
economies of Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong and South Korea.
	``I can appreciate how brushing aside obstacles to his agenda can
save a lot of time for any political leader,'' Ramos said in remarks to
the same business meeting Friday. ``But this prescription fails to
consider our ill-fated flirtation with authoritarianism not so long ago.
''
	Ramos, a former general, co-led a 1986 popular revolt that ended
Marcos' increasingly corrupt 20-year rule, eight years of which were
under martial law.
	``We must be proud as Filipinos, having invented a non-violent
people's power revolution in February 1986 that became a model...for the
rest of the world,'' Ramos said, adding many countries in Asia were 
``democracies only in name.''
	He also rejected Lee's opinion that the separation of powers among
three branches of government -- congress, executive and judiciary --
paralyzed decision-making.
	``This government is gripped by neither paralysis nor gridlock,''
Ramos said. ``And I am confident that what is needed for national
deliverance the executive and congress shall provide by closer
collaboration.
	``We should not rush to substitute for our democratic processes the
discipline of command,'' he added. ``Democracy evokes from citizens a
discipline of its own...Without democracy, we cannot truly win
development.''
From: ekevik@media.uio.no (Oystein Ekevik)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: FAKE POSTINGS
Date: 18 Nov 92 08:05:16 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.filipino
Organization: Dept. of Media & Communication

FAKE POSTINGS!!

Any posting in my name, dated between November 8 and 17 IS A FAKE. A group
of students in our Dept. have done postings in several conferences using my
name (and Mac) during this period, of course without my permission. Please
notify me if you see my name in any other conference dated between November
8 and 17. The students will be severely punished.

In advance, thank you for your help.

*****************************************
Oystein Ekevik, P.O.Box 1093, Blindern, 0317 Oslo
Dept. of Media & Communication
University of OSLO, Norway
e-mail ekevik@media.uio.no, fax ++47-2-694790
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino