HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scs@scotty.mv.com (Steve Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Racers vs Race Fans
Distribution: world
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 21:50:12 GMT
Organization: Scott Motorsports
Reply-To: scs@scotty.mv.com

...This is not intended to be a flame but I can remember 3-4
years ago when this newsgroup was relatively new and there were
quite a few racers that subscribed. There were always race 
reports from various types of formula, from karts to FF1600 to
formula Atlantic, Trans-Am, Rallying, and even Mini-stocks
(stock cars).
  So, what's going on?, Are we, the racers simply drowned in
a sea of autosports critics who in my humble opinion know next
to nothing about the real side of the sport? Or, is it that 
there are no more racers that read and post to this newsgroup?
Maybe the few racers that do subscribe feel that nobody wants 
to hear what they have to say...if that's the case, you`re 
wrong, because I for one would much rather read some real-life
accounts of trials, triumphs, or even failures, rather than
someone`s opinion on who`s fault it was that caused some alter-
cation or why someone is a bonehead for not getting out of the
way of the poster`s favorite driver.

Maybe it was intended to be a flame.

I`ll post a followup to this soon because I'd like to know
exactly how many subscribers do in fact race.

I hope there'll be a couple reports from New Zealand on the
formula pacific series going over [our] winter.

Steve Scott        Manchester, NH.,USA       scs@scotty.mv.com
Karting: Racing's best kept secret.


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: D. Hill vs A. Prost <-> Mi. Andretti vs. A Senna
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:40:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.172909.5814@cbnews.cb.att.com> kaybee@cbnews.cb.att.com (karen.a.beaudoin) writes:
>Not to detriment the abilities of one Mike A., but the car he was
>testing is certainly not the same "spec" that Senna used in qualifying
>in May '92 in Spain. 
>
>My guess is the engine is probably at least one "phase" newer, the fuel
>was certainly one generation different and the aerodynamics were certainly
>different for MA's test. 
>
We must also regard the fact that they're testing on the
'93 spec narrower tires.

bob
From: andyw@meaddata.com (Andy Welter)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: French GP struck off!
Date: 14 Dec 1992 16:00:49 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Distribution: world
Reply-To: andyw@meaddata.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: geronimo.meaddata.com

In article 28938@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com, winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>
>In article <1992Dec10.163709.13117@news.mentorg.com>,
>mbutts@mbutts.mentorg.com (Mike Butts) writes:
>|>
>|>No French GP?  No home GP for Prost and Renault?  Inconceivable.  This is 
>|>called FISA politics, right?
>
>No this is called French politics.  A French court has found Team Williams
>guilty of violating the no tobacco advertising law and has fined them several
>million (US$ value), because the cars bore Camel advertising in the Australian
>GP and French television showed Williams cars when it broadcast the race.
>I don't see where a French court has jurisdiction over what a British company
>does on Australian soil, but there it is.  If Team Williams set foot in
>France, their equipment could be impounded to pay the fine.  Because there is
>no guarantee that this sort of thing won't happen, FISA have cancelled the race.
>
>--PSW

I'm trying to figure out the impact of all this...

If France bans all tobacco advertising before the EC does, I would think that
F1 teams would continue to have tobacco company sponsorship because of the money
involved, and because there are still plenty of markets where they can have
company logos on cars.

Does this mean that French TV will not be able to safely show any
F1 races this year?  Are the French Racing fans up in arms about this?

Not being a french lawyer, or even any kind of lawyer, I am hardly an expert
about this, but why would Williams be held responsible for what a french
TV network showed on the air?  I would think it would be French TV that 
would be fined.  Do we have any more good info about this?


---
|Andrew Welter	     |  All views are mine and not |      (513) 865-6822   
|Mead Data Central   |    that of my employer      |      pd&o-ps-ts-dsp       
|P.O. Box 933        |                             |     andyw@meaddata.com
|Dayton, Ohio  45401 |          	           | ...!uunet!meaddata!andyw
From: brims@bnkl01.astro.ucla.edu (George Brims)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: A Tip of the Helmet!
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:39:00 GMT
Organization: UCLA Dept of Astronomy

In article <199212151259.AA24876@pitt.edu> Ardalan=Sadeghi%System%Co_LAN@deskpro.COMpt.pitt.EDU writes:
>A tip of the helmet to William Stoffel and his 'Televised Event' listings.
>Without his efforts many races would have been missed.  And the summer
>season (racing season) could be a lost cause.  Just to let you know that
>your efforts are appreciated.  Thanks much and have a merry christmas.
I'll echo that. There, I just did.

Cheers,
George Brims
From: louise.norgaar@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Louise Norgaar) 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Cig and Alcohol Ads
Date: 18 Dec 92 22:42:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: IDC BBS - Alameda, CA - 510-865-7115
Reply-To: louise.norgaar@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Louise Norgaar) 

To: Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

GO.  In article <1gnqh4INN8to@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
GO.  cg894@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Lee Wilson) writes:
GO.  >
GO.  >I neither smoke or drink, but seeing sposorship decals on F1,
GO.  >F3000, IndyCar, IMSA, or NASCAR cars doesn't bother me at all!
GO.  >They have NO effect on me (I'm sure Marlboro, Budweiser, and
GO.  >everyone else doesn't like to hear that).  My point is that
GO.  >these ads do not promote taking up smoking, but switching brands
GO.  >if you already do.  How many previously non-smoking Michael
GO.  >Andretti fans are gonna start puffing away at Marlboro's in
GO.  >honor of their driver?  Not many, I submit.  Advertising is
GO.  >based on the one principal that we all have: the ability to make
GO.  >a decision.  I decide not to smoke, but at the same time, I do
GO.  >decide to wear my Penske Racing Marlboro cap.  Half the jury,
GO.  >or whatever the French courts system have, were smoking Gitanes!
GO.  > 
GO.  >Give me a break!
GO.  
     To which Gerald answered: (some text deleted but in the same vein)

GO.  So what you're saying is that noone in the US would have any trouble
GO.  if the Columbian cocaine cartels began sponsoring drivers in the
GO.  Indycars or in the Winston Cup...
GO.  
GO.  ...the legal and illegal drug trade is interesting...southeast
GO.  Asians try to get Americans hooked on heroin...RJR and Philip
GO.  Morris have been rather successful getting Southeast Asians hooked
GO.  on tobacco...with incredible pressure from the US government no
GO.  less...you take our tobacco or we won't allow any of your products
GO.  into the US.
GO.
     Lighten up!  Good grief, how come every discussion about cigarettes
     and it's advertising has to degenerate into a free-for all about
     legal and illegal drugs!?  It is assinine to equate these two
     things together in the same breathe!  The man in not saying this at
     all, he is simply making a very valid point...those who smoke might
     change brands because of the support that they give a team...I once
     called TIDE (Proctor and Gamble) to thank them for sponsoring
     Darrel Waltrip in NASCAR....I used the product for this reason (and
     it got my clothes clean).  But the point here is that racing is and
     advertising is not what gets the kids to smoking.  It is the
     thought that they are going to be "adult" by doing so.

     ...sigh...

 
---
 . KingQWK 1.05 # 88 . ...... from AutoSportsBBS ......
                                         
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mcclure@NEBULA.SSD.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Eric Walter's Ass.
Reply-To: mcclure@NEBULA.SSD.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 14:54:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.140453.28041@cunews.carleton.ca>, marcink@quantum.carleton.ca (Marcin Kolbuszewski) writes:
>Could someone please send me, or post the address of
>Eric Walters Associates? - or the address of the company
>distributing Racecar Engineering.
>
>Thanks 
>
>Marcin


The address for EWA is
                    EWA/Miniature Cars USA
                    Box 188, 369 Springfield Ave
                    Berkeley Heights, NJ 07922

 Tele # 908-665-7811,  Fax # 908-665-7814
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: F1: Hill gets Williams drive!
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:02:20 GMT

Maybe for my Xmas present this damn machine will start
working again......

.....just curious about something.  Seems to me that the
Damon Hill announcement (at least here) has garnered more
discussion than the Mears' retirement announced last week.

Imo, the latter news had much more significance.  Are we
sliding to the level of the general sports media?  And why
did the retirements of Magic Johnson, Larry Bird and other
notable athletes thru the years command huge amounts of 
sporting press in comparison to the few whimpers aired
regarding Mears?

On an unrelated note, Steve Kinser recently 'tested' one
of Jack Roush's Birds at Daytona.  In a subsequent interview
he was obviously asked if NASCAR was in his future.  Of course
he showed an interest in participating some day, but at the
same time he stated, basically, that though he was successful
at his game (WoO, etc), he necessarily wouldn't profess to
be great at someone else's "game" (in this case nascar).
It's refreshing to hear some professional drivers that don't
pretend to be great behind any type of wheel they're steering.

-bob-  


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Subject: Re: Williams F1
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:15:03 GMT


In article <liq0tpINNgvf@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>,
chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
|>
|>Damon Hill is the front runner for the world championship in 93.  I
|>think that Prost will have to struggle to be runner-up.

Hill knows the car and is faster in practice laps than Prost, but Prost knows
the circuits better and has far, far more experience in actual race conditions.
Damon Hill hasn't even raced a full season yet, and he spent most of this
past partial season trying to keep out of everybody's way in a backmarker
Brabham.  Hill has the potential, to be sure, but don't dismiss Prost so
lightly.

--PSW
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: French GP struck off!
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:43:46 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry) writes:
>I am surprised that more has not not been said about the possibility
>that the Monaco GP will not go on either.

>It is too bad that the French government had to do this after pouring
>all that money into Magny Cours and the infrastructure of the surrounding
>area.

Williams is still planning to test at Paul Ricard sometime soon.

In Nigel Roebuck's column in Autosport he quotes a "prominent
insider" at the FISA awards ceremony with ...

  "Don't cancel you're hotel room at Magny-Cours.  There's
   no way that race will be off.  Too much at stake. Too
   many vested interests.  Consider the reality of the
   situation.  Both the President and the Prime Minister
   come from the Magny-Cours region.  The track was built
   with government money.  One judge in Brittany who doesn't
   smoke, and doesn't want others to, is not going to stop
   the oldest Grand Prix on the calendar."

An opinion poll taken in October in France showed 51% support for
the restrictions on tobacco advertising.  A recent poll showed
support had dropped to 38 %.  These can be taken with a large
lump of salt without knowing the sample sizes and the previous
accuracy of the pollsters.


			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: Williams F1
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 16 Dec 1992 09:10 EST  

In article <1glmhaINNhbv@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk>, mbahh@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk (A.H. 
Henry) writes...
>In article <lisfs8INNh6@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM 
(Chris Prael) writes:
>>>In article <lisfs8INNh6@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM 
(Chris Prael) writes:

>>>>Damon Hill is the front runner for the world championship in 93.  I
>>>>think that Prost will have to struggle to be runner-up.

>Damon Hill reckons he's driven more than 20,000 km in testing, so
>I presume he can get himself comfortable in the car.  However, what
>of the chances of Prost being able to tweak the aerodynamics to 
>take advantage of his shorter stature ?  Will Hill be, if you'll
>excuse the pun, Bergered halfway through the season  ?  

>>Alain Prost has great talent, a powerful intelligence, superb
>>experience, and a great will to win.  (He is also a great in whiner as 
>>Mansell and Senna.)  But, unless he can close and reverse that gap that 
>>now separates him from Hill,  Damon must be the favorite for next years 
>>championship.

While the great debate of whether or not Hill is faster than Prost makes 
for interesting reading, it may be a moot point if Hill is the #2 driver 
for Williams.  The question of equal equipment aside, it is a distinct 
possibility that Damon Hill's role in 1993 will be to keep Schumacher off 
of Alain's tail and bring Frank another constructor's championship.

JD
From: Ric.Johnson@f4.n290.z1.aisbbs.com (Ric Johnson)
Sender: postmaster@aisbbs.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: IMSA World Sports Cars S
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1992 16:11:00


>[ On 12/01/92 rgolen wrote this to All ]<

rr>these the "Z Cars".....Z as in ZZZZzzzzzzzzz snore! Normally aspirated
rr>V6s wow!!!, at least the SCCA Shelby CanAms run turbo motors!

Sorry Ric, but the Shelby Can-Ams are normally aspirated Dodge 3.3
V-6s...

                                   rj
___
 X MegaMail 2.10 #1607:"Please send again, I have a Lucas Modem!"
From: ab@crosfield.co.uk (Andrew Bradley)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: John Barnard's new Farrari
Date: 14 Dec 92 12:03:56 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.


A friend of mine who works for Philips has recently visited the Woking
site in Surrey to determine their test equipement requirements.

The suprise was that not only are they developing the new Farrari
chassis but also the V12 engine to go with it - all at the Woking site.

Don't they trust Farrari to develop it themselves ?
From: glenn@misty.boeing.com (Glenn Cirlincione)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:05:59 GMT
Subject: Re: Daytona 24Hours News
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane BCS Support
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

It looks like Emory Donaldson's (ex-Full Time Racings chief honcho) move
to Roush brought along John Fergus to the Roush team.  He would be a
good "full time" addition to the Roush team (Fergus).

Glenn
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cjp53999@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cory James Padfield)
Subject: Re: French GP struck off!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:35:56 GMT

esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry) writes:

>In article <thos.724282827@suite.sw.oz.au> thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes:
>>In <1992Dec11.195313.1126@mala.bc.ca> epp@mala.bc.ca (Lorne Epp) writes:
>>
>>>According to the news report I read, the FISA decision had nothing to
>>>do with people blockading the highways.  The French race was dropped 
>>>because a French court fined McClaren (I think) for displaying cigarette
>>>advertising in the Australian Grand Prix, which was shown on French TV.
>>
>>Typical French ego-centrism.
>>
>>>The fear, I expect, is that before too long many of the teams will owe
>>>massive fines in France, so that if they set foot on French soil, they
>>>could be detained until they pay.
>>
>>How will this affect their travel within Europe? France is between 
>>the UK and a number of places (but I suppose that only matters if
>>they went home between races).

>In order for the F1 teams to get to Monaco, they must travel through France
>because the principality is surrounded by France, except for the coast, there
>are not sufficient shipping facility in Monaco to unload the F1 cars from
>ships (from what I remember) and the airport is in Nice, France.

>I am surprised that more has not not been said about the possibility
>that the Monaco GP will not go on either.

>Normally the F1 teams drive to Spain and Portugal, but this requires driving
>through France.  They still have the option of flying or shipping the cars 
>and equipment in.

>F1 teams that are based in France and are sponsored by tobacco companies
>(what is the current status of Ligier?) are in trouble.

   Isn't this the most amazing part of it all???  Ligier, a team based
in France, so it is co-owned by the Socialistic French government, is
also sponsored by a partly government-owned cigarette company. Why did
the French decide to attack a British company, when they had their own
goddamnmed company within the government itself???? I'll tell you why.
The French government is so STUPID it escapes words. Oh hell, I forgot,
the other French team, Larrousse, is sponsored by Japanese cigs. But 
who cares, since France is obviously willing to protect its own damned
iterests. I better quit while I still have some composure.

Cory 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: pod@sour.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell)
Subject: Re: French GP struck off!
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:56:39 GMT

winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:

>What astounds me is that the French court didn't simply refuse to hear the
>case, as it involves an event taking place outside France and not involving
>French citizens or companies.  Were this sort of suit to be brought in a US
>court, it would be thrown out immediately--the court would tell the plaintiff
>to file in Australian court.

This is starting to get a bit off the subject of racing, and I agree
that the French court's actions seem pretty dumb but don't be so quick
to think the US wouldn't do something similar.  The Manuel Noriega case
is essentially the same, ie a foreigner on foreign soil breaks a local
law and is found liable.  Now all we need is for some French commandoes
to go and kidnap Frank Williams.

>Now, if the anti-smoking lobbyists went after
>the television company that broadcast the race in France, or maybe FOCA and FISA,
>that might be a valid complaint.  Williams have no control over the broadcast
>of GP races in France.

Agreed.  That happens a lot here come football finals or the GP.  Some
anti-smoking lobby invariably tries to get an injunction preventing
the broadcast of the event.
-- 
Paul O'Donnell - Softway Pty Ltd         |"You're just saying that because
Internet: pod@softway.sw.oz.au           |you don't understand art."
Phone: +61 2 698-2322 Fax: +61 2 699-9174|     - Jeremy Fitzhardinge
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: GR743@uacsc2.albany.edu (Greg Rickes)
Subject: Re: Cig and Alcohol Ads
Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 08:55:46 EST

>So what you're saying is that noone in the US would have any trouble
>if the Columbian cocaine cartels began sponsoring drivers in the
>Indycars or in the Winston Cup...
>
>...the legal and illegal drug trade is interesting...southeast
>Asians try to get Americans hooked on heroin...RJR and Philip
>Morris have been rather successful getting Southeast Asians hooked
>on tobacco...with incredible pressure from the US government no
>less...you take our tobacco or we won't allow any of your products
>into the US.
>
>What is going to happen to tobacco in the next fifty years is an
>going to be extremely interesting, as it is undoubtedly the most
>dangerous drug in the world.
>
>The noose around the tobacco industry is slowly going to tighten,
>because countries everywhere, including the United States, are not
>going to be able to afford the health costs...and advertising is
>going to be the first and main target.
>
>Tobacco has an advantage over other drugs though...being an
>important product of the only superpower in the world.
>
>Gerald
>
Must disagree philosophically with Gerald on this one,
as well as on a couple of niggling points. In representative
democracies there remainsa vast difference in standing of
activities that are legal and those that are illegal as
far as protection and opportunity under the law.
 
There may be health risks associated with cigarette use,
consumption of alcoholic beverages, recreationa and
procreational sexual contact, consumption of red meat,
under and over exercise, use of video display terminals,
and probably a lot more. If governments role is to
allay all risk, then citizens under that government
have surrendered their franchise as owners and
directors of the government's actions. In a society
founded on individual freedom and responsibility
the debate over over individual freedom versus the
common good must be allowed to continue, e.g.
what advertising and other public expression
is covered by freedom of the press provisions
as it applies in U.S. law. I recognize that there
may be other principles that apply under the laws
of r.a.s readers' various homelands.
 
Taking the argument to its extreme level, all
activities which pose a risk to the individual
and a potential cost to society ought to be
prohibited. History suggests that such totalitarian
impositionsdo not serve the best interest of a
flourishing human spirit.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: F1 Tests at Le Castellet
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 13:47:15 GMT

The sports section of todays daily newspaper here in Zurich reported
some times from F1 testing at Le Castellet.  I'll quote from memory:

1. Damon Hill, Williams, 1:14.32
2. Alain Prost, Williams, 1:14.43  (just +0.11)
3. Karl Wendlinger, Sauber, 1:14.52  (+0.20 on Hill, +0.09 on Prost!)
4. Blundell, McLaren, 1:06.02 (??)
5. Aliot (?!), McLaren, 1:06.??
6. Zanardi, Benetton, 1:06.??
7. Schumacher, Benetton, 1:06.72 (??)

Sorry, I don't remember the exact times of the last four.  They
were all in the 1:06-bracket and in the order given.

A couple of comments seem in order:

- It starts to look as if Sauber could be ahead of both McLaren and
  Benetton, at least in practice.  If they will be ahead of them at
  the end of the races is quite another matter, of course.  Benetton
  in particular has had a very impressive reliability record in 92.

- Isn't it surprising to see Williams test at Le Castellet in light
  of the recent cigarette advertising hoopla in France, including the
  threat of a multi-million $$ fine against them?!

- The paper didn't name the engines used by McLaren, but I would
  assume they have still been using Honda-power.

- Why should Aliot, who has driven for Peugeot in sports cars this
  year, test for McLaren?!  Happenstance?  Peugeot engines for
  McLaren??  (Let's start a new rumor ;-)  Or just a journalist who
  confused Aliot with Andretti?  (After all, ther names both start
  with the same letter! ;-)

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport