HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: mandatory service
Followup-To: soc.men,soc.women
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:26:49 GMT

  [followups to soc.men and soc.women]

km> Kelley Miller

km> There is no public university, anywhere in the U. S., that can't be at-
km> tended on govt. grants and loans.

  You forget that men must be registered for the draft to receive these loans
  and grants. I wonder how many women students would be willing to give up
  any of these loans/grants they recieve as a form of protest against this
  sexist policy.


--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:08:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.193153.15687@news.ysu.edu> ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes:
>Anyone who says they joined the army because they had no other
>options is one of two things, either a liar or a looser.  

A looser what?  (The possibilities are intriguing.)

Anyway, I think it's, like, totally adorable that you came
from someplace where there were jobs.  I, personally, would
like to see the military disbanded tomorrow (I'm a pacifist),
but the reality is that military service provides access to
education, housing, health care, jobs, and a number of other
things that would be otherwise unavailable to people from
economically depressed areas and from families with no
money.  Perhaps people who join the military do have other
options, but it seems to me to be better for everybody to
have some of these people end up in the army than in jail.
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Parents...Ugh
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:18:41 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens



	I almost want to apologize for posting this here, but I've got
to get this out.
	I'm a college student, going home to visit (at his parent's
request) this weekend. They say they want to talk to me about
something, but wouldn't say what over the phone (from the tone of
their voices it didn't sound like anything good). 
	I'm out to my family, but my parents do not accept it, and (up
to the present) have not wanted to talk about it. Denial. Big time.
They finally let it rest after my Mom threatened to have my Dad cut me
off financially (she claimed they would not support my "lifestyle"),
and I countered by telling her that I would walk out on the whole
family and they would never see me again. I bluffed (I think) and she
folded.  Then my Dad started in on the same thing, harrasing me about
"going to hell" whenever I talked to them on the phone. So I stopped
returning their phone calls and answering their letters and didn't go
home for about 6 months.  My Mom resorted to calling the police to
check my dorm room and make sure I was still alive. They got the idea
I was serious.
	Now I'm afraid they're about to pull the same thing again,
wanting me to move back home and live with them until I finish school.
Obviously, I can't live in a home with a family who doesn't accept me.
But they also hold the purse strings right now. I've got about another
year left before I'll finish school and get my degree, and I know I
won't survive that long at home, not with my sanity anyway. If they
cut me off, I'll have to quit school for at least another two years
before I can go back, and its already taken me 5 years to get this
far (During the time I was estranged from/being harrased by by
parents, I also had a nervous breakdown which caused me to loose out
on an whole quarter of school and grades.  A close friend of mine also
died of AIDS during this time - one of many more. I told the folks
this, and my father said "Well, in that lifestyle you're always going
to have people getting sick and commiting suicide."  That was the sum
total of the sympathy I got).
	So I feel like I'm up against a wall, with very few places to
turn. At the very least, I might have to drop out of school and work
for a coupla years. I've got a pretty good network of friends who can
offer some emotional support. But right now I feel like I'm going out
of my mind.  I've barely been able to sleep for the last few days.
	I just had to get all of that out. Now, I just have to wait
and see what happens, and then figure out what to do.
-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Huntsville? Hmmmm.... (was Re: Introduction)
Date: 20 Aug 1992 14:14:58 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <41747@ogicse.ogi.edu> 
markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:

[Jeff wrote:]
> >Oh puhleeze!  Surely the Motss Grand Faggot has never ventured 
> >to Huntsville, Alabama?!
>
> Jeff, dear, you should know that if nothing else, the Motss Grand 
> Faggot gets around.

But not, as of yet, to Huntsville, Alabama.  Nor, recently, to the
glorious Pacific Northwest.  [Note to Steve Dyer: What's with the 
piece of linoleum over John Dorrance's love muscle?]

> Smooches to Arne-dear.

Smooches to *you*, Mark.

Arne


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Subject: Re: AIDS speech Wed @9PM EST Republican Convention
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:25:34 GMT

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
: carlton@husc10.harvard.edu (david carlton) writes:
:  >Indeed.  And tonight we got to see people say over and over again
:  >about how wonderful it was that we got to see the human side of Bush,
:  >as if humanity had much to do with the way he were running the
:  >country...
: 
: Earlier in the day I heard an interview soundbite in which Bush
: said that the Democrats claimed to be thinking of the people, but
: said they would raise taxes, thereby demonstrating that he cannot
: distinguish people from property.  Maybe this explains something. 
: 
:  >Speaking of convention stuff, was everybody as thrilled as I was to
:  >see Clinton gleefully point out that he had never said that he
:  >supported the right of same-sex couples to marry or adopt?
: 
: I missed this, but it doesn't surprise me.  Still, I prefer the
: influences surrounding Clinton to those surrounding Bush, by a lot.
: 

I'd like to point out that he did not say that he did not support
these things, he only said he didn't *say* he supported them. 

Did I really just say that?


Kathy
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay names
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:09:16 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <alices@vadier.gr.osf.org> emcmanus@gr.osf.org
(Eamonn McManus) writes:

>Incidentally my three biggest crushes in secondary school all had
>names in the list above -- indeed, two of them were Christophers.
>Unfortunately I've no reason to suppose, even with the rose-rimmed
>regard of ripe retrospection, that any of them were gay.

(Really rillingly written rich rhetoric!)

Having had major love affairs with (in order) Louis, David,
Alan, Arvid, Allyn, Don, Dean, Tom, Ron, Steve, Steve,
Steve, and Roger, plus wonderful but less earth-shaking
affairs with Helen, Nino, Alan, John, Jimmy, Mary Ellen,
Lila, Lloyd, Paul, Harry, Ray, Randy, and Eric, plus a small
host of others, I spot no gay names in there.  The women
were straight, the men include people who are gay, bi, and
straight.

Not directly on the topic, I *despised* the name Jess until
I was about 20.  It was my father's name, and I certainly
didn't like him.  I didn't much care for being Jesse James
(the outlaw; my middle name is in fact Claire) in grade
school or other variants later on.  When I was 18, I looked
into changing it legally.  If I'd gone ahead with that, it
would have been Paul.

But somewhere along the line I decided that if your last
name was something common as dirt like Anderson, having a
less common first name might be a virtue.  Jess (as opposed
to Jesse) had in my ear a kind of outdoor twang to it, which
I saw as good.  I certainly wouldn't change it now for the
world, though I'd consider changing my last name if the
right man wanted to marry me (just kidding).  Besides the
name Jess, though hardly the present writer, is pretty
butch, I think.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: jclander@maestro.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Responses to people dying
Date: 21 Aug 92 12:51:20 GMT
Reply-To: jclander@maestro.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va

In article <41735@ogicse.ogi.edu>, markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug20.151517.24796@macc.wisc.edu>
|> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
|> >
|> >At any rate, a good condidate date for ceremonially
|> >remembering Rob would be either March 9 (birthday) or August
|> >13 (deathday).
|> 
|> I would suggest that as a way to remember everyone, we choose
|> National Coming Out Day.

[Mounting soapbox, foaming at the mouth]

No! No! Please, no!  A day is a good idea, but don't use one already 
dedicated to a certain purpose.  You're hitting all of my buttons
because I think we need to maintain at least a theoretical distinction
between queers (in this case, I'm using "queer" as shorthand for lesbian,
gay, bisexual, etc.) and AIDS. As far as I'm concerned queer activism/
liberation and AIDS movements are related, but distinct.  (I'd like the
second to disappear because it isn't needed, and it needs to expand
to include non-queer people with AIDS.)

Potential flame deterrent:  You may argue that the issue isn't just
AIDS (see the next quoted paragraph below) but a general memorial day for
queerfolk.  But then why co-opt a day which already has queer 
significance?

[Removing foam, descending.]

|> 
|> >A kind of middle course might be to designate a certain day
|> >(Rob's birthday seems an obvious choice) on which the cohort
|> >would devote special energy to remembering not only Rob, but
|> >every LGB person whose loss has affected them deeply.
|> 
|> Yes, this would be very useful and healing.

More practical, perhaps, too.  There have been and will be others, unfortunately.
And how do you honor someone else whose death may (will?) evoke the same
strength of reaction as Rob's did?  It could, and probably will, happen.
Also, it will give the day permanence, even after most of the posters to the
group are people who missed Rob completely.

Using his birthday seems OK.  You could also choose another date with
more general queer significance.  The day _before_ National Coming Out Day?
That might make sense, although it is chosen by analogy with certain Christian
holidays.  (Halloween before--I forget which--All Saints' or All Souls' day
is a prominent example.)

Julian C. Lander
jclander@mitre.org
From: harris@currituck.cs.unc.edu (Trey Harris)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sarcasm
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:14:04 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <1992Aug18.103311.29099@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>In article <1992Aug17.220723.12024@tandon.com>
>tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett) writes:

>>In article <14509@borg.cs.unc.edu> harris@bodie.cs.unc.edu
>>(Trey Harris) writes:

>>>This is always the way, isn't it?  Every lesbigay I know is at one
>>>extreme or the other on sarcasm.  I, like many of my friends, view
>>>sarcasm as a high art form.  Yet, some (less I believe than the other
>>>group) never get sarcasm, period.
>
>>I would thank you to keep your bigotted
>>remarks to yourself.  

:-P

>Are you so sure you're using the word "bigot" correctly?  I
>don't think you are.  It's too important an idea to get
>trivialized with the notion of "sarcasm bigot."

>>We are all not grouped together at any
>>extreme of the "scale" like a bunch of scared children or
>>rats.  We come in all shapes, forms, and colors, so why
>>wouldn't we have varied levels of sarcasm...

>Do you suppose he'd deny that?  He said, "everyone I know."

Thank you, Jess.  That's why I asked, "Has anyone else noticed this?"
I was asking in a purely inquisitive manner.  I've always wondered
if any personality traits of any kind might be tied to being gay.
Everyone has traits which are stereotypes of _every_ group, whether
they belong to it or not.  Is there any truth to any of our
stereotypes?

Or are there traits which are not stereotypical which occur in higher
percentages in lesbigay people (or just gay men, or just bisexual
men/women, or just lesbians)?  What I'm asking, I suppose, is:  is
homosexuality as a personal trait independent from EVERY other trait,
physical, mental, or emotional?

My guess is that it is.  But again, I'm just inquisitive, and I'd like
to hear what others think.

Sorry I ruffled your feathers, Tom.  It wasn't intended.  *sigh*
Maybe I should just take a vacation from motss.  I don't seem to be
able to make my point in under three pages...

Trey Harris
Stranger in a Strange Thread
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Friday, 14 Aug 1992 02:08:56 EDT
From: Naz Reyes <NAZ@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
 <l85t18INN2h2@mizar.usc.edu> <aa3m55j.rich@netcom.com>
 <92224.043758NAZ@auvm.american.edu> <17471@autodesk.COM>

In article <17471@autodesk.COM>, randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark) says:
>
>In article <92224.043758NAZ@auvm.american.edu> NAZ@auvm.american.edu
>(Naz Reyes) writes:
>>Is it because I'm a cute, masculine,
>>Filipino guy that dress like a normal straight boy, as opposed to an
>>Asian-madame-butterfly-lookalike-bottom-queen that looks like he
>>just waltz out of Lord and Taylor's shopping store or something???
>>Maybe I'm scaring the hell out all Americans, black and white, since
>>they just can't accept the fact that I'm Asian, I'm masculine,
>>I don't camp, I dance very well, but I don't dress to impress.
>
>        Naz has taken heat on this statement as sounding
>        either egotistical or down on drag queens (or both).
>
>        I didn't read it that way at all, but rather as a
>        comment on how many gayfolk -- particularly those
>        who like to chase East Asian men (of whom I know a
>        fair sampling) -- look at their potential objects
>        of affection.
>
>        As such, it made perfect sense to me and wasn't
>        offensive at all -- certainly less offensive
>        than men who expect Asians to be *only*
>        boyish/submissive/fashion-bunnies/born-abroad,
>        or whatever.
>
>        Not knowing Naz personally, I can't say which way
>        he meant it.  I think he deserves the benefit of
>        the doubt, though.
>
>        -R

This guy deserves the most understanding, most intuitive, most HUMAN,
award in the whole soc.motss or maybe even the whole planet :-)
Hats off to ya, Randy.

And for those who had misread and misunderstood my whole posting, accept
my apologies and sympathy.  And for those who are effeminate gay men
who I offended, please accept my apologies.  I do not, and never meant
to offend you guys.  I was just making a point.  If people would only
try to *really listen* and *really think* about what people are saying
and feeling there would be better understanding between all people in
the world.

-Naz

>
>        P.S. I am back on the Net (I almost said, "in circulation,"
>        but I haven't been out of circulation, just away from a
>        newsfeed).  Greetings, all.  -R
>
>
>--
>There is a sad gaiety in our love, and though we have more wit
>than Sunday lovers by the water's edge, our wit attracts misfortune.
>                                                        -- Genet
>Randy Clark                     {}!autodesk.com!randyc
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Powell's Bookstore
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:49:01 GMT
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA

In article <1992Aug8.134553.29185@cis.ohio-state.edu> amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
>i mean, let's talk sluts for books here!

As long as you don't read for money, anyway.  That's really perverted.

>i have sold off whole subject areas (most of the photography and art
>books, all of the true crime), donated dozens of boxes to the friends
>of the libraries at ohio state, and given elizabeth large pieces of
>the collection (almost all the mysteries, a lot of the french
>literature; elizabeth now has a house in mountain view that has walls
>of books everywhere - maybe it's genetic).

Maybe, maybe not.  Giving up a book for me tends to be like selling
off an artery or two, though I have conditioned myself into being able
to cope with it (I HAVE to, considering how often I have moved and
will continue to do so).  I suspect it's nature more than nurture --
sorry to dismay all those of you who were hoping to win out the
argument with the literaphobes on the basis of immutability.

Both Elisa and I are packrats for the printed page, having grown up in
houses with walls and walls of books.  My parents' brownstone in
Brooklyn had a two-story living room, one wall filled to bursting with
musty books.  When I was very small and my parents were out of the
house, I'd be a very naughty boy (I think I hear Grandma...) and climb
up the library ladder all the way to the ceiling -- just thinking
about the distance now makes me dizzy -- and peer at the odd and
eccentric volumes stored up there.  I get hard these days just
thinking about the *BLACK* *LEATHER* *BINDINGS*.  Ooh.

Now that my collegiate career is close to culmination, I'm finding the
time to READ the books I own, not just buy them.  Susie Bright's
reader went through my fingers in a few hours all told, and the
Langston Hughes collection I bought used promises to do the same.

Now if I can do something about my vinyl fetish ...

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Why Benson Hedges #2 gay cigarette?
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:51:41 GMT
Organization: 3L Ltd, 86/92 Causewayside, Edinburgh EH9 1PY, UK


In article <63984@cup.portal.com>,
Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:

> The aug 13 Wall Street Journal says that cigarette companies are
> targeting gays after they found out that Benson & Hedges is the
> #2 cigarette for gays even though it's nowhere near the top ten
> for all men. Says Overlooked opinions found 27% of gays smoked,
> about the same as 25% overall by other studies. Is the popularity
> of B&H from the fact that it was marketed as a woman's cigarette,
> and a large number of gay smokers are effeminite? Some claim that
> gays are no more likely to be effeminate than non-gays, but I
> don't trust that claim, especially with the gay brain stuff that
> says some of these behaviors are hard-wired. ( I don't buy that 
> all gays are that way - gay seems to encompass a wide variety of
> non-typical sexual categories)
> 
> Anyways, thought you folks would find it interesting.

Fascinating!  Fascinating!

Anyhow, I'm able to bring you the *full* story, which
you can see in the figures under:

-------------------------------------------------------------

              B&H  Ethel  Balloons  Gay     Boy     Nicaragua
                   Merman           Brains  Scouts

Asians          1     2       3       4       5        6

Effeminites     7     8       9      10      11       12

Lesbian        13    14      15      16      17       18
Draftees

BHPITRL        19    20      21      22      23       24

Scottish       25    26      27      28      29       30
Bisexuals

Libertarians   31    32      33      34      35       36

Employees of   37    38      39      40      41       42
SUN

Normal Acting  43    44      45      46      47       48
Masculine Guys

People with    49    50      51      52      53       54
No Butts

--------------------------------------------------------------

I think this prove that Asians like Benson and Hedges 18
times less than Lesbian Draftees approves Nicaraguan new
sodomy law.  On the other hand, Libertarians are three times
more likely to go up in a balloon than Effeminites are to
join Scouts.  And five times as many People with No Butts
like Ethel Merman as Effeminites have a Gay Brain. 

This figures hold many truths about Gay condition in our
country today.  Study them and you folks could get help
overcome your Problem.  Instead, only PC people must post
nonsense which no statistics (approved by government)
supports.  Really stupid. 

Why you people are so interested to conceal these facts. 

I'm only trying be informative.

--John
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans)
Subject: Re: New queer terminology (was Re: The media, again)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:12:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.095854.27119@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <ROBERTL.92Aug17193813@luciano.Stanford.EDU>
>robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper) writes:
>
>>- Bob (enjoying the thought that as a defecting Republican I will be
>>doing double damage to Georgie this November)
>
>Honey, that's not a defect, that's a Good Idea.  I hope
>millions of Republicans will join you.

Well, I certainly have!  Now I just have to register so my vote
will count (just moved--don't nag).

El
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Whizzzzzzz ( was Re: Introduction)
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:51:35 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) wrote:
>I don't have air conditioning at home.  Last night at midnight
>it was over 90 in my bedroom.  Can you guess why I'm just a wee 
>bit cranky today?

You missed celebrating Mae West's 100th birthday Monday?

>>  Bzzt. Too hot. How can you screw in heat like this?
> 
>I can't even *think* about screwing in heat like this.

Oh my.  That is serious.  This brings up the images of the supposedly hot
love scenes in movies in which, after orgasm, the protagonists are dripping
with sweat.  It looks good in the movies at least.

>You mean Sim might have been making *fun* of us?  What nerve!

Anyone can come visit in the middle of February when it is sunny and 85F.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold