HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: weimer@spud.kodak.COM (Gary Weimer 726-3370)
Subject: Re: Nose-In Hovering
Reply-To: weimer@pixel.kodak.com
Organization: Eastman Kodak Co.; Rochester, NY
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 02:59:53 GMT


In article <1992Oct6.151341.15556@news.clarkson.edu>,
rob@phoenix.erc.clarkson.edu (Rob Logan) writes:
|> > Would some of the experienced helicopter pilots please post or mail me
|> > your procedure for learning nose-in hover/forward flight?
|> I can do it automaticly now, but I rember my trick was repeating
|> outloud:  "where is it going... where is it going.." just like "low
|> wing" in an aircraft. then move the stick in the direction that the
|> heli is going/drifting.

Since I've just recently been able to go from tail-in to nose-in without
landing and walking around the plane (I have to spin it quickly since I
can't fly it sideways yet...), I can well remember getting started.

Basically, I started nose-in the same way I started tail-in hover. My
"training wheels" are two dowels which I rubber-band to the skids. At
each end of both dowels are wiffle balls which are held in place by
washers and cotter pins and can spin freely. Place the helicopter on a
flat surface (I used a large piece of cardboard) and give it just enough
power to make it very lite, but not enough to get it off the ground.
This will allow the chopper to drift (as it would in hover) and respond
to your inputs; yet it slows the response enough for you to correct
mistakes before things get too out of hand. If things do get out of
hand, you can pull the throttle/collective all the way down; since
you're already on the ground, you don't have to worry about tail-boom
strikes and the like.

An important part of this type of training is to set a limit as to how
far you will let the chopper go before it's gone too far. In my case, I
had to keep it on the cardboard. If you go beyond this area, land and
CARRY the chopper back to the middle of the area. Don't let yourself be
convinced that you're in control enough to avoid that tree :-). If
things are out of control enough for you to get outside of your
pre-defined area, they're to far out of control for you to fly back.
Besides, trying to fly back onto cardboard will only result in the
cardboard being blown up into the rotors. (I sliced the cardboard with
the tail blades, but luckily didn't get the cardboard into the rotors...)

Gary Weimer (weimer@pixel.kodak.com)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda)
Subject: Re: Where did the single-stick transmitter go?
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:30:53 GMT

In article <35829@cbmvax.commodore.com> dean@cbmvax.UUCP (Jeff Dean - LSI Test) writes:
|Anybody know why single-stick radios seem to have died away?  I haven't seen
|one in a magazine or catalog in years, and only one guy (an expert flyer) at
|the local field uses them.  It seems to me a more natural way to fly, although
|I haven't actually tried it.  How about pros/cons for this style of stick?

The only manufacturer I know who still makes single-stick radios is Ace.  In
1976 or thereabouts I flew pattern (a Mach One) using a single-stick ProLine.
I loved it.  After learning on Mode II, I felt that the single stick was MUCH
more intuitive, which allowed me to learn to be calmer and more collected when
competing.  Definitely a plus.

The only minus to the configuration that I can see is that all three axes of
control are coupled to one stick, which makes independant control inputs that
much harder.  

At some point in there, I flew in a contest with Rhett Miller, the at-that-time
national champion, and he told me about the merits of Mode I, which he flew
exclusively.  Mode I is where the elevator and rudder are on the left stick,
and the ailerons and throttle on the right.  This allows complete independence
of aileron and elevator motion during rolls and such.  But by the same token,
it tends to make rudder corrections during loops slightly more difficult.

So I got the old aileron trainer out, changed the gimbals around on the Kraft 
radio, and taught myself to fly Mode I.  I only flew one pattern contest that 
way, and although I thought my knife-edge was improved, I don't think I ever
worked up to my potential with that configuration.  I went back to Mode II
when I took up sailplanes, soon after.

The only explanation that I can suggest as to why SS died out is that there
is a VERY low demand for it. The only people who EVER used SS radios were the 
pattern guys, and only a small minority of them.  I bet Futaba or Airtronics 
just can't justify the cost of producting a different radio package for a 
market of 200 or so.

Ace, on the other hand, seems to be more of the idea that a good product is
a good product, regardless of low sales figures.  <- (pro-Ace bias alert :-)

	Dave Svoboda, Palatine, IL
From: mkfeil@bcrki9.bnr.ca (Max Feil)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: Radio interference - 1 more case
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:54:06 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Bell-Northern Research

In article <6181.2ad984f9@hayes.com> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
>I fail to understand all the mathematical complexity of RC radio interference
>problems. While it is true that intermodulation products could cause a problem,
>and that certain mathematical relationships could cause unwanted signals to
>pop up in the IF, there are much simpler explanations that are not considered.
>
>You experience above may have been simply that the transmitter you flew too
>close to overloaded your receiver. It really wouldn't matter what frequency
>he was on, just as long as the signal saturated the front end (or the
>intermediate stages) of the receiver. Perhaps the signal got into the
>servo wiring. Who knows? 

I know what you are saying, and it is possible. However in my case the ground
tests showed that there was a definite incompatibility between the two radios.
The other guy's channel 50 transmitter affected my channel 16 receiver MUCH
more than it should have. My original thought was that something must be out
of tune or not working right for this to happen. If everybody's radio worked
this way we would have a real problem! In my previous article I was merely
suggesting that perhaps the radios were working to the best of their ability,
but that an artifact of the known problems with single conversion receivers
could explain this particular interference.

>I had a guy at the flying field tell me not to stand too close to 
>another transmitter (I was within 10 feet). He indicated that if you stand
>closer than 20 feet, it causes intermod.
>
>Well, I KNOW that intermod is a RECEIVER phenominon.

Well, perhaps what you KNOW is not all there is to it. I suggest you read
Call Orr's "Radio Spectrum" article in the Sept 1990 issue of RCM. He does
a fairly extensive test of "transmitter generated 3IM", complete with 
spectrum analyzer pictures. I think that Cal Orr KNOWS more in this case...

Cheers, and good flying!
Max
--
Max Feil  mkfeil@bnr.ca | Disclaimer:
Bell-Northern Research  |   What do I know? I'm just a Nerd on the Big Ranch.
P.O Box 3511 Station C, |
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.| "Enrich The Soil, Not EveryBody's Goal" Peter Gabriel
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: gizzi@rtsg.mot.com (James A. Gizzi)
Subject: Complete Flying outfit for sale
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: chi
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:20:12 GMT



The following is for sale due to the simple fact that I have too many hobbies
according to my wife.  This plane is perfect, only been flown twice, and not
even bumped on landing.  It comes complete with everything needed to fly. 
It must be purchased complete.  I am not interested in selling just the radio.
I've got quite a bit of experience building and flying, so you can be assured
that there are no hidden defects on this plane.  This is the perfect setup for
someone interested in getting started or moving up from a trainer!
This is supposed to be going to the Chicago area only but seems to wander on
its own. Please note that I live in a Chicago suburbso it would be hard for 
anyone from out of state to drop by and see it.

Thanks.

Goldberg Anniversary Edition J-3 Cub (Built)
	Blue Sunburst Pattern
	Clipped wing
	OS Max 61SF Engine
	
Airtronics VG6P Radio (New in box)
	Complete with recharger and NiCads
	4 servos (installed in plane)
	PCM/PPM radio (meets new narrow band requirements)

Extras
	1Gallon of fuel
	Electric Fuel pump
	Manual fuel pump (liked it better than the electric)
	12V 6Ah NiCad for pump, starter, and glow plug
	Electric starter
	2 extra glow plugs
	various building materials (hinges, balsa, monocoat etc.)

Will sell all for only $450.
This entire setup cost well over $650, not including the MANY hours spent
on construction.

Also for SALE:

Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 (New in box)  $75

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Gizzi             "Western Society needs to prioritize life-support
sqa.rtsg.mot.com       systems and to question its commitment to Materialism"
                                Audrey Shenandoah - Onandaga "Elder"
From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: How to get started
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:35:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: phri.1992Oct11.193530.10282
Organization: New York University, School of Medicine


	I know, this is probably a FAQ, but I don't see a FAQ posting, so
what the heck....

	I was watching some people fly RC planes today and decided it looked
fun and was something I wanted to try.  What do I do next?  Presumably there
are some sort of starter kits I can get that aren't too expensive and easy
to fly?  How much should I expect to spend for an initial investment?  I
also have a hankering to try an RC sailboat; how much, if any of my
investment will I be able to re-use, i.e. are the radios the same?
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: miked@syscon.rn.com (Mike DeMetz)
Subject: Re: one handed control + a foot
Organization: Syscon Corporate Headquarters - South Bend, IN USA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:12:09 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

There is know reason you cannot use a two axis joystick type
transmitter. They were used before the pistol type became popular.
Make sure you get a land freq. (75Mhz). You can also get trays for
the transmitters that hang from the neck or shoulders.

Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Alcyon 2M glider
Distribution: world
Organization: Technology Research Group, SAIC
From: jam@marge (John McNeil)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 00:42:12 GMT

I have decided to build a competitive 2M thermal glider with flaps and ailerons,
although I don't plan on getting a computer radio.  I have looked around, and
poured of the Northeast Sailplanes Catalog (BTW this is a great deal for $5 US,
it has lots of kits, and good articles.).  I think I have decided to get the
Alcyon 2M because it looks like a lot of performance for the ~$100 US.

Has anyone out there built one, or seen one fly?  Do you have any tips on
building or flying it?

Thanks in advance,
 
-- 
John
jam@trg.saic.com
NeXTmail preferred
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: egdorf@zaphod.lanl.gov (Skip Egdorf)
Subject: Re: Fiberglass, Laminating vs. Finish Resin
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:11:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.194401.21473@newsgate.sps.mot.com> shade@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Douglas Shade) writes:

   Hi folks, I thought the RC crowd might have some experience in
   the use of fiberglass.

   I recently purchased a fiberglass repair kit for my beat up old
   VW's bashed Baja fenders (not RC, full sized car, well almost full 
   sized anyway :} ).

   I used the laminating resin and cloth as directed.  It says to use 
   a finishing resin or the repair area will remain tacky.  They were
   right, the repaired area is still tacky (a week after repair).  If/
   when I use the finish coat, will all the layers of the repair job
   "cure" to the same hard consistency as the rest of the fender?

Polyester resins normally "Set" with a tacky surface like this.
The laminating resin is "normal" in this sense. The finishing resin
has a wax included that comes to the surface as the resin heats and
cures. This wax allows the surface of the finishing resin to be
smooth and non-tacky.

The problem is that if you wish to add additional coats or lay-ups
the laminating resin may have additional layers layed on after it is
cured. The finishing resin must be sanded or chemically treated to
remove the wax surface before additional laminations can be performed.

I would recommend an epoxy resin rather than a polyester resin for RC
model work.

   When I sand down the repair area, will I rediscover the tacky laminations?
   Thanks for your assistance.

Sanding the tacky surface is difficult.

   This was my first experience with f-glass.  It was kinda fun.  Are there
   RC boat kits which require glass.  I'd like to try that sometime.

RC sailplanes tend to use a lot of epoxy over foam. If you want to
get more hard-core, you use a more exotic material such as E-glass, Kevlar,
or Carbon Fiber instead of plain fiberglass. Then you buy a vacuum pump so
that you can get all that nasty heavy resin out of the layup. Then you
buy an oven so that you can heat-cure the layups. If you become a true
fanatic, you begin to keep records of cure-time vs. heat. vs. various
strength properties of the finished part. At this point you will be
eligible to bid on government contracts for YF-22 fuselage parts.

If you want to proceed on this tortuous path, check out an RCM for adds
that mention carbon-fiber, foam, and vacuum pumps.

					Skip Egdorf
					hwe@lanl.gov
From: frank@evax2.engr.arizona.edu (Frank Manning)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: Electric Motors/Gears/Props
Date: 12 Oct 92 00:18:15 GMT
Reply-To: frank@evax2.engr.arizona.edu
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona, College of Engineering and Mines, Tucson

In article <1992Oct11.164056.22514@bmerh85.bnr.ca> mkfeil@bcrki9.bnr.ca (Max
Feil) writes:

>>In article <sepTKke00iVgQ2OhdN@andrew.cmu.edu> ck3i+@andrew.cmu.edu
>>(Christopher Kristof) writes:
>>
>>
>>However, I have not been able to find a product that has better than a 1:1
>>thrust to weight ratio. (taking into account the batteries needed to power
>>the motor)
>
>This is probably true of props, but rotors will create greater lift. Look
>into the various electric helicopters that are available such as the Kalt
>Whisper or the Kyosho Concept EP. 

I agree -- rotors are generally the best way to get above a 1:1 thrust to
weight ratio.

It also depends on how much endurance you want at that thrust level. I am
told it is possible to get more than 1:1 T/W with a propeller if you drain
the batteries at a high enough rate.

As one example, VL Products advertises that their HY-42 motor (47 g) with a
B-34L battery (4 x 110 mAh, 34 g) can produce a vertical takeoff at an
airframe weight of 42 g.

I haven't tried it -- I'm just reading the catalog.

-- Frank Manning                                   --
-- College of Engineering and Mines                --
-- Civil Engineering 100, University of Arizona    --
-- Tucson, AZ  85721  frank@evax2.engr.arizona.edu --
From: mwp@ms9.mis.semi.harris.com (Mark W. Poole)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Black Baron Epoxy Paint Questions
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:48:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: mlb.1992Oct13.184812.4342
Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL

I'm finishing my Goldberg Cub with the Coverite Black Baron Epoxy paint
over Coverite material, and plan to put two coats of clear over the 
color coats.  A few questions:

1) Can I put the clear coat OVER the decals and pinstriping to seal 
it all, or should I save the decals and pinstriping for last?? 

2) The instructions say "...dries in 7 days in ideal conditions, and 
if unsure, wait 30 days".  I didn't know this when I bought the stuff, 
or I may not have done it.  Does it REALLY take that long?????  Should 
I plan to NOT work on it for a WEEK after I paint it??

3) The can also states '..apply additional coats withing 5-10 
minutes...do not apply wet coats.'.  What can this possibly mean?  If it 
takes 7 days to dry, how can I apply a second coat within 5-10 minutes 
and it not be wet?


Thanks,

Mark.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Mudblaster Gears
From: doachs@next-1.gac.edu (Dan A Oachs)
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:23:31 -0600
Distribution: usa


My brother owns a Tamia Mudblaster and just recently the gearbox has  
been making noises as if the gears were stripping.  So I then  
proceeded to take the gearbox apart.  After finding nothing wrong, I  
regreased the gears and following the instructions, put the truck  
back together.  The noise has stopped for a little while , but then  
it came back.  I did what I had done before, only this time it did  
not work.  I'm wondering if there is any way to correct this.  Please  
send me some info. 

	doachs@next-6.gac.edu

	Thankyou

--
--Dan Oachs
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: seanp@seanp.btv.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Hi-Start 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 13:23:51 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.037 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: seanp@seanp.btv.ibm.com
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

Thanks for the info on the hi-start.  Used it this weekend with great results.  Just pulled back and 
aimed the nose up slightly and let go.  It pulled glider up about 400ft.  Did this for 3 hours with 
great results.    Thanks again for the information and the interesting perspectives. 

------------------------------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sean P. Reilly                                                  |      I'm feeling MUCH better now....                           
IBM Corporation - Burlington , Vermont  |
------------------------------------------------------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mhart@blackjack.dt.navy.mil (Michael Hart)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Wanted/ available /  and about my new plane!
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:30:12 GMT
Distribution: na

Well, I just gotta tell somebody, and you folks are the lucky ones!

Went to a Swap Meet this past weekend, and bought myself a beautiful,
superbly built Sig? 4-40.  I have never seen such craftsmanship in 
a sport plane; it rivals the best of any scale plane _I've_
ever seen.  A real steal at $95.

'Course, my wife says "Why do you need another plane?"  (I''ve got
a Lanier Caprice currently and an Ultrasport 60 on the boards.)
What exactly is the correct answer to that query?  I mumbled something
about this or that and she turned away shaking her head.  :-)

Anyway.  I have an old OS 45F that I was gonna put in it.  I had broken
the ring on this engine when cleaning it a while back.  I broke the
replacement ring too.  Grrr.  
Anybody want this?   Say $25 + shipping?  Or, trade toward.....

I'm looking for an OS 46FSR/abc or an OS Surpass48.  Anyone got one 
they don't have a need for right now?  I'm flexible on trades, etc.

Let me know if you have any ideas.


--
|   Michael G. Hart                   mhart@blackjack.dt.navy.mil    |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|     You think _I_ speak for the government or the navy?  HAH!      |
| Aviation, computers, quality improvement, Northern Exposure, money |
From: v064myby@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Christophe J Quaranta)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: Glow Plugs
Keywords: Glow Plug
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:38:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Oct11.163256.22526@alf.cooper.edu>, mark@alf.cooper.edu (Mark_Balch-(EE'95)) writes...
>Hello,
> 
>I'm a new commer to the world of RC flying and am looking for information 
>on reliable glow plugs.  I've heard good things about Rossi and OS.  Rossi
>is expensive though and OS doesn't exactly look cheap.  Are there any
>alternatives or should I just bite the bullet and buy a bag of OS glow
>plugs?  Thanks for your input.
> 
>Mark
		
	I've tried Fox & OS plugs. My suggestion is go with Fox.  They are
less expensive & have an idle bar.  You'll get much better low end performance
with idle bar plugs than with plain plugs.
						
	If you're just starting flying, worring about glow plugs is the least
of your problems.			
				
							Latre,
							Chris.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: mmarks@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Matthew D Marks)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: friction
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:03:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: top.9210082003.AA15546
Organization: The Ohio State University
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Just a note.

A tail dragger with a music wire skid ain't worth sh*t on a smooth concrete 
surface!

i.e. Very low coefficient of kinetic friction.

At least IT was only the engine mount.

Please don't post anything regarding my stupidity.  :-)   ;)

me

-- 
=======================================================================
Matthew D. Marks                  ||"Standing in the middle of the road
Mechanical Engineering Department || is very dangerous: you get knocked
The Ohio State University         || down by traffic from both sides."
e-mail: marks.23@osu.edu          ||              - Margaret Thatcher
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: jimt@carson.u.washington.edu (James Thompson)
Subject: Re: Micro Servos
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:20:37 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.125124.3276@linus.mitre.org> mmcevill@mitre.org (Michael A. McEvilley) writes:
>
>Coreless servos have precise centering, standard servos will center at a 
>point somewhere in the 'vicinity' of the true center point. 
>
>Michael 

Patently untrue.  Servos operate by measuring the difference between the
position of the potentiometer connected to the output shaft, and the desired
position, as determined from the receiver pulses.  The bigger this difference,
the more power applied to the motor.  In order to conserve power, there is
an error threshold built in to the design of the servo.  If the error is
less than this amount, then the servo is "close enough" in the eyes of the
servo's designer.  This value is strictly by the choice of the designer, and
has nothing to do with whether the motor is coreless.

Jim






Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: DEVILBISS@OCTAVE.LARC.NASA.GOV (Zaphod Beeblebrox)
Subject: Re: Hi-Start
Reply-To: DEVILBISS@OCTAVE.LARC.NASA.GOV (Zaphod Beeblebrox)
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:52:03 GMT

One hint:  Don't over control the plane on the way up.  If the 
plane is set up right, ie . . . flys straight and level, then 
you shouldn't have to do much of anything.  A little up elevator 
can be useful.

        If we were not crazy, we would go insane.
        If we could not laugh, we would go insane!     J. Buffett
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc