From: SG.MML@isumvs.iastate.edu (M. Loughin)
Subject: Re: joint post on discrimination, long!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:16:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.172412.3960@reed.edu>,
turner@reed.edu (another face in the mirror) writes:
>Caithelin is at it again...
>
>>[Marie]
>>True, you are not a peer of the President.  But you *are* the peer
>>of men at your social level.  Let's use a very trivial example.
>>I play volleyball.  I'm okay at it.  I have female friends who
>>are excellent players.  When they play with men, most of whom
>>are not as good at it as the woman, many men will virtually push
>>the woman out of the way so they can hit the ball.  It seems
>>obvious to the man that his bad play on the ball *must* be better
>>than anything the woman can do.  He assumes this as a man.  He
>>would not do this to a fellow man.  This is a trivial example,
>>but it gives you a clue as to ongoing attitudes among your peers.
>>I have seen this very example happen more times than I can count.
>
>"I have to admit I've seen this example many times, had it happen to me for
>that matter...my response, "You hit a ball in my area one more time and I'm
>going to elbow you in an unpleasant place, now knock it off."  And yes, I've
>said this to people, even people who are better players than myself.  But

"Heh, heh, you can play on my team, anytime, Caithelin!!  This
is approximately how I've handled it, and it generally works.
I usually play on a team with my husband.  If one of the other
women is so wronged and is too timid or lacks confidence to
protest, he usually takes the offending male aside and explains
things to him."

>I've also seen the opposite."  She stops to grab a glass of lemonade before
>she continues.  "Some of you know I was raised by my father.  My parents
>split when I was very young.  Since my dad had a better situation (a farm in
>the country) I stayed with him.  The number of times my grandparents in
>particular, made decisions about my raising that they wouldn't have done
>if my mom had been around are uncountable.  Their assumption was that he was
>male, and therefore completely incompetent to raise a child.  For example,
>for a couple of years before I started school my dad made sure my hair
>didn't get cut and grew it out so that once school started he could braid it
>every morning and it would stay neat and out of the way for the whole day.
>(Makes perfect sense to me, most parents don't think that far in advance.)
>Two weeks or less before I started first grade I spent the weekend with my
>grandparents.  They insisted (forced me) to let them cut my hair because it
>would be a mess and Pedr (my dad) wouldn't know what to do with it once
>school started because he was male.  This kind of thing has happened many
>times since then (although they've never since insisted I cut my hair).  And
>generally they've backed off some.  Especially when they realized I seem to
>be doing better than my cousins who have two parent homes.  (I have two
>parents, they just don't live together.)  But still people have done it."

>"Anyway, enough meandering for now.  Just adding another data point."

>        Lots of love,
>        Caithelin

"I fully expect Tom to be a better parent than me.  I will try
my darndest, but he is more patient (imagine that!) and
kids just like him better.  I'm very thankful for Tom . . ."

--Marie