HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: abraham@iesd.auc.dk (Per Abrahamsen)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: X fascination
Date: 27 Sep 92 17:57:40 GMT
	<id.3RIT.P5A@ferranti.com> <1992Sep24.195925.23312@csx.cciw.ca>
	<klamer.717420586@mi.el.utwente.nl>
	<KETIL.92Sep26001345@spurv.ii.uib.no> <greg.717466874@saltydog>
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University


>>>>> On 26 Sep 92 00:21:14 GMT, greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R.
>>>>> Travis) said:

>-It is easily the most user-definable/customizable windowsystem in
>existence.  Just have a look at the different wm's out there...motif,
>open look, twm, or, if you want all of them in one, gwm :-)

Gregory> Why is this such a big plug?  People are always harping about
Gregory> how "extensible" X is and how that makes it really great.
Gregory> It's a bloody window system, not an end in itself.  We had a
Gregory> guy recently join the company from another environment where
Gregory> they also used X.  The first thing he did when he got here
Gregory> was spend two entire DAYS configuring his X environment so
Gregory> that it was suitable to the equipment and development tools
Gregory> we have here.  I thought computers were supposed to be used
Gregory> to get real work done, not so one can modify one's .Xdefaults
Gregory> all day.

Give them a GUI (like OPEN LOOK) which does not require days to
customize.  Those who wants to spends time customizing can install gwm
themselves.

Gregory> To paraphrase Mills, "X stands between the user and the machine."

X stand between the GUI and the machine.

>-It has a lot of software support.

Gregory> What kind of software are you talking about?  xterm?  xeyes?

WordPervert, Lotus 1-2-3, CoralDraw, etc.   

Gregory> This is another oft-repeated MYTH.  Name a decent word processor that
Gregory> runs under X.

IslandWrite, WordPervert, Asterix, InterLeaf, Framemaker, and many
others. 

Gregory> Now name a decent scanning package.  Name a decent image manipulation
Gregory> tool (and I don't mean AVS).  Name a good spreadsheet.

Lotus 1-2-3, Wingz, Asterix, and others.

Gregory> How about Display Postscript?  Or 8.5?  

Display Postscript is not a window system.  8.5 is not available.
NeWS is dead.

Gregory> As well as personnel.  Both those to support the X
Gregory> environment (can you say "imake?"  Now clean the spittle from
Gregory> your mouth) and the thousands of engineers who, every day,
Gregory> have to get around X to get their work done.

imake?  As in "xmkmf; make; make install"?  I have found X11R5 and X11
aplications with Imakefiles to be the free software most easy to
install.
From: sjc@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Chapin)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: X fascination (was Re: Attempted summary (Was Re: UNIX on a PC clone))
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:02:37 GMT
	<1992Sep24.195925.23312@csx.cciw.ca>
	<1992Sep25.091538.29277@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

}} In article <1992Sep25.091538.29277@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> int177c@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Jae Won) writes:
}} 
}} Also, X is state of the art. Do you seriously think Windows NT will be useful?

X is not close to state-of-the-art.  Display Postscript (NeWS), that's
SOTA.  Something with non-rectangular windows, etc.

X was a fair (not great) choice as a windowing system research tool
back in 1987-88 or so.  These days, it's just like any other
commercial product: a generation behind research.

However, that said, I'm one of those who would try to run X on a
home system, out of laziness.  I use it here at school on my
sparcstation, so I'm used to it.  I'd want to try and duplicate the
environment at home (but I'd give MGR a real look).

sjc@cs.purdue.edu               Steve Chapin           Today's Grammar Lesson:
       "If you loose your arrow, you're likely to lose it in the weeds,"
                       was often heard in days of yore.

               Help stamp out variable length protocol headers!
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: kfoudil@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Foudil-Bey)
Subject: need help with tiny intallation disk for bsd386
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 11:06:46 EDT

I just retrieved the tiny installation disk  from agate.berkeley.edu
. I am supposed to insert the disk in drive a and reboot. My problem
is that my machine does not reboot from disk b and that't the only
31/2 disk. How can I remediate to that problem?
Other problem: Currently DOS manages all my disk space. If I want
to create a partition for Unix, do I have to reformat all of my disk
space or is there an easier way?
thanks

Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: Upholder@uiuc.edu (THE Upholder of Truth)
Subject: Re: Many questions..
Reply-To: Upholder@uiuc.edu (THE Upholder of Truth)
Organization: The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (UIUC)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 05:38:32 GMT

pcolsen@super.org (Peter C Olsen) writes:

>Does either Linux or 386BSD (the PD one) support SCSI drives?

Linux does, provided you have a supported SCSI host adapter.
(currently there are six.. check the FAQ for more info... it can
be found on tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/DOCS/FAQ*)
-- 
Upholder@uiuc.edu (ASCII mail)               THIS IS _NOT_ CCSO'S OPINION!!!
jar42733@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu (NeXT mail)      If It were, It would've had a
anonymus+211@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu (anon)   more important name on it. =)

Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: jwinstea@fenris.claremont.edu (Jim Winstead Jr.)
Subject: Re: UNIX on a PC clone
Keywords: Linux, Coherent, comparisons, *_OPINIONS_* ;^)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, WIBSTR
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:51:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct01.011038.3699@ksmith.uucp> keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith) writes:
>In article <4231@svin09.info.win.tue.nl> alph@win.tue.nl writes:
>
>>compatability: you compile everything yourself, with the gcc-compiler
>>	       what more do you want? You're not dealing with MS-DOS...
>
>C'mon now.  *NO* Commercial software compatability.  If you wanna hack
>LINUX is a hacker's delight.  A lot of people wanna diddle a little
>code, and run some Commercial apps.

Bzzt, try again.  Lawrence Foard has written a Xenix emulator for
Linux.  It's available from tsx-11.mit.edu in pub/linux/ALPHA/xenix
(or something very similar to that).

That will allow you to run commercial Xenix applications.
-- 
                                    +      Jim Winstead Jr. (CSci '95)
                                    |      Harvey Mudd College, WIBSTR
                                    |   jwinstea@jarthur.Claremont.EDU
                                    + or jwinstea@fenris.Claremont.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst)
Subject: Re: Disk Quotas
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:24:53 GMT
Organization: The Programmer's Pit Stop, Ann Arbor MI

In article <1s+p#jm.newman@netcom.com> newman@netcom.com (Charles E Newman) writes:
>            Does anyone know a way to create and enforce disk quotas on Sys V
>compatible systems? I give accounts to members of all my classes in school and

You don't say what release of System V you are using, or what vendor's
version.  SVR4 supports disk quotas in the base OS.  I don't think
there are any SVR3's that support disk quotas.

-- 
Marc Unangst, N8VRH         | "There are two ways to solve this problem:
mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us   | the hard way, and the easy way.  Let's start
                            | with the hard way."
                            |   - W. Scheider, from a Physics lecture
From: fn00@gte.com (Farshad Nayeri)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: X fascination
Keywords: Mac has great image
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:41:11 GMT
	<KETIL.92Sep26001345@spurv.ii.uib.no> <greg.717466874@saltydog>
	<1992Sep26.131534.233@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Waltham, Massachusetts, USA

In article <1992Sep26.131534.233@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> int177c@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Jae Won) writes:

   In article <greg.717466874@saltydog> greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes:
   >In <KETIL.92Sep26001345@spurv.ii.uib.no> ketil@spurv.ii.uib.no (Ketil M. Malde) writes:
   >
   >
   >><Why to choose X>
   >Now name a decent scanning package.  Name a decent image manipulation
                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                          I have seen nothing like XV in either dos or macs.

Try ImageStudio, ColorStudio, Photoshop, or Digital Darkroom. Look at
MacWEEK's GA (Graphic Arts) section to see how designers use these
packages to do great image manipulation. All the above are commercial
packages.  There are public-domain image manipulation packages for the
Mac as well; the one name I can remember is Image from NIH.

--farshad
--
--
Farshad Nayeri                Intelligent Database Systems
fn00@gte.com                  Computer and Intelligent Systems Laboratory
(617)466-2473                 GTE Laboratories, Waltham, MA

  "Our research shows that even double-clicking can be hard concept for
  some new users to grasp." -- John Cook, Apple consumer product manager
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: X fascination (was Re: Attempted summary (Was Re: UNIX on a PC clone))
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:41:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.144100.17502@meaddata.com> sdw@meaddata.com (Stephen Williams) writes:

>A 40Mhz 386DX motherboard is less than $200,

If you want the CPU, of course, it'll generally cost you a little
more.

>16MB ram costs less than
>$500,

So I can spend $500 in order to run a free windowing system?  No
thanks.  What was that you were saying about alternatives, Peter?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: SCO
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:50:06 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to kdenning@portal.hq.videocart.com (Karl Denninger):
>mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) writes:
>>Why not just get SCO and forget it?
>
>Several reasons:
>[most of which I agree with, but:]
>2)	It is a REAL Unix, and not a SVR3 knock-off.

What bogosity!  SCO is just as much "REAL" UNIX as Dell is.

Please stay with facts, Karl; you harm your credibility with crocks
like this one.

>4)	SCO's compiler has always, in my opinion, been brain-dead.

Granted... but GCC2 remedies that problem easily.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
    "My favorite phenomenon is when someone mails me or posts to this
     group, either calling me a newbie or telling me that my postings
     are not relevant to alt.non.sequitur."           -- Matt Welsh
From: john@sdacs.ucsd.edu (John Boyd)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: EISA and 386BSD
Keywords: UNIX, PC compatibles, 32 bit
Date: 1 Oct 92 17:10:02 GMT

Does anyone know whether the current releases of 386BSD or 386i Unix will
even work on an EISA machine?  I haven't actually heard about anyone
who has one up and running.  I have heard from sources that some of
the releases will not run on an EISA machine.  Anyone know otherwise?

jsb
From: alph@wsinfo01.win.tue.nl (G.J.W. Hagenaars)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: UNIX on a PC clone
Keywords: Linux, Coherent, comparisons, *_OPINIONS_* ;^)
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:48:38 GMT
Reply-To: alph@win.tue.nl

keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith) writes:

>Linux is great.  If you have a lot of time, and want to really roll up
>your sleeves and build that car from scratch, AND if you are already
>familiar with UNIX in the first place, go with LINUX.

>If you just want to get a feel for a Unix like operating system, and
>you'd like an easy installation, and one place to go with your problems
>to get it fixed, along with some stability, and binary compatability,
>and some reasonable documentation try Coherent.

easy installation: the SLS-package
one place to go: comp.os.linux
stability: (I really don't know why linux has updates, i haven't found
	    anything wrong with it so far :-)
compatability: you compile everything yourself, with the gcc-compiler
	       what more do you want? You're not dealing with MS-DOS...
documentation: if you print all the README's you'll be busy for the
	       rest of the week (that's printing, the reading will take
	       you an additional two weeks :-).

>Keith Smith

Gert-Jan Hagenaars
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: Reliability of Linux (was UNIX on a PC clone)
From: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Organization: The Man With Ten Cats
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 06:28:32 GMT
Reply-To: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)

In article <1af8v9INNas2@cobra.cs.ubc.ca> edmonds@cs.ubc.ca (Brian Edmonds) writes:
>In article <9210010028.47@rmkhome.UUCP> rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>>I like Linux, and if I had a spare PC that I wasn't using, I would have it
>>up and running here.  I've fooled with it on other systems, like it, but
>>realize that it is not at the state where it can be relied upon to be up
>>24 hours a day.
>Not quite true.  I've been running Linux since May, specificly 0.96c
>for the last few months.  It is extremely stable, and has not crashed
>once on me.  My current output from uptime reads:
>  9:25am  up 25 days, 14:14,  1 user,  load average: 0.17, 0.06, 0.02

Not bad, but I notice that you have stayed at 0.96c, while the mainstream
is up to 0.98.

>Admittedly it is a one user system, but over this time I have started
>and stopped X a number of times, ditto for iscreen3.0, ditto for
>MudOS0.9 (all of which are large apps), and done numerous compiles
>with gcc2.2.2.  Oh, and uucico and backups daily via cron.

It sounds like you have had good luck with it.  I know others who haven't.

If I do get yet another Intel box, I will probably wait until the SCSI
support is a little less flakey.  Some of the people who have upgraded
to 0.98 are reporting serious problems when running with two SCSI drives
in the system.

-- 

Rick Kelly	rmk@rmkhome.UUCP	unixland!rmkhome!rmk	rmk@frog.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: kdenning@portal.hq.videocart.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: SCO
Summary: SCO and more
Organization: VideOcart Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:03:54 GMT

In article <2AC71B9E.64AC@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>According to kdenning@portal.hq.videocart.com (Karl Denninger):
>>mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) writes:
>>>Why not just get SCO and forget it?
>>
>>Several reasons:
>>[most of which I agree with, but:]
>>2)	It is a REAL Unix, and not a SVR3 knock-off.
>
>What bogosity!  SCO is just as much "REAL" UNIX as Dell is.

If you mean "blessed by USL", well, perhaps.  They do, I guess, pay a
license fee.

But I mean "Not V7 technology with proprietary (and standard) enhancements".
Which SCO Unix most certainly is, just as is Xenix.  That's ok -- IF you
know what you're getting.

>Please stay with facts, Karl; you harm your credibility with crocks
>like this one.

See below.

>>4)	SCO's compiler has always, in my opinion, been brain-dead.
>
>Granted... but GCC2 remedies that problem easily.

Why should I have to load someone else's compiler when the one which comes
with the system SHOULD be up to the task?

My definition of "Real Unix", as is many people's, includes "comes with a
working compiler".  SCO, for all its good points (and Xenix had a number of 
them) has always failed on this one.  While I could work around many of the
Xenix compiler problems, I was always left with the feeling "why do I have
to say "-Mlet500" with this frigging piece of code to get it to compile?

It also, these days, includes "has networking support" and "has symlinks,
long filenames, >65k inodes/filesystem" and a number of other "gotta have
its" which have become essential in this day and age of many-hundred
megabyte (or even gigabyte) size filesystems.

SCO has addressed some of this over time; I hear that ODT has most of the
"gotta have its" included.  But that durned compiler.....

Besides - once you use a system which isn't based on SVR3 or earlier, and
see the real performance improvements from the VM enhancements which were
made to SVR4, you wonder why you ever put up with less.

--
Karl Denninger 		Inet:  kdenning@hq.videocart.com
VideOcart Inc.		Voice: (312) 987-5022
From: hcrms@usmi03.midland.chevron.com (Mitchell S. Craig)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: Running X and Xremote on a PC clone, do you do it?  Dell comments
Date: 2 Oct 92 04:11:54 GMT
Reply-To: hcrms@crinoid.chvpkh.chevron.com
Organization: chevron

robertb@cs.washington.edu (Robert Bedichek) writes:
>
> (stuff deleted)
>Side question: what do users of Dell UNIX think of their Dell's version
>of UNIX?  How is the support?  
>
I'm not a Dell user but but have been investigating: I found their
sales and technical staff helpful and easy to reach.

Their SVR4 looks very attractive but unfortunately is only 
available preinstalled on their machines or on
250 MB QIC tape or DAT tape. How many of us can afford those
kind of tape drives for our PCs? (Especially after spending $999.99
on the OS :-}

I'll stick with ESIX for the time being, although it sure
would be nice to have DOS merge and all the gnu stuff.
Can someone point me to the best newsgroup or a FAQ
or an ftp address for f2c? (private reply probably best
since this is really outside the scope of this group).

One other question: Who is currently selling Interactive Unix?
Is it related to the Destiny product that Novell is working
on?

Thanks in advance,
        Mitch
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Subject: Re: X fascination
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:06:14 GMT

In <greg.717466874@saltydog> greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes:

>>-It has a lot of software support.

>What kind of software are you talking about?  xterm?  xeyes?

I guess you don't know X eh :-) Xterm and xeyes are nothing.
Have you ever use 'tgif' or 'xv' ?

Okay, here is a partial list of FREE Xwindows programs 
or programs that support Xwindows :

- tgif (drawing prog. It's really really realy nice. Gotta have it)
- xv (a very powerfull image processing tool)
- ghostscript (PostScript previewer)
- xfig (another nice drawing program)
- xarchie (archie client)
- xgraph (a graph program)
- xgopher (client program for 'gopher')
- xwais (client program for WAIS)
- axe, mxedit, xedit ... and other X editors 
- xloadimage
- misc games like xtank, mazewar, xtetris
- xtex, xdvi and othe TeX utilities
- xplayer (to play sound)
- gnuplot
- ftptool and xftp (ftp program)
- xmailtool
- xpostit
- xvnews (reading news)
- misc 'wafe' application; xwafemail (mail), xwafeftp (ftp), 
  xwafenews (news reader), etc...
- misc 'tk' applications
- the list goes on and on ...

there are also collections of FREE Xwindows libraries like tk, wafe,
x quick and dirty toolkit (xqdtk ?), Wcl, etc....

Those are the free ones (that I remember  right now ....), 
not to mention the commerical stuffs... (look at UNIX World, Sun Expert,
or Sun World). You can always look the collection at export.lcs...

>Now name a decent scanning package.  Name a decent image manipulation
>tool (and I don't mean AVS).  Name a good spreadsheet.

Image processing, you can always use 'xv' or 'GIL'. If you're talking about
commercial stuff, there's always SunVision (which has SunArt).
For spreadsheet:
I heard 'sc' is comming with X support, and 'sc' is free.
Now name a FREE decent image manipulation and spreadsheet under MS-Windows
(shareware doesn't count, it's not free :-) ) ?

>>-Don't forget that it's the only windowing system I know of that works
>>decently over a network.  Which is going to be important in years to
>>come.

Exactly. That's one of the biggest reason why I use Xwindows.
I'd like to run a program on a server (fast machine, or maybe even super 
computer somewhere in the states) and display the result (graphic) 
locally on my console. Can you do this without Xwindows ?

Now, if I can get this PS/2 mouse working with Xwindows under Linux....
and get SLIP or PPP working .... I am happy.
[I haven't tried 0.97 pl 5 or 6 yet..... still 0.97 pl 1]

-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith)
Subject: Re: Many questions..
Organization: Keith's Computer, Hope Mills, NC
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 03:13:30 GMT

In article <sheldon.717823119@pv141b.vincent.iastate.edu> sheldon@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon) writes:
> But for X, definately 8 megs.  And with the money saved on the 486
>maybe a 200 meg drive.
>
> Nothing wrong with going the 486 route.  But there still seems to be
>about a $300-400 difference in price with the 386 lineup(which are
>getting pretty cheap).

Go one better, The 200MB drives are getting cheap these days too (well
under $500).  BANK the $300 and buy the 486 motherboard next year for
$150. and put an extra 16MB of RAM in it with the other $150.  The
interest will pay the freight. :) !
-- 
Keith Smith          uunet!ksmith!keith            5719 Archer Rd.
Digital Designs      BBS 1-919-423-4216            Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst)
Subject: Re: Many questions..
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:38:53 GMT
Organization: The Programmer's Pit Stop, Ann Arbor MI

In article <!bjz7lb@rpi.edu> gallatin@altair.cs.rpi.edu (Andrew Gallatin) writes:
>Would something like a 486-DX w/4M ram  & 100M hd provide enough power
>and storage space?

No.  You want at least 8MB for X.  If you can afford it, get 16MB.
100MB will probably not be enough disk space, either; get 150MB
minimum, 200MB if you can afford it.  486DX/33 is probably a good
place to start, although you might also get a good deal on a 486DX2/50
or 486DX/50.  If you don't have a large hunk of cash around, you might
want to think real hard about going SCSI for your disks -- this will
let you get several "small" drives (200MB or so) over a period of
time, rather than the SLED (single large expensive disk) strategy that
you need to use with ESDI or IDE.

-- 
Marc Unangst                | "There are two ways to solve this problem:
mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us   | the hard way, and the easy way.  Let's start
                            | with the hard way."
                            |   - W. Scheider, from a Physics lecture
From: jadeflcn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Ivan Carl Roseland)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: X on interactive unix and 386's
Date: 1 Oct 1992 15:50:07 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Summary: X 386
Keywords: X windows
Originator: jadeflcn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

I am looking to run X windows on a 486 running sun's interactive UNIX
but I have no C compiler, 8^(  or any other "real" tools.  so what I 
need is X binaries to for the server on the 486 and I would also 
like to have some 386's emulate X'terms.  Are there any ftp sites
I can get the binaries for the X terminal emulation I have 
found the the binaries for the server and stuff for the 486 that 
is accually running UNIX.
I am also trying to find the binaries for gcc, and maby a Make type
utility that would work on the system that way I could just find
the sourse that I need and compile on the machine myself.

thanks all
Ivan Roseland, Sales and Consulting Mayfair Computer
\\\/
 0o
 __
  !
jadeflcn