HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: meyer@uuisis.isis.org (Katherine Meyer)
Subject: Re: Re: Orchestras/conductors
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 03:38:04 GMT

rms@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Rick Scherer) writes:

>Toronto             DAVIS

actually, Andrew Davis is no longer conductor of the Toronto Symphony
although I can't remember who replaced him.  

Katherine
MEYER@UUISIS.ISIS.ORG
> ---
> Rick Scherer
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Subject: Re: EMI price increase
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:16:13 GMT

In article <Bw0nuF.926@news.udel.edu>, conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>In article <92283.135948MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET> <MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET> writes:
>
>>My local classical CD supplier said that he has been informed from EMI that
>>they plan to increase their per CD prices by $2.  That takes some nerve in
>>this day of dropping costs of CD production.
>
>Think it through, please: the costs of pressing the silver disk itself
>are the tiniest part of the expense that the recording needs to earn
>back.  What about
>
>Hiring the hall or studio
>Hiring the orchestra
>Renting the music (if not public domain, owned by the orch)
>Paying the conductor and soloists
>Paying the engineer, producer, editors
>Paying someone to write notes or do a translation
>Paying support staff for all of the above
>Doing publicity
>Etc.?
>
>If a company has sunk $500,000 or so into a recording, the only way they
>can earn it back is by their X% of each copy sold.  Given the way such
>expenses keep going up, one could make a case that CDs cost too LITTLE
>in this country (they cost significantly more in Europe).  I'm not going
>to push that case myself -- like anyone else, I don't want to pay more.
>But compare the increase in all the above expenses in the last 2 decades
>to the rise in record prices.  A CD seems like a bargain.
>
>Jon Alan Conrad

What Jon says is right for *new* recordings (probably of the 4 seasons or
*Carmina Burana* ;-)   ), but I bet that EMI also raise the recommended
price for recordings they made in the 70s, 60s, 50s... etc. That's what really
bugs me; paying those high prices for old (not of course necessarily worse)
recordings, where the "production costs" argument is not valid. 

And then you'll note in *Gramophone* or such like that a certain disk is
mid-price in Europe and full-price over here :=(.  I think that "marketing"
(aka what will the market bear) has a lot to do with it. After all, all
"classical" enthusiasts are old, rich, middle class, etc, etc... ;-)

Bill

+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: velde@gopher.Stanford.EDU (Francois Velde)
Subject: Re: EMI price increase
Organization: ^
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 17:34:55 GMT

If they don't, what does? If the high price of CDs is only due to
the big bad companies price-gouging, why are the CDs cheaper in the
US (inclusive of transportation costs) than in Europe?
Note that this price differential exists in a number of other products
(stereo, consumer electronics, computer equipment, etc).

>
>And are DG and Philips (and Decca) not just different aspects of a three-sided
>Polygram coin? If so, are they really likely ever to enter into any cut-throat
>marketing campaigns?
>
So my example was poorly chosen.

>>>A CD seems like a bargain.
>
>>Indeed.  Think of a CD as a perpetual investment: with a 10% discount rate, 
>>a $15 price tag for a CD is like paying $1.50 to rent that CD for 1 year.
>>I find that cheap, compared to, say, $6 for a movie I see only once,
>>or $2-3 to rent a video-cassette for 3 nights.
>>This line of reasoning is dangerous: it can lead to over-consumption of CDs...
>
>Not only is it dangerous, it's also pretty daft. If the record companies 
>thought that everyone was following that line of logic, Lord knows where we'd
>be with CD pricing, not to mention books, or any other goods which don't (or
>needn't) deteriorate over a lifetime. 

Take water: how much would you be willing to pay for water? An awful lot,
because without it you can't live. I was only explaining why I, as a consumer,
am willing to pay that price for a CD. In fact, I would be willing to pay more.
Competition, in principle, is what prevents producers from extracting all
this extra willingness-to-spend from me. If there isn't enough competition
in the CD business, write to the European Commission (I'll write to my 
Justice Department); or maybe there can't be competition, because there is
only one Pavarotti.

>And it really doesn't seem sufficient
>to me for the consumer to sit back and take such a neutral stance on the
>morality of recording companies and say, "Well, I can just about afford to
>buy CDs at their present price, so that's alright". There are plenty who
>can't afford CDs at their current cost, who are really at the mercy of those
>who can. 

It would be lovely if Opera orchestra seats could cost $5 each, and if everyone
could afford yachts.  Fact is, they don't, not everyone can. If you are 
unhappy with this state of affairs, and you think that the right to cheap
CDs is a fundamental human right, then nationalize the record industry and
subsidize it with everyone's taxes. But this gets us back to the thorny 
govt subsidies for the arts issue...

>I'm sure we'd be quite surprised at how much the price of new
>releases would decrease if the consumer put his foot down.

If that is the case, why don't predatory CD companies take advantage of 
that, sell only cheap CDs and capture all the market?
From: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM (James Langdell)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Rakozy March question
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:25:49 GMT
Reply-To: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: bassclar

By an odd chance, I have the Kalmus piano-vocal score of Berlioz's
""The Damnation of Faust" with me.

Here's an English translation of what Faust says to himself
just before the march begins:

   I hear the sound of war: there a bugle is blaring!
   Ah! The sons of the Danube for war are preparing!
   Their challenge ascends to the skies: they seem so proud and joyous!
   There is fire in their eyes!
   All hearts ignite as they sing of their glory.
   Only my heart is cold to the warrior's old story.

At the head of the "Marche Hongroise" is this note:

   The troops pass by; Faust leaves the scene

The only other note is at the end of the march:

   The curtain falls on the last measures of the march


There's doesn't seem to be any stated program illustrated by
the march beyond that.

--James Langdell      jamesc@eng.sun.com
  Sun Microsystems    Mountain View, Calif.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: EMI price increase
In-reply-to: conrad@brahms.udel.edu's message of Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:21:02 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<Bw11z3.Awz@news.udel.edu>
Date: 13 Oct 92 10:21:09 CDT


I'd like to see an analysis of LP and CD prices through the years,
against the CPI or some market-basket standard.  I'm pretty sure that
real prices of LPs fell during the decades.  I thought of the $4 for an
LP as quite an expenditure c. 1964 (granted I was a kid on an
allowance).  In the early 70s, an EJ Korvette store with a surprisingly
good classical section had frequent sales, during which full-price
domestic LPs were 3/$10 and budget LPs were 3/$5.  (That's when my
record collection *really* grew.)  The change from $4 in '64 to $3.33 in
'74 was an actual price decline in absolute dollars, probably because of
changes in distribution (from little local stores to big discount
stores).  During the really nasty late-70s inflation, LP prices rose but
(I think) significantly less than other prices.  Anyway my assumption
has been that CDs are starting out, again, as a significant expenditure,
but that the prices will hold fairly steady over a long period, and
we'll eventually consider the price modest.  For me, though, the
transition has been dispiriting because I used to buy records casually,
open to any new thing.  Now I feel some real risk buying a CD and have
felt really burned by a number of purchases.  If there's an economically
talented person in this group, I'd like to see these prices related to
other measures.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cm@impmh.uucp (Colin Manning)
Subject: Recommendations wanted: Rachmaninov Piano Con. 3
Organization: Integrated Micro Products Ltd
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 14:48:55 GMT


I've recently discovered Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto no. 3.  
The recording I have is that of Vladimir Ashkenazy.

Could anyone who knows this piece suggest any alternate/better (in
their humble opinion) recordings ?

-- 
Colin Manning     cm@impmh.uucp      Tel: +44 753 516599
From: vnguyen@husc8.harvard.edu (Vinh Nguyen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Dr. Faustus
Date: 10 Oct 92 02:03:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Oct9.220333.16215
Reply-To: vnguyen@husc8.harvard.edu
Originator: vnguyen@husc8.harvard.edu

In article <1992Oct9.172207.26226@visual.com>,
 rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel) writes:
> Jussi Leiwo writes: 
> 
>>I just happened to read Thomas Manns book Doctor Faustus. It's an extremely
>>good story about music, how Bach and Beethoven have done everything in the
>>traditional sonata, and how the new music has to get its ideas from war,
>>pain, disasters, from everything that is on the negative side of the human
>>thaughts.
> 
>>The idea of the book, is that there is a young man, Adrian Leverkuhn, who
>>is very talent and intellectual. The music chooses him, and he will be the
>>one who starts creating new kind of music. He promises his soul to the devil
>>and gets these new ideas of music (I guess the idea is German folk lore).
>>The basis for 'the new music' is in Schonbergs music.
> 
> I understood the model to be Mahler.  The descriptions of the music this
> composer writes is supposed to be very vividly imagined, as though you'd
> swear that Mann has actually unearthed this music himself.
> 
> Interesting that Mann thinks a composer would have to "sell his soul" in
> order to come up with the new music.  :-)
> 
> Rob

The allusion to music is rather incidental for the specter behind
Adrian Leverkuhn is no-one but Friedrich Nietzsche.  

Vinh Nguyen
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Alternate Classical-Music FAQ Memo
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:01:16 GMT

In article <PSU.92Oct16093848@ptero.cs.duke.edu> psu@cs.duke.edu (Peter Su) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.154623.3338@fid.morgan.com> steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>
>
>   Try:	Rautavaara
>	   Crumb
>	   Hovhaness
>	   Lloyd
>	   Kanchelli
>	   Gorecki
>
>And how about:
>
>Piston, Diamond, Hanson, Vaughn Williams (maybe doesn't count),
>Bliss,...Ellington. (half :-).

I believe that Mark was asking for suggestions regarding music by
living composers.  The list of "moderns" who would likely survive
his ordeal by fire is, of course, a longer one.

>
>Pete
>
>
>--
>Department of Computer Science, Duke University, Durham, NC 27706
>Internet:	psu@cs.duke.edu
>UUCP:		mcnc!duke!psu


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bamn@venus.ycc.yale.edu
Subject: Re: The Abuse of Classical Music
Organization: Yale Computer Center (YCC)
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:03:41 EDT

In article <12OCT199212061044@rover.uchicago.edu>, frank@rover.uchicago.edu (Frank - Hardware Hacker - Borger) writes:
> In article <J8PRBBZ3@cc.swarthmore.edu>, rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Rob Brooks) writes...
>>Oh, and then there's United(?)'s
>>mutilation of Rhapsody in Blue on all their commercials.  
>> 
> 	At least they could have used Grofe's Avation Suite, 'cept nobody
> 	would recognize it, (and it pictures a propeller driven plane.)
> 
> 	Most inappropriate had to be a 60's era ad for small cigarette size
> 	cigars name "Eric" which showed a brawny Viking with the obligatory
> 	ooglable blond sailing into New York harbor, to the strains of
> 	Carmina Burana. (Real Viking music, there...)
> 
> 	Lately there was the add (that mercifully died an early death,) which
> 	showed seats flying out of the plane with new (1mm) larger seats flying 
> 	back in, all to that wonderful duet from Lakhme.
> 
>    Frank R. Borger - Physicist    __       Internet:  Frank@rover.uchicago.edu
> Michael Reese - Univ. of Chicago |___      Phone : 312-791-8075 fax : 567-7455
>   Center for Radiation Therapy   | |_) _   If you've got them by the balls,
>                                    | \|_)  their minds and hearts will follow.
>     "Birthplace of Softball"          |_)  Charles Colson - Nixon aide
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: euagul@eua.ericsson.se (Ann Gulbrandsen)
Subject: Re: LA Phil
Reply-To: euagul@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 10:33:49 GMT

In article 31273@hydra.Helsinki.FI, wikla@cs.Helsinki.FI (Arto Wikla) writes:
>Ann Gulbrandsen writes:
>
>>A side comment on Salonen; He has been in charge of the Swedish Radio Orchestra
>>for some 3-4-5? years now, and has quite a following in Stockholm. I heard a
>>couple of his concerts last season, and really liked the Stravinsky: Oedipus Rex.
>>That performance is now available on the Sony label, featuring Vinson Cole as
>>Oedipus and Anne Sofie von Otter(another swedish mezzo:-) as Iocasta.
>
>Sometimes there has been a confusion that Esa-Pekka Salonen is Swedish.
>Because Ann's comment might strengthen that misunderstanding, I must
>inform everybody that he is FINNISH! 
>  I'm perhaps a bit nationalistic, but you know those little 
>  European countries!!  :-)
>Arto Wikla, Helsinki, Finland
>

Looking at it from the swedish horizon it looks like all
scandinavian conductors are finnish: E-P Salonen, J-P Sarastre,
L Segerstam, P Berglund .... So I'm just happy that you let
us borrow them:-) 

/Ann 



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Re: Rakozy March question
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 11:46:00 GMT

In article <3955@phred.UUCP>, jimn@phred.UUCP writes...
the Rakozy (sp?) march in Berlioz "Faust"? And for that matter, what 



..and didn't Liszt write a Rakozy march too?
From: x88phipps2@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: dance of the dead
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:51:21 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

    I've been having some difficulty locating information on various
incarnations of "dances of the dead", and I'm wondering if any of you fine
folks can recommend books or journal articles which deal with this subject.

Problems: while I read french, I cannot read Latin, Spanish or Catalian 
(I've had problems with numerous quotations in these languages).

While I've got your attention, I'm also interested in any really noteworthy
recordings of these works you might have heard tell of.

Awww heck, if you're bored enough to still be reading, I'm also trying to learn
more about the myths of the Sybil and a dance called the Saltarello.
          Thanks oodles!!!
x88phipps2@gw.wmich.edu
more about
From: lungtt@gus22.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Tchaikovsky Sextet?
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:55:14 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

I remember hearing a great piece on the radio.  Unfortunately,
I don't completely recall the name.  I think it was Tchaikovsky's
Sextet.  Does such a thing exist?  I don't see it on the record
store music catalogs.  Does anyone know of this?  Is there a 
recording available?

Thanks,

Terence
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Subject: Re: Bach Cello Suites on Period Instrument: Rec. Wanted
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:14:01 GMT

In article <BvqH0q.Kuq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> mvburke@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (mary virginia burke) writes:
>In <1992Oct6.210317.23962@fid.morgan.com> steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Oct6.065125.8678@midway.uchicago.edu> pkbockus@gsbphd.uchicago.edu (Keith Bockus) writes:
>>>I'm looking for a recording of the Bach Cello suites
>>>on a period instrument, but haven't found any 
>>>recommended recordings.  Any suggestions 
>>>(or reasons why I should not be looking for
>>>such a thing)?
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>>Keith Bockus 
>
>>Peter Wispelway's recording of the suites on Channel Classics
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Pieter Wispelwey, isn't it?
>>is stunning on all counts.  Go for it.
>
>Hmm, haven't gotten to this one yet, but it's on my Christmas list.
>
>But until the jury comes back on Mr. Wispelwey, I staunchly maintain that
>Anner Bylsma's recording is the best one around, and that's including the
>modern-instrument performances.....Problem is, it's next to impossible to 
>lay hands on it any more.  I have the whole set on vinyl, but so far have only
>been able to locate the CD with suites 4, 5, & 6 (on Pro Arte, I think it is).
>The good news is that he's allegedly going to re-record the set sometime in 
>the near future (at least, that's what the concert flyer said).  'Tis a 
>consummation devoutly to be wish'd.

I bought a Pro Arte sampler at a mamouth vinyl record sale, and am
sending off for their catalog.  Maybe I will be able to see what is
going on.  That is good news about Bylsma rerecording them.  There is
the set he did on Piccolo Cello, which has a flute sonata, the 2nd violin
sonata, and the 3rd Violin Partita played on the piccolo cello that is
superb.  That recording hit my like a ton of bricks, his phrasing....  
I pull that out and listen to it at least once a week, and I am getting 
close to the thousand CD mark.

There was a video called ALL THAT BACH, which has some traditional and
nontraditional recordings of Bach.  Keith Jarrett doing some of the
Golbergs on piano.  While the production and recording quality is
terrible, and a lot of it is goofy, it does have Bylsma doing a short 
piece from the Suites.  It is stunning, but unfortunate if that is the 
only thing findable of the Suites.

Jeff
From: asbed@sol.usc.edu (Asbed Bedrossian)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: EMI price increase
Date: 12 Oct 1992 11:14:26 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.usc.edu

In article <92283.135948MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET> <MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET> writes:
>My local classical CD supplier said that he has been informed from EMI that
>they plan to increase their per CD prices by $2.  That takes some nerve in
>this day of dropping costs of CD production.
>Mike Hughes

What does the cost of production have anything to do with your cost at
the retailers'. I've heard the cost of mass production of a CD is around
50 cents. The rest of your money goes to feed the artists and execs.

:ll

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: CD mail order in Canada
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:43:56 GMT


Noteworthy Music in Nashua, New Hampshire, advertises a toll free number:

1-800-648-7972

They say this works from US or Canada. They are not a club, just a mail
order CD retailer. They have a catalog you can ask for.
From: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Recommendations wanted: Rachmaninov Piano Con. 3
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:27:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: sarah.1992Oct14.192703.4709
Reply-To: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Organization: SUNYA School of Public Health, Albany, NY

In article <1992Oct14.183310.29182@news.acns.nwu.edu>, ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung) writes:
>In article <1992Oct14.144855.1635@impmh.uucp> cm@impmh.uucp (Colin Manning) writes:
># 
># I've recently discovered Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto no. 3.  
># The recording I have is that of Vladimir Ashkenazy.
># 
># Could anyone who knows this piece suggest any alternate/better (in
># their humble opinion) recordings ?
>
>Horowitz/Reiner (the one from the 50s), on RCA.  Rachmaninov himself said
>that Horowitz was the only one for this piece.
>

  I would recommend Rachmaninov himself playing his concertos. OK,
he wasn't great in it, but it is quite interesting to hear composer
playing his own music.

                                          Pawel Penczek
From: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:23:31 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

More Glass? What have we done to deserve this. He is a second rate
movie composer with his mediocre orchestration and obscene
derivativeness (Brief history of time) his opera about Columbus is set
partly in space with aliens (I doubt that will enter the pantheon of
Great artistic achievements) he was voted most Boring Composer by
concergoers for three straight years and I'll take Aida over aknaten
and pure silence over Einstien on the beach
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: price of CDs (was Re: EMI price increase)
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:36:07 GMT
	<7192@transfer.stratus.com>
Organization: pubs
In-reply-to: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com's message of 13 Oct 92 18:48:21 GMT

Jim Mann writes:

   No, one company could NOT simply lower its price and get all the
   customers. That only works for those commodities that are pretty
   much the same from company to company. ...
   I don't go into a store saying "I want to buy a compact disk,
   now what's the cheapest?"  The companies don't produce the same
   thing. ...

But the closer they get to the same thing, the more effect the price
has.  In LP days, a new issue *sounded* distinctly better (because
domestic labels never remastered anything), but the difference is a lot
less among CDs, especially if the [A|D][A|D]D code is the same.  Even
when the code differs, an "A" recording might be a classic version with
good sound.  I've been known to choose a recording partly on price.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: benjamin@nebula.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Re: Bach's sixth cello suite.  What happened?
Reply-To: benjamin@nebula.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 20:21:15 GMT

In article <MURRAY.92Oct10094827@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu>, murray@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Thomas Murray) writes:
>Speaking of Bach's cello suites, I've been doing some fairly intense
>listening lately.  The sixth suite (D major) really stands out. The
>movements, especially the Prelude and Allemande have gotten much
>longer than previous suites (with the exception of the Prelude of the
>fifth suite in C minor), much more dramatically intense, and the range
>just exploded.  The Prelude goes up to a high E (I believe)!!  And it
>stays up there much of the time, before suddenly plunging down to the
>depths. 
>
>What happened?  Was Bach just maturing?  Did something traumatic
>happen about this time?  

I believe that the 5th and 6th Suites were written for a cello with 
*5* strings.  MUCH easier.  :-)

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical