HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: a481@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer)
Subject: LEGACY Promotional Office
Originator: cwatters@top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:03:00 GMT


In an effort to promote Legacy to the gaming public, Discordian Games (DG)
is pleased to make the following offer: Five (5) copies of the game will be
sent at no charge to the first five qualifying individuals for the purposes
of exposure and review. To qualify, an individual must:

   i) have in the past either posted a comprehensive review of an RPG on
      one of the rec.games.frp.* newsgroups, or have had a review of an
      RPG published in a magazine, and

  ii) commit to sending constructive feedback of the game system and
      universe to DG within two weeks of receipt of the game, and

 iii) be willing to post a comprehensive review of the game to
      rec.games.frp.misc within four weeks of receipt of the game; this
      review will *not* be subject to editing by DG or any of its
      representatives, and is expected to be an honest, candid opinion of
      the game system and universe, and

  iv) must not be associated with any gaming house organ or other
      publication that is in any way connected with a game design company.
      This does not disqualify game design companies that do not publish a
      periodical.

If you qualify and would like to participate in this endeavour, please send
email to a481@mindlink.bc.ca. Place the title "Reviewer Application" in the
subject header, and include in your letter your name, email address, snail
mail address, and phone number. Also include a brief summary of your gaming
history and a list of design or development credits. You may, if you wish,
include the level of post-secondary studies you have completed, if any.

Sending an application via email is to be considered an explicit
declaration that you qualify as described above.

DG reserves the right to select the five individuals at its discretion. All
applications received before 2300 PST, December 30th, 1992 will be given
fair consideration. Selected individuals will be notified within 48 hours
of the closing time.

If you have any questions regarding this article, send them to
a481@mindlink.bc.ca.

--
J.D. Frazer, a481@mindlink.bc.ca, (Vancouver, B.C., Canada)
-----------------------------------------------------------
*BRRRRAPPAPPAPPAPPAPPAPPAPPAPP!*
"MEIN LEBEN!" <thud>
"You shoulda thought about that when you signed up, buddy." - Valaria

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.announce
From: a481@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer)
Subject: LEGACY Reviewers Selected
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc
Originator: cwatters@bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:53:00 GMT


The five reviewers have been finally selected from the thirty-one
applications that came in. The following individuals will be receiving
email very shortly to confirm that they are still interested in acting as
reviewers, as well as further instructions:

        Loren J. Miller       (millerl@wharton.upenn.edu)
        Viktor Haag           (viktor@mks.com)
        Charles Moore         (cse6053@eve.wright.edu)
        Dakin Burdick         (burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu)
        Brian David Phillips  (nccut132@twnmoe10.edu.tw)

If a selected reviewer declines or does not respond within a
week, another reviewer will be selected from the remaining pool.

The selection process was a tough one, since there were so many qualified
individuals that applied. If you weren't selected, rest assured that there
will be opportunities to review other products from DG in the near future.

My thanks for your interest and your patience.

--
J.D. Frazer, a481@mindlink.bc.ca, (Vancouver, B.C., Canada)

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.announce
From: zog@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott Allen Bauer)
Subject: DJ mailing-list
Originator: cwatters@top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: Kansas State University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 10:23:29 GMT


     If you are interesting in the game Dangerous Journeys
by Gary Gygax'z send me mail with the heading DJ list to 
subscribe to the DJ mailing list.  I am orgainzing this list
for people that want to swap ideas on how to modify the game 
to suit every game worlds needs and sharing other ideas and
any other use that people want to use it for. 

     email address  zog@matt.ksu.ksu.edu

ZOG out

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.announce
From: philipd@cs.kuleuven.ac.be (Philip Dutre)
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Organization: Dept. Computerwetenschappen
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:26:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.193938.19238@news.mentorg.com>, bcannard@hppcb36.mentorg.com (The Human Mi-Go) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Dec21.230218.4873@schbbs.mot.com>, TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Stephen Gill) writes:
|> |> Who are we, gamers in general, to complain? We put up with DRAGON when it
|> |> refused to recognise the existence of anything non-DnD. Here in the UK
|> |> the biggest selling 'roleplaying magazine' is CITADEL'S monthly catalogue
|> |> WHITE DWARF, which ten years ago was the only independant mag going.
|> 
|> WHITE DWARF was not independent at any stage of its existence.
|> It was created and published by and for Games Workshop.

So?

Before GW started producing & selling their entire Warhammer range, WD was
already in existence for several years (since 1978 or so...). Warhammer 1st
edition was only launched in 1983, and was then produced by Citadel (not GW
at that time!). WD turned into a complete GW house mag from issue 100 onwards.
If you grab any issue from before that date, you'll find a lot of articles
featuring AD&D, CoC, Stormbringer etc...

WD certainly has developed into a non-roleplaying mag (unless you call WH40K,
WFB and Space Marine roleplaying games), but was certainly the leading FRP
magazine during the early eighties.

-- 
| Phil Dutre                            Dept. Computer Wetenschappen        |
| philipd@cs.kuleuven.ac.be             Katholieke Universiteit Leuven (KUL)|
| Phone: (32) 16 201015 x3094/3552      Celestijnenlaan 200A                |
| Fax:   (32) 16 205308                 B-3001 Heverlee, BELGIUM            |
From: loydb@fnordbox.UUCP (Loyd Blankenship)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Steve Jackson Games Internet connection
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 2 Jan 93 14:40:19 CST
Organization: Texas Net Illuminati

evil@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Todd Goodman) writes:
>
> I saw in an old Roleplayer(R) magazine that Steve Jackson Games was
> toying with the idea of getting an internet connection (they have a BBS,
> but I'm a long way from Texas!).  Anyone know if this has come about and
> what the address is if it does exist?

We will (probably by the end of January) have a BBS up that carries some of
the usenet groups, and offers internet mail. Unfortunately, we can't afford
a full internet connection (which run from $1,000 up a month). The phone
number remains the same (512/447-4449).

Loyd

***************************************************************************
* loydb@fnordbox.UUCP	     Once you pull the pin,  *	Loyd Blankenship  *
* GEnie: SJGAMES	    Mr. Grenade is no longer *	PO Box 18957	  *
* Compu$erve: [73407,515]	 your friend!	     *	Austin, TX 78760  *
* cs.utexas.edu!dogface!fnordbox!loydb		     *	512/447-7866	  *
***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Stephen Gill)
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Organization: Motorola
Date: 29 Dec 1992 03:04:26 CST

From: bcannard@hppcb36.mentorg.com (The Human Mi-Go)
>I collected WD from about issue 17 onwards, thank you. Did you know that

>   GW had UK import and/or printing rights for those games.
>
>As I recall (correct me if my memory is deceiving me) they not only had
>printing rights to CoC but exclusive import & distribution rights
>as well. If you bought CoC in England, GW would have had their hands on
>it at some point. I once owned their softbound AD&D Player's Handbook
>imprint, and still have their hardback Stormbringer and 3rd ed. CoC.
>So it's not surprising that WD contained CoC articles.

>Rule of thumb: if it was in WD it would also be in the GW retail shops.
>The issue was cause and effect; in the early days WD would write about
>it and GW would try to sell it and get distribution rights. That slowly
>changed to: WD would write about it if GW sold it.

Although GW had the full rights to DnD, Runequest, CoC, Traveller etc. WD
often printed articles and scenarios for games that they didn't handle.

The nice thing was that their reviews etc were pretty authoritive, on
more than one occasion they slated a TSR product which GW sold and raved
about a product they didn't have such as Daredevils.

Until I gained access to the net the demise of WD (ie becoming a Citadel
mouthpiece) had left me with no worthwhile reviews to compare products,
excepting short lived mags like GamesMaster & GMI. Now I just read the
arguments here and take a guess based on that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Gill, internet TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com
MOTOROLA LMPS, European fin. MIS, Camberley Surrey UK

These opinions are mine, mine all mine   nya,ha,ha !
From: manga@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Michael Betz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Date: 23 Dec 1992 17:09:09 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Dec21.230218.4873@schbbs.mot.com> TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Stephen Gill) writes:
>From: acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams):
>
>>Believe it or not, folks, T$R's latest product is:
>>CTRL-L inserted for people who can't stand greed:

 I can stand greed, what I can't stand is rampant idiocy, which makes me
wonder why I'm responding to this post.

>>A Hardbound version of the 1993 Catalog.
>>You buy it.
>>Its not a freebie.
>>You pay money for the catalog.
>>It does include 32 pages of interviews and insights, but this sounds
>>like the most colossal rip-off in history of the RPG industry,
>>with the possible exception of Dangerous Journeys.

  It's amazing. For a hobby that claims to be the refuge of the
intellectually superior, roleplayers have this unique talent to make shit
come out of both of their major orfices!!

>>Price is not indicated in the ad, which I saw on the inside front
>>cover of the new issue of Games magazine.

   Ooooohhh, the bastion of journalistic integrity there!!

>People will buy it, there's one born every minute.

Like you, or anyone else who clings to the errantly misguided belief that
TSR (note no dollar sign) is commiting a hanous crimg against poor suffering
gamers anywhere? Get real.
     If any of you had bothered to go out into the real world before
suffering from such an errant case of diarreha of the mouth, you would
realize that many companies sell their catalogs. When I was still at home
and working in my parent's hardware store, they would buy catalogs
regularly. There is a minor industry that revolves around the sale of said
items.

Who are we, gamers in general, to complain? We put up with DRAGON when it
>refused to recognise the existence of anything non-DnD. Here in the UK
>the biggest selling 'roleplaying magazine' is CITADEL'S monthly catalogue
>WHITE DWARF, which ten years ago was the only independant mag going.

   The term "bunch of idiots with their heads in their asses" comes to mind.

>It looks to me like roleplayers in general are lost when it comes to
>careful buying, how many of you have bought games that you've never even
>read, never mind played. I must admit I'm into double figures and must be
>getting close to triple figures by now.

No, it just means that you're stupid, that's all.
From: philipd@cs.kuleuven.ac.be (Philip Dutre)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Good old White Dwarf & new GW (was: Re: T$R Newest "Product")
Date: 26 Dec 92 13:59:22 GMT
Organization: Dept. Computerwetenschappen

|> |> In article <1992Dec23.193938.19238@news.mentorg.com>, bcannard@hppcb36.mentorg.com (The Human Mi-Go) writes:
|> |> |> WHITE DWARF was not independent at any stage of its existence.
|> |> |> It was created and published by and for Games Workshop.
|> |> 
|> |> So?
|> 
|> So calling it "independent" was just plain wrong.

Okay. When you said "It was created and published by and for GW", I presumed
you were referring to the current situation, were only the GW house games
are covered in the Dwarf.

|> 
|> |> Before GW started producing & selling their entire Warhammer range, WD was
|> |> already in existence for several years (since 1978 or so...). Warhammer 1st
|> |> edition was only launched in 1983, and was then produced by Citadel (not GW
|> |> at that time!). WD turned into a complete GW house mag from issue 100 onwards.
|> |> If you grab any issue from before that date, you'll find a lot of articles
|> |> featuring AD&D, CoC, Stormbringer etc...
|> 
|> I collected WD from about issue 17 onwards, thank you. Did you know that:
|> 
|> 	GW had UK import and/or printing rights for those games.

I knew that, but never made the link between the games that were covered by
WD and the games that were sold by GW stores. Indeed, if this were the case,
you can hardly call "the old Dwarf" an independent magazine.

|> 
|> |> WD certainly has developed into a non-roleplaying mag (unless you call WH40K,
|> |> WFB and Space Marine roleplaying games), but was certainly the leading FRP
|> |> magazine during the early eighties.
|> 
|> I fully agree.
|> 
|> But "good" and "independent" are different things; I know several
|> current magazines that are tied to specific manufacturers but will
|> happily publish articles for games by different companies. The
|> danger is always that some executive in the parent company will notice
|> that they are "advertising" competitors' products and decide that
|> Something Must Be Done. That's what happened to WD.

I agree. I just hope White Wolf magazine isn't heading in that direction :-)

BTW, I wonder what is going to happen to GW during the coming years. I know
a LOT of people who were once Warhammer-addicts (including myself), but are 
turning away from GW en masse because they don't longer like the "improved"
games such as WH40K, WFB or Space Marine. It seems GW is producing more
and more stuff that should attract younger players (e.g. steam tanks, noise
marines, childish magic etc...). And if so, where are all those younger
players going to get the money to buy a lot of expensive miniatures?

-- 
| Phil Dutre                            Dept. Computer Wetenschappen        |
| philipd@cs.kuleuven.ac.be             Katholieke Universiteit Leuven (KUL)|
| Phone: (32) 16 201015 x3094/3552      Celestijnenlaan 200A                |
| Fax:   (32) 16 205308                 B-3001 Heverlee, BELGIUM            |
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: rowlan@lechuguilla.mcs.anl.gov (John_Rowlan)
Subject: Zork
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Chicago, Illinois
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:06:47 GMT

Does anyone know where the maps to Zork 1,2,3 can be found ???

thanks




Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: surge@cqs.washington.edu (Jonathan Sari)
Subject: Re: WFRP: about
Summary: Warhammer has good background, lousy rules.
Keywords: WFRP Warhammer campaign
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:55:25 GMT

>WFRP is among my top three favorite games...
>                                  It's a pity, since it had a nice
>minimalist system that reinforced the heroic yet dark fantasy world.

The system is so minimalist that is has very little bearing on
reality.  The entire concept of boolean skills and characteristics
that can multiply themselves ten-fold through the course of a
character's life always left a bad taste in my mouth.  Add to that the
fact that armour is of little consequence at all, and I'd have to list
this as my least favorite rules system in existence.

>The world, however, is quite rich and really fun to play in.... most of the
>Old World's flavor is imparted in the excellent fantasy campaign _The
>Enemy Within_. Quite simply, this set of about six adventures is the
>best fantasy campaign ever produced. (*Puts on flame retardant jumpsuit*)

Agreed.  The world is entertaining, though at least moderately
revolting.  This is not a game for players seeking any degree of
realism.  The Enemy Within works very well for the most part, with a
few reservations.

>Here's the supplements you should look for:
>
>   The Enemy Within Campaign

>       The Enemy Within

 I joined after the party had completed this one.

>       Shadows Over Bogenhafen

 Played it.  Many of our players got so frustrated with the plot that
they were about to completely give up.  Not the fault of the module,
but rather the players.

>       Death on the Reik

 Most everyone enjoyed this.

>       The Power Behind the Throne

 Once again, a good module spoiled by the fact that we had ten
players, and most of the actions in it are of a single-player nature.
This one killed our adventure, so we never got to the last two.  I'm
curious as to what people think about them.

>       Something Rotten in Kislev
>       Empire in Flames
>       (The above *have* been rereleased in two bound volumes.)

>Oh well, this should have probably been posted to .advocacy, but the
>original thread started in .misc, and I was replying to it...

Not too late to move it.  (Or to have it moved by a net.butthead like
me.  :-) )

-Jon
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Stephen Gill)
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Organization: Motorola
Date: 22 Dec 1992 04:27:03 CST

From: acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams):

>Believe it or not, folks, T$R's latest product is:
>CTRL-L inserted for people who can't stand greed:

>A Hardbound version of the 1993 Catalog.
>You buy it.
>Its not a freebie.
>You pay money for the catalog.
>It does include 32 pages of interviews and insights, but this sounds
>like the most colossal rip-off in history of the RPG industry,
>with the possible exception of Dangerous Journeys.

>Price is not indicated in the ad, which I saw on the inside front
>cover of the new issue of Games magazine.

People will buy it, there's one born every minute.

Who are we, gamers in general, to complain? We put up with DRAGON when it
refused to recognise the existence of anything non-DnD. Here in the UK
the biggest selling 'roleplaying magazine' is CITADEL'S monthly catalogue
WHITE DWARF, which ten years ago was the only independant mag going.

It looks to me like roleplayers in general are lost when it comes to
careful buying, how many of you have bought games that you've never even
read, never mind played. I must admit I'm into double figures and must be
getting close to triple figures by now.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Gill, internet TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com
MOTOROLA LMPS, European fin. MIS, Camberley Surrey UK

These opinions are mine, mine all mine   nya,ha,ha !
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc
From: wljohnso@nyx.cs.du.edu (William johnson)
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product": What it REALLY is
Summary: Greed Is Bad 
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: TSR Greed Catalog
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 06:58:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.211540.18787@midway.uchicago.edu> lev0@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>>>Believe it or not, folks, T$R's latest product is:
>>>A Hardbound version of the 1993 Catalog.
>
>>It costs $10.  Available in January for those who HAVE to have EVERYTHING.  :)
>
>Don't be silly.  You're getting a hardbound TSR book for ten dollars.
>Don't you remember what you REALLY used all those handbooks and guides and
>arcanas for when you were playing the games?  I mean, sure, you read
>them now and again, but they were still so USEFUL after you had them
>memorized.
>
>You wrote on them.  You stored your papers in them.  You got to look
>at the artwork on the front.  Yes, they're selling you a lap clipboard/
>desk assembly.  You know you want it.  That way you won't have to mess
>up the front of your AD&DV2 books with those pencil-pushed markings on
>the front.
>
>For ten dollars, that's a steal.  Try and buy a lap desk in an office
>supply store and see what you get.
>
	Save the cash and buy a CLIPBOARD for $1.95.

-------------------------------------------|
| William "Wes" "Arrr!" "Golden Earring"   |
| "Gener" "Sierra" "Mohican" "Mr. Kamikazi"|
| "Bite Me" "Deal With It" "Sentri" Johnson|
-------------------------------------------|
Net Address: wljohnso@nyx.cs.du.edu


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: bcannard@hppcb36.mentorg.com (The Human Mi-Go)
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Originator: bcannard@hppcb36
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 02:57:01 GMT
Reply-To: bob_cannard@mentorg.com
Organization: Yuggoth Instant Freeze Corp.
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <1992Dec23.212621.20534@cs.kuleuven.ac.be>, philipd@cs.kuleuven.ac.be (Philip Dutre) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec23.193938.19238@news.mentorg.com>, bcannard@hppcb36.mentorg.com (The Human Mi-Go) writes:
|> |> WHITE DWARF was not independent at any stage of its existence.
|> |> It was created and published by and for Games Workshop.
|> 
|> So?

So calling it "independent" was just plain wrong.

|> Before GW started producing & selling their entire Warhammer range, WD was
|> already in existence for several years (since 1978 or so...). Warhammer 1st
|> edition was only launched in 1983, and was then produced by Citadel (not GW
|> at that time!). WD turned into a complete GW house mag from issue 100 onwards.
|> If you grab any issue from before that date, you'll find a lot of articles
|> featuring AD&D, CoC, Stormbringer etc...

I collected WD from about issue 17 onwards, thank you. Did you know that:

	GW had UK import and/or printing rights for those games.
	
As I recall (correct me if my memory is deceiving me) they not only had
printing rights to CoC but exclusive import & distribution rights
as well. If you bought CoC in England, GW would have had their hands on
it at some point. I once owned their softbound AD&D Player's Handbook
imprint, and still have their hardback Stormbringer and 3rd ed. CoC.
So it's not surprising that WD contained CoC articles.

Rule of thumb: if it was in WD it would also be in the GW retail shops.
The issue was cause and effect; in the early days WD would write about it
and GW would try to sell it and get distribution rights. That slowly
changed to: WD would write about it if GW sold it.

|> WD certainly has developed into a non-roleplaying mag (unless you call WH40K,
|> WFB and Space Marine roleplaying games), but was certainly the leading FRP
|> magazine during the early eighties.

I fully agree.

But "good" and "independent" are different things; I know several
current magazines that are tied to specific manufacturers but will
happily publish articles for games by different companies. The
danger is always that some executive in the parent company will notice
that they are "advertising" competitors' products and decide that
Something Must Be Done. That's what happened to WD.

Aside: When GW dropped various licenses including CoC, outraged
gamers wrote in to ask what was going on, and WD's reply was along
the lines of "These games have run their course". They really should
have told Chaosium! :-)
-- 
bob_cannard@mentorg.com			"More dynamite!" - Theron Marks
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy