HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: essential!jdonahue@UUNET.UU.NET ((jim))
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Subject: Re: request
Date: 5 Nov 92 02:09:27 GMT
              <EUEARN-L@UBVM.BITNET>
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              "UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu!EUEARN-L" at Nov 3, 92 8:08 am

>
> Silly you, send a one line mail message to LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
> with the text:
> UNSUB EUEARN-L
>
> One time should do it.
>
I've already tried that, nearly 400 times.  My address changed since
I subscribed to E-EUEARN, so listserv does not recognize me, but I
still get mail from the list.  So, somehow the list recognizes my
new address and continues to send me mail, but when signing of it
will not recognize my new address.

New address to sign me off (please!): jdonahue@essential.org (Internet)

--
Jim Donahue
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:11:46 -0400
From:         ZAIGI@AC.DAL.CA
Subject:      Australian Bibliographic Network

Hi Netters,
Any of you knows this Network and how to get an account of it?
Regards,
Nick
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:40:59 -0500
From:         Nhan Tran <tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM>
Subject:      CAM: Hun Sen arrives in Thailand,
              predicts new Khmer Rouge offensive

11/09

CAMBODIAN P.M. HUN SEN ARRIVES IN THAILAND, PREDICTS NEW KHMER ROUGE OFFENSIVE

BANGKOK (NOV. 9) DPA - Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen warned Monday that
Cambodia was once again on "the brink of war" and his own troops would
"exercise the right of self defence" against an anticipated Khmer Rouge
dry-season offensive.

After a weekend in Beijing, China, where renewed peace talks between the
various Cambodian factions failed to revive the Paris Peace Agreement signed
last year, Hun Sen painted a picture of renewed violence and civil war in his
country.

"What we can expect is a dry-season offensive and the Khmer Rouge have already
started," Hun Sen told reporters at Bangkok International Airport upon his
arrival for a two-day stopover.

Thus far the Khmer Rouge have refused to comply with the Paris Peace
Agreement's conditions that stipulated some 70 per cent of the armies of all
four Cambodian factions should be demobilized this month.

Khmer Rouge leader Khien Samphan, who also flew into Bangkok Monday, said in
Beijing that his faction refused to demobilize their troops until all
Vietnamese citizens are removed from Cambodia and the Supreme National Council,
which embodies the four factions, is given greater political clout.

Khmer Rouge intransigence is seen as the chief cause of the recent collapse of
the peace agreement, which was laboriously pieced together by the international
community in 1991 after years of bickering.

Under the agreement, some 20,000 international troops have been dispatched to
Cambodia under the United Nations Transitional Authority for Cambodia (UNTAC)
to keep the peace and prepare for a planned general election in May 1993.

With sporatic fighting already reported, peace and general elections seem as
far away as ever for war-torn Cambodia.

Hun Sen, who was ushered into power in Phnom Penh by the Vietnamese during
their occupation of Cambodia, admitted that his troops would resume fighting if
the Khmer Rouge go on the attack.

"The degree of our military reaction will depend on the degree of Khmer Rouge
military activities," he said.
From: andri@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Subject: Re:Nov.12 Massacre Memorial
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:25:05 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Mr.Scheiner,
200,000 is a BIG number. I bet since Indonesia rules that part Timor
Island not even 1,000 civilians died. Most of them collaborated with
the Fretilin. But anyway we thank you for giving us condolescence. I
appreciate that.
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:03:49 -0600
From:         Max Becherer <becherer@SUNA0.CS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vietnam Update - Science

> The third successive annual Vietnam Update wassuccessfully held at The
> Australian National University on 5th and 6th November.

> November 5, AUSTRALIAN COMMITTEE FOR SCIENTIFIC COOPERATION WITH VIETNAM

>    <<<<<< Program guide deleted >>>>>>

> Postscript: After attending this informative annual meeting I am left
> wonering about the relevance of the diatribe against normalization of
> relations. How does this mesh with issues such as family planning,
> protcting the environment or saving an endangered species? Normalization
> cannot be put in the dichotomy of human rights or commercial gain.The
> people of Vietnam have every right to make contact with the world outside,
> to exchange information, and to make choices about their future.

       Oh, I'm afraid it's plenty relenant.  Mr. Thayer, and the rest of
the pro-normalization crowd continue to operate on the false premise that
the Hanoi regime is the legitimate government of Vietnam, that it has the
right to rule the Vietnamese and that it speaks for them and their interests.
Nothing could be further from the truth!  Hanoi is no more interested in the
well-being of the Vietnamese than Pretoria is interested in that of the
Blacks.  Hanoi is a thug regime, every bit as brutish as any of the so-called
Right-Wing governments the Left is so fond of bashing.  In my opinion, tyranny
is tyranny, regardless of what silly label you may care to put on it.
       Mr Thayer is certainly correct when he says that the Vietnamese people
have every right to make contact with the outside world.  The illegitimate
Hanoi regime, however, has no such right.  What Mr. Thayer must understand is
that when he speaks with Hanoi's representatives at meetings such as the one
mentioned above, he is not speaking to the people of Vietnam.  That regime
stands in the way of the Vietnamese people's access to the outside world, as
well as obstructing the people's other rights.  The Vietnamese people will
only be able to excercise their rights and realize their true potential when
the Hanoi regime joins it's East European and Soviet comrades on the ash heap
of history.


                                    Max Becherer

Postscript:  I can't help but wondering how many of the members of the
Australian Committee for Scientific Cooperation with Vietnam will still
be so enthusiastic about the country when (not if) the Hanoi regime is
toppled.
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 07:35:04 PST
From:         "(Coban Tun)" <tun@QUARK.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      Burma: Burmese troop clash with Thai Inside Thailand

RTw  11/05 0530  BURMESE TROOPS CLASH WITH THAIS INSIDE THAILAND
.
 (Eds: leads with clash between Burmese and Thai troops)
    MAE SOT, Thailand, Nov 5, Reuter - Burmese troops pursuing ethnic
guerrillas clashed with Thai forces inside Thailand on Thursday, an army
source on the border said.
    A Burmese unit chasing Karen guerrillas exchanged fire with Thai
soldiers at Ban Mai Pang village in Maehongson province but no casualties
were reported, he told Reuters.
    About 50 Burmese soldiers were dug in on the Thai side of the border
and the Thais had called for air support.
    "We sent a reconnaisance plane to the fighting area and have ordered
ground troops to push out the intruder with artillery," the army source said.
    In Bangkok, a senior army source said a visit to Rangoon next Sunday by
supreme commander Air Chief Marshal Voranat Apichari had been postponed
because of the border tension.
    "Rangoon just informed us today that they are not ready to welcome us at
the time being," he said.
    Thai intelligence sources on the border said Karen guerrillas, who have
been fighting for autonomy in Burma for nearly four decades, had killed 17
government troops and wounded many more in an ambush on Sunday as the soldiers
cleared mines.
    The ambush occurred about 40 km (25 miles) southwest of Myawadi, the
town on the Burmese side of the River Moei which marks the border with Thailand.
    About 100 soldiers were said to be taking part in the mine-clearing
operation.
    Fighting has broken out along the border as the rainy season ends, with
the Burmese army moving up more troops in another bid to crush the guerrillas.
An important Karen camp fell last week.
    The army almost captured the Karen headquarters at Manerplaw in its last
campaign but suspended the assault in May in what the ruling Rangoon junta
said was a gesture of reconciliation.
    Guerrillas and Burmese dissidents sometimes seek refuge across the border
in Thailand which has generally maintained cordial relations with the Burmese
junta.
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:44:03 -0500
From:         Nhan Tran <tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM>
Subject:      CAM: Thais state that sanctions on Khmer Rouge might not work

11/10

THAIS STATE THAT UN-SPONSORED ECONOMIC SANCTIONS ON KHMER ROUGE MIGHT NOT WORK

BANGKOK (NOV. 10) DPA - Thai Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai said Tuesday it would
be very difficult to close off the Thai-Cambodian border if the United Nations
decided to impose economic sanctions on the Khmer Rouge in a bid to force it
back to the negotiating table.

''Thailand has a free-market economy, and trading is in the domain of the
private sector,'' Chuan said, after a morning meeting with Phnom Penh's premier
Hun Sen.

''The border is long. If we try to fence it off it will be very difficult,''
said Chuan.

Hun Sen flew in Monday, on the heels of a meeting in Beijing, China, where an
attempt to salvage the Paris Peace Agreement for Cambodia ended in failure
Sunday.

The Khmer Rouge, blamed for the deaths of at least a million Cambodians during
its nightmarish rule from 1975-78, has refused to disarm its troops.

The faction said that since there were still Vietnamese in Cambodia, the
Vietnam-installed Phnom Penh regime would have too much power to influence
planned free elections next May.

If the Khmer Rouge fails to demobilize 70 per cent of its troops (estimated at
between 20,000 and 30,000) by November 15, the United Nations Security Council
may opt to impose economic sanctions on them.

Observers in Phnom Penh said Thai businessmen, dealing in gemstones and timber
in Khmer Rouge-controlled areas, have been keeping the Khmer Rouge solvent and
arguably financing its renewed military activities.

The Thai government has already promised to comply with economic sanctions
against the Khmer Rouge should the U.N. decide to impose them.

Thailand is likely to appeal to the U.N. for financial assistance in
implementing any Security Council resolution.
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 02:46:33 -0600
From:         GOD BLESS INDONESIA!!! <I2MARTOKOESO@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Re:Nov.12 Massacre Memorial

East Timor movement (for me) in Nov 12 is 1 year now.
I hope that the Indonesian government will more carefull next time
to handle such a movement like this because there are some people
can take an advantage from this kind of action that make the Indonesian
Gov't name bad and this thing also will make others that don't really
know about what the Indonesian gov't already do in East Timor can be
influenced by people that take those advantages.

Marto
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:48:00 EST
From:         "Carl A. Trocki" <CTROCKI@GUVAX.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Vietnam Update - Science

There you go again Max.  You don't really pay attention to what people
say.  You say I think that the Vietnamese will learn from the West.  I
never said that.  I said they would learn from the rest of of the
world and make their own decisions.  That's what I said.  Please don't
misquote me and turn me into a patronizing snob like yourself with
your kneejerk reactionism.
Whether or not the Vietnamese government is "legitimate" , it is the
de facto government of the place.  It won power the way that every
other government in th world has won power - it fought for it.  In
that sense, it is legitimate as well as de facto.  You may have some
reason for suggesting that it has not fulfilled its promise, it thus
remains for the Vietnamese people to deal with that question in their
own time.
        I still say that contact with the outside hastens the collapse
of the system while outside opposition rigidifies it.  The regimes of
Eastern Europe and the USSR did not collapse as a result of being sat
in the corner like naughty children until they had jumped through your
hoop.  They changed because of the cumulative weight of outside
influence which encouraged the people to stand up.  They knew they wer
not alone.
        So long as the Vietnamese people are made to think they
struggel in darkness alone, they will be dominated.  And people like
yourself will keep them there.  I repeat.  It is no sophistry, it is
no exaggeration, you are contributing to the tyranny!
                                CTROCKI
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:18:13 PST
From:         Charles Scheiner <cscheiner@IGC.APC.ORG>
Subject:      T Jalong (SAM) passport held

/* Written  7:57 pm  Nov 11, 1992 by dte@peg.apc.org in igc:gn.tribalsurvi */
/* ---------- "T Jalong (SAM) passport held" ---------- */
/* Written  7:54 pm  Nov 11, 1992 by dte in peg:rainfor.general */
/* ---------- "T Jalong (SAM) passport held" ---------- */
Cc: csherman geo2:bothends gn:ecologist gn:fmartone gn:foenl gn:foetrf
                     Sahabat Alam Malaysia
                    (Friends of the Earth)

PRESS STATEMENT                               11 November 1992


  CONFISCATION OF PASSPORT OF THOMAS JALONG, SAM STAFF MEMBER

Sahabat Alam Malaysia is very surprised and shocked at the
action of the Malaysian immigration authorities in
confiscating the passport of Thomas Jalong, a staff member, at
Subang International Airport on Tuesday night (10 November,
1992).

Mr Jalong was on his way to Japan to attend the meeting of the
International Tropical Timber Organisation (ITTO) and a
seminar of indigenous peoples from Asia and Latin America.
Sahabat Alam Malaysia is accredited as an NGO observer to the
ITTO meeting, and Mr Jalong has attended previous meetings
held in Japan.

No reasons have been given by the immigration authorities, who
merely informed Mr Jalong that he was not allowed to leave the
country. Mr Jalong was told to meet the immigration
authorities in Kuala Lumpur in two weeks time to ascertain the
status of his passport.

Japan is not a restricted country as far as Malaysians are
concerned and SAM sees no reason for this action against Mr
Jalong. We shall be contacting the immigration authorities for
clarifications on the matter.

S.M. Mohd. Idris
President

Sahabat Alam Malaysia, 19 Kelawei Road, 10250 Penang, Malaysia
Tel: +604 376 930/ Tel & Fax: +604 375 705
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
From: nguyen@turing.scs.carleton.ca (H.H. Nguyen)
Subject: Re: US-Vietnam Normalization
Organization:  Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:29:23 GMT

In article <9211060137.AA12180@suna7.cs.uiuc.edu> becherer@SUNA0.CS.UIUC.EDU (Max Becherer) writes:
>
.... deleted stuffs ....
>
>   These are PRECICELY the conditions under which the United States should
>restore relations with Vietnam.  What, I would like to ask, is wrong with
>that ?  Why shouldn't freedom and human rights be preconditions to normal
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^           
>relations ?  That's the problem with so many Western countries; we are all
>to willing to overlook the abuses of our allies and trading pertners, and
>then we wonder why we have so many enemies.
>
>> The domestic debate in American contrasts sharply with that in Australia.
>> Since 1983 the Labor Government has avidly sought to develop a robust
>> relationship with Vietnam. After the signing of the Cambodian Peace
>> Agreement, Australia was the first Western country to restore direct
>> bilateral aid. Australia is presently the fourth largest investor in
				^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Vietnam. Australia has also opposed punitive US actions in the World Bank
>> and International Monetary Fund to deny Vietnam development assistance.
>
>
... deleted stuffs ...
>
>    What is wrong with expecting progress on human rights in Vietnam before
>we send aid?  Aid implies approval, and I'm sure none of the people supporting
>aid to Hanoi would approve of similar aid and trade for Pretoria.  Why the
>double standard ?
>
>                                     Max Becherer


	Max,

	It seems to me that you don't realize that the American
trade embargo against Vietnam also hurts somebody's making profits,
big bucks in Vietnam, among them are the Australians investors.   

	Between big bucks already invested, profits expected to be
made and the human rights denied to somebody else, something has to 
be of lower priority.    

	It seems that you, Max, are not talking in the merchants'
profit-driving language.  Then how can you expect to be understood
by the merchants ? 

	Regards,
	H.H. Nguyen
From: tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM (Nhan Tran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Subject: NEWS/VN: AT&T reopen direct phone link to VN
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:10:40 GMT
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11/11

US, Vietnam sign phone deal after embargo eased

    By Kathleen Callo
    HANOI, Nov 11, Reuter -  U.S. telecommunications giant American Telephone
and Telegraph <T.N> signed an agreement with Vietnam's state-run telephone
company to reopen direct telephone links for the first time since the Vietnam
war.
    The move was made possible after the U.S. Treasury eased the embargo last
week by lifting a ban on direct payments by American companies to Vietnam for
telephone calls.
    The United States allowed resumption of direct phone links last April, but
said U.S. telephone payments for Vietnam had to go into blocked accounts
pending a full lifting of the embargo.
    Vietnam refused to set up direct phone links under those conditions, saying
it lacked the cash to cover its own costs for U.S.-Vietnamese calls under the
blocked account system.
    But James Hansen, ATT's Managing Director for Southeast Asia, told Reuters
in Hanoi that the U.S. Treasury Department notified U.S. telephone companies
last week that it had eliminated the blocked account system and would now allow
U.S. companies to make telephone payments directly to Vietnam.
    "It was Treasury that notified U.S. companies of the elimination of the
blocked account requirement...we think that's great. We are favourably disposed
to that," he said.
    He signed an ATT agreement later in the day with Dang Van Than, the head of
Vietnam's Directorate General of Posts and Telecommunications (DGPT) to open
direct telephone links via satellite beginning tomorrow.
    Hansen said the Treasury Department said U.S. telephone payments for
Vietnam that had already been put in blocked accounts could now be released.
    Than told reporters at the agreement signing ceremony that Washington's
move to lift the direct payments restriction was a sign of improving relations
between the two countries and would help push that process ahead.
    Other smaller, private U.S. carriers were also in Hanoi today negotiating
with DGPT to establish phone links.
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:45:24 -0500
From:         cameronb@CC.SNOW.EDU
Subject:      burma

I have read with a great deal of interest the postings in the past week or
so about the situation in Vietnam and the situation which exists there now.
 I have been eldified and occasionally inspired by the disputation over
whether or not relations between US and VN should be normalized.  I'm glad
people are so interested in the future of the country.
        Who is talking about the situation in Burma?  Who's *doing*
anything about it?  Where can I learn more?
Cameron J. Beatty
English as a Second Language
Snow College
Ephraim, UT  84627
(801) 283-4021 x650

internet:  cameronb@cc.snow.edu
From: 3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (Elliott Parker)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Subject: TH: Cabinet reaffirms helmet law
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:29:12 GMT
Organization: Central Michigan University
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=======================  Forwarded  Message  ===========================
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 00:16:42+0700
From: Kamol Hengkietisak <kamol@ipied.tu.ac.th>


THE Cabinet yesterday confirmed its plan to enforce the use of
motorcycle crash helmets from December 15, but agreed to exempt
their use on Bangkok's back streets.

Enforcement of the law in rural provinces will come later.

Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai said the Interior Ministry would
issue a royal decree governing the use of helmets after the
Cabinet decision yesterday.

Tight security was ordered around Government House yesterday as
the Cabinet discussed the new safety measures following a threat
by motorcycle taxis to protest the new ruling.

The new law requires all motorcyclists in Bangkok and adjoining
areas to wear crash helmets as of December 15. Motorcyclists in
the rest of the country will be required to follow suit a year
later.

Motorcycle taxi operators have voiced strong opposition to the new
regulation, saying the requirement is being introduced at their
expense, particularly as they will have to provide helmets for
passengers as well.

Police were ordered to set up road checkpoints at several spots in
Bangkok and around Government House in anticipation that the
motorcyclists would stage a second protest following the rowdy
gathering in front of Parliament last week. None turned up
however.

Mr Chuan said the Government would have to explain to the public
that the wearing of crash helmets would not prevent accidents but
would reduce the rate of mortality and serious injuries caused in
road accidents.

The Interior Ministry has been assigned to launch an education
campaign.

The quality standard of the headgear must also be improved, he
said.

He said the Interior Ministry must ensure that a royal decree was
issued in time for the new regulation to take effect.

The Prime Minister said government agencies would take care of
motorcyclists who try to stir up unrest in protest against the
requirement.

Interior Minister Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyudh said his ministry
would launch its campaign while changes are made to the royal
decree to exempt crash helmet use in sois.

Permanent Secretary for the Interior Anant Anantakul said the
ministry would issue a ministerial regulation specifying which
back streets and sois would be exempt from the requirement.
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