HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Subject: Re: Drinkable mass market wines?
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:05:13 GMT


In article <1992Dec13.013821.1093@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>,
pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
|>
|>Are there any?
|>
|>I'm looking for tolerable wines that one can find in most liquor stores
|>(in the U.S.) for under $7 a bottle.  I thought I'd give Gallo a chance,
|>just to be fair, but there was a seam in the cork and the stuff tasted
|>like wine that has been opened for quite a while.  I have found some
|>good Ste. Michelle and Charles Krug for under $7, but they are not always
|>available in unenlightened booze marts.

Ste. Michelle would have been my suggestion.

For chardonnay, Fetzer Sundial is good value for the money.

Just about anything by Mountain View is a good value and drinkable, but they're
not really mass market.  Don't pass them up if you see them, though.

--PSW
From: rshapiro@bbn.com (Richard Shapiro)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: rye whiskey (was: CC Classic vs Crown Royal)
Date: 18 Dec 92 10:03:27
Organization: BBN, Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: kariba.bbn.com
In-reply-to: bsmith@crustacean.osf.org's message of 10 Dec 92 21:46:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.214613.12416@osf.org> bsmith@crustacean.osf.org (Bruce Smith) writes:
   Is Canadian whiskey = to rye whiskey?


No, Canadian is not rye. There isn't much rye whiskey on the market
these days. The one with the most rye flavor is Old Overholt, but
don't expect much finesse. For better balance overall, if less rye
taste, I'd recommend Wild Turkey Rye. This is my personal favorite.
Two other brands you may find are Pikesville Rye (undistinguished,
imho) and Jim Beam Rye (never tried it). 

   Has anyone
   tried any straight Canadian; that is, the equivalent of a single malt?
   *Is* there an equivalent?

I believe all Canadian whiskey is blended, so there's no equivalent.
You can get straight US corn whiskey, but I don't know why you'd want
to.
From: peter@icad.com (Peter Masters)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: ports
Date: 10 Dec 92 21:59:33 GMT
Organization: ICAD Inc., Cambridge, MA

In article <1992Dec4.162233.437@ncar.ucar.edu> shan@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Val Shanahan) writes:

   My favorite "affordable" port is Fonseca Bin 27.  It can be had around here
   for $10 a bottle on sale, $13 to $14 regular price.  I know there are better
   ports out there, but I can't always afford them, so Bin 27 is my best bet.

I missed the original post, so I don't know what I'm talking about,
but since the subject is port, I won't let that stop me...

I find Bin 27 a little too sweet and raisiny for my taste.  Instead,
for the last couple of years I've relied on Quinta do Infantado Ruby,
at $12.95 (and the Fonseca is more like $15-$18 here in Boston
nowadays).  It's obviously not one of the standard labels, but I do
recommend it if you see it.  It is a bit drier and considerably more
tannic than anything else I've encoutered in the price range.

On a more mundane level, Warre's Warrior is cheaper than the Fonseca
and less raisiny if no less sweet.  

For tawny, if that's not out of the question, I like Cockburn's 10
year old.  About $20.  It's very pale, with a sweet nose with maple
syrup notes, but a rather dry finish.  I prefer it to the Taylor 10
year old, for example, which is sweeter, redder, and more expensive,
and to me tastes too young for a 10 year old.

I also like Delaforce "His Emininence' Choice", a tawny.  A little
sweeter than the Cockburn, but delicate and complex.  Also the best
label in the business.  About $15.

Does anybody out there know and like any California "ports"?

Peter Masters
peter@icad.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mhulsey@hestia.fcs.uga.edu (Martin Hulsey)
Subject: Re: The Power of Prevention (was: Animal Experiments)
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: Dept. Foods & Nutrition, Univ. of GA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:56:56 GMT

In article <tara.724439627@starburst.umd.edu>, tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara
McDermott) wrote:
> 
> Animal researchers would like us to believe that without vivisection
> we would still be living in the dark ages.

I'm certainly not one of them.  I'm trying to argue that prevention and
treatment are *both* important.  Animal research has contributed greatly to
both aspects of disease control.

The animal "rights" movement regards animal research as unethical
exploitation, so numerous tactics are engaged to discredit its contribution
to human and animal health.  These deceptions are most effective on younger
people who have scarcely heard of once-common diseases such as smallpox,
rickets, tuberculosis, pellagra, polio, beriberi, diphtheria and rabies.

>It is certainly true that
> life-expectancy has increased dramatically over the past hundred
> years, but is this really due to animal experiments?

To deemphasize the importance of medical research using animals, opponents
point to advances in sanitation and nutrition as a cause for our increased
longevity.  Little do they realize the role that animal research played in
these advances as well.

If not for the pioneering animal work of Jenner, Koch and Pasteur, the
importance of sanitation in the prevention of disease would not have been
discovered.

Koch used guinea pigs to determine the fundamental criteria for proving
that microbes cause disease.  He isolated a microbe from lesions of a
diseased animal, and grew the microbe in culture.  Subsequent inoculation
of a healthy animal with the cultured microbe, caused the disease in that
animal.

Among Jenner's many contributions was the process of vaccination.  The
etymology of the word vaccine comes from the Greek word vaccus or cow. 
Pasteur used dogs to develop vaccines for rabies.  Today, animals are not
required to produce all vaccines, but they are still required to test their
effectiveness and safety.

The Golden Age of Nutrition followed the Golden Age of Microbiology. 
Pioneers in nutrition developed postulates to relate nutrients to the
deficiency symptoms they alleviated.  These postulates were analogous to
those employed by Koch.  This is more than a coincidence, because one of
these pioneers, Eijkman, studied in Koch's laboratory. 

--
mhulsey@hestia.fcs.uga.edu                      Society for Neuroscience
Martin G. Hulsey                              National Rifle Association
Dept. Foods & Nutrition      Society for the Study of Ingestive Behavior
University of Ga.    North American Association for the Study of Obesity
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: Vegan Recipes Wanted
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 16:54:42 GMT

Hi!
 
I'm looking for recipes for the following things:
 
Rum Cake
A Vegetarian Main dish that won't make my boyfriend's parents run screaming
from the table to being to their house for Xmas 
 
Thanks!
 
Clover
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,talk.politics.animals
Subject: Vegetarian Fast Food Campaign
Date: 16 Dec 92 00:35:00 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

This file may be redistributed at will, on or off the net.

The following information is copied from brochureds put out by 
the North American Vegetarian Society.

"The NAVS has launched the 'VEGETARIAN EXPRESS Fast Food 
Campaign" to help prompt 11 of the largest fast food chains
to provide low-fat, no-cholesterol, meat-free, fish-free
dairy-free, low-sodium entrees--meals that would appeal to
the average consumer, the health conscious and those concerned
about the welfare of animals and the environment.  Preferably,
such entrees would have no or minimal amounts of preservatives
as well.

"You can help make vegetarian entrees possible at fast food
restaurants even if you eat only occassional meatless meals.
Send your signature, name and address to:  NAVS, PO Box 72,
Dolgeville NY 13329, and NAVS will count you as a consumer
who wants all-plant vegetarian entrees."

Personally written letters targeted at specific companies,
however, have far more impact than a list of names.  You
can call or write one of the following fast food chains
(listed in IMHO order of importance) to tell them you want
an all-plant entree with no meat, fish, fowl, eggs or 
dairy, and little or no preservatives.  Send copies of your
correspondence to NAVS.

NAVS reccomends all letters and calls be upbeat and possitive--
after all, what we want is an upbeat and positive alternative!

-------

McDonald's 
Campus Office Building
Kroc Drive
Oak Bridge, IL 60521
(708) 575-3000

Burger King 
17777 Old Cutler Road
Miami FL 33157
1 (800) 937-1800

Wendy`s 
4288 West Dublin Granville Rd
PO Box 256
Dublin OH 43021
1 (800)243-1846

---------

For more detailed information on the VEGETARIAN EXPRESS Fast Food
Campaign, or for a copy of NAVS's petition form, contact NAVS
at NAVS PO BOX 72, Dolgeville NY 13329, United States.  They
can also provide the full list of 11 targeted fast food chains.

NAVS is the best place to contact for more info, but I do have
a more complete file (including all 11 addresses/phone numbers,
and the full text of NAVS's petition form) which I can send you
if you contact me at:   Red_Trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu

Once again:  this file can be redistributed at will, on or off
the net.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: claudiak@i88.isc.com (Claudia Kale (STG))
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:01:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.061749.24872@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.195033.5723@i88.isc.com> claudiak@i88.isc.com (Claudia Kale (STG)) writes:
>
>>I am also baffled about your concern over the volume of postings by
>>Mr. Dyer and Mr. Young. I think that if somebody really cared to count
>>the words contributed by various posters, they'd find that Mr. Dyer
>>and Mr. Young *combined* have posted fewer words than (say) Mr. Altar,
>>or Michael Traub, or Abhay Bulsari. So what has the volume of one's
>>postings got to do with anything? I am most emphatically *not* trying
>>to speak on behalf of Rich, Steve, Ted, Michael or Abhay - all of
>>those posters have ably proven that they can do that for themselves!
>>Nor am I trying to say that any of these guys posts too much. I am
>>just pointing out that the volume of one's postings has absolutely
>>nothing to do with the validity of one's comments.
>
>This is a forum for vegetarian issues. If someone takes a lot of
>trouble to post a large volume and is not a vegetarian, I would
>question his/her credibility.
>
>Abhay

That is certainly your perogative. But within my experience, being
a vegetarian does not automatically endow one with "credibility".
Cavalierly dismissing a thought simply because its speaker does
not share your dietary habits reflects a mind closed to any
perspective but its own. Do you also believe that men can never
be credible obstetricians or gynecologists because they don't
live the experiences of their patients?

As I said in part of the posting Abhay clipped, a piece of evidence
ought to stand or fall on its own merits, not because the person
who uttered it is Type X.

Cheers,
Claudia
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Organically grown foods (was Re: What's the Best Juicer)
Date: 20 Dec 92 18:31:56 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

If organically grown foods do taste better, are better for the environment,
and everything else, then I wonder why fertilizers and pesticides are
used at all. There's got to be some profit-motivated reason, but I don't
know what it is.

I dislike the dyes and waxes used to make produce appear to be something
it is not. There is nothing unhealthy about it, but it is dishonest because
dyes and waxes misrepresent the quality of the produce to the consumer.
From: glen@slate.cs.wisc.edu (Glen Ecklund)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: water filters
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:02:14 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

Judy Gerber <SPKBB@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>Can anyone recommend a good water filter. I don't care if the filter
>is charcoal, because, even though thousands of years ago,  charcoal
>may have come from animal sources, everything on the earth has absorbed
>animal, vegetable and mineral sources.These animals were not exploited
>or tortured by mankind, but are part of the natural evolution ofall things.
>thank you.

If you can install it in-line, go to your local lumber yard/hardware store/
home improvement store, and get the "whole-house" sized filter.  I put
one on the main house water supply, except for the outside faucets.  I have
a paper filter in that one to keep particles from filling the water heater
and softener, and from clogging the faucet screens, shower head, and
the second filter (below).
I put the second filter housing with a charcoal filter on the line to
the kitchen sink.  It takes the chlorine out of the drinking water.
With that standard size, you don't have to buy special filters from a certain
manufacturer.
The housings are cheap (US$20-30), the filters are cheap ($3-8) and they last a
long time because they're bigger than most filters. 
-- 
Every child shall be treated with complete respect.

Glen Ecklund     glen@cs.wisc.edu   (608) 262-1318 Office, 262-1204 Dept. Sec'y
Department of Computer Sciences        1210 W. Dayton St., Room 3355
University of Wisconsin, Madison       Madison, Wis. 53706  U.S.A.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tgeorge@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (timothy.d.george)
Subject: A confession
Keywords: veggie
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:53:03 GMT


I confess.

There are no real vegetarians. Those who claim they are vegetarians are lying
to others or to themselves.

The scientific evidence is in: a vegetarian diet will kill you in 127 days
(a proven FACT). A vegan diet will kill you in 95 days (not proven, but well
known, and anyway it's vegetarian so 127 days stands.)

Like many who post to rec.food.veg, I used to claim I was a vegetarian: I 
thought I was. Most of you are probably misled that way.

My wife finally confronted me with the hideous truth: I was sleep-walking to 
the local burger chain each night and scarfing down burgers. At first I denied
it, just like I ignored the FACT that vegetarian diets kill you. Then, after
years of therapy, I admitted my weakness and admitted that vegetarians don't 
exist.

Now, I proudly go to my local burger chain three times a week and fill up on
wholesome meat-nutrients. You would all do well to follow my example.

 		:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Smileys provided so that this will not be taken out of context and quoted over
and over on talk.politics.animals and alt.mcdonalds as a serious confession.


					- Tim
					a pizzo-gardenburgero vegetarian
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: I'm gone / contact me for info/ with info
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:50:29 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

To anyone who might have been planning to e-mail me in the next
week or so:  be forewarned I'll be off on vacation.  You can still e-mail
me, just don't expect a reply for a while.

Once again:  I have a 173 (?) line file on NAVS's campaign to encourage
fast food chains to add plant-based vegan entrees to their menu --
all 11 targeted chains are listed with addresses and phone numbers
(including McDonald's Burger King and Wendy's).  This file also includes
the text of the petition form NAVS uses.  Contact me if you want this
file.

Also: I'm thinking of putting together a list of EXCLUSIVELY VEGAN
resturants.  I know of one in the Washington DC area (The Vegetable
Garden, third floor of the White Flint shopping mall a couple of 
blocks north of the White Flint Metro stop in Rockville, MD).
Who knows of others?  E-mail me!   I'd rather focus on the United
States, just to keep this down to manageable size --  at least for
now.

Remember:  EXCLUSIVELY VEGAN resturants only -- none that sell any
animal products.  (Though, by extremely picky standards, even the 
Vegetable Garden wouldn't fit here since their fortune cookies do
contain some eggs.  But the cookies are their only exception to 
an otherwise exclusively vegan menu).

and that's resturants, not health food stores etc (tho possibly at
soooommme point in the future, I'd consider putting together a
separate list for this kind of thing too).  Nationwide and international-
level vegan (not vegetarian) associations and newsletters, though,
would be welcome.  Please, no local vegan associations -- I don't
want to get swampped here.  Thanks.

--Andrea
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: McDonalds Veggie burger
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:13:37 GMT
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA

In article <1g6h6jINNf54@morrow.stanford.edu> andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest) writes:
>The article I saw said there were no plans to market it in the US
>and quoted two or three business analysts who said that there would
>be a miniscule customer base for it here.  Fools.  There may not be
>that many of us, but whoever gets that veggie burger first will get
>all the veggie fast food business.
>
Does anyone have an 800 number for McD's?  Maybe we could start a phone-in
campaign like the one we did for Burger King a while back. 

(BTW, in Seattle, more and more local non-chain burger places are starting
to offer veg burgers - Red Robin (well, I guess that's sort of a chain),
Zesto's, and some others whose names I can't remember.)
------
Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.ca.boeing.com  // ....uw-beaver!bcsaic!voodoo!das
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 16 Dec 1992 09:21:34 EST
From: Judy Gerber <SPKBB@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: water filters

Can anyone recommend a good water filter. I don't care if the filter
is charcoal, because, even though thousands of years ago,  charcoal
may have come from animal sources, everything on the earth has absorbed
animal, vegetable and mineral sources.These animals were not exploited
or tortured by mankind, but are part of the natural evolution ofall things.
thank you.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Oganic Foods "Non-essential"???
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 07:44:57 GMT

George B. Clark writes:

>The FDA's annual pesticide residue study was just released.
>66.8% of more than 18,000 tested fruits and vegetables had no pesticide
>residues at all. 31.6% had residues below allowable federal limits. Only
>1.5% contained measurable levels.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Don't you mean to report that 1.5% were ABOVE allowable federal limits?

Anyway, I'm glad to see you cite some facts and figures and indeed,
these are encouraging figures.  2/3 having no measurable pesticide
levels is an improvement and one that maybe we can give some
credit to the public concern about pesticides in the first place,
as misplaced as that concern might have been, since it did serve
to encourage more stringent federal limits and restrictions.
I'm always glad to see some good news in an otherwise bad news
human world  :-)

					Happy Holiday Season,

                                           ted
.
From: ablum@unlinfo.unl.edu (abraham blum)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Tef grain
Date: 20 Dec 1992 19:53:12 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu
Summary: -
Keywords: tef grain food Ethiopia




Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Dick Gregory and Vegetarian Pets
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:52:06 GMT


Dick Gregory, the well-known comedian turn pacifist wrote:

     People are funny about their pets and their pets' diet.
     When you suggest to some folks that they ought to try
     putting their dogs and cats on a meatless diet, they will
     respond as though their little pets had never been
     domesticated!  They will say, "Dogs and cats are supposed to
     eat meat.  After all, they're descended from tigers and
     wolves!"  Of course, if there was any real practicing line
     of descent, the chances are the pets would already have
     consumed their owners and their owners' kids!
     
     . . . Some pet owners, who would object to the killing of
     animals for the human diet, justify their purchasing meat
     from the butchers fro their pets' consumption because the
     pets are natural carnivores.  So they feed their pets beef,
     horse meat, pork, lamb, liver and all other forms of butcher
     shop raw meat.  But that is not the "natural" raw meat diet
     of the carnivorous pet!  To be consistent, such a pet owner
     would feed a dog raw rabbit, or chicken, or any of the small
     animals or birds the pet would naturally seize as prey.
     
     Sometimes a pet owner will rationalize, "I tried giving my
     pet fruits and vegetables and more natural foods, but it
     preferred the canned pet food."  It never seems to occur tot
     he pet owner that the dog would prefer to relieve itself on
     the carpet, and would probably prefer NOT to roll over and
     play dead!  Pet owners think nothing of housebreaking a dog,
     or training it to do tricks or to attack unwanted visitors;
     in short, to do things for the owner's benefit.  But the
     same owner resists changing a pet's diet for the pet's
     benefit, and training the pet to eat it!
     
          (from DICK GREGORY'S NATURAL DIET FOR FOLKS WHO EAT:
          COOKIN' WITH MOTHER NATURE.  N.Y.: Harper & Row, 1973)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: artemis@netcom.com (Michelle Dick)
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:35:21 GMT

In article <tara.724656637@starburst.umd.edu> tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott) writes:
>This of course only applies to those who agree that plants suffer
>horribly by being harvested and eaten.  I wonder if the kosher people
>know about this angle.  They had better devise a way of slowly
>torturing plants to fit in with their religious beliefs when it comes
>to devouring plant food!

Are you this hateful toward all people or just Jews?  Might I ask that
you not comment on that which you do not understand.

--
Michelle Dick
artemis@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg