From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: compromise (was Re: Back Again To Father Notification...
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 21:13:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.163937.5772@u.washington.edu>
rons@hardy.u.washington.edu (Ronald Schoenberg) writes:
>In article <7560136@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> erik@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Erik Lode) writes:
>>rons@hardy.u.washington.edu (Ronald Schoenberg) writes:
>>
>>> I don't have to be a bleepin' feminist to explain it to you.  Men
>>> control wealth and they control access to it.

>>  So, where do I sign up for the wealth that you claim is my birthright?
>>
>
>Get an MBA from Stanford and join a large corporation.

The only person I can think of offhand who has an MBA from Stanford is
a woman (a college classmate).  I don't know who she works for.

>  Start a
>company and work hard.

I co-founded a company a few years ago.  My partner was (and still is
:-) a woman.  She was President, I was Vice-President.  These days,
companies owned and run by women get preferential treatment in many
cases.

>  Marry the daughter of a wealthy man or be his
>son.

See below.

>  There are lots of ways for a man to acquire control of wealth,
>but almost no ways for a women to.

So far you've given no examples of this.

>  Even if she is born to a wealthy
>man, he will give the control of it to his son.

So marrying the daughter of a wealthy man won't work, but you claimed
above that it would.

>  Marrying the son of a
>wealthy man won't help because you can bet he will keep control of it.

Which he?  Her husband will keep control for a while, but she'll
probably outlive him and inherit it.

>She can get an MBA but it won't help because the men in control of the
>corporation won't promote her above a certain level (the "glass
>curtain").

Evidence?  Things seem to work differently around here.  (But I notice
that I'm posting from .com and you're from .edu.)

>  That you haven't gotten your wealth is your fault.

Partly bad luck.  Some years back I made the single worst business
decision of the twentieth century.  Of course, at the time I didn't
realize it was much of a business decision.

>  That
>any woman hasn't acquired control of wealth isn't her fault (mostly),

With the exception of professional sports (which isn't open to most
men, either) any avenue I can think of that's open to men is also open
to women.

>but is the fault of a social system that favors men.

Not that I've seen.

>With respect to any issue, there is a difference between my personal
>reaction and my understanding of the larger forces responsible for
>what happened.  If I am mugged by some homeless man or drug addict,
>I'll be very angry about it and if given a chance to react I would, but
>I'm not going to scapegoat the perpetrator by ignoring the fact that
>they are really a victim of our economic system. 

No, you're making a scapegoat of our economic system, instead of
blaming the guilty perpetrator.

>But you misunderstand my point.  Women use their leverage to force men
>to support them and their children.  They do this because our
>economic/social system prevents them from developing ways to support
>themselves.

No it doesn't.  Note that a single counterexample would disprove your
claim, and I know of several.

>>> If men as a whole would give up their control of wealth, give women a
>>> chance to earn their own way - and this would require decent child
>>> care at a price that doesn't completely negate their salaries - then I
>>> suspect that the need for women to exercise their leverage would disappear.

There is no "need" for women to exercise their leverage.  For those
who do, they do so because they want to (presumably, it's the easiest
way for them).  If women could do as well as men in the working world
(they do, given equal education, experience, and effort, but you don't
believe that), some women would do so; others would do whatever they
think is easiest.

If I could maintain my current income level without working, I'd
choose to do so.

>  From my own experience, for any man
>who wants children, my advice would be to choose whom you marry very
>carefully and plan to remain married until at least the children are
>out of college.

I wouldn't consider marrying anyone I didn't plan to remain married to
for the rest of our lives.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion,alt.feminism