From: mpb@nomad.JPL.NASA.gov (Michael Batchelder)
Subject: Flaming Jobst and Les (Was: Team Motorola)
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:56:36 GMT

In article <C0Dz5t.3E6@cs.uiuc.edu>, tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:

|> les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:

....

|> Big difference between self-assured and self-promoting.  Both you and
|> Jobst seem to believe your every word is written in stone.  And you
|> are both often rude about expressing this.  I'm not surprised you chose
|> to defend Jobst.  It's probably what you'd like to believe about 
|> the reasons for your freqeunt roastings.
|> 
|> >However, few people learn anything from meta-discussions such as
|> >this one, so I suggest that we let it fade away.
|> >Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
|> >Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
|> >UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
|> 
|> Now that you got your .02 cents in everyone else should back off? Dream on
|> Les.
|> -Terry

Whoa!  C'mon guys.  Kinder, gentler net in '93?  I think it's difficult
to pronounce someone an egomaniac w/o standing in their shoes.  Yes, Jobst
and maybe even Les has been known to be snide-sounding on occasion, but,
as we all know, when some person(s) fills your mailbox with flames, even
the coolest, most mature folk can get annoyed and start snapping back.  Or
whatever the case, it's pretty easy to misinterpret people's tones thru
email.  I've sent stuff to people who thought I was being obnoxious when
I was only trying to be helpful and had only good intentions.  And vice
versa-- gotten stuff that sounded offensive when the sender only wanted
to give advice or info they thought I needed/wanted.

Moreover, Les, being an eye to the USCF is, IMHO, invaluable.  He's
as close as I get to the inner workings of an organization that I
tend to feel distanced from.  There's not a lot of glamour in bureacracy
unless you're at the top of the pile, and we racers owe a lot to
the organizers like Les who really make the races go.  Attempting to
flame/silence someone like Les or Jobst doesn't create an atmosphere
where people want to share info/experiences.  Hey, I've been on the
opposite side of the fence from a Jobst opinion, but that's one way
to learn stuff, and I have learned stuff from Jobst regardless of any
"attitude" he may or may not have.  I don't want to see Jobst, Les, or
anyone get so annoyed w/ Usenet that they drift off--bringing people
together is the strenght of a group, and how we all learn from each other.

If you want to take issue with someone factually, great.  Debates with
good evidence are a great way for people to learn from the collective
net knowledge, and there's certainly lots, and lots everyone can learn.
But involving personalities in debates is a no-win situation that doesn't
accomplish anything.  If you think someone's got an attitude, try to
filter the facts out, or just let it slide and leave it alone--a skill
we all should actively practice.  And if you really can't deal, then
follow the advice of Mike "$?Dave_Harvey" Johnston: break out the
kill file.

Michael