HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Powerbook, Price Club, pricing
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:14:42 GMT

In article <NICK.92Jul22123239@vaila.ed.ac.uk>, nick@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) writes:
> 
> In article <gH7ZNB7w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
> 
>    It seems that everyone either wants a minimal cost, minimal
>    size, minimal weight machine -- in which case they get a 100 -- or something
>    as powerful as possible -- in which case they get a 170.
> 
> Unless they want a reasonably powerful machine but *not* the crappy, faulty
> Active Matrix screen, in which case they buy a 140, like me.

I can't stand the screen on the 140, but love the screen on the 170.  The 140's
screen either puts a tail on the cursor or submarines the cursor.  With the 170,
the cursor is always visible, and never has a comet tail as does the 140 and 100
screen.  The only problem with the 170's screen is that pixels sometimes die, but
when five of the 256,000 (about 0.0002 percent of them) die, Apple will replace
the screen for free, under warranty or AppleCare.  I can live with that.  However,
I don't particularly care for that monitor either (IMO, no LCD monitor comes
anywhere close to the visibility of a good CRT), so I haven't bought any portable
or laptop computer.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: mikew@kpc.com (Mike Wexler)
Subject: PMMU for LC?
Reply-To: mikew@kpc.com
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computers Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:07:20 GMT

Can you install a PMMU on an LC so that you can use the virtual memory
capabilities of System 7? Can you run A/UX on an LC? If you have
a PMMU on an LC can you have more than 10 megs of Virtual Memory?
--
Mike Wexler (mikew@kpc.com)
From: peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org (Michael Peirce)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Some questions about Powerbook 100?
Date: 25 Jul 92 02:54:30 GMT
Reply-To: peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org (Michael Peirce)
Organization: Peirce Software
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4


In article <1992Jul24.180640.19945@midway.uchicago.edu> (comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware), news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) writes:
> Hello, netters!
> 
>  I have some questions about power book 100(4/40).
>  I hope these are not FAQ.
> 
>  1) Can I choose system 6.0.7 instead of system 7.0.1?
>     (This will be used as a second computer.)

Yes, but its not "officially" supported.

>  2) Is there a adaptor so that I can have two serial port.
>    (I'd like to use modem and stylewriter at the same time.)

No, but you can have an internal modem that leave the external serial
port free (for your printer or a network connection).

>  4) Do I need second battery and recharger? Are they recommended?

Depends on how you use it.  I'd get a second battery long before I
bought a second charger.

>  5) Are there any usefule cdev or init for powerbook 100?

Sure.  Course I'm not sure what they are :-)

--  Michael Peirce      --   peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org
--  Peirce Software     --   Suite 301, 719 Hibiscus Place
--                      --   San Jose, California USA 95117
--  Makers of...        --   voice: (408) 244-6554 fax: (408) 244-6882
--            SMOOTHIE  --   AppleLink: peirce & America Online: AFC Peirce
From: sho@gibbs.physics.purdue.edu (Sho Kuwamoto)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: a non-techie view of Newton
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:57:14 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department

In article <0105011F.978hg5@dragon.enigami.mv.com> cory@enigami.mv.com writes:
>>						  And what exactly is the
>>point of having the signatures stored electronically,
>>anyway?
>
>Imagine tracing a package: from the terminal, the operator could pop-up
>the signature -- the day after it was signed.  The signature may have
>been made in New Hampshire, with the operator being located in Los
>Angelos.  

Imagine UPS already has your signature on file.  (You sign
for something once, your signature is in their computer)
The operator could pop up the signature, regardless of
whether you had received your package or not.

Not saying they would, but it raises questions about the
usefulness of digitized signatures.  

-Sho
--
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.apps
From: mnc0678@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.N. Cannava )
Subject: Re: NEEDED: Recommendations!
Originator: mnc0678@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:36:14 GMT

In article <24908@dog.ee.lbl.gov> sichase@csa2.lbl.gov writes:
>
>Now Menus is terrific.  It also has the nice feature of allowing you
>to click anywhere on the desktop to get a copy of the menubar complete with
>the open applications list.  This is similar to how the the GUI works on 
>SparcStations.  I like it.
>

I have gotten numerous praises for NowMenus, and absolutely nothing
negative. This is definitely something that I shall add to my "MUST
GET!" list.

Oh, I have been reminded of a few other programs which I neglected to
mention in my original summary, so let me include them here:

------------
from greeny@top.cis.syr.edu (j.s. greenfield)

LaunchPad 1.1.3 (freeware) [soon 2.0 (shareware, $10)] at sumex
   
LaunchPad solves the drop-launching problem without require you to fill
your desktop with applications/aliases.  With LaunchPad, you just place
aliases to all of your drop-launching applications into a folder. Then,
you place an alias to LaunchPad on the desktop.  When you drop items onto
LP, it brings up a "get file" dialog, listing the applications that you
configured. Just double-click on one the apps, and the the dropped items
are opened using the selected application.
------------

------------
from jeremyr@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Jeremy)
  
Apollo 0.8b3 (freeware) [soon 1.0 (shareware)] 

I wrote Apollo. It's free at the moment (current version
0.8b3): version 1.0, in a few months' time, will be shareware.
It does rather more than you requested (it's a launcher along
the lines of On Cue and does application switching). The next
version will have icons in all the menus (optional) and a fully
hierarchical apple menu.
------------


>But there is a shareware cdev called "BeHierarchical" which will give you
>the hierarchical menus for just the shareware fee. I use it on my IIci at work.
> Unfortunately, it does *not* work on my IIci at home, presumably because of
>some conflict with some init or other. I never did figure out why - just
>switched to Now Menus. 
>

I tried BeHierarchical; worked fine on my IIsi. I'll be switching to
NowMenus, though. The recommendations were simply too good!

Again, big thank-you's to everyone who responded!

\marc

Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.misc:14036 comp.sys.mac.system:10503 aus.mac:853
From: glb@yarra.pyramid.com.au (George Budahazy)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,aus.mac
Subject: Expanding the Name field in Sys 7.0.1
Keywords: How to do?
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:49:10 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp PL, Melb., Australia


 Hello to All,

 Under System 6.0.7 using Norton Utilities(1.0 &2.0) it was possible to expand
 the number of characters shown in the Name field in a folder. Nortons does
 not do this on System 7.
 
 Is it possible to do the same operation in System 7.0.1 another way?
 
 At the moment the limit seems to be around 24 characters where the dots begin
 to be displayed.

 I used this feature to print the list of end of month invoicing.

 Thanks in Advance.

 Regards
      -m-------   George Budahazy - Victorian Engineering Manager 
    ---mmm-----   Pyramid Technology Corporation Pty. Ltd.  fax  +61 3 525 1730
  -----mmmmm---   1st Floor, 553 St. Kilda Road             tel. +61 3 521 3799
 ------mmmmmm--   Melbourne, Victoria, 3004       AUSTRALIA       (03) 521 3799
-------mmmmmmm-   Email Address: glb@yarra.pyramid.com.au
From: jem@hpcupt3.cup.hp.com (Jim McCauley)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:12:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: CLIs that teach; GUIs that don'ty
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
From: mmartin@nmsu.edu (Marilyn Martin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Upgrading
Keywords: system
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:24:23 GMT
Organization: New Mexico State University

How do you upgrade a system from 6.0.3 tp 6.0.5? 

I was going to copy the old system folder, then copy the new system from the
diskettes into the old system folder (not the copy). Then I could use Font/DA tomove any fonts or DAs over.

MM
.
Newsgroups: su.computers,comp.sys.mac.misc
From: pegasus@leland.Stanford.EDU (Betty Lee)
Subject: Shareware OCR software?
Summary: Does one exist?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 00:46:14 GMT

Is there any Shareware or Public Domain OCR software?
I heard someone mention it before, although I didn't believe it.
If it exists, what is the name of it and where could I find it?
(If it doesn't, is anyone working on writing one?  ;-)

-- 
         Betty Lee          | What Every Computer Consultant Needs to Know:
      P. O. Box 5748        |   1) In case of doubt, make it sound convincing.
    Stanford, CA 94309      |   2) Do not believe in miracles.   Rely on them.
Pegasus@Leland.Stanford.EDU |       --Murphy's Computer Laws (Finagle's Rules)
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.misc:13536 comp.sys.mac.system:10182
From: pollard@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu (Tom Pollard)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: IIsi cache stuck at/below 384k
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:53:31 GMT
Organization: Center for Biomolecular Simulation

winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders) writes:
>ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) wrote:
>> 
>> Andris> == Andris Paul Vitols <vito@well.sf.ca.us> 
>> 
>>  Andris> We've got a Mac IIsi running system 6.0.7 w/no inits or
>>  Andris> non-apple cdevs.  I noticed a letter in MacUser saying that you
>>  Andris> should up the cache upwards of a MB to keep video memory and
>>  Andris> the 1st mb or RAM from stepping on each other.  I tried to move
>>  Andris> up the setting for the cache but it won't go any higher than
>>  Andris> 384k.  This is odd 'cause a IIsi right next to it will.  Any
>>  Andris> ideas?
>> 
>> If you're using 8-bit video, 384K should be enough anyway, as I recall.
>> 
>> (Note also that there's a limit on how high the cache can be set, based
>> on how much RAM is in the machine; if this is a 3M machine and the one
>> next to it is 5M or 9M, that could cause this behavior...)
>> --
>
>Apple knows about this problem but is not planning to fix it. This problem
>does not occur with System 7 and does not occur on Macintosh IIsi systems
>running System Software 6.0.x with less than 9MB of RAM.
>
If you have 9Mb or more RAM in your IIsi, then the cache setting should no
longer affect the video speed, anyway, and you can leave it small.  I don't
understand why this is, but we noticed it when we bumped up the RAM on one
of our IIsi's at work.  If you have less than 9Mb, I can't see setting the
cache to 1Mb, unless 8-bit color is crucial for your work, because you've
got little enough RAM to run with, anyway.  My preferred solution, until I
went to 9Mb myself, was to switch back to 4-bit color.  This lets the machine
run at ~90% of its rated speed while leaving you enough color to enjoy.

Tom



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Pollard				Department of Chemistry
pollard@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu		Columbia University
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hopper@cs.ucsd.edu (Steven L. Hopper)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: trouble with ftp.apple.com?
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:51:55 GMT

UC525655@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Mark Eaton) writes:

>Anybody have trouble FTPing to ftp.apple.com lately? Ive tried for two
>days without success... (i get a timeout error, host did not respond)...
> 

I've been noticing this on sumex and mac.archive, but ftp.apple connects
just fine.  I use Xferit which recently is timing out or gets the "call
back later" response, but gopher gets through because of its socket
oriented protocol.  However, the ftp transfers are definately slower
than Xferit.  BTW, when I can't get through to the FTP sites with my mac,
I can always get through with my Sun...



Steve

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: martin@DMI.USherb.CA (Jean-francois Martin)
Subject: Powerbook 100 and the others!!!
Reply-To: martin@DMI.USherb.CA
Organization: Universite de Sherbrooke -- Dept. De Mathematiques et D'Informatique
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:46:04 GMT


I think that by today standards, Apple should drop the Powerbook 100
and by the way the Classic. The latter is by far to slow. The Classic II
would become the entry level mac. After, Apple should come with a Classic IIe
(or something) that would look (in all aspect) to the SE/30 but with
more power.

It's not my opinion, it's only a test to see your reaction to these.

JF Martin
From: jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Powerbook, Price Club, pricing
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:43:20 GMT
Reply-To: jsp@pls.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

umcho000@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Connie Cho) writes:

} In the August '92 Macworld (U.S./Canada) Quick Tips, there is a
}rather in depth advice on what kind of marbles you can buy to
}replace that light little trackball. You need the smoothest 25 mm
}marble you can find. I am going to try out this suggestion to
}find a heavier ball for an Appoint Mouse pen I own. 

I heard this too.  I spent hours carefully looking at marbles in three
different stores, and I still couldn't find one that was really perfectly
smooth.  I bought a couple that were close and tried them out.  It is
true that the heavier marble gives a better feel than the normal trackball,
but even the smallest little dent or rough spot will eventually move over
one of the tiny little rollers and the effect is most disturbing.  I went
back to the light -- but very smooth -- trackball.

--James Preston
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: 901106c@ace.acadiau.ca (TIM CHIPMAN)
Subject: Wanted: Recommendations for simple sys7.0 compatable Screen Saver
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:43:08 GMT


I am looking for a small, simple screen saver that is fully system 7 
compatable. RIght now I am using an old copy of "Pyro" that used to work on 
sys 6.03 but will only blank the screen if forced.

I have already gone rooting about in sumex-aim via ftp, but had no luck.
Probably the program is there; I just couldn't find it in the mountains of 
files there.

Could someone please give me a pointer to a filename/directory/ftp site to 
acquire what I seek?

Thanks!




Tim Chipman                ..................................
901106c@ace.acadiau.ca       ..................................
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: K_LEPA@unhh.unh.edu (Kristen   Lepa)
Subject: Re: Unable to get files out of StuffIt archive
Organization: University of New Hampshire
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:00:51 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.12

In <1992Jul22.083313.20040@raet-sh.UUCP> richard@raet-sh.UUCP writes:

> Hello there,
> 
> I asked this question a while back too, but due to the fact that we lost our
> connection for about 1 month, I am asking it again.
> 
> If have put some of my files in StuffIt (1.5d1) archives with the option
> "Always add as real folders" on. But now StuffIt won't let me get the files
> out of the archives again, saying that it is not a good format (or something
> like that).
> Has anyone got a clue for me how to get my files back again??
> 
> Please help,
> 
> Richard.

There is a bug in one of the StuffIts that sometimes corrupts files.  The
latest version fixes the bug in the program and can un-corrupt the files.
If you suspect this, contact the author to see if you've got that version,
assuming you're a registered user.
	-Kristen


> -- 
> --
> Richard van Denzel	richard%raet-sh!relay.nluug.nl via internet backbone
> RAET Industrie & Handel	uucp: ..!{uunet,sun4nl}!raet-sh!richard
> Eendrachtlaan 10,
From: Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Macs cost too much (NOT!)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 04:29:13 EST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:226/20.18 - cmhGate UF Gateway, Columbus OH

mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:

> deal. At home nobody pays me but I have to pay the computer. So for me the >
386 is the better deal. Were is the problem?
MS>  IOW, your time is valuable to your boss, but not worth much 
MS> to you, right? 

I think he means that he doesn't mind doing the work necessary to get a 386
box running, much in the same way that many people don't mind grabbing a
wrench and fixing up the family car, or fixing their own plumbing or
electrical problems, etc., etc.  Whereas the boss would just call in an
electrician (or other specialist), the guy at home generally rolls his own,
usually for lack of hard cash to do it otherwise.

--Adam--
 
--  
Adam Frix via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH
UUCP: ...!n8emr!bluemoon!cmhgate!20.18!Adam.Frix
INET: Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: drz@po.CWRU.Edu (David R. Zinkin)
Subject: Eudora with kerberos?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 19:57:17 GMT


Does anyone know of a version of Eudora that works with kerberos?
If so, how do I get a copy?  (FTP should be OK, though I'd like to
know of other avenues as well.)
 
Please respond by E-mail as my time for reading this group is
decreasing rapidly.  (Not that my situation is unique... :-)
 
Thank you,
 -- David Zinkin

-- 
David R. Zinkin (drz@po.cwru.edu)           *  "Professor" is a title you
SUNY Buffalo School of Medicine             *   can be given.  "Teacher" is
Rochester General Hospital Radiology Dept.  *   a title you must earn.
CWRU Psychology and Chemistry (WR '92)      *   -- Me, after 4 years at CWRU
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras)
Subject: Re: A/UX 3.0 vs. MachTen 2.0
Organization: Hand Held Products, Inc.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:26:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.012008.23384@utdallas.edu> karches@utdallas.edu (Tom  
Karches) writes:
> In article <3093@ra.nrl.navy.mil> deal@hightop.nrl.navy.mil (Richard Deal)  
writes:
> >In article <1992Jul21.223426.20299@ncar.ucar.edu>  
charlesa@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Charles Albrecht) writes:
> >>(A/UX and MachTen are UNIX implementations for the Macintosh.)
> >>{A/UX is a System V - BSD hybrid, requires 68030 w/PMMU (or 040) (32 bit  
mode) 
> >
> >A/UX also runs on a 68020 with PMMU, 68030 doesn't need a PMMU it is 
> >built in to the chip.
> >
> >-- 
> 
> Also MachTen will run on a PowerBook 140 or 170, A/UX won't.
> 
Unless I'm very mistaken, it'll run on a PowerBook 100!

> Tom Karches
> karches@utdallas.edu
> -- 
> 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tom Karches          |"If rap music had been around when I was a kid,
> karches@holonet.net  | I would have become a musician instead of a  
politician."
> ---------------------'----------------------------------- Richard Nixon

Jim De Arras
From: mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Top Ten Software Rip-offs, 1992-07-27
Date: 31 Jul 92 13:26:33 GMT
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk (Sak Wathanasin) writes:
> Since you are so sporting, you should also add excise duty and shipping
> costs (from USA-UK), since these are included in the UK retailer's
> price.

Not always.  For example, Claris are based in Eire, another EC country.  Yet
their rip-off %ge varies from 5% to 70%.  How does your "excise duty" theory
explain that?

> Moreover, your calculation of exchange rates doesn't take into account the fa
> that the UK distributor is selling you items from stock which was
> bought at a different exchange rate.

The exchange rate has not varied by 70% in years.

> This is not to say that there isn't a rip-off, but I'm not sure why you are
> singling out software: books, CDs &c all have a similar mark-up.

Books have a similar "mark-up" because of the UK's Net Book Agreement, by
which a club of book publishers get together and decide what price shops are
allowed to sell books at.  Now that the NBA is falling apart, shops like
Dillons are selling books more cheaply and the price difference is
disappearing.

It's pretty small anyway, in general.  The only books that are massively more
expensive here than in the US are computer books from big US publishers like
Prentice-Hall.

And CDs are expensive in the UK because we have a cartel.  Mute Records tried
selling most of their back catalogue at 7.99, but the big chain stores like
Our Price and HMV priced them straight up to 13.25.  I shop at a local
independent store, where almost all the CDs are 9.99 -- even some US imports.


mathew
-- 
"Even the most bizarre of the unions (probably that between a cat's gall
 stone and a single note 'G' from CNN's ident theme) managed to convey a
 sense of rampant impropriety."  -- 'Fortran Five', Simon G. Lawrence Leonard
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: lefty@apple.com (Lefty)
Subject: Re: Need something better than SmartQuotes
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:55:26 GMT
Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery

In article <1992Jul20.030455.23483@gcnext.gac.peachnet.edu>,
walton@gcnext.gac.peachnet.edu (Sam Walton) wrote:
> 
> I downloaded Smart Quotes from sumex. It is a mini-app to be used in the 
> Apple menu. Pardon me, but how does another app tell other apps what to 
> type?

I would assume that it patches the GetNextEvent/WaitNextEvent calls and
looks for keyDown events.  When one occurs, the patch examines the
character in the event record, setting a flag if the character typed is a
space and clearing the flag otherwise.

When the character typed is a single-tick or a double-tick, if the flag is
set, the patch substitutes the corresponding opening quote in place of the
character in the event record; if the flag is clear, it substitutes the
corresponding closing quote.

When the patch completes executing, the (possibly altered) event record is
passed on to the application which processes it normally.

--
David "Lefty" Schlesinger (lefty@apple.com)
AppleTalk Bug Wrangler
Apple Computer, Inc.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: nasadk@vccsouth23.its.rpi.edu (Kristopher Martin Nasadowski)
Subject: Re: APPLELINK ?
Reply-To: nasadk@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:07:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.211044.20462@samba.oit.unc.edu>, thorn@phoenix.radonc.unc.edu (Jesse Thorn) writes:
|> 
|> Is it possible to send e-mail to an AppleLink address from a machine
|> on the Internet? If so, how do you do it - how do I format the send-to
|> address? 
|> 

If memory serves me, you send it to applelink.apple.com

For example : userid@applelink.apple.com

I think..... get someone else to verify this.

Nazman
<nasadk@rpi.edu>
From: ih@doc.ic.ac.uk (Ian Harries)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: What's the history behind these icons?
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:33:55 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.misc
Organization: Dept of Computing, Imperial College, University of London UK

In article <1992Jul22.204002.15568@midway.uchicago.edu>,
jcav@quads.uchicago.edu (JohnC) wrote:
> 
> (sorry - I don't know how to mail to UUCP sites)
> In article <4913@gdls.UUCP> parker@gdls.UUCP (The Dougster) writes:
> ...
> I believe these are the official ISO symbols for the keys.  The keyboards
> Apple sells outside the USA have these symbols (and others) on the keycaps.

Only on the extended keyboards, in my (UK) experience - our standard
keyboards have "option" & "enter" on them ...

--
  Ian Harries            Tel: +44 71 589 5111 x5052    Fax: +44 71 581 8024
  Dept of Computing, Imperial College, 180 Queen's Gate, London SW7 2BZ, UK
  Janet: ih@uk.ac.ic.doc    Uucp: ih@icdoc.UUCP or ..!ukc!icdoc!ih        .
  DARPA: ih@doc.ic.ac.uk or ih%uk.ac.ic.doc@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk  . . . . . .
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.misc:13765 comp.periphs.printers:2215 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware:20258