From: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion,soc.men,alt.dads-rights
Subject: Re: Unfounded Allegations Of Sexism
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:24:14 GMT
Reply-To: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com
Organization: Abiogenesis 4 Less

goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves) writes:
# bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt) writes...
# JHW> #    -- goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves)
# JHW> >>   -- bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt)

[ Deletia ]

# JHW> I believe the family courts have been perpetuating unfair gender
# JHW> stereotypes in the meting out of family law, and I even believe that
#      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# 
# How so?  Did you mean "Men should work and pay for the kids, women should
# stay home and support the family"?  I would imagine so.

That and a few other noxious ideas.

# JHW> mainstream feminist organizations have been shamefully lax in
# JHW> promoting change -- my complaints are simply that much of what the
# JHW> men's child custody rights wing of the men's movement has to say
# JHW> grates on my nerves because of the rhetoric they use.  It turns me
# JHW> right off.
# 
# How so?  What sort of rhetoric bothers you?

Yours is a clear example of what grates on my nerves.  Sexist,
anti-feminist pure backlash claptrap most of the time.  Look, men are
being unfairly denied custody of their children in divorce cases
because of sexism in the family law courts.  Women's rights
organizations haven't been particularly quick on the draw to attack
the problem -- big surprise eh?  Anti-sexism isn't as popular among
men as it is among women.  The trouble is that the rhetoric of the
father's rights crowd doesn't really sound anti-sexist to me.  It
sounds very sexist.  How does one defend a lawsuit filed by a man to
stop his soon-to-be ex-wife from having an abortion on the grounds
that a woman's right to an abortion isn't as important as a father's
right to custody of his natural offspring?  How can one do it and
still claim to be anti-sexist?

-----

[More deletia]

-----

# JHW> >>>> Something.  Anything.  Shit or get off the pot, son.  Either decide
# JHW> >>>> you're a Real Man and you can take a little criticism, or get used to
# JHW> >>>> the fact that you're a snivelling little weasel whose only purpose in
# JHW> >>>> life is to keep the Little Woman from ever having to do anything but
# JHW> ###  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# JHW> >>>> look after the children.
# JHW> ###  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# JHW> ###
# JHW> >>       [ Twelve plus lines of defensive 80-column handwaving deleted ]
# JHW> #        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# JHW> #
# JHW> # It was *NOT* "hand-waving" - I had asked you to PROVE your allegation
# JHW> # that my purpose in life is "to keep the Little Woman from ever having
# JHW> # to do anything but look after the children".
# 
# JHW> Yeah, which is why it was `hand-waving.'  I never made such an
# JHW> allegation.  If you will be so kind as to re-read what I wrote (most
# JHW> of which is still quoted above), you may decide that it makes no sense
# JHW> to read the text in question as literal and not metaphorical.  If,
# 
# I have reread it, and I have found it *very* difficult to find something
# metaphorical in "face the fact that you're a snivelling little weasel..."
# It seems *quite* literal, and doesn't really seem to lend itself to a
# metaphorical interpretation.

Jeez-loo-eeze!  Okay -- here, I'll rewrite it for you:

Something.  Anything.  Shit or get off the pot, old bean.  Either
decide you're a renaissance man and your sensibilities can withstand
being ruffled by feminist political discourse, or resign yourself to a
simple existence as a snivelling little weasel whose masculinity
depends entirely on his ability to be a primary breadwinner for his
family -- because if you really do approve of equality for women in
the workplace, you'll learn to accept the fact that equality means
that they have to play by the same rules you do.

Of course, this rewrite is more insulting to you than the original,
but hey -- you asked for it.


-- 
+---------------------------+  ``Man has not a single right which is
| J H Woodyatt              |  the product of anything but might.''
| bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com |                           -- Mark Twain
+---------------------------+