From: briant@tsltor.uucp (Brian Taylor)
Subject: Re: Wyse160 vs IBMPC+Kermit
Organization: Teleride Sage Ltd.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:06:15 GMT

In article <1729@otello.sublink.org> venta@otello.sublink.org (Paolo Ventafridda) writes:
>From article <29D69200.6E33@telly.on.ca>, by evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch):
>> Given this price difference, what advantages does the terminal have
>> over the PC equipped with a current version of MS-DOS Kermit?

We have both configurations in use in our office.

>> This is not meant as a purely rhetorical question. Even a floppy-only PC
>> has flexibility that the Wyse doesn't, and its repairs are easier. Most
>> of all, you don't need PC Term mode under Kermit in order to make the
>> ALT key mean anything. In light of this, what possible advantage could
>> the terminal have going for it?

>Why using a real terminal instead of a PC ? 
>You talk about Wyse, which is also what i use.
>
>1- Cost. A Wyse costs less then a 8088 pc.

Depends on what you classify as an "8088 PC", it's all in the flavouring.
You can get a 'reasonable' 80286 system for < $500 now, including a tiny
hard drive, and CGA (perhaps even VGA) card/monitor. And you can do
local editing on the PC (which I think is a really nice plus).

>2- Screen. Try using a pc monitor (b&w or colour) for 10 hours,
>   and then try using a Wyse. The only difference is that on a good,
>   hi-refreshed screen you don't loose your eyes.
>   You can buy a good monitor for PC, but it costs money.
>   See number 1-.

My eyes go buggy on my Wyse-185 at work, whereas on my VGA at home there
is no eye fatigue that I recognize (I spend about half my time working
from home and the other half in front of the Wyse at work). Sure, a Wyse 370
prevents that, but now we're easily into the price range of a very decent
286/VGA system or better.

>3- Speed. You switch on your wyse, in 5 seconds you're ready.
>   A PC does not support emulation/baud rates/flow controls/gadgets/
>   graphic the way a serious terminal does. Not Kermit, at least.
>   You need a serious communication program, which costs money.
>   See number 1- .

I'll grant you the speed of just flicking a switch is a point in a terminal's
favour, but as for emulation etcetera ...
My Wyse 185 supports: VT52, VT100, VT220, and VT320. Most professional
terminal packages for a PC support at least this number of emulations and
usually more (e.g., Procomm Plus). My TELIX program on my DOS PC will
support any baud rate up to at least 38Kbps (connected to my USRobotics
high speed modem), with CTS/RTS flow control.

As for the cost of the software, TELIX ran me all of $50 Canadian + docs
for about $72.

>4- Keyboard. Wyse keyboards are super. PC keyboards are toys compared
>   to a Wyse one.  You may find a very good keyboard around, but they
>   costs money. See number 1-.

<chuckle> I agree that whomever put the CONTROL and ALT keys on an AT class
keyboard had no concept of touch typing, BUT ... we have Wyse 85, Wyse 75,
Wyse 370 [which has the accursed CONTROL key moved :-(], and the odd Wyse
185...let's see, where'd they put the '<>' keys ... oh there they are, how
about the escape key ... SAY WHAT ... F11??? I've grown used to the Wyse
keyboard now, and have programmed the 185 around the brain damage (putting
the '<>'s where "god intended" above ',.', and remapped ESC to be where the
'~`' is, and put those where the '<>' key is). Result: I can use my keyboard
for touch typing just fine, but if anyone else sits down at my desk and
tries to use it, it's almost useless. (*sigh*)

>5- Noise. No noise on a terminal. Lots of noise on a pc.

Agreed. I've grown accustomed to the aircraft-carrier-like background hum
on my '486 tower at home.

>6- Breakdowns. No Wyse broke in the past 3 years. Two PC did.
>   One was a nice Compaq/33.

BZZZ. Sadly we have over 25 Wyses stacked one on top of the other in the
back room waiting to be repaired. We lose about one every two to four weeks
out of a population of 40-60. Also, the cost to repair the little critters
is pretty steep. On the otherhand, we haven't had a PC used just "as a
terminal" push daisies yet ...

>A 'little' Wyse costs around 350$-400$. A Wyse 160, which is what
>i am using right now, might cost twice as much. But that's because it does
>a bunch of things (like two connection at the same time, switch with
>ctrl+enter). 

That's a nice feature that not too may PC packages provide. Fortunately,
we have ethernet servers and I don't need to worry about that on PCs etcetera.
I guess the fact that you can plug a PC directly into the ether for about
$250 (SMC Elite16 card) + cable is another nice advantage for the PC world
too.

>In any case, i personally think that the monitor is the most important
>thing. I spend usually 10 to 12 hours in front of it every day. Last week
>i spent 2 hours in front of a VGA monitor made by Compaq: i went home
>with a terrible headache! Never more; i connected to the compaq a Wyse 185.

Different strokes for different folks. Exactly the opposite thing happens
to me ... the 185 gives me nasty headaches, whereas my VGA monitor bugs me
not at all.

It's very interesting that we've had exactly the opposite experiences from
basically the same set of operating environments. It gives me some idea
the fun that the User Interface people struggle with daily looking for that
single "right" idiom.

				Regards,
					Brian
-- 
Brian Taylor					{uunet.ca,itcyyz}!tsltor!briant
UNIX Systems Administrator			briant@teleride.on.ca
Teleride Sage Ltd.				(416) 596-1940
Xref: sparky comp.terminals:639 comp.unix.sysv386:8356 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware:13438