HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu (have clue, will travel)
Subject: Re: What to do with Newbies? 
Reply-To: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: The Ghost Of Christmas Past Society
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:25:51 GMT


jasonp@bungee.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Jason Pascucci) writes:

>Oh, and the other thing which gets under my jaw, is that people
>don't announce when they are carrying. Admittedly, I can't always
>be there to escort, but I hate it when someone takes a planet, and I 
>didn't even know we had any armies left. Even so-called clueful people don't
>do this...and I've blared at 'clued' people who get ogged with the
>team's last armies, and didn't bother to mention the fact they
>had picked them up. Grrr. 

Okay, time to set myself for the Flame of Doom, but I won't be here to answer
it until mid-January, so...  :-P

In an LPS or near-LPS, calling armies is crucial.  You *can't* waste armies 
then.

In a tightly contested clue-game, calling armies is doubly crucial.  One or
two planets at the right time can turn a whole game around.

However, in a general run-of-the-mill game on an average server, if I don't
think that an escort would particularly HELP me that much, I *won't* call for
one--and if I think that potential escorts would just plain get in the way
(streaking uncloaked to planet "X", or screwing up while I'm taking a core
planet, for example), I may not even let them know that I'm carrying. 
(If there's one or two people I know on the team, I may tell them personally,
but I probably won't broadcast it to the all-board or distress unless I need
a team effort.)

Yes, I'm an arrogant prick at times like this.  Finals bring out the best in me.
However, I put enough faith in my own abilities that I prefer to trust my OWN
skill at sneaking in and dropping over that of the average defender (if there
is one).  If someone's watchdogging a needed planet whom I respect, THEN I go
to the team.  However, if there's only two or so players on the team that I
give credit for clue, I'd rather have them doing something else productive
than giving me a piggy-back ride to whatever I'm working on.

	     --Commodore Video Sex Pope, NCSU (waking up)
	     --"GOD->ALL Video Sex Pope (R4+22) was kill 1.00 for English 486" 

--
     jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu    \\---//  have clue, will travel.
       ---------------------------------------------------
     It's time to see the world / It's time to kiss the girl
              It's time to cross the wild meridian
  Grab your bag and take a chance / Time to learn a Cajun dance
             Kid, you're gonna see the morning sun...
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 14 Dec 1992 01:02:18 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1gfad5INNaps@agate.berkeley.edu> mlee@soda.berkeley.edu (Michael Lee) writes:
)
)>>BB - 	good for ... ok, almost all ships have a place in netrek.
)>>		some people might say good for LPS's (or near LPS's).
)>>		maybe for short escorting runs.
)>
)>Yes, that's pretty much the only thing i'll use BBs for, LPSs or planet
)>defense if all i'm doing is defending (which i usually don't do fulltime).
)>Also to ogg difficult bases, IF we have a wave on it.
)
)I never use BBs, I find them too clumsy and slow.  I really should learn how 
)to play them though, since a lot of good players do.  I used to not be able to 
)play cruisers at all, because I played DDs too much, but I learned the truth 
)behind the greatness of cruisers from Tom.

I wouldn't say cruisers are 'great', but whenever I see someone attempting
to ogg in a DD and not doing very well, I will suggest that they try
a cruiser.  The main thing CA's are good at is blowing up in a selected
place.  DD's and SC's are good at blowing up in general.  BB's are good
at not blowing up.

DD's are great planet scum ships; CA's are woefully poor at planet
scumming, perhaps even worse than BB's (though you have to change
your play style to take planets in a BB).  But if you want to ogg,
bring a CA.
 -Tom
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: js138@cus.cam.ac.uk (John Sloan)
Subject: Unnecessary scumming
Keywords: T-mode scumming
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:40:13 GMT

Trying 35.8.1.220 ...
Connected to discovery.cl.msu.edu.
Escape character is '^]'.
<>=======================================================================<>
  Pl: Rank       Name              Login      Display          Ratings   DI
<>=======================================================================<>
  F0: Flt. Capt. OGG-O-RAMA        clm9q      birch.cs.Virgin   4.61   341.15
  O1: Ensign     Mageman           c60c-1gu   e260-1g.Berkele   1.93     0.60
  F2: Captain    Silver Paladin    mulhern    mordor.cchem.be   3.68   202.52
  O3: Ensign     slotscum          thalerj    marlin.cps.msu.   0.00     0.00
  O4: Flt. Capt. Yoda              js138      grus.cus.cam.ac   3.67   472.41
  F5: Lieutenant wujianming        jwu        cadesm27.eng.ut   1.07     9.46
  F6: Lieutenant rabies            auvbarn    AUVSUN1.TAMU.ED   5.09     6.53
  O7: Commander  Turin             c60c-4gr   e260-1e.Berkele   6.05    36.38
  O8: Ensign     Leodegranz        c60c-4gr   e260-1f.Berkele   0.44     0.16
  F9: Rear Adm.  Crowbar           thalerj    marlin.cps.msu.   6.11  1136.49
  Oa: Lt. Cmdr.  M.Flip            jcm1       soc2.acpub.duke   1.71    19.45
  Oc: Lieutenant Broken Hills      scementw   cadesm27.eng.ut   1.40     4.88
  Od: Ensign     slotScumm         thalerj    marlin.cps.msu.   0.00     0.00
  Fe: Commander  Broken Rubber     jmn        crown.Berkeley.   3.91    43.28
<>=======================================================================<>
  Feds: 6   Roms: 0   Kli: 0   Ori: 8
<>=======================================================================<>


You tell me what was going on.  Damned if I know why Crowbar was putting 2 ori
characters in (after having bombed Ori Space during a Rom LPS).

Yoda
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:39:57 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1gmeb0INNjsn@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> tvangod@ecst.csuchico.edu (Skud the Great) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.005835.11371@cis.ohio-state.edu> rubin@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu (Daniel Rubin) writes:

>Ok.....I don't think I've seen any mention of a BB in this discussion yet..so
>here it goes.. I think the best ship to dog fight and ogg in is a BB. 

Without a doubt, the BB is best dogfighting ship.  Around the end of last
semester, when I felt my dogfighting skills were at an all-time high,
I thought I was invincible when in a BB.



>On ogging in a BB, it can be done and done effectively. They key is knowing just
>how long your fuel will last while cloaked, you dont need much in a BB to dust a
>destroyer that isnt watching. This just takes a lot of practise.
>The one bad thing, is a BB is not made to Planet take, it is way too slow.

Not to be silly, but ogging any ship that isn't watching is incredibly easy.
The question is how good is a ship when they *are* watching.  Usually, the
intended victim does a 180 and quickly starts running.  A BB usually can't
chase them down without running out of fuel.  A SC, DD, and CA all make
good chasers.  Depending on what ship I'm going after, I switch between a
SC and CA for ogging.  Occasionally, I'll use a DD, but it's very rare.

>BBs rule!!! 

You wrote earlier that BB's aren't a good planet taking ship.  This is too
true.  I would suspect that that's why Mojo doesn't use them anymore.

Brian
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 19 Dec 92 22:08:54 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <sfAem0K00VpaBSsF8M@andrew.cmu.edu> tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley) writes:
>	It should be simple.  If DDs are a better ship, then the best DD
>dogfighter should be able to beat the best SC dogfighter even if the SC
>is a little bit better.

	STOP!!

As somebody else stated, the best dogfighting ship is the one that YOU can
dogfight best in.  I do best in a CA.  You can argue 'til you're blue in the
face that BB or DD or SC or (what the hell) AS is better, but IT DOESN'T
MATTER.

Every ship has tradeoffs.  If you can use them to your personal advantage,
do it.  But you're not going to prove anything by facing off SCs vs DDs other
than to show that some people are better at playing SCs and some people are
better at playing DDs.

>ZZnew guy

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: jimmyhua@aludra.usc.edu (Jimmy Huang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Dogfight Size wars
Date: 18 Dec 1992 02:28:44 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Well, actually, i also notice that there are differences in different
servers. 

Maybe I'm imagining things, but I always get the impression that
SC torps do more damage in fife, and sturgeon.  I mean, in CA or
BB (if the SC was naive), i could tractor them in, dett ALL their
torps and phasor to SC to death and live. 

I could NEVER pull this off in either sturgeon or fife, unless the bozo
missed a GOOD portion of his shots.  But, anywhere else it seems
do-able. 


Jimmy

p.s.
and mojo is right, if you know how to dodge in BB's, they are the ultimate. 
(in space-control and dogfighting that is).  But if you don't, stick to 
CA or DD, and if you're a mad-dodger type of person who has perfect aim
from far far away, then use SCs. 

My problem in BBs is I'm always either low or out of fuel, dunno why...

Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:29:23 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Tom's* Scheduling Counter-Proposal
	<1ggo7iINNh1v@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<wf=AnJa00YUoQJrVZv@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<Mf=PLUi00awI83sl9p@andrew.cmu.edu>
Distribution: world

	I meant no offense toward JoA and DH when I forgot them from my
rankings.  I need to go to bed sooner.  Your mind is the first thing to
go.

ZZnew guy
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Yet another reason not to like the RSA client (sort of)
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:54:36 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1g92fdINN9ak@agate.berkeley.edu> beorn@berkeley.edu writes:
>Claus Schwinge <v119matc@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
>in <Bz2rGI.3x1@acsu.buffalo.edu>:
>-  
>-  BUT, the problem is that in order to connect to non-RSA servers I need
>=	to have 
>-  the OLD client around, which is a big pain, and a waste of disk space.

>Does "-o" not work?

For those who don't know, "-o" on the command line tells the RSA client
to use the old reserved scheme.  You DO NOT need your old clients anymore.
The original reserved.c is built in.

>                     (Yes, it should be automatic . . .)

Tricky.  We wanted to allow the server admins to accept the old scheme, RSA,
or both.  The way it works now is to send a string instead of the old
reserved packet when it wants to do RSA; that way the server can differentiate
between a client who wants to use RSA and one who wants to use the old scheme.

We also wanted it to work on existing servers, which meant that we couldn't
change the client code.  We probably could've changed the server's message
to contain something different, but it might not have worked too well... keep
in mind that the reserved packets for old and new are different.

(In the original design, the RSA encryption just used the old reserved type
with a different packet struct definition, but that caused some problems when
you tried to mix-n-match server and clients.)

I've been playing with an RSA client for several weeks now; works just fine.

>	Beorn (aka Snidly)

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 03:47:08 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: New Version of the Berkeley client in Beta Version
	<1992Dec12.050518.20627@netcom.com>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 12-Dec-92 Re: New Version of the
Berk.. gene choi@netcom.com (1013)

> The OCF is a totally hosed cluster of Apollo's.

	I'm confused.  Why does bav* have a cluster at UCB?

ObVerser

ZZnew guy
From: echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 13 Dec 1992 06:38:54 -0800
Organization: <censored>
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu

In article <1gfad5INNaps@agate.berkeley.edu> mlee@soda.berkeley.edu (Michael Lee) writes:
>>Also should be used above all else to take back your own core planets.
>
>Why?  Forgive my ignorance, but the only great thing about them is that they
>can carry 3 armies/kill (besides massive hull points and other minor details.)
>So, maybe if your team was nearly kill flat, then use them. Of course use them
>to bomb the planet down, but shouldn't you really have someone else, like in a
>DD, take the planet?

The core planets will be right there next to your last planet (except in rare
cases) so any ship has a greater chance of living.  To increase that chance
you want to use a ship that has more damage capacity.  That's the AS.  If
an ogger CA gets thru and locks the taker, if the taker is a DD, he could
be DD charcoal if the escort flunks.  An AS can take 2 close range CA
phasers and live (barely).

5150
From: blojo@xcf.berkeley.edu (Jon Blow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Ship for dogfighting
Date: 14 Dec 1992 05:52:26 GMT
Organization: Experimental Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: graft.berkeley.edu

Some twink named ZZnew guy writes:

> Good for Dogfighting?  GOOD FOR DOGFIGHTING?!?!?  A SC is better for
> dogfighting than a DD.

NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE DD IS THE COOLEST SHIP IN ALL
OF NETREK I CAN HOSE BALTON IN A SB IN ONE RUN IN A DD

AND I DON'T EVEN NEED THE OTHER 5 CAPTAINS

THE DD IS THE BEST DOGFIGHTER EVER!!!! AND ITZ A RELATIVELY SMALL SHIP,
SO YOU GET MORE KILLZ FOR YUR ENEMIES, WHICH MEANS WHEN YOU UPGR^H^H^H^HMODIFY
YOUR SHIP YOU CAN PUT BUFF FAZERS ON IT AND MORE FUEL AND CLOAK REALLY COOL.

AND DD PLAZMAZ KICK ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BESIDEZ, ALL UTHER SHIPS ARE FOR TIGHTASSES -- WHY DO YOU THINK THEY KALL
              THE DD THE SHIP OF LOOSE?

   -- BITCHIN WAY K00L PEA|<0CK!
From: lyodav@iastate.edu (Sun God)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Dogfight Size wars
Date: 21 Dec 92 01:00:27 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In <1gul34INN36t@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> tvangod@ecst.csuchico.edu (Skud the Great) writes:

>In article <lyodav.724638494@vincent1.iastate.edu> lyodav@iastate.edu (Sun God) writes:
>>   I'm a career DD player, and I played in the dogfighting tourney as a DD.
>>(once as an AS on accident, and I actually mutualed with a CA ;-) )
>>What happened was interesting. I had a poor record against CAs, maybe 1 win,
>>5 losses, and 5 ties. But against BBs, I had a great record, probably 6 wins,
>>3 ties, and 2 losses. I know these are small samples, but 2 of the the 6 
>>possible ship vs different ship matchups have these outcomes in general:
>>CA vs DD:   CA wins
>>BB vs DD:   DD wins
>>
>Im a Career BB player, love to dogfight with you sometime....think you might
>have a hard time plinking me....


>Skud the Great
>Jack the Ripper.

   I did plink you to death twice in the dogfighting tournament. I was invited
to the second round, but I couldn't make it. Who knows if I would have advanced
to the finals, but I'm probably a good approximation of the "Good DD
dogfighter" that everyone is looking for. 
   As for DDs being useless in general, I disagree. I played DDs exclusively
in INL games, and I always had:

1) The most DI on my team (always above 8.00)
2) A ratio above 1.00 (about 10 carriers created, 120 kills)
3) 3rd highest planets bombed after the 2 SC bombers
4) 3rd highest armies ogged after the 2 oggers
5) Somewhere in the top 3 for planets taken/destroyed

   If this is useless, I'd like to see what useful players do. Contrary to 
popular belief, the DD is the most versatile ship.

   Ogging   Bombing   Planets
1) CA       SC        DD
2) DD       DD        AS
3) SC       AS        SC
   The CA only appears once in the above chart...duh, guys, why do you play
them? Scouts are possibly as useful as DDs, but certainly CAs aren't. The above
chart is arguable, but in any case the CA is not one of the top 3 bombing or 
planet taking ships.

--Dave/WeenieBlaster
From: aqw@cs.bham.ac.uk (Andy Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Hosers roasting on an open fire...
Keywords: Gerbil toastie
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:30:24 GMT
Organization: The Istari Council



> >There are 8 people playing here.
> >  Type Rank       Name              Login
>>F0 CA  Ensign     guest             pxf@frodo.cs.bham.a
>>F1 CA  Ensign     guest             pxf@frodo.cs.bham.a
>>F2 CA  Ensign     guest             pxf@frodo.cs.bham.a
>>F3 CA  Ensign     guest             pxf@frodo.cs.bham.a
>>O4 CA  Ensign     guest             pxf@frodo.cs.bham.a
>>O5 CA  Ensign     guest             pxf@frodo.cs.bham.a
>>O6 CA  Ensign     guest             pxf@frodo.cs.bham.a
>>O7 AS  Captain    Gerbil            pxf@frodo.cs.bham.a
> Our first European hoser?

After investigation of the logs & appropriate confession by the person
concerned (the pain , the pain ;-), this character has been reset.

Barf:-
>I take it people don't like this sort of behaviour then...if this is the case
>then why doesn't the server refuse multiple connections from identical login
>addresses?

It used to, but when people got ghostbusted they couldn't get back in
again, so the code was disabled, (no-one t-mode scummed at the time).
What the code should do is tell the new person logging in that someone
is already playing and allow them to eject the original.

Any ideas/code on this?

Andy.
From: kube@soda.berkeley.edu (Donald J. Kubasak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Hosers roasting on an open fire...
Date: 17 Dec 1992 23:02:46 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Gerbil toastie

aqw@cs.bham.ac.uk (Andy Williams) writes:

>What the code should do is tell the new person logging in that someone
>is already playing and allow them to eject the original.

As long as booting the other player is an option.  As you may have noticed,
many of we Berkeley WEB type people play from the same account (but don't 
tell anyone :^)  Actually - having the option would lead to some pretty
malicious possibilities ...

Donald (No, not THAT Donald *sigh*)
-Danger Mouse

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley)
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:26:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.061625.29508@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.040228.1572@athena.mit.edu> wildman@athena.mit.edu (Timothy Worsley) writes:
>> <bunch of shit deleted>
>>
>>(Of course, if you really think the DD *fights* better, you're beyond
>>hope.  So please, save bandwidth and don't reply.  Because everyone
>>knows all of the above, yourself included.  But you know that if you
>>try hard enough, or fight against clueless schmoes, your DD will work.
>>So go ahead, try twice as hard as me to pull even, or play on
>>doorstop.  I don't really care.)
>
>You really expect people to stop defending their viewpoint after you 
>insult them?
>
>You can sit there and spew all of the reasons you think a DD is better
>than an SC, warping the facts to suit your opinion.  The only thing 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 Ooops!  or vice versa! :)

>which will get me to change my mind is if we have a dogfight match 
>with all GOOD SC players and all GOOD DD players, and the SC's trounce 
>the DD's.  (btw, I can't claim to be either).  
>
>The DD is a very limited ship for playing netrek, but I will believe until
>proven otherwise the DD is a better pure dogfighting ship than the SC.  
>(pure dogfighting and playing netrek are not strongly related).

Sandia
-- 
Steve Von Worley
von@cory.berkeley.edu
Computer Science Gradual Student
University of California at Berzerkly
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Slight problem with the port-1 stuff
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:47:00 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1g8e0dINN3l0@agate.berkeley.edu> blojo@xcf.berkeley.edu (Jon Blow) writes:
>Current proposal:
>---
>Pl: Rnk Ship Name              Login      Display                Ratings   DI
>R2:  5   CA  midget            kwhite     beech.cis.ohio-xxxxxx    2.83   243.01

Not exactly.  The headings are:
    "Pl:"	player mapchars (the ":" is important)
    "Rank"	rank, spelled out
    "Type"	ship type abbreviation ("CA")
    "Name"	pseudonym, max 15 chars
    "Login"	user login, max 8 chars
    "Display"	player's host, max 16 (15?) chars

I don't do "Ratings", "DI", or numeric ranks (though the last one would be
easy enough to add).  These can appear in any order now; MS-II got a whole
bunch smarter on Wednesday.

>Hmm.  If you consider that nobody is ever going to have ratings higher than
>99.99 (I hope), then you're wasting two columns there.  (You can't really
[...]

Forget ratings, DI, etc., at least as far as MS-II is concerned.

>---
>Pl    Rank       Name           Address                           Rat.       DI
>R2 CA Captain    Hosehead       mucuspig@ESMERIL.WARP.CS.CMU.EDU  1.83 25243.01
>---

For the above, you need "Type" above the ship type, and for MS-II to recognize
it, you'd want "DI" to be left-justified.  The latter is irrelevant, of course.

I don't do "Address" right now, but I could add it.  You don't gain all that
much by combining them, since you have to plan for the worst case (two spaces
vs one '@' sign).

>  -Hell Peacock

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]