HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:56:10 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <33215@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
> In article <mykes.09ag@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>
> >Now for the really sad part:  How many machines (models) has apple released
> >this year?
>
> Apple came out with a new Quadra this year.  Those, and the laptops, were
> reasonably interesting.  Things like LCs and Classics are just powered down
> rehashes of old Mac IIs.
>

Would anyone else out there in AmigaLand like an Amiga laptop?  How about 2
or 3 models to choose from?  How about a powered down A3000 (as much power
as the Mac IIs at the same price)?

> >Why has Apple and NeXt come out with 040 based machine months and months ago
> >while there is no 040 Amiga.
>
> Marketing.  Apple and NeXT required it, C= marketing decided for the moment
> that the 3rd parties were doing the job.
>

Fools.

> >Why make Unix run on an Amiga instead of designing a real machine designed
> >to run Unix well?
>
> The A3000 certainly was designed to run UNIX well.  Anything necessary to
> make AmigaOS run well will also make UNIX run well, since they have the
> same basic constraints.  Since UNIX uses X for a display, the speed of the
> Amiga graphics chips is a non-issue -- if you don't like the built-in
> graphics, get an AmeriStar 1600GX board or any number of other graphics
> boards, just like you would for any other system (well, most NeXTs aren't
> expandable, so I'll change that to expandable system).
>

So let's see.  $999 for Unix plus $700 for a Lowell card and $300 for
a monitor.  This is to upgrade my A3000.  I'm buying a 486 instead.
Oh, I CAN pay just $999 for Unix and use the Custom Chips, but that
ISN'T as good a machine as you could design to run Unix.  I KNOW
you can do much better, your A3000 was impressive.

>
>
> --
> Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
>    {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      BIX: hazy
> 	"Work like a horse, drink like a fish"	- Psychefunkapus
>

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Anybody care to crush this Falcon Rumor?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 06:21:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.054856.28383@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
>: Maybe the vapor is nitrous oxide (laughing gas)?
>
>Anyone hear the news that small amounts of nitrous oxide released into
>the bloodstream is the cause of a man's erection?
>
>Guess those atari owners must really need a cold shower these days,
>eh?  :)

    Actually, I think that's "nitric oxide".  Rush Limbaugh made some comments
to the effect that the development of an antidote to this compound would be
the greatest thing for the Democratic Party since J.F.K. 

>(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
>(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
>(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
>(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------
"If you like Congress, you'll **LOVE** Bill Clinton."
                                --new campaign slogan
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: C= speaks!!! let's spread the words!!!
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:00:59 GMT
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.

Umm... geez, Apple's 8 model releases were great innovations!

The Powerbooks were cool, yes... Sony designed the 100, Apple the
140 (170 simply upgraded version).

950 Upgrade of 900... some small new things.

LC II essentially no different from LC, has '030 for VM easier under Sys
7, but with 16 bit bus, and nothing else different except could of cost
cutting removals of brackets.

Mac Classic (hoohoohaha) crippled Mac, dropped immediately... total rip of/
rape of consumers.  What a joke... did you says Sys 7 and Mac Classic in
same sentence?  hoohoohahahaha... sob.  Classic II... deriviative... no
color LC II basically...

Quadra was breakthrough, but was a while ago... where's the Cyclone?
MacUsers are chomping at the bit to get ahold of a $10,000 supermachine
from hell...

What have we seen from the PC world?  Cheaper CPUs... and Toaster clones...
what other innovations?  Well, everything is cheaper.  Except that the
base peripherials, hard disk and video, haven't dropped much in price at 
all.  Better performance, yes... but not platform specific, except for
video cards.

Geez, if CBM released a 3000 w/386bridgeboard, and called it the 3000
Universal... would that be a new release?  How about with a bigger
hard disk and flopiticals... the Optical 3000... how about a 2000 with
'040 accelerator?  The 2600/200 Rev. 7.

How about an OEM'd accelerated A500 with hard disk?  The A700XL?

The only onboard color '030 machine for under $1000... including a 105
meg hard disk, a MegaMidget type '030 w/4 megs 32bit and 2 meg chip...

Add a monitor of the type you prefer at your discretion and bag, you're
state of the low end art.

Think about it... the Amiga is capable of any of these things... some of
them even come from CBM.

Thom
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 15:09:14 -0400 
From: Michael.Witbrock@cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Well, Jerry Pournell says that there is a new amiga
Distribution: comp

Jerry Pournelle says (in this BYTE [no, I didn't buy it, I looked at it
in a bookstore]) that there is a new amiga, and that he will tell us all
about it in the next issue of BYTE [which I will buy], so.....

michael

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Well, Jerry Pournell says that there is a new amiga
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:49:18 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany) writes:

>Another idea: Jerry *dies* for CD-ROMs. Anyone living near him that could
>evangelize him for CDTV? Anyone heard any word of him about this or CD-I?
>(I didn't see anything like that.)

  Hehe, he does get worked up into a frothing fit for those things, eh? ;-)

  -jack-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Amiga Future?!?
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 08:08:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul18.030756.18349@ariel.ec.usf.edu> stelmack@eggo.tmc.edu (Gregory M. Stelmack) writes:
>The Amiga community is THRIVING here in Tampa, FL, and from e-mail discussions
>seems to be moving well in Texas. I work for an Amiga retailer, and was hired
>during a recent EXPANSION. System sales have picked up recently, despite all
>the talk of gloom and doom. Lots of third party companies have been releasing
>new Amiga products and revising old ones, including us. Commodore may be
>trying to kill the Amiga through inaction, but it definitely survives despite
>them.

(1) The Amiga is not dying. The US market does not equal the world. At some
    point people will ask themselves what they are doing rehashing the
    same things with PC;s. OS/2 is a bright light however if it takes off.

(2) C= is not trying to do in the Amiga. They are in a very difficult 
   market and have managed to come up with a most interesting product
   line, although their Amiga prices are too high. I'd say C= is actually
   quite a broad company.
 
Whatever people here may think, CDTV is an excellent idea which is going to
have an enormous imapact. The A3000 and up will eventually get DIG, 8 bit
graphics, etc...and at that time it will be a formidable computer.
 
The one thing the PC's have going for them is price and the non-proprietary
nature of the beast. Nevertheless, the Amiga and the PC are really two very
different approaches to using computers. Both have their place.
 
As far as these jouranalists go, most haven't a clue re the computer world.
Half of them think programmers grow on trees. There's a major shortage of
people who can program graphically, yet Microsoft, NeXT, IBM, etc...keep
promising the world. No wonder we have 2 year delays.

Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat,toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: Anybody care to crush this Falcon Rumor?
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 01:38:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.194504.13920@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes:
>
>In a previous article, doiron@starpt.UUCP (Glenn Doiron) says:
>>
>>>Please respond with some information about this Falcon.
>>
>>It doesn't exist.
>
>Boy will you be surprised!!! :)

Even if the Falcon did exist, who would want to buy one?  The specs
may be okay, but I wouldn't touch anything from Atari.  Any company
with worse management and product support than Commodore leaves
a lot to be desired.  Certainly it isn't much point raving about the
Falcon in this newsgroup.  The majority of Amiga owners are sick of
C= and wouldn't consider buying a machine that is likely to be supported
even less!

-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
              "Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:04:50 GMT

>Well I've purchased several PC games over the past little while. Most have 
>been worthless.
>
>PC games (and I've tried a lot recently) quite 
>frankly are poor ( with exceptions, such as many from Sierra)

	I think you underestimate PC games.  There are quite a few out there
   that are very nice.  Over the last few months I bought quite a few great
   PC games: Ultima Underworld, Star Trek the 25th Anniversary, Links 386 Pro,
   Red Baron, to name some.  The future of PC games looks even nicer, with 
   great games on the horizon, like Strike Commander.  

							G.Greene


> 
> 
>Philip McDunnough
>philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: I am not giving up on the Amiga
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 00:51:02 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.214155.24429@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>>
>>I for one am not giving up on my Amiga.  I have been pricing $4K and up
>>PC systems, and in this price range, the Amiga 3000 with 040 board is
>>the price/performance leader.  At $6K, the Amiga 2000 with GVP 040
>>and 24-bit board pushes systems at 4x the cost (i.e. SGI Elan).
>>
>
>Mike, if you think that an Amiga with an accelerator and a 24-bit TIGA
>board can even begin to approach the performance of an Indigo Elan, you
>are badly disillusioned.  On the other hand, that Elan graphics board alone
>costs something like $16K.

I doubt he's talking about a TIGA board - he mentioned GVP 040, so he probably
means GVP's EGS board, which is directly coupled to their accelerators.  The
32-bit interface to it can shovel video data straight from the cpu at 50 MB/s.
It comes with 8 megs of video ram, can do full 24-bit at 1600x1280, and can
draw lines 24-bits deep at 3 million pixels/sec.  Used with a 27 MIPS cpu
(040/33), you have a serious system.

Oh, and you can run Workbench this board, too, quite smoothly, with excellent
responsiveness.  I'd buy one, but they cost $$$$$.



-- 

David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 19:10:06 GMT

How strange... Marc Barrett, the supergenius, seems to be confusing the
hardware limitations of the Amiga with the quality of it's OS...

Thom

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders )
Subject: Re: A4000 article
Originator: kxs5829@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:34:58 GMT


	Some people have nicely and not so nicely informed me that this was
the "Slu Aspiks" article posted here.  I never did see the original article.
Apologies to those who didn't want to read it again.

	Marc, perhaps you should buy a magazine and relieve your frustrations
that way.

	- Kyle

-- 
+-"Remember, [MS]DOS is sort of a UNIX deviant already" - dmoscny@piglet.-----+
|    // Only /\          kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu                 cincinatti. |
| \ //      /--\MIGA     kyle@nick.csh.rit.edu                    oh.us       |
| \X/ SQLdb - $40 rdbms  Rochester Institute of Technology                    |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:19:36 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

al158305@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Gustavo Cordova Avila) writes:
>
>Besides being out of the discussion point, if half-OS (OS/2) need 
>a *little* more hardware to run than windows, then it needs much more
>hardware to run (just to run!) than AmigaDOS 2.04. And period.
>

So?  AmigaDOS 2.04 needs much more hardware to run (just to run!) than
AtariDOS 2.0 on my old Atari 800!

>
>Don't 
>start saying "You haven't seen it run!!" blah blah blah, you CAN'T
>install it in a machine that's less than a 386DX-33 and hope for it to
>run at an acceptable speed, but AmigaDOS can.
>

So?  You CAN'T install AmigaDOS in a machine that's less than a 68000
and hope for it to run at an acceptable speed, but with AtariDOS you can!

BTW, I guess I was wrong when I used OS/2 2.0 on a 386sx-16 and found it
perfectly acceptable...

>
>You can't install it on a
>machine with a 60Mb hard disk and hope to have enough disk space free
>for some apps, and AmigaDOS can.
>

So?  You can't install AmigaDOS on a 90KB floppy diskette and hope to have
enough space free for apps, but with AtariDOS you can!

>
>End of discussion.
>

Wise move.

>
>Gustavo Cordova Avila		| Majoring in Electronics & Computer Sciences
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd)
Subject: Skip makes the front page...
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:24:32 GMT



     Just picked up the latest issue of Amiga NEws, a newspaper distributed 
to quite a few users' groups, dealers, etc.
     The front page on this issue bears the headline, "The A4000 - The Scoop
on Commodore's Newest!", by some guy named 'Anon' :-).  The article begins with
the by now well known line, "I've been chomping at the bit to speak out and
right now I just don't care about the non-disclosure agreement."

     Of course, the part at the end of the original post which said something 
like, "this is all just a pipe dream" has been left out, as it was on
the copies that have made it to hundreds of BBSes, GEnie, AMReport, CompuServe,
etc.

     It seems to me that several people predicted just such an occurence....

-- 
Don Lloyd                / "...my brain IBM; so if you see me acting strangely,\
don@chopin.udel.edu      \ don't be surprised." - Styx, 'Mr. Roboto'           /
Gibberish is Spoken Here.          Publications Editor, AmigaNetwork 
      MicroSoft Slogan: Resistance is Futile.  You Will Be Assimilated.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: I am not giving up on the Amiga
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 06:03:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.202329.17323@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:

>>	I agree with both of you. The Amiga does achieve the performance from
>>the specs I have seen (within 10% on raw data), but of course would lack
>>the specialized software. Which in fact may be even more felxible if
>>programmed on an Amiga...that is dependant on my next question of course.
>
>I dare say that Mike Schwartz knows a thing or two about programming.  One
>might even say that he prefers to right his own applications if he has the
>necessary hardware and a good compiler.  I would not presume to speak for
>Mr. Schwartz though...

>-- Gerald

	What I meant was that I have more fun using my Amiga in general than 
using any UNIX workstation. The Amiga has more interesting features that the
UNIX machines don't. Such as multiple OSes multitasking at the same time,
and multiple screens. Plus, many UNIX programs are very old and outdated.
I hate using JOVE on the workstations. And I hate the HP mice too.


-- 
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 516-473-5156 AMIGA  DDD-MEN   
     //  bounce-resistant:    dtiberio%libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu@sunysb.edu
   \X/	    Perot for President 1-516-399-2259 Long Island, New York

 	PPPP  EEEEE RRRR   OOO  TTTTT    IIIII N   N      999   6666
	P   P E     R   R O   O   T        I   NN  N     9   9 6
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:25:27 GMT

In <1992Jul21.150336.9446@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>it will be the first time that Commodore has developed a major new computer
>systems technology (forget peripheral technologies) entirely on their own in
>more than *10* years.

One of the fascinating things in the american language is the word
technology which makes simple methods or knowledge sound like
great science.

Tell me _one_ thing you regard as new technology in the PC world.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Commodore and the Osborne Syndrome
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 15:31:34 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul29.205754.26400@uwm.edu>

Resource tracking will add a whole lot more overhead than memory
protection. I think the bill for resource tracking can be 33% and
up.

As for the penalty imposed by memory protection, yeah, but then
so does a GUI. I thought the whole point of advanced processors
was to allow you to things *better* not just faster.

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: DEC/Commodore Agreement
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 15:23:29 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul24.042316.7721@ucunix.san.uc.edu>

NT may very well be the future of desktop computing.

NT very well may be all things to all people.

NT is real, at least a beta.

However:

MS does not have a good history with OS's. Many of OS/2's previous
problems relate to MS's development (or lack thereof). Note the
difference between OS/2 1.2 and OS/2 1.3. (hint: IBM developed
1.3).

MS took 6-9 months with the beta of Windows 3.1. Windows NT is an
order of magnitude more complex.

Therefore, in all seriousness, I have to question whether MS can
pull it off in a time frame to make it competitive. That is, can
MS keep FUD'ing until NT is shipped?
 
And finally:

Its vapor until the final release.

If Beta means its real, then OS/2 2.0 has been out for over a year.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: haley@unixg.ubc.ca (Ross MacGregor)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 05:39:47 GMT

In <1992Jul27.165845.23732@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

(On the subject of HD compression)
>Not really.  With a decent CPU, the fact that less data is being read
>from the disk balances out the extra CPU time spent decompressing the data.

But with a decent HD and interface this may not be the case. Of course if
you were refering to your PC this is probably true :)

-- 
Ross MacGregor           |  These views are my own and can be considered 
haley@unixg.ubc.ca       |  absolute truth.
From: darling@cellar.org (Thomas Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anybody care to crush this Falcon Rumor?
Date: 24 Jul 92 03:09:45 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

urjlew@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Rostyk Lewyckyj) writes:

> Whatever happened to the ATARI transputer computer?

It's called the ATW (Atari Transputer Workstation).  An experimental
machine, basically; most of them went to European educational institutions.

> Oh and din't they announce, advertise some laser printer?

Are you referring to Atari's SLM605 Laser Printer?  It's been around for
years.  A great printer, although no longer competitively priced.

This sort of discussion is probably better suited to comp.sys.atari.st.

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\\\^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
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