HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:50:27 -0400
Reply-To:     hudson@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU
From:         hudson@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU
Subject:      Re: What Does Green Mean to Business?

>Will you please cite an example of a business which has been forced to
>shut down because of envirenmental laws?  I would guess that the nature
>of this business was probably inefficient and environmentally
>destructive and unsustainable.  Who needs it?
>
>I wonder if you understand the purpose of the environmental movement.
>What do you think of when you hear the word environment?  Forested
>mountains?  Fresh air? Clean lakes and oceans with lots of fish?
>Luxuries?  Not quite.  The real issue at hand is the sustainability
>of life on Earth.
>
>Obviously money is more imporatant to you than the survival of the
>human race.  Well, what good is money if there's nobody around to
>spend it?

Chris,
       It is rather easy for someone like yourself, who would hardly be
affected by a small business closure to make such statements about the
importance of sustainability. As a matter of fact I do know of small
businesses that have ceased to exist due to the inability to  afford
certain environmental changes. Recently, there was small business in
Maryland which employed a substantial percentage of a small town. The
business for the most part was run "efficiently" , unfortunately it did not
have the financial capability to make the required adjustments. So the
business closed, people were unemployed. Who needs this kind of business,
you ask? Just a couple of hundred families. But hey , their future
relatives will have a beautiful park because of it this closure, that is if
they manage to have  future generations.
        When I posed this question, I did not mean to infer that the
almighty dollar should take number one priority. I just wanted to throw out
some thoughts about who really benefits from this "greening". It is easy
for people to sit at their computers and criticize anyone who expresses
economic interests over environmental ones. Of course you would be so quick
pass judgment on this issue because Im sure you have never missed any meals
from a small business shut down.
Granted, protecting the environment is a very important subject but I feel
that it must be done with caution and some rationale.I feel that if I were
faced with the decision to pollute the environment or have my family
starve, I would choose the former. Besides can't technology, resolve the
enviromental problems of today and eventually the ones in the future?
Something to think about.

PLease respond  Janine
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:22:29 GMT
Reply-To:     Terence Sommerville <TSOMMER@IRLEARN.UCD.IE>
From:         Terence Sommerville <TSOMMER@IRLEARN.UCD.IE>
Subject:      Reference for history-origins of Western Environmentalism

Recently on the list there have been requests for references on the history
of environmentism. I think, while this may not be exactly what was been
looked for, will still be of general interest.

It is:
'Origins of Western Environmentalism' ,by Richard H. Grove, pp22-27, July 92,
Scientific American.

It is a very interesting article and well worth a read. It shows where the
Western notion of Paradise or Utopia sprang from. It was when the colonial
powers were starting out in the 17 and 18th century and how when they came
across the tropical islands, such as Maurithius in the Indian Ocean,
St Helena, South Atlantic, Cape Verde Islands, St Vincent and St Tobago
and many others. The sure natural beauty and exotic plant and animals
and cultures of these islands inspired many. Within a few years of being
found however, forests began to disappear and the efforts of a few
individuals tried to halt it, but largely in vain. Nevertheless they did
have one or two successes and setup the first nature preserves.

Even though there was people who realized and noticed how the local climate
and water supply had visibly changed in a few short years and deduced from
the shear scale of colonalism that it would have dire consequnces for the
planet.
Anyway I will leave the rest for those who want to read the article them-
selves, as I could not do justice here by summarising the whole thing in
a few short lines.

Note: It was on the island of Mauritius that the famous bird, the Dodo lived
      and became extinct during the 1670s.

-Terry.
From: TSOMMER@IRLEARN.UCD.IE (Terence Sommerville)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Subject: River pollution guard developed by NRA, U.K.
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:53:32 GMT
Reply-To: Terence Sommerville <TSOMMER@IRLEARN.UCD.IE>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

I have recently come across a new system developed by the National Rivers
Authority (NRA) in the U.K. that may be of interest to people in the field
of pollution monitoring, fisheries or anything related.

They refer to the devices as robots, but a better term might just be
'guards'. The device is about the size of a normal T.V. and they can
be placed along the banks of a river, where they can continously
monitor the water quality from every 15 mins to 2 hours (intervals)

They are capable of measuring acidity, temperature, conductivity and
murkiness of water samples. They (apparently) can also measure the level
of dissolved oxygen and ammonia, which are vital indicators of pollution
from sewage, fertilisers, and farm-runoff.

The normal way they are used, is that 3 of the devices are used together.
For example if a certain stretch of a river is suspect, one device is placed
downstream, one upstream (say a 1km away) to act as a control and another
at the suspect site. In this way the readings can quickly pinpoint the
source of the pollution.

The best and most useful part of these 'guards' is that they have a
transmitter that acts the same as a celluar phone, and so they can ring
up the control center and have their readings downloaded. Also commands
can be downloaded to the 'guards' to increase the frequency of monitoring
or to trigger other devices to start monitoring.  They also have sleep
modes and an alarm mode, whereby if preset limits are exceeded they phone
their control centers.

Already several have been tested in England and led to prosecutions of
a few factories and farmers. I belive the price of these devices is about
17,000 pounds sterling.

Personally I think devices like this are long overdue, and it is an
excellent development. It is not impossible that one day most rivers
could have such devices along much of their courses. I would estimate
that even in the space of 2 or 3 years, if it was necessary they could
be pressed into action quite widely.

I definetly think these devices (potentially) could have a huge impact
if adopted widely. Nor would it be that hard,  for new models to
include extra types of measurments.

Hopefully we will hear more about these devices soon.

-Terry.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:07:30 EDT
Reply-To:     Peter Brosius <PBROSIUS@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From:         Peter Brosius <PBROSIUS@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      Seeking info on Malaysian environmental issue

I am in the early stages of a project examining the rhetoric of the debate
over deforestation and indigenous rights in Sarawak, East Malaysia.  Specif-
ically, I am trying to track down footage, press releases, and the like from
the Rio Summit, from the Foreign Minister's conference in Kuala Lumpur that
preceeded Rio, of from the visits of delegations of government officials or
environmentalists to the US, Europe, Japan, or elsewhere.  I am particularly
interested in interviews with the various parties to this debate, and in
official govt. statements.  Can anybody suggest sources for such things.  I
already have most of the books published on this issue, and many clippings
from Malaysian newspapers, so I have that angle covered.  But I am still
in need of the things I have mentioned above.  I know that Inter Press and
other news agencies covered Rio and have covered numerous other events
related to this issue, but am not sure how to go about tracking them down,
getting access to them, etc.  Any suggestions from biosph-l netters out there
on this issue would be much appreciated.

                                        Pete Brosius
                                        Department of Anthropology
                                        University of Georgia
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:55:06 EDT
Reply-To:     Leonard LeRoy <ACTOP002@SIVM.BITNET>
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2
From:         Leonard LeRoy <ACTOP002@SIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      NASA Shutdown

From:  Leonard LeRoy
       ACTOP002@SIVM (Bitnet)
       (202)287-3455
There is a little game which is played here in Washington, D.C. at about this
time most years.  Congress fails to pass a new appropriation in time for the
Oct. 1 start of the new fiscal year.  Federal law  requires that the
government immediately begin the process of shutting down.  Government
bureaucrats do *not* respond by telling the Administrative Assistant to the
Deputy Underassistant Secretary for Housing and Urban Development at the
Department of Health, Education, and Welfare to go home.  That would have no
impact.  Instead, the Washington Monument or the Air & Space Museum, or
some other prominent tourist attraction is closed.  The next day the front
page of the Washington Post features a picture of a forlorn 8-year-old from
Iowa standing in front of the featured closing of the year.  The next day
Congress passes a continuing resolution and we're back in business.

I Wonder whether NASA might not be playing a similar game.  If congress has
cut their budget, I wouldn't expect them to quietly cut research on an
esoteric nuclear propulsion unit intended for exploration of another
solar system sometime next century.  I would expect NASA to announce cutbacks
in their most popular programs.  This would pressure congress into restoring
their funding.  I don't have any real knowledge of what is happening at NASA,
but as a Washington cynic, this is my guess.  Writing to your congress-
person and senators does work, especially in election years.  Try it.

*****************************************************
*        110 pounds of paper equal one tree.        *
*                                                   *
*****************************************************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:34:07 CST
From:         Bill Harvey <HARVEY@WUVMD.WUSTL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: getting R/O access with XEDIT

On Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:43:00 EDT, SBROOKS@PSUHMC.BITNET said:
<...>
>I have one file on APDEV:PSUHMC.SRBTAKE1 called ONCALL LIST.
>
>I have two EXECs - ONCALL and ONCALLUP.  I want ONCALL to allow
>read only access to ONCALL LIST via XEDIT.  And ONCALLUP to allow
>read write access to ONCALL LIST via XEDIT.
<...>

>Anyone know how to force the read only condition?

Well, we don't have SFS yet, so I can't comment on its abilities, but
if I were trying to do this with "normal" minidisks, I'd have ONCALL
access the minidisk as an extension of itself to force it R/O.  Ex:
    ACCESS 200 B/B
(where 200 is the vaddr of the "normal" minidisk containing ONCALL LIST).

Then when ONCALL invokes XEDIT, the user can make changes, but won't be
able to FILE them.  If the "normal" minidisk is really LINKed R/W, then
this method won't **guarantee** that updates aren't made to the file, but
it sure makes them inconvenient.

Like I said, I don't know much about SFS, so I don't know if this is a
possibility or not.

Bill

>Thanks for any help,
>Scott
>| Scott Brooks                         |   Bitnet: SBROOKS@PSUHMC.BITNET
>| Information Systems                  | Internet: SBROOKS@PSUHMC.HMC.PSU.EDU
>| The Milton S. Hershey Medical Center,
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 08:52:52 EDT
From:         Scott <SBROOKS@PSUHMC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: getting R/O access with XEDIT
              9 Oct 1992 16:34:07 CST from <HARVEY@WUVMD.WUSTL.EDU>

Thanks for the idea Bill!

On Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:34:07 CST Bill Harvey said:
>
>>Anyone know how to force the read only condition?
>
>Well, we don't have SFS yet, so I can't comment on its abilities, but
>if I were trying to do this with "normal" minidisks, I'd have ONCALL
>access the minidisk as an extension of itself to force it R/O.  Ex:
>    ACCESS 200 B/B
>(where 200 is the vaddr of the "normal" minidisk containing ONCALL LIST).
>
>Then when ONCALL invokes XEDIT, the user can make changes, but won't be
>able to FILE them.  If the "normal" minidisk is really LINKed R/W, then
>this method won't **guarantee** that updates aren't made to the file, but
>it sure makes them inconvenient.
>
>Like I said, I don't know much about SFS, so I don't know if this is a
>possibility or not.
>
>Bill
>

Scott
+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| Scott Brooks                         |   Bitnet: SBROOKS@PSUHMC.BITNET      |
| Programmer Analyst                   |--------------------------------------|
| Information Systems                  | Internet: SBROOKS@PSUHMC.HMC.PSU.EDU |
| The Milton S. Hershey Medical Center |--------------------------------------|
| P.O. Box 850                         |    Phone: (717) 531-6954             |
| Hershey, PA 17033                    |--------------------------------------|
|                                      |      Fax: (717) 531-7259             |
+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:41:26 EDT
From:         "Katherine Faella" <KMF@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Agents all used up
              6 Oct 1992 13:40:55 EDT from <DEARING@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>

On Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:40:55 EDT Jane Dearing said:
>Boy, did you ever hit us where we live!
>
>Just a couple of weeks ago, I had the exact same problem.  A class of
>students using SDF to generate CICS maps filled a room, and it would
>appear ISPF grabs an active agent and doesn't let go until the user
>exits.
>
It turns out that a class of students using QMF with ISPF was logged on
at the time of our failure.  Does anyone know if ISPF is supposed to
hold on to an agent like this?  Is this a feature or a bug????
Thanks for that piece of information!!!!

>I did increase the users value to increase the active agents, and have
>a users value that exceeds what seems reasonable.  I felt it was far better
>to overestimate in this area than to have to wait for the active agents
>to free up.  In this case, that would have been the duration of the class.
>
>We too are running CMS 7.  I think the fault lies in the manuals not clearly
>explaining how the number of users affects the number of active agents.
>When one establishes the filepool, the users value is just supposed to be
>the number of connections expected.  The value I provided was very generous
>if that was all it meant.  However, the active agents is only about 1/8 of
>that value.  In a student lab environment, where a higher number of logons
>are active than in an office environment, this 1/8 value is not high enough.
>
We have also decided that USERS is a poor term for this parameter.  We are
going to define it as peak_number_users * 8.  What we need it seems is an
agent for every id that is logged on.  Which applications hold more than
1 agent?  ...


>Jane Dearing
>VM Technical Support
>Humber College

Katherine Faella                 Bitnet:   KMF@URIACC
Academic Computer Center         Internet: KMF@URIACC.URI.EDU
University of Rhode Island
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
From: xmas@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Mark A. Stevens)
Subject: Re: Agents all used up
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:58:53 GMT

In article <SFS-L%92100617434585@SEARN.SUNET.SE> KMF@URIACC.URI.EDU (Katherine Faella) writes:
>This semester we have started enrolling all new user accounts in the
>SFS.  I have been monitoring the Maximum Agents field for our server with the
>Q FILEPOOL STATUS command.  The problem I am having is that we are having
>occassional times when a class of students are being taught CMS basics.
>They all get on together and do every command simultaneously.  Today
>this happened and all Agents for the filepool where in use.  I realize that

FWIW, running VM/SP 6 on a 4381-R14 with about 30 users logged on (after
the SVMs) I have set USERS=7000.  SFS does not consume a lot of my
machine, nor have I had lockups like those described.

IHTH
-- 
Mark A. Stevens                           Phone:    708-534-0200
Systems Programmer                        Internet: xmas@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
Educational Computing Network             BITNET:   XMAS@ECNUXA.BITNET
Board of Governors Universities           VMSHARE:  ECE/MARK
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:43:00 EDT
From:         SBROOKS@PSUHMC.BITNET
Subject:      getting R/O access with XEDIT

Hello SFSers,

I'm new to SFS and am reading, playing with, trying to learn about
SFS.  I'm stumped on one thing:

I created a file control directory.  I then gave two userids write
access (which in turn gave read and write) with the following
four commands:
  GRANT AUTHORITY     APDEV:PSUHMC.SRBTAKE1 TO TSTUSER1
  GRANT AUTHORITY * * APDEV:PSUHMC.SRBTAKE1 TO TSTUSER1
  GRANT AUTHORITY     APDEV:PSUHMC.SRBTAKE1 TO TSTUSER2
  GRANT AUTHORITY * * APDEV:PSUHMC.SRBTAKE1 TO TSTUSER2

I have one file on APDEV:PSUHMC.SRBTAKE1 called ONCALL LIST.

I have two EXECs - ONCALL and ONCALLUP.  I want ONCALL to allow
read only access to ONCALL LIST via XEDIT.  And ONCALLUP to allow
read write access to ONCALL LIST via XEDIT.

The problem I'm running into is trying to force ONCALL to only
allow read only access.  I tried (FORCERO in the access command
but that seems to only work on files in directory controlled
directories.  I also tried XEDIT with NOLOCK but this seems to
allow write access as long as no one else has a lock.
I looked at Create LOCK but it said it would only allow the UPDATE
option on files under directory controlled directories.

Anyone know how to force the read only condition?

Thanks for any help,

Scott



+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| Scott Brooks                         |   Bitnet: SBROOKS@PSUHMC.BITNET      |
| Programmer Analyst                   |--------------------------------------|
| Information Systems                  | Internet: SBROOKS@PSUHMC.HMC.PSU.EDU |
| The Milton S. Hershey Medical Center |--------------------------------------|
| P.O. Box 850                         |    Phone: (717) 531-6954             |
| Hershey, PA 17033                    |--------------------------------------|
|                                      |      Fax: (717) 531-7259             |
+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:24:54 EDT
From:         Pete Kostik <MAINT1@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      USERS parm

When migrating SAS from version 6.06 to 6.07 we had to increase our
USERS parm by quite a bit.  SAS 6.07 fixed some problems with
SAS and SFS, perhaps by using more agents.  But when our USERS parm
was increased to the right number (about 800) the server wouldn't run,
maybe because with VM/ESA/370 it was limited to 16 mb.

Our solution was to take our biggest single application out of that
filepool and give it its own dedicated filepool, something we could
not have done if we were still on VM/SP, since VM/SP can't write
concurrently to multiple filepools.  We then could reduce the USERS
parm to a value that would both handle the more numerous SAS agents
and also let the server run OK.

  -  Pete Kostik, Systems Software     Bitnet : maint1@ers
     USDA Economic Research Service    IBMmail: usersjxz@ibmmail
                                       Phone  : (202) 219-0573
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:52:59 -0400
From:         "Barry Leiba,
              Watson Host Distributed Systems" <leiba@WATSON.IBM.COM>
Subject:      getting R/O access with XEDIT
              8 Oct 1992 14:43:00 EDT <9210081847.AA13385@leiba.watson.ibm.com>

There is no way to do what you want, but there's a SHARE requirement
open for it.
                           Barry Leiba, Watson Host Distributed Systems
                                       Bitnet, IBM network: leiba@watson
                                      Internet: leiba@watson.ibm.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:22:00 EDT
From:         SBROOKS@PSUHMC.BITNET
Subject:      Getting R/O access with XEDIT

Yesterday I sent the question below and received the answer that
it couldn't be done.  I finally found a way to get around it today
if your interested:
   In my update exec I did an XEDIT with a lock.
   In my read only exec I did the following:
     Accesses with (FORCERO  as my W-disk.
     MAKEBUF
     QUEUE 'RELEASE W (DET'
     'XEDIT ONCALL LIST W (NOLOCK'
     DROPBUF
This queueing of 'release w (DET' caused me to be essentially in
a read only mode with XEDIT and gave me what I wanted.

Just in case you were interested,

Scott

> I'm new to SFS and am reading, playing with, trying to learn about
> SFS.  I'm stumped on one thing:
>
> I created a file control directory.  I then gave two userids write
> access (which in turn gave read and write) with the following
> four commands:
>   GRANT AUTHORITY     APDEV:PSUHMC.SRBTAKE1 TO TSTUSER1
>   GRANT AUTHORITY * * APDEV:PSUHMC.SRBTAKE1 TO TSTUSER1
>   GRANT AUTHORITY     APDEV:PSUHMC.SRBTAKE1 TO TSTUSER2
>   GRANT AUTHORITY * * APDEV:PSUHMC.SRBTAKE1 TO TSTUSER2
>
> I have one file on APDEV:PSUHMC.SRBTAKE1 called ONCALL LIST.
>
> I have two EXECs - ONCALL and ONCALLUP.  I want ONCALL to allow
> read only access to ONCALL LIST via XEDIT.  And ONCALLUP to allow
> read write access to ONCALL LIST via XEDIT.
>
> The problem I'm running into is trying to force ONCALL to only
> allow read only access.  I tried (FORCERO in the access command
> but that seems to only work on files in directory controlled
> directories.  I also tried XEDIT with NOLOCK but this seems to
> allow write access as long as no one else has a lock.
> I looked at Create LOCK but it said it would only allow the UPDATE
> option on files under directory controlled directories.
>
> Anyone know how to force the read only condition?
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> +--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
> | Scott Brooks                         |   Bitnet: SBROOKS@PSUHMC.BITNET
> | Programmer Analyst                   |--------------------------------------
> | Information Systems                  | Internet: SBROOKS@PSUHMC.HMC.PSU.EDU
> | The Milton S. Hershey Medical Center |--------------------------------------
> | P.O. Box 850                         |    Phone: (717) 531-6954
> | Hershey, PA 17033                    |--------------------------------------
> |                                      |      Fax: (717) 531-7259
> +--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU