From: barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson)
Subject: Re: Multiple attackers
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 02:52:17 GMT

tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:

> Barry and Mikel (et al) :
>    Here's an example of what I'm talking about.  I'm not claiming that 
>  striking arts don't have ways of dealing with multiple attackers; 
>  I only intend to say that throwing people into each other is a sounder
>  (theoretically ;-) approach.  (Other than running away, which needless
>  to say is usually the best thing to do!)
>  This example uses shihonage.  Nage is surrounded by two uke's, U & V.

>   U_ N   V      Nage blends with right hand strike, grabs arm. 

>    |N  V        Nage steps in to U's left (and away from V).  
>   U             V closes in !

>   N/ V          Nage goes under U's arm (and away from V), twisting U.
>   U             V closes in some more!

>   N-U*V         Nage performs shihonage, U is thrown into V.
>  
>  Now here is a (pathetically biased :) version of a bad way to do it:

>   U_/F   V      Foo blocks right arm strike.

>   U<-F  V       Foo counter-attacks.  V closes in !

>   U  F<-V       Foo turns around, V hits Foo.

	Foo is an idiot.  This has nothing to do with the art he/she
practices.  Why Foo didn't step around U just as Nage did (while
striking of course :^) isn't all that clear to me.  If they are of
the same ability, (and assuming they can't just run up or down the
screen) then Foo should be circling U just as Nage did (except
that Foo would do better to step to the closed side to avoid the
left punch or kick which Nage is walking into ;^) .  Foo should
keep U between himself/herself and V, until U is incapacitated or
until Foo can escape.

>  This is only meant to illustrate the different approaches.
>  In case 1, Nage is simultaneously :
>   1) controlling U
>   2) stepping away from V,  and finally
>   3) breaking U's arm with shihonage while 
>      throwing U *into* V (or at least into V's path).

	Which is what Foo should have been doing.  (Well, except for the
shihonage bit.  Foo should be kicking an punching, or at least Fooing
;^)  The "different approaches" have nothing to do with the ma's 
involved.  You have simply (and incorrectly) ascribed the WRONG 
approach to the striking art.

>  I claim that with a striking art, maybe you can simultaneously
>  block and strike, but to simultaneously 1) block 2) strike 
>  3) step away from other opponents and 4) use previous opponent 
>  as a weapon vs. the next, is impossible !!

	You are allowed to block and strike while stepping, even in
TKD :^)  Some schools even encourage their students to practice
moving sideways :^)  (Dripping sarcasm)

	Now, you are in a crowded bar, with your back to the bar,
your girlfriend on you left and a stranger on your right.  The person
(6 inches) in front is obviously about to punch a few holes in you,  
(He has just informed you of this fact, and has cocked his right fist 
behind his ear. :^)  Here comes the punch, what will you do?

	Time for atemi... (Hey, just like TKD!! ;^) 

		Barry.


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