From: ljmorly@polaris.utu.fi (Laura Johanna Manninen)
Subject: Re: Almah in Isa 7:14
Organization: University of Turku
	<1icalhINNhfh@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>
	<LJMORLY.93Jan6134759@polaris.utu.fi>
	<1ietmvINN5t7@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:57:42

In article <1ietmvINN5t7@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love) writes:
> In article <LJMORLY.93Jan6134759@polaris.utu.fi> ljmorly@polaris.utu.fi (Laura Johanna Manninen) writes:
> >Thus the era we are living in determines what is the truth, right ?

> I think this is a rather weak attempt to engage me in the relativist
> versus absolutist controversy. Sorry, I abstain.

Just answering with a question.

> I stand by my point
> which is that modern scholarship has the capacity for casting 
> additional and new light on ancient sources. In some cases this
> comes from new disciplines and technologies. In some cases it comes
> from simple "spade" work such as archaeology.

No one denies the above, but I don't see how that is your point --
it merely explains the means that the modern scholarship has. I thought
we were discussing about the meaning of 'almah'.

> >Who cares ? People who trust Rabbis' advice and are blind to see their
> >motives in these kind of issues can be lead astray. 

> This sounds like some sort of mystical mumbo jumbo or coded 
> language to me.

Let me elaborate. Is 7:14 is one of the clearest Messianic prophesies in
Tanach, saying that the Messiah will be born of a virgin and thus is more
than a normal human being, so Rabbis throughout the centuries have tried
to obscure its meaning, mainly by changing the original meaning of the
word 'almah'. Now, many scholars (or "scholars") nowadays think that since
Rabbis, or RJ scholars know Hebrew and have studied Tanach and its history
so much, they are experts and can give advice in whatever subject, not
taking into account the 2000-year-long period of trying to cover the 
evidence of the coming of the real Messiah, Yeshua. This is more often
the case with liberals rather than conservatives -- also in Finland.
Our new Bible translation translates 'almah' as virgin, but then afterwards
explains that the word really means 'young woman'... :-(

> >It dinna v'it dayanna. First of all, Harvey is a scholar

> By whose definition?

Anybody's except anti-missionaries'.

> > which refutes
> >your "consensus of all modern scholarship". 

> Hardly, we've already agreed that Harvey belongs to some period
> of medieval "scholarship."

Who have agreed ? You, RL and Dubi Krulwich.

> You shoudn't mind that since you 
> evidently think that all scholarship is the same.

What I think about scholarship is irrelevant here. What annoys me 
is that you keep selling short Harvey Smith without any reason 
whatsoever (except maybe harassment).

> > Second, the fact the 'almah'
> >means 'virgin' has been proven here on AM. You can tell that to those 
> >beloved scholars of yours.

> Nothing of the sort has been proven. It has been asserted. The
> alleged proof is worthless.

This kind of statement is worthless. You don't seem to be able to reply
to the issue itself, but instead keep repeating the same old assertions.

> -- 
> ________________________________________
> Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
> 		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)

- Laura
--
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government 
will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Councellor,
Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."  - Yeshaya 9:5 (9:6)
 
"To the Jews who had believed him, Yeshua said, "If you hold to my
teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth,
and the truth will set you free.""   - Yochanan 8:32-33