HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Streamlining Hero
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:07:35 GMT
	<1992Sep03.140505.13256@lunatix.uucp> <1992Sep4.061702.13822@kpc.com>
	<1992Sep09.191640.388@ecst.csuchico.edu>
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu's message of 9 Sep 92 19:16:40 GMT
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>>>>> "TD" == Tim Dunn <tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu> writes:

[munch, munch!]

TD> Better than writing down the total CVs for the maneuvers is to
TD> write down the (11+OCV) total, so the player need only look down,
TD> roll and the sum is all ready for him/her to subtract the die
TD> roll.  Much faster.

The 11+OCV-3D6 takes a bit of getting used to, but once you do, it
becomes second nature. It also has the benefit of you saying "I hit
DCV whatever" and the GM can keep NPC CVs secret for a while as the
PCs feel them out.

[...]

>>2nd problem is that I want to make combat "bloodier" and "faster" 

>One excellent way of doing that, if the PCs are Heroic and not just
>Average, is to reduce the stats for the rabble.

TD> Agreed.  Also remember that (usually) the PCs are exceptional
TD> [everything.]  They have exceptional stats, exceptional skills,
TD> and exceptional gear.  NPCs are outclassed, but numerous.  That
TD> should not 'even' things, just make them interesting.  Rabble are
TD> supposed to lose, but nothing says they can't get in a few good
TD> shots as they go.

Some guidelines: people with no combat training at all will be DEX
8-10, SPD 2. Combat trained/experienced people (soldiers, cops, street
thugs, etc) will be DEX 10-13, SPD 2-3, with one or two skill levels
with a particular weapon. Elite combat types, martial artists, etc.,
will be DEX 13-15, SPD 3-4, with 3-4 skill levels with a preferred
weapon or maneuver, and 2-3 with a variety of others. Combat oriented
PCs should have a CV edge of 2-4 over the average combat troops, and
maybe 1-2 over elite, depending on their experience.

PCs will tend to have better defenses (personal and armor) than the
rabble, too. In some cases, the rabble may have *no* armor at all,
depending on how well financed (or not) their employer is.

--Rat

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Richard Pieri, Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat/   | /| / /   | The Worlds
Internet: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu   /__  |/ |/ / /| | Welfare Works
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  BITNET: UA_RLP@NUHUB{.BITNET}               /__  |/ |/ / /  | | I will solve
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 ICBMnet: 42 deg 1 min N, 71 deg 0 min W    /    |/ |/ /_//_____| for you.
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.advocacy:2287 rec.games.frp:25153 rec.games.frp.misc:5530
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Incomplete Posts
Date: 12 Sep 92 01:09:48 GMT
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu's message of 11 Sep 92 10:27:00 GMT
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>>>>> "Foto" == Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!
>>>>> <v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu> writes:

Foto> I had thought that the brand of computer bigotry you are
Foto> displaying was limited to Amiga users who think their machines
Foto> are the best thing tdon't o come along since sliced baloney!

Now wait a second here! I resemble that remark! :-)

Anyway, all he's really saying is take the time to learn and use your
tools properly. You've figured out how to set up an alias instead of
the "real name" part of your address, so you're not stupid. Take the
time to figure out how your newsreader does followups as well as
originating new messages. Here's a hint: this is a followup; note the
"Re:" in the Subject: field, the In-reply-to field, and the References
line, as well as the citation.

Now, for some advocacy:

Both Battlelords and Cyber HERO showed up at my local hobby shop this
week. I bought Cyber HERO, but flipped through Battlelords. I found a
percentile system. I don't care for percentile systems, prefering a
more open ended setup (like Interlock, for example). I may eventually
pick it up, but not right now.

--Rat

||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
                                                   __        ___ 
Richard Pieri, Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat/   | /| / /   | The Worlds
Internet: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu   /__  |/ |/ / /| | Welfare Works
    UUCP: ...!northeastern.edu!meceng!ratinox  /   | /| / / / | | Association:
  BITNET: UA_RLP@NUHUB{.BITNET}               /__  |/ |/ / /  | | I will solve
  USNail: 14 Westdale RD  Holbrook, MA 02343 /   | /| / / /___| | any problem
 ICBMnet: 42 deg 1 min N, 71 deg 0 min W    /    |/ |/ /_//_____| for you.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Incomplete Posts
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:50:18 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

In article <BuEt2t.EJt@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!) writes:
<much abuse deleted>
> they handle the tools they are working with.  I had thought that the brand of
> computer bigotry you are displaying was limited to Amiga users who think their
> machines are the best thing tdon't o come along since sliced baloney!  I suppose thatyou are too

Hey v054nn84! You forgot to finish your

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
The more corrupt the government, the greater the number of laws -- Tacitus
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: ogormanj@vax1.tcd.ie
Subject: Re: Supplements for Multiple Systems
Organization: Trinity College Dublin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 12:21:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.215349.23527@afterlife.ncsc.mil>, acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:
> A poster in r.a.f.dnd made the statement that he would have
> preferred GURPS Dark Sun to AD&D Dark Sun.
> 
> This made me think of a dream of mine.
> 
> Wouldn't it be great if, some day, role-playing supplements
> were released with stats for _all_ of the appropriate systems?
> 
> For instance, TSR comes out with a module. It would be "written"
> for AD&D. But, there would be a an order form included in the package.
> For, say, five dollars, you could order a booklet listing the
> stats for GURPS or Fantasy Hero. 

The problem with that is the different flavors of games might not work for
another system.Imagine a party of rolemaster characters being dumped into
an ADnD module.Okay so the stats wuld be changed but the numbers could probably
crush the rolemaster party,all the monsters need in rolemaster is one lucky
hit after all.
A retailoring of monsters would then lead to a retailoring of other forces
in the dungeon until eventually you have an adventure which looks nothing like 
the orginal system module.

This idea would work well out of a dungeon setting though.In a city setting
were roleplaying is more important then brawn.

John
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: WARP WORLD
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:55:54 GMT
	<RATINOX.92Sep6100000@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>
	<BuAKFr.9qG@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: jacobus@symphony.cc.purdue.edu's message of 9 Sep 92 03:31:03 GMT
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>>>>> "BJM" == Bryan J. Maloney <jacobus@symphony.cc.purdue.edu>
>>>>> writes:

BJM> Actually, I have looked at, and own CORPS.  However, the question
BJM> was about WarpWorld.  There also isn't a "fantasy" per se
BJM> supplement for CORPS just yet, but I'm trying to rectify that.

CORPS is pretty much generic enough that you could do whatever you
wish with it. And it already has mechanics (albeit primitive) for
special powers. Doesn't sound too difficult to do.

--Rat

||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
                                                   __        ___ 
Richard Pieri, Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat/   | /| / /   | The Worlds
Internet: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu   /__  |/ |/ / /| | Welfare Works
    UUCP: ...!northeastern.edu!meceng!ratinox  /   | /| / / / | | Association:
  BITNET: UA_RLP@NUHUB{.BITNET}               /__  |/ |/ / /  | | I will solve
  USNail: 14 Westdale RD  Holbrook, MA 02343 /   | /| / / /___| | any problem
 ICBMnet: 42 deg 1 min N, 71 deg 0 min W    /    |/ |/ /_//_____| for you.
From: Marijan_Madunic@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (Marijan Madunic)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Killing rolemaster pc's
Distribution: world
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:00:32 PST
Organization: Commodore Computer Club / PaNorAmA

I have a problem (guilty complex) about killing pc's. After all they do
spend a couple of hours creating these pc's. Can anybody help me in getting
over this problem.

Marijan Madunic

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: thornley@micro.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: Why TW2000 eats wormy dog turds.
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:32:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.120133.932@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep13.060829.8129@fang.att.com>, bcd@fang.att.com (Brendan Dwyer) writes:
>> 
>>     TW2000 has got some major flaws to it.    Next, a
>> M1911 .45 cal pistol does 2D6 of damage per round.  
>
>	Actually, a .45 ACP does only 1d6, same as a 9mm P or .32 ACP.  A
>friend of mine pointed out that with doing maximum damage, you can't kill a
>generic character with a pistol round to the head. Um, right.
>
Yup, and in Car Wars you can't commit suicide with one pistol [1].  The
question is, how relevant is this to the game?  I thought TW2000 was supposed
to be a grim-and-gritty near-future semi-holocaust game, in which case the
combat should be bloody, but then I never played it.

DHT

[1] Characters have four damage levels:  fine, wounded, unconscious, and dead.
A light pistol does one point of damage, a heavy pistol does two.  If you use
either pistol alone, you pass through unconsciousness before death, and cannot
finish the job.  You need to heal halfway from the first attempt with the
heavy pistol, or use the light pistol first, or wear body armor (which absorbs
the first three points of damage, and thus changes the parity), or something
like that.
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Time mechanics
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:11:12 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

slp66@cc.usu.edu writes:

> The fight was 100 yards away at the outer perimeter.  The point is that there
> is no way the PC's could have been involved in the fight.  GURPS fights go
> too fast for characters to be involved unless they are right there.
> 
> ....
> 
> Ok, in Harn you can run away.  Not in Gurps.  Hey you better stay where you
> are and hope you can fight it out.  Manuevering in GURPS is suicidal.  It's
> very bad.  Don't try it.  You'll get killed.  Now, in AD&D you can manuever
> and have a chance of surviving.  you can move and engage and if you do it
> right, you've got it made.  Now, which system is move realistic?  AD&D.  In
> real life you can maneuver and shift positions.  GURPS won't let you do that
> to save the farm.

I see: you're saying that one aspect of GURPS has unrealistic timing, either
characters shooting or chopping faster than humanly possible, or sprinting at a
speed slightly faster than a garden snail.  Which one doesn't match reality?
Try measuring your running speed and speed of aiming a weapon or swinging a
weapon as if in combat, and let us know which one isn't realistically
represented.

If neither aspect is incorrectly represented, then maybe the effects are
realistic.  I've never been in a fight, and TV fiction certainly isn't a useful
source of information about combat, so I don't know what is realistic timing
for combat.

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Keywords: The best
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:18:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <batemanc.716481663@p4.cs.man.ac.uk>, batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk 
(Mad Chris) writes...
>No No NO!!!! This is why almost all Psionics systems are DREADFUL!
>Psionics is NOT magic. This is why I hate Spacemaster. If you want to see
>WHY psionics isn't magic, watch 'Akira' or read 'Dune'. 'Outlands' has 
>(a mon avis) the best psionic system because it FEELS like psionics,
>not 'sci-fi magic'. It also has a nice combat system, but it probably `
>isn't as 'realistic' as 'Battletoast' because it is intended to be used
>as a fast, dramatic system.
> 
>Living Steel, Living Steel, Living Steel. Can I have my 50 bucks?
>( I also recommend Outlands if you actually intend to role-play rather
>than play 'realistically' and die all the time ).

Mad Chris,

    You mentioned a SFRPG named Outlands.  Is this any relation to the Japanese
manga series Outlanders?  Just curious.  In either case could you please post
some information on the Outlands system?

YES!  Akira!  Great film!!

Skeksis
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Living Steel
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:07:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Kiz,

     I started out with Skall Arms Spectrum, the precursor to the Phoenix
Command so maybe I had a leg up on Living Steel.  Now, it has been a LONG time
since I could con anyone into playing around with SAS so I am a bit rusty, but
what parts of the Living Steel combat system were you having trouble with. 
Maybe (just maybe) I can help out...no guarantees though.

Skeksis
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Time mechanics
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:01:04 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Sep4.173844.1968@news.columbia.edu>, jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
> Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow) writes:
>>slp66@cc.usu.edu writes:
>>Yes, that sounds about right.  If the baddies toss a couple of grenades in the
>>room you are sleeping in, or spray the room with a high rate of fire weapon,
>>you don't get much opportunity to realize what's happening, don your
>>bulletproof vest, find your weapon in the dark, take the safety off and 
>>chamber a round, then aim and fire.  That's realistic.
> ...
>>Games with more
>>realistic speeds and more realistic combat/damage are more playable for games
>>that stress realism (as far as it goes).  The two gaming styles are quite
>>different, and the players and GM act accordingly. 
> 
> 	I disagree strongly here. GURPS combat speeds (in the games I have 
> been in, anyhow) have been strongly *unrealistic*. GURPS has characters act 
> to their *physical* limits all the time. As a result, in combat, everyone 
> tends to turn into cool-headed, cold-blooded killing machines who don't 
> stop for a second, and who throw off all pain near instantly. A character 
> who has his left arm chopped off can fight at no penalty after a second. 
> This is mildly acceptable if you are playing a bunch of special ops commandos, 
> but is preposterous for almost anyone else. 

	Well, its still better than AD&D where you can attack once per
*minute*, and there is *no* penalty if you get get.
	A good compromise might be a 3 or 5 second round.

> 	People act differently in swordfights with real blades against an 
> opponent who wants to kill you than in SCA combats. Shooting a person is 
> more difficult than target practice. Statistics will back me up here - in 
> police encounters, shots fired at close range, even arms length, still have 
> a high chance of missing. I would recommend the movie 'Unforgiven' to those 
> who find this hard to believe. 
> 

	I haven't seen 'Unforgiven', but I would seriously advise people to
avoid basing combat rules off of movies, unless they are going for cinematic
rules. The westerns are the worst offenders in some ways; it wasn't uncommon
for a gunslinger to empty his 'six-shooter' without hitting his target, even if
he was a good shot.


> 	I think that Twilight 2000 has a much more realistic time scale, 
> as well as a mechanic (Coolness under Fire) to represent how people *really* 
> react to combat situations. The damage values are low compared to people, but 
> that is an obvious concession to playability. 

	Unfortunately, the entire effectiveness of a character is based on a
single die roll. I find this intolerable.

Brandon Cope
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Killing rolemaster pc's
From: Renegade <RKR103@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 13:06:44 EDT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <7=rnd_q.akuma@netcom.com>, akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) says:
>
>In article <reynolds.715898446@judy.cs.iastate.edu>, reynolds@cs.iastate.edu
>(Owen Reynolds) writes:
>> Marijan_Madunic@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (Marijan Madunic) writes:
>>
>> >I have a problem (guilty complex) about killing pc's. After all they do
>> >spend a couple of hours creating these pc's. Can anybody help me in getting
>> >over this problem.
>>
>The solution our GMs use is fate points (spend a fate point to
>survive a lethal wound).  Considering that my character went
>thru all four of his points in about 8 games, I consider something
>like this essential for RM.  The only problem is that gives the
>players a sense of invincibility ("So what, the worst that happens
>is that I lose a fate point").
>
>-steve
If I might throw my 2 cents in here, here's what I'm doing to keep my
new-minted level 1 PC's alive.  Roll a Luck score for each PC and
keep it secret, not giving the player more than "Your character has
always been fairly lucky" or the like.  When the character suffers an
instant or otherwise unescapable(remember, 1st level characters here)
death, make a roll using the Luck bonus from the stat.  If the roll
is made, the character is out for the combat at 0 hits, but alive.  If
the roll is failed, proceed as above, but drop the luck score by 1
either in temp or potential or both, your choice.  Also I'm going to
be doing stat gain rolls for Luck as well. I have no idea how it will
run in the long term but after 3 sessions, I have 3 characters down
1 point and 1 poor fool who's lost 2 already, all on lethal crits,
so I'm getting the feeling it's justified.  Just my $.02 worth.
-Renegade
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: ins769v@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Veltyen)
Subject: Re: Why TW2000 eats wormy dog turds.
Organization: Monash University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 01:48:55 GMT

 In article <1992Sep13.060829.8129@fang.att.com> bcd@fang.att.com (Brendan Dwyer) writes:

Isn't the damage modified by range?

Been a while.

BTW a bullet in the head is not particularily lethal,
its the bleeding afterwards.

-Veltyen
From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Time mechanics
Date: 6 Sep 92 01:34:20 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Sep4.173844.1968@news.columbia.edu>, 
 jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
> Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow) writes:

> 	I disagree strongly here. GURPS combat speeds (in the games I have 
> been in, anyhow) have been strongly *unrealistic*. GURPS has characters act 
> to their *physical* limits all the time. As a result, in combat, everyone 
> tends to turn into cool-headed, cold-blooded killing machines who don't 
> stop for a second, and who throw off all pain near instantly.
>
> 	I think that Twilight 2000 has a much more realistic time scale, 
> as well as a mechanic (Coolness under Fire) to represent how people *really* 
> react to combat situations. 

I agree that T:2000 handles this point better. But, getting back to Matt's
first argument (that AD&D has a more realistic time system than GURPS), I
think everyone will agree that the problem you point out (PCs feel no pain,
aim perfectly under fire, etc) is evident in both AD&D and GURPS. So, it
doesn't really apply to measuring the ablity of GURPS and AD&D to simulate
reality or to be more playable.

Okay,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU + ``Charlie don't surf!'' --Big Duke in 
Francis Coppala's Apocolypse Now
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Real Sci-Fi Games
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:11:05 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE) writes:

> Actually the races are covered in far more detail than I've given here,
> including a summary of their history and a lot more information on their
> culture. It is impossible for me to summarize that information here without
> cutting out a lot of it. And that, of course, would make them seem
> underdeveloped. Sorry, but I can't justify every race's characteristics in a
> post of reasonable length.

You haven't even posted a shred of evidence supporting your claim that the
races are anything better than a 4 year old could come up with on the spur of
the moment.  You don't have to post a long treatise on all the races, or even
describe one of them in depth.  If there is any decent basis to your claim that
the races are good, it shouldn't be difficult to write a short message saying
why they are good.  Try starting with "The races are good because..." instead
of "Golly gee whiz, they're superfantasticcoolest!"

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.dnd,rec.games.frp.dnd,rec.games.frp.announce
From: lsmith@myria.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:35:49 GMT

Who are you people and how much are getting paid to push this game?

--
 Lance "Size Twelve" Smith  | "The web of our season is of a mingled yarn,
     (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)    | good and ill together: our wins would be proud
   "In cabaret, even the    | if our losses whipped them not; and our blow outs
     .sigs are beautiful"   | would despair if not for our own drubbings."