From: mporter@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mitchell Porter)
Subject: Life extension debate coming up in my flat?
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 06:43:32 GMT

Last night I was talking with my flatmates about a variety of different
things, including what I consider to be the value of efforts towards life
extension, physical immortality, etc. This morning when I got up and
headed for the net (every day I commute to a computer lab from which I
access my accounts), half-asleep they handed me a sheet with a list of
questions and comments they had written down after I went to sleep, for me
to think about today. Even though these comments were written down at 4
am, weren't meant for public consumption, etc, I thought I'd transcribe
them and post them to alt.cyberpunk to see what people made of them,
especially since there are a few thoughts expressed which are bound to come
up in any debate over the desirability of radical life extension.


	-------------------------------------------------------

Oh yeah I really don't know if these ideas are relevant or in that case
  what the question is?
  But just what is it that you're trying to defy?
When you say you want to live forever
  Death? the Unknown?
With every new day that arrives on YOUR front doorstep <---oops at this
it presents UNKNOWN ELEMENTS				hour I just can't
						stop the super corniness
What do you hope to attain with this super extended lifespan enlightenment?
the invention of the next 105 sex positions? <---not relevant I guess but my
or are you just content to experience?       brain functions ceased days ago!
& later the cultivation of these! (experiences)
  What can you discover in 600 years that can't be discovered in 50-70.

Also don't you think that if ultimately this was possible and birth rates
  decreased you'd be limiting change and society would become stagnant
  without input from the next generations <-- which would add to
  experience and all the inbetweens would be lost!
HUMPF i'm sure these aren't my thoughts & some one just put them in my mind

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I'm really cold. How do I start this? Give me an example, concrete. How
can I give you one back um the idea of people living for an extended
period of time or potentially forever can't be held in the air if you want
a solid example of what I think, so here's some answers/questions to
situations you haven't posed me yet:
  _all_ the population living on, reduced birth rate, less _variety_ of
  human experience or a slowing down of the creation of that variety
  _part_ of the people living on, unbalanced power relations, more of the
  same
Truly what you seek isn't wrong/right but will only be throwing in an
added factor to what I see already as a (glorious) mess. It could not
really reduce human suffering, but change it (matter cannot be destroyed,
nor suffering, nor destruction) um I don't mind the idea from a
philosophical viewpoint, nor (as stated) do I think pain can end (but it
can _change_) - The energy that you would devote to this cause (even if
only brain energy), in my _subjective_ opinion would be better put to use
changing the suffering that exists now. Even if it's impossible. To me any
added discoveries, whether medical, economic, whatever; isn't going to do
shit for humankind until we change the structure these things will be
thrown into. Responsibility has been taken from the individual - now costs
hurt more than one, benefit is concentrated (Bolivia - in'l resp'y =
self-sufficiency?).  Extended Life: the concept: more entertainment. Every
action with 2 meanings, two results turning in on each other. Any spiral
has another in its form _implicitly_. Solid implies space.
Infinite/finite. Life/death. They give shape to each other..
  [drawing of a spiral whose "negative image" also constitutes a spiral]
Everything has its opposite and its opposite is contained within it. The
yin/yang symbol remains a cliche till this is realised. Dualism without
war [?or/?of] compliance - strictly neutral (& not) - is & isn't.
Ultimately then, your reality is just as valid as mine & could just as
easily agree with you (& mean it) - but this is moer fun. Accept paradox &
it will be your friend - Sorry I'm rambling
By the way - you got off _my_ question (?)
What you're putting into the Net - your child - ideas still live & die -
why do it? Is it just humans you care about? If so then what humans? All?
Rapists murderers? What _do_ you want to preserve?
Also would life be as intense an experience?
Why would quality change for the _overall_ better just because of
increased quantity? um um
The details don't matter anyway - given my 'worldview' I know how they'll
sort themselves out.

The possibilities are limitless whether you choose life or death (or it
chooses you). My future & my death (neither being experienced now) are
just as im/possible as ever & if my death is held for me in my future I
can't help but say, then my future is in my death. Nothing I feel any
need to hurry into, mind.