HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thrift@ra.csc.ti.com (Phil Thrift)
Subject: Re: "Behind the Hate in Oregon"
Organization: TI Central Research Laboratories, Dallas
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:11:47 GMT

rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>   Has anyone attacked this on $$$ arguments?  Under 9, gays will pay
> taxes and not have any use for the benefits their taxes pay for.  I
> suppose one could put in a rider given gays an exemption from taxes
> since their tax $$$ isn't in any way coming back to them.

One should be able to attack the proposed statute on constitutional
grounds based on the principle of "equal protection of the laws".
There are so many violations of this already: women in Virginia pay
taxes but cannot attend military schools supported by state money;
gays pay taxes but do not have the right to join the military (and
receive its benefits), or the right in some states to pursue a career
as a public school teacher, etc. etc. Not that "equal protection" only
covers tax payers. This only makes its lack of application more
glaring.

Conservatives [sic] will use whatever tactic available to negate the rights
guaranteed by a literal reading of the constitution.

-prt

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Barbara Bush is a piece of shit.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:34:48 GMT

exukev@exu.ericsson.se (Kevin Autrey) writes:

>In article <dmnyg+h@rpi.edu> buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:

>>Didn't anyone notice she wore that red "AIDS" ribbon during her speech but
>>when George and the kids came on to the stage it was gone?
>>-- 
>>RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C., April 25 1993''

>Newsweek did - in it's Conventional Wisdom Watch section at the
>beginning of the current week's issue.  On the Mary Fisher (HIV+
>Republican speaker at the convention) plug, Newsweek said something
>like "But Barbara, what happened to the AIDS ribbon?".  I was glad to
>see *some* media coverage of the hipocrisy of her ribbon-wearing
>actions.
Cool! That's why I subscribe to NEWSWEEK! :-) Unfortunately I have heard that
NEWSWEEK is slipping behind US News & World Report in circulation. Does anyone
know about the relative health of the three mainstream news weeklies [Time,
Newsweek and US News & World Report]. USN & WR really annoys me. I never read it
except for when I'm flying [ok,that's pretty often.. :-)] but on Friday I saw 
that they had some nasty piece on how ``Heather Has Two Mommies'' is going too
far and the radical homosexual activists are tryoing to co-opt the public 
education system, etcetera et cetera...

>Newsweek really pounded the Republicans and George Bush on the level
>of hate espoused at the recent Republican Convention - making several
>(what I read to be hostile) references to their new political Family
>Values taglines and other anti-gay statements.

>__ ____________________________________________________________________
>\/ Kevin Autrey / Wk: exukev.ericsson.se / Hm: kevin@batpc.lonestar.org
-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. `D.C. in 93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"I might be President by now if it weren't for this 'queer' thing" -Gore Vidal
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Forty years a queen
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:00:47 GMT

In article <regnant@vadier.gr.osf.org>, emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
> I wrote:
> >>   T-shirts with the inscription
> >>  "Queen for 40 years"
> >> [...]
> >>  [The T-shirt inscription is rendered as "Une reine de 40 ans"
> >>  without saying what it was in English, so I am guessing.]
> 
> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) asks:
> >Could "une reine de 40 ans" also mean "a 40-year-old queen"?
> >I'm thinking by analogy to "une reine d'un certain age" = "a
> >middle-aged queen".
> 
> Certainly.  In fact, I asked a French colleague who thought that using
> it to mean "a queen for 40 years" was pretty iffy at best.  I assume
> therefore that the Gai Pied journalists had difficulty coming up with
> a French equivalent to "40 years a queen" (which Roger Phillips
> informs us was the original English wording) that it would make sense
> for a 40-year-old Queen (in our sense) to wear.

This, to me, is all very odd. "40 years a queen" and "A queen for 40
years" mean more or less the same thing, and, I should think, would be
adequately expressed in French by "une reine depuis 40 ans".
(Actually, "Queen for 40 years" doesn't necessarily mean the same
thing as "a queen...", but might imply *the* Queen -- Elizabeth II has
been Queen for 40 years, yes?) It looks like the Gai Pied folks
misunderstood the English idiom, and thought it *did* mean
"40-year-old queen".

> 
> [I have *got* to do something about those sentences!]

Like what?


>          ,
> La Reine Eamonn Premiere, Souveraine des Pederantes, Monarque des
> 	Traductions Douteuses

Hmm... sometimes the extra ambiguities arising in a language that does
*not* have grammatcial gender can be useful. And I'm still working on
"pederantes".

> 
> [Oh, I can't resist pointing out something Jess probably already knew:
> "Tu veux me prendre a la Sainte Chapelle?" can mean "Do you want to
> fuck me at the Sainte Chapelle?"]

[Aren't you clever? You got another correction in after all.]

I love the Sainte Chapelle. It's the most *purple* place I've ever
been. I don't know about getting fucked there, though -- the floors
are very hard.
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Insults
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:49:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: macc.1992Aug26.004907.24970
Distribution: na
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug26.003017.11315@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
wendyt@cs.washington.edu (Wendy Thrash) writes:

>The Maroon of Chicago are a proud bunch, and we blush
>(something between a dark reddish brown and a deep purplish red) to see our
>beloved Color used in such a manner.  This practice must *cease immediately*,
>you, you cardinal!

Now Wendy, with such a great number of colors to choose
from, I fervently hope you choose another than cardinal with
which to malign Friar Dyer, as 24,000 gay graduates of the
University of Wisconsin, all Badgers whose color is cardinal
[how's *that* for world-class logic?], would not be pleased.

Perhaps our friendly bear was referring to Harvard's
newspaper, which is not something to be marooned with for
long, especially not if it's very, very cold in Hahvad
Yahd, for then it would be maron glac'e, though this
interpretation would pull Dyer's chesnuts from the fire.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rcrice@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (roger.w.crice)
Subject: Re: The liberal media
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 12:32:16 GMT

In article <BtuzGt.H4I@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
>Other coverage of the Measure 9 struggle:  Terry Gross' "Fresh Air"
>featured 3 guests talking about the issue.  Fortunately, I only turned
>the radio on in time to hear the last, anti-9 speaker.  I didn't have
>to hear the others.  Anyone hear the entire program?

I did, but that was a couple of days ago so the details are now fuzzy.

Her first guest was from the "research" and PAC arm of one of those 
fundie, church-y organizations (Focus on the Family?).  Terry, who 
is very gay+, consistently punched holes in the speaker's logic, and  
pointed out his own contradictions (Paraphrasing:  "You say you think
the government should stay out of families lives, but yet you want the
government to encourage families to stay together...").  He had the 
usual putrid phobic things to say and got annoyed at the host for 
using the expression "type of family" when she referred to the group 
composed of a married man and woman and their children ("It's the only
kind of family there is, period.").  The interview really churned my
stomach.  I honestly don't know how Terry Gross maintained her
composure.    

Her second guest was some sort of pro-9 spokesperson.  I remember 
thinking to myself during this interview that, though he was spewing 
the usual vitriol and misinformation, this guy was articulate and 
spoke in a persuasive manner, punching all the right fear buttons in 
those who don't know any better with unanswered questions ("It's not 
'How many pederasts are gay?' but 'What percentage of the gays are 
pederasts?'  You've got to look at that.  [quotes from gay periodical
regarding man-boy love]").  One of Terry's earliest questions to this
guy was, "How has homosexuality affected you personally?"  After a 
pause, he replied to the effect of "It hasn't affected me directly,
but it's a lot like drug use, Terry. [blathers on about society and 
moral fiber]."

Terry Gross (who I picture as a short, thirty-something, Jewish 
lesbian and former drug user) and her show Fresh Air are the reasons
I support one of our two public radio stations here in Cincinnati,
and bolt from my desk at 4:00.  She is the most gay-supportive
interviewer I know of.  The shows are often about gay and lesbian
issues, and frequently her guests are family.  Because I think she
is a skilled interviewer, or perhaps it is because she peppers her
questions with allusions to things of motss significance, her shows
on other subjects are interesting, too. 

Roger.
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 28 Aug 1992 14:49:15 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <BtpD8C.3AL@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
> adolphson (adolphso@mizar.usc.edu) wrote:

[I've deleted my somewhat patient explication]

> What's this?  Resorting to "education and explanation"?
> Maybe the heat wave's subsided in L.A.

Nope.  The air conditioning was on.  But have no fear -- it's hot 
as hell here again.  

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Ball Snaps and Calla Lillies, and a game.
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 04:30:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep2.014505.26734@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess 
Anderson) writes:
>
>Permit me.  A bias-cut gown is what Alan Williams wouldn't
>be caught dead in.  Nelly, dontcha know!

He's obviously never seen Walter Mayes, or an acquaintance of mine who was
a 49er (the foorball team) in their unmentionables.

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hwt@bcarh11a.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Subject: Re: move to canada, eh?
Reply-To: Henry.Troup@BNR.CA
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: soc
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:04:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.190320.8902@tandon.com>, tdbear@tandon.com (Tom
Barrett) writes
|>know of many board/system design houses iup your way.  Does
|>Canada have a "Silicon Valley" of sorts?

Sure does - Silicon Valley North is in the Ottawa Valley.  Biggies:
Northern Telecom, Mitel, Nordion (formerly AECL), Control Data, Marconi, etc.
               
  Henry Troup - HWT@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
    "If your morals make you dreary, depend on it, they are wrong" - R.L.S.
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:37:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: camelot.vanyel.715023427
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bradley University

In <l9qtglINN3je@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>Heavens.  Do you even know what genderfuck is?  

Apparently not, oh great motss guru.  Enlighten me, o lord.

>I'm amused that you would think that by using feminine pronouns
>about men, one is treating them as if they were women.

Ho.  Time.  When did I say that?

>(And why do
>I get the feeling that you think being treated like a woman is
>a Bad Thing?)

I think being treated like something I'm not is a Bad Thing (tm).  I'm not
a queeny type, nor am I a woman.  (Note the difference; obviously you can't
make it yourself.)  I prefer male pronouns when people refer to males.
Sorry to mess up your worldview.


> Some male friends of mine refer to me and each other
>almost exclusively with feminine pronouns.  They most certainly
>do not have trouble with their gender identities, if by that you
>mean to suggest they might think they're women trapped in men's
>bodies.  Nor do they have problems with their sexual orientation.
>They call me Arne Ann and Girleen and girlfriend out of affection
>more than anything else.  That, in any case, is what's behind my 
>calling them Miss Farmer, Miss Papain, etc.

All that is your prerogative.  How many people out there *are* having
problems with gender identity because of sexuality?  Or are you even aware
that other groups besides the ones allowed by your paranoid u-vs-them
mentality?

Did you ever think that maybe some people exist who *are having gender
identity problems related to their being gay?  Heck, I've heard of
*heterosexuals* having gender identity problems.  Wake up to reality,
asshole.

>> >Could it be you are all just a bunch of hypocrites who preach tolerance
>> >but actively silence or ridicule anyone who disagrees with you?
>> Could it be that Bob Sarver has no sense of humor?  NNNNNNOOOOOOO!!!!
>> 8-)
>Could it be that Alan Williams doesn't have a clue?

Could it be that Arne doesn't have a life?

--
 ________________ Alan Williams  vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu ___________________
 \/ A hypothetical paradox: What would happen in a battle between an         \/
    _Enterprise_ security team, who always get killed soon after appearing,
    and a squad of Imperial Stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of
    a planet?                 	--Tom Galloway
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ejp@sporty.col.oh.us (Ed Pfeiffer)
Subject: Commonalities: Years Since Birth vs. Years Since Joining Community
Reply-To: ejp62@cas.org
Organization: J. A. Anderson & Company, Columbus, OH US
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:32:41 GMT

Keywords: 

The recent thread on terminology, queer vs. gay, rekindled a question of
mine.  Part of that thread had to do with generational differences.

I believe that another factor, the year that someone "joined the GLBO*
Community"  has as large an affect on an individuals perceptions, as
their biological age.

I am 43.  I started college Before Stonewall, and finished 2 AS (After
Stonewall), but I did not know that at the time.  Although my wife-to-be
and I both knew that I was gay, we married anyway, and the marriage
lasted 13 years.  One of the many factors in the divorce, way my
discovery of the GLBO* Community.  Around 1986, I became part of the
community, with no more knowledge about its history, than teenagers just
discovering their sexuality.  Since I am addicted to information, I have
done a lot of reading about the post WWII GLBO community, but I know this
info from reading, not from experience.
 
I am just about the oldest member of the board of Stonewall Union here in
Columbus, but in political and philosophical viewpoints and arguments, I
seem to have a lot more in common with the younger members of the
community, then with those of my contemporaries who have been members of
and activists in the community for many more years than I have.  This
does not mean that I fit in perfectly with my friends from QN and
Outrage, the fact that I do have a perspective from having lived longer,
and having had childhood experiences typical of my contemporaries, also
affects my outlooks.  But it still seems to me that the timing of my
coming out to the GLBO* community, a (dare I say it? Flame Proof Garb ON)
born again type experience, has determined more where I fit in than my
chronologic age does.

I would like to know what others think about this.
 
               Ed Pfeiffer

Preferred E-mail: ejp62@cas.org
Alternate E-mail: ejp@sporty.col.oh.us


imagine creative .sig here
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:36:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.110457.22001@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> I love that *even* in there, Frank.  And what is it I have
> dropped?  Sarver == Sargon == Boob == contempt.  Contempt is
> no less appropriate than it was, which I took to be very.

Frank is sensitive to it, having been called "Frank
Swill" at at least one point in soc.motss history.
Tempting, huh?

Anyway, I actually have thought very long and very hard
about referring to Sarver as a breast.  I haven't come
to any conclusions, though.  Contempt doesn't begin to
describe my opinion of him;  I've never met the man, but
his net.mien is uglier than homemade dogshit.  I hope that
he finds being referred to as a breast infuriating, and
I hope that he has the wherewithall to ponder *why* he
might find being referred to as a breast infuriating.
On the other hand, I think breasts are terrific.  I really
am exceedingly fond of them, and it troubles me no end
that I might be accepting Boob's misogyny by using it 
against him.  Still, I'm having too much fun to stop.
(Hey, anybody who says that being PC is easy couldn't
possibly have tried it.)

I,too, was intrigued by Frank's use of "even" in reference
to Jess.  Does Jess have a history of cheap shots?  I don't
think so.
-- 
"I would promptly inform any homosexual who would dare to proposition
me that my preference is fisting."  -- Theodore A. Kaldis

       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: julie@hood.nrl.navy.mil (Julie Hood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sim? status?
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:47:45 GMT

In article <ZBBZPB2w164w@penn.Gwinnett.COM> bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn  
Collins) writes:
> has anyone heard from or had contact from Sim Anderson?
> He lives in Miami (right in the path of Hurrican Andrew) and I was concerned  
if
> there had been any contact (I know phone lines are down and the phone lines
> are restricted)
> hope all is well- Hang in there Sim!

I've been trying to call Sim for daze now and get no answer.
I *have* been able to get through to some other South Floridians...
The phones *do* work but there is no electricity; the National Guard
is all over the place with machine guns protecting banks and jewelry
stores that lost windows; the University of Miami marine lab
(where I'm supposed to start work October 1 - yah, right!) is trashed,
no doubt. It is/was out on a key next to Key Biscayne, across the street
from Sim's NOAA lab. We're gonna make the queerest lunch buddies!!!
I hope Sim and Daivd and the bunny are ok...

--
Julie, A Hood  
**So many equations, so little time...
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Snaps (no, not *that* kind, Elizabeth)(was Re: new queer terminolog
Date: 27 Aug 1992 01:02:09 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug26.212359.17421@panix.com> 
tovah@panix.com (Tovah Hollander) writes:
> I'm being especially clueless here, I'm sure, but I've just got to ask:
>
> *What* kind of snaps should Elizabeth not mistake this kind for?

The kind that lazy lexicographers might claim
are a kind of paillette.

Arne


Xref: sparky soc.motss:37426 news.answers:2650
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Is Pat Robertson for real??
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:59:29 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug31.221700.28224@microsoft.com>
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>RE:  Pat Robertson

Not one word of which I disagreed with.  Apart from some
very minor editorialzing, natural enough given the subject,
I didn't detect much of Bob's own thinking about Robertson
and the larger phenomenon of which he's a part.

What would you say, Bob, is the greatest threat to LGB
people from the "America is a Christian country and we're
gonna take it back" crowd?

I ask because it's in part a diversity issue, and diversity
(just who, how much, where, and so what) has been at the
center of the earlier discussion.

<> How much time he gains who does not look to see what his
<> neighbor says, or does or thinks, but only at what he does
<> himself, to make it just and holy. -- Marcus Aurelius
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Barbara Bush is a piece of shit.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:50:22 GMT

shore@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Melinda Shore) writes:

>[]
>Hear, hear.  An interesting piece on NPR last night
>described in detail how she's "aw, shucks"-ing her
>way right back into the White House.  She's actually
>very political and very tough, and she's not on our
>side.
Yeah, I'm glad this stuff has finally started to get out. NEWSWEEK was the 
first place I saw information on how Barbara is really as political as Nancy
Reagan but how she has managed to remain aloof. 

Didn't anynoe notice sjhe wore that red `AIDS'' ribbon during her speech but
when George and the kids came on to the stage it was gone?
-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C., April 25 1993''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
Anne-Imelda Radice, President Bush's appointee to head the National Endowment
for the Arts, has been described as ``the Lesbian Clarence Thomas''.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: A question
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 17:40:50 GMT

In article <20AUG199219575399@gergo.tamu.edu> dave@gergo.tamu.edu (Dave Martin) writes:

>What, afraid of a little competition from the lesbians?

Wow.  Stealth queer men, I guess.  Well, *I'M* impressed.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Melbourne
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 03:35:53 GMT

bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>(rogerk)
>/What hypocrisy?  I see a simple disagreement.  Arne disapproves of their
>/choice, thinks them cowards, but states their right to choose it.  He
>/also thinks you're wrong about "flamboyant activity"... he doesn't argue
>/with your right to an opinion; he simply thinks it's full of shit.

>It looked like judgement to me.  

That's what he said--judgment of your *position*, though, not of you.  After
all, you're a human being too, just like the rest of us. 

Or so we assume.

--Brent
Newsgroups: soc.motss