From: foy@aero.org (Richard Foy)
Subject: Re: Recycling Costs and Libertarian Candidates
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 02:18:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.225331.15756@morrow.stanford.edu> GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis) writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.195321.14704@aero.org>,
>foy@aero.org (Richard Foy) writes:

>>have a choice but to discard it. The producers should be the one
>>who pays the cost of the ultimate disposal.
>
>You're trying to pass the buck.  If you don't like how someone is

Actually we are both passing the buck. The producer passes the buck
to the consumer for disposal of the wastes that the producer includes
with her products. Ath consumer passes the buck of disposal costs 
to the city taxpayers (in Redondo Beach at least) who pay for the 
cost of the waste disposal.

>packaging their product -- don't buy it.  Then write to the company

It just so happens that letter writing is one of my main pastimes, 
to CEOs, Politicians, papers etc. I haven't yet written any to the
papers to give more space to Libertarians, even though I understand 
well the problem of minor candidates getting publicity having run 
for the State Assembly in 1976.

>>Do you think there is a resoanble chance of this happening?
>
>Sure, sometimes in the process they even discover they can save
>money.  MacDonald's was less than enthused about getting rid of
>their styrofoam containers but when there was enough hugh and cry
>about the practice they took a look at things again and realized
>that not only would they get better PR by switching but they would
>save money while they were at it.  Sometimes you just need to create
>enough motion to overcome inertia.
>

You are aware, I assume, that Joan Kroc the widow of the founder of 
MacDonalds and the current major stockholder, is a peace and environment
activist. This might have had something to do with their easy conversion.


>that it's important to you.  Don't sit back and wait for someone
>else to amke the first move.

I don't sit back. As I said before I write lots of letters, perhaps an
average fo 3-4 a week. I am active with several organizations. If I were
younger I would probably be sailing on one of teh Greepeace ships.
However, there remains the problem of the Commons.


>>Yes, all of what you say does not require any government action. However,
>>it hasn't happened in the past. It most likely won't happen in the future.
>>
>>The main reason IMO is that the concerned people are not so concerned that
>>they will spend their money when they see unconcerned people undoing all their
>>good works. The greedy people will have too short term goals to set up the
>>system required to make your approach work.
>
>I'm not sure I quite follow this but I reiterate that it *will*
>require action  and not just words on the part of those who claim
>to care.
>

Another way to say this is that the people who can cost efficiently reduce
waste are not inclined to do so because they pass the waste disposal costs
off to the consumer. Consumers amy be concenred about the environment but
if being concerned forces an unreasonable cost on them because they are
in effect paying both for waste disposal and for higher recycled product
cost when the producer passes those costs on to the consumer.

>
>If you believe that, what are you doing to see that the necessary
>research to support that position gets done?
>

Voting for Al Gore amongst other things. Another thing I am doing is voting
for women for the US Senate. Many women are more concerned about the 
environment than are the men, in particular one running for the long seat.

>
>>It is a chicken and egg situation.
>
>You know, I've never understood this euphemism.  To me it always
>seemed obvious that the egg came first.  Whatever laid the first
>chicken egg was obviously not, strictly speaking, a chicken itself.
>The small steps that each of us takes to reduce waste will not seem
>much like a chicken, but together I bet we could make a lot of eggs
>:-)
>
>/June

Richard Foy                       Standard Disclaimer
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections