HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu
Subject: Re: Question: Chris Barnes
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:23:57 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Nov6.084132.12084@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
halvorsen_ralph@mac-mailserver.atc.ll.mit.edu ("Halvorsen Ralph") writes:
 
>
>Just cleaning up old mail and came across the dialogue re: Chris
>Barnes vs the anti-hunting feminist. How did the rebuttal come out
>Chris?
>
 
She never responded to my mail message.  I can only assume that
she didn't want to hold a conversation where reason was used over
emotional passion....
 
      ---------------------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |
cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |  "Those that already have the answer
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |   can afford to be clueless!"
(409) 845-4437 (work)   |


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: gt5060b@prism.gatech.edu (GARY MICHAEL BUTLER)
Subject: .300 Win Mag loads & Recoil
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:54:17 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


I am new to the newsgroup, but I have been a hunter in Georgia for
over 15 years ( quail, dove, rabbit, squirrel, fox & deer ).

I am going to be taking a trip to a private ranch in Montana next
year to hunt Mule deer, and Antelope, but from reading the messages on
this newsgroup I have become interested in Elk hunting. This brings me
to a two-part question. I currently hunt with a .35 Remington (200gr load)
for whitetail deer in the thick pine forests of southern georgia. I
know that this is an inadequate load to use out west ( to say the least ).
I have at my disposal a .300 Win Mag to use of my fathers. What is the best 
load with this caliber for Mule deer, Antelope & Elk. ( I cannot afford
to buy a new gun for this trip so I will have to use what is at hand ).

My next question is about recoil. I have always been curious about the
different leveks of recoil of calibers that I have never fired. If one uses
a .30-06 or .270 as a base-line of 100, what is the level of felt recoil
of a .7mm, .300 Win Mag, .338 Win Mag & the .375 H&H ? What about the 
corresponding Weatherby loads (.300, .340 & .378 ) ?

Thanks for your time and consideration. I am sure that someone out there
has experience with all of these loads.

Good Hunting.


-- 
BUTLER,GARY MICHAEL
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:     ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt5060b
Internet: gt5060b@prism.gatech.edu
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: AZ prop 200?
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:52:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Nov6.085248.12749
Organization: UNM Cancer Center
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


  So, what was the fate of prop. 200 in Arizona?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: rbutler@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Randy Butler)
Subject: Re: What will pheasant hunting be like in KS
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Date: 13 Nov 92 07:51:21 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Nov12.090644.5015@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, mgriffin@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Mark Griffin) writes:
|> This weekend, Nov. 14,15 is opening weekend for Pheasant hunting in KS.
|> Naturally, we already have our fields picked out to hunt, but I've heard
|> >from several sources that bird numbers are down this year compared to the
|> last two years.  Has anyone else heard anything about this.  I believe
|> Nebraska pheasant season opened last weekend, how did the hunters do there?
|> 


The Illinois season started last week and it was a real bummer.  This
year has been very wet and the farmers are having a tough time just
getting their crops out of the fields, let alone worry about turning
over the soil.  As a result I suspect that most of the pheasants are
out in the harvested corn stubble or even in fields that are still
standing.  Since there are thousands and thousands of acres of this
type of cover, it is hard to find them.  That plus thefact that they
seemed to be setting really tight.  My dog (Roger) had a real tuff
time flushing the few we did see.

I will continue to go out but I suspect the pheasants will stay
scattered until the fields are turned over(perhaps not until spring
now).  A real pain since I planted a five acre plot this year with a
thick grass cover and bordered it with Milo that I left standing to
feed the buggers.

Oh well I guess I will just spend more time duck hunting this year. :-)

-- 

Randy Butler :-{)
NCSA


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett)
Subject: Re: Pix of hunters using Politically Incorrect weapons needed
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:54:44 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu
Keywords: semi-automatic, assault rifle, military-styled

In article <1992Nov6.081753.3293@doug.cae.wisc.edu> powlesla@acs.ucalgary.ca (Jim B. Powlesland) writes:
>>gray@hawkmoon.mn.org writes:
>
>>I edit a newsletter for the Gun Owners' Civil Rights Alliance in
>>the People's Republic of Minnesota.
>
>>We need snapshots of hunters who hunt with military style semi-
>>automatics, showing them with their rifle and the game they took.
>
>>This year I am hunting with a party that includes an M1A and an
>>SKS.  I know another hunter who will be using his HK91.  We want
>>to publish as many accounts and pix as we can of people who hunt
>>with rifles the Politically Correct claim are never used by
>>hunters.
>
>>Thanks for any help.
>
>You'll get no help from me. I hunt and I am absolutely APPALLED
>that you and a bunch of other assholes are out there shooting
>animals with military assault weapons. And an editor of a pro-gun
>lobby newspaper to boot! The one thing hunters do NOT need is a
>photo spread in your rag proving the fact. Hunters have a hard
>enough time as it is with the public. You will only make it
>worse for all of us. 
>
>

I'd be interested to know what exactly it is that bothers you about hunting
with a military rifle. 

-Steve


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer)
Subject: Re: Advice needed on used 4x4 pickups
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: 11 Nov 92 07:55:38 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Nov10.072534.11445@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
|> Ford?
|> Well Toyota has been the best seller for 15 years in a row. They and
|> Mazda are top rated in the Powers ratings. The toyota is considered the
|> model by which others are judged. Not Ford.
|> However, even though I'm the worlds biggest Toyota fan, I have read an 
|> article that has convinced me to buy American next time (even if its not
|> as good).

Keep in mind all that glitters... I thought I was buying American when
I bought my F350. Turns out I was buying Canadian!

				mike


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: JLW154@PSUVM.PSU.EDU ()
Subject: P.A. Bow story
Organization: Penn State University
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:57:35 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

This is a story that I was told last night by a man and his wife.  It
appears that he was hunting on wed. morning, well after a few hours of
sitting a little four point comes walking up.  The guy, who has killed
quite a few deer with a bow in his time, figures the deer to be about
29 yards away, he shoots the deer drops instantly.  He fiqures that he
has gotten his buck for the year, suddenly the buck starts to get up,
slowly back legs wobbly.  The buck stumbles about 10 more yards into a
thicket and falls again. now it's down for good, he thinks.  The guy
waits about 45 min. and starts to climb out of his tree, as he
approaches the deer it gets up slowly again and starts to walk away,
it is now about 45 yards away when it falls again, he decides to shoot
it again but misses.  So now the buck quits moving so he walks up to
it, about 25 yards away when it jumps up and starts through the woods.
The guy starts running after it, running, af ter about 75 yards the
guy trips and wipes out falling on his bow bending two a rrows.  At
the same time the deer falls, about 30 yards away the guy nocks an
arrow and pulls up but can't see through his peep, letting the bow
down he sees that there is dirt in his peep as he begins to clean it
out the deer get up and takes off again, the guy takes off running
after it, he stays about 10 yards behind the deer for 200 yards, never
getting close enough to dive on it.  finally he callaposes from
exhaustion and the deer stumbles away falling down every 100 yards or
so.  The guy, whom I know very well and have hunted with quite a few
times said that he couldn`t get his breath and just sat there for a
goood 15 min.  He came home and got me to go help him look for the
deer but we couldn't find any blood, but we found his arrow.  The guy
was very upset,as he always is when he sees a wounded animal get away,
not to say he wounds a lot of animals but everyone wounds one every
now and then.

well later.
Jay Wade
From: mgriffin@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Mark Griffin)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: What will pheasant hunting be like in KS
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:06:44 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

This weekend, Nov. 14,15 is opening weekend for Pheasant hunting in KS.
Naturally, we already have our fields picked out to hunt, but I've heard
>from several sources that bird numbers are down this year compared to the
last two years.  Has anyone else heard anything about this.  I believe
Nebraska pheasant season opened last weekend, how did the hunters do there?

-- 
.   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .  .
Mark Griffin, Sys Admin, Fort Hays State University      |It is always better to
Internet:mgriffin@matt.ksu.ksu.edu Bitnet:mgriffin@ksuvm |do, than be done to.
.   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .  .
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: robert_walton@NeXT.COM (Robert Walton)
Subject: Shotgun Question
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:57:16 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


I went to a local store at lunch today and compared a Bronwing Citori  
Grade III and VI vs. the Trap model vs. a Weatherby Athena Grade IV.  I'll  
have to be honest that in terms of feel, fit, and finish, the Athena comes  
in on top, to my surprise.  It may be the one I end up with.  The list  
price on one of those out here is about $1950, and this store had it for  
$1699.  Is this a good price?  The Citori Grade VI was $2039 (list ~$2400)  
and the Grade III was $1495 (list ~$1695 I think).  Comments?

Any compelling reason *not* to go with the Weatherby?  I heard the  
receiver is made by SKB -- true?  Good or bad?  It looks like a stronger  
lock-up than the Browning, with a cross bolt at the top, not just the  
bottom.

Thanks,

Robert

P.S.  I hope Charlie Sorsby doesn't flame me for not opting for a side  
by...  :-)  [Great post on side by v. O/U myth, Charlie, and thanks for  
your advice to date!]


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: rbutler@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Randy Butler)
Subject: Re: Rabbits
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:24:12 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Nov6.085029.12421@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, mas@icf.hrb.com (Mark A. Singer) writes:
|>     Back in the 60's my father had a trap line for rabbits. The game
|> commission paid him 50 to 75 cents per rabbit that he caught. He would
|> then release the rabbits in a less populated area. The game commission
|> told him where to release them and supplyed him with all the wooden
|> box traps. The only time he trapped rabbits was in the winter mounths
|> because during the summer there was to so much natural food around and
|> it was hard to get arabbit to go in a box for a bite of apple.  Maybe
|> you should give the game commission a call but those days of trapping
|> and ralocating rabbits is probably gone.


I understand that rabbits are very territorial and introduction to a
new territory is usually not successfull, as the other bunnies chase
off or kill them.  Just thought this may be helpfull if you are trying
to decide between killing them or transplanting them(which is
essentially a slower method of killing them).


Randy Butler :-{)
NCSA
From: mggan@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Gregory A. Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Rabbits
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:50:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Nov6.085048.12488
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


	The rule of thumb that I've was taught was to take a close
look at the liver while cleaning them.  If it isn't purely dark red
don't eat it.  Sick or diseased rabbits will generally have either
a spotted or discolored liver.  

Greg.
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang)
Subject: Re: Pix of hunters using Politically Incorrect weapons needed
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:22:52 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Nov9.075455.4135@doug.cae.wisc.edu> Larry Scott,
scott@niwot.scd.ucar.edu writes:
>>You'll get no help from me. I hunt and I am absolutely APPALLED
>>that you and a bunch of other assholes are out there shooting
>>animals with military assault weapons. And an editor of a pro-gun
>>lobby newspaper to boot! The one thing hunters do NOT need is a
>>photo spread in your rag proving the fact. Hunters have a hard
>>enough time as it is with the public. You will only make it
>>worse for all of us. 
>
>	Can this guy be for real??!! What a completely idiot
>statement!  As long as the gun is accurate enough, the hunter handles
>it correctly, and the gun is "enough" gun for the prey you're after...
>What possible difference does it make what "style" of gun you use??!!
>Again I say, "What an idiot statement!!"
>
>	Larry Scott

Add to the fact that "Jim the idiot" is from Canada, he is not
fighting the "war" that we need to fight in this country...

  == Minh ==


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: motto@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto)
Subject: Another Perspective
Organization: AT&T
Date: 13 Nov 92 07:50:34 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Hi, everybody.
I just wanted to share with you my perspective on the "assault rifle"
issue.

Those who have read my previous writings know that I am pro-hunting and
at least open-minded on the gun issue (the rest of you just caught up).
Reading this thread about the "assault rifles" has been an education
for me, and that's why it's important to tell you this.

I thought they were real.

That is, I was ignorant of the fact that there was a difference between
the "assault rifles" that people wanted to have for hunting and sporting
purposes and the Assault Rifles that I saw in the movies blowing everything
and everybody to kingdom come.  Honest.  When I heard talk about "assault
rifles", I pictured Chuck Norris.  So, with those images in mind, I
thought private ownership of assault rifles was a major bad idea.  I think
that is similar to the thinking of most people (that giving the 'cinematic'
power of an Assault Rifle to a potential bad guy was a Bad Idea (TM) ).

So, I admit I was ignorant.  And I had no problem with semi-automatic
weapons.  I even gave my brother substantial funds for the purchase of
one as his graduation gift from the police academy (I'm so proud of him!)
But I was hoodwinked on the "assault rifle" issue.

So, like a lot of other uninformed people, I *was* scared by the look
(appearance) of "assault rifles".  But now I know the facts, and I
would have to say that I would be opposed to a ban, a reversal of my
previous position.

So, maybe the NRA should run a Ross Perot-style infomercial on the real
story to educate the public.

Mary Otto




Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: dans@Solbourne.COM (Dan Scott)
Subject: Pro-hunting Groups
Date: 13 Nov 92 07:51:30 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


	I have recently been feeling compelled to join and support some 
type of pro-hunting sportsmans group such as Izaak (sp?) Walton League,
Ducks Unlimited, NRA, or such. I'm not really familiar with any of these
groups but I know that I don't agree with some of the NRAs positions, 
and I don't want to support too narrow a group such as DU if they 
ignore deer, elk, predator, etc hunting. I remember reading about a
group that included a bunch of Congressmen (United States Sportsmens
Coalition or something like that) that were pro-hunting. I've seen some
.sig files that include the NRA so I'm sure I'll hear about them, but
are any readers members of a great, all-encompassing sportsmens
association? I would like to join a group that does lobbying as well
as conservation  projects that members can help construct/restore.
They would need to have a large membership to accomplish both, and
be a national organization to influence Washington.
	Considering the results of the Spring Bear Hunt ballot in
the elections, I have seen the handwriting on the wall........
its time to support more than just the Dept. of Wildlife.



			Dan Scott
			

Disclaimer: I'm not in a position to know Solbournes opinions,...yet.


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Subject: Re: What Kind of Hunting Rifle?
Organization: UNM Cancer Center
Date: 11 Nov 92 07:54:21 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Nov10.072425.11243@doug.cae.wisc.edu>,
      megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:
>
>Stick with the smallest caliber that will be appropriate for 1) the
>game you are hunting, and 2) the ranges you plan to hunt at.  You will
>thank us all for this advice.
>-- 
>
	I have to disagree with this statement.  In most cases, if you
  were to ask experienced hunters what the "smallest caliber appropriate
  for hunting X" was, you would probably get wildly varying answers, most
  of which would probably be too small for any margin of error on the game
  in question.  Now, I'm talking big game here, not varmint hunting. I
  know from experience that it's almost impossible to use "too big" a gun
  when it comes to elk, and many hunters are "under-gunned" (you may have
  seen my post about having to finish off a cow elk that had been wounded
  and lost by a hunter using a .270 Winchester.)  I'm really not trying
  to start an argument, I just want to point out that losing just one big
  game animal because you used too small a cartridge will hurt a lot more
  than the recoil of an adequate cartridge.  Of course, people vary greatly
  in their ability to handle recoil, and one should always start new shooters
  with light cartridges and work up to the bigger ones, but my advice would
  be to shoot a variety of rifles and find out what level of recoil you can
  handle without a problem, and then to use a cartridge at or just under this
  level of recoil for hunting truly "big" game, especially elk!

  -Bob

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer)
Subject: Re: Pix of hunters using Politically Incorrect weapons needed
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:51:09 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu
Keywords: semi-automatic, assault rifle, military-styled

>You'll get no help from me. I hunt and I am absolutely APPALLED
>that you and a bunch of other assholes are out there shooting
>animals with military assault weapons. And an editor of a pro-gun
>lobby newspaper to boot! The one thing hunters do NOT need is a
>photo spread in your rag proving the fact. Hunters have a hard
>enough time as it is with the public. You will only make it
>worse for all of us.

Hold it a minute. What is wrong with using an "assualt rifle" i.e.
a semi-auto not a real assault rifle? An sks is just a self loading
rifle of the .30-30 class. An M1-Garand is just a self loading
1903 springfield. What's your beef?

				mike


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Subject: Re: Deer's revenge?  more info sought
Organization: Chevron
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:23:13 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Nov9.075744.4647@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG) writes:
|> I just happened to hear on the news yesterday (local) about a nine pointer
|> up in Montrose near Flint Michigan that supposedly got a little unnerved
|> when a couple of unsuspecting hunters happened in on one of his more
|> active fall activities! (*ahem*)
|> 
|> Supposedly the deer became so violent that it became necessary for the men
|> to run to safety and call out the Michigan DNR.  The DNR upon taking sum
|> of the situation proceded to put the animal down with firearms.  I was
|> wondering what people may have heard on this story....

 There were several stories like that here in Texas last year.

 There was one about a big buck that killed some guy walking down 
 the RR tracks and found "guarding" the body when the police arrived.
 The buck attacked the cops and was shot.

 Some boys were attacked also elsewhere.

 And don't forget the guy who put doe scent on/near himself and
 was severally injured when an angered buck attacked from the rear.


 TRAVIS
From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Rabbits
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:50:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Nov6.085038.12454
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Nov5.084240.6325@doug.cae.wisc.edu> binnie@aclcb.purdue.edu (Al Binnie) writes:
=> there species of rabbits that I shouldn't even bother considering
=> eating?
= 
= Jack rabbits are mighty lean, quite gamey and tough.  Better buy a
= crock-pot and be patient if you want to eat them.  Your signature
= mentions a dog team- why not just cook 'em well and give them to the
= dogs if they're jacks?

Just a word of caution:  Treat rabbit bones, indeed *any* small
game bones, just as chicken bones if you decide to do this.


-- 
Best,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
	  crs@lanl.gov
From: halvorsen_ralph@mac-mailserver.atc.ll.mit.edu ("Halvorsen Ralph")
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Question: Chris Barnes
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:41:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Nov6.084132.12084
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Just cleaning up old mail and came across the dialogue re: Chris
Barnes vs the anti-hunting feminist. How did the rebuttal come out
Chris?
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Subject: Re: Advice needed on used 4x4 pickups
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:25:33 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Ford?
Well Toyota has been the best seller for 15 years in a row. They and
Mazda are top rated in the Powers ratings. The toyota is considered the
model by which others are judged. Not Ford.
However, even though I'm the worlds biggest Toyota fan, I have read an 
article that has convinced me to buy American next time (even if its not
as good).



Newsgroups: rec.hunting