From: eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun)
Subject: Re: Possible to Obtain magic powers>?
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago IL
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Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:14:30 GMT
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>>jds2@po.CWRU.Edu (John D. Specht) writes:
 
: > 
: A little ego, a little confusion, a little beginning. That's what I
: always felt. I would argue that reading one book is meaningless to study,
: and reading hundreds is a beginning. Once you try to explain a phenomenon
: to yourself in many ways at the same time, you begin to find useful 
: confusion.<<

Ego is like an animal which we all posses. The "challenge" is to domesticate
it so we can "ride" it not so "it" rides us. A little ego is like a
household pet. Which we think is our possession, but in keeping it we find
ourselves bound as its slave. If this gives you a little confusion, good!
Then you have begun a little begining.

>>: There is one very easy to find source which will provide all of the tools
: you need, and all of the lessons you shall learn: your own mind.<<

That is where a "teacher" is important. One's own mind can be more deceptive
than another person could deceive. For in another person it is easier to
expose them and know they have deceived you. In one's own mind, one can
remain ever deceived as the one cannot see one's self except by reflection
which is one of the function of a teacher. That is to be, like a looking
glass.

>>: I would add that there is a fine line of difference between _control_ and 
: _influence_ and I rely entirely on the latter. I would not create a storm, I
: would ask it to consider another course which would benifit it, and myself.
: That is what I have learned from Zen.<<

True. But how much more difficult is it to distinguish between the subtle
and the gross? Is not influence as manipulative as control? In the face of a
storm it is better to bend with its wind, but a storm does not listen to
reason, because it has only one purpose. To spend itself.


>>: I would ask for a clearer definition of 'power trip'...Is this the feeling
: one gets from using power? Or is it more the false impression of using power?<<

Nigris gave a good example in the quote you gave. It is a false presumption
that one has in pretense of being omnipotent. Many people quote "Do as thou
wilt" but few know what to really do to begin with.


>>: I would not strive for more power, I still have not found the bounds of
: what I have. I give of mine freely, and never run short. My power is only 
: limited by my limitations, and if I were to believe I would run out, surely
: I would do so.
: 
: 
: The greatest gift is self.<<

Unfortunately, though this is very beautiful, and selfless, it is also
urealistic. Each person comes into this world to learn something. Some
however, need to pass through difficulties that no one can, no matter what
power you freely transfer, assist them. The nature of humanity is to be
ungrateful. We learn appreciation only through philosophical codes or
integrety, which again is a learning process.
There's the crux of the problem. An individual cannot learn unless they are
capable to "see" for themselves.
If you will to help, the only thing you can do is to inspire them to
recognize or become aware of that which they seek but you cannot make them
"see" what they would not want to see. to quote: You can take a horse to the
water, but you cannot make them drink"

Greater is the gift of knowledge. For through it we manifest wisdom for that
is the only thing we can take with us when we die. And perhaps, that is the
only reason we have incarnated to begin with.

For what is it, that is the only thing one can keep when by death we pass
to the land of silence?

: 
>>: P.S. Thank you for the interesting and thought provoking discussion<<

You're Welcome.

Eshin-Fun

Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.psychoactives