HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The illogic of draining levels
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:24:21 GMT
 <1992Aug21.132730.1127@bnr.ca> <1992Aug23.111631.649@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>
 <1992Aug24.140856.7785@bnr.ca> <1992Aug24.121746.660@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>
 <1992Aug25.132858.5777@bnr.ca> <4911@balrog.ctron.com>
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <4911@balrog.ctron.com>, cyoung@ctron.com (Chris Young) says:
>
>The problem with draining levels is that there is no saving thow.  You're hit,
>your drained.  There are saves against dragon breath and most spells (of
>course
>half damage is sometimes too much anyhow).

 How true ! That's the reason why in over 12 years of gaming/DMing
I have only used life-draining monsters at most half a dozen times.

 However, since there is no rule that says that the DM has to stick
to the rules even when he doesn't think that they are right, I have
given my players a saving roll vs death when hit by any such creatures.
If they fail their saves, they lose one life level (NOTE: only one life
level drain per successful hit); if they save then instead of losing a
life level all they lose is 1d10+6 hit points (I don't want to weaken
these monsters too much either !)

 To me this seems like a fair way of being able to use these monsters
without killing half the party within the first five melee rounds.
I have been satisfied with the results (and so have my players).

-- Jose L. Martinez --
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: Rannou@info.polymtl.ca (Patrick Rannou)
Subject: Re: Why are their level limits?
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada
	<1992Aug24.142442.12248@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
	<MGATES.92Aug25142122@entiat.boeing.com> <78533@ut-emx.uucp>
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 07:48:41 GMT

In article <78533@ut-emx.uucp> heath@anchor.as.utexas.edu (James Heath) writes:

[...]
	   My solution?  Since the demi-human races live longer than humans, their
   minds work more slowly;  they "take the long view".  A bad side of this is 
   that they learn more slowly than humans.  In game terms, this means that it
   takes demi-humans more xp to move up than humans.  My algorithm to adjust the
   basic tables in the PH2 is below:


	   program calcxp


[program deleted]

Huh, in what language is that written???

Can you type in in C instead? It would make it just that much more
universal...

And for us unimpaired types, what exactly does it do? It seems like a
awfully complex program for just getting a "slowing down" of XP gains
according to a character's maximum age (if that's the value you used).

Sorry for the awful waste of bandwitdh.

--
/---------------------------\
| Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
| Rannou@info.polymtl.ca    |
\---------------------------/

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: maxson@cerl.uiuc.edu (K R Maxson)
Subject: Re: What is with these Katana's?
Organization: UIUC Computer-based Education Research Lab
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 21:56:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.200413.21792@burrhus.harvard.edu>, canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson) writes:
>	Here's something I've been wondering about for quite some time:
>Why does a katana do d10 damage in AD&D?  Why is it so much better than a
>scimitar or even a long sword.  Don't make sense to me.
>one or two handed.

Well, there has been a fair amount of incorrenct information in some of
these followup postings.

The masame and nogi-hada styles of Japanese blademaking resulted in
32,768 folds in the steel -- taking a kataha bar, doubling it on itself
and welding, repeating 15 times.  Masamune and other famous makers took
four kataha and made blades with 4,194,304 layers.

Of course, there were inferior styles of blade manufacture: suyeha,
wariha, moroha, ori awase san mai, kobushi, shihozume, and others.

Katana and tachi generally had blades between 24 and 30 inches long,
with hand-and-a-half sized hilts.  [The wakizashi was largely a ceremonial
weapon, used for hari-kiri or seppuku, although also used as a
supplementary weapon in combat.  It was not used by the peasantry, and
was generally more ornate than the accompanying katana as it would be
carried with its owner even inside another's house.]

It is generally acknowledged that the Japanese swordsmith's blades
were among the finest ever produced.  Traditionally, the tests of a
fine blade were (1) cut a common blade in two without having its edge
nicked, and (2) cut the stem of a lotus floating down a stream, the
blade held erect in the running water.  There is a great deal of
documentation on the first, but not the second test.

But, more specifically, to answer your question in terms of Dungeons
and Dragons -- just because.  The entire weapon damage system is so
intensely moronic that I gag thinking about it.  1D6 from a longbow
arrow?  Retch.
From: StarWatcher@uiuc.edu (StarWatcher)
Subject: Re: Why are there level limits?
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Reply-To: StarWatcher@uiuc.edu
Organization: Actuarial Science Program at UIUC
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:44:13 GMT
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content

(Please people, can we start using the right homophone in subject lines?)

ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:

: 
: I want to know in what book and on what page it's written that multi-class
: mages cannot wear armor.  I've looked for it throughout the PH, and couldn't
: find it.
: 
: Do you remember where you read this?

PHBv2, p. 30: " Wizards cannot wear any armor, for several reasons.  Firstly,
most spells require complicated gestures and odd posturings by the caster
and armor restricts the wearer's ability to do these properly.  Secondly,
the wizard spent most of his youth...learning arcane languages, poring
through old books, and practicing his spells.  This leaves no time for 
learning other things.... If the wizard had spent his time learning about
armor, he would not have even the meager skills and powers he begins with."

PHBv2, p. 45: "A multi-classed wizard can freely combine the powers of the
wizard with any other class allowed, although the wearing of armor is
restricted.  Elves wearing elven chain can cast spells in armor, as magic
is part of the nature of elves...."

PHBv2, p. 45: "A dual-class fighter/mage, for example, cannot cast spells
while wearing armor."

Complete Wizard's Handbook, p. 34: "In no case is a wizard allowed to
purchase armor."

Anyone else have more references?
--
Michael Adams / StarWatcher

sig not yet ready
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: alongley@cape.UWaterloo.ca (Allan Longley)
Subject: Demi-humans vs. Humans (was: Re: Why are their level limits?)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:52:41 GMT

In article <78533@ut-emx.uucp> heath@anchor.as.utexas.edu (James Heath) writes:
>
>Example: Elven fighter with high STR, DX and INT virtual immunity to charm
>(a bane to fighters) +1 to hit with a weapon, which s/he will certainly 
>spec. in secret door detection	stealth	low CON is ONLY minus!
>
>	On the other side of the coin, there must be some kind of limitation,

There are major limitations, but they are not stats or numbers so all those
min-max players don't consider it.  RACIAL HATRED!!  Demi-humans
continuously run into problems do to their race ... and NOT only with
monsters!  Of course there is the monster problem, many monsters or evil
humanoids will preferrentually (sp?) attack an elf, or gnome, etc.  This
will lead to battle where the demi-humans are fending for their lives while
the humans are free to attack whatever/whenever.  Also, since humans are the
dominate race (I don't know if race is the right term ... species??) there
are many humans/organizations/countries/empires that dispise/out-law/enslave
demi-humans.  I have always played this way, my players know it, like it (as
it adds much spice to the game) and many still play demi-humans (cause
they're fun).  But in many situations demi-humans are at an extreme
disadvantage compared to the humans.

Another big minus to demi-humans ... they CANNOT be raised from the dead.
Raise dead only works on creatures with souls (which includes dwarves) but
NOT on creatures with spirits (animals, elves, gnomes).  And this IS NOT a
house rule.

As for the racial limitations:  some make sence, some don't.  I use a
modified racial limititation system (like most DM's).  For example, it makes
sence that hobbits are restricted as warriors, and dwarves as thieves, etc.
As for extreme levels, think of what a 30th level character does ... pretty
difficult eh!  Most fighters will be dead by know ... killed in some great
battle.  Most clerics are either dead (as fighters) or very close to their 
god(dess) and become a kind of saint ... teaching wisdom and guidence.  Most
mages are either dead (as fighters) or have blow themselves up doing magical
research or are doing magical research.  This will leave the extremely rare
case of an active, very high level demi-human --- and they are legends!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan Longley, University of Waterloo, Department of Chemical Engineering
e-mail: alongley@cape.uwaterloo.ca
voice: (519) 885-1211 x3816		Back to work
home: (519) 746-5747
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Kind of a compilation of level-draining ideas
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:04:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle


 > ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
 > OK, some people think that draining a level (or two) on every hit is
 [ disagreement about proposals expunged]
 > I've never seen it.  I just thought this might be a good way to handle it.

Another possibility for draining by undead:

  The drain takes the form of a curse laid on the character at the level of
  the undead. The curse lowers the MAXIMUM hit point total of the character
  by a number equal to the number of levels drained. To restore the total,
  the character needs to address the original reason that the undead were    
  activated. If they appeared due to, say, a particularily hideous murder,
  then the murderer needs to be slain or brought to justice. If the undead
  vampire was spawned by another vampire, then the original vampire needs
  to be slain. And so on. Alternately, a Remove Curse could be cast at a
  particularily high level. Whatever the means, restoring the hit point
  maximum can be performed through some task or deed, and does not have to
  be restored by more weeks of role-playing. The undead are still to be
  feared because they can seriously weaken the characters ability to survive,
  until such time as the curse is removed.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. I make no claims about originality for this
idea, but I think it makes a certain amount of sense.

-- 
 Bob Hall,                 | "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
 Workstation Peripheral    | Then give up. No use being a damn fool about it."
 Boeing Computer Services  |                                     -Groucho Marx
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: maxson@cerl.uiuc.edu (K R Maxson)
Subject: Re: What is with these Katana's?
Organization: UIUC Computer-based Education Research Lab
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:16:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.162929.27046@burrhus.harvard.edu> canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson) writes:
>	I thought it might be a 2-hander.  I think the FHB rules say you
>can use it either way.  From the ones I've seen, they're not much bigger
>than a long sword, but do have plenty of room on the grips for two hands.
>That could explain the greater damage, but then I would expect something
>between the damage for a long sword and a bastard sword (as bastard sword
>being larger.  Perhaps simply as a long sword used two-handed?

"Not much bigger than a long sword?"  You realize that the "long sword"
is a fictional weapon invented for DND, unless you are using "long" in
its generic sense as a modifier for "sword."

Japanese blade lengths:
	jin tachi	33" +
	tachi		24" - 30"
	katana		24" - 30"
	chisa katana	18" - 24"
	wakizashi	16" - 20"
	tanto		11" - 16"
	aikuchi		11" - 16"
	yoroi toshi	9" - 12"
	kwaiken		3" - 6"
The hilt of the katana was 8" - 10" long so that it could be used with
either one or both hands.

For comparison:

A broadsword was a sword with a straight, wide, single-edged blade.  It
was the military sword of the 17th century as distinguished from the
rapier (the civil sword).  It generally had a basket hilt with a 
complicated guard of loops and shells.  Their blade length was highly
variable, but the mean might have been a little under 36".

Generally, swords ranged from about 26" to 36".  It was unusual
to see swords longer, although they were certainly made and possibly
even used.  The "high fantasy" image of a guy with a sword hanging
from his waist, its point dragging on the floor, is a bit silly; and
claymores don't tend to be much bigger than any other sword.  It is
a bitch making a good blade much over three feet.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: cb317@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephanie J. Kessler)
Subject: Re: Improving a skill with a weapon
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 22:36:19 GMT


Do you have access to the Complete  Fighter's Handbook?  There
are  weapon and fighting styles in there that might be useful or
give you ideas.  On page 78, there is a section on continuing
your specialization.   Now, this is for martial arts styles, but
it could be applied (with  DM approval) to any weapon.  For each
slot devoted to your specialized weapon, you get  bonus.  The 1st
extra slow is +1 to hit, the next is +1 to damage, and after that,
you get a +1 chart bonus.  You might rules tht you alternate
+1 to hit and +1 to bonus per slot...
-- 
The United States is a nation of laws:  badly written and
randomly enforced.     Frank Zappa

cb317 @ cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: knight@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Lindsey Lambert)
Subject: An Interesting Question
Organization: Computer and Technologies Theme Program, NCSU, Raleigh
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:18:34 GMT



While gaming the other night we ran into a perplexing problem...


	A party of five summoned a greater beholder (via
	his true name and a book on summoning) who had been 
	presenting some problems for a nearby elven forest.
	During the course of the fight, the paladin was
	polymorphed into a garden snake (he maintained his
	personality). *Here comes the fun part* (evil grin ;^)
	Then the Paladin's +3 intelligent long sword was
	polymorphed (via polymorph any object) into a hawk
        (the intelligent sword also managed to retain its
	personality). At some point in the combat the inteligent
	sword turned hawk was killed via a blast of magical
	energy.

		The question is this...
	
	Would a speak with dead work on the hawk since the
	sword managed to retain its personality when polymorphed?	
	What happens if the Paladin has someone (high level
	church member) cast dispel magic cast upon the dead hawk?
		(Does the Paladin then have a +3 unintelligent sword?)
	What happens if the Paladin has a resurrection cast upon
	the dead hawk, followed by a dispel magic?

	
	Note - The party was successful, although at great loss,
	       and managed to kill the greater beholder with an
	       arrow inscribed with his true name.

	
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Why are their level limits?
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:34:15 GMT
Organization: The Dorsai Grey Captains

In article <1992Aug28.184548.5216@meaddata.com> gregs@meaddata.com (Greg Smith) writes:
>In article <67022@hydra.gatech.EDU>, ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca) writes:

[Wizard in armor is somewhat useless]

>But if the wizard is out of spells and the party wishes to continue, this would
>at least afford him some better protection.  Of course offensively he/she would
>be not much of a threat.

This is true.  It is also true, though, that continuing on when your mages
are out of spells is often not a good idea; our party tends to get beat on 
pretty badly when this happens.

[I may not allow wizards to multi-class]

>Well, in your world you should certainly be allowed to make this call, hopefully
>with the approval of your players.  In 2nd edition, I don't believe multiclass
>Mu's can cast spells in armor.  If they wear it they are basically acting as a
>fighter.  (there are some exceptions, like elfin chain, however).  How would you
>handle a dual class human fighter mage?  (Assume that he's free to mix his 
>classes at this point)

I don't generally spring house rules without at least the grudging consent
of players, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.  

How would I handle a dual-class?  Good question; I hadn't really thought 
about it.  At a first guess, I'd let him wear armor since it's pretty 
impractical to do it any other way.

>True, but if Jorge want to try and make his version of the rules make more 
>sense, he should be free to do so.

Oh, of course.  When he becomes a DM he can run his world as he pleases. :-)

[Clerics who spend times on weapon specializations aren't good clerics]

>Sounds like a subjective opinion to me.  What if the cleric worshipped the god of
>war and combat?

Of course it is a subjective opinion; what other kinds of opinions are 
there?

If the study of the art of war is part of the worship of that deity, then
I can see an exception being made.  I probably still wouldn't allow it, simply
because I feel it overemphasizes combat as opposed to 'priestly duties'.
-- 
Matthew DeLuca                      "I'd hire the Dorsai, if I knew their 
Georgia Institute of Technology      P.O. box."
Office of Information Technology                - Zebediah Carter, 
Internet: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu              _The Number of the Beast_
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: sorflet@bnr.ca (Winston Sorfleet)
Subject: Use stat limits not level limits (was:Re: Demi-humans vs. Humans 
Reply-To: sorflet@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:51:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.221419.13384@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, whayden@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Bill Hayden;;;;) writes:
>This "racial limitation" thread has gone on for a few days, weeks, whatever...
>If some of the DM's use modified racial limitation systems.... then let's
>see some of them so some of us can see some of our errors and change our ways.
>
As a partial solution, I suggest limiting stats on demi-humans, for example
max STR 17 for an elf.  That way we don't have elves built like Conan (kinda
dumb looking in any event) but they can be just as skilled as a human...
although humans with 18/xx STR would be more likely to advance to the higher
levels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Winston Sorfleet			|
Contributing Editor, Ianus Publications	| Bell-Northern Research, Dept. 7K34
wls@doe.carleton.ca			| sorflet@x400gate.bnr.ca
Opinions expressed are purely personal and do not represent Northern Telecom
or Bell-Northern Research in any way.
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Why are there level limits?
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content
Date: 30 Aug 92 10:39:54 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <BtsJp4.645@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Lady and her Walrus) writes:

>I see your problem.  Now, is this for purposes of character, out of necessity
>(i.e. you're one of the few people in the party capable of combat), or is
>it just munchkinism?

Well, here's the deal.  In our party, we have 2 rangers, a paladin, a
fighter, me, a thief, and two mages.  So I shouldn't be worrying about
fighting, right?

Well, two problems.

1), I tend to stay in the second rank (two warriors take the front and
    two take the back).  On more than one occasion I've managed to get
    attacked (and HIT) in the second rank.  I don't know what the buggers
    use, but they somehow manage to hit me.  So I'd like a little protection.

2), We almost never have the entire group show up.  At our last session,
    one of our warriors was killed, and two others didn't show up.  It was
    me, the fighter, and the two mages.  Now, obviously the fighter is going
    to do most of the fighting.  But he can't do it all himself.  That leaves
    me and the mages.  Who do you think should do the fighting?

>Although come to think of it, if you're a mage/priest, you're an elf or
>half-elf, right?  Why not just hold out for elven chain?  You're likely
>to find it sometime or other, and no matter why you want to do this, it
>would still enable you to do both.  

Well, I *am* a half-elf.  Only problem is I'm 5'8" tall, so it's hard to
find elven chain that is made in my size - we've fought some drow before,
and took theirs - it was too small, way too small.  Also, it dissolved
as soon as we took it into the sunlight. :-)


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: laruedm@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (David Larue)
Subject: Need list of FTP sites!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:14:23 GMT

One: I need a list of FTP sites for downloading IBM, C format, and Unix
format ADND files, text files on new spells, etc., and campaign ideas.

Two:  Does anyone have an opinion on giving bonuses to theives for hide in
shadows/move silently/climb walls/etc. if the theif has less than xxx
encumberance and/or xxx coins of items?  

I use the following table:

Coins of weight   |bonus for:              |
                  |HiS|MS |PP |CW |Backstab|
100% of max       |-10|-8 |-5 |-9 |x0.5    |
75%               |-2 |-1 |-1 |-3 |x0.9    |
50%               |0  |0  |0  |0  |x1      |
25%               |+2 |+1 |+1 |+3 |x1.5    |
10%               |+3 |+3 |+4 |+2 |x2      |
0%-7%             |+5 |+5 |+7 |+4 |x3      |

Since less weight would mean quicker climbing, silenter movement, more
stealth...Ideas?

-= Justin =-
From: ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Munchikinism/Min-Maxing (Require Def'n)
Date: 29 Aug 92 12:04:59 GMT
Organization: Economics, University of Adelaide

> I heard a great quote the other day
> from a player in The Bastard DM from Hell's campaign:  
> 
> "well I had the Hammer of Thunderbolts and all the other things that go with
> it, but I'm not a munchkin...."  This is exactly munchkin. 


before Phil, BDMFH, gets upset I should point out that he is not a munchkin,
just that this player had a munchkin character in anothwer game.
regs

Rob
From: maxson@cerl.uiuc.edu (K R Maxson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: What is with these Katana's?
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:46:12 GMT
Organization: UIUC Computer-based Education Research Lab

Actually, the only blade you would have been likely to see on a serf
was a himogatana.  Spears (like the well-known "woman's spear," the
naginata) were the peasantry's weapon of choice.  Possession of a
sword by most of the populace of Japan was punishable by death for
a long, long time -- since it usually indicated that the villagers
had killed a wandering samurai and looted his body.

Although I am not a fantastic authority, everything I have read or
heard indicates that wakizashi were, in fact, only used by the
hereditary swordweilding classes; unless you are talking about much
more modern times.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd