From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: 16 Dec 1992 15:13:06 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <gate.71XLVB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil writes:
>
>Recycling PORCELAIN??? 
>1. There is no shortage of the raw materials (as in clay)... a good portion
>of this planet is made of the stuff. NO ONE foresees our running out of it.

So are you saying it's better to use raw materials and throw away unusable
endproducts thereby creating more garbage just because there's no derth
of the raw material? Hardly a farsighted point of view.

>2. Would you like to come up with an estimate on how much electrical power
>it would take to reduce a toilet into fine powder, what chemical processing
>will be required to make it practical to reuse this powder?

Why is turning it into a fine powder the only way to recycle? Just what does
"recycle" mean to you? You have a tendency to look at the big picture through
a microscope, thereby limiting your view.

>Recycling building materials? A building being taken down and trucked to
>a landfill without salvaging salvageable materials is more an exception
>than anything else. Copper plumbing and wire, pipes, doors, and any "high
>value" item on the property gets salvaged for later resale, haven't you
>ever been to a building supply place that sells used components? 
>As for plasterboard, that's another of those cases where recycling is not
>in order. (see toilets)

Actually, where I grew up, the landfills were littered with the remnants
of demolished buildings. It's much easier, and less costly for the contractor
to simply run a buldozer over the building, stuff it into some dump trucks
and haul it off to the landfill. The exception is probably copper in any
form. Wood almost never gets reused, as it's usually structurally unsound.
I used to work for a builder, and made many trips to the landfill, so I
speak from direct experience. Sometimes people would reclaim the red bricks
to use for borders around gardens and such, but it's such a limited use,
that probably only about five percent of the useable bricks don't end up
in the landfill.

>As for wood, one frequently finds used lumber for sale as well. The stuff
>that isn't resaleable as lumber in many cases should NOT be burned as
>firewood, being treated with chemicals used to keep termites and other things
>from eating it which qualify as serious biohazards if burned.

As I said above, most wood that's already been used in a building is usually
so old, or so riddled with nails and such that is not very structurally sound.
Yes, this wood could be used for other purposes than buildings, but there's
still alot of waste after you've taken the useable bits, and what happens to
that? A better use for this waste wood would be as particle board, but the
big problem here is getting the nails and other metal fasteners out so as
not to wreck the chippers processing the wood to particles. Here's an example
of shitwork types of jobs that could be set up for the homeless/jobless. A
company could hire these people at minimum wage to go through the wood and
cull the metal bits out before sending it on to the processors. But the
problem is that these companies aren't going to create these jobs because
it's not cost effective for them. They'd have to increase their prices,
and that impacts on the buyers who are you and me, and it just goes on. The
thing that's not being seen here is that it isn't the money that should be
so bloody important, but what we do with our natural resources, ie. wood,
clay, and people. Most importantly people. They're the only natural resoucre
that's not in immediate danger of running out, at least at the moment.

>I think some serious study of how things REALLY work, from natural processes
>to recycling to how things are actually made in a technological culture
>is in order for Ashley, unless Ashley wants to provide unintentional
>entertainment to the users of this newsgroup.

Since you seem so intent on insisting that others here get some "serious
study," and since your comments would lead us to belive that you've had
this, how about cluing the rest of us in. You've had some good things to
say that I've defended and agreed with, but I won't sit back and let you
devolve this into another flame war just because you can't keep the derision
out of your comments. This kind of shit only succeeds in getting completely
off the topic and everyone then starts talking about what an asshole so and
so is. It's time to STOP!

Dammit people we're in this boat together, and complaining that someone is
using the wrong kind of cork to stop up the leaks without providing the
right kind of cork themselves only insures that the boat will sink with all 
hands. Instead of taking it upon ourselves to point out what an idiot we think
someone is, we should be trying to educate each other. We should also do this
in such a way that we don't start these totally unnecessary flame wars. If
it's merely a fight you want, call Rush Limbaugh or G. Gordon Liddy and talk
to them. Or better, get a gun and go to Bosnia or Somalia. Christ on a mini
bike! Don't be destructive, be constructive. If someone comes up with an idea
that's a little harebrained, help them to see that there's a better way, 
don't just tell them you're going to laugh at them if they don't get an
education. This finger pointing is senseless and stupid.

Bb,
Corun

-- 
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    Corun MacAnndra    |    My opinions *are* those of my boss, because
  Dark Horde by birth  |   he is me, and I am he, and we are all together.
    Moritu by choice   |                 Coo coo cachoob.