From: buckley@betelgeuse.llnl.gov (Bill Buckley)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Laboratory Imformation Management Systems - SUMMARY
Keywords: LIMS, RDBMS, summary
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:15:29 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

Here are the informational responses to my query a while back on LIMS
systems:


Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1992 12:28:08 +0200
From: Paul Bartholdi <bartho@scsun.unige.ch>
Subject: laboratory information management system (LIMS)

Hello,

I would suggest that you have a look at two non-standard products, outside 
the usual rdB ones:

1. /rdb  Unix Relational Database.  It runs also on pc (and possibly now on vms).

   The main idea is to use extensively the unix possibilities, in particular
   i/o redirections, pipes, and commands as sed, awk, grep etc.

   /rdb is made of more than 100 commands that the user links toegther to make
   very powerfull ones.

   We have invistageted very carefully Ingresm, Oracle, Sybase etc and could
   not find what we wanted for lab database.  They are all to cumbersome,
   miss what we think is important like an easily readable journal of all
   updates and finaly are very expensive and badly supported.

   /rdb have other drawbacks,  it implies a good basic understanding of unix,
   at least for the rdb manager and programmers, but not necessarily for the
   end user.  If you like unix, you will like it; if you hate it, go to next pt.

   /rdb do not support directely SQL which we thought would be necessary. With
   the experience we have now, we find that it is very easy to convert from-to
   SQL, and, as expected, some work is much easier with /rdb than SQL, others
   are more difficult, with speed quite comparable.  /rdb is much easier to 
   setup, modify, distribute on many machines etc.  

   Ingres (and Oracle etc) are definitely much better if your problem is more
   transaction oriented, and if confidentiality is very sensitive between
   users.

   As a final word, /rdb use standard ascii files, provide a library that can
   be called from fortran, C etc.  It is very easy to combine with other
   product (graphics, spreadsheets etc).  From our experience, it takes far
   less space on disk than all others.  

   Our first  database is made of about 20 tables, the largest is 280'000 
   records making 35MB. The full database takes 150MB.  It runs on a sparc
   station 2.  If you have any question, i will be glad to answer.

   For commercial informations, talk to
                   Evan Schaffer : evan@rsw.rsw.com
                             tel : (408) 429 6229

2. IDL from Research Systems Inc.

   First: we DO NOT USE IDL, but I know many users that are very happy.

   The main advantage of IDL is to encompass the real time data acquisition
   with the organisation (dB) of the measurements and the simulataneous
   control/graphical presentation of them.  They should run on unix and vms
   (and pc, but ...)

   I like very much the idea to track the data at the source, in real time,
   and not to organise them later.

   RSI address:  tel: (303) 786 9900   fax: (303) 786 9909

I hope this can be of some use for you.  All the experiences around me tell
that the usual dB are not scientifically oriented, neither lab oriented, that
the technical support are very bad (I coul'nt find a happy user!).

Best regards,                            Paul Bartholdi.

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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1992 13:13:27 +1000
From: sah%gdwb.OZ.AU@uunet.uu.net
Subject: LIMS System 

Bill

We are also looking for an Ingres Based LIMS system. The only system that meets our requirements is a system called VG Lims. this is supplied by 
VG Laboratory Systems Limited in England.

The USA representatives are 
VG Instruments Inc 32 Commerce Centre, Cherry Hill Drive, Danvers
Massachusetts 01923 Tel (508) 777 0678 Fax (508) 777 0678.

Our major problem is that we are total sun site and the system is VMS based. 
However they are porting to unified code which run in all unix environments  but the date for porting is a major problem which started as June 1992 and is now out to November 1992.

The system is VT340 based and has other features
Sample Manager
Works on multiple database Ingres, Oracle and RDB
Audit trails
Record level security
Batch trees
and Instrument server to assist in data collection.

Ps I do not know how current the US address as it was on the back of a handout
 if you cannot contact I will go through our reps for a current address.
PPS
I would appreciate any feed back as the November 1992 is getting a bit long and we may have to write our own ( I would prefer a package).

PPPS Our lab people reallt like VG LIMS but we need the Sun version to run it.



Date: Tue, 30 Jun 92 11:01:16 PDT
From: hjang@altos.altos.com (Howie Jang)

Dear LIMS's searcher:

It's very coincident that I read your messages about LIMS, accually I just got
this account a few days ago.

I was the system analyst in Altos Computer Systems now, I did the coding of the LIMS package for my previous job in N.E.T. Inc. using Informix 4GL and Sql under Unix system.  The package we design was used for the sample track, testing result analyses, basic accounting function(AR and Invoice), customer information and disk deliverable function.  

The problem we got were the following:

1. How to read the data directly from the instrument (Like HP's instrument)
2. How to build a universal test code.  This really gave us a big headache since every lab use their own test code list. 
3. How to setup a distributed database system. 
4. How to define a test code by group, by procedure and by parameter.

The latest Informix which I used in Altos now have a good extention to use for distributed purpose.  The problem of 1 should be solved since the network was more mature and gave more and better solutions.  The test code list will work only when you have a clear definition.

If you are more like to do the distributed system, I will prefer you to use
Sybase.  Sybase was a relational database designed under the client/server
architecture.

I would like to hear from you since this is the first time I use usenet.


Howie Jang
(O) 408-432-6200 ext:2231 in San Jose
(H) 510-484-0728          in Pleasanton



Subject: Reply to your req for Lab systems
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 19:24:05 -0400
From: Hollis "The Big Kahuna" Ross <rossh@terminus.umd.edu>





Dear Bill,

A business acquaintance has just shown me a net posting by you
in the comp.databases group relating to LIMS systems.  Neither
I nor the company I work for has net access :-( therefore I
have asked a friend to send this message on my behalf.

Our company does offer a general LIMS system.  It is written
in Progress and will run on any (or all) of the platforms
specified and lots more.  It can even run in a mixed
environment i.e. client-server with (say) DOS or Unix clients
talking to a database on a VAX or Unix machine.

Our LIMS system (its called LAB-PRO) is designed as a flexible
system for the tracking of samples, tests and results through
the laboratory.  It also handles reporting and billing (if
desired).  On top of that it has other goodies such as inter-
laboratory QC program tracking, controls and standards,
instrument/asset maintanance tracking and much more.

Our company has been involved in laboratory computer systems
since the early 80's and LAB-PRO is our latest product - a
completely new system but drawing on our experience from the
past.  We have two installed sites for the new package and are
in the process of negotiating several others.  We have been
targeting organisations such as food and beverage
manufacturers, local government testing labs and national
government regulatory testing authorities.

We do not currently have an American distributor - we are in
the process of appointing one in Australia and the US will
follow later.  However we do have experience in supporting
sites around the world (Taiwan, Fiji, Australia, England) so
we would feel confident in supplying anywhere.

Our address is
     Progressive Systems Ltd.
     PO Box 11-780
     Wellington
     New Zealand

     Phone     64-4-384-3725
     Fax       64-4-385-6032

If you want to get in touch - send letters, faxes etc to me and
I'll pass it on to our marketing people.

Regards,
Ross Temple



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Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 14:21:15 PDT
From: "Bill Martin" <wmartin@us.oracle.com>
Subject: Livermore LIMS Response


Dear Mr. Buckley,

In response to your E-Mail requesting information on LIMS packages, please find
the following Oracle based LIMS solutions as candidates for your search and
evaluation process.  

Oracle VARs with LIMS packages:

Automated Compliance Systems
Target Industries: Environmental, Pharmaceutical, Energy
Products: SEEDPAK1, SEEDPAK2
Contact: Ronald Joho
	 908/707-4100

Egret Technologies, Inc.
Cross Industry
Products: EQuIS/LAB, EQuIS/RDB, EQuIS/SWM, EQuIS/GWM, EQuIS/CHEM 
Contact: Michael R. Pallesen
         707/468-9010

Fisons Instruments
Cross Industry
Product: VG Sample Manager - SQL
Contact: Benjamin Yellen
	 508/777-8034

Molecular Design Ltd.
Target Industries: Government, Chemical, Pharmaceutical, Energy
Products: ISIS/ORACLE Gateway, MACCS-II DBMS Interface to ORACLE, SQL*Forms
	   Interface to MACCS-II
Contact: Donna del Rey
	 510/895-1313

PE Nelson 
Cross Industry
Products: Focal Point, SQL*LIMS, SQL*QC, SQL*SCHEDULE, SQL*STABILITY
Contact: David Beggs
	 408/725-1107


In addition, I am aware of two other LIMS systems that exist within the
Federal sector.  They would only require the necessary Oracle products needed
to run these systems.  The points of contact are as follows:

Environmental Protection Agency
Mr. Mickey Klein
(919) 541-2500

Westinghouse Savannah River
Mr. Terry Burns
(803) 557-2495


If I can be of further assistance to your efforts, please do not hesitate to
contact me.  Thank you.

Bill Martin
District Manager
Federal Civilian Division
(415) 506-5092   MS: 659314



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