From: tomster@banzai.WPI.EDU (Thomas Richard Dibble)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Defense of CLI
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:31:07
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
	<6042.2ac32a2f@hayes.com> <1992Sep27.225543.42016@news.th-darmstadt.de>
	<6062.2ac7154d@hayes.com> <TOMSTER.92Sep28222039@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>
	<ewright.717801217@convex.convex.com>
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In-reply-to: ewright@convex.com's message of 29 Sep 92 21:13:37 GMT

In article <ewright.717801217@convex.convex.com> ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:


   In <TOMSTER.92Sep28222039@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> tomster@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Thomas Richard Dibble) writes:

   >Okay.  'select del (*.*)'.  Then I'm selecting which files I want to delete
   >by highlighting and pressing space-bar.
   >Or.  'except(select (*.*)) del *.*'.  Then I select which files I *don't* want
   >to delete.  If I don't remember the exact syntaxt, 'except /?' gives me
   >the syntaxt.

   Well, the word "syntaxt" isn't in my dictionary.  Presumeably you
   mean syntax.  Yet another CLI user who believes that typing errors
   are not a problem but can't spell.  

First, that was not a typo.  That was a spelling error.  It says nothing about
the difficulty of typing in a word just as I think it is spelled.  Although,
I have never stated or implied that no one misspells commands in a CLI.  If
you want *my* as yet unentered opinion, typos are *much* less common in short
(three letter) words than in longer words.  The same applies when you use
a CLI.  Notice that, as far as I've seen, I have'nt made *one* error in a word
of three letters or less.  Most CLI commands are between three and five letters
long.  Longer commands, when misspelled, have less of a chance of causing
destruction because the computer will not interpret it as anything.

   If you really believe you could type this, then type in the command
   names of all the files you *don't* want to delete without forgetting
   any or misspelling any, resulting in files you really wanted being
   deleted, you're living in a dream world.

Obviously you have no idea what I am talking about.  The 'select' command
brings up a full-screen directory listing (which scrolls up and down).  A
'highlight bar' goes up and down in response to the arrow keys, just as you 
would expect.  'Space' toggles a file selected or unselected.  'Enter'
submits the list of selected files to the next command.

   Also, the (del *.txt) type commands are only really useful in a
   file system where filenames are constrained to DOS-like conventions.
   If you have a real filing system, where documents have names like
   "Letter to Bill", "*.txt" doesn't mean very much.

Yes.  I believe we went over that already.  *.txt works in DOS because
it was made *for* DOS (UNIX applies as well).  I would not expect it to work
in System 7 any more than you would expect all the files in my pc to have
a pretty little icon associated with them.

   >The example *you* gave, however, is more than just slightly caterring to your
   >GUI point of view.  How does 'the first four columns' relate to any real
   >filing system?

   Some people want to do more with their computers than just play with 
   the file system.

Now, is that or is that not a cop-out?
It just so happens that all the computers I have ever seen use some sort
of file system.  Even on the Mac this is not transparent.  In DOS it
is wide open.  Either way, you're going to have to deal with it one way
or another.  BTW, that is about *all* you do when working on the CLI.  The
only way to escape it is to actually start up an application and do real work
(or play).

   >The system 'imposed upon us' by that evil thing DOS by nature has very quick
   >short-cuts and casts in it.  

   Quick?  Only because you insist that "the time spent learning a command
   doesn't count, only the time spent actually typing it in."  This is like
   measuring an astronaut's work days by those he spends in space, ignoring
   all the time he spends on the ground *training* to go into space.

I have never misspelled '*.*'.
It did not take me long to remember that * == any string of characters, or
none, and ? == one character.  the [abc1-3] thing took a little more time,
but I use it much less.  As long as your a space buff, think of it as
going from here to the Supermarket, where my normal computing takes me to the
Moon and back.

   It also assumes that you can type those commands acurately, the first
   time, every time.  Most people can't.  This has been shown time and time
   again.  Even people "showing off" their knowledge of UNIX and DOS commands
   in comp.sys.mac.advocacy have managed to get them wrong, time and time again.


   >How easy is it for you to launch a system-
   >intensive application and leave for lunch?

   Unless both hands are in a cast, very easy.

I was implying something like the stringed commands available in a CLI.
Browse back for an example, then tell me how to do it.  I would be quite
intrigued with your answer.

   >If you are not drugged or unconcious, you will most likely see the listing
   >of deleted files go up on your screen.  I know that I, as an 'experienced'
   >CLI user, read these as they come up so that I don't screw things up.  

   Lucky for you you have a ".edu" address.  If you had a job in the
   real world, you might find your boss asking you to work overtime.
   You might get tired, make mistakes... start to spell things like
   "syntax" as "syntaxt."  You see, no matter how many times you say,
   "but I never make mistakes," it isn't true.

That is why we have that miraculous 'unerase'.
What you don't seem to understand is that most of my computing time is not
spent typing things into a command line.  Most of it is spent using
applications.  It is just as easy to misspell something in Excel while
using DOS as it is to do the same on a Mac.
And don't make such statements as 'I'm in college so I don't ever stay up late
working on my computer.'  Your own rashness shines through.
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