HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: olson@mydual.uucp (Kirtland H. Olson)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Term Project Help
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:10:17 GMT
Reply-To: olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com
Organization: The Harvard Group, 01451-0667

I don't know of any hypertext standards, but some people would like to
see SGML-compliant hypertext readers.  (SGML .=. Standard Generalized
Markup Language)

Since kman will be a file browser, you might want to look at some
instances of that.  In the DOS world there are HyperRez, HyPlus, and
HyGlos from MaxThink (all available by ftp) and PC-Browse by Quicksoft
(shareware and widely available).

Looking at your example, I offer the following questions and comments:

1) You might want to let the file call take a parameter to go to a
specific location in the second file as--!!sh_help >>command_history
(Don't try >> as a passed parameter in DOS, though--let your code deal
with that and pass plain ASCII.)

2) Words as source markers are convenient for the programmer, but don't
carry ideas.  Your proposal lets me define words,  but how will you link
ideas for which there are no words? (Those ideas that need a phrase or a
paragraph.)

3) How does this system let the same word in different locations
reference different targets?

4) How many back jumps can I do?

5) If I arrive at a target that contains other jumps, how will I know
which jumps would be sensible given my prior trail?  In other words, can
kman maintain multiple threads and distinguish among them?  If so, can I
change threads?  If I change threads, can I tell which way I am going on
the new thread?

6) In seeking an application, you might consider constructing an an
ongoing hypertext archive of a newsgroup in which the user can relate
articles according to the user's ideas of usefully related concepts.  Or
maybe the man pages with their "see also" structure.  It's important to
use real text to try your ideas because it contains a multiplicity of
simultaneous relations that examples lack.

Finally, don't let the questions paralyze you.  It's a semester
project--pick a doable thing and get it done.

Regards,

      --Kirt




-- 
Kirtland H. Olson                     olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: keithf@Nimitz.mcs.kent.edu (Keith Fuller)
Subject: Term Project Help
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:45:10 GMT

Hello!

I am seeking to do a hypertext based term project for a UNIX system.

Is there some sort of utility I could convert to X-Windows?

Is there some sort of convention for which I could write my own utility?

Anyone have any ideas?

Below is my first attempt at a term project proposal,
but my instructor wants to know if there are some pre-existing standards.

Thanks!
Keith Fuller
keithf@mcs.kent.edu




	kman -- a hypertext based text file browser program.

format:
% kman filename

kman acts as a file browser except that it scans the file for special
character sequences to allow the user to jump to different parts of
the current file or to different files.

This utility is destined to revolutionize the way documentation is
written and will usher in the age of the paperless world.  Kman
will have an unprecidented environmental impact that will be remembered
throughout all history.

kman features the following:

- last three lines show available commands

- available commands are:
       q -- quit
{ctrl} j -- {page} down
{ctrl} k -- {page} up
       

       n -- select next hyperjump.  At any time there may be several choices
            on the screen for a hyperjump.  This command cycles through
            them and places the cursor on the one selected.

       z -- make the hyperjump

       b -- come back from a hyperspace jump to where you were before

The following example shows how kman processes hypertext:
<start example>

		UNIX file commands
        	------------------

UNIX is essentially a file system + a bunch of commands.  Even the 
user-interface, or the "shell", is nothing more than a command.
There are two popular shells, namely the original @@sh and the newer @@csh.
!!sh_help
!!csh_help

Here is what we can show you:
@@What are files, anyway
>>what_are_files
@@How to copy files
>>cp_files
@@Deleting files
>>rm_files

::what_are_files
Files are where you store your data between login sessions

::rm_files
Use rm .* * to get rid of all your files.  Try it now!

::cp_files
Type "man cp" at the % prompt for more info about copying files.

<End example>

What does this mean?  
@@ -- precedes a word that is offered as a hyperspace jump
!! -- corresponding hyperspace file to jump to
>> or << -- jump to label within file
:: -- precedes a label for a "local hyperspace jump"
From: sysadmin@lost.cojones.com ('Bart' Prentice)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: HyperRez ftp location
Date: 3 Oct 92 15:35:25 GMT
Organization: The Nullspace Science Foundation

ann@euclid.JPL.NASA.GOV (Ann Farny) writes:

> I recently read on the newsgroup that HyperRez for
> DOS/Windows was available via ftp from wustl.wuarchive.edu
> but this seems to be an unknown host.  

The correct FTP name is wuarchive.wustl.edu

Whoever posted the wrong name should be shot.  I would have to be initially
suspicious and wonder if the original poster even knew what he/she was
talking about.

sysadmin@lost.cojones.com or sysadmin#lost.cojones.com@514 (WWIVnet)
From: demoep@psilink.com (Ernest Perez)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: www and gopher
Date: 27 Sep 92 23:36:35 GMT
Organization: Access Information Assoc., Inc.
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

In his article, Charlie Duncan <charlie.duncan@execnet.com> writes...

>GVR>This sounds very much like WWW and (to a lesser extent) Gopher, except
>GVR>that those systems don't have the Microsoft help look and feel (in
>GVR>fact their user interfaces can be wildly different even on one
>GVR>machine, e.g. there are X and curses versions for UNIX).  There are
>GVR>also similarities with WAIS, a distributed database on the internet by
>GVR>Thinking Machines.  All these are freeware.
>
>       Could someone tell me more about what is WWW and what is 
>  Gopher?

I've dabbled in examining and using the two services above.  I'm not at 
all an expert in them, so I'll let someone more knowledgeable opine 
about them.  

For a fast, fun, look at GOPHER though, just telnet to...
          consultant.micro.umn.edu
and log in as "gopher".

In general, though, for all kinds of these Internet resource and 
information systems questions, I'd like to recommend that interested 
folks consider purchasing a brand-new and up-to-date paperback on 
Internet resources. (It's only been out for two weeks, so it's as up-to-
date as hardcopy can be.)  I am reviewing it for ONLINE Magazine, and 
I love it so far.

It is...

  Krol, Ed.  _The Whole INTERNET User's Guide and Catalog_. Sebastopol 
CA, O'Reilly & Associates, 1992.

Crammed full of info for novices and old hands alike.  Basic baby steps 
stuff, "What is the Internet?", how it works, etc.  Good chapters on 
TELNET and rlogin, FTP, email, newsgroups, finding email addresses.  
Full chapters on GOPHER, WWW, and WAIS.

Buy it, read it, and practically wherever you start from, you'll wind up 
with a heck of a jump in knowledge quotient.

Cheers,
Ernest
From: jdymond@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Jason Dymond)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Stuart Moulthrop's CHAOS
Date: 5 Oct 1992 14:25:55 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

I am interested in getting hold of a copy of Stuart Moulthrop's "CHAOS",
or any other hyperliterary works.  Has the above been published, and if
so, by whom (e-mail address ?). If not, does anyone have the author's
current e-mail address (I had <eifa307@utxvm.bitnet>, but mail here
bounces).

Thanks in advance

Jason

Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: jamie@csd.uwo.ca (J. Blustein)
Subject: Re: HyperRez ftp location
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 01:10:57 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.234332.11237@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>
ann@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov asked:
>I recently read on the newsgroup that HyperRez for
>DOS/Windows was available via ftp from wustl.wuarchive.edu
>but this seems to be an unknown host.  
>
>Does anyone know about this?  If they do, did I write down
>the wrong location?

I don't know if this is the site, but you should try:
wuarchive.wustl.edu  128.252.135.4  [-6]
-- 
James Blustein                                        `Did you say "knives"?'
<jamie@uwo.ca>                                        `*Rotating* knives, yes.'
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: fs@cs.scarolina.edu (Faisal Siddiqi)
Subject: Object oriented hypertext & interaction
Keywords: Object-oriented, hypertext
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Distribution: alt
Date:  4 Oct 92 01:55:58 GMT

I'm working on an object oriented enhancements to existing hypertext ideas 
for my MS thesis.

Here are my ideas in brief :

	- physical objects or phenomena which form the subjects of a 
	  hypertext can be treated as object *nodes* of the hypertext

	- these object nodes can have closely associated with them :
		- a textual description
		- a graphical description ( basically a picture)
		- a set of possible *operations* that can be performed
		  on the object represented by the object node
		- a logical position in the framework of the hypertext
	
	- when (which is all the time for me) one of the operations
	  mentioned above involves two objects, I call it an
	  "interaction" between the two objects.
	  In the same way that an object has an associated hypertext node, 
	  there is a node associated with each interaction as well.

	- an interaction node also has a place (and therefore a possible
	  sequence) in the hypertext.

	- an interaction can be authored into the hypertext as a node 

	- more interestingly perhaps, an interaction can be made to
	  happen as a result of a user request while the hypertext is
	  being explored (another form of annotation in a way).
	  I call this a User Directed Interaction


I am very interested in learning about any work that might have been done, 
or which might currently be going on along on these or related lines.

I understand there was recently a discussion about "Interaction in
hypertext", but I missed most of it. I wonder if anybody could tell me
what was covered there.

I would appreciate ANY and ALL responses to this.
I would also be glad to furnish more details if anybody in this newsgroup 
is interested.

Thanks a lot,

Faisal Siddiqi
fs@cs.scarolina.edu
Ph: (W) (803)777-5148
    (H) (803)796-3049
From: jdymond@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Jason Dymond)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Hypertext and Reading Theory
Date: 1 Oct 1992 00:20:24 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

I am working on a project looking at the development of hypeertext as a
medium for the *authoring* of literary works, and an analysis of the
implications of this for reading/literary theory.  I am interested in
hearing from anyone with interest in this, and particularly, about any
literature which has been specifically produced in and for the hypertext
medium - not just "books", ported into hypertext.

Thanks

JAson

Xref: sparky alt.hypertext:818 comp.sys.mac.hypercard:3688
From: neil@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Neil Green)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext,comp.sys.mac.hypercard
Subject: Lexicography and Hypertext (repeat request)
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:37:47 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

I wrote asking recently if people could send me any
references/information they might have concerning lexicography
(particularly bilingual) and hypertext 
e.g. any projects, theories etc
I'm not sure that my message got posted on USENET, so I am repeateing
my request.

This is an area I am pursuing for my PhD thesis and I would appreciate
any help (preferably by e-mail) anyone can give.

Thanks in advance.
--
Neil Green (neil@ccl.umist.ac.uk)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext,alt.sci.planetary,comp.databases.theory,comp.graphics.visualization,comp.infosystems,comp.infosystems.gis,comp.object,comp.sys.isis,comp.sys.super,or.general,pdx.general,sci.comp-aided,sci.environment
From: johng@oce.orst.edu (John A. Gregor)
Subject: Oregon job opportunity posted in misc.jobs.offered
Organization: Oregon State University, College of Oceanography
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:51:42 GMT

Hello,

I just wanted to let you know that I have just posted a job opening in
misc.jobs.offered that might be of interest to the readers of this
group.  The message-id is <BvB3v1.MKH@news.orst.edu> and the subject is
'Information Systems Developer, Corvallis Oregon'.

If, for some reason, you can't find the post, let me know and I'll mail
you a copy.

-JohnG

P.S. If you see this multiple times, my sincere apologies.  
-- 
         John A. Gregor			USmail:	College of Oceanography
 E-mail: johng@oce.orst.edu			Oregon State University
Voice #: +1 503 737-3022			Oceanography Admin Bldg. #104
  Fax #: +1 503 737-2064			Corvallis, OR  97331-5503
From: jsm@ibis.dsto.gov.au (James Marcus)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Goddess!
Date: 1 Oct 92 18:37:22 GMT

David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:

>Tag: James Marcus (jsm@ibis.dsto.gov.au (James Marcus))
> 

[ stuff deleted ]

> 
>Prove this. Provide names, dates, places, witnesses. Help us out
>here! I've heard THOUSANDS of such assertions, yet not one word
>is given to substanciate the claims. Why is that? Do Christians
>=WANT= these folks to get away with murder?
> 

[ more of my stuff deleted ]

> 
>I =HAVE READ= dozens of books written by Christians who made the
>claims. Not one has ANY evidence to back up the claims. The authors
>of these books claim that the eye-witnesses names are changed "to
>protect them," and the town name's are changed "to protect them,"
>and they do not give dates for the claimed events. I assert that
>this is the case because 1) the "witnesses" are liars and the author
>knows it, or 2) the author is lying, or 3) the author invented the
>"witnesses." In every case where law enforcement has investigated
>such claims, the claimants REFUSE to provide evidence. Why is that?
> 

[ deletions ]

> 
>Whatever you find I'd like to see. However, anything you come up
>with I probably already heard about, or read about. How about
>comming up with a real, live, breathing, eager-to-help WITNESS?
> 

I am about to start compiling some information that I think you will
find interesting.  This may take a few weeks, so please be patient.
I will post it as a separate article when it is complete.

> 
>Gerrr! The question is NOT THEOLOGICAL, DAMNIT! The woman you report
>on made a claim that a sacrifice (daughter, presumably) was to occur
>that night: SHE GOES TO CHURCH INSTEAD OF THE NEAREST POLICE
>DEPARTMENT? Does that make =ANY= sense to you?!?

Yes!

[ continued in your second post ]

James.
From: achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Atheism uber alles?
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:30:09 GMT
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center

In article <1992Sep29.193104.18644@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> jack@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (John Stump) writes:
>(Maybe this should be in talk.origins, but I can only subscribe to so many
> news groups)
>
>I don't see how anyone can ignore the vast amount of evidence science has
>produced, and yet believe in something with absolutely NO evidence!!!
>

Most people are incredibly ignorant, even in so-called developed, educated
societies.

>To me, this is a sign of a weak mind. I call it a sheep mentality, where a
>person will follow the masses without thinking. 
>

So do the christians, and they wear the label with pride. There are many 
references to their lord as shepherd, and they are the flock. It's just 
too much work to think for yourself.

>I hypothesize that in another century science will have produced so much
>undeniable evidence to our origins, as well as discount most of the bible, that
>the majority of people will be atheists, while a small, die-hard lot will
>cling to their unfounded beliefs. I only hope that I will still be alive when
>this happens. Or, at least I can witness it from Heaven. :-) (that was a joke).
>
>What do y'all think? Will atheism rule in the near future?
>

Sorry to say, no. The majority of humanity is ignorant, uneducated, or 
undereducated, and will never be exposed to or understand the evidence
of which you speak. IMO, there is more than enough available right now
to make religious myth obviously absurd.

Jeff Achenbach
From: jw67+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jordan M. Wolbrum)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: My getting blasted on Xtianity is stupid
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:36:13 GMT
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I was just reading through the responses to my previous post and decided
to risk further humiliation at the hands of those I would call peers.

A few things:

I recognize that the T-shirts are a joke, and I do not wish to impose my
sense of humor on anyone else.  But as part of my moral code, I attempt
to choose not to deliberately be offensive to anyone.  Even theists, who
I think are investing belief into garbage.

I know I am an atheist, yet I have no proof(lack of proof?).  How is my
position any more credible than that of my Christian neighbor?  I don't
know.  But it's what I feel, what I know.  If I can change one other
intellectual persons beliefs, or get them to consider what I feel, then
I have made a great acheivement for all atheists.  But who will consider
what I feel, if I don't consider what they feel?

The only response toward hostility is counter-hostility.  If it comes
down to Christians vs. Atheists, we will lose!  There are many more of
them than their are of us, and they can all scream just as loud as we
can.  Don't give up!  People listen, believe me.  You can't call
yourself educated if you don't at least listen.  For whoever said that
Christians will never see our beliefs as credible:  You're right for
some of them, and wrong for others.  I speak from the little experience
I have had.  For the ones who won't listen and won't think I have no
use.  They generally are non-thinkers.  For the ones who do listen,
maybe they'll say that Jordan's full of crap.  But they may also say "I
never thought about it that way."  I don't need to convert anyone to
atheism as long as they can accept me for who I am.  My friends can.  My
family can.

The issue of God vs. Non-God is similar to the issue of abortion.  There
will never be a true resolution until tangible proof exists.  

A word of hope to atheists everywhere:

There have always been doubters and non-believers.  There have not
always been Christians.  There always will be doubters and non-believers.

the lack of personal mail was and will again be appreciated.

                            thank you
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: robert@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Rob Karmolinski)
Subject: Re: GOD is EXISTENCE
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 09:05:12 GMT

>In article <1992Oct3.090132.7052@cs.ucla.edu> robert@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Rob Karmolinski) writes:

[ Proof of God's existence; exercise left to reader to link Bible with God. ]

kruegek@stein.u.washington.edu (Kirby Krueger) writes:

>Such logic!  I assume that most readers can see the fundamental flaws in
>this argument.  Take a parallel argument.  Say, for example, the existence
>of cupid, cupid being defined as the cause of people falling in love, and
>the only cause. (This is similar to the claim that god is defined as the
>creator of the universe in the above example.)

>Therefore, 1. Cupid causes people to fall in love. (by definition) 
>           2. Love exists. (By inspection)
>           3. Assume cupid does not exist.
>               4. Thus, people do not fall in love.
>               5. Love does not exist.
>           6. Thus, Cupid exists!

>Pretty horrendous logic, isn't it?

Actually, I see nothing wrong with the *logic*.  Yes, my argument does have
fundamental flaws, but logic is not one of them.  By your argument, Cupid does
indeed exist *as you defined Cupid*, because people do fall in love.  However,
your argument does *not* corroborate the actual existence of a flying cherub
with bow and arrow, ready to shoot people, come mid-February.

Similarly, with *my definition* of God, as the creator of the universe.

>				    Even assuming that the first example has
>some validity, then the god that exists is the cause of the universe, not
>necessarily anything more.  So the big bang might be it's god.  The next     
>paragraph does not follow at all, about this proving the bible.  All it
>proves is that the universe came into being (which I'm willing to accept),
>and names the cause as god.  Which basically accomplishes nothing ...

Yes, you are correct.  That was my point.  I'm sorry it was not clearer.
I was attempting to show that philosophical discussions concerning the
*existence* of God are irrelevant and pointless, as they do nothing to
corroborate religious scripture; even if you concede that God exists,
then where do you go from there?

Rob
From: mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: All Bases Covered
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:58:58 GMT
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.

In article <n0afbt@ofa123.fidonet.org> David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
>Tag: mathew (mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew))
> 
>A  list  of "satanic indicators" was sent by Ms Klein to  help  social
>workers.  Classic  signs and symptoms are said to include  an  unusual
>preoccupation  with  urine and faeces, fear of  ghosts  and  monsters,
>aggressive play, and the child being "clingy", reciting nursery rhymes
>with  indecent overtones, suffering from nightmares and  bed  wetting,
>preoccupation with "passing gas", using mouth to make "gas sounds" and
>wild laughter when the child or someone else "passes gas".

Gee, it sounds like Andrew Dice Clay.

--
In the midst of the word he was trying to say,|McCreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com
     In the midst of his laughter and glee,   |Me, speak for Compaq?  
He had softly and suddenly vanished away---   |Yeah, right.
     For the Snark *was* a Boojum, you see.   |#include <stddisclaimer.h>
From: mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Would you do ANYTHING God told you....?
Date: 24 Sep 92 10:31:05 GMT
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams) writes:
> The last time I read about somebody sacrificing his son was in England,
> about 40 years ago.  My memory is a bit shaky about this, but as I recall,
> the perpetrator was deemed to be insane, and was detained "at the Queen's 
> pleasure", i.e. was locked up indefinitely in the Asylum for the
> Criminally Insane at Broadmoor. The general tone of newspaper articles and
> letters was that sacrificing one's son was a horrible, cruel, immoral
> thing to do, as well as being illegal.

Just recently (last year or so) a Moslem father strangled his daughter to
save her from dating a heathen and assure her of her place in heaven.  He has
recently been found guilty of murder, I believe.


mathew
-- 
"When nothing's funny it gets easy to laugh 
 at the drop of a hat, or a bomb" -- DEVO
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: rolls@cis.umassd.edu (Frank Pinto)
Subject: Re: Cults
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:44:58 GMT

At least Jim Jones, Rev Moon and some others  brainwashed adults,
unlike some cults (Christianity, Muslims, etc.) which brainwashe
the most vulnerable of living animals, THE CHILDREEN.

Shame on them.........
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.origins