HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tenny@euclid.uucp (Nathan Tenny)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Red Eyed Tree Frogs
Date: 30 Dec 1992 07:39:34 GMT
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Oregon
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.uoregon.edu

In article <725515631.AA00000@therose.pdx.com> Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Honeycutt) writes:
>Anyone working with Red Eyed Tree Frogs out there?

Not yet, but I'd like to know all about those who are.

I'd like to get a tree frog project going eventually, but not until I'm a
little more stably settled (read: out of school) and have a little more time
and money (read: out of school).  Besides, I want to be *real* sure I know
what I'm doing with amphibians before messing with uncommon species---so
it's leopard frogs and White's for a few years yet.

How is the status of captive husbandry of red-eyes?  I've seen them on the
Glades list, but the text implied they were wild-caught.  (For that matter,
how are they doing in the wild?)

	NT
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: marianne@stevie.bsd.uchicago.edu (Marianne Guntow)
Subject: Iguanas for sale (?) Chicago
Reply-To: marianne@stevie.bsd.uchicago.edu (Marianne Guntow)
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:38:34 GMT

Three Iguanas Available in Chicago area

I currently have three iguanas. I would like one, two, or possibly all  
three to go to a good home. There are two females and one male. All three  
were in excellent health as of their last checkup (end of September) and  
haven't changed since then except to get bigger. (One of the females,  
though, is having difficulty with one of her front legs; I believe one of  
the others bit her. BTW: If anyone has suggestions for helping her out,  
please let me know. The leg is getting better but slowly.) They are  
approximately 1 year old and are 8-9 inches long (without tail). All three  
are fairly tame. I wouldn't say they like human contact but they're pretty  
mellow.

I would kind of like to sell these little guys for what I paid for them or  
so but its much more important to me that they go to a good home. So, we  
can negotiate. Make me an offer (including sincere promises that you know  
how and will take good care of them).

If all three iguanas go, then I've also got some iguana supplies that I'd  
like to sell:
4-4 foot (?) Vita-Lights
1-4 foot (?) really ugly shop-light that the Vita-Lights fit in
2-"Hot" rocks, one large, one small
Vitamins: Chirp and Cal-D-Tron (that's what my vet recommended)

Please send any inquiries to Marianne or call:
gun6@midway.uchicago.edu    312/643-7482 (please leave a message)

BTW: The reasons I am looking to find a new home for them...
1. There are three and they are getting quite large for my small  
apartment.
2. They fight with each other. I foresee no simple solution to this that I  
will be able to live with and I am concerned that they will hurt each  
other permanently if this continues.
3. I am having a certain amount of difficulty maintaining appropriate  
conditions for them. I don't control the heat in my apartment, etc. and  
they like to hang out in places they really shouldn't.
4. All these problems are, I am sure, surmountable but my life has changed  
quite a bit recently. It may sound callous but I'm no longer sure that I  
want to devote the time, energy, and money to caring for them. I think  
that there is probably someone out there who would dearly love to have  
these wonderful critters and who will be better able to care for them.
From: tenny@euclid.uucp (Nathan Tenny)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Red Eyed Tree Frogs
Date: 1 Jan 93 02:57:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: pith.1i0bv5INN7ul
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Oregon
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.uoregon.edu

In article <simonb.725759377@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU> simonb@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Simon Blomberg) writes:
>Forgive my ignorance, but _what_ are red-eyed tree frogs (Genus, species:

They're various _Hyperolius_ species, kind of delicate-looking and green,
with big red eyes.  I don't know a lot about them, except that they're
cool-looking, and I gather they're not doing so well in the wild.

The editorial column in _The Vivarium_ a few months back said that they used
to be available cheaply and in large numbers, that no one did much work with
them, and now they're "virtually unobtainable."  (Glades had a few of them
for $85 each last month, though.)

	NT
From: larry@angel.UUCP (Larry Tenbush)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Boa for Sale
Date: 22 Dec 92 06:11:50 GMT
Organization: Angel's Retrreat, San Antonio TX




I am posting this for someone, so DO NOT reply to me.

5 ft. Boa Male
with 55 gal tank
$250.00
call: Dave Hawkins
      210-945-9975
Please DO NOT reply to me.


-- 
WHOAMI: Larry "Bear" Tenbush 
  CITY: San Antonio, Texas  78230
 SMART: larry@angel.ucm.org
  BANG: ....!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!dptspd!ephsa.ucm.org!angel.ucm.org!larry
From: nathan@charles.ucdavis.edu (Nathan Rollins)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Cage flooring
Date: 27 Dec 92 05:31:09 GMT
Organization: Department of Music, UCDavis
Originator: nathan@charles.ucdavis.edu


 There's always been a lot of debate about what to use on the floor of
reptile cages; wood chips and sand and kitty-litter and corncobs all
seem to have the problem that the animal can ingest or inhale the particles
and thus injure itself. Some people use newspaper, but others say that the
ink is harmful and besides the looks leave something to be desired.
  I was wondering, how about using folded cloth for the bottom of cages?
Towels, for example. It would be warm, help disperse heat, absorbent, and
when the animal defecated or unrinaton on it, you could just pull it out and
wash it (the towel I mean) in the washing machine, like a cloth diaper.
 This would probably be only good for snakes, as lizards would get their 
claws caught in it and amphibians would get too dry. But with a little 
looking around you might even be able to find cloth or towels that looked
fairly "natural"...
  I'm trying it with my 4.5 foot Burmese... she seems to like it thus far.

 just an idea...

 Otter not Nathan

Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut)
Subject: Re: Gratuitous Kills
Followup-To: rec.pets.herp
Summary: My strength is much greater than yours.
Keywords: This article printed on 100% recycled electrons
Organization: Rocking Pig Enterprises
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:04:36 GMT

In article <s0499528.48.0@let.rug.nl> s0499528@let.rug.nl (R.
"Amsterdamned" Dijkhuis) writes:

>A friend of mine who has a rat snake has seen his snake do this. His 
>explanation, as I recall, was that the snake wasn't actually hungry, but 
>because the mouse was moving around the terrarium and got in the snake's 
>way, the snake killed it out of pure annoyance.

I don't think I buy this explanation... most snakes, especially
colubrids, may bite to defend themselves but would not go through the
motions of a kill unless it was to eat.  If not in food-mode, they
would probably go into 'I-can't-see-you mode' rather than constrict.
(Course, I don't have any hard data to back that up...)

>
>This snake also had this thing about white mice, BTW. He just didn't want to 
>eat them. Has anybody got any idea why?
>

Well, I can hardly say that I blame him... :-P

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/
                       /               
/'''   Kyle Wohlmut    -  'Heute back ich, morgen brau ich, und       
c-OO                   /   uebermorgen hol ich mir der Koenigin ihr      
   \   Rocking Pig     -   Kind.  Ach, wie gut dass niemand weiss,
  -     Enterprises    /   dass ich kyle@csli.stanford.EDU heiss.'    
                       -                                              
-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-
From: michael.ashe@synapse.org (Michael Ashe) 
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: HERPNET #
Date: 27 Dec 92 22:26:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: michael.ashe@synapse.org (Michael Ashe) 

Anybody know of any sort of 'Arach-Net' for spider types?  If anybody
knows of anyone with experience raising Theraphosa Leblondi or
Pamphobeteus Exul please let me know.
Thanx, mike.
                                                                        
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: rotheroe@convex.com (Dave Rotheroe)
Subject: Re: Cage flooring
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:22:46 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

>I get unprinted newsprint for short money at the local paper dealers.  If you can 
>find it get the unfilled kind since it's more absorbent and even cheaper.  The
>size I like is 36"x24".  It can be folded to fit most any cage.  I don't recall
>the exact price but I think I got 1500 sheets for about $50 last time.  This much
>lasts me close to a year.

>Newsprint is so quick and easy to replace, so easy to keep clean, and so cheap that
>other than being a little drab I can see no reason to use anything else.

excellent points.  another suggestion is to call up a paper company and find
out what they have laying around.  most paper distributors have small (to
them) amounts of paper that they want to get rid of.  for my 10 and 20 gallon
tanks, I have them cut the paper to fit the bottom of the cage.  I'll buy
500-1000 sheets, usually getting 2 or 3 out of each sheet.  they charge me
a small fraction of the paper's list price, and either cut it for free or
some nominal charge (like $5).  sure makes cage cleaning easy, and it doen't
look half bad either.

==================================================================8--<
Dave Rotheroe                rotheroe@convex.com              DoD#0045
CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX 75083-3851, (214) 497-4512
Death is a reward for being responsible.
From: tmohler+@cs.cmu.edu (Tim Mohler)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: The Makeup of A Snake's Housing...
Date: 1 Jan 93 21:24:53 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1993Jan1.023453.18349@siemens.com> aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:

>Any advice on finding a rodent breeder?  I can't find anything in the local YP.

Caveat: I know some snakes will not eat gerbils - you should test it on
a gerbil before raising them.

I don't know about rodent breeders, but since that snake is 7 ft, it will
eat largish rodents - gerbils at least, surely smaller rats, and 
probably a decent-sized rat.

I have raised mice and gerbils. I ditched the mice - they STANK. The
gerbils, though, do not stink. I don't know why that is. I have been
told that rats do not stink as badly as mice, but I have no personal
experience.

By stink, I mean you could smell the mice throughout most of the house - 
and I only had four adults.

The gerbils only smell if you put your face down into the cage.

Also, I have had interesting results breeding gerbils - I've gotten
albino, black with white spots, and normal-colored gerbils.

They breed about once every 5 weeks, so the turn-over time is pretty
quick.

They get decently large, too. if your burmese is anything like my
apartment-mate's burmese, it will eat 5 mice at a sitting, which can
get expensive buying - gerbils will fill it up faster.

My random thoughts,
Tim
From: tracer@carson.u.washington.edu (David P. Tracer)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Gratuitous Kills
Date: 24 Dec 92 06:29:03 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1hb6uuINN3q0@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> bell-peter@yale.edu (Peter Bell) writes:
>
>Actually, snakes have reasonably good vision, and a fair amount of forebrain
>devoted to handling it. 

Yes.  And as I posted previously, based on the density of rods & cones in
the eyes, it is thought that many snake species should be able to see color.

> In addtion, the boids (and several other families)
>have exquisite infrared sensitivity, which is coextensive with the visual 
>space maps in the brain in rattlesnakes, where the mapping has been looked 
>into.  I am not sure, but I believe that the infrared could tell the animal
>what color the prey was (all white versus all black) since the different
>colors of fur might well have slightly different heat radiative/absorbance 
>characteristics.  I don't think that corn snakes are ir sensitive, though....
>

Bodies (whether human or snake) act as "black-box" radiators with respect
to the IR spectrum - radiation is independent of color & only a function
of the heat gradient between the radiatiing surface and the external
environment.  Radiation/absorbance of light in the visible spectrum is of
course, color dependent though.

-David
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander)
Subject: Re: Cage flooring
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:34:27 GMT

In article <20592@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> nathan@charles.ucdavis.edu (Nathan Rollins) writes:
>
> There's always been a lot of debate about what to use on the floor of
>reptile cages; wood chips and sand and kitty-litter and corncobs all
>seem to have the problem that the animal can ingest or inhale the particles
>and thus injure itself. 

Yes.  I once opened a dead California king (not mine) that had been kept on 
kitty litter.  There was a chunk ~2 mm across in the top of the lung.  Cause
of death, IMHO.

>Some people use newspaper, but others say that the
>ink is harmful and besides the looks leave something to be desired.

Just an hour or so ago I was looking at Frederick Frye's recent 2 volume work
(_Diseases of Captive Reptiles_, or similar title).  He was down on everything
listed above, for just the reason Otter gave.  He liked paper (newspaper
or butcher's paper) and indoor/outdoor carpeting.  As I recall, he said that
printers ink had PCBs in them, but the PCBs had been discontinued.  So 
newspaper is OK even if it isn't very aesthetic.

I read somewhere, long ago, that it was the colored ink in newsprint that
was not real good for reptiles.  The black ink in newspapers never seemed 
to hurt my animals.  My cages were cleaned out whenever the water bowl was
spilled, so they never got very wet, though.  I still won't use colored pages
because most of them are so slick that they can't absorb much liquid.

>  I was wondering, how about using folded cloth for the bottom of cages?
>Towels, for example. It would be warm, help disperse heat, absorbent, and
>when the animal defecated or unrinaton on it, you could just pull it out and
>wash it (the towel I mean) in the washing machine, like a cloth diaper.
> This would probably be only good for snakes, as lizards would get their 
>claws caught in it and amphibians would get too dry. But with a little 
>looking around you might even be able to find cloth or towels that looked
>fairly "natural"...
>  I'm trying it with my 4.5 foot Burmese... she seems to like it thus far.
>
> Otter not Nathan

I'd be careful with cloth towels.  I've seen at least one account of a python
that ate a towel.  It had gotten rabbit or guinea pig smell on it, so the 
snake thought it was food.

Decent bath towels cost quite a bit.  I've seen indoor/outdoor carpet (green)
for around $3 per yard (length) off rolls 6 feet wide.  This was in both a
local farm supply store and a Des Moines lumber company.

Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu
Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.
From: tracer@carson.u.washington.edu (David P. Tracer)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Leapard geckoes
Date: 29 Dec 1992 22:10:02 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <C01FK7.2wt@news.cso.uiuc.edu> Igor Livshits <igorl@uiuc.edu> writes:
>
>concerned about him because it seems that he has trouble getting the skin
>off and that he does not eat it as he sheds.
>
>Could this be a sign of a vitamin deficiency?  He only eats crickets at
>this time as pinkies are too large for him.  I have tried keeping his
>tank a bit more humid, and I soak him to help with the skin.  However,
>I'd like to address the problem and not merely the symptoms.
>
>I'd appreciate any help and advice.

You may need to address only the symptoms, since the problem may simply be
the low humidity.  Rather than keeping his entire tank humid though, what
I would do is to take a small plastic container and cut a hole in it for
him to go in & out of.  Fill half the container with dampened sphagnum
moss.  That way you provide him/her with a humidity chamber which he can
use at will rather than being subjected to major changes in humidity in
his entire environment.  In most cases of shedding problems, I have seen
this solve the problem.

(On the other hand, you don't say whether you coat the crickets with any
sort of vitamin/mineral supplement, so  I wouldn't want to rule out a
deficiency of some sort - but I would try the above first).

-David

Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander)
Subject: Re: Gratuitous Kills
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:42:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.173642.21891@progress.com> gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras) writes:
>pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander) writes:
>
>
>>I don't know why, but I saw the same thing in my first Burmese python, a
>>rather picky feeder.  Give him a black rat, a hooded rat, and a white rat, 
>>and he'd take the black first, the hooded next, and then think about the 
>>white.  I can't see smell having anything to do with it, as they were out of
>>the same colony.  I wonder if the snake would still differentiate between
>>mice of different colors if the mice were dead and it was fed in a totally 
>>dark box.  Experiment.
>
>I've seen this also, and not just in pythons.  I suspect srongly that snakes
>can in fact tell the difference and that scent is the que.  (Deleted)

I'm not sure whether vision or scent is involved.  That's why I'd like to see
someone try feeding in darkness.  If there is still a preference, then 
something more than vision is involved.

>Am I correct in thinking that white rodents are man-made strains?  

IMHO, the original albino mice and rats were catured in the wild and bred,
just like amelanistic corn snakes.  I've heard that white mice were being
bred over 100 years ago, so I don't think they are proucts of human research 
with mutagens or radiation, the way some more recently discovered mutants are.

>If so, is it
>possible that along withdifferent pigmentation they also smell different.  If you
>want to hypothesize wildly, it may even be that snakes can actually detect the 
>pigmentation in the rodents skin.

Or possibly a minor change in the smell is another effect of albinism.  We
know that it produces changes in the brain, as well as making the fur white.

Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu
Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.

Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander)
Subject: Re: The Makeup of A Snake's Housing...
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:10:52 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.200038.26545@siemens.com> aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
>>Tell he seems to like it. But most of the Snake-enthusaists that I have met
>>Seem to think that an Aquariums are poor and Cages are better... Is this true?
>
>The usual concern is for ventilation.

And heat loss; all the warm air goes stright up through those terrible nose
abrading commercial screen wire tops.  

And snakes feel terribly exposed with all that glass putting them in plain 
view.  But with a pegboard top, newspaper on the floor, a hiding box, and 
cardboard around the back and sides, aquariums aren't too bad for snakes up 
to around four feet long.

Aquariums larger than a 20 gallon long aquarium are getting too tall, too 
narrow, and too breakable.  I don't know how the prices compare.  IMHO, if 
you want a cage with more than 3 square feet of floor, you don't want an 
aquarium.  You want a wooden or fiberglass cage.

Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu
Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.

Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: Igor Livshits <igorl@uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Leopard geckoes
X-Xxdate: Tue, 29 Dec 92 20:48:53 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d16
Organization: NCSA
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:49:07 GMT
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A76615D5C70214C6@spiff.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

Oops, sorry about the typo in the Subject: line.

Should be Leopard.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: mhall@netcom.com (Michael Hall)
Subject: Uromastyx
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:40:52 GMT

Regarding Uromastyx (spiny-tailed agamid), does anyone have suggestions
for terrarium-mates?  I don't have this beasty yet, but I'm thinking
about setting up a terriarum and then purchasing one or two and possibly
one or two other species of reptiles or amphibians.

Since I'm an amphibian person, I was really hoping for some sort of
desert amphibian to toss in with Uromastyx.  However, the books
recommend damp sand/soil for African gray foam-nest building treefrogs
and spadefoot toads, whereas Uromastyx likes it dry, dry, dry and hot,
hot, hot.  (I live in Palo Alto, in the San Francisco Bay Area, and
it's usually dry and mild outside and in my apartment, so I should be
able to give Uromastyx dry and hot conditions in its terrarium.)  The
only other desert amphibian that springs to mind is the Australian
water-holding frog.  Besides, I'd like to have an "authentic"
terrarium, and I don't think the ranges or habitats of Uromastyx and
the African gray treefrogs overlap and the others are from completely
different continents.

If amphibians won't do, then how about some other reptile?  The books
caution that Uromastyx are aggressive towards others of the same species,
but don't you think that a male and female would be okay in a relatively
large (55 gallon long) terrarium?  How do you tell the difference between
male and female?  What about other species?  Would other agamids trigger
territorial problems?  What are some species that can tolerate Uromastyx'
hellish habitat and overlap in its range (subspecies in northern Africa
and southwestern Asia)?  Leopard geckos were my first thought, but they
too require moist sand/soil.

How about plants?  Cacti and succulents, obviously.  But I'd like to
have plants that are edible (i.e., non-toxic) for Uromastyx but
unappealing (except in a pinch) for Uromastyx to chomp on.  And I'd
prefer that the plant species come from Uromastyx' natural range.

There will be a heating pad underneath, and spot lights and uv lights
sunning rocks above, with a fairly deep sand substrate.  Most books
recommend using clay pottery pipes places diagonally to provide burrows,
but it sounds like Uromastyx simply digs into the sand in its native
habitat, so couldn't I just let it do its thing?

Thanks for any ideas...

-- 
Michael Hall   \ 
personal account\ I'm an amphibian person dammit, not a reptile person.
mhall@netcom.com \
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: drk@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Koehler)
Subject: Source for corn (or king) snakes in S.F. Bay Area?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 04:51:41 GMT


Hello,

I'm looking for a reputable source for a corn or king snake in the
S.F. Bay Area.  I'm aware of the East Bay Vivarium in Berkeley, but
it's a rather long drive for me.  I bought my corn snake there, but
it has suddenly died for no reason that I'm able to determine  :-(
I don't hold this against them of course, but I'd like to hear about
any sources in the Peninsula or South Bay area, which are closer for
me.  Thanks in advance for any information.

-- David

Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp