HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hasse@solace.hsh.se (Hans Holmberg)
Subject: Re: Last time on this one
Organization: Solace Computer Club, Sundsvall, Sweden
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 00:59:05 MET

In <1iojg0INNjna@life.ai.mit.edu> dmb@case.ai.mit.edu (David Baggett) writes:

>In article <1iobpvINN79q@golem.wcc.govt.nz> wells_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>>> OS/2 2.x?  NeXTstep '486 (when it comes out)?
>>
>>And what are the minimum system requirements for that!?  How much RAM
>>does it Need!?

>A losing argument.  No one complains that the ST's TOS requires more
>than 4K of RAM, but in 1978 it would have been a real problem.
>Likewise, one or two megs is no big deal now that SIMM prices are so
>low.  You will sound sillier with every passing month.

>>And doesn't NEED a Hard Drive to run!!  

>Big deal.  Get a hard drive anyway.  They're cheap.

>>OS/2 and windows are HUGE

>Huge by 1985 (ST creation date) standards, maybe.  Not by "real OS"
>standards.  You really have to try using a real OS sometime before you
>pass judgement on these things.

>>and VERY expensive

>That's a GOOD one.  $50 is *real* tough to manage for an OS, yeah.

Yes, that's for the software! But what is the cost for the hardware
requirements? The sodtware/hardware priceratio has been decreasing steadily
for the last years for DOS-machines (IBM-clones), but it's still a bit to high
for me or for the general user IMHO.

>>the ST's operating system
>>comes built in - you don't have to pay for it!

>Right, and consequently you have to pay $75 to upgrade the OS.  That
>is, every 3 years when they fix the pending 100 bugs in TOS.

Come on now! Don't tell me there is no bugs in Windows or OS/2? I have used
Windows 3.1, and what is bugging me is when the program-manager crashes
everything else crashes! You are left with a nice, clean desktop with no
icons or windows! Great... As for OS/2 which I have used very little, it has
some bugs too, but is more stable than Windows in my experience. MS/DOS I won't
even discuss.. :)

>>MS-Doze is the standard on IBM clones, and it is VERY under-productive!

>What, exactly, do you DO with your ST that would be so much more
>unproductively done on a PC?  And in terms of calls, TOS is more
>minimal than DOS is.  And there IS no CLI for the ST, as far as Atari
>is concerned.  Only the (snicker) GEM desktop.

Oh, so the GEM desktop is no good as GUI you mean? I find it very nice myself.
It's not cluttered with loads of strange stuff that doesn't belong there,
and btw the filemanager under windows is a joke. I haven't come across anything
as effective and easy to use as the "filemanager" that GEM have. BUT: GEM is
a bit outdated yes, but it's a perfectly good GUI as any.

>Dave Baggett
>--
>dmb@ai.mit.edu           MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory                  
/Hasse
-- 
/     email: hasse@solace.hsh.se, irc: Knightman, mud: Kniggit@VikingMud      \
\     snail-mail: Hans Holmberg, Sommarvagen 5, 854 67 Sundsvall, Sweden      /
/                  phone: +46 60 569169, fax: +46 60 569266                   \
\          "In a crazy world a sane person would appear to be crazy."         /
From: csullogg@cc4.crl.aecl.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Last time on this one
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:42:57 GMT
Organization: AECL RESEARCH

I intentionally was abusive to Darek to show him what it was
like to receive an abusive post. Hey netters, I have been posting
on this net longer than most of you and I have provided tons
of info and guidance to many, many netters. I make no apology
for my posting about Darek. It was intentional and I would
do it again. No apologies.

As for Darek being level headed and right, that's a crock. Read
my previous post describing how I am right in my assessment
of upgrading an Atari vs a PC. Darek is making his comments in
light of today's environment; not with the historical picture
in mind.

Why do you think he was an Atari enthusiast at one time? Could
it be the Atari had a user freindly operating system and a great
price when the alternative was an XT with DOS 2? Darek is
way off base in his arguments because it focuses on today's
market. Remember, I was referring to the last 7 years of the
market place.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu)
Subject: Re: MiNT and MINIX file system
Keywords: MINIX, MiNT, file, system
Organization: SAR Systems Development & Processing, JPL
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 08:52:43 GMT

In article <1i8gc1INNqb5@tamsun.tamu.edu> lehmann@cs.tamu.edu (Mark A Lehmann) writes:
>Well I finally installed the MiNT distribution kit.  I had to do it 

I haven't looked at this kit so I can't address any of its specifics...
>
>My questions are:
>
>   What do I do to prevent TOS writing onto the MINIX file system when
>MiNT is not active?

I don't think you need to worry about this. Usually a Minix formatted
filesystem will have a valid TOS boot block, with the FAT configured to
indicate 0 sectors free, thus preventing you from writing anything to it.

>   I am supposed to be able to make large file names with MiNT and MINIX?
>I could'nt find a UNIX like program that would let me have more than the
>TOS sized file names.  When I did "touch thisisamintfile" the system locked
>up.  No error messages.  Maybe the program could be slow, but I waited about
>10 minutes for it to complete.  I thought that "touch" would be extremely 
>fast.

The programs need to have been written correctly in the first place, i.e.,
allow for file names longer than 13 characters. If you have a program that only
allocates 14 bytes for filenames (as most TOS programs do) and the directory
routines return a filename much longer than this, you're bound to corrupt
your memory. Depending on whether the program stored the name in a local or
a global/static variable, you could trash the program's stack or other data
areas. If the stack is trashed, the sort of lockup you observed is not unusual.
>
>   Use the ICDFMT.PRG partition program, what should I set in the "TYPE"
>field.  I know that in real MINIX I should somehow make the partition
>unavailable to TOS only.  How do I make a partition MiNT accessable and
>not TOS accessable?

The minixfs.doc file says the partition type must be GEM, therefore, you
cannot make the partition hidden to TOS.
-- 
  -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA

There's a narrow border between genius and insanity, but I'm a dual citizen.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
Subject: Re: modem?! (WANTED!!!)
Reply-To: davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
Organization: Health Computer Sciences, U of MN, Mpls
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:54:06 GMT

In article <1iv20tINN7m5@ub.d.umn.edu>, awest@ub.d.umn.edu (The Piano Man) writes:
>I was wondering where would be the best place to find an inexpensive modem
>for my 1040ST.  I want to use it as a terminal to the minicomputer at my
>university.  Anyone out there have one to sell?

Look for a V.32 9600 bps modem.  MISCO sells them for about $370,
and I'm fairly sure you can get them cheaper by looking through an issue of
Computer Shopper or even a local 'free' paper.  A 2400 bps modem should cost
you less than $100 brand new.

>Also, I would like some software that my five year old would
>enjoy...(educational and/or entertainment).

There are some excellant shareware programs available on atari.archive in the
../Games/Kids-games directory.  My 2 year old enjoys sitting with me at the
computer and going through the Knowledge Vine's "House" program (kv_house.zoo).
Dorothy Brumleve's "Potato" program (potato.zoo) allows you to create a
figure from a variety of parts, similar to Mr. Potatohead.  The Knowledge Vine
folks used to have a BBS where you could get programs.  You might want to try
there as well.

If you don't have Internet access, send me some e-mail and we can talk about
getting you copies of the programs I have at home (all the stuff on
atari.archive plus other bits I've pulled from GEnie, etc.).  Most of it is in
our user group's disk library.

-- David Paschall-Zimbel
From: piet@cs.ruu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Mark Johnson C Compiler
Date: 6 Jan 93 09:29:31 GMT
Reply-To: piet@cs.ruu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Utrecht University, The Netherlands

>>>>> afonseca@terapin.com (Alberto Fonseca) (AF) writes:


AF> Hi there.. I was wondering if anyone out there is familiar with Mark
AF> Johnson C, shareware compiler for the ST.  I think the latest version
AF> was 2.0, but I'm not sure.. The file I have is MJCV20.LZH.  Well if
AF> anyone uses this, or has a later version, please mail me.  Or if you
AF> know of a more complete C compiler.. I tried GNU C, but it takes up too
AF> much room, I didn't have the docs, and seems much more complicated for
AF> someone trying to learn C.

I wouldn't recommend it. It is incomplete, and buggy. Better get the
Sozobon compiler if you don't have enough memory gor GCC. It is free.
-- 
Piet* van Oostrum, Dept of Computer Science, Utrecht University,
Padualaan 14, P.O. Box 80.089, 3508 TB Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Telephone: +31 30 531806   Uucp:   uunet!mcsun!ruuinf!piet
Telefax:   +31 30 513791   Internet:  piet@cs.ruu.nl   (*`Pete')
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: wallmann@backus.pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Natuerlich!)
Subject: Re: RFD: What to do with comp.binaries.atari.st/comp.sources.atari.st?
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 14:54:14 GMT
Organization: MSD software vault #9 @THD

In article <hjv.726673126@groucho.phil.ruu.nl> hjv@phil.ruu.nl (Hendrik Jan Veenstra) writes:
>Probably the sources-newsgroup can be deleted too -- the occasional sources
>that are made available could be sent to c.s.a.st or ...tech  Would
>raise the S/N level in c.s.a.st at least...
>And now we're at it: how about a group comp.sys.atari.flames ???  So we
>can get back to the regular interesting stuff in c.s.a.st...
Agreed! 
This way if I feel like it I can read there and get into a few flamewars
if I don't feel like it i stay safe and undisturbed in c.s.a.st.misc
or some such. Except that I'd rather would like it to be called "advocacy".

I am REALLY sick of the continous whining here. (read previous posting)

Nat!
-- 
 -----   Email: wallmann@backus.pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de  -----
               "Bang that bit that doesn't bang"   
                  VfL Bochum:  "Unabsteigbar"
From: ue@nathan.do.open.de (Udo Erdelhoff)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization: cyberspace
Subject: Re: Archiver wars
	<1993Jan2.181513.4659@csi.uottawa.ca>
Reply-To: ue@nathan.do.open.de
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.10 Rev. Dec  7 1992
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1993 15:14:14 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In <1993Jan2.181513.4659@csi.uottawa.ca>, Christopher Browne writes:

Hi,

>I never use it for anything other than file extraction, so I don't
>know all of the inter-version compatibility features.  
I'm using a little bit more, I do all my archiving stuff with LHArc.
I'm connected to several German file networks for the atari and we do
not have any problems with incompatible files. The traffic is a little
bigger than c.[bs].a.s, almost everything is packed with lzh. No problems
here...

[thought: compatibility mode]
>Is lharc an exception to this rule?  
No, just add -o to the command line to create old archives. But I don't see
any sense in it: If your 20 year old TV set is broken, there is almost no
chance to get any replacement parts. Now imagine you would go out and tell
all company producing TV sets: "Hey, I want you to produce my 20 year old
TV set so I can get replacement parts!". Thats nonsens, isn't it. You will
have to buy a new one. 
On the other hand, your years-old LHArc version is uncapable to unpack 
archives created by newer versions. And you go out say "Hey, I want you to
use the old compression method". A new LHArc version is available for free
(if not, drop me a mail. I'll send it to you. This applies to everybody out
there with a useable address [I do hate !-adresses])...

>- Lharc
>There's lots of work going into maintaining/improving Lharc, but
>unfortunately, it's all quite jumbled, and it's almost impossible to
>guarantee that you've got a compatible version.  It's fairly fast, but
>that's because it gets hacked on a lot, which makes it less
>trustworthy.
That is -excuse me- complete nonsense. The current LHArc 2.01l package
is all you need. [SHOUTING ON] IF ANYBODY DISCOVERS AN ARCHIVE S/HE THINKS
IS "INCOMPATIBLE", SEND A MAIL TO ME. [SHOUTING OFF] I'll show you that this
is not true. 

>- ARC 
>It's occasionally needed for compatibility with OLD archives.
>Unfortunately, it's fairly slow, doesn't compress nearly as well as
>the competition, and the support for subdirectories is a little
>spotty.
Hmm, how whould you define the support for subdirectories in zoo? Ever
tried to create a zoo archive concerning a big directory tree under
plain tos (no shell, no external programs, just zoo.ttp?) GRIN
/s/

-- 
Udo Erdelhoff                ue@nathan.do.open.de                udo@iml.fhg.de 

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: csullogg@cc4.crl.aecl.ca
Subject: GCR on large screen
Organization: AECL RESEARCH
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:44:40 GMT

I use GCR on both a TT with a TTm195 (1280x960) and
on a Mega4 with a REFLEX graphics card (1024x496 on
an SM124 monitor). The REFLEX will not work in Mac
mode at 800x600 (I think that's the rez) because of
a GCR software bug; not because of the REFLEX card
(at least that's what Titan told me).

GCR will not run on the TT's internal SCSI drive
(dave promised an upgrade from 3.0 almost two
years ago) so I run it from a SyQuest 88 meg that
is attached to the TT. I have never been able to
read/write Mac disks on the TT but have had no
problem on the Mega (or a 1040 for that matter).

For those with an SLM605, try to contact Fearn
and Music in Stuttgart Germany (if it is still
in business) and get the SLM Init that lets you
print to the SLM605 from MacWare (you'll need
the MacPrint HP driver).
From: Peter_Missel@k.maus.de (Peter Missel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Flaky mouse
Date: 6 Jan 93 17:05:00 GMT
Organization: MausNet (Mitglied im IN e.V.)
X-Gateway: MausGate/News 1.16/hb

s>for hours (or sometimes just minutes) and then , badabing badaboom, every
s>direction is reversed, up is down, down is up, left is.... well you get the
s>idea. The only way to fix this is to save what I'm doing and cold start it.
s>
s> Could this just be my mouse or is it something inside my box?

Hm, this virus has been alive for a very long time now...

THIS IS A VIRUS! Try to get rid of it.
From: ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Christopher Mauritz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: A letter to Dave Baggett
Date: 6 Jan 93 07:33:51 GMT
Organization: Ritz International, Inc. -- Import/Export Consultants
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Michael Olin (molin@ptb.cl.msu.edu) wrote:
OS/2> dmb@case.ai.mit.edu (David Baggett) writes:
OS/2> 
OS/2> >Now we're talking about insecure Atari owners who feel it necessary to
OS/2> >typecast anyone who buys an 80x86 machine, simply because it runs DOS.

Yup.

OS/2> It comes from experience.  I've played with a LOT of different machines
OS/2> in my day.  (Happens that I sell computers for a living...)  From VIC 20
OS/2> to 64 to AMiga, from 400 to 800 to XE to ST and TT, from Mac at several
OS/2> levels and from XT to current dinosaur.  ANd it's a simple choice for
OS/2> me:  I get the most productivity in the least time with my ST.  And facts
OS/2> are facts.  You go ahead and buy your $899 '486 with monitor. 

You must be joking.  Any 486 running a modern OS (not DOS) will blow
the socks off an ST.  I paid $49 for OS/2 and it does things on my
"dinosaur" that are simply impossible on an ST.  I can honestly say
that if I still had my ST it would probably spend 99% of its time
as a terminal (Uniterm is still the best damn terminal emulator around)
attached to one of the many free serial ports on my 486.  I can run
all of my DOS/Windows and OS/2 software (simultaneously) and if I reboot,
I can run unix and X windows.  Also, there is simply no comparison when
you look at the available software library.  There are thousands of
professional developers producing quality software, not to mention 
many quality shareware and freeware programs for the Intel-based
boxes and this is growing rapidly.  Compare that to the ever-shrinking
handful of people that are willing to roll the dice with Atari.  Your
software options are SHRINKING, not growing and this will get to be
more of an acute problem as more developers and users jump ship.

OS/2> WOn't
OS/2> offend me any at all if you find yourself headed for a service station
OS/2> in the VERY NEAR FUTURE.  When you buy cheap, you get cheap.  Simple as
OS/2> that.

This is coming from someone who bought an Atari computer???  Hehe, this
is great .signature material folks!

Regards,

Chris

--
Christopher Mauritz                 | My views reflect those of my
ritz@ritz.mordor.com                | company since I own the company.
{backbone}!rutgers!spcvxb!ritz!ritz | Ritz International, Inc.
OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2  | Import/Export Consultants
From: wenzel@marsu.tynet.sub.org (Markus Wenzel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization: Palumbian Networks Ltd.
Subject: Re: GNU SED v1.13 ported to Atari
Reply-To: wenzel@marsu.tynet.sub.org
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.04 Rev. Sep  5 1992
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 12:35:36 MET

In <1993Jan2.053420.3932@tdb.uu.se>, Daniel Eriksson writes:
> The port was made with GCC 2.3.1 PL1 and MiNTlibs PL25 and was
> very straightforward. I haven't had the opportunity to test all its
> functions, but the ones I've tested works as they were intended. I'm
> not sure how well the port works under plain TOS since I'm always
> running MiNT (but I can't really see any point in running it from
> plain TOS anyway :-). I also tried to compile SED with -mbaserel
> and -mpcrel, but somehow I couldn't get sed to run that way. It
> compiled and linked OK, but the executable only gave me a bus-error.
> It's probably some awfully silly thing that I'm doing wrong. I was
> under the impression that compiling with -mbaserel and -mpcrel would
> TRY to create a text-segment without absolute addresses. Am I missing
> something out?
Are you sure you linked with libs that were also compiled with -mbaserel?
I compiled tcsh 6.00 and make 3.62 that way and it works just fine.

Regards, Markus.

-- 
/dev                Markus Wenzel, University of Stuttgart
/usr/spool/mail     wenzel@marsu.tynet.sub.org / @rus.uni-stuttgart.de
~/.ircrc/nick       Marsu

### check this out with users you don't like:
cat >> ~luser/.cshrc
alias vi 'rm \!*;unalias vi;grep -v BoZo ~/.cshrc > ~/.z;mv -f ~/.z ~/.cshrc'
^D

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: klassa@aurs01.UUCP (John M. Klassa)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: oxyd -- what's up?
Keywords: oxyd, huh?
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:41:11 GMT
Reply-To: klassa@aurxcg.aur.alcatel.com.UUCP (John M. Klassa)
Organization: Alcatel Network Systems, Raleigh NC

Howdy ST Gamers...

I downloaded oxyd.lzh over the weekend & can't get it to do a whole lot.
It throws up screen 1, then this little propellor/flower-looking thing
drops down on my little icon (a cannonball, it looks like) and smashes
it all to hell.  When I try to move (via the mouse), my icon moves a
little bit, then gets smashed by the propellor thing anyway.  I die
almost instantaneously, three times in a row, then the game ends.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!
John

 o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
 o                             John M. Klassa                            o
 o    Alcatel Network Systems, Inc. --- Raleigh, NC --- (919) 850-1246   o
 o      Email: klassa%aurfs1.aur.alcatel.com@rockdal.aud.alcatel.com     o
 o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: pegram@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Robert B. Pegram)
Subject: Re: TCP/IP for the ST and LAN Server
Originator: pegram@griffin.emba.uvm.edu
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:21:03 GMT

From article <1992Dec31.212754.1@seb.se>, by s19184@seb.se (Michael Evans):
> In article <1992Dec30.175909.2268@zooid.guild.org>, kovarski@zooid.guild.org (Mark Kovarski) writes:
>> 
>> Has anyone out here experiemented with TCP/IP for the Atari ST. I remember
>> seeing a file on a german FTP site that was called, I believe, TCP_IP.LZH.
>> How does it implement TCP/IP? Is it done via the RS-232 port? What I want
>> to eventually do is to network my PCs with the Atari that I have.
> 
> I have been thinking about the same thing. I know there are Ethernet 
> cards for various ST-models in Germany, but I think that most of them 
> are for Megas (ie expansion bus machines).
> 
> The thought that struck me the other day (it did not hurt ;-) was that 
> there are many "pocket" LAN adapters available for portable PCs. These 
> plug onto the parallel port and supply a Token Ring or Ethernet 
> (Thinwire or 10BaseT) connection.

Not workable because the bidirectional parallel port commo is entirely
different.  You would do better to look to the Mac ethernet boxes that
can be put on the SCSI bus (assuming you have an ACSI<->SCSI Host
Adaptor - but why bother with a network without one?)

> Is this anything more than an old man's wild ideas?

No, I think that with the Falcon's SCSI bus, the Mac ethernet box
makers might be persuaded to make the necessary software available for
all STs.  Here's hoping.

Bob Pegram
> 
> /Mike
> -- 
> Michael Evans    Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken (S-E-Banken)
> SEB Data R                   Telephone: +46-8-639 33 70
> S-106 40  Stockholm                Fax: +46-8-639 37 62
> Sweden                        Internet: mike@seb.se
-- 
pegram@emba.uvm.edu
	or
..!uvm-gen!pegram
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: hohmuth@freia.sax.de (Michael Hohmuth)
Subject: Re: Editor???
Keywords: Editor
Reply-To: hohmuth@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, TU Dresden, Germany
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:14:14 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.142811.20499@fwi.uva.nl>, storm@fwi.uva.nl (Richard G.C. Storm (I89)) writes:

> I'm currently looking for a good editor for my atari.

There are a few good ones around in the Shareware market.
Look for QED, 7Up, xEdit.

Michael
-- 
Internet: hohmuth@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs)
Subject: GCC 2.3.3: I'm only mostly crazy
Summary: Suppose I wanted to compile it...
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:21:02 GMT

I have obtained the 2.3.3 distribution of GCC sources (all 18+ MB....).
Now I really only wanted this because the source is so often recommended
as the best documentation, but suppose I wanted to compile it?  Suppose,
for the sake of psychopathology, that I had a Mega 4 ST with a recent 
version of MiNT, lots and lots of disk, and some flavor of GCC 2.2 already
running.  How would I proceed from there?

                                       Steve     saj@chinet.chi.il.us