HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Glaring bloopen in Once u
Date: 23 Jan 93 18:32:00 GMT
Reply-To: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Organization: Almac BBS Ltd. +44 (0)324 665371

GN..I noticed a lovely error/blooper in OUAT last night on CH4.
GN..In the Scene when Leo McKern is writing on the black bord thee style of
GN..handwriting changes between close-up and long shots.  I particularly notice
GN..way the 'F' was drawn.

No entirely surprising. Remember, Leo McKern took a nervous breakdown as
a result of filming this episode and a stand-in had to be used for some
portions of the filming, only finishing it off when McKern returned after
about three days.

/\/\ | |< |.                                     mike.dickson@almac.co.uk
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . If you want it done right, forget Microsoft.
From: wilson@eola.cs.ucf.edu (tom wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Fallout
Date: 25 Jan 1993 02:28:44 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Unfortunately, I've only seen a couple of eps (The Girl Who Was Death and
A Change of Mind) before seeing Once Upon a Time and Fallout. I have a basic
understanding of the show from some e-mail explanations, but Fallout leaves
me somewhat confused. I expect that it was supposed to be that way given how
the others went. I won't give anything away since I think it is being shown
in the UK (I saw it on Sci-Fi here in the US). I hope they re-run it again
starting next week.

I await the discussion from others as to what the implications of the ending
are.

Tom
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: nelson@desktop.nsc.com (Taed Nelson)
Subject: Re: Number *Six*
Organization: Applications Technology, National Semiconductor (Santa Clara CA USA)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:32:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.155713.3105@maths.tcd.ie>, marko@maths.tcd.ie (mark o'neill) writes:
> 
>   Here's a little something I noticed while looking through a psychology book
> this morning. I don't know about you, but I've never thought about why the 
> prisoner is number *six* and not some other number.    

We are told why he is given the number "six".  The first Number Two says, "Oh,
  six and one-half dozen of another."

> I was reading about Arthur Asch's experiments on conformity. These
  experiments are classics of their kind and so it's quite possible that if
  Patrick McGoohan was researching the psychology of conformity he might have
  come accross them.

This experiment was published in 1956, so that's completely possible.
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Re: What's different about alternative "Chimes"?
Keywords: dgdfgdc
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:19:37 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <C1J380.LJx@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jasstev@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (stevens jason) writes:
>  I have not yet managed to see the 'alternative' version of the Chimes of 
>  Big Ben.
>  Is there anybody out there who can enlighten me to the new material,
>  or the 'alternativeness' of the episode?
>  I seen the other version anyway, so you wont be spoiling much!!!

If this isn't in the FAQ, it should be.

The major difference (besides the theme music) is the closing credits.
After the pennyfarthing bike is constructed, its wheels spin.  The small
one turns into the Earth, and the large one turns into "space" (the galaxy?
the universe?)  The space then encompasses the globe, and the camera
zooms in on the spinning Earth.  At the end, up from the globe comes a 
large red sign that says: "POP".  It fills the screen in large letters.
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: nsimms@nyx.cs.du.edu (Norwin Simms)
Subject: Re: McGoohan's views vs. my own
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 11:58:28 GMT

>#3 is Power, #2 is Authority.

From the context, I think you are referring to the Butler as No.3, but 
where do you get this from? I don't remember seeing it at any stage.
And what about the Supervisor - could he not represent power? After all, he
was the all-seeing, and therefore all-knowing, and it was it not he who
controlled Rover?
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: jasstev@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (stevens jason)
Subject: Re: Fallout
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:58:20 GMT

wilson@eola.cs.ucf.edu (tom wilson) writes:

>Unfortunately, I've only seen a couple of eps (The Girl Who Was Death and
>A Change of Mind) before seeing Once Upon a Time and Fallout. I have a basic
>understanding of the show from some e-mail explanations, but Fallout leaves
>me somewhat confused. I expect that it was supposed to be that way given how
>the others went. I won't give anything away since I think it is being shown
>in the UK (I saw it on Sci-Fi here in the US). I hope they re-run it again
>starting next week.

>I await the discussion from others as to what the implications of the ending
>are.

  I was always fascinated by NO.6's killing spree to the Beatles "All you
  Need is Love"...to me, it symbolizes that although he is about to 
  escape from the village by performing the ultimate act of aggression, the
  Village has finally broken him by forcing him to strike out as a last  
  attempt for freedom.

  Otherwise the only comment I shall make is that McGoohan must have been
  on acid the weekend he wrote the episode....

  Jason.
From: wcl@risc.sps.mot.com (Wayne Long)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Who was No. 1?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 15:33:18 -0600
Organization: Motorola (Austin,TX)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ome.sps.mot.com

It would seem to me from watching the series 
progress that No. 1 was an individual in the 
British Intelligence agency who masqueraded
as an agency subordinate of some sort to hide
his cover yet maintain the communications
links neccessary to pull and capture agents
and scientists of both sides onto the Island.

The notion that No. 6 was actually No. 1 is
absurd -- one just simply needs to follow the
story line and apply a bit of logic.


The series has execellent ingredients of a 
book?  Does anyone know what book, if any,
this series was based on?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne Long                      Internet: wcl@risc.sps.mot.com
6501 William Cannon Drive West  UUCP: cs.texas.edu!oakhill!risc!wcl
Austin, Texas 78735-8598        Phone (512) 891-4649  FAX: 891-3818
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: QUES: Convention-is it good?
From: mcsdc1gf@dct.ac.uk
Date: 21 Jan 93 11:27:53 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

Hi there , fellow prisoners , Gazza here!

This may seem like a stupid question but can somebody tell me what happens
at the Annual convention at Portmerion?

Is there film shows or talks or exhibitions or what?

The reason i am asking is that me and a couple of friends will be attending
this year for the first time ,so i was wondering what to expect

Thanks

Gazza

BE SEEING YOU!
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: dmanning@cwis.unomaha.edu (Dave Manning)
Subject: John Drake, Danger Secret Prisoner
Summary: lala
Keywords: prisoner
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:35:31 GMT

Well, according to the recent FAQ, McGoohan indicated that the Prisoner was    
not an extension of the "Secret Agent" and "Danger Man" series. I'm going
to go against canon and dispute this. :-)

According to a reference book I was browsing through last night on TV series,
"Danger Man" chronicled the adventures of John Drake, an agent of NATO, as
he fought the bad guys, so to speak. "Secret Agent" was basically the
continued adventures of Drake, now working for British Intelligence, set
in an hour-long show in color (DM was in black and white [DM {this just hit
me} also refers to "Danger Mouse"]). One of the last episodes of SA concerns
the defection of a scientist working on a mind-transfer device; for some     
reason, Drake lets him go, returns to London, and is strongly reprimanded
for his actions.

We know the Prisoner resigns on a matter of principle, and does have a run
in w/ a scientist conducting mind-control experiments in one of the episodes.
The author of the reference strongly asserts (and I agree) that this is the
same scientist, and that the Prisoner is really John Drake.

Now, I've not seen any episodes of "Secret Agent" but would like to. Does
anyone know where they can be found?

Food for thought,

Dave
--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::    "Run around the house,				Dave Manning	     ::
::       run around the house!"			dmanning@cwis.unomaha.edu    ::
:::::::::::--The Birthday Party::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
From: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: FILL IN EPISODES
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:31:00 GMT
Reply-To: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Organization: Almac BBS Ltd. +44 (0)324 665371

VV..I dispute the authority of the FAQ (!)  I read in NUMBER SIX that there
VV..were originally supposed to be two seasons of 13 episodes.  It became
VV..clear for budgetary reasons they would never make it to the "second
VV..series".

Maybe so. I think I can also remember seeing that there was only going to
be six episodes at first and that it was to be a serial as against a
series.

/\/\ | |< |.                                     mike.dickson@almac.co.uk
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . Do canonical doctors lose their patients?
                                                                                                                     
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Re: The Girl Who Was Deat
Date: 22 Jan 93 02:21:00 GMT
Reply-To: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Organization: Almac BBS Ltd. +44 (0)324 665371

MC..    Just for the record, this is one of my fave episodes, just behind that o
MC..where 6 breaks 2 by pretending that he's been sent to report on the running
MC..the Village.  (I forget it's name).

It was called 'Hammer Into Anvil' and features a dynamite performance
from Patrick Cargill. I agree - one of the best.

/\/\ | |< |.                                     mike.dickson@almac.co.uk
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . Optical Mice Have no Balls
From: briano@microsoft.com (Brian Overland)
Subject: McGoohan's views vs. my own
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:50:47 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

Spoilers...






Thank you to Mike Dickson for providing the excellent nine-part
interview of McGoohan. I enjoyed it thoroughly. It inspired me to go
back and re-read "The Prisoner Companion," which also features a
McG interview that says some of the same things.

I think it backs up my assertion that "Number 1 is an idea." However,
McG's own interpretation is darker than my own. He says that #1 is
the dark side of each of us, a contention that reminds me of at
least two famous novels: "Lord of the Flies," and "1984." The
difference is that unlike those books, "The Prisoner" flatly refuses to
identify the supreme leader (#1) with any specific person...is the idea
then that #1 could be ANYONE (including #6, if he chose to take control),
but that whoever it is necessarily must give into his "dark side"?

But it is also interesting that McG says that the expectation
was to come up with a "James Bond villian"...and by this I think
he means Goldfinger, Dr. No, etc. And he is right--if that was
the ending wouldn't you actually feel disappointed? Wouldn't that
have lowered "The Prisoner" to the level of just another James
Bond flick? So it almost seems to me that "The Prisoner" HAD to
have a bizarre, symbolic ending. Therefore you can't interpret #1
in any other way than as a symbol for something.

"Freedom is a myth."

McG has said this more than once, I think, but my interpretation of
the series is much more optimistic. I believe that one can argue that
the series really is optimistic, despite McG's remarks: Notice that
in a number of episodes, #6 achieves substantial victories over the
leaders of the Village. I view "Once Upon a Time" as a kind of final
showdown and they do NOT break him. They absolutely fail this one
last time, and the punishment is death for #2. This being the case, 
how can you really contend that #6 fails to achieve any freedom?
Is the Village manipulating him into defeating the Village? Are they
winning by losing? That's too much of a stretch for me...

It is intriguing, though, to consider what #6 has accomplished by
the final shot. Will it all happen again? Has he learned anything?
I would contend that if nothing else, the fact that the Butler is
with #6 at the end means everything IS different. However, the ambiguity
is there (precisely as McG would want, I think).

In general, I think that there is room for interpretations not quite
as dark as McG's own. He deliberately built ambiguity and symbolism
into his series...I think to this extent, others can interpret the
series as they wish. But this is personal freedom, though, isn't it?
Which is what the series is all about!
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
From: gunther@world.std.com (Gunther W Anderson)
Subject: Re: McGoohan's views vs. my own
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:19:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.115828.16720@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> nsimms@nyx.cs.du.edu (Norwin Simms) writes:
>>#3 is Power, #2 is Authority.
>
>From the context, I think you are referring to the Butler as No.3, but 
>where do you get this from? I don't remember seeing it at any stage.
>And what about the Supervisor - could he not represent power? After all, he
>was the all-seeing, and therefore all-knowing, and it was it not he who
>controlled Rover?

OK, I do apologize for my penchant for calling the Butler #3.  It must be
a vestige from my childhood, for I think that my brother and I simply
assigned him the number 3, since it seemed logical at the time.  But you
are all, I believe, right in your opinions that the Butler was never numbered.

Well, as far as symbolic roles, and beyond the mere risk of grossly
oversimplifying things, I see some of them as:
	#2 (again) is authority, elected or imposed leaders, or whatever.
	The Butler is power, the implied potency of authority.  Though
		I must confess that I rather like someone elses opinion
		that he is rather the trappings [sic] of power.
	The Supervisor is bureaucracy, the machinations of government
		which persevere regardless of individual power.  Or
		rather, the control room is the bureaucracy.  Look at
		Hammer into Anvil for an interesting treatment of the
		Supervisor, and note that he survives #2.
	#1 is the majority, and its tyranny (note that I now know how to
		spell it).  It is the fundamental power base of democracy,
		to which all authority is subject, and must pander.
	But, what is rover?  Force?  Sounds good.  That would explain
		why Rover is sometimes wielded by the Control Room,
		and other times directly by #2.  Rover is the Police.

However, throughout the series, it is clear that above #2 there is not
one individual, but a greater heirarchy, often called 'Control' or 'Our
Masters', implying more than one, and probably a whole other organizational
structure.  So within the subtext of a spy-show, there is no #1 anywhere
to be found, and #2 is so numbered to both reinforce the fact that he
(or she) really has to report to someone else, and to annoy the prisoners.
Within the subtext of a philosophy, #1 can't be individual.  It is the
pervasive undercurrent of comfortable conformity.  It is, after all, that
concept of accepted norms of behavior which forms the real basis of law
and order.  Without that conformity, there would be anarchy.  Anarchy is,
after all, complete freedom.  And force and authority cannot control the
'masses'.  Force can, after a time, kill them, but it cannot create order
without first creating a general understanding that order is good.

Oh, well.  All I really wanted to do was publicly humiliate myself for
continually calling the Butler #3, and here I've run off another page of
dime store philosophy.
From: prisoner@infopls.chi.il.us (Pat Mondi)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Re: Anniversary logo .gif
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 21:07:20 CST
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

 KJ> A little gif of the 1967-1992 25th Anniversary logo: circle with text
 KJ> "the prisoner", bicycle with "25" in the wheel and 1967, 1992, & ITC
 KJ> on each side. Only 9Kb.

 KJ> I scanned it from the information leaflet Six of One sent me...

 KJ> Enjoy,
 KJ> Karl

  I don't mean to sound comotose, but how does one make your file into
  it's origional state? Is there a program to do this, or is there a 
  strange thing with DOS? I'd appreaciate this information. At any rate,
  thank you for posting the gif! 

              Be seeing you!

                Pat Mondi
       (prisoner.infopls.chi.il.us)

... RAM DISK is NOT an installation procedure!
--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
From: jasstev@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (stevens jason)
Subject: What's different about alternative "Chimes"?
Summary: dlkejhfd
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:52:48 GMT
Keywords: dgdfgdc

 

 I have not yet managed to see the 'alternative' version of the Chimes of 
 Big Ben.
 Is there anybody out there who can enlighten me to the new material,
 or the 'alternativeness' of the episode?
 I seen the other version anyway, so you wont be spoiling much!!!

 Jason.
From: victor.volkman@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Victor Volkman) 
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: RE: PRISONER-STYLE JACKET
Date: 22 Jan 93 09:40:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Reply-To: victor.volkman@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Victor Volkman) 


-> 'PM was asked to create 5 "fill in" episodes for U.S. release. These
-> are the ones with almost no (or r e-used) shots of the village.
-> Living in Harmony, The Girl Who was Death, Do not forsake me... are
-> some of these. These episodes can be removed from the series without
-> major impact to the overall story...'

I dispute the authority of the FAQ (!)  I read in NUMBER SIX that there
were originally supposed to be two seasons of 13 episodes.  It became
clear for budgetary reasons they would never make it to the "second
series".

"Do Not Forsake Me.." does not fit with the others.  This episode was
created when PMG was off in America filming "Ice Station Zebra".  They
needed an episode in which PMG would not have to play any role.  Even in
the final scene on the operating table, they use a large mask so you
can't see that it is PMG's stunt double.
                           
----
| HAL 9000 BBS +1 313 663 4173 or 663 3959 | Four 14.4k v.32bis dial-ins |
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From: dayton@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Michael A Dayton)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: Please post the FAQ
Keywords: FAQ, episode guide
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:14:37 GMT
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu


Hi gang!

    On one of the other newsgroups someone is asking about the 
Prisoner Companion book, and that made me think of you guys. A
local comic store here used to have it but they are out of it,
and I had to delete my personal copy of the FAQ due to lack
of disk space and a cruel Sys Admin. (Just kidding!!!) (hope he
doesn't read this).

     Anyway, the point is could someone please repost the FAQ,
or, if that is impossible, could someone please email me a list
of  titles, authors, publishers, and whatever other pertinent (sp?)
info this guy will need to order a copy?

     Thanks in advance!
     mike


************************************************************************
**                              **  "I know that I am solid           **
**  Michael Dayton              **  and I am my own bad luck."        **
**  dayton@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu   **            Peter Gabriel           **
**                              ** __The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway__ **
************************************************************************
From: victor.volkman@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Victor Volkman) 
Newsgroups: alt.tv.prisoner
Subject: RE: THE GIRL WHO WAS DEAT
Date: 22 Jan 93 08:47:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Reply-To: victor.volkman@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Victor Volkman) 

-> It was also too obvious that McGoohan went nowhere near the fair in
-> this episode.  All shots of him at the fair were either back
-> projected or used a (taller) double.  Was he ill during the filming
-> of this bit or something?

According to interviews that Steven Ricks made of the original cast,
they were on a real roller-coaster at one point during the filming of
TGWWD.
  
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| Public Access QWK-to-Usenet gateway      | With PCBoard 14.5aM & uuPCB |
+----------------------------+-------------+--------+--------------------+
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From: jamisen@mekong.engin.umich.edu (jamisen laurel hobson)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.melrose-place
Subject: Alison and Billy
Date: 26 Jan 1993 04:13:03 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mekong.engin.umich.edu
Originator: jamisen@mekong.engin.umich.edu


Well, It has been years since I have been addicted to a television`show but
after watching and getting hooked on Billy and Alison.  Who thinks that they should get together on the show?  And who thinks aAlison is a butt-head
for not noticing Billy?

Newsgroups: alt.tv.melrose-place
From: kdietric@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kimberly Dietrich)
Subject: Re: SHUE--THORNE-SMITH REAL-LIFE ROMANCE
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:31:44 GMT


I've seen several items about their romance, too.
Newsgroups: alt.tv.melrose-place
From: smithrud@advtech.uswest.com ()
Subject: Re: Alison and Billy
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:58:33 GMT

In article <1k3t3oINNrs6@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> jamisen@krazykat.engin.umich.edu (jamisen laurel hobson) writes:
>
>I just get so frustrated because (yes I know Billy is just a character)
>when someone as nice and thoughtful as he is comes along then I think their potential is being wasted.  That is if two people like each other.
>
>I agree on there should be platonic friendships on television but the
>reason I am hooked to MP is because of the sparks between the two of them.

Yes, I included that somewhere in my last post too -- that the "sparks"
are what attract some of the viewers, but once those two are brought
together as a couple, those distant and interesting sparks won't be
there any longer.  For me it's far more fascinating to see them
feelings these things at a distance and yet still keeping it just a
friendship.  Billy is also not wasting his potential, I don't think.
Should being nice and thoughtful to Alison, even if she never becomes
more than just a friend to him, be considered a waste?  Not at all.
Why would it be considered a waste just because he directs it at a friend
rather than someone who would jump into his arms in the blink of an eye?
Friends need the "nice and thoughtful bit" too.

Okay, back to the real world ...

Cari
=)