HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wark@gandalf.think.com (Mark Warkentin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,comp.music
Subject: Re: Help, which instrument?
Date: 16 Apr 92 09:57:06
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gandalf.think.com
In-reply-to: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu's message of Thu, 16 Apr 1992 03:14:16 GMT


   > hyx1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes:
   >
   >>	Can somebody give me advise on which instrument is the easiest to 
   >>learn?  I know the Q might sound stupid, but can't think of better wording.
   >>
   >>	I have no musical potential/intellence.
   >
   >No, seriously, what do you mean by the above?

	   Don't u believe tht somepeople have more musical potential
   than others (due to natural talent and childhood exposure, I guess.) ?
	   Howard Gardner (Psychologist?) suggested 7 independent 
   "intelligences", or talents:
	   1. logical-mathematical,
	   2. spatial,
	   3. linguistic,
	   4. bodily-kinesthetic (supposedly possessed by actors, athletes, 
		   and dancers, etc.)
	   5. insight into onself,
	   6. understanding of others,  and
	   7. MUSICAL.

	   What I mean was that--I lack musical intelligence.  (Mainly due to
   lack of exposure, I guess.)  I think I'm high above average in 6 of them;
   but, my MUSICAL intelligence must be far below average within the lowest 
   percentile.  (I haven't failed any class yet because some of my teachers 
   successfully petitioned the music teacher to pass me back in JHS.)
	   ...hmmm, maybe I should start increasing exposure. Could be too
	late.


It's probably inaccurate to say that anyone _lacks_ musical intelligence.
My sense is that musical intelligence is similar in many ways to linguistic
- everyone is born with a significant ability to learn language.
Ufortunately, we live in what is largely an unmusical society.  While we
are _overexposed_ to recorded music, many families do little to expose
their children to music making.  Linguists will tell you that the prime
time for learning language is 3 - 5 years old, if a person isn't exposed to
_any_ language before 12 or so it is unlikely they will ever learn any.
Almost everyone is exposed to at least _some_ music in childhood,
fortunately, and I would hate to say that it is ever "too late".  
	In my experience, people are rarely intrigued by something they are
utterly incapable of: if you enjoy music, you probably will be able to do
something with it.
--
         #  The opinions expressed are not my own and I disavow #
         #  any responsibility for them whatsoever. Then again, #
         #  my employer isn't responsible for them, either.     #
From: sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:05:23 GMT
    <1992Apr15.124058.264@Princeton.EDU> 
    <16APR199213161382@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Distribution: na
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Originator: sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com
X-Bytes: 1810

In article <16APR199213161382@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov>, packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr15.124058.264@Princeton.EDU>, roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes...
|> >Well, the government has been subsidizing performances of Schoenberg and
|> >Webern for some time now, and I haven't seen many people casting their
|> 
|> 
|> So we've established that citizens will accept the government 
|> subsidizing art to which they're indifferent. They'll probably
|> even accept subsidizing =adventurous= art, as long as they can 
|> remain indifferent to it. So the issue is with art that is
|> repellant. What's needed there is not ideology, but pragmatism.
|> A simple solution: Let those who review applications to
|> government granting agencies refer those applications that might
|> cause bad press to private foundations which they know are
|> interested in backing that kind of stuff. It wouldn't need to be
|> formally enunciated policy to do this, it would just require
|> that well-connected people be appointed to the grant-giving
|> positions. 

In the past, societies which work in this way have been called
"aristocracies".  Wars have been fought to overthrow them.  I'm
afraid that a government "of the people" cannot exist in such
an environment.  Sorry to let ideology intrude here, but I don't
think we should chuck the constitution for the sake of public
arts funding.

(Of course, any number of people might point out that there is
*already* an aristocracy in place for funding the arts and other
special interest areas.  This is precisely one of my objections.)
-- 
Gary H. Merrill  [Principal Systems Developer, C Compiler Development]
SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Dr. / Cary, NC  27513 / (919) 677-8000
sasghm@unx.sas.com ... !mcnc!sas!sasghm
From: cbullin@athena.mit.edu (Carrie L Bullington)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mozart and Messiah (was Re: Theme in Handel...]
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:42:49 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr15.211200.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.225323.11108@husc3.harvard.edu>, elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr14.200619.26812@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu>
>> rickertj@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu.UUCP (John Rickert) writes:
>> 
>>>   In Handel's _Messiah_ the theme in the chorus "And with His stripes
>>>we are healed" is the same as one of the subjects in the "Kyrie" of the
>>>Mozart _Requiem_.

Handel used the same subject for the chorus "They loathed to drink of
the river" in "Israel in Egypt."
From: "greg trice" <greg.trice@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: viola da gamba
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:48:46 EST
Reply-To: "greg trice" <greg.trice@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

  I'm interested in finding out whether there is any MODERN (i.e. 20th
century) music for the viola da gamba, particularly in an ensemble
context. Particularly interesting would be small chamber groupings, or a
concerto for gamba and orchestra. I'm not interested in arrangements.

                        -Greg Trice-
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: gtaylor@vme.heurikon.com (Gregory Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Good News for los Taveneristas
Date: 14 Apr 92 04:03:04 GMT
Reply-To: gtaylor@vme.heurikon.com (Gregory Taylor)
Organization: Heurikon Corporation, Madison, WI

Look what leapt into my hand whilst I was chasing down a recommendation
from Steven Cantor [Morton Feldman's "For Samuel Beckett" on Newport]:

John Tavener "The Protecting Veil" [Virgin Classics VC 7 91474-2]
Steven Isserlis, 'cello
London Symphony Orchestra [ olv Gennadi Rozhdestvensky]

The Protecting Veil [for 'cello and strings] - Tavener
Third Suite for 'cello, Op. 87 - Britten
Thrinos [for solo 'cello] - Tavener 

All instrumental, with not a single  voice to be heard but for the 
singing of the 'cello. The title piece clocks in at about 45 minutes,
and will take some time to sink in, but I recognize some of the string
writing from "Ikon of Light", and the solo piece is also pretty
interesting. Very austere, and to my ear it doesn't have as much
of the palindromic stuff as, say, "Little Lamb, Who Made Thee?"
The penultimate solo section of TPV goes back into this ringing
resonant thing that recalls the opening. It was frisson time. You
might like this recording. I think I will.
--
Modern times are an awkward spectacle. One the one hand, our public selves
compete for scarce window space, for the opportunity to see in and to where
power is decided and used. On the other, private life recedes like a glacier,
a translucent corner of heaven meant only to be photographed, never settled.
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Date: 15 Apr 92 12:40:58 GMT
 <CB.92Apr13170015@tamarack12.timbuk> <15APR199207432656@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Distribution: na
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

In article <15APR199207432656@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov>
 packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:
>Anyway, although Roger Lustig correctly points out that
>governments have been heavily involved in artistic
>efflorescenses in the past, I agree with Chris Brewster and
>others who say that the situation is different in a democracy.
>It's a basic fact that citizens will turn people out of office
>who support government funding of the arts if there is a visible
>connection between the funding and art they find repellant, and
>this is how things should work. 

Well, the government has been subsidizing performances of Schoenberg and
Webern for some time now, and I haven't seen many people casting their
votes along that line.  If only they knew...

>The same thing has happened in science, incidentally. Senator
>Proxmire sometimes gave his "Golden Fleece" award to research
>projects he found objectionable or silly. 

Senator Proxmire was an embarrassment to the Senate and to America in
many of those cases.  His distorted, sensationalist reports of research
were good for headlines and little else.  In several cases Golden Fleece
research later turned out to be quite important.

>The solution in both art and science is to have the work
>in question done with private funding.

Including all arts education?  

How about all *science* education?  

> Democracy =may= lead to
>diminished support of the arts, or modest support of mediocre
>achievements in the arts, but in the long run, democracy
>leads to a vibrant economy, which will result in greater
>private sources of funding that can support the adventurous
>stuff.

If there's anyone left who knows how to do any of it.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: NZ Women's Symphony again
From: dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz (Dale Gold)
Date: 15 Apr 92 08:48:31 PST
Organization: New Zealand Symphony Orchestra

Posted for a friend:

--- begin quote ---

I am organizing a `New Zealand Women's Symphony Orchestra' and if all 
goes well, concerts will be held in NZ in July '93 to celebrate the
centenary of women's suffrage in NZ - one of the first countries in the
world to win this for women.

To help with my research, I wonder if anyone has a mailing address or 
FAX number for the San Francisco Women's Symphony (formerly the Bay Area
Women's Orchestra), the European Women's Orchestra, or any other
established women's orchestras? 

I am looking for comprehensive repetoire lists of women's compositions for
orchestra, including piano concerti - preferably with the publisher's
information.

If anyone can help with the addresses/FAX numbers, please contact
dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz via email, or send me a FAX at: (644)387-8418.
(644 is the area code for Wellington, NZ.  transmit FAX after answer-phone
message).

Thanks,
Victoria Jones

--- end quote ---

--
- dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz
- Korokoro, New Zealand
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Album by bizzare British spiritualist
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:25:44 GMT
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Apr15.083211.29272@cs.columbia.edu>
tait@cs.columbia.edu (Carl Tait) writes:

>[...] if Chopin actually wrote the plodding drivel
>laughably called "Ballade," his compositional skills must have
>deteriorated significantly after his death.

Of course --- since his death, all that Chopin could do was *de*compose.

:-)    :-)    :-)    :-)    :-)      (-:    (-:    (-:    (-:    (-:

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Memorable (?) cover art.
Date: 15 Apr 1992 21:05:07 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <11450@mindlink.bc.ca> 
Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:
|Weren't there some albums by Ivan Moravec released on Conoisseur Society about
|20 years ago of him playing stuff by Chopin which featured nude women on their
|covers?
|
|The Westminster Gold cover of Berlioz' Romeo & Juliet had a naked couple
|featured ... the photography was VERY soft-focus, and the guy was wearing a
|pair of socks!

The most memorable cover I've ever seen was a Movimento Musica "Magic
Flute" conducted by Karajan.  The cover was of a huge gold-leafed dildo
piercing some fluffy white clouds.

Arne
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rhc52134@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard)
Subject: Re: Sibelius Violin Concerto
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:10:23 GMT

jcm@cfm.brown.edu (Javier Cruz-Mena) writes:
>|> Pardon my ignorance, what are the other three greatest violin concerti?
>|> I can think of what would be considered the four most *popular* violin
>|> concerti but I think it is difficult to say which are the four greatest.
>|> 
>|> -- 
>|> David Johnson

>	In general, Beethoven's, Tschaikovsky's, Sibelius' and Brahms' are the four
>concerti which ought to be on the top of any violinist's standard list. Some people 
>argue for sneaking Bruch's concerto in as well.
>	All this is, of course, quite arbitrary... as many other things in life.

>	javier cruz mena.

The four greatest violin concerto are by:
	Beethoven
	Tschaikovshy
	Brahms 
	Mendolesson(spelling error?)

But I would like to add "Four Season" and one of Mozart's. I don't like
Sibelius'.

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Richard H Chiu, UI,Urbana-Champaign l                                           
e-mail:rhc52134@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu    l
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,sci.lang
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: Cor ANGLIAS or ANGL'E
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:01:37 GMT

In article <1068@csinn.capsogeti.fr>, grossi@capsogeti.fr (Thomas Grossi) writes:
<
<But surely you mean "a German instrument 
<maker named Basset" and not "Horn"!

Actually, we Hornes are a rather musical lot.  There's Marilyn, there's
Lena,....

					--Scott (going to practice the piano)

P.S.:  Yeah, yeah, I know:  Get this drivel off `sci.lang'....

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cem@nmt.edu (Confed. of Electronic Musicians)
Subject: Re: Low trombones [Re: Oboe family]
Organization: New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 03:03:42 GMT

>In article <1992Apr13.175020.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>
>   I seem to recall reference to a contrabass tbn in b-flat which
>   would probably be playable down to below that A (my speculation).
>   However, the slide would have to be VERY long, or crooked.

Actually, the slide is the same 'size' as a tenor trombone.  It is,
however, doubled over.  Where the tenor trombone is two tubes joined
at the bottom, the contrabass trombone is *four* tubes.
                              /
                             /|       /------------------------\
            ----------------- |   |>--|----------------------\ |
           / /-----------\   \|       |                      | |
           | |           |    \       \----------------------/ |
           | \-------------------------------------------------/
           \-------------/

Damn, that's a *ugly* rendition!  Anyway...The slide section is like
welding two tenor trombone slides together (both 'slides' move as one).
At the left side of the picture is a loop of tubing that is a lot like
an 'F' attachment with no trigger (ie it's *always* there)

Also, depending on the actual design of the slide, some models have an
8th and 9th position!  This is *good* because if I had to play one of
these, I'd want as many alternate positions as possible.

Alan

-- 
Alan Kerr
Confederation of Electronic Musicians    cem@nmt.edu
New Mexico Tech
Socorro, NM, USA
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:30:50 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <ku7cgiINNk2h@calvin.usc.edu> alves@calvin.usc.edu (William  
Alves) writes:
> To once again bring up an argument I used in another newsgroup: If  
Mozart
> were alive today and able to collect retroactive royalties, he would
> likely be richer than Paul McCartney. As it is, thank goodness he had
> government support when he did or we might not have much of his music
> today.
> 

The problem is that "government support" doesn't mean the same thing
now as it did even 50 years ago, and certainly not what in meant
in the 18th and 19th centuries.  Mozart's support (and Beethoven's,
etc.) came from patrons (including governments) that chose to
support him because they liked what he produced. These partrons
had the right to tell Mozart what they wanted, to stop subsidizing
him if he no longer produced what they liked, and so forth.

Government support of the arts in the US is quite different. Some
of the artists take the stance that nobody has the right to judge
them based on whether they like them or not. If the patron (the
government) objects to what they do, they scream "censorship" when
it tries to stop support. 

--
Jim Mann                                       
jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com 
Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky)
Subject: Re: Britten
Reply-To: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:51:49 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.203024.13998@dsd.es.com>, pdelafos@djulien.dsd.es.com (Peter Delafosse) writes:
>How DOES one become familiar with Britten's film music?
>Peter DeLafosse

It ain't easy.  Britten claimed that virtually none of his film music was
representative of his abilities so that he "disowned" it.  There have never
been any recordings of his film music (except Young Persons Guide to the 
Orchestra).

The situation is not hopeless,  however.  Many of Britten's "disowned" or
otherwise rejected works are gradually finding their way into print and are
being recorded.  No doubt, his film music will soon surface.

Further, most of Britten's film efforts were for films produced by the General
Post Office of Great Britain--an organization that was famous (in the film
world) for producing films of high artistic merit.  Most of these films were
documentaries that some how include the notion that one should use the G.P.O.
The film I mentioned, NIGHTMAIL is as famous in cinema studies classes,
as something akin to the use of Monteverdi's "Ohime! Se tanto amante" in
music history/appreciation classes.  It is about 30 minutes long, and in the
best of 1930's documentary  tradition, follows the route of a letter going
through British mail (processed overnight on railway cars; hence the title
"Nightmail").  This film is available on videocassette, unlike most other
Britten films.  (A facsimile of a page from the score can be seen in the
book "Britten and Auden in the 1930s".)

1935	COALFACE
1936	NIGHTMAIL
	CALENDAR OF THE YEAR
	THE SAVING OF BILL BLEWETT
1937	LINE TO THE TSCHIERVA HUT
	LOVE FROM A STRANGER
1938	THE TOCHER
	VILLAGE HARVEST
1946	YOUNG PERSONS GUIDE TO THE ORCHESTRA

Bob Kosovsky
Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
New York Public Library -- Music Division
bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky)
Subject: Re: Opera/Nimbus/Prima Voce Quality?
Reply-To: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 13:25:13 GMT

In article <CB.92Apr4001349@tamarack.timbuk>, cb@tamarack.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>Neil E. Midkiff writes: It seems
>   that Nimbus plays the original 78s on an old gramophone (totally acoustic
>   needle->diaphragm->horn playback).  Microphones then pick up the sound and 
>   the ordinary digital recording/mastering process continues.
>   Is this taking "period instrument performance" too far?
>
>Yes.  The obvious fallacy with Nimbus's seemingly "purist" approach is that
>those grooves contain a lot more information than the old equipment can
>retrieve.  Modern equipment that is modified to get everything that's in the
>groove, while reading a minimum of the noise, is a much better solution.
>There's a slightly cloying antiquarianism in using old equipment.  IMHO.

Are you sure about this?  My one Nimbus CD (of Giuseppe de Luca) sounds like
an electronic pickup was used.  Aside from all that, the extensive use of
reverberation (much too much for my taste, which prefers Studio 8-H sound)
would seem to dash to pieces any attempt at "authenticity."
Bob Kosovsky
Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
New York Public Library -- Music Division
bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Mahler CD recommendations
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 23:19:17 GMT

For anyone who is interested I have made avaalable for anonymous FTP the text
of an article I wrote surveying many available Mahler recordings. The article was
written for Offbeat, the monthly magazine for CFUV-FM, the campus/community
station located at the University of Victoria. I am CFUV's Classical Music
Director.

I have updated the article with a postscript about some recent issues.

The article (which is about 40K, so I am not posting it here) is available at

	CAMINS.CAMOSUN.BC.CA

as	CAM$ROOT:[ANONYMOUS.MISC]MAHLER.TXT

sorry about the crippled naming convention, blame DEC!
(Actually, if you just CD to MISC after logging on you can get mahler.txt).

-- 
Deryk Barker
Computer Science Dept.
Camosun College,
Victoria, BC
Canada
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pdelafos@djulien.dsd.es.com (Peter Delafosse)
Subject: Re: Britten
Reply-To: pdelafos@djulien.dsd.es.com (Peter Delafosse)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 20:30:24 GMT

Jon Conrad writes:

> In article <1992Mar30.044043.10790@timessqr.gc.cuny.edu>
> kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu writes:
> 
> >Though I generally
> >like Britten's music, my interest centers on his film music (especially his
> >film NIGHTMAIL).
> 
> Which I'm not familiar with, but I'll try to answer your question
> anyway.

How DOES one become familiar with Britten's film music?

Peter DeLafosse