HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:44:30 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>It's generating too much software support to be called "bogus".  It works
>well and supports applications the likes of which no other system can offer.

  There's a distinct difference between being a marketing success and being
an objecively superior product.

  Windows falls completely into that category, it is an inferior "OS" that was
made successful by a very good marketing scheme.  These same people could quite
easily make money selling shit in a pie pan too.

>Like it or not, most computers are used for applications, not games and
>demos.

  More Amigas are used to accomplish "real" work Jerry, more than you're
able to admit to yourself.  Of course, it's rather nice to take a recreational
diversion with a game every now and then, which is how the A500 here (which is
normally setup as a debugging console) is for.

  I'm not into demos, although some of them are art, both in the programming
as well as visual sense.

  -jack-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dusek@cadsun.corp.mot.com (James Dusek)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: Motorola, Inc., Software Research and Development, Rolling Meadows, IL. 60008
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 21:24:59 GMT

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>In article <1993Jan12.161059.11930@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>: >If you think a 1200 is as fast or powerful as a 486sx, you are sadly
>>: >mistaken.

	He's right Skip, even though SX stands for SuX. Thats why I have
a '486 DX. But it doesn't hold a candle to my Amiga.

>>: Sure, the 486sx has a lot of raw CPU power, but not much more.  It doesn't
>>: have a blitter, it doesn't have a copper, it doesn't have sprites, and it
>>: doesn't have a sound coprocessor to help it out.
>>Sure it does, if you add S3 video and Ultrasound audio!  Get with the times,
>>Skip.

	The only problem is you don't have to add the cards with the
Amiga. With the Amiga you have one standard, (well two if you count 
AGA.) With the IBM you have a choice of CGA,TGA,Hercules,VGA,SVGA,ect.
And you have dozens of venders spewing out boards. You also have vendors
putting out a boards that do the same functions, but have a differant
set of standards.

	Than you get games that need expanded memory, not extended memory.
OR they need extended not expanded. If you have your memory set wrong they
crash. Wolf3d is an excellant game because it uses either! The first five
products loaded on my '486 did not work, and/or function correctly because
of extened vs expanded memory problems or it had a problem with the mode
the computer was running in.

	Get with the times Jerry, a computer shouldn't have these problems,
but a kludge like the IBM does, and until they are fixed the IBM will be a
kludge.

>>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
>>| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
>>|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
                     ^
	but have problems finding the holes :)

>Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

	James Dusek

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: engb@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Ben Eng)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Organization: Jet Penguin Lavatories
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:25:32 GMT

In <torrie.726830571@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:

>kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki) writes:

>>Would it be possible to run 68k machine code ALONG WITH native apps
>>(relative to the processor)?

>  Well, emulation mode on a RISC processor means software emulation.
>The processor doesn't have a mode switch where it switches to different
>hardware to run 68K code; it's just a software program running in native
>RISC code which examines binary 68K data and emulates it.

Oh I can see that working well.  I have a brand spanking new Sun
SparcServer 10 with 64MB of RAM running at work with 1 SuperSPARC
processor.  I tried running the Liken Mac emulator on it yesterday
and barely as fast as a Mac Plus; perhaps even slower.

Software emulation of a 68K on any RISC processor will suck
diarrhea through a straw.  Judging from performance of Liken
(a very decent software emulation package), I would estimate
that the MIPS rating of such an emulator will be around 1/60
of what the hardware gives you in native mode operation.

It would make more sense to provide a 68K compatibility board
that plugs into the machine than to do pure software emulation.
It would be MUCH faster.  It would probably be more cost
effective to Commodore; they wouldn't have to spend man-years
in software development.  DAMN, if I had a RISC Amiga I wouldn't
care if every piece of software I owned went into the trash.  I
would EXPECT Unix to run on the machine---not necessarily from
Commodore.

Ben
-- 
e-mail: engb@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca or ben@jetpen.gts.org (Ben Eng)
UofT EngSci 9T2                   ``We are all masochists here.''
Home: (416)-979-8761, (416)-979-7885
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 Pricing
From: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??)
Date: 8 Jan 93 13:16:56 -0600
Reply-To: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <1ikd7sINNil5@mercury.kingston.ac.uk>, cs_e445@ceres (Vlod Kalicun) writes:
>ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>:    today that its now 2690 with the powerup deal.  One question I have is,
>:    why is it called a powerup deal when you don't have to previously own 
>:    an Amiga to powerup from?  Why not just lower the retail price instead.
>:    I hope CBM extends it past March.  I was thinking of getting an A1200
>:    with large HD, but right now I am only about $900 dollars away from being
>:    able to afford the A4000.  
>: 
>: 							Greg Greene
>:                                                         ggg@kepler.unh.edu
>
>Why does the Power Up only apply to the states.
>The Europe market is quite a big chunk for C= and yet we don't get
>any of these offers.
>
>Is it C= UK just being greedy or just lazy??
>


It's basically (IMHO) cause the US CBM market share is gettin next to nothing
and it REQUIRES that there be deals for CBM to exist here unlike their success
in the European countries.



>Regards..
>
>Vlod
>-Amiga Advocate.

Jim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Screeeemmmmmin fast 4000/040..YEEEEEEHA!!          X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
          Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
  -----(612) 656-9693--                         MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
      We're almost done with the Cray module for the EmPlanT.  :) heh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:33221 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19739
From: rar@auc.UUCP (Rodney Ricks)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:42:56 GMT
Reply-To: rar@auc.UUCP (Rodney Ricks)
Organization: Atlanta University Center, Atlanta, Ga.

In article <C0AKr6.7q3@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>  Of course, they could do what I did to my Amiga, bought an external
>>drive. So both of my Amigas have an external floppy, much easier to move
>>them from machine to machine than ms-dog machines floppy drives. DJ.
>
>Excuse us for liking to have our periphearls INSIDE the machine!  Give
>me a break...now having external floppy drives is a *FEATURE*.

This is said as if there aren't any MSDOS machines that have external
floppies.  If you want to see some that do, just go to your nearest
Radio Shack.

Also, I'd like to point out to Paul Prescod that all Amigas have at least one
internal floppy drive, and most Amiga models can have additional internal
drives, as well as external ones.

In conclusion, for those machines that allow the peripherals to be inside
the machine AS WELL AS outside then, yes, having external floppy drives
available IS a feature.


P.S.  This is not, in ANY way, meant as an endorsement of Radio Shack
      computers.  I just wanted to point something out.
-- 
"My country is the world.  My religion is doing good."                      ///
                                      - Thomas Paine                       ///
                                                                       \\\///
Rodney Ricks,   Morehouse College                                       \\//
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:54:39 GMT

In article <C0rIBG.2yG@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>
>If it's so damn simple, why did it take them so long to sell a stock
>68040 based Amiga?  And that's 32 bit->32 bit!
>

Well, Paul, if you'd think for a minute you'd figure that the A4000
was in development for a while.  The A4000 is radicaly different from 
it's predecessor, the A3000.  Why should they have developed ANOTHER 
machine using old ECS technology when they had NEW technology coming 
out?

--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: CBM does it again... 23 watt p.s. for A1200?!?
Keywords: gimme a break
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:44:22 GMT

I'm not enough of a power type to know if 23W is 'too' weak, but how MANY
add in cards CAN the 1200, as a console, TAKE?  Eh?  Then,
maybe a 23watt PS might not be so bad.  These montrous PSs 
are usually for towered machines expecting gobs of cards.
 
-- 
Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu
"I'd rather have a kiss of my yellow gypsy's lips"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: trevore@vast.unsw.edu.au (Trevor Elbourne (Supr. Hell) BE)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: University of New South Wales
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:31:56 GMT

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
: In article <1993Jan4.114316.11600@klaava.Helsinki.FI> lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
: >MB is so objective: approximately 2 lines of Amiga OS strenghts, and
: >70 of weaknesses...:)
: 
 [.... stuff deleted  ]

: 
:    The Macintosh also has a nicety called 'TeachText'.  TeachText is a very
: nice document viewer that can use documents with imbedded graphics.  The
: graphics can be color or black-and-white, structured or bitmapped.  This allows
: documentation files for a utility to have in them snapshots of screens from
: the utility, for instance.  Or you could have a doc file for a PostScript or
: TrueType font with a bitmapped picture of the font imbedded in the doc file.
: The possibilities are endless.  On the Amiga, whenever the auther of a utility
: wants to show a menu or screen from the utility, the only thing the person
: can do is attempt to design a VERY crude representation of that screen or menu
: using ASCII graphics in the text file to accompany that utility.  There are
: really no comparisons between text files with crude ASCII representations of
: graphics, and documents with graphics in them.
:    
:    Commodore USED to have something called NotePad that could have eventually
: been expanded to an all-purpose document viewer like TeachText.  But, true to
: form, Commodore abandoned it.  I wish Commodore would do two things: come up
: with an IFF form for a text file with imbedded ILBM graphics.  Then write an
: update for NotePad, minus the editing capabilities, that can view documents
: with this IFF form.  An even better solution would be to rewrite the
: ASCII-based AmigaGuide so that it supports color graphics in addition to
: boring text.  
: 
: 
: ---
: | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
: --------------------------------------------------

This point about `Teach Text' is something you can't criticise C= for,
it's hardly what I would call an operating system feature, rather an
application and C= seems to be offering low level support for such a
tool in version 3.0, its up tp the developers to exploit this support
and write the application.

If this is really a discussion about the shorcommings of AmigaOS then
lets look at real OS issues such as global resource tracking or
virtual memory, two very noticible chinks in the Amigas amour. Overall
though its definately one of the better operating systems i've seen.

 -- 
"Let me be the first to offer you my sincerest contrafibularities."
	- E. Blackadder

Trevor Elbourne 			VLSI and Systems Tecnology (VaST) lab
trevore@vast.unsw.edu.au                Dept of Computer Science & Engineering
trevore@cs.unsw.oz.au                   University of New South Wales
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:01:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.200419.13617@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Andreas Stenmark (c92andst@odalix.ida.liu.se) wrote:
>:
>: Intel has never been in the front line of microprocessor development. And
>: that's a fact.
>
>No, it's not a fact; it's your opinion.  Please state it as such.

The pot is calling the kettle black again...

>:      /// Andreas Stenmark - Computer Science at LiTH, Sweden

>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
>| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
>|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: An Amigan does it *again* Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Date: 6 Jan 1993 21:45:32 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan6.143803.20006@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>So you're saying that the Amiga version of Civilization isn't one of those
>Amiga games that takes over the machine and kills all other running tasks?
>Nice to hear.

Absolutely.  Civilization and SimCity are two of the nicest games out
there in the way of OS compliancy.  And SimCity has been one of my
favorite games for a long time.

Greg



--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 20:53:06 GMT

In article <1inccgINNqbh@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> dstuve@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (David Stuve) writes:
>In article <C0K2p1.1HF@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>In article <1ikbncINN6cb@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> dstuve@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (David
>>Stuve) writes:
>>
>>   Here is what I would like to see:
>
>[good suggestions summarized]
>
>A word processor/database/drawing/spreadsheet/communications package?
>How much would you be willing to pay for such a monster?

   $170.  That's how much MicroSoft Works costs.  I still say that it should
be packaged with high-end and mid-range Amigas, since Apple packages 
Claris Works with many of their systems.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
From: cg18ffl@icogsci1.ucsd.edu (Spumoni...)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 4 Jan 93 05:43:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

Paul Prescod writes:

>You are saying that on a stock Amiga, you can have, on your monitor at
>one time 400,000 colours, without AGA.

	Heh. You wish. He was referring to the fact you can have multiple
resolutions and colour depths on the same "screen" (ie you can see them all).
The multiple HAM pictures are all using a different subset of the ECS's
palette of 4096 colors (16 base colors, Hold And Modify the others in
reference to the base 16, all the way UP to 4096 colors.)
	Also, I'm not going to proclaim this ability of the Amiga as a
strength, because then certain people will start whining that the Atari 800
could do the same thing, it's nothing but eye candy, it has no use in the
*REAL* (sic) world, get a real computer, blah spit ptui.

Oh. well. :)



----------------------------------------------
nverenin@sdcc13.ucsd.edu





Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kevint@sad.hp.com (Kevin Taddeucci)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:13:07 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Paul Prescod (papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
> >In fact, his statement should be very much true. The '040 uses the same
> >"double clock" technique that exists in 486DX2's. So, to be fair,
> >the '040/25 should be compared with 486DX2/50 (and '040/33-486DX2/66).
> 
> Funny, my literature about the 040 doesn't mention this double clock
> stuff....are you trying to imply that the 040 goes twice the speed of
> the motherboard, like the DX2?

YES it does!

Ok, I'm sick of this debate popping up every now and then, so let's put an 
end to it right now!

Quoting directly from Motorola's MC68040 DESINGER'S HANBOOK, page 9-6, 
section 9.2.2.

" 9.2.2 Calculating Frequency-Adjusted MC68040 Output Specifications

  The MC68040 uses two clocks to generate timing -- a bus clock (BCLK) and 
  a processor clock (PCLK). The PCLK signal is exactly twice the frequency 
  of the BCLK singal and is internally phase-locked to BCLK and 
  distributed throughout the device to generate timing for all logic 
  blocks. The BCLK signal is only used as the reference signal for the 
  phase-lock loop (PLL), which synchronizes the PCLK. The use of dual 
  clock inputs allows the bus interface to operate at half the speed of 
  the internal logic."
  
  
                  OK, CAN WE ALL AGREE ON THIS POINT NOW!!

       ----------------------------- ------------------------------------
      | Kevin J. Taddeucci          | e-mail: kevint@hpsad.sad.hp.com    |
      | Hewlett Packard Firmware QA | HPDesk: Kevin TADDEUCCI /HP5300/A0 |
      | Telnet: 794-4192            | HP Mailstop: 2LR-N                 | 
       ----------------------------- ------------------------------------

 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtaylor@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Douglas Taylor)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Summary: Neurotic IBM user alert! 
Keywords: Neuroses lobotomies penis envy spam spam spam humbug 
Organization: Florida State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 16:14:33 GMT

In article <C0ouvJ.C9J@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>>What do you define as "SVGA."  Trident SVGA is about equivalent to AGA.
>>>It's also about $50.00.
>
>All I was saying is that SVGA is a wide spectrum, you can't say "SVGA
>is this and SVGA is that."  Trident is certainly not as good as AGA,
>but then trident is dirt cheap.

 Please compare your two statements: first, Trident is ABOUT equivalent, and
	when pressed, you drop it back down to "certainly" not as good... and
	you are the one who asked for a qualification of SVGA...

>
>Hmm, i wonder how much an alternate, 16 bit, wave synthesis sound card
>for the Amiga costs?  Or an internal modem?  Or a video upgrade (for
>the non-AGA machines).
>

 Flipping through my AmigaWorld... 16-bit sound card, CD quality: roughly $600
	for the SunRize product; internal modem: EXACTLY the same as PC prices
	(remember, we have a 16-bit "IBM" slot or two also...); and video
	upgrades?  Sheesh.. we have a veritable plethora, from DCTV to HAM-E
	to Visiona and Opal-Vision; you makes your bets and you pays...

>>	What are the differences between the 66 and 33 mHz 486 chips?
>>Other than the fact that one is double clocked?
>
>One runs TWICE the speed of the other.  That doesn't mean system
>performance doubles, but it sure as hell improves by quite a bit.
>
>>	Amax II+, Emplant, 486 Vortex board, 386 CBM board.
>
>Ahhh, so you can pay MORE for a 486 CPU then a full 486 computer...good
>plan!
>

 You really mean to say they have 33mHz 486 machines now for under a $1000?
	Good quality 486s manufactured by a company that has a good solid
	reputation and a sound production base?  Really? From who?  vortex makes
	the 486SLC bridgeboard, and I haven't seen ANY Dell, IBM, or Compaq 
	machines for that price...
 And, I might add, you failed to address the Mac capabilities - you honestly
	cannot say that the IBM has better word-publishing or graphics
	capabilities than the Mac (or the Amiga, for that matter...)
>

/============================================================================\
| L. Douglas Taylor InterNet: dtaylor@garnet.acns.fsu.edu |    IMPORTANT:    |
|=========================================================|   This message   |
| Guildenstern: We cross our bridges when we come to them | has cost the Net |
|   and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our | hundreds, if not |
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|                                                         |     to send.     |
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy