From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: VOTE, BABY, VOTE!
Followup-To: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democratc.d,alt.politics.election,ba.poliitcs,co.politics,nj.politics,ny.politics,talk.politics.misc
Organization: The World
	<BZS.92Nov12031138@world.std.com>
	<1992Nov13.005513.20851@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 06:30:32 GMT


From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
>>But if you decide to give me $1B to put me into the tank building
>>business (whatever), that is, a $1B contract for tanks, and I come out
>>even on the books the first year, do you think I am equivalent to a
>>company which didn't get $1B? How much of that $1B went to capital
>>investment, for example, so now I own tank-building equipment? What
>>advantage is that next time a tank contract comes up? etc.
>
>If you didn't have any tank-building equipment, you wouldn't
>have gotten the contract.

Bzzzt, wrong.

You really think companies invest in tank-building equipment and then
hope perhaps the govt will give them a contract?

Good guess tho.

You should also perhaps look into what the initials SBIR mean.

>If you can't objectively measure it, how do you propose to compare
>it to the benifits the rich derive from government. A subjective
>measure isn't sufficient since, by definition, no one agrees on
>it.

You're missing something here, only a MAJORITY need agree or disagree,
not everyone.

>>You think some homeless guy sleeping on the street
>>benefits in the same way as the Frobozz Corp winning a bid to build
>>high-pressure widgets for battleships?
>
>From the diverse government social programs, the homless guy is 
>certainly benefiting.

He is? Even tho he's homeless? Looking at a bum sleeping on the street
do you really need a detailed proof that the guy ain't doing too well
nor profiting madly from govt programs?

>He's certainly not benefiting in the same
>way, but that doesn't say if he benefits more or less.

I think you are heading off the deep-end here.

>In terms
>of the effect on their respective standards of living, the homeless
>guy might well benefit more.

*splash*

>>Oh don't tell me, you're against the draft (even in WWII?) Sorry
>>buddy, maybe it's too late, maybe it's PAYBACK time for some folks,
>>swallow the same bullshit they tried to feed me, only not the same,
>>only money for them.
>
>Oh, I see: Punishing the rich is _revenge_ for the draft, and that
>makes it a good and moral thing.

No, it's not revenge.

It's not punishment.

Any more than being drafted was ever "punishment".

They said "it's your DUTY" when I was 18 in 1970 and we were running
an all expenses paid meat-grinder.

Maybe now it's someone else's duty?

>Since I wasn't even alive 50 years ago (as is true of about 65% or so 
>of the population, rich and poor alike), are they really a rational
>target for your revenge?

Are you governed by the Nazis 50 years later?

Look Frank, all you come off as is: "Me and mine, screw everyone
else". You may convince yourself you are moralizing, but moralizing
has very little to do with rationalizing selfishness.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

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