From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: On the first debate among the presidential candidates
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:06:02 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.012718.17235@oakhill.sps.mot.com> pjm@anegada.sps.mot.com (Patrick J. McGuinness) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.010800.4709@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
>>In article <29153@life.ai.mit.edu>, Clinton for President <75300.3115@compuserve.com> writes:
>>...
>>>                    Statement of SEN. AL GORE
>>>         On the first debate among the presidential candidates

>>	:D, Al Gore is sooooo unbiased!

>>>  George Bush finished fourth -- behind Bill Clinton, who was the clear
>>>  winner, in expressing a plan for economic recovery, behind Ross Perot
>>>  in an understanding of why the economy is in trouble, and even behind
>>>  Jim Lehrer, the debate's moderator, in an ability to present a plan
>>>  for America's future.

>>	Actually, George finished second, behind Perot.  Although the media
>>(and you) would like us to believe otherwise. The commentary by the media (and
>>you) after the debate was pathetic.

>I second this view ... the "media elite" view, and the "people's" view,
>as evidenced by the C-SPAN call-in, was like night and day.

Well, the "people's view," as evidenced by the polls, showed Bush coming
in a distant 3rd in EVERY poll.  ABC's poll had Clinton-Perot-Bush,
while the other 3 polls had Perot-Clinton-Bush.

>To the media elite, it was "Clinton won, because he didn't lose."
>These guys base their analysis on yesterday's polls and their
>own prejudices instead of what happened.

Sigh.  They were talking about *strategically*, for the purpose of the
election.  Clinton did nothing to harm himself -- and that's what the
media was saying.  They weren't saying his performance was the best --
clearly, that goes to Perot (as long as we're talking about
*performance*, rather than substance.)

>While to the people calling, Perot was honest and funny, Clinton

Funny, yes.  Honest?  Hah!  He lied about crack babies.  First he
claimed he was going to do things, and then he admits he doesn't
actually have any plans yet -- he's going to form committees to think up
plans after he gets elected.   

>was a dishonest bozo. Of the people who said they changed their minds,
>almost all went for Perot, one or two went to Bush.
>The only "Clinton" mover I recall was the guy who said he was picking
>up his Clinton/Gore sign out front and trashing it.

Exactly. But Clinton doesn't need to pick up votes to win.  He's sitting
on his lead.

>Two best lines --
>Perot: " Well, if you're asking for experience in running up a $4 trillion
>dollar debt, I don't have that ...."

>Bush: " Yeah, the market went south ... whoosh ... like that,
>because they had a sudden fear that Clinton might win."

No, this was just stupid "I know you are but what am I" kindergarden humor.

Next best line was Perot, also: "I think it's important to measure when
and where things occurred.  Did they occur when you were a young person,
in your formative years?  Or did they occur while you were a senior
official in the federal government?" 

>Worst line -- Clinton's "McCarthyism" attack was a patronizing counterpunch
>attack, especially using Bush's own Dad as mr Hero. Why doesn't he just
>answer the question?

BECAUSE THERE IS NO QUESTION.

He went to Moscow, that isn't a question.  Bush even admitted there was
nothing there left to be said.  The other thing wasn't a question -- it
was a weird comment about how the first amendment doesn't apply to you
if you're in England.

>>	Perot clearly stomped all over both Bush and Clinton.  Clinton kept
>>attacking Bush. Bush fared better by at least stating what he was for/against.

>Yup. Bush wasn't really agressive, but he stated his case plainly and
>with sincerity and, quite frankly, came off as the most stable.

This is a joke, right?  He looked tired, and it didn't even seem as if
he believed his own rhetoric.  And George Bush has never been sincere in
his life.  He lied about James Baker.  He talked about limiting
entitlements -- but not Social Security, leading us to the question as
to if he knows what "entitlements" means.  He lied about cocaine use.  He
admitted that the Defense Department has become welfare.

>He also was actually the most accurate about the state of the economy.
>We *aren't* falling apart at the seams, we are in a temporarily
>slow-growth stage. The economy will grow 3% next year, according
>to most economists - and even Clinton couldn't mess it up that quick.

That's a blatant lie.  Most economists think 2.7% growth is a HIGH
estimate, now.  

"Don't worry, be happy."  That Bush could adopt that message in '88 was
ironic, given what the song really said.  Now, it's just pathetic.

No, there's no deficit.  Pretend it doesn't exist.  Never mention it.

Anyway, what you think, what I think, it's irrelevant -- nobody likes
Bush, and he's going to lose almost every state.

>>	My wife had the joke of the day: when Clinton was doing his academy
>>award stint by thanking everyone in the US individually, he said "...and all
>>the people who have touched me during this campaign..."

>>	Whereupon my wife interjected: "and what was her name???"
>>:D brought down the house.

>Good line!

What *really* brought down the house was when Bush rubbed his nose while
talking about cocaine.

>	Bill Clinton: The Status-Quo candidate

George Bush: "Me too!  I wanna be the candidate for change, too!"  
	     "I'm Harry Truman!  It's not my fault.  Blame someone else."

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Orioles 1993 World Series Champions
niepornt@phoenix.    | Mike Mussina 1992 AL Cy Young Winner
   princeton.edu     | Roland Hemond: SIGN BARRY BONDS!!!!!!!!
Vote Clinton/Gore '92.   Four more weeks!!!   		"Bloody urine"
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.bush