HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stone@gershwin.cs.unc.edu (Donald Stone)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Eastfront Tinkering
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:11:04 GMT
Organization: UNC Department of Computer Science


Holidays are a fine time to tinker with games ...

In a recent game of Eastfront (Columbia Games), it was rudely pointed out to
me that if German wants to take Leningrad, there's nothing the Russian can do
about it.  This is particularly true during the opening turns of any scenario
from Winter 41 through Summer 43 (my rude surprise was in Summer 43).

Which got me thinking ... somewhere in the mists of time, I played a game
where combat was same hex, but in a fortress hex the attacker automatically
had to retreat if he didn't take the hex.  Which gives me the following idea.
Here's a set of rules to provide a "fix".

  Combat in Fortress Hexes: In a fortress hex, if any defending units remain,
  the attacker must retreat from the hex (use "repulse" rules).

  New Sea Area and Port: Add "Lake Ladoga" as a new sea area, controlled by
  Leningrad.  Hex O3 should be a minor port on Lake Ladoga (on the map of AH
  "Russian Front", Volkhov is a port on the east side of the Volkhov river,
  which should put it in O3 on the Eastfront map, rather than N3).  

  New "Strait":  Define a new strait between hex N2 and L2.  This straight may
  not be crossed and exists solely to prohibit the tracing of supply from
  Leningrad to Danzig.

  Production and Sea Supply:  Production points may only be transported by sea
  from Major Port to Major Port.

The combination of these rules should make it difficult to take Leningrad if
the Russian puts enough effort into defending it.  This seems like the proper
game effect.  If the Russian uses up enough effort (especially early in the
war) to keep Leningrad, he should be able to do it (of course, the cost is
that less units are availabe in the South). 

Leningrad can now be supplied and reinforced via Lake Ladoga (as was done
historically).  Because Leningrad can't remain an engaged hex, the Russians
can use the port for supply.  Additionally, Leningrad can be used as a
reinforcement hex.  However, since Volkhov is not a major port, they will not
get production from it given the Winter 41 - Winter 43 setups (this has the
additional effect that in Westfront, the Allies can't get production off the
continent until they capture a major port ... probably a good rule).  The
"fake strait" is there to prevent Leningrad from becoming impregnable should
the Germans take it (without this mechanism, Leningrad couldn't be put out
of supply until you took Danzig).  

The upshot of all this is that if the Germans put the effort in early in the
war (i.e. Summer 41), they probably have a decent shot at taking the city.
Later in the war (and particularly if you are playing later scenarios), the
Russians can defend it if they want to put the effort in.

Opinions?  Comments?

--
Donald Stone (stone@cs.unc.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: alsandor@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Michel Boucher)
Subject: Re: Hex Board Help - All Thumbs!
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 13:57:25 EST

When it comes to stacking lots of counters in one hex, you have three 
options:

1. Take your chances

2. Use a small bit of poster tack on the back of each

3. See if you can obtain some plastic stack holders.  They were available 
a few years ago and I suspect must still be around.  I've never used them 
personally, but there are times when I wished I'd had some.

Another option is to manufacture a holder out of cardboard which would at 
least provide walls for the stack.

Michel

C. Michel Boucher              | alsandor@micor.ocunix.on.ca
Private user                   |
Ottawa, Canada                 | member, Christina Amphlett fan club
CANADA                         |
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: graham@cs.washington.edu (Stephen Graham)
Subject: Re: Fire in the East, German Strategy
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 19:04:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.184349.26169@news2.cis.umn.edu> thornley@milli.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.181203.2585@beaver.cs.washington.edu> graham@cs.washington.edu (Stephen Graham) writes:
>>
>>Another general comment on the German initial attack in FiTE/SE: the
>>group I play with is tending to use almost all of the Luftwaffe for
>>the surprise attack on the Soviet Air Force. We hold back two Me109s
>>to drop the number of attacking aircraft to 69. 
>
>Just to nitpick, why 109s?  Since this is an air unit bombing mission, they're
>just as good as He 111s (both having an effective TBF of 2), and the 111s
>are slightly more useful (considering there will be no Soviet air in the
>surprise turn).

I'd want to double-check the rules set, but I don't believe the surprise
attack counts as airfield attack. Bear in mind that some of the dead Soviet
aircraft go into the EFT box, rather than remnants. These, presumably,
represent those shot down in air-to-air engagements. But I could be wrong.
-- 
Stephen Graham
graham@cs.washington.edu	 uw-beaver!june!graham
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: gl8f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: Dumb Moves By Game Companies
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:04:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.001743.25722@netcom.com> mhall@netcom.com (Michael Hall) writes:

>GDW's failure to get Imperium victory/appeals stuff "right" the first time
>was not so bad, because it could be patched up, but then they didn't get it
>"right" the second time either with a patch that didn't work, which was
>inexcusable.

In all fairness, you should point out that a minority of players don't
think the game is nearly as unbalanced as the rest think, since most
players don't play the Terran position effectively. I think that the
fix works just fine.
From: jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Fire in the East
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 06:47:51 GMT
 <1992Dec20.184019.10186@athena.mit.edu> <1h7ae3INNbu3@ua.d.umn.edu>
Organization: is sometimes desirable

In article <1h7ae3INNbu3@ua.d.umn.edu>, Kurt Schroeder writes:

> Perhaps to stimulate discussion on the Europa series of games, let me ask
> a question.
> 
> Fire in the East is of course remarkable for the German onslaught at the
> beginning of the game.  The set-up of the Russian forces and the play at the
> beginning can be analyzed from many standpoints, but one principle the 
> Russian player needs to follow is to set up stacks of units which can not be
> over-run by the German player.  Failure to do this will allow the German
> player to break through lines and  penetrate the delaying defense of the
> Russians.  My questions are these:
> 
> 1. How large a stack does the Russian player need in order to guarantee that
> it will not be over-run.  Since the German player 
> needs to attain 10:1 odds to over-run, this question resolves into the
> question:  How large a stack can the German player construct on Game Turn
> One?  60 points? 
> 
> Divisions: 3 x 12-10 Panzer divisions =             36
> Non-divisional units: 3 x 5-10 Pz XX breakdowns =   15
> Artillery: 2 x 5-8 motorized artillery =            10
> 						   ____
> Total                                               61 points

Yes, but you can't put them all together if you use the standard setup.  It will
take a few moves to get them all together.  There is also only one of these
possible at the beginning.

> 
> Can anyone construct a stack which reaches 70 points?

Yes, but it is much later.

> 
> 2.  Is this 60- or 70-point stack attainable everywhere along the front, or
> can the Russian player stack less than 7 points along some portions of the
> front (i.e., south of Pripet marshes)?

See above.

> 
> This problem could probably be solved by analysis, although I have never
> tried.  It probably smacks too much of game mechanics to suit the critics of
> Europa heard on this net, but some of you might have done some analysis along
> these lines.  Has anyone investigated this, or does anyone know of published
> sources of analysis?  It is roughly the Europa equivalent of calculating the
> value of all possible three-move openings in chess.

It is fairly easy for the Soviet to estimate where the "big" stacks can get in
a single move.  He places the larger stacks there and smaller stacks elsewhere.


                                                Jim Pritchett


UUCP:  rwsys.lonestar.org!caleb!jdp
 or    utacfd.uta.edu!rwsys!caleb!jdp
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 07:37:04 -0500 
From: Jeff Rosenfeld <jdr+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Reply-To: jdr@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Titan rules addenda/errata
	<1h5hd2INN7ke@life.ai.mit.edu>
Distribution: world

	Titan rules say that you can make deals in order to speed up the game. 
You may agree to any result except a defender time-out (I don't know why
there is this exception.  These are normally the slowest battles.).
	The only time that our group is likely to make a deal is for a mutual
between 2 small groups.  Occationally, both players think that they can
meet their goals through dealing (ie.  You win for full points if I can
kill the griffon.) but usually, we fight or flee.

Most common battles in order (at CMU):

1) Defender flees
2) Attacker wins
3) Defender wins
4) Agree to mutual
5) Defender wins by time out
6) Attacker concedes
7) Agree to one player winning
8) Defender concedes

Not Jeff R.

"Drop shields -- det"

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: cwk@athena.mit.edu (Chuck Krueger)
Subject: Re: Titan rules addenda/errata
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:27:26 GMT

In article <sfD57kW00VB6Q7bEgF@andrew.cmu.edu> jdr@andrew.cmu.edu writes:
>	Titan rules say that you can make deals in order to speed up the game. 
>You may agree to any result except a defender time-out (I don't know why
>there is this exception.  These are normally the slowest battles.)

Hmm... Seems to me that if my opponent and I want to agree to a time-out 
result we can just put our pieces on the battleboard, out of contact and do
nothing.
From: chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: REALLY good simple non-abstract board games
Date: 23 Dec 1992 08:49:06 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandstorm.berkeley.edu

Any suggestions for simple non-abstract board games that are
quite fun and easy to learn? I'm interested in stuff like Ogre,
Awful_Green_Things_From_Outer_Space, etc, which a person new to
wargames can learn quickly. Emphasis on * fun *...

Chua
+==+
From: d88-cbr@alv.nada.kth.se (Christian Beijner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: WiF: Question about Sweden ressouces
Date: 26 Dec 92 13:03:22 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

In article <2555@cix.cict.fr> david@tls-cs.cert.fr (Vincent David) writes:
>I need some help for a problem with the article 9.5 (5th edition):
>
>"Sweden must provide Germany with all its ressouces per turn. Unless
>they can trace an overland route, Germany must place a CONV marker
>in the Baltic Sea to transport these pionts. Germany receives no
>convoyed ressouces from Sweden in turns in which the Artic Circle
>is experiencing Winter or Severe Winter if the Allies control Oslo,
>Bergen, or Narvik."
>
>So the problem is:
>
>-If Finland is declared in war with the Axis, Germany receives the
>ressource point from Petsamo.
>
>-If Norge is controlled by Germany, except Bergen, Germany receives
>one more point.
>
>So the Axis can trace an overland route from Sweden to Oslo or Helsinki.
>Could Bergen avoid the ressources points from Sweden? And Why?
>
>		Vincent.

Its really quite simple, those resources really exist a lot further north.
There exists a railroad - designed for this purpose - that can carry lots
of iron ore from the north of Sweden to Narvik (Malmbanan). If you want to
you can call Narvik the port of Kiruna. During non-winter turns you could
possibly get the ore to one of the swedish ports in the north of the baltic.
However during winter, they are frozen, and Narvik is not.
The standard trains going south in Sweden couldnt handle this amount of
additional freight.
The allied control rules is merely a way of allowing the german a chance of
getting the ore out by Narvik, hugging the coast with his ships, which would
be impossible if the allies control parts of the coast.
If this rule seems "special" to you, think what would happen if you forced
the german to use a conwoy in the North Sea to get them home.
I think explains the importance of Norway.

Hope this answers your question.

Since I am on the question on Sweden, let me flame that WIF map and the 
CWJ expansion board a bit:
1) Stockholm lies in the artic circle zone, having worse weather than Moscow.
   This is really outrageous.

2) The west and south of Sweden (on the wif map) is covered in woods.
   Thats hilarious. Everyone now that most of this is open plains.
 
Expansion board:
3) There is a mountain range I have never heard of going out to the baltic.

4) They havent added a single city, except those already on the wif map.
   Thats ignorant. It will disallow swedish/finnish train transport north.

5) The expansion board is to big, fitting my wif map teribly.

Chris
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: xbackgam 0.1 is available
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 21:58:31 GMT

I've just put the sources for my X11 backgammon program on an ftp
server:

	/users/grante/XBackgam.tar.Z  on  ftp.cs.umn.edu

I can mail the sources to anybody who wants to give it a try but
doesn't have ftp access.

So far, it's only been tested on a monochrome Sun 4/40 using gcc 2.1
with ANSIfied include files and X11R5 patch level 17.  It uses only
the standard Athena widgets and the backgammon board widget that I
wrote (which is, of course, included in the above tar file).

This is my first Xt application, and my first widget, and I haven't
the faintest idea how portable they are.

Have a happy solstice.


P.S.	

If you have problems, you really ought to go get gcc and X11R5 -- it
might not help, but by them time you get them working I may have fixed
the original problem.  ;)

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  All right, you
Rosemount Inc.                                |degenerates!  I want this
                                              |place evacuated in 20
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |seconds!
From: WARKENTI@UKCC.UKY.EDU (Don Warkentin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: LDB
Date: 30 Dec 92 00:40:37 GMT
Reply-To: "Backgammon strategy" <BKGAMMON@indycms.iupui.edu>


    How does LDB backgammon work?  I am interested in playing you.




                                                    //Don Warkentin
Newsgroups: rec.games.trivia
From: tron@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Tron R.)
Subject: Satchel Paige
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 05:53:36 GMT

Does any of you trivia masters know what Satchel 
Paige's Six Rules of Life are?

Thanks in advance.
Tron
From: lazarus@ug.cs.dal.ca (Chuck Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.trivia
Subject: Re: Vehicles Quiz
Date: 23 Dec 92 02:52:50 GMT
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

In article <1992Dec22.200253.4738@memstvx1.memst.edu> mcsweinberg@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
>                                                 
>15. Name the three real or movie made ships that sank.
>

What on EARTH is this question supposed to mean?!?

						- Chuck 

 _______________________________________ 
|                                       | '..err..of course I suck blood.' 
| "--whether you are quiet and ALIVE or | 'I don't believe you.' 
| quiet and DEAD makes no difference to | 'I've got a straw right here PAL! 
| Cerebus."                             |  You want a demonstration?!'
|       - Cerebus the Aardvark          |                   - The Tick 
|_______________________________________| Chuck Turner -> lazarus@ug.cs.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.trivia
From: seifert@yesac.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Rick.Seifert)
Subject: Re: Twisted Christmas Trivia (ANSWER)
Organization: NCR Corp., Columbia SC
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 14:50:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.212711.823@tandem.com> kirby_dave@tandem.com (Decay) writes:
>
>The names of Santa's ten reindeer are:
>
>   Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, Blitzen,
>   and Rudolph.
>
>   And Olive.  Olive is the "other" reindeer.  As it says in the song, 
>   "...Olive, the other reindeer, used to laugh and call him names..."

I think this man should be hung up and shot! `:-)

MC & HNY anyway!

>
>The same to you, but merry Christmas anyway.
>
>
>  __   ___  ___  ___      | kirby_dave@tandem.com     Tandem ComputersInc.
> /  | /_   /    /__/ /__/ |-----------------------------------------------
>/__/ /__  /__  /  /   /   | "I had one grunch but the eggplant over there"
>                          |                                 -- Roger Price


*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Rick Seifert                                                             |
| NCR Corp., E&M-Columbia            e-mail: rick.seifert@Columbia.NCR.COM |
| 3325 Platt Spring Road              phone: (803) 796-9250 ext. 6587      |
| West Columbia, SC  29170              fax: (803) 739-7317                |
| U.S.A.                                 VP:  VP-632-6587                  |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: mcsweinberg@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.trivia
Subject: *Four*
Date: 1 Jan 93 00:41:49 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

Four or more shows?

hmm.. Did any one firget...

Lucille Ball-
The Lucy Show
I love Lucy 
Here's Lucy
Lucy (I'm sure this lasted 1 season)

______________________________________________________________________________
"Damn, I wish I was your lover,                          R A I
I'd rock you till the daylight comes                Raina Weinberg
make sure you are smiling and warm,          _Memphis State University_
I am everything tonight I'll be your              Memphis, Tn USA
mother do such things to ease your pain
free your mind and you won't be the         MCSWEINBERG@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU
same."   Sophie B. Hawkins
______________________________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: rec.games.trivia
From: st891425@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Andrew Weiskopf)
Subject: Re: Twisted Christmas Trivia (ANSWER)
Reply-To: st891425@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 05:51:56 GMT

Olive...the other reindeer...

However, assuming that- would Olive necessarily be SANTA's reindeer? I 
thought Rudolph was snatched up out of obscurity- the elves sifted through
hundreds of resumes (these positions are in high demand), and...

WHY AM I WASTING MY TIME WITH THIS?

groan....



By the way, it's hard to tell: what is the male/female ratio of Santa's
reindeer? It's clear that Affirmative Action must be a big fan of his...

                            * Santa's Workshop *
                     We do not deny employment on the basis
                     of race, creed, religion, or nose color.



I have a paper to do...

-Andy "rebel without a Claus" Weiskopf
Newsgroups: rec.games.trivia
From: mcbride@ll.mit.edu (Barbara McBride)
Subject: Re: Vehicles Quiz
Originator: mcbride@ll.mit.edu (Barbara McBride)
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory, Lexington MA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 15:06:04 GMT


In article <1992Dec22.200253.4738@memstvx1.memst.edu>, mcsweinberg@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
|>                                                  
|> 				Vechicles Real and Fantasy
|> 
|> 
|> 8. In 10,000 Leagues under the sea what ship did Captain Nemo Travel in.
|> 
|> 
|> Rai.
|> 

	Shouldn't it be 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ?

Babs
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: rec.games.trivia
Subject: Zed's Trivia Quiz #4 Notice
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:17:54 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b1@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Sorry, but the answers for part 4 are (probably) going to be delayed
until after the new year -- there's one question that I have to check
everybody's answers on -- my source might be incorrect, and since I'm
going home for Christmas tomorrow morning, I won't have time to do all
this work.

The answers will probably be posted around 5 January, with part 5 of
the contest coming around 10 January.

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"I should have known it would be bad vodka when all the label said was
'Russian Vodka'."
From: satish@a.chem.upenn.edu (Satish Nair)
Newsgroups: rec.games.trivia
Subject: *FOUR*
Date: 4 Jan 93 00:34:46 GMT
Distribution: rec.games.trivia
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


Has anyone mentioned Mary Tyler Moore?

How about Robert Reed (Brady Bunch, Runaways, The Defenders, Brady Brides)?

satish nair
From: mcsweinberg@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.trivia
Subject: Show Tunes Quiz
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:26:06 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

				Dorsi and Rai's Show Tunes Quiz
    These are songs appearing in Musicals.
    Do NOT post Answers
    Name the musical... Answers will be posted New Years Day.

1. "I sat down feeling desolated."

2. "Little bird little bird in the cinnamon tree."

3. "There was Melinda... they say for sure..."

4. "A hundred million miracles."

5. "Poor Judd is dead a candle lights his head."

6. "When I'm not near the girl I love, I love the girl I'm near."

7. "It's a grand night for singing."

8. "Who will buy my wonderful roses?"

9. "I have often walked down this street before."

10."Papa always said that he married beneath him..."

11."I saw my baby crying hard as babe could cry..."

12."My heart is not the first heart broken."

13."Oh we need a little Christmas right this very minute."

14."Far from the home I love."

15."He is pleased with me my lord and master."

16."Even our piano in the parlour papa bought for 10 cents on the dollar."

17."Have an eggroll Mr Goldstone."

18."Just got back from the windy city.."

19."Luck be a Lady tonight."

20."Have you heard its in the stars."

21."You've got to have heart."

22."There once was a man who loved a women."

23."It's a hard knock life for us."

24."This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius."

25."No wonder she loves him no wonder at all."

Animated Musicals.

26."Never say never whatever you do..."

27."She looked my way, I thought I saw..."

28."Darling it's better down where it's wetter."

29."Someday my prince will come."

30."Put them together and what do you get"
From: dascoser@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (david serchay)
Newsgroups: rec.games.trivia
Subject: I'm Sorry
Date: 29 Dec 92 04:26:55 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

I inadvertantly followed up the messgae and posted my answers to the 
movie quiz.
I am very sory about this and have canceleled the message. I appoligize 
to anyone who saw my answers.

Dascoser