From: bb252@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James L. Brookes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
Subject: Re: Anime, and He May Not
Date: 4 Sep 1992 05:07:38 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


emru@CAM.ORG (Emru Townsend) writes:
 
(article by Marc Elias)
 
[...]
>Japanese animation is not the seamless, perfect artifact that its
>most ardent fans make it out to be.   It has infuriating problems.
 
Sure, and any fan has experienced this.  Ask any Gundam fan about
"Bandai and toys" and you'll get a predictable response.
 
>In fact, to the more moderate animation enthusiast, the human
>cost of these problems is not as evident in the medium itself as
>it is in its most visible disciples, the anime fanatics.
 
Human cost??  I'm somewhat confused by what you mean.  To be blunt,
anime "fanatics" are in general the most intelligent, well dressed,
well behaved people I know.  When I look at Science Fiction fans
I see a much more fringe-type element than I've ever seen
in Anime fandom, for example.
 
[...]
>But what the stereotypical extremist (read: big fan) demands and
>accepts (one would like to say `condones') determines both the
>intention, the content and the ultimate effect of what is
>produced.
 
Let's assume for a minute you are talking about American (or at least
non-Japanese) fandom for a moment.
 
Do you -really- think that what we fans watch makes any difference in
the anime that is produced in Japan??  That is the silliest idea I've
ever heard in my life!  Perhaps what we see over here subtitled is
affected, but I'd be hesitant to go any further than that.
 
[a nice description of animation in general deleted]
 
>It is a powerful way to show people things they might never see
>otherwise. Americans like Disney, Bluth, Bakshi, Avery and Jones
>have set lofty standards for their countrymen that are
>unfortunately rarely equalled. The Japanese animators, on the
>other hand, have made putting work and style into their animation
>almost a national pastime. The Japanese have the best timing, the
>best draughtsmen, the best scope and the best support system in
>the world of animation. The North Americans may be funnier
 
I don't know about you, but I feel there is much more humor in
anime than there is in most american animation.  If you look at the majority
of the cartoons of the last past half-century you find some classics, and
a lot of slap-stick humor that is terribly unoriginal and boring.  And
in the animation of today, this is even more evident than in the past.
 
>Eastern Europeans may be more socially conscious
 
Nausicaa?  Barefoot Gen?  Grave of the Fireflies?
 
[...]
>However, anime fanatics tend to take things too seriously.
 
Yeah, that's me.
 
[...]
[japanese-animated machinery is very complex]
 >The results are often astounding. And yet, as we have
>seen, they refuse to individualize the acting of their
>characters, and character animation by definition is nothing less
>than acting. The Japanese are no less human than North Americans,
>in some cases, probably more so; why won't they breathe life into
>the majority of their people?
 
Where the heck do you get off saying that?  Take a look at any
of the classics which anyone in r.a.a can name, and take a good
look at the acting.  In Nausicaa, Nausicaa is one of the most
convincing young female voice actresses i've EVER heard.  Heck,
look at ANY Miyazaki film and tell me the voice acting isn't
better than Disney.  In Maison Ikkoku, one of my favorite series,
human interaction is taken to a level which no American animation
of any kind has ever delved into!  Look at Tonari no Totoro, which
has the most beautiful depiction of children in anime I have ever
seen before!
 
Just because there is much Anime that falls into the catagory
you mentioned doesn't mean the other side of the coin shouldn't
be mentioned.
 
>An example of a high-visibility anime product that seems to have
>had little or no big-picture thought given to it is a series
>called BUBBLEGUM CRISIS.
 
Agreed.  It's fun to watch, but the storyline is disorganized and
somewhat cluttered.
 
[...]
>When danger strikes, they all put on big robot battle suits and
>fight like well-trained, bloodthirsty mercenaries. This, in the
>world of anime, is a perfectly reasonable concept.
 
Sure, why not?  In Disney, we have a talking beast, a witch, a
mermaid.  Compared to that, women in battlesuits isn't terribly
hard to swallow.  Then, there are those cute little turtles
in ninja outfits, talking robots, and other such nicities.
 
[...] (he didn't like BGC)
>But anime has a desperate relationship to stereotypes
>that gives interested observers plenty of sources from which to
>track the growth of inexcusably bad ideas.
 
I agree with the feeling of your statement, yet I disagree with
the implication that this reliance on stereotyping to the degree
you mention is found in anime alone.
 
>For example, women are so poorly treated in anime that it is next
>to impossible to nail down the main stereotype. Is it the moll
>who, despite being the girlfriend of the lantern-jawed hero,
>isn't officially part of the gang, but can karate kick like
>nobody's business (once someone unties her), and whose main
>function seems to be decolletage and occasionally getting
>kidnapped? Or the teenager who takes a lot of showers with her
>blonde or redhead but otherwise identically buxom friends at the
>space boarding school, and then unleashes savage vengeance upon
>people after school? Is it the spunky tomboy fighter pilot, the
>zipper of her flight suit constantly under incredible strain from
>her massive breasts, who is otherwise just like the guys except
>she can't whip it out and stand at the urinals with them? The
>killer kid sister? The killer rock singer? The lingerie-selling
>vigilante leader?
 
You seem to have an affinitity for what we "anime fanatics" would
call "hentai anime" :-)  Maybe you were so engrossed with watching
these you couldn't find something else to watch.
 
Obviously you never saw any Takahashi TV/manga/OAV/Movies,
or any Miyazaki, Orange Road, Sailor Moon, Yawara! etc etc.
Your loss.
 
>In fact, it seems that the same disease that has affected the
>motion-picture industry has infected the world of anime. Bad
>writing. Artless, brainless, flashy, water-treading formula. If
>we stay within the traditional genres of anime (we're not even
>going to touch anime porno. No one's been able to prove that sex
>is a bad idea yet), this is the same disease that enables one of
>the biggest movie studios in the States to take a superb body of
>imagination called ALIEN and completely rape and disrespect it to
>make a thoroughly unnecessary sequel. Or how about the screenplay
>fiasco called COOL WORLD? BATMAN RETURNS? Almost every other film
>in that genre for as long as we can remember?
 
You can include Disney in those ranks, friend.  Disney is perhaps the
worst offender of them all - covering up old retreads (the stories,
that is) with lovely animation.  They should definitely be
included - virtually everything you have said about stereotyping
exists in Disney as well.
 
>In my view, it is up to the fans, the partisans, the experts, the
>people who know and love anime, who spend their money on it so
>that it can flourish; it is up to these people to politely ask
>those with the energy and talent to produce the animation to
>please, even if it costs more and takes longer, please hire
>someone who can write coherent, imaginative meaningful ideas for
>their animators to bring to life.
 
That has always been somewhat of a pipe dream of mine, there are
many very very good american/european stories that have been written
which would make incredible adaptations with the Japanese
animators' visual style and flair.
 
>It is up to the fans to support the anime projects with genuine thought
>and sophistication to them, and to openly ignore those that persist
>in insulting their intelligence.
 
  I just don't think you realize that we, the (with some exceptions)
WESTERN anime fans don't have any sort of pull at all with the big
producers of anime.  None at all.
 
>If, instead of taking what they are offered and
>pronouncing it good simply because it is what they've been
>offered, the people who love anime ask for more, then the entire
>world would be forced to recognize and respect anime as an art
>form worth the fanatical pride of its fans.
 
Yeah, than we can all move to this great little island in the
Atlantic called Utopia - it's a really great place, a little wet
however...
 
====Mini Review====
 
If I knew nothing about anime, I would come away from this article with
a very negative impression of it.  The view you are giving your readers
is regrettably one-dimensional.  According to this article, all anime
can be lumped into one of a few catagories: flashy but lacking in story,
sexually explicit drivel, or 1/2 hour toy commercials.  While I agree
that there is quite a bit of anime that falls into one of or a combination
of these three catagories, I find it interesting that you can't seem to
mention anything else.  Perhaps you are too used to American animation,
which is much easier to catagorize in such a universal fashion.
 
===================
 
>Emru Townsend             | Lucy: Do you think anybody ever really changes?
>Fido: 1:167/133           | Linus: I've changed a lot in the last year.
>emru@cam.org  BIX: switch | Lucy: I meant for the better.
-- 
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|           James Brookes           | Oggnet:  House of Games, User #209      |
|``What, me worry?'' - A. E. Neuman | Usenet:  bb252@cleveland.freenet.edu    |
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