From: selvakum@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering)
Subject: Re: Kamban, VaLLuvan and KaNNadhaasan
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:34:31 GMT

In article <BtnztC.BzD@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, selvakum@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering) writes:
> In article <9208272123.AA01028@cec1.wustl.edu>, sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
> > Natarajan Sureshbabu writes :
> > ---------------------------
> > > kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi) writes:
> > 
> > >>>   "yeNNarum nalathinAL inaya niRuzhi
> > >>>    kaNNodu kaNNinaik kavvi ondRiyondRu
> > >>>    uNNavum nilaipeRAthu uNarvum ondRida
> > >>>    aNNalum nOkinaan, avaLum nOkinaaL"
> > >>>
> > >>>   kamban
> > 
> > >>exchanged)
> > >>
> > >>"kaNNodu kaNNinai nOkkokin vaaichsoRkaL
> > >>yenna payanum ila."
> > >>
> > >>.
> > 
> > >ThiruvaLLuvar also talks about the opposite. i.e., the 
> > >lovers do not see each other eye to eye.
> > 
> > > yAnOkkun kAlai nilannOkkum yanOkkakkal
> > > thanOkki mella nagum.
> > > Bye
> > > Babu.
> > 
> >    Allow me to correct the errors that you have made in
> > the above kuRaL. The correct one using K.Srinivasan's
> > ADAMI transliteration scheme is,
> >  
> >   `yaan-nOkkum kaalai nilan-nOkkum nOkkaakkaal
> >    thaan-nOkki mella nagum.'
> > 
> >    The usage of the word `nagum' may be thought about.
> >  I think that `avaL nagum' is grammatically incorrect.
>                  ^^^^^^^^^^
> >  The correct form is `avaL nagaiththaaL'. `nagum' is
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >  used for `onRan paal' [ adhu, idhu, mudhaliyana.]
> >  May be, that such grammatical rules are relaxed for
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >  poems. 
>   ^^^^^^^
> 
>           Please allow me to observe that ThiruvaLLuvar
>           *does not* say 'avaL nagum'. If you read the 
>           kuRaL carefully, you can perceive that VaLLuvar
>           means "kaathaliyin uLLam" or her deeper feeling
>           and not mere external facial "nagai". There is
>           a deeper import and a more sublime love-feeling
>           in vaLLuvar's words. I don't think vaLLuvar made
>           any grammatically incorrect thodar in this kuRaL
>           NOR is it any poetic licence. I honestly feel that
>           vaLLuvar conveys a more sublime deeper love-feeling
>           that's all. 

   I just wanted to add that in the VaLLuvar's kuRaL the subject is
   not explicitly stated vis-a-vis "nagaum", therefore it is not
   right to infer that "avaL nagum" was implied. uLLam( innuNarvil
   kaLikkum kaathal uLLam) nagum is grammatically correct. The subject
   corresponding to the predicate ( verb) "nagum" is NOT explicitly
   given by VaLLuvar and it is one of the beauty of this kuRaL rather
   than the flaw ! 
   
   I wrote the rest of the following involving colloquial expressions 
   etc. ( which I'm not sure whether it is "grammatically" correct - 
          because i vaguely remember that
          there is some grammatical rule that allows to address a child as
          ithu, athu, in view of its "muthirchchiyinmai" ( lack of maturity or 
          not mature enough to be considered as uyar_thiNai) 
  to bring out an implicit connection between expressions involving
  "improper" gender/class and the feeling of affection. Often a new
  feeling emerges when words are transposed as in poems etc. - this
  is possibly similar to that ?
> 
>           In colloquial Tamil "thambi vanthathu"
>           ( thambi came) is regularly used in many circles 
>           to show the affectionate way of saying "thambi
>           vanthaan". addressing children, God and loved ones
>           as "athu" "ithu" is very common. Referring to a girl
>           or a young man the elders often say "athukku enna
>           theriyum"  "athai ENdaa vambukku izhukkkiRaai" and
>           and such expressions. Even in German
>           language where there are separate words for respectful
>           "you" ( Sie) and informal or no-special-respect "you"
>           (du), the no-special-respect "you" (du) is used 
>           for the loved ones. Addressing a girl "vada" =come!
>           and to a boy as "enna machchi" are other examples of 
>           showing affection. 
> 
> >     Kaviyarasu KaNNadhaasan copied this kuRaL in his song
> >  `nEtru varai nee yaarO, naan yaarO
> >   inRu mudhal nee vERO, naan vERO..'
> >  to write the lines,
> >   
> >  ` unnai naan paarkkum pOdhu maNNai nee paarkkinRaayE
> >    viNNai naan paarkkum pOdhu ennai nee paarkkinRaayE..'.
> >  
> >                                                 S.Pandian
> >                                          sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu
> >  
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------	
> >         isaindhaal nam iruvarin swaramum namadhaagum
> >         dhisai vEraayinum yaazh-isai aarugaL
> > 	mughilaay mazhaiyaay pozhivadhu-pOl 
> >         isai, nam isai..
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>           anbudan
>           Selva Selvakumar



         I'm sorry I didn't say all this in the first min_urai itself.
         
         anbudan 
         Selva Selvakumar
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