From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Subject: Re: Did someone ask about misogynist pro-life loons?
Followup-To: talk.abortion
Keywords: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 01:18:41 GMT

[talk.religion.misc deleted from the subject line]

In article <nyikos.715733663@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
#In <Bu43LD.71q.2@cs.cmu.edu> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
#
##In article <nyikos.715650400@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
###In <lacgvmINN56h@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM# emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes:
#
####As a third degree Wiccan priest who leads a coven of my own I rebuke
####your statement that Wicca is a subset of the feminist movement.
###
###Are you saying that it is impossible for a male to be part of the 
###feminist movement?
#
##No, he's saying that Wicca is not a subset of the feminist 
##movement.  Do you really have that much trouble understanding
##the written word?
#
#No, I merely assumed the connection between the first part of his sentence
#and the second part was different than it actually was.  I was hoping that,
#by drawing attention to the fact that he was male, he was thereby trying
#to refute the statement that Wicca is a feminist movement.  Now all I
#have to show for my pains is a rebuke and not even an outright denial.
#And no clue as to why Wicca is not feminist.

He didn't say that Wicca wasn't feminist.  He said that his
religion is not a subset of the feminist movement.  There is
a difference in the two statements.  

I really think that you are capable of understanding this
difference, Nyikos.  Eric said *exactly* what he meant.

###Anticipating a Yes answer, let me add: are men barred from 
###membership in NOW?
#
##Of course not.  Many men are feminists.  You can recognize them
##by their actions - they treat women as equals, and work to
##guarantee that no one is discriminated against because of
##their gender.  They don't refer to women as "bitches," nor
##do they claim that there are no women engineers when there
##certainly are.
#
#All of which applies to me.  I know you think that unlimited access
#to abortion is the only way to keep women from being discriminated
#against by their gender.  But you see, I feel discriminated against
#by not having the possibility of being pregnant.

I also think that you can recognize the difference between
biology and behavior.  Your use of "discriminated" is, as
you put it, non-standard.

#	"If men could be pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament"
#				--Pro-abortion slogan
#	"If men could have abortions, pregnancy would be a sacrament"
#				--Peter Nyikos



If men could get pregnant 
Abortion would be a sacrament
If men needed choices 
They'd say their right was heaven-sent
The born-agains would change their tune
As would the Ku Klux Klan
And pro-choice headquarters
Would move to the Vatican

If men could get pregnant
If men could get pregnant
If men could get pregnant
What changes we would see

If Henry Hyde got pregnant
Abortions would all be safe and free
The national budget 
Would have this new priority
Billions for health care
And not one cent for bombs
Each month our clinics would receive
A check from the Pentagon

If men could get pregnant
If men could get pregnant
If men could get pregnant
What changes we would see

If Judge Rehnquist got pregnant
He'd be a judicial activist
He'd find fundamental rights
That our forefathers simply missed
Among politicians
Pro-choice would have no foe
And our next U.S. president
Would surely be Jane Roe

If men could get pregnant
If men could get pregnant
If men could get pregnant
What changes we would see
And our spiritual leader
Would be the Church Lady

(And she shall reign forever and ever Hallelujah)

- lyrics by Ginny Hildebrand

Susan