HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: valluri@cco.caltech.edu (Siddhartha Valluri)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Appreciate some info
Date: 23 Dec 92 03:35:51 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

1) Where can I get the FAQ
	[MODERATOR: Right here, once its complete ... (but YES folks,
	 the FAQ *system* is under test now.  It really seems to work...)]

2) I am planning to buy a SIG 226 what is a good price for

      a) SIG 226
      B)  "      + SIGLITES
      C)  "      +   "      + K-KOTE

     ALL NIB

And finally is there any need/necessity to get the k-kote option?
Does Sig have a 'parkerised' version.

  Thanks a lot in advance.


  sid.
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hi-Power mag safety
Date: 31 Dec 92 01:26:00 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:

#For me, the Browning High Power is a combat pistol _par excellence_, 
...

	A lefty I know wants to buy his first centerfire pistol for a
"fun gun" for use by himself and kids.  His two tenative qualifications 
are 1) that it have a manual safety, 2) it has controls for lefties, 
manual safety at the very least.
He also indicated that he prefers SA.

The three that popped in mind are the Browning, the CZ-85, and the
Firestar (if it's not too small for him).

The Firestar is SA, and may(?) have the capability to switch the
mag release, but not the slide release.  

The CZ-85 has ambi C&L safety and slide release but is DA.

The Browning standard with the molded grips seems like a good
starter gun and very good gun in general, but I have a concern:

1)  The standard has safety on one side only.  What models have the
ambi safety, and how much extra work/cost is it to order an ambi
safety for the standard model? 
------------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking that the most accident proof first pistol ought to have
a hammer drop safety, but how many decent guns have this?

I was thinking about the Radom again.  Single action with grip safety
and a decocker.  That seems like a pretty good idea actualy.   Ready
whenever you need it, easy to to "de-ready" w/o risk of AD.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: rps@hoqax.att.com (Robert P Schwendel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Mossberg 500 12 gauge
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:59:34 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Well, the other night I bought one of those "gotta have" guns. In
this case it was a Mossberg 500 12 gauge, 20" Persuader model. Now
that the excitement level has calmed down a bit, I was wondering
if there are any aftermarket or OEM barrels available in longer
lengths (26", 28", 30") that would make the gun more suitable for
skeet/trap shooting. As I know next to nothing about shotguns (so
why did I buy one?!), any info is very appreciated.

One other thing: any ideas on sneaking it past my wife into the house?

Happy holidays,
Bob
From: rr@dymaxion.ns.ca (Rod Regier)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: re: 9mmx19 powder choice?
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:07:18 GMT

My favorite 9mmx19 powder is HS-6 (or its almost twin Winchester 540).

Used it with bullet weights 88gr to 158gr, excellent performance.

I find I can easily duplicate any reasonable factory loading
performance with this powder.

You get a little unburned powder residue, but nothing gross.

Check out Speer #11 for load data, I found it to be excellent.

--
Rod Regier, Software Development                     bus: (902)422-1973
Dymaxion Research Ltd.,                              fax: (902)421-1267
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada B3J 1R2            Internet: rr@dymaxion.ns.ca
From: brad%slammer.UUCP@mathcs.emory.edu (Brad Isley)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt or Springfield 1911A1
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:49:21 GMT
Organization: Just me & my computers

In article <1992Dec22.230807.3306@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:
#
#The whole argument here is that when you send a .45 to a smith for an
#accuracy job the smith is promising to send it back shooting to a
#particular level of accuracy.  If you send a frame/slide combo that

That makes sense.  Now that you put it that way, I understand.
What I was responding to was something like:

	"I know a smith who refuses to work on brand-x pistols."  

The phrase "work on" actually meant "accurizing(sp?) to a <certain level>."
What you folks relly meant was:

	"I know a smith who refuses to do an accuracy job on a <brand-x>."

BTW: Got my Springfield "worked on" with no guarantee of accuracy and
managed to shoot 5 into a 3" group at 25 yds freestanding.  I stoped after
the first try so I wouldn't spoil it!  That might not be anything to brag
about, but it's LOTS better than I thought I could do!  They all went 8"
high (the slide is now being milled to lower the rear sight to match the
front sight height).

Got a Glock 23 for Christmas.  YOW!  I like it!
-- 
emory!slammer!brad   (Brad Isley)
+1 404 841-5018 Work			 Nopottopeein: "Howzit Goink?"
+1 404 925-9663 Home			  The gang: "Fine, just fine."
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Air Guns
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:07:21 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <BzxJD6.Eq1@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
#
#	I am looking to buy an airgun to improve my
#	marksmanship, I don't want to have to drive
#	tons of miles to a range - I'd rather plink
#	awy in the backyard.
#
#	Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions
#	that won't break the bank and give a reasonable
#	performance [I am not after match grade as this
#	will be used outside].
#
#	Also, if it is possible, I would like to buy one made
#	in the US, but that is a *low* consideration if
#	there are less than 5 makers or so.

  I came across an interesting possibility.  Neal Johnson 
(Gunsmithing, Inc., 111 Marvin Dr. Hampton, VA 23666-2636)
takes a Daisy Model 717 and modifies the trigger to make
the sear engagement adjustable and so the trigger can be 
adjusted very near 500 grams.  The last price list I have
is from Sept. 1991, but their price then was only $73.95
(with left-handed grips available for another $10.)  The
catalog calls this "probaby the best value for the serious
beginner".  They also sell a bunch of RWS(Diana) and Feinwerkbau
models.

--henry schaffer
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt or Springfield 1911A1
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:47:58 GMT
Organization: russ at home in Albuquerque New Mexico

In article <1992Dec21.194526.992@slammer.UUCP> brad%slammer.UUCP@mathcs.emory.edu (Brad Isley) writes:
#In article <34686@adm.brl.mil> sporay@adm.brl.mil (Ralph Sporay) writes:
##If he's objective then he probably is working on Norincos and Auto-
##Ordnance. Not a good <attitude>.
#
#I take it that this means Norincos and Auto-Ordinace are junk?
#(Never seen any.)  If so, I can't see how an objective attitude would
#make someone want to work on junk guns.  The point I was trying to make
#is that both Springfield and Colt make very nice 45's.  Any gunsmith
#who disagrees is either keeping something secret from the rest of the
#world or just has a grudge.

The whole argument here is that when you send a .45 to a smith for an
accuracy job the smith is promising to send it back shooting to a
particular level of accuracy.  If you send a frame/slide combo that
(at least in the past) couldn't be made to hold that accuracy, then
the smith is justified in turning down work on that gun.  As I
understand it, the Norinco *might* have this problem (if the M14
problems follow into the 1911A1) and the Auto-Ord does have this
problem.  The Colt and Springfield don't have this problem, and most
if not all reputable smiths will accurize these handguns.

BTW: I can pick up a few of the new production 1911A1 Colts at $375 -
anyone know what a good wholesale price on these is?  I know that they
were picked up from a large distributor at his price + $5 to make a
minimum price break, and that the break was pretty good.  I'm betting
I could knock the price down to $350 without trouble... would that be
close to wholesale?  (local taxes would knock the price up to 375
right away again).

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food
From: emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AKMs
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:18:02 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <9212181355.AA11837@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#
##Also, I remember something about FFLs having to notify BATF
##if you buy more than one gun in a five-day period---is this
##true?  Just wondering.  We've got some 30 shopping days
##till "Clinton."
#
#This is for handguns only - rifles purchases are not affected.

Moral, spread the wealth, don't make all your purchases at one
time at one dealer.

Gary
From: bellcore!torque.bae.bellcore.com!sjs@uunet.UU.NET (Stephen Szymanski)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Auto Ordinance .45
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:49:58 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research


Does anyone know what the story is with the Auto Ordinance .45?
It seems somewhat inexpensive for a .45 handgun.  

Sorry for asking this is it has already been discussed, but
someone I know is interested.

Thanks!

Steve

-- 
******************************************************************************

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed herein are solely my own and are not shared by Bellcore
nor any of its owner companies.

******************************************************************************

Steve Szymanski 
Bellcore 				RRC-1E222
444 Hoes Lane				(908)699-5026
Piscataway, NJ  08854			sjs@bae.bellcore.com
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Cartridges needing identification
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:07:39 GMT
Organization: russ at home in Albuquerque New Mexico

I've got in my hand some cartridges that I'd like to identify.  They're
sort of different in that they're plastic and .308 caliber.

They're blue, with a blue plastic bullet.  The bullet seems to have a
lot bearing surface and is made with the case (connected, not
inserted).  The powder is a small flake powder at about a 50%
capacity.  The base of the bullet is copper or a copper washed brass,
and the headstamp is "DAG  7.62x51". The primer is nickel and is
sealed with a green lacquer.

I'm hoping that someone out there will have an idea just what this is,
and what it might have been designed for...

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   russ@bbx.basis.com, bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: airgun lubricant
Date: 23 Dec 92 03:35:49 GMT
Organization: Sun

In article <1992Dec23.005914.24603@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> evore@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Eric J Vore) writes:
#
#     On a somewhat unrelated note: I have found that some lubricants will 
#"diesel" when their vapor is compressed by the piston.  This is probably a good
#way to ruin an expensive airgun over time, but it does have the effect of 
#greatly incereasing the power of your air rifle!

Not a Good Idea.  It *will* trash your spring-piston airgun, and not
necessarily "over time".

Try to look for chamber lubricants that don't tend to diesel as much,
and after lubing (say, maybe once a year or so, unless it *really*
needs it sooner), store the rifle muzzle-down overnight to let excess
lube run out.

--
-------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give away      |
| to everybody else and have none left for yourself.  |
|------------------------ Dieter the car salesman-----|
From: bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm cheapo car backup
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:40:15 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, hruo@ncrclm.clemsonsc.NCR.COM (Hiro Ruo) says:

#anyone have prior experience with the ASTRA?  it's supposed to be a clone of
#the SIG, but what about quality?  i don't necessarily need a gun with the same

(Since I think I was the one who reccomended the Astra A-100, this won't be
much of a second opinion, but I'm sure you'll get others)

This gun (A-90 .45 in my case) is very accurate and reliable.  It can do
tiny (~1") groups 25 yds.   I don't know what else you could be looking
for.   There is no pistol in its price range ($260-290 whsl) that beats
it in quality, imo.

It's nicer than the Tauruses, Rugers and S&Ws, and about anything 
I can think of offhand.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Cartridges needing identification
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:36:21 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:

#I've got in my hand some cartridges that I'd like to identify.  They're
#sort of different in that they're plastic and .308 caliber.

#They're blue, with a blue plastic bullet.

	Could this be the infamous "rubber bullet" so favored in the
Middle East of late?  Despite numerous press reports, I've yet to hear
a bit of detail on these things.  Anybody know, or have details?

	The won't work on a perp, but they might make the neighborhood
dog reconsider strewing your trash about your property every night.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "Are you *SURE* he's worth a Harley-Davidson?" -- my grandmother  >
< to my girlfriend, about me.  "I'd better not say" -- my girlfriend >
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .380 Ballistics (was Re: .380 Bersa Quality)
Date: 31 Dec 92 01:25:54 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:

##	~95 gr at ~850-900 fps.  ~180 ft-lbs.   Better than .22 or .32,
##but wimpier than anything else (except for that one cursed caliber .25

#  Hmmph!  The ".32" includes the .32 H&R Magnum which has factory ammo
#85-95 gr at 1100-1030 fps.  230-225 ft-lbs. 

	Yeah, "factory rated" at 1100-1030 fps.   Just like Rem's "1500
	fps" 88 gr 9mm that's really ~1370 fps.  .32 H&R is a "magnum" 
	in name only, imo, and a cartridge w/o a purpose.  They should 
	have just called it ".32 S&W Long +P"

	There is nothing you can do with a .32 H&R and not .38 Spl.
	Even the non+P 110 gr .38 beats .32 H&R.

#  However I do agree with you about the .25 ACP which has 
#35 - 50 gr at 900 - 760 fps.  63 - 65 ft-lbs.

	Yeah, I understand why Browingng chose to develop it, the fear
	that rimfire ignition was not reliable enough for a SA self 
	defense gun, but it stinks for that purpose, and the fact that 
	there is still a market for it and the sleazy little chunks of 
	pot-metal (Clayton C(tm)) it's chambered for is a sad
	commentary on consumer taste.

Jim D
From: ajberg@Athena.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: NRA-ILA bbs
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:00:10 GMT

I recently say an ad in American Rifleman for NRA-ILA bbs.  I am contemplating
signing up--its only $15--but I noticed that the phone number is long distance
for me and most of the rest of the country.  Has anyone used this service and
might want to comment on what it offers/how good it is?

What I really want to know is can it be reached through any network?  The
$15 fee seems like a good way to contribute to NRA-ILA.  Long distance
phone bills don't give me the same warm feeling inside.

For those who haven't seen the ad, its called "Gun Talk"and is set up for the exclusive use of NRA members.  You can apparently
join by dialing in, 703-719-6406 and signing up on-line, or by calling
1-800-gun-talk.

Aaron Berg
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Air Guns
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:49:26 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign


	I am looking to buy an airgun to improve my
	marksmanship, I don't want to have to drive
	tons of miles to a range - I'd rather plink
	awy in the backyard.

	Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions
	that won't break the bank and give a reasonable
	performance [I am not after match grade as this
	will be used outside].

	Also, if it is possible, I would like to buy one made
	in the US, but that is a *low* consideration if
	there are less than 5 makers or so.

THANKS!

-- 
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         | For a mere $50 these personal  | I will be gone: |
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | opinions can also be yours!    | 20 Dec - 4 Jan  |
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
From: brian@pdx.csd.mot.com (Brian Vandewettering)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Interstate Sales
Date: 31 Dec 92 01:25:58 GMT
Organization: Motorola, Beaverton, OR


I've located a rifle that I would like to buy.  The only problem is that
the seller is out of state.  I don't want to send my money sight unseen
and the seller doesn't want to ship the rifle without getting paid first.

Obviously we will need to go through FFL dealers on both ends but how 
should we insure that both parties are protected?

-brian
-- 
"It cannot be presumed that any clause in the Constitution is intended to
be without effect..."

- Chief Justice John Marshall, Marbury v. Madison, 1803
From: post@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (David Post)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Appreciate some info
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:01:57 GMT

Jerry Hollombe on SIG slides corroding:
 >}And finally is there any need/necessity to get the k-kote option?

 >There have been rumors of rust problems with non-K-koted SIGs.  My skin
 >chemistry is particularly corrosive, so it seemed like cheap insurance.

I know the feeling.  Such an expensive gun and it rusts so easily.

SIG has a model with a nickel plated ( looks like electroless ) slide.  Is
the plating on those thick enough to alleviate the corrosion problems?  Does
anyone have any experience?

David Post  davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post
From: towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silver Soldering
Date: 21 Dec 92 23:59:44 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Dec17.230317.28404@btree.uucp>, btree!andy@UCSD.EDU (Andy Bosik) writes...
#Hi! I heard a while ago somewhere that You can
#"Silver-Solder" a flash hider perminently to
#a barrel (As on a CAR-15 type rifle).
#I was wondering,is this the same type of 
#"silver-solder" that can be bought at any
#Rat-Shack? Or is this a speacial heavy-duty
#grade?


 No it is not something you can get a radio shack and yes its a heavy grade 
industrial type solder. It takes approximately 1200 degrees to melt so it 
isn't something you can do with a propane torch.
From: bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1911 operation
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:07:44 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1h4rioINN57f@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar) writes:
#
[ Very good description of one-handed decocking of 1911 deleted for brevity ]
#

Believe it or not, as I understand it, this was an intentional design
feature of the 1911. It was intended to allow one-handed decocking of the 
1911 while mounted on a horse (i.e. in cavalry (sp?) units). I wonder if
more than one trusty steed has bit it due to accidental discharge? :-)

I guess we should remember than San Juan hill and the Phillipine
campaign were still fresh in military planners minds during the 
trials which resulted in the 1911's adoption. Although, the early days
of WWII still saw some use of cavalry (sp?) units in Europe. 

I have nothing but admiration for anyone who can accurately fire a 1911 
(or, indeed, any other firearm) while controlling their steed. Training 
the horses must have been something.  Also, if one's horse is startled, 
I can attest that the first thing they tend to do is rear on their hind legs. 
Of course, the natural reaction of the rider at that point is to reach 
with the off hand for the reins (presuming that the reins are probably already in
the left hand) or saddle (horn) for better balance (i.e to hang on). If one 
has a live 1911 in hand when grabbing for the reins/saddle with the off 
(but 1911 occupied) hand, odds are good that Trigger will meet his 
demise via the trigger. 

You're right that one handed decocking of a 1911  is a bit tricky to do 
properly (and unless it were really necessary, I would avoid this 
method of decocking a 1911 with a loaded chamber).            
-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's

        "If it's in the paper it must be true!" --- D. Doright
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Lee Crafton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: NEW Soviet Armor and Helmet for sale.
Date: 2 Jan 93 23:31:53 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes:

#In article <9212290458.aa15193@s.s.ms.uky.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
##I have a friend with the following for sale:
##A NEW Soviet battle helmet (armor) with a bullet-proof 3/4" lexan (like)
##face shield. It also has KGB in the serial number. He wants $500 for it.

#  Frankly this sounds as riot gear. The KGB marking doesn't contradict this
#since the KGB handled 'interior disturbances'.
#-bertil-

   Hmm, I guess thats possible. But he made it very clear that both were
   "full-auto proof". Would riot gear have a bullet-proof face-shield?
   I was thinking that somewhere there's someone that would like to have
   these items. :)
From: weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: light .44 Magnum loads?
Date: 21 Dec 92 23:59:41 GMT



I don't understand something I read in my re-loading manuals.  I want to
load up some .44 Special class loads in .44 Magnum cases for target
practice, using jacketed bullets.

Looking through the Speer and Sierra reloading manuals, I read NOT to load
44 magnum jacketed bullets lighter than the minimum recommended load.
For example, a 240 gr jacketed bullet can be loaded to around 10.5 to 11.5 gr
of W-231, but no less.  But looking at the same bullet in the 44 Special 
loading, it is backed up by around 6 gr of W-231.

So if I can load it with 6 gr in a .44 Special case, why can't I load the 
same bullet with 6 gr in a .44 magnum case?

The same warnings exist for 38 Special/357 Magnum loading data.


BTW, a while back I asked for everyone's favorite .44 Magnum loads
and powders and general net wisdom on loading the .44 Magnum.  I plan on 
posting a summary after the new year.  If anyone out there would still like to 
contribute to net wisdom on .44 Magnum loading, E-mail me before 1/5/93.
(I would have already posted a summary if I wern't working so much
_uncompensated_ overtime lately... :-(  ).

Thanks,

-- Dan

------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Weed                             weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov
McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Co. - Houston
          "My comments are my own, not my employer's"