HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: The Doctor is...
Date: 9 Nov 92 15:42:00 GMT
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov9.064626.12528@wam.umd.edu>, mrmuon@next01cville.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins) writes...
>Oh what the Hell,
>My theory:
>The Doctor is not Rassilon, Omega, or anyone from ancient Gallifrey.
>However The Hermit / Cho'Je Rimpoche / K'anpo is in fact "the other". He  
>lived out his exeedingly extended life in seclusion in the mountains of  
>southern Gallifrey and trained the Doctor into his exceptional skills  
>knowing that this would lead him into the life which the Doctor eventually  
>leads. The Doctor is thus the chosen successor of the knowledge of ancient  
>Gallifrey.
>As I say, a theory. (This is badly written 'cause I don't feel like  
>fussing)

	Very good theory though.  If we're going to take Aaronovitch's
novelization of "Remembrance" as canon (and that's impossible, because he
totally butchers the origins of UNIT, but for the sake of this group,
we will), he says that the 3rd Time Lord in those flashback scenes would
be forgotten in the future.  The Doctor was obviously never forgotten;
however, K'Anpo was ... he just moved to Earth and flirted with Sarah Jane.
Since he was the Doctor's guru, that's a very good idea.
	Other ideas might be The War Chief (although I REALLY doubt this, it's
fun to bring up his name again), and Prof. Chronotis from "Shada", another
Time Lord scholar who retired incognito to Earth.

							Jason Miller


>--
>Eli Hawkins : mrmuon@wam.umd.edu
>"But just because because people aren't real doesn't mean that you can't  
>talk to them."
>      - 'the Hermit'  - Timewyrm: Revelation
From: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: xx
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:25:25 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Nov5.4153.13801@dosgate> "daniel bishop" <daniel.bishop@canrem.com> writes:
>I am the Master.  You will obey me.

We are the borg.  Resistance is futile.  You will be assimilated.
ASSIMILATE!  ASSIMILATE!  ASSIMILATE!!!
From: morgans@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Seventh Doc Quality
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:15:49 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <torresce.721421522@craft.camp.clarkson.edu>, torresce@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Carlos E. Torres) writes:

> To me Ace isn't real b'cse of her reactions to things.  For example, she is 
> supposed to be human and yet when she sees Daleks or other creatures whom she 
> encounters for the first time, she hardly shows any fear.   This to me is 
> unrealistic.  

I guess the script writers had her act the way she did, based upon her 
experiences - remember she wasn't a foriegner to aliens since she had been 
stuck on Iceworld for long some time, at least long enough to get a job.


Quite frankly if I want to see emotion, I would
> rather see Tegan.  Although she just displays them - and doesn't confront/
> solve some hidden skeletons in her closet.  But as I said before, I like to
> watch the program for a conflict involving the Doctor and not a mere
> companion of his.  

Actually they handled Tegan quite well - it was sort of nice to see someone say 
- "Dammit, I just saw a bunch of people get wiped out by Daleks, I am not 
going to forget it and go blissfully off with you Doctor, it just isn't fun 
anymore!"  Sort of makes you wonder about WHY some of these people chose to 
stay with the Doctor, when they had opportunities to leave - in a real 
world the therapists would have been making a fortune on treating these 
people for all of the traumas that they went through.

Siobahn (Shabang) Morgan
morgans@iscsvax.uni.edu

Shall there be a Usenet meeting at Visions?  Be there or be rectangular.
From: GGPERRY@NUACVM.ACNS.NWU.EDU (ggreg)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: complex stories
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:57:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: NUACVM.1689D9A0E.GGPERRY
Organization: Northwestern University

yes, i do love the mood and the characters on blakes's 7.  people with
both good and bad sides.  some even approaching dispicable!  there's
something you'd never see on STNG, where everybody is either pure good
or pure evil.  how lame. one of the few interesting characters on STNG,
"Q" (who i think is an obvious Master ripoff) while entertaining and more
interesting than the regular crew, is never very threatening, and always
never crosses that line into pure evil, like the master.  lame lame lame.
and the scope of dr. who stories i think is great, even with the budgetary
restrictions.  they are not limited by their imagination, which is the most
important factor.  even when something is lame on dr. who, at least they try.
for instance on some of the monsters, even when they suck, at least they
usually make a full body suit or try something imaginative, even if it is
a failure.  hell, except for the borg on STNG, all their aliens usually
have clay or putty on their foreheads/eyebrows/bridge of nose!  give me
a break!  how pathetic!  especially in light of the fact that this is a
very big budgeted show.  like i said before, it's not how much money, it's
how much imagination.  imagine dr. who with the wasted budget of STNG!
finally some effects and visuals that match it's script/acting/imagination
quality.  but then again, they've allready pulled off some amazing sfx on
dr.who allready, especially since the later baker years on...as well as
red dwarf/hitchhikers guide/blake's 7.  it must be a british thing.  even thoug
h the storys/characters weren't outstanding, space:1999 had a great existential
mood to it that i still love to this day, something that most of the bbc shows
listed above also have in common.  hell, red dwarf has more mood and feeling to
it than STNG, and it's a comedy!  STNG is so sterile, so clean, everything
about it is spic and span, including the characters.  whoops, i'm on a rant
again.  you'll have to pardon me.  i feel like a lone survivor amongst most
people i know, defending brit sf againest lame-ass american sci-fi.  not that
i'm biased, caused i loved the outer limits, and this babylon 5 show has
potential, and max headroom too. (or was that british?)  rant off.
 
                                           ggreg
From: "dale clayton" <dale.clayton@canrem.com>
Subject: colin baker poll
Reply-To: "dale clayton" <dale.clayton@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:59:59 EST

 Bruce M. Crawford asked:
 -----------------------

-> What is the general opinion of Colin Baker's version of the Doctor?

  Near awful. I just couldn't get into his portrayal at all. He just
wasn't of the same character (not to be confused with personality) as
any other Doctor. Too many established elements were missing. So
henceforth, my opinion is that CB's Doctor - wasn't. And then there was
Peri - the most annoying companion ever (moreso than Mel, IMhO). Put the
two together and what do you have? Hiatus and sackings.   ----
 I really believe that JNT didn't have a clue at times. Why didn't they
cancel him.

Regards,
Dale Clayton
-----------------------
dale.clayton@canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 12 Nov 1992 15:57:49 EST
From: <IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: shada?

  Has anyone ever seen the "incomplete" episode of the fourth Doctor,
  entitled "Shada"?  I believe it was written by Douglas Adams, and
  that It couldn't be released due to a strike at the BBC.  I would
  also like to know if a novellization was ever published for this
"missing link".....

S.E. Warner
From: ph9991_manfr@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Seventh Doc Quality
Date: 7 Nov 92 03:53:57 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - River Falls

> 
> I did consider the racist element in "Talons," which is (relevance!) a
> result of the non-pc times.  It's also a fantasy situation.  As a bisexual,
> I was not offended by Basic Instinct merely because it was just a fantasy,
> and not presented as reality by any stretch of the imagination.  "Talons" is
> not my favorite story, but I would hardly say it "drags."  It's typical
> Robert Holmes stuff and is quite rich.  I suppose compared to fluff like the
> atrocious "Delta and the Bannermen" it drags.
> As for "Time Monster," which is (again) not my favorite episode either,
> well, nobody's perfect.  I liked the way characters played off the Master in
> it, however.
> Suppose I throw some of my preferred episodes at you: "City of Death,"
> "Keeper of Traken" right through to "Earthshock" (noting particularly the
> sublime "Black Orchid"), "Enlightenment," "Curse of Peladon," etc.?
> 
> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Andrew D. Simchik

"Talons" can also be forgiven for accurately portraying the times...
Victorian era England was full of such racist attitudes.  (Modern England,
and come to that, anywhere else, isn't a lot better)  And the Doctor
does treat Li H'Sen and most of the others as equal as he has treated
other humans, and they were all victims themselves of Greel's machine...
I was merely pointing out it's imperfection the first time.

As for "Delta and the Bannmen," that one needs more background detail
on the Chimeron/Bannermen war, and then we've got something very good,
as opposed to just good fun.  
As for the episodes you list, I'll give you no arguments except I think
you should toss out "Four to Doomsday" and "Black Orchid" itself.
Seen without the novel, "Black Orchid" is a virtual nothing story.  
If the detail put into the novel had made it into the show, however, then
it would have been a much better tale, and more in line with Peter Davison's
later "Campion" series. (BTW, the first episode of "Campion" was filmed at
the same location as "Black Orchid," i.e. the house)

But I wonder why you stop at "Enlightenment."  What about "The Five Doctors,"
"Frontios,"  "Resurrection of the Daleks," "Planet of Fire," 
"The Caves of Androzani," "Vengeance on Varos" (the best and only true 
dystopia I've ever seen in Who or almost anywhere else on TV come to that),
"Revelation of the Daleks,"  "Remembrance of the Daleks," much of the
Trial, etc.

Steven.K.Manfred
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Visions '92: Need a Room?
From: john.ewin@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (John Ewin) 
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:20:00 GMT
Reply-To: john.ewin@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (John Ewin) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Batchelor Pad PCBoard ~ Long Beach, CA ~ +1 310 494 8084

If anyone out there is attending Visions '92 in Chicago/O'Hare
11/27-11/29, I am looking for someone to share the cost of a room.

I will be there from 11/26 til' 11/30, and am looking for a non-smoking
male who doesn't come and go all hours of the night, as I am quiet, and
like my sleep.  (It's a mini-vacation, and I'm due back to work the next
day.)

Please contact me via EMail on Internet "john.ewin@pcb.batpad.lgb.us.ca",
GEnie "DOCTOR34", Delphi "THE34DOCTOR", CompuServe 76257,777, or use
routed pvt. mail on RIME to ->HOLISTIC in COMMON.

Rates are $59+12% tax per night, so you'd pay 1/2 that, if you're one
person.  (1/3 EACH if you have a friend wanting to share w/me.  Etc. for
more.)
---
 . SM 1.06 *0020 . They just don't make nostalgia like they used to.
                                                                                                                            
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik)
Subject: Re: McCoy
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 23:46:35 GMT

In <Bx9Dt1.E2J@acsu.buffalo.edu> perl@acsu.buffalo.edu (David T Perl) writes:



>	In my oppinion, McCoy helped to bring back alot of the elements that 
>the series had lost.  He helped to revitalize the show after it had lost so
>much support during the Colin Baker years.  McCoy added a new depth to the 
>personality of the Doctor.  He made him more mysterious and also showed that 
>he had a dark side to him as well.  Everyone is too used to thinking of the
>Doctor as human and McCoy tried to give him a more Gallifreyan personality.

He may have tried to revitalize the show, but if he had succeeded the show
would probably still be on.  Dark side?  You mean Colin Baker didn't show
the Doctor's dark side?  And Sly McCoy did?  I think you've got that
backwards.  (How about the Valeyard? :))
But I agree that he seemed more Gallifreyan.

>	He also brought back one of the elements that were missing since the
>Tom Baker years and that was that he always seemed to know exactly what was
>going on by the middle of the episode but couldn't be bothered to tell anyone.
>Tom Baker always used to do this as well.  By the middle of the show he always
>seemed to have all the answers and knew exactly what had to be done.

True.  But Tom was better.

>	Off the McCoy topic, I was just wondering if anyone else notice how
>the series seemed to lack something after the sonic screwdriver was destroyed
>in "The Visitaion"?
>-- 
>			     ---David---
>			perl@acsu.buffalo.edu

>"If I knew everything that was going to happen, where would all the fun be."

Not really.  But I do miss that sonic deus ex machina.

Drewcifer
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: timelord@cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey JACOBS)
Subject: Title Etimologies (war Re: Logopolis title theory)
Summary: Chris, the H of Bidmead
Keywords: I'M THE TIME LORD, today.
Organization: The Query Master Syndicate.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:48:10 GMT

In article <Bx5C8x.6A3@newcastle.ac.uk> G.M.Suddes@newcastle.ac.uk (Gareth Suddes) writes:
> Now the Police Box is such a familiar shape that the public came to regard it
>as the ideal representation of the Police force,
> or... <....DRUMROLL......>
>
>      the LOGO of the POLIS.            TA-DA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well, I always thought of the Polis meaning what it did in ancient
Greek, namely City.  But I like yours better.

> So if my theory holds, what does CASTROVALVA and FRONTIOS have to do with the
>content of their stories??

Well, let's see:

Castrovalva. . .
	That must have something to do with a Valve, and. . .er, Fidel
Castro?  Hmmm.

Frontios. . .
	Apart from sounding like a breakfast cerial?  Tasty
Tractator treats?  Perhaps not.  How about the Front of Ios?  But
what's an Ios?  Maybe it's that the stuff one finds stuck between the
cushions of one's sofa?
-- 
   (%)   By order of the High Council of Time Lords on Gallifrey   (%)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The world is too much with us."  |  And The Dark Horse     ~,-;`
   ---   William Wordsworth       |              Rides On           TX TL
From: morgans@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Shabang's rating of L&W by Paul Cornell.
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:47:17 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Here are my not so humble opinions of "Love and War" by Paul Cornell.

Don't worry, no spoilers.

Let's just say I didn't get to bed until 1 AM, and that was on a school 
night!  Very intense, exciting and well, lets just say I liked it.

It gets a very big 9 on the Shabang-o-meter, loses a point for some lack of 
plot sequences - some jumps that confused the reader.

But then not everyone will have the same opinion.  Those people who would 
not like this book would include those who don't like McCoy, and/or Ace, 
those who did not like the season 26 type of Doctor (manipulator), and 
those who have a crystallized, idealized view of the Who-universe, a 
universe with no facets of the modern, day-to-day problems and/or passions 
that exist in the real world.  So save your money if you think you may fall 
into that catagory.

Cornell and Aaronovitch get my nod as the best novelists of the New 
Adventures.  And there are more to come, thank goodness!

Later

Siobahn (Shabang) Morgan
morgans@iscsvax.uni.edu

If you followup to this and include spoilers - make sure you include 
spoiler protections (blank lines and/or control-L)
From: husted@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Jack)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Ace...is there a real life comparison?
Date: 7 Nov 92 20:19:53 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center

In article <BxBDw0.6pp@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jasstev@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (stevens jason) writes...

..most of which I've deleted

>  on unabated ,Id like to add a few comments about Ace....
>  (1) Ihave yet to find somebody who identifies with her through character,
>  ie wicked ! excellent! etc. I alos do not know any 19-21 year old females
>  as immature as ACE. Perhaops it is the social \circles I keep, but this sort of   Character does not exist.

I know some 35 and 40 year old females (and males too) who are
more immature than Ace.  Maybe it's the company I keep. 8-D

Point of clarification though...In Dragonfire, Ace gives her age
as 16 then changes it to 18 to appear older.  For a 16 year old,
she seems to behave age appropriately. The age change is an example.

>       Think on it.

Minor flame alert!
Think on it?  Think on it?!  THINK ON IT?!!!  For most of
the referenced post, I could hardly read it, much less discern any
meaning.  Thank you.  I feel better now.

Jack Husted
husted@macc.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: "daniel bishop" <daniel.bishop@canrem.com>
Subject: the doctor is...
Reply-To: "daniel bishop" <daniel.bishop@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 5 Nov 92 02:06:16 EST

Not very bloody likely that the Doctor is Rassilon because.....

.....Who he is is not unknown to Gallifrey (though his Matrix
information had been since subverted)

.....He had Borusa as a teacher (Invasion of Time)

.....Romana knows he got poor grades in the Acadamy (how could there be
an Acadamy *before* Rassilon?)

.....Drax was a classmate (class of the 4th millenium, The Armageddon
Factor)....as was, apparently, the Rani (Mark of the Rani).....and Anzor
(Mission to Magnus, unreleased, but the novelization is out and The
Terrestrial Index claims that the BBC considers the "missing season" to
be canon

.....The Doctor worked with Rassilon (Remembrance of the Daleks, Silver
Nemesis)

.....Need I go on?
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: jblum@next00clab.wam.umd.edu (The Maven)
Subject: Re: complex stories
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:35:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.001038.5827@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>  
as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) writes:
> In <1689BD2DB.GGPERRY@NUACVM.ACNS.NWU.EDU> GGPERRY@NUACVM.ACNS.NWU.EDU  
(ggreg) writes:
 
> >one reason i love dr. who so much:   the literary quality of writing.
> >watching a really good dr. who episode is like reading a good book.   
all
> >the characters are well developed, the stories are well fleshed out and
> >very substantial.  when a show is over, i feel like i do when i've just
> >read a good novel.

 
> Your rant was appreciated and applauded.  It is precisely this  
novel-like
> quality that I missed in the McCoy stories (no flames, please--I don't  
want
> to reopen this topic).

No flames -- just the observation that, in some ways, the McCoy stories
are the most novel-like of the bunch -- at least, they make the
transition from script to novelization the best.  It could be that the
stories are too "novel-like" in that the scope of their stories is too
big for four rather low-budgeted episodes.
From: ggranger@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Greg Granger)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Stallone buys TARDIS
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 21:40:40 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

duzan@tweety.cis.udel.edu (Gary D. Duzan) writes:

- In article <WHITEHEC.92Nov5113908@panda.cs.man.ac.uk> whitehec@cs.man.ac.uk (
- =>
- =>Apparently Sylvester Stallone bought a police box at an auction
- =>of TV memorobilia.  It wasn't the Doctor Who prop,  but an identical
- =>one from Dixon of Dock Green.  God knows what he wants it for!
- 
-    Maybe he is planning on playing the Doctor in the Doctor Who movie
- and is wanting to practice. :-)
- 
-                                         Gary Duzan
-                                         Time  Lord
-                                     Third Regeneration
- 
- 
- 
- -- 
-                              duzan@cis.udel.edu
-    _o_                       ------------------                         _o_
-  [|o o|]       Virtual Reality? No thanks, I've already got one.      [|o o|]
-   |_O_|       Disclaimer: I have no idea what I am talking about.      |_O_|


Okay, and I could just imagine the only speaking part for him would be:

          "Ay - oh, Rass-i-lon!"  <Grin!>  (I had to put that in!)

========================================================================
|  Gregeory C. Granger  (GGranger@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca) |    "Greed    |
|  5516-190 A Street  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6M-2L3 |      is      |
|  Phone:      +1 (403) 483-2049  OR  +1 (403) 481-5110 |     good!"   |
========================================================================
From: jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: McCoys portrayal of the Doctor
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:01:22 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Nov5.175614.9564@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) writes:
>Turlough and Adric were better than Ace, and here's why.  First of all, I
>thought they were far less obnoxious, but I know no one agrees with me, so
>forget that for now.  But Turlough was the first steady companion who was
>selfish, out for his own good, and actually ordered to kill the Doctor. 
>Whether you liked him or not as a person, you have to admit that that was
>one hell of an original--and highly effective--element.  

Original, yes.  But it only lasted for three stories.  After that,
what happened?  Turlough barely had six lines per episode from then on,
except for Frontios and his exit story, Planet of Fire.  Ace was never
pushed into the background the way he was... and that's part of her character's
strength, IMHO.  She couldn't be ignored.

>Adric was a much
>more convincing teen than Ace, better-looking (IMHO, although it's an
>irrelevant point), and INTELLIGENT.

Adric was convincing... for a 14-year-old.  But the character was supposed
to be 16 or 17, and there's a WORLD of difference.  The immature whining and
"you're only a girl" put-downs of, say, "Four To Doomsday" were neither
accurate nor intelligent.

Ace, on the other hand, shows just as much reasoning ability in 
"Curse of Fenric", when she figures out the logic diagram, and she
acted a lot closer to her age.

Adric had moments.  I really liked the character on his first appearance
in "Full Circle", and "Logopolis" and "Keeper of Traken" suggested a great
mentor-relationship with the Doctor.  "Earthshock" worked too.  But so
much of the rest of the time, he was either wasted, or acted so out of
character with those other stories that it makes me cringe.

Ace, on the other hand, has always had a consistent characterization, and
I _know_ sixteen- and seventeen-year-olds (at my sister's high school) who
have exactly that kind of "I've never had no mum and dad" attitude and
quick temper.  And best of all, she and Sylvester have developed exactly the
kind of mentor-student relationship that they tried and failed with Adric.

>  Sure, he did some pretty dumb things
>from time to time, and the characterization was a bit unrealistic, but he
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^

contradiction alert!  You just said Adric was a convincing portrayal.
Had to say it.  :-)
From: il67@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Mail server available
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:31:53 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas

Has anyone been able to contact this mail server?  (mom@cbnewsl.att.com)
I keep getting messages telling me the address is unreachable.
Thanks.

James
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho