HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:32:38 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Aug21.212606.9176@src.umd.edu> tedwards@src.umd.edu (Thomas Grant Edwards) writes:
>In article <Bt4s3w.1GE@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>...about more vaction==better workers
>>  I see.  This no doubt explains why in 1990 4 of the top 5 *US*
>>  patent grantees were Japanese companies.  If it weren't for their
>>  long working hours I guess they would have won all 5 spots!
>
>I don't think patent numbers are any indication of work quality,
>only work quantaty.  I could probably rack up a patent or two per
>week, but it would be kind of meaningless, and a waste to the legal
>dept.

  Are you seriously suggesting that the Japanese are suffer in quality
  compared to the US?!   Clearly you've never read a JD Powers report, 
  picked up an April issue of Consumer Reports, or checked out incom-
  ing qual rates of memory parts!   


>And remember, U.S. workers are more productive than Japanese workers...

  But just barely.  US is #1, Japan is $2.  Note that we're also 
  very close in hours worked.  


>>  What I object to is companies being forced by government or 
>>  unions to give this kind of vacation time.  If it has all these
>>  wonderful productivity benefits then companies would no doubt
>>  choose such policies voluntarily for their intrinsic competitive
>>  benefits.
>
>This makes the tacit assumption that managers are intelligent!

  Yes.  The ones at successful companies are.  


>But no, I think it would be useless for the government to set
>vacation time.  I do _not_ think it would be useless for government
>to set parental leave laws.  

  Why should the government do it?  I don't have any kids; I
  specifically chose not to have any.  Do I get to go on an extended
  leave for some big project of my choice?


>Managers in the U.S. are only starting to realize that bringing
>the "workers" on board the management team is a good idea, and that
>often the "workers" know a heck of alot more about how to get a
>business running well than the "management."  I think they will begin
>to realize that the microscopic vacation time most U.S. workers get is
>not a good idea.

  Again, an article of faith.  Give us some concrete evidence.


---peter




Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,sci.engr
From: paradis@sousa.ltn.dec.com (Jim Paradis)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Will the companies look into the resumes?
Date: 18 Aug 92 03:04:34 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Littleton, MA

vrajanik@ccad.uiowa.edu (Rajanikanth Vemulapalli) writes:
: Will the companies really look into all the resumes they receive? 

It's been my experience that most companies will give all incoming resumes
at least a cursory scanning...

: These days, many companies are not responding to resumes/applications. 

Well, these days a single "help wanted" ad can bring in literally
*mailbags* full of resumes... responding to each and every one of them
would break the bank on postage alone!  Hence, many companies only 
respond to the ones they do want to consider.

: [The] Few companies that are responding say "We will keep your resume 
: in file. We will let you know if any position comes up".  Do they 
: really mean what they say?

Yes and no... again, it's been my experience that those companies that
say they keep your resume on file generally *do*.  However, it goes into
a "reserve" file, to be consulted if an opening comes up *and there's no
current resume that can fill it*.  In other words, if your resume isn't
a "hit" immediately, then you go to the back of the line.  When a position
comes up, your resume is consulted *after* all those that came in
recently.  With tough times like these, and with personnel departments
processing thousands of resumes a week... well, I'd buy snow parka futures
in Hades before I'd wager that they'd get around to giving me a second
look!

: Any suggestions/comments welcome.

Your best bet is to send a fresh resume to each company whenever you
hear of an open position (but not more than, say, one resume every
two or three weeks or so...).  When you hear of new positions coming
up, do *not* assume that you're being considered just because you know
your resume is "on file"...


-- 
Jim Paradis (paradis@tallis.enet.dec.com) 
Working for DEC, speaking for myself.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: dp@natinst.com (Debapriya Ray)
Subject: Career prospects in VMS internals/device-drivers
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:40:38 GMT

Hi folks !

	I am interested in knowing what are the job prospects for folks
working in VMS, specifically those who are system programmers, device-
driver writers, know VMS internals. What are career prospects with
an experience of 2-3 yrs in this area ? I am interested in knowing this
since, most job ads one comes across in the job-related newsgroups
on Usenet, ask for people skilled in Unix/Unix internals/X/C++/RDBMS.

	You may post on the net if you like. But since I am not a 
very regular reader of this newsgroup, I will appreciate a response
to my email address:  dp@natinst.com

	Thanks !!

	Regards, Debapriya Ray

email: dp@natinst.com
National Instr
Austin, Texas
From: keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Achievement based resumes
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:13:00 GMT
Organization: California-Nevada Methodist Homes

In article <713645549snx@apusapus.demon.co.uk> tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk (Trevor Jenkins) writes:
>In article <BsuM7n.D68@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ezellj@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
>> tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk (Trevor Jenkins) writes:
>> Wow!  This is frightening.  Were his references checked?  I find it a
>> little suprising how seldom references seem to be checked.
>or not. The story is now a little vague but I seem to remember that the
>that his medical degree was real. But then again, no has ever wanted to SEE
>my Master's degree (honest I do have one---from Brunel Univeristy); nor
>have I requested to see anyone elses degree either from any univerity or
>college.
>Trevor Jenkins                                   Radio: G6AJG
>email: tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk
You've hit it on the head, Trevor!  Prospective employers don't ask to
see degrees or transcripts.  I have known of a relatively small number of
employers to request transcripts, but this is a SMALL number.  This is why
there is a proliferation of the so-called "Degree Mills" operating in 
the sate of CA, mainly.  Basically, you send them a couple thousand dollars,
and you receive a degree in the mail.  They will even furnish "transcripts"
of your work.  This way, if there is ever a question, you have transcripts.
	ON a second note, people need to clear up their use of the term
"references".  References are not the same as "experience".  References
are friends, and indeed, past employers who can vouch for you personally.
--Keith


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Originator: kevinh@mira
Reply-To: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 12:24:31 GMT


In article <BtFFvE.A1x@jrd.dec.com>, doi@jrd.dec.com (Hitoshi Doi) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug21.162919.10306@Princeton.EDU>, egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
|> # In article <1992Aug21.122906.22118@eua.ericsson.se> euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall) writes:
|> # >nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
|> # >
|> # >>  The Japanese average 2100 working hours a year versus 2050 in the US
|> # >>  (source: OECD) 
|> # 
|> # This figure is highly bogus.
|> 
|> Yeah, the Japanese figure looks way too low.

Or maybe the american figure is too high? How are these figures calculated?

E.g. Number of working days per year minus holidays minus statutory holidays??

I suppose you should add average overtime figures to this. In Switzerland, which
has the highest figure for number of hours worked per week in Europe, I think
the weekly figure was ~47 hours per week, average is 4-4.5 weeks holiday, and
we have about 10 statutory days per year(unless you live in a catholic area,
then you have more :-).

Therefore (52-4)*47 = 2256. Deduct two weeks(10 days) statutory holiday = 2162

This still seems too high! 

Any answers??

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
From: brettw@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Brett D. Watson)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Computer Security research/implementation (networks, UNIX, others) (Chicago, US Citizen)
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:30:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

ajg@controls.ccd.harris.com (Arnold Goldberg) writes:

>Wow, a real jobs-offered post....

>How did that get through the cracks...


 all the complaining people have been doing about irrelevant posts in
*.offered.entry, including myself, and someone has to post a stupid
follow-up to a REAL job posting.  I guess you don't have to impress
anyone when you already have a job, huh?

-=- Brett
-- 
  Brett Watson, 915 Calflin Rd. Manhattan, KS  66502, (913) 776-5951
  Technical Support Programmer, Farrell Library, KSU, (913) 532-7427
  ==================================================================
	  brettw@matt.ksu.ksu.edu | brettw@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: rsemenof@ee.ubc.ca (SEMENOFF ROBERT)
Subject: Working for free
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 02:44:13 GMT

I've trying to find work to gain some relevant experience.
Since I'm an undergrad and just taking a year off, I'm thinking
it might be difficult to get anything better than the computer
equivalent of floor-sweeping, since I lack experience in some
of the _hot_ fields (GUI, OOP etc.).

Up to now I've just been expecting to get a full time salaried job
but now I'm thinking that it might be better to say
"I'll work for free for a while just to learn".
After doing that for a few months, I might then ask for
money or take my newly acquired skills elsewhere.

Does anyone have any comments on this ?

Of course it would be hard on me because I'd have to
work part time at a paying job to sustain myself.
Also, what would a potential employer's response be?
(This guy must be a real loser if he'll work for free) ?
From: johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us (John R. Levine)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:37:25 GMT
Organization: I.E.C.C.

>   ...  Look at Europe's cost-of-living sometime or their
>   share of the world market in any of the a number of major in-
>   dustrial sectors.

Indeed.  Compare German productivity and competitiveness with that of the
U.S.  Even with the current diversion caused by the absorption of East
Germany, they are very competitive by any reasonable measure in most
markets for industrial products such as automobiles, chemicals, and drugs.
When comparing costs of living, keep in mind that the annual out of pocket
cost for medical care is typically zero.

Then compare vacation policies: By law, every German worker gets at least
six, yes six, weeks of paid vacation.  The harder working French, by
comparison, only get five.

If you look more carefully, you'll find that workforce education and
stable dependable capital markets are far more important than the nominal
number of hours worked.  German banks cooperate far more closely with
their client firms than do American firms, including interlinked
management which would be illegal here.  This lets German firms avoid the
sorts of counterproductive quarter-to-quarter shenanigans that too many
American firms have to engage in to please the capital markets.  The
German scheme isn't perfect, in particular it is much harder to start or
expand a new business, but there is a lot to learn from it.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: LJ03933@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Hawaii Jobs (Info Request)
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 13:36:38 GMT

I am looking into moving back to Hawaii (any island).
Anyone know of any headhunters who specialize in Hawaii/Pacific
jobs? I know there's not alot of technical work available,
but every now and then something comes up. (By the way, I am an
electronics tech/systems operator/Navy vet.) How about info
on Fed jobs?

Thanks in advance....
   Tamara
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: Frank Sayre <sayre@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu>
Subject: Re: Why no college jobs?
Organization: Vanderbilt University Computer Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:59:23 GMT

In article <55@cnmhnet.UUCP> keith garrard, keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP writes:
>We all know that anyone
>who offers any kind of recommendation nowadays, is setting themselves
>up for potential liability problems if the person doesn't work out.  
>Most companies nowadays will only verify that a person indeed was
>employed there, and maybe give dates.  That is it.   Anything more
>than that can get them into trouble.  

Do we know that? Can you summarize an example or two w/ names 
changed to protect the innocent? Did companies ever do more than 
verify employment in response to blind outside requests? And isn't
that primarily to protect the privacy of the (former) employee?
==============================================================
Frank C. Sayre                           "When I die, throw me to the
wolves.  
Vanderbilt Univ Comp Center      I'm used to it." Diogenes the Cynic
sayre@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
From: john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Need Advice/CS major w/ bad grades
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:40:56 GMT
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN

Anthony Garcia writes:
> I just completed my computer science degree at Rutgers but my
> gpa is only about 2.65. I will finish a degree in English in December
> and my gpa there is much better. Can anyone offer some constructive
> advice as I look for a full time job in the coming months? Is there
> a grad school in the country that will take a mediocre student?

You could always try to repair your grade point.  Anything under a 3.0
will really hurt you in the job market--until you get about 3 years or
so of experience (IMHO).  Here are two things that I have seen work:

Spend a quarter or two at another university and get a second computer
science degree.  Since you will need to transfer to do this, all of your
pervious grades will be wiped out, and your GPA will only count for your
new classes.  With some searching, you should be able to find a college
that will accept a majority of your current credits and let you earn
another comp sci degree with only 30 or so credits.  If you pick your
classes right and get all A's, you could end up with a 4.0 GPA in CS.

A second strategy would be to retake the lowest grades that you received
at your current school.  Some schools allow you to retake any class once,
and record the higher grade.  Retaking 4 or 8 classes, and getting A's
in them, would probably significantly help your GPA.  This will not work
very well if your current school averages all grades from the same class
(ie, a D plus an A recsults in a high C or low B, rather than an A).

-john-

-- 
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:00:46 EDT
From: Spyro                 <SDA106@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: IMI Systems consulting company

Anyone has any experience with a company called IMI Systems, they
have offices in NYC, NJ, Chicago, Dallas, Washington, London, ...
they hire programmers for projects that they complete for other
companies.

  Anyone knows anything more first hand ?


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: aavso@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Tom Quesinberry)
Subject: Headhunter.Savannah, Ga.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lewis Research Center/NASA
Date: 17 Aug 1992 14:01 EST  


I would be interested in making contact with a headhunter or employment
service that services the Savannah, Ga. area.

Any info welcome.

Thanks in advance.

				Tom Q.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Tom Quesinberry                 | E-MAIL: aavso@scivax.lerc.nasa.gov
  Research Analysis Center/CSD    | PBX:    (216) 433-5130
  Lewis Research Center/NASA      | LIFE:   I would rather see starlight
  Cleveland, Ohio 44135           |              than streetlights.
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  * Some Ignorance Is Indestructible
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: fran@Cadence.COM (Fran Peterson)
Subject: Re: George Herbert Walker Bush is from a Planet far far away
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:12:45 GMT

In article <PANDY.92Aug17085116@vipunen.hut.fi> pandy@hut.fi writes:
>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Aug 1992 02:43:28 GMT, aldavi01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Arlie Davis) said:
>> Besides, this is a good theory as to why someone could recklessly
>> do around doing what ever they like, killing the planet,
>> turning a blind eye to the unwashed have-nots, and buddying
>> up to multinationals interests and agendas. 
>
>Arlie> What, you mean you can't explain evil / stupid people without reverting
>Arlie> to elaborate, tenuous theories about aliens??
>Arlie>
>Arlie> Wake up and smell the coffee -- a lot of people really *suck*.
>
>	I agree, like those who know close to nothing about
>"netiquette". I guess some university employees have given accounts to
>their kids, who know nothing about Usenet.
>
>	Time for coffee now.
>
>	Let's move to misc.jobs.misc now... to be continued...
>
>===============================================================================
>       Andreas "Pandy" Holmberg        Helsinki University of Technology
>       E-mail: pandy@hut.fi            Computing Center
>===============================================================================

What does this have to do with entry level jobs offered?
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Subject: Re: putting irrelevant experiences on resumes
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 15:53:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

rebel@deathstar.Stanford.EDU (Edward Piou) writes:
: "Never be unemployed. If you can't get anything 
: better, work in the pizza parlor at the mall for two weeks instead of
: not having a job for two weeks. Show that you keep yourself busy."

The part about never being idle is true. Pizza parlor - no, unless you
want to work on distribution systems or something like that.

: 	Should I put something like clerical/office work down as the
: first job I ever had, or skip that and just put down my first
: computer-related job?
: 	If I put non-computing jobs on my resume, it'll spill over into
: 2 pages. If I don't, I can keep it to 1 page. Should this make any difference?
: 	Any help would be appreciated. And if you could gear it towards an
: almost-entry-level person/resume, that would be great.
: 
Here in California there is a group called Compumentor. They match
up tech types regardless of past experience with non-profit 
groups that need technical help. This could be anything from
setting up a computer or modem, to building a bbs or network.
If you don't have a job, do some volunteer work for them. It would
also let you beef up what you may be lacking. Volunteer work is 
good on a resume.

Another thing that I do is to write. There are some small magazines,
and novice user magazines. Write an article. If you can provide a copy
of the article, then you can a) prove documentation/tech writing skills,
and b) prove that you were doing something, even if it didn't get 
published.

Lastly, I only put the month and year that I started and finished at 
a job. I would need to be out of work for over a month (closer to about
2 before this was a glaring situation.)
: 			ep
: --
: Edward T. Piou	rebel@deathstar.stanford.edu	Edarchy First!


Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
From: rcd@raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Summary: more vacation doesn't necessarily mean less work
Date: 13 Aug 92 05:35:54 GMT
Organization: eklektix - Boulder, Colorado

nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
...
>   ...SOMEONE has to pay for that European employee's wages
>   when he's partying on the coast of Spain or fishing in some lake
>   in Sweden or painting his house in a suburb of Munich.  More
>   vacation time translates directly into higher labor costs or less
>   productivity...

No, it doesn't...and that's the blind spot a lot of us in the US have.

If you give more days off for vacation, you have fewer work days--that much
is clear.  The catch is that you're assuming productivity per work day
stays constant, regardless of the amount of vacation time.  That is at best
arguable.

I've seen projects where people were working like mad, literally running
themselves into the ground trying to meet a deadline, but an enlightened
manager took a step back, figured out what was wrong, and said "Everybody
just take a day [or two] off--NOW!  Get out and don't think about the
project until you get back!"  Two whole days of work hours gone, zero
productivity, but even that short break gave people a chance to recharge,
get new perspectives, stop acting desperate.  You find you've been banging
your head against the wall instead of opening a door and walking through
it.

Isn't there a good chance that more vacation time would have the same
effect, somewhat less drastically but more generally?  Make people feel
better about themselves, give them more time for their own lives, and when
they come to work they'll be able to focus on work better?  I can't prove
it with figures, but it's at least plausible and it seems to be how the
Europeans think.
-- 
Dick Dunn    rcd@raven.eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado
				Cats!
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:5818 soc.women:15177
From: zwicky@erg.sri.com (Elizabeth Zwicky)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,soc.women
Subject: Re: Achievement based resumes
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:48:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA

In article <1992Aug11.203119.6887@wuecl.wustl.edu> tsb1@cec2.wustl.edu (Tonya Suzette Bartow) writes:

>Is a chronological resume still preferred when the applicant is an entry-level
>college graduate?  I can just see it now:

>Jun-Aug  92  summer internship
>Sept-May 91  went to school
>Jun-Aug  91  summer internship
>Sept-May 90  went to school
>Jun-Aug  89  summer job
>Sept-May 89  went to school

"Chronological" resumes are normally chronological by category, so
that this would read:

Experience:

Jun-Aug 92  Programmer, Alto Widget Corp
Jun-Aug 91  Programmer Trainee, Piano Synthesizers, Inc
Jun-Aug 89  Senior Hamburger Mangler, McDonald's

Education:

Sept 89 -- May 91 Fantastic Private College


	Elizabeth D. Zwicky
	zwicky@erg.sri.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,soc.women