HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: werme@alliant.com (Ric Werme)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Fermat's flunkeys (was Re: A Real Challenge)
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:03:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: alliant.1992Apr16.200320.30887
Organization: Alliant Computer Systems Corp.

In article <1992Apr16.160528.11486@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> jc@sppip7.lkg.dec.com (John Chambers) writes:
>This free-market approach to education is very shortsighted.  Consider
>a  bright  but very poor kid in the local ghetto of your choice.  That
>kid has no chance whatsoever of paying for his/her own education.  You
>are  therefore  condemning  him/her  to a life of whatever can be done
>without an education.  Such people typically don't just  give  up  and
>commit  suicide.  A lot of them are going to "make it" in whatever way
>that society will allow.  Since an education is the  entry  ticket  to
>most  legit  jobs that pay well, this means either legit jobs that pay
>poorly, or at illegit jobs that pay well.

So why are several private schools popping up in Harlem at the expense
of free public education?  Instead of forcing people to go to school,
perhaps we could do better by teaching kids who respect education
enough to want to learn.  It's also a good way to select the parents
who are interested in helping their kid's education.  And to encourage
both.  A mind may be a terrible thing to waste, but to force a mind
that wants to learn to go to a public (government) school whose
charter includes forcing kids to be there is probably a greater waste.

>Early this century, America went to great lengths  to  deny  education
>and  opportunity  to  the  large  influx  of people from Mediterranean
>countries, and we paid a high price for it in the form  of  the  Mafia
>and crime rates among the highest in the world.

Gee, and I thought it was prohibition that brought out the best of
the Mafia.  Any similarity with the current drug crime situation is
probably valid.

>  Then and now, we have
>denied education and opportunities to urban black kids;

John Gotti is black!?   [Sorry, that's an uncalled for cheap shot.]

 we are  paying
>a  high  price  for  it when they make it in the only way available to
>them: crime and drugs.  The recent influx of immigrants from Southeast
>Asia  has  produced  the same sort of denials in their inevitably poor
>communities, and we are seeing a greater involvement  of  these  young
>people in organized crime.

You're being overly general here.  Note also that many of the SE Asian
students are also at the top of their class.  Someone at work here
says she has read stuff on the high degree of familial involvement in
their kid's education.

>When will we ever learn?

As long as the government is doing the teaching, it can be a while.

I shouldn't be so cynical - I did better in my government high school
than I did in a private school for a couple years.  Then again, I
here school's have declined a bit in the past 25 years.

-- 
| A pride of lions               | Eric J Werme                   |
| An odd lot of programmers      | uucp: mit-eddie!alliant!werme  |
| A Constitution of Libertarians | Phone: 508-486-1214            |
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: bhatia@snow-white.ee.udel.edu (Sunita K. Bhatia)
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Jump in GRE (or SAT) Score
Keywords: SAT, GRE
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Distribution: all
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:40:58 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.003643.27016@spool.cs.wisc.edu> zack@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Zack Xu) writes:
>
>    On 3/25's Wall Street Journal, there's a front-page article about
>a case where a family sued ETS (Educational Testing Service which makes
>all the standardized tests, e.g. SAT, GRE).
>    Here's the story.  A high-school guy in New Jersey took his first
>SAT in May of 1990(?), he only got 660 as the combined score.  Then
>he took SAT again in November, and he scored 400 more points, around
>1050.  But ETS refused to release his score and suspected he somehow
>cheated the second time.  Their only reason for suspicion: it's not
>plausible for someone's score to jump 400 more points. 
>
> [stuff deleted]
>
>    My question is:  have any of you had such an experience?  like score
>> 350 points on an ETS exam than the previous time you took it.  What
>happened?  Did they release your score, or offered to give you a full
>refund.  Does ETS has this rule that one's score shall not be released if
>(s)he scored 350 points lower the previous time?  

I took the SAT's in January of my seventh grade year (I was trying to 
qualify for a summer program for students).  I scored 930 combined.
Two years later, I took the SAT's in ninth grade, this time I scored
1400 combined.  Now, the ETS didn't come after me and refuse to 
release my scores, probably because between seventh and ninth grade 
it was probable that I had learned enough math and english skills to
jump about 200 or so points in each section of the SAT's.  They just
reported the score.

>    If they do have this rule, is there a time limit?  I'd think it's
>perfectly possible for one's score to jump > 350 points after > 1 year. 

I don't know.  But in my case, it looks like two years was enough to
allay any suspicions.

On another related note, both my mother and I are proctors for many of
the tests that ETS has (GRE, GMAT, LSAT, etc).  When I had to take
my GRE's to get into graduate school, I was told by our regional supervisor
that I had to take the tests in another state so I wouldn't some under
suspicion for cheating.  Obviously, I wasn't proctoring that day, and
since the proctors never actually see the exams, I didn't see how I
could have cheated, anyway.  Oh, well, guess I'm not clever enough to
find these loopholes.  ;-)

----- Sunita K Bhatia
----- bhatia@ee.udel.edu
----- Disclaimer:  I don't speak for UD, and it doesn't speak for me.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ae775@yfn.ysu.edu (John Schneder)
Subject: Re: /T/ The 2% Rule 
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 11:25:15 GMT


Im not an afro-amer..I am anIrish/German of deprived circumstances
My fore-bearers were peasants and craft-persons who fled oppresion.
They also fled religious persecution and starvation. I personally
am from a family of 13 sibs of whom at least 7 qual. for mensa.
We lived for a long period in a 4 room farmhouse w/no int.plumbing.
My father never made enough to adequately feed that large a group.
I had a lot of hand-downs etc. Im trying to show deprivation.
I qualified  and requalified for mensa so I'think that circumstabn
ces had less to do with it thaninnate ability and desire to join.
I am coming to the opinion that Scott wpould would rather fight than admit error.
From: eab@uh.msc.edu (Edward Bertsch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Scott Tai, welcome to my kill file
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:13:32 GMT
Organization: Minnesota Supercomputer Center


--

Edward A. Bertsch (eab@msc.edu)   Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc.
Operations/User Services          1200 Washington Avenue South
(612) 626-1571 work               Minneapolis, Minnesota  55415
(612) 645-0168 voice mail

	"Read _MY_ lips: I won't be voting for Bush in 1992"
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: one simple question
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:07:03 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <2068.29E19A27@kennel.FIDONET.ORG>, Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner) writes:
> 
> mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes about "Re: one simple question" to All  [06 Apr 92
> 21:51]
> 
>> MG> In short, the rational strategy seems to be either (1) ignore 
>> MG> the lie, or, at worst, (2) respond precisely once.
>> 
>> But people who arrive in time for the second repition of the lie and who 
>> missed the first round wouldn't know about the first refutation.
> 
> M>  Why worry so much about what other people think? It isn't your 
> M> duty to assure everyone knows what statements made on a newsnet 
> M> are true and which are false.
> 
> Because if the lies are about me (either directly or indirectly by lying about
> an organization with which I am identified), it is my reputation and character
> that are being maligned.  Sure, I can be a hermit and not concern myself with
> what other people think of me, but I'd rather interact with people instead.

It's a matter of weighting priorities.  Why spend *all* of the effort
in refuting these lies?

> Mike Steiner

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca
From: shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Richard Barry Shrum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: /T/T/T/ mrmrks and beating a dead horse ...
Date: 7 Apr 92 02:32:11 GMT
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, CA

In article <1992Apr5.213834.13720@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) writes:
>> Or your problem rooted in your hate of intelligent people.
>
>No, just bigoted people who THINK they're smarter than everyone else.
>
>---------
>Scott Tai


Scott,

Did you try to join but didn't qualify? Is that it?


(-1) (genius) =~ Rick
From: twc@svcs1.UUCP (Ted Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: The Triple Nine Society
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:55:42 GMT
Organization: Silicon Valley Computer Society, Sunnyvale, CA

I seem to have missed the earlier thread about the 99.9th percentile
groups, so I apologize in advance for any redundancy.  Anyway, anyone
know the current status of the above group?  This was an offshoot of
the "Society for Philisophical Inquiry" (or something like that...).
Last time I got the Vidya was about '82 or so, and I'd like to see about
that renewal...

--twc@legal.uucp

P.S.  Thanks in advance.
P.P.S. Scott, if you're out there, this outfit has even fewer minorities!
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: A Truly International Gathering
Date: 15 Apr 92 04:59:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Gordon Cross writes about "Re: A Truly International Gathering" to All  [14
Apr 92 15:02]

GC> What are your favorite RGs?? Mine are in approximate order: 

[list omitted]

Technically, Asilomar is not an RG; it is a SIG in its own right.  But, who
is being technical here?

My all-time favorite RG is Phoenix Phiesta in Phoenix, AZ.  I've been to every
one that they have held since their 83 AG.  Going back in memory to 1978, I'd
say that San Antonio runs a great RG (although I haven't been to any of theirs
since 85) and Houston's SynRG (Memorial Day weekend) was great (although I went
only to their first one, in 82--I moved out of the area after that).  Orange
County throws a pretty good one, but not as good as the others I've mentioned.
 Vegas last December had a good RG also; it was their first in a few years,
and they were a bit rusty--the next one promises to be much better.

Actually, I've never been to a bad RG, but those that I mentioned stand out
in my memory--as do the ones the El Paso in 79 and 84, but they don't run RGs
regularly there.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: v058l789@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Ethan A Bowerman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: TIME TRAVEL
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:49:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr6.013349.20476@ncsu.edu>, cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes...
>Dave Aronson writes:
>DA> v058l789@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Ethan A Bowerman) writes:
> 
>  EAB> friend, who says that they have been able to
>  EAB> make electrons go back
>  EAB> in time somehow.  I don't recall the parameters.  If 
>  EAB> you're interested, let me know and I'll talk to him about it.
> 
>DA> I for one am very interested!  Post away!
> 
>So am I... veeeerrrry interested! ( as I'd said earlier )
>Can you hear us, Ethan?  let's have that story ASAP !
> 
	Sorry -- my server went down and I have been real busy.  I haven't
been able to talk to my friend.  Give me another day again- then flame me
if I still haven't posted- that'll get me to post 'fer sure.  


 						Ethan

 			a.k.a. The Procrastination King
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Subject: Re: Use of this newsgroup (Was Re: TIME TRAVEL)
Organization: UUNET Communications Services
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 07:17:06 GMT

 > So, why should we have to look elsewhere for a discussion that
 > started here as an RG report?  I access this newsgroup from a
 > BBS, not from an internet site or a usenet site.  That means
 > that the traffic has to be sent to the BBS via modem.  I don't
 > want to have to keep subscibing to an unknown number of the
 > 3,000 newsgroups just to follow a message thread.

It does make it difficult.  USENET is not geared toward
short-term discussions.  Newsgroups are usually created for
topics or categories of topics that will have long-term interest.
Similarly, sites get feeds for groups they will be intereted in
over the long haul.

One might say that if you're only interested in time travel
discussions when they pop up in rec.org.mensa, then you're not
really interested in time travel, just as one might say a person
who is intersted in science only when it's mentioned in SF
stories really isn't interested in science.

w.r.t. moving discussions to new group
 > Whose responsibility is it to move it?

The person who changed the subject.  The convention is to
crosspost to the old and new groups, with Followup-To set to the
new group.

 > What if some of the correspondents' sites don't carry the
 > newsgroup to which it is moved?

They are generally out of luck.

 > > > What about a discussion about how Mensa would be different if
 > > > someone from 1992 had gone back in time to tell the founders
 > > > how Mensa developed into a social organization, and they
 > > > changed their charter as a result?
 > >
 > >  Sure. Some good ideas could come out of this sort of speculation. 
 > 
 > And that discussion will invariably branch into discussions of the nature of
 > time travel and the feasability of the situation happening in the first place.
 > Now, we have two branches of the same discussion on two different newsgroups.

Which is fine if the branches are about different subjects.  It's
more work to follow them if you're interested in all the branches
But it is better to move the discussion because you pick up
readers who would have missed the discussion were it not moved to
the appropriate place.
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Mensa Demographics
Date: 12 Apr 92 03:57:27 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <1992Mar26.222646.1455@brandonu.ca>, mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:
> In article <9983@cernvax.cern.ch>, 
> steveb@cernvax.cern.ch (Steve Bougerolle) writes:
>> 
>> I am curious what percentage of Canadians are in Mensa as compared to
>> percentage of people in other countries.  Any stats?
> 
> Was there any response to this?  It'd be nice to know, just for fun.

I played around with some data posted by Bill Fisher to show the proportion
of Mensa members in the five given countries (I was bored).

A couple of notes:  I assumed that those who fell in the 98th percentile
actually made up two percent of the total population.  Also, these
percentiles were isolated to each given country.  That is to say, that
I was only dealing with each population on it's own.  It isn't reasonable
to assume that each country has their own equal share of people qualified
fo Mensa, but I did anyway.  Is this making any sense?  

Anyway, the point is that you are more likely to find a Mensa member 
in the Channel Islands than you are in Canada if your method of searching
is completely random.  "Who cares?" you ask?  Well, quite awhile ago
it was noted that there seemed to be a large proportion of Canadian
Mensa "bashers", and a small number of Canadian Mensans/Mensa "supporters".
Not like this has anything to do with the meaning of life, but I thought
it was interesting.

Mensa Membership Statistics (August 1991)

                     Membership   % of Pop.   % of Those in   Proportion 
			                      the 98th %ile   of mean 
                                                           
     Australia              961      0.0060       0.30         0.10
     Canada                2546      0.0098       0.49         0.17
     Channel Islands        257      0.1977       9.885        3.36
     UK-Ireland           35608      0.0601       3.00         1.02
     USA                  50483      0.0203       1.02         0.347
     mean                 17971      0.0588       2.94         1.00

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca
From: jess%miracle@merk.com (Shi'nayne)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: /T/ 'Herr' and Blatant Discrimination
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:14:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: miracle.mVeTiB1w164w
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:

> phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) writes:
> 
> > How can you claim that it is blatant discrimination?
> 
> Because it is :)
> 
> ---------
> Scott Tai

How can you claim this??  Where are your facts???  If there aren't a lot of
minority people in Mensa, this is not the fault of Mensa.  It is entirely
up to the people whether or not they want to try and apply for membership.
Just because someone in a minority group takes the Mensa test and doesn't
qualify, or doesnt' have high enough scores from other tests doesn't mean
he/she is being discriminated against!!  If you are going to claim this,
you had damn well better support yourself with solid facts, not just your
opinion!!

Jessica


Vampire Hunters Inc.
jess%miracle@merk.com
If you have vampire problems, call!!  We'll
stake your problem right through the heart!!
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: A REAL CHALLENGE: Fermat's last theorem..
Date: 15 Apr 92 04:04:55 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Sunita K. Bhatia writes about "Re: A REAL CHALLENGE: Fermat's last theorem.."
to All  [14 Apr 92 15:00]

SKB>  In article <2246.29EA8497@kennel.FIDONET.ORG> 
SKB>  Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner) writes:

>Faust II writes about "Re: A REAL CHALLENGE: Fermat's last theorem.." to All
> [13 Apr 92 10:16]
>
>>Yeah; I spent a few weeks on it back in high school. Actually, I proved it.
>>The proof *is* elegant, but a bit on the long side. I'll see if I have time
>>to type it in later...
>
>FI>  Don't do that ! Copyright it, and get a noble prize before you 
>FI> send it in. (assuming you're right)
>
>He would do much better if he could win a Nobel prize.  Being noble is find
>and dandy, but winning the Nobel garners fame and fortune.

SKB>  Which would be great, except that *there is no Nobel prize for 
SKB> mathematics!* 

That's what I had suspected, but wasn't sure of.  However, if he can provide
that proof, I'm sure that we could somehow shoehorn it into the Nobel prize
for physics.

SKB> Now the Fields medal, on the other hand . . . . ;-) 

That, too.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: /T/ The 2% Rule
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 92 23:03:34 EST
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>twc@svcs1.UUCP (Ted Chan) writes:
>
>> I don't think "actively" and "minorities" mean what you think they mean.
>> I'd hate to think that I'm actively discriminating against fellow minority
>> members, but I'm sure you know better...
>
>Any African-American or Hispanic US MENSA members out there?

Yes. There are many.  What makes you think there are not.  There are active
Hispanics and African-Americans in my chapter.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
| Email: phil%miracle@merk.com  |  Peak time viewing blown in a flash,  |
|  -or-  phil.hill@channel1.com |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
| FAX:   (508)875-3297          |  'cause I'm alive." - Peter Gabriel   |
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: crossgl@infonode.ingr.com (Gordon Cross)
Subject: Re: A Truly International Gathering
Keywords: Mensa in Holland
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 21:09:37 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.210005.1021@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ehp@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU ("Didi Pancake") writes:

>I too am fond of Snowball and Mid-Winter Madness. Great Dismal Swamp in
>Virginia Beach, VA (the 2nd one--i.e. the actual first one--long story on
>that--was my first ever RG...hooked me for life) is fine, and the
>All-Carolinah! (moves around NC and SC) is usually pretty good also. Two
>of my long-time favorites are Rivers Three RG in Pittsburgh, PA over
>Labor Day,

It would seem that unless Asilomar goes downhill or goes away, I'll never get
the chance to check out Rivers 3 - they conflict and I'll never miss an
Asilomar!!!   :-(

>and the Pocono RG in Allentown, PA over Memorial Day. Hmmm,
>Pocano has probably been the most consistently excellent RG for me, part
>of which has to do with the venue.

Yes it was good in '91 when I was there.  But one question?  Why did *nobody*
dance at the luau??  They did play music ...

>If I ever win the lottery (guess I'd better start buying tickets if I
>expect that to happen, eh?) I'd like to take off and see how many RGs I
>could go to in a row before I just couldn't stand it any more and had to
>go home. Bet it would be a _bunch_! Wonder who presently holds the record
>for consecutive RGs attended?

I've been to RGs five (yes 5) consecutive weekends - pretty much burned me out
and so don't think I'll repeat that one!  (it was expensive too!)
-- 

Gordon Cross          UUCP:     uunet!ingr!infonode!crossgl   "all opinions are
111 Westminister Way  INTERNET: crossgl@infonode.ingr.com    mine and not those
Madison, AL 35758     MA BELL:  (205) 730-7842               of my employer."
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Issac Asimov
Date: 11 Apr 92 06:27:46 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Tim W Smith writes about "Re: Issac Asimov" to All  [10 Apr 92 20:41]

TWS> In "Asimov Laughs Again," he has a couple of Mensa stories. Before 
TWS> the first one, on page 139, he says, 

TWS>  "I was a member of Mensa for many years; Mensa is an  organization 
TWS> of high-IQ people. I never enjoyed my  membership, however. 
TWS>  "In the first place, I found that high-IQ people can be  just 
TWS> as stupid as low-IQ people--much more stupid, in  fact, because 
TWS> they think they are bright. They tend to  be mind-proud, veiw 
TWS> themselves as a persecuted minority,  and are, in general, unbearable.

TWS> 
TWS>  "The worst thing of all is that they are forever trying to  
TWS> challenge each other, and I was a particular target. The  young 
TWS> kids at Mensa were forever trying to shoot the old  man down, 
TWS> and I didn't want to play the game. Eventually,  I simply resigned." 

In case you missed it the first time around, a few years after he wrote that,
he rejoined Mensa, and remained a member until about a year before he died--at
which time, he resigned every organization he belonged to, because of ill health.
 He was close friends with Mensa's executive secretary and with a number of
influential Mensans.  He was for a long time, one of two honorary international
vice presidents of Mensa.  The honorary president was Buckminster Fuller.  Other
notable members are (or were until their death) Sir Clive Sinclair, Jean Auel,
Adrian Kronauer, F. Lee Bailey, Don Pedersen, Grace Hopper, and Theordore Bikel.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa