From: dallagata@udphvx.cineca.it
Newsgroups: alt.flame
Subject: Re: Intellectuals & women
Date: 24 Jan 93 01:40:23 +0000
Organization: None
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalf.fnal.gov

Sorry, Jason. I thought you had a mind, I discovered you are a 
moron, and since I AM IN MISSION FOR *GOD*, I flame you, up 
to the day that you'll die. Your fault, you are clueless.

In article <1993Jan23.220140.6476@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, jbl3g@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Jason Basinger Linkins) writes:
> In article <1993Jan23.133840.1@udphvx.cineca.it> dallagata@udphvx.cineca.it writes:
> 
> So let's clean that up.  "To have a child can be the most wonderful 
> experience for some women, but not necessarily for every woman."

Those women are losers.
>>
> This statement must be stricken.  You have no way of proving I am cold to any
> one but you.

You are cold because you are a moron. A woman that *decide* 
to have not children IS cold. Defending them , you ARE cold.
>>
> I agree.  Do you want to improve it?  Wake up.  Treat all human beings 
> (including women) as equals.

I do. Only speaking about rules and laws. I don't do it speaking 
about sex and feelings. You know, I don't like to fuck guys.
> 
AND HERE, THE PROOF THAT YOU ARE CLOSE MINDED:

> Guess what?  If a woman loves her career, and realises that getting pregnant
> and having to raise a child would keep her from doing the thing she loves
> (her career) then I believe it is perfectly fine for her to opt not to 
> have children.  Someone else will have children, instead, I'm sure.
> 
IDIOT, MORON, ASSHOLE, STUPID, COLD, FALSE *INTELLECTUAL* 
GUY! You did not understand any fuck! You are clueless, you 
belive on Santa Claus! 

THERE ARE *MANY* WOMEN THAT DECIDE TO HAVE NOT CHILDREN 
BECAUSE THEY ARE *AFRAID* TO *LOOSE* THEIR JOB!!!!!!!!

OK?!?!? Can you understand this?!?!? And that's NOT fair!
Jesus, you are an idiot.

Anyway, you flame yourself.

> It is not for me or you to decide what is best.

There are women that think that to have a children is 
something wonderful, (probably the most wonderful thing on 
life) but they are not proud enough to make them because this 
system DOES NOT LIKE THE MOTHERS THAT WORK! OK?
> 
> No, it is not cold.  I maintain, that it is not for me to decide.  If I got
> married to an actress, and told her, now that we're married, you are going to 
> have to give up acting and have a baby, THAT would be cold.

That's your mistake. The big one. I was going to understand 
that you thought only about actresses. You are wrong. 

============================================================
There are many women, with a regular job, that loose that 
job JUST BECAUSE THEY GET MARRIED! It does not happens to 
good actresses. I told you, your world is smaller than mine.
============================================================

I can fall in love with an actress, I can love her all my 
life, but IF she does not want to have children with me, I 
make children with somebody else (I do not enforce her, boy). 
But it is not a production of children, no. Probably, after a 
while, I rather stay with the mother of my children than with 
the sweet romantic actress. You *CAN'T* say that it is wrong.
I have the right to have children with somebody that I love.
> 
> Yet you suggest that society would be a better place if women would put
> having children ahead of the rest of their lives.

That's not what I suggest, moron. There are women THAT THINK IN 
THIS WAY, but are not able to decide. You don't know a fuck 
about women.
> 
> It is too bad that you have not witnessed the struggle of women, fighting
> to have those rights.  Many already work and have families.  Why
> don't you get your head out of your ass?

MANY?!?!? In which way? I am *sure* that MANY of them (women 
that work and have a family) would prefer to live in a 
system, THAT GIVES THEM MORE TIME TO LIVE WITH THEIR 
CHILDREN! I know it, moron. I don't speak only with fucking 
intellectual women, as you do. I spoke with all the classes 
of people on my life!@! Not like you that care only about 
your actress friends.
> 
> That's what I would like to see in this world:
>>Women fighting to improve the society giving to it the best 
>>of women culture (yes, even the concept of love for the 
>>children, instead of the concept of hate, that causes the 
>>wars, tipical of men, dear boy). 
> Why do you refuse to allow it to happen?

You refuse it, asshole. You are saying that the system is 
perfect, moron (YES, you said that telling me that:
" Many already work and have families.  Why don't you get your 
  head out of your ass?")
That's bullshit. They are not so many, and many of them are 
not really happy to do it! They do it because they HAVE to 
do it. But I already told you this.
>>
>>Why do they have to decide?
> Because we cannot decide for them.  It is cold.   It is not right.

Maybe I did not write clearly what I meant. I wanted to say: 
Why do they have to be *enforced* to decide that?!?
They are, trust me. 
> 
>  Why a woman DON'T 
>>HAVE TO BE HAPPY ANYMORE FOR BEING A MOTHER?!? 
> Because many people are fulfilled in other ways!  Where is it stated, 
> ALL WOMEN MUST BE MOTHERS.

You didn't understand any fuck! You think as a man, you are 
cold and asshole. Read what Moana wrote about her mother, and 
you will understand. Her mother decided to be *only* a mother,
Moana said that she does not want to be like her mother. But 
Moana also said that women (her) are proud to be mother. It 
means that she wants to have children too, one day. And a 
career. Ask to her if she thinks that it will be easy. 
Remember, for *us* (the men) it is *very* easy. Not for them.

If you don't understand this, you are a machine, a number.
> 
>>And now I also answer you about when I think that women 
>>behave like men:
>>
>>Women behave like men when they think that this system is ok.
> 
> I guarantee you that the same women who put their careers above childbirth
> are also the ones who believe the system is fucked.  

THEY ARE ALSO FUCKING THE SYSTEM!

>It is a fucked up
> male idea that the woman belongs "barefoot and pregnant."
						 ^^^^^^^^^
A male idea that ones in a while women are pregnant?!? You 
are out of mind, silly boy. It is just reality.
> 
>>This system is a male oriented system. For sure. To think 
>>that this system don't damage them and that don't hurt their 
>>feelings is stupid and dangerous, other than a *male* 
>>thought. If they think in this way, they behave as men, if 
>>they don't they have to try to change it. Easy, no?
> No, you make absolutely no sense.  You say that the system is male oriented.
> Fine.  Next you say that if women think that the system is not out to hurt
> them, they are stupid, perhaps true.  

At least you give me a point, once in a while.

>But what is this "other is a male
> thought?"  Makes no sense.  Your last sentence is a grammatical nightmare.

It means that, to think that this system is not fucking up 
women, it is a male thought. The women (my idea) had/have to 
*change* the system, and *not* to belong to the system. They 
did, but not enough. Therefore, the system it is still 
fucked up. I belive that women can change the system in a 
better way than men. That's the point. But many many women 
don't give a shit or, worse, they don't belive on theirself.

> If they think in what way?  If they think that the system is fucked, you
> mean?   How is that a "male thought".  And women must try to change the 
> system...including the part of that same fucked up system that says
> "women should be pregnant" and "it is okay for men to rape."

It is ok for man to rape was a joke, to try to let you 
understand, with your little mind, that here we were in 
alt.flame. You can't use the bullshit of the other posts to 
fight with me. I was not serious over there. 

They should be pregnant, it is a your invenction. 
No, you are right. I wrote it in another flaming post.
BUT NOT HERE IN "INTELLECTUALS & WOMEN", ok?

I never said that they should be pregnant. What I am trying 
to tell you, is THAT THERE ARE WOMEN THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE 
PREGNANT, AND WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A CAREER! And with the 
actual system, it does not work fine. Do you get the point, 
now?

Anyway, a big mistake of yours, is that you belive that 
hundreds years ago the women were not happy. That's only what 
you read on your fucking history books. Proove it, if you 
can, dear intellectual boy. Maybe, but just maybe, they
were happier than now. We don't know it, but somebody told 
us that they weren't. I don't belive it, I don't know it.
(yes, but my bet is that you are sure about it...)
	Michele
> 
Newsgroups: alt.flame