From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: Better Off Than Four Years Ago NOT
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi Inc, Phoenix AZ USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:37:46 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <1992Sep2.012357.10369@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM (QUOTE OF THE YEAR) writes:
]In article <la81loINNi@spim.mips.com>, mpolen@suntory.mips.com (Michael writes...
]>In article <1992Sep1.152133.25112@linus.mitre.org>, m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
]>|> 
]>|> Simple check:  When was the last report of a kid having a nightmare due to
]>|> the possibility that he, his parents, his community,... might be incinerated
]>|> while he slept?
]>|> 
]>|> Value comparison:  Which is more important to you?
]>|> 1. Having a good job tomorrow?
]>|> 2. Having a tomorrow?
]> 
]>I assume you are saying that Bush gets credit for all the good things
]
]I'm really tired of hearing how Bush, or even Reagan, is responsible for
]the downfall of Communism in Russia.
]	The fact is that America had very little to do with it, and 
]Reagan/Bush had only a fraction of that. Why doesn't anybody give any credit
]to the Afghani people who suffered increadibly (and are still suffering)
]in their fight against Russia (and I mean FIGHT, not just building bombs).
]What about Solidarnosc in Poland? What about the people of Western Europe,
]who had to look at barbed wire and gun turrets for 40 years?

What about the fact that all of those folks (with the possible exception
of the people of Western Europe, who did virtually nothing) credit
Ronald Reagan with winning the fight? How about the fact that Gorbachev
credit's Reagan's policies with forcing him to introduce the reforms that
ultimately lead to the collapse of the USSR? Reagan had three policies that
had a strong effect:
  -support of insurgent movements against communist regimes (the Reagan 
   doctrine)
  -support of an arms buildup - especially SDI
  -public condemnation of the Soviet system as evil.

]	But most importantly, what about the incompetance of the 
>Russian government which is mostly responsible for the downfall.
See above
]	If you want to give ANY credit to American presidents, then give
]it to Kennedy (Cuban missle crises), and Truman (Berlin crises).

You've got to be kidding about Kennedy. Kennedy is the guy who brought
us the continued dictatorship of Fidel Castro by reneging on his
promises to the Cuban resistance during the Bay of Pigs fiasco. To this
day I remember the disgust I felt when that happened. The missile
crises (which almost cost ALL of us our lives) was a direct result -
Khruschev felt that since Kennedy was such a demonstrated wimp, the
USSR could put nuclear weapons in Cuba (Khruschev has stated this).
By the way, the result of the Cuban missile crises was that the
Soviets had to remove missiles that they had never activated, while the
US had to guarantee that we would not interfere with one of the
hemisphere's biggest butchers - in perpetuity.

Now, to Truman. He certainly did a good job of standing up to
the Sovs in the Berlin crises. However, he was part of the administration
that agreed to the permanent enslavement of eastern europe as part of
the Yalta agreement, and he was the one who halted US troops that otherwise
would have conquered Berlin, leaving it INSIDE the western zone. The result
of having Berlin cut off in Eastern Germany gave the Soviets a pressure
point that they could threaten during every subsequent confrontation
(ie, you bomb Haiphong harbor, we'll cut off Berlin, etc).

Finally, Truman was on the scene almost 50 years ago, and the Soviet system
both survived and expanded its power during all of that time up until
Reagan.
]	Let's get real people. Reagan and Bush just happened to be
]on the watch when the collapse came.

Nice try, but the evidence is against you. Go ask a Pole, or a Russian,
whether they think Reagan's policies didn't have a major factor in the
collapse of the USSR.


-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
 - - Support ALL ...erk  glugh   mmpph.... Memory fault (core dumped)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc