HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes)
Subject: Re: It's a boy!  It's a boy!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:36:36 GMT

> Twin 'A', Noam Yefet, arrived at 6:43am weighing in at 6 lbs 15oz.
> Twin 'B', Tal Yair, arrived at 6:56am weighing in at 7 lbs 5oz.

Congrats and best wishes!!

> I expect this to be a real boost to my thesis productivity as I now
> have a rocking chair in front of my keyboard and can work on my thesis
> at 3am while I rock the babies.  All I need are two extra arms.

My thesis is due by 3/1/93, and our baby is due 1/19/93.  so I expect
the same "thesis productivity", maybe even worse since I'll be
breastfeeding.  But being out of work on maternity leave should(?)
help.  Can you say "vehemently work on my thesis over xmas break?"
At least all my classes are over 11/23....
Good luck with the thesis and the boys!

Christine
first-time-mom-2-b 1/19/93

From: neal@hpcndm.CND.HP.COM (Neal Bauer)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:32:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Incongruent discipline philosophies (Was: Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Organization: HP Network and System Management Division
Newsgroups: misc.kids

sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.180340.8580@bcrka451.bnr.ca>, seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson) writes:
>|> I do not believe in spanking, though I have had bad days and spanked my 
>|> children.  When I have done this, I have immediately apologized, explaining
>|> that I was very angry, but I should not have hit them.

>Thank you Seanna, for being so frank.  Your statement brings up an
>interesting question for misc.kid'ers on both ends of the spectrum...
>Is it "better" to believe in spanking and only use it in a rational manner
>when other methods fail, or is it "better" to _not_ believe in spanking and 
>use it in a moment of anger?

The latter is much better-- if you can handle it as well as Seanna did.

>The reason I ask is the same reason I question fossil-fuel-alternative
>radicals who drive automobiles and pro-spotted-owl people who live in
>wood houses.  Yes, we're all humans and make mistakes.  

Yes, we're all human and make mistakes.  And it's hard to admit that to
our kids.  Well, I suppose it's easy to make a general statement that
we're human and fallible and all that.  But to say "I was wrong.  I
shouldn't have done that.  I'm sorry" to your kids about something 
specific-- that's hard.

But look what a wonderful lesson Seanna gave her kids by doing so!
She showed them that she would be fair to them.  She demonstrated that
justice is more important than saving face.  And most important, she
*modeled* how a good person should act when she has done something 
wrong.  A thousand "Say you're sorry"s would not have been as effective
as one example.
From: newell@sequent.com (Donald Newell)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 5 Nov 92 09:34:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Nov5.093409.11146
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

In article <25822@optima.cs.arizona.edu> shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford) writes:
>[...]
>I have had a frightening experience with older children & matches:
>
>Kids are playing with matches *under* a mobile home.  A gas leak
>develops, and the gas company is called in.  They discover burned
>matches under the house and inform the mother.
>
>She jumps all over the kids about it and their reaction was "If it was
>so bad, why didn't you do something like spank us for it when you
>caught us before?"  That's a DIRECT quote -- I was there. (She wasn't
>a spanker at the time)



 I had a frightening experience with older children & a playground.
 A six year old was jumping from the top of the slide with my son.
 The other mother came out and started beating and spanking and hitting
 him. His reaction was "Please don't, please, please". 
 That's a DIRECT quote -- I was there.


 Don N.
Xref: sparky misc.kids:28187 sci.med:20776
From: donna@wyse.wyse.com (Donna Diloreto x2231 dept302)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,sci.med
Subject: Re: Age, aging, and appearance
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:29:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: wyse.3934
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

In article <1dei8bINNjpv@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes) writes:
>
>There's the common practice of estimating a person's age from physical
>appearance.  There were some postings from people in their twenties who
>look sixteen, and from people in their teens who look mid-twentyish.
>So I've been wondering if people who look young for their age in the
>teens and twenties continue looking younger than their true age
>throughout life, and if they age more slowly and live longer than
>average.  Conversely do people who look old for their age as teens
>continue to do so throughout life and age more rapidly and have shorter
>life spans than average?  
>

I, too, look a lot younger than I am.  Unfortunately, I haven't enjoyed
it too much.  At 21, I had my daughter.  Everyone thought I was a high-
schooler, instead the college senior that I was.  As my daughter became
a teenager, everyone thought we were sisters.  My daughter is now 14, I
am 35.  She looks like she's a freshman in college, I look like I'm 25.
She is 4 inches taller than me, and wears bigger shoes and clothes.  Poor
kid -- when she takes the baby out (6 1/2 mo old), everyone probably thinks
the baby is hers.

I should be happy that I look so youthful, but what I don't like is
everyone assuming that I was a teenage mother.  I also don't like
sales clerks, doctors, etc not taking me seriously because I look like
I am fresh out of college.  When I interview prospective engineers, they
think I only have a couple of years experience, not knowing that I've
been in the work force for over 13 years!

Sigh... My husband says I will happy I look young when I am in my 50's.
I hope that by then, I will get the respect an older person deserves.

Donna
mom to Paul 6 1/2 months
   and Sheila 14 1/2 months


-- 

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
Xref: sparky misc.kids:28381 sci.med:20914
From: pleeper@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Paulette Leeper)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,sci.med
Subject: Re: Age, aging, and appearance
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:28:53 GMT
Organization: IRP Corporate Data Planning - Dayton, OH

<1992Nov10.002720.2226197@locus.com> <3934@wyse.wyse.com>
<1992Nov11.073109.420@news.wesleyan.edu>
Reply-To: pleeper@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Paulette Leeper)
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: IRP Corporate Data Planning - Dayton, OH

In article <1992Nov11.073109.420@news.wesleyan.edu>
RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:

><*chuckle*>  I have the same problem. (Just last night when I ordered a glass
>of wine I got asked if I was old enough.  I'm 40, & have a daughter who's a 
>high school senior and a foster son who's 22 & getting married next weekend.)
>
In September, my husband and I went to the Octoberfest in Cincinnati
where you have to buy tickets to purchase beer.  We bought the tickets
without a problem, but when we went to turn them in for beer, the
woman serving (she was in her 50's) asked to see our ID's.  As we
laughed and celebrated and struggled to show her before she changed
her mind, she said she knew she made a BIG mistake by the looks on
our faces.  My husband is 36 and this event occurred about 4 days
before my 34th birthday!


-- 
Paulette Leeper                               paulette.leeper@daytonOH.NCR.COM
NCR Corporate Data Planning & Admin              ...!uunet!ncrcom!wtcp!pleeper
++++++++++++++++513-445-6289   VP 622-6289   FAX 513-445-2468+++++++++++++++++
From: jdietz@natinst.com (Jennifer Dietz)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Things My Parents Did Right
Date: 12 Nov 1992 12:13:33 -0600
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: eagle.natinst.com

In article <1dtv3mINNm5k@informatics.wustl.edu> bloch@wupost.wustl.edu (Charlene Bloch Abrams) writes:
>I think this is a great thread. My parents:

a lot of good stuff deleted....

>
>2. Never yelled at each other, or argued, or criticized each other in
>front of the kids.

*Never?!*  I think disagreement is only natural.  My folks always
presented a united front where us kids were concerned, but they had
discussions on numerous other topics :).  I think it all depends on
how it is done.  We *knew* our parents loved each other and would
never even *consider* splitting up.  We felt secure in that.  But they
did argue.  They also hugged and kissed and cuddled.  And once we were
old enough we understood that there probably wasn't much sleeping at those
Sunday afternoon naps :)!  By *not* showing the child all sides of the
relationship, I'd think maybe you were setting them up for a fall when
they got married and had their first fight.  It *has* to be okay to
disagree.  I also tend to think that maybe all my childhood friends
who thought that the idea of their parents "doing it" was gross maybe
were deprived of seeing their parents express affection for each other.
Don't get me wrong, my folks were discreet and tasteful but did show
affection.  Knowing how much they loved each other (and us) gave us a
security so that when they did argue (and they *both* had a stubborn 
streak :) we were never concerned.  We knew that it was okay to
disagree and it didn't mean there was no love.

(flame suit on :)

-jennifer

>
>
>Charlene
>
From: gelman@wallabee.lbl.gov (Frida Gelman)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: My tour of the hospital...
Date: 11 Nov 1992 20:27:25 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Reply-To: gelman@wallabee.lbl.gov (Frida Gelman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.49

Tracy Larrabee wrote about birthing stools, squat bars, etc at her hospital
tour and wondered how can an OB catch the baby while lying on the floor on
his/her back.

	My hospital doesn't offer birthing stools but I did push while
squating on the floor and holding on to the edge of the bed. Because I
was very uncomfortable pushing in the prone position with my first baby
I told the doc who showed up (not my regular OB, she never made it) that
this is my second child and I'm not pushing lying down. He said that he
is not delivering lying on the floor, so we compromised. I pushed in 
the position I've described with the OB on his knees behind me keeping
his hand on my perineum to feel the baby's head. After she crowned, the
nurses, hubby and the doc helped me on the bed where my daughter was 
delivered in the "traditional" position after one long push.

	About the episiotomies that someone asked about. I know countless
women who delivered large babies without any episiotomies and very minimal
if at all tearing. As far as I know that didn't affect their perenium 
muscles at all. I did have an episiotomy with my first baby, with the
second (since the doctor was a stranger) I did tell him that I wanted to
avoid epis this time and he said that it was up to me, but if he saw me
starting to tear he would recomend an epis and I can decide for myself.
In general, OBs or midwives can tell if you'll tear because they can see
the change in color and thickness of your perenium as you push. He did
tell me during my long push that I was starting to tear and I said "go
ahead and cut". A nice thing about a small epis (aside from the fact that
it heals within a week) is that it really cuts down on the pushing time.
Both of my babies literally flew out following episiotomy. Also I got
some local both times while they sewed me up so that part never bothered
me. My episiotomies were only about 3/4 in long though and only required
2-3 stiches so it was no big deal. I do know of so horrendous operations
that took forever to heal. A friend of mine is still feeling hers 6 months
after the fact. Hers was a necessary one (baby in distress, forceps 
extraction).


--
Frida Gelman 
All opinions are those of the author
gelman@imasun.lbl.gov
From: stanzi@media.mit.edu (Constance "Stanzi" Royden)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: newborns and cats
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:35:22 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

In article <1992Nov10.012451.16634@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> J.Osborne@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au writes:
>
>Post Script to this story - sadly when Jack was 15 months old my cat just
>disappeared. No-one down the road has seen anything of her, so whether she met
>with an accident or just couldn't stand having to share me with Jack I can't
>say. 

My condolences on the disappearance of your cat.  We also had a cat who
left home when Caitlin was about 2months old.  We think the new baby and
a cross-country move proved too much for him to take, so he left.  We
still miss him :-(.

>Jack loves animals so I'm thinking about getting a kitten after Christmas
>- I'm just not looking forward to having to litter-train and potty-train at the
>same time. I wonder whether I could just train both of them to use a box in the
>laundry?  

I would think twice about getting a kitten with an almost-2 year old around.
2YO's can be very hard on pets--it takes a long time to teach them how to
be gentle and not hit, chase or pull tails.  It's hard enough for an 
adult cat to defend or avoid this behavior, and kittens are at a 
distinct disadvantage.

I know of a family who's cat was ruined psychologically by being raised
with a 2YO.  The cat is very afraid of people (and even shy of his
owners) and spends much time hiding in cupboards or drawers.  If you
really want a pet now, you might think of getting an adult cat.
Otherwise, you might want to wait until your son is significantly
older (4 or 5) before getting a kitten (he will probably be able
to appreciate a kitten more at that age anyway).

Just my $.02 worth.

--Stanzi Royden
From: biddleco@mizar.usc.edu (Susan Biddlecomb)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 5 Nov 1992 10:20:27 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov5.153951.21920@cs.brown.edu> mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine) writes:
(stuff deleted about childproofing -- which never worked for us either)

>should play in the (childproofed) living room while I cook.  My husband
>has inadvertently left a permanent marker on the mantle.  In the two
>minutes or so between times that I check up on them, my 23-month-old
>has climbed onto the table, grabbed the permanent marker (she loves
>to scribble) and scribbled all over herself, including in her mouth
>(eeek!  are these things poisonous?).
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(more deleted)

A recent experience with permanent markers: Angelica wanted to use one
for fingernail polish and her dad didn't see any problem -- in fact he's
the one who painted her fingernails. Two days later she was complaining 
about her fingers hurting. Every single finger was infected below the cuticle.
Ouch. All it took was a sterile needle and some alcohol but she has never
even touched a permanent marker since then. I'd say treat them like scissors
and knives.

Susan




Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: nelson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Nelson)
Subject: Re: Class Sizes
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:20:00 GMT

In article <2379@gandalf.intel.com> linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin) writes:
>I, too, remember classes with 30-35 kids in them with no teacher's aid/help,
>and my teachers got along just fine.  However, I do think one of the problems
>of large class sizes now days is that there is no punishment allowed by the
>teacher and the kids know that so they are less inclined to behave.  I am not
>saying I think there should be punishment in the classrooms, but I remember
>many, many times when a teacher would swat a misbehaved student across the
>bottom with a ruler or a paddle.  Just knowing they may get paddled could
>have been enough of an incentive to keep some students in line - I know it was
>for me.  
>
>But now days, kids KNOW they can get away with almost anything and the
>teachers cannot discipline them.  Overall, I think the students are more
>unruly than they used to be.  Blame it on the parents, or the system, or
>anything you want.
>
>***************************************************
>	Linda Harbin       Hillsboro, Oregon 

In Canada we have a set of law(rights) known as the Young Offenders Act.
It protects the identity of young accused and/or conficted criminals
(under 18). It also limits jail time to a maximum of 3 years.

I would worry about teachers dishing out corporal punishment
here when a student knows he could seriously harm or kill a
teacher and only face 3 years in a youth detention centre.

They will try young offenders as adults but usually only
in pre-meditated murder cases.

Mike N.
From: jbyrd@chpc.utexas.edu (Jan Byrd)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Diaper Services - worth it ?
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:37:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: chpc.1992Nov9.203747.16677
Organization: Center for High Performance Computing, Univ. of Texas System

In article <owens.721325099@gargoyle.uchicago.edu>, owens@gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Christopher Owens) writes:
|> In <EezN0zq00VB1M49nw_@andrew.cmu.edu> mh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mary Hart) writes:
|> 
|> > Environmentally speaking, I felt good about using cloth rather than 
|> > disposables, and that was worth a lot to me.
|> 
|> Recent analysis (See the Friday, October 24th New York Times or the
|> November 1992 Consumer Reports; this also from personal communication
|> with a friend at the EPA) makes it appear that the environmental
|> issues in the cloth-vs-disposables decision are more complex than we
|> had thought.
|> 
|> The major environmental bad actors for disposables are water pollution
|> resulting from the bleaching of the raw materials, and landfill use.
|> The bad actor for cloth is water use and sewage generation from the
|> washing.  Some of the articles cite the gasoline burned by diaper
|> service delivery trucks, but I'll bet that applies equally to cloth
|> and disposables.
|> [snip'd]

With my first 2 children - grown now - I used cloth diapers (because that's
essentially all there was; Pampers were brand new, very expensive, and
not very absorbent at all), and I washed the cloth diapers at home myself.

I used diaper service for almost a year with baby #3.  I don't recall the
actual numbers, so the following may be an over- or under-statement, but
the promotional material advertising the diaper service said that the
diapers are first rinsed 4 times, then washed 3 times, then rinsed 4 more
times, all in water temperatures close to boiling.  That's a tremendous
amount of water, energy for heating the water, and detergents returned to
the water system.

I LIKED diaper service, and I felt secure that the diapers were "cleaner"
than if I had washed them myself, but I truly never felt I was "saving the 
environment" by not using disposables.  In fact, as COMPACT (have you 
noticed how SMALL the packages have gotten?) and as ABSORBENT as dis-
posables are these days (so that babies don't use as many in a day as they 
used to), the actual space occupied in the landfills by disposables is 
probably less than it was just a few years ago, although the effect on 
ground water would be essentially the same, since all that pee and poop is 
still there, just encased in fewer disposables :-).

Jan
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: ren@Turing.ORG (Karen Prestemon)
Subject: Kindercare at Work
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 12:39:12 GMT


I answered a notice in the paper about an administrative assistant
position a a local Kindercare.  I had the job interview yesterday,
and it tunrs out that the psoition involves working for a woman
who sets up Kindercare at Work.  I guess the objective is to
contract with businesses and provide them with on-site child
care.  Sounds like a good idea to me!

Anyway, the job sounds really terrific, and I am doing a little
more homework at the library this weekend, but since I have no
children and no daycare experience, I was just wondering if 
anyone has any personal experience with Kindercare at Work?
What did you think?  Please email!

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom)
Subject: Re: After The Stork sizes
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:59:34 GMT

In article <27355@oasys.dt.navy.mil> dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst) writes:
>I remember a discussion here recently about how "After the Stork" clothes
>fit.  In particular, I am considering getting some of the long underwear
>for use as pajamas, but I seem to remember someone (Tigger?) saying
>they were tall and thin fitting, which definitely DOESN'T describe my
>son.  Any comments, anyone?  Thanks.
>

I bought some, and when they came I was dismayed at how small they were.
Jeffrey is a particularly stocky child. But, that fabric streches (and isnt
tight when being worn), and is just fine. They wear well too.

I do buy one size larger then they recomend. Jeffrey is about 3'+ and 
weighs about 30 lbs. He fits in the size 4s just fine. If you are looking
for 100% cotton jammies, they are the best bargain around. Another good
bargain in cotton longjohns is Carters. You can usually find them at Kids
R Us or Mervys for about $10-12. Sorry if those are regional chains. He
also wears a 4 in them.

Laura Floom
From: sbaum@margala.FtCollins.NCR.com (Susan Baum)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: "New Mothers Room" in the workplace
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:22:14 GMT
Reply-To: sbaum%cad@MCC.COM (Susan Baum)
Organization: NCR MED, FT. Collins, CO. 80525  (303) 223-5100

I am in the process of proposing to our company's personnel director and
plant manager that we create a "New Mothers" room to provide breast
feeding mothers with a decent place to express and then store their milk.
Our corporate sales office already has such a room, complete with electric
breast pump and mini refrigerator, table and chair, so at least the
precedent has been set.

Does anyone know of any other companies which provided such a place
(besides a stall in the ladies room!), and if so, what was provided in the
room (refrigerator, pump, etc...) and suggestions on justifications for why
this can be beneficial to the employer (i.e., encourage more women to
return to work).


Susan Baum
sbaum@ftcollinsCO.ncr.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: newell@sequent.com (Donald Newell)
Subject: Re: Incongruent discipline philosophies (Was: Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 15:08:07 GMT



     This is for your own good.

     I hope you learn from this.

     No more warnings.

     You must understand my authority.

     Stop crying or I'll hit you again.

     We love you honey, that's why we did that.


There is little distance between discipline and child abuse, and the degree
of punishment meted out in many families is often at odds with information
about the physical and psychological vulnerability of children. Spanking is
considered an acceptable method to discipline and socialise our children.
People just don't believe that kids are hurt by a swat, spank, slap or shake.
Religion often enters into the discussion, with proclamations that God has
directed us to discipline children with the rod and the hand. And the
proponents of spanking denounce the busybody, permissive parents who tell
them not to punish their children as they - and their god - see fit. The
social calculus seems to be "don't criticize my parenting methods and I won't
criticize yours". I reject that. Good parents, good people, can do bad things.
We all do. Spanking is once such bad thing. It is absolutely clear that other
methods work as well. Why not use them?

        Tell your child how scared you are if they run into the street.

        Tell your child you're willing to help when they are ready
        to cooperate.

        Explain why you can't buy that toy, and why crying doesn't make
        money appear.

        Show them what a match does.

        Let them have bad days the way you do your spouse (or yourself).

The goal we should have is to convince the lurkers, the prospective parents,
the undecideds, that there are workable alternatives to spanking.


 Don N.
Newsgroups: misc.kids