HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: education...
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:10:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep29.121050.15943
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <1a8sj6INNrc0@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.005812.15928@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>>one). I am sure that Russian education is
>>not really better than American one, and a lot worse
>>with respect to the way American teachers are paid
>>and American schools are funded. 

>You mean Russian schools are funded better or worse than American?

Is my English *so* bad? Worse :) Look at any American school.
At least in Camridge, they are splendid. Luxurious. Pleasant
to look upon. No classes with 45 kids per one teacher. No teachers
with the same salary as the cleaning baboushka. Libraries.
TV sets. Computers. Good furniture. 

Misha.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin)
Subject: Re: ``Moon's ass''
Organization: Institute for Theoretical Physics
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 04:22:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.001621.20909@dxcern.cern.ch> GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg) writes:
>In <1992Oct02.144633.35460@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com writes:
>> When I wrote BACKSIDE, I thought maybe I should use something like Moon's ASS.
[...stuff deleted...]
>Not arguing with the rest of the post I would just like to mention that the
>term ``Darkside of the Moon'' is used not only as a scientific. It belongs
>to art and literature as well, e.g. Pink Floyd's ``DS of the Moon''

BACKSIDE is not necessary a DARKSIDE and vice versa. Also some species of this
planet have their (sorry!) ASS neither on their BACKSIDE, nor on the DARKSIDE
(they do not have it), but rather on their BOTTOMSIDE. Also Moon does not have
an ASS (obvious SCIENTIFIC fact), though if you think of art you can easily
imagine somebody's artwork that shows our (better say Earth's) Moon in the
form of a helicopter with an ASS somewhere. So you can continue the discussion
forever, but I'll better play a game of BattleZone...

 See ja on the MOON with your BACKSIDE inside your ASS (like Klein bottle!)

P.S. ASS is not a DARKSIDE also, because:
 1) it is not a SIDE
 2) one can insert a lightbulb inside and it will be s LIGHTEDCAVITY

 ______________________________________________________________________________
| Eugene N. Tyurin            |                                               |
| Physics Dept., Stony Brook  | I do not need a disclaimer, I need a CLAIMER! |
| gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu |                                               |
|_____________________________|_______________________________________________|
From: root@tbucks.com (Timothy E. Buchanan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: NEW VISA SYSTEM FOR CIS
Date: 1 Oct 92 02:31:41 GMT
Organization: tbucks.com (private bitty-box)
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

voykhans@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu () writes:

: In article <92272.102555IO81373@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, <IO81373@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
: >      Question being:  What do I have to do as an american wanting
: > to visit the CIS in order to get a Visa NOW????  I just spent a year
: > in Austria and didn't get to the CIS because the visa requirements
: > were so strict (required basically that I either go with a group or
: > that I'm invited by someone).  Is all this a thing of the past??

: Dear Dougly,
: I cannot answer your question but if you need to get in inventation and
: are not ablt to get one, e-mail me privetly: you reasons to visit CIS

Invitations are still required. My wife and I are planning a trip to Russia
in December and January. I have to get an invite from her parents. She is
not able to invite me because she is not a permanent resident of the US,
according to the Consulate (still signing itself the Soviet Consulate in
places). She _is_ a permanent resident, by our INS, and has the pink (not
green) card. But becoming a US resident for the XSU'rs will take many
months, and $ 345.00!

For this reason also, I must obtain an invitation for her to return to the
US with me! This form costs $75.00.

We asked her parents to get the izveshchenie for us, and I am wondering
what this will cost them? Anyone know?

--
Timothy.


      ------- Time is our only resource, humor our only defense. -------
From: cema@cs.umd.edu (Simon Hawkin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: CIS on the internet
Date: 26 Sep 92 20:27:29 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <60636@mimsy.umd.edu> vadik@cs.umd.edu (Vadim Maslov) writes:
>
> <...> There are many places in xSU
>connected to e-mail but certainly not to Internet.
>That is, (almost) nobody in xSU can use ftp, talk, nntp and other
>Internet features.

Not quite right. When I was cema@paragraph.msk.su, I could ftp.
However, not in a real-time fashion. As far as I know, a machine
in @kiae.su is calling another machine @fuug.fi (in Finland)
every 4 hours or so.

>Adresses of places in xSU look like they are Internet addresses,
>but in reality these are computers connected by modems
>using UUCP protocol (so addresses should have UUCP a!b!c format?).

Again, I was cema@paragraph.msk.su. We actually used UUCP
protocol (I don't remember the version; we were able to use
mail under MS-DOS.)

---
This is Simon Hawkin from Merry Land.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@netcom.com (Oleg Kiselev)
Subject: Re: American Education/Soviet Education
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 09:06:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct02.134616.28692@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>There is only one God.

Hindus will dispute that.
-- 
Oleg Kiselev at home			...use the header to find the path
From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 08:03:53 GMT
Subject: Yuri Ustimenko: Greetings from an old acquaintance
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet

I am posting this note for a friend in the San Francisco. 

Her message is simply a 'hello and I remember you well' to Yuri Ustimenko.  
She says that she enjoyed the talks they had at his office in San Francisco
when he was stationed there with TASS. If anyone runs into this guy, please
give him this message from Kris Voronovsky. 

thanks...

(e-mail to me will get to her eventually.)
From: kkr42091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (QUEEN ZENOBIA!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Visa requrements.
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:47:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvD0Ir.Er2
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

can anyone tell me how to obtain a visa to travel in russia now? is there a 
consulate in chicago? i have the intention of going to visit friends... do 
they need to ask on their end? 
Also does anyone know if the Trans-siberian railway is still functional?

The visa requirements are for a Finn and an American.

We would like to travel in the summer.
Also what is the last exchange rate for USD into Rubles
?
the last time i saw it was something like 210rubles to USS
er  1 USd.

thanks for any info
bolshoe spasiba

-kimberli roan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: mashina <novost@halcyon.com>
Subject: Russian Poetry Re: Pesnya Korobejniki
Originator: novost@halcyon.com
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 15:02:18 GMT

 When I made the original enquiry about this poem, I had
made a mistake by assuming that the Korobejnika was of the
feminine gender, which HE is not.  (This is evident from
the verbs used by the speaker in the poem).  I received
an off-line reply to this poem from a person who said that it
was written by  H. A. HEKPACOB.  Additionally, that there are
more verses to this poem.  This person also thought that it
has evolved into into a folk song and that the music may be
that which accompanies the Nintendo Tetris game.  I have
some of the music, and will check and see it it is the same
music as Nintendo game or close.

             Jeff
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 29 Sep 1992 07:37:01 CDT
From: ---  BORYS  --- <U52539@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Anybody out there from Wayne State U.?

  I'm trying to reach anybody from the Ukrainian Club at Wayne State U.
in Detriot via E-mail.  If anybody knows of someone please send me a line to
either u18588@uicvm.uic.edu     or
       u52539@uicvm.uic.edu


Borys Bodnaruk
University of Illinois at Chicago
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: If you don't like it here.....
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1992 13:34:16 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <92100570@tbucks.com>  root@tbucks.com (Timothy E. Buchanan) writes:
>In the last few weeks, thanks to kind persons in this newsgroups, I have
>learned that-
>
>1- Soviet educational system is far superior to that of US.
>
>To these I comment-
>
>1- About one-quarter of PhD's are awarded to non-americans, who evidently
>come here to make use of our deficient system. This educational system is
>good enough to turn out people capable of inventing the microchip, the
>transistor, of setting the world standards for computer operating systems,
>and so on.

We are the best! We are great! We are doing fine. We are right on track.
Doing fine. Super. OK! We are the best. We are great.

It makes me sad that after hearing all the arguments, you could come up
with this instead of clenching your jaws and writing to your state legislature
or just visiting your local school.

Oleg V
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: More education talk...
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:19:18 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <Bv5oKq.855@news.cso.uiuc.edu> didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
>lenivch@maclaurin.mit.edu (Witold Biedrzycki) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep25.134637.19566@watson.ibm.com> oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky) writes:
>>>In  <1992Sep24.142159.5995@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>  sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
>>>(seth.r.rosenthal) writes about American education:
>>>> Memorization is discouraged, understanding
>>>> is encouraged.
>
>
>>Oleg is right here. When I taught calculus, as a graduate student,
>>the students expected to be given "cookbook recipes". I saw very
>>little desire to understdand why these things actually work.
>
>
>>Witold
>
>>>equivalent to Soviet 'podgotovitel'naya gruppa detskogo sada'.
>>>
>>>Oleg
>
>Correct me if I am wrong, but I heard that students in Russia, just study
>before exams, and forget everything right after exam is taken. So, if you
>say that american students only interested in "cookbook recipes", how would
>you characterize russian students?
>
>-------Garik.

    The average Russian student, having worked hard to get admitted into
    a college/university, is more interested in having fun than studying.
    However, there are a few hurdles to overcome, such as:

        rigid curriculum: everybody in one's class goes through the same
        sequence of exams at the same time, and if one can't keep up,
        he/she is out.  Another word, one can't study indefinitely, nor
        earn credits by taking on easier subjects;

        failure to pass an exam on time can easily cost one his deferrment 
        from the draft (and, as a result, being brutalized for 1.5 years, 
        and brutalizing others for another 6 months), while a "C" often 
        results in one losing his/her stipend (60% of min. wage) in the 
        next semester;

        there are usually no coursebooks to speak of, one is supposed to
        take notes while in class.  By the exam time, few people have a
        complete set of notes, and the amount of material given in class 
        is such that even the best set of notes could not adequately cover it.

    Here you have it: some notes scattered around the course, a long list
    of course-related references (10-20 titles) half of which are missing 
    from the library anyway, four days between the exams, and a high pressure 
    to succeed.  In an environment like this, one's understanding of the subject 
    as well an ability to operate with a limited amount of factual data becomes
    more important than being able to memorize the entire "cookbook".
    And yes, right after the exam, it is time to flush one's memory cache 
    clean (usually with alcohol:) to make room for the next challenge.


    



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: oleg@netcom.com (Oleg Kiselev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: More education talk...
Keywords: Russian students, "cookbook recipes."
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:07:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.2x+p01.oleg
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep29.135430.33221@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>1. Selective citation out of context is also a sign of a "feeble mind".

What selective citation?  Here is the fragment from your article without
re-spacing it:

In article <1992Sep28.142827.17509@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>Kind of strange - at least 4 grammar errors in  one paragraph. Should be
>tough Ph.D.

This is the exact quote.  Spot the error.

>FYI - original article was about high quality of Ph.D. programs
>for farmers in US as well as high quality of US public schools. 

I don't care what it was about.  A PhD in Engineering or Science does not 
imply perfect typing skills.

>2. Please, apply your posting to itself, and result of this application 
>to own mind.

I always do, which is why I don't fault others for the spelling and grammar
errors.

>>Besides, those were typos, not simple grammar errors. 
>So what? Is it OK for Ph.D. in US? Or typos are OK for HS graduate in US?

It's the USENET, not a PhD thesis or a Letter to the Editor.  Most people do
not spend hours proof-reading and oerfecting their postings to the NET --
they simply don't have the time.  Often the typos are caused by the slow
machine responce or by the line noise, etc.  You could understand what the 
fellow wroteso why not attack him on the points of substance instead of
nit-picking his typos?  

>Explain, please - I know only education norms in Russia, where 
>typos were (grammar) errors.

I can't spell in either language and my grammar is attrocious.  It reflects
the amount of effort and time I spent on the grammar and spelling part of my
education.  So?

This reminds me of the old Soviet "A escho v ochkah!" rejoinder.
-- 
Oleg Kiselev at home			...use the header to find the path
From: DeVoid@cup.portal.com (David - Lyall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Invitations?
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 92 00:56:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <920930562@tbucks.com>

>: >      Question being:  What do I have to do as an american wanting
>: > to visit the CIS in order to get a Visa NOW????  I just spent a year
>: > in Austria and didn't get to the CIS because the visa requirements
>: > were so strict (required basically that I either go with a group or
>: > that I'm invited by someone).  Is all this a thing of the past??
>
>Invitations are still required. My wife and I are planning a trip to Russia
>in December and January. I have to get an invite from her parents. She is
>not able to invite me because she is not a permanent resident of the US,
>according to the Consulate (still signing itself the Soviet Consulate in
>places). She _is_ a permanent resident, by our INS, and has the pink (not

        So why the heck are invitations still required? Individual tourism
is a huge money maker for many countries. Russia and all of the CIS could be
making some hard bucks if they would allow people to just visit for the heck
of it. 'Course, cheap travellers hotels would make it a lot easier too.
	BTW, I saw on "Northern Exposure" a few weeks ago where a character
said he was going to DRIVE to Russia through Alaska. Take a ferry to Siberia.
Is this really possible now? I'd like to take a motorcycle trip to Alaska and
then NovoSibirsk. (sp?)
	Maybe bring back a "Ural" BMW clone? Guess it wouldn't be possible to
sell a Harley in Russia tho...

\  / |  /\    |+ /\ |+  == /\ |    \\//
 \/  | / -\   |  \/ |\  | /- \|__  //\\
+----------------------------------------+
==> J. David Lyall > DeVoid@cup.portal.com
From: didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: How to balance...
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:17:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvCL98.7DK
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

If there is something I learn in life, it would be that in Life one makes 
choices so as to create some kind of balance.  When one makes a political
decision, it is also made to create a more balanced situation. With this
in mind, let us get back to America/American Education/Ame...

America is a country with a strong capitalistic political system and deep
rooted libertarian views. In this country a "balance" is created that is
unlike any other in the world.  Not everyone likes this balance, however
there are a lot of us who do.  Moreover, and this is my own opinion, this
is a "balance" that changes slowly, but surely is going towards improvement.

What is this balance today? We live in society where we are responsible for
our individual choices and where every person has a right to start a business
and run it in the way he/she finds most suitable (let's start with these two).
What is the other side of this balance, a school system where a student has
to choose what subjects he wants to study (and hence, can choose an easy load),
and a lot of ads on TV (just to mension two).  We can go on making a point
about what is good about America and giving a counterpoint, but the fact remains
there are a lot of people who feel that America is a great country in which to
live.

We can go to any other country in the world, and we will find people that will
feel that the balance of thier country is the best.  It will be impossible to
argue with them because for every bad of their system, they will find you
something good.  It seems that what it all comes down to is individual choice.

My individual choice is America, because it is a country that gives its
citizens a lot of opportunities.  And I do not choose any other country for
the same reason.  My opinion may change as world changes and as I get wiser
(hopefully), but for now, you tell me what is wrong with this country and 
will find you what is good in this country.  I can also discuss problems of 
this country, and will give you examples of people who are trying to do 
something to change things, as well as counterarguments to your suggestions.

----Garik.

ps. If you find grammer mistakes, correct them, make three copies of each
corrected and incorrect versions, and send them to your 3 best friends. Or
even better, stuff them in ....
From: verbit@widder.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: More education talk...
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:52:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep29.175217.15951
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <1992Sep29.183636.20765@u.washington.edu> nobby@milton.u.washington.edu (Vitaly Shmatikov) writes:


>and it's not their fault. As for prominent computational mathematics
>scientists I would like to get some names. If you mean people like
>Acad. Tikhonov, Kostomarov, etc. then I don't buy it. I don't care
>about their scientific achievements since they are notorious 
>anti-Semites and in the early 80s succeffully concluded 'ethnic
>cleansing' of the department having driven almost all Jews out of there.
>These people (BTW they are in charge of VMiK up to now) *really* stink.


I have to admit that Vitaly is in most part right. VMK is the
most notoriously antisemitic department in the whole MSU, never
mind Mekh-math. The following is a semi-folklore story told
me by one very well-known man, now one of chief organizers
of Moscow Independent University. Since I have not got his
permission, I will not right here his name, but I am sure
some netters know of him.

The narrator was a friend of Rem Khokhlov, this time a
rector (president) of MSU. Khokhlov was a bright scientist (physicist)
and a honest man, what is a really rare quality for MSU
rector nowadays :). He was very depressed by the
antisemitism of mekhmat chief officials: they were gone
a lot further than the official party line. While in most
departments and colledges (such as the chemistry dept of
MSU and FizTekh) antisemitism was a measure forced by KGB
and party officials, on Mekhmat it was an official line of 
thoughts for people there. He wanted to cleanse Mekhmat
from antisemites, and planned to close it, merge 
Mekhmat and VMiK, and then reopen Mekhmat anew without the scum.
Partly, he succeed: a lot of scum came to VMiK which was
scummy enough already. But when he wanted to close
Mekhmat, Kolmogorov became afraid that he will never
succeed in opening it afterwards and plead him not
to close. The project was postponed, and then Khokhlov
died accidentally after some sort of concussion while
on the holidays in mountains. The result: scummy Mekhmat
and astonishing even in comparison VMiK. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: CIS on the internet? Why not?
Date: 27 Sep 1992 17:44:22 -0400
Organization: Berkeley Software Design
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

Yury, what are you calling for? To reduce RELCOM prices? It's
hardly possible. The main lesson of capitalism is that there's
no such thing as a free lunch. Somebody got to pay for it.
There is no such thing as a free net. It can live on donations
like SUEARN does or GlasNet *did*. It can exist on enthusiasm of
individuals and their own (in US) or their employers (in ex-SU)
hardware like FidoNet (not that it REALLY works). It can be
a government program paid for by taxpayers; in USSR and new countries
those programs are basically doomed (like Akademset'). Finally it
can directly charge their users without any forms of socialist-type
gathering and distribution. So far, the latest form is the only
effective for public services because it allows for competition
and is able to concentrate enough capital to make a difference
(like purchasing dedicated hardware and buildings and investing
in communication infrastructure) and create sufficient political
power (FYI, RELCOM broke Ministry of Communications' legal monopoly
on providing communication services). It's not amateurish toys.

As for the networking services are not affordabe it's the question
to the government -- why can't it support its own research institutes.
So far, together with the daily dozens of new users i don't see the
RELCOM prices are not affordable. If you can make it cheaper -- launch
your own network and compete with RELCOM. I wholeheartedly wish you
success. The competition it what the whole society benefits from.

However, i can safely guess you're not going to do it; then, stop
whining. It is not constructive.

--vadim