HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Desi-American careers (Was Re: Did anyone attend the IA convention
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:49:14 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <1992Aug21.190557.19951@news2.cis.umn.edu>,
shiv@htlv.med.umn.edu (Shiv Prasad) writes:
|>From: shiv@htlv.med.umn.edu (Shiv Prasad)
|>Subject: Re: Desi-American careers (Was Re: Did anyone attend the IA
convention
|>Date: 21 Aug 92 19:05:57 GMT
[Stuff Deleted]
|> Since people equate money with success, there will always be those who
|>go for the big $$ careers.  The rest of us just have to be satisfied that
|>we're doing something that we enjoy, and still hopefully living comfortable,
|>but not necessarily extravagantly.
|>
|>From what you've written above, the leaders may not come from those who are
|>busy "passing state exams and getting too many hours to work."  Leaders
|>may come from the "rest of us" who can already see that opulence does not
|>define one as truly successful (spoken like the impoverished grad student
|>that I am).  Let's face it, if you spend you life amassing wealth, you're
|>giving up other things that may turn out to be equally important.
|>
|>Shiv
                              
I don't see anything wrong with people aspiring for success. The problem 
arises when you desis look down upon you if you're not a "Loctor." 
Because I'm an engineer, (hey, how come we're not included as Loctors? :))
I personally don't face this type of crap that often. My older bro studied
International Relations and when I or he tells desis that's what he 
studied, a discernable frown can be seen on their faces. 

I had a desi-am buddy who switched from pre-med to child psychology, and his
family almost went ballistic on him. He was treated like crap by a lot of
the rest of the desis he knew. Anyways, I was glad to see that he had the 
guts to do it then, even if he is studying law now.

I had another desi-immigrant friend who finished his MS in eng and wants to
study law, because that's where the money is.

I personally want to get out of engineering and get into something that 
really pays well, teaching. :)

My point is that with all of the aspirations and successes of desis, we 
sometimes tend to look down at people who don't kill themselves for their
careers. Even though I fight it, I know that I'm guilty of this myself.

Ron
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Miss. Masala and City of Joy
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:24:51 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology


Miss. Masala was an ok movie, and it opened my eyes that we really are a 
diverse group, desi-americans that is. 

Unlike Manish, I did not find the actress all that attractive. That 'exotic
woman' stuff must be wearing off. :)

Someone asked what people thought about "City of Joy." 
I thought it was visually very interesting and graphic, but the story was 
definitely corny. It almost reminded me of some of the corny Hindi movies
that I've seen. As a matter of fact almost every Desi movie that I've 
seen has been the tragic romance and song and dance type.

There is one exception though, "Salaam Bombay." That was an excellent movie
and really opened up my eyes to a society that I took for granted. The scene
that really touched me was the Wedding, where the kids were all dressed up 
and serving the spoiled children. I've only traveled to India a couple of
times, and because I don't speak any of the languages, the servants always
seemed like automatons. It was a really fascinating portrayal.

Any other Desi films worth exploring? 

Ron
From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Attraction and raddishes...
Keywords: Hogwash.
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:00:31 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

===================================
 mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij) writes:
>Sexual attraction is the spice of life. 

 Alternatively: sex is the spice. 
		Love is the meal. 
		Friendship is the oven (where you melt cheese on raddish)
		Personality is the cheese.
		Dating is grocery (raddish?) scoping..

		Sometimes, the oven doesn't work - alas, because the cook
		and the raddish are incompatible. 

 Different individuals, different tastes.
 Note : Raddishes do walk and have a mind/personality of their own. :)

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: shiv@scrapie.med.umn.edu (Shiv Prasad)
Subject: Desi-American careers (Was Re: Did anyone attend the IA convention last week)?
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:39:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.003201.4896@novell.com> mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij) writes:
>Some interesting stats from her book:
>
>* 50% of 2nd-gen Indo-Americans plan to be M.D.'s
>
>(This is fertile ground for a career thread.  I'll flame this later
>when I have time.)
>
>
Obvoiusly I have the time now.  It seems that with most immigrant parents, not
just the Desis, they want unfettered success for their children.  The careers
which most ostensibly offer wealth and community respect are Lawyers and
Doctors (henceforth termed "Locktor).  Parents may then pressure their children
into these fields (doing the wrong thing for the right reason).  Quite a few of
my second generation friends are in medicine. dentistry or law, some for the
dedication to the field, and others for the money.  But let's be fair, there are
many nth generation Americans in these fields for the same reasons, and it is
still quite prestigeous in American families for the children to be Locktors.

I'd say that 50% is very high, but when further generations realize that other
careers are attractive, that percentage will drop.  What's most important is
that the young desis get educations that open their minds to all that is 
vailable, and they will be able to make wise choices.
>
>
>Manish
>                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
>   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
>   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
>   mvij@novell.com                              \_/.  .  . . ........

Shiv Prasad

P.S. Manish, I finally figured out what that organic chem. molecule in your
.sig is.  Doing a wheelie won't help you set off those traffic detectors at
the intersection.

1984 VT700C, sold before moving to MinneSNOWta.
From: shashi@aix3090b.uky.edu (Shashi Sathaye)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Did anyone attend the IA convention last week?
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:26:27 GMT
    <1992Aug20.003201.4896@novell.com>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij) writes:
>So . . . from those of you who are older: How feasible has your balancing
>act been?  I'm not suggesting we throw out the baby with the bathwater;
>I'm suggesting we keep the wonderful elements of Indian culture and throw
>out the not-so-wonderful ones.
I have a question about this..
Why does older imply traditionalist?  I am reading this in the phrase 
'balancing act' that you use.
As far as I can tell, myself and few of my friends were 'quite a radical bunch'
to our elders. As I moved on with life, I am surprised to find 'traditionalists'
in people of all ages. 
I have found how far I can go against many 'traditions'
but will hesitate to push anyone else - unless they themselves want to do so.
Changing traditions takes a lot of energy and it is intersting how quickly
today's rebels become tomorrow's traditionalists.
For example,
It took a generation of 'social reformers' to get society - the one I grew up 
in, the rules change in different sectors of Indian people - to accept women
marrying at a 'later' age -  arranged or not..
It only amuses me to find my generation parents struggling to keep their 
daughters from 'getting too involved in a relationship too early in life.'
In other words, it is not so 'cut and dry' as one would like it.
--
--With best regards from Shashi
Login name: shashi | System Programmer By Profession | In real life:
                   | but heart(&SWEET-HEART) in Math.| Shashi Sathaye
shashi@ms.uky.edu	sysshash@ukcc.uky.edu  shashi@aix3090.uky.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: urvish@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (urvish bidkar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: passage to india : questions
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:22:21 GMT
Reply-To: urvish@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (urvish bidkar)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: urvish@thumper.cc.utexas.edu

hi:

i just read the book "passsage to india" by priya agarwal. i have
a question for all those on the net - just how true is the picture
of the immigrant family? the reason i ask is that none of my friends
(either here or in india) have had to experience the kind of "lack
of communication"(?) priya agarwal points to. also, none of my friends
has really been "pushed" into a career path...they chose it. so for me,
the statistics priya presents tell an unreal story...

feel free to e-mail me as i dont keep up with the newsgroup.

urvish

urvish@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu         nobody provokes me with impunity.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: vinay@cs.toronto.edu ("Vinay K. Chaudhri")
Subject: Re: Miss. Masala and City of Joy
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:53:48 GMT

In article <5036@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
>
>Someone asked what people thought about "City of Joy." 
>I thought it was visually very interesting and graphic, but the story was 
>definitely corny. It almost reminded me of some of the corny Hindi movies
>that I've seen. As a matter of fact almost every Desi movie that I've 
>seen has been the tragic romance and song and dance type.
>

There are a few things that I liked about that movie. One, it was
a good illustration of three choices in life -"commit, spectate
or run".  So many times we have to make these choices.  Two, the
punch line -"Whatever is not given is lost".  Many times we tend
to be so selfish and forget the value of sharing whatever little
we have.  Finally, I was thrilled by the first scene where the 
band plays "sare jahan se accha, hindostan hammara".  

>There is one exception though, "Salaam Bombay." That was an excellent movie
>and really opened up my eyes to a society that I took for granted. The scene
>that really touched me was the Wedding, where the kids were all dressed up 
>and serving the spoiled children. I've only traveled to India a couple of
>times, and because I don't speak any of the languages, the servants always
>seemed like automatons. It was a really fascinating portrayal.

There is a distinct difference between this movie and several others
on similar themes.  The general framework of a standard formula movie
is that "there is in-justice in the society.  there is a hero whof
fights the injustice and wins (or achieves some level of success)".
Whereas in this movie movie shows that there is injustice, a person
tries to fight it but fails.  Probably this is closer to the 
life of the people portrayed in the movie, but most people 
seem to prefer to come out of the movie theater with euphoria,
however unrealistic it may be.

>
>Any other Desi films worth exploring? 
>
>Ron
>
There is a movie called just "Masala".  It was shot in
Toronto and won several awards.  I think that is a very
mature movie and head and shoulders above Miss. Masala.
I hope you guys can get it on video in states.



Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: asokan@Ingres.COM (Ashok Subramanian)
Subject: Geet Govindam Dance Presentation by Smt. SANJKTA PANIGRAHI...
Reply-To: asokan@Ingres.COM (Ashok Subramanian)
Organization: Ingres, an Ask Company, Alameda CA 94501
Distribution: ca
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:58:18 GMT

----------------------------------------------------------------------

               RAAGTARANG DANCE INSTITUTE OF SANJOSE

                         PROUDLY PRESENTS

	  ************************************************
          *                                              *
          *  PADMASHREE Smt. SANJUKTA PANIGRAHI & PARTY  *
	  *                                              *
	  ************************************************

            in a stunning presentation of EPIC COMPOSITION


                     G E E T A   G O V I N D A M  

 		   [in classical odissi dance style]

                 Music composition and direction by :

                   PANDIT Sri. RAGHUNATH PANIGRAHI


    on August 23rd, Sunday, 1992 @ Canada College, Time : 4 PM Sharp

                     For Information & Tickets :

    Shyamala@408-997-2702, Suman@408-997-2996, Murthy@415-949-3666

     Sunity@408-252-1114, Renee@415-922-0560, Ashok@408-723-2829

		       Vishal@408-227-3802


           Tickets : Donors/Patrons - $25, Adults - $15, $10

                 10% Discount for Seniors & Students

       Co-sponsored by Malayalee Association of Northern California
 
                          & INDIA FELLOWSHIP
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: Veeramany.Sthanumurthy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Veeramany Sthanumurthy)
Subject: And MalayALam folks (was: Malayalam fonts)
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:05:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.141422.2309@cs.ruu.nl> jhelling@cs.ruu.nl (Jeroen Hellingman) writes:
>Hi,
>
>I am the person developing Malayalam fonts for TeX, from Holland, not
>Finland (I don't mind, since most Europeans have never heard of Kerala, and
>would just as easily mix it up with Assam state or Manipur) and I don't
>mind people knowing about it, but I didn't want to make people happy before
...
>Jeroen,

MalayALam fonts are great (thought not for me, since I have forgotten
even the old style, let alone the new one :-(), but what about the
MalayALam folks? I tuned in, read a couple of interesting stories
and THE END.

Since the Creator is bound to tire with his Unbound and Unrivalled
enthusiasm for sustaining the old glory SCI, someone needs to take
up the slack here. :-) :-)

Sthan.

PS. Perhaps, JM will sally forth into this void? :-)

PPS. And, one more thing Joseph, SCTamil is not bickering, Okay? :-)
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Xref: sparky alt.culture.kerala:151 soc.culture.tamil:988
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala,soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Sex Ratio, Population growth
Date: 16 Aug 92 19:27:33 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com
Followup-To: alt.culture.kerala

Let me apologize to Malayalis in general for my earlier post. It was
essentially to make self-righteous folks like Njan think about themselves
before deciding to feel superior to others. Of course, I have no intention
of "proving" that X is better than Y or that X has to suffer because of Y.

manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan) writes:

>In article <Aug.14.17.43.31.1992.23905@paul.rutgers.edu> samaddar@siemens.com writes:
>>
>>How did Kerala end up with the highest population density? Maybe you
>>had your spell of lack of family planning. Now it is the turn of
>>north Indians.

>You are not only dumb, but ignorant as well... Kerala ALWAYS had
                                                       ^^^^^^
>population growth rate less than all India rate. It was the north
>Indian run central govt who didn't take family planning seriously 
>till the seventies... after which Kerala showed remarkable decrease

So, how did Kerala get it's current population density? By migration?
IMHO, it must have had a high population growth rate in the past (and
that means past 1000 years).

>in population growth... On the other hand, the North Indians, who
>always had a high population growth rate, continue to do so even
>after family planning became so important.

That is bad for the North Indian states. But how does that lead to
suffering in Kerala? Do these hordes of people come and take away
jobs/resources from Kerala? Call it lethargy of North Indians or
call it dynamism of Keralites but I see more Keralites earning their
living in North India than vice versa. So, again, how did the high
pop. growth in North India adversely effect Kerala?

>>Does it bother you that Madhya Pradesh (my state), with maybe 10 times
>>the area of Kerala has about 4 times the seats?

>You are dumb beyond belief!!! Is that how you vote in MP, depending
>upon how much land you have? No wonder the poor people in North

No, only when M.P. crosses Kerala in population density can you start
grumbling about population growth in M.P. People from M.P. should curb
population growth on their own, but coming from a dense state like Kerala,
you are not in any position to point fingers.

>>livelihood there. So the rest of India (and World) has borne the brunt of
>>population explosion in Kerala in the past. It was high time you reduced

I wrote this to make you see why pop. explosion doesn't automatically
hurt other people.

>By this reasoning, Japan must be the cause of all the problems in the
>world!

No, but then why are you complaining about pop. growth in North India. Why
not let North India get to the situation of Kerala and Japan :-)

>With idiots like you around, I'm feeling more and more ashamed to hold
>an indian passport! I wish Kerala had one for a change...

You'll always find some external reason to feel ashamed. Hope you can feel
proud of something someday.

Sumitro
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala,soc.culture.tamil
From: manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan)
Subject: Re: Sex Ratio, Population growth
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 05:22:31 GMT

In article <oeXht3u00WAo03SkZ0@andrew.cmu.edu> sohan+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai) writes:
>
>I fully agree that the state of Kerala should separate itself from the
>Indian union.

Great! Glad to see you agree in theory. I suggest we should go ahead and take
a vote to see what other readers think about this...

[rest of the article is unimportant as it is too soon to think any further.
Furthermore, I think we all are Malayalees, irrespective of our religious-
political beliefs.. after all, that's how you are going to be known elsewhere,
right?]

>Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai

Njan
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala,alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij)
Subject: Re: In Memoriam
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, California
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:57:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.173653.19840@samba.oit.unc.edu> Veeramany.Sthanumurthy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Veeramany Sthanumurthy) writes:
>[Testing the expiration feature again.. ]
>
>A few words in memory of the newsgroups mentioned above. Both came
>to be on the efforts of one prominent individual. Though both were 
>eagerly embraced by a number of interesting followers initially, 
>their untimely demise followed quite matter-of-factly.
>
>An anonymous correspondent mentioned that often "the unbalanced 
>postings are the more interesting ones and generate discussion
>On the whole, the balanced ones sit on the fence." With the 
>result we see in these two groups.
>
>I guess the SCIA vote was quite instructive in this regard for
>one newgroup at least...

Add soc.culture.indian.american to your memorial.  What kind of
discussions was it getting anyway?  Nothing happens to it right
now.

Why don't we recruit from SCI?  Wait ... on second thought ...
have you seen what goes on there?  Never mind.  ;')
                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
   mvij@novell.com                              \_/.  .  . . ........
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: jhelling@cs.ruu.nl (Jeroen Hellingman)
Subject: Re: Malayalam fonts
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:14:22 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science

Hi,

I am the person developing Malayalam fonts for TeX, from Holland, not
Finland (I don't mind, since most Europeans have never heard of Kerala, and
would just as easily mix it up with Assam state or Manipur) and I don't
mind people knowing about it, but I didn't want to make people happy before
it is in a distributable state, which it is not yet. I think it will need a
couple of weeks still, and right now I have other obligations unfortunately.
I will start distributing it, I hope, somewhere in September. I will announce
it on the net when it is ready.

Best wishes,

Jeroen,



-- 
Jeroen Hellingman                 E-mail: <jhelling@cs.ruu.nl>
't Zand 2                         Phone: +31-3473-73935 (home)
4133 TB Vianen                    (18.00--21.00 GMT)
The Netherlands                   Answer in English, German, or Dutch.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: krishna@seas.smu.edu (Sanjay Krishna)
Subject: Population growth and density ...
Organization: School of Engineering and Applied Science
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:43:45 GMT



  There has been an interesting discussion going on about Population growth
and density in the Indian states. Dr. K. Srinivasan  suggested that Kerala 
and Bengal have higher densities of population due to migration long ago 
because of better living conditions and river basins or availibility of 
water. Njan also supported this. I think I agree with them.   

However, it is a fact that if we combine the river systems in the south 
Godavari, Krishna and Cauvery they do not measure upto the Ganges or the 
Indus - thru Punjab. There is plenty of evidence to show that these river
plains in Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and Bengal are perhaps the most fertile 
regions in the world. Also, there are plenty of forests to account for 
the hunting which was probably a major occupation at that time. So the 
number of people who migrated to the north from other countries is without
a doubt quite significant. 

Why does Kerala have such a high population density ? I do not have the 
---------------------------------------------------
right answer and can offer only a theory supported by some facts. 

At the turn of the century the population of India was put at 150-200 million
by some demographers.( there was no census taken I guess). In 1950 
our population had risen to 300 million. A very small increase. However if 
we look at the statistics of the growth of primary education and health 
services they were spectacular in the Travancore and other districts along
the south - west coast. On the other hand states like UP,Bihar etc have 
only now reached that stage of social development.                               

It is a proven observation that when medical facilities improve dramatically
the growth rate of the population goes up quickly before stabilizing. This is
because prior to this,  high death rate and low life expectancy and high 
infant mortality  effectively cancel out high birth rate. But the medical 
facilities reduce all the factors that contribute to high death rate making 
population growth inevitable. Look at the statistics in India for example,
the half decade from 1900 did not result in a big increase, but since then 
in twenty years we have doubled our population. As a side note, Nagaland and 
most north-eastern states are experiencing a rapid growth rate now - it 
has coincided exactly with the growth of medical facilities. 
 
In the late 60's and early 70s India woke up to the fact that population 
growth had to be curbed and rapidly at that. The state that was best 
positioned to implent it was Kerala with its elaborate network of clinics
and health facilities. Truly amazing for a low income state. On the other 
hand states like UP, Bihar, MP etc improved their health facilities only
much later after the 60s and during improvement were forced to reduce 
pop. growth by "forced" sterilizations. The result is a decrease but 
nowhere near what Kerala acheived. 

Sanjay 







Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala