From: ARBOGASTW@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast)
Subject: Re: What the world needs now is an AMERICAN TV CONTRACT.
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 22:05:05 GMT

In article <allan.703403414@so-heart-rv> allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan) writes:
>ARBOGASTW@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast) writes:

>>As an advocate of the league controlling fighting, I contend that if the NHL 
>>treated fighting like other sports do (ejecting players when it gets out of 
>>hand and eliminating the impression that the league condones "goons" and 
>>their "honor codes"), the NHL would have a CHANCE to get an AMERICAN TV 
>>contract that would provide the league the dollars both players and owners 
>>see being made in other sports.

>The optimum word here is CHANCE. What if the CHANCE doesn't work?

What if it does? We could go for hours.

>You've changed the game, reduced the intensity, made it less enjoyable
>for the current market, probably increased the incidence of stick
>violations, and have nothing to show for it.

The optimum word here is PROBABLY.  What if the PROBABILITY never occurs?

What if it does? Again, we could go for hours.

I don't agree that a game is any less intense and/or enjoyable when players 
are tossed for fighting. Last night Kevin Stevens jumped into an altercation 
with Ciccarelli and Tocchet.  He was tossed because he was the third man. 
You hate to lose a guy like Stevens - he's fun to watch (and I'm a Caps 
fan).  He should have been tossed, he was out of hand.  True, Ciccarelli 
punched at Tocchet's jaw after they ran into each other, but a guy like 
Tocchet can protect himself. And if THIS altercation doesn't get out of 
hand, call off setting penalties (like other sports) and let the players 
cool down. The Caps lost, but I enjoyed the game.  Unfortunately, the Caps 
lost, but it looked like a sizable crowd was following the action after 
Steven's left.

If this works in the other sports, why not hockey?  

>Most people who don't like the fighting in hockey wouldn't watch
>it even if there was no fighting.

Again, I believe there is a strong difference between HAVING fighting and, 
as a league, ALLOWING, TOLERATING, and ENCOURAGING out of hand fighting 
(Stevens blowing his top while not being the third man - he wouldn't have 
been tossed or Probert-Domi rematches).  When the league ignores what this 
does for it's image, you end up with hockey being on the back pages of the 
LA sports sections.  

I'll grant you, it's a media problem too;  I also think it's an image 
problem that the NHL has the ability to do something about.

>What next, remove hitting and checking from the game because people see
>that part of the game as too rough?  Hey, why don't you get rid of
>sticks and pucks too, since these can hurt people.

I don't think anyone wants this nor do I think anyone feels the game is too 
rough because of hitting and checking.  If that were the case, football 
wouldn't have a chance.

>>Fine, don't change the game because fans in hockey cities in Canada and the 
>>US like it the way it is.  But don't strike for higher salaries when wages 
>>have gone up so dramatically the past two years and fight over the bus fair 
>>made off of hockey cards.  Sure, the players are right about owning their 
>>faces AND there is money to be made, but it would be a lot bigger pile if 
>>the league and the players marketed itself.  And fighting does nothing to 
>>help their cause.

>Marketing helps. Fighting is neutral.

>>I've heard plenty of arguments to leave the game alone because people like 
>>it the way it is. This is usually followed by arguments that Ziegler and the 
>>owners are shortsighted money hounds who should change their game. This 
>>doesn't make sense. Aren't fans who don't want a change being a little 
>>shortsighted?

>I never said hockey shouldn't change. There are LOTS of things 
>the NHL should change. I'm saying that banning fighting
>would not help the game and may hurt it.

Fine.  We obviously disagree.

>P.S. How come you have not come up with a list of players injured
>     by fighting, like I challenged?

To me, players being injured by fighting is not the problem, and I never 
said hockey should ban fighting because of injuries to players. I suggest 
that fighting should be banned in the language of the rules (controlled) to 
aid the injury to the league's image.

>P.P.S. Actually, I find the notion of banning fighting from hockey
>to get a TV contract insulting. We in Canada have been watching
>hockey on CBC for years. Not everyone likes the fighting, but
>we still watch it. When you say "Get rid of fighting", you
>must have the impression that the millions of Hockey Night in 
>Canada fans are morons or something. ("Hey those stupid Canadians 
>don't know what's good for them.")

As a Candian now living in the US, I too am insulted with this notion.  I 
feel the need to point out that I never suggessted this notion (especially 
the derogatory remarks at the end) and since you took it this way, I 
apologize to you or anyone one else who read it this way.

As a Candian now living in the US, I also realize the money the other sports 
leagues get in the US from TV, when managed properly (the NBA), can help 
avoid strikes, ticket price hikes, and, perhaps, pay-per-view.

I know the key word in this line is HELP.  But I started this thread the day 
the strike began, and on that day a lot of people who follow the NHL game 
were offering suggesstions of help.

Again, I am sorry you took my comments as an insult; I assure you they were 
not meant this way.

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   \  \                   |Allan Sullivan (allan@cs.ualberta.ca)
>    \  \                  |Department of Computing Science,
>     \  \_______          |University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
>      \    ###  \     _   |---------------------------------------------------
>       \___###___\   (_)  |My opinions are mine and mine alone.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"It is amazing how much can be accomplished if no one cares who gets the
> credit..."          - U. of A. Golden Bears Hockey Motto (C. Drake)
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>        

Warren