HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alvalent@husc9.harvard.edu (Alvin Valentine)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Skill vs. Showmanship
Date: 11 Sep 92 23:10:56 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

I don't know.  I don't think I've seen too many people with serious levels
of manipulative ability who weren't good performers.  They tend to take magic
seriously.  Taking what you do seriously  often goes hand in hand with
being a good perfromer, though admittedly not always.  Performers who are
lame at performing would probably also not bother to practice that much
if they didn't care about how their performance went.  My comments on
McBride included in my follow up post (which unfortunately lacked a subject
line), that he used simple tricks but wowed the crowd.  Simple tricks can
be worked up into miracles by awesome performers, but if you try to pull of
some amazing sleight of hand, and you blunder, no amount of showmanship
is gonna save you usually.  The magic is usually gone right there, and anything
after that is reduced in impact.  The amazing manual dexterity I applaud is 
not the kind jugglers possess.  They want everyone to see everything they're
doing.  A good manipulator in magic inspires me, because I know he cares about
what he's doing, and if he covers his angles, then I know laymen won't catch
on.  My brain function in two modes at once when I watch magic.  One part
looks for blown covers, and the other part just goes into neutral and
enjoys the ride.  In this way, I don't consciously try to anticipate the next
move, that way I can enjoy the effect, but I keep an eye on what's going on
so that I can appreciate the skill as well as the showmanship.  I think the
two go hand in hand.   
 

 
Later,
 
Lee Valentine
From: van@teal.csn.org (Claude W. Van Horn)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Dai Vernon passed away
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:22:54 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

I saw Dai at the Castle about 4 years ago.  He was sitting at his table 
talking to a few still-interested people and was still interesting to 
listen to.  I too am saddened.

Van the Adequate -- Magician
From: van@teal.csn.org (Claude W. Van Horn)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: alt.magic
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:29:12 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

>
>Speaking of pure fun entertainment, another magician you must see is
>Tom Mullica.  Great entertainment.  Here, we probably know what's going
>on, but nevertheless, entertaining.  Fantastic cigarette routine.  Funniest
>guy I ever saw in my life.

You are right!!  I have a tape of one of his shows.  Have not been able to get to atlantic City to see him, but want to.  A friend of mine was with the 
air force in Germany and saw a show in his european tour.  

I am so JEALOUS!!!

Van the Adequate -- Magician
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Torn/restored newspaper -- also, "how does DC do the tricks"
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 05:25:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.201240.24748@cs.tulane.edu> tom@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu (Tom Gerace) writes:
>
>You should get "Gene Anderson's Torn and Restored Newspaper".  In my
>estimation, Gene's method is far superior to the many others that I 
>pursued while looking for a method.
>
>Yes, it requires a bit of setup, but the effect is great.  You page
>through 5 sheets of newspaper, tear it all up, then the pieces are
>restored in a flash, which ALWAYS gets a big applause!  I have used
          ^^^^^^^^^^
>the Torn and Restored Newspaper to close my stage/platform shows for
>about 7 years now because it is such a strong effect, and it gets
>great applause, which is what I want to leave the stage with.

The real advantage is the speed with which it is restored.

(The only thing faster -- maybe -- is the speed with which
 Blackstone's birdcage disappears :^)

>Again, the setup will put you off a bit, but the time spent is
>well worth it.

Well, it isn't like you have to memorize it;  The book is available
any time.  (If you haven't done it for a long time, you'd need the
book to refresh your memory anyway.)

>Gene used to be in our IBM Ring 178 in Baton Rouge, Louisiana (when
>I lived there).  He's a chemist or engineer with Dow Chemical, and
>was in BR for a number of years.  He's back in Michigan, again, and
>I read about him in the trade magazines every now and then.

And a nice guy.  He's showed up at "The Magic Capital of the World"
- the annual show at Colon, Michigan for the last couple of years.

PhD chemist, I think.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: gouldh@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: How does he fly
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:04:31 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University

I was not trying to tear the illusion apart and it has been very 
apparent through the prior discussion a stooge was used. My point
was that the effect was wonderful, the stooge lessened it some what
as a friend of mine was so impressed with the act he bought a ticket 
for the second show. -- let down time came when the same girl appeared
to fly.  If a stooge had not been used it may have added more to the
mistique.  I personally do not care about the method. I will never be 
in a position to use it.
From: presto@chopin.udel.edu (Jason Y Nocks)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: DC and Faith
Date: 14 Sep 92 05:59:04 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Sep13.050609.13626@csus.edu> arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler) writes:
>
>   A question from a non-magician (but who loves a good show):
>  OK, now I'm watching David Copperfield on TV. He flies, he appears on
>a motorcycle inside a box, etc. I'm amazed -- until I think,
>"Waitaminute! This is TV, and this is the age of special effects.  How
>do I know all these great illusions weren't just done in the editing
>room?"
>  I've never seen DC's live show; so how could I (or anyone else in my
>position) be sure that the TV show wasn't just special video effects --
>and rather ordinary ones at that, given *Terminator II* quality effects
>we can see elsewhere?
> 

   This is exactly the reason that a magician tries to have a live audience on
hand at all times. (It helps if one can believe that the magician won't use
stooges in his audience). If there is a live audience present and they actually
sold tickets, you can be pretty sure that you are seeing the real thing. In this
age of lawsuits, if they say "In front of a live studio audience" most of what
they are saying is true. Other than that, who knows?

Enjoy and allow yourself to believe in miracles,
-Jason

-- 
| presto@brahms.udel.edu       | A senior E.E. at the U of D with a side order
| presto@freezer.cns.udel.edu  | of stage and close-up magic. The views
| nocks@snow-white.ee.udel.edu | expressed are exclusively my own (etc).
From: cf542@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Julio Richard Laredo)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Skill vs. Showmanship
Date: 16 Sep 1992 01:05:11 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


About stooges and cheating, I hope no one starts longing for the
good old days.  Because, in the good old days in the example
of Houdini, even "worse " happened.  If Houdini was confronted
by a set of challenge handcuffs for which he felt he was not 
ready, and the challenger was extremely insistant, said challenger
would be called backstage on some pretext and was discouraged ged
by a blow to the head strong enough to put him out for the
duration of the show.
-- 
Have straitjacket, might travel.
From: salisbur@chilliwack.cs.washington.edu (Mike Salisbury)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Copperfield Explained
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:28:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Northwest Lab for Integrated Systems

|> >How did he walk through walls, fly, and all that other stuff??  Easy!
|> >
|> >           it's Magic!!
|> 
|> Oh please, it is not, there are perfectly rational explanations for every
|> one of his effects.  For instance:
|> ...
|> He used magnets to fly (and every computer in the city started getting
|> disk read errors about that time too).

You're forgetting about his method to make small objects float.  Everybody
knows he does that with magnetic dust.

-- Mike Salisbury
salisbur@cs.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: ddn@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.d.nason)
Subject: Re: Torn/restored newspaper -- also, "how does DC do the tricks"
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:24:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.210358.21477@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) writes:
>
>So how's he do it?  Wires.  Yeah, it's just a bunch of wires (10 to be
>exact), in a fan formation attached to a harness around his waist.
>The committee he invites on stage can almost certainly see this, and
>the girl is either a member of the crew or they pick someone and set
>her up beforehand.  She has five wires of her own, you see.
>

The girl who "flew" with DC on his latest TV special was the same one who
"flew" with him when I saw him in Columbus.  But anyway, I don't get the
wires thing.  If it's wires, how does he "fly" in the box?  If the girl
has wires of her own, what are they attached to and how to they get attached?
And why couldn't I see these wires from the 2nd row ?  Other than the
suspicious looking background (which looked like it might be used to help
hide something) and the fact that there is something obviously under his shirt,
I was not able to determine how he "flew".

david
From: cf542@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Julio Richard Laredo)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: For collectors...
Date: 9 Sep 1992 03:30:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


have available vintage WWII German handcuffs.  Though they look
big and impressive are fairly easy to pick.  The locks can also
be removed by a screw, which *should* make the hasps susceptible
to gravity: i.e. they only open if turned the correct way.

Price, $85.00

Also available new Russian handcuffs.  These are scary-looking,
a challenge to open.  One is hinged, the other with links.
Each with 2 keys
each with 2 keys.  $125.00 each.

-- 
Have straitjacket, might travel.

Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: gouldh@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: How does he fly
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:45:42 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University

The question is not how he flew but how well he performed the
illusion. The major problem is that two many people saw the same 
girl at different shows. This destroys the use of the stooge. Other
than that I thought it was fairly impressive when I saw it in Memphis.

     HJG
From: HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: (Best W.C. Fields drawl...) "Shaddup kid, y'er botherin' me"
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:16:57 GMT
 <BARNETT.92Sep9090549@grymoire.crd.ge.com>
Organization: Penn State University

>
>In article <1992Sep8.220214.13420@advtech.uswest.com> ron@eatdust.uswest.com
>(Ron Schweikert) writes:
>
>>   Question: how do you handle the "know it all" or smart-aleck kid [...]
>

That's why I *don't* do kids shows.   ;-)

But, when I occasionally do a platform show and kids are involved, if I get
a smart alec, I usually go for the bold.  I bring him/her up on stage to be
my assistant "because he seems to know alot about magic."  Explain to the
kid that you are going to need his help with a very difficult illusion, and
that since he knows how it's done, he should keep it a secret.   Then do
hippity hop rabbits or some such childrens blather.  After you are done,
the child has had their moment of glory in front of his/her friends
and you can tell the child that since he/she is a REAL magician now,
he should take the magicians oath.  "I promise never to reveal the modus
operandi of any effect."  (Or something a little more child oriented.)
I've only run across this a couple of times (like I said, I *don't* do
kids shows...) and it has worked perfectly.

Hans C. Masing  HCM100 @ PSUVM.psu.edu

{innert o -threatening .sig here}
From: barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Torn/restored newspaper -- also, "how does DC do the
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:28:30 GMT
	<716120203snx@ietech.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: barnett@crdgw1.ge.com
Organization: GE Corp. R & D, Schenectady, NY

In article <716120203snx@ietech.demon.co.uk> nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
>   Can somebody put up some information about Bruce's mailing list please?
send mail to magic-request@crdgw1.ge.com

You will be given a questionaire.
--
Bruce Barnett <barnett@crd.ge.com> uunet!crdgw1!barnett
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: griecoj@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Jr Joseph Grieco)
Subject: looking for Bruce Barnett
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:33:13 GMT



Last year I was on a magic mailing list.  Now that I'm back in school I  
want to get back on, but lost Bruce's email address. Could someone mail it  
to me if they know it? thanks.


			Joe Grieco
			griecoj@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
			"Trust me. I know what I'm doing."
			-Sledge Hammer
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: ron@eatdust.uswest.com (Ron Schweikert)
Subject: (Best W.C. Fields drawl...) "Shaddup kid, y'er botherin' me"
Originator: ron@eatdust
Organization: U S WEST Communications -- Information Technologies
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:02:14 GMT

If this thread's been around before and I missed it, I apologize.

Question: how do you handle the "know it all" or smart-aleck kid who 
challenges your particular effect with "I know how you did that...", or 
"that's easy, you just *somehow* made the card come through the cloth..."
or "<insert obtrusion here>."

They're almost *always* WRONG, but nevertheless you have to respond some
how.  I don't want to insult them (even though I feel like it sometimes! :-)) 
nor ruin the show for other people (right now, mostly young kids), so how do I
gracefully tell the kid to shut up (I mean, "chill out" :-)?)

Kid's feelings are hurt easily, so I don't want to do that or embarass them
in front of their friends, but I don't want them being disruptive either
so...I take the question to the experts -- how do *you*
handle disruptive audience members?  Kids?  Adults?

Many thanks in advance!

(BTW, thanks also to the responses for further reading, and for newspaper
illusions.  I may post the results in a few days since others may find
it helpful).

Ron
From: de0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Daniel S. Efran)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: What is diachylon?
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:39:46 GMT
 <QedDcKS00VogQ6QXFr@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<92246.161648HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.alt.magic: 2-Sep-92 Re: What is diachylon?
HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu (768)

> Please!  I am sick of spending $6.50/can of roughing fluid.  Also, can you
> post bibliographic information on the book you are reffering to!?  I've
> never heard of it!

> Presto,
> | HANS C. MASING                   | A BAD ATTITUDE IS THE      |
> | HCM100 @ PSUVM.PSU.EDU           | DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE     |
> | MANAGEMENT INFORMATION SYSTEMS   | WAY I THINK AND THE WAY    |
> | PENN STATE UNIVERSITY            | YOU THINK I SHOULD THINK.  |


The roughing fluid formula comes from a book called "Modern Chemical Magic"
although the word "Modern" is printed in red on the cover, and is practically
invisible.  It is by John Lippy, Jr.  Inside it claims to be authored by
John D. Lippy, Jr. and Edward L. Palder.  Palder somehow missed the cover
credits.  There is no copyright date or publisher listed, however we got
our copy at the Philadelphia Magic store a year or two ago.
 
The fomula for roughing fluid is as follows:
Dissolve in a mixture of 8 ounces of grain alcohol and 1 ounce of liquified
phenol the following: one-half ounce, by weight, gum sandarac; one-half
ounce, by weight, gum mastic.  Agitate the bottle to hasten the dissolving.
Allow to stand several hours and then filter to eliminate any sedimentation.
To apply roughing fluid, moisten a piece of cotton and apply to the desired
surfaces by rubbing across the entire area with a back and forth stroke.
Set the card aside to dry.
 
That's it.  Hope it is useful.  Let us know if someone makes it up.

	---Daniel Efran
----------------------------------
An it harm none, do as you Will.
Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
From: Thomas_E_Zerucha@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Penn & Teller PBS Show
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 17:13:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na

Basically, Penn&Teller hosted an introduction to drawing with emphasis on how
artists achieve 3D effects on 2D media (perspective, size, overlap) with a
few optical illusions (e.g. a large card in front of a small one with a cut
out corner that appeared to be in front, but was revealed to be in back.
From: pbaker@tbag.tscs.com (Pete Baker)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Torn/restored newspaper -- also, "how does DC do the tricks"
Date: 12 Sep 92 11:46:23 EST
Organization: Tampa Bay Amiga Group

On Sat 12-Sep-1992 11:36a, Ron Schweikert wrote:
RS> Good morning all (well, at least it's morning *here*) :-)
RS> 
RS> One quick question.  I've been looking for a publication for the torn and
RS> restored newspaper effect.  It seems straightforward enough (I've played 
RS> with ways to do it), but would like some different insights.  I'm most
RS> interested in a version where 3-5 pages of a newspaper are thumbed
RS> through,
RS> and then "restored" after tearing.  There must be an easier prep for the
RS> effect than what I'm doing.  It is either too clumsy (require perhaps just
RS> more practice) or there's a better way.  Insights would be appreciated.

TO get the BEST info on Torn and Restored Newspapers... contact:
Dr. Gene Anderson
922 Carriage Way
Baton Rouge, LA 70808
(504) 769-2546

Gene is the foremost authority on newspaper magic... matter of fact its his whole show!  He also has traveled the world doing the most entertaining lectures on the subject.  I met him for the first time at the Florida State Magic Convention (we had lunch together) in the early 1980's.  He is a consumate performer and I think you will get the most help from him.

Regards;

Pete Baker.(AKA- MR Exshun)
pbaker@tbag.tscs.com
tbag!pbaker@uunet.uu.net

--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: <none>
From: alvalent@husc9.harvard.edu (Alvin Valentine)
Date: 10 Sep 92 08:35:41 EDT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

He is indeed awesome.  He takes some very basic effects and absolutely 
knocks your socks off with them.  Good stuff.  Jose Ayala [name in question]
of Mexico does his mask routine and at one point does a Zombie routine
with a giant spinning diamond with lights pouring out that unfolds in front
of his face, and leaves the last mask there.

Anybody know if McBride's mask methodology is for sale?  I know he has a
rising card effect for sale, so I assume other bits are out there too.

GREAT show.  Worth every dime.  Best magician I've every seen live, 'cause
there wasn't just awesome showmanship (though there was that), but tricks
that took YEARS of practice.  The dude is AWESOME.  I had coffee with his
sister in Harvard Square, and she says he practices like a monster.

Hail to Hank Lee's Magic shop (not been there yet, shame on me, I usually
go to Maravello in Boston), for they must have one heck of a selection.
The man got his entire van of equipment robbed the day of the show, and 
Hank Lee's took care of him righteously.  Amazing showman, didn't effect
the edge of the performance one bit.  He changed a couple of things and
bingo, awesome show! 
 

 
Later,
 
Lee Valentine
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: magicmat@buhub.bradley.edu (Matthew Phillips)
Subject: Re: Copperfield Explained
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 23:32:43 GMT


Hehe...I thought we weren't discussing methods here! But since the 
silence has been broken..

It's not magnets...It's a giant air hockey table..that's easy...I just 
don't know where the giant puck is hidden.

As for the rest....can you all keep a secret?
So can I.


--
 __ _ _   __ _   __ _  _   _    _ _ _   __ _ _____   _______________________ 
 I ' ' I /  ' I /  ' II I /  \ I ' ' I /  ' I_   _I I_______________________I
 I I I II O I II O I II II O-< I I I II O I I I I    _______________________
 I_I_I_I \__,_I \__, II_I \__/ I_I_I_I \__,_I I_I   I_______________________I
                I___/  magicmat@buhub.bradley.edu
From: Thomas_E_Zerucha@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Torn/restored newspaper -- also, "how does DC do the tricks
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 92 17:52:24 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

I probably have seen Gene Anderson's Torn and Resored, but the one I see
done more often is Slydini's.  It was either in "The Magical World of Slydini"
or "The Best of Slydini".  Gives complete setup - you need 4 copies, but it
goes in one slow continuous motion.  And there are other neat things in
the books.

For Newspaper Magic in general, "Newspaper Magic" by Gene Anderson, and
Frances Marshall is probably the best source.  I think it contains the other
routine being talked about here.
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: jhands@eng.clemson.edu (Matt Hands)
Subject: Re: Skill vs. Showmanship
Summary: Skill is to fool magicians.  Showmanship is to entertain the audience.
Keywords: MAGIC SKILL SLEIGHT SHOWMANSHIP
Reply-To: jhands@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 16:49:52 GMT

I think we as magicians too often look for new effects based on the trick's ability to
fool another magician.  This often means that these tricks tend to be complicated
and/or technically demanding.  For the magician this is fine, but for the layman the 
trick may not be terribly entertaining.

I worked my first table magic job a few months ago.  At first, I began with all 
simple tricks-- no difficult sleight of hand.  Even after adding more technically difficult routines into my own performance, I found that many of the simple store-bought effects still worked the best.

At the same time, I found how important the performance was.  The best performances (those usually yielding the most in tips) were always ones in which I spent time talking and laughing with the audience.  The more interaction the magician has with the audience, the closer the magic is to each individual in that audience, and thus they enjoy the magic just a little bit more.  And finally, you don't have to do the most technically demanding billiard ball routine to entertain the audience.

Some thoughts for the day,
Matt Hands

jhands@eng.clemson.edu
From: DKelley@bunny.gte.com (Dawn Kelley)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Feather Magic
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:33:23 GMT
Organization: GTEL

>Request for pointer to a source of feather magic (books, magic shops, 
>catalogues etc.).  It fits in with my Medicine Man role,
> but I can't remember ever seeing a trick using feathers.  Have you?

>Norm

Yes.  I have a trick called "Feather to Flower". I think I bought it a few
years ago from the Magic Art Studio in Watertown, MA.  I forget who made 
it.
You hold a feather in your hand and it "magically" turns into a flower.

Dawn

Dawn Kelley
GTE Labs
DKelley@bunny.gte.com
Newsgroups: alt.magic