From: kortink@cs.utwente.nl (John Kortink)
Subject: Re: Oh no ! More .....
Organization: University of Twente, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:21:41 GMT

Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower) writes :

>[...]
>if you read what people wrote more stringently, and thought more about
>what they were trying to say.
>
>[...]
>Normally the vendor of the compiler organises the modifications - this
>is for John's benefit, I assume everybody else knows this.
>
>[...]
>From other posts, I see someone else decided that you could do with an
>explanation of how compilers work, and the ease of modifying them.
>
>[...]
>John, read the original quote *carefully*, note the word "generally"!
>
>John, John, why don't you stick to writing quality applications, and
>get someone else to handle your PR?

Whoopee. Read what you say. Five patronizing remarks in a row ? Sorry, but
this is really childish. Just because I often like to go into heavy attack
does not mean I should be 'violated' personally by you or TMOTA (or let it
pass for that matter). Can we now resume listening to each other (and
assume the other person does too) ? Thanks.

Regarding your own statements, there already were other people than me who
do not agree with you. Will you keep that in mind before you start thinking
it's only me ?

In fact, all our talk is based on *speculation* about speed of updates,
isn't it ? The only people who ever did any of what we are arguing about
are CC (if you agree the ARM3 didn't really require a major C compiler
rewrite).

That aside, which neither side can ever 'win', I really fail to see why it
cannot be fully acknowledged that major applications can be very succesfully
written in ARM code and can survive all your doom and darkness predictions
on updates and bugs.

Although you try to deny it, ARM coding *is* an essential part of the success
of Impression, and (success guaranteed) ArtWorks, and these in turn, for a
very important part, have determined and will determine CC's success and
growth. The fact that they chose to use ARM code in Impression and ArtWorks
(and other apps) *is* one of the major reasons leading to their success.

>Quality of management and reasonably good quality control, though I
>suspect they will, if they haven't already, reviewed there attitude
>towards "C".

Yes. Like ArtWorks. Like their fast printer drivers. Good grief. You keep
denying things that are happening. They have seen ARM code working *big*,
and will continue to use it. They use it everywhere !

This is my last posting. Dabble on if you will. As far as I'm concerned,
it's a draw regarding the argument about update differences. Nobody really
knows (except maybe CC), until the new processors arive, incompatibilities
do arise, or major speedups can be achieved with new features. Only then
everybody has to update their software. It'll take a number of years yet.

Personally, I'll stick my head out once more and predict that Acorn will
do their utmost to enable straight running of current apps on new hardware.
The whole update story would not even apply.

One thing I do see, right now. I see CC's ARM code stuff working brilliantly,
small and very fast. I see mine and other's ARM stuff work well (better than
it could ever be in C by factors of two to three in both memory and speed).
And so I see ARM code works better in every way, given the extra development
time (and extra bug-hunting, which for ARM code may be more work, yes, but it
all depends on your mileage and coding style, doesn't it).

And no, I have no intention of porting my apps to a PC, thank you ...


John Kortink

Student of Informatics at the University of Twente, The Netherlands
(God, will I ever stop doing things 'on the side' and get it done?)
NETMAIL : kortink@cs.utwente.nl              DISCLAIMER : the usual