From: Robert.Vienneau@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Robert Vienneau)
Subject: Re: Anti-religious fanatics (Was Re: School Choice )
Followup-To: alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.theory
Summary: Minimum knowledge of socialism
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 10:49:31 GMT

In article <-lny#=g@rpi.edu> jacksonk@gehrig.cs.rpi.edu (Keith Jackson) writes:
>In article <1992Aug22.190539.20845@isc-br.isc-br.com> steveh@thor.isc-br.com (Steve Hendricks) writes:
>>In article <ATAYLOR.92Aug17180945@gauss.nmsu.edu> ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) writes:
>
>>>	However, let's continue in this direction: socialism, as
>>>	religion, has killed more than all previous religious
>>>	crusades.
>
>>>	* The 1920's purges of "kulaks" in the USSR
>>>	* The 1930's purge of the Communist Party of the USSR
>>>	* The 1930's purge of Communists by the NSDAP in Germany
>>>	* The 1930's purge of the Army in the USSR
>>>	* War in Europe from 1939 to 1945, instigated by Socialists,
>>>	  continued by Socialists.
>
>>Now this is interesting.  It should be noted that "socialism" as
>>practiced by the CPSU (Communist Party, Soviet Union) has never been
>>the sole example of international socialism.  In fact, much of the 
>>international socialist movement has consistently rejected the practices
>>Of the CPSU.
>
>Hmm, like the socialists in China who run over students in tanks, or the
>socialists in Cambodia who killed huge numbers of people, or the socialists
>. . .
>
>>You obviously have little understanding of the political
>>conflicts that have characterized the international socialist movement
>>since the early 19th century.
>
> [ignorant ravings deleted for brevity]

If one wants to discuss the historical impact of Christianity and has
no idea that there are many Christian churches, or is totally unaware of
who Martin Luther was, I think one's conversation would quickly seem
incompetent.

Here's some minimum knowledge I think one should have of 20th century
movements in socialism to discuss their history:

o Eduard Bernstein's revisionism and the reactions it provoked. The fact
  that he is much admired by democratic socialists who consider
  themselves his intellectual heirs. The Socialist International.

o The parallel split in Russia between the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks.

o Mussolini's split with Italian socialists over WWI

o The collapse of the Second International

o Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht (sp?). Formation of the Spartacus
  League. Their murders. Her criticism of Lenin.

o The Russian Revolution. The Third International.

o Trotsky. The Fourth International.

o Bukharin. The NEP.

o Gramsci and his influence on Italian communists.

o Eurocommunism.

I realize this list is too European oriented and ignores third world
movements. However, I claim, without at least an awareness of the
existence of some of these movements, you are in no position to draw
conclusions about what socialists believe or how Stalin's millions are a
neccesary consequence of socialism. (I also note that most diatribes on
Marxism exhibit total ignorance of anything Marx wrote.)
                                   Robert Vienneau
                                   rob@kaman.com
--
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Xref: sparky alt.politics.bush:3349 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:4890