From: zentner@radon.ecn.purdue.edu (Mike Zentner)
Subject: Re: Foreign Students / Faculty
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:01:58 GMT

In article <GERRY.92Apr9160546@onion.cmu.edu> gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:
>
>[I will offer a viewpoint contrary to most of the others that have
>been posted.]
>
>In article <1992Apr8.022921.6693@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> khafagi@egr.msu.edu (Bassem K. Khafagi) writes:
>
>   * 1. Do you feel FE are assets or burden to the system
>
>Burden: Students in other countries must, by the nature of their
>educational systems, rise to the very top, or they will be shut out.
>This means that in competing with American students, who do not
>necessarily have the same work ethic, they will appear to be the
>better choice.  This means that at our best schools, the foreigners
>displace Americans, which has an impact of our country's future.

I think that you will find that most schools in the US would love
to have more American students than they have now.  The problem, as
you state, is that the American students in general do not have the
same work ethic (although there are exceptions).  I wonder, though,
why you blame this on the foreign students.  It is an American
problem, caused by ourselves in one way or another (but that's 
another topic).  It would be ridiculous for this country's best
institutions to lower standards and accept less qualified 
American students, thus lowering the credibility of the institution
in a continuing cycle.
>
>   * 3. Do they have any impact on the Salaries (for Faculty or
>Engineers)
>
>Lower: Many of the foreigners want to stya in the USA after
>graduation.  The only way to do so is to get a green card.  To get
>that, they must have an employer.  Employers, knowing this, offer
>lower salaries which the foreigners will not refuse because they want
>to stay.  An employer then has the option to hire a qualified
>American at one price or an equally qualified foreigner at a lowr
>price...

Another thing that bothers me here is what we call an American?
If a foreign student wants to stay here and eventually become
a citizen, what makes them any different than your ancestors?  I
think it is overall better for the US if we can have some influx
of people who can be productive for this country.  

In article <1992Apr10.000934.1820@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> shihtsun@ec.ecn.purdue.edu (Shih-tsun Alex Chou) writes:
>In article <GERRY.92Apr9160546@onion.cmu.edu> gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:

>>   * 5. For Students taught by Foreign Faculty or TA's, What is your
>>feedback
>>
>>It depends on the individual's ability to clearly express themself in
>>English.  I have found that many foreign students tend to surround
>>themselves with people from their home country and they talk in their
>>native language.  This does little to improve their use of the English
>>language.  You are only as good as your ability to clearly communicate
>>your ideas.
>>
>Talking to their countrymen in their mother language has little to do
>with their English ability. You probably just feel uncomfortable when
>you are besides this situation. But, there are a lot of American
>businessman and students in Taipei who like to gather in a pub or
>bar and talk to each other in English, and I don't think there's 
>anything wrong with them.

No, Alex, I think you are wrong here.  I don't think it is a matter
of being uncomfortable for most of us.  I do think, though, that Gerry
is misplacing his frustrations in this situation.  What I think Gerry
means is that some nationalities seem to exclusively congregate with
their countrymen and no one else outside of their group.  When a group
of X speaking people are all together, there's nothing wrong with them
speaking in X.  However, if they are in this country studying and if
they are expected to give presentations, write papers, etc... in this
country, then they should make an effort to learn the language.  What
better way to learn the language and get some new ideas than to
associate with the American students?  Some make this effort, but many
do not.  It is so much easier to stay within your own group, but
valuable friendships and collaboration can be made outside of a single
nationality.

Bottom line?  For many of those foreign students who cannot communicate
effectively, it is their fault because they isolate themselves.  It is
also the fault of the institution for not insisting upon effective oral
and written communication.

--
Mike Zentner
Purdue University, CHME Building       zentner@ecn.purdue.edu
West Lafayette, IN 47907               pur-ee!zentner