HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ckb@athena.mit.edu (Christopher K. Brown)
Subject: Re: Valiant Issues
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 04:39:55 GMT

{	Comments (by Elisabeth) about Shadowman 1-6 removed	}
>> 
>>So I read SHADOWMAN very carefully and I found it (sigh) immature, dull, 
>>irritating and eventually very offensive.

I can see someone saying this.  Valiants are not for everyone.  They
are graphic, at times crass, have no problems with portraying
stereotypes, and have alot going on beneath the surface.  The
development of Shadowman's character came along slowly.  His purpose
was never really defined - hell - he wasn't sure himself what was
going on.  Overall, the only character I like more is Solar.

>>There was also a confusing discontinuity between #5 and #6, where the 
>>story must have carried on in other comics -- an annoying habit that 
>>Marvel and DC have that I would hope other companies would not emulate.

Unity is the reason for the discontinuity.  Unity (and major
crossovers, in general) definitely give people trying to follow noe
title alot of trouble.  But for those people trying to follow the
'Universe' Valiant has tried to create - make that the universe Unity
created - it has made the whole much more mysterious.  There has been
a very large and envolved evolution in the Valiant universe - an
intricately planned evolution.  Shooter had the plotlines for Unity -
and beyond layed out before the third Valiant title was released.

Here's a bit of news.  Shadowman #2 could very well be the first appearance
of H.A.R.DCorps.  Check out the group that comes to get Shadowman in
his home.

>	I have to agree with you. Shadowman shouldn't have been involved in
>Unity. Of all the Valiant titles, this title was the one that just didn't
>work in Unity. Kind of like Spiderman being in the Infinity Whatever; he
>just doesn't fit into the "clash of gods" idea.

And he payed for it, too.  Solar kinda almost killed him.  :-)

Chris
From: whicken@kastor.ccsf.caltech.edu (Wendell Hicken)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Why is PAD on the net?
Date: 22 Dec 1992 20:48:27 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: kastor.ccsf.caltech.edu

In article <Dec.22.15.17.02.1992.10171@gandalf.rutgers.edu> cje@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Cthulhu's Jersey Epopt) writes:
>Surely GEnie and CompuServe are not devoid of dolts.  Surely these same pros
>saw their work bad-mouthed over there, too.  So what's the appeal of CompuServe
>over Usenet?  Just cheaper?  More accessable?  

Speaking from personal experience, the conversations on CompuServe seem
to start flame wars far less often, and the general level of discussion
seems to shy away from insults (which isn't to say that everybody likes
everything there - they just know the difference between being insulting
and critiquing).

It's not clear to me why this is so - perhaps r.a.c. tradition.  Perhaps
most of the people on CompuServe are paying for the privilege of using it,
whereas many people on r.a.c. are students who use the system more
haphazardly??

There are quite a few professionals active on the CompuServe comics forum,
without so many flame wars, and seldom is heard the "sucking up" word.
Peter David is available on both forums, perhaps he has a different 
opinion.

					Wendell
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jcowling@ophelia.UVic.CA (Scowling Jim Cowling)
Subject: Re: random thoughts about sandman...
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 06:49:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec26.043531.9271@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>zonker@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Regis):
>>I don't recall specifically what happened in classical mythology/classical 
>>greek theatre, but didn't the furies become the kindly ones when reason and 
>>compassion entered the world of politics or something?
>
>Sorry, no.  "The kindly ones" was a *euphemism* for the Furies, even when
>they were at their nastiest.

Sorry, no.  "The Kindly Ones" (The Eumenides) is an aspect of the Furies.  In
particular, in Aeschylus' "The Eumenides" (the third play in The Oresteia)
after Athena has offered the Furies a place in Athens as the guardian spirits
of her city, they become The Kindly Ones.  The Furies were to take revenge
on the city of Athens (and thereby Athena) for finding Orestes not guilty of
the murders of Clytemnestra and Aegisthus (whom he did kill, but the rules of
dIkE [dee-kay]) made it necessary/forgivable/etc.  They threatened to make
the land and people infertile.  In their aspect as The Kindly Ones, they would
make the city fertile, etc.  They would sing the spell of "nothing that strikes
a note of brutal conquest...Make the seed of men live on, the more they worship
you the more they thrive."

The province of Athena and the Furies becomes a life-giving and life-affirming
aspect in the boundaries of Athens.  

Even those not in Athens could pray/sacrifice to the Furies in their aspect as
The Kindly Ones.  Better to have their protection than to have them at your
heels, I guess.

>(There is no truth to the folk etymology that the name symbolizes the spirit
>of equitable retribution, as embodied in "Euripides pants, eumenides pants.")

Huh?

-------
Scowling Jim Cowling
Professional Evil Person
Creative Writing Department, University of Victoria (opinions disassociated)
-------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jdelisle@udel.edu (J. G. Delisle)
Subject: Re: Valiant Issues
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Boyz from the Dwarf
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 00:27:00 GMT

In article <2T9qwB8w165w@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca>, panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes...
>cliffr@pyuxf.uucp (25347-roberts) writes:
> 
>> Anyone who has more information on these, please post them.
>> There doesn't seem to be enough talk about the current Valiant issues.
> 
>I don't have *information* but I do have an editorial comment.  Since 
>many people have been recommending Valiant to me, and since I just hadn't 
>been able to get into the Valiant comics, in spite of my love of B arry 
>Windsor-Smith's art, I have over the past two days read SHADOWMAN #1-6.  
>I was determined to give it a chance; I wanted to like it; mysticism and 
>creatures of the night are fun.  Besides, I don't want to be forever 
>prejudiced against Shooter's writing because in the past I have found it 
>immature, dull, irritating and/or offensive.
> 
>So I read SHADOWMAN very carefully and I found it (sigh) immature, dull, 
>irritating and eventually very offensive.

	Did you dislike it because it was a superhero book, and not a clone
of Sandman or Cerebus, or was it just the fact that you didn't like the
writing or character?

>There was also a confusing discontinuity between #5 and #6, where the 
>story must have carried on in other comics -- an annoying habit that 
>Marvel and DC have that I would hope other companies would not emulate.

	I have to agree with you. Shadowman shouldn't have been involved in
Unity. Of all the Valiant titles, this title was the one that just didn't
work in Unity. Kind of like Spiderman being in the Infinity Whatever; he
just doesn't fit into the "clash of gods" idea.

>> Enough Sandman already.
>> 
> 
>....There's no such thing as enough Sandman.

	Yes, but there is such a thing as talking a subject to death. I'm not 
flaming anyone, but recent threads for Sandman have had everyone trying to 
guess where Destruction was; isn't it enough to let the writer tell the story,
or is it more fun to second-guess him?

	Joe Delisle

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| From the terminal of Joe Delisle      |                                    |
| jdelisle@loyola.edu  (preferred)      |    "Home is where the hell is."    |
| jdelisle@cs.loyola.edu                |                                    |
|              "I was up above it, but now I'm down in it"                   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Cerebus M&D 14 (spoilers)
Date: 24 Dec 1992 20:18:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, afarrell@maths.tcd.ie (Andrew Farrell) says:

>Cerebus 164: Cerebus meets Terim.

Was she?  One of her first lines was about a dream
 where an old man + an old woman brought her a 
 gold sphere.  My guess:  Tarim + Terim telling 
 her she was about to receive an Ascended visitor.
 This would preclude her being Terim.
From: nin15b53@merrimack.edu (Ed Greenwood)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: ** Comic Book Collector's Database **
Date: 1 Jan 93 18:40:46 GMT
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA

Could anyone offer suggestions for features to be included in a forthcoming
Comic Book Collector's Database?

What statistics are of value to Comic Book Enthusiasts?

Have you seen/purchased Comic Book Collector's software in the past?

What do you think of what you've seen?

All suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks for your help, and Happy New Year!
From: mamcconnell@happy.colorado.edu (Mark (MacBear) McConnell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: "Sunk the Lowest" Award for 1992
Date: 29 Dec 92 16:23:33 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <m3wHwB4w165w@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca>, panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:
> mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
> 
>> I think LSH got the rug yanked out from under them. The 
>> second series should *never* have started sans Levitz.
>> The appalling trash they publish under that name is an
> 
> But I happen to love that "appalling trash" better than anything I've 
> ever seen in the Legion previously.  Chacun a son gout and all that.  
> It's one of my favourite comics.  

LSH, as much as it has driven me up the wall, is still a comic
that I frequently buy.  I am totally unsatisfied with a comic
that in one year destroyed the moon and the earth for the purpose 
of driving the older LSH fans nuts (read the January 8 issue of 
CBG).

I like the characterization.  I like that Thom Kallor and Nura Nal
still "want" each other, but that Thom's character won't let him 
go to her.  Other characters are just as enjoyable.  But the _events_
that happen to these guys and gals are STUPID.  Most of it is done
for no reason worth doing it for, except as stated above.

Why do I waste my time with such drivel, except for an over 20 year 
history of reading about these guys?

mam

--
Mark (Sidewinder) McConnell  | 
mamcconnell@uccs.edu         | 
mamcconne@colospgs.BITnet    | 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen)
Subject: Re: New releases: December 29-31, 1993
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 19:53:06 GMT

Scowlin' Jim writes:
>> Comico
>>   Elementals 25
>>   Elementals Sex Special 4
>>   Elementals Sexy Lingerie Special 1A
>>        (editor's note:  who buys this crap?)

     Well, I'm guilty on 2 of 3 counts.  However, as I bought Sex Special 4 it 
was with the thought, "this is their last chance...if this is as stupid as #2 
and #3, I drop the title, period."  Well, it wasn't *that* bad.  Plot seemed to
take charge over the sex, although it was still not a book you'd read in 
public.  Also, the plot in the Tommy sequences was fairly important to the main
book's plot.  Bummer for all the minors that Comico is trying to attract, eh?
     <pulls out his copies which he just happened to be carrying>
     Sex Special: Two stories, which turn out to interweave.  First one is Mary
Lo and Tommy, and we find out more of what Tommy has lost of his humanity as 
the price of power and survival.  He is now more intellectual over emotional, 
and although he kept the emotions to an extent, he can no longer simply release
himself to them.  The two major upshots are: he acts more like a heartless 
bastard than before, and he can't have an orgasm (but he still has desire for 
sex...looks like he didn't think too carefully about what he was doing, eh?)  
Second story is more like a toned-down Ironwood story for most of the duration,
and although it answers a few interesting questions it isn't really germaine to
the main plot, except where it crosses over with the Tommy/Lo story.  As 
implied by the cover, Shapeshifter's costume gets animated and tries to steal 
the thermos full of Shapeshifter-goo.  Turns out Tommy was using Mary as a 
conduit for animating the costume, but we don't know if he was getting 
Shapeshifter to give her back to Saker or to destroy her for good.  So if 
you're reading Elementals but have given up on the Sex Specials, there's the 
plot you're missing.
     Elementals 25: Disjointed.  We get a deus ex machina way to cut down 
Oblivion (Of course he's not self powered.  Of course he has a source of 
external power that can be sabotaged.  Yeah, right.).  We get Tommy in a Saker 
jumpsuit.  And the Cold Mary hunt was confusing...does Cold Mary shapeshift?  
Since last issue it was implied that Dreamtime was turned over to the evil 
side, but are we to believe that was Cold Mary?  Considering how long it took 
for this issue to hit the stands, they could have found the time to run it past
an editor or two.
     Dave Van Domelen, actually bought the X-tinction Agenda issues, so you 
have some idea what his tolerance for crap is
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen)
Subject: Re: New Warriors #32
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 19:59:03 GMT

The Darkness Rising story will tie up in the New Warriors Annual this year, and
the person behind it is the New Villain for the annual, Void.  He's a junkie 
with vast darkforce powers he is only now discovering, but the darkness is 
controlling him instead of the other way around.  The previous two or three 
issues (Trans Sabaal ones) built up to this story, and it make a bit more sense
if you go back and read them (but only a bit).  Grab a copy of Previews if you 
can, they give a bit more info on it.
     Dave Van Domelen, only had the new logo for an issue and already they're 
destroying it...}->
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mamcconnell@happy.colorado.edu (Mark (MacBear) McConnell)
Subject: Re: LSH: Legionnaires method of determining the Leader
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 3 Jan 93 11:42:54 MDT

In article <1993Jan3.034959.799@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, tyg@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Tom Galloway) writes:
> 
> All together now...Tenzil. Tenzil. Tenzil. Tenzil. Tenzil. Tenzil. Tenzil.
> 
Okay...              Tenzil. Tenzil. Tenzil. Tenzil. Tenzil. Tenzil. Tenzil.

Wow.  I'm starting to feel woozy.  Is this a 30th C. form of brainwashing?
Now if only we can get more people to vote for the squid in this years
CBG.

mam
-- 
Mark (Sidewinder) McConnell  | 
mamcconnell@uccs.edu         | 
mamcconne@colospgs.BITnet    | 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Oops! sorry about that.
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:06:03 GMT

juan_e@spcvxb.spc.edu:
>...I made reference about the lack of oriental superheroes.  Anyway, after 
>I had written and submitted this, I came across "ASIAN SUPERHERO LIST"
>in RACM and felt kinda ... stupid.

I'm not sure you should feel stupid.  After all, the construction of that
list is, in itself, testimony to the relative rarity of such characters.
(And note, too, how many of the characters on that list are supporting
characters.)  It *is* true that minorities are, if not absent, then at
least in the...minority.

(I'm also not sure this is intrinsically bad.  Have you ever noticed that
most of the characters in Japanese comic books are Japanese?  The
ethnicity of the characters *will* reflect that of the target audience.)

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

Roses red and violets blew
  and all the sweetest flowres that in the forrest grew -- Edmund Spenser
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Annotated Stanley & His Monster #1
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:09:29 GMT


Re. p. 10, panel 5: Anyone remember what Power Girl's cat's name
is?
-- 
Andrew Solovay    
                "I know that, in America and under capitalism,
                 I am the freest woman in history."
                                --- Camille Paglia
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jdelisle@udel.edu (J. G. Delisle)
Subject: Re: Future Imperfect -- in jokes
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Boyz from the Dwarf
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:46:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.191427.13316@netcom.com>, dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes...
>Peter_A_David@cup.portal.com:
>>Ah, but how many of you spotted Waldo in the crowd scene on pages 2-3?
> 
>No...nope...I still can't find him.  Where's Waldo?

	Spoilers ahead... You were warned! :-)




















	He's on page 3. Find the "Limbs R Us" sign, and look at the pole
about a half inch to the left of the sign. Waldo's at the base.

	Joe Delisle

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| From the terminal of Joe Delisle      |                                    |
| jdelisle@loyola.edu  (preferred)      |    "Home is where the hell is."    |
| jdelisle@cs.loyola.edu                |                                    |
|              "I was up above it, but now I'm down in it"                   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jdelisle@udel.edu (J. G. Delisle)
Subject: Re: Sucking up......
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Boyz from the Dwarf
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:42:00 GMT

In article <72185@cup.portal.com>, Peter_A_David@cup.portal.com writes...
> [...]
>to shreds."  On occasion I have been asked.  Scott Lobdell, for example, was
>*very* anxious to know what people were saying about his writing.  I said
>to him, basically, "Ohhhh, Scott...you don't *really* want to know that."

	I hope you told him about the positive reactions he got on his
"Song's End" story on Uncanny X-Men!

	Joe Delisle

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| From the terminal of Joe Delisle      |                                    |
| jdelisle@loyola.edu  (preferred)      |    "Home is where the hell is."    |
| jdelisle@cs.loyola.edu                |                                    |
|              "I was up above it, but now I'm down in it"                   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: ejs16@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Eric Jaron Stieglitz)
Subject: Re: PAD & Pros
Reply-To: ejs16@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Eric Jaron Stieglitz)
Organization: Me, Myself, and I
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:28:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.161927.60419@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> ckc1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (CEDRICK KIT CHAN) writes:
>>This puts the comics writer who works in the big two mold in a hard
>>place.  His audience is *not* the adult reader, and to follow the
>          ^ (A SORT OF SEXIST STATEMENT, ISN'T IT?)

It isn't.

Eric Jaron Stieglitz aka ejs16@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
"With great power comes great responsibility"
We have been given the power of free speech.
Let's make sure that we use it wisely... 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tyg@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Tom Galloway)
Subject: Sandman: Lucien's Library
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 03:37:48 GMT

One that Carl Rigney sent me in email back during the "My spleen for a copy of
Cowboy Wally Show, my larynx for a copy of the Buckaroo Banzai novelization"
thread:

Buckaroo Banzai vs. The World Crime League as done by Kyle Baker.

"Ever since you fired me, and destroyed my life, I've been waiting, planning,
figuring out a way to get back at you."
"It took you twelve years to think of buying a gun." --Cowboy Wally
tyg   tyg@hq.ileaf.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: zonker@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (     Regis     )
Subject: random thoughts about sandman...
Organization: College of Engineering, Northeastern University
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 03:44:08 GMT

at the beginning of the "Dolls House" story line, we had some
references to Nada (sp?) in an issue....  the next major story line
was all about Dream changing his view and forgiving her and generally
acting less hard-nosed and immutable...

so, at the beginning of this story line, we had a bit of exposure to
Orpheus.  And the next major story line is supposed to be "the kindly
ones", who are the Fates in their toughest guise, suitable for (among
other things) dealing with the endless who take the lives of family
members.  

so maybe we're gearing up to have the next story line focusing on
Orpheus?  Perhaps Dream is going to finally forgive or otherwise deal
with Orpheus?  perhaps he will inadvertently cause Orpheus's to cease
to exist?  (i guess he can't really die, can he?)

He's already established some kind of truce with Calliope ...
Throughout the whole run of sandman, it seems to be all about Dream
becoming more compassionate...  developing friendships with mortals,
forgiving old lovers...  

I don't recall specifically what happened in classical
mythology/classical greek theatre, but didn't the furies become the
kindly ones when reason and compassion entered the world of politics
or something?  (it happened at the end of some trilogy of plays,
didn't it?)

--r
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks,rec.arts.comics.strips
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Happy Squid Appreciation Day -- the SQUIDDIES are here!
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 04:59:20 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1993Jan3.032922.13765@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>squiddies@queernet.org (rec.arts.comics awards):
>>3.  Favorite creative team (writer/artist/...)
>
>It's pretty hard to disentangle favorite writer from favorite creative team
>from favorite series, etc.  It would have been interesting to have a best-
>single-issue category, but I suppose that would be equally hard to untangle.

Often, it's hard to untangle this; often, it's not.  I agree with you about
the single issue idea; perhaps I should add it and invite the one or two voters
who've sent votes to send along a response.

>Can anyone be persuaded to do a year-in-review?  Every year, when the
>results are posted, I bruise my forehead by repeatedly going "I forgot
>that *that* came out just last year!"

I wish I had the raw materials handy.

>>10. Favorite team of characters
>
>Do the Endless qualify?  They have a collective name, powers, funny costumes,
>and angst.

"Meanwhile, back at the Hall of Angst..."
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc