HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bloch@wupost.wustl.edu (Charlene Bloch Abrams)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Waters Break...Go to Hospital..Why? (was Re: Use of drugs during l
Date: 28 Jul 1992 08:27:55 -0500
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
NNTP-Posting-Host: informatics.wustl.edu

In article <92209.151805CLH7@psuvm.psu.edu> Chris Himes <CLH7@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>I seem to recall my OB being concerned that after the water breaks a
>section of the baby's cord could drop and be caught between the baby's
>head and your cervix, cutting off oxygen to the baby.  I think this is
>pretty rare, and their may be other ways to determine if this has
>occured, without going to the hospital.
>
This is highly unlikely if the baby's head has engaged (i.e. it is firmly
in the pelvic opening), as there's no space! If the baby is still floating
free in the womb, this is a possibility (prolapse), but for first pregnancies
(according to my ob) in which the head usually engages well before the due
date (may not ahppen until labour with subsequent pregnancies), prolapse
just isn't possible. With any pregnancy, a broken sac means a non-sterile
environment for the baby, and the possibility of infection.

Charlene
From: dudding@sallyride.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Kate Dudding)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: helping kids fall asleep
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:24:22 GMT
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

In article <1992Jul23.020256.10927@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler) writes:
|> 
|>      First, I would ask if he knows a little while before he goes to bed -
|> say, 30 minutes before.

BTW 30 minutes may not have any meaning to a child, especially a 3 year old.

When my son started kindergarten, it was the first time I realized he had
no feel for time.  He even asked "Why is time important?" (I answered, after
much thought, "We use time to know when a particular show is going to be
on TV, or when we can meet friends at the playground, for example.")

Anyways, we have our own unit of time, a Smurf, because he really KNOWS how long
a Smurf TV show is.  We are gradually transitioning to half hours and
30 minutes (now that he has begun to learn to tell time).  I still say,
"Half a Smurf to blast-off time."  (blast-off time = time to get in the car
or go to the bus stop, sometimes there's even a countdown just prior to
'lift-off'.)

As always, IMHO and YMMV and good luck.

--
Kate Dudding                                   dudding@crd.ge.com
GE Corporate Research and Development
Bldg. KW, Room C315
PO Box 8, Schenectady, NY 12301                (518) 387-7164
From: jws@hp835.mitek.com (Jeanetha Wemken)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: misc.teenagers?
Keywords: don't receive alt groups
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:17:00 GMT
Organization: OpenConnect Systems, Dallas, TX

In article <4638@sersun1.essex.ac.uk> jane@essex.ac.uk (Shelton J) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.103440.20277@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> bgt@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (barbara.tongue) writes:
>>folks,
>>
>>being a new lurker to this group, i was wondering
>>
>>	a.) where to post articles about teenagers (this group seems to be
>>		about young children and i don't get any alt groups)
>>
>>	b.) has there ever been a push to creat misc.teenagers?
>>
>OK, I'll rise to this.  Yes, some of us _do_ have teenagers, but if
>anyone else is like me, we're trying to forget about it :-)
>
>Seriously, I'd be interested in misc.teenagers, but in the meantime,
>has anyone any advice to offer on how to get a stroppy 14 year old
>to do as he is asked?
>
>We don't have much problem with the big issues - he is a decent kid
>who doesn't give us sleepless nights.  No staying out, no smoking, no
>drugs etc... BUT
>

Be glad that you don't have the problems with the big issues and give
him credit for that.

>He can be the most obnoxious being on this earth - particularly to me.
 
We laugh that a two-year olds "job" is to be disagreeable and say "NO",
maybe the teen's "job" is to be obnoxious.  

...stuff about a particular behavior deleted...

>
>Anyone have similar problems?  How do you get your kids to behave
>in a civilised fashion?

ALL OF US.  They get civilized when they move out and have kids of
their own.

>
>Jane

I think there is a reason there isn't much traffic about teens.  If
you have one you know that you are absolutley NOT an expert.  Raising
a teenager is a humbling experience.  I also take "advice" with a
grain of salt.  I don't know why there is such a difference in my
feelings of seeking/giving child rearing advice between my two-year
old and my teenager.  

With teens the best advice I have is to treat them as respectfully
and fairly as you can as you administer the dicipline that they so
desperatly need and ask for.  I have made so many mistakes with
raising my child that I am suprized that he has ended up as "normal"
as he has.  I love him endlessly and yet at times have wondered how
he would ever live to be 20. ...well, he is eight months away from
20 and I am now greiving that he is growing up/away.

With my two year old I am still trying to raise her without making
any mistakes ;-) and she is stll young enough not to remind me that
I have.  

I don't mean to make light of Jane's problem with her son, I know
how exasperating it can be.

Jeanetha - Mom to Gregg(19) and Laura Jean(2)
Software Engineer for OpenConnect Systems, Inc.
jws@hp835.oc.com      Carrollton, TX
From: zoe@cypress.West.Sun.COM (Zoe Friedlander)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Thanks + Question re: Sharing between one-year-olds (LONG)
Date: 21 Jul 1992 20:35:07 GMT
Organization: Sunsoft, A Division of Sun Microsystems Corporation
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sparkle
Originator: zoe@sparkle.West.Sun.COM

First of all, I got _many_ fantastic responses to my request for
positive stories about having children close together.  I am still
working on responding to them, but if I haven't emailed you yet,
I still really appreciate it.  

Now I have another situation I would like opinions on.  As to whether
to post or email me, I don't know; this might be a subject of general 
interest.  You choose.

As I've mentioned before, my sister and her family live downstairs from
me.  Her 11.75 month old son and my 12.75 month old son are taken care
of by the same babysitter, and in addition, on the weekends she often
brings Isaiah upstairs to play with Aaron or I bring Aaron downstairs.
Aaron is about 1 inch and 4 lbs bigger than Isaiah (Aaron is built very
sturdily and Isaiah is on the small side). 

Aaron is rather aggressive, and will do things
like pull at Isaiah, exploring his face, or pulling on his arm or
something.  Isaiah hates that, and fusses, and I (or whoever's there)
always stop it immediately and tell Aaron not to do that, that Isaiah
doesn't like it.  The other thing is that they
both are often interested in whichever toy the other one has, and
sometimes Isaiah, but more often Aaron, will try to take the other
one's toy.  When Aaron tries to grab Isaiah's toy, Isaiah often just
gives it up, and just watches Aaron, or turns to some other toy. 
However, once in a while, he really resists, and in those cases he
seems to be able to hold on to the toy--that is, prevent Aaron from
taking it away.  When that happens, Aaron fusses briefly and then
turns to something else.

To me, this kind of interaction seems fine; I feel like I've seen 
that Isaiah doesn't really care that much if Aaron takes a toy away,
and when he does care, he makes his feelings known.  (If Isaiah really
wants the toy but Aaron gets it away and Isaiah fusses, we do give it
back to him.) The problem as I see it is that my sister doesn't think
this is okay.  She thinks that neither of the boys should be permitted
to take toys from each other; that we should intervene all the time,
and this morning she told the babysitter that she should intervene too.

When I intervene and take a toy from Aaron that he took from Isaiah and
I return it to Isaiah, Aaron cries quite a bit and soon tries to take
the toy again, whereas (as I said above) if Isaiah defends the toy 
himself, Aaron goes on to something else.

There must be tons of net.experience out there in dealing with this 
kind of thing.  What do you do?
From: szakhour@next.com (Sharon Zakhour)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Prenatal/PostPartum exercise class in Foster City
Date: 22 Jul 92 01:23:41 GMT
Reply-To: szakhour@next.com (Sharon Zakhour)
Distribution: ba


I've restricted distribution to Bay Area, but if it gets away, I apologize.

I want to recommend a prenatal exercise class I've been going to since I was 3  
months pregnant (I'm now 6 months).  It's offered through the San Mateo  
community center program -- at the Lakeshore Community center.  (Just off  
Highway 101 in San Mateo/Foster City.)

It's given twice a week (Monday and Thursday) at 7pm.  The cost is $30 per  
month.  The instructor -- Donna Lanam -- is nuts about kids and has 4 of her  
own.  

The first half of every class is warm-up and low impact aerobics.  The second  
half is leg work and floor exercises.  Sometimes we'll take a walk around the  
water in Foster City.  During the second half of the class we work out in a  
circle and chat.  Several of the women already have children so much of the  
conversation revolves around child rearing issues.  It's a support group in a  
way -- kind of like misc.kids but in the flesh.

They have a couple of traditions.  One is that when you have your child, you  
come back and visit the class with the baby and relate the labor story.   
(Eventually some of the mothers rejoin the class for awhile.)

The second tradition occurs on or after someone's due date.  They perform and  
Stork Dance and it is evidently highly successful in inducing labor.  (I  
haven't been present for this yet since the last two students who gave birth  
were on or before their due dates.)

If you are interested, drop me a line and I can give you more info (like  
directions to the center or Donna's phone number).

Sharon
sharon@next.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: hough@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Susan Hough)
Subject: Re: how long to feel back normal after pregnancy?
Summary: ok, here's mine 
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:33:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.163008.6631@nas.nasa.gov> choi@wk59.nas.nasa.gov (Diana Choi) writes:
>In article <mylene.711776752@swanee> mylene@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Mylene Pijpers) writes:
>>Some months ago I just walked in the sun and I thought: YEP! I feel
>>physically normal again, like I felt before Josanne was born. (Say
>>8 months, she is 11 mo. now)
>
>Its been 6 months for me, and I finally feel perfectly normal when walking
>and lifting things, though my c-section scar is still pink and has a 
>slight burning sensation. 

My Cesarean scar was pink and raised for 2+ years, and a doctor commented
that it was likely to stay that way.  Sometime during my second pregnancy/
delivery, though, the scar flattened and turned almost the same color as
the surrounding skin.  Don't ask me why.  8 years later, it is 
barely perceptable.
 
>Please post the responses ....I remember trying to find information about
>how long it takes to get back in shape after the birth and not finding any.
>For me, (and I think a lot of other women) a lot of feeling physically 
>and psychologically normal again has to do with losing that weight. There's

It took me 9-18 months to get back to pre-pregnancy weight after my
3 deliveries, but I would say that I felt pretty much "back to normal"
much sooner than that.  For me, I think, getting back to a regular exercise
schedule may be the key, and that happened by about 3-4 months each time.

Sue
From: bloch@wupost.wustl.edu (Charlene Bloch Abrams)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Perms, Dyes, and pregnancy ????
Date: 22 Jul 1992 08:40:02 -0500
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
NNTP-Posting-Host: informatics.wustl.edu

In article <8ePJL6G00WB2M1dUNl@andrew.cmu.edu> sb3t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Shirl G. Grant) writes:
>Do that many people really do these dangerous things while pregnant?  Geeze,
>you're not even supposed to be around the fumes, let alone have the stuff
>soak into your scalp and then into your bloodstream!  My barber (she hates
>the word hairdresser) wasn't even allowed to be in the shop when a perm or
>coloration was being done, she learned about these dangers in beauty school!
>

Actually, these things are NOT unsafe - it seems beauty schools are way
behind in terms of information. According to my OB, the problem (with
perms) was that they used to use formaldehyde - about 10 - 15 years ago!
Since then, perms etc are perfectly safe to use while pregnant, although
according to my hairdresser, perms often don't take as well on
pregnant women.

So all you pregnant women who are starting to feel the tiniest bit unattractive
and in need of artificial help, go for it if you like!

Charlene
From: sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: God's Family Values
Keywords: Historical perspective - positive for both sides!
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:46:06 GMT
Reply-To: sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King)
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: Software Technology Research Lab, Tektronix, Inc.

In article <1992Jul23.230636.16878@watson.ibm.com>, john@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
|> In article <23JUL199209072925@addvax.llnl.gov>, kettering@addvax.llnl.gov (Brett 'Volleyball Is My Game' Kettering) writes:
|> |>                                                          It's OK if you don't
|> |> believe in a Diety, but some of us do and do not consider that Diety to be
|> |> pagan.
|> 
|> Some of us even know how to spell "deity"!  :-) :-)
|> 
|> I agree with your point, by the way.  If it's related to children and
|> child-raising, then this is an appropriate place to discuss it.  The
|> free marketplace of ideas will decide if an old book's advocacy of the
|> value of child-beating is a worthwhile pursuit.

A little historical perspective is in order here...

If you know the job of a shepherd, then you would also know how a rod is
used.  The paradigm was a familiar one during the time of Christ, but is
grossly mis-interpreted on both sides (Judeo/Christian and non-Judeo/
Christian) of this fence.

The shepherd used his rod to gently guide his sheep.  The hook in the
rod was used to pull sheep out of deep ravines and creek beds.  The rod
was also used as a weapon against wolves.  The shepherd loved his flock,
and never used the rod to beat the sheep.  The modern day shepherd uses
his rod in the same way.  If anyone has ever been to the middle-east,
and witnessed the modern-day shepherd, you would observe the same practice.

Thus, the references to "rod" in the Old Testement do not condone spanking
or beating of the child.  They indicate that you should gently nudge them
from time-to-time, that you should rescue them in times of need, and you
should protect them from enemies.  And as the shepherd loved and nurtured
every sheep in his flock so too should a parent with their children.

Rather a nice thought, IMHO.

Steven (sjk@strl.labs.tek.com)

"Sometimes if you have a cappuccino and then try again it will work OK."
(Dr. Brian Reid)  "Sometimes one cappuccino isn't enough." (Marcus Ranum)
"A double vanilla latte always works."  (Me)
From: CXF12@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Second children & discipline (was Re: Alternatives to Spanking?)
Date: 31 Jul 92 13:02:30 GMT
 <1992Jul29.184517.23401@mdd.comm.mot.com>
 <1992Jul30.144220.15259@cs.brown.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Jul30.144220.15259@cs.brown.edu>, mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H.
Nodine) says:
>
>On a related note, Anna seems to be learning what we expect of her from
>the way we deal with Timmy.  She seems to be consciously trying to do
>things that Timmy does and we respond positively to (like setting the
>table, and coming when we call him), and also to be consciously avoiding
>things that we respond negatively to (like throwing his toys).  Has
>anyone else noted this in their children?

Well, since my second child isn't here yet (but is due any day now :-)), I
can't comment from first-hand experience.  However, my mother-in-law (who has
seven children) has frequently commented that once the first child was taught
to behave well, the others just "fell in line".  She claims that the younger
children in the family were relatively easy to handle in terms of discipline
because they knew from watching the older ones what was expected of them.  It
certainly is an incentive to try to do things well the first time, isn't it?

Carol Fischer (CXF12@psuvm.psu.edu)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry)
Subject: Re: Use of drugs during labor - and electronic monitoring
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:18:02 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1992Jul27.172107.11273@watson.ibm.com> lisa@watson.ibm.com (Lisa Leutenegger) writes:

 > The hospital (Albert Einstein in the Bronx) we where I will be giving 
 > birth has a policy that all women must be hooked up to an electronic 
 > fetal monitored (EFM) when they first arrive.  Our midwives just run 
 > a 20 minute strip and then if everything appears okay they turn off 
 > the machine.  After a lot of discussion and reading my husband and I 
 > have decided not to allow any electronic monitoring at all.  The hospital
 > will of course make us sign a waiver saying we refuse the procedure.
 > Our midwives don't have many patients that refuse the monitoring - and 
 > the midwives themselves seem to support its use.

I'm surprised by this, since I can't think of a possible downside to
using the monitor.  I'm talking about the nonintrusive kind that they
simply strap to your stomach, not the wire that they stick into the
fetus' head.  There are a number of upsides to my mind, the most
important of which is that it allows the delivery team to notice and
respond to conditions that could lead to disaster and would otherwise
go unnoticed.  Another upside is that the coach knows before the
mother-to-be when labor pains are beginning to subside.  My wife was
very thankful for this, since she was able to extract some relief just
from knowing that the worst was over, before she was able to actually
detect that herself.

I'd be interested to know what reasons there would be against using
EFM.  Thanks!
--
Andy Lowry, lowry@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7925
IBM Research, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: dma9w@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Dawn M. Adelsberger-Mangan)
Subject: Getting hair cut
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:20:33 GMT


How do the misc.kidders feel about this....

Annabelle is nearly 4 and has (what I consider) beautiful, longish
hair.  I LIKE her long hair - I like being able to put bows in her
hair (alright call me sexist - although I am working on a Ph.D. in
engineering )  and I like the variety of hairstyles that she can
wear with her hair long.

Yesterday Annabelle told me (and not for the first time) that she
wanted to go to the barber shop and get her hair cut.  She doesn't
want shorter hair - she wants SHORT hair.  To buy some time I did
what any respectable parent would do - I lied and said the barber
shop was closed ! :)

In a conversation with my own mother I brought this issue up and she
mentioned (while pointedly pushing some of my own buttons) that since
I as a "modern" parent was so respectful of my daughters wishes
concerning food, clothing etc, I should also respect her wishes
regarding hair length.  I brought up the issue of "chosing my battles",
I don't care nearly as much about what she wears as I do about her 
hair length.  Now I know that hair grows back - but I don't want her
hair short !  It's hard for me to tell how much this means to her -
she has brought it up before - but well over a month ago.   So
(hopefully) it really isn't that important to her.....

What do you all think ?  Should a 4 year old make a decision regarding
hair length ?

                     Dawn Adelsberger-Mangan
                     dma9w@virginia.edu
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 29 Jul 1992 07:17:04 MST
From: <ICKAD@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Number for Olympic Officials?

I *absolutely* agree with Connie's opinion of "Sir Charles" Barkley:  he
is truly an embarrassment for our country, and certainly no role model for
our kids.  I'm very glad that Jamie cannot yet understand the inane things
he says  (e.g., when the Olympic officials told Charles to stop writing a
column for _USA Today_, he accused them of being "jealous" of our "Dream
Team" and "having an ego problem").

Unfortunately, he has fairly recently been traded to the Phoenix Suns! :-(

But, on a related issue, it really bothers me when the NBC commentators keep
building up the disappointments of the athletes.  For example, when Jenny
Thompson came in second to the German swimmer and won the silver medal instead
of the gold, all the commentators could do was harp on the fact that she wasn't
first.  Jamie is quite new to this wonderful sports event, and he is learning
how exciting international sports competition can be.  He jumps up and down
(with us :-)  during the races, and claps and cheers at the end, but when
Jenny came in second, Jamie said, "She lost something."  I pointed out to Jamie
that she *won* the silver medal.  The brilliant gymnast (Kim Z.) did, indeed,
fall off the balance beam, but it wasn't the end of the world--or even the end
of her career.  She came back very nicely, thank you, and helped the U.S. team
win the first medal in a non-boycotted Olympics since 1948.   When Matt Biondi
came in fifth yesterday, the NBC commentators again tried to get him to talk
about his big disappointment; instead, Matt very graciously said that he had
his day in the sun and he was just glad to be competing in another Olympics.

I've worked with college student athletes for over 12 yrs., and although my job
is to see that they graduate, I have certainly shared their "joy of victory and
agony of defeat".  I know how hard they work toward their athletic goals.  But,
more than anything, it seems to me that their greatest joy is in competing.  It
isn't easy to make the Olympic team, and anyone who does is greatly honored.
I really don't want children to get the idea that winning is everything . . .
or even that if an athlete who didn't come in first has "lost".  Participating
in these games is a once-in-a-lifetime experience beyond compare.  We, as the
viewing audience, are fortunate to be able to witness the fruits of many years
of hard work to see a competition among the most talented athletes in the
world.

Connie, as for a phone number (or address, even) to register a complaint with
the IOC, I'll ask around the dept. and will e-mail you if I find anything out.

--Jamie's Mommy (Karen Davis)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer)
Subject: Re: Fears in toddlers
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc. - Plano TX
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:10:39 GMT

In article <1682B7DEA.M16585@mwvm.mitre.org> M16585@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
> This is in addition to my earlier post---I remembered a couple of other fears
...
> Three-Women who smell like the prefume section of dept stores, you know, the
> ones that you can smell the fragrance they are wearing from twenty paces

	They scare me too!  :-)

-- 
Mark Meyer                                               | mmeyer@dseg.ti.com |
Texas Instruments, Inc.                                  +--------------------+
Every day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don't speak for TI.
      In the land of three-legged men, the man with two legs doesn't date much.
Newsgroups: misc.kids