HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gajit@owlnet.rice.edu (Ajit Kurian George)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,rice.politics
Subject: Re: Bible, Homosexuality, Translations, etc.
Date: 16 Sep 92 03:31:13 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Rice University

In article <7m64qB3w165w@keys.lonestar.org>, cwinemil@keys.lonestar.org (Chris Winemiller) writes:
|> gajit@owlnet.rice.edu (Ajit Kurian George) writes:
|> 
|> > In article <iyXwqB2w165w@keys.lonestar.org>, cwinemil@keys.lonestar.org
|> > (Chris Winemiller) writes:
|> > |> Well, the apostle Peter meets the preceding criteria.  He said:
|> > |> 
|> > |>     Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our
|> > |>     dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
|> > |>     He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these
|> > |>     matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to
|> > |>     understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do
|> > |>     the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.  (2 Peter 3:15-16)
|> > |>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> > |> So Peter says that Paul's letters are Scripture, just like "the other
|> > |> Scriptures."
|> > 
|> ...
|> > In any case, this is a circular argument, using words translated by
|> > ignorant and unstable people to prove that they are possibly ignorant
|> > and unstable.
|> 
|> You may choose any translation you wish and you will see the same point:
|> Peter says that Paul's writings are Scripture.  The preceding quotation was
|> from the NIV.  I give you the NASB:
|> 
|>     and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also
|>     our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote
|>     to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these
|>     things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the
|>     untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the
|>     Scriptures, to their own destruction.
|> 
|> I have not quoted the KJV though you will likely find it saying the same
|> thing w.r.t Peter's opinions of Paul's writings.  I daresay the same is
|> true of the Greek.  Know whereof you speak before representing yourself
|> carelessly on issues like this.  If you wish to disagree with what the
|> text says, fine.  But please, don't play the game of saying a given
|> ancient text does not have the words it truly contains.  That is neither
|> intellectually ethical nor honest.

Same point.  "the untaught and unstable distort."  The point is, you are not
reading the original text.  You are reading a translated version.  You have no
idea who the (numerous) translators are, let alone how taught or stable they
are.

Tell me how it is intellectually ethical or honest to take literally the word
of God as quoted and translated by _humans_.

  -Ajit
From: dboyes@is.rice.edu (David E Boyes)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,rice.politics
Subject: Re: Anti-choice vs. Pro-abortion (was Re: Houston Defending Choice Coalition needs you)
Date: 12 Sep 1992 05:32:09 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <1992Sep9.172534.14284@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:

>>That's why I specifically said "fetus". A fetus that survives to
>>term is capable of surviving independently of the mother, and no
>>longer falls under the criterion I quoted earlier -- once it's
>>born, it's no longer a fetus.

>I guess you're going to have to define the line between 'fetus' and
>'born', then.  I raise this because my sister DIDN'T survive to term.
>She was way early.  By your definition, that means she was not human.

Hmm. She was successfully delivered and the umbilicus severed? At
that point, she's surviving independently of the mother, even
momentarily. A first-trimester fetus would not survive the
interruption of blood flow for that long. In that case, I would
consider your sister human.

>Well, that means she still wasn't human.  They had to work pretty hard
>to keep her alive.  I think that human brain function makes a better
>line. 

I could accept that distinction. My friends in the medical fields
tend toward that definition from an ethical standpoint, but claim
that it isn't practically workable because medical science
currently has a limited ability to determine what makes up
"human" brain function. They're a little edgy about what beyond
autonomic nerve functions is really "human", thus the
"significant measures" clause in my original posting.

>Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for m

-- 
David Boyes
dboyes@rice.edu
From: popec@rivdell.sccsi.com (PopeC)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Taxes and lies
Date: 14 Sep 92 00:32:08 GMT
Organization: Rivendell BBS / Hou, TX. / +1 713 941 2236

Houston Post  Heard and Noted   9-13-92

I went along with one Democratic Tax increase, and i am
not going to do it evr again. Ever. Ever.
                                            -George Bush

"It wasn't a pledge."
                       - Marlin Fitzwater, White House Spokesman
                         On Bush's Comment about the tax increase.

"We are now greatly in debt to Mr. Fitzwater
for interpereting the president's comments.  Many 
Americans might have otherwise been fooled this
close to election time into believing that the
president actually meant what he said."
                       -Al Gore

BWAahhhhh!  HAh! HAh!  What a laff riot!  Stop it George!  Yer
killing me!  Ho! Hah!  

"It's about trust."
                         - Lying George Bush

Hah!  HAH!  HAH!  Move over David Letterman!  Hah!  HAh!


**********************************************************************
* Pope Charles - Subgenius pope Of Houston & The Golden Triangle Area*
*       Laughing at everything in the Universe, including the        *
*       concept of laughing at everything in the Universe.           *
*               rivdell.sccsi.com    Houston, Texas                  *
**********************************************************************
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (exuptr@exu.ericsson.se)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,rice.politics
Subject: Re: Sex Education <fairly long, but good!>
Keywords: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:31:38 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Sep11.025401.19121@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell) writes:
>In article <exuptr.485.716148873@exu.ericsson.se> exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (exuptr@exu.ericsson.se) writes:

>>Which is why I'd rather do it all myself, instead of having the school give 
>>out facts without regard to our morality.
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

>Perhaps you didn't mean like it sounds, but do you really think that
>facts could contravene your morality?

Uh, yes.

>Don't take that question as an offense, it's just that when I read
>your statement, it struck me as a strange way to word your objection.

Perhaps you are right.  Let me word it more accurately:

I'd rather give my child the morals and facts as a "package" that is 
integral, rather than having to integrate the school's factual teaching with 
our (my wife and I) moral teaching.  Why?  Mainly because I think it is
important that the child learn to deal with all the issues at the same time,
rather than leaving some for later.  A teacher's own beliefs will invariably 
color a presentation anyway, even if the teacher is a good one.

>Thanks for your extensive comments on the issue, though.

You're welcome.  Thanks for your courtesy.   (It's beginning to sound like
a mutual-admiration society ;-)
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                       - Douglas Adams
  - Patrick Taylor                                       (Arthur Dent)
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                       "Don't let the .se fool you"
    or exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org, exu.exuptr@memo.ericsson.se
Xref: sparky tx.politics:5212 alt.politics.clinton:5379
From: garrett@Ingres.COM (QUOTE OF THE YEAR)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: The blame game
Summary: Try again
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:56:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <1992Sep09.043421.986@NeoSoft.com>, hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes...
>In article <21472@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep05.163911.28100@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>> >The unemployment rate was 4.9% in 1970, 8.5% in 1975, 6.1% in 1978 and
>> >7.1% in 1980.  It looks to me like under Carter we had a modest decrease
>> >in unemployment from 8.5% to 7.1%.  What data are you using?
>> 
>> What was the unemployment rate in 1981 and 1982 when Carter's policies
>> were still taking their toll?
>
>Give your constraints that the first year or two doesn't count, I have
>Carter at 6.1 (1978), 7.1% (1980), 7.6% (1981).  Reagan didn't even
>beat that until 1984, when he got 7.5%.

Where are you getting your information from? I clearly remember 
unemplyment above 10% for a few months in later 82'. Also, unemployment
was above 9% for most of 82' and 83'. 

  By the end of his term he had
>gotten it down to 5 or 6%.

Early in 83' the unemployment stats began to be changed to exclude
those who dropped off unemployment without getting a job and those 
underemployed, and included the military into the employment stats.
The real number of unemployment in later 82' was actually around 15%.
(I've posted this and the sources before.)

  Carter's record is by no means admirable, but
>if you consider 7.6% "near depression", then you must consider the current
>situation "near depression" and blame Bush like you blamed Carter.
> 
>I only have data through 1989, but if you average Reagan's unemployment
>from 1982 through 1989, I get 7.9%.  His average is higher than Carter's
>high!
> 
>Doug Andersen

-Garrett
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Pro-choice vs. Pro-Li
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:05:21 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <3306.91.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us> david.brooks@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Brooks)  writes:

>FJM> It hardly seems that it is necessary to CRIMINALIZE this in order to
>FJM> make sure that someone gets help.  After all, isn't the state allowed
>FJM> to determine that someone is a danger to themself or others and put
>FJM> them into treatment that way?

>FJM> Just out of curiousity, what do these kinds of stupid laws mandate in
>FJM> the way of sentencing?

>   I highly doubt that suicide is considered "criminal" in any state. In
>   California, it is a misdemeanor, and is used strictly to ensure that

Uh, aren't "misdemeanors" also 'criminal'?


-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
From: pdl2r@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Peter D. Lauren)
Subject: Re: The blame game
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 21:45:12 GMT

In article <PZaDr*jX0@caleb.UUCP> jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.205150.3382@pony.Ingres.COM>, QUOTE OF THE YEAR writes:
>
>> Pardon my ignorance, but how does the growth of the 80's cause the 
>> current recession unless you are saying that we morgaged our future
>> in the 80's. In that case I agree with you.
>
>There are economic cycles.  The economy goes up, then the economy goes down.
>This has been going on for hundreds of years.  It is hardly a case of "paying
>for the 80's."
>

Yes, but there hasn't been a downswing like this since the great depression.

>> Like FDR did when he successfully reduced unemployment.
>
>Yeah, he did it by getting us into WWII.

The worst of the depression was over by the late 30's.  By that stage,
unemployment was already going down.

Peter Lauren.
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (exuptr@exu.ericsson.se)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,rice.politics
Subject: Re: Homosexuality and the Bible: Refutations (Long)
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:15:17 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <BuBMMJ.5E4@rice.edu> patrick@is.rice.edu (Patrick L. Humphrey) writes:

>I suspect that if you were pinned down, you'd be pretty ignorant of what
>Jesus said in the first place...that seems to be a basic requirement of 
>fundies these days.

Bigotry rules the worldly...  

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                       - Douglas Adams
  - Patrick Taylor                                       (Arthur Dent)
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                       "Don't let the .se fool you"
    or exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org, exu.exuptr@memo.ericsson.se
Xref: sparky tx.politics:5159 alt.politics.clinton:5111
From: lazarus@ocf.berkeley.edu (Andrew J. Lazarus)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Lost articles at my site
Date: 13 Sep 1992 04:51:03 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbang.berkeley.edu

The last two days of articles in these groups have vanished (although
they may come back, things here are always an adventure). In particular,
I will not have seen any followups to my dissection of Haugh's bizarre
claims that a small minority of Americans pay 97% of the taxes. If
necessary, please repost or catch me up by email.

andy
From: popec@rivdell.sccsi.com (PopeC)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Insurance cards
Date: 14 Sep 92 00:28:30 GMT
Organization: Rivendell BBS / Hou, TX. / +1 713 941 2236

Yeah, there have been people selling blank or fake proof of insurance 
cards in Texas.  It is illegal and a number of people have indeed been 
popped for it.  And if you have a fake set of proof of insurance papers 
in your car and you are involved in an accident, you have of course just 
been busted if the cops are in anyway involved.  All in all, not a good 
idea to get involved with this sort of stuff in any way shape or form.

**********************************************************************
* Pope Charles - Subgenius pope Of Houston & The Golden Triangle Area*
*       Laughing at everything in the Universe, including the        *
*       concept of laughing at everything in the Universe.           *
*               rivdell.sccsi.com    Houston, Texas                  *
**********************************************************************
Xref: sparky tx.politics:5094 alt.politics.clinton:4903
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: The blame game
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:45:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin

>In article <1992Sep2.205150.3382@pony.Ingres.COM>, QUOTE OF THE YEAR writes:
>> Like FDR did when he successfully reduced unemployment.

FDR's policies, channeling private money into government paper doll
factories, did no good for the economy.  The depression lasted many
years longer due to his policies than it otherwise would have.

Recessions are ended by reduced government intervention.
Reduced taxes, (with equally reduced spending.)
Reduced regulation.
Reduced trade restraint.

	FDR did none of these.  And the depression went on for YEARS 
	because of him.

-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
 FICA doesn't help the poor.  It mostly goes to old people with incomes >$40k.
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (exuptr@exu.ericsson.se)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,rice.politics
Subject: Re: Homosexuality and the Bible: Refutations (Long)
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:57:54 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <BuDH6v.9u0@rice.edu> patrick@is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey) writes:
>Well, if you don't like the "worldly", you can always go somewhere other
>than the world, I suppose...:-)

Yes, or do something about it ;-)

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                       - Douglas Adams
  - Patrick Taylor                                       (Arthur Dent)
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                       "Don't let the .se fool you"
    or exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org, exu.exuptr@memo.ericsson.se
From: elg@elgamy.sccsi.com (Eric Lee Green)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Anti-choice vs. Pro-abortion (was Re: Houston
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:40:45 GMT
Organization: Eric's Amiga 2000 @ Home

From article <aemqqB3w165w@keys.lonestar.org>, by cwinemil@keys.lonestar.org (Chris Winemiller):
[lengthy quotes from Franklin and Jefferson deleted:]
> There is no conflict between the two quotes.  Note that both men acknowledge
> God freely; and (though not explicit here) the "one code of morality" to
> which Jefferson refers would be the morality of the Christian religion.

Note that Jefferson was a Deist, not a Christian. He did not personally
believe in any organized religion but, rather, believed that religion was a
personal matter between a man and his maker.

I seriously doubt that the "one code of morality" he referred to was the
"Christian" code. Jefferson was a bit suspicious about some so-called
"Christian morality". I suspect, rather, a "universal" code (which, of
course, would be heavily influenced by Christian morality, since that was a
major influence upon Jefferson's thought).

It's always unwise to infer too much from a one-paragraph quotation.

As for the issue of prayer and government: I suspect Jefferson really had
no problem with that, but probably would have been upset if only
representatives of one religion were allowed to lead these prayers.

--
 Eric Lee Green  elg@elgamy.sccsi.com         Dodson Elementary
 (713) 437-6908  uunet!nuchat!elgamy!elg      Houston, TX
                "Kids are kids, no matter what"
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
From: kossack@owlnet.rice.edu (Jordan Marc Kossack)
Subject: Re: Clinton's Economic Plan
Followup-To: tx.politics
Reply-To: kossack@qvi.com
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:21:10 GMT

In article <PETONIC.92Sep9185935@daisy.hal.com> petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic) writes:
- 
- >Well....yeah.  When did medical care become an inalienable right?
- 
- Persuit of happiness, buddy.  Tough to do it if you're 6' under.
- Unless, of course, you're Hindu.

   Freedom of religion, buddy.  If you choose not to be Hindu ... 

-- 
 Jordan M Kossack  |  
  kossack@qvi.com  |      I  LOVE  WHITESPACE  !!!    
  +1 713 240 2073  |
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Clinton's Economic Pl
Date: 13 Sep 92 01:36:19 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <3472.91.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us> david.brooks@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Brooks) writes:
>   Well, since Deism explicity denies the divinity of Christ, I would
>   think that the two would be mutually exclusive.

Somehow this sounds like the proof that Freemasonry is incompatible
with Christianity ...

Look, I posted a note from a history text which stated that the man
who invented Deism was a Christian, and apparently very "zealous" in
his Christianity at that.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                   | "The US Government has the Midas Muffler
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151            |  touch: everything they touch turns to
UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh |  shit."
Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org      |                  -- Jay Maynard
From: jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Homosexuality and the Bible: Refutations (Long)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:31:18 GMT
 <7265@lib.tmc.edu>
Organization: is sometimes desirable

In article <7265@lib.tmc.edu>, Jay Maynard writes:

> In article <jKgEr*aY0@caleb.UUCP> jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett) writes:
> >Yeah, right.  That is why the KJV is adamantly AGAINST homosexuality and fornication.
> >Did it ever occur to you that he did NOT care about it?  Many things authorized by
> >kings never acquire the personal interest of the king.  Can you name even one
> >instance of King James changing the translation?
> 
> No, nor does my position require it. King James did not have to explicitly
> change the translation in order to have influenced it. The understanding I had
> - from an Episcopalian priest - was that James commissioned the translation in
> part to support Henry VIII's string of divorces, and to bolster their claim
> that the Roman Catholic Church had strayed from the path.

But it doesn't support divorce!


                                                Jim Pritchett


UUCP:  rwsys.lonestar.org!caleb!jdp
 or    utacfd.uta.edu!rwsys!caleb!jdp
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Church and state again
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:57:34 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <1992Sep10.230803.23674@watson.ibm.com> john@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:

>In article <7290@lib.tmc.edu>, jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>|> In article <1992Sep10.161624.41204@watson.ibm.com> johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
>|> >It may be pointless to argue with Robert Heinlein on tx.politics, but
>|> >communism is not a religion.
>|> 
>|> It isn't? Why not? After all, it is essentially the worship of the State and
>|> the People...it's close enough to a religion for me.

>No deity.  Communism is a political and economic system.  It doesn't
>involve the "worship" of anything.

Quite correct.  Not only that, but what most people seem to think of
as 'communism' isn't.  This is why Karl Marx, on his deathbed, made
the statement that he was not a Communist (given what the Russians had
done with his theories).

Communism is actually a quite wonderful system.  Unfortunately, in
order for it to work you need a population with only 'quite wonderful'
people in it.  Once you put REAL people in it, it stinks on ice.

[There are some aspects of libertarian politico-economic theory that
seem to have the same problem.  They require too many real-world
aspects of human interactions to be 'hand-waved' away.]


-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Xref: sparky tx.politics:5010 alt.politics.clinton:4710