HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Enfield Questions
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:00:40 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Dec17.015920.5142@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
#
#One drawback is that, aside from one company (Hornady, I believe), you
#absolutely MUST use surplus ammo because new .303 British works at higher
#pressures that the Enfield can take safely.  Also, that surplus ammo will
#be corrosively primed, so you have to clean the gun the very day that you
#shoot or you may trash the barrel.

Oops!  At least two brands of commercial .303 ammo are produced
within the specifications for the Enfields {why else would they
be produced?} - Hansen, Winchester.  Also, there are military
suplus ammos that are non-corrosive; they do tend to sell quickly
because cheap, non-corrosive ammo if boxer primed is very popular.

#
#I like mine.  It's accurate and dependable.  To me, the main drawbacks
#are that it takes corrosive-primer ammo and that it can be a pain to
#load, even from stripper clips.  Forget about slapping in a new magazine.

Oops, again!  My interchangeable 10 round magazines aren't IPSC
speedy but they can be changed in < 5 seconds.
From: rr@dymaxion.ns.ca (Rod Regier)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: re: Armor Piercing Pistol
Date: 31 Dec 92 01:25:48 GMT

Armor piercing pistol ammo is also illegal in Canada.

This is a relatively new regulation, last half of 1992.
--
Rod Regier, Software Development                     bus: (902)422-1973
Dymaxion Research Ltd.,                              fax: (902)421-1267
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada B3J 1R2            Internet: rr@dymaxion.ns.ca
From: mpz@well.sf.ca.us (Marc Condon)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Smith & Wesson 627
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:07:42 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

#In article <9212210340.AA09567@unix.cie.rpi.edu> vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:
##While leafing through the Owner's Manual for the little 631 J-frame that we
##have (what can I say, I was bored), I noticed that they listed a Model 627,
##which is the stainless steel twin sister of the N-framed .357 M27.  Does
#
#  I saw it listed in a manual dated 2/92.  However it isn't in their
#1992 catalog (which doesn't list the Model 28 either) and I can't find
#it in the Blue Book (13th ed) under either current or past models.
#
##anyone out there on the net know of a source for this obviously discontinued
##Smith & Wesson?  How common where they (I've never seen one, nor even heard
#
#  Could it be that they haven't been produced yet?
#
##of it until just now, which I find odd, since I'm a revolver fan)?  ...
#
#--henry schaffer

Hi,

This gun was a special edition gun for the year 1989.  Only 3000 were
made. I have one and  I love it.  It's a stainless N-Frame 357.  It has an
unfluted barrel and a 5 1/2 inch fully lugged barrel.  The trigger pull
is like that of the 686 but nicer.  It groups very well.  It's my
guess that the 686 would always sell over the 627 and that's why
they are not in regular production.

It was a cover gun on Handgun Quarterly that year.  I ran out and
bought one the week I got the magazine.  It's very similar to the 
625 (45 ACP revolver) but rarer.

I have only seen one other anywhere. It was for sale at a price a 
couple of hundred dollars less than what I paid for it. (Bills Guns,
Austin, Tx, at Research and Duval. $375)

Smith and Wesson always has "special production" revolvers out 
there.  Gun dealers tell me that I couldn't sell my gun for any more for 
than I could for a Model 27, however my gun would sell faster.
If you go to enough ranges and matches you will always run into
Smith owners with unusual guns who will say, "Check out the trigger
pull on this gun."  The last time someone did this to me, the 
person had a blued N-Frame 357 that wasn't a Model 27.  He said
it had jewelled (carborumdum? like old watches, not the polish job) bearings.
The trigger pull was extremely light.  I didn't like it because
I couldn't sense when the hammer was ready to drop, but he assured
me that it was perceivable.

Right now I'm tapering off my use of this gun because if I had
to repair the cylinder I would have to replace stainless parts
with the blued (and fluted) parts from a 27.  And that strange
length of barrel would have to be replaced with either a 4 inch
of 6 inch barrel from a 686.

Have fun shooting those revolvers (or any other guns) safely,

Marc
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Rossi vs. Taurus
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:40:19 GMT


How does the Rossi M971 .357 Magnum compare to the Taurus M66 or M669
.357?  Are they comparable in quality and reliability?


Rob
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Cheap case cleaner?
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:06:16 GMT
Organization: russ at home in Albuquerque New Mexico

In article <BzMps7.GJA@SSD.intel.com> hays@SSD.intel.com (Kirk Hays) writes:
#"Carburator cleaner" will dissolve/destroy/remove any carbon-based compound, in
#my experience, i.e., I've never found anything organic it won't remove.  It won't
#harm brass, but I seem to recall some brands will eat aluminum.

I'd be surprised that any carburetor cleaner would attack aluminum -
seeing as how most carbs in the last 20 years have been made of the
stuff.  It will, however, regularly attack gaskets and the like.

#Nasty, *nasty* stuff - keep it off the linoleum, and out of the watershed.
#
#I seem to recall John DeArmond uses it to clean guns...

It does work well at cleaning the gas system of an auto-loader.  If
proper care is used in keeping it off the finish I don't see a problem
in using it as a bore cleaner for bores really fouled with carbon.  I
wouldn't expect it to do too much on copper or lead fouling though.

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food
From: emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silver Soldering
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:17:56 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Dec22.182959.18983@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
#In article <1992Dec22.035540.5903@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
##
##  Brownells has one high silver content solder "Silvaloy 355 Silver
##Solder" which is "56% silver; Cadmium-Free" and melts at 1145 F, flows
##at 1205 F.  
#
#	Question is, can you heat a barrel to that temp. without wrecking it?
#	I am highly skeptical that this can be done.  It will certainly
#	draw the temper out of the steel, which will leave it 1/2 hard at
#	the very best, abd probably less so.  Not only that, but heating a 
#	barrel to that temp., especially at one end only, is virtually
#	guaranteed to distort the barrel over its length.  Hard soldering
#	seems to be right out, as far as I can see.  Anyone know anything
#	to the contrary?

In general, barrels are not high carbon steel. Therefore they are not
quench hardened like knives and springs. So concern about drawing the 
temper of a barrel is not warranted. The alloys are simply naturally 
hard enough, especially the stainless alloys. Worrying about warping 
the barrel is a concern. Use of a clay "heat dam" near the muzzle would 
be advised for front sight installations. It's also a good idea to let 
the work air cool slowly to prevent "setting" any strains that may 
develop.

Gary
From: pusv1305@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Self Protect Handgun vs. Shotgun.
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:59:35 GMT
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

I am trying to decide on an appropreate personal protection pistol and or
shotgun?  I have looked at ballistics and energy on impack for different
ranges.  I figure a maximum range of 30 yards, for this porpose.  I also live
in a neighborhood where homes are close together, and thin walled.  For this
reason I dont want something that will go through my house and the neighbors,
ect.  I do however want one shot stopping!  A possible might be the .22 Magnum,
the ballistics i've seen rate it up there with a .38, but I havent seen many on
the market.  I am not in a situation to get up if the first shot misses and
beat the perp. over the head.  I'm open to suggestions.
From: toby@stein.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: inside turning brass
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:47:33 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <Bzo3IK.K22@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini) writes:
#tb#I bet it would be cheaper to find some good brass in the
#tb#big 6mm of your choice and have your rifle rechambered for
#tb#it than bore out existing cases and re-form them to 6/284.
#
#	Unfortunatly, 6/284 is the bigist case that will work
#	on a standard .470 case head size. I guess I could
#	cut the belt off, and cut the head on magnum cases to
#	.470, etc. . . ;(   [at this point it's not even funny]

I don't think the .284 case holds any more than a .25-06, which
has the .473 head size.  Kenny Jarrett makes a blown-out 6mm
Catbird based on the .270 case.  True, it won't run through
a short action, but neither will a 6/284 with the bullets
seated outside the boiler room.  Obviously, rechambering
is an expensive and maybe not desirable operation (given
that the barrel life is probably less than 1000 rounds anyway).

#	Weight variation on the stuff I have is +-~15 grains, 
#	and the distrobution is very non-gaussian. ...
#	I think I just have an exceptionally bad lot of brass.

15 grains!  Run, do not walk to the nearest body of water and
give this brass a flotation test!  If it floats, keep it :)

Toby Bradshaw
Department of Biochemistry and College of Forest Resources
University of Washington, Seattle
toby@u.washington.edu

"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of
a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed." Does this statement make you want to register books, 
or ban some of them, or prevent them from being read in public?
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Case Capacity of Mag. vs. Spl.
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:02:00 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Dec23.173708.22186@cbnews.cb.att.com>, by webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods):
# In article <1992Dec23.024048.9044@ncsu.edu> hes@ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
# #
# #  Therefore I don't see any difference resulting from the
# #different case lengths, and it would appear that any load
# #safe in the Spl. should be equally safe in the Mag.  Am I
# #missing something?
# #
# #--henry schaffer
# #
# 
# (stuff deleted)
# The one caveat re: case
# capacity is that you shouldn't use too small quantities of slow
# powders(handgun H110/296) in large cases because the powder can
# explode rather than burn quickly.  Otherwise case capacity and OAL
# considerations if within spec. can be discounted for load development.
# 

Is that _slow_ powders, or _ball_ powders?  I had an interesting
experience with Accurate Arms powder (sorry, I don't remember which one)
in .357 mag cases with a 158 gr. LSWC and CCI primers.  I was loading with
a Lee loader and the next hole down went _below_ their recommended minimum
charge.  I knew about the Winchester warning about their ball powders, but
didn't see one in the AA book (maybe I missed it?) and thought it would be
ok.   The chronographed velocity jumped from <1100 fps (on the ones just
above AA's minimum) to 1500+ on those puppies!  Fortunately, I was using a
Contender and only had a few of them loaded ;-{).  I have no idea what the
pressure was, but I'll never load a ball powder under what the manufacturer
recommends again.  

I haven't encountered this phenomenon with flattened ball, flake or
extruded powders. (WW231 being a flattened ball and Bullseye a flake powder)
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Norinco M14/Mini14/SKS
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:45:46 GMT
Organization: who knows

bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes...
#towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith) writes:
## When the "genuine US Mil spec" clone kits appeared on the market myself and 
##another good friend who is also a match armourer/gunsmith each bought a kit 
##just to see if the fantastically low price was worth it. To make a long story 
##short it wasn't. The worst part was trying to get the barrel to headspace. 
##4 different US made aftermarket receivers were tried and headspace was unsafe 
##in all of them. 
# 
#I'm not sure if it's the same, but an outfit in IL was selling GI
#parts kits for the M14 (minus receiver).  I picked one up about this
#time last year, and got a Springfield receiver to go with it
#midsummer.  The action went together just fine, headspaced well and it
#fires quite well.

I think that these kits were made up of parts from M14s surplused by Israel.
From: lion@netcom.com (carl loeber)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beretta 92F Series
Date: 26 Dec 92 00:17:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I have a 92 and thinks its fine.  Can't remember for sure if I've had a jam.
I'm very experienced but think it is quite accurate.  last time I put
15 shots within 'bout six inch on bull at thirty feet hand held.
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why no plastic cased .38 special?
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:55:37 GMT
Organization: Wayne State University

In article 2573@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au, ghm@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
#ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
#
##While staring at soem ACTIV brand 12 guage shells and reading my
##newest aquisitions (Cartridges of the World) I got to wondering...
#
##Why are there no {rifle,pistol, revolver} rounds loaded in plastic
##cases?  Sure, we have the Aluminum Blazers, but why not plastic? ....
#
#Anyone (other than me:-) recall the Dardick and its "trounds"?
#These came in two calibres (.22 and .38), with the .38 being
#ballistically equivalent to a .38 Special.  The tround was
#a 3-sided plastic case  -  in cross-section it would have looked
#like a triangle constructed with 3 arcs of a circle.
#
#Geoff Miller  (g-miller@adfa.oz.au)
#Computer Centre, Australian Defence Force Academy
#

The *was* a plastic .38SPL round marketed briefly about 5 years ago. I don't
recall the name, but they were giving out free samples for a while. Wish I'd kept 
a box intact. The big selling point was you could reload with only a very simple
reloading tool you held in one hand. There were special cast bullets that sort of snapped into the case. I think the tool was supposed to retail for around $5. 

It did catch on. Reloaders want more flexibility, and the merely cheap just bought
reloads made by someone else. As to why we have aluminum disposable cases but not
plastic, I think the aluminum is cheaper.

             --mike
From: bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .380 Bersa Quality
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:02:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, emory!wa4mei!chrise@gatech.edu (Chris England) says:

	I tried one out at the range.  I liked it quite a bit.  It
felt lighter than the Walther PPK/S, and seemed well made, with a
dull nickel plate finish and wood grips.  Unlike the Walther, with
their weird trigger gaurd removal takedown, this gun took down with
a frame side lever like a SIG or Astra .45 or 9mm.  It didn't kick 
too bad, about like a 9mm in a normal sized gun.

#Also, if anyone has any info on where/from whom I can purchase after-
#market grips, etc. (for the above) it would be greatly appreciated.
	Eagle Imports, 908-531-8375.
#Let's also open a discussion about the relative power of .380's
#I've punched paper with mine, but hav'nt put it to any ballistics
#tests yet.  Any ballistics experiences, or advice on retail ammo
#(grain, etc.) would also be greatly appreciated.

	~95 gr at ~850-900 fps.  ~180 ft-lbs.   Better than .22 or .32,
but wimpier than anything else (except for that one cursed caliber
which deserves no mention: .25 acp).
	%^)
Jim
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Case Capacity of Mag. vs. Spl.
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:59:50 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Dec23.024048.9044@ncsu.edu> hes@ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
#
#  A couple of postings have pointed out that the .44 Mag.
#case has more capacity than does the .44 Spl case.  While
#this is true, it might not be true when the entire situation
#is considered.  This also applies to the .357 Mag vs .38 Spl
#cases.
#
#  Here are some specs (taken from the Lyman 47th ed Manual)
#
#Caliber    Case Length    Max. OAL (lengths in inches)
#.44 Mag     1.285          1.610
#.44 Spl     1.16           1.615
#
#.357Mag     1.290          1.590
#.38 Spl     1.155          1.55
#
#Note that for each pair there is a substantial difference in
#case length, but basically no difference in max. overall length.
#If the two cartridges are loaded, with the same bullet, to the
#same overall length - then the case volume *below the bullet*
#will be the same.  I claim that it is this below the bullet volume
#which is relevant to internal ballistics, pressures, etc.  The
#difference between the two cases will be the depth (relative to the
#case mouth) to which the bullet will be seated (it will be deeper
#in the Mag. case.)
#
#  If the bullets are seated so that the resulting overall lengths
#of the two rounds are different, then there will be different
#below the bullet volumes in the two.  But loading to the same
#overall length eliminates this difference.  I find it strange that
#the Speer #11 manual doesn't give OAL's.
#
#  Therefore I don't see any difference resulting from the
#different case lengths, and it would appear that any load
#safe in the Spl. should be equally safe in the Mag.  Am I
#missing something?
#
#--henry schaffer
#

Most bullets come with crimp grooves in only one location. The usual procedure
is to crimp the case mouth in the crimp groove. Shorter cases will result in
shorter OAL's and reduced internal capacity. For those bullets with multiple
crimp grooves what you say is true. For example, Lyman's 358156 has two crimp
grooves allowing its use in .38's and .357's while maintaining essentially
the same OAL. If I remember correctly, the OAL's are not identical so powder
charges are not identical. And remember that the crimp plays a non-trivial
role in obtaining proper ignition and as such cannot be eliminated.


geoff kotzar
From: rielly_s@apollo.hp.com (Stephen M. Rielly)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: LAWS Rocket sub-cal kits
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:06:10 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

I have been quoted a price of $300 for a LAW Rocket 
sub-caliber kit. It consists of the launcher and one 
37mm rocket to fire out of it. I saw them last year
at gun shows for $50 for the launcher and $40 for 
the sub-caliber rockets. Does anyone have any
experience with these things? Do they work?
Is it worth it? Thanks for any info.

-Steve
From: rmorrow@afit.af.mil (Robert K Morrow)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: airgun lubricant
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:17:41 GMT
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology

In article <1992Dec22.051147.13545@nuscc.nus.sg> elekokws@nusunix1.nus.sg (Kok Wai Sung) writes:
#
#A RWS catalog should be helpful in locating a suitable lubricant
#for airgun. Although I don't remember the seal needing any.
#In fact, if I remember it right, one is not suppose to oil the 
#seal.
#An airgun needs very little lubricant in normal usage, just one 
#or two drops of oil on the main spring should be sufficient.
#
#By the way, don't use any penetrating oil ( like CLP ) on a 
#airgun, if they get to the seal, you will have to replace the
#seal.
#
Airgun lube is a special "anti-dieseling" oil that won't ignite under
the high cylinder pressures when a spring piston airgun is fired.
You're asking for trouble if you use any other type of oil.
World Class Airguns (317-897-5548), for example, could provide more info.

					Bob Morrow
From: rielly_s@apollo.hp.com (Stephen M. Rielly)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Question on Gun shows
Date: 21 Dec 92 23:59:59 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

The best place I have found to find gun show announcements
is in Shotgun News. You will have to read it often enough 
as the lead time is about one month. I found a great show
in Manchester N.H through SGN and it was great, about 
250+ tables, (not great prices though).

-Steve
From: mpz@well.sf.ca.us (Marc Condon)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Some Gold Cup Questions
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:05:19 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

Hi!

I bought a Colt Gold Cup 80 Series and it has this hokey trigger
screw that fouls up every 50 or so shots. The screw is in the body
of the trigger.  The screw pulls out forward and the trigger is 
rendered useless. Currently the remedy is to insert a paper clip 
in to the screw and screw it in.

Other than that, the trigger pull is excellent, the gun puts a hole 
in a hole in a hole ...  It eats lead without special throating.
There are no cycling problems.  It's near perfect!  I'll put it up 
against any wonder 9 in a second.

My questions are:
(1)  What is this s*&t?!  Did I make a mistake in buying the 
     lastest and safest 1911 from Colt?
and
(2)  Has anyone else had this problem?  Will blue Loc-Tite fix
     the problem with reasonably assured reliablity?

Wishing you safe gun sporting,

Marc
From: hruo@ncrclm.clemsonsc.NCR.COM (Hiro Ruo)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Appreciate some info
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:59:59 GMT
Organization: NCR E&M CLEMSON Liberty, SC


the SIG pricing might be regionally affected.... because around here, the
basic blued gun costs around $600.  K-Kote addes anywhere between $50 to $100.
and the SIGLITE adds around $100.  these are brand new guns from dealers.
From: PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU (BILL PATE, ADMIN. SERVICES, PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Soldering and Barrel Hardness
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:47:41 GMT

#>	draw the temper out of the steel, which will leave it 1/2 hard at
#>	the very best, abd probably less so.  Not only that, but heating a 
#>	barrel to that temp., especially at one end only, is virtually
#>	guaranteed to distort the barrel over its length.

I was not aware that barrels were tempered or even very hard. If they were,
I think they would crack under the pressure surge of firing. Barrels bend very
readily, which further leads me to believe they are not hardened and
tempered like tools. A file will skate across a hard tool without cutting,
but a barrel can be filed quite easily.

I think the heat distortion would be a problem, however. Just my $.02.
Xref: sparky rec.guns:18661 misc.legal:21702
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Forest for the trees (Carjacking, was Re: Gun blast noise in a car?)
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:00:03 GMT
Followup-To: misc.legal
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

[MODERATOR:  I am posting this here in rec.guns, but cross posting
to where I would like all followup to go, since it strays from our
technical mission here in rec.guns.  Thanks, folks. ]

All this talk about carjakcking and gun usage in the car are
very imformative. I have a related question. What do you do when
you really used your gun and shot the perp? Please discuss it on
various scenario; i.e, in the city, in the country, up in the mountains.
What do yo do when the perp is wounded but not dead (yet?)?

Thanks.

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | IEEE Member, NRA Member, HAM Operator
 Communication Services Research  | U S WEST Life Safety Team
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Defend your life in STEREO - Beretta & SIG 
 E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions