From: stxtnt@rs733.GSFC.NASA.Gov (Nigel Tzeng)
Subject: Re: SRUNII: Laser sights and SG links
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md, USA
	<wilder.721559648@mik.uky.edu> <Bxo230.5E5@ulowell.ulowell.edu>
	<kzin.721694024@cc.gatech.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:03:27 GMT

In article <kzin.721694024@cc.gatech.edu> kzin@terminus.gatech.edu (John Rudd) writes:

[much deleted]

>Yes.. but your own statements contradict your optimism of what chance a
>shooter has in combat.  According to FBI statistics (which were used in
>to help compile the combat system for Cyberpunk, and mostly preserved for
>Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0.), most combats take place in very close quarters (less
>than 20 meters), with little to no visibility of target, little to no time
>to aim, and hits are rare.  This is true in urban, sub-urban and rural/
>wilderness situations.  Saying that a novice marksman has a 50% chance
>to hit a moving target in combat, and then reciting the bullet/kill ratio
>for vietnam just goes to show that you aren't paying attention to your
>own information.

I don't buy that CP2020/FBI statistics line for shadow runners.  They
may apply for non-combat characters and for most corp cops and police
officers (for which Firearms 2 may be generous) but samurai are in a
different league.  Few of the samurai should rate any less than elite
troops of the SEAL, Green Beret caliber.

If I recall correctly the FBI statistics deal with criminals and
police officers for the most part...and neither one are experienced or
trained to shoot at each other.  Most police officers in even high
crime areas never draw their firearm in anger.  The exceptions are
vice and other units that end up in "harm's way".  Fact is that most
officers that fire and kill perps tend to retire within a few years.

This is markedly different from even the beginning samuari since they
are considered to have been around the block a few times.  Nobody will
sink several hundred thousand nuyen into cyber enhancements for a
soldier without getting their money's worth in service.  In the SR
world I suspect this means getting shot at a few times...and shooting
back.  Remeber that this cost in cyberware in on top of the normally
high cost of training an individual to that caliber of expertise.

This also differs from the experience of the average trooper in the
armed forces.  Post WWII and Korea studies showed that few troops even
fired their weapon much less aimed at anyone.  Fact is most of the
killing is done by very few of the individuals involved in combat.

Elite troops or troops with more responsibility (like BAR gunners)
tended to shoot more and perform better than other troops.

>(and by little to no time to aim, I mean that LITTERALLY.  You get to
>poke your gun around a corner and hope its close to the target..or if
>you're excessivly brave/stupid/desperate, you poke your head out to be
>sure it's in the right general area..if you stick your head out long
>enough to make anything a reasonable person would call "aiming", you're
>mostly likely to get it shot off)

Well...if by your standards it takes 10,000 rounds to hit anything
then sticking your head out to aim is as safe as anything else.  The
likelyhood that you will hit the perp (or guard) with aimed fire
before his or her random spray and pray hits you is rather good I
would think.

Some people may disagree with my definition of samurai because it
makes them too elite but my opinion is that while "elite" they aren't
legendary yet.  They are like a greenhorn SEAL or 2nd Para who may be
shit hot compared to everyone else but are rather outclassed by the
veterans that have been around for a while.  They made it to the big
leagues and now it starts getting tough eh? ;-)

>John Rudd  --  kzin@cc.gatech.edu         ex- kzin@ucscb.ucsc.edu

Nigel

BTW: For a frame of reference my corp cops are generally Firearms 2,
light sec armor, helmet w/ radio, IR, flare comp, pistol or SMG (rare)
(w/laser sight), radio, biomonitor and stun baton.  Standard corp
response teams that see little action are Firearms 4, heavy sec armor,
assult rifle, boosted 2, dermal 1, smartlink, helmet w/ secure radio,
IR, flare comp, lowlight and HUD.  Elite or verteran response teams
get better cyberware and better skills up to and beyond what normal
archtypes get.  Plus magic support and other nasty stuff.

Standard army gets firearms 4, heavy sec armor, assault rifle,
smartlink, booted 2, dermal 1 etc (gee...I guess that's where all the
corp response jokers came from eh?).  Elite troops get Wired 2, cyber
eyes, chipjack, smartgun, and so forth with skills like Atletics 6,
Firearms 6, Stealth 6, Unarmed or Armed 6, and so forth plus skill 6
in their MOS. 

Gang members never appear with cyber except the occasional leader who
has used ill-gotten gains to cyber up.  IMHO gang types should never
be a real threat to samurai...except with a sniper rifle heh...
--
Nigel Tzeng
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