HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Subject: Re: IMC/IFR: exactly why so difficult?
Reply-To: reece@eco.twg.com
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 17:09:23 GMT


In article <1k1h5dINNqjr@transfer.stratus.com>, spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker) writes:

[...most of an excellent story deleted...]

|>Gee, you say, he sure doesn't have a lot of confidence in his piloting
|>abilities.  Wrong.  I don't consider myself to be a stupid or uncoordinated
|>person.  But, I haven't gone through instrument training beyond basic 
|>hood work with minimal nav and comm thrown in.  In fact, hood work always 
|>came easy to me.  If you're not rated, don't try it (by yourself, anyway).  
|>So, a couple of rules for VFR pilots to live (and keep living) by:
|>
|>	1.  Don't fly into IMC
|>	2.  Don't fly into IMC
|>	3.  If 1 and 2 fail, see #1
|>	4.  If 1, 2, and 3 fail, get the hell out of the clouds *now*!
|>	5.  If 4 fails, please crash in a remote area far from TV cameras
|>	    so GA won't get another black eye.

My first IMC experience pretty much parallels Steve's, except that my
right-seater was a CFII, and I *wasn't* trimmed when I entered the clouds.
I was less than a minute from takeoff, climbing, in a 30 degree left bank,
and trying to ID an NDB. I *know* I would have rolled over and dug a sizable
crater if I hadn't had someone in the right seat who knew what he was doing.
And yes, I too thought I'd be able to handle it on my own...right up to the
point where my instructor started to shout about the 60 degree bank angle.
I remind myself of that experience every time I see the puffy white stuff
approaching the windshield.

|>Sorry for the long note.

Well worth it, IMHO.

--
Reece R. Pollack
PP-ASEL-IA -- Octopus Flying Club (based GAI)
From: maverick@camelot.bradley.edu (Darin Petersen)
Subject: stalls
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: rec
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:43:55 GMT

Speaking of spins and stalls.....

I've often heard of secondary stalls but I'm not familiar with them.
I remember someone saying that one occurs if you keep the nose high after a
stall and let the plane stall again.  I did this with my instructor and
nothing special happened.  The nose just 'bobbed' up and down like a paper
airplane would when you bend the 'elevators' up too much. (BTW, I was in a
C152) 

SO what are they and what's the danger.......

--
            __|__          Darin Petersen - PP-ASEL
     ________(*)________  Maverick@buhub.bradley.edu
            o/ \o
From: robie@umbc.edu (Mr. William Robie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Pancho Barnes
Date: 22 Jan 1993 22:35:46 -0500
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc4.umbc.edu

I'm not certain that there has been a book written about "Pancho" Barnes,
specifically, but she is mentioned in numerous books about/by women who
participated in the "Powder Puff" air races of the '30s.  

A couple which might be of interest are "Just Plane Crazy" - the story of
Bobbi Trout (a truly wonderful woman and pilot), and "Amelia, My Courageous
Sister" - by Muriel Earhart (no "d" in the name) Morrisey.  Then, of course, 
there is a very nice (but FAR too short) series of "Women In Aviation" books
that the Smithsonian Press put out (a couple of them were by Claudia Oakes,
but I can't recall who wrote the other(s)).  Yet another good book is the life
story of "Jackie" Cochran . . . I think it just called "Jackie."

If anyone has trouble locating these, and needs more thorough references, send
me an e-mail message ... I'll try to dig them up.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: bryan@intellistor.com (John Bryan)
Subject: Re: VFR pilot flying in clouds (was Re: All)
Organization: Intellistor, Inc.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 20:08:37 GMT

I'll just add my minimal stats after finally getting a chance to look
at my logbook.  I had 3.2 hours of simulated instrument time during my
private training (1979-1980), and we did three spins to the left and
three to the right during one *very* sweaty flight (we climed to 8000'
MSL for each one -- with the ground at about 750' -- which was the
highest I'd ever flown at that time).  Normally we flew with two
students plus the instructor in the plane, but it was one student only
for spin training.  I asked why and was told this would only kill one
student if something went wrong.  Later I found out that the Beech
Sport (with the spin kit added) was certified for spins only in the
utility category (I think it is), and max gross in utility category
wasn't sufficient for three bodies.

I, too, figured I could handle myself in the clouds -- until the first
couple of hours of *real* instrument training.  Now I know better.
And like another poster, I have to really pay attention the first
couple of minutes in the clouds while the rust falls off my scan and I
get settled into flying by the instruments.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
John T. Bryan       | e-mail: bryan@intellistor.com
Intellistor         | UUCP:   ...!csn!arrayb!bryan
Longmont, CO        | USPS:   2402 Clover Basin Drive, 80503
(303) 682-6527      | PP-ASEL/IA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: rmt@pioneer.net.com (Richard Tweedie)
Subject: Re: Flying Movies (was Re: Book on Pancho Barnes)
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:48:52 GMT

In article <30238@oasys.dt.navy.mil> wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer) writes:
***deleted***>
>One movie which comes to mind is "Flight Of The Phoenix". It was produced
>in the early 1960s, and has a dark side to it, in that stuntman and
>test pilot Frank Tallman(?) died while flying a plane filmed in the
>movie.
>
>If the truth be known, I enjoyed the book much more than the movie.
>But the plot tweaks the imagination just enough to be compelling. It
>involves the crash of a twin-engined, twin-boom, cargo plane in a desert.
>The survivors of the crash separate one engine, boom, and tail section
>from the wreckage, attach the wings, and fly away from the crash site.
>Pretty good stuff for not having machine shop facilities available.
>
>Bill Palmer

The stunt pilot killed was actually Paul Mantz (Frank Tallmans partner
in TallMantz Aviation).  Frank was killed several years later in an
unexplained accident--IFR into a mountain near L.A. while flying a
lowly Apache.  The plane they created for Phoenix was very realistic,
I believe it did in fact use mostly C-119 components.  Slightly too
realistic--the book said they used skids for the landing gear--so
Paul was flying the monster with skids (there were actually wheels
halfway back on the skids) and the tips of the skids dug into a 
small sand hill during a low pass for the camera's.  This flipped
the monster on its back (well the front half anyway, it broke in the 
middle) killing Paul Mantz and injuring the passenger along for
the ride.

Rich Tweedie
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: bobdev@hprpcd.rose.hp.com (Bob Devereaux)
Subject: Re: Book on Pancho Barne
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:06:36 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.3 PL7]

Michael Corvin (zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com) wrote:
: I'd also be interested in good books describing her life.  (Bob Devereaux:
: which two Earhardt biographies were you reading?)
: 
(1) Doris L. Rich, _Amelia Earhart:  A Biography_ (Dell, 1991), and also
1989 as part of the Smithsonian series (??).

(2) Mary S. Lovell, _The Sound of Wings:  The Life of Amelia Earhart_
(St. Martin's Press, 1989).

Both are trade paperbacks.  The second, which I'm only a few chapters
into, is a bit breathy but still good.

A general thanks to everyone who's responded re Pancho Barnes.
--
Robert Devereaux
bobdev@hprpcd.rose.hp.com
Roseville, CA
(916) 785-5487
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: ggr@watson.ibm.com (Greg Rose)
Subject: Re: Radio procedures at controlled airports
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:22:55 GMT
Reply-To: ggr@acci.com.au
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: Australian Computing and Communications Institute, temp IBM

L697187@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM wrote:
[unfortunately, I can't find the original article, but s/he was
talking about a friend's instructor who appeared to give bad advice
about radio procedures. There has been plenty about this. However, the
first point in the posting was about the instructor saying things like
"look at those turkeys", and pointing, on short final. This is what I
refer to.]

One of the things that pilots must be taught and tested on is their
ability to handle distractions. Since the instructor in question seemed
to be a bit gung-ho, I imagine this behaviour was intentional.
Sometimes the instructor will continue to do this sort of thing until
he is ABSOLUTELY SURE that you are in fact consciously handling it, and
not just approaching overloading or whatever. One way to demonstrate
this is to simply to respond "Stand By", "Please stop interrupting", or
the like. An old airline pro told me to use "Sterile Cockpit", but that
assumes that the instructor is also an airline pro... Needless to say,
this technique should also be applied to non-pilot passengers, or have
an intercom with an isolation switch.

On the examination flight for my private, the examiner kept pointing
at little towns and saying things like "Is that Dural?" while I was
navigating down a very narrow corridor with Control Zones each side.
It seemed to bother her when I kept replying with things like "No,
that's Hornsby", without even looking where she was pointing (I was
expecting this, you see, and was not above playing games myself). As soon
as she found one I couldn't identify, I said "Hold on, I'm busy from
now on", and that was it.

-- 
Greg Rose, Australian Computing and Communications Institute
Reply only to ggr@acci.com.au, IBM is only temporary.
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Charts in-flight (was: pilotage: any tricks/tips?)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 20:25:31 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: wiley.ts.stratus.com

In article <1jpkk2INNgnk@sol.usc.edu>, barney@sol.usc.edu (Barney Lum) writes:

> As for marking my charts, I use a pink highligter to mark "enroute"
> courses on a sectional.  I'll re-use a lot of those paths so the chart 
> doesn't get *too* messy.   

This works during the day, but those highlighted lines will completely
disappear in the red cockpit light at night.  (at least it's true of yellow,
should be the same for pink).
-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
From: Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Flying Movies (was Re: Book on Pancho Barnes)
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:32:07 GMT
 <C1H2x8.K93@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  <30238@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <30238@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer) writes:

> One movie which comes to mind is "Flight Of The Phoenix". It was produced
> in the early 1960s, and has a dark side to it, in that stuntman and
> test pilot Frank Tallman(?) died while flying a plane filmed in the
> movie.

It wasn't Frank Tallman who died flying that contraption, it was his
partner Paul Mantz.  Tallman died years later bringing in a biplane for
the movie "The Great Waldo Pepper".

Corky Scott
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips?
Date: 26 Jan 93 04:59:07 GMT
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA

> I had a checkout at an Atlanta airport yesterday (LZU, Lawrenceville).
> ... I was convinced that I was flying west, and asked
> [the instructor] whether he wanted a right turn or a left!

Simple Pilot Hint #29:

    On the east coast, the ocean is generally east.

    On the west coast, the ocean is generally west.

You'd be surprised how handy this hint can be.  :-)

							Geoff
From: jmmatthe@apgea.army.mil (Jeffrey M. Matthews <jmmatthe>)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: the usual meandering thread biz
Date: 28 Jan 93 14:23:20 GMT
Organization: ATE1 S7=255 S11=55 V1 X1 S0=0

In article <1993Jan26.182924.17831@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> hutton@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Edward.Hutton) writes:
>
>	Funny, I have the same thoughts on learning aerobatics.
>I know many pilots don't know how to fly aerobatics, but I still
>have this feeling that it will make me a MUCH better pilot. I
>would like to think that if I roll inverted (wake encounter
>maybe?) my FIRST instinctive response would be to roll up right
>and not split S. I just have this gut level feeling that acro
>training would do me a world of good (its on the to do list :-) ).
>
Let's try a thought experiment.  Assume you have learned to roll upright
in a Citabria.  Your entry speed will be about 120-125 mph.  The instruc-
tor will roll the aircraft on its back, then give it to you.  By holding
the stick WELL forward, you will be able to keep the aircraft from gain-
ing speed as you roll it back, or continue the oringinal roll--your choice.

Now we'll do it again.  First, you'll loosen your seat belt to a cross
country tension (There ain't no such thing as having the belt too tight
for acrobatics).  I'll roll the airplane on its back, but I'll do it at
about 95 mph.  (Hint:  the inverted stall speed of a flatwing Citabria is
about 90.)  I'll give it to you, but as I do, I'll close the throttle.
Then, while you're deciding which way to roll (Hint:  you better elect to
continue the roll.  If that is to the right, it'll be counter to the bias
of 90% of the pilots I've flown with.) I'm going to hit you on the head
with a Thermos because you only stashed it out of the way but forgot to
tie it down.  If you can handle that, I'll grab everything in sight-- the
stick, your head, anything I can get my hands on, and scream.

How'd we do.  Recover with 50 feet altitude loss?  100?  Keep it below
redline?  Whatever it was, add a few hundred feet of margin because you
knew it was coming, and that's your minimum altitude for wake turbulence
encounters.

Now, I am strongly favor of acrobatic training, as well as spins, for all
pilots.  Not so they can recover from a spin on final or a close encounter
with a loaded 747, but to expand the pilot's envelope.  Then when something
unexpected or undesired happens, the pilot is not so close to the limit of
his (or her) experience, and has the luxury of being able to attempt to
solve the problem without fighting on the edge of the cliff.

And because it's a heck of a lot of fun.

J. Matthews
If you construe this post as advice, you will surely die.  If you don't,
I will cheerfully refund what you paid for it.  That and other disclaimers
apply.
From: scott@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Scott Turner)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 18:23:54 GMT
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting

In rec.aviation.piloting, hdnea@usho88.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal) writes:

>   Any suggestions for helping me to develop pilotage skills
>   would be highly appreciated.

Others have made some excellent suggestions to help you develop your
pilotage skills.  I'd like to clarify one that I've seen implied in a
few responses but not explicitly stated, and then add another.

First, as you're learning to develop the skill, practice following your
course *from the very start of your flight* moving from known to unknown
territory.  Other respondents have discussed how to accomplish verifying
your checkpoints, keeping them distinctive and close together and such,
but I think it's important to specifically mention that you need to get
oriented early and then stay oriented.  

As your skill increases, staying oriented will gradually become easier
and checkpoints will move further apart until you're able to even use
informal checkpoints as described by Matt.

One thing I've not seen anyone mention, however, is spending ground time
literally pouring over sectionals.  As you do so, again starting from
familiar territory, try to visualize what the map is representing and
build in your mind a model of what that terrain is going to look like
from the air.  Compare what you see on the chart to areas you know, then
extrapolate to lesser known areas.  Finally, go up and verify and modify
this model as necessary.

I've had a life long fascination with maps that I'm convinced has served
me well in developing my pilotage abilities.  It does take practice, but
it's fun practice.  Give it a try!


Scott Turner  scott@hpisla.LVLD.HP.COM
HP VXI Systems Division
Turbo Arrow N2134N  "Baby"

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys)
Subject: Duct tape on the oil cooler
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 12:56:25 GMT

In article <1jpi3bINNp74@transfer.stratus.com> lee@deneb.sw.stratus.com (Lee Cooprider) writes:
>
>Also people put duct tape over 1/2 of the oil cooler (the small radiator on
>the front of an O-470, for example).   The oil cooler sits in the cowl opening
>on my Skylane, so it might have looked like the air intake was being blocked
>(which it was, slightly).  Just talked to a mechanic who used to do this on
>planes in Colorado during the winter.

I used to do this on my Skylane until a local A&P pointed out to me that
the oil cooler on an O-470 is thermostatically controlled and not a "full
flow" device, meaning that at any temperature below about 160F, the oil
doesn't get sent to the cooler anyway.  The problem with putting tape over
the oil cooler is that it blocks the cooling airflow to the base of
cylinder #5, causing the cylinder head temp to diverge (even more than
usual) from the other cylinders.

Duct tape your 182's oil cooler?  Just say no.

Dan Masys
masys@nlm.nih.gov
From: verhulst@raven.aosg.gsf.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Chart corrections. was - pilotage: any tricks/tips?
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:44:53 GMT
Organization: AOSG

>When we did our dual x-countries, we used to play the aviation version
>of "Where's Waldo" by finding drive-ins that were on the TAC along our
>route and then trying to find them along our way.  Lot's of fun!

Drive-ins are very good VFR navigation landmarks but they are rapidly
being demolished (in New England, anyway) to make room for offices, condos, 
and what have you.  Twice in the last 5 years I have written to the NOAA that
a drive in charted on the Boston terminal chart no longer existed.  Both
times I've gotten personal phone calls from them thanking me for the update.
They really want your input - the address is on the chart.

Tony V
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com (Michael Corvin)
Subject: Re: Charts in-flight (was
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:45:53 GMT

This thread reminded me how they sometimes did it in WWII:
For several of their raids, the 617 Squadron Lancasters penetrated
at very low level.  The crew navigators made their own custom 
strip charts for the routes that they were going to take.  Now, this
is a rather extensive task, but it occurs to me that a nifty addition
to flight-planning software might be the generation of "custom route
sectionals" in such a strip chart configuration.  A CD-ROM database
could easily contain several sectionals worth of information for this.
The strips would be wide enough to show alternates, etc.  A DUATs tie-in
could add NOTAMS, etc at their physical locations.

The current-generation moving-maps, especially the notebook computer-based
ones, essentially do this sort of thing (albeit without the geographic detail of
sectionals).  Getting a route hardcopy might seem regressive compared to
a moving map but it would be useful for folks who don't have the panel-mounted
or notebook gear.  One issue would be getting good color hardcopy, but
some of the color inkjet printers are getting quite reasonable.  Even
a greyscale hardcopy could be quite useful.

Of course, there probably are legalities involved in using such 'custom' maps.

Hmmm.  I think I'll stick to sectionals, whiz wheel, plotter, clock and 
eyeballs for now... :-).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Corvin 	      PP-ASEL, PP-G		zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com
just another spaced rocket scientist at    Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
===============    My views, not Martin Marietta's   ========================
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: phil@pex.eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: Charts in-flight (was: pilotage: any tricks/tips?)
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:15:20 GMT

In article <1299@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com> rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill) writes:
>Several people mentioned in this thread about marking their charts.
>I also think this is a good practice.  However, it significantly reduces
>the life and readability.

In 6 months you have to stop using the chart anyway (we ARE all using
current charts, aren't we?)  If you can afford to fly enough to mark
it up so much that it needs replacing, then you can probably afford
the $5.50 to get a replacement.  :-)

>I have alway thought that the concept of a plexiglass type chart holder
>with grease pen markings could be a good idea.

With approach plates my instructor has had me put the (Jepp) plate in
a plastic holder, then write in pencil on the plastic.

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: km11480@medtronic.COM (Keith A. Meisel)
Subject: 99`s
Reply-To: km11480@medtronic.COM
Organization: Medtronic, Inc.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:25:55 GMT


Does anyone out there know how I could reach someone
at the 99's, the organization of women pilots?  Please 
e-mail the address or phone number.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting