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Organization: Indiana University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:56:33 -0500
From:         "Stephen A. Creps" <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mormon/LDS

In article <9301252012.AA16329@roadrunner.pictel.com> Dan Harling
 <harling@ROADRUNNER.PICTEL.COM> writes:
>> After all, the name of the Mormon Church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of
>> Latter Day Saints", and I do not think that a church with Christ's name in
 the
>> title could be a cult...
>
>A group can use Christ's name in their title and still deny:
>
>    o   the Deity of Christ
>    o   his bodily resurrection
>    o   the doctrine of the Trinity
>
>or any other tenet that is essential to Christianity.  I am not sure
>which (if any) of these doctrines the Mormons reject, although the
>first seems to be a "favorite".

   I'm not aware of any Mormon problems with the second, but I would
agree somewhat with the first (or at least the _nature_ of Christ),
and especially the third.

   My comment to the first poster's message (whose name I don't have
handy) is similar to the above.  My question is, "Who do they say
Jesus Christ is?"  The Mormon definition of Christ is very different
from most Christian definitions, including the first poster's (and my)
Catholic Church.

   One problem with the Mormon definition of Christ is that he was
created by God the Father.  This is a direct contradiction to the
Creed recited by Catholics every Sunday, in which we say He was
eternally "begotten, not made."

   The Mormons also contradict the Catholic Creed in that they say
each Person of the Trinity is a separate Being, whereas we say Jesus
Christ is "one in being with the Father."  They say that Jesus' words,
"I and the Father are one" mean "one in purpose" only.

   Their definition of who God the Father is also is incompatible with
Catholic belief.  They say that God the Father was once a man, who in
turn was created (through sexual intercourse with a "Heavenly Mother")
by still another god, ad infinitum.  That would imply that God has not
always existed.  They also believe that we also can become just as God
the Father, not just perfected as He is, but gods and creators of
worlds ourselves.  But only if we join the LDS church.

   As for the Mormon belief in Jesus being Satan's older brother, I
believe they say that Satan was created in the same way as they say
Jesus was.  I don't think it's meant to imply that Satan isn't such a
bad guy, etc.  Actually I believe they say we are all Jesus' brothers
and sisters in the same way.  However, the problems with this are that
most other of us Christians believe 1) Jesus was _not_ created, but
has always existed with the Father and the Holy Spirit; 2) although
Satan was created by God, it was not through sexual intercourse; and
3) the Creed says Jesus is "the only Son of God."

   As far as the comment I saw about them "worshipping" Joseph Smith,
I would say this is probably a misunderstanding, probably similar to
the misunderstanding of the Catholic veneration of Saints.  It is my
impression, however, that they may very well talk about Joseph Smith
as much as they do Jesus, for whatever reasons.

   Finally, the Catholic Church accepts almost all other Christian
baptism, including Eastern Orthdox, Anglican, other mainstream
Protestant, and Fundamentalist.  However, the Church considers Mormon
trinitarian doctrine to be so flawed that she considers Mormon
baptism invalid.

   I'm not writing this to put down Mormonism, but merely to point out
its incompatibilities with my own (Catholic) belief, and that of most
other Christian denominations.  I will point out, however, that their
missionaries generally don't talk about all these more controversial
things until one is already pretty much in their church.

   By the way, the story in the introduction to the _Book of Mormon_
has God calling all the (other) Christian denominations at the time, I
believe, "abominations."

-       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -       -
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU