HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chris@coombs.anu.edu.au (Chris @ SSDA)
Subject: Re: Soft tips (Was: Lurker comes forward)
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 28 Sep 92 06:08:18 GMT

Hi all,
	Soft Points - we have a guy here in aus who throws 3 different darts
		combinations     dart 1      dart 2       dart 3
			points   softpoint   needlepoint  tungspoint
			barrel   18g         20g          24g
                        stems    long        medium       short
                        flights  kite        pear         square

  and has absolutely no problem with them...(mind you its a pretty wierd
thing to do - but its a fun game after all).

       Electronic Games
        At the local grand masters competition 2 years ago - here in Canberra
Australia - we had a guy demoing a Electronic Bristle board - which would only
score on dart imbedded in the board - and would play just as many games as you
would want on it - just a matter of programming the chips, was the explaination.

The board operated by having each segment of the board being separate enitites
which were impressed with carbon - the presence of a dart in a segment would
change its electrical properties and consequently be scored.

I dont know who made it, etc.  however from memory the unit cost was around
the 40K mark.

Cheers all

Chris.

-- 
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                  Chris Patterson | Ph:  +61 6 2492185
     Social Science Data Archives | AARNet: Chris@coombs.anu.edu.au
   Australian National University | "I wonder what happens if I ..."
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   Australian National University | "I wonder what happens if I ..."
From: txd@ESD.3Com.COM (Tom Dietrich)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.darts
Subject: Re: Hi all... Question...Etiquette?
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:30:32 GMT

kschnitz@encore.com (Kevin Schnitzius) writes:

>v222p9ns@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (A PFC, AND DAMNED PROUD TO BE) writes:

>> [ complaining about a player delaying ]

>>Am I just being hypercritical, or is this considered rude?

>No, this is not rude, it is part of the game.  Plus, you are in public
>bar -- there is no telling what kind of delays or diversions you can
>run into, either planned or unplanned.

I have to disagree. If this is happens more than once, I'd consider it
quite rude.

>>I was getting to the point where I was VERY annoyed at this person (who was a
>>nice guy in every other respect), and the others who have done it in the past.

>You should have said something to him, he was on your team after all.  
>However, you were getting downright angry about the delays and a good
>player will notice this and try to slow you down more.  A good game of
>darts has too many psychological factors to ignore that portion of the
>sport.

I'll agree with this, that there are a lot of psycological elements,
but disappearing just before your turn on a regular basis is still rude.

>>Am I being too sensitive about this? Thanks for any tips and pointers!

>If I can use your sensitivity to win a game then you are too sensitive.
>I have to admit that I have beaten players who are better than me by 
>delaying here and there just enough to throw them off their rhythm.

It may well backfire too. The team that I played on for a long time
was a bunch of friends who played volleyball, and partied together
also. We all had sports backgrounds of one type or another. When we
would run across someone using these sort of tactics, the effect on
the team was to collectivly get angry. This anger was channeled into
intense concentration on the matter at hand, resulting in all of us
turning up the game a couple of notches or more. In addition, we all
had a tendancy to get quite vocal. The effect on other teams was
apparent in poor performances from some of their members. On a couple
of occasions, it resulted in us being threatened by physical
conflicts. This was genetally met with open arms by a bunch of
x-football players and jocks in general. It did have us on "probation"
in the league at one point because we were a bit more vocal than some
teams thought we should be. It didn't bother us, we were consistantly
first or second place in the standings.

*********************************************************************

                                        Tom Dietrich

"I wouldn't play this silly game if it wasn't played in beer bars!"
			 Me, in about the fifth year of league play.

 e-mail: txd@molehill.NSD.3Com.COM                                       
*********************************************************************
From: tl@ray.fi (TonyK Lindstr"om)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.darts
Subject: Re: Out Charts (repost)
Keywords: n
Date: 6 Oct 92 11:15:57 GMT
Organization: Raha-Automaattiyhdistys (RAY), Espoo, Finland

In article <1992Oct2.204350.1084@odin.corp.sgi.com> hargrove@bee.corp.sgi.com (Mark Hargrove) writes:

>When you've got an out, think through the out "tree" while your
>opponent is throwing.  74 left?  T14, D16. If I miss the trip, that
>leaves 60: 20, D20 -- you get the idea.  I've found that learning 

Funny you took this for an example...

I used to shoot this way and I still do it sometimes, BUT...  My teammate
who is, sorry to say, at the moment a bigger talent that I am, goes for
the T18. Why?

He have done too many S14 _T20_:s ...

T18 leaves D10 which is for many, and especially for this guy, a very good
double. S18 leaves 56, which needs S16 to have D20 AND if you hit the T16 yo
have D4. Fact is, that if you go for the T14 and get a S14 you tend to 
aim so high that you hit the  D20 with 60 left, so you have to hit 
the D10 anyway...

Hmm... D25 leaves 24, S25 leaves 49 -> S17 (dangerous, T17 or D17), S9 (not
SO dangerous, T9 leaves D11, easy to aim at :-)


BTW Is there a book called "How to hit Double 1" :-)

Is anybody working on a FAQ?


-- 
Finnish Darts Organization - Pa"kki Darts (-)--==-  tl@ray.fi
Tony Lindstro"m - T20,T19,D25 - T20,T19,D25 - T20,T19,D25....
Newsgroups: alt.sport.darts
From: khuhner@eng.auburn.edu (Kurt E. Huhner)
Subject: Out shot PERCENTAGES
Followup-To: Out Charts questioned
Keywords: Out shots, Best bets
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 14:50:03 GMT

I have been following the thread on out shots for a couple of weeks now.  I have not replied (unitl now), but sat back and "listened".  I have been playing for almost 10 years.  I have won numerous city championships in New Orleans, State championships in Louisisna and placed high in several money tournaments.  I have studied strategies all my dart life, and after mastering cricket, I though I had it made.  After I had been playing for a couple of years, I realized, many games were won and lost due to very


 POOR 501 strategies.  I agree with rec@indetech.com (Rick Cobb) who writes about taking out 82.  It is the best PERCENTAGE to go for the bull.  The ENTIRE bull is LARGER than any ENTIRE triple.  BUT, this theory holds true for a vast many other numbers.  The key here is ONLY AFTER an indiviual learns a majority of the outs start experimenting with the bull.  Notiice my use of "best PERCENTAGE", because thats all it is.  My point is instead of having a percentage for a particular turn (3 darts), you should


 break down the percentages before and after EACH throw.  For example 126.

Before shot-126 left 3 darts
SHOOT ONLY AT 19's!!! (Why... because guess what is left AFTER that if you
                       only hit single. 107 which can be taken out in 2 darts)
If you score triple 19, that leaves 69, two darts left
BEST PERCENTAGE, single 19 bull.

If you score single 19, (probably)
BEST PERCENTAGE, triple 19 bull.

IF YOU SHOOT 20's, YOU MUST HIT A TRIPLE ON THE FIRST DART or you will NOT
have GAME SHOT UNTIL YOUR NEXT TURN, which in many cases is TOO LATE!!!

Other numbers of interest:
61, 65, 66, 70, 75, 81, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95- all use the bull to make a second shot be a single and the third be a double.  THINK ABOUT IT!!!

Higher numbers that require this strategy on first dart:
119, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 132-require that you shoot at a specific number on first throw in case you hit single, then it will leave you with a two dart out instead of setting up a two dart out NEXT TURN!!!

I strongly suggest reading the current column in Bulls Eye News from Steve Brown on Out shots.  This man is world ranked and wins $$$.  He knows what to shoot.  Unfortunatley, a lot of americans are afraid to shoot bull in there out shots, but it has been proven to win games!  You will never take out a 170 with out shooting for it or leaving it.  My point here.  If you are on 229 and you are shooting on 20's.  If your first two are singles that leaves you 189.  DONT SHHOT THE 20!  It leaves you an UNMAKABL


E 169, but if you shoot a 19, you leave a 
MAKABLE 170.  

I hope this sheds some light on the out shots.  The MAIN thing to remember is PERCENTAGES of SHOOTING at a DOUBLE (any double) which if hit wins the game.  If you dont shoot at a double you cant win...simple as that.


Kurt E. Huhner



Newsgroups: alt.sport.darts
From: kschnitz@encore.com (Kevin Schnitzius)
Subject: Re: Hi all... Question...Etiquette?
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:51:11 GMT

v222p9ns@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (A PFC, AND DAMNED PROUD TO BE) writes:

> [ complaining about a player delaying ]

>Am I just being hypercritical, or is this considered rude?

No, this is not rude, it is part of the game.  Plus, you are in public
bar -- there is no telling what kind of delays or diversions you can
run into, either planned or unplanned.

>I was getting to the point where I was VERY annoyed at this person (who was a
>nice guy in every other respect), and the others who have done it in the past.

You should have said something to him, he was on your team after all.  
However, you were getting downright angry about the delays and a good
player will notice this and try to slow you down more.  A good game of
darts has too many psychological factors to ignore that portion of the
sport.

>Am I being too sensitive about this? Thanks for any tips and pointers!

If I can use your sensitivity to win a game then you are too sensitive.
I have to admit that I have beaten players who are better than me by 
delaying here and there just enough to throw them off their rhythm.
--
mr asynchronous                                   kschnitzius@encore.com
Newsgroups: alt.sport.darts
From: chris@coombs.anu.edu.au (Chris @ SSDA)
Subject: Re: tips
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 29 Sep 92 03:36:05 GMT

GJAMES@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA (GJames) writes:

>I have been looking for a book about the mechnics of playing darts. I seem 
>to go through periods of doinf well and then I cant hit anything. 

>Anybody have any pointers for me?

This happens to me everysooften - drives both me and my team crazy.

I generally find that after a short period I come back to form and usually a
little better than before.  I have absolutely no idea what causes these lapses
perhaps just a short term loss of interest ?

Cheers all

Chris.

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                  Chris Patterson | Ph:  +61 6 2492185
     Social Science Data Archives | AARNet: Chris@coombs.anu.edu.au
   Australian National University | "I wonder what happens if I ..."
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                  Chris Patterson | Ph:  +61 6 2492185
     Social Science Data Archives | AARNet: Chris@coombs.anu.edu.au
   Australian National University | "I wonder what happens if I ..."
From: dmcpheet@ems.cdc.com
Newsgroups: alt.sport.darts
Subject: Re: Out Charts (repost)
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:56:06 GMT
Reply-To: dmcpheet@ems.cdc.com
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC

In article <1992Oct1.143314.28805@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, pfleming@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick E Fleming) writes:
|> I find this little chart handy (esspecially the second part!)
|> 
|>      - Pat
|>  (charts deleted)
|> -- 
|> - Patrick E. Fleming ---------------------------------------------------------
|> - Department of Chemistry ------------ Some things are still a mystery to me -
|> - Ohio Wesleyan University ----------- While others are much too clear! ------
|> - pfleming@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu -----------------------------------------

Thanks for the charts! Does anyone have a "Three dart out" chart?

As a person who doesn't always hit EXACTLY what he is aiming at, I'd like a
"safe" chart, one that specifies a first shot in such a way that if I miss the
double or triple specified, but land in the wedge, there is still a reasonable
chance for a two-dart out.


 Dennis R. McPheeters                        dmcpheet@ems.cdc.com >>>
 Empros Systems International     __o              (612) 553-4768 <<<
 2300 Berkshire Lane North       -\<,        fax:  (612) 553-4018 >>>
 Plymouth, MN 55441-3694         O/ O              Software Tools <<<
From: v222p9ns@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (A PFC, AND DAMNED PROUD TO BE)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.darts
Subject: Hi all... Question...Etiquette?
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:19:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


		
	Hi there! I've been lurking here for a little while, and reading a lot
of helpful posts. I just bought a set of Hammerheads (LOVE them!) and a Raven
bristleboard. I've been hanging around some o other local dart pubs (bars), and
am getting better, and can hold my own most of the time. My question comes
from this: I was playing last night with a guy I met. We started off playing
against each other, then we teamed up to play some new people. Here is my
question: He kept getting up and leaving, to go to the bathroom, to get
another beer, to spend time with his girlfriend, to talk to the bartender,
etc. etc. He would do this right before it was his turn to shoot, both when we
were playing each other AND as a team. Now, he was *pretty* drunk, but he
wasn't the only one doing it. It has happened to me before, on several
occasions. I tend to be a fast dart player, and get very into the games. (I
LOVE the strategy!) Am I just being hypercritical, or is this considered rude?
I was getting to the point where I was VERY annoyed at this person (who was a
nice guy in every other respect), and the others who have done it in the past.
(As just a side note, I DO drink beers when I shoot, but I drink much less
than if I were just hanging around the bar. I like to play for keeps, and
maybe these makes me more sensitive to the whole thing. I am not, however, a
sore loser. I just love the game.) Am I being too sensitive about this? Thanks
for any tips and pointers!

						-Jeff

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
[  Jeff Wilson, Academic Operator, State University of New York at Buffalo    ]
[  Dept. of Medical Technology      |   <*I am Operator, hear me roar.*>      ]
[  V222P9NS@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU    | If SUNY Buffalo had wanted my opinions, ]
[  WILSON@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU          | they would have beaten them out of me.  ]
[  ACSOJJW@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU     | Drop, and beat your face, Private.      ]
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
From: tang@akofin.enet.dec.com (Gabe Tang)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.darts
Subject: Re: Hi all... Question...Etiquette?
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:41:38 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


re: Jeff Wilson....
>		
>question: He kept getting up and leaving, to go to the bathroom, to get
>another beer, to spend time with his girlfriend, to talk to the bartender,
>etc. etc. He would do this right before it was his turn to shoot, both when we
>were playing each other AND as a team. Now, he was *pretty* drunk, but he
>wasn't the only one doing it. It has happened to me before, on several
>occasions. I tend to be a fast dart player, and get very into the games. (I
>LOVE the strategy!) Am I just being hypercritical, or is this considered rude?
>I was getting to the point where I was VERY annoyed at this person (who was a
>nice guy in every other respect), and the others who have done it in the past.
>Am I being too sensitive about this? Thanks for any tips and pointers!

Jeff,

	In short, stay away from people like that if you possibly can. 
	If this guy were playing against you, I'd say he was trying to put
	you off your game by slowing down your rhythm, probably because he
	felt you were the better shooter or had the potential to come up with
	some killer darts once you were in a groove. He may have been trying
	to put your opponents off too, but, if they were doing it too, then 
	he just wasn't into the game that much, otherwise, he has made it a 
	standard practice, a habit, of trying to piss people off like that. 
	Apparently it works!  :-(

	Still, since it backfired and worked on you, don't play with/against 
	people like that or otherwise make some comments about how it is 
	inappropriate and how you'd rather not play if he's going to continue 
	delaying. Only if you are in competition, league or tournament, will 
	you have to tolerate that. If you are in a 1-board bar, and this kind 
	of person is already on the board, do you really want to play him and 
	win only to be challenged by him again? It's your call. I'd just as 
	soon go elsewhere or else challenge the guy to $5, $10, $20 for the 
	game. He'll either stop his fooling around and play seriously or else 
	lose money. And if he's going to be giving you cold cash, heck, I'll 
	let him fool around and delay a little, just as long as I see the 
	color of his money. ;^))

	So, now you know. Avoid people like that or else play 'em for money!
	You didn't happen to mention if he was any good, did you? He was a
	nice guy, but annoying, right?
From: tang@akofin.enet.dec.com (Gabe Tang)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.darts
Subject: Re: Soft tips (Was: Lurker comes forward)
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:32:01 GMT
Organization: the vms company


re: (Chris @ SSDA) :

>Hi all,
>
>       Electronic Games
>        At the local grand masters competition 2 years ago - here in Canberra
>Australia - we had a guy demoing a Electronic Bristle board - which would only
>score on dart imbedded in the board - and would play just as many games as you
>would want on it - just a matter of programming the chips, was the explanation.
>The board operated by having each segment of the board being separate enitites
>which were impressed with carbon - the presence of a dart in a segment would
>change its electrical properties and consequently be scored.
>I dont know who made it, etc.  however from memory the unit cost was around
>the 40K mark.

Chris,

	In the US, there is a machine like the one you describe marketed as
	Top Dart. I don't know who maufactures it. I have heard the machine
	quoted to cost around $US 4,000. Somehow I don't think that translates
	into $AUS 40,000. I thought the translation rate was maybe .75US to 
	1AUS. At 40k $AUS, I should think very few are sold at all. :-}

	Still, that's a lot to pay for a machine to do the scoring for you. ;^)
	I recall the talk was that the board itself was the weak point. They
	wore out just as quickly if not more so than a regular bristle
	board but cost a bit more since they were made with graphite (carbon)
	throughout the bristles. You need a lot of games to make back that
	investment and cost of board replacements. Depending upon which game 
	was being played and with chitchat, delays for beer and bathroom runs, 
	practice/warm-ups and whatnot, let's say a typical game goes for about 
	10 minutes on average. Even with a game machine being used for 12 hours 
	per day, or 72 games, that will only average out to $36 per day assuming
	$.50 per game because of 2 players. Besides the fact that it would
	take roughly 111 days to make back the initial outlay and maybe a
	few board changes, I still think $36 a day isn't a real money earner
	either. For a bar, I should think the attraction is still in serving
	alcohol. The darts is merely the amusement that draws people into
	the bar. All in all, I'd rather buy 1 standard board for $36 dollars
	and collect the extra $36 dollars each day in the form of served
	drinks. After 111 days or so, I'd probably be a little under $4,000 
	ahead rather than just paying off the cost of the machine. 

	Hey, what do I know. I haven't seen many of these type of electronic
	darts in the area either. Must be cheap bar owners too.  8-}}
Newsgroups: alt.sport.darts
From: GJAMES@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA (GJames)
Subject: tips
Organization: Saint Mary's University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 12:58:29 GMT

I have been looking for a book about the mechnics of playing darts. I seem 
to go through periods of doinf well and then I cant hit anything. 

Anybody have any pointers for me?
From: ballm@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: alt.sport.darts
Subject: Re: Out Charts questioned
Date: 2 Oct 92 10:31:58 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

In article <1992Oct1.143314.28805@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, pfleming@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick E Fleming) writes:
> I find this little chart handy (esspecially the second part!)
> 
>      - Pat
> .
> 
> Two dart outs:
> 
> 110 - T20 D25     89 - T19 D16     76 - T20 D8      63 - T13 D12
> 107 - T19 D25     88 - T16 D20     75 - T17 D12     62 - T10 D16
> 104 - T18 D25     87 - T17 D18     74 - T14 D16     61 - T15 D8
> 101 - T17 D25     86 - T18 D16     73 - T19 D8      60 - S20 D20
> 100 - T20 D20     85 - T15 D20     72 - T16 D12     59 - S19 D20
>  98 - T20 D19     84 - T20 D12     71 - T13 D16     58 - S18 D20
>  97 - T19 D20     83 - T17 D16     70 - T18 D8      57 - S17 D20
>  96 - T20 D18     82 - T18 D14     69 - T15 D12     56 - S16 D20
>  95 - T19 D19     81 - T15 D18     68 - T12 D16     55 - S15 D20
>  94 - T20 D17     80 - T16 D16     67 - T17 D8      54 - S14 D20
>  92 - T20 D16     79 - T13 D20     66 - T14 D12     53 - S13 D20
>  91 - T17 D20     78 - T18 D12     65 - S25 D20     52 - S20 D16
>  90 - T20 D15     77 - T15 D16     64 - T16 D8      51 - S19 D16
> 

I know this has been discussed before but I still feel compelled to question
this chart.
Other shots:

95 - T15 D25     82 - T14 D20     72 - T18 D18       
94 - T18 D20   **80 - T20 D20** **68 - T20 D4 **
90 - T18 D18     75 - S25 D25   **64 - T20 D2 **   

These give a novice the same chance to double out as per previous suggestions
But for the good shooter, those starred give them a better chance.

Reason: If you have been shooting T20 all game (with some success), why would
you stop shooting it when you have 80,68, or 64 left? I prefer to finish on D16
like most people, but I am not afraid of other doubles, including D1.

> 
> 
> One dart out shots:
> 
> 50 - D25       28 - D14         14 - D7
> 40 - D20       26 - D13         12 - D6
> 38 - D19       24 - D12         10 - D5
> 36 - D18       22 - D11          8 - D4
> 34 - D17       20 - D10          6 - D3
> 32 - D16       18 - D9           4 - D2
> 30 - D15       16 - D8           2 - D1


Boy! These were tough to figure out!!! ;-)


> -- 
> - Patrick E. Fleming ---



May all your arrows be straight.

mick