HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gvw@epcc.ed.ac.uk (Greg Wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Indentation
Date: 17 Aug 92 11:30:01 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh Parallel Computing Centre

In article <7049@charon.cwi.nl>, guido@cwi.nl (Guido van Rossum) writes:
> bosullvn@unix1.tcd.ie (Bryan O'Sullivan) writes:
> >A more modern example [of indentation as part of language syntax] is
> > Guido van Rossum's Python language, used in Amoeba.
> It certainly doesn't simplify parsing (to the contrary) but was chosen
> (following the example of ABC) because scripts and programs become
> smaller this way, and because of the effect noted by a previous
> poster: if the indentation mismatches the syntactic structure, novices
> may get confused.  By making the indentation the syntax, this effect
> is impossible.

Occam requires two-space indentation to show scope, as in:

INT a, b, c :
SEQ
  a = 0
  PAR
    SEQ
      b = a
      b = cos(b)
    SEQ
      c = a/2
      c = c + 1

The problem I always had with this was the difficulty of determining the
scope of a long block --- without explicit end-of-block indicators, one
is reduced to putting a ruler on a printout.  One of the (few) nice
features of C's syntax is the use of curlies, which most editors can
auto-match.  I always teach students to format code as:

while (a < b){
    if (a >= c){
        do something
    } else {
        do something else
    }
}

for just this reason.

 ========================================================================
  Gregory V. Wilson                    ||  For in much wisdom is much
  Technical Coordinator                ||  grief; and he that increaseth
  Edinburgh Parallel Computing Centre  ||  knowledge, increaseth sorrow.
  gvw@epcc.edinburgh.ac.uk             ||               - Ecclesiastes
 ========================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Fantasy Graphics System
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 01:33:47 GMT

In article <millernw.713536416@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> millernw@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Neal Miller) writes:
}... Each pixel on the screen would be driven by its own high-speed
}CPU, and... well, ok this isn't the most economical way of building such a 
}system, but it *is* nice to think about.  Maybe it'll be out in two years,
}now that I've sent up this posting. :)

Been done.  The Connection Machine.

(Well, maybe not one CPU per pixel, but 64K CPUs in parallel, anyway.
Enough for 256 x 256.  Put four together and you'd have 512 x 512.
Expensive, but doable).

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: bmarcum@world.std.com (Bill Marcum)
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 04:37:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.163058.27199@iitmax.iit.edu> thssstb@iitmax.iit.edu (Stephen T Bacon) writes:
>In article <1992Aug9.223743.7381@picarefy.picarefy.com> jwbirdsa@picarefy.picarefy.com (James W. Birdsall) writes:
>
>>>- When you look away from the screen you still see some screen flicker in
>>>normal vision or the burn-in of lines.
>>
>>   I've had rastervision more than once. Worries me when it happens.
>>
>
>It's caused by your eyes becoming accustomed to the screen color (usually
>green - to which the eye is most sensitive) and then when you look away
>because your'e retinas have acclimated, you percieve a loss of green in what
>you're looking at.  This shouldn't happen if you're looking at a color
>screen.  I don't know if it's anything to worry about (then again, worry
>about EVERYTHING, then when you get sick, you can say "I told you so.")
>
Speaking of screen color, I've noticed somthing interesting on a computer
where I work.  The screen display has alternating lines of red and light-blue
text on a dark-blue background.  I wear very thick glasses, and as I move my
head, the red letters seem to move around while the light blue letters stand
still.

Bill Marcum  bmarcum@world.std.com  b.marcum@genie.geis.com
From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: SAGE
Date: 21 Aug 92 05:26:23 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Aug16.093416.6605@lth.se> d89cb@efd.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) writes:
>Seems that Model Railroads have always had a big part ... :)
If only they had built a model before they built BART.
-- 
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
haynes@cats.bitnet

"Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an Art."
        Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
From: alanlb@bethesda.cs.vt.edu (Alan L. Batongbacal)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Copy of Ritchie's "Why Pascal Is Not My Favorite..."?
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:35:28 GMT

Does somebody out there have a copy of this?

alan l. batongbacal
alanlb@csgrad.cs.vt.edu
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12825 comp.unix.misc:3311
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:39:27 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Aug19.195827.8149@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>In article <Bt8t2q.71H@mtholyoke.edu> jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:
>>In article <bqt.714224577@Minsk> bqt@Minsk.docs.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) writes:

>Bully for you.  I map nice and clean from mental design to assembler source
>code to the point that sometimes I extemporaneosly type it in.  I delegate the
>rest of the housekeeping to my assembler.  For me, symbolic assembly language
>is a high-level-enough language.  Your method comes from an academia steeped
>in telling you how to write programs using pseudo-code or other general 
>methods.  And sometimes, this is acceptable.  However, I predate their
>pronouncements of the "only" way to write good code.

Are you seriously claiming that you go straight from a mental picture
of the final program to assembly without any intervening design steps?


Are these projects of any significan size?  Personally, I find this
kind of coding horrifying.  I certainly wouldn't buy anything that I
thought had been done like that.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:27:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.192217.7309@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
> Obviously my experience in assembler language leads me to this conclusion;
> hll people wouldn't care where their meat comes from :-).

I'll buy that. So long as it's not toxic, I don't care where my meat comes
from.

So, is an 8086 spoiled food?
-- 
Peter da Silva                                               `-_-'
$ EDIT/TECO LOVE                                              'U` 
%TECO-W-OLDJOKE Not war?                        Have you hugged your wolf today?
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.      Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012       +1 713 274 5180
From: tbruseha@kafka.ems.cdc.com (Tom Brusehaver)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Non Unix-OS's
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:15:10 GMT
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of Control Data

>
>You can't get anything from Osborne.  They went belly-up years ago (and
>deservedly so, IMHO).
>
I don't think Osborne (nor Sol, nor ...) deserved to go belly up.  If
you think about it, the IBM PC was an Osborne clone.  They both are
from the same era (early 80's).  A quick comparison:

    Osborne         IBM-PC (no XT's or AT's)
    -------         ------------------------
    8-Bit CPU       8-Bit CPU                   (the Z-80 had 16bit reg's too.)
    64K RAM         64K RAM
    Single Task     Single Task                 (Ask Mr. Gates DOS was a 
        OS              OS                       CP/M clone)
    2 floppiess     2 floppies
    Text display    Text display
    Detach keyboard Detach keyboard
                    Cassette Port               (almost forgot about that)
    
So although IBM might have come up with a different implementation, it
wasn't better.  Remember CP/M 3.0 can deal with 1.0 Megabytes of
memory, and DOS (all versions) can only deal with 640K.  There are
many arguments that IBM did it with a system with a future, but lets
face it, if IBM wasn't the name on the box, the PC would have been an
also ran, and we would have something better on the desktop today.


>The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
>Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
>3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
>Santa Monica, CA  90405


Tommy B.
From: magnus@THEP.LU.SE (Magnus Olsson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Favorite CPU
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:09:50 GMT
Organization: Theoretical Physics, Lund University, Sweden

In article <1992Aug11.164621.16318@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM> rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM writes:

>c. The cost of bounds checking is overrated in most places. 
>   The cost of NOT bounds checking is only valued by those who place
>   performance in front of correctness.
>   Please don't write air traffic control systems or xray machine 
>   controllers for me if you are of the latter school.

Of course, if you're writing software which will decide matters of
life or death, bounds checking isn't enough - what if you've written
an air traffic control system, or, even worse, the fly-by-wire
software in an airplane, and in the middle of a critical manuever you
get the message

Array index out of bounds - core dumped?


It is a highly non-trivial matter what to do in cases like this -
if we catch the error, we must know exactly what to do about it in every
conceivable situation.

Of course, in real life, programs like these use sophisticated error
recovery mechanisms - real exception handling rather than just
abort-on-overflow. Or do they?

Magnus Olsson                   | \e+      /_
Dept. of Theoretical Physics    |  \  Z   / q
University of Lund, Sweden      |   >----<           
Internet: magnus@thep.lu.se     |  /      \===== g
Bitnet: THEPMO@SELDC52          | /e-      \q
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.human-factors,comp.misc,comp.programming
From: norman@a.cs.okstate.edu (Norman Graham)
Subject: Re: Indentation
Organization: Oklahoma State University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 19:01:52 GMT

From article <1992Aug14.175408.3096@bnrmtl.bnr.ca>, by pat@bnrmtl.bnr.ca (Patrick Smith):
> In article <1992Aug14.170444.1576@tandem.com>, tvv@tandem.com (Tom Van Vleck) writes:
> |BTI computer systems had an implementation language called DRAGON, in
> |which the indentation WAS the loop/if scope indicator.  Pat Helland
> |worked on the language there and told me about it after he left.
> 
> An interesting idea.
> Does anyone know how well this worked in practice?
 
In systems I've used, it works well. I believe this mechanism 
(called 'layout' or 'off-side rule') originated in Peter Landin's
work on Iswim in the mid-60's. The layout mechanism has been 
adopted by most of the purely functional programming languages
designed in the past 10 years (eg. Miranda and Haskell).  The use
of layout seems to be generally regarded as a good thing by those
in the functional programming community.
-- 
Norman Graham
<norman@a.cs.okstate.edu>                 Standard Disclaimer Applies
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: xexeo@dxlaa.cern.ch (Geraldo Xexeo)
Subject: Zuse Computers
Reply-To: xexeo@dxlaa.cern.ch
Organization: CERN - European Organization for Particle Physics
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:07:58 GMT


Swiss German spoken TV (DSR) showed yesterday night a service about Konrad Zuse
(or Conrad Zuze?) . He was the pionner of computing in Germany. The Z1 was
a MECHANIC computer, able to do simple calculations, while the last
Z was a REAL COMPUTER.

Zuse work was parallel to the one done in USA, independent creation and
used much less money. The program showed some machines and a copy
of Z1, that was made and installed in a Museum in Germany.

He is now retired, 82 year old and painting nice pictures.

Since I don't speak ANY German, a friend of mine was doing a partial trans
lation of the important information. 

Zuse company was bought by Siemens Nixdorf

 In the end, they showed a old Zuse computer with a TTY and tape input
device and another input device that was the inverse of a plotter.
It was used to create later on an original cut for a clothe factory in
a large CUTTER (a plotter that cuts, I invented the word now).

I hope to see it soon in French or Italian spoken Swiss TV (we have
one for each language here).

Any of you  used or know were Zuse computers can be seen?

           Cheers,

                   Jerry


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geraldo Xexeo      |internet: xexeo@dxcern.cern.ch | "Cristo Redentor,    
CERN - PPE Division|bitnet:   gxexeo@cernvm.bitnet |  Bracos abertos sobre a
1211 Geneve 23     |decnet:   vxcern::xexeo        |  Guanabara...
Switzerland        |FAX:      (41) (22) 785 - 0207 |  Rio, eu gosto de voce!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
From: Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff Mccaughan)
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:00:29 +1200
Organization: Equinox Networks
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

jwbirdsa@picarefy.picarefy.com (James W. Birdsall) writes:
>
>   Well, I have six computers in a row on two desks and a table in an L
>shape. Unfortunately, I don't have a rolling chair yet so I have to
>actually get up and drag my desk chair, but I'm close... (and this is only
>my home computers!)

I have a similar setup at home, but now I have a chair with wheels. I did
this because at work I have a chair with wheels, and am used to whizzing
back and forth. A couple of times I accidentally tried this at home [before
my present chair] with predictable results.

Now all I need is armrests, to handle the old "falling asleep in the chair"
problem... 8-)

--
Geoff, Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 [4 Lines]
                               Voice: +64 (3) 3852101
        "Hi. You have just entered the fourth dimension. Small isn't it?"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: SAGE 
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 22:54:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.091259.17362@ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>
hgz@cs5.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Hans-Georg Zipperer) writes:
>Does anyone have more information on the AN/FSQ-7? Why was it used so long
>(if this is really true)? Was the system really as good as it sounds?

A sesssion was devoted to SAGE at the History of Personal Workstations
Conference, ed. Adele Goldberg, ACM Press.  Includes photos of the
light gun, the light cannon, and I think a video tape exists of this session
as well (also ACM).

That good?  You'd have to start a war to find out.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: James Petts <pettsj@visigoth.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Copy of Ritchie's "Why Pascal Is Not My Favorite..."?
Organization: No Affiliation
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 08:13:36 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1



In article <3304@creatures.cs.vt.edu> Alan L. Batongbacal,
alanlb@bethesda.cs.vt.edu writes:
>Does somebody out there have a copy of this?

I, too, would be interested in a copy.

James Petts
********************************************************************
* "We use the classical theory on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, *   
*  and the quantum theory on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays."   *
************************************** Wm. Bragg *******************
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Good source code to read?
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:21:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug9.060637.15676@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

}Why do you need cross-assemblers?  Is your system so feeble it doesn't
}have an assembler of its own?

This is quite common with special purpose and embedded systems.  Nearly
all the work I've done here in the past 8 years has been cross assembled
or cross compiled to run on our proprietary hardware.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:35:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.012242.15303@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
> In article <id.FN9S.OC8@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
> }... Anyone who knows only one programming language, or who identifies
> }themselves as being a "language X" programmer, is a pretty sore kind of
> }programmer indeed.

> The reality is, unless you work 100% for yourself, most programmers don't
> get a choice about what language to program in.

This was true 20 years ago.

It was only true in an economic sense 15 years ago: you could always get one
of the 6800 or 8080 based personal computers, or homebrew one yourself.

Today, you can buy a computer for $400 that supports dozens of free programming
languages (free in the sense that you can get them for media and postage). Or
you can pay more and get more of a choice of commercial software, but I'd
suggest the former system: it's got a better overall design.

> You can debate all you want about assembler vs. other.  In the end, if you
> like to eat at all regularly, you'll do what you're paid to do.

If you want to continue to eat regularly, it's worthwhile spending a little
of your own money on a personal computer that'll expand your horizons.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                               `-_-'
$ EDIT/TECO LOVE                                              'U` 
%TECO-W-OLDJOKE Not war?                        Have you hugged your wolf today?
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.      Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012       +1 713 274 5180
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12926 alt.folklore.science:3098
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.science
Subject: Re: LED's and special effects
Date: 22 Aug 92 21:58:36 GMT
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Distribution: alt
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.

kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad) writes:
: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz) writes:
: >The device is an LED strip about a meter or two long, mounted on a
: >pole several meters high. The strip is about the size of those little
: >signs that scroll words using LED's, and flickers at a fast rate. If
: >you look at it out of the corner of your eye, moving your head
: >rapidly, the LED afterimages somehow "paint" a picture in the air. The
: >display cycled through several different pictures.
: >
: >  Anyone out here seen one of these things, or know the theory behind
: >it? 
: 
: This is just due to persistance of vision... you see the column of
: LEDs in one configuration (think of it as one column on a CRT), and
: then you turn your head a little bit... BUT... the first column
: remains "imprinted" in your mind due to persistance of vision.  Now,
: since you turned your head, the next place you see the LEDs will be
: offset from the first column.  So, now if we change the pattern on
: the LEDs, we can form an image!
: 
: Nifty trick.  Not too horribly useful, though. :-)  Sears used to sell a
: long sword like device that worked just like this -- except that the idea
: was to swing the sword through the air, instead of your head.
: 

You can buy little heads-up computer monitors that use this technique.
The display is a single column of LEDs that you view via a mirror that
vibrates back and forth in a direction perpendicular to the column of
LEDs.  The whole thing is about half the size of a pack of cigarettes
and straps on the side of your head and a little heads-up reflector
sticks out an inch or two in front of one eye.  The optics are
arranged so that it appears that there is a red and black CGA
resolution display hanging about two feet in front of you.

This has all been related based on descriptions that I've read.  I've
never actually tried one -- though Id like to.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  Can I have an IMPULSE
Rosemount Inc.                                |ITEM instead?
                                              |
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Nonfiction Computer Histo
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:18:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

BO> .I'm looking for good NONFICTION books about computer history.
  > .(ENIAC to present)

"From Dits to Bits" by H. Lukoff.
Herm was there, at the beginning.  It's more biography than history, but
there's so much anecdotal information that it's worth reading.

        D/


 * OLX 2.2 * Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
                                                                  
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12779 comp.unix.misc:3300