HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jk87377@cc.tut.fi (Juhana Kouhia)
Subject: Re: Deckard as 6th Replicant doesn't hold water
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 17:01:34 GMT


In article <6001@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at>
mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) writes:
>From article <1992Oct7.173208.8611@cc.tut.fi>, by jk87377@cc.tut.fi
>(Juhana Kouhia):
> 
>>>but I thought one of the main themes in BR
>>>was the fact that Deckard IS NOT a replicant
>
>> It is still the main theme, because 'Deckard is a replicant'--claim
>> comes out only at the end, when Deckard finds the folded unicorn from
>> the floor.
>
>It is not (assuming you accept the unicorn as proof that Deckard is a
>replicant), since conclusions drawn from an invalid premise are not
>valid.

We can assume as you suspect.
I don't understand you; what you mean? It is English, but...

Do you watch end of the movies before you watch the movie?
To the few last minutes of the film I did compare the Deckard (human)
and replicants; so, the main theme is still ok.

What do you mean? Are not my thoughts valid? As I have understood,
you yourself follow the same idea (Deckard is human and you compare
human and replicants).
Would you please explane?
To me it looks like you don't realize that the movie
has a time order: begin comes first and end comes last.

The main theme of film then distord at the end when (some) people
realizes Deckard is a replicant (make that 'could be').

By the way, do you understand me?


Juhana Kouhia
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.starwars
From: rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao)
Subject: Return of the Jedi - what I didn't like (again)
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 03:18:23 GMT

I missed the recent stuff about what he hated about RofJ, and I just saw it
again and just had to comment. One disappointment is the way Han and Lando
are portrayed. For most of the film, they do not act like smugglers or
pirates. They might as well be Wedge.
The dialogue is weak. Consider the scene where Han and Lando part, and they
say "Get going, ya pirate." The whole scene could have been cut. I also
thought the scene with Yoda was weak. 50% could have been cut. Also, why
should Yoda pass away at that convenient time when Luke happens to be back?
The scene where Luke tells Leia they are related has almost no emotion.
I believe the opening scene could have been cut as it serves no purpose.
Does anyone agree that small ships should not be able to go into hyperspace?
Perhaps they could have loaded them all onto a carrier first.
All the scenes on Endor make me feel like the entire screenplay should have
been chucked. The film reaches a low point when Leia gives a cracker to
the little bear.
The shots of pilots saying "She gonna blow" etc. seemed out of place. the
whole business of blowing up the Death Star II seemed pointless.
The muppett aliens did not seem like the aliens from the first two films.
There's too much hot air about the dark side, the good side, and why does
Luke try to talk like his dad? I liked him better when he yelled all the
time.
I was beginning to like Admiral Piett.
-- 
Robert Chao
Oakland, California
From: bov@x.co.uk (Andy Bovingdon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Tremors
Date: 13 Oct 92 09:02:22 GMT
Organization: IXI Ltd.


I must agree that Tremors is a very good film, but I hope that there is 
never a Tremors 2 to ruin it. To many duff follow up films ruin the first,
and anyway what would the plot be, Giant worms turn up in a city, or do
they turn up on a prison planet where there is no salt or washing up liquid!
More than likely the same plot, with different actors and location!
No I shall keep watching the first one when I want my Tremors fix. In my
opinion more is not always better.

--
                           _________________________               _ __ ___ _
  IXI Limited             |       bov@x.co.uk       |             | |\ /  /| |
  Vision Park,            |  *  Andy  Bovingdon  *  |             | | /  / | |
  Cambridge, England.     |_________________________|             |_|/__/_\|_|
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: kohler@fenris.com (Kurt Kohler)
Subject: Re: Star Wars music like what earlier composition?
Organization: Fenris Information Exchange, Corvallis, Ore.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:20:38 GMT

pjs@euclid.JPL.NASA.GOV (Peter J. Scott) writes:

>I've read in the past postings to the effect of "The theme from
>Star Wars is a rip-off of piece X, by composer Y."  I have no
>idea whether this is true and personally don't care, I would just
>like to know the claimed values of X and Y so I can go listen to
>it myself...

  First I would object to the use of the word "ripoff" :-) But there is a
connection between John Williams' score for Star Wars and the English
composer Gustav Holst's symphonic poem The Planets. The story as I've
heard it is that George Lucas used The Planets as a guide while editing
the movie. Then he asked Williams to write new music that fit the feeling
and tempo of the music he'd used. 
  The strongest resemblance as I remember is between the Imperial March
(I think that's what it's called) and the Mars section of The Planets. The
primary difference is that Williams' march is four beats to the bar, while
Mars has five. (Makes it hard to march to!)
  In any case, to answer your real question, The Planets is very much worth
seeking out. There is an excellent recording by Charles Dutoit and the
Montreal Symphony. John Williams, as I'm sure he'd be the first to admit,
is hardly in the same league. As movie music it's definitely above average
though.

  Kurt Kohler
  kohler@fenris.com


-- 

     Kurt Kohler

     Asset Control Systems, Inc.
From: ed@cwis.unomaha.edu (Ed Stastny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: /HEAVY METAL/
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:51:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: cwis.ed.719268672
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter) writes:

>BRADHAMP> Are TRON and HEAVY METAL available on tape?  if so, how can
>BRADHAMP> I get copies?  If not, why not? [they were both really good
>BRADHAMP> flicks]

>Tron probably. Try a video store... Heavy Metal has never been
>commercially release on VHS or any other media.

One thing to correct there, HEAVY METAL was released to Cinemax to air.
That's where most, if not all, people who have it on video got it from.
 
I assume by "any other media" you meant laserdisc and such...but I
thought I'd clarify the point.

...e

--
ed@cwis.unomaha.edu + Editor, SOUND News and Arts magazine
ag787@yfn.ysu.edu   + PO BX 31104, Omaha,NE 68131 (lg SASE for copy)
My name is Ed...    + SOUND FTPable: quartz.rutgers.edu(pub/journals) 
   ...I love my mom.+                141.214.4.135(docs/zines/sound)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: tnt@netcom.com (Terry Turner)
Subject: _tremors_ was too good to have a sequel.
Organization: Watch the Skies
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:50:26 GMT


_tremors_ was too good to have a sequel. 

it was derivative but undeniably the best science fiction comedy of the
last five years. come to think of it, i cannot think of a better sf
comedy. 

but, sequels suck.
-- 
terry
	tnt@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
id <m0mfBWT-0000BdC@crash.cts.com>; Wed, 14 Oct 92 09: 24 PDT
	id <je33851@pro-amber.cts.com>; Wed, 14 Oct 92 09: 24 PDT
From: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (Randy Sopicki)
Subject: Re: Tremors
Organization: ProLine [pro-amber] -- Spring Valley, Ca
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 09:06:21 PDT

I must agree. To have a Tremors II would just not work. A whole new story
with the the same crisp writing and cast interaction, no we're talking.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: glocke@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Gordon Locke  )
Subject: Re: T3 PAL VHS Letterbox When?
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:21:25 GMT

	Never mind that (seems inevitable in any case) -- what about a
_director's cut_, or some other kind of release which would incorporate
stuff you could read in the novelisation / screenplay or see pictures of
in magazines / promotional material, but which was cut out of the movie
we got to see.  Such as the Kyle Reese dream sequence, and the
malfunctioning T-1000 bit during the steel mill climax thingee.  These
would augment the plot greatly.  Also, the book's Epilogue which shows
the alternate Judgment Day future (which was filmed) would remove
speculation about a third film.  Presumably, these scenes were cut due
to time considerations.  As it was, the thing was 2 and a quarter hours
long!  I understand a lot of these scenes _were_ filmed, but were just
left out of the version we got to see.  Anyone know the poop?

	Gord, a.k.a. glocke@morgan.ucs.mun.ca
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.movies:7797 alt.cult-movies:8862
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies,alt.cult-movies
Subject: Re: Computers or physical? (was Re: Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too!)
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:07:38 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <1992Oct8.131813.4354@mks.com>, by andrew@mks.com (Andrew Hamilton-Wright):
> Actually, while on the "dictionary def'n" thread - a cyborg (as I have always
> understood it) is a contraction of "Cybernetic Organism", meaning an organism
> enhanced by "robotic" implants

Exactly.

> The Terminator (500? - Arnie's model anyway) has a 'living' exterior skin
> (which dies & starts to smell) - so can't he be considered a human
> skin with (a whole lot of) cybernetic help?

I would say no, as the skin is in no way necessary for him to
function.  The skin is mere camouflage, it does not aid him in
movement, brain functions etc.  (Possibly it has produces sensory
inputs, but I doubt that.)  Therefore, there's no real cybernetics
(i.e., control structure there).  The skin hangs around (perhaps
simulating muscle movement, though I doubt that), and if it falls of,
nothing is lost in terms of power or even feedback, nor is the skin
capable of existing without the robot.

I.e., you could call the Terminator a biologically cloaked/enhanced
robot, but there is no real "organism" to speak of.  Indeed, all uses
of the word "Cyborg" that I have seen pre-Terminator (and virtually
all I have seen since then) assumed a natural brain (human or animal,
possibly with body attached :-) as core of a cyborg, since that was
the part that was thought to be the most-needed and hardest to
reproduce artificially.
-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Deckard as 6th Replicant doesn't hold water
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:05:03 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <1992Oct9.113012.5679@cc.tut.fi>, by jk87377@cc.tut.fi (Juhana Kouhia):
> Of course, I understand this clearly, but the question is
> about the main theme (as seen by a viewer who see the movie first
> time -- usually people watch a movie only one time, thus it is
> pointless to argue that the main theme should be that one
> which comes when you see the movie backwards from the video tape or
> similar :-).

But the main theme *is* influenced by the end of the movie.  The
vilm's not over until it's over, sorry.

> What I'm saying is that you don't know it until at the end.
> Thus, you think there's human & replicants.

Yes, and I'm wrong thinking it.

>>If, up to that last moment, some other person (B) was
>>the main suspect of murdering the victim (C), do you still leave the
>>cinema thinking "I wonder why B hated C enough to kill him"?  No,
>>because you know B did *not* kill C - the premise is invalid.
 
> Hmm... in case of BR we don't *know*.

All of this discussion is under the assumption that Deckard is a
replicant.  If he isn't, then there is no problem.

> Usually, movies as in your example, tells very clearly at the
> beginning that we have an innocent B.

Perhaps you have seen less films than I have, or you have a different
selection.

> If it is not made clear, then I believe B is murderer until
> I see the end of movie.

And at that time you realize that your analysis is wrong - the main
theme was not B's murdering C's, it was A's murdering C's.

If Deckard is a replicant, then the film does not tell you anything
about the behavior of ordinary humans that hunt replicants (apart from
Gaff, in the background), it tells you about a replicant hunting
replicants.  That's it.  Sorry.

(I think we shoudl take this to email if you want to continue.)
-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
From: moscatel@granite.ma30.bull.com (Joseph Moscatelli)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: TRON/HEAVY METAL/DUNE/BLADE RUNNER
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:31:51 GMT
Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Inc.

In article <1992Oct16.143721.12961@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> cliff@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Cliff Chen) writes:
>In article <9210152026.AA07760@rutgers.edu> BRADHAMP@ASHLEY.COFC.EDU writes:
>
>>Are TRON and HEAVY METAL available on tape?  if so, how can I get copies?
>
>	TRON, yes.  As for getting a copy...you might try talking to
>someone at the local Disney Store.  They could probably order it for you.
>	Heavy Metal...no.  Not legally anyway.  There has not and will
>never be a videotape of Heavy Metal.  Something to do with contract
>disagreements.
I seem to remember something about the disagreements being related to the
sound track and copyrights with the various groups on the track.
I would assume that one of the sources of the bootleg copies is cable, since
HM is shown a couple of times a year. Unfortunately on a station that I do 
not have :-(. 







>disagreements.  
-- 
 == Joseph A. Moscatelli                ==
 == Bull HN Information Systems         ==
 == j.moscatelli@granite.ma30.bull.com  ==
From: sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Stelter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: plot question
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:46:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw76Lp.2z
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao) writes:


>When our gang jumped down into the garbage room on the Death Star, why
>didn't the stormtroopers follow? Did they not see through the smoke?
>Afraid of being ambushed? Afraid of getting their armor wet?
>They could have shot into the garbage room, and the shots would have
>ricocheted all over the place, which would have been cool!

The 'troopers were probably well aware of what was down there--namely, the
garbage monster.  They probably figured that it would finish Our Heroes off.
As for why they didn't shoot down the shaft: maybe the shaft turned or 
curved somewhere along the line, making a shot impossible.


                                 --Steve Stelter
                                   sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
From: rchandle@maths.tcd.ie (Ross Chandler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: T3 PAL VHS Letterbox When?
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:48:26 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.

In Ireland and the UK T2 has just been released on sell-through
video. Great and about time too. But the release is only in
the contemptable 4:3 ratio of the TV screen which hardly
does justice to T2 in all its widesreen glory.

Does any wise individual out there know when a letterboxed
version is coming out in Ireland/UK ?

Also what is the address of Guild Home Video so I can write to
them demanding they hurry up with its release?
From: adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Alien kits again
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:42:12 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computing & Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland


In article <SS.92Oct13132212@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> ss@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter) writes:
>
>adrian> The "Nostromo" is apparently a limited release, with 5000
>adrian> copies being distributed world-wide.
>
>I thought was only 500 kits??

Quite possible.  5000 was the number on the hand-written sign in the local
shop; I do not know where they got that number.

In article <SS.92Oct13142038@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> ss@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter) writes:
>>>>>> On 13 Oct 92 14:02:20 GMT, adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) said:
>
>adrian> Name			Scale	Price (U.K. pounds)
>adrian> --------------------------------------------------- 
>adrian> Alien Creature		1/9	18.99
>
>Yes me again. Exactly which kit is this? I could identify all but this
>one. It it the Alien 3 alien?

It is a brown coloured creature, looking slimmer than the average Alien.
It does not have the bones sticking out of its back.  It appears to be
leaning forward as if running, rather than standing upright.

-- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian   |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk
From: n9043455@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Neal)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: BladeRunner
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:49:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Oct14.194958.21837
Organization: Western Washington University

Does anyone know of any outlets for BladeRunner memorobilia?  I have been
trying to get ahold of the posters which have been released with the 
director's cut but no stores near me seem able to get ahold of any.

-- 
_________________________________________________________________________
$     Neal Josephson                                                    $
$     n9043455@henson.cc.wwu.edu                                        $
From: ss@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Alien kits again
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:22:12 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk's message of 13 Oct 92 14:02:20 GMT


adrian> The "Nostromo" is apparently a limited release, with 5000
adrian> copies being distributed world-wide.

I thought was only 500 kits??
--
 Scott Streeter                             Keeper of the Star Wars Archive
 ss@wpi.wpi.edu                             wpi.wpi.edu        130.215.24.1
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Alien kits again
Date: 16 Oct 92 11:52:00 GMT
	<1992Oct16.094212.5187@cs.hw.ac.uk>
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk's message of 16 Oct 92 09:42:12 GMT

>>>>> On 16 Oct 92 09:42:12 GMT, adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) said:

adrian> In article <SS.92Oct13132212@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> ss@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter) writes:
>
>adrian> The "Nostromo" is apparently a limited release, with 5000
>adrian> copies being distributed world-wide.
>
ss> I thought was only 500 kits??

adrian> Quite possible.  5000 was the number on the hand-written sign
adrian> in the local shop; I do not know where they got that number.

adrian> Name			Scale	Price (U.K. pounds) 
adrian> ---------------------------------------------------
adrian> Creature		1/9	18.99

ss> Yes me again. Exactly which kit is this? I could identify all but this
ss> one. It it the Alien 3 alien?

adrian> It is a brown coloured creature, looking slimmer than the
adrian> average Alien.  It does not have the bones sticking out of its
adrian> back.  It appears to be leaning forward as if running, rather
adrian> than standing upright.

This sounds like the Alien 3 alien warrior. Star Tech had a picture of
it in there last catalog.

--
 Scott Streeter                             Keeper of the Star Wars Archive
 ss@wpi.wpi.edu                             wpi.wpi.edu        130.215.24.1
From: ddkilzer@iastate.edu (David D Kilzer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: "Predator" Question
Date: 14 Oct 92 05:31:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw3JBv.DC8
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

What is the name of the character that Arnold Schwarzeneggar plays in
"Predator"?

E-mail is preferred, posting will work for a limited time.

Thanks!

Dave


-- 
[   >The Davemeister<  ][     __IMZADI__  ST:TNG Novel by Peter David     ]
[ ddkilzer@iastate.edu ][ Riker (about Counsellor Troi): "She looked good ]
[   David D. Kilzer    ][   naked.  Okay, great naked.  Okay, spectacular ]
[   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    ][   beyond belief naked."                         ]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: mas@Cadence.COM (Masud Khan)
Subject: Re: What is the name of the SCI-FI movie with Julie Christie and a computer
Keywords: Julie Christie, information wanted
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:24:25 GMT

In article <billd.717294449@cheetah> billd@informix.com (William Daul) writes:
>It has something to do with a massive computer who refuses to tell 
>governments how to mine the ocean bottom.  Julie Christie is impregnated
>by the computer.  
>
>NAME THAT MOVIE!
>
>Thanks,  --Bill

I think it was The Demon Seed and the computer was called Proteus.

Mas
-- 
                /\    /\    /\  ///////
               //\\  //\\  //\\ \\\
              ///\\\///\\\///\\\ \/////\
             ///  \\//  \\\/==\\\     \\\
From: edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Sneakers Press Pack
Date: 14 Oct 1992 13:30:39 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Dept. of Math.
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu


>"Sneakers" was discussed in this weeks edition of Film 92 on BBC TV.
>One of the points covers was a "computerised Press Pack" which was available
>to persons with a computer, apart from the press.
>
>Has anyone come across this item and/or know where it can be found?

I haven't looked at it, and I do not know if this is what Film 92
intends, but there is a special 'Sneakers' section on CompuServe.
-- 
  Gerald A. Edgar                Internet:  edgar@mps.ohio-state.edu
  Department of Mathematics      Bitnet:    EDGAR@OHSTPY
  The Ohio State University      telephone: 614-292-0395 (Office)
  Columbus, OH 43210             -292-4975 (Math. Dept.) -292-1479 (Dept. Fax)
From: dianetti@acsu.buffalo.edu (Donald J. Dianetti)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: T3 ?? What's the deal?
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:46:11 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Oct8.194821.27843@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> glocke@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Gordon Locke  ) writes:
>
>	Pardon me if this is in a FAQ somewhere (I looked and couldn't
>find a FAQ posted), but I read on this newsgroup a while back a post
>wherein someone quoted a newspaper article that announced the
>forthcoming Terminator 3 movie.  What's the deal.
>	The alleged article told of a nnews conference held by Cameron,
>Arnie, Linda Hamilton, et al., and said that the flick will be out in
>the summer of '93.  While I cringe at the thought of a third Terminator
>movie (how could they do it??), if Cameron is behind it, I'm willing to
>hold out some hope that it may be good.
>	Thanks in advance ...
>	
>	- Gord Locke, T2 fan extraordinaire.
>                          
What I have heard (for what it's worth):

I believe that the post you are referring to was a hoax (the poster 
quoted an LA Times article that no one else could verify).
However, I have heard through various mass-media sources that Arnold
has expressed interest in doing T3.  Chances are in Hollywood that if
Arnold wants to do something, he will get to do it.  I heard nothing
about Cameron or anybody else being involved, and it certainly will not
be out in the summer of '93.

So in other words:  Maybe, but not for a couple of years at least.


-- 
Don Dianetti  --  SUNY at Buffalo  --  dianetti@acsu.buffalo.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------