From: DENNIS_@ncsu.edu (DGA)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Saved by the gun
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:15:05 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <rktr+sm@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
#From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
#Subject: Re: Saved by the gun
#Date: 3 Jan 93 03:38:24 GMT
#jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) writes:
#
### backs on the owner, he pulled what looked like a 9 mm automatic and 
##  ^^^^^
### killed all 4.  He appeared to know what he was doing, discharging 6
### shots in a little over 3 seconds.  
#
##I have a problem with this, at least as presented here.  If they were leaving, 
##I do not personally feel deadly force was needed at the point they turned 
##thier  backs.  Unless the fact that they were mexican made them fair game.
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is a racist remark and an insult to everyone that participates in this 
group.  As noted below, they were robbers, the fact that they were mexican 
is of no importance. 

 
#That fact that they were robbers made them fair game, of course.  They were
#not turning to leave, not that it matters.  The store owner saved
#society the expense of trying and incarcerating the punks and probably
#put an early end to a crime spree.  Good shootin' in my book.

I totally agree.  This was not a doubtful situation.  The perps WERE 
armed robbers.  No question.  No possible case of mistaked identity.  No 
possible case of mistaked intent.  When they pulled guns on the store owner 
they became fair game.  Would it have been better for him to allow them to 
leave to rob again.  It sounds great to trust in the system to bring 
justice.  It sounds great to everyone except the subsequent victims of 
criminals that are not stopped.  I am sure that if Mr. De Arras knew that he 
or someone he loved would have been gunned down by the criminals as they 
made their escape, or pulled their next job, his attitude toward the 
situation would be different.

### He fell asleep after raping the woman.  She got loose from her chains,
### got his gun and killed him.  Police say there will be no charges filed.
### 
#
##I guess stress and shock were in play, here, but again, on the surface, she  
##should not have shot and killed him if she apparently had the chance to leave.   
#
#Of course she should have killed him.  If it takes claiming stress and 
#shock to slip past the system (not necessary here but in some places,
#apparently), so be it.  The fact remains that she killed a rapist in the
#act and again saved us the expence of jailing him and then letting 
#him out to do it again.  

Right again.  Should the next woman he terrorized and raped kill him, or 
perhaps the next.  Perhaps subsequent victims would eventually get lucky and 
the guy would get caught, or before she breathed her last, one of his 
victims would get the bastard after he had applied deadly force to her.

Get real, the system has been so totally distorted by years of pro-criminal 
courts that many unvictimized people actually believe that putting the 
rights of criminals above the safety of society is somehow honorable and 
helpful to society.  Even if the perps in the above cases had been brought 
to "justice", how long would society have been safe from them?  A few years 
at best.

We live in a situation now where defending yourself and your family is 
criminal.  The Lone Ranger would have pulled many years in jail for all of 
those times he foiled robberies and kidnappings.  Can anyone even imagine 
the civil rights cases that would have been brought by orgainzed 
crime against the FBI and other law enforcement in the '30's.  We have 
rendered ourselves defenseless against anyone willing to commit crime by 
violence.  That scares the H out of me!  Not only can the police not 
protect me and mine, they are charged with making sure I can't protect 
myself.

There are a lot of things that can be done which will help society, better 
education, head start programs, and more.  Letting violent criminals 
live to destroy more lives isn't going to help anyone but the criminals and 
they don't deserve it.

DGA

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Dressed for Rape