From: milton@PROBITAS.CS.UTAS.EDU.AU ((Simon Milton))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Love & Christianity
Date: 7 Nov 92 14:57:53 GMT
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              Ewanco" at Nov 5, 92 10:19 pm

Hi everybody,

  In           article          <199211041645.AA15787@caritas.cotdazr.org>
  zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG ((Gordon C.  Zaft)) writes:

  Well, homosexual acts hurt the person involved by  putting  him  in  the
  state of mortal sin, thereby alienating him from God and making his soul
  spiritually dead. As for society, society is hurt by mortal sins of this
  kind  because  it  encourages  and  leads  others  into  mortal sin (and
  potentially their condemnation).

  Martin Barry:  No, that won't do.  It's an entirely  circular  argument:
  "why  are homosexual acts sinful?  Because they hurt the person.  How do
  they hurt the person?  By leading them into sin."

  Eric:  What Gorden I think neglected to mention  is  that  homosexuality
  leads one into _further_ sin.  Take Jeffrey Dahmer.

Why should we take Jeffery Dahmer as a typical example?  He obviously is
not.

  Eric:  A man who  struggled  with  homosexual  inclinations,  though  he
  probably  felt guilt for them.  Nevertheless he indulged in them.  It is
  very possible that it was by this indulgence that he  because  more  and
  more depraved, so that he desired to kill and eat his victims.

What  would  you say then about heterosexuals who are serial killers?  I
presume that there are a  lot  more  heterosexual  serial  killers  than
homosexual   serial   killers  simply  because  there  are  a  lot  more
heterosexuals around than homosexuals.  Isn't bad logic fun!!!  :-)

  Eric:  One seemingly minor sin led him into other sins, which eventually
  caused his downfall. I am not saying that homosexuality will necessarily
  lead you into cannibalism or the depravity of Jeffrey Dahmer.

Really?

  Eric:  But I know homosexuals who saw very clearly that by indulging  in
  their  inclinations,  it  led  them  to  more  terrible  and frightening
  inclinations that they weren't about to accept as good.

I know homosexuals who see  clearly  that  by  NOT  indulging  in  their
inclinations they leave themselves open to commit other sins.

  Eric:  Retreating  from indulging in homosexual inclinations pulled them
  away from the abyss of more terrible sins.  If you think  my  comparison
  with  Jeffrey  Dahmer  is  ridiculous, believe me, there are homosexuals
  which are frightened by Jeffrey Dahmer's case because it mirrors exactly
  what seems to be going on in their own soul.

You haven't answered why!

  Martin:  Can you come up with a better case as to how exactly homosexual
  acts harm their protagonists?  Note that this is  a  different  question
  from  "Does  the  bible  proscribe  homosexual  acts?" and from "Has the
  Church constantly proscribed homosexual acts?"

  Eric:  Case studies show the  psychological,  emotional,  and  spiritual
  damage suffered by homosexuals who indulge their inclinations.  It leads
  to despair and a desire that can never be satisfied.

This is simply wrong. What case studies?  BTW, you mentioned desire, not
me.

  Eric: Homosexuals are almost never happy,

Oh yes ...  I agree (Sarcasm mode on)

  Eric:  and  I  don't  believe  these negative things are entirely due to
  societal influences.  The answer  is  not  "accepting  your  lifestyle."
  Homosexuals  tend always to be deeply wounded individuals with tormented
  souls; the more they indulge, the worse it becomes.

Eric, this is not so. Homosexuals do not tend to be deeply wounded.  The
more  pressure  that  society exerts on an individual to conform, however,
the more you might expect that individual to BE hurt.

  Eric:  I believe that homosexuals can only find peace by  rejecting  the
  homosexual lifestyle (i.e.  homosexual sex) and living either celibately
  or in a marital relationship with a member of the opposite sex, if  that
  is possible.  (For some, it is; others are revolted by the thought.)

Eric,  I'm  sorry  to find I don't agree with you - I am revolted by the
concept of marrying a member of the opposite sex, but regard with  equal
horror  the  thought of being forced to lead a celibate life.  Your idea
that a "homosexual lifestyle" equates  to  "homosexual  sex"  is  simply
wrong.  Whether  a  union of two people is not naturally fertile because
they are of the same gender does not degrade the quality of  the  loving
relationship they have.

Cheers, Simon

  Gordon's sig.:>He who hates vices hates mankind.

Hmmm...
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