HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

When we return from a flying vacation, I let my wife drive precisely so
I won't attempt to "fly" our van. :-)
--
Steve Wolf				PHONE: (303) 229-2088
Hewlett-Packard				UUCP:  hplabs!fc.hp.com!woof
Fort Collins, CO			ARPA:  woof@fc.hp.com

That flap lever really cuts down on ground speed...
From: seymour@milton.u.washington.edu (Richard Seymour)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: "remain clear of the ARSA..."
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:10:06 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Jul23.135626.9855@athena.mit.edu> aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson) writes:
(first Mark Rowe's comment:)
>>Certainly an ARSA is among those areas "in which air traffic control is
>>exercised" (I think this is synonymous with "controlled airspace"), and
>>"remain clear of the ARSA" certainly would constitute an instruction.
>>Looks like a pretty tight case to me.
>
>Ah, but according to this argument the instruction to remain clear of the
>ARSA would not apply until the aircraft was actually *inside* the ARSA. :)
>
>So, I propose that it would be legal for the aircraft to penetrate the
>ARSA, at which point you must comply with any instructions (which would
>probably be to get the heck out).  Anyone care to validate my theory? :)

the FAR/AIm is -very- clear about this, to the extent of presenting examples
of the radio communication to expect:
if you're outside, you -cannot- enter until "two-way" communication is 
established... which ATC -avoids- by saying "aircraft calling TinselTown,
 standby"... by -not- repeating your numbers, they have -not- established 
  2-way communication.  therefore you cannot enter.
Once they -do- deign to state your numbers ("Barnburner 123GP, Tinseltown")
then you -may- enter the ARSA, -unless- they NOW specifically state "do not".
Helpful/careful ARSA controllers will usually try to be -very specific- 
and will say "aircraft calling Tinseltown, standby and do not enter the ARSA"
--dick
From: kck@pacnw.intel.com (Kevin Kahn)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: "remain clear of the ARSA..."
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:16:52 GMT
Reply-To: kck@pacnw.intel.com
Organization: Intel Corp. Platform Architecture Center

In article <1992Jul28.185723.23151@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com>,
mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com (Mark Rowe) writes:
> the ARSA.  Is this a possible scenario?  Or has this dodge already occured
> to ATC resulting in such responses as "Aircraft calling Podunk, Podunk
> altimeter is 2997" or "34A, remain clear of the ARSA, Podunk altimeter 2997."

Actually, I have heard Portland approach answer non-specific calls with the
remain clear . . .  E.g., PDX approach Cessna 1234A, request.  34A remain
clear of the ARSA, say request.
Kevin Kahn
Intel Corp.


Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
Subject: Re: the surly bonds of earth
Reply-To: burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
Organization: Teknekron Software Systems. Inc.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:50:10 GMT


I'm pleased with the number of people who could readily post the words
to "High Flight".  I doubt Magee could have dreamed how many people his
poem would touch.  How many of us get to leave such a legacy?

-- 

	Jim Burke	"Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!"
	Teknekron Software Systems		... burke@tss.com
  	phone:(415) 617-2432			... uunet!tekbspa!burke
From: mzg@eagle.NSD.3Com.COM (Mike Gordon)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Take-off speed
Date: 31 Jul 92 13:44:43 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: 3Com Corporation

What is the take-off speed of an L-1011 or other type of wide body jet?
More specificlly, The speed of which the L-1011 that aborted take-off on 
Thursday was traveling when it aborted the take-off.

Thanks

Mike Gordon
From: shj@ultra.com (Steve Jay {Ultra Unix SW Mgr})
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: What's in earth-inductor compass?
Date: 31 Jul 92 04:38:18 GMT
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies

In <ritter.712258892@claude> ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter) writes:

>Actually, Lindbergh wrote two books about that flight.  The first, 'We',
>was dashed off quickly after the flight to meet a sponsoring publisher's
>deadline.  Lindbergh may have had ghost-writing help with that one.
>'The Spirit of St. Louis' was written over a period of several years
>(WWII sort of got in the way), and published after the war (maybe in
>the fifties?).  It was written because Lindbergh was not happy with
>'We', and wanted to write a better book.

If "We" was ghostwritten, I hope the ghost wasn't paid.  "We" is very
badly written, IMHO.  "The Sprit..." is MUCH better.  I was very impressed
with Lindbergh's writing style in the later book.

I have 1st edition copies of both books.  I found them a few years ago
in a used bookstore in the Milwaukee airport (interesting place for
a bookstore).

Steve Jay
shj@ultra.com  ...ames!ultra!shj
Ultra Network Technologies / 101 Dagget Drive / San Jose, CA 95134 / USA
(408) 922-0100 x130	"Home of the 1 Gigabit/Second network"
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Active noise-canceling headsets
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:55:39 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

I've often wondered about the stall warning horn and other intentional
noisemakers in the cockpit.  Actually, if I were to sue, I'd hit up
the manufacturer for not routing the alert sounds through the audio
panel (they gave me a headset jacket, they could assume I was going
to use it)  :-)...
From: PJERN@CHGVMIC1.VNET.IBM.COM
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Engines turn or passengers swim
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:09:39 GMT


 IN Message-ID: <1992Jul23.212507.23292@EE.Stanford.EDU>
 Anthony Siegman writes:

>   Except of course for the famous case, discussed in this group a
>year or so, in which a mechanic doing maintenance on a United Airlines
>trijet under some kind of confusing circumstances made the same minor
>mistake -- something involving a missing O-ring for an oil plug -- on
>all three engines, and the plane, in passenger service, subsequently
>lost _all three engines_, a significant distance out _over water_,
>somewhere off Miami.

Ahem.

Try Eastern Airlines.  and the engines weren't worth spit after
they were done with them, but they DID get them back.

A close friend of mine was a maintenance supervisor at Eastern
in Miami back then.  It wasn't a pretty scene, according to him.
(Fortunately, he was on vacation at the time of the incident....)

Phil Jern
From: aero@europa.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: 182 Stalling characteristics
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:49:26 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys) writes:

>The lowering of the main gear appears to allow the wing to keep flying
>longer in ground effect (if you believe in ground effect).  Anyway, even
>Richard Collins believes it as he wrote a review of the Skylane in the
>February 1977 issue of _Flying_.

Pardon me for asking, but why would someone not believe in ground effect?
Having not flown or flown in very many different types of planes, I don't
have much of an idea how different planes act in ground effect but, as
an student of aerospace engineering, I KNOW that it exists.  The flow over
a wing close to the ground will always be different than that over a wing
in free air.  For most configurations, the wing in ground effect will be
at a higher effective angle of attack.  This will cause it to produce more
lift.  The plane in ground effect can rotate and lift off at a speed too
slow to fly in free air.  As the influence of the ground decreases, the
effective alpha decreases, and the plane loses lift and often crashes.

I'm interested to know exactly how lowering the gear affects the 182's
stall characteristics; I missed the first post.
--------
Jonathan A. Bishop
aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu

"Yippee!  That may have been a small one for Neil,
 but it was a big one for me."
                            --Pete Conrad
From: xde@xtxde.UUCP (Dave Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: QANTAS - U.S. Carrier warnings.
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 20 Jul 92 15:50:12 CDT
Organization: Not

In article <75983@ut-emx.uucp> lihan@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Bruce G. Bostwick) writes:
> 
> Now, the message itself is another matter.  Poor judgment, in my
> (admittedly civilian) opinion..
> -- 
> <BGB>
> lihan@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu        /     "I can't complain,
> (really Bruce Bostwick)        /   but sometimes I still do"
> from the great state of TEXAS /         --Joe Walsh--

 I don't see what the big deal is. They were conducting an exercise, and
to play up the realism, whoever said that message did what he was supposed
to if a unknown aircraft was approaching. He just said it on the wrong
frequency. They are just practicing for the times when that aircraft might
be hostile...
-- 

   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
   - Dave Evans   ...!vpnet.chi.il.us!xtxde!xde - Insert something here -
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: sims@sauron.msfc.nasa.gov (Herb Sims)
Subject: HP48 flight library
Keywords: hp48
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:12:18 GMT

DOes anyone know of or use an library for the HP48 calulator that turns it
into a flight computer?

THanks in advance..
Herb
sims@sauron.msfc.nasa.gov



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MSFC/NASA/EB33				
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From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Ramp checks--unreasonable search
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:24:55 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

To what point does this "all information possible" get silly.  For
example, if you look in the back of the AFD you will find all sorts
of changes to the charts.  Most are additions of obstructions.
However, some are fairly important (not that you wouldn't have noticed
this other ways) like the fact that even though Manassas got a tower
before these charts came out it's still shown as an uncontrolled
field.  Should I be coloring the symbol blue on my chart and drawing
in all these upside down V's?  The other amusing one is that one
of the Victor airways is shown as using the 428 degree radial off
one of the VOR's.  Should I be carrying the Class 2 notam book around
in addition to the AFD?

-Ron
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:12543 eunet.aviation:6
From: bowen@prg.ox.ac.uk (Jonathan Bowen)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,eunet.aviation
Subject: Airline Safety Review
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:18:54 GMT
Reply-To: Jonathan.Bowen@prg.oxford.ac.uk (Jonathan Bowen)
Organization: Programming Research Group, Oxford University, UK

Readers may be interested in the Airline Safety Review in the current
issue of Flight International:

    David Learmount, Airline Safety Review,
    Flight International, no 4238, vol 142, 22-28 July 1992, pp30-33.

This focuses in human factors and suggests that pilot error is the
major or only cause in most airliner fatal accidents during the first 6
months of this year. It concentrates in the latest A320 accident and
mentions the likely 3000ft/min v. 3 degrees confusion in the descent
rate. It also presents a chart of the number of dead and number of
fatal accidents during the last decade. This year is slightly down on
the average. Finally, a list of fatal and non-fatal accidents, with
brief circumstances, is included.


--
Jonathan Bowen, <Jonathan.Bowen@comlab.ox.ac.uk>
Oxford University Computing Laboratory.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ref@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (r.earl.fenley)
Subject: Re: Hot air balloons without fuel
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:36:25 GMT

From article <Jul.22.10.28.11.1992.19227@pilot.njin.net>, by ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie):
>> A coworker of mine just took a ride in a hot air balloon flown
>> by a commercial outfit.  We were talking about it and the
>> question came up about what happens if the burner fails for
>> some reason.
> 
> I'd suspect it's a nusiance but probably less tramatic than
> an engine failure in a plane.  The burner doesn't run continually
> anyhow and I suspect that it's response time is pretty slow anyhow.
> 
> -Ron
It can be more than a nusiance.
When there is no fire, the balloon, begins to descend, finally
reaching "terminal descent rate" which is in the range of 1000 to 1300
feet per minute, depending upon the weight being carried and the distance
above ground. At this point more air is going in the mouth of the envelope
than is escaping elsewhere.  At that point it is acting like a parachute
with no control of where you are landing/hitting.
The major danger is hitting power lines and being fried, or hitting something
else above ground level (buildings or trees) and falling out of the
basket if it turns over.
I've been flying for 14 years and I have never got myself in a situation
where I have ran out of fuel, nor has my pilot light(s) ever needed to be
re-lit.
I have done a terminal descent from 10,200 feet while training.

Earl Fenley
N2303H

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh)
Subject: Re: Airshow Report
Keywords: Frecce Tricolori, U-2, Gee Bee
Reply-To: venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh)
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown NJ
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 19:23:15 GMT

In article <5146@transfer.stratus.com> spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker) writes:
>In article <ritter.712245382@claude>, ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter) writes:
>
>> (stuff deleted)  The Gee-Bee then flew a short
>> segment.  This is a replica of either the R-1 or the R-2 (I forget
>> which, although they announced it at the show).  The narrator (the
>
>It's the R-2.  Can't wait to see it fly in only... 4 days and counting.
>

Five days. As far as I know it is *not* flying on the opening day, the only
day I will be there..sigh.

venky
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: billc@pegasus.ATT.COM (Bill Carpenter)
Subject: Re: FAR, Part 93, Subpart K ?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:06:58 GMT

jouvelot> For a more practical matter, didn't anyone land VFR at JFK
jouvelot> to pick up someone arriving on an international flight?  How
jouvelot> tough is it?  Do you have to use the Automatic Landing
jouvelot> Reservation System when not on an IFR plan? What about fees?

I have no firsthand experience with this, but some JFK controllers
talked at a safety seminar I attended.  The general drift of things
was that VFR flights were sincerely welcome to ask for just about
anything and could usually be easily accomodated if it was not rush
hour in the NY TCA.  During rush hour, they'd just as soon you not
show up.  But, they repeatedly stressed if you came along off-peak,
they'd be happy to help.

If I were you, I'd call one of the JFK FBOs and get their opinion.  I
believe JFK has significantly cheaper fees during non-rush as well; an
FBO ought to know the story on that.
-- 
  Bill                      William_J_Carpenter@ATT.COM        or
  (908) 576-2932            attmail!bill   or   att!pegasus!billc
  AT&T Bell Labs / AT&T EasyLink Services               LZ 3C-207
From: ronnie@eddie.mit.edu (Ron Schnell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Travelog: Buzzing New York
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:46:55 GMT
Organization: MIT, Cambridge, MA

Just another angle to add:

   Another way to do this is the "inside the TCA" route.  NY approach is
more than happy to give you a hudson tour as long as LGA isn't westbound,
and it isn't "rush hour".  I usually phone first just to let them know
that I'll be requesting it, and that makes them even more happy to
accommodate.  Of course this means you are at 2,000 instead of < 1,000,
but I actually like the view better.  Same tour, including the circling of the
statue.

#Ron
(ronnie@eddie.mit.edu)
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Handheld antenna and otherwise
Date: 24 Jul 92 06:31:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Jul24.063106.2460
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

Another reason that external antennas work much better than "rubber duckies"
is that the handheld is usually operated inside the aircraft.  If the plane
has a metal skin or even frame, it will shield the transmission and
reception.  This is a significant effect - try listening to your handheld
in a car - and notice how much better it works near windows - in the
plane you are usually trying to transmit to a point below you, and there is
usually airframe in the way unless the radio is placed way up in the
windscreen area .

We have conducted experiments with range and gotten over 25 miles from a
Icom in a plane into an external antenna to a ground (FBO) station.
Rarely over 5 mile without the external antenna..


-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                 (503)-684-1984 hm & work
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!
From: mjd@mm.ovro.caltech.edu (MARK DEAZLEY)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: INFO WANTED on STREAK SHADOW Kitplane
Keywords: KITPLANE STREAK SHADOW LARON
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:00:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


    I'm thinking of purchasing a kit airplane known as "THE STREAK
 SHADOW" which is being marketed by Laron Aviation Technologies of
 Clovis NM. This kitplane originated and has been in use over in the
 UK for some years now, under the name "The SHADOW" or something like
 that.

    I'm looking for any feedback that anybody in the US, UK or
 elsewhere can provide. In particular I'm looking for info on:

    - Structural/Corrosion Problems?

    - Flying Qualities?

    - Construction Details ... Pluses and Minuses?

    - Opinions on support from Laron?

    - Resale Values?

    - Cross Country Capabilities?

    - Any info you feel pertinent.

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    For those of you that are unfamiliar here some stats:

    Hi-Wing Tricycle, Boom Mounted Tail, Ceconite Wing, Composite
    Enclosed Fuselage with glider style canopy, Two Seat, Dual Controls.

    Powered by Rotax 582LC.      Empty Wt = 388 lbs.
    Wing Span = 28 ft.           Gross Wt = 900 lbs.
    Wing Area = 140 sq ft.       Prop 52 in x 55 in 3 blade.

    Vne = 140 mph.  Max Level Speed = 120MPH. 

    Cruise @ 80% = 100 mph @ 4 gph, 
    range 360 mi, 646 with extended range tank.

    Cruise @ 50% = 75 mph @ 2.5 gph, 
    range 426 mi, 765 with extended range tank.

                        SOLO              DUAL
    Climb rate:      1700-1800 fpm    1100-1300 fpm    <--- *WOW*!
    Takeoff Run:     50-75 ft.        100-150 ft.
    Landing Roll:    75-150 ft.       100-200 ft.

    Ceiling: 27000 ft+

    Kit Price: 15,500 includes engine, instruments. You buy the paint.

    Laron Phone #: (505)-356-3767      Info kit = $10 (I think...)

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

   Please EMAIL me with any comments/info. I'll summarize and repost
   to rec.aviation.

                                                Thanks...
                                                   MJD

*******************************************************************************
* Mark J. Deazley ... Owens Valley Radio Observatory .... (619)-938-2075 x119 *
* INTERNET: MDeazley@ovro.caltech.edu ................... (619)-872-4386 Home *
*              "Throw the *WHOLE* Congress out and start over..."             *
*******************************************************************************
From: amm@NeXT.COM (Alan M. Marcum)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Active noise-canceling headsets
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:28:36 GMT
Reply-To: amm@NeXT.COM (Alan M. Marcum)

Dave Allen writes
> Just got a monthly newletter with an article about a gear-up landing.
> The pilot got a runway change ... and didn't get the gear
> down. He was using an active noise-canceling headset....
> he's suing the headset manufacturer. The author's point was that
> there's just too much that we need to hear in an aircraft

'Course, one might argue that the gear horn's tone should be
wired into the intercom system, which any prudent pilot using
ANR headsets ought to have installed.......
--
Alan M. Marcum
NeXT Tech Support
amm@NeXT.COM
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys)
Subject: Re: C-130 in the ice
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 15:57:26 GMT

In article <l7e48bINNojm@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) writes:
>
>It was a Navy plane.

You sure, Geoff?  My colleagues at the National Science Foundation tell
me it was an NSF C-130 supporting International Geophysical Year research;
NSF just didn't have the money to repair it and left it on the ice for
a number of years till they got an appropriation to recover it.

Dan Masys
masys@nlm.nih.gov


From: joell@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Joel Larner)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:18:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Questions about airspace incursions/Mode C
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

I am not in the know enough to answer your questions, however I will
provide one piece of advice: file a NASA ASRS report!!!  What you 
did may be OK, or not produce any follow up, but either way you will
cover yourself with the ASRS report if it is mailed within 10 days.

Good Luck,

-------------------------------------------------------
Joel Larner - Hewlett Packard, Greeley Storage Division
CAP SAR Pilot            email:  joell@hpgrjq.gr.hp.com
                           CAP:  Pikes Peak 293
                    In The Air:  N182H
From: pas@wupost.wustl.edu (Paul Schoening)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: FBOs at Flying Cloud, Mpls. MN??
Date: 31 Jul 1992 10:06:27 -0500
Organization: Washington University in Saint Louis, MO USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: informatics.wustl.edu

I would like to rent an airplane (172 or Warrior) out of Flying Cloud
airport in Minneapolis, MN.  I would appreciate suggestions of 
rental outfits and telephone numbers.  

Thanks.


Paul Schoening
Division of Medical Informatics
Washington University School of Medicine
St. Louis, MO  63110
(314) 362-4875
pas@informatics.wustl.edu

Newsgroups: rec.aviation