HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Keeping in mind that this is AmeriKKKa
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:30:13 GMT
	<14ktknINNgtu@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Jul23.133541.4901@nynexst.com>
	<23JUL199218205901@vxcrna.cern.ch>
	<1992Jul24.012847.19203@oakhill.sps.mot.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak) writes:

   [Re: Judy's discrimination against Europeans as marriage partners]

   OK, even if I make the **ASSUMPTION** that that is what Judy was saying (and
   I'm being very generous to you here), what do people have to say about this
   profile?

					      Heritage of Americans
    Work with whomever you want to         -- Asian, European, African, Aboriginal
    Make friends with whomever you want to -- Asian, European
    Have lovers with whomever you want to  -- Asian, European
    But marry                              -- Asian, European

   Look familiar to anyone?  This is the profile of a lot of Asian and Asian
   American people I've met or known.  A *LOT* OF THEM.

   [subsequent variant profiles deleted]

It's worth noting that there's a difference between acting a
particular way and having a whole theory for acting a particular way.
Lots of people with the behavior patterns above are unaware (possibly
self-deceiving) that they do it.  However, Judy is very conscious of
the way she chooses to discriminate, and argues that other people should
follow her example.

I suppose that one could admire her for her honesty and unwillingness
to live the unexamined life, but at least with people who are
unconscious of their discrimination you can get them to re-examine
their position by pointing out their behavior (I'm thinking of Alan
Hu's story of how his roommate asked him why he was only interested in
Caucasian women).  

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lchsu@cayley.waterloo.edu (Leon C. Hsu)
Subject: Re: chinese-cu
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:17:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.032114.17651@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>in the future.  She also tells me that one of her relatives (uncle, I think)
>was locked in prison by the KMT Chinese-cu gov't on Taiwan; the "crime"
>was daring to voice his opinion.
>
>Ahhh.  The "wonders" of Chinese-cu thought...

Yeah ... like this never happens anywhere else in the world. All the other
strife and hardship that goes on is also because of us yellow baboons.
That's right ... anyone ever wonder how richard nixon got elected? WE
pulled it off. All along we had people like Hitler convinced there was
a great Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. Little did he know 
that it was really us. All us chinese-cu baboons. By the the year 2001
you'll all be subjugated by the great yellow horde. Hell ... we were
even responsible for the Bay of Pigs. And every little earthquake in
California is controlled from right here in my home ... one push of a 
button, a couple mouse clicks anbd KABOOM! There goes California! HAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Get with it Dwight ... the capacity to do evil is a human characteristic
shared by ALL of us. White, yellow, brown, black, red, orange, pink,
purple and even pokadot.

-leon.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Korean Views on Race (Re: LA Times. 7-13-92 [long])
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 22:25:02 GMT

In article <l7e3amINN7us@news.bbn.com> ahsiung@labs-n.bbn.com (Anita Hsiung) writes:
>Mike Fester writes:
>>Dwight Joe writes:
>>
>>>citizenship.   Japan almost won't do it.  Even the USA wouldn't concede to such
>>>outrageous demands.  But the Korean gov't is insisting that the Japanese
>>
>>The US DOES in fact recognize dual citizenship, if the other nation recognizes
>>it as well. 
>
>The United States does not recognize dual citizenship.  It is stated
>very clearly when you apply for naturalization that you give up all
>privileges and rights you had from your country of origin.  They
>emphasize that again at the actual oath-taking.

Just imagine what Americans would be thinking if Koreans and the
Korean gov't do to us what they've been doing (actually, provoking)
in Japan.

Here's an interesting scenario.  Groups of Koreans mouth off
about how American society is unfair and how the immigration laws are
unfair.  (These are the _SAME_ immigration laws that are applied
to everyone--Irishmen, Africans, Japanese, etc., and Koreans.)  But,
the Koreans refuse to accept American citizenship; they don't want
to "go against" their true motherland:  Korea.  Then, they sue in
federal court to demand that the American gov't give them the right to 
vote.  (They did just that in one prefecture in Japan.)  Lo and
behold!  The Korean gov't comes to the USA to demand that we
give the Koreans who have refused American citizenship the right to
vote.

Just imagine what we Americans would be thinking about these mouthy
Koreans who have refused American citizenship.  (There is _no_
parallel between Koreans in Japan and African-Americans in the USA.
The latter _are_ citizens and _want_ to be citizens of the land
in which they live.  When they became citizens, they abided
by the same laws of citizenry to which everyone else--including
Asian-American--was subjected.)

I challenge someone to produce 1 single case of a Korean who
wanted to become a Japanese citizen and fulfilled the requirements
of citizenship but who was refused citizenship by the Japanese
gov't; all foreigners in Japan are subjected to the same requirements
of citizenship.  I do not know of a single case where a Korean
was disparaged in this way.

(Mr. Fester (fester@island.com) ought to read the inside of his
passport, concerning dual citizenship, before he posts again.)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: judyy@ocf.berkeley.edu (Judy Y. Tseng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: There's racism, and then there's RACISM (was Re: Racial preferences in choosing your mate)
Date: 23 Jul 1992 00:28:00 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: tempest.berkeley.edu
Keywords: racism

In article <1992Jul22.194123.16009@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com writes:

>When I wrote that reply to Gary, I was merely recognizing that the kind of
>attitude he talked about *is* a form or racism.  No way you can get around
>that conclusion.  But I don't automatically feel then that because it is a
<lots of good stuff deleted>

Hey Jim, nothing personal, but racism is the belief that one race is superior
over another. I don't think mongoloids (*cringe*) are _superior_ to
caucasoids. 

The attitude that Gary showed in his post is that race-related political 
and social issues have no relevance whatsoever in our interactions with 
people. I disagree, but does that make me a racist? I don't think so. There's
a difference between being race/ethnicity-conscious and being racist.

Judy

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: Parental Pressure and Interracial Dating
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 23:13:24 GMT

In article <7571@public.BTR.COM> timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee) writes:
>It has been said that asian woman / other man relationships
>are much more common than asian man / other woman relationships.
>
>Could it be due partly to parental pressure in some families?
>I.e. prejudiced parents may be more interested in maintaining the
>"purity" of the side that carries the family name than of the side
>where the family name is not usually carried?

I wouldn't doubt this in some families.  After all you wouldn't want some
non-<parents' race> to have your family name, would you?  :-)  I'd guess
this is especially true with first sons.  (Though my parents already lost
this one. :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: More on Dating
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 03:46:08 GMT

In article <24748@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong) writes:
> In article <14fkgsINN4hr@network.ucsd.edu> hirota@sluggo.sdsc.edu (Bryan Hirota) writes:
> >
> > [ A personal ad from TransPacific: ]
> > 
> >Sucessful Educated Caucasian Executive, 40, non-smoker, attractive,
> >looking for AsiAm, 22-32 to share culture, travel and serious relationship/
> >marriage. Letter with photo please. C511
> 
> Is it just me, or is there no reference to gender in this personal?  One
> might infer from the ages that this person is male.  I still consider it a
> glaring omission (unless the person is bisexual, which I doubt).  I suspect
> "he" equates "Executive" with "male."

     There's only one way to find out: send in your picture!!!!  :-)  :-)
I'd pay good money to see "his" expression if he gets no response from
women, and a stack of guy mug shots.  :-)  :-)

							George

----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: Role reversal
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:32:27 GMT

In article <3631@randvax.rand.org> edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall) writes:
>>Question, class.  Does that sound kind of funny to you?  Coming from an
>>Asian person's mouth, I mean.  Do you think even one white person would
>>actually take a "threat" like that seriously?
>
>I would.  Perhaps "sympathy" is too negative a word for a lot of folks,
>but if the general idea is that making friends is better than making
>enemys, what's wrong with what JJ wrote, or with your re-writing of it?
>
>It is pure pragmatism: if pissing people off works, then do that.

But that's assuming what the original poster wrote was done for the express
purpose of "pissing off" white people.  IMO, that ain't the case.  I mean,
go back to the thread on "Some white males think they're ... to Asian women."
JJ, and only JJ, was the one who *extrapolated* that into "I don't care if
anybody said "ALL" or not, the *NET EFFECT* is the same as saying "ALL."
Therefore, it was the SAME as if you had said "ALL."  And how dare you mean
"ALL" and lose the sympathy of white males because you said this, this may
lead to race war, nuclear holocaust, bleah bleah bleah."  Gimme a break.

If I *really* wanted to write something to piss off some white people here, 
believe me, I could do a hell of a lot "better" job than the original poster.

>If it doesn't, then don't.

Saying the truth about racism in America shouldn't have to "piss" anyone off.
If I lay the news to you straight and you're pissed off, why shoot the
messenger?  If a woman talks about her encounters with sexism in soc.women
or soc.feminist, I don't look at it as an indictment of ALL men, nor do I
go in there and post stuff like "Men are bigger and stronger than you, lady!
You're really losing our sympathy when you write stuff like that.  Piss us
off ONE MORE TIME, and we just might start a 'gender war' against you."

>If you want to look at one as always "sticking up for myself" and the
>other as always "ass kissing", I'd say that you are overly constraining
>yourself.  Step back and see if the label really fits the action before
>jumping to a conclusion.

If someone's fair in his/her assessment of things, it shouldn't be considered
"sticking up for themselves" or "ass-kissing."  If people want to ignore the
reality of racism by always finding weak justifications or saying tired lines
like "Compare that to ancient Chinese-cu culture; that was much, much worse,"
or whatever else, then what else is that but rather blatant ass-kissing?
Most of the stuff written here, IMO, falls between both extremes.

You're right.  It always goes back to what's a fair statement and what's not.
I guess it just means JJ almost never agree on what's "fair."

>Allies come in all colors.  So do enemys.

Touche.

Ed, nice to see you back.  Where the hell were you?  :-)

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse)
Subject: Re: Keeping in mind that this is AmeriKKKa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:48:50 GMT
Organization: Raoul Duke School of Pharmacology and Journalism

In article <rBS-#NC@engin.umich.edu> kamprath@caen.engin.umich.edu (Michael F. Kamprath) writes:
|In article <1992Jul22.202324.12692@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, e199-ac@fornax (Alexander Lee) writes:
|> 
|> In article <23276@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj@alice.att.com, curmudgeon) writes:
|> >While Judy's rhetoric is undoubtedly satisfying, because it sounds
|> >good, it feels good to say all that stuff, and it's PC to beat up
|> >on the good ol' white menace, it misses the simple point that the
|> >ONLY real effect it has is offending whites, instead of making
|> >them sympathetic. 
|> 
|> Your counter-argument to Judy is wholly based on the premise that
|> we are here to please white people, to seek sympathy, and to kiss their
|> white ass.  Well, I for one am getting sick and tired of it.  
|> 
|> If white people persistently decide to descriminate against asians
|> in corportate America, it's just going to back-fire.
|> 
|> 
|
|So what you are saying is that monrities (especially Asian-Americans) have 
|the right to hate, despise, and basically be racist against all whites, no
|matter their beliefs, intentions, or background?
|
|jj@alice.UUCP tried to put it as "this approach is bad because you might
|alienate well intended white folk."  I'll put it another way: What goes
|around comes around (Again and again, it is a closed cycle).  

Or if you are tired of listening to live White males, how about to a
dead White male?  "If you prick us, do we not bleed?  If you tickle us, 
do we not laugh?  If you poison us, do we not die?  And if you wrong us,
shall we not seek revenge?"  (I probably misquoted and definitely 
mispunctuated Mr. Shakespeare.  Someone with the text of 
_The_Merchant_Of_Venice_ at hand (or just with a better memory) might
want to post the correct passage.)

-- 
Gary Tse, tse@Apple.COM			``Out of a misty dream
(408) 862-5452			Our path emerges for a while, then closes
						Within a dream.'' -- E. Dowson
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: Racial Sexual Stereotypes
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:57:54 GMT

In article <23247@alice.att.com> jj@alice.att.com (jj, old curmudgeon) writes:
>Um, what does all this ridicule of Pak and others serve?
>
>(No, Pak, you don't need anyone to defend you, but
>I fail to see the point of all this ridicule.)

Uhh, hey JJ, thanks for your "defense," but it probably wasn't necessary.
I don't recall anybody "ridiculing" me, other than maybe Gary and yourself,
which is ok because it makes me feel like I'm part of the gang here.  :-) :-)

If you're referring to that post where it mentioned "Jim and his SO" going at
it for 30+ minutes at a time, rest assured they were *NOT* talking about me.
I usually conk out at the 5 minute stage (just kidding!!  :-) ).

Anyway, that whole thread is getting rather silly.  Let's stick to the good
stuff, like our old screaming matches.  Or better yet, how about you and I
have some cheese and crackers to tide us over until our next flame war?  :-)
(I'm not lactate-deficient, or whatever that term is.  I can drink a lot of
milk.)

Jim
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Keeping in mind that this is AmeriKKKa
Keywords: knock
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:22:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: oakhill.1992Jul24.152243.20211
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.

In article <1992Jul24.053047.272@mumbo.apple.com> tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
>|OK, then I've made it real easy for you.  Now you can knock every other
>|intertwined pattern I've shown above that has "missing elements" in it.
>|You can knock 2, 3, and 4, [these refer to the different discrination 
>|matrices I have deleted] which I'll bet covers a surprisingly large
>|chunk of the people I've encountered in my life, and probably many others,
>|too.  Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if at least half of this newsgroup
>|thinks this way.  Well, are you going to do it?
>
>I will.  It is racist to disqualify anyone as a potential co-worker, 
>friend, or mate on the basis of that person's race.  

Gary, I wasn't really referring to *you* per se, since like you said, you've
commented very fairly on this issue.  Your stance has been consistent, and I
commend you for even bringing up this issue in the first place.

What about some of the others?  :-)

>Nope.  In fact, I was just in a rather protracted discussion against
>racial preference in people's selection of a mate.  Against preference 
>for mates of *any* race, mind you.

Yup, you've been fair.  See my last comment.

>Checking my archives,

I see this "disease" is catching?  :-) :-)

>James had written in <1992Jun25.053518.2424@oakhill.sps.mot.com>:
>#As for you, Gary, do you ever want to talk about anything else here except
>#trying to accuse everybody else of racism?  
>
>Selective amnesia?

Well, considering I wrote that comment on June 25, and you started this thread
on July 20, unless you think I can see one month into the future, my comment
stands.  *At the time I wrote it*, I thought the words were valid.  Besides,
it was rather sarcastic in tone and wasn't really meant to be taken literally
down to the word so much as to make a point.  But that's ok if you want to
take it that way.  Today, I wouldn't write that comment.

>Nope.  All those different forms are discriminatiory and racist.  In 
>fact, whenever the discussion allows it, I try to make my complaints 
>of racism general.

Good for you.  (That was not a sarcastic comment.)

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: c60a-zg@volga.Berkeley.EDU (Martin Guerrero-LabA)
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 06:07:54 GMT

Trivia:
  Name of Country: Philippines
     based on the name of King Philip.
  What are people from the Philippines called?
     FILIPINOS.
  Then why do I always or sometimes hear/see the word Filipino spelled
     Pilipino?
	I believe, Pilipino is a more politically correct way (sorry.  I
        wasn't able to find a better word for politically correct).  
	Supposedly, the Philippine language has no F.  The letter F was
	probably influenced by the Colonial powers in the Philippine's
        past.  

   What do you use?  I suppose it doesn't really matter. However, people
   do have preferences.

  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: masahiro@tgevax.life.uiuc.edu (Masahiro Kono)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:58:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: tgevax.masahiro.711928734
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak) writes:

>I really feel that a lot of times, the question "Where are you from?" directed
>to an AA person is just a lazy way of asking "What's your ethnicity?"

But not always. Wouldn't you look kind of silly if someone asked THE
QUESTION and answered Japan/China/Korea/etc. and then they start asking
you to translate text because now they think you really are from Asia? :-)
So I'm being silly; sue me. But alot of times when Mr/Ms. Whiteperson asks me
THE QUESTION he/she really wants to know what state/city/region I'm from. In
my experience (for better or worse) the most frequent people asking
THE QUESTION, but meaning ethnicity are foreign persons, especially
Asians. 

When an Occidental-American wants to know my ethnic origin in the so-called
lazy way of asking, he/she asks, "What are you?" which is pretty much
the same type question they ask other Caucasoids when they want to know
his/her Euro-origins. Anyone else experience it this way?

[stuff deleted]

>OK, a few more comments.  Yes, I know a "typical" white or black person who
>doesn't have a "foreign" accent doesn't get asked that question with the
>hidden meaning attached to it.  But so what?  Maybe I'm just getting older
>and mellower (doubtful), but among life's inconveniences caused by race,
>this one's pretty low on my scale.  Actually, like Huy said, it can be a
>nice conversation opener.

Being from Nashville, TN has been more of a conversation topic in my
life (when conversing in Boston and Illinois). The South is such a foreign
place for those Yankees! :-) :-)

-Masahiro Kono (m-kono@uiuc.edu)
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Date: 21 Jul 1992 20:20:36 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University


Have any of you read today's "Dear Abby"?  Some time ago, someone asked,

[begin quote]

"How can you tell the difference between people from the following countries:
<list of SE Asian countries>?"

[end quote]

Actually, I don't think you can tell what country someone's from by just
looks.  Had I been born in France, I wouldn't look much different from what
I do now.  But we know what he meant, right?

Today's column has a follow up:

[begin quote]

...I have a story that will make your correspondent feel much better about
their inability to tell one Asian from another....

...Ask them--most of them are proud to tell you and will not take offense.

To this, Abby replies, "Most, but not all.  One reader wrote to say that
she (out of curiosity) approached a gentleman with Asian features and said,
"My friend and I have a bet on.  Where are you from?"

The gentleman replied, "Cincinnati."

[end quote]

I'm thinking of writing a response to this.  Something like:

Referring to the Asian-looking gentleman who replied, "Cincinnati," when
asked where he was from, perhaps he was not offended.  After all, he did
answer the question correctly.

The person who asked might have offended him in two ways:

(1) Asking for the purposes of a bet.  What if someone asked you, "Are you
male or female?  My friend and I disagree and we have a bet."?

(2) In asking, "Where are you from?" rather than asking his ethnicity
directly, he was implying that people who look Asian are not Americans.
If you ask a Caucasian, "Where are you from?" and he says, "Cincinnati,"
you would accept his answer rather than looking for an answer such as
"Poland" or "Switzerland."

No matter how many generations an Asian's family have been in this country,
most people will not think of him as a "real American."  For example,
Katarina Witt looks more "American" than Kristi Yamaguchi.  With the image
of Asians as foreigners comes distrust, particularly in times of war and
times of recession.  Their loyalty is questioned....

I cannot think of a good ending, though.  If anyone has suggestions on how
to improve this, please tell me.  Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american