HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ze@carson.u.washington.edu (Jose Magalhaes)
Subject: Re: about ET: to indonesians (others also welcome)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:03:55 GMT

               >Ummm.., ohhh, how about an idea that the integration          
               >might become even smoother if all the Portugees' are     
                                                      ^^^^^^^^^ 
     What is a Portugee? The same as an "Indonee"?
 
               >massacred as well? Ups.. , no I am joking, it would   
               >turn out to make the rest of the world to stand against 
               >Indonesia.

     I thought the world already is against the violation of human rights
in Indonesia. No need to kill "Portugees" or more "Indonees" for that!

	       >
               >Wisnu Hendradjit

     Have a good one!
-Ze' Magalhaes
From: gerrit@isgtec.com (Gerrit Visser)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: Indonesian Rest.
Date: 9 Nov 92 15:31:33 GMT
Distribution: world
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Steve Frampton (frampton@vicuna.ocunix.on.ca) wrote:
: There is a restaurant called simply, "Indonesian Restaurant" (or something
: along those lines) in metro Toronto, Ontario, Canada, right downtown on
: Yonge Street.  The phone number is (416) 967-0697 -- perhaps someone in
: that area would be willing to phone and find out the exact address and
: some select menu items with prices?  I've been there, they make Rendang
: Sapi to *die* for!
: 
: Salam...
It is at 678 Yonge Street, I didn't know it existed, I always pass that
area in the subway :-).

The other two which I know of are the Garuda, Eglinton Ave West of
Avenue Road and the Bali, Avenue Rd. and Lawrence Ave.  The Bali is by
far the best of the two, it has been around for at least 25 years now.

The Garuda seemed to be re-heating some of its food the last 3 times I
went there. (A distinct grainy look to dishes cooked with coconut).

Garuda phone # is (416) 487-6426
Bali is (416) 782-5928

--
Gerrit Visser				Phone: (416) 672-2100
ISG Technologies			Fax:   (416) 672-2307
3030 Orlando Drive			Net:   gerrit@isgtec.com
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada, L4V-1S8
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: p91083sw@tom.ai.kyutech.ac.jp (Wahyo Sindhu)
Subject: Bahasa Jawa
Organization: Kyushu Institute of Technology, Iizuka, JAPAN.
Distribution: alt
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:02:06 GMT


Guru Antropolog saya minta bantuan ttg terjemahan bhs Jawa ke bhs Inggris.
Saya sendiri sudah banyak lupa bhs Jawa & tdk biasa menggunakan bhs Inggris.
Kepada rekan-rekan yg punya waktu please help..

=====================================================================
1. adu jago
 A: Kowe karo pitik milih endi, apa milih.....
 B: Aku milih pitike wae gelem kok aku.....
 A: Hiyaaa, ha, ha.
 B: Pitike wae teleki no. Ayo diadu jagomu.
 A: tenan hayo.
 B: Jagoku wis kluruk lo.
 A: Jagoku ya wis kluruk.
 B: Menang, jedhot,jedhot...

 Translation
 A: Which chicken d'you want to take? which..?
 B: I'll take this, cause I like it.
 A: Wow, ha, ha.
 B: Hei, that chicken just shit! Let it fight with yours.
 A: D'you really want to? OK, let 'em at each other!
 B: Mine clucked.
 A: Mine clucked too.
 B: Get 'im, boy! Go for it!...

2.kemalingan
A: ....pitung piring, nek digawa kabeh okeh yoh, gelas-gelas ana,ning kok ora.
   Baskom baskom ki yo ora digawani ki. Mung piring tok.
B: Pinten to?
A: piringe?
B: Mboten, le mlebu.
A: Niku lo njugil gedheg terus mbok menawi lawange dijugil nganggo apa ngono
   kancinge.Wong piringe sebagian ana cerak nggenthong ngono kuwi teng kureb,
   lha piring kok dikurebke ki ngapa, kaget kula punika.
C: Nembe wau dalu?
A: Wau dalu. Mangka aku ya wis nglilir, rumangsaku pakne.. nggokku baskom
   piring piring ki yo ora digawa. Kumbahan barang neng nggon ember ki yo ora
   digawa. Kok lucu, aku ngono, kok sing digawa kok mung piring tok.
B: Pitik sing kemanggang kemanggang wolu, dadi sing pitik dek emben niku gedhe
   gedhe niku papat, sing gedhe, sing cilik cilik niku lima. Empun tunggale
   sing dibeleh siji dek emben. Arep tak beleh bapakne Muni keciliken ngaten.
C: Mboten pirsa jam pinten kinten kinten?
A: Antawispun jam setunggal. Aku ki krungu. Gugah gugah bapakne to. 


3.sepedae rusak
A: La dereng kenging ditumpaki ta.
B: Lo perkara kuwi, bingkile aa bingkile ngendi? Bingkile kuwi cetha, aja,..
   bocahe rak wis pite didandakke pokoke sak sakapike.
C: Sakapik-apike.
B: A, nggih, sing ngragadi kana. A kuwi mung bingkile endi?
D: Kudune nggih wau mboten dibalekke kok...dibalekke ting mrika malih.
B: Le ndandakke neng endi?
A: Mboten ngertos je, turene nggih teng ngrika ngoten. Bingkile tutup.
B: Mula kuwi sing salah ki. Ya mung bingkile kuwi, tegese ki...
D: Mesthine sing ajeng ngijoli mesthine nggih, sakapike pit.
B: A nggih, jelas ki kok. Wong seksine ya, ning saiki kowe rak ora apa apa ta?
   Enjor sekolah ora?  Nek ora, tak boncengke. Ngono jarene.   

========================================================================

sekian, terima kasih.
wassalam,
wahyo sindhu abk
From: ck345@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Wira Putra)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Leadership style ....
Date: 11 Nov 1992 03:48:08 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Apakah ada yang mau cerita tentang leadership dari bos, manager,
direktur ataupun atasan yang dapat menjadi contoh kita semua ?

Dari cerita kalian semua akan membantu research saya.
Cerita itu boleh di Indonesia ataupun dimana saja tapi merupakan
pengalaman kalian masing-masing yang kalian anggap perlu untuk
di contoh.

Ada resep baru atau tidak nih ?
Nanti saya suruh istri saya untuk nulis resep yang paling
gampang untuk dibuat ... ha .. ha ... hah.

Wassalam,

Wira Putra
ck345@cleveland.freenet.edu
-- 
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: jasa@dalton.inesc.pt (Jose Antonio Soares Augusto)
Subject: Congratulations !!!
Organization: INESC, Lisboa Portugal
Distribution: alt.culture.indonesia
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 11:11:22 GMT

It was an year ago (12/11/91)  that 271 ET people died in the Dili massacre.

Here are congratulations for those who did it...

Happy birthday to you...
Happy birthday to you...
Happy birthday dear fellows...
Happy birthday to you.

(fellows ???)

	J. Augusto
From: 2huxvalved@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: S Y N D R O M E
Date: 9 Nov 92 10:40:59 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

   Some Indonesian academics and foreign observers said that
the problem in ET is mainly social problem. I agree with them.
And I also see the problem of "some people" in this net:

                       POST POWER SYNDROME

   Once, it was one of the m i g _ _ i e s t country in the world and
now ....one of the p o _ _ e s t country in Europe.

   Any fellow Indonesians studying psychology/psychiatry ? You may
help. 


regards, 

Bagong.
From: blesmana@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Need information about Indonesia
Date: 10 Nov 92 10:27:32 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

Hi,

Any body out there ??

I am, here in Hamilton, New Zealand, lack of information about Indonesia.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier)
Subject: Re: to all Portuguese
Keywords: TIMOR ! 
Reply-To: m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 13:12:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.193912.12688@inesc.pt> jota@iguana.inesc.pt writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.003837.44377@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, andri@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>
>	To guys like you i have only 2 things to say: the first one is: 
>		.go back to school, your english is awful.
>		.go back to the hole you were in. You seem uncapable
of having an inteligent conversation, and your post was the more
irracional thing i have seen 4 a long time.

Come on guys.  It seems that we're getting a lot of personal attacks
from the Porteguese here.  If you can't contribute to this newsgroup
anything but attacks, please get off.  Perhaps if you Portuguese got
off your high horse and realise that you're country is far from
perfect in the way that it treated its colonies, you could see where
Indonesians and people who love Indonesia like myself are coming from.
There is MUCH MORE to Indonesia than the 'genocide' in Timor Timur,
though it should NEVER be ignored and I indicate in my .sig.  If you
opened up and got off this Eurocentrism, you could learn that
Indonesia isn't all bad, in fact, it is a very facinating society.
>
>----
> Joao Pedro Martins, Lisboa, Portugal - jota@tutor.inesc.pt
> 
> "Carpe Diem, she muttered, and laughed. We seize the day.	
>  Well, sometimes, the day seizes back !" (--FORGOT--) 

God bless,

-- 
 Michael Le Houllier           *  John 3:16  * Nov 12, 1991 - Dili      
 (m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu.us) *  Remember: June 4, 1989 - Beijing
 GO BLUE JAYS!!!   BEAT THE BRAVES!!!!
 ANNOY THE MEDIA.  RE-ELECT BUSH!!
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:06:00 EST
From: <NXN101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: Portugese : same ol' crap....
 <1992Nov11.132927.6273@donau.et.tudelft.nl>

In article <1992Nov11.132927.6273@donau.et.tudelft.nl>, anto@donau.et.tudelft.nl
(Anto Daryanto) says:

>**flame on**
>
>Saya tidak mengerti kenapa anda bisa begitu bencinya terhadap orang
>putih. Saya sendiri anak perantauan, di Belanda. Orang di sini baik-baik,
>rasisme nggak pernah saya alami, saya tidak setuju kalau pendapat sdr.
>Nordin  mengasosiasikan semua orang putih sebagai "begok" dan "dungu",
>juga  menganggap mereka sebagai "lembu". Saya tidak habis pikir apa yang
>anda dapatkan di luar negri (apakah bisa dikatakan kalau anda sebagai
>orang Indonesia tulen, atau karena anda sendiri ngiri dengan keadaan
>orang putih?).
>
>**flame off**

Orang Belanda yang dulunya datang ke Indonesia pun baik-baik juga.  Datang
dengan muka yang manis sebagai pedagang ke Indonesia.  Lihat apa yang terjadi
kepada Indonesia setelah kedatangan mereka.  Mereka hancurkan negara
saudara.  Maybe now the Dutch has nothing to do with Indonesia anymore (I
don't know...).  But, the fact is that the Dutch are still insisting their
position in Indonesian's affairs.

That's what I am afraid of....


-azlan nordin-
  Penn State

>Anto Daryanto
>
>
>--
>Delft University of Technology,         |
>Faculty of Electrical Engineering,      | **********************************
>Telecommunication- and Traffic-         |   **  Happy user of OS/2 2.0  **
>Control Systems Group                   | **********************************
>                                        |
>E-Mail: a.daryanto@dutetvd.et.tudelft.nl
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny)
Subject: Re: Himbauan buat rekan-rekan
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 04:15:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.023714.26273@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au> s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA) writes:
>Danny,
>
>In case you didn't realize, a fair amount of Indonesian you read in this 
>newsgroup are sprinkled with colloquials and slangs. Some are even 
>(grammatically) incorrect. But they are generally understood and widely
>used, especially in Jakarta. 
>
>The moral of the story is: you can speak like that to any one, but if you 
>want to write a formal letter, essay etc in Indonesian you would try
>to use a more formal version of the language. So, don't throw away your
>text books just yet and don't get confused.
>
>Keep learning. It (the language) ain't that hard, you gonna speak it
>in a flash.

Josef,

Terima kasih untuk nasehat dan dorongan.

I spent 3 weeks in Indonesia in February, and learnt a little bit
of the language.  I am going back for 5 weeks next February/March and am
trying to learn some more.  The grammar is mostly simple, the hard part
is learning vocabulary...

I'd like to be able to talk to people when I go back, but I'd also like
to be able to read Indonesian writers such as Pramoedya Ananta Toer.

Danny.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: jlb@thor.inesc.pt (Jose' Luis B. Borbinha)
Subject: Re: to all Portueguese
Organization: INESC - Inst. Eng. Sistemas e Computadores, LISBOA. PORTUGAL.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:36:36 GMT

andri@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
: Ingat nggak Jalan Patric Lumumba di Jakarta.

O mesmo pra ti meu cabrao

-- 
 Jose' Luis B. Borbinha | INESC - Inst. de Eng. de Sistemas e Computadores
  E-mail: jlb@inesc.pt  |         Rua Alves Redol, 9
  Phone:  351.1.3100305 |         Apartado 10105
  Fax:    351.1.525843  |         1017 Lisboa CODEX - PORTUGAL
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: ramid@nyx.cs.du.edu (Rudy Amid)
Subject: Singaporean Embassy
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 21:58:23 GMT

Maaf kalau post ini ada disini.

Apakah ada kedutaan Singapore di Canada?  Saya sudah check di Toronto
tapi tidak ada.

T'rims!

--
!Rudy Amid              ///
a434amid@cdf.toronto.edu//
amid@r-node.gts.org   ///
Netrek/IRC: Radix  \\X//
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny)
Subject: Re: Himbauan buat rekan-rekan
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:50:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.135954.13001@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> rda491s@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Agus Budy Wuysang) writes:
>BTW, although this newsgroup is not moderated (or is it?) use
>English only, please.

Please keep on using Indonesian!  I'm an Australian trying to learn the
language and it's nice to have stuff to practise on.

Danny.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Subject: Facts #2
Originator: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Keywords: timor facts
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:04:09 GMT


Myth and Realities in our approach to Indonesia
-----------------------------------------------
	On the matter of alleged "genocide" the fact is that nobody knows
authoratively how many people died in East Timor, during civil war, as a
result of tribal strife, during and after the Indonesian intervention, and as
result of famine. That many people died is tragic but the deliberate 
exaggeration of the number of deaths to discredit Indonesian is simply 
dishonest. In 1976 Francisco Dacruz in dili was quoted in the world's press as 
saying 60.000 had been killed in East Timor. The next day Dacruz said he had 
been misquoted.
Through, a process not unlike think of a number and doubled it and what is
called incestuous interquote - and with the active assistance of the pro 
Fretilin lobby - what began as a figure of 60.000 was gradually, escalated 
to 200.000 or a third of the population !

	The assertion that Portugal is the Administrative Authority in East Timor
is, except ion the most arcane legalistic sense, fatuous since Portugal 
abandoned its neglected colony seventeen years ago. It is also based on a 
non-binding General Assembly resolution (37/30 of 1982) - the last occasion 
on which there was a vote in the Assembly on the subject - on which a very 
small majority of 50 countries voted for the Portuguese resolution, while a 
total of 96 voted against it or abstained. The former Secretary General, 
Perez de Cuellar, himself also expressed his personal irritation to me 
over Portugal's incosistency in the face of domestic political pressures 
during its negotiations with the Indonesians, under his auspices, betwen 
1983 and 1988 when I was our Ambassador to the United Nations.

	The assertion that Canada and Australia were the only countries which had
recognized Indonesian sovereignty over East Timor is quite false. More than 
30 countries have explicitly or implicitly recognized East Timor as part 
of Indonesia.

(Address by Richard Woolcot, former Secretary of the Department of 
Foreign Affairs and Trade of Australia to the Sydney Institute
on 26 May 1992).
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: jlb@thor.inesc.pt (Jose' Luis B. Borbinha)
Subject: Re: ET come home
Organization: INESC - Inst. Eng. Sistemas e Computadores, LISBOA. PORTUGAL.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:07:42 GMT

:  ck345@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Wira Putra) writes
: 
: >First of all, I want to know ... what do you Portugeses want by
: >attacking us Indonesians about East Timor in this newsgroup ?
: >Do you have any source(s) in your government to give the result
: >of this discussions ?
: >If NOT ..... I don't know what to say .... Ok, guys ?
: 
 well, we are definitely diferents. Maybe you don't believe it, but in
Portugal we are not all "in fase" with our government. Each Portuguese as
his own conscience, and the freedom for to talk and to say what he thinks and
feels. Maybe this sounds strange for you, but you can belive it. Each
portuguese opinion you find here is a personnal free and honest opinion
(we don't have political secret polices for to confine our freedom).

regards for you, my friend

jlb

-- 
 Jose' Luis B. Borbinha | INESC - Inst. de Eng. de Sistemas e Computadores
  E-mail: jlb@inesc.pt  |         Rua Alves Redol, 9
  Phone:  351.1.3100305 |         Apartado 10105
  Fax:    351.1.525843  |         1017 Lisboa CODEX - PORTUGAL
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu (Luis Miguel Silveira)
Subject: Re: to all Portuguese
Organization: Research Laboratory of Electronics, Massachusetts Institute of
	Technology
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 06:25:11 GMT



   In article <1992Nov4.003837.44377@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
   andri@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

   to all Portuguese,
   we, Indonesian, don't colonize East Timor as you did.

So in your own words Indonesia _is_ indeed colonizing East Timor.
East Timor is a colony, therefore in many ways not truly part of
Indonesia, the country (by definition of colony).  No wonder the East
Timorese are unhappy about their situation.

If the Indonesian were unhappy in the years of the dutch colonisation,
surely they, of all people, can understand the feelings of the East
Timorese, which after being colonised by the Portuguese for ~500
years, now have to face another colonial power for who knows how many
years.

   Portuguese left this colony while 99% of its people were ILLITERATE.
   Why? Because they are not white(what else the reason?) They are not
   your relatives or brothers, so you didn't care about them.
   Under our protection, open your eyes, 90% of the people are able to
   read and write. We built clinic in EVERY village. We provides money
   annually to churches. We should have put all Portuegese officials into
   trial 17 years ago.

So they now can read and write.  Shouldn't they be given also a chance
to decide their own future ?

Yes, now they can read, they have clinics (hospitals), even schools,
roads, everything.  Who knows, in a few years they will have TV, a
VCR, etc.  They coudn't be happier! :-(.

What if they would trade their literacy, their schools, their roads,
and all the progress Indonesia brought for the freedom to choose their
own way of live ?

Can we, in conscience, live without knowing what they really want for
themselves ?

Regards,

-Miguel



--
=============================================================================
Luis Miguel Silveira                            e-mail : lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu
=============================================================================
Research Laboratory for Electronics  -  Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Room 36-893, 77 Massachusetts Ave,                      Phone: (617)-253-7307
Cambridge MA 02139                                      Fax:   (617)-258-7864
=============================================================================
also affiliated with:
INESC - Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores
Av. Alves Redol, 9-3o, 1000 Lisboa, PORTUGAL           Phone: (351)-1-3100288
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: dewanto@cae.wisc.edu (Gaston Dewanto)
Subject: Re: to all Portuguese
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 9 Nov 92 12:53:01 CST

In article <1992Nov9.060852.44539@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> andri@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>... Stuff deleted...
>successively, and in different ways enriched our identity. If you go
>to Indonesia, you will find Mahatma Gandhi Street, Dr.Sun Yat Sen
>Street,Jose Rizal Street for example,in almost every city in
>Indonesia.This doesn't mean we don't have any other heroes. We do have
>... etc...

Seingat saya, saya tidak pernah menjumpai nama-nama jalan di atas.
Walaupun kita tidak suka dengan cara orang Portugis di newsletter ini,
saya rasa tidak sepantasnya kita berbicara hal-hal yang tidak benar.

g.dewanto

A



Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: pires@vxcrna.cern.ch (ALVES)
Subject: Re: about ET. to Mr Silveira
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:28:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.130916.44627@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, hsiahaan@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes...
>[...]
>do you know what the difference between invasion and integration is ? iraq
>invaded kuwait. US invaded granada. indonesia integrated ET. the difference
>is how we treat ETers. we try very hard to raise their living quality. we

If Indonesia "integrated" East Timor, why did Indonesia need an army?
Why does this "integration" costs more than $1 million a day only with
military expenses?  This "integration" costed the life of 200,000 East
Timorese and more than 10,000 Indonesians dead (plus the many thousand
wounded and mutilated).  There are hundreds of new graves of Indonesian
soldiers in Dili, Lospalos, Baukau, Same, not to mention the ones which
were buried in Indonesia.  Not only the East Timorese are suffering with
this war.  Many Indonesians have now relatives who died or were wounded
in East Timor, because of this "integration." 

The fact that the war lasted for 17 years now, without the army being
able to defeat the resistence, despite 17 years of efforts of ABRI to
crash it, is a proof that the population supports the guerrilla,
otherwise they wouldn't survive long. 

The Indonesian Government doesn't even find a single, honest, East
Timorese which supports the "integration".  The Governors they have to
choose are criminals like Mr. Soares, founder of APODETI, which served
the Portuguese administration and now serves Suharto  (he was so much a
common criminal that even the Portuguese expelled him twice, with
charges of rape and fraude). 

And whenever the Indonesian Government gives a schoolarship, it ends up
by arresting the students, for being patriots, for defending the
independence of their country.  Indonesian prisons are full of East
Timorese students, like Fernando Araujo, recently awarded with a Human
Rights Medal.  I never heard a name of a single East Timorese which
defended that "integration" and was not a well known criminal. 


>[...]
>listen to your conscience Mr. Silveira, do you really think ET is going 
>to be better with indonesia doing development there or with portugal doing 
>nothing. again what indonesia needs is chance and time. gives us another 25
>years and see what would happen.if we are still around, mr silveira, we might
>want to discuss this again.
> 

In 25 years, East Timor can be Earth's Paradise, but, at the rate they 
are being decimated, there will be no East Timorese to benefit from it.

Rui Pires  (pires@vxcern.cern.ch)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Subject: Re: : Re : Re : View from Timorese Resistance
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:09:42 GMT

In <LMS.92Nov11174452@rle-vlsi.mit.edu> lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu (Luis Miguel Silveira) writes:

...
>It seems mots of the Indonesians were not very well aware of the
>situation (I am not claiming we or I know everything about it either).
...

You don't know that for a fact.
We know the situation better than you, so just drop it will you.

-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia