From: godura@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Ruchir Godura)
Subject: Re: Idols RE: Why did Muhammad Break Temples
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:12:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.205155.119654@marshall.wvnet.edu> yea027@marshall.wvnet.edu writes:
>
>Let's use some logic here please.  1=1.  1 =/= many.  There is ONE God.  He is
>Allah.  There need be no idol to represent Him because He is far too big to be
>one idol.  Okay, so perhaps that is why there are so many idol.  Then why not
>just accept that God is supreme and does not need to be
>either personified or made into a statue. 
>This is getting into a theological question now.  Since we seem to have so many
>questions, then here is my question which will relate directly to the hot topic
>of the past few days:  If Hindus do believe in ONE God who is Brahmen and that
>there are other carnations of this one God, then if Ram is buried (therefore
Correction : Ram, or whoever the actual person was that corresponds to
the mythological hero was not buried .. more likely cremated.
On theological lines, I see no contradiction in the passing away of one
of God's avataars (or "carnation"(?)) as you put it, and a belief in the
continued existence and presence of God.
Ram was a representative of God here on earth, and he left when his job
was done. Doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

>meaning dead) god is dead (astaghfirullah)?   Or is one carnation of god dead? 
                           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
			   Kindly translate

>How can a carnation be dead and the thing itself be alive?  Can God die?  If
>one does believe in God, then one knows that all things are in the hands of
>God.  If God is dead (astaghfirullah), then the world should be in chaos.
>	God is big enough that He is all-present.  Why then does He have to be
>pinned down to an idol, thus limiting him?  Why does he have to be pinned down
>to a human being?  Is He so unsuccessful just "being" that He has to either put
>Himself into human or idol form?  

I think you don't understand the meaning of idol worship. Just because
your religious beliefs cause you to close your mind to an interpretation
of faith different from yours.
Heck, man, we don't pray to a piece of stone. We hindus pray to a
representation of God that we chose to create in the only form
coceivable to us .. one of man himself. Even the christians pray in
front of a cross .. isn't it another form of idol worship ? If you
cannot see God, what is the harm in representing Him in a form a human
being can easily relate to ? 
An idol is thus NOT considred God, but, merely an image of Him. 
If a mosque that was already in disuse can symbolise the identity or
whatever of Islam , then why not an idol symbolise God for Hindus ?
Your mother probably looks at your photograph when she remembers you ?
Is she guilty of photograph worship/affection ?..

Praying in front of an idol is far more acceptable to me than would be
the reading of namaaz in an eerie voice by the local mullah, and waking
me up at five O' clock in the morning, not to say anything about
disturbing the entire locality five more times in a day ..

>	If you are interested in having an intellectual discussion rather than
>a fighting session, respond with intellect and I will read what you have.  I
>will respond but I do not wish to bite anyone's head nor have mine bitten,
>thank you.  
>	My other question is : why all this Islam bashing?  Muslims are being
>bashed left and right but everyone fails to mention that the problem right now
>is riots between both groups, Hindus and Muslims, not just Muslims beating
>Hindus.  You've got angry people out there and they are responding emotionally. 
>I've been hearing that Muslims are making the situation worse.  I don't think
>it is just Muslims.  I think that it is all people.  Not just Hindus either.  I
>will still say to the Muslims,
> stand up for what you believe in, don't let anyone scare you
>from your religion.  
>	If people believe their religion (culture, society) should be
>secular, then they have to abide by that when it concerns everyone not just
>themselves.  Muslims don't believe in secularity, but when they live in 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wish I could believe that your opinion is not representative of your
community .. 

>a secular environment, then it is logical to deman that the environment is
>secular for everyone, not just secular

Double standards ? Hypocrisy ?
If we were to be a hindu theocracy in India, would you not ask for equal
treatment for muslims ? Or is it only the prerogative of muslims to be
non secular.


> for the citizens and zealots for the minority.  Furthermore, before slamming a
>religion along with its people, I would suggest that Muslims and non-Muslims
>alike open the Quran and see what kind of words are preached in that.  Since
>Islam is the Quran, you will see what the religion is really all about.

I don't have the time or inclination to read the Quran. I believe you
when you say it preaches good stuff. No one has ever denied it.
Unfortunately, understanding and reading and practicing are three
entirely different things.

>	For anyone that is interested, I could post the letter written by Malik
>al-Shabaz (Malcom X) to his home when he went to Hajj.  In that you can see the
>love, fraternaty, and understanding that is preached by Islam.
>Salam alaikum
>Mariam

Ruchir.
-- 
Ruchir Godura | godura@cis.udel.edu | (302) 292-0668 (H) (302) 831-1949 (W)
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