HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aduell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: dinosaur horsepower
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 19:26:37 GMT


An English company - Trend Data Systems, made a paper tape reader with 2
photosensors on the sprocket track spaced 2.5 characters apart. Basically,
the average of those two was used as a threshold for the data tracks, so
the system was relatively immune to transparant-ish tape, or reduction in
brightness of the lamp.
They are very nice readers - there were 2 main types, the HSR 500's whic
hdid  500 cps and could reverse, and the UDR 350's and UDR700's which were
simpler mechanically, did 350 or 700 cps and were unidirectional. I have a
HSR500 on my P850, a udr700 on the PDP11/45, a spare UDR700 for one of my
PDP11/10's and a HSR500P (internal PSU) which I am going to libnk to an
IBM XT so that I can archive some tapes to the winchester.
  On a related thread of the old computer sounds, I once wrote a porgram
that read a pair of characters from the HSR500, and toggled a bit on the
user port, using the 2 characters as pitch and # cycles (and hence
duration) . I Of course linked that output port to a loudspeaker. One nice
effect was that the reader solenoid (to move the pinch roller against the
tape) gave out a nice 'click' each time, providing accompanyment for the
tune from the speaker.
 -tony 'PDP11 Hacker' Duell
ard@siva.bris.ac.uk
From: spitzak@gree.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Spitzak)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Terminal intrinsics
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:35:09 GMT
Reply-To: spitzak@gree.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: gree

>> Maybe we are lucky DEC is going out of business.

>Low blow.  Read the ANSI spec.  The DEC stuff complies to a lot of standards,
>which is more than I can say for stuff coming from your beloved employer.

Sorry, that did not come out at all how I expected.  DEC is probably responsible
for almost everything good in computers nowadays (maybe not directly, but
every real innovation has been made on it).  Sun owes it's life to the VAX
(on which Berkely Unix was developed).  It is actually pretty distressing
that they are in such trouble now.

Bill Spitzak
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: wargopl@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Peter L. Wargo)
Subject: Re: Typical Unix apps
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:00:05 GMT

azog@world.std.com (Azog Thoth) writes:

>What are your hefty machines used for?

My SPARCstation is used mostly to run Interleaf 5.3... even with 24M of
RAM and 100M of swap I still feel constrained.  (I wonder if it will run
better on a SPARC10....)

-Pete

--
----------
Peter L. Wargo        | wargopl@sun.soe.clarkson.edu | "In other words...
Documentation         |                              |  R.T.F.M..."
Enable Software, Inc. | GEnie mail: PSYCLOPS         |
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: kahn@emav131.webo.dg.com (Mike Kahn)
Subject: Computers on TV (was: Re: computers in movies)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 13:21:33 GMT
Distribution: alt
Reply-To: kahn@emav131.webo.dg.com (Mike Kahn)
Organization: Data General Corporation, Westboro, MA

I don't know if this has been mentioned here yet but awhile ago I was 
flipping through the channels on my TV and I came across an old episode
of "Fantasy Island".  They had this "computer genius" (and I use the term
lightly) there who had this computer that was a supposed matchmaker.  It
was kinda neat looking with alot of flashing lights and beeping noises.
At any rate, at one point in the show the computer broke and the "genius"
said to someone "I'm pretty sure I've got it narrowed down to the memory
interface or the cathode ray."  Obviously this scriptwriter's only knowledge
of a computer didn't go beyond his pocket calculator.  I could just see it
"Well here's some real technical sounding words: memory, interface, cathode,
and ray."
-Mike Kahn
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: samson@ptd475a.erim.org (Joseph Samson)
Subject: Re: Data General
In-reply-to: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu's message of Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:39:44 GM
Organization: Environmental Research Institute of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:41:48


gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:

>The drive was a drawer that pulled out of the machine.  You would remove
>the "disk pack" by turning a handle and pulling it straight up.  You'd
>put in another by dropping it in and turning the handle until it locked
>into position.  You'd then close the drawer.

>As I recall, the only time they changed it was when they did backup every
>afternoon.  My guess is that the packs were about 30" in diameter and maybe
>3 or 3 inches thick.  They were usually white or blue plastic, with access
>to the side for the heads.

>My question:  Can anyone tell me how much storage these things probably had?

Probably a Perkin-Elmer. I think the disk was 14" in diameter (remember, a
rack is 19" wide) and held a whopping 5 Megabytes.
--
		C D B.
		D B S A B-Z B.
		O, S N-D!
			-- William Steig		Joe Samson
							ERIM
							PO Box 134001
							Ann Arbor MI 48113-4001
							(313) 994-1200 x2878
							samson@erim.org
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov (Rick Colombo - Fermilab)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Pronouncing Unix names
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:15:22 GMT
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division



Maybe someday, someone will invent an OS with command names using REAL
english words, like: Directory (vs ls) or Type (vs cat)... nahhhh. :-)


 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *  Sure to get `Flamed' if I didn't cross all my i's and dot all my t's ;-)
From: jon%vector0.UUCP@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Dazed N. Confused)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: And what about this DogCow business ? ( moof! )
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:31:00 GMT
Organization: Vector Zero

willem@pub2.bu.edu (Willem van der Oord) writes:

> Also, in some versions of the MacOS (less than 7, 6.0.7?) if you hold
> down the option key while selecting About the Finder, you will see
> the original picture of mountains that came with Finder 1.0.  If you
> wait long enough Clarus will appear and say "Moof!" every once in a
> while.

     So that's why everything in the Mac world is so bloated.  So
many damned easter eggs.

     Sigh.

--Jon

   jon%vector0@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US                Life is like a kiwi.
   PacBell.COM!sactoh0!vector0!jon
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: derf@ravel.udel.edu (the Greatful Fred)
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:21:00 GMT

	Gee, it only takes a press of the lower left button on my watch
		 to change the mode, which means just brushing my arm
		 against a wall could switch modes for me.


\---/ \---/
 | ||--| |-\  _______  ______    ________
 | || -| |- | || |  |  ||  _ \   || |   |     Frederick B. J. Slota
 | || || || |  | |__    | |_| |   | |__                         
  \_| |_/ | |  | |__|   |    /    | |__|   Technology House Secretary 
    | |___| |  | |      | |\ \    | |      322 Ray Street B, Newark DE 19717 
    |______/  ||_|__|  ||_| |_|  ||_|      DERF@brahms.udel.edu
From: dvc@eagle.hr.att.com (David Van Cleef)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: SUN == "San University Net|Node"?
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:22:00 GMT
	<4819@calmasd.Prime.COM> <40423@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Originator: news@cbnewsb.cb.att.com

>>>>> On 31 Jul 92 16:07:02 GMT, s.telford@ed.ac.uk (Scott Telford) said:

ST>  
ST> Does anybody remember how the original SUN board (or the Sun-100, for that
ST> matter) managed to run "real" Unix (Sun UNIX 1.0?), given that the
ST> MC68000 didn't really have proper memory management? Did they use the
ST> same "shadow memory" kludges used in the 68k ports of Minix?

I believe it had a pair of 68000s, one handling the CPU duties, and
the other one acting as memory manager.
--
David A. Van Cleef			AT&T Bell Laboratories
internet: dvc@eagle.hr.att.com		Red Hill Facility, Middletown, NJ
					+1 908 615 4906
From: terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: 9 track data storage???????????????READ/NEW/FOLLOWUP
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:37:09 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

In article <3897202@zl2tnm.gen.nz>, don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes) writes:
> I dunno.  I saw a lot of imaginatively munched tapes in 9-track drives.
> I used a TA79 a lot -- it was much more reliable than the two TA81s it
> superseded put together, but when it decided to fail it would do so properly.

  Well, the TU77/78/79 are all built by TA/Pertec. I happen to think that 
they are marvelous drives, the end result of years of evolution, which
nothing can surpass. Of course, once microprocessors and better reel servo
motors became widely available, drives like the CDC Keystone (TU8x) came
out at _vastly_ lower prices.

  The thing to remember on the TU7x drives is that there are a large number
of adjustments which need to be touched up. Unfortunately, your average ser-
vice tech is terrified of making them (they are rather complicated) and thus
doesn't want to get involved. [Part of this fear is from installing the DEC
reliability FCO in the TU78, probably]. If you want to see a tech tremble,
tell him "I think the Interconnect F1 board is bad" 8-)

  Anyway, all the problems you describe with the backwrap on the takeup reel
are from improper adjustment of the reel rotation rate. On a load/unload, the
reels turn at rates set by trimpots in the logic cage (as opposed to when the
tape is loaded, when they are controlled by the capstan and pressure trans-
ducers.

	Terry Kennedy		Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.bitnet	St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	+1 201 915 9381
From: ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk (Mr Stephen R Usher)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Cloned computers
Date: 31 Jul 92 11:20:48 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium, London

In article <Bs8H8G.5F3@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> dagbrown@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Dave Brown) writes:
>In article <greg.712512455@duke> greg@Quotron.COM (Greg "Maddog" Knauss) writes:
>>The recent talk of various Tandy clones made me wonder how much hardware
>>has been knocked-off over the years.  These are the ones I know of:
>>
>>Original			Clones
>>------------------------------- -------------------------------
>>IBM (PC/AT/etc.)		[Billions and billions...]
>>Apple II(+/e/c)			Franklin (1000/1200), Laser 128
>>Tandy Color Computer		Dragon 32
>>Tandy TRS-80			Video Genie
>>Macintosh			[Rumored.  Asian and American.]
> IBM (PC/AT/etc)                Amiga
> Macintosh                      Amiga
> Sinclair Spectrum              Amiga
> Atari ST                       Amiga
> Commodore 64                   Amiga
> BBC Micro                      Amiga
> CP/M Machines (2.2)            Amiga
IBM (PC/AT/etc)			Atari ST/TT (Software Emu or hardware)
Macintosh			Atari ST/TT (Software)
Apple II			Atari ST/TT (Software Emu)
Commodore 64			Atari ST/TT (Software Emu)
Atari 400/800(XL)		Atari ST/TT (Software Emu)
Sinclair ZX81			Atari ST/TT (Software Emu)
Sinclair ZX Spectrum		Atari ST/TT (Software Emu)
				Hobbit Micro (exUSSR)
CPM				Atari ST/TT (Software Emu)

Key
---
Software		Software needed to interface hardware only
Software Emu		Software emulates whole computer (inc CPU)
Hardware		Extra Hardware runs emulation (eg CPU)

>--
>Dave Brown
>dagbrown@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca
>Phone: (519) 725-6896
>"I believe the word you're looking for is, 'AAAARRGH!!!!'" - The Penguin


Steve
--
Addresses:-
JANET:-		ucacmsu@uk.ac.ucl or	steve@uk.ac.ox.earth (preferable)
Internet:-	ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk or	steve@earth.ox.ac.uk (preferable)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: ghoast@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Devin Jones)
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Keywords: workstation, hacking, risks
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:37:40 GMT

kst@telesoft.com (Keith Thompson @pulsar) writes:

>In article <1992Jul23.152757.1506@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> gudjm@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (D John McKenna) writes:
>> [...]
>> Just out of curiosity... out of all of you hackers who wear a digital
>> watch, how many have it in 24 hour mode?

>The one on my right wrist (with the scientific and hex calculators) is
>in 24-hour mode, and the one on my left wrist (with the phone
>directory) is in 12-hour mode.


That's all fine and wonderful, but get this:  not only do I have a watch that 
is in 24 hr mode, but it's -analog-.  Beat that.


>Some people have literally screamed when they've suddenly noticed that
-- 
----
This is the world, it's not working.
ghoast@gnu.ai.mit.edu or djones@sbanet.uucp or ghoast@sbcc.uucp or ....  
Danger the drug that takes you higher?
From: lupe@ukw.uucp (Lupe Christoph)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Pronouncing Unix names
Date: 31 Jul 92 07:25:35 GMT
Organization: cic

colombo@bronco.fnal.gov (Rick Colombo - Fermilab) writes:



>Maybe someday, someone will invent an OS with command names using REAL
>english words, like: Directory (vs ls) or Type (vs cat)... nahhhh. :-)

We had a German computer (the Telefunken 440) with commands like
that. But the German language with it's split verbs doesn't make
such a great command language, so what came out was only remotely
resembling German. But some commands were real fun, the one I remember
was MBDUMPE (MagnetBand, magnetic tape).
-- 
| ...!unido!ukw!lupe  (German EUNet, "bang")     |  Disclaimer:            |
| lupe@ukw.UUCP       (German EUNet, domain)     |  As I am self-employed, |
| suninfo!alanya!lupe (Sun Germany)              |  this *is* the opinion  |
| Res non sunt complicanda praeter necessitatem. |  of my employer.        |
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: jeff@bradley.bradley.edu (Jeff Hibbard)
Subject: Re: IBM vs. world terminology (was: What does dd stand for?)
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 06:22:03 GMT


Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs) writes:

> Channel programing was a rich field for hackers;

It sure was.  Since no two physical records on a disk had to be the same size,
each was preceded by an 8-byte header ("count field") giving the cylinder 
number, head number, record number, key length and data length.  The normal 
way to read, for example, the 1st record on cylinder 50, track 10 was to 
construct a channel program to seek to the proper cylinder & track, 
start the hardware searching for a count field with 50-10-1 in the 
cyl-head-rec portion, then read the data which followed.  If the physical 
header contained an incorrect cylinder or head, the search would fail, making 
it appear that there was no record 1 on that track.

When I was a student, I used to hide data on the university computer by 
purposely writing incorrect cylinder numbers in the count fields.  I could 
store just as much data on a track as anyone else, but any attempt to read 
my tracks with any normal program or system utility would report the track 
was empty.  Of course, mere students weren't allowed disk space to save 
permanent files anyway, so I stored all my data in the alternate cylinders.  
Each 2314 had 60 alternate tracks, of which (at my school, anyway) only 2-3 
were used.

I used to horribly confuse the I/O clerks.  Normally, somebody debugging
a 2000-line program had to carry their source code around as a big box of
punched cards (this was early 1970's).  You'd give the computer center your 
box of cards, and they'd return it (after a couple of hours) with your 
printout.  I stored *my* source in the alternate cylinders and wrote a little 
editor for it, so I only had to submit the changed lines along with a few 
control cards.  Fairly often, when I came to pick up my printout, the clerk 
would apologize for loosing my box of cards, since my huge listing "couldn't 
possibly" have been produced by the 20-card deck there to be returned with it.

Jeff Hibbard
Peoria IL
From: lupe@ukw.uucp (Lupe Christoph)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Americans who can't spell
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:25:30 GMT
Organization: cic

grog@adagio.UUCP (Greg Lehey) writes:

>>Exactly. In German, the date of today is pronounced (directly translated)
>>as "17th 7th 92". Very short and efficient. Ok, you might argue that
>          ^^^
>No, that's not German, that's an abomination. In German, the months have 
>names.

They do, but many people say something like "Siebzehnter Siebenter
Zweiundneunzig".

>>"seventh" is longer than "July", but many month names are much longer.

>So presumably you're going to replace the names of the days of the
>week by numbers too.

>I only work from 2 to 6, sometimes on a 7, but never on a 1.

Are you zero-based or one-based? Do you start counting on Monday
or on Sunday? ;-)
-- 
| ...!unido!ukw!lupe  (German EUNet, "bang")     |  Disclaimer:            |
| lupe@ukw.UUCP       (German EUNet, domain)     |  As I am self-employed, |
| suninfo!alanya!lupe (Sun Germany)              |  this *is* the opinion  |
| Res non sunt complicanda praeter necessitatem. |  of my employer.        |
From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Unix Roots of DOS?
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:46:52 MDT
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Jul21.003526.16050@NCoast.ORG>, allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH) writes:
> 
> The interesting thing being that the CP/M-80 world had its own solution,
> namely ZCPR... which used the TOPS-10 (or possibly Tenex / TOPS-20)
> hierarchical filename notation.  (Considering how klunky DOS is, it would
> probably have been appropriate.  :-)

The most that ZCPR does is allow you to associate an alphanumber with a
traditional CP/M user number. Thus, I can refer to user number JOE instead
of user number 4.

I always thought that user numbers in CP/M were a kludge, so I don't use
them. In fact, when I added command line recall and editing to my personal
copy of ZCPR, I took all that stuff out.

Maybe someday when I get serious hacking time, I'll come up with a recursive
BDOS so that CP/M can have drive subsetting like RT-11.

Roger "flat directory" Ivie
ivie@cc.usu.edu
From: gsteckel@vergil.East.Sun.COM (Geoff Steckel - Sun BOS Hardware CONTRACTOR)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: swapping to DECtape == FALSE
Date: 30 Jul 1992 01:21:03 GMT
Organization: Omnivore Technology, Newton, Mass. (617)332-9252
Reply-To: gsteckel@east.sun.com (Geoff Steckel - Sun BOS Hardware CONTRACTOR)
NNTP-Posting-Host: vergil.east.sun.com

In article <13309@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>From article <1992Jul28.152904.28638@alliant.com>,
>by werme@alliant.com (Ric Werme):
>> This may be a great story, but I don't believe it:
>> 
>> 1) I was at CMU from 1968-1974, and was one of the first operators for the
>>    first PDP-10 (it had 5 DECtape drives and no disks) when it arrived in
>>    1969.
>
>That's curious, I was there from 1969 to 1973, as an undergrad, and that's
>when I heard the story about swapping to DECtape!  There was quite a bit of
>folklore about DECtape even back then!

And I'm pretty sure it's folklore - it's the sort of thing it _ought_
to be able to do.

However... the 4S72 monitor back in '69 or so (on KA-10 serial #4 and #6)
was a very early version of TOPS-10 which implemented swapping.
It required a Bryant drum (330KW) or a Burroughs disk (500 KW)
(tie-in to flying disk thread here...), and you had to configure
it at MONGEN (kernel build time).  No option for swapping to DECtape.

You _could_ put the SYS device (which had all the system programs, like
PIP, MACRO, TECO, etc.) on a DECtape.  This was almost as bad as
swapping to DECtape.  I _did_ work on a system configured that way.
And as Eric Werme says, it would spin a lot.

Then there's the time the Burroughs disk (4' in diameter, 1800 RPM)
bearings started screaming.  We powered that one off in a hurry!

Hi EJW!

	geoff steckel (gwes@trilobyte.com, gwes@wjh12.harvard.EDU)
Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Sun Microsystems, despite the From: line.
This posting is entirely the author's responsibility.
From: phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Phil Gustafson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Cromemco Z-2
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:12:35 GMT
Organization: Famed Parquet Floor

In article <7269.2A6A2D29@psycho.fidonet.org> jra@f160.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jay Ashworth) writes:
>Bernd Felsche, to All on Sunday July 19 1992:
>
> BF> Later on, Cromemco migrated to the 68K architecture on S100,
> BF> and I would be surprised if you couldn't find an old box of
> BF> theirs humming in you vicinity.
>
>They sure did... and if you watch TV, the odds are fairly good that you get to see a new box of theirs humming away.  The ArtStar 3D broadcast graphics animation system runs on a Cromemco 450, a 68030 based box, with a lot of custom hardware on, I believe, a VME bus.
>
The current incarnation of Cromemco lives in Sunnyvale, CA, at 408-737-7400.
They do indeed use VMEbus 68000 cpu's in funky adapters that connect them to
the S-100 bus.

On I saw on a recent visit used a Force 68040 board, quite possibly a record
S-100 cpu.  I sure hope they weren't using the S-100 bus for memory...

BTW, they use UN*X, too.

phil

-- 
|play: phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG; {ames|pyramid|vsi1}!zorch!phil                |
|work: phil@gsi; sgi!gsi!phil            | Phil Gustafson                   |
| "Don't believe in ads.  Don't believe in government.  Watch yourself --   |
|  everybody is trying to screw you!"  Bill Gaines, 1922-1992               |
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: dagbrown@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Dave Brown)
Subject: Re: Today's Games Destined to be Classics
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:48:20 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.081136.16821@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> jelson@poincare.cs.jhu.edu (Jeremy Elson) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.184311.5093@eskimo.celestial.com> shaggy@eskimo.celestial.com (David Case) writes:
>>Yeah Koronis Rift was ok, I just didn't like the theme as much as
>>Rescue's...  And what's this about my CoCo III's not being old?  it's
>>about as old as CoCo III's get, it was the second CoCo III bought in my
>>hometown (one of the clerks beat me to it...I got mine the first day it
>>was released)  I liked the CoCo, it was a nice machine, I still own
                                                 ^^^^^^^
>>mine.
>
>Coco?  What kind of game is that?

CLUELESS!!!!!  The CoCo is the Radio Shack Color Computer, one of the
neater beasts to come from the guts of Tandy...it ran OS/9 and did other
neat things.

--
Dave Brown
dagbrown@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca
Phone: (519) 725-6896
"I believe the word you're looking for is, 'AAAARRGH!!!!'" - The Penguin
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers