HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: floydb@sun01.admin.rpi.edu (Barry B Floyd)
Subject: Re: Penny stock or options traders
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:05:44 GMT

xcpslf@decsrv.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (stephen l favor) writes:

>Anyone out there who trades in the penny or options marrkets?  I'm
>interested in people's practical experience in these markets.  I've
>heard all the horror and success stories, and now I'm looking for
>advice/recommendations from actual traders such as what brokers you
>use and why, and what your general approach to these markets are.

>Please only respond to this if you've actually done so trading as
>I already know all the theory.

I have traded options and penny stocks on a regular basis. The most
important 'advice' I can offer is as follows: "Expect to lose 100%
of individual investments".

Taking insights from "A Random Walk Down Wall Street", I have found
that investing in "castles in the air" is one of the only worthwhile
ventures in penny stocks (an most "aggressive growth" stocks at any
price). This means that you must read read read read, and develop
a sense for what is going to excite other investors (like ourselve)
who are doing the same thing.

Options are often traded against large capitalization stocks, and/or
well understood and widely followed stocks (e.g. IBM, ATT, Ford, etc.).
There are a few lesser known stocks with options, but not many. In
these cases I have found that "firm foundation" investment combine
with "up on expectations, down on news" works better than not. This means
that companies with sound financials and generally positive opinions
during times prior to quarterly earnings reports are more likely to
have an appreciable move in the underlying security. "Positive"
opinions does not mean that I expect the stock to go up, merely that
estimates are strongly bias and may cause disappointment or suprise
(stock will go down or up respectively, independent of fundamentals).
This is all well and good, but you have to decide whether the "news"
will be above expectations, below expectations, or neutral and
buy puts (below expectations) or calls (above expectations) accordingly.
This has worked best for options expiring in three to six months that
are also 'in the money' or nearly so. Under these conditions the 'time
premium' plays a lesser role. A month or less from expiration and/or
when the option if further out of the money the time premium plays
the largest role in overall pricing of the option.

The hardest lessen I have yet to fully learn, is to know when to sell
at a loss (vs 100% loss at expiration). If you have faith in your opinion
but you have been proven to be wrong (thus far) in timing or price points
then sell at a loss and buy back in at a better price point and/or new
expiration month.
 
lots more could be said, but these are the things I am playing with now.

barry








-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+ 
| Barry B. Floyd                   \\\       barry_floyd@mts.rpi.edu |
| Manager Information Systems - Admin.\\\             floydb@rpi.edu |
+-Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute--------------------troy, ny 12180-+
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: fsbern8@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Ambady Suresh  (Sverdrup))
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Morningstar HELP!
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:02:00 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <barrett.712417355@cc.gatech.edu>, barrett@cloudgen1.gatech.edu (James Barrett) writes...
>TW.A51@isumvs.iastate.edu (Jim Berg) writes:
>>Could someone please post to me or the list what the meaning and
>>scale of the "Morningstar Ratings" is.....
> 
>Morningstar is a paper about mutual funds.  They publish ratings of
>funds every quarter or so.  They call their ratings "risk-adjusted
>performance" ratings.  That means that a low-risk, low-return fund
>and a high-risk, high-return fund will both get an average rating,
>because that is what they are expected to return given the risk
>they take.  The ratings are on a scale of 1 to 5 and are only 
>applied to funds which have a 3-year history (thus all the NA entries).
> 
>Hope that helps!

Hi James :
	Thanks for sharing these ratings with us. Is 1 the best or the 
worst rating ? Being an amateur, I can only guess...   Suresh
From: jdavis@husc13.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Charles J. Givens
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:04:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc13.1992Jul22.120412.14061
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <2063@tivoli.UUCP>, dfavor@logan.tivoli.com (David Favor) writes:
>
> [Much about Givens deleted]
>
> I am curious... why should this person cancel? the membership guarentees a
> $1000 return the first year of your money is refunded. so if this individual
> makes/saves the $1000 great. if not they get their money back. seems to me
> there is very little exposure to loss in this situation. there is no guarentee
> in reading the book.

Well, actually the guarantee that was posted said that the Givens
organization reserved the right to help you implement their strategies
rather than refund your money.

Also, it appears to me (with no knowledge of this system whatsoever other
than what has been posted) that one of the strategies is to increase your
insurance deductable, thereby saving you $x per year in insurance costs.

This is dangerous!!!  Insurance companies are not stupid.  If they're
giving you the option of increasing your deductable, then it's probably not
a good thing for you to do.  I know that there are some cases where you
want a high deductable (if you can't *afford* to pay the higher insurance,
for example), but if you get in a car accident or whatever, rest assured
that this strategy will have cost you money, not saved you money.  With a
$500 deductable, you effectively have *no insurance* for an insured
accident that costs $500 to fix.

Well, high deductables do encourage safe driving, fire safety, etc., so
I guess there's something there...

Jason Davis
jdavis@husc3.harvard.edu
From: jay@intermec.com (Jay Schlegel x6878)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Ca. Real Estate
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:48:04 GMT
Reply-To: Please, don't bother.
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intermec Corporation, Everett WA
Followups-To:  If you feel the need, seek professional help.

In article <1992Jul23.215121.20334@adobe.com> hamachi@adobe.com (Gordon Hamachi) writes:
>Broward Horne writes
>> 
>>     And so the age-old Battle of Ca. Real Estate appears to
>>     be reaching a conclusion.  Too bad all the optimists have
>>     bailed out...  :)
>> 
>>     Is there any way to *short* property? 
>
>There sure is.  Contact Michael Zimmers and Bill Tuthill.


   Well Broward (& Gordon), perhaps the long-term thinkers decided they have
   better things to do than engage in endless circular haggling.

   Me, I'm highly optimistic, and infinitely amused...

   Horne, Hamachi, Zimmers, and Tuthill... and all in one breath (imagine that:-)!


Definately *not* the last word,
-- 
-*jay  Jay Schlegel --> Intermec Corp., Everett Wa.
						     fluke!
	jay@intermec.com      OR  -->	    uunet!pilchuck!intermec!jay
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng)
Subject: Re: Splitting $ into mutual funds (?)
Originator: acheng@shalom.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 05:56:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.183131.189@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> a_willisgt@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
> ...
>  In the course of explaining mutual funds and the like, he asked me if he
>should open seperate accounts: one for retirement, one for tuition, etc.  I
>didn't really know what to say. I've just one one fund, one account, and that's
>it.  Just one general fund for any future financial needs.  I've never really 
>thought about splitting it into seperate accounts.  

One reason I see to have it split is tax liability.  I have a 403(b) in
mutual funds.  The contribution and dividend are both tax defered till
retirement age.  And I have other mutual funds account that must pay
tax every year.  The college fund could be in the kid's name
instead and the tax rate is lower.  Note that once it is in the kid's
name, he/she can spend it on a hot rod instead of college and there is
nothing you can do.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: gmcquary@Ingres.COM (George F. McQuary)
Subject: How does quarterly loss directly affect shareholder?
Reply-To: gmcquary@Ingres.COM (George F. McQuary)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Distribution: usa
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:21:08 GMT

A company that I own in just announced a loss this quarter, then they made the
statement that this loss was "equilavent to 35 cents per share".

Does this mean that they will now sell their stock to the public 35 cents
lower per share? That they will try to get 35 cents per share from each
share holder to coop their loss? Is this meaningful information at all?

--
George F. McQuary 
"He is mad, bad and dangerous to know." -Lady Caroline Lamb
From: robs@informix.com (Robert Schneider)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Buying stock w/o a broker
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:13:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Jul22.134243.1632@oswego.Oswego.EDU> u6k75@lfkw2.bgm.link.com writes:
>I'm also interested in info on a broker that has a low (<$20) commission when
>you only purchase one share.
>
>|  Bret Colburn                                                   |
>|  CAE Link - Link Flight Simulation Division                     |

I believe that Brown & Co. (my broker) will only charge you $25 plus
two or three cents a share, so your cost could be 25.02 or 25.03.

Rob
From: nyp00@cd.amdahl.com (Nicholas Y. Pang)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Charles Schwab Mutual Fund Clearing House
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:39:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

I read from a recent financial newsletter that Charles Schwab Discount
Brokerage
has recently announced that customers can now invest in any of 80 or
more
mutual funds at NO charge.  The fee for the service will come from each
participating fund company. Schwab receives 0.25% of all assets brought
in
under this program.

I am a Schwab customer but has not received any annoucement as such. Anybody
heard about this? If so, which companies are in this program?

-- 
Nicholas Pang         nyp00@cd.amdahl.com       
Amdahl Corporation    nyp00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com
From: andy_d@hyperdesk.com (Andy Dennie)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: which newspaper?
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:54:15 GMT
Reply-To: andy_d@hyperdesk.com
Followup-To: misc.invest
Distribution: usa
Organization: HyperDesk Corporation, Westboro, MA

In article <Bs0vDA.EsK@news.larc.nasa.gov>, erlebach@icase.icase.edu (Gordon Erlebacher) writes:

>Does anybody have any opinion concerning a choice between the 
>two following newspapers:  The Wall Street Journal, and the
>Investor's Daily.  From what I hear, the latter contains more detailed
>information on individual companies, and many types of economic indicators
>in the form of charts.  Comments are welcome.
>

I subscribe to IBD and read it daily.  I also skim a friend's WSJ daily.
I a broad sense, I would say that the WSJ is a businessperson's
newspaper, while IBD is an investor's newspaper.

WSJ: 
o    has more articles of general interest, but some of it is "fluff".
o    has an index of companies mentioned in the various articles.


IBD: 
o    has more info in its stock listings, such as relative stringth,
     accumulation/distribution rank, earnings per share rank, price to
     earnings ratio, stock symbol, etc.  [Note, not all stats appear
     every day; some of them rotate].
o    lists options in a much more readable format than the WSJ
o    shows 90 price graphs of interest (30 each from NYSE, AMEX, and
     NASDAQ) every day.
o    has a full-page article packed with statistics on a featured
     company every day.
o    typically has four semi-meaty articles every day; one on a national
     issue, one spotlighting an executive of a successful company, one 
     on the economy, and one on an investment subject.
o    has better mutual fund coverage.  Six funds are spotlighted every
     day, so you can follow the holdings of your funds if you want.
     There is also an article on mutual funds every day, often
     highlighting a particular fund or manager.



I suppose I'm biased somewhat toward IBD because I subscribe to it, but
to be honest, I'd hate to have to get along without the WSJ too.  I
think they complement each other fairly well.  If you can, I suggest
trying to work out an arrangement like I have where you subscribe to one
and borrow the other from a co-worker.  If not, I'd lean toward IBD
myself, but it really depends on what you're looking for.


--
  o o|  Andy Dennie, HyperDesk Corporation     andy_d@hyperdesk.com
  o o|  2000 West Park Drive, Suite 300        Phone: (508) 366-5050 x109
  ---+  Westboro, MA 01581                     Fax:   (508) 898-3841
From: merritt@macro.bu.edu (Sean Merritt)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: listing change
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:36:12 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department



	A NASDAQ stock I have been following just went
	from being listed in the small cap issues to 
	national market area. How does this happen?
	Is this a good sign?

	The stock is Transmedia Network TMNI

	EPS=61 RS=92 p/e=28 52 w Hi=13 1/4 low =6 1/16

	12 3/4 + 3/8 7/21/92.

	WSJ article 4/23/91.
	
-- 
Sean J. Merritt		         |      Nietzsche che dice?
Dept of Physics Boston University| 	       Boh!	
merritt@budoe.bu.edu		 | 
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com (Maurice E. Suhre)
Subject: Re: Should I seek "safe" investments?
Organization: TRW, INC.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:54:44 GMT

mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant) writes:
>Given that history, and given that I am investing a sum of money now
>with no expectation of having to draw on it within five years, is
>there any reason why I should not put it all in equities?  Is there
>any reason not to put it in an aggressive equity porfolio?

Taking the last question first, yes.  Look at the chart of the mutual
fund average shown every day in the Investor's Business Daily.  There
has been a sequence of declining tops since the peak in January.  The
strength relative to the S&P 500 is stil declining.  There isn't any
particular evidence of a turnaround.  I'd definitely stand aside on
aggressive equity funds.  If you know how to pick the aggressive stocks
which are going up, please send me e-mail immediately :-)

Regarding the first questions, probably not.  The arguments in the
previous paragraph apply to most of the market indexes (except the DJIA
which seems to be holding up).  Here are two quotes from Richard Arms
book which discusses (surprise !) the ARMS index:

    Because of the index's genesis as an intraday tool it was ori-
    ginally, and perhaps unfortunately, named the Short-Term Trad-
    ing Index.  This has often scared off investors whose immedi-
    ate response was:  "That's not for me, I'm an investor not a
    trader!"  Yet every market participant, be he a trader or a
    long-term investor, must at some time enter the marketplace
    with his bundle and lay it on the line.  At that time it
    really does not matter whether or not he is a short-term
    trader.  He is still, through his broker on the floor of the
    exchange, participating in a market where prices can move very
    rapidly minute to minute through the trading day.  Consequently,
    timing can still make a difference of many dollars; real
    dollars with the same value to the investor as to the trader.

Later on I quote again:

    The longer-term investor is in a less vulnerable position
    because he does have the luxury of waiting.  Having decided to
    buy a particular stock, he can then do so at a time which he
    believes to be opportune.  Yet, most longer-term stock buyers
    fail to take advantage of that luxury.  Haing decided to buy a
    stock, they proceed to blindly step in and buy it, regardless
    of the market.  Their rationalization is the assertion that
    they should not be concerned with small price moves because
    they are in for "the long pull" and fractions are of little
    consequence.  Often the truth behind their rationale is that
    they do not understand the short-term market and feel unable
    to time their transactions, so they randomly place their orders,
    hoping for a good price.

While mutual funds will, in general, have lower volatility than 
individual stocks, the philosophy espoused seems to me to apply.
-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: zhu@graphack.asd.sgi.com (Benjamin Zhu)
Subject: Telemex
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:58:44 GMT


Does anyone know why the Telemex stock has been dropping
like a rock during the last few sessions? It went down
quite a bit after Barron's claimed Mexican stocks were
overvalued. Pretty rapidly it bounced back. Now it seems
to take a dip again. Is this related to current trade talk
among US, Canada and Mexico? Or is it just a reflection
of the sloppy global market for the last few weeks? Am I
missing something?

Ben

--
Benjamin Zhu             ;;; ``Appointed'' priest of microcode
Silicon Graphics, Inc.   ;;; ``Just call my name, I will be there.''
zhu@graphack.asd.sgi.com ;;; ``Projective geometry is all geometry.'' - Cayley
(415) 390-1187           ;;; ``Learn forever, young forever.'' - Anonymous
From: nkk@wet.UUCP (N. K.)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Stock Quotes
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:09:12 GMT
Organization: Wetware Diversions, San Francisco


In article <9207201614.aa00470@Paris.ics.uci.edu> iba@ruffles.ICS.UCI.EDU writes:
>Try Free Financial Network (212)697-7171  2400-8-1-N or:
>       "    "         "    (212)697-7763  1200-8-1-N
>FFN has free commodities, utilities and the last time I heard, had
>stock prices.

aAnything similar to this at the West Coast particularly in the
San Francisco Area?

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: bobv@cherry.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (robert veranes)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Charles Schwab Mutual Fund Clearing House
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:09:10 GMT
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore

For those of us who live outside the U.S. and cannot therefore use the 800 numbers, Can anyone provide direct numbers for Schwab, Janus, Fidelity and other major mutual fund companies (No-load and discount).  My hope is that they will accept collect calls from their investors.  Currently I have such an arrangement with Invesco/Financial.  Thanks.
Robert Veranes, Singapore
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: chuck@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chuck Cullen x4423)
Subject: re: Question about Zycad and Cypress
Reply-To: chuck@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chuck Cullen x4423)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 21:30:19 GMT


> What's the story with Zycad

Their earnings were lower than expected last quarter.
As has been mentioned before, these days the market has no mercy 
on a stock when the company doesn't meet anticipated earnings.
The same thing happened to Lotus recently.
I know someone who says he bought Zycad at 1, watched it go to 9 but
held onto it while it went back down.
He thinks it will go back up (no, that "someone" is not me, but,
I also think it will go back up, so, buy, buy).

> Why did Cypress Semi. jump about 2 points?

dunno.


Chuck Cullen
chuck@stowe.HQ.Ileaf.COM
(617) 290-0710 x 4423
-- 

Chuck Cullen
Interleaf Inc.
Prospect Place
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins)
Subject: Re: Question on open order to buy......
Reply-To: keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 14:59:26 GMT

In article <789@tdat.teradata.COM>, jr1@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com (Joseph
Rayhanian) writes:
|> 
|> Recently I put an open order to buy (good for 30 days) 326 shares of
|> EVEREX
|> at 2 1/4 through my discount broker, Kennedy Cabot & Co.  
|> 
|> Two days ago, EVERX closed at 2 1/4, but when I checked to see if my
|> order went
|> through, it did not.  
|> 
|> This is the second time this has happened to me.  Could this happen?
|> or I don't 
|> understand something.
|> 
|> Thankx in advance.
|> 
|> Joseph Rayhanian
|> E-mail :   jr1@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
|> Tel: 310-524-7098
|> 
|> 
|> 


Joseph,

Did you check the spread with your broker??

A price of 2 1/4 could be either for a buy or a sell.

If the spread is 2 1/4   to 2 1/2,  then those buying
have to pay 2 1/2 per share  while those selling receive
2 1/4.

The close listed in the paper is the last transaction
which occured.  Either on the buy side or the sell side.
(you can't tell by just looking at the price.)

The quote you may be seing is a sell for 2 1/4 which
means the price hasn't quite reached your target.

If the spread was  2 to 2 1/4,  then you should ask
your broker what happened to your trade.


Also, just out of curiosity.... Why did you decide to
buy  326 shares.  Is 326 a lucky number for you??

-Keith
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com (Maurice E. Suhre)
Subject: Re: Business Week Recommendation
Organization: TRW, INC.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:47:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.203544.4409@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> capskb@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Keith Brewster) writes:
>
>Yes, not to flame Business Week too much, but I read somewhere (I think it
>was a Barrons interview -- yes, their competitors) that there was a negative
>correlation between Business Week covers and the economic future (most of the
>time when the cover said "Confidence in President Slipping", e.g., there was
>a recovery and vice-versa).  Same goes for NewsWeek.  

Stan Weinstein uses this type of data as a technical indicator.  When
all the headlines, magazine covers, etc., trumpet gloom and doom and
swear that the market will never recover...  that's probably a good
bottoming area!  In short, when all the sellers are washed out, the
buyers (and they are there) will be running the market back up.  It
also works the other way.  A bull on someone's cover means to run for
cover :-)
-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: robp@landru.network.com (Rob Peglar)
Subject: Re: Business Week Recommendation
Reply-To: robp@landru.network.com
Organization: Network Systems Corporation 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 14:16:03 GMT


There exists a distinct, statistically valid negative correlation
between the cover story of "Business Week" and the Dow.  In short,
the cover of BW is a wonderful contrary indicator (leading) of
the Dow.

For the indicator-impaired, just use the following:
when BW says "the market stinks", buy.
when BW says "the market is great", sell.

Rob


In article 4409@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu, capskb@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Keith Brewster) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.134803.5923@Happy-Man.com> Irving_Wolfe@Happy-Man.com writes:
>>We stopped subscribing to Business Week in 1974, when they ran a 
>>big, very scary issue on the coming death of capitalism right near 
>>the market's trough -- for those who don't remember, it fell a lot 
>>that year, and then recovered.  Discouraging people from buying 
>>shares when they are as under-priced as they've been any time in my 
>>life hardly constitutes giving one's readers valuable information.  
>>
>
>Yes, not to flame Business Week too much, but I read somewhere (I think it
>was a Barrons interview -- yes, their competitors) that there was a negative
>correlation between Business Week covers and the economic future (most of the
>time when the cover said "Confidence in President Slipping", e.g., there was
>a recovery and vice-versa).  Same goes for NewsWeek.  I don't know how well
>they do on individual company recommendations.
>
>BTW, last time I was in Wisconsin (Jan), Pik 'N Save was, indeed, a
>warehouse-type grocery store.
>
>kb
>
>




---
-legal mumbo jumbo follows-
This mail/post only reflects the opinions of the poster (author), 
and in no manner reflects any corporate policy, statement, opinion,
or other expression by Network Systems Corporation.

Newsgroups: misc.invest,sci.econ