HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania
X-Envelope-to: JNET-L@BITNIC.BITNET
X-VMS-To: NetMail%"JNET-L@BITNIC.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:35:00 EDT
From:         Mark_Strawcutter <MJSTRAW@IUP.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas

>What if you create a file "problemuser.RSC" and set its file protection so
>that it can't be read. Also set its version limit to 3 as above. Then the
>problemuser couldn't receive the file.

Then the 4th file comes in, your "special" version gets purged, problemuser
receives the 3 files, you're back where you started.

----------
Mark J Strawcutter                           BitNet:    MJSTRAW@IUP
Director, Systems and Communications         DNS (mx):  mjstraw@grove.iup.edu
Indiana University of Pennsylvania           Voice:     (412) 357-4000
Indiana, PA   15705                          "you can't nail jello to a tree"
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:19:00 EDT
From:         Peter Jorgensen <PJORGENSEN@COLGATEU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas

In response to your recent message:

>>You can always set version limits on files for "problem"
>>users. eg set file/ver=3 problemuser.RSC;*
>
>Until they receive everything.  No more problemuser.RSC files to propogate
>the version limit.  Next incoming file you're back to unlimited.

What if you create a file "problemuser.RSC" and set its file protection so
that it can't be read. Also set its version limit to 3 as above. Then the
problemuser couldn't receive the file.

It's not MY idea ;)

Peter Jorgensen - Colgate University Research & Instructional Computing Spec.
                - Mac/DOS/VMS consultant, PMDF Postmaster, HyperTalker
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:22:03 LCL
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was LISTMAN@GREARN
From:         Skapetis Lefteris <LEFTERIS@GREARN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Mail problem

> >
> >$ mail/protocol=jan_jmailprot
> >%SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value
> >
>
> Does the logical jan_jmailprot still exist in the system table?

  Of course it does. It is not a matter of a logical| As i stated in
my previous mail, the problem appears when an incoming jnet mail
appears in jan_spool in the form of JMAILER.TXT. I suppose that
the header of the mail contains a bad parameter or something like
that. Is there any way i can find which is that?

>
> Melvin Alcorn
>

Lefteris Skapetis
From: ACSSYSMA@EKU.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Subject: Re: Mail problem
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:31:28 GMT
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JNET-L@UGA.BITNET  (BITNIC JNET-L List) 28-AUG-1992 writes:

>Return-path: <JNET-L@UGA.BITNET>
>Received: from ukcc.uky.edu (MAILER@UKCC) by EKU.BITNET (PMDF #2856 ) id
> <01GO43N49C34001IH6@EKU.BITNET>; Fri, 28 Aug 1992 11:37:10 EDT
>Received: by UKCC (Mailer R2.08) id 1298; Fri, 28 Aug 92 11:37:30 EDT
>Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:45:56 LCL
>From: Skapetis Lefteris <LEFTERIS@GREARN.BITNET>
>Subject: Mail problem
>Sender: BITNIC JNET-L List <JNET-L@UGA.BITNET>
>To: Melvin Alcorn <ACSSYSMA@EKU.BITNET>, David Barbee <STUBRBEE@EKU.BITNET>,
> "Steven C. King" <STUKING@EKU.BITNET>
>Reply-to: BITNIC JNET-L List <JNET-L@UGA.BITNET>
>Message-id: <01GO43N49C36001IH6@EKU.BITNET>
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was LISTMAN@GREARN
>
>  I have a mail delivery problem in my system :
>As soon as a JMAILER.TXT file appears in jan_spool, the
>Mailer_Daemon exits, and no jnet mail is delivered.
>
>  These are the lines from LMD.LOG :
>
>$ mail/protocol=jan_jmailprot
>%SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value
>
>  Any ideas how to correct this error?
>I have restored jmailprot.exe, mfsdisp.exe, mfs.exe etc from
>a backup before this problem has started but nothing happened.
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Lefteris Skapetis

Does the logical jan_jmailprot still exist in the system table?

Melvin Alcorn

_____________________________________________________________________________

BITNET:  ACSSYSMA@EKU.BITNET           Land Line: (606)622-1986
         Eastern Kentucky Univ.
______________________________________________________________________________
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:06:00 EDT
From:         Mark_Strawcutter <MJSTRAW@IUP.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas

>You can always set version limits on files for "problem"
>users. eg set file/ver=3 problemuser.RSC;*

Until they receive everything.  No more problemuser.RSC files to propogate
the version limit.  Next incoming file you're back to unlimited.

We purge anything that sits for more than 7 days.  If I see any sender
equal to recipient files I delete them - only when I notice (been meaning
to automate it :-).  Will have to look into MFDISP.FOR to stop it sooner.

As someone mentioned (Stephen?), it won't be long until co-operating users
start a "storage exchange".  Sigh.

----------
Mark J Strawcutter                           BitNet:    MJSTRAW@IUP
Director, Systems and Communications         DNS (mx):  mjstraw@grove.iup.edu
Indiana University of Pennsylvania           Voice:     (412) 357-4000
Indiana, PA   15705                          "you can't nail jello to a tree"
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X-Envelope-to: JNET-L@BITNIC.BITNET
X-VMS-To: GUVAX::IN%"JNET-L@BITNIC.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: SCOTT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:58:00 EDT
From:         "Scott Allen, Georgetown University,
              ACC" <SCOTT%EUROPA@GUVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas

>Then the 4th file comes in, your "special" version gets purged,
>problemuser receives the 3 files, you're back where you started.

        OK, if this is going to continue...

        You run a nightly batch job that says
        $ set file/ver=3 jan_receive:problemuser.rsc;*

        Can ACL's add anything to this ?
        -Scott
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 10:06:07 +0200
From:         Eric Thomas <ERIC@SEARN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas
              27 Aug 1992 09:57:22 -0500 from JNET Discussion Group
              <JNET-L@FINHUTC>

VM systems have had  this kind of problems for about as  long as large VM
systems  with many  greedy  users  have existed,  since  you have  native
equivalents  of SEND/FILE.  You solve  the  problem by  writing a  "spool
cleaner", a program  that runs (say) every hour,  preferrably at slightly
randomized times  so that users can't  prepare for the "visit",  and that
enforces a number  of rules you have documented. For  instance, you might
decide not  to allow normal  users to have more  than 5000 blocks  in the
spool. This can be  a very simple program that just  reacts when you have
too much,  or something more  subtle that  makes statistics and  lets you
exceed  your  quota for  a  short  while, but  will  take  action if  you
chronically have more files than allowed.

  Eric
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:23:00 EDT
From:         Mark_Strawcutter <MJSTRAW@IUP.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas

>        You run a nightly batch job that says
>        $ set file/ver=3 jan_receive:problemuser.rsc;*

If you're going to all that trouble, why not have the nightly job:

$ purge/keep=3 jan_receive:problemuser.rsc

----------
Mark J Strawcutter                           BitNet:    MJSTRAW@IUP
Director, Systems and Communications         DNS (mx):  mjstraw@grove.iup.edu
Indiana University of Pennsylvania           Voice:     (412) 357-4000
Indiana, PA   15705                          "you can't nail jello to a tree"
From: MERAT@CGEUGE51.BITNET (Roger Merat)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Subject: Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas
Date: 1 Sep 92 08:09:53 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: JNET-L@FINHUTC.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"JNET-L@FINHUTC.BITNET"

If the SEND-to-self quota loophole is a problem, I think the most effective
counter-measure against this abuse is to protect SENDFILE.EXE with an ACL
such as (IDENTIFIER=NOSENDFILE,ACCESS=NONE) rather than deleting files in
the JAN_RECEIVE area. That's crude, but as the abusers understand the rules
very quickly, you don't have to grant the id NOSENDFILE frequently.

  Roger Merat               merat@uni2a.unige.ch
  University of Geneva      merat@cgeuge51.bitnet
  Switzerland               c=ch/admd=arcom/prmd=switch/o=unige/ou=uni2a/s=merat
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 08:53:27 -0400
From:         ACSSYSMA@EKU.BITNET
Subject:      Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas

JNET-L@UGA.BITNET  (BITNIC JNET-L List) 28-AUG-1992 writes:

>Return-path: <JNET-L@UGA.BITNET>
>Received: from ukcc.uky.edu (MAILER@UKCC) by EKU.BITNET (PMDF #2856 ) id
> <01GO3O5W5N8G001GRY@EKU.BITNET>; Fri, 28 Aug 1992 04:13:24 EDT
>Received: by UKCC (Mailer R2.08) id 7263; Fri, 28 Aug 92 04:13:44 EDT
>Date: 28 Aug 1992 10:06:07 +0200
>From: Eric Thomas <ERIC@SEARN.BITNET>
>Subject: RE: problem with jan_receive area and quotas
>In-reply-to: Message of Thu, 27 Aug 1992 09:57:22 -0500 from JNET Discussion
> Group <JNET-L@FINHUTC>
>Sender: BITNIC JNET-L List <JNET-L@UGA.BITNET>
>To: Melvin Alcorn <ACSSYSMA@EKU.BITNET>, David Barbee <STUBRBEE@EKU.BITNET>,
> "Steven C. King" <STUKING@EKU.BITNET>
>Reply-to: BITNIC JNET-L List <JNET-L@UGA.BITNET>
>Message-id: <01GO3O5W5N8I001GRY@EKU.BITNET>
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>
>VM systems have had  this kind of problems for about as  long as large VM
>systems  with many  greedy  users  have existed,  since  you have  native
>equivalents  of SEND/FILE.  You solve  the  problem by  writing a  "spool
>cleaner", a program  that runs (say) every hour,  preferrably at slightly
>randomized times  so that users can't  prepare for the "visit",  and that
>enforces a number  of rules you have documented. For  instance, you might
>decide not  to allow normal  users to have more  than 5000 blocks  in the
>spool. This can be  a very simple program that just  reacts when you have
>too much,  or something more  subtle that  makes statistics and  lets you
>exceed  your  quota for  a  short  while, but  will  take  action if  you
>chronically have more files than allowed.
>
>  Eric

But why should the problems of an IBM system be extended to a VAX system?
(I know its not your fault that IBM machines had this problem but that you
were merely pointing out where the problem started.)  I have noticed this
trend in other programs that have been ported from other systems to the
VAX...I really would not to have such compatibility ported to my VAX. :-)

Melvin Alcorn

_____________________________________________________________________________

BITNET:  ACSSYSMA@EKU.BITNET           Land Line: (606)622-1986
         Eastern Kentucky Univ.
______________________________________________________________________________
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:23:03 CDT
From:         "McMahon,Brian D" <MCMAHON@GRIN1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas

The SEND-to-self quota loophole has been a favorite trick here, too.  Some
time ago, Kim Schacher, from whom I inherited the Postmaster job last year,
cooked up a utility to spot these "hyperspaced" (as they've become known
locally) files.  It's a simple bit of DCL to root through the most recent
link logs and find cases where source = destination.  The job runs
periodically, and the system manager gets the reports.  Simple, but
effective.

(Note:  For best results, be sure your computer use policy covers this sort
of misbehavior.)

If anyone would like to see a copy of the procedure, just drop me a line.

Brian McMahon (BDM13)    <MCMAHON@GRIN1.BITNET>    <MCMAHON@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Postmaster / Acad. Software Support   Grinnell College Computer Services
Grinnell, Iowa 50112 USA   Voice: +1 515 269 4901   Fax: +1 515 269 4936
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Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:25:00 EST
From:         "Craig R. Watkins" <CRW@PSUECL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas

The real problem to deal with here (in the design of a scheme) is what
to do with files which are received for users that are over their quota.

Simply discarding them is not acceptable to me, but may be to some.

There's no really good way of returning them, like there is with mail.
(This is because mail is text-based with the allowable syntaxes to do
the job while NJE files could be binary data or executables, etc.)

You could just return it to the sender, from POSTMAST, but that's not
very intuitive and wouldn't say who the bounced user was (assume the
sender had sent multiple copies).

Returning the file from the (non)receiving user would certainly be confusing.

One possibility is to discard the file and send a mail message from POSTMASTER
to the sender explaining the fate of the file, but that could still result
in the data from the file being lost.

I guess one could return the file AND a separate mail file describing the
situation.  I suspect that the file server maintainers of the network would
be thrilled with this solution!

Another approach is saving the over-quota file in a special management
directory for delivery later, but that's basically the way it is now.

Maybe someone has a new solution to this problem.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:42:28 +0200
From:         Eric Thomas <ERIC@SEARN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas
              3 Sep 1992 17:01:00 +0200 from JNET Discussion Group
              <JNET-L@FINHUTC>

On  Thu,  3 Sep  1992  17:01:00  +0200  "Bo  Kleve (Linkoping  Univ  CC)"
<B_KLEVE@SELIUC51> said:

>What the addition does is to check  if the sending and receiving node is
>the same. If so, the file is sent as mail.

There is only one problem: I have a procedure called PUTVMS.COM which can
be used to help people store VMS files in VMSDUMP format on LISTSERV. The
only  way to  do that  is to  SEND/FILE/VMSDUMP to  yourself, receive  in
uninterpreted binary  format, add  the required headers  and send  off to
LISTSERV.

  Eric
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:37:20 +0200
From:         Eric Thomas <ERIC@SEARN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas
              28 Aug 1992 08:53:27 -0400 from JNET Discussion Group
              <JNET-L@FINHUTC>

On Fri, 28 Aug 1992 08:53:27 -0400 ACSSYSMA@EKU said:

>But  why should  the problems  of an  IBM system  be extended  to a  VAX
>system? (I  know its not your  fault that IBM machines  had this problem
>but that you were merely pointing out where the problem started.) I have
>noticed this  trend in other programs  that have been ported  from other
>systems  to the  VAX...I really  would  not to  have such  compatibility
>ported to my VAX. :-)

Oh, please, this  is not an IBM  problem, it is an  intrinsic problem. As
long as  you have ONE  application which has  the ability to  exceed user
quotas one  way or  the other, clever  users are going  to abuse  it. The
problem did  not start on IBM  machines, I have  a friend who works  at a
physics research  lab where they  only use VMS  systems and every  time I
meet him he  tells me about a  new trick the physicists are  using to use
more space  than they  are allowed  to. Believe me,  there are  many such
tricks and they haven't even thought about using JNET for this yet, it is
so inconvenient compared to their other "tricks"...

  Eric
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Original_To:  JNET%"jnet-l@finhutc"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.jnet-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:01:00 +0200
From:         "Bo Kleve (Linkoping Univ CC)" <B_KLEVE@SELIUC51.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: problem with jan_receive area and quotas

Having read all the different ideas of how to prevent users misusing
the receive area, I haven't seen anyone suggesting a modification of
MFSDISP (or was it mentioned?). From what I remember when this was a
topic in 1987 that was the way to go. We had these problems ourselfs
with users trying to get more space and the system disk filling up.

A simple addition to the MFSDISP.FOR and running BUILD_MFSDISP.COM
and this problem is solved. This will even solve the problem of users
trying to cooperate on the same node. I guess they will start helping
each other using different nodes next...

What the addition does is to check if the sending and receiving node
is the same. If so, the file is sent as mail.

!       Let's send files from local user to local user as mail  /BoK 870731
        ! Check to see if we consider it mail
        ELSEIF (.NOT. VMSDUMP .AND.
        1      (CLASS .EQ. 'M' .or.
        2       TYPE .EQ. 'NOTE' .or.
        3       TYPE .EQ. 'MAIL' .or.
        4       FROM_NODE .EQ. TO_NODE )) THEN
          RECEIVE = .FALSE.
          NOTIFY = .FALSE.
          FILE = 'JAN_SYS:JMAILER.TXT'
          WAKE = 'Mail_Daemon'
          STAMP = .TRUE.


All the code except for "FROM-NODE .EQ. TO_NODE" is in the file
as delivered from Joiner. So one line is enough to "fix" it.
At least it has helped us.

/BoK

Bo Kleve
Linkoping Univ CC, Sweden

B_KLEVE@SELIUC51 or BoK@LIDAC.LiU.SE
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 16:07:20 -0400
From:         Nhan Tran <tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM>
Subject:      NEWS/VN: Air France, VN airlines seal agreement
X-To:         FISHLM%SNYBUFVA@pucc.princeton.edu, scv@media.mit.edu,
              seasia-l@msu.BITNET, vietnam@cco.caltech.edu, vn-news@saigon.com

08/30

AIR FRANCE, VIETNAM AIRLINES SEAL AGREEMENT

    PARIS, Aug 30, Reuter - France's state-owned air carrier, Air France, said
on Sunday it would help Vietnam overhaul its ageing fleet of commercial planes
and might take a stake in its former colony's fledgling airline.
    The chairman of Air France, Bernard Attali, and the managing director of
Vietnam Airlines, Nguyen Hong Nhi, agreed on the measures in an accord signed on
Saturday in Hanoi, the French airline said in a statement released in Paris.
    Talks held earlier this month between French Public Works, Housing and
Transport Minister Jean-Louis Bianco and Vietnamese Transport, Communications
and Post Minister Bui Danh Luu cleared the way for the airline agreement.
    It is one of a series of recent accords reflecting France's keen interest in
strengthening ties with its former colony.
    Paris, convinced Washington will drop an embargo on trade and investment
with Vietnam after U.S. elections in November, has recently stepped up its
efforts to woo Vietnam.
    In addition to helping Vietnam Airlines gradually renew its outdated fleet
of planes, Air France said it would help train the Vietnamese firm's workers and
service its aircraft.
    The two airlines agreed Air France could take a stake in the Vietnamese
airline's capital in exchange for French equipment and know-how, the statement
said. Details of any shareholding would be decided later.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Central Michigan University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 06:53:09 EDT
From:         Elliott Parker <3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      TH: Demo for protestors
X-To:         seasia-l@msu.edu

=======================  Forwarded  Message  ===========================
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 23:34:47+0700
From: kamol@munnari.oz.au (Kamol Hengkietisak)

     About 80 Ramkhamhaeng University students rally in front of
the Democracy Monument to commemorate protesters of the May
incident who were killed by troops and who are still unaccounted
for.
     Yesterday marks the 100th day anniversary of the tragic
event.
     The protesters demanded that the Government disclose the
truth about the deaths and disappearance of the protesters.
     They also called on the Government to devise measures to
prevent coup attempts in the future.
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Posted-Date:  Wed, 2 Sep 92 11:44:28 -0500
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 11:44:28 -0500
From:         Phil Alvin <sjk@EMX.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject:      More Cambodian News
X-To:         SEASIA-L@MSU.EDU

A few months ago there was a flood of news about the UN project in Cambodia.
Lately, all the news I've seen on Cambodia is related to Vietnam.  While
this news is welcome (as is the other new on VN,) it does not provide
general infomation on the Cambodian situation as was posted before. So,
please consider this message a plea for more Cambodian news.  SEASIA is my
only source for such news save the local paper whose only Cambodian-related
article recently was in the gossip column talking about how Shianouk's
granddaughter married.  Peace to all.
scot
sjk@emx.cc.utexas.edu
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:08:40 EDT
From:         Kueichen Sheu <bam1kxs@CABELL.VCU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: address of AA-1 Program?
X-To:         SEASIA-L%MSU.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
              Aug 26, 92 2:11 pm

> Anyone knows the correct address of AA-1 PROGRAM?
> My application to  P.O. BOX 1993, Dulles, VA 21301-1993
> has been returned with the remark INSUFFICIENT ADDRESS.
> After I talked to the Postmaster
> and checked the ZIP CODE CITIES,  there is no Dulles in
> Virginia. The closest name is Dulles in DC with the
> zip code  20041.
>
> Thanks for your help.   Roni Sjachrani
>

The address I got is the same as yours, I am surprised to hear that the address
given may be incorrect.   When did you send out your application ?

You may e-mail to me.


bam1kxs@cabell.vcu.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 08:57:26 PDT
From:         Charles Scheiner <cscheiner@IGC.APC.ORG>
Subject:      East Timor program in NY 9/2
X-To:         fbp@igc.apc.org, jholmes@igc.apc.org, jnevins@igc.apc.org,
              rkoch@igc.apc.org, seasia-l@msu.edu

The programs on East Timor with Matthew Jardine, recently
returned visitor to East Timor, will be held at the

        WAR RESISTERS LEAGUE WORKROOM

        339 Lafayette Street (corner of Bleecker),
        Manhattan, New York, NY

Wednesday, September 2, 2:00 and 7:00 pm. (Both meetings will
be similar, choose the one which is more convenient.)

Please note the change of location. For more information
contact the East Timor Action Network/US, cscheiner@igc.apc.org
or (914)428-7299.
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