From: carroll@gloin.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll)
Subject: Re: pounding the "10%" figure into the ground: Nature, 12/3/92
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:12:13 GMT

In article <13657@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <102261@netnews.upenn.edu>, pezzillo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Amy J. Pezzillo) writes:
>> In article <71739@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
># #Here's another one...
># #
># #"The gay science of genes and brains" Economist Dec 5, 1992
># #
># #Researchers in the field doubt the oft-repeated figure that one in
># #ten men is gay; they think that people whose sex lives are
># #exclusively homosexual make up about 4% of the adult men and less
># #than 2% of adult women.
># #
># #Don't give us the "that data can't possibly be valid" crap unless you're
># #willing to admit that the 10 percent figure is certainly baloney if
># #4 percent might be wrong. There are no surveys that show 10 percent, most
># #show much smaller numbers. If it's so darned unimportant, then why
># #keep repeating an obviously erronous and politically motivated 10 percent?
># #
># #Why not just admit it's 2-4 percent, and get on with it?
># 
># Well, if I may just make one small correction:  Whether or not it's
># accurate, there IS a  survey which shows 10%.  Where do you think the
># figure came from, thin air?  The 10% figure was the conclusion of the
># survey by Kinsey and associates in the 1950's.
># 
># One reason for the big discrepancy in figures may be that the 10%
># figure is describing homosexual *behavior* (Kinsey counted those who
># had had most or all of their sexual contact with members of the same
># gender as homosexual), while the other surveys seem to be counting
># only those who *identify* as homosexual.  There are many people who have had
># homosexual experiences who do not identify themselves as homosexual.
>
>The French survey didn't used identification as homosexual, but
>sexual acts with another member of the same sex.  Ditto for the
>British survey.
>
>Kinsey's work is clearly quite damaged by his inclusion of so many
>current and former prisoners.

Any the two European studies were clearly quite damaged by the social
stigma attached to honest answers to the questions.

I'll keep pointing this out until you address my objection: How
accurate can you expect the results of a survey to be, when one of the
possible answers to a question requires an interviewee to admit to be
a member of stigmatized minority?

Voluntary surveys, particularly those done in non-blind circumstances
(and you have given us no reason to believe that the British and
French surveys were blinded), cannot produce accurate information
about private behaviors, particularly when those behaviors are
commonly used as grounds for hatred, discrimination, and even
violence. The numbers cannot be used as *anything* except a lower
bound.

	<MC>
-- 
|| Mark Craig Carroll: <MC>     ||"In all seriousness of truth, hear this:
|| Univ of Delaware, Dept of CIS|| without the It, one cannot live. But
|| Grad Student/Labstaff Hacker || whoever lives with It alone is not
|| carroll@udel.edu             || human" - _I_and_Thou_, by Martin Buber
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