HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rose@src.honeywell.com (Fred Rose)
Subject: timing analysis tools
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:38:50 GMT



I am evaluating timing analysis and transmission line analysis tools.
I understand that Quantic and Quad are the leading candidates, now that
Swiftlogic has gone belly up. I am interested in doing boards and chips. I want
a nice integration with Mentor also. If anyone has experience,
recommendations, etc. I would appreciate it. A comparison with Quickpath might
be interesting. Has anyone successfully used Quickpath for boards?

I'll post a summary if I get enough responses

Thanks in advance
Fred

---------------------------------------------------------
Fred Rose                            
Honeywell Systems and Research Center
MS-2100                    e-mail: rose@src.honeywell.com            
3660 Technology Dr.        Phone : (612) 782-7106
Minneapolis, MN 55418      Fax   : (612) 782-7438
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------
Fred Rose                            
Honeywell Systems and Research Center
MS-2100                    e-mail: rose@src.honeywell.com            
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mentor:90 comp.sys.apollo:2227
From: frankt@cwi.nl (Frank Teusink)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor,comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Re: DAT drives on 425 (DOMAIN/OS)
Keywords: DAT Domain/OS wbak
Date: 10 Apr 92 08:58:44 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mentor

rknight@gec-rl-hrc.co.uk (Roger Knight (B21)) writes:

>Does anyone out there  know about using DAT 
>drives for backing up Apollos? I'm thinking
>of buying one to put on either a 425t or a
>DN4500 with Western Digital SCSI.

There exists a video8 backup-unit with a capacity of
2.2 Giga. The name of the company who sold it was Cyber.. Data 
Group (don't kill me if the name`s wrong, I can look it up if
you'r realy interested). We used it on a 425 with SCSI. 

>                                  Can you use
>Aegis wbak and rbak with them or do you need
>to use tar / dd / cpio?

We used wbak/rbak. Note that there is a problem with wbak under
SR 10. You can no longer overwrite a file-container > 1 without first
overwriting all previous file-containers.

>Thanks in advance
>-Roger Knight
>VLSI CAD Systems Administrator
>GEC-Marconi Hirst Research Centre
> 
Frank Teusink
frankt@cwi.nl

P.S. The have no apollo's at the CWI (as far as I know); I worked with
them when I was working for an other employer.
From: deepak@konark.njit.edu (Deepak S. Kakadasam)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor
Subject: Mentor Graphics (GDT) help!!!!!!
Date: 11 Apr 92 20:42:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

Hello folks,
	Does anybody know if Mentors GDT can run in X-window
	environment, specifically X-11 R5. If GDT is not supported by
	X-windows then under what env is it actually supposed to run, I
	mean by default.

	I'm at present running GDT in openwin on a sun platform(SPARC2).

	Somebody who can answer me please email me direct. Thank you
	Maybe I also need to rephrase this question. Any help will be 
	appreciated.....
*************************************************************************
Deepak S. Kakadasam                              deepak@konark.njit.edu
*************************************************************************
--
WYSIWYG
OTGDY
BLTN
DED
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor
From: aao@icd.ab.com (Al Onderick)
Subject: Pins on grid ???
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:16:13 GMT

Is it better to offset pads on SMT parts so the connect points fall on
a known grid or is it better just to leave the pad origin at the center
of the pad. My design experience with other systems tels me to leave it
on grid but the AE says it doesn't matter. Any input will be appreciated.

					Al Onderick
					Allen-Bradley Co.
					(216)646-5210


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor
From: volker@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Volker Hamann)
Subject: Re: Mentor Graphics (GDT) help!!!!!!
Reply-To: volker@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Volker Hamann)
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 08:43:29 GMT

In <1992Apr11.204237.160@njitgw.njit.edu> deepak@konark.njit.edu (Deepak S. Kakadasam) writes:

>Hello folks,
>	Does anybody know if Mentors GDT can run in X-window
>	environment, specifically X-11 R5. If GDT is not supported by
>	X-windows then under what env is it actually supposed to run, I
>	mean by default.

>	I'm at present running GDT in openwin on a sun platform(SPARC2).

>	Somebody who can answer me please email me direct. Thank you
>	Maybe I also need to rephrase this question. Any help will be
>	appreciated.....

GDT can run in an X-window environment, but unfortunately only in X10. Since
X11 is not downward-compatible to X10, you will have to use a native X10
environment.
At our department, we use "xtools", a more than buggy X10 implementation
for SUN Sparc2 platforms. Maybe it also runs with SunView (we never tried
that).
Maybe the next release of GDT will run in X11, but it will not very much
look the same as the old GDT version, as it's developed directly by Mentor
Graphics and no more by Silicon Compiler Systems.

	Volker Hamann
--
|   /| ! Volker Hamann              ! Email: volker@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at
|  / | ! Department for VLSI Design ! Phone: (++43 1) 58801-8142
|-/--| ! University of Technology   ! Fax:   (++43 1) 569697
|/   | ! Vienna, Austria              "IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE?"
From: john@hpsad.sad.hp.com (John Ruf)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:25:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Pins on grid ???
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor

scott@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Scott Colwell) writes:
> This works well for parts with only 2 or 3 pads and for parts that are
> pretty close to a 25thou grid but what do you recommend for metric pitches?
> You could define a set of pads for a part that place the pad origins on a
> 25thou grid but you end up needing one padstack per pin in the worst
> case.

> The sort of parts that I am concerned about are the Japanese style plastic
> quad-flat-packs with >100 pins.

  I agree with you, Scott. My comments were directed at parts with pins that
fall on some multiple of 25 mils. For metric spacings we just leave the pin
ID in the center of the pad and let the system do its best to get to it. What
I was trying to convey is to put as many parts as possible on a standard grid
then when you have to create special grids, its limited to fewer parts. Of
course in the worst case you may have a design that is largely big metric
parts with few others. In this case perhaps one should consider designing
the board in metric units?
From: chuck@edsi.plexus.COM (Chuck Tomasi)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor
Subject: Re: Need for Mentor to support version 7 under Domain/OS 10.4
Date: 12 Apr 92 01:43:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: edsi.1992Apr12.014316.22862
Organization: Enterprise Data Systems Incorporated, Appleton WI

timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider) writes:

:)I agreee.... We need support for mentor 7.0 at Domain/OS 10.4 !

A big question will be... Is it possible to run 7.0 under 10.4.  Rumor
has it that VUE will be the user interface of choice with 10.4, however
even if there is an XDM (Xwindow version of Display Manager) it may not
be robust enough to support the GPR calls and other facilities that 7.0
makes upon DM under previous versions.  From what I've heard (again,
unsupported) XDM will NOT be as full featured as DM is today.  It will
merely be there as a transition method and allow some backwards
compatibility.

These facts are from memory from reading various HP upgrade and
operability papers.
-- 
Chuck Tomasi             |     "Mom, it's Data.  I heard you know
chuck@edsi.plexus.COM    |      how to turn him on." 
spool!cserver!edsi!chuck |                    -Wesley  "Datalore"
------<Enterprise Data Systems Incorporated, Appleton Wisconsin>------
From: john@hpsad.sad.hp.com (John Ruf)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:17:56 GMT
Subject: Re: Pins on grid ???
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor

  The Mentor system will route to offgrid pins. It does it by getting to the
nearest grid intersection to the actual pin ID and then making one final 1
or 2 segment route to the offgrid point (will make one right angle bend). The
difficulty comes if you want to merge in an odd grid for these offgrid points
with your normal routing grid. There may be many reasons for doing this. Its
most important for fine pitch surface mount parts (pin spacings of 25 mils or
less, or some metric spacing). In order to block the least route paths you want
to come straight out of a pad and go to a via to get to inner layers (in many
cases). If the router first jogs to get to the normal route grid, you will
block more routing area than if you create and merge a special grid in the
area of these weird parts (so thats why you would want to use special grids).
  Most parts which are not metric have a pin spacing which falls on some
multiple of a 25 mil pin grid in at least 1 axis. If you will pick a point
in the other axis which is on a 25 mil grid (but may not be the center of the
pad) you will reduce the number of extra grid points you need to create for
offgrid pins. This in turn reduces total routing memory and time and may
improve the pin entry (in some cases).
  We have tried it both ways and determined that putting all pins (except
metric ones) on a 25 mil multiple will give us the best routing overall. The
extra time spent in creating offset pads is well worth it. We use a company-
wide library so any efforts spent in making the library work as well as
possible is leveraged many times over.

  Sorry that I don't have any quantitative data on the results of both methods
but our overall consensus was that on grid pins can only help us, never hurts.

Xref: sparky comp.sys.mentor:107 comp.lang.vhdl:235
From: rknight@gec-rl-hrc.co.uk (Roger Knight (B21))
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor,comp.lang.vhdl
Subject: Re: Mentor, Genesil and VHDL
Summary: Genesil to AutoLogic transition
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:17:49 GMT
Reply-To: rknight@hrc63.UUCP (Roger Knight )
Organization: GEC Hirst Research Centre

In article <EKREM.92Apr14152333@guam.vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at> ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban) writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.112814.19965@syma.sussex.ac.uk> martinwh@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Martin White) writes:
>
>   My group has been and were planning to carry on using Mentor graphics
>   Genesil but we have heard that Mentor are/have dropped Genesil.  can
>   anyone tell me why and what is there philosophy on replacing it with
>   another ASIC route to silicon.
>
>I was at the annual regional meeting of German speaking Mentor users
>in St. Augustin, FRG, this March. They told there that parts of
>Genesil will be put together with GDT. I do not think that the idea of
>.
>.

The tool which Mentor are promoting as a replacement to Genesil is
AutoLogic - it started life in the GDT environment but is now a separate
tool.  I've been told one of the main reasons for dropping Genesil is
the cost of supporting the full custom libraries/process mappings which
MGC have to do themselves.  AutoLogic uses the Si vendor's own semi-custom
parts libraries.  There is a macro parts library with AutoLogic which is
very similar to Genesil's (its actually written in FCX so I suppose it
could be the Genesil module generators).  Having used Genesil in the
past and found it never had the part we actually wanted we didn't even
look at the "LogicLib", but up until a few months ago used the M synthesis
to create gate level netlists from RTL level M.

The synthesised netlist is in gen_lib parts and AutoLogic does logic
optimisation on those to map it to a specific Si library.

We've almost stopped using M synthesis in favour of the VHDL front-end
and I don't think we will see any more development of the M route - the
VHDL gives a lot more scope for writing HD's than M anyway!

If you've got M descriptions in GDT that you want to synthesise, beware:
it only supports a subset (basically RTL) and you have to "#ifdef" out
the BUILD and INITIALIZE blocks. Hence, you can't synthesise hierarchical
M and if your reset signals are implicit in the INITIALIZE they won't
get implemented in hardware (unlike the VHDL synthesis).

We didn't have a problem with that because we actually wrote Quicksim BLM's
then put a new wrapper around the function body to make it into M for
synthesis.

Hope this answers some of questions over Genesil,

Roger Knight           rknight@gec-rl-hrc.co.uk
GEC-Marconi Hirst Reseach Centre,
Wembley, UK

DISCLAIMER: I said it NOT my company. If any of it is wrong its not
my fault.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor,comp.lang.vhdl
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Subject: Re: Mentor, Genesil and VHDL
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 14:23:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.112814.19965@syma.sussex.ac.uk> martinwh@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Martin White) writes:

   My group has been and were planning to carry on using Mentor graphics
   Genesil but we have heard that Mentor are/have dropped Genesil.  can
   anyone tell me why and what is there philosophy on replacing it with
   another ASIC route to silicon.
[...]

   You might ask why don't I read the manuals but the problem is they are
   on CDROM and we have not received the licence files to allow us to
   browse the online information.

I was at the annual regional meeting of German speaking Mentor users
in St. Augustin, FRG, this March. They told there that parts of
Genesil will be put together with GDT. I do not think that the idea of
generating layouts from RTL is dead now, or that Mentor has changed
its idea. No representative of Mentor in the meeting told about such
considerations. I first thought that Mentor V.8 is the combined
version of GDT and Genesil, but later heard that this is not (?) the
case. 

Bye,



















   --
	   Martin White, VLSI and Graphics Research Group,
	   EAPS II, University of Sussex, Falmer, BRIGHTON, East Sussex, BN1 9Qt
	   TEL: +44 273 606755 x 2617
	   EMAIL: (JANET) martinwh@syma.sussex.ac.uk | (UUCP) ...mcsun!ukc!syma!martinwh
--

_________________________________________________________________ _ _______
     ________  	A. Ekrem SABAN		 /    Technische Universitat Wien
   /|    |    ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at/ Inst. f. Technische Informatik
  /_|__  |__			       /	     Abt. HW & VLSI  
 /  |       |		      	      /Tel   : (1)58801/8144 ( 7-13 UTC)
/   |___ ___|			     /Adr.: Treitlstr. 3, A-1040 Wien.
From: tracye@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Tracy Evans)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:22:54 GMT
Subject: Re: KSH history recall
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor



hmmm, I had to export EDITOR=vi before I could get the escape key to work
correctly.. but I use sys5.3..  Your mileage may vary...

tracy
From: porphano@calvin.sfc.lehigh.edu (Paul A. Orphanos)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor
Subject: Led V5.2.1 on Sun not exiting
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:47:55 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mentor
Organization: Microelectronics Lab, Lehigh University, Bethlehem, Pa.


I have a user here who's a heavy Led user, and many times when he
quits Led before exiting OpenWindows, Led does'nt die, but keeps running
in the background, sucking all the cpu time up (a cpu monitor is pinned high).

Could this be one of those reasons I need to go to SunOS 4.1.2 (along with
all the other dire warnings in the Mentor release notes, like that I need
64Mb of memory and 200Mb of swap?).

Thanks in advance,
paul

--- 
Paul A. Orphanos                          pao0@lehigh.edu
Microelectronics Research Laboratory      porphano@calvin.sfc.lehigh.edu
Lehigh University, Bethlehem, Pa.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mentor

In comp.sys.mentor, esther@rayssd.ssd.ray.com (Esther A. Paris) writes:

>Subject: Please help me find something to help my injured wrists heal!

Well you took the first step that I would suggest- throw out your mouse.

Second step: don't use any click-and-drag software since it puts tremendous
             stress on your arm.

(3) Make sure that your elbows are bent about 90 degrees with your upper arm
    pretty much straight down by your side and lower arms straight forward.
    If you have to reach beyond this posture change your setup.

(4) Don't type with wrists bent sideways or backwards- look in any typing
    training manual or piano lesson guide for correct wrist/finger
    position and motions.

(5) Support your wrists- a movable support (ERGO ARM  Callen Associates
   4121 Partdridge Drive  San Jose  CA  95121-1011  408-274-1470)
   that attaches to my desk works very well for me.

   Any decent ergonomic chair manufacturer will have equivalent which 
   attaches to the chair- sorry- I have seen these but have no specifics.

(6) Get a decent chair- must be adjustable to make (3) feasible.

(7) Definitely don't underestimate the damage that you have already done
    to your wrists.

(8) An alternative to the mouse that works well for me is to use a graphics
    tablet. The absolute positioning requires much less cursor movement
    and hence less injury. 

and finally

(9) see a health professional trained in RMI.

good luck

Stan Bischof
formerly injured but mostly better now
Hewlett Packard
Network Measurements Division
From: stricher@masig3.ocean.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Which Mac-II : II-si or II-ci ?
Date: 12 Apr 92 04:24:44 GMT
Distribution: na

Jae Chan Oh writes

+ I am trying to decide which Mac I should buy: MacII-ci or MacII-si?
+ 
+ I need advices based on experiences on these machines.
+ Is MacII-ci worth of the money? Would I feel the real difference on speed 
+ of the machines?  What are the possible advantages of using MacII-ci over
+ MacII-si rather than speed of the machines?
+ How important in Mac world using a color monitor?
+ I'm planning to run Mathematica and several compilers for programming  
languages
+ on my new machine.

A ci is faster than the si, and has more expandability than the si. Both
have built-in color monitor support, eliminating the need for a video 
card. But there can be a performance loss because they both use main
ram, and not specialized video ram. I beat that by putting a 8 bit color
card into my ci.

+ 
+ One more question: Do Macintoshes have the similar problem as in DOS's 640K 
+ memory barrier? I'm tired of having the "out of memory error" even though 

No. A ci can access up to 128mb of memory under system 7 - 8 16mb simms, and a
si (I think) 65mb. And you can use virtual memory on both the ci and the si.

If you can swing it, get the ci & color monitor. If not, the si is a solid
machine. 

James
From: jdoskow@ichinen.Tymnet.COM (Jonathan Doskow)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Request for help printing Postscript(tm) file.
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:05:03 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)


I have just received on my sun some apple postscript files that
start this way.

%%Title: "Laser Prep -- The Apple PostScript Dictionary (md)"
%%Creator: Apple Software Engineering
%%CreationDate: Thursday, March 19, 1987
%{appledict version #70 0
% ) CopyRight Apple Computer, Inc. 1984-89 All Rights Reserved.
%%EndComments

I've been able to get them on floppy using bar and transfer them to an
in-house Mac using suntar, but have not been able to read them into any
of the wp packages ( MS-Word, Word Perfect, and MacWrite II ) in such a
way that they could be interpreted as postscript and printed as opposed
to plain text.

Does anyone know how to do this?

Anger and none can heal it slides through the metal detector
Like a mole in a motel, slide in a slide projector.

Opinions expressed are those of the author.  jdoskow@Tymnet.COM
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
From: jblue@mwunix.mitre.org (Jason D. Blue)
Subject: Disappearing folder - detectable under System 6?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 22:51:50 GMT

I am in the process of writing System 7 installation instructions, and it would
be convinient to have the installer run the Disk First Aid program to search for
the disappearing folder bug BEFORE the actual install (and right after the
backup :-).

Any problem doing it in this manner?  Will Disk First Aid detect the error
before updating the disk's boot block?  How about after the boot update but
before System 7 is installed?

Thank you,

Jason D. Blue
Technical Support
The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Color QD in a Plus
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1992 04:19:09 GMT

 Steven> == Steven Eric Fuller <sef3179@tamsun.tamu.edu> 

 Steven> Can anyone explain to me why a Mac Plus doesn't have 32-bit Quickdraw?
[...]
 Steven> I just don't see any hardware reason not to have QCD.

Color QuickDraw uses (and requires) 68020 instructions.

In theory, you could have an accelerated Plus with ROMs from a 680[234]0
machine, in which case you would have another Mac in a Plus case with
Color QuickDraw. ;-)

That's why it's in the SE/30 but not the SE, and in the Classic II (I
presume) but not the Classic.
--
Christopher Davis <ckd@eff.org> |    ECONOMIC OBSERVATIONS DEPARTMENT
System Manager & Postmaster     |  "There's always something going out of
Electronic Frontier Foundation  |      business in Central Square."
+1 617 864 0665  NIC: [CKD1]    |   -Rita Marie Rouvalis <rita@eff.org>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: price@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu (John Price)
Subject: Re: internal speaker in a IIsi problem...
Reply-To: price@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA Particle Physics Research Group
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 03:48:21 GMT

dave@prc.unisys.com (David Lee Matuszek) writes:
> It is a well-known phenomenon that the sound vanishes from time to
> time on the Mac IIsi.  

	[...]

> The three main theories are:
> (1) Corrosion build-up on the speaker contacts.
> (2) Erroneous use of the sound manager by applications.
> (3) A persistent bug in the operating system.

I have a IIsi, and I have yet to have any problems with the sound.  Is mine 
broken?  :)

           John Price * * * * price@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu
           Where there is no solution, there is no problem.
From: tperreau@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (The Mad Scot)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Running OLD GAMES on a NEW MAC
Date: 13 Apr 92 06:06:48 GMT
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM

In article <7505@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> bakker@cs.uq.oz.au writes:
>I have just bought a Mac Classic II. My previous Mac, which I sold
>3 years ago, was a Mac Plus.
>Unfortunately, a lot of the old games I have on disk (like Airborne,
>Dark Castle I & II, etc) now do not seem to work on the Classic II.
>Can anyone tell me why not? I've tried copying the program files
>to the hard disk and running them from there, and I've also tried
>booting off the games disk (this usually crashes the system).
>
>I've got a horrible suspicion that the Classic II can not handle
>old Finders, and that these games depend on them..... someone please
>tell me I'm wrong.....!
>
>
>thanks for any advice, hints, etc
>paultje
>--
>PaulBakker ------------------------------------- email:bakker@cs.uq.oz.au
>Depts.ofComputerScience/Psychology,UniversityofQueensland,Qld4072,Australia
>
>"He who slings mud is sure to lose ground" - Lady Flo 

I've had this problem too - esp. Balance of Power, The Ancient Art of
War, and Defender of the Crown.  The only thing I can offer (and what
seems to work for me) is to put the game(s) on floppy with a System
that you know the game(s) work under, and proceed from there.


-- 
================================================================================
Tony Perreault, High Tech Babysitter & Nanny	tperreau@zia.aoc.nrao.edu
Array Operations, Very Large Array	      All opinions expressed are my
Socorro, NM				        own and not those of NRAO
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc