From: lynch@ils.nwu.edu (Richard Lynch)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: men crossing the street at night to avo
Date: 7 Jan 1993 22:39:19 GMT
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Distribution: world
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Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <1id49bINNbo9@agate.berkeley.edu> andyw@meaddata.com writes:
>In article 1i5etpINNgmd@agate.berkeley.edu, gds@FICUS.CS.UCLA.EDU (Greg Skinner) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec31.220108.22376@informix.com> Robert Hartman writes:
>>>Well, insofar as it is customary for men to avoid frightening each
>>>other when out and about at night--unless they're looking for
>>>trouble--this helps other men spot the loonies and take evasive or
>>>defensive action in plenty of time.  So while it doesn't completely
>>>eliminate the risk, I think it helps.
>>
>>It has never been my experience that men cross the street, or for that
>>matter, move away, when they are approaching each other late at night.
>>In situations where I felt threatened, I moved away or crossed the
>>street.
>
>I'd have to agree with Greg here... I've never heard of someone crossing
>the street so as not to intimidate someone else... I have only heard of it
>in response to being intimidated.

I don't about as crossing the street, but certainly people re-arrange
themselves [in terms of physical space] when another person arrives. For
example, when you're walking down the sidewalk and see somebody coming directly
for you, you veer off to the right [ok, usually the right in the US, other
cultures; other customs] far in advance of actually being in danger of running
each other over.

And at a bus/train stop a similar thing occurs in terms of seating/standing
space.  People in the US [and Western society in general?] tend to choose seats
and standing positions that will give a certain amount of distance between
them.  [Actually, I was once told that in Bangladesh, and presumably other
similar cultures, people tend sit right next to--physically touching--each
other.]

Anyway, my point is that you already do this to some extent with all people,
and have a complex set of 'rules' for how much space to give different people
based on their looks.  [eg, people generally keep more distance between them-
selves and street people.]  Of course, there is a wide variation between
people on this, and even with one individual depending on mood, recent events,
and deity knows what else.

I know that I tend to give women more space in situations that include one or
more of the following:
Only me and the woman
Dark or enclosing space (eg, underpasses)
Places with limited exits/access.
I don't think I've ever gone so far as to cross the street, but to walk a
little faster or slower or at one edge of the sidewalk is common for me.

I have also noticed women who were fearful and visibly relieved when I have
done this, and it is such a minor inconvenience that I don't mind at all.

>Seems kind of silly to me... if I were a woman and a man crossed the street 
>to obviously avoid me, I'd probably either confused or insulted.  And if I
>were a black woman, I'd probably assume that it was someone who was 
>stereotypically afraid of a black face.

I think one would be be able to tell the difference between somebody trying to
insult/avoid and somebody trying to reduce stress/fear by body language...

>It is an interesting subject, what do most women feel is appropriate 
>behavior... turning your head and ignoring a person is pretty cold and
>rude, crossing the street seems insulting, and obviously, saying "yo mamma, 
>lookin fine tonight" is not appropriate either.  
>
>I typically either nod my head in greeting, or say "good evening" or
>something like that.  

While Dayton is hardly Mayberry (sp?), there are differences in appropriate
behavior in various cities, and in different parts of cities.  Nodding your
head or saying 'good evening' is not always appropriate.
-- 
-- 
--
-- "TANSTAAFL"     Rich lynch@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu


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