From: mccall3080@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: is it necessary to hate?
Date: 17 Dec 92 09:49:22 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <tpT=2j-@engin.umich.edu>, ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles) writes:
> In article <910773f.37.724537200@axe.acadiau.ca> 910773f@axe.acadiau.ca (HEATHER LEE FYFFE) writes:
> [one mondo deletion]
>> What atheists lack, among those who wish to help mankind, is the sense of 
>>community and support experienced in Christianity.
> 
>  Funny, I have a lot of close friends and family that provide me with
> a lot of support. No only that, Alpha Phi Omega, the national coed
> service organization I belong to, has given me many precious friendships
> while giving me and others the chance to work for the good of the
> community. I guess I must be mistaken, though.
> 
>>                                                   A religion (or non-
>>religion) that teaches complete individualism, separatism, and me-ism can 
>>never have the kind of powerful, loving, selfless bondings of friendships 
>>which develop in Christianity, powerful friendships which all people need.
> 
>  First, of course, individualism != separatism != me-ism, nor are any of
> these necessary adjuncts of atheism. (Purely out of curiosity, have you
> read the FAQ?)
>  I think the fact that I've only this life to live is powerful motivation
> to make this world a nicer place to live in. In addition, since I believe
> this is the only chance anybody gets, simple human compassion (oh, yes, I
> have one of those, I guess there was an oversight at the plant and they
> installed one by mistake) says to me that I should help others out- I
> would feel bad if I didn't help someone and could have.
> 
>>The modern pop psychology is all based on do-it-yourself, be your own boss, 
>>how to get ahead of everyone else.  Chart your own path, make it to the 
>>top. 
> 
>  Even if this were true (and it is, at best, an oversimplification) can you
> convincingly link this with atheism? I hardly think the majority of people
> are atheists...
> 
>>     Can you imagine what the world would be like if everybody did that?  
>>Take advantage of them before they take advantage of you.  Complete 
>>dissappearance of trust, because you know everyone else is out to get ahead 
>>of you.  No cooperation, no unity, no true friendships.  Everyone just out 
>>to better themself.
> 
>  The last sentence does not follow from the first set. Have you ever heard
> of the iterated prisoner's dilemma?
> 
>>                    End result?  Need I explain?  Not too pretty, is it.
>>Unfortunately, that's where we're heading, and none too slowly, either.
>>  Well, there's my dollar's worth for today.  Thanks for reading me!
> 
>  I actually think that if all people acted in their own *enlightened* self-
> interest this world would be a far better place. It's only when people are
> stupid in their self-interest (i.e. greedy) that problems arise.
> 
>>Love from 
>>the Buzzard
> 
> 
> Ray Ingles            


I just wanted to add my two cents worth.  I agree with what you say Ray.  I
think it is very possible to care for people and to want better for this world
even if you know that you are going to die and that is it.  I tried explaining
this to a good Christian friend I have and she couldn't understand me.  She
says that it is from the Bible and knowing that there is an afterlife that
keeps her wanting to live and to go on improving if she can.  What would
possibly motivate me to do good and want to live if I knew I would just die
anyway?  I don't know, but I am here and I like living and I want the people
behind me to experience the same pleasures that I was allowed.
Melissa
Newsgroups: alt.atheism