HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ruthless@panix.com (Ruth Ditucci)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: How formative years' education can ruin an adult male pakistani
Keywords: pakistani, fool, terrorist, oppression, labor laws
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:59:51 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

One of the most interesting temporary jobs I had recently was working for
a Pakistani.  He told me he'd grown up in a poor Pakistani village and
that he remembers there was little to eat.  Having obtained a western
education, he's worked his way up through a well known hotel chain's
ranks to that of the New York Resident Manager.  It was sad and humorous
to see a man draped and dressed in New York's finest suits and custom
shirts because when he opened his mouth- his two dollar upbringing was
totally obvious.  He would constantly remark/ask whether I'd noticed
if his shirts were right or if his suit was "correct."  He could probably
feed his entire home town with the price of one of his suits (which fit
badly).  

Not having a full understanding of american labor laws, he's in constant
conflict with the unions, the eeo and what ever other agencies protect
people from such terrorists.  I remember a day when one of the accountants
didn't submit a more datailed report- he summarily dressed the man up and
down (in full view and ear shot of his contemporaries).  The man was an
older worker (not valued in Pakistan).  In contrast, I also noticed that
this Pakistani didn't abuse tall white men- he only bullied old men and
women- yes, women of all ages.  

When I went to work for him, he had already gone through several people in
the position.  Once I met him, I understood why, he was a spineless little
coward who only preyed on people he knew he could harm without consequence.
Unfortunately for him, he didn't notice the good looking american manager
who's being groomed to replace him.  Fortunately for every one at the
New York Hilton and Towers, it's just a matter of time before the emperor's
dethroned.  The New York Hilton and Towers has built a reputation on
their employees' behavior to both guests as well as staff.  They won't
tolerate this tyrant's tantrums for long.  It's not only costly in terms
of reputation and a mark on their fine name- they don't want to get
sued by all those people who might join together in a class action suit
against the hotel chain.  As for most executives who've met him and seen
him operate- they're already taking their business to the Sheraton accross
the street.

Imagine that, he thought his big mouth wouldn't cost him!!!  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Subject: Re: NATIONAL LANGUAGE
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 21:00:49 GMT

In article <8ePgC4q00VAw8KU28L@andrew.cmu.edu>, ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta) writes:
> 
> Actually this national language thing is another distraction.
> A small country like Belgium has *TWO* languages, and has held
> together for quite a while (look at your history books). It is
> basically because no-one has felt the need to `uniformize' the
> people. When you stop trying to do that, people stop viewing
> each other with suspicion.
> 
> The myth of nation-building in India and Pakistan has been that
> everyone must fit one mold. That is why our nations are moldy.
> 
> -arun gupta


Everybody who tried UNIFORMITY as nation building
theory has failed.
All one religion, one race, one color nation-building
theories are examples of UNIFORMITY.

DIVERSITY is new national building theory. It seems
to be working pretty good in USA. 

In fact, I see no option in the long term except
DIVERSITY. 

regards,

-Naveed
From: khan@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: First Pakistani MD-PhD!
Date: 27 Jul 92 09:17:02 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

  Too much 'scholarship' is not good. Should pay
more attention to developing 'spirituality'
and thus, arriving at Reality and not the Image.
People who read too many books make twenty
questions of one question, and cut up Truth
so that puny minds can 'analyze' it,
in compartmentalized form. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: symanzik@frith.msu.edu ()
Subject: Pakistan to get internet connection
Originator: symanzik@frith.egr.msu.edu
Organization: Michigan State University, College of Engineering
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 17:01:38 GMT

The director here at MSU's College of Engineering recently spent some time
with the National University of Science and Technology, in Rawalpindi, Pakistan
showing them how to set up an internet connection.  He informed me that we 
have agreed to provide temporary dial-in email access until they can get 
connected.

While I'm sure this is good news to most of you, I was rather dismayed that
these poor folks will be reading email over such a long distance call.
Certainly there must be someone on that side of the planet who can provide
them with a temporary account.  

I am not familiar with Pakistani-Indian relations but I know that India is 
well connected to the internet.  Would it be worth my time to ask this in 
soc.cultures.india?

---
Ed Symanzik
Michigan State University
symanzik@egr.msu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: durrani@seas.gwu.edu (Daaqoo)
Subject: test
Originator: durrani@seas.gwu.edu
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:51:11 GMT

	Nothing serious. Just a test.
From: qs@haithem.cray.com (Qasim M. Sheikh)
Subject: Re: Muhajirs in Sindh
Reply-To: qs@haithem.cray.com (Qasim M. Sheikh)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 22 Jul 92 08:00:12 CDT


In article <1992Jul22.004321.11541@newton.ccs.tuns.ca>, jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali) writes:

|> 
|> It's encouraging that at least some people do not consider talking 
|> rationally about the country we care about as some kind of sacrilege.
|> 
|> WHO DECIDED THAT URDU BE MADE THE "NATIONAL LANGUAGE" OF PAKISTAN... if anything
|> can be _made_ the national language? Whatever happenned to Sir Agha Khan's 
|> suggestion that if there aught to be _one_ official language, it should be 
|> Arabic. We may not agree with his religious ideology, but we should give him
|> credit for at least this particular idea. No other language is related to Islam
|> more than Arabic. For those more than 90% people of Pakistan who did not know
|> Urdu before partition, learning Arabic would not have been very much more 
|> difficult... Also, how many people would have put so much more effort to learn
|> the language. How it would have helped Pakistan, an intellectually more stable
|> nation than other Muslim countries, to serve as a leader in evolving the Islamic
|> thought, by bringing Pakistan closer to rest of the Islamic world.
|> 
|> Arabic is not less known to us than it was in 1947. If we want to have one
|> official language in Pakistan, let that be Arabic.
|> 
|> Nadeem
|> 
|> ps: one gentleman whose last name I forget (his first name was probably Jawahar)
|> had sent me his comments when I posted above things last year. He was critical
|> about the mere idea. But there wasn't any response on the net (if I recall).
|> 
|> -- 
|> Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
|> 						 
|> School of Computer Science			  
|> Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882  

I agree with Nadeem whole heartedly.  It is still not too late. Considering
the fact that close to 70+% of Pakistanis do not know how to read and write
and their knowledge of Urdu is at a very minimal level.  If Arabic, Urdu and
a regional language is spoken at home, future generations will learn all 3 very
quickly.  Kids are the best language learners.
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: memories, like the corners of my ..................
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:56:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

From: dogar@rtsg.mot.com (Haroon H. Dogar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Quwattay bazooay Muslim nay kiya kaam Tera..
Keywords: Pakistan,capital


replace bazoo with bandook :)


>The question seems very simple to me. Ask most Pakistanis if they
>would rather have the rule of Allah or the rule of Kufr [devoid of
>any specific implementations], and I think that they will go with
>Allah. The question goes to the very heart of who we are. If we
>are able to filter out all of the prejudices that we have developed
>and we are able to ignore the bad experiences which we have faced
>from those purporting to be "religious," and we look into the 
>foundations of our conviction and faith, Muslims will say yes.
>Yes, given the choice, we would like to follow Allah's commands.
>It was true in '47, it's true today.

I agree completely about the choice and how people spoke for their
choice in one voice during Zia's referendum. 
<insert as many winks here as you want, I am tired>



>-hd

>jehra vi hans kay bohlay mein tabaydaaran

jehra vi jota maray sir tay, mein tabaydaaran.



Naveed
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: debchat@vax2.concordia.ca (DEB CHATTERJEE)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Islamic World News and False Claims.
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:52:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <2809@ucl-cs.uucp>, B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk writes...
>........ (stuff deleted) ..... 
>I hope Mr Omar or anyone else will desist making such claims in future 
>just to support onesided news posted in the name of Islamic World News.
> 
>With Best Regards,
> 
>bkumar

 B.Kumar's rebuttal adds a new voice to my (and many others) original doubts 
 regarding the validity of the `truths' projected by IWA (Islamic World News).
 Such an effort is very timely indeed. 

 - deb chatterjee
(A GOOD SAMARITAN)
From: khan@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: The Buddha of Suburbia..
Date: 25 Jul 92 17:31:02 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

  Hanif Qureshi and others who reside in the west
with blackened hearts in their chests are NOT
representative in any way, personally or
with whatever they create thru their 'talents'
[films, novels, etc.] of the culture of
Pakistan. They, like Rushdie, are unsuccessful
tools in the hands of those who hate
the street-smart nation of Pakistan for
the balls that we have as compared to other
third world nations, and even the so-called
'advanced & superior' nations. 
  'My Beautiful Laundrette', 'Samie & Rosie'
and 'Buddha of Suburbia' are all unsuccessful
attempts at defaming and mocking us, but
Pakistanis do not care.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: hasan@vxcrna.cern.ch 
Subject: Re: return of bayt-baazi
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:13:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.020939.13623@newton.ccs.tuns.ca>, jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali) writes...
>Come on guys cheer up... Here is my all time favourite... brings back memories..
>Yes!! guess what... Even Sindhis have memories :) :)
> 
>	baRee raushnee bakhshtai hai(n) nazar ko
>	tairay gaysu'oan kay muqaddas  andhairay
> 
>	yai.....
> 
>Nadeem
> 
>-- 
>Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
>						 
>School of Computer Science			  
>Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882  

Now this was a good one after such hackneyed stuff in the previous
series. Wah SaaiN wah! And so I reciprocate:

	yeh jeevan ik balak saaiN
	mann bhaidoN ka gullak saaiN
	beyshak saaiN beyshak saaiN

	noon...

-Hasan
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:12581 soc.culture.indian:25528
From: khan@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: ESKRIMA: Fencing Classes in Sunnyvale
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:08:37 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA





              CLASSES OFFERED IN ESKRIMA [STICK-FIGHTING/FENCING]
              IN SUNNYVALE, NORTHERN CALIFORNIA


              GROUP CLASSES for adults and teenagers:

              Saturday & Sunday Mornings
              @ FAIROAKS PARK, near the Tennis Courts,
              near Fairoaks & Wolfe, in Sunnyvale.
              11:30 am to 1:00 pm, usually 90 min to 2 hours.
              First Class is free, all equipment provided.
               
              PRIVATE CLASSES for adults and children:

              At your home, by appointment. First class is free,
              all equipment provided. 


              
     ESKRIMA: Originally from the island of SUMBA, in the Flores Sea,
     practiced and developed in Kalimantan and the Philippines,
     this is primarily a weapon-based art utilizing Short and
     Long sticks. We use hard wood sticks for learning 
     the techniques, and soft plastic sticks for sparring.
     Excellent art for learning the attributes of Precision,
     Hand-eye-foot coordination, Distancing, Speed, 
     Perception, for Self Defense and for Cleansing and Relaxing.
     Safe and Considerate teaching. Friendly group of people
     from professional backgrounds.

     The Teacher: Khalid Khan, 13th graduate of the Serrada Academy
     of late master Saleh Angel Cabales. Published & featured
     in "Inside Kungfu" magazine in Los Angeles, June 1990.
              
                     ---------------------
                     Phone: [408] 749-8322
                     ---------------------          
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: aftab@siri.unit.no (Aftab Ali Khokhar)
Subject: Sindh and Mr. Jamali
Organization: Norwegian Instt. of Technology
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 21:21:20 GMT

Why it is difficult for some of us to understand that the ideology of
Pakistan changed with change of pakistan on the world map (1971)

When MQM can give identity to some people (sorry to say) and to those
people who really are most qualified and sober (not any longer) can
go after some cheap nationalist slogans created by some nuts then tell
me where should go the people of sindh where the literacy rate is 14%
(Arun Gupta).

Since my childhood I heared about Nationalish parties belong to Walli
Khan and G.M. Syed but I never heared that GM Syed or any other
Nationalist group have any success during the small history of Sind in
the Pakistan. And suddenly came the MQM from nowhere and with slogans 
similar to slogans in sindh with no success and became the most
popular party amoung the people of urban sindh. Burning houses of
sindhies in Karachi and mistreating local sindhies.

If this is the ideology brought by people of UP and Bihar I would
like to give Karachi to these people and keep the rest of Sind,
Punjab, NWFP and Buluchistan clean.
From: sl57h@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: My share of jokes.
Date: 29 Jul 92 10:52:45 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

This is in reply to Mr. Ramakrishnan's post.
I had written at the very start that the jokes are in Punjabi. In Punjabi the
word "phar'di" can be used in lieu of "griftari". But in English `hold' is not
used as a substitute of `arrest'. I had to use word `hold' and I thought,
though mistakenly in your case, that those who know Punjabi/Urdu/Hindi will
understand. Those were the pivotal words in the joke and changing them meant
`no joke'. I hope now you understand. If not then ask some of your Punjabi
friend to explain it to you.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan)
Subject: Re: national language
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 05:33:41 GMT

In article <BrpA00.IKs@acsu.buffalo.edu> memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon) writes:
>From: nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
>Subject: Re: Muhajirs in Sindh
>Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
>
>>The point is that Urdu, while not being the mother tongue of the majority
>>in Pakistan, is clearly the most widely understood .. I have only come
>>across one Pakistani in my life who could not understand or talk in Urdu!
>


There is one solution and that is to incorporate words of othere regional
languages into urdu.
I have found myself using punjabi and english words when i speak urdu. So 
what is the harm ...................... some punjabi words have soo much
more emphasis.

sahibzada rafay khan[]

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed)
Subject: Re: Pakistan Friendship Club
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 19:48:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.184343.57707@cc.usu.edu> slbxk@cc.usu.edu writes:
>
>
>                   FRIENDSHIP CLUB
>
>
>     We are all far away from home, home town, home city, home
>motherland. We each have the same dreams, dreaming about pursuing
>a higher degree in education, accomplishing a wonderful task in
>our own life, getting a satisfying job, climbing to a higher
>class in life... But we feel lonely, terribly lonely, we need
>friends, and love. Loneliness is like a killer, threatening us
>every friday evening, saturday, sunday, holidays, even in daily
>life. Why not let us gather together to get rid of loneliness, to
>find ourselves companionship, to enjoy love or friendship! Let's
>provide ourselves to the society and meet many people and choose
>the one we want to be with, the one we love, but we have not met
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I suggest we follow the advice of our resident sage, Sahibzada
Rafay Khan.  Please read his fatwa regarding blondes.

U


Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed)
Subject: Re: Fun Days at Sadiq Public School
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 23:30:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.142325.30397@davidsys.com> khan@davidsys.com writes:


	[STUFF DELETED]

>Each Saturday night they ran a movie
>at the on-campus theatre and everyone was
>supposed to be dressed for the occasion.
>That was the night when enterprising chaps
>would jump the wall and go to town for
>forbidden fun. And what was the forbidden
>fun ? > watching a Panjabi or Urdu movie
>at the Rainbow cinema or Firdous cinema.
>Some would go to the river for boating
>at night. Very clean and innocent lifestyle.
>If you sat with us, you would not understand
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
SOME WOULD ARGUE THEY STILL DON'T.  :-)  :-)

>our conversation and our sense of humor.
>It was all very localised.
>
>                 regards, Khalid Khan


Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: aftab@siri.unit.no (Aftab Ali Khokhar)
Subject: Military Blue Fox
Organization: Norwegian Instt. of Technology
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 20:37:18 GMT

Now I understand why it was called Blue Fox (Nille Lumarhi)
I think MQM aked for it. If you make Karachi like Landi Kotal (NWFP)
what do you expect from government.
Anyway this not first military action in Pakistan
Military actions in Sind during Zia's era
(Univ. Jamshore, Dadu action which takes as many lives)
Military actions in Baluchistan during ZA Bhutto era

and not least
Series of Military Actions in the former East Pakistan (Bangladesh)

So cool down and wait for the next one

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Subject: Re: Learning Urdu
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:10:46 GMT

Following two books might be of interest:

Title: A course in Baluchi
Authors: Abd-al-Rahman Barker and Aquil Khan Mengal
Imprint: Montreal, Institute of Islamic Studies, McGill University, 1969
Description: 2 volumes

Title: A course in Urdu
Authors: Abd-al-Rahman Barker and others (that's what it says)
Imprint: Montreal, Institute of Islamic Studies, McGill University, 1967
Description: 3 volumes

I have had a chance to take a look at the first one. I believe it is a
well organised one year course. Audio cassettes are a part of the course.
I found it quite impressive. The course in Urdu (developed by the same
author) can be expected to be equally impressive.

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: vu0208@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (!)
Subject: Re: First Pakistani MD-PhD!
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:18:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.091702.30404@davidsys.com> khan@davidsys.com writes:
>  Too much 'scholarship' is not good. Should pay
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>more attention to developing 'spirituality'
>and thus, arriving at Reality and not the Image.
>People who read too many books make twenty
>questions of one question, and cut up Truth
>so that puny minds can 'analyze' it,
>in compartmentalized form. 


IQRA = Read
Read = acquire knowledge and scholarship


go figure the rest!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: sankar@hal.COM (Sankar Bandy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Why Do We Propagate Our ReligionS
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:51:03 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: quality.hal.com

In article <1992Jul23.080418.22335@cc.uow.edu.au> g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh) writes:
>umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor) writes:
>
>>(As usual :-)) I was thinking and noted a phenomenon which I find very
>>interesting (now).
>
>>Why do we so strongly propagate our religion?
>>It seems to be the man's nature to propagate his religion. There are other
>>beliefs that one has regarding different aspects of life and society and
>>culture and most often no body messes with you and you dont mess with
>>somebody, but as for as religious beliefs are concerned, most people are
>>ready to "go to the war" at any time. Don't know WHY?
>
>>just a thought!
>
>>--nasir
>>umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca
>
>
>Sorry 
>
>You are in the wrong news group.
>
>This country was created on the base of religion. 
>
>It is not worth descussing here.
>
>I support you on your new stand, a wise stand.
>
>bye
>adil

My stongest possible aproval to your attitude!!!! I firmly BELIEVE that as a
process of evolution, religion as we know it, will either become extinct
or be replaced by a deeply personalized, non-propagating, non-virulent,
kind of faith. Its a loooooong way to go, in human terms. But some day
we will be there!!


THE UNIVERSE HAS LOTS OF PATIENCE!!

>> Sankar

k
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik)
Subject: Re: Muhajirs/CSS/Urban/Rural Sind.
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:12:42 GMT

sl57h@cc.usu.edu writes:
: I am an avid reader of soc.culture.pakistan news group. I read it because it
: reminds me of my beloved country, the country which I miss very much. But
: sometimes or rather more frequently I get to read postings, the context of
: which is not very friendly towards one language group or another (within
: confines of Pakistan). I just want to impress upon the persons who post such
: articles that, whether we like it or not, we i.e., Sindhis, Muhajirs, Punjabis,
: Pathans and Baluchis have to live together. So let's make it a happy living.
: By scrathing a wound no matter how deep or shallow it is, one can not hope to
: heal it.
: 
: Hassan

Thank goodness there are real Pakistanis like Hassan. I fully agree with
Mr Hassan above, and I think that we should concentrate on questions of 
how we can progress together for the future of pakistan, rather than on
ethnic diferences .. which as Muslims should be of superficial consequence.

Nadeem Malik
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.iranian