From: eg1n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Eli Brian Goldberg)
Newsgroups: alt.music.filk
Subject: Re: Myth Debunking 201, part 1 of 2
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:52:01 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, H&SS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

> U>Talent is NOT a mythical musical gift that separates the Julia 
> U>Ecklars 
> U>from the stereotypical green neo. Talent is effectively "BORN 
> U>EXPERIENCE" ---
> U>some people don't have to go through the process of learning to 
> U>sing on
> U>key, or to sing through their diaphragm, or to develop basic 
> U>timing skills,
> U>etc --- these abilities "magically" developed on their own.  If 
> 
>Eli; judging at least by personal experience this is not exactly the case.
>What talent DOES appear to consist of is not experience at all; it's the
>ability to learn the skill in question relatively easily, and to enjoy the
>process.  I think I can claim to have a talent for singing.  But my
>SKILL at singing is due primarily to practice; I've been singing with
>choirs since I was 7 or so, and have had some formal musical training
>as well.  The choir experience is why, for example, I can usually sing 
>harmony to any tune I encounter after I've heard it once through.  But
>the fact is I can sing well largely because I practice.  And I practice
>largely because it's FUN to practice.  And what makes it fun is that I
>seem to be able to learn singing skills fairly easily so practice does not
>get frustrating.

Interestingly, Kay, I've had the exact opposite experience as a guitarist.  
To be blunt, my first year or so was complete _hell_; I recall spending a
fair percentage of my summer of 1990 just trying to get all the chord
changes in _Threes_ and _Horse-Tamer's Daughter_ to speed, which are fairly
trivial songs in my opinion.  The only reason I kept it up was because I
kept listening to filk, and well...I loved the way the guitar players I
heard sounded (Fish in particular) even though it didn't resemble me very
much....So I kept struggling.

After this period, particularly after OVFF, Robin Bailey's style taught
itself to me after watching him play for 15 minutes, and likewise, in
about 4-5 months more, a fair percentage of Leslie Fish's style taught itself
to me.  A year ago at this point, I was able to do simple chords with
absolutely no ornamentation.  (Not to be arrogant, but...) I can now play
most Fish stuff at the level where the average non-guitarist normally can't
tell the difference between me & Fish, or so I've been told by a few of them.
(Although *I* obviously notice a big difference, of course...)
And, since around Octoberish last year, I have enjoyed playing the guitar
considerably more and seem to have things continue to "teach themselves"
to me, if that makes any sense.

I've _been_ accused of having guitar talent by a few filkers recently,
including Fish, and while I don't have any other option other than smiling
and say thanks (or buying my face in my jacket and running away ;-), I
am quite convinced that --- at least in terms of the guitar (I'll preach
about voice after I do 3-4 years of voice lessons ;-) --- it was _purely_ a
matter of effort.  By your definition, I don't have talent on the guitar.  [And
I don't purport to, either.]  But I'm being accused of having it because
I play the guitar fairly competently, which I think drives back the previous
point that people consistently confuse this mythical talent for hundreds of
hours of hard work!  

I'm willing to believe that talent is born experience PLUS a multiplication
factor of the benefit derived from practicing, AND that this factor is
not constant, in that when people practice enough, it may or may not reach
the same level of so-called "talented" people.  

I am also particularly biased because I have met a number of "talent bigots"
who are convinced that they're God's Gift to Music and that anyone who wasn't
born into their pre-chosen caste is musically hopeless.  [I will note that I
can't think of more than 1-2 people of this nature I've met in _filk_, and
they're _not_ well-known filkers...]  The best way to get me to accomplish
something is to directly tell me that I am incapable of doing it; my
roommate, my sister, and my father have all made this statement to me about
my singing (although I admit that my sister and my roommate in high school
laughed at my guitar playing 2 years ago, and well...funny...they've shut up
about it now...wonder why :-), for which I do need to thank them sometime, 
since it has strengthened my motivation immeasurably... ;-)  

>To contrast with this, I do not appear to have a talent for drawing
>so that even when I practice, it takes a LONG time for me to notice
>any improvement.  Accordingly, since it's not something I enjoy anyway
>I don't practice nearly enough to improve at it.  I know some other
>folks who do have a talent for drawing; and they've been scribbling since
>they were kids same as I've been singing, and the results are the same;
>they can do it very well.  But, again, it's practice; the talent is just
>what makes it easy.  (And yes, this does make a difference - I occasionally
>wish I could draw as well as my friends, but I do not feel driven enough
>to do the kind of practice that would be required.)

[Please note that I only included playing and singing as examples.  I don't
claim art [or anything else] to fit into my opinions since I have seen
no evidence to believe it might.]





  "Carnegie Mellon: Where the fun never stops --- because it never starts!" 
 Internet: eg1n@andrew.cmu.edu Filknet: "Hey, you with the 12-string guitar!"
 SnailMail: Eli Goldberg, Box 4352, 5115 Margaret Morrison Rd, Pitt, PA 15213
Newsgroups: alt.music.filk