HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Simulation Games
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 23:02:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.194516.10444@bnr.ca> heilig@crchh120.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Timothy Heilig) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.231327.24337@leland.Stanford.EDU>, claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>|> In article <QePOu0i00Uh7M1JNxs@andrew.cmu.edu> Todd Harris Fletcher <tf0y+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>|> >What is the best board simulation game?  APBA? Strat-o-Matic? Persue the
>|> >Pennant? Why do you think that?
>|> 
>|> IMO, Pursue the Pennant.  I have never played APBA, but I have played Strat.
>|> PTP is vastly superior.
>|> 
>
>I tend to agree though not on all points.

>|> 2.	A better system of relief pitching.
>|> 
>
>Please elaborate, I don't see much of a difference.

Strat, by giving only a numeric rating for relief fatigue, allows somewhat
absurd usages like pitching 5 innings in relief the game after you pitch 4
innings.  Also, there is *no* way to pitch three consecutive games in Strat,
but it happens all the time.  PTP is not perfect here either (the "Closer"
fatigue rating they came out with this year is absurd) but is better.
>
>|> 3.	Cards that are easy to read.

>Here I completely disagree, SOM cards are MUCH easier to read as far as evaluating
>quickly.  Some SOM players have played years without counting "chances" on the
>cards, I couldn't go a month without counting the chances on PTP cards, because
>it's the only way to evaluate the card (95% of the cards look essentially the same 
>at a glance.

That's because, IMO, it is possible to count chances off PTP cards.  Strat
cards are difficult to evaluate, and it would take a calculator to do some
real evaluation.  "Quick" evaluation of Strat cards can create a lot of
unplesant surprises.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: prism.gatech.EDU!ccastmm@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: How about 'em Braves
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:11:00 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

In <1992Jul20.221657.23014@news.nd.edu> jortiz@bach.helios.nd.edu (The 
Candyman) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.182822.22215@rigel.econ.uga.edu>, molly@uga.edu 
writes:
 [she wants an idea for a banner to take ot a Braves game]
 [The Candyman writes]
> Deion:
> Bo KNEW baseball
> Bo KNEW football
> Ask Bo, he knows:
> STICK TO BASEBALL.


And Deion said that his favorite last year was the one he saw last fall.

 Deion this is your brain on drugs (picture of a football)
 Deion this is your brain not on drugs (picture of a baseball)

I kinda liked it also :-).  But this is your last week Deion - those
shoulder pads and helment are waiting after next Friday!  Plus a cool $1 mil.

-- 

Mike Marler                        | "Saving every nickel to spend on my
Internet: ccastmm@prism.gatech.edu |  my next set of thrills..." -somebody
Disclaimer: These views are not and should not be viewed as those of OIT.
From: jjd@TEAK.CRAY.COM (Jeff Drummond)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RC/27 for CFs
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:46:35 GMT



In article <1992Jul21.223405.29801@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>Here are their numbers since '86, year by year.  ('86 was Bonilla's rookie
>season).
>		Bonilla			Puckett			Advantage
>'86		.256/.352/.333		.288/.330/.385		Puckett
>'87		.300/.351/.481		.328/.366/.537		Puckett
>'88		.277/.366/.476		.356/.375/.545		Puckett
>'89		.281/.358/.490		.339/.379/.465		Even?
>'90		.280/.322/.518		.298/.365/.446		Bonilla (small)
>'91		.301/.391/.492		.319/.352/.460		Bonilla (big)
>
>On a career basis entering this season (which Puckett is dominating), however,
>Puckett and Bonilla are on about the same level (equal OBP, Bonilla with 6
>points higher SLG), so your point is taken.  However, Puckett, as you can see,
>has really been in slight declines since his excellent '88 season, but was
>still considered a top offensive player even last year, when, by RC/27, he
>was inferior to at least these players in the AL:  (Also, Puckett is 2 years
>older)

The 'Advantage' column didn't seem right to me, so I computed OBA*SLG and
compared Puckett and Bonilla on that basis.  I also included this years
numbers to date.

		Bonilla			Puckett		OBA*SLG Advantage

'86	.256/.352/.333/.117	.288/.330/.385/.127	Puckett (small)
'87	.300/.351/.481/.169	.328/.366/.537/.197	Puckett (big)
'88	.277/.366/.476/.174	.356/.375/.545/.204	Puckett (big)
'89	.281/.358/.490/.175	.339/.379/.465/.176	Even
'90	.280/.322/.518/.167	.298/.365/.446/.163	Even
'91	.301/.391/.492/.192	.319/.352/.460/.162	Bonilla (big)
'92	.264/.371/.434/.161	.318/.333/.530/.176	Puckett (small)

Nelson's picture seemed to indicate Puckett in a steady decline and
Bonilla steadily improving.  The inclusion of this years data seems
to indicate not only a temporary stabilization for Puckett, but that
Bonilla's 1992 numbers (to date) are more in line with his '87-'90
numbers, and that his excellent 1991 season may have been a career year
for him.

-Jeff    jjd@cray.com
--
"A ball player is like a plough horse.  By the time you _know_ he's
good, he's too old."  -Benjamin Franklin in "Poor Richard's Baseball
Almanac"

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wolverton)
Subject: Re: Rocket Roger, Enfant Terrible
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:27:57 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.143502.20443@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bk713@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Kimon Zachary) writes:
>
>In a previous article, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) says:
>>
>>Only Guzman of Toronto (2.03 ERA, 137.1 IP, 92 H, 50 W, 133 Ks, 6 2/3
>>IP/start) and Appier of KC (2.12 ERA, 152.2 IP, 117 H, 43 W, 104 Ks, just
>>under 7 1/3 IP/start) are comparable this year in the AL [to Clemens], 
>>and given the DH effect, no one is comparable in the NL. 
>
>How about Greg Maddux?  I don't have the stats right here, but I think
>he has a 2.21 ERA in about 140 IP with very impressive H/IP and W/IP.
>In *Wrigley Field* !

Absolutely right.  As of today, Maddux has definitely had a better
season than Clemens, even considering that the AL has more scoring.
Maddux is about 3 1/2 games better than NL league average, while
Clemens is about 3 games better than AL league average.  You could
also argue that Tewksbury has had a comparable season to Clemens,
although he hasn't been quite as good and he seems to be fading.

>
>> Given that Rocket Roger has been
>>performing at this level for quite a few years now, and Appier and Guzman
>>haven't, I have no problem with the claim that Clemens is still the best
>>pitcher in baseball.
>
>Me neither.  Could make an argument for GMaddux as #2 if he keeps this up
>for the rest of the season.

No question that Clemens still deserves the "best in baseball" label.  As
for who's #2 for the past few years, Doug Drabek probably stacks up
favorably compared to Maddux.

-Michael
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wolverton                       "Is that clear?"
mjw@cs.stanford.edu                     "No, but it's consistent!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu (Dave Nobody Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: Dominican Deities - Juan Guzman levitation branch
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:49:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul17.231259.19602@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (roger "The RINGS! It's gotta be the RINGS!" maynard) writes:
>
>This generalization of media types as idiots is just as narrow-minded and 
>simplistic as the view that "statheads" are missing the essence of the
>baseball. 

  Why? I'm really curious .. as much as you probably think I'm patronizing
you, I'd really like to know. 

  Very few mediots have ever impressed me with their logic or analytical
skills. Some have with their material/writing ability (Dan Barreiro of the
Mpls. Star/Trib is sometimes one), but for the most part I find media types 
long on style and short on substance. I've got a couple friends that work in
the business, and the bottom line (of TV journalism, anyways) is that the
people who get the work are the most photogenic, have the bese elocution/ 
delivery and can work comfortably in front of a camera. You'd *like* people 
who are also good journalists, but you don't see Joe 'Crater Face' Schmoe
doing the local sports too often. 

  Most newspaper mediots I've dealt with are IMHO failed ex-athletes that
build up a schmooze network and spend time trying to romanticize lyrically 
about a certain person/team's success or failure. (See Reusse, Pat or
Hartman, Sid. Hartman's so bad about calling everyone a 'close personal
friend' that the players consistently have running jokes going about him.) 
I've chronicled many times in this forum my problems with the media, citing 
specific examples. Sure, there are 'good guys' out there, but they're few and
far between and generally get drowned out in the noise. Since the media has 
an obvious and powerful influence wrt the general public, I don't think it's 
unfair to criticize their shortcomings (which are many). 
 
-- 
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch       "Blue Jays all the way in '92"
kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu                                      Jeff Kent for ROY
"Try new Fortenberry wine coolers, with a biting, bitter taste" - Noel Steere
Slanguage dictionary: maynard - "to insult with disdain and contempt" 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Mon, Jul 27th, 1992
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 23:23:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.215400.4939@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:

>Maybe he is just lucky, but the bottom line is that he wins a lot of
>games. Without him, the Twinkies wouldn't have won it all last year 
>and the Jays probably wouldn't be doing as well as they are this year.
>Regardless of how "lucky" he is, I'm sure any team in the pennant race
>would be happier than hell to have him.
>
>And, no I don't want to start a big diccussion about it, but stats are
>overrated! 
>

I agree with your last statement 100%!  The most overrated one of them all
is the W-L stat...

Oh, you mean W-L aren't stats?  Sorry about that.  (But what are they if they
are not stats?)

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: AMATEUR: Miskatonic falls, 1-0, in FANTASTIC 11 inning game.
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 06:07:45 GMT

In article <10010657@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella) writes:
>In rec.sport.baseball, zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Lost In Austria Huckabay) writes:
>
>> 		IP     H     R     ER     BB     K      NP
>> Owchinko, W     11     4     0     0       5     17     ??
>> Huckabay, L     10.2   2     1     0       1     18     156
>
>Can we get Game Scores on this?  Looks like you got a "Tough Loss" for sure;
>that game score must have approached 3 digits, though.  Congratulations!

The winner Bob Owchinko had a 101.  The tough luck Gary, who did get a *very*
tough loss, had a 107!  Great pitching performances on both sides.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Herzog Seen Shopping In Syracuse
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 21:46:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.173939.15380@parc.xerox.com> zappala@Xerox.com (Daniel Zappala) writes:
>> Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu) says:
>
>> If the Angels can manage to pull this deal off, they are in good (but not
>> all that good) shape for next year:
>> 
>> C:	Sprague
>> 1B:	Barbara
>> 2B:	Flora
>> SS:	Sojo or Gonzales
>> 3B:	Kent
>> LF:	Bell
>> CF:	Curtis
>> RF:	Felix
>> DH:	Polonia/Salmon
>> 
>
>Barbara?  Who is he?  I take it the "Lee Stevens will replace Joyner" experiment
>is over now that he has hit below .200 for the first half of the season?
>I liked this guy when he first came up.  What happened?
>
>Has Flora done that well in the minors?  I've lost track of him lately.
>
>Why Sojo or Gonzales at SS?  Hasn't DiSarcina played well enough to hold
>that down?  I like Gonzales in the lineup, btw.  An improvement over
>Gaetti at third, but then, that's not a surprise.
>
>Info on Derek Bell?  Don't know much about him either.

Don Barbara is a prospect in Edmonton right now.  I don't have current stats,
but last year he batted .327 with 15? homers and a good number of walks at
AA Midland.  Stevens is the current 1B, but I'd like to give Barbara a try.

I really don't know why Stevens fell apart.  Hopefully this is temporary.

Flora hasn't really been that much of an offensive weapon, but he is just 23,
and stole 40 bases last year.  Has very good doubles power, (.450 SLG last
year at Midland) but does not yet know to walk.

DiSarcina's "high" BA has been deceptive; he does not walk, and has no power.
He does play great defense, but I think Sojo and Gonzales can handle that
position, and both of them have better offense.

Bell (if the Angels get him) figures to be a very good player.  He batted
.346 with a .424(!) OBP and .532 SLG at AAA Syracuse in the Toronto
organization last year.  Has moderately good speed (27 steals last season).

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for RFs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 00:34:08 GMT

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Tony Gwynn, San Diego		7.05
Bobby Bonilla, New York		6.45
Larry Walker, Montreal		6.19
Paul O'Neill, Cincinnati	6.13
Felix Jose, St. Louis		6.06
David Justice, Atlanta		5.67
Willie McGee, San Francisco	5.31
Pete Incaviglia, Houston	5.24
Andre Dawson, Chicago		5.07
Darryl Strawberry, Los Angeles	4.83
Eric Anthony, Houston		4.35
Todd Benzinger, Los Angeles	3.44
Ruben Amaro, Philadelphia	3.30

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Danny Tartabull, New York	7.69
Tom Brunansky, Boston		6.50
Ruben Sierra, Texas		6.47
Rob Deer, Detroit		6.13
Joe Carter, Toronto		6.09
Daryl Hamilton, Milwaukee	6.00
Mark Whiten, Cleveland		5.73
Dante Bichette, Milwaukee	5.64
Jose Canseco, Oakland		5.55
Joe Orsulak, Baltimore		5.05	(but Chito Martinez has a 5.16)
Jay Buhner, Seattle		4.47
Jim Eisenreich, Kansas City	4.47
Von Hayes, California		4.47
Phil Plantier, Boston		4.43
Dan Pasqua, Chicago		3.84

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: john@dekalb.dc.peachnet.edu (John Cothran)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Braves won't win it
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:13:36 GMT
Organization: DeKalb College


  As a Braves fan I hate to say this but unless Cincinnati folds, I don't
think the Braves can win the division.

The Reason:  the Braves refuse to draw a walk.  I haven't checked but I
would guess the Braves must be right at the bottom in OBA.  That's the
main difference between last years team and this years.  Last year
it seemed like everyone up and down the order was drawing lots of walks,
this year other than Justice and Olson - NOBODY is drawing a walk.
Somehow this years team isn't getting shutout but they are struggling
mightily to score any runs.  So if the pitching tapers off they will
start losing lots of 1 run games like they were at the beginning of the
year.  Too bad - seems like such an easy thing to fix.

John.
-- 
 John Cothran    |  gatech!dekalb!john
 Dekalb College  |  john@dekalb.dc.peachnet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Braves lose - finally!
From: chandoni@husc8.UUCP (John-Marc Chandonia, , , )
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:41:09 EDT
Originator: chandoni@husc8.harvard.edu

<64397@hydra.gatech.EDU>, by tmiller@prism.gatech.EDU (Thomas Miller):
>   13 wins in a row, though...Well, now we'll see if they can keep the
> momentum up...

But look what happens to teams with 14-game winning streaks:
both Texas last year and the '65 Giants finished 2nd or 3rd.
13 games is the right #; last time the Braves did that, they
won the division.

Ron Gant wisely thought of this, and laid off a grand slam 
and a 9th-inning game tying HR.  Lonnie, as usual, was trying
to jeapordize the Braves chances by tying the game up in
the 7th.

:-) for TK and other humor-impaired.

JMC
-- 
chandoni@husc9.harvard.edu    | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom
John-Marc Chandonia           | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom
Graduate Biophysics Program   | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom 
Harvard University            | I will not yell fire ...
From: epp@mala.bc.ca (Lorne Epp)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Taking Third
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:51:56 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

In article <1992Jul30.194551.20446@auto-trol.com>, mattel@auto-trol.com (Matt Telles) writes:
> In article <1992Jul29.172601.13911@u.washington.edu> hiegel@redx.washington.edu (Brian Hiegel) writes:
>>What is the value of third base when there are two outs?  Is it ever worth the risk 
>>to steal third with two outs?  I know the old saying "never make the first or third 
>>out of an inning at third," but is that always the case.  Can someone tell me a 
>>situaltion when you go against this rule?
> 
> Or how about when the batter is your
> pitcher?  Might as well steal third and hope for a wild pitch, wild pickoff
> throw, balk, error, etc.
> 

But if you're caught stealing you have your pitcher leading off the
next inning.  Also, I think in most cases the chance of your pitcher
hitting a single is greater than the chance of a wild pitch, balk,
error, etc.

You shouldn't steal third base with two out unless the improvement in 
your probability of scoring is greater than the probability of your 
being caught stealing.  In any situation I can think of right now,
this means that you shouldn't go unless you're just about certain
you'll make it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lorne Epp                                               epp@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Wed, Jul 29th, 1992
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 23:30:07 GMT

In article <Bs68uK.DH5@news.cso.uiuc.edu> yl44729@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Rick Lin ) writes:

>For your information, the Cubs are only 3 1/2 (pending the outcome of the
>Expos-Cardinals, possibly 4 games out) games out of first place.  Bring out
>them brooms!!!  SWEEP!!!   I'd say the Cubs chances are very good now.  Best
>staff ERA in baseball and if their hitting start to come around (20 runs in
>3 games against the Pirates), they'll be tough to beat.  GO CUBBIES!!

Dream on.  A team with Andre Dawson as one of its better offensive players
is doomed to be low-scoring.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu (Dave Nobody Kirsch)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Where have all the flakes gone?
Date: 25 Jul 92 15:48:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.1992Jul25.154849.12736
Organization: Dominican Deities - Juan Guzman levitation branch

In article <2178457@overmind.citadel> ocf.berkeley.edu!hankwong@overmind.mind.org writes:
>In article <54753@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
> writes:
>>
>>My mind can't think of the name right now but I recall a very loud NL
>>umpire who uses an exxagerated motion when calling balls and strikes
>>(pardon the euphemisms).  What is his name?
>
>Wouldn't that be Dutch Rennert(sp?)??

  Actually, I think he's talking about Enrico Palazzo. 

-- 
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch       "Blue Jays all the way in '92"
kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu                                      Jeff Kent for ROY
"Try new Fortenberry wine coolers, with a biting, bitter taste" - Noel Steere
Slanguage dictionary: maynard - "to insult with disdain and contempt" 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Dawson, was: Re: GMaddux to Test Free Agency Waters
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:16:29 GMT

In article <Bs6w3r.JyJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu> yl44729@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Rick Lin ) writes:
>dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:

>>It's bad if it's all the offense you produce.  Dave Kingman was mediocre
>>while hitting 35 HR per year.  Frank Thomas is a batting monster while hitting
>>25 HR because of all the other things he does.  (And, of course, RBI's don't
>>tell you much more than that Dawson bats cleanup, but that's a different
>>thread.)

>So that's how Kirk Gibson won the MVP in '88!  With about 25 HR and 75 RBIs
>Not to mention his knee (much worse than Dawsons). 

How many bases did each one steal that year?  

Actually, Gibson was the third-best offensive player in the league that
year, behind Clark and Strawberry (if memory serves).  Did a lot of
things with weak hitters ahead of him and a lousy park to hit in.

Roger