HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 17:42:59 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep7.225826.16044@xyzoom.info.com> rob@xyzoom.info.com
(Rob Lingelbach) writes:
>smoke, and had to shut my doors and windows against the stench and fumes.  
>
>You are absolutely correct.  I have looked at the pollution page in
>the Times regularly for a few years, and can't correlate the view from
>my home with the figures.

Nor should you expect to correlate.

Two reasons exist for this: 1) smog isn't a single element, the composition
and political concerns have changed thru the years, and 2) a significant
portion of the chemical constitution is clear, colorless, odorless, but
toxic gas (CO, O3, etc.).  Concerns in the past for 1) have included
heavy metals like Pb and Cd, unburned hydro-carbons, SO2, but as these
improved and other gases like NOx, CO and O3 came into concern.

If we are going to have to rely on our senses: sight, taste, etc. and not
things like canaries (animals), scientific instrumentation, and reasoning, then
the human race is in trouble.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya

Welcome, sulfur dioxide.
Hello, carbon monoxide.
The air, the air is everywhere.

Breath deep, while you sleep,
Breath deep.

Bless you, alcohol blood stream.
Save me, nicotine lung steam.
Incense, incense is in the air.

Breath deep, while you sleep
Breath deep.

Cat-a-clysmic, ecto-plasm,
Fall out, atomic orgasm,
Vapor and fume at the stone of my tomb
Breathing like a sullen perfume,
Eating at the stone of my tomb.

Welcome, sulfur dioxide
Hello, carbon monoxide
The air, the air is everywhere.

Breath deep, while you sleep
Breath deep
deep
deep de deep.
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: Long Commutes (was Jumping the Good Ship California)
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Distribution: ca
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:34:01 GMT


   I've depended solely on alternative (non-personal-auto) transit in
the Bay Area for twenty years, and I have to agree with everything
Russell Carter says about it.  Public transit in the Bay Area is a joke,
and the patchwork of poorly connected agencies is one of the main
reasons why.

   I really think that most of the discussion about whether current
public transit in the Bay Area is a viable alternative to the personal
automobile is pointless, since it is comparing a good personal auto
transit system with an abysmally bad public transit system.  And yes,
public transit here is abysmally bad, a fact not contradicted by the
fact that there are other areas of the country where it's even worse.

   Spend some time in cities overseas where there is an integrated,
comprehensive public transit system.  You'll find there are many cases
when it is actually faster and more convenient to use it rather than a
car.  It's a revelation.  
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Subject: Re: L.A.'s Metro system (was Re: Which is the City ...)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:45:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep10.023451.28270@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:
>foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye) writes:
>Which brings up a question I've been wondering about for
>a long time.  Now and then I see stories in the Times about
>the Red Line or another component of the Metro system,
>sometimes with a map of a fairly small part of the route.
>What I'd be really curious to see, though, is something like
>a projected system map of 20-30 years hence (i.e. the whole
>kit and kaboodle).  Has anyone ever seen anything like this?
>
>Frank
>frank@jplpost.jpl.nasa.gov

Lazy fool that I am, I never saved the supplement to the LA Times
put out by the LACTC. It has a multi-colored map of the system
in the early 21st century including Metrolink and the color-coded
Metro subway system. Some of it had to be speculative; there
is a war going on between advocates of a Ventura Fwy monorail
and those who prefer using the SP right of way along Chandler
and Victory.


-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543
                         Fax: 805.944.5958


Newsgroups: ca.general,ba.general
From: lauren@vortex.COM (Lauren Weinstein)
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,ba.general
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Date: 7 Sep 92 17:44:25 GMT
Organization: Vortex Technology

Greetings.  It is certainly true that the smog in L.A. has been
significantly reduced over the last decade--the last numbers I saw
said about 50%.  There are a few important things to note about this:

1) L.A. is a BIG place.  The figures are taken from the entire
   region, and don't differentiate, for example, the relatively 
   good air usually toward the ocean and the rather worse air out toward
   Pasadena and the East.

2) The definition of smog is rather arbitrary and doesn't take into 
   account health aspects directly.  For example, most of L.A.'s smog
   is photochemical.  This isn't great stuff, but there are many, many
   cities (particularly in the industrialized Northeast) where the air
   is far more hazardous to breath due to the concentration of coal
   burning for fuel, use of high sulphur fuel oil, and heavy industry.
   But those toxicity levels aren't really counted in the definition
   of smog that is popularly used.  If you include the rest of the world,
   L.A. isn't even *near* the top of the list.  Take a look at Eastern
   Europe, Mexico, and Tokyo for example.  Pollution controls are
   virtually non-existent in most places.

3) When you see the famous pictures of L.A. "smog," keep in mind that the
   basin looked very similar 200 years ago!  The Native American name
   for the area was something like "land of mists," noting the moisture
   from the ocean that frequently caused visibility to be heavily obscured
   in gray mistiness.  Add even a little bit of genuine smog to that
   and you have some impressive pictures, but not much in the way of
   information.  In fact, I've often heard news reports pointing out
   that even though most people thought a particular day had terrible
   smog due to low visibility, the actual pollution levels those days
   were very low.  You just can't always tell by looking.  And yes,
   it's certainly true, the amount of "eye irritation" (they used
   to predict smog as "light to moderate eye irritation, etc." years
   ago) is way, way down.  Most of the time at zero, at least in my
   area.  

On the other hand, every time I visit the Bay Area, it seems the pollution
and traffic problems there are getting worse and worse.  I've certainly
been in routine traffic tieups there that are at *least* as bad as
ones down here.

--Lauren--
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: zhu_z@romeo.caltech.edu (Zhu, Zehua)
Subject: Tai Chi Chuan
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Tai Chi Chuan  
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 05:42:00 GMT
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: driving from SF to LA
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 92 03:08:02 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: ca

> I am soon going to drive from SF to LA for the first time.
> What is the best book to get about stuff to see and do along the way?
> I'm going to stop several times and take my time. I have seen at least
> five general travel guides about Calif.

(1) Don't take I-5.  There is nothing to see on I-5.

(1a) If, for some reason, you DO take I-5, at the first whiff of cows,
close all windows and vents.  There's a place where a bunch of cows
spend all day standing next to I-5 radiating their presence.  If you
don't close everything, you will be stuck with the smell of cows until
at least Bakersfield.

(2) There is some book about roadside geology.  I don't recall the title.
It describes interesting geological features along various major freeways
and roads.  I've only looked at it in bookstores, so can't tell you
more.

--Tim Smith
From: mludwig@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Michael Scott Ludwig)
Subject: Re: Long Commutes (was Jumping the Good Ship California)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Reply-To: mludwig@ics.uci.edu (Michael Scott Ludwig)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Date: 11 Sep 92 08:40:23 GMT

markp@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Mark Panitz) writes:
=I thought traveler's transit (the bus service that use to operate from
=Richmond to San Rafael went out of business. what company is doing the San
=Rafel- Richmond trip now?  Is it Golden Gate transit?

I haven't heard anything recently (i.e. over the summer), but early this
year I heard that Golden Gate Transit was going to start a bus line across
the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge, similar to Traveler's Transit's route,
sometime in the near future (relative to back then).  So it looks like GGT
started this bus line over the summer, and this caused Traveler's Transit to
go under.

Does anyone know for sure about this?


"Planet Bog - pools of toxic chemicals | Michael Ludwig
bubble under a choking atmosphere      |
of poisonous gases.  But aside from    | mludwig@bonnie.ics.uci.edu
that, it's not much like Earth."       |
        - Calvin (of Calvin & Hobbes)  | UCI and I don't agree on anything.
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: GC.AVW@forsythe.stanford.edu (RAGIN CAJUN)
Subject: Re: Bicycle stolen: Santa Cruz County, CA
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 10:18:54 GMT

In article <BELDAR.92Sep5024536@rimulac.MicroUnity.Com>,
beldar@MicroUnity.Com (Gardner Cohen) writes:
>
>[ note ca distribution; it's not my fault if this ends up in Europe ]
>
>I lost a bicycle (among other things) in a car breakin at the Santa
>Cruz County Fairgrounds on Friday, September 5.
>
>I'd appreciate it if anyone who sees the bicycle described below would
>give me a call at 408-257-5867.
>
>54cm 1990 Miyata 1000 XLT touring bicycle, gold colored, serial #RV
>40103, with blue cannondale handlebar bag and seat tool bag.  It has a
>cateye ATC computer, an avocet computer mount (they dropped and left
>my avocet 50 behind), shimano SPD pedals, a black zefal hpx pump, and
>two grey zefal water bottle cages.
>
>Also stolen were a bell quest helmet, shimano pd 50 shoes, a motorola
>handheld cellular phone, a wetsuit, and several pairs of dirty
>underwear.
>--
>Gardner Cohen / beldar@microunity.com / 408-734-8100

Sorry-

I didn't see a bike answering that description, but I may have seen
the dirty underwear.

Alma
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell)
Subject: L.A.'s Metro system (was Re: Which is the City ...)
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:34:51 GMT

foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye) writes:

>Just hang on a bit. I think the completion of the Red Line is
>going to be a wonderful thing; I saw a study in the LA Times
>that said that commuting traffic on the 170/101 will decline
>by 30% within a year of its completion. 

Which brings up a question I've been wondering about for
a long time.  Now and then I see stories in the Times about
the Red Line or another component of the Metro system,
sometimes with a map of a fairly small part of the route.
What I'd be really curious to see, though, is something like
a projected system map of 20-30 years hence (i.e. the whole
kit and kaboodle).  Has anyone ever seen anything like this?

Frank
frank@jplpost.jpl.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:13:28 GMT

The DMZ reported in transfers of licenses between states, 13K more left CA
than entered in 1991.  This does not say anything about the total amount
which probably went up due to internal increases and foreign immigration.

I wonder what the figures are for unlicensed drivers these days.
I suspect as costs and bureacracies increase, fewer people bother to obtain
licenses and just drive.  The LA Times described how this was happening
with high school students recently.  The access to Driver's Ed, huge insurance
charges, and relatively low penalties for minors ($250) encourages some to
drive without an license.  Adult penalties are more serious, so I suspect
more compliance.  However the costs of keeping a liscensed car are increasing
so I suspect growing uncompliance too.
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general.ba.general
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:06:36 GMT
Keywords: city, smog, pollution, living condition, moving out

In article <m1JPqB1w165w@midiline.la.ca.us> nickn@midiline.la.ca.us (nick nelson) writes:
>my@berlioz.nsc.com (Mike Yip) writes:
>> 	I would like to know which is the city in the US has the worst
>> air pollution (LA? NYC?) and which city has the worst overall pollution
>> in general (land/air/water...).  
>> 
>> 	How about in the global scale?  Is Mexico City the worst one 
>> to be in?  Or is it L.A. or NYC?
>
>Los Angeles does have the worst smog in the US, I once read, but
>there are cities in the world taht are worse.  Mexico City as well
>as Tokyo (unless they've cleaned it up recently).  And I can attest
>to the statement that LA's air is cleaner now than a decade ago.
>When I first moved here (San Gabriel Valley, '79), from the Santa
>Barbara area, my eyes would start burning frequently upon leaving
>work in the afternoon.  This hasn't happened for years, but that
>may be the tough layer that's developed over my eyes.

There was a well publicized list some years ago giving, then current,
ranking of major cities in the US for worst pollution in two
categories--particulate and photochemical.  There was only *one*
California city on either list.  Bakersfield was 5th worst in
particulate pollution.  As I recall one of the worst was Steubenville,
OH.  New York was up there (I guess folks don't see the smog because
the buildings are in the way).

Mexico City regularly gets smog so bad that it is a direct and
immediate hazard to your health.  Tokyo used to pull traffic cops out
periodically to give them oxygen.  Cairo, Egypt is probably pretty
bad.  We haven't got data on Russian cities, but there was
(apparently) rampant unconcern about such things in the Soviet Union.
There have been some pretty ghastly reports out of parts of Eastern
Europe (things like significantly reduced life expectancy compared to
the rest of the country--particularly in parts of Czechoslovakia).

LA is *famous* for it's smog--but it's far from the worst.

	--Hal
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: nickn@midiline.la.ca.us (nick nelson)
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general.ba.general
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Keywords: city, smog, pollution, living condition, moving out
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 18:44:21 PDT
Organization: MIDILine BBS - Altadena, CA - (818) 797-3285

my@berlioz.nsc.com (Mike Yip) writes:

> Hello,
> 	I would like to know which is the city in the US has the worst
> air pollution (LA? NYC?) and which city has the worst overall pollution
> in general (land/air/water...).  
> 
> 	How about in the global scale?  Is Mexico City the worst one 
> to be in?  Or is it L.A. or NYC?
> 
> -- Mike

Los Angeles does have the worst smog in the US, I once read, but
there are cities in the world taht are worse.  Mexico City as well
as Tokyo (unless they've cleaned it up recently).  And I can attest
to the statement that LA's air is cleaner now than a decade ago.
When I first moved here (San Gabriel Valley, '79), from the Santa
Barbara area, my eyes would start burning frequently upon leaving
work in the afternoon.  This hasn't happened for years, but that
may be the tough layer that's developed over my eyes.


-----
nickn@midiline.la.ca.us (nick nelson) 
MIDILine BBS (midiline.la.ca.us) - Altadena CA - (818)797-3285
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
Subject: Re: L.A.'s Metro system (was Re: Which is the City ...)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:51:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.175226.25342@equalizer.cray.com> bruceh@cray.com (Bruce T. Hill) writes:
>Just look at how ling it has taken to get the Century Freeway built.

Considering how much the Century Freeway costs, I'm not at all
surprised at how long it has taken.

It sure is impressive if you like concrete!

-- 
My opinions are my own.
Vote for Clinton: protect the right to keep and bear sporting goods.
From: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: [l/m 6/1/92] A short note on posting, cross-posting
Followup-To: poster
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 11:01:08 GMT
Summary: Stop, Think, Observe, Plan
Reply-To: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)

Panel 14

	Table of Contents of this Chain

14	Posting headers and cross-posting			<This panel>
15	Distribution Fields
21	Killfiles (with extreme prejudice)
28	Canceling posted news articles
1	Reminders on use of the *.general news.groups
7	General Help Reading News

This is a quick lesson on posting (to any group).  Unfortunately,
inconsistencies of news and notes systems will limit some of this information.
See news.announce.newusers and consult (by mail) a news/system guru if you
need help, even if that guru is on another system.

This is a news message header and some hints to remember:

Newsgroups: <- if you cross post or use "general" use the Followup-To: line
Subject: <- EDIT this field if you refine your subject
Summary: 
Expires: <- for dated postings
Reply-To: 
Followup-To: <- consider using this field to limit cross posting or "poster"
Distribution: <- consider limiting posting to ba, ca, usa, na, and so forth
Organization: 
Keywords: 

News is potentially a beautiful communication tool.  Unfortunately, it is
too easily abused.  Cross-posting isn't bad, but just like forgetting to
edit a Subject line, you can have unintended effects.  If you are not
absolutely clear on what each field does, ask for help FIRST.  CONSIDER
all newsgroups you are posting and make certain you use a minimum number.
Use the followup line and consider the offer of posting summaries (makes you
the center of attention.  Place the most relevant newsgroup first!
If you want a discussion to appear in multiple groups like:

Newsgroups: ba.xxx,ca.yyy,na.zzz,ba.general
#where xxx, yyy, and zzz are groups, then use a Followup line like:
Followup-To: ba.xxx
#LEAVING general out.  ba.xxx should be the most relevant group.

like:

Newsgroups: comp.graphics,ba.seminars
Followup-To: comp.graphics

Consider that if you have a topic of non-immediate interest that you post
with using a limited domain/distribution like:

Newsgroups: rec.audio,ba.wanted
Distribution: ba
Followup-To: rec.audio
#Keeping out of general, getting the audio philes and those seeking.

Remember: KEEP ADS in the market groups, and save general for important
announcements.

Oh?  You didn't know about rec, misc, talk, alt, news, sci, comp?  Well!

Xref: sparky ca.general:1225 la.general:647 alt.california:1744
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
Subject: Re: L.A.'s Metro system (was Re: Which is the City ...)
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:16:27
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: usa
	<1992Sep10.184509.20346@cco.caltech.edu>
	<1992Sep10.203826.8489@nosc.mil>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: price@nosc.mil's message of Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:38:26 GMT

On Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:38:26 GMT, price@nosc.mil (James N. Price) said:
> Ah, if only the Big Red cars and their rights of way were still
> around.  But we don't want to get into that discussion, do we....

At least some of the cars are still around, as are some of the cars of the Los
Angeles Railway (the yellow cars). Take a trip out to the Orange Empire
Railway Museum in Perris, CA, where they still run and clang merrily. OERM is
open every weekend; the big rail festival is the last full weekend of October.
Email me for more info.

Daniel Faigin
OERM #2966.
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
   "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"
From: mludwig@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Michael Scott Ludwig)
Subject: Re: California (LA is somewhat all the same)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Reply-To: mludwig@ics.uci.edu (Michael Scott Ludwig)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Date: 5 Sep 92 12:56:51 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <1992Sep2.054942.7041@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
=Let's see:
=there is "The City of LA," "the County of LA," the "LA Basin,"
=and clear, and extremely important generalizations of LA.  Suburbs of
=LA ALL count as parts of LA.  I now count Ventura and Oxnard as part of LA.
=San Diego and Orange County, SB and Riveside Counties are part of LA as
=far as I am concern.

Good distinction between the different L.A.s - while places like Orange
County are not part of the city or county, they definitely have been part of
the metro area for at least several years.

San Diego is part of the L.A. Metro area, with the large undeveloped Camp
Pendleton between them????

Oh, you must be thinking about all those crazy people who are growing in
numbers who drive through Camp Pendleton every workday.  I've even heard
that some people are crazy enough to drive from San Diego, the city, to
mid-or-northern Orange County, or some equivalent distance (although not
every workday); this sounds like a trip where flying would be just as
convenient and less costly....

Although I can't think of any way in which the far reaches of San Brdo. and
Riverside Counties can be called part of the L.A. Metro area - these
counties go all the way to the Colorado River.


"Planet Bog - pools of toxic chemicals | Michael Ludwig
bubble under a choking atmosphere      |
of poisonous gases.  But aside from    | mludwig@bonnie.ics.uci.edu
that, it's not much like Earth."       |
        - Calvin (of Calvin & Hobbes)  | UCI and I don't agree on anything.
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Subject: Re: Snow and the San Gabes (was: Which is the City of Worst...)
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 01:01:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.171306.5349@riacs.edu> watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.024004.8066@xyzoom.info.com> rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach) writes:
>> I realize I've changed the subject here, but there is an excellent
>> series in the New Yorker magazine by John Mcphee, started last week,
>> on the geology of California.
>
>He's also written about the Gabes before, one third of the 
>book, "Control of Nature".
>

Which also first appeared in the New Yorker.  One of my favorite
essayists (Coming Into the Country, Levels of the Game, etc.)



-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln