HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Dog meets bike (Was: Whatcha get...)
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 22:35:24 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:46:14 GMT
>FROM:   Joshua_Putnam <josh@Happy-Man.com>
[....]
>The basics of the accident: coming around a corner at ~28mph, I
>saw a woman jogging towards me in the traffic lane (there is no
>shoulder on that side of the road, just a jogging path on the
>other side).  She was leading two terriers on leashes, and moved them
>off to the edge of the road as I passed at the center line.  Just
>before I reached her, one of the dogs was startled by a car
>engine starting.  The woman lost her grip on the middle of the
>leash, letting the dog yank it to its full length of over 10
>feet.  The dog ended up less than a foot in front of my wheel,
>and followed me left as I tried to dodge it.  I ended up hitting
>it amidships, about the bottom of the ribcage.
[....]

My condolences on the accident. Hope everything mends quickly.

Your description of what happened is uncannily like an accident 
(fortunately for me, less serious in its consequences) that I once had. 

Also coming down a hill (this was in Riverside Park in New York City, of 
all places) on a multi-use path. Nasty pools of mud and glop on each 
side. Coming toward me on the path, a woman *on a bicycle* with a 
scrofulous-looking terrier-oid doglet running beside her on a leash -- 
on her left side, I should add. She (the cyclist, that is)
and I were each keeping to the right, but poochie decided to go wide 
(i.e. to my right). Understandable, I guess, since it wasn't a very broad 
path, and his alternative was to go between us. I was just trying to 
figure out what I was going to do about the leash stretched across my 
path when canis domesticus invalidated any plans I might have formed by 
reconsidering his strategy and darting back toward his mistress -- 
right in front of my wheel. As with you, a catapult ensued. 

I still can't figure out why my middle-aged skeleton didn't take a few 
fractures. I *think* that I must have flipped enough to land on the back 
of my head and the area between my shoulders; I seem to recall actually 
coming through the flip and getting back onto my feet in the same 
motion. Must have been something to see; I probably couldn't reproduce 
it in a million years. 

Of course, the New York punchline to the whole thing is that the dog's 
mistress was quite annoyed at *me*. The wretched creature was completely 
unhurt, naturally -- again, I was thinking of the quadruped, not the 
biped, although the latter, too, suffered nothing worse than emotional 
distress. 

In retrospect, I have to admit that I probably was going too fast for a 
multi-use path in a crowded park. But I still think that taking a dog 
out cycling -- on a leash! -- is a spectacularly silly thing to do. So 
my accident was partly my fault, partly hers. Yours, by contrast, sounds 
like nobody's fault -- just one of those things. 

Again, best wishes for a speedy recovery.

--Michael Smith

Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:1363 rec.bicycles.misc:1820
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Need to read : Are you an idiot?
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 09:17:43 EST(-0500)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
> I'm pleased to see that there are plenty of people who are prepared to
> denounce the idiot who thinks that no one should ride a bike on a busy
> road, but would like to suggest that this fascinating discussion
> transplant itself to the appropriate forum: rec.bicycles.soc (for
> sociopaths and sock-it-to-ems).

No need to transplant the discussion, Les ... it's already blooming in fine
form over here on rec.bicycles.socitoem.

However, over here we do try to avoid ad hominem attacks such as calling people
idiots.  I hope that those who follow your transplantation suggestion also
follow our practice of addressing the issues rather attacking the individuals.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.resun.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: fwarner@swifty.dap.CSIRO.AU (Frank Warner)
Subject: Re: Bicycle built for 2-Side by Side?
Organization: CSIRO, Division of Applied Physics, Sydney
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:29:13 GMT

There is a 3 wheeler side by side bicycle ( umm 3 wheel bicycle ??
well you get what I mean )i.
Its 2 bicycles coupled together 
with cross bracing at the seats to the other frames rear drop outs.
Both front wheels are removed and a single front wheel is 
installed between the two frames on a coupling so both riders ca stear. 
It looks quite heavy 

 Frank Warner 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: don@island.COM (Don Hermes)
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:33:34 GMT

Yet another pair of cycling gloves. My Mom (and I do it too, it's 
probably genetic) when she finds a gift that "works", she repeats
it. So for the third year in a row she's given me cycling gloves.
Problem is, my sister gave me a pair for my birthday in November.
Oh well, I'll just have to reember that there are poor children
in Apalacia(sp?) that don't have any cycling gloves at all.

Don
don@island.com
From: Erin_Zielinski@mindlink.bc.ca (Erin Zielinski)
Subject: aero bar computer mount (was: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 07:21:10 GMT

Hi,  passing on news from a friend:

Apparently, Profile DOES make an accessory for the aerobars for just this
purpose - but good luck getting your hands on one!

Try calling them: phone # listed in Bicycling Magazine (they have an 800 #)
as soon as I can find it again, will pass it along :)


Erin :)

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Need to read : Are you an idiot?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:43:16 GMT

les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>I'm pleased to see that there are plenty of people who are prepared to
>denounce the idiot who thinks that no one should ride a bike on a busy
>road, but would like to suggest that this fascinating discussion
>transplant itself to the appropriate forum: rec.bicycles.soc (for
>sociopaths and sock-it-to-ems).
>Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
>Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
>UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022

Right Les.  And 100 other people would say it belongs in this newsgroup.
But I guess you're the ultimate authority right?
-Terry
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: ae505@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank Krygowski)
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:25:12 GMT


What I GAVE for Christmas:

Gave my papergirl (paperperson?) and her paperboy brother headlights
for their bikes.  Just Cateye - style ones, but it sure was scary
seeing them bike in the dark to get the papers delivered.

First Christmas in 18 years that nobody in the house got anything
bike - related.  I guess we've got all we need!


... temporarily!

Frank Krygowski  ae505@yfn.ysu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: jsweeney@geppetto.encore.com (Joe Sweeney)
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Organization: Encore Computer Corp.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 14:21:51 GMT

...Oh joy!  I got a Vetta HR1000 and Profile AirStryke (sp?) aerobars...
I'll post a report on both.  I've installed the HR1000 as an addition
to my Cat Eye Micro.  Haven't installed the bars yet since they fit
so close to the stem and leave no computer mounting spot.  


Later, 
Joe

-- 
JOE SWEENEY (jsweeney@encore.com) ENCORE COMPUTER CORP.; MELBOURNE, FLORIDA
My postings/letters are flame proof.  If you've taken offense, you may have
misunderstood me.  If you differ with me, that's just fine and your response
is welcome.  ****Please place :-) at all locations you feel necessary.****
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:00:50 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:12:51 GMT
>FROM:   Zalman Stern <zstern@adobe.com>
[....]
>Ed Ravin and Michael Smith.... just really hate cars. This  
>biases their idea of what is good for bicyclists.

The first point isn't quite right; speaking only for myself, what I hate 
is our *overreliance* on cars. And there seems to be a gaping hole in 
the logic between the first statement and the second. 

Also, now that I think of it, wouldn't a *love* of cars be more likekly 
to bias one's thinking about what's good for cyclists than hatred would 
do?

Awaiting enlightenment, 

Michael Smith
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 23:23:25 GMT

Howard Gerber writes:
   [.  .  .]  For most people in
   the U.S., cycling and walking are not even considered as a possible
   alternative to driving. A simple trip to the store, one block away, must
   be done in a car.

If you think that's bad, my next door neighbor has a steep driveway
about 50 meters long and on days when he stays home he drives down to
the street and back to get the morning newspaper and the afternoon
mail.  Makes me want to blow up his driveway.
--
Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
From: mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: mtn bike club at Univ of Md
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:27:26 GMT
Reply-To: mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh)
Distribution: dc
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.bicycles.soc, gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck) writes:
>College Park has a roadies club, there is little support for mtn.
>bikers.  There are plenty of mtn. bikes around, and I would think some

Proteus Bike and Fitness on Rt. 1 has an off-road racing club, you may want
to call them to find out about their club.

>        Require a safety check by a local bike store

You should be able to get one (College Park bicycles or Proteus) to
do this for free for club members since they're bound to sell some stuff.

>        Trail maintenance

REI does trail maintenance, talk to them.

>        Membership
>Need: a bike, a helmet, an interest!

If the club is to sponsored by the SGA, they may have some restrictions.
You may need to charge dues to at least cover a newsletter or flyers.

>Should a bike club at the Univ of Md include roadies or would each
>type of biking be better served by separate clubs?

If there is no collegiate road team, there should be.

Let me know if you make any progress.  I race on the road with NCVC
which is mostly DC area and by myself off-road.  I'm not a Maryland
student or alumni.

David Mackintosh
From: chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:12:48 GMT
Organization: Novell, Inc. - Walnut Creek

Got:  A nifty clip-on thermometer for the handlbars, Zefal Hp
      floor pump, assorted bike-munchies

Gave: Heart rate monitor (Polar Accurrex), CoolMax sox




--
Mark Chandler               Novell, Inc.          510/975-4522
chandler@wc.novell.com      Walnut Creek, CA
==================================================================
     The opinions expressed above are mine, not my employer's.
From: dkw@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David Wittenberg)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Safety and Bikeways
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:24:51 GMT
Organization: Brandeis University Computer Science

In article <72113@cup.portal.com>, JForester@cup.portal.com (John - Forester) writes:
|> 
|>                     BIKEWAYS AND CYCLIST SAFETY
|> 
|>    This is in response to questions about why bikeways are
|> less safe than roads.
|> 
|> Accident Pattern
|> 
|> Accidents to cyclists occur in the following pattern:
|> Falls                                  44%
|> Collision with moving motor vehicle    18%
|> Collision with moving bicycle          17%
|> Collision with moving dog               8%
|> Collision with parked car               4%
|> Bicycle mechanical failure              3%
|> Collision with pedestrian               1%
|> Other                                   5%

I've seen these  (or similar) statistics quoted frequently.  Does
anyone know where I can find statistics on patterns of accidents
causing injury?
I'm not terribly worried about getting a minor scrape now and then,
but I do try to avoid situations which are likely to kill me.
Ideally, I'd like to see accident frequencies for serious injuries
(say broken bone or hospital stay) and for fatalities.

--David Wittenberg
From: jrdodd@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Date: 30 Dec 92 12:16:33 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Dec29.011248.11338@novell.com>, chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler) writes:
> Got:  A nifty clip-on thermometer for the handlbars, Zefal Hp
>       floor pump, assorted bike-munchies
> 
> Gave: Heart rate monitor (Polar Accurrex), CoolMax sox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Mark Chandler               Novell, Inc.          510/975-4522
> chandler@wc.novell.com      Walnut Creek, CA
> ==================================================================
>      The opinions expressed above are mine, not my employer's.

Good grief,  you mean you actually *gave* something for Christmas?  I thought
Christmas was all about getting! (at least that's the impression one can get).

Anyone else bless fellow cyclists with pressies instead of the other way
around?

Jonathan. (gave: one gel-seat for long suffering girlfriend).
From: jtyl@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BJ)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Date: 28 Dec 92 15:53:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <Bzvv1F.FFC@cs.uiuc.edu>, tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes...
>I'll start...a Pearl Izumi long sleeve Thermasof jersey and a matching
>jacket.

An 8 sp cassette conversion kit for my XC-pro microdrive    8-)
Once installed, I'll have a 11-28 in the back and a 42-32-20 in the 
front.  8-)

+------------------------------------------------------------+
|               O               /^^*  *  O  ^^\              | 
|              /\,            /^    *   <|<   *^\            |
|             -\ -       /^^^^ /^^\    / \\  *   ^^\         |
|              /(*)  /^^^   /^^    ^  * \//    /^^\ ^^^\     |
|  \___Q    (*) /^^^^   /^^^   BJ Lau     \\   *   ^^\  ^\   |
|  /\ /\    ^^^ ^       jtyl@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu     ^   ^^\|
+------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: elr@trintex.uucp (Ed Ravin)
Subject: Re: Cycling and Environmentalism
Organization: Prodigy Services Co.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 16:00:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.225640.8005@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@cs.stanford.edu writes:
>   ... like the executive director of a local development
>   corporation in the Bronx who wants to turn a railroad right-of-way into a
>   parking lot rather than a bikeway.
>
>Why not convert it to something more useful: a road?  If there is some
>reason why that won't work, then a pedestrian path or a parking lot
>sound to me like better uses for that land.

There's already an interstate highway immediately adjacent to it -- and
US Route 9 (called Broadway by us local types) is two blocks away on the
other side.  The bit of land in question is the abandoned Putnam line
railroad, which goes from the Bronx, NY up to Brewster NY.  It will make
a wonderful bike road, because of the scarcity of intersections with the
roadway network, and most important, the level route it provides through
otherwise hilly-as-hell Westchester and Putnam counties.  All of the
non-hilly through roads in Westchester have been turned into highways,
forcing cyclists to climb hills unnecessarily when commuting through
the county.

The person in question wants a parking lot there because she can't
envision a bike path through an industrial area alongside a highway --
"It'll be unsafe" she claims.  I've noticed that some people perceive
an area to be unsafe because it can't be reached by automobile :-(...
The area in question is very small, only twenty feet wide and a half-mile
long -- after that, the railroad line enters a city park, and there's no
argument among anyone (at least here in the Bronx) that that section
should become a bike/ped path...
-- 
Ed Ravin- elr@trintex.uucp| I like to think (and the sooner the better!)
  elr%trintex@uunet.uu.net| Of a cybernetic meadow where mammals and computers
           +1-914-993-4737| Live together in mutually programming harmony
my opinions, nobody else's| Like pure water touching clear sky.  -R. Brautigan
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: dave@pipi.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp (David Wuertele)
Subject: Re: new year's resolutions
Organization: Institute of Industrial Science, University of tokyo.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:53:00 GMT

In article <725733330.AA08560@urchin.fidonet.org> Howard.Gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber) writes:
> Gregory D. Surbeck  <gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu> writes:
>  GDS> Terry's post a few days ago got my mind on the subject.
> 
> I'll make it to lose the 15 pounds in my middle. That in itself should improve
> my hill climbing.

Mine's to gain 15 pounds everywhere else.  I wonder if gaining muscle
weight has any better relative effect on hill climbing than loosing
non-muscle weight?

Dave
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 08:56:59 EST(-0500)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck) writes:
> Some states have laws requiring a vehicle to pull off the road if more
> than 5 cars are lined up behind it and it is not doing the speed
> limit.  The state of Washington ...

This is simply not an issue on most roads, even busy ones.  I rode from Seattle
to Eugene this summer and never had more than two cars waiting to pass me, and
that rarely.  Of course, roads in the West often have paved shoulders, which
are almost nonexistent in the East, and have wide lanes more often as well.

My experience has been similar elsewhere, including SE Pennsylvania.  Including
city traffic.

The simple fact is that if traffic is so heavy that a bicyclist causes five-car
backups on a regular basis, then any anomaly in motorized traffic will also
cause delays.  One response of highway engineers is then to widen the lanes to
14 feet.  With 14-foot lanes, most vehicles can pass bicycles safely in the
same lane.  The engineers may also modify the roads in ways less hospitable to
bicycles, but they will not leave that situation alone.

marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:
                    ^^^^^^^^^^
                    (What a wonderful name!  May I borrow it?)
> Automotorists tend to consider the space to the right of the centerline and
> to the left of the shoulder to be theirs to use as they choose. If there is
> no painted line at the right border of the motor portion of the travel
> lane, an automotorist is likely to consume the entire space.

Good.  That's what we want them to do.  If they stay at one edge, then they
start making two lanes out of one.  Once they do that, you do indeed have a
nasty situation.  In fact, this is why 14-foot lanes are recommended but not
16-foot lanes.  Go to cities in the NE US and you will see auto drivers
double-laning at the slightest opportunity.

The motorist will move to the left side of the lane upon observing a bicyclist
on the right.  The fact that the motorist will use the center of the lane at
other times is not a problem for bicyclists unless the motor traffic is moving
more slowly than the bicyclists.  Even then, there is generally plenty of space
for bicyclists to pass on the right.

One of the problems with painted bike lanes is specifically than motorists do
*not* regard them as usable lanes.  They make right turns from the left or
center lanes rather than moving to the right.  They tend to ignore traffic in
the bike lane rather regarding it as part of the overall traffic pattern, thus
decreasing the bicyclists' effective visibility, which I believe we all agree
is dangerous.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.resun.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck)
Subject: Bikeways (was Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 05:00:06 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park


	I agree with John Forester that it is not reasonable to
exclusively ride on paths for commuting or any other purpose.  I also
submit that bikeways can create a link avoiding heavily trafficked
streets in favor of less-populated paths.  Or a link between two areas
connected by interstate or similar road where cycling is illegal.
	Cycling at road speeds for many cyclists is not possible.  I
cannot maintain (or attain, with current tires) 45 mph, the speed
limit on many local roads.  If a cyclist could maintain 35 mph, he
would still be about 15 mph slower than traffic.  35 + 15 = 50, the
speed many drivers drive at on the road.  On most roads in my area,
drivers exceed the speed limit.  Who among us (besides Dave Harvey)
can maintain 50 mph?  I congratulate you for exceeding the ability of
the majority, if not all, cyclists.
	Second, Mr. Forester (please correct the title if incorrect)
says that cycling requires no more effort than driving a car.  If you
sway side to side in a car, the shocks might bounce; if you twitch the
steering wheel, the car *slightly* shifts direction.  Do the same on a
bicycle and the results are much more dramatic.  Driving a bike and
driving a car are *very* different.
	The tasks which Mr. Forester demands of us to ride with him
are simply beyond most of our abilities.  What would you have us do?
Give up cycling because we don't meet your criteria?
From: sstrand@u.washington.edu (Stuart E. Strand)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.soc
Date: 29 Dec 1992 23:22:05 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.95.36.218

Before this discussion reaches the conclusion that bikeways (delineated
lanes on roadways) and bike paths (separate from roadways) are more
dangerous than conventional roadways, could we see the statistics that
support this assertion?

I have seen data on types of accidents and inferences drawn (very
indirectly) that bikeways provide little benefit, but I have *not* seen
statistics directly supporting the contention that there is a greater
likelihood of accident or a greater likelihood of serious injury or death
on bikeways or bike paths.  

Before we accept what some may view as a counterintuitive conclusion
(separation from cars is unsafe), how about the evidence?

                                ---  0
        == Stuart ==             -- _|\_/\_    
                                   (_)     ()
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Stuart Strand, Univ.Washington              sstrand@u.washington.edu
AR-10, Seattle WA 98195 206-543-5350   uunet:  beaver!milton!sstrand
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc