HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James Dusek)
Subject: Re: Valiant sucks
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:58:51 GMT

v070km6q@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (John B Schutkeker) writes:

>In article <1992Aug26.211646.2140@unixg.ubc.ca>, jcomeau@unixg.ubc.ca (Joe Comeau) writes...
>>The only people it seems to bother are those that wish to go out and purchase
>>2, 3 or 4 copies of #1s.  I don't feel sorry for these people at all.
>I knew you would say this, eventually.  Philosophically arrogant people (like
>you) irk me.  They don't care if people get tricked and hurt.  They only care
>if they're right, and they laugh when people who disagree with them suffer.
>Anybody who laughs at the suffering of another has mental health problems.

	John, lighten up. nobody was tricked or hurt, this is a comic
we're talking about. You owe Joe an apology for this. 

>>READ the story, forget about trying to make a fast buck.  
>Has it occurred to you that there is a strong correllation between the creative
>quality of a comic and it's price and demand as a back issue?  It is possible

	HAHAHAHAHAHA, Has it occurred to you that your totally wrong. Some
excellant material can be found in the .50 bins at comic stores. Quality does
not equal instant popularity.

>before I know it's good.  I find that the market has very good judgement, and
>when the market decides something is good, I hardly ever disagree.

	That market has VERY POOR judgement. The "market" is affected by
trends and fads.

>Has it also occurred to you that when speculators get hurt by these gimmicks,
>dealers are also getting hurt?  Speculators are really just entry-level dealers.

	Only when the dealer is a Speculator.

>I do shows, etc.  And when dealers are getting hurt by being stuck with stuff
>for which there will never be a demand, the industry is being hurt, too.

	I do shows also. If I screw up and over order a comics, it is MY fault.
Not the markets. Good dealers can guess what will do good and what won't. If not
the dealer goes out of buiness. Thats life.

>This is because the money wasted on such gimmicks disappears from circulation,
>but investments that pay off multiply the cash of a speculator/dealer, which
>they use to buy more comics. So the gimmicks hurt everybody in the industry and
>the industry itself. 

	If you want investments go to the stock market. The stock market
mentality is killing comics. X-men #1 and X-force #1 were the problem. 
Ever comic maker saw how gulible people were in buying these. Than along
came Robin #1 and team titans #1. Team titans I enjoyed. They could have
done it different, but I don't mind. DC didn't jack up the price of the 
comic like marvel to cover the gimmic.

					James Dusek
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Vampire Hunter C)
Subject: Re: Quotes from reviews
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 04:48:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.002828.8390@sunb10.cs.uiuc.edu>, wesselak@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu (Erik Wesselak) writes:
> 
> Didn't Rolling Stone do a piece on Sandman a while back?  (Or is RS not
> "respectable")

No, it isn't.

Aside:  am I the only one who gets pi**ed off at the fact that every time
a magazine decided to print an article on comics, it has to have a title
like "BANG! POW!  COMICS AREN'T FOR KIDS ANYMORE!" or some such crap?
[Please, no mentions about Ellison's PLAYBOY article.  That's the exception
that proves the rule.]

-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dat@thinkage.on.ca (David Adrien Tanguay)
Subject: Re: Cerebus Summary Wanted (just M&D) <SPOILERS!!>
Organization: Thinkage, Ltd.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:09:53 GMT

conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty III) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.015615.21050@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen) writes:
>>           Why the sequence is called "Mothers and Daughters"
>
>The entire 50-issue arch is called M&D.  Why, I don't know yet.

One of the tenants of Cirinism is that only mothers have full citizenship.
So "mothers" are the Cirinists. Astoria is the daughter (adopted, I think)
of Cirin, and is the creator of Kevillism. So "daughters" are Kevillists.
The novel is about a power struggle between Cirin and Astoria, between the
Cirinists and the Kevillists. Ta da!
-- 
David Tanguay       dat@Thinkage.on.ca  dat@Thinkage.com  uunet!thinkage!dat
Thinkage, Ltd.           Kitchener, Ontario, Canada          [43.40N 80.47W]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Excalibur, LEGION, LotDMite
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 19:00:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na

dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen):
>     Excalibur - Finally the plotlines developed years ago come to fruition.  
>However, I can't beleive *all* those characters will stay dead.

Seems like a safe bet.  It's a good rule of thumb that when heroes
start dying at the rate of one per panel, they aren't *seriously*
dead.  (Especially when there's someone around with reality-altering
powers.)

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

Roses red and violets blew
  and all the sweetest flowres that in the forrest grew -- Edmund Spenser

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons)
Subject: Re: Miracleman #23
Organization: Inland Sea
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 11:26:22 GMT

conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty III) writes:

>In article <1992Aug30.185949.18101@sunb10.cs.uiuc.edu>, wesselak@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu (Erik Wesselak) writes:
>> wogg0743@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (William Shakespeare) writes:
>> >ps.  Oh, yeah, YM should want to right wrongs, not write them.  Bah.
>> 
>> I found this to be a very interesting (possible) typo.

>Typo?  I thought it was his accent.

Right.
-- 
 "When Dexter's on the Internet, can Hell be far behind?"
		-- Steve Simmons, scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: Alexx@world.std.com (Alexx S Kay)
Subject: Re: Miracleman #23
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:16:53 GMT

wesselak@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu (Erik Wesselak) writes:

[...]
>Oh, now that I've thought about it, I'd bet that Dennis Archer is aware of the
>'abraxis' words.  But why was he not allowed to be restored when Gargunza was?
>Too much of a risk having both of them alive again?  Or perhaps MM has devel-
>oped some amount of affection or respect for Gargunza?

Has it been stated specifically that Archer was not allowed to be restored?
I don't recall it being mentioned.  We haven't *seen* him restored, but that
doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't done.  Unless I'm spacing on a mention
somewhere in Book 4...

Alexx

Alexx@world.std.com
"And then there's Magneto in the Bronze Age.  'Pharoah hates us...shuns us...
 because we are DIFFERENT.  I must DESTROY Pharoah's army with my mutant 
 ability to cause RABBIT FUR to attract small bits of PAPYRUS in order to 
 make Egypt SAFE for man-which-is-superior!'" -- Steven desJardins
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: maguire@copland.jpl.nasa.gov (Kevin Maguire)
Subject: Speculation and the market (was: Valiant sucks)
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:22:26 GMT


Actually, I think that speculation hurts the market, or at least MY market,
for reasons that have been discussed before, but I'll discuss 'em again,
because they haven't come up yet in this particular argument.

Almost all dealers have extremely limited display space and even more limited
capital to invest in this month's books.  Thus, when someone releases X 
different (cover/card/hologram/who dies in this issue/which Wolverine origin
we get) versions, each of those versions chases some other book off the 
shelf to open the space where it is displayed.  If 8 godzillion of them are
ordered so every fanboy can buy 10*, they take up even more space and dealer
capital.

Guess where that space and capital come from - the indies.  The stuff which
is nearly impossible to find in the first place, will now be found in even less
places.  I buy by mail order, and I submit my order 3 months ahead so 
my dealer can order EXACTLY as many as he will sell and I still get screwed
all the time, because Diamond often fails to ship books to stores that ordered 
less than 5 copies at a time.  Multiple version X-books, Image books and Robin 
books cause things like Love and Rockets and Empire Lanes to vanish, and that 
pisses me off.

All of y'all buying 20 copies of some #1 - buy 19 and use the extra money to
try some indie that looked cool when you flipped through it in the store.
You COULD even make a lot of money - look at TMNT #1 and CEREBUS #1.
Most of those new "hot" artists started somewhere else first.

* - yes I'm insulting anyone who thinks they can speculate on books with
the largest print runs EVER, especially the chumps who paid over cover 
weeks after they came out when they were released as sets to WAL-MART 
below cover a few months later.  Where you gonna increase the demand by
(current readership) x (number copies you bought)?  If you enjoy watching
WIZARD pump the "guide price", I wish you the best, but don't think anybody 
but another "speculator" will actually PAY that price.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Maguire			No, not THAT Kevin Maguire.
maguire@copland.jpl.nasa.gov	I'm a rocket scientist, not an artist
From: v070km6q@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (John B Schutkeker)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Valiant sucks
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:47:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <BtKvAv.4Jt@ais.org>, saab@ais.org (Micheal Marks) writes...

>		....And Venom is a "who cares" character now.
>Even Wolvie is reaching the "who cares" plateau now.
>
> 
>The Three Most-Asked Questions on the phone to a comic store:
> 
>1:Any Image Books coming out?
>2:Any Valiant Books coming out?
>3:Why Not?

I wasn't sure how to interpret your argument.  If you're suggesting that the
reason that Wolvie and Venom are getting to be "who cares" characters is
because everybody wants Inage and Valiant titles, you may be right, for now,
but I don't expect it to last.  Remenber when Dark Horse was so spectacular
because it was a strong 3rd to Marvel and DC and had hired Frank Miller and
John Byrne to do stories.  Remember when American Flagg and Dreadstar were the
most Happeningest things in the Indie market.  Things can turn around fast for
Indies, and they will for Image and Valiant, IMHO.  It will just take a little
longer, because their entry into the marketplace has been so strong.

						-- John S.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver)
Subject: Re: The Trouble with SANDMAN (Unrepentant Heresy About To Be...)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 18:36:46 GMT

conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty III) writes:
>tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:
 
>> <laugh> What do you think of Dickens?
>
>Not much.  Send flames to rec.arts.books, which I don't read nowadays.

Nah, I loathe Dickens. His only good point is that he inspired Mervyn Peake.

>> and in answer to Conty, I think the plots *are*
>> coherent - where are the inconsistencies? Or even irrelevant issues?
>
>Nothing so extreme.  But the whole business of the Key to Hell in "Season
>of Mists" was rather lacking.  After a couple of issues with Gaiman trying
>to generate some intrigue as to who will get it, he ends up writing a
>"deus ex machina" anti-climax, and in the literal sense at that!

I thought that resolution was the whole point. It's like, at the end of the
_Doll's House_ storyline, expecting Rose Walker to die. It's only at the end
of #15, when Gilbert tells us that Morpheus is to kill Rose that we have any
inkling she's not going to die. Along the way we have the horrors of people
being unpleasant to each other: street thugs and serial killers in _Doll's
House_, the larger pettinesses of gods in _Season of Mists_.

>  now, this
>is not INHERENTLY wrong (there are some good ways to do it), but the way
>it was handled leaves us with a story with exposition, build-up, and
>conclusion, but no climax.  It's like sex without orgasm.

Mmmm. I think God pushing angels over the edge in order to maintain his
pattern of the universe, and Dream letting the duality reassert itself is
a good story. I think the climax is there in the exquisite agony of Remiel,
and Duma's silent acceptance. 

>> Tanaqui (who, alas, also thinks Death is cute. [...]
>
>Same here.  (I didn't say I agreed with him, I said I understood how he
>felt... ^_^)

I suspect that finding Death "cute" is infra dig. |-)

Tanaqui

"..he whose quill would pulse as he wrote and fill with a blush of blue, like
 a bruised nail. His verses...open out like flowers of glass, and at their
 centre, between the brittle petals, lies a pool of indigo, translucent, and
 as huge as doom."           Mervyn Peake on Andrema, the lyricist, the lover
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: kogutt@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SCAVENGER)
Subject: Re: The Hacker Files
Keywords: DC, Hacker FIles
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:28:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.040100.22967@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com> booga@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com (Steve Jankowski) writes:
>In article <tbs.715367511@login.dkuug.dk>, tbs@login.dkuug.dk (Torben B. S|rensen) writes:
>>The Hacker Files by Lewis Shiner seems to be the first comic book devoted
>>solely to hacking and computers. Does anybody know if there has been any 
>>reaction from the "hacker society" (programmers, companies, others).
>
>lead character seemed a bit stupid.  (note that it's been cut back to a
>limited 12 issue run)

Uhhh, it always was a 12-issue series, to maybe become unlimited later.

P.S.I like it.

-----SCAVENGER

-- 
KAHN: And I never forget a face.  Mr. Chekov,   |  kogutt@ucsu.colorado.edu
           isn't it?                            |      (Internet/Usenet)
CHEKOV:  But, I wasn't in that episode!!!       | No matter where you go, there
     (from MST3K:The Wrath of Kahn)             |    you are."-Buckaroo Banzai 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: ins434u@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (D. May)
Subject: Re: The Ray and the New Universe
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:24:10 GMT

mikebcg@ocf.berkeley.edu (Mikel Bancroft) writes:

>Okay there are two things I would like help in.  First off, I picked
>up 4 of the 6 issues of The Ray, out of a 25 cent bin no less, and I
>was wondering if anyone has heard any news of it going to a monthly
>series.

I believe that a second Ray mini-series is coming out - due to the popularity
of the first mini-series.  I am unsure of the possibility of a monthly series
but if we all wrote to the creative team, then who knows, we might get lucky.
(Or unlucky, depending how you see it)

Daniel May.


Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: saab@ais.org (Micheal Marks)
Subject: Re: Shooter LEFT?!? A Question...
Organization: UMCC
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 07:17:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.190040.3915@stsci.edu> wmorgan@stsci.edu (Windsor A. Morgan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.124117.2045@wkuvx1.bitnet> barnejd@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>>HANG ON!!!!!!
>
>>  Shooter LEFT?!?  I knew I hadn't seen his name on anything, but
>>WHAT HAPPENED?  Mna, have I ever been out of it!
>
>You sure have.  He left about five years ago.  Tom DeFalco is the
>Editor-in-chief at Marvel now, and screwing up the place, in my
>opinion.  Last I heard about Shooter was that he was going to work for
>some company named Valiant.  They make Super Mario Brothers comic
>books.
 
Yeah, and #1 is already 10 bucks!  Boy, you slap that Shooter name
on something and BANG!  They were supposed to do some of those
lame 60's Gold Key characters like Magnus Robot Fighter and Turok
and Dr. Solar in the near future.  Like anybody cares.
 
MDM
(note: the $10 is real, believe it or not.  Guffaw)
>
>-- 
>'Verily, there be no leader as wise as the Vision!'
>                         Windsor Morgan (wmorgan@stsci.edu OR NHT@PSUVM.BITNET)
>                         Space Telescope Science Institute
>                         Baltimore, MD   21218


-- 
"To be the man, you have to BEAT the man" Ric Flair, EX-REAL World's "The Man"
"Pain don't hurt none" "The key to winning is not losing"  Sparky Anderson
"The only battle that counts is the last one"  Leader Desslok
Micheal Marks  On IRC:Drstyle  saab@ais.org  mmarks@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen)
Subject: Fanboys Take Over Elementals! ACK!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:09:17 GMT

On reading the house ads in the recent issue of Elementals, I saw several 
*very* disturbing things.  They now promise "Marvel-style action".  When I want
that, I buy Marvel...it's cheaper and easier to find.  They also will have both
foil and glow-in-the-dark covers for the miniseries that will wrap up the 
Oblivion War story that loyal Elementals fans have been following for years 
now.  It is very offensive to have to buy fanboy bait to see the end of a story
that *started* in a fairly good indie.  And of course, bragging that they have 
covers by "Marvel Artists" like Keith and Simonson does little to enhance my 
respect for a book that is rapidly sinking into the Image Trap.
     But worst of all is a letter in the lettercol.  I quote, "...but please 
kill Monolith, he keeps bringing the group down, he is too intellectual, and so
many other characters are stronger him [sic] now."  *TOO 
INTELLECTUAL*?!?!?!?!?!?!?!  *gag*  The very fact that such a fanboy would be 
reading Elementals confirms that their focus has been, if not lost, greatly 
diminished.  I mean, the story itself this issue was pretty good, using such 
elements as the Spear of Destiny and Merlin's history.  But that's just the 
writers.  The editor obviously (IMNSHO) wants to attract the kind of brainless 
person who wrote the letter I quoted, the kind who doesn't want "intellectual" 
characters, and cares more about power than characterization.  Elementals was a
good concept because it focused more on the people with the powers than on the 
powers and costumes.  But with the plethora of extraneous characters introed 
lately, it looks like characterization will fall sadly behind in the race for 
page space.
     Dave Van Domelen, hoping a new editorial staff takes over Elementals 
before too much harm is done...the writers can only hold out so long...
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen)
Subject: Impact postmortem and LSH trends
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 02:56:24 GMT

I picked up Comet #15 today (surprise surprise, the two other shops I go to 
first didn't stock it beyond their pulls), and a quote on page six struck me as
quite apt in describing the reason I still read both Comet and LSH.
     "Right now, the only thing that holds me together is momentum.  That, and 
a growing, morbid curiosity to see how much more horrible my situation can 
get."
     Dave Van Domelen, somehow enjoys watching death throes of a comic
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: lsmith@mega.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: Sandspawn and Watchspawns
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 01:20:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.222220.3327@thinkage.on.ca> dat@thinkage.on.ca (David Adrien Tanguay) writes:
>
>I don't know about SpawnRoach, but, the way things are going, we may be
>seeing some RoachSpawn soon.

Hmmm, don't think so. Although the Roach started out as a Bat-influenced 
character, Sim has used it mainly to tweek Marvel and their characters. 
(This may have something to do with the ado over Wolveroach. I dunno.)
Someone at Image would have to tick Dave off before he started an ImageRoach.

(If I had to guess, I'd say a SupremeRoach is possible just cause that 
looks like the dumbest of the upcoming Image titles. Plus the Roach 
already looks a little like Supreme.) 

As he says in his Note from the President, we're more likely to see a
Cerespawn. 

This means that I will be buying at least 4 copies of Spawn. (Sure, Gaiman
is only supposed to write one, but if he's true to form...) I had absolutely
no intention of buying the comic before the news of this week. He may come 
across as quite shallow, but give the Toddmeister credit. If all this pans
out, it is a major coup. He already had a large portion of the comic buyers
who would buy the book just for his art. He's about to attract another
portion who will buy some of the issues for the writing and the pin-up of
Cerebus. Who knows, he may hold onto some of those additional readers. 
--
 Lance "Totally Lost" Smith  |   "O! that this too solid lead would melt,
     (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)     |    Thaw, and resolve itself into a dew;"  
 "It's a fine line between   |   "Follow team spirit; and, upon this charge
     stupid and clever"      |    Cry 'God for Kelly! Minnesota and St Olaf!'"
From: murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Patches and retcons /LSH
Date: 25 Aug 92 13:37:27 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA

>I dont understand what [garth-is-really-proty-nonsense] changes about
>Garth's character so much that everyone is so damn adamently against this.  
>
>dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu (michael j pastor iii)

because it is not good storytelling.

see?  it only took me six words!

ok
dpm
-- 
murphy@npri6.npri.com 602 Cameron St. Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 683-9090

              When every one is dead the Great Game is finished.  Not before.
                              --- Hurree Babu, "Kim"
From: albert@chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Team Titans mysterious leader (*SPOILERS*)
Date: 27 Aug 1992 16:51:36 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx

In article <Btn9HD.Mto@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mlj44080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael Lee Jacobs) writes:
>I dont think its Danny Chase...simply because he is already Phantasm, and was
>involved in the Wildebeest fiasco before the timelines split (note the split
>occurred when Waverider looked into NightWing's future after he was captured.

	Except that at that time, Phantasm was just Danny Chase with a
bedsheet, a hockey mask, and a voice modulator.   If Waverider hadn't 
interfered, I guess that the Wildebeast fiasco would have ended differently,
and Danny didn't croak.  Beats me as to how, though.

>time split.  also Mr Grummet was prolly making fun of all the people who guessed
>that Danny was Phantasm :)

	Oh, that was TOTALLY obvious.  (at least to me)
-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
    Wanted:Scrodinger's Cat.  Dead or Alive.  $10,000 Reward.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc