HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Codex Runicus
Keywords: rune
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:52:35 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA


	Regarding the "Codex Runicus", a vellum manuscript on which runes
are written in pen and ink, I have gathered the following information.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
              and Technology etc." <MEDTEXTL@UIUCVMD.BITNET>

     E.V. Gordon mentions the Codex Runicus on p. lxiii of his _Introduction
to Old Norse_: "The laws of Skaane (in the Danish Codex Runicus AM 28
, octavo) are written in a runic hand of great promise."  It is, however, a
vellum, not a paper manuscript.
                               Good Luck,
                                          Roy White
                                          University of Minnesota

              and Technology etc." <MEDTEXTL@UIUCVMD.BITNET>
Subject:      runica manuscripta

There were lots of written runes around, in various forms and for various
purposes, even, again, by Hrabanus and others; the Vatican's alphabet room
has runes painted there, along with a Gothic alphabet.  The Abcedarium
Nordmannicum cites the runes, their names and all kinds of other good
stuff.  Hermann Schneider, Runennamen.  Rene Derolez has, I think (I am
not totally all together tonight), a book called Runica manuscripta on all
this ... It's in a series, and nothing comes to me from out the cavernous
maw at the moment.  It would be well if we could adopt a method of keying
our messages a la Korzybski, as amateur/enthusiast/believer -- scholar --
adept, although these would not be mutually exclusive.  There is a good
deal of scholarship on runes of a hard-nosed type, epitomized by the work
of my colleague Elmer Antonsen, for example.  You ought to look at his
Runic grammar.  There is some fairly wild stuff on magic runes, and there
are modern adepts at rune-casting.  At times, as in my own case, all three
of these are wrapped up in the same person, but for the most part they do
not communicate with each other.  Only kidding about the labeling; we
have enough problems with our emoticons <--<). (This means: sternitude).
Jim Marchand

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So there we are.  There are some runes written in books in pen and ink,
though they are clearly something of an anomaly.

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: olofe@Dublin.DoCS.UU.SE (Olof Ekstr|m)
Subject: Re: Codex Runicus
Keywords: rune
Reply-To: olofe@Dublin.DoCS.UU.SE (Olof Ekstr|m)
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:41:48 GMT

In 'remote' parts of Sweden, runes were carved in wooden staves, and I believe,
also written on paper, all the way into the 19th century. I'll try to look up 
the details and get back to you on this.

============================================================================
 Olof Ekstrom	(Ekstroem)		olofe@Bern.DoCS.uu.se
 Last(?) year student of Computing Science, Uppsala University
From: pjotr@ludd.luth.se (Peter Sj|str|m)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Stockholm Water Festival
Date: 22 Aug 92 12:59:40 GMT
Organization: Lule} H|gskolas datorf|rening ( Ludd )

In <BtCqyp.38t@oceania.com> steve@oceania.com (Steve Dakin) writes:

>pardon me if I'm jumping in kind of late, but when is the Water Festival?

	The Stockholm Water Festival started 1991. It is a festival lasting
ten days around the beginning of August. It has lots of music, activities
for all, young or old, lots of street markets, food, world championship in
fireworks (Spain won in 91, dunno about this year). I think over 2 million
people visited it in 91. 

	I was in Stockholm during the whole festival this year. It was great!
Sometimes it was so much people in the streets that you couldn't even get
through. The fireworks were fantastic! (every second day; Taiwan, USA, France,
Spain and Germany competed) There were a street carneval, students' water
race with strange vehicles (SQUALP?), the great (?) duck race etc. You get
lots of rebates at hotels and can travel cheap to the festival using the
special 'pass' that cost SEK 50 (9 USD). You also get lots of offers with that
pass like all museums for half the price etc.

(Can someone please fill me in or explain further! I'm not too talkative
right now.)

		/Peter
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: pem@delial.DoCS.UU.SE (Per-Erik Martin)
Subject: Re: Vikings savages
Organization: Student
	<1992Aug13.161430.1619@corax.udac.uu.se>
	<1992Aug13.190032.3200@corax.udac.uu.se>
	<1992Aug14.195000.26111@burrhus.harvard.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:58:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.195000.26111@burrhus.harvard.edu> canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson) writes:

>In article <1992Aug13.190032.3200@corax.udac.uu.se> pem@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Per-Erik Martin) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug13.161430.1619@corax.udac.uu.se> andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson) writes:
>>>Were the runes ever used on paper or similar material (perhaps in
>>>Dalarna), i.e. written with something like a pen?  If so, did that
>>>contribute to the development of the glyphs, and how?
>>
>>No, not to my knowledge, except maybe in Dalarna in the end.

>	Actually, there is a book "Codex Runicus" written with pen and ink
>in runes.  I can't recall the date or other information on it offhand but I
>believe it is a law code.

Well, I don't think the runes where ever commonly written with pen and ink,
or printed in books, but of course there are both handwritings and books.
Bureus ABC is of course partly printed with runes, and I have a couple of
prints of wich one is possibly based on a handwriting, Fragmentum Runico-
Papisticum, I haven't managed to find that out yet. I wish I could read
Latin... (The other print is a forgery, Historia Hialmari. Someone made
it in the 17th century and claimed that it was an old runic document
proving one thing or another about Sweden's great history.)

As I said the runes where used by the common people who where illiterate
with regard to the latin alphabet, and they probably didn't have the
necessary equipment to write with. (After all, already the vikings must
have known about both pen and paper and other alphabets and languages,
since they worked and traded in countries where these were used, but at
home they stuck to what was available, wood. Later it was the Church and
the higher classes who had writing tools.)

Btw, I'd like to have a reference to that Codex Runicus. I can't find
any myself.
--
 |\/|\/|\/| Per-Erik Martin,
 |  |  |/\| Department of Computer Systems, Uppsala University,
 |/\|  |  | Email: pem@minsk.DoCS.UU.SE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hvaisane@cs.joensuu.fi (H. Vaisanen)
Subject: Re: Business (was Re: Immigrants and employment)
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:19:00 GMT

jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun) writes:
>There are many ways to define, and to find the "need", you know.

How would ***you*** define and find the "need"?
Who should decide what people need?
Who knows the best what *I* need? Me or some central planning committee?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ovr@vipunen.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Subject: Re: Another Finnish Question
Reply-To: ovr@vipunen.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:00:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.201740.27510@corax.udac.uu.se> andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson) writes:
>can offer an opinion:  This SW province of Finland appears to go
>by two entirely different names.  What more, each name seems to
>have an official translation into each language!  Thus:
>
>Finnish:	Turunmaa		Varsinais Suomi
>Swedish:	AAboland		Egentliga Finland
>English:	'Province of Turku'	'Finland proper'

Turunmaa/]boland refers only to to the archipelago W-SW-S of Turku (with a
Swedish-speaking majority), whereas Varsinais-Suomi/Egentliga Finland is
Turun ja Porin l{{ni/]bo och Bj|rneborgs l{n - Satakunta/Satakunda ie. 
rougly the area south of the line Uusikaupunki-Loimaa and west of the line
Loimaa-Salo-Kemi| (]land/Ahvenanmaa excluded)

>I suppose Finnish provinces all have their coats of arms, just
>like their Swedish counterparts?

Sure. The coat of arms of Varsinais-Suomi has two Swedish flags (sic!) and
(if I remember correctly) a helmet on a red shield.
-- 
Ott-Vill R___________________        Nyrxfnagreva_xngh wn Xhavaxnna_xngh
ovr@vipunen.hut.fi                           ba erunovyvgbvgnin!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: etxmow@garboc34.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg)
Subject: Re: nationalism, Finns, Chinese, etc.
Keywords: none
Organization: Ericsson
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 08:49:45 GMT

jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun) writes:


>And to Mats Winberg :

>Yes, I'm willing to let 4 millions Africans into Norway. After all,
>letting them live in Norway is better than letting them starve to death
>in Africa. Huh ?

>And I am not scared of them completely change the demography of Norway.
>Can't see anything wrong in it.

    Tell that to Gro, she didn't seem to have same opinion as you,
    when asked by the Swedes to let more Yugoslavs in.

    Mats Winberg
    etxmow@tore.ericsson.se



>+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
>| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
>| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
>| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: cczjtw@vax.nott.ac.uk (John Whitehorn)
Subject: News of Lion in Finland
Reply-To: cczjtw@vax.nott.ac.uk (John Whitehorn)
Organization: University of Nottingham, UK
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 09:12:48 BST

I've been away from my terminal for a month. Before I left there was a
lot of talk on this newsgroup about a Lion in Finland, was it ever 
found?
	John Whitehorn
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Subject: Re: Immigrants and employment
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 08:51:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.143352.21503@corax.udac.uu.se>, andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson) writes:
|> 
|> Business constitute an integral part of society.  If business give up
|> on some individuals, part of society implicitely does.  If some other
|> part of society (say, the government, or a volunteer organization)
|> starts offering jobs, they are per definition engaging in business.
|> If they do this in a profitable way, anybody would do the same.  If
|> they do it in an unprofitable way, they are wasting somebody's money.
|> 
|> I don't buy your reasoning that when one particular business fail to
|> provide jobs to people, there should be a default business for them to
|> fall back on, a business that is profitable and charitable at once.
|> 


Would a business pay workers for doing nothing ?
If a business was forced to pay a fixed amount of workers - wouldn't it
try to make a job for those ?
I'd think the business' owner was stupid if not !

If your answer to the second question is yes - then what about the
society ?
The society is forced to pay a fixed amount of workers (the
inhabitants) - isn't it stupid to pay them for doing nothing, instead
of paying them for their work ?


|> 
|> What you are looking for is an insurance policy, where the contributors
|> are willing to pay the expenses of the unfortunate few, in return for
|> the same safety being provided to them.  When there is nobody around to
|> implement these insurance policies (perhaps because they are outlawed
|> by the government), you can bet that problems will arise.
|> 


No, no - I'm looking for some kind of sense in the economical policy.
The norwegian society loses billions of kroner every year, if you
measure the production capacity of the unemployed.


|> 
|> This issue is not very specific to the Nordic countries, other than us
|> being often referred to as examples in either a negative or a positive
|> sense, depending on the speaker's opinion.  Besides, it must be one of
|> the most protracted debates of the history of human civilization. ;-)
|> 
|> As for immigration, I think two more hands to do labour in general
|> even out one more mouth to feed.  Who came up with the silly idea
|> of putting restrictions on where people could go, to begin with?
|> --
|> Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hvaisane@cs.joensuu.fi (H. Vaisanen)
Subject: Re: Immigrants and employment
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 10:08:50 GMT

jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun) writes:
>Does it work fine "because the demand always defines the supply" ?
>What about the millions of people in Africa starving to death nowadays
>- don't they have any demands or needs for food and water ?

Have you considered the possibility that 'the millions of people in
Africa' are starving because the African governments are finding more
urgent needs for their funds than to buy food for their citizens, like
the government of Namibia who recently bought a private airplane,
worth over US$ 25 million, for the president?

If I remember correctly, this caused the governments of Sweden and
Norway (but NOT Finland) to stop their 'emergency aid' to Namibia.



>Poor mathematics - you still avoid defining the need !

What is the definition of 'need' you want to hear? (-:
Who defines it? The all-knowing government?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: landstry@tpki.toppoint.de (Michael Schack)
Subject: Sociology in Scandinavia
Organization: Toppoint Mailbox e.V.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:53:10 GMT


Hello,

perhaps this is the wrong place but I want to ask if
there are some scandinavian sociologists who are
interested in scientific exchange. I'm studying socio-
logy in Kiel (you know, the town where ferries go to
Oslo and Goeteborg). Right now I'm finishing my studies
with research concerning disaster-behaviour and disaster-
management. Aspecially the impact of computertechnology
will take the greatest part of my writings.

It would be great to here something about this in scandi-
navia. I`ve been in Sweden (Uppsala) one year and so I'm
able to talk/write swedish so it`s no problem with hints
to books or other informations.

By the way: Is it true that Denmark will have an Department
of Sociology in 1993??? In Kopenhagen? Last time I asked
for it the answer was that I have to go to Lund (Sweden).

If somebody can help me please send PMail or "on the net".

bye,
micha...
-- 
/ M. Schack /  / landstry  /  landstry@tpki.toppoint.de
             / Kiel      /               --internet--
           / Germany   /   gif01@rz.uni-kiel.dbp.de

            

	    
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: haavardf@boson.uio.no (Haavard Fosseng)
Subject: Re: Sami population
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
	<HAAVARDF.92Aug12195806@gluon.uio.no>
	<1992Aug13.160706.1535@corax.udac.uu.se>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:40:45 GMT

Ooops, forgot about that small stretch of sea between Norway and denmark :-)

I got my information from school lessons in the unimaginably distant past,
and these naturally stressed Norway. Sami did inhabit southern Norway.


H}vard
From: leisti@cc.helsinki.fi (Teemu Leisti)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Childrend`s reading ability / was Re: What is Norden?
Date: 16 Aug 92 16:37:22 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: University of Helsinki

torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:

>   (This was mentioned on the radio in connection with an international
> investigation of the reading skills of 8 and 9 year old children
> from 30 countries, in which the US did best, followed by Finland and
> Sweden.)

Here they told us that Finnish kids did best!  Who is being lied to?

--  Teemu Leisti  /  U. of Helsinki, Finland  /  leisti@cc.helsinki.fi

"`This purgatory of the spirit, this animal thirst for self-preservation,
  these humiliating moments of the human soul, are awful, and sometimes
  arouse horror and compassion for the criminal even in a lawyer....'"
                              -- F. Dostoyevsky, _The Brothers Karamazov_
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: dgolber@aero.org (Dave Golber)
Subject: Re: Germans drowning in Sweden
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:43:56 GMT

Coming up Oslo fjord on un-announced visits late at night?
(Oh: That's drowning in Norway.)

"OUR cruise arrives a few days before the English cruise."

:-)  .. at least, I think so.

Dave Golber
.
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Immigrants and employment
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 05:45:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.152441.10529@kth.se> tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE writes:
>In article <TAIPALE.92Aug20144916@node_23d9f.kiloapo.tele.nokia.fi>, taipale@kiloapo.tele.nokia.fi (Pekka J Taipale) writes:
>
>[about Finland]
>
>>...after all, my country was under a colonial rule, first Swedish...
>
>Just a minor point: in the "Swedish days" Finland was the eastern part of
>Sweden rather than a Swedish colony. You may think this is semantics, but
>the relationship (present) Finland - (present) Sweden in those days 
>wasn't all like e.g. India - Britain.
>
>Tomas
>

Tomas Eriksson seem to have very peculiar but Swedish way of seeing
things as an representant of an old colonial power which tries to give for the
history her own explanation.
He does never probably will understand like an old colonial style Brit
 why those under such
a brilliant administration did not were happy and satisfied and now complain.

Of course the Brits did not consider themselves as colonizators of India
but "we were bringing civilisation there" so Swedes thinking about Finland
600 years. So who decides who were colonialized or not,The Finns, the objects
of the administration  or
the colonial power, the Swedes.
Swedish colonialation of Finland was a typical relationship between
a colony and mainland.
Just compare:
Education wes given in Swedish, people were recruted into the Swedish army,
taxation, areas in Finland werre given for the Swedish nobles
 "because they were
owned by anybody",people were given Swedish names, Church services were
given in Swedish,The administration worked in Swedish, administrators
were send from Sweden, what is the different between India and Finland?
You cannot say distance. Finns were used as lobour source, as a source
to recruit into the swedish army people...shall I continue...
We should get compensation from Sweden like Africa, what you think?
Jarmo Ryyti

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se
>            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
>               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden


Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson)
Subject: Re: Business (was Re: Immigrants and employment)
Reply-To: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:47:57 GMT

I'd like to start by saying that I don't think that soc.culture.nordic 
is the right place for a gigantic general socialism/communism vs. 
capitalism/liberalism debate, but since it's already speeded up...

In article <1992Aug20.112830.27811@ugle.unit.no>, jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun) writes:
>My point is that you can't judge a system after what it claims to be,
>but after what it really is.
>
>You can't say that democracy is evil just because some jerk in South
>America says that his dictatorship is democratic.

We don't have to go as far as South America. Remember German 
"Democratic" Republic?

>You can't say that socialism is evil just because the Soviet "communist"
>party say they are socialists/communists. Very much of the Soviet
>system hadn't even the slightest in common with socialism, as it is
>"defined". (Not the USA "definition" !)

This is a typical attempt from western communists (and some western 
socialists) to defend their ideology. (Very few people proclaim "I 
fully support Josef Stalin and everything he ever did!" these days...)
I agree with you point above, that political systems should be judged
from what they are, and not what they claim to be.

*But* this also includes looking at their *actions*, and not only what the 
proponents of an ideology says is the final aim of that ideology. I.e. 
if you say "Socialism aims at making all people happy" and then finds 
out "Leninism/Stalinism in the Soviet Union didn't make all people 
happy", the conclusion "Soviet Union was not socialistic/communistic" is 
fairly uninteresting.

I can agree that killing off 10-20% of your population, making World War 
II possible and so on has very little to do with marxism or socialism in 
general. But most of the *societal structure* in the Soviet Union until 
the bitter end *was* socialistic! As you know, the whole theoretical
basis of marxism stresses the importance of ownership of the means of 
production. If you look at this, the most basic and important indicator 
if a country is socialistic or not, the Soviet Union *was* socialistic.
(And the western countries are mainly non-socialistic.) This means that
many, if not all, of the lessons learned from the Soviet Union and its
general breakdown *are* applicable to e.g. Scandinavia. 

There is ample evidence that planned, fully state controlled, economies 
don't work! This means that socialism on a general level, whether 
marxistic, leninistic, stalinistic, maoistic or secteristic, simply
doesn't work! (At least not the way the proponents claim.)

Tomas

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic