From: julie@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu (Julie Wright)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Any Available Jewish Men Out There??
Date: 12 Jan 93 00:19:49 GMT
	<1993Jan7.225814.20952@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
	<ewright.726520511@convex.convex.com>
	<1993Jan8.222334.20157@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
	<ewright.726726993@convex.convex.com>
Organization: The Cultural Elite

ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:

>tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode) writes:

>Well, I once knew someone whose hobby was collecting road-killed
>animals.  To the best of my knowledge, *none* of her friends shared
>that interest.  Strange?

You mean strange that no one shared that interest?

Heh.  Strange by my family's standards.  It's a rare holiday indeed that I
don't open the freezer and find some stiff-as-a-board critter waiting
to be skinned and stuffed.  Car trips can take a while when they insist
on turning back to collect some carcass.  Of course, both my mother and
my father are biologists, so they have an excuse for their peculiarities.

I don't think they met over a roadkill or anything romantic like that,
but they did meet in grad school.  They got divorced later but stayed
on friendly terms and still exchange presents like a book called 
"Flattened Fauna" (a guide to identifying particularly squashed roadkills)
and a T-shirt with pictures of various animal scats (i.e. turds).

>>Not exactly; developing your physical and mental powers (or, for that
>>matter, just about any other abilities) takes an investment in effort and
>>dedication. 

>Well, if that's the case, energy and dedication being finite quantities,
>the more you invest in developing your muscles, the less you have left
>to develop your mind.  But Trygve Lode, Charlie Martin, and Company are
>pretty vehement in denying that is true.

Well, Ed, it sounds like there are two logical answers to your problems:

a) look for a woman who is similar to you in most ways and does not exercise,
as you seem to be doing; or

b) find a woman who's smarter and/or more energetic than you are, so she
can afford to slough off all that brain power and time that exercise
requires, without falling too far behind you in wit and wisdom.  Or is
it that exercise offends you *morally* -- you'd feel such a person was
sinning by wasting their precious time, *all* of which should be spent
reading good books or going to lectures or something?

If you've developed your mind so thoroughly, why don't you share more
thoughts with us on things other than the 57th rehash of the Great
Exercise Debate?  Hell, it's probably more than 57 times; I haven't been
around very long.  Your case would be a lot more convincing if you seemed
to have other things to say about other aspects of life, as both Charlie
and Trygve do.  They don't exactly strike me as lugs with nothing to
talk about except how much they can bench press.  

I know lots of women who exercise, including myself, and I don't think
*any* of them list it as a requirement for men they get involved with.
No, I take it back, one of them does -- she's an aerobics teacher and a
bit obsessive about exercise, IMO -- but she's the only one.  All of us
are inclined to think of it as a plus, but it's one of *many* qualities
we look for, and can certainly be overruled by a nice smile or a friendly
manner or a shared interest or many other things.  Most of the guys I've
gone out with in the last few years, maybe all, weren't physically stronger
than I, and didn't work out on a regular basis; the same is frequently true
for my female friends and their boyfriends.  (I'm not sure whether women
in science are more into exercise than men in science, which might affect
things; interestingly, Trygve said something about this a few days ago,
but the sample size around here is way too small to draw any conclusions.)

On the other hand, someone who implied I should feel guilty for going to
the gym because I wasn't "developing my mind" enough would be out of the
question as a partner for me.  I'm irritable enough these days due to
an overdose of mind development, and I'd rather develop my body and certain
personality traits (persistence, discipline, calmness) for a few
hours a week than spend that time reading a few extra books.  I really 
doubt that this lifestyle difference detracts from my intelligence or 
knowledge or personality enough to drive anyone away who would like me
if I didn't exercise.

>>] If athletes are better physically, and just as good mentally, as
>>] "nerds," it certainly sounds like they're better over all.

>>On average, there is such a trend; as far as individuals go, you can
>>make no such assumption.  

>Only if you're talking about logic.  You're overlooking a more common
>human quality called "prejudice."  Once someone has decided that's
>true, on average, he (or she) is likely to start looking for preferentially
>for athletes.  

Well, that's probably true.  I just don't think it's an overwhelming bias
on most people's parts, though.  I look preferentially for lots of things
but don't require all of them, just a reasonable overlap and a good
match of personality.  I think most people operate the same way.  Big
deal.  

I know a lot of women who wouldn't want to put up with intolerance or
obsessiveness, but very few who care much about whether their partners
exercise or not, as long as they're basically healthy (and a lot of them
don't pay much attention to that either).  I find it hard to picture anyone
turning down any of these women as friends or girlfriends on the grounds
that their minds weren't sufficiently developed.  But you probably wouldn't
like most of them; they go to the gym and have fun there.

---Julie
-- 
| "Come here, I want to show you something," he murmured...  "This is     |
| our baby; I had it yesterday," he said.  "My," I said hoarsely, "you're |
| full of surprises," and fell forward into his arms, arms, arms.         |
|             --- from "Sylvia", by Nicole Hollander                      |
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