From: jte@beefheart.cc.columbia.edu (Jeff Eldredge)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Trying to Assess RTF (was Re: Return To Forever)....a bit LONG
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:35:44 GMT
Reply-To: jte@beefheart.cc.columbia.edu
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Nov11.221401.379@mlb.semi.harris.com>  
jphillip@comanche.ess.harris.com (John Phillips) writes:
> 
> In article <Bx4wM6.4yn@rice.edu> sami@owlnet.rice.edu (Stephen Andrew  
Mills) writes:
> >Can someone give their opinion of Return To Forever's Romantic Warrior?
> >How does it compare with other fusion, such as the Mahavishnu Orchestra
> >or Miles?
> >
 
> >Personally I hate it. I never liked very much of RTF stuff. It always  
was too much
> >showing off and quick runs. The improvisations are also too controlled  
by the music

I completely know what you mean, although I guess part of RTF's signature  
was the fact that some of the latter quick runs that you mention were  
compositionally derived and not just solos.  If they didn't get totally  
out of hand, as in later years, then the end-product could be balanced  
enough yet still exhilirating at moments.

Nevertheless, I would say that history shines quite a bit more brightly on  
those first three Mahavishnu albums and the great ones (two many to list)  
by Weather Report than any of the RTF catalog.  

Nonetheless, if you want to check out the good stuff by RTF, check out:

1.  The first album -- it's somewhat acoustic, though it has Chick on  
electric piano.  It's very spacey and it cooks.  They really jam well.   
Flora Purim is in fine voice.

2.  Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy -- no Al Dimeola!!!  Bill Connors wails  
without being obnoxiously technical for technical's sake.  Still no  
synthesizers...plenty of good jamming.  Yeah, it's flashy at times, but  
it's more improvisationally based than the later Mickey Mouse stuff.  

3.  Where Have I Known You Before -- Al's first album with the band.  For  
some reason, he didn't feel obligated to play 64th notes!!!  The  
compositions are really fine.  I think Al listened to the previous album  
(Hymn) and played more like Connors (wailing sustained notes, lots of  
expression, something lacking from most of Al's work).

4.  No Mystery -- moving into the trite zone, but there are some excellent  
moments.  Still pretty funky.

Romantic Warrior was something I loved hearing....as a 16-year old.  Now I  
couldn't bear to put it on the turntable, unless I was up for a bunch of  
laughs.  I know plenty of people who DO enjoy this stuff, but it's not for  
me.  Too trite.  Too pseudo-programmatic.  Too flashy.  Too  gimmicky.   
Yuck.    

> I agree that the Stanley tunes are the best. As far as the quick runs,  
what else

I don't personally think that it had as much to do with who wrote what  
tune, because all of them had excellent (artful) writing chops (as  
witnessed on some of the above albums).  It's just that the whole  
technique thing got WAY out of hand.  And the writing just became so  
ridiculous....like merry-go-round music for technically obsessed  
individuals.  

On a related note, I would highly recommend listening to the Lenny White  
album Venusian Summer, if it's still available (it was released on  
Nemperor probably 17 years ago).  It was a funk tour-de-force, with Doug  
Rauch, David Sancious, Peter Robinson, Ray Gomez, etc.  Patrick Gleeson  
balanced it off nicely with some shimmering electronic realizations.   
Yeah, it's a bit dated, but it still rocks.  Guest appearances by Tom  
Harrell, Hubert Laws, Jimmy Smith, and Larry Young.

Hey, even Al Dimeola's first solo album (Land of the Midnight Sun) is  
pretty cool.

Stanley Clarke's (early...on Nemperor) output has some nice moments, but  
it is often flawed by sappy vocals and lyrics.  But fun, if want a laugh  
or two.  School Days is actually pretty strong throughout.  The album  
Stanley Clarke has excellent playing by Bill Connors, Jan Hammer, and Tony  
Williams (but watch out for the strings!!!!).  Journey to Love features a  
lot of nice George Duke playing.  And there's a beautiful acoustic setting  
for Chick, Stanley, and Al.  

None of this is by any means my bread-and-butter of listening now.  But I  
still think there's a reasonable amount of stuff to go back and listen to.

/jte