From: steiny@steiny.com (Don Steiny)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: relocation
Date: 17 Nov 92 07:07:41 GMT
Organization: Don Steiny Software

mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:

>In the referenced article, steiny@steiny.com (Don Steiny) writes:
>>mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
>>


>>	OK Chris, I won't ignore you.    Now, don't get me wrong, I never
>>voted for a Republican in my life and I am not defending Bush.   However,
>>I think that calling him a facist is ignorant.   

>Well, pusuing policies that have dumped thousands of people
>out of work (as Bush has done) isn't exactly humanitarian, is it?

	Which policies are those?   There are more people of working
age per 100 people working now than ever before in history.  The only
policy I know of that is throwing people out of work is reducing the
defense budget.   

>The Willie Horton ads definitely had racist undertones.  

	Hold that thought.   In a few paragraphs you are going to claim
that the reason people voted Bush out is because they opposed his racism.
Recall that the ad did work.

> The environment and educational system have been raped and neglected 
>under Bush.  

	According to the October issue of Scientific American the amount
of money spent on education increased from about 4% of GDP to about 6%
of GDP during the Reagan/Bush years.   

>The Republican party platform with it's anti-gay
>message had some real fascist sentiments as well.  

	Hmm, that must mean that Muslums are fascists.   And the Zoroasterans
--before 500BC they wrote some very anti-gay stuff.   Early fascists.

>>	It is not 100% clear that one course of action is better or worse 
>>in the long run.   At least not at the time.   Later with the hindsight
>>of history we may be able to tell.
>I think it's pretty obvious that when people are attacking
>minorities, favoring the rich, and are anti-environment (as Bush as done)
>that they are bad news.  Apparently most Americans agree with me,
>becuase they voted the bozo out of office.

	I doubt that the same people who voted for him because of the 
Willie Horton ad suddenly stopped being afraid and saw the light.   Likewise 
I have never seen any analysis that indicated that the reason people 
voted Bush out was because of his evironmental stance.    Besides, in a
few paragraphs you are going to accuse your fellow citizens of being 
fascists.   These fascists of yours are a confusing lot, voting against
their own kind.

>Why not try reading something more interesting like the Nation or
>the Progressive or even the Guardian?

	The opinions of East Coast pundits are only of limited interest to me.
I read them occasionally.

>>	For example, there is no question that communism collapsed.    The
>>question to me is, "how much did Reagan's policies have to do with it?"  
>>"Foreign Affairs" the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations (often
>>accussed by the right as being a communist run world government in and of
>>itself) has had articles saying that they did, including the Iraq war.  
>>The Russians themselves also feel that Star Wars was instrumental in 
>>bringing the arms race to an end.    

>But is the result any better?  World economic slump. An 
>unstable former Soviet block, huge budget deficits.  I'm glad
>the Soviet Union collapsed. I despised it as much as anybody.
>I believe they would have collapsed anyway, but by accerlating
>the arms race, we chocked up huge budget deficts and pretty
>much slit the throat of the economy.  Just ask Ross Perot.

	Such an intelligent and important man as the great Ross Perot has
much better things to do than give an audience to me.    However, economists
do not agree that the debt is as terrible as it is made out to be.   One
point is that after WWII the debt as a percentage of GDB was about 3 times
what it is now and we had a terrific boom and paid it all off.    It looks
like we won the cold war for 1/3 the cost of WWII.    

>>
>>	Facism was a popular movement.    It was not so much a top-down 
>>approach, but rather bottom up.   People were in a recession there was
>>a bad economy, they blamed their problems on other races and nationalities.
>Yeah, sort of like what's happening right now.

	Happening to whom?  Do you mean those same people that voted out Bush, 
the environmentally sensitive, anti-racist forces?

>>	By blaming so much on Reagan and Bush, you sound like a facist your-
self. Facism was a simple solution that reduced complex issues to simple
>>slogans.
>Sorry, but I think you just jumped over the edge.  You've made
>a big jump from a somewhat logical argument into false name
>calling.

	What I am saying about you is that I do not think that you have
I do not think you actually have much idea what fascism is.   I think that
it is a word you heard, that you know vaugely what it means, and that you
use it as a perjoritive.     One aspect of fascism and Nazism that is
the most fascinating to me is not the actually political statements, but
the way people just went along with it.   Similar behavior is quite common.
One thing that characterizes it is the use of simple slogans to explain
complex problems.   Since you use the word in such an unusual way, it
seems to me that you are just repeating the word because you think it is
"right" to do so without really understanding what the word means or 
when it is appropriate to use.

>>	I am more afraid that YOU will want to round people up and gas them
>>that that Bush or Reagan will.
>What planet are you from?  You're paranoid.  

	Perhaps, but at least I am not humor impaired.

>Oh, so if I attack the right, then I must be crazy.  Grow up!!

	Why attack anyone?   What is this "right" anyway?   Do you see
the world as divided into "left" and "right" that is at war?

-don
-- 
Don Steiny
Don Steiny Software
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
(408) 425-0382
Newsgroups: alt.california