HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: FYI - Politics in NI
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:36:05 GMT

From article <CC.92Sep3123403@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk>, by cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke):
> In article <1992Sep2.161310.6476@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
> 
>    I do not want to sound like a pedant on this point (but I am going to
>    nevertheless), but the settlers of which you speak were mostly Scots,
>    and if the point is push it can be argued that originally they can from
>    Irland in the 500s(?), therefore Irish Gaelic is part of their
>    inheritance also (even though it was a little further back).
> 
> The peoples of Scotland variously spoke Norse, Gaelic, Inglis (later Scots),
> and Welsh.  I would think that most of the Scottish settlers spoke Scots when
> they moved to Ulster, though I don't know for sure.
> --
> 	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

I agree, but, I was being pedantic and was trying to imply that probably
most settlers had a distant relative who spoke Irish gaelic, and
therefore Irish gaelic was a part of their heritage also, even though
very remotely.

															GW

> 
>
From: nyu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: "Mid-morning the crook" legacy in "porno.dcs.glasgow.ac.uk."
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:08:16 GMT
Organization: New York University


I'll tend to believe the other netters in that Serdar Argic is actually
Hasan Mutlu. You have an amazing skill at revisionism. Ahh, it was the
Armenians who were genocidal in WWI. And they killed millions of Turks.
Not million but millions. Ahh.
Serdar/Hasan, you are a loon. This group deserves you. Keep taking up
bandwidth. If you left here, loons like you and Milan would just
xerox pamphlets at your real jobs and then leave them in peoples 
mailboxes at night, creating real pollution instead of just the
electronic pollution which is your legacy. One thing. You certainly
are a busy little loon.
 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8381 soc.culture.greek:8269 soc.culture.europe:7960 talk.politics.misc:43034 talk.politics.theory:3956 soc.culture.bulgaria:1270 soc.culture.turkish:9547
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: "Greek Cypriot terrorism is relentless," writes...
Date: 30 Aug 92 20:52:06 GMT





<BtpIv2.5I3@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )

> No, he is an old one. But, he never reads any replies. He just posts every
> single thing against Greece that he can find.

Oh, don't I wish.

 Peter Moorhead reporting from the village of Skyloura, Cyprus. 
 Date : 1 January, 1964. 

 IL GIARNO (Italy)
 
 THEY ARE TURK-HUNTING, THEY WANT TO EXTERMINATE THEM.

 Discussions start in London; in Cyprus terror continues. Right now we
 are witnessing the exodus of Turks from the villages. Thousands of people
 abandoning homes, land, herds; Greek Cypriot terrorism is relentless. This 
 time, the rhetoric of the Hellenes and the bust of Plato do not suffice to 
 cover up barbaric and ferocious behaviors.

 Article by Giorgo Bocca, Correspondent of Il Giorno
 Date: 14 January 1964

 DAILY HERALD (London)

 AN APPALLING SIGHT

And when I came across the Turkish homes they were an appalling sight.
Apart from the walls, they just did not exist. I doubt if a napalm bomb
attack could have created more devastation. I counted 40 blackened brick
and concrete shells that had once been homes. Each house had been deliberately
fired by petrol. Under red tile roofs which had caved in, I found a twisted
mass of bed springs, children's conts and cribs, and ankle deep grey
ashes of what had once been chairs, tables and wardrobes.

In the neighbouring village of Ayios Vassilios, a mile away, I counted 16 
wrecked and burned out homes. They were all Turkish Cypriot homes. From
this village more than 100 Turkish Cypriots had also vanished.In neither village
did I find a scrap of damage to any Greek Cypriot house.

Date: 1 January, 1964.

 DAILY TELEGRAPH (London)
 
 GRAVES OF 12 SHOT TURKISH CYPRIOTS FOUND IN CYPRUS VILLAGE

 Silent crowds gathered tonight outside the Red Crescent hospital in the
 Turkish Sector of Nicosia, as the bodies of 9 Turkish Cypriots found
 crudely buried outside the village of Ayios Vassilios, 13 miles away, were
 brought to the hospital under the escort of the Parachute Regiment. Three 
 more bodies, including one of a woman, were discovered nearby but could
 not be removed. Turkish Cypriots guarded by paratroops are still trying to 
 locate the bodies of 20 more believed to have been buried on the same site.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.turkish
From: errol@leland.Stanford.EDU (errol craig)
Subject: Re: THE NEW BULLY OF THE BALKANS
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 15:54:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.070138.20948@sunbim.be> sk@sunbim.be () writes:

>	[text deleted]..
>
>......Glancing at the print-out on a computerised bus-ticket,
>I found, in the space where you might expect "Have a nice
>trip", the statement, "Macedonia was and shall be Greek".
>Never outside the communist block have I had such a sense of
>an all-pervading and unanimous campaign, in which all levels
>of public life are mobilised to whip up popular feeling. If


How about Argentina & the Falklans?
Entering Argentina from Chile I saw a huge billboard with the words
"Las Malvinas son Argentinos".  Leaving, we saw another one.

Actually I would be interested in hearing the argument w/ regard to
the recognition of "Macedonia" from the Greek point of view.  If
someone would send me a short explanation I'd appreciate it.

Errol
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.turkish
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: THE NEW BULLY OF THE BALKANS [ Part 3 from 4 ]
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 04:13:23 GMT

han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu) writes:

><BtLy3o.n42@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
>ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )

>>>  Noel Malcolm on how Greece's profound neurosis about its own
>>>identity is the biggest single impediment to any sensible EEC
>>>policy in the region

>> Tsk, Tsk, Tsk!! Profound neurosis of Greeks about their own identity?

>Then we noticed the 'tamtam.' There's a little pronged fork sticking up 
>at the end of his abdomen.

 Very typical Master Untrue Totally Lying Unit(s) answer.  When he has
 nothing to say, he replies with an offense.

>But day to day, socially, economically, mentally, how European
>are you?

 About 1,000,000,000,000,000 more European than Turks who want to be
 a part of a unified Europe.

>Your governments sponsor, feed and shelter terrorists against
>a neighboring state, but France does the same. 

 I guess, this is because France is a terrorist, non-European state.
 France, actually, should take some democracy lessons from Turkey...

>even regarding soccer since you have 
>not been able to comply with the general specifications of the 
>international organizations.

 Yep, I wouldn't believe it, unless see it with my eyes. Even soccer
 can be used for propaganda against Greece!!!

 The Master Untrue Totally Lying Unit(s) has lost the control
 of his propaganda!!!


>Hasan B-) Mutlu



-- 
---> Panos Tamamidis
     University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8225 soc.culture.greek:7975
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: EDUCATION SPECIAL: MAP OF THE WORLD
Date: 23 Aug 92 20:42:59 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

Rizos Sakellariou (rsakella@p4.cs.man.ac.uk) writes:
>Your example is completely unsuccessful. There are no analogies with
>the case of Macedonia. The Grand Duchy is much greater than the Belgian
>province and is the heart of what is known as Luxembourgh.

On my map, the two area are about equal in size, but it looks
to me that the Belgian province is somewhat greater.

As for where the heart is, we could compare to Azerbaijan (as I
understand, the origin of Azerbaijan as an geographical entity is
rather to find in Iranian province than in the republic of Azerbaijan)
or to Benin or Moldova.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Life is wonderful when the wonderlife is full
From: krizaj@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: A question: Aid for Bosnians
Date: 31 Aug 92 04:02:24 GMT
Organization: NYU Medical Center, New York, NY 10016, USA

I would like to extend a question posted earlier (about relief efforts
for Croatia) to Bosnia and its refugees. What relief organization(s)
would you recommend; please add their adresses, etc.

                                  Thanks,  
                                              David
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8366 soc.culture.greek:8247
From: buis@buengc.bu.edu (Biomed Dept I.S.L.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Macedonia: History and Reality
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:33:55 GMT
Reply-To: buis@buengc.bu.edu (Lou Buis)
Followup-To: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

>On the Macedonian Matter:
>
>          This letter is dedicated to the Freedom Fighters
>                of Macedonia E V E R Y W H E R E
>
> 
>       MACEDONIA: HISTORY AND REALITY
>
>
>        WHO WERE THE ANCIENT MACEDONIANS?
>
>   The Macedonians originally came from India. Their language
> derived from Sanscrit. They were called Macedonians under
> Alexander the Great. Before this period, the Macedonians were
> cally Myceneans, and before that - Trojans (of whom spoke the
> Trojan ie. Macedonian poet Homer in his "Iliad", and before
> that - Titans. The land they lived in was called "Ludia". 

	Gligor, if you continue to promote these lunatic ideas,
	and if someone, out of ignorance, adopts them in the Government
	in Skopie, the EC and UN will have every single right to impose 
	the ancient name you mentioned, on the former Socialist Republic 
	of Macedonia!

			 REPUBLIC OF LUDIA !

	You can guess how will be the people of that country called.



>    So where did the Macedonians celebrate their freedom? In
> Byzantine, ofcouse! Byzantine was not a Greek but a Macedonian
> Emperor. Consider the following points:
>
> 1. Virtually none of the Byzantine Emperors were Greek.
>   Justinian, the man who wrote the laws (Corpus Juris Civilius)
>   which is the basic foundation of western law - is a native of
>   the village Bardovic, Skopje! 


	If you continue like this, you will realy celebrate your
	freedom in the native village of Justinian - BARDOVCI !



> Published in Australian Macedonian Herald, 19th August 1992.
>
>   If any one has a question regarding Macedonian history
> (ancient and modern) or cultural, please forward your letters to:

	I doubt that question regarding Macedonian history will be 
	sent to the following address for a long time. Maybe an
	ambulance, but letter - no.

> Gligor Apoleski
> Macquarie Uni, Macedonian Society (M.U.M.S.)
> Box 76, Level 1
> Student Council Union BUilding
> Macquarie University 2109
> Sydney N.S.W.



	You should seriously consider submitting this "piece of art"
	as a Grant proposal to the Greek Foreign Office, for the project: 

	"Preventing the use of name "Macedonia" by the Republic of Skopje due 
	to the halucinatory simptoms and mental disorder of their historians".


	Who said that the human stupidity is finite? 

		Baloni!

			Lou





P.S. The meaning of "LUD" in most Slavic languages is "CRAZY".

P.P.S. "Bardovci" is the biggest mental hospital near Skopie.

P.P.P.S. If I were a promoter of the Greek point of view in the argument 
	 over Macedonia, I would, at least, send a thank-you note to 
	 this guy. 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Macedonia: History and Reality
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:06:22 GMT

buis@buengc.bu.edu (Biomed Dept I.S.L.) writes:


>	Oh, no, my goodness !!!
>	
>	This is the most lunatic fabrication I have read in my life. Period.

>	It is sad that this can be "Reality" for some, people, but definitely 
>	doesn't have to anything with "history".

>	
>	Regrets,

>		Lou




>	P.S. Actualy, I would suggest to the Greek Foreign Office to provide 
>	a financial support for the Macedonian groups and newspapers in 
>	Australia that have similar views to the one expressed above. 
> 	I cannot think of a better exposure of the Macedonian side. 
>		
 
  Well, how the heck Greeks should know how many people believe those things?
  Is it 1% of their population, 10%, 40%, how many?

  One thing I know well: similar claims have been made for the past 50 years.
  You know, journalists aren't stupid.  When Greeks read on the newspapers
  such things they have to react the way they do now.

  And you know something, it was two-three days ago when Mr. Sasa Konecni
  posted several articles about the supposed "neurosis of Greeks"...


-- 
---> Panos Tamamidis
     University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch)
Subject: Time to Get Rid of the Nation-State? (was:  Re: THE NEW BULLY OF THE BALKANS [ Part 4 from 4 ])
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:01:13 GMT
Organization: mydog in exile

When I read of the innumerable small ethnic groups killing each
other in the Balkans, it becomes clear to me that the idea of the
nation-state, which appeared so attractive to liberals in the
early 20th Century, has simply failed.  It no longer appears to
be anything but an excuse for people to kill one another, and
for what?  So they can be oppressed by thugs who speak their own
language instead of thugs who speak some other language.

As it appears that we are not ready for anarchy yet, and must
have some form of government, how about utilizing the United
Nations to take over some of the work? Surely Bosnia, Somalia,
Afghanistan and Cambodia would be better off under a neutral 
U.N. administration of military and police functions than they
are subjected to competing warlords and religious fanatics.

I don't agree, by the way, with the common theory that a
world government would be necessarily tyrannical.  The clever
fellows who set up the U.S. Constitution found a solution in
having different parts of the government impede each other in
a structured way.  Surely the same principles can be applied
on a larger scale.
-- 
 )*(    Gordon Fitch    )*(    gcf@panix.com    )*(
( 1238 Blg. Grn. Sta.,  NY NY 10274 * 718.273.5556 )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek
From: sk@groo.sunbim.be (Sasa Konecni)
Subject: The New Greek Phobia (phobos): [ Part 2 from 5 ]
Reply-To: sk@sunbim.be ()
Organization: BIM Everberg Belgium
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 07:01:33 GMT


The New Greek Phobia (phobos) 
----------------------------
(Part 2 from5 )


Alexander The Great

The Greek ideology is busy printing luxurious leaflets
on the topic "falsification of the historical truth",
in which, with a careful selection of
historical facts, each time they want to prove two
things - that Alexander The Great was a Greek and that
the Macedonian Nation was "Tito's invention", and as
well the language. The first statement ( according to
non-greek historical literature ) is at the least not
founded, and the second one is misusing the fact that
one nation had the chance for the first time to be
politically constituted after the Second World War.
Even if the both statement are true, what does it have
to do with the present efforts to avoid
destabilization of the Balkan region.


Territorial pretensions

The territorial claims of the northern neighbours "The
Skopjans" the greek side is supporting with maps of
united Macedonia which are mostly ilegally distributed by the
macedonian emigration, but also with some statements
of the leaders of VMRO, a strong nationalistic party.
The guarantees provided by the official 
statute of Macedonia which last winter satisfied the
EC commission and the statements of the macedonian
president Gligorov in which the Macedonian state is
demanting any antic claims are not enough. Posters,
writings on shopping bags, stamps on every possible
paper - even on electricity bills - are trying to prove
that "Macedonia is Greek".

Behind the fierce fight "about a national matter" most
probably there is no intention to enlarge the greek part
of Macedonia, the simple reason being the fact that
the whole operation is executed with defensive
politics which with the inherited fear from all the
previous failures extremely emotinaly - and
completely counter-productive - with methods from the
past tries to keep what it has, because before all Greece
feels threatened. The roots of this feeling are very
deep and far away - from the death of Alexander the
Great, three c. BC, until the liberation from the
Turks in 1821, we can not speak of a united greek
land, on the territory which includes present Greece.


-------To be continoued-------

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Sasa Konecni                     e-mail: sk@sunbim.be           =
= BIM   sa/nv                      tel:    +32 (2) 759.59.25      =
= Research & Development           fax:    +32 (2) 759.47.95      =
= Kwikstraat 4,   B-3078 Everberg,    Belgium                     =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: "Greek Cypriot terrorism is relentless," writes...
Followup-To: alt.dev.null
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:35:17 GMT

Hello.  Are you by any chance related to Mutlu?
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8327 soc.culture.greek:8203 soc.culture.europe:7900 talk.politics.misc:42848 eunet.politics:1148
From: rsakella@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.misc,eunet.politics
Subject: Media and politics (was Re: 'Greece Is Black Sheep Of EC')
Date: 29 Aug 92 17:51:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: p4.rsakella.715110664
Followup-To: soc.culture.yugoslavia

cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:

>>>>  "Greece is Black Sheep of EC," New York Times Says
>>All reasons behind this and other Greece(orthodox) bashing in media started 
>>recently are because Greece oppose millitary intervention in Bosnia.

Hmm, very interesting...
I don't know whether your reasoning is true or not, but it appears to me
that very often western media are used in order to exercise pressure on 
countries and to justify already taken political decisions. Personally, 
I find difficult to understand how the media discover so many things to
discredit a nation (sometimes characterising it as suffering from paranoia), 
exactly at the same time that its government has a different opinion... 
It seems more than a coincidence, doesn't it?

--rizos
From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Macedonia: History and Reality
Date: 1 Sep 92 11:43:22 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <95019@bu.edu> buis@buengc.bu.edu (Lou Buis) writes:

[deleted]

>	Who said that the human stupidity is finite? 

Never heard that. On the other hand, it was Albert Einstein who said:

"There  are two thing infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And
I am not sure about the former."

>			Lou

Luben
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Wishful thinking is unproductive, only facts count, "tamtam."
Date: 30 Aug 92 20:52:42 GMT





<BtpJ3M.5Mr@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )

> Perhaps the phobia of Mr. Konecni is that he is affraid to defend, or to
> answer the questions raised by people answering his postings.
> Yep, he is another coward ...

And you live with an illusion. This is the same mentality which 
allows Greeks to rationalize that Cyprus is a Greek Island. No 
history book shows that it ever was. It belonged to the Ottoman 
Turks 'lock, stock and barrel' for a period of well over 300 years.

In fact, prior to the Turks' acquisition of it, following
bloody naval battles with the Venetians in 1570 AD, the
island of Cyprus belonged, invariably, to several nations:
The Assyrians, the Sumerians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians,
the Ottoman Turks, of course in that order, owned it as 
their territory. But, it has never been the possession
of the government of Greece - not even for one day -
in the history of the world. Moreover, Cyprus is located 
1500 miles from the Greek mainland, but only 40 miles from 
Turkiye's southern coastline.

Saddam Hussein claims that Kuwait was once Iraqi territory 
and the Greek Cypriot government and the Greek governments 
think that Cyprus also was once part of the Greek hegemony.

Those people involved in this grandiose hallucination
should wake up from their sweet daydreams and confront 
reality. Wishful thinking is unproductive, only facts count.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)


Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8232 soc.culture.greek:7983 soc.culture.bulgaria:1204
From: mirsip@risky.ecs.umass.edu (Ivan Popstefanija)
Subject: Re: Time to Get Rid of the Nation-State? (was:  Re: THE NEW BULLY OF THE BALKANS [ Part 4 from 4 ])
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:29:48 GMT

Gordon Fitch writes:

>When I read of the innumerable small ethnic groups killing each
>other in the Balkans, it becomes clear to me that the idea of the
>nation-state, which appeared so attractive to liberals in the
>early 20th Century, has simply failed.  It no longer appears to
>be anything but an excuse for people to kill one another, and
>for what?  So they can be oppressed by thugs who speak their own
>language instead of thugs who speak some other language.
>

   Excellent point with which I very much agree, but how you go 
about showing that to the majority of people on the Balkans?
Or, can you do anything else but let them hurt each other and 
mostly themselves?

  A state with garanteed individual rights  and  NOT garanteed rights
for nations is, IMO, solution for multi ethnic society, but that is not
the way the Serbs, Croats or Slovenians see it. What can one do?  

>-- 
> )*(    Gordon Fitch    )*(    gcf@panix.com    )*(
>( 1238 Blg. Grn. Sta.,  NY NY 10274 * 718.273.5556 )

 Ivan Popstefanija 

Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8464 soc.culture.greek:8414 soc.culture.europe:8077 talk.politics.misc:43530 talk.politics.theory:4014 soc.culture.bulgaria:1334 soc.culture.turkish:9655