HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Eckersley NOT better than Fingers
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 08:24:08 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.221450.567@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Navarra) writes:
>In article <12223@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Hairless Primate Huckabay) writes:

>>>4)Fingers has the all-time record for saves. (341)   Eckersley had 188 at
>>>the end of 1991.

>>Yep.  And Eckersley spent more than half his career as a starting pitcher.
>>If Eck had started as a reliever, how do you think the numbers would stack up?

>	Um, if Eckersley started off as a relief pitcher he may very well
>not be in baseball today! He SUCKED (with a capital S) as a starting
>pitcher for most of those years. If he pitched anything like that as a 

Where do you come up with these things?  He sucked for 1 year (83).

Eckersley's starting career:
75 Cleveland: 	13-7  2.60  2 Sv
76 		13-12 3.44  1 Sv (200 K in 199 innings)
77		14-13 3.53
78 Boston	20-8  2.99
79		17-10 2.99
80		12-14 4.27
81		9-8   4.27
82		13-13 3.73
83		9-13  5.61  Ouch.  Injury?  Only 28 starts, 176 innings.
84 Bos/Cubs	14-12 3.60
85 Chicago Cubs 11-7  3.08
86		6-11  4.57

Total, starter:	151-128 3.67  3 Sv.  Plus a no-hitter.  In Fenway & Wrigley.

87 Oakland	6-8   3.03  16 Sv
88		4-2   2.35  45 Sv  
89		4-0   1.56  33 Sv  55-3 k/bb
90		4-2   0.61  48 Sv  73-4 k/bb 
91		5-4   2.96  43 Sv

That makes him: 23-16 2.23  185 Sv as a reliever, in 4.5 years.

His peak,88-91:	17-8  1.90  169 Sv in 4 years.

>reliever, he would soon be a middle reliever. And how many shitty middle-
>relievers stick around in baseball after 10+  years? 

>	Eck had the advantage of a second chance -- something many players
>don't get. Give Rollie a break, he was great, is great and ever shall be great.

Nobody, including the Hairless Primate, is arguing that Rollie wasn't
great.  (*Is* great?  He couldn't even get out Manny Lee at his age.)  Just
that the Eck is the best reliever ever over the last 4 years.

>navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu		

-- 
David M. Nieporent              |ALEast 92: 1.Baltimore 2.Boston 3.Toronto
niepornt@phoenix.princeton.edu  |4. Detroit 5.Milwaukee 6.NY 8.Cleveland
"Baseball stathead, and card-carrying member of the ACLU.  And proud of it."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: burger@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schlossberg)
Subject: A couple of things...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 05:22:05 GMT

Hi all.  There were a couple of things on my mind, so I figured I would share
them with you all to see what anyone had to say.

1) A friend and me were talking and we were wondering if anyone had ever 
gotten three outs batting/baserunning in one inning.  This would not include
grouding into a DP.  My friend insisted that this would be impossible.  I think
that a team could do it if it scored a bunch of runs.  In a related question,
what's the most runs ever scored in one inning? (This isn't a trivia question.
I don't know the answer)

2) I read in this group last year (or sometime long ago) that there was a 
formula by Bill James or STATS or someone that allowed the prediction of a
teams W/L percentage based on number of runs scored and number of runs given 
up.  I don't remember the formula, but it involved squaring something and
some division.  If I remember correctly, this was extremely accurate.  Could
someone please enlighten me.

Thanks a bunch,

Scott Schlossberg
buregr@leland.stanford.edu
-- 
Scott Schlossberg takes his leave of you. |"I could never be a woman.  All I'd
Drop a line at burger@leland.stanford.edu | ever do is sit around and play with
The Texas Rangers will dethrone the Twins!| my breasts all day."
The New York Giants will be back in 1992!!| --Steve Martin in L.A. Story
From: dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: MATT YOUNG TOSSES NO-HITTER, LOSES 2-1
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:11:34 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <DPASSAGE.92Apr13181626@eden.Berkeley.EDU> dpassage@eden.Berkeley.EDU (David Paschich) writes:

>   So?  You and I know better.  "Just say 'yes'".
>
>But wait a sec, Dave.  I thought you didn't believe in errors.  Change
>Luis Rivera's bad throw from an error to an infield hit, and no
>hitter no longer.

Good point, but you misunderstand me.  I don't believe in errors in terms
of evaluating how good a given player is.  But no-hitters aren't about 
evaluating players; they're about Moments To Remember.  Just as Bill Mazeroski
was not a good hitter, and not a power hitter, but nevertheless has an
immortal home run, there's no reason not to remember a guy who pitched a 
game in which nobody put a ball in play that "earned" a base.  Sure, that's
a subjective judgement, but all nostalgia is subjective.

As I've said before, I try not to confuse what's enjoyable about *watching*
baseball from what's interesting about studying it.  There's some interaction,
since I can't help but notice when Frank Thomas or Wade Boggs as a fantastic
at bat that ends in a conceded walk, or noticing that Clemens pitched better
than Young, but that doesn't take away the novelty value of the no-no, or 
whatever.

-- 
          David M. Tate            |"The man who hath no music in himself
     dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu       | Nor is not moved by concord of sweet sound
  A poem should be dumb, / As old  | Is fit for treason, stratagems, and spoils
 medallions to the thumb.-MacLeish | 	Shakespeare, "Merchant of Venice", A.V
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Phillies Injury Report
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:10:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr9.173822.26140@oz.plymouth.edu>, s_bean@oz.plymouth.edu (Shaun P. Bean) writes:
> In article <QYHHBLSH@cc.swarthmore.edu> jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand) writes:
> 
> >> Ruben Amaro Jr. is playing for Lenny tonight in center, leading off. In
> >> his first at bat he was hit by a pitch (this is not lie) just barely
> >> above his knee. He scored, then hit a double and scored, hit another double
> >> and scored, and hit a HR, and it's only the 6th inning. Oh, the home plate
> >> umpire was hit by a pitch ON THE FOREARM and is wearing some sort of
> >> ice-pack or pad...
> >
> >	Lenny who? :) Amaro finished 3 for 4 with 3 RBIs, getting on base
> >all 5 times he was up. (Hit by pitch and fielder's choice as well.) No one
> >in their right mind thinks he's ever going to replace Dykstra permanently.
> >However the next couple of weeks could be interesting. If Amaro continues to
> >do well, Wes Chamberlain should get very nervous. Or even Dale Murphy. I
> >personally expect to see Amaro get a lot of playing time this year. (Boy was
> >that Von Hayes trade a steal.)
> 
> If Murphy continues to falter do you think that Amaro could move to
> RF.  He must be good defensively to be in center, so RF could be cake
> after CF.  I hope he keeps playing as good as he started, and if he
> does then they won't be able to justify sitting him.
> 
> shaun

They're paying Murph too much to sit him. He's gonna have to get real bad
before they bench him. I was just talking about this very problem with
Jeff Hildebrand earlier today. Remember that Jordan will also be back soon
and the original plan was to have Kruk play a little RF to get Jordan in
the lineup. So you're going to have Chamberlain, Dykstra, Amaro Jr.,
Murphy and Jordan through Kruk all vying for three spots in the lineup
and all too good to sit. Barring further injury the Phillies are going to
be forced into a trade by June, IMHO. The problem will be what to trade
for...but by June they should know what fine tuning they need. I think
Dale Murphy will not be wearing a Phillies uniform at season's end...

Pete Clark Jr.
att!hos1cad!seth

PS Maybe that last bit is just wishful thinking, tho...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Least Valuable Players (career)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:48:24 GMT

In article <204707@unix.cis.pitt.edu> dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
>Nonsense.  Jerry Browne sits at home watching Oprah while Billy Ripken lives
>on?

Jerry Browne is stuck at home no more, though he's still not in the bigs.
The A's signed him to a minor league contract, so he's off to Tacoma.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 190lentz@wheeler.qal.berkeley.edu (Greg Lentz)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Blue Jays vs. Red Sox
Date: 7 Apr 92 04:05:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.rr726INN80o
Organization: University of California Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: wheeler.qal.berkeley.edu

>>Pena vs. Lee.  Does anyone compare unfavorably to Lee?

>I wish I could say..."yes someone does", but as far as I know only Cory
Snyder really makes Lee look good.  And now the Giants have him.

3 for 5 and robbed Sciossia of a home run in today's 8-1 victory over
the Dodgers.  Comeback Player of The Year?

Go Giants

Greg

 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kost@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Ken Kost)
Subject: Camden Yards-First Home Run
Organization: LMSC Santa Cruz
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 19:21:48 GMT

    Being a Baltimore Fan,I'd like to inform everyone that the first home run
hit at Camden Yards was Sorento of the Cleveland Indians in the second day of
the season! Can anyone tell me who got the first base hit at The Yard?
                                                 
P.S.-The score in the game was 4-0 Indians.
                                            KK(O's fan from way back!)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mattel@auto-trol.com (Matt Telles)
Subject: Re: I Told You Bonilla Was Worth the Money
Keywords: Seriously:  A Truly Different Mets' Team
Organization: Auto-trol
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:26:19 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.135124.26463@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> dick1@hera.uucp (25436-vaughn) writes:
>
>Well, yeah, Bobby Bo's debut last night was pretty spectacular
>(He's way ahead of both Ruth's and Maris' home run pace),
>but the larger point with the Mets in 1992 is that this is
>a team with a re-cast personality.

Time will tell, but last night's game was pretty good.

>
>Gone are (in order of importance):  Frank Cashen, Buddy Harrelson,
>Kevin McReynolds, Gregg Jefferies, Frank Viola.

Actually, Keith Miller is missing as well, and I would probably put him at the
worst loss...

>
>In their place are (again, in order of importance):  Al Harazin,
>Jeff Torborg, Bobby Bonilla, Bret Saberhagen, Eddie Murray and
>Willie Randolph.

Murray and Randolph will have to prove themselves to me, as ballplayers.  The
rest are just great acquisitions.

>A perfect example is that Torborg got very visibly in Vince Coleman's
>face after a lack of hustle cost him a base hit.  It was Harrelson's
>refusal to get in Coleman's face last spring over a similar incident
>that showed the Mets who wasn't in charge and which also set the tone
>for the hideous season that followed.

True.  However it did bother me that they needed to bunt Coleman over in the
tenth.  Not that it mattered, of course.

>Gonna be fun to watch.  As always.

That's for sure.

Matt
-- 
==============================================================================
Matt Telles 	                 mattel@auto-trol.COM
                                 {...}ncar!ico!auto-trol!mattel
Auto-trol Technology 12500 N Washington Denver, CO 80241-2404 (303)252-2874
From: colaluca@cs.utexas.edu (Mark Colaluca)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Bobby Valentine uses Al Newman to leadoff!
Date: 8 Apr 1992 13:30:26 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: saltillo.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Apr8.181455.24981@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>I didn't see the Opening Day box score from that Seattle/Texas game, since it
>was late, until today, and boy, was I surprised to see Al Newman as the
>*leadoff* hitter.  Brian Downing, the regular leadoff man last year, batted
>5th.  If he had started and led Jeff Huson off, I could understand it, but
>Al "I can't hit *or* walk" Newman leading off?

It stemmed from the fact that Brian Downing went to Bobby Valentine and 
*requested* not to be hit leadoff.  He told Bobby V. (according to the
Rangers announcers, Steve Busby and Jim Sundberg) that he would be more
productive for the team if he didn't hit leadoff.  Busby also mentions
that Franco will be the leadoff when healthy, though I fail to
see how bum knees help your team in a leadoff role...

Newman was 0 for 3 with 1 walk Monday nite, but was 2 for 3 with a double
in the 4-0 win.  He did just fine :)

Go Rangers!

-- 
|  Mark Colaluca	Internet:   colaluca@cs.utexas.edu |
|  			Compuserve: 72230,1221 AOL: MC99   |
|        "A Pittsburgh native, and proud of it. "          | 
|----------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jac@cis.ohio-state.edu (Jim Clausing)
Subject: Re: What's a no-hitter?
Originator: jac@wogglebug.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: Ohio State Computer Science
	<1992Apr13.102202.835@gacvx2.gac.edu> <45117@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:36:22 GMT

In article <45117@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> rdale@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Robert Dale) writes:

>  I sympathize with everyone who says Matt Young should be
>  credited with a no-hitter, but for crying out loud his bad 
>  pitching (7 walks) lost the game!  He is credited with a loss,
[...]

Yes, but he does get credit for a complete game, so I think he should
be credited with the no-hitter.  As for the walks, back in (I believe)
the late '70s, a bunch of Cub pitchers got together and threw a 13
walk, 0 hit game (of course, they won, so that makes all the
difference, I guess).  TRIVIA Q: Anyone remember who started that one?
How about who finished it?

>
>  Rob
-- 
Jim Clausing					jac@cis.ohio-state.edu
CIS Dept.					(614)292-7038
Ohio State University
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nss3@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Noel Steere)
Subject: Re: "Bubbles and the Babe"
Keywords: BoSox, Yankees, Ruth, Montville
Reply-To: nss3@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:54:29 GMT

In article <SOLENSKY.92Apr6171443@animal.clearpoint.com> solensky@animal.clearpoint.com (Frank T. Solensky) writes:
>
>		Bubbles and the Babe
>
>	A shocking suppositional revelation from an ex-showgirl
>
>by Leigh Montville; "Sports Illustrated Classic" (c) 1991, Time, Inc. Magazine Co.
>

<story about how Babe Ruth *wasn't* sold to the Yankees, how JoeD and
Mantle helped the *BoSox* win championships, etc.>

So, it's finally come to this.  After almost a century of frustration
and anguish, some Red Sox fans, apparently in despair, have taken the
vaunted history of their superior rivals form New York and made it
their own. :-)

Didn't Hitchcock do something along these lines?


SCENE: The attic of the Frazee Motel, located somewhere in New
England.  We see what appears to be an old woman in a rocking chair.

"Harry!  Harry!  Come up here, you naughty child!  Bring me those
World Series rings right now, Harry!"

And all of New England stood by and watched, their silence ringing
approval.


BTW, you forgot to mention Bob Stanley striking out Mookie Wilson :-)

Noel Steere                  |Lookie, lookie!  It's my old .sig file!        
GM/Manager, New York Knights,|Ah, freedom of expression at last!
Internet Baseball League     |(Even if it's only four lines worth of it!)
nss3@midway.uchicago.edu     |WARNING: PROSECUTERS WILL BE VIOLATED
From: justus@cat4.cs.wisc.edu (Curtis Justus)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Pitching Strategies (was: Eck NOT better...)
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:51:09 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

It seem to me (I may be wrong) that when Fingers first became a reliever
was when the "closer" was first starting to gain popularity.  Not too
long before, the starters were left in for most of the games, thereby
giving them a lot of complete games (sorry, no stats on hand).

When Eckersly became a reliever, the idea of the closer was much different
than when Fingers first became one.  

I guess what I'm asking for is to find out how many appearances each
pitcher made as a reliever and how many innings they pitched per
appearance.  My guess would be that Fingers would have pitched more
innings per appearance just because of the ideaology of their respective
baseball era's.  Don't flame on me (someone will), I'm just trying to get
off of this "My guy is better... No he isn't, mine is... no, mine... etc".

Have fun,
cj
From: reynard@susie.cs.scarolina.edu (John Reynard)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: What's up with the Rangers?
Date: 12 Apr 92 02:39:17 GMT
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science


texdude@cs1.bradley.edu (Philip Allen) writes:

>Ok, the Season Opener was normal.  The Rangers won, but only by out-
>hitting the Mariners.  The bullpen almost blew the game in the last two 
>innings, but the Rangers just managed to pull through (like a lot of
>last year's games).  But these past three games are scaring me.

>Ranger pitching has given up two runs in the past three games.  And
>they're still hitting a ton.  Has hell frozen over?

>I know that three good starts does not make a good pitching rotation,
>but what if the Rangers *do* have decent pitching this year?


>Phil

Well as far as I can tell if they have decent pitching they will win their 
division due to an awesome offense.  Farris, Downing, Palmeiro, Sierra, 
Palmer, Reimer, Franco(when he gets back) sure doesn't look weak at all
to me.  Of course their pitching might have problems with teams other than
Seattle.

John
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: shari@rosemount.com (Shari Nelson)
Subject: News from the WCMT (Twins stuff)
Originator: shari@charlie
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:42:05 GMT

News from the World Champion Minnesota Twins (WCMT for short :-))

Pitching:
The starters have all done reasonably well. Erickson had a fantastic
game going against the Rangers last Saturday, through 5 innings. He
faced the minimum 12 batters through 4 innings, and gave up 1 hit in
the 5th before the roof fell through in the 6th, where he gave up
5 runs. Aggie has blown two 9th inning leads so far, both with long
homers. So the Twins could easily be 5-1 instead of 3-3. Rookie Pat
Mahomes gave up only 2 hits in 6 innings pitched on Sunday, unfortunately
one was a 3 run homer.

Fielding:
The normally sure-handed Twins have committed 11 errors in their
first 6 games - 5 of them coming in a sloppy game in Milwaukee.
This area of the game is sure to improve.

Hitting:
Not bad, but we need the lefties back. Hrbek still can't lift his
right arm over his head. he is hitting ok, but can't make the long
throw, or reach high over is head. He is unlikely to be back before
his arm is a lot better. Pags should be back tonite (Tues) against
the Cheeseheads (er, Brewers).

Other stuff:
The WCMT received their WS rings last Sat night. Former Twin Al
Newman, now with the Rangers was able to get his ring in person. When
his name was called he got a HUGE ovation. His bat won't be missed, but
his personality will be. Highlights on the WS were shown on the big
screen at the home opener on Friday, and Morris got boo'ed when he
was shown. Sour grapes and pretty classless I'd say. He's still a hero to me!
Faye Vincent was at the ring ceremony and repeated that the 1991
Series was the best he has seen. 

WIN TWINS!! 1987, 1991 World Champs... the celebration continues!
shari


PS to Deb Greene if you see this: Help! All mail to you has bounced back.
Do you know of a 'workable' address to send stuff to? 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: ALL-Troublemaker Team  :)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 17:50:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.083901.2325@ducvax.auburn.edu> kenneth@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>
>[ stuff deleted ]
>
>> (This suggests a new thread. The All Trouble-Maker Team.)
>
>Hey! Good idea! :)
>Here goes!
>
>POS Player Name                    Reason
>--- ------------------------------ -------------------------------------------
>OF  Kevin Mitchell                 Rape allegations, taking IF practice wearing
>                                   a walkman 
>OF  Darryl Strawberry              jerk
>OF  jose Canseco                   leaving socks at Madonna's, speeding (55 mh
>                                   OVER the limit)
>OF  Otis Nixon                     Coke (no WONDER he runs so fast...he's
>                                   WIRED!)
>OF  Lenny Dykstra                  Drinking beer and wrecking car and season

OF  Luis Polonia		statuatory rape
>1B  Franklin Stubbs                Charging mound with bat (I think it was him)
>2B  Steve Sax                      mouth in general esp. while in LA

SS  Jose Uribe			hit woman over the head with bat
>
>P   Roger Clemens                  Brawling w/o a license
>P   David Cone                     Wanking
>P   Oil Can Boyd                   Forcing the wife to imitate a punching bag
>P   Pascual Perez                  Running away to NY after a bad start
>P   Rob Dibble                     Throwing at a baserunner; jerk
>P   Steve Howe                     Coke, coke, coke, coke, coke, and coke
P  Julio Machado		killed woman
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>These are just the ones I can think of offhand.  Feel free to add to the list.
>Let me also say that some of the charges above were found to be
>unsubstantiated, such as Cone's recent thing and K. Mitchell's trouble.
>At least, I think Mitchell's were unsubstantiated.  Some are purely opinions,
>mostly I'm hoping a few people will get a laugh out of it.  What can I say,
>I'm in a silly mood.
>
>Ken

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Charter Member of the Acker-o-phobics Anonymous
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball