HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: comp138w142@camins.camosun.bc.ca (Scott)
Subject: Re: Choosing a martial art - effectiveness?
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 23:49:52 GMT


In article <31037@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk>, tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly) writes:
> Like another poster, I am trying to choose a martial art.  Some of you
> will have heard from me before - when I was looking for input on sel-training
> in karate.
> 
> Well I now find myself with some time to train, but rather than just settle
> with shotokan karate, I thought I'd consider a wider range.
> 
> MY PRIMARY REQUIREMENT is an effective self-defence skill.  I understand that
> some of you may feel that that is a lesser requirement, and I respect your
> opinion - but for me, self-defence is number one.
> 
> I AM interested in mental discipline - but I don't require that from martial
> art training.
> 
> I AM interested in physical fitness - but again, if a particular martial art
> doesnt provide that (and instead demands supplementary fitness work) thats
> fine.
> 
> I am NOT interested in meditation, zen, pseudo- (or actual-) religious
> philosophies.  
> 
> I want to learn an effective method of unarmed self-defence - period.
> 
>[stuff deleted] 
> 
> tommy

I'm a new poster. I read your message and have just gotten through about the 
first 60 or so postings in this group so if anyone has said the following 
forgeive me...

  Many people have replied (with interesting info concerning sundry arts) to 
your request for a self protection martial art. 
 
  In my _opinion_ if you want to learn to protect yourself take a street 
safe or Anti rape/mugging (yes I _know_ you're a guy) type course. I've 
found that to learn to properly protect yourself using a martial is not a 
good idea. A martial art takes hours of practice and years of training 
before you get to the point where the moves become instinctive. On the 
other hand, a street self-defence cource at the YWMCA (or whereever) takes 
less money and time to learn. Also, a street course does require you to be 
in great shape (ie. hours of weight training and flexibility exercices)

This is only *my* opinion so if you disagree fine.

I hope you find 1) a martial art that suits you 
  	     or 2) a good, quick "Hit them and run away" course.


Scott W Cale Esq.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gls@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (Col. G. L. Sicherman)
Subject: Re: learning physical things
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:13:15 GMT

kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com writes:

> Hey, Linda.  Maybe there's an advantage to being a klutz after all.
> We don't have as much to unlearn!

Though much of my inbred klutziness has been relieved by years of
Toronto-style "no hassles" tai chi, I disagree.  The advantage of
not having to unlearn is outweighed by the burden of having to learn
to learn.  When you see others learn in one year what you learn in
five, you must look for your advantage in just being you.

-:-
		"When she's dancing next to me,
		 I can hear machinery."

					--T. Dolby
-- 
Col. G. L. Sicherman
gls@windmill.att.COM
From: gt1274b@prism.gatech.EDU (Brad & Janet)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: State Of Mind
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:41:46 GMT
Organization: Screaming Lizard Propulsion Systems


hoagy@engin.umich.edu (Matthew Rupert) writes:
& 	If you wish to try this, go to your school, and ask someone to spar.
& Just straight up ole' fashioned 'hit-point' sparring.  Then, afterwards,
& ask them to throw a punch, kick, whatever at any time during the remainder
& of the session, followed up by several more attacks.  Or, ask the whole class
& to do this.  You won't know when....you won't know how...but someone
& is out to get YOU.

"No, Kato!  Not now!"


-- 
Brad & Janet                                                      i said, cut!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: sworking@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Workinger)
Subject: Re: If these postings are a representative sample of the arts...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 00:14:14 GMT

In article <JON.92Apr15170812@zeus.med.utah.edu>, jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
|>    You know, for a while there, I was seriously considering studying martial arts. 
|>    Then I started reading this newsgroup.
|> 
|> you're right, of course.  i hope you get a chance to read alt.sex
|> before you reach puberty.
|> 
|> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;->

This is simply uncalled for, but it's not a lot worse than some of the
other stuff that's been posted lately.   (I probably contributed to
the problem by making statements that certain individuals interpreted
as denigrating their arts.  Mea culpa.)

It appears that some individuals choose to use the net as an outlet for
aggression because they are relatively immune from the sort of consequences
which would accrue if it was expressed face to face.  That's cowardly.
If you wouldn't say it face to face, don't say it on the net.

The real martial artists I've known have almost all been unfailingly polite.
In fact the greatest ones are frequently the most humble.  

We can't all be great martial artists.  But we are all capable of good
manners and humility.  And that's not a bad start.

Scott
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Crush and maim (was: How to choose...)
Date: 11 Apr 1992 05:40:46 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Crunch, Break, Ow!

In article <kuc13uINN4m1@aludra.usc.edu> pauljone@aludra.usc.edu (Michael Jones) writes:
>I have to disagree with the idea that you can learn T'ai Chi Ch'uan
>without learning the self-defense aspects.  Many people like to
>think that if they ignore violence sincerely enough, that it will
>just go away.

I concur.  First and formost, if you don't understand the intention of the
movement, you'll never be able to do it right.  It may be possible to do 
some sort of dull, lifeless facsimile, but it will not be T'ai Chi. 

The other problem is the tendency of people to become misty-eyed and
fuzzy-headed when practicing T'ai Chi (well, Yang style, at least).  I try
to come up with the goriest possible applications to help keep students'
attention focussed.

>But it is also true that as a MA, the basic philosphy seems to be:
>Use the soft grappling techniques to render your opponent helpless,
>then trash him.  In fact, I have a hard time imagining the use of
>any 'fa jing' movements, without causing severe injury to your
>opponent (well, maybe some of the simple pushes).  

We learned an interesting application of a Chen-style move in class today.  
You get the opponent all twisted up, then break the right wrist, elbow,
shoulder, left ankle and knee with a single fa jing.

By the way, this was a counter to a wrist grab.  This to me illustrates the
difference between a combat art and a self-defense art like aikido.  On the
battlefield, you want to ensure that it is safe to turn your back on your
opponent, and you want to accomplish this as quickly as possible. In a
self-defense situation, however, you only want to neutralize a confrontation,
and you want to accomplish this with as little fuss and bother as possible. 


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Robinson                            UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Re: Taekwondo (on the outside, looking in)
Date: 7 Apr 92 02:12:31 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino

> It does take the official line of the WTF...

Well, not exactly.  TKD Times has as Editor-in-Chief the very well known
Master Sang Kyu Shim.  Sang Kyu Shim very often disagrees with the WTF.

Ray
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: Jow Ga
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 20:25:13 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Summary: addendum to e-mail replies...
Followup-To:      doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>
Keywords: re jow ga and the 1 year program....

In article <993@xlnt.COM> david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:

>In article <Mds8UFe00iU4EBXqZ6@andrew.cmu.edu>, sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan) writes:
>|> 
>|> 	A friend of mine saw an ad in Inside Kung-Fu for Jow Ga
>|> Kung-Fu. He's seriously considering running off for 3 years to study
>|> Jow Ga.
>|> 	Does anyone out there know anything about this school (it's in
>|> or around Washington, DC)? They're advertising for live-in students
>|> who are willing to devote 3 years of their life to learning the system
>|> & spreading it around, in return for free instruction and free room
>|> and board. But they have to train 7 days a week.
>|> 
>|> 	(hey, a 3 year black belt program!)
>
>I would like to know how they can afford to do this.  I wonder what kind of
>financial commitment after "graduating" the students have.  The instructor
>must and should be compensated in some way.
>
>If that is really their program, those 3 years are probably equivalent to a part
>time program (the ones most people have) for 12 or more years.
>
>David Johnson
>XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
>david@xlnt.com

	i did some research on this after receiving e-mamil on it.  there
are several jow ga schools in the area, and the best on is Sifu Derric
Minns' school in langly park, maryland, off of rt 650/new hampshire ave.
	he is very good, and i would not hesitate to reccomend his school
to anyone interested in Jow Ga.  in addition, Sifu Mimms is the current 
president of NACMAF and one of the founding members, along with Sifus
M. Barry, A. Goh, T.M. Wong, and Tai Yim.
	there is another teacher of Jow Ga, and his name is sifu raymond
wong.  his school is in chinatown (or used to be, i believe he moved to
the 'burbs, last year) in washington, d.c..  my personal opinion is that
the quality of instruction is not quite as good, and there are some 
attitudes that have crept into some of the students that come out of there.
there are, however some notable exceptions.  Li Ling (about 10 or 11 by now)
is quite talented and seems to be one of his star students.  there are some
others who are fair, but overall i would say that the training isn't 
producing high quality practitioners.  
	it is the raymond wong's boxing association that is offering this
situation.  i don't know how they are handling it financially or otherwise,
but their hope (as i understand it,) is to attract practitioners to train
intensively for a period of time, then go out and expand the club, eventually
creating a chain of these franchises....
	i would be rather skepticl of the probability of success, based on
my personal observations of the school's competitions, demonstrations,
and skills.
	another opinion, worth what you paid for it!
	as always, i am/at:

	     doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Book on TaekwonDo forms?
Date: 7 Apr 92 02:26:11 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino

>I'm looking for a complete book on TaekwonDo forms (Taeguk, Pawlge, 
>BlackBelt, and the traditional forms).  Does one exist?  

The official WTF book is:
"Taekwondo (Poomse)", The World TKD Federation, Shin Jin Gak Publishing Agency,
1975.
It contains the Taegeuk and Palgwe series along with Koryo, Keumgang, Taebaek,
Pyongwon, Sipjin, Jitae, Cheonkwon, Hansoo, Ilyo.

Pu Gill Gwon wrote "Taegeuk: the new forms of Tae Kwon Do" (available in 
paper back).  Ohara Publications, 1984.

Master Jung Soo Park also has a videotape out with Taeguek, Palgwe, and
other poosme.  Available from Park's TKD Federation in Pompano Beach, FL.

Ray
From: lampij@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: novice to master of basics to novice
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:07:13 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada



The karate belt/rank system...

	There has been a lot of interest here on the rank of black
	belt and its significance.  I have heard some interesting tales
	that try to expain the belts in karate, so I thought I would share them
	here in the hope of getting more in return...

	The beginner is given the white belt.  This is withheld in some clubs
	until the begginer has successfully completed a given number of classes
	Other clubs (mine included) believe everyone with no knowledge of
	karate-do is a white belt.  The white belt signifies purity in your
	ignorance of fighting technique and stratagy.  Once you have trained
	for a considerable period, your belt becomes yellowed because of
	sweat from hard training.  As more time adds to the dirt, blood and 
	sweat on your origional belt, it becomes increasingly darkend until
	it is brown with ages of difficult training and close contact with
	the mats after senior belts have honored you with disclosing your
	weak points to you.  The origional belt must not be washed after
	training begins because all of the experience is washed out.  The
	black belt was the point where the early students first exchanged
	their belts for a new one.  In our close circle of training clubs,
	most of the black belts own Tokiado silk belts.  They are white
	cotton with black silk overtop.  The silk doesn't stand up well
	against the wear and tear of training.  After a year or two, the silk
	begins to wear off around the knot and along side the body where
	the arms repeatedly rub during punching.  This gives a real-time
	feedback on how much training you do.  Those black belts who train
	regularly are easily seen by the degree of wear of their belts.
	It is also said that a true master is a white belt again because
	he no longer has to think about tactics in battle, all responces
	are reflexive; he is pure in his knowledge of his art.  This stage
	might be roughly approximated by the amount of honest wear and
	tear on someones black belt.  The most junior rank I have had
	the honor of seeing with a black belt worn white again is 5th Dan
	and has been teaching karate-do for almost 30 years.

	I hope someone finds this of interest.  If you have a version of 
	this or any other explanation about the belt/rank system of your
	style, let us all know!!!

Yours in Karate-Do

douglas lampi

lampij@brandonu.ca
 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Black Belt
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 03:39:41 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.112112.14012@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>Your mileage may vary, but I deeply respect GRANDMASTER RHEE and appreciate
>what he ha done for the MA community over the years.

Me too.  But what do you think about this alleged one-year-black-belt 
scheme of his?  Does this square with your recollection of the 
pace of advancement for the typical student during your time with the 
system?
--
Richard A. Drury                                    drury@helix.nih.gov
National Institutes of Health                                   
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: grex@world.std.com (Mark J Urbin)
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:48:19 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.111829.770@gacvx2.gac.edu> karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick) writes:
>[snip]...  A katana is the ultimate blade.  The problem one has
>when pitting any other weapon besides a katana (or tachi, naginata)
>against a katana, is that the katana can typically cut through the
>alloys used to make other weapons, as well as any armor someone might
>be wearing.  Shock-jackets (bullet proof vests that stop high-
>powered rifle shells, even .475 supermagnums) are probably the only
>personal armor that would stop a katana.
   Any system that teaches defense against the sword (there are a lot of them
and most involve the use of some sort of weapon) teaches you right up front
that blocking a cut at right angles to the blade's edge is BAD!  If I'm 
defending against a katana with a staff of some sort, I'm not going to let
the swordsman cut it.  There exists a good chance the cut will go right 
through the stick and into ME!  Use the staff to attack the side or back edge
of the blade.  Redirect the sword, perferably to the outside, and attack 
inside the blade's sweep.
  As for katana's going through `bullet-proof' vests.  Kevlar isn't very 
good at stopping sharp objects.  A vest that would stop a .45 slug (but
distributing the shock), can be cut by a sharp knife.  This is just one of
the reasons steel plate inserts can be added to kevlar vests.



-- 
Mark Urbin  grex@world.std.com     These opinions are mine.
Dictators free themselves by enslaving others.  They work not for your 
benefit, but their own.  -- Charlie Chaplin, "The Little Dictator"
From: twh73@isuvax.iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Can anyone help?
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:12:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Apr15.151259.2407
Reply-To: twh73@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa

Hi, I am writing an arguementative research paper for my english class.  Is
there anyone out there that knows some good resources for argueing that the
martial arts are good for a person physically.  I know that the arts are more
than that, but I have to be specific for this paper.  Thankes

									Stiletto
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: Dougie-Poo
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 11 Apr 92 20:30:47 CDT

>In article <1992Apr8.205312.8062@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>
>allready, come over to Milwaukee tap your foot three times 
>

.... I thought it was "click your heels three times"... oh, no, wait...

        ....that was to get to *Kansas* ....


-Lauren
 





Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Subject: re: Dougie-poo
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 04:47:58 GMT

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) says:


>	I used to know a horse that would do this.  You'd say "How many
>fingers am I holding up" and the horse would tap his foot...

Heh, funny :)

Actually tapping(sp?) the foot three times in front of you like that
was one of the ways people used to use to signify a challenge in China.
Similar to slapping the face with a glove in Europe.

Take care!


Marty
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: 2 Questions...
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:41:34 GMT

Well...  I'm 35 year-old bald fart.  I work out only about 2 hours per night
doing T'ai Chi plus various other kung fu stuff.  I find it difficult to
believe that anyone doing say Shotokan, TKD, etc., etc., couldn't raise their
legs (without injury to themselves) in a street fight at any given time.  I
stretch some, but not that much, and I could easily raise my leg way above
head level even if someone were to walk into my office right now and ask me to
demonstrate.  What's the question?

On the other hand, I think it would be really foolish to use a head shot
unless you're one of these people who trains so much that you can easily get
your foot to that level before your opponent's block.  I would prefer shooting
for more modest targets like knees, stomach, groin, the spot just below the
buttocks, kidneys, etc.  Why raise your leg to head level except to train
yourself?  I generally try to do about 100 head-level kicks per night, but
this is just so that I can kick fast at low points.

Oddly, when I spar, I often find my legs going to the head because I think
it's mean to aim for someone's knees when sparring and it's easier to control
my leg up high.
From: fax0243@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: What's the point?
Date: 12 Apr 92 22:30:16 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

	So what's the point of karate, anyway? Our school is very informal and
the main reason people go is to learn a little self defense, stay in shape, and
have some fun. Doesn't seem like too many of our instructors (don't call 'em
senseis here) really have any other point to karate than to be able to defend
one's self when the going gets tough. 
	Probably the closest we have ever come to actually covering anything
about what the whole deal with this karate thing is was when our instructor Rod 
started reading _Zen In the Martial Arts_ to us. Unfortunately some mom in the
kids class got ticked off because she thought he was teaching "eastern
religion" or something...
	Bringing me to my point... What do you all get out of karate? I have
three things that I think most people get out of karate no matter what style or
school they come from. Those are: 1). Self defense abilities, 2). Self-esteem
(at least a little), 3). More or less physical fitness.

I'm just wondering if there's some thing I should actually work for in my quest
for black belt?

Sonya Chang
fax0243@uoft02.utoledo.edu
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: How to choose a Martial Art discipline?
Keywords: hsing-i  pa-kua  t'ai chi
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:17:21 GMT
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center

TAP TAP TAP

Dear Kevin Cole; Washington DC

I am an MA instructor an hour away from you.  I propose the following.
Two introductory classes cost something like a $20.00 bill.  I teach
an adult beginner class WED nights at 7:00 PM.

Try it, if you don't like it *MA training as taught at the school
I attend*, I'll pick up your tab.  I fully understand we are two
far away to be your regular school, but give me a shot for your
intro to the arts.

Report your impressions back to the net, good and bad.

Thank You,

Stephen Northcutt instructor Seongs TKD Academy Fredericksburg VA
(snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil) 
===================================================================
From: rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: have you heard of...
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:23:57 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: batcomfs

In article <1992Apr8.144249.12485@cs.rose-hulman.edu> acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
>...bruce siddow (not too sure how is last name is spelt siddow, siddo, siddlow?)
>
>he teaches seminars mainly...knife defense, pressure points kind of thing.

    I believe it's spelled Siddle.  I've heard that he teaches cop type
    training, including the stuff you mentioned.  I believe his knife
    defense is "based" on the Filipino martial arts, but is cop-i-fied
    so that anyone can learn it.  Of course, that's the claim.  I have
    doubts it's true.

    IMHO, cop type training is usually not as good as the detailed
    martial arts training upon which it is often based.  And it's expensive
    to boot.
--
    Robert Allen, rja@sun.com		DISCLAIMER: I said it, not my company.

    "Traditionalists often study what is taught, not what there is to create."
			     - Ed Parker, Grandmaster, American Kenpo.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: O'Sensei
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:06:10 GMT


  Quote from an Aikido beginner :

  "Just who was this Oh Sensei and why does he have so many relatives ??"



  -- Ted Sensei 

==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912