From: jbutz@hogpa.ho.att.com (John J Butz +1 908 949 5302)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
Subject: Re: Sprint Dis-Cards
Date: 13 Dec 92 19:26:58 GMT
Organization: TELECOM Digest
X-Submissions-To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu
X-Administrivia-To: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu
X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 12, Issue 904, Message 12 of 14

Pat writes:

> [Moderator's Note: Fraud with calling cards is very bad, believe me.
> It runs millions of dollars a year, but that is no excuse for AT&T to
	long diatribe on AT&T omitted

> And as for Sprint, they were sued by the parents of a sixteen year old
	shorter diatribe on Sprint omitted

Whoa Nellie!

Now, before AT&T takes a bad rap here, the corporation has taken steps
to set up phone centers in urban areas.  These phone centers are
fairly new and I don't know what they are called, but they provide
translation services, long distance dialing, and a whole host of other
services for urban residents **in the neighborhoods in which they
live**.  The first one to go on line was in Flushing, Queens in New
York City, home of the NY Mets and many ethnically diverse citizens.
Also, AT&T has many long distance and international discount
promotions on foreign ethnic holidays.  I don't see *any* of the other
"cream-skimming" IXCs providing any similar services to inner-city
dwellers.  As far as false advertising is concerned, if I see another
product labeled "All Natural" or watch another info-mercial hawking
firmer buttocks, miracle weight loss or a full head of hair, I think
I'm going to puke!  Point made.

Please help me understand what is illegal here.  As far as I know, the
only thing AT&T has to legally provide as far as payphone service is
concerned is long distance coin, because nobody else wants this
business.  Anything else (again as far as payphones) is a business
venture that is subject to the rules of the market place.

Fraud for calling cards is of immense proportion.  It might even be
safe to say it runs in the *hundreds* of millions per year.  I have
heard quotes that call it the fastest growing segment of the telephony
industry!!!!  Accounting 101 tells us that corporations exist to make
a profit, not to see how high the uncollectables can grow.  If fraud
patterns exist, who is to say a corporation cannot defend against
them?  Who is to say that Pathmark or K-mart or Sears or a mom and pop
video rental store MUST do business in the same neighborhoods you
describe above if they feel the risk is unacceptable?  What makes AT&T
so special here?  A caller can still drop coins into the phone and
complete the same call on the network and it will cost him less!


J "Pre-Holiday Stress" Butz	AT&T - BL
jbutz@hogpa.att.com		ER700 Sys Eng
Opinions are mine.


[Moderator's Note: I don't know of any such 'calling center' in
Chicago. I'd be interested in more details about these: where they are
located (which cities/neighborhoods); what are the charges for the
service, etc. Regards illegal activities, telephone calling cards are
considered extensions of credit, and as such, the federal government
regulates credit lending practices. Credit regulations forbid
discrimination based on ethnic origin. People from Israel (for
example) would be quite likely to call Israel on the telephone. Ditto
people from (for example) India or Pakistan calling their homelands.
AT&T will not accept their credit card as payment on calls to Israel,
India or Pakistan -- regardless of their printed literature which says
they will do so -- to those countries for no other reason than the
rate of fraud being quite high when calling those places from the USA.

The possibility of fraud is not a sufficient reason to deny credit to
someone.  I can call a friend in the UK from a pay telephone downtown
and use my AT&T Calling Card as payment. My next door neighbor, who
comes from Iran cannot use his calling card to call from the payphone
at the corner 7/11 to call his home country. That is discrimination
and it is illegal under federal law. As a matter of fact, since we
have a large number of 'coinless payphones' here in the War on Drugs,
this makes a Catch-22 situation: Those calls cannot be paid for with
coins during overnight hours when the phone is restricted, nor can a
calling card be used. I have a great deal of sympathy with the telcos
due to the high amount of fraud they suffer, but the problem is in
their system, and they'll have to fix it in a lawful manner. Why not
consider using 'voice prints'? I think Sprint has such a thing they
were testing, and 'voice prints' are almost foolproof, no?    PAT]