HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Clark v Thomas
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:21:22 GMT
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853

In article <4200371@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
>I may be looking through orange tinted glasses.  On the other hand, these
>are some of the factors that need to be looked at:
>
>o Clark plays 1/2 his games in a pitcher's park where the wind often keeps
>  balls in

It is only a mild pitchers park.  New Comiskey appears to be about
twice as bad for hitters as Candlestick is.  Old Comiskey was one of
the biggest pitchers parks in the league.  Certainly not an incredible
difference either way.

>o For many years Clark's RBI total may not compare with Thomas because Clark
>  Had Jeffery Leonard and Chili Davis in the lineup with him.  Then, after
>  these guys were gone Clark had Mitchell and Williams.  You can't always
>  get tons of RBIs when you are in the middle of a sweet lineup.

Bullshit.  Clark bats third.  These guys bat *behind* him in the
lineup.  There is no way they will steal RBIs from him.  Now, you
might comment that the leadoff hitter in front of him has generally
sucked.  You know, that Brett Butler is pretty bad...  There must be
*some* reason why Clark doesn't drive in 110 runs a year!  Reality?
He isn't a premier HR hitter, and RBIs severely favor (overrate?) home
run hitters.  And Clark's best years have happened to come during
those years when he has had the least support from his teammates.

>o Last season Clark had no protection at all in the lineup.  Clark is a 
>  very competitive, agressive player.  He'd rather put the ball in play
>  than leave the bat on his sholder.  As such his numbers for '92 are
>  worse than previous years.  I look for much better this year with Bonds
>  and Williams (assuming Bonds takes the pressure off of Williams who is
>  a bit of a head case).

So Clark "loses RBIs in the middle of a strong lineup", yet he can't
handle batting in a weaker lineup.  And, of course, you overlook the
fact that Thomas doesn't have any more support than Clark...  And will
have less support next year.

>o I think Clark has the best left handed swing in the game today.

I prefer the results of McGriff, though.  Not as sweet a swing, but he
is a solid .300/.400/.500 player, never having an OBP below .376 or a
SLG below .494 in his entire career!  A season like that would be
about average for Clark.

Cheers,
-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma)
Subject: What Managers Say And What They Actually Mean
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:21:13 GMT

  Sometimes the Baseball Weekly is highly entertaining for it's humourous 
quotes from morons from the front office.       

  On signing Pete Incaviglia and Milt Thompson,
  "I think we added speed in Thompson and power in Incaviglia. It's a nice mix."
  says Jim Fregosi.

  What He Wants You To Believe:
    We've solidified one position by signing quality players to share time and
  be productive in two important areas of baseball. The power and speed combo
  will cover what we missed when we couldn't sign Bonds.

  Reality:
    We've wasted roster spots on two mediocre players and wasted money in the
  process. At least we brought some warm bodies you may have heard of instead
  of letting unknowns play the position. We've ensured that left field will
  remain a sore spot for several years.

  On Signing Free Agents Mike Moore, Tom Bolton and Bill Krueger
  "We ain't ragamuffins no more. We'll be decent. At least now we've got a 
  chance." said Sparky.

  What He Wants You To Believe:
    Bolton, Moore and Krueger are experienced vets who "know how to pitch".
  This increases our pitching depth and the knowledge they pass on to the
  young pitchers is invaluable. By retaining Gullickson and signing these
  other pitchers we've made our pitching staff a strong one.

  Reality:
    Sparky is a senile old man who will tell you every pitcher could be a 20
  game winner and every hitter a Babe Ruth. By patching together a pitching 
  staff with players on a clear downtrend Sparky is further putting off the
  rebuilding job needed in Detroit.

  On Acquiring Greg Hibbard         
  "Hibbard is going to be one of our starters, either a No4 or No5 guy. I'm  
  still looking for lefties. I love Lefties."

  What He Wants You To Believe:
  Basically exactly what he said.

  Reality (or in this case Translation):
  "I love lefties so much that I wasted millions of dollars in signing Dan 
  Plesac and Randy Myers and getting Hibbard. I'll continue to waste more
  money until I have an all-lefty pitching staff, I've already got Myers,
  Plesac, Hibbard, Assenmacher and McElroy. I have no idea why I need 4
  left handed relief pitchers but I do. Or I could put Myers or Plesac in
  the starting rotation and watch them get shellacked in that role. 
    I love lefties so much that I'll ignore the fact that my offense is my
  biggest problem until lefties dominate the world!"

					Gord Niguma
					(fav player: John Olerud)


-- 
In Stores Now:
The brand new album from Gord Niguma, Chris Nantes and Sean Andrews!
Songs Include: Yesterday My Hamster Died, The Death Of Kirby Puckett,
               Let Love In, Alcoholic Santa Claus......Get your copy today!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Jays will repeat!!!
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 05:08:06 GMT

Alfredo Griffin has resigned with the "best" team in baseball.

93 WS is now in the bag.

rm

-- 
Roger Maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: red sox are laughable.
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:01:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.233544.24378@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>In article <Jan.4.10.44.20.1993.12236@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>>
>>the red sox are supposedly interested in signing jerome walton.
>>
>>which would give them more outfielders than the rest of the major
>> leagues put together.  
>
>at least they got rid of ellis burks... who signed with the other
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>color sox.

But here is the problem; they got rid of their *talented* outfielders while
acquiring/keeping not-so-talented ones.  Of the ones they acquired in the
off-season, only Calderon is a good one, IMO, and they got rid of their two
most talent ones (Plantier and Burks) while getting very little for them.
(Jose Melendez is a good pitcher, but there is only so much a middle reliever
can do; the Red Sox got nothing for Burks.)

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: stewart@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Terry Stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:06:59 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <8402@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan07.161713.24781@watson.ibm.com>
>mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones) writes:
>>acker@maple.circa.ufl.edu writes:
>>: Phil Niekro deserves to be in the hall of fame.  Period.
>>
>>Yup. Very possibly more than Reggie does.
>
>
>HEAR HEAR!!!!
 
Despite Phil's record with Toronto, I couldn't agree more.  
It would be an honour that the first Toronto Blue Jay player 
in the HOF were "Ineffective Phil" (somebody correct
me if I'm wrong on this one).  Next year!
 
Terry../
stewart@healthy.uwaterloo.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nlu@csd-d-5.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Originator: nlu@csd-d-5.Stanford.EDU
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organizatoin
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:17:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.164948.27987@athena.mit.edu> frisch1@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan Katz) writes:

>Now, wait a minute.  What exactly are you trying to imply??
>The only point I was trying to make, albeit not to your satisfaction, was that
>there are plenty of teams who would be better off with Fielder.
>If you have a problem with that, please specify it instead of resorting to vague
>generalities!

How plenty?  Not very plenty.  California.  Kansas City.  Seattle.
Baltimore (now they somehow decided to get rid of one of the 1Bs better than
Fielder).  Boston.  Milwaukee.  New York.  7 of 13 teams in the AL; I wouldn't
call that exactly star-like caliber.

(e. g., cf. Barry Larkin, with whom pretty much *any* team would be better off)

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseeball
Keywords: stars best baseball
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 01:23:05 GMT

In article <steph.726450880@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>While I like Alomar better than Sandberg next year, I'm not convinced he's
>better than Sandberg defensively.  Sandberg's range factor was 5.36, while
>Alomar was a 4.68, lowest in the AL.  Lacking any better information (like
>DA), Sandberg looks better -- though not necessarily faster :->.

Alomar was the *worst* in the AL? really?
if that is the case, i don't understand these range factors very much.
could someone please explain what they are, what they include and exclude,
and also for what they are adjusted (park, etc.?)

i'm not going to start down the "the stats say he's worst but i know he's
great from seeing him" road again.. i'm just genuinely curious as to how someone
who appears to be a defensive gem can have the lowest range factor. either
he is doing it with mirrors, i am crazy, or that statistic is bogus.
if anyone can clarify which of these three it is, i would like to hear it.

also, what is the relationship between range factors and defensive averages?
use email if you think i am the only one who doesn't know this stuff (but
i doubt it)

--
charles
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Stop the Keystone Cops! (was - Ted's Simmon's latest acquisition)
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:27:26 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek):

>Lonnie Smith - *wimper*
>
>Now, mind you I don't dislike the guy and he might actually be a good
>guy to relieve VanSlyke and Al Martin from time to time, and he didn't 
>cost a fortune by the modern baseball standards, but this signing
>combined with a few others that Ted Simmons and Mark Sauer (aka Keystone cops)
>have made this season - well they've given me a episode of Deja vu
>that I could do with out.  The signing of Pena, Foley, Candelaria 
>and now Smith reminds me very much of a period a few years ago when 
>management filled the roster with the like of Steve Kemp, George Hendricks
>and Amos Otis.  

In the interests of fairness and perestroika, I have to admit that I agree
with Paul on this one.  (Huckabay, stop giggling.)  As Paul says, it isn't
Lonnie Smith _per_se_ that I object to; he's probably got one good year left
in him, and the team is definitely outfielder-poor at the moment.  But the
trend is clearly there.

Frankly, the signing that terrifies me is Tom Foley.  I mean, the only reason
to sign a player is if you can foresee circumstances in which you might
actually *choose* to have this player on the field "for" your team, right?
Any team that *wants* Tom Foley on their side is dangerously misguided.

Maybe we could trade Foley, Candelaria, and Lonnie to the Expos for Matt
Stairs.  I mean, *they* aren't using him...


-- 
       David Tate        |"Out of the dugout endlessly swinging,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | Out of the manager's throat, the sound fundamentals,
 Prof. of Story Problems | Out of the six-month season..."            
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR | 	Walt "Lefty" Whitman
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:46:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.221131.17994@cs.wayne.edu> dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane) writes:
>"..news that Tiger fans have been *waiting* to hear".  Yeah right.  
>Five years, thirty-six million.

Honest???  You mean, he's getting (marginally) *more* than Barry
Bonds?

Bonds...
1) is younger, by about two years and thirty pounds.
2) is a Real Baserunner.
3) plays outstanding defense.
4) has been a better slugger each of the last two years (fewer HR,
   but more 1B, 2B, and 3B)
5) Runs a *very* good batting average.
6) Walks 100 times a year.
7) Has played on a winning team.

>My god, he's barely above average
>*right now*, can you imagine what he'll be like five years from now?

Well, he might rebound a little bit.  Last year's .244/.325/.458
performance was a *little* worse than I expected.  But his RBI totals
will continue to drop as his teammates decline.  (Whitaker and
Phillips can't keep this up forever, can they?)

>It really didn't help to have Ilitch announce last summer that one of
>his top priorities was to re-sign Fielder, and that he would do that at
>any cost.  And then when local sportswriters and "experts" starting
>saying stuff like "If Bonds is worth seven million, can you imagine what
>Cecil Fielder is worth?", the fans started getting mad about it, so I
>guess the Tigers felt they had to sign him.

Huh!  Fielder is the luckiest guy in the world.

-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wildcat@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Wes Wildcat)
Subject: HOF
Organization: Scientific Computing Divison/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:25:01 GMT


	I heard the baseball Hall of Fame ballots are out.  The only eligible
names are heard were Reggie Jackson, Steve Garvey and Bill Madlock.  Anyone
know who is eligible and i wonder if Leo Duroucher(sp) will get in this time.

Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:37036 rec.sport.baseball.fantasy:978
From: anish@ctt.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: 40 man rosters
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:05:29 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, New Jersey


Does anyone have a copy of the (updated) 40-man rosters (reflecting all of the
winter moves, signings, etc.)? The latest one I have is from Baseball Weekly about a month ago, and it's long since out of date. If you have a newer one, could you plase send it my way?

Thanks,

Anish

-- 
*******************************************************************************
**									     **
** Anish Bhimani                //'And they looked back and forth, from pig  **
** Bellcore                     // to man, man to pig, and no one noticed    **
** RRC-1J214                    // any difference.'                          **
** 908/699-5571                 // George Orwell - "Animal Farm"             **
** 									     **
** If the Democrats can win the White House, why can't the Browns win the    **
** Super Bowl?								     **
** 									     **
*******************************************************************************
From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:36:53 GMT
Subject: Re: Astros Contenders?
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

I'm not sure why the Astros picked up Bass and Uribe.  Bass had only one
half decent year with SF and has been injured a lot.  There are questions in
my mind as to how much his knees can take on the Dome's turf.  If the Astros
don't plan to play him everyday then why pay several hundred thousand?  Strange
move.

As for Uribe - I don't think his career is over.  He has pretty good defensive
skills.  However, he has only hit well (.291) once.  Maybe the turf will help
him get some hits.  This isn't a bad move.  With the signing of Bonds this
year (and Clark after next year) the Giants need to trim payroll.  With
Clayton ready to go, Jose was expendable.

Don Boell

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (K. Mitchell Bose)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 12:21:41 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Before I begin, I'd like to say that I promise to keep this under five pages.

:)

In article <1993Jan8.182153.25244@cbnewse.cb.att.com> gotribe@cbnewse.cb.att.com (richard.g.barry) writes:
>
>You guys get so bogged down in your stats and comparisons, that you
>forget what the Detroit owner really wants to do - get people to
>the park and make money.  Fielder is as big (no pun intended) in
>Detroit as other superstars are in other towns.  When the town loses
>the superstars, they tend not to support the team until they either
>get a new superstar or start winning.  In Chicago, the guys on
>the radio are already advocating not going to Bears pre-season games
>next year because McCaskey fired Ditka (Chicagos' newest superstar
>hero).  Detroit needs Fielder and $$$ shouldn't be an issue.
>

When I think of what personalities mean to teams, I certainly try to keep 
fan appeal in mind.  After all, I lived in Southern Cal when Fernando came up.
And if Cecil (or his agent) had said, "I'm worth $7 million because I attract
fans to Tiger Stadium,"  I'd look at it like that.  But Cecil's attitude is
"I get the most ribbies; I should be paid the most." (Or "I should be MVP.")
His attitude (and the attitude of many fans) is that he is better than Bonds,
and *that* is justification for the higher contract, and sorry, Cece, but you
are a fat, slow first baseman with tons of baserunners ahead of you, and you
don't return the favor by setting the table for Tettleton and Deer.  You may
bring in a lot of fans (but not 2000 more per game, which is what it would
take to justify the larger salary, approximately), but you aren't the best
player in the game.  You aren't the best first baseman in the game.  You 
aren't the best player on your team.  Not even including a Long Shot over the
roof.  (IMHO, Mickey Tettleton could be just as big if marketed properly in a
town without Cece.)

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kbos@carina.unm.edu * Walks: not that sexy.
"Halt!  Based on conclusive dental evidence that truly bites, I arrest you 
 hereby for the murdering of the dead Belzic Tascar.  I am obliged to warn you 
 that my weapons are registered as offensive fronds!!"- R.M.Allen, "Monkey See"
From: fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Poor Lonnie Smith
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:07:35 GMT
Organization: Biochemistry

OK, one thing that doesn't seem to be in dispute is that Lonnie Smith can still
HIT!  The Braves tried for two years to trade him to an American League club. 
Now Lonnie signs with another NL club.  Doesn't something seem wrong here?  If
ever a player was meant to play DH, wouldn't it be Lonnie?

Eric Roush			Deck us all with Boston Charlie
fierkelab@			Walla Walla Wash and Kalamazoo!
bchm.biochem.duke.edu	Nora's freezin' on the Trolley,
				Swaller Dollar Cauliflower Alla-ga-Roo!

				Walt Kelley
From: jclark@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (J. Michael Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: First Game Memories (Was: Re: Hey Giants fans!)
Date: 9 Jan 93 19:46:02 GMT
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept,. Athens

Here's what I remember about my first game....
It was 1980 (I was 9) and we were heading to Wisconsin to visit my grandparents
like we did many times before.... My dad says (as we're heading through
Milwaukee) "Maybe we should drive by so you can see where the Brewers play"
(I was (and still am) a BIG Brewers fan) (BTW my dad was soooooooo slick..
he had it all planned ahaead of time)
Anyway we stop and guess what.... the Brewers were playing that night (big 
suprise to me, not my dad)....
Anyway, the game itself:
The Brewers were playing the Tigers..... I remember the Tigers turned a triple
play (yes I saw a TP at my first major league game) and a pitcher named
Jerry Ujder got his first major league win. I also remember a lot of home
runs, something like 6 (3 for each team) and I think the Tigers won 8-6.
 
Well, that's my story.... anyone else??
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 1993 17:18:56 -0500 
From: Ken_Ziolkowski@transarc.com
Subject: Ted's Simmon's latest acquisition


  WTAE radio just announced that the Pirates have
signed Lonnie Smith to a one-year contract. Terms
have not been disclosed.

  My question is why?????

  Are Biff and Spliff out to destroy this team?

  Can one of you statheads post Lonnie's stats for
the past year and his projected stats for '93?

  First they signed "Payload" Pena, then John
Candelaria, and now Lonnie Smith.

  What are these people thinking?

  Or is it "What are these people smoking?"

  It's going to be a long season.

Ken
From: twhite@mozart.amd.com (Tom White)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: First Game Memories
Date: 10 Jan 93 05:08:39 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <lsmith.726632187@deci> lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith) writes:
>  Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith  | "Moments after being named manager for the
>    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)     |  Oakland A's, Mr Peanut was crushed by a 
>  Special Limited Edition   |  red headed loner wielding an aluminum bat." 
>     r.s.bb .signature      |                _Murder at the Mausoleum_

   Tsk.  Gary wouldn't use non-traditional aluminum, would he?

   My first game was in late 1977, Red Sox at Yankees.  WAY up in the
nosebleed level behind first base, where we quickly learned that even 
a soft liner to the shortstop looked like it would carry well into the
outfield.  Yaz went deep, and the Sox won, 7-6.  Don't remember much else.

   My first game _in_Fenway_ was the same two teams, late in 1986, on a
miserable rainy night, suffering from the flu to boot.  Yo, Mike, you must
remember this one better than I can.  I remember the Sox lost.  The Red Sox
have a miserable W-L record when I'm in the stands, both at home and on
the road.



--
 Thomas White          | Comparison is always a losing game. 
 Austin, Texas         |  
                       |                                  "We are unmarketable. 
 twhite@mozart.amd.com |                           It is our greatest revenge."
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cito and John (was--Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-()
Date: 12 Jan 1993 21:31:39 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1993Jan12.203312.10729@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu  
(Charles M Kozierok) writes:

> there is also the vicious circle where a player never gets to see
> lefties, so he hits them poorly when he does bat against them, and then
> the (not too bright) manager confirms his "suspicions" and again
> keeps the guy away from lefties. i wonder how
> many careers have been ruined (or at least delayed) by this.

One that I can think of is Ben Oglivie

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Go Brewers! Up, please
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball