From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Who cares
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:34:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.023030.8570@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Tim Radzykewycz) writes:
>cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>> >>It's good that you do't/didn't do all of the above, but NOT doing is as
>> >>good as condoning in practice.
>> >>
>> >
>> >I reject this out of hand. You are witch burning and don't even realize it.
>> 
>> Oh so much bullshit.  He isn't witch burning.  All he's saying is that
>> if you bitch and moan about White Oppression, why aren't you equally
>> bitching about other forms?
>> ...
>> If you do nothing to rectify a bad situation, YOU ARE GUILTY OF
>> PERPETRATING IT, even if you didn't get it started.
>
>I hate to take this up, because when I do, I'll probably be
>branded as holding a position I don't hold.
>
>Janis, what have *YOU* done to rectify the situation of men who
>are assumed to be evil -- the ex-husbands who want to see their
>kids, the men who society refuses to give childcare to simply
>because they're male, the men who are thrown in prison when a
>woman would have been released for the same crime?

I have read material and given small (I'm limited in cash) donations to
a group that supports father's rights.  I had a tremendous father, and I
certainly would not have wanted to be sent to my mom only on the basis
of her sex, had my parents divorced.  In all honesty, though, the groups
aren't terribly visible.  When I see one, I listen to what they say and
make a little $$$ gift if I can. 

(The group was on my old campus -- PSU.)

>Don't buy into this philosophy!  Don't start arguing the "well,
>you gotta help my cause or else your cause is shit" thing.  It
>is NEVER helpful, and it often causes the problems to get
>worse.

I didn't think I was, but your advice is worth following.  I just get
bugged whenever people automatically go off into the "OH MY GOD SHE'S
BLAMING ME FOR EVERYTHING WHY IS IT THAT THESE PEOPLE SCREAM THEIR ASSES
OFF ALL THE TIME AND TRY TO MAKE ME FEEL GUILTY I DIN'T DO NUTHIN'
WHAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH THESE PEOPLE AAAAARRRRGGGHH!!" shpiel.  I do
what I can for all causes.  When the subject of father's rights comes
up, I listen and do what I can.  I refuse to manipulate my boyfriend
into doing things (like one friend back home keeps encouraging me to do.
I'll mention a nice ring or something I saw and she'll say in this
really coy voice that sounds like nails on a blackboard, "Why don't you
get Mike to get it for you?"  Sorry, dear.  I have a boyfriend, not a
meal ticket.  If I want respect out of him, I have NO RIGHT to try to
wheedle stuff out of him, and use him like a golddigger.).  That's the
example I'm closest to, so it's the one I can talk about with the most
facility. 
 
I'm not trying to say that if you don't support my cause, then your
cause is worth shit.  I'm just offended at the attitude of "It's not my
mess so I'm not cleaning it" that I see.  Your point is, however,
taken.

>Listen, folks, each of us has a limited amount of time to right
>the wrongs of the world.  The *best* place to start taking
>action is simply to try to change your OWN behavior.  Just try
>to avoid stereotypes.  When you watch your "divorce court", be
>careful to avoid judging the cases based on the sex of the
>people involved.  If you notice someone else who does judge the
>cases that way, then you can point it out to them, but the most
>important thing is to realize whether or not you're doing it
>yourself.  And fight against it when you notice it happening to
>you.  When you are in the position to hire someone, then don't
>let prejudice influence your decision.

And if you see something going wrong, try to at LEAST understand it, or
work a little to right it.  Don't scream about how YOU didn't do it. 

>When you can, and you decide you want to, help causes more
>actively than that, then BLESSINGS ON YOU!  I mean that!  You're
>wonderful people, whether you're trying to right the wrongs
>against women, or against non-whites, or against homosexuals and
>bisexuals, or against trees in the forests.  What wrongs you're
>trying to fix are less important than the fact that you're
>trying to fix them.
>
>But I'll say it again: the MOST IMPORTANT thing to do is to
>recognize when YOU are doing something descriminatory and to try
>to correct it instead of trying to deny it.  

Or trying to abrogate responsibility to help in the clean-up.

>You don't even
>have to be completely successful -- for example, whoever it was
>that posted s/he was trying to minimize the detrimental impact
>her/his life has on nature.  BLESSINGS TO YOU (even if I can't
>remember who you are.)
>
>(-:
>Well, enough ranting.  I'll say this once more, just so that
>people can take it out of context, and TRY to make my life
>mizerable:
>
>What have *YOU* done to help men's causes?

What I've posted above is the stuff that springs to mind.  I do not
encourage men to act like assholes (I've seen women who bemoan
the lack of "sensitive" men and then turn around and call a guy a wimp.
When I see it, I usually tell the woman to chill and knock it the hell
off.).  I have voluntarily decided to sever relations with people who
act that way.  I refuse to exploit my boyfriend as a financial meal
ticket.  I try to stay abreast of father's rights issues and donate when
I can -- when I have the money, which isn't frequently.  Do you have any
specific men's causes in mind?  To be honest, I don't see dad's rights
groups all that much, though.  (Thank god/dess though that I'm at least
seeing more men walking around with baby-carriers strapped to them.  Is
this related to the above?  Maybe . . .   Men have so long been denied
the simple pleasure of being tactile and loving toward their kids
through having to be the family disciplinarian -- now that men are
(slowly) changing their attitudes and opening up to the world of being
tender toward their kids, father's rights SHOULD be reconsidered.  

I'm also curious about the crimes you mention -- seriously.  What do you
have in mind?

Blessings,
Janis