From: stingray@unlisys.in-berlin.de (Christian Lampl)
Subject: Re: Let's hit Nazis?
Organization: Unlimited Surprise Systems, Berlin
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:16:58 GMT

abkevich@husc3.harvard.edu writes:

>> Yes. People in general tend to refuse the truth until it is proven
>> at least third times (I mean if they don't like the truth).
>> This is not a good thing. And not an excuse (again and again), but
>> the germans don't have a copyright on this fact, either.

>Should I understand you, that you finally agreed with me that germans in
>reallity did know what was going on, but prefered not to know? I could
>understand why... After all my own grandparents didn't do a thing in 1937, even
>though they understood what were going on. They were afraid... After all what
>could they do? But it doesn't mean that I don't condemn THEM. And it doesn't
>make MY life easier eventhough I was born 12 years AFTER Stalin's death. It is
>very important to understand that they knew.
> 
Well, I think that there were many people who knew (hmm.. maybe 
it is better to say who were quite sure) that cruel things 
were happening. I think most of them were just afraid.
I won't condemn them for being afraid, because I don't know
how I would have had reacted. 


>I agree. Persons who made a crime (and we should prove it) should not be a 
>concern of newsgroups, they should be taken to court. What I am talking about
>is a moral guilt of people who were old enough by 1945 and didn't rise their
>voice against crimes, about which they knew. Because of many reasons that makes
>almost all nation. That is why I am talking about "Germans", not about list of
>names. All people who were born after let's say 1927 are not guilty at all.
>Most of them have nothing to do with Nazis (at least I hope so). They made no 
>crime. Nobody should accuse them. However I am not forgetting that they were
>*influenced* by their parents and grandparents who are bearing moral guilt. 
>That's why I am trying lets say "suspicious" when somebody is saying: "I am
>German. But I was born after 1945 and so 'de facto' I have as much in common
>with Nazis as you." That is what you are doing. You are not hiting Nazis. For
>example I think that I am influenced by communists much stronger then you and
>so have much more in common with them (or you are from East Germany? Then you
>are really in trouble... :-)).   
No, I'm not from East Germany.
But I don't agree with you in the points you mentioned above
(at least not in all of them).
The point I mean is the moral guilt of all people who didn't rise
their voice. It's easy to say this little sentence.
There were many reasons why some people are able to stand up and
fight and some not. I'm not (and I think nobody is) the one 
who can condemn the fear of other people.
The ones who knew were afraid (at least most of them)
and the ones who not know .. yeah, they didn't know.
I'm not here to condemn fear or unknowledge.
Then I would have to condemn everybody (doesn't matter if
German or not) who didn't fight against the Nazis.
Because I don't know the reasons of every single person
for his/her deeds I'm just not even able to judge somebody.
If ya think you can judge a whole nation or the whole
world it's OK.

Bye,
  Christian

-- 
"There're so many different worlds, so many different suns,
 but we have just one world, though we live in different ones"
- Dire Straits "Brothers in arms"
Christian Lampl - stingray@unlisys.in-berlin.de - aka Ray at the IRC