HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: etxbyg@ufsa.ericsson.se (Jonas Bygden)
Subject: Re: Officials
Organization: Ericsson
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 12:31:28 GMT

petsch@sylt.informatik.uni-kl.de (Petsch Wolfram - PA Meybrink) writes:
>>
>>	The Three Point line
>>			- This is too close for pro basketball
>Yes for pro basketball. But the FIBA rules have to fit for every
>player. This means also for nonpros (like I am) and women small
>children ... 
Exactly, you can't always compare everything to the NBA. There are 
approximately 9 million basketball players in the world and of them
there are a couple of hundred playing in the NBA. Some of the rules
specific for the NBA are very good, for the NBA, but they wouldn't
work that good in minor leagues and for children. I'm not saying
that the FIBA rules should be the "global" rules but I'm saying that
the NBA rules definitely not should be the "global" rules.
>>	
>>	Being allowed to inbound the ball w/o the ref checking it 
On this point you're wrong, two years ago FIBA included the rule that
says that the ref should hand the ball to every player who are about
to inbound it, except after a field-goal.

>The NBA rules are made specific for professionals men players.
>Sometimes it is impossible to adopte this rules for nonpros or women
>or children. FIBA says 30 sek NBA 24 sek. 

>I am a nonpro player, referee, choach and sometimes official in
>turnaments here at my univerity.

/Jonas
--
**************************************************************************
***         Jonas Bygden         |  Phone:   +46 8 7191459             ***
***      Ericsson Telecom AB     |  Fax:     +46 8 7191330             ***
***   North American Operations  |  E-mail:  etxbyg@ufsa.ericsson.se   ***
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.misc
From: jont@harlqn.co.uk (Jon Thackray)
Subject: Re: UK basketball
Organization: Harlequin Limited, Cambridge, England
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 10:29:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.223347.9311@bradford.ac.uk> M.A.Pye@bradford.ac.uk (Michael Pye) writes:

   I was just wondering... Does anyone in the UK read this group ?
   I love basketball but over here in the UK it just isn't a popular
   sport. I get to see the American games on a satellite TV channel,
   but basketball coverage by regular TV is non-existent over here.

Yes, I read this group. I agree it's not as popular here as say
football, but there's a lot played at all levels. TV do cover it from
time to time. What is regular TV by the way? TV broadcast once a week,
seen on a smooth television or what? Sportsnight this Wednesday is
supposed to have something on basketball by the way.

   Does anyone know where I can get posters of teams or individuals
   (eg. Barkley, Jordan) this side of the atlantic ? Any other info
   regarding basketball in the UK will be greatly appreciated.

You can get posters and videos in sport shops, and probably others as
well. I saw about half a dozen basketball videos in a branch of
Olympus last weekend.

   Cheers

   Mike...
   University of Bradford
--

Jon Thackray                    jont@uk.co.harlqn       44 223 872522 (voice)
Harlequin Ltd.                  jgt1@uk.ac.cam.phx      44 223 872519 (fax)
Barrington Hall
Barrington
Cambridge CB2 5RG
England
From: m1wcc00@fed.frb.gov (Wayne C. Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.misc
Subject: Re: Fantasy Leagues
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:01:23 GMT
	<swleon01.721056998@starbase.spd.louisville.edu>
Organization: Federal Reserve Board
In-reply-to: swleon01@rigel.spd.louisville.edu's message of 6 Nov 92 13:36:38 GMT

In article <swleon01.721056998@starbase.spd.louisville.edu> swleon01@rigel.spd.louisville.edu (Stephen W. Leon) writes:


   In <1992Nov4.201017.11596@fcom.cc.utah.edu> achamber@cs.weber.edu (Tony Chamberlain) writes:

   >Hi my name is Tony Chamberlain, and I'm intetested in any fantasy leagues that
   >might be going on out there.  I've posted to rec.games.pbm (play by mail).
   >What i'm looking for is any league that uses email to play, has managers for the
   >teams and plays a season? 

   >Anyone know of any, or of any openings anywhere.  Even if a league is full, I'd
   >like to know about it, so as to get on a standby maybe(who knows, someone might
   >quit).


	   I don't know of any leagues, but I'd be interested also.

	   Stephen Leon

ME TOO!
Wayne.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.misc
From: bjornl@sics.se (Bj|rn Lisper)
Subject: Re: Officials
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<1992Nov5.145401.19608@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de>
	<1992Nov6.224502.19366@cci632.cci.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:05:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.224502.19366@cci632.cci.com> dxj@cci632.cci.com (Dennis
Joyce) writes:
>>
>>The NBA rules are made specific for professionals men players.
>>Sometimes it is impossible to adopte this rules for nonpros or women
>>or children. FIBA says 30 sek NBA 24 sek. 
....
>>		Gruss Wolfram

>Then why are the Pro leagues in Europe using FIBA rules? 

It is due to a difference between Europe and the US in the view of sports, I
believe. European leagues in whatever sport usually, with minor exceptions,
adhere to the international rules for that particular sport. In the US, pro
leagues will change the rules if they believe they will get a higher
attendance out of it. US pro soccer leagues used to change the soccer rules
quite drastically to increase the excitement of the game, whereas this would
be blasphemy in Europe. Another example is ice hockey where US/Canadian
rinks are narrower than the international standard. (Here I believe the
reason is rather tradition, however.)

A possible reason for this difference is that European pro teams participate
more in international tournaments (European cups etc.) which makes common
rules more of an issue. Another possible reason is that pro sport in the US
is seen very much as pure entertainment business where you do what it takes
to fill the arenas.

It should be noted that FIBA is quite active in revising the international
rules. Some rules that have been adopted from the pro basketball over the
years are the three-point line and bonus free throw if fouled while scoring.

Bjorn Lisper
From: cstila@uta.fi (Timo Laitinen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.misc
Subject: Bundesleague
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:23:55 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Tampere, Finland

Does anyone know 'anything' about Germany's mainleague.

-Timo
From: ichpc@Msu.oscs.montana.edu (Pedro de Oleiros)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.misc
Subject: Spanish League scores
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:53:16 GMT
Reply-To: ichpc@Msu.oscs.montana.edu (Pedro de Oleiros)
Organization: Montana State University


	Hi, guys:

	Some people have asked if I can post scores from the Spanish league. 
I only have the scores from last week. Joe sent them without any comments.
But, here they go, anyway.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Liga Espanyola

	Granollers 81 - Barcelona 84
	Andorra 75 - Valvi Girona 76
	Coren Orense 77 - Taugres Vitoria 71
	Ferrys Lliria 53 - Real Madrid 93
	Estudiantes 79 - Caja San Fernando 80
	Juver Murcia 76 - Grupo Libro 83
	OAR Ferrol 88 - Caceres 80
	Elosua Leon 74 - Argal Huesca 59
	Zaragoza 92 - TDK Manresa 66
	Breogan 77 - Joventut 88
	Unicaja 79 - Valencia 86

Clasificacion

	Joventut			8-1
	Real Madrid			8-1
	Valencia			8-1
	Estudiantes			7-1
	Barcelona			7-1
	Elosua Leon			7-2
	Taugres Vitoria			6-3
	Zaragoza			6-3
	Grupo Libro			5-4
	Valvi Girona			5-4
	Caja San Fernando		5-4
	OAR Ferrol			4-5
	Unicaja Malaga			4-5
	TDK Manresa			4-5
	Granollers			3-6
	Andorra				2-6
	Argal Huesca			2-7
	Caceres				2-7
	Coren Orense			2-7
	Ferrys Lliria			1-7
	Juver Murcia			1-8
	Breogan				0-9


Joe

--------------------------------------------------------------------

	If you want to send me e-mail, please, don't reply to my article.
Instead, use any of the e-mail addresses in my signature. I am posting from
my boss' account, because the news-server doesn't seem to work properly 
from mine. Thanks.

	Have fun.

	Pedro                  |   Non des a esquencemento
			       |   Da inxuria o rudo encono,
			       |   Desperta do teu sono,
			       |   Fogar de Breogan.

	ichpcpm@earth.oscs.montana.edu
	ichpcpm@trex.oscs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.misc
From: hujic@ecf.toronto.edu (HUJIC DAMIR)
Subject: European League Basketball Question (Zadar)
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 01:42:56 GMT


Could anyone tell me how the qualifying works for European League 
competition in the individual countries.  In particular, I am 
interested in hearing how Zadar, Croatia qualified, since one would
expect that Zagreb and Split would be the better contenders.

Thanks,
Damir
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.misc,soc.culture.spain
From: muino@nitrogen.oscs.montana.edu (Pedro Muino)
Subject: European League and Spanish League
Followup-To: ichpcpm@earth.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:39:05 GMT


	Hello, everybody:
	
	here are the scores from this weekend in the Spanish league and the
ones from last Thursday in the European League.

	Enjoy

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Liga Espanyola:

	Real M - Grupo Libro 62 [Joe forgot the score, but Real Madrid won]
	Taugres 91 - Joventut 92
	Valvi 68 - Zaragoza 57
	Estudiantes 74 - Barcelona 87
	Elosua 92 - Valencia 88
	Argal Huesca 88 - Granollers 69
	TDK Manresa 89 - Unicaja 71
	Caceres 52 - Andorra 54
	Ferrys 95 - Breogan 96
	Juver 82 - Coren 71
	C. San Fernando 98 - OAR Ferrol 74

Clasificacion


	Joventut 	9-1
	Real Madrid	9-1
	Elosua		8-2
	Barcelona	8-2
	Valencia	8-2
	Estudiantes	7-2
	Valvi		6-4
	Taugres		6-4
	Zaragoza	6-4
	C.S. Fernando	6-4
	grupo Libro	5-5
	TDK Manresa	5-5
	OAR Ferrol	4-6
	Andorra		4-6
	Unicaja		4-6
	Argal huesca	3-7
	Granollers	3-7
	Juver		2-8
	Caceres		2-8
	Coren		2-8
	Ferrys		1-8
	Breogan		1-9


European League

Last Thursday's games had the following scores:

Group A
	Joventut Badalona 86 - Cibona Zagreb 82
	PAOK Thesalonica 647 - Limoges 57
	Bolonia 71 - Scavolini Pesaro 73

Group B
	Benetton Treviso 65 - R. Madrid 66
	Leverkusen 66 - Olympiakos 63
	Malinas 93 - Zadar 75
	Estudiantes 82 - Pau-Orthez 84

Standings after 2 games:

	Group A

		Scavolini	2-0
		Cibona		1-1
		PAOK		1-1
		Joventut	1-1
		Maccabi		1-0
		Bologna		0-2
		Limoges		0-1

	Group B
		Pau Orthez	2-0
		Real Madrid	2-0
		Malinas		1-1
		Olympiakos	1-1
		Treviso		1-1
		Leverkusen	1-1
		Estudiantes	0-2
		Zadar		0-2

Joe

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

	See you next time


	Pedro
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.misc
Subject: Re: Officials
From: baragry@latcs1.lat.OZ.AU (Jason M Baragry)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:52:01 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <1992Nov4.142613.6067@cci632.cci.com>, dxj@cci632.cci.com (Dennis Joyce) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct30.144653.1632@ericsson.se> etxbyg@ufsa.ericsson.se writes:

|> The question I have is:
|> 
|> Why doesn't the rest of the world use our rules (US/NBA) rules? I mean, we 
|> invented the game and have been playing it a heck of a lot longer than
|> the rest of the world. Why is that the US should switch rules?
|> 
[...]
|> 	
|> 
|> These are just my opinions...
|> 
|> 
|> Well what are your thoughts?

	As far as I can remember from my basketball refereeing days. FIBA is
the world governing body of basketball rules. These rules are enforced at the
Olympics, World Champs, Intl Tournies.

	The NBA decided that the style of play that these rules lead to was
was not "crowd-pleasing" enough (I'm sure someone here will correct me if
I'm wrong). The rules allowed zone-defense which clogged up the game and
slowed it down, so zone defenses were made illegal. This opened up the game
and made for exciting one-on-one basketball and the allowed super-stars
to show of their individual talent more easily. I would presume that the
extension of the 3-point line was to promote the 1-on-1 game as well, by
making it less attractive to simply sink 3's with a high FG %.

	Television has also had an effect on the rules. TV timeouts have
been introduced, but I don't know why we have 12 min quarters instead of
halves. Perhaps it is to provide more breaks in the game for television ads?

	With the advent of 12 min 1/4s came the need for 6 personal fouls
instead of 5. (that was the reason for it here in Oz). 

	I am not to sure about some of the other rule differences, like numbers.
In the FIBA rules, numbers go from:
	4-15, 20-25, 30-35, 40-45, 50-55. 
Numbers 0-3 were ruled out because they represented official rule symbols 
(1 point, 2 points, 3-seconds, 00 was used as a number for singlets whose
numbers are unreadable or have come off). Also, in FIBA competitions only the
numbers 4-15 can be used by players (you can check this on your videos of any
Dream Team game).

	In college, the 3-point line was brought forward to make it more
advantageous to shoot from the perimeter instead of thumping it inside
constantly and clogging up the key-way. I don't know why college ball has the
posession rule (could someone explain to me why college does not have jump
balls).

	Finally, the other difference I noticed was when my sister was playing
against american high-school teams and the rules did not include the cross-court
rule (I think you guys call it "over and back"). This seemed to vary from state
to state as did the 3-second rule. Any reason for this ???


Anyway, that's some of the differences in the rules.


Jas

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.misc
From: torii@okuma.nuem.nagoya-u.ac.jp (Akihiro Torii)
Subject: Jumbo league in Korea
Organization: Okuma Lab., Dept. of Elec. Mec. Eng., Nagoya Uni .
Distribution: rec
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:51:20 GMT


Does anyone in Korea read this news group ? I want to know the 
schedule of the Jumbo League held in Korea. But I've heard games
in the Jumbo League are very interesting. So I want to know
about it.
--
:::   Akihiro Torii (E-mail:torii@okuma.nuem.nagoya-u.ac.jp)
:::   Tel:+81 52 781 5111 ext:2777 (Nagoya Univ.)
:::   Fax:+81 52 783 1183
From: swleon01@rigel.spd.louisville.edu (Stephen W. Leon)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.misc
Subject: Re: Fantasy Leagues
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:36:38 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In <1992Nov4.201017.11596@fcom.cc.utah.edu> achamber@cs.weber.edu (Tony Chamberlain) writes:

>Hi my name is Tony Chamberlain, and I'm intetested in any fantasy leagues that
>might be going on out there.  I've posted to rec.games.pbm (play by mail).
>What i'm looking for is any league that uses email to play, has managers for the
>teams and plays a season? 

>Anyone know of any, or of any openings anywhere.  Even if a league is full, I'd
>like to know about it, so as to get on a standby maybe(who knows, someone might
>quit).


	I don't know of any leagues, but I'd be interested also.

	Stephen Leon
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.misc
From: dxj@cci632.cci.com (Dennis Joyce)
Subject: Re: Officials
Organization: [Computer Consoles, Inc., Rochester, NY
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:45:02 GMT

>
>The NBA rules are made specific for professionals men players.
>Sometimes it is impossible to adopte this rules for nonpros or women
>or children. FIBA says 30 sek NBA 24 sek. 
>
>I am a nonpro player, referee, choach and sometimes official in
>turnaments here at my univerity.
>
>		Gruss Wolfram

Then why are the Pro leagues in Europe using FIBA rules? 
 
							Dennis J.

Lines: 20
Date: Wed,  4 Nov 92 21:28:51 MST
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.misc
Subject: Re: *** HOW TO IMPROVE VERTICAL? ***
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah
From: jhak@sofya.math.byu.edu (Justin Hakanson)

>You can also try some of the old-fashoned ways:
>
>a) play a hell of a lot of basketball or any sport that involves jumping.
>The more you jump, the more you excercise the muscles that improve
>your jumping ability. This will also help your form and timing since
>they also contribute to your vertical.
>
>b) do leg excercises such as calf raises and squats. Squats will excercise
>your Quads and and your butt muscles. These muscles generate the
>upward momentum of your body but it's the calves that actually get
>you airborne.  Thus the calves are most important but don't neglect
>the other muscles in your legs.

Couldn't you just duct-tape blocks of wood to the bottom of your feet?
That'd be a lot cheaper.  No traction, but cheaper...
-- 
 ____________________________________   ____________________________________
/                                    \ /                                    \
| "My mistress' eyes are nothing like | Justin Hakanson - jhak@math.byu.edu |
|    the sun." William Shakespeare    |                                     |
From: gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: ACC Early Leavers (was: Re: A Look Ahead at the ACC: UNC
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:16:09 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

In article <1992Nov5.170326.27001@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> costley@solo.eng.hou.compaq.com (Brett Costley) writes:
>In article <Bx94B1.8Hu@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:
>>trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH) writes:
>>>In article <Bx7DHI.LoA@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:
>>>>>TRIVIA QUESTION: Name the four UNC players who went pro early.
>>>>	Here's my shot:  Michael Jordan, James Worthy, JR Reid, and Bob McAdoo.
>>
>>>Right on target.  Now I'll REALLY be impressed if you can name all of the other
>>>ACC players who left school early to go pro.  Hint: there are 13 more, 5 of
>>>whom are the Maryland players that I mentioned in an earlier post.
>>
>>	OK... let's see... I can think of a few:
>>	(mostly fairly recent)
>>
>>	Wake Forest:  Kenny Green
>>	NC State: Chris Washburn, Charles Shackleford
>
>Georgia Tech: Dennis Scott (Jr) and Kenny Anderson (So)

	Does Olden Polynice count?

--
gharris@jade.tufts.edu          
George W. Harris              	"He'd kill us if he had the chance."  
Dept. of Mathematics            
Tufts University              			The Conversation  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: rosesha@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Sharon E Rose)
Subject: Syracuse fan needed
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:28:48 GMT

I am here in Baltimore in the midst of ACC country, and I am a
true-to-the-bone Syracuse fan.  I have had problems in the past
finding detailed information on their games in the papers around
here, and especially this year with the sanctions...well...

I was wondering if any of you SU fans out there whose hearts bleed
orange would be willing to send me results, as well as team gossip
and all relevant info about the buzz in Syracuse.  I did this last
year and it worked out well (unfortunately, my liason graduated).
Thanks in advance!!!!

					-Shari

				(rosesha@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: larry@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Pac-10 Tourney (Was: Re: First Anti-CBS comment of the season (was: Re: Pac-10 Expansion))
Date: 8 Nov 92 19:27:57 GMT
Reply-To: larry@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Department of Chemistry, UCLA

In article <25913@optima.cs.arizona.edu>,  (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>In article <XJAM.92Nov4161334@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU>, (The Crossjammer) writes:
>> Meanwhile, the !!PAC-10!! actually managed to make the championship game
>> quite boring. 
>
>Face it - the timing sucked. They decided to have the tourney at a time
>when Arizona was just about unbeatable in Pac-10 play. I believe
>the Cats were the only team to win the damn thing right? And the
>only place they could get any kind of crowd was in Arizona so they
>held it in the state 2-3 times I think - had it been implemented in
>a season like the one we are likely to see when the Pac-10, though
>weak, is probably more competitive top to bottom than it has been
>for some time I think it might have been more of a hit with the fans.

  Actually, UCLA won the very first incarnation of the Pac-10 
tournament, when it was held at Pauley Pavillion.  I'm 
sure you all remember it, it was the one where the
final game of the tournament took place after the announcement
deadline for the NCAA tourney, so the tournament committee was forced
to take Washington, a terrible team that year, just on the off-chance
they beat Reggie Miller and the Booins.  This inspired the current
rule where if a conference tournament game takes place after the
announcement deadline then the team which might not make it unless
they get the automatic bid will replace another team from the same 
conference, regardless of how deserving the replaced team is.  
  The reason it was only held in Arizona I think had more to do
with stadium capacity than not being able to get a crowd in 
some years.  For example, in '89 the Cardinal beat the Cats
when Zona came to Maples.  Had the tourney been held at Maples
Pavillion, I think Stanford could have won it, and packed the
place to boot.  However, Maples only holds about 6500, so it
was probably never considered.  
  (I also had the dubious distinction of being the only current 
Stanford student in the Stanford rooting section of that first
Pac-10 tournament.)

-Lec Luthor
 Criminal Genius and Cardinal Fan Extraordinaire  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day)
Subject: Re: UNC, Duke, and ACC Trivia
Reply-To: oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day)
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:44:59 GMT


Rob Clough sez :

> It took 20 years, since it happened in 1974.  Then they finished last or
> tied for last for four years in a row. The coach in 1974 is one Nate 
> McGeachy,

Jim Kirkman sez :

> Not to be picky but wasn't the man's name Neal McGeahy  and didn't he end
> up as an assistant at Wake or something like that?

But both are wrong, as it is Neill McGeachy, who sucked his way
to a 10-16 record (.385 pct).  This record left NC State and UNC
as the only ACC schools with all coaches (since inception, and 
excluding FSU) to have winning records during their tenure.

--
************** "Frank, shut up and push the button" **************
Orin Day, Code 664.1                    oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov
Hughes STX/NASA       GSFC Laboratory for High Energy Astrophysics
*******"Think that this is NASA's opinion?   NO, NO, NO!!!" ******
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Pac-10 Tourney (Was: Re: First Anti-CBS comment of the season (was: Re: Pac-10 Expansion))
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:52:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <XJAM.92Nov4161334@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU>, xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (The Crossjammer) writes:
> Meanwhile, the !!PAC-10!! actually managed to make the championship game
> quite boring. 

Face it - the timing sucked. They decided to have the tourney at a time
when Arizona was just about unbeatable in Pac-10 play. I believe
the Cats were the only team to win the damn thing right? And the
only place they could get any kind of crowd was in Arizona so they
held it in the state 2-3 times I think - had it been implemented in
a season like the one we are likely to see when the Pac-10, though
weak, is probably more competitive top to bottom than it has been
for some time I think it might have been more of a hit with the fans.



			gln



Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college