HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: Any Humanities Grads out there?
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 06:26:40 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Originator: clin@erebor.eng.umd.edu


In article <1992Apr16.013005.17837@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>, callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan) writes:
>ogil@ellis.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie) writes:
>
>>There is more terminology
>>involved, and more mathematics (unless you are taking a course in
>>quantitative history), which means that those who haven't been
>>appropriately socialized can't participate.  
>
>Gosh, and here I thought it was those who *have* been properly socialized
>who couldn't participate in engineering courses.  :-)
>
>(No flames, please.  I'm a geek, and I'm ALLOWED!)
>

   How dare you perpetrate this kind of engineering stereotyping?
Making us seem like the socially inept, pocket protector wearing,
HP-calculator toting, UNIX shell script hacking, glasses wearing (with duct
tape holding the middle part together), mechanical pencil writing
(0.5mm lead, mind you), engineering paper using (the ones that
cost mucho bucks per packet of 70), hormonally imbalanced oglers 
(staring at the only three girls in all of engineering no matter what they
look like) dweeboids that we are? What makes you think we can't 
like socialize (fer sure), huh, huh, huh?


 

   ..... just kidding.  I am perfectly socially adjusted.  Excuse
me while I go debug some code.

p.s. Paul, log out of yo' computer.  It doesn't take it that much time
to startup, does it?

--
   ______    __    __   ___  ____
  / ____ \  |  |  |__| |   \ |  |    Charles Lin
 | /    \_| |  |   __  |    \|  |    e-mail: clin@eng.umd.edu
 | |        |  |  |  | |  |\    |   
 | |     _  |  |  |__| |__| \___|    University of Maryland
 | \____/ | |  |____                 "I hate big sigs." -- Moo
  \______/  \_______|
From: noah@cs.washington.edu (Rick Noah Zucker)
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
Subject: Re: Too many scientists and engineers in US!!!
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:52:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: beaver.1992Apr13.165201.7544
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Apr9.213329.13286@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> you write:
>In article <1992Apr9.191402.8686@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> gjohn@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (George H. John) writes:
>>They said there is now such a surplus of
>>scientists and engineers that unemployment rates in some disciplines
>>far exceed those for the country as a whole and typical salaries for
>>beginning Ph.D.'s in many fields are $18,000 to $25,000.
> ^^^^^^^^^            ^^^^
>If "beginning PhD" means the first job after receipt of degree,
>then it includes a lot of post-docs, fellows, lecturers, and
>assistant profs. at small schools.  These have always been low-paying
>jobs.  Some professions traditionally start out very low, but
>increase salary with experience.

	The point here is two-fold.  First, that there was supposedly such
a demand for scientists and engineers, and that they are being paid so
little.  One does not expect people who are in demand to be paid so little.
And despite what the previous poster said, the salaries do not increase
that rapidly or that much, especially if you have to do two or three post-
docs, as some fields require.  Second, post-docs tend to occur in fields
where there are too many Ph.D.s.  That is why there have not been many
post-docs in computer science (until now).  There really are too many
scientists (at least for the number of paying jobs).

						    Rick Zucker
						    noah@cs.washington.edu
From: masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola)
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
Subject: Publishing and/or perishing
Keywords: How much is enough?
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:16:00 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


I recently spoke to a computer science professor from an Ivy League
school, who told me that the computer science department at that
school wouldn't even consider hiring anyone as an assistant professor
unless they had at least six papers.

What I'd like to know is, is this the case at any good research
school? If so, it seems to me that such an attitude will result in a
lot of LPU papers, from people who are trying to find jobs.

Comments?

- Steve (masticol@cs.rutgers.edu).
From: ehoward@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Eric Howard)
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
Subject: Folks going to Op Sci Center at U. Arizona
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:34:17 GMT
Distribution: soc.college.grad
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin


I am looking for graduates (and anyone else) who is going to start graduate
school at the Optical Science Center at U. Arizona (Tucson) in Fall '92.

If anyone reads this who is going there, let me know !!

My name is Eric Howard, and I'm graduating from U. Texas (Austin) with a
B.S. in Physics.  ehoward@flubber.cc.utexas.edu is the email address.

--

73's de N5RUX
------------
| Nd:YAG   #|----------------------------------\
------------                                   |
            Eric Howard at University of Texas |
	      ehoward@flubber.cc.utexas.edu    |
               				       |	
 SNAP -   CRACKLE -  POP  {}------------------ /
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
From: bloom@ee.WPI.EDU (Jeffrey A Bloom)
Subject: Hospitals near Davis,Purdue,CMU,RPI,Irvine
Originator: bloom@ee
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:21:33 GMT


My fiancee is an Emergency Room Nurse in a Trauma Center.
While I am considering the grad schools mentioned in the 
subject, I need to know what kind of hospitals are in the 
local areas to figure out if there will be job opportunities 
for her.

If anyone can give me some information about hospitals near
U.C. Davis, U.C. Irvine, Purdue, CMU, or RPI, I would appreciate
it.  Thanks.

E-mail to bloom@ee.wpi.edu

-Jeffrey

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey A Bloom				bloom@ee.wpi.edu
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
E.E. Department
100 Institute Rd.			wk. (508) 831-5092
Worcester, MA 01609	

"The tires are the things on the car that make contact with Road."
                                                            -Phish
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
From: mark@kraken.ucsd.edu (Mark Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
Subject: Liberal Arts
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:43:16 GMT
Organization: W.A.S.T.E.

The liberal arts in medieval studies were
 grammar, rhetoric, logic --lower division
and
 music, arithmetic, geometry, and astronomy -- upper division

I find it sad that mathematics and the natural sciences, are
excluded from many peoples common usage of the term "liberal
arts".  Study in these fields is not by default professional 
or vocational training.

mark
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
From: jsun@torag.guild.org (John Sun)
Subject: gradinfo address for U Oregon, Hawaii
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 03:12:37 GMT
Organization: Torag Public Access Unix, Toronto
Distribution: na


Hi.
 
Can anyone give me the graduate information email address for
the universities of Oregon (there must be more than one university
in Oregon) and Hawaii?  I'm referring to one of those automatic
information servers.

Thanks,
john sun
jsun@torag.guild.org
jsun@torolab5.vnet.ibm.com

"Ignorance is strength."   -  an old TA of mine.

Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
From: ac05@sol.acs.unt.edu (Bhattacharya Sumangala)
Subject: Re: Any Humanities Grads out there?
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:49:45 GMT

clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) -- among others -- writes:


>   I personally wouldn't use the word easier.  Maybe more certain.  One
>advantage and drawback of LA courses is that there is no right answer.
>Often, it's how well you argue the point.  I would hope that is the
>main judging point, but it sometimes isn't.  My guess is that there
>are certain fields that could give rise (just to be specific, something
>like women's studies or various ethnic -- American -- studies) to situations
>where opinions matter and not how well some opinion is defended.  So,
>in a women's studies course, it may not be such a good idea to say
>that we ought to increase male subjugation of women.  No matter how
>well defended this position might be, the prof. may just decide it's
>a wrong opinion and downgrade for that.

>   Nevertheless, unless you get into some really abstruse topic,
>you could probably BS your way through a paper, and while there
>are plenty of creative ways to do that in engineering, it's easier
>to catch.

My original question was about prejudice against humanities majors/fields
from scientists & engineers.  I rest my case.

>   I guess waht I'm saying is that engineering reasoning (math, sciences)
>tends to be less intuitive than reasoning in LA.  And because there are
>supposed to be right answers, then you must a lot more sure of your
>answer in engineering courses.  But then they give lots of partial credit,
>so....

While I agree with you that much of scientific reasoning can be non-intuitive,
this does not necessarily make it more taxing for the intellect.  My point
was not to establish which is, in some sense, "superior"; rather, I hoped
that both can and should be regarded equally.  This, however, is not the case.
Since many of the posts agree that more and more humanities specialists are
using technology in their fields, I must ask again why scientists & engineers
feel that they must downplay the importance of humanities?

[much deleted, as someone else said, but not the big sig]
>--
>   ______    __    __   ___  ____
>  / ____ \  |  |  |__| |   \ |  |    Charles Lin
> | /    \_| |  |   __  |    \|  |    e-mail: clin@eng.umd.edu
> | |        |  |  |  | |  |\    |   
> | |     _  |  |  |__| |__| \___|    University of Maryland
> | \____/ | |  |____                 "I hate big sigs." -- Moo
>  \______/  \_______|

I picked your post because it seemed representative of the opinions
expressed, not out of any particular malice aforethought towards you.
No offence, I hope?

Sumangala Bhattacharya
ac05@sol.acs.unt.edu

Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: Any Humanities Grads out there?
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 05:31:09 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Originator: clin@erebor.eng.umd.edu


In article <1992Apr16.010412.17316@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu>, cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Cary Timar) writes:
>
>There are a number of people who are good in two fields, and at some point
>need to choose between them.  Most decide that, all else being equal, they
>will pursue the subject that is more likely to provide a secure job and a
>higher income.  This is normally the more technical/applied of the two
>fields.
>
>This argument (which I can support only by anecdotal evidence) would
>explain why there are more people in technical fields with interests and
>skills in humanities, than there are people in humanities with interests
>and skills in technical fields.  (Now, if the people entering humanities
>are those who are skilled in those, but not highly skilled in math and
>science, would this not tend to cause their subjects to shy away from
>mathematical methods to a greater degree than otherwise?)

   Some fields do seem to require some sort of math fopr doctoral degrees.
They tend to be in the social sciences and not strictly the humanities.
Economics is the main field though it creeps into psychology, political
science, psychology, etc.  Statisics seems to be the branch of math 
used most often.

--
   ______    __    __   ___  ____
  / ____ \  |  |  |__| |   \ |  |    Charles Lin
 | /    \_| |  |   __  |    \|  |    e-mail: clin@eng.umd.edu
 | |        |  |  |  | |  |\    |   
 | |     _  |  |  |__| |__| \___|    University of Maryland
 | \____/ | |  |____                 "I hate big sigs." -- Moo
  \______/  \_______|
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
From: yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu (Brian Yamauchi)
Subject: Sciences, Humanities, and Values (was:Any Humanities Grads out there?)
Organization: University of Rochester
	<1992Apr13.213346.4511@ra.msstate.edu>
	<1992Apr14.021523.16212@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu> <70381@ut-emx.uucp>
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:25:36

In article <70381@ut-emx.uucp> hulsey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Diana Hulsey) writes:

>Now, the issue that I come across which is more troublesome than this, is 
>the disrespect for the humanities as a meaningful thing to do.  "Why do you
>want to do classics?" is the question I continually hear,  mostly from
>Engineers who have no great love for what they are doing, and only see a
>secure job at the end of their travails.  And I say, in the final analysis,
>I may not have made as much money, my career may not be as smooth, but hell,
>I am doing what I want to do, and what interests me.  I think that this is
>a real point of misunderstanding between humanities and sciences.

I think this is the critical point which is missing from all of the
debate over the relative importance of the sciences and the
humanities.  All values are subjective.  Nothing is intrinsically
important -- things have to be important _to_ someone.

So, arguing over the relative importance of exploring space, teaching
literature, and feeding the hungry is pointless.  The one which you
feel is the most or least important will depend on your own particular
set of personal values.  The very idea of attempting to quantify and
compare the motivations associated with exploring the final frontier,
illuminating the human condition, and easing the suffering of others
strikes me as being absurd.  Either you feel these emotions or you
don't and arguing that others should feel likewise is, in all
likehood, a futile effort.

In my opinion, the most important thing is do be doing what you really
want to do.  If this means writing the Great American Novel, then do
_that_; if it means building single-stage-to-orbit launch vehicles,
then do _that_.  I think the world could use more great literature,
more affordable launchers, and fewer people who have trapped
themselves into jobs that they hate.
--
_______________________________________________________________________________

Brian Yamauchi				Robotics Applications Development
					Boeing Aerospace Operations
yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu		Kennedy Space Center
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: ogil@ellis.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie)
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
Subject: Re: Any Humanities Grads out there?
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:33:49 GMT
Reply-To: ogil@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Morris Fishbein Center for the History of Science and Medicine

In article <1992Apr13.191754.21615@colorado.edu> ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.171003.18664@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan) writes:
>> [quoted material deleted--BWO]
>>
>>Maybe not boast, but I've heard plenty of engineering students claim that
>>literature or the arts are unimportant.  Also, there's certainly a prejudice
>>that liberal arts majors are somehow intrinsically easier than technical 
>>majors.
>
>Actually, I think they are harder. I'm an electrical eng., but I took quite
>a few LA courses, and not the easy engineering ones either, I mean the
>toughest ones. And studying a detailed history of the reformation, or
>the works of Shakespear, no matter in what depth, is a hell of a lot easier
>then learning Foruier transforms!!

Did Mr. Hartnett actually mean to say that liberal arts are _easier_
than technical subjects?  The rest of his reply seems to indicate
that, but his first sentence seems to indicate that they (referring,
of course, to "liberal arts majors," are harder.  It certainly seems
like Rhetoric, one of the seven liberal arts of the Middle Ages, is
beyond his grasp, unless he is borrowing the deconstructionists'
technique of deliberately confusing his readers.

Since I bothered to respond to this article, I will also point out
that "Shakespeare" and "Fourier" are misspelled (though the latter
could simply be a typo).  Followups on this paragraph to
alt.flame.spelling, please.

And at the University of Chicago, Fourier transforms are (or were, six
years ago) taught in Freshman honors physics.


-- 
Brian W. Ogilvie           "Find a need and fool it!"
b-ogilvie@uchicago.edu              --Zippy the Pinhead
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
From: callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan)
Subject: Re: Any Humanities Grads out there?
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 01:30:05 GMT

ogil@ellis.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie) writes:

>There is more terminology
>involved, and more mathematics (unless you are taking a course in
>quantitative history), which means that those who haven't been
>appropriately socialized can't participate.  

Gosh, and here I thought it was those who *have* been properly socialized
who couldn't participate in engineering courses.  :-)

(No flames, please.  I'm a geek, and I'm ALLOWED!)

--
Paul Callahan       | "... the 'spineless prickly pear' ... this long-neglected 
callahan@cs.jhu.edu | gift of nature, which now promises to be of as great or 
                    | even greater value to the human race than the discovery 
BIFF WHERE ARE YOU? | of steam."                      -- Luther Burbank, 1911
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
From: callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan)
Subject: Re: Any Humanities Grads out there?
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:10:03 GMT

kyee@bnlux1.bnl.gov (kenton yee) writes:

>  While a large segment of the scientific/technical population are
>not as "liberally" educated as they should be, I don't think too
>many techies would boast to being ignorant of lit or the arts.  So
>it seems the prejudice from the humanities is not returned.

Maybe not boast, but I've heard plenty of engineering students claim that
literature or the arts are unimportant.  Also, there's certainly a prejudice
that liberal arts majors are somehow intrinsically easier than technical majors.

--
Paul Callahan       | "... the 'spineless prickly pear' ... this long-neglected 
callahan@cs.jhu.edu | gift of nature, which now promises to be of as great or 
                    | even greater value to the human race than the discovery 
BIFF WHERE ARE YOU? | of steam."                      -- Luther Burbank, 1911
From: rickertj@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (John Rickert)
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
Subject: Re: Any Humanities Grads out there?
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:26:13 GMT
Reply-To: rickertj@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu.UUCP (John Rickert)
Organization: Mathematics, Vanderbilt University, Nashville

In article <1992Apr15.234444.27406@colorado.edu>
ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:

>Studying literature (for example) is all well and good, but a million
>people studying literature is not going to feed any starving people or
>launch anybody into space.

   The fact that people are starving is tragic and I will not comment
further on it.  But in reply to the second part, I could say, "Lauching
people into space isn't going to teach anyone Homer."  Why is putting a
few specially chosen astronauts in space more important or better than
teaching generations of people about literature?  
  
   Why do we want to put people into space, anyway?    

>[deletions] But I do think that most engineers spend their lives building
>stuff, creating things that others will use, whereas most humanities people
>simply study the creations of a (relatively few) great contributors, and
>really do not create anything themselves which others will see.

   What do you mean by "create"?  Does an engineer really "create" a
building?  On the contrary, I suspect the typical engineer follows
specifications slavishly and then, if there is any room left, some
inventiveness or originality comes in.  And that structure will
eventually fall to ruin, without a doubt.  Ideas are more permanent.

   Moreover, a distinction should be made between material and
non-material goods.  Only so many people can be in a building or on a
bridge at a given time, since there is only so much to go around.  The
goods the humanities profess to bring are different, however.  They are
not nearly so limited.  If I take the trouble to learn some Latin, it
doesn't stop anyone else from doing so.  It's a good that is not
diminished by being enjoyed.  And so, even teaching the humanities and
imparting them to others is good, even if the teacher is not especially
"creative." 

   

John Rickert					    Sunt lacrimae rerum, et
rickertj@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu		    mentem mortalia tangunt.
								-- Vergil
From: hulsey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Diana Hulsey)
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
Subject: Re: Any Humanities Grads out there?
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:51:21 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

While I would hesititate to say that humanities is esier than the sciences,
I would like to reiterate something that has been said already, I think,
namely the distinction that for the most part the humanities require a 
broad base of knowledge and are easy to explain to a lay person, while in the 
sciences, knew knowlege is built upon the last thing you learned (there must be
a better word for this) and so it is difficult to explain to a layperson.

Also, they way higher education works, at least in the US, most beginning level
science courses are designed to weed out a certain percentage, whereas
many humanities classes that are even upper level courses are open to anyone
who is interested.

These facts contribute to the impression that science is more rigorous than 
humanities, and as a result, many bright young people who seek to do the most
with their intellects might consider a science rather than the humanities,
just for the challenge and prestige they percieve that it implies.

Now, the issue that I come across which is more troublesome than this, is 
the disrespect for the humanities as a meaningful thing to do.  "Why do you
want to do classics?" is the question I continually hear,  mostly from
Engineers who have no great love for what they are doing, and only see a
secure job at the end of their travails.  And I say, in the final analysis,
I may not have made as much money, my career may not be as smooth, but hell,
I am doing what I want to do, and what interests me.  I think that this is
a real point of misunderstanding between humanities and sciences.

-Diana Hulsey

Xref: sparky soc.college.grad:1012 soc.college.gradinfo:680
From: mef@klinzhai.rutgers.edu (Marc E. Fiuczynski)
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad,soc.college.gradinfo
Subject: Re: CS Grad School E-mail list
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:18:56 GMT
Followup-To: soc.college.grad
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

The CS gradschool email list is posted on soc.college.gradinfo.

Marc
-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
Marc E. Fiuczynski		\\  dorm: (908) 878-2088   home: (609) 683-4416
mef@klinzhai.rutgers.edu  	//  UUCP: {backbone}!rutgers!cs.rutgers.edu!mef
From: kpm4@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
Subject: leaving Boston for the summer?
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:57:16 GMT
Organization: University of Scranton

I think there may be a seperate group for requests like this, but I
couldn't find it, so please help if you can:

I'm on desperate need of a *relatively inexpensive* studio apartment to
sublet in BOSTON for the summer months, particularly in the Back Bay,
Beacon Hill, or Brookline areas.

Soc.college seemed like the place to ask seeing as how it's tough to swing
a dead cat in Boston without hitting a college student. [No offense to
cat-addicts intended]

So if you have a place to let for the summer, or if you know someone who
does, could you please E-MAIL me directly.

I'd really appreciate any info you can give me.  Thanks in advance!

Kevin Myers

kpm4@jaguar.uofs.edu