HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steel@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (JLE)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Israel must NOT return the "garbage"
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:56:03 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1993Jan11.164806.10177@sarah.albany.edu> mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger) writes:
>In article <1ir5tfINN25n@life.ai.mit.edu> steel@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (JLE) writes:
>
>Steel? Doesn't "Stalin" translate to that?

I guess thisis the first time I heard that, may be.
But does Hillel or Hayim translate to Hitler?  :)

jle
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: math4807@nexus.yorku.ca (Naomi Werner)
Subject: Toronto SCJ gathering
Originator: math4807@nexus.yorku.ca
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 06:30:13 GMT

Hello All,

Warren Burstein will be in Toronto the weekend of January 17.  Are 
any of the Toronto SCJ readers interested in getting together
a) to meet each other
b) to meet Warren?


Please let me know if you are interested.

Naomi Werner

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: Murray Kahl <kahl@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>
Subject: Khanukah
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <Murray Kahl <kahl@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:41:28 GMT

From: afrydman@granpa.enet.dec.com (Avi Frydman) 
Subject: How Do You Spell (C)Han(n)uk(k)a(h) in English? 
 
In article <1992Dec30.104104.5962@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, drukier@cast0.ast.cam.ac.uk (Gordon Drukier) writes... 
>In article <cF4kwB4w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu  
(Todd J. Dicker) writes: 
  Anyone for a side-thread to see how many variant spellings we 
>can come up with? Let's see... 
>  
>Chanucah 
>Chanukah 
>Hannukah 
>Chanuka 
>  
 
Hanukka 
Hanukah 
Chanukah 
Hanukah 
 
There aren't ANY variant spellings as this is a transliteration and as 
such all spellings are ALMOST correct. The reason that all are almost 
"correct" is that the printer's convention for the sound corresponding 
to "chet" is an H with a dot under it, and that doesn't exist in ASCII. 
This prevents "Chanuka," for example, from being pronounced as if you 
were saying choo choo train.
The term for this is a paleo fricative and is hard for the native 
American speaker to pronounce; however, you do find the same phoneme 
in "The Loch Ness Monster," the composer "Bach," and other words. The 
term fricative refers to friction at the rear of the mouth while 
making the sound.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe)
Subject: Torah is the center of every Jew? / Seems To Be So
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:57:14 GMT

In article <abramwtz-110193135937@citrine14.bucknell.edu> abramwtz@coral.bucknell (Jon Abramowitz) writes:
>In article <1993Jan10.061307.19977@cis.ohio-state.edu>,
>khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin) wrote:
> 
>
>> Torah is not the center of Orthodoxy. Torah is the center of every Jew: Reform,
>> Conservative, Orthodox, whatever. I am Orthodox, but if I were Reform or 
>> Conservative I would be insulted by this. Torah is something all Jews live
>> by whatever your interpretaion of it is.
>
>I must disagree.  I am Conservative and Torah is certainly at the center
>for me.  For one, I study psychology and believe that the mind and brain
>are the same thing.  I believe in evolution.  But, I am a practicing Jew
>and celebrate most of the holidays.  When taking part in Jewish customs, I
>am not intentionally doing it because of Torah (how could I if I havn't
>devoted my life to understanding it like more religious people have.
> 
>
>Jon A.

For a student of psychology, you have made an interesting Fruedian slip
here.  What you consciously wished to say was that "Torah is certainly
not at the center for me."  But the nefesh spoke first.  :-)

-- Chris Metcalfe

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)
Subject: Re: Lyrics to Hatikva
Reply-To: aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 04:30:00 GMT


In a previous article, avi@seal.imagen.com (avi zelmanov) says:

>>In article 8347@news.ysu.edu, aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller) writes:

>>]Ha-tik-vah sh'not al-pa-yim--          Two thousand years we cherish them --

>As well, the word "bat" in the hebrew source was omitted (in "Ha-tik-vah 
>sh'not al-pa-yim" shout be "Ha-tik-vah bat sh'not al-pa-yim").


The word "bat" was not in the version provided by The Embassy of Israel,
Washington, DC, 1979.  "The Story of Israel  written and drawn by
Ranan Lurie"


-- 
       No nation can survive without pride in its traditions.
       Marlene J. Miller   aa324@yfn.ysu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Kahane's philosophy
Organization: ITEX, Jerusalem, Israel
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:53:01 GMT

In <1993Jan4.062659.24889@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

wb: Perhaps someone might think that Binyanin actually intends what he
wb: says.  What is to prevent this from happening?  What happened to Avot
wb: 1:11?

dm: 	So what?  That person would still be responsible for his actions,
dm: unless he was so mentally unfit as to require being committed.
dm: However, if this was the case than even had Binyamin not made the
dm: statement nothing much would have changed as I previously pointed
dm: out.

Avot 1:11 as I understand it means that a scholar ought to be careful
about what he says, because people might take him literally.  While
Avot is not halacha, its advice ought to be treated with more respect
than "so what?"

dm:	As for Binyamin personally, making those statements is certainly a
dm:lot healthier than actually acting them out.
 
me: Well yes, actions that simply run the risk of inciting someone else to
me: murder are to be preferred to murder.  Better yet is silence.

dm: 	You are making it real difficult for me to avoid using an ad
dm: hominem attack.  Silence may have been better.  However, even better
dm: than that would have been your silence in just about everything you
dm: have written about Kach or members of the Kahane family.  At least
dm: Binyamin was not repeating lies.

But David, why should you even try to avoid an ad hominem attack?  You
understandably are upset about my views, so let it all hang out!
Don't even think of restraint, we'll all understand that you don't
mean anything that you say.  Wait a sec, how are we to know if at some
future point you do actually want to be taken seriously?

 me: From your point of view David, would it not be a desecration of the
 me: memory of his father for an act of murder to be attributed to his
 me: purported followers?
 
dm:	Yes.  However, only an anti semite would pin something like this
dm:on Binyamin unless Binyamin had something more to do with it than
dm:uttering a very understandable feeling.

me: I sincerly hope that I shall be spared the opportunity to so demonstrate
me: my antisemitism.

dm: If you seriously believe this than you have already demonstrated it.

I seriously believe that a person (irregardless of that person's
religion or so on) who encourages crimes bears some moral
responsibility (without diminishing that of the actual perpetrator) if
those crimes are in fact committed by someone who is influenced by the
first person.  If this is antisemitism, I am proud to be an
antisemite.

-- 
/|/-\/-\      
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: Jews for Germans
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 00:19:05 GMT

In article <93004.225831PC2370A@auvm.american.edu>, Peter M. Cohen <PC2370A@auvm.american.edu> writes:
> The German's should never be forgiven for the Holocaust, not for a thousand
> generations.. Isn't it amazing that whenever you speak to German's alive in
> 
> that era that they had nothing to do, or didnt know about the Holocaust ??
> 
> I find that truly amazing... no, it's better to never let them forget their
> shame and crimes against us.  This is a reminder to the Germans who think we
> have forgotten. WE HAVENT FORGOT !!! WE ARE HERE !! WE ARE STILL ALIVE !!!
> 
> NOT  YOU OR ANY BASTARD ARABS CAN KILL US OFF !!!!
> 
> just a friendly reminder :-)
> 
> shalom (peace)

Surely some mistake - the Germans are wonderful people and you are certainly
misjudging them.  My previous accusations against them - that they are racist
barbarians - have been hotly defended, not least by subscribers to this very
group, so I have had to revise my opinion and now wish to propogate the myth
that they are the nicest people on earth!  Why then are there no prospective
members of my proposed Jews for Germans sect?

Laurence

Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24917 soc.culture.german:9683
From: jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
Date: 10 Jan 1993 15:43:48 -0500
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
NNTP-Posting-Host: slab.mtholyoke.edu

In article <1993Jan10.172504.25008@wam.umd.edu> mstern@wam.umd.edu (Michael Stern) writes:
>I disagree.  When it came to non-Aryans (Jews, Gypsies, etc),
>germans of that era were VERY cruel.  There have been plenty of
>documented evidence (which I will provide sources to, if you wish)
>of average middle-class Germans turning their longtime Jewish
>friends into teh Gestapo.  I do not need to tell you what happened
>to those people.  In my view, that qualifies as utmost cruelty.

Nobody is arguing that... what I'm arguing is that in every single
one of the dozens of genocides committed in this century by dozens
of ethnic groups against dozens of other ethnic groups you saw that
exact same thing, and if you don't believe that, then pack your
suitcases and go to Sarajevo or India RIGHT NOW, TODAY, and you'll
see the same thing happening again.

FACE IT, humans have the capacity for utmost cruelty.

On the other hand, in all of those situtations you will also find
people of the same ethnic group as the perpetrators who refuse to
take part in the orgy or cruelty and stand up for their beliefs.
They are always a small minority, and they are always treated the
same way as the oppressed group, but they are always there.  They
were there in Germany under the Nazis, too, and they were killed
just the same as the Jews.  In fact, remember that the Nazis came
for the Commuists first of all, regardless of whether those were
Jews or Germans.

>If your grandfather (the SS officer) captured my grandfather
>(the partisan peasant) during WW-2, he probably would have 
>tortured and killed him.

No, that's bullshit.  He probably would have followed his orders,
which were most likely to either shoot on sight, or to arrest and turn
in for deportation to a concentration camp, but to imply that he would
have personally indulged in cruelty beyond that is bullshit... you
just don't know that... some percentage of humans will, given the
chance and the environment, indulge in such cruelty, and some will
not.  This has nothing to do with whether they are German or any of
any other ethnic group.  I repeat again... HUMANS are capable of 
utmost cruelty... to believe that one ethnic group is more capable
of cruelty than another is plain racism and is at the heart of the
problem.

To say that "Germans are more capable of cruelty than other people"
is as bad as saying "all Jews are coniving, thieving opportunists."

Is that so hard to understand?
-- 
Jurgen Botz, jbotz@mtholyoke.edu
Northampton, MA, USA
From: bri@panix.com (Brian Shanblatt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Singers
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:07:11 GMT
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC

>
>I seem to recall my Dad saying that Robert Merril and Jan Pierce were
>brothers.
>
>
>-- 
>Len Moskowitz
>moskowit@panix.com

I do not believe they were blood relations.  I think Jan Peerce and Ricard
Tucker were brother-in-laws.  I am not sure though.

-- 
bri@panix.com
"How to learn how to sing, Rule #1: There is always tomorrow..." 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: horen@netcom.com (Jonathan B. Horen -- [408] 736-3923)
Subject: Looking For Address & Phone Number
Organization: NetCom -- OnLine Communication Services
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:10:32 GMT

Forgive the bandwidth, but can someone provide me with
the address/phone number for:

	Lenn (Yehonatan) Schramm
	Gilo
	Jerusalem, Israel

and:

	IVRT (his company)
	Jerusalem, Israel

I need to contact him.


-- 
Jonathan B. Horen       | A man should not strive to eliminate his complexes,
SysAdmin/SrTechWriter   | but to get in accord with them; they are 
Tel: (408) 736-3923     | legitimately what directs his conduct in the world.
Email: horen@netcom.com |                     -- Sigmund Freud
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: time between BASAR & CHLAV
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:13:34 GMT

warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein) writes:

> While I wait 3 (should I make sure to mention this on dates?), I think
> 6 (lumping 5.5, 5+epsilon and such in the same category) is more
> common.  I have not asked anyone who might know from personal
> experience, but I have been told that Sefaradim and Edot Mizrach keep
> six hours (even though the 1 hour Holland minhag is supposed to derive
> from Spanish Jews who settled there).

I have seen six hours and one hour cited.  Three hours is probably
just a result of compromise, for which Yekke's are so well known.

The various 5+x, 0<x<1, minhagim are interesting.  If the minhag is
to wait into the *sixth* hour, why adopt such a chumra?  Why not just
wait into the *six* hours, and eat dairy immediately (>0t) after meat?

-Don Gertler
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Torah is the center of every Jew? (was Orthadox Judaism and women)
Date: 12 Jan 93 13:25:22
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, Trusted Computer Systems Department,
	El Segundo CA
	<1993Jan10.061307.19977@cis.ohio-state.edu>
	<abramwtz-110193135937@citrine14.bucknell.edu>
	<1993Jan12.211024.6299@cis.ohio-state.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu's message of Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:10:24 GMT

On Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:10:24 GMT, khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin) said:

> Jon, I have seen and talked to a lot of Reform and Conservative people
> and the one thing they have in common (not all of them of course!) is
> that once you prove them wrong in the example of sexism THEY make, they
> immidiately switch to another one. 

But you don't prove them wrong. All you prove is that from the Orthodox point
of view, it isn't sexist. From the Reform point of view, it *is* sexist, and
that is why practices such as that aren't found in Reform.  That's why in
Reform you find the obligations on women to be equal to men, without the
distinctions made in Orthodoxy.

Remember your physics. What can't be seen from one frame of reference may
become visible from another.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Singers
Date: 10 Jan 93 21:45:33 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger) writes:

> Let's see.
> 
> There's Isaac Bashevis and his brother Israel Joshua.
> 
> There's the sewing machine guy.
> 
> And there must be at least a couple of Singers who post here. :-)
> 
> --Mark

-----
Good one!
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews for Germans
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 16:03:57 +0100
Organization: "The Private Site of Manfredo Tichauer"

godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:

> In article <93004.225831PC2370A@auvm.american.edu>, Peter M. Cohen <PC2370A@a
> > The German's should never be forgiven for the Holocaust, not for a thousand
> > generations.. Isn't it amazing that whenever you speak to German's alive in
> > 
> > that era that they had nothing to do, or didnt know about the Holocaust ??
> > 
> > I find that truly amazing... no, it's better to never let them forget their
> > shame and crimes against us.  This is a reminder to the Germans who think w
> > have forgotten. WE HAVENT FORGOT !!! WE ARE HERE !! WE ARE STILL ALIVE !!!
> > 
> > NOT  YOU OR ANY BASTARD ARABS CAN KILL US OFF !!!!
> > 
> > just a friendly reminder :-)
> > 
> > shalom (peace)
> 
> Surely some mistake - the Germans are wonderful people and you are certainly
> misjudging them.  My previous accusations against them - that they are racist
> barbarians - have been hotly defended, not least by subscribers to this very
> group, so I have had to revise my opinion and now wish to propogate the myth
> that they are the nicest people on earth!  Why then are there no prospective
> members of my proposed Jews for Germans sect?
> 
> Laurence
> 

I would recommend Laurence to go to a psychiatrist instead of launching hate
tirades in  s.c.j.  I really  have  no reason  to love Germany, but I don't
speak/write constantly about it. And to Peter : no German thinks that we have
forgotten, although many of them try to forget it and would like that WE do it
(many German politicians behave as if Germany's history had a blackout between
January.1933  and  May.1945).  But I know also that there are good and bad
Germans as there are also good and bad Jews, Israelis, Chileans, etc.etc. and
it is im my hands to select the people whith whom I like to be with. BTW, if
Godfrey hates so much Germany and the Germans, then I think he should act
accordingly and leave this country, AND NOT misuse an account that a German
institution lets him use free of charge. 

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Israel must NOT return the "garbage"
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:14:17 GMT

2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Andy) writes:

>>I'm waiting.  When are you going to follow your advice and condemn the
>>Lebanese?

>If Cuba expels people to the US, people who are not US citizens, does the
>US have an obligation to accept them?

The Cubans are not Americans.  Whatever happened to the great pan-Arab
nation?  Or does that only exist as a convenience to help in the
destruction of Israel?
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: chr04ha@vmsa.technion.ac.il
Subject: Re: kosher question
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:50:04 GMT

In article <9301062137.AA02628@halibut.nosc.mil>, mgross@halibut.nosc.mil 
(Michelle K. Gross) writes:
> 
> An addition: if you are actually planning to consume a ham-and-cheese
> sandwich, do not require this for your health (including pregnancy!),
> and will do so no matter what anyone tells you with regard to your obligation
> to observe the laws of keeping kosher, then I think that you should plan to
> enjoy the sandwich. (This intention will prevent you from having the sin
> of willfully breaking a commandment.) Oh dear. I seem to have achieved a kind
> of Russell's paradox in creating an obligation not to willfully break a
> commandment. How can this be alleviated?
> 

I beg to differ: In such a case, eat it but try not to enjoy it! :-)

At least one very eminent sage, Rava, considered a heretical Jew who
eats non-kosher meat "in order to annoy" [the Orthodox] (i.e. as a matter
of principle) to be more ethical than one who does it "to gratify his
appetite".  He believed that the former may be "wicked towards God but
good vis-a-vis his fellow man", whereas the latter is basically
untrustworthy.  Regrettably, Halacha follows the opinion of his adversary,
Abayei, whose argument can be summed up as: "Wicked is wicked!".
I went into this question at length in a post submitted a month ago on 
the  admissibility of a heretic's testimony in rabbinical court. 
This dispute between  Rav and Abbayei (one of very many) can be found 
in Sanhedrin 27a.
 
  Amitai
 *---------------------------------------------------------------*
 | E.A. Halevi, Department of Chemistry, Technion - I.I.T.       |     
 | "Mipnei seiva takum, vehadarta pnei zaken" - Leviticus 19, 32 |
 *---------------------------------------------------------------*
> --Michelle
> mgross@nosc.mil
--
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosher resturants in Phili?
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:13:49 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: gsmlrn@gsm001.mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson)

In article <1993Jan8.205952.28631@gsm001.mendelson.com>, gsmlrn@gsm001 (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes:
>>In center city, there are 5 kosher restaurants; I believe they are
>>all certified by the local (Orthodox) Va'ad, although I'm not sure.
>>The European Dairy Restaurant is at 20th and Walnut (or around there
>>somewhere), and there are three Israeli restaurants on 11th and 12th
>>streets: Maccabeam, Jonathan's, and Shishkabob.

>Jonathan's is a deli that also serves Israeli food. They are less
>fancy than Maccabeam, and I prefer the food and prices.

>Funny, I've never been to Shiskabob or Shira's either.

People can pick their own standards of kashruth.  Shishkabob and Maccabeam
are considered unacceptable by most Orthodox I've heard an opinion from,
especially the former.  From the reasons given, I think many Conservative
would reject Shishkabob also.

>>Oh, there's also a kosher vegetarian Chinese place in Chinatown (on the north
>>edge of center city), I forget what it's called.

>It's called the Cherry Street Vegatarian Restaurant. It is Kosher, but the
>service was so bad that I would not recommend eating there.

It's under Conservative supervision.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish