HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bwest@cs.utexas.edu (Brian Neal West)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Alonzo Mourning, greedy SOB
Date: 16 Oct 1992 09:49:23 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: peaches.cs.utexas.edu

>I don't know what's the big deal of Alonzo's action. I mean he has the 
>rights to ask as much money as he thinks he deserves.  Personally, I think
>the players that holds out after they already sign a contract some previous
>year but decided that since they have a great season last year they should
>receive more money are the one that I'm disgusted at. They sign a contract and
>they should honor it.

... or not get paid.  

Alonzo (or Tom Gugliotta with Washington) can ask for whatever he
wants but if he doesn't compromise he may lose money and his value may
go down.  If Charlotte doesn't have any more money to give, they can
either trade his rights to someone that does or let him re-enter next
year's draft.  If he re-enters the draft, teams would be cautious about
drafting him since he has a known history of asking for too much
money, which could mean a lower draft position.  Thus, he will have a
lower value and will get less money.  They might also think that he
would try to make up any lost revenue (if he plays in Europe for
less).  Also if he goes to Europe and doesn't have monster stats,
unfavorable comparisons with Danny Ferry will be made and his value
will go down yet again.

I think Charlotte should call his bluff.  They should say to him "sign
before training camp or we'll trade you if we can."  How many times do
rookies sign after training camp and then go on to have a mediocre
season?  I suspect that this will be his destiny.  The fans certainly
will not win in this scenario.  And Alonzo will come across as a
greedy SOB who does care for the Charlotte team or its fans.

As a trvia note, has any top 10 draftee in recent memory opted for
re-entry in following year's draft?  I remeber an offensive lineman
did this in the NFL and ended up being drafted lower the second time
round and getting a substantial pay cut plus a lost year of revenue.
 
Brian West
-- 
bwest@cs.utexas.edu
============================================================================
STANDARD DISCLAIMER: No one is responsible. 
My Astral-Projection did this, if you get my drift.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: huang@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Linus Huang)
Subject: Re:  Anthony Peeler
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:45:58 GMT


Ivan Chong wonders:

>Can he drive to the hoop?  Is he a good ball handler?
>Is he good defensively?
>
>Why did people consider him such a high lottery pick (before he ran
>into problems off the court)?

I've heard a lot of different things about Peeler.  Some say he is a good
defender and some say he needs work on D.  Some say he is a good outside
shooter and some say his outside shooting is lousy.  His ball-handling is
decent for a 2.  I think the concensus is that he is a good driver.  He is
very athletic.  This is cliche, I know, but a lot sportswriters call him
"Jordanesque".  Then, of course, there are his celebrated off-the-court
problems.

Anyone else know more about him?  I'm from Columbia, MO (home of the Tigers)
but I was away for college and in any case always paid more attention to Doug
Smith.

Linus Huang
huang@cs.uiuc.edu
From: SOCC9241430E@LUST.LATROBE.EDU.AU (JACKSON,Chris)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 10 Oct 92 17:43:50 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <MeoaGIi00io1I6OW8i@andrew.cmu.edu> mh6c+@andrew.cmu.edu writes:

> 
> 
> Look, I got two words for the NBA, MAgic Johnson...
>
> 	I got two words for Chicago, New York...
> 
> 	I got three words for everyone and their mother who cannot seem to get
> off of Magic's jock strap...GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>

Yes, well I hate to sound repetitive, but why not lay off...Magic took his
illness like the champion he was, he didn't let up and refuse to die, and 
yet when he comes back to basketball, he is severely bagged.  Fair go!  
What is all the bitching and moaning about...the dangers of a HIV+ player?
Or is it the knowledge that a HIV+ player is playing?
 
> 	When Magic gets cut and another player is cut at the same time and they
> are close enough to have sex...and their blood mixes and the other
> palyer contracts the HIV virus and then gets AIDS and then dies, you can
> all talk your f**kin' mouths off.  But until that time, (does a
> snowball's chance in hell ring a bell to anyone) SHUT THE F**K
> UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Although we can't deny the fact that a chance of HIV transmission could take
place (as seen in Italian soccer - 1990), do we deny the man the sport?  And
what are the legal stances?  Like the hyperthetical scenarios that have been
offered where Magic transmits the disease, how can we be sure that it is
definitely from Magic?  If so, what legal implications?  

If all the critics out there believed that Magic should be banned, due to the
HIV that he's contracted, then go all the way....introduce compulsory blood
tests in all the sports and ban all people who are identified!!!!  To me this
is a ridiculous notion, and I believe that most professional sportspeople will
support this stance.

> 
> 	Jesus, this topic should be changed to 
> 
> 		Magic.aids.give me a break...

That's is right, give the man a break!

> 
> *SIGH*
> 
> 	What happened to real NBA news...instead of all this gosip...

Why trample Magic to death, when other info can be posted....stop flogging
a dead horse.

> 
> MAGE.

Chris.
From: f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: First Round Picks?
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:32:56 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
Nntp-Posting-User: f67700241

In article <39523@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, cs161feu@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff) writes:
> as232@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Lerner) writes:
>>It seems that some significant talents have yet to sign contracts.  Many
>>said Laettner was brains VS Shaquille's pure talent in College,
> 
> Of course, the reason everybody said that is that Laettner is white
> and Shaquille is black...  1/2 :-)
> 
> (Wow, starting this discussion before the season has even begun...
> A new record?)

Nah.  Discussion won't start in earnest until more Celtics fans get onto
the net and compare Bird's savvy to Magic's pure athleticism .... till
then, it doesn't count.  Bird vs Magic is the consummate firestarter.
-- 
Greg "Mockingbird" Franklin      Interviewer: "Sir, how do you spell relief?"
f67700241@ccit.arizona.edu               Dan: "R-O-L-A-I-D-S-E."

"[George Bush is] the most ruthless white man in the history of the planet."
	-- Richard Ben Cramer, author of _What It Takes_
"The President scores much better than Bill Clinton."
	-- Dan, comparing Bush's record of marital infidelity to Clinton's
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: d89larli@odalix.ida.liu.se (Lars Lindqvist)
Subject: Scottie Pippen
Organization: CIS Dept, Univ of Linkoping, Sweden
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 12:26:26 GMT

What teams have Scottie Pippen before Chicago ? I think I've heard somewhere that he was coach for a highschool
team when someone told him that with his atletic abilities he should start to play basketball 'seriously'.....and
he did. Have I got it all wrong ?...or

Regards Lars L
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Rosters?
Keywords: rosters update
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:19:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <1992Oct8.213133.5844@unlinfo.unl.edu> childers@cse.unl.edu (scott childers) writes:
>    Just wondering if any one could post an updated roster of all the teams
>(with all the major trades & rookie signings)  I've been stuck doing projects
>instead of keeping up with the teams!
>
>Post or e-mail I frequent both places.
>
>Thanx!

 also if any of you could send roster info to nbastats-admin@athena.mit.edu
 it would be most appreciated as we are trying to gear up for the first full
season of NBASTATS[tm].

thanks,
nate, deputized adminismonger, NBASTATS[tm]
From: kthompso@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Kevin Thompson)
Subject: Re: Lakers to Go all the way.
Keywords: Lakers to go all the way.
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:25:43 GMT

In article <39398@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> cs161feu@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff) writes:

>Well, I'm certain he would be more effective than Elden Campbell or James
>Edwards.  If he wants to play again, I would certainly let him.  (While
>we're at it, bring back West, Baylor, and Jabbar.  Could you imagine
>fielding a team of Magic Johnson, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Kareem Abdul
>Jabbar, and Wilt Chamberlain?  :-)) Seriously, I'm sure Wilt could still
>play in the league.

It's unclear how serious this discussion is, but my favorite Wilt quote went
something like this a few years ago:

   Interviewer: If you were playing in the NBA today, how many points a game
       do you think you could score?
   Wilt:        Oh, low 20s, mid 20s.
   Interviewer: Fewer points because the game's changed?  Because there's
       more 7-footers than there were when you played?
   Wilt:        No, I'd score less because I'm 52 years old ....

One never knows with him, but I'd be shocked if he could do it even for a
single all-star game.....

Cheers -- Kevin
-- 
kthompso@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov     Artificial Intelligence Research Laboratory
(415) 604-4767 (voicemail)        NASA-Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: bewillia@mothra.syr.EDU (Col. Devon McKnight)
Subject: Re: Cavs (was Re: Cavs get Gerald Wilkins?)
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 01:28:40 EDT

In article <98281@bu.edu> sheyn@csa.bu.edu (Igor Sheyn) writes:
>
>There should be a Webster available on Internet which would have NBA'ers
>names. I am tired of seeing "Jerald Wilkens" and a new spelling each
>time for Sarunas M. ( afraid of misspelling his name myself, even though
>I would put it as Marchulenis, which is closed to the way his name was
>pronounced in XUSSR).

	Actually, it's pronounced more like Marshall-o'-nis.  If I remember
correctly, it's spelled Marciulonis.  Or something.  I'd have to check my
NBA Register for the exact spelling.
From: aminkoff@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Tony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: prediction contest
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:58:16 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

Again, here is the article on my prediction contest.  I will repost
this article every few weeks, until the season begins.

Given the amount of excrement that has been flying on this newsgroup
lately, I'm a little disappointed in the participation so far in my
contest.  I hope a lot of you are just waiting until the last minute
to enter.  (I suppose this is a reasonable approach...  You'd do
pretty badly if you sent in your predictions on Oct. 18th, and
Michael Jordan suffered a season-ending injury on Oct. 19th.)  I
expect to see some more entries in the next few weeks...  Especially
from you Lakers woofers!  :-)

Here is a list of entries I have so far:

"Thomas Hyer"                                  <IOR@SLACVM.BitNet>
Bucky Ransdell <wgr%jaguar@rti.rti.org>
Doug Mraz  <jdm42241@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Mike Littau <littaum@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU>
Simon Langsford <sgl@aeg.dsto.gov.au>
Suri Brahmaroutu <suri@snap.la.locus.com>
edrury@3cpu.rain.com (Ed Drury)
gattuso@ssd.comm.mot.com (Christopher Gattuso)
mao@chair.acuson.com (Ken Mao)
subhas@jove.rutgers.edu

To enter, mail your predictions to <aminkoff@sdcc13.ucsd.edu> with
the string 'prediction contest' in the "Subject: " line.

The object is to predict how many games will be won by each team.
Each guess should be of the following form:  a three-letter team
code, followed by an integer in the range 0-82.  There should be only
one prediction to a line.  The three-letter team code is the first
three letters of the team's location, with the following exceptions:
Los Angeles Clippers = lac, Los Angeles Lakers = lal, Golden State
Warriors = gsw, New Jersey Nets = njn, New York Knicks = nyk.

Here is a sample entry, from a rather uncreative fellow who expects
each team to win as many games this year as last:

bos 51
nyk 51
njn 40
mia 38
phi 35
was 25
orl 21
chi 67
cle 57
det 48
ind 40
atl 38
cha 31
mil 31
uta 55
san 47
hou 42
den 24
dal 22
min 15
por 57
gsw 55 
pho 53
sea 47
lac 45
lal 43
sac 29

You may list your predictions in any order, but there must be
exactly one prediction for each team.

Your score is the sum of the absolute deviations between your
prediction for each team and the number of games actually won by
the team.  The object is to minimize your score.

A little note:  There will, of course, be a total of 1107 wins in
the regular season, or an average of 41 per team.  You may or may
not choose to make your predictions average exactly 41 wins per
team-- there's certainly no rule that you have to-- but if your
predictions average a great deal less or more than 41, that's
probably an indication that you may want to rethink your
predictions.  (All the entries so far have been pretty good in this
respect.)

Predictions must be received by Nov. 5th (my birthday :-) to be accepted.

Good luck!

Tony Minkoff
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: goolsby@harpo.rtp.dg.com (Chris Goolsby)
Subject: Re: Alonzo Mourning, greedy SOB
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 14:13:38 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC.

In article <1992Oct09.223746.18558@bnr.ca> yount@crchh473.BNR.CA (Jeff Yount) writes:
>I hear that Alonzo Mourning's contract negotiations have
>come to a halt recently. It seems that poor Alonzo is not
>happy with the maximum the Hornets can pay him his first
>year under the salary cap. They have 2.1M, he wants 2.3M.
>So what is his solution? He wants the Hornets to trade
>away some talent to free up more money for him. Now that's
>team spirit. Supposedly his total contract value is not
>the problem, he just can't live on so little money his
>first year. I don't think Alonzo understands the Charlotte
>crowd. The Hornets are Gods in Charlotte. Every member of
>the team is popular. When he holds out for more money than the
>team is allowed to pay, then forces the team to trade
>a popular player to pad his ego, hurting the team, he is
>not setting himself up for a great welcome. Have you ever
>heard 24,000 college style fans booing as loud as they
>can? Grow up Alonzo! When you finally come down off your
>ego, you'll just be #2 to LJ (maybe #3 after Kendill).
>

I've been equally disgusted by this continuing debacle.  However, I
put more blame on Alonzo's agent, Falk, than on Alonzo himself.  This
Falk clown is being a complete dick about the whole negotiation
process.

Charlotte is turning into a pretty good organization (no more "draft
J.R. Reid because of local connections" and similar crap) and they
made a good offer to Mourning.  They got several players to
restructure their contracts and offered Alonzo more money than they
gave Larry Johnson last year, I believe.  Enter Falk.

He tells Alonzo that it's not enough.  He tells Charlotte to trade one
of their big men for a second round draft choice to free up more money
for his unproven client.  Charlotte tells him to forget it and that
they'll be even less money soon, because they plan to sign their
second round pick (I forget the name) to the league minimum before
training camp, which will leave less money available under the cap to
sign Mourning.  Falk doesn't budge.  Charlotte signs the player.  Falk
goes to the press and threatens to have Alonzo sit out the year.
Charlotte shrugs and says Falk should be talking to them and not the
papers. . . .  What a mess!

I'm willing to give Alonzo the benefit of the doubt and say that he's
just being poorly advised.  Maybe he's just ignorant, instead of
egotistical.  In any event, I'm disgusted with him and Falk both.  I
was really looking forward to seeing Charlotte make some real strides
this year, but now I expect that Mourning (if he is ever signed) will
have built up too much ill will in the coaches, his fellow players,
and the fans to have a good year.  Shades of Anderson and New Jersey
last year.

Who is the Falk guy anyway?  Anybody know who else he represents?
From: bramsey@npal.rn.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: PACERS,PACERS,PACERS!!!!!
Date: 14 Oct 92 11:01:39 GMT
Organization: PalNet -- Indianapolis, Indiana

In article <1992Oct13.115314.15045@brtph560.bnr.ca>, markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
> In article <20673@npal.rn.com> bramsey@npal.rn.com writes:
>>r IF anyone thinks the bulls are going to win another one your in for a shock.
>>the Indiana pacers are going to have  a 65 win season and kill the bulls in the
>>post season.
>>
>>bramsey@npal.rn.com
> 
> Yeah, right.
> Bell Northern Research, Inc.

well andrew let me tell ya somethin' we've got reggie mi who is BETTER than mic
michael jordan when it comes down to it and if you think for an instant that
jordan will win the scoring title tr your SADLY mistaken. juken. just like i
predicted that the colts would do BETTER!
From: cs161feu@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:39:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.39342
Organization: University of California, San Diego

SOCC9241430E@LUST.LATROBE.EDU.AU (JACKSON,Chris) writes:
}In <39151@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> cs161feu@sdcc10.ucsd.edu writes:
}> gattuso@ssd.comm.mot.com (Christopher Gattuso) writes:
}> >My turn.....
}> >
}> >	I got two words for Magic.....LAST PLACE.
}> >	I got one more word for Magic....CLIPPERS.
}> >	I got two words for the Knicks....NO DEFENSE.
}
}I've got two words for Last Place.....Dream On!
}I've got one word for the Clippers.....Chemistry?
}I've got two words for the knicks.....Serious contention!
}
}> >
}> >Enough said!!!!
}
}Enough said?  Get a life Tony!  Last place?  Yeah, good one...are you a dis-
}gruntled clippers fan, who watched the likes of Benoit for too long and lost
}a grip on reality?

Neither.  I'm the poor, innocent victim of some net.idiot who
doesn't know how to check his attributions.  I never wrote any of the
above.

}Wrong newsgroup Tony!  You wanted rec.reality.lost it!
}Sorry, that aint exist, maybe we will implement one...how about rec.shit.tony?
}
}Maybe a bit on the truthful side, but if you're going to flame someone or
}something, get some clues first!!!!

Good advice, Chris.  Try it.

Tony
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Subject: Re: Trent Tucker signs w/ BULLS
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Reply-To: koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:59:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.170958.13567@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
>Haha...so why did he get released by the Suns?  It wasn't much of a loss
>to them.

Well, he would have had to play behind 2 allstars in Hornecek and
Majerle and I don't think the Suns could justify a roster spot for
him in that context.  The only reason he was ever classified as a
Sun was for salary cap reasons on the X/Mustaf trade.  He had to
be included, but they never had any intention of keeping him.

>Tucker's 3 point FG% is good, but unfortunately, his 2 point %
>is only that high as well.  He's not a scoring or playmaking threat and
>he's kind of old too.

Yea but he can play solid D and stand outside and hit an open 
jumper once in a while.  What more do you want from him in Chicago?
--
Harry Koehnemann
koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: byau@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ben Yau)
Subject: Rookie Contracts (was Re: Alonzo Mourning, greedy SOB)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:44:40 GMT

sometimes I wish that the NBA had a rule for ALL rookies that the team was
required to pay only the minimum for ANY rookie $140,000(?) or else have
two specific contract values..  $140,000 and $200,000 (for higher draft
picks).  and for only a year.

then teh coaches could restructure the contracts at the end of the year 
and have exclusive rights to the rookies (kind of like how they have rights to 
them after they draft them).

of course, this presents a lot of different problems, but i wonder if they
would all be offsetted by the fact that all these rookies are getting big
contracts and they are still unproven.. of course, then after one sesason the
negotations for the contract would be probably even more intense.. who knows?
but at least the team knows what it's getting.


(i am from seattle and have visions of our football team's escapade with
Bosworth)

I am sure there are other rookies in the NBA who have pulled Bosworths as well

any ideas on this?
or thoughts?
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: First Round Picks?
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:14:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: uvmark.1992Oct14.151446.25960
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1bfcutINN6ep@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> as232@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Lerner) writes:
>
>It seems that some significant talents have yet to sign contracts.  Many
>said Laettner was brains VS Shaquille's pure talent in College, but Shaq at
>least had the sense to get signed and get into camp on time.  What's going
>to happen with these guys?  Will Mourning and Laettner be traded?  Maybe the
>NBA should resort to third party salary arbitrators to settle these problems?
>It seems that every year it's taking longer to get these College superstars
>into camp.
>
>Mike
>-- 

As far as Laettner goes, word is that he is about to sign a deal this week
(if it hasn't already happened).  Supposedly around 20.1 million over
6 years.

Dave


-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 7 Oct 1992 10:14:34 MST
From: <IDCLS@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: MAGIC--Not a Walking Plague

It really is time to end this discussion.  It has been going on forever.  Many
people have made keynote opinions, but the bottom line is that if the NBA, Dave
Stern and the other NBA players are willing to play with or against Magic, who
are we to sit up and say otherwise?  I like those who have said that surely
Magic cannot be the only NBAer to test positive for the virus, he is just the
only one who had the guts to divulge that information to the world.  Like
Arthur Ashe managed to hide it since 1983 and it just recently came into public
knowledge, don't think that others won't attempt to hide it (Rock, Liberace, to
name a couple more).  Let the man play the game.  Chandra - Arizona State U.
From: andy@rocky.gte.com (Andrew Busa)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: first round failures
Date: 7 Oct 92 23:29:15 GMT
Organization: GTE Contel Federal Systems
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

I don't know if he was the most recent but the Celts draft of Micheal Young
in 1984(?) would be one of the few who don;t make an opening day roster who
wrer first round picks.

Andy