From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Rich men and Heaven
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:33:43 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <ksand-131092141503@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
|In article <71065@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard
|Pitts) wrote:
|> |Sigh, these are the things I oppose. Imagination used to create all kinds
|> 
|> You oppose all of these things I mentioned????????
| 
|I oppose the way to use imagination to fix problems mentioned in the
|Bible. This is not how the words of Jesus should be used in real life.

If you'd like to quote the points I allegedly used imagination to
fix and explain why my statements were not correct, then we can discuss
it, but as it stands we can't.  You vaguely assert and are not specific.

|> |of hypertext links from one place in the Bible to another. Even worse,
|> 
|> Where did I use imagination to connect these things?????????
|> Read Luke 2:10-11 and John 1:1-18 (note verses 1 and 14.) and see
|> who is this Jesus of Nazerath - is he a noble man?
|
|You gave an excellent sample of how Christians work by using various
|small snippets of statements, and building a higher level of abstraction
|using such patch work. You know, I could do exactly the same thing to
|build a Zen-Islam-oriented Christian church. And this is the way we
|have created all the other alternate Christian churches as well. 

Again, you allude, but don't give specifics.

|It's not exactly a nice way to use Jesus' words to create your own
|favourite doctrines. I don't think he would have accepted this method
|as well.

If you would be specific, we could discuss this.

|> |to use what Jesus said to justify all kinds of strange doctrines. No wonder
|> |we have so many original Christian sects...
|> 
|> Which words of Jesus do you question as being the reason for there
|> being so many original Christian sects?  Which original sects?
|
|The original church was the one founded in Jerusalem. Paul got into
|his way, and started to create his own alternate system in the land
|of Gentiles. Ultimately the Jerusalem church withered away when the
|second coming never happened, and the Romans crushed the Jewish

And we talk about twisting words to get your own doctrines.

If Jesus called Paul in the midst of Paul's persecution of the body
of Christ and independently confirmed this with a vision to 
Ananias (Acts 9), then God would have stopped Paul from creating 
'his own alternate system.'

|culture. Meanwhile Paul gathered more forces and took control from
|the disciples themselves (!).

Give some references for this, please.

|> Could it be that common sense is blinded to the message?  Paul tells
|> us that things of the spirit are hidden from those without the spirit.
|> Jesus told us that he spoke in parables, which fulfilled the prophecy
|> of people ever hearing, but not understanding - ever seeing, but not
|> perceiving.
|
|If you state that common sense is blinded by bizarre imagination, fine
|with me. If your brand of faith can't stand common sense, then it's your
|own problem, not mine. I actually do believe that a possible God is
|a *smart* person, and he/she/it would create doctrines that *nobody*
|could question. It's one sign of omnipotence, actually.

If you are blind, how can you see.

|> What was your father's cousin's independent confirmation, which you
|> previously said he had?
|
|He saw Jesus many times, and ultimately he killed himself due to
|personal problems. I don't want to talk more about this personal
|tragedy, actually, it was a really sad case.

Let me ask this one more directly.  Who independently confirmed
your fathers'cousin's visions???????  Paul's vision was independently
confirmed.

Sincerely,
Richard Pitts

-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
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