HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 07:48:00 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         "V70A::DOMINGUERR" <DOMINGUERR%V70A.decnet@NPT.NUSC.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      F/C (Can he read?)
X-To:         autism <autism%sjuvm.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu>

	I recently spoke with a friend of mine who has a 7 year old
autistic child. Her son has been using a facilitated communication for
almost a year now and has show remarkable progress. However recently
some very confusing incidents have occurred. David has always love
cooking and helping his mother prepare meals. The other day they
decided to bake a cake. Linda (David's mother) ask David what
ingredients they use and through F/C David was able to tell her. This
came as no surprise since they have done this several times before. Now
comes the confusing part. As they were getting the ingredients together
she was verbals asking him for one after another until they got to the
eggs. At this point she decided to show him the word on the list and
let him read it and get it. This is a word that he has seen often and
typed using F/C often but he could not figure out what was wanted. He
went to the refrigerator and began to scramble for different things.
The situation was calm, he was not overexcited and the task was very
motivating for him but he just could not get what was wanted until
Linda verbals said the word "eggs". On the surface it seemed as though
he could not read what the word was.
  	His teachers since this have also noted that he refuses to
respond using F/C to questions in a story book until the book has
been read to him aloud. (Book text below level of F/C typing
skills.) Has anyone else seen this type of thing before or have any
ideas or comments as to what is going on? We are all confused.

Bob D.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:37:25 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         "David L. Boucher" <FAC2445@UOFT01.BITNET>

Is there any third party out there who really knows what's going on that
can explain this Don/Jim dispute objectively to the rest of the list?
All I have seen is a lot of charges and countercharges and I don't know
what to make of it at all.

Incidentally, is it not possible to set a mailing list to reject postings
from a particular userid?  Maybe a suspension of posting privileges might
be appropriate if an individual is being disruptive.  I think I speak for
most people when I say that I am not fond of flame wars, and that they
are particularly inappropriate on this forum.

- xenon
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:13:03 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Anne Pemberton <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>
Subject:      Re: losing speech
X-To:         AUTISM%SJUVM.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu
              Aug 13, 92 3:34 pm

Folks,
Thanks for the help on the overlays, esp Dan. The problem
with the acetate is not only will it need a frame, and be
hard to handle with textbooks (and clumsy kids), but also
it tends to be very shiny, sending back a glare that
will make it difficult for the kids to see around with
the flourescent lighting in the classroom. The blue overlays
I have are at most, moderately shiney, and do not cause
a problem with glare. Also, I suspect that buying rolls of
each color will end up costing close to the $100 the guy
in Calif wants for the set of "special scotopic overlays"
and I simply don't have that kind of money to spend.

Any other ideas?  Would there be such a product in art
supply stores?

    Anne
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 10:48:00 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         "V70A::DOMINGUERR" <DOMINGUERR%V70A.decnet@NPT.NUSC.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      RE: RE:F/C (Can he read?)
X-To:         AUTISM <AUTISM%SJUVM.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

BOB
	Just a point of correction, I'm sory if I misled you, the 7 year
old autistic child (David) to which I referered in my previous letter,
is non-verbal. It is not that he responds verbaly but rather will
respond to the verbal word. Does this make a difference?
Bob D.
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Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1992 19:55:33 -0400
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         FARBER_R@SPCVXA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: losing speech

Carolyn,
      The subject intrigues me because my elder son Eric,who is now 16,
started to complain a couple of yrs. ago that the printed page seemed
to be "jumping" as he read.I took him to an optometrist who prescribed
glasses for nearsightedness.Eric said the problem was improved as the
Dr. said it would.I was never convinced that was the total problem.
He is a bright boy but never seemed to excel in school.You're
bringing up of this topic makes me wonder if I should pursue it
again.
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:43:23 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Anne Pemberton <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Recent happenings
X-To:         AUTISM%SJUVM.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu
              "RJKOPP%SUVM.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu" at Aug 14, 92 9:21 am

Ray & Bob,
   I, too, concur with the decisions made. I would not feel
comfortable having my students, who are my responsibility when
they are online, in contact with a person with such a history.
I think a fair chance was given to see if he had indeed
"changed", and it was finally obvious that he would not. I
sincerely hope he finds so help, but am relieved that he's gone
from here for now.
Anne

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*                                                                   *
*    Anne L. Pemberton              apembert@ncps.vak12ed.edu       *
*    Nottoway High School           apembert@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu    *
*    Nottoway VA                    notthigh@ruby.vcu.edu           *
*                                                                   *
*           *       *       *       *       *       *               *
*                                                                   *
*   "One of the most spectacular privileges of intellectuals is     *
*    that they are free to demonstrate scandalous stupidity with-   *
*    out ever jeopardizing their reputations"   ---   Eric Hoffer   *
*                                                                   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:44:34 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DRZ@SJUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Recent happenings

Ray,

Very well put.

Bob
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:03:27 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         RJKOPP@SUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: losing speech

Anne,
  For other colored overlays, I am often someone who goes in the strangest
places to find something that seems totally unrelated.  I often find alot
that way that in another form costs alot more.
  There used to be colored film, like what used to be put on Easter baskets.
I haven't looked for it for quite a while, but it seems it used to be sold
in rolls like wrapping paper at stationary or gift shops.  Might give it
a try.

Thanks,
Ray Kopp
Syracuse, New York
Internet:rjkopp@mailbox.syr.edu
Bitnet:RJKOPP@SUVM.BITNET
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Date:         Sat, 15 Aug 1992 12:02:43 PDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Lyle Lexier <lexier@SFU.CA>
Subject:      Re: Recent happenings
X-To:         AUTISM%SJUVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
              14, 92 6:03 pm

    Hello Jim,

     I enjoy this list "AUTISM".  I would hate to see this list go because of
one nincompoop.  I like reading the new information considering autistics.
Anyways how was this guy really abusive that everyone now dislikes him?  Did
he actually beat someone up or rape someone, etc.?

     See here I have no fear to give my own personal information.

Lyle Lexier
lexier@sfu.ca

8276 Osler Street
Vancouver, B.C.
Canada     V6P 4E2
(604) 261-4100
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:34:21 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Daniel Mont <D6M@CORNELLA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: losing speech

Anne,

Ray's idea about the colored cellophane rolls works well if you stretch it
taught and attach it to a cardboard frame.  Otherwise it crinkles easily
and gets harder to see through.

Daniel Mont
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 11:15:08 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DRZ@SJUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: F/C (Can he read?)
              17 Aug 1992 07:48:00 EST from
              <DOMINGUERR%V70A.decnet@NPT.NUSC.NAVY.MIL>

Bob D. presented a case of a 7 year old autistic child who could f/c a
word and respond verbally, but could not "read" the word in print.  I
have done research in reading disability and have seen a similarity in
non-autistic children (autism would not preclude reading disability
of a similar type).  About 85% of the kids we call reading disabled are
the kind of child who has difficult reading words out loud.  Ask them
what a steeple is and they say, "the thing on top of a church".  Ask them
what is the thing on top of the church, and they are unable to come up
with the word easily.  It is as if they had a chronic "tip of the tongue".
If these kids are asked whether bone and gone or by and tie rhyme, they
make errors, even though they can match bone with a picture of a bone or
tell you that tie is a piece of clothing.  This type of disorder can be
traced to a problem in the phonectic decoding system which is considered
to be in the left hemisphere.  Is it possible that the autistic boy is
suffering from a similar problem?

Bob Zenhausern, Ph.D.        Internet: drz@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
St. John's University        Bitnet: drz@sjuvm.bitnet
SB 15 Marillac               Phone:  718-990-6447
Jamaica, NY 11439            Fax:    718-990-6705
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:49:30 -0400
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         FARBER_R@SPCVXA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: losing speech

Carolyn,
        Could you elaborate on Irlen lenses? Diagnoses made?Symptoms
that would appear to indicate the need of such lenses?
Is there a correlation betwwen eye color and sensitivity?
Rosanne
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:56:40 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Anne Pemberton <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Re "Sibling Interactions"
X-To:         AUTISM%SJUVM.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu
              at Aug 17, 92 9:33 am

I'd written the following a few days ago to reply to Dan Mont's
concerns, and just learned it never arrived (I probably forgot
to upload it). So, a little more fuel to the fire ......

Daniel Mont,
   My boys are a year and a half apart in age with
   the older being the special child. What follows
   isn't necessarily what I *did* but what I think
   may work ...

   Let Simon be a three year old ... then a four year
   old ...  When Alex must be undisturbed, engage Simon
   elsewhere. But do let the boys tussle and wrestle
   harmlessly; it's part of being close brothers.

   Play with the boys yourself, you can *show* Simon
   how to play with Alex, and Alex how to play with
   Simon. Start with a little "Two on One on Rug"
   and follow where it leads.

   And good luck. Raising two sons can be a beautiful
   experience.  Relax and enjoy it ....

   Anne
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:47:00 +1000
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: losing speech
X-To:         AUTISM%SJUVM.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU

Rosanne,

I think the answer to your question is YES....although it's difficult to
tell whether the problems I have with my handwriting are due to my eyes or
problems with fine motor skills....all part of the Asperger's Syndrome.

I doubt that I could have put more effort into learning how to write legibly
and neatly than I did as a child, but I still have problems with it. I can't
space my words evenly or maintain a consistent slope or size. I tend to write
'uphill' and I often omit or insert letters or syllables into words. One
other problem I have, is that I basically can't think and write at the same
time.....not like I do when I'm typing....if I try to what I write all comes
out 'jumbled' and even I have difficulty making sense of what I've written.

Any similarities here with Eric's writing abilities?

Carolyn
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:32:43 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Anne Pemberton <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>
Subject:      Re: losing speech
X-To:         AUTISM%SJUVM.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu
              "FARBER_R%SPCVXA.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu" at Aug 13, 92 4:49 pm

Roseanne,
   Thanks, I, too, am innundated with catalogs in the fall. DLM
is not a company that generally has stuff I can use or afford.
The only "Reynolds Wrap" I'm familiar with is the aluminum foil
we wrap the grill in....
   Having a large quantity is NOT the problem, but having a
small quantity in a variety of colors is. Judging from the
success of the blue (one student benefited out of 60 students
it was tried with over 2-3 years), I don't think I'll need
much of any color - 3/4 sheets max. It was handiest to cut
an 8x11 sheet in half so it would fit inside typical HS texts
easily so the student could use it without looking wildly
"different" from peers. (MOST important with adolescents)
   Anne
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Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1992 12:29:22 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DOC@VTVM1.BITNET
Subject:      Great news!

Dan and Lauren,

I wish all the best to both of you - mazal tov!
MK
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Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 09:16:51 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Serge Goldstein <SERGE@PUCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: supportive networks
              11 Aug 1992 21:39:49 CDT from <GOLEM@UKANVM.BITNET>

I suppose it's too much to ask to simply have "Don" removed from this list.
I have found a work-around, however ... I have my mail agent automatically
purge all mail from "Don"; this makes reading the list a lot easier.  Jim,
I'd like to suggest that we all apply a tried-and-true technique for dealing
with behavioral problems in autistics to "Don" --- extinction.  Simply ignore
(delete) all mail from "Don"; don't respond, it only makes things worse.
Serge
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:03:34 CDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Jim Sinclair <GOLEM@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Recent happenings
              14 Aug 1992 10:43:23 EDT from <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>

On Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:43:23 EDT Anne Pemberton said:

>   I, too, concur with the decisions made. I would not feel
>comfortable having my students, who are my responsibility when
>they are online, in contact with a person with such a history.

I think the decisions made were too little, too late, and I still have
serious concerns.  Anne, you know something about the person's history
because apparently Bob shared with you the information he received from
other sources (sources who came forward, by the way, as a direct result
of my making a public issue of his behavior--for which I was criticized).
What about others who still haven't been given the full story?  This
person consistently tried to use this list to get people to enter into
private communication with him, and he's certain to continue trying to
make private contacts with people whose electronic addresses he got
from this list.  Is there any intention to warn people about the likely
direction such contacts will take?  It's not just a "private matter" if
he gets people's names and addresses from a public list.  And as an
ethical matter, I think anyone who knows of a hazard to others is
responsible for sounding a warning or taking other appropriate action
regardless of how the hazardous situation developed.

Right now I'm feeling very unsettled about abuse issues and about the
way this matter has been handled here.  A person who was known to be
severely abusive was permitted to stalk the list for months, collecting
addresses and personal information, and posting open requests for other
contacts off the list.  I tried to alert the responsible "authorities"
to the situation, and was told that Ray didn't want to know anything
about it and Bob didn't want to do anything about it.  I feel that the
handling of this matter reflects both extreme ignorance of how abuse
occurs and how abusive people behave (for example, anyone with any
background in the area of abusive behavior knows that a person with
such a history isn't going to "change" without prolonged intensive
professional treatment, and even then the odds are very poor), and
extreme insensitivity to the concerns of victims and survivors of
abuse.  And the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach tells me that
this forum still doesn't feel like a safe place.  I would like to know
how subscribers are going to be screened from now on.  I would like to
know how future reports concerning abusive behavior by people on the
list will be handled.  I would like to know how Ray and Bob intend to
educate themselves and increase their sensitivity about abuse issues.
I would like to be given convincing reason to believe that concern for
a person with a long and well-documented history of abusive behavior
will no longer take priority on this list over concern for the past and
potential future victims of that abuse.

JS
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:48:50 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DRZ@SJUVM.BITNET
Subject:      RE: RE:F/C (Can he read?)
              18 Aug 1992 10:48:00 EST from
              <DOMINGUERR%V70A.decnet@NPT.NUSC.NAVY.MIL>

Bob D.

Is this right?  The boy might respond correctly when he hears a spoken
command, but not if he reads a command.

This is not necessarily a perceptual problem; maybe it is a processing
problem.  There is a brain system for taking the spoken word and converting
it into meaning.  Individuals who have problems with this have a disorder
known as Wernicke's Aphasia (at least for those with brain damage).  There
is another brain system responsible for taking the written word and
converting it into meaning.  Individulas who have problems with this are
called dyslexic.  It is much more rare for the problem to be associated
with a problem in the perceptual system.  Carolyn explained how the
Irlen lenses can be used to help those who DO have one kind of
perceptual problem.

Are we speaking about the same thing now?



Bob

Bob Zenhausern, Ph.D.        Internet: drz@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
St. John's University        Bitnet: drz@sjuvm.bitnet
SB 15 Marillac               Phone:  718-990-6447
Jamaica, NY 11439            Fax:    718-990-6705
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Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1992 09:12:58 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Anne Pemberton <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>
Subject:      Re: No time for a long message...
X-To:         AUTISM%SJUVM.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu
              Aug 15, 92 10:38 pm

CONGRATULATIONS!

         CONGRATULATIONS!

                  CONGRATULATIONS!

                to    DAN  &  LAUREN

          (and thanks for sharing your wonderfully

              good news with us all .......

      :-)     8-)     :-)     8-)    :-)     *-)

                                    Anne
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:37:41 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Evelyn Duncan <R3EJD@AKRONVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: colored overlays

What about the Reynold's colored plastic wrap?

Evelyn Duncan
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Date:         Sat, 15 Aug 1992 15:53:56 -0400
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         FARBER_R@SPCVXA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: losing speech

Thanks Carolyn,
                That was very interesting.Your explanation was
very clear.I'll try to research it here and see what I can come
up with.It must have been strange to have a problem corrected
that you didn't even know you had.Or were you aware?
Rosanne
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:42:40 -0400
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         FARBER_R@SPCVXA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: losing speech

Anne,
    I can also understand adolescents not wanting to look "wildly
different".Perhaps a business supply company would be a better source.
I'll check with my husband's office and other friends and relatives
who might have access to the overlay material you mentioned.
Rosanne
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