From: dah@tko.vtt.fi (David Harwood)
Subject: Re: Spiritual Gifts
Organization: VTT
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:47:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.210043.10771@athena.cs.uga.edu> hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
>A friend of mine, who is involved in the Messianic movement once pointed out
>to me that he noticed that many Jews who became Christians had visions,
>and for this reason, many Messinianics became Charismatics as well.  
>Paul Cain, for example, is Jewish, and the Lord has used him prophetically.
>Gentiles have visions and have the same gifts as well, but does anyone
>find that Jewish believers are more prone to have certain gifts?
>
>Link
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I happened to ask Bill Carlson something like this - whether Messianic
Jews had some experience of divine revelation, especially revealing Christ
to them. The reason I asked was that while I've had numerous Jewish friends
and acquaintances, none were Messianic Jews; most were scientists, not of
any Jewish faith (although surely some have religious intuitions), and a
few who were orthodox apparently did not have any vivid revelation which
influenced their faith or life, although they were very studious of Jewish
tradition, of course. To be honest, though, there was a puzzle for me,
because it was my impression from reading some of the most influential
rabbis over the centuries, that some (few) also experienced some revelation
of God, after the time of Jesus. Of course, the rabbis say that prophecy
died with the destruction of the Temple, or even sometime before. It would
seem that the orthodox Jews did not hear or see much of God anymore, although
there were rabbis, even if there were no priests or prophets. So did the
rabbis have some immediate calling or revelation from God, for their 
vocations? Even if most did not, I believe some must have had, which 
influenced their preservation and elaboration of Jewish traditions. 
(Of course, the same might be said about most Christian theologians and 
commentaries, as well.)

In my experience, in association with many Christian groups, only a few
have such experiences, but they are among the most influential in their
groups, and are very often either those who believe they have a calling
(vocation: pastors, priests, ministers - very often missionaries) or
who are converts. (Of course, all original Christians were converts; there
are also some sects which originally expected their members to have some
conversion experience, as a kind of baptism in Christ, for example, early
Friends (Quakers; many of whom are amazing Christians of my acquaintance).

I asked  Bill about this because I know very little about Messianic Jews,
about their conversion or way of life. Also, the New Testament, especially
the great apostle Paul is concerned with why did most of the Jews not
have faith in Jesus. Paul was very troubled by this, not only because of
persecution and hardship, but because they were his own people, Israel of
Patriachs and prophets, and of the Messiah.

Only Paul talks about this paradox: He says that the Jews, at large,
are blinded from seeing the glory of God in the revelation of Christ;
he says that this is providential of God, that they are blinded while
the Gentiles, who were ignorant of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob,
are to be reconciled with Him though Christ (those who have faith). He
seems to suggest a reason for this providential blindness - that the
Jews are to be humbled, while the Gentiles are to be raised up,
spiritually, so that both may be reconciled, equally, in the future
before God. Paul claims divine revelation that someday the Jews will
be reconciled with Christ, as if "a resurrection of the dead," and
warns that Christian Gentiles should not presume to supplant Israel,
since the Biblical prophecies and traditions originate and belong,
with their understanding, to them.

[By the way, there was a story of early Christianity which likens
Jesus to Joseph, who was given over by his jealous brothers to the
Gentiles, among whom he became the most powerful influential leader,
so that he was able to save not only the Gentiles but eventually his
own brothers, with whom he was reconciled. This was providential of
God, as we read in the conclusion of Exodus. (And even in his service,
Joseph asked to have his bones returned to to his own people. I am sure
that Jesus would have "his words" (remnant "bones" I suppose) returned
to his own people as well.]

I asked Bill C. about what revelation of Christ there was among Jews
today, that might cause so many to have faith in Jesus, after so many
centuries. Paul refers to the providential blindness of the Jews. It
seemed to me that it might be some sign if this darkness was being
pierced by a revelation of Christ, who is called the light of the world.

D.H.