HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Subject: Re: NeXTstep Terminals (was Re: In BYTE (NeXT) veritas)
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 23:21:33 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.091212.22877@RedBrick.COM> jfr@RedBrick.COM () writes:
[much stuff in this thread about how NeXT should come out with an
"NXTerminal" of sorts deeleted...]
>  Don't get me wrong.  I do NOT advocate the use of NeXTterminals for
>  the kind of things that most of us do (compile, develop, etc).  This
>  is for END USER delivery.

NO!!

NeXSTEP 486!

Even at current retail price ($1000 a copy), by the time that it comes
out (next March maybe?  I have no idea), a reasonable NeXTSTEP capable
system with NeXTSTEP will cost less than a decent color Xterminal.
Xterminals are not that cheap!  Performance will be better as well.

More PC's will be sold in the next hour than the total number of
Xterminals that will be sold in the next 3 months.  PC's just keep
getting cheaper, Xterminals just seem to be getting closer to the
IPC's and IPX's they replace.



andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com     | "We shall not cease from exploration
Andrew Loewenstern      |  And the end of our exploring
Cube Technologies, Inc. |  Will be to arrive where we started
                        |  And know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Subject: Re: I want my NTV (in 4.0)
Reply-To: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 05:36:20 GMT

Marcos Javier Polanco writes
> Does anybody know (or does anybody care) about full-motion digital video  
> on the NeXT?

From what I see on NeXT's part, they don't seem to care about anything but  
shipping more NeXTstations out the door.  The NeXTdimension could have been  
both affordable and a video power-house, but...

> The question is, will it be NeXT TV with a 10-foot screen and  
> HDTV resolution? If NeXT pursues this market properly, supporting PX64 and  
> MPEG compression schemes, then a NeXT can be infiltrated into every  
> American home in the guise of a sophisticated TV set.

NeXT seems to have a hard enough time getting promises they made a while back  
fulfilled (not that that won't stop them from making more).  Localization (as  
NeXT claims it is in 3.0) and real-time compression on the ND board are just  
two of the bigger unfulfilled promises mentioned in this and other groups by a  
bunch of people.

Also, I doubt that NeXT would bring down the cost of their machine to the price  
where people would honestly consider a NeXT-TV versus a regular TV.  And  
finally, people who aren't into computers are not going to want to wade through  
all the problems associated with operating one just to watch a TV show.
-- 
-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
-- NeXTmail ok
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: abell@netcom.com (Steven T. Abell)
Subject: Re: I want my NTV (in 4.0)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:34:25 GMT

shiva@vega.Stanford.EDU (Marcos Javier Polanco) writes:
> If NeXT pursues this market properly, supporting PX64 and  
> MPEG compression schemes, then a NeXT can be infiltrated into every  
> American home in the guise of a sophisticated TV set.

MPEG? Nooooooooooooo! Or at least give me a choice. MPEG is fine if you're
watching video, but its the wrong compressor to use if you want to edit video.
You can rebuild JPEG images in isolation, but MPEG requires running the frame
sequence, or at least a portion of it, to be able to show an individual frame.
This is a considerable loss of time for editing systems, which can benefit
from random image access.

Steve abell@netcom.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: andrew@cubetech.com
Subject: Re: NeXT RISC machine out in first half 93...!?
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 07:00:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.220751.8408@cube.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) writes:
>A NeXT representative told me NeXTSTEP 3.0 would be faster than 2.1 on  
>identical hardware this past summer.  So take the 200 MIPS with a grain of  
>salt!

They lied.  When it comes to technical issues, never belive anyone
from NeXT unless they work in building 2 at Redwood City (i.e. they
are a real engineer - don't belive NeXT's system engineers or the
district Reps. either) or they are in dev support.  But these people
just don't talk to very many people outside of NeXT (they certainly
don't talk to me... ;-).  I believe the people I talk to outside of
NeXT far more than anyone at NeXT who will tell me anything.

Especially don't believe anyone who lives in the carpeted area of
NeXT's main building or works in sales.


andrew

"What's the difference between a used-car salesman and a computer
salesman?  A used-car salesman knows when he is lying."
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com     | "We shall not cease from exploration
Andrew Loewenstern      |  And the end of our exploring
Cube Technologies, Inc. |  Will be to arrive where we started
                        |  And know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Subject: Re: Make it Cheap
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:26:56 GMT

Philip McDunnough writes

> With Windows' software of all types (and OS/2). The advantage of
> the 2 local bus schemes that they looked at seemed to be minimal.
> Perhaps if the local bus had a graphics' accelerator...

Actually, the advantage of the LocalBus *is* that it is just a
framebuffer.  'Graphics accelerators' only accelerate your graphics
if you don't care about fidelity of the imaging model.  Otherwise,
if you are build a DTP machine and you *do* care about imaging
quality, that you often have to write your own bits - framebuffer.
Or you have to translate one imageing model into another - and this
has quite a few performance penalties.

For example, lines.  Most graphics accelerators, when given the
endpoints to a line to draw put down pixels 'willy-nilly', not
caring about sub-pixel positioning.  (Some do, most notably XGA -
but then they often don't do it with enough precision.) So, you
have to decompose the line yourself - either into single pixel
writes, or small horizontal or vertical rectangles.

(Why is the pixelization of a line so important?  Think about
clipping and erasure).

--
Scott Byer                             NeXTMail: byer@mv.us.adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need help over in comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: feijai@endor.byu.edu (Sean Luke)
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:02:47 -0700
Reply-To: sean@digaudio.byu.edu

In article <1992Oct6.120605.1002@yvax.byu.edu>  writes:
>John Coolidge, who has for a long time insisted on the net that NeXTs are  
>inferior to Macs and now works for Apple, refuses to stop telling  
everyone  
>at comp.sys.mac.advocacy that NeXTSTEP comes free with NeXTs. 
					      ^^^^

Whoops.  Sorry--big blunder.  I meant that he insists NeXTSTEP DOESN'T  
come for free with NeXTs.

er, sorry...  :)

--

Sean Luke
Brigham Young University                   MILK:  It Comes From Cows
sean@digaudio.byu.edu  
NeXTmail and nifty Mac stuff welcome
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Subject: Re: PR Blunder of the Millennium!
Reply-To: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:40:27 GMT

In article <DJOHNSON.92Oct1200242@cayenne.gac.edu>  writes:
> 
> 
> The new issure of Time arrived in my mailbox today, accompanied by
> '(small) SPECIAL ISSUE: (big) BEYOND THE YEAR (*really* big) 2000 !!!
> What to expect in the new millennium.'  Some may say that it's too
> early to start slicing cocktail wienies, but apparently it's never too
> soon if you're an Executive Somesuch at Time and you're bored...
> 
>  "Impressive," I muse, turning the cover.  First thing: IBM ad.  "Hmm,
> I'll bet *they* were happy to snag the first page..."  I turn the page
> again: From the Managing Editor.  I start to read.  '"We should all be
> concerned about the future because we will have to spend the rest of
> your lives there," said the inventor Charles Kettering.  In our time,
> no symbol blah blah blah...We are happy that our plans for this
> project appealed so much to IBM that it offered to become the sole
> advertiser for this issue. 

Which perhaps was the blunder.  Just imagine if NeXT was that sole
advertiser (perhaps with Intel, Moto, DG, Abobe, etc)...

--
Nathan Janette		"I'm a NeXTstep man,
Dept MB&B, Yale Univ	 I'm a NeXTcube guy"
New Haven, CT
nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (NeXT)
From: sowa@netcom.com (Erik Sowa)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Make it Cheap
Date: 1 Oct 92 22:14:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.SOWA.92Oct1141414
	<1992Oct1.190315.28448@utstat.uucp>
Organization: Wahoo 5

>>>>> "Philip" == Philip McDunnough <philip@utstat.uucp> writes:

Philip> Why EISA or localbus? Localbus video was tested in PC World I
Philip> believe (or the other one) and found to be not much faster than
Philip> an ATI or S3 video card.

Yah, right. With what software? I would guess Windoze drivers that don't
know how to do local bus correctly. Just because Windoze can't take
advantage of it...

-- 
Erik Sowa (sowa@netcom.com)
From: maurices@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Maurice Shihadi)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why didn't Apple sue?
Date: 5 Oct 92 09:52:19 GMT
Organization: Coast Community College District, Costa Mesa, CA

I think that the differences are boarderline and both parties know it.
For example, the ADB keyboard connection on a Mac has four pins in it 
while the ADB connection on the NeXT has five; DIN 8 cabling on the NeXT
is wired oppositely from the Mac, etc., etc.  I don't think it matters 
much anymore since look and feel doesn't seem to be an issue.  

I would think that we'd all be much more concerned with reverse engineering and
dumping from oversees.  I wonder how many upstart companies spend all their
money on research and development only to be squashed and put out of business
by other companies that use legal resources to borrow design specs and 
manufacture competing products for less money before the original company
even breaks even.  Such practices hinder technological advancement by making
the process of research and development a liability.  Despite all that we
have companies such as NeXT and Apple that continue to innovate in directions
different from the norm while also turning a profit. So with all that in mind,
why doesn't Apple sue NeXT?  Maybe because NeXT is not a threat.  Maybe because
Apple is realizing what Steve Job's was getting at from the beginning, 
that computers should be easy to use; hence the downsizing of Apples product
line, the scaled down operating system and cheaper prices.  NeXT seems to be
a higher end product and Apple seems to be moving away from that so why bother
sueing.  Besides, the acceptance of an "Apple look and feel" can only serve
to help everyone as consumers move slowly into the age of computers and spend
more money thus further stimulating our computer industry to progress.


maurices
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: eps@futon.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott)
Subject: Re: Make it Cheap
Reply-To: eps@cs.sfsu.edu
Organization: San Francisco State University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 15:37:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.134738.7124@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp
	(Philip McDunnough) writes:
>Let's see 386+ cache controller +387. What is it that the 486 has that this
>combination does not?

The ability to convert between little-endian and big-endian
representation -=>FAST<=-.

					-=EPS=-
From: curtis@accnxt1.tamu.edu (Curtis Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Make it Cheap
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:17:41 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station

In article <80731@ut-emx.uucp> alex@fiskville.mc.utexas.edu writes:
# There seem to be a lot of people here who think that NeXT and NeXTstep  
# would be great to have if they could only get them cheap. Some would  
have  
# NeXT offer reduced performance systems, diskless systems, smaller  
# monitors, no frills and "consumer grade" systems in order to grab more  
# market share. People want the power of NeXTstep but they don't want to  
# spend the money to get it. Should NeXT cripple their machines with small  
# displays and cheaper components and release NeXTstep for Mac, DOS, and  
# TI-99?
# 
# No.
# 
# NeXT has already "sold their birthright" by doing away with the Optical  
# Disk (something which would be great on any system) and expansion slots  
# (no multiprocessor boards I guess)... two things which originally put  
NeXT  
# way ahead of the field have been undone to increase "market  
penetration".  
# Next we'll see the DSP removed, smaller monitors and (gak) VGA support,  
# and the demise of Display Postscript as the lowest common denominator  
gets  
# lower and lower. 
# 
# NeXT could have been (and may still be) the Rolls Royce of desktop  
# computers but this sort of "feature removal" may soon make it akin to  
the  
# Volkswagon. My point? If you want the top of the line you have to pay  
for  
# it. Rolls Royce doesn't have a lot of Market Penetration but they make a  
# damn fine car and they make them right. This, I think, is the way NeXT  
# should go. It is better in my opinion to serve 10 people well than to  
# serve 10,000 poorly.
# 
# Humbly (if a bit fervently)
# Alex Currier
# Texas Union MicroCenter HotLine
# University of Texas at Austin


The computer workstation market is far different from the automobile  
market (I would expect even a t-sip to know that), But if you must make  
the analogy, you have it all wrong.  The NeXT would not be a Rolls Royce,  
more like a Honda Accord (Rolls Royce we'll assign to a Cray and Porsche  
we'll assign to a Sun Sparcstation10).  

NeXT can do without a lot of things and still keep it's customers happy.   
The DSP chip isn't necessary for everyone so why isn't there a  
configuration without the DSP.  There are still a LOT of people who view  
computers and utilitarian and not as a work of art.  Personally, I think  
that the OS is the best on the market and could stand on it's own without  
a lot of specialized add ons (that's what my roomate calls them).

To refer to your automobile analogy,  Honda Accord is the best selling  
import in the country and has the highest percentage of satisfied users.   
Honda doesn't have all the special add ons such as a RR.  And P.S.  Rolls  
Royce did file for barkruptcy because they could seel enough cars and had  
to be bought.


gig'em Ags 

--
Curtis A. Johnson

------------------------
curtis@accnxt1.tamu.edu 
NeXTmail accepted 
Texas A&M University     
------------------------
From: dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXTStep :-) , Wind/X11 :-(   [was: In BYTE (NeXT) ]
Distribution: world
Date: 26 Sep 92 11:06:02 PST
Organization: Not an Organization

>In article <1992Sep25.175503.6592@leland.Stanford.EDU> kocks@jessica.stanford.edu (Peter Kocks) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep24.191219.29130@fnbc.com> billb@fnbc.com (Bill Burcham) writes:
>
>This discussion exemplifies precisely why NeXTStep is great and why
>Windows and X are horrible.  The programmer is forced to obey
>guidelines that don't necessarily make sense to him/her.  But, at some
>later time the programmer realizes the point of why the guideline
>exists and to his/her surprize their program already conforms to the
>standard.  This creates an environment (your windowing system) which
>is both consistent and complex.

    Bull****!  The whole point of a GUI (that's graphics USER interface) it
    to accomodate the *USER* as much as possible within a set of
    guidelines.  It is still possible to maintain a semblence of order, but
    there is such a thing as being too restrictive and, frankly, NeXTSTEP
    is too restrictive in many ways.

    Somebody over there decided not only to force windows to the front when
    someone makes them the key window, but also to simply NOT provide *ANY*
    method to make it the key window without bringing it to the front. What
    idiot decided that ?  I don't mind the *default* being to bring it to
    the front, that makes sense, but to not even provide a method to
    activate a window without bringing it to the front is stupid.

    I'm really getting quite sick of it, I can't have more then three or
    four windows on the screen as it stands now simply because it takes
    too much work to keep them all properly oriented with respect to each
    other.

>Now, it is understable that people get frustrated learning about
>things like alt-click after two years of using the system, but the
>advantage is that new users don't need to know all the cute little

    I know about alt-click, it's totally backwards from what I, personally,
    want to accomplish, and that is for NeXTSTEP to allow me to temporarily
    make windows the 'key window' so I can type in them WITHOUT rearranging
    them.

					-Matt

>Just some musings....
>
>--Peter Kocks
>  kocks@chemsitry.stanford.edu

--

    Matthew Dillon		dillon@Overload.Berkeley.CA.US
    1005 Apollo Way		uunet.uu.net!overload!dillon
    Incline Village, NV. 89451	ham: KC6LVW (no mail drop)
    USA 			Sandel-Avery Engineering (702)831-8000

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: brunkhorst@mayo.edu (Geoff Brunkhorst)
Subject: Re: Is Garfinkel's and Mahoney's NeXTstep programming book out yet?
Reply-To: brunkhorst@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Foundation, Rochester MN. Campus
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 12:08:10 GMT

In article <BvDM93.MrD@news.cso.uiuc.edu> erno@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Erno Pena)  
writes:
> I just got the Winter '92 NeXTWORLD and saw in the back an ad for Garfinkel's  
> and Mahoney's NeXTstep programming book. Is it out yet? My $40 is waiting.

I called SpringerVerlag on Monday, and the anticipated ship date is
late November, 1992.

-geoff
---------------------------------------------------------------
Geoffrey Brunkhorst, RCF                    brunkhorst@Mayo.edu
Guggenheim 10                                    (507) 284-1805
Mayo Foundation, Rochester MN, 55905 USA     fax (507) 284-5231
From: jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT RISC machine out in first half 93...!?
Date: 4 Oct 92 22:07:51 GMT
Organization: Hand Held Products, Inc.

In article <1992Oct2.150117.2248@bmers95.bnr.ca> hlam@bnr.ca (Hayward Lam)  
writes:
> 
> NeXT was in the Ottawa trade show that I went to 2 days ago.
> A NeXT representative I talked to indicated that a 200 MIPS NeXT RISC machine
> will be delivered in 2nd 93. It is going to be called the "brick" for sure.
> The representative would not confirm which CPU is used. 
> Anyways. Developers will have faster machines to develop engineering 
> applications!!!
> 
> 
> Hayward
> email to hlam@bnr.ca

A NeXT representative told me NeXTSTEP 3.0 would be faster than 2.1 on  
identical hardware this past summer.  So take the 200 MIPS with a grain of  
salt!

Jim
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: zhao@nmsu.edu (Z. Zhao)
Subject: NeXT color Mag
Reply-To: zhao@nmsu.edu
Organization: Computing Research Lab
Distribution: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:10:32 GMT

One month ago I heard some complain from this news group about the
Color Mag of Next, mainly for its flashing.

Then I read an article from UnixWorld "Faster Color Comes to the Black
Next" which says:"We had no problem sitting 15 inches in front of the
screen 2 to 3 hours at a stretch." 

How do you evaluate the Color Mag comparing with other color monitors?

I am planning to buy a Next for myself, but I have very poor eyes. So,
I want your opinions, you netters are more straight. :)


ZiZi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Re: PR Blunder of the Millennium!
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 21:25:25 GMT

Judy Halchin writes
> > Yea, Clark has been a long-time Amigaphile...
> 
> In what I believe is his most recent novel (I don't have it
> here and can't recall the title), the main character uses a
> "NeXT Mach 8" or "NeXT Model 10" or something like that.  It
> was even spelled with the correct capitalization.
> 
"The Ghost of the Grand Banks."  And the computer is a NeXT Mark IV.   
In typical Clarkian fashion, he inserts a parenthetical comment that  
in that year (2012) the NeXT was no longer a cutting edge computer.

--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: ifenton@crc.ac.uk (I. Fenton)
Subject: 24 hours of advocacy...
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:03:51 GMT

dear net,

looking at teh various advocacy groups here, i notice what 24 hours worth
of advocacy leads to :-

  comp.os.os2         103 postings (mostly os/2 vs. windows-nt)
  comp.sys.amiga       89 postings (mostly amiga vs. atari falcon)
  comp.sys.mac         62 postings (mostly mac vs. pc's)
  comp.os.mw-windows   24 postings (mostly is windows an os ?)
  comp.sys.next        15 postings (mostly should nextstep be cheaper)
  comp.sys.acorn        5 postings (mostly about acorn's share price)

as can be seen most of the discussion is about one system vs. another, rather
than discussion about that particular os/system.  this is interesting as most
groups have their zealots saying that other people should leave their group
alone.  does the net have any comment on these figures ?!


=============================================================================
IAIN FENTON                             | All errors of spelling, grammar &
Institute of Medical Genetics           | fact are due to a missing <Del> key
University of Wales College of Medicine |====================================
Heath Park                              | "No man should marry until he has
Cardiff  CF4 4XN                        |  studied anatomy and dissected at
U.K.                                    |  least one woman" - de Balzac
=============================================================================
Voice = +44 - 222 - 744049   | In 1912, Jack Johnson, the first black world
Fax   = +44 - 222 - 747603   | heavyweight boxing champion, was refused
Email = fenton@uk.ac.cardiff | permission to board the Titanic because of
   (or) wmgif@uk.ac.cardiff  | his colour.
   (or) ifenton@uk.ac.crc    |
=============================================================================


Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy