HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Glenn Stauffer <stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Re: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6BB2DE469034333@mac1.beardsley.swarthmore.edu>
X-Xxdate: Fri, 21 Aug 92 04:33:56 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 03:34:25 GMT

In article <1738ckINNs46@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> David Iverson,
diverson@phys.ksu.edu writes:
>bears are intelligent and warily curious.  And I'm happy to know that
>they're numbers are increasing in the Northeast.
>

Good to hear after reading so many articles about bear poachers tempted
by the high price
of Black Bear gall bladders.  I've heard reports of people offering
hunters in PA money
for the gall bladder - the report I read said that the State Game
Commission felt that
poaching was rare.  Not so in N Carolina and Tennessee where poaching is
a real problem.

I used to come upon bear on occaision while biking in the woods of Maine
- quite a thrill!
 Wish I'd come upon poachers when I had a gun near at hand!
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:13:46 GMT

In article <86708@netnews.upenn.edu>,
rsk@aspen.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.172708.25509@walter.cray.com> hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens) writes:
>>Well, my wife and I had a great time in Colo. backcountry.  We stayed mostly
>>in the forests, Pike Roosevelt, etc and now I know why.  We went to RMNP
>>and they did not allow dogs in the backcountry!!! I think that sucks!  [...]
>
>First off, I'm a dog owner, and I love my pet dearly; I would defend Alethea
>with my last breath, if necessary.  But I don't think she belongs in the
>backcountry, nor do I think she needs to be there.
>
>She doesn't belong there because she is likely to disturb the critters
>that live there, even though she is quiet, well-behaved and stays close
>to me and on the trail.  She might bring a disease or parasite in, even
>though I make every effort to keep her healthy.  She might adversely
>affect the experience of other hikers I may meet, who are there to enjoy
>the native flora and fauna, not my pooch.
>
If the above is a good enough reason consider this that I heard a
Yosemitee NP ranger tell someone:  Dogs tend to annoy bears.
Individual bears deal with their annoyance in a variety of ways,
some turn their backs and amble away, some sulk, some try
intimidation (which works well on the more intelligent dogs), some
bears lack a sense of humor and a dead dog is the result.
From: marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com (Randy Marks)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Nalgene bottle lids (need source)
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:47:33 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Colorado Springs


In article <Bt4uJ5.J4K@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, grady@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Grady) writes...
>I have cracked several Nalgene bottle lids (tightening too much, I guess),
>and would like to obtain some replacements (the bottles are in fine shape).
>Does anyone know of a source for ordering just the lids, or have a phone
>number for the Nalgene company? Thanks in advance.
They replaced one of my lids free.  They sent the wrong size though - maybe
a bad day in customer service....

Call or write to:
Nalge Co.
a Subsidiary of Sybron Corp.
Special Products Dept.
Box 20365
Rochester, NY  14602-0365
(716)586-8800

	Randy Marks
(UUCP)	                {decvax,ucbvax,allegra}!decwrl!ssdevo.enet!marks
(INTERNET)              marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com
(domain-based INTERNET) marks%ssdevo.enet@decwrl.dec.com
..........................................................................
	"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe
	while the legislature is in session."
..........................................................................
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: accessible = !wilderness
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:39:54 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.211312.15660@news.uiowa.edu>,
jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>From article <1992Aug17.202911.1069@javelin.sim.es.com>,
>by biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel):
>>
>> Here in Utah there are many sparsely populated areas, and large
>> tracts of wilderness. Some areas under consideration for wilderness
>> status are accessible via existing jeep trails.
>
>Take a look at the Mount Evans Wilderness Area in Colorado.  This has
>a paved state highway that cuts right to the very center of the area
>(the summit of Mount Evans).  The wilderness area covers a large area
>in all directions from the summit, with the exception of a narrow corridor
>along the highway right-of-way.  Other than the Abyss Lake area, none of
>this was designated as wilderness 20 years ago.
>
>The Lost Creek Wilderness in Colorado also includes an old mining road,
>a road that now serves as part of the main loop of trails that
>circumnavigates the core of the area.  15 years ago, this wasn't
>officially a wilderness area, just a wild area, and I think the old
>road was part of the reason.  The old road is now completely inside the
>wilderness, and off limits to motor vehicles.
>
>Of course, if the folks from the "Wise Use" movement had their way, we'd
>have logging roads in all of our wilderness areas so that mature and dead
>trees could be removed in order to "prevent forest fires and promote
>development of new biomass in order to reduce the threat posed by
>greenhouse gasses."  Danny Quayle seems to be spouting the "Wise Use"
>line quite a bit these days, so this is a real threat!
>
There is also an extreme position that is rarely considered:  Total
closure of an area to all humans, even backpackers and day hikers.
I'm actually in favor of this, at least for finite periods.  If
someone were to seriously propose that Yosemitee Valeey be totally
closed for 50 years (prefereably with an appropriate clean up
beforehand) I'ld go along with it even though I'ld miss the
climbing.  This is may be the only way to really repair the damage
in some areas.  [Parts of Mojave could probably use a "rest" lasting
a couple of centuries!]
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: scott@phylo.life.uiuc.edu (Scott Howard)
Subject: Re: Bear Identification
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 17:18:34 GMT
Keywords: bears

Telling the difference between Black Bears and Grizzlies is very easy-

The highest point on a Grizz' body is its front shoulders, whereas
a black bear's head is its head.

A Grizz' toes point in, a black's point out.
From: jjh00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
Summary: Tourons we have with us always
Keywords: imbeciles bears encounters
Date: 16 Aug 92 00:01:19 GMT
Reply-To: jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Distribution: na
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


  privette@frodo.colorado.edu (Jeff Privette) writes:
>
> Maybe 15- to 20 people were watching a mother black bear and her 3 cubs
> forage on a hillside adjacent to the road -- the bears were not more than
> 40 yards away ... one guy was bound and determined to
> get his $5 entrance fee's worth.  Impressing us all with his athletic
> prowess, he firmly grasped his instamatic camera, jumped the ditch, and
> started making his way up the hill, through the woods,
> and toward the bears.


When my family camped in the Rockies in 1968, we had a similar experience --
cars stopped on the road to watch several bears,
including a mother with cubs,
actually out on the road, begging for handouts.

Some idiot had given his six-year-old daughter a bag of marshmallows,
and was trying to convince her to feed the cubs so that he could
take pictures.  She was actually starting to do so as we arrived.

My father scooped up the little girl and put her in the car on
her mom's lap, then picked the father up by his lapels and
backed him up against his own car, shouting at him the while.

I'd never known the Old Man had it in him.


---
Joel Hanes
From: kenm@array.com (Ken Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: accessible = !wilderness (WAS Re: Oregon Wallowas
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:16:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: monarch.2839
Organization: Array Microsystems, Colorado Springs, CO. USA

davis@ee.rochester.edu (Al Davis) writes:
: >In article <e8FX02yd1dbo01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes) writes:
: >>  "Everyone and everything should be banned from the
: >>   *wilderness* except the small number of people who are
: >>   willing and able to get there the hard way, and their
: >>   simple gear.  If impact increases, access should be made
: >>   more difficult, and more restrictions placed on gear."

One small question on this matter.  If everyone and everything should be 
banned from the *wilderness*, why the hell do we need more and more of it
each year so that less and less of the people can use it?


Merf
From: duanej@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Duane Jacobson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Going to Oregon
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:57:17 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

>Due to circumstances beyond my control I find myself heading
>to Portland next week with absolutely nothing to do once I 
>arrive.  Since time is short, I am looking for some quick info
>on places to camp/hike within a reasonable ( ~2 hours) drive of
>the Portland airport.  I will be in the area for 5 days.  

Another poster mentioned Eagle Creek. This is one of the most spectacular
and, of course, one of the most heavily used trails in the Columbia River
Gorge.  Do it on a weekday and/or in the morning if you hate crowds.
Thefts from cars parked at Gorge trailheads is pretty common, so  don't leave
anything valuable in your car.  If you're planning on an overnight trip,
you might leave your car unlocked with a sign in the window saying that
the car is unlocked and there is nothing valuable in it.  Some theives
broke into my truck at the Eagle Creek trailhead, and all there was to
take was one of those cardboard screens to put in your windshield, a couple
of screwdrivers and a pair of pliers.

If you're up for a two-hour drive, try the Indian Heaven Wilderness
near Mt. Adams (Washington state).

Also, about 10-15 miles from the coast on Hwy 26 is Saddle Mountain.  It's a
4 mile hike to the summit, with views of the Pacific, the Columbia
River, and several volcanic peaks (Ranier, St Helens, Hood, etc.)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: Wanted, good 4-5 day East Coast hike
Organization: Censored
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:16:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.125823.14205@crd.ge.com> kenneth m martin,
martink@homer.NoSubdomain.NoDomain writes:
>I've heard that the Pisca (spelling) National Forest in N.C. is nice. 
>Any comments ?

The Pisgah NF is a very large, only slightly continuous forest in Western
NC. It is accessible from any number of roads, including the Blue Ridge
Parkway.  There are all levels of "wilderness" available, from technical
climb faces to Sliding Rock, a tourist splash in frigid water.  It
includes (I believe) the Linville Falls/River/Gorge area.  The gorge is
considered a difficult trail, with wonderful views.  A permit is
required.  The Shining Rock wilderness is lovely, easily accessible, and
overused.  There is Mt Mitchell, highest point in US east of Mississippi
River.  The AT cuts through NC.  Finding beautiful secluded spots is up
to you; of course I can't divulge my favorites.

May I suggest calling the following numbers.  These outfit houses carry
NF maps and usually are VERY helpful. They can also hook you up with the
local ranger stations for Pisgah.   (This is no commercial endorsement,
merely a way to disseminate information).  Outback Trading Company (ask
for Charles)  919-847-1099, and Great Outdoor Provision Co. 919-833-1741.

Can you tell I'm from NC?  Would love for you to come visit, but a) don't
trash the place any more than it's already trashed, and b) use your maps
and compass.  Don't become one of our yearly statistics of macho
guys/gals who wander off, never to be heard from again.  Check article in
Outside mag earlier this year about getting lost in Linville Gorge.  A
must read for people who think it can't happen to them.  Ignore this
paragraph if it doesn't apply to you.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: akins@cis.ohio-state.edu (gregory adkins)
Subject: Fontana Dam
Originator: akins@flamingo.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:22:49 GMT

A few days ago someone posted a reply to a request for camping
areas along the East Coast.  The reply suggested Fontana Dam
which was "south of there".  Since I did not see the original 
posting, I do not know where there is.

Could someone give me more exact locations.  E-mail please.

Greg Akins  Akins@cis.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bglenden@colobus.cv.nrao.edu (Brian Glendenning)
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:06:34 GMT


We pack our Peak 1 inside and worry about it leaking; consequently we
always take along a fuel bottle. Is it safe to pack a filled Peak 1?

Brian
--
       Brian Glendenning - National Radio Astronomy Observatory
bglenden@nrao.edu          Charlottesville Va.           (804) 296-0286
From: daryl@bovill.auspex.com (Daryl Starr)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose & Elk
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:42:17 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems

In article <7cc9023y1eQ301@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, jjh00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes) writes:
|> 
|> I hope you misunderstood.
|> 
|> Wapiti is the Native American name for the Pronghorn "Antelope",
|> a much smaller animal than Moose, American Elk, or European
|> Elk.   Wapiti have distinctive short vertical antlers with
|> sharp tips, and vivid rump patches.  American Elk have much
|> larger curved antlers, and the male has a heavy rough
|> shaggy coat about the neck and shoulders that bears no
|> resemblance to the sleek wapiti at any time of year.
|> 
|> Source: A Field Guide to the Mammals (of North America)
|>         RT Petersen Field Guide series
|> 
|> ---
|> Joel Hanes
|> 

Buy a new field guide. I have hunted, dressed and eaten North American elk in Idaho. I lived
there for many years. The locals use wapati and elk interchangably.

Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary says the wapati = elk.

Daryl
From: randy@raven.alaska.edu (Randy Hayman)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose, Elk and other assorted beast.
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:03:04 GMT
Reply-To: randy@raven.alaska.edu (Randy Hayman)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Aug19.205948.13887@lsil.com>, gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill
Gascoyne) writes:
|>
|>In article 1911@colorado.edu, sherod@news.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod)
|>writes:
|>>
|>>And of course American "Antelope" aren't really antelope either.
|>>
|>>Confused?
|>>
|>>Scott
|>
|>I am not certain about whether or not the pronghorn (American
|>antelope) is
|>or is not a true antelope.  I have always thought that the biggest
|>difference
|>between deer and antelope was that deer (and elk and moose) have
|>ANTLERS (which
|>are shed and re-grown every year and are exclusively male) 

Uh, pardon me, but caribou are deer, and BOTH sexes have antlers (I
agree with the 
antlers part).

|>and antelope have HORNS (which are permanent and may or may not be on
|>the females).
|>
|>---
|>1. Bill Gascoyne
|>


Randy
sxrmh1@orca.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Subject: Re: GAZ stove and lantern
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:07:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.191846.11171@mdd.comm.mot.com>, rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com (Doug Rudoff) writes:
> 
> Anyone have any comments about the GAZ stoves and lanterns for
> backpacking use?
> 
> The reason I ask is that I wasn't that impressed with the MSR
> Whisperlite: White gas on my hands, having to pump the container (why
> don't they add a pressure gauge!), the priming, etc.

The Coleman Peak 1 Multi-Fuel and its MSR-like sibling, the Apex, are
fairly light, burn hot, and simmer very well.  I have a Multi-Fuel, and
I usually don't have to prime unless it's very, very cold or it's switched
to kerosene.  

I got a demo of the Apex the other day.  It's like a Multi-Fuel that's
been dismembered into an MSR configuration.  No priming, same performance
as the Multi-Fuel. It's not as compact as MSRs, though, and it doesn't
really save you any weight over the Multi-Fuel.
I wonder why they didn't make it a multi-fuel.  It looks like it
would just be a matter of putting in their standard kerosene generator.
 
> It seems that with the GAZ all you have to do is light it. The newer
> catridges with the butane/propane mix can handle colder temperatutes
> and the lantern looks useful. Is it easy to transfer an unfinished
> cartridge between a stove an lantern?

I assume you're talking about the Bleuet with the large valved cartridges.
Based on two trips with one I'd say the little collet system they have
allows you to remove and install appliances with a lot less gas
leakage than stoves that use propane bottles or those little threaded
butane cartridges.  I don't know about the 20% propane helping all that
much in cold weather.  If it was really cold I would think that just the
propane would vaporize, leaving you with pure, cold, non-vaporizing butane.  
But there are ways of getting a cartridge up to operating temperature 
and keeping it there that aren't too much more hassle than messing with a 
gasoline or kerosene stove.

Butane stoves are nice when you've got a full cartridge, but you can
never tell without a scale how much fuel is left, and they can perform
miserably when the cartridge gets less than about 1/3 to 1/2 full.

> Since I hear all these raves about the Whisperlite maybe it's better
> than I think it is. But I haven't heard anything about the GAZ stuff
> here, so I've been wondering how well they work.

My one hangup with them is that the priming flame often doesn't 
want to play over the generator.   I found this to be a real problem  
when trying to start the Internationale on kerosene.  

No stove is perfect.  Every one I've ever come across had some little
drawback to annoy techno-weenies like me.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reece			"Oop. Ack. Pfffthpt"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			- Bill the Cat 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Groenke <kevin@ssc.space.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Thermarest vs. Ridgerest or Ensolite?
Organization: Shepherd Labs
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:58:24 GMT

I've tried most sorts of pads available
and have decided that ThermaRests are
worth the investment.  They are the most
comfortable pads I've slept on.

Another great feature that ensolites can't compare
to is the pack size.  I use the ultralight 3/4, it rolls
to about 8" long x 6" diameter, This is great if your 
backpacking.  It's also small enough to fit inside
even the smallest sleeping bag stuff sacks.  I
think it's at least as well padded as an ensolite.

ThermaRests are susceptable to leaks: ie hot embers,
sharp little rocks, etc..., but they are very easily repaired.

Believe it or not I am not are ThermaRest spokesman, 
although they would probably want me to be!!
***********************************************
Kevin J. Groenke	
Student Lab Services Coordinator				___			o		 					_	o
Shepherd Laboratories							_____		( 		\-						(  	\-
University of Minnesota						___		(*) \ (*)			(*) \ (*)
From: barry@uts.amdahl.com (Barry Needham)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
Keywords: bears encounters hiking
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:34:37 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece) writes:

>In article <1992Aug14.091635.3126@regina.cs.uregina.ca>, craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Craig Knelsen) writes:

>> I have been reading this newsgroup for a few months and don't recall seeing
>> any posts about bear encounters on the hiking trails. Do people just not
>> bother with posting articles about bear encounters and how they dealt with it
>> or are encounters really that infrequent and of little interest to others?

>This was encounter #4 in 25 years in the Sierra, involving a total of 5-6
>adults and 2-3 cubs.

This is always an interesting subject.  The population seems to be divided
between those who want to see a bear and those who hope they donUt.

Over the last ten years it seems that I see bears on more trips than I donUt;
after applying a filter for winter trips and time above 13,000 feet.  IUve
seen them at all times of the day and night, on trail and off,  adults alone,
adults and cubs, cubs alone.

Frequency?  High in the Sierra, Glacier, Alberta and the Yukon.  Moderate at
the Tetons and Trinity area.  Low at Yellowstone. (But saw lots of everything
else!)

Must be my after-shave, NOT!

Regards,
   Barry.

-- 
Barry Needham          barry@uts.amdahl.com          USA (408) 992-2527
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose & Elk
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:10:36 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug20.174145.25128@lsil.com> gascan@dcst16.dc writes:
>In article 14160@auspex-gw.auspex.com, johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>>
>>If Bullwinkle was mentioned along time ago we could have saved a lot of
>>bandwidth.
>>
>
>How important is saving bandwidth?

Almost as important as a sense of humor.

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: sheart@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Saltheart Foamfollowe)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backcountry Coffee:  Heresy!!!!!!
Date: 17 Aug 92 12:53:38 GMT
Organization: The Tower of Zot - (716)691-3865

johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:

> On a recent fishing trip we were actually talking about how "regular"
> one is when out in the backcountry.  It dont' think it has anything to 
> do with instant vs. fresh brewed coffee.
 
Actually... I have noticed this myself.  I usually do take some coffee
into the backcountry, but only because I enjoy the taste of it.  While 
out there, I certainly don't 'need' it the way I do when I am in more
'civilized' (?!) surroundings of the concrete jungle.  IN fact, when I am 
out backpacking, i find that I usually wake up a hell of a lot earlier, 
despite the fact that I am much more tired when I go to bed and usually 
go to bed later when backpacking, and I have absolutely no problem 
getting up in the morning when I am backpacking.  Back home though, about 
the only way you are going to get me up is to light the bed on fire....
 
I still dream of walking out into the woods or desert to become a hermit, 
never to be heard from again... would it really be that bad?  I doubt
it..
 
   -Adrian

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Real Life:  Adrian Zannin            |  Riker: "Looks like he died in |
|  Internet:  sheart@toz.buffalo.ny.us |          his sleep."           |
|       CIS:  75360,630                |                                |
|--------------------------------------|   Worf: "What a horrible way   |
|    >  This space for rent <          |          to die."              |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+