HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:54:49 -0600
Reply-To:     Eric Peters <elpeters@LAMAR.COLOSTATE.EDU>
From:         Eric Peters <elpeters@LAMAR.COLOSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Irradiated Foods
X-To:         Howard_E._Meyerson.OSBU_North@xerox.com
X-cc:         BIOSPH-L@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

Howard Myerson asks:

>You said that Cobalt-60, which is used for irradiating food,
>has a half life of 5.26 years.  How long is the half life of the
>resultant radiation in the food? 5.26 years is a lot longer
>than the days, weeks, or months which elapse between
>treatment and consumption.

Yours is a common, misconception, Howie.  Irradiating food does NOT make
it radioactive.  Cobalt-60 produces high-energy gamma radiation (also beta
particles, but those cannot penetrate the food, as they are stopped in the
air on their way to the food).  The gamma radiation kills bacteria, molds,
and other microorganisms that cause the food to spoil.   The only way to
make food (or anything else) radioactive is to 1) irradiate it with neutrons,
which can cause certain elements in the food to be transformed into radioactive
elements (this can only occur in a nuclear reactor) or 2) contaminate the food
by sprinkling radioisotopes on it (e.g., fallout fromnuclear bombs or reactor
explosions).

Please let me know if you have other questions.

Eric


* Eric L. Peters                                 Voice:    (303) 491-5343 *
* Department of Radiological Health Sciences       FAX:          491-0623 *
* Colorado State University                                               *
* Fort Collins, CO 80523           INTERNET: elpeters@LAMAR.COLOSTATE.EDU *
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: University of Kentucky
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 11:02:40 EST
Reply-To:     "Crovo, Bob" <CROVO@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
From:         "Crovo, Bob" <CROVO@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Dioxin
X-To:         green@indycms.BITNET, biosph-l@ubvm.BITNET

I've searched the archives and see lots of references to dioxins and
furans but I have some questions that have not been answered.
I belong to a food co-op that is concerned about the environment.
We have been considering replacing poly bags with cellophane bags.
Our tests have shown cello bags superior in some characteristics
but our concern is with the manufacture of the cello bags.  That's
where these questions come in.

Is dioxin actually contained in some/all cellophane or is dioxin
_only_ a by-product?  If it's contained in *some* cellophanes, how
can one tell?

Which chemical form of dioxin is involved with cellophane?  How
dangerous or toxic is this form among the "spectrum" of dioxins?

Does dioxin toxicity break down over time?  How much time?

What else is interesting to know about dioxins in relation to cello
bags used to hold food products?  Are there other similar chemicals
to be concerned about?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:45:20 -0600
Reply-To:     Eric Peters <elpeters@LAMAR.COLOSTATE.EDU>
From:         Eric Peters <elpeters@LAMAR.COLOSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Free Radicals
X-To:         Howard_E._Meyerson.OSBU_North@xerox.com
X-cc:         BIOSPH-L@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

I was discussing the lifetime of free radicals in living tissues following
irradiation with one of our radiobiologists today, and he told me that their
mean lifespan is on the order of picoseconds to nanoseconds.  You are therefore
unlikely to transport thr food from the irradiatator to your mouth before
they are gone.  I suggest we agree to stop talking about free radical ingestion
altogether, and discuss instead their possible role in forming exotic
chemical compounds.

Eric


* Eric L. Peters                                 Voice:    (303) 491-5343 *
* Department of Radiological Health Sciences       FAX:          491-0623 *
* Colorado State University                                               *
* Fort Collins, CO 80523           INTERNET: elpeters@LAMAR.COLOSTATE.EDU *
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: BIOSPH-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
X-VMS-To: BIOSPH-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU "Executive Office of:Sean A. Barnett"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:38:13 -0400
Reply-To:     BRANDES@CORAL.BUCKNELL.EDU
From:         BRANDES@CORAL.BUCKNELL.EDU
Subject:      reply
X-To:         BIOSPH-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU

I don't know if you got my last message. I wrote one back after you wrote
to me and explained your "Executive Office" but I tried to send it directly
to your sabarnett@ualr.edu adress.  I never got a signal saying my message was
 sent so I decided to write again.  I am a senior at Bucknell University.  I am
an Environmental Studies major here.  I am working on this mail network
independently, that is not with a newsgroup.  I am working on a final project
for a Management class.  I do not believe I am set up to work on internet, but
I appreciate your offer of a host. See ya!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: BIOSPH-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
X-VMS-To: BIOSPH-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU "Chris Finney"
MIME-version: 1.0
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:42:44 -0400
Reply-To:     BRANDES@CORAL.BUCKNELL.EDU
From:         BRANDES@CORAL.BUCKNELL.EDU
Subject:      Re: thanks!!
X-To:         BIOSPH-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU

I am new to this mail system so I apologize for any mistakes I am making.
I did not understand your tip on where to place the cursor.  Do I place it
 underthe last subject heading or the person's name or their adress??? Please
 help.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA
X-Envelope-to: biosph-l@UBVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"biosph-l@ubvm"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:39:00 EST
Reply-To:     ELLI8369@SNYPLAVA.BITNET
From:         ELLI8369@SNYPLAVA.BITNET
Subject:      plastic recycling

Plastic does play an important part of everyday life.  More durable than
cardboard.  Yet I have one difficulty.  While in other parts of NYS plastic and
also metal recycling is law(and they also have recycling facilities nearby),  Pl
   attsburgh lacks all recycling facilities for plastics and metals...only paper
    is
recycled here.  It needs a change.

 Dawn Elliott (elli8369@snyplava.bitnet)
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X-VMS-To: IN%"BIOSPH-L@UBVM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:14:00 PDT
Reply-To:     Marianne Dugan <MDUGAN@OREGON.BITNET>
From:         Marianne Dugan <MDUGAN@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      WHY THE EXCITEMENT?

In response to JALOVE's note...

I think he asked a good question...On the other hand, I think we
DO get "excited" about car exhaust, etc., (at least I do, and
that's why I bike to school in the rain!), but also we realize we
must be ever vigilant against newly-evolving threats to our
health and the environment.  Just as quickly as we begin cleaning
up this mess we've gotten ourselves into (car exhaust,
deforestation, nuclear plants, etc.), those lovely folks from the
think tanks think up some new horror to impose on society and to
make Dow or Dupont or Weyerhaueser or [you get the point]
more $$$$.  I think that's why it may seem to JALOVE that that's
where all the "excitement" is--because we excited ones tend to
assume everyone's already aware of the dangers that have been
around a few years and are being dealt with, little by little.
From what little I've read about irradiated foods, on top of its
as yet uncertain effects on human health, and even apart from its
certain effect on the environment around the irradiation plants
proposed, to me its very worst aspect is that it allows the
nuclear industry yet another reason to keep producing nuclear
waste....on the pretense of having something to do with it (that
was the original promise of nuclear power, that it would process
all the byproducts from nuclear weapons...turns out that 1) it's
not true, and 2) that argument allowed the industry to lull




----------------------------------------------------------------
Marianne Dugan  mdugan@oregon.uoregon.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 09:33:16 -0600
Reply-To:     Eric Peters <elpeters@LAMAR.COLOSTATE.EDU>
From:         Eric Peters <elpeters@LAMAR.COLOSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Free Radicals, and Why the Excitement?
X-To:         BIOSPH-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu, gordon@TRAMP.COLORADO.EDU

Allen Gordon writes:

>It's not just up to the radio-biologists adn bio-chemists to say what is harm-
>less.  You can't just take something apart, analyze its component parts, put
>it back together and expect it to work, unless you're talking about machines.
>It just doesn't work when you're dealing with something as complex as
>and organic systems.  The response of the organism, people, have to be factored
>>into this.  If someone doesn't feel right after eating irradiated food, then
>that's a legitimate problem, even if double blind experiments show otherwise.
>Scientific analysis is a good tool, but its not the be-all and the end-all and
>its not infallible.

You're right, it is not 'just up to the radiobiologists and biochemists to say
what is harmless'.  However, these people have to provide the data through
which we (by way of our regulatory agencies) make our decisions about what
risks we are prepared to accept.  Of course scientists are not infallable,
because the way we do science doesn't deal in absolutes (by definition,
hypothesis testing covers only the falsification of one or more hypotheses,
not every possible hypothesis in the Universe).

Sometimes it is necessary to look at simpler systems than whole organisms to
get at the mechanisms of potential effects.  For example, free radical
production and removal rates are studied in cultured cell lines, not in whole
animals.  Toxicity testing is often done using cell cultures, and if the
animal rights movement had their way, there would be no whole organism
testing.

In regards to someone 'not feeling right' after eating irradiated food, I
think the question is quite different depending on the results of double-blind
testing!  If they don't feel right, and they don't know they are eating
irradiated food, then this is a cause for concern, and demonstrates a need for
more hypothesis testing to find out why.  If they don't feel right, and they
DO know they are eating irradiated food, then this may be a psychological
response:  one that may be better addressed through better education about
the process.  If the latter is true, than the ignorance or neuroses of a few
people should NOT be responsible for denying the benefits of this technology
to everyone else.

Eric


* Eric L. Peters                                 Voice:    (303) 491-5343 *
* Department of Radiological Health Sciences       FAX:          491-0623 *
* Colorado State University                                               *
* Fort Collins, CO 80523           INTERNET: elpeters@LAMAR.COLOSTATE.EDU *
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: BIOSPH-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
X-VMS-To: BIOSPH-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
MIME-version: 1.0
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:34:25 -0400
Reply-To:     BRANDES@CORAL.BUCKNELL.EDU
From:         BRANDES@CORAL.BUCKNELL.EDU
Subject:      PLASTICS RECYCLING
X-To:         BIOSPH-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU

I AM VERY INTERESTED IN THE SOLID WASTE CRISIS IN THE UNITED STATES AND,
MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE ROLE THAT RECYCLING PLAYS IN THE SOLUTION TO WASTE
MANAGEMENT.  ALTHOUGH PLASTICS ONLY CONSTITUTE A SMALL PORTION OF WASTE IN
THE ENTIRE STREAM OF GARBAGE, THEY REPRESENT A POTENTIAL PROBLEM GIVEN
THEIR CARCINOGENIC PROPERTIES AND LONG LIFE IN LANDFILLS.  I AM CURRENTLY
WORKING ON A PROJECT THAT DEALS WITH PLASTICS AND THE MOST VIABLE OPTION
FOR HANDLING THE DISPOSAL OF BOTH POST-INDUSTRIAL AND POST-CONSUMER WASTES.
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM ANYONE WHO IS INTERESTED IN THIS SUBJECT.
FROM:BRANDES@BUCKNELL.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: BIOSPH-L@UBVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: BIOSPH
X-VMS-Cc: WHITLOCK
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 09:28:00 EDT
Reply-To:     Jeremy Whitlock <WHITLOCK@MCMASTER.BITNET>
From:         Jeremy Whitlock <WHITLOCK@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Free Radicals, and Why the Excitement?

Allen Gorden writes:

  > It's not just up to the radio-biologists and bio-chemists to say what is
  > harmless.  ...[rest deleted]...

Agreed, but in the context of the current food-irradiation discussion we
are considering scientific facts (so far anyway -- Allen's posting might
change that).  The point is:  When "Food and Water Inc." try to sway
public opinion by quoting so-called scientific facts about the effects
of food irradiation, it is most certainly up to the scientists who study
the thing to say what we really do know.

When we look at the levels of public education on the issue, and look at
results of non-prejudiced public trials (if that is possible with food
irradiation), then we can discuss the non-scientific aspects.


Jeremy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy Whitlock                        e-mail:  WHITLOCK@MCMASTER.CA
Dept. of Engineering Physics
McMaster University                    phone: (416) 525-9140 ext.7140
Hamilton, Ont.
CANADA   L8S 4L8
                   "My thoughts are mine, not Mac's"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:         UK.CO.SSS.D; 10 APR 92 17:20:52 BST
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:18:58 BST
From:         Dave Wade <DAVEW@D.SSS.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: EXECIO/XEDIT conflict

Hi folks,
 I have a rather limited experience of SFS. However I have been coding
programs which try and mix EXECIO with other CMS commands. In my
experience the addition of a 'FINIS' command  often helps in circumstances
like this. A quick test on my SP6 system reveals that the insertion of a FINIS
between the 'EXECIO' and 'XEDIT' restores normality, which is as I would
expect. Although your original REXX exec will normally work on most CMS systems
I feel it perhaps should not. So far as I can see CMS has never guarenteed the
state of a disk file until its is closed, so I feel that it would be perfectly
legal to find the line from the EXECIO anywhere in the file. Dave Wade.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
X-Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of &worthy Events)
Originator: beast@arktos.unx.sas.com
X-Bytes: 801
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 19:39:27 GMT
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@VM.SAS.COM
From:         "Jim Weathers" <beast@UNX.SAS.COM>
Subject:      Re: EXECIO/XEDIT conflict
X-To:         SFS-L@SEARN.SUNET.SE

In article <9204101335.AA24110@leiba.watson.ibm.com>, "Barry Leiba, Watson VM
Systems" <leiba@WATSON.IBM.COM> writes:
>That's because they're in different work units by default.  I haven't

Hmmmm... My understanding is that CMS has one default work unit.
Each open instance will be under the same work unit.

It might be interesting to see what the behaviour would be if you got a
new work unit, pushed it, and did the xedit.

I suspect it still would not be what Kent wants.

One of the hardest things I have had to learn is that SFS 'minidisk-file-
system compatibility' is just compatibility, not the real thing.  Like ossim,
ya know?



--
Jim Weathers            beast@unx.sas.com
SAS Institute Inc.      (919) 677-8000
SAS Campus Drive
CARY, NC 27513          n4rse@n4rse.ampr.org (44.71.1.86)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 09:29:06 EDT
From:         "Katherine Faella" <KMF@URIACC.BITNET>
Subject:      IUCV connections

My question is in regards to IUCV (APPC?) connections and the SFS.  We
have just begun using the SFS system, in fact just our staff is using
it.  We are running into problems with IUCV connections.  By default,
we all have MAXCONN 16 for our user virtual machines.  We have had two
staff members run out of connections after running some of their
applications.  One is a VMFPAS exec (like VMFHASM) and the other is a
SAS job.  Once the staff member runs the VMFPAS exec he appears to have
used up all connections and furthur work that requires connections
fails (ie, IUCVTRAP, VMSPOOL ... ) The SAS job can not even complete with
the default 16 max connections.  My questions are

     How are connections to the filepool created?  Does the output
     from Q FILEPOOL CONNECT FOR userid, which shows number of connections
     to the filepool correspond 1-1 to a connection re MAXCONN?
     Why do connections marked YES in the output of Q FILEPOOL CONNECT
     not seem to go away until logoff?  (Yes meaning connected but not
     active) Is this a bug?
     Do I need to up the MAXCONN number in the directory entry? To what?
     What is the impact?
     Where did the rest of the 16 possible connections go to?

Any help would be appreciated and I'll even take a RTFM if someone will
tell me which one.  I've searched quite a bit.

Katherine Faella                 Bitnet:   KMF@URIACC
Academic Computer Center         Internet: KMF@URIACC.URI.EDU
University of Rhode Island
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 07:39:25 EDT
From:         Scott Nettleship <NETTLE@GDLVM7.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      Re: EXECIO/XEDIT conflict
X-To:         SFS-L@SEARN.SUNET.SE

<< Can't XEDIT detect this condition and say "Sorry, the file is already
<< open on the default workunit"?

Xedit can detect it (anything's possible right) but what should it do
if it finds it?  It's probably presumptuous to give an error because
the work could have been separated from Xedit for a good reason.  If you
want it to operate on the open file then it might as well always run on
on the default workunit anyway.

                              Scott Nettleship (CMS/SFS Development)
                                Internet: NETTLE@GDLVM7.VNET.IBM.COM
                                IBMMAIL:  USIB2WF7 at IBMMAIL
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:07:11 MST
From:         Theresa Duttle <SYSTMD@NMSUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      SFS Questions

We just installed VM/ESA 1.1.1 a couple of weeks ago. Having arrived
here via SP5 and XA, SFS is brand-new to us. I would like to get
some information on how other sites migrated to SFS, how they
organized their filepools, and so on. Being a university, we are
especially interested in the experience of other universities.

If you are unable to take the time to type a lengthy reply,
would you be willing to send a phone number & discuss things
via telephone?

Specific Questions:
How did you set up your filepools (i.e., divide up your users), and
    what were the considerations involved in your choices? (E.g.,
    performance, administration, accessability, etc.) Do you
    have any estimates on how much DASD space you saved?

How long did it take to migrate the different user groups to SFS?
    What kinds of problems did you (& your users) encounter?

Is anyone using VMBACKUP (full+incremental) to back up SFS files?
    How do you handle disaster recovery (say, you have an HDA conk
    out on a vol containing control mdisks &/or catalogs)?

Do you have some/all software packages in SFS? How is it set up?
    Separate filepool? (Maybe VMSYS?) Do you have each package
    (SAS, COBOL, GDDM, etc.) in a different directory? How do
    the users access the packages - do you have some kind of
    cover exec(s) that sets up the access for the user?

Answers to any of these questions would be welcome, as well
as hints & tips, warnings about what things *not* to do, or
any other advice you might wish to impart.

-T.Duttle, New Mexico State U.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 13:34:55 EDT
From:         "Katherine Faella" <KMF@URIACC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: IUCV Connections
              14 Apr 1992 10:24:14 EDT from <NETTLE@GDLVM7.VNET.IBM.COM>

Scott,

I appreciate your speedy reply to my questions.  I still have more.
First, let me tell you that we are running ESA 1.0.

We have only one filepool set up on our system.  One of our staff members
logs on with his A-disk in the filepool.  If I  Q FILEPOOL CONNECT
for his id at this point I see one inactive (connected=yes) connection.
He runs his VMFPAS exec (supplied with FAL) and as he is running if I
query the connections I can see 1 inactive and 2 connected=ACTIVE connections.
When the exec completes the three connections remain with status inactive.
This user now canNOT run any other applications that use IUCV for purposes
other than the SFS.  In this state there doesn't seem to be any problems
running the VMFPAS exec again or communicating with the SFS.  So, my
questions are   What is the relationship between these connections and the
MAXCONN option?  Do these 3 SFS connections equal 16 IUCV connections?
If not, where are all my other potential 16 connections gone?

I looked up the 2 PTFs you mentioned.  VM48713 sounds interesting, but not
to my confused eye like the solution to my problem.  VM52394's description
on IBMLINK is not very detailed.

Thanks for your help,

Katherine Faella                 Bitnet:   KMF@URIACC
Academic Computer Center         Internet: KMF@URIACC.URI.EDU
University of Rhode Island
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 10:24:14 EDT
From:         Scott Nettleship <NETTLE@GDLVM7.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      IUCV Connections
X-To:         SFS-L@SEARN.SUNET.SE

Connections to the server in no way map to workunits or how many
applications are currently running.  A connection is established
to an SFS server when the CMS user machine can not use an existing
connection that is already established.  So, If functionA calls the
server followed by functionB, functionB will use the same "IUCV path"
as functionA.  If the application was using another workunit, another
connection would be established if the other connection was "in work"
(eg. uncommitted work in progress).  So if an application is getting several
"default" workunits and not committing them (say via FINIS), then
CMS could start allocating more paths than you would expect.

CMS does need to establish a connection to each filepool server that
the user machine is dealing with.  So if you have MAXCON=16 you cannot
connect to 17 filepools concurrently.  Each connection is held so it
doesn't have to be reestablished everytime.  There is support now
in CMS to delete an unused path to a server on a LRU basis when you
exceed MAXCON (In Release 1.1 and VM48713 in Release 1.0)

A MAXCON of 16 is usually adequate unless your application is using
a lot of workunits to a single server or a lot of overlapped asynchronous
SFS calls (maybe SAS?).  If you are using multiple servers from the user
machine, then you will start using connections quicker.

I think there is a PMR open in Release 1.0 that CMS is using up paths
unnecessarily (VM52394).  You may want to take a look at that.

                                 Scott Nettleship (CMS/SFS Development)
                                    Internet: NETTLE@GDLVM7.VNET.IBM.COM
                                    IBMMAIL:  USIB2WF7 at IBMMAIL


P.S. The last append referenced a MAXCONN limit of 2000.  This is for the
     SFS server not the CMS user machines.
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