From: raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (christopher raczka)
Subject: Re: Jesus is a Prophet, not Son of God
Reply-To: raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (christopher raczka)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 23:06:45 GMT

In article <WIGGINS.92Nov10123415@raedwald.cs.odu.edu> wiggins@raedwald.cs.odu.edu (Samuel E Wiggins) writes:
> In article <P64wTB10w165w@kalki33> kalki33!system@lakes.trenton.sc.us writes:
> 
>    <RBNXHS@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> writes:
> 
>    > In response to Sam Wiggins's assertion that Jesus claimed to be God:
>    > 
>    > There is not a single verse in the so-called canonical gospels where
>    > Jesus explicitly stated that he is God or a God-incarnate. Your assertion
>    > can only be accepted if one extrapolates the meanings of certain verses,
>    > which are too subtle. Those verses are open to interpretation. Trinitarians
>    > like to interpret them to prove the divinity of Jesus, others reject it.
> 
>    I thought the argument was about Jesus being the Son of God, not God. In
>    the Bible, Jesus certainly claims that God is his father. You are
>    right that he nowhere claimed to be God. In fact, he directly denies it
>    in the verse "...for the Father is greater than I..." (John 14:28)
> 
>    Sincerely,
>    Kalki Dasa
> 
> Not true.  He claims to BE God.  He NEVER claimed to be a PROPHET was my 
> original point, though.
> 
> Now, where does He claim to be God?  One I can think of now is where He said
> "I and the Father are One."  But, this WAS equating Himself with God.  That's
> why the Jewish scholars around him got so angry at Him.
> 
> Also, John also states in the beginning of his canonical gospel, that Jesus
> (The Word) was with God, WAS God, came in human form, etc.  Now, John got
> this idea from somewhere, right?  From Jesus, maybe, whom he knew and talked
> with?  Likewise, Peter, Paul, and the rest of the NT.
> 
> More to come...
>   

The question is still, "Who do you say that I am ?" (Mark 8:29,Matt 16:15)

Jesus referred to himself as the "Son of Man", "Lord of the Sabbath"
and when asked;

 "Are you the Messiah?" he said "YES"
 "Are you the King of the Jews?" he said "YES"

When Jesus rode into Jerusalem, the people cried "Bless is King who
comes in the name of the Lord" and the Religious leaders told Jesus to
rebuke them, but Jesus said, "if they keep quiet the stones will cry out."

Jesus also said, "Before Abraham was born, I AM."
and  when Jesus said  "I and the Father are one", the people wanted to
stone him for claiming to be God.

Jesus forgave sins, healed the blind, drove out deamons and raised the dead

Jesus also said to "baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Sprit"
which is how Christians come to believe that there is a trinity  

With all the wonderful things that our Lord Jesus did and still does (John 3:16)
people do not and will not believe that he is God .. Jesus even said this
"If I tell you, you will not believe me" and,
"Since you did not believe what Moses wrote, how are you going to believe
 what I say?"

Jesus presented the evidence and it demands a verdict

Jesus still asks, "Who do you say that I am?"


-- 

		Mephistopheles ... ruthless, sleepless, unsmiling,
                concentration on self or humorous, civilised, sensible
                and adaptable 
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