HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: carnes@sparky.eecs.umich.edu (Richard Carnes)
Subject: Re: Beethoven's violin concerto
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:42:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.070755.11948@ichips.intel.com> mehul@pdx212 (Mehul Dave) writes:
>
>I just started reading this newsgroup and have found that many people
>seem to know a whole lot about classical music so this may be a good
>place to ask this question.  I recently heard a cassette recording of
>Beethoven's concerto for Violin and Orchestra in D major Op.61.  The
>violinist was Wolfgang Schneiderhan and the orchestra was Berlin
>Philharmonic conducted by Eugene Jochum.  I have a few questions about
>this concerto
>
>1. Is this the only violin concerto Beethoven wrote?  I ask this

Yes.  He also wrote a concerto for piano, violin, and cello.

>2. In the cassette flap, I found the following:
>
>   "Cadenzas adapted for the violin by Wolfgang Schneiderhan from those
>    Beethoven composed for his arrangement of this concerto for piano
>    and orchestra".
>
>  Did Beethoven intend this concerto to be played on piano?  I must
>  admit, to me the violin seemed perfect but then I haven't heard it on
>  piano.

The pianist/publisher Muzio Clementi (not to be confused with the
violinist Franz Clement, who premiered the concerto) commissioned an
arrangement of the violin concerto for piano and orchestra.  It was
published as Beethoven's op. 61.  Beethoven wrote four cadenzas for
the piano version.  The piano part consists of the violin line with
very little alteration in the right hand, while the left hand has
accompanying figures.  It's a much better piece with violin.  Except
for the cadenzas, the arrangement has no independent musical value;
presumably Beethoven did it for the money.
From: jimn@phred.UUCP (Jim Nevermann)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: FAUST march question
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:27:37 GMT
Reply-To: jimn@phred.UUCP
Organization: Physio-Control

In the Beriloz (sp?) version of Faust, what does the Rakozy/Hungarian March depict, and is "Rakozy" anything other than just a name? I first heard it --actually just the last part-- used as the opening piece for a contemporary drum & bugle corps from northern Illinois. I've always liked it very much.
From: bonness@cae.wisc.edu (Matthew Bonness)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: S.O.B. 2000
Date: 26 Jul 92 02:15:51 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

Has anyone heard the new Wendy Carlos album 
_Switched on Bach 2000_, and would like to post
a review of it?

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this
question, and I don't want to offend people who don't
like synthesized classical music a la Walter and Wendy
Carlos, Tomita, Don Dorsey, etc. You'll have to excuse
me if this is the case.
From: brad@baby.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Question about "Carmina Burana"
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:28:59 GMT
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Originator: brad@baby


In article <76558@ut-emx.uucp>, amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik) writes:
|> John Thayer Jensen writes:
|> >Kuo-Yeang Tsai writes:
|> >
|> >>Why does it (Carmina Burana) sound demoniac? 
|> >
|> >>Even without reading the somewhat offensive lyrics, friend asked
|> >>"Is this Satan-worshipping music?" upon hearing the first few 
|> >>passages.
|> >
[stuff deleted]
|> 
|> Oh dear.  Lots of misconceptions here.  Let's see if we can straighten
|> them out...
|> 
[stuff deleted]
|> I think the reason people may associate this piece (let's face it;
|> we're not talking about the whole thing at all, just that very first
|> movement) with "devil worship" or "demonism" or whatever crap you want
|> to call it is that it's been used in cheesy witchcraft movies.  They
[stuff deleted]
|> 
|> But please.  This is not "devil-worshipping" music.  It is secular.
[stuff deleted]
|> Devil-worshipping music.  Sheesh.

I wonder, Susan, if simply quoting (maybe paraphrasing a little) the 
actual text of the first passage might help drive your point home
(Translated from the Latin):

"Oh fortune, variable as the moon, always dost thou wax and wane.
Detestable life, first dost thou mistreat us, and then, whimsically,
thou heedest our desires. One is cast down, another is lifted on high,
to enjoy a brief felicity. As the sun melts the ice, so dost thou 
dissolve both poverty and power..."

Is this Satanic? Do fish ride bicycles?
From: dcoder@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Borodin (was: Dvorak)
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:21:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul21.212126.3555
Organization: University of Washington

In article <1992Jul20.221607.5217@tellab5.tellabs.com> lampson@tellabs.com  
(Dave Lampson) writes:
In article <1992Jul17.141214.7912@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  
jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank) writes:

>While we're on the subject, does any of you have a favorite reading of
>Borodin's Quartet No. 2?  I have the one done by the Emerson Quartet which
>I'm very fond of, but I'm interested in alternative interpretations 
>(especially any which are paired with his No. 1).  Thanks.

I particularly like the Borodin Quartet in this one, and in the first as well:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
-
BORODIN                Quartet #1 in A Major                                  
ADD
                       Quartet #2 in D Major "Nocturne"
Borodin Quartet                         
EMI                         Melodiya                  CDC7477952     (1) 


..
Is this a reissue of the old Melodiya/Odyssey recording of #1 with the original  
Borodin Quartet (with Messrs. Alexandrov, Dubinsky, et al.)? A more recent  
recording got a lesser review as I recall.

Dave Coder
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Feminist Musicology
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:24:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.163523.22609@doug.cae.wisc.edu> 
bonness@cae.wisc.edu (Matthew Bonness) writes:
>Can anyone help me with the origins of a quote
>I read in the New York Times - it's about a 
>musicologist at the University of Minnesota
>who finds in the second movement of Beethoven's
>Ninth Symphony only "the throttling murderous
>rage of a rapist incapable of attaining release."

a) It's the recap of the first movement.

>Who is this and where did she say that? It can't
>be Susan McClary, can it? 

b) Yup, it sure can.

>I have her book,
>_Feminine Endings: Music, Gender, and Sexuality_,

c) which contains a revised version of the article in which she said
that.

>in which she is nowhere near as harsh towards Beethoven.

Well, she tones down the language.  She still has her gendered view of
sonata form, and several bad analyses to prove it (notably her take on
the Unfinished...).

The NYT writer most likely found the quote in Peter van den Toorn's
controversial article in Journal of Musicology last year; he refers to
the revision in a footnote.  That issue and the following one are worth
checking out for his piece and Ruth Solie's response.  LAst 2 issues of
1991.

Roger 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: sorin@techunix.technion.ac.il (Goldenberg Sorin)
Subject: Liszt/Schubert Soires de Vienne
Reply-To: sorin@techunix.technion.ac.il (Goldenberg Sorin)
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 08:49:11 GMT

Is there some recording of this on tape ?
Thanks

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Subject: Re: minimalism
Keywords: ear candy
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 21:04:12 GMT

Steve Apter (steve@fid.morgan.com) writes:

> This is Ives, from a letter to Nicholas Slonimsky:

> 	Art and business are hitched together.  98 2/3 %
> 	(I like to be precise) of all radio and phonograph
> 	records are sebaceous cysts, and soft ones at that,
> 	and they sell, though if a 3-year-old is always fed
> 	candy for breakfast, he will always be a 3-year-old,
> 	and the oatmeal market will die.

And Modern Music makes up the other 1-1/3 %, n'est-ce pas?

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider)
Subject: Re: Is it Ludwig van, Van, von or Von Beethoven?
Organization: Applied Research Labs, University of Texas at Austin
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:05:21 GMT

jwalpe@dumpster.helios.nd.edu (Court Walpe) writes:

>I call on the wisdom of the rec.music.classical group to answer this deep burning question for me:  Is it Ludwig van, Van, von, or Von Beethoven?  I've asked numerous people and gotten all four of the above responses.  Please help set my mind at ease!  Post is OK, but I'd prefer e-mail.  Thanks a lot!

>                                Court (jwalpe@dumpster.helios.nd.edu)

Ludwig van Beethoven.

("Viggie" fu"r short.)

colby leider
colby@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Re: Looking for recording of Vaughan Williams "Folk Song Suite" done by a *band*
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 11:52:00 GMT

I have an Angel-EMI CD that has what you're looking for. It's
called "British Music for Concert Band," and the group in question
is the Central Band of the Royal Air Force. 

The good news about this CD is that it has the other favorite
Brit band music, to wit, the two suites by Holst and Grainger's
"Lincolnshire Posy" and other pieces. The sound is also very
good. Terrific percussion sound. 

The bad news is the the performances are kind of rough; some
sound almost like a high school band. Also, there is excessive
prominence given to either a baritone horn or a tuba, I can't
tell which -- almost as if everything has been arranged to
feature it to some degree. 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider)
Subject: Re: Question about "Carmina Burana"
Organization: Applied Research Labs, University of Texas at Austin
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:45:46 GMT

tsai@tecrus.enet.dec.com (Kuo-Yeang Tsai) writes:



>I am going to attend the "Carmina Burana" concert at Tanglewood this
>coming Augst 8th and I have a question which has been on my mind for
>a long time.

>Why does it (Carmina Burana) sound demoniac? 

>Even without reading the somewhat offensive lyrics, friend asked
>"Is this Satan-worshipping music?" upon hearing the first few 
>passages.

>Thanks in advance for your answer!
>kyt

Well, I agree that its use in movies and such to create a "satanic" environment
has contributed to this view of the work as sounding demoniac.  Upon carefully
studying the poetry of the Carmina Burana, not only for its literary content but
also for the meaning of the lines, stated and implied, in combination with the
underlying thematic element of Fate and its inconstance, one then only fully
appreciate the musical genius of Carl Orff's "urgundmusik" (simple music), as he
himself called it.

Whether or not one agrees with the poetry (I particularly don't care for it),
the composer's purpose in writing choral music is unique in that he also must
succesfully work with and convey the meaning of the words he sets to music,
paying careful attention to not only their syllabically metronomic rhythms but
also using this in a way to often construct a musical "onomatopoeia."  Thus, O
I think most would agree that the music in question does indeed convey the p  
poetry, and one could, as you said, gather much as to the meaning and/or subject
matter of the work based solely on the music.  However, "satan-worshipping   "
is not the correct adjective to describe this work.  It's more like  
"Let's-complain-about-life-as-much-as-possible-in-sixty-minutes."

colby@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Subject: Re: Male choral music
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:03:20 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.161125.3606@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank) writes:
>
>While we're on the subject, there's a real interesting disc on the 
>Finlandia label of Sibelius' "Mieskuorolaulut" ("Songs for Male Choir")--
>nice listening (though not very cheerful), and worlds different from his
>orchestral writing.

Speaking of works for male chorus, I have always liked Bohuslav
Martinu's "Field Mass" - for male chorus and a baritone solo.  I 
think there is a CD with it (perhaps on Supraphon?).  Anyway, warmly
recommended.

-Margaret

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Subject: Re: Beethoven's violin concerto
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 20:04:02 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Jul30.115206.11038@philabs.philips.com> kpl@philabs.philips.com (K P Lee) writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul29.215158.271971@cs.cmu.edu>, acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby) writes:
>|> I like the aforementioned Schneiderhan recording.  It's on CD along with
>|> the two Romances.  I can't for the life of me remember who does the
>|> Romances, but it's somebody *really* famous.  It's a budget DG disc -- an
>
>
>It's DG 429 179-2.
>The pianist is Daniel Barenboim with the English Chamber Orchestra.
>
>The Romances are played by Pinchas Zuckerman, with the London
>Philharmonica Orchestra conducted by D. Barenboim.

No!  Not the disc I have.  It's definitely not Zuckerman OR Barenboim.
I'll look up the reference tonight.  Mine is a budget disc; perhaps the
Schneiderhan/Jochum concerto was reissued twice.

-chris
From: jeff@cns.nyu.edu (Jeff Fookson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Complete Set of LvB Piano Sonatas
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:18:39 GMT
Reply-To: jeff@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University, Center for Neural Science

Although I always end up back at the sublime Schnabel recordings, I have recently
been listening to Richard Goode's CDs of the late sonatas and Op 31 (I think he
just released some of the early sonatas also but I have not heard them yet) and
they're are really very satisfying.

 Jeff Fookson, jeff@cns.nyu.edu
 Center for Neural Science
 New York University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: minimalism
Organization: Quake Public Access
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 04:18:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.025510.6264@slc.com> marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:
>I see no difference between the desire to listen to a Mozart symphony and 
>the desire to listen to the rattling of pots and pans.

Well, that's pretty direct isn't it?  Tell me, do you have a CD collection?
Does it contain more than one disc?  If so, would you mind if I replaced it with
one full of rattling pots and pans?  Why or why not?

This is simply absurd, and I don't even believe that you believe it.

--Brian

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Good version of 'The planets' by Holst?
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:35:14 GMT

In article <thurlow.711815143@convex.convex.com> thurlow@convex.com (Robert Thurlow) writes:
>In <1992Jul22.190415.12475@phillip.edu.au> t8800568@phillip.edu.au writes:
>
>>... could some kind sole recommend a version of 'The Planets'
>>by Holst?  I really want a copy, but there are so many versions of
>>this particular piece, that I dont want to be stuck with a dud.
>
>I have the Deutsche Grammophon Von Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic recording
>from 1981, and the sound and performance are magnificent.  (DG 400 028-2).
>The latest Penguin guide recommends others above it: Dutoit/Montreal (Decca)
>and Hilary Davan Wetton/LPO (Collins) are well thought-of.
>

I like Levine's recent DG issue.  The Boughton performance on Nimbus
is also quite fine, with a superb though somewhat distant "back-of-the
hall" perspective.  The latter disk has been dropped from the catalog,
and you should be able to find it at the cut-out price.

>Rob T
>--
>Rob Thurlow, thurlow@convex.com
>Heaven knows / No frontiers
>And I've seen heaven in your eyes			- Jimmy McCarthy
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Anti-censorship T-shirts
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:36:26 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <Pmk4NB8w165w@midiline.la.ca.us> fiddle@midiline.la.ca.us  
(frank hoppe) writes:
> I've found a source for T-shirts that say, "I BUY MUSIC FOR MINORS."
> The Washington Music Industry Coalition is fighting recent restrictive 
> legislation and is selling these shirts as fundraisers. If you can get 
> Behind the message, they come in black or white and cost $12.50pp.
> Write to: WMIC, 300 Lenora St., Box P120, Seattle, WA 98121.
> 

Perhaps we can also get "I Buy R and X Rated Movies for Minors"
or "I Buy Penthouse and Hustler for Minors" shirts. After all, 
it is censorship to try to tell my 11 year old she
can't go to see "Henry and June" or "Debbie Does Dallas," right?

It seems to me there is a big difference between censorship and
preventing children from seeing/buying innapropriate material.


--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Dvorak
In-reply-to: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu's message of 18 Jul 92 16:43:31 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<1992Jul17.143729.9550@viewlogic.com>
	<2A684A33.13722@noiro.acs.uci.edu>
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:17:37 CDT

John R. Dooley writes:

   Ahh now, don't get snotty about poor AF.  He was a terrific "pops"
   conductor.  And, he looked great in firehat.

One of my random brushes with fame was that my first wife was Debbie
Fiedler's best friend.  My favorite anecdote from knowing them has, as
its background, not only their close friendship but also their summer-
long trip to Europe during college.  Penny later encountered the Grand
Old Man in their living room, and he said "Oh--aren't you the person who
took a trip with Debbie?"  Well, at least he knew his daughter's name.
Are all celebrities like this?  Anyway, Debbie was easily the most
gorgeous guest at our wedding.  I believe she's a lawyer in New York now
(as is my former wife, whose exact name *I* don't know at this point).

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Subject: Re: Beethoven's violin concerto
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 20:00:01 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Jul30.024406.7031@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> kaf8f@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Keith Andrew Falconer) writes:
>Gidon Kremer's recording of this work  on DGG is well worth
>recommending, if only for the cade by Alfred Schnittketke - a
>strange and (in my view) surprisingly effective juxtaposition 
>of old and new.

Yes, I second this.  It really surprised me when I first heard it, because
I didn't know that the cadenza would be anything out of the ordinary.  Of
course, where Gidon Kremer goes, strange and wonderful things tend to
follow.  Definitely worth hearing at least once.

-chris
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lampson@tellabs.com (Dave Lampson)
Subject: Re: minimalism
Organization: Tellabs, Inc., IL
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:39:29 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.230004.5875@nuscc.nus.sg> smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.015916.27739@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
>(Roger Lustig) writes:
>>In article <Bs153C.127@quake.sylmar.ca.us> 
>>brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>>
>>>Cage had a piece called something like "Constructions in Metal" in which
>>>the "performers" banged on various metal objects including kitchen
>>>utensils.  
>>
>>This is not the same as "rattling pots and pans."

[...much seemingly appropriate Yoder-bashing deleted...]

>In 1939 John Cage composed an all-percussion composition entitled "First
>Construction (In Metal)" for "percussion sextet with assistant."  Here is
>how the resources are allocated:
>
>	Player 1--orchestra bells, suspended thundersheet
>	Player 2--string piano
>	Assistant--metal rods on the piano strings
>	Player 3--suspended thundersheet, small sleigh bells, 12 graduated oxen
>			bells
>	Player 4--suspended thundersheet, 4 graduated muted brake drums, 8
>			graduated cowbells, 3 graduated Japanese temple gongs
>	Player 5--suspended thundersheet, 4 graduated suspended Turkish
>			cymbals, 8 graduated muted anvils, 4 graduated
>			suspended Chinese cymbals
>	Player 6--suspended thundersheet, 4 graduated muted gongs, water gong,
>			tam tam, suspended gong
>
>The absence of pots and pans will be obvious to anyone who takes the trouble to
>read this list (but probably not Yoder who seems more inclined to write than
>read).



I apologize in advance for this, and I know I really shouldn't do it, but...


I suspect that the absence of actual culinary accoutrements does little to
keep this piece from sounding as though it was actually performed on "pots
and pans", regardless of how the "resources are allocated".


There I said it.
Yes, I am sorry.
Yes, I am a Philistine.
No, I an not a Yoderite.
No, I am not a Yoderian.
Yes, I very occasionally have something like Yoderesque tendencies.
Yes, I fight them, and I'm getting better all the time.

-- 

Dave
lampson@tellabs.com
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Recommendation for Requiem music is needed.
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:35:49 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

If you're interested in exploring Requiems, a good book to find (most
music-department libraries have it) is Alec Robertson's "Requiem:  Music
of Mourning and Consolation."  He discusses many settings of the Requiem
Mass, and also of similar texts like the Stabat Mater.  It should
provide some good ideas for further exploration.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lmeissne@milton.u.washington.edu (Loren Meissner)
Subject: Classical CD Clubs
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:16:09 GMT

 just recently bought a CD player. Are there any "classical" 
"record clubs" for CD's. If so which ones are the best ones. 
I will probably be ordering full-length operas and <ouch> those can get costly at retail record stores. Also, are there any good mail order firms aout there
for ordering entire opera CD sets?

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jfl@panix.com (Jeff Lipton)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beethoven 4-hands works (was Re: Beethoven Opus & Woo)
Date: 26 Jul 92 15:26:42 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <l6rc3pINNfdi@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>
>I've not turned up any CDs of Beethoven's four-hand piano
>works.  Are there any, or at least some of the works tucked
>away on four-hand anthologies?
>
	I remember spending several months in college struggling
through trying to learn the 'secondo' part of Beethoven's own 
4-hand arrangement of the Grosse Fuge from the op. 130 quartet. There
is a fine recording of this piece on Nonesuch CD , coupled with a
4-hand piece by Mozart, and the Busoni Fantasy Contrapuntista <?sp>. The
names of the pianists escape me; perhaps some other intrepid net-news
reader can help...
 - Jeff


-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jeffrey F. Lipton, M.D.                |   (212)-982-1219 (home)          |
| 353 E. 17th, #19-E  NY, NY 10003       |"Disobedience was Man's First     |
+----------------------------------------------- Virtue" (Oscar Wilde) -----+