HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wes@ian.stx.com (John S.)
Subject: Re: Sailing into a slip
Keywords: Sails
Organization: STX, Lanham Maryland
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:52:29 GMT

   All this talk about sailboaters vs. powerboaters is kind of
tiresome. I've been doing both most my life. They both have their share
of idiots out there. The fact is boating is a dangerous sport that is
readily accessible to the general public. Some landlubber dreams of
boating, gets the money to rent or buy one, and imagines himself
suddenly transformed into Captain of the High Seas.

   I used to think there was a larger proportiion of unskilled
powerboaters. They buy their new toy and think it's just like driving
a car (with the added advantage that beer and boating is generally
accepted). I believed that someone who rented or bought a sailboat, in
the process of just figuring out how to make it go at all, would be more
likely to take the time to learn to operate it safely and responsibly.
Well that's not the case. After watching people with no sailing
experience at all walk in to our dealership with a wad of money and
leave with a brand new weekend-cruiser sailboat, and after having to
take them out and fully demonstrate the new boat to them in only a efw
hours, I realized what menaces some of these sailors are. 

   The fact is, the fools are out there in all kids of boats. The best
solution is to try and avoid them. I won't sail in the Annapolis area
unless it's a race or I'm getting paid. It's just too congested. Sure,
it's a hassle driving the extra time to a more secluded place, but to
me, it's more than worth it. 


====================================================================

"Mystery Masked Man was smart                                   (__
 He got himself a Tonto                                    __/\-~\ \
 'Cause Tonto did the dirty work for free                 /    \  \_\
 But Tonto, he was smarter                               /     |- ~)
 And one day said 'Kimosabe,
 Kiss my ass, I bought a boat, I'm going out to sea.'"  

  -Lyle Lovett "If I had a boat"  ***********************************
                                  * wes@ian.stx.com (John Shepherd) *
                                  ***********************************
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: STU@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: Sailing into a slip
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:41:38 GMT

Sure makes me think about rethinking the SOP on the Shearwater.  I generally
motor up the last few miles toward her home slip - very crowded on Sunday
afternoon and well below the minimum speed I can maintain under Main only.
 
I also furl the jib, cover the main, and generally clean up from the weekend.
This lets me step off a clean boat when I get to the slip.
 
I have practiced sailing into my slip - and did it once when my fuel system
clogged - but have never considered the safety aspects of getting my sail
up in an emergency.
 
I do consider an anchor a necessary safety item - and can (and have)
deployed my Danforth in about 25 seconds when my transmission failed between
two draw bridges (both closed) on the ICW.  The anchor is always ready.
 
You have given me cause to think again about the sails - thank you.  /Stu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: Nav lights quiz
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 14:08:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.035032.10556@phri.nyu.edu> roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>
>	A quiz question taken from real life.  You see 3 lights stacked one
>atop the other in a straight line.  The bottom one is red, low down near the
>water, the upper two are white.  You don't have any sense of scale, but you
>can see that the vertical spacing between the two white lights is about the
>same as between the bottom white and the red.  What kind of vessel have you
>spotted?


I don't have the answer to this, but I have a related question. First let
me make my wrong guesses though:

(1) White over white means something like "fishing" or "towing" (I can't recall
what). Perhaps you saw this vessel, with side-mounted side lights, from just
the right angle on its port bow to see W W R.o

(2) Perhaps you saw it, with a forward-mounted R/G light, from dead ahead, and
the green bulb was burned out :-). 

(3) Perhaps you saw a sailboat with her steaming light and anchor light turned
on, with a small powerboat alongside acting as a "sister" tug to the disabled
sailboat, and what you saw was (top to bottom) anchor light, steaming light,
powerboat port bow light.


So my related question is this: I want to learn the lights properly, and
straight memorization has never been a favorite of mine. I figured I might
write a program. What you see on the screen is the view off to starboard from
your sailboat. There's the horizon, with a few lights on it, and then various
vessels. You click with your mouse near them and then try to identify them.
When you do, they go away. (Sort of a space invaders of vessels). Others appear
from the sides of the screen at random. You get the idea, I assume. The
identification part would be hard to write, since there are so many choices.
And one would need an inland and international version, too. But suppose I
*were* to write such a thing, with a Motif interface on top of an X-window
display. Would other folks be intersted? Interested in helping? Whatever
happens, it won't be soon---too much panic on the agenda between now and
January. 

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mbr@bellcore.com (Mark Rosenstein)
Subject: Re: Tall ship to visit S.F. Bay (Sagres: a bit 'o info)
Reply-To: mbr@bellcore.com (Mark Rosenstein)
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown, NJ
Distribution: ca
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:08:48

From:
"Beken of Cowes, Sailing Ships of the World" by Erik C. Abranson,
Thomas Reed Publications, ISBN 0-947637-47-8. [A great book, with
really great pictures, though a bit pricy]

This barque's keel was laid down in June 1937 and she was launched on
30 Octover the same year under the name of "Albert Leo Schlageter,"
after a Nazi party hero. She was the third schoolship of the German
Reich's Navy. [Eagle is another example - the split spanker is a big hint]

The "Albert Leo Schlageter" had a complement of 298 crew and cadets.
She had not been in service for two full seasons when war broke out.
During the war she operated short training cruises in the Baltic. She
struck a mine that caused extensive damage to the engine room.

She was seized by the United States at the end of the war. The
Americans had however no use for her and, in 1948 they passed her on to
Brazil which recommissioned her as a naval shoolship under the name of
"Guanabara" (the name of the bay of Rio de Janeiro.

[History of the line of Sagres's deleted].

The new "Sagres" sailed from Rio on 24 April 1964, bound for Lisbon.
Like the old "Sagres," she has a figurehead which is a bust of Prince
Henry, and she displays red Lusitanian crosses on her sails.

Mark.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Stefan Mochnacki)
Subject: Catalina 30 (WAS: Request for advice ... Cruising sailboats)
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 07:48:13 GMT


A couple of times in recent months I have requested advice about
cruising sailboats for a family of five (plus friends!). Many of you
have responded with interesting observations, and after looking at
fifty boats, sailing on a few, and FINALLY getting my money, I am 
about to start making offers, on CATALINA 30's. 

In Ontario, C30's sell for quite a high price, mainly because of exchange,
duty and the GST adding 50% or more to US prices (and that's before
the Provincial Sales Tax of 8% is added on top of all that). However,
they also fill a need which few other boats do. 

Here's what I like about the Catalina 30:

	- Very roomy, comfortable interior.
	- Good sailing ability. Fast.
	- Reasonable appearance.
	- Solid construction: NO BALSA CORE (I believe) *
	- Excellent owners' association and supply of information
          and parts.
	- Slow depreciation. (Gotta think of kids' tuition...).
	- High boom with mid-sheeting: safe for kids. Clear cockpit.
	- Adequately wide decks.
			_______________

I don't like:

	- Rather thin bulkhead, modest chainplates.
	- Lack of original ventilators.
						________________

* I would be interested to hear comments about the deck construction, which
  I have been told (by the local dealer ...) contains no balsa core. I have
  looked at a lot of boats with balsa cored decks, and have seen too many
  with cracks and delamination. For example, C&C 27's and 30's, which are
  beautiful boats though a bit cramped for what I want, often have deck 
  problems. (However, if I can't close a deal on a Catalina 30, I'll probably
  buy a C&C 30...).

  I also would be interested to hear what I should be looking for when 
  viewing Catalina 30's .... is the mast (compression post) step in the
  keel often rotten? Is osmosis common (I am looking at boats in the 1978-
  1980 range)?

					- Stefan Mochnacki

-- 
Stefan W. Mochnacki          INTERNET - stefan@centaur.astro.utoronto.ca
Astronomy, U. of Toronto     UUCP - {uunet,pyramid}!utai!helios.physics!stefan
Ph. (416) 884-9562           BITNET - mochnacki@utorphys.bitnet 
FAX (416) 884-2672	     LOCATION - David Dunlap Observatory
From: mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Loud Boats (Was: Re: Novice boaters)
Date: 28 Sep 1992 14:39:40 -0400
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc., Vienna, VA.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gilligan.east.sun.com

In article <9209281813.AA03391@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil>, zielke@FOZZIE.NRL.NAVY.MIL (David Zielke) writes:
> Right of Way Problem...
> 
> to port he would change course to block.  In the end I had the feeling that
> he was deliberatly going out of his way to make a pain of himself.  
> 
>   Thus always follow the rule: An 800 pound gorilla can go where ever he
> wants to...  Sad but true...
> 

Some people are like that... I once flew with a guy who would
deliberately throttle his engines up and down, while diving
towards golfers. And he was a flight instructor! His attitude
was that "Them rich f*&^kers deserve to have the s%&t scared
out of 'em...", because all they did was play golf all day.
He used to laugh when they'd run for cover. He never really
got close, but it did seem to scare the golfers...

I flew with him once, and that was that. I'm glad he didn't
have anything against boats!

-- Mike

-------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions - Not my employer's
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: clagett@ms.uky.edu (Bill Clagett)
Subject: sailing simulators
Keywords: moonpies, happy froooopy froods, toaster wemonomen, TCP/IP 
    protocol, y
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 00:05:22 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

Does anyone have any information on any sailing simulators?  remember
seeing ads for a commercial one several years ago.  I also see them
mentioned in ads in the sailing magazines.  (I think North Sails puts
one out.)  If anyone has any comments on sailing simulators of any
type, commercial or public domain, I would be very interested.

Thanks,
Bill
-- 
    clagett@ms.uky.edu    {rutgets, uunet}!ukma!clagett    bill@ukpr.uky.edu
                                        
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Loud Boats (Was: Re: Novice boaters)
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:35:38 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   Fri, 25 Sep 1992 15:14:27 GMT
>FROM:   David Miller <davidm@meaddata.com>
[material deleted]                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I have encountered sail boats doing dumb things in very
>narrow places in San Diego Mission Bay.  For example, there is an openning to
>a marina that is very narrow (20 yards?) but is not a long channel.  I     
>was starting to enter when a sailboat who was exiting chose to turn in front of
>me and come out laterally (not sure if the turn was a tack or a jibe).  Seemed
>pretty rude to me.  In the long channel to the ocean, some sailers opt to 
>cross completely from one side to other, as opposed to turning more 
>frequently, and using less of the channel (which is reasonably wide).

I have the impression that power boaters (PBs) are often surprised and 
confused by a maneuver on the part of a sailboat which would *not* have 
surprised another sailboat skipper. In some cases this is because the PB 
hasn't had any experience in a sailboat and doesn't understand why the 
sailboat is doing what it's doing. And in general a PB isn't likely to 
have a keen immediate consciousness of the factors that are 
all-important to the sailor, just because he doesn't need to know them; 
I'm thinking of wind direction, speed, steadiness, whether or not there 
are wind shadows from structures on shore, etc. 

Maybe PBs should consider taking sailing lessons in self-defense! So 
they'd know what to expect when the guy's sail starts to make that funny 
noise.
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Cruising Boats (was Re: Book "Maiden Voyage")
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:52:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: vmd.1687298F4.EPLUS17
Organization: C.C.S.O.

In article <1992Sep30.144656.11202@cs.brown.edu>
jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:
 
>In article <153@cherise.UUCP> bobp@sandr.com (Robert Parkinson) writes:
>>
>>The last time I saw him he was working at Fawcetts, and he told me
>>"Every day I work, it's another 5 days I can hang out in the Caribbean
>>without a care".
>
>A great bit of philosophy. I read in a letter in SAIL magazine many years ago
>that some local old salt had said to a new boat owner that "there are folks
>that work on their boats and folks that sail their boats. What the hell are
>you doing tinkering with something unimportant when there's a clear sky and a
>good breeze?" The point is well-taken: winter, or the still summer days in
>the Chesapeake, or whenever, is the time right time to get your maintenance
>done. Sailing time should be sailing time. A little touch-up work is a good
>thing, of course, but when it keeps you from sailing, something's wrong.
>(To forestall flames, let me also point out that I am not proposing sailing
>when your equipment is ready to collapse. If you see a corroded terminal on
>your backstay, it's time to replace it, even if today is the nicest day of the
>whole summer.  But if it's corroded now, it was probably a *little* corroded
>in winter, when you could have had it repaired without losing time on the
>water.)
>
>-John
 
Oh the joy of owning a *real* sailboat--one small enough that it can be
paddled when need be, so that it has a trivial wiring diagram, and so
that it comes home with me after every use and I can inspect and maintain
it whenever the mood strikes me :-).  (BTW, My wife thanks those of you
who have posted questions about battery charging, motor versus sail in
tight quarters, engine problems, etc, etc,; she thinks such postings will
temper any urge I have to get a big boat!)
From: Bill_Gardner@mindlink.bc.ca (Bill Gardner)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Catalina 30 (WAS: Request for advice ... Cruising sailboats)
Date: 5 Oct 92 01:25:14 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

We have a lot of Cat 30's on the west coast and they seem to wear well.  In
walking the Marina floats though I see a lot of hairline cracks around the
chain plates and minor cosmetic blemishes.  They seem to be serviceable for
faimily cruising and not to aggressive sailing.

By the way, I own a 1987 C&C 30 and of course woudld say their is no
comparison to quality and durability .
From: eepare@gdr.bath.ac.uk (A R Edwards)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Ferrocement Boats (was Re: liveaboard sailboats)
Date: 4 Oct 92 15:01:22 GMT
Organization: School of Electrical Engineering, University of Bath, UK


Over here in the UK there are a few ferro boats arround.

My dad keeps one on the East Coast, and built it from the bare hull.
The boat is now 13 years old and has never given any problem at all.
It is a Maurice Grifiths design, with a long keel and weight ~7.5 Tonnes.

As regards sea-worthiness I have no worries - we have done quite a few 
crossings to Belgium and France in weather varying from flat calm to
'blowing quite nicely'.  Unlike a fibreglass boat, the boat tends to
go through waves as opposed to crashing over them which gives a much
smoother ride.  About being suspect on righting moments, I can't really
comment as it hasn't gone over yet :-)

As regards the hull strength, in my opinion it is pretty good for point
load impacts.  We were once hit by a barge in the Dutch inland waterways 
and the concrete just chipped and a temporary repair is really easy with
two-pot resins.  Having been on board the boat at the time, I would
be certain that a fibreglass boat would have suffered substantially
more damage.

Just my $0.02 worth

Tony
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Tall ship to visit S.F. Bay
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 18:01:49 GMT


The Portuguese training ship Sagres will be in the Bay
soon. Here is the information I got from the consulate:

Arrival: 8:30 a.m. on Thursday, October 8.
Berthed: Pier 45 (5 piers west of Pier 39?)
Open to Public: Oct 9, 11-15
                2-7 p.m.

From the photo in the Chron, the Sagres appears to
be a barque, crossing royals and single topgallants
above double topsails. Double gaff on the mizzen.
She looks like a beauty, painted white with lots of
shear, but marred (IMHO) by big crosses on the sails.

Stefan
From: ben@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Benjamin Ellsworth)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:44:52 GMT
Subject: Re: Knots, Bends and other tangles
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: rec.boats


As a former cub scout leader, I've introduced a number of young minds
to bowlines.  The most important thing as far as I am concerned, is
that people understand how the knot looks and how it works.  People
get into situations of high stress or awkard position and they either
forget or are unable to use their "trick" for tying the knot--this is
not so good.

Tie and retie the knot, looking at it, handling it, and thinking about
it.  In the dark, you should be able to tell just by the feel of the
knot if it is right or not.  Clever tricks are good, because they
provide useful solutions to awkard problems, but they are no substitute
for understanding the knot.

Also, Ashley mentions that the left-handed bowline (tail outside) as
being slightly less strong than the standard bowline.

---

Ben

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Boat Enhancement Advice
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 17:18:47 GMT

Keith,

Four observations:

1. Do the work yourself. Rearranging deck lines
   requires lots of squinting and head-scratching
   and soul-searching before you start drilling holes
   in the deck. If you let someone else do the job,
   they will do it as quickly as they can, and you 
   may not be satisfied with their coices. If anything
   goes wrong (for example, the fittings are not backed
   or bedded correctly) you will kick yourself for
   entrusting the work to someone else.

2. You may need an extra turning block for each line
   between the base of the mast and the sheet-stopper.
   This block will be oriented parallel to the deck.
   Look around the marina to see what this looks like.

4. Use Spinlock stoppers, not some cheap imitation.

5. Consider having a cam cleat on the mast for those
   times when you "jump" the halyard while standing
   at the base of the mast. One of the disadvatages
   of the scheme that you are going to is that it may 
   take a little longer to hoist a sail through all 
   those blocks. If    you are in a hurry (for example, 
   you are raising a spinnaker) and you jump the halyard, 
   you will be left holding on to the rope while your 
   crew overhalls it through the new blocks. It's nice 
   to have a place to temporarily cleat the line, 
   especially if you are that crew.


Stefan
From: ercn72@festival.ed.ac.uk (R.J.Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Knots
Date: 29 Sep 92 11:17:19 GMT

Someone recently posted a description of a different way of tying a bowline on
this group. Unfortunately it's scrolled off the top of the list so I can't
respond directly.

I took a listing of this message and along with the diagrams tried it out.
It's the same as a method I discovered independently a few years back when
trying to work out a way of tying a bowline 'upside down', ie: standing behind
the clew of a sail and attaching the sheets. Since then, I have only found one
other person who knows the method (her father taught her).

The method as 'discovered' by me is configured slightly differently than the
diagrams in the previous post. After some considerable searching, I *did* find
a description in Ashley of 'my' method of tying the knot. If pressured, I will
try and cobble up some ascii diagrams showing how to tie.

Roger Hare.
From: mike@ravel.udel.edu (Michael James Porter)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Blisters on fiberglass boats
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:20:28 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <lc167pINNrb4@male.EBay.Sun.COM> jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>In article 17019@MorningStar.Com, dean@MorningStar.Com (Dean Schell) writes:
>> In article <lbugvqINNrb4@male.EBay.Sun.COM> jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>> I've seen a lot of articles about blisters in this newsgroup and I have
>> a question:  do they only occur on boats that are kept in the water most
>> of the season?  I sail on a reservoir and all the boats in our club are
>> on trailers (nothing larger than 19' Lightnings) except when they are in
>> the water being sailed, and I haven't seen a blister on any of them.
I've heard of them occuring when water gets trapped between cushions and
gelcoat.  Takes a pretty long time though (usually on boats that are
kept uncovered and not used at all during the season)

Mike
From: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Messing About the Chesapeake
Date: 29 Sep 92 11:02:58 GMT
Reply-To: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: sextant.eng.sun.com


I'm finally going to attend the Annapolis Boat Show next
week.  I'm giving it two days, then plan to tour about the
Chesapeake shoreline for several more days.  I'm looking
for boat-oriented places to visit, would appreciate any
suggestions.  And is there any such thing as a half- or 
all-day excursion boat?  I'd like to spend a chunk of time 
on the water.  

BILL COURINGTON
From: terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: 1988 Thundercraft 2950
Keywords: Forsale
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 05:00:59 EDT
Reply-To: terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen)
Distribution: na
Organization: G.T.M. Incorporated, Kingston, ON (613) 546-3078
Content-Type: Text

          1988 290 Thundercraft with twin 205 Mercruisers 
          10' beam, Teak interior, 400 hrs, one owner.
          Sony Stereo system with 10 disk cd system, also
          set up for downrigging. Hummingbird Fish Finder,
          plus Loran C, VHF Radio, Compass. 
          Sleeps 6, has alchol-electric stove,full fridge,
          lots of storage space. Head has pump toilet,plus
          shower.
          Colour (color) is Cream and wine.
          Price New in 88 - $92,000 Cdn - selling for $67,000
          Reason for selling - going to larger boat 
          
          Looking to buy 34-35'SeaRay with aft cabin.  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terry Gerritsen         |  G.T.M. Incorporated              (613) 384 0162
terry@gtm-inc.com       |  Kingston, Ontario           Fax: (613) 389 4594
                      "Transportation is our business"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------