HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nih00@uts.amdahl.com (NEIL)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Show Results Nashville Finals
Date: 26 Jul 92 06:32:21 GMT
Reply-To: nih00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (NEIL)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Show Results Nashville Finals
25 July 1992

1	91.8	Star of Indiana	Perc GE
2	90.9	Blue Devils	Brass Visual Color Guard
3	89.7	Cavaliers
4	88.7	Madison Scouts
5	88.6	Cadets of Bergen County
6	87.3	Phantom Regiment
7	84.9	Santa Clara Vanguard
8	84.0	Blue Knights
9	83.7	Crossmen
10	79.9	Velvet Knights
11	76.8	Freelancers
12	76.0	Blue Coats

Neil  -SCV-
-- 
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Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Defending Star's honor (Re: Star ARRRGGGHH!!!)
From: cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:25:34 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City


OK, I know Star's shows have been pretty technical in the last couple or three
years, but let's not go over board.  I would like to defend Star since (as this
may surprise you all) they are my second favorite corps (behind the Devils of
course).

First, look at what instrumentalists play at contests to get high scores or
ratings.  They play all kinds of stuff at tempos in the 200's with 16th note
and 32nd note runs.  Not clarinets I mind you, but trumpets and baritones. 
These people are applauded for their playing ability and no one complains about
it.  Star just puts on the most demanding show they possibly can.  They stretch
the ability of their members to the edge.  Just because they play music
that most symphonies wouldn't try, while marching an unbelievably difficult
drill, doesn't mean that they don't deserve the championship.

This brings me to my second point, the money issue.  Let's face it, no corps
has ever won because of their uniforms or because of their horns (the looks
that is).  Money buys those things, but the members are the ones doing
everything.  The instructors, while they may (and typically are) the best money
can buy, can't learn the show for them or play it or march it for them.  The
members do the performing.  They are the most talented corps out there.  The
members can march that awesome drill and play those runs because they are
dedicated and talented.  The championship is supposed to be given to the corps
that puts on the best show with the fewest errors and the most talented
members.  Star can't buy it all, just the uniforms and equipment and
instructors.  Other corps have done well without money and Star has had money
for the past 6 years.  How many titles do they have?  1, just one.  There have
been four other corps to win DCI titles while Star has existed, and now they
are buying the crown?  I doubt it.  If they could have bought the title, they
would've done it long ago.

Finally, I happen to love Star's shows for the past 3 years, ever since they
changed images.  I listen to their music all the time (whenever the Devils run
out) and watch their show whenever I can.  It was some amazing and great music
and drill.

Well, just some food for thought.  I would love to continue to debate the
issue, because I am sick of people saying they didn't deserve the title last
year (Cavies fans in particular BBBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!) simply because
they have money.  There was more to it than that.

IRC nick-BlueDevil
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Repeat posts from last week
From: cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 06:04:42 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City


In article <1992Jul30.133626.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, holt_c@cubldr.colorado.edu writes:
> 
> I received your posts from both the 27th and the 29th on the afternoon of 
> Thursday, July 30.  I am also having some wierd encounters with this newsgroup
> right now because I have found about 9 "new" postings of scores etc. which have
> been repeated from last week.  Anybody else having this problem.
> 
> 						Charles Holt
> 						Still no diclaimer or
> 						cute quote, but working
> 						on it


Yes, Charles, I too had the problem of the 9 new posts from a week ago.  My
news is usually messed up, but I guess this time it wasn't just my system. 
Anyone else have problems?

IRC nick-BlueDevil

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: GRS00169@APPSTATE.EDU (GRS9999101)
Subject: *** WEEK SIX *** poll results
Organization: APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 07:50:17 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

---alt.drumcorps weekly WRITER'S POLL-------------------------------------------
                                      

WEEK SIX RESULTS


			points   1st place   last
				votes       week

1.	Blue Devils	 133   	 (7)	    1
2.	Star of Indiana  124     (1)	    4
3. 	Cavaliers	 121	 (1)	    2
4.	Phantom Regiment  102               3
5.	Madison Scouts    94                7
6.      Cadets of Bergen  92                5
7.	Santa Clara Vanguard  85	    6
8.      Blue Knights	  72                8
9.      Crossmen          68	            9
10.     Velvet Knights    53		   10
11. 	Glassmen	  42	           11
12.     Freelancers       33		   12
13.     Spirit of Atlanta 27     	   15
14.     Bluecoats         19               13
15.     Sky Ryders         8               14

16.	Marauders
17.	Boston Crusaders
18.     Dutch Boy   
19.	Troopers
20.     Southwind
21.     Magic of Orlando
22.     Colts
23.     Black Gold
24.     Carolina Crown
25.     Northern Aurora

WEEK SEVEN polls due by the usual time... 10am est  next THURSDAY...

thanks again .  I apologize for the delay .

patrick sloan
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: tmv@blitzen.uucp (26129-vandewater)
Subject: Re: Bridgemen
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 02:40:49 GMT

> Much as I hate to disagree with a fellow Cadet, I think the Phantom bashing is
> somewhat overdone. Last summer the Cadets and Phantom had the opportunity
> to share some meals with each other when they came to the east coast at the
> beginning of the season. We were all a little wary of it, but George Hopkins
> told us to just talk to  them and figure out that they weren't the over-
> competative monsters that we thought they were (and to let them figure out
> that we weren't the escaped criminals they probably pictured us as). It worked
> out pretty well: we all made some friends and the two corps were pretty
> friendly for the rest of tour.

I'm glad to hear this and I apologize if I offended any Phantom 
supporters/fans...I just wanted to elicit some response on the net!  Yeah,
I guess a corps can change over a period of 8 years, and I'm glad 
Cadets and Phantom enjoyed each other's company while on tour.  To me,
the best times I had on tour was sharing good times with the other
corps.  One example comes to mind:  Cadets had a priest/minister
on tour with them in 83 (Father Ernie).  Anyway, each Sunday we
would get together, under a tree or something, and hold a mass.  We
always invited the members of the other corps touring with us to
attend and many of their members did.  We always chatted and
had good times.  Father Ernie would always say that we're competitors
on the field but now we're meeting for a common cause...it was
really nice.
> 
> Regardless of what might have been true in
> 1983, it's not accuracte today to single Phantom out as a bad example in the
> activity.
OK, and point taken!  I'm glad things have changed.
> 
> So cut Phantom a break. Just because one *ass* wore a '92 championship
> jacket, the whole program is not at fault.
Yeah, I got your point...just seeing that jacket remind me of everything
they did in 83 and I thought everything was still the same.
> Just my opinion, of course.
> -Doug Rank
> 1991 Cadets of Bergen County
and mine too!
Tom VandeWater
1983 Garfield Cadets
From: kal@vaxeline.ftp.com (Kelleigh A. Lewis)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Oldtimer new to network
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:33:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: vaxeline.1992Jul21.133315.6805
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA

In article <1992Jul20.210546.14882@ncsu.edu> jvbutera@grad01.math.ncsu.edu (Jeffrey V. Butera) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.203139.23999@hubcap.clemson.edu> rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry) writes:
>>hall@cs.uidaho.edu (Kelly Hall) writes:
>>
>
>How about the Sanctians (sp?) from Mass.   I was told they were the first
>corps to win the A60 category (as I understand, A60 didn't compete in finals
>until 1985ish?  Someone help me.)  Anyway, they won A60 in 85 (give/take
>a year).  Had friends in there, in fact, I was almost there at the tender
>age of 14....
>

>>>>I remember the Sanctians! They were from Weymouth, MA!  They had a problem 
gaining members, they almost merged with the Diplomats from Malden, MA...but
it fell through. There was a good amount of kids who wanted to do it, but
the management from both corps had some differences!

Too bad, there could have been one more decent corps from MA!

  Kelleigh

 P.S. hey everyone, I love reading all the old "Tour Stories"...keep 'em 
  coming!
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: jvbutera@grad00.math.ncsu.edu (Jeffrey V. Butera)
Subject: Re: Problem posting
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:03:05 GMT

In article <Jul.27.14.27.46.1992.8490@andromeda.rutgers.edu> dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ken Dowzycki) writes:
>
>
>   If you are reading this post, please let me know by
>either following up or e-mail.  I seem to be having trouble
>posting these days.  My computer dept. does not believe me,
>because the posting shows up at our site, yet it does not
>reach anyone else on the net. ( I have e-mailed individuals
>and they have not seen my postings recently).
>
>   I am posting this on Monday, July 27, 2:30 pm, EST.
>
>   If ANYONE would be so kind as to include what time they
>spotted this posting and from where, it would be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>   My e-mail address is    dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu
>
>Thank you.  Ken Dowzycki
>
>P.S.  Thanks again Michael Fath for re-posting for me last 
>      week.


I read this group several times a day and this showed up on Wed July 29
in the Afternoon.  This help?

-- 
Jeff Butera <> Math Grad Student, N.C. State <> jvbutera@math.ncsu.edu

DISCLAIMER: My views are my own and I'll be a big N.C.State Wolfpack 
fan as soon as hell freezes over.  Until then... Go Clemson Tigers! 
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: bjh42543@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Glorfindel)
Subject: Drills and Drillwriting
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:22:39 GMT

As my site just subscribed to this group, I may be bringing up an old thread.
I apologize in advance.

I would like to hear what all you fans think about drills.  Who generally has
the best drill?  Is the hardest drill necessarily the best, or does difficulty
count AGAINST quality?

Also, if there are drillwriters reading this, I would be interested in what
you use to chart.  Computer programs, hand tools, etc.

Lastly, I would like to hear anything else anyone knows about drill, whether
it be drum corps, marching band (gasp!), etc.  Copies of old drills, addresses
of writers, ANYTHING!

Looking forward to lots of replies.

Brian Haag         bjh42543@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Re: Net get together (by Fath)
From: cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:07:52 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City


Sorry to disagree, Michael, but I feel that lunch might not be so great of an
idea.  First of all, I personally won't make it into Madison to much before
semi's anyway.  And we would still need to get settled in before we leave for
the stadium.  Second of all, both semi's and Finals start at ****6:30**** pm,
not at 3:00.  So, if you read my earlier post, I still feel that 30 - 45
minutes before semi's start in the concourse above the 50-yard line aisle would
be good.

Any comments, since I haven't been to Camp Randall?

IRC nick-BlueDevil

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Mauraders show described.
From: cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:52:40 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

> 
> Marauders: Excellent guard!!  I watch the horns and drill, but the guard stole
> the show.  I couldn't help but watch them.  They are definitely going to do
> well at Madison.  The horns pull off a tough book of "Sea Fanfare", "Capitain
> Blood", The Siren's Call", "Fantasia on a Dead Man's Chest", and "Revelation". 
> They have a good drumline as well as the horns.  Their visual show is going to
> be tough to beat for their competition this year.  Good percusive show.  This
> is one that you won't want to miss.


This is the post I made after the Omaha Nebraska show on July 20.  The
Mauraders came in 4th place behind the Devils, SCV, and Blue Knights.  Their
show was quite good and like I said, the guard is excellent.

Hope this helps.

IRC nick-BlueDevil

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: holt_c@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: DCI North Comments & Scores
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 22:13:03 GMT

In article <9207241936.AA16002@andromeda.rutgers.edu>, dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ken Dowzycki) writes:
> 
>    The 27th Lancers were another favorite target for Garfield
> as their guard would commence on doing warm-up spins and counting:
> 
>    ...... 24, 25, 26, 27 sucks, 28, 29, 30.....
> 
> or on a calmer day..
> 
>    ........24, 25, 26, .., 28, 29 30   eliminating saying 27
> altogether.
> 
> 
>    Granted, none of these things are capital crimes, but rather
> that no one is innocent.
> 
I find it hard to believe that something like this would carry on for a long
time, seeing as how George Zingali worked with both the 27th Lancers and the
Cadets.  From my experience with him, I had detected no animosity from him
towards 27.  It seems like he would have made a few heads roll and ended the
practice quickly.

					Charles Holt
From: z_delgadoap@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Start time for the Northwestern La Show
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:32:31 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Hello all, 

	I am planning on attending the Show at NSU in Natchitoches, La and I
was interested to know if anyone knows of who to call or when it starts????

Thanks a bunch

					See You In Heaven,
					Taco
		8
	      88888		
		8		R U A 2 J ?	
		8		z_delgadoap@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
		8		Andy Delgado

			  "Radically Saved!!"

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry)
Subject: Re: Bridgemen
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:41:12 GMT

jvbutera@grad01.math.ncsu.edu (Jeffrey V. Butera) writes:

>How about SCV 1989 when they won.  They had two people (a snare and someone
>else) who came over from Europe apparantly with fade ID's and the works. 
>Somehow, they were found out and kicked out in the weeks before finals.
>DCI actually met later to decide if SCV should've had their title removed,
>but didn't because the offenders didn't march ion finals.

The other guy was a eumphonium.

And actually the two overage members marched the first show of DCI week.
(Because you only get disqualified for the shows that you march the
overage members.)

The DCI board of directors met until the wee hours trying to decide
what to do about the situation on Thursday night.  Gail Royer
successfully convinced a vast majority of the board that there was no
possible way that SCV could have known about these guys being overage.
(By producing the false birth certificates and passports, etc.) If I
remember correctly the board voted and the final tally was 22-1 against
disqualifying SCV (Phantom stood alone, they have such a wonderful
competitive spirit in Rockford.)

SCV booted the two guys (actually turned them over to British agents and
the INS) and went on into history.

Another interesting aspect of this whole process is how a corps gets
checked for overage members.  Only another corps (or DCI) can insist
upon this process, and the complaining corps must put up a cash bond
which will get refunded if they were correct.  If the complaint is
false, the money goes into DCI's operating budget.

If I remember correctly, the amount is non-trivial (something like
$5,000.00) so that DCI doesn't spend all of its time looking for overage
members.

Later,
Bob
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=- Bob Berry -=- Net-Guru's Inc.        ! rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu   -=-
-=- Teach them quick, before they think. ! 803-654-7623 || 803-656-1076 -=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: kal@vaxeline.ftp.com (Kelleigh A. Lewis)
Subject: Re: Rolly Foot
Keywords: corps, drum, bugle
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:26:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.062207.5193@polari> cdoser@polari.online.com writes:
>I marched in corps in the '70s, then taught in the early to mid
>'80s. I came back to the activity in '90, and no-one could answe
> this question:
> 
>    Where did this super rolly foot walk come from, who started it,
>    what purpose does it serve?
> 
>Can anyone make a good case as to why I should teach it to any
>kids I am about to teach?
>-I really want to know!-
>Answers and flames accepted equally and willingly.
> 
>>>>There are a few reasons why "rolling" is in: 1) to maintain upper body 
control, 2) if you are marching on a bad field (rolling your feet)  and you hit a ditch, your chances of tripping a smaller than if you were to go in toe 
first! I've found it easier to "roll" out of a ditch....3) it looks much 
nicer and cleaner than just romping around flat footed, and if you are a horn
player, you can definately notice the difference in the music, epecially
sustained notes!

  Anyone else?

	Kelleigh 

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: exujsch@exu.ericsson.se (Johnny Schmittou T-EEG x7887 Dallas)
Subject: Re: Oldtimer new to network
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:56:25 GMT


I didn't see if anyone had mentioned these guys, but how about
"The Muchachos" from Hawthorne, New Jersey?  (Around say, 1976?)
We (my high school marching band) had an album recorded live from
a contest with that corps on it.  They did a tune called "Pictures
of Spain" (I had also heard this referred to as "Off the Line"?)
that was just incredible.  Near the end of that tune, on the
recording you could hear the warning gun go off and then the tempo
instantly accelerates by about 50 MM to a phenomenal finish.
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Internet....: exujsch@exu.ericsson.se | "Everything I say is the absolute
Real life...: Johnny Schmittou        |  Gospel...  Nah, just kidding."
Virtual life: Q-man   ---<<<I'd rather be drumming.>>>--- Dallas, Texas USA
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: tmv@blitzen.uucp (26129-vandewater)
Subject: Re: DCI North Comments & Scores
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 12:41:44 GMT

In article <BrqxLA.L3o@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v067q3ey@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Harold F Mayfield) writes:
>   3. Cadets of Bergen Co.
>      Well personally I hate this corp, but I'll give my honest opinion. 
>   2. Phantom Regiment
>      This show was great. 
>      A must to see!
> 
> Harold Mayfield
> '86 Phantom

Harold,

It's no surprise to me that you hate the Cadets being a Phantom
alumni!  Most people (and some judges I talked to) expect to see
the Cadets pass Phantom by the end of the season.
Care to comment??  :-)

Tom
---
From: dawson@willard.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: DCI North Comments & Scores
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:40:38 GMT
Organization: Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814

v067q3ey@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Harold F Mayfield) writes:

> Let's try this again......
> 
 [ etc. ]
>   3. Cadets of Bergen Co.
>      Well personally I hate this corp, but I'll give my honest opinion. ...
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 [ etc. ]
> 
> Harold Mayfield
> 
> '85 Bridgemen
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^
   Ahh... this would explain why...

> '86 Phantom
   ^^^^^^^^^^
   tho' this is a bit in conflict with the two points expressed above.  How
did it come to be, this move from B to P?  (Or was that about the time of
B's demise...)

-- 
dawson@willard.UUCP (Willard Dawson)
Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: ck10322@china.medtronic.com (Cameron Kaszas)
Subject: Judging
Organization: Medtronic, Inc., Minneapolis, MN
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:18:45 GMT

I agree with the judging "inertia" that exists, which would not
allow a corps no matter how good to win until they had proven 
themselves for a year or two.

I'll even take it a step further.  I think that there is a time
constant of 2-3 shows before scores actually reflect a corps 
true performance level.  What I mean is that a judge seeing
a corps will unintentionally factor in his opinions based on
the last times he has seen that corps.  If a corps improves
dramatically between two viewings, they probably won't get
full credit for the improvement the first time out, but if
they keep up the performance level, the judge will realize
that he wasn't just seeing things last time.  

As an example, suppose that the Moon of Minnesota Drum & 
Bugle Corps comes out with a show that needs some work,
and that the judges correctly evaluate it the first few
times they see it.  Suppose that after their 4th show they
hold a camp where they dramatically clean things up.  Charted
below is the corps "true" performance level (+) compared
against the scores that I predict they would receive (o).

   

          |
       80 -                    +   +   +o  +o    
          |                         o 
          |                         
 S        -
 C        |                     o
 O        |                    
 R        -                   
 E        |                    
          |             
       50 -    +o  +o  +o  +o
          |                         
          -----|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-
               1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8

                           Show


Unfortunately, this also works in reverse.  This is one 
reason why consistency is so important.  Doing one bad
show can hurt you for your next 2-3 shows, depending on 
which judges may have seen the bad show.  This is why
any serious contender for the title cannot "let down"
for any show (particularly in August), no matter who else
is or isn't at the show

Now, there are lots of other factors that enter into the 
scoring, which muddy the effect I have attempted to describe.
Each judge has their own time constant, and there are always
different judges coming in and out.  But In my 6 years of
marching (3 with a top-12 corps), and 10 years as a 
spectator, I have ample evidence for this "3 show rule"!

- Cam Kaszas