From: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Bob Marshall)
Subject: Re: taunting for 15
Reply-To: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 01:18:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.181608.8578@PacBell.COM>, jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria) writes:
>>Taunting doesn't indicate skill.  But it either indicates(to me),
>>lack of skill or that person is an asshole.  I'm giving you the
>>benefit of the doubt that you're not an asshole;-).  Good players
>>let their play show for itself(thus, being showing sportsmanship
>>[notice there is a penalty for 'unsportsman like conduct']).
>>
>Your analysis implies all assholes are taunters or lack skill. 
>Car 54 where are you?  Look around.  There are plenty of assholes
>out there who have never played sports and are not taunters.  They
>could be unskilled or skilled and still be assholes or non-assholes.
>What is your definition of an asshole and how does it equate to
>being an taunter.  There are plenty of taunters who are not assholes.

(Geez, I'm gonna be sorry to get into this)

As for the last statement above : probably not, if you define an
asshole as someone who is unpopular with the majority of players.
Personally, I feel that anyone who intentionally wants to verbally 
belittle someone, hurt their feelings, etc, is an asshole,
whether it be on the playing field or in any walk of life (including
network news discussions, John - read between the lines). On the other hand, 
I think every player in the NFL is a big boy now, and they are immune 
to the taunting. But on the non-professional level, I'm sure that it 
bothers a lot of kids, and should not be condoned or encouraged. Of
course, I didn't grow up in the tough environment you apparently grew
up in, John, so my perspective is entirely different. I feel that
taunting of the nature "I'm gonna bury you if you try to run in my
territory" is OK, since it doesn't belittle or deride the opponent,
and is not particularly unsportsmanlike, but a comment like 
"Nice catch, cement-hands" after a dropped pass is a comment only an 
asshole (there, we've run that word into the ground now) would make.


>Are non-taunters not assholes.  Come on, get REAL. :-)

Well, you were talking about bad logic. Here's a perfect example.
The statement "most taunters are assholes" does not imply "non-taunters
are usually not assholes". No one ever said that it did.


As for the real underlying question here, i.e., should players be
penalized for taunting; although I certainly done't condone it, I
really don't see what good it does to penalize at the pro level. Like
I said, I don't think it really affects the tauntee at that level.
Since it does not give the taunter's team any edge, then let it go,
unless a fight breaks out over it. Then you warn the involved players
and tell them they'll be thrown out of the game the next time it happens.
But if someone wants to be an asshole, let him; he'll get his one of
these days.

>  ---------  John Gloria - jpglori@sysengr.pacbell.com	--------	
=============================================================================
Bob Marshall                     \\     "It ain't age
Lockheed Missiles & Space Co.     \\     That makes me look this way
Sunnyvale, CA                      \\    It ain't the years, boys,
marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com\\   It's the miles"
"I tell the truth 'cept when I lie"  \\     - Chris LeDoux
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro