HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Combat archery objections....
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 11:49:24

 -> Why, good for them.  I wish there were more of them.  My experience is
 -> that heavies hate archers for two reasons that one 
 -> can almost sympathize
 -> with:

 -> a.  They have invested time, money, and energy (not 
 -> to mention all those
 ->     bruises) in getting to be heavy fighters, and 
 -> they resent some little
 ->     shrimp nailing them from N yards away where they can't possibly hit
 ->     them with a stick.
     My rationale would be more like "I spent all this time and energy 
 coming to this war, plus the effort of armoring up this morning, for 
 what?  To die to an arrow?  There's even less learning in that than in 
 being one-shotted by a duke!  I came all this way to get some fighting 
 in."
     Yes, some of it is the effect of dying to someone out of sword 
 range.  Sure, it's perfectly period to die to an arrow, but there's 
 no learning, and no chance that your previous efforts to learn will 
 help you live.
     Oh, out in Ansteorra, archers are usually rapier-folks (who already 
 delete{ last 2 words), who some heavy-weapon folks feel are less 
 pain-tolerant than they are.  (I may be behind the wave on this, I'm 
 wading through tons of messages)   Also, I *think* (not sure) that all 
 it requires to be an archer here is to have light-weapons armor and a 
 bare modicum of training.  Personally, I have seen few archers that I'd 
 really respect (combat archers, that is).
     Disclaimer:  It's been years since I fought.  (Armor regs keep out 
 stripping my spotty armor)
        Gwenllian CfM

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: kinsey@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Retraction: Possible West Kingdom Law
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:12:43 GMT
Reply-To: kinsey@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA


Greetings to the gentles of the Rialto:

I few days ago I posted an article which stated that I understood there
existed a West Kingdom Law prohibiting going barefoot at events.

After talking with the Kingdom Chiurgeon last night he said that no such
law exists for the West Kingdom.  

Apparently, this kind of law would be too difficult to enforce. However,
it is highly reccommended to take consideration about where you wish
to bare your feet.

My most humble apologies for the misinformation.

Euriol of Lothian
From: mozart@coos.dartmouth.edu (Sting)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Scotland's Depraved
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:09:15 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In <01GNT0XPG3KKFUMB2P@ulkyvx.bitnet> CESNYD01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (AlberCrombie - The Space Gopher) writes:

>Pennsic XXI -- from the Mid to the East
> 			JUST WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR!!!!!!
>(you got lucky!)

*smile* Luck, mayhap...but also better than 3:2 odds in our favour.

Long Live the King!

-Cragin

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cragin von Pfeffenhausen
Minstrel for Dragon Clan
Sting@Dartmouth.EDU / mozart@coos.dartmouth.edu / (603) 643-5716
  all requests granted!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: griff@anvil.intel.com (Griff Griffith)
Subject: Chivalric Ideals
Keywords: research
Organization: Development Tools Operation, Intel Corp., Hillsboro  OR
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:08:27 GMT

Greetings - 

	I recently posted a query about the "Nine Worthies".  These
were men of note in the medieval world.  I received a very nice
response naming those individuals (Thanks again gretchen! :-) Now,
the gentle who is checking this out would like to know: of these
"Nine Worthies", it was believed that these men personafied the
nine chivalric attributes.  Ie. "Honor", "Faith", etc.  Does anyone
know (or have read) what are the Nine Attributes?  How do these
"match up" with the Nine Worthies?  And yes, I'll post the info
gretchen gave me if needed. 

				-Cyrus
From: perkins@MSUPA.PA.MSU.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Combat Archery
Date: 16 Aug 92 05:31:15 GMT
Reply-To: perkins@MSUPA.PA.MSU.EDU
Organization: MSU Dept. of Physics & Astronomy

Jeremy de Merstone greets the folk of the Rialto, especially
krogers@javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers), who responded to my earlier posting:

> I don't think you have the visual image of what I'm talking about.  A
> pendulum ballistic measuring device is something as simple as a sack
> of playdough hanging on a string with a small device around the top
> that measures how much arc the string describes when hit.  The small
> device is something like a toothpick that the string pushes and
> measures max arc of the swing.

This is exactly what I had in mind, except for the "limit gauge" you
describe, which provides a means of "storing" the measurement, avoiding the
need for on-the-spot measurers -- a good idea.

> The archer stands all of 3 feet away and shoots it.  Go look at the
> arc, do the calculation.  What's so dangerous about this?  What's so

OK, at a distance of a meter or so, as long as the archer watches out for
the rebound swing, this is not especially unsafe (I was visualizing it
further out on the field).

The accuracy of the measurement, on the other hand is likely to be a bit
questionable (the harder the blob is hit, the *higher* it swings as well as
swinging further out, so you have to account for the angle-dependent
potential energy change -- not impossible, but as was pointed out in an
earlier posting, anything to do with conservation of energy in such a
measurement is likely to cause difficulty, as there is considerable thermal
and deformational energy transferred in the process).  One could easily get
a good *relative* measurement (i.e., the precision of the measurement may
be pretty good with even a simple version of the device), but converting it
to an *absolute* measurement in nice metric or English units for comparison
with other devices may not be so trivial (hence my comment about *accuracy*
requiring a particularly well-designed and probably expensive model).

> expensive about this?  It costsa lot less than a camera and strobe,

The strobe was purely optional, and if someone already owns a camera, this
method only involves the cost of film.  I concede, however, that the
pendulum method offers more in the way of "tinkerer satisfaction", and
would probably cost less in the long run if it could be gotten to work well
at all (there is little if any additional cost once the pendulum is set up
and operational, whereas the camera method would require additional film
for every use).  As you have dealt with the safety concerns, I think your
idea is probably worth a try. (Of course, the camera idea would work, too.)

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jeremy de Merstone       George J Perkins    perkins@msupa.pa.msu.edu
 North Woods, MidRealm    East Lansing, MI    perkins@msupa (Bitnet)
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Alexander of Kiev (mka Carl Alexander))
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Clueless Classes
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:44:10 GMT
Organization: The Rialto

>Vajk writes:
> 
>.... a letter of recommendation might help, and can
>probably be accepted as a good indicator if it comes from the
>sources Arval mentioned.
> 
>That takes care of some of the problems, but does
>not address, for instance, the problem of finding
>an instructor for things not included under any
>guild....
 
I suspect that by simply asking those who volunteered to teach to 
"please describe your background in this field and/or provide 
references who can vouch for your expertise" the Pennsic class 
autocrat could eliminate most of the real flakes:  they'd simply 
never answer, and would get wiped off the list after a reasonable 
waiting period.  The *really* hardcore flakes would send replies 
saying things like "I have a PhD from Jerkwater University, where I 
wrote a dissertation demonstrating that the Earth is, indeed, flat" -- 
i.e., they tend to be so brashly sure of themselves that they can 
also be fairly easily culled.
 
>In the long run, IF a kingdom officer or guild-head
>can vouch for someone, that's great.  If not, it
>does not mean that the person is incompetent to
>teach the class, and some other method would need
>to be found.

Agreed, and these should be cited in the class autocrat's letter 
as examples of the sort of references that would be acceptable, 
where appropriate.
 
Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East

Carl Alexander                          Harvard Square, Cambridge, Mass.
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu
From: mozart@coos.dartmouth.edu (Sting)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic Tournament
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:05:16 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In <1992Aug20.151457.9049@socrates.umd.edu> sussman@socrates.umd.edu (Jeff Sussman) writes:

>Greetings Unto the Rialto from Richard Fitzgilbert!

[some Bitf of Manuscript deftroyed by Fire]

>What does everyone think of the Town Battle?  I thought it was a good battle.
>It showed creativity and flexibility not often seen by Pennsic planners.  It
>needs some tweaks (marshalling this battle was way too dangerous) but I'm sure
>they can be addressed.

My biggest objections to the town battle were that a) people didn't really
use the buildings at all...it was a small field-battle with obstacles, and 
furthermore, there was no provision made for torching the huts!

Obviously really torching them would be a bit excessive.  I heard a couple of
proposals around the fireside ... one was to use smoke-bombs and have someone
carrying a "torch" that can light the huts if it touches them.  Alternately,
someone suggested a marshal in or around each hut to give a three-minute 
warning like "This hut is burning.  Three minutes to leave or you die."

I'm not really sure what would work best, but that would be a slick addition,
I think.  Certainly the Town-Battle _idea_ is a great one, and I think it ought
to become part of the standard repertoire.

Anyone have any different views?

-Cragin

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cragin von Pfeffenhausen
Minstrel for Dragon Clan
Sting@Dartmouth.EDU / mozart@coos.dartmouth.edu / (603) 643-5716
  all requests granted!
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Scots garb for Women
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:18:00 GMT

ST>  From: traite@sdac.harvard.EDU (Shirley Traite)
ST>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
ST>
ST>  Good Gentles on the Rialto,
ST>
ST>  dress circa 1150-1200 C.E. for females?   My "Scots"
ST>  garb consists of a T-tunic with an arisaid which I've sort of
ST>  guessed at.  I've  yet to find any documentation.
ST>  As I am a lowlander, I suppose it doesn't really matter; I often
ST>  dress as
ST>  an English woman.

Both of your guesses are probably pretty close to the truth. Since the 
Lowlands were once the Saxo-Norse kingdom of Northumbria in the east, and 
North Wales to the west, it does somewhat depend upon era and exact area, 
but Lowlanders usually wore what the general run of English and French wore.  
The only good illustration of female garb I've seen dated absolutely within 
period was an airsaidh-like mantle, with nothing underneath, as was obvious 
by the exposed breasts! This was from the "Wild Scots" country of the Inner 
Hebrides, if I remember properly. There are written references that tend to 
show that for "Sunday go-to-Kirk" clothes a linen shift would have been worn 
under the airsaidh, or perhaps even an Irish-style lienne (an otherwise 
simple gown with huge sleeves). The airsaidh in the picture was an obvious 
attempt by the artist to render plaid of some sort...

Moreach NicMaolain
From: aboz@egf-bbs.uucp (Aboz the Untidy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Hi, I'm...
Date: 12 Aug 92 06:04:34 GMT
Organization: EGF, MN Public Access Unix

OK, my turn.
Mundanely, Bert Garwood is REALLY annoyed at the University policy which
doesn't allow remote callers to post on public subs.  Therefore I have to
post from a private bbs, then wait 3 days for it to show up on the
uniiversiy system so I can make sure it got thru.   I am a mature
individual with a dual career as racquet strnger and radio personality.
(Full time in sporting goods store, part time radio)  I just joined SCA in
February when our group formed, and am enjoying the heck out of it.  I've
even considered giving up the second job so I can have weekends for events.


Berwynn Aethelbryght abAckley is the son of a small landowner in southern
England.  Born in July of 1054, coincidentally at the time of a bright
light in the heavens (a supernova) which my pious father took of a sign of
greatness to come.  In my 12th year, another hevenly occurance fortold
another great event, the Norman's conqured and seized my father's small
holding.  Somehow ( I'm still researching the history of this ) I wound up
in Jerusulen as a hanger on with the first cruisade.  One day while
observing a construction site, I was accidentally struck on the head with
a setting maul and left for dead, but was discovered and nursed back to
health by a group of itinerant jewish stonecutters, who, noot
understanding my complaint about "a buzz" in my head, thought my name to
be Aboz.  I have yet to lose that epithet, which combined with  my usual
state of dissareay, is oten rendered as "Aboz the Untidy".  I now live in
a cottage in a wood, where I talk to small forest creatures and am left
pretty much alone by most people.   Excuse me, the local priest is here
with some of the neighbors.  Looks like they're going to invite me to a
barbecue.....






  




 the 




-- 
Berwynn Aethelbryght, Pursuivant of the Shire of Elverod, Grand Forks, ND
                BKA (Known on the BBS as) Aboz the Untidy
From: giffen@cae.wisc.edu (Hilary Giffen)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: kids
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:51:21 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

The Barony of Caer Anterth, Midrealm (Milwaukee, Wi) started a Page's School
for the younger crowd.  I started in the SCA at the age of 10 with my parents,
 but they
dropped out about when I was 14, and I continued on, by myself.  The Pages 
School taught many useful things from how to address various type of brass
hats to how to eat with long drapey sleeves.  To graduate, we also had to
perform 5 hours of service and become competent in several arts or crafts.
This gave me a good idea of what was available to do to keep busy, and I
got my Award of Arms at age 12 because of my service to my barony.

If anyone is interested, I can get the address of the woman who ran the 
school to send you information.

Hilary
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic Update (End)
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:36:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.714160741.F00003

LE>  DS>  Do Not Cross" this tape read "Caution -- Hard Hat Area."
LE>
LE>  Y'know that is *almost* acceptable (for emergency use, anyway). Maybe
LE>  groups should have a roll of that tape in a "tourney kit" to handle
LE>  situations where the field gets set up at the last minute. Something
LE>  more period looking would be better, but for emergencies, that
LE>  *would* get the idea across...

You can't get it for free like hazard tape, but those plastic multi-colored 
strings of flags are cheap, and look a *lot* less mundane.... 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lindal@killer.asd.sgi.com (Linda Levy)
Subject: Alaska Volcano
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:07:16 GMT

So.. The West Kingdom and the Principality of Oertha has truly 
out-done any Pagentry possible at Pennsic. How many Royalty have 
been welcomed by their populace blowing up a mountain in their honor?

Has anyone gotten first hand info on the safety of our people up there?
Does anyone have any word on the logistics of PURG? 
(do we camp in the ashes?)

Linda of the lakelands (who would like to know before she gets on the plane tomorrow)

lindal@asd.sgi.com
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Who Won the War?
Date: 20 Aug 92 05:08:01 GMT
Organization: Vanderbilt University student of numerology

To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!

In answer to Vincent the Calculator's question, it appears that previous
postings have not been very clear about this, but:

There was no war.

This year, there was a Pennsic Tournament, in which the East demolished
the Middle, winning most points very handily.
-- 
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Pennsic Schtik (was Re: Grand Pennsic)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:55:32 -0500

Arval Benicoeur (mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)) writeth:

 JM> The more I think about it, the more I like that idea:
 JM> Call the War settled,
 JM> and establish a Fair to commemorate the lasting peace. 

The first part makes excellent sense in light of the fact that, no matter who
wins Pennsic, the BMDL doesn't really change hands....


From: Ron.Krob@f50.n128.z1.fidonet.org (Ron Krob)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: filk song
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:08:00 -0500

For those of you looking for a clever song to sing at a bardic, I think you 
will like this one.  Your comments will be most appreciated.




I would like to post a filk song written by a good SCA friend, Lord James
Qui Connait of the Barony of Dragonsspine, Kingdom of the Outlands.  He
would love to have it used by anyone that likes it, however he would like
to have credit for it if the singer would be so kind.




THE FRENCH JESUIT'S SONG
By Lord James Qui Connait (James Bristol)


(To the tune of "If I Only Had A Brain" from The Wizard Of Oz)


I could while away the hours
In dungeons and in towers
Inflicting horrid pain.
I would work the inquisition
And enhance my own position
If I only lived in Spain.

I'd have hot irons and thumbscrews
For heretics and the Jews;
Confessions I'd obtain!
Hear the sounds of chains a clinkin'
At the stake a body's stinkin'
If I only lived in Spain.

I..could tell you why
Torquemada's a fun guy
I could make you cry to God on high,
I've got a rack, on which you'd fry.

I could help you see the reason
The True Faith is so pleasin'
And Heaven you could gain.
I'd no longer chat "Vobiscum"
I'd yank guts out, then I'd twist 'em
If I only lived in Spain....


Any comments you would like to pass back to me will be greatly appreciated
by the writer.

Reginald Of The Fells, Barony of Dragonnspine, Kingdom of the Outlands
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Contact Question
Date: 19 Aug 1992 22:35:21 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <9208192135.AA20146@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> TANTS@DTPVX2.NCIFCRF.GOV ("Tants, Rebecca E.") writes:

>I will be moving to the San Francisco bay area (Berkeley/Oakland/Alameda)
>on September 1st.  I'm looking for any and all contact/event information
>for that region, specifically for september (need to figure if i have to
>pack garb in my suitcase for the month i'll be living out of it before my
>stuff arrives....)

Oh, my, yes.

September 4-7 (Labor Day Weekend)
Ducal Prize Tournament.  This massive annual fund-raiser for the West Kingdom
Land Fund will be held in Marysville, near (more or less) Sacramento in the
Central Valley.  Bring light-weight garb, it will be hot; bring a cloak
because it may cool off after garb.  Bring camping equipment if you have
it; if not, send me email and I'll see if I can arrange some one for you
to camp with.  Bring money; you will want to spend it on auctions, fighters
to compete for you, the garage sale, cool lemon frosties at the Sea Rat
Inn, etc., etc.  Did I mention this is a fund-raiser?

September 12 (Saturday)
Bard of the Mists competition, when we get to choose my successor as Bard
to the Principality of the Mists for the following year.  This is a feast
with competitions in between courses; bring your feast gear; site/feast fee
is $10; wear your nice indoor garb.

September 26-27 (Sat/Sun)
Mists Fall Coronet Tourney, when the successors to Prince Alfred and Princess
Tyne will be selected.  I don't have a current Page on me so I can't tell
you the site right off, but I'll get back to you on that.  Bring outdoor
garb for running around in and something nice for Court; bring camping
equipment (see above).

I'll post or email more information later if requested.

Welcome to the Mists: swing a cat, hit a Peer ... (only you won't know it
because we are all Stealth Peers).


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Combat Archery
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:47:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.030721.24786@sol.UVic.CA> iwood@sol.UVic.CA (Ian Wood) writes:
>The face of the blunt must be at least
>the size of a penny and flat.  

*Whose* penny, milord?  :-)

>The maximum length
>of the shaft from the rear of the blunt to the front of the fletching
>(feathers) is 28 inches.  

Uhmmmm . . .  I think you mean 'back of head to inside--sort of
front--of the *nock*.  Would that it were to the front of the
fletching.  If it were, I could use my normal, 30 inch, draw . . .

>that a maximum of 70 foot pounds of torque is permitted for combat archery,

>70 foot pounds of torque.  

As a sometimes archer and a former (*very* former) Engineering
student, I'm afraid I have to question your knowledge of the term
'torque'.  I believe what you mean is  '70 foot-pounds' as a linear
force measure.  (That is to say, the string-driven travel multiplied
by the force applied.  The force might be either the maximum at full
draw or the averge between zero and the maximum.  Given the numbers,
it is almost certainly the later.  If we assume a string-height of 8
inches, and a maximum draw of 28 inches, then the string travels 20
inches.  The force will vary between 0 and 30 lbs.--assume the average
to be 15 lbs.  This yields 300 inch-pounds.  Hmmm . . .  Conversion
give 25 foot-pounds of impulse.  Hmmmm . . .  28 inches [2-1/3 feet]
times 30 pounds gives 70 foot-pounds--but this doesn't allow for the
string height.  Hmm . . .  again.  My Lord, are you sure those that
created these specifications knew what they were doing?)

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA