HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Not exaclty a repentance....
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:12:42 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Oct7.152553.26227@athena.cs.uga.edu>, heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
> In article <16069@mindlink.bc.ca> Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
> >At the risk of launching another loose canon, any comments on Shelby Steele's
> >book The Content of Our Character? It's a collection of his essays on being
> >black in America...I'm almost finished with it, and find it applies painfully
> >well to Canada as well--to the predicament of our native Indians and other
> >minorities. But I can well imagine that Steele bothers a lot of people.
> 
> 	I've not read much Shelby Steele, except for one exerpt of an
> essay, which appeared in "the Utne Reader".  I've been meaning to read
> his book, and when I do I'll comment on it.
> 
> Terrance Heath 

I greatly enjoyed _The Content of Our Character_.  I would appreciate,
however, footnotes.  He tells the story of one of the eastern state
universities (identified by Steele in the book, but I don't remember
it) that offered cash bonuses of $550 per semester for black students 
that raised their GPA to a C+, and >$1000 for those that made it to
a B.  Steele, not being a liberal, was very upset at the patronizing
tone of such an action -- the implication being that a black student
COULD get his or her GPA up to the level that most white students
would be embarrassed by, but wouldn't, unless given a sizeable 
cash incentive.

Unfortunately, because the essays contained _The Content of Our
Character_ originally appeared in popular magazines, there are no
footnotes, and so it would be a bit of a struggle to find the 
details of where this first was reported.  Similarly, Steele discusses
the establishment of black-only "African Theme Dorms," but doesn't
tell us which universities have caved into this sort of of liberal
segregationism (though he implies that San Jose State, where Steele
teaches, is one of them).



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: braca2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (BRAY CHRISTOPHER)
Subject: Re: Fictitious Fiction
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 04:15:58 GMT

Dan Simmon's _Hyperion_, and _Hyperion Falls_ have a poet Silenius who
made billions of dollars with his _The_Dead_Earth_ series, although it
was mentioned that there is a series out by that title now.
Or was it the Quiet Earth, cant remember.

hook

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: argument from buoyancy (was ...from gravity)
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:25:49 GMT

William R. Smith writes:

	John McCarthy writes:

		<<< description of baseball game deleted >>>

	Excellent.  Now could someone post one for cricket.  I've 
	never been able to figure that out.

The Snodfart (woops! thats Stanford) Sanskrit Society is putting on
a CRICKET & SAMOSAS bash at the Oval this Sunday, I believe. Be there.
I may be demonstrating my left-handers slow googly (or Chinaman as it
is sometimes called).

							Fido

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Librik)
Subject: Re: SF Rails (was: Whats the title/Author of this story
Keywords: SF railways mars
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 03:58:53 GMT

mcia@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mike Ciaraldi) writes:

>Also, there was a book about 15 years back, by Christopher Priest
>(not sure why I remember the author, but not the title :-)  ).
>The hero lives in a city that rolls across the Earth on railroad
>tracks.  The city's engineers follow behind it and tear up the 
>track, then rush ahead and lay the track before the city gets there.
>One of the weirdest parts of the book is that as the hero 
>moves away from the city, his body and perceptions distort,
>because of some sort of space warp in the city (connected with
>its power source, maybe).  So, by the time he is a few miles away,
>he is like half a mile tall.  At that point I started to
>wonder why they didn't just send someone ahead to grow, then
>reach down and pick up the city!

THE INVERTED WORLD, by Chris Priest.  One of the best mathematical SF
novels I've ever read.  The universe in which they lived was an inverted
sphere -- imagine the curve described by 1/x on a graph, spin it around
the y-axis, and reflect it across the x-axis.  Then map an ordinary
spherical world onto it.  Needless to say, all sorts of strange distortions
start happening as you move away from the "optimum" point -- essentially
the point closest to the origin (i.e. on the line x=y).

A cool book.

- David Librik
librik@cory.Berkeley.edu
From: gt0009b@prism.gatech.EDU (rahim)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Summary of Suggested American Indian novels
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:33:34 GMT
Organization: Ga Tech


     Here is the list of all the suggested readings I have received
concerning American Indian spirituality.  I thank all of you who
have contributed to this thread.  You have helped me a great deal.
Thank you.


Author and Title(s)
-------------------
Carlos Castenatos
	The Teachings of Don Juan, A Yaqui Way of Knowledge

Lynn V. Andrews
	Medicine Woman

William Kinsella
	Fencepost Chronicles
	
Scott Momaday
        House Made of Dawn

R. A. Lafferty
	Okla Hannali
	
Tony Hillerman.
        Skin Walkers
	Dance Hall of the Dead
	Fly on the Wall
	The Talking Gods
	Listening Woman

Peter Daniels
        The Incas



Author (no title given)
-----------------------
Louise Erdrich



Title (no author given)
-----------------------
The Education of Little Tree

I Heard the Owl Call My Name

Children of the Wolf series

Windwalker

Creek Mary's Blood
-- 
       "I could turn you inside out, but I choose not to do."
                                                   -R.E.M.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:39:52 GMT

In article <92282.111122U48073@uicvm.uic.edu> Cole Kendall 
<U48073@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>
>I too found Herzog impossible to get through.  I will add
>_Recognitions_ by Gaddis


When Gaddis's _J R_ came out I was intrigued by the reviews and, 
since I was but a Poor Sniveling Student at the time and unable to 
afford a brand-new hardcover book, I decided to read his earlier 
novel, _The Recognitions_, which the NYT Review had also praised 
and which was available in paperback. 

As I slogged further into the jungle of his prose the underbrush 
grew thicker, the sun faded away, the air grew colder as night 
approached, and I found myself lost without so much as a machete. 
What I'm saying is, I didn't have a clue.  This made me mad.  I 
couldn't remember ever being defeated by a book before, so I kept 
at it, and kept on getting madder.  I seem to recall reading the 
final chapters while gritting my teeth.  (Believe me, I was not unaware 
of the humor of the situation.)  I finished the book without the 
least understanding of what had been going on right in front of 
my eyes, and vowed to return someday.  With weapons.  Perhaps that 
day has come.  I'm older, arguably smarter, I've been working out... 

_Herzog_ is one of my favorite of Bellow's novels.  I too write 
letters to the dead.  (Imagine my surprise when one of them 
answered.) 

--Barbara
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Dashiell Hammett
Date: 16 Oct 92 11:18:30 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <9210152012.AA00142@cfdev1.shearson.com> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
~harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper) writes:
~ 
~> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
~ 
~>> . . . harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper) writes:
~>>>A mild spoiler follows:
~ 
~>>>         We waited a moment, and then Pete the Finn appeared in the
~>>>     dynamited doorway, his hands holding the top of his bald head.
~ 
~>>>         Reno called him a lousy fish-eater and shot him four times
~>>>     in face and body.
~ 
~>> Under the circumstances, and given the name of the victim, it seems
~>> likely that "lousy fish-eater" is an anti-Catholic slur.
~ 
~> I'm afraid I don't see the likelihood.  My understanding is that the
~> Finns are predominantly Lutheran, not Catholic.
~ 
~Perhaps it was Lutefisk season.  The Scandinavian Lutherans in Minnesota
~fall into three categories: . . .

But but but....

Finland isn't in Scandinavia!

pedantically ;-)
~ 
~ 


-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          

"Telling people how to think doesn't work. They always have stupid
 ideas of their own."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re: argument from buoyancy (was ...from gravity)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 15:14:39 GMT

Keith Morgan writes:
	
	An interesting (and similarly structured) observation can be found in
	Robert X. Cringely's new book _Accidental Empires: How the Boys of
	Silicon Valley Make Their Millions, Battle Foreign Competition and
	Still Can't Get a Date_. On p. 69 Cringely says:
		
	"Why are you doing this as a book?" Frankston asked me over

		<<< excerpts from book deleted >>>

	"Why not just do it as a hypertext file that people could browse
	through on their computers."
	
	I will not be browsed through. The essence of writing books is
	the author's right to tell the story in his own words and in the order
	he chooses. Hypertext, which allow an instant accounting of how many



Gerald Weinberg raised this point in "The Psychology of Computer Programming"
when discussing the problems of writing technical manuals.  The tech
writer wasn't guaranteed that the reader would begin at the beginning
and read thru to the end.  This presents a particular challenge to
tech writers.


William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields)
Subject: Re: More Notes from the Decline
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:57:45 GMT

In article <1b0su3INNkc@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (John Wojdylo) writes:
>msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca (Mike Morris) writes:

>>Mind you, the photograph wasn't quite a depiction of the total of my
>>fantasied happiness. 
>Picture-of-Happiness for the Day:

>Joan Shields spinning around on Mike Morris's erect dick while he's 
>reading "Gravitation" --- Meisner, Thorne & Wheeler --- on a reclining 
>armchair, in front of a fire.

Gee, that might be fun but I think it would be a difficult to spin round on
somebody's dick if he's sitting in an armchair.  I'm sure Mike and I could
figure something out.  Maybe we could read something from Anais Nin's _The
Little Birds_ and come up with an idea or two.

What do you think, Mike?

Joan
"I'd walk a million miles for one of your smiles
 but I'd prefer to ride."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel)
Subject: Re: Literature Students/Small World
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 17:42:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.005717.10708@athena.cs.uga.edu>, fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller) writes...

>By contrast, W. H. Auden writes:
> 
>    As readers, we remain in the nursery stage so long as we cannot
>    distinguish between taste and judgement, so long, that is, as the
>    only possible verdicts we can pass on a book are two: this I like;
>    this I don't like.

This sounds lofty and well-thought, but in all the conversations I've had
with friends and colleagues, it pretty much has always boiled down to
you either like it or don't.  Same with book reviews and friendly 
recommendations - don't we just recommend the book or not?  There's always 
qualifications as to what and why and how much, to be sure.

>        For an adult reader, the possible verdicts are five: I can see
>    this is good and I like it; I can see this is good but I don't like
>    it; I can see this is good and, though at present I don't like it,
>    I believe that with perseverance I shall come to like it; I can see
>    that this is trash but I like it; I can see that this is trash and
>    I don't like it.
>                              (_A Certain World_, p.290-1)

I would add two other verdicts:  I didn't read the book, but I liked it;
and I didn't read the book, and I hated it.

Actually, the quote sounds too theoretical and doesn't strike me as an accurate 
description of how we relate to books and/or expression (think of all the
flaming etc...).  Sounds more like wishful thinking to me.

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE)
Subject: Re: Literature Students/Small World
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:13:20 GMT

I have been following this discussion with some interest. In many ways,
it parallels the debate on canonical literature. If a book is great, it
must be great in some quantifiable way, the reasoning goes. If we can 
quantify greatness in literature, then all those books become must reads
for those who are members of the academic community, since they delineate
good form, but that form cannot be taught; it must be experienced. The
styles of Macauley, George Eliot, Dickens, Gibbon, Thoreau, Joyce are all
different, and are all great, but to explain the differences in some 
general theory of greatbookness would be impossible. So lists, like the one
above, are given without explanation, since to realise the greatness of a
work, one has to experience it. That opens the selection process to charges
of sexism, racism, ethnocentrism, anti-environmentalism, since these are
readily definable qualities, where greatness is not.
However, I have a theory: a book that is great is a book that stands the
test of time. By this I do not mean that only old books are great. A great
book is a book that stands up to reading several times, and on each reading
gives something new. A great book also stands up to criticism. It contains
multitudes of interpretations, multitudes of equally valid meanings, mult-
itudes of stylistic features, multitudes of themes. For example, Shakespeare
has been interpreted hundreds of different ways. Aristotle's Poetics, Neo-
classical theory, Victorian revisionism, Freudianism, Marxism, New Criticism,
historicism, feminism, homoeroticism have all been applied to Shakespeare
in an effort to discover meaning in the works. The brilliant thing is that
Shakespeare is full enough of meaning to support all of these different in-
terpretations. That is what makes it great.
Chew on that for a while. I will post later on why contemporary fiction
does not share this greatness, and why the concept of greatbooks is out of
date.
Michael Wise
Fear and loathing in Las Vegas continues...
From: jjh00@diag.amdahl.com (Joel Hanes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Alaska (books sought)
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:01:10 GMT
Reply-To: jjh00@diag.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation  Sunnyvale California

M. Vincent Busenbark  writes:
> 
> I may be moving to Alaska in less than a year, and would
> appreciate information about works of literature that focus 
> on life in the state, primarily among the inuit or native Alaskans.
> (I don't suppose it has to be limited to the Inuit in Alaska,
> by the way.)

Well, it isn't fiction, but I'll bet you'll find John McPhee's
excellent _Coming_Into_The_Country_ to be interesting and
informative.

---
Joel Hanes
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: evanh@sco.COM (Evan Hunt)
Subject: Re: Looking for thesis or book by PEGGY GOLDE
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Distribution: rec.arts.books
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1992 09:50:42 GMT


margot@disuns2.epfl.ch (Joel Margot) writes:
>I'm looking for a book or a thesis written by Peggy Golde. I'm doing this
>for a friend who couldn't be more specific to me, but the book deals with
>Mexico and was published at Harvard University Library Cambridge.

There are reference materials that would have the information you need. Try
an academic librarian.

-- 
Some of the new words in the American Heritage Dictionary:  Novelize, El Nino,
moonquake, ombudsperson, shock-jock, metafiction, hypertext, wellness, slam-
dunk, nerd, media event, colorize, preowned, CD/ROM, stress test, four-by-four,
prequel, waitron, infotainment, junk bond, supersaver, sound bite, HIV, wide-
bodied, stun gun, talking head, laptop, leveraged buyout, women's studies.
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: book-safe wood finishes
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:53:46 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

meltsner@crd.ge.com (Kenneth J. Meltsner) writes:
> Okay, I've already posted on this on rec.woodworking (all the gory
> details of my current bookcase design project), but I'd like to make
> one last stab: does anyone have any opinions as to the most book-safe
> wood finish?  My copy of the QPBC freebie on collecting and preserving
> books suggests "varnish or paint," which is about as specific as
> suggesting "contemporary fiction."  It does specifically mention that
> unfinished wood is a bad idea.

Plain old-fashioned varnish (the kind that is a major pain to apply)
is a tried-and-true wood finish around books.  Unfinished wood isn't
the best ideas because some woods are acidic (paper damage), others
sappy, and still others oily.

My _guess_ is that varnish and shellac are both OK, as is a good quality
oil or latex paint.  Once those finishes are down, they are pretty 
well "fixed" until you bring on the solvents.

Kay Klier  (herbarium curator, who knows of paper specimens that have
   been preserved since the 16th century in shellacked and varnished
   wood cases).


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.written,alt.horror
From: rickk@emu.com (Rick Kleffel)
Subject: Clive Barker's "Thief of Always", a preview
Summary: A fable for all ages, illustrated
Keywords: Barker, fable
Organization: E-Mu Systems
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:16:49 GMT


I just got an advance proof of the new Clive Barker book, and thought I'd
answer a few questions that hadn't yet been asked.  It's titled "The Thief of 
Always", and it's billed as a "fable for all ages".  No, it's not the sequel to
"The Great and Secret Show", or a continuation of anything else he's written.
It's his book for young adults -- to old adults, for that matter, an illustrated
tale of a ten year old boy who's gets to go to the "Holiday House" where your
dreams and wishes come true.  The color cover illustration is by Clive, and
there will be 26 full page line drawings and 14 incidental drawings in the final
edition.  

I haven't finished the book yet.  It's 227 pages long, and written in short,
easy to read chapters.  It'd be perfect fodder for a kid of about 12, or any
adult who likes Ray Bradbury in his "Something Wicked This Way Comes" mode.  I'd
say it could be his most popular book yet.  It's not as horrific as his other
work, but certainly as well written.  Another reference is Mervyn Peake.  It
reminds me a bit in feeling and certainly in the illustrations of "Gormenghast"
or "Letters from a Lost Uncle".  

While it does have a slightly sunnier tone than his other work, one must keep
in mind that it's also fairly sinister.  Barker's language, as usual is quite
wonderful. This novel has a sparser feel than his others.  When I'm done, I'll
post a review.  Ta ta.


-- 

Rick Kleffel*System Administrator*E-Mu Systems, Scotts Valley, Ca*rickk@emu.com*
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons)
Subject: Re: Fixing Damaged Books
Organization: Industrial Technology Institute
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:30:34 GMT

klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

 [[ many interesting and useful suggestions for healing damaged pages ]]

Might you have a similar set of suggestions for dealing with mildew?
-- 
scs:  Tied for last on the Zwicky list with `zwicky'.
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:12:48 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Oh yeah, how could I have forgotten "A Confederacy of Dunces"?  Flatulence
and yellowed sheets.  I bought a copy during all the hullabaloo
surrounding the book when it first came out and tried to get through it. 
Couldn't.  Tried again.  Still couldn't.  

Years later, while stuck in a backwater in Asia, I did actually read the
thing.  It was between that and watching lizard fights by candlelight.  In
the end, I wished I'd just watched the lizards.


-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: RE: Ted Williams (was Re: Baseball etc. etc.)
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:23:07 GMT


U48073@uicvm.uic.edu (Cole Kendall) writes:
 
> Actually, the "original" was my connection between the Ted Williams
> worshipped by Taranto et. al. and the Ted Williams depicted in Bouton's
> _Ball Four_.
 
I never said that I worshipped Ted Williams.  I only said that I had seen
him play.  Someone else -- perhaps Heather, said that he was god.
 
I also mentioned the book SUMMER OF 49 -- which deals with an
aging DiMaggio & Ted W, and the great rivalry between the Red Sox & the
Yankees.  Since I was already familiar with Ted Williams, the book left
me with a greater respect for Joe DiMaggio.  I knew all about Ted Williams --
but didn't really know that much about Joe D.  The book mentions some
interesting stats.  Reggie Jackson hit 500+ home runs, but struck out
2500+ times.  Ted Williams was amazing -- at 524 HRs -- and only
around 750 strikeouts.  But DiMaggio had something like 320 HRs and only
370 strikeouts.  This ratio is practically unheard of.
 
 
Mark
 
 
Besides, everyone knows that Eric Clapton is god :-)
From: lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Grendel
Summary: twisty little souls
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:16:29 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct16.184308.16412@grebyn.com>, fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:
> 
> Why do we care about Raskolnikov?  Because the author makes him
> so goddamn *interesting*!  Speaking with the experience of being
> a psychoanalytic therapist behind my words here, I have to say,
> twisted souls are no less loveable, and they'reinvariably
> fascinating.  

But then doesn't the narrator remark, ( paraphrasing from memory ):

	"People, even the wicked, are more simple at heart than
	they think - and we ourselves, too!"

Of course, the narrator may be unreliable, but the narration is
in the author's voice, I believe.


Lew Mammel, Jr.