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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 01:45:51 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2839
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2839

                            Friday, July 31, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 671

                               Blind Educators
                                Amiga Vs Ibm
                            Nfb Bbs Censorship??
                             Re: "blind loyalty"
                               "Blind Loyalty"
                              Re: Modern canes
                             Re: Artic Question
                             Re: Os2 and speech
                              Re: Screen Reader
                           Re: DOGS AND LANDLORDS


                                ******


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------



Subject: Blind Educators
From: Warren.Figueiredo@f6.n3800.z1.fidonet.org (Warren Figueiredo)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3800/6 - CompuChurch (tm) IH, Baton Rouge LA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

PH>I would like to get in touch with blind public school teachers.  A
PH>blind student who is graduating this summer from Purdue University

Give Tom Ley a call at the Louisiana Center for the Blind's toll-free
number which is 1-800-234-4166. Tom is a successfully employed math
teacher in public schools. He would be glad to help out.

Warren

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Subject: Amiga Vs Ibm
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hello, Chris.

You write that you assume speech software works by patching itself into
programs.  That's partially so.  Although I have not written speech
software myself, I should say that speech software for IBM compatibles,
at least, work by installing themselves as TSRs.  They patch themselves
into memory in such a way that they intercept the appropriate interrupts
so as to be able to monitor screen activity and keep track of it in
order to speak what the user asks.

I have not thought of using multitasking as a method of implementing
screen-reading software on IBM machines as until OS/2 they've not had
the capability to do real multitasking.  However, I must confess that in
trying to dream up a way to make DECwindows or MOTIF speak on a Vax/VMS
system, I thought of running a process (or subprocess) which would
monitor the appropriate things and send output to the appropriate port
which would be hooked up to a synthesizer.  But others have much more
expertise than I in this field.  I know that Doug Geoffray (author of
Vocal-Eyes) and Eric Bohlman (author of Tinytalk) both read this echo.
If you wish to get much more technical than our dialogue has been so
far, you'd get more detailed and knowledgeable info from either of them.

Glad to talk with you, though, and, as I say, there's no reason an Amega
couldn't be made to talk usefully for the blind.

As to the Internet, the only reason I have access to it is because
(don't laugh) I am the current guru for CP/M Kermit (Columbia
University's implementation) and CU gave me an account to distribute the
software to the central archive.  They said, essentially, "Do as you
like" so I've put myself on a number of mailing lists.

Great to talk with you.  Have a pleasant day.

Mike Freeman
___ CRR QWK 1.40

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Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Nfb Bbs Censorship??
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message to Tandy Way <15 Jul 92 11:51> Steve Richards wrote:

 SR> Hi Tandy, perhaps the issue of whether
 SR> Kenneth Jernigan is saint or
 SR> sinner is largely irrelevant.  Maybe

I'd agree with that.  However, he was/is a convenient focus for vitriole
and symbol for the issues which NFB has chosen to take stands on.

 SR> the question is whether *anyone*
 SR> should hold the reins of power for
 SR> such a long time.  There's a famous

That calls into question whether and to what extent one believes in
democracy or the right of the people to choose whom they will.  To say
that terms of office should be limited (in private organizations or in
public office) is, in the end, to say that the public cannot be trusted
to make wise decisions (and, hence, that some artificial mechanism,
i.e., term limits, must be introduced to circumvent the absolute right
of the people to choose whom they would elect) or, alternatively, that
democratic processes do not really exist (either in the private
organizations or in government).  Most of us would not admit the latter;
hence, the former must logically hold.  I find this anathema.

Should or should not the people have been allowed to choose FDR as their
President four times?  Apparently, the Republicans did not think so for
they pushed through the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution in 1952.  It
is a fine point of irony that the first Republican President to get
caught by that amendment was Ronald Reagan.  The Republicans were
hoisted by their own petard.

For my part, if I say that I believe in the people's right to choose,
for better or ill, then I must accept this as truly valid.  Hence,
artificially imposing change via term limits doesn't square with this
belief.  BTW, we should remind ourselves that the quintescential
believer in continually stirring the pot in hopes of boiling up new
ideas was Chairman Mao.  Thanks but no thanks.

 SR> old saying that opines, "Power
 SR> corrupts, and absolute power corrupts
 SR> absolutely."  Be that as it may, it
 SR> seems to me that new ideas come
 SR> fastest whenever new people assume
 SR> power, and that isn't happening much
 SR> in NFB.  To be sure, they're fighting

It isn't, huh?  Then how come a good many members of the NFB National
Board of Directors consist of the young whippersnapper student types of
the '70's and '80's?  The RLFers have taken over.  And believe me, there
are a lot of younger folks coming into the organization that are pushing
us old f**ts because they don't believe that things can't be done.

Hard as it is for those who are not in NFB to believe, the NFB is not
just Dr. Jernigan and President Maurer.  But it would appear that few
who are not *in* the organization seem to be able to acknowledge this.
So be it.

 SR> for a dream, and it may be a
 SR> worthwhile dream, but whose dream is
 SR> it?  There's another old quote,

I consider it my dream; I warrant that others feel similarly.

 SR> "The sins of the fathers are visited
 SR> upon the children."  I wonder; is
 SR> that true of dreams, too?

Dunno.  Guess we'll find out.

There's another old quote that goes:  "Those who do not learn from
history are condemned to repeat it."  Wonder how this dovetails with the
sentiments of those who would continually change leadership for change's
sake?

Mike Freeman
... ** Sevareids law:  The cause of problems is solutions. **
___ CRR QWK 1.40

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!126!Mike.Freeman
Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: "blind loyalty"
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message to Tom Gerhart <15 Jul 92 20:25> Jamal Mazrui wrote:

JM> Hats off to Amy Cuningham
 JM> for her courage and determination to seek and tell the
 JM> truth!  Despite all the cries of foul play by NFB "blind
 JM> loyalists" in this echo, I observe that almost nothing has
 JM> been specified that contradicts Cuningham's analysis.  Of

Au contraire, I specified two matters in which the truth was at variance
with statements in the Cunningham article.  Perhaps the lack of
point-by-point rebuttals of the article in this echo has something to do
with the fact that most of the slanted material and falsehoods so baldly
paraded in the article as truth have been disproved long ago in other
forums and the fact that most of those participating in this echo who
criticize the National Federation of the Blind indicate by subtle and
not-so-subtle means that they wouldn't believe any counterarguments
should such be proffered.  Under the circumstances, I would suspect that
many NFBers have probably said to themselves, "Why bother?"

 JM> course, some matters may be subjectively interpreted in
 JM> different ways, but it is a journalist's job to make some
 JM> subjective interpretations after making reasonable efforts
 JM> to accumulate and check all relevant facts.  Amy Cuningham

This is the first time I've seen it maintained that subjectivity was
part of a journalist's job.  To be sure, some subjectivity will enter
into the work of an investigative reporter, if only because he/she must
pick and choose which facts he/she believes to be relevant, but I always
thought that such a journalist was supposed to make a great effort to
see that material was handled with objectivity.  The key here is
defining what are "relevant facts".  IMHO the objectivity of Ms.
Cunningham is called into question by her failure to investigate
thoroughly the veracity of the claims of those quoted in the article as
making unfavorable comments about Dr. Jernigan and the Federation.

 JM> did that.  She visited the National Center for the Blind
 JM> (NFB headquarters) personally.  Interviewed Jernigan on
 JM> more than one occasion.  In fact, she ran a draft of the
 JM> article by him to check for and eliminate inaccuracies
 JM> before writing the draft which went to press.  She was a

I am moved to inquire, Jamal, how you know that she interviewed Dr.
Jernigan "more than once"?  And I wonder if Ms. Cunningham had the
courtesy (and the guts) to show the final draft to Dr. Jernigan and
other Federation leaders to make certain that no inaccuracies had crept
in during the refining of the story?

 JM> responsible, independent journalist who deserves credit
 JM> for covering what many of her peers are afraid to do with
 JM> depth and honesty..

I am not certain that "depth" and "honesty" are the correct words to
describe Ms. Cunningham's article.  Nor am I convinced that "credit"
will redound to her as a result of the hatchet job that, IMHO, this
article turned out to be.  Ms. Cunningham may have made money; the
Baltimore Magazine may have made a splash.  But the article hardly does
credit to a profession that has produced such giants as Lippman, Murrow,
Sevareid and Cronkite.

Mike Freeman < K 7 U I J >
... *The National Federation of the Blind is changing what it means to be
 blind.*
___ CRR QWK 1.40

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!126!Mike.Freeman
Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: "Blind Loyalty"
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message to Mike Freeman <15 Jul 92 21:06> Jamal Mazrui wrote:

 JM> Hi Mike!  I am impressed with the
 JM> thought and articulation you express in
 JM> this echo.  I mean that sincerely.  It is ironic that the
 JM> the NFB administration you so fervently defend is likely
 JM> to be the very one that turns on you at some point in the
 JM> future because you thought too much for yourself and
 JM> developed some following because of your persuasiveness.

Hi, Jamal!  I appreciate and thank you for the compliments.  It is my
contention that NFB philosophy and policies, if explained with lucidity,
will speak for themselves.

My purpose in the Federation is not to build up political capital for
protection against future disagreements with NFB leadership.  Remember,
I elect them, not them me.  My purpose is to do what I can to aid the
struggle of the blind to gain first-class status and full integration
into society.

[Material deleted]

 JM> By the way, why don't you show us how free thinking you
 JM> really are and tell us about some specific significant
 JM> issues with which you disagree with Jernigan.

Requests such as this are an interesting phenomenon.  One would never
say to a loyal Republican or Democrat:  "Show me that you're an
independent thinker by naming several issues of your party's platform
with which you disagree."  One presumes that Democrats and Republicans
think for themselves.  Yet because a person is known to be in the
National Federation of the Blind, many people (especially those who have
no love lost for the NFB) presume that he/she cannot or does not think
for himself/herself.  Why should members of the NFB be subjected to a
standard which differs so markedly from that applied to members of other
organizations?

Consider also the implication of your request.  You presume that if I
agree with Dr. Jernigan (or other Federation leaders, for that matter)
that I have not arrived at my views on my own.  This demonstrates faulty
logic.  Assume, for example, that I came up with a policy that the NFB
leadership thought had merit.  We would be, by definition, in agreement.
Yet would I not have thought for myself?  After all, I was the one who
(we are assuming) proposed the policy in the first place.  Hence, the
implied assumption in your request is not universally valid.

Finally, I observe that in days of yore, i.e., before the National
Inquirer, People Magazine and A Current Affair, squabbles within
families were, for the most part, not considered fit subjects to be
aired in public.  I deem it appropriate to apply this same ethic to any
disagreements which I might have with others in the Federation.

Regards,

Mike Freeman
... *The National Federation of the Blind is changing what it means to be
 blind.*
___ CRR QWK 1.40

--
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Subject: Re: Modern canes
From: Steve.Bauer@f7.n291.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Bauer)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:291/7 - Union Station, Wichita KS


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 WS> Steve, I never heard about this, but if anyone wants to check
 WS> it out, here is his phone number.  Walter Crandell (707)
 WS> 762-6047.
I just confirmed with my friend that he did indeed pass away.  His
wife appearently sold the cane business to someone in Phoenix.

Steve

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Subject: Re: Artic Question
From: Steve.Bauer@f7.n291.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Bauer)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:291/7 - Union Station, Wichita KS


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I am assuming you are talking about Artic 3.0X.

In the Control Mode, select CTRL-U for User Definable Keys.  In the
third section  there is a key defined as CTRL-N for pass next key
stroke.   You can redefine it if you wish or use it as it is.

Hopefully, that will help.

Steve

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Subject: Re: Os2 and speech
From: Greg.Pike@p0.f49.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Greg Pike)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:272/49.0 - Calliope's Den, Garrison NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 Kimberly,

 KB> Greg, it's people like you that keep me so animated about OS/2 and IBM
 KB> (well, that and the fact that OS/2 is such a great product anyway!)

Why, thank you!  Fortunately we can't really get into a religious war on the
merits of OS/2 versus Windows, simply because they are so completely different.
The war will come when Microsoft releases its NT operating system, which
will provide advanced features similar to those found in OS/2.  Enjoy the
peace while you can!

For those who aren't familiar with what new goodies these new operating
systems will provide, the basic advantages to upgrading are multitasking,
multithreading, and, of course, the graphical user environment.  In a nutshell,
this means that you can run more than one program at a time, the operating
system provides built-in features to design more complex programs, and sighted
users will have lots of pretty pictures to look at, respectively.  A full
explanation of the new features would probably take quite a bit of space and
probably isn't appropriate here.  The point is that there are better and more
powerful things coming than what DOS provides.

 KB> before, IBM included one-finger accessibility right in the base
 KB> package, which I think is pretty cool.  I think IBM is actively
 KB> interested in making their software accessible - if there are
 KB> questions, I'd take Greg up on his offer for information!

I had heard about the one-finger accessibility once, but didn't hear anything
else about it.  I called one of the developers of OS/2 about it, and he
explained to me how to use it.  It seems to me that it's a little awkward
right now, but the developer I spoke to explained why it was done that way and
insured me that it was going to be changed to be a little easier to use.

My offer of information still stands.  I'm not a regular IBM employee and I
only work with the Screen Reader for OS/2 project peripherally, but anyone
who is interested can call me for information.  I have direct access to the
IBM people who are working on the project and I can get answers.  Sometimes it
takes a while, but I'm persistent.  You can call me collect at 914-945-4137.

/Greg

... Harry?  You and me?  Diamonds?

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Subject: Re: Screen Reader
From: Greg.Pike@p0.f49.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Greg Pike)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:272/49.0 - Calliope's Den, Garrison NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting David Tanner to IBM Screen Reader Fans <=-

 DT> After reading this I am even more convinced that the average
 DT> blind PC user would have more problems than they bargained for using
 DT> IBM Screen Reader, and the IBM support is obviously very lacking.

I'm going to spare quoting Tracy Carcione's message again for the sake of
brevity.  Suffice it to say that she had a problem with IBM's Screen Reader
and had trouble getting through to someone in IBM who knew what was going on.
She finally got ahold of an IBM employee she met at a conference who found a
solution to her problem.

Sigh.  David, it seems that you have some personal vendetta against IBM.
People regularly have assorted problems with all screen access packages, be it
from a flaw in the access package or just because the user is unfamiliar with
the software package.  Why do you think this particular problem was related
solely to IBM's Screen Reader?  Have you tried to duplicate the same actions
under JAWS, Flipper, TinyTalk, VocalEyes, etc?  Do you know how any of those
packages would perform under the same circumstances?

I'm certainly not going to claim that IBM's support is superior.  In an
organization as large as IBM, things are a little harder to do.  Developers
are spread out across the country and across the world.  If you've been
following the news, you know that IBM is making a lot of internal changes to
try to become more competitive.  Consequently, people are being moved around,
switching jobs, etc. and it becomes even harder to get to the right people.
Hopefully, IBM's changes will make support better than it was.  In the interim,
Tracy did get in touch with someone who could solve her problem, and the end
of her note was full of praise.

Again, if you have specific complaints about IBM's Screen Reader, let's hear
them.  Screen Reader for OS/2 hasn't been publicly released yet, so you still
have a chance to play a part in the development cycle.  Let's hear what you
don't like and I'll see what I can do to get things changed in the upcoming
release.  "...more problems than they bargained for..." is a little too vague
to take to the developers.

This should be a given, but just for the record, the views and opinions
expressed here do not necessarily represent those of IBM.  IBM is a big
organization fully capable of forming its own complex views and opinions;
I am but a mere grunt programmer with very simple views and opinions.  Just
the way I like it!

/Greg

... Harry?  You and me?  Diamonds?

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Internet: Greg.Pike@p0.f49.n272.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: DOGS AND LANDLORDS
From: Vixen@f11.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Vixen)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:203/11 - The Broken Rose BBS, Sacramento CA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 VIXEN > So how is it that I can be charged a pet deposit for a dog
 VIXEN > guide being present in my home when California Civil Code
 VIXEN > says that a landlord cannot levy any such extra charge?
 VIXEN > Also, why does the same Civil Code make it very clear that
 VIXEN > even though such an extra charge cannot be levied, just the
 VIXEN > same, the dog guide user is responsible for any damage done
 VIXEN > by the dog guide.

 TOM G > Vixen,

 TOM G > I think according to the code you mentioned you should ask
 TOM G > for a refund of the $200.

 Well, after doing some investigating, I have found that there are
 some real problems with Guide Dog legislation in not only
 California, but every state. I will post a message to all concerning
 this matter since a number of us are participating in this thread
 and it will be easier than writing individually addressed messages.

 TOM G > The second point you made is whether the blind person
 TOM G > should be responsible for the actions of his or her dog.
 TOM G > I think that is very reasonable. tom G.

 No, you have missed my point completely. What I was addressing was
 the contradictory application of the California code. The point here
 being, that the code states that landlords cannot levy an extra charge
 because of a dog guides prescence while making it clear that the dog
 guide owner will be reponsible for any damage done by the dog.
 The way I would read that in simple English would be, Even though a
 a landlord cannot charge us a pet deposit because of our dog guides,
 we must take responsibility for any actual damage the dog may do.
 All the while, keeping in mind, that as we all know, a pet deposit
 is monies paid in advance to the property owner against possible
 future damages. So, why then bother to say, the landlord cannot
 levy any extra charge because of the dog guides prescence and that
 the dog guide owner will be responsible for any damages just
 the same, if the code "does not" mean what it implies and that
 landlords can charge us pet desposits. In other words, the code,
 as written, is almost useless as a point of issue when arguing
 the legality of a pet deposit imposed on dog guide.

 As to the actual matter of whether or not dog guide user are
 responsible for the behaviours of and damages done by their dog
 guides, of course they are. I never implied or suggested otherwise,
 to do so, would be ludicrous.

 If you're further intesested, keep an eye out for my message to all,
 as I would love to continue hearing from others in this matter. I
 wonder how many other dog users in BLINKTALK may have been charged a
 pet deposit because of their dog guide.

 Keepin' the faith!

 .                          Vixen

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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2839 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU