HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij)
Subject: Re: Mother/Father roles (was Re: Indian women in the Workplace India v/s USA)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:44:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.231942.27132@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>This emotional and physical closeness of the mother and the child makes
>it logical that they would spend more time together.

The danger in such "functional" arguments is that you use the status quo
to support an argument for what ought to be rather than what already is.

In other words, just because in many human societies, women spend more time
in child rearing than men do, doesn't make it necessarily right, or
advantageous, or equal, or fair.  As long as we realize that,
we men as fathers may begin taking a more active role in bringing children
up.

The same goes for cooking food for the family, cleaning up around the house,
and other duties that women currently shoulder.

I have heard it argued by II parents that women are "naturally" more suited
for child-raising because they're "naturally" more caring.  Beyond the
male and female extremes of muscularity or aggression,
much of what people take for granted as biologically natural is actually
culturally conditioned.  There are some societies in which women are 
aggressive and warlike, and men are passive and nurturing.  (Example from
any basic Anthropology course.)

In traditional Indian families, women have become the way they are due
to many influences from the Indian culture.

For example, secretaries are perceived positively as caring and people-
oriented, and negatively as praise-dependent and lacking leadership.  These
traits are derived specifically from their work environment and role
in corporations.  (Example from WOMEN AND MEN OF THE CORPORATION, a
classic sociological study by Rosabeth Moss Kanter.)

Responding to Alok et al. who have accused me of wanting to deny Indian
culture altogether:

If I didn't acknowledge my Indianness, why would I be wasting my time
on acuai?

If I didn't care about the issues, why would I argue with Alok?

If I wanted to throw out the culture entirely, why would I take the
trouble to point out its good as well as its bad?  (Though, admittedly,
that hasn't been for a couple of weeks :-)  )

What I want is modification of the culture: more tolerance, more liberal
attitudes, without losing the integral family strength.  Some American
families have achieved this; why can't IA families?

Let's work together to advance our community.

Manish
                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
                                                \_/.  .  . . ........
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: saeed@watson.ibm.com (Saeed Jaffer)
Subject: where the group is going (how deep! :-) )
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:20:37 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

This post basically continues a line of thought I was on in my last post
(Subject: Re: Choosing a name for this group).

Basically, I've enjoyed reading acuia because it has been free from many of
the wild postings I see on soc.culture.pakistan (and consequently
soc.culture.india)  I hope that wherever this group goes as it attempts to
move up to a soc.culture listing it is able to avoid the useless flame wars
that appear on these other groups.

What I am talking about are the many times a cross-posting flame war erupts
between soc.culture.pakistan and soc.culture.india where one group of people
does a bit of Hindu-bashing and another does a bit of Mulsim-bashing and
exasperated people like myself consider some desi-bashing.  Somehow, the
title: alt.culture.us.asian-indian has been innocuous enough to avoid being
included in this.  Possibly this is because it gets much less distribution.
I'm sure many of you don't even read soc.culture.whatever because you gave up
on them completely.  Yet, I think all of us (at least most of us) agree that
the intolerance that sometimes appears on these other groups would not belong
here.

I think the name chosen for the soc.culture group will probably have some
effect on this.  A properly chosen name would be one that clearly indicates
that the group is for South Asians/desis/Indians/what-have-you who have been
born/raised OUTSIDE of South Asia/India/what-have-you.  Am I wrong in assuming
this?  Correct me if I am.  Isn't that what this group is and will be for?

Another thing -- I would recommend a FAQ.  I may be jumping the gun, but at
least something should be posted once in a while which clearly delineates who
or what the group is intended for.  

Of course, some may argue I'm trying to exclude others.  I don't think so. 
Anyone and everyone can and should post!  The point of going to a soc.culture
listing is to reach more readers and get more discussions going.  I just don't
want to see this group become victim to flame wars over differences that don't
particularly concern the South Asians born/brought up outside of South Asia. 


----------------------------------------------------------------------
--saeed jaffer        			So after a lot of thought
saeed@watson.ibm.com  			I'd like to reconsider
saeed@athena.mit.edu  			Please
					If it's not too late
					Make it a cheeseburger
							--L. Lovett
----------------------------------------------------------------------					
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: g89r4281@alpha.ru.ac.za (Pundarik Ranchod)
Subject: Anyone outside USA, Canada reading acuai
Summary: People outside USA reading this group
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:59:49 GMT


Hello to you all,

Yes, others do read this group. This posting is from Sunny South Africa.

I read this news group and find the discussions interesting.
There are many similarities between IA experiences and South African
Indian experiences. 

Bye for now,
Pundarik

--
* Pundarik Ranchhod               |   email: g89r4281@alpha.ru.ac.za    |   
* Dept. of Computer Science       +-------------------------------------+   
* Rhodes University               | All views expressed are my own !    |   
* Grahamstown, 6140, South Africa |                                     |
From: saeed@watson.ibm.com (Saeed Jaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Indians in Western shows/films/etc. (was Re: Sprint commercials)
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:33:28 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

Manish says:

 > "I am thinking first I am going to run, then I am going to scream."
 >    -- Ben Fisher, SHORT CIRCUIT

Isn't his name Steven Fisher?  I can't remember anymore.  By the way, I really
enjoyed SHORT CIRCUIT 2 a lot too, if only because the Indian character comes
out as nearly the lead role.  Even though it's a totally sappy ending, it
really got me when he recites the U.S. national anthem at the end to get his
citizenship.

Yes, some of the greaseball Indian dudes in MISSISSIPPI MASALA were hilarious.
My favorite line: 

	"He will sue me!  He will say he got a juhtka!"
			-- greaseball Indian chops at the
			   back of his neck describing whiplash.
			   <<not exact quote>>

By the way, Raghavan mentions me as:  "Saeed Jaffrey"  It's actually Jaffer.
Unfortunately, I'm not this famous Indian actor who portrayed the rich corrupt
uncle in Hanif Quereshi's MY BEAUTIFUL LAUNDRETTE.

Actually, hey -- that reminds me.  Hanif Quereshi's work must have a pretty
frank portrayal of "Asians" from the UK right?  What about SAMI AND ROSIE GOT
LAID ?  I haven't seen that, but MY BEAUTIFUL LAUNDRETTE certainly breaks
traditional stereotypes by centering on a gay desi (can't help use that word). 
I have his book, LONDON KILLS ME on my shelf, but I haven't read it yet.  Any
comments? 


----------------------------------------------------------------------
--saeed jaffer        		so this is what i came here for?
saeed@watson.ibm.com  		i don't think i can play your game
saeed@athena.mit.edu  		you may not agree with what i say
				none of us are perfect in every way
						-J. Cavalluzzo	
----------------------------------------------------------------------					
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Follow-up on To Marry (Indian) or not?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:47:49 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.200443.27504@ctp.com>, pghol@ctp.com (Preeti Anissa Gholap) writes:
> 
> 
> I didn't say "there are no Indian women in management positions
> in India".  

You did say that Indian women are 'virtually non-existant' in the
management. 

> .... far be it my intention to stereotype Indian women, or any women.
> If you read a little more closely, my original usage of the phrase
> "nice Indian girl" WAS in quotes, indicating that I was aware that it
> was a (none too nice) categorization. I didnt invent the phrase, after all...
> 

It is funny. You use these streotypes which exist around and then
deny that stereotyping wasn't your intention.

Getting a bit defensive, dear ?

> Anyway, the main purpose of this response is to clarify my original
> points (which you seem to have misunderstood)

No I understood it very well. If you are apologizing, say so :-)

>  and to restate that I did'nt mean anything to be taken personally
> when I used your quotes in the last article (and in this one) -- I just
> used them cause they seemed to support my argument so well  :)
> 

How selfish of you !
You are happy to pick up on people's individual choices to support
your argument. It is especially ironic since you in your reply to
Satyen wrote that it wasn't appropriate to question indiviual's
choices. It is sort of hypocrisy.

>  - Preeti
> 
> 
> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^  ^ 
> ^           **        $$                                           ^
> ^        ********  $$$$$$$$                                        ^
> ^      ********* $$$$$$$$$$$$       Preeti Anissa Gholap           ^ 
> ^    ********* $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$     Cambridge Technology Partners  ^
> ^  ********* $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$   304 Vassar Street              ^
> ^  ******************** $$$$$$$$$   Cambridge MA 02139 USA         ^
> ^    **************** $$$$$$$$$     pghol@ctp.com                  ^
> ^      ************ $$$$$$$$$                                      ^ 
> ^        ********  $$$$$$$$                                        ^
> ^           **        $$                                           ^
> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^  ^ 


Wo! You really love $$$s and ****s !

How is Vassar street now ? Has it been finally repaired ?

Alok
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: raghavan@wk28.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan)
Subject: Re: Indians in Western shows/films/etc. (was Re: Sprint commercials)
Organization: -
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 01:02:05 GMT

saeed@watson.ibm.com (Saeed Jaffer) writes:

>By the way, Raghavan mentions me as:  "Saeed Jaffrey"  It's actually Jaffer.
>Unfortunately, I'm not this famous Indian actor who portrayed the rich corrupt
>uncle in Hanif Quereshi's MY BEAUTIFUL LAUNDRETTE.

Sorry about that. Honest mistake. I was typing in hurry and switched
your name with Mr. Jaffrey, the actor.

On a side issue, now that we are trying to move this group to
soc.culture.* hierarchy, this is may the time to kick up the
group name issue some more. 

Any good alternatives to clubbing everybody under 'indian' or
'asian-indian'?

South-asian? indian.pre1947? ....

Regards,
Raghavan
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij)
Subject: Re: Long hair and closemindedness (Was looking for attention?)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:47:42 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.230438.29913@menudo.uh.edu> mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:

>Interesting I've gon through the same.  But, on the same note.  No one
>has said anything on GOTTEES or BEARDS.  My parents and their age-group
>frown on both.  I don't know of too many II/IA parent that sport
>either.  I've been told I look like a "terrorist".  I sort of like 
>my beard.  I grow it in the winters.  It keeps me warm.  I sort of think
>it's functional.  I'd think long hair would be the same way.  EngiNerd
>practicality here or as a friend of mine would put it, "an engieer can
>justify anything if you give hime enough time to bullshit"

Actually, my mom didn't like the goatees either, but my father did.  I think
he identified with them because he used to wear goatees and beards when
he was trying to look older.  Now he's trying to look younger ;-).

>>My parents actually don't object too much at all, neither about the hair
>>nor about the motorcycle, and I'm much relieved.
>
>Cool, what do you ride...

Kawasaki EX500 sportbike.
                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
                                                \_/.  .  . . ........
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: bhattach@tazboy.jpl.nasa.gov (Bidushi Bhattacharya)
Subject: Lonliness in the US (WAS: Re: To Marry (Indian) or Not?)
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:45:09 GMT

This issue of lonliness in American society is one that a lot of people from India bring up.
In my experience (living as a first generation IA in the Midwest and the Northeast), Americans
HAVE been friendly and neighborly.  On the street where I grew up, we knew everyone on the block, 
and summer evening lawnchair discussions that included my parents  were fairly common.  Since 
we were considered "foreigners" when we initially moved in, my parents made an effort to invite 
neighbors over to get to know them and make ourselves appear less standoffish.  I think that as
a result of my parents' efforts, there was a sense of belonging and community.  As a matter of
fact, we were helped by our American neighbors and friends on several occasions (rides to the
airport at 5:30 am for a last minute, emergency trip, etc.)

Also, I'd like to stand up for LA a bit here.  We moved to the LA area just two weeks before the
riots, and, yes, I do feel there was a sense of community between us and the neighbors then. 
By the way, we do know all our neighbors (and have a nosy one too!).

While it's certainly true that people growing up in a different culture won't be able to relate
to Americans right away, they might be surprised at the results if they make the effort.

Let me also make a point here about II's and IA's not relating.  Someone recently (sorry, don't
remember who) mentioned in a posting that he felt out of place among II's who only spoke Hindi and
excluded him from social events.  YOU MEAN IT'S NOT JUST ME? You know, I had EXACTLY the same
experience in college, where I joined the Indian Association to specifically get to know II's and
become more familiar with Indian culture.  After attending one or two meetings where the officers
kept drifting into Hindi, even though we asked them to stick to English for the sake of the IA's,
my IA friends and I just stopped trying and quit.  Granted, people feel more comfortable speaking 
their mother language, but the effort here was clearly made by us and not by the IA's.  My sisters 
and other IA friends have had similar experiences at other universities, so I think this is a case
of II's not accommodating IA's for the most part.  It's funny, actually, since many of the II's
will have kids that grow up here who will be just as acculturated as we are.

Peace,

Bidushi Bhattacharya
:-)
(so, Alok, am I male or female?)

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU (Puneet_S)
Subject: Re: Ten Best Reasons to Date Indian (Re:To marry (Indian) or not ?
Reply-To: mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:40:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.144507.3968@midway.uchicago.edu>, moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne) writes:
>I think it's an important indication of how much freedom and
>independence a woman will have in a relationship.  In moslem cultures,
>for example, a man can divorce his wife simply by walking around her
>three times and saying I divorce you.  A wife has no way to divorce
>her husband...the best she can do is go back to live with her family,
>and unless circumstances are extraordinary, they may not accept her.

correct me if i'm wrong somebody, but in moslem cultures doen't the
gentleman simply have to say TLAKH three times to the lady in order to
divorce her.  i'm not moslem but was consedering converting just for
this one particular advantage.. kidding... hope that didn't offend
anyone..... it was joke... around here you never know if someone
is going to take it seriously

>
>The question, however, is not so much one of divorce (no, that's not
>the first thing on my mind when I date somebody :-), but rather
>whether he is willing to treat me as the independent, free-thinking
>person I am.  That is a crucial question in a relationship, and one
>that I have found difficult to come to an agreement on with many
>Indian guys.

we're out there, you just might have to look harder... lord knows i've
tried and gotten burned a few times... not in the same repect... but
it is difficult to go out with someone who can't talk about much in
the world other than the weather.  i do understand.

>
>>-harsh
>
>-- 
>The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
>Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
>And you, you are a thousand miles away,
>There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem

Puneet (D-Poon)
VCD 

EveryOne's Entitled to your Opinion
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: raghavan@wk28.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan)
Subject: Re: Moving this newsgroup to soc.culture hierarchy
Organization: -
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 16:36:39 GMT

Amirthi:
>I appreciate the nomination, but am very computer ignorant.  I'm an
>English major, and pretty much just use computer to talk to people and
>write papers and do spreadsheets.
>
>I'm more than willing to help out, but someone would have to teach me
>what to do...

Posting messages and sending e-mail is all that is required. Being 
English major you can help in wording the official charter for the
team.

May be it is time the oldies [ Alok, Purna, Ron, Arijit and
myself] are 'put to pasture'.  :-) :-) :-) :-) :-(

How about a core team of Amirthi, Manish, Mehul, Satyen and Tapesh 
with Satyen in the lead?

Raghavan
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: soam@cs.cornell.edu (Soam Acharya)
Subject: Re: MCI commercials
Organization: Cornell University, CS Dept., Ithaca, NY
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:37:42 GMT

c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes ( in article 
<1992Oct7.233504.15517@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> ) sez:

	If you want to see stereotypical, watch THE PARTY (Peter Sellers) or
	SHORT CIRCUIT (something Fisher).

Or try certain David Lee Roth videos ( can't remember the songs exactly - 
listening to that screeching, pretentious, spandex-clad bozo is not my idea of a
good time ).  And how about that 7-11 owner in "The Simpsons"?  Then of course
we have our human-heart eating,"Ma Kali Shakti De" declaiming baddie in 
"Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom".  Not stereotypical, but not exactly
normal either.  How about old films?  "Gunga Din" is always good for a barrel
of laughs.  

Thank goodness for "Gandhi".  Unfortunately, the first thing that Americans seem to
remember from that film is his accent.  Aaargh!  And don't ask me about
"A Passage To India".  Forster/Lean got Aziz down just fine but Godbole is a
whole different story.

Dreaming of the day we'll get someone vaguely Indian looking on 
"Star Trek, The Next Generation".....
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Soam Acharya					soam@ee.cornell.edu
   Eng. & Theory Center, #369			soam@cs.cornell.edu
   
   "Waking up from bad dreams and smoking cigarettes
    Cuddling a worm girl and smelling stale perfume
    A hot summer's day and sticky black tarmac
    Feeding the ducks in the park and wishing you were away"
				- "That's Entertainment", The Jam/Morrissey
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: v064lnev@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Avatar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Parsis (was something else)
Date: 17 Oct 92 01:18:00 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>>[...]correct me if I'm wrong -- do Parsis follow Zoroastrianism or something
>>related to this faith?  Am I confusing two minority religions within desi
>>culture?

Hi folks,

	Though I rarely read this newsgroup (let alone post to it), I have
remained subscribed to it on the off chance that I should find something of
interest.  And so, it seems I have...

	I am a Parsi.  Parsi's _are_ Zoroastrians.

                                       .
                                     .'|`.                                      
___________________________________.'-{*}-`.____________________________________
Zerxes M. Bhagalia                '----|----` INT: v064lnev@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
State University of New York   .---------------.    bhaga-z@acsu.buffalo.edu
  at Buffalo                 .'                 `.  News Director, WFFT 104.9 FM
Political Science          .'                     `. Justice, SA Judiciary (SWJ)
Computer Science         .'________MDCCLXXVI________`. Computer Consultant (UCS)
---------------------N O V U S   O R D O   S E C L O R U M----------------------
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian