HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ALI00BAW@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU
Subject: Re: Happenstance Weapons
Organization: UNC Charlotte
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:19:15 GMT

In article <1993Jan18.185815.1701@netcom.com>
dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe) writes:
 
>
>In article <1993Jan14.193444.477@pages.com> kevin@pages.com (Kevin Sven Berg) writes:
>>I was wondering what other common objects might be interesting to practice
>>with, and in what manner.
>
>I was just thinking the other day that a properly-held car-key would add
>some real pain to certain Praying Mantis techniques.  We do 2-finger
>push-ups to strengthen the fingers for the point-strikes, but a key seems
>to give you a nice extra advantage.  Maybe I'll try some car-key push-ups...
>
>D
>
>--
>========================================================================
>Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
I have seen a --fairly advanced, don't try this at home-- manoever in which
a woman went into a sort of somersault (sp?) and came up with her high-heeled
shoes in her hand, held in such a way that each shoe-heel became a spike.
 
On a more mundane level, there are interesting possiblilities in an umbrella.
Does anyone remember the old British TV show "The Avengers"?  Remember Patrick
 
 
 
Another Rust-Belt Yankee Exile in Charlotte!
 
Any opinions expressed are mine, not those of the Atkins Library.
 
Bruce Alan Wilson ali00baw@unccvm.uncc.edu
McNee's character "Mr. Steed"?  Granted, the show was TELEVISION, e.g.
FANTASY, my teacher and I have done some interesting experaments which
show that not all of it was as farfetched as one might think.
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Judo, jujutsu, and competition.
Date: 26 Jan 1993 17:13:01 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com


In article 2sq@ms.uky.edu, satadd00@nx12.mik.uky.edu (scott andrew taddiken) writes:

A nice, balanced approach to some difficult questions.

Good job!


---
Dave Scheid -
From: robear@access.digex.com (Robear)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: hapkido question
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Date: 25 Jan 1993 08:08:55 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <4577@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>
>	My impression of hapkido is that while many of the techniques
>are similar to "standard" jujitsu techniques, many are not, especially
>kicking and the weapons they focus on.  Is this an accurate perception?
>
>								wr

Some Hapkido "styles" kick only infrequently, and only below the waist.
The kick is taught as a finishing technique, for when the opponent is grounded
and controlled, but has to be disabled.

As for weapons; staff, sword, knife, short stick, yawari, cane and towel
are all I am familiar with.  All were taught from the point of view of
disarming first, then weapon vs. weapon.

The techniques I learned were nearly indistinguishable from those of
the Ju Jitsu schools I have seen demonstrate.

	David Pipes
 

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: TKD rule survey
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:04:30 GMT

Hi folks,

During the last few tournaments I've been to and reffed, I've
noticed a couple of controversial points.  How would people
rule the following?

1.  Inside crescent kick (push, not strike) to back of thigh to
    jam opponent's back spin kick.  Is this an illegal strike to
    the leg (remember, it's  a push) or is it a legal block?

2.  Push kick to opponent's butt to stop his back side kick (aka.
    spinning side kick, dui yup chagi, etc.).  Is this an illegal
    strike to the back or a legal jamming action?

3.  Using the leg to block kicks (either with a shin smash as an
    inward block or with the outer thigh as an outward block).
    Is this an illegal strike to the leg, or is is a legal block?

What do you think?

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Evil Black Belts (Re: Fighting against animals?)
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:41:38 GMT
Organization: Vallen Software


We need to sick a Greenoch master on that idiot. :)  But seriously, how
could the military hire such goons to teach?

-- 
    // Amiga 3000   ___ \ Sam Hulick: shulick@indiana.edu (NeXTmail OK!)
   // 68030 25 MHz /__/\ \  )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\// OS 2.04       \__\/ / (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
 \/                     /   )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Initiation of motion
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:37:50 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

>position. If one could shoot without telegraphing, there was no
>possible defence. The requisite feeling was one of *complete*
>relaxation prior to the instant of shooting. The motion was so fast at
>that point that I couldn't tell about tension during the motion.

This is general. A top tennis server can get the ball from racket to back
net in less than the time the opponent can see, process and reactto the
ball (<.2 sec). So the return must be made by reading the body language and
movenment pre strike. The extension to martial arts is obvious. A spark is
unstoppable. The fastest spark i have herd of is .04 sec - QED.

As an aside, I remember someone who did Kyokushinkai showing me a Lee video.
Lee sparked in 3 frames (.12 sec at 25 frames per second). You cant stop these.

Moral - learn to spark and get in first. All else is pedantry.
From: hogue@cs.arizona.edu (Justin C. Hogue)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fights and blackbelt confidence
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:50:32 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson


  Along this line of stuff, I was wondering about people who used thier
MA to avoid other dangers such as being struck by a car.  My sensei has
a story where he was riding a motorcycle and was hit by a car that ran a light.
The wreck threw him very far but his MA training helped him react to what
had happened and roll when he hit the ground.  He was totally unscathed, save
the unavoidable chaffing from asphalt.  As he put it, his body took good care
of him, as he used MA without thinking.  Followup's please.
-Jowfus
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: nlund@kodak.com
Subject: Re: Wing Chun Trapping & Boxing & Do's & Jutsu's
Originator: lund@viper
Organization: Yes, please.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 01:24:18 GMT

In article <1jni4o$po7@agate.berkeley.edu> actize@garnet.berkeley.edu writes:
>
>[...]
>
>Do's and Jutsu's:
>
>With the importation of these arts to America, and the subsequent influence
>American practitioners have had on these arts as they are practiced here, I
>don't see how this makes any sense at all.  Could you counter this please ?

Well, you don't specify who "you" refers to, but since I was involved in
the thread, I'll pretend it was me.

The original post was a question of the meanings of some terms, some
Japanese, some Korean, and I think also some Chinese.

I took issue with a followup post, and disagreed with some of the
Japanese translations.

Based on statements like "We do kenpo, not kempo." and the associated
obvious lack of understanding of the Japanese language, I guess it
would be safe to say that the Japanese language may not have any
bearing at all in the US.  But why did you think my statements were
at all about the US?  Are we being a little ethnocentric?

(And yes, I have been accused of having overgeneralized, to which I
plead guilty.  Sorry, I will try to be more careful in the future.)

Nate
nlund@kodak.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hannula@viikki.Helsinki.FI (Jaakko Hannula (OPTOIM))
Subject: Re: Atemi waza in judo
Summary: Atemi waza designed for women in the 40's
Keywords: Goshin ho
Organization: University of Helsinki, Fac.Agric.For.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 07:47:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.142217.16586@netnews.smithkline.com> ryan@netnews.smithkline.com (Dominic Ryan) writes:

>I am curious to know if any clubs practice the atemi-waza katas as described
>in Kano's book.       

Kime no kata is practised quite a lot in Europe. Usually it is a formal 
requirement for the 3rd grade. (Sometimes it can be substituted by gonosen 
no kata, which is not an official Kodokan judo kata.) In the Kodokan 
regulation for the Dan grades it depends on the candidates merits when he is 
supposed to perform kime no kata and a candidate has also an option to 
choose which kata he wants to perform. The same applies to goshin jutsu 
(developed in in the late 50's by Kenji Tomiki). It's also interesting to 
note that the Kodokan has different grade requirements to gaijin compared to 
Japanese nationals.

The zeiryoku zenyo kokuumin taiikuu no kata includes besides the tandoku 
renshu also ju shiki (short version of ju no kata) and kime shiki 
(traditional short form of atemi for women, much like kime no kata). In the 
60's a short form of "modern" self defense, goshin ho, was practised quite a 
lot. It was supposed been developed by Jiro Nango himself in the 40's. (This 
form includes e.g. a waza in which tori carries a ladies handbag.)

In my experience there is a growing interest especially in kime and 
goshinjutsu, not motivated by the need of self defense but as a part of the 
Do. There are naturally also many non Kodokan kata which are practised. In 
fact, anybody can create a kata.

Jaska Hannula
University of Helsinki
hannula@mmtdk.helsinki.fi
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Realism through kata?
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:47:34 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1jpfg0INN6j4@male.EBay.Sun.COM> scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM writes:

>this realism is best developed through various Kata.

	I don't understan how kata can be said to have anything to do
wiht realism.  Especially judo kata, which are extremely formal and
stylized.
								wr
From: btv@omega.oche.de (Fitos Imre)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What in the world...
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 17:17:26 GMT
Organization: Private UUCP Site, Hungary
NewsSoftware: Rnf 0.73b

osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:

>       Don't I now?  You BET I do!  Why in hell do you think I have such
>       an intense terror/pleasure relationship with them?  They scare the
>       living shit out of me and I absolutely LOVE it.  Follow-ups to
>       alt.sex.bondage.kunoichi.hubba-hubba.
>>
>>And why not.  I used to know a few and some were quite attractive.
>
>       Ayuh.  Scary, ain't it?

Yeah, especially when knocked out while foreplay...Don't laugh!

--
Fitos Imre, in his 'special' fluent state of mind... AAAAARRRGGGGGHHH!!!!!!
(((  You have to forgive me, even I don't know if I'm serious or funny  )))
From: esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido in Argentina?
Date: 26 Jan 93 02:25:27 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York


From the appendix to "The Spirit of Aikido" by K. Ueshiba:

Katsutoshi Kurata
Tres Arroyos 340 PB "I"
Cap. Fed., Buenos Aires

Kenzo Miyazawa
Juan de Garay 2244 Olivos.
1636 Pcia. de Buenos Aires

Masafumi Sakanishi
Azonardo Y.C. Vigil
1852 Buruzaco, Buenos Aires
--
********************************************************************
Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu    |  One chance.
From: jfrost@odaiko (SYSTEM 0PERATOR)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: test 2
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 20:40:59 PST
Organization: Big Drum Network

sorry for the tests!

PACKET:         KC6NSE@KC6NZN.#SOCA.CA.NA
From: bleys@wisdom.bubble.org (Bill Cavanaugh)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Van Damme studies.....?
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:36:48 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises, Inc.

In article <C15GMy.6qL@eis.calstate.edu> jlockha@eis.calstate.edu (Jame A Lockhart) writes:
>bleys@wisdom.bubble.org (Bill Cavanaugh) writes:
>> In article <C13B6G.2A1@eis.calstate.edu> jlockha@eis.calstate.edu (Jame A Lockhart) writes:
>> >
>> >Shinanju...spelling may be off.  There are styles with pressure points,
>> >but most of the books (as well as the movie) was pure fiction.  The guy
>> >who played the 'master' was not even Asian.
>> 
>> Sinanju...  The books are very silly, and alot of fun.  The guy who played
>> Chiun in the movie was Joel Grey, better known as the MC in Cabaret, or as
>> Erin "Dirty Dancing" Grey's dad.  I think they picked him because Chiun's
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Are you sure this is the same guy?
>
 
Right guy, wrong first name for the daughter.  I think I needed sleep badly
when I posted....  Her name is Jennifer Grey.  I don't even know if there
>is< an Erin Grey...  Shimata.

bill
-- 
 *         Bill Cavanaugh       bleys@wisdom.bubble.org          *
XY + XX = :-)
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Is chi/ ki real?
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:09:42 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <28616@dog.ee.lbl.gov> TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan) writes:
>
>  [On yet another query about chi.]
>
>
>I think you're referring to telekinesis.  While there have been
>more grandiose claims, I thought there were hardly any claims of
>telekinesis anymore (maybe too easy to disprove?).

If I recall correctly, there remains one reputable researcher with
positive (though very modest) claims about PK. (Unforftunately,
I've forgotten the fellow's name. I could probably dig it up, but
it would involve some searching; I don't follow this stuff closely).

The substabce of the claim appears to be that the guy has a mechanical
apparatus that produces the equivalent of coin tosses in huge numbers,
and that his experiments purportedly show that observers can
consistently cause the distributions of results to vary ever so
slightly from the predicted distribution. (We are talking about
variations a couple of miles down the road on the right side
of the decimal place, here, but allegedly consistent ones).

So far nobody else wants to spen the not inconsiderable money to
build another such machine to test a feeble effect that few
researchers believe in anyway.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU
Subject: faq?
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:15:13 GMT

 
my experience with the network is limited. Can somebody tell me
how to access the martial-arts faq? Please email any answers.
 
r3tlm@vm1.cc.uakron.edu
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: AHH!  The meaning of "hapkido" is....
Date: 24 Jan 93 06:16:55 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino

>hap = coordination/focus/concentration
>ki = energy (you know..)
>do = way/style

Well, the accounts vary, but one account has the founder of Hapkido (Choi,
Yong Sool) defining Hap as meaning "total martial arts, different martial
arts combined".  This because Choi considered Hapkido to be a combination of
a refined (obviously debatable) Ju-Jitsu and Taekyun.

Ray
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fights and blackbelt confidence
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:52:28 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

dude@losers.hacktic.nl (Dude) writes:

>Anyway, what I was trying to say is that trained MA's stay calm in this sort
>situations. So you don't have to 'use' your art physically (eg punching) to
>be able to say 'I have experienced some very positive results because of my
>training'.

     True. A few times I've stepped into situations where there was a
potential for violence and tried to defuse it. I had the confidence
that, should I be unsuccessful, I could still defend myself.

     All too often, people get away with hurting others because
bystanders don't want to get involved at all. No one is willing
to say, "Put the knife down and let's talk about this." Because 
martial artists have  to plan for such situations, and because we
have the skills to deal with the situation if things get rough, I
think we are more likely to take action.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
      "There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX.
      We don't believe this to be a coincidence."
      -- Jeremy S. Anderson
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: What/Where is Sinawali?
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:04:45 GMT

youngjo@yang.earlham.edu writes:
>Does anybody know what Sinawali(sp?) is?
>I've heard it's a brazilian martial art, and I think it
>might be the style used in the movie "The Mighty Quinn".

I thought "sinawali" meant weaving in one of the Filipino 
dialects.  The sinawali we do in my escrima class involves a 
continuous striking motion done with double sticks.  I guess you 
could say the interlocking patterns described by the sticks as 
they strike and chamber resembles weaving.

>Apparently, it uses a lot of spinning techniques from the ground, and
>looks like a cross between northern-style kung fu and breakdancing.

This sounds like Capoeira.

>Does anyone practice it, or know where it's taught?  It looks like
>it could be a great complement to "hard" style linear arts.
>
>Thanks!
>John Young
>YOUNGJO@yang.earlham.edu


--
Richard A. Drury                    National Institutes of Health
drury@helix.nih.gov                 31/B3C27, Bethesda, MD, USA
From: actize@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: More European History
Date: 22 Jan 93 07:37:36 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

From the years 1200 until the present day England, and by that I mean the 
descendants of the followers William the Conquerer, the Celts he conquered on 
what we know as the British Isles, the Celts he didn't conquer on the British 
Isles [those holdouts in Scotland, Ireland, and Wales, who still exists today],
all former and current members of the British Commonwealth [including U.S.A.,
Austrailia, Canada, New Zealand] have had a profound effect on the world as we 
know it.

There was a great rivalry between the Kingdoms of Spain & England until about 
1800 when Spain fell on bad times.  I think I'll throw in something about MA 
here, with some sort of double meaning:

People in Spain were very good swordsman.  Toledo steel made the finest swords.
We can see some remnants of this art today in Bull-Fighting.  They were also 
very good horseman.  Both they & England colonized America.  The problem the 
Spaniards had was that the British were better sailors.  They defeated the 
Armada of King Phillipe of Spain in _____ (fill in the missing year, I forgot 
it).  The story goes that there was a huge storm, an accident of nature, that 
severly crippled the Spaniard fleet when they attacked Britain.  This may be 
exagerrated in the history books, I don't know.

Anyway, the plain fact is the British were incomparable on the Sea.  As England
became weaker, the U.S. became prominent.  It's kind of like a little brother 
growing up and taking care of the big brother.  I realize that this is a gross 
simplification of U.S.-Britain relations, and yet, I find a hidden MA meaning 
in this.  Fill in the hidden meaning: ______________________________  .
From: ftit@enthymeme.engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: difference between quarterstaff and jo?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 20:23:34 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: enthymeme.engin.umich.edu
Originator: ftit@enthymeme.engin.umich.edu


In article <1993Jan21.173301.2106@bnr.ca>, mholden@bcarh786.bnr.ca (Mark Holden) writes:
|In article <C1697x.35r@apollo.hp.com>, stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave) writes:|> In article <C1681q.Ln6@math.uwaterloo.ca>, gamiddle@math.uwaterloo.ca
|
|This brought something to mind (for you Star Trek fans out there). There
|was one episode of the "Next Generation" where Riker and his father 
|get into a match of "Ambo Jitsu" (spelling?),

Right, from the Spanish "ambos," meaning that, um, both people are
fighting and emphasising the no-cheap-shots-allowed  philosophy of the
art.

|                                              which his father claimed as the
|ultimate of the martial arts. They used some futuristic bo or something
|(blinking lights, made low humming sounds as it was swung, etc), and their 
|eyes were shielded. 
|
|Does this art have any existence, or is it just some futuristic decendent
|of current art forms (ie., jo-jitsu)?
|

Of course.  It's derived from Giant-Q-Tip-Wrestling as practiced on the
American Galdiators (tm) show.

Disclaimer: I've only seem American Gladiators once, for the laughs, at
  a friend's house, for the laughs, OK?

|Mark

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ftit@engin.umich.edu   |   "... a stainless steel rat in the       |
|    (Sergej Roytman)     |  ferroconcrete wainscoting of Internet"   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Say no to four-line .sigs.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: afsar@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Haji Firoz)
Subject: Re: Haji (was  Re: Karate Kata question: tekki series)
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 21:49:02 GMT

bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb) writes:
: 
: I study in Dallas, under a Dr. Alex Tong.
: He and I in turn study under H. Nishiyama.
: 
: I also try to attend other ranking Karate-ka's  seminars
: whenever I get the chance.  IE.. when they are near Dallas
: or if I am passing thru the cities they teach.
: Exam.  L. Sill, R. Graves, R. Fusaro, T. Mikami, M. Mori ... ect.
: 

Great. You have had very good instructors. I have trained/studied under
Mr. Okazaki, Nishiyama, Mori, Fusaro, Harramatoo and they are very good
instructors in different areas.
In my opinion and work out I have learned: 
the basics, Kata and sparring from Mr. Okazaki,
the sparring(mental, feelings) from Mr. Nishiyama,
The basics and Kata from Mr. Mori.
The Katas from Mr. Fusaro (I like his kicks,side kick).
The sparring(full contact and no mercy) from Mr. Harramatoo.

They are all fun.

Haji
From: d90eridy@odalix.ida.liu.se (Erik Dyrelius)
Subject: Re: difference between quarterstaff and jo?
Organization: CIS Dept, Univ of Linkoping, Sweden
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 00:46:13 GMT

stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave) writes:


>A quarterstaff is typically about 6 feet long whereas a jo is
>about 4.5 feet long.  The bo, however is about the same size as
>a quarterstaff.

I just measures my jo and it is only 50"=4.2 feet. I think (if I remember
correctly) that the idea was that it should be a bit longer than the
katana which it was designed to be used against and since a bokto (bokken)
is about 40" that fits. (I havent got a katana to compare with)

	/Erik


--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| dyrelius@robin.lysator.liu.se            (d90eridy@und.ida.liu.se) |
|                                                                    |
|   Listen to me just hear me out, if I could have your attention;   |
|            just quieten down for a voice in the crowd.             |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fighting against animals?
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:18:48 GMT
Reply-To: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <1993Jan26.161643.24131@midway.uchicago.edu> wag5@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>	If you fight a single dog just kick it in the head or whatever.

Right. Let's try this on Mr. 110 Pound Rotweiller, K?

David Poore
poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu