HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marshall@tfh.enet.dec.com (Hunting the Snark)
Subject: Re: Exam mode in version J (var lock?)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 06:48:34 GMT


In article <1993Jan23.192650.21609@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...
>In article <VgBPXB15w165w@kf8nh.wariat.org> kf8nh@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) writes:
>>kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad) writes:
>>> In article <1993Jan19.193729.6825@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) 
>>> >In article <1993Jan16.125606.1940@doug.cae.wisc.edu> kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (J
>>> >>Actually, current fries you, regardless of whether it's lightning or RF.
>>> >Current is always the -dependant- variable, it is a result, not a cause. 
>>> 
>>> Current isn't a cause of frying you?  Current is a _result_ of frying you?
>>> I think not. :-)  Just kidding... I know you mean that current is the
>>> result of lightning.
>>
>>Actually, he and I both blew it.  Voltage is the result of current across a
>>resistance, not vice versa.  
> 
>I have a battery. I measure the voltage with a balanced bridge, so essentially
>no current flows. How is this possible since voltage is a result? In fact,
>how are batteries possible? 


This is ridiculous. Have either of you taken an electronics course? Ever hear
of current sources, voltage sources, and Thevenin equivalents? whether voltage
or current is the depedant variable depends on what kind of source you have.
Also, most good lab supplies can act as either a voltage source or a current 
source depending on which you limit first and what the load is. Arc welders are
a good example of a current source. 


>>superconductivity would have no use because you get a very, very low voltage
>>for even a high current.
> 
>Said current will never flow without some applied voltage.

wrong. current can be produced by a magnetic field.


>I was once working on a radio tower in the desert. I guess that I was
>sweating more that I was aware. I was shocked by a 60V source, which
>I had handled without danger for several years. The point is that the
>-other- variable, skin resistance, had changed. Current is a result of
>applied volatge across a resistance. Skin resistance is quite variable.

Only when dealing with a voltage source. Do the same trick with a current 
source (such as an arc welder) and the voltage across your body will be a
function of your skin resistance.


Steve Marshall
From: getz@dvinci.USask.Ca (Robin Getz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: RAM Cards
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:18:18 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: dvinci.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


After Joe Horn posted a note that I made about Smith Corrona RAM cards into
his goodies disk I have been recieving mail asking me about what I had
done.  Here is a note about the RAM cards, by Allan Petersen, describing
in much more detail what I have done.

------------------------------------

From en.ecn.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!samsung!think.com!mintaka!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!dkuug!dde!dde!ap 20 Feb 91 09:55:47 GMT
From: mengwong@pobox.upenn.edu (Meng Weng Wong)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: HP48 + modem, VT100 emu
Summary: trying to get a modem to work with the HP
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:31:27 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I just got a pocket modem today.  It plugs into the serial port with
the help of a null modem converter, and runs on "line power." 
Does this mean it gets power off the phone line, or off the serial port?

I believe term2.bg is a VT52 emulator.  Has a vt100 emulator been written?

The idea is to connect to the Internet through the 48, via a modem.

Ideas?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad)
Subject: Re: Taking exams?
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 23 Jan 93 14:43:59 CST

In article <hdev.727811494@dutiag> hdev@dutiag.tudelft.nl (Hans de Vreught) writes:
>
>Actually over here (and many other countries as well) we only have trial by
>judge, not by jury. A jury is more likely to disbelieve the cheaters if they
>say they didn't cheat regardless if they did or did not cheat. So the jury is
>unlawfully biased against the cheaters. In a trial by judge the judge is
>impartial (well in theory). He has no choice but to presume that the cheaters
>are innocent (although he knows they are guilty as hell).

Assuming a standard professor/student relationship, a professor has
absolutely no motive to falsely accuse a student of cheating.  Students have
obvious motives _to_ cheat.  (If if there is a screwy professor/student
relationship, such as a male professor being dumped by a female student he
was dating, then this should come up in court.)  Since people are innocent
until proven guilty in most civilized parts of the world, I guess I'd have
to agree that an impartial judge should find the accused student innocent.

Jurors in this country are legally supposed to be impartial, and either the
defendent or the plaintiff (or their attorneys, etc.) can kick out jurors
that they feel aren't.  Given the nation-wide oh-so-biased news we get on
TV every night, getting truly impartial jurors is darn difficult.

I still think professor's should have the right to force students to re-take an
exam on the same material.  (After all, if you did so well once, you can
pull it off again, right?  And this time you might even study...)  Too bad
it's illegal in your country.  I wonder if it is here...?

						---Joel Kolstad
From: Timm_Ganske@f.maus.de (Timm Ganske)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: Mac linking with an HP48sx
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 20:14:00 GMT
Organization: MausNet (Mitglied im IN e.V.)
X-Gateway: MausGate/News 1.15A/hb

>it generates a document file which can not be executed (natrually)

It still has the MacBinary-Header. Pack it with Lharc, then transfer it to the
Mac and unpack it. Lharc removes the MacBinary-Header.

Bye,
 Timm [No, I ain't got a Mac! Comments please via email]
From: cj531@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ali Momeni)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Rev. J difference, STRANGE!
Date: 23 Jan 1993 21:43:50 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Yesterday, I evaluated this sum on an E and a J: 5*x^2*ln(x)/sin(x) as x
goes from 1 to 100.  I got two very diffenrent answeres (-1700ish and
19000ish).  
What's goin' on?

ali.  momeni@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: hdev@dutiag.tudelft.nl (Hans de Vreught)
Subject: Re: HP48S vs. HP48SX
Organization: Delft University of Technology
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:08:08 GMT

tslopez@mcs.Drexel.edu writes:

>>>>>> On 21 Jan 93 23:25:41 GMT, heavy-metal@vnet.ibm.com said:



>>> No difference, just two slots, a removable cover and $100.

>>> BTW I have a 48s and I am quite happy with it.  I too am too poor     e SX,
>>> but with my computer I have a 48 with a 50 meg hard drive.
>>> Top that.


>:> I have an SX with a 128K, a 512K and with my computer I have an extra
>:> 16Meg, a 160Meg hard drive and a 1Gb hard drive. Did I top ya? Sorry,
>:> but I had to . . .

>Nothing personal, but I have to agree. If you're going to spend the $150 for
>an HP why not go the extra $90 or so and get something with a future. 32k
>is simply not enough for something with the power of a 48s. I am glad I have
>my 128k card and plan on getting a 512k card sometime soon. And that's with
>also having it linked to my Mac with over 2 gigs of storage. (Though it's
>not all dedicated to the HP ;)

Nothing personal, but if an S suit your means, why spending the extra money?
I have an S and a PC with a large disk (and an even better machine at my
work). If I occassionally want to have another program to tun, I remove some
directory (I've a mirror on my PC) and down load the program I want to run. It
works fine for me. 32K is enough for me.

Maybe, you can all agree with me on this one: owning a PC is a necessary
condition if your planning to buy an S. BTW, an SX cost $125 more than an S
over here.
--
Hans de Vreught                          | John von Neumann:
hdev@dutiba.twi.tudelft.nl               | Young man, in mathematics
Delft University of Technology (TWI-ThI) | you don't understand things,
The Netherlands                          | you just get used to them.
From: randyd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Randall Elton Ding)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: swap polar arguments in 3d vector
Date: 24 Jan 1993 08:39:21 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: randyd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

My textbook for my Electromagnetic Fields class swaps theta and phi in
all polar vectors for spherical cooridinates.

Is there a way to make the 48 display 3d polar vectors with these two angles
swapped (and input too)?

I could not find a flag option for this.

Thanks, Randy.    randyd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: wild9118@nova (Mark J. Wilder)
Subject: Re: HP48S vs. HP48SX
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:45:27 GMT

woodhams@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Michael Woodhams) writes:
: 
: It's not an extra $90. By the time you've bought a 128K card to put in
: that expensive slot, you've doubled the cost of the calculator. Is it
: worth it to you to pay twice as much to increase the memory by 5 times?
: 

Yes.  Purging and Downloading gets QUITE tedious.

--
Mark J. Wilder
==============
wild9118@nova.gmi.edu
GMI Engineering and Management Institute
Flint, Michigan
===============
"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them
 down?   We would be if they screamed all the time for no good reason."
				-"Deep Thoughts"
				  by Jack Handey
From: janders1@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: RE: Mac linking with an HP48sx
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:19:14 GMT
Organization: Clark University

> Make that "The Mac has essentially nothing in terms of development for
> the HP48.

If you have a Mac and a HP48, you need some flavor of the SoftPC family.  I
use SoftAT and it works just fine (although *very* slowly on my cx).

Jesse
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: Programmers Calculator?
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
	<74270@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan24.141419.6664@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
	<74286@cup.portal.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 01:28:06 GMT

One thing that would be handy in a programmers calculator would be
the ability to display and do arithmetic with IEEE floating point
numbers (i.e. convert them to and from bit patterns, and to and from
the calculator's floating point format).  Anyone working on these
packages, please take note.
From: phudl@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr S J Liddicott)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re:  Micro waves and fat and water
Date: 25 Jan 1993 20:53:56 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: emmental.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <1993Jan25.170009.6693@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
 >In article <1993Jan23.181227.19615@ugle.unit.no> eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) writes:
 >>In article <1993Jan23.030545.24088@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
 >> > In article <1993Jan19.164320.14325@doug.cae.wisc.edu> kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad) writes:
 >> > >use a different frequency than radar dishes, though you're quite right that
 >> > >both are technically microwaves.  (Microwave ovens are tuned to create the
 >> > >greatest loss tangent in water.)
 >> > Really, then why do fats heat so much faster?
 >>Specific heat capacity?  More energy required per unit mass to heat by one 
 >>degree (pick your unit)?  Think about it... :)
 >No need to think about it. The claim was made that microwaves are tuned to heat
 >-water-. This is not true. This was the point which I was attempting to address,
 >unsuccessfully it would seem.

I think they are tuned to get the greatest heat transfer to water.
*Not* so that water will be heated better than anything else.

The fact that the same frequency also heats fats well is by the by;
no doubt a frequency could be picked which wouldn't heat fats much, but
than as far as the water goes, it wouldn't be the best.


-- 
*----------*-------------------------------------------------------------*
| Sam   Jam|"Never underestimate the importance of a cheap laugh"-       |
| Liddicott| phudl@csv.warwick.ac.uk                     Plucky Duck TTA |
*------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: jgreff@plains.NoDak.edu (Jason Greff)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: Volts vs. amps
Date: 26 Jan 93 05:40:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: ns1.C1G52r.HK2
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <1k2150INN3ct@coral.bucknell.edu> rose@bucknell.edu (philip rose `94) writes:
>I'm sorry, but this is not the truth.  It is neither voltage or current
>alone that kills.  Power kills.  Power is the product of voltage and current.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Phil Rose
>rose@coral.bucknell.edu
Never heard that one before.  Are you speaking from experience?  I've got
training as a generator mechanic and I am an electrical engineering
student specializing in power.  Everyone I've ever talked to says current
is the killer.  Specifically the minimum is 100 milliamps, it may take
more depending on the situation.

From what I've heard the voltage is what makes it hurt, but the current
does you in.  Electric fences have high voltages but low current.  This
product results in so much power.  If you increased current while
decreasing voltage so that the power remained constant, my bet is you
could find a high enough current to kill.

-- 
Jason Greff          North Dakota State University - Fargo, North Dakota

"It's better to remain quiet and be | "It's hard to be an individual while
 thought a fool than to speak and   |  you are busy trying to conform." --Me
 remove all doubt." -- Lincoln      |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: foxworth@egr.msu.EDU (David Foxworth)
Subject: Eigenvectors
Organization: Michigan State University, College of Engineering
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:28:33 GMT


Subject says it all.

I tried using the one at U. Wilmington, but it is for real symmetric 
matricies. Anybody have (or know where to get) a routine to calculate
eigenvectors or a arbitrary matrix?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Dave
From: akcs.jwtrav@hpcvbbs.cv.hp.com (John Wettroth)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: IR output format ?
Date: 16 Jan 93 12:40:02 GMT

The IR from the 42 is identical to the 48 IR printer mode.  There was a
little adapter made mainly for the 28 a few years ago that along with a
pc could decode the stuff. (RUSH systems- 'Hook-Up').  I've seen them on
the board in classifies at Corvallis- ususally around $50.  If you want
all the grisley details of the printer IR format, send me a self addresed
stamped envelope and I'll send it along.  My company builds a little data
acquistion system that goes over the IR for the 48.  The 48 actually
supports two IR formats- calc to calc and printer- they are very very
different.  The printer uses a 32 khz carrier.  If you can't see the
carrier, your receiver sensor is probably too slow.  The calc to calc
link has no carrier.
Good luck.
John Wettroth
Travtech Electronic Instrumention (ADCM-48 Controller Manuf.)
10959 Barbados Way
San Diego, CA 92126
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: bmury@engr.UVic.CA (Brian  Mury)
Subject: Re: Disabling sound
Reply-To: bmury@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 21:21:51 GMT

The last item in the modes menu (left shift-CST) toggles the beep.
From: calvin@lysator.liu.se (Chris Maluszynski)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Shipping a HP to Sweden $50?!
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:18:53 GMT
Organization: Lysator ACS at Linkoping University

I am going to buy a 48sx soon.  Recently I talked with some guy at EduCalc
about getting it shipped here to Sweden.  He told (wrote actually) me that it
would cost me almost $50.  That is for a HP48sx, a case and a CMT 128K card.
He mentioned something about this being called "UPS Blue".  I'm not sure what
that means but it seems pretty damn expensive to me.  I guess that is air mail.
Anyway, I'm wondering if there is any cheaper way to get the HP shipped here.
Does anyone know?

Reply by email please.

	-Chris
--
	      
	      ------------------------------------------------
	      If you got the feeling - jump across the ceiling.
	      ------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad)
Subject: Lightning
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 24 Jan 93 12:00:17 CST

This is ridiculously off the topic of this newsgroup, but it's not at all
argumentative, so some people might find it interesting anyway.  Here's a
little information about lightning:

-- Lightning hits in Earth 50 to 100 times a second, being produced by the
1900 thunderstorms now raging around the world.  (Averages here, of
course).

-- Lightning strokes may be several miles long but only as wide as a
finger.  Therefore, a human being struck looks almost identical to a human
not being in the "circuit" at all. :-)

-- Nearly 100 people are killed, and 250 are injured every year in the U.S.
This is more than the combined total for tornadoes and hurricanes.

-- The entire "bolt" of lightning lasts about a half second carrying an average
of 30,000 amps.  (Fun exercise for the reader: Assuming a simple geometric
distribution of the lightning charge, calculate how much energy is carried
by the bolt.)

-- The air around the bolt may heat to 33,000 deg. C (60,000 deg. F).

Nasty stuff, but I think that lightning storms are quite beautiful to
watch.  Just make sure that is doesn't strike _you_...

The above information all comes from that 2nd rate source of science
information, "Popular Science," February 1993.

						---Joel Kolstad
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: kevin@rodin.wustl.edu (Kevin Ruland)
Subject: How does sysRPL GOTO work?
Organization: Center for Optimization and Semantic Control, Washington University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:07:40 GMT

I found this as one of the key assignments made by StringWriter v3

PTR 40D93
ROMPTR 517 0 (EDIT) % in StringWriter
GOTO
PTR 3A654

Does the GOTO do what I think it does - jump execution to the address
pointed to after it?

Kevin Ruland
kevin@rodin.wusstl.edu
From: weaverb@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Brian Weaver)
Subject: Re: My HP got SOAKED!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 07:44:45 GMT

das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:

>Oh no, it flooded like crazy down here in southern Louisiana, USA, and
>my HP got soaked when my car was stranded in a flooded area.

>I've dries it all I can, I thought I should wait until it was TOTALLY
>dry before I tried .... turning it on.  How long should I wait?  Is there hope
>my beloved HP48SX will still work?!

>Please reply quicky,

>_Dan
>.
   
 I dont see why it wouldn't work so long as ALL the water is out of it. 
I would probably take it apart some and take a very low heat hair dryer
to it. Just make sure all the water is out of it before you fire it up.
Also, can you see any obvious water damage to it?

-- 
Brian Weaver                      University of Colorado at Boulder
weaverb@boulder.Colorado.EDU      (internet)
KD6CFA@N0ARY.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA     (packet radio)
From: 2hwbtalk@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: Disabling beep
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:32:45 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


Regarding how to disable the infernal beep on the HP.  On my 28S I had to set
flag number 51.  Do this by typing 51 SF.  I assume that the flags are more or
less identical between the 28 and 48.  You can also look up Flags in the index
of your owner manual.  Somewhere you should have a list of all of the flags and
what they do.  Another nice one (I can't remember the number off hand) sets the
HP to automatically give you 3.14159265... when you enter the pi symbol.
From: mheiskan@hut.fi (Mika Heiskanen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: What is a META ???
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:09:35 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Distribution: inet
Reply-To: mheiskan@vipunen.hut.fi
NNTP-Posting-Host: lk-hp-5.hut.fi
In-reply-to: ramos@engr.LaTech.edu's message of 28 Jan 1993 03:25:27 GMT


In article <1k7jn7INNmev@aurora.engr.LaTech.edu> ramos@engr.LaTech.edu (Alex Ramos) writes:

>The file entries.all (a new version recently on seq.uncwil.edu) lists
>several entry points to handle "meta objects".
>However, RPLMAN.DOC doesn't even mention them. I don't have a clue what
>they are.

Oops, I seem to have assumed the explanation was somewhere.

A meta object is what you get when you explode a composite object.

Example: { %1 %2 } <INNERCOMP> --> %1 %2 TWO
	 '1+2'	   <INNERCOMP> --> %1 %2 + THREE

The stack scheme ( Meta1 Ob Meta2 ) could thus mean for example

5: %1	\
4: %2	  Meta1
3: TWO 	/
2: %0	- Ob
1: ZERO	- Meta2 (Empty)

The stack scheme for top&

	( Meta1 Meta2 --> Meta1&Meta2 )

means that the meta objects have been combined just be adding their 'length
fields' e.g the binary numbers together.

And for addt+

	( Meta --> Meta&+ )

means that '+' has been added to the meta object by pushing '+' to stack level
2 and by incrementing the count.

( Thus :: top& addt+ ; would be a very simple adding routine )

In general handling meta objects is faster since building & exploding
composites is time expensive. All low level symbolics handling is done via
meta objects.

--
--> mheiskan@vipunen.hut.fi
From: ftg0673@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Grevelle)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: Volts vs. amps
Date: 28 Jan 1993 00:55:36 -0600
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu

In article <C1DB0J.G7u@ns1.nodak.edu>, jgreff@plains.NoDak.edu (Jason Greff)
writes:
> I'm sure you've all heard that it's the amps that kill you, not the volts.
> That's the truth.  It takes as little as .1 Amps, regardless of voltage. 

In article <1k2150INN3ct@coral.bucknell.edu> rose@bucknell.edu (philip rose`94)
writes:
>I'm sorry, but this is not the truth.  It is neither voltage or current
>alone that kills.  Power kills.  Power is the product of voltage and current.

You should be sorry Philip Rose '94, because you are grossly misinformed,
Power is the energy per unit time (p=dw/dt) which as you pointed out is
simply the product of the current in an element and the voltage drop across
that element.  But it's not the stupid power that will kill you, nor is
it the voltage because voltage is simply the potential for current to flow.
Its the actual current that flows through your body that kills, or more
specifically the rate of charge flow (i=dq/dt).  What sort of institution
are you attending?  Perhaps you should consider a different major!?!

Rick Grevelle
ftg0673@tamsun.tamu.edu


Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: wild9118@nova (Mark J. Wilder)
Subject: Re: Access to seq.uncwil.edu
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:52:38 GMT

maward@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu writes:
: Can anyone give me any information on how to connect to seq.uncwil.edu?  I am
: able to connect to the address with Telnet but when it gives the logon: prompt
: and password: prompts, I am stuck.  I am also new to this stuff (3 days now) but
: that shouldn't hinder me too badly (I don't think)
: 
: Thanks

You have to ftp to seq.uncwil.edu, not telnet.  It'll ask you for a login 
and you should enter 'anonymous' and give your e-mail address for a password.

You're welcome.
--
Mark J. Wilder
==============
wild9118@nova.gmi.edu
GMI Engineering and Management Institute
Flint, Michigan
===============
"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them
 down?   We would be if they screamed all the time for no good reason."
				-"Deep Thoughts"
				  by Jack Handey
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48