From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celts-Christianity-Catholicism
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:02:06 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: wb9tow@bluegrass.ecn.purdue.edu (Steven A Marquie)
>        As a Wiccan, I practice certain Celtic religious beliefs that predate
>catholicism by several hundred years.  In particular tramsmigration.
>(Matthew being well read as you are I am certain you are aware for what it
>stands)

The evidence that the Celts believed in some sort of
reincarnation is extremely small, and boils down to a few lines
in the writings of Julius Caesar. And, as I said "Wicca" is an
Anglo-Saxon word, not a Celtic word. It was most definitely not
the word used by any Celtic group to describe its religious
beliefs.

>        Certain dieties from Celtic religion were used by the catholics in
>order to gain support "quietly" from the Celts.

The word is "deity" not "diety", though it seems to be spelt so
often this latter way by "wiccans" "New-Agers" etc, that I
suppose they think it's correct. As I said in an earlier
message, this might indicate that if you truly want to catch
hold of your pagan heritage you might do better to become a
Catholic than to engage in fantasies which have very little
basis in reality.

>        And lastly, there were comments about the transition of Celtica to
>christianity, It was not peacful.  Have you  ever heard of the inquisition??

Yes, I have heard of the Inquistion. It was started in the 13th
century to counter the Cathar heresy in souther France. I
cannot see what relation this bears with the conversion of
Ireland to Christianity some 800 years earlier.

>and This "asimilation" started before Pope Gregory IX.  Just because Ireland
>was'nt invaded by hords of conquoring catholics, it was done shrewdly. (Gee,
>sounds like a Borg asimilation!) (Star Trek, Matthew)

There is very little evidence how it was done. (Sorry, I gave
up watching Star Trek around the age of 12, so your reference
means nothing to me). From what references we have, it seems
that Patrick turned up, preached, and within a few years
everyone was Christian, There is no evidence at all that
Patrick was accompanied by armies. That is why I suggested that
there was some sort of crisis in paganism at the time, or
perhaps it was just revulsion at the human sacrifices (also
given prominence in Caesar's writings - I don't see how you can
take the reincarnation but reject the human sacrifices), and
the cult of the severed head (now, here, if anything, is what
ancient Celtic religion was all about, it is attested to by
myths, writings, and archeological evidence).

>books and ideas. But, this is my religion and it works for me, let alone
>feels propper.  I have been practicing it for 17 years and DONT need anyone
>to change

Well, fine. However, it would be more intellectually honest to
say that you are involved in a made-up religion that is
inspired by some aspects of what Celtic religion might have
been like, than to say you are actually practising ancient
Celtic paganism.

>If we were livign a true Celtic life, Women would have true rights, and noone
>would care who you slept with last night.

Hmm, from my recall of Irish myths and legends, there is not
much about feminism in them, and a Celtic warrior hero might be
just a little upset if you slept with his wife.

Matthew Huntbach