HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kmeyers@nyx.cs.du.edu (Karl F. Meyers)
Subject: Re: Quicksilver virus on furry Muck
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: virus, yozduk, scum scum scum die die die.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 23:54:41 GMT

I've more or less gotten all the info on this virus that was put upon
FurryMUCK on New Year's Eve.  It's a good thing I wasn't on that night,
not that it would have affected me anyway (for your information, gentle-
men [and I use that term loosely], I am an excellent programmer, and
catching bugs is one of my specialties.)

It's amazing how juvenile some people are in this world, that they have
to draw attention to themselves in a manner like this.  I personally
know enough about many of the furries mentioned in that log (which, in
itself, is a violation of privacy - but then, assholes like these two
have no sence ofdecency, do they?), and none of them are as sex-crazed
as you seem to think they are.

For your information, Furry is where people get together to talk, have
fun, and have a chance to get away from the rigors of everyday life.
Most of these people probably have very successful lives and loves
outside of Furry.  It's too bad you guys (and you know who you are)
don't seem to have a real life, conisdering the time you spend screwing
around with systems that you'd be better off staying off of.

Oh, and I hope the system admin at hawkwind doesn't get your e-mail 
addresses.  Losing your telnet access is not a nice way to start your
year.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl F. Meyers              /               Disclaimer :            / 
kmeyer@unf6.cis.unf.edu     /    Ridicule is the burden of genius.  / 
kmeyers@nyx.cs.du.edu       /////////////////////////////////////////
GEnie : K.MEYERS2           / Babs : Well, isn't that conveeenient? /
University of North Florida /       --> Stay Tiny Tooned! <--       /
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen)
Subject: User Rights Camps
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:08:21 GMT

We seem to have some distinct factions on this big hullabaloo, some of which 
will never reconcile totally.
     1: Wizzes against rights and players for rights for selfish reasons.
     2: Believers in universal rights regardless of their MU* position
     3: Believers in no rights whatsoever regardless of their MU* position
     4: Uncertain people looking for middle ground and not finding it.
Of course, there is the temptation to lump most of whoever disagrees with you 
into group 1 and ignore them, since there seems to be a distinct pro-rights 
stance from non-wizzes and anti-rights from wizzes who would have to implement 
any kind of protection guaranteed.
     There is also one other division that seems to have cropped up in the log:
New Wizzes For Rights versus Veteran Admins Totally Opposed.  It was there 
before, obviously, but was pointed up in the logs (by Xibo?  I'm not mucking 
thru that log again to check).
     Everyone keep in mind, regardless of your faction, that eventually some 
sort of laws will be passed to regulate muds.  And if we have our own set of 
guidelines already prepared we are more likely to have those passed into law, 
or even have the law stalled for a while by our self-policing.  Remember tha 
Comics Code.  It kept laws from being passed by the government during a 
restrictive period, so that it would be easier to come out of the restrictions 
when things loosened up.  It is quite probable that there will be a crackdown 
on BBSes and muds in the neat future, and those that will not police 
themselves will be policed by the government, which has little sense of humor.
     So, if you don't want any restrictions now, don't whine when the axe
falls.  It may not fall soon, but it will fall, and those who wore the stiff 
collars for a few years in anticipation may find that although they may be a 
bit uncomfortable they deflect axe blades nicely.
     Dave Van Domelen, @set me=!gloom_and_doom
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: myocom@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Mark 'Slimy Leeber' Yocom)
Subject: Seattle TIM/Trek Party! Woo!
Organization: Western Washington University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 04:17:57 GMT

             Greater Seattle Area TIM/Trek Par-tay Info

	On February 27th, a Great Thing shall come to pass.  For the first
time ever on the West Coast (the *real* coast...;) ), there will be an
official TrekMuse/TinyTIM Get Together And Boogie Down Par-tay.  It's going
to be a Great Moment In History, so you definitely don't want to miss it!

	It won't be held in Seattle proper, but rather at a cabin on Whidbey
Island (directions will be available Real Soon Now).  I encourage you all to
RSVP ASAP to the address listed above, as Jade and Kang (your self-appointed
Entertainment Chairs) are planning a special event.  Six people out of those
that RSVP will be selected to take part in this event and the rest of you will
be forced to sit there and watch (but I assure you it's almost as much fun to
watch).  Now how can you refuse an offer like that, eh?  For more information
about the party, just reply to this post, and I'll see what I can do about
answering some questions.

--Mark (Kang@TrekMuse & Kang@TinyTIM)
 
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: russ@math.okstate.edu (R. Nomad)
Subject: Re: Philosophising (was Re: Ego Tripping)
Organization: Aggie? What precisely is an Aggie?
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:05:52 GMT

In <1993Jan12.180411.21254@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> coram@ed.ecn.purdue.edu (Chaosmage) writes:

>I have no idea either.  And that extends to people laughing at ANY group of
>other people.  For anyone who thinks it is funny: GROW UP!  Being generally
>amused by how silly humans can be is one thing, as long as you include your-
>self, and are not cruel about it.  But trying to make one group look inferior
>and the butt of all your jokes is stupid and immature.

If there's a person who's posted here that I haven't laughed at, I'm stunned.

-Random
I laugh at myself constantly for being drawn into these 'debates'

-- 
---------------------===Comedy!  Sudden, violent comedy!===--------------------
Russ Smith -- russ@math.okstate.edu  |  "This is the Nineties, Bubba, and
  Don Random of the "Random Gang"    |   there is no such thing as Paranoia.
What a pinhead! Does he not fear us? |   It's all true." -- Hunter S Thompson
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: cooljohn@leland.Stanford.EDU ( Magdaleno)
Subject: TinyMUSH Problem
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 21:48:50 GMT

Wait... before you click "Next unread" in xrn, I have a slight
problem.

I've compiled a TinyMUSH server (I believe version 1.17.01?) and
everything went smoothly. Starting up with the minimal data-
base (i.e. netmud minimal.db.Z out &) was no problem either. After
creating a few rooms and a couple of machines I decided to @shutdown
for a moment... but now I can't load up the database anymore...
here's a transcription of what happens:

> netmush out.Z outfile.Z &
[1] 2274
> LOADING: out.Z
READING...
ERROR: Bad character 3 on object 0
ERROR: bad attribute list object 0
ERROR LOADING
ERROR: Couldn't load out.Z! Exiting.

[1]    Exit 2                 netmush out.Z outfile.Z

Now I have in no way physically changed the database myself (I mean
I added objects sure, but I let the mush server do all the db writing)

So, I decided to do a little test:

(1) I re-loaded the minimal.db.Z wiht netmush minimal.db.Z out.Z & [no problems]
(2) I connected normally as the pre-defined wizard [no problems]
(3) Immediately after I was put into Room #0 I did @shutdown [no probs]
(4) Now out.Z should be exactly like minimal.db.Z; I made no objects, no
    new players, nor anything else that would change that database.
(5) I tried to netmush out.Z outtest.Z &  [same errors as above]

What gives? Does anyone know what's going on here? Please respond as
soon as possible.

Thanks in advance.

J Magdaleno, cooljohn@leland.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.misc
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:40:06 GMT

In article <XIBO.93Jan11162203@fido.fido.econ.arizona.edu> xibo@fido.econ.arizona.edu (Mr. Coates) writes:
>A player can't go somewhere, say "Admin X violated my rights" and
>expect any justice.

Of course, but again that doesn't mean players don't _have_ rights, it just
means that they can't _do_ anything about it if they're violated.
--
"Am I still reading rec.games.mud?  In MY day, flames were much better than
that.  We didn't HAVE those nansie-pansie four letter words to swing around,
we dug up hard FACTS when we flamed, AND WE LIKED IT!"
	-- Doran, on rec.games.mud

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)


Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.misc
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:27:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.124949.994@uoft02.utoledo.edu> jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes:
>MUDS differ in that there are no "inalienable MUDders rights".
>> If the government were to choose, any or all of those rights could
>> cease to exist.
>no, they would still exist. the government would just be committing
>human rights violations. government exists -for- the people, not
>the other way 'round.

Perhaps so, but it's far from obvious.  Some people use "rights" to mean
those things that are actually guaranteed.  In this usage, if you're, say,
a Bosnian, you don't have a right to life.  Other people use "rights" to mean
something theoretical that can be violated, but always exists in the abstract.
These people would say that a Bosnian does have a right to life, but that this
right is being violated.

How do mudders not have rights in the _second_ sense?  (Note that the ability
of a wizard to do whatever he wants without retaliation means that the first
kind of right doesn't exist, but it says nothing about the second kind of
right.)
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: priss@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Lisa)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Re: user rights
Date: 9 Jan 93 09:37:12 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: glia.biostr.washington.edu

In <1im38dINNhk4@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> anon.560@pax.tpa.com.au writes:
>Subject: Player rights

>L 1:  Privacy.  Anything said or sent to a mud should be assumed to be in
>      the public domain and by logging in you effectivly agree to this, but
>      if the admin of the mud specifically states that privacy in somethings
>      will be respected, then the player has a right to expect that promise
>      to be kept. 

I do not believe that is correct.  Privacy is a right to all players.  Nothing
said or sent to the MU* is public domain if the material is passed between two
people.  Programs and Source codes are public domain, but still deserve the
credit to the people who wrote it.  An administrator can not be expected to be
trusted if the administrator fails to respect people's privacy on a MU* if the
admin can blantantly violated or bug a person's effects and then post them up
on the bandwidth (Re: TinyLog postings)

>L 3:  Copyright.  Similar to privacy.  You only retain copyright if the admin
>      grants it before-hand and has requested other players to comply.

I also disagree on this as well.  Copyright is something where a person has
made the effort to create the program.  Plagerism is not something people
would like to see without the afformentioned credit to the people who deserve
it.  This would be the same for MUCK's MUF programs, (Which I happen to be
a MUF programmer).  I worked hard on some of the programs I have done and like
to have the credit for doing it.  There are programs I like that I did not
create, but I do not claim credit for it when it is obvious who did the actual
coding.  It is not the admin who grants it, but it is the respect of the
players to keep the integrity of something that is a RL situation.
-- 
+----------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
| priss@glia.biostr.washington.edu |  Live Fast, Die Young, and make hearts   |
| Lisa Richardson                  |  melt as you go away!                    |
+----------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.diku,rec.games.mud.lp,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud,alt.mud
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Philosophising (was Re: Ego Tripping)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:25:56 GMT

In article <C0rsHt.Mx3@math.okstate.edu> russ@math.okstate.edu (R. Nomad) writes:
>>But trying to make one group look inferior
>>and the butt of all your jokes is stupid and immature.
>If there's a person who's posted here that I haven't laughed at, I'm stunned.

The one group is "rec.games.mud.* posters".
--
"Are you going with the fallacious assumption that we all think alike just
because we're superior to just about anyone else?"
	-- Felix Ortony, about the alleged Random Gang

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen)
Subject: Joel's Flames
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:01:43 GMT

Gee, Joel, still clinging to the mistaken idea that only Player #1 is capable 
of doing nasty things like eavesdropping on a MU*?  Protection from cretinous 
hackers who abuse MUCKer bits and low-level wizardness is quite doable from the
standpoint of an Admin, but the question is whether it is worth his trouble.
     Who says Congress has sole power to pass laws?  FCC has pretty sweeping 
powers without resorting to conspiracy theories, and they do know about 
Internet.  Congress didn't have to meet in committee to fine Howard Stern's 
station, the FCC just did it on their own authority.  Where there exists 
something to regulate it is the nature of a bureaucracy to establish a branch 
to regulate it and such branches often have a fair amount of discretion.  The 
FCC just hasn't had enough impetus to do anything to Internet yet because of 
inertia, but paranoia is not needed to see the possibility of that inertia 
being overcome.  And the FCC's rulings are de facto laws until specifically 
shot down by Congress.
     And as to the "Status Quo" types you mention, they don't seem to be very 
vocal, so I didn't include them.  And alot of them really fall in category 1 
anyway, not wanting to bother to change anything.
     I didn't bother to read all of your flames, so forgive me if there was 
some bit of illogic you spewed and I forgot to correct.
     Dave Van Domelen, not a conspiracy theorist, but rather someone who has 
seen the inner workings of too many bureaucracies to trust them to keep their 
hands off Internet for much longer.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: user rights
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 21:52:29 GMT

In article <C0Lo80.EGC@math.okstate.edu> russ@math.okstate.edu (Dr. Amon) writes:
>>I do not believe that is correct.  Privacy is a right to all players.  Nothing
>>said or sent to the MU* is public domain if the material is passed between two
>>people.  Programs and Source codes are public domain, but still deserve the
>>credit to the people who wrote it.  An administrator can not be expected to be
>>trusted if the administrator fails to respect people's privacy on a MU* if the
>>admin can blantantly violated or bug a person's effects and then post them up
>>on the bandwidth (Re: TinyLog postings)
>That's terribly naive.  The admin cannot gurantee privacy because it is not
>in his or her power to do so, period.

What about the Furry snooper?  If nobody has a right to privacy, in what sense
did the Furry snooper do something wrong?

It's true that the admin cannot guarantee privacy, but "privacy is a right",
even disregarding the misuse of "right", really has nothing to do with
guarantees.  You're reacting like "privacy is a right" is an attempt to shift
the blame from the privacy violator to the administrator.  No, it's not, it's
just a recognition that the violator actually violated something.

>Copyright is totally the wrong word, I think, as well, but.

For logs, maybe.  For text and programs, copyright certainly does exist (even
though you'll have a hell of a time trying to sue for damages).
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Proposal
From: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner)
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:28:44 EST
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


1. MUDs should have a policy paper online.
2. This paper should describe the conditions players on the MUD can 
   expect, as well as penalties for violating MUD policies.
3. If a specific "right" is not listed, or no policy is on file, 
   players should assume they have -no- "rights" until determined 
   otherwise.

considering the large number of MUDs out there & the even greater number
of opinions on the subject, i suspect this is the closest we'll ever get
to a consensus.

jason

- --
             I stood up on my van. I yelled "Excuse me, sir. 
                  Ain't nothing wrong with this country 
                that a few plastic explosives won't cure!"
              - Steve Taylor, I Blew Up the Clinic Real Good
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu ,`,`,`

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Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud
From: jzelding@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Jeff Zelding)
Subject: RiftMUSH - Ad & RPG News!
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:40:37 GMT



			R I F T M U S H
			=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

RiftMUSH is based on the Rift War Saga, written by Raymond E. Feist and 
the Empire Series, by Raymond E. Feist and Janny Wurts. The time period
for this MUSH is 100 years after "Mistress of the Empire" was completed.  

RiftMUSH is located at helix0.chem.iastate.edu 5555 or, 129.186.10.6 5555
and is running under PennMUSH 1.50 Patchlevel 6 #b

We have two new MUSH-wide RPG plots starting up around the 4th week of 
January, so join now so you can get involved! We're looking forward to
having you scheme with us! :)

Come visit us and take a look around!  Any Admin or Player will be willing
to show you around and/or answer any questions.

If you are in need of the book list for the RiftWar Saga, please email me
or @mail me on the MUSH.

-Jeff (Lokatana@RiftMUSH)


+-----------------------------------+------------------------------------+
| Jeff Zelding, IBM Toronto Lab     | The light at the end of the tunnel |
| jzelding@vnet.ibm.com             | is the other train coming at you!  |
| jzelding@descartes.uwaterloo.ca   +------------------------------------+
+-----------------------------------+ MU* Addresses:                     |
| Yes sir! Right-oh, sir! --Sergeant| Lokatana - RiftMUSH 129.186.10.6   |
|    Rifght away, sir!       the cat| Lokatana - Everywhere Else    5555 |
+-----------------------------------+------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: russ@math.okstate.edu (R. Nomad)
Subject: Re: user rights
Organization: Aggie? What precisely is an Aggie?
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:56:37 GMT

In <1993Jan9.215229.23295@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>What about the Furry snooper?  If nobody has a right to privacy, in what sense
>did the Furry snooper do something wrong?

I never said nobody has a right to privacy.  I said anyone wanting a guarantee
of privacy is naive.  I stick by it, too.

>It's true that the admin cannot guarantee privacy, but "privacy is a right",
>even disregarding the misuse of "right", really has nothing to do with
>guarantees.  You're reacting like "privacy is a right" is an attempt to shift
>the blame from the privacy violator to the administrator.  No, it's not, it's
>just a recognition that the violator actually violated something.

I'm unsure this is clear in the minds of all participants in this debate,
but I follow you, yes.  And it is a misuse of right, but we've been over that.

I read the message I was replying to as insisting on guarantees.

>>Copyright is totally the wrong word, I think, as well, but.

>For logs, maybe.  For text and programs, copyright certainly does exist (even
>though you'll have a hell of a time trying to sue for damages).

I suppose it won't kill me to add to news policy that I will be keeping the
database archived after the MUSH goes down with all items at that time
intact, period.  Is this necessary?

Otherwise, once again, I can't guarantee that nobody will ever see your code,
but I won't be handing it out myself.

-Random
see, this beats a conference and buzzers cold

-- 
---------------------===Comedy!  Sudden, violent comedy!===--------------------
Russ Smith -- russ@math.okstate.edu  |  "This is the Nineties, Bubba, and
  Don Random of the "Random Gang"    |   there is no such thing as Paranoia.
What a pinhead! Does he not fear us? |   It's all true." -- Hunter S Thompson
From: libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Tim
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:38:05 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

Anybody have any idea what's up with Tim?  I just got back, and
haven't been able to get on for a couple of days.
Sorry if this has already been discussed; I've been away, you
see...

Bill

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny