HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tsuit@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Tom Suit)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: downforce and cornering g's (was which car handles the best?
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:08:49 GMT
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA

In article <BvG5Lt.6vs@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Sep30.194233.17558@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> tsuit@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Tom Suit) writes:
+ >
+ >  BZZT! Wrongo! Lateral acceleration is a complete separate force from
+ >  gravity. It has nothing to do with gravity other than the fact that
+ >  lateral acceleration is often measured in units called g's which are
+ >  equal to the acceleration of the pull of gravity on an object.
  
> For the sake of this discussion, we have a vehicle with "0 downforce
> aerodynamics" moving in a straight line at a constant 60 MPH. Thus, the
> normal force on the wheels and tires is nominally 1g.
  
> Now, suppose the driver turns the steering wheel. The car begins to move
> laterally. What force, precisely, causes this lateral acceleration?

  It is most certainly the friction of the tires on the pavement.
  Remember in my posting where I said that gravity gives you the
  pressure that hold your tires against the road so that the rubber has
  a chance to work?
  
> Is it not the FRICTION of the car's tires against the road surface
> whichg causes this lateral acceleration? Is not this FRICTIONAL force a
> function of mu, the coefficient of rolling friction, multiplied by the
> normal force (1g)? In our hypothetical example, how would our test car
> achieve a lateral acceleration of > 1g? Either the normal force must
> exceed 1g (which it does not; our postulate states that the weight of
> the car, and therefore the normal force, is precisely 1g), or the
> coefficient of friction must exceed 1.0.

  The significant thing you are ruling out is the contact area of the
  tires. Wider tires give you more grip. (assuming dry pavement) I can't
  BELIEVE you didn't consider that.


Tom Suit
Xref: sparky rec.autos:23451 rec.autos.tech:13636
From: smith@ug.cs.dal.ca (Sean Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Pontiac Fiero problems?
Keywords: Fiero, problems
Date: 7 Oct 92 00:01:50 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

In article <1992Oct6.132550.14132@bnr.ca> dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton) writes:
[Stuff deleted]
[Something about GM making cars for 60 years and not getting it right]

	I have 1 word for the above:  Saturn.

	Sean
-- 
Sean Smith - Dalhousie University               Bill and Opus in '92 in the US!
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada                    Don Cherry for Prime Minister in
01SSMITH@AC.DAL.CA or smith@ug.cs.dal.ca	'93 in Canada!
Disclaimer:  These ideas are mine...ALL MINE!!  'Cause noone else'd want 'em.
From: dtn@po.CWRU.Edu (Donald T. Noda)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: 231 turbo question
Date: 1 Oct 1992 15:13:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


	I was wondering if getting an aftermerket or junk yard
turbo charger for my GM231 would be okay.  In other words, will
I have to modify the suspension and rear end to accomodate the
extra power.  I intend on getting the engine rebuilt anyway so
installing the turbocharger would be incidental.  The ride is soft
and I would prefer to get the cornering better.  Any suggestions?

		Thanks!!


			Don
-- 
           __    _______       _        |
      ----/  \  /__  __/  /\  / /------ |216-754-1981
    -----/ /\ \   / /    / /\/ /-----   |dtn@cwns4.ins.cwru.edu
 ------/_____/  /_/    /_/  \/----      |   
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:15:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.212550.21539@igor.tamri.com> salil@igor.tamri.com (Salil Saxena) writes:
>4.  Alfa Spider.

i might add that alfa's current move to a mostly FWD lineup (with a few
AWD models) is largely dictated by corporate parent fiat; it is not at
all clear that alfa would have done so if it had not become part of
the italian conglomerate.

richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dino@sequent.com (Dean Helm)
Subject: 66 T-BIRD parts for sale
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 22:25:49 GMT


I'm selling a complete set of chrome door stripes and a complete set
of hubcaps.  These are in good condition.  Please make offer.

I can be reached via email or day phone 503-578-4330 or
                              night     503-626-0279.

  Dean Helm
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: tips on buying used TAURUS
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 21:10:43 GMT

In article 13700@bnr.ca, jcyuhn@crchh574.BNR.CA (James Yuhn) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.131435.15294@genrad.com>, sully@genrad.com (Mark Sullivan)
>writes:
>|>
>|>in a few months i intend on buying a used 1986,87 TAURUS. does anyone out
>there
>|>have any suggestions on things to be aware of ??  how many miles does one 
>|>expect to get out of motor & trans. ??  noises indicting "early life failures"
>??		
>|>
>|>thanks in advance,	mark sullivan 	sully@genrad.com
>
>  Much as I hate to say so, the '86-'87 Taurus' have had some pretty
>  severe problems. The introduction of the Taurus was the first year 
>  for the 3.0 liter "Vulcan" engine. In both '86 and '87, many Taurus'
>  (and Sables) suffered piston slap problems. The cure - an engine 
>  rebuild. Many of these automobiles had the engine rebuilt at about
>  30K miles. I don't know how effective the rebuild is as permanently
>  curing the problem. Ford has some type of extended warranty coverage
>  on the problem - best check with a good dealer or a zone office for
>  details.
> 
>  The best solution is probably to stretch and try to get an '88 model.
>  Failing that, listen carefully under the hood for not-good noises,
>  make sure the engine has already been rebuilt, check to car's service
>  history, etc. The eary Tauri (?) are definately buyer beware items.
> 
>  Good luck, you might need it,

   My aunt had a rare one, I think an '86. This car did not have the 3.0
or 3.8 V6. It had a 2.3 Litre four! 

   That was what surprised me when I changed her oil, once.

   She got rid of it because the Tempo motor just wasn't any good
with the car loaded full of the kids and all their camping gear.

Andy.

PLEASE EXCUSE MY OBVIOUS IGNORANCE.
From: gggj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving
Subject: NEED addresses: Ford, GM, Chrysler
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:48:56 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

Hey,
I need the following information:

a) the design/styling heads of Ford, GM, and Chrysler.
b) the addresses for Ford, GM, and Chrysler (Chrysler's new CTC).

Thanks for your help.
scott
From: rteasdal@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Rusty)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Nissan NX 2000 tire recommendation?
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:58:25 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, CSc Department


	The subject line doesn't convey _all_ the background, of
course :-) I have a '91 NX 2000 - love the car! It's fast, snippy,
completely reliable, does well by me at the gas pump, and has been
all in all a boon companion.

	However, the stock tires are _gone_ at 19K. They're Dunlop
SP Sport D40M2s. Other than their wretched wear characteristics,
they're wonderful tires in wet or dry, but I would prefer to purchase
something longer lasting this time around (they're rated 180AA).

	It's bloody well impossible to match the stock tire size,
as well: 195/55-14. To say the least, a 55 aspect ratio is uncommon.
Most local tire pros say a 185/60-14 or, possibly, a 195/60 will be
about the best I can do, short of buying another set of Dunlops.

	I'm ready to take the chance of queering the handling a bit
by buying a slightly different size. The question now is of make and
model. I've listed my final choices below, and I most eagerly solicit
comments on any and all of the contenders...


(a) Goodyear Eagle GAs. Well-reputed tire. I've been very happy
    buying Eagles in the past. I'd get a set of Gatorbacks if it
    were possible to get them in a 195/60, but 205/60-14 is as close
    as one can get, and the local pros say that's too big. I'd jump
    on the GAs, but they have only a 200 wear rating and a B temp.
    That doesn't sound promising for long life.


(b) Pirelli P600. Again, people say good things about the tires,
    but they have low wear ratings (less than 200).


(c) Pirelli P6. I'm told they don't last more than 20K under the
    best circumstances, but, what the hell, they're very cheap!
    $60 a tire is not to be sneezed at.


(d) Michelin XGT H4. My father's put more than 70K on a set of
    Michelin MXLs on his 7-series BMW in the past. I don't know
    if this excellent durability is to be expected of their sport
    tires or not, though.


(e) B.F. Goodrich Comp T/A. High wear rating, but I have no direct
    experience at all with the line. I recall that back in high 
    school, standard T/As were big with the musclecar crowd, but
    an NX imposes different requirements, to say the least :-)


	Any ideas? I'll take any feedback I can get.




-- 
||||||||   Russ Teasdale -- rteasdal@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU  --  (Rusty)  ||||||||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gentlemen, if we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure." - D. Quayle
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: HP and FWD vs RWD (was Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.)
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:11:29 GMT
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Originator: brad@buck


In article <stuart.717817096@yacht>, stuart@ee.fit.edu (William Stuart) writes:

[stuff deleted]
|> 
|>   Somebody may correct me, but I cannot think of one Ultra-high performance
|>   car that is not RWD.  STOCK, that is.  Or street prepared (SCCA definition)
|>   I would arbitrarily classify Ultra-high performance as 0-60 in sub 6 sec,
|>   1/4 mi. in sub 15 sec.  High slalom speeds too.
|> 

If by Ultra-high performance you mean massive horsepower, you are probably
correct. Applying massive power into the steering wheels is inherently
problematic. Through very clever engineering, it can be done successfully,
but there comes a point of diminishing returns.

The new Cadillac Allante with the Northstar V8 has (I think) 280 HP going 
into the front wheels, and it seems the handling is quite respectable.
But as HP and torque go up, so do the difficulties with applying it to
wheels that have a variable angle with respect to the power vector. 
From: andyc@hplsla.hp.com (Andy Cassino)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 23:20:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Saab 900i Problems?
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.autos

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:

> In article <3360187@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> zampicem@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Mike Zampiceni) writes:
> >I've found SAABs to be quirky, rewarding cars to drive that require a
> >considerable amount of maintenance. They tend to have a harsher ride,
> >particularly the turbos, but are great road cars that are safe and 
> >can carry a lot of stuff.
> 
> 	Make that "really outrageous amounts of unexpected replacements
> and rebuilds to every system in the car after sudden total failure" instead
> of "considerable amounts" and I'd agree with everything you said.
> 

Hey Wharfie, I've had my '88 SAAB 900S for 5 years and 111,000 miles and 
there has been precisely one "unexpected" replacement and it did not cause 
"sudden total failure". That replacement was the pinion bearings in the 
tranny; not cheap, for sure, but not outrageous.

Check it out: I have the original battery, alternator, exhaust system. The
shocks and water pump have been replaced once and only recently. I replaced
the clutch when the pinion bearings were replaced at 90K. It still had 1/3 of
the original lining. I still average 29 mpg and burn undetectable amounts 
of oil in a 5,000 mile change interval. Brake pads have been replaced 
once in the rear and twice on the front. All power accessories (windows, 
seat heaters, etc) work perfectly.  The car essentially drives and looks 
like new! I am much more satisfied with my SAAB at 111K than I was with 
my previous car (an '81 Accord) at 100K, when *everything* went to hell.

Swedish Automobiles Always Break........... NOT!!!


    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Andy Cassino                                       %
    % Hewlett-Packard - Lake Stevens Instrument Division %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: Civic SI clutch chatter
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 17:30:45 GMT

In article 4080@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU, xh2v@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Xiaojun  Huang) writes:
>
>My 84 civic was working smoothly until yesterday morning.
>
>It had been very cold(about 40 at night) and raining for a couple of days
>Yesterday when I started my car I found that it started to give out blue
>smoke, a lot of smoke. then I checked up the engine oil and found almost
>drained.

Did you hit something that may have mushed up your oil pan? This happened to
me once. Caused all the oil to be forced up past the piston rings and
trashed the valve train because of oil starvation.

>I was told that it might be due to the worn out of a rubber piece inside
>the cylinder which seperates the oil from the combustion chamber(Gasket).
>Does anyone know what are the most probable causes of that?
>Are there any simple ways to tell(I mean without going to the mechanics)?

Not a rubber piece! a metal piece. could be that a piston ring broke apart
and let the oil up into the combustion chamber.

>Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Check your oil pan visually by getting under the car. If it looks normal,
fill the crank-case with heavier oil (20W50), and do a compression test.

If you can't do a compression test, get it towed and checked out at your
favorite garage. Then decide whether or not you want to rebuild/replace
the engine or scrap the car.

Andy.

PLEASE IGNORE MY OBVIOUS IGNORANCE.
From: mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: downforce and cornering g's (was which car handles the best?
Date: 1 Oct 92 06:10:50 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Sep30.194233.17558@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> tsuit@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Tom Suit) writes:
>In article <selpJCq00iUyM5oFRp@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Daniel M. Deright" <dd36+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> In regards to Dave Paper's comments on downforce
>  
>    
>> >Ummm I hate to clarify something..

OK, enough of this stuff. Let someone who is a mechanical engineer 
and has taken way too many physics courses explain this.

To start simply, Force=Mass*Acceleration. OK, good. Now, believe it 
or not, there is no such thing as centripital force. Thats right. 
When a body is moving in a circle, it is accelerating towrds the center 
of the circle. That is way a `force` can be felt by occupants in a 
car when it turns; it is the force of the accelerating car seat pushing
on your body, which causes you to accelerate towards the center of the
turn.

Now, when a car turns, the tires are exerting a force on the road to
accelerate it in the direction of the turn. This force is given by
F=Normal Force*Coefficient of Friction. Now, for a level road, that
normal force is going to equal the weight of the car plus any additional
down force produced by wings, spoilers, etc. The coefficient of static
friction for rubber on cement is about 1.0. This means that the total
force of the tires is going to be F=1.0(Weight of Car+Added downforce).
Since the weight of the car=mass of car*gravity, it can be clearly
deduced that acceleration of a turning car can be greater than one
`g`, or the acceleration due to gravity. 

I can get much more specific, but probably no one would understand it,
or care for that matter. For any physics gurus out there, please 
ignore my somewhat simplified approach.


-- 
|       Michael G. Mshar        | My Life-Long Goal: To keep common sense    |
|   mmshar@mn.ecn.purdue.edu    | alive and keep the idiots from taking over.|
|  mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu   |     \\President, Nice Guys Anonymous//     |
|____>>> United States Steel, Mechanical Engineer, Technical Services <<<____|
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ins499y@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Deeran Peethamparam)
Subject: Re: downforce and cornering g's (was which car handles the best?
Organization: Monash University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 13:19:24 GMT

eliot (eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu) wrote:
: Actually it does not take a F1 car to generate 1g anymore.  Over in
: Europe there's the Ford Escort RS Cosworth 4x4, claimed to be the
: first production car ever to generate net positive downforce.  It is
: also shod with Pirelli P Zero's.  The Europeans don't care about g
: force measurements much so I don't know the numbers, but with positive
: downforce, going past 1g shouldn't be too difficult given some speed.

You're right, it doesn't take an F1 car to generate 1g anymore -- at least
on the road.  On the circlular skidpads used to test g-forces, the speeds
used are pretty low, held down by lots of understeer.  On the road, however,
the sharp turn in of tossing a car into a corner will generate higher
g-forces (as measured by a G-Analyst).  As an example, the skidpad g's
of the new RX-7 is about 0.94g (depending on the skidpad, the driver, tire
pressures etc).  When an Australian magazine, "Wheels" tested the car on
the track using a G-Analyst, it pulled 1.02g consistently on the one
corner.  It'd be the same for a F1 car; on a skidpad the g-force figures
wouldn't be too good, but at speed, and driven aggressively into a corner,
the g-forces are pretty high.  Just look at the thickness of Ayrton Senna's
neck!  :-)

DP
From: 01ksdavis@bsu-ucs.uucp (Rebel without a clue.)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Whats a Geo Metro (explained)
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:23:14 GMT

In article <3TN7RB1w164w@cellar.org>, blu@cellar.org (Dan Reed) writes:
> Geo Metros
> ^^^^^^^^^^ - Please Explain This!
> 
> A Geo, is a car comany here in the states, that sells several small, crummy, 
> magot shit box cars under the Chevy name.  The cars are made by Isusu, 
> Toyota, and Diahatsu (sp?).  All sold under the Geo name.  One such car, the 
> Geo Metro, is a small, 4 person car.  The car, is *Very* small, and sports (I 
> think) a 3 cyl. engine, and gets 56Mpg.  Needless to say, this car, does not 
> have that much power...
> 
> ----- 
>  Dan Reed (Blu-Max) blu@cellar.org - AutoCad Geek - VW Lover - InlineSkater 
> 68 Cougar XR-7, 89 VW Golf, 72 Honda CL360Twin, Ti/99/4a, Vextrex, Timex
-- 
	Indeed, the air-conditioning and an automatic tranny on this car puts so
much strain on the engine it won't move.  

	Another thing about the metro-I have seen the afters.  Can you say
death-traps?  Can you say I feel safer in my unsafe-at-any-speed VW BUG or Chevy
Corvair?  Can you say Ralph Nader only persecutes cool cars?
 ______________________________________________________________________________
|Kyle S. Davis				                                       |
|2000HD	1MbRAM//                                Hot VWs               1973     |
|1084s       //  Only Amiga makes it possible,    \/   Take 2 home-   311      |
|Oki 20   \\//   All others make it plausible.   \/\/  They're small.          |
|
|______________________________________________________________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: chevy pickups going kaboom like a pinto
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 21:26:46 GMT

In article 10577@hubcap.clemson.edu, jlysagh@hubcap.clemson.edu (james joseph lysaght) writes:
>I saw an article on Inside Edition (I know, TABLOID !!!!) last night about
>Chevy pickups (1973-1987) models haveing a little problem with exploding.
>According to the article their safety record is far FAR worse than that
>of the '79 Ford Pinto's that have such a bad reputation for rear end
>collisions.  The gas tank on the Chevy Pickups is mounted between the
>main spar of the frame and the body outboard of the frame spar.
>Therefore, in an accident, the gas tank gets squished between the body
>and frame and can burst and explode.  I noticed this once when I was
>underneath my brother-in-laws pickup and questioned the wisdom of the
>gas tank placement but figured "hey, I'm sure ol' GM knows more about it
>than I do"  Aparently the government has ordered an investigation into
>the safety of these vehicles and why they were not recalled. GM has
>apparently been paying MAJOR settlements with a stipulation that the
>people they settle with have to keep their mouths shut about it or pay back
>the money and so we have not heard a lot about it before.  Anybody know
>more about this?  Anybody know anybody who's truck was torched from
>this?
>
>Jim


   Just a word on Pintos. When they originally designed the car, they had to
save some weight. The '72 was the first Pinto model. To save weight, they
eliminated the body reinforcements that run back of the rear wheels to
the bumper. After a few kabooms and lawsuits, the body reinforcements
were added. The extra weight made the Pinto a real slug. The revised
and reinforced Pinto featured a "rupture-proof" fuel tank which was
shielded from smacking the differential by a rubber shield in the event of a
collision. Later Pintos( '76 and later) were completely safe, but Ford
could never get rid of the reputation started by the earlier cars, and
their tendency to go sky-high with just a little nudge.
   
  This thing about exploding GM pickups is a new one on me. I drove one 
for three years until the frame broke, slid into all kinds of things
sideways while offroading, and I'm still here to write about it.

Andy.

PLEASE EXCUSE MY OBVIOUS IGNORANCE.
From: gggj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Automotive Enthusiast BBS!NEW!
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:00:00 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

Announcing...

A New BBS dedicated to automotive enthusiasts.  It will cater to all automotive
interests, from racing to design to new car discussions to questions and
answers about fixing your car!

All this, on a free BBS!  Starting Wednesday, Oct 7 evening, the number to call
with your modem is (607) 256-7595.

300 through 14,400 bps (V32bis) 24 hrs a day.

Email me for more information
Scott Mandell