From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Secular Jews
Date: 6 Jan 93 15:18:03 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO

To: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com

 RS> Date: 5 Jan 93 00:18:12 GMT
 RS> Organization: IBM Research
 RS> Message-ID: <1993Jan05.001812.55630@watson.ibm.com>
 RS> Newsgroups: alt.messianic
 RS> In article <141657.2B3F24E6@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>,
 RS> Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson) writes: |> 
 |>      Regardless of differences, and things that we may not agree upon
 |>      regarding our differing approach to both the Mitzvot and halachah;
 |>      there is one thing that is in common between the groups: they are
 RS> ^^^^^^^^^^
 |>      Jewish, and believe that Y'shua is the Messiah.  That is aprox.
 |>      14.5% + of the total ethnic Jewish population, and growing.
 |> 
 RS> I'd like to pin you down here.  By "the groups", I assume you
 RS> mean Hebrew Christians, Jews for Jesus, and Messianics, plus
 RS> assimilated Jews in conventional Gentile churches.  Is your
 RS> figure of 14.5% inclusive of all of these, or is it more narrowly
 RS> inclusive only of Messianics, as seemed to be implied earlier?
 RS> By "Jewish", I assume you mean "halachically Jewish".
 RS> By "believer", I assume you mean anyone nominally Christian?

     The figure 14.5% is quite conservative, since it is based upon
     a Rabbinic study that only includes ethnic Jews who regularly
     attend Gentile Churches, and does not include Messianic Jews,
     Jews who believe that Yeshua is the Messiah but do not attend
     anywhere, Jewish on the father's side only, and is limited to
     those in the USA.
              According to the Inter Mountain Jewish News,
        (Denver Colo., April 1991), the Council of Jewish Federation's
        survey, stated that 12% of all ethnic American Jews were
        "Christian", with 6% Protestant, 5% Catholic, and 1%
        unspecified.
     The extra 2.5% I threw in to reflect the Messianic Jewish groups
     in the USA, which is aprox. 2%, and the 0.5% reflects growth in
     the movement in the last 1-3/4yrs..  It is conservative in my
     opinion as the figures I included {2.5%} in addition to the
     Rabbinic figures only includes those who are considered Jews by
     halachah.  So..., if you want to use only the Rabbinic survey, it
     would be 12%, (not including the Messianic Jewish movement), who
     are in Gentile Churches.

 RS> So my wife's sister's son is being counted in this 14.5%, for
 RS> example?  (my wife's sister became Christian at 12, later
 RS> married an Evangelical Congregationalist Minister.)

     Yes.

 RS> My assimilated nephew who married a Gentile, is totally
 RS> non-religious, but occasionally shows up at a church with
 RS> his in-laws, is counted too?

     Not according to that Rabbinic survey I'd gather.

 RS> My wife's brother's son is not counted, right? (The brother
 RS> converted and married a Gentile Christian)

     No, had the survey included those born from a Jewish father only,
     or using standards that would be closer to those the Reform
     movement would use to determine Jewishness, then perhaps he would
     have been.

... 012 Am Israel Chai! 210    
--  
Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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