HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Date: 17 Dec 92 23:05:24 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Dec17.185756.24818@news.cs.brandeis.edu> tabron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>I'm interested in the topic of what exactly is the "geography" of the SCA.
>Someone else mentioned this, and Arval also spoke of the "geographical" rubric
>of the SCA. Does the SCA cover a specific geography as well as a specific
>time period? If so, what is it, and what then should we make of all the
>Japanese, Arabic, and (you knew it was coming) Mongolian personas in our midst?

As I recall, the specification is that the SCA includes those areas
that were in contact with Europe during our period.  That covers a lot
of territory--especailly if one uses a farily loose version of 'in
contact.'  Even under restrictive definitions it includes Islamic
Spain and North Africa, everything to the Urals and the Near East
(even if only via the Crusades).  More generally, there are the
incursions by the Mongols into Europe (as recently emntioned on
another thread) and their treaties with and representatives at the
courts of various countries in central to western Europe.

Farther east south and west, you ahve to look to the definition you
wish to use.  There was extensive contact (in at least one direction)
in the Caribbean and Central America, significant contact down the
Atlantic coast of Africa, and (eventually--but still before 1600) the
Magellan expedition that went all the way around the world.  

A good deal earlier, at least artifacts drifted westward on occasion.
There is a small bronze Bhudda from hoard found on Gotland and dating
from the heyday of Scandinavian activity, for instance.  Can this be
consrued as 'contact' with India?  There are also the Greenlan and
Vinland settlements.  One could stretch these to be 'contact' with
Eskimos and Amerinds.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Fealty and Homage
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:08:02 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

We had a lengthy discussion a while back on fealty and homage, their
similarities, differences, authenticities, and what have you, which
unfortunately I did not save.  Now a friend is asking for references
on these subjects, particularly how they were seen to differ in period.
He's an annoyed squire who is about to give his knight his belt back,
and he says a friend recently said to him, "Trouble is, you're treating
fealty as if it were homage."  So he would like a list of references
to enable him to understand that.  Please e-mail me any answers you
may have--or you _could_ post, but I'm a bit nervous of setting off
the whole fealty-vs.-homage fandango again.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin		Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West			UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable		cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non-Steel Re: On the nature of armor....
Date: 20 Dec 92 09:13:14
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
Distribution: world, na, usa, local
	<DOCONNOR.92Dec19070325@potato.sedona.intel.com>
	<1gvj5rINN5gc@crcnis1.unl.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: mcs@unlinfo.unl.edu's message of 19 Dec 1992 16:38:19 GMT


mcs@unlinfo.unl.edu (michael straatmann) writes:
]
] In the discussion of acceptable armor (of which I find both sides 
] fascinating :-) It is stated that non-steel knees and elbows are not 
] acceptable. 

I don't think anyone said exactly that. I have said I myself would
not use aluminum elbow and knee protection, because of the problems
invloved in working deep compound curves into aluminum and the
brittleness of the alloy ofter such work. 

I prefer steel elbows for me. But I'm very paranoid about joint injuries.
With other parts of my armour I can accept some risk that it may fail 
because the consequences are not too serious. But I am reluctant to accept
such risks when it comes to my head, knees or elbows. Steel is a strong,
tough, and forgiving of abuse material, so that's what I use for me.

Other people, tho, are quite happy with the safety afforded them by
hardened leather, aluminum or other materials. Which I don't have
a problem with, and neither does the marshalate.

] This is not the case throughout the Known World.  As I understand it,
] the only thing _required_ to be steel is the helm.

I don't think that's even strictly true. Although there are warnings
about low-mass helms in the rules, there is no actual requirement
for them to be made steel. 

] In other kingdoms, is this steel [for knees/elbows] required?

Not in Aetenveldt.
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:13:07 GMT


    Iain Odlin wrote:

 IO> Arval makes many good observations (all deleted for brevity), but then
 IO> includes a note saying that armorial uniqueness wasn't enforced in
 IO> period (with caveats, of course, but I think my following question
 IO> doesn't run into any of them).

 IO>   What then was the Scropes trial in the late fourteenth (early fifteenth?
 IO>   My books aren't with me right now...) about?

 I'll save Arval the trouble of pointing out that, at the same muster in
 the north of England where Scrope and Grosvenor got into it, there was a
 knight from Cornwall who bore the same arms. The Court of Chivalry decided
 that he didn't matter, since he lived so far away from either of the
 others. The basic problem was that the Grosvenors and the Scropes all had
 lands in the north and would be running into each other with enough
 frequency to make it a problem. This is what Arval meant by uniqueness
 only being enforced "locally".

    Tadhg, Obelisk


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Rattan Sword-making
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 15:35:11 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <GLEASON.92Dec14091446@scf16.scf.loral.com> gleason@scf16.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason) writes:

>As for the four month life span of a sword, that has been the same
>for many that I fight. Seeing as a sword I had over a year ago
>lasted me 10 months I feel the 4 month cases are possibly due to 
>bad rattan (I have seen some fighters get brooms in just a week).
>Apparently much of what we get here is very dry.
>
>That brings forth a question or two:
>
>How long on average do most people's swords last?

Mine last two months if I'm very lucky. I do not use my fighting
swords on the pell.

I will grant I fight more often than most, and am on the field
for more fights per practice than the average...So I suspect that
for a local 'average fighter' (a guy who makes almost every
practice, and doesn't sit around bench-duelling the entire
night), four months would be about right.

As for hitting too hard, I have people saying "light"
fairly frequently, so I suspect I'm not too ogrish.

Carolus Malvoix
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rattan Sword-making
Date: 11 Dec 1992 23:41:07 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


A general query to those who do use shrink-tubing to extend the life of
their swords:

How much weight do a sword's length of tubing add to the total weight of
a sword?

I'm constantly fighting getting the total weight of my swords down to
realistic weights and still have a respectable balance.  I'd hate to
substitute the fiber tape for something substantially heavier to extend
the useful life of a sword.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:13:13 GMT

                                The fact behind the rules used for SCA
  armory is that there has been, since the early days of the society, an
  effort to recreate *period* armory.  This effort is, apparently, 
  sanctioned by the membership, as it is written into our laws (Corpora
  or the By-Laws, I forget which.)

You knew I couldn't resist, right?

Corpora: IV.  CORPORATE ADMINISTRATION

   C. LAUREL SOVEREIGN OF ARMS AND THE COLLEGE OF ARMS

      1. Laurel Sovereign of Arms.  The Laurel Sovereign of Arms (Laurel)
  is the principal heraldic officer of the Society and the head of the
  College of Arms. Laurel is responsible for fostering the study and
  practice of heraldry, and for establishing rules and making deter-
  minations regarding names and armory, royal and noble titles, and
  geographical designations to be approved for use in the Society.
  (See Appendix C.)

      2. College of Arms.  The College of Arms of the Society consists
  of the Principal Heralds of the kingdoms and such other persons as
  Laurel may deem to be of assistance.  It aids Laurel in studying medieval
  heraldic usage, developing heraldic rules for the Society's use, and
  reviewing individual items prior to their registration for use in the
  Society. 

      3. Heraldic Administration  

         a. Standards of difference and other rules.  Laurel shall define
    standards suitable to the type of item to be registered, and apply
    them uniformly to all such submissions.  These standards shall be
    designed to support the historical re-creations of the Society and
    to provide sufficient difference from names and armory registered
    within the Society to avoid undue confusion, to avoid the appearance
    of unearned honors or false claims, and to provide sufficient diff-
    erence from historical or fictional personages to prevent offense
    due to obvious usurpation of identity or armory.  Members are encouraged
    to develop unique, historically valid names and armory.

         b. Any item once registered shall remain registered unless the
    owner requests its release, and shall be accepted in the Society for
    the person for whom it was registered without regard to changes in
    the rules and standards applied to future submissions, or to the
    membership status of the owner.  

         c. The standards and rules employed by Laurel and the College
    of Arms shall be published so that participants in Society activities
    can obtain copies for their own reference.  The Ordinary and Armorial
    listing registered names and armory shall also be made available to
    the membership.

         d. Laurel shall ensure that fees for the Society's heraldic
    publications (as defined in IV.C.3.c) and for its services in
    registering names or armory are sufficient to cover the cost of such
    services, both at the corporate level and within the kingdoms.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: tracker@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (The Renegade Ranger)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour
Date: 19 Dec 1992 13:57:24 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
>whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:

>] Apparently there exists an epoxy that can be baked onto aluminum that
>] does give the correct look and is readily available. [..] According to
>] my informant it dos not flake off or chip under SCA use on armor and
>] is flexible enough to conform when dents are made.  In am given to
>] understand that it is widely used in Trimaris.  Perhaps one of our
>] fellow Rialtans from that realm can supply additional details.
>
>I'd apreciate that. Anodizing a color onto the aluminum requires
>first "anodizing" (actually, stripping off the old anodization
>but the aluminum is still the anode of an electro-chemical cell)
>
>Baked-on epoxy has got to be easier ! Of course, it has to
>bake on at low temperature ( under 500F ) or it will remove
>the temper from the aluminum. I hope/assume this is the case.


 Hmm.. it might not prove useful, but recently I visited a manufacturer of
steel filing cabinets, since they're in our small town and they wanted to 
show people what they do, and they showed us the rolled steel they use to
make the filing cabinets. All of it comes in a pre-painted (through expoied
powder, if I remember correctly) roll of several hundred feet.

 Now, if some steel mills do this for commercial applications, I would
doubt that such an establishment would not exist to do the same for 
Aluminum. When I go home for christmas break I'll chat with the people at
the plant who are in charge of materials (There are only 21 people that work
there, can't be that hard...) and see if he can pass on some references. I
won't be back until about the 10th of January, so it'll be a while, but
maybe something will be found.

 On a similar note, do you have any idea how amusing it would be to get
hold of a roll of that steel sheet? (Which I might, from their reject pile,
if I can afford it..) The idea of an Oak-stained suit of lamellar doth dance
in my head...

-Tracker


From: Ulf.Gunnarsson@f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Ulf Gunnarsson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: HELP! name searching.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 01:28:00 -0500

MD-C>>I am searching for the name Thojulfson (don't know exact spelling).  I
    >>am searching various norse and icelandic sagas, but was wondering if
    >>anyone has seen of or heard of the name, and could assist me  Thanks.....

   Well, I'm at the office now, or I could give you a definite answer. I
know the name _Thorulf_ is valid, so _Thorulfson_ or _Thorulfsson_
should work. I may have seen something with a 'j' in it as well; I check
later and get back to you. Since you're using sagas, I give you a few
titles where you can look for Thorulf; just have to dig out that cross-
reference list I made while reading them.
   Norse sagas: the only literature requiring a geneological flowchart
for comprehension...

Ulfie


 * SLMR 2.1a * Let's play a yoke on Njal... Get the torch.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.heraldry.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: A ? about the source of Axemoore's name...
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:41:25 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!


alt.heraldry.sca is not an active newsgroup.  It is still carried at a few
sites, but not at most.  SCA heraldic discussion and questions on SCA
heraldic subjects can be directed to the mailing list
scahrlds@pucc.princeton.edu.  You can subscribe to that list by sending a
note to listserv@pucc.princeton.edu with a blank subject line and a body
consisting of the one line:

SUB SCAHRLDS Your name

with your name in any format.  Or you can just send in your questions.  If
the latter, please note that you are not subscribed so people can reply to
you directly.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: asparrow@mcs213a.cs.umr.edu (Angelia Sparrow)
Subject: Re: Scope of the SCA (was Re: Through a looking glass, darkly)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:21:59 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

I'm not saying it's good that there are few black members,
but it does make it easy at wars.

My little brother is black, and at last Lilies, Mom and i
were "The two white women witrh the little black kid."

We always got him back when he wandered off (usually not too
far).    

I think it is a fantasy thing: consider SF fandom.  It's
mostly teenage boys and middle-aged women.  And one is hard
pressed to find a woman of average weight.  They tend toward
anorexia or Reubanesque.  We have roughly the same demographics.

The above are my observations of Calontir and Kansas City area
and may or may not be accurate.  I disclaime
everything.

Aethelynda
From: Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour (was Re: HELP WANTED RE KINGDOM AWARDS)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 22:26:26 EST
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Hal Ravn writes:
> In article <DOCONNOR.92Dec16090456@potato.sedona.intel.com> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
>>this
>>armour will protect me in war, which is my primary reason for
>>making it : the authenticity issue is secondary.
> 
> But should it be?

Ideally, *both* issues could be addressed.  But if a choice *must* be made
between safety and authenticity, I personally choose safety.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
              That man that hath a tongue, I say, is no man
              If with his tongue he cannot win a woman.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Find out about events?
From: kgassner@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: 19 Dec 92 17:30:11 CST
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City
NNTP-Posting-Host: vax1.umkc.edu


Greetings, good gentles!

I'd like to ask you for your advice as to what would be the best way
to find out about events or at least major events in areas that are far outside
your local kingdom.

As a visitor to this continent I'm planning on doing some extensive travelling
to see the mundane US. As a new member to the SCA I'd like to plan my trips so
that they'll also take me to interesting SCA events. Just how would you find
out, what major or rather special events there will be in all of the kingdoms?
Is it possible to find out about them way ahead of time so I can plan my
travels accordingly? (Yes, I know what Pennsic is  :-)

For example, what/when/where is the Estrella war mentioned above?

Thank you for your help

		Ekkehart von Wartstein
From: haslock@rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: weaving/spinning mailing list?
Date: 12 Dec 1992 02:17:49 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: rust.zso.dec.com


There is a mailing list devoted to card weaving and related subjects. Since
it is very quiet at the moment some new blood would be appreciated.

Send mail to donna@envy.kwantlen.bc.ca or try
cw-request@envy.kwantlen.bc.ca with a subscribe message.

	Fiacha
	Aquaterra, AnTir
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Re-joining the SCA as a Bandit
Date: 21 Dec 92 01:36:33 GMT
Organization: Havenhurst College -- Office of the Provost

In article <uplink.724757799@cwis> uplink@cwis.unomaha.edu (Axel Rose) writes:

>	My question, to you knowledgeable Lords & Ladies, is this:
>Is it possible to join the SCA and not join the local Barony?  In this,
>I imagine I'll be sort of a Bandit, not owing fealty to the local 
>Baron, and could still be a part of the peerage (hey, Robin Hood
>got away with it, and according to SOME legends, he's period!)

If you do that with a bad attitude and throw it in people's faces, then
you might well find yourself alienating lots of potential friends.  "Hi,
I'm a bandit" probably gets really old really quickly.

Robin Hood had the advantage of being fictional.

>	And what does this entail?  Am I allowed to go to Barony 
>events?  Or am I a complete, autonomous unit?  (And would that mean
>that I can award myself Rank?  Just kidding... :) )

You can be as autonomous as you like.  This might, of course, entail having
no friends, but hey, that's a kind of autonomy isn't it?

Aryk Nusbacher

"If you're going to play the game, then play the game.  If not, then
stay home."
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:48:21 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec17.185756.24818@news.cs.brandeis.edu> tabron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:

>I for one am sick to death of Western European history ....

Hey, it could be worse.  You could be connected with an (e.g.) Civil War
group and have U.S. history pushed on you.  That's what I call dull.


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin		Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West			UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable		cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
From: dgreen@athena (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: The SCA Religion? ( was: Through a looking glass, darkly)
Date: 19 Dec 1992 20:22:42 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena.berkeley.edu

Hello from Bjalfi!

>When you look at the sense of community the SCA provides, I think calling it a
>fraternal organization, such as the Masons/Elks/etc., is much more accurate.  
>A'isha bint Jamil, of the Barony of Stonemarche, in the Kingdom of the East

Okay, everybody, so what's the SCA secret handshake?  (Not the Laurel
handshake, the Pelican handshake, the Herald handshake, or any of the
subgroups--I want to hear what's the secret handshake for the WHOLE of
the SCA.)

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: To Maredudd ap Cynan
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:54:47 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!

Maredudd, your e-address still doesn't work for me.  I'm still getting
"addressee unknown" errors.  

I've checked the LoAR for late summer and early fall, and I did not find
any submission for Jhanos.  It looks like he'll have to contact Siegfried
to figure out what's up.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com