HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: carruth@mksol.dseg.ti.com (matthew carruth)
Subject: Re: Public perception of general aviation
Keywords: n
Organization: internet
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:37:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.192520.13835@ultra.com>, aviva@ultra.com (Aviva Garrett) writes:
|> In article <15350@sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com> claude@color3.UUCP (Claude Goldsmith) writes:
|> >We can argue that at worst our airplanes are our RV of choice.  After
|> >all, we tolerate our neighbors boats, travel trailers , etc.
|> >Unfortunately though we need publicly supported airports.  
|> 
|> Don't forget that these people need publicly supported roads,
|> highways, and (possible) boat ramps to use their RV of choice.
|> 
|> ..Aviva
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|> Aviva Garrett
|> Ultra Network Technologies / 101 Daggett Drive / San Jose CA 95134
|> aviva@ultra.com  ...!ames!ultra!aviva  (408) 922-0100 

-- 

Don't forget most lakes in many parts of the country were built and are
mantained by the federal gov with vast amounts of tax money (Corps of Engineers,
etc)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My views are my own and do not reflect those of my employeers....
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
From: braner@trantor.emba.uvm.edu (Moshe Braner)
Subject: Re: Batteries & Damage Done...
Organization: University of Vermont, EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:36:34 GMT

In article <WD.92Nov5104030@sam.cs.tu-berlin.de> wd@cs.tu-berlin.de
(Wolfgang Diestelkamp) writes:
>Second: the amount of energy that was pumped into the battery during
>ten minutes at 1500 rpm is probably ridiculous for a nearly empty battery;
>imagine, you are supposed to charge a battery at one tenth of it's nominal
>rating for *14* hours to fully recharge it. So ten minutes, even if it was an
>order of magnitude higher (*10 times higher*) load current, would give you
>roughly 12 % of a full load; assuming the battery had 20 - 30 % to begin with,
>this isn't much of a difference for a could battery.

- I disagree.  The battery in a small plane like this is rated at 25 amp-hours.
That's 25 amps for one hour.  Or 2.5 amps for 10 hours.  That rule of thumb
for charging says that a good, full, recharge would be the latter, 2.5 amps
(nice easy rate of charge) for 14 hours (not 10, since there is an inherent
inefficiency in the charge/discharge cycle).  Full load, though, is more
like 50 amps.  The original poster reported 10 minutes of charging with
the ammeter showing almost full scale ("but not in the red"), that's
probably around 50 amps.  (Depends on the ammeter, but should be at least
30 amps even in a Cessna 150...)  That's about 8 amp-hours, or about 1/3
of the battery capacity.  Should make a difference.  Should be enough to
crank a _warm_ engine...

- Moshe

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moshe Braner                          braner@emily.emba.uvm.edu
47 McGee Road, Essex, VT 05452        (802) 879-0876
From: WSD10@CCCVM.CCC.AMDAHL.COM (Chip Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: GTE DUATS Flyer (& rec.aviators)
Date: 14 Nov 92 02:40:25 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corp.

I just received the Fall, 1992 edition of the GTE DUATS Flyer, a six
page newsletter from those fine folks in Chantilly, VA.  On the front
page is a photo of their booth at Oshkosh with none other than our own
geoff@peck.com standing there in his hat-of-many-buttons.  Unfortunately,
the camera angle makes it appear that a gesticulating GTE staffer has
put her finger up his nose.  The gesticulatee is another rec.aviator who
is visible only from the back, but I recognize those loud Mondrian pants
and the panama hat.
 
So, Geoff, are you too modest to tell us why you were hanging out with
the GTE crowd?  :-)
 
-Chip-                PP-ASEL-IA
Wolf Airport (1W5)    Cessna 172A
Eldersburg, MD        N7650T
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jallred@spdg.com (John Allred)
Subject: Logging flight time:  dual and/or pic
Organization: Stratos Product Development Group (Seattle)
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:36:30 GMT

OK, so we've beaten to death the topic "when you can log Pilot In
Command Time."  (maybe we need a rec.aviation.when_to_log_pic  :-)  My
question concerns situations when you could log either PIC or dual, and which
would be more advantageous.

For example, I'm currently working on my instrument rating.  Since I'm
a private pilot (or better) and sole manipulator of the controls, I
can log PIC.  Since I am under instruction (from a CFII), I can log
dual.

Since there are PIC time requirements for higher ratings and licenses,
it would be to my advantage to log this instrument instruction time as
PIC.  However, the Designated Examiner for my checkride might want to
see dual time for instrument instruction.

I haven't seen any FAR or FSDO pronouncement on this topic, so I'd
like to hear the wisdom of the net.  What is the best thing to do?
Are PIC and Dual time considered mutually exclusive?

John Allred (jallred@spdg.com)
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Subject: Re: Public perception of general aviation
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:54:55 GMT

In article <15417@auspex-gw.auspex.com> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
writes:
> I had another pilot write me in Email a while ago, when I had suggested
> that we "saved" the coast after the earthquake, and he informed me that
> we had not helped at all.  According to this fellow the stuff that the
> airlift sent down to Watsonville basically just sat at the airport and
> was not distributed due to a lack of planning and means. Any comments?

As far as I know, this was definitely not the case.  I made several runs
each day from RHV (and, in one case, with freshly-baked bread from SQL --
mmm ...  what a smell!).  When I was down at Watsonville, most of what
came off the planes was being rapidly loaded on several trucks.  There
were both flatbed trucks and "conventional" box-type trucks being used.
One of the amusing things is that the steady stream of GA aircraft was
indeed able to deliver goods faster than the trucks could take them away!

I suspect that the perception that the goods which were flown in did
little or no good comes from two things:

(1) At first, the folks running the distribution centers in Watsonville
    did have some trouble communicating with us as to what they needed and
    what they didn't.  This was remedied the second day, and, yes, some
    fraction of the stuff which was brought to RHV by well-meaning
    individuals was either stacked or rejected, because the folks in
    Watsonville didn't need any of that type of material.

(2) There was little fanfare made at the distribution center in
    Watsonville about exactly _how_ the stuff got there.  People saw it
    coming in trucks, didn't they?  So where were the airplanes?  Out of
    sight, out of mind.  Oh, well.  Maybe we should have affixed little
    stickers to each and every object -- loaf of bread, can of beans --
    saying "brought to you by general aviation".  Maybe we should have a
    million or so of these stickers made up for next time...

I can tell you that one of the head honchos down in Watsonville personally
thanked me for the freshly-baked bread.  It was definitely needed -- and
it was all consumed that day.  They wanted more the next day, but the
bakery was closed on Sunday.  (My airplane, however, continued to smell of
freshly-baked bread for a few more days!)

						Geoff
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: aboyd@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Boyd)
Subject: Re: Public perception of general aviation
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 14:06:05 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software Systems

In article <1992Nov10.173419.12584@asns.tredydev.Unisys.COM> 
jac@asns.tredydev.Unisys.COM (Judy Cadmus) writes:
>my husband and I even used some of our wedding gift money toward maintenace
>of our airplane.  After all, you can't fly fine china, silverware, crystal

And as the old saying goes, you can live in an airplane, but you can't 
fly a house!  That's how I explain it, when people ask.
----
#include <std.disclaimer>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.answers
From: bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle)
Subject: Re: Public perception of general aviation
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering Co., NJ
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:29:25 GMT

In article <15355@auspex-gw.auspex.com> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.183610.9813@oakhill.sps.mot.com>, 
>mpaton@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Michael J Paton) writes:
>> Sounds like a good idea. I have seen reruns of Sky King in recent years.
>> I'd also like to see reruns of Whirlybirds. I think that was its name.
>> First time I ever saw helicopters or baseball caps.
>> 
>> Anyone else remember this one?
>
>I remember Whirlybirds, Sky King and Steve Canyon...
>
>not to mention one about skydivers, I forget the name.
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's ok, tom...it was "Ripcord".

(they even sold plastic "parachutists" that you put together and 
threw up in the air...:-))

Bryan D. Boyle   |opinions mine, not Exxon's...
Senior Engineer  |PVT/ASEL/IA

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: stephens@access.digex.com (John Stephens)
Subject: Re: 3 letter codes
Organization: Severn Companies, Inc., Lanham, MD 20706
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:58:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.184058.15977@cascade.Stanford.EDU> eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
>Does anybody have a list of the 3 letter airport codes?
>
>Specifically, I'd like to know where STC is....
>
>anybody?
>Thanks!
>-Eric
>

If I remember correctly there is a file available for download
from Compuserve's AVSIG forum.  I can't remember what library it
is in but, but if you have a Compuserve account, then it should
not be too hard to find.

As for STC, I can't help you, sorry.


Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 10:04:33 -0500 
From: Jeffrey Dunkle <jd5f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: radios and non-pilots

Excerpts from netnews.rec.aviation: 10-Nov-92 Re: radios and non-pilots
by Masayuki Karahashi@web-3 
> now finally my question...so now that I am stuck with it and am stuck
> on the ground since looks like I am not going to be flying anytime soon
> (at least in a plane), although I believe I will eventually be able to
> get that medical sooner or later, what can I do with it?  Can I listen
> to planes (for fun, ie, use it like a scanner) or is even turning on a 
> tranciever illegal if you are not air born?
>  
> I don't want to sell it since I believe I will be flying eventually and I
> am also contemplating gliders while I am trying to get my medical, so once
> I start gliders, it will be useful...
>  
> whatever...
>  
> ---Masayuki Karahashi
> c60c-3gi@web.berkeley.edu
> "I think its time to change major"

While technically by "listening" on your new ICOM may be considered
"operating" a radio without a license, I know of no instance where
someone's gotten in trouble for it.  Remember, a pilot's license is not
the same piece of paper needed to operate the transmitter, that's
different.  Anyway, you can learn tons by listening.  If you have a few
bucks, and have a roof top or similar location, get an outside VHF
antenna and some coax cable with the jack dangling near your favorite
easy chair.  You'll pick up lots more transmissions, maybe even an
airport tower if your in line of sight to one so you can hear both sides
of an ATC operation.

Many of the aviation supply catalogs offer these antennas and 50 ft  of
cable in a package, and you probably could get the right set up from
Radio Shack too.  VHF antennas aren't very big, given the short
wavelength of the band.

Fire your ICOM up and enjoy.....just don't transmit spurious messages to
Air Force One if it flies over.

Jeff Dunkle
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Subject: Re: Batteries & Damage Done...
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:45:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.235515.25186@cascade.Stanford.EDU> eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.211721.1600@src.honeywell.com> tima@cfsmo.honeywell.com (Timothy D Aanerud) writes:
>>An airplane is not a automobile!  Study thy pilot's handbook.
>>
>>If you hand prop an Cessna's (probably a Piper too) with a dead battery,
>>the battery will not be recharged by the alternator.
>
>An alternator  will not charge a dead battery in a car either. The 
>alternator requires field current from the battery. 
>

    IF the battery is absolutely stone cold DEAD this is true.
    BUT most batteries will have enough charge to activate solenoids or
    field current even if they are much too weak to consider
    trying to start an engine.   A sample situation is when you
    try to start your car and hear only a click.  The click is the starter
    solenoid engaging.  But as soon as the starter motor loads down 
    the battery, the voltage will drop enough to drop out the solenoid.
    You then hear a series of clicks of the solenoid.
-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.answers,news.answers
From: bishopjl@infonode.ingr.com (John L Bishop)
Subject: Re: Stay on the ground, Reba.
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:16:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.211435.27216@eecs.nwu.edu> phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.190406.14500@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, beutel@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Jim Beutel) writes:
>|> For those of you that dont listen to the daily news 
>|> reports, This past weekend in Nashville TN a private
>|> jet (lear type or small citation) with country western
>|> singer Reba MacEntyre on board made an emergency landing 
>|> with the nose gear in the up position. 
>
>Warning:  pet peeve ahead.....
>
>WHY was this such a big deal?  So the guy made an emergency landing.
>SO WHAT?  This is like pulling over to the side of an expressway because
>you have a flat.  The pilot recognized the problem, dealt with it, made
>a good landing, no one was hurt or killed.  Sounds to me like the pilot
>dealt with a mechanical failure just like he was trained to do.  So
>just WHY do people think this is news?

I agree.  Somebody else posted something to the effect that Reba apparantly
"couldn't take a hint". *sigh*  I guess that person doesn't know that after
the accident that claimed the lives of her band, she and other performers
founded an air charter service whose primary emphasis was SAFETY. 

							John 
-- 
Standard Disclaimer:  These are my comments, and not necessarily my employer's.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
John L. Bishop, Tech. Manager, Intergraph Corp.     bishop@jlb911.b17a.ingr.com
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:17246 rec.aviation.misc:603
From: randy@khan.gatech.edu (Randal T. Abler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Dead Cessna Batteries (Re: Batteries & Damage Done...)
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:48:49 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <1992Nov10.211721.1600@src.honeywell.com> tima@cfsmo.honeywell.com (Timothy D Aanerud) writes:
>An airplane is not a automobile!  Study thy pilot's handbook.
>
>If you hand prop an Cessna's (probably a Piper too) with a dead battery,
>the battery will not be recharged by the alternator.

	There are batteries with that are low on charge, and batteries
	that are truly dead.  If you can't get the panel lights to show
	(or overhead red flood light) then you have a dead battery.
	A battery that will light up some lights but doesn't have enough
	juice to turn the starter will recharge if you hand prop the plane.
	Electrically, you need enough charge to close the battery contactor
	and to excite the field in the alternator enough to produce current
	through the diodes in the alternator.
>
>If you examine the electrial system diagram for a Cessna, you will
>see battery contactor between the battery and the rest of the
>electrical system.  The battery contactor requires some electrical
>power from the battery to activate it.  (Applying power via the
>sometimes optional ground service plug receptacle will activate the
>battery contactor, btw.)

	One caveat (Cessnas), there is a fuse in this circuit.  This fuse allows
power from the alternator or ground service plug to trickle back
(through a diode and resistor) to the battery and battery contactor.
This comes into play when your battery is totally dead and you get
a jump start - allowing your battery to get charged up.  If this
fuse is blown, then a jump start with a truly dead battery will get 
ALL of your electrical system going but it will NEVER charge your battery.
The clues to this happening are
	1) increased noise in your intercomm and avionics 
	2) No indication of charge on the ammeter
This fuse is mounted in the engine compartment on the firewall, along
with the clock/hobbs meter fuse.  It is very often blown.  

I learned my lesson on this shortly after getting my private license.
I had a plane schedule to go Xcntry from Atlanta to Duluth, Mn.
The alternator belt looked pretty warn so I had a local FBO replace
the belt the day before I left.  They left the master on when they
towed the plane back out to the ramp, so I found it with a dead battery.
I made a fuss (since this shortens your battery life), got a jump
start and got on my way - everything worked fine except the intercomm
was noisy.  When I landed for fuel in Kentucky, the battery was still
very DEAD when I tried to restart.  I ended up taking the battery out
and putting it on a charger for a few hours while exploring the town
of Bowling Green.  Later that day, I looked at the electrical system
diagram since I wanted to know why the battery never recharged when 
there was electrical power.  Sure enough, the fuse was blown ...
-- 
Randal  Abler   	randy@cerl.gatech.edu		 
CERL/EE Georgia Tech     
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: geoff@hawkesbury.uws.EDU.AU (Geoff Russell)
Subject: Re: Helicopter icing
Keywords: helicopter,ifr,icing
Organization: University of Western Sydney, Hawkesbury
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:00:43 GMT


>gopal@cirrus.com (Gopal Ramachandran) writes:


>>My instructor told me this was why helos needed two pilots in IFR
>>operations. One pilot was on the controls full time, and the other
>>copied clearances, tuned radios, etc
>>       However, I believe that turbine helos have stability
>>augmentation to some degree. Presumably, one could let go of the
>>cyclic without the helo getting away from you while you were retuning
>>a radio. I wonder if they can let go of the collective/throttle
>>twist-grip as well due to a friction device as well, in order to free
>>up the other hand as well? Or are there other good reasons
>>(certification?) to not allow single-pilot IFR in such machines?

I have recently spoken with the pilot of a local emergency service 
helicopter(an MBB Bk-117 - twin turbine single rotor) who informed me that 
their operation is certified single pilot IFR although they don't always do 
it single pilot. Apparently the medical profession are ultra-nervous about
the whole thing so they don't push it.

As for letting go of the cyclic, my experience is only in piston engined 
helicopters (R22's and Bell 47 G series) and I would never let go of the 
cyclic. Collective friction will take care of the collective for short 
periods but if you're sure that your engine will never fail be my 
guest for having your hands idle, and I'll be sure not to be your 
passenger :-)  

Geoff Russell
Analyst/Programmer
University of Western Sydney, Hawkesbury
Richmond, New South Wales,
AUSTRALIA
From: pvf@alantec.com (Paul Fries)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Public perception of general aviation
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:24:22 GMT

tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:

>I remember Whirlybirds, Sky King and Steve Canyon...
>not to mention one about skydivers, I forget the name.

"Ripcord" was the name.

But that name would not be appropriate for a modern TV program.
Ripcords are virtually never used for main parachutes anymore.
The only ripcord on most rigs is for the reserve.  I don't think
I would enjoy a program that made it sound like using the reserve
was the normal thing to do :-)
-- 


	Paul Fries
	pvf@alantec.com
-- 


	Paul Fries
	pvf@alantec.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: beutel@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Jim Beutel)
Subject: Stay on the ground, Reba.
Reply-To: beutel@chdasic.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola SPS ASIC, Chandler, AZ
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:42:27 GMT


Seems that Reba MacEntyre does not want to heed
a warning..... Even several of them.

Reba, stay on the ground before anyone else gets hurt!


---
-------------------------------------------------------
Jim Beutel	

Motorola SPS ASIC            beutel@chdasic.sps.mot.com
1300 N. Alma School Rd       Computer Operations 
M/S CH290  AZ50              office:  (602) 821-4967
Chandler, Arizona 85224	     telefax: (602) 821-4963


Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.products
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: Handheld scanners (not in faq)
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:00:51 GMT

mandrews@netcom.com (Mark R Andrews) writes:
|> randy@rls.UUCP (randall l. smith) writes:
|> 
|> >I'm interested in purchasing a handheld aviation scanner and don't have
|> >alot of $$$ to burn while at the same time, don't want some el-cheapo
|> >unit that will break or require upgrading as my requirements increase.
|> 
|> I have the $140 nonamebrand scanner from Skyline 1-800-327-4568, it does
|> a pretty good job, though it's a bit fiddly to use.

I also have the nonamebrand scanner from Skyline.  They call it the
"Skyscan".  I'm happy with it.  The keypad buttons are on the small side,
making it hard to switch frequencies while driving down the road at
50 mph :-)   Putting frequently frequented frequencies in the scanning 
presets helps:  you can step thru those easily without actually activating
the scanning mode.

Nota Bene:  it only receives the aviation band (VOR frequencies included).

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>