From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 18 Aug 92 03:10:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug18.031010.14189
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug17.231434.13126@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
    >/It absolutely is *not* our responsibility to educate anyone about
    >/anything.  I suppose I should point out that I'm much more disturbed
    >/by gay homophobes than I am by the garden-variety straight phobes.
    >/And I don't feel pity for them -- I *hate* them.
    >
    >Arne, you're a whiner.

(!!!)  Someone like this is impervious to irony.

    >Not everyone who opposes your political gospel is homophobic; and you 
    >are a coward for thinking so.  

Arne, political?

    >But it's easier that way, isn't it?
    >By calling all those who disagree with you a homophobe, you can evade 
    >dealing with the *tough* questions, the questions that might
    >make you examine the things you do & say which are counterproductive
    >to your (alleged) goals.  

<Snort>  Goals?

Listen, you seem to be rather oblivious to the fear and loathing
in your articles.  Probably you should try to work this out with the
help of a good, sympathetic therapist.  But until then, it's just
rather boring AND unpleasant at the same time.  Guess what: you say
things that are worthy of a jerk, you're going to be treated like a
jerk.  Get that, "Bob"?

    >It seems that you believe in debate by sheer volume; just shout 
    >louder even if you are shouting nonsense.

OK, Mary, what do you have to say that's new?  Nothing.

    >/I was -- am -- offended by this asshole's refusal to own up to his
    >/homophobia and by his attempt to blame the uncloseted for keeping 
    >/"handsome, masculine, and closeted" gay men in the closet.  
    >Arne, whether you like it or not, it is true.  Even if you are
    >"offended" (such strong language!), that doesn't detract from the
    >truth of what I said.

My God, the stupidity here.  It leaves you speechless.
I mean, who cares?  Let these creeps fuck their buddies
after they get drunk.  No one owes them a life.

    >Because of what people like you do / say, it becomes very hard for
    >those in the closet to ever come out.  Again:  people like you
    >make coming out very difficult to do, because the precedents set 
    >are not positive ones.  

What the _fuck_ do you mean "people like you"?   And what "precedents"
are you referring to?

    >If all the prominent left-handed people I knew dyed their hair green and 
    >set their clothes on fire, I would probably stay a closet left-hander, too.

Talk about stating the obvious.

    >To illustrate:  Lt. Tracy Thorne, the naval aviator who came out on 
    >national TV (ABC News Nightline), did more for the cause of 
    >gay acceptance in America than all the leather parades & drag
    >queens will ever do.

I didn't know that leather parades were designed to foster "gay
acceptance" (something you're sorely lacking in, I might add.)
And I am sure that the last thing on a drag queen's mind is
furthering the cause of (gad, it hurts to type this again:
hey, I'll cut-and-paste with my technologically superior window
system) "gay acceptance."

    >Why?  Because he was nonthreatening, calm, reasonable, and firmly
    >believed in his rights as an individual.  People across America
    >looked at Thorne and said, "My god, he looks just like my son / my
    >neighbor / my friend."  It made America sit up and take notice.
    >Same for Col. Kammemyer; another bright, hardworking individual who
    >stated her case with conviction and calm assurance that she was
    >in the right.

Frankly, I'll take both of those two over the likes of you.
Don't sully their reputations by trying to hide underneath
Kammemyer's skirt.

    >/(And what 
    >/about the not so handsome closeted gay men?  Or the handsome but not 
    >/so masculine closet cases?)  I don't have much patience for people
    >/in the closet.  
    >That's okay, Arne; most of them have NO patience for people like you.

So?

    >/I never have had patience for them, and probably
    >/never will.  
    >That's your problem, Arne.  Don't expect a round of applause.

Does the word 'duh' mean anything to you?

    >/That's an exaggeration, of course, for there have been
    >/closeted lesbigays I *have* tried to ease ou t,but I refuse to 
    >/take responsibility for anyone's closetedness.  
    >
    >If you would just take responsibility for your own actions, that would
    >be more than enough.

Honey-bun, it's the closeted gayboys who are not taking responsibility
for their own actions, pretending to blame someone else for their wretched
lives.  Arne and the rest of us are doing just fine.  Now shoo, shoo
until you learn some manners and some logic.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer