From: s0678024@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s0678024)
Subject: Re: Getting ANY degree without being a student
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:02:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.142242.935@esseye.si.com>, harrisj@esseye.si.com (Jay Harris) writes...
>In <1992Jul16.204709.25305@mixcom.com> kevin.jessup@mixcom.mixcom.com (kevin.jessup) writes:
> 
>>In <1992Jul16.115430.9075@esseye.si.com> harrisj@esseye.si.com (Jay Harris) writes:
> 
>>>>Most EEs I work with (we design hardware and software for medical
>>>>signal and data processing applications) DO NOT have a PE.  For contracts
>>>>that require a PE's approval, we have one or two who pencil-whip signatures
>>>>without ever understanding the hardware or the software.  We do occaissionaly
>>>>have F.D.A audits of our development proceedures and we ARE doing just fine.
> 
>>>< * FLAME ON *>
> 
>>>The people who would do this should be shot, hung, drawn and quartered, and burned at the
>>>stake!!!!!  There is NO WAY that a PE should sign off on anything he doesn't understand!
>>>Granted that it is difficult to find a PE who understands such things since most are 
>>>Civil engineers, Power types, etc, but there are those of us who do.
> 
>>>< * FLAME OFF *>
> 
>>Wait!  My mistake.  I should not have said that!
> 
>>The PEs I was refering to ARE competent in digital hardware and analog.  
>>It is the SOFTWARE that they no do not understand and (in some cases) have
>>little or no experience in.  
> 
>>This gets back to an old (and as yet unresolved) discussion that occured in
>>comp.software-eng regarding software engineers/programmers requiring a license
>>and/or some form of professional certification.
> 
>>OK.  You said "There is NO WAY that a PE should sign off on anything he
>>doesn't understand!".  So how much programming and/or software engineering
>>related languages, tools, proceedures (and working experience with them)
>>do you need to get a PE?  None, I'll bet!  Then again, that may be a whole
>>new discussion brewing.  I'll just drop it.
> 
>>Anyway, thanks to all who have responded so far.  Very interesting and
>>nobody seems to have gotten too hot yet.
> 
>>-- 
>>Kevin Jessup, bbwwbb@mixcom.mixcom.com
>>"You've got to know when to code 'em, know when to load 'em, know when to
>>emulate, know when to run.  You never count your money, when your sittin' at
>>the keyboard: there'll be time enough for countin', when the software's done."
> 
>It felt good to vent the spleen anyway! :-)
> 
>One more comment on the topic before I also let it drop.
> 
>IMHO, when I sign off on a design it means that I am putting my professional
>integrity on the line.  I am indicating that the design meets its requirements.
>Again, IMHO, I cannot reasonably or ethically do this for something I do not
>understand, and as a result, would not do for something outside my experience
>( which by the way includes hardware and software, I'm fortunate).
> 
>Then again, if you can't find the people with the experience, you make do! 
> 
> 
>-- 
>N. Jay Harris      | 1. You can't win
>Smiths Industries  | 2. You can't break even
>Grand Rapids, MI   | 3. You can't quit the game
>These Opinions are mine! ALL MINE!! AH-HA-HA-HA!!