HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: NZ Semi final venues.
From: K.Spagnolo@massey.ac.nz (Ken Spagnolo)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 02:14:58 GMT
Organization: Massey University Computer Centre

In article <1992Sep25.091251.11016@waikato.ac.nz> higham@waikato.ac.nz writes:
>Concerning the semi finals to be played this weekend here, I'd like to know
>whether anyone has the word on finals venues. If Otago beats Nth Harbour, is
>the final at Carisbrook? In my mind, since Otago played Harbour and AK away,
>they should play the following fixture at home, right? If Waikato win and Otago
>win, the final should be Rugby Park, if AK and HArbour win it SHOULD be Onewa
>but I've heard they will probably go for the larger capacity of Eden Park. 

Well, as you know by now, its Otago at Waikato in the final.  I think
this is backwards.  The only systems I'm really familier with are those
in the States (so I'm culturally biased :-), but home field advantage
is always determined by the final standings of the regular season.  This
would mean that Auckland was guaranteed two games at home, Otago the
same, unless they played Auckland, Nth Harbour would play at home only
against Waikato, and Waikato would always travel.  This seems only fair.
There should be some advantage to finishing the regular season better
than the next team (other than first playing forth and second playing
third in the semis, which is correct, imho).  So Otago have earned the
the right to play in front of the best supporters in the country at
Carisbrook!

Cheers,
-- 
Ken Spagnolo - Ph: +64-6-350-5160
Systems Programmer, Network Support, Usenet Admin, etc.
From: mae@aber.ac.uk (Mark Endaf Edwards)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Two Transvaal games in Wales
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:02:57 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

Currie Cup finalists Transvaal are due to play two matches in Wales
as part of a three match tour of Britain, it was announced in today's
(October 1) Western Mail.
Tour dates are:
November 13: Gloucester
Nov 16: Bridgend
Nov 20: Newport.
Tour organiser Mike Burton stated "It will be interesting to see
how the standard of British club rugby compares with the standard
of the second best provincial side in South Africa."
The Welsh Rugby Union have yet to give the go-ahead for the Bridgend
and Newport games, but this should not be a problem as they have 
sanctioned tours by the SA Barbarians and SA club side Luguina.
The Transvaal side will be weakened by the absence of several leading
players on the Springbok tour of France and England, but should win all
three games. All three teams have struggled in the Courage and Heineken
Leagues this season, and Bridgend and Newport were destroyed 53-15 and 
79-10 respectively by Llanelli.

Cheers
Endaf
*************
Endaf Edwards
Institute of Earth Studies
University of Wales
Aberystwyth SY23 3DB
Wales
From: cjp@aber.ac.uk (C J Price)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Wales XV to play Italy
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:33:23 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., UCW Aberystwyth

Tom Higham writes:
|I agree, I thought the Welsh would leap at the chance of chalking up another
|test win, I mean, it must be the 70's since they had a hattrick of wins :^)
|(Please note smiley here, no offence intended!) 

It wouldn't be offensive if it were nearly true.
Wales haven't been appalling for as long as that (bad, but not
appalling).

My guess is that the last time Wales won 3 tests in a row was 1987 -
the year they last won the triple crown. I believe that the
unfortunate loss to France was the final game of the year, but even if
it wasn't, then there might well have been a win just before or after
- they did go on to achieve 3rd in that world cup.

|Hear, hear, the Welsh still inhabit that fairy land wherein they are among the
|top 5-6 teams in the world. Clearly, they are back in Div 3. 

Assuming that you have at least 4 teams in each division (any less
would not be much of a division), then my analysis is that Wales can
claim to be division 2 material again.

Oz, NZ, England are Div 1. They hve all shown themselves capable of
consistently beating the next level of team (Springboks may slot in
here *real soon now*, so lets put them there for argument's sake).

On last season's results (including both the World Cup and other
matches) France, Scotland, Wales are all division 2, and I'll let you
argue who else goes in there.... 

Cheers,

Chris Price.




--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Price, Department of Computer Science, University College of Wales,
             Aberystwyth, Dyfed, SY23 3BZ, United Kingdom.
email: cjp@uk.ac.aber (within UK) cjp@aber.ac.uk (rest of world?)
Telephone: 0970-622444
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: .nohost.nodomain ()
Subject: RUGBY TEAMS IN LOS ANGELES
Reply-To: pete@vscn18.nohost.nodomain ()
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:21:35 GMT


  
    I WILL SOON BE MOVING TO THE LOS ANGELES AND AM INTERESTED IN PLAYING 
RUGBY WHILE THERE. COULD SOMEONE PLEASE POST SOME ADDRESSES OF TEAMS IN THE 
L.A. AREA.

       THANKS
From: sarge@cs.uq.oz.au (The Lemming)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Richard Loe
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:10:27 GMT
Reply-To: sarge@cs.uq.oz.au


As expected, Australian TV certainly highlighted Loe's involvement in
the final game. The score wasnt mentioned on the news, but several replays
of

a) Loe's stomping of Nasswe

b) Loe's late elbow which broke Carozzas nose

and then

c) 2 replays including a slow motion of the gouging incidece. 

From what I can tell, it looked deliberate. Loe seemed to be very intent
on what he was doing (looking straight at the face as he gouged it). 
I think he is asking for a long long suspension if you ask me. 

The Lemming
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leap before you look.                      sarge@cs.uq.oz.au
The Lemming.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: piij@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mr ID Jennings)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Springboks in France - news please.
Date: 4 Oct 92 08:51:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: hippo.1992Oct4.085158.5879
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

In <a2824ag.717940168@sunmanager> a2824ag@sunmanager.LRZ-Muenchen.DE (Riaan de Jager) writes:

>Hi there

>Could someone in France please post some info on their doings in France?
>Also, I heard that the french minister of sports said something about
>there being no black players in the squad. Any comments etc.?

>Thanks.
>(May the worst team loose!)
>-- 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|  Riaan de Jager           a2824ag@sunmanager.lrz-muenchen.de              | 
>|  Leibniz Rechenzentrum    jager@informatik.tu-muenchen.de    |         /  | 
>|  Barer Strasse 21 8000    Tel +49 89 2105 7402                \    *  /   | 
>|  Muenchen 2                                                    \     /    |
>|  Germany             - Supporter of the Green and Gold -        ;___/     |


As you've probably read elsewhere by now, the Boks lost the opening game
24-17.  Their opponents were a French youth team known as the "Espoirs",
which, from the reports I read (South African Sunday Times) were quite
strong - the team included seven players with interntational experience.

The Espoits scored two tries, one in each half, and the Boks one, by
Drikus Hattingh after a scrum near the Espoirs line.  Match reports were
not comforting (from a South African perspective).  Apparently we were
outplayed at both forward - much in the same way that the All Blacks and
Wallabies did last month - and, more disturbingly, at back at well,
where the unpredictability of the French backs was more than we could
handle.

Perhaps there is not too much cause for pessimism, given that this was
the opening tour match and things are bound to improve, but what does
concern me is that 1) the Boks are an old team and the French are young
- ie the immediate future looks even worse for us than the current state
of affairs, and 2) that until our selectors/coaches realise that
mobility and co-ordination at forward are what wins matches in today's
international scene, we will continually be shown up in this regard.
The lesson clearly has not been learned.> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Ian Jennings
Philosophy Department
Rhodes University
Grahamstown 6140
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Waikato wins Division 1 final.
Date: 5 Oct 92 09:22:08 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

Waikato won the National first division championship final at Rugby Park,
Hamilton yesterday by 40-5 over Otago, the defenders. It was an awesome power
display by the mooloo men, they were simply unstoppable, led by a pack of
inspired forwards any one of whom could be given man of the match. Duane
Monkley was everywhere, Richard Loe, Graham Purvis, Brent Anderson, Richard
Jerram, Warren Gatland, captain John Mitchell and jumper Steve Gordon were a
superb unit. They would have beaten any team on the field I reckon. The backs
were also mighty; especially Foster and Crabb and the resurgent Strawbridge at
fullback. It was a quite humiliating defeat for Otago, who knew that to win
they had to gain forward equality and some ball. Any chance of that disappeared
after the first scrum where the Waikato pack marched them off at their own
put-in. 
The result was in sense predictable because the Otago-Waikato matches seem
always to go with venue. Three weeks ago on Carisbrook the Otago team inflicted
a 20 pointer on Waikato. Yesterday the boot was firmly on the other foot. 
Overall, the new championship was a resounding success however, there are still
some areas which need to be looked at. First, the possibility of introducing a
life for teams which finish top of the round robin. Auckland in this case 'won'
the rounds and lost on the basis of one game. In the Winfield cup, the minor
premiers have a life which may suit the NZ competition too. Second, venue. It
is apparent that venue is crucial. Otago were uphill on Sunday purely because
of the away rule and the parochial crowd. A recent poster mentioned that in
North America, the higher ranked team gets to play at home. This seems a good
idea. It is unfortunate that NZ lacks a Wembley stadium or Sydney Football
Stadium; a neutral final ground. It is difficult to win away from home.
For the time being however, hats off to Waikato. They beat Auckland and Otago
in a week and justifiably deserve to be national champions. The overly forward
oriented game was cleverly replaced with a more open 15 man game, which gave
them a platform to attack with. No major stars, but a brilliant team effort. 
-- 
Tom Higham,                    
Radiocarbon Dating Lab,
University of Waikato,
Hamilton,
NEW ZEALAND.
Higham@waikato.ac.nz /
C14@waikato.ac.nz
From: smaad@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr A Davies 92)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Wales XV to play Italy
Date: 2 Oct 92 13:56:21 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

In article <1992Oct2.092602.11179@waikato.ac.nz> higham@waikato.ac.nz writes:
|In article <1992Oct1.102906.994@massey.ac.nz>, R.D.Lynn@massey.ac.nz (R.D. Lynn) writes:
|> In article: <1992Sep30.104758.16577@aber.ac.uk> mae@aber.ac.uk
|> (Mark Endaf Edwards) writes:
|> 
|>>WALES XV v ITALY (October 7, Cardiff)
|> ---------      
|> Why is it only Wales XV? Surely after Wales' lack of success in the test arena
|> for a number of seasons, the Welsh RFU should be only glad to chalk up another
|> test win, or is it that they're scared of yet another test loss! :-)
|> 
|> Seriously though, I feel this rather a slight on Italian rugby, which 
|> shouldn't occur. Firstly, Italian rugby is on the rise with the national team 
|> putting up some creditable performances during the last world cup. Secondly,
|> Wales has given caps for games against much lesser rugby nations, such as
|> The USA and Namibia (where Wales almost loss). So why the change now? The
|> team as picked IS the TEST side. So make it official.
|>  
|Hear, hear, the Welsh still inhabit that fairy land wherein they are among the
|top 5-6 teams in the world. Clearly, they are back in Div 3. The decision to
|make it a "welsh XV" is a slap in the face to the Italians who are not bad at
|all. I remember when the AB's toured the UK in the early 70's (73?) and played
|Ireland, a Welsh XV and the Barbarians in 10 days. The Welsh XV was Wales pure
|and simple, it was just a way of saving face in the event of a loss and making
|a bonus "oh and it was only a welsh XV, imagine what the national team would
|do" in the event of a win. Can't see the point really.
|I agree, I thought the Welsh would leap at the chance of chalking up another
|test win, I mean, it must be the 70's since they had a hattrick of wins :^)
|(Please note smiley here, no offence intended!) 
|

WRU's reason for not awarding caps for this game, is because it was only
organised at the last minute.

After last season's 5 Nations Championship form, Wales are back in the
top 8. They won against Ireland and Scotland, so are they also in div 3
? and who's in div 2 ??  We'll just have to wait and see what now
happens this season.

|-- 
|Tom Higham,                    
|Radiocarbon Dating Lab,
|University of Waikato,
|Hamilton,
|NEW ZEALAND.
|Higham@waikato.ac.nz /
|C14@waikato.ac.nz


Adrian.
___
smaad@thor.cf.ac.uk
From: s8923098@macgraw.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Richard Loe
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:16:12 GMT
Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics

In article <10519@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> sarge@cs.uq.oz.au writes:

...[Richard Loe's foul play on Oz TV]....
|
|From what I can tell, it looked deliberate. Loe seemed to be very intent
|on what he was doing (looking straight at the face as he gouged it). 
|I think he is asking for a long long suspension if you ask me. 
|

Careful, mate! You are going to be inundated with flames from Kiwis
everywhere. And if AB's coach has net access, he will accuse you of
personall vendetta against Loe. 
 
--
 _________Josef Widjaja____________  
|  s8923098@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au  |
|  Macquarie University, Australia | 
|__________________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: The NZ final - a P.S.
From: wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:27:50 GMT
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Canterbury

Three P.S.s ,  actually.

(i) If, as Andy Bond and our local paper both say, Richard Loe did deliberately
gouge Otago fullback Cooper's eye, (which may result in permanently impaired
vision according to the paper), then I heartily join in the Australian baying
for blood that has followed him.    I didn't see it myself, but I hope the
video evidence is checked carefully; and if it turns out that he was guilty,
then I suggest a lifetime ban would be appropriate, (if not criminal prosecution).

(ii) As some earlier poster said, one of the most amusing things about this
game was the moaning by the two Auckland teams about how they didn't want to
play the final on Sunday !   (Would have interfered with their overseas earnings).
Distinctly premature; and certainly worth a snigger or two!

North Harbour were unlucky; but Auckland can (in retrospect) largely blame
their home crowd who miserably failed to turn out to inspire their team.

(iii) Mention should be made of referee Dave Bishop's excellent handling of
final. We all like to moan at refs, me as much as anyone; so when one
does a good job it should be well applauded.    He kept fiery spirits under
control; he kept the game flowing; and I don't think he made a single wrong
decision all day, which alone is an incredible feat, seemingly.

Three cheers for the ref, who must surely have earned his place ahead of
Clive Norling and Sandy MacNeil as the world's top.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Bill Taylor              wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Committee - a group of men who individually do nothing,
               but collectively decide that nothing can be done.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby

I read yesterday that the England v Canada game at Wembley on the 17th Oct
has only had 10,000 tickets sold.  The capacity of the ground is 78,000.
(Source: Ceefax)

Doesn't seem a very good turnout so far and tickets must still be available
through the Wembley box office Tel. 081 900 1234.  This is different to the
usual ticket allocation method, which is by the RFU through the clubs.

Graham
grahamc@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com
From: fischer@greco-prog.fr (Francois Fischer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Springboks
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:46:28 GMT
Reply-To: arrakis@hugo.int-evry.fr
Organization: Greco Programmation du CNRS

In article <01GPEO291ATC000ECP@JHMAIL.HCF.JHU.EDU> tratnana@eureka-gold.wbme.jhu.edu (Tilak Ratnanather) writes:
>Est-ce que l'equipe 'Springboks' sont arrives? Je pense
>les Springboks joueront le match premier le samedi prochaine!
>
>What news of the first and official Springbok tour of Europe
>for 23 years?
>
>Thanks
>
>Tilak Ratnanather       Internet: tratnana@eureka-gold.wbme.jhu.edu

Springboks lose 24-17 last saturday against a french selection who wasn't
the XV de france,composed mostly of young players and few older like
Frank Mesnel.
Springboks  didn't play very well.The french commentator said they were
the shadow  of the springboks ten years ago.

Les springboks ont perdu face a une selection francaise par 24-17,samedi
dernier.La selection francaise n'etait pas le XV de france,mais une 
equipe composee surtout de jeunes espoirs et de qq vieux comme Frank Mesnel.
Les springboks n'ont pas joue tres bien.Surtout en defense dans les grands
espaces,ou les francais ont faits la diference.
Un probleme d'adaptation avec les nouvelles regles peutetres.
Le commentateur les a definis comme l'ombre des springboks d'il y a 10ans,
avant leur isolement force.


                               Nicolas Hurisse (arrakis@hugo.int-evry.fr)
From: sma@waikato.ac.nz (Stephen Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: NZ Championship Format
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:46:34 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Oct5.144057.11233@waikato.ac.nz>, rel@waikato.ac.nz writes:
> I think that the first division should be merged with the top half of the
> second division and thus creating two larger divisions. The basis of this is
> that there are a number of second division sides (Counties, Manawatu, Bay of
> Plenty, Southland, and of course Taranaki) who are playing rugby good enough to
> be in the first division and would easily give North Auckland, Hawkes Bay, King
> Country a damn good run for their money. North Auckland were very unlucky to be demoted to
> second division and if there was a "super league" the rugby would be very
> exciting and close between all the teams. Same can be said between the bottom
> half of the second division and the top of the third division.
The problem with this idea is that it increases the number of games played in
an already packed national programme.  A better idea, I think, is that of meger
a number of unions to create a single division of 10 - 12 teams.  This would
allow strong players to get top exposure without having to resort to changing
unions.


Stephen..
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Blow to the Broncos chances
From: imf@datamark.co.nz (Ian Franklin)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 00:58:08 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <1992Sep25.042416.24383@massey.ac.nz> H.Edwards@massey.ac.nz (H. Edwards) writes:
>In article <1992Sep24.232127.19678@cs.su.oz.au> allanc@cs.su.oz.au
>(Restless Wanderer) writes re the Winfield cup final between the Broncos
>and the Saints:
>
>You do have a point however. In the NZ rugby competition all three divisions
>are this year having a semi-final/final competition between the top four teams
>to determine the divisional champions instead of awarding it to the team
>with most points.  Whilst I for one would not shed too many tears if
>Auckland were to be beaten (or if Manawatu were to beat Taranaki!), it
>would seem unfair in each case for the clearly superior team to be knocked
>out on the basis of one rare off-day.  And the Winfield cup format does
>have some advantages over the standard "semis followed by final" format.
>The 2nd to 5th placed teams get one or two chances to prove their worthiness
>to take on the 1st place team, and so the final is essentially between the
>best on total points and the best of the rest (both in terms of scoring well
>in the initial rounds and in being able to beat other good teams consistently).
>
>Anyone else have any opinions on this?  Also, does anyone know why the NZ
>national championship rules were changed to the semis/final format this year?
>Demands from unions?  Better TV contracts perhaps?
>

It adds another dimension ton the season. The sudden death playoff
where  a team must perform to win gives the games a definite edge to
them. There should be an award at the end of the round robin and
another at the end of the finals. I think the format was adopted to
counter the popularity of rugby league ( or thats what I read in a
newspaper articile).
-- 
Ian Franklin       | imf@datamark.co.nz | +64-4-233-8186 (work) |
Datamark Intl Ltd  |--------------------------------------------|
Wellington         | I drink to make other people intresting    |
New Zealand        |                    - George Jean Nathan    |