HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Serdar's admirer!!! (Re: Merry Christmas, Argic)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 08:47:22 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Hilmi Eren writes:

 
    If you really think so, then where is *your* argumentation? 
    I forgot, as usual you have none, please don't waste your time
    to write stupid things  like :"WOW, and ^H^H^H^H^..... 
    If you have the least sensible thing to say then i'm listening, else  
    you should SHUT up too.
 
I bet you have a lot of respect for someone that does not listen to   
arguments (argumentation? ouch!), does not even have the arxidia to 
post under his own name, has violated every rule on Usenet, has forged
articles for MONTHS, has made libel accusations on the net, uses a program
to respond to irrelevant articles, etc.
 
So, Mr/Ms Eren, please refute at least ONE of the argumentation (ouch!) 
I presented above. ONE will be enough. Extra credit for more than one.
 
Regards,
 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
(Self appointed Mutlu historian)
--
              ___        _____________________________
             |  o\__    | Ne mutlu anti-Argic diyene? | Beef: Real Food 
}}            \  __/ ___| Ne mutlu anti-Mutlu diyene! |       for Real People
}}}    ____   / /    \          (Old Turkish Proverb) |
}}}}__/}}}}\_/ /      \_______________________________| Feathers: Real Clothes
}}/  }}}}}}    \                                               for real Chicken
  \   }}}}   }}/                                              
   \__ }}____}/        Spiros Triantafyllopoulos        
      \ /              c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com    
       |/_                                               
       '\               
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Subject: Re: W/E News
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:25:09 GMT

In article <92Dec21.191452est.48032@neat.cs.toronto.edu> ccc@cs.toronto.edu ("Christina C. Christara") writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.121522@imhfhp16.epfl.ch> gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis) writes:
>>
>>
>>A collection of stories from the weekend press :
>>
>[text deleted]
>>
>><<Greece, New identity card mentions the relegion : Greece, an
>>Orthodox nation, will, in 1993, be the only country in the EC to
>>impose on its citizens to write their relegion on their idenity
>
>Too bad.


 I disagree with this statement. Greece is the only EC country
 which neighbors to a non-Christian country. And this creates
 a lot of political friction.

 In any case; when I was in the military, half of the poeple didn't
 fill up this specific entry; It is not "imposed", as the propaganda
 (misinforming article) says, it merely gives the opportunity for
 someone who wants to enter it. Usually, the first name was sufficient to 
 distinguish religion. There were some cases of naturalized greeks of
 arab and persian origin which did create some ambiquities though. Any-
 way; they were few. And the Jews, is well known, use mostly first names 
 from the place where they live, so they blend very well; (It happened
 to know a jewish greek who was selected officer when I was).


 Gr
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ls1@cec1.wustl.edu (Lambros Skartsis)
Subject: Re: Pronounciation of Greek names...
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:26:34 GMT

In article: <BznswK.HGC@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>
cla02@keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace) writes:

>R. Wallace (cla02@keele.ac.uk) wrote (answering to me):
>: 
>: Anyway, none of this is relevant, because they did use a version of the
>: Chalcidian alphabet in Cumae. I think the Chalcidian alphabet is
>: classified as a Western alphabet, isn't it? Perhaps somebody in this
>: group who can get to their university library without a long walk in the
>: freezing cold might check in one of the standard works on the Greek
>: alphabet (hint!). 
>: 
>: Richard Wallace
>
>OK, I've gone myself! It was pretty cold, too.
>
>Yes, I was right (natch). Chalcidian is a Western alphabet; the term of
>course isn't really geopgraphic, except I suppose originally.
>
>Try David Diringers 'The Alphabet' (3rd edition I think) for more.
>
>Richard Wallace



Thanks a lot, anyway. And yes, I was wondering, because I was seing
"west" and "east" aplhabet versions in reference to greek gepgraphy.
Indeed, the terminology might simply indicate origins - different
from the "eventual" geographic locations. It could also, possibly,
be due to the consideration of the greek peninsula as the "west" area
and Asia Minor as "east". 

Best regards,
L. Skartsis

P.S. I apologize for - possibly - unaswered private e-mails; I "lost"
my account for a couple of days!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Subject: Re: W/E News
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:38:04 GMT


In article <92Dec21.191452est.48032@neat.cs.toronto.edu> ccc@cs.toronto.edu ("Christina C. Christara") writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.121522@imhfhp16.epfl.ch> gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis) writes:
>>
>>
>>A collection of stories from the weekend press :
>>
>[text deleted]
>>
>><<Greece, New identity card mentions the relegion : Greece, an
>>Orthodox nation, will, in 1993, be the only country in the EC to
>>impose on its citizens to write their relegion on their idenity
>
>Too bad.


 I disagree with this statement. Greece is the only EC country
 which neighbors to a non-Christian country. And this creates
 a lot of political friction.

 In any case; when I was in the military, half of the people didn't
 fill up this specific entry; It is not "imposed", as the propaganda
 (misinforming article) says, it merely gives the opportunity for
 someone who wants to enter it. Usually, the first name was sufficient to 
 distinguish religion. There were some cases of naturalized greeks of
 arab and persian origin which did create some ambiquities though. Any-
 way; they were few. And the Jews, is well known, use mostly first names 
 from the place where they live, so they blend very well; (It happened
 to know a jewish greek who was selected officer when I was serving).


 Gr

PS: Since 1982 the "social background information sheet" for the military
    was totally stopped (pistopoihtiko koinwnikwn fronhmatwn); and the
    only social factor kept was religion.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: hilmi-er@andy.enet.dec.com (Hilmi Eren)
Subject: Re: Serdar's admirer!!! (Re: Merry Christmas, Argic)
Reply-To: hilmi-er@andy.enet.dec.com (Hilmi Eren)
Organization: Stockholm University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 11:22:07 GMT




|>Spiros Triantafyllopoulos writes
 
|>I bet you have a lot of respect for someone that does not listen to   
|>arguments (argumentation? ouch!), does not even have the arxidia to 
|>post under his own name, has violated every rule on Usenet, has forged
|>articles for MONTHS, has made libel accusations on the net, uses a program
|>to respond to irrelevant articles, etc.
|> 
|>So, Mr/Ms Eren, please refute at least ONE of the argumentation (ouch!) 
|>I presented above. ONE will be enough. Extra credit for more than one.
|> 
|>Regards,
|> 
|>Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
|>(Self appointed Mutlu historian)
|>--
|>              ___        _____________________________
|>             |  o\__    | Ne mutlu anti-Argic diyene? | Beef: Real Food 
|>}}            \  __/ ___| Ne mutlu anti-Mutlu diyene! |       for Real People
|>}}}    ____   / /    \          (Old Turkish Proverb) |
|>}}}}__/}}}}\_/ /      \_______________________________| Feathers: Real Clothes
|>}}/  }}}}}}    \                                               for real Chicken
|>  \   }}}}   }}/                                              
|>   \__ }}____}/        Spiros Triantafyllopoulos        
|>      \ /              c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com    
|>       |/_                                               
|>       '\               
|>


Look whos talking about argumentation? A person that
have make himself and the "soc.cult.greek" neurotic when
he hears the word "macedonian-not-greek". A person whos
only argumentation is pasting "chicken" pictures to the net (see above)...
Read *your* articles again  instead of making a fool of youself!






Hilmi Eren
Stockholm University
Sweden
From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Subject: Re: Re : Macedonian Nationality
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:02:46 GMT

In article <BznMM0.H3I@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:


                  :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))


>Merry Christmas
>
>Andy


 Merry X-mas Andy!
                   We try to be good with all during these holly days!


 Gr
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: deltah@ccs.northeastern.edu (Hariklia Delta)
Subject: Re: Continuation on CYPRUS, ENOSIS, EOKA, PALIKARIA
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 04:26:15 GMT


Okan Baysan writes:
>Just try to swallow the independent Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
>fact, and get back into your cage.

Yes, I agree with you that TRNC is a fact. A fact that only Turkey accepts!
But I don't believe that it is independent. As far as the "get back into 
your cage" part, well, not everyone has the same kind of accommodation as you
have :-). (Sorry, it was too hard to resist!)


                                                      ---  Xapa


Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: : Macedonian Nationality
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:01:50 GMT

cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:

>Why not try sharing something which clearly you can't steal just for
>yourself? That way we could all be happy - it is the season of good will
>you know.

 Yes, why not sharing some land too? After all, "Greece occupies Macedonia",
 which "has never been Greek."  Fine points, of course, for a pseudo-historian
 who keeps prostituting history.

>Merry Christmas
>Andy

 Likewise,

 Panos.
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: How typical (and pathetic) are the sources Skopjians use
Date: 2 Jan 93 20:49:25 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

Michael Polymenakos (michael.polymenakos@factory.com) writes:
>>So dismiss the source if you like. (But I don't find your arguments
>>convincing at all.) Now, tell us what's wrong with the French 1900
>>encyclopedia which says the same as the Italian one.
>
> In 1900, your description of Macedonia would have been accurate,
>because Macedonians were living in great numbers across Vardar and
>Pirin. In many cities of today's Vardar and Buglaria (like Bitola
>(Monastiri) and Plondiv (Phillipoupolis)) Greeks outnumbered Slavs by a
>wide margin. There were sizable Greek communities as north as Kosovo.

So if the geographical region of Macedonia covered today's Repulic
of Macedonia in 1900, isn't likely to have done so in 1930 and likely
to do so in 1993 too? Geographical regions tends to be constant over
time.

You seem to equate "Macedonians" = "Greek" in the above paragraph.
But when Goce Delchev said "Macedonia for the Macedonians" do you
think he only meant the Greeks?

>Can Poland name itself "Prussia"?

Well, if some Germans could call a duchy of theirs after another
people, why not Poland?

>Can Vardar name itself "Macedonia"?

Can a river call itself anything?

And apparently Azerbaijan can call itself Azerbaijan.

> You are talking about "hellenization" of Slavophones in Greece.
>...

Sorry, you are confusing me with someone else. This is a topic which
I have said very little, if anything at all, about.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Jag gav en k{ck tjeck en check.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ikdiplas@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de (Konstantin Diplas)
Subject: Re : Macedonian Nationality
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 13:11:36 GMT
Organization: Universitaet Bielefeld, Technische Fakultaet.

=========================================================================
                                         
From: sachz@montebello.ecom.unimelb.EDU.AU (SAS)
Subject: On Macedonian Nationality
Organization: Dept. Engineering Computer Resources, Melbourne Uni.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:26:36 GMT


Slavic Review, Winter 1986
Horace G. Lunt
==========================================================================
                                        ^
I don't know who's that fucking bastard |

 I wanna tell you something :

 It does not exists a Macedonian Nationality.
 I am greek and I was born in the place which called Macedonian ok!
 

 Your " Macedonian Nationality " are only stupid slavian poeple.

 Read a little bit history and you gonna see the true ==>
  Macedonian is greek.



 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: tpd1@cec1.wustl.edu (Theodore P. David)
Subject: Re: continuation on Cyprus, ENOSIS (union of Cyprus with Greece)
Keywords: EOKA, ENOSIS, PALIKARIA
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:02:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.020108.8053@en.ecn.purdue.edu> baysan@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Okan Baysan) writes:
>In article <199212190522.AA18077@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
> 
>>You keep speaking about ENOSIS. How'bout the TRNC's desire to unite
>>with Turkiye.
>
>Just show me a single documented proof that the Turkish Republic of 
>Northern Cyprus has such desires. Enosis (union of Cyprus with Greece
>is a well known and well established fact that forms the roots of the
>Cyprus issue.
>
	Okan, show me "a single documented proof" that the Rebublic of Cyprus
has enosis desires. Make sure it's official though.

>>What I point out here is that the Greek Cypriots I met had no illusions, 
>>dreams of enosis, or megali idea in their (well planted) heads. They were
>>Greek Cypriots, not Greeks. 
>
>You cannot distort the facts by just pointing out the opinion of a few
>Greek Cypriots. Just listen to their elected leaders who represent 
>their opinion and you will be all set.
>
	Give me the name of ONE, (only one) elected leader since 1974, who
says what you are putting in their mouth.
>
>the Turkish Cypriot people, recognise their independence and sovereignty,
>and allow them to live free from fear and Enosis nightmares forever. 
					  ^^^^^^^
	So the key here is "enosis". I see why the Turkish propaganda is
doing so well: it starts from its own people. Wake up, Okan (and Besime).
Next time you go to Cyprus, just make a visit to the free part of Cyprus,
(you see you are allowd to go wherever you want, as citizens of Cyprus),
and find out for yourself what is realy going on.
 
>>
>>Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
>>
>
>Cheers,
>Okan Baysan

Theodore David
From: hilmi-er@andy.enet.dec.com (Hilmi Eren)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Serdar's admirer!!! (Re: Merry Christmas, Argic)
Date: 23 Dec 92 11:44:21 GMT
Reply-To: hilmi-er@andy.enet.dec.com (Hilmi Eren)
Organization: Stockholm University



|>
|>c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
|>
|>>Hilmi Eren writes:
|>
|>> 
|>>    If you really think so, then where is *your* argumentation? 
|>>    I forgot, as usual you have none, please don't waste your time
|>>    to write stupid things  like :"WOW, and ^H^H^H^H^..... 
|>>    If you have the least sensible thing to say then i'm listening, else  
|>>    you should SHUT up too.
|>> 
|>>I bet you have a lot of respect for someone that does not listen to   
|>>arguments (argumentation? ouch!), does not even have the arxidia to 
|>>post under his own name, has violated every rule on Usenet, has forged
|>>articles for MONTHS, has made libel accusations on the net, uses a program
|>>to respond to irrelevant articles, etc.
|>> 
|>  I bet she does have a lot of respect for Arxid.  After all, this is the
|>  so called pezeveng rationale. You "take it or leave it." 

	 + And swearing is Panos's argumentation...(pezeveng=pimp,ponce)...
	 + This net doesn't need that either....

|>>Regards,
|>> 
|>>Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
|>>(Self appointed Mutlu historian)
|>
|> Merry Christmas,
|>
|> Panos
|>

	+Hilmi Eren
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: How typical (and pathetic) are the sources that they use
Date: 28 Dec 92 11:08:18 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

Michael Polymenakos (michael.polymenakos@factory.com) writes:
> Considering who was in charge of Italy in the 1930's, what his
>territorial ambitions where, and what his attitude was towards freedom
>of the press, I would not be suprised if _every_ Italian encyclopaedia
>from the 1930's has the exact same map.
>
> How typical of the defenders of Skopjian interests to base their
>case on sources originating from totalitarian regimes (Tito, Mussolini,
>the pro-hitler regime of WWII Bulgaria, Nazism's prophet Falmerrayer,
>etc.)

No doubt who is pathetic here. Why should Mussolini dictate a certain
form of Macedonia on the map? Macedonia was not a hot issue in those
days. And "any encyclopedia", let me just tell you that encyclopedias
are not those you crank out 13 on the dozen of. Encyclopedia Italiana
is a full-size encyclopedia in 30 books or so.

Still, if you don't like it, I encourage you to try the French La Grande
Encyclopedie, which is from 1900. LGE offers no map, but its verbal
description is largely consistent with the Italian map.

The point with these description is not to prove anything, except to
refute Greek propaganda like "there is not pre-1940 source including
Skopje in Macedonia".
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Jag gav en k{ck tjeck en check.
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: continuation on Cyprus
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:55:20 GMT

cza@troy.cc.bellcore.com (e and ) writes:

>You see if everybody acts properly, there would be no problem for the 
>communications in good taste.  Since you are breaking new grounds 
>everyday in the name of combating with Argic, Besime, Baysan, etc. by 
>getting more and more personal, I decided to handle a king of palik 
>from the state of Illinois, who constantly desires picking a bone 
>with me and the rest of the Turks.     

 Pezevengs know how to act properly, right?  And they have good taste too.
 Unfortunatelly, their intelectual level is so low, that they think they
 can invade one country, rape, kill, perform ethnic cleansing, grasp 40%
 of the territory, create 200,000 refugees, and bring thousands of settlers
 from "mother" Turkey. Then, they expect the refugees to "take it or leave it,"
 or to "soak their head for a change."

 This is the so called pezeveng rationale. It's "proper" and "tastefull."

 I guess, we have to "take it or leave it," right?

>>C. Akgun

 Panos Tamamidis
 "A king of palik from the state of Illinois"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: tpd1@cec2.wustl.edu (Theodore P. David)
Subject: Serbia - 1992, Turkey - 1974 (was Re: Continuation on CYPRUS)
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:00:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.181444.8396@en.ecn.purdue.edu> baysan@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Okan Baysan) writes:
>In article <BzJCJ0.Ey3@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:
>>
>> Yes, we know. It is so noble for the Turks to kill and rape and perform
>> ethnic cleansing.  Everything that suits turkish dreams is noble.  
>> Hypocrite !!
>
>Liar! Turks have never attempted ethnic cleansing in Cyprus, bozo! It was

	If making refugees 40% of a country's population and occupying their
land and property, is not ethnic cleansing, then what is ? I mean sit back
for a while and see how clear it is:
1974:  Turkey invates Cyprus to "protect" the Turkish-Cypriot minority.
	18 years later, and after so many UN resolutions calling for Turkey to
	withdraw her troops, 40% of Cyprus is still illegaly occupied by
	Turkey.
1991:  Serbia backs up the Bosnian-Serbs,invates if you like, Bosnia to 
	"protect" the Bosnian-Serbs. How many UN resolutions have been 
	there pressing sanctions to Serbia to withdraw from Bosnia? Will they
	work ? I don't think so.

What's the tragic irony here?  Turkey keeps shouting for more sanctions against
Serbia until Serbia withdraw from Bosnia. Isn't that a crazy world?
	 
>Cheers,
>Okan Baysan
>
Theodore P. David

Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11876 soc.culture.yugoslavia:10268 soc.culture.europe:10805
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: The map of Macedonia in the 19th century.
Date: 26 Dec 92 11:09:25 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

Milan Pavlovic (pavlovic-milan@yale.edu) writes:
>  I found a couple magazines from the 19th century which have articles about
>Macedonia and Southern Serbia.  One of them has a fine map, in color, which
>clearly denotes the border between Macedonia and Southern Serbia.
>
>  It was published in the magazine "Brastvo" in Belgrade, in 1887.   Below,
>the stars ***** represent the borders of Macedonia as drawn by Milojko V.
>Veselinovic in 1887.  So according to this map, only the towns along the line
>Bitolj-Strumica are a part of Macedonia (I marked them both with O on the map).
>What is that, 5-10 % of today's ex-Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia?

And I can point you to a map from an Italian encyclopedica from around
1930 where not only the entire present-day Republic of Macedonia is in-
cluded in their delineation of Macedonia, but also a slice of what is 
Kosovo today. (Or, tragically, what used to be Kosovo.)

Most pre-WWII sources seems to be agree with this definition. (Which
curiously does not include all of the present-day Greek province of
Macedonia.)
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Jag gav en k{ck tjeck en check.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek