HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joshuali@usc.edu (Joshua Ling)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: AUCTION #2:UPDATE #3
Date: 14 Sep 1992 19:23:07 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun117.usc.edu

It doesn`t look like my last post made it. Here it is again:


The current bids are:

        C-3PO w/ removable limbs #8  $25
        C-3PO w/ removable limbs #1  $20
        C-3PO w/ removable limbs #1  $20
        C-3PO w/ removable limbs #1  $20

        Luke Skywalker in battle Poncho #8  $35
        Luke Skywalker in battle Poncho #10 $32
        Luke Skywalker in battle Poncho #1  $30
        Luke Skywalker in battle Poncho #1  $30

The above figures are in Power of the Force cards (the one with the coin)
and are in mint+ condition. No price tag marks and rack punch outs are
still intact. These figures came straight from the Kenner shipment boxes
to me.

Please email all bids by Monday the 21st (this is an extension, no others
will be given). Please include postage in all bids i.e. A bid of $30 includes
figure AND shipping.


  _________   _   ____    __  __  __  _   ____    ___   | Josh Ling
           |   \      \     \   \   |  \      \      |  | Trilogist   
  (     |    /_ |  |_ /            / /_ |  |_ /   (    <O>   Extraordinaire
__  \   |       \     \___    |    |    \     \___  \   |O  joshuali@usc.edu
    /   |   /    \ |      |   /   / /    \ |        /  /|L\==_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Subject: Re: Star Wars Classic #1
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:30:45 GMT

>>>>> On 9 Sep 92 04:46:26 GMT, pip@pro-freedom.cts.com (David Pipgras) said:

pip> Article-I.D.: pro-free.1992Sep8.214626.1343

pip> Has anyone else seen this yet? It was supposed to be out a month
pip> ago, but still nothing for at least the rest of this week...

Comics like this are always late.... 

--
                        Scott Streeter
                        ss@wpi.wpi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: dragon@camelot.bradley.edu (Matthew Korth)
Subject: Re: What happened to SW?
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 13 Sep 92 17:48:34 GMT

In <1992Sep12.214716.1316@microsoft.com> jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes:
>Until the triology is re-released in THX/Dolby Digital...:-)

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that one... one of the theatres near
my parents' house has two THX theatres, so if it's there, I'll see
it.
--
*** Matt Korth *** dragon@camelot.bradley.edu *** dragon@buhub.bradley.edu ***
	"Please, Captain.  Not in front of the Klingons."
					--Spock, _Star Trek V_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
Subject: Re: What happened to SW?
Date: 12 Sep 92 21:47:16 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Sep11.191427.2413@u.washington.edu> watters@mendel.genetics.washington.edu (Mike Watters) writes:
>I have no way of knowing WHERE they got the print from, but a theatre here
>in Seattle just showed StarWars (The 70mm version to boot) about a month
>ago.  

They got the print from LucasFilm, I think. It was a benefit for
children's charities in the Seattle/western washington area.

It was the 70mm version all right, in a 70mm theatre - the (used to
be) United Artists Cinema 150, now the (I think?) Cinema 150.
Back in 1977, UA 150 had a Seattle-area exclusive for Star Wars. It
was see Star Wars downtown, or drive to Tacoma.  

Cinema 150 gets its name from the 150-foot screen. BIG theatre, good
dolby sound (don't know if it got updated to THX after it came out).
That's where I saw Star Wars the first two times (and got totally blown
away) and where I saw TESB. 

Revenge of the Jedi I saw the night it opened, but at a dinky place out
in the 'burbs. Then some friends and I went downtown for the *real* show
...SW and TESB in another old theatre with a decent-sized (star wars sized!)
screen, then over to Cinema 150 for Revenge of the Jedi.

Until the triology is re-released in THX/Dolby Digital...:-)

-jen
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 04:09:21 EDT
From: <MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Was Wedge a Spy?
 <1992Sep4.040208.2847@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au>
 <1992Sep5.100635.1@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg>

In the immortal words of Neil Peart:


GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


(of course Wedge ain't a spy, wouldn't he have either gotten caught or blown
his cover by now, anyways?)
---
Mike Weintraub   mweintr@auvm.american.edu   Solaris on IRC
The American University, Washington, DC, USA, Earth

"If some kind sould could please pick up my      "Do or do not, there is
 tab and while they are at it could please        no try." Yoda
 pick up my broken heart." MARILLION 'That
 Time of the Night' _Clutching at Straws_        "A constant vogue of
                                                  triumph dislocates man
"I know you're different, you know I'm the        so it seems" YES 'Close
 same" RUSH 'Second Nature' _Hold Your Fire_      to the Edge'
    ************* THIS SPACE FOR RENT *****************
From: pip@pro-freedom.cts.com (David Pipgras)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: My Two Cents: Jedi Storm
Date: 5 Sep 92 04:43:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: pro-free.1992Sep4.214342.1263
Organization: ProLine [pro-freedom] AppleVan (Apple UG of Vancouver, WA)

Oh Why not! I'm gonna get sucked into the Jedi Storm bit sooner or later,
so here goes...

I admit, the begining was kinda interesting with the jello aliens
interested in luke, but it just fell apart after that... 

      * The Emperor's Grandson is the new emperor :(
      * A bicycle into an x-wing ?? Damn big bike :/
      * A bicycle ...       :(
      * A mind controled ship with seating for four, but it could only
        hold one person or it would become confused ??? -- Ack!
      * Luke training Lando as a Jed, "just in case" ??

Sorry, I cannot go on....This story died....

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: x91fanjoy@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: T.D.E. Analysis
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:31:26 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

	How about that Dark Empire?  The art seems to be good quality,
but there are some things that merit serious discussion, seeing as how
the FAQ lists TDE as canon, while other netters find it mildly blaspemous.

	The following is my analysis:

1.  Han and Leia and Lando seem to have been written in a manner consistent
    with the Trilogy and Zahn's books.  This is cool.

2.  Luke joining the dark side to defeat the Emperor?  I don't know about 
    that.  Yoda was firm in his assertation that the Dark Side was not 
    stronger, just quicker and more seductive.  Luke is portrayed as a 
    much more firm and commanding individual in TDE than in Zahn's books,
    even before he joined the dark side.

3.  Bringing back the Emperor (though it was done in a believable manner)
    is downright hokey.  New enemies should arise, not old ones.  This leads
    to plot stagnation (the Emperor AGAIN?  Why not a new Emperor or something,
    please?), which would be really bad for Star Wars in general.

4.  And the Emperor wants Leia's new unborn child (ho, doesn't she work fast)!
    This is SUCH an old idea... if nothing else, vaguely reminiscent of 
    Ghostbusters II.  That and in the Zahn books, agents of the Dark Side
    want Leia's twins... give the woman some time to be a mom!!!!

5.  Boba Fett.  I like how they introduced his return, but it's all down-
    hill from there.  Either this is an imposter trying to scare the 
    heebeegeebies out of Han, or the authors don't know jack about my favorite
    SW character.  
      For instance:  Boba Fett NEVER would work with a partner, let alone 
    another hunter like Dengar (whom Fett would have killed when he found out 
    that he had competition).  Fett would NEVER have taken orders from Dengar
    in his own ship.  With all of the room he had chasing Solo and Leia back 
    to the Falcon, Fett would have hit both targets.  Fett's lines are not
    characteristic:  in the movies, he spoke little and was concise.  He had
    but 4 lines between all 3 movies, whereas in TDE, he's always explaining
    things to Dengar.  Finally, he holds his gun wrong... in TDE, he's alway's
    one-handing it, where in the movies, he won't even hold a gun without 
    bracing it with his other arm.


6.  The new fighters.  E-wings and robo-TIEs are a disgrace.  They're ugly.
    I'd think that new rebel fighters would stick to common-variable names
    like a,b,x, and y.  That would make new fighters M and N Wings, eh?
    That, and technology wouldn't have moved fast enough in 2-3 years to make 
    X-Wings so obsolete.
  
	Well, That's my three cents.

		--Dave "Y-Wings and Boba Fett are Cool" Fanjoy    
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: dleland@dante.nmsu.edu (LELAND)
Subject: Re: canon
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:29:43 GMT

I think the mnajor problem with all the arguing over "nuances of canon" is
that it really does make a lot of perhaps well meaning fans come accross
with a bad attitude. It seems as though they are saying, "well, I know
better than you do because I microanalyzed StarWars 67,987,897 times, so
bla bla bla and yak yak yak."

I think anything that develops into a seperate genre of its own, such as
Star Wars, Star Trek, the legends of King Arthur, etc., is that they DO NOT
by definition, have a canon. There are some fixed traditions, certain things
that happened in the stories, but they are flexible, subject to change. A
legend is only a legend if it is relevant to a current culture. You can and
MUST change the details of legends, adapt them, update them, to make them
meaningful to a culture. The hero can have many guises, many faces, many 
settings. That is the stuff real stories are made of. I think it's counter
productive to make posts that say "HA HA HA!!! THE writers are SOOOOOO DUMB!!
In The first Movie, Han Solo breathed when he spoke, but in the next one he
spoke when he breathed! HA HA HA!!!!!!! SO THERE!!!! WHAT A MAJOR INCONSIS-
TENCY!!!!"   etc etc....

I Love thhe legend of Star Wars. I suppose that if fans want to dissect it
into tiny pieces and argue about how many rivets the Falcon should have to
be "authentic" or exactly how many stripes in the Doctor's scarf there should
be, they can. But I wish they would stop screaming at the rest of us that we
are dumb because we like the essentials of the legend and don't care about
the trivia.
From: joshuali@sal-sun86.usc.edu (Joshua Ling)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: THX/Dolby Surround
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:35:29 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun86.usc.edu

In article <12HZ02qK22ML01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> beh10@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Barry Holsinger) writes:
>In article <193i3lINN381@sal-sun117.usc.edu> joshuali@usc.edu (Joshua Ling) writes:
>>I noticed some misunderstandings when it comes to THX and Surround.
>>
>>THX is not a recording format-it is a exhibition format.
>
>Check out the latest hi-fi periodicals.  I recently browsed one that
>mentioned a home system that was THX, tho' I incorrectly
>assumed you'd need specially formatted software to play on it.


It works the same for home systems. A THX logo on a componant means that
Lucasfilm has approved the componant as "good enough" to bare the logo.
Some speakers are THX approved, etc.  You can play anything on it. Though
of course Laserdiscs in dolby are gonna sound better than VHS tapes taped
on a mono VCR.

  _________   _   ____    __  __  __  _   ____    ___   | Josh Ling
           |   \      \     \   \   |  \      \      |  | Trilogist   
  (     |    /_ |  |_ /            / /_ |  |_ /   (    <O>   Extraordinaire
__  \   |       \     \___    |    |    \     \___  \   |O  joshuali@usc.edu
    /   |   /    \ |      |   /   / /    \ |        /  /|L\==_
							      \
From: watters@mendel.genetics.washington.edu (Mike Watters)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: What happened to SW?
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:14:27 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

I have no way of knowing WHERE they got the print from, but a theatre here
in Seattle just showed StarWars (The 70mm version to boot) about a month
ago.  (BTW it was missing the "Close the Blast Doors" line, after all the
fuss here I was paying special attention.)

mike

--
Mike
watters@genetics.washington.edu
Dept of Genetics, Univ of Washington  Seattle
(d) 206-543-1934   (e) 206-361-1156 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: redfive@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Vian Lawson)
Subject: The Last Command
Keywords: by whom, with what and when?
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 06:24:11 GMT

So, by all accounts the new book is to be called this ... OK.  We know
what _Dark Force Rising_ referred to.  We can sort of speculate as to who
the _Heir to the Empire_ was (I still say Mara - the title Zahn wanted was
_The Emperor's Hand_, but Bantam said no, apparently.)

Well, what will _The Last Command_ refer to?  Who will issue it (or will
have issued it) and what will (have) happened?

My contribution to the speculation:




    ....spoilers for Dark Force Rising.  











_The Last Command_ referrs to the Emperors' dying message to Mara, that
is,  "You will kill Luke Skywalker", and she may well try.  But he's still
alive in DE so she won't succeed.  Assuming they are set in the *same*
alternate universe :-)						

Or it might be something to do with the device Luke found on Dagobah - it
was still active.  Or it might be any one of a number of things.

Any ideas?
-- 
  "They've shut down the main reactor"   /  ^  \  Vian Lawson. 
  "Oh no!  That means we'll have to     |  \ /  | Otherwise known as  
  react on our own ..."                  \_____/ redfive@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au
From: pip@pro-freedom.cts.com (David Pipgras)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Star Wars Classic #1
Date: 9 Sep 92 04:46:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: pro-free.1992Sep8.214626.1343
Organization: ProLine [pro-freedom] AppleVan (Apple UG of Vancouver, WA)

Has anyone else seen this yet? It was supposed to be out a month ago, but
still nothing for at least the rest of this week...

Dave
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Dark Force Rising (cont.)
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:57:15 GMT
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

martin@zen.maths.uts.edu.au (Martin Caden) writes:
  [about Luke-and-Mara plot devices]  
>They've also saved each others lives several times.  Perhaps a romance
>IS too obvious, but Luke DESERVES something...

He already has a bionic hand, doesn't he?

Never mind.  I absolutely refuse to admit I said that.

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu

  "You did, Oscar, you did."  --Monty Python
From: futrena@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: STAR WARS Revamped!?!
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:12:16 GMT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

I think I might have a possible suggestion to why they might have
pulled the movies from rental.  (Although, I see them everytime I go to
Blockbusteror any other movie rental place.)  There is a trend
developing.  The movie "gods-that-be" are beginning to re-edit very
popular older movies FOR RE-RELEASE!!  For example, they are
re-editing and re-releasing the cult classic, _Blade Runner_.  For all
of you Cyberpunk fans out there, it will be a movie to remember.

I predict that they will re-edit and re-release, your favorite and
mine, _STAR WARS_ and _The Empire Strikes Back_.  Keep in mind, this
is only a guess and prediction.  There has got to be at least 30
minutes worth of footage that was cut from the original _STAR WARS_. 
Just think of _STAR WARS_ in LucasFilm Surround Sound STEREO.  I get
goose bumps just thinking about it.

It may only be wishful thinking, but we all have our dreams.

Nathan Futrell
futrena@WKUVX1.bitnet
"Any questions, comments, ideas, snide remarks..."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: alumni106@camins.camosun.bc.ca (Max Sterling)
Subject: Re: canon
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 21:05:20 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.150032.6248@ccsun.strath.ac.uk>, cad214@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("P.Craig") writes:
> It's good to hear someone with a sensible viewpoint for once. I myself love
> absolutely anything to do with Star Wars, and it annoys me just a teensy wee
> bit to hear other Star Wars fans not liking something cause it's not 'canon'.
> Who the hell chose that word anyway??

I have NO idea. Probably some Trekker (actually, Trekkie). That's the 
first place I ever saw it used, at any rate, and it irritated the hell 
out of me. I was always under the impression that "canon" was a sytle of 
music used commonly in the classics, eg. "Canon and Fugue in D Minor". It 
took me a few months to figure out what THEY meant by "canon". Matta ne.

                                                       -=]> Max <[=-

+----------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
|  Han - Listen! We don't have time to   | "Riryoku no aran koto wo."  |
|        discuss this IN COMMITTEE!      |  alumni106@                 |
|  Leia - I am NOT A COMMITTEE!          |      camins.camosun.bc.ca   |
+----------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin)
Subject: Re: Delta Source (Spoilers)
Originator: gamg6900@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 01:52:04 GMT

jmr5125@tamsun.tamu.edu (James Reed) writes:

>I was just looking through messages, and it appears as if some people haven't
>figured out just who the mysterious Delta Source is...  I suspected since the
>end of the last book, and I'd be willing to bet that Delta Source is:











>[****Spoilers ahead*****]
























>Winter.  Come on folks, when Luke talks to Winter about going to see C'broath,
>you have the Grand Admiral saying that Luke is going to go see C'broath.  
>Whenever Winter is invovled in something it seems to fall apart.  We already
>know that the source is highly placed, and un-suspectable, so how much higher
>can you get than Winter???!?

>Any debate?

>(Excuse my mangling of names, etc.  Its been awhile since I last read the 
>books).

>jmr5125@tamsun.tamu.edu

Just a goofy idea that struck me as I was reading the book, since I thought
Winter was too obvious a choice: How about the plants that line the
corridors of the Imperial Palace on Coruscant? Maybe they have some weird
ability to act like transmitters. Talk about unsuspectable - who would
suspect a plant? Maybe you would look for BUGS (hahaha) on the plant, but
nobody would think of the plant as a transmitter.

Ramblings. Time will tell. I'll shut up now. Greg Martin, g-martin1@uiuc.edu
From: ted4646@zeus.tamu.edu (kid eternity)
Subject: Re: Admiral Piett
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 00:04:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.191548.21610@njitgw.njit.edu>, bxp1628@hertz.njit.edu (Brian Perler) writes...
>In article <BuKozB.Dz5@mcigate.apdev.mci.com> rmwise@mcigate.apdev.mci.com (Bob_Wise) writes:
>>How about the fact the Ozzel actually screwed up, but Piett didn't.
>>Vader isn't stupid.
> 
>But what did Needa do to screw up?
> 

He apologized to Lord Vader personally, which shows a bad judge of character.

>-- 
>"Dog bites man--that's not a story.  Man bites dog--*that's* a story.  And
>if the dog and the man slug it out for six issues, and then Wolverine shows
>up for a guest appearance, and the dog turns out to be a mutant, that's a
>*Marvel* story!"			-Marvel Editorial Handbook

Nice .sig, by the way.

-thomas

Stupid things to say in the Star Wars Universe:

#12:   "I'll apologize personally to Lord Vader."




Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Subject: Re: List of pictures.
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 19:41:11 GMT

>>>>> On 7 Sep 92 10:22:20 GMT, D.J.Butcher@newcastle.ac.uk (Dave Butcher) said:

Butcher> Star01.jpg Cover of Roleplaying book. (Where did you think I
Butcher> scanned em from?) 

List deleted...

Butcher> (I reserve the right to reserve all my rights ;) ;) )

So where can these pictures be found????

--
                        Scott Streeter
                        ss@wpi.wpi.edu
From: g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Info about Return of the Jedi script
Date: 13 Sep 92 22:17:42 GMT
Reply-To: g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Originator: gamg6900@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin) writes:

>Return of the Jedi: One version of this script appears in _The Return of
>the Jedi Notebook_, though I don't have this book so I can't say anything
>about it.

I must have been on drugs when I wrote this, as this statement is obviously
wrong. The script appears in _The Art of Return of the Jedi_, and as far
as I know there is no _Return of the Jedi Notebook_. I was confused with
Empire Strikes Back. Sorry!

					Greg Martin
					g-martin1@uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Help II: Request for info.
From: gownder@husc9.harvard.edu (Joseph Gownder)
Date: 5 Sep 92 11:09:06 EDT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center


Hi, this is a second posting.  I was wondering if someone could give me
some information:

- What is Mark Hamill up to these days?  I hear alot about Carrie Fisher
and (of course) Harrison Ford, but I would like to know more about Mark
Hamill.  Can he be written to at some address?

- How can I get the FAQ for this group?

Please e-mail if possible.  Thanks.

- J. P. Gownder
gownder@husc9.harvard.edu
From: beh10@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Barry Holsinger)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: THX/Dolby Surround
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:02:58 GMT
Reply-To: beh10@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Barry Holsinger)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <193i3lINN381@sal-sun117.usc.edu> joshuali@usc.edu (Joshua Ling) writes:
>I noticed some misunderstandings when it comes to THX and Surround.
>
>THX is not a recording format-it is a exhibition format.

Check out the latest hi-fi periodicals.  I recently browsed one that
mentioned a home system that was THX, tho' I incorrectly
assumed you'd need specially formatted software to play on it.

--
Barry Holsinger       | I ain't git'n et by no gators to make my wage!
Sunnyvale, CA         | There are better ways to make a buck in dis
beh10@DUTS.amdahl.com | nutty town!!  -Ralph Snart
From: myleslee@next05pg2.wam.umd.edu (Alan Brady Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Book due in Nov.
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:00:37 GMT
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <kinezct@Unify.Com> news@Unify.Com (news admin) writes:
> The FAQ refers to a stand-alone book to be released ~ Nov this year. (I  
forget
> the author) Does anyone know anything about it?  
> From: tsv@dbrus.Unify.Com (Tim Vannaman)
> Path: dbrus!tsv
> 
Could be the Dark Force Rising Sourcebook due in November for RPG but I  
guess that wouldn't be stand alone.