From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: There's racism, and then there's RACISM (was Re: Racial preferences in choosing your mate)
Keywords: racism
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:41:23 GMT

OK, I'm going to straighten something out right now, because I don't want
a certain person sending me another e-mail on this.

When I wrote my post <1992Jul21.235801.14425@oakhill.sps.mot.com> on racial
preferences, I admitted that holding that kind of attitude toward a potential
mate is a form of racism.  It *is*, in my book; there's no way you can get
around it with a lot of fancy skirting of the facts or long-winded rational-
izations.  If you have a clear preference or "dis-preference" for people of a
particular race (or ethnicity) as your SO or spouse, I'm sorry, that's a form
of racial discrimination (or ethnic discrimination).  I don't see how you can
deny that if you're truly honest with yourself.

Now, having said that, let me also make the point that I DON'T INTEND TO
KNOCK ANYONE FOR HAVING THIS ATTITUDE, NEITHER HERE IN SCAA OR ANYWHERE ELSE.
No, it's not the most wonderful attitude a human being can hold toward others.
No, you can't be a truly perfect person if you feel that way.  But so what??
Who in the world out there is perfect?  Who do you honestly know (except for
maybe little children) who is 100%, absolutely-without-even-one-racist-bone
in his/her body?  I've never met such a person.  What I *have* met are a lot
of human beings with flaws, including having the flaw of racism, in whatever
degree.  Of course I include myself in this.  That's why, for the most part,
I try very, very hard NOT to call people racist in this newsgroup, or for
that matter, anywhere else, unless the *degree* of racism that they hold is
just too much for me to stomach.  Another way of putting it is that there's
a line you have to cross before I'll call you a racist.  Unlike some others
here, I don't try to cheapen the term by calling everybody and his mother a
racist.  I can think of only one time off-hand where I called somebody here
a racist without really meaning it, and I regret saying it now.  If you're
looking for me to jump on a particular person's back for being "racist" here,
then you'd better look somewhere else, 'cause I ain't gonna do it, unless
that person is just obnoxiously bad.  And I also have a very low tolerance
for people who are racist themselves (as all humans are) and yet get nit-
picky over every little attitude some others hold.

OK, what's enough to "cross the line" in my book?  Well, I guess it varies
with every individual, but in my book, here's where someone crosses the line
into unacceptably racist behavior:

1. Physical violence (like killing Vincent Chin or beating somebody up), or
   even threats of physical violence (i.e. intimidation).
2. Job/housing/educational discrimination, i.e. the institutional kind.  The
   public kind.  The kind that's against the law.
3. Being just a little too obnoxious in his/her views, e.g. David Duke.
4. Certain very unfair spreading of stereotypes (see below).

And that's pretty much it.  Aside from that, anybody can do or say whatever
the hell they want without getting an accusation of "Racist!" from me.  As
far as spreading stereotypes go (number 4 above), it all depends on the way
it's said and how unfair or not it is.  For me, it's a judgment call.

OK?  Is that clear?  Now, just because I don't call somebody a "racist" here
doesn't mean I can't recognize that some of the more "acceptable" or "subtle"
forms of racism (or racial discrimination) exist, such as wanting to only
date or marry someone of X race, or wanting only to adopt a baby of Y race,
or occasionally telling an ethnically offensive joke in private as long as
it wasn't said in a mean-spirited way, etc etc.  Or heck, just wanting to
have friends and acquaintances of mostly Z race.  I recognize that a lot of
that is *A FORM* of racism, but it's so common and so typical of human beings
(who are not perfect) that I can cut anybody slack on it.  A lot of times, my
attitude "SO WHAT?"  If I yelled at all those people who are like that, I
wouldn't have any friends in the world, including myself.  Not to mention it
would be EXTREMELY hypocritical, since like I said, I'm guilty of some of the
more "acceptable" forms of racism myself.

So, if you're a perfectly pure person with respect to racism, please, step
up to the mike and admonish every single person out there over every little
nit-picky subtly racist thing they ever say or do.  And you know what *I'LL*
do?  That's right, I'll flame you.  I'll flame you good.  For being a hypo-
crite.  And if you come off like you're the expert on racism and you have to
lecture ignorant little people like the rest of us on this, then I'll never
let up on you.  Because I can't stand holier-than-thou people.  And because
I guarantee you on your life that you're far from a perfect soul yourself
on this issue.

When I wrote that reply to Gary, I was merely recognizing that the kind of
attitude he talked about *is* a form or racism.  No way you can get around
that conclusion.  But I don't automatically feel then that because it is a
form of racism, that it must mean that anybody who holds this attitude is
the most terrible and evil person the world has ever seen.  To me, strange
as it might sound, there's racism and then there's RACISM.  Just like to me,
there's crime and then there's CRIME.  A person who speeds on the highway
and a mass murderer don't exactly cause the same amount of outrage in me,
although technically both have broken the law.  Same here.  I might nail
you for RACISM (see the three things listed above, plus possibly the spread-
ing of stereotypes), but for the other stuff, who cares?  In a perfect world,
yes, nobody would think that way, but who lives in a perfect world?  If you
want to say, "I prefer to only date people NOT of XYZ race," but don't say
anything bad about XYZ people, why should I nail you?  If you say the same
*AND* bad-mouth XYZ people in the process, then I might consider it.  Want
to adopt a baby of your own race and only your own race?  Wonderful!!!
Start talking trash about babies of other races?  I might have a problem with
that then.  See the difference?

And if you don't agree with me on what I say?  Fine!!  Argue with me!  That's
part of why this newsgroup is here anyway.

I thought I had made my views on this absolutely clear with all my past
writings in this newsgroup, but perhaps it wasn't.  So I hope this clears
things up.

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american