HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brumleve@gauss (Dan Brumleve)
Subject: Re: Player killing ....
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:11:47 GMT

jblonon@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (Jason B Lonon) writes:


>On any mud worth playing, you'll have higher level characters who 'defend'
>against nameless player killers. This is the situation on Moral Decay,
>where simply no player killer ever gets to high enough level to be
>of any nuisance.
>*Grin*

This usually causes problems, unless there's a relatively equal balance
between player killers and player killer killers.  Player killer
killers usually hunt down anyone _accused_ of wronging another
player in some way.  I once joined a player killing party, and
after we killed a few people of, someone posted a board message
condeming me, one of the other party members, and 5 other
completely uninvolved people of being ruthless player killers.
These innocents were subsequently hunted down and killed (multiple
times, I might add) by the level 20 player killer killer squad.

Also I find it odd that a MUD named Moral Decay would be so opposed
to having players' feelings hurt by being killed... ;)  Just a thought.

-Jhalavar-
From: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk (James "Oolon Colluphid" Hawtin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: info needed
Keywords: info needed
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:58:25 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, UK

Try using tintytalk or tinyfugue to connect to the server if play a mud and call
the process emacs!


			James
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: brumleve@gauss (Dan Brumleve)
Subject: Re: Player killing ....
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:19:24 GMT

ferret@paradox.engin.umich.edu (kenneth r lipka) writes:


>In article <BxzH48.2J9@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, brumleve@gauss (Dan Brumleve) writes:
>> However innocent-sounding this system may be, it does _not_ work.  New
>> players usually don't get killed unless they annoy someone who's higher
>> level (in which case they should get killed).

>      Just what is your definition of "annoying" someone?  Is it asking the
> standard question "I'm new. Can you help me?"  Is it someone who is playing
> the MUD because they have a neat idea for a character and want to role-play
> it for live people (i.e., someone who always speaks in rhyme, talks with an
> outrageous accent, always hugs whoemever they meet, etc)?  Or is it someone
> who asks if they can pick up one of the numerous objects that are lying at
> the feet of the higher level character (all of which are ss [?] to that 
> higher)?

I don't mean any of these.  What part of my post leads you to suggest I
do?   I was referring to someone who delights in anonymously ruining
someone else's fun.  I once had an experience with one guy who would
walk up to other characters and spit on them repeatedly (using macros).
If newbies are immune to higher level characters, the players can't
do anything about it on their own.  Where are you coming up with these
suppositions about what I mean by "annoying"?  

>      Of course, if this "annoying" takes the form of trying to kill the
> higher, then the higher should be a gentleman (i.e. like Count Ruegan in
> The Princess Bride) and let the lower try again when he is more of a
> challange [sic].

Says who?  Who are you to say how people should role-play their characters?

>      Besides, new players often "annoy" the higher by simply
> passing through the room.  Let's let common sense and a communtive [sic] 
> sense of cooperation for fun and profit rule the MUDs.

Huh?  I lost you here...


>	With my opinion,
>	Ken Lipka
>	ferret@engin.umich.edu

PS.  Please try to limit lines to less than 80 characters (rather than over
400).  I had to reformat your whole post. 

-Jhalavar-
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Subject: Death and its effects
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 08:10:46 GMT

This is a subject that usually seems cut and dried for most MU*s. In
MUSH/MUCK games, it has the effect of sending you home and losing your
equipment. In LPs and Dikus, you lose experience points, and
consequently levels and hp. For the latter, this seems a waste of a
great opportunity. It simply provokes the hack-n-slash,
persistence-is-all-I-need mentality, and adds nothing to either the gaming
environment or the character. On the other hand, permanent death could
be a little frustrating for some, and tragic for others.

One possible compromise is to have a character accumulate points as he
adventures, these points coming into play only when the character
dies. The player is immediately asked if he wants to create a new
character, and, if he does, the points that the previous character had
accumulated are given to the new character, to be "spent" on improving
skills, stats, or whatever.

The new character then benefits from the previous character, without
giving the player a sense of having to start all over again. It also
allows the new character to be, say, the daughter/son of the dead
character, or some sort of vassal/friend/protegee.

Another option is to simply remove combat from it's status as be all
and end all of MUDs, and make it as just one avenue for "success" in
MUD, albeit a hazardous one.

Jamie
From: alansz@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Alan Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: info needed
Date: 18 Nov 1992 19:49:03 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu
Keywords: info needed

In article <1992Nov12.145825@cs.bham.ac.uk> jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk (James "Oolon Colluphid" Hawtin) writes:
>Try using tintytalk or tinyfugue to connect to the server if play a mud and
>call the process emacs!

Not only will this not fool anybody with a clue (try typing 'netstat' some
time), the premise is dishonest, IMHO. If mudding is not allowed at your
site, maybe you can find a public unix system from which you can telnet.
Going against the wishes of a sysadmin, university, or other policy
gives mu* a bad name.

Just my 2 coins.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Paul@DuneMUSH (Coming soon!)  |          Alan Schwartz         
Belkira@Belgariad II             | alansz@cogsci.berkeley.edu
 Indena@Mua'kaar                 | UC Berkeley                        
Javelin@Belgariad, and elsewhere | Cognitive Psychology        
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: icsip175@Msu.oscs.montana.edu (Jonathan Smith)
Subject: help
Reply-To: icsip175@Msu.oscs.montana.edu (Jonathan Smith)
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 11:17:06 GMT

I am looking for some help as I am new to MUD's.

Say that I was to connect to World's of Carnage at 128.227.116.14 port 4000
I get connected and then login appears.

What do I type for Login and Password?
Help would be apreceated.
please post your answer or E-mail to icsip175@trex.oscs.montana.edu
thanks in advance
From: trsnyder@mcs.Drexel.edu (Bob Snyder)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: What are the newly created groups
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:21:29 GMT
Organization: Drexel University, Dept. of Math. and Comp. Sci.

>>>>> In article <1992Nov18.113718.2419@cnsvax.uwec.edu>,
>>>>> georgetl@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

georgetl> What are the newly created news groups which pertain to
georgetl> mudding?  I need to get my sysadmin to add them to our feed.

There is currently a Call For Votes to creates some new mud
newsgroups, but the last ones created include the one you are posting
to. :-)

The CFV should be done in a few weeks, and if they pass, the groups created
a week or so later.

Bob
From: yappo@fy.chalmers.se (Sten D~ring)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: MUD-CLIENT FOR EMACS WANTED!
Keywords: mud client emacs
Date: 22 Nov 92 10:40:06 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Univ. of Technology, G|teborg, Sweden

Try logging in at moderato.fy.chalmers.se 1812 and either ask or mail Fil. He's
one of our arches and have created an emacs client that is fairly intelligent.
Have fun mudding :)

   Yappo
From: punisher+@CMU.EDU (Eric Thomas Pronko)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: Searching for a DikuMUD
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:33:03 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

try perilous realms...140.211.111.23 2150 but i think soon to be moving
elsewhere.

eric
From: lxh16@po.CWRU.Edu (Lila Hanft)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Telnet with linewrap
Date: 20 Nov 1992 02:58:56 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: lxh16@po.CWRU.Edu (Lila Hanft)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


Ok, I know there are better clients than telnet, but I need one that I can
run when I'm at home, where my machine is not hooked directly into
internet. What I do is dial-in to my computer  (PC-386sx) at school, and
then telnet out of that to MUSHes. My problem, as you might imagine,
is that I don't have linewrap and other features which are supported 
in clients like TinyTALK.

My questions: Are there versions of telnet that have linewrap? Is there a
better way for me to be doing this? 
-- 
Lila Hanft                                     lxh16@po.cwru.edu
Assistant Professor of English
Case Western Reserve University                   (216)-386-2372
Cleveland, OH 44106-7117                lxh16%po.cwru.edu@cunyvm
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: amolitor@nmsu.edu (Andrew Molitor)
Subject: Re: CarnageMud
Organization: Department of Mathematics
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 05:58:23 GMT

In article <37655@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> bla@reef.cis.ufl.edu
(Basilius Arvanitis) writes:
> [extolling the virtues of this diku variant]
>CRASH PROTECTION:  
>
	Call me naive, but why don't you just fix it so it doesn't
crash?

	Andrew
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (hackers schmackers)
Subject: Problem with PMF
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 02:12:03 GMT


At some places, the following will occur with PMF:

*** Problem in get_line_from_mud: Null byte in buffer changed to '?'.
?

Anybody know how to get rid of it?

--
 ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu   FutureCulture E-List: [future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu]
 andy (hawkeye)         new edge, technoculture, cyberpunk, virtual reality,
                        raves, etc. Home of the famous :) FutureCulture FAQ!
 
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: verwey@acs.ucalgary.ca (Mary-Ann Verwey)
Subject: Re: MUDS should be banned.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 00:19:54 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta
Keywords: MUD

In article <BxxrpH.8r3@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jbroda@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lonely Wolf) writes:
>
>	In my sole opinion all mud games should be banned. There are people     	that almost completely give up their social lives for playing a MUD.
>	They spend up to twelve hours sitting before a terminal, neglecting
>	their obligations to the real wolrd. Gradually, they come to consider
>	the MUD as their reality and one that is more fun than the actual world.

Some people do lose sight of reality... as they did when they
played D&D or video games... this is not much different... alot
of people enjoy playing the games here... Why should we not be
able to play because some people can't get their priorities
straight? I play alot and still have a social life and understand
that MUDs are games and that is all they are... Hmm.. well that's
my opinion :)

Mary-Ann
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mary-Ann Verwey                    Hold on to the shining moments in times
verwey@acs.ucalgary.ca             of darkness, they will pull you through
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Player killing ....
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:02:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.145911.234@news.unomaha.edu> dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu (Darryl Burgdorf) writes:
>In neither case did the other player stand to gain anything -- money or 
>experience -- from his actions.  In neither case was there any provocation
>for the action:  I had done nothing to annoy them, I had not stolen from them,
>I had not in any way aligned myself with an "opposing faction" in the game
>world, and had no item which they wanted and had to kill me to get.
>
>In short, the actions were senseless, and served only to destroy what little
>advancement I had thusfar made in the game.

The actions were not senseless.  The other character, had this been real life,
would have had no idea that you didn't happen to have anything worth stealing,
so all he can do is rob all bassers-by who look like a likely target.  Even
muggers in the real world have to do this sometimes.

>Wanton pointless killing of other players, and especially of lower level
>characters, gains nothing for the murderer within the game.  And I fail to
>see what satisfaction or enjoyment comes from it for the player, outside of
>the game.

Well, maybe he enjoys roleplaying psychopaths.

I've had descriptions which say that I have green hair.  I don't have green
hair in real life, and playing a character who has it gains me absolutely
nothing, but I still do it.  The same for playing psychopaths.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
NOT.

Although you _can_ play a psychopath for such reasons, almost everyone who
really _does_ it does it because they enjoy pissing off other players.  For
these people, "I was only roleplaying, it's only a game" is just a cover story.
Here's a hypothetical: Suppose I "roleplay" a rapist.  I do it only by using
normal speech commands.  Question: Don't the pro-playerkilling arguments also
apply here?)

I personally disagree with playerkilling.  Too many of the reasons it works are
specific to the inability of a computer to simulate reality--if that was a
_real_ city, what percentage of the residents would actually get caught by a
mugger waiting at a single exit?  And what's the real-life counterpart to
robbing someone and then renting out so they can't get their items back?
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: cluther@morticia.cnns.unt.edu (Clay Luther)
Subject: GodNet Returns
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 05:55:54 GMT

The GodNet is returning to the net.  All programmers of the GodNet need to 
log in and check with Malraux or Chaos *ASAP*.

morticia.cnns.unt.edu 7777

Thanks.

NOTE: GN is not open to the public *yet*.  Please be patient.

-- 
Clay Luther
cluther@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: brumleve@gauss (Dan Brumleve)
Subject: Re: Player killing ....
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:00:04 GMT

tclark@carson.u.washington.edu (Tomas Clark) writes:

>    WEll, one of the biggest problems I see is that hapless newbies are
>being killed for no reason... this destroys the enjoyment of the game, and the
>point here is not realism, it's enjoyment.
>    Many newbies are probably driven away from muds by these orccurences, and
>since there's really no point (no monetary gain, little exp gain) for even Pkers
>to kill newbies, this is waht I suggest:
>    Newbies should be immune to PKing until theiy have reached a cenrtain
>exp amount, level, or have played for a certain amount of time. This
>way PKing will still exist, but newbies won't get killed. PKers will even be
>happier since they won't kill a newbie by mistake (waste of time, no $). Sure it may
>not be "realistic" but do you really care that much? Realism is only desirable
>als long as it asdds to the enjoyment of the game for all. (Or for most).
>Realism should not eraeally be pursured for its onwn sake, and in any
>case it should be balanced with fun and playability. Only so much can be 
>simulated effectiveley....
>    Also I agreee with the alignment idea. If plaueryers are very evil
>they should have a harder time getting eservice in stores, etc. where the
>oweners are usually average blokes (neutral). Same might be treue for good
>players trying to buy stuff ain the black market, etc. There should be a lot
>more alignment reaction thatn there is....
>    Finally, I thini k that beyond newbies, it is up to players to kill and
>handeklele the PK menace. But newbies cannot defend themselves, and w
>often don't know anyone on the muds. They are dirriven away without
>having a chance.

However innocent-sounding this system may be, it does _not_ work.  New
players usually don't get killed unless they annoy someone who's higher
level (in which case they should get killed).  I run a MUD, and despite
the fact that it's in playtesting, I'm quite confident that it has one
of the highest daily player death rates (at the hands of other players)
than almost any other MUD out there (except one like Genocide).  Only
a few players under 5th level are among the death toll (if any at
all), and if they at all mind (usually not) they invariably post
a bulletin board message either denouncing the killer (or the
MUD, occaisionally), or requesting some kind of justice.  If the
request has some kind of rationale ("He killed me 5 times in a row!")
I sometimes honor it, otherwise I don't.  There's natural selection
for ya.  During Armageddon's existence I can only think of a
couple people who have quit because of being killed by a player.

Even if you are concerned about those few people who might quit,
this type of system is most often abused.  Pepople create new 
characters to taunt high level characters who can't do anything
back, and it also gives assholes a wonderful opportunity to
annoy everyone on the entire MUD if no immortal happens
to be present (repeated shouts, etc).

-Jhalavar-
From: linnoise@bigboy (PFTTCZ)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: Adversary mud
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:38:57 GMT
Organization: Temple University

Well, I've heard RUMORS that its a problem with the new machine.  The new
machine is bigger & faster but a a bug or two has to be fixed or the system
will crash when the muds on it have an unusually high number of players.

Other rumors suggest that there may be big changes taking place within Adversary
so the downtime could mean recoding and/or new areas.

I hope the changes aren't too drastic, its a great mud because it allows pking
and the immorts aren't allowed to interfere.

---Linenoise
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:48:35 EST
From: <KEG108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: looking for vms clients

      Just tring to find any clients that work on the VMS. If u could please
send me the ftp sites, I would really appricate it.


Keith


ps. Renegade rules :)
From: iav@po.CWRU.Edu (Ian A. Verschuren)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: RUNNING A MUD ON A NEXT
Date: 17 Nov 1992 00:56:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: iav@po.CWRU.Edu (Ian A. Verschuren)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu

sorry about all the caps, but I want to know if anyone is out there running
a mud on a nextstation.  I'm trying to set one up now, but am havina a shitload
of trouble with the makefile.. I'm getting a denied execution error on Cflags,
dms, comm.c and  a few other things??? anyone know what I can do about this?
if anyone out there does have it running on a next, can the send me a copy
of their makefile through email please!
thanks!
-- 
************************************************************************
*(place your own favorite cute sig file here and pretend its mine)     *
*Ian.                                                                  *
************************************************************************   
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: djs55750@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (the man )
Subject: Re: HERO-type Muds
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:39:55 GMT

marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

>I've been seaching for a mud that was kinda like Marvel Super Heroes or some
>other Hero-type games, but so far have come up negative.  Does anyone know of
>one or have any clue if one exists?  If so then post or email to me.  Also,
>does anyone know if Hero II is around?

Please Post this one, others may be interested in ichecking this one out :)

						thanks again,
						     Dave

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: kludge@carson.u.washington.edu (Eric Moon)
Subject: Re: Player killing ....
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:41:14 GMT


Robb:  By any chance are you the Robb from Fajita?  The one who believes that 
there is nothing wrong with player killing even if it's _forbidden_ by mud
rules?
From: cvadsckd@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: Problems with Mud running on Convex System
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:51:44 GMT
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvadsckd

This is my first post on NNEWS.  I have, however, read the board for some time.
I am having some problems running my mud.  I have a good site, and the code
that I and my cohorts has developed looks very good, but we can't get the darn
thing to run on the current machine.  The code we are using is Copper from
Berkeley, with extensive mods.  We are trying to run it on a Convex
Supercomputer.  We keep getting bus errors during the boot time zone reset.
Specifically, in the MOB loading part of db.c.  It returns a bus error
in one of the integer assignment statement for MOB's.  Strangely enough,
the loop that loads the MOB's into the world is repeated about 100 times
before it crashes.  I can't figure it out, and all of the people I have asked
are baffled.

To be honset, I know little about this computer system.  In fact, I have
never even heard of Convex.  But its a great site.  No disk quota, and a VERY
fast machine.  The MUD compiles in about 30 seconds.(!)  I would greatly
appreciate any help you could provide.

Please email to the board or to me directly at:
DID@uncvx1.acs.unc.edu

The address that I am sending this from is temporary.

Thanks for your attention.

  --Poly mud
From: dms50304@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Darkman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: Adversary
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:57:05 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Could someone please post or email me the downtime schedule for Adversary?  It
seems to be down at the same time each week but I haven't quite figured out
exactly when yet.  Any info will be appreciated.

Look for me as Lynx, Shadowlynx, Sonic, etc...

-- 
--- Daryn Sharp   Darkman@uiuc.edu
From: joverton@csws20.ic.sunysb.edu (Jeremiah Overton)
Subject: Re: Diku Existence...
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:25:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.133935.25964@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> sadkins@bird07.cs.ohiou.edu (Scott W. Adkins) writes:
>In article <102061@bu.edu> spacefox@acs.bu.edu (Godfrey Degamo) writes:
>
>First, the advertisement:
>
>	PERILOUS REALMS ---> 140.211.111.23 2150
>
>    We have lots to offer, especially to all of those Judy Mudders! :-)
    [LOTS of styff deleted]
>Try us out!  I think you will like us!

I listen to countless people boast about their mud, saying how it has this
and it has that, and its so good!, and they have this unique thing that is
on 6 other muds....

But I must say, this is the one MUD that I agree with :)