HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gilligan@bldrdoc.gov (Jonathan Gilligan 303-497-3861)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Fabrikant, "mad" or "bad" ?
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:28:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

To amplify on Brad Wallet's comments: Realize in limiting the
definition of "mad" to the legal definition of "insane" that in the
Dahmer case, it was judged sane to kill a number of young men, eat
parts of the remains, and store other parts of the remains around
one's apartment. That may meet the legal definition of the actions of
a sane person, but the colloquial usage is richer and more meaningful
here. This is especially true if we take the historical meaning, sane
= healthy. Mass murder is not healthy (for children and other living
things).

---Jon
-- 

Disclaimer --- The government probably disagrees with my opinions.
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: disaacs@pietrzak.carleton.ca (Dave Isaacs)
Subject: Re: Two die, three hurt in university rampage - Montreal Gazette
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:52:21 GMT

In <1992Aug25.170604.20773@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> gat@forsight.jpl.nasa.gov (Erann Gat) writes:

>In article <disaacs.714756296@cunews> disaacs@martha.carleton.ca (Dave Isaacs) writes:
>>This is from the Montreal Gazette, 25-August-1992

>[Much deleted]

>>    But Judd said the case took a new turn last week when Swamy and Sankar 
>>decided last week to file charges of contempt of court against Fabrikant.
>>
>>The charges were based on a number of electronic on a number of Fabrikant's
>>electronic mail messages.

>I find this very puzzling.  On what basis did they charge him with
>contempt?  Was there a court order enjoining him from posting his
>letters to the net?

>E.

I suspect that the basis of this charge was that since the case was still on
going in court, revealing evidence of the nature of that which was emailed
with a very wide distribution could be taken as contempt of court.  I have
no clue as to the potential of the charge standing in the court, however.

Dave
From: craig@vax2.concordia.ca (Craig Buchanan - Computing Services, Concordia University)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Fabricant Concordia killings
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:46:00 GMT
Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

There has been much talk here about Dr.Fabrikant and the killings at 
Concordia.  Here are some of the facts about this very sad event.

At approximately 3:15 on August 24 Dr. Valery Fabrikant shot 5 of his
colleagues in various locations on the ninth floor of the Henry F. Hall
Building of Concordia University.
The victums are:
Dr. Micheal Hogben, associate professor of chemistry and biochemistry, and
president of the faculty union, shot and killed.
Dr. Matthew Douglass, professor of civil engineering, shot and killed.
Dr. Jaan Saber, associate professor of mechanical engineering, shot and later
died in hospital from his wounds.
Dr. Phoivos Ziogas, chairman of the electrical and computer engineering
department, shot and at last report still in very critical condition in
hospital.
Elizabeth Horwood, secretary to the chairman of the mechanical engineering
department, shot in the thigh and has since been released from hospital.


My sincere sympathy goes out to the families and friends of the victums
as well as my prayers for Dr. Ziogas's recovery.

Craig Buchanan
Concordia University
Montreal, Canada
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: wayner@cs.cornell.edu (Peter Wayner)
Subject: Re: Fabrikant did not post to sci.research.careers
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:52:22 GMT

lharris@upei.ca (Lora Harris) writes:

>In article <1992Aug26.191013.17993@relay.nswc.navy.mil> bwallet@apssgi.nswc.navy.mil (Brad Wallet) writes:
>>|> Interesting that you chose to print both sides of the story.  
>Commendable.>|> However, in posting confidential memos and documentation, 
>dod you>|> unknowingly open yourself to a lawsuit yourself?

>>Sued for helping someone execise freedom of speech?  How American.
>>God bless America, land of lawyers!
>>-------------------------------------------------
>>Brad Wallet                 Mathematician

>	Just two points, Brad -
>1) Doesn't the USA have laws against libel, and laws against the invasion of 
>privacy involved in publishing confidential information?  For instance, if a 
>US doctor were to publish a list of names of those who had been treated by 
>him for venereal diseases, wouldn't he get sued?

>2) How on earth can the comment "How American" apply to an incident in 
>Canada?  We most obviously aren't American.  Neither is our legal system.  
>Concordia is in Canada, in the province of Quebec.

I thought we won all of Canada in the War of 1812? That's what we're
taught in History Class in the USA. We just don't give the 11 States
up there Stars on the Flag because 50 is such a nice round number. You
metric guys up there should appreciate a reason like that, huh?

>L. Harris (aka Zant)
>Charlottetown, PEI
>Canada.
-- 
Peter Wayner   Department of Computer Science Cornell Univ. Ithaca, NY 14850
EMail:wayner@cs.cornell.edu    Office: 607-255-9202 or 255-1008
Home: 116 Oak Ave, Ithaca, NY 14850  Phone: 607-277-6678
From: mw0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Marcie A. Wallace)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: WANTED: "Offical" rules of authorship
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:15:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.gecyhtW00iUyI3t=cF
Organization: Doctoral student, Psychology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

According to the _Publication Manual of the American Psychological
Assn._ , the rules for the determination of authorship are "discussed in
Principle 7f of the 'Ethical Principles for Psychologists' (APA, 1981)."

Selected excerpts from the Manual and Principle 7f:

"Authorship is reserved for persons who receive primary credit and hold
primary responsibility for a published work."

"Publication credit is assigned to those who have contributed to a
publication in proportion to their professional contributions.  Major
contributions of a professional character made by several persons to a
common project are recognized by joint authorship, with the individual
who made the principle contribution mentioned first.  Minor
contributions of a professional character and extensive clerical or
similar nonprofessional assistance may be acknowledged in
footnotes...Acknowledgement through specific citations is made for
unpublished as well as published material that has directly influenced
the research or writing...All contributors are to be acknowledged and
named."(Principle 7f)

"Substantial professional contributions may include formulating the
problem or hypothesis, structuring the experimental design, organizing
and conducting statistical analysis, interpretting the results, or
writing a portion of the paper...Lesser contributions, which do not
constitute authorship, may be acknowledged in a note (...).  These
contributions may include such supportive functions as designing or
building the apparatus, suggesting or advising about the statistical
analysis, collecting the data, modifying or structuring the computer
program, and arranging for for research subjects.  Combinations of these
(and other) tasks, however, may justify authorship..."

"The general rule is the name of the principal contributor should appear
first, with subsequesnt names in order of decreasing contribution."

"Authors are also responsible for the factual accuracy of their contributions."

_Publication Manual of the American Psychological Assn._  (3rd Edition).
 Hyattsville, MD:APA. Pages 20-21.

--Marcie Wallace
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 09:50:35 EDT
From: Carl Fago <CDF1@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Shootings
 <1992Aug27.161930.4166@relay.nswc.navy.mil>

>|>      The contempt-of-court action quoted electronic-mail messages sent by
>|> Fabrikant addressed ''to the community'' which attack the justice system
>|> and Quebec Superior Court Chief Justice Allan B. Gold.
>|>      In his action, Fabrikant described one professor as ''unable to do
>|> any of his own research.''

>So much for freedom of speech.

There is nothing wrong with the court ordering one to be silent until
such time as the case is decided.  Methinks that Fabrikant was spreading
news about the specific case and the judge told him to sit down and shut up.
From what I saw of Fabrikant's email, he wasn't of a mind to listen to some-
one who disagreed with him.  Thus, inspite of the judge, off he went with
his email.  Thus a contempt charge.  Seems reasonable to me.

 *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - cdf1@psuvm.psu.edu    | Be wary of strong drink.     |
             DELPHI - WULFGAR  GEnie - C.FAGO1| It can make you shoot at tax |
 Carl Fago   State College, PA                | collectors -- and miss!      |
From: tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Fabrikant, "mad" or "bad" ?
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:11:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: York University

Brad Wallet (bwallet@apssgi.nswc.navy.mil) ;
> I am still interested in whether the college is going to
> have to answer the charges made by Dr. Fabrikant.  I guess
> there is no disagreeing that his actions proved him mad,
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If by "mad" you mean frustrated/angry/desperate to the point of
considering violence, then that's tautologically redundant, since it is
clear that his actions were preceeded by such consideration.  Most of
us have all been "mad" at some time in that sense.  The difference
between him and thee-and-me is the Grace of God and that he went from
consideration to action.  However, if you mean "mad" in the modern
forensic-psychiatric sense, you appear to have no grounds for such
a judgement.  He may have been "mad" (angry, etc.).  But he may also
be "bad" (morally wrong and responsible for his actions) and not
"mad" (psychotic, legally insane).

> but his claims still should be examined.

Agreed.  But, as a colleague pointed out to me, his "intellectual crime"
may have been that his acations have made his specific issue, and
similar issues in general, harder to examine objectively and
dispassionately.

--
tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, Toronto, Canada
From: jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Stephen Jonke)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Two die, three hurt in university rampage - Montreal Gazette
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:22:29 GMT
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <disaacs.714756296@cunews>, disaacs@martha.carleton.ca (Dave Isaacs) writes:
> 
> This is from the Montreal Gazette, 25-August-1992
> 
> TWO DIE, THREE HURT IN UNIVERSITY RAMPAGE
> By Aaron Derfel, Geoff Baker, and Elizabeth Thompson
> 
> Montreal- A shooting rampage at Concordia University left two employees dead
> and three wounded Monday after a man walked into the university's main 
> downtown building with a handgun.

> The charges were based on a number of electronic on a number of Fabrikant's
> electronic mail messages.
> 

Has anything like this ever happened before?  That is, what we have here is
publically available copies of notes from a madman before their killing
spree.  In other situations the individual might write notes that in their
distorted view justified what they were about to do, but that would be
evidence not readily available to the public.

Although there may be some small degree of truth to what Fabrikant claimed, I
highly suspect that any person for whom these things could and does drive
them to commit a killing spree would be greatly distorting the truth for
themselves, and in this case for us as well.

Steve
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: lharris@upei.ca (Lora Harris)
Subject: Fabricant - problems with his CV
Organization: University of Prince Edward Island
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 11:49:15 GMT

One other piece of information which came out in the Montreal Gazette on 
Wednesday was that the academic information which Dr. Fabricant listed on 
his tenure application did not match that listed on his initial application 
to Concordia.  No further details were given, except that Dr. Fabricant 
became very angry when asked to produce proof of his doctorate.

	This is what the newspaper printed - I have no information or 
opinion as to whether there is any more or less truth in the university's 
allegations than in Dr. Fabricant's allegations.

				-Zant
Xref: sparky sci.research.careers:801 sci.research:931 talk.politics.guns:20240 soc.culture.canada:6147
From: uk09365@nx03.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers,sci.research,talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.canada
Subject: fabrikant finger
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:04:05 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

>finger ccyfk56@vax2.concordia.ca

[vax2.concordia.ca]

CCYFK56   V. Fabrikant       CCYFK56  not logged in
Last login  Mon 24-Aug-92  1:23PM-EDT

[no plan]

>ok

Robert K.
From: dstewart+@cs.cmu.edu (David B Stewart)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Montreal news of Fabricant 1
Date: 29 Aug 92 18:47:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon University
Cc: dstewart

In article <1992Aug28.235836.17668@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>
>He was reminded June 16 that he still needed the 5 letters before he could
>have a permit to carry his 6.35-mm pistol between house and club.  He was
>sent a new set of forms to complete.
	:
>Fabrikant returned to the dept on June 25.  He had four of the five
>required letters.  He didn't have one from his employer.

According to the Wed. Montreal Gazette, the secretary that was shot in the leg
by Fabrikant was one of the people that Fabrikant asked for a letter of
recommendation.  She did not give it to him; instead she notified her superiors
of his request.  (This might explain why he also shot the secretary!)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David B. Stewart  - email: <dstewart@cmu.edu>            The Robotics Institute
snail mail:       - ECE Dept., Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA 15213
Current Projects: - Chimera II Real-Time Operating System
		  - Reconfigurable Sensor-Based Control Systems
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: mwfolsom@hydra.unm.edu (Mike Folsom)
Subject: Re: Concordia shootings
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 17:40:09 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Aug26.035456.25427@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> rob@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Robert Robson) writes:
>The tragic events in Montreal point to the incredible pressure
>many academics are under.  Fabrikant made many accusations, which
>unprovable, remind us of things we all have witnessed.  As a
>result, I believe that at least some of his accusations are true.
>
>While I do not believe Fabrikant was in his right mind, he might
>never have gone over the edge without the treatment he received.
>Rather than just writing him off as "another nut" the academic
>community should take the opportunity to examine its practices.
>Perhaps some good could come of this so that Fabrikant's victims
>will not have died in vain.
>
>The media has compared this case to the last shooting in Montreal
>of the women at Ecole Polytechnique.  This bothers me, since this
>was a (temporarily?) insane disgruntled employee rather than just
>someone with a desire to kill women.  I think comparisons with
>other disgruntled employees who have gone gunning for
>bosses/co-workers would be more apt.  All of us would like to
>know the true story and this would be a great opportunity for
>some investigative journalism.

Thanks for posting this.  It helps to clarify the whole mess.
Hopefully, someone will take the time to investigate this 
situation and try to come to some understanding of what happened.

M -
From: bwallet@apssgi.nswc.navy.mil (Brad Wallet)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Do the police have Fabrikant's postings?
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:00:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center

I am still interested in whether the college is going to
have to answer the charges made by Dr. Fabrikant.  I guess
there is no disagreeing that his actions proved him mad,
but his claims still should be examined.

-------------------------------------------------
Brad Wallet                 Mathematician
bwallet@relay.nswc.navy.mil Naval Surface Warfare Center
(703)663-4950               (AVN)249-4950
DSMAC - "Tomahawk's Eyes"
"I can neither confirm nor deny that these opinions
are entirely my own and may or may not reflect those
of the US Navy." 
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Subject: Re: Two die, three hurt in university rampage - Montreal Gazette
Originator: clewis@bwdlh118
Organization: Eeee!
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:48:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.010329.25424@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> yamauchi@ces.cwru.edu (Brian Yamauchi) writes:
>My initial reaction to Fabrikant's articles was "why doesn't he just
>quit and find a position somewhere else?", but after reading some of
>the comments regarding the problems of foreign nationals in this
>country, I realized that this might have been easier said than done.

Fabrikant had been here for 14 years (most likely having at least
landed-immigrant or even citizenship status) and wasn't a student, so
I don't think that the "problems" mentioned apply - ie: failure to get
a grant wouldn't have forced him to leave the country.

Also, if you look at the conversation transcripts that Fabrikant included,
it's hard to see that his peers or superiors *were* pressuring him
in such a way.  One of the professors was the brunt of most of
the "theft" charges.  The transcript clearly shows that that
professor never requested, let alone demanded, that Fabrikant include
his name on Fabrikant's work.  So how could a charge of "theft" be
viable if Fabrikant, on his own initiative, *gave* it away?
From: will@rins.ryukoku.ac.jp (William Reiken)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Fabrikant and Concordia
Summary: Perhaps....
Date: 28 Aug 92 04:27:38 GMT
Organization: Ryukoku Univ., Seta, Japan

In article <1992Aug26.144643.29304@cc.umontreal.ca>, coady@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Coady Michael) writes:
>killed three people and wounded two more.  From what I can gather
>in the Montreal Gazette this morning, he failed to get most of the
>people he was after, whose activities had been described in detail
>here.
>
	Well perhaps the ones' he missed will have a few things too reflect
upon.

						Will...
From: primeaux@wham-o.cs.utk.edu (David Primeaux)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Murder: for or against?
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:40:52 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville - Department of Computer Science
Distribution: na
Reply-To: primeaux@wham-o.cs.utk.edu (David Primeaux)
NNTP-Posting-Host: wham-o.cs.utk.edu

In article <4840@daily-planet.concordia.ca>, mjassels@cs.concordia.ca (Michael Assels) writes:
|> I can't believe what I'm reading here, day after day.  A man murders three
|> people (unrelated to his troubles, if that matters) and he develops a fan 
|> club in sci.research.careers!  Hello?  Is anybody out there?
|> 
|> Followups to alt.bizarre
|> 
|> +-------------------------------+----------------------------------+
|> | Michael Assels, Analyst       | Everything is what it is and not |
|> | Comp. Sci., Concordia Univ.   | another thing.                   |
|> | 1455 de Maisonneuve O         |    - Aristotle (or someone else) |
|> | Montreal, Quebec, H3G 1M8     +----------------------------------+
|> | Voice: (514) 848-3030         |     mjassels@cs.concordia.ca     |
|> +-------------------------------+----------------------------------+

None of the articles *I* have read give any indication that the
author supports Fabricant's (alleged) murders.  On the other hand,
several people have written that *despite* his actions, the claims
of academic dishonesty should be investigated.  I personally agree 
with this position.  As another poster implied (I have lost the
name):  to do otherwise is to embrace an argumentum ad hominum
(abusive) -- and this is a logical fallacy.  The veracity of his 
claims is a question independent of his subsequent actions, regardless
how vile or attractive those actions might be.

-- David
primeaux@cs.utk.edu

Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: buick@belay (Patrick D. Buick)
Subject: Re: Job seekers! Beware of small univerisites
Organization: Belay Enterprises Inc. Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:30:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.124530.2910@tc.cornell.edu> bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:
>The story about V.I. Fabrikant is not the only case that
>reached my mailbox. Few months ago I have received the attached
>message. Again, I have no connections to the case, it just
>reached my mail box.
>
Story of Northern Colorado deleted...

This is not an isolated matter.  Things like this are occurring all over
the continent.  Something can be done, however it seems to me that it
is a symptom of a society with sick value systems and a lack of pride.

Oh well, one does what one can, and can't die of the stress.  Play the
system with its' politics enough to survive and do what you can to 
improve it.


-- 
==========================================================
Patrick D. Buick EMT, EET  | Internet: buick%belay@uunet.uu.net
Belay Enterprises Inc.     | Internet: buickp@cuug.ab.ca
Calgary, Alberta, Canada   | UUCP:...!calgary!pixel!belay!buick
From: bwallet@apssgi.nswc.navy.mil (Brad Wallet)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Shootings
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:19:30 GMT
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center

|> 	The contempt-of-court action quoted electronic-mail messages sent by
|> Fabrikant addressed ''to the community'' which attack the justice system
|> and Quebec Superior Court Chief Justice Allan B. Gold.
|> 	In his action, Fabrikant described one professor as ''unable to do
|> any of his own research.''

So much for freedom of speech.


|> 	The latest, scheduled to be heard next month, is against The Royal
|> Trust Company which he accuses of refusing to pay him $245 in interest
|> on his RRSPs. Fabrikant charged that he ordered the trust company to
|> transfer his funds to another company in April.
|> 	Royal Trust says it mailed the cheque April 23 but it was returned
|> because of insufficient postage and had to be sent again. Fabrikant said
|> he finds that hard to believe and charges that the trust company had his
|> money in its possession from April 18 to May 6 and owes him the interest
|> for those 18 days.

Checks in the mail!  I believe that one.  Anyway, they kept his money due
to an error on their account.  Sounds to me like he is right.

-------------------------------------------------
Brad Wallet                 Mathematician
bwallet@relay.nswc.navy.mil Naval Surface Warfare Center
(703)663-4950               (AVN)249-4950
DSMAC - "Tomahawk's Eyes"
"I can neither confirm nor deny that these opinions
are entirely my own and may or may not reflect those
of the US Navy." 
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine)
Subject: Re: Fabrikant
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:20:18 GMT

lseltzer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Linda A. Seltzer) writes:

>levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:

>>There are books available on how to protect yourself from 
>>backstabbing and unethical power trips in an organizational setting.
>>
>>May I suggest the following:
>>
>>Games Mother Never Told You About (not exact title) by Marilyn Moats
>>Kennedy.
>>
>>And, of course, there's always The Prince, by Macchiavelli.

>I don't think this is the answer.  I don't want to become like
>the perpetrators and descend to their level and have my mind
>clouded with thoughts about these things.  I'm really talking
>about having the strength in a deep spiritual sense.

Strength in a deep spiritual sense is certainly important, but ...
I fail to see what is wrong with protecting yourself from the 
unethical actions of others.  

Newsgroups: sci.research.careers