From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: Recurring nightmares
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:21:14 GMT

In article <C0EoH4.DBw@twwells.com> anon-1534@twwells.com (Suzanna) writes:
>
>   >can't seem to. Is there anything I can do, without going outside, to
>   >change this? I read the FAQ, but I don't wake up until after the dream
>   >is finished, and then it's too late.
>
>   Here are a couple of guesses....One would be to imagine the dream while
>   you're awake, and choose better outcomes then.
>
>How do I choose a better outcome? The nightmare starts off bad (I'm
>sorry, I don't know of a better term) and get worse. 

There are books on lucid dreaming by LaBerge that give examples of alternate
ways that dreams can go, I think. (It might be LeBerge.) Patricia Garfield
is good about dreams, too.

I don't know the details of your dream, so I can't be specific, but a
better outcome would probably be you defeating what scares you or changing
it into something benevolant. I realize that such a change can be very
hard to imagine.

>   This other one would probably stir up a lot of pain, but might be useful.
>   See if the dream reminds you of any memories. Feel what was going on then.
>   If all your feelings want is to be felt, then feeling them directly means
>   that you don't have to have nightmares to feel them. (This is based on
>   Janov's Primal Scream stuff as I understand it--I tried it and stirred up
>   more pain than I was willing to handle.)
>
>I'm sorry, I should have been more specific in my post. The nightmare
>is directly from my memories. It is a compilation of a few memories
>about incidents when I was younger. Normally sleeping is nice to me; I
>have had some wonderful dreams, but since this nightmare has come
>back, it's as bad as it is when I'm awake.

As I understand the Primal Scream stuff, the essential part is deciding
to fully feel those old memories, but I'm not an expert in it, and I 
would strongly recommend that you get more information than I've got
before you pursue that path, if you decide to pursue it at all. Arthur
Janov is the founder of the system, and has written some books about it.

>   You might want to check _Urban Shaman_ by Serge Kahili King--it's very
>   a very strong but not self-destructive approach to internal states. 
>
>Thank you, I will see if the library has it.

If it doesn't, a New Age bookstore (or a bookstore with a good New Age
section) might have it.

>   This just means that you're hanging out with people who don't suit you.
>   Try rec.arts.books or science fiction conventions. Also, some people just
>   need more alone time than others, and the more social sorts tend not to
>   understand this.
>
>Thank you for your suggestion; I shall expand my newslist accordingly.
>
There's also a group called alt.dreams that might be a good place to get
advice on how to deal with nightmares.

>   Reading is life!  :-)
>
>It is wonderful to hear someone say that!

I'm glad it helped.

>   Read any good books lately?  I recommend _Moonwise_ by Greer Ilene Gilman--
>   it's in a very difficult style, but once I fought my way into the writing,
>   I found that it worked magnificently well emotionally.
>
>I'm sorry, mostly I read textbooks for my upcoming university courses.
>I don't have much time during term, because I have to go to work as
>well. But I read Franz Kafka's _The Trial_ last year, and have started
>on _The Castle_, and I also dip into the _Gormenghast_ trilogy by
>Mervin Peake occassionally.

I'm glad you're at least getting in some just-for-fun reading.

>   If you quit apologizing, I'll forgive you.
>
>I'm sorry, I don't really know any ettiquette, on the net or out of
>it. I was taught that if I did something wrong I shoud apologise, and
>accept the punishment without rancour.
>
I'm not sure if there's a way for me to handle this as gently as I want
to, but there's nothing in nettiquette against apologizing a lot. It's
ok if you do. It just seemed to me that you were apologizing long before
you'd done anything remotely offensive, and I was sort of kidding. If
I'd seen your other post about how lonely you felt, I wouldn't have said
it. 

That idea about apologizing and punishment sounds like it would be a 
better deal for the people teaching you than it is for you. (I'm not
saying that apologizing is always bad--I do it myself, but it seems to
me that you're keeping yourself in a one-down position.)

If you're willing to try the experiment, you could post something with
no apologies in it and find out if anything awful happens.

I believe that if you came from a dysfunctional family, you'll find
that almost everyone will treat you better than your parents did. 
(This applies unless you run afoul of a government or are in a war 
zone.)

>Should this be conducted via email? I don't know if anyone else is
>interested in this reply.

I'd as soon keep this in the newsgroup, partly because I think that 
other people here will be interested (loneliness and feeling that 
other people are always right compared to oneself are _common_ problems)
and partly because I don't feel very sure about what I say to you,
especially the tone. I don't want to come off as so self-assured
that you feel squelched again, but there are things I want to say.
I'm hoping that some of the more nurturing people here will supply
a balance. 
>
Nancy