HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: WHY?
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:50:52 GMT
Reply-To: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk
Organization: Chemical & Process Engineering Dept, University of Newcastle, UK.

wdickeson@mta.ca writes:
>  JESUS NEVER WORE A SKIRT WITH MATCHING HEELS YOU PERVERTED SEX FREAK!!!!
 How do you know! have you got a time machine to go and see?
 Didn't Jesus, and all the men of that time were a garment which was
 similar to a dress.  Surely they did not wear trousers?

 does the New Testament not mention about Jesus associating with the
lowest of the low - the prostitutes and tax collectors.  Well if 
there were TV's arouund then might he not also have chosen to associated
with them.

>  NOW GO BACK TO YOUR CLOSET OR SOMETHING!!!!!!
  Remember the saying "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

  If you think transvestites are perverted then what do you think 
of homeovestites?  Should they be forced to wear clothes of the 
opposite sex to prevent them getting sexually stimulated from wearing
certain clothing of their own sex
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: N2SX <N2SX@UNB.CA>
Subject: RE: Curious
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 21:27:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.040950.25071@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> mamacdonald@mta.ca (Steve MacDonald) writes:
>  Could someone please explain to me just how they get the rich
>creamy chocolate inside the Caramilk bar?  Thanks.
>
>                                          Don Guerdo
>.
>.
Well, I have several theories on this.  The most likely seems to be
that they freeze the caramel and pour out a sheet of chocolate.
Then they drop the frozen caramel pellets on to the sheet and pour
another layer of chocolate over them.  (chocolate doesn't form seams
when is freezes to an existing piece of chocolate).  Then they stamp
the little Caramilk logo on the bumps, and cut the chocolate bars
out.

Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an1167@anon.penet.fi (Rita)
Subject: Let's get past this hatred, please?
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:16:07 GMT

Fellow readers,

When I first started reading this newsgroup, I was struck by how caring
everyone was, and how willing to share personal and sometimes painful
experiences.

When I first saw the one-liner message to which many seem to be replying now,
I remember thinking "wow - outright hatred.  This person must feel really
threatened."  I also believe this is why we have groups like this in the first
place - because there are ignorant (in the true sense of the word) and
sometimes hateful people out there who want to destroy things simply because
they're different.

I would really like to propose that we get past this incident and continue
with the more supportive and helpful discussions that have been going on.  This
group means a lot to many people - if only to know that they're not alone.

Sorry about getting on the soapbox.

*hugs*

Rita

p.s. just so I follow my own rules, just thought I'd let you know that the
discussion about hosiery on this group encouraged me to immediately go buy
a pair of pantyhose and wear them - I love it!
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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Subject: Re: You bunch of freaks
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:50:57 GMT

Neil.Rodgers@newcastle.ac.uk (Neil Rodgers) writes:

>You pack of sad bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I do get depressed on occasion, but my parent were definitely
married when I was born.  I can't speak for anybody else here, of
course.

Kelly
--
If you tell a [gay] child he or she is worthless, and that child commits
suicide--is that not like murder?
	-- Gene Ward Smith (gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: vyxter@ftp.com  (Vicki Streiff)
Subject: re: Me? Clueless? Naaah :)
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Keywords: blathering
Reply-To: vyxter@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:42:59

rks@cscns.com (gisle j benediktsson) writes:

>As for me, many would say that I am 'cross-gendered'. Mu typical mode
>of dress is loose jeans, boots, large sweaters or shirts. I only 
>wear one earring. I don't wear make-up. My hair is not 'styled'. (It
>is actually rather short with long strands of varying lengths just
>kind of randomly 'left there'. And, no, I have never seen it elsewhere.
>I thought of it one day, took a pair of scissors and did it.) I 
>do not wear a bra but I do have a pierced nipple. I also have pierced 
>labia. Because I want it. For no other reason. 

ahh, just the way i like women to look. :)  (comfortable, that is.)  
a former boyfriend once pointed out to me that i like butch women and
femme men.  he was utterly correct, i realized.  (isn't it funny the
things we have to be told before we realize them to be true?) anyway,
back to what gisle said.  you wouldn't happen to have broad shoulders,
dark hair, and a big friendly smile when you're not scowling, would
you?  ahh, no matter.

the original question, how do i know i am a woman, well, i'm going to
have to be unhelpfull nd say that i just do.  my gender identity
became very important to me because of my political beliefs.  i came
very close to completing a women's studies major at the women's
college i attended.  i studied feminism and was politically active as
a woman and as a bisexual person.  this is how being a woman was and
became more important to me.  i think if there was no sexism my gender
would be much less important to me.  it isn't something i enjoy being
concerned about.

to the fellow who has recently discovered so much about himself,
congratulations!  my advice to you would be that you should continue
to be open to new thoughts and new possibilities, but not worry about
it so much.  deal with the desire to cross-dress or bring out your
feminine side if and when it happens.  it is more important that you
get comfortable with who you are now than that you charge off seeking
other things that might be different.  so relax. :)  it sounds like 
you already have plenty to do.
--
love and spice,
		--vyxter
From: an827@anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Birth Certificates in the UK
Date: 15 Dec 92 07:16:47 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered

With reference to a previous article regarding the Europian Court
of Human Rights overruling in France allowing the change of Birth
Certificate:-

Does anyone know if there might now be a change in the law in the UK?
If I do eventually have SRS, and the law hasn't been changed, could
I challenege the law in the same way as these other people did?  I would
love to be able to get married one day; but as it stands the fact that
my birth-certificate can't be changed at the moment that this is a problem.

ALSO.  If I went to another country, such as Canada, to get married,
and returned to the UK - would this marriage still be considered 'legal'
in the UK?


Love 'n' Hugs,                    *M*E*R*R*Y* *C*H*R*I*S*T*M*A*S*
        Julie  XXXXX                         *A*N*D*
                                   *H*A*P*P*Y* *N*E*W* *Y*E*A*R*
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From: wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us (Wendy)
Date: 15 Dec 92 06:43:59 GMT
Subject: Re: test
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Organization: Wendy's world
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Kimberly Karsten (karsten@ultrax.alf.dec.com) wrote:
: 
: --
:   Test this is a test
: 
: 
: /*   Kimberly A Karsten, karsten@decatl.alf.dec.com | The heck with the brass
:  *   Digital Equipment Corporation                  | ring go for the Gold
:  *   5555 Windward Parkway west                     |
:  *   Alpharetta, GA. 30201-7407    USA              |
:  * The options express are mine and mine alone!
:  */

Hi Kimberly,

Got you test post in alt.transgendered just fine. How's the world
treating you????

Wendy
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an3229@anon.penet.fi
Subject: FAQ
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:07:44 GMT

I compiled an FAQ of sorts for the transgen mailing list.  I would be
willing to
help compile one for alt.transgendered.  I am currently asking the members
of
the mailing list if I can use post that material here so I'll let you know.

Christine

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Subject: Re: WHY? 
Distribution: world
Organization: Not much.
Reply-To: tony@morgan.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.18)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:12:31 +0000


In article <rsvanc00.724416161@mik.uky.edu> rsvanc00@nx34.mik.uky.edu writes:

>I didn't think that the Scots were PERVERTED, perhaps my viewpoint is
>self-centered, is there anyone out there who thinks that the Scottish
>are PERVERTED?

I would definitely say that most of the Scots that I know are perverted. 
However, I'm not sure that they constitute a representative sample :-)

Tony


+-----------------+-------------------------------+--------------------------+
| Tony Kidson     |A gigabyte of disk space - All | Voice +44 81 466 5127    |
| Morgan Towers,  |filled with inconsequential but| E-Mail                   |
| Morgan Road,    |Fascinating Trivia. It's slow  | tony@morgan.demon.co.uk  |
| Bromley,        |Enough Now, You want me to run | tny@cix.compulink.co.uk  |
| England BR1 3QE |Windows as well?               | 100024.301@compuserve.com|
+=================+===============================+==========================+
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: noid@nick.csh.rit.edu (i live in the dark)
Subject: Re: Against My Will
Organization: Computer Science House @ RIT
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:51:23 GMT

In article <610350@sundown.mil.wi.us> wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us (Wendy) writes:
>Rita (an1167@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
>: Stephanie,
>: 
>: Thanks so much for sharing that posting - it very clearly showed how many of
>: us feel and how strong the desires can be.  That took a lot of courage.
>: 
>: Did you know that Ernest Hemingway was also made to dress like a girl at an
>: early age, by his mother and sisters?  Some say that's one reason he went so
>: all out to be macho as a grown man.  Who can say...
>: 
>: Best of luck to you.
>: 
>: **hugs**
>: 
>: Rita
>
>I don't know about that. From the day I was born to about age 3 my mother
>dressed me as a girl and presented me to the world that way. I'm a pre-op
>TS, so I don't know about this macho thing..:-)
>
>Wendy


my mom dressed me almost exclusivly in blue.  always some kind of boyish
	outfit.  yet almost everyone said "what a cute little girl."
think this has anything to do with my being a m-to-f transsexual?
	and i am somewhat serious in my curiosity.


always wonderin' :  genetic or enviromental?
kathy


Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: rsvanc00@nx36.mik.uky.edu (Randolph S. Vance)
Subject: Re: WHY?
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Path: nx36.mik.uky.edu!rsvanc00
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:26:34 GMT

In <1992Dec12.201502.940@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> wdickeson@mta.ca writes:

> I HATE TO HAVE TO ASK YOU THIS BUT WHY IN GOD'S NAME WOULD
>ANYONE CHOOSE TO BE A CROSS-DRESSER?  NOT ONLY IS IT IMMORAL,
>UN-NATURAL,AND SINFULL, IT IS JUST PLAIN PERVERTED!!!!!!!!
>LET'S FACE THE FACTS - YOU ARE WHAT GOD CREATED YOU TO BE-
>EITHER A MAN OR A WOMAN! WHAT KIND OF BLASPHEMOUS SINNERS ARE
>YOU EXPECTING TO INTERFERE WITH GOD'S POWER. YOU SURE AS HELL CAN'T
>BE BOTH GENDERS THAT'S FOR SURE.
>   STOP FOOLING YOURSELVES AND COME BACK TO THE REAL WORLD.
>ATTEMPTING TO BE SOMETHING YOU'RE NOT (WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE DOING)
>IMPLIES DIRECTLY THAT YOU ARE SOMEHOW DISAPPOINTED WITH WHAT
>GOD CREATED YOU TO BE.
>   WE ARE ALL BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE IN OUR OWN RIGHT AND THE SOONER 
>YOU GAIN THE SELF-CONFIDENCE TO REALIZE THAT THE REAL YOU IS GOOD 
>ENOUGH FOR US ALL, THE BETTER OFF YOU'LL BE.
>   IN SHORT, TAKE THE DRESSES OFF YOU GAY IMMORAL FREAKS!!!
>                                    


Who are you to sit judgement of others and their actions? Is that
what Jesus got nailed to a tree 2000 years ago to defend? The narrow-minded
individuals who choose to use his name and his father's name unjustly for
their own wicked ends?
 
If you would climb down off your little soapbox for a minute, I would
like to pass some words of wisdom you may have overlooked in your bible.
 
"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR, and hate
your enemy.'
 
But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you
in order that you may sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His
sun to rise on THE eviland THE good, and sends rain on THE righteous and
THE unrighteous."
 
from Matthew 5:43-45
 
Now, a LONG time ago, Jesus spoke to the people of Israel about how
people should love each other and care each other instead of casting
stones and killing each other, solely because their ideals and beliefs
conflicted with others. Your ideology is that of the Romans, wanting
nothing but their own self-stylish beliefs over everyone elses. You
are not a Christian, sir and I pray for your soul and hope that you
will come to see the error of your ways.
 
If you care to respond, please do.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Randolph S. Vance
 
              RSVANC00@mik.uky.edu (NeXT Mail)
              RSVANC00@ukpr.uky.edu
              RSVANC00@ukcc.uky.edu
 
QUOTE: "I'll watch some TV, it'll help me to RELAX!"
              -Ren Hoek
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an2166@anon.penet.fi (Michelle)
Subject: also anon probs
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:14:00 GMT


I too am having trouble posting anonymously...will this make it?

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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Subject: Re: Enough, already! (Was Re: WHY?)
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:07:28 GMT

an1669@anon.penet.fi (Joanne Isabella Lisa Nicolette) writes:

>I'm quite sick of this Fundamentalist Christian drivel.  This
>newsgroup is intended for the discussion of gender dysphorisa,
>crossdressing, gender roles, etc.  It has NOTHING to do with
>religion.

Which is why I've stayed out of it, despite a strong desire not to.  I
haven't been a Christian for some time now, and the religious beliefs
I do follow don't carry a long list of moral and immoral acts.  

>Your claims that our crossdressing is "immoral, unnatural and
>sinful" mean absolutely nothing to me.

Crossdressing, like any other act, can be moral or immoral, depending
on a whole host of other factors.

Wearing clothes is unnatural.  I will thus grant that crossdressing is
also unnatural. :)

>There is no such thing as a sin.

"Sin" is a theological concept, closely related to the moral concept
of a morally wrong act.  For a person who believes in the Christian
God, sin exists.  For a person who does not, it does not. 

>While you claim to "have no hate for you, only your actions!", I
>cannot reciprocate.

This claim irks me no end.  I hear it all the time with respect to
gays.  I don't believe it for a minute when I hear it coming from the
mouth of someone arguing for the condemnation of gays.  Replace 'gays'
with 'crossdressers' and you get our dear friend who has been gracing
us with his verbal outpourings.

*sigh* 

Enough on this topic.  I think those of us who are here for a real
purpose can all agree that crossdressing is not inherently immoral.
Let's get beyond this and talk about reasonable topics.

Kelly
--
Do you regard the restroom wall as a private meeting?  No?  Why is a newsgroup
any different?
		-- Ian G Batten (igb@fulcrum.bt.co.uk), alt.censorship
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu (Lorraine Lee)
Subject: Re: Against My Will
Reply-To: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, MI
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 22:42:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.055123.3552@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, noid@nick.csh.rit.edu (i live in the dark) writes:

>my mom dressed me almost exclusivly in blue.  always some kind of boyish
>	outfit.  yet almost everyone said "what a cute little girl."
>think this has anything to do with my being a m-to-f transsexual?
>	and i am somewhat serious in my curiosity.

My units mentioned that "Lucille" was the other name they had in mind.  That
that topic will be discussed between (parental) units and (off) springs is to
be expected, but not at a frequency of about once a week.  I get the impression
that they were hoping for a girl.  (but of course I *so much* wanted "it" to be a
girl, so obviously I didn't pick this attitude up from them :)

>always wonderin' :  genetic or enviromental?

I like to think that it's purely Spiritual.  But I also concede the point that
thinking along spiritual lines tends also to be along wishful lines.

I don't count my self-perceived membership in the feminine gender as a
disappointment or burden.  My membership in the male biological sex, however...

I believe in God.  I must confess the tempation to irreverence, or at least the
temptation to mix complaints with my prayers, is real.

>kathy

Hang in there, kathy.

*hugs*
Lorraine.

PS,
No I will not answer any mail/article followups that are motivated by
authoritarian religious beliefs.  So don't waste your own time.
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an852@anon.penet.fi
Subject: test message
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 10:22:35 GMT

Hopefully this test message will work.

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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an1167@anon.penet.fi (Rita)
Subject: Re: Against My Will
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:36:55 GMT

> 
> In article <610350@sundown.mil.wi.us> wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us (Wendy) writes:
> >Rita (an1167@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
[some of my original posting deleted]
> >: 
> >: Did you know that Ernest Hemingway was also made to dress like a girl at an
> >: early age, by his mother and sisters?  Some say that's one reason he went so
> >: all out to be macho as a grown man.  Who can say...
[more deletion - trying to keep this short]
> >: 
> >: Rita
> >
> >I don't know about that. From the day I was born to about age 3 my mother
> >dressed me as a girl and presented me to the world that way. I'm a pre-op
> >TS, so I don't know about this macho thing..:-)
> >
> >Wendy
> 
> 
> my mom dressed me almost exclusivly in blue.  always some kind of boyish
> 	outfit.  yet almost everyone said "what a cute little girl."
> think this has anything to do with my being a m-to-f transsexual?
> 	and i am somewhat serious in my curiosity.
> 
> 
> always wonderin' :  genetic or enviromental?
> kathy
> 
> 
That's a good question - I never had any of these mixed messages as a child,
yet I clearly have some of the same desires as others here (mostly CDing).

There have been some very informative postings on other subjects here - anyone
care to comment or quote an authority on this?

Rita
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From: russw@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: hi
Date: 18 Dec 1992 19:27:48 -0600
Organization: Great Northern Hotel
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

In article <BzG985.A8x@cscns.com> rks@cscns.com (gisle j benediktsson) writes:
>Sally (an2764@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
>
>: I also am new to this group. I am a student who has been cross-dressing
>: for quite a while in private. I have been lucky so far and no-one has
>: found out. I have read most of your short "auto-biographies" and find
>: a lot of similarities between my feelings and yours. I am not sure if
>: I will ever get the courage to walk along the streets in a skirt, etc.
>: and I will probably remain a closet TV for the rest of my life.
>
>Sally, if someone doesn't start, no one ever will. :-)
>
>Why do you feel that you have to remain closeted? There is a quote I 
>read some time back -- I don't recall the author at this point -- but the
>gyst of it was this: those who oppress us have only two arms, two eyes
>and two legs with which to oppress us. They are the same as us. They 
>can not oppress us without our permission. 

Gisle is right of course; for ANY activity that society looks down upon,
if people wait for others to make it socially acceptable, then it will
never be socially acceptable.

I've recently done public crossdressing for the first time.  It was
exciting, liberating, fun, and more.  I don't plan (or desire) to crossdress
every day like many of the posters here, so I can't speak about that,
but Sally, I suggest you consider taking advantage of special occasions
like halloween or sf conventions to try public crossdressing.  It
worked for me... Also, I found that my friends were much cooler about
it than I thought they'd be; silly me, I wasn't giving them the credit
they deserved.  In fact I got no bad reactions.  No doubt this is partly
due from doing it at a con, and several times in the week leading up
to Halloween, so it was more socially acceptable.  People were nonetheless
surprised and intrigued.  It was fun!

Ultimately it is a daring thing to do, and there is the risk of getting
a bad reaction, either from a friend or a stranger... but then, many
worthwhile things have risk attached.

Russ
From: otto@vaxb.acs.unt.edu (M. Otto, "Virtual Prisoner of the VAX")
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: Net Shenanigans
Summary: *sigh*
Date: 20 Dec 92 20:38:04 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas

In alt.shenanigans article <1992Dec20.035206.21289@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>,
 dchiasson@mta.ca writes:
 
> A good newsgroup to raid is alt.transgendered. They get pretty irate when you
> post something in their group. Their responses are good for a laughor two.
> The takeover is actually in progress as of now. Join in on the fun.
> 
> 
> 							-Rascal

*sigh*

--
         __ ____ __      otto@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
 /|/|   / / / / / /  A virtual prisoner of the VAX     // I'm sorry; my karma
/   |. /_/ / / /_/  at The University of North Texas \X/  ran over your dogma
                             Denton, USA
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered