From: dag@control.lth.se (Dag Bruck)
Subject: Re: Hunting ability in Labradors
Organization: Department of Automatic Control, Lund, Sweden
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 07:04:45 GMT

The strong distinction between people who keep dogs for hunting and
people who keep dogs as pets is a little unfortunate, in my view.
Please allow me to argue for some middle ground with respect to
breeding.

First, you should know that we have a Welsh Springer Spaniel, which is
often described as a "dual purpose" dog, i.e., the same dog can be
used both for hunting and as a family companion.  The alternative view
is that the WSS has been "pettified" beyond rescue, and that serious
hunters should get a Working Springer instead (assuming that you need
a Spaniel).

My wife and I are also "pettified" beyond rescue.  We do not hunt, and
we completely lack the knowledge/experience/interest/grounds to
properly train a complete hunting Spaniel.  I have read a book though
[sic], so my posting should be judged accordingly (:-).

Now, here comes the controversial part:  I think we can still develop
original traits that would produce a hunting dog, to the extent where
an experienced person can evaluate the hunting potential of our dog.

Here's what we do with regard to some basic criteria:

Basic instincts.   Nellie (our dog, not my wife) is obviously
interested in wildlife, for example chasing rabbits.  She searches in
the typical zig-zag way in front of us, and she has natural searching
range of about 15-30 meters away from us.  She's also a natural
retriever.  I think all of this is very easy to observe without any
advanced training of either dog or human.

Trainability.  We train retrievs of a dummy.  On ground, in water, in
high grass, etc.  To make it a little more challanging we also train
her to wait until I give her a command to retrieve, and to deliver the
dummy properly.  All of this is very easy to do for an amateur.

We train and compete in agility, and I think agility plus the basic
obedience work involved is also a good indication of trainability.
The claim that agility may have a bearing on the usefulness as a
hunting dog is very controversial, at least here.

Working interest.  A hunting dog should have a natural willingness to
work.  I think the excercises listed above, and the agility training
in particular, is a good indication of your dog's willingness to work.
I should also emphasize that, in my view, willingness to work is more
the result of good training than of some basic genetic trait.

We are very good friends with one of the most experienced Welsh
Springer Spaniel breeders in Sweden.  She has bred WSS for 25 years,
and about half of all WSS with hunting titles in Sweden come from her
kennel, or have parents from her kennel.  The interest in hunting, and
the encouragement, has been essential for my wife and I.  Her view is
that our Nellie would have had good potential to become a good hunting
dog (by WSS standards).  I write "would have had" because at the age
of 3.5 years, it's too late to start serious training, and we will
never know for sure.

In summary, I claim:

1.  An amateur can do basic hunting training (e.g., retrieves)
    without much trouble.

2.  Agility training is a good indicator of working ability and
    trainability, and that agility experience may be carried
    over to evaluate the dog's usefulness as a hunter.

3.  That (1) and (2) are enough to evaluate the dog's potential as
    a hunting dog, assuming that the evaluator has the right
    experience.

Consequently:

A.  Dogs primarily kept as pets may be used for breeding hunting
    dogs, at least if you believe in the "dual purpose" concept.

B.  Hunting dogs may be sold to non-hunters, even for the purpose
    of breeding.

I would be very interested in your comments (flames gratefully
acknowledged), in particular regarding the claim that agility training
is useful for evaluating hunting dogs.  This IS a controversial issue!

Dag Bruck
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs