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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 11:00:33 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2885
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2885

                         Wednesday, August 19, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 695

                             Re: GUIDE DOG BLUES
                               Re: jaws stuff
                             Re: Access to GUI's
                   Using Vocal-Eyes and WordPerfect Office
                             Re: GUIDE DOG BLUES
                            Re: Lavender Braille
                                Re: Megadots
                              Buying a lap top
                               Blind Educators
                          Re: Teaching Math to the


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Subject: Re: GUIDE DOG BLUES
From: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2610/12 - Post Road Inn, Greensburg PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 CH> Hi,

 CH> I think your story would deserve some militancy.  I was refused service
 CH> in a Chinese restaurant (not all that uncommon), and I called to explain
 CH> that they must let me in.  They seem to understand now, but I haven't
 CH> been back to make sure.  I don't much want to go alone.

 CH> Then on my way to Charlotte, we stayed in a hotel in Illinois.  Though
 CH> they did not refuse me occupancy, when they discovered the dog, they
 CH> required me to move to a room which had old carpet and spread in case
 CH> the dog did any damage.  They should probably concern themselves with
 CH> such matters more when certain patrons come in after they've been out
 CH> doing some serious partying.

You know, I'm sympathetic on this and even feel an inclination to
make the motels pay for this one.  On the other hand, we are living
in the 90's--the self-righteous decade when people can complain
about not having a no-smoking room.  Who knows, maybe that's what
they're concerned about.  Would make an interesting civil
action--X's right to use a guidedog against Y's "rights" to have
his allergies taken into account.  Wonder what would happen.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2610!12!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: jaws stuff
From: Doug.Coyle@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Doug Coyle)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:377/6 - T.A.B.B., Tampa Fl


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

TW>when a phone number comes on screen jaws misses the first digit every
TW>time. I have yet to find a configuration where it will speak the whole
TW>phone number.

I sense the presence of a challenge.  It might be smart screen.  If
that first number doesn't change then smart screen won't pick it
up.  Just to further isolate the problem, turn off your screen echo
and put a phone number on the screen and tell Jaws to speak frame
zero and see if it picks up the number.  I know that configuration
is useless, but we may be able to figure out where the problem is.
Also, take your jaws cursor and put it on the phone number and do
an insert pad 5 and see if it says the whole phone number.

TW>another weird one I have a pc pursuit dialer that you tag entries in
TW>the city list and the bbs list by pressing the space bar.  this puts a
TW>plus mark to the left of the entry and jaws refuses to see the plus
TW>mark. what do you make of that?

Jaws version 2 has a feature which allows you to configure the
synthesizer's filters and such to manipulate certain things such as
the pronunciation of symbols.  You will find these in the "extra"
menu under universal under voice configurations.  To isolate the
problem turn anything off there that you cann and then set Jaws
symbols to all.  If that don't git it then reverse the process.
That way you will be able hopefully to tell whether Jaws or your
synthesizer is ignoring the punctuation.

===
 * SLMR 2.1a * If it ain't broke, let me have a shot at it !!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Doug.Coyle
Internet: Doug.Coyle@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Access to GUI's
From: Rick.Alfaro@f8.n369.z1.fidonet.org (Rick Alfaro)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:369/8 - The Catwalk BBS, Davie FL


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 GP> All,
 GP>    I addressed this to all because David has brought up a point
 GP>    that's of interest to all who have an interest in access
 GP>  software.  I suspect many are just ignoring the messages
 GP>  between us at this point, because our discussion seems to have
 GP>  passed the point of relevance.

 GP> David Tanner writes:
 DT>>         My hope is that IBM will come up with a product for OS2 that is
 DT>> so easy to use, so user friendly, and provides such
 DT>> complete access to OS2 and Windows that we will truly
 DT>> feel that the speech software has become transparent to
 DT>> our use of a computer.  Unfortunantly, their present

 GP> To borrow a phrase from my previous work in Ada compilers,
 GP> there's no silver bullet.  Unfortunately I don't think any
 GP> company is going to develop an access system for any GUI that
 GP> will be easier than what we currently have for DOS.  The
 GP> environment is inherently more complex, and the access software
 GP> is going to reflect that.  The high lofty goal that everyone
 GP> should be aiming for is for the access software to provide
 GP> blind users with the same benefits of a graphical user
 GP> interface that sighted users perceive they get from it.  If
 GP> that goal can be attained, then blind users will prefer the
 GP> graphical user environment for the same reason that sighted
 GP> users do.  Like I said, that's a pretty lofty goal. We'll see
 GP> what everyone can provide.

Greg,

I pretty much agree with what you are saying here, and feel that your
thinking is quite sound.  Unfortunately, the only 2 companies that
currently offer anything for windows or os2 are the only 2 companies
that offer no demo!  Slimware offers none with the ludicris excuse that
"blind people don't have access to windows", so why offer a demo...Maybe
you can figure out that reasoning?  I just read in a previous message
that a demo was being talked about at IBM and certainly hope that
something comes of it...

We have a very unique situation I believe with respect to demos and
windows.  Most demos have a time restriction on them as you probably
know.  This approach however may not be the correct one in this case.
The user has the very difficult task of evaluating the speech software,
while at the same time, being totally unfamiliar with the windows
environment.  Because of this unique situation, I feel that a demo of
this type should have some other type of restriction other than a time
limit.  Perhaps disabling a few features on the demo would be better
than having the software poop out after 20 minutes of use.  Those are
just my thoughts and I wanted to share them with you.  Please keep me
informed of any progress with respect to a Screen Reader demo...

Regards,
Rick

... Silver Xpress....Now 100% QWK Compatible! More bang for your bucks!

--
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Internet: Rick.Alfaro@f8.n369.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Using Vocal-Eyes and WordPerfect Office
From: Les.Kriegler@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Les Kriegler)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:260/207 - The Recovery Room, Rochester NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I spoke with Doug about the problem I had previously reported
with Vocal-Eyes locking up under the WordPerfect Shell in
Office.  He is aware of the problem, and states that by
disabling the autoloading feature, the program will work
properly.  This is indeed the case.  The autoloading feature
is invoked by starting Vocal-Eyes with the following
parameter, Ve /a0.  If anyone is having problems with the
Shell, this should solve it.  I also contacted WordPerfect
Corporation, and hopefully, they will be in contact with Doug
on this one.  Regards, Les

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!260!207!Les.Kriegler
Internet: Les.Kriegler@f207.n260.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: GUIDE DOG BLUES
From: Ted.Filteau@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Ted Filteau)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:101/460 - VI/BUG, Holbrook MA


 KR> because my friend Vixen and I are taking a 10 day trip to New
 KR> England and I thought it would be very nice to spend one night
 KR> in an expensive motel on the tip of Cape Cod overlooking the
 KR> ocean.  Because of the flat out disregard for guide dog laws, I
 KR> was robbed of the chance to enjoy a nice stay at Cape Cod (All
 KR> the other affordable motels are full up, these were the only
 KR> two I find vacancies in).

Hi Kris,
As a Massachusetts resident, I am surprised to hear about this sort of
treatment of you and Vixen.  I don't use a dog myself, but the only
kind of establishment I have observed a problem with guide dogs are
chinese restaurants.  I think that part of your problem may be that this
is prime time for tourists on the Cape.  I think once you get into this
area, you could find a place, as the local economy isn't doing that
well.  If you want to have some assistance with filing a complaint, I
suggest you contact Charles Crawford who is the commissioner for the
local state agency for the blind, and is a dog user.  You can leave him
a message here, as he checks in on occasion, or call the Massachusetts
commission for the Blind BBS at (617) 451-5327.
Good luck, and I am sorry and surprised to hear about this incident.
Ted

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460!Ted.Filteau
Internet: Ted.Filteau@f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Lavender Braille
From: Warren.Figueiredo@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Warren Figueiredo)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I suppose the biggest difference was that the Lavender did not work
well. The action was sluggish and quite frankly it felt cheap.

Lavendar buyers soon learned that they had lemons on their hands. I've
been told that those shipped to South America fared poorly in the
climate.

It's gone and deservedly so.
Warren

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Warren.Figueiredo
Internet: Warren.Figueiredo@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Megadots
From: Warren.Figueiredo@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Warren Figueiredo)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

MegaDots can import/export to Q&A Write 1.0 and Q&A 3.0 and 4.0. These
conversions are part of the supplemental conversion packages.

I have never worked with any Q&A files.
Warren

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Warren.Figueiredo
Internet: Warren.Figueiredo@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Buying a lap top
From: Barbara.Akin@p0.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Barbara Akin)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:114/15.0 - St Joes Hospital, Phoenix AZ


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi All,
I am in the process of buying a new lap top note book size computer.
I think the one I like best presently, is the Toshiba 2200SX.
Are any of you out there using that model, and if not, if you are using
a note book size machine, what is it, and what models do you like using.
I know I'd have to use external speech synthicizer with it, but that
would not bother me.
I would also need to show graphics on it, (with a color VGA monitor
pluggged into the screen port)
This is obviously for my colliuges wh would be working with me.
So, if any one has any other good suggestions on good, durable lap top
note book size computers, please let me know.
It has to be a very sturdy machine, as I will be traveling quite a bit
with it, and my entire business will be kept track of on it.
Againthanks for any help you may be able to give here.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!114!15.0!Barbara.Akin
Internet: Barbara.Akin@p0.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Blind Educators
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

To: Phillip@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Phillip)

In a message to All <17 Jul 92 18:36> Phillip wrote:

 Ph> I would like to get in touch with
 Ph> blind public school teachers.  A
 Ph> blind student who is graduating this
 Ph> summer from Purdue University
 Ph> needs some encouragement about the
 Ph> possibilities for employment in
 Ph> the public schools.  She will have a Master's in English
 Ph> Literature, and I would say is one of
 Ph> the most intelligent students
 Ph> I haver known.  She tells me that she

Hello, Philip.

Have her contact Pat Munson.  She is the President of the Division of
Blind Educators of the National Federation of the Blind.  I do not have
Ms. Munson's address/phone-number handy but you or the student can get
these from the headquarters of the National Federation of the Blind at
1800 Johnson Street; Baltimore, MD 21230; Telephone (410)659-9314.  I
think your student will gain much encouragement and receive a wealth of
information, ideas and leads to other teachers with which she can talk
from Ms. Munson.  In other words, she will have a glorious chance to
"network" -- we sure can massacre the English language by turning nouns
into verbs, can't we <grin>.

Does the student have the ED courses needed to teach?  That may be part
of her problem getting jobs if she does not.  It's quite likely, though,
that she's running into the usual discrimination against the blind.
Tell her to have heart; there have been many successful blind teachers
for forty years (though some still have to fight like hell to win the
chance to prove themselves).  She'll make it with the right attitude,
skillful use of alternative techniques of blindness and talent.

Mike Freeman
... *The National Federation of the Blind is changing what it means to be
 blind.*
___ CRR QWK 1.40

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!126!Mike.Freeman
Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Teaching Math to the
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

To: martin@trout.nosc.mil (Douglas Martin)

In a message to All <17 Jul 92 18:44> Douglas Martin wrote:

 DM> Having read several replies to the
 DM> questions about learning math as
 DM> a blind person, I have some additional
 DM> ideas and experiences which
 DM> might be valuable.  I am a totally blind acoustics research
 DM> scientist; my undergrad major was
 DM> physics; and, of course, I had to
 DM> study lots of math including calculus,
 DM> statistics, and linear
 DM> algebra.

Not to mention differential equations and multivariate calculus <grin>.
Ah, it sounds oh so familiar.  My undergraduate degree was a B.A. in
physics and I have an M.S. in physics also, although I'm now a computer
programmer (they were more needed at the time I got out than were
physicists <grin>).  Before going further, I shall say that this (your)
post is the most sensible of those I've seen on this subject in this
echo.  BTW, I have RLF (now ROP) and only see light.  It's cool to meet
someone else who dared to take math and the sciences.

 DM> If Braille can be used, the task of learning math is, in my
 DM> opinion, much easier.  I paid a little
 DM> extra and worked hard to get
 DM> all my calculus books transcribed into
 DM> Braille Nemeth code, even
 DM> though most of the books were
 DM> available on tape.  (Have you ever
 DM> listened to a tape recording of a trig
 DM> table?!)  Braille affords

Listening to a topology text on tape is by far worse! <grin>

 DM> the ability to lay oud data in tabular
 DM> form, to write equations on
 DM> several lines, and to review specific
 DM> groups of symbols.  From
 DM> tape, checking the precedence of
 DM> parentheses and brackets is nearly
 DM> impossible.

I wouldn't go quite *that* far.  However, as you indicate below, audio
materials, to be intelligible and useful, must be read *very* carefully
by someone who knows what he/she's doing.  It's by far easier to
understand math materials when they've been transcribed into Braille.  I
also paid to have books transcribed; I still have them all, including
Hans Bethe's famous paper outlining the quantum mechanics of the
hydrogen atom.

[Rest of fine post deleted]

I had little trouble with graphs, although, as you say, isometric
drawings just don't cut it for the fingers!  I used a AFB raised-line
drawing kit also; my father used to draw some diagrams/graphs using a
tracing wheel on Braille paper (one must do this upside down so that the
graph comes out right on the other side of the paper) and, in the case
of some multidimensional functions, the math proff I had at the time had
the functions constructed in wood so that one could easily see the
various maxima and minima, saddle-points, etc.

I agree completely with all your other comments; I believe good Braille
skills to be almost (not quite but almost) a prerequisite to really do
well in advanced math.  But it's certainly doable and it really
irritates me when those who advise the blind discourage them from trying
math and the sciences.

Fellow BlinkTalkers, be sure to save Mr. Martin's post; it's the sanest
thing I've seen here yet on this subject (as I said).

Mike Freeman < K 7 U I J >

P.S.  I believe the evidence that RLF causes spatial problems is slim to
nonexistent. -MF-
... ** "A cynic is right nine times out of ten." -- H. L. Mencken **
___ CRR QWK 1.40

--
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Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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                  End of Issue # 2885 of the Handicap Digest

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