HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Bird, Jordan, Magic...
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:05:47 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <9dWq03vm6adW00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>, ronnie@uts.amdahl.com
(Ronnie Townsend) writes:
|>From: ronnie@uts.amdahl.com (Ronnie Townsend)
|>Subject: Re: Bird, Jordan, Magic...
|>Date: 25 Aug 92 22:06:56 GMT
|>
|>In article <1992Aug25.204259.9291@das.harvard.edu>
vreddy@das.harvard.edu (Venkatesh Reddy) writes:
[Stuff Deleted]

|>>That's the point... you see, they met almost without wavering in the
finals every 
|>>year, as well as twice a year during teh regular season, and the
entire season
|>>to many fans was played BUILDING UP for this intense showdown between
the two 
|>>greatest players of the 80's. Sure, the Sixers and the Celts had an intense
|>>rivalry, but the Lakers rivalry was the most memorable.
|>
|>Well, it may have been memorable but they "only" met in the finals
three times.
|>84,85 and 87. One or the other was *in* every final in the 80's (Magic in 8, 
|>Bird in 5) which has got to say something! Certainly both the Sixers
and Lakers
|>rivalry were both intense and memorable. The Laker rivalry was simply moreso 
|>because it only happened when the spotlight was burning brightest. 

Yup, they met thrice in the finals and only one series went to 7. In 84, the
Celts won in 7. In 85, the Lakers won in 6, and in 87, the Lakers won again
in 6. 

Incidentally, Philly met the Lakers thrice in the Finals in the 80's. The 
famous Magic starting at center and scoring 42 pts comes to mind.

I'm not arguing that they were not great teams, just that I didn't see that
great a rivalry between the 2 players. Sure the teams got "up" against each
other, but it wasn't like Magic vs. Bird, with each trying to outdo the other.
Magic had Kareem as the go to guy, and Bird had pretty good support up front.
It was a team rivalry.

Anyways, this is pretty subjective, and I would agree that boxing rivalries
like Ali-Frazier were more intense IMO.

Ron

|>Ronnie
|>-------------------------------------------------------------
|>I'm not cynical... I just don't believe in anything....
From: vreddy@das.harvard.edu (Venkatesh Reddy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Magic Johnson
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:58:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Aug26.135850.24787
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <1992Aug26.053547.23588@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, rda446x@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (S.A. Mccoy) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug25.192309.7676@cc.umontreal.ca> iacurtop@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Iacurto Paul) writes:
|> >
|> >LA Lakers             Magic's return will still not be enough
|> 		       ^^^^^^^
|> 		       Is it offical now
|>         
|> 
|> 

Not yet, but VERY close... he is very sure he wants to come back, and he
probably will.. keeping those fingers crossed. :)

-- Venk --
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Subject: Re: Bird, Jordan, Magic...
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Reply-To: koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:52:35 GMT

In article <8c1703qY6am.00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> ronnie@uts.amdahl.com (Ronnie Townsend) writes:
>I think you're oversimplifying. Bird got acclaim because he was good
>*and* because he is white.  Anyone who lives in America and denies this has his
>head ... well buried somewhere.. 
>
>Bird has not ever, would not ever and will not ever be called upon to guard 
>MJ in a game. He is not a good enough one-on-one defender to be equal to the 
>task, though Jordan certainly has been called upon to take on Bird man-up. 

You dont get famous by playing great D.  Jordan is famous for scoring 30+
a night, not for being the great defender he is as well.  Your point is
irrelevent.  Black or white Larry's probably the best all-around offensive
player to ever play, which is why he's famous.  And, black or white he
sucked at defense.  As an example, Michael Copper may have been the best
defender ever - will he make the hall-of-fame?  Would you have even heard
him had he not played on a few championship teams?

>On that front Jordan is clearly superior.  He is also superior to Magic in that
>sense.

Agreed.  He's famous because he's unstopable at 1-1 offense and can score at
will against *any* opponent, not just Bird.  Where does black/white come into
play here?

Bird and Magic made the NBA by getting people to watch the tube.  Actually
Dr. J kept it afloat in the 70s, but Larry and Magic made the NBA what it
is today.  Everyone wanted a Boston/LA final to watch those two go at it.
That's what made the NBA as popular as it is today and Michael's 30+ million
wouldn't be here today without them.  It doesn't matter how good you are,
getting people to watch your sport is the ultimate goal.
--
Harry Koehnemann
koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 2 Sep 1992 15:39:31 CDT
From: <U51115@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: REASONS WHY AUSTRALIA COULD KICK DT!

In article <1992Sep1.035426.224@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, blip@tartarus.uwa.edu.au
(Bryan Lip) says:
>
>HERE ARE SOME VALID REASONS WHY AUSTRALIA COULD BEAT THE USA TEAM THAT
>COMPETED IN BARCELONA, COMMONLY KNOW AS THE DREAM TEAM (PROBABLY BECAUSE
>THEY'RE ALL HALF ASLEEP?)
>
  Here are 3 reasons why Australia could never beat the Dream Team:
      1) Michael Jordan- his ability to score at will. The only person that
         could beat Michael Jordan is God. Nuff said.
      2) Charles Barkley- the only human to take on Godzilla and win.
      3) YOU!!- we could stick your sorry illiterate ass on the court with
         Laettner, the towel boy, Jordan and Drexler and the DT would still
         beat your Australian "Dream Team". BTW Defensive is with an "S"
         not a "C".:-)

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Subject: Re: Basketball HOF (Was: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird)
Organization: Bell Northern Research Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:42:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.204435.22591@cci632.cci.com> dxj@cci632.cci.com (Dennis Joyce) writes:
>
>AND...
>
>You never know who you will bump into... I ran into Rick Fox of the Celtics
>while strolling around... I guess he was there to give an autograph session
>for Salem Sports Clothing. He was comming in a backdoor and I physicaly ran into
>him. He was very polite (I don't know what I expected but I was pleasently
>surprised). I asked him for a autograph and he pulled a picture (8x10 glossy)
>out of his managers (or press guy's) bag and signed it on the spot. I thanked
>him and he returned pleasantries Very nice indeed...

He's a Tarheel, what did you expect?

-- 
Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
Bell Northern Research, Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: timlin@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Timlin)
Subject: Re: Utah Jazz
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:58:53 GMT

lej@pdn.paradyne.com (Leo James) writes:

>In article <MedX=WG00awCMItkMM@andrew.cmu.edu> Daniel Reid Helsten <dh4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>Does anyone out there have any info on the Jazz?  Their lineup?  How are
>>they supposed to do this year?  It looks like the west will be more
>>exiting than ever with Barkley on the Suns.  Now he and Malone can play
>>each other twice as much.

>No info, but a question.  Do you think that the refs let more contact
>go on in the eastern conference than out west?  I think that they do.
>If this is true, this could negatively affect Charles next season be-
>cause he may find himself in foul trouble moreso than before.  I will
>be interested in watching how this develops.

Or he may draw fouls even faster than Malone.

Mike Timlin
timlin@spot.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: sting@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Joe Bennett)
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Organization: Development Tools Operation, Intel Corp., Hillsboro, OR
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 00:15:32 GMT

In article <Btz1AL.EJ8@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dmd39855@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel M. DuBois) writes:
>msmiller@Rational.COM (Mark Miller) writes:
>>"Somewhat better?" That's like saying Dan Quayle is "somewhat stoopid."
>
>>Fact is the Lakers and Celtics won many a game where Bird or Magic
>>scored under 10 points. They didn't have to rely on their scoring, 
>>although they could score pretty freakin' well. I seem to recall some
>>amazing Bird shootouts - 50+ points. In his prime, they weren't all
>>that rare either. So, how is Jordan's 50+ point game "much better" than
>>Bird's or Magic's? Do tell. Points is points.
>
>>________________________________________________________________________
>>Mark S. Miller                                     msmiller@Rational.COM
>
>well maybe its that Jordan has so many more of them.....
>
>Theres an easy way to solve this folx... add up everyone's points per game
>average and assists per game average (times 2) for the last 5-6 years and
>compare...
>
>-Dan
>
>Jordan is God.

Answer me this... Are you one of those rotisserie (sp) geeks?
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Danny Ferry - Did he err?
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:02:00 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson



 Did I ever tell you about the time Sean Elliott shot the game winning
3-pointer over Danny Ferry up in Jersey??? I did? OH -  OK then, never
mind.....


				gln

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: lange@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Trent Lange)
Subject: Re: Trevor Wilson Update
Organization: UCLA Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 21:36:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.185833.17474@intelhf.hf.intel.com> gregt@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Greg Tollefson) writes:
>
>My favorite memory of Trevor was in a game against Stanford
>a few years back.  UCLA had a nice lead going into the second half.
>Stanford started a little run.  Trevor gets called for a charge then
>a T for arguing with the ref.  I can clearly remember the knuckle-
>dragging-chin-extended-who-me-look on Trevor's face when the ref 
>blew the whistle.  Stanford ended up rallying to win and send the Bruins
>into their patented slide.  

Yeah, yeah -- he had to give Stanford fans *something* to be happy about.

The best thing about Trevor, however, was that he taught Don MacLean
everything he knew...

- Trent Lange

-- 
*************************************************************************
*   UCLA:  More National Championships than you can shake a stick at    *
*          in a whole bunch of sports -- and academics, too!            *
*************************************************************************
From: edrury@3cpu.rain.com (Ed Drury)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Date: 27 Aug 92 09:34:13 GMT
Reply-To: edrury@.UUCP (Ed Drury)
Organization: Garden Lane Software

In article <1992Aug26.232647.23645@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> rda455w@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (H. Nguyen) writes:
>I want to put his comparison into another perspective. I was wondering If
>it was possible for any player to win all three events at the Allstar game
>(Three point shoot out, Dunk comp and Allstar MVP) ? 

 I don't know of a rule against it.

>The only player who I could think, either in the past or present, would be
>Mike. He has already won the Dunk comp and Allstar MVP and come pretty close
>in the 3-point shoot out. I think this is one of the challenges he would
>like to win before he retires.

 Refresh my memory. Which year(s) did Michael win the all-star game MVP and
which year(s) was he entered in the 3 point contest?





   Ed
-- 
   __
 /--   __/
(___, (_/rury@3cpu.rain.com
From: deand@sequent.com (Dean Davison)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Shaq and Magic
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:50:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Aug26.225016.29472
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.


Here is the question for the day:

If Magic went back to the Lakers, but had to renegotiate his contract,
how much would they be willing to pay him, given Shaq's paycheck?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith)
Subject: Re: Australias would heve beaten dream team
Organization: University of Michigan
	<1992Aug25.173042.21717@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:03:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.173042.21717@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> dewey@ccs.northeastern.edu (Dwight S Flewelling) writes:

     I've been reading several messages about how the "DREAM TEAM" would have
   essentially wiped the floor with the Australian team.

   While being a huge Dream Team Fan (and who isn't) I admit I'm a little biased
   but....


   The point is mute, since 


Ah, if only it were.

Bill

p.s. you know, I get a small amount of satisfaction out of beating Gidi to
that one.
--
-------------------------------
	Bill Mangione-Smith
	billms@eecs.umich.edu
From: iacurtop@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Iacurto Paul)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: FIVE ALIVE
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:47:34 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal


Here are today's Top Five Lists from the Home Office in Montreal Canada:  

5 guys who dont pass the ball:
Dominike Wilkins 
Terry Porter
Armon Gilliam
Moses Malone
Tom Chambers

5 white guys who can dunk that aren't 7"0:
Rex Chapman
Name 4 more if you can!!

5 teams on the rise:
Charlotte
Miami
Clippers
New Jersey
Orlando

5 teams on the downfall:
Detroit
Boston
Lakers
Portland
I cant wait till the Bulls hit rock bottom (I hate Pippen)

5 good looking guys:
Horace Grant
Dan Majerle
Michael Jordan
Larry Johnson
Mark Price

5 ugly guys:
Scottie Pippen (in a class by himself)
Patrick Ewing
Dennis Rodman
Xavier McDaniel
Charles Barkley

5 non-athletes:
Manute Bol
Kevin Duckworth
Mark Eaton
Stanley Roberts
Stacey King

5 nicest uniforms:
Hornets
Bulls
Spurs
Magic
Heat

5 "sick" uniforms:
Lakers
Bullets
Nuggets
Pistons
Bucks

5 guys of the present:
PG: John Stockton
SG: I wanna be like Mike
C:  David Robinson
SF: Charles Barkley
PF: Kark Malone

Back to the future:
PG: Tim Hardaway
SG: Kendall Gill
C:  Shaq
SF: Larry Johmson
PF: Shawn Kemp

5 guys I would invite to my house party:
Chris Mullin     - bring the beer
Roy Tarpley      - bring the "stuff"
Magic Johnson    - bring the babes
Charles Barkley  - what's a party without him?
Anybody else know of a good party animal?
From: gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Australias would heve beaten dream team
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:42:40 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <1992Aug28.015725.1365@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> blip@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Bryan Lip) writes:
>Just remember one and all, the performances of the australian team
>considering australia is relatively young on the world scale of being
>a big basketball nation, note this
>australia defeated puerto rico by 40 points, which was 2 points more
>than what the USA could do... 38 points
>which proves if the dream team played australia, i feel australia would
>be the team closest to beat the USA , even maybe, kick their asses.
>i hoped and prayed australia played USA.... (honestly!!! (barkley!!))
>and remember australia also kicked the germans butts, by 30 points.
>so just remember, stop discrimminating the australian team until you see
>their potential....
>
>note this...
>
>andrew gaze: guard, played for the seatle supersonics, italian side,
>Udine, NBL side, Melb. Tigers.
>
>lucian J. Longley : college star for new mexico, drafted 7th in NBA last
>season, and is now playing in the NBA with the minessotta t-wolves.
>
>mark bradtke: oh no!, awesome, nearly got drafted by the trailblazers
>(NBA) but NBA restrictions kept him from joining, also had offers from
>the Detroit Pistons, but turned them down..., now plays in a spanish 1st
>division team..
>
>andrew vlahov: an illustrious carreer, playing for stanford as captain
>in his last year and taking them to the famous, NIT tournament and
>winning. got offers from the LA Lakers, but turned them down, for a $1
>million dollar contract with the Perth Wildcats (aust) in the NBL.
>
>Shane Heal, Larry Sengstock, Phil Smyth, John Dorge, Damien Keogh, Ray
>Borner, Mike Mckay, ...etc, all great players in australia's NBL......
>
>australia, was well and capable of defeating the USA, and giving them
>the biggest nightmare, just australia needs a new direction from now to
>atlanta and for sydney 2000, a new coach, and assistant, some new youth
>(lots of it that aust. aren't using) and inject some more class into
>australia's team, by playing more international games, and showing how
>good australia really is....
>
>comments welcome!
>
>Blip@tartarus.uwa.edu.au

Why is it that so many of these foreigners who can't escape their
countries always smoke something (crack, heroin etc) before they
start posting about the Dream Team :-)

___
A REASON NOT TO VOTE FOR BUSH:
"It's a terrible thing to lose one's mind, but what's worst is
to not have a mind at all"  --  PRESIDENT (1994) QUAYLE Addressing
				United Negro College Banquet
				Dan should know
From: msmiller@Rational.COM (Mark Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Bird, Jordan, Magic...
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:44:07 GMT
Organization: Rational


It's an insult to a great player that people keep this "Bird would have
been a nobody if he wasn't white" crap going on.

I look at it this way: if you had to show a 5 second clip to capture the
essence of Bird, Magic, and Jordan the Jordan clip would be a slam,
the Bird and Magic clips would be amazing no-look passes to teammates.
And I think THAT says it all.

	-MSM

________________________________________________________________________
Mark S. Miller                                     msmiller@Rational.COM
"Life is a 4-letter word."                        msmiller@world.std.com
[ insert tedious disclaimer drivel here ]                           IV-Q
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Compiling List of Jordan Awards
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:05:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Sep1.223055.25877@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
>In article <1992Sep01.184816.36542@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep1.145800.13706@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep01.125914.7775@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:

>The Sporting News College Player of the Year award != NCAA Player of the
>Year. The Sporting News is not prestigeous enough to have its award to
>be recognized as THE award.
>
>FACT TIME (from the NCAA_basketball's_Finest, published by the NCAA):
>
>(pg 84) 
>Michael Jordan: Named player of the year by AP, UPI, the USBWA and the 
>                NABC in 1984 ... Wooden Award Winner in 1984 ... Naismith
>                Award winner in 1984 ...
>
>(pg 131)
>Ralph Sampson: Named player of the year by AP, UPI and the USBWA in
>               1981, 1982 and 1983, and by the NABC in 1982 and 1983 ...
>               Wooden Award winner in 1982 and 1983 .... Naismith Award
>               winner in 1981, 1982 and 1983 ...
>
>So my memory isn't bad. Jordan did win one POTY award in 1983, namely
>the Sporting News, which has the nerve to deceive the public by listing
>only THE SPORTING NEWS COLLEGE PLAYER OF THE YEAR in its NBA Register,
>while ignoring the other more prestigeous awards.
>
>Of course, the NCAA itself doesn't include the TSN awards in its 
>publication.

So, the question is, which of the various "awards" in college basketball are
considered the Heismann equivalent??  I have never heard Sampson mentioned 
as a 3 time POY winner, in any reference, though it seems he won the award 
3 times in 4 different polling organizations.  I hear about the Sporting News
awards (for baseball and basketball mainly) pretty often.


>PLAYER OF THE YEAR in 1987, while ignoring Heisman Trophy winner Tim Brown.
>Of course, TSN didn't have the nerve to do that in the Football Register.
>The Heisman is too big to be whitewashed.

Exactly. In football, the Heisman is THE award everyone wants.  What is 
considered THE award in College Basketball???
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
From: msmiller@Rational.COM (Mark Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Bird, Jordan, Magic...
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:12:09 GMT
Organization: Rational

In article <1992Aug26.071535.29475@cco.caltech.edu>, chiu@sampson.ccsf.caltech.edu (John Chiu) writes:
|> In article <5598@igor.Rational.COM> msmiller@Rational.COM (Mark Miller) writes:
|> >
|> >It's an insult to a great player that people keep this "Bird would have
|> >been a nobody if he wasn't white" crap going on.
|> >
|> >I look at it this way: if you had to show a 5 second clip to capture the
|> >essence of Bird, Magic, and Jordan the Jordan clip would be a slam,
|> >the Bird and Magic clips would be amazing no-look passes to teammates.
|> >And I think THAT says it all.
|> >
|> >	-MSM
|> 
|> Don't forget "the shot" of Micheal Jordan during the last 3.3s of
|> the Bulls-Cleveland game!
|> 
|> 
|> John Chiu

Someone else also mentioned that to me in EMail.

What people will remember Jordan for is his amazing work in the air.
It is his trademark, in more ways than one.

People will remember Bird and Magic for their passing games - even
though they could do other things amazingly well. One of my enduring
memories of Bird was the famous moment during the Piston's series
some years back - where he stole the inbounds pass from Isiah. As great
as that was as a moment, I wouldn't use that clip to "sum up" Bird as
a player.

	-MSM

________________________________________________________________________
Mark S. Miller                                     msmiller@Rational.COM
"Life is a 4-letter word."                        msmiller@world.std.com
[ insert tedious disclaimer drivel here ]                           IV-Q
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro