HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:35:19 EDT
From:         rselfe@MTU.EDU
Subject:      Re: audiences

>Dickie Selfe:  I for one would be very interested to hear about what you call
>your "rather limited list attempts."  I wholeheartedly agree with the idea
>of getting students engaged in projects in which each must respond to the
>work of other students because each must use the work of other students, but
>I find it difficult to think of ways to put that idea in practice.  How do
>you ensure that everyone actually finds something that they're genuinely
>interested in?
>Wes Chapman
>
>
Russ says:
>I don't know how you ENSURE it, exactly,
>but you can make it a lot more likely by
> putting it into an immediate context.

I agree that people generally need the immediacy of context.  He creates
that need within his classroom.  I try to involve students in the immediacy
of outside clients for their publications and technical advisors.  The
students and I act as writing and design specialists, advising each other.

The way I am using e-mail is by setting up my own, manually operated,
listserv of sorts with other students studying the same topic--the
electronic publishing industry--as well as professionals interested in the
same area.  I recruit participants on lists like MBU and at conferences.
We talk about issues of immediate importance to ourselves and a certain, I
hope, percentage of others on the list.  Not everyone finds a niche but as
Russ said, it seems to work for quite a few people.  The particular
software resides on an IBM maniframe but all largish systems, I believe,
have their own versions.  Unix systems have 'aliases' I believe.

but this is all seems very piddly compared to the efforts made by Fred Kemp
and Robert Royer.  If we want some interesting advice on the setting up of
virtual spheres of public (?) discourse, we should ask them.  Perhaps they
can tell us about the techniques they have tried and in what sense those
attempts were effective.

I think that e-mail conferences are excellent opportunities for all of us
to sustain discussions on difficult issues at the same time we are trying
to come to some sort of 'consensus' that will allow for cooperative action.
 I ramble.




Dickie Selfe
Technical Communication Specialist-102 WAHC
Michigan Technological U.
Houghton, Michigan  49931
906-487-2447
<rselfe@mtu.edu>
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 19:50:28 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Definition question for MBU

 *** Reply to note of 09/07/92 15:37
 "real problems," not necessarily "real world" problems. And, as everything is
 interesting, everything has problems connected with it.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:35:59 -0400
From:         ENGMYLES@UBVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Entropy on botany bay (9)

dampness and gloom?
M.
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Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 09:34:01 --500
From:         SLATIN@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject:      Reply to Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Suspi

Nice story, Margaret Daisley, thanks.  Keep those fantasies coming.

John Slatin
UT Austin
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:06:03 --500
From:         SLATIN@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Suspicion, par

BTW, having responded so intemperately to Royar's long message, I want to say
to this group (and anyone else out there) that I am genuinely grateful for the
discussion that's followed my brief announcement of the proposed changes at
UT.  I'm learning a lot, and I hope I'll be able to use what I've learned here
in doing what I can to make things down here work out as well as they can
learn. I just want to be able to love poetry and composition and computers all
at the same time-- anal of me, isn't it, not wanting to let go of anything!?

John Slatin
UT Austin
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 17:39:43 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ice T and Murphy Brown

 *** Reply to note of 09/05/92 11:09
 Gregg, do you really need Ice T to stimulate you to figure out why
 African-Americans in this country are pissed off? Ice T, Murphy Brown etc. are
 just slick entertainment, not significant cultural phenomena. Or maybe they
 are the sanitized version of real cultural phenomena. DES--Weary Family Person

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:31:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: WetWare (3)

Date: Wed,  9 Sep 1992 20:23:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lili Velez <lv08+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-id: <4efdK1600Uh_Q8=Id9@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: RE: WetWare (3)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

I agree completely -- I recall times when students have latched onto
heuristics like "trees" and merrily applied them in every context they
could find.

But in terms of training hypertextual thinking....maybe we "just" use
the methods that we learned ourselves:  chasing ideas through various
references, being exposed to multiple perspectives and levels....oh
_heck_.   How _did_ we learn?

Lili
"Rhet in the Blue Linen Labcoat"

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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:14:08 -0500
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From:         TWBATSON@GALLUA.BITNET
Subject:      Trent's Address

Nancy and others puzzled by the oddity of my email address:  I always
expected that I would be notorious for one thing or another but I never
thought my email address would be.

"GALLUA" stands for Gallaudet University VAX A (what else?).

Why the computer folks here couldn't see the kind of confusion everyone
here is commenting on (between the AU in Gallaudet and the UA in Gallua)
is beyond me; or maybe they did see the confusion but, well, you know
how those computer types are.  I believe many of them love to have
their machine beep-beep at you and flash "input error detected in
lib-parse."  Gotcha!

Hope this is the last message on my address.  And sorry for all the trouble.

Trent
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 09:26:42 --500
From:         SLATIN@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject:      audiences

Dave Schwalm's assignments about kitchen appliances, etc., put me in mind of
Pirsig/Phaedrus in the classroom at Bozeman, Montana.  Cf. _Zen and the Art of
Motorcycle Maintenance,
                     _, somewhere toward the middle.

John Slatin
UT Austin
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 08:56:00 EST
From:         BURT@BRANDEIS.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Reply to Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Suspicion, par

Would that more lit types were like Margaret Daisley's convert.
John B
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:52:45 --500
From:         SLATIN@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject: Re: Texas

The Director of the Rhetoric & Composition Division will report directly to
the Dean of Liberal Arts, Jim.  And you're right, there was a committee
recommendation, from a faculty committee on The Undergraduate Experience, that
writing should be split out from the English Dept.  I was on leave last
semester so didn't actually see the report, and I don't know what kind of
response it drew. But this move is generally being well received on campus,
though not in the Department (though things there are relatively quiet so
far).
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 08:41:00 EST
From:         00D0HENRIKSE@BSUVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: On-line collaborative lit?

Did the suggested IRC take place last night?  If so, is there a way to
get copies?  It sounded really interesting, but some of us at Ball State
were unable to access the VAX from modems last night, so our virtual
reality was greatly curtailed.

So far my four writing classes have used the Interchange twice this
semester.  Now I have to get more creative in what I ask them to do so
their interest holds.  Wish the ENFI log was here.  Are there back
copies?  Or a good book for someone new to the concept? Fascinating
environment.

Donna Henriksen

00d0henrikse@bsuvc.bsu.edu
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:47:15 -0700
From:         allen@SONOMA.EDU
Subject:      PREPeditor

     Wes Chapman--

     I'm responding to an ancient message in which you said that you could
 supply the address of the developers of PREPeditor so that those of us who
 wished
could get it via FTP.  I don't have your own address, or I would have contacted
 you privately; however, maybe others are interested.  Could you either send me
the address or post it to the list?

     Thanks.

Julie
allen@sonoma.edu
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 10:59:00 EST
From:         MARY JANE SCHRAMM <01MJSCHRAMM@BSUVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: measuring change

Ron,
I'm very interested in what you have to say about measuring student
change.  (Forgive me for bringing up what is now probably a past
conversation; I'm weeding through over 200 messages from the summer.)
I've proposed doing a research project here at Ball State which
essentially is designed to measure changes in students' awareness
of themselves as writers, using Elbow and Belanoff's Writing Skilles
Questionnaire.  Our goal is to see how much their awareness has
changed over the course of our two-semester basic writing program.

So I would like to hear more about Perry's speech this summer.  What
else did he have to say?  Does he think we can't really measure
student change?

Mary Jane Schramm
Ball State University
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 06:45:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Computers and Composition Digest 6.258 (1)

$undigest -s="Computers and Composition Digest 6.258 (1)" [.new_news]cmpd6260.ms
s

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92  17:48:31 EDT
From: "Dennis R. Hall" <DRHALL01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Message-id: <01GOIFKE6Z7K9D4B3B@ulkyvx.bitnet>
Subject: Computers and Composition Digest 6.258 (1)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

Director of Composition, Department of English
Phone: (502) 588-6896
Regarding Ice T, Murphy Brown, Grioux, Popular Culture and the like,
may I suggest people take a look at John Fiske's book on Television.
He makes a strong if not entirely convincing case for the independent,
transactional consumer of of popular culture.


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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:48:59 -0400
From:         R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject:      Re: Texas

Power questions, power questions:

1.  Is a Division coequal to or subordinate to any Department?
2.  Does a Division include tenured and tenure-line faculty?
3.  Can a Division grant graduate degrees?
4.  Does a Division control its courses and curricula internally?
5.  Does a Division have equal standing with and representation to
         university senates, councils, and caucuses?

The answers to these questions will tell us whether this is good or bad
news.

Bob C.
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:48:53 EDT
Comments:     <Parser> E: Mail origin cannot be determined.
Comments:     <Parser> E: Original tag was -> FROM: Steven Ford,
              Host of *The Secret Service*
From:         Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster <POSTMASTER@TTUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Order in the Disciplines
              14 Sep 1992 19:40:33 -0400 from <sm51@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>

Stuart Moulthrop, and others of his ilk:

I am writing as host of that new real-life drama series
*The Secret Service* to ask whether you, as former member
of the radical University of Texas at Austin English Dept., and any
of the other members of this department participating on
this monitored discussion list, Megabyte University, would be
willing to be interviewed concerning the past and present troubles
over left-wing radical brainwashing of the sons and daughters of
taxpayers at this public institution of higher learning.

Understandably, many potential informants would prefer anonymity,
and you have my word as the son of a president twice under fire from
deranged left-wing zealots, that we could arrange on-camera interviews
with faces in shadows and voices disguised.

Of course, anyone participating would receive the Actors Guild minimum wage,
and residuals, and in the case of particularly useful tidbits, a generous
bonus for helping to keep the American People informed on this troubling
series of events dragging the reputation of our higher education system
into the mud.
                                       Thank you...

                                       Steve (who almost lost his father to
                                              two deranged gunmen)
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 10:21:40 EDT
From:         Marcia Halio <AFK11654@UDELVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Definition question for MBU

Rhoda,
How's this for an attempt at a definition of ct--
ct is the ability to separate the bull from the bs...or the treasure from
the trash.  I think we need to teach our students how to engage actively
with the info, sensations, experiences that bombard them daily.  They
need to learn how to construct meaning in a way that makes the surreal
real and the chaos concrete in an increasingly compex culture.  And...
so do we.  In the end, all we can teach is awareness...seeing.  I think
Pirsig was exactly on track, don't you? But I also agree with Dave Schwalm
when he talks about the difficult of using pop texts.  I think it's
easier for students to practice "seeing" when they analyze, criticize
how the "great" seers have found a way to see--for, of course, life
has always been complex.
(What did the appearance of the 'gator mean in Biloxi anyway, Rhoda...remem
ber the puddles?)
Marcia H.
From: R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET (Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Transfering real life to Lit
              classes (7) (*COMP.COMP*) (3)
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:12:00 GMT
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Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1.bitnet"

Date: 6 Sep 92 23:36:36 GMT
Apparently-from: dargan@ucbvax.Berkeley.edu
Message-id: <1992Sep6.183636.6530@iscsvax.uni.edu>
Subject: RE: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Transfering real life to Lit classes (7) (*COMP.COMP*
) (3)
Reply-to: comp.edu.composition <compos01%ulkyvx.bitnet@ucbvax.Berkeley.edu>

[Quoted text edited by moderator -rdr]

In article <1992Aug31.063204.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>,
 r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST) writes:

> I have had marginal success with a technique in a sohomore/junior-level
[...]
> story helped them reinterpret a past event or that allow them to develop their
> own fiction based on their experience and the reading of the story.
>
> I haven't found that any one level of student (i.e. the well prepared or the
> under prepared)
[...]
>
>  -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology


I have a social worker friend who is using so-called "romance" novels in some
of her marital counseling situations.  She is looking for works in which
substantial conflict is due to male and female characters' inability to discern,
acknowledge and coordinate with the fantasies or perceptions of their partners.
She has them read the works, abstract the fantasies of their counterparts, and
summarize.  With luck their consciousness will be raised and they will be more
able to empathize with their spouse.

We are going to use Elizabeth Tallent's short story "No One's into Me" as a
demonstrator.  I'm hoping that this will help my students to realize that
fiction does indeed have an impact on their lives and can be usseful.

Cheers--
Mike Dargan

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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:11:37 EDT
From:         mer <MROSE01@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Splitting comp
              14 Sep 1992 12:01:18 -0400 from <R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU>

Bob:
        I think that your final comment on identity within the social matrix
        of the academy is telling, and perhaps not quite extreme enough.
        For 3/3 teaching load is better than most have it.
        I think that we must somehow retain the notion and feeling of
                                   solidarity
        given the zero-sum conditions of the academy and the forces seeking
        to control pedagogical agendas in the face of a weakening tenure system
        in which it becomes possible to rid a U of tenured profs by reclassify-
        ing their positions as part of a program, division or some minor,
        administrative unit, and then get rid of the unit--to cite one approach

        Meanwhile, the conditions for contract faculty have become worse,
        and I don't know how we can even conceive of helping to improve
        conditions for professors unless we also consider the conditions for
        those *used* to take up the slack caused by declining teaching loads
        and constricting budgets.

        Tenure-line faculty ignore the plight of contract faculty at their
        own peril, for, as in all colonial regimes, the best way to govern
        is to divide the controlled population against itself and then, to
        subjugate.
                                                           mer
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 10:01:59 -0500
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From:         TWBATSON@GALLUA.BITNET
Subject:      EnfiLOG List; 2nd Posting

Donna:  got your address, will send EnfiLOG.  We have a new manager of
our internet connections so he's done some odd things but I think it's
working now for anyone else who wants to send me their addresses to get
the EnfiLOG.

I might add that jumping into ENFI with four classes given that "it's
a new environment" for you is an act of true bravery.  When we do our
ENFI training each year we caution people it may take a year to re-
orient your approach to teaching in order to use ENFI successfully and
to feel comfortable with it.

Trent Batson
Gallaudet University
Wash. DC
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 06:35:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Slime Molds and Hypertext (Was: small library...)
              (9)

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Date: 05 Sep 1992 19:44:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lili Velez <lv08+%ANDREW.CMU.EDU@CARNEGIE.BITNET>
Message-id: <AeeINKW00Uh7M3Vf1z@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Slime Molds and Hypertext (Was: small library...) (9)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

Wes compares hypertext to slime molds, saying:

  >     I can do all the research I want to on them,
  >     and I can even teach about them in appropriate
  >     classes, but I shouldn't expect too
  >     many people to handle them on a regular basis.

There _is_, however, a major difference between these two research
objects, and that difference may actually explain why Wes's colleagues
(and, I suspect, many of our own) may view hypertext as an interesting
research area, but not something we expect our students to _use_:
accessiblility.

If left unattended, the average bathroom tile surface can provide
numerous slime molds.  Unfortunately, _nothing_ "spontaneously" provides
hardware capable of running hypertext programs. I have to work with
materials that my students are able to get their hands on....

Lili

*********************************
Lili Fox Velez
Rhetorician in Residence            "Rhet in the Blue Linen Labcoat"
Department of Biological Sciences
Carnegie Mellon University            lv08@andrew.cmu.edu.BITNET
*********************************

 This rhet could be _yours_.....if the Price is Right!


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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 09:13:57 -0500
From:         "Gail E. Hawisher" <hawisher@UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Splitting comp

John--

A quick reading of your really interesting response tells me that you have
no advocate for keeping the program in English. Rather amazing actually! I
certainly hope that any new faculty are given *tenure* lines.  In some ways
it sounds as though UT is setting up a program that is not terribly unlike
the one that resulted in so many lay-offs back in 1985 or so, although I
guess that was all within English.

Gail
________________
Gail E. Hawisher
Department of English
University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
hawisher@uiuc.edu and 217-333-2989
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:21:18 CDT
From:         Wes Chapman <WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: PREPeditor

Julie--sure.  I'll try sending the document explaining how to get PREP via
FTP directly to the list by a sendmail command; if that doesn't work, I'll
send it directy to you (everybody else--if it doesn't show up, sendmail
didn't work, but I'll be happy to send it directly to you on request).
Wes Chapman
Illinois Wesleyan University
weschap@uiucvmd.bitnet
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