From: turnerbl@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Culture
Date: 11 Jan 93 09:22:13 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

In article <2B4FE880.27433@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan4.081435.2354@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> turnerbl@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
>>
>># A perception is going around that poor balck students can't learn
>># because of the schools that they are in.  This has been disproved
>># again and again by the waves of immigrant asian students from poor
>># schools who still score in the top of their schools as well as top
>># in the SAT/ACT tests.  Students, not schools, make these choices.
>># It always comes back to the kid.
> 
> This comparison is altogether too simplistic.  The differences between
> Asians and African-Americans are a large as the differences between any
> other two groups on Earth.  This is like saying that any two
> disadvantaged groups are fundamentally the same, subsuming all of their
> rich cultural histories and vibrant differences by just lumping them
> together under the rubric "Not White."  No, I'm not saying that AfAm
> students and Asian students are not both at a disadvantage, but I'm also
> not saying that the problems they face are the same.  AfAm students do
> not face a language barrier, whiile Asians were not brought to this
> country in chains.

Um Janis,... Asians indeed were here as indentured servants, and were prohibited
from bringing their families over, so chains are what you make of them.  And
the one asian most pointed to as an example of making it past barriers is the
Cambodian immigrant who made it into West Point.  By the way, she is a woman
and graduated, as I remember, as number one in her class.  
Not to forget, almost every asian on the west coast was put in a camp for 4 
years during WWII.  And these people lost EVERYTHING! Homes, businesses, 
families, education opportunities...  Not that we are keeping score here, but 
this was an important point.  The "asian students" I was talking about are the 
immigrants from Laos, Cambodia, Viet Nam...
> 
> Would you say that because Asian students do well in graduate physics
> that women should also?  

Women are no longer defined as an ethnic minority, and that's what we are
talking about here, so let's keep to the point ok?

> Not all disadvantaged groups are the same.  We
> are as diverse as any peoples on this planet.   
> 
> Regards,
> Janis C.
> 
> 
Dear Janis,

As of today, in 1993, there are no childreen that I know of, of parents who were
brought to this country in chains in any of our public schools.  I could be
wrong, and if so, I will stand corrected.

This whole arguement is a circle.  Gee we all have brains?  We are all human? 
I mean, what else is there.  Once you learn to read, the world is open to you. 
Period, this is not an essay question, this will be on the final!

"Rich cultural histories" and "vibrant differences" aside ( and how PC of you I
must say) hey! wake up it is the 90's!  We can continue to whine about this 
and that, but my point was just one.  

It is not the fault of any school, that a "student can't learn."  Barring any 
obvious learning disability, most students can handle the classes being offered
at most of our inner city schools.  Not like we are asking them to master 
advanced calc here, just the basics and even those are not being achieved!

Students make choices!  I will go to class, I will not go to class.  I will
have unprotected sex, I will not have unprotected sex.  I will bring guns to
schools, I will not bring guns to school.  Gee, while these indeed are hard
choices, 15-18 year olds are making them, why can't we as adults make them?  I
will put up with this crap and make excuses and watch students drop out of
school  and end up either  1) dead 2) on public support or 3) in jail.

This is a no-brainer.  Our obligation is to provide all students who wish to
learn the opportunity to do so.  Once they make the choice not to, off to
vocational school, trade school or what ever.  But they will be in school until
they are 17, and after that our obligation ends.  But we should never be in a
position of being accused of not trying.  If they try, so should we.

But folks, it seems that "they are not trying."   Does this come as a news
flash to any of us?  I don't know about you, but as a college recruiter, I have
been to a lot of these schools, and am going to one tonight.  When were you last
in an inner city school Janis?  When, perhaps, you were the only white person
for miles?  I have been there and it is not pretty.  But If I stop going, will
you go?  I don't think so.

So this leaves thos of us out in the trenches as the point guard for the next
generation of adults, those folks who are going to support us through their
social security taxes when we are old, remember them?  We are not doing our
jobs, by not making, yes I said MAKING them do theirs.  We have an obligation
as citizens to reform this system, or it will be the end of us.

Look down the road folks, and peek at the future.  An uninformed voter
population, one that could perhaps be swayed by a demigogue like ( fill in your
favorite dictator here) who says "the whole (alleged oppressor group) is
against us, their is an easier way, just vote for me and I will tell those so
and sos where to go...  More tribulation, more unrest, more unhappiness.  And
we are doing it to ourselves, can you believe it!

It all starts with education, no doubt about it.  Once achieved, it can never
be taken away.  As our schools go, so do we.  Think about it.  Fear it.
Newsgroups: misc.education