From: russ@math.okstate.edu (Horatio "Random" Hellpop)
Subject: Re: Anti-religious fanatics (Was Re: School Choice )
Organization: Aggie? What precisely is an Aggie?
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:02:46 GMT

In <1992Sep3.135001.4987@ornl.gov> de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill) writes:

>In article <1992Sep2.195731.4732@math.okstate.edu>, russ@math.okstate.edu (Horatio "Random" Hellpop) writes:
>>
>>*I* understood what he meant.  There is no teaching of Christ which reads
>>"go kill those weird easterners who bathe".  Quite the opposite.

>So what?  In theory, Christianity is safe, but in *practice* much blood has
>been and will continue to be shed in the name of Christ.


>>That they did these things falsely in the name of Christianity does not
>>require me to accept that they did it as Christians.

>Deny it all you want, but that won't stop the next holy war from happening.

Oh, I see.

So, the reality of situations don't matter.  What matters is what someone
claims.

I apologize on behalf of God for the lack of handy ID cards.

>>>>Most (but not all) Christians don't dump on those that don't share their
>>>>beliefs.
>>
>>>I don't know about that.
>>
>>I do.  'Hate the sin, but not the sinner.'

>`A witty saying proves nothing.' (Voltaire)  Again, there's a *big* difference
>between what Christianity teaches and how it's applied by its practitioners. 

Uh.

By definition, the blood-thirsty individuals in question are not
practictioners.

See?

>And I don't know of any big movement in the organized Christian religions to
>identify non-Christian practices common among their members.  "Love thy
>neighbor."  Unless he's gay, or beats his wife, or takes drugs, or isn't
>Christian, or doesn't love you back, or...  "Do unto others..."  unless you
>can get away with it.

It's pretty simple.  Those that follow to the best of their abilities the
words of the Gospel do not, to use your example, hate people for not being
Christians.  Those that DO use the name of Christianity to deliver a lesson on
how to despise people _are_not_followers_of_Christianities_tenets_.

If your point is that this is common within the churches, well, what happened
to the Pharisees, can happen to modern people.  One has to look out for
it.  But this is a failing of individuals, and not of the religion itself.

What would you suggest?

>>Horse puckey.  False adherents have a way of trying to find justifications
>>for their deeds which simply do not exist.

>Huh?  What's that got to do with the leap of faith, suspension of disbelief,
>and subjugation of will required to be a Christian?

I think faith is not something one has to defend; anyone who says that he
takes nothing on faith is lying.  Suspension of disbelief is inaccurate;
the fact that I suspend disbelief while reading a SF novel does not mean
I believe in it.

And I don't FEEL subjugated.

>>If we were all judged by the worst of our number, where would any of us be?

>We should be judged individually only when we act as individuals.  When we act
>as members of a group, it's reasonable that we be judged as a group.  If a
>group has "a few bad apples", it's the group's responsibility to throw them
>out.  When a group consistently produces bad apples, it seems likely that the
>practices/beliefs of the group are responsible.

I fully disagree.  It's so simple to do, and it's so wrong.

>It follows, then, that atheists are not accountable as a group since they
>don't act as a group--they're merely a set of individuals with a common trait.
>You can't blame them for the ills of any particular atheist any more than you
>can blame redheads for any deed performed by a redhead.

Let me make this clear.

You are going down this path:

Some people declare Christianity as their reason for hating some other people.
Regardless of the fact that the tenets of Christianity actively teach against
such behavior, the fact that the above happens is the fault of Christianity.
Therefore, all Christians should be watched carefully.

Quite frankly, I think I can live with your disdain, if that's its basis.

-- 
---------------------===Comedy!  Sudden, violent comedy!===--------------------
Russ Smith -- russ@math.okstate.edu  |  "This is the Nineties, Bubba, and
  Don Random of the "Random Gang"    |   there is no such thing as Paranoia.
What a pinhead! Does he not fear us? |   It's all true." -- Hunter S Thompson
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