HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jlysagh@hubcap.clemson.edu (james joseph lysaght)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Are Saturns really "rattletraps"?
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:43:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Clemson University

>pnelson@cobra.Tymnet.COM (Phil Nelson) writes:

>In my experience there is a direct correlation between time and quality.
>Sometimes it's not very good, but it is definitely a direct correlation.

There are too many other variables that have a far greater effect on
quality such as the skill of the designers, the equipment available to
them, their personal interest in the project, the limitations placed on
them by economics, the availabilioty of materials, etc.

>I can't remember a rush project that didn't miss something important.

I did not say do a rush project, I said it is possible for the most
skilled design team to accmplish a goal in less than average time.

>statistics is what I picked up here and there. Maybe I didn't understand
>what you meant by "direct correlation".

By "direct correlation" I meant, could it be shown that simply spending
more time on the project would in fact lead to a better end product or
would other resources be necessary such as more money, better equipment,
or even better skilled designers and would these other factors be
justifiable in the end goal.  If all these added factors needed caused
the saturn to cost $30,000 dollars than it would not be justifiable as
the goal was to produce a good car at a reasonable price.


Jim
From: bdm@druwa.ATT.COM (Brian Millham)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Cruise control repair question
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:05:54 GMT
Distribution: rec

The cruise control in my '76 Eldorado has been getting worse and
worse.  At first, occasionally after setting it, it would hunt and
not hold a steady speed.  If I set it for 65, it would speed up to
70, slow to 60, back to 70, etc.  Turning it off and back on would
usually clear the problem.  Well, now it does this all the time.

I've cleaned the speedo cable from the tranny to the CC unit.  I
didn't do from the CC to the speedo, since I didn't figure that
it would affect the CC.

Any ideas?  I'm planning on taking the CC unit apart and cleaning it.
I'm also going to check the servo to make sure that it isn't leaking.
Could the CC to speedo cable be causing it?

This is the simple unit that doesn't have a resume/accelerate button.

Thanx,
--
Brian Millham     |Kitty      |Fletch |Dragon's Lair |Kick Man |New World
AT&T Bell Labs    |Ferrah     |Buddy  |Space Ace     |Sinistar |High Speed
Denver, Co.       |Dr. Pepper |       |              |         |
bdm@druwa.att.com |(ferrets)  |(cats) |(laser disc)  |(video)  |(pinball)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: TKPOWELL@bluemoon.profs.tek.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:07:23 GMT

In article <13374@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM
writes:
--I couldn't agree more.  I throw 200 lbs of wt in my Toyota PU in the
--winter.  I take the 50 series tires off my Acura and mt M/S tires or
--when its really bad, I take the bus (argggg).

--       How is it that an old bus is better in really bad weather
--       than a car?

c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)writes:
-It's a combination of laws of physics, economics, and interpersonal
-relations. It can best be summarized as:

-o       let someone else drive in this < >
-o       a bus ticket is cheaper than my acura
-o       might is right (referring to bus size)

Yup...exactly.  You see we have this situation in the Portland,Or
area where it snows about once every 3 years.  For some reason
the driving public forgets their snow driving experience after
2 years and they proceed to crash into each other for several days
until it becomes clear that whether you have FWD,RWD,OWD,4WD or AWD
you can't drive like it was dry (which is pretty bad also).  So, for
the first snow, I trudge down to the bus stop and while I'm waiting
I watch all of the 4WD guys show off and crash into the FWD,RWD and
AWD guys.

--Terry
Xref: sparky rec.autos:23081 rec.autos.driving:5777
From: rhorwell@crab.etwork-a (Roland Faragher-Horwell,crab)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:06:15 GMT
Reply-To: rhorwell@crab.etwork-a
Organization: Sun Microsystems


In article 7071@pcx.ncd.com, johnl@pcx.ncd.com (John Light) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.225853.6463@qiclab.scn.rain.com> al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman) writes:
>>>Rear Wheel Drive _cars_ for sale in the USA, 1992:
>>>
>>>Did I miss any this time?
>>
>>Yup!  LOTS!
>>
>>Volvo..
>
>Except for the new Volvo that replaces the 240.  Imagine: a FWD volvo!
>
>John Light
>johnl@gss.com

Actually, the FWD 8-series will replace the 7-series not the 2-series.  Also,
Volvo has offered FWD for a number of years now in the 3 and 4 series (not 
avialable in N. America).  Slowly, but surely, Volvo is recognizing the
error in their ways and mimicking SAAB!   :^)

Roland
From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:23:13 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <13355@texsun.Central.Sun.COM>, dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
>How many new RWD automobiles are still offered? There's the huge
>GM line (Buick Roadmonster/Caprice/new Fleetwood).  Is the Crown Vic?
>The trend seems clearly toward FWD, but don't know if that's mostly
>fashion or not.

I tried this once before, let's see how I do this time:

Rear Wheel Drive _cars_ for sale in the USA, 1992:

Ford Crown Victoria/Mercury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car
Ford Thunderbird/Mercury Cougar
Ford Mustang
Buick Roadmaster/Chevy Caprice/Cadillac Brougham
Chevy Camaro/Pontiac Firebird
Chevy Corvette
Dodge Viper
Infiniti Q45
Lexus SC300/SC400/ES400
Acura NSX
Toyota MR2
Toyota Supra
Toyota Cressida
Mazda 929
Mazda RX-7
Mazda Miata

Did I miss any this time?

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
How about we all do something reasonable?  I bet that'll confuse 'em!
From: stxtnt@rs733.GSFC.NASA.Gov (Nigel Tzeng)
Subject: Re: stainproofing seats & carpeting ?
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md, USA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:50:33 GMT

In article <92279.53297.6310550@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> 6310550@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:

>   I just bought a 1993 Caravan & would like to stainproof the seats
>   and carpeting to protect them from my two kids.  Does anybody have
>   any recommendations ?  The dealer was pushing stuff they put on
>   but was charging $500 !!!!  Has anybody tried the spray on scotch-
>   guard ?  How well does it hold up ?

I just bought a new car as well and the dealer told us to simply run
out and buy some cans of Scotchguard.  The floormats were easy but I
haven't tried the seats yet.  The problem is evidently that spraying
Scotchguard on vinyl is a bad idea (it bubbles).  There is some sort
of protective foam yo can spray on vinyl first but I don't know the
name of the product.  

This info was gleaned from an auto detailer and someone who had done
is own scotchgurading on a VW Jetta.  The do-it-yourselfer mentioned it
took him 8 cans of Scotch gurad several years ago to do his whole car.

The detailer offered to do it for $80...about the cost of 8 cans.  It
sounds a tad odd since it only took one can to do 4 floor mats for me.
Granted seats are a lot bigger...maybe he did two applications...

>   Thanks,

>   Deb

BTW:  Scotchguard can be found at hechingers...there are two varities.  One
for rugs and one for fabrics.  I used the rug one on the floor mats and
haven't tried the fabric one on the seats yet.

Nigel
--
Nigel Tzeng
.sig under construction
From: wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Tire width vs wheel width question
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:10:56 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID

Actually, it depends on the tire manufacturer as to what wheel width
is approved for the tire.  Most radial tires can utilize a wide variety
of wheel widths since the sidewall doesn't carry the load and is meant
to be flexible.  Check with the individual spec sheets if you are 
concerned.

Wes Fujii

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Wes Fujii               *           JAPANESE BUSINESS MOTTO           *
* Boise, Idaho            *        You can buy anything you want        *
* wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com *             with a lot of money             *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Xref: sparky rec.autos:23188 rec.autos.tech:13443
From: sly9y@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: simple starting problemdir
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:06:07 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Sep27.185054.21174@cmcl2.nyu.edu>, rosenblg@acf3.nyu.edu (Gary J. Rosenblum) writes:
> 
> 	simple question - from time to time when i try to start my car 
> (whether it is cold or warm), all i get is a 'click' when i turn the 
> ignition key.  when this happens, it can take one click, or twenty, 
> then it starts up with no problem.  the problem goes away when i 
> install a new battery, but starts again after about 2-3 months.  the 
> battery voltage checks out, and of course whenever i take it to a 
> mechanic he finds nothing wrong with it.  any ideas?  this happens in 
> my 1987 toyota celica gt with fuel injection.

Through a couple years experience in the driveway with my families collection
of old cars, this problem has occurred many times.  It has also happened
quite often to newer cars as well.  Go smack your mechanic for not checking 
the simple things first before charging you for a new battery.  Go down to 
the Auto parts store, and purchase a Battery cleaning tool with the wire 
brushes.  One end cleans the post, and the other cleans the cable.  While you
are there, get a package of battery washers (green and red felt things that 
have some chemical in them).  Also, if you don't have one in the garage, pick
up a 10mm end wrench.  Without the wrench, this will cost you all of $5, and
take about 15 mins. at most.  In  case you really don't want to do this a few
years down the road, buy a can of permatex or whatever battery protectant
spray.

Good luck.

Pete
> 
> 					gary
> --
From: jca@bliss.fibercom.com (James Akers)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Seeking recommendations: Sporty car for tall people?
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:19:57 GMT
Organization: FiberCom, Inc., Roanoke, Virginia

In article <shaver.717711925@convex.convex.com> shaver@convex.com (Dave Shaver) writes:
>I'm interested in buying a "sporty" car for less than $30K.  Although
>there are many such cars, my problem is that I've yet to find one that
>has enough head room.  I'm 6'3" tall and much of my height is from my
>waist to my shoulders.  (My inseam is only 32".)
>[stuff deleted]
>/\  Dave Shaver
>\\  CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX
>\/  Internet: shaver@convex.com    UUCP:  uunet!convex!shaver

I bought my '92 Z28 complete with 245HP and 340lb/ft torque (and every other
possible option- except 1LE :-) for under 18K.  I would be amazed if anyone
could find a better performing car for equivalent or less price.  (Any 
challenges out there ?  :-)  Anyway, I am 6'5.5" tall and have no problem
fitting in it.  (Forget about putting anyone comfortably in the back seat-
this definitely is not my '69 Impala!)  Another suggestion for you Dave...
for most cars that I drive, I have to recline the seat to a "sporty rake"
(hahaha) to fit.  What was the most uncomfortable car for me to drive?
My step-mother's '89 (?) Saab 900.  Ugg!  It was easier for me to open
the sunroof and look out the top!  The roomiest non-luxury modern car I have
driven is probably the Chevy Corsica.  You might try that, or possibly a
Lumina.  The Lumina with the 3.4 runs in the 15's (1/4 mile) and it has a 
trunk too!!!!

I don't know Dave, I think you and I are getting the shaft with today's 
cars in general...   what do you say you and I get together and kick the
crap out of the squirrely engineer who defined "ergonomics"  :-)  :-)
Give me a '59 Caddy and I'll be happy...

-- 
 ____________________________________________________________________________
|  jca@fibercom.com  | James C. Akers...  Renaissance Man, Social Chameleon, |
| uunet!fibercom!jca |    Wearer of Really Groovy Ties...                    |
|___FiberCom,_Inc____|_Roanoke,_Virginia___(703)342-6700_x280________________|
From: andyc@hplsla.hp.com (Andy Cassino)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 23:28:49 GMT
Subject: Re: sho limits
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.autos

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes about his SHO:

> And then,
> of course, when you get off the pedal it switches to severe oversteer.
> I almost bought it this way on a tight S curve when I first had the car:
> took the second turn way too fast, started to plow, lifted to get traction
> to the front, and broke the rear loose.  Fishtail city.  
> ----------

Well, this isn't the car's fault per se, any FWD car will do this.

I guess I'm lucky I learned about this FWD behavior on a track.


    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Andy Cassino                                       %
    % Hewlett-Packard - Lake Stevens Instrument Division %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
From: andy@b30.ingr.com (Andrew Brezinski)
Subject: Re: chevy pickups going kaboom like a pinto
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:01:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.161129.10577@hubcap.clemson.edu> jlysagh@hubcap.clemson.edu (james joseph lysaght) writes:
>I saw an article on Inside Edition (I know, TABLOID !!!!) last night about
>Chevy pickups (1973-1987) models haveing a little problem with exploding.
>According to the article their safety record is far FAR worse than that
>of the '79 Ford Pinto's that have such a bad reputation for rear end
>collisions.  The gas tank on the Chevy Pickups is mounted between the
>main spar of the frame and the body outboard of the frame spar.
>Therefore, in an accident, the gas tank gets squished between the body
>and frame and can burst and explode.  I noticed this once when I was
>underneath my brother-in-laws pickup and questioned the wisdom of the
>gas tank placement but figured "hey, I'm sure ol' GM knows more about it
>than I do"  Aparently the government has ordered an investigation into
>the safety of these vehicles and why they were not recalled. GM has
>apparently been paying MAJOR settlements with a stipulation that the
>people they settle with have to keep their mouths shut about it or pay back
>the money and so we have not heard a lot about it before.  Anybody know
>more about this?  Anybody know anybody who's truck was torched from
>this?
>
>Jim

I saw a similar article on the CBS Evening News.  Just curious, I picked
up my 1/25 scale '91 454SS Pick Up.  It has the fuel tank within the
confines of the frame.  So then I picked up my roughly '76 vintage Chevy
Step-side, and sure enough, it had twin tanks mounted outside of the
frame half under the cab and half under the bed.  Obviously, they are
not protected from a side impact crash.  I'll bet GM is trying to hush
this up.  There must be a coupla million of these trucks still on the road
after 15 years of production.

Andy Brezinski
Intergraph Corporation
Huntsville, AL 35894-0001
From: sgupta@lucky.ecn.purdue.edu (Sameer Gupta)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Current 92 Honda Prices ?
Keywords: Accord, Honda, Question, Prices
Date: 26 Sep 92 23:49:40 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

I am currently considering purchasing a 1992 Honda Accord (either LX or EX).
Could somebody tell me what is a fair price for this car ?  Also, what
changes if any have been made in 93 model.  One more thing, I am going for
a 5 spd.

Any other info. like (problems or design faults or anything else) is also
welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Sameer Gupta
sgupta@ecn.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wales@valeria.cs.ucla.edu (Rich Wales)
Subject: Auto warranty problems and car alarms?
Reply-To: wales@CS.UCLA.EDU (Rich Wales)
Organization: UCLA CS Department, Los Angeles
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 23:51:22 GMT

In light of the recent discussion of car alarms, I've heard that many
car companies will void portions of their new car warranty if any
"modifications" are made to the electrical wiring.  Naturally, this
is a problem if one wants to install an alarm in a new car.

Back in 1984, the alarm I had installed in my new Honda Accord devel-
oped problems.  At first, it appeared that the ignition switch might
have gone faulty -- but Honda insisted that they would not cover this
switch under warranty, because the alarm installer had cut one of
its wires in order to implement the alarm's "ignition kill" feature.
Fortunately (and before I went and spent $100 or so on a new ignition
switch), it turned out that the problem was in the alarm and not in
the switch after all.

This may be something to consider when buying a new car -- though I
have a feeling that most or all makers probably follow basically the
same policy, so no use shopping around.

--
Rich Wales <wales@CS.UCLA.EDU> // UCLA Computer Science Department
3531 Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, CA 90024-1596 // +1 (310) 825-5683
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: enns@waterloo.hp.com (Roger Enns)
Subject: Re: Pontiac Fiero problems?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:13:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: HP Panacom Div Waterloo ON Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]


>
>    That's why Ford is #1 in the domestic car market !!!
>     
> 			-Trevor
>                 ( previous owner & faithful follower of the Mustang )
>                           ( '69 Grande 302 - '79 5.0L Cobra )
>  =======================================================================
>  |   C. Trevor Perkins                       891078p@ace.acadiau.ca.   |

Ford is #1 in the domestic car market because they are pedalling
rebadged Mazdas... :-)

--
Roger Enns (enns@waterloo.hp.com) Panacom Automation Division, HP
C-GIIV Dragonfly, 1979 RX7 13B, 1985 Colt
From: synth@deepthought.unm.edu (Synth F. Oberheim)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: CAR ALARMS: My Story/FAQ
Date: 4 Oct 92 06:36:41 GMT
Organization: SynthMedia Productions Ltd -- Now Appearing Nightly With DON HO


johns@hp-ptp.ptp.hp.com (John Schubert) writes:

John> # Most alarms give you an audible alert when the alarm is armed or
John> # disarmed.  This serves two purposes. One is to let you know the
John> # alarm is working and on the job.  The other is to let others
John> # (thieves) know you car has an alarm.

John> again... gives the theif an edge....

The argument for letting the thief know your car has an alarm is one of
deterrent:  if the thief knows this he may abandon your car in favor of
one without an alarm.  The bottom line is convenience for the thief: it's
more profitable (and safer) to spend 60 seconds on an unprotected car 
than to work 3 minutes getting in and out of an alarmed car.  In those
3 minutes he could hit 3 different unprotected cars!  He'd rather not
waste time on yours, it's not worth it.

John> IMHO any chirp is annoying in a queit neighborhood. Last week I as
John> out of town on business and somebody parked right outside my hotel
John> window late at night. CHIRP-CHIRP!!  Do those around you a favor
John> and use some silent method of indicating arm/disarm.

Again, the argument here is that you *want* strangers to know your car
has an alarm.  If the thief does not know your car is armed, he may
smash a window or jimmy a lock, whereupon the alarm catches him by
surprise, and he runs off.  Had he hypothetically heard the chirp (or
seen the blinking LED), he would've never approached it, and your car
would not have suffered any damage.  Conversely, it can be argued that
the surprise element is more effective psychologically -- if he's caught
off-guard he's more likely to bolt without thinking, whereas if he knows
beforehand he may take more time to prepare.  (Or he may just find
another car without an alarm ... :-)


===============================================================================
    :: :: :: :: ::     Synth F.    synth@deepthought.unm.edu    U S E N E T   
 :: :: :: :: :: :: ::  Oberheim    synth@yenta.alb.nm.us             in color!
===============================================================================
"Americans used to make products, not excuses or appeals to nationalism
 or racism."		-- Brian Glendenning, bglenden@nrao.edu
Xref: sparky rec.autos:23125 rec.autos.tech:13383 rec.autos.driving:5794 rec.autos.sport:10783
From: crl0195@hertz.njit.edu (Curt R Lindmark)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: *** Design Logic Faults ***
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:18:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: njitgw.1992Oct1.211837.17079
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <6qwyRB1w164w@cellar.org> blu@cellar.org (Dan Reed) writes:
>abe@nutmeg.ntu.edu.au (Abron Lukitsch) writes:
>>  [story about not-working fan deleted]
>
>Well, My 89 VW Golf, did just this, and I was luckey, to *See* that my temp, 
>was up, and that my fan was not turning on.  So, I hopped out, poped off the 
>conector to the rad. switch, and wired it "on" with a paper clip.  Yes, this 
>worked, my fan was now on, all the time... even when the car was off.  This 
>was no good, as my batt, would/could not take this. 

The same thing happened to me.  The switch was broken, so I bypassed it
with a piece of wire until my dad could order a new switch from the auto parts
store.  

O========|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|========0
 Curt R Lindmark      crl0195@hertz.njit.edu         Defender from ages past

Fast, faster, faster, faster, ready to explode
Don't want nothing left of me to scrape of the road
Spirit........OF THE WHEEL!!!!!!!
					-"Wheels of Fire" Manowar
Disclaimer: NJIT is responsible for nothing I don't say which isn't mine.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bay@unislc.uucp (Bethanne Yukman)
Subject: Re: stainproofing seats & carpeting ?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:02:21 GMT

6310550@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM wrote:
: 
: I just bought a 1993 Caravan & would like to stainproof the seats
: and carpeting to protect them from my two kids.  Does anybody have
: any recommendations ?  The dealer was pushing stuff they put on
: but was charging $500 !!!!  Has anybody tried the spray on scotch-
: guard ?  How well does it hold up ?
: 
: Thanks,
: 
: Deb

Just wanted to let you know that I sprayed my new Camry carseats last year
with a can of Scothguard from Checker Auto, and it has worked wonderfully
in protecting my upholstry.  I remember sometime this year spilling
some Pepsi on the seat and all it  did was bead up into tiny droplets
that I absorbed with Kleenex.  

Two suggestions....Make sure you really saturate the seat covers for
the best results (especially if you have kids and they'll be rubbing
it off) and try to spray it on during a warm day so it doesn't stay
ewet.

I think you'll be happy with the results.

PS. Sorry about my typos but I have a strong distaste for vi, and
I never really learned how to use it properly!

BAY