HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,uk.politics
Subject: Re: Tony Benn to abolish monarchy
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:46:03 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk writes:
: 
:   Tony Benn is to submit a private members bill to parliament
: called something like "The Commonwealth of Great Britain Bill"
: 
:     Reports in the press have mentioned it includes such things
: as
:    disestablishment of the church of england,
:    Northern Ireland leaving the UK,
:    voting age lowering to 16,
:    replacing the House of Lords by an elected House,
:    replacing the monarch with a president.

Does this mean that all hopes of uniting Britain with Ireland are
finally lost and there's no possibility of having Mary Robinson as President?
Damn

Richard.
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: london, england
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:33:23 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

In article <1993Jan26.112315.1979@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>I think you missed my point.  The question was whether terms like "The
>West of England" were relative to London or referred to the country as
>a whole.  My point was that the true west of England (i.e. west of the
>central areas) is never referred to as such, whereas the region lying
>approximately due west of London frequently is.
>
If you take "centre" as meaning the centrepoint of population,
you will probably find that the terms "North", "East" "South"
and "West" as applied to England make sense. Don't forget that
half the population of England is in the south-east.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk (Geoff Landergan)
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again. 
Distribution: world
Organization: Kells Consultancy
Reply-To: geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:09:55 +0000

>>a mere few hundred years ago.  However, most of these 'Irish' Irish are
>>Gaels -- they didn't originate in Ireland, but rather invaded Ireland
>>from Scotland, taking over from the Picts, about 1000-1500 years ago.
>
>Not really--the Celts came from Britain ca. 700 BC--about 2700 years ago.

Major ancient invasions of Ireland:-

c. 2000 BC  A people related to the Picts (who lived in S. Scotland)
            conquer whoever lived in Eire at this time.  These 'Picts'
            refered to Firbolgs hereafter.

c. 1500 BC  First Celtic invasion (early Celts, dark haired, originating
            in E. Europe, invading from Gaul).  These Celts didn't
            conquer but co-existed with the Firbolgs from here on.

c. 500 BC   Second Celtic invasion (fair haired, originating in Switzerland
            possibly invading from Spain).  This invasion is at the same
            time as, but clearly unrelated to the Celtic invasions of
            southern England.  The Firbolgs and early Celts are all but
            wiped out at this stage.

(recent)    Various Norse invasions and raids;
            Various Gael raids, no successful conquests;
            The Norman conquests;
            The English.

To be honest, this late Celtic culture survives to the current day, the
existing Irish language is a development of the Celtic language.  The
invasion mentioned above taking place between about 350 and 500 AD was
the Irish invading Scotland, not the other way round; under the command
of Fergus they wiped out the Picts and created Scotland (the word 'Scot'
is the Roman name for the Irish).

>Isles. I truly am skeptical of the notion than a few thousand Celtic   
>wanderers could have "wiped out" an established, developed (and judging
>by Newgrange and Stonehenge) fairly developed society of the time.

'Wiped out' means the destruction of a culture, not racial genocide.
Whether this is carried out by conquest, intermarriage or peaceful
trade is irrelevant to history.  Don't discount the power of a few
thousand warriors in this age - a mere 20,000 Vandals conquered Spain
and N. Africa from the late Romans, a vastly harder task as they had
populations in the millions and a much higher level of development and
civilisation - though no menhir-export business ;-).

-- 
      Geoff Landergan                         geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk
      Mitcham, Surrey, UK
      +44 81 646 2605
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:19173 alt.usage.english:10916
From: mjw@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Alien)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Back from the UK
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:21:35 GMT
Organization: Coventry University


>By the way, "Going to the bathroom" is also a very common euphemism for
>what one does while sitting on the toilet.  "I was in the midst of
>going to the bathroom when the phone rang" would _not_ be construed to

This is an example of American "delicacy". The prudes of the Victorian
era really screwed up the language on both sides of the pond didn't
they.
BTW "going to the toilet" would not mean walking to it over here either
.
WC  is old-fashioned but understood. I believe 'bathroom' would be 
understood too in context although as we all see U.S films we perhaps have
an advantage when it comes to understanding your language.

 

>mean that the phone rang while you were walking to the bathroom.
>

The more I read this newsgroup the more I realise how right Oscar Wilde was to
say that we do not share a language! But the more I read it the more hopelessly
corrupted I become so that it starts to sound ok! :-)


Matt.

-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: mcsavaney_d@apollo.hp.com (#David McSavaney)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:31:00 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1993Jan27.194437.26818@netcom.com> sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>     [much stuff deleted]
>Why not be fair, and say that life in The Big City seems to create
>special cultural adaptations in the animal life there.  Likewise
>all along the continuum between Big City and The Country.
>
Exactly.
My personal opinion is that the entire world is divided into only two 
groups of people;

those that live in and like cities

and those that don't
                          

Dave McSavaney
                                             

Not an official statement of Hewlett-Packard 

Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:19226 soc.culture.german:10182
From: mxsst1+@pitt.edu (Michael Stroucken)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: bathrooms - the German style
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:30:27 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1993Jan16.133559.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>complaint. Or perhaps they don't like the idea of it vanishing
>before they have had a chance to be quite sure that they really
>want to reject it. I wonder that they don't go the whole hog and
>video the entire event. Who knows? Maybe they do. Whatever the
>explanation for this national predilection, I can quite see why it
>hasn't caught on elsewhere.
>Laurence

	You really are one sick piece of shit, dick!

MS
-- 
		Morgens einmal, mittags zweimal, nachts sooft es geht!
Internet: mxsst1@pitt.edu,       Anonymously: wi.6194@n7kbt.rain.com        :)
From: fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Britain and HK
Date: 26 Jan 1993 19:41:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu

In article <2033@spam.ua.oz> jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew) writes:
>In article <1jp8p2INN1n5@bnsgd245.bnr.co.uk> bocmunro@bnr.co.uk (Bruce Munro) writes:
>>In article <1jgi0kINNb0@network.ucsd.edu> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>>>In article <1jerh5INN2q7@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> martin.baines@uk.sun.com writes:
>
>>>>>* What are the UK colonies left after HK is given back to China?
>
>>>>Caymen Islands
>
>>>That's Cayman Islands, please!
>
>Surely it should be 'Cayperson Islands' (ducks for cover after making the
>worst joke on s.c.b for the last decade - excepting DSY and Holwhatshisname)

I'm certain that the feminist movement in the Caymans would agree
with this. They could rename Grand Cayman Grand Caywoman in an
attempt to redress an obvious historic injustice.

(Actually, the Cayman Islands are so called because they were once
infested with alligators, 'caimanes' in Spanish.)

>
>>>>Anguila
>
>>>Two ells, please.
>
>And I thought an ell was a length of cloth!
>
>>>Also, the British Indian Ocean Territory, the British Antarctic
>>>Territory, Montserrat, the Turks and Caicos Islands, Pitcairn
>>>Island, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, and a couple of rocks in the
>>>Pacific.
>
>Note that the British Antarctic Territory claim is disputed by Chile
>and our old favourite Argentina. Britain and the others are bound by
>treaty not to press any claim for such territory. This is widely thought
>to be because the US doesn't have any historic grounds for a claim (unlike
>Britain Chile etc whose claims exist and are merely pathetically weak)
>and doesn't want anyone else to get their hands on it :-)

It would be better to say that the British, Argentine and Chilean
claims overlap.



-- 
Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;                      
She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu
From: cstadgs@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr R J Tinsley)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Charles's DNA tested to prove not illigitimate
Date: 23 Jan 1993 17:57:15 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <1jpg6eINN1p7@early-bird.think.com> sandee@Think.COM (Daan Sandee) writes:
>In 1483, Richard III denied the title to young Edward on the grounds that
>his father's marriage to Elizabeth Woodville was invalid. It wasn't disputed
>who his father was. Though historians disagree on whether Richard's claim
>was correct, it was clear (then as now) that the argument, if true, was
>valid.

... and irrelevant. Richard could have barred Edward from the succession on
the grounds that he was actually _female_, and noone would have complained.

The fact remains that he was able to usurp the crown because noone was
strong enough to stand up to him - not because the nobility were convinced
by his arguments.

-Bob
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Americanisms (was Re: Back from the UK
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:47:35 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

In article <1993Jan26.173924.3418@adobe.com> cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson) writes:
>In article <1k3k22INN1sb@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> martinb@uk.sun.com writes:
>}There is also a lot of the West Country accent in US English -
>
>*sigh* The United States spans some 3000 miles (on the continent alone)
>wide and at least 2000 high. It incorporates coastal regions,
>mountainous areas, vast plains, river deltas, and rolling hills.
>There is not only more than one distinct accent in "US English",
>there are countless accents.
...
>In short (not that I've already run long), Martin's first sentence
>above is absurd and meaningless.

Where DO they get them from? No-one here is denying that
America is the greatest, most wonderful, freedom-loving,
oportunity-giving  etc. etc. motherhood and apple pie etc. etc.
etc. country in the world, but I am sorry, to the British ear,
all American accents sound much the same. By which I mean there
are certain features which are common to most American accents,
but only found in some British accents.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Subject: Re: The Poll Tax
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:54:42 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.092158.16400@osf.org> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:
>Okay, a flat rate local sales tax, say 17 % (as VAT is a present).  Local
>authorities would then have to cut their cloth according to the amount of
>money they take in.  I believe the German Laender receive their revenues
>from MWSt. (VAT) so why not the U.K. ?  I would abolish VAT and the rate
>support grant at the same time.  I also believe the UK should be organised
>into regions with much more power over local affairs, like education, the
>police etc.

The idea of the rate support grant is that it evens up local
authorities. Under your scheme, an authority in a wealthy area
would have far more to spend per head of the population than
one in a poor area.

Also one of the principle choices in democracy is deciding
between a high tax rate and a high level of services, and a low
tax rate and low level of services. It is hardly decentralist
to take this choice away.

I do not see why regional governments should be any less
corrupt than Westminster or town councils. Most of the powers
you want to give to regional governements already lie with
county councils (though the Tories are busy taking them away).
All you are asking for is a few almagamations of counties.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Robert Burns Dinners
Organization: none
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:49:46 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   24 Jan 93 22:50:02 GMT
>FROM:   Ray Dunn <ray@philmtl.philips.ca>
>
>>In refd article rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson) writes:
>>That should be SUPPER not DINNER - we in Scotland call the evening spent
>>eating haggis, neaps, tatties, shortie and drinking loads of whiskey, and
>>listening to Burn's poetry, scottish music, and more whisky toasts 
>>BURN'S SUPPERS.
>
>Well, I was at a "Robbie Burns Brunch" today in an Irish pub, so what're
>you going to make of that?
>
>If you're interested, for $5.95 each we had a Scotch meat pie (kept hot too
[menu...venu]
>Who says Canada has no culture!
>

The group that sings the NAUGHTY BITS has culture!  Avert your eyes if 
you are easily put off by REAL Burns.

To the best of recollection, now 30 years hence -- bits and pieces:

There was a lad, they called him Dave,
And he went o'er the heath to spend,
He paid a lass to lift her leg,
They called him Duncan Davidson.

Large as goose egg, long as a lamb's leg,
And that is the measure of Muirland Meg.
[???}
He rattled the muff, and battled the muff,
And ruffled the muff, 'til the lass heard him say,
"I can't get enough of the stuff of the muff."

[seems like that ought to be "enug" or something, so maybe it isn't Burns.
But this is.]

It fell upon the blithe new year,
When days were short and nights were sae lang, 
I heard an old woman cry, "Relief!"
For he was a quarter within her beef,
For all the cries the old dame gave.

...or something like that.  Wish my memory was better, even though you 
expurgated Burns fans probably are glad it isn't.  

There's another one about 2 women talking over a fence trying to decide 
if a penis was muscle or bone.  Probably WAY too indelicate for this group.

Do you read his ribald stuff in the pubs?  Just curious.  

-jim

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: gt@rundart.demon.co.uk (Giles Todd)
Subject: Re: Back from the UK 
Distribution: world
Organization: Rundart Limited
Reply-To: gt@rundart.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:16:05 +0000

In article <1993Jan22.030456.31470@watson.ibm.com> yozzo@watson.ibm.com writes:

>If, indeed, it is not a question, then would it not be simpler to merely
>say "hello"?
>(Forgive me, if "hello" and "hi" are uniquely American idiosyncrasies. :-))

No.  "How do you do?", "How do you do?" is an introduction protocol
understood by nearly everyone in the UK.  It is otherwise devoid of
meaning.

The problem is that "Have a nice day" rose apparently from nowhere some
years ago.  Its very unfamiliarity caused the recipients to assign some
significance to it.  Unfortunately, any such significance was
contradicted by the manifest insincerity of those uttering the phrase. 
The customer relations consultants who coined it appear to have missed
this point.

Giles.
-- 
Giles Todd                      gt@rundart.demon.co.uk (Internet)
Rundart Ltd                     Demon Internet Services
Voice: +44 925 33472            PGP 2.0 public key available.
From: jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Different Newspapers ...
Summary: Not just overseas either
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:31:59 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

In article <30765@castle.ed.ac.uk> eagv17@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Babilas) writes:
>>  fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>>> Bernie.Jones@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:

>> > (...)Brits simply aren't interested in anything that's
>> > happened outside the country (...)

>Nothing peculiar, I would say. In 1992 many Britons in Edinburgh (!)
>didn't know/belive that Poland was indigenously inhabited by white
>people. ("So, you're one of the settlers, aren't you?" - the  funniest
>reaction). Alas, story based on my own experience. A bit mortifying.

This attitude works 'vertically' as well as 'horizontally'. Not only are
the British not interested in those overseas they often aren't interested
in those over the other side of town. One of the best things I have ever
heard was Lord Curzon saying, after seeing some soldiers bathing naked
during WW1, that he never knew the lower classes were so white!

Almost as good as him explaining sex to his American wife ('In England
Ladies do not move')


Joseph Askew


-- 
Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud  Barbarian horns draw out the northern wind;
jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu  Paler than water lies the Thistle Pass;
Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care  Sky swallows up the road to Kokonor;
One China One Korea One Eire32  Moonlight, a thousand miles along the Wall.
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: london, england
Date: 21 Jan 1993 08:43:29 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: soc
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <4022@wyse.wyse.com>, jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497) writes:
> In article <ba1702Em32cB01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> czl30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Lee) writes:

>                                 We also enjoy
> California Cuisine, which is your basic Nouvelle Cuisine, but made with 
> fresh ingredients year round.

Unfortunately mixed with the no-salt, low-cholesterol, half-fat, one calorie
zero flavour other ingredients...


Steve

-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smckinty@france.sun.com	   BIX: smckinty
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.brazil,soc.culture.bulgaria
From: rolls@cis.umassd.edu (Frank Pinto)
Subject: Re: SHORT NOTICE about a posting in alt.religion.all-worlds
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 05:16:39 GMT

In <1993Jan20.153105.19478@doug.cae.wisc.edu> irfan@n3000c.ece.wisc.edu () writes:

>Anybody interested! 

>There is a PART-1 of an article about the EVIDENCES OF EXISTENCE OF ALLAH (THE GOD)

>WHERE?

>In    alt.religion.all-worlds 
>      talk.religion.misc

What a cope out. I did not see Alt.Atheism in that list.
Are you guys affraid?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk (Geoff Landergan)
Subject: All's straight in love and war
Distribution: world
Organization: Kells Consultancy
Reply-To: geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:37:29 +0000

Comments anybody?

From the Guardian 27Jan93:-

"President Clinton, as Commander-in-Chief, can expect unquestioning
obedience from his armed forces, even if he orders them to fire
strategic nuclear missiles.  But his plan to lift the ban on
homosexuals in the military has already run into tough resistance."

BTW we in the UK had a great advance last June when it ceased to be
a Court Marshall offence to be a (practicing?) gay in the armed forces,
nowadays you are just discharged.

My favourite argument against the proposals in that the presence of
gays on the battlefield would impede the process of male-bonding
which fosters both bravery and mutual trust ;-) .

-- 
      Geoff Landergan                         geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk
      Mitcham, Surrey, UK
      +44 81 646 2605

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk (Geoff Landergan)
Subject: Re: British Sitcoms, etc. 
Distribution: world
Organization: Kells Consultancy
Reply-To: geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:59:41 +0000

In article <C1H7uK.L2u@unx.sas.com> sasmym@angelou.unx.sas.com writes:

>   Thanks for the TV info!  I will look forward to "Grace and Favour" in
>   the next century!  "Yes, Prime Minister" did air here and I enjoyed it.
>   Paul Eddington is fun to watch.  The reference to Felicity Kendall's
>   derriere prompts me to ask--who (or what) is Red Dwarf?

Red Dwarf is a cult tv/sf/sitcom over here, it has been running for about
five or six years with the sixth series due out in march or so.  RD is to
'Star Trek' what 'Married with Children' is to 'The Waltons' (sort of).
Check out alt.tv.red-dwarf, there seem to be plenty of US postings.

>                                                            Also, I just
>   got caught up with this newsgroup--what's all this about Prince Charles'
>   legitimacy (or lack thereof)?

Absolutely content-free.  That thread seems (IMHO) to have about as much
point as a group of tapeworms discussing whether the mice ought to vote
to bell the cat.

-- 
      Geoff Landergan                         geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk
      Mitcham, Surrey, UK
      +44 81 646 2605

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,uk.politics
From: cmh004@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Dave)
Subject: Re: Tony Benn to abolish monarchy
Organization: Lanchester Polytechnic
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:25:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.104323.24889@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> daniel@scs.leeds.ac.uk (D N Crow) writes:
>In article <C1GroH.JF6@cck.coventry.ac.uk>, cmh004@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Dave) writes:
>|> >   replacing the monarch with a president. 
>|> President Thatcher, Major - Please God save us.

>I've seen this exact sentiment expressed frequently... indeed it often seems
>to be the most impressive argument that opponents of a republic in Britain
>can must (!).

>A couple of points for debate:

>1) It depends a great deal on the nature of the presidency. There is a huge
>difference between the roles of President Clinton of America and President
>Robinson of Ireland (for example). If we became a republic, we would hopefully
>replace our "constitutional" monarchy with its (in practice) limited powers,
>with a president with similarly limited powers, rather than an executive
>president as they have in the states. The Irish model seems emminently
>sensible.

Well maybe, but if you elect someone then you expect them to do something
which is a bit more then opening (or closing) a hospital.

>2) The whole point of President Thatcher is that at least we could get rid
>of her, if we wanted to. What happens if King Charles III goes off his
>rocker and starts trying to exercise some of the significant dormant powers
>of the monarchy? There's nothing we can do to get rid of him...

Well we could always do what we did to the first King of that name. Some of the
monarch's power can be removed - like declaring war on who ever their choose.
A monarch who is neutral will be much better than a elected president who would
almost certainly have political ties with some body or other.
What do you think would have happened in 1911 if we had a tory president 
instead of a monarch? 
-- 
Dave                                                       cmh004@cck.cov.ac.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am a one in ten, Even though I don't exist, Nobody knows me, But I'm always
there, A statistical reminder to a world that doesn't care.             (UB40).