HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.boats

In rec.boats, zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke) writes:

    I for one would love to hear your 'war stories' about lightning.

Mine are more like minor skirmishes.

1.  The lightning bolt was fairly close (probably a couple of 100
yards).  My brother who was holding the forestay was knocked down by a
shock.  We assume that he received a current from the induced voltage
in the stay.

2.  Rigged boat sitting on its trailer.  Low threatening looking
clouds overhead.  I grab a shroud and fall delicately (!) on my a**.
I assume that an accumulated charge in the rigging took the
opportunity to discharge through me.

3.  Racing an FD in the middle of Lake Dillon here in Colorado.  The
rigging is sizzling ominously--talk about scared.  Nothing actually
happened because that lake is closely surrounded with hills that get
hit all the time and were getting hits at that time.  As far as I
know (up to about 10 years ago) the lake itself has never been hit.
We did not finish the race; we headed for shore.  During the
post-race discussions, it was suggested that perhaps one should capsize
the boat and wait for the storm to pass.  All agreed it was a great
idea until one person told of his friend "back east" who did just that,
only to then have a hole blasted through the bottom of his boat--sigh!

B.S!

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Subject: Re: Radio Checks, was Coast Guard Boating
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
	<1gu1psINN7ht@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
	<1992Dec21.150504.1403@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:56:38 GMT

> The fact is that using the hailing channels for a radio is illegal no matter 
> how short the call is.  Further, the checks I hear don't usually end with
> "loud and clear at ----."  Isn't this just one more instance of people 
> picking and choosing what rules and laws they will obey?
>
>   Marv Goldstein

Here is a question, I understand that performing a radio check is not a good
idea on 16, however, what about old crystal based tranceivers?  In my case,
I test the unit into a dummy load on 16 and assume that if I can talk to 
someone on another frequency and I have power output on 16 into the dummy
that everything is good.  However, it is quite possible to have any one
crystal go bad.  The transmit and receive crystals are seperate and so
checking for reception is not sufficient...

If you were planning to go sailing at night or during some other time where
the chance of needing to make contact is high, would you perform a radio
check on 16?

I know, the easiest solution is to purchase a synthisized radio...


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Subject: Re: offshore sailing courses
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:50:18 GMT

Might look into Ocean Navigator's school afloat (88' steel schooner)...

207-772-2466

I have heard very good things about these people...


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Celestial vs. GPS (was Re: Bermuda Trip - 7/'93)
Date: 31 Dec 92 11:39:53 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) writes:
>
>At best, the unit could display an estimate of KNOWN error sources.
>All too often in my experience, we overlook important sources of
>error.  So, having the unit display an estimate of error would tend
>to further confuse precision with accuracy.
>
>An example:  A friend--engineer by profession--reported that his new
>car got 19.328 miles per gallon, plus or minus 0.002.  How did he
>calculate this?  He filled up his tank three times, keeping track
>of the distance he had driven and divided that by the amount of
>gas purchased.

Bit amazed that this engineer would make such a claim as there are several
other sources of error, or more correctly, perturbations in his calculation
that would swamp even the topping off error you demonstrated.  But we
digress.... :-)

>How many boaters do you really think would remember that the error
>estimate is only an estimate and might be orders of magnitude off?
>I suspect that most would deceive themselves into thinking that
>they knew things more accurately than they really did.

This is like any number of practical problems involving putting sophisticated
equipment in the hands of the general public.  I suspect that the company
liablity lawyers effectively prevent such error analysis for just this
reason.

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Celestial Navigation Question
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:23:38 GMT
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory

I am starting to learn Celestial Navagation and find that there are many
'systems' by which sights are reduced.  Is there a 'most popular' method?
If one wants to really understand what is going on does one select a
different method?  Suggestions for both are appreciated.

I currently have a book by Arthur A. Ageton 'Manual of celestial navagation'
and Bowditch's 'American Practical Navagator (1962)'


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (You never forget your first gale)
Subject: b-25
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:02:00 GMT

Has anyone had experience racing on or against B-25's? I have some cursory
experience leading me to say they seem to be not as fast as an S2 9.1 upwind
(not a big surprise). They are supposed to be very fast downwind in a blow.
Are they usually sailed pretty hot downwind to surf when it's blowing? Any
conditions where this boat is a dog (I doubt it)?


Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
>Here comes a jet ski.
>weuh weeuhh weeuhh weeuhh WEEUHH WEEUHH WEEUHH WEEUHH weeuhh weeuhh weeuhh weuh
From: cbarr@coyote.sw.stratus.com (Chris Barr)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Which older Balsa-Core sailboats are OK?
Date: 30 Dec 1992 17:58:15 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
Distribution: usa
Expires: 1/15/93
NNTP-Posting-Host: coyote.sw.stratus.com
Summary: 1970? 1978? Tartan? Pearson? Chris-Craft?
Keywords: fiberglass construction

Re - buying an older sailboat, 15-30 years old:

I understand that through-hull or through-deck fittings on balsa-core 
fiberglass must be done correctly to prevent water penetration of the
balsa wood, which would cause delamination of the fiberglass.

Which makers, after generally which year, made balsa-core fiberglass
sailboats correctly?  Is there a publication which would answer
this?

I've seen a 1970 'Pawnee' sloop, made by Chris-Craft, which
appeared to have this problem next to the hatchway, where 
electronics were probably mounted:  a bulgingly deformed
interior surface which had filled-in screw holes.  Otherwise
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 15:00:46 GMT

youngqd@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Dean Youngquist) writes:

...regarding who pays for SAR

>There are 4 funding options here:
>1) Charge each boater each time he is rescued.
>2) Charge all boaters is case of needed rescue.
>3) Charge all US citizens in case boater (or skier) needs rescuing.
>4) Charge all people in the world for the recreatinal saftey of some US citizens

Personally I like #1.  As a practical matter I think potential users should 
contribute enough to cover standing costs of maintaining the capability.  Actual
users should pay cost plus.  The more actual users pay the less the potential 
users will need to cough up.

I know people out there are going to start screaming about how harsh and "unfair"
this is.  But when it costs a couple of hundred bucks minumum to holler for the
Coast Guard more people will check thier gas tanks and carry spare parts.  
As someone else correctly pointed out, the marine equivalents of AAA are 
already springing up.  Proof that the system can be made to work.

In summary, I see nothing more unfair than asking the public to underwrite
the recreational activities of individuals.   The analogy to funding of the
ski patrol is right on the money.  

>Number 2 seems to be the most workable and fair tax base.

>					Dean
From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: GPS fix quality (was: Celestial vs. GPS )
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:42:05 GMT
Organization: New York University, School of Medicine
NNTP-Posting-Host: mchip00.med.nyu.edu

zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke) writes:
-> I expect to see a lot of people aground because they try sailing full
-> bore in the fog believing that they know EXACTLY where they are!!!

You mean like the QE2?
-- 
Roy Smith <roy@nyu.edu>
Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202
NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Celestial vs. GPS (was Re: Bermuda Trip - 7/'93)
Date: 30 Dec 1992 14:33:26 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: amy.cs.brown.edu

In article <MARC.92Dec30085341@marc.watson.ibm.com> marc@watson.ibm.com (Marc Auslander) writes:
>The discussion has so far ignored the dominant failure mode of
>Celestial Navigation - namely foul weather.  If you can't see the sky
>or the horizon, celestial is down!  And, in the midst of the storm,
>its awefully nice to know where the hard stuff is!

It's worth noting that foul weather provides a significant failure mode
for electronic methods as well. Lightning is tough on microelectronics,
and rough weather is hard on all systems in general. It seems to me
that Murphy promises that you'll have your alternator die in the middle
of the storm, rather than at your mooring...

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: carl@Cayman.COM (Carl Heinzl)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Date: 24 Dec 92 20:23:59 GMT
	<1992Dec18.021744.2711@tfs.com> <1907@niktow.canisius.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu's message of 21 Dec 92 09:24:17 GMT


>  On the other hand, I don't understand why one would try to equate the func-
>  tions of the Coast Guard to those of local police.  It seems to me that 
>  their policing role comes much closer to that of a border guard/patrol and
>  agencies in the latter category very much DO have the right to search your
>  car and person without any stated "probable cause" that I am aware of.

Except that the border patrol can only check you out when you're
crossing the border not when you're just approaching it.  

So, unless you leave US Coastal Waters, they (the Coast Guard) should
not be able to board you unless they have reasonable probable cause
(e.g. they see you picking up packages that have been dropped from an
airplance) that you have drugs/whatever aboard.

-Carl-


--
From: kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: inverter and battery use
Date: 31 Dec 1992 22:44:13 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu
Keywords: inverter dc battery life

Holy shit!  Ask a simple question, get a doctoral dissertation in
electrical engineering.

You want to know how long your batteries are good for?  Turn on
everything on the boat, look at your watch, and then look at it
again when the batteries are dead.  Then you'll know.

From: David.Greenberg@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (David Greenberg)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: racing course
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:39:00 -0800

For my painful fiftieth birthday my wife gave me a wonderful present of
a week's racing school at Steve Colgate's Offshore Sailing school on the
island of Captiva in Florida. Has anyone taken this course and if so
what can I expect it to be like. We did take a beginners course a year
ago and found it to be excellent.

Also I have purchased this fall a 1984 Wavelength 24 mad by W.D.Schock
in excellent condition. Anybody out there have any experience with one
of these. There were only 87 built so I'm not too hopeful. I'm hoping it
will be a poorman's J24.
From: mroberts@ptdcs2.intel.com (Mark Roberts ~)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:33:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: ptdcs2.1992Dec24.183312.19187
Organization: Intel Corporation -- Aloha, Oregon

In article <29828@castle.ed.ac.uk> wex@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler) writes:
>In article <29825@castle.ed.ac.uk>, ercn72@festival.ed.ac.uk (R.J.Hare) writes:
>

 ****  discourse about HM services as compared to US Coasties deleted ****

>
>There are also fishery protection vessels - I don't know whether the US
>coastguard does any of that sort of thing.  Actually, I don't know who
>operates ours.  Some of them are certainly part of the Royal Navy, but
>I'm not sure that they all are.
>

On the Northwest coast (of the U.S.) the Coasties do MOST of the rescue
operations required by commercial fishermen.  Some are done by other 
fishermen and a few are done by commercial vessels (tankers, passenger
liners, etc).
>
>
>Finally, there's the question of marine rescue by helicopter.  This is
>normally done by the RAF, which has specialist squadrons for that sort
>of work.

The US Coast Guard has a helicopter rescue division of some sort.  The
port of Pacific City, OR (U.S.) is between two other ports (Depoe Bay and
Tillamook) which each have US Coast Guard stations.  Each of the stations
have a helicopter used for at-sea-rescues.  Being 20 miles from each of
the stations makes Pacific City the northern and southern limits of thier
respective territories.  We will see at least one if not both helicopters
every day.

The Coast Guard has always been very friendly  with me. When I take
my kids down to Depoe Bay on business with the Coasties the O.O.D.
(Officer Of the Day??) is always willing to show us one of thier rescue
vessels.  It's kinda fun.  Those boats are so clean (including the 
engines) that you could eat off of any surface.

>
>    John Wexler
>    Edinburgh

					Fish to Live, Live to Fish
					   'Fish Assassin' Mark
					     Pacific City OR
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Ch 9-- VHF Rule Change
Date: 22 Dec 1992 17:18:52 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.cs.brown.edu

In article <28886@oasys.dt.navy.mil> hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners) writes:
>			 VHF RULE CHANGE
>
>[summary from Coast Guard]
>
>
>Note that channel 9 is "optional", not "mandatory".  Hard to believe
>that the FCC or the USCG can make it mandatory in the northeast only,
>as I thought I saw posted here.

It may be hard to believe, but it's what the Local Notice to Mariners
said, and it's what I've heard being enforced in this area all last summer. 
The move to channel 9 was being tried last year in Region 1 as an experiment
pending moving to channel 9 throughout the country, as I recall. 

I *could* be way off base on this, but I'm pretty careful in my reading
of the LNTM, and I recall noting this change as I've described it. If I
get a chance, I'll look it up at home this evening---I actually hold
onto the back issues for a while(!). 

-John
From: petere@tesla.mitre.org (Peter D. Engels)
Subject: Re: Radio Checks, was Coast Guard Boating
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:00:29 GMT

In article <ZIELKE.92Dec22085638@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil>,
zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke) wrote:
> 
> > The fact is that using the hailing channels for a radio is illegal no matter 
> > how short the call is.  Further, the checks I hear don't usually end with
> > "loud and clear at ----."  Isn't this just one more instance of people 
> > picking and choosing what rules and laws they will obey?
> >
> >   Marv Goldstein
> 
> Here is a question, I understand that performing a radio check is not a good
> idea on 16, however, what about old crystal based tranceivers?  In my case,
> I test the unit into a dummy load on 16 and assume that if I can talk to 
> someone on another frequency and I have power output on 16 into the dummy
> that everything is good.  However, it is quite possible to have any one
> crystal go bad.  The transmit and receive crystals are seperate and so
> checking for reception is not sufficient...
> 
> If you were planning to go sailing at night or during some other time where
> the chance of needing to make contact is high, would you perform a radio
> check on 16?
> 
> I know, the easiest solution is to purchase a synthisized radio...
> 

One very good reason for NOT using the hailing channel(s) to request a
radio check, is that the VERY severe congestion on these channels usually
makes it extremely difficult to be heard, and to hear a reply.

One very simple solution to this problem is to call the nearest VHF
radiotelephone operator for a radio check.  I have done this for years. 
Especially in the morning, traffic on these channels is much lighter than
on Channel 16 (or 9), and I have always gotten a quick and polite response.
 Since the transmitter locations of radiotelephone stations are all
published data, you will also know from whence came the response.  Try it,
and leave 16 to the juveniles that now rule it.

-Pete
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Date: 22 Dec 1992 16:38:25 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Timothy Smith writes:

	Every time I have heard a senior coast guard official speak at a
	mostly Navy function he/she has started by pointing out that the 
	Coast Guard is the oldest armed service in the country. 

This is the crux of the matter and, to my mind, a problem. They are indeed
an armed service. One of the few things I like about Jollie Olde Englande
is that they have a thing called the RNLI, the Royal National (NOT Naval)
Lifeboat Institution, whose function it is to provide assistance for ships
in danger at sea. It used to be chiefly manned by fisherfolk, &c., with
a few professionals to keep the boats in order. This may now be modified.
Basically, it is seagoing folk looking after their own, with some charitable
assistance from the Public and some government funding. Coxn. Blogg of the
Cromer (Norfolk) Lifeboat used to rent deckchairs out on the beach at
Cromer and, i dare say, would make a bit of business out of being the
most decorated for bravery coxn in the business.

							Capn Fido
							FELIX
							Port of Redwood city
Date: Friday, 25 Dec 1992 16:21:17 EST
From: <34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Distribution: usa
Subject: CG boardings/abuse of power - a possible solution

The CG lives and dies by its state of grace in Washington, DC.

That state of grace, particularly in this post-cold-war era, is governed
by budget- and tax-concious politicians who respond to COURTEOUS,
INFORMED pressure from constituents.

President-elect Clinton's Transition Team is already available via E-mail
on Compu$erve. The entire house and senate, I am advised, may become
available via E-mail (Internet, I think) as of Jan. 1, 1993.

Make your feelings known. Bear in mind that it is usually the
most VOCAL groups that prevail, not necessarily the numerically superior.
An apathetic non-boater in Kansas, who says nothing either way
on the issue, is a non-entity politically, as compared to the boater(s)
who make themselves heard.

But you knew that, right?

W. K. Gorman
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: meyer@dbsun.uucp (Don Meyer)
Subject: Re: Traffic Lights, was Radio Checks, Coast Guard Boating
Organization: BioMerieux-Vitek, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:19:37 GMT

In article <moseley.139.725047045@u.washington.edu> moseley@u.washington.edu (Steve L. Moseley) writes:
>Well, I hope I,m not the pedestrian you didn't see crossing in front of your 
>car when you decide to blow the next red light.

I was assuming that the original poster (who said he doesn't see any
point in sitting at a red light late at night with no traffic) meant
that he treated it as a "stop sign".  I.E., come to a complete halt,
look both (all) ways, and then proceed through the red.
This would encompass pedestrian traffic.

This doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.  As a matter of fact, I've
probably done it -- some light are purely timed, and quite long.

Now, folks who treat a red light as a green or even yellow deserve the
flames!

BTW, if you do see me sitting at a deserted red light at 2:00 AM, it's
not due to a "sheep mindset" as much as to a "I'm the one that the
police officer always sees violate a traffic law" mindset! ;-)

Don
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
meyer%dbsun.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu        |||     I am at two with nature.
Opinions expressed are personal.         |||       -- Woody Allen
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Date: 21 Dec 92 09:47:48 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <1992Dec17.222508.2053@ll.mit.edu>, cogen@ll.mit.edu (David Cogen) writes:
> 
> 1) No longer provide assistance to boaters in distress, except in cases of
> imminent life danger. Instead they refer you to a towing or salvage company
> for which they probably receive a kickback.
> 
  "....for which they probably receive a kickback."  Anything to back that up
  or does the "probably" remove you from any responsibility for your 
  statement ? 

  "Offshore Magazine" carries synopses of several C.G. stations' (N.E.) calls
  and activities. What comes through in those is yes, if the problem is out of
  fuel or mechanical failure in non-threatening weather, a commercial tower
  is called.  I don't see any reason to see tax money spent on a publically-
  subsidized towing service.  Many people now carry the equivalent of an AAA
  contract for their boats. 

  greg pavlov
  pavlov@fstrf.org