HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: info wanted on runes
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 15:39:23 GMT

In article <BtqF22.FKH@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:

>Anglo-Saxon (Old English) is the name of a language.

Right, I knew that, but it is not used exclusively to describe a language.
It is also used to describe a person of that heritage, as in WASP, White
Anglo Saxon Pagan. ;-)

Bb,

Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra     |  The great thing about travel is getting to
  Dark Horde by birth   |   meet new people and see new places.
    Moritu by choice    |                            G. Khan
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: janet@indetech.com
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Wicca 101 class
Date: 27 Aug 92 00:20:36 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Independence Technologies, Inc. Fremont, CA

Eric and I are planning to teach another Introduction to Witchcraft (Wicca 101) class
beginning in October. We have developed 7 lessons, ranging from a basic introduction/
overview of Goddesses, Gods, Sabbats, etc., to specific classes on such topics as
herbology, divination, and magic. 

If you are interested, please contact us. You can reach us at (510) 490-3996, or
you can email me at janet@indetech.com.

We live in Fremont, not far from 880/Mowry.

(There is no charge for this class.)

Bright blessings,

Janet
-- 
   Janet Christian             jchristian@indetech.com

My boss agrees with everything I say - well, actually, he thinks I'm working.  
"Never argue with a Scorpio - it's frustrating and you'll lose, anyway..."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Religion, speech, et. al.
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 08:15:46 GMT

 Of course you are right, Silverflame. They could very easily do a lot of
things to intercept what I do, say, post, and read. There isn't much that
I can do about it really. Things may change though.

Wassail,
Grendel

                           mimir@u.washington.edu
    /\  /\       +----------------------------------------+
   /__\/__\      | "I know that I hung on the windy tree  |          |
  /\  /\  /\     |  all of nights nine, wounded by Gar,   |          |
 /__\/__\/__\    |   given to Odhinn, myself to myself,   |          |
    /\  /\       | upon that tree of which none can tell  |          |
   /__\/__\      |      from what root it rises."         |    ______|______
                 +----------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Subject: Re: Bailing Out (rant) (was: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as ever
Originator: bbooth@bcrks6
Keywords: Civil Rights, Pagan
Reply-To: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:52:43 GMT


Ailsa N.T. Murphy writes:
> Liam writes:
> > thier rise to power.  To sit idly by and let it happen or to flee to
> > another country to watch the show is to spit in the faces of those who
> > survived this tragedy and onthe graves of those who have died for thier
> > beliefs, no matter where or when.
> 
> oh, so i'm to stay and wait for them to take my child away because i'm an icky
> icky lesbian who can't be trusted to raise her right.  sorry.  i'm not buying
> tickets out of the country right this minute, and i am certainly hoping that it
> doesn't get this bad, but when it comes to a choice between a political
> movement and my child, well, i guess i must not be very committed, because if
> that is the choise, i really don't give a rat's ass about causes.  i'm a firm
> believer in "out of the closet and into the street," but when they line the
> street with m-16s, it's time to get out of the street and into the fucking
> bunker!

As I was watching the news this morning, there was a story about one of the
Chinese students that fled to the USA during the Tianemen (sp??) Square
incident.  He finished his schooling in Boston and when the Chinese govern-
ment recently "pardoned" all the student "radicals," he returned home.  He
was arrested, along with the news crew that was with him.  Most of the news
crew has been released, but the student is still in detention.

All this brought to mind the current discussion/rant about whether or not
intellectuals should leave a country when things get tough.  If someone
leaves their country for ours due to an oppressive government, we salute
that person and help them.  We rally together so this oppressed person's
cry can be heard.  BUT, when someone decides to leave our country because
they feel that the government is (becoming) oppressive, then they are
called unpatriotic, slandered and ragged on.  Talk about a double standard!


My opinions,

    __o     Brad Booth              | "If somebody feels really good
  _`\<,_    Bell-Northern Research  |  about who they are, they don't
 (*)/ (*)   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |  feel threatened by what other
----------  bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca  |  people are." - Dr. M. Rubenstein
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Aug26.023442.4818@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> 
	<1992Aug26.142938.18217@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 02:45:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.142938.18217@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> 
jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>Well, the US produced Pinochet and the government of Guatemala - it doesn't
>get any worse than that.

Quite true. It is hard to sustain democracy internally when it is not
upheld in foreign relations. Musician DJ Quik has a new song called Jus
Lyke Compton in which he speaks of travelling all over the US and he
says it's all like Compton. He feels safer in Compton. We've made it all
just like Compton, it's all gang turf now, watch your colors and your
signs, check out the real estate. And we are fools. I thought we knew
better also.

>The short answer to this question of "where can I flee to from America?" is
>nowhere, because if America gets interested, it will come to you.  Have some
>guts and fight it where you are.

That's probably not only the short answer, but the answer. Once you're a
gang member, you can't just move somewhere else. Oh, and to be a gang
member, you don't have to join. It's just a question of where you sleep,
where your crib is. Check out the real estate. Chances are pretty good
you are already a gang member based on where you live. Work with that
and you can probably enjoy some form of life, ignore it and you're in
trouble. Move somewhere else, nothing changes. That's no big deal if you
don't expect changes. Joyful participation in the sorrows of the world,
that's what life's about, that is dharma or doing the right thing.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: some favorite Bible verses
Keywords: Luke 14: 26, the smoking gun of Christianity
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 03:10:30 GMT

>>I find Luke 14:26 to be entirely in context, perhaps not quite what some
>>salespeople present.

In article <199209030653.AA12685@intercon.com> 
amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker) writes:
>[For the benefit of those who aren't familiar with the Christian scriptures, 
>the passage in question refers to breaking family and social ties]
>Would you argue with it if it were phrased "You must be willing to give up 
>your links to your past, and your current conceptions of both who you are and 
>your relationship to the rest of the world, in order to continue to learn, 
>grow, and fulfill your potential?"

Well, depends on the degree of "give up", and the big problem is that this
is not what it says. What it says amounts to what we just saw at the GOP
convention, HATE mongering. Gives a new perspective of "family values",
don't you think?

>>If you keep in mind that Yahweh is a warrior God
>>and Christianity represents a combination of Judaism, Greco/Roman and
>>Persian mythologies, it all fits nicely.

>Christianity is indeed all of these things.  Luckily, it's not *just* all of 
>them :)...

Sure, I'll buy that. Learn from dogma but please don't be dogmatic. Jah!
Ras Tafar-I! Music hits you hard but you feel no pain. Hit me with music!
Government says don't use the plant, it makes you rebel. Against what?
Everybody concerned about crime, but tell me, just who are the criminals?
From: liam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Liam)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: re. religious intolerance
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 14:08:57 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:

> liam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Liam) writes:
> 
> >number two...the christians seem to be able to all agree on one 
> >thing, WE represent a comon enemy;
> 
> This is not a true statement.  Not all Christians consider pagans to be enemi
> Most mainline Christian groups, while they may go so far as to feel that non-
> Christians won't get into heaven, do not consider neo-pagans to be enemies.
> They would dump us in the same camp as Jews and other non-Christians.  That i
> they see us as wrong, but nice people all the same.  Of course, this only 
> applies to those Christians who have been exposed to us so as to get to know 
> what neo-paganism is.  It may be true that most of the *fundamentalist* 
> Christians will unite against pagans, but fundamentalist Christianity is no m
> the limit of Christianity than fundamentalist Wicca is the limit of Wicca.  I
> would *much* rather deal with most Christians than a fundamentalist Witch.  T
> Christians, even most of the fundie ones, will treat me with more respect.
> 
> The moral: people in glass houses...until we don't have people like Donal
> telling everyone else how unpagan they are we have no reason to claim moral
> superiority over any other religion or group of religions.
> 
>               Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
>                                Br'anArthur
> 
> Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

      Agreed, one of my friends is a fundie christian. Yet the vast 
majority of christians that know about my beliefs stiil insist on trying 
to either convert me or run me out of my school or off of my job.  I was 
wrong to include all christians in my previous statements because there 
are many good peole out there who follow that path. I was not trying to 
bash ANYONE'S path, because in doing so, I would be bashing myself as 
well as everyone else regardless of their particular path.

        Also, I agree with you about fundie witches....I was initiated by 
one and had her fundimentalist views crammed down my throat....but I'm 
not sure about dealing with the most fundie christians though. :)
                                        Blessed Be,
                                                 Liam

------------------
liam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Liam)
(Alternate) liam%brewich@lobster.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
From: idfraser@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Ian Fraser)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Bailing Out (rant) (was: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as ever
Keywords: Civil Rights, Pagan
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 00:35:42 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada


Come one, come all, to

      A Gathering at the Grove of the Goddess,
The First Annual Western Canadian Wiccan Gathering.

                   Sponsored by:
              The Circle of Ashtoreth,
                A Gardnerian Circle.

Location: Goldeye Lake Centre,
          in the Canadian Rockies

Date: June 18th through 20th, 1993

Cost: $290 to $400. Includes accomodation, food, and transportation to
                    the site from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
     Costs vary depending on type of accommodation and date of booking.

 Speakers and topics to be announced.

Questions can be directed to me via e-mail.


' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '
 
Bright Blessings to you and yours!  
 
Hawk
 
Circle of Ashtoreth, 
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Eyes (was Re: Chocolate (was Re: "gangway, folx"))
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:36:54 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.165704.16368@csus.edu> altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.013118.9950@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>>ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>>amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker) writes:
>>altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:

[a bunch of followups of people saying that they have eyes like mine]

>Well, dammit, I guess we can finally wrap up that nagging P/pagan
>definition question, as we've conclusively found the rule:
>
>   ALL PAGANS HAVE EYES LIKE JANIS' EYES.

Does this mean you all walk around banging into walls?  Trust me, you
wouldn't WANT my eyes; they serve a decorative purpose only.  It's not
like I can SEE out of them or anything.

If I fell off the Empire State Building and landed face first, I would
be unhurt.  My glasses are literally cokebottles; thanks be for contact
lenses. 

>This means of course, there will be those who continue to argue, 
>and we can all agree that THOSE people are pretty frivolous.

And of course, we who argue will argue that those who argue are
frivolous, and will be called frivolous for arguing by those other
blasphemers who argue . . . 

>And likewise, we can expect those false P/pagans with the Janis-
>colored contact lenses, those terrible pseudo-pagans.

NO! 

>Thank the God/Goddess for the TRUE, CORRECT eye color!!

Again, if we are going to carry this to its rightful conclusion, which
you have stated above by saying that all true and correct Pagans have
eyes like mine, that means that any Pagans who can see their hands in
front of their face without corrective appliances in anything but strong
sunlight are not real Pagans.  Paganism is blind, and so is love,
therefore love is Paganism. 

Blessings,
Janis the Poorly Sighted but Okay with Corrective Lenses 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: tncp9@isuvax.iastate.edu (Chaleos)
Subject: Re: New pagans and reading
Reply-To: tncp9@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 07:17:08 GMT

In article <1SEP199220045522@rosie.uh.edu>, lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>
>I've noticed a number of people telling people interested in 
>paganism to go and read.  This is very true, but perhaps we
>should get some suggestions.  I don't know about the rest of
>ya'll but I was scared as shit when I first started nosing my
>way around.  I just *knew* I was going to get caught up into some
>nasty things.
>
>My suggestions (as I will follow my own advice)
>
>Stewart Farrar
>What Witches Do.
>
>Margot Adler (I think thats the name)
>Drawing down the moon.
>
>Starhawk
>Spiral Dance
>

Um...Just out of curiosity, am I correct to say that Starhawk and Margot Adler
are the same person?  Seems like I read her name in the copyright page of
Starhawks book _Truth or Dare_.

> [some helpful advice deleted to save bandwidth]

For those in my little section of the country, I have found Alternate Realities
on East Unversity in Des Moines to be a good place to check out.  They also
seemed to carry a LOT of pagan magazines and news letters last time I was in.

Unfortunately, I have found NOTHING here in Ames.  

-Chaleos

(Derek 'Too many names' Pendragon)

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: re. religious intolerance
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 00:59:31 GMT

liam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Liam) writes:

>number two...the christians seem to be able to all agree on one 
>thing, WE represent a comon enemy;

This is not a true statement.  Not all Christians consider pagans to be enemies.
Most mainline Christian groups, while they may go so far as to feel that non-
Christians won't get into heaven, do not consider neo-pagans to be enemies.
They would dump us in the same camp as Jews and other non-Christians.  That is,
they see us as wrong, but nice people all the same.  Of course, this only 
applies to those Christians who have been exposed to us so as to get to know 
what neo-paganism is.  It may be true that most of the *fundamentalist* 
Christians will unite against pagans, but fundamentalist Christianity is no more
the limit of Christianity than fundamentalist Wicca is the limit of Wicca.  I
would *much* rather deal with most Christians than a fundamentalist Witch.  The
Christians, even most of the fundie ones, will treat me with more respect.

The moral: people in glass houses...until we don't have people like Donal
telling everyone else how unpagan they are we have no reason to claim moral
superiority over any other religion or group of religions.

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: info wanted on runes
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 16:36:03 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <22722@sybase.sybase.com> leighann@sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.065332.2887@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> mongoose@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Conrad Leviston) writes:
>>
>>	Any decent copy of The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien will have Anglo-Saxon
>>Runes in it.
>
>Nononononononono!!!!!!  *DON'T* trust Tolkein for the runes!  His
>dwarvish runes have the right shapes but he deliberately gave them all
>the wrong letter values (A-S scholar that he was, he knew damn well what
>the values were, so the only explanation I can come up with is that he
>changed them on purpose).

	Actually you can trust Tolkien quite well on runes, as long as you
remember what he was doing.  The runes in The Hobbit *are* good Anglo-Saxon
runes.  The "Dwarven Runes" in LOTR, are another matter however.  Here
Tolkien was making and orthographic alphabet - where each letter had a
shape which related it to similarly shaped characters based on how similar
they sounded.  That's confusing sounding, I know, but think of it as "t"
and "d" having similar characters since their sounds are similar.
	I believe the "Dwarf Runes" were patterned after his "Elven
Script", which is also orthographic."  These are not, of course, historical
- he made them up.  The runes used in The Hobbit though *are* historical
A-S runes.

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.drugs
From: ash@ulysses.mr.ams.com (Alan Harder)
Subject: Re: Witchcraft & Hallucinogens
Organization: American Math. Society
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:41:45 GMT


I remember reading that some members of the genus Aconitum were used
as flying ointments.  The poisons in the sap of these plants is
readily absorbed through the skin.  The plants are also known as
monkshood or wolfbane (aconitum lycoctonum).  I hope this helps.
From: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else
Originator: bbooth@bcrks6
Keywords: Civil Rights, Pagan
Reply-To: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:17:36 GMT


In article <7522@monmouth.edu>, c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) writes:
> In article <2A9A8377.18422@orion.oac.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> >
> >If I need to keep a death-dealing device at my side at
> >alltimes to insure that I don't get my rights taken away, I'm slitting
> >my wrists right now.  The next life (if there is one) must be better
> >than having to live like that.
> 
> 	Well, Janis, it was nice knowing you, and I'm really sorry to 
> hear you won't be with us much longer.

Is Janis moving to Canada??  ;)  


      __o       Brad Booth                |  Cyclist with an attitude!
    _`\<,_      Bell-Northern Research    |
   (*)/ (*)     Ottawa, Ontario, Canada   |  These opinions?  They're mine.
 ------------   bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca    |  I left them here on purpose. :)
From: gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Masons/Knights Templar
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 06:56:37 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:

> gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson) writes:
> 
> >I have also read that the Masons are descendents of the Knights Templar.  
> >They are Luciferians (note that is NOT the Christian SATAN).  They are a 
> >very pagan organization, or at least were.  I know my Father and my very 
> >christian Uncle are both members of the Masons.  My uncle was 32nd Level 
> >Mason, yet, doesn't realize that the Masons are NOT christian.   My 
> >father doesn't know that it's a pagan organization (or was).  I wonder of 
> >(of=if) all masons are as blind as this, or are there some "real" masons 
> >out there?
> > 
> Um, there is a logic problem here.  If everyone who is up to 32nd doesn't kno
> about this Luciferian concept, then only the 33rds know about it.  That means
> that the Mason's aren't really Luciferian, since only a couple people in the
> world would know about this.  Actually, from what I've heard, the only 
> Luciferianism in Masonry was one interesting person who interpreted Masonry
> to fit his own ideas.  Since all Masons are encouraged to fit Masonic symboli
> with their own religious ideas, this means that most Masons will see
> the symbols through their own Christian religion.  There may be other Masons
> since the one author who've adopted a Luciferian posture, but that is not
> inherent to Masonry.  Masonry is neither pagan nor Christian, and is capable 
> being interpreted to fit with either.
> 
> Disclaimer, I am not a Mason (yet).
> 
>               Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
>                                Br'anArthur
> 
> Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

excuse the excessive quoting, this editor doesn't like me.  anyway, what
i was trying to say is my uncle either 1) does not see it as a luciferian 
group (how can he be a christian and worship someone other god?) 2) does 
see it and doesn't care.  That's all i was trying to say.  from what i 
know of my uncle, he's a bigoted WASP, but he gives his all not to be 
hypocritical (intentionally), and his being a 32nd level mason to me 
seems intentionally hypocritical.
 
Gerda

------------------
gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson)
(Alternate) gerda%brewich@lobster.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: no kill file
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:34:33 GMT
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden

txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling) writes:

[another, probably interesting, article, which was unreadable due to TOO]
[many spelling mistakes]

>ELF-KIN	just because some one segests that one read the bible does
>not meen that they think that you should beleave it.

I am killfiling this person. Please tell me when she has gotten
herself a spellchecker, and I will remove her from the kill file. Her
articles seem interesting, but I can't spend half an hour with each of
them trying to *guess* what she means.

--Ceci, bewildered


--
=====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================
"Where is the mythic archetype who will save us from ecological
catastrophe or credit card debt?" 
Ian McDonald in King of Morning, Queen of Day