HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Date: 26 Jan 93 11:46:28
Organization: DEC Network Systems Lab
	<VIXIE.93Jan24010432@cognition.pa.dec.com>
	<1993Jan25.234151.1583@rei.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cognition.pa.dec.com
In-reply-to: fox@rei.com's message of Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:41:51 GMT

fox@rei.com writes:
> vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie) writes:
> >Would TMC be willing to configure its news transport to unconditionally
> >accept control messages in "alt.*" from tale@uunet.uu.net?
>
> How do you handle the problem of forgeries?  Becker has been known to do
> this.

first, i'd like to announce that the alt.cabal control messages will be
coming from vixie@vix.com rather than from tale@uunet.uu.net.

second, to answer your question, i believe that making this a subscription-only
service should arrange it so that "becker" will never even see the control
messages.  and in any case, the members of the "alt.cabal" will not be
accepting control messages in "alt" from anyone other than the alt.cabal.
if "becker" somehow learns of a control message and decides to anti-rmgroup
it by forging an alt.cabal message, we will institute some kind of authenticat-
ion on our control messages to prevent a recurrance.
--
Paul Vixie, DEC Network Systems Lab	
Palo Alto, California, USA         	"Don't be a rebel, or a conformist;
<vixie@pa.dec.com> decwrl!vixie		they're the same thing, anyway.  Find
<paul@vix.com>     vixie!paul		your own path, and stay on it."  -me
From: bbs.odina@gilligan.tsoft.net (Henry Roth)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: alt.politics.radical-left
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:37:41 GMT
Organization: The TSoft BBS and Public Access Unix, +1 415 969 8238

I support the proposal to create the newsgroup,
"alt.politics.radical-left"
Hank Roth

--
Henry Roth (bbs.odina@gilligan.tsoft.net)
From: ke94002@black.ox.ac.uk (Daniel J Mitchell)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.lycra
Subject: Re: What happened to alt.lycra?
Date: 28 Jan 93 12:23:53 GMT
Organization: Oh, come /on/..
Originator: ke94002@black

In article <1993Jan26.153749.11203@infodev.cam.ac.uk> crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
>Some months ago, the group alt.lycra was created. Propagation was bad.
>
>I used to have to read most articles in the USA, as UK sites missed
>them. Then the feed died out in Denver, too.
>
>Finally, last week, my local site bogused alt.lycra. When I enquired,
>they pointed out that uunet had stopped carrying the group.

 Well, this got to Oxford; presumably, then, propagation inside the UK
is still working, but nothing's getting through the borders, so to
speak.  Very strange indeed. And, yes, if some friendly newsmanager
could re-newgroup it, I'd appreciate it greatly. 

 Thanks.

-- 
Daniel Mitchell = ke94002@black.ox.ac.uk = skinny bi lycra-clad furry juggler
From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: why cant i get ALT.COMICS.LNH????
Date: 21 Jan 93 12:24:02 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

In article <1993Jan18.160323.2853@dct.ac.uk>, bssbc3gsd@dct.ac.uk (Grant Doig) writes:
> 
> We dont get it here.
> 
> It is on the list of groups we have but we dont get it.

Ok please don't flame Grant Doig by mail. He did ask me (system admin)
first and a quick check showed that my main feed site didn't carry it.
Neither did it appear in the last eunet checkgroups message. It also
has a distribution of only 33% according to the latest arbitron data.

I can only assume some major hub site (possibly eunet,uknet,uunet)
'lost' the control message resulting in very patchy distribution
and have issued a fresh newgroup.
-- 
Alan Greig                            Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology	   Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK
Tel: (0382) 308810                 Int: +44 382 308810
              -- There is only one true conspiracy --
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Michael David Toth)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  alt.music.TBone-mafia
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:44:52 GMT

In article <63568@mimsy.umd.edu> mdtanx@cs.umd.edu (Michael D. Tan) writes:
>This is a proposal for a music news group dedicated to those
>LA artists related through T-Bone Burnett: Peter Case,
>Sam Phillips, Tonio K, Mark Heard, Victoria Williams, etc.
>
>Michael Tan
>mdtanx@cs.umd.edu

Hmm.  Maybe this should be cross-posted to
rec.music.folk/alternative/christian/music-makers.  This weird subgroup
of musicians is almost its own genre of music, with the only real 
connection being that they're somehow affiliated with T-Bone, while they
sort of cross between those other classifications.

Also eligible to be listed with the above: Bob Neuwirth, Steven Soles,
David Mansfield, Alpha Band, The Call, Van Dyke Parks, Marc Ribot, Elvis
Costello, Bruce Cockburn, (to some degree:) Bono of U2...

There's got to be a better name for the newsgroup though -- while this
is a pretty tightly-knit sort of musical mafia, to the uninitiated, the
word "mafia" is an inevitable throw-off.  Maybe something like:

alt.music.Tbone.et.al  OR  alt.music.TBBurnett.et.al  ?

*I'd* be looking forward to it!
Michael Toth
tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu


Newsgroups: alt.config
From: jamie@cs.sfu.ca (Jamie Andrews)
Subject: Re: announcing the alt.cabal
Organization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:25:35 GMT

     But Paul, what is to stop the newgroupies from forging
alt.cabal control messages?  They have been forging articles
from Jef Poskanzar for months...

     What we really need is a public-key encryption scheme:
- tale, vixie, et al post encrypted date-stamped control messages
- participating dealers automatically decrypt the messages and
  repost them with "local" distribution 
- participating dealers acknowledge control messages only from
  the people they trust.

     No, I'm not volunteering to write the software.  The last
time I tried to do that... oh well, that's another story.

--Jamie.
  jamie@cs.sfu.ca
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:55:00 GMT

Who polices the cabal?  On what basis do cabal members make the
decisions?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.lycra
From: crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones)
Subject: What happened to alt.lycra?
Telephone-Messages: +44 223 33 4900
Address: Christ's College, Cambridge CB2 3BU, ENGLAND.
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:37:49 GMT

Some months ago, the group alt.lycra was created. Propagation was bad.

I used to have to read most articles in the USA, as UK sites missed
them. Then the feed died out in Denver, too.

Finally, last week, my local site bogused alt.lycra. When I enquired,
they pointed out that uunet had stopped carrying the group.

SO: What's happened to alt.lycra? I am not aware of any objections
having been raised to its creation or continued existence. If nobody
sees any reason not to, I'd be grateful if some newsadmin(s) out there
could try sending out another newgroup message for it.

Thanks,

--Clive.
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: fox@rei.com (Fuzzy Fox)
Subject: Re: alt.answers alternatives
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:16:43 GMT
Organization: Recognition Equipment, Inc.

jef@netcom.com (Jef Poskanzer) writes:

>Of course, if Kamens decided to start enforcing his moderation by
>cancelling other people's articles, there would be problems.

I don't see a problem with that.  This is alt.  He can do that.  The
fact that this is only rarely done is a tribute to how nice we are all
being to one another.

-- 
#ifdef TRUE        | Fuzzy Fox (a.k.a. David DeSimone)       fuzzy@netcom.com
#define  TRUE   0  |
#define  FALSE  1  |         "S-O-C-K-S ?   Wow, Spanish *is* easy!!"
#endif             |
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: etlanar@yogi.ericsson.se (Chops)
Subject: alt.games.super-nes
Organization: Ericsson Cellular Division
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 13:04:35 GMT

>
>   Due to the growing traffic on rec.games.video I suggest the formation
>of alt.games.super-nes, a Super Nintendo only newsgroup which would deal with
>buy and sell, cheats, anecdotes, game reviews, etc...basically anything
>having to do in any way with the Super NES.
>
>    Well????
>

Sorry I disagree, I think we should either take this one of two ways :-

1) Form a more organised rec.games structure -

   rec.games.video.snes
   rec.games.video.genesis
   rec.games.video.marketplace

   etc

OR

2) Organise rec.games.video better, ie encourage better subject lines :-

  Subject : [SNES] Help with SMW
  Subject : [GENESIS] Sonic 1 Cheats


I don't see the point in starting an alt. group. Especially since some poor 
folks won't be able to read it.


Chops




--
--            CHOPS (c)              |   "Harsh but fair, smooth but even"   --
--  etlanar@deep-thought.ericsson.se |                                       --
--      ERICSSON Cellular UK         |      Standard disclaimer applies      --
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mdtanx@poptart.cs.umd.edu (Michael D. Tan)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  alt.music.TBone-mafia
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:47:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742
In-reply-to: pete@mimsy.umd.edu's message of 22 Jan 93 18:29:10 GMT


OK, how about this:
  alt.music.tbone-artists
  
Michael Tan
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens)
Subject: alt.folklore.urban FAQ (was Re: No, don't)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:51:51 GMT

In article <2516@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:
|> I don't know the status of the AFU FAQ.

As of January 24, it has, with minimal fuss and fanfare, been submitted and
approved for news.answers.

There, now, that wasn't so hard, was it?

-- 
Jonathan Kamens                                         jik@MIT.Edu
Aktis, Inc.                                    Moderator, *.answers
From: phs265y@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL to create alt.politics.radical-left
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:47:36 +1100
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

In article <1993Jan22.021442.14255@uvm.edu>, aforum@moose.uvm.edu (autonome forum) writes:
> subject: Proposal to create alt.politics.radical-left
> posted by: autonome forum
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Proposal to Create alt.politics.radical-left
> 
> We would like to see the creation of alt.politics.radical-left,
> an unmoderated newsgroup whose function would be to act as a
> forum for news items and theoretical discussions dealing with
> leftist politics, national liberation struggles, militant
> resistance movements, etc. This newsgroup would, in some ways, be
> a more radical-left version of groups such as
> misc.activism.progressive, and would have a definite left-wing
> political focus, unlike other alt-realm groups like alt.activism.



        We support the formation of such a newsgroup

                                  Tony Hartin
                                  International Socialist Organisation
                                  Australia
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: mknip@niksula.hut.fi (Mats Anders Knip)
Subject: Re: Proposal for new alt group: alt.fan.david-lynch
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
	<1993Jan21.084522.2137@msus1.msus.edu>
Date: 22 Jan 93 11:52:21

>   I, for one, vote for the new newsgroup.

So am I. But please please please DO NOT comment 100 lines just
to add a single statement in the end. Just leave a couple of lines
so that people know which thread you are referring to, but don't
comment the whole article. OK?
--
 *=--------------------------------------------------------------------------=*
 *                     E-Mail:   mknip@niksula.cs.hut.fi                      *
 *     Helsinki University of Technology / department of Computer Science     *
 *=--------------------------------------------------------------------------=*
Xref: sparky alt.config:8537 alt.tv.twin-peaks:3956
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: New alt group: alt.divorce
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:21:52 GMT

Why wouldn't soc.couples be a good place for divorce discussions?
Surely there's a population of people there with some interest in the
topic.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:37:38 GMT

vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie) writes:

>[Hans de Graaff]
>> Doesn't that defy the whole purpose of alt, it being an uncontrolled
>> hierarchy? 

>What alt is is "bread and circuses".  I have no wish to soil the altness
>by exercising some kind of editorial control; all I want to do is share
>some of the work of deleting groups like alt.ensign.wesley.die.die.die.
>(I hate wasting inodes even more than I hated wesley crusher, believe it
>or not.)

pretty anal.

josh

Newsgroups: alt.config
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: INN config problem?
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:16:52 GMT

In article <1jps9rINNiru@lynx.unm.edu> datkins@carina.unm.edu 
 (Drexel Atkinson CIRT) writes:
>We ...  are using uunet news group listing as the basis for our valid
>news groups.  One of our users contacted us about a group that was
>deleted as being not valid.  The group was alt.support.mult-sclerosis
>which by its name seems that it would be valid.

Uunet probably missed the original newgroup message.

  alt.support.mult-sclerosis      Discussion group for people affected by MS.

I carry it, and so do a number of other alt.* "cabal" sites.

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher              news@uchinews.uchicago.edu
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:34:54 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <2638@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:
| In article <1k5felINN8q1@nigel.msen.com>, emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti) writes:
| 
| > Votes are for weenies, cabals are for control freaks.  Post early and often.
| 
| I'd welcome a group that used common sense in creating/managing alt groups and
| I believe that this is what is being proposed.  I certainly don't wish to see
| any sort of "voting" or "staw poll" introduced, but if a group of ALT admins
| could come to a consensus on groups, I'd certainly welcome an "alt.cabal".

  We shall see... I support controlling the names of groups, but not the
content. Names should describe the content of the group, and should be
in reasonable places. If groups with discussion of unpopular topics
start falling off the list, look for creation of another hierarchy. I
think people will reject control of WHAT they read, but probably not
what it CALLED.

  And the bulk of the sites may not accept the choices, although the
first suggestions were good ones. It will allow feeding the parenting
groups to sites which can't take all the rest.
-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
	A terible poker player can have a great hand,
	A obnoxious fool can have a good idea.
	Both are winners, regardless of who has them.
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:23:17 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <1js1vkINNhr0@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller) writes:
| In article <9301230551.AA23727@gw.home.vix.com>, vixie@vix.com (Paul A Vixie) writes:
| > i'm nipping at the edges of some of the older cruft in my active file.
| > i would like to make the following changes.  does anyone object?
| > 
| Yes, leave it alone. Trying to 'reorganize' alt will simply double the number 
| of groups on a topic and split the conversation between them. You cannot
| succeed in completely removing an alt group. There will be enough 'becker'
| types to guarantee that the old groups will never be removed. 

  I feel reasonably confident that if the major news sites like uunet
join the alt.cabal, and enough smaller sites like ours follow on, that
the wars will stop because no one will be paying attention to the
raving.

  I think this was long overdue, since my main objection to alt groups
is the naming rather than the content.

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
	A terible poker player can have a great hand,
	A obnoxious fool can have a good idea.
	Both are winners, regardless of who has them.
From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Date: 24 Jan 93 09:04:32 GMT
Organization: DEC Network Software Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: cognition.pa.dec.com
In-reply-to: rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu's message of 23 Jan 1993 18:15:16 GMT

[Richard H. Miller]
> You cannot succeed in completely removing an alt group. There will be
> enough 'becker' types to guarantee that the old groups will never be
> removed.

I'm sorry, I've been out of alt.config for a while.  Who is "becker" ?

Would TMC be willing to configure its news transport to unconditionally
accept control messages in "alt.*" from tale@uunet.uu.net?  You're probably
right that noone can kill old alt groups, but would could get a band of us
together who all trust a central authority and at least keep the cruft out
of the bigger news servers.  My active file has 6,510 lines in it, and I'm
feeling pressed by my kernel to make each "active" line worthwhile.
--
Paul Vixie, DEC Network Systems Lab	
Palo Alto, California, USA         	"Don't be a rebel, or a conformist;
<vixie@pa.dec.com> decwrl!vixie		they're the same thing, anyway.  Find
<paul@vix.com>     vixie!paul		your own path, and stay on it."  -me
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: No, don't (Was: Re: eschew moderated alt newsgroups)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 05:59:28 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:
  +
  +All of us have been, at one time or another, "stuffy".  Every once in a while
  +we need to step back and smell the packets, I suppose.

Terry, I'm not sure that I want to step back and smell any "packets"
when you're or anyone else is "stuffy."
  +
  +I don't know the status of the AFU FAQ.  Being a "free thinker" I never look
  +for spoon-fed answers (here on the Final Frontier of ALT ;-)

You won't get spoon-fed answers from the AFU FAQ.  I think it's
more along the lines of newbie bait sometimes.

Terry "Try charging Terry, works wonders for creativity" CHan
--
Energy and Environment Division   | Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory      | 
Berkeley, California  USA  94720  | Yeah, right.
From: jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: announcing the alt.cabal
Date: 26 Jan 1993 23:46:52 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pit-manager.mit.edu

In article <VIXIE.93Jan26114338@cognition.pa.dec.com>, vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie) writes:
|> > Will you still send your control messages to people who may not follow them?
|> 
|> absolutely not.  the political effects of letting an alt.* control message
|> go to someone who didn't ask you for it are extremely unpleasant.  i have
|> no wish to enter into pissing contests with people like this "becker" i keep
|> hearing about; it's far better for everyone if i only allow control messages
|> to go to members of the alt.cabal.

No, no.

He didn't ask whether or not you'll send the message to people who didn't *ask
for them*.  He asked whether or not you'll send them to people who *may not
follow them*.

In other words, can someone subscribe to the alt.cabal but choose to apply its
control messages at his discretion?   Or are you requiring that all members of
the alt.cabal obey all (authentic) alt.cabal control messagse?

-- 
Jonathan Kamens                                         jik@MIT.Edu
Aktis, Inc.                                    Moderator, *.answers
From: pallesen@med.wcc.govt.nz (Lloyd Pallesen)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  alt.music.TBone-mafia
Date: 22 Jan 1993 01:16:19 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council, Wgtn, NZ
Distribution: na
Reply-To: pallesen@med.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: blade.wcc.govt.nz

In article <C17qIt.7Jq@ucunix.san.uc.edu>, tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Michael David Toth) writes:
>In article <63568@mimsy.umd.edu> mdtanx@cs.umd.edu (Michael D. Tan) writes:
>>This is a proposal for a music news group dedicated to those
>>LA artists related through T-Bone Burnett: Peter Case,
>>Sam Phillips, Tonio K, Mark Heard, Victoria Williams, etc.
>>
>>Michael Tan
>>mdtanx@cs.umd.edu

I'd be supportive of such a conglomerate newgroup

>Hmm.  Maybe this should be cross-posted to
>rec.music.folk/alternative/christian/music-makers.  This weird subgroup
>of musicians is almost its own genre of music, with the only real 
>connection being that they're somehow affiliated with T-Bone, while they
>sort of cross between those other classifications.

[names of various subversive musicians/groups etc. deleted]

>There's got to be a better name for the newsgroup though -- while this
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

agreed

>is a pretty tightly-knit sort of musical mafia, to the uninitiated, the
>word "mafia" is an inevitable throw-off.  Maybe something like:
>
>alt.music.Tbone.et.al  OR  alt.music.TBBurnett.et.al  ?
>
>*I'd* be looking forward to it!
>Michael Toth
>tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu

I'd second that motion

**************************************************************
Email:  pallesen@med.wcc.govt.nz  or try 
uunet.ca!med.wcc.govt.nz!pallesen@kink.uucp  tel: (04)801-3281
"Hey don't shoot me man, I'm just a graceful slow dancer, 
I'm just a dream, not real to you at all" Bruce Cockburn
**************************************************************

>
**************************************************************
Email:  pallesen@med.wcc.govt.nz  or try 
uunet.ca!med.wcc.govt.nz!pallesen@kink.uucp  tel: (04)801-3281
"Hey don't shoot me man, I'm just a graceful slow dancer, 
I'm just a dream, not real to you at all" Bruce Cockburn
**************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: an7343@anon.penet.fi
Subject:      Re: PROPOSAL to create alt.politics.radical-left
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.config
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:59:06 GMT

Yeah - the proposal to create alt.politics.radical-left sounds great to me!
There's definitely the need for such a group.
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Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.sport.photon