HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: abortion
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:46:23 GMT
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr10.174100.15160@cs.rose-hulman.edu> lindercs@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:

>	The problem in abortion is deciding what is a good case for one.  I
>say that anyone who wanted an abortion should be screened and counseled first. 
>Their situation should be analyzed and a third party should be able to decide
>if it is the only course of action left after the others have been absolved.  I
>realize that this is stepping on the right of choice of women on what to do
>with their own bodies, but as stated earlier, I believe that the fetus has a
>right to life.  Since there is no alternative left to the fetus but its
>mother's womb, the choice should be handled by a third party.  This party
>should weigh the rights of both the fetus and of the mother.  The
>considerations of both situations should come into effect.  Also, if a person
>did choose to have an abortion, and whether or not they were found acceptable,
>they should also be counseled in contraceptions.  In this case also,
>contraceptions should be promoted, along with sex education, by the school
>system.  

Okay, let's look at your criteria:

	1) Anyone wishing an abortion should be screened and counseled first.

	Okay, fair enough.  Women or girls who discover they are pregnant are
often distraught and can almost certainly use a counselor to educate them 
about the choices available.  Granted.  Planned Parenthood already does this.

	2) (out of order, I know) They should be educated in contraceptives.

	Complete agreement here.  No question.  PP also does this.

	3)  A third party should make the decision.

	Wait a second.  What third party?  I'm assuming you don't mean parents
or priest, because they cannot make an objective decision.  The counselor 
from before?   Assuming they know the case well and are as well-acquainted as
possible with the girl or woman's situation?

	I would bet you anything that the majority of women who went through
this process would, if turned down, resort to back alley and coat-hanger 
abortions.  That is what history has shown us; that is what happens.  Would 
you be able, morally, to accept the risk to the mother in this scenario?

	Even if the counselor feels that there is not sufficient justification
for an abortion, said counselour *cannot* take into account all the factors 
that may be pressing upon the girl.  Family pressure, cultural pressure, 
religious, scholastic...monetary.

	And even if the counselor could make the best possible choice for the
girl or woman, I, personally, would refuse to hand over such a decision to a 
disinterested third party.  That's not a particularly logical decision - but
that is what I believe in.

						 - Kateri

P.S. - This is not a flame, please don't take it as one.
-- 
The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
And you, you are a thousand miles away,
There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wednesday, 15 Apr 1992 23:50:37 EDT
From: Abner Mintz <AXM113@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Natural Science, Natural Religion (was Re: Thoughts on Biblical...
 <1992Apr12.142204.10704@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
 <1992Apr14.073748.22303@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Apr15.165246.712@NCoast.ORG>
 <bruce.703380250@harry>

>>"Common sense" has some pretty severe problems with quantum theory, too.  If
>>*that* is the determining factor then you'd best stay tuned:  the show isn't
>>over yet.

>Mmmmwell, I dunno, after a while you start to develop some pretty good
>intuition about QM, as well.  Scary, isn't it...

>Skeeve

No, what's scary is that my intuition has ALWAYS been quantum.  It wasn't
until I hit my quantum classes that I could really trust the obvious answer ...
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: tjlee@iastate.edu (The Lamplighter)
Subject: Re: Isaac Asimov
Originator: tjlee@pv740b.vincent.iastate.edu
Organization: Seven Wishes Lamp Co.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 05:19:26 GMT

Michael (the Chaotic) McAfee writes:

>		No toast could do justice, so instead a suggestion.  Most
>	everyone can name the Three Laws of Robotics, and the word 
>	'robotics' is said to have been coined by him, so does anyone know 
>	how to petition the publishers of Bartlett's Guide to Quotations 
>	to have the Laws added to the next edition? 

	The Lamplighter has the _Oxford Dictionary of Modern Quotations_
open.  "'The three fundamental Rules of Robotics ....'" he reads.
"'One, a robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow
a human being to come to harm .... Two ... a robot must obey the orders
given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with
the First Law ... three, a robot must protect its own existence as long
as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.'"
He looks up.  "There you go -- Isaac Asimov.  Shown here as being from
'Runaround,' in _I, Robot_, published 1950."

-----------------------<| "Often the test of courage is not to die
  <=|- Tom Lee -|=>   -<|  but to live."
  tjlee@iastate.edu   -<|  -- Conte Vittorio Alfieri
-----------------------<|
From: vad276g@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Stephen McNamara)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: balrog meets Tizrak !
Date: 2 Apr 92 15:28:09 GMT
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.


   1:26am and the brumby is still at it.

>>"watt....amp i in this punfest....ooooooooooooh nooooooooooooo."
>>--

>Panther grimaces in reply.  She climbs up on a table and sits cross-legged.
>"Need to get rid of negative energy..." she says.
>She closes her eyes and says in a low voice "Ohm..."     

   "I should meter out some punishment for that."


-- 
     The Silver Brumby of      vad276g@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (till Apr 13)
      the Silicon Plains           brumby@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au

      The grass is always greener on the other side of the network.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Graydon Saunders)
Subject: Re: More Rhetoric.
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 92 19:34:00 EDT

Greetings!

I think you've neglected to account for both hte Neolithic ethic
(if you're not from our village, or you try to make us change our
ways, you must be a witch and we may need to kill you - which is
rather sensible in a borderline culture that has no surplus to
take risks with)  and the Myth of the One Truth - the idea that there
is an objective absolute truth accessible to mankind.

In the abscence of either of these ideas (which people have made up)
you lose the idea that everyone has to be doing the same thing.

THEN you can work on convincing a beauracrazy that it is a *good*
thing that the conformity that creates it's power base is going
away.

Graydon

        Graydon the Curious         /graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca
  Skraeling Althing, EAldormere, MK / "Nihil est quin obsisti possit"
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: seawasp+@pitt.edu (Ryk E Spoor)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Thank you very much...
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:29:45 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Apr13.075404.23904@ucc.su.OZ.AU> mar@physics.su.OZ.AU (David Mar) writes:
>Sea Wasp, I always knew the Baron must have nicer relatives.

	The Wasp grins and bows. "It so happens that in my gaming worlds (and,
by 'contamination', those of several other people) there is the race of 
Intelligent Toads... and not ONE of them is evil. They were quite appalled by
the Baron; and even more so by the fact that in the standard gaming manuals,
ALL the amphibian/frog/toad type races are depicted as either stupid or
nasty. So we felt it was time for the Toads to show their true colors...
TOADally revealing, you might say..."

                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
.        ..               .             .        *           .      .
 .     .      :      .        _*_    .        .          .             ..
.   .     .   .      @---====OOOOO====---@~/^\    .     .       .       .
   .   *     .     ..         ^*^  .    .  ;;;      .      .      .   *
 :    .     .    .        .      .            .*         .     .        .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interphase Accomplished. 
Sea Wasp docked, Outring Sector 5.
From: jmh@cipric.mn.org (Janet M. Huss)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Potstickers, and a return
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:35:41 GMT


The Grey Lady happily offers potstickers to Caithelin, and anyone else 
interested in giving them a try.  "I've finally gotten this 'bottomless
pot' thing figured out," she comments wryly.

She carefully sets the pot down when she hears a familiar voice. 
"Escorpia!"  she calls.  She weaves through tables and chairs and 
patrons to throw her arms around the recent re-arrival.  "Aahz is 
around here somewhere, I'm sure."

The Grey Lady
jmh@cipric.mn.org
From: erikred@ocf.berkeley.edu (Erik Nielsen)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Rhetoric: The End of Morality in Society (?)
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:51:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.rsufrINNcj0
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: avalanche.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr7.093518.24264@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski) writes:
}i respect anybody's right to not believe that abortion is a good or
}acceptable thing on their own moral or religious grounds.  

Agreed.  However, I refuse to acknowledge the right of anyone to force
another human being to behave within the parameters dictated by the first
person's beliefs.

As long as Pro-Lifers continue to attempt to raid abortion clinics, I will
maintain my right to form barricades around said clinics.  And my friends
and I wear a hell of a lot more spikes than most Pro-Lifers.


}as ste-mother to 3 teenagers, i believe that it is important to teach
}children about responsible sex.

Yes!  Education, not dictation!

}abortion is not the best choice.  but sometimes it is the only choice.

Agreed.  And that is what Pro-Choice is all about:  CHOICE.

}abortion won't end if it becomes illegal again...it will just go back
}underground and it will cost the lives of many, many women."

Too true.  Coat-hangers: now 101 uses.  :-(

}***************************************************************************
}conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
}"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
}                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 
}
}"kittens today are not properly trained--the way that they were when
}victoria reigned." asparagus (gus: the theatre cat)


Erik, the BFG
-- 
     "All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
			Roy, _Blade Runner_
Erik Nielsen					erikred@ocf.berkeley.edu
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Huh? [Re: Dr. Asimov]
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:34:48 GMT
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera

In article <1992Apr13.053926.8793@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, mar@physics.su.OZ.AU (David Mar) writes:
>"Now this," says Danger Mouse, "sounds as though it could explain the rapid
>intensity variations of quasars. I take it that your postulated stimulus
>propagates through the quasar close to the speed of light (or at it) and
>so 'catches up' to the induced emissions, producing rapid variations from
>something very large. This is quite reasonable, until you discover that for
>this mechanism to work, the stimulus must be directed towards us, along the
>line of sight (or in a very small angle close to this line). Most of the
>time, the stimulus would travel in a different direction, and the same
>smearing out of the fluctuations as I described with my trombone analogy
>would occur. But this is not what we observe - _most_ quasars vary their
>optical output on the same sort of timescales. Therefore, either the
>majority of quasars are 'pointing' directly at us, as opposed to random
>positions in the universe, or your proposed mechanism is incorrect.
>Now there is nothing special about us that might cause such a pointing, so
>we are left with the conclusion that we can still use these arguments to
>infer a maximum size."

OK.  Thanks.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: mbr2@quads.uchicago.edu (Curious Of All Natures)
Subject: Re: All mind and no heart?
Reply-To: mbr2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 06:21:03 GMT

Lamplighter-
        Aha, that was probably it for me too- very aggressive and
hurtful teasing in grade school.  I describe my own protection as
retracting my emotional investment from the social system around me
and taking on an observer role.  I wasn't a complete loner- I always
had a couple close friends.
        I too am realizing that not feeling things consciously is bad
for me.  However, I'm not shy in unfamiliar company.  Furthermore,
just as I seem to go through life unfazed, so too do I go unhurt.
Whenever someone does or says something hurtful, I'm in my own mental
model of their personality and can often understand that they didn't
do this without ill intent.  I'm an optomist- whenever I don't know a
person well enough to explain something, I can usually find an unhurtful
interpretation.
        Do you see the problem?  If my thinking mind has been throwing
dirt over emotions, rather than letting me experience them, I want to
stop it.  But I have no purchase, no grip, on what do do differently.
I can imagine that my emotions are just an unanalyzed part of what
it's like to be me (not particularly unhealthy, right?).  Or there
could be oceans of corked emotional experience within me that never
gets air.  I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.  Where's my
heart?

Matt Ryan, mb-ryan@uchicago.edu    Curious Of All Natures
=========================================================
Usually I take things one day at a time, 
however several days seem to have attacked me all at once.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Subject: Re: most passionate of the Signs ???
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-16278]: spop.navo.navy.mil
Reply-To: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Organization: POPS Operations
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 05:01:24 GMT

In article <122420043@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
|> In alt.callahans, JMPIERCE@USMCP6.BITNET (JIM PIERCE) writes:
|> 
|> > 
|> >    "gee kitten, I thought it was the Cancer types that were the most
|> > passionate. After all, I read an article in a magazine that stated
|> > that women should pay more attention to Cancerian males. Most of them
|> > look rather plain, but if there was a video screen on a Cancerian
|> > male's forehead, more women would be interested in them. No joking
|> > actually. I did read the article, it was by 'Martine.' It appeared
|> > for one year and was called 'The Sensual Astrologer.' Ah yes, I
|> > like it. { Cancerian males don't stand up when introduced to a
|> > woman, because they already are. } My birthday is June 27."
|> >   NickD. { yes, I have a video... }
|> > 
|> 
|> I am a cancer, and I am NOT fucking passionate.  OK!?
|> 
|> And if anyone could see a video on MY forehead, they would
|> run screaming.
|> 
|> doug

          "okay, I believe you. I guess I should have placed a
       smiley on it. Myself, I sort of like the idea of a video.
       Neither party would have to guess about what was on the
       mind of the other and no lies would be possible. It might
       also cut down on the 'Mr. Goodbar' types finding victims.


         oh doug, another method of telling if someone is a cancer or
     not is, how crabby they are !" :-) <- see, a smiley...

        NickD.

-- 
     pierce@navo.navy.mil  Jim Pierce aka Nick D.

    "I want a new duck...." Weird Al Yankovic
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: ablanch@physics.su.OZ.AU (Shonias)
Subject: Re: abortion
Organization: School of Physics, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:19:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.170931.10741@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> jwwalden@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (P'relan) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.012326.9971@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, ablanch@physics.su.OZ.AU (Shonias) writes:
>P'relan looks rather perplexed at one of Shonias' leaps of logic, "How does
>their choosing to die instead of spending life in prison indicate that they
>belief that they're guilty?  It indicates to me that they don't want to spend
>the remainder of their life in prison with no hope of getting out and that's a
>comprehensible viewpoint even if prisons weren't the horrible types of places
>they tend to be..."

"AH, yes, good point, well my main reason for that assumption is our
endless court of appeals. People can appeal again and again, and given
that this is the case, I have grave doubts that anyone who really believed
themselves innocent would choose to die, because it is unlikely that
they would stay in prison forever. I grant you your scenario is possible,
but very unlikely, abd at least the person themselves is making the decision,
rather than a separatr person. I did say tha I didn't think it was the
ultimate solution, just a step in the right direction. Gee, I really am
not very good at getting my point across, does that help P'relan?"

Shonias

--
********************************
Just when you think you're free
The eyes are what you see,
Why are they watching me?
********************************
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: ablanch@physics.su.OZ.AU (Shonias)
Subject: Picnic!
Organization: School of Physics, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 08:15:33 GMT

Across the meadow comes the soft sound of music, gentle
music of a kind that inspires the listener to dance, and
with the inspiration comes the ability, to dance in the
graceful style of ballet, but more understated.

Shonias smiles as she hears the music of her homeland,  
"DM, can I convice you to join me? Perhaps we can start
a trend." She doesn't wait for him to answer, but grabs him
by the arm and runs out into the field.

As they move out of the way of the picnickers, Shonias
thinks she catches a glimpse of Lord Galdrin asking the 
Didi-Sprite to dance, but she is not sure.

Soon most of those gathered have got up to dance, and
after sharing a lovely tune with DM, Shonias thanks him
with a kiss and calls out to the Sprite, "Didi, your 
favourite mouse appears to be without a partner..."

Shonias peers around, she is sure Frosty must be lurking
somewhere here... Yes there he is, "Will you honour me
with your company on the dance floor, Frosty? I have 
missed your company lately" She smiles softly to him,
she is very pleased to see him.


After a time the music fades away, and the picnickers return 
to their blankets. The chatter returns and Shonias notices
Walker. "Hello Walker, as you see I have finally made it!
Of course there was never any doubt that I would be back
for Didi's picnic! Good to see you here too, we had almost
forgotten what you looked like!" Shonias offers Walker a
hug, and some of the spread she has brought to eat.


After some food, Shonias looks about, and notices, just at 
the edge of vision, a lurker... yes, he is there, she smiles
at him and waves, "Hello Mick, are you still there? Come
and join us if you will" She smiles to herself and wanders
over to where Lord Galdrin is sitting, and greets him with
a smile, the kind of smile that shows right through to the
heart...
"My Lord, we seem to have so little time to talk..."

Shonias

--
************************************
I have no need for moonlight
You're wrong to trust in sunlight
For I exist, not just in song,
But in life itself, in so many forms
To leave you cold.
************************************
From: steve@Advansoft.COM (Steve Savitzky)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Calling Ariel and Mathex!!!
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:45:15 GMT
Organization: Advansoft Research Corp, Santa Clara, CA

"Thanks, Aahz.  One of these days I ought to re-post that, I suppose.
Or follow up on it somehow.  I still have 'FREE CYBERIA' in my .sig..."
--
\ --Steve Savitzky--  \ ADVANsoft Research Corp \       FREE CYBERIA!      \
 \ steve@advansoft.COM \ 4301 Great America Pkwy \ Committee for a Free and \
  \ arc!steve@apple.COM \ Santa Clara, CA 95954   \  Independent Cyberspace  \
   \__ steve@arc.UUCP _________408-727-3357___________________________________
From: jwwalden@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (P'relan)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: abortion
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:09:31 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Physics

In article <1992Apr13.012326.9971@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, ablanch@physics.su.OZ.AU (Shonias) writes:
> "This is very true, and there is one (not altogether satisfactory)
> alternative. In Australia we finally have a sentence that is called "life"
> and means life. Never to be released. There is a big problem with this, 
> and that is, that we have found a criminal, so vile that we have taken
> his/her freedom away from them for all of their lives, but we are supporting
> them, it costs society a lot of money to keep people in gaol. But, there\
> is the element of doubt. One option is to allow the criminal the choice
> to die. Not a lot would choose it, but some would, you only have to look
> at the number of suicides in prisons. Some would choose to die, in which
> case, they have obviously decided that they are guilty, and who can be
> a better judge than the person themselves. I am not suggesting that this
> is a total solution, but it seems such an obvious beginning, I don't
> understand why it is not used."

P'relan looks rather perplexed at one of Shonias' leaps of logic, "How does
their choosing to die instead of spending life in prison indicate that they
belief that they're guilty?  It indicates to me that they don't want to spend
the remainder of their life in prison with no hope of getting out and that's a
comprehensible viewpoint even if prisons weren't the horrible types of places
they tend to be..."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
P'relan (and Birith)               "Jellicles can and Jellicles do
jwwalden@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu     Jellicles do and Jellicles can
or jwwalden@miavx1.bitnet	   Jellicle songs for Jellicle cats" - _Cats_
Newsgroups: alt.callahans