HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson)
Subject: City Rock Comp
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:05:56 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: City Rock Comp
Distribution: world
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
  Last night I saw a comp at the Emeryville City Rock Gym. The one 
previous comp I saw (a couple of years ago in Berkely) was rather
tedious from the spectators point of view, so I didn't know what
to expect. I seems that they really learned from their mistakes.
This one went very smoothly, with minimal interuptions between
climbers.
  There were a couple improvemnts over the previous comp that were
immediately apparent. The first was that all the finilasts came out
and pre-viewed the wall at once, eliminating the extra time it takes
for each individual to do so. The second was that they already had
the courses set for both the men and the women when 5:00 came around,
(the comp I saw before I sat around for an hour waiting for the course
setter to finish). Another thing they did which was great was they
took turns with the women and men climbing, with the last 8 climbers
being 1 man the 1 women, etc. And since the last 8 climbers were the
best of the lot, it really was a good format, as you watched 2 courses 
being climbed intermitently. It was a VAST improvement!
  Course setters:
  Steve Schneider
  Hans Florine

  Winners, placers, and showers!
  Men                                 Women
  1) Doug Englekirk (what an effort)  1) Allison Osiou
  2) Jim Karn (Not Cairn)             2) Bobbi Bensman
  Third place, I'm not too sure about, but I think it was Kurt Smith
for the men. For the women, it might have been Diane Russell. Doug E.
was the only guy to summit. Karn was 1 move from the top when he fell
and he wasn't too happy about it. Allison was the only woman to come
close to the top, and I'm not really sure whether she made it or not.
She clipped the top anchor, but didn't make it to the top hold (at 
least not after clipping, because she backtracked 1 move after using
the top hold, to clip. It was kind of weird). Well, enough babbling.
IT WAS KOOL!

************************************************************************
"Would you believe it if you     |  Pepsi ad campaign in Thailand;
saw it with your own eyes?"      | Come alive with the Pepsi Generation
   Asked the woman               |    In Thai translates to:
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***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bill@bohemia.metronet.org (Bill Dixon)
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Organization: Bohemia BBS System
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:05:12 GMT

cptully@med.unc.edu (Christopher P. Tully,Pathology,62699) writes:

[Previous stuff deleted]
>Another question (to everybody) if you know you are going to be doing a
>lot of climbing that requires a full length rappel, why not use double
>ropes (say 9mm in stead of 11mm) and not have to carry a second rope
>just for rappeling?  Or am I completely off base?  Are double ropes not
>good for rappeling on?

Actually my partner and I have been climbing exclusively on 2x9mm ropes for 
years.They're fine for rapping, though a bit hot for long free raps. It preventsyou from having to trail an additional rap line, and is greatfor 3 person 
parties as a single 9 is plenty tough for a top rope fall. 
Then there are the traditional advantages of using double rope technique
(as opposed to twin rope technique) for protecting weird pitches. This is 
especially nice when clipping from bad stances as you can clip just one rope at a time, minimizing your fall if you peel while clipping (ie w/ 6+feet of slack,
if the clip is head-high). It also means you can stay belayed on one rope if you
MUST untie to retreat from the middle of a climb (instead of just clipping in to that single piece of pro (bolt)).

				-Bill
>---Chris
>*********************************************************************
>Christopher P. Tully				<cptully@med.unc.edu>
>Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill		1122 Vic Charles Dr.
>Department of Pathology				Raleigh, NC 27606
>CB# 7525			work: (919) 966-2699
>Chaple Hill, NC 27599		hone: (919) 851-8816
>*********************************************************************
> All opinions above are Copywrite <current year> Christoper P. Tully
From: morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:29:32 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Cupertino, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

seafed@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (paul.w.campbell..jr) writes:
: Some time ago, there was a lively discussion concerning 
: the appropriate knot to use for joining Rappel ropes.
: I was not able to follow the discussion because of the press of business,
: but wonder if there was consensus reached.
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
On the net??!! You must be kidding.  ;-)

Assuming the ropes the same diameter I personally like the Double Fisherman.
Its fairly smooth, to reduce catching while being pulled down, and its
easy to quickly check visually for correctness.

Even though I like it, I rarely use it because I generally rappel on ropes
of different sizes.  When a climb requires a full rope rappel we usually
carry a "Zip-line", 7 mm static rope (its lighter).  I tried the 
Double Fisherman knot on it at first but the big difference in the size of 
each half of the knot made me nervous.  So now we actually loop the ropes
together through bights and tie 2 figure eights back on to itself. 
Its terrible for hanging up on things but it makes me feel better about
the little rope.

--Bobbie Morrison
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: double 9s was Joining of Rappel Ropes
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 01:07:40 GMT

Another use for double nines is testing the response and flexibility
of new climbing partners.  Some people are so rigid in their perspective,
they just can't handle anything which differs from the way THEY do things.
It is slightly more complex and belay plate were designed with two holes
(except for a very few early ones the off-rectangular ones by Salewa).

Great for spliting the rope load on longer approaches (50-50).

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Date: 29 Aug 92 17:18:16 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

In article <1992Aug29.024833.19448@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> bobh@fuji.hwr.arizona.edu (Bob Harrington) writes:
>In article <1992Aug29.001739.25317@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug28.102715.16677@hellgate.utah.edu>
>>allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>>>I think someone mentioned this but the Double Fisherman's knot is pain
>>>to untie.
>>
>>How critical is your time to untie them and how do you work to untie them?
>>I've not had problems.  I work on one of the external loops first.
>>Typically takes about 30 secs to undo.
>>
>
I agree.  The advangate of not hanging up as eaily far outweighs the
disadvantage of being difficult (but not impossible) to untie.  It
really isn't all that hard to get the damn knot undone.

>they wear out too fast. Has anyone out there used enough different brands
>of nine-mil to have an opinion as to which is the most durable? I've had
I have limited experience, but of the brands I've tried, I think BY
FAR the most durable small rope is the Mamut.  In fact, I use their
8.5's since they are lighter than 9mm and almost as strong.

All depends on various factors, some of them psychological.

>
>I think double nines make rockfall less worrisome -- you have twice as
>many ropes that have to be chopped before all your ropes are chopped.
>
This is the security double ropes give me, too.

jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
Jim Klavetter
Astronomy
UMD
College Park, MD  20742
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:17:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.024833.19448@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> bobh@fuji.hwr.arizona.edu (Bob Harrington) writes:

>This has been my experience too. I would use double 8.8s routinely, except
>they wear out too fast. Has anyone out there used enough different brands
>of nine-mil to have an opinion as to which is the most durable? I've had
>bad luck with Black Diamond 8.8s. After a few months, there's a hole in
>the sheath, even though the sheath is not very worn elsewhere.

I've been bitching about this also.  My first Mammut 8.5mm fuzzed
rapidly, but it held up.  The second snapped its sheath very quickly.
A little shy, I replaced it with a 9mm, which instantly got munched on
some really sharp quartzite, and converted to a 45m rope.  The latest
was a Bluewater 8.5 mm (really a 9mm, BW is terribly off).  This lost
one direction of the sheath, over about an inch the core shows, but the
other direction of the weave is intact, keeping the core in
(temporarily).  I have no idea at all how that happened, and since my
previous ropes (11mm) all lasted long times, I have the (probably 
overinflated) idea that I take good care of my ropes.

The sheath on a Bluewater 9mm Revolution appears to be really tough, the
equivalent of an 11mm sheath.  However, this rope seems to be the weight
of a 10mm super-single (contrary to advertising claims).
For the mature figure, a pair of these should
provide an excellent safety margin, and look like they would wear well,
if heavily.
-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
But I make a profit of 3 1/4 cents an egg by selling them for 4 1/4
cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for 7 cents an egg.
Of course, *I* don't make the profit.          Joseph Heller, Catcha 22
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Subject: Another Scott Aldinger story
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 02:09:32 GMT


My friend Scott, told us this one....  (if you remember an earlier
post about the time Scott was climbing with John Bachar up near
Boulder and Estes Park, I guess this happend on the same trip)

Somehow the conversation got around to smoking pot, or something like
that, and about that plane that crashed up in Tuolumne with the large
quantity of marijuana on board.  I guess the camp 4 locals had quite
a heyday....

John bought an old vw bus with his share of the profits and Kauk
purchased an old sports car of some type (which lasted a whole 3-6
months or so)

He also commented on taking some of the weed home with him when he
visited his parents and drying it in his mothers kitchen in the oven!

when she asked him what is was, John  replied......

"tea mom, its some of that herbal tea"


tims

--
            tim schneider

    timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  OR
  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc
           (602) 436-3078
From: kaeufl@ira.uka.de (Thomas Kaeufl)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Biotopschutzgesetz translation?
Date: 4 Sep 1992 11:23:40 +0200
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG
NNTP-Posting-Host: iraul1.ira.uka.de

I was surprised to see that this article has been distributed
to sites outside of Europe. When submitting it to the News I
restricted the distribution to Europe, since a restriction to
Germany was not possible for me.

So what is the  *Biotopschutzgesetz* ?

When you read the answer your might think that the Germans
have gone to be crazy, provided you love Germany. If this
would not be the case, you might think even worse about the
Germans.

The Biotopschutzgesetz has been passed by the parliament of
Baden-Wuerttemberg being a member of the federal republic
of Germany. It is a law for the conservation of the nature.
(It is not a law for protecting it against pollution.)
Rocks (among other parts of the nature) are declared to deserve
as much conservation as possible.

To put it briefly: This law has the consequence that rock
climbing will become impossible.

There are strong associations claiming Baden-Wuerttemberg to
be free of rock climbers. These groups work for the conservation
of the nature, but they also state the best way to achieve
this consists in keeping the other people away from the nature.
(To be precise: Many of them do not struggle against pollution.)
And they have great influence on the authorities. The problem
for the associations for rock climbing is to preserve the
access to the rocks. The article describes some of the
difficulties. Its details are important for German climbers
only.

Some words on the rocks and on climbing in Baden-Wuerttemberg.
The most important centers of climbing are the valley of the
Danube and the black forest. Any kind of stone can be found:
Limestone, granite, porphyry and gritstone. Their height
varies from 10 to 50 m. Nevertheless some of most famous
climbers come from this part of Germany. For example Reinhard
Karl, (he was the first German climbing Mt. Everest) or the
group climbing together with John Harlin the north face of
Eiger.

As the federal parliament of Germany plans a similar law, the
future is dark for the climbers outside the Alps. There will
be the danger, that German climbers will be obliged to
travel long distances to rocks, for example to the Alps or
to other parts of Europe.

=========================================================================

   Thomas Kaeufl,  Tel.: +49-721/608-4206, Email:  kaeufl@ira.uka.de
                   Fax.: +49-721/60 77 21

   Institut fuer Logik, Komplexitaet und Deduktionssysteme
   Universitaet Karlsruhe, Postfach 6980, D-7500 Karlsruhe 1

=========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey)
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:05:38 GMT

I've got a great knot I call the "rat's nest".  Requires no concentration
to tie. Looks different every time I tie it.  In fact, sometimes the rope
ties this knot itself.  Sort of an "automatic" knot...

Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)
From: luong@naxos.inria.fr (Quang-Tuan Luong)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Rappel ropes (was Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes)
Date: 29 Aug 92 19:05:11 GMT
Reply-To: luong@sophia.inria.fr
Organization: Inria Sofia Antipolis

In article <1992Aug28.143922.19009@samba.oit.unc.edu>, cptully@med.unc.edu (Christopher P. Tully,Pathology,62699) writes:

|> Another question (to everybody) if you know you are going to be doing a
|> lot of climbing that requires a full length rappel, why not use double
|> ropes (say 9mm in stead of 11mm) and not have to carry a second rope
|> just for rappeling?  Or am I completely off base?  Are double ropes not
|> good for rappeling on?

You are right. The purpose of double ropes is to be as good for rappeling 
on than for climbing with. hence their constant use on mountain or big 
cliffs (Verdon) routes. It is the most polyvalent rope.

However there are reasons why some people prefer to climb single ropes:
- less rope drag
- more easy to clip in (important only to climb free)
To my opinion they are perhaps justified only in very hard climbs. 
If you carry a normal length single rope, you will have to carry another
lighter rope to rappel. I have seen only one party using a double length
simple (!) rope, they seemed happy with it. When I asked if it wasn't a
bore to pull in all the slack, the guy replied that you do it on belay, which
makes sense...

I sometimes use on alpine climbs (mainly solos) a 8/9mm rope and a 6mm rope,
to gain weight and maniability. The first one is sufficient for climbing, the 
second remains in the pack in case, but I am criticized for this practice.

Tuan.
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: double 9s was Joining of Rappel Ropes
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:05:56 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Aug29.070142.3366@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>
>Also popular with people at Ames is "Device is not a typewriter."

My favorite is "can't grok mt."  Remember that one?
But this probably belongs in a different newsgroup.
-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: kevo@polaris.unm.edu (kevin lane  smithstonana)
Subject: beginner
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 18:28:57 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: usa

      I am beginner in this sport and i was wondering if you
could please send me some information on how to get started.
I would also like to know if anybody knows of great places to
climb in New Mexico.

thanks
kevo
email kevo@carina.unm.edu
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques
Date: 31 Aug 1992 20:58:44 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver

In article <28128@sophia.inria.fr> luong@sophia.inria.fr writes:
>In article <l9tbrkINNl4n@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
>|> I am amazed at all this negative publicity.  I might remind the
>|> readers of the net that nearly all great alpine and rock faces
>|> (yeah, like the Eiger, Walker Spur, Cime Ovest, El Capitan,
>|> etc., etc.) were first climbed using body belays.
>
>And ropes which were in fact static and fragile, without climbing harnesses.
>It doesn't mean they were climbed a safe way. For example, Bonatti writes 
>("Il giorni grandi") that during his own ascent of Walker Spur, he arrived 
>in a crag at a point where he was almost sure that a fall would have been 
>fatal, and by some moves that he considered desesperate, went through.

Don't really know how this applies to body belays, there are still
times on very difficult new routes where "you fall, you die" applies,
regardless of the type of belay(or lack thereof).  When you are pushing
the envelope, there are times when you are not completely safe, some
people call this being out of control, other call it being in there
element!

Bruce
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Tying in to the back of a harness (was Cathedral Pk. Accident...)
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:58:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Sep1.184131.21675@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:

>Some older harnesses used to have a very solid looking loop in the
>back that was clearly for anchoring.  The present batch including my
>BD look pretty wimpy for that...



I have a bod harness also.  I wouldn't tie into a loop in the back
even if that loop were super strong.  The reason is that by so doing
I would not be tied directly into the leg loops.  Notice that this
harness (and a lot of other harnesses) is designed to have the tie 
in go through both the belt and a separate piece from the leg loops.  
This gives it extra safety.  Even if the buckle comes undone you are
still tied into the leg loops.  (I do *not* recommend experimenting
with undone buckles except on the ground, however.)  

Also, when the harness is used as intended much of the force goes 
directly to the leg loops, reducing the force on the buckle.  If you 
tie into the back nearly all the force will go to the buckle.  (Yes, 
there are some (thin) straps from the back to the leg loops but they 
are usually rather loose to allow more freedom of movement.  They
won't transfer much force to the leg loops.)

My advice would be to tie into the front as the harness was
designed.  Take advantage of the extra safety provided by tying into
both the belt and the leg loops.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Ah, to climb in CA...Chalking Up (was: grease)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 01:22:12 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <15217@umd5.umd.edu> jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter) writes:
>Ah, to climb in CA...

Oh?!
Martha Roos (another ex-netter) says that, too.  Can't understand why.

KLAUS: IF YOU ARE READING THIS, SEND YOUR ADDRESS to receive up your PRIZE.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Worst belays
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:56:34 GMT

>>1) What is the worst belay anchor you've ever encountered (must be ON-ROUTE)?
In Toulomne there is an easy 5.6 that leads up to single 1/4 bolt.
Old and rusty.  I think the route is "Far West".  While the topo
clearly shows only one bolt, I refused to believe there could be
such a thing until I found myself clipping in to it.
>
>>2) What is the most uncomfortable belay "stance" you've ever encountered?
I can think of several that tie for this when climbing with a party
of three!  Buried in ropes and gear with people stepping on one
another.  Small alcoves seem to produce this result.  I can't supply
route names because I've repressed them into the sub-concious.