From: jan@oliveb.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Jan Parcel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: the "darkness" of DS9 (was: Re: TREKIES)
Date: 15 Aug 92 20:02:27 GMT
Reply-To: jan@oas.olivetti.com
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc


NOTE: followups set to rec.arts.startrek.misc
>
>>>In article <55525@olivea.atc.olivetti.com>, jan@oas.olivetti.com writes...
>>>>( I hope that the darker tone of the sets for the new series will not 
>>>>translate into more grossities a la Batman, or the later Indiana Jones 
>>>>films, etc.  A touch of that, like in Star Wars, is fine, but if overdone it
>>>>turns off most girls and women and parents I know, unless it's so

>Somebody reading the above paragraph over my shoulder remarked that it
>just set the women's movement back 50 years.  She said it......not me.

Ouch!! As an occasional poster to soc.feminism, I guess I wasn't clear
enough.

>Be that as it may, If you place Batman and I. Jones in the grossly dark
>category, and Star Wars in the dark but watchable category, then I
>have to tell you that Star Wars is considered kiddie stuff in the 
>world of darkness.

I had read this "darkness" as a visual, artistic, darkness, not as
a philosophical depth issue.  In other words, BATMAN II and Indiana
Jones II (not I), didn't get very deep philosophically, but there was
lots of teenage-boys-love-it (according to marketing surveys, not me)
gore.  As I pointed out in a previous post, I LIKED the dark sets, but
black fish-guts dripping from teeth was too much.  

In this context, if market surveys show boys relish gore like Indy II
more than girls, (a difference that may be changing) why would that
be an insult to GIRLS?  I'd see it as an insult to BOYS!  


>This is not a flame of your timidness and/or shelteredness and/or
>taste, but rather an observation and statement.  If Star Trek
>got only as dark as Star Wars (thank dog it's been darker) then
>I doubt that the kind of message flow on ras* would be as it is.
>Philisophical threads would be far and few between.  Heated
>discussion would no doubt be a lot lower (not that every one of
>these stems from 'dark' elements).

Star Trek hasn't gotten darker as in grungier than Star Wars.  It has
dealt with more ambiguity -- in fact, one of the things I thought killed
BattleStar Galactica and hurt the ST movies was that the writers seemed
to be unsure whether they were writing for a mythic,  Joseph Campbell
universe or a fallible universe where choices are often moral as well
as strategic and there are shades of grey in both motives and results.
I claim the two universes don't mix well -- pick one universe for one
story or series.  ST, in all flavors, including DS9, should NOT be the 
Joseph Campbell stuff.

There is a third universe-type I dislike, one where the ambiguity has
triumphed completely and the story's message is amoral -- root for the
guy that will win, regardless of his/her respect or lack thereof for
the persons of others.  While these can be fun exceptions to the usual
conservative and/or liberal moral pap from the media world, I don't like to 
see valueless values take over, and I hope DS9 doesn't do that.  

I'm not too worried, however, about too much "darkness," I think facile
plots are a more common danger on T.V.

>I would LOVE a Star Trek where the darkness level of episodes like
>"The Mind's Eye", "Best Of Both Worlds", "Yesterday's Enterprise",
>"Conspiracy", "Sins Of The Father" etc are considered the norm.

Agreed.  

>I would also LOVE a Star Trek where the humor in "Deja Q" is 
>considered the norm for when humor is called for.

I haven't memorized the episode guide by name yet.  Something to put
on my to-do list?

>In general, a more INTENSE Star Trek. Less Namby Pambyism.
>Less Family Ties.  Less Who's The Boss.  You know what I mean....

Actually, I enjoy the VARIETY in tone.  A writer can take the easy way
out of either a serious episode or a comedy, or can do a good job of
either.  And either can deal with human emotions as they really are,
or can slide out of plotting by using one-liners.  I'd like to see more Cosby 
Show and less Family Ties.  "Conspiracy" was facile -- it may be necessary
for the new generation, but to those of us who have studied McCarthyism
it was trite.  I'd also like to see more episodes like BOBW->Family,
and I loved "The Gift" -- that one did some subtle exploration in-between 
moments of hitting one on the head with the message.  

One non-trek show that I've only seen once, but it was GOOD, was "I'll Fly 
Away." I'd like to see that degree of seriousness in some episodes of STTNG.

>ferenc

~~~ jan@orc.olivetti.com   or    jan@oas.olivetti.com  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If Affirmative Action continues, someday a woman or minority of dubious
qualifications will become V.P. of the U.S., and the President will say 
"it's only fair to give" him or her "a chance to grow into the job."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current