From: gregpen@crash.cts.com (Greg Penetrante)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: More Betacam info (Pro-betacam?)
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:18:33 GMT

In <1992Aug17.105025.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu> pjharris@gallua.gallaudet.edu writes:

>DO NOT, I repeat, NOT, go to M-II.  My evaluation of the latest generation
>of M-II lead me to recommend Hi-8 over it!  I have had nothing but problems
>in the past with it.  Slow-reacting servos (seeing as though it's just a
>modified VHS transport) that when they do kick in, kick in at 32x in shuttle
>mode, and slow down what I consider should be a fast edit session (news).
>I've had two BRAND NEW ones crap out (and these were for AIR PLAYBACK), and
>no explaination offered from Pan. as to why.  That's just the mechanics...

>Now the quality. Sure the bandwidth was increased, but so was the noise.  I've
>had non-SP Beta look better than some of that stuff.  Please don't send it
>anything where the whites even APPROACH clipping, you'll be sorry.  It's only
>saving grace with me was the fact that I was using the AQ-20 head on the
>camera, a very good quality camera head if I've ever seen one.  The tape
>system,though, leaves a lot to be desired.

>I'm not starting an argument here, just offering a caveat.  My experience
>with Sony, although more expensive, has been much, much better than my
>experience with M-II.  If you're looking for something on which you can get
>consistent quality at tight tolerences, go with Beta-SP, or research the
>2000SP line, I haven't so I can't offer much in that area.  I have dealt with
>M-II though, and until I see the next generation I'll keep clear of it.

>Patrick Harris
>Department of TV, Film and Photography
>Gallaudet University

>pjharris@galluj.gallaudet.edu

I am also not meaning to start an argument here, but I have to offer a caveat
to the caveat.  We have had the SAME problems in terms of mechanical performance
with the Sony Betacam SP line.  Basically the transport of the BVW-75 would not
track the SP tapes properly.; secondly, the BCW-75 would rip the tape from its
spindles on a rewind cycle; a third unit from Sony ATE a SP tape upon eject!

In regards to video quality, I have had nothing but excellent results from M-II.
I have several clients who have tapes in which the whites clipped gracefully...
and few artifacts.  Since we also have Type C 1" machines in our facility, I 
can say that the M-II visual quality compares very closely with the high-end
format. 

(Incidentally, the ONE BVW-75 we have here is functioning perfectly for client
dubs :-) )

I think the issue here is NOT overall product quality, but rather the quality
control during the MANUFACTURING PROCESS of each product.  Yes, I have had
several Sony DXC-3000A's crap out on me or had bad pixels and other misc.
parts; Panasonic is no exception either.  But I can safely say that both of 
these Japanese manufacturing giants can and should improve their QC before the
units leave the factory. 

One of the areas in which a company such as Sony or Panasonic can cut costs is
Quality Control (I can safely say this because I have good rapport with techs
and sales reps from Sony and Panasonic). Sony seems to have a more consistent 
VTR line in terms of QC than Panasonic, that I agree.  But the caveat here is
Sony's 2800SP line in which the decks have dramatically lowered in price... 
instead of having humans evaluate each decks performance at each station, the
components are calibrated and set at established settings based upon engineering
stats :-( 

The bottom line here is that there is always a caveat to a 
caveat to a caveat when it comes to dealing with professional/industrial 
products.  These products enjoy high profit margins and I think because their
is NO U.S> competition, we are stuck with them and their quality problems and
even though Panasonic or Sony may have some shitty products we can do nothing
about it but bring them to a local authorized service center and whine.

This situation should have blown up a long time ago.  The only reason why 
nobody sees QC issues discussed much in those "free" industry publications
such as "Broadcast Engineering," "Video Systems" and "Videography" is because
Sony and Panasonic sink huge amount of dough in terms of advertising revs into
each publication's coffers each month and woe is the foe with the whistleblow.


When considering either Sony or Panasonic, be prepared to deal with product-to
-product quality differences due to manufacturing technique.  Just make sure
the warranty does not expire before flaws are repaired; and make sure the 
place from which the product is purchased has a competent service department and
not a bunch of self-glorifying-holier-than-though-idiots such as we have here
in a couple of places in San Diego. 

Therefore: We should NOT make sweeping generalizations such as "Stay Away from
M-II" or "Stay Away From Betacam" (of which I am guilty I admit but I apologize)
but rather we should evaluate each product according to our specific needs and
FREELY DISCUSS problems we've had with each product and offer workarounds or
ALTERNATE choices. 

Greg Penetrante
 GP&Associates, San Diego (A busy, overworked video production co.) :-)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production