HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aa@iti.org (Aayush Asthana)
Subject: Re: Prodigy stumbles -- reproduced with permission
Organization: Industrial Technology Institute
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:29:41 GMT

rubin@watson.ibm.com (Bill Rubin) writes:

>In <aa.727724970@hela.iti.org> aa@iti.org (Aayush Asthana) writes:
>>Just thought this would be of interest to this group; what follows
>>is an article posted on: comp.org.eff.news 
>>                    on: Wed, 23 Oct 1991 23:10:02 GMT
>>                     by: rita@eff.org (Rita Marie Rouvalis) 
>>who has permitted this : 
>>                        PRODIGY STUMBLES AS A FORUM ... AGAIN
>>                        By Mike Godwin
>>to be posted with proper source attribution.

>Wow, this is really great, year and a half old opinion being posted as new.  
>Given that the Prodigy BBS's are much more open now than they were when any 
>of the articles you just posted were written, what benefit was there to 
>wasting the net's bandwidth with them?  

>I repeat what has been said before.  If you don't like Prodigy, don't use 
>it.  But don't waste everyone's time repeating the same thing over and over 
>again.  

>-- Bill rubin@watson.ibm.com


Point taken;  because the article was current I did not check it's
original date; nevertheless a bit of history.

Sorry about the bandwidth though.

[] Regards,                                              _  _______  _ 
Aayush Asthana|Tech. Transfer & |Industrial Technology  [_][_     _][_]
-- aa@iti.org |Commercialization| Institute,           [~~~] [   ] [~~~]
     *Disclaimer: Standard*     | Ann Arbor, MI 48103  [___] [___] [___] 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.legal
From: Eric De Mund <ead@netcom.com>
Subject: refused store charge card when i declined to provide ssn
X-Reply-To: Eric De Mund <ead@netcom.com>
Reply-To: Eric De Mund <ead@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom Online Communication Services
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:07:47 GMT

misc.consumers, misc.legal people,

at robinson's of santa barbara, i was offered a store charge card and a
10% discount on my purchase. the register clerk made this offer when i
was about to pay with my mc. all he needed to see were my ca driver's
license and a major credit card. oh, and halfway through the
application, my ssn.

i politely refused, and he informed me that the credit bureau/reporting
agency that he was about to call (*) would unconditionally deny my
application without an ssn. i decided to purchase the items with my mc
and skip the 10% discount.

after re-reading the ssn-privacy faq's "lenders and borrowers" section,
in which it states:

     Banks and credit card issuers and various others are required by the
     IRS to report the SSNs of account holders to whom they pay interest
     or when they charge interest and report it to the IRS.

i wondered whether store charge card issuers also fell under this
rubric. i don't recall being asked for my ssn as part of the application
for my mervyn's card. is such a practice legal (especially in
conjunction with a 10% discount)?

eric de mund <ead@netcom.com>

(*) or whomever he was about to call for an immediate answer to the
question, "should we offer this guy a card?"
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From:  wrf@ecse.rpi.edu (Wm Randolph Franklin)
Subject: Re: KMart's policy if items scan at the wrong price.
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:13:36 GMT


In article <1jlsp6INNhc@shelley.u.washington.edu> on 21 Jan 1993 10:09:42 GMT,
tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:

  >  $1.77
  > -$1.42
  > ------
  >  $0.35
  > 
  > I'd be very curious to hear under what theory you claim that $0.35 is not
  > sufficient restitution.

Here's an analogy.  Suppose I applied a bar code sticker for another
item with a price of $1.42-$.35=$1.07 to that product.  If Kmart caught
me, they might not think that an offer of $.35 was sufficient
restitution.  In fact, they might detain me in the office and not allow
me to leave.  They then might make me sign an admission that I was a
thief, on the threat of laying a criminal charge.  Then they might bring
a civil suit against me for $100 damages.

This is all legal in many states.    

Kmart is committing a crime here since they made on offer, on the shelf,
and I accepted it, by taking the item to the cashier.  That makes a
contract.  Then they try to charge more and hope I don't notice it.

If someone steals something from me, I'm not satisfied by the article's
return.  I want the thief punished.  This is especially needed in crimes
like this to deter others.

Here's another analogy.  Suppose a bank gives me too much money, e.g.,
from an ATM.  I keep the money.  Let's say that it's a lot.  Is the bank
satisfied with my giving the money back when they finally trace me?  No!
They may lay criminal charges.  This has happened to people.





-- 
---------------------
Wm. Randolph Franklin,  wrf@ecse.rpi.edu, (518) 276-6077;  Fax: -6261
ECSE Dept., 6026 JEC, Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst, Troy NY, 12180 USA
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Help!    (stolen wallet troubles)
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:33:04 GMT

>Burdines (a Fla dept store chain) once asked me to sign an unsigned
>credit card (I did).  When I subsequently (ams purchase!) noticed the 
>clerk very carefully comparing my new signature on the card with that on
>the reciept I remarked "of course they match".  She then politely explained
>that they have to verify signatures on each transaction because they
>had a lot of fraud.

And a relative of mine who had moved to Florida was also asked to sign
a blank credit card before signing the receipt.  After she did, the
clerk refused to complete the transaction claiming that the signatures
didn't match.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: Dmerrill@bnr.ca (Dana Merrill)
Subject: Mail Order Coffee
Followup-To: misc.consumers
Organization: BNR
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:33:05 GMT

In response to numerous requests I am posting the info. on the mail order
coffee that I mentioned in an earlier post (Gevalia thread).

Nicholas Coffee Co.
23 Market Place
Pittsburgh, Pa 15222
412-261-4225
800-621-4225

I generally get together a group order with my co-workers to keep the
shipping costs down.  Generally runs around $0.35 per pound.  You can buy
in 1/2 pound increments which allows you to sample.  Takes about 2 days (if
I order in the morning) UPS to me in central NC.  Most coffee is $4-$5
except for the exotic ones of course (Blue Mountain is $19.99 - still a
good deal for Blue Mountain!).

Call and ask for their brochure.  I have no connection with Nicholas and
would like to hear of other sources, so, if you have one, please post for
all - there is a lot of interest.

dam  



==================================================================

Dana Merrill                                Bell Northern Research
DMerrill@BNR.CA                         Research Triangle Park, NC
==================================================================
From: egreen@East.Sun.COM (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Insurance question
Date: 22 Jan 1993 17:20:25 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: egreen@East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article wfLKkAK00WBOI22X1A@andrew.cmu.edu, dg10+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Goldreich) writes:
>
>A friend of mine will be taking out auto insurance soon.  In the past
>he has gotten a couple of speeding tickets.  He is planning on 
>"forgetting" about the tickets when the insurance company asks.  
>(I don't believe he has any points or any other easy way for the
>insurance company to find out.)

They routinely do a survey of DMV records.  If your friend paid the
tickets, they are on his record, and the insurance co. will find them.

>If he were to get into a serious accident and the insurance company
>investigates and finds out he lied on the application, will the
>insurance pay for the accident? 

They could void the insurance and not pay the claim.  He could probably
sue to force them to pay it.  Read the fine print above the signature
line on the application.  It constitutes a legally binding contract in
which you testify that to the best of your knowledge, all information
on the form is true and accurate.  Lying, then signing, is illegal.

>Suppose someone takes out life insurance and "forgets" that he has
>cancer or AIDS.  The insurance company can't be liable in such a case,
>can it?

That's why they require blood tests.

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...

Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Stores can't "detain" shoplifters
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 06:04:13 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

niebuhr@bnlux1.bnl.gov (david niebuhr) writes:

>Last October, I took my wife on a shopping spree for her birthday.  We
>went to several malls and in one of them the Disney Store (looking for
>a gift for our newborn granddaughter) had a scanner go off as we
>entered.

>We were confronted by the store personnel and had to take out all of the
>merchandise in the bags we were carrying from the other stores in the
>mall and produce receipts.  After a few minutes, we convinced them we
>were'nt thieves since several people came into the store and without 
>shopping bags and the beeper went off.

My HP95 I carry in my pocket sets these things off every so often.  
My way of dealing with the goon squad is to pretend like I cannot
hear them.  I neither look at nor otherwise acknowledge them.
They practically EXPLODE!  After all, we ARE talking about lowlife cop
wannabes in most cases who couldn't cut it as real cops.  I'm still
waiting for one of 'em to actually touch me :-)

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: john@zygot.ati.com (John Higdon)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Stores can't "detain" shoplifters
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:37:36 GMT
Organization: Green Hills and Cows

In article <a2as!rj@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:

>My HP95 I carry in my pocket sets these things off every so often.  
>My way of dealing with the goon squad is to pretend like I cannot
>hear them.

Fry's Electronics in the SF Bay Area has a sign by the entrance that
states that all "electronic merchandise" must be checked before
entering the store. Since I use a motorcycle as primary
transportation, I carry a fanny-pack that contains my HP48SX and my
Motorola MicroTac. I routinely carry this pack on into the store
(ignoring the very silly sign) since I frequently have need of both the
calculator (for last minute design changes) and the cellular phone (for
consultations) when on the sales floor.

On a number of occasions, I have been accosted upon entry by people who
want to search my fanny-pack. When they discover the electronic items,
I am instructed to leave them. I offer them a choice: I keep them and
shop or I turn around and walk out. At that point I am given a slip of
paper that lists the items to "show upon exit". On one occasion, I was
stopped at the exit for "fanny-pack search" and my items were
discovered--and I did not have any "papers". A small scene erupted
where I was all but accused of stealing the items.

"We need to see receipts for the cellular phone and the calculator." My
reply: "You need to accuse me of stealing these items of personal
property or get out of my face. Now!" A short mini-conference of
security wannabees was held, and it was decided that I would be let go
with a stern "warning".

A number of us have written to Fry's about this stupid policy (not to
mention the press the store received on the net) and things seemed to
be a little more relaxed. After all, it is not outrageous that people
from the Silicon Valley would carry personal electronic items into a
store. Any business that treats its customers like criminals deserves to
go out of business.

-- 
 John Higdon  |   P. O. Box 7648   |   +1 408 264 4115     |       FAX:
 john@ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | 10288 0 700 FOR-A-MOO | +1 408 264 4407
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Discover Card - Pffffft!
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 23:51:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac

In article <JDAVIDSO.93Jan22112307@tigger.teknowledge.com> jdavidso@teknowledge.com (Jim Davidson) writes:

>Let's look at the three ways that card companies make money: (a) annual fees;
>(b) interest payments; (c) the percentage of every charge that they take from
>the merchant.  Cards that have no annual fees are dependent on the latter two
>sources.  Small account just don't generate much money either way.

They also make money by holding a merchant's deposit until asked to during
shift-change. Let me illustrate:

1. A convenience store chain installs card swipers which are connected to a
given bank.

2. Purchases are authorized within 30 seconds, as that's how often the
bank's modem polls the device.  

Assume that a management shift change occurs daily at 05:30 hours. When the
manager logs in to the card-swiper/terminal, it spits out the daily sales
reports from the previous management shift change, i.e. 8 to 16 hours in the
past. During that 16-hr period, it's concevable that gas, cigarette, and
munchie sales will generate $1000 or more in credit card purchases. 

Assume that the bank debits the card-holder's account immediately, and
therefore has use of the funds for up to 16 hours, before the merchant runs
his report, which _automatically_ "makes" the deposit. The machine then
responds "AMOUNT CREDITED TO YOUR ACCOUNT."

Multiply that one convenience store by tens of thousands, all using
card-swipers, and ask yourself how much money the bank gets to play with for
nothing, then multiply it by anywhere from 8 to 16 hours.

I suspect many millions are quietly diverted this way, with no-one giving it
much thought. (It didn't occur to me until I went to work for one of these
stores, and watched the mgr. go through his routine.)

Comments?


-- 
The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT 
 Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Just south of Tupperware Central...  
                 Information is power - get connected
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: btwomey@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (William J. Twomey)
Subject: Re: Help!    (stolen wallet troubles)
Organization: Attack Tribble Training
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:59:17 GMT

In article <C1FI09.G17@vcd.hp.com> johne@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (John Eaton) writes:
>Ajay Shah (ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu) wrote:
>: In March last year my wallet was stolen.  It contained many credit
>: cards (all of which I dealt with by calling the companies) and a
>: drivers license.

Ajay should have reported the loss to every one that issued
him something, and the police.

>Local paper has a similiar story of a man who lost his wallet. The person
>who found (or stole) it later broke into his house and swiped his checkbook.
>He then went dowm to DMV with all the ID (minus Drivers License) and requested
>a duplicate license. DMV now gives the thief a brand new license with the
>thiefs picture on it. (at least they know what the guy looks like). He has
>since run up about 40K$ in bad checks.

My in-laws related the troubles of a neighbor who lost her purse.
It contained her driver's license and check book.  She put stop
orders on that series of checks.  Someone used the driver's
license and other ID to get NEW CHECKS FROM HER BANK.  The thief
promptly started laying rubber, and is probably continuing to do
so.  The only reason she found out was that she got billed for the new
checks.  I'm sure the thief can get credit cards too.  Just use
the address as an old address, and a PO box as the current mailing
address.

>Most people worry that if their wallet is stolen that the thief will use
>their credit cards. Their biggest worry should be that the thief will use
>their idendity. If they use your cards to buy something then they will get
>caught, but they can use your ID to open up new accounts. 

Note that the neighbor had a non-photo driver's license.  A photo
license, which she has the option of getting here in NJ, would
have helped her.  The only thing that the neighbor can do
now is file a complaint with the police everywhere, everytime
fraud is done with her name.  Ajay, this might help you.

Bill Twomey
-- 
bt@violin.att.com
908 615 4162
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Subject: Car Phone Experiences Wanted
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:01:01 GMT

My wife has decided that she needs a car phone, but we have no idea what
to look for or why. If you've gone through this recently, would you
share your experiences?

Thanks.
From: daw@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Dave Webb)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: NES with 19 games.. Available Again
Date: 25 Jan 1993 12:58:00 -0500
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu

Nintendo Entertainmen System with 19 games, 2 controllers, Nintendo Power Mags,
Tip Books... STILL FOR SALE!

Due to several deals falling through, my NES is available again.  I would still
like to get the best offer over $170.00...

Again, I have the following games available:
Mario Bros, Super Mario Bros, Ninja Gaiden, Ninja Gaiden II, Tennis, Kung Fu,
Baseball, Castlevania, Castlevania III, Top Gun, Excitebike, Platoon, Magic
Johnson's Fastbreak Basketball, Goonies II, X-Men, 10-Yard Fight, John Elway's
Quarterback, RBI Baseball, Jeopardy.

If you are interested, Please leave me some e-mail.. I'm sure we could 
work something out.

		Thanx again.. in advance,
		
			Dave Webb
  
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,soc.culture.usa,misc.misc
From: robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob)
Subject: Re: Speeding ticket in OKlahoma --- what's SP8?
Organization: a gora
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:50:38 GMT

In article <ANDRE.93Jan19160926@king.slc.mentorg.com> andre@king.slc.mentorg.com (Andre' Hut) writes:
>Remind me never to visit PA either.  These Eastern states with their political might, 
>just don't seem to understand that there are hundreds of miles between major 
>cities out west, and the interstates are mostly vacant, hence the majority of
>drivers just outright ignore the law.  Other states like Montana, will pull you over,
>apologise for pulling you over, ask you for 5 bucks, apologise again, and explain that
>your 90 miles an hour in the 55 will not appear on your record, then give you a
>receipt for your 5 bucks, and send you on your way. (Don't try this at night though).


  Actually, I-80 across Pennsylvania rivals many western highways
for wide-openness and lack of major towns along the way.  Of course,
this makes the 300 miles or so of constant 55 MPH speed limits
all the more ridiculous.
From: ottoh3@cfsmo.honeywell.com (Otto Heuer #3)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Phone number to find blubook value of used cars?
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:31:48 GMT
Organization: Hack-Man's Hangout
Posted-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 15:31:48 CST
Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 15:30:21 CST
To: misc.consumers
X-Disclaimer: I speak for me and not my boss; Honeywell's gain & Usenet's loss
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]


Anyone have one of the "1-800" numbers that you can call to find out
current bluebook values for used cars?

I think one of my credit cards gave me one of the numbers that has 
all that kind of info, but I don't remember which card it was and 
I don't thik I wrote down what the number they gave me was.  

If anyone could send me one of the "1-800" numbers, I'd appreciate it.

Send to an5138@anon.penet.fi

Thanks bunches!
Xref: sparky misc.consumers:22497 soc.culture.usa:10060 misc.misc:4458
From: joel@upchrch.UUCP (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,soc.culture.usa,misc.misc
Subject: Re: Speeding ticket in OKlahoma --- what's SP8?
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 19:27:15 EST
Distribution: misc.consumers
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

arup+@cs.cmu.edu (Arup Mukherjee) writes:

> True, but it's also perpetually under construction  ... ("Welcome to
> PA... Single lane most of the next 300 miles" :-) and liberally
> sprinkled with craters. I doubt that PA has any plans to remedy this,
> since it forces more people to take the PA Turnpike which is, mile for
> mile, possibly the most expensive toll road in the US. [Does anyone
> have a counterexample? The insane bridge tolls into New York City
> don't count...]

I don't know how much the PA Turnpike costs but the Beeline Expressway
and the East-West Expressway in Orlando costs over 10 cents a mile
easy. I seem to recall that the Orlando Sentinel said that they were
some of the most expensive toll roads in the country. They also caught
them trying to stop through traffic on a surface street (Dean Road?)
to force people onto the East-West.

(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982