HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: strake@coos.dartmouth.edu (strake)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Cyberspace dreams?
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:19:10 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy) writes:

>|
>|  If you could experience ANYTHING in cyberspace, what are some of the things
>|that would be fun to do?  What would be lame?
>|_____________________________________________________________________________

>In all your above examples, you listed things that can be done in this
>"reality" or that can be imagined in your mind.  Why?

>I would prefer to let the ai I'm assuming will be available to expand upon its
>own library and present something that is completely taken out of any human
>experience.  Thus, I couldn't give you an example because that would be within
>the realm of my own imagination, which doesn't count.

>Teledildonics, games, or anything even remotely real ("gee, it'd be cool if we
>projected ourselves as brainwaves in a virtual environemtn in another
>dimension") is for shit because it can be imagined. 

>I want to experience the unimaginable. 

Well, I'm from the other side of the board, I would want to experience the
impossible.  I would like to take on the persona of a bullet and be fired by
a rifle, and just try to take in that amazing sense of speed. I would want to
grow wings, and know what it felt like to fly. I want to look at the world from
a height of 1 mm.  Yes, I would like to experience the unimaginable as well.
However first, there are a thousand impossible things I want to experience
first.


--
   _____________________                 strake@dartmouth.edu
  /  __/_ __  __     __  | "And finally, to these two who are about to wed,
 `--, /  /_/ /_/ /, /_   |  may he always have the last two words in any
 __/ /  / \ / / /\ /_    |  argument -- 'Yes dear'.  - Best Man's speech
From: tolman%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kenneth Tolman)
Subject: Cyberspace dreams?
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:41:55 MDT
Organization: University of Utah, CompSci Dept
Distribution: alt

  It is the year 2015, and cyberspace is up and running.  The software
packages are written to your specifications, and you can "actually"
experience any concievable time/place/existence which you like.  Thus, you
may choose to spend your time hopping across virtual planets fighting aliens,
travelling with friends in the latest "Enterprise", or exploring the jungles
of the Paleozoic with a virtual bombshell cave woman named "Rak".


  If you could experience ANYTHING in cyberspace, what are some of the things
that would be fun to do?  What would be lame?
From: shawnr@nucleus.cuc.ab.ca (Shawn Richards)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Cyberspace Dreams
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:47:50 MST
Organization: The Nucleus 16 Lines 403-531-9353 -CNet Amiga-

From my personal understanding of VR, it's not YOU that does the imagining, the
computer set's up the reality for you, and sends messages to your brain... so
logically... all it takes, is a program... ie all the things you said could be
programmed, and i'm sure, in the latter years, when VR is VERY widespread, as
it probably will be, they will have VR programming kits, so stupid people can
program their own virtual realities easilly, and make they're fantasies come
true.  But basically, YOUR not the one imagining the situation, your just being
giving a situation to your brain, and you think it's real, that's what virtual
reality is supposed to be.  Virtual because it can be ANYTHING, and Reality,
because it's NOT your imagination, it's really happening, you feel everything
going on, and you can react to your environment.
 
But enough of my babbling... if you want to see a really good movie for VR,
then check out  "Lawmmower Man"  it's a really good movie.
 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy)
Subject: Re: Cyberspace dreams?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Reply-To: ahawks@nyx.UUCP (andy)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: alt
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 04:34:20 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.154155.16327@hellgate.utah.edu> tolman%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kenneth Tolman) writes:

|  It is the year 2015, and cyberspace is up and running.  The software
|packages are written to your specifications, and you can "actually"
|experience any concievable time/place/existence which you like.  Thus, you
|may choose to spend your time hopping across virtual planets fighting aliens,
|travelling with friends in the latest "Enterprise", or exploring the jungles
|of the Paleozoic with a virtual bombshell cave woman named "Rak".
|
|  If you could experience ANYTHING in cyberspace, what are some of the things
|that would be fun to do?  What would be lame?
|_____________________________________________________________________________

In all your above examples, you listed things that can be done in this
"reality" or that can be imagined in your mind.  Why?

I would prefer to let the ai I'm assuming will be available to expand upon its
own library and present something that is completely taken out of any human
experience.  Thus, I couldn't give you an example because that would be within
the realm of my own imagination, which doesn't count.

Teledildonics, games, or anything even remotely real ("gee, it'd be cool if we
projected ourselves as brainwaves in a virtual environemtn in another
dimension") is for shit because it can be imagined. 

I want to experience the unimaginable. 

 ___________________________________________________________________________
|                                        |                                  |
| hawkeye (andy) :: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu |   Future Culture Mailing List!   |
|________________________________________|     Tomorrow's Reality Today     |
|                                        | cyberpunk, virtual reality, rave |
|  The Kracker Box BBS :: 303.438.1481   | computer underground, industrial |
|  120 megs...vt 100 reqd...14.4k baud   | [ future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu ] |
|________________________________________|__________________________________|

Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: bwebber@nmsu.edu (Bill Webber)
Subject: Re: Cyberspace dreams?
Organization: NMSU Astronomy
Distribution: alt
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:39:11 GMT

	Lets not turn this into alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo, which is all it is, read it and see for yourself.

			K.MacaArthur  (not bwebber)

Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy)
Subject: Re: Cyberspace dreams?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Reply-To: ahawks@nyx.UUCP (andy)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: alt
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 21:08:47 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.144624.2424@hellgate.utah.edu> tolman%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kenneth Tolman) writes:
|
|>In all your above examples, you listed things that can be done in this
|>"reality" or that can be imagined in your mind.  Why?
|>
|>I want to experience the unimaginable. 
|
|NO experience will be synthesizable unless it has been imagined.  If you put
|together 
|parts of other peoples imagination- it still was of their imagination.  You
|WILL 
|be able to experience the (human) unimaginable once they get nondeterministic
|algorithms 
|for construction, but not until then.  Computers can't do magic- and today
|can't 
|even imagine on their own.
|
|WHATEVER experience you find will have been imagined- by either a human who
|programmed 
|it- or the computer which imagined it nondeterministically.  Your statement is
|meaningless, "I want to experience the unimaginable"
|_____________________________________________________________________________

By "unimaginable" all I meant is by the human imagination.  I didn't include
artifical intelligence imagination in that.  Maybe I shoul've said "I want to
experience something beyond the capabilities of the human imagination".

(BTW - could you keep your lines to 80 columns?  Thanx in advance)
 ___________________________________________________________________________
|                                        |                                  |
| hawkeye (andy) :: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu |   Future Culture Mailing List!   |
|________________________________________|     Tomorrow's Reality Today     |
|                                        | cyberpunk, virtual reality, rave |
|  The Kracker Box BBS :: 303.438.1481   | computer underground, industrial |
|  120 megs...vt 100 reqd...14.4k baud   | [ future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu ] |
|________________________________________|__________________________________|

Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: chmilar@Apple.COM (Michael Chmilar)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Problem with Laws in Cyberspace
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:11:28 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

jeh@taronga.com (James Casey Henderson) writes:

>For example, the e-mail privacy situation would not have been so difficult
>if the e-mail policy which has evolved would have been exactly like the
>postal-system's policy; thus, nobody (not even system operators) except
>the sender(s) and recipient(s) of the e-mail would be permitted to access
>(view/read) it.
> 
> [ stuff about using physical partitions with password protection, sysops
>   needing warrants to read your e-mail, constitutional changes to
>   protect e-mail, etc. ]
> 
>our SOFTWARE and HARDWARE implementations of this electronic
>community/environment/society/frontier must undergo some EXTREME
>CHANGES!!!  But sometimes the government (including Secret Service)
>isn't too hot on change...

The people get the government that they deserve, and this includes the
"secret service".  You don't like it?  Well, you are a voting member of
a democracy, so make some changes.

The people, it seems to me, are just as cold to change as the government,
maybe more so.  This is especially true when it affects their pocketbook,
and massive changes to all operating systems, networks, and hardware
would be very, very expensive.  Mind-bogglingly expensive.

On any current computer system, any security is implemented ultimately by
the operating system, and thereby enforced by software which 1) can always
be broken and 2) requires a class of "privileged" users.  Your e-mail can
never be completely "safe".  Then again, who is to say that the NSA, FBI,
or whoever does not have ways of reading your U.S. Mail, if they really
want to.

One safety factor you have on your side is the sheer volume of e-mail on
the internet.  If someone is reading your mail, it is either because 1) they
are out to get you (in which case you are fucked eight ways to hell, no
matter what you do ;-) ) or 2) they are scanning on key words and phrases.
(Who "they" are, and why they are concerned with you or me is a matter for
paranoids and conspiracy theorists to decide.)  All of the sysops that I
have known who were running large systems had better things to do than
monitor mail.

The security of your e-mail is your responsibility.  Encrypt your mail, if
you really don't want anyone else to read it.  Government and business don't
send sensitive materials via the U.S. mail, and they will encrypt e-mail
or other electronic transmissions.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: tolman%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kenneth Tolman)
Subject: Invasion of privacy
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:28:02 MDT
Organization: University of Utah, CompSci Dept
Distribution: alt

  What is the problem with invasion of privacy?

  Someone pointed out that there really is no problem, as long as the one with
the power is benevolent.  I am inclined to agree, but disagree that such a
system will maintain itself.  As soon as a nonbenevolent person got into
the role of power, they would wield the power to maintain their position.
Thus, a "benevolent leadership" will necessarily collapse.

  If you read "True Names" by Vernon Vinge, you will see a possible solution
to the problem: have a benevolent being take the reigns of power who will
never go away.  This could be a computer system, or a benevolent person.

  However, it seems that there is no assurance that anyone or thing will act
benevolently, and thus their total access to your information would
destroy you.  This is why privacy is so important.

  Notice that, if you yourself are in no position of power, influence, and
have no effect on society than no one will want to hunt you down- you will
oppose no one.  However, if you retain the right to vote, to speak, or
merely act, then you oppose someone at some time, and their capacity to
take advantage of your information will destroy you.  Thus, it is essential
that we protect individual privacy.  

Mechanisms of information leverage:  How  can someone use mere information to
  hurt you?

Blackmail: If a person has access to see your screen at all times, then they
will see every interaction that you do on it.  If they see you in person
at all times, they will see everything you do.  Any person wishing for you
to do some trivial task will have the power to blackmail you for whatever
they want- if they know all you do.  That is, unless you do absolutely
nothing wrong.  But even if you do nothing wrong, you may wish to keep some
information away from others (such as what presents you have bought)  Thus,
an informed (illegally in my system) person will be able to get you to do
whatever they wish- providing that the action is less costly than the act
of information being revealed.



Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: dstalder@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Darren Stalder)
Subject:  Re: Problem with Laws in Cyberspace
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:32:29 GMT

On 22 Jul 92 11:46 MDT, Kenneth Tolman (tolman%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu)
spoke onto the world and said:
>>If someone is reading your mail, it is either because 1) they
>>are out to get you (in which case you are fucked eight ways to hell, no
>>matter what you do ;-) )
>
>This should not be the case!  One should be able to have certain liberties
>in a free civilized society.

Note the should and not isn't.  Yes, it should not be the case.  We
should get actual representation rather than having to fight against
lobbyists and special interests.  We should have real candidates to vote
for in elections.  This is all ivory tower stuff.  It isn't real.
Anyone who expects those shoulds to just naturally be the case is a fool
but anyone that doesn't fight to fix them is an even greater fool.
--
Security	Torin/Darren Stalder/Wolf
   or	   __   Internet: dstalder@gmuvax.gmu.edu
 Freewill. \/   Bitnet:   dstalder@gmuvax
  Choose.	ATTnet:   1-703-845-1000
                Snail:    10310 Main St., Suite 110/Fairfax, VA/22030/USA
DISCLAIMER: A society where such disclaimers are needed is saddening.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: smbelcas@med.umich.edu (Sarah Marie Belcastro)
Subject: Re: Problem with Laws in Cyberspace
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 15:21:21 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan, Mathematics Department, Ann Arbor
Originator: smbelcas@jameson.math.lsa.umich.edu


I don't think anyone has said this yet (sorry if i'm wrong):

There is a fairly simple (though it seems in reality difficult to achieve)
solution to the paradox of "the system needs sysops, but we want privacy."
Have responsible sysops!!  If you are the only one who can access your mail,
and you have a problem in accessing it, then the sysop can't help.  But you
should be able to _trust_ your sysop not to read your mail.  I find it 
unfortunate that many of the people with the privileges to read mail abuse
these privileges; i used to be a sysop, and i felt that it was my moral
obligation to not use the powers i had!!  
Of course, i don't know of any way of assuring responsible privileged users
other than doing  character checks when hiring them, but....

					--sarah marie.
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: palmaa@phil.indiana.edu (Adriano Palma)
Subject: between July 31st/92 and August 20 1992
Originator: daemon@eff.org
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:19:49 GMT

I SHALL BE OUT OF THE COUNTRY (FRANCE, THAT IS)
ANOFF THE NETWORKS. YOUR MAIL REGARDING
Computers and Academic Freedom mailing list (batch edition)
WILL BE STORED HERE, READ AND ANSWERED WHEN I AM BACK;

adriano



p.s. to all C.R.E.A. people, you should send anything administrative to crea@poly.polytechnique.fr
I shall answer you when I come back.
to all others... have just a bit of patience. 
to everybody have a good summer.


adriano
From: emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: Re: putting lyrics to "Cop Killer" in .plan file
Date: 21 Jul 1992 20:12:23 -0400
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: nigel.msen.com
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz) writes:
: 
: "finger" is the public directory service provided by this site. Users
: should be able to use finger without getting any sort of shock. On my
: site, I would ask you to replace that quote with a pointer to a
: publicly readable file, if you want to distribute a potentially
: offensive message. That way, you are free to say whatever you like,
: and users are free to CHOOSE to hear it or not.

Many sites run a campus-wide public directory service that's owned and
operated (and controlled by) the computing center with data supplied
by e.g. the registrar's office or the people who put out the campus
paper phone book.  In most cases individuals have very little to say
about how they are listed in this directory, except perhaps maybe for
getting their name spelled right or not including home phone numbers.

One popluar pice of software that does this is the "CSO Name Server".
You can find more information about it in
	rtfm.mit.edu:/pub/usenet/alt.gopher/*
since the gopher clients can look at these systems.

The whole question of what services a user without any special priveleges
is allowed to provide to the rest of the internet is a tough one.
Consider that e.g. an unprivelged user can run a WAIS server, a gopher
server, and thus allow some amount of access to whatever files are on
the system (good, bad, useful or "obscene").  The finger .plan file
is a very small piece of what all else people might do if they were
sufficiently motivated and skillful.

--Ed
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: Re: putting lyrics to "Cop Killer" in .plan file
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:56:25 GMT
	<JBW.92Jul17231548@bigbird.bu.edu> <1992Jul21.142535.21786@digibd.com>
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: merlyn@digibd.com's message of Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:25:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.142535.21786@digibd.com> merlyn@digibd.com (Merlyn LeRoy) writes:


>If other students have humorous or otherwise irrelevant text in their
>.plan files and have not been told to remove them, then you should document
>this (print out a session where you get the time & date, and finger
>a bunch of other students).  This would show that the university is
>telling you, and only you, to remove your .plan based on the content,
>and not on disk space, or using .plan for what it is intended (does
>anyone use .plan for what it is intended?)  That would clearly make it a
>first amendment case, and the U would almost certainly lose.

I still don't see why. What's unconstitutional about our policy of 
setting an obsenity standard, for example? Our policy is that all
finger info and public X-terminal screens should be of roughly PG-13
offensiveness or less. We ask users to remove obscene or blatantly
sexual .plan files. For example, last week a user had an "ansi art"
.plan which repeatedly blasted a four-letter word acrss the screen.
Prior to him, another user was asked to remove a crude sexual
limerick. Both users complied without complaint... I don't think they
really felt that strongly about it. I get complaints from professors
when we allow these to remain. 
   It seems to me that we are applying  acommon "community standard"
to this material.  
--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               BITNET:ESCHWARTZ%UMBSKY.DNET@NS.UMB.EDU
100 Morrissy Blvd                     Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: [alt.censorship]  Penn State CENSORS my usenet!
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:11:51 GMT
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Originator: kadie@eff.org


Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:59:56 EDT
From: The Velcro-Man! <DED110@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
Subject:  Penn State CENSORS my usenet!

     The admin's refuse to carry gropus that they don't want to.  Simple as
that.  Not only will they not carry such disk-hogs as alt.binaries.erotica
etc. but will not even carry alt.flame.abortion!  Why?  Because they say so!
Well I for one am not taking this crap.  I am embarking on the uncharted and
perilous journey (dramatic pause) of gaining complete access!!!  Well, not
quite.  I *am* trying other ways to read and post to the.net.  For example:
some kind individuals shared with me method of posting to both alt.sex and
alt.sex.bondage via 2 daemons at other universities.  Not exactly fabulous
knowledge, but progress nonetheless.  I am continuing to ask netters for all
the info they can give me in the hopes that I will be able to publish a
sumary of these techniques for general consumption.  I am told by friends at
vasrious other sites that Penn State is not the only offender, and is even
more liberal than some!  So, I now throw down the gauntlet and ask any and
all of you netters out there to follow me to the fray!  Well, you don't really
have to do that, but it would be nice if you could drop me some E-mail telling
me any neat little techniques and tidbits you've learned about the usenet
concerning reading, posting, FTP'ing, telnetting, etc. as long as it's in some
way relevant to the issue at hand.  I'm not asking for hints on how to hack
into NASA's supercomputers, or anything, just info you may have happened upon.
I'll try to neatly compile the responses and post them, and maybe set up an
FTP site for those w/o any usenet access.  Thanx in advance; let's get 'em!

  "Velcro is your friend!"  Ask me why!


Dan D'Ambrosio, President J.R.C.
Box 722 Behrend College          Available only at
Erie, PA                         DED110@PSUVM  or
  16563                          DED110@psuvm.psu.edu and fine stores....
Home: (814) 587-3080
J.R.C. Office: (814) 898-6297  (Call collect, Penn State's paying!)
-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent EFF; this is just me.
 =kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: [alt.censorship]  Re: Penn State CENSORS my usenet!
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:12:14 GMT
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Originator: kadie@eff.org


Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From: john@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (John Blasik)
Subject:  Re: Penn State CENSORS my usenet!
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 05:14:30 GMT

The Velcro-Man! <DED110@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>more liberal than some!  So, I now throw down the gauntlet and ask any and
>all of you netters out there to follow me to the fray!  Well, you don't really
>have to do that, but it would be nice if you could drop me some E-mail telling
>me any neat little techniques and tidbits you've learned about the usenet
>concerning reading, posting, FTP'ing, telnetting, etc. as long as it's in some


Here's a simple 4 step method.

  i) purchase a computer
 ii) purchase a modem
iii) purchase (or acquire free) news software
 iv) purchase (or acquire a free) news feed

-- john
-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent EFF; this is just me.
 =kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk