HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: burgoyne@highlite.uucp (J. Robert Burgoyne)
Subject: Re: Feedback wanted on data service
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:32:52 GMT

ferguson@tc.fluke.COM (Ed Ferguson) writes:

: <stuff deleted>
: Now the question.  My written and electronic sources are
: copyrighted. However, I only need to collect data which is
: numerical, public information, and can be obtained from several
: sources.  So, how does one interpret copyright law?  For
: example, if one piece of my data report was the high & low
: temperature in Seattle last night, and I got those numbers
: from the Seattle Times or Prodigy, have I violated the law?
 
I just had a similar conversation with my friendly $200 and hour
intellectual property law attorney. Data is not protected by 
copyright, and a recent Supreme Court Decision (described later)
confirms this.

The presentation and arrangement of data IS protected by copyright
law. So you can't xerox something that someone else printed and 
resell it as your own. But you can "recast" it.

The recent Supreme Court case involved a company who used computer
equipment to scan in a phone book, converted it to meaningful data through
OCR, and resold the data in a different form. Believe it or not,
the company that did all this was cleared of any wrongdoing.

HOWEVER, presumably you're just a small weeny. So the big guys can
put you out of business just by threatening to litigate because you
won't be able to afford to fight them.

FURTHERMORE, the electronic data providers you may be considering
getting your data from have agreements with you where you agree not
to do what you propose to do. Although they may not litigate against
you, they can and probably will pull the plug on you if they find out
what you are doing.

SO, don't just take the word of non-attorneys like me. Go talk to an
intellectual property law attorney and shoot your proposition to him.

DON'T RELY ON THE NET OR ANY NON-ATTORNEY FOR COMPETENT LEGAL ADVICE!

Now write that three times.

Robert 
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: squint@viking.den.mmc.com (Kirk Blackburn)
Subject: Re: Anyone need a SECOND INCOME???
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:32:36 GMT


Sean:

---------
sales pitch deleted
_______________

Your message sounds a lot like an AMWAY tape a Medical Doctor
brought over to my house a while back.

Are you with AMWAY?


kirk
Xref: sparky misc.entrepreneurs:2390 misc.jobs.offered:9217
From: douglas@tinton.ccur.com (Steve Douglas <douglas>)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,misc.jobs.offered
Subject: RECRUITER
Date: 28 Jul 92 02:56:33 GMT
Distribution: nj
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp., Tinton Falls, NJ
Originator: douglas@bach.tinton.ccur.com

Have you ever said,"If only I had a chance"?
Well, here's an opportunity for a career which can offer you unlimited earning 
potential.

The leading division of a major New York Stock Exchange Company is expanding 
in the metropolitan area.

We are looking for-Serious, Ambitious, and Highly Motivated People.

We offer-High Income, Part-Time and Full-Time Positions.

We offer-Management Training for Those Without Experience.

We offer-Rapid Advancement for Experienced Managers, Professionals and Highly 
         Motivated Individuals.

As part of our expansion process, we will be conducting several career
open houses for those seeking - employment, additional income, or a career 
change.

You can learn more about this opportunity by attending a career open house.
  
If you qualify, you'll be a part of our in depth training program.  Through 
personal attention and constant support, you'll be given every opportunity to 
develop your ability to the fullest.

Quite simply, it's a special company for special people.  Now it's up to you.  
Call for your reservation today.  Karyn D. Madison/Exec Recruiter 908-548-7693

*We are an equal opportunity employer. 
------------------------- Disclaimer ------------------------------------
This is a borrowed account, (My Husband's) so please don't respond to
him via email.
From: ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Compact Disc Wholesalers
Date: 29 Jul 92 01:52:04 GMT
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto


I don't know if what I'm about to say has been raised in this 
discussion yet, but you all be pleased <sarcasm> to hear that CD's
cost less to manufacture than cassettes, yet they sell for more.
The Financial Times of Canada did a feature article on this a few
months ago.  Record companies are making a *killing* selling CD's

Edgar
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: lmiller@heineken.tuc.nrao.edu (Luther Miller)
Subject: Re: Compact Disc Wholesalers
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Tucson Az.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:03:53 GMT

In article <59297@mimsy.umd.edu> biow@cs.umd.edu (chris biow) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.215204.24547@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias) writes:
>
>>I don't know if what I'm about to say has been raised in this 
>>discussion yet, but you all be pleased <sarcasm> to hear that CD's
>>cost less to manufacture than cassettes, yet they sell for more.
>...
>But I would expect to see a category of second tier record companies
>selling a (percieved to be) lower quality product for much less.
>Yet I can't say that I've seen that.

I have-- in CD clubs such as BMG and Columbia House. With the BMG deal,
usually 8 CDs for the price of one plus shipping and handling, the
deal comes out to about $5 a CD. Columbia's deal is (I think) 10 for the
price of 6, plus shipping. Comes out to regular prices. Also, these
clubs manufacture "lower quality" CDs.. I can't tell the difference, but
you can't sell them for as much to used CD dealer. Also, these clubs
(especially BMG) sometimes have trouble picking the hottest new stuff.

>Anybody got a good explanation for why we haven't. If not, there might
>be a great niche here for new record companies. Certainly there are
>dozens of pop bands that, rounded out with studio musicians, are every
>bit as good as the product sold by the big labels. And such no-name
>bands and studio musicians are dirt cheap. Now you just have to 
>convince the record stores and their customers that your bands are
>really at least half as good as the ones on name CDs.

Not a bad idea, although you'll still be competing with the larger labels.
Also, I would imagine that manufacturing on a smaller scale is more costly.

-Luther

Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: shm@phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com (Shailendra Majmundar)
Subject: Tax, pension advice for new starter
Reply-To: shm@syl.nj.nec.com
Organization: NEC Systems Laboratory, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 20:20:17 GMT

My brother is thinking about starting a home based business to
sell computer h/ws. He is confused about how to inc. in 
subchapter S, fed, state tax liabilities (FICA,FUTA,SUI)etc.
and how to set up pension plan etc.

Could someone pl. share with me his/her experiences in this regards?
The accountants are charging outrageous fees for an advice.

Thanks in advance,
Sam (shm@syl.nj.nec.com)
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Neat idea forsale!
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:15:31 GMT
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.

Last night I had a very interesting idea which seemed too amazing to be
true since at first glance it violates basic principles of signal
processing, however when I tried it it actually turned out to work...

For $10-$20 it would be possible to make a board that would attach
to a workstation or PC and allow a continously updated spectrum
to be displayed on the screen of frequencies all the way from 
cycles per hour up a good way into the microwave (giga hz) range.
For obvious reasons I can't give any more details, but I have 
numerically simulated the system and am fairly confident that
its feasable. 

If any one would be interested in either purchasing the idea out right
or providing capital to make a marketable system please contact me.
Please realize I can't give any more information without a non
disclosure agreement.

-- 
>>Unix/C Contract worker available 5 years C/unix work experience<<  ______
Available for Telecommuting/Travel and contracts on the T Line       \    /
in the Boston MA area. Send me e-mail for a copy of my Resume.        \  /
       -- VWIS 508-793-9568 (2400 baud), Linux support BBS.--          \/
From: bala@toasties.ai.mit.edu (Bala Subramaniam)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Starting business in U.S on F-1 visa status
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:18:32 GMT
Distribution: USA

This is a long shot, but let me try...

I am in the U.S as a foreign student on an F-1 visa. I am on the 
verge of starting up a sole proprietorship business, which involves
selling a product that I have developed to other businesses. From my
reading of the rules covering the F-1 visa, it is not clear to me
whether I will get INS or someone else all upset over this. The rules
clearly say that, I am not eligible to work over 20 hours a week and
that too only on certain kinds of employment. On the question of self
employment, (I guess that is what starting a business is) they are
completely silent. I tried to ask the INS people and they say that I
should contact the State Department. Does that make sense?

Could someone explain to me the legal difference between employment
and self-employment. If I flip burgers at McDonalds, that is clearly
employment. If I flip burgers in my own porch and sell it to passers-by
that is probably self-employment. How about if I convince my landlady
to pay for the ingredients, allow me to use her porch in return for
a percentage for every burger I sell. 

I could and will ultimately consult a lawyer, but was hoping that someone
here might be able to tell me one way or other from practical experience.

	- Thanks in advance,

	 Bala
From: warble@vmdb.vet.purdue.edu (Alan Warble)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Patent Question
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:41:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University SVM

In article <1992Jul25.192507.475@riacs.edu> dschlot@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Dave Schlotthauer) writes:
>Does anyone know if an idea can be patented? I called a patent search
>company and they sent me some forms to fill out asking what my invention
>was with a space for me to draw a diagram of it. I told them it was
>still in the idea stage but they said it didn't matter. I haven't even
>started putting it together yet. Will they ask for a prototype when
>and if I am granted a patent?
>
>Thanks in advance!!

If the idea is just an idea and not an idea about a specific
thing (like a new machine) then write it down and take out
a copyright on it.

If it's a patentable idea, there are two types of patents:
a design patent and a utility patent. Both need patent attorneys,
and both are expensive (design 6-800 dollars, utility $2000)

A prototype is no longer required to patent a device through
the US Patent Office.

A good lawyer is probably cheap if the idea has value. 
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: bill@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re: Patent Question
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:40:07 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.145842.4534@nrao.edu>, lmiller@heineken.tuc.nrao.edu (Luther Miller) writes:
> In article <1992Jul25.192507.475@riacs.edu> dschlot@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Dave Schlotthauer) writes:
>>Does anyone know if an idea can be patented? I called a patent search
>>company and ...
> 
> I am almost positive that it is entirely possible to patent and _idea_.
> 
> Luther

You cannot patent an idea. You can patent a design, process, thing, or
other hard item or drawing of such, but the idea itself is not patentable.

(Just think of it : I PATENT THE IDEA OF A FLYING MACHINE.)

|--------------------------------------|----------------------------------|
| What a wonderful bird the frog are.  | "In fact, except for protecting  |
| When he stand, he sit, almost.       |  individual rights, no valid     |
| When he hop, he fly, almost.         |  reason for government exists."  |
| He ain't got no sense, hardly.       |       ... Dr. Frank Wallace      |
| He ain't got no tail, hardly, either.|----------------------------------|  
| When he sit, he sit on what he ain't |          Bill Garland            |  
| got, almost.          -anonymous     |      bill@kean.ucs.mun.ca        |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: If you need a low cost multiuser system, read this. Boston MA area.
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:15:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.

I noticed several people are setting up information services, I had been
working on a similar thing (resume listing services) which ultimately
failed. However in the process I was able to assemble a complete multi user
Unix (tm) like system for free using freeware thats available on the net. I
developed database software which could easily be adapted for electronic
sales and other applications. If you would be interested in my services
in this area please write back. 

Note: I need money upfront, if I'm going to gamble its going to be on
      my own business :)
-- 
>>Unix/C Contract worker available 5 years C/unix work experience<<  ______
Available for Telecommuting/Travel and contracts on the T Line       \    /
in the Boston MA area. Send me e-mail for a copy of my Resume.        \  /
       -- VWIS 508-793-9568 (2400 baud), Linux support BBS.--          \/
From: lmiller@heineken.tuc.nrao.edu (Luther Miller)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Compact Disc Wholesalers
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:52:27 GMT
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Tucson Az.

In article <1992Jul28.215204.24547@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias) writes:
>
>I don't know if what I'm about to say has been raised in this 
>discussion yet, but you all be pleased <sarcasm> to hear that CD's
>cost less to manufacture than cassettes, yet they sell for more.
>The Financial Times of Canada did a feature article on this a few
>months ago.  Record companies are making a *killing* selling CD's
>
>Edgar


Speaking of CDs in Canada... They don't package them with all the waste that
you find here in the US. Does anyone know if there are any distributors
(besides the CD clubs ;-) that sell CDs without the outer cardboard box?

Luther
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: 7 Anyone need a SECOND INCOME???
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 19:03:31 GMT

abulloch@garnet.berkeley.edu (Anthony Bulloch) writes:

>Chris -
>
>I do wish you hadn't just reprinted (and therefore rebroadcast)
>the whole of that news posting. As you said yourself, there was

You're correct and I apologize. I just wish the system I use would
allow me to delete more than 1 line at a time.

>a lot of hot air there and not much substance (and you were
>probably infringing copyright, like the original, anonymous
>poster).  I have done quite a lot of research myself into
>the MLM area over the last couple of years, and there _are_
>one or two excellent opportunities (good companies, good
>timing etc.) available, but encouraging these anonymous
>bloated postings is not the way to help the unwary find them.

I don't think I encouraged him.  In fact, by mentioning the
*A* company, it took a lot of wind out of his sails.

> - stuff deleted -
>By the way, where is the original poster? Are you there?
>Are you going to come out of hiding? Several of us did ask
>some straightforward questions...

The poster is SABARNETT@UALR.EDU.  With respect to the above para-
graph.....ditto.


>Anthony Bulloch
>abulloch@garnet.berkeley.edu

Chris Colvin
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
From: kevoka@auto-trol.com (Kevin O'Kane)
Subject: Re: ILLEGAL TO OPERATE MULTI-LEVEL WITH PURE MONEY TRANSACTIONS??
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:05:41 GMT

>Well, there are certainly some significant similarities between pyramid schemes
>and Amway *as marketed by many distributors*.  IMHO, "pure money games", while

Please elaborate on the similarities.

>clearly illegal, are much more straightforward... that is to say, there is
>less likely to be dishonesty recruiting people into a pure money game, than
>there is recruiting people into Amway.  Amway benefits from being in a gray
>area of the law... while Amway is often marketed in an unethical manner,
>determining it to be illegal would require the FTC to find that the Amway
>products were a sham, insofar as the marketing plan goes.

What is the gray area of the law? Amway is 4.5 billion dollar a year business
which, if it were publicly traded would place it as the 149th largest company
in the U.S. by sales (using the *Fortune 500* ranking). A company cannot get this big
by engaging in illegal activities and escape notice of the FTC. It does business
in all 50 states which have their own Attorny Generals' offices and business
regulatory bodies. Do you not suppose that each state has not checked it out.
From: alex@bilver.uucp (Alex Matulich)
Subject: Re: ILLEGAL TO OPERATE MULTI-LEVEL WITH PURE MONEY TRANSACTIONS??
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:38:40 GMT

shm@syl.nj.nec.com writes:
>Is it illegal to form a pyramid system without selling a product? What I

Yes.

It's called a "chain letter."

>mean is that a system may be formed by which the people at the bottom
>of the pyramid would contribute x amount with an incentive to go up
>the ladder while the money be distributed in the pyramid top down? It

Yup, sounds like a chain letter.


-- 
 _ |__  Alex Matulich
 /(+__>  Unicorn Research Corp, 4621 N Landmark Dr, Orlando, FL 32817
//| \     UUCP:  alex@bilver.uucp   {peora|ge-dab|uunet!tous}!bilver!alex
///__)     Internet:  alex@bilver.oau.org | alex%bilver@peora.sdc.ccur.com
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level,alt.business.multi-level.scam.scam.scam
From: Eli.Mantel@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Eli Mantel)
Subject: Re: ILLEGAL TO OPERATE MULTI-LEVEL WITH PURE MONEY TRANSACTIONS??
Summary: Kevin questions the similarities between Amway and pyramid schemes
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:40:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.170541.10039@auto-trol.com> kevoka@auto-trol.com
(Kevin O'Kane) writes:
>>Well, there are certainly some significant similarities between pyramid schemes
>>and Amway *as marketed by many distributors*.
>
>Please elaborate on the similarities.

I'm not sure I've got enough space on my hard disk to identify all the
similarities, Kevin. :-)

I think I'll decline to fall for this debating trick... but for those
who doubt that's what it is, I'll state a few similarities, and provide
answers from a hypothetical MLM promoter:

A.: MLM is like a pyramid scheme because in both cases, you recruit people
    to recruit more people... ...to recruit more and more people.
B.: GM and IBM use a hierarchical structure too.

A.: MLM is like a pyramid scheme because in both cases, most of the people
    who participate lose money.
B.: It's true that most people who get into the NUKLEEWAY MLM lose money...
    but how many of these people gave it a good enough chance... how many
    showed the marketing plan to 100 prospects?  Even so, most new businesses
    lose money too... and go out of business within a few years.  So MLM
    is no worse than entering any business on this score.

A.: MLM (as it is typically presented) and pyramid schemes both rely on
    finding more and more suckers to enrich those people who are already
    involved... both should be illegal.
B.: MLMs with bona fide products ARE LEGAL, and provide a cost-effective
    marketing and distribution channel.  People who participate are not
    suckers, they are entrepreneurs seeking an opportunity to earn large
    rewards for their efforts, including residual income.

So tell me, Kevin.  Which of these hypothetical responses do you NOT
see the hole in?
			Eli Mantel (eli.mantel@bbs.oit.unc.edu)
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
From: Eli.Mantel@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Eli Mantel)
Subject: Re: ILLEGAL TO OPERATE MULTI-LEVEL WITH PURE MONEY TRANSACTIONS??
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 11:25:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.163120.3171@auto-trol.com> kevoka@auto-trol.com (Kevin O'Kane) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.141821.26509@research.nj.nec.com> shm@syl.nj.nec.com writes:
>>Is it illegal to form a pyramid system without selling a product? ... It
>>would be similar to what Amway does, excepting that here there would be
>>no selling of products, simply PURE MONEY GAMES.
>
>This is what is known as a ponzi scheme and is illegal. This is not in any
>way similar to what Amway does.

Well, there are certainly some significant similarities between pyramid schemes
and Amway *as marketed by many distributors*.  IMHO, "pure money games", while
clearly illegal, are much more straightforward... that is to say, there is
less likely to be dishonesty recruiting people into a pure money game, than
there is recruiting people into Amway.  Amway benefits from being in a gray
area of the law... while Amway is often marketed in an unethical manner,
determining it to be illegal would require the FTC to find that the Amway
products were a sham, insofar as the marketing plan goes.

A good rule to follow when looking at the Amway opportunity:  ask to see the
Amway disclosure agreement... BELIEVE the facts as stated in the disclosure
agreement... if an Amway recruiter is attempting to gloss over or otherwise
make light of the content of the disclosure agreement, RUN!
				Eli Mantel (eli.mantel@bbs.oit.unc.edu)
(Send flames to alt.business.multi-level.scam.scam.scam)
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: dfavor@logan.tivoli.com (David Favor)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: To Incorporate or Not to Incorporate
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:49:09 GMT

In article <0eMmgoe00WoKMKNWVh@cs.cmu.edu>, Katherine.Cox@cs.cmu.edu writes:
|> 
|> 
|> I am going to be traveling to Moscow to live and
|> work, and I have a few ideas about small
|> business ventures that I could start there.
|> Probably short lived things that would make
|> decent, but certainly not lots of money.
|> 
|> I am wondering if it is worth trying to incorporate
|> before I go in order to write off business expenses.
|> I really don't know what is involved yet, but
|> some people are telling me that I should do it.
|> 
|> Any advise would be appreciated.
|> 
|> Thanks in advance,
|> 
|> Kate

depends... what will your primary job be and what are
your ideas for other "business ventures"?
Xref: sparky misc.entrepreneurs:2370 alt.business.multi-level:313