HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Questions about the draft
Date: 13 Sep 92 03:18:36 GMT
Organization: Boo!

In <BuH5JE.H2A@zoo.toronto.edu> rising@zoo.toronto.edu (Jim Rising) writes:

>Dave mentioned that players signed after they are 19 cannot be
>drafted until they have been professionals for 3 years.  Does
>this go for guys already in the majors.  Would a guy like
>Olerud, say, be exempt if he hadn't completed 3 professional
>years (I think he has, in fact, but just barely)? 

No.  The 3 years and less provision only affects players who have
never been signed to a major league contract.  To appear in the majors,
you have to be signed to a major league contract.  The clubs are
allowed to have a maximum of 40 players under major league contract
at any one time (thus the 40 man roster).  Most players are signed to
a major league contract under one of two circumstances: 1) the club
wants to call him up to the major leagues or 2)the club needs to sign
him to a major league contract in order to protect him in the Rule V
draft.  The only player signed to a major league contract in recent
years for reasons other than those 2 was Todd Van Poppel.           

But that's a lot more than you wanted to know, isn't it? 

 And isn't
>there something about not being able to draft someone under
>20...?

Not that I know of.

Greg 
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here) 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: gilford@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Gilford T. Hapanyengwi)
Subject: Re: Robin Yount
Organization: Vanderbilt University CS Dept.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:03:50 GMT

I saw the number of Pete Rose's carrier hits 4000+ and was just
wondering how close the next guy is.  Infact if someone has the info
and patience could they post the players (and hits) who passed the
3000 mark.
--
<><><><><><><><>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<>><>
Gilford T. Hapanyengwi       |Q: What is a black man's life
(615) 322-3552               |   worth?
gilford@vuse.vanderbilt.edu  |A: Another black man's life.
hapanyg@vuctrvax.bitnet      |

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: shadow@r-node.gts.org (Jay Chu)
Subject: Twins vs Jays Series
Organization: Public Access UNIX Information System
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1992 22:05:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.834.44039@dosgate> "mike walker" <mike.walker@canrem.com> writes:
>VE>Since when is Cito using pinch hitters? Has someone finally broken the
>VE>secret that pinch hitters are allowed in the American League?
>
>VE>It is my impression that the Blue Jays use very few pinch hitters:
>VE>certainly I have been baffled about some of the match-ups that Cito
>VE>permits. Does anyone have numbers for this?
>
>VE>Vince.
>
>Righhhhtttt; let's bash Cito for not using his bench to pinch hit. He
>should be sending Fredo Griffin (.200 BA), Pat Tabler (.241) and Derek
>Bell (.221) up more? He didn't use Myers or Doucey much before they
>were treaded, since their averages were low too. He did use Kent
>before he left for NY (even though he hit all of .241), and last year
>used Mullinicks and Parker. This year Cito hasn't had much of a bench
>to use; what would you do with what he's got?

       ||/|/|/|
       |      |
       |      |
       | (o)(o)
      C      _)
       | ,___|     shadow!
       |    /

That was a great series nonetheless.  I like the third game where Cito used
Alomar as a lead off hitter, but didn't like Gruber to hit 2nd (Gruber
went 0 for).  Cito did make a good move when Stottlemyre was in a jam and
took him out when 2 were on and replaced him with terminator Henke.
From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:42:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies, & Statistics (was Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

In rec.sport.baseball, sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda) writes:

> I don't know if anyone has DA stats for Cecil,
> but I would wager, w/o looking, that Cecil is at least at the league
> average for 1b.

According to the DA stats Sherri posted a few months ago, Cecil was a little
below league average in 1991 - .653 vs. .662 for the AL (range was .629 for
Benzinger to .743 for McGwire).  Cecil, was, however, somewhat above average in
1990 - .679 vs .646 for the AL (range was .573 for Hrbek to .718 for McGwire).
He's no McGwire, but certainly not the immobile tub of goo some would suggest,
either.

This doesn't change the fact that first base is a relatively easy/unimportant
position; Fryman would still get brownie points were he really an above average
fielder.  His 1991 DA would suggest otherwise, however - a rather Lansfordian
.571 at third in 1991.  He may still get bonus points for being a more
significant plus offensively compared to others at his position; I don't have
the data on that.  I'd suspect both are moderately above average in that
department.  Personally, I'm not inclined to value Travis Fryman above Cecil
Fielder based on the data I do have.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias)
Subject: Re: Magic Numbers Explanation...
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 14:21:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.031014.24749@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS) writes:
>In article <5253@news.duke.edu> daniel@acpub.duke.edu (Daniel Crawford) writes:
>>
>>I would greatly appreciate it if someone out there could please explain
>>the magic numbers that come so often into discussion this time of year.
>>What is the exact definition of the magic number?
>>
>
>	The magic number is the sum of wins by the first place team
>and the losses of the second place team needed in order to clinch a division
>title. When the number reaches 0, the pennant race is over.
>
>	It's calculated as follows:
>
>	163 - (# losses of 2nd place) - (# wins 1st place)
>

BTW, have you noticed that ESPN has been giving incorrect Magic numbers
in their baseball shows?  They seem to have replaced 163 with 162!
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!



-- 
Pablo
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones)
Subject: Ryan Award (was Re: Amazing Walk Total)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 17:21:27 GMT
Reply-To: mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Corp. Kingston NY

In article <1992Sep9.230325.7719@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> dew6c@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Dallas E. Wrege) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.201619.18902@esd.dl.nec.com>, west@esd.dl.nec.com (Mike West) writes:
>> From article <1992Sep9.182541.20103@news.iastate.edu>, by sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm):
>> > This is one of the most amazing things I've seen this year.
>> > Randy Johnson   172 innings ..... 124 BB !!!
>> > Good grief - is this close to some kind of record for a season?
>Well, I don't know the rest of his stats, but Nolan Ryan is the all-time
>baseball leader in both strikeouts and walks, and has held the 
>single-season record several times...

Periodically, the topic of Ryan retiring comes up and someone always offers
the opinion that they should name an award after him. This is my nomination
for the Ryan Award: most (H+BB)/IP.

   Mike Jones  |  AIX/ESA Development  |  mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com

In high schools, colleges, and some countries they're learning a game that's
not baseball.
	- Tug McGraw on the DH
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Times on Base: all-time records and Frank Thomas
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:32:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.223422.16796@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.191849.3728@menudo.uh.edu> chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane) writes:
>
>>> btw, if HBP includes no skill, how come Ron Hunt/Don Baylor
>>> always led in the category?  
>
>>Getting hit with a pitch intentionally is extremely stupid. The probability of getting injured and being
>>out of the lineup for weeks or months (thus hurting your team), far outweighs the benefit of 
>>reaching base a few more times.  There was a rash of people injured earlier this year while being hit
>>by pitches, Larkin comes to mind immediately.  Are you saying you think a team would perform
>>better if the players were coached to be hit by pitches rather than avoid them ? 
>
>a) How many HBP are there annually?
>
>b) How many result in injuries?
>
>If you know how to get hit (look like you're trying to get out of the
>way, then take it on the rear or someplace you know won't hurt you too
>much) then it's not a bad play at all.  Very few players, however, like
>to take the risk, or to learn how to get hit.  Ron Hund used to wear
>some special underwear; I don't think he spent a day on the DL because
>of an HBP, and he got hit over 250 times.  
>
>Note that the people who got hit and injured tended to get hit on the
>hand or something.  This is dangerous indeed.  A good HBP-er knows how
> to keep the hands out of the way.
>
>In summary: it's an acquired taste.

I'll say that for the most part, HBP are accidental, but there are some players
who "know how to get hit" (I'd also have to agree with your "acquired taste"
sentiment; that's REAL team spirit!). You could also throw in catcher's
interference, if you had the stats. Van Slyke gets one or two of those a year,
and while not INCREDIBLY significant, it does help.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary FDA Approved Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks on the Net
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:57:52 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Pat Gillick Hairdo Club (Puckett Division)

>glb50263@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Gary L. Blickhan) writes:
>>
>>I agree with a lot of this.  Mr. Huckabay has done worse, though.  I
>>remember the time that he changed his name file to my name.
>>In short, he used my name to post annoying articles telling everyone
>>to go to **** ,etc.  This damaged my reputation unfairly.

Incorrect.  I did no such thing.  I changed my name environment to 
Gary Blickhan for one post, which was about the relative merit of
varying one's stance in the batter's box.  I insulted no one, nor did
I do any harm to your reputation.  I doubt anyone here believed for
one second that you originated that article.  Considering MY signature
was at the bottom, and the usercode didn't change, and the body of the
article was serious, do you honestly think my intention was to damage
your reputation?  Please.

Considering your activity on the net, Mr. Blickhan, which included
mailing 5+ megs of junk mail to me, I wonder if it's wise for you to
be criticizing my nettiquette.

Dave Eisen writes:

>I hereby give Gary Huckabay permission to make fun of
>me any way he wants to in this forum. Maybe I should 
>add that to my .sig.

Ditto.  Anyone here can feel free to say anything they want about me
in this forum, provided it's at least moderately amusing.  :-)

>And if Gary does anything here that ever really hurts 
>anybody, I'll be the first to write to his sysadmin
>to have his net privileges pulled.

Well, I'd like to give you that chance.  And so, here's Dave Kirsch's
Bank One VISA card number....

:-)

And now, on to some baseball...

Mark McGwire has thus far failed to respond to the cortisone shot he
received earlier in the week, and may be out for the full season,
including the playoffs.  He will play tonight against Seattle, and,
hopefully, will not feel pain in his lower rib cage, but I'm not
betting on it.  Look for the A's to try to survive the season by
moving the chump du jour over to first base.

Could be tricky.

In other news on the baseball front...

The 'BaumBat', an experimental composite bat, is looking to become the
first bat tested by baseball to replace the current wooden bats.  The
BaumBat is apparently the closest thing to hard ash that's currently
available, in terms of 'synthetic' bats.


-- 
*    Gary Huckabay    * 'RBIs rank roughly below political affiliation *
*  'Watching Harold   *  and just above shoe size in terms of whether  *
*   Brooks stalk the  *  a guy can actually hit.  Hitting is more than *
*  Maxvill household.'*  just being lucky.' - T.S. Underwood.          *
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wilbanks@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Dylan Wilbanks)
Subject: Rockies AAA team announced!!!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:13:58 GMT

In today's Denver Post, it was reported that the Colo. Springs Sky Sox 
wil posses the AAA farm team of the Colorado Rockies. The Cleveland team 
currently in the Springs will become the Charlotte Knights.

And now you know.

-- 
Dylan Wilbanks, Classics major, AND NOW Environmental Conservation!
Hobbes:"Why do we always play war and not peace?"|Currently at:
Calvin:"Too few role models."                    |Box 1143
Ren-n-Stimpy in '92! Vote for a real cartoon!    |Boulder, CO 80306
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RC/27 for 1Bs (with a new twist)
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:13:29 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu):

>The "replacement level" (1 RC/27 below average) will be deducted from the
>player's RC/27, and then it will be multiplied by (games started at position)/
>(games played by the team) to estimate the value *at the position only*.  I
>don't think this is perfect, but I don't want to spend 24 hours on this.
>Comments are welcome.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what this is supposed to tell you.  RC is
a hypothetical: "How many runs would 9 clones of this guy score?"  Normalized
in RC/27, it's "How many runs would 9 clones of this guy score per game?",
more or less.  I disagree with Bill James that you can assess a player's
actual value using RC/27, precisely because you can't really play 9 clones
of Player X.  This was the whole motivation behind marginal lineup values;
they demonstrate that two players with identical RC/27 can have very different
values in the middle of an average lineup.

I have no problem with using RC as a sort of "Who are the best offensive
players, in the abstract?" measure.  I *don't* think you can talk coherently
about a "replacement level RC/27", though. 

As an aside, this same criticism applies to the Brock2 projection method, 
which makes the doubly-problematical suggestion that playing time is decided
by a player's current RC/27 (or, actually, RC/25).  Not only is RC/25 the wrong
measure to use in deciding a player's actual contribution to the team, but no
manager in baseball is sophisticated enough to decide who plays and who doesn't
play on that basis.  Aging superstars like Pete Rose play long after their RC
numbers have fallen into AA level, and might-have-beens like Warren Newsome
ride the bench for years when they could be putting up great numbers.



-- 
      David M. Tate      | From my dugout sleep I fell into the Game
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | And I crouched in the circle while my insides froze
 Randall 'Chico' Jarrell | One out from death, one hit from dreamt-of glory
"Death of a Pinch Hitter"| I woke to 'Strike One!' and the nightmare sliders...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kaufman@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Ken Kaufman)
Subject: Re: Top 10: Why Bush should be the new commissioner
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:10:13 GMT

11.  Read my lips.  No new ticket prices!

==Ken
From: mspede@atlas.nafb.trw.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Times on Base: all-time records and Frank Thomas
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:36:17 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep8.191849.3728@menudo.uh.edu>, chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane) writes:
>>In article <37806@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes: 
>> >In article <1992Sep8.154935.16353@menudo.uh.edu> chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane) writes:
>> >>In article <5580@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>>   
>> I tend to think that reaching on errors should be included as
>> time on base, but the information is hard to get.  However, reaching
>> by FC is substantially different from the others in nature - it
>> results in an out.  By "times reaching base", I think Dr. Dave is
>> looking at "PA which don't result in an out".
> 
> I agree that reaching on a FC is totally worthless, so we can disgard that immediately.  I just 
> mentioned it because it is a "time on base".
> The thing that rubs me is that guys who bust their ass to beat out a bobbled ball get no credit, while
> Don Baylor gets credit for having a bullseye painted on his back.
> 
>> 
>> btw, if HBP includes no skill, how come Ron Hunt/Don Baylor
>> always led in the category?  
>> 
> 
> Getting hit with a pitch intentionally is extremely stupid. The probability of getting injured and being
> out of the lineup for weeks or months (thus hurting your team), far outweighs the benefit of 
> reaching base a few more times.  There was a rash of people injured earlier this year while being hit
> by pitches, Larkin comes to mind immediately.  Are you saying you think a team would perform
> better if the players were coached to be hit by pitches rather than avoid them ? 

  Actually, haven't most of the injuries been to wrists ?  Baylor (at least
  during his angel days) stood close to the plate and made no effort to back
  away from an inside pitch, instead he just turned his back.  I think that he
  realized the importance of getting on base, and took very little risk of 
  injury.  (I can't remember him comming out of a game due to HBP).  

  msp

  P.S.  During his MVP year (1982?), how many times did he get hit ?  'Cause
        he probably didn't spend much time on the DL.
From: weiss@cs.wm.edu (David W. Weiss)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: who gets credit for win?
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:58:36 GMT
Organization: The College of William and Mary

In article <1992Sep10.210811.19778@honte.uleth.ca> savoy@hg.uleth.ca writes:
>
>In Phillip Godwin <cmpsg03@nt.com> writes:
>
>>What is the rule(s) for determining which pitcher
>>gets credit for a win?
>>I've always assumed that it was the pitcher that was
>>in the line-up when the go ahead run was scored - is
>>this right?
>
>Yup - provided the lead his team takes is unrelinquished. A starting pitcher
>has to throw 5 full innings to get a win however, and if he doesn't make
>it, and his team goes on to victory without ever having relinquished the
>lead they took when he pitched his less-than-5 innings, the official scorer 
>can award the win to the pitcher (other than the starter) he feels pitched the
>best. This is a rarity.
>
>I'm not too clear on all of baseball's many rules, but I'm pretty sure I've
>covered all the bases as far as pitching wins go.
>

However, if in the opinion of the official scorer, the pitcher at the
time his team took the lead did not pitch effectively the win can
be awarded to someone else.  For example, if a manager used 3 or 4
pitchers to finish up a game and one guy only pitched 1/3 of an inning,
gave up 4 runs but was in the game when his team came back and
took the lead, the win would probably go to one of the other pitchers
who pitched well.  This doesn't happen often but it does happen.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jeffh@pisces.sps.mot.com (Jeff Heilner)
Subject: Re: GET OFF THE BANDWAGON!
Organization: SPS
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:59:38 GMT


Well, to return from a long weekend greeted by a response such as Gary's  
sure got my day off to a flying start....


I wrote:
>> When did all of you *supposed* Oakland A's "fans" become so? When they  
>> acquired all of their winning talent? And now that you feel a large
>> piece is gone, you no longer feel the team is worthy of your support?

Gary Huckabay responds:
> 
> Longer than you, Jocko.  I have 1970 ticket stubs, when my dad and I
> used to go to 20 games a year.

Sorry I couldn't have joined you in 1970...but I was only 3 years old, and  
lived in Fresno.


> I have ticket stubs from the dreaded '651' game.  If you have to ask,
> then get off your high horse.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I know exactly what you are talking  
about...even if you did refer to it incorrectly!

For others that may be wondering, you are talking about the game in April  
of 1979 in which a game between the A's and the Mariners drew only 653  
(not 651) fans. Dave Heaverlo got the win for the A's that Tuesday night.

That year the A's drew barely over 300,000 at home for the entire season.  
I'm proud to say I represented about 30 of those, including the other  
"sub-1000" fan game in 1979 in Sept. against Texas which drew 750 fans.

How did you get the fan count wrong on the April game Gary? You were  
probably just testing me, right? :)


I wrote:
>> Why, because a team makes a personnel decision that you don't agree
>> with, do you suddenly feel that you can no longer support the team as
>> you once did?

Gary responds:
> This move is a slap in my face, and illustrates that the Organization
> may not value me as a customer, because it lowers the quality of the
> product on the field.

If you have indeed been a fan continuously since 1970 then your loyalty  
obviously survived Charlie O's "fire sale" which reduced a dynasty to the  
"Triple A's" in just 2 years. Why would you then consider jumping ship  
now, after the trade of one player?

If your not jumping ship, and the rest of you response seems to indicate  
you are not, then why did you even respond to my post? You seem to be a  
long time A's fan, I don't think my original posting even applied to you.

Oh well, at least I got a new nickname out of it.

- Jeff "Jocko" Heilner


------------------------------------------------
Jeff Heilner
Motorola SPS - Tempe, AZ 
Email: jeffh@pisces.sps.mot.com (NeXT)
*** A'S *** SHARKS *** WARRIORS *** RAIDERS ***
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Life  6.F
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:48:57 GMT


Saw this on rec.humor and I thought I'd pass it along:

>(g) Atlanta Braves pitcher John Smoltz gave himself five-inch-long
>    welts in March when he tried to iron his polo shirt while wearing it.
>    "I've ironed that way five or six times," he said, "and never had
>    it happen."

Sort of reminds me how Kevin Mitchell put himself on the DL; he pulled a
muscle in his rib-cage while throwing up.


Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball