HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: danaf@bray1b.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 03:03:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.164538.21385@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
|> Peter da Silva (peter@NeoSoft.com) wrote:
|> :
|> : The Amiga 500/600 can hold up to 10M of RAM directly addressible from
|> : any well-behaved program written since the Amiga came out. To use more
|> : than 640K on a PC you need to install an operating system, use it as
|> : a RAM-DISK, or use it as swap space. And buy new software, of course.
|> :
|> 
|> This is completely bogus, Peter, and I suspect that you yourself know better.
|> What I don't understand is why you'd want to spread these lies.  Windows,
|> all Windows applications, and many other programs (like Borland C++) use more
|> than 640K, and not as a RAM-Disk or swap space.  Heck, even Ultima Underwold
|> requires 2MB.  And I'm not even talking about UNIX or OS/2, both of which
|> utilize a flat 32-bit memory model.

I think what he meant was install an OS <<or>> use it as a RAM disk or swap
space. In fact, it was pretty clear that that's what he meant.

|> --
|> +-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
|> | JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
|> | Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|> |    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
|> +-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+

-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32527 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19342
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:57:51 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

>Sure OS/2 can boot off a floppy.  I develop on it and have my OS/2/EE system
>right next to me here.  About all you can do after you boot off of the floppy
>is move files around.  Nice of you to forget to mention that....

Funny, I can run text mode programs, and even (I think, I haven't tried
it) multitask.  Just like Unix. 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: colins@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Colin Stuckless)
Subject: Re: a MB style flame against IBMs
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 04:26:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.171635.17951@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Jeff Shearer (jshearer@beta.tricity.wsu.edu) wrote:
>:
>: >WARNING: you might want to bail out now and skip all this.  Its just a
>: >meaningless tirade against IBMS after what I went through recently.  So
>: >if you keep reading afte this warning, don't complain to me, man.
>:
>: Not complaining, just clarifying a few things.
>:
>
>Jeff, you didn't take that post seriously, did you?  It was just some
>ignorant moron pissed off at MB, trying to seem intelligent by being
>sarcastic.

  No, Jerry. It was a 'real life, everyday experience' that the guy had using
a clone and Windows. He didn't like it. He was not impressed. He likes his
Amiga a lot more. This seems to be a basic concept that you have yet to
grasp.
 
  Merry Christmas.

>: - Jeff

>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |


-- 
\\\   )))   |||  \ "Take it from me - I know what I'm talking about" 
@ ">  @ ">  @ ">  \   - Ren Hoek in 'Fire Dogs'
 \`    \~    \-    \  colins@garfield.cs.mun.ca             
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:47:04 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

David Tiberio (dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu) wrote:
: >:
: >: 	Funny, I can move both my windows and my screens both horizontally
: >: and vertically.
: >:
: >
: >Really?  You can have, for example, one screen covering up the left half
: >of another?
:
: 	Now you must be joking...you have just suggested that you know how
: the screens work. Why the hell are you still playing dumb? I can move my
: screens horizontally, however I cannot do what you describe above because 
: the Amiga does not support that, and I don't think it will for the moment.
: Read the RKMs, however, and you'll see that they made room for it via
: software. But, my statement is still true; I can move any screen horizontally
: provided that its horizontal resolution is less than that of the next
: screen.
:

I'm sorry, but I can't make any sense out of that paragraph.  Can you move
a screen horizontally or not?  For instance, can you move one screen so that
it covers up the left half of another?  As far as I know, you can't, but it's
been a while since I've used an Amiga.

:
:       Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS 14.4 v.32bis
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: m92mmy@tdb.uu.se (Mattias Myrberg)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Marc Barrett, Superstar!
Date: 22 Dec 92 06:04:33 GMT
Organization: Alien Dreams Department
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

In article 34754 Stephenson Daniel writes:

>Seriously though, it sure seems like you guys jump all over Marc
>and call him insulting names and degrade his posts over some
>over the most TRIVIAL or DUMB things!  Why? don't you have something
>better to do?  An example of this sort of pathetic flaming might be
>a dozen follups on my term 'DUMB things!' two lines up, saying things
>like 'Har har, yeah, *real* DUMB, that Marc', etc etc.

>Get a life!

True, obviously he hired the wrong promoter :|

/Mattias

_______
Mattias Myrberg

m92mmy@bellatrix.tdb.uu.se
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 01:54:38 GMT

>John Bickers (jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz) wrote:
>:
>: > Come on, Peter -- that's a bit cynical.  I can show you several OS books
>: > which consider DOS an OS.
>:
>:     And this is really naive. I can show you several magic books which
>:     consider magic to be real.

Oh GOD you sound stupid!  Can you not think of *any* better
analogies than this?  I won't bother shooting holes in it as it is.

>: > My Atari 800 ran useful applications in 16K.  Not exactly a miracle of
>: > modern technology.
>:
>:     So you're saying your Atari 800 is better than a PC?

There you go again!

[Jerry Shekhel]>No, just saying that this whole line of argument is stupid.

Right.
6
>: *** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
-- 
Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  
"Yes Dan, I have heard of Ultima Underworld.  From my point of view it
 appears to be a rather large stick which you seem to be using to beat
 everbody in this group with." -Mark Steyn, comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:48:32 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Charles C. Bundy (ccb8m@onyx.cs.Virginia.EDU) wrote:
:
: Bzzzt, sorry Jerry, the Unix worm didn't require "immense" knowledge of
: unix systems.  Any undergrad could have written it.  There was a backdoor
: in mail such that the author could log in with system privleges to assist
: the sysadmin with installation.  If your root, yer almighty as far as
: unix is concerned, no clever hacks required to bypass memory protection,
: or fiddle with the kernel.  The Morrison hack was a simple hunt and 
: replicate.
:

Oh puh-leeze.  You don't have to have immense knowledge of Unix systems,
but you do have to know about back doors in "mail".  Listen to yourself
for a minute.  I've worked with Unix for 8 years, and I don't know about
any such back doors.  Why does every person at my company go to the sysadmin
when they need temporary root access?  Why not just use the "mail" back door
that "any undergrad" knows?  Nah, creating a self-replicating network-
penetrating Unix virus is something "any undergrad" could do.  Do even *you*
believe this BS?

:
: As far as the "second-week" student goes, anyone with no brains can frob
: the power switch on a unix/mini/mainframe.  How's that for screwing up?
:

Multi-user systems typically sit in locked computer rooms.  Besides, we
were talking about viruses.  I've yet to see a software program that can
"frob" (whatever that means) a power switch.

:
: Most second week students won't be using dynamic types (pointers) either,
: so yer memory protection is a moot point...
:

Charles, have you ever taken a class in computer science?  The first one
I took, a C programming course, introduced arrays during the second week.
Consider this program:

	int array[4];

	main(){
	   int i = 0;
	   while(1)
		array[i++] = rand();
	}

This program uses no pointers or dynamic allocation.  It would kill AmigaOS,
but an OS with memory protection would kill *it*.

What are you trying to say, anyway, that memory protection is useless?  Shall
we revive *that* thread?

: Charles C. Bundy IV
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philco@microsoft.com (Phillip Cooper)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:16:30 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1htal8INNcfc@uwm.edu> bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:

 [mucho deletia]

>
>I say that the dependence on DOS runs much deeper.  In fact, I say the
>dependence runs down to the CORE of windows itself.
>
>Greg
>
>--

The only thing that Windows 3.1 depends on MSDOS for is the int 21 file
service routines.  

Phil Cooper
From: L-Bueno@cup.portal.com (Louis Alberto Bueno)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 93 16:35:54 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <1992Dec29.214112.20498@klaava.Helsinki.FI> <1hqtqoINN395@phakt.usc.edu>

dleslie@phakt.usc.edu (David Leslie) writes:
>In article lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
>>Marc N. Barrett (barrett@iastate.edu) wrote:
>>>    I doubt it would uplift me.  Even in Europe there is no CD-ROM or good
>>> productivity software available for the Amiga.
>>That's true Marc, CygnusEd Professional, SAS C 6.1, Video Toaster's
>>software, Real 3D 2.0, they all suck, they're lousy and all inferior
>>to even most basic MicroSoft products. And of course we all know how
>>one definately can not hook all those CD-ROMs available via SCSI. God
>>you're pathetic, Marc.
>
>Look, I know it is natural to bash Marc Barrett, but it is important
>not to ignore possible underlying truths. The fact is that there is
>a severe shortage quality productivity software.

	It depends on what your particular "productivity" is, mon ami.

>The titles you mention
>are nice, but aren't very useful for a typical user.

	Can you please define what is a "typical user" in the Amiga
community? :-)  Where I'm from, most of us are artists, but I wouldn't
dare say that this is representative of the Amiga community at large.
I have a friend who is from Bavaria, and he, as well as most of his
friends, are programmers on the Amiga.  Would this be "typical" as well?
Do you see my point?

>I'll tell you
>what is missing, and that is software of the quality of : Word for
>Windows, Lotus 1-2-3 for windoze, Quicken, PackRat, and WinFax pro.

	If this is an indication of what you consider to be useful
software for *yourself,* then the markets the Amiga seems to service
won't be of much help to you, I'm afraid.

>Those five applications, IMHO, make clones+windows more useful than
>the amiga. I mean, Real 3-d and the toaster have limited use.

	To you :-)

>Do
>you have a toaster? I don't. 

	Obviously you don't need one. So what's the point?

>At some point hardware superiority
>becomes irrelevent when software is so obviously inferior, or even
>non-existant. Hey, the up-side is that lack of software is easier
>to fix than a messed up OS or crappy hardware. It just takes some
>money and pressue from C=.

	The up-side I see here is that you've made a strong case for
purchasing a Clone for yourself :-)

Regards,

--Louis
From: mr_scary@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Chris Hurley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 13:53:15 EST
Reply-To: mr_scary@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Chris Hurley)
Organization: Lakes Public Access

das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:

> >
> >So you're trying to tell me that when the Amiga was introduced with
> >graphics a standard on the machine and 8 bit 4 channel true stereo sound
> >and could multitask on 256K RAM which was well beyond IBM/compat standard
> >technology at the time at a cheaper price, that it had NO influence in
> >the them investing in R&D to get equal and better technology, I just
> >have to sit back and laugh at your logic.
> 
> Nope.  It was the Mac.  And it took several years before Windows 3.0 came
> along and kicked butt.  At the time, all the great apps were text based for
> PCs.  Just like today, any advantages the Amiga has are irrelevant.  Unfortun
> ?  perhaps.
> 

No.  The Macintosh didn't have Color or multitasking.  I am unsure 
whether or not it had stereo sound, but this may have come only as 
recently as the Macintosh Plus, circa 1987 or so.
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Well, I found...
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 16:26:15 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

>Well, I found how to get the A1000 into 640X400 mode, rebooted,
>and immediately went to preferences to turn it off. 
>
>How can you guys stand that flicker?  Please don't tell me you 'get used to
>it'.  I guess you get those add-ons, 'flicker-correctors'.
>
>Hmm.
>--
>Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  

Barring a flicker fixer card (which you'd have difficulty installing
into a 1000 anyway :-) you modify your WorkBench colors to decrease
the flicker when in interlace mode. You crank down the color 
intensities and you use colors which aren't in high contrast to
each other. Experiment. Play around with it. See what you can come
up with. Many have trod this path before and been quite
successful. 

Harv
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 20:50:20 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

John Bickers (jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz) wrote:
:
:     PKZIP, the program that has been held up for a long period because
:     of hardware bugs in '486 machines? GOOD example.
:

No, the one that's been out for a while, Version 1.1.  And yes, it is a
good example.

:
: *** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Date: 3 Jan 93 21:57:02 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu wrote:

> 	It looks like the 680x0 lines future is becoming less and less
> 	certain all the time.  Apple is probably going to start using the
> 	PowerPC chip for their products.  HP and others have already

Apple will move to PowerPC, but not too quickly - 68060 will kill
PowerPC when running all those 68k-programs. When most of the most
sucessfull programs are converted to PowerPC-code is the earliest time
Apple will abandon 68k.

> 	dropped the 680x0 line.  There are no personal computer or 
> 	workstation makers that I know of that have expressed a firm 
> 	commitment to moto, at least not like Intel in the PC-Clone world.

I have always wondered where all those 68k-chips go as Apple and
Commodore and all those laser printers can't be the only ones using
68k as 68k-series sells a lot more than those combined. Anyone have
any idea (excluding MB)?

> 	ahead in others, as we here know ),  the availablilty of the '060 
> 	months after the Pentium will be seen as a further lagging behind by 
> 	Apple and Commodore.

Well, we don't really know when P5 or 060 come out - I'm sure both
companies will find a few more reasons to pospone the realease date by
few monts...

-- 
Jarkko Lindblad         | sleep my friend and you will see
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi | that dream is my reality
------------------------| they keep me locked up in this cage
          - MetallicA - | can't they see it's why my brain say rage
From: jagrizza@uncc.edu (James A Grizzard)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:36:10 GMT
Reply-To: jagrizza@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte

In article 17H@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu, papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>	I'll do better than that. I'll show you a 1 meg 500 for $299 that the
>>local dealer is selling. The 500 is somewhat of a wimpy (although perfectly
>>useable) machine. For what you get, it's a reasonably good deal.
>>	If you wanna get dangerous, the 600 goes for $399. It's still wimpy,
>>but it has more chip ram and you can pick the thing up in one hand and wave it
>>around violently with little to no effort at all. (I should know, I tried it
>>at the Pasadena WOC. The Commodore rep wasn't impressed.)
>
>We were talking about computers, not consoles.  I can get a PC for
>$29.95.  I wouldn't want to, though.  Let's see you do something
>useful on a computer with no hard drive and 1 MB of RAM.

I did it all the time on my A500...

:)
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32525 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19341
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:46:20 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

>>If I wanted a Nintendo, I would buy a Nintendo.  In today's lingo a
>>"computer" is something with a monitor, hard drive and 2MB of RAM.
>
>Most PC's only need 640k.

By my definition those are no longer viable computers in today's
world.

>Hardly, it will run programs that many PC's can't handle due to the memory
>hassles. The biggest hype around surrounds all these 486's and their fast 
>hard drives, which for the most part are still running 8 bit software and
>can't figure out which interrupts are taken.

8 bit software?  Software with a 256 BYTE address space?
From: andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
Date: 22 Dec 1992 17:09:13 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>Andy Finkel (andy@cbmvax.commodore.com) wrote:

>: If you are interested in the subject, you might want to do some research
>: sometime.  The Internet Worm is fairly interesting, since it ran
>: on Unix boxes.  (remember, Unix has protected memory).
>:

>Yes, Unix has protected memory; that doesn't mean that it's bug free.  The
>Worm took advantage of bugs in Unix, and took immense knowledge and ingenuity
>to create.  On the other hand, a second-week computer science student would
>have no problem intentionally screwing up a system without memory protection.

	Aren't the both of you forgetting that UNIX also has user
privileges, and that's what makes it harder to write something
that can infiltrate the filesystem?  On single-user things like
the AmigaOS and OS/2, a program can still trash the disk if it
wanted to, right?  I think it goes beyond memory protection.

--Andre

-- 
             Andre Yew andrey@cco.caltech.edu (131.215.139.2)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc