HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Subject: Civil War Pictures, anyone?
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:07:14 GMT

Hey, it just occurred to me that some/many of you may be interested
in some of the pictures I have of CW personages....

I have 11 pictures that I can post to this
group or mail to you individually, if there is interest. I have:

angle.gif - A drawing of the fighting at "the angle" Which "angle" in 
            particular, I don't know. (could be G'burg, could be Shiloh, could
            be anywhere, really....how many "bloody angles" did we have?)

dictator.gif - No, not Davis or Lincoln, this shot is of the giant mortar
               used in the siege of Petersburg.

forrest.gif - Your favorite thug and mine. 

jackson1.gif - Your favorite loony and mine. 

jbrown.gif - Your second favorite loony and mine. Taken well before he started 
             a-mouldring. 

lee1.gif - a classic photo, unfortunately truncated at the collar. 

lincoln.gif - A standard photo.

sherman1.gif - The one with his arms folded, looking determined.

sickles.gif - How this guy could face a camera is beyond me, but there it is. 
              He was a politician. 'nuff said. 

stuart.gif - Ever wonder if this guy had a mouth? 

sumner.gif - A drawing of Charles Sumner getting caned. I'm sure it wasn't this
             pretty in real life. 

So, if you want any of these, let me know. If there's enough response,
I'll post them. They're in gif format, but I can convert to JPEG if
there's a need. 

Yours for visual computing,

JZ

p.s.
   If you have a particular hatred for anyone in these photos, for a small
price I can fire up the editor and add fangs, horns, "kick me" signs, or
pretty much anything you like. ;^)

Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: tony@longstreet.noname (tony calabrase)
Subject: gifs
Reply-To: tony@longstreet.noname
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:29:59 GMT

	I am looking for some gifs or bitmats of Confederate Generals to use as backgrounds on my SPARC's.  I would appreciate if anyone could tell me where I could get them.

Thanks,

tony@longstreet.larc.nasa.gov
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Ben Butler (was .....gee.....)
Keywords: Butler, Grant
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:11:05 GMT
Reply-To: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Distribution: usa
Organization: SGI TechPubs


Well, OK, I must stand corrected in the face of actual information
vs. my vague recollections....

Back to school for me....

JZ
From: AUDMH@ASUACAD.BITNET
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: ....gee.......
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:08:58 GMT
 <1992Jul17.224542.14125@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
 <gkq7NB1w164w@netlink.cts.com> <1992Jul21.170442.17161@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Organization: Arizona State University

In article <1992Jul21.170442.17161@odin.corp.sgi.com>,
zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) says:
>
>Before you go villifying old Ben Butler, check out his performance later in
>the
>war on the east coast. (He held some seaboard territory...) I'm not real
>familiar
>with the history of it, but my recollection is that he did a very good job.

I dunno about that, I just look at his performance in the 1864 "put people
in boats and come at Richmond from the undefended soutth" campaign, in which
he was sent ashore leading an army which greatly outnumbered his opponents
with the objective of capturing Richmond (or was it Petersburg) and a week
later, after almost no fighting, sent Grant a slef-congratulatory message
saying, in effect "I have established a strong defensive position around my
beachhead and the enemy has not destroyed me.  Oh what a good general I am."
This did not make Grant particularly happy.

David Hungerford  AUDMH@ASUACAD.BITNET  Opinions?  Mine, all mine!!!
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Subject: Whoops!
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:21:20 GMT


I accidentally fired off part two of angle.gif to this group
instead of the binary group......I'm going to have a cup
of coffee before I continue....

Also, it'll be several days while I get all these posted. I don't
want to crush the net with all of these in just one or two days. 

Always being a good net.citizen,

JZ
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: KARLIN@BNLCL6.BNL.GOV (07850_LS)
Subject: Re: Confederate Flags
Organization: BROOKHAVEN NATIONAL LABORATORY
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:36:21 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

In <5400@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu> tecump@ucsb.edu writes:

> Recall that for over 80 years, the _Stars and Stripes_ protected
> slavery.  Bigotry has been an unfortunate part of the United
> States since its inception, and people living in the North were
> just as racist, if not more, than the people living in the South,
> in general.
> 
> I am a Unionist at heart, and while the Confederate flags have
> taken on more meanings than than they once did, they are an 
> important part of our past. 
> 
> 	-dom
>  
It would seem that there is an obvious solution to the "Heritage vs. Hatred"
delema faced by the Virginia National Guard. The real Stars and Bars, 
as opposed to the Confederate (Beuregard's) Battle Flag that the newspapers 
call the "Stars and Bars", conveighs little if any of the knee-jerk racism 
connotation to modern Americans. If the Virgina National Guard feels that 
the 4-year period between 1861-1865 was their proudest moment (as opposed
to, say, the War for Independance) it would seem that the "national" flag they
served under would be as appropriate as a battle flag.

-----------------------------------
P. L. Cowan	COWAN@ANL.GOV

Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: cmh@shemesh.larc.nasa.gov (C. Michael Holloway)
Subject: Re: News Item
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center ISD/SVMB
	<1992Jul27.201943.534@NOC.Vitalink.COM>
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 12:47:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.201943.534@NOC.Vitalink.COM>
<roy_wells@qm.vitalink.com> (Roy Wells) writes: 

rw> I'm just curious.  Has anyone seen this emblem?  Is it really the "Stars
rw> and Bars" or is it the Confederate Battle Flag (the Southern Cross) that
rw> the press always *calls* the "Stars and Bars."

The picture that appeared in the local (Hampton, Virginia) paper showed an
eagle (I think) over top of something resembling a confederate battle flag.
I say ``resembling'' because at first glance, I doubt most people would
associate the flag in the background of the insignia with the confederate
battle flag, unless they were told in advance that that is what it was.
Anyway, the flag is certainly not the stars and bars.

--
=================================================================
C. Michael Holloway               Email: cmh@air16.larc.nasa.gov
NASA Langley Research Center      Fax:   1 804 864 4234
System Validation Methods Branch  Voice: 1 804 864 1701
1 South Wright St./MS 130         Verse: Isaiah 40:12-31
Hampton VA 23665-5225
From: jsanders@phys.ksu.edu (Justin M. Sanders)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Confederate Flags
Date: 30 Jul 1992 21:21:40 GMT
Organization: Department of Physics, Kansas State University, Manhattan KS, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bohr.phys.ksu.edu

In article <1992Jul30.183056.22331@leland.Stanford.EDU> whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt) writes:
[ASCII pics of Confed Battle Flag and Stars and Bars deleted]
>i May have the pattern of stars wrong on the Stars and Bars. :(  The
>center stripe is white and the outer two stripes are red.

Chuck Ten Brink has since pointed out that the arrangement of 
stars on the S&B was a circle.  He refers to the picture in the
Official Atlast to give the number of stars as eleven.  tHE
number of stars probably changed, but the S&B's I'm familiar with
had only seven stars in the circle (for the 7 original C.S. states).
In particular, the famous picture of Ft. Sumter after the Confeds. had
captured it has a S&B flying in it in which the 7 stars are visible--
this would be before the upper south states had joined the CSA.
Has anyone actually seen a S&B with eleven stars?  (Properly, it would
have 13 stars since the CSA recognized MO. and KY as Confed States).

Stephen says he hearS
>APOcraphally that actually the several armies each adopted different
>battle flags and that the one shown is that adopted by the Army of Northern
>vIRginia, which later caught on with the other armies.

Yes, that is correct.  After 1st Manassas, Gens. Beauregard and Johnston
came up with a design for the ANV which then was used by other armies.
Properly, the Confederate Battle Flag is square, not oblong.
--
Justin M. Sanders    "The world was made for people who aren't 
Dept. of Physics         cursed with self-awareness."
Kansas State Univ.            -- Annie Savoy in "Bull Durham"
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: <roy_wells@qm.vitalink.com> (<roy_wells@qm.vitalink.com>)
Subject: Re: Confederate Flags
Reply-To: <roy_wells@qm.vitalink.com> (<roy_wells@qm.vitalink.com>)
Organization: Never Never Land
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:36:47 GMT
Path: nocsun.NOC.Vitalink.COM!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!lll-
winken!bu.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-
state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!mcs.kent.edu!Amber.mcs.kent.edu!ben
nett
From: bennett@Amber.mcs.kent.edu (Dan Bennett)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Confederate Flags
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:44:42 GMT
Organization: Kent State University

bennett@mcs.kent.edu asks:

>Once again, my ignorance shows through.  Would some kind sole please tell
>me which flag looks like this?

>        +-----------+
>        |\*\     /*/|
>        | \*\   /*/ |
>        |  \*\ /*/  |
>        |   \*V*/   |
>        |    \*/    |
>        |    /*\    |
>        |   /*^*\   |
>        |  /*/ \*\  |
>        | /*/   \*\ |
>        |/*/     \*\|
>        +-----------+
 
That would be the Confederate battle flag, also called the Southern Cross.

----
"A man who carrys a cat by the tail is getting experience that will always be helpful.  He isn't likely to grow dim or doubtful.  Chances are, he isn't likely to carry the cat that way again, either.  But if he wants to, I say let him!" 
--Mark Twain
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Looking for copy of PBS video The Civil War
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:53:55 GMT
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <15bmtlINNgpj@network.ucsd.edu> pete@chem.ucsd.edu writes:

> I would likt to get a copy of the series, The Civil War, that ran on
> PBS a few years ago.  If anyone has it, and wants to sell it, or would
> be willing to copy it for me, I am willing to pay for the tapes plus
> any shipping costs.  Thanks
> 
> Peter Wotruba
> (pwotruba@ucsd.edu)

  I have seen copies of the series at several video-rental stores.  You may
wish to check around with them.

Jim Miller
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: cjt1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Charles Ten Brink)
Subject: Re: Confederate Flags
Reply-To: cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:47:01 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.183056.22331@leland.Stanford.EDU> whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.124442.4184@mcs.kent.edu> bennett@Amber.mcs.kent.edu (Dan Bennett) writes:
>>Once again, my ignorance shows through.  Would some kind sole please tell
>>me which flag looks like this?
>
>         +-----------+			+-----------+
>         |\*\     /*/|			|   |   *   |
>         | \*\   /*/ |			|   | *   * |
>         |  \*\ /*/  |			|   | * * * |
>drawn    |   \*V*/   |			|   | *   * |
>by   ->  |    \*/    |		added	|   |   *   |
>Dan      |    /*\    |		by  ->	|   +-------|
>         |   /*^*\   |		me	|   |   |   |
>         |  /*/ \*\  |			|   |   |   |
>         | /*/   \*\ |			|   |   |   |			
>         |/*/     \*\|			|   |   |   |
>         +-----------+			+-----------+
>
>
>	Confederate Battle		Stars and Bars
>	      Flag
>
>I may have the pattern of stars wrong on the Stars and Bars. :(  The
>center stripe is white and the outer two stripes are red.

Close; there is no star in the middle, just an open circle of 9 stars.

>The Stars and Bars and similar variations was the Confederate national
>flag for most of the war. However, in battle they found that it looked
>too much like the US flag to serve for identification purposes, so they
>shifted to the Battle Flag which was more distinctive.

The Confederate congress tried to cure this problem in 1863, and came
up with the "Stainless Banner".  It was pure white, with a replica
of the battle flag in the field.  The armies didn't like this either,
because all that white looked too much like a flag of truce.  At the
eleventh hour, March of 1865, the Confederate Congress added a vertical
bar of red to the outer edge of the flag, but there wasn't much time
for that version to get used.

I'm relying on the illustrations in the Official Atlas for this info.
--Chuck Ten Brink




-- 
Bitnet:                 uclcjt1@uchimvs1
Internet:         cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: renge@halcyon.com (Robert Hilton)
Subject: Re: ....gee.......
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:40:43 GMT

pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander) writes:

>In article <gkq7NB1w164w@netlink.cts.com> galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross) writes:
>>[re the PBS television series "The Civil War" produced by Ken Burns]
>>
>>pdunn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick L Dunn) writes:
>>
>> (Deleted)
>>> 
>>> Also, almost every general except for Grant and Lee is described as either
>>> incompetent (northern gens) or "ruthless killers" (southern).
>>
>>Let's face it, a lot of the Northern generals *were* incompetent, although I 
>>think many of the histories have glossed over the incompetence of some of 
>>the Southern generals. As for the "ruthless killers" bit, I found little 
>>evidence of that in the Burns series, except for the recounting Nathan 
>>Bedford Forrest -- and frankly, he *was* a ruthless killer.

>The South had its share of less than brilliant generals.  Beauregard wasn't
>the reincarnation of Napoleon, and neither was Macgruder.  (G. W.?) Smith was
>practically paralysed on the Peninsula in 1862.

It's not surprising that BOTH sides had a lot of incompetant generals;
this being the era of 'Political Appointment Generals'; though both
Grant, Sherman and Logan came from those initial general officer
appointments.  And of course, we had the two generals who were senior to
Buckner at Fort Henry, and probably Johnson and the Southern command
were kicking themselves for the rest of the war for sticking those two
there.  

>_Lee's Lieutenants_ made the point that a number of very promising colonels
>and brigadier generals were killed or too badly wounded to continue in the
>service, thus never reaching the highest commands.  That's true in the Union
>forces, too.  Look at Reynolds, offered command of the Army of the Potomac
>(he turned the job down) and killed early in the fighting at Gettysberg.

Didn't Lee have an unofficial policy for the Army of Virginia that he
didn't want officers w/o experience in his commands above the regimental
level?  If this is true, that sure explains some of the greater tactical
competence of Lee's army.

>As for ruthless killers, seems to me that Sherman was just as ruthless as
>any southern general.

>What about General "Beast" Butler?  I vaguely remember he got his nickname 
>for threatening to lock up some southern ladies in New Orleans.  I believe 
>he was corrupt and a poor battlefield general, but was he responsible for
>any atrocities?

Not 'atrocities' per se... Not like Sherman going through cities and
burning them to the ground... repression most likely I would guess.

>Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu
>Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.


					Robert Hilton
					renge@halcyon.com

Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: <roy_wells@qm.vitalink.com> (<roy_wells@qm.vitalink.com>)
Subject: Re: Reenactors
Reply-To: <roy_wells@qm.vitalink.com> (<roy_wells@qm.vitalink.com>)
Organization: Never Never Land
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:44:30 GMT

 pdunn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick L Dunn) asks:

>While we are on the subjest of living history and reenacting, does anybody have
>a list of units that they could post to the bboard?

One of the problems is that CW reenactors are not well organized nation-wide.  
For example, in many areas the entire club is a single regiment or company, 
whereas here in California, we have a single club with many constituent units.

We also have the unfortunate name "National" Civil War Association, when we
are, in fact, only a Northern California organization.

Anyway, here's a list of the units we have recreated (Company designations 
given for those I know).

 National Civil War Association (Northern California)
Constituent Units

UNION BATTALION
1st United States Sharpshooters, Co. C
4th United States Colored Troops
14th Indiana Infantry
69th New York Infantry, Co. A
71st Pennsylvania Infantry
79th New York Infantry
2nd Massachusetts Cavalry, Co. A
7th Michigan Cavalry, Co. F
3rd United States Artillery, Battery L & M
United States Medical Service
United States Sanitary Commission

CIVILIAN CORPS

CONFEDERATE BATTALION
1st Virginia Infantry, Co. H
5th Texas Infantry
7th Virginia Infantry
14th Tennessee Infantry
1st Virginia Cavalry
9th Virginia Cavalry
Norfolk Light Artillery Blues
James River Squadron
1st Company, South Carolina Sharpshooters
15th Alabama Regimental Hospital

The NCWA has about 1,200 members and conducts approximately 1 reenactment
per month from Mar-Nov.  We are incorporated as a non-profit, educational 
organization under the provisions of the tax code known as 501 (c) (3), meaning 
our organization is elligible to received deductible donations.

--Sgt. Roy Wells, 3rd US Artillery, NCWA 

----
"A man who carrys a cat by the tail is getting experience that will always be helpful.  He isn't likely to grow dim or doubtful.  Chances are, he isn't likely to carry the cat that way again, either.  But if he wants to, I say let him!" 
--Mark Twain
From: jeromema@cc.uvcc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Reenactors
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:37:49 GMT
Organization: Utah Valley Community College

In article <5406@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu>, tecump@ucsb.edu (Dal Bello) writes:
> jeromema@cc.uvcc.edu writes:
> 
>> Hello to a fellow re-enactor.
>> I wonder how many on the group are reenaactors?
> 
> 
> -Dom Dal Bello
>  Capt., com'd'g Fed. Inf'y Bttln.
>  Ft. Tejon Hist. Assoc., 
>  Ft. Tejon, California
>
Hello Dom,

This is great stuff.  I am having an enjoyable time finding new
ACW re-enactors.  I have been corresponding on the mail utility
with three other fellow re-enactors.

    Jeff Zurschmeide: zursch@whizkid.xorp.sgi.com
    Roy Wells: roy_wells@qm.vitalink.com
    Charles Ten Brink: cjt1@ellis.uchicago.edu

Anybody else, plesae chime in....what a group...I like it.

Find a re-enactor and you'll a find a "LIVING" history buff.
What a brotherhood...

Marc 
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: petersgj@cis9.b10.ingr.com (Gary J. Peters)
Subject: Ben Butler (was .....gee.....)
Keywords: Butler, Grant
Organization: Intergraph Corp., Huntsville, AL
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:32:20 GMT


>In article <1992Jul21.162903.13491@news.iastate.edu>, Paul J Hollander writes:
>>What about General "Beast" Butler?  I vaguely remember he got his nickname 
>>for threatening to lock up some southern ladies in New Orleans.  I believe 
>>he was corrupt and a poor battlefield general, but was he responsible for
>>any atrocities?
>
>Before you go villifying old Ben Butler, check out his performance later in the 
>war on the east coast. (He held some seaboard territory...) I'm not real familiar
>with the history of it, but my recollection is that he did a very good job.
>
>JZ

Butler commanded the Army of the James (I think it was called.).  I don't
recall that much, good or bad, about Butler's command there.  Grant ended
up releiving Butler for several reasons.  First I don't beleive Grant thought
very highly of his military ability.  Second, Grant knew the troops (in
Meade's and Sheridan's commands) didn't have any confidence in Butler.
And Butler was the ranking general in the theater when Grant was away.
He outranked both Meade and Sheridan.  Grant simply had more confidence in
these two officers.

Gary Peters
Intergraph Corporation
Huntsville, Alabama USA
From: rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Civil War Pictures, anyone?
Date: 27 Jul 1992 23:47:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.220714.3781@odin.corp.sgi.com>, zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) writes:
> Hey, it just occurred to me that some/many of you may be interested
> in some of the pictures I have of CW personages....
> 
> I have 11 pictures that I can post to this
> group or mail to you individually, if there is interest. I have:

Please DO NOT post them to this group. If you must post them, use
alt.binaries.pictures.misc and then post something here indicating where to
look. It is considered very impolite to post binaries [which includes GIF's]
to a non-binary news group. Many sites are limited in disk space and assume
non-text articles will not appear in a text group. 
-- 
Richard H. Miller                 Email: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
Asst. Dir. for Technical Support  Voice: (713)798-3532
Baylor College of Medicine        US Mail: One Baylor Plaza, 302H
                                           Houston, Texas 77030
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: cjt1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Charles Ten Brink)
Subject: Re: News Item
Reply-To: cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:58:30 GMT

In article <16831DFF5.M20614@mwvm.mitre.org> M20614@mwvm.mitre.org (Hugh Pritchard) writes:
>  --  In my personal opinion, Confederate flags (Stars & Bars, etc.) represent
>      regional pride in many of the ideals of the Confederacy (spunkiness,
>      self-sufficiency, independence, etc.).  It's understandable to be proud
>      of such things.
>  --  However, those flags also stood for a system which relied on
>      labor-intensive agriculture almost exclusively for its existence:
>      Slavery.  The symbolism of the Confederate flag was tainted with stains
>      of arrogance and bigotry right from the birth of the Confederacy.
> 
>Pollution makes even an otherwise clear, cool mountain spring undrinkable.
> 
I'm sorry, but I just can't accept this metaphor.  There is no group
whose past is so pristine that it wouldn't offend anyone.  If we were
to listen to all those who have grievances against the US government,
we'd have to tear down Washington.  At some level there has to be a
balancing between the good and evil associated with a symbol.  I think
the flag of Nazi Germany pretty clearly tips the balance on the side of
evil, and is rightly shunned.  I don't think the Confederate flag, 
whether the Stars and Bars, the Battle Flag, or the Stainless Banner, 
even comes close.
--Chuck


-- 
Bitnet:                 uclcjt1@uchimvs1
Internet:         cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu