HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Requia
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:59:17 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <CB.92Dec14103326@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>Dave LaDelfa writes:
>
>   John Rutter is a contemporary (meaning still alive and writing) 
>   composer who writes and records music that is easy to enjoy from
>   listening number one, and is therefore looked down upon as an
>   unsophisticated hack by modernist composers and music critics. His 
>   Requiem is pretty and catchy without being soppy or banal (I think);
>   I have to admit it's a cheap thrill, especially compared to the
>   War Requiem, but it's a good cheap thrill and it seems to get
>   better with repeated listenings. By the way, if you like the 
>   Requiem, check out Rutter's Magnificat. It rocks.
>
>   I ought to mention Andrew Lloyd Webber's "Requiem," ...
>
>It's appropriate to mention ALW right after Rutter.  Although Rutter is
>just fine as a conductor, his composition falls into the same
>simplistic, easy effects as Webber's.  Their prettiness is empty, their
>catchiness is cheap, and the whole thing *is* soppy and banal.  This is
>the general cultural effect that I associate with the Reagan era; maybe
>Thatcher had the same effect over there.
>
>Chris Brewster
>cb@cray.com

The problem is not that Rutter is not a *skilled* composer (which he is)
but that he seems to deliberately follow what appears to be the
"most commercial common denominator" rather than applying his craft
to its most creative capabilities (be that conservative in musical
language or on the fringes).  Too much outside of Rutter's genuine
lyrical gift is either unabashedly stolen or well-polished formulaic
composing.  His best work is most likely not found in his most
popular works (which I can say for the most part is true of many
composers, including myself).
  I think less of Rutter as a conductor than you do Chris, most likely
because of a difference of choral aesthetic (a difference which is
not the same as my differences with the main-line American
full-vibratoed aesthethic).
  I do recognize that Rutter has both skill and craft as a composer;
but I don't care for his application of those abilities.  There are,
unfortunately, many more composers with far less skill and craft
than Rutter who pump out reams of schlocky music that publishers
promote heavily to American schools and churches, almost all of
it makes Rutter look light years ahead of them by comparison.
  You must realize that Rutter has the respect of other English
composers/arrangers whose market is the American institutional
music field and the "semi-pop" market.  But the general public
in America knows Rutter far more than the public in England.
America is his market...without question.
  But if you want to see something other than Rutter's work
appreciated and performed here, you have to participate in
discovering those composers and promoting them.

Cheers,

--Mark Gresham
dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu
=====


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Subject: Re: composers who were not ke
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Distribution: rec
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:06:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.4216.25124@dosgate> Alexander Inglis writes:
>Surely the answer is simpler than that. Composers tend toward the
>keyboard because of the contrapuntal possiblities. Certainly Bach, and a
>small number of others since, have shown Great Music can be written for
>a non-keyboard solo instrument using various "sleights of hand" -- the
>Bach solo suites for violin, cello and even flute demonstrate that. But
>being a composer and only managing to play the oboe seems far too
>limiting. One needs a keyboard to be able to work out multiple voices,
>let alone multiple, simultaneous instruments.

The point was simply that *if* one wants to write for solo instrument
(and there are practical reasons for this, as I said), the keyboard is
the most popular for this purpose -- at least partly for the contrapuntal
possibilities.  However, one does not need a keyboard to work out
multiple voices.  In fact, one might become so preoccupied with chordal
figures and keyboard color that one could no longer write a decent line.
Examples in the romantic literature are left as an exercise.

T. M. McComb

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( )
Subject: Re: consensus on 2nd greatest opera [?]
Organization: Brandeis University Math Department
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:47:54 GMT

In article <Bz9yvD.JGK@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> smitra@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Sami Mitra) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.234459.25915@news.cs.brandeis.edu> jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( ) writes:
>>1. i was wondering if there was a consensus on what the 2nd greatest
>>   opera was.
> there is 
>>   such a consensus as to what the greatest opera is, namely that it is
>>   mozart's "don giovanni", and i do confess that among all the operas
>>   *that i know* it is my favorite)
>>
>
>Yet another thread that is altogether too subjective. I
>certainly am not going to claim that Don Giovanni is *the
>greatest* opera! I shall also not want to go out on a limb
>and claim that my favourite operas are to be labelled the 
>greatest. Such threads, I believe, should have their
>subjects rephrased and their assumptions made less rigid:-)
>
>				Sami Mitra

oy vey!!!

yeah, especially when one somewhat edits postings one follows up to :-)

i believe i wrote i "was under the _impression_" there was such a consensus...
not that "there is" such a consensus like your answer implies.

a consensus is a statistical concept i would say. so the statement that
there is some consensus on a question can be falsified (take a poll) i don't
see anything subjective about that concept at all. also my belief that
there is such a consensus is not subjective (at least not in the same way
that my liking don giovanni is), it might be correct or not correct.
(incidentally you have done nothing to show that it was either way...)

furthermore the fact that it is a favorite of mine has nothing to do with
the fact that i believe such a consensus exist. (you can choose to believe
me, or believe i'm lying or believe i'm delluding myself) i believe that
such a consensus exist based on a many statements made by many different
persons which i believe were a decent representative sample. 

i also believe that the converse is also false, although that is much
more open to discussion i'd admit.

i could go on explaining why i'm interested in knowing whether there is
a consensus over the 2nd greatest opera (like i believe there exists one
on the 1st greatest one) but why bother, i doubt you're interested.

finally, the subject line was ambiguous only to the following extent:
it is not clear whether i'm asking whether people believe such a consensus
exists or whether i'm taking a poll. it is the former. (but i also believe
that very often when there is a consensus over whether there is a consensus,
well... there is such a consensus, because people base there opinion on many
private micro-polls)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gustavo@dent.uchicago.edu (Gustavo Comezana)
Subject: Re: Requia
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, U. of Chicago
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:47:52 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.184034.8975@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:
>In article <CB.92Dec14105132@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>>
>>I didn't study Latin but my wife did.  We agreed that more than one
>>kleenex would be several kleenices, and she informed me that more than
>>one thermos would be several thermores.  I want to get these things right.
>     ^^^^^
>But the word being Greek in origin, shouldn't we say thermoi? :-)
>
>A French humorist used to make fun of such pedantry by suggesting 
>that the plural of "autobus" (or bus in English) should be autobi.
>
>Follow-ups to comp.language.latin and alt.fan.cicero
>
>-- 
>
>	Francois Velde
>


Sorry, but my site doesn't carry alt.fan.cicero. However, you may be
interested to know that your wise-ass humorist was simply making a
fool of himself by displaying his total ignorance. Autobus a word of
rather strange pedigree, deriving as it does from the Latin "omnibus"
(which is a form that has survived in several dialectal forms of
Spanish) and the Greek root "auto" (which means, roughly, "self", but
in this context, is merely the first half of "automobile", another
bizarre hybrid).  Anyway, "omnibus" (which means "for everybody",
conveying the significance of the term in the sense of "public
transportation" quite accurately) is already in plural, being the
ablative plural of "omnes". In any case, it is easy to see that
whoever first introduced the term "autobus" was far from a language
purist...

Sorry about the pedantry, but I couldn't resist :-).

                                             G.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Subject: interesting phenomenon
Reply-To: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 13 Dec 92 13:41:15 EST

K>I've been listening to quite a bit of modern classical music as of
 >late--the first time I ever really got into it in my life. One
 >interesting side effect of all this listening is that: more and more
 >when I'm just sitting doing some work and NOT listening to music, all of a
 >sudden I find the ambient sounds around me are somehow working together
 >and producing "music," which is almost as pleasurable an experience as
 >if I put some Bartok or Stravinsky on the CD player. I guess my brain
 >is becoming tuned to appreciate odd and--I don't have the correct
 >terminology to describe this--exotic tempos, syncopations etc., as well
 >as "atonal" (correct word?) pitches and so forth; a sudden
 >repetition of phrases is no longer a requirement for me to
 >consider a sound "music." For instance, just before I posted this--in
 >fact, what posted me to prompt--was that I was listening to a
 >combination of the whir of my computer's hard drive, which seemed to be
 >punctuated by the sounds of someone shoveling snow from outside my
 >house, with the sounds of water dripping in the bathroom also thrown in
 >there as another "voice."

You might want to check out the writings and compositions of Canadian
composer R Murray Schaeffer. He has done a great deal of work in trying
to find "music in the ambiance". He's also brought music to the
environment, as it were: I seem recall something about a lot of brass
players floating around on a barge in the middle of an Ontario lake.

I have to admit Schaeffer is NOT my cup of tea. Come to think of it, he
wrote some accordion music some years back that made the round of the
New Music Concert crowds. Schaeffer has tended to create works based on
pretentious premises, IMHO. He has often resorted to effects for
effect's sake. At a recent concert of his latest string quartet, the
group was required to sit with lighted candle stands beside them and
clink hand cymbals.

His string quartet repertoire, five works I think, has been issued on CD
by the Canadian Music Centre, here in Toronto. I think Albany Records
distributes them in the US and Europe.

It's my impression he's mellowed during the late 1980s. His music seems
more approachable, less tediously contrived effects but still not
exactly memorable. He also an acknowledged Ezra Pound scholar (!).

Alexander Inglis  |  InterNet: alexander.inglis@canrem.com
Toronto,  Canada  |  CompuServe: 70307,20     BIX: ainglis
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: greatest conductors
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:54:55 GMT

graziano@ravel.udel.edu (Lisa Marie Graziano) writes:
: 
: I know they're not all still alive, but heres some of my favorites:
: Furtwangler (for Brahms, esp)
: Szell
: Ormandy 
: Solti
: Bernstein

Furtwaengler also for Beethoven and Bruckner. Mengelberg, Walter,
Klemperer, Weingartner, Horenstein.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Subject: news: pavarotti booed out
Reply-To: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:27:01 EST

DHM>In article <w0PqVB1w165w#midiline.la.ca.us> pattisan@midiline.la.ca.us (Pat
   >>...In EUROPE they want things right and if you don't do
   >>so you get booed!...remember MOST of the audience knows the opera,aria,etc
   >>just as well as the performer. They are mostly frustrated singers and are 
   >>waiting for the performer to make a mistake.

DHM>>  In europe if you don't show your distain, it is considered that you acce
   >>the performance whether you clap or not.
   >>
   >Amazing as it may seem, Europe is composed of several countries (and of
   >different regions within these countries - or even, as in the UK,
   >different nations within countries! but that's another problem).

DHM>So EUROPE is far from being a homogeneous mass. We all
   >act differently in different places. La Scala is in Italy; at La Scala it
   >is traditional to boo. It is very rare to hear any performance boo-ed in
   >Edinburgh - but then again, it is very rare to see a standing ovation.

DHM>The Scots are very reserved; the Italians are not.

DHM><Sorry folks, but we've just had a large European summit here in Edinburgh
   > and Patti's posting didn't ring too true.
   > End of social anthropology/geography lesson>

I can relate to that: Toronto has a rich Scottish heritage. Being
reserved is practically tatooted onto our (covered) arms.

The great Peter Ustinov once described Toronto as "New York, if it had
been built by the Swiss" -- cosmopolitan, yes, but *very* tidy!

Alexander Inglis  |  InterNet: alexander.inglis@canrem.com
Toronto,  Canada  |  CompuServe: 70307,20     BIX: ainglis
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ext@wam.umd.edu (Eugene Zhu Xia)
Subject: Re: St. Matthew Passion
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:25:56 GMT


One of my all time favorate.  I think I like it even better
than Parsifal.  Mine is, of course, by Gardner on period 
instruments (Archive).

Eugene
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Schirmer, Chopin, Mikuli, and Horowitz...
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:06:43 GMT

In article <BzEAIB.5z4@cs.columbia.edu> tait@cs.columbia.edu (Carl Tait) writes:
>In article <71883@cup.portal.com> Bill_P_Pearce@cup.portal.com writes:
>>There are a number of Chopin editions, one of the best being
>>the Polish Chopin Institute edition [...]

>Just a point of clarification: Bill and I are recommending the same
>edition (good taste, Bill).  The "Paderewski Edition" goes by several
>names: Paderewski, Fryderyk Chopin Institute, Polish Music Publications,
>and even PWM (Polskie Wydawnictwo Muzyczne).  They're all the same thing.
>The editors are Paderewski, Bronarski, and Turczynski.

And its problems are legion, I'm afraid.  Do *not* trust this edition;
much research has been done since then.  Hold out for one of the more
recent ones.  (Info courtesy of Prof. Jeff Kallberg @ Penn, who taught
me all I know -- see this thimble? -- about the problems of Chopin
editing.)  There are better editions appearing nowadays; I'll get back
with infor about them.

R
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:19:52 GMT

In article <1gnii7INNibh@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) writes:
>
>What is YOUR favorite ending or finale to a classical piece?
>

Does this mean I only get 1. [8-(]  If so, I'd have to
go with "Das Lied von der Erde", but's it's awfully close.

John D.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: johnme@ecs.comm.mot.com (John Meyer)
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Organization: pcb_design
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:30:06 GMT

In article <1gof84INNhbi@menudo.uh.edu> chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU writes:
>[...]
>>>
>>>What is YOUR favorite ending or finale to a classical piece?
>>>
>
>1) The third movement of 4'33" 
>2) The second movement of 4'33" 
>3) The first movement of 4'33"              ;=)
>
>

    Yes 4'33 is the best,because all movments are played at the same time from start to finish!
       What a colossal achievement.Sounds best when played by very large orchestra!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis)
Subject: Urban legends (was: score reading)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:43:53 GMT

I am reminded of the apocryphal story of the young conductor who wanted to 
impress the orchestra.  It seems that he wrote a false F# into a second basson 
part.  At the next rehearsal, he stopped the orchestra at the appropriate 
place, yelling "No! No! That should be an F natural in the second bassoon".  
The first bassoon then told him that the second had the flu and was home in bed
that day......
-- 
*>   Michael J. Valinis   -=+<*>+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   <*
*>=>  "Music is your own experience, your thoughts, your wisdom. If you  <=<*
*>+>=> don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." -Charlie Parker <=<+<*
*>=>+>=>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<=<+<=<*
From: zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Greatest living pianist(s with a recording contract)
Date: 14 Dec 92 02:56:30 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Steve Apter (apter@fid.morgan.com) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec9.194100.14100@visual.com> rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel) writes:
: >Deryk Barker writes:
: >
: >> If you want to argue about who the greatest living
: >>pianist is, I'll nominate Sviatoslav Richter.
: >
: >Agreed.
: >
: >
: >
: 
: Michelangeli, Joao Carlos Martins, Marc-Andre Hamelin, 
: Afanassiev, Ronald Stevenson, Jeffrey Swann, Alice Ader,
: Batagov:  I'll listen to anything they commit to disk.
: 
: 
: (Who am I forgetting?)
: 
Chrystian Zimerman?  :-)


John
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Subject: Lost masterpieces and non-masterpieces
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:51:18 GMT

In the masterpiece category: Ockeghem's 19-part canon

In the non-masterpiece category: Where did the orchestral parts for 
Debussy's Le Gladiateur go? (I know this is a bit obscure, but if anyone 
happens to know, please let ME know. Did his stepdaughter Dolly Tinan 
inherit them or were they destroyed?)

r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Subject: Re: Mahler novice
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:02:54 GMT
Distribution: rec

In article <1gi1bhINN8en@corax.udac.uu.se> mgn@csd.uu.se (Magnus Nordin) writes:
>I'm curious about Mahler and have decided to start listening to his
>symphonies. My question is: which symphonies to buy and which
>conductor(s)?
>

It would be easier to respond to this if you mentioned what types 
of music you're fond of now.  Mahler's not a composer who has one 
or two definitive works that offer the ideal introduction.  
Certainly, (as we learned recently) no concensus exists on what
listeners favorite Mahler symphony is.

But, I'll try.   The easiest to listen to are:
#1  (I recommend Walter/Columbia Symphony Orchestra - CBS/Sony)
#4  (either Salonen with LA Phil and B. Hendricks, 
     or Maazel with Vienna Phil and K. Battle 
     - I think both of these are Sony)
#5  (Barbirolli - EMI)

Of these, I'd recommend four first because of the gorgeous 4th movement.

If you are a fan of choral music, you may want to try:
#2   (Coupled with Walter's #1 - may make a good intro 
      at budget prices.)
#8   The Symphony of a Thousand in two sections.  The first is a massive
     religious text.  The second section is a setting of Goethe's Faust.

In the end if you do enjoy Mahler you'll probably want recordings of
all 10 symphonies and the fragment of #10.

John D.

Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: V078PZ5Z@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
Subject: possum
Reply-To: V078PZ5Z@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:00:34 GMT

I was watching Letterman the other night and one of the viewer mail
letters read something like "Dear Dave, Did you know that the word
'possum' means 'I can' in latin".

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...........

                                     matt
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: provost@CS.ColoState.EDU (peter provost)
Subject: PostScript Tape Labels
Originator: provost@CS.ColoState.EDU
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:48:52 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department


Hello out there!

I was checking out the ftp site and found two PostScript Labels for
shows. 6-MAR-92 and 7-MAAR-92. Does anyone out there have a program that
makes these wonderful labels? Please post this info as everyone should
have these.

-- 
/-----------------------------------------------\
| Peter Provost - Colorado State University     |
| phone - (303) 221-3282			|
|  provost@cs.colostate.edu			|
| Legalize It!!					|
+-----------------------------------------------+
| Pardon me Doug,				|
| Is this a picture of Otis Redding? 		|
\-----------------------------------------------/

        _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/
       _/    _/  _/    _/ _/    _/
      _/    _/  _/       _/    _/
     _/_/_/_/  _/  _/_/ _/_/_/_/
    _/        _/    _/ _/
   _/        _/_/_/_/ _/
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: SCA7477@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
Subject: penile erectors
Reply-To: SCA7477@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:04:03 GMT

yes, peter, the original version of the song was with "penile erector"
as the lyric - but i take it they got tired of singing that and they 
also had this album coming out with the conveniently rhyming title 
of"pitcher of nectar"....so the lyrics got switched and sadly, they
haven't played the original version for a year or two (last i recall
hearing it that way is probably two years ago and any bootleg you 
have from before that probably has "penile erector" as the lyric).
gosh, was that really all one run on sentence!!!!yikes!
HAPPY FINALS TAKING ALL!!  -chris
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish