HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: malenovi@plains.NoDak.edu (Malenovic Nikola V.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Canada's voice in Bosnia Conflict (General Lewis MacKenzie)
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:32:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.20135
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


In article <1992Sep3.173444.23606@ohrd.uucp> ohrd!rdowlati@cs.toronto.edu (Ramin Dowlati) writes:
 >In article <1992Aug31.140137.24851@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
 >>
 >>The UN troops in Sarajevio have little more than machine guns...I'd 
 >>like to see you volunteer to race up mountains to take out artillery
 >>positions with little more than a machine gun.  The UN troops in
 >>Sarajevo are essentially unarmed...they could be captured relatively
 >>easily by either side.  The purpose of the UN force in Sarajevo was
 >>to open up the airport to bring in relief supplies so fewer people
 >>would die...not to stop the war, or to take sides in the war.
 >>
 >I guess this means that machine guns are sufficient for keeping the
 >airport open while it's being shelled by mortars and cannons?
 >
 >-Cheers

NO! What is needed is political solution. On the other hand we know who is
even refusing to talk... ah yes should I mention that the 'reasons' for such
refusal are becuase Gen.McKenzie (and others UN officials/mediators) treat
all parties as equal in the negotiations... well what can I say, Serbs
should maybe kill themself or become second class citizens and negotiate as
un-equals, and then justice is served.... (those who cannot detect sarcasm
in this can take SARC 101 - Intro to sarcasm....)

Nik
--
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8438 soc.culture.greek:8353 soc.culture.europe:8026 talk.politics.misc:43299
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: 'MUTLU The Pornographer' and procreation.
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:22:04 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) drones endlessly:

 [Multu wire howling deleted]

Can it be that Mutlu, the notorious Usenet Pornographer, was so taken by
Cosar's porno gifs, that he has gone out and practised unsafe sex, resulting
in a little cuddly Mutlu Mk2 called Serdar Argic?

...or has he just 'pursuaded' this individual to let him 'borrow' his account?

What are you whining about now Mutlu?

>>On the other hand, if what David Sternlight says is false, then it leaves the
>>route open to Mutlu to sue him for slander......Hmmmm..

>And he surely will.

And if that should happen, we'll all be sure to look out of our windows and
see another 'Mutlu' rising in the sky over 'Argic'....

..or is it just another eternally unfolding soap-opera from an old and
tired 'Mutlusaurus'?


Dave


>                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
>                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
>                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
>                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'

Hmm...no ellipses this time?
-- 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8479 soc.culture.greek:8441 talk.politics.misc:43665
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Macedonia: History and Reality
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:44:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


>What I see is a politically influential group in the US using their
>power to persuade the administration to not recognize a country.  This

 Yes, we are politically influential, so what? It is definately within
my right as a US citizen to demand that my government do whatever I want
it to do. On the other hand, the US administration has a tradition of
not listening to groups, esp small groups like ours, and to act in what
they feel is the best interest of 'the US of A'(I say this with a bit
of sarcasm in my mind). So, Washington would probably be standing
where it stands regardless of our actions. I would like to think,
though, that all our protests did something.

 Ok, enough about the US of A. How about:

 Afganistan     Algeria         American Samoa          Andorra
 Angola         Anguilla        Antigua                 Argentina
 Aruba          etc             etc                     Uruguay
 Venezuela      Vietnam         W. Samoa                Zimbabwe

(Notice that I did have to skip the letter Y :-)

Anyway, what do all the above mentioned countries (and about 100 others
represented by 'etc etc') have to fear from Greece or Greek political
pressure? If the US and EEC are as dissatisfied with Greece as you want
us to believe, then western pressure is not an issue. Is Zimbabwe afraid
of an uprising of its Greek population? Is Uruguay afraid that its trade
with Greece will drop from $23 annually to $19? Why are all these
countries refusing to recognise "M"? I'm sure that it is not because of
any lack of action from "M", heck, they even went to the aboriginal
government of Australia for recognition! Even the North American
Slinky(r) Fan Club has received requests for recognition from the
republic of "M".

So tell me: If Macedonia's request is so reasonable, why is it that
only 4 nations in the world recognise Macedonia today? Is the whole
world gone mad? Are you the only sane person in the world?

I've been asking this question of everyone who's been posting on behalf
of "M", and NO-ONE has given me an answer yet. Why?

Guys, if you cannot answer the above question, all your other arguments
are moot. Because unless a substantial portion of the world's nations
recognises "M", Greece has won and Skopjie has lost, and everything you
post on this board is simply net.fodder.


Michael.
From: zorro@goofy.apple.com (...the invisible one?)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: RE: newsgroup jugoslavija
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:36:16 GMT
Reply-To: zorro@goofy.apple.com (...the invisible one?)
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

What IS Jugoslavija?
Or rather, what was it? Books have been written about the "failed
experiment", about the great lie of "bratstvo i jedinstvo".
I think they are wrong, and I think that all the south slavic nations
that used to be part of jugoslavija are living a dream. They are living
the dream of the misguided and the fooled, each allowing (for the Nth
time in history) various lunatics of truly Balkan proportions to sway
them with their promises of national pride into forgetting that "the
enemy" has a national pride also, and will die for it just as foolishly
as they will.
The fact of the matter is that as the many empires who claimed the
Balkans as their own appeared, ruled for a while, and then vanished into
history, the Slavic tribes living there adopted different customs,
religions, even languages. The empires used that again and again,
pitting, for example, Serb against Croat. Divide and rule! Fuel their
nationalist fires and watch them burn! Alliances forged, wars faught,
and all we have to show for centuries of bloodshed is another war. The
Brits and the Germans and all the other "civilized" nations have
prospered in the meantime, building empires, industrializing,
colonizing, and doing all those things that builds true power.

The communists saw a solution: make evryone believe in a single unifying
thing (Marx), and they will not fight. The idea was a good one, but
their implementation left much to be desired, and the country stagnated.
So in their hurry to leave communism behind, they left behind the idea
of unity as well. That was when the war started, a war that is the start
of yet another Balkan Cycle, and the empires that have been hovering
like vultures for fifty years can strike again. Germany gets the Croats,
the Muslim brothers get the Bosnians, and ... I guess noone wants the
Serbs, but after they throw out the communists and look up with an open hand..

And, Mr. "zivjela hrvatska", I have to ask you one thing: what good will
it be when the Generals leave but leave nothing behind them? When they
leave and all the effort that went into all the factories and schools
and churches is forever wasted? When they leave and you realize you have
lost so much..
Or maybe they won't leave at all.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8226 soc.culture.greek:7976 soc.culture.europe:7691 eunet.politics:1111
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics
Subject: Re: STOP BULLYING AND INTIMIDATING MACEDONIAN PEOPLE
Date: 23 Aug 92 20:52:00 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

Luben Boyanov (lb@cs.man.ac.uk) writes:
>Open ANY book before from before WWI and even most from before WWII and you
>will be much surprised what nationality and ethnic conscience Macedonian
>considered themselves. A very easy task. Erland (from Sweeden) tried and
>convinced himself

Since I am being used as an "autority", I like to make a clari-
fication: I looked through a couple of big encyclopedias and
noted that none of the pre-WWII works mentioned any distinct
Slavic Macedonian people or language. However, I also mentioned,
I believe, that Encyclopedia Brittanica of 1991 wrote that there 
were no written records of Macedonian before 1790.

So what I said can, and should, not be extended to the above.
I would also like to point out that my little research was not
complete, for instance I didn't read the articles on the Bulgarian
languages.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Life is wonderful when the wonderlife is full
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8423 soc.culture.greek:8319 soc.culture.europe:7998
From: lmk@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Wishful thinking is unproductive, only facts count, "tamtam."
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:25:27 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

Yes, your are absolutely right!  We did enjoy 300 years of slavery under
Ottoman
rule just us much as the other peoples that were enslaved and who kicked your
butts out in the 19th and 20th century.

Cyprus has had a Greek speaking and thinking population since ancient times.
The fact that we were invaded and occupied by Persians, Phoenicians, Egyptians,
Franks, Venetians, Turks and others does not give them any right to claim us in
the 20th century.  The desire to become part of Greece was a genuine wish of
the
Greek majority (72%) of the population of Cyprus.

Whether that desire was good or bad is another story.  The fact, though, that
Turkiye is 40 miles to the north does not give her ANY right to claim Cyprus as
Turkish.  I think that Ecevit, Evren, Gunes (late) and the rest of that clan
compare much better to Saddam.

Loukis Kissonergis
WVU
In article <9208311724.A4574KW@zuma.UUCP>, sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <BtpJ3M.5Mr@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
> ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
> References: <1992Aug28.092402.10441@sunbim.be>
> 
>> Perhaps the phobia of Mr. Konecni is that he is affraid to defend, or to
>> answer the questions raised by people answering his postings.
>> Yep, he is another coward ...
> 
> And you live with an illusion. This is the same mentality which 
> allows Greeks to rationalize that Cyprus is a Greek Island. No 
> history book shows that it ever was. It belonged to the Ottoman 
> Turks 'lock, stock and barrel' for a period of well over 300 years.
> 
> In fact, prior to the Turks' acquisition of it, following
> bloody naval battles with the Venetians in 1570 AD, the
> island of Cyprus belonged, invariably, to several nations:
> The Assyrians, the Sumerians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians,
> the Ottoman Turks, of course in that order, owned it as 
> their territory. But, it has never been the possession
> of the government of Greece - not even for one day -
> in the history of the world. Moreover, Cyprus is located 
> 1500 miles from the Greek mainland, but only 40 miles from 
> Turkiye's southern coastline.
> 
> Saddam Hussein claims that Kuwait was once Iraqi territory 
> and the Greek Cypriot government and the Greek governments 
> think that Cyprus also was once part of the Greek hegemony.
> 
> Those people involved in this grandiose hallucination
> should wake up from their sweet daydreams and confront 
> reality. Wishful thinking is unproductive, only facts count.
> 
> Serdar Argic
> 
>                      'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
>                       We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
>                       serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
>                       then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
>                                                        (Ohanus Appressian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Media and politics (was Re: 'Greece Is Black Sheep Of EC')
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 21:01:14 GMT

In article <rsakella.715110664@p4.cs.man.ac.uk> rsakella@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou) writes:
>cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>
>>>>>  "Greece is Black Sheep of EC," New York Times Says
>>>All reasons behind this and other Greece(orthodox) bashing in media started 
>>>recently are because Greece oppose millitary intervention in Bosnia.
>
>Hmm, very interesting...
>I don't know whether your reasoning is true or not, but it appears to me
>that very often western media are used in order to exercise pressure on 
>countries and to justify already taken political decisions. Personally, 
>I find difficult to understand how the media discover so many things to
>discredit a nation (sometimes characterising it as suffering from paranoia), 
>exactly at the same time that its government has a different opinion... 
>It seems more than a coincidence, doesn't it?
From my humble opinion through long term observation(I am a new junky),
I disagree with you. I would agree with six month ago. 
My explanation for the media to "follow" the government:
   1. Domestically media mostly serve the nation, could be a watch dog for 
     government or any other institutions in a nation;
   2. Internationally media serves nation either by government's manipulation
     of media, or because of the common shared interests(national interests)
     ,or moral value. 

>
>--rizos


Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Time to Get Rid of the Nation-State?
Organization: OSF Research Institute
	<1992Sep2.170113.24965@panix.com>
	<1992Sep3.011205.9837@latcs1.lat.oz.au>
Date: 3 Sep 92 12:02:24

In article <1992Sep3.011205.9837@latcs1.lat.oz.au> jd@latcs2.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:

	   Note also "UN" has no power, if it ever acts it is a
   decision steamrolled through by the "vetoing" states mostly "USA"
   and serves only to give legitimacy to the foreign policies of these
   nations.

You are confused here.  `Veto' is a negative, not a positive power.
Security Council decisions are taken by the five permanent members and
the seven (?) rotating members chosen by the General Assembly, by
majority.  The permanent members have veto power (that is, they can
STOP a decision with a single vote), which has not been used (not even
once, if I'm not mistaken) since the end of the Cold War.  During the
Cold War, the USSR used its veto much more freely than did the US.

	   The "US" constitution is good in theory (perhaps the best) but in
   practise it is circumvented by politicians who are litle more "demagogs".
   In other words an elite class of "wealty and bureaucrats" hijack the
   so called democratic process....

Of course, U.S. democracy is very far from perfect.  Do you claim that
politicians elsewhere are much better?  By the way, what does demagogy
have to do with plutocracy?

	-s

Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8417 soc.culture.greek:8313 soc.culture.europe:7992 talk.politics.misc:43176 soc.culture.bulgaria:1293 soc.culture.turkish:9583
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: 'Greece Is Black Sheep Of EC,' New York Times Says.
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:45:47 GMT





<1992Aug29.154544.2468@ulowell.ulowell.edu>
cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)

>>  "Greece is Black Sheep of EC," New York Times Says

>All reasons behind this and other Greece(orthodox) bashing in media started 
>recently are because Greece oppose millitary intervention in Bosnia.

Your saying it is 'Greece bashing' doesn't change the facts. If you choose 
to correct 'New York Times' on a technical error, that is fine. You cannot 
dismiss its thesis, however, without somehow showing us that what it said 
about Greece is not true. Further, if the fact angers you, then you state 
it without any ambiguity. 


Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: vvrdolja@gumby.Altos.COM (vvrdolja)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Expulsion of Serbs in Croatia
Summary: ISN'T THIS A CHETNIC'S SYMBOL????
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:24:41 GMT
Organization: Altos Computer Systems, San Jose, CA

In article <l8giitINN473@alcor.usc.edu>, draskovi@usc.edu (Zoran Draskovic) writes:
> 
>  oooo  ----------  oooo
> o    o |        | o    o  Informacioni Centar Srpskog Sabora
>      o |        | o       Information Center of the Serbian Council
> o    o |        | o    o
>  oooo  |        |  oooo   Safarikova 7, 11000 Belgrade
> --------        --------
> |                      |  Phone: ++38-11-321-108
> |                      |  Fax: ++38-11-320-156
> |                      |
> --------        --------  Sluzbeno saopstenje za javnost
>  oooo  |        |  oooo
> o    o |        | o    o  Official communique
>      o |        | o
> o    o |        | o    o
>  oooo  ----------  oooo
>  
>


You expect Croats to apologize for something that was done by Ustashe 
50 years ago, and most Croats opposed to. And how about Serbians apologizing
for Chetnic's crimes (nowadays and 50 years ago)? You don't even oppose
them, you support them by posting symbol that reminds croatian people of a
chetnic's tyranny and tortures performed on them? 

I wonder what people from Belgrade who are against the war, think about 
this. This is not the first time that Chetnic's symbols are posted on this 
group, so I challenge peacefull serbians (if they really exist) to take a 
stand and show their protest.

Vesna
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.turkish
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: THE NEW BULLY OF THE BALKANS [ Part 3 from 4 ]
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:26:10 GMT

sk@groo.sunbim.be (Sasa Konecni) writes:

>Parts from : THE NEW BULLY OF THE BALKANS for the benefit of
>the readers who can not access the original( a beautiful piece
>of professional journalism)
>  Noel Malcolm on how Greece's profound neurosis about its own
>identity is the biggest single impediment to any sensible EEC
>policy in the region

 Tsk, Tsk, Tsk!! Profound neurosis of Greeks about their own identity?

 Is this a kind of joke from Sasa? 

 When most of Skopia's neighbors do not accept the existence of a macedonian
 nation, do we really have to read Mr. Malcolm's crap about identities?

>= Sasa Konecni                     e-mail: sk@sunbim.be           =


-- 
---> Panos Tamamidis
     University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.turkish
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: 'Greece Is Black Sheep Of EC,' New York Times Says.
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 15:45:44 GMT

In article <9208271927.A1615VF@anadolu.michigan.com> han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu) writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>  "Greece is Black Sheep of EC," New York Times Says
All reasons behind this and other Greece(orthodox) bashing in media started 
recently are because Greece oppose millitary intervention in Bosnia.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8361 soc.culture.greek:8237 soc.culture.europe:7934 soc.culture.bulgaria:1264 soc.culture.turkish:9521
From: stojanov@husc8.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: WHO'S THE BIGGER NAZI?
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:40:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep3.184037.15349
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Sep3.194913.11137@athena.mit.edu> dmatic@athena.mit.edu (Davor Matic) writes:
>In article <14337@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au>, s902211@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Zoran
>Kalenic) writes:



>I don't mean kill people like you, but maybe cut your tounges and fingers off
>and send you to an orthodox monastary. 

A Tudjman and Pavelic devotee?
No new approaches to the final solution of Serbian question in 
Croatia?   


>
>Reagrds,
>--- Davor
>

Milan N. Stojanovic
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8273 soc.culture.greek:8103 soc.culture.europe:7808 talk.politics.misc:42189 soc.culture.bulgaria:1227 soc.culture.turkish:9408