HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: af905@yfn.ysu.edu (Ed Shanks)
Subject: Re: Pitt's Graffiti
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:28:59 GMT


Bronis Vidugiris writes:
>It is an interesting test of the 1st amendment free speech
>protection, as such things are quite offensive.

Don't responsibilities come hand-in-hand with rights? Doesn't
someone's right to free speech end at the point where it
violates someone else's right not to have to be exposed to
whatever they feel is offensive? 

To put it in another context, does a smoker have the right to
enjoy a cigarette if he/she wants to, or do others have the
right to breathe non-smoke-filled air?  A little common sense
and a little co-operation go a long way.

Well, that's my 2 cents.

-- 
       Ed Shanks      af905@yfn.ysu.edu
       Sr. Firefighter (and lots of other titles, as well!)
       Boardman Fire Dept.    Boardman, Ohio
       "It's not just an adventure, its a job!"
Newsgroups: misc.misc,alt.feminism
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Who speaks for feminism?
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:44:14 GMT
Followup-To: alt.feminism

TJ Wood writes:
> 
> Muffy writes (in soc.feminism):
> 
> >So, this "general perception" of feminism is actually, in my opinion, a
> >creation and tool of the anti-feminists.

...

> In the same vein, who and or what is an "anti-feminist"?  Pat Roberson and
> the people who publish National Review come to my mind, but they might not
> see themselves as anti-feminist.

The general perception of alleged 'anti-feminism' is, in my opinion,
*mostly* a creation and tool of 'the feminists'!  (Well, *some* feminists.)

If a 'feminist' isn't a hard and fast thing, but rather some diffuse thing
how can an 'anti-feminist' be a 'hard' concept?

There is a certain amount of 'reality' to both feminism and anti-feminism,
because you can find people who call themselves 'feminists' and you can
find people who call themselves 'anti-feminists' (*) but it's not really
clear-cut what either means, IMO.

(*) I verified this once upon a time by asking on the net.

Xref: sparky misc.misc:3455 talk.politics.misc:49933 alt.flame:13325
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: misc.misc,talk.politics.misc,alt.flame
Subject: Re: This Time Around, DON'T VOTE !!
Date: 7 Oct 92 04:48:52 GMT
Reply-To: wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us
Distribution: usa
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: cb1048644e1e10071e646a6797ef2355

In article <92.10.05.1@eecs.nwu.edu> Patrick Townson writes:

Some drivel about how he (poor tired old queen that he is) feels so
hopeless and depressed about the political situation in Chicago.  He
then serves the interests of those he is complaining about by
encouraging the rest of us to boycott the elections.

Chicagoland is quite f**ked up in terms of its politics, and certainly
has one of the most corrupt governments in the world, but your distress
does not necessarily apply to the rest of the country.  There are plenty
of places in the USA where the citizens have actually gotten off their
asses and "thrown the bums out" when the system became too corrupt and
graft-ridden to keep the people happy.

This election is extremely critical in several states.  In Oregon and
Colorado the Lesbian and Gay folk are being set up for a fall, and ONLY
the expression of the voters can prevent it from occurring.  And Pat
wants everyone to stay home.

In North Carolina, the do-nothing officials who have made a mockery of
AIDS prevention and anti-hate crime programs in the state (NC withdrew
from a federal victims aid program because the fund insisted on
assisting the victims of gay-bashing! and the responsible official is
running for Attorney General) face some decent opposition from folks who
could make the place a decent place to live.  And Pat wants everyone to
stay home and do nothing.

So Mr Townson, how much are they paying you to encourage folk to let
them have their way?  You, of course, work for some of the fat cat
attorneys who harrass the poor middle-class working stiffs because they
get a month or so behind on the payments for that lemon appliance or
automobile that their friends in Detroit and Washington DC have unloaded
on the complacent public.

And you, so interested in getting people to listen to you, post to
misc.misc (with some rather amateur header hacking to try and avoid the
email flames you so obviously deserve) rather than to the natural groups
for this kind of crap. (alt.flame and alt.peeves)

You keep complaining that the readership of *your* telecom digest group
is growing out of control.  Why don't you post this there,  that would
cut the traffic to practically nil.

Try again, boyo.
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC         [use the maps!]
UUCP: ...duke!wolves!wolfe                            <Standard disclaimers>
Domain: wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us   wolfe%wolves@cs.duke.edu
    Above all, we celebrate.   Celebrate the Circle Statement of Purpose
Newsgroups: misc.misc,alt.feminism
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: Pitt's Graffiti
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:30:02 GMT
Followup-To: alt.feminism

In article <1992Oct15.142859.27306@news.ysu.edu> af905@yfn.ysu.edu (Ed Shanks) writes:
)
)Bronis Vidugiris writes:
)>It is an interesting test of the 1st amendment free speech
)>protection, as such things are quite offensive.

)Don't responsibilities come hand-in-hand with rights? Doesn't
)someone's right to free speech end at the point where it
)violates someone else's right not to have to be exposed to
)whatever they feel is offensive? 
)
)To put it in another context, does a smoker have the right to
)enjoy a cigarette if he/she wants to, or do others have the
)right to breathe non-smoke-filled air?  A little common sense
)and a little co-operation go a long way.
)
)Well, that's my 2 cents.

Note current folowups:

Death wishes, even implied ones that are not directly stated, do come
*very* close to the point where I think official action is warranted
to censor them.

I'd say the Pitt Graffiti qualifies as 'hate speech', similar to any of:
Dead Blacks Don't Steal Watermelons, Dead Homosexuals Don't Spread Aids, or
Dead Women Don't Cry Rape.  And quite a bit more offensive (IMO) than
'No means harder' (a different case from Canada - too long to get into here,
though, if you haven't seen it already.)  Under US laws, that might not be
quite good enough to get it banned.  (Canada is a different story, though -
unfortunately there also seems to be a fair amount of anti-male bias over
there right now which might well cause a 'double standard'.  IMO.)

I certainly think that such speech is offensive and should be discourged,
and I think some research into finding out who exactly posted and financed
the 'Dead Men Don't Rape' stuff and some protests and/or physical
demonstrations against them would definitely be in order.  However, I'm not
convinced what was said would incite imminent lawless violence, or (as in the
smoking case) causes provable harm.

So, I think its close to the edge, but under US law may not be quite over
it.  (It's close enough to the edge where an actual court case might be
in order.).  I certainly hope that people in Pitt make things a little
'hot' for the organizers of this obnoxious campaign.

Newsgroups: misc.misc,alt.feminism
From: pfox@sdf.lonestar.org (David M. Cawthon)
Subject: Re: A good night's sleep
Organization: Best lil' ol' Pubnix in Texas
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 03:17:32 GMT

In article <MJD.92Oct5143952@saul.cis.upenn.edu> mjd@saul.cis.upenn.edu ("[*] King of the Ugly Ties") writes:
>Now fuck off, all of you.
>--
>
>                And for to se, and eek for to be seye
>Mark-Jason Dominus 	  			    mjd@central.cis.upenn.edu 

Sorry... I don't have sex with insect repellant.
Newsgroups: misc.misc,misc.consumers.house,misc.forsale,misc.wanted,soc.culture.iranian
From: mxahmad@pbhyg.PacBell.COM (Mehdi Ahmadi)
Subject: San Francisco Luxury Condo for rent
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Distribution: ba
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:33:54 GMT
Followup-To: poster




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	Luxury Condo in Pacific Hights

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	1 Bath
	Parking
	Security bulding
	City view
	Next to opera house between Vanness and Franklin
	pool, spa, gim
	1160 per month + deposit
	Available now

	call   408-922-2666  ext 5644   (eve)
	       415-349-4077             (day)	

	  P
Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: jdavis@chico.DHL.COM (Jim Davis)
Subject: Re: This Time Around, DON'T VOTE !!
Organization: DHL Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1992 22:28:24 GMT

In article <92.10.05.1@eecs.nwu.edu> misc.misc writes:
>Soon it will be the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November
...etc.

Lord how I hope you are an isolated voice!  It is so easy to criticize
without giving a better option.  Sure, a vote means little, but have you
got something better?  If you don't I think you ought to keep quiet.  I
have no sympathy for the hordes that criticize our process and elected 
officials and then don't vote!  Sure the bureaucrats rule for the most part
but is that any reason to give up.  If things are that bad why bother to 
even get out of bed in the morning, just to pick up a welfare check and
food stamps?  I could say a lot more but I'm getting angrier with every
word I type and I don't think this is the right forum for what I'd like 
to say just now.
From: dsnyder@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil
Newsgroups: misc.misc
Subject: Radio Control Equipment For Sale
Date: 13 Oct 92 12:53:39 EST
Organization: USAF AL/CFH, WPAFB, Dayton, OH


  Ok,  Here is what I have for sale.  We can negotiate shipping from Ohio
  and price. Take it all or part.

1 - O/S Four Stroke 1.20  VG Condition  $220

1 - High Wing float plane, built and flown with Como .40 engine
    good shape with good engine  $120

1 - 1/4 scale Nosen Citabria 9 foot wingspan, with Supertigre S2000 two
    stroke 1.20 disp., and 4 channel Futaba radio with aileron rudder
    mixer, built and flown.  Average shape plane, engine and radio 
    very good condition. $275

1 - Enya 09 R/C engine on sailplane power pod.  Good condition. $35

1 - 1/5 scale Flybaby scratch built with RCM plans 80% done with 
    plans, landing gear. Fuse, wings and tail done, need ailerons and covering
    yet.  $50

1 - Ugly stick ARF, .40 size New in box.  $50

1 - O/S .25 R/C ABC w/muffler  Good Shape.  $40

1 - Rock Buster R/C car.  Broken tires and gear in gear box.  $10 or I'll
    throw it in if you buy one of the other items.

  I'm getting out of the R/C hobby because the purchase of a full scale
  aircraft no longer leaves time for both.  Email me and I would be happy to
  work a deal with you.
                                     David-- 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
David B. Snyder                     Logicon Technical Services Inc.
dsnyder@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil   Wright-Patterson Air Force Base
513-255-7557                        Dayton, Ohio USA
---------------------------------------------------------------------
It is said that GOD doesn't subtract from ones' time on earth, those
hours spent flying.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
1946 Cessna 140 N76234 "The lady in waiting" Owner/Operator
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of Logicon or the USAF.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: mingo@world.std.com (Charles H Mingo)
Subject: Re: Is it possible to email to America Online from the Internet?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 07:10:06 GMT

frank@odetics.com (Frank Merrow) writes:
>And of course it the answer is "yes", then the next question is "how".

	The answer is yes.  The format is <username>@aol.com, so (for example)
if my logname were 'mingo3', you would email me at 'mingo3@aol.com'.

	If there are any spaces in the logname, they are omitted, so 'Joe
Blow' becomes 'joeblow@aol.com'.

	OK?

-- 
______________________________________________________________________________
Charlie Mingo					Internet: mingo@well.sf.ca.us 
2209 Washington Circle #2				  mingo@cup.portal.com
Washington, DC  20037	    AT&T:  202/785-2089 	  mingo@world.std.com
Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: dattier@ddsw1.mcs.com (DWT)
Subject: The Decade Begins Thursday
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 05:23:02 GMT
Organization: Contributor Account at ddsw1, Chicago, Illinois  60657

As we were approaching December 31, 1989, debate raged here over whether the
new decade began January 1, 1990, or January 1, 1991.

I submit not only that January 1, 0, and January 1, 1, were a pair of dates
that were never used -- nobody said on either of those days that "Today is
January 1, 0," or "Today is January 1, 1" -- but also that they are two days
about which we know nothing worth commemorating.  One or the other was a poor
guess, off by several years and change, at the date of an event about which
I, for one of many, don't care; for those among you who do care about that
occurrence, it didn't happen on either of those dates anyway.

The calendar by which January 1, 1990, and January 1, 1991, could possibly
have been seen as the starts of a decade actually called its very first day
October 15, 1582.  That's a date on which something occurred; it's the day
the Gregorian calendar began.  It never had a year 0 nor a year 1, and 1990
was neither its 1,990th year nor its 1,991st but rather some 9 1/2 months of
its 408th year and 2 1/2 months of its 409th.

The forty-first decade ends this coming Wednesday and the forty-second decade
will begin on Thursday.  That's the mathematics of the matter; anything else,
anything involving years whose numerals end in zero or nine or one, is pop
psychology.

David W. Tamkin   Box 59297   Northtown Station, Illinois  60659-0297
dattier@ddsw1.mcs.com    CompuServe: 73720,1570    MCI Mail: 426-1818
From: judson@watnxt2.ucr.edu (Michael Judson)
Newsgroups: misc.misc
Subject: U2 Tickets
Date: 8 Oct 92 04:31:16 GMT

I have four tickets for the U2 concert on October 30 in Los Angeles.  They
are really good seats: center stage, field.  I am asking $95.00 for each
ticket.  If you are interested, please E-mail me.  Thanks.


--
"I drank what?" -- Socrates

judson@watserv.ucr.edu
Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: gadfly@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (Gadfly)
Subject: Re: This Time Around, DON'T VOTE !!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 20:34:01 GMT
Summary: One more time.

In article <1992Oct10.054544.7370@eecs.nwu.edu>, ptownson@eecs.nwu.edu
(Patrick A. Townson) quotes me:
> > Methinks you don't understand the process, Patrick.  Nobody suggests
> > that their vote will in any way change the system, nor even make
> > their life substantially different.  When I resolutely cast my vote
> > for Bill Clinton, I have no delusions that Slick Willie is going to
> > do anything but try to poke holes in my pockets.  

> Then why bother? You know nothing will change; I know nothing will
> change; if nothing changes and the bottom line stays the same, why
> spend the $1 for bus fare to go to the polling place and stand in line
> for an hour?  

Well, for one, because it's only a 2 block walk from my house, and
there's never much of a line early in the morning.  For two, no substantial
change is *not* the same as no change.  A new president will surround
himself with different people and make new judicial appointments.
He will make history look different.  Imagine if Daley the Elder had
not been able to count right so that Illinois--and the election--went
to Nixon in 1960.  Some things would be a lot different.  Like the
space program, Russia, Cuba.

> Here in Chicago, the way the city wins lawsuits against it is by
> blackmailing the judge to give a ruling they like...

You really have been in Chicago too long.

> Clinton will change nothing; Bush will change nothing; Perot might
> make a few changes, not necessarily for the better ... 

Bush will certainly change nothing, because he believes (or parrots
his handlers' belief) that government isn't supposed to do anything.
Clinton and Perot *must* change things--by tautology.  The question
is, will those changes be anything that makes a difference in your
life?  And the answer is, you can't possibly know.  Obviously, using
the system won't--and can't--change the system.  But voting is not
that hard to do, and the results may be most amusing.

               *** ***
Ken Perlow   ***** *****
10 Oct 92   ****** ******   19 Vendemiaire An CCI
            *****   *****   gadfly@ihspc.att.com <- New address.
             ** ** ** **             ^^^
...L'AUDACE!   *** ***   TOUJOURS DE L'AUDACE!  ENCORE DE L'AUDACE!
From: gadfly@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (Gadfly)
Newsgroups: misc.misc,talk.politics.misc,alt.flame
Subject: Re: This Time Around, DON'T VOTE !!
Summary: Come on.
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:23:04 GMT
Followup-To: misc.misc
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct9.044339.30062@eecs.nwu.edu>, ptownson@eecs.nwu.edu
(Patrick A. Townson) writes:
> REMEMBER: Above all, do not patronize the politicians and their
> cronies in government ... STAY AWAY from the polls next month.
> Instead, contact them and suggest they perform an anatomically
> impossible act upon themselves, and DO NOT VOTE!

Methinks you don't understand the process, Patrick.  Nobody suggests
that their vote will in any way change the system, nor even make
their life substantially different.  When I resolutely cast my vote
for Bill Clinton, I have no delusions that Slick Willie is going to
do anything but try to poke holes in my pockets.  It's just that
I'm so sick and tired of the ever more pathetic mewlings of the
mean-spirited and cowardly bully who became the most powerful person
in the world by making nasty into an art form.  That's all.  I mean,
sheesh, in Europe it is customary to elect to high office their most
literate citizens.  We've got one who can't even speak in complete
sentences and his steppin-fetchit who can't even spell at the 5th-grade
level.  Says a lot about us as a nation, doesn't it?

               *** ***
Ken Perlow   ***** *****
09 Oct 92   ****** ******   18 Vendemiaire An CCI
            *****   *****   gadfly@ihspc.att.com <- New address.
             ** ** ** **             ^^^
...L'AUDACE!   *** ***   TOUJOURS DE L'AUDACE!  ENCORE DE L'AUDACE!
Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: frank@odetics.com (Frank Merrow)
Subject: Is it possible to email to America Online from the Internet?
Organization: Odetics, Inc., Anaheim, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 03:48:46 GMT

And of course it the answer is "yes", then the next question is "how".
-- 
===================================================================
= Frank Merrow                     (Home) (714) 455-3096          =
= Odetics Inc, Broadcast Division  (Work) (714) 772-1000 Ext 3860 =
= 1515 S. Manchester Avenue        (Fax)  (714) 535-8532          =
= Anaheim, CA 92802                (Net)  frank@odetics.com       =
===================================================================
Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: cab@col.hp.com (Chris Best)
Subject: Re: The Decade Begins Thursday
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:20:22 GMT
Organization: your service

A decade is a period of ten years.  ANY ten years.
So you can call any day the start or end of one.

In fact, a decade just ended as I was typing that.
And seven more started.
Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: patstew@oz.plymouth.edu (Pat Steward)
Subject: Re: Signs of Stupidity
Reply-To: patstew@oz.plymouth.edu (Pat Steward)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 12:30:56 GMT

In article <BvpLK1.MGq@well.sf.ca.us> rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao) writes:
>
>Signs of Stupidity
>
>-astrology
>-Grammy awards
>-Garfield
>-colorful newspapers
>-plaid shorts
>--

 -calling things other people like "stupid" in a public forum
-- 
Pat Martin Steward                          patstew@oz.plymouth.edu
I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is;
I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express senti-
ments that differentiate me from a doormat.       Rebecca West, 1913
Newsgroups: misc.misc,alt.feminism
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Pitt's Graffiti
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:07:04 GMT
Followup-To: alt.feminism

TJ Wood writes:
> 
> There is a bumper-crop harvest of PITT NEWS articles that might be of interest
> to the readers of alt.feminism, today!
> 
> Nat Finkin, now officially a columinst for the PITT NEWS, writes on page 7
> about the "STOP RAPING" and "DEAD MEN DON'T RAPE" signs that campus feminists
> are erecting/spray painting on campus.
> 
> It seems that these signs cause his roomate to exclaim: "I hate feminazis!
> I hate @#$%&* feminists!", when confronted by feminists who proclaim that
> they "love" these signs.

Hmmm.  Usually I like to handle things like this sarcastically, but I'm
having some trouble coming up with some good 'Dead Women' jokes.  About the
best I can do offhand is:

"Dead Women Aren't Much Fun" (inspired by the song 'Dead puppies aren't
much fun'.)

'Dead Women Don't tell Tales'

101 uses for a Dead Woman

It is an interesting test of the 1st amendment free speech protection, as
such things are quite offensive.  They are arguably not 'fighting words',
not being directed at a specific person, though it seems to me that the
'incitement to violence' principle might come into play.

Newsgroups: misc.misc,alt.feminism
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: MS magazine
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:16:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.feminism

Stewart Schultz writes:
> 
> In article <1992Oct13.161246.16883@panix.com>
> gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:
> >
> >But those issues of _Ms_ that I have seen
> >have generally contained diverse viewpoints.  That sort of
> >thing seems to confound anti-feminists,
> 
> And why does it not confound pro-feminists?  If the 'good'
> viewpoints are arguments in favor of feminism, then aren't
> the 'bad' viewpoints arguments against it?
> 
> Saying the glass is half-full seems a pretty left-handed way
> to defend feminism.
> 
> -S. Schultz


I had an opportunity to look at _MS_ magazine a little after the 'wilding'
incident in New York.  In this incident, a gang started assaulting everyone
they met.  It was pretty clearly an 'equal opportunity' crime - at
least IMO.  Women were not singled out - everyone was attacked.  _MS_
magazine, however, was just full of articles about "men's violence against
women", many of which mentioned this incident. None of these articles  seemed
to pick up the point that people of both genders were assaulted, and that the
female stockbroker who was the most severely injured was simply the one who
didn't get away fast enough

I was very unimpressed with the magazine, and I believe it is reasonably
accurate to say that NOW and _MS_ magazine are 'pushing' the violence against
women issue for all its worth politically. I think there rhetoric on the
topic is very misleading - the statistics I've seen show that most violent
crime victims are men.

Perhpas there is more diversity on other issues - I suppose this could simply
be one of the current 'hot spots' for the current editor.  However, I didn't
see much evidence of 'diversity' wrt this specific issue.

Newsgroups: misc.misc,talk.politics.misc,alt.flame