HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 7 Nov 92 08:14:39 GMT
	<1992Nov3.170655.16823@nynexst.com>
	<1992Nov4.183852.3435@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com>
Organization: Sylvan Associates

I also wanted to respond to the poster who claimed to have 'no
limits'. Unless Clare really doesn't restrict her son't behavior at
all, she's got limits. She just hasn't looked at it that clearly. I
would think she's going to continue his diaper change despite
squirming, keep him away from danger, keep him from hurting others,
and the like. That is what 'setting limits' is about. It isn't
necessarily about setting down complex rules for everything, it can be
pretty basic. But Clare, it would probably be helpful to you in your
parenting if you got clear what your goals and limits and the reasons
for them are. There are some social limits, for example, that will
enable your child to move more easily about in society if he learns
them, even if they don't endanger his life.

In article <1992Nov4.183852.3435@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com> elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade) writes:

   Why is the idea of limit-testing negative?  Children are always
   doing this.  Even infants are constantly trying to do things they
   can't quite yet -- like sit, crawl, or stand.  Its a generally
   positive response to the world.  As a parent, you have the 
   responsibility to be sure this positive tendency doesn't corrupt
   into something distructive. Just because you aren't always right
   and because the responsibility is large, is no reason to shirk 
   your repsonsibility to set limits as a parent. 

Even more so I'd propose that limit testing is a NATURAL effect of
children growing. As they grow, they are able to do things that they
couldn't before, or needed to ask for help for, etc. Wouldn't it be
appropriate that they try at least a few of the forbidden behaviors to
see if perhaps they are now skilled enough to handle them.

For example, my daughter isn't going to be forbidden the use of sharp
knives or the stove for her whole life :-).  So I need to make it
clear when she'll be big enough, or let her know that she must ask me
first, and explain that things are dangerous and so on. But there are
things that she wasn't 'allowed' to do - like pour her own juice -
that she can now do *if* the container isn't too full. And she
understands why she should ask for help if the container is too full.

While limit testing might be aggravating at times, it is a sign of
healthy growth in most cases. I don't think it's about questioning
authority, it's just about testing their wings. The child needs
consistant guidance so they'll be able to learn and remember the
rules.
-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson)
Subject: Throwing food (was Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:14:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.193641.24848@adobe.com> riggle@adobe.com (Kathleen Riggle) writes:
>As for throwing food at the table, well that's one of those times when
>it's good to look at why she's doing it.  I don't really mind the
>food-throwing; it's just when it lands on me that bugs me!  We've
>realized, though, that Rachel really hates having anything on her tray
>that she doesn't want to eat.  So she throws it.  We've given her an
>option; hand the food to us.  Since we've started doing this, she
>rarely throws food anymore.  What good would a spanking have done in
>this case?  Her overwhelming desire is to have her tray cleared of
>undesirable food.  If we hit her, I'm sure she would still be throwing
>food, because we hadn't solved the basic problem.  I admit it's a
>little quirky to not want the food on her plate, but that's her
>option.
>
Well, it may not be as quirky as you think--both my sons had this
attitude, and my almost 6yo is only now getting over it.  (Actually, he 
has not thrown the food for a few years, but he still tries to remove
things he does not like onto the table, or he tries to give it to some
one else.)

-- 
Seanna Watson   Bell-Northern Research, 
(seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Opinions, what opinions?  Oh *these* opinions. | It's hard to seize the
No, they're not BNR's, they're mine.           | day when you must first
I knew I'd left them somewhere.                | grapple with the morning.
From: liz@marvin.contex.com (Elizabeth Cyr Jones)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 SPANKING COMPLAINT
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:06:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Xyvision Design Systems

In article <25765@optima.cs.arizona.edu> shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford) writes:
>
>I'm not trying to tell you to spank your kids.  Don't tell me not
>to spank mine.


Pretty good job of backpedaling, Dave. Doesn't it make you wonder about the
merits of alternatives to spankings if practically everyone in this
group disagrees with you? 

After all is said and done, I think someone should spank you.

liz jones
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade)
Subject: Re: WAS 20/20 and Spanking - IS Child Rearing
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:12:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.181941.16751@nas.nasa.gov> choi@wk59.nas.nasa.gov (Diana Choi) writes:
>(Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
>
>>Yes.  I think spanking is better than nothing.  Effective discipline without
>>spanking is better still.  But nothing is the pits.
>
>Along these lines, there is an interesting set of studies done by
>Diana Baumrind, noting different methods of child rearing and the resultant
>child behavior.  She divided up the different methods into authoritarian,
>authoritative, permissive.  Each was described in terms of four factors:
>
>  1. Parental Control - measure of strict discipline (does NOT mean spanking)
>
>  2. Clarity of Parent-Child communications - extent to which child's
>        opinion is solicited on family decisions, extent to which parent 
>	offers reasons for punitive or restrictive measures.
>
>  3. Maturity demands - parental pressure or encouragement to perform well 
>	in the intellectual, social, or social sphere.
>
>  4. Nurturance - warmth and involvement in caretaking, extent to which
>	parent expresses concern for child's well-being or pleasure in
>	child's accomplishments.
>
>The results:
>
>     AUTHORITARIAN parents:
>	high control, low communication, high maturity, low nurturance. 
>     Their children :
>	 withdrawn, showing relatively little vitality and eagerness in 
>	 their daily activity. In addition, they were shy and generally
>	 uneasy around peers.  Children showed a lack of instrumental
>	 competence, self-reliance, vitality and self-control.
>
>     AUTHORITATIVE parents:
>	high control, high communication, high maturity, high nurturance. 
>     Their children :
>	 self-assertive, independent, friendly with peers, and cooperative
>	 with parents. Both intellectually and socially they demonstrated 
>	 success, enjoyment and strong motivation toward achievement.
>
>
>     PERMISSIVE parents:
>	low control, high communication, low maturity, high nurturance
>     Their children :
>	 Children showed a lack of instrumental competence, self-reliance, 
>	 vitality and self-control, BUT were more positive in their moods
>	 and showed more vitality than children of authoritarian families.
>
>from "Social and Personality Development", by William Damon.
>
>
>diana
>

So what do you have if you have high control, high communication, low
maturity, and high nurturance?  I mean what's so great about pushing
your child beyond their age intellectually or socially?  The other
areas I can see ... (Assume by high control that means consistent
discipline.)

Elise. 
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes)
Subject: Re: Feeling the baby move for the very first time
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:16:41 GMT
Summary: fluttering


Sounds like me, I felt fluttering around 16 weeks.  At the time I
was not sure, but it was definitely the baby.  For me, the first
movements were definitely fluttering feelings around week 16.  It's
a great feeling, eh?  You can read about it, and hear about from
everyone else, but it's nothing like really feeling it for yourself.
And even when you do you are not sure, but as your pregnancy progresses
you'll look back and know that fluttering feeling was your baby.
I used to write it down in my "baby diary", like Aug. 20th: felt
fluttering.  

Christine
first-time-mom-2-b 1/19/93

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: EMN002@email.mot.com (Mary Beth Northrup)
Subject: Re: High-chair reco wanted
Organization: Motorola, Inc. Plantation, FL
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:17:59 GMT

It seems that the Fisher-Price model is a winner! I don't have that model
(although now I wish I did!), but I've been very happy with my Little Tykes
high chair. It's easy to get in and out of, the tray comes off easily,
it converts to a youth chair, and is very stable. It also has a very large
wrap-around tray which doesn't have any cracks for food to hide in and
can be removed with one hand. It doesn't fold, though,
which would be a nice feature. My only complaint is that sometimes food
like spagetti temporarily stains the surface of the white tray (it eventually
wears off, though). It's  very sturdy high chair which can easily last
through more kids!

Just another opinion!   :-)

|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Mary Beth Northrup                    "In the house and on the street .. |
| (mommy to Sean, 16 mo.)																	how many, many feet you meet!"   |
| EMN002@email.mot.com                                   ---  Dr. Seuss    |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
From: rollo@xylogics.com (Dena Rollo)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Helpful Hints (was Re: Birth Announcement)
Date: 12 Nov 1992 10:52:23 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


Coni Gehler asks:

  Sam is 7 months old, and I've been washing
>his clothes separately, in Dreft.  When do I dare to try washing his clothes
>with ours (we use Tide), and how long would it take for any adverse reaction
>to show itself?  And when do I dare to use fabric softener sheets in the dryer>with his clothes?


I've never used Dreft or Ivory for Isabel's stuff-
I basically buy whichever unscented liquid detergent
is on sale (usually Wisk or Tide) and use that. I
probably wouldn't have to use unscented, either, but
I prefer it for my own laundry.

Have never had a problem, and I'd say that Isabel
(now 9 mos) has average-ly sensitive skin (i.e.,
major "pacifier rash" much of the time, but no
diaper rashes).

I don't use fabric softener, so I can't help on that
one, but I'd say go ahead and try washing Sam's
clothes in with yours, unless you have some
reason to think he's unusually sensitive.

-Dena
From: brighid@hern.stonemarche.org
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: buying new contacts while pregnant
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:45:26 EST
Organization: Hern the Hunter, Stonemarche (NH)

Hello!

Some of you may remember my post this summer about getting pregnant
despite/with a tipped uterus... well, all those people who said that
it would be no problem were right. (We did it! We did it!)

So, in the "worry early, worry often" tradition, I'm wondering if
I should try to get new contacts now. I've got your basic daily wear
lenses and I'm thinking about getting the disposable, extended
wear variety. (So I won't have to wear my icky glasses during labor,
so I can see clearly when I get up at night, so I can fall asleep
when and where I want to.0

I've read that sometimes the fluid build-up during pregnancy can cause
your vision to change slightly, and that would certainly be a concern
when buying new contacts.

Anyone had any experience with this?

thanks much!

Brighid                                  mom-to-be in May '93 :)
brighid@hern.stonemarche,.org
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mes@ddsdx2.jhuapl.edu (Mark Schmid x6322)
Subject: 20 month old: disrobing
Summary: Can't keep the clothes on my daughter !
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Distribution: east
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 23:17:51 GMT

My 20 month old daughter has developed a penchant for
removing her clothes.  She is particularly inclined to
indulge in her new found nudity any time we put her down
to sleep.  With the cold weather coming, we need to get
her to stop, and haven't had much success.

Scolding, etc. really doesn't effect her (I hope that's due
to her age and not a long term attitude), and we have  tried
things like pajamas that snap up the back - without success.

I suggested that we wind a couple loops of duct tape around her
after she's dressed, but my wife doesn't want all the fuzz ripped
off her pajamas :^)

Anyone have a compromise ?
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mimi@apollo.hp.com (Mimi Wellington)
Subject: Re: Explaining death to children.  Was Re: [Goulish] cute things they say
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:54:08 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

Hi:

        I went to a talk given by a children's librarian yesterday, and
she recommended a couple of resources for books to help kids deal with
death and illness:

        Bernstein, Joanne. _Books to Help Children Cope with Separation 
           and Loss_.  Vol. 3.  Bowker. 1989.

        Gillis, Ruth.  _Children's Books for Times of Stress:  An 
           Annotated Bibliography_.  Indiana University Press.  1978.

        While we were discussing the subject, several people mentioned
books that they'd found useful when discussing death with kids.  One was
Tomie DePaola's _Nana Upstairs, Nana Downstairs_, and [someone's--sorry
didn't get the author] _Now One Foot, Now the Other_.  I might've gotten
that last title wrong--this book is about a child whose grandfather has
had a stroke.
                                                --Mimi Wellington
From: kapa@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (k.a.perkins)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Plain Talk About Spanking (long)
Summary: kids learn that parents have different limits
Date: 7 Nov 92 05:50:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsc.1992Nov7.055030.14016
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1713@doral.UUCP>, kms@adpgate.UUCP (Tina Sansom) writes:
> Here's another question about spanking from a lurker.  I don't have
> kids, but would definitely like them some day.  I don't believe
> in spanking, but my SO does.  What do parents in this situation do?
> I'm sure I'm not the only one in the world with this difference of
> opinion.  How would this difference in parenting style affect a child?

In general, it is best if both parents are consistent with 
respect to what constitutes misbehaviour and what is an
appropriate punishment.  In real life, any 2 people have different
parenting styles, different things they like to do with their
kids, different ways of doing it, and different limits of what
they will tolerate.  As long as the parents don't deviate
too wildly from each other, it is certainly acceptable, unavoidable,
and healthy for kids to learn that they have to adapt their
behaviour to different people and situations.

Kate Perkins
From: albert@endor.uucp (David Albert)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Disneyland Hints
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:16:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Nov5.181638.11397
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:

>>	Space Mountain
>Don't go on this twice in a row if you're prone to motion sickness.

Don't go on this ever, even once, in your entire life, no matter how
long you live, if you're prone to motion sickness....

>>	Mad Tea Party
>The secret here is not to teach your children about spinning the tea cups.
>Just sit and enjoy.

If you're prone to motion sickness, don't do this one either.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Albert				  | Illegitimi non carborundum est.
albert@das.harvard.edu		 	  |
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: EMN002@email.mot.com (Mary Beth Northrup)
Subject: Re: You know you're a parent when ...
Organization: Motorola, Inc. Plantation, FL
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:20:05 GMT

On a business trip you LOOK for babies in the airport and secretly wish
(just a little) that one would sit next to you on the plane so that you
could play with him/her.

In the airplane gift shop you ignore the magazines and look at the 
toys to see what you can bring home!

[Just back from my first business trip away from the baby (a whole week!!)
and recovering from child withdrawal!  :-)  ]

|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Mary Beth Northrup                    "In the house and on the street .. |
| (mommy to Sean, 16 mo.)																	how many, many feet you meet!"   |
| EMN002@email.mot.com                                   ---  Dr. Seuss    |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Explaining death to children.
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:05:21 GMT
	<13848@pogo.wv.tek.com> <1992Nov2.212919.6067@carlyle.com>
Organization: Sylvan Associates

In article <1992Nov2.212919.6067@carlyle.com> laurent@carlyle.com (Bob Laurent) writes:

   I've been reading this thread for a while and have
   not seen any discussion about explaining the death
   of a parent to a child.  The situation that I'm in
   is that my girl friend is dying of kidney failure
   related to diabetes and she has a 3 1/2 year old and
   a 9 year old.  Any suggestions as to how to explain
   this to them, both prior to her death (they both
   know that she is dying) and after?

Explaining? I think that a general discussion and HONEST sharing of
feelings is necessary. That it's sad she's so sick, that all that can
be done medically has been done, and that the adults are upset, too.
That you love her, and you'll miss her, and you need to listen to the
kids and honestly answer their questions -- who knows what's on their
mind before you talk and allow them to ask. They might be worried
about what happens to them after their mom dies, they might be worried
about the amount of pain mom is in, who knows?

A good friend of ours just lost her mom to cancer. Katherine and their
youngest daughter have been very close friends, so we decided to bring
Katherine to the funeral. It was a chance for her to deal (on some
level) with a person dying w/o it being a close relative. Since at
least one of Kathy's great grandparents is going to be gone within
months, we will need to talk about it -- we just visited them for what
I think is the last time I'll see either of them alive. We also did it
to support the little one who lost her grandmother - it really helped
her to have her good friend to play with during the gathering
afterwards. And Katherine understands a bit more if Sydney talks about
her grandmother's death.

Indeed, Katherine did have some odd questions -- like about the
burial, and she thought Sydney's grandmother had been shot dead. We
explained that she hadn't been shot, that she'd gotten a kind of
sickness called cancer, and that is why she died. We did reassure her
that usually when people get sick, they get better again, but there's
sometimes a person gets very very sick, and they die. It was sometimes
a bit confronting for me to answer her questions, but I'd rather
explain that we're sad and answer her questions, instead of her
thinking that Sydney's grandmother was shot dead.
-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
From: hancock@Aero.org (Melody F. Hancock)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: buying new contacts while pregnant
Date: 12 Nov 1992 17:13:19 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: lotus.aero.org

In article <1992Nov5.214526.2045@hern.stonemarche.org>, brighid@hern.stonemarche.org writes:
|> Hello!
|> 
[...]
|> 
|> So, in the "worry early, worry often" tradition, I'm wondering if
|> I should try to get new contacts now. I've got your basic daily wear
|> lenses and I'm thinking about getting the disposable, extended
|> wear variety. (So I won't have to wear my icky glasses during labor,
|> so I can see clearly when I get up at night, so I can fall asleep
|> when and where I want to.0
|> 
 [...]

Well, congratulations on your pregnancy.  Yes, the extended wear contacts
are wonderful.  Right after having my 2nd child, I started wearing them.
Boy, it was great being able to see at night.  I could actually watch
the baby nurse!  And not tripping over toys in the middle of the night
while scrambling to get a screaming baby was great!  I waited until after
the baby was born under the direction of my opthamologist.  Now that I'm
pregnant again, I have to wear daily wear contacts.  The fluid buildup just
irritates my eyes too much.  The opthamologist said this is quite common
and now that I don't wear extended my eyes are fine.  I'll go back to
extended after the baby is born.  So first, see you opthamologist.  
Based on personal experience, I'd say wait until after the baby is
born.

Hope this helps

melody


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Child Security and Childcare (was Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:00:21 GMT

elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade) writes:

>OK, so what about a baby like Melinda? She's *never* cried when
>I or my husband have left her anywhere (though she came close once
>when she was asleep when the hand off started).  She is delightfully
>happy with the babysitter.  Then she is absolutely delighted to be
>picked up by myself or my husband & actively seeks attention & interplay.

>I keep expecting her to develop seperation anxiety, I guess 5 1/2
>months is a bit early yet.  But, she clearly recognizes different
>people & does respond differently.  I never guessed they made babies
>like this.  

With both of our boys, my wife and I have had lots of people,
friends, babysitters who have watched them.  My wife does not
work outside the home but does attend college, so she's usually
in class about 2 hours every day.  Both boys have had lots of
interaction with a wide range of people and do pretty well at
coping with us leaving them for a couple of hours.  Recently, 
our 3.5 year old misses me quite a bit when I go to work, but
other than that, they both can handle not being with us for
a couple of hours.

allen
Newsgroups: misc.kids