From: drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
Subject: Re: Snowboarders Suck!!!!
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 07:43:47 GMT

In article <gf_7Hmy00Vo90Z4Fw0@andrew.cmu.edu> Martin David Frankel <mf3s+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>I've got a serious question that is only remotely related to this thread.
>
>I'm a skiier but not a snowboarder, and I'm curious:
>
>Are the skills involved with snowboarding closer to those of skiing, or
>of skateboarding?  

That would depend on what discipline you're looking at. Alpine riding,
where knowledge of snow conditions, edge control, etc are important 
draws more from skiing, whereas half pipe and free riding tricks 
come from skate boarding.

>And are most snowboarders ex-skiiers or

Many snowboarders are ex-skiers.

>ex-skateboarders?

Many snowboarders are skateboarders (note tense).

Some do some combination of alpine/tele skiing and snowboarding.

>
>The reason I ask this is the following:  I suspect the animousity for
>snowboarders in the U.S. skiing community is related to the "skater
>subculture", if I may call it that.  In the U.S., if not elsewhere, an
>entire subculture has arisen around skateboarding.  I think that
>snowboarding is an offshoot of this subculture, and hence, snowboarders
>tend to be very different in attitudes and cultural values from the
>average skiier.  There is a similar conflict in many urban areas, where
>skateboarders are fighting to keep the right to skateboard in public
>areas, or even at all.  The whole problem is especially bad because
>skaters tend to be a rowdy, anarchistic bunch, with a negative view of
>authority.

>Before anyone gets pissed off, let me note that when I refer to a
>"subculture," I mean "a small offshoot culture" rather than "an inferior
>culture."  If I had better coordination I'd probably be a skater myself.
>

Some skiers dislike snowboarders in general because prejudices based
on their observations of  a few (or many) begining snowboarders.  

The skidding snowboarders MYTH :

The biggest complaint I hear from skiers about snowboarders is that 
"snowboarders scrape off the snow".

FACT:

Beggining snowboarders do a fair amount of skidding around, just 
as beggining skiers snowplow.  When their adrenaline/testosterone input 
overrides their common sense input, they end up on real runs and 
scrape the tops off of the moguls.

FACT:

Skis and snowboards want to flex in a certain way. With your weight
at the center of a ski, you can't force it to carve an arc radically
different than the one it wants to naturally, and you end up
skidding.  With a snowboard, you can use your feet to alter the flex,
letting your turns approach "The Perfect Carve." Experienced snowboarders take 
advantage of these mechanics, enabling them to carve better turns than 
experienced skiers.  

On a snowboard, with a reasonable alpine stance (ie, angulated enough so 
there is no heel or toe drag), sharp edges, and snow (not east coast
"hardpack" or ice) you have enough edge hold and centrifigul force
to hold you up when your shoulder is almost touching the snow 
(ie, a 70-80+ degree angle with the snow).  

An experienced alpine rider can leave a single track, 1/2 inch wide, 
1/2 inch deep down a groomed run with a few blemishes where the heel/toe
side transitions occurred.   

These skiers seem to accept that they aren't in the same catagory as 
the snow plowing tourists on the bunny hill, and shouldn't have any
problems accepting competant snowboarders  who don't fit their 
stereo types.

These skiers seem to grudgeingly accept beggining skiers on their 
mountain, inspite of the negative effects of snowplowing, and 
shouldn't have any problems accepting snowboarders who are in the 
same boat.

The dickhead skiers MYTH : 

The biggest complaint I hear from snowboarders is that skiers are 
dickheads.  

FACT : 

Due to the "skidding snowboarders"  myth, other prejudices, or bad
encounters with boarders in the past, some skiers have an extremely 
negative attitude towards boarders. 

Lacking maturity, being under the influence, or begin just plain mean,
I've seen skiers cuss at, spit at, drop snow on, and pummel (with
fists and poles) boarders.

FACT :

Due to the "dick head skiers" myth , other prejudices, or bad encounters 
with skiers in the past, some boarders have an extremely negative 
attitude towards skiers.

Lacking maturity, being under the influence, or begin just plain mean,
I've seen boarders cuss at, spit at, drop snow on, and pummel skiers.

It's a two way street.  A member of The Opposing Sport bothers 
you in some way, you retaliate and form prejudices about The Opposing 
Sport, and at the same time your actions fullfil The Opposing Sport's
sterotypes of Your Sport justifying their actions.

It'll end when boarders and skiers drop their stereotypes, 
accepting each other except for the few bad apples that you'll
find in any group.
-- 
Boycott AT&T for their absurd anti-BSDI lawsuit. | Drew Eckhardt
Condemn Colorado for Amendment Two.		 | drew@cs.colorado.edu
Use Linux, the fast, flexible, and free 386 unix |  
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