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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:23:52 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2917
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2917

                        Wednesday, September 02, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 708

                             Jaws with Votalker
                           Tinytalk 1.20 is here!
                       Re: Synthavoice Another Opinion
                             Low cost ocr system
                                  Slimware
                         message from david kostyshn
                          Re: what is a team player
                          Re: braille and spelling
                            Re: Art and the Blind
                              Re: Screen Reader


                                ******


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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
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Subject: Jaws with Votalker
From: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:396/5.18 - Pontchippi, New Orleans LA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 GS> Hi Walter,
 GS> I am using a Votalker with Ja)s on my system at home.
 GS> Are you having a problem I may be able to help?

Only since jaws 2.2 came out.  When I type, I like to have my
keyboard echo set to echo each letter typed, and since jaws 2.2
came out, when using it with the votalker, it tends to make my
keyboard sluggish, and drags back on the speech.  It seems to do it
more at the dos prompt.

Walter

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Subject: Tinytalk 1.20 is here!
From: Eric.Bohlman@p3.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Bohlman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.3 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 SH> How does TineyTalk work with emmulation programs such as Irma and the
 SH> like? I mean those dogs who like to "take over" your keyboard and steel
 SH> interrupt 9?

I'm not aware of anyone who's tried it (I know of one person who
got it to work with an IRMA, but he still had some Telesensory
stuff loaded, so I'm not sure what that proves).  If you're in a
position to give it a try, please do and let me know the results (I
can probably put in some re-vectoring code if necessary).  If you
need an evaluation copy of Tinytalk, let me know and I'll send you
one.

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Internet: Eric.Bohlman@p3.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Synthavoice Another Opinion
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I'm not going to attempt to quote your message to Gary.  Let it
suffice it to  say you were stating that you had had bad
experiences with Syntha-Voice in the past.

I also was blasted by a couple of people here who did not think I
had any right to say anything about Syntha-Voice.  I think that it
is quite clear at times that it is fine for certain people to
rehash certain topics as many times as they wish, but for those who
are not the particular favored few or whatever it is best they not
cross paths with the favored few.

No, I have never owned Syntha-Voice products of my own, but I have
worked in the access technology field for 8 years and have used
their products and have had plenty of experience talking with
clients who have been burned by the company in question.  Frankly,
I don't give a damm if some guy setting on the sidelines tries to
tell me to shut up.  I'll wait and see what really happens and not
be swayed into believing that I can trust a company until they
prove they are trustworthy.  Far too many people both in Canada and
the U. S. have plenty of bad experiences to tell of about the
company to believe that all this happened five years ago.

If we are to believe that Syntha-Voice is so great then I wish
those same people would quit criticizing TSI and Artic.  But, I am
sure I could find plenty of critical remarks from those same people
who don't want to hear criticism of Syntha-voice regarding their
feelings about TSI or Artic or both.

        D. T.

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Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Low cost ocr system
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message of <15 Aug 92  22:26:00>, Juan Mojena (1:2603/203.2) writes:
 >What is the highest resolution that the Pansonic 506 supports? Is there a
 >sheet feeder available for it?
 >

The highest resolution for the Panasonic 506 is 400 DPI.  There are
several scanners that now support 400 DPIresolution.  My concern in
the past with the HP Scan Jet was that while they said that they
supported 400 DPI the fact was that they used a faking technique to
simulate 400 DPI.  The Panasonic and several other scanners have
true 400 resolution and are much more reliable on small print.  I
am not sure whether the newer HP Scan Jet 2 P now being sold with
the Arkenstone and Oscar is a true or fake resolution at 400 and
up.  The HP I am refering to as having a true 300 DPI and faking
above that is the Scan Jet Plus.

Yes, there is a document feeder for the Panasonic 506 scanner.
Apparently this is the only real difference between the Panasonic
505 and the 506.  The model 505 does not have a document feeder
available for it.

I would like to point out that while I got an unbelieveably good
price on my Panasonic that average prices on the Panasonic 506 seem
to be running $1,000 to $1,200.  If you dig long enough you may
find it cheaper, but I don't want to mislead anyone into believing
that the average price is anywhere close to the $500 that I payed
for mine. I GOT EXTREEMLY LUCKY!  D. T.

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Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!168!David.Tanner
Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Slimware
From: Dale.Hayes@f5297.n3603.z1.fidonet.org (Dale Hayes)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/5297 - Henter Joyce Suppor, St Petersburg FL


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I can speak from personal experience that slimware has been very
poor in terms of customer support, product delivery, technical
support, and quality of product.  I have worked with a user and
have attempted to use Slimware products. The results have been 1.
The product did not work (ie. when loaded the program would crash),

2. I have talked at length with their technical support people and
been unable to reslove the problem, 3. They have promised a user
that "the product was in the mail" only to have 4 weeks or more go
by without the product arriving, 4. They have said in no uncertain
terms while dealing with them on the phone that I did not know what
I was doing (hopefully my B.S. in computer science and 8 yrs
experience with micros count for something) and 5. They promised
product updates and products which never "happened" to arrive.  I
have met representatives of the company personally at conventions
and shows and have found them to be abrasive and arrogant. I WILL
NOT PROVIDE TECHNICAL SUPPORT IN THEIR STEAD IN NEBRASKA and have
told potential users in this state as much.

I have also referred interested personsn to 4 former users who have
had worse experiences and whom I have tried to help (as part of my
job).  In my professional opinion Syntha-voice has not met the
standards necessary for me to mention their products as options for
users and until the demonstrate otherwise I will continue to advise
users to avoid them. I could give a very detailed list but the
whole sad saga occupies 26 pages of documentation.

Dale Hayes

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Internet: Dale.Hayes@f5297.n3603.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: message from david kostyshn
From: Paul.Nobrega@p0.f266.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Nobrega)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:163/266.0 - Vision, Ottawa ON


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi David;
As I had posted in a note earlier from Paul
we are working on the Demo as fast as we can.
Understand that Window Bridge started shipping about
3 weeks ago.  Therefore; we have focused all of our
attention on getting rid of the back log.
Had we waited for the Demo to be completed and
run through Beta Testing before announcing the availability
of the product; we would not have been
ready for the Conventions in June and July.
As previously stated; we hope for the Demo to be
available in the early fall.
 As for the point regarding the ACB Convention;
many, many people got ample chances to use the product.
The *only* time that this was not possible
was when there were several people all trying to get access simultaneously.
In this instance; our staff used the keyboard and mouse to answer
the many questions by giving practical demonstrations.
Someone claiming that they were not given access may not be aware that
others were already standing there at the same time.
A few individuals never asked for access to the keyboard; but
it is my understanding having talked to those in attendance that
if you asked for access, and there were not already others at the booth asking
 forquestions to be answered; you had the opportunity to try
it out for yourself.

Imagine if you were in the middle of asking the demonstrator how
a concept is handled, and right in the middle of an explanation;
the keyboard was passed to someone else, and you were then left hanging.
There is no perfect solution for handling *every* request.
We did the best that we could.
However; I want to make it clear that
we did not deny access because we were hiding something from you.
IBM staff came over *every* morning; and were given
access to the product.
The Trace Center came over, as did many individuals;
and were given access.
I was not there myself; but if someone did not get access to the system;
I apologize.
I hope that this straightens these points out for you.

  David Kostyshyn

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Subject: Re: what is a team player
From: Cindy.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Cindy Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 DC> There is a discussion going on right now on nfb-net about this
 DC> very topic.  To sum it up, someone suggested that there are
 DC> definitely limits as to how far one should take disagreements
 DC> in public forums such as this one.  What we've come up with so
 DC> far is that discussion for the sake of open flow of information
 DC> and thought even if it is contrary to official policy is good,
 DC> but when the purpose becomes to factionalize and undermine the
 DC> organization because "my way is better than yours," and,
 DC> "anybody who supports the resolution is a jerk," then it is not
 DC> good.
Hi, Doug,

That is all very well and good, but I ask you, who decides when one has
gone beyond such limits and what that person is doing is an act of
undermining?

DC>   I believe I as a free agent can refuse to support the
 DC> implementation of any resolution and even poice my opinions
 DC> against it, but if I make it a personal thing and try to draw
 DC> people into factions then I am opening myself up for the same
 DC> sort of behavior from the leadership of the organization
 DC> because part of the role of leadership is to keep things
 DC> together. There s be healthy give and take; push and pull in
 DC> any organization.
I am not sure you are considered a "Free Agent" if you are a member of
the NFB, but, of course, you do have the right to express an opinion
about some resolutions.  I am afraid my view of this is colored somewhat
by what I saw with regard to a certain resolution at the New Orleans
convention.

I think the leadership has a lot of responsibility insofar as keeping
down attack, but people need to feel free to have the healthy give and
take you mentioned, and for whatever reason many don't believe that is
available.

DC> a serious problem with a particular policy he
 DC> should act legal bi-laws to either change the policy or change
 DC> the leader
                                                   More easily said than
done.

I don't mean to be over critical, but I do think a lot more thought
needs to be given to this issue because I think it is a danger sign that
the discussion continues ad nausium.  There is going to be
disgruntlement, to be sure, and differing of opinions, but I think that
we all need to do a lot of soul searching about what this discussion
means, from the leadership on down.

Cindy Hallenbeck
p.s.

I probably won't say any more on this issue because I am limited as to
how much more productive verbage I have to add to it, but I have enjoyed
the discussion and, for what it is worth, I am proud to be a member of
the NFB and hope that I can be a part of any changes that mneed to be
made to make us even
more vital than we already are.

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Internet: Cindy.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: braille and spelling
From: Cindy.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Cindy Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

                            Hi,
Thanks for the "two cents."  That is a very interesting problem.  I
guess I figured that kids in public schools learned spelling much the
way I did.  As for those who think braille is no longer necessary, I
think we need to continually honk about that one.  People ought to have
proficiency in reading whether it is by braille or print, and tape
recorders and computers with speech don't cut it.  Also, the possibility
of having more braille becomes smaller, in spite of ADA, when places
that are trying to provide it come into contact with blind people who
don't know how to read it or, for that matter, don't want to be
bothered.  I have translated menus before for various restaurants, and
they don't come back for new ones because they aren't used.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

Cindy Hallenbeck

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Subject: Re: Art and the Blind
From: Cindy.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Cindy Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi, Ann,

I don't know much about other projects that have been created.  I guess
that what the problem is about special projects for the blind is that
they are just for the blind.  The argument is that many art projects,
particularly since there are so many good replicas of important pieces,
should be available for the entire public to touch.  Touch is important
to everyone, not just the blind.  I can agree with this theory that all
should be able to touch.  This particular project started out as a
project specifically for the blind, and I doubt there is any way around
its appearing that way, but it is open to anyone to touch and encourages
it in its brochure.

Cindy Hallenbeck

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Subject: Re: Screen Reader
From: Rick.Alfaro@f8.n369.z1.fidonet.org (Rick Alfaro)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:369/8 - The Catwalk BBS, Davie FL


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 JD> I used Screen Reader at Carleton University last year when they
 JD> were evaluating it as a possible software to use with the
 JD> Dektalk.  I did not like using the seperate keypad myself, but
 JD> there was one fellow who had been using Screen Reader for some
 JD> time, and he could certainly make this software perform.
 JD> What does all this say?
 JD> The seperate keypad may not be a hinderance at all, once you
 JD> get used to it.

Jeff,

This is true.  It all boils down to what you are used to.  Your typing
and reading habbits mold themselves around what you have at your
disposal.  In my case, I can tell you that my particular style of typing
and reviewing / checking my work would be slowed down by a seperate
keypad to deal with.

Regards,
Rick

... Strike it RICH, with Silver Xpress!

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Internet: Rick.Alfaro@f8.n369.z1.fidonet.org




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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2917 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU