HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 2 Oct 1992 21:48:51 GMT
Organization: sgi
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com

In article <1aiecvINN9m4@travis.csd.harris.com>, steve@rcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Steve Brosky) writes:


|> The ones who had lots of body hair before shaving turn into porcupines -- 
|> who could possibly enjoy being up against them?  

Me.  Completely smooth? Feh... Stubbly? Yow! gimme more!

 
|> If you're going to shave your body why not just wear lots of makeup
|> too.  Then you can look just like the porno-movie clones that I
|> detest so much.

Or, you can look like someone with a shaving fetish.



FWA
From: kellyc@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: My Very Own Out List
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:59:56 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland


(Bah the references on this would drive one scatty, and they're not that 
important)

Jess, quoting others, posted the following:

> ]>->Agnes Moorehead			actor (notably, in Bewitched)
> 
> ]>arguably, an actress ...
> 
> ]A word which is, like authoress and aviatrix, falling into
> ]disuse.  (In my circles, at any rate, and those of magazine
> ]writers I read.)
> 
> Relevant quote:
> 
> <> Being called a poetess brings out the terroristress in me.
> <> -- Audre Lorde


The Irish Council for the Status of Women have asked the organisers of the 
National Ploughing Competition to drop the term `farmerette' when referring 
to women. From what I recall, they introduced they term in the 1950's when 
they initiated a separate competition for women ploughers.

Which draws something to my attention. I've never heard a woman referred to 
as a farmer - they're all either "farmer's wives", or else the "owners of 
farms".

Cathal

---------------------------------------------
|     Cathal Kelly                             
|     Ollscoil Luimnigh (Uni. Limerick),    For the benefit of 
|     National Technological Park,          the non-Irish the
| IRL Limerick                              't' in 'Cathal' is       |
|                                           silent and the name      |
      (Ireland)                             is attached to the       |
                                            male of the species.     |
      kellyc@ul.ie                                                   | 
                                --------------------------------------
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: 5 Oct 92 02:29:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct5.022910.12988
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <67178@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Michael Thomas postures:
>>  You know, I always thought that bears were omnivorous. You know,
>>  Turn in your card.
>You're not even a *MEMBER* of the BearCabal, much less one of the 
>Ruling Ursines.

Would it be rude to say "You'd be a handsome puss if you just grew a beard?"
:-) :-)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: mcmelmon@aruba.apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Phyllis Schaffly's son John . . . COMES OUT NATIONALLY!
Date: 27 Sep 92 23:47:11 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Sep25.220516.19097@PacBell.COM>, rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod
Williams) wrote:

[my stuff deleted]
 
> ...or, as our transatlantic friends might say,
> "*I'm* all right, Jack."

Much as it pains me to admit, I went overboard on this one.  I do not,
however, recall advocating policies of discrimination.  The 'parody'
struck me as a trite little piece of crap at the time, and it still
does.  This does not, however, remove the harsh reality that discrimination
is a reality.  There are certainly people trapped in situations they
have no easy escape from; and yes, while I am in a very pleasant
environment, I shouldn't be so quick to dismiss their suffering.

But where did this all come from in the first place?  I suppose it is
by virtue of Republican-hood?  Robin Hood?  Prince of Theives?

Is Kevin Kostner (sp?) *fine*, or what?

I'd take *him* for an evil twin any ol' day o' da week, yes I would. 

Matthew Melmon
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: on Cinemax in October
Date: 30 Sep 92 05:30:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep30.053010.4200
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <lche4uINNpjs@spim.mti.sgi.com> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Brave Jeff Dauber) writes:
[About Poison]
>I must tell you that it has been out on video for about 6 months now...

It has? Hmm, I wonder if I'm ever likely to find the movie anywhere to
rent. I don't think Portland has a lesbigay-inclusive movie rental
place that isn't just porno.

>I hated the movie, I thought it was overhyped and not that focussed.

And I liked the movie, a lot, so there. I want to see his Karen
Carpenter thing - is it possible to see it?
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/  Homosexuals were invented for an episode of Barney Miller
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Subject: Re: same sex marriages
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:55:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.171604.282@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>The DP benefits
>struggle is about equitable treatment in the workplace, for
>gay *and* unmarried straight couples, for employees to provide
>for their partners and families in the same way that married
>employees can.

Rod, it seems that the approach recently in Canada and in some
states has been using the "equal treatment" provisions of the
consitution and of the fundie retoric to successfully argue
for equal treatment and benefits under the law regardless of
the marital status or of the sex of partners.  Do you know how
successful this sort of argument has been on the individual
employer level?

It seems obvious that benefits offered to partners who are in
a union which just happens to be legally recognized by an
ignorant (and hating) government should not have extras
afforded to them for free based on their marital status.
Also, partners in a union should not be judge because of their
sex.

-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com          voice: 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      609 Science Drive          Moorpark, CA  93021 
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
-=>NOTE:  The feed to tdbear@tandon.com may be interrupted in Sept.<=-
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: ***APOLOGY*** (kindly read me)
Date: 29 Sep 92 02:52:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep29.025213.28312
Organization: insert anything here

Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling) writes:

	At last, *pathos!*

	You *almost* got it....  Quayle was too easy... if you *really*
*REALLY* had wanted to get at me BIG TIME....

	:g/Quayle/s//Gore/g

[No, I don't like DQ, but I really dislike AG.]

	Oh well... 8 out of 10 for effort and wit.  See, I knew
you had it in you...  and no namecalling.  Good job.

(Those motss-folk who know of what I speak can pick yourselves off of the 
floor now...)

BBC, the bearcub behind
the Quayle mask behind the
other mask.


P.S. Now, let';s find some things we can *agree* upon.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Camille Paglia on fashion (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 3 Oct 92 01:35:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct3.013550.12748
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <mattm-021092154625@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>Jeff Dauber?  Dauber?  Are you a member of the Cabal?  You ain't no
>Jezibel.
>Certainly no Dolphie.  JackOff, no. Queer without a Clue, no.  Melinda, no.
>Donna Who, no.  Yes, indeed.  Who?

Matthew, motss has a history longer than the 4 weeks since you were hired
at Apple.  FWA was resting.

>Who are you, darling?  And are you vested with the full authority of Those
>Who Reign Supremes?  

Why Dauber's Dancing Dong(le) is responsible for the destruction of
civilization as we know it.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: vbsupdi@prism.gatech.EDU (DANNY INGRAM)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Not the only one!
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:22:19 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

All this time I thought I was the only "family" member in the computer
business.  It certainly is comforting to know I am not alone.  This 
news group was a wonderful discovery for me.  This is the first time I am
posting.  Do any of you use Oracle Financials or attend the bi-annual 
Oracle Applications User Group?  Financials seems like such a 
conservative environment.  It would be nice to know I am not alone there 
either.
                                      Home at last,
                                      Danny Ingram
-- 
DANNY INGRAM
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!vbsupdi
Internet: vbsupdi@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants)
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 15:33:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.141504.8969@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>>For the record, I'm a Lacto-Ovo-Vegetarian [or as a friend of mine
>>puts it, I "don't eat Dead Animal Body"].  
>
>	Hmmmm...  I'm a second-order vegetarian.  I only eat animals
>that only eat vegetables.
>
>BBC

I very much love animals.  That's why I eat 'em.\
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sex Pumps (was Re: demuffining)
Date: Sat,  3 Oct 92 14:23:01 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Oct2.153143.1537@fig.citib.com>

Greg Parkinson writes:
>|> Forget the razor.  You just have to use enough of the right
>|> kind of lubricant to form a seal.  This does get a bit messy,
>|> I concede. 
>
>"right kind of lubricant"?  Would that be something like
>LARD I mean Crisco-type stuff or motor oil or Yak Fat or
>what? 

This was some time back, but as I recall it was more along
the lines of the "Crisco type stuff".  The kind that's been 
whipped with glycerine and Polysorbate-80 so it doesn't take
a pint of Dawn(tm) to wash it out of your pubes.

(Just had a thought... if they gave the stuff a pleasing flavor
[HAS anyone researched a synthetic cum flavor? ;-{)##], it would
be possible to have a friend *eat* you clean....)
 
() In general, I'm in favour of hedonistic and
() self-destructive activity.
()      -- Paul Crowley (aipdc@castle.ed.ac.uk)
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: pc@linus.mitre.org (Penny Chase)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Phyllis Schlafly Still Doesn't Get It
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:44:13 GMT
	<2AC9EA02.20216@ics.uci.edu>
Organization: Research Computer Facility, The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA


In article <2AC9EA02.20216@ics.uci.edu> tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy
Tittle Moore) writes:

   In <1992Sep30.172545.1483@tc.cornell.edu>
   shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

   >In article <1992Sep30.170443.29422@PacBell.COM>
   >rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
   >|"That's what we've had in this country for 20 years," Schlafly
   >|said, "a nonjudgmental description of all kinds of sex acts
   >|with demonstrations of how to do it, and with an attempt to
   >|break down the natural modesty of the girls."

   >I feel cheated.  Is it too late to return to high school?

   I dunno, I've obviously been cheated too, and I was in high school
   within the last 20 years.  Where *does* she find these places?

Well, I went to Hunter College High School within the last 21 years,
and we did have a very progressive sex ed course.  We learned about
physiology of sex, the Kinsey report, contraception, etc.  The message
clearly was to wait, but you should know what it's all about.  Of
course we took sex ed when we were Juniors, which was a bit late for
some... (Not me, I was confused back then)

	Penny
--
UUCP:  { ... }!linus!pc 
INTERNET:  pc@mitre.org
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Fun with the Hopeless, at least (was Re: Faggots)
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:58:24 GMT


In article <1992Sep25.020546.8074@microsoft.com>, bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
|> 
|> Justin's wording could use a lot of work, but what he essentially says
|> is pretty harmless:  he has a negative physical reaction at the thought 
|> of gay sex.  So fucking what?  No one has the responsibility to respond
|> positively to gay sex.
|> 
|> Many gay men think that sex with a woman is disgusting.  They're not saying 
|> that straight sex is evil or immoral; just that they personally have a 
|> strong aversion to it.  

So this guy walks into the women's center at Yale in the
late 70's in search of assistance with lighting his
cigarette.  Seeing himself in the midst of so much
female flesh he says in as suave a voice as he can
summon "Hey, any of you girls got a match?"

Clued in by the hostile stares and complete silence
that he's done something wrong he re-evaluates the
situation and realizes where he is.  He smiles and
says "I guess that's "girls" with a "y", eh?"

There are some people posting in soc.motss currently
who would probably say that the "gyrls" gave a hearty
laugh and welcomed him into their space, sharing their
tofu salads and sandal maintenance techniques.  There
are others who would say that the guy was most probably
deservedly castrated.  

Who's who is left as an exercise to the reader.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: This Ya Gotta See
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:30:27 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

In article <1992Sep30.015538.17010@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>>In article <72893@apple.Apple.COM>, mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>>|> Little as I like Mr. Anderson, this is pretty horrid.
>>Motss always has one bozo.  Let me guess, you are the current one...
>
>	Actually it's Olympics season here on soc.motss.  We have a real
>race going on for the gold medal, and (CSMPRS+TS) oh, say 8 people
>vying for the title.  All post from the US, so there's no contest to
>find that the US will sweep in soc.motss.dweeb competition.
>
[deletion]
>
>	(Ahem!)  Gee if it were only simple to award the gold, silver and
>bronze and know we'd be done with this crap for the next 4 years..., eh?
>

I always say its the fans that make this the great sport
that is today.

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
Xref: sparky soc.motss:42071 soc.bi:13485
From: randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: gay science fiction (and a moment of shamelessness...)
Date: 7 Oct 92 01:30:27 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA


I think this fits the shamelessnes theme best.

In article <1992Oct5.192715.1849@netcom.com> stephena@netcom.com
(Stephen Arrants) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.174614.20793@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com
(Steve Dyer) writes:
>>
>>Last time I checked, the Lone Star and My Place were on Planet Earth... :-)
>
>Just barely. The Lone Star is the Faux Outlaw Fun Ride (One E ticket) in some
>strange Disneyworld.

	Well put.  Though if you think it's outlandish,
	what would you make of Warmoestraat in Amsterdam,
	I wonder.
	
	(This street is their analogue to Folsom St.
	-- a smaller area, but the scene is, well, *more*.

	(Credit here to FJ!! for taking me there.)

>My Place is too dark to do anything but spill your beer
>and say Excuse me to the folks you stepped on.

	It's quite clear you weren't there following the
	Folsom St. Fair.

	There, I've gone and dropped my, er, beads.

	But you're right, Stephen, about My Place on most
	mundane nights -- not terribly exciting.

	-R


--
Ignorant people think it's the *noise* which fighting cats make
that is so aggravating, but it ain't so; it's the sickening
grammar they use.  -- Mark Twain
Randy Clark			{}!autodesk.com!randyc
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Camille Paglia on fashion (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 06:36:15 GMT

In article <mattm-021092154625@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew 
Melmon) writes:
>Wait a minute...
>
>Jeff Dauber?  Dauber?  Are you a member of the Cabal?  You ain't no
>Jezibel.
>Certainly no Dolphie.  JackOff, no. Queer without a Clue, no.  Melinda, no.
>Donna Who, no.  Yes, indeed.  Who?
>
>Who are you, darling?  And are you vested with the full authority of Those
>Who Reign Supremes?  

He certainly is.  And it's probably safe to say that he is the most visible
regular poster to soc.motss.  

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Xref: sparky soc.motss:41016 news.answers:3153
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: enough already.
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:54:21 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: world		


Hi, it's me, the Redmond Butch Unit (thank you, Anderson).

As far as I concerned, my part in this issue has pretty much been 
closed for a week or so now.  I have expressed my views; I don't think
anyone (even markm) can claim that I have been nebulous or unclear,
and that's about the end of it.  I have won a few converts, and pissed
a few more off, but that's life.  

I have learned that there are several hundred people who read this group, 
and a dozen or so active posters.  And this dozen or so bitterly resent 
anyone who disagrees with their gay political gospel, and will stridently and 
screamingly tell them so.  But then again, that is what I was warned to 
expect; imagine my total surprise when the prediction came true. :^)

At the moment, I am actually quite busy with Ronzone and Cramer, who 
are both treating me as their worst nightmare:  a gay with the arguments 
to embarass and defeat them.  They are infinitely more fun than anderson,
markm, and adolphso, who both insist they ignore me while simultaneously 
being unable to resist the urge to post responses to me.  Go figure.

I owe Laura an explanation, because I promised her that if she did post,
I would respond.  But with that single exception, the issue is closed for
me.

However, I will be watching to see what goes on.  Actually, *WE* will be
watching.  Alan, Melmon, and I have formed the Anti-Cabal, the force of 
Good to balance the Evil Cabal.  The forces of Good will endeavor to
provide Order in the Universe, so be forewarned . . .

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: will@wixer.cactus.org (Bill Staniewicz)
Subject: Requesting information about a poster
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 14:35:22 GMT

I was in a club last nite and they had a poster
hanging up I found very erotic.

It had two unclothed men embracing. Along the top
it said "Safe Sex"; Running along the left border
was "You are not immune"; In the top right is "Red
Hot+ Sex", Now Available".

There was no other information on the poster that
I could read and I couldnt take it off the wall to
look on the back.

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this poster?
Who distributes it? Also, the "Now Available" statement
leads me to believe it may be a print from a scene in
a movie. If it is, where can I get a copy to view?



-- 
Bill
will@wixer.cactus.org
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: astrology and YOU
Keywords: Astrology, bear shit  [as pointed out here, BBC]
Date: 3 Oct 92 07:58:40 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


Jess Anderson (anderson@macc.wisc.edu) wrote:
 
> You're talkin' dirt too, and you know it, evil creature!

Tra-la!

Natural behavior.

<*snap*>

--jns
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:20:29 GMT
X-Ob-Motss: none

In article <1992Oct5.183633.27628@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>Of course, you can be a vegetarian of any sort without caring a damn
>>about animals, usually due to concerns for one's own health (since a
>>diet which excludes meat is usually lower in fat and saturated fats.)
>Not to mention the antibiotics and other biologically active
>chemicals in typical commercial animal feeds.

I recommend skipping the animal feeds and going directly for the animal.

_Trust me on this_: the dangers of antibiotic supplementation come not
from any residues in the dairy or meat of such animals, but from their
effect on the development of antibiotic resistance in the larger
bacterial pool in the environment at large.  The residues of additives
found in such animals are in subpharmacological amounts, or simply
don't appear in the first place.  This is not an argument in favor of
such additives; I'm just trying to put it in perspective.  People who
don't understand the scale of what we're talking about tend to make
this a bogeyman of the same proportion as the saturated fats in such
foods, or air pollution or (dare I say it) cigarette smoking, when in
fact, it's more like the dangers of drinking orange juice because of
the potassium it contains, since there's always some natural radioactive
isotopes of potassium in all sources of potassium.  Also, orange juice
contains methanol, or wood alcohol, which we all know is a poison.
Neither is a reason to avoid orange juice.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: 01klcampbell@bsu-ucs.uucp (Kenton Campbell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Frozen Green Tomatoes (mild spoilers)
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:40:12 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Distribution: usa

In article <tdober-051092130122@toberkamper.llnl.gov>, tdober@llnl.gov (TDO) writes:
> In article <thaaang.718233431@cwis>, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John
> Dorrance) wrote:
> 
>> I was convinced during the bee-taming scene.
> 
> That was the scene that convinced me, too. (At least I think it was--if I
> remember right, at the very end of the scene, Ruth kisses Idgie, who looks
> completely (and delightedly) stunned. As I watched this scene, I was
> thinking, "Zing! went the strings of my heart!")

Ruth kisses Idgie at the end of the scene where they're drunk and playing
poker at the river.  It was Ruth's birthday, she got drunk, learned to play
poker and baseball, and then they went swimming in the river.


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Kenton L. Campbell --------------------- 01klcampbell@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu --
---- Ball State University ---------------- 01klcampbell@BSUVAX1.BITNET -----
---- Muncie, IN --------------------------- campbell@bsu-cs.bsu.edu ---------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss