From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Witches and death
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:46:37 GMT

Paul Harvey (pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us) wrote:

: Have you read E. Kubla Ross's On Death and Dying? Have you read the
: Tibetian Book of the Dead, or other Books of the Dead?

I assume you are referring to Elizabeth Kubler-Ross.  Her work is quite
refreshing, as is the works of Dr. Ramond Moody and Kenneth Ring.

: >To people, of course. Just like my thoughts on this may be useless to
: >you, causing you to reject them. If enough people reject them, they die,
: >as ideas, especially after my own biological death.
: 
: I won't reject them, but most likely I will not read exactly what you
: write. See what I'm saying? I reflect what you say into my own reality.
: I am not you, I am that I am. I see the world differently than you do.
: But, that is not bad, is it?

Not to you or I or perhaps Bill.  Others feel differently.

: >I expect this thing we call modern paganism to suffer exactly the same
: >fate. When I compare 80's and 90's paganism with sixties and seventies
: >paganism, already much has been lost, and already the lowest common
: >denominator rears it's ugly head, imposing a ethic-default doctrine of
: >"Do the right thing", or the oxymoronic "An ye harm none, do what ye
: >will", on all of us collectively.

The problem with "harming none" comes at the idea that "harm is bad".  That
mentality is incompatible with the philosophy of karma, which is closely tied
with reincarnation.  Harm done to another, if fulfilling karma and not done
as a means to a non-karmic end, might impose negative karma on the "harmer".
If it's deliberate, it's going to come back and bite you on the butt.  If it's
not, perhaps it's karma for someone else.  If I, through no fault of my own,
"harm" someone else, that's not my problem, yet someone else has been hurt.

: Cycles come and go I suppose. Heads go down like the sun. If it's any
: consolation, I doubt modern paganism can suffer the same fate as
: Christianity. There is only room for one "common denominator" or
: mass-market product and that slot is occupied by Christianity which will
: continue to evolve to better fit its niche. After all, Christianity
: represents the combination of the scriptures of Judaism, the light and
: dark dualism of Persia and the Lord of the Underworld of Greco/Roma.
: Christianity was the "modern paganism" of its time. I suspect "convert
: or die" was a fairly effective marketing technique.

I agree.

: >The more it happens, the less willing I am to call myself 'pagan'. But
: >that's my problem, not yours. if you are happy with your paganism, and
: >seek nothing more, fine.
: 
: Well, to tell you the truth, I don't call myself any "ism". I am that I
: am. I learn from all dogmas and reflect into the reality of myself. I am
: not constrained by what anyone else thinks I should be.

Well, then don't call yourself *anything*.  Who needs the label?  If someone
asks me, I tell 'em I'm a "Shamanistic Zen Pagan Christian".  Gives 'em fits!

: >What more do I desire? I desire simply that we talk about important
: >things; life, death, sex, wisdom, community, replicability, survival,
: >raw experience, on and on... Things all pagans share, whatever their
: >mythology.

Especially about sex!  :) :)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG                  erc@apple.com                     801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"