HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: The end of the Reagan Era
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:51:02 GMT

In <1992Nov16.171038.21117@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:

>fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
>[to JFHII]
>: I think it's high time you pulled your head out of your ass and
>: started thinking instead of being what you are.  
>: 
>: And how did you explain YOUR posting volume of the past, which you
>: lowered not because of WORK, but because of a pregnant wife?  Maybe
>: YOU spend all your time at work posting stuff, but my postings are
>: 99%+ from HOME.

>YOU could do some head-pulling yourself.  JFH posts 100% from home.  He owns
>rpp386, and runs his own feed.

Well, goody goody gumdrops for HIM.  I think you deliberately miss the
point here.  I don't care if Mr. Haugh posts via satellite link from
Shangri La.  His latest little 'tactic' is probably one of the most
ill-mannered asshole things I've ever seen done -- so I guess it
should probably come as no surprise that Mr. Haugh would resort to it.
Shall we also question YOUR posting volume, John?  You're posting from
a commercial site in the middle of the day.  Should we question YOU
about 'giving some of that productivity to IBM'?  This is a typical
tactic of an intellectually bankrupt individual who disagrees and has
no arguments on their side.  Well, I'm not going away, Mr. Haugh.

[Actually, judging by the times, I'd say that you are probably posting
during your lunch hour.  In any case, IT IS NONE OF *MY* BUSINESS TO
EVEN RAISE THE ISSUE.  Just as it is none of Mr. Haugh's business
whether I post from the office in the middle of the day or from my
desk at home, as I am doing now.  Only the scummiest of individuals
would even try to make it an issue -- which seems an appropriate
description of Mr. Haugh, judging by his actions that we've seen here
over the months.]

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.perot
From: emmett@kpc.com (Emmett Kilgariff)
Subject: Re: Vietnam Memorial (was Vietnam Moratorium)
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer Inc, Santa Clara, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:54:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.022255.13693@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1drm67INNftp@armory.centerline.com> thomaso@centerline.com (Thomas Andrews) writes:
>>If there is anybody out there who has not been to the Vietnam Memorial,
>>I recommend it.  I am too young to have known anybody who died in
>>Vietnam, but the wall brought tears to my eyes anyway.
>
>I agree whole-heartedly.
>
>It's a good thing Ross Perot didn't have his way.  He fought kicking
>and screaming against having an Asian woman design the memorial, even
>to the point of having the members of the memorial selection committee 
>followed.

	I know this is just syntax, but... Did he prevent the 
Asian-American (not Asian) woman from designing the memorial, or did
he fight kicking and screaming against a design already completed, 
that was done by an Asian-American Woman?



Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:24116 tx.politics:7504 talk.politics.misc:60830
From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,tx.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: The end of the Reagan Era
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:20:59 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Montagar Software Concepts, Plano TX

In article <1992Nov17.144325.17643@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> In <1992Nov16.170523.41439@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:
>>fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
>>: And what happens if a couple of guys who live at the end of the block
>>: don't want to 'chip in'?
> 
>>If we can't afford it without their support, then we don't build the road.  If
>>we can, and we think it's worth it, then we build it anyway and either charge
>>them toll (if it's worth enforcing), or we let them use it for free.
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Some people sneak into movie theaters.  Does this mean that we should institute
>>a tax on all popcorn sales, and provide free-admission movie theaters to
>>everybody?  Or does it make more sense to put up with some free-riders as a cost
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>of doing business and only charge people who go to the movies?

	Well, since John has already stated that he believes that people
will only do what it takes to get by, we can guess what kind of neighboor
he would be.  John just does not want to share.

	I think we can just put in a street with a HIGH curb, and run the
curb all the way across the front of his house.  Of course, we'll sue him for
any damages that may occur to OUR curb if he decides he doesn't like it...

> Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
David L. Cathey		                |INET: davidc@montagar.com
Montagar Software Concepts              |UUCP: ...!montagar!davidc
P. O. Box 260772, Plano TX  75026-0772  |Fone: (214)-618-2117
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:24072 alt.politics.marrou:2329 soc.history:9502
From: jbp@rti.rti.org
Subject: Re: Vietnam Memorial (was Vietnam Moratorium)
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 01:37:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.012818.1307@cbnews.cb.att.com> jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp) writes:
>thf2@midway.uchicago.edu (ted frank) writes:
>>thomaso@centerline.com (Thomas Andrews) writes:
>>>If there is anybody out there who has not been to the Vietnam Memorial,
>>>I recommend it.  I am too young to have known anybody who died in
>>>Vietnam, but the wall brought tears to my eyes anyway.
>>...
>>It's a good thing Ross Perot didn't have his way.  He fought kicking
>>and screaming against having an Asian woman design the memorial, even
>>to the point of having the members of the memorial selection committee
>>followed.
>
>I also find it fascinating that Ross Perot and friends led the fight to
>erect the "more fitting" statue of three soldiers near the reviled Wall.
>Today, the statue interests few but the Wall moves one and all.

Speak for yourself.  I think that statue perfectly summarizes the
whole war and find it one of the most moving statues I have ever seen
in my life.  The wall is awsome too.  In fact, the whole memorial
is the best I have ever seen.  Particularly at night.  The end product 
is wonderful, and it wouldn't surprise me that Ross Perot had something 
to do with it.  Perhaps we should concern ourselves with product -- not 
process.
-- 
John Posthill
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc,tx.politics,alt.politics.bush
From: dcosley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Daniel R Cosley)
Subject: Re: Isolationist?
Summary: Free markets and depressions
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 20:13:36 GMT

ted frank claims that free markets would never have gotten the U.S. out of the
Great Depression.  Of course, we'll never know how it would have done, but is 
he trying to say that FDR's policies did any better?  Don't forget that 
governmental actions helped get us INTO the Depression... and that the 
Depression actually got worse under FDR and he needed the requirements of 
wartime production to get this country's goods-producing machinery back in 
working order.  I'd have to say that non-free-market policies didn't do a very 
effective job...
-- 
Dan  ***  dcosley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
*******************************************
Disclaimer: Due to budget constraints, The Ohio State University cannot afford 
to express official university opinions on Usenet.
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:24239 alt.politics.perot:5616
From: sichermn@beach.csulb.edu (Jeff Sicherman)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: Vietnam Memorial (was Vietnam Moratorium)
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:03:09 GMT
Organization: Cal State Long Beach

In article <1992Nov21.013742.13189@rti.rti.org> jbp@rti.rti.org writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.012818.1307@cbnews.cb.att.com> jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp) writes:
>>thf2@midway.uchicago.edu (ted frank) writes:
>>>thomaso@centerline.com (Thomas Andrews) writes:
>>>>If there is anybody out there who has not been to the Vietnam Memorial,
>>>>I recommend it.  I am too young to have known anybody who died in
>>>>Vietnam, but the wall brought tears to my eyes anyway.
>>>...
>>>It's a good thing Ross Perot didn't have his way.  He fought kicking
>>>and screaming against having an Asian woman design the memorial, even
>>>to the point of having the members of the memorial selection committee
>>>followed.
>>
>>I also find it fascinating that Ross Perot and friends led the fight to
>>erect the "more fitting" statue of three soldiers near the reviled Wall.
>>Today, the statue interests few but the Wall moves one and all.
>
>Speak for yourself.  I think that statue perfectly summarizes the
>whole war and find it one of the most moving statues I have ever seen
>in my life.  The wall is awsome too.  In fact, the whole memorial
>is the best I have ever seen.  Particularly at night.  The end product 
>is wonderful, and it wouldn't surprise me that Ross Perot had something 
>to do with it.  Perhaps we should concern ourselves with product -- not 
>process.

  If one is just judging the memorial itself, I would agree with you -
that we should focus on the product and largely ignore the process.
However, the real issue of the thread was how Perot's participation
in the process reflected his values and his methods of accomplishing
things, especially when he personally disagreed with some aspect of
either the product or the process. In this light, the criticisms
should be viewed as judgments on his actions, not on the memorial or
its parts.

-- 
Jeff Sicherman
up the net without a .sig
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:23962 talk.politics.misc:60456 tx.politics:7393
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc,tx.politics
Subject: Re: The end of the Reagan Era
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:56:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <1992Nov15.144224.15439@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> Nothing makes me think they do NOW.  Wouldn't YOU expect some changes
> if we did away with bankruptcy protection?  I sure would.
 
Whether a company is worth more split up or whole has nothing to do with
bankruptcy protection.  Besides, I suggested reforming the system, not
doing away with it.
 
> And just how many years running have the auto industry and the airline
> industry been losing money?  What I am saying is not analogous to what
> you claim at all, unless you can point to half a dozen or more years
> in a row where there were huge losses in the auto industry as a whole.
> 
> [And the auto industry in this country IS in trouble -- did that
> escape your notice?]
 
Fred, you haven't pointed out any huge losses in any industry because 
you haven't contributed a single data point to this discussion.  You've
only made assertions.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:23960 talk.politics.misc:60454 tx.politics:7391
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc,tx.politics
Subject: Re: The end of the Reagan Era
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:03:23 GMT
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <21852@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
> As for the current quality, a recent Baldridge award article gave
> defects per vehicle at .7 for Japanese and American cars.  With
> repairs, maintenance, and insurance being lower for American cars,
> it's pretty stupid to jump up and down about how great Japanese cars
> are.
 
I've never seen any data that shows American and Japanese cars at the same
level of defects.  Clearly the difference has fallen dramatically but I
believe there is still a difference.  Where are you getting your
information about repairs and maintenance costs?
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.marrou,talk.politics.misc,soc.history
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Isolationist?
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 21:17:34 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.164537.7160@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
> Yes, but England wouldn't have withstood as long as it did if the
> US hadn't taken sides long before Pearl Harbor.  Japan wouldn't
> have even bombed Pearl Harbor if it wasn't for the United States
> refusing to sell oil to it -- but that's "meddling" in the Libertarian
> view of the world.

  One thing that you seem to be forgetting is that the libertarian
position is one of *governmental* isolation. There is nothing to
say that fundraising etc. could not have taken place to send bullets
and beans to the UK. 
  In some respects, this sort of private action might have been *more*
effective since the government had to be very careful about the diplomatic
implications of funding the UK. A private effort would have no such
compunction. 
  Not being the world's policeman does not have to mean that you,
as an individual, have to ignore all atrocities around the world.

> One might ask the same for you.  Do you think the Japanese would've
> attacked Pearl Harbor if Libertarians running the government refused
> to have an oil embargo against the Japanese?  

  Are you trying to say that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor because
of the Oil Embargo? Everything I've heard is that they did it as a
pre-emptive strike because they were worried that we'd soon become 
involved. I really don't think the Japanese had taking over the US
for our oil in mind when they bombed Pearl Harbor.

> For that matter, even if
> the Japanese would've bombed PH anyway, despite getting all the oil
> they wanted from the Libertarian-Americans, do you really think the
> Libertarian US would've gotten involved in Europe?

  They did declare war on us after Pearl Harbor. I think that would
have been sufficient provocation, don't you? Besides, it was no
secret that the Axis powers were allied. 
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:23899 alt.politics.reform:60 alt.politics.usa.misc:592 alt.activism:18856
From: igb@fulcrum.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Subject: Re: REAL CANADIAN HISTORY FOR AMERICANS
Organization: Fulcrum Communications
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:58:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.145703.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> 4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (Dark Lord of the Sith) writes:
> Today everyone remembers Auschwitz... noone wants to remember Dresden.
> And in conservative Canada, veterans in the Senate began a show trial to
> hang two film makers who dared tell the truth about Dresden. (David Irving
> .... the pre-Holocaust denier Irving....wrote an excellent book on this
> aspect of the war. )

I'd say that in Europe, Dresden is a major issue.  Demonstrators
throwing eggs at Elizabeth Windsor makes good copy...

ian
 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc,tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: The end of the Reagan Era
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 01:17:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Jim Pritchett (jdp@caleb.UUCP) wrote:
: Ok, I'll take the bait.  Explain to us just what was unreasonable about the
: Pennsylvania laws.

Do you even know what the 5 provisions were that were the issue in _Planned
Parenthood v. Casey_?

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
"Look, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a
 system of government"
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.marrou,soc.history
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Blockades
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:12:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.171602.2772@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>International law? If a blockade is declared, you enter a blockade zone at your
>own risk. I believe there were instances where US ships were turned back from
>Germany in the early stages of the war. I do not know of any instance of a 
>US ship attempting to run the blockade. 
>
>What the Germans did that was fundamentally different from what most nations at
>the time were doing (though it would be copied later) was declare "unrestricted
>submarine" warfare. ANY traffic thought to bound for Britain and later the
>USSR was subject to attack without warning. Surface blockades are much more
>limited, and involve a warning to otherwise neutral shipping. They do not,
>however, necessarily appear to be less effective.

I disagree.  Surface blockades are less effective when you don't have
a surface blockadable fleet.  In World War I, German submarines attempted
to follow the "standard" procedures for a blockade, would surface, ask
for the ship to turn back, and then find their submarine being rammed by
the ship in question.  A submarine can be challenged.  A more conventional
ship can't.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc,tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: The end of the Reagan Era
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 22:41:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.150305.18679@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> Of COURSE they favour OPEC.  I'm not sure why this is germane.
> Actually, it makes more sense for them to stay IN OPEC, no matter what
> their goals, because they're the biggest dog in the pack and can have
> things more their own way than if they just walked out. 
 
How so?  If I really want to increase production, and the rest of the
cartel favors strong controls, what happens if I leave the cartel? 
If they continue to keep their production low it will hurt them since my
increased production will be driving prices lower.  Their only alternative
is to increase production, which is what I wanted in the first place.
 
> You don't HAVE to, but then I don't think anyone ever said anything
> about nations acting out of GOOD WILL -- it is all, of course,
> enlightened self-interest.  That's why they give us those kinds of
> price breaks, and that's why we're willing to help them defend
> themselves.  Mutual advantage.
 
And I'm agreeing that it's enlighted self-interest, but it has nothing to
do with trying to help the US out.  It has everything to do with the fact
that a country that cheats on a cartel has a real economic gain.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: jovanovic-nick@cs.yale.edu (Nick Jovanovic)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: RFD: alt.loathing.bob-dole
Date: 18 Nov 1992 15:26:28 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: zoo-gw.cs.yale.edu

In article <1ebdcvINN649@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> jcorwin@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (James C Spencer) writes:
>jovanovic-nick@cs.yale.edu (Nick Jovanovic) writes:
>
>>>In article <1992Nov16.163109.27953@samba.oit.unc.edu> dil.admin@mhs.unc.edu  
>>>(Dave Laudicina) writes:
>>>> I find it strange that Bob Dole can claim support from all the 
>>>> people voting for Perot. If Perot did not run his vote would most
>
>>My impression is that Bob Dole started campaigning for president in 1996
>>shortly after the Republican convention, when Bush's numbers just wouldn't
>>budge.  In Kansas, he made statements about Bush pulling everyone down
>>together.  Dole distanced himself from Bush in Kansas, giving usually
>>faithful Republicans the wink they needed to vote for someone else than 
>>Bush this year.  The result was that Perot got 27% of the vote in Kansas,
>>tied for second out of all the states, behind only Maine (30%).
>
>Actually, Utah voted 28% for Perot, enough for Perot to come in second in that 
>state.  Kansas had the third highest percentage for Perot.
>
>Being from Kansas, I also have to disagree with the assertion that Perot did    well here because Dole didn't support Bush.  I think that the Kansas voters
>were just interested in a change in the White House.  Most of the people that
>I know that voted for Perot didn't want to vote for Bush again and definitely
>didn't want to vote for Clinton ever.  Perot was the only reasonable alterna-
>tive for them.
>
How does your explanation differentiate Kansas from the rest of the country?
Perot did significantly better there than in the country as a whole, and
also better than in the states near Kansas.  I still think that difference
is possibly attributable to Dole's open criticism of Bush in Kansas.
>
>>I have no doubt that that 27% would have gone largely to Dole if he had
>>been the candidate instead of Bush.  My wife and I have relatives in
>>Kansas, and they all (independently) feel that Dole is preparing one last
>>thrust for the presidency in 1996.  I think (and hope) he would surely lose 
>>if the Republicans nominated him.  
>
>>-Nick
-Nick
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:23885 talk.politics.misc:60327 tx.politics:7365
From: tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc,tx.politics
Subject: Re: The end of the Reagan Era
Date: 16 Nov 92 03:42:34 GMT
Organization: Moria Mining Guild (BBS) -- Dallas, Texas, USA

In article <21856@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.041313.17006@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>No, you regularly post 10 or more articles PER DAY to tx.politics.  I

A half dozen or so people post about 75% of all the articles in this newsgroup.
Fred is no different than anyone else.

-- 
Tom Kimball  			tom@europa.lerctr.org    
tom@europa.lonestar.org		tom%europa@egsner.cirr.com
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:24125 talk.politics.misc:60871