HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mritchie@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael S Ritchie)
Subject: Re: Books in the time of Love
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:43:19 GMT

Does lust count?  MMy first significant physical relationship
became incredibly physical during one lust-crazed weekend off in
the country in a cabin where me and my SO were both reading
Even Cowgirls Get the Blues between . . . what's the word, clinches?
sessions?  trysts?  bouts?  No special tie with the content of the
novel, just fond memories.  I _won't_ go see the movie!
--Michael
From: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Literature Students/Small World
Date: 7 Oct 92 00:57:17 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens


maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick) writes:

>People do say things like "I didn't enjoy it, but I know it was
>good"; I regard this as an example of the willing submission to
>authority which made Fascism possible.


By contrast, W. H. Auden writes:

    As readers, we remain in the nursery stage so long as we cannot
    distinguish between taste and judgement, so long, that is, as the
    only possible verdicts we can pass on a book are two: this I like;
    this I don't like.
        For an adult reader, the possible verdicts are five: I can see
    this is good and I like it; I can see this is good but I don't like
    it; I can see this is good and, though at present I don't like it,
    I believe that with perseverance I shall come to like it; I can see
    that this is trash but I like it; I can see that this is trash and
    I don't like it.
                              (_A Certain World_, p.290-1)



                                              -- jf
From: ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Want some old NYTimes Book Reviews?
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:19:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.lch0gqINN9f
Reply-To: ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com


Anybody here interested in a big stack of Sunday NYTimes Book Reviews?

They're not totally trashed out, but they not in order or anything like
that.  Just several years' worth that have been piled in the closet.  (For
that matter, we've also got some Sunday NYTimes Magazines, too.)  Just as
soon they went to a loving home.

We're cleaning house and I figured I'd ask y'all before we went to the
recyclers.  

You never can tell.

NICHAEL  
nichael@bbn.com  --                Bush/Gorbachev: One Down, One to Go

(And no, you can't have just single issues; you want any, you gotta take'em
all.)
From: ric@updike.sri.com (Richard Steinberger)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: The NEW Yorker!
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:51:42 GMT

I am also really disappointed in The "new" New Yorker.  Tina Brown has taken
an extraordinarily good magazine and turned it into an ordinary New York
magazine.  The ads are obnoxious duplicates from Rolling Stone, Vogue,
Vanity Fair (Tina Brown's former home) and similarily slick NY pubs.  The
lead editorial continues to espouse a liberal philosophy (which I more or
less agree with), but it looses credibility when placed in a magazine
dripping with ads for overpriced trinkets, perfume, furs, et cetera.

The few articles I've read so far are not that bad (one concerned the
ridiculous nature of using a fetus for the Atlanta '96 Olympic Games
mascot; another was about the destruction of hurricane Andrew).  But
there's such an overwhelming volume of ads that one can't help but
believe that the "new" New Yorker's only interest is in catering to
advertisers.  And by the way, the ads are some of the most tasteless,
silly, pompous garbage ever assembled between two covers.

The artwork is hardly original.  Ms. Brown believes that by reproducing
banners and images of the magazine's early days, she can create the
aura and excitement of that time and the original New Yorker.  But
great magazines must continually reinvent themselves.  Ms. Brown has
basically thrown Vanity Fair, Town & Country, Vogue, Rolling Stone,
Esquire, and People into a Cuisinart: out comes the "new" New Yorker.

Tina Brown is essentially saying, "Fuck you!" to many of the magazine's
loyal readers.  "Style is everything, substance nothing," the epigram
of the Reagan years has triumphed again.

I feel like a good friend has been kidnapped and brainwashed.  I am
uncertain about resubscribing.  Hopefully many other people feel the
same way.

ric steinberger


PS - Is anyone interested in a rec.arts.magazines newsgroup?  Respond
to ric@updike.sri.com.


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Books in the time of Love
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 01:19:45 GMT

William R. Smith writes:

	Mark Taranto writes:

		And what about Sburgfort.  He must have some funny 
		story about trying to check into a motel with a 
		mysterious woman under his travelling name of William 
		Smith.  Perhaps one of these stories has an association 
		with a book he was reading at the time.

	When I was last falling in love, I was too busy playing grab 
	ass in the Owl's Nest in the Calgary Inn and watching Bugs 
	Bunny cartoons on TV while sharing truly awful bottles of red 
	wine from the Similkameen Valley of British Columbia.

Hey. The wine might have been lousy, but wasn't their squab the greatest 
ever? Calgary was -- out of doors -- a truly miserable place, but going
down to the Owl's nest was an experience non pareil. William Smith? Were 
you the Bill Smith that used to pimp for the girls over at the Wales? 
Maybe not.

The only wine I ever had in Canada that was truly pleasurable was a 
half-bottle of chateau lafitte I had up in Inouvik. I'd had enough of
dodging flying bottles at the local Inn, and, walking around, discovered
this little roof-top cafe -- Eagle's Eyrie? Two tables and some ham and
eggs and then, miraculously, this ancient bottle of the Real Stuff which,
by another miracle, had been kept at a reasonable temperature (understand
that "reasonable" in Inuvik is somewhat different to reasonable anywhere
else).

My only other memory of Alberta is that the people all appeared to be dour 
shits who lived in overheated, airless basements. No, they did not read
the Shagger Pagger in the local schools.

							Fido
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Dashiell Hammett
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:38:29 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project

I have sung the praises of Diane Johnson's *The True History of the
First Mrs. Meredith and Other Lesser Lives* but Ms Henderson has 
recently reminded me that Diane Johnson also wrote a biography of
Dashiell Hammett. Comments? DJ read from her novel, *Persian Nights*,
a couple of years ago at Printers Inc. in Palo Alto, and I was totally 
enchanted by her giggle. She inscribed my copy of *Lesser Lives*

	"with thanks for resurrecting this my _favorite_"

so perhaps that is the book to read.

								Fido
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jkimball@src.honeywell.com (John Kimball)
Subject: Re: Laura Ingalls Wilder
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:47:58 GMT

In article <92275.232159MRS110@psuvm.psu.edu> <MRS110@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>... About reading it to your kids--I never thought of
>this until it came up in a class of mine, but there are quite disturbing
>parts in "Little House On The Prairie" about American Indians.  about how ma
>smelled their terrible smell, and things of that sort.  I read something
>about how this young american indian woman grew up without knowledge of the
>books and then found that her parents had kept them from her because of the
>racist remarks within the stories.  ...

I know some parents who have read the LH books to their kids, and have just
skipped those sections in LHOTP.  I don't care for this solution; we use
those sections as an opportunity to discuss what happened to the native
americans when europeans came to this continent -- to try to give a
balanced view of both the pioneers and the indians.  This isn't too hard; 
I think Laura did a *reasonably* good job of describing their experiences,
and how the individuals in the family reacted to the indians, without being
prejudicial.

It's been a while since we read that one, but my memory is that: (a) Pa was
probably violating a treaty by moving the family into "Indian Territory" in
anticipation that the area would soon be opened for homesteading; (b)
despite this, Pa was more comfortable with and respectful of the indians
than Ma, who considered them barbarians and was [legitmately] frightened of
them.  I recall that when we read those sections of LHOTP we discussed what
a warrior is, how otherwise good/principled people may have racist
attitudes, and many other things.

(BTW -- there *are* some books where I do "real time editing" as I'm
reading them.  In those cases, I'm editing phraseology -- they are
situations where the author is using racist/sexist language unconsciously
[IMHO] and the choice of phraseology is not significant to the story
[again, IMHO].)
From: gxs11@po.CWRU.Edu (Gary Stonum)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Books in the time of school
Date: 6 Oct 1992 16:39:14 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: gxs11@po.CWRU.Edu (Gary Stonum)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


>In article <1992Oct3.175258.25914@cactus.org> kate@cactus.org (Katherine M. Catmull) writes:
>>As for books: I have an old habit of asking people "What's the book
>>that got you through high school?"--you know, the book that
>>kept you going, made you strong; that you re-read when in need of bucking up,
>>perhaps even returned to in college like a teddy bear once in a
>>while, maybe even occasionally now . . .

Heller's _Catch-22_, not as a teddy bear but as a badge of wise-guy
solidarity against the Authorities.  And not as solitary reading solace
but as public schtick.  A group of us used to call out and complete lines
from the book, provoking endless giggles from ourselves and 
occasionally tolerant glances from the Unwashed Who Hadn't Memorized
The Punch Line to "Read me back my last line."

Gary
-- 
      ||    Gary Lee Stonum                gxs11@po.cwru.edu    ||
      ||    English Department                  216-368-3342    ||
      ||    Case Western Reserve University                     ||
      ||    Cleveland, OH 44106-7117                            ||
From: igb@fulcrum.bt.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:50:57 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

In article <1992Oct6.135054.28346@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
> 	Which is why quite a lot of Shakespeare was left unperformed 
> 	for 300 years, of course.
> 
> Difficult to make out Ian's point. My '47 Lafitte Rothschild is only now
> coming into its own.  In his *Letter to Maria Gisborne* Shelley wrote

My point is that a lot of the stuff that wasn't performed wasm't
performed for a good cause: it isn't actually very good.  It's only the
cult of personality around it that renders it ``interesting'' and that
cult is a product of the last hundred years.  The example I was thinking
of was ``Two Gentlemen of Verona''.  It's a weak play: I doubt anyone
would seriously argue with that.  Why is it now performed?  If it were
not by Shakespeare, would anyone bother?  It wasn't performed in full
much between the time of the author and about 1930.

By contrast, consider Marlowe.  Much of his work dropped out of the
repertoire in the eighteenth century and has only recently --- and
rarely --- been performed.  There's no cult of personality, so the plays
are revived essentially by quality.  I'll bid you two Edwards II for one
Tamburlaine, etc.  Ditto Jonson.  Shadwell, even.

ian
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:06:04 GMT

In article <1ak4ugINN41n@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL) writes:
}Tim Starr writes:
}
}
}>But this is only pertinent to those who accept the justness of banning job
}>discrimination.  I don't.  If I had to choose between Elle Macpherson and
}>someone else (possibly male) who could, for example, type as well, I'd hire
}>Ms. Macpherson, you'd better believe it!  I should be so lucky...
}
}What would you do?   Watch her tits bobble up and down all day as she types? 
}And how would you accomodate her training schedule that keeps her body
}in shape --- or would ask her to give up modelling ?

Tsk, tsk.  The absent sense of humor of the person who takes everything too
literally.  You presume too much.  Frankly, I enjoy the company of beautiful
women sans staring at their tits, although I also enjoy that if and only if
under appropriate circumstances, appropriateness defined as not offending
the object of appreciation.

As for your other questions, I don't know.  I was giving an example to make
a point, which you appear to have missed entirely: employers have the right
to discriminate just as much as other have the right to discriminate against
being their customers or critique their inclusion of aesthetic criterion in
the qualifications for the positions they offer.

}Why should she be interested in scum like you ?

I never assumed that she would, silly.  I can't think of much reason why she'd
want anything I have to offer, to be honest, based on what little I know of
the lady.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Dashiell Hammett
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:24:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct6.152412.15350
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


Francis says 

>I have sung the praises of Diane Johnson's *The True History of the
>First Mrs. Meredith and Other Lesser Lives* but Ms Henderson has 
>recently reminded me that Diane Johnson also wrote a biography of
>Dashiell Hammett. Comments? DJ read from her novel, *Persian Nights*,
>a couple of years ago at Printers Inc. in Palo Alto, and I was totally 
>enchanted by her giggle. She inscribed my copy of *Lesser Lives*
>
>	"with thanks for resurrecting this my _favorite_"
>
>so perhaps that is the book to read.
							Fido


My favorite book by Diane Johnson is _The Shadow Knows_, which 
succeeded in producing in me a state of acute anxiety, a pervasive 
uncertainty and dread that drenched the atmosphere of my life for 
weeks after I'd finished reading it. 

I'm not sure this can be considered a recommendation, but this is 
certainly a book I've never been able to forget.  

--Barbara 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: bkt@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Barrie Trinkle)
Subject: Transsexualism (was: A Room of One's Own with a View to Kill)
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:05:27 GMT

rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:

>	and elsewhere that 'Male and female brains are different.'
>	The message I get from her is that
>		a) Men and women are different, including biologically
>		and mentally different, implying differences in outlook
>		(I'm reminded of a short essay by a transexual who had
>		been a reporter with a successful Mount Everest attempt
>		and the differences he-->she notes).

A throwaway reference to Jan (formerly James) Morris, whose
autobiography of the "he-->she" period of her life is titled
_Conundrum_.  Wonderful book.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
..nothing is so fatal to maidenly delicacy of speech as the run of 
a good library.
				Robertson Davies, _Tempest Tost_
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Date: 27 Sep 92 06:53:27 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <Bv6u72.574@news.cso.uiuc.edu> levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:

>There is a difference between a curmudgeon and a creep. And I
>think Ms. Paglia crossed the line with some of her statements on
>date rape. In particular, she was saying something to the effect that 
>rape is not a big tragedy that will ruin a woman's life. 
>
>May have been true, in many cases. But now there's the risk of AIDS...

You're misreading Paglia. She's not talking about STDs. She's talking
about the common myth that the experience of rape is so deeply terrible
that any woman who claims to have recovered from the experience must
be in denial.

This is no doubt true for some rape victims. But there's a certain type of
authoritarian rape theorist who insists that this must be true for *all*
rape victims. That's what Paglia, rightly or wrongly, is railing against.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact 
mnemonic@eff.org| of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, 
(617) 864-0665  | both are transformed."
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Carl Jung 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:38:20 GMT


jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey) writes:
 
> twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
 
>> . . . hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
 
>>> I love and adore Camille.  I disagree with most of what she says,
>>> including her excoriations of "feminists" (she *is* one, and should
>>> admit it)
 
>> *Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-HA-HA-HA!*
 
>       Hmm, for someone who blasts Paglia for "not being able to think
> her way out of a paper bag," I would have expected a more intellectually
> rigorous response.  Guess I was wrong. . .
 
Barbara Hlavin is, consistently, one of the more level headed and reasonable
posters in r.a.b.  But we often post articles where we state an opinion
without a rigorous argument.  Rather than attacking Barbara for ONLY
expressing her opinion, I'd have rather seen Jim C simply ASK her for
her reasons.  Barbara might well be willing to share them.
 
 
>> Fine.  Camille Paglia is a pompous, dick-waving fathead.
 
>> *Norman Mailer* is an intellectual vampire bitch.  (But at least
>> he can think his way out of a paper bag, and jesus can he write.)
 
 
>       I think I'll decline to respond to the name-calling portion of this
> article.  Why waste bandwidth for that?
 
But Barbara is not indulging in gratuitous name-calling -- she is responding
to Heather's claim that someone else's name-calling was sexist.  The irony
and humor of her response might have been lost on Jim C -- but some of us here
in NYC got a giggle out of it.
 
 
Mark
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Re: Arthurian Booklist
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:43:03 GMT

In <1992Sep30.130522.6268@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

>I notice, with some amusement, that Thomas Love Peacock's *THE
>MISFORTUNES OF ELPHIN* has been dropped from the Fiction list after a
>brief and misplaced appearance. Is this due to Peacock's somewhat
>irreverential tone?  Is it because Seithenyn is seen never sober?
>Were not Ceraint of Essyllwg, Gwrtheyrn Gwrthenau and Seithenyn
>ap Seithyn Saidi the Three Immortal Drunkards of the isle of Britain,
>or am I misreading the Mabinogion? But perhaps Ms Tuttle is right.
>Maybe this Welsh tale is too rare for the FAQ, and we should share
>Shelley's view that "His fine wit ... [is a] strain too learned for
>this shallow age."

Please...Ms. Tittle, not Tuttle.  Thank you.

Actually, I don't recall Peacock's _The Misfortunes of Elphin_ ever
being in the Arthurian Booklist.  The only Peacock I recall is one
that went into the Robin Hood Booklist (_Maid Marian_).  If you'd like
to supply a copyright date, publisher, etc, etc, I'd be more than
happy to put it in the Celtic section.

Puzzled,
--Cindy


--
Cindy Tittle Moore

Internet: tittle@ics.uci.edu       | BITNET: cltittle@uci.bitnet
UUCP:     ...!ucbvax!ucivax!tittle | Usnail: PO Box 4188, Irvine CA, 92716
From: hendricks@cdrom.enet.dec.com (Holly Hendricks)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: (Bibliographic References)  Re: Laura Ingalls Wilder
Date: 2 Oct 92 06:18:38 GMT
Reply-To: hendricks@cdrom.enet.dec.com
Organization: DEC


I said I'd post some references from the Encyclopedia
Brittanica reference reports on LIW.

First of all, EB claims that these reports are only available
to EB purchasers.  I think you can get 10 a year for 10 years?

There are two EB reports on LIW, 

	Members of LIW's family
	The Life of LIW

They are just a few pages each.

The first entry in Life of LIW is her biography from the
dictionary of American Biography, supplement 6, Charels Scribners
Sons, 1980, pp 696-697.  Interesting; nothing I haven't seen
elsewhere; contains a short bibliography.

The second entry in LIfe of LIW is the entry on her from Notable
American Women, the Modern Period.  Cambridge, MA:  Belknap Press
of Harvard U, 1980, pp 732-4.

5 additional articles are cited

Anderson, WT  "How the Little House Books Found a Publishing
Home", Language Arts, Apr 1981, pp 437-440.

Commire, A  Something About the Author.  v. 15.  Detroit, Gale Research
1979, pp 300-309.

Moore, RA  "LIW and Rose Wilder Lane:  The Chemistry of Collaboration", 
Children's Literature in Education, Autumn 1980, pp 101-109.

Warnock, AM  LIW:  The Westville Florida Years.  Mansfield, Missouri:
LIW home association, 1979.

Zochert, D.  Laura:  the Life of LIW.  Chicago:  Henry Regnery, 1976.
[a paperback]

===============================================
The second report, about her family, may have been extracted
from the book Laura.  It is 10 pages long.

The chronology in the report definitely was extracted from the book.

A few more articles.  

Anderson, DN.  "Little More about Laura:  Her Relatives in Wisconsin."
Elementary English, Mar 1964, pp 297-299, May 1964, pp 551-553.

Gould, OH.  Wilder, LI  in Dictionary of American Biography, 
supplement 6 1956-1960, ed. JA Garraty.  NY:  Charles Scribners
Sons 1980, p 696-697.

Kies, C.  "Laura and Mary and the Three Rs", Peabody Jnl of Education, 
Sep 1966, pp 110-113.

Mortensen, LH.  "Idea Inventory:  State School for the Blind at Vinton, 
Iowa", Elementary English, Feb 1964, pp 171-173.


Enjoy!

Holly

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
   Holly Hendricks
   Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: Margaret Martin Gardiner <gardiner@lib.uwo.ca>
Subject: Jeanette Winterson - new book
Organization: Relayed-by-Sendmail
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:50:43 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
To: rec.arts.books@julian.uwo.ca

	In the July issue of -Quill & Quire_ there is a notice that a
new Jeanette Winterson book is expected out in September 1992 entitled
_Written on the Body_ published by Knopf Canada/Random House.  Has
any Winterson fan seen this book yet? 

Margaret
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: citrin@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Citrin)
Subject: Mating
Reply-To: citrin@soglio.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Citrin)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:30:28 GMT

Just want to put in a good word for Norman Rush's MATING, which I'm halfway
through and enjoying immensely.  I'll try to post a review when I'm done.

Wayne

-----------
Wayne Citrin   citrin@soglio.colorado.edu   citrin@cs.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books