HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbeason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Joseph E. Beason)
Subject: Re: OS Card: Child Abuse stories?
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:07:27 GMT

I'm not as much a Card fan as i used to be, but I don't believe his use
of children is gratuitous.  Ender, Valentine, that Songbird kid were all
children who suffered much, and because of what they learned through
that suffering, became exceptional people capable of doing things no one
else could (the Wiggins' revolt and the adult Songbird's stewardship of
the galactic government and catalytic performance at the watchmacallit,
Songhouse?).  His stuff especially the earlier stuff, is clearly 
just this side of "juvenile" fiction, that genre where plucky, exceptional,
"different" child/adolescent who has the weight of the world on his/her
shoulders (talke to me Anne McCaffrtey with those harper kids and poor
widdle Jaxom, talk to me LeGuin's McMurrays and O'Keefes) taps into a
great source of power (hello, Mr. eddings, how's Belgarion doing?) or
otherwise overcomes great adversity. 
tThe evil are vanquished and the
good guys (often having been married off to the first person of the
opposite sex that is described as disliking them) win.  Kids are the stars,
and conflict means they're gonna get smacked around.  Also, I thing
these kids are meant to be Everyperson, on his/her growth to adulthood.
Mix in some nioce xtian views on suffering and how good it is for you,
and BANG...
From: logan@YOYO.CC.MONASH.EDU.AU (Richard Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF-LOVERS Digest V17 #622
Date: 24 Nov 92 00:26:05 GMT

I haven't heard of a sequel to ASH OCK, but if you do, tell me!  Liege
Killer was brilliant, IMHO and  the sequel was pretty good too.

Richard

AussieVamp 
AussieMan, Neophyte Vampire and DarkWolf
(Eric Clapton is God!!!)   [ and there is Bobby Fischer... ;-) ]
(Walter Payton, Mike Singletary and Neal Anderson form the Holy Trinity!)

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mfterman@flower.Princeton.EDU (Mutant for Hire)
Subject: Re: release date for _Javan's_Year_
Reply-To: mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu (Mutant for Hire)
Organization: Mutant for Hire, Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:36:32 GMT

Its already out in some places. I saw a copy at Philcon at one of the
dealer's tables, but didn't get it figuring I'll ask it for Xmas or
wait for the paperback version that comes out. The ending isn't too
much of a surprise once you've read the cover blurb and have taken a
look at Javan's life expectancy in the geneologies. It looks like there
might be another Deryni book set in this era, but not necessarily.


-- 
    Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Mean Ol' Top, Priest of Shub-Internet
    Disclaimer: Nobody else takes me seriously, why should you be the first?
mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu mfterman@pucc.bitnet terman@pupgga.princeton.edu
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rossing@cs.hope.edu (Eric Rossing)
Subject: Raymond Feist
Reply-To: rossing@cs.hope.edu
Organization: Hope College
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:13:49 GMT

A friend of mine has heard that there's a new book out by Raymond E. Feist and
wants to know if this is true, and if so, the title and whether it is part of
Riftwar series or the Daughter/Servant of the Empire books.

Anyone know anything?  Thanks!

---
Eric Rossing        | "What are you afraid of, a fate worse than death?"
rossing@cs.hope.edu | "No, just death!  Isn't that enough?!?"
Hope College        |            Col. Mustard and Mrs. Peacock,
Holland, MI   49423 |            Clue
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF for kids and teens?
Date: 24 Nov 1992 01:35:05 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1erkruINN6h6@gap.caltech.edu> ojvind@chagall.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander) writes:

>I grew up on, and revered, C.S. Lewis septology about Narnia.
>The first one that Lewis wrote was "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe."
>The first one, chronologically, is called, hm, in Swedish it was called
>"My Uncle, the Magician."  ....

In English, _The Magician's Nephew._
From: harrity@sumax.seattleu.edu (Zak)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Wheel of Time Series (spoilers)
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:41:41 GMT
Organization: Seattle University



















In article <1992Nov15.225747.296@ms.uky.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
>cpf@alchemy.TN.Cornell.EDU (Courtenay Footman) writes:
>
>>Spoilers!
>
>
>>In article <1992Nov11.210117.5326@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>>>mlebrun@bss2.umd.edu (Mike Lebrun):
>
>>Second -- Galad's father, Taringil Damodred, was Tigraine's first
>>husband.  Thus Galad and Rand are half-brothers.
>
>Wrong. Rand's father was an Aiel. Where else would he get his Aiel appearance
>and be able to go through the Aiel history. It was stated that He Who Comes
>With The Dawn will be born of a Maiden of the Spear, born of the old blood
>and raised by the ancient blood, or something like that. 
>But it is clearly stated Rand's father is an Aiel.

Isn't Galad a son of Tigraine?  If so, they *are* half brothers, right?

--
Daniel John Kelly-Harrity ---------| |--------- "Sooner spit in a 
Seattle University ----------------| |---------  Wolf's Eye,
Seattle, Washington ---------------| |---------  than cross an
USA 98122 -------------------------| |---------  Aes Sedai."

  "Welcome to All Things Scottish...If it's not Scottish, It's *CRAP*!"

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
Subject: Re: Amber questoin:  Could Oberon still be alive?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 04:17:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.071723.154977@zeus.calpoly.edu> jkusters@zeus.calpo
y.edu (Chrome Jester) writes:
>Okay, I've read the first set of Amber books a few times, and I have a
>question that I was hoping someone could shed some light on.  Could Ober
n
>still be alive?  Could he have made a deal with Dworkin and staged a pho
ey
>funeral?  Could Brand have actually lied about seeing Dad die?  (As if t
at
>would be any surprise?)  The question arises from some thoughts I've had
>towards a Amber Role-Playing campaign I'm working on...
>
>Any answers (posted or e-mail) will be very much appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>JOhn.
>-- 
>/-John A Kusters, jr.---------------------------------------------------
______
>| jkusters@ares.calpoly.edu   b0- f- w g- s-- r p++                     
\    /
>Silence keeps us all in darkness, We can't change things overnight;     
 \  /
>But we can shed a little light, Be Political not Polite! -Romanovsky & P
illips


It's extremely possible...it's just the sort of sneaky thing
he'd do.  You should probably subscribe to the Amber List Server,
and I'd give you the address except that I don't have it (and don't
know the address of the new administrator anyway...).

--
Chris Meadows // CHM173S@SMSVMA // CMEADOWS@NYX.CS.DU.EDU
   "If blood be the price of admiralty, then I've just bought me 
    a naval commission."  -- Corwin, SIGN OF THE UNICORN, Roger Zelazny

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: andy@research.canon.oz.au (Andy Newman)
Subject: Re: A Fire Upon the Deep
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 05:13:15 GMT

ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole) writes:
>
>	_A Fire Upon the Deep_ was an April 1992 release from TOR
>books. At this time it is only available in Hardcover.

I have a (large format, don't know what the industry lingo for this
size is) paper edition. Is the English printing from Millennium (Orion
Books).
-- 
Andy Newman (andy@research.canon.oz.au)
From: ojvind@chagall.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: origins of "ansible"
Date: 23 Nov 1992 21:58:53 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: chagall.cns.caltech.edu

(Elizabeth Wade) writes:

>>Does anyone know the origins of the word "ansible" (meaning
>>instantaneous communications device)?  I know Ursula Le Guin 
>>used it (in _Rocannon's World_ and _The Dispossessed_ among 
>>others), but did she invent it?  I also noticed it being used in 
>>Orson Scott Card's _Ender_ books.  Has anyone seen it elsewhere?
>

Perhaps just a future mangling of the word "answerable?"
Just like Einstein turns into Ansetain (or something) in LeGuin's
books.

-- Oj
From: cca91060@uk.ac.bham.ibm3090 (Jeff J. Beranek)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Iain M. Banks
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:24:29 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom

Has anyone read an Iain M. Banks book and enjoyed it.  If so mail me.
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:50:00 -0500 
From: Mark Alan Lang <Elistan+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Looking for Steve Perry/Matador fans!Hi! For those of you who are fans of Perry's Matador books, the

On 19-Nov-92 in Looking for Steve Perry/Mat..
user JW83HISW@MIAMIU.BITNET writes:
>     I haven't seen a lot of discussion about Perry's works here in
>rasfw, which surprises me.  If there are any other Matador fans out
>there, drop me a line and maybe we can get a newsgroup going to talk
>about his books.  If interested, just e-mail or post.  Thanks!

    Hello!  I'm a fan of Perry's Matador series.  However, while I think
of the first (_The Man Who Never Missed_) as one of the best books I've
ever read, the others just don't seem as special.  They are written
well, have nice plots, and are entertaining, but they really aren't all
that spectacular.  _The Man Who Never Missed_ just blew me away.  It was
unlike anything else I have read.  I wish I could remember specifics,
but it's been a while since I've read the books.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Mark Lang                       |  ml5t+@andrew.cmu.edu            |
|  elistan+@cmu.edu                |  elistan@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: leifmk@Lise.Unit.NO (Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y)
Subject: Re: The best sf story ever
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 20:50:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.022917.9068@highlite.uucp>, mike@highlite.uucp (Mike Wiik) writes:
 > weverett@jarthur.claremont.edu (William M. Everett) writes:
 > 
 > >In article <1992Nov17.044919.5345@leland.Stanford.EDU> mirage@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dean Joseph Sanvitale) writes:
 > >>The best sf story ever written, or at least one of the best, in my opinion
 > >>was PRESS ENTER which appeasr in Wolfheim's 1984 anthology.
 > 
 > >	If you want to read a story that is chilling, insightful, and well
 > >explained, read 'Blood Music' by Greg Bear. I read that story in a collection,
 > >put down the book, and wouldn't read another story from the collection for
 > >a couple of days.
 > 
 > Imho, read the novel version of *Blood Music*. It's one of my favorite
 > books. You'll dream your very bones are crystalizing overnight...
 > 
 > 	-Mike
 > 
 > -- 
 >    | o==== . : ... :  :  .     |Mail Me Neat Stuff->POB 3703 Arlington VA 22203
 >  --@-- . o o o ... O -O- o o : |No disclaimers needed: I actually pay for this.
 >    |           ... :  :        |-----------------------------------------------
 > mEssAGE fRoM sPAcE ARt stUdiOs |History:ReadItAndRollUncontrollablyWithLaughter

Oh, YES.  The short story is a (metaphorical) high-explosive charge in its own
right, but the full novel is a strategical nuke.  It is a killer.  I cannot
recommend it highly enough.  (Why haven't I been able to make any of my friends
read it yet?)

It still gives me gooseflesh every time I just think about it--and it's been
almost 5 years since I read it first.....

Buy it.  I don't care if you have to steal the money to afford it; get hold of a
copy, read it, and be amazed.  If you *have* read the short story version, you
will be familiar with the basic concept....oh, but the novel takes the
implications so much further.  I will not say any more about it than that, for
fear of spoiling.....but I suppose you'll have understood my point by now?

-Leif Kj|nn|y the .SIGless
Physics Department
Norwegian Institute of Technology
Trondheim, Norway.

leifmk@lise.unit.no
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jlredd@bach.udel.edu (Joshua Smith)
Subject: Mistress of the Empire. Paperback?
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:38:53 GMT


Does anyone know when the Mistress of the Empire (By Raymond Feist if
you hadn't already figured it out ;)) is comming out in paperback.

Any info would be appreciated.  Thanks.

-- 
==========================================================================
"Live now! Make now always the most precious time.  | Reply to:
 Now will never come again!" Picard, The Inner Light| jlredd@bach.udel.edu
========================================================================== 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.cyberpunk
From: mwasson@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Michael Wasson)
Subject: Re: Diamond-hard SF
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 22:02:42 GMT


>
>Great SF authors -- they _could_ be great, anyway -- who have little 
>competence in traditional character or plot now feel compelled to 
>gratuitously fill their books with it.  These conventions are being 
>used far more for destruction than construction.  It's time to
>dump "character", "plot", and the works of lit-police who pollute 
>our pages with them, into the bit bucket.  

I missed the start of this thread but by this description I'd
nominate J.G. Ballard's "Atrocity Exhibition" -- the book's
structure parallels the fragmentation of personality seen in the
information age ... like Gibson on drugs.  

Mike
______________________________________________________________________
Mike Wasson    ---   U.Hawai'i, Manoa   ---   Fat Messiah Games
mwasson@uhunx.uhcc.hawaii.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Can you say: Do-deca-he-dron?" -- Lisa Simpson
"Fool! Do you think I would fight you alone?!?" -- Skeletor
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Mote sequel when? (Niven/Pournelle)
Date: 17 Nov 92 02:30:22 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: coyoacan.sw.stratus.com

I wonder how many of these followups we'll see? 

> Is there a sequel to THE MOTE IN GOD'S EYE coming?  If so, when?

Yes. Feb 93. The Gripping Hand. Pocket, Hard-Cover.

-- 
         Tarl Neustaedter	tarl@sw.stratus.com
         Marlboro, Mass.	Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden)
Subject: Re: Brust, P.J.F., and Cat's Laughing
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:52:58 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

>Damon Knight is rumored to be sympathetic

Damon would probably bust your chops for that, Larry, but in a good-humored
sort of way.

You're correct to note the oddity of writers so drenched in modernist
attitude and technique decrying the alleged wrong turn inherent in modernism.
Not only is SISTER LIGHT, SISTER DARK no "straightforward story," but the
PJFers' other works make an odd ouevre for an ideology pinned up with a
rejection of Joyce.  THE SUN, THE MOON, AND THE STARS?  BONE DANCE?  TAM LIN?
These are books with the footprint of high modernism all over them.

Still, the intent is wholehearted and good; following the last round of
arguments about the subject, on GEnie and elsewhere, I've come to the
conclusion that their argument isn't with poor James Joyce, it's with
modern genre writers who attitudinize about how they're not Artists since
Artist means something effete and suspicious.  The PJFers have more
raw ambition than that, which makes them fun to read & work with; they
have years and days and hours left to kill, and the means to make them pay.


-- 
Patrick Nielsen Hayden
pnh@panix.com
From: n9146070@rowlf.cc.wwu.edu (Jacob C Kesinger)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Human computers
Date: 24 Nov 92 02:47:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: rowlf.n9146070.722573261
Organization: Western Washington University

I don't know if anyone else has suggested this or not, but what about
Ghost in the zelazny's Merlin of Amber books?

Jake Kesinger
n9146070@henson.cc.wwu.edu

"Hoochie koochie!  Twopence more and up goes the donkey!"
	-Windle Poons
	_Moving_Pictures_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.cyberpunk
From: gdr11@cl.cam.ac.uk (G.D. Rees)
Subject: Re: Diamond-hard SF
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:29:12 GMT

In article <BxtJ4w.FDs@techbook.com>, szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:
|>                                    Characters and plot are the
|> exemplar components of mundane fiction.  I do not care to see them 
|> at all, unless they are important to the technology or to the artistry 
|> of the story

This is all anathema to me, but you seem to have heard the "quality" rant often
enough not to want to hear it again from me.  Instead, a few questions:

If what you want to read is 'diamond-hard' sensawunder speculation and ideas,
then why do you bother to read fiction?  Surely the farther realms of the
scientific and pseudo-scientific press are exactly what you want, brim-full of
ideas without the slightest boring and wishy-washy character or plot in sight? 
No?  Then you must get something out of science _fiction_ that you don't get out
of mere scientific speculation.  If it's not characters and plot, then please
tell me what it is.

|>              -- and almost always these days the artistry of the story 
|> is defecated upon by the introduction of mundane characters or plot 
|> elements, polluting the potentially fertile vast tracts of the SF 
|> landscape with the toxic reek of an inferiority complex to mundane 
|> genres.

On my part, I find the description of scientific ideas without any supporting
story completely uninteresting.  If I want to read about scientific ideas I might
as well read about real ones that scientists are investigating today.  No, when I
read sf I'm interested in the effect of the science/technology on real people
(mundane or otherwise).  That's not to say that your kind of sf is bad, just that
I don't get any enjoyment out of it.

|> Which brings up some questions:
|> 
|> * Who out there like me reads SF for its original tech and
|>   prose, not for the blather of "character development" and 
|>   "plot" that can be found in mundance forms of fiction?
|> * Do there exist any fan groups, critics, authors etc. dedicated
|>   to promoting diamond-hard, idea-packed SF, or is there interest
|>   in same?
|> * What should be the minimum criteria for diamond-hard SF?
|>   I would say for starters it should have at least one
|>   interesting, original idea per page.  If the first nine
|>   pages don't hit me upside the head nine times, I toss
|>   the loser!

A E van Vogt used the device in a number of his books that there should be a new
idea, plot thread or startling event every nine hundred words.  Perhaps you would
like World of Null-A.

|> * What are the best works in this diamond-hard style?

Two exceptions to my claim that I don't get anything out of 'diamond-hard' sf,
and two books which exemplify everything that you want from this sub-sub-genre:

Last and First Men (Olaf Stapledon)
Star Maker (Olaf Stapledon)

-- 
Gareth Rees <gdr11@phx.cam.ac.uk>
From: Sandra_M_Lowe.Henr801B@XEROX.COM
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: SF for kids and teens?
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:01:16 GMT

I have searched my bibliographies and lists and have surprised myself that I
don`t have a list of SF for kids and teens, or any books in my lists designated
as juvenile.  So what I would like is a list of reccommendations for books for
the very young and for teens.  Please feel free to include some brief comments
about why you reccommend any given book.

Many thanks in advance
Sandy
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:14982 alt.cyberpunk:5876
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Diamond-hard SF
Date: 18 Nov 1992 02:40:00 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: mamba.cs.berkeley.edu

jessec@yang.earlham.edu (Jesse) takes 'em on:

>   As for cliched ideas: traditionally, hard SF has been full of them.  

The man has perception.  Real perception.  You got to admit it.

>You refer to several of them, including the enshrinement of an idea of 
>the inevitability of space colonization.

Ouch!  What a blow.  We're seeing vicious jabs, here.  It can't
be long for Szabo.

>Gibson, far from a computer engineer, or even a
>computer-literate layperson, understood the emerging reality of
>a postindustrial technosphere far better than the hard SF
>contingent of the late seventies or early eighties did-- maybe
>because he understood it as a series of changes in the patterns
>of everyday human life, and tried to grasp at it through
>techniques such as the hijacked language (i.e., "virus" and
>"sarariman") of *Neuromancer*, *Count Zero*, etc.

A monster non-sequitur to the jaw!  And it's all over, folks.
The referee is stepping in.  Gentlemen, we have a winner.

"That last blow was really what did it, Tom."

"Yeah, Joey, a tremendous hit.  We haven't seen anything like
it since the great days of Maroney.  The way he just rolled
those two points off, rat-tat-tat, same paragraph - it
was beautiful, Tom.  It was."

"I have to agree with that, Joey.  Why, I haven't seen the likes
of that since the day I was twelve and my older brother nailed
me with 'Disco is dead - punk lives!'  I saw stars for an hour.
The - the sheer myopia!"

"We've heard rumors, Tom, of illegal substance abuse in the
Jesse camp, and while we're certainly not ready to come to
a conclusion on this delicate question without a definitive
urinalysis report, I think that last blow does bear witness
that something mysterious is going on."

"Undoubtedly it does, Joey, and I think it would have to be
lead.  There's just nothing else out there that will produce
that kind of improvement in such a short time.  Why, only
a few weeks ago his play was spotty, full of two- and even
three-syllable words - and now - well, let's show the replay
on this one again.  A truly astounding move."

c
From: mab@buphy.bu.edu (Michael Burstein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Asimov biography
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:31:04 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

I read the following in the November issue of Locus, on p. 8:

"Scott E. Green signed with Greenwood Press to do _Isaac Asimov: An
Annotated Bibliography of Books in the Asimov Collection at Boston
University_."

"Stanley Asimov is editing Isaac Asimov's letters for publication. His
autobiography, _I, Asimov_, has been postponed. Ralph Vincinanza is now
agent for the Asimov estate."

Do we want this autobiography out soon or not? I suggest writing to
Doubleday to complain. I believe his editor was Jennifer Brehl.

-- 
Michael A. Burstein
Physics Department, Boston University         mab@buphy.bu.edu
590 Commonwealth Ave.                         (617) 353-9437 (o)
Boston, MA 02215                              (617) 735-9433 (h)