HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: RFV: BRUCKNER RE: THE BEST
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 23:18:08 GMT

jiu1@husc11.harvard.edu (Haibin Jiu) writes:
: In article <1992Dec27.173906.16090@athena.mit.edu> syliao@athena.mit.edu (Stan Yi-Huang Liao) writes:
: >The 8th is also a great one.  I love its finale!
: 
: The 8th is IMHO very bad because it is full of trite passages.
: 
: >Now there are at least three of us on this net who like Bruckner's
: >music.  So we are expecting 297 votes on the "other side" now.
: 
: Pardon me but personally I think he really sucks.

Thank you for your lucidly argued posting. I am, of course, on the pro
side. We now need something like 395 antis...

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington)
Subject: Re: Music by Paul Lansky on Bridge Records - an appreciative review.
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:21:32 GMT

masjpf@gdr.bath.ac.uk (J P Fitch) writes:

> I recently bought a CD player, and Lansky's record was the first one I
> ordered.  I heard parts of it at a Conference/Festival in Greece last
> summer, and as "Homebrew" is only available on CD I had to change my
> system. 
> 
> I like all the music on the CD, but "Now and Then" is especially moving.
> 
> I wholeheartedly endorse this recommendation.
> 
> ==John

His setting of a Spencer poem about a rose for voice synthesizer is quite 
beautiful, too.  (Sorry, I've forgotten the title).  I believe it's 
available on a compilation CD.  Mr. Lansky posts sometimes in comp.music!
 

Jeff Harrington      
IdEAL ORDER               
idealord@dorsai.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Bruckner (was: Re: Best finale)
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 00:40:48 GMT

mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis) writes:
: OK! OK! I can't restrain myself any longer!  I've been lurking here for a while
: reading all the Bruckner adulation, and I just have to add myself to the list 
: of those who couldn't care less about Bruckner.  Notice that I did not state 
: that I hate Bruckner.  That would imply that his music had some strong effect 
: on me, which it doesn't.  Bruckner moves me not at all.  Personally, I have 
: better things to do with my life than listen to an overblown, interminable 
: meander through the dregs of romanticism.  

Yeah, but what about Bruckner? :-)

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but why should you care
if others wish to debate the merits of a particular composer? have you
no 'kill' function in your newsreader?

: Give me one, just one, motet by 
: Desprez, and you are welcome to everything Bruckner ever poured onto
: paper.  

Perhaps you just don't like the Austro-German symphonic tradition?

: Has anyone else besides me noticed the sheer weight of Bruckner-verbiage that 
: clogs this newsgroup.  Comparing the percentage of Bruckner postings with the 
: percentage of time allotted to Bruckner performences, either on classical music
: radio stations or in live concerts, would tend to make me believe that either 
: most of the world's bruckner lovers subscribe to this newsgroup or else there 
: are a number of subscribers whose entire lives revolve around Bruckner's music 
: (Perhaps some therapy would help?).  Really!! There is so much Brucknerage 
: flying around the net that any novitiate to the world of classical music (and 
: there have been such postings here lately!) would think that old Anton must be 
: the best of the "three B's".  Can't we let it rest?

Percentage of time compared to what? After all even a Bruckner
devotee, such as myself - and no I don't need therapy thank you -
would admit that his output of masterpieces is relatively small in
number, so if the 'percentage of time allotted' were comparable to ,
say, Mozart, then we would have an interesting situation.

Incidentally, Bruckner was not one of the 3 B's in any case, although
symphonically he certainly should be. I would regard him as a greater
symphonist than Brahms. (Ducks and dons asbestos clothing).
--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: midnight@mdnite.enet.dec.com (Dr. Midnight)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: SURVEY: FAVORITE PIANO CONCERTO
Date: 23 Dec 92 15:42:01 GMT
Reply-To: midnight@mdnite.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation



From my limited listening experience:

Definitely Mozart's Piano Concert No. 21.



--
Dr. Midnight
alias Kim Rivers (midnight@mdnite.enet.dec.com)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The opinions expressed above should not be confused with those of my
employer, Digital Equipment Corporation.  Besides, we don't even look alike.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: downs@helios.nevada.edu (Lamont Downs)
Subject: Re: CD prices
Organization: UNLV
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 23:11:07 GMT


>Ye, it's the middleman, but you need the middleman, because you need 
>your record store: and the market is too thin to have competition 
>effectively inducing efficiency (remember, I am talking about classical).
>
I can testify to both these points, albeit on an anecdotal level:
 1) when I worked the classical section of a Tower Record store for several 
years classical LPs and tapes (shows how long ago this was) consistently 
accounted for about 5% of sales (obviously this was not one of the legendary 
Towers in the LA area).
 2) Our stores in the Las Vegas area are a horrible example of what lack of 
decent middlemen (middlepersons?) can be like; I have to plan about 2 trips 
per year to the West Hollywood and Westwood Village stores to get any decent 
variety in CDs, in spite of our having a Tower, some Wherehouses and the 
usual sprinkling of mall shops. And the less said about my experiences with 
mail order CD shopping, the better...

Lamont Downs
downs@helios.nevada.edu
From: gustavo@dent.uchicago.edu (Gustavo Comezana)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: EMI deletions (was Re: Ockeghem)
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:03:57 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, U. of Chicago

In article <1992Dec20.064010.22971@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <y1p2b+b@rpi.edu> mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec19.063407.25773@Princeton.EDU> Roger Lustig writes:
(stuff deleted)

>>...if the set of chansons finally appears here (and Steve Apter mentioned a
>>while ago that it has appeared in Japan), I might not feel so short-changed 
>>-- particularly if I find a recording of the Missa Mi Mi.
>
>There is one, I think.  PErhaps on Reflexe?  As for the chansons, why not
>learn them?  Find a few friends who can play this or that, or who can
>sing with you.  
>
>Roger


The Reflexe recording, sung by the Hilliard Ensemble, went the way of
the dodo bird about three years ago, at least in the US (alas!).
Another set which was deleted at the same time (Byrd Masses and
Motets, also Hilliard, 2 discs), resurfaced last year on mid-price, on
one disc, sans motets. So maybe not all is lost, and we shall some day
see the Mi-Mi reappear in the bins for about 30 seconds, after which
EMI, in its infinite wisdom, will withdraw it from circulation.  

By the way, the Byrd reissue is distributed in the USA by Allegro
Imports (which means that you'll pay roughly the equivalent of local
full-price EMI issues). This makes me wonder what criteria EMI uses to
decide what to issue in America, if any. There are so many fine discs
that never make it to these shores that one has to wonder if there is
such a big difference between the record-buying public in Europe and
that in the US. Take the Byrd disc, for example: the Hilliard Ensemble
has a considerable following in this country and the Byrd Masses are
far from esoteric repertoire; are the EMI accountants afraid the
company is going to lose money? Nobody would expect it to be a
blockbuster, but it is quite reasonable to think it would sell well.
Is it possible that certain truly awful crossover material by the
King's Singers (available in the US, of course) could possibly sell
better?  (Disclaimer: this is not meant as an insult to the King's
Singers, who are wonderful when they are not in blatantly commercial
mode).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Messiah "Amen" and tympani
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 12:37:00 GMT

In the Colin Davis recording of Handel's "Messiah"
the final "amen" is "spelled out" by the typamni.
In Robert Shaw's recording, the tympani play only
a roll on the last syllable. Which way is "right"?
From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: RFV: BRUCKNER RE: THE BEST
Summary: if it claques like a duck ...
Date: 2 Jan 93 20:03:41 GMT
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC

In article <1993Jan1.231808.9985@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:

>Thank you for your lucidly argued posting. I am, of course, on the pro
>side. We now need something like 395 antis...

The "antis" are mostly too bored with Bruckner to bother intruding
into the smug jumping up and down of the Brucknerites.  I really
have no idea what the proportion of pro-vs-con might be, and I don't
much care.  FWIW, I enjoy the scherzo of the 9th symphony, for its
rather monomaniacal intensity (a bit like Mahler but without devel-
opment).  Encountering this again recently caused me to explore some
of the other symphonies -- and now I have another bunch of CDs I'll
probably never listen to again.  Someday I may understand why the
Brucknerites *like* this stuff so much; for now, I haven't got a
clue.
-- 
Michael L. Siemon	"We honour founders of these starving cities
mls@panix.com		 Whose honour is the image of our sorrow ...
			 They built by rivers and at night the water
			 Running past the windows comforted their sorrow."
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: beethoven's symphonies
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: rec
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 19:54:07 GMT

smw@ira7.ecn.purdue.edu (S. M. WU) writes:
: In article <1992Dec18.4216.25741@dosgate> "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com> writes:
: >   >    Subject: Beethoven's Symphonies
: >
: >If you'll indulge me, Sams, just next door to HMV, is selling off the
: >EMI Furtwaengler discs at C$6.99 each. If you can find all 5, it's a
: >bargain. Mono sound, but echt Beethoven in execution.
: >
: 
: How about the Furtwaengler's recording of Beethoven's symphonies on
: 'Virtuoso' label?  I bought a set of 5 discs including all but the
: 2nd symphony for only US$18 (in mono, too).  Are they considerably
: inferior to his EMI recording, individually or as a whole?  Is there
: any EMI disc(s) worth owning in addition to the Virtuoso set?

The Virtuoso set are all taken from live performances, whereas the EMI
are studio recordings, with the exceptions of 2, 8 & 9. I can't recall
- and don't have the time right now - to comment on the individual
performances in the Virtuoso set, and I think some of the overtures -
if I am thinking of the right set - are not by Furtwaengler at all.

The EMI coupling of 5 & 7 is essential as is his studio (1950) Eroica.
--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:19274 rec.audio:17234
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.audio
Subject: Re: Recorded using B&W speakers
Date: 23 Dec 92 13:57:08 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Followup-To: rec.audio
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) wrote:
> The advantage of using B&W speakers (or another fine brand) for monitoring
> is that you bring out all the flaws in your recording right then and there.
> Recordings monitored and judged through transducers of less-than-ideal 
> quality often have flaws that are audible through high-end audiophile grade
> systems.  Many feel that these problems can be avoided by monitoring on
> such a system in the first place.

Somewhere I read that recording companies in the 60s took the exactly
opposite approach when mixing-down pop tracks: the last stage in the chain
was the sort of speaker you'd find in a cheap trannie on the beach.  Since
that was where their product was aimed, that was what they balanced it for.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: RFV: Bruckner Re: The BEST finale!
From: sowhat@gphs.vuw.ac.nz (Christian Zick)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 04:12:08 GMT
Organization: Institute of Geophysics, Victoria University of Wellington, NZ

In article <1992Dec26.191324.7124@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>, dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
> sowhat@gphs.vuw.ac.nz (Christian Zick) writes:
> [....]
> : I also had a record with organ music from Bruckner, which I sold later on. 
> : Although I am almost addicted to organ music, I did not find anything
> : beyond sweet-humming noise in his organ compositions.
> 
> Well it is generally acknowledged that Bruckner's organ music is
> second-rate, ...

I do like a lot of second-rate organ music indeed, and I will never try to
persuade anybody of its *qualities*. But Bruckner's is 4th rate.

> 
> : I must admit that I had the feeling of having cleaned up my record collection
> : when it contained no more Bruckner.
> 
> The loss is entirely yours.....

  This is your perception ....

Christian Zick
sowhat@gphs.vuw.ac.nz
From: SLC@HARVARDA.HARVARD.EDU (Steven Cantor)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: favorite organ work
Date: 28 Dec 1992 08:19:23 -0600
Organization: Harvard University
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

my pick:  Messiaen's Livre du Saint Sacrement

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Cantor
SLC@HARVARDA.HARVARD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: Re: Greatest living conductors
Organization: Visual
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 16:15:53 GMT

Within each group, not listed in any particular order:

TOP-NOTCH (I'd buy a ticket to hear them conduct just about anything,
      and whatever they conduct, it's assuredly NOT run-of-the-mill):

Kleiber (always worth waiting for)
Giulini (seems to communicate the depth and wisdom of hard-won experience) 
Rattle (occasionally suckered into recording unsuitable repertoire by
        the powers-that-be at EMI, but an extraordinary talent) 
Tennstedt (the most rarified air)
Solti (whatever you say, he's one of the best alive)
Abbado (the Bill Clinton of conducting -- happily at home in a lot
        of diverse music, often with outstanding results)
Sinopli (I'm a recent convert to him)
Gardiner (in early music only) 

SECOND TIER:
Blomstedt (limits himself to certain repertoire)
Jarvi (spreads himself too thin)
Colin Davis (rather non-individual)
Dohnanyi (too "hard-nosed" to my ears in too much repertoire)
Levine (excellent and adaptable to many styles and genre of music)

THIRD TIER:
Slatkin (but climbing -- quite an Elgarian, and excellent in American music)
Ashkenazy (overrated by a fawning British press; homogenized sound)
Previn (ditto, but more truly talented than Ashkenazy)
Andrew Davis (gets more attention than he deserves)
Barenboim (although some of his later stuff is encouraging)

VERY PROMISING:
Schwarz (excellent in American music and unusual repertoire)
Salonen (a few hits, a few misses)

NOT:
Tilson Thomas (potential forever unrealized)
Ozawa (ditto)
Mehta (ditto)
Maazel (potential? what potential?  when he does something marvelous,
        like his Mahler Fourth, I dismiss it as a lucky guess)
Boulez (a stinker; as a friend of mine says, "We hate him"; his
        conducting is so unfeeling I think he needs counseling)

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: cd prices
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: rec
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 01:33:59 GMT

bob.warren@canrem.com ("bob warren") writes:
: To: alexander.inglis@canrem.com
: 
: No, not a club. They've been around for quite a while. I haven't made
: use of the service ... I really like in-person shopping. As I live in
: 
:     So do I, but I live in Brampton and work in North York. I don't
: get downtown that often, so other than over to Square One I'm not
: able to frequent a large number of music stores. There _is_ an HMV
: outlet at the Bramalea Shopping Centre, but fairly expensive.
: 
: downtown Toronto, this is an easy "everyday sort of thing to do. The
: catalogue prices are actually not bad at all, especially for anyone
: subjected to non-Yonge & Dundas prices! Seems to me DGGs, to take a
: common example, were well under $20 ($17.99? $18.99?). Provided one buys
: 
:     As I recall, there's a music shoppe in the Eaton Centre which
:  is Classical only, but only saw it once.

There is (was?) a shop in Hazelton Lanes called the Classical Record
Shop. The guy who runs it does a weekly review programme on CJRT
(Sunday afternoons) - this is all dating back to 1989 when I left TO...

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: gr@st-andrews.ac.uk (Gavin Ramsay)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Eugene Onegin
Date: 22 Dec 92 10:05:49 GMT
Organization: St. Andrews University, Scotland.

In article <CB.92Dec21125432@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>
>I've been watching Boris Godunov recently and I'm wondering if the other
>big Russian-history opera, Eugene Onegin, would grab me, even though my
>taste for Tchaikovsky is an occasional thing.  First, is it a good
>opera?  Is there a good videotape version of it?  I need a fast reply,
>as this may have something to do with Christmas.
>
>Chris Brewster
>cb@cray.com

Try Mussorgsky's other great opera 'Khovanschina'. Abbados vienna performance
is superb!
gav
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung)
Subject: Historical Fidelio recordings
Originator: schung@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:38:54 GMT


While at Tower the other day, after finding that Karajan's EMI recording is
apparently out of print, I came across an import-label recording by Erich
Kleiber, with Birgit Nilsson in the title role.  Anyone know anything about
this set (it was from 1955, I think, and was coupled with Beethoven's 5th)?

Also, I saw a CD rerelease of Furtwaengler's 1950 Salzburg bootleg with
Flagstad.  Are the sonics as truly horrible as on the LPs?  How about
Furtwaengler's recording with Matha Moedl (soon to be released by EMI), how
is this?

And finally, are there any Lehmann recordings out there (of Fidelio I
mean)?

Thanks for any help.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: RFV: Bruckner Re: The BEST finale!
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:16:02 GMT

pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek) writes:
: In article <j90abv4@Unify.Com> ceb@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan) writes:
: >In article <JWA.92Dec22230634@vipunen.hut.fi> jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt) writes:
: >>In article <1992Dec22.154744.3519@walter.bellcore.com> broken@venison.bae.bellcore.com (Tony Brokenborough) writes:
: 
: [Bruckner-hating slavering deleted]
: 
: >>>Even his contempories and the critics of his day hated his music.
: >
: 
: Anti-Bruckner: Eduard Hanslick
: Pro-Bruckner:  Hugo Wolf

"For today we will simply be content to report the enormous success of
the performance - a success which the modest and energetic composer so
justly deserves."

Eduard Hanslick on the premiere of Bruckner's 2nd symphony. This was,
of course, before Hanslick realised that Bruckner idolised Wagner.
--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Eugene Onegin
Organization: pubs
Date: 21 Dec 92 12:54:35 CST


I've been watching Boris Godunov recently and I'm wondering if the other
big Russian-history opera, Eugene Onegin, would grab me, even though my
taste for Tchaikovsky is an occasional thing.  First, is it a good
opera?  Is there a good videotape version of it?  I need a fast reply,
as this may have something to do with Christmas.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Berlioz' disheveled bombast [was: Furtwaengler on Toscanini]
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:33:13 GMT

apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
: In article <1992Dec31.182339.24353@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:
: 
: >				 I love Berlioz for his disheveled 
: >bombast
: 
: 
: 
: Me too.  So this seems as good a time as any to recommend the recording
: of Symphonie Funebre et Triomphale by Musique des Gardiens de la Paix
: on Calliope.  Even if you have Davis or Dutoit, try to hear this.

I haven't heard this, but have read good things about it. I still
swear by the off-air recording I made of a John Pritchard performance
at the first night of the proms in c1985. Brilliant.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical