HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: masonp@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Peter Mason)
Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new.
Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:06:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.144806.6930@cgrg.ohio-state.edu> leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Leslie Bishko) writes:
>I've resisted reading news because it eats up hours of valuable time,
>however...
>
>I've been a vegetarian for one year and have lately been somewhat
>distressed by meat cravings!  My vegetarianism evolved through saving
>money by living on tofu, eventually becoming revolted when in the
>meat department at the grocery store.  One day I ate meat, felt sick,
>and decided to make the switch official.  I'm 95% non-dairy, mainly
>for health reasons, and I've been known to eat fish, but I don't buy
>it.  So, I'm a little fuzzy when it comes to fitting into a category.
>

Categories are not all that important while you are establishing yourself.
Mary Howard has offered some fine suggestions if you are having "meat cravings".
In the same vein, there is an excellent tofu burger recipe in the "New Recipes
from Moosewood" vegetarian cookbook.  I made it recently and found it tasted
much like my mum's meatloaf.  In fact, the biggest problem I had with it was
that it looked and tasted so much like meat that I had a inherent repulsion
to it at first.  But it makes a fine "hamburger" if you want a substitute.

peace,


Peter
-- 
Peter Mason
masonp@nukie.physics.mcmaster.ca
Hamilton, Ontario (ack! pfffthpt!), Canada
-displaced Nova Scotian
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:8259 talk.bizarre:27692 misc.test:10157 news.groups:17223
From: asymes@nl.oracle.com (Andy Symes)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,talk.bizarre,misc.test,news.groups
Subject: Re: an idea
Date: 27 Aug 92 15:15:55 GMT
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: Oracle Europe

In article <5999@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil>, rpwhite@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (rpwhite) writes:
|> Valerie Mates writes:
|> >Anybody interested in considering splitting rec.food.veg into two
|> >groups, one for discussion about vegetarianism and the other for
|> >recipes and cooking tips?
|>  
|> I suggest we adopt the time-tested solution of K*nt Paul Dolan.
|> 
|> How about a CFD for rec.food.veg.advocacy.
|> 
|> rp -- I see a great need.

How about a rec.food.cannibalism as well? Cooking tips would also be welcome,
and some ideas for butchery would not go amiss.
--
Andy Symes, Speaking only For Myself
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: vive valeque
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 12:54:02 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1992Sep4.022304.17813@walter.cray.com> tinamou@snoid.cray.com (Doug Nicholson) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.195732.19669@newshub.sdsu.edu> stark@saturn.sdsu.edu (Brian D. Stark) writes:
>
>>If you or Michael want to add input to the cause of vegetarianism,
>>your free to express your views, as is anyone else, but don't expect
>>my sympathy if you both decide that your feelings have been hurt
>>too bad to continue to add to discussions.  Why do I keep getting
>>this image of a child threatening to take his ball home if the other
>>kids don't play right?
>
>Some people are able to disagree without being inflammatory and some
>people are not.  Why can't you just tell Traub and Altar that they
>are free to express their views without calling them childish?  It
>is just this type of pejorative commentary that they got tired of
>putting up with.  Why stick around when you are going to get insulted?

Doug, I disagree. I thought Brian's assessment of recent events was
accurate. It's very oppressing to have one or two individuals
dominate a newsgroup with their misinformation about vitamins and
nutrition. If these guys were registered dietitians, professors, or
had some other recognized expertise, the scenario would be different.
But this was not the case. What we had was two college students citing
data from various books without the expertise to discriminate between
truth and half truth. When they were finally challenged by someone
who is truly knowledgeable, they both ran like cowards, rather than
admit they were misinformed.

Brian was right on target. "If you can't walk the walk, then don't
talk the talk." 

By the way, anyone who believes Ted's story about Mike Traub being
a kind, gentle, generous vegetarian ought to read the inflammatory
e-mail I receive from Mike on a near daily basis. There is so much
of it, I wrote Mike Traub this morning and said anything more that
I receive from him will be zapped without being read.
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Wanted - Indian Vegetarian Cookbook
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:56:32 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

john@spss.com (John Przyborowski) wrote:
> susan@waikato.ac.nz writes:
>> I have been looking for an Indian Vegetarian Cookbook...
> I just purchased "Lord KRSNA's Cuisine: The Art of Indian Vegetarian
> Cooking" by ? (totally blanked on her name).  Excellent, excellent book.
> Massive in scope, very thorough, and, from what I am told, doesn't concen-
> trate on Mogul (northern India) cuisine as do most.  There's a healthy
> smattering of Gujarati, Bengali, Tamil, Goanese etc.  It's expensive,
> $30, but its harcover and huge.  My treat to myself for this month.

It's in paperback in the UK, but still huge.  I know of two others of a
more practical size and scope for most people:

   Type of Material: Book
     LC Call Number: TX837 .D17 1985
             Author: Dalal, Tarla.
              Title: Indian vegetarian cookbook / by Tarla Dalal.
   Publication Info: New York, NY : St. Martin's Press, 1985.
  Phys. Description: p. cm.
              Notes: Cataloging based on CIP information.
           Subjects: Vegetarian cookery.
           Subjects: Cookery, Indic.
     LC Card Number:    85001991
               ISBN: 0-312-41403-X : $13.95

This is also available in a UK edition.  It's my favourite.  Lots of
unusual paratha recipes - as I got a tava (Indian griddle) recently, I've
been having fun with these.  You could use a Western griddle nearly as
well, or a heavy frying pan with a slight loss of convenience.  Parathas
are quick and easy.

Another one is Jack Santa Maria's "Indian Vegetarian Cooking", a classic
which my girlfriend has worn out two copies of.  I can't find it in the
Library of Congress catalogue I got the above entry from.  It's published
by Hutchinson, I think; at any rate, it'll be listed in "Books in Print" or
"British Books in Print" and there's no excuse for any bookshop on earth
not being able to get it (even the morons in Whitcoull's, if they're still
going in Hamilton) - also it's been in print for so long (nearly 20 years)
that turmeric-stained second-hand copies turn up regularly.  His new "Greek
Vegetarian Cooking" looks terrific but I haven't used it yet; he's also got
an "Italian Vegetarian Cooking" which I haven't seen.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Subject: Re: an idea
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 17:48:34 GMT

In article <altar.715106787@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

>Rich Young replies:
>>[...much verbosity deleted...]
>          ^^^^^^^^^
>Note that the facts and arguments that support my make my case
>you have here conveniently ignored and dismissed as mere "verbosity".

	To continue this in r.f.v. is precisely that about which people
	have been complaining for weeks.  I am answering in e-mail...which,
	based on "ted's" last posting, will end up here anyway...an incredibly
	rude, but totally predictable, behavior.  I have asked "ted" to go
	to e-mail twice and he inexplicably continues to refuse to do it.
	_I_ will no longer waste public bandwidth on what has clearly become
	a personal vendetta against me by two people.  They may insult me
	in private as much as they like without bothering the rest of you.

	Lest anyone take this wrongly, this is not a retreat from the group,
	but rather, an attempt to do what so many have asked and remove a
	flame session from this forum.  If it reappears, be assured that
	it will not have been of MY doing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions are not necessarily shared by my employer...and you can lead a
zealot to knowledge, but you can't make one THINK!!!

"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral
busybodies...those who torment us 'for our own good' will torment us without
end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences." - C. S. Lewis

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Version 2 of who is who on rec.food.veg (still not serious)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 06:19:24 GMT

 
I must admit to having difficulty in remembering 3 things:
names, dates and the third I always forget!   :-)  :-)
 
This listing is really great.  Now I can see at a glance who
is who.  I found it difficult in the past keeping track of
some of the less frequent posters and you have here
diligently even included them.
 
The embedded humor of your listing was as welcomed relief
from some of the deadly serious exchanges that have here
occurred.
 
Thanks for your positive contribution and your genuine
efforts to help reduce the flames.
 
                                   ted
From: ded@kps.UUCP (David Edwards /DP)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarian: I don't like vegetables.
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:25:22 GMT
Organization: Kuwait Petroleum, Stockholm, Sweden

In article <BtEJBE.3CA@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> sploke@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (;-}) writes:
>
>When I became a vegetarian, I always felt bad to call myself a vegetarian.
>Why? Simple, I don't like vegetables and usually don't eat them, unless I 
>have nothing else to eat. The most frequent asked question by my roomate 
>was:" Why do you call yourself a vegetarian? You don't even eat vegetables"
>
>Does anyone have the same problem before?? You called yourself vegetarian
>and everybody else expects you to like vegetables!! But by defination,
>vegetarian simply means one does not eat meat. I eat salad only when I went
>to restaurant and found nothing else that I want to eat. I eat vegetable 
>( at home ) about once or twice a month on average. 

Restaurant salad!! Blech!

I too don't like to refer to myself as a vegetarian either, but for 
other reasons. If there is a stigma attached to any pattern of 
eating, I would like it to belong to the meat eaters. Therefore I 
call other people meat-eaters, as opposed to calling us "vegetarians", 
who to me are normal. I ask for "non-meat" dishes at restaurants, not 
vegetarian dishes. 

As for vegetables, I love em, or hate them depending on how they are
prepared. Take broccoli for example Boiled Broccoli: Yeech. Now take
my broccoli antipasto:

steam (or microwave) it lightly, add a touch of tomato paste, lots of 
oregono, basil (preferably fresh), a little salt, lemon juice or 
vinegar and olive oil. Curry, or garam masla instead of oregono is 
great too. Simple, easy, and delicious. 

The slumpen masses can't possibly know of the joys of non-meat gourmet
delicacies because they don't exist outside a handful of off-beat 
restaurants. If most people get their idea of vegetables from the kind
of rubbish served along side the average steak, naturally they would 
dread a puritanical vegetarian fate.

A few months ago my brother and sister in-law visted us. My wife 
prepared the "normal" meat fare and I prepared alternative non-meat 
dishes. Naturally they tasted some and said they really liked it. 
But the clincher came last week when in conversation with her other
sister to whom the pair reported it was the best food they ever ate! 
Boy was I surprised and pleased. ("Hey, that's what I eat every day!")

David Edwards
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Just insert nozzle into potato and gun is loaded.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: drew@cs.anu.edu.au (Drew Corrigan)
Subject: Buck Wheat Recipes Sought
Organization: Computer Science Department, ANU, Australia
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 06:29:08 GMT

We have several kilos of buck wheat kernels at home (originally purchased
with the idea of 'green manuring' our backyard, but now not needed for
this purpose.) Does anyone have any recipes we could try?

Thanks,

Drew.
From: michael@uk.ac.oxford.robots (& Stevens)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Nutrasweet info
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:48:50 GMT
Organization: Dept. Engineering Science, Oxford University, UK
In-reply-to: dyer@spdcc.com's message of 25 Aug 92 13:54:20 GMT

I've always thought anyone who volenteered to drink/eat Nutrasweet or
anything diet was nuts anyway. Personally I would reckon on a few
tablespoons of sugar being much better for me then Aspatame/Sacarine
(sp?).  Also the stuff taste evil, whatever the advertisers might say.
Personally I drink soft drinks for refreshment and pleasure, they
can't perswuade me that they will make me slim too!

Whats more worrying is when manufactures put this muck into totaly
ordinary food that doesn't even claim to be "diet". Whats going on, is
it cheaper then sugar, or are they just going for that extra artifical
taste?

As a matter of interest how much "diet soda" do you think you need to
drink to get symptoms of depression? Maybe we could have a usenet
clinical trial. Bit hard to make it double blind however, you might
just taste the difference!

Whats much more fun is if we all drank 2-3 litres of sugary cola,
and compared notes on how we felt. Not being a great coffee drinker
the caffine really does me in.

Looks like I've started to ramble off the subject,
Michael Stevens, Robotics Research Group,Dept of Engineering Science,Oxford,UK
INTERNET: michael@robots.oxford.ac.uk

--
Michael Stevens, Robotics Research Group,Dept of Engineering Science,Oxford,UK
INTERNET: michael@robots.oxford.ac.uk
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: an idea
Date: 28 Aug 92 00:39:50 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:

>Every six months we talk about having two different groups, one for
>politics one for recipes.

Then maybe this already speaks about how unviable an idea this
really is.  

Informal votes have in the past been repeatedly cast and the
the outcome has been the same;  NO, people want this
conference to remain intact.


>Every time a number of people agree that it would be a good thing and
>some seem to disagree. WHAT WE NEED IS someone who understands the
>formal procedures for calling for input and votes!!! It is discussed
>and dropped every time!


Well, Michael Traub was ONE such person.  He tells me that
to create a new newsgroup there must be more than 100 yes votes
over and above the number of no votes, AND that the YES votes must
be at least 2/3 of all valid votes cast.  Do you really think
this is going to happen?  Probably not, so let's move on to
another idea that is more workable.  Traub has proffered one
solution and I followed suit with a similar suggestion. 
.
I do think that readers old and new are entitled to know
where people are coming from with respect to this specialized
conference purporting to provide information and discussion
relevant to vegetarianism.  A weekly posting of a listing
of the more frequent contributors, some voluntary statement
about their background and vegetarian practice would not
only be useful to know so that some vegetarians could avoid
getting into bootless quibbles with inveterate meat-eaters,
but I think it would be of interest in itself.  This way
we can get to know a little about the people here posting,
and this might help to humanize the conference and take away
some of the rudeness.

I think that electronic conferences like this makes for an  
inherent semi-anonymity so that people forget that real human beings
with committments and feelings are being addressed.  Also, when people 
become faceless signatures to each other, a certain rudeness and
even animus is too easily possible, as we see occur on
the highways when people become encapsulated strangers in cars.
Why not try to give this conference a more personalized face?

                                         ted
.
From: cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com (C.J. Silverio)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Question
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:15:42 GMT
Reply-To: cj@sgi.com (C J Silverio)
Organization: SGI TechPubs

---
trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
|Due to a resent blood test, I need to back off of 
|foods high in cholesteral and fat, and eat high fiber foods.
|I'd like some ideas.

|I thought about eating vegetarian.  BUT, a lot of dishes
|I know that are vegetarian have cheese....and cheese is high in fat.

|So, what are some common dishes that would steer away from
|fat?  Also, if I go vegetarian, how important is this amino acid thing
|and protein thing everyone warns against out here in cow land?

I'm in the process of slowing moving to a diet that's better
balanced than the one I've been eating:  more whole foods,
grains, & vegetables, less meat & fat.  So I've been doing some
reading on this topic, too.  I'll share some of my experiences:

Get yourself a good book on nutrition.  There's a thread
in sci.med.nutrition on this topic right now.  Check it out.
(I've been scanning this group (r.f.veg) for a couple of days,
and it seems to typify all that is horrid about Usenet. s.m.n
seems like it might be a better source of reliable info.)

I've found the "New Laurel's Kitchen" book to be extremely
informative about nutrition & ingredients, but less practical as
a cookbook I can use in my life.  "Fast Vegetarian Feasts" by..
urk!  I can't remember.. contains recipe suggestions that I can
fit into my busy life.  (It also has a chapter on fish, which I
think is great.)

Vegetarian cookbooks aren't necessarily sensible about dietary
fat.  (Cheese, cheese, cheese.)  Whole foods cookbooks tend to
be better.  Learn to modify recipes.  You don't have to sacrifice
good taste, though.  Sensible food doesn't have to be boring
food.

I'm not at all convinced that eliminating all meat from our
diets is necessary.  It seems to me that our ancestors were
omnivores who ate meat when they could get it-- which was not
very often.  Drastically reducing the amount of meat you eat
from the American average is *definitely* a good idea, though.

Here are some tips that have helped me with my changes:

- Make the changes in stages.  Don't just give up meat overnight;
  instead try reducing your red meat intake, then reducing
  other meat, and so on.  You might end up vegan in a year, but
  you won't go vegan overnight.
- Phase in changes slowly.  Give yourself time to acquire new habits. 
- Be prepared to learn a new style of cooking, with new ingredients.
  Spend some time in the kitchen!

Good luck.

---
cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com      C J Silverio/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720
"Music for Airports should give you the feeling that, 'Well, it 
doesn't really matter all that much anyway.  What's a few humans 
less?'" --Brian Eno
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Version 2 of who is who on rec.food.veg (still not serious)
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 07:45:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.140603.2141@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.065542.10111@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>>Steve Dyer	Just colourless arguments, sometimes quoting from wrong sources
>
>So tell me Abhay, what "wrong sources" are these?

I forgot.

>
>>Ted Altar	another extremely valuable contributor to r.f.v.; well
>>		informed and well read. Inside information : His postings
>>                are appreciated by many. Good typing speed too. About to
>>                go into hiding, from reliable sources.
>
>That would be no surprise.  He posted information on vitamins B12 and D
>and I corrected those parts of it which were misleading, or reflected a
>misunderstanding of data, or which were outright falsehoods.  That's
>roughly the time that someone might disappear for a while.  It's easier
>to do that than say "I was wrong."

OK. You were wrong. Thanks.

>
>Frankly, based on what I've read from him so far, I would never take
>anything he said which had the nature of a scientific assertion at face
>value.

OK. 

>
>-- 
>Steve Dyer
>dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer

With regards,



-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new.
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 20:27:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.115657.6444@iscsvax.uni.edu> howard@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

[...]

>If you have a meat craving once in a while, you can use Textured
>Vegetable Protein instead. There's a product called Heartline Meatless
>Meats, which is dried chunks of TVP that can then be reconstituted 
>and used in dishes such as stir-fries, etc. It is made from soybeans, 
>but resembles meat, especially in texture. Also, the company ADM 
>(Archer-Daniel Mitchells), makes a product called Harvest Burgers, 
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

	I think that should be "Archer-Daniels-Midland."


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: suzanne@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Suzanne McCaffrey)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian foods with all necessary amino acids?
Organization: Rochdale College West
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 20:11:30 GMT

there's no way you can get all the amino acids thru one packet
without having to go to one of the chemical companies and asking
them to packet it for you. and then, they'll probably screw it up
due to incompetence, malfeasance, ignorance or over-zealousness.

i've been a vegetarian for all my life, and thru accident and/or
experimentation have probably ingested some 5?lbs of meat
product, so i speak from a position of one contaminated - caveat
emptor.

the necessary amino acids, not gotten thru veg & fruit can be
gotten thru cheeses/milk products (caveat vegans).

also grains, molds, and nuts. the latter can be an important
source, nuts that is, and you see it by inclusion in veggie foods
with additions of poppy seeds to breads, also sesame seeds to
bread and fallafels. the english vegetarians were noted for their
inclusion of nuts - filberts, almonds, walnuts und so weiter - to
their vegetarian foods.

persons of hindu extraction have also been known to be
vegetarians for generations, using not only nuts, but beans to
add the necessary amino acids.

there's no total package, especially if you want to go the
natural route, and the seasons and their unpredictabilty often
determine what sits in front of you.

nuts are good, in that they can last longer than gourds or
turnips, and a small addition to every meal will give you
everything you're lacking. (of feel yr lacking).

add nuts to salads. add poppy seeds to bread. 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg