HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: grady@fraser.sfu.ca (A. Brian Grady)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: baking on clay tiles discovery
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:06:27 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

livings@unislc.uucp (Ross Livingston) writes:

>With all this talk about baking tiles, I can't help but be curious.  Do
>they really not interfere with other oven uses?  When you bake cookies,
>do you just slap the cookie sheet on the tiles?  What about a heavy
>caserole dish or a dutch oven?  Also, aren't there cracks between the
>tiles that would allow cornmeal, if you went this route, to fall through?
>I guess I just don't have a good visual image of how these things work.

>Thanks.
>-- 
>Ross Livingston
>livings@unislc.slc.unisys.com
 
I just put the tiles on an oven rack when I bake bread; they stay in
a cupboard the rest of the time.  You can just slap a cookie sheet
on the tiles if you like.  There are cracks between the tiles, and
cornmeal does get into the oven, but a vacuum or a brush would 
deal with this.  Or putting a sheet under the tiles would catch
crumbs.
According to the Laurels Kitchen Bread book,
if you wanted to leave the tiles in the oven for other purposes
you would have to heat the oven a little more to begin with, but
you save power over the whole baking period because the clay
stores heat and so the oven has to go through its heating cycles
fewer times.  This should result in a more even heat over time too.
Brian
-- 
Brian Grady 
grady@sfu.ca -- Psychology Dept, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, BC.
From: M23231@mwvm.mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Wood's book, etc.
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:54:44 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102

In article <1992Aug17.175357.13756@acd4.acd.com>
cat@iedv7.acd.com ( Chris Teegarden (ICCT)) writes:
 
>
>Well, I got my copy of "Sourdoughs from Antiquity" by Dr. Wood on Friday.
>As I said in an earlier post, his company was selling "seconds" for $15.
>They were supposed to have minor defects that made them unsuitable for
>regular sale.
>
**************
Would someone please e-mail me the address for ordering this book?
 
Thanks,
From: uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu (Christina Callihan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: baking on clay tiles discovery
Keywords: clay, baking
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:12:29 GMT

In <grady.713497104@sfu.ca> grady@fraser.sfu.ca (A. Brian Grady) writes:

>More on baking on clay tiles: Details were requested.

[snip]  

>and turned it upside down onto the tiles.  Either way works.  I wish I
>had one of those wooden pizza peels.  Then just bake the bread as usual.
>I havn't had it stick to the tiles at all.

Pizza peels are wonderously useful things.  I make pizza fairly often and
you just can't beat the great crispy-chewy texture you get with tiles/a
baking stone and a peel.  I can't wait to try making pizza with a 
sourdough crust!  (drool  :)  


____________________________________________________________________________
If You Know What |     Christina M. Callihan     |  Doing STRANGE THINGS
 You're Doing,   |  AKA C-chan, Bwee, Chrystal-  |  in the name of Art,
   It's Not      |   Elf & Who Knows What Else   |  and STRANGER THINGS
   Research!     |       (I sure don't)          |    in the name of
 => => => => =>  |     uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu      |       CHOCOLATE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
(The opinions in this post are not endorsed by the University of California
at Santa Barbara....THANK GOODNESS!!!!!!!!!  ;^}  )
Lines: 21
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 07:20:54 MDT
From: earlyd@ee.byu.edu (David Early)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Subject: Re: baking on clay tiles discovery


In article <1992Aug13.221820.9410@unislc.uucp>, livings@unislc.uucp (Ross Livingston) writes:
> With all this talk about baking tiles, I can't help but be curious.  Do
> they really not interfere with other oven uses?  When you bake cookies,
> do you just slap the cookie sheet on the tiles?  What about a heavy
> caserole dish or a dutch oven?  Also, aren't there cracks between the
> tiles that would allow cornmeal, if you went this route, to fall through?
> I guess I just don't have a good visual image of how these things work.
> 
> Thanks.
> -- 
> Ross Livingston
> livings@unislc.slc.unisys.com


Try putting the tiles in a large cookie sheet with a lip all the way round.
This works well and I just remove the sheet and tiles when I am done (all the
cornmeal just sits in the bottom of the pan:)

Dave Early
earlyd@wombat.ee.byu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: livings@unislc.uucp (Ross Livingston)
Subject: Re: baking on clay tiles discovery
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:18:20 GMT

With all this talk about baking tiles, I can't help but be curious.  Do
they really not interfere with other oven uses?  When you bake cookies,
do you just slap the cookie sheet on the tiles?  What about a heavy
caserole dish or a dutch oven?  Also, aren't there cracks between the
tiles that would allow cornmeal, if you went this route, to fall through?
I guess I just don't have a good visual image of how these things work.

Thanks.
-- 
Ross Livingston
livings@unislc.slc.unisys.com
From: zola@hardy.u.washington.edu (Queen of the Netherlands)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: baking tiles, &c...
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:59:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug18.195955.11823
Reply-To: zola@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


More on quarry tiles for baking: I set my tiles directly on the oven rack,
and have been making mostly pizza since I purchased them.  It works FINE to
do it this way.  If you use cornmeal under bread or pizza you can dust it 
out when the oven is cool, or you can just put a cookie sheet on the next rack
down to catch any cornmeal or excess bits and pieces.  I have had no problem
doing this at all, and I like the results.  If a bread can stand alone on a cookie sheet I would think that there is no reason  that it would not bake as well
directly on the bricks.  The trick with pizza is getting it onto the bricks.
(tiles)  I use an upside-down cookie sheet (or round baking sheet) with cornmeal
or flour to get from point a to b.  The dough slides right off the cookie sheet
and onto the tiles.  Once it has cooked, the pizza is easily removed from
the oven with a large spatula (or really just anything that will allow you to
scoot the pizza) onto a cutting board that is held even with the tiles.  It is
crisp enough to just push.  I have found it easiest to get the dough onto the
tiles first, then add toppings after about 3-5 minutes in the oven. I save the
cheese for the last thing, about 3 minutes before it is done.  I priced round
pizza bricks at $29 this weekend.  And the Williams-Sonoma catalogue says
about the same for thinner tiles that fit into a cookie sheet.   I bought    
enough tile for $5.46.  These are unglazed, and as has been said before, it
is the glaze that is the problem with leads, not the clay.  Clay that is used 
now is lead-free.

If anyone wants any more gory detail on this mail me.

I got my starter in the mail yesterday! Yipee!  I am so excited, my other
starter got tossed, so I am ready for more.  If it is complete failure or
raging success I will post some note about it.

-Rebecca 
zola@u.washington.edu
  
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: rye@medici.trl.OZ.AU (Rye Senjen)
Subject: getting starter in Australia ? 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:01:24 GMT

I have been reading this news group for a while,
and am pretty keen to try, but where to get
a starter from ? I went to the firebrand bakery here
in melbourne which bakes only sourdough bread,the best
in fact, hoping to get some of their starter, but understandably 
they wouldn't part with any of it. Is there anybody in Australia
taht would shre their starter with me ?????

Also does anybody have a copy of woods book for sale ??

Many tahnks. RYE

r.senjen@trl.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: cat@iedv7.acd.com ( Chris Teegarden (ICCT))
Subject: Culture Questions
Summary: how do starter ingredients affect culture
Keywords: starter,culture
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:41:23 GMT

I recently purchased a book by Ada Lou Roberts titled "Sourdough Breads and
Coffee Cakes" (Dover, $4.95 ISBN 0-486-24529-2) that seems pretty good.  She
gives recipes for several starters that don't even use commercial yeast!

What seems especially interesting to me is that the recipes have some initial
ingredients that are not used when doing subsequent proofs.  Some examples are
peach tree leaves and hops.  The ingredients are steeped in water at the boiling
point.  I assume that this will kill anything that might be on them that could
contaminate a starter.

Is it possible that the non-renewed ingredients could selectively encourage
certain strains of yeast and lactobacilli over others?  I am also curious about
the effect of the salt in the starter recipes.  I thought that it tended to
inhibit culture growth.

If anyone has experimented with these starter recipes, I would appreciate
hearing about the results.  Do the cultures appear different?  If so, how
do they differ?  The author indicates that they do but gives no details.

-- Chris (cat@acd4.acd.com)

P.S.  I have gotten an active culture going based on just all-purpose flour
      and water from whatever critters are floating around my home.  I will
      post the results when I find time to cook up something.  For those of
      you wondering, I am smack dab in the middle of the midwest.  It IS
      possible to start your own cultures there!
From: wvenable@algona.stats.adelaide.edu.au (Bill Venables)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: getting starter in Australia ?
Date: 15 Aug 92 04:17:43 GMT
	<1992Aug13.131152.1782@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu>
Organization: Department of Statistics, University of Adelaide
In-reply-to: dancer@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu's message of 13 Aug 92 18:11:51 GMT

>>>>> "Martha" == dancer  <dancer@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> writes:

Martha> Well, I am not in Australia, but I am in the process of drying a
Martha> lot of starter. I could send some to you if you are interested,
Martha> just send me email and I'll send you my address.

Martha> Though, I wonder what customs will think of a white powder?

That's a generous offer, but I am pretty certain that it would be seriously
in breach of Australian customs regulations, which are very severe on plant
and animal materials, especially foodstuffs.  Whether one agrees with this
paranoia or not, I think it best to be on the safe side.  (My daughter has
a friend has just returned from Holland where she got married.  Customs
insisted on removing and destrying the roses from her bridal bouquet!)

Personally I find the wild yeasts here in Australia, particularly in
tropical Australia, to be quite good.
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Bill Venables, Dept. of Statistics, | Email: venables@stats.adelaide.edu.au
Univ. of Adelaide, South Australia. | Tel: +61 8 228 5412  Fax: ...232 5670
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Russian (Scandanavian?) Black B
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:50:39 CDT

In article 10429@u.washington.edu, zola@hardy.u.washington.edu (Queen of the Netherlands) writes:
|
| mgraham@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Maggie Graham) writes:
|>
|>	When I lived in Finland, I was able to buy very black bread that
|>	was wonderful. I don't think it was pumpernickel alone, tho that 
|>	may have been a constituent. It tasted a little sweet (molasses?)
|>	and I think it may have had some rye in it also. I also remember
|>	being told that the recipe was orignally Russian, tho I can't 
|>	be positive that is correct. 
|>	Iknow this description is vague but Are there any Scandinavian or  
|>	Russian people out there who know what I am talking about and 
|>	could post or email a recipe to me?
|>
|>	Thanks in advance,
|>	maggie.
|>
|
|Maggie - there is a black bread recipe in the FAQ files.
|It looks like what you want, but I have not tried it, maybe David Adams
|has.
|
|They can be had by anonymous FTP from ftp.ils.nwu.edu
|the files are in the pub/sourdough directory.
|(user: anonymous  pw: your id)
|
|the files are:
|FAQ.basic_bread
|FAQ.brine.cure
|FAQ.culture.bank
|FAQ.recipes
|FAQ.sauerkraut
|FAQ.sourdough
|FAQ.starter.doctor
|black.bread
|
|(and various mail archives).
|
|
|-Rebecca (zola@u.washington.edu)

I have heard from different sources that the Russians put coffie in their 
black bread, which is somewhat different than the recipe in black.bread.
That recipe comes from Sourdoughs International.  It was the suggested
recipe for the Russian culture.

---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.
From: pamhall@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Pamela Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Something besides wheat and rye...
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:19:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Aug20.211958.28484
Distribution: na
Organization: Western Washington University


There's a book entitled "Wheat-free, milk-free, egg-free cooking" by
Rita Greer.  However, I certainly don't think all the recipes are geared
to bread-making!  Anyway, it's in paperback for $3.95 with an ISBN of:
0-7225-0832-8 and the publisher is Thorsons Publisher
Pamela
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: cmurray@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au (Christopher John Murray)
Subject: Wondering about milk...
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 04:51:22 GMT

  Hi all,

     A few weeks ago I chanced upon a recipe for SF sourdough bread in a book,
not having ever heard of it before - I though it sounded suitably weird enough
to give it a go.  -I made the bread. It tasted real good but it was *very*
dense (not necessarialy a bad thing).  I made two loaves, which together 
weighed eight pounds!

     What I want to know is :  The Starter I used contained flour, milk
sugar and nothing else.  I left it for four days near a wood heater and 
when I opened the jar it smelt *perfect*.  But is this really SF sourdough?
I live in Australia and I'm sure books can get away with anything here..

     And as to the milk question.. I was told that you cannot use pasteurised
milk for your starter, as it won't contain the bacteria you are supposed to
be culturing.  I used normal shop milk (homogenised and pasteurised) and it
seemed to work okay.

     Anyway, comments and things greatly appreciated,

                                                     Ky



     
        Email to:   
   cmurray@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au 

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz (tmp))
Subject: Re: Wondering about milk...
Reply-To: Gary Fritz <fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com>
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:31:43 GMT

dadams@cray.com (David Adams) writes:
: How then does the process of drying remove the antibiotic?  

Dunno.  Maybe the heat of drying destroys the AB?  (Assuming there actually
*is* AB in non-dried milk, etc.!)

: Besides, all the comercial dairy people make and sell yogurt.  ...
: Furthermore almost all cheeses, sour-cream, and buttermilk, as well as yogurt
: are cultured by lactobacilli.  

True, but (again assuming the AB-in-milk theory is true) I could easily
believe that Dannon et al follow different culturing processes than we do.
In particular I'd guess they innoculate the milk with massive amounts of
culture, thereby overwhelming the AB.  If it don't work, they add more.
Not quite the "gentle" approach us purists use.  :-)

: On the other hand, lactobacilli itself is responsible for producing certain
: toxins, which it is able to tolerate, so perhaps it just tolerates most
: of the anti-biotics in the same fashion?

I doubt that.  The AB's are specifically designed to kill bugs like the
lactobacilli.  Maybe they aren't specifically targeted at lactobacilli,
and maybe they aren't as effective on lactobacilli as on their intended
victims, but I suspect they are still quite effective on lactobacilli.

Gary
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dsr@philabs.philips.com (Deborah S. Rech)
Subject: Re: getting starter in Australia ?
Originator: dsr@bubba
Reply-To: dsr@philabs.philips.com (Deborah S. Rech)
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:56:45 GMT


About 10 days ago I airmailed from New York a small box containing 4 of my 
starters to a netter outside of Melbourne.  I prominently labelled each bag 
as sourdough bread starter.  I hope to hear soon whether the package made it 
through intact.

Debby
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dkl@xcluud.sccsi.com (David Karl Leikam)
Subject: Re: has anyone ever tried feeding a starter with corn flour?
Organization: Greater Montrose UFO Appreciation Society & Data Haven
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:23:31 GMT

In article <p93mnnj@lynx.unm.edu> swells@triton.unm.edu (Earth-daughter) writes:
>maybe this is a stupid question, but i *did* read all the FAQ files
>first, so shoot me.  :-P
>
   (Bang!)

>i was thinking of attempting to make my own starter up here in the
>Jemez Mtns (where many Anasazi used to live), and it occurred to
>me that i might try it with fine blue corn flour.
>

  (jealous sigh)

>the air is clean, and the altitude is 7500 feet, and it gets
>fairly warm during the daytime.
>
>soo...any ideas, advice, experienced people who think i should
>forget it, encouragement?  i expect it's worth a try, anyway.
>

  Well....what were you gonna do with it, exactly? I mean, sourdough
cornbread?  Heck, try it, why not? For tortillas you don't use any
kind of leaven, of course. What's left?
 
  Well, and anent a previous thread, what's left is pizza -- southwestern
style. For this, I use about 1/3rd cornmeal in place of flour, and mix
normally. It takes a bit longer to rise (this is with baker's yeast) but
otherwise acts normally. (Toppings have to include green chilies, 
ideally Numex or Sandia, more normally Anaheims (sigh), and NO jalapenos.
I may have to live in Texas, but I don't have to eat like it.))
 
  This works well enough that it's definitely worth trying with sourdough.
It is virtually certain to work SOMEWHAT, and will give you a good idea as
to whether the cornmeal/sourdough mix is a flavor worth pursuing further.
BTW, you might keep notes of your personal experiences and think about
adding a section on high-altitude directions to the FAQ file.
From: thomase@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Stan England)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Something besides wheat and rye...
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:30:20 GMT
Reply-To: thomase@tekig5.pen.tek.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

Diane asked if anyone knew of recipes for bread made from
something other than wheat.
I recall seeing an article in The Oregonian, (Portland paper) about
a woman who has written a book about cooking without wheat. Seems
she also has an allergy to wheat and that it is quite common.
She became so frustrated at the difficulty in finding recipes, that
she compiled her own cookbook of various wheat-free recipes she
had found.
I don't recall the authors name, but the title was something like
"Wheat Free"
Perhaps another newsreader might recall who this was and post a
more thourough answer, if not do check out your bookstore, as this was
a fairly recent publication.

--
       Stan England        |    Tektronix Customer Support Center
thomase@tekig5.pen.tek.com | BBS (503) 627-5658 Voice (503) 627-2400
   Searching: England,Doss,Lang,Moody,Davies,Butler in AL,TN & GA                                  
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: steveve@ecs.comm.mot.com (Steve Veeneman)
Subject: Re: Wondering about milk...
Organization: fixed_div_network_support
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:01:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.045122.15468@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> cmurray@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au (Christopher John Murray) writes:
>
>     And as to the milk question.. I was told that you cannot use pasteurised
>milk for your starter, as it won't contain the bacteria you are supposed to
>be culturing.  I used normal shop milk (homogenised and pasteurised) and it
>seemed to work okay.
>

I have been making yogurt constantly for 17 years, and I really suspect that
normal store-bought milk contains antibiotics that make cultures difficult to
grow.  I have great luck with nothing more than powdered milk and any kind of
water that has the chlorine removed, distilled or otherwise.

Somone else posted recently that they use powdered milk for yogurt and I think
the reason might be that the antibiotics evaporate in the milk-powdering
process.  Does anyone know more about this?  Thanks in advance...

-- 
steveve@comm.mot.com   Steve Veeneman   (708) 576-9081 Motorola LMPS
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: 100% Rye Bread (was Ergot)
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:48:19 GMT

hank@westford.ccur.com (Hank Cohen) asks about 100% rye bread.

>Finally on a more positive note.  My brother was told in cooking
>school, The San Francisco Culinary Academy, that 100% Rye bread was
>only possible using sourdough levening.  I have also read in Julia
>Child's kitchen that it is the action of the yeast and not kneding,
>as I had previously thought, that develops the gluten in flour. This
>leads to the following questions:
>1. Does anybody have a recipie for  sourdough 100% rye bread or pumpernickel?

Yes.  It's from _The Art of Russian Cuisine_ by Anne Volokh.  I've
made a few changes to it because she uses the 'fake starter' method.
That is, let a mixture of rye, water, and yeast sit out a few
days, and then add more yeast later.  I've modified it to use
a real sourdough culture.  (Note:  this is similiar to the
Borodinskii bread recipe I posted a while ago.  This one uses
all rye though)

Moscow-Style Dark Rye Bread
Starter:
1 tbsp active starter
2 1/2 cups warm water
2 cups dark rye flour

Mix ingredients and let proof at a LOW temperature for about 12 hours
(this low temperature is VERY important if you're using the russian
culture as it can often smell like vomit when it's fed whole grains)

Bread:
All the starter
3 1/4 cup dark rye flour
1 tbsp shortening (oil is easier)
6 1/2 tbsp dark malt syrup
1/4 tsp corn syrup
1 tsp salt
1/2 tsp caraway (optional)

Ok.  This takes work.  You knead, knead, knead,.....  It also acts
like the monster that wants to eat the world's supply of rye flour.
Knead at least 30 minutes if you're kneading vigorously.  More
if not.  Shape into a slightly flattened ball.

Be prepared.  This won't rise a whole lot.

Place a pan of water in the bottom of an oven heated to 425.  Bake 
bread for 5 min then reduce heat to 375 and bake another 1 1/4 hours.
Age bread 6 hours before eating.


Julie
#include "std_disclaimer.h"
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough