HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: neil@pnet01.cts.com (Neil Coito)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PCs are the godsend. The will triumph over the world. : -)
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:16:04 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA


>><insert Eddie Hascell(sp?) voice with finger pointing> I hope you all
learned
>>your lesson <end of Eddie Hascell(sp?) voice and with finger pointing> :-)
 
>>John Anderson
 
>Ok, John. Here's a repost. It's the least I can do after that time you
>happened to be driving by, saw our burning housed, rushed in through the
>flames, and carried each of my family members to safety... besides the
>time you jumped the guy that was holding us hostage, then fought with him,
>wrestled the gun away, knocked him out, tied him up, and called the police.
 
Not to mention the volunteer work he does for the orphanage here, and the
work at the resthome, besides the work at the cancer institute.
 

UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!neil
ARPA: crash!pnet01!neil@nosc.mil
INET: neil@pnet01.cts.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:15:13 GMT

>> 	I think you underestimate PC games.  There are quite a few out there
>>    that are very nice.  Over the last few months I bought quite a few great
>>    PC games:Ultima Underworld, Star Trek the 25th Anniversary, Links 386 Pro,
>>    Red Baron, to name some.  The future of PC games looks even nicer, with
>>    great games on the horizon, like Strike Commander.
>>
>
>OK, looks like you mentioned 4 or 5 "must have" games for the PC.  Can anyone
>name one for the Amiga?

	Although I don't own an Amiga anymore, I did see Populus II the other
   day.  I'd say thats a must have Amiga game.           

						G.Greene

>
>
>--
>Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
>Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
>1124 Fremont Ave.
>Los Altos, CA 94024
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: ! Pournelle [sic] says that there is a new amiga !
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:59:15 GMT

hmm... didn't think of the A600 as a new machine... have been hearing
about it for so long (year now)...

Thom

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu ("sam hulick")
Subject: Re: ! Pournelle [sic] says that there is a new amiga !
Organization: Vallen Software
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:07:20 GMT

>In article <0eQNm4600XNI1NmFA0@cs.cmu.edu> Michael.Witbrock@cs.cmu.edu writes:
>>the effect that: His next column would be about the state of amigas, and
>>that he had recieved a *new Amiga* just the previous week. 

Could've been talking about the A3000+ and A4000, which are due out next year
some time.  These new machines have the AA chipset, along with 16-bit sound
(finally!).  That's about all I know about the machines.

-- 
Sam Hulick  ///  E-mail: shulick@indiana.edu (including NeXT mail)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "...And the earth becomes my throne."  --Metallica
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Commodore and the Osborne Syndrome
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:36:34 GMT

In <1992Jul29.205754.26400@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>Memory protection can and generally DOES slow it down a HELL of a lot
>more than 5%.  Try 58%.  That was using my friend's MP-added CD-RTOS
>system.  That gives it MP and resource tracking.  And it was next
>to unusable.  Sure, it had it, but it was next to unusable.  58,
>Jerry.  That's enough to go from productive to unproductive in 13.8
>seconds.

As CD-RTOS is based in OS-9 it should do resource tracking (i.e. for
memory allocation,open files and signals) all the time.

The overhead for resource tracking is neglible if done right. The only
cost exists when a task closes resources itself or dies.

Cost of memory protection depends on the CPU/MMU used. On the 68020/MMU
you will see about 15-20% degradation because the MMU adds a waitstate
and the MMU might to reload the TLB cache occasionally. On the 68030
it is just the TLB, I expect a slowdown of no more than 3% if the memory
system is reasonably fast.

>And, might I add, he's a DAMN good programmer.  So I don't think it
>was the code.

Maybe it was the 68070 chip ? Dunno what memory protection with its MMU
does cost.

>I don't care if they CAN.  If they DO, I want it turned OFF.

I wouldn't be so sure..

>I'll name 2 68000 ones that I've seen with MP.  The first was OS/9,
>the second CD-RTOS.  And guess what...  BOTH slow down to an
>incredible degree when they ran with MP up.

Must be some bad implementation then.. see above.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Distribution: comp
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 09:02:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.221345.14003@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> foax@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:

[Game consoles vs computers as a game platform...]
>
>Aren't you assuming that all games are arcade-oriented?  If that were
>true then consoles might well dominate.  But any game requiring a lot
>of computing power that isn't being used to move objects around on
>screen would be better done on a computer.  I can't see complex flight
>simulators, where the 3-d calculations dominate the computing time, or
>vastly complex simulations like the latest Ultimas being done on
>consoles.  And if you need to save any information, you're out of luck
>on a console.  If you built a console with these capabilities then
>most people would think it was either too expensive or trying to be a
>cheap computer and would probably buy a real one.

The consoles are coming out with save capabilities. Ultima() is already out for
them. In the fall Sierra will begin porting many of their adventure games
to the CD based game consoles. 
 
As for flight simulators, Falcon3.0 is coming out on CD. The big, big 
difference is that very inexpensive CD-like addons will be available later
this years from both Sega and SNES. In the latter's case you will then have 
CD-I compatibility, something which is far more important than a fast cpu
in an ISA PC.
 
Don't forget the built in matrix tranformations in the SNES. It would be nice
if perspective tranformations (3-D, 4x4 matrix) were there, but they aren't 
on PC's either.

In short, any game available for PC's/ Amiga's/etc...will soon be there on
the SNES ( possibly with CD-I addon). RPG's are most certainly available.

[ ]

Philip McDunnough
nextwave!seacove!philip@epas.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Reply-To: bill@msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:12:21 GMT

fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
: In article <62536@cup.portal.com>, TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:
: > Point of reference, a DELL 386DX-33 with 4MB ram, 80M HD, supervga and
: > monitor, DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1, 24 hour on-site service for 1 year
: > is $1550.
: >
: 	You know, I'm curious.  How do these people sell so cheap?
: 	Who's doing advanced development on the PC Clone architecture?
: 	Who's bringing advanced integration of the various subsystems
: 	to the PC?  Somebody has to pay for this.  The PC architecture
: 	is eventually going to fragment and die if no one carries the 
: 	advanced developement "ball", IMHO.  Although it seems to be 
: 	going OK at the present.  BTW, I use a PC and a Sun 4 at work
: 	and I use an Amiga at home.  

The reason why systems are so cheap is because almost every system in a
PC is in competition:

Memory
Video boards
Hard Disks
BIOS
Floppy disks drives
Tape drives
Sound boards
Power Supplies (I kid you not)
Keyboards

And some of these (like the video board) can be broken down further.
Each component is made cheaper and better to compete with other
companies.  IBM Clone manufacturers buy at high volume to cut per unit
component price.

Recently there was an article in PC Magazine on why Compaq lost some of
its price edge.  That was because there were are lot of small VLSI
companies which had little overhead who were selling to video board
manufacturers, or motherboard manufacturers.  In turn video card makers
or motherboard makers had little overhead in certain areas so thier price
was very low.  Remember, the price of an IC is mostly research and
associated overhead, not manufacturing costs.

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@msi.com            |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
From: foax@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:43:20 EDT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Cornell University

In article <mykes.0ag0@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG>,
mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes: 
> In article <1992Jul27.152601.21696@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>
>> This is like saying, "Credit cards are overrated.  You can always carry
>> more cash.
>>
> 
> No, but you CAN carry more CACHE. :)

I still can't believe how one posting of a silly little column could propagate
like this.  Ahh, the wonders of USENET... :)
-- 

--Colin Howell			email to howell@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu
--Cornell Astronomy Dept.	(hopefully switching to computer science)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY)
Subject: Re: AmigaDroids will *never* change
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:58:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.233803.10501@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY) writes:
>>ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>>>	Isn't the 16 meg limit an ISA problem and not OS2?  I think on EISA 
>>>    and Micro Channel machines there is no such limit.
>>
>>I don't think its a problem with ISA due to the fact that my lab computer
>>486 is a ISA which has 32 megs installed and has room for more simms using
>>4 meg simms upto 64 megs on the motherboard total (NO cards needed!!!)  So
>>you AMIGA people will need extra cards ($$$) to even get as much memory
>>as this 486 did(Yes its still a clone and the price was what the average
>>going for 486DX mb).
>
>32 megs?!  How many people do you think put 32+ megs in their personal
>computers?  I would expect a personal computer to need some add-ons for
>1.2 gigs of RAM, 96-bit graphics, and what not.
>
>-- Gerald

Thank you for understanding(not) my response to another post, infact I included
the previous post along with yours so that you can see what I responded to.
It had nothing to do with people wanting more than 16 Megs of RAM, but infact
had to do with ISA limit.  And the fact that I stated a remark on how
RAM can be upgraded on the pc to 64 megs with out additional cards was only
a remark back to a previous AMIGA poster bragging about how much RAM can be
put into a AMIGA with cards etc.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:48:40 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

hawk@pnet01.cts.com (John Anderson) writes:
>                                                                            
>I think the point here is that Jerry was saying that it's all relative to   
>the base machine you're comparing. You can always go lower and lower        
>to find an even less memory wanting machine. You can take that AtariDOS     
>90K machine and say that it won't fit on a 2K machine, but with Timex       
>SinclairDOS you can.                                                        
>                                                                            

Yep, that was the point!

>
>However, none of these operating systems rival the power of Kickstart or    
>OS/2. Kickstart compares very favorably to OS/2 in power.
>

This is where I disagree.
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:01:11 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>
>>A-ha.  And how do they decide how much actual RAM to use?  This is a losing
>>argument, Mike.  OS features belong in the OS.
>
>How does the OS decide how much actual RAM to use for process ? It keeps
>statistics of memory usage and regularly fails to decide right since
>the statistics won't predict the future.
>

The OS can use an LRU algorithm to figure out which pages to throw out.
Even if your program keeps accessing *all* of the image data, in most cases
it won't be using even close to all of the code, so the OS will be able
to swap out some code pages.  How would application-based VM help in this
scenario? Suppose your image is 1024x768x24 = 2304KB.  How do you know how
much of it to keep in memory?  64KB?  256KB?  1MB?  Maybe applications should
handle multitasking, too?  I can see it now:  MS-DOS for the Amiga.

>
>Michael van Elst
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: catapcnl@NeXTWork.Rose-Hulman.Edu. (Chris Lawrence)
Subject: Observations on the Amiga
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:40:57 GMT


I was wandering around SIGGRAPH in Chicago on Wednesday.  There was some pretty  
neat stuff there.  I got to see Mandala (they were running the drum demo - it  
was pretty cool, though I can't imagine what anyone would *do* with the  
program); I also saw Programs Plus & Video (the people who sell RCS' Fusion  
Forty and Activa's Real3D).  They were exhibiting three A2000s (actually, one  
was a 2500) with Fusion Forties installed, running Real3D 2.0, ADPro 2.0, and  
this really awesome graphics card (16 million colors, they said, just finished  
it the Saturday before the show).  Another company was exhibiting a cool 3-D  
program called "Playmation" for Windows, and said that the Amiga version (I  
think its one of the Hash products) had been for sale for over a year.  This  
might have convinced me that the Amiga was a professional graphics workstation.

Commodore's abscence did not help in convincing me.  Nor was NewTek to be seen.   
Blue Ribbon was there, but they were running SuperJAM! on a Silicon Graphics  
workstation (I think it was an Indigo).

About a week ago, I thought about writing a mega-flame to CBM about how  
programs on Mac, OS/2, NeXT, etc, etc. have a consistent user interface, while  
ProWrite's 3D look looks a lot different from ADPro's or ProPage's or  
PageStream's or Workbench's.  Then I picked up a copy of the "User Interface  
Style Guide."  Now I want to flame the developers instead.  Fo a change, CBM  
tries to get something straightened out (namely, the differences between how my  
applications operate), and the developers just flat-out ignore it.  ProWrite's  
non-standard gadgets are a trip; I also love ADPro's cycle gadgets that don't  
say that they're cycle gadgets, etc.  It seems to me that the PD programmers  
have to take the lead, as usual, in obeying the style guide.  I, for one, will.

Here are some kudos to people who do follow the style guide:
  SoftLogik (PageStream)
  SAS Inst. (SASCOptions)
  Waterloo Maple (Maple V)
  Nico Francois (ReqTools)  { note how I've run out of companies }
  Me (In the future)

Later dudes...
--
Chris Lawrence
Pretender to the Throne; Destroyer of the Faith
-----------------------------------------------
"In a democracy, the majority often gets what it wants.  Occasionally, it also
 gets what it deserves."
 - ??? (Can someone tell me?)

PS Please don't EMail to the Reply-To address - I won't be there by the time    
you mail...  If you are hacked off at me, please USMail to:

Chris Lawrence
Crooked Tree Software
2880 SE 31st Street
Ocala, Florida 34471-6252
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Well, Jerry Pournell says that there is a new amiga
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 18:33:57 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul27.153124.1589@cc.gatech.edu>

It is unlikely CBM sent Jerry "I expect you'll send me a free machine"
Pournelle a 600, since CBM has no official plans to market the machine
in the US at this time.

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: Chris_Lynn_Minshall@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 article
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 20:46:11 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul28.122455.5873@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>

I wish that were a "cruel joke"....however.......

Chris
From: seibert@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Ewald Seibert)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: TOS - Did they ever fix it
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:00:11 GMT
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Originator: seibert@hphalle6e.informatik.tu-muenchen.de


In article <1992Jul27.004328.25208@cs.rose-hulman.edu>, catapcnl@Rose-Hulman.Edu. (Chris Lawrence) writes:
|> 
|> Did they ever fix that crap in Atari's TOS about those Line A and Line F  
|> op-codes (for the unininitiated - Atari uses (used?) illegal (on the 68000)  
|> instructions (that triggered software exceptions) to call many system routines.   
|> Anyways, this wasn't a *great* idea - TOS bombed on the advanced processors  
|> that used these instructions, and therefore killed off much development with  
|> advanced processors)?  Or are they still there, ready to crucify the Falcon?
|> --
|> Chris Lawrence
|> Pretender to the Throne; Destroyer of the Faith
|> -----------------------------------------------
|> "Giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to  
|> teenage boys."
|>      - P. J. O'Rourke, "Parliament of Whores"

Line-A Traps were made public but make no problems on 020,030,040
... they shouldn't be used any more.
Line-F Traps were wrong but made no problems to any ATARIan at all
  (TRIED TO USE A TOS<2.05 ON A UPGRADED amiga   HO HO)
  as ATARI always shipped a TOS suitable with the processor int you computer
  while the F-Traps were only used for internal jumps inb the TOS.

Bye

-- 
==============================================================================
seibert@hphalle9.informatik.tu-muenchen.de   ist
Ewald Seibert, Herschelstr.1 8070 Ingolstadt,  0841-86480

    Dont't blame ATARI for things, the GURU told you from the ARABIAN NIGHTS (*
==============================================================================

(*  = Maerchen aus 1001 Nacht
From: peter@blade (Peter Korsten)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Rumor IS Real!
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:57:16 GMT
Organization: MCGV Stack, Eindhoven University of Technology, the Netherlands.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:
: Falcons rumors very short..starting in April, shipping at German show!! 
: LONGEST rumor is Commodore Ranger and new AA chips.  New rumor is
: Commodore developers have to wait until January meeting to see new
: chips! 

Talking about rumors: what the heck IS the Ranger? Or the AA chipset?
I heard about the AA chipset, but how real is it?

: IF you do not like Atari say so!  Atari and Tramiels are not perfect
: but they made Vic 20, C64, Atari 400/800, Amiga chips, ST, and
: soon fast and powerful Falcons!!!

Tramiel did Vic 20 and C64. Ugly look, nice hardware, stupid software.

Atari did the 400/800.

Tramiel did certainly not do the Amiga chips. These people (Jay Miner
etc.) left Atari before Tramiel was kicked out of Commodore and bought
Atari (broke again) from Waner Bros.

Because of the excellent negotiating techniques of mister Tramiel, the
man himself, who offered Amiga Computers less, each time when they
discussed the takeover over Amiga by Atari, they lost the machine
to Commodore who offered twice the initially asked price for the
company.

If Atari got wise, they would also kick Tramiel out of their company.

The ST performs less than the average Amiga. It has a stupid operating
system. (What did TOS stand for, anyway?) If they manage to put the
Falcon on the market, I think it's the last thing Atari will ever do.

They should have sticked with the computer games.

					Peter.
--
Peter Korsten, in real life peter@stack.urc.tue.nl
"Now that we know how humans do it, how does the Amiga do it ?"
- Amiga ROM Kernel Reference Manual, Libraries & Devices, 2nd edition
--- This signature will change when I get the 3rd edition ---
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:41:10 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <parris.711821356@fig.cs.scarolina.edu> parris@cs.scarolina.edu (Barry Parris) writes:
>fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
>
>>In article <62536@cup.portal.com>, TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:
>>> Point of reference, a DELL 386DX-33 with 4MB ram, 80M HD, supervga and
>>> monitor, DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1, 24 hour on-site service for 1 year
>>> is $1550.
>>>
>>	You know, I'm curious.  How do these people sell so cheap?
>
>Volume!  Volume!  Volume!

We won't be undersold!



-- 
/* It's not a cruise... It's the Love Boat*/
/* Iank@microsoft.com                     */
/* I want my 32bit chip set               */