From: yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Sheep in Organizations
Date: 25 Dec 92 23:56:01 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <1992Dec25.130508.1@acad3.alaska.edu> nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>Proplem is that some 75% of the land in Alasaka is either Federal or
>State Government or Local Governments, of Native Corps. 

That's 75% of a whole lot of acres. But  why do you think that you have a
right to grab land from the public or the native americans?

>> You're asking for a handout. You want the general public to give you our
>> property for your private benefit. Why the hell should we? There are
>> millions of acres of privately held land in Alaska. Earn some money and
>> buy some instead of trying to grab our public land.
>
>Yes there is some private land.. But have you ever tried to do anything with
>much of it. Also by Alaska State Law you can't own the sub-surface rights to
>the minerals available..

Take that up with the state of alaska. Not my problem.

>Question why does there have to be so much "Public"
>land most is in places where you can't even get to unless you have a plane..and
>even if you have a plane, you can't set foot on it..

Because many of us value the preservation of some wilderness on the
north american continent, and we would like *our* public land to be used
that way. 
>> 
>> No. I mean that National Parks are for the benefit of all americans and 
>> public property should not be given away. 
>> 
>Question is how did this "Public Property" come about? And why must the FED

Same way that private property came about: theft. 

>own land anyway? I wonder how money the GOV pays to upkeep/maintain FEDERAL
>land that they don't need to maintain. Turn most or all over to the States or
>the Public.. 

The Federal government owns land because the public gets advantages out of
common ownership of land that it would not get out of private ownership of
land.

>>>When the founding fathers started our nation is was becuase of economic
>>>reasons, they were all land owners.. Do you think they would liek it that they
>>>did not own the land, but were only borrowing it.. Read up what feudalism is
>>>and you find what Im talking about..
>> 
>> Tom Paine was not. Ever heard of him? But you should read some works by
>> the founding fathers if you want to invoke them. For example, you might want
>> to read Jefferson's letters to Monroe on land ownership. He explicitly
>> dismisses the theory that ownership of land should entitle the land owner
>> to use it up or to do with it whatever he/she pleases. Maybe Jefferson
>> was a, god I hate to say it, *socialist*. 
>> 
>Did they all not earn their bread on land, also did not Tom Jefferson own
>slaves... Maybe I should read the letters.. I try to keep an open mind.. I just

If you're going to claim that the founding fathers would have agreed with
you, you should read some of their writings. While they were big on private
property, they were also big on civic duties and public good.

>get annoyed when to build a road, dam, or anyting to benefit the local
>population, you have to fill out a 400+ page environmental impact statement,
>and that drives the price of the project up thru the roof.. 

The reasons for these regulations are that before we had them we enjoyed
many terrible and poorly planned roads dams and drainage projects that
are now costing us lots of  money to undo. 

>As I say again, do I meddle in your politics of your state? If I don't have the
>courtesy to not meddle in the polictics of my state. And that includes all
>lands therein.. 

Guess again. We all live in the same country, and our federally owned lands
are not the property of just the citizens of the states where the properties
are found.  But, go ahead, meddle in our state politics, it's a free
country.

>
>
>Michael Adams
>Alias: Morgoth/Ghost Wheel 
>nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu


-- 


yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: sci.environment