From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 08:00:47 GMT

edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall) writes:
>Given the estimated readership for netnews, voter participation as a
>percentage has always been small--and has long been declining.  My own
>suspicion is that this may be partly the result of poorly informed users,
>but mostly is the result of the fact that to /most/ readers of netnews,
>creating or renaming newsgroups just isn't that big of an issue.

I assert that it is another thing entirely.

Many people on the net are ALIENATED by the bovine excrement that 
passes for newsgroup creation processes. I've watched news.groups
for a few years now. It's always the same...a small minority of
people about to endure some onerous decision made by the politics
of another small minority. 

Most people don't want any part of it. 

>name, there has been nothing even close to this magnitude of an
>issue involved here.  Yet it is being argued like a death penalty
>case.

Because we had a good newsgroup. Then the news.groups people stepped
in and ruined it. It's that simple. This is the perception on the other
side. More and more people are sending mail in support...now I know that
most of you guys discount this fact as either unprovable nonsense or
statistical noise...but it's very real to me. And I, for one, am really
sick and tired of the news.groups politics as it has been.

>There has been no /clear/ violation of the guidelines brought up, nor

But the spirit of them has been violated. A vote which was against the
*real* will of the net (not the perceived will) has been passed and
ramroded through.

They didn't even kiss us first. 

>be an exception to the guidelines.  This creates the following problem:
>if we decide to ignore the guidelines without a clear and generally
>agreed upon rationale for setting them aside in this /specific/ case as
>opposed to others, we'll have weakened the the guildelines to a major
>extent.

Yeah, yeah. Not that you don't mean well...but I've heard this before and
I don't buy it. Next you'll be telling me that it'll be the death of 
the net to do so...

>[He does]

...and I don't buy that either. Human beings are notorious for being 
flexible when their life depends on it...why not now? BECAUSE
there's an agenda operating here. 

>In my opinion the best course of action is to amend the guidelines, if
>that is necessary, but keep on following them in any case.  I suspect
>that the majority of news admins would agree with me on this.  

And it is my theory that most of the news USERS do NOT. 

>Dave and others who are unhappy with the results of the guidelines
>should propose ammendments to them.  I've seen threats, and rants and
>raves, but no constructive proposals.

I am working on them. Please be patient, and you'll hear from me again.

-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

   A man appointed to be judge has been killed without a knife.
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