From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,sci.astro
Subject: Re: Menzel and UFOs
Keywords: ufo
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:40:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <Bw4y81.FvH@csn.org> jrblack@teal.csn.org (Roger Black) writes:
>In article <gdavis.719083919@griffin> gdavis@griffin.uvm.edu (Gary Davis) 
>writes:
>
>>The first volume I selected was the 1977 publication by DoubleDay,
>>"The UFO Enigma", Donald Menzel, Harvard Astronomer.

I should point out that Menzel's co-author here was Dr. Ernest Taves, 
a respected psychiatrist. It was suggested in an earlier post that Menzel
should have gotten proper input from a mental health professional on
the matter of the Hill case. Obviously, he did.


>Menzel should be taken with a very large dose of salt.  A number of the
>people who dealt with him in the early years of ufology (such as E.J.
>Ruppelt, the head of Project Blue Book from 1951-53, and J. Allen
>Hynek, the science adviser to Blue Book for many years) apparently
>considered Menzel to be arrogant, devious, and dishonest.  Many of his
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>"scientific" explanations of UFO sightings were so outlandish that even
>people who were sympathetic to his conclusions were embarrassed by his
>arguments.  People on both sides of the UFO controversy had a great
>deal of difficulty understanding why such an intelligent and capable
>scientist was so determined to make an ass of himself in public when it
>came to UFOs.

This is nothing short of slander against a respected astronomer, whose
contributions to the science of astronomy far outweigh any those of any 
pro-UFOlogist in the field. I agree that Menzel was sometimes arrogant
(many distinguished, elderly scientists sometimes get that way). I
further agree that sometimes he was careless (who isn't?). But
to call him "devious and dishonest" is a reprehensible and groundless
insult to the memory of an oustanding scientist, who taught and did research
for many years at Harvard University.


>Stanton Friedman may have found the answer to that question after
>Menzel's death, when he obtained access to Menzel's personal papers and
>discovered that Menzel led a double life:  Academic scientist by day,
>intelligence agent by night.  Over the years he apparently worked for
>both the CIA and the NSA, as well as a number of military agencies and
>industrial concerns, and he held a Top Secret Ultra clearance.  Given
>the history of the intelligence community's systematic subversion of
>UFO organizations and their repeated efforts to spread confusion and
>disinformation on the subject, Menzel's ties to that community are more
>than a little suspicious.

Whoever has more confidence in Friedman, who calls himself the "flying
saucer physicist" and has been a full-time UFO promoter for many
years, than in Dr. Menzel, is seriously deluded. Friedman has
been promoting many UFO hoaxes over the years, including the ridiculous
"Gulf Breeze UFO photos" and the "MJ-12 papers". If we are comparing
credibility and character, I would rate that of a respected scientist
like Menzel over that of a slick UFO huckster like Friedman any day.

Friedman and pals would like us to forget that, during World War II,
virtually EVERY scientist in the U.S. became involved in military
research, most of which was highly classified. Even the late Dr. J.
Allen Hynek, a saint to those in the UFO movement, did classified
research on military projects during World War II. I heard him say
this myself. Even Asimov and Heinlein did secret military research,
and had high clearances; does this make them suspect?

>In any case, for the most part his activities in these areas were kept
>secret from the public, his academic and scientific colleagues, his
>closest friends, and even his family.  But they do seem to have been
>known to the author(s) of the so-called "MJ-12" UFO documents, who put
>Menzel's name on an otherwise plausible list of government officials in
>the alleged UFO control group.  This is, in fact, one of the strongest
>arguments that the MJ-12 documents, while almost certainly bogus,
>originated from somewhere within the bowels of the U.S. intelligence
>community instead of some lone hoaxer's basement.

The "MJ-12 papers" are garbage. They were confabulated by a hoaxer
using a photocopied signature of Harry Truman taken from a real
letter in the Truman library. Get real.

-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.sources