From: fred_s@earwax.pei.com (Fred Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Empires in Arms
Date: 13 Oct 92 06:44:55 GMT
Organization: Nerds On Parade

I have to agree with many of the points made here.  However, I had to bring
up a slight difference of opinion on one or two things:

In article <A2QRBMTK@cc.swarthmore.edu> hirai@cc.swarthmore.edu (Eiji Hirai) writes:
>In fact, it's to Spain's advantage to crush Turkey's fleets.  Threaten
>Turkey.  Get some informal concessions out of him/her (like Turkey agreeing
>to leave certain African minors alone for Spain to conquer), then declare war
>on him a month later. :-)

One caution: when a Spain invades a Turkey, the Turks may lose lots of PPs
to the Spanish if they don't surrender, but this only works for a limited
amount of time.  The Turks auto-magically regenerate at the end of the year,
win or lose.  Any Spanish lost in a campaign co-o-o-m-m-m-m-m  ba-a-a-a-ck
soooooooooo sssssllllllow-w-w-w-ly.  (know wha'dyimean, Vern?)

>> If France invades you
>
>You *want* France to invade you. (Ok, that was an overstatement.) As
>Napoleon found out and as your French player will find out, Spain is the
>Vietnam of the Napoloenic age.  It's sure folly to invade Spain.  France
>will drain most of her money and manpower if she tries to occupy all the
>provincial capitals of Spain.  I've heard of this happen and France becomes
>too tempting a target for Prussia, Austria (and anyone else for that matter)
>when most of the French forces are trying to stay alive when your guerillas
>are cutting off supply lines right and left.
>
>Say to France:  "If you invade me, I will never sue for peace.  You will
>have to occupy all my provincial capitals before you can get peace treaty
>out of me.  Now, do you really want that to happen?"  (If France says yes,
>then you're playing with an idiot and there's no use in pursuing a rational
>argument anymore).

Two cautions here - both VERY serious for the Spanish player to consider:

1. Even if the French don't ultimately take all of the Spanish provincial
capitals, once they take Madrid, you lose 1 PP per quarter, can't manip, and
have to live off the generosity of the British and/or others for money.  (Not
to mention you lose all the manpower for any provinces you DO lose - and the
Brits can't make good on that.)   The French will also usually crush any live
Spanish corps within marching range (and a few that aren't) and if they start
seeing any trouble on the other side, they can usually pull out.  Bottom line:
you have some negotiation leeway with the French, but DON'T push it - even if
the war doesn't help the French it will almost always hurt you worse.

2. Although I will attest from experience that it is difficult for the French
to take all your provincial capitals - particularly if the British are
actively assisting you, it is NOT impossible.  If they have enforced peace
and/or cooperation from others, (particularly the Germans) then you can't
expect help from the east.  And if the French DO take all of your capitals,
you have to surrender with no negotiating leeway whatsoever.  Consider that
the French choose remove Spanish corps and take three Spanish provinces as two
of their three victory conditions.  Then the next time they're free to pound
you, it becomes much easier - they have three less provinces to take and
can anchor their supply lines from well inside the Iberian penninsula.  If
you get into this situation, it'll be a long game for the Spanish.

In short, I'm not nearly as optimistic about Spain's negotiating power
vis-a-vis France as Eric is.

Fred