HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: DXS23@psuvm.psu.edu (Deepak Srivastava)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: RJB-BM Dispute (Re: Jakhan's comments)
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:47:24 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <93024.195624DXA4@psuvm.psu.edu>, <DXA4@psuvm.psu.edu> says:


>historians claim themselves as 'independent and neutral'. And let me tell you
>this RJB-BM issue will never be solved amicably in the courts, does not matter
>how the courts decide, one side will always reject the verdict

Just to put the records straight: it is always VHP that has claimed
that they will reject any court verdict which is not in their favor.
BJP pretending to be a national party having aspirations of ruling
at the center have explicitly never said that they will disobey any
court order. It is just another matter that while in the government
they did all in their power to see that the court order is completely
disobeyed.

So lets not pretend that to start with BJP's position was same as that
of the VHP and BMAC.


>
>><DXA4@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>=============================================================================
>=
>> Dont you know that
>>the cases on these issues have been their in the court for the past four
>>decades, and almost all the interim judgements have gone in their favor. Does
>>that not prove that they have stronger evidence than their opponents. The
>only
>>thing they donot want the court to sit in the judgement on the issue of Ram's
>>birthplace which is a matter of faith.
>>=============================================================================
>=

Dont you know that the dispute is only 500 years old ? VHP/BJP's jump into it
is only six years old (1986) when Cong(i) like so many other times screwed
up and let the gate opened ?

If the BJP/VHP had such convincing evidences in their favor why did they not
do it leagally?  Perhaps to show the street strength of their cader or to make
a background for future such activities where, when it comes to the matter of
faith, these SANT and MAHANT are obviously above law. The point is not that
it is wrong for some people/group to think that laws can be broken for conveni
ence but then after breaking the law trying to sugar coat it by harping upon
the underlying causes for their actions pretending that lets forget and forgive
is rediculous. Why ? Because every murderer has an UNDERLYING cause for committ
ing the murder unless he/she is insane. Are these people pleading not guilty
for the reason of insanity ? No they are saying we are not guilty of breaking
the law because we were frustated and we had a reason for feeling so.



>this VHP has opposed such a move at this stage on the plea that SC judges are
>not capable of making subjective analysis of material pertaining to the
>archaeo

VHP has always taken a position so that the issue is decided on the
streets. The Ayodhya on Dec 6 was the begining of the drama in which
even the Bombay and Surat riots are in the opening scene.

Well lets see what is more to come..


regards..       Deepak

>
>><DXA4@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>=============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: bond@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Girish)
Subject: Hypocracy of the leftists
Organization: University of New Brunswick, Fredericton, NB, Canada
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:00:15 GMT


On the hypocricy of the leftists......

     In the article "Ayodhya is  back  on  the  top  of  the  national
agenda",  written  before  the  December  6  happennings, Shri Kanchan
Gupta, assistant editor of 'The Pioneer', writes:

.......

Duplicity of Left, Congress

     For that matter, no less laughable is the new found regard of the
Left  for  national  institutions which were  till recently derided by
Marxists as instruments to perpetuate the rule of the bourgeoisie  and
deny  power  to  the  proletariat.  Interestingly, the repositories of
Marxist values also happen to be some of the highest paid lawyers  who
have spent time in Inner Temple, but that is another story.

     Of immediate interest is the duplicity of the Congress  which  is
the  most vocal about upholding court orders and the judiciary's right
to sit in judgement over  what  is  essentially  a  matter  of  faith.
Today's champions of the judiciary need to be reminded the irreverence
with which Jawaharlal Nehru treated the men in  black  robes:  "Judges
sit  in ivory towers and should not be allowed to overrule the will of
crores of people." What the advocates of the  Ram  Temple  are  saying
today is essentially the same.

     SIMILARLY, IT NEEDS TO BE PUT ON RECORD THAT THE CPM,  WHICH  HAS

BEEN  RAUCOUSLY DEMANDING  PUNITIVE  ACTION AGAINST THE  KALYAN  SINGH

GOVERNMENT  FOR "NOT IMPLEMENTING COURT ORDERS",  HAD  NO  COMPUCTIONS

ABOUT  FLOUTING  THE CALCUTTA HIGH COURT'S ORDER DIRECTING THE DEMOLI-

TION OF AN UNAUTHORIZED MOSQUE ON THE SPECIOUS PLEA THAT IT WOULD HURT

MUSLIM  SENTIMENTS.  NO  LESS  TELLING  IS THE MANNER IN WHICH THE CPM

COERCED A JUDGE TO DROP THE PROCEEDINGS THAT HAD BEEN INITIATED ON THE

BASIS  OF WHAT LATER CAME TO KNOWN AS THE "QURAN PETITION." OF COURSE,

IT CAN BE, AND WILL BE, ARGUED THAT SUCH IRREVERENCE IS JUSTIFIED WHEN

INDULGED IN BY "SECULAR FORCES."

.......

     To enable the fall of spurious secularism, the  Ayodhya  campaign
needs to be pursued to its logical conclusion. And Mr L. K. Advani has
taken the first step towards this end by taking the issue to the  peo-
ple.  Because  those "who sit in ivory towers should not be allowed to
overrule the will of crores of people."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: chakrsa@eng.auburn.edu (Sanjoy  Chakraborty)
Subject: Re: Please Make me Bengali [ Bengali cultu
Reply-To: chakrsa@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 08:07:25 GMT

In article 20506@news.columbia.edu, ta-md71@muddnext19.cc.columbia.edu (Mousumi Das) writes:
>In article <Jan.4.11.06.06.1993.6643@paul.rutgers.edu>  
>partha@paul.rutgers.edu (nowhere_man) writes:
>> yaahooooooooooooooo!!!!
>> 
>> alt.bengali.adda.... 
>> lets do it...
>> 
>> isssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.. katodin bade 8b 'r thek er katha
>> shunlam.. aha .. aha..
>> 
>> JU 'r jhil er dhar er thek? (LH er pash e) Boudi'r canteen???
>> 
>> hmmmmmmm.. 
>  
>nathu da , boudi , jhil, 8B-r thek  atodin bade shune kirokam nostalgic  
>lagche. sanaskriti-r katha karur money pore na?

shudu ki sanskriti ? aro koto kotha mone pore jai......  raat barota obdi boshe 
lobby'te adda; taar saathe cha aar chow-mein; pore LH'e bondhuder charte giye 
Bithi'dir disapproving looks...

wonder, ekhon phire gele kemone lagbe ? guess it would never be the same. chayer 
dokaner chokragulo chara aar keu chena thakbe ??
From: gidh@bucknell.edu (Kedar Gidh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: BENCO & IT-BHU alumni list
Date: 25 Jan 1993 14:39:04 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA
NNTP-Posting-Host: vega.cs.bucknell.edu



A list of BENCO & IT-BHU alumni abroad is being compiled. The idea is to  
have one complete list so that all BENCO & IT-BHU alumni can maintain contact  
with one another. So far the list contains 288 names!!!                        
                                                                               
If your name is not in the list, please respond to gidh@bucknell.edu through 
e-mail with the following info.    
                                                                               
1) Name                                                                        
2) Branch (at IT-BHU)                                                          
3) Year of graduation from IT-BHU                                              
4) Present University/Co. abroad (with city)                                   
5) Current Email address                                                       
6) Most convenient Ph. no.                                                     
                                                                               
Based on your replies, the list will be updated regularly. All those who       
contribute will get a copy of the list.                                        
                                                                               
Hope to have a real good network of BENCO & IT-BHU alumni abroad.              
                                                                               
Kedar                                                                          
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Ayodhya: the looney right and hypocritical left
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:33:07 GMT



Looking closely at the new-found offensive of the "looney" right against
the "hypocritical" left and the "pseudo"-secularists, one can see the inability
or rather unwillingness of these neo-rightists to discern the difference between
the Ayodhya imbroglio and examples cited as its counterargument.  

Its concievable that the C(i) would have gone head over heels in its classic
act of "appeasement" to butter its hindu electorate and counter the rise of
the BJP, had it not been for the "little hitch" that the site was also disputed
with the presence of a mosque. 

There wouldn't be a problem if the site was not disputed and I'm sure muslims
would be unmoved if the C(i) govt. and the BJP went out of their way to rebuild
the temple to endear themselves with hindu voters. Indeed Arun Nehru did try to
please the hindu sentiment when he got the disputed site opened. Unfortunately
for the C(i) he unleashed a windfall for the BJP and the C(i) lost any accrued
benefit resulting in the wipeout of the C(I) in the next state elections.

The BJP knew that the problem was intractable and a lot of political mileage was
to be gained by bringing it to the centre stage. They made it certain that that
the only way a temple could be built there was the unconditional handing over
the site to them and demolishing the mosque which they accomplished by employing
several thousand people whom they called "outsiders and anti-social elements
planted by others" to bring the structure down.

The C(i) was unable to displease either side and so took recourse to settling
the matter through the courts [which I think was the only sensible thing to do]
but with the BJP-VHP-RSS bent on exacting a tribute from the muslims in general
and demolishing the influence of the C(I) in particular, the combine flatly
rejected the move.



--Javed.



Note: I don't endorse communal politicking of any kind, but these *are* ground
realities.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: venugop@athena.cs.uga.edu (YOSSARIN ARAM)
Subject: Re: Get real
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:16:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.073354.28459@fuug.fi> an7931@anon.penet.fi writes:
>	So they almost pulled it off this time too ? I mean who 
>	can convince the good bishop of Colombo to call Mr.Pirbhakaran
>	"Humane"!!
>		Mr. Pirabhakaran Humane????
>	The good bishop must have been sleeping for the last 15 years.
>	Or perhaps a misplaced sense of humour!!!
>	Hah ..Calling Mr Pirabhakaran "humane" would be akin to calling
>	Jeffrey Dhammer a vegetarian! Or perhaps  Mr Milosovic
>	of Serbia a mother Theresa.
>		Grow up boys.Be real.All this "humane" facade was just
>	to get those guns Kittu was bringing over right on time for
>	the next offensive.Releasing 2 cops out of the hundreds taken
>	was such a noble gesture.Of course the idiots in Colombo would
>	have fallen for it hook, line and stinker if not for our 
>	departed friend Kittu's little adventure at sea.
>		Of course Kittu was bringing a peace proposal.The 
>	proposal must have weighed tons since he needed a 600ton
>	ship to carry the "peace proposal".Or was it just a final
>	proposal to break off some more "pieces" from the island?
>	Perhaps the stuff that was thrown overboard may have been
>	part of the peace proposal too!! 
>		And quit whinning about the "act of Piracy on
>	international waters ".Since when did the LTTE start to
>	abide by International law?Did you get permission from
>	Interpol to murder our Rajiv?Or perhaps they were acting
>	in accordance with international law when they massacred
>	those countless Moslem, Sinnaleese women and Children
>	few months back.Or maybe just maybe they were acting 
>	under international law when they wiped out Padmanabha
>	right here in Madras?
>		Get a grip you terroists.The fat lady has started
>        singing.Kittu got what he deserved .No more No less.
>	The same awaits the others too. And then my friends we will
>	start looking at your fund raising efforts to an International
>	terroists organization and I am sure the INS and the FBI 
>	would be very much interested in you persoanly.(Of course
>	for the Canadian patrons the RCMP has already started doing
>	it's job!!) 
>		As for you Sinnaleese get off your butts and get a
>	government that can govern  and an Army that can fight.
>		
>					Avinash Giri		
>				 
>		
> Do agree with every word you say,am glad that the RCMP has taken
the right steps and wish the FBI would do the same ,wonder what the
Home Office and the MI5 would do about it. We don't need terrorism
in our country and can do with it. What ever the credo,dogma,or 
sect ....they should be dealt the same way and desrve no sympathies...
Now we have this communal thing to contend with and the totality of 
all this violence is creating disinvestment in the country.
bye
gopa



Long Live Rock and Roll               "...to be a rock and not to roll."
From: sunder@grusin.crhc.uiuc.edu (Srinivas Sunder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Super computers from India...way to GO guys
Date: 27 Jan 1993 02:01:16 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: grusin.crhc.uiuc.edu

In article <9301262231.AA06807@ho10.eng.ua.edu>, bkannan@ho10.eng.ua.edu (Balaji Kannan) writes:
|> 
|> gt0138d@prism.gatech.EDU (Sumiti) writes:
|> 
|> >Am I missing something here? Isn't the President the Commander-in-chief
|>                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
|> >of the Armed forces? We already had two Muslim C-in-Cs. 
|>                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> 
|>         I guess the term used in India is 'Supreme Commander of the Armed
|>         Forces' and the President is that person.
|> 
|>         Fakruddin Ali Ahmed was a 'Muslim President' [died while in office].
|>         Who was the other? I seem to have forgotten.

Dr. Zakir Hussain, 3rd President.


-- 
Srinivas Sunder                                         sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu

If my employer shares these views, I'd be most surprised.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rk@hls.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: India Today
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:24:54 GMT


Hi,

I want to subscribe to India Today. I heard they have offices
in New York. Could someone give me the details of how to
contact them ? Address, phone number etc ?

Pl reply by email.

Thanx,

---
S Ramakrishnan, Hughes LAN Systems Inc., Mountain View, Ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: sjayanna@wam.umd.edu (Sanjeev Jayanna)
Subject: Law schools
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:00:40 GMT

can anyone send me a list of the best law schools
which are located in India?

thanks

sjayanna@wam.umd.edu
From: srik@cs.arizona.edu (Srikanth Raghavan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: fabricated posts ("sneaky posts" a la Vijay Fafat)
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:01:43 GMT

#In article <1993Jan22.133553.14924@ncsu.edu>, ascidamb@unity.ncsu.edu (Aruna Cidambi) writes:
#> Arathi, don't u know better than to play with kids? When will u ever learn?
#
#	Surprise, Surprise, another one nursing the same sentiments ... :-)
#Whoa! The world is full of wonders!
#
#> sigh! and that too deficient kids like these -- one is toothless, the
#> other is truth-less and the third is both. for those who r fortunate
#> enough not to know these lemme explain -- ssd: toothless, u-know-who: truthle
#					  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#	my sympathies!
#	But FFT, truthless. FFT, is it u she is referring to here, really?
#	Allah! tell me it is not true!
#
#	ss
#	
#> and venu: both.
#> 
#> ok kids, game's over. run along now, and not a whimper from the three of
#	   ^^^^^^^^^^^
#	
#	The sad part is it never ends when u want it to!
#
#> u. we don't want the big aunties to hit us where it hurts most, now do we?
#
#	It is said that Indira Gandhi started the Akali problem to topple
#the Janata govt.; ended up taking her life. Hell, I had no intentions of
#sounding so sinister. Anyway was toppling SAWNET a motive here! U kids must
#be careful it could easily be interpreted as such, what with Uma already
#receiving mails questioning the authenticity of SAWNET. :-) I think it would 
#have been worthwhile if you had transcribed an article 'Writing on the Wall'
#which appeared in the latest PlayBoy issue and posted it on SCI. I would
#have loved to do so but unfortunately it is just a bit too long. But going
#by the voluminous nature of the 'sneaky posts of SAWNET' it should be easy
#for you (all those involved, don't take it personally) to do, also no 
#creativity involved here, just copying! :-)
#
#> 
#> p.s: arathi, watch now. they r gonna come howling back, in the true sci
#> tradition of boys-will-be-boys-if-not-worse, with the support of friends
#> and enemies alike.
#> -- 
#> aruna 
#>                                     ***
#> Fiercely the evening sun descended
#> Burning its way across the heavens.
#
#	Nice (i was referring to the above verse) !
#-srik
#
#
#
From: sunder@grusin.crhc.uiuc.edu (Srinivas Sunder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Why Muslin persecution is rempant these days?
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:04:26 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: grusin.crhc.uiuc.edu

In article <1993Jan26.203629.15245@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, mohans@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mohan.sekhar) writes:
|> {
|> >   I agree with your personal opinion, anyways. In this aspect Soviet Marxism
|> >   and Islam have attained the same objectives. To liberate the "downtrodden"
|> >   by encouraging them to resort to violent means and inculcating people to
|> 
|> Both are political ideologies masquerading as religions...Both believe that
|> everything on the face of the earth belongs to them... both have supressed
|> resistance through terror, torture, tyranny, treason and treachery...
|> One is already on the verge ob being extinct...the other will shortly follow..
|> Prasad.
|> }
|> 
|> Prasad - You have said it right !
|> 
|> I have a question to all our netters -
|> 
|> "Even as US celebrates almost 250 years of democracy, there is not even a 
|> single country (with muslims in majority) where democracy exists"

Turkey. Pakistan. Bangladesh. Malaysia. Indonesia (well, sort of). Kazakhstan
(again, sort of).

|> Mohan

-- 
Srinivas Sunder                                         sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu

If my employer shares these views, I'd be most surprised.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: kumar@carleman.mit.edu (Kumar)
Subject: U.S. Citizen NRIs Please leave India alone (Re: BJP)
Organization: MIT Department of Mathematics
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 03:08:10 GMT

verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma) writes:
>	I am not a BJP supporter. I don't like politics. I hate congress
>	more than BJP. I will pick BJP if asked to pick a party. It doesn't
>	mean that I like BJP. I am an American first and an Indian
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>	nationalist second. I will fight anything negative about India
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>	among my fellow Americans. Supporting democratic principles is
>	not unAmerican but very much American.

So we see the true colors - like expatriates khalistanis and kasmiris
here we have the group of fundamentalists promoting their ideas in their
land of origin and that support has partly filled up RSS/BJP/VHP pockets
and is responsible for so much death and destruction following the temple
mess. Mr. Verma will you please tell us also how much stake (through
investments) you have in India's well being? If you do not then shut up
and if you do then you are burning your money by supporting the rabble-
rousers. 

Definitely the people living
there (and that includes millions of minorities) definitely have much
larger stake than you and please do not destroy their economy with your
support for BJP et al (known through your posts over last months).

Have you estimated how much financial loss alone India has taken because
of the temple building agenda pursued by BJP/VHP in last 2 months alone?
What is the expected result which can be worth that economic cost and 
worth so many lives lost?

BTW, just like India is hindu majority, this country is christian 
majority and western thought centered. Will like to known why
Pat Robertson and Pat Buchanan and David Duke should tolerate you
here? If you should be given the nice treatment here why not
minorities in India? Ofcourse many hindus of your variety will
love it if Diwali or Holi were to be declared a holiday and Hindi
instruction alongwith Ramanyana and Mahabharata offered in schools
- will that be pandering the minority at the cost of majority. 
Have you ever taken advantage of being 'an asian minority' through
affirmative action? Do you think that your children who might not
do so well in schools here [high school life here has many more 
pressures] should take advantage of affirmative action to get ahead?

Sorry about raising so many questions but that is probably the only 
way you will understand the tolerance required in India and the impediment
BJP/VHP/RSS are to that very tolerance. May be
an anti-Indian riot by some digruntled group will make you all
see the light.

It is so sad that even though you are a minority here you can not understand
the problems faced by a minority in India. Is it possible that
persecution that you might have faced here has made you beleive that
Hindus are persecuted in India?

Enough for now.


-- 
Thanks

Sanjay
From: seeta@eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju UdayaBhaskar Sarma)
Subject: Re: V. P. Singh fasts in Bombay .....
Reply-To: seeta@eng.wayne.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Wayne State University, Detroit Michigan, USA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:18:46 GMT

 (Virendra Verma) writes:
-+>	Don't you know he is a Mahatma which means resist when Hindus
-+>	kill Muslims and eat well, probably beef and wine, when Muslims
-+>	or Sikhs kill Hindus.
-+>
-+>namaste,


OY ! God !


deliver me and this world from such paranoid people.		and


deliver me and this world from violence.			and


deliver me and others from blind hatred				and


deliver me 2 babes : the measurements are unnecessary, as any size/shape would do
		given my present state...


and namaste...

Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: nvk@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (nishikant.karmali)
Subject: Re: IA plane hijacked
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:56:37 GMT

From article <1993Jan22.171343.11266@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, by nvk@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (nishikant.karmali):
> Just heard on CNN-Radio News IA plane hijacked with 47 passanger.
> Landed at Lucknow aiport. Hijackar demands meeting with leader
> of the opposition party seems like BJP...


CNN-Radio News at 12:30 EST...

  Hijackers gave it up and has been captured per Indian TV news.
  Quotes CNN..

Nishi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,alt.hindu