HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:32:20 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.173814.27117@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.164424.26578@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:

I wrote:
>>with you to convince her parents that intermarriage is acceptable.  
>>Conservative ...
>>rabbis do not approve of intermarriage.


Art Kamlet replied:
>That's correct.
>
>However, many, perhaps most conservative rabbis will approve of a
>marriage between a Jew and someone who converts to Judaism, even
>if the conversion was in anticipation of marrying a Jew.

I was under the impression that Conservative rabbis (at least in
Baltimore) require at least a _pretense_ of serious commitment,
and that a person approaching the rabbi saying "I just want to do
this to satisfy her parents" would be rejected.  Perhaps I erred;
it would not be the first time. :-(  Rabbi Arian, where are you?




-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: donations
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:29:32 GMT
Keywords: godd, bad, ugly


Someone recently posted a request for information on charities that are
worth our contributions.  This is a partial list of the organizations
that I feel are at least worth the doantion to cover their mailing
costs to me.  I've added a few comments.  At the end of the list I've
included some I question.  If any in the first part of the list are
problematic, I'd like to hear about them.

Charities I trust:

Aleh
(I just sent in a donation so no longer have the envelope with the address)
My parents know some of the people involved in this organization and are
very impressed with the low overhead and high quality care and concern of
the people involved and, by extension, the organization.

Shaare Zedek Hospital
American Committee for Shaare Zedek Hospital in Jerusalem
49 W 45th St
Suite 1100
New York, NY 10109

Our Way
333 W 7th Ave
18th Floor
New York, NY 10017

Vaad Mishmereth STaM
4902 16th Ave
Brooklyn, NY, 11204

Dorot
171 W 85th St
New York, NY 10024

The Jerusalem Foundation
PO Box 17305
Milwaukee WI 53217

SHAMIR Institute (although they send too many mailings)
580 Fifth Ave
Suite 625
New York, NY 10109                   

American Red Magen David for Israel
(I'll give to them instead of the International Red Cross at least until
the IRC recognizes the Israeli version)
888 7th Ave
Suite 403
New York, NY, 10102                 
-----------------------------------------
I strongly urge people NOT to give to
General Israel Orphans Home for Girls
(explanation available upon request)
------------------------------------------
Do any of our Israeli friends know about:
The Diskin Orphan Home in Israel
Keren Hayeled
Israel Cancer Research Fund
Jewish Heritage for the Blind
------------------------------------------
National Institute for Jewish Hospice might be good but they send so many
duplicate mailings I'm having doubts.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Chasidic Mysteries
Date: 30 Sep 1992 15:46:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


I believe the Author you are looking for is Faye Kellerman.

She has written a number of mysteries about an Orthodox widow
who meets, falls in love with, and marries a Police Detective.

The first in the Series is: Ritual Bath
Others include: Sacred and Profane, and Day of Atonement.
She has written about 7 stories in all.  

I've enjoyed them all and recommend the series.

ps: Her Husband, Jonathan Kellerman, is also a mystery writer.
	His books include one, _The Killing Ground_ , about a
	Detective in Jerusalem.  The rest are based in L.A. and
	feature a Child Psycholgist as the lead character.
	I also recommend these books.
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:33:53
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Oct1.130720.4695@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> <22533@venera.isi.edu>
	<1992Oct2.152611.20469@umbc3.umbc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu's message of Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:26:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.152611.20469@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:

   Sam Saal replied:
   >> If you're reading this newsgroup for followups to your article,  please
   >> understand that Alberto's post is _entirely_ in keeping wiht his usual
   >> rationalizations of his own break with Jewish tradition (and law) and in
   >> keeping with his sentiments about his own intermarriage.

   And Yigal commented:
   >I'm curious as to your reasons for believing that Mr. Pinkas's views on
   >love between Jews and non-Jews are any more a "rationalization" than are
   >your views on the same subject.

   Perhaps Sam's comments were occasioned by the fact that no Jewish
   sources (to the best of my knowledge) see the basis for tradition
   as the search for happiness.  Sam may be guessing that AAP's asssertion
   was post hoc justification for his intermarriage.

Which may be a completely bogus guess.  If aap adopted this before
getting married, it doesn't seem like a post hoc justification, but
rather a principled decision.

   The second reason may be more compelling, and is rooted in biology
   (e.g., Richard Dawkins "Selfish Gene") and anthropology (e.g., the
   cultural materialism of Marvin Harris).  Basically, if "valuing"
   Judaism means anything, it means ensuring the Judaism continues.
   Historically, intermarriage has, in the overwhelming majority of 
   cases, meant that the children or grandchildren will no longer identify
   themselves as Jews.  Those who value Judaism will thus oppose
   intermarriage.  Those who do not value Judaism (or who hold other
   values to be over-riding) will find no objection to intermarriage.

Let's leave biology out of it.  Judaism is not a genetic trait, but
rather a religion/tradition, and as such it's passed by conscious
decision.

I'm going to annoy people here (as if I haven't already) with a couple
of other comments:

1)  Inbreeding tends to weaken the line, hybridizing strengthens it (I'm
using this in the same sense as Eliot).

2)  I don't really know how to say this without *really* offending
someone, but Judaism should be able to survive even if some people do
intermarry.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hem%maverick@col400.att.com (Hillel E Markowitz)
Subject: Re: Tzom Gedalya
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <hem%maverick@col400.att.com (Hillel E Markowitz)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:24:51 GMT

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Tzom Gedalya
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Keywords: 

The newsreader seems to be giving trouble on posting articles.  My
apologies if this appeared already.

In article <199210021029.AA06817@das.wang.com> MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>
>Usually  one performs  a Brit  Milah during  daytime, perhaps  by that
>making it easier to find a minyan, but  can one not have a Brit in the
>evening? If one can,  so if a boy is born on Ellul  25, the eighth day
>being Tishre 3, why not perform the Brit sometime in the evening after
>the end of Rosh Hashana? In that  case everyone can eat at the se'uda.
>The only point against it could be the one brought by Warren, and that
>is  that after  two days  of Rosh  Hashana no  person is  able to  eat
>anything let alone a se'uda :-).
>
>On Tish'a  be'av whether  regular or postponed,  this trick  would not
>work, because  there the fasting  lasts the  whole day (not  just from
>morning till evening).
>
>   Michael Shimshoni


I doublechecked with Rabbi Kaganoff to verify my memory and there
is a mishna in Meseches Megillah which lists a number of things
that must be done during the day.  One of the items listed is Bris
Milah.

_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gfeygin@unicorn.eecg.toronto.edu (Gennady Feygin)
Subject: Jonathan Pollard
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Toronto
Distribution: toronto
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:32:47 GMT

Outside Toronto area please press k


Advertissment in Canadian jewish News informs
of a demonstration in front of US consulate 
Thursday Oct 1 at 12 noon. 
360 University Ave, Toronto

For further information call 781-3571
(Toronto Zionist Council)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: roman@hri.com (Roman Budzianowski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: On Polish and Jewish nationalism
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:20:54 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.

In article <1992Oct5.095857.12587@fuw.edu.pl>, michals@fuw.edu.pl (Michal Szleper) writes:

> >I certainly hope that this is not representative of the Polish
> >viewpoint on this issue.

> I'm affraid it is.

Since when Michal, you represent Polish point of view ? This was a rethorical question which
doesn't have to be answered. 

Roman
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 2 Oct 92 03:30:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu's message of 1 Oct 92 16:14:57 GMT

In article <1af861INN53o@uwm.edu> dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) writes:
>
> In article <1992Sep28.144550.26968@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
> daw@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Dave Webb) writes:
> >I desperately need some help and advice.  I have been dating a Jewish
> >girl from New York for the past 2 months and have developed a
> >wonderful relationship with her. . . .  The problem we are now facing
> >is her parents.
>  ........
>
>  I believe the suggestion that each person date others for six months
>  is also wise though I advocate an even longer period of seriously
>  dating alternative persons. . . .
>
>  Beyond rational issues, however, there is the issue of (romantic)
>  love.  Dave and his friend need to seriously explore relationships
>  with other persons.  Dave with non-Jews and his friend, of course,
>  with Jews.
>
>  I believe that they should each seriously spend a year exploring such
>  alternatives.  In particular, following the advice of Susan Page,
>  author of "If I'm So Wonderful, Why Am I Still Single?"  [Bantam
>  Books, $4.95] each should:
>
>  1.  Desire love.
>  2.  Believe that one can find a new love.
>  3.  Make a master plan for increasing the flow of eligible people through 
>      one's life.
>  4.  Continue dating even though some dates are "duds."
>  5.  GO FOR VOLUME.  Schedule as many two hour dates as possible in public
>      places.  Talk to these dates; try to discover the other's values.  Try
>      to anticipate the long-term consequences of a relationship.
>      carefully consider future in-laws.  Marriage results in not only a
>      spouse, but a new set of family members.
>  6.  Be prepared to say "no," and move on when the relationship does not
>      have much of a future.
>  7.  Don't limit oneself to people of a certain "type."
>
>  And finally, put aside how people look and how much money they or
>  their parents have. I know this is a tough one, but if one can do
>  this than one will discover many people one can potentially love and,
>  with God's help, have a joyous marriage.

What kind of silly advice is this?  If you want to tell Mr. Webb and his
Jewish girl friend to just split up and look for partners of their own
respective faiths (or lack thereof), why not have the courage to say so
openly?  Do you think that Mr. Webb will reject your "advice" in that
case, but will be too stupid to notice what you're saying if you cloak
it as a "temporary separation", coupled with advice from a book on
finding a new spouse???

Boy, you must have a low opinion of people...
--
Yigal Arens        "You'd think [Bush] was running for First Lady instead
USC/ISI            of for President."     Bill Clinton, commenting on GOP
arens@isi.edu      attacks on his wife.   LA Times, 8/20.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Tribe descent
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:07:10 GMT

In article <ALLEN.92Oct1150152@golem.ssc.gov> allen@ssc.gov writes:
>                  According to the Mesorah, men need to go through the
>Gemara before being able to really understand and appreciate TaNaCh
>(Torah, Prophets, Writings); whereas women are able to start off with
>TaNaCh directly.
   Not arguing, but where in the Mesorah? 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.discrimination
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Anti-Arab racism on the net
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 2 Oct 92 08:48:39 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish

en = egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Edward G. Nilges)
ss = saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)

en: The Jewish women attacked at the Wailing Wall were attempting
en: to practise their faith in a somehwat fundamentalist manner.

ss: If you are refering to the group of women who attempted a women's
ss: prayer service at the Wailing Wall in direct contravention of the laws
ss: of the State, the Halachic (Jewish legal) authorities, and custom, you
ss: are mistaken.  These women are not fundamentalist unless your use of
ss: fundamentalist is as twisted and incorrect as the use of "impreialism"
ss: you condemn.

The women are not fundamentalists (Edward Nilges seems to have gotten
it backwards) but if this label doesn't apply to their opponents it's
not too far off.  We're not talking about the police coming, reading
them the Code of Jewish Law, and saying that they will have to take
them into custody if they don't desist violating Orach Chaim 107:5
(citation made up at random), we're talking about other people, who
presumably also came to the Wall to pray, physically attacking these
women.

As to the Laws of the State, a suit is pending in the Supreme Court,
the last I heard.  Meanwhile I think they are allowed to pray at the
Wall, but under some restrictions.  As to Halachah, my shul is an
Orthodox shul many of our members pray with Nashot Hakotel.  Given
that we announce their next service every Shabbat before Rosh Chodesh,
they must still be in business.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       New signature will appear "acharai hachagim"
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: Cross-dressing
Reply-To: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 20:34:24 GMT

In article <9210051338.AA07807@helix.nih.gov>, norm@helix.nih.gov writes:
|> Sorry David, I think you must have gotten it backward.  Today all frum Jews
|> consider pants to BE a man's garment and not for women.  You would not find

Sorry to have to disagree, but I do not think this is the case.  According to
a shiur I heard from Rabbi Tendler in YU, the problem with women wearing
pants does *not* have to do with "beged ish".   The parameters of "beged ish"
are determined by what contemporary society considers men's and women's 
clothing - otherwise, frum men today would still have to wear togas!  And today,
society considers pants to be typical clothing for women.  There are even styles
of pants made specifically for women and NOT for men.  Therefore, the concept of
"beged ish" does not apply to women wearing pants per se.

Of course, other, much more complex, issues are involved with women wearing 
pants, such as tzinius (modesty).  
-- 
Elie Rosenfeld      | "He tasks me!  He tasks me and I shall have him!
Bellcore            |  I'll chase him 'round the Moons of Nebir and 'round
Piscataway, N.J.    |  the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's Flames
(908) 699-8800      |  before I give him up!"  - Khan, "STII-The Wrath of Khan"
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:17013 soc.culture.polish:2985
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Y'hi Ratson at the Table
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:34:50 GMT

warren@nysernet.ORG (Warren Burstein) writes:

>Is beer an acceptable substitute for a sheep's head?

I don't quite get the connection, but basically anything can be
substituted.  Or, more precisely, nothing can be substituted, since
the "y'hi ratzon"s can (an possibly should) be recited even without
the pun-inspiring items.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: Hebrew Question
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 13:01:27 +0200

in: <1992Sep25.134758.14591@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) replies:

>In article <1992Sep25.125149.13480@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@ruby.egr.msu.e
>>If the head of the year is Rosh HaShana...
>>and the tourist spot near Haifa in Rosh HaNikra...
>>Why is the head of the month Rosh Chodesh (instead of Rosh HaChodesh)?
>  I'm not afraid to look like an idiot, so I'll take a stab at it.
>
>  Because the complete phrase is "rosh chodesh elul." Similarly,
>  one would say "rosh shanat tashnag."

I  think that  Joel is  correct about  that (just  it is  "sh'nat" not
shanat" in this case).   As a support let me remind  those who pray on
Rosh Hodesh, that in Ya'ale ve'yavo  it says byom rosh HAhodesh hazeh,
as in that place the name of the month is not given.

To all scj:


                        HHHHHHHH      JJJJ  UU    UU
                        HHHHHHHH      JJJJ  UU    UU
                              HH        JJ  UU UU UU
                              HH        JJ  UU UU UU
                              HH        JJ  UU UU UU
                              HH        JJ  UU UU UU
                        HH    HH        JJ  UU UU UU
                        HH    HH  JJJJJJJJ  UUUUUUUU
                        HH    HH  JJJJJJJJ   UUUUUU


                   HHHHHHHH  BBBBBB     III    VV     VV
                   HHHHHHHH  BBBBBB     III    VV    VVV
                         HH      BB     III    VV   VVVV
                         HH      BB     III    VV     VV
                         HH      BB     III    VV     VV
                         HH      BB     III    VV     VV
                   HH    HH      BB     III    VV     VV
                   HH    HH  BBBBBBBB   III    VVVVVVVVV
                   HH    HH  BBBBBBBB   III    VVVVVVVVV


                  GGGGGGGG       JJJJ  UU    UU   TTTTTTT
                  GGGGGGGG       JJJJ  UU    UU   TTTTTTT
                        GG         JJ  UU UU UU   TT   TT
                        GG         JJ  UU UU UU   TT   TT
                      GGGG         JJ  UU UU UU   TT   TT
                     GG GG         JJ  UU UU UU   TT   TT
                    GG  GG         JJ  UU UU UU   TT   TT
                   GG   GG   JJJJJJJJ  UUUUUUUU  TTT   TT
                  GG    GG   JJJJJJJJ   UUUUUU   TTT   TT

                              Michael Shimshoni
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Shul name
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:12:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: appserv.ld11d7INN60e
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
Distribution: world
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin


In article <4OCT92.13483142@meena.cc.uregina.ca>, isilver@meena.cc.uregina.ca
says:
>
>Some names I've liked:
>-      Anshe England (in Toronto)
>-      Holy Blossom (likewise)
>-      The Christchurch Synagogue (its official name, as per
>Goldman's "The History of the Jews in New Zealand". This latter
>building is 111 years old. My father was bar-mitzvah there.
>

My favorite shul name is "Shaarei Zahav" ("Golden Gate")
in San Francisco.

Then of course there's a friend of mine's name for an extremely lax 
Reform synagogue where we used to live: "Our Lady of the Perpetual 
Simchas" 

********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: allen@golem.ssc.gov (Michael Allen)
Subject: Tzom Gedalia
Reply-To: allen@ssc.gov
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX
Distribution: soc.culture.jewish
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:11:37 GMT


Any info (with references) on Gedalia ben Achikom and the politics of
what lead up to his assisination?  I haven't been able to find more
than a couple of sentences here and there.
--
K'tivah v'Chatima Tova!

===================================================
But those who toiled knew nothing of the dreams of 
        Those Who Planned;                         
And the minds who planned the Tower of Babel       
        Cared nothing for the workers who built it.

	-Metropolis
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: alex@opal.idbsu.edu (Alex Feldman)
Subject: Re: Bill Clinton's Jewish Advisors
Organization: Boise State University Math Dept.
Date: 1 Oct 92 07:59:10

>>>>> On Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:03:27 GMT, altman@RIGEL.LCS.MIT.EDU (Arthur Altman) said:

AA> My mother-in-law is visiting us for the Holidays from Austin, TX.  She
AA> says that she has heard that some in Texas are "whispering" about the
AA> fact that Bill Clinton has several prominent advisors who are Jewish.
AA> Presumably there are anti-semites who have seized on this, for whatever
AA> bad purposes.  This is the first I have heard of this, but I live in a
AA> comparatively sheltered part of the country/state/city.  

AA> So, as a reality check: Has anyone else out there on the net heard about
AA> this being an issue in their part of the country?  Does anyone think
AA> that there is enough latent anti-semitism out there that this would
AA> actually matter to the election?

AA> A happy, healthy, and sweet New Year to everyone,

AA> Arthur Altman
AA> altman@abp.lcs.mit.edu

I haven't heard a whisper, and I don't live in a sheltered part of the
country with regard to anti-semitism.

--
	--alex			alex@math.idbsu.edu