HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vos@helix.nih.gov (Peter Vos)
Subject: Questions about Whole Life Insurance from New York Life...
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 03:10:38 GMT

Hello Netters,
 Here are some questions for those savvy in the ways of insurance.
 Recently, my wife and I began to consider the possibility of
 buying life insurance.  We spent several hours with an independent
 agent who was pushing New York Life.
 We had settled on whole life insurance for each of us.  My wife has
 greater earning potential than I do, and my debt burden is nil.  Our
 concerns were 1) to provide money to cover kids college costs (assume
 two-although none exist as yet); 2) to cover any mortgage costs on
 a house (as yet not purchased); and 3) to provide a form of retirement
 income as we are not invested in any pension plans.
 	We discounted term life insurance since we have the
 means to pay the premiums on whole life, and because of the interest
 in providing some source of income for our dotage.
 										  Some questions:
 	Can the premium be changed after the start of the
policy even if I don't change the value of the policy.  How does one
determine the viability of an insurance company through easily 
available information in the the public domain?
	  What is a reasonable internal rate of return?  How
does one calculate internal rate of return?  The agent calculated
about 7%+ over twenty years.  That looked like about 4.3% if the
whole amount had been invested as a lump sum with simple interest.
What good are the quarantees that New York Life will be able
to meet the projected dividend payments?  What happens if they fail
to meet these projected levels?  What good is the guarantee that
I will be able to borrow the equity from this account in the future
without triggering a "taxable event"?
																					 Finally, what two other questions would you be asking an
insurance agent before you signed on the dotted line?
Thanks for any info or pointers or experiences you have to offer.
Peter.

vos@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ross@hsi.com (Michael Ross)
Subject: WSJ: "Many Companies Sell Securities to Bolster Their Balance Sheets"
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford, CT.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:36:34 GMT

A front page article in today's WSJ by this title discusses the cases of
several companies that have contributed to a record $747 billion raised
through stock and bond offerings this year.

It says "(M)any companies have used the proceeds to pay off high-cost dept 
piled up in the 1980's, slashing their interest bills and raising their credit
ratings."

Cited are numerous cases of drops in debt to capital ratio.

O.K.  My questions ... (and pardon if it is only my ignorance that shines
through) ...

	- Doesn't the selling of stocks and bonds imply yet new debt (although
	perhaps less costly ... i.e. dividend or interest payout)?

	- Where is all this money being raised coming from? Are low interest
	rates and some renewed optimism in the stock/bond markets shifting
	funds from somewhere else?

	- If the cost of doing business with lenders was so great (backbreaking
	interest expenses) why is there this surge of new lenders willing to
	incur less risk?


I found the article baffling and encouraging at the same time.

Any explanations to help sort this out would be appreciated.

Thanks!
-- 
Michael Ross                                  ...!uunet!hsi!ross
3M Health Information Systems                   ross@hsi.com
Wallingford, CT   USA
From: long@hal.COM (Long Hu)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Asia Funds?
Date: 11 Nov 1992 16:17:37 -0800
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: bluebird.hal.com
Summary: Looking for no-load Asia funds
Keywords: no-load Asia fund

Dear netters,

I am looking for a no-load mutual fund that invest mainly in Asia. I would
probably want to stay away from funds that invest solely in one Asian
country, and instead want a fund that invests in the greater Asian
community. I would appreciate any feedbacks.

long

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: bentrup@cs.uiuc.edu (John Bentrup)
Subject: Bid / Ask difference 
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:35:05 GMT

What is the significance for a large difference between
the bid and asked price of a stock?  The stock is Fischer
Price (FPP) on the NYSE.  It's spread is on the order of
19 7/8 - 22.  The stocks that I am familiar with on the 
NYSE (I believe) normally differ by .25 - .50 and not $2.

Thanks.

-- 
John Bentrup                                INTERNET: bentrup@CS.UIUC.EDU
Department of Computer Science              BITNET: bentrup%uiucdcs.BITNET
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
1304 W Springfield Ave			  
Urbana, IL 61801  USA
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: Any "long wave theory", "Schumpeter" etc. followers out there?
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:45:10 GMT


I recently have begun studying various "long wave" and Schumpeter texts.
Secondary sources range from the academic to the crack-pot, all seem
intriguing.

One author (referencing several others) makes hesitant attempts to ground
economic, political and social phenomenon in "natural" phenomenon (e.g.
sunspot activity, long-term fertility trends, etc.). This too seems
intriguing.

My personal interest tends more towards the very long term trend analysis,
with an eye to integrating general trends with investing decisions. For
example, investing in Schumpeterian emerging technologies; adjusting
asset allocations sensitive to long-wave phases; etc. These investment
cycles range from 4, 7, 11, 25, to 55 years, the smallest of which 
(4 years) would be considered short-term investing.

Thus far, I am impressed with the empirical data supporting descriptive
theories (vs mathematical theorems) pertaining to "chaotic economic cycles"
(i.e. those sensitive to initial conditions and highly endogenous/recursive).

The margin for error with respect to their predictive capacity ranges from
5 to 10 years. The cycles are not perfect sin waves, and have been shortened
and/or lengthened through gov't and private conscious intervention. The
peaks and troughs have been "artifitially" dampened and raised since 
the "New Deal" era (reducing the extremes and replacing deflationary throughs
with disinflationary troughs).

Numerous safety nets have been put in place through legislation and finance, 
that have brought about this dampening/raising. However, as with any 
endogenous system, these safety nets are not "system neutral". They too are
part of the system and to date have not been "tested" (i.e. stress tested). 

I am interested in hearing what people think might happen in the next 10 to 
fifteen years (thru 2005) with respect to any factors you feel are significant 
(e.g. US yearly deficits, cumulative debt, interest rates, birth rates,
demographics, climate, emerging technologies, world-wide social-political-
economic trends, etc.).

have fun with it!

barry
From: pearson_steven@tandem.com (Steven R. Pearson)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: comment about fidelity short term bonds
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:35:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tandem Computers Inc.,  Cupertino, CA

In article <scott.720997378@phylo>, scott@phylo.life.uiuc.edu (Snooky Fudge) writes:
> 
> Interest rates go up, bond yields go down. 
> Interest rates go down, bond yields go up. 

Close, but no cigar.  "Yields" are more or less the same as "interest rates."
Corrected:

Interest rates go up, PRICES OF OUTSTANDING BONDS go down.
Interest rates go down, PRICES OF OUTSTANDING BONDS go up.

> The longer the term of the bond, the faster its yield fluctuates.

That part is correct, all else being equal (esp. similar bond quality).
Term means REMAINING term (not initial term), and can be complicated
by call provisions.

-steve p.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ssimmons@convex.com (Steve Simmons)
Subject: >>  Fod Lion
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:30:13 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.


> Since I live in California and never heard of Food Lion before the ABC 
> report, all I know is what I saw on the report and what I've read in
> the WSJ. You are closer to the problem, so maybe there is something I 
> missed. That said, here it goes....
>
> Food Lion is accused of the worst possible thing a grocery chain can be
> accused of, knowingly selling tainted food. 
>
> If the allegations are true then Food Lion is dead and the only question is 
> whether anyone goes to prison.
>
> If the allegations are not true then it will take a heroic job of public 
> relations for Food Lion to recover. Unfortunatly Food Lion management
> seems hell bent on providing a case study on "How NOT to Manage a Public
> Relations Crisis".
>
> Of course the nearest Food Lion is about 1500 miles from here, so I have 
> no idea what sort of local public relations they are engaged in to
> deflect these allegations. From out here their response appears 
> pretty pathetic, however.

I drive by a Food Lion every night and there are the same number of 
cars out front as there were before the telecast. My wife and I shopped
there a few weeks ago.  We both kept saying how clean the store was. 
Therefore, they were already doing damage control. Personally, I believe
the allegations to be true; the stories were just too unbelievable.  Prime
Time had to get their facts correct. 

Buying stock is a risk.  The following events can be anticipated...

	- The current management is forced out.  There will be a need for
	  a scapegoat.  The stock will spurt on this news. 
	- There will be lawsuits.  Every greedy person will be seeking 
	  money for wrongful anything.
	- The new management will need to either...
		o try to regain trust through time (HA.. HA.. HA..)
		o liquidate all stores.
		o reopen under another name. 
		o merge with another outfit. 

This is different than the Union Carbide problem.  First, that was an accident.
Maybe, there was sloppy management but there was no intentional betrayal. Also,
it occured on the other side of the world in a specific location.  Most of 
Union Carbide's investors and customers were not affected.  Same thing with
Exxon and the Valdez. 

People's memories are short.   They go where they get the best value.  Maybe,
Food Lion can turn it around.  They've probably had the worst happen to them.

Thank you. 

					Steve Simmons
From: bq276@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Seese)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Ford vs. Discover
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:08:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


This may have already been said (I skipped a few of the Ford vs.
Discover postings), but Discover offers a true tiered rate, as
opposed to a sliding scale.

The rates are 0.25% for the 1st 1,000, 0.50 for 1,000-2,0000, 
0.75 for 2,000-3,000 and 1% above 3,000.

Now, if you charge $3,001, you don't get $30.01 (1% x 3,000).
You get 0.25% x 1,000 plus 0.50% x 1,000 plus 0.75% x 1,000, 
plus 1% x $1, which equals just over $15.  

Still, the fact that they give me ANY money is a bonus (I 
never carry balances).
-- 

Michael Seese
Cleveland, OH (and darned happy to be here)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com (Maurice E. Suhre)
Subject: Re: C-SPAN & 1929 !
Organization: TRW, INC.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:52:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.011635.26341@intrepid.com> gary@intrepid.com (Gary Funck) writes:
>
>Lowering rates has the
>effect of giving new life to debt-ridden, marginal corporations,
>and helped to keep the banking system afloat -- possibly long enough
>to sustain a recovery.  But, as usual, it will be the taxpayer
>that picks up the tab for this action.

It isn't obvious to me how the taxpayer "picks up the tab" for lower
interest rates.

What I really wanted to mention was that I went to a financial seminar
Saturday 11/7.  One of the points mentioned was that a lot of people
have a misconception about the Fed.  The Fed is not there to stimulate
or hold back the economy (even though they do do that).  The Fed is an
"old boys club" owned by the banks and it is there to help ensure the
stability of the banking system.  The low interest rates are helping the
banks improved their balance sheets, as they are making money on an
essentially riskless spread.

The argument was offered that the Fed has delayed jump starting the
economy.  They are waiting for the world economy to get in better
shape.  The Fed couldn't see pumping up the US if there weren't any
buyers overseas.  I was not particularly impressed with this line of
reasoning, to put it mildly, but I'm not nearly enough of a Fed expert
to provide a critique.

More details later.

-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Boycott Colorado
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:00:17 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <8190150@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> sjb@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Stuart Bobb) writes:
|
|> In article <Bx9LG7.983@fc.sde.hp.com> fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz) writes:
|> >By the way, there was an article in today's Denver paper that said
|> >a doctor's organization had already cancelled their Denver convention
|> >because of Amendment 2.  One of the ringleaders of "Colorado for Family
|> >Values", the people responsible for Amendment 2, said this was "the
|> >kind of intimidation the homosexuals like to use."  Ye gods.
| 
|Cristophe writes:
|
|> Ah, yes, Medical Organizations, that well-known tool of the radical
|> homosexual movement.  I wish there was a treatment for radical reality
|> disconnection.
|
|Without making comment on the ammendment itself, soley for the purposes of
|clarifying:  The physicians organization that cancelled their convention in
|Denver was an organization for gay and lesbian physicians.  Is it supposed to
|be a shock or big news that they cancelled?!
|
|Everybody has an agenda.  Everybody seeks to implement their agenda, using
|whatever means they can.  In my opinion, modern political life in America
|does not concern itself with fairness or reasonableness or the greater good.
|It is all about power and about "me" vs "you".  I think that is very
|unfortunate for what remains of representative democracy.
|
|Stuart

Good post.  Today everybody is calling for "MY OWN RIGHTS", but yet
shouldn't we each be advocating for others and for ourselves that we 
BE RESPONSIBLE - not just seeking one's rights.  Look at how we hold
big business accountable (Exxon, Union Carbide) for being irresponsible,
but yet America's people keep clamoring for RIGHTS.  Let's be responsible.
Live above the law.  The law doesn't mandate goodness and kindness toward
others, but it tries to limit how much harm one can inflict or potentially
inflict upon another.

Sincerely,
Richard Pitts

-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
                        -|-  |  -|-
                         |   |   |
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe)
Subject: Re: Indexing Capital Gains for Inflation
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 05:30:17 GMT

cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.134615.11055@samba.oit.unc.edu> jfm@med.unc.edu (John F. Miller) writes:
>>So, don't think of capital gains indexing as special privileges;
>>think of it as minor compensation of taking some unnecessary risk.

>There's no such thing as a risk-free investment, not even T-bills; that's
>why it's an investment.  Secondly, stocks already have compensation for
>taking risk: it's called capital gains.  I don't see any reason to reward
>that risk twice.
>--
>-- Christophe

>"I draw the line at Styrofoam packing kernels, you sick pervert."

Pardon my ignorance, but is interest from a bank account taxed
as income or as a capital gain (or neither?).

Whatever, I think all of these things should be indexed to 
inflation. It just doesn't seem right to me that you should
be taxed on "profits", that are really "losses" when inflation
is taken into account.

-Larry Watanabe
From: capskb@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Keith Brewster)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Amdahl Corp.
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:39:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: constell.1992Nov5.203911.22787
Organization: University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK
Originator: usenet@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu

In article <LH==rt#@engin.umich.edu> jxm@engin.umich.edu (John Murray) writes:
>
>While it's true that the market for mainframes per se is limited, 
>it sems likely that the demand for massive fileservers and other
>sorts of large data storage/retrieval systems will be around for 
>a while. This may be the direction which mainframe technology will
>move. There's also continued demand for the type of high-reliability 
>systems which Amdahl claims to provide - insofar as there's contin-
>uing demand for anything in a recession!

 The preceding sounds more like the niche Pyramid Technology is
 targeting.  One has to decide if the banking and other industries
 will "discover"/accept open Unix systems over black-and-Blue type.

>
>The attractive thing about Amdahl at 8.00/share is that it's below
>book value (which is about 10.00/share, I think). So it might be 
>worth buying - but I wouldn't bet the farm on it, or expect a jump
>in price overnight. 
> 

 IMHO: Book, schmook.  If the company is losing money the book value will
 evaporate.  Besides, I thought someone earlier said book=$8.something

-KB
----------------
Keith Brewster
Neither a computer expert nor a broker nor a spokesman for OU.
capskb@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu
From: awang@sunpix.East.Sun.COM (Angus Wang - Sun NC Development Center)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Concept of selling short.
Date: 5 Nov 1992 21:42:32 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc., Vienna, VA. 
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: candy-apples.east.sun.com

I'm trying to understand the concept & details of selling a stock short,
but have a few questions.  I understand that what you are basically doing
is selling shares that you do not have (usu. it's shares that the broker has)
and promising to supply those shares at a later date, hoping that you
can buy those shares at a lower price.

Questions are :

1. Who/What determines when you have to come up with those shares?  Can
	they be "called" at any time?

2. How does the IRS figure gains for taxing? Do you not get taxed on
	your profit until you have settled (which could be in a
	different tax year)?  Do you get hit with income in the year
	you sell short & then hit with gains in the year you settle?

Thanks

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: irving@Happy-Man.com (Irving_Wolfe)
Subject: Re: Bid / Ask difference 
Bcc: irving
Reply-To: Irving_Wolfe@Happy-Man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:08:19 GMT

In <1992Nov11.214917.11175@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:

>If you say this is the bid/asked spread, where does this information
>come from from an issue traded on the NYSE?

Perhaps he has a quote machine, or had access to one temporarily.
Exchange-listed stocks have bids, offers, and even sizes, and they
are very useful to see when placing orders.  

The newspapers don't show the closing bid and asked prices.  This
isn't too serious, because it is really the changes (and changes in
the size of the bid and offer) during the day that matter.
Although saving space might be an excuse, the newspapers really
fail to show these because they have no clue as to what's useful.
For example, until very recently, when reporting companies'
earnings, if there was a loss, they'd replace the earnings per
share figure with "d" even if the companies had provided the very
useful loss per share figure.  The journalists just didn't
comprehend negative numbers; they hadn't a clue what they were
writing about.

>In article <BxK5yH.C5w@cs.uiuc.edu> bentrup@cs.uiuc.edu (John Bentrup) writes:
>>What is the significance for a large difference between
>>the bid and asked price of a stock?  The stock is Fischer
>>Price (FPP) on the NYSE.  It's spread is on the order of
>>19 7/8 - 22.

There are a few thinly-traded stocks with big spreads even on the
NYSE, but this isn't one of them.  The most likely thing is that
the quote was gotten after the close on the New York Stock
Exchange; it was from some marginal, secondary stock exchange, not
from the primary market.  If you want the NYSE bid and ask, and
your quote machine isn't fancy enough to keep each exchange's data
separate but just has the composite quotes, you can only get it
before the N.Y. market closes.  Right now, fpp is quoted
21.5-21.625, 50x50, on the NYSE.  (The 50x50 is the "size" -- 5,000
shares bid for at 21.5, 5,000 shares offered at 21.625.)

-- 
 Irving_Wolfe@Happy-Man.com      Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x101
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399   fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.   NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20.  Send POSTAL addrs: Solid-Value@Happy-Man.com
From: jmuth@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (John Muth)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Fod Lion
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:40:34 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

In article <1992Nov10.100617.15153@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> cooper@casey.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Bob.Cooper) writes:
>What are peoples thought on the Food Lion ordeal?  There have been may
>times in past history where bad news sent the stock sharply downward for
>a short while only to be followed by steady increase back to earlier
>levels.  Didn't Union Carbide fall into this catagory?

Bob,

Since I live in California and never heard of Food Lion before the ABC 
report, all I know is what I saw on the report and what I've read in
the WSJ. You are closer to the problem, so maybe there is something I 
missed. That said, here it goes....

Food Lion is accused of the worst possible thing a grocery chain can be
accused of, knowingly selling tainted food. 

If the allegations are true then Food Lion is dead and the only question is 
whether anyone goes to prison.

If the allegations are not true then it will take a heroic job of public 
relations for Food Lion to recover. Unfortunatly Food Lion management
seems hell bent on providing a case study on "How NOT to Manage a Public
Relations Crisis".

Of course the nearest Food Lion is about 1500 miles from here, so I have 
no idea what sort of local public relations they are engaged in to
deflect these allegations. From out here their response appears 
pretty pathetic, however.

-John Muth
Newsgroups: misc.invest,misc.invest.real-estate