HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Buying an M1 (was RE: US NAVY GETS RID OF M9'S)
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:42:28 GMT
Organization: who knows


 spf@hoqaa.att.com (Steven P Frysinger) writes...
# 
#Well, you got MY attention.  I've occassionally thought about buying an
#M1 (I'm not sure why, but, well, you know...).  Anyway, what is the "best"
#way to do this, what are the requirements, what's the cost, phone numbers, &c?  
#Great timing!  I was just going to start exploring the M-1 DCM program when
#I noticed this.  If you have more details you could e-mail me, it certainly 
#would be appreciated.

a)provide proof of age and U.S. citizenship. The following items are 
  acceptable (only one of the following is required):
 (1)copy of birth certificate
 (2)copy of voter registration card
 (3)copy of US Dept. of State issued passport
 (4)report of military discharge or separation (DD214)

b)provide proof of current membership in a DCM-enrolled club or membership
  in a state rifle association.

c)furnish proof of highpower rifle markmanship activity.  Only one of the
  below is required.
(1)highpower rifle classification card issued by the NRA
(2)certificate of completion of Small Arms Firing School-Rifle
(3)participation in a formal DCM qualification competition conducted by a
   a DCM-enrolled club showing at least 100 rounds fired in two or more
   competitions
(4)copies of final match bulletins from any NRA registered or approved
   highpower rifle tournaments or DCM approved 'Leg' mathces showing at 
   least 120 ( my comments, I think that this should read 100) rounds fired
   in competitions in two or more matches.
(5)a Temporary Score Record Book, used for NRA registered and approved 
   highpower rifle tournaments providing it contains at least 100 record
   shoots over two or more conventional courses of fire.
(6)proof of Distinguished Rifleman status
(7)certified instructor cards for rifle

Once you have sent the above documents, you'll get some forms from the DCM
asking for finger prints, some personal data that will be checked by the FBI
or other federal security service.  Once these forms are sent in, you'll get
a bill for $165 and THEN you'll get the Garand!  Whew!  ...but it's worth it!


If you have any questions on the above, let me know.
From: skrone@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (stuart.krone)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hearing Protectors - HELP
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:20:57 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <52908@mimsy.umd.edu> jeffs@austlcm.sps.mot.com (jeff stump) writes:
#
#   I wonder if anyone out there has found any smaller or more comfortable
#hearing protectors. The headset types are comfortable except on hot/humid
#days when they are terrible to wear here ( Texas from Mar-Nov ). 
#Also, some rifle shooting is very uncomfortable with headsets on.
#  I have tried *many* of the smaller ear 'plugs ' but, either they do not
#seal good or offer too little protection (db's). Has anyone else had a 
#similar problem ? Any reccomendations ? I have heard that at some gun shows
#there are people who will pour into your ear a set of plugs but, I have 
#yet to see them ? 

I have these all rubber plugs that look like Christmas trees from Silencio.
They are GREAT. about 25 db reduction I think. They are ALL rubber, not the
ones with the metal base. I wear mine under a set of Silencio Magnums.
needless to say .45 sound like a dull thud.
Just a word about Silencio BTW, When I first got mine I broke them doing
something dumb (trying to adjust them too far for my fat head!). I wrote a
letter to Silencio asking to _buy_ a replacement piece for what I broke.
They sent me the piece, a few extra and a handfull of the best earplugs I've ever seen.

I have no relation to them at all but they are great.

#  What is the minimum (in dB) rating one should have for say pistol shooting
#with .22,.357,.45 under an iron roof outdoors ?  Comments ?

Ask an ENT. (Ear Nose Throat specialist). They could probably help with
custom (pour in ) ear plugs but I'd go for Silencios first.
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:34:02 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <52962@mimsy.umd.edu> jvh@nature.berkeley.edu writes:
#
#Forgive me if this question has been asked, but I just got around
#to seeing "Thelma & Louise" and I just don't believe that a bullet
#from a handgun can cause a gasoline truck to explode.  It seems
#to me that the things must be thick enough to repel a handgun
#bullet or they'd be blowing up all the time.  Even were a bullet
#to puncture the tank, would it explode upon puncture?  I know in
#that case, gas would spill and another bullet could spark on something
#maybe, but on contact?  Does anyone know?


A really good look at what happens when a car is shot up is in the
Dillon videotape titled "Machine Gun Magic".  This is a tape that
should be seen by anyone with any interest (positive or negative)
in guns.

The Dillon folks were using tracers as well as conventional ammo;
the car soaked up hundreds of rounds before anything happened.  I
won't tell what happened; you really owe it to yourself to see this
videotape.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Revolver Hammer Shrouds...
Date: 10 Apr 92 02:19:10 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory


In article <52818@mimsy.umd.edu> fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson) writes:
}... On the newer colts and rugers there is a
}hammer block that has to be inserted between the hammer 
}and the firing pin (if the firing pin is on the hammer 
}there is no hammer block) this is done when you pull the 
}trigger. ...

Just a nit:  I'm not familiar with the Colt system, but the Ruger's system
is called a transfer bar.  S&W uses a hammer block safety, wherein a chunk
of metal moves out of the path of the hammer when you pull the trigger.

#From an engineering standpoint I think I prefer the transfer bar system,
since it depends on the _absence_ of something to disable the firing
mechanism.  It seems slightly more likely to fail safe than a system that
depends on the _presence_ of a hammer block.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@soldev.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
From: skrone@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (stuart.krone)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "GLOCK" - A Book Review
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:20:52 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <52977@mimsy.umd.edu> crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby) writes:
#In article <52909@mimsy.umd.edu> you write:
#= 
#=     According to Peter Kasler, amphib. spring cups are restricted sale
#=     items by Glock, although not due to any legal restrictions.
#
#Just as a matter of curiosity, aside from the obvious "because it's there"
#reason, why would one want one?

Clearing clogged pipes. :-) :-)

Actually no reason at all. I just thought it would be neat to
own a gun that functions underwater. I don't know of any _unmodified_ guns
that can do that. The uzis' really weren't unmodified.

#
#And, PLEASE, don't let's start any religious wars.  I *agree* that
#there's no reason why you shouldn't have one.  As I said, I'm just
#curious what practical reason anyone would have for wanting one.
#
Speaking of which, I wonder _why_ they are restricted??

#
#-- 
#Best,
#
#Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
#	  crs@lanl.gov
From: jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shotguns vs. handgus (was Re: .357 Home ...)
Date: 6 Apr 92 12:57:49 GMT
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA

In article <52601@mimsy.umd.edu> bp816@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Krivis) writes:
#Point 2: Why use a handgun for home protection? Shotguns are more
#effective and safer. Shotguns scare the hell out of burglars!

Yes, I do agree that the shotgun is a good defensive weapon, just point
and shot and you will most likely hit the attacker(s).  There are two
disadvantages though:

1. Recoil.  This can be especially bad with women.  If a woman does not
   know how to handle a shotgun properly, she can bruise her chest very
   badly.  This can be very serious.

2. Concealability.  Say you hear a noise and go to investigate with the
   big shotgun in your hand.  A neighbor may see you and call the police
   on you for walking around with a weapon.  If you have a handgun and
   it's a false alarm, it's very easy to sweep the incident under the
   rug and those that are afraid of firearms will not look upon you
   strangely in the future as a vigilante and/or lunatic.  Also, I also
   operate under the premise that maybe the owner may be able to and want
   to carry the handgun concealed outside of the home.  I personally
   want something that I can carry concealed with me if necessary.

I plan on buying a shotgun just for that purpose, I'm thinking of the
new shotgun that is now standard issue for the Border Patrol, but my
first priority is a handgun since I can use it for both security and
personal defense.  I don't know of any security agency in southern
California where its guards can carry shotguns while on duty.

There is one big advantage to shotguns over handguns though that I
should mention.  The only practice one needs with a shotgun is to learn
to manage the recoil.  That's it.  For the most part all you do is point
and shoot.  It doesn't require near as much practice as a handgun or so
I'm told.  But I still would take a shotgun to the range every now and
then to make sure that it is in good working order and keep it
'patterned' properly so I have a good idea how the shot will be
dispersed.
--

     // JCA

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From: megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Recrowning...........
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:55:54 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

#>>>> On 15 Apr 92 14:04:13 GMT, aeporro@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Bob Porro) said:

Bob> How do you chuck the barrel into the lathe if it is still attaced
Bob> to a receiver?  

This is relatively easy.  I will explain in machinist's terms and if
anyone needs layman's terms, E-mail me and we can save bandwidth.
However, explaining what various parts of a lathe are to someone who
has never seen them can be kind of difficult in just words and line
drawings are not very good at it either.

This makes the assumption that you have about a 36" lathe since you
need to get the entire barrel/receiver plus some between the head and
tailstock.  You attach a faceplate to the chuck and chuck up a dead
center with a long enough reach to go in through the bolt hole in the
back of the receiver and securely lodge in the chamfer at the back of
the chamber.  Put the chamber onto this dead center and the muzzle end
of the bore onto a live center in the tailstock.  Attach a steady rest
on the barrel about 2" back from the tailstock.  Then attach a lathe
dog to the receiver or barrel and attach a piece to allow it to be
turned by the faceplate.  Adjust both head and tail stock until you
have no runout at either end.  Adjust up the steady rest so that it
just holds the barrel.  Back the tailstock away from muzzle end and
you now have it available for re-crowning.

The other way is if you have a lathe which has a hole all the way back
through the gearbox from the chuck.  You just insert the barrel from
the backside of the chuck and allow the muzzle to stick out the front
of the chuck.  You should also have collar on the backside of the
headstock which will allow you to remove runout there too.

Bob> Is there another approach where a lathe isn't used for cases when
Bob> it is not practical to remove the barrel from the receiver, i.e.,
Bob> is there a specialized crowning tool that self-centers itself in
Bob> the bore of the barrel?

Not that I know of, but I have not learned everything there is to know
about gunsmithing (far from it).  There may also be other ways I do
not know about.  These are only the ones with I am familiar.

-- 
Dion Hollenbeck       UUCP: {uunet, ucsd, sun}!megatek!hollen
Megatek Corporation  9645 Scranton Rd.  San Diego, Ca.  92121
(619)455-5590x2814
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hearing Protectors - HELP
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:30:41 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.


In article <53005@mimsy.umd.edu> skrone@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (stuart.krone) writes:
##  What is the minimum (in dB) rating one should have for say pistol shooting
##with .22,.357,.45 under an iron roof outdoors ?  Comments ?
#Ask an ENT. (Ear Nose Throat specialist). They could probably help with
#custom (pour in ) ear plugs but I'd go for Silencios first.

Note that "dB" noise reduction ratings are generally for CONTINUOUS
sound, and the reduct of IMPACT noise may be significantly less.
Sonic Ear Valves are an example of a design that attempts to reduce
impact noise more than continuous noise, although I have heard that
they are not adequate for protection from gunshot noise.  Electronic
hearing protectors often provide an alternative implementation of
this notion, some even amplifying continuous low-level noise to aid
hunters etc.
From: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: SIG Sauer P226 vs. P228
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:04:50 GMT



# well, i dont think the P7 is *that* much smaller than the P228.
# i personally don't like the H&K squeeze trigger set-up at all.

It's the most compact efficient 9mm Para I have ever seen (I don't
trust the Grendel and the firestar). If you don't like its mechanism,
it's however a good reason to look for something else. I frequently
noticed that either people "love" the P7 or hate it, but there are
very few people right in the middle.

# also, i believe that in the M9 testing they were unreliable, although every
# person i know that has owned one says they have never had a problem, with
# the exception of an occasional jam.

The original name of the HK P7 was: "*POLIZEI* Sebstblade Pistole" (Police
automatic pistol). This gun had never been designed for military use. It 
has been designed for criminal and antiterrorist police departments. So,
it's quite understandable that the US army didn't like it. I fact I wonder
why HK tried to get this contract at all. This also explain that policemen
and people like this gun a lot for their own self defense.

# if i need concealment, i use my Walther PPK/S.

That's a very good choice.

# did you ever get the info from Trijicon about outting night-sights
# on your P7?

No, In fact, I have been extrememly busy and couldn't take time to
write to them. I have a bit more time now, so, I'll ask them one of
these days.


Emmanuel Baechler
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "GLOCK" - A Book Review
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:31:14 GMT
Organization: Computing Center, North Carolina State University

In article <52854@mimsy.umd.edu> skrone@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (stuart.krone) writes:
#In article <52804@mimsy.umd.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
##
##15 Accessories and Special Stuff [factory and third party items,
##    including the much discussed "Amphibious Firing-Pin Spring Cups"
##    which allow the Model 17 (only) to be fired underwater.  The
#
#Are these available to the gneral public from any source?

  These are for military/police only.

#Did these look easy to manufacture yoursef?

  Yes, they look in the picture very much like the standard
cups with some scallops cut out of the flanges to allow water
to flow through.

  By the way, they only tested the firing to a depth of 28"
(if memory serves) and don't warrant firing any deeper than
that.  They do make a fuss about the possibility of ear 
damage.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .22 LR Conversion Kits for AR-15
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:05:01 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

There is a .22LR conversion kit, it replaces the bolt/carrier
assy. They work fairly well, we were using them to qualify with
at the indoor armoury range for my unit. They consist of two
pieces the bolt/carrier/chamber assy and a magazine insert
They go in the 20 round mag and the best way to keep feeding
problems to a minimum is to screw (from bottom of mag) the
insert in more or less permanently. The chamber insert is
somewhat fragile so take your time when inserting it, that
way you wont get any "dings" as it is sliding in. No you 
will not have to change any springs (in the stock) and the
gas port will get somewhat dirty, the barrel will also lead
up some, just fire 1 or 2 .223 rds through and it will clean
up.
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I DONT CARE IF I SOUND CONFUSED, I KNOW WHAT I MEAN !!!
From: dbruce@athena.mit.edu (David M Bruce)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: PEN GUN
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:23:31 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <53055@mimsy.umd.edu> sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Terminator) writes:
#In article <53034@mimsy.umd.edu> dbruce@athena.mit.edu (David M Bruce) writes:
##In article <53004@mimsy.umd.edu> sybok@m4-035-1.MIT.EDU (The Terminator) writes:
###Where could I get a pen gun?
##
##Nowhere, they're illegal (at least in MA).
#
#I'm intimately familiar with Massachusetts law regarding firearms.  Silencers
#are prohibited, machine guns are heavily restricted, and handguns are illegal
#to purchase without a license to carry.  What chapter and section number
#of Massachusetts General Law prohibits the purchase or possession of 
#pen guns?
#
#
I don't have my law book handy, but I believe it's thrown in with the 
possesion of a dangerous weapon section that makes things like dirk
knives, nunchucks, sword canes, brass knuckles, ect. illegal to possess.
I'll check on it.

Dave Bruce
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm Clip prices?
Date: 10 Apr 92 02:19:09 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory


In article <52608@mimsy.umd.edu> bourman@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bob Bourman) writes:

}What's up ? Are these non-brand clips as good? Has anyone had
}experience with off the wall clips?

I've got two RamLine magazines for my SIG P226.  So far they've both been
as reliable as the factory magazines -- i.e.:  No problems at all.  I paid
$18 for one and $25 for the second.  They hold 18 rounds in the same
package as the factory 15 rounders.

Just another data point.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@soldev.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
From: clochmul@nrambr.chem.duke.edu (Charles H. Lochmueller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: BATF APPROVED Hellfire?
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:20:38 GMT

BATF Approved doesn't mean that BATF approves of installation on anything or
use by anyone. Jonathan Ciener's silencers are BATF approved and if you do
the paperwork, get approvals and pay for the $200 tax stamp, you can have
one. None of the paperwork I have seen with Hellfire implies BATF considers
an AR-15 so equipped to be approved in anyone's hands. 

Does anyone know for sure?

CHL
From: emba-news.uvm.edu!bashiti@kira.UVM.EDU (Abbas J Bashiti)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: polar bear
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:30:57 GMT
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility

#From article <52857@mimsy.umd.edu>, by glock@glock.chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto (BACL)):
# Since someone said that a polar bear can be taken down with a .357 magnum, I 
# put in another vote for the Glock 10mm.  The Glock can take ANYTHING you can 
# buy or handload.  And I mean ANYTHING.  I talked to a police officer who 
# handloaded a round so hot that flame shot through the trigger slot, and the 
# gun cycled it fine.  The variety in loads is good; the heaviest hollowpoint 
# is 200gr moving at 1100fps, while the real penetrator is a 155gr 1400+ round 
# made by Hornady (come to think of it, the 200gr is also by Hornady).  I own 
# one of these Glocks, and it is too sweet.  The gun can reliably take down 
# deer, boar, and black bear.  It holds 15+1 rounds, and I do not doubt that 
# someone (if not Glock) will come out with a +2 magazine butt.  My personal 
# recommendation would be to buy a box or two of HydraShoks, Silvertips, or 
# Starfires, pull the bullets, and load them to about 1400fps (all of these 
# rounds have been emasculated to meet the FBI criteria; fine for use against 
# people, not fine against bears).  Bullet pulling is easy, and the Glock can 
# handle the hot rounds.  I'd be interested in knowing how bad the kick is...
# 
# [MODERATOR:  Don't try this at home without an adult, kids ....]
# 

      Not to mention the fact that anyone silly enough to try shooting a bear
with a JHP deserves what they get (stomped on).  If you're going to shoot a 
bear, nothing less then a good FMJ or solid will do.  I could see a 10mm
200 gr. FMJ as a possibly useful round for this purpose, but certainly
not the best choice.  If you want to keep the costs as low as possible get
a good S&W 629, or a Ruger Super Redhawk, and load some 300gr bullets as
fast as the manuals say.  You'll get excellent penetration, and hopefully
put the bear down.  All this assuming you MUST use a handgun.  Nobody would use
a handgun unless they had to...

later,
AJ
From: jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:43:46 GMT
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA

In article <52962@mimsy.umd.edu> jvh@nature.berkeley.edu writes:
#Forgive me if this question has been asked, but I just got around
#to seeing "Thelma & Louise" and I just don't believe that a bullet
#from a handgun can cause a gasoline truck to explode.  It seems
#to me that the things must be thick enough to repel a handgun
#bullet or they'd be blowing up all the time.  Even were a bullet
#to puncture the tank, would it explode upon puncture?  I know in
#that case, gas would spill and another bullet could spark on something
#maybe, but on contact?  Does anyone know?

It just takes one spark to ignite gasoline.  So yes, it is possible, but
highly unlikely with only one shot.  What will never happen is a bullet
igniting diesel.  Diesel ignites under compression, not a spark.
--

     // JCA

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