HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Mail congestion (1)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 14:47:35 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

$undigest -s="Mail congestion (1)" [.new_news]cmpd6259.mss

Date:         Mon, 07 Sep 1992 05:54:06 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep07.055406.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Mail congestion (1)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

My guest account at the University of Louisville has been suffering Mail
Congestion recently since the system installed a new Vax 6400.  In fact I'm not
even sure the digests since Sat, 05 Sep 1992 (6.257) have gotten through.  I've
received no errors, but also, I've received only a few MBU-L messages.

I'm trying to track down the problem and have left mail for one of the systems
folks I know whose been very helpful in the past--although I'd imagine with
this major upgrade he's inundated with work now.

I send this message (from C&CD 6.259) to tell readers that if they did not
receive issues 6.256 - 6.258, that the messages are probably lost in the
electricity.  If you do not receive this message, then don't worry--what you
don't know about electricity can't shock you.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology

------------------------------
$deassign sys$output
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) GALLUA why spell it that way? (12)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:14:21 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date:         Wed, 09 Sep 1992 19:59:30 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep09.195930.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      GALLUA why spell it that way? (12)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Trent Batson <TWBATSON@GALLUA.BITNET> in message
<01GOL4Y2V48G9TCNO5@ulkyvx.bitnet> responding to queries about his address
writes

>"GALLUA" stands for Gallaudet University VAX A (what else?).

>Why the computer folks here couldn't see the kind of confusion everyone
>here is commenting on (between the AU in Gallaudet and the UA in Gallua)
>is beyond me;

I believe that the original Bitnet setup imposed a six-character limit on site
names--hence GALLUA, GALLUB, ULKYVX, UCBVAX, etc. The old PDPs had
six-character file names, and site names are really just another file in the
stream.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology


*************************************
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.fortran
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.fortran,comp.lang.misc,comp.arch,sci.math,misc.education
Subject: Re: Preparation for programming
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:23:12 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <ART.92Sep7143834@world.std.com> art@world.std.com (Al Thompson) writes:
>In article <Bu5qxv.Gn0@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

>   In article <1992Sep04.222529.29814@digibd.com> rhealey@dellr4.digibd.com (Rob Healey) writes:
>   >In article <BtwJGC.1F1@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:

>   >	Data gathering skills, observation skills, statistical analysis
>   >	of data taken skills. All needed in many programming areas
>   >	where you are controlling or monitoring something. How do you
>   >	construct a test to see if your code handles all inputs with
>   >	proper outputs? Experience in labs can help with this skill even
>   >	though on the surface it seems like a stretch.

>   Experience may or may not help.  Experience with routine problems is of
>   limited utility, and that is what one gets in undergraduate lab science
>   courses.  Much of the lab experience would be just as effective if it
>   were videotaped.

>Now just a darned minute there!  I have a Ph.D. in biophysics and I can >categorically state the opposite.  My undergraduate chemistry, biology
>and physics labs equipped with me a set of techniques and skills that I
>have used throughout my career.

			.......................

>               And so on.  Sorry, there is no way you can be an effective
>lab scientist without that hands on experience.  Of course I haven't even
>mentioned the safety issues...labs are some of the more dangerous places
>you can hang out.

There is no question that some lab experiences are valuable, and could not
be videotaped, FOR SCIENTISTS WORKING IN LABS.  But the question is about
the value to programmers who are assisting those scientists.

Even here, there are the analog of laboratory techniques, like getting 
experience with the types of problems one will encounter in numerical
procedures.  Different people will need different amounts of practice.
One size does not fit all.  

Now it might be useful for a computer programmer to deal with laboratory
results, which may even be collected by others.  And good videotaped sessions
can be even more instructive than the same stuff gathered by oneself.  One
does not learn more about subtle color changes when looking at them live 
than when looking at them on videotape, which can be replayed.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Subject: Re: Preparation for programming
Followup-To: comp.edu
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
	<1992Sep04.222529.29814@digibd.com> <Bu5qxv.Gn0@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:19:05 GMT


This thread has nothing to do with computer architecture. Take all the
bitching and whining about how incompetent everyone else is somewhere
else please.

--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.misc
From: lezz@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Lezz Giles)
Subject: Re: Programmers
Reply-To: lezz@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Lezz Giles)
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, MA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:22:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.043815.4175@linus.mitre.org>, crawford@church.mitre.org (Randy Crawford) writes:
|>In article <BuBBoJ.un@rice.edu> sabry@rice.edu (Amr Sabry) writes:
|>>
|>>Based on courses here at Rice University, here is a minimum list of
|>>*concepts* that a real programmer should know:
|>

[lots deleted including some responses adding things like OS and database
 to the list...]

I think the original post and the followups highlight one crucial thing -
there is a huge difference between a *programmer* and a *software engineer*,
and from reading other posts in this and other groups there is also a
third class - a *computer scientist*.  Each group has strengths and
weaknesses and each group is different, although very roughly a programmer
has the least amount of theoretical knowledge and the most practical
low-level knowledge, the software engineer has the broadest experience
covering practical and theoretical aspects, and the computer scientist
has the deepest theoretical knowledge.

Following this further, if you start as a programmer then the original
list seems reasonable (with maybe a few omissions) for a basic reasonably
proficient programmer.  It is nowhere near a complete list for a
software engineer and there is almost nothing on it for a computer scientist
(for example, a computer scientist isn't concerned with "parsing" - but
he knows about grammars).

A lot of the flames and other articles here (and in other groups) stem
from the confusion of "programmer", "software engineer" and "computer
scientist", at least IMHO :-)

Lezz Giles
Xref: sparky comp.edu:1559 soc.college:3788
From: mbmarlow@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Physics/CSE )
Newsgroups: comp.edu,soc.college
Subject: Re: Scientists as Programmers (was Re: Small Language Wanted)
Date: 6 Sep 92 20:30:11 GMT
Followup-To: comp.edu
Organization: University of California, San Diego


	It would have been a monstrous crime for me to pass up
commenting on this debate.   Let me recount my experience:
When I came to UCSD in Fall 1990 I expected to major in physics.
I had been enraptured and drawn into the field of physics by
the combination of labs and lectures that my high school physics
professor had given.   However, When I started the physics sequence
at UCSD, I quickly became bored.....The two quarters in the physics
sequence for physics majors were entirely lecture..with the
professors spending all their time deriving one equation from 
another on the board without relating it to the real world or
performing one lab.                        
	Computer Science offered soemthing different though.  In
each lower division class I took, I was offered a challenge of 
one form or another...via writing this program or that program.
Computer science drew me away from physics during my sophomore year
because it was less competitive, was more exciting, and because I 
could get  my hands on it.  Physics professors should realize that 
most of the students who start the major were drawn into it because
of their fascination wiht how things work, and writing equations on
the board for hour and hours is all find and dandy but relate it 
to things the student experiences.  I think the optimum physics
class would combine lecture and lab..doing both concurently.
	However, I have realized that CS, on its own is a dead end.
The field changes too rapidly and their is no security.  So I've
decided to double major, I will be going after a B.S in Physics and
a B.A in computer science.  I have allready taken Calculus,
differential equations, linear algebra, vector algebra along with
classes in C, Pascal, Systems Programming, and Numerical Methods(
where I learned fortran) and have secured a job combininb math with
CS.
	In any case, I do not think there is that much difference
between physcists and Computer Scientists.  Both are trying to
understand different systems...how things work.  The computer
science is just a more applied approach with results obtained
faster.  I don't know if this little story helps, but I had to put
in my 2 cents on the subject.

       

s
-- 
/**************************************************************************
*'The Moving Finger writes, and having writ, Moves on: Nor all your Piety
* nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a line, Nor all your tears wash
* out a Word of  it.' -Omar Khayyam, The Ruba'iyat
Xref: sparky comp.edu:1645 comp.ai.edu:413 sci.edu:987 comp.multimedia:2708 misc.education:3360
From: starta@tosh.UUCP (John Starta)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.ai.edu,sci.edu,comp.multimedia,misc.education
Subject: Re:    Computer Based Education : Journal List
Date: 13 Sep 92 14:57:26 GMT
Reply-To: tosh!starta@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (John Starta)

cavrak@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Steve Cavrak) writes:

> A bit further out there are several BITNET lists that focus on these
> issues
> 
> CosnDisc	- Coallition of School Networking 
> CSAC-L		- Computing Strategies Across the Curriculum
> NewEdu-L	- New Paradigms in Education List
> 
> If my memory serves me right, CosnDisc is at BITNIC, CSAC-L is at UVMVM,
> and NewEdu-L is at WVUVMD.

NEWEDU-L is at USCVM.

john

-- 
John Starta                                  tosh!starta@enuucp.eas.asu.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Does IP fragment broad/multicasts
Date: 11 Sep 1992 22:58:11 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com

In article <1992Sep11.205542.24508@noao.edu> rstevens@noao.edu (W. Richard Stevens) writes:
>>We've been having an argument here concerning whether or not IP
>>fragments broadcast and multicast packets.
>
>All the BSD kernel code that I've seen refuses to fragment a broadcast
>packet.  You get EMSGSIZE instead.  I don't know about multicasting.

I don't think there's anything in the IP specification that requires that
fragmentation of broadcasts be refused.  However, neither is there anything
that requires that an IP implementation be able to fragment (they *are*
required to be able to reassemble).  So, an implementation may refuse to
send a datagram larger than the interface MTU for any reason
(non-implementation of fragmentation, destination address, configuration
options, phase of moon, etc.).

-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Broadcasting and Subnets
From: graeme@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz ( Graeme Moffat)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 05:20:37 GMT
 <1992Sep3.090735.3657@arizona.edu> <186505INN7ei@early-bird.think.com>
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:

>One issue that's not raised in that section is the situation when multiple
>IP subnets are on the same link.  The choice between limited broadcasts and
>subnet broadcasts affects which group of machines will receive the
>broadcasts, and may affect the behavior of the protocols you use.

What I have observed in this situation (multiple subnets on same physical
cable) is that *many* hosts don't recognise x.y.z.255 as a broadcast on
subnet x.y.z when they are in subnet x.y.w, and respond by resending the
packet to MAC address 00FFBAD1DEAD, and an ICMP redirect to the original
sender! Lovely.

-- 
Graeme Moffat                g.moffat@aukuni.ac.nz \ Time wastes us all, 
Computer Aided Design Centre,  Fax: +64-9-366-0702 /  our bodies & our wits
School of Engineering,    Ph: +64-9-737-999 x8384 /  But we waste time,
University of Auckland, Private Bag, Auckland, NZ \   so time & we are quits
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: weber@world.std.com (Bob Weber)
Subject: Routing to disconnected subnets
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 00:14:20 GMT


Consider the following situation that might occur within a firm's 
enterprise wide internet.

subnets<->Router<->Bridged backbone network<->Router<->subnets

The bridged backbone network has IP addresses within a flat, 
unsubnetted Class B address space. The  other routers and their 
associated networks have IP addresses within a single subnetted 
Class B address space.

Does OSPF and/or IGRP support disconnected subnets of the 
same Class B in this fashion?  Can this work under any 
circumstances? If
not, what are the alternatives, going to lots of Class C address 
around the edges?
 
Thanks
Bob Weber
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Weber                       Voice: 617/570-0791 
Northeast Consulting Resources     Fax:   617/523-0150 
85 Devonshire Street, 4th floor
From: Thomas.Tornblom@nexus.comm.se (Thomas Tornblom)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Using TCP on TLI, how to get own IP address?
Date: 10 Sep 92 08:49:28 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Communicator Nexus AB


How do I get my own IP address of a TCP over TLI connection? I've RTFM
but can't find anything relevant. The portnumber can be returned from
t_bind() and the remote IP address and portnumber with t_listen().

Thomas
--
Real life:      Thomas Tornblom           Email:  Thomas.Tornblom@nexus.comm.se
Snail mail:     Communicator Nexus AB     Phone:  +46 18 171814
                Box 857                   Fax:    +46 18 696516
                S - 751 08 Uppsala, Sweden
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: tengi@princeton.edu (Christopher Tengi)
Subject: Re: looking for tn3270d
Originator: news@nimaster
Keywords: telnet, tn3270
Organization: Princeton University - CIT
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:44:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.133456.21335@mmm.serc.3m.com>, ccg@tcdsp1.mmm.com ("Charles Ganzhorn") writes:
|> In article <1992Sep3.212029.28661@Princeton.EDU>, tengi@princeton.edu (Christopher Tengi) writes:
|> |> I am looking for a tn3270 daemon so that folks around here can telnet
|> |> from our VM system to a unix system, and be able to do things in a
|> |> full screen mode.  

[text deleted]

|> 
|> McData, Open Connect Systems, IBM, and Interlink all make TCP/IP
|> products for IBM mainframes.  Although as of last year, Interlink only
|> had a MVS product.
|> 
|> These products implement a telnet server (you don't need anything
|> particularly special to receive tn3270 connections if the CLIENT is
|> tn3270.) and a telnet client.
|> 

Thanks for the info, but I don't need code to run on the VM side.
What I need is a way to make the UNIX system behave as thought it were
a VM system (ie as though it had the FAL or equiv. telnetd running),
for "pass thru" telnet purposes, and also for full screen programs
running on the UNIX box.  I realize that alot of work would be
involved, and was hoping that somebody might have already walked down
this path.  If not, my management may or may not (probably not) decide
that it is a worthwhile way to allocate my time.


==========----------==========---------+---------==========----------==========

	UUCP:	  ...princeton!tengi		VOICEnet: 609-258-6799
	INTERNET: tengi@princeton.edu		FAX:      609-258-3943
	BITNET:	  TENGI@PUCC
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: ljuno@zeus.bram.cdx.mot.com (Lance Juno)
Subject: FAQ - where ?
Keywords: FAQ
Reply-To: ljuno@zeus.bram.cdx.mot.com (Lance Juno)
Organization: Motorola Codex, Mississauga, Ontario
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:54:39 GMT

Can someone email me the location of the FAQ for this group ?

Thanks.


--
[ Lance Juno                              |  Motorola Codex                  ]
[ Internet: ljuno@dnbf01.bram.cdx.mot.com |  400 Matheson Blvd. West,        ]
[ Phone:        +1 416 507 7200           |  Mississauga, Ontario   L5R 3M1  ]
[ Fax:          +1 416 507 7236           |  Canada                          ]
Xref: sparky comp.protocols.tcp-ip:4378 comp.protocols.misc:688 comp.protocols.iso:1120
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.protocols.misc,comp.protocols.iso
Subject: Re: Why sequence number on bytes instead of packets?
Date: 10 Sep 1992 21:09:16 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com

In article <STEINAR.HAUG.92Sep10201931@delab.sintef.no> Steinar.Haug@delab.sintef.no (Steinar Haug) writes:
>I have sort of grown up with TCP/IP, and I feel comfortable with the notion
>of having sequence numbers on bytes, instead of on packets. I have always
>assumed this was to make the fragmentation/reassembly process easier. 

Fragmentation/reassembly takes place in IP, but sequence numbers are in
TCP, so they don't have anything to do with each other.

>What are the arguments for sequence numbers on bytes instead of packets,
>given that the protocol in question will *not* have fragmentation?

When building streams out of datagrams, using byte-oriented sequence
numbers means that you don't have to retransmit exactly the same packet.
You can buffer up packets waiting to be retransmitted, and retransmit them
as a whole rather than in the original separate packets.  This reduces the
number of packets that have to be sent during retransmission, although it
may increase the total amount of retransmitted data.
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: stewart@tweety.cis.udel.edu (John Stewart)
Subject: Re: Is there a Internet distance measure?
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 15:29:26 GMT

In article <dank.715818516@blacks> dank@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Daniel R. Kegel) writes:
>I'm looking for an automatic way to select the 'nearest' host from a list,
>
>Anyone know how to do this?

There is a utility called "traceroute" that (among other things) counts the
number of hops between your site and the destination.

Good luck.

/jws
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: jhfreeman@iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu (James H Freeman)
Subject: 10base-T Networking, How can I tell if existing wiring works?
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 21:55:40 GMT
Organization: International HP Workstation users' group (InterWorks)

We are planning on converting a lab from serial connections to 10baseT.
Instead of replacing the wire, we would like to try to use the existing wire.
It was installed 3 years ago, but I do not know how twisted it is.  The 
building is going to be remodeled in 1 year, so we want to limits costs.

It is a small project: 8 connections that run on 2 pair wire, put RJ45's
on each end & connect to hub.  Each run is ~50 meters, we just got a 
Microtest pair scanner to help with the testing.

What things will I have to look out for & what tips does the gurus on
the net have on installation?

Hints I have heard of & are planning to implement:
	Replace 66 blocks with 110 or Krone.
	Twist the ends of the wires all the way to the blocks.
	Use RJ45's


Lastly, Is this the correct pinout for 2 pair 10base-T on both ends?

Diagram of RJ45 socket
>   1      8
> +----------+          Pin  Function
> | |||||||| |           1   Transmit data +
> | |||||||| |           2   Transmit data -
> |          |           3   Receive data +
> +-+      +-+           6   Receive data -
>   +-+  +-+
>     +--+        (Taken from the AT&T AUI adapter installation manual)


Thanks in advance.
Bruce Cantrall

PS. My IEEE spec book on 10baseT is coming in the mail soon.  This may answer
some of the questions.

------\   Bruce Cantrall, Vax & Apollo System Manager
------/   Cornell College Academic Computing 
Mail      600 First St, Mount Vernon, IA 52314 U.S.A.
Telephone 319.895.4414  Internet:  Bruce@Cornell-Iowa.edu
From: antonis@helios.ntua.gr (Antonis Kyriazis)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: OSPF question
Date: 10 Sep 92 09:21:49 GMT
Organization: INTRACOM sa


Hi

I'm trying to plan an OSPF configuration for 3 company's buildings:

+---------------+                  +---------------+
|               |     2 Mbps       |               |
|  building B   |------------------|  building A   |
|  router       |                  |  router       |
+---------------+                  +---------------+
        |
        |
        | 2 Mbps
        |
+---------------+       This will be the whole autonomous system
|               |       and obviously the buildings B, A and D
|  building D   |       will represent three different areas.
|  router       |       The questions are: Should I define a
+---------------+       (virtual?) backbone?
                        Routers D and A have to be ABR or just
                        DR?

Notice that D and A are equipped with a LAN and a WAN interface
and B with 4 WANs and 4 LANS, that means B might act as an ASBR
and as an internal router at the same time.

thanks
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|     Antonis Kyriazis                                              |
| Networks & Communications       e-mail: antonis@intranet.gr       |
| INTRACOM sa                                                       |
| 19.5 km Marcopoulo Ave.          fax:   +30-1- 66 44 379          |
| Peania 190 02                           +30-1- 66 43 718          |
| GREECE                          phone:  +30-1- 66 44 961-5        |
|                                         +30-1- 88 43 715          |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.dcom.isdn