HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ledzep@wam.umd.edu (John Henry Bonham)
Subject: Re: Stage Combat
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:50:35 GMT

 Oh I don't know. We are currently doing Hamlet at the University of Maryland, and we have a great fight director. 

First of all call around about stage weapon, and get a good fight director.
He can tell you probably where to get the weapons.. Just remember the only weapons that need to be fought with should be good for stage combat the rest can be 
stage props....

Just check around. Ask your professors etc, I'm sure you can find something 
at that place! (Wish I had gone :))

But I'll be there in a few years for my grad work!


Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: jaemicv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Mike Jaeger)
Subject: Stage Combat
Followup-To: alt.stagecraft
Organization: Public Macs, Academic Computing, Yale University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:46:42 GMT

Help!  I'm directing a production of Shakespeare's <Henry IV, Part I> at
Yale, and am looking for a way to build convincing broadswords (the show is
period) to be used in the battle scenes in Act V.  I've been told that
renting a single broadsword can cost upwards of $100, and we need 8-10,
which puts you at a figure beyond our props budget (which isn't small, but
isn't that huge either).  There's a informal fencing society on campus,
which builds swords with a fiberglass core and covers them with foam, but I
can't imagine those look or sound at all realistic.

Any suggestions on how to modify those types of swords to make them more
realistic or how to build swords in a more realistic way would be greatly
appreciated - thanks!

- Mike Jaeger (jaemicv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu OR jaeger@minerva.cis.yale.edu)
Xref: sparky alt.stagecraft:398 rec.arts.theatre:4025
From: jaemicv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Mike Jaeger)
Subject: Henry IV period
Followup-To: alt.stagecraft
Organization: Public Macs, Academic Computing, Yale University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:45:24 GMT

Thanks for all the responses.  To answer the major question: I'm doing it
in the actual historical period when the events took place: England, 1402
or so.  Basically, as faithful as possible.  I would have to agree that a
soundtrack would be really difficult to do well... we may have to go with
the wooden swords with metallic paint idea, but since everything else in
the show is real and period (dress, armor, etc.), the artificiality of the
swords would be kind of obvious.  Quite a dilemma - I'm still open to
suggestions.

Thanks again in advance - 

Mike Jaeger
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: pinette@fraser.sfu.ca (Gandolf the 23rd)
Subject: Re: Stage Combat
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:05:53 GMT

You could always build them out of wood. (*cringe*) I have done this,
but it does not sound real.  Of course if you do this, better make like
40 of them, cause they break real easily. :-)
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: jim@IMD.Sterling.COM (Jim Nicholsen)
Subject: re: stage combat
Organization: Sterling Software
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:40:36 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: 9db89b819d3b60ef4f2bab0c76029db3

with regard to finding period broadswords et al.

See if there is a chapter of the Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
in your area. If so, there should be a member that can provide you with
a wealth of information on the construction of such implements, also
costuming, and period musical instruments.

My daughter attended a few gatherings of the chapter in our area. Despite
their name, and the image they project when they hold mock jousts, they
are quite serious about keeping history alive. Those involved with period
combat were quite knowledgable about making authentic weapons.

On the other hand I would second the nomination for letting the audience
imagine the weapons. If the props call attention to themselves then they
have stolen that attention from the story you are trying to tell.

jim nicholsen
jim@imd.sterling.com


Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: kyraan@bach.udel.edu (Stephen Ch Litterst)
Subject: Re: Stage Combat
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:55:19 GMT

In article <jaemicv-270193153637@morse-college-kstar-node.net.yale.edu> jaemicv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Mike Jaeger) writes:
>Help!  I'm directing a production of Shakespeare's <Henry IV, Part I> at
>Yale, and am looking for a way to build convincing broadswords (the show is
>period) to be used in the battle scenes in Act V.  I've been told that
>renting a single broadsword can cost upwards of $100, and we need 8-10,
>which puts you at a figure beyond our props budget (which isn't small, but
>isn't that huge either).  There's a informal fencing society on campus,
>which builds swords with a fiberglass core and covers them with foam, but I
>can't imagine those look or sound at all realistic.
>
>Any suggestions on how to modify those types of swords to make them more
>realistic or how to build swords in a more realistic way would be greatly
>appreciated - thanks!
>
>- Mike Jaeger (jaemicv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu OR jaeger@minerva.cis.yale.edu)

One of the directors here has a favorite effect that he loves to share with his
Intro to Theatre and Drama classes...   He saw a production (it may have been
Henry IV) in which the swordfights were pantomimed to sound effects of fighting.
Apparently it was so convinving that when it reached the climax when the hero
stabbed another actor (who was lying on the ground) and twisted the sword the
entire audience cringed.
	Now, your actors may not be trained in pantomime, or your director 
may not like the idea, but if there is enough chaos on stage, audio support
can add more realistic sounds, and the chaos will conceal the fact that
the sword blows don't match up to the sounds.

					Steve


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| "Life is far too brief , Existence is  |
| Stephen C. Litterst           |  meaningless, and the Universe has no  |
| kyraan@bach.udel.edu           \ purpose. That's the way it is, folks."|
|_litterst@freezer.cns.udel.edu___\_________ -Allan Dean Foster__________|
From: 90sra@eng.cam.ac.uk (S.R. Atkins)
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
Subject: Re: '60's Oil Slide F/X
Date: 25 Jan 93 12:59:30 GMT
Organization: cam.eng

kenyon@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:

>I'm currently working on a production of "As You Like It", set in the mid
>1960's, and am trying to create/duplicate the old oil-slide effect.  
>The effect will be rear-projected in an custom-made R.P. Screen of 4-mil
>plastic.  The distance of the projector from the screen is not an issue; I 
>have up to 50 feet of available space, if it's needed.  If anyone has any 
>ideas about how to create/duplicate this effect, I would be most grateful.

>William Kenyon
You can hire effects projectors to do exactly this - off the top of my head
a 250 watt Solar250 with oil wheel is about 35 UK pounds a week to hire - 
but it's a long time since I hired one so don't take my word for it.

They also come in larger sizes - as you have a long throw available it's
probably more effective to use a single higher power projector than several
small ones. These things are really a disco effect but any decent theatrical
hire company should be able to supply them.

If you hire one, go in person to choose the oil wheel you want - wheels with
a lot of blue/green/purple are much more effective than the yellow wheels.

Steve (90sra@eng.cam.ac.uk  sra@cxa.dl.ac.uk)
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: kenyon@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: Brick Wall
Reply-To: kenyon@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:39:17 GMT

Derek - I would suggest that you build a flat, or set piece, that is as 
sturdy as you need it to be, and then face it with vacu-form brick.  The
vacu-form sheets are kind of pricey, but very quick to apply, and very light.
Then, the piece only needs to be as heavy as your situation requires.
The brick must be painted very well, to avoid looking cheesy, but if it's
done right, it will be fantastic.  You can also save the sheets of plastic
at strike, for next time.
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
Subject: Summer job
From: jmazner@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:04:34 EST
Organization: Wesleyan University

I'm looking for a good summer job as a techie somewhere in the San Francisco
Bay area.  Any suggestions?  E-mail me at JMAZNER@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU on
internet.
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: martin@kins.demon.co.uk ("Martin C. Atkins")
Subject: Thorn PM60 Lighting Desk: Service Manual wanted!
Reply-To: martin@kins.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: Himself
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:56:38 +0000

Hi,
   We have a Thorn PM60 Lighting control desk - 60 way by three masters, with
a 60x10 pin-patch to program 10 sub-masters - which has an annoying fault on
it. Unfortunately Thorn went out of the theatre lighting business some time
back, and we don't have a Service Manual. Does anyone out there have access
to a Service Manual, circuit diagrams, or anything else about the PM60 that
might help us?

I would very much appreciate hearing from you if you can help. The PM60 is a
nice manual desk, and we can't convince the powers-that-be to replace it just
yet!

Many thanks in advance.

Martin
--
Martin C. Atkins		martin@kins.demon.co.uk
3 Willis Street
  York YO1 5BE
Tele: +44 904 612871

Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: ledzep@wam.umd.edu (John Henry Bonham)
Subject: Re: Stage Combat
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 04:57:46 GMT

As I had said earlier, The first thing is to get a good fight director...


Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: bernstei@caesar.cs.colorado.edu (Michael Bernstein)
Subject: Re: Stage Combat
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 23:51:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.131855.17165@wam.umd.edu> ledzep@wam.umd.edu (John Henry Bonham) writes:
>I Personally wouldn't trust soundtracks. There's too much that can sound faked.
>Like I said before You only need a few real swords and they can be shared.
>If theres a lot of combat, like say RObin Hood style, with lots of people
>fighting in the background then I think you can use wood with steel paint for
>the people who don't need to be seen too well. The main fights should have
>eal swords...
>

I would like to respond to this with an emphatic NO!

A theatre is dangerous in the first place, especially if you have a full
fly system, or even if you're running around on standard set construction.

(OSHA inspectors must blanch when they inspect theatres -- where else do
you work in an environment with heavy pieces of equipment moving in the
air and on the floor, being intentionally obscured by large sheets of
fabric and intense light contrasts?  With people moving amongst all this,
concentrating on speaking and "emoting"?)

Safety always (ALWAYS!) comes first.  If you can't produce "realistic" sword
effects without doing so safely, either CUT THEM, or MAKE DO with the
"fakeness".  As a director or technician, you can't assume that actors will
take care of themselves.  I've seen too many actors who are perfectly willing
to put themselves in needlessly dangerous positions for the sake of their
craft.  (We had an actor work on part of "his" set piece -- a platform on a
tree, where he spent the entire play -- and he managed to saw more than half
way through his sole structural support!)

Several people have suggested the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism)
for fight choreographers.  There are some good people in the SCA, but
they aren't necessarily trained to choreograph stage combat.  A friend
of mine (and our current resident fight choreographer) recommended 
the SAFD (I don't know the acronym for certain; Society of American Fight
Directors springs to mind.)

Michael
From: jditsme@terapin.com (Jennifer Darmstadt)
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Building a brick wall
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:53:13 PST
Organization: BBS

for a stage prop i assume?...plywood on a 2x4 frame covered with a thin piece
of sheetrock...paint it. it is carriable...
                -jen
"this man, with lime and rough cast, doth present Wall" -midsummer-night's
dream
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: wgatherg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William Gathergood)
Subject: Re: Stage Combat
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:21:59 GMT


I choreographed the Henry IV fight scenes back in 1969.  We used wooden swords,
painted with metalic paint for the general scenes, and rented real two-handed 
broadswords for the fights between:
                                     Douglas / Blunt
                                     Douglas / Hal
                                     Hal / Hotspur

Be _very_ careful with these fights.  A two-handed broadsword, once being 
swung, cannot change direction very well.  If someone zigs instead of zags, he 
has to face the consequences because the opponent can't pull back very easily.
Heavy objects in motion tend to stay in motion.  Also, insist that all 
combatants wear heavy gloves in all practises.  This includes all 
choreographers, planning out moves.  Be sure that all fingers stay behind the 
hilt.  One of our actors lost one joint of his index finger because he put it 
over the hilt for better leverage.

Concerning the cost of swords, try looking into Rennaissance Festivals. Sword 
producers from all over the world sell their products there.  I picked up two 
swords "Excaliber" type, for $120 each; that's purchase price, not rental.  
They are fully functional for combat once they have been sized.  If you don't 
have a Ren. Festival in the area, see if there is a local chapter of the 
Society for Creative Anacronysm.  They are a National group of people 
interested in promoting concepts of the middle ages.  They often get together 
and stage combat demonstrations and are a good source for weaponry and advice 
on how to not cut off fingers.  Unfortunately, I didn't run into them until 
long after Walter Blunt lost his finger. :-)

I'll try to find the address of the sword producer and will pass it on if I can
find their card.

BILL GATHERGOOD          wgatherg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
From: 90sra@eng.cam.ac.uk (S.R. Atkins)
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Mounds
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:20:45 GMT
Organization: cam.eng

In article <1993Jan20.222757.4545@trentu.ca> jreid@TrentU.CA writes:
>Dear All,
>
>I am doing a production of Beckett's _Happy Days_ at our local
>theatre.  I have two questions:
>
>1. Can someone talk to me about flash paper?

>
>2. How can I build the huge mound of dirt in which Winnie
>	is supposed to sink?
>			Thx.
>				Dr. J.
When we staged Happy Days as a low budget, small venue (~100 seater)
production we built the framework of a mound out of random bits of timber
and chicken-wire, with a ramp up the front up which.........the male
character could crawl. This was then covered with sheets of hessian and
sacking, painted and textured. The rear was hollow, giving space for the male
char. to sit comfortably (and operate a glass kick box to simulate the
bottle smashing). At the top was a hole big enough for the female char. to
sit in, buried to the waist. At the interval she moved down so that just
her head stuck out, with flaps of painted sacking covering up to her head.

Running the painted sacking as far as possible in all directions, to the
feet of the front row if it's appropriate in your venue, makes it all much
more believable even if the painting and texturing aren't perfect.

Far more important than the set is the lighting. Giving the effect of a
desert without washing out facial expressions isn't easy, and in the 2nd
act facial expression is everything.

Shows I'm a technician - I can remember the set, lighting, props and FX, the
performance on different nights, the names of the cast and production team,
the power consumption, the plot.........but not the names of the characters.

Steve Atkins (90sra@eng.cam.ac.uk sra@cxa.dl.ac.uk)
From: kenyon@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
Subject: Broadswords
Date: 28 Jan 93 02:03:48 GMT
Reply-To: kenyon@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

What Historical Period, and what country are you setting the piece in?
( yes, I know this may sound silly, but I've seen Henry IV,i done in modern
dress, without a specific time period { at the Folger incidentally })
The reason I ask is as follows, If you are doing a pre-1066 A.D. production
in Scotland, you could get away with having some good steel welded up in your
scene-shop, and wrapped in leather.  I have a sword of similar construction,
with a wood hilt, that was forged for me as a gift.  It cost about 2.00

in steel, and 2 hrs in labor.  It's not terribly sharp, which is better for
stage combat anyway, and makes a convincing ring when parrying a thrust.
If labor is not an issue, you could get away with this.  I could draw up 
more specific plans, if you like.  If you are setting this in a later time
period, or a country which requires the weapons to be more ornate, you
should probably shop around some more.  There is nothing more dissappointing
than a bad swordfight. 

Well, almost nothing...
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: kenyon@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: '60's Oil Slide F/X
Reply-To: kenyon@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 19:16:05 GMT

I'm currently working on a production of "As You Like It", set in the mid
1960's, and am trying to create/duplicate the old oil-slide effect.  
The effect will be rear-projected in an custom-made R.P. Screen of 4-mil
plastic.  The distance of the projector from the screen is not an issue; I 
have up to 50 feet of available space, if it's needed.  If anyone has any 
ideas about how to create/duplicate this effect, I would be most grateful.

William Kenyon
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: pierson@empror.enet.dec.com (dave pierson)
Subject: Re: Mounds
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 25 JAN 93 18:44:02    

In article <C1CLJp.A6p@news.udel.edu>, presto@bach.udel.edu (Jason Y Nocks) writes...
>In article <1993Jan20.222757.4545@trentu.ca> jreid@TrentU.CA writes:
>>Dear All,
>>
>>I am doing a production of Beckett's _Happy Days_ at our local
>>theatre.  I have two questions:
>>
>>1. Can someone talk to me about flash paper?
> 
>  What do you want to know about it? If you need to make it, try checking out
>rec.pyrotechnics (it might be covered in the FAQ), or one of several books
>on producing bangs, flashes, and puffs of smoke. If you just want to order it,
>I don't have the names of any dealers off hand, but try going through a local
>magic supplier. They will at least be able to send you in the right direction.
>Hope that helps.

	The universal opinion in r.p (where i hang out) is that buying is
	much better than making.  Its VERY hard to get stable results and the
	chemistry is risky (not earth-shatteringly so, but...).  FWIW, i once
	dug up the procedure for a friend who is a professional magician, with
	some military training in explosives.  He refused to have anything to
	do with making it...  By all means, ask in r.p, if you like.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass, USA	
01775				pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: presto@bach.udel.edu (Jason Y Nocks)
Subject: Re: Mounds
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 07:45:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.222757.4545@trentu.ca> jreid@TrentU.CA writes:
>Dear All,
>
>I am doing a production of Beckett's _Happy Days_ at our local
>theatre.  I have two questions:
>
>1. Can someone talk to me about flash paper?

  What do you want to know about it? If you need to make it, try checking out
rec.pyrotechnics (it might be covered in the FAQ), or one of several books
on producing bangs, flashes, and puffs of smoke. If you just want to order it,
I don't have the names of any dealers off hand, but try going through a local
magic supplier. They will at least be able to send you in the right direction.
Hope that helps.

>
>2. How can I build the huge mound of dirt in which Winnie
>	is supposed to sink?

  Not familiar with the story. More details would be helpful. I would, of
course, be much better at "simulating" this sinking rather than reproducing
it :)

>			Thx.
>				Dr. J.

Magically,
-Jason Nocks
-- 
| presto@brahms.udel.edu       | A senior E.E. at the U of D with a side order
| presto@freezer.cns.udel.edu  | of stage and close-up magic. The views
| nocks@snow-white.ee.udel.edu | expressed are exclusively my own (etc).
From: leonid@cco.caltech.edu (Leonid Malozemov)
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Building a brick wall
Date: 21 Jan 1993 08:55:25 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu


I have used the method Alan describes several times to make a brick wall, and
it works REALLY AMAZINGLY well.  (this was the sponge on muslin trick)

If you take the time to add good highlighting, weather the mortar, play with
a light source, etc. this technique looks good as close as 15 feet away.  It
looks absolutely killer on video.

One tip I might add is to prepare your mortar first.. Instead of using a plain
grey base, use a wet scumble that is mostly grey but has some white and black.
Then spatter, once in white and once in black, using little teeny spatters.

A good finishing touch to complete the weathering is to dip a natural sponge
in very thin black paint (read: would you like some paint with your water?)
and splotch it all over your bricks. Ummm.. "splotching" is when you wring
out the sponge until it is only a tiny bit damp and then touch various bits of it 
it to the painting.

Making bricks this way is really time-consuming the first time, but then it gets
fast and easy and fun.



Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft
From: wgatherg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William Gathergood)
Subject: Re: '60's Oil Slide F/X
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:16:43 GMT


>>I'm currently working on a production of "As You Like It", set in the mid
>>1960's, and am trying to create/duplicate the old oil-slide effect.
>>The effect will be rear-projected in an custom-made R.P. Screen of 4-mil
>>plastic.  The distance of the projector from the screen is not an issue; I
>>have up to 50 feet of available space, if it's needed.  If anyone has any
>>ideas about how to create/duplicate this effect, I would be most grateful.

In another follow-up someone mentioned coloring oil in a pyrex dish on the 
overhead projector.  A variation on that is to put water in a glass pie pan, 
color it with food coloring, drop in cooking oil, which floats in the mess.
Then the key is to put another glass pie pan on top of it and put it all on the
overhead projector.  By adjusting the weight and tilt of the top pan, you make 
the oil globs gyrate and dance.  You can even make them move in rythm with the
rock music.  Having several sets of pans enables you to transition from one 
base color to another - very psychodelic.

But for high tech, you might want to try using an amiga computer and D-Paint 
program to create gyrating animated figures that can be dumped to video tape 
and fed to the screen via a projection television.  It worked nicely for me as 
background in Glinda's castle for Wizard of Oz.

The first one takes about $30 worth of stuff.  The latter, about $5,000.
The effect is about the same.  Can you choose wisely?

BILL GATHERGOOD          wgatherg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.stagecraft