From: d89-gsk@nada.kth.se (Gani Skepi)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: RE: Contradictions in Quran?
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:35:54 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden


In article <713329599@lear.cs.duke.edu>, khushro@niagara.eecs.umich.edu (Khushro Shahookar) writes:
|> 
|> ----------------------------------------------
|> Question 1:
|>  [Ayats from the holy Quran deleted]
|> The above verses clearly state that the Bible is God's word, and that God's
|> word cannot be changed. 

There was a disscusion regarding this here on S.C.I some months ago.
I'll send you my respons on that subject through email which may make you 
understand it better.
Shortly I can say that the Injil (Gospel) spoken of by the Quran 
is NOT the NT.
It is NOT the four Gospels now recieved as canonnical.
Instead it is the single Gospel which was revealed to Jesus (pbuh) 
and which he taught.
Fragments of it has survived in the nowexisting four Gospels.

So the Injil spoken by the Holy Quran is the *original* Gospel 
which was promulgated by Jesus (pbuh), as the original Taurat 
was promulgated by Moses (pbuh) and the Quran by Muhammed (pbuh).

Secondly the Taurat spoken by God in the Quran is not the Torah as 
it is today its the way it was given the first time.

And then what is the Bible????
The word Bible means Book. The holy Quran *NEVER*, I repeat *NEVER*
mentions the word Bible. The funny thing is that the Bible itself 
doesn't mention it either.

|> 
|> This is contradictory to the Bible, since there are several verses in the
|> Bible that claim that God himself came to the earth as Jesus, and Jesus
|> himself said that he was God. I have read these verses, and there is no room
|> for any doubt about their meaning. I am not listing those verses from the Bible
|> here, but I can provide a list separately to whoever needs it. It is
|> also available for anonymous ftp on z.eecs.umich.edu (141.212.99.7) in
|> the file /pub/christ
|> 

:-)... If you want to I can send you some comments on some of those verses 
as the file was appearently directed to us Muslims.

Shortly I can say that there is *NO* place in the Bible were Jesus (pbuh)
with his OWN words while walking around here on Earth CLEARILY states that 
he is God and should be worshipped as such.

All the quotations which the (you) Christians bring forward 
are always *implicit*. 

I'm asking for a statement where the meaning is right on the 
surface of the word, i.e needs no explanation.
And  not an implicit statement where the meaning is carried 
just beneath the surface of the word. Which requires some 
thought before we determine what was meant by the words.
I'm referring to a simple statement as " I AM GOD, WORSHIP ME".

If Jesus (pbuh) was God then he should have said such a thing.
That is the LEAST we can require of God.
God don't hide behind words 
Mankind is enough confused, God don't want us to be more confused.
He only want to lead his creatures on the right path.....

But all quotations that are cited by you Christians in order to put in the 
mouth of Jesus(pbuh) the claim of deity are always implicit-which means 
interpretation is required. 


|> If there is a difference between 2 books, either one can be wrong. But if
|> the Quran has already claimed that The Bible is God's word, and God's word
|> cannot be changed, then this is a contradiction in the Quran. 
|> If you claim that the Bible has been changed, then you are violating Suras 
|> 6:115, 10:64, 41:43, and others. 
|> 

I hope you have understood by the things above that the holy Quran *NEVER* 
claims the Bible to be the *words of God*. The holy Quran talks about the
Gospel, the Psalms and the Torah, *NOT* the Bible.

>[Ayats from the holy Quran delted]
>This clearly states that God has given us different religions and that we
>will be judged by whatever has been given to us. However, if the Quran
>attacks another religion and says that some of its teachings are wrong, then
>that is a contradiction in the Quran.

:-)... It is definately not a contradiction.....
You said you had lived almost all your life in Pakistan, but still is seems
as if you don't know the basics of Islam.

An old professor by the name Max Fuller once put it in a very beautiful way :
"Religion is not a new invention. It is, if not as old as the world, at 
least as old as the world we know. There never was a false God nor was 
there ever a false religion, unless you call a child a false man. All 
religion, so far as I know them, had the same purpose. All were links 
in a chain which connected heaven and earth, and which held, and always 
was held, by one and the same hand."

The only religion given by God is a religion of which purpose is to make
people submitt themself to God. A person who submitts him/herself to God 
is called Muslim in Arabic. The religion of Total Submission to God is Islam.
Therefore the *ONLY* religion given by God has always been, and will always
be, Islam (i.e. the religion of total submission to God).

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(14:52)" Here is a Message for mankind: Let them take warning 
therefrom, and let them know that He is (no other than ) One Allah: 
Let men of understanding take heed."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(5:18)"Both the Jews and the Christians say:' We are the sons of Allah, 
and his beloved.' Say:'Why then doth he punish you for your sins? 
Nay, ye are but men,-of the men He hath created :He forgiveth whom
He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom he pleaseth:And to Allah belongeth 
the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: 
and unto him is the final goal(of all).'"

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(4:47)" O ye People of the Book! Believe in what We have
(now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you,
before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond
all recognition, and turn them hindwards. Or curse them as
We cursed the Sabbath-breakers: for the decision of Allah
must be carried out."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(5:15)" O People of the Book! There hath come to you Our Apostle, 
revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing 
over much (that is now unnecessary) There hath come to you From 
Allah a (new) light and a Perspicious Book."



|> Question 2:
|> 
|> In several places the Quran says that it fulfills the prophesies in the
|> Bible. What prophesies are these? I found a couple of them in an English
|> translation of the Quran, but they proved to be false, ie the interpretation
|> of the verses in the Bible was wrong. Can someone point me to a book that
|> gives this information?
|> Regarding prophesies for Jesus in the Old Testament, there are at least 50,
|> including place and time of birth etc.

:-)... Well, there is a good book on the subject which you can get.
Its "PROPHET MUHAMMAD The last messenger in the Bible" by Kais Al Kalby.
Send check or money order for $28 to :
American Muslim Cultural Association
P.O.Box 561
Logan, Utah 84321 
U.S.A

And its yours...

Or contact the I.P.C.I on the address below and ask them for  "What the 
Bible says about Muhammed (PBUH)" and "Muhammed (PBUH) The Natural Successor
to Christ (PBUH)" by Ahmed Deedat if you just want to "touch" the subject in 
a good and quickly way.....
   
ISLAMIC PROPAGATION CENTRE INTERNATIONAL
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
39-51 60TH STREET, P.O BOX 808, WOODSIDE, NEW YORK, 11377-0218
TEL: BUSINESS:(718) 4761972 / 4760082 RESIDENCE: (718) 7933042
FAX:(718) 8981240                 TELEX:4933903 SANA UI


|> Question 3:
|> 
|> The Quran gives several special previleges to the prophet Muhammad, PBUH,
|> which is contradictory to the claim that prophets are ordinary humans like
|> us, and they are not to be glorified.
|> 
|> For example, 
|> i) No one can marry the Prophet's wives, which is a violation of the Islamic
|> law, which allows widows to re-marry:
|> 
|> 33:53 " nor that you should marry his wives after him ever;
|> surely  this is grievous in the sight of Allah."

:-)..
The answer to this is actually only some ayats (verses) before that one.

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(33:6)"The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their ownselves, 
and his wives are their mothers."

So in a spiritual sense the wives of the Prophet(pbuh) are like our own 
Mothers.
So how can we marry our own mothers?????
See 4:23 for prohibition for marrying your mothers.

To understand the holy Quran you will have to read the whole of it.
I recommend you to contact the I.P.C.I and tell them to send you a good
translation on it. Its the one translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali and it has
commentaries which which may make it easier to understand what is meant.
I believe it cost something between $7-$10.

|> 
|> ii) the prophet Muhammad was allowed to have more than 4 wives, where as the
|> generally accpted limit for others is 4.
|> 

The purpose of ayat (4:3) is to limit the number of wifes to four whereas, 
until its revelation, there was no limit on the numbers of wives a Muslim 
could marry. This verse was revealed at the end of the eigth year of the 
Hijrah after the Prophet (pbuh) had allready married his wives (if I remember 
right he married his last wife at the year of A.H 7). 
This historical fact therefore repudiates the claim that Muhammed (pbuh) 
allowed himself that which he had forbidden to the people.

You seem to be *VERY* interested in the subject concerning the wives of 
the Prophet (pbuh) so I recommend that you read page 285-298, 317-339, 
429-442 in the book "The life of Muhammed" by Muhammad Husayn Haykal so 
that you may understand the *true* case concerning them.


Thomas Carlyle in "Heroes and Hero-worship comments on the lies 
that has been spread against Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) in these words:
"THE LIES, WHICH WELL-MEANING ZEAL HAS HEAPED ROUND THIS MAN, ARE 
DISGRACEFUL TO OURSELVES ONLY."


|> 
|> On the other hand, Jesus, followed the Law given in the Taurat completely,
|> he never changed any of it, and there were no exceptions or special
|> previledges for him.

Well, according to the NT the Jews accused him of breaking the Sabbath....

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(3:50)" (Jesus said) I have come to you to attest the law which was
before me, and to make lawful to you parts of what was (before) for-
biden to you: I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear
Allah, and obey me."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(5:15)" O People of the Book! There hath come to you Our Apostle, 
revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing 
over much (that is now unnecessary) There hath come to you From 
Allah a (new) light and a Perspicious Book."


Peace...
Always a Br. in Islam
Gani Skepi

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(SAHIH MUSLIMIN)" ... I heard the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) saying: 
He who amongst you should see something abominable should modify it
with the help of his hand; and if he has not strength enough to do 
it, then he should do it with his tongue, and if he has not strength 
enough to do it, (even) then he should (abhort it) from his heart, 
and that is the least of faith."
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