HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: blythedr@infonode.ingr.com (Dennis Blythe)
Subject: Re: Animal Rights bashing
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:42:32 GMT

>>
>>        Whoa!  The word "rights" has different meanings to
>>        different people.  Instead of assuming you (everyone)
>>        know what people "mean" by a particular buzzword,
>>        try to listen to what they're saying.
>>
>>        My too sense,   :^)
>>        Robin
>>
>
>Agreed. How many meanings exist for the following words:
>
>-feminist
>-conservative
>-liberal
>-government
>-diversity
>
>etc., etc., etc.
>
>I think it's a dangerous thing, to assume that someone supports an
>entire agenda when they use a word that is otherwise just a word.
>Did Tracy say, "I support Animal Rights as defined by...." or did
>she just say "animal rights"? Not to mention the fact that you're
>assuming she'd rather blow up a person than ride a horse. For pete's
>sake, SHE'S A RIDER.
>
>=gwyn


 I totally agree with this. Let's try not to sensationalize
every word everyone says. I think that inmost part, people who
want to support something will research what they are supporting.
The tautology of this subject is getting ridiculous.
 There is no sense in beating a dead horse (pun intended).
 
           Pam Blythe  ;-P 

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: cawalto@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (JOANNE WALTON)
Subject: Re: Body clipper advice needed
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 16 Oct 1992 08:03 EST  

In article <ldre46INNmsi@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>, gale@chrysos.Eng.Sun.COM (Gale Snow) writes...
>In article <1992Oct14.195356.8793@ulysses.att.com> grass@ulysses.att.com (Judith Grass) writes:
>>In article <ldohp2INNsla@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> clarefg@bestbet.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>>>It's getting close to time to body clip my wooley horse.  I have been 
>>>looking for clippers but can only find the little kind for wiskers and 
>>>bridle paths.
>>>
>....
>>
>>I can give you an anti-recommendation....   If you can find *** anything ***
>>OTHER than the Oster/Sunbeam large animal clippers, it would be worth
>>trying them.  And I wouldn't even ask about the price.
>....
>i've had my sunbeam stewart variable speed animal clippers for 10 years and
>have never had the troubles you descibe.  they've done a great job for me
>and i've used them every year since i got them and even loaned them to friends
>so they've been used often.
> 
>gale snow
>c'est jolie and jaseroque
> 


I have also had my Oster clippers for over 10 yrs and I have had no problem 
with them.  I have found all of my Oster products to be extremely reliable, 
and I would buy another pair of Oster clippers if/when mine ever break.

Joanne
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: advice on clippers
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:42:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ


	Last winter when I was planning to take my shaggy Arabian mare
who lives out on pasture to a show I decided to do a trace clip to
provide her a little warmth since I don't have any blankets and yet
make her look nice enough to show.  A trace clip is like half- a
body clip, you clip the lower part of the body, the underside of
the neck, the chest, and a little of the upper part of the legs.
You leave the top half of the horse unclipped, and you leave long
hair on the legs to sheet water off in rainstorms.  You may also
do the face, and in my case since it was an Arabian show I did the
fetlocks a little and feathered it into the longer leg hair.
	In any case to do all this I borrowed a set of Oster Glolden
A-5 clippers from a friend, with a number 10 blade.  They worked
beautifully.  The only caution I would make is that while well-broken
in A-5's are extremely cool running and don't heat up at all, brand
new ones will heat up so you must be very careful not to let the
clipping surface overheat to the point of discomfort for the horse.
I highly recommend the Oster A-5's, they give you all the versatility
you need in a clipper, they run quiet and smooth, and once broken in
they don't heat up at all.

				Tracy and everybody
From: karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Bot Fly Eggs
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:11:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Oct16.001131.10918
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

trudy@vcd.hp.com (Trudy Benjamin) writes:
 | 
 | After spending over an hour last weekend scraping bot fly eggs off my horse,
 | I was wondering if anyone had a really good way to do this.  I have a bot
 | fly scraping knife, but it seems to be good only for the first 75% of the
 | eggs.
 | 

Somebody awhile back told me to spray vinegar on them.  She said it
kills the eggs and the flies don't like it too much either, consequently
reducing the number of eggs you end up with.  I don't really know if
all that is true or not, but I took her word for it, filled up a cheap
spray bottle with vinegar, and started spraying away.  He smelled like
an Italian salad for days.  It seemed to work at the time but, since we
haven't had any problems with bots for a few years (just lucky I guess),
I don't have repeated results.

I do spray my horses down with Supercide (I love that stuff) every few 
days or so during the fly season.  I really spray the hell out of them 
and hit every square inch from the coronary bands up to the throatlatch
with the sprayer, especially legs, belly, and withers, then hand wipe 
the rest of the head.  As long as I'm confessing, here, I even saturate 
the tail real good with the possibly half-baked idea that major swishing
will reapply the stuff in that general area (Supercide is oil based,
so lasts quite awhile).  This has made a real difference in my thin-
skinned QH mare, who really welts up when certain little blood sucking
bastards chow down on her.  It has probably kept the bot flies at a
distance, too.  I haven't found any bot eggs on her for three years.

Anyway, good luck with the bots (nasty little devils that they are).
If your SO has a mustache, give him the comb for Christmas and he'll
be really impressed.

Karl Maerz
karlm@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: rewald@stsci.edu
Subject: Wanted: Calm Trailering Tips
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 22:08:08 GMT

Hi All -
  I was wondering what kind of advice you all might have for me and Shogun.
As you can tell from the brags, we've been doing more travelling than usual,
going to the trail-rides.  (Otherwise, we hardly ever trailer.  Generally,
he rides in a trailer less than once a month, for about 10-20 minute trip.)
Typically, its around a 4 hour trip to get to the competition.  His trailer-
mate is an old hand at trailering, she usually falls asleep while travelling.
Shogun, on the other hand, seems really nervous.  He doesn't scramble or jump
around or kick or do anything we can feel from the truck, but when we stop
to check on them, he is trembling, a little white of the eye is showing.  If he
has ANY kind of sheet on, he's sweaty; if we leave the sheet off, he seems a 
little cool, and the trembling looks like shivering.
   We've experimented with having windows open and shut, and the back upper
doors open or shut.  The "best" we've done so far is to close up the whole
trailer (back doors and windows) except for the window on his side.  That stayed
open 3-4 inches, and we had inadvertantly left on the light in the compartment.
I should mention that we're usually travelling after dark, and on good 
interstate highways.  Of course, his buddy wakes up when we check on them, she
can't understand what the fuss is about.  
   We also are wondering if he travels trembling, or if that comes on when
we start slowing down to stop (I know it's illegal for humans to ride in the
back, but I might travel in the dressing room for a few miles and peek at him
through the window.)
   Any ideas?  How about giving something like "Bee-Calm" before the trip?
(Actually, I'm not sure if bee-calm would violate the competitive ban on drugs,
but maybe we could use it in trailer-training?)
   Thanks for any suggestions -      Rosalie & Shogun
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: rse3765@sigma.tamu.edu (ERKERT, RONALD STEWART)
Subject: Re: Slaughter Houses
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:29:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.204431.9478@nas.nasa.gov>, gundy@equus.nas.nasa.gov (Karen L. Gundy-Burlet) writes...
>In article <BvtG34.KMu@mail.boi.hp.com> kris@boi.hp.com (kris troxel) writes:
>>..... Pet foods are required to meet the same standards for "wholesomeness"

			<stuff deleted>
> 
>Would wormers disqualify a horse from being slaughtered as pet food?
> 
So long as the drug has had time to clear thru the system, there is no 
problem, something like 90 days (someone can correct me on that).

			Ron

>Karen
>
From: pazzani@pan.ics.uci.edu (Michael Pazzani)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Salt blocks
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:59:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: ics.2AD333AD.4475
Reply-To: pazzani@ics.uci.edu (Michael Pazzani)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.

About how much salt should a horse (about 1100 pounds) consume?  When
we first got Blue Moon, we gave her a salt block with minerals (about
the size of a brick). She finished it in 2 days.  She's tapered down
to about 1 a week, but this still seems excessive to me, since our pony
(about 750 pounds) goes through one every 3 months.

Will she get high blood pressure?  :-)

She is feed primarily alfalfa hay, which tends to supply some
minerals in an incorrect proportion.  Does anyone have any
advice other than buying the larger salt blocks?

Thanks
Mike
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: Spanish Arabian bloodlines
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:04:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ


Hi, Denise, tried to send this via e-mail but it bounced.  
	Razada and Reyna were 2 of 5 Skowronek daughters who were
imported to Spain as foundation broodmares.  Skowronek of course was
a Crabbet sire who was bred in Poland but achieved fame in England
for the quality of the offspring he sired for Crabbet Stud.  Barquillo 
was a wonderful early Spanish sire who tragically died when another 
stallion and he got into a fight and both his front legs were broken.  
I recognize the name Congo but can't tell you anything about him.  There 
is a book that would help you quite a lot, it is called, The Arabian Horse 
in Europe (or something like that) and is by Erica Shiele, a German author.
It contains many photographs and a some good history on each of the
major studs in each country.

					Tracy and everybody
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Slaughter Houses (LONG)
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 16:11:25 GMT


Hi Ron,

Just a matter of clarification; I'm assuming from this description that
the animal bleeds to death. Is that correct?
#
#The bolt doesn't actually kill the animal.  Rather it acts as a general
#anesthetic.  Don't get me wrong, the animal doesn't feel a thing after being
#stunned.  In order to remove the blood from the animal the heart must pump.
#
Thanks,

Diane
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: STOP IT!!!  (& When it Rains it Pours)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:17:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.001748.2964@sequent.com>,
karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz) writes:
>
>Two sorta bad ones in one week.  hmmmmm...  I didn't think I had
>become too complacent (I'm generally very safety conscious) but
>the evidence would seem to suggest otherwise.  If these things run
>in three's I'm not looking forward to the next one...  Anyone else
>have any runs of fortune like this?
>
>Karl Maerz
>karlm@sequent.com

They ALWAYS run in three's, however that doesn't mean the third is
the worst. If I were you, I'd pick something as innocuous as
possible (having to wait in line at the feed store, forgetting your
gloves, running out of carrots, etc.) and then say, loudly, "OH
SHOOT, I GUESS THAT'S THE THIRD ROTTEN THING THAT'S HAPPENED TO ME
THIS WEEK." Hopefully the bad-things-come-in-three's gods will hear
you, say, "Well, I guess we got him, then," and move along to
someone else. Unless, of course, you recently broke a mirror, in
which case your screwed.

Good luck!

=gg
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: walkepl@auducadm.duc.auburn.edu (Paula Walker)
Subject: Re: Letting Loose
Organization: Auburn University
Distribution: global
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:56:08 GMT

In article <seqLmbO00iV3A1_78k@andrew.cmu.edu> Jean Andrews <ja23+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 09:24:55 -0400 
>From: Jean Andrews <ja23+@andrew.cmu.edu>
>Subject: Letting Loose

>Well we finally gave it a shot at letting Strawberry loose.
<stuff deleted> We
>saw how happy she was out, but how much is enough?  Thanks everyone for
>all your suggestions and for caring.  I think I was just as scared letting
>her out for the first time as I was letting my older daughter drive!

>Jean, Missi and Strawberry Pai

I try to give my boys as much free time in the pasture as I can.  Since I
am not showing or competing at the moment, they stay out 24 hours a day 
on a 25 acre pasture unless the weather is very cold (rare in Alabama) 
or nasty (I am also aware that the amount of "out-time" I have is not 
possible at many barns). Horses in a herd situation are bound to get nicks 
and cuts, so unless you are competing, I wouldn't worry too much about them
(unless she is being constantly bullied).  Horses can be just as happy and 
productive with much less pasture time than I give my boys, but I do believe 
that horses, being herd oriented animals, benefit from the free time and 
socialization they receive from pastured with other horses.

Paula

**************************************
*           Paula Walker             *
*    walkepl@auducadm.auburn.edu     *
*   Auburn University, Auburn, AL    *
**************************************
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: amy@meaddata.com (Amy Lehman)
Subject: Re: Recommended: Face Grooma
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:51:53 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Oct08.160943.57@microsoft.com>, brandyt@microsoft.com (Barbara Brandy Thorp) writes:
|> A couple of weeks ago I got a Head and Face Grooma.
|> It's like a round curry, only the rubber brisles are
|> really soft.  It didn't look like it would work that
|> well, but Ilike my big Grooma, and thought "Whatt the..."
|> 
|> Anyway, this thing is great!  My horse has always just
|> tolerated being brushed and stuff.  It is always a race
|> to see if I can finish before he gets tired of standing
|> still.  Now after I Face Grooma his face and legs he
|> is almost asleep and sighing with pleasure.  Plus, this
|> thing takes dried mud off his legs with ease.  
|> 
|> I have been looking for a way to give him pleasure that
|> isn't food related for years, and this really works.
|> 
|> ..brandyt.
|> 
|> (I have no relationship with whatever company makes
|>  the Grooma line, other than as a customer)
|> 

  It is so cute to watch Beau when I curry his neck along his
  mane.  He arches up, pushes into it, and closes his eyes. :-)
  You can almost see him saying, "oooh, a little to the left
  please!".

  It is amazing how the simplest horsey things can give us so
  much joy! :-)

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
	  		    	   ,--,            
Amy Lehman                   _ ___/ /\|                 (513) 865-1045
Mead Data Central        ,;`( )__, )  ~              Data Technologies
P.O. Box 933            //  //   '--;                 amy@meaddata.com
Dayton, Ohio  45401     '   \     |             ...!uunet!meaddata!amy
                             ^    ^ Beau...appaloosa sweetheart
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: mary@cairo.watson.ibm.com (Mary McHugh)
Subject: Re: sentementality/breeding lame horses
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 22:43:58 GMT
Reply-To: mary@cairo.watson.ibm.com (Mary McHugh)
Organization: IBM TJ Watson Home for Tired Hackers
Keywords: Breeding Lame Horses

In article <1992Oct15.023351.24003@athena.mit.edu>,
aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson) writes:
|> Why would anyone in their right mind want to use an unsound horse for
|> *breeding* purposes??  I've often read that "Oh, if the horse breaks
|> down we can always use him/her for breeding" and it makes absolutely
|> no sense to me, since the aim of breeding should be to produce *sound*
|> servicable horses, not promote a flawed line.  Unless the unsoundness

I agree 1000%.  About 12 years ago, I was on the CT 4-H horse judging
team.  We went to the Keystone Int'l and the QH Congress to compete
against other 4H teams.
At Keystone, we did very well.  At the QH Congress, we were a disaster. 
In particular, we judged a class of yearling stallions.  Out of the 4
yearlings, there was one outstanding baby -- exceptionally well
balanced.  The only thing wrong with him (and it was REALLY wrong) was
that he was incredibly straight in the pasterns in front.  Instead of a
close to ideal 45 degree angle, he was literally straight up and down. 
He was almost knuckling over on his toes.  We saw this group last(we
judged 3 classes at a time... 1/3 of the groups judging class A, 1/3
judging class B, 1/3 judging class 3 ... when time was up we swapped to
the next class of horses) and when he jogged, he was dead-lame in both
front legs.  Under 4-H rules, if the horse is lame (especially due to a
conformational flaw), he is automatically placed last.  All the 4-H
teams in our group put the horse last.  Well, in the official placings,
he was judged first.  Every team in our group placed a protest.  The
official ruling stood and the reason given was that since his overall
conformation minus the pasterns was so much better that the other 3 in
the class, he was still judged first.... and besides, he was destined to
be a breeding stallion anyway and didn't need to be sound!  We couldn't
believe it.  All the 4-H coaches were incensed as this went against
everything they were teaching.  

I don't mean to flame QH people here, I'm just relating ONE isolated
incident.  As a matter of fact, we stopped at several QH breeding farms
along the way to practice for the Congress and those breeders didn't
have this attitude.

Well, I've blustered on too long.  I had forgotten about that incident
until Karen brought the point up.

Mary McHugh (and Bubba ... the smarta-- Arab who has been wondering why
I sign off with Wilbur's name first and Wilbur ... who doesn't know the
difference since he can't read)     
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: ferricpl@piston.detroit.ingr.com (Pat Ferrick)
Subject: Chronic Sporadic Lameness Revisited
Organization: Intergraph
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:12:42 GMT

Hey all!

I just wanted to thank all of you who responed to my last post regarding the
mysterious lameness of my Appy. I took your collective advice and called out
a vet who specializes in lameness. And guess what? Remember how I was convinced
it was his right rear leg? Well, it was his left FRONT leg that was the problem.
This has been on going for the last 6 - 8 weeks, on and off, with no apparent
pattern. The vet watched me ride him for about 10 minutes at the walk and trot.
He then informed me that it was his left front leg that was the problem. He did
have a very sensitive check ligament. Rymal (the vet) said that he thought that
could be the problem, or he determined, it was in the foot itself. He ruled out
a bruise or abcess because he was shod and padded, so he blocked the foot to 
see if it was the check ligament. Well, after the block, he was sound. So we
ended up taking x-rays of the foot. I talked to him this morning and we discovered that he has a very slight case of 3 things: ringbone, arthritic changes to
both the coffin and navicular bones. But, in combination, could result in the
sporadic slight lameness we've been experiencing. There is no cure, but at leastI know now what I'm up against. We are going to try corrective shoeing to start,and see if that alone alleviates his discomfort.

Once again, thanks for your responses and well wishes!

Pat and Golden Ghost
From: mary@cairo.watson.ibm.com (Mary McHugh)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Body clipper advice needed
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:18:52 GMT
Reply-To: mary@cairo.watson.ibm.com (Mary McHugh)
Organization: IBM TJ Watson Home for Tired Hackers

Hmmm... I thought I just posted about this recently....  Oh well.  If
you really want to do this right, you need the big Sunbeam EW610 or
EW510 clippers.  If you look in, say, the Millers catalog, they run
about $250.  Dover's latest fall sale catalog has them for $167(but only
for a limited time).  OR........you can order them from the R.C. Steele
catalog for about $150 (prices quoted are for the EW610.... EW510
slightly cheaper). 

 I recommend R.C. Steele.  I bought my EW610 last year from them and the
price then was $143.  I couldn't believe that they were so cheap and I
figured there was a gimmick(besides the $50 minimum order - which isn't
a problem if you're buying clippers ;-).  Sure enough, when I called,
the lady said they were backordered and the wait was 2 weeks.  HA!!!...I
figured it would be 1995 before I received them.  Imagine my surprise
when in two weeks, they arrived!  

Anyway, the difference between the 510 & 610 is that the 610 has a
variable speed motor... worth the $10-20 difference in price.  I just
clipped Wilbur with them on Saturday and it took about 1.5 hrs (which is
a miracle considering he is >17 hands and is built like a sherman tank).
The last time I clipped him, it took 3 days with my Oster A-5 clippers
(about 8 hours total).

Just my .02cents worth.  I will post the Dover # and the RC Steele #
tomorrow.  I just got new catalogs from both.

Mary McHugh  (and Wilbur who has been christened with a new nickname by
my husband since he was clipped -- Mr. BristleHead  ... And Bubba who
prefers to be au natural)    
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: mary@cairo.watson.ibm.com (Mary McHugh)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Calm Trailering Tips
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 21:34:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Reply-To: mchugh@watson.ibm.com (Mary McHugh)
Organization: IBM TJ Watson Home for Tired Hackers

Hi Rosalie....

Try trailering him by himself... maybe the mare isn't as quiet as you
think.  Also, try trailering him on the other side, with a different
horse, different trailer, etc.  Is he like this for the short rides too?
And I would DEFINITELY ride (at least for a short trip) in the trailer
to see whats up.  Maybe something is swinging or banging around in
there.  If he is just nervous from a previous bad experience or just
from not being shipped very often, the only thing that will really cure
him is more time in the trailer.

Wilbur used to be a little nervous (wouldn't eat... white eye, etc) but
eventually chilled out.  Now the only behavior I have to deal with is
him hiding (typically behind a tree) when I pull the rig out ;-)  After
all, trailering means lessons, shows, etc. -- always work!     

Good Luck!

Mary McHugh (And Wilbur who ascribes to the theory "If I can't see you,
you can't see me" and therefore assumes that I don't see his big butt
sticking out when he hides behind that tree.... And Bub who LOVES to be
chauffeured around in the trailer!) 
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian