HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nholmes@vesta.ICS.UCI.EDU
Subject: Multiple Marriages
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Date: 27 Aug 92 03:12:01 GMT


I have been following the recent discussion on
SCP about "multiple marriages" and would like to
make the following comment regarding Rukshana Merchant's
posting.

Miss Merchant has produced two phrases from the Qur'an:

        "If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly
        with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or three,
        or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal
        justly (with them), then (marry) only one..." (Qur'an 4:3) 	... (1)

        "You are never able to be fair and just as between women
        even if it is your ardent desire...."  (Qur'an 4:129)		... (2)


Use of the word "never" by Allah[swt] in phrase (2) indicates that
no man, regardless of his intent, is ever able to be fair and just
between women.  If this is the case, then Allah[swt]'s phrase (1)
implies that all men should marry at most one woman.

-Regards,

Nancy D. Holmes
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC BROTERHOOD - BOSNIA V/S SOMALIA
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 07:50:12 GMT

rroy@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Raja R Roy) writes:

(Stuff deleated of reference articles  (S.D.R.A.)

>     Why such a narrow definition of brotherhood ?  Why can not you claim
>non-muslims as your brothers as well. Why not claim mankind itself as a 
>big fraternity! Do you really think that it is always non-muslims who are
> at fault and a muslim is always right ?

>Regards

>Raja 


Tippu Bad Shah:

No doubt Pakistan is sending  5?????????? milatery personel to Somalia.

But when this decision was taken?

Was it before the West decided send the troop?

Why Pakistan is sending army to Somalia and did not send in Ethopia?

Why?

Muslims' blood is blood and others is water.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Think over it and then send another mail.


Hope some humanity will come to you.




Bye
Adil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: dogar@rtsg.mot.com (Haroon H. Dogar)
Subject: Re: The Real Problem (Was Is Islam equal to Intolearnce )
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:07:43 GMT

gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:

>In article <dogar.715445091@opal5> dogar@rtsg.mot.com (Haroon H. Dogar) writes:
>>gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
>>
>>>Wrong Analogy Sir. USA govt. (or even Indian govt.) does 
>>>not mind what you do as long as what you do affects only 
>>>you (sucide is an exception though). Stealing, murder and 
>>>other crimes are not activities that are relegated to one's 
>>>personal self. They affect the community and hence it is 
>>>right for the community to bother about what affects them. 
>>
>>
>>drugs, marriage laws, prostitution, gambling, public nudity, pornography, ...

>Yep. All of the above are not relegated to personal self. They 
>affect the whole community.  I don't need to go into the details 
>of how they do, do I ? 


Actually, yes. 

Every action of the individual affects the whole.
Perhaps if you would explain why you feel the above mentioned
activities affect the community, and contrast that with those
activities which you feel Islam unnecissarily intrudes into, I
will better understand your position. [Those actions which you
feel do not affect the whole community vs. those mentioned above.]

-hd
Five Rivers Gun and Hunt Club

"We carry in our hearts the True Country ..."
 -Midnight Oil
From: azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: shooting husbands(not to b taken seriously need i add) : )
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:46:20 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <29AUG199223574519@iago.caltech.edu> mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL) writes:
>In article <1992Aug30.015213.12044@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, alam@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ALAM AFSHAN) writes...
>>and u know what they say ab it being hard to find a good man or was it
>>the other way around :)
>
>     I have always marvelled at your playful sentences with possible
>     hidden meanings, or is it the other way around ? P)
>>Afshan.  uh-huh:)
>Asim Mughal

	   On the contrary, a hard man is easy to find, and so is a good
man. The problem is that they don't say good (and hard) for too long
after one finds them. Unfortunately, shooting terminates good (and
hard) men. 

	   Salman [I did not shoot the deputy] Azhar


-- 
"To have loved and lost is better than to have won.... For, the burden
of victory has to be shouldered throughout life, and all losses rest
easy in the insatiable abyss called grave." 
--- D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar CS Dept Duke U  azhar@cs.duke.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: rashid@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (The True Guider)
Subject: ghazal by Faraz
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:42:04 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA


  gairat-e-ishk  salamat   theey  anaa  zinda  theey
  wo bhi din thay kay rah-o-rasam-e-wafa zinda theey

                    quess ko dosh naa do rakhiyo naa farhad ko naam
                    inhein logoan say  mohabbat kee ada zinda theey 

  shehar-e-bimaar  kay  her   koochay-o-baam-o-dar  par
  hum bhi martey thay kay jab khulk-e-khuda zinda theey

                    bhooj ghain shammain, toa dum thorr gai jhonkai bhee
                    jis  tarah  zehar-e-rakabat  say  hawa  zinda  theey
 
  yad-e-ayaam ke sehra-e-mohabbat mai Faraz
  jars-e-kafila-e-dil kee sadaa zinda theey


                             BY AHMED FARAZ
                             in his kalaam  'pas andaz mosum'



___________________________________________________________________________
|~~~\  /~~\  /~~~\ |    | ~~|~~ |~~~\   
|___/ (____) \     |____|   |   |    |
|  \  |    |   \   |    |   |   |    | 
|   \ |    |\___/  |    | __|__ |___/

                   |    |  /~~\  |  / |~~~~ |~~~~ |\    /|
                   |____| (____) |/   |____ |____ |  \/  |
                   |    | |    | |\   |     |     |      |
                   |    | |    | |  \ |____ |____ |      |

___________________________________________________________________________
From: amuh2@bu-pub.bu.edu (muhammad ahmed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: 14th August....(Correction)
Keywords: Pakistan Zindabad
Date: 31 Aug 92 02:58:38 GMT
Organization: Boston University

Thee second line of second Paragraph of my last posting should be read as;

TODAYS PAKISTAN HAS NO SIGNIFICANT HINDU HISTORY....


Apologies for this error.

-Muhammad Ahmed



Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Subject: Re: the terminator part n : )
Summary: Please post !!!!
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:56:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.013151.20853@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, kmubarak@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kamal Mubarak MD) writes:
> >> >ah.and then rigor mortis sets in.mayb thats the soln to longterm hardness
> 
stuff deleted
> 
> The best translated work is "The Perfumed Garden of Shaykh  Nefzawi".  In
> such works one finds the strange mixture of the sexual  and  the  sacral.
> What can you say to a text that begins:
> 
> "Praise be given to Allah who hath lodged Man's greatest Pleasure  in the
> Clefts of Women and caused the Joy of Women to centre in the Lance-points
> of Men...."
> 
> The venerable Shaykh goes on to describe all kinds of  juicy  stories  as
> well as information of general  interest.  Especially  interesting  is  a
> chapter devoted to "positions". Not as extensive as what one finds in the
> Kama Sutra, but nonetheless, fairly comprehensive.
> 
> If there is enough interest (from both sexes), I can post excerpts....
> 
> Kamal.

Please post, you have my vote.
Others with similar information are also encouraged.

regards,

-Naveed
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Bharat's (India's) Ballistic...
Date: 29 Aug 92 20:29:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.oec4uDO00VpCIYj0tG
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


There are many good reasons for India to become a nuclear power:

among them are the fact that China still lays claim to the Indian
state of Arunachal Pradesh; the fact that Pakistan still lays claim
to Kashmir,

that being a nuclear power might give India a permanent Security
Council seat; (for example -- sooner or later the world is going to
want to exploit Antarctica -- India would like to have a voice in
that. India has already set up a camp on Antartica. )

that India is developing civilian space technology -- to be able to
launch communications satellites and earth-observing satellites --
if India succeeds it would cost about a third of what it costs to get
the Russians or Americans or Europeans to launch -- and I'm told
it doesn't cost very much more to convert this into military 
missiles -- might as well be militarily self-sufficient,

that it might be a lucrative export market.

and so on. No very moral reasons, if that is what you were looking for,
but a lot of real-politik.

-arun gupta
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh)
Subject: Re: August 14'.. (There is a nice book...)
Keywords: Pakistan India Missile Bosnia August 
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 12:17:51 GMT

i000@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:
(stuff deleated of reference article)

>  HISTORY IS NOT Re-CREATED BY WRITING BOOKS :-)
>  IT HAPPENS.  YOU ONLY LEARN AND TRY TO UNDO IT 
>  if any HISTORICAL ERRORS TAKE PLACE ! :-)


History is history.

It is past.

It cannot be undo.

If you think creation of Pakistan is a historical error then
what were the cause of it.

If India has learnt anything from the creation of PAkistan is to
repeat the same mistake. The answer is in hand : Sikhs are asking Khalistan.


Bye
Adil
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Strawberry Fields Forever (1,2,3 + latest addition)
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:59:42 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Sep1.224313.8191@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> alam@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ALAM AFSHAN) writes:
>memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon) writes:
>
>>          Dedicated to sis Afshan, the poetess, who's mining for truth in the 
>honor'd i'm sure, not to mention delighted!
>>          serene rocky mountains the last we heard :)
>and may she find it! aameen!
>

listening to a old song by Joe Walsh (Eagles, James gang) that went something 
like,

spent the last year rocky mountain way, could'nt get much higher :)

You've got to love these references to rock and cocaine in songs.

>>	  		Strawberry Fields Forever
>i loved it!what w/ :)  (longish sentence ahead:))
>the ganDayriaaN,the bhuTTay,the highs:) from lking at the sky (the 1st time
>it happ'd to me was when i was on my 1st return trip from madras after having
>sat for hours alone at the beech staring the breakers.the clds all insisted
>on lking like so many brking waves!), the spinning around like crazy aka
>kikli, the gulayls(+ the gulliDanDa, the gali meiN cricket), the patangs (we
>used to live on the 1st flr (delhi-style) & innumerable kites dropped into
>our balcony after being cut in mid-air paichbaazi.it was a veritable blackhole
>for kites:)), not the cigarettes tho:), & the labraizing paimanas of parents'
>sabr for other reasons:) and the eidi u'v now made me properly homesick! 
>the crushed ice we had was cov'd w/  sickly sweet red and green syrups of 
>mostly unknown origins, but was nonetheless v popular.i must admit the refce
>to peepla,shuttle cock burqas not to mention intimate gestures inv crossing
>of arms had me somewhat mystified :) but thats the price 1 pays for not
>growing up in karachi :).

No it was my fault. Peepla is someone who subscribed to the Pakistan People's 
Party that was overthrown in 77. Shuttle cock burqas are those white ones with
a jali(net) for the benefit of vision. From a distance it looked like that 
thing you use in badminton. Intimate gesture, you may have seen it in the 
movies, it is the desi equivalent of  international "finger"

>Afshan. r u going away naveed.& does this mean i'll have to revert to rdg t.b:)
>damn!:)

Not necessarily, I'll try to keep in touch with scp through regular mail, 
infact the very first thing i'll do is look for people who've figured out
this email thing. BTW I am definitely out of here by the 20th. Defending in
the week following the labour-day weekend.


Naveed
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Islam: Difference b/w blasphemy and Criticizm
Date: 31 Aug 1992 14:15:17 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Aug28.003744.13599@newton.ccs.tuns.ca> jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali) writes:
:In article <l9qokhINN6ut@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
::
::In Islam, an "act" is considered "criminal" if its commission
::results in the violation of some right of the "affectee".
:
:I assume you mean the right as defined by Islam... which may be considered
:some what arbitrary by many. 
:

Well let's see how you define "rights"?

By your logic of relativity, even the "bill of rights" is as arbitrary!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: anajam@athena.mit.edu (ADIL NAJAM)
Subject: Re: humm aaa gaa-aye tou garmi-e-baazar daikhna....
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:45:52 GMT


Naveed Siraj Memon) writes:

|> Adil, you are back. Thank you, thank you. I missed your articles. Thank
|> you brother.

		thanks for the reception, Naveed.  I sure missed 
		SCP.......and believe me, self-imposed exiles are
		the hardest of the lot.........


		I sure messed up Faiz in my post..........but then,
		as a wise man said (could it have been DS[Q]A...or
		was it FZ ?????):  baat samajh meiN aaa gaaye hai na? ;-)

	anyhow, I can finish your Faiz quiz somewhat......here's what
	I remember.....

|> 
|>         Now you've reminded me of the ghazal and I am not able to
|> 	recall it completely. Can someone correct me or add accordingly
|> 
|> 	tairay ghum ko jaaN kee talaash thee,tairay jan-nisaar chalay gayay
|> 	teeree rah main kartay thay sar talab, sar e ereh guzaar chalay gayay
|> 
|> 	na saval e vasl na arz e ghum na hikayataiN na shikayataiN
|> 	tairay ahd maiN dil e zaar kay sabhee ikhtiyaar chalaya gayay
|> 
|> 	yeh hamaiN thay jin kay libaas say sar e roh seyayhee likhee gayay
|>         **** (getting lost here)

		of the exact wording I am not sure, but the essence of
		the second misra goes something like this:
		
		yeh he daagh ****saar**** pay saja kay humm
		saar-e-koo-aye yaar chalay gayay

|> 
|>     (*)	na raha junoon e rukhay vafa veh rasan yeh daar karo gay kya
|>         **** (getting lost here, sorry)

		your intution was right, the whole sheyr goes thus:
			
		na raha junoon e rukhay vafa, yeh rasan yeh daar karo gay kya
		jinhaiN jurm-e-ishq pay naaz tha, woh gunah-gaar chalay gayay

		[this is a sheyr that I have always identified with:-)]

|> 
|>         where does the following misra go,
|> 	jinhaiN jurm e ishq peh naaz thaa, vo gunah gaar chalay gayay. I think
|> 	it makes sense in (*)
|> 



	ADIL [.....aaj baazar meiN paa bajolaaN chaalo.....] NAJAM
From: mg819306@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Bharat's (India's) Ballistic Missile Program !
Date: 29 Aug 92 19:54:50 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

>
>     How long Pakistan is going to keep its eyes shut towards Bharat's
>     Nuclear-Capable Ballistic Missile Program? 
>
>     This morning's news mentions Bharat(India) carrying out a second 
>     test this month for short-range nuclear-capable ballistic missle,Prithvi. 
>     Quotes: 
>
>	"The Prithvi has been developed as a deterrent against Pakistan, while
>the Agni has been designed to strike targets deep inside China."
>
>     Bharat (India) was the sixth country in 1974 to denote nuclear device.
>     Prithvi & Agni are nuclear capable.
>     Prithvi: payload one-ton, range 150 miles, production begins 1993
>     Agni   : payload over one-ton, range 1500 miles,production begins 1995
>     Trishul: Ground-to-air Missile, in production.
>     Akash  : An anti-tactical missile, in production.
>     Nag    : An anti-tack rocket, in production.
>
>     This is not an exhaustive list, one wonders;
>
>     1. Why our friendly neighbor is so keen on stock piling long range
>        missiles when it already has superiority of 4-7 times in military?
>
>     2. Why everyone is blind to such an aggressive nuclear program while
>        there is an uproar because a canadian Pakistani was found with a 	
>        'triggering switch?' Among thousands of applications, it can possibly
>        be used in a nuclear power plant.
>
>     [One should be careful and not be found with a pen or paper either,
>      it can possibly be used at some where inside a nuclear plant ;)   ]
>
>
>Asim Mughal
>
1. 4-7 superiority is good but 7-10 would be better.
2. N. Sharief wants Kashmir. India is all for the Kashmiris to
decide but Pakistan should pull out first.
3. Pakistan has attacked India in the past.
4. In the past India was conquered because it did not keep
up with the weapon technology.
5. To have an independent foriegn policy (which India has),
one must not depend on others for defence.
6. We lost a lot of men in Sri Lanka, in the Iraq war
US has shown that losses can be drastically reduced if
missiles are used.

Are six reasons enough.

If the west could stop India's missile program it would.
When we exploded the nuclear bomb we did not need any
components from abroad, it was totally built in India.

[One should not expect others to solve one's problems]

Manoj
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: dogar@rtsg.mot.com (Haroon H. Dogar)
Subject: Re: The Real Problem (Was Is Islam equal to Intolearnce )
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:44:51 GMT

gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:

>Wrong Analogy Sir. USA govt. (or even Indian govt.) does 
>not mind what you do as long as what you do affects only 
>you (sucide is an exception though). Stealing, murder and 
>other crimes are not activities that are relegated to one's 
>personal self. They affect the community and hence it is 
>right for the community to bother about what affects them. 


drugs, marriage laws, prostitution, gambling, public nudity, pornography, ...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed)
Subject: Re: ever heard of the KILLFILES?(was RE:Strawberry Fields Forever
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 18:45:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.162742.70@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu> aakhan@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu writes:
>In article <Btn0E0.2q3@acsu.buffalo.edu>, memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon) writes:

>> Another famous pathan in the neighbourhood owned a bhutta-stand(corncob).
>                 ^^^^^^
>[yet another miraculous patchwork by BITSTREAM SANITATION DEPT]   
>
>> Head to yet-yunder pathan who

>THE SADDEST PART OF IT ALL IS THAT YOU AND 99% OF KARACIATES ARE RASCISTS
>IN THE THIRD DEGREE
>WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING IT
>
>ANY LAST WORDS?
>
>
>PAKHTOON AND PROUD OF IT 
>AAKHAN


That's contradictory.  If he's unwittingly tactless, you can at
most condemn him of insensitivity and ignorance.  To be a 
racist would involve premeditated hostility towards pathans, whereas
his article portrays them with an indulgent fondness and sense of
humor.  If at all, bigotry is an issue in your blanket categorisation:

99% OF KARACIATES ARE RASCISTS IN THE THIRD DEGREE...

Finally, I am heartened to note your support for and pride in Pakhtoons.

Regards,

Usman
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:14237 soc.culture.indian:29514
From: g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: meaning of 14th august
Date: 27 Aug 92 06:36:15 GMT
Organization: University Of Wollongong



The 14th August 1947 has significant meaning in Indian history.

The begining of new era.

People whose rights are deprived or their ideology and rights are going to
remain on paper and actually not practiced then they can learn from
14th August that they can have a significant date to celebrate as approx. 10%
of people from subcontinent are celebrating.

So for Khalistanis and Kashmiris 14th August has significant.

Bangladeshi have understood the significance of 14th August and are
now celebrating 15th December.

Bye
Adil
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Islam: Difference b/w blasphemy and Criticizm
Date: 31 Aug 1992 14:11:41 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Aug28.005031.3295@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
>
>example: Comparing Islamic system and US law Justice sytem.
>
> Islamic system is based is law on earth and law in hereafter.
>Which makes sense to muslims ONLY. US law is made to make sense
>to EVERYBODY, or as many people as possible.

Well, to us "secularism" like that in India (problems with
Kashmiris and Sikhs), Turkey( with Kurds), Germany France and other
European nations (problems with immigrants), makes no sense.

>
>When you need
>ultimate justice, we are back to allah[swt], when comes to 
>justifying muslim's death threats, you are out to settle the
>issues on earth.

When USA needs Oil,  human rights-bla-bla-bla is used to
settle the issues on earth, and when Somalia and Bosnia situation 
arises they are back to the lame excuse of NOT enough security
interests!

>
>You have vague concept of justice in hereafter,
>which can be used to solve any problem whatsoever.
>It is like having a non-deterministic turing machine.
>Obviously if you have non-detrministic turing machines
>you can solve a lot of problems, unfortunately, such machines
>dont exist. 
>

For you the concept of justice in the hereafter may be vague,
but Islamic concept of justice in this world is "definitely"
NOT vague and is very clear. And the concept of hereafter, 
in the pure logical sense is NOT at all vague, but is rather
too "rational", given the axiom that Allah exists!!!!!!

>If you want to compare, the two land based system and leave
>the hereafter part out of it. 

OK. Let's compare the system of justice on this land. I
warn you that if I wouldn't be invoking hereafter, then
are you prepared NOT to invoke your vague concept of 
"natural" law?

Do you know why the select committee grilled Judge Thomas
and Judge Souter so much in the hearings about their view
of the  "natural law"? Would US law make sense without
this "vagueness" as enshrined in the deceptively commonplace
term "natural law"??????
Now compare this "natural law" with Islamic concept of justice
in the "hereafter". I will guarantee that Islamic concept
is by far much more "solid", "sensical" and "clear" than
the "natural law".
>> 
>
>But my claim is the very basic claim of
>Islam is blasphemous to christians. It is nothing
>to do with an individual would say or do.
>

Please, define "blasphemous" and "libel". I guarantee that
Islamic discussion of christianity in no way falls in
either category!


Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan