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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:58:34 CST
Reply-To:     bradk@isdgsm.rtsg.mot.com
From:         "(Brad Kaiser)" <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reply to Brad Kaiser

Michael Million writes:

> Instead of answering what one has to give God if it is not the
> submission of your will to His Will, you ask the questions below:
> [I was hoping that by answering questions from other posters I would
> be given the courtesy of having my questions answered but I guess
> either you folks have no answers or you think my questions unimportant.
> I wish we could have some mutual respect along these lines; it is a
> very normal way to proceed with constructive conversation.]

I'm sorry, I didn't know that question was directed to me, as well as to
my Calvinist brothers (and sisters?).  I think I assumed you knew about
our (somewhat) differing positions on issues of free will and utter
depravity.

However, you ask what one has to give God if it is not the submission of
one's will to the Will of God.  Let me ask a rhetorical question in
reply.  If God created you, and your will, and He is both a loving
Father and the Lord of the Universe, then is it not more humble for you
to know, from the very depth of your soul, that you cannot even return
to Him what He gave you without His help?

You see, at the root of it, I think we agree that the submission of
one's will to God's Will is a profound sacrifice.  But there is a
greater sacrifice: it is to make the complete submission that
acknowledges that we are useless servants, that we cannot, *of
ourselves*, even make the sacrifice of our wills to God.  We can make
that sacrifice only through, in, and to Him; only when He has empowered
us to do so through grace.

>  >1) Is Jesus Christ truly God, in every sense?
>
>  It is my understanding that all creatures must approach the Father
>  through the Son; to the creatures of a local universe, the Creator
>  Son is the same as God in all aspects perceivable.  So the answer,
>  as I know it, is *yes* ... we on earth know our Creator Parent by
>  his bestowal life on our planet, the living revelation, Jesus Christ.
>  We are unfamiliar with his larger personality as a Creator Son; but
>  this should cause us no great concern.

This seems quite equivocal to me.  You say the "Creator Son" is the same
as God in all aspects "perceivable".  Is this merely how we perceive
Christ, or is it an intrisic part of the living revelation of Christ
that He, Christ, is God from God, Light from Light, True God from True
God, begotten, not made, of one substance with the Father?

>  Brad asks:
>  >2) If so, where on earth today is the infallible source of His
>  >   true doctrine?
>  >3) Upon what or whose authority do you base *your* teaching?
>
>  Happily, the answer is the same to both of these questions.  The
>  volume known as _The Urantia Book_ is the divinely composed, direct
>  revelation for our epoch.

Please give me convincing proof that the Urantia Book is divinely
composed.

When was this book written?  Christ walked the earth 2000 years ago.  Do
you expect me to believe that His true teaching was somehow forgotten
until very recently?  I would expect much greater care from a "Creator
Son", and infinitely greater care from "the Messiah, the Son of the
Living God" (Mt 16:18)

Michael, I have a question for you.  When you need work done on your
house, do you expend some effort to search out a reputable carpenter to
do the work?  When you need your car repaired, are you careful about
what mechanic you go to, or do you simply go to the first mechanic who
promises to do the work?  When you are ill, do you go to the first
crackpot doctor who seems friendly over the telephone, or do you look
carefully for a competent physician?

We are speaking here of matters far more important than your house or
your car or your body.  We are discussing the future disposition of your
immortal soul.  I believe you owe it to yourself to search for the
reputable source of the truth of Christ.  If Christ is truly
God-made-man, who truly died for the salvation of all mankind, then He
has preserved His teachings -- all of them -- completely free of any
error.  Your task is to find where on this earth those teachings are
preserved.

You should look for a visible, unified organization, because only a
unified organization can fight error effectively.  You should look for
an ancient organization, one whose history can be credibly traced all
the way back to the time of Christ, because it makes sense that God
would preserve His Church.  You should look for an organization which is
universal, since one would not expect God to found an organization which
fails to prosper (in the sense of winning many souls to Christ).  You
should look for an organization which can produce some scientifically
verifiable but objectively miraculous evidence for its claims, since it
makes sense that a truly supernatural organization would show forth real
supernatural manifestations of the power of God.  Finally, you should
look for an organization which claims seriously to be what you are
looking for: the authentic Church founded by Jesus Christ for the
salvation of man.

There is one and only one organization which meets all of these
criteria: the Holy Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ upon the
Rock of Blessed Peter.

>  >Scripture says you were conceived in sin (Ps 51).
>  Biblical scripture was written by man, who is capable of error and
>  misunderstanding.

Scripture is protected from error by the guidance and inspiration of
the Holy Spirit.

> I seriously doubt that luck will have much to do with it; notice I
> said natural urges _can_ be mastered by the mind... I strive daily to
> accomplish self-control.  I am assured that the striving is the
> important fact here; _striving_ for perfection is what is requested of
> us.

No.  What is requested, nay, *required* from us is to open ourselves
utterly to the saving grace of God.  Christ has already striven for us;
He has and will do the work for you.  Why do you want to work in vain
for what you can have for free?  Why do you want to earn bread by the
sweat of your brow, when you can have the Bread of Life, the Bread of
Angels ...  at the cost of nothing but your own pride?

>                                     in brotherhood,  Michael Million

In Christ's Loving Peace,

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

          The King of Heaven,
          because of His love for mankind, appeared
          on earth and dwelt with men;
          He took flesh from the pure Virgin, and after
          Assuming it, came forth from her.
          He is the one and only Son,
          with two natures, yet one person.
          Therefore, truly proclaiming Him
          to be perfect God
          and perfect Man,
          we confess Christ Our God.
          Entreat Him, O unwedded Mother,
          to have mercy on our souls.
                      -- "Tsar' nebesniey"
                         (Russian Orthodox hymn)
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