From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Childbirth
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:41:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Followup: misc.kids

In article <memo.744593@cix.compulink.co.uk>, shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk writes...
>... reading something from shava about childbirth being treated
>pathologically, and her not liking it...
> 
> 
>Again Shava, I accept your emotional stance. 

Leo, you have no idea what you're talking about.  There is a lot 
more to Shava's position than an emotional stance.  I expect she 
has thoroughly researched birthing options (as I am now doing) and 
her opinions are educated and based on facts - far more so than 
yours.

>Understand THEIR situation. Faced with a situation of even a 5%
>chance of loss of life, falling to say <1% if you use the knife, and
>faced with a potential career wrecking lawsuit if you don't follow
>'accepted medical practice' what is the doctor going to do?

Just one example, since there are dozens - the 
episiotomy.  There are 3 kinds.  1.) A cut at an angle from the 
end of the vagina to even with the anus, cutting through the 
perineum muscle AND usually the PC muscle.  (These are the 2 
major pelvic floor muscles that have to do with continence, 
tightness of the vaginal barrel, and supporting internal organs).
This method is no longer in favor due to weakening of these 2 
major muscles, especially the PC muscle.  Not much consolation to 
the thousands of women who had it and now have a fallen uterus or
pee-pee problems.  2.)  A straight cut from the end of the vagina 
to the anus.  Weakens the perineum muscle.  Often results in 
tears through the anal sphincter, and permanent weakening of this
muscle 3.) Like #2 only hooks to the side prior to the anal 
sphincter.  Weakens the perineum muscle.  Often tears in both 
directions.

In Europe the episiotomy is not done nearly as often as in the 
US.  I don't remember the stats for you, but offhand I would guess 
90%-95% of first-time mothers get an episiotomy in the US, 80% of 
other births.  In Europe I would guess that 25% of first-time 
mothers and 15% of subsequent births get an episotomy.

Most home-births attended by midwives in the US do *not* result in 
an episiotomy.  The midwife practices perineal massage and 
coaches the mother to push gently and sometimes breathe through 
contractions instead of pushing.  This results in substantially 
less tearing, and often just tearing of the skin.  Of course this 
takes longer, 15-30 minutes longer from what I've read.  Doctors 
want births done as fast as possible.  They are trained to do an 
episiotomy and often are not supportive of the mother's wish to 
avoid one.  With my doctors for example, I am very fortunate that 
my doctor knows how to do perineal massage and is willing to try 
it.  His partner on the other hand has the usual attitude that an 
episiotomy is routine and he is not willing to try other methods. 
He also says its his responsibility and decision to decide if I 
get one or not.  I disagree (and have told him so), but the fact 
is when I'm delivering he'll be able to do whatever he wants.
There is a 50% chance I will get stuck with the partner, and I'm 
luckier than most people who have to deal with a larger pool of 
possible doctors at delivery time.  At delivery women are not 
able to argue effectively so its easy for a doctor to take 
advantage and do whatever he prefers to get if over fast.  (Women 
are legally considered mentally incompetent during childbirth.)

You can't count on the nurse to do perineal massage either.  Some 
know how and some don't.  I expect they will give in to the 
doctor if he gets tired of waiting.  I am seriously considering 
hiring a doula (midwife) to also attend the birth, perform 
perineal massage, and coach me during delivery.  (My husband 
fainted during the amnio, so I need someone trained.)  That way if 
I get stuck with the partner he can just "shove it" and I at least 
will have a chance of avoiding the episiotomy.  Note: sometimes 
they are necessary, if the baby is in distress and needs to get 
out fast or if the mother simply can't push it out.

There are about a dozen other topics as controversial as the 
episitomy.  That is why many woman are not satisfied with 
obstetrical options in this country.

Please don't reduce our concerns to an "emotional stance."

>If you want a natural childbirth and are prepared to take the risk -
>then I personally feel that you have every right to do so. But please
>consider the position of any of the medical profession that you may
>need to turn to for help.

Natural childbirth is less risky than medicated childbirth 
(though I have nothing against taking the painkillers if I want 
them).  Do you mean home births?  These are screened and again I 
have no statistics, but I believe they are statistically safer 
than hospital births, (probably due to the screening).

I think you really have your head up your butt on this one Leo.:)

- Peggy -

PS:  Note followup to misc.kids
Newsgroups: alt.magick