From: urban@SIDESHOW.JPL.NASA.GOV (Michael Urban)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: Re: "Planita evoluo" [estis Re: [Anglolingvo/English] ...]
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:04:52 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

Your message dated: Tue, 18 Aug 92 13:41:52 PDT
> uunet!cobra.jpl.nasa.gov!urban (Michael Urban) skribis:
> 
> >  Any _a priori_ improvements suggested in the name of nonsexism,
> > alphabetical parsimony, or other linguistic technicality do not represent
> > evolution, they represent planning and design.  You can start a language
> > that way, but if that is your primary mechanism for evolution you do not
> > have a human language on your hands, you have a sterile imitation of one.
> 
> [Li diris, ke se oni dauxre sxangas lingvon, gxi ne estas natura lingvo]
> 
> Kompreneble, sed ecx en naturaj lingvoj oni ankaux ja havas planado.  Vidu
> en la Uson-angla lingvo, la uzado de "Ms." Antaux 20 jaroj, oni neniam vidis
> tiun formon, sed nun gxi estas cxie trovebla.  Mi opinias, ke la "in/icx"
> similas.
> 
> Angle:
> He's got a point, but even natural languages are subject to change-by-design.
> The US-English usage of "Ms." shows what i mean.  20 years ago one never saw
> this, but now it's everywhere.  I think the "in/icx" suffixes are basically
> the same deal.
> 

Nu, iomete...sed mi pensas ke `Ms'        Well, sort of...but I think `Ms' was
estis nekutima kazo.  Gxi `vendigxis'     exceptional.  It `sold' because it
cxar gxi estis malgrandega kaj            was a very small incremental change,
plus-eca sxangxo, satis vaste konata      filled a gap that was widely
bezono, kaj -- plej grave, miaopinie      understood, and -- most importantly,
-- jam estis generale uzata en multaj     I think -- already was in common use
Sudosonaj dialektoj, inkluzive de         in many Southern dialects, including
Nigrula Anglalingvo.  Kiel ajn, gxi       Black English.  In any case, it did
ne okazis pro dekreto, kiel laux la       not occur by decree, as Gilson's
original afisxo de Gilson, Esperanto      original posting seemed to think was
bezonas por sia `evoluo'.                 needed for Esperanto to `evolve'.

Sxangxo de la signifo de `patro' al       A change of meaning of `patro' from
`gepatro' (kaj la devigaj vortoj kiel     `father' to `parent' (and requiring a
`patrabo' por signifi nia `patro')        word like `patrabo' for `father')
povus okazi, miaopinie, nur per           could, I think, only be accomplished
dekreto, ne per populara movado, kaj      by decree, not by a popular movement,
mi opinias ke tiuj el ni, kiuj pensas     and I think that those of us who
ke tia sufikso estas generale Bona        think such a suffix is generally a
Ideo, devos rezigni pri manpleno da       Good Idea are going to need to
bazoj radikoj kiel `memstare virecaj'     concede a handful of basic roots as
(Hm ..  cxu ne-anglalingvaj               `intrinsically masculine'.  (Hm...do
Esperantistoj tiel forte sentas pri       non-English speakers of Esperanto
`kuzo' kiel anglalingvuloj sentas pri     feel as strongly about `kuzo' as
`frato' kaj `patro'?)                     English speakers feel about `frato'
                                          and `patro'?)


(mi ne havas vortaron cxi-tie; paciencu pri miaj eraroj)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto