From: mgrossman@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Re: DREAMLANDS GEOGRAPHY AND OTHER OXYMORONS
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:45:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.072843.28567@news.mentorg.com>, bcannard@hppcb36.mentorg.com (The Human Mi-Go) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Nov12.165819.17383@husc3.harvard.edu>, garcia@husc10.harvard.edu (Javier Garcia-Torres) writes:
> |> In article <1992Nov12.112939.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> mgrossman@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
> |> >
> |> >Or it's possible that when the corpse eating cult was driven into the
> |>      mountains
> |> >of Tibet (or wherever, and assuming they were driven), they thought they had
> |> >come to Leng, since they only had a vague description of what Leng was (racial
> |> >memories, maybe?  The elder things did keep humans as slaves).
> |> 
> |> 	Did they, though?  The only connection I recall was that the failed
> |> genetic experiments of the Elder Things( the guys who lived in that city
> |> in the Mountains of Madness) accidentally started the evolutionary
> |> processes which eventually led to reptiles, birds, and mammals.  Please
> |> correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> No, as far as I can tell they didn't. They sometimes used our prehuman
> ancestors for food or amusement - this much is recorded in the ancient
> city - but by the time true humans came on the scene the elder things
> had retreated into the sea to become sea-shoggoth chow. (Tell the truth,
> me & my friends back on Yuggoth miss the critters, they put up a good
> fight).

Yes, but the "racial memories" would still remain, buried deep in the 
group unconscious of humanity...one reason why the Elder Things and Shoggoths
are so frightening.  It's worth considering, anyway.

> 
> |> >So what made the city dissapear?  The Great Ones, maybe?  After all, they
> |> >wouldn't want explorers mucking around at the very feet of Kadath. 
> |> >They might have just asked Nyarlathotep to put them somewhere else.
> |> 
> |> 	If you mean Great Old Ones when you say Great Ones, I would think
> |> that they would simply (step on/rend limb from limb/devour) any explorers that
> |> came too close to Kaddath.  That's just in my humble opinion, though.  
> 
> The term "Great Ones" is used in the Dream-Quest to refer to the "mild
> gods of earth" who just want to be left alone and have a good time;
> "The Other Gods" by HPL gives a graphic description of what Nyarlathotep
> does to people who invade their privacy. TOG & the Dream-Quest suggest
> that once their privacy has been violated, they simply go somewhere else,
> in accord with M. Grossman's theory. The problem I have with his theory
> is that the Great Ones have a strictly Dreamlands feel to them - they're
> just too *nice* to emerge into the real world full of star-spawn, elder
> things, deep ones... and mi-gos, of course.
> 

Yes, I did mean the "mild gods of earth"...and if they're not on top of the
waking-world Kadath then who (or what) is?  I think in AtMoM there are some
references to "the carven rim" and the "proto-shoggoths", whatever these may
mean.  I think Clarke Ashton Smith wrote some stories about a being named
Ubbo-Sathla, spawner of all life...does anyone know if this might be applicable
here?

	(nice dissertation on Great Old Ones, great Old Ones, Old Ones, etc.
	deleted)
> -- 
> bob_cannard@mentorg.com			"More dynamite!" - Theron Marks


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