HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: Help stop the KKK
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:31:17 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.001441.10220@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:

>Morally, in my opinion, no one has the right to shout down those they
>oppose.

mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger) writes:

>Just out of curiosity, Mr. Kadie, would you have been as zealous in
>supporting the rights of the German Nazis to be heard in, say, 1930?

Just of of curiosity, would you have supported a Nazi "right" to shout
down those they opposed?

The Nazi's crime was violence, not speech. Also, I believe that
pre-Nazis (and, of course, post-Nazis) censorship prohibited effective
counter-demostrations. The Nazi experience is an argument against
government censorship and private suppression of speech.

>Just what _would_ you have done, if anything, to resist Nazism?

If there was free speech and they restricted their activities to
speaking, I would have counterdemonstrated.

If there was no free speech, or if they became violent, actions beyond
words would have been justified.

In any case, I don't think trying to drown out their speech would have
done the trick.

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Xref: sparky alt.activism:7539 alt.activism.d:1585 soc.culture.jewish:7835 soc.motss:19985 soc.rights.human:1355 alt.discrimination:1450 alt.society.civil-liberties:466
From: dege@cs.umn.edu (Dege Jeffrey Charles)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.activism.d,soc.culture.jewish,soc.motss,soc.rights.human,alt.discrimination,alt.society.civil-liberties
Subject: Re: Help stop the KKK
Date: 11 Apr 92 04:04:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.

In <1992Apr9.231614.17905@ucunix.san.uc.edu> schectr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (ROBB SCHECTER) writes:

>**-------------------------------------------------------------------------**
>**                                                                         **
>**                    THE  KKK  ARE  COMING  TO CINCINNATI                 **
>**                                                                         **
>**   - On May 2 (Permit reads Noon)   The KKK is planning a rally in       **
>**         downtown Cincinnati.                                            **
>**                                                                         **
>**   - On University of Cinncinati campus, we have started organizing a    **
>**         counter-demonstration.  The general idea is for it to be        **
>**         confrontational but not violent.                                **
>**                                                                         **
>**   - We hope to mass enough people to drown out any speeches, and def-   **
>**         eat any recruiting efforts the Klan will make.                  **
>**                                                                         **
>**   - Obviously, everyone going has a different idea about how to express **
>**         anti-racist convictions.                                        **
>**                                                                         **
>**   - ACT ON YOUR CONVICTIONS.  For more info, contact me;                **
>**                                                                         **
>**         Robb Shecter, Outreach Committee,     schectr@ucunix.san.uc.edu **
>**                                               P.O. Box 19671            **
>**                                               Cincinnati, OH 45219      **
>**-------------------------------------------------------------------------**
 
    I can understand and support the counter-demonstration.  When folks like
the KKK gather, it's important that somebody be there to point out how few
people agree with them.  But I question your intent on attempting to drown
out any speeches they might make.  They have every right to speak, and you
have no right to attempt to restrict that right.  Disagree with them, certainly,
I know I do, but let them speak their piece.
 
======================
 
   Extremism in the defense of liberty IS a vice.
 
Xref: sparky alt.activism:7529 alt.censorship:3234 alt.conspiracy:6254 talk.politics.misc:17788
From: c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.censorship,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUST MYTHS
Date: 10 Apr 92 12:12:00 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland

In article <1992Apr9.134310.19944@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>In article <6e9wiB1w164w@b-cpu.UUCP# pfaust@b-cpu.UUCP (Pete Faust) writes:
>#
>#                 FOREVER FIGHT WITH FACTS
># 
>#     Excerpts from THE GREAT HOLOCAST TRIAL by Michael A.
>#Hoffman II:
>
>Note how Dummkopf cites a book by a revisionists as a reliable source...
>typical slimy trick.
>
>The FACTS, of course, are completely different; Zundel was convicted
>(as other revisionists have been) of spreading lies and hate
>propoganda.

Yes, and refering to Mr. Faurisson (he is NO LONGER a professor, just a mister
today !) is something like refering to Josef Goebbels 'as a relaible and
truthful source'.

BTW, Mr. Faurisson visited some weeks ago Sweden, being invitied in by some
extremist Arabs and right-wingers. Neo-nazis ? Just guess. Einige lernen nie.

>-Danny Keren.


  ++ Tuomas Viljanen                     ++ For a battle like Crecy, you do  ++
  ++ Lahderanta 20 A 19                  ++ not need a military genius like  ++
  ++ SF-02720 Espoo 72 FINLAND           ++ Edward III. All you need is an   ++
  ++ 358-0-592175 or c34657b@saha.hut.fi ++ idiot like the Duke of Alencon.  ++
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Justice Thomas (was Socialism Security Rides Again)
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 21:31:09 GMT

In article <167C9ED20.KENH@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> kenh@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ken Hudson) writes:
>The main reason Thomas is attacked is because he was the first nominee
>to be qualified only in name...Unlike the others, he was not a long time
>scholar or Judge, and was clearly groomed to be a political conservative
>appointee to the court...In this sense he comes off as a political
>lackey, not a first rate Judicial mind...I wonder who is really racist
>here...If he were white and appointed under the same circumstances he
>would make an appropriate target:  

Like, um, say... David Souter?  (Yes, I know about his utterly
unremarkable career on the New Hampshire Supreme Court, where his main
accomplishment was to drive PSNH into bankruptcy.)

Was Blackmun ever a judge?  I don't think Warren was, though I could be 
wrong...

(A good argument can be made that Thurgood Marshall, though an astonishing
trial lawyer, was not a good scholar/judge.)
-- 
Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  hat."  -- District attorney explaining Marc Cienkowski's
U o' C Law Skool   +  murder with bow and arrow of Michael Klucznik in
Chi, IL 60637      +  Doylestown Borough, PA over a game of Monopoly.
From: philg@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Philip Greenspun)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: US Congress votes to subsidize Japanese electronics industry
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:26:50 GMT
Reply-To: philg@zurich.ai.mit.edu
Distribution: alt.activism
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.


Congress is about to pass the Audio Home Recording Act of 1991.  This
bill will tax digital audio recorders and digital audio media, create
a new Federal bureacracy to distribute the tax revenue to
foreign-owned record companies, and restrict the capabilities of
digital audio recorders so that digital-to-digital copies cannot be
made.  In addition, the bill does not distinguish between digital
media used for computer data storage and digital media used for audio
recording.  Just as consumer DAT and 8mm video tape have become the
standard high-capacity backup media for workstations/minis, it is
likely that writable optical digital audio disks will replace
today's magnetic floppy disks.  Sony and Matsushita own two of the
largest record companies in the US and would get the most money from
this bill.  Two years from now, every time American users of IBM
computers make a backup, they'll be paying a tax to help out
IBM's Japanese competitors.

Is it fair that you should pay a tax on tape that you buy to record
your own performances?  Is it fair that you'll have to pay $5,000 for
a "professional" digital audio recorder in order to use the equipment
for editing?  Is it fair that a small American company wanting to
compete with heavyweight Japanese digital audio manufaturers will have
to pay a lawyer to wade through hundreds of pages of legal
requirements, technical specifications, and administrative decisions?
Is is fair that our Congress would pass a copyright bill without
anyone even once mentioning whether it will "promote the progress of
the arts", which is the only constitutional justification for
expanding copyright?  (Since the money is to be distributed linearly
according to sales, only the biggest record companies and most popular
stars will get any significant money.)

You can stop this bill from passing.  Congress is sticking it to us
because the recording industry paid them and they don't think anyone
will notice.  CSPAN and most newspapers haven't covered this issue at
all because the bill has dozens of co-sponsors and is therefore
considered non-controversial.  If a Congressman gets even a few
letters regarding this bill, which he's probably hardly thought about
at all, it might be enough to make him think that taxing the American
public to subsidizing Japanese computer vendors isn't such a great
idea.  The bill is going to be voted on in about two weeks.  It is
called the "Audio Home Recording Act of 1991" and is S-1623 in the
Senate and HR-3204 in the House.  You can write to your elected
representatives this way:

    Senator Foo Bar
    The Capitol
    Washington, DC 20510

    Representative Foo Bar
    The Capitol
    Washington, DC 20515

If you want any more information, please feel free to contact me
(philg@altdorf.ai.mit.edu).  I testified before the relevant Senate
subcommittee last Fall as the "nerd witness from MIT."
From: freedman@bellman.lanl.gov (Keith S. Freedman)
Subject: Re: Help stop the KKK
Reply-To: freedman@bellman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:02:24 GMT

In article 10528@wpi.WPI.EDU, entropy@oconnor (Lawrence C Foard) writes:
>
>There is a solution, get a bunch of people together to track them when they
>leave, find out where they go, and publish names and photos of them without
>there hoods. I bet many of them will be to cowardly to show up when they know
>that people will find out who they are.
>
While this is one alternative, it is not generally a good thing to do.  It will serve
to upset the other members of the Hate Group and cause them to become
vengefull.  The will, typically, step up their anonymous activities.
We should also remember that many of these people are members of a Hate
Group because they couldn't find anyone to "care" about them and the 
Leaders of the Hate Group showed the new member some attention.

I have seen examples of this... Here's one:

In Durango, Colorado, there were several new initiates to the Klan.
Later, I found out that two of the members were fairly overweight women
with low self-esteem and few friends.  When they were introduced to Shawn
Slater, Exulted Cyclopse of the Colorado KKK, he showered them with
attention and convinced them that the KKK would care about them "even
though no one else did."

I guess the moral of the story is that if people are able to show others
concern, they are less likely to associate themselves with Hate Groups.

---
Keith Freedman
United Coalition Against Prejudice
freedman@ilmen.lanl.gov
From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Faust
Date: 9 Apr 92 05:39:49 GMT


WHen that jerk "Pete Faust" or whoever the **** he is (B. Smith I am
sure) reposts that ridiculous "$50,000 reward" and other worthless
garbage. Sysadms are likely to shutdown certain newgroups with high 
volume of repetative messages.  It may not cost these b-cpu dorks anything
but it *does* cost real money to the systems that receive newsfeeds.

For someone who supports free speech, the fool may get some site
to have some of their newsfeeds cut off with his pre-school antics.

Get a life fool.  You're a d*ck.

-G
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Info: Info on the FED - Rockefeller
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 15:52:49 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen):
>And finally, *nowhere* in these charts did I even _suggest_ a "Jewish"
>anything,but Chip has seen fit to lump this in there.

For those of you who came in late, my followup to Don's earlier
article consisted entirely of two sentences:

  "Don Allen believes that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are real.
   'Nuff said."

I didn't mention the word "Jewish", either, Don.  So I guess you must
have made that mental connection all by your little self.

>Might Chip be a rep for the ADL or the NZO? 

So I make one critical followup, and now I'm part of the Conspiracy.
Time for some BRUTAL REPRESSION! (tm Dave Mack)

>"A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free"  - Thomas Jefferson

Allen quotes Jefferson?  Irony can be so ironic.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
      "Informix 4GL is not a 4G, and it's barely an L."  -- John Tombs
Xref: sparky alt.activism:7251 alt.censorship:3148 alt.conspiracy:6073 talk.politics.misc:16949
From: djweisberger@amherst.edu (David Weisberger)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.censorship,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUST MYTHS
Date: 6 Apr 92 01:18:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: amherst.1992Apr5.211814.1
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA.

In article <1992Apr5.143730.22889@oz.plymouth.edu>, m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier) writes:
> In article <1992Apr5.014940.21807@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>>In article <DF4NiB1w164w@b-cpu.UUCP# pfaust@b-cpu.UUCP (Pete Faust) writes:
>>#
>>#                  SOMETHING VERY SIMPLE
>># 
>>#     Germans and we of German descent are sons and daughters
>>#of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Wagner, Haydn,
>>#Handel, Humperdinck, Johann and Richard Strauss, Berg,
>>#Webern, Hindemith, Schnittke, Goethe, Schiller, Kant, Hegel,
>>#Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, ad infinitum.  We have not gassed (a
>>#new dimension in inhumanity) and do not gas people...any
>>#people.  Those who knowingly claim we did, knowing we did not
>>#(THE TRUE WAR CRIMINALS), are being ensnared by THE UNTIRING
>>#ARM OF HISTORY.
>>
>>Yes, dumkopff, yes. I know. As a matter of fact, dumkopff, I don't
>>hate the German people. There is a German guy here at Brown doing
>>a phd and I think he is a great guy. As a matter of fact, dumkopff,
>>I happen to think that the German writers of the post WW2 era
>>are the best - Gunther Grass, Heinrich Boll, Ziegfrid Luntz. Great,
>>Great men. You should read their books, perhaps.
>>
>>However, dear dumkopff, YOU are not a decendant of Bach and Mozart,
>>neither of Goethe and Kant. YOU are a decendant of Hitler, Himmler,
>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    
>>Eichmann, Mengele and Hoess. 
> 
> Seems to me that Hitler was Austrian, not German.

Right you are.  So were Mozart, Schubert, Haydn, Johann Strauss, Berg,
and Webern, just to pull some names from the original list.  Handel is
arguably English, and Hindemith arguably American.
So I'm going to have to go with Danny Keren on this.

>  Michael Le Houllier           *  John 3:16  * Nov 12, 1991 - Dili      
>  (m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu.us) *  Remember: June 4, 1989 - Beijing

 - David

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 David Weisberger                  INTERNET:  djweisberger@amh.amherst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Help stop the KKK
From: schectr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (ROBB SCHECTER)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 21:16:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <29E710EC.26890@noiro.acs.uci.edu> cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman) writes:
>Susan Garvin writes
>> 
>> The counter-protesters also have a right to free speech. 
>> If, by exercising their right, they drown out the speech
>> of the Klan, so be it. 
>
>Would you support the same in the opposite direction i.e. Klansmen  
>showing up at all NAACP meetings and shouting so loudly that the  
>meetings could not any longer be held ? Or would you support the use of  
>the police to prevent this ? I'm certain that there is a law which an  
>ambitious DA can use to do that.
>
>	Carl Edman

   I'm not sure I understand the point..."NAACP meetings"?  KKK members
coming onto private property to disrupt a private meeting? (Which is not
the Cincinnati case.  Or are you talking about racist people trying to dis-
rupt organized civil rights speeches, acts of civil disobedience, etc, which
has happened, lawfully?

        Robb Shecter
Xref: sparky alt.activism:7399 talk.politics.misc:17412
From: mcgredo@bluto.ie.orst.edu (Don McGregor)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: AGRAN, Democracy, and UseNet (III)
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:46:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: talon.1992Apr8.204608.25907
Reply-To: mcgredo@bluto.ie.orst.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Oregon State University - Univ. Computing Services

Harel Barzilai writes
>Re the lies and hatred of democracy, here are the facts and analysis:
>
Minnesota results (78% of precincts reporting):
Larry Agran: 479    (0%)
Charles Woods: 644
Lyndon LaRouche: 361

Wisconsin results (60% of precincts):
Agran: 2,667   (0%)
Harold Stassen: 2,203 (In the Repulican primary, with far fewer voters)

Kansas Results (99% of precincts)
Agran: 149   (0%)
J. Louis McAlpine: 134
Charles Woods: 1,200

Yep, that Agran is on a roll all right.  He OBVIOUSLY deserves at least an  
hour of free air time,even though this would preempt candidates the voters  
have shown they are more interested in.

1% or less of the vote in "progressive" states like NY, Wisconsin, and  
Minnesota is not exactly a strong showing. 1% when you're running as a  
left-winger on the planet Manhattan?

(BTW, who's J. Louis McAlpine?)

--
Don McGregor             | "I like maxims that don't encourage behavior
mcgredo@bluto.ie.orst.edu|  modification"   --Calvin
Xref: sparky alt.activism:7362 talk.politics.misc:17318
From: atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: AGRAN Exclusion -- BROWN Hypocrisy
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:22:33 GMT
  <visser.702538674@convex.convex.com>
  <1992Apr6.235952.20554@eskimo.celestial.com>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

>Larouche himself is in jail, doubtless railroaded by the Powers-That-Be,
>although one wonders, since he is really indistinguishable from them, what
>they have against him.

Touche'.


   Alan T. Furman           |       Vote Libertarian--Marrou/Lord in '92
----------------------------+--------------------------------------------
   atfurman@cup.portal.com  |  Stamp out signature viruses!  Pass it on!
Xref: sparky alt.activism:7656 talk.politics.misc:18057
From: tami@niktow.canisius.edu (Tami Crawford)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: AGRAN Exclusion -- BROWN Hypocrisy
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:04:30 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <visser.702538674@convex.convex.com>, visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes:
> 	What Brown was saying is that the way candidates usually build 
> themselves up is through "solo" events.  The way you get into the media
> spotlight is to give them something to cover.....attempting to force himself

No, it's just that Brown, who was previously chairman of 
the Democratic National Committee, automatically qualifies 
as an insider who is allowed access.    

There was a panel on CSPAN which had Tom Laughlin (Billy Jack),
Lenora Furlani, and Larry Agran talking about how they
were kept out of the process.  For instance, Larry Agran said
that his campaign was called and asked, "How many states are you
on the ballot?".  His campaign worker said he didn't know but he
thought it was about 30.   The caller said, "oh, too bad.  You have 
to be on the ballot in 35 states to be included".  Well, 
later on it turned out that he was on the ballot in 37 states.
So, he assumed he would be included in the debate.  A couple
of days later, someone calls and asks,"What percentage of the vote
are you getting?".  The answer is given, and the caller says,
"oh, too bad, you have to have XX%".  What happened is that
every time he met the conditions, the conditions were changed.

This panel cited example after example of how these people
were being kept out of the process.   I don't know too much
about Tom Laughlin, Lenora Furlani, and Larry Agran,
but I certainly believe that they are being unfairly kept out
of the process.   

> 	Agran is a tiny little mayor of an insignificant city with a tiny
> sliver of support.  

Being on the ballot in 37 states is more than a "sliver of support".   

Jerry Brown doesn't like Agran because Agran points out
Brown's hypocrisy (he did this in the 2 debates where he
was included).


-- 

Name: Tami L. Crawford           | Computer Science Dept
Email: tami@canisius.edu         | Canisius College
Phone: (716) 888-2433            | Buffalo, NY 14208
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: pds@analog.ingr.com (Peter Schachte)
Subject: Re: INFO: US-Made Pollution Killing Mexican Infants
Organization: DAZIX, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 20:20:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr4.065244.28947@u.washington.edu>, pollock@milton.u.washington.edu (Joe Pollock) writes:

[In response to claim that $30 / hour to screw in the trunk latch on cars is
 too much]

> So what *do* you consider reasonable? The minimum wage?  We all know how 
> well a worker can support a family at that level.

Of course, but in the long run that doesn't matter.  US Companies are
not pgoing to pay Americans $30 per hour to do work that they can pay
Mexicans (or Koreans, or ...) $3 per hour to do.  If they do, they
will be put out of business by the Japanese or German companies who
will.  As I recall, US workers are still the most productive in the
world, but I believe we're losing ground fast.

Ultimately, we aren't going to be paid more than we're worth, whether
it's a living wage or not.  The only solution is for US workers to
be worth more.  Which makes the condition of our education system
really frightening.

-- 
-Peter Schachte
pschachte@analog.ingr.com
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Subject: Re: Unauthorized Biography of George Bush: part 10
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 06:38:27 GMT

For further information see:

Author:        King, Dennis.
Title:         Lyndon LaRouche and the new American fascism / Dennis King. 1st
                 ed. New York : Doubleday, 1989.
Description:   xv, 415 p., [8] p. of plates : ill. ; 25 cm.

Notes:         Includes index.
               Bibliography: p. [379]-397.

Subjects:      LaRouche, Lyndon H. -- Political and social views.
               Politicians -- United States -- Biography.
               Fascism -- United States.
               United States -- Politics and government -- 1981-

Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast