From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: The Gospel
Date: 13 Nov 92 02:29:18 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

Oh, for goodness' sake.

In article <CHRISTIA%92111211351713@ASUACAD.BITNET>,         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET> writes:

> Also with the Roman Catholic church.  Obviously when they say,  "Jesus is
> Divine by nature", I cannot disagree with that statement.
> But, where it counts, according to the book of Galatians, is the GOSPEL.
> If a church fails on this one, they "have NO Lampstand."  They are NO
> Church.
> Rome preaches a Gospel of "Jesus ... PLUS works."
> Paul said that anyone ... even an Angel or even himself ... who would preach
> ANOTHER Gospel ... he said "may they be Eternally Condemned."
> 
> Quantitatively, Rome and I agree on some "Christianese" god-terms, but
> qualitatively, Rome has missed the mark no worse than the Devil, himself.

 Let's have a think about this, now. What tests are we given in Scripture for
 whether someone is preaching falsely?

 The main test is the one stated in the Gospels all over the place, and by Paul,
 and by James, and probably elsewhere too: namely, by their fruits you shall
 know them. The best way to see whether a person or organisation is really
 Christian is to look at its actions.

 From this standpoint the Roman Catholic Church doesn't seem to do too badly,
 actually. In fact, probably better than most Protestant churches.

 There's the passage in 1 John 4 which says (apologies for KJV) "Hereby know ye
 the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in
 the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is
 come in the flesh is not of God". Of course this needs to be taken in context,
 as does the Galatians passage you like to quote. In any case, it doesn't seem
 to fit with your claim that the RCC is as badly out of line as Satan himself.

 Your main argument for saying that the RCC is satanic, so far as I can make out,
 is that 
> Rome preaches a Gospel of "Jesus ... PLUS works."

 Let's be careful here about exactly what is meant. 

 * If you mean that Rome says that you should do good works, and that they are 
   important, then Rome is exactly in line with the Gospels, and with Paul, and
   James, and all the rest of them. (Do I really need to provide Bible references
   for this? I will, if necessary.)

 * If you mean that Rome says that salvation in general requires good works of
   us, then again Rome is exactly in line with the gospels, and it's not as clear
   as you imagine that it disagrees with Paul. Here are a couple of references:
 Matthew 25:31-46: We all know this one. The sheep and the goats.
 Matthew  7:20-27: This one is worth quoting in full. Sorry about the KJV...
     Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith
     unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that
     doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in
     that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy
     name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
     And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me,
     ye that work iniquity.
 If this isn't enough I can try to look up some more.

 * If you mean that Rome says that our salvation is achieved not through the
   grace of God but through our works (which is very different to the last
   thing I mentioned) then of course either Rome is way out of line or you're
   saying things that aren't true. In this case I incline to the latter point
   of view, since nothing I've heard from Catholics suggests that Rome teaches
   this kind of salvation by works.

 So, I don't see the kind of evidence I think you ought to have before declaring
 the RCC to be as badly wrong as the Devil.

> Sorry to say that ... actually I am not ... I am just sad that it HAS to be
> this way for ROME.

 "actually I am not": well, then you darned well should be. You're promoting
 division in the church, you're displaying a very unloving attitude towards
 your brothers in Christ, and you're practically accusing a goodly number of
 your fellow-Christians of being in league with the Devil. (Especially if, as
 I suspect, it was you who said that the Catholic church is just a refined
 form of Satanism.) Watch yourself, St Jesse: to suggest that your fellow
 Christians are in league with the devil is to get dangerously close to the
 behaviour of the Pharisees in Matthew 12:24, and I needn't tell you what
 Jesus said to them.

> Now, I am NOT authoritative ... but the Scriptures in their 66 Canonicals ARE.
> I encourage all professing believers to take up my challenge to READ the Word
> of God in CONTEXT and compare the Gospel of the Scriptures with that of Rome.
> One can only WIN by doing so and BELIEVING the Truth.

 Do you seriously imagine that people like Eric don't read the Bible?

 Actually, I agree with you that many points of the RCC's doctrine are
 quite badly unscriptural. But to suggest that they're preaching a gospel
 that's radically unbiblical is just ludicrous.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
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