From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Like Hell He Is (was Re: Cramer is our problem too)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 05:05:49 GMT

In article <C03Kx4.K1@exnet.co.uk> s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier
Gallagher) writes:

Excuse me, but you are really *quite* mistaken on a number
of points.

>I have got yet more mail asking me to stop posting on
>Cramer threads.

I think that's the right thing for people to do, m'self.  If
you've heard from 39 people, as you say (I know I was one of
them), what are you so fixedly determined to continue?  My
supposition is that you would not do that if you really knew
what you were doing, therefore by implication, you probably
don't.

>The logic seems to be that he is not a motss issue.

He is not a *new* issue.  He has been repeating the same
rants here literally for years.  He has nothing to say that
he has not said dozens and dozens of times.  He is
pollution, not philosophy.

>Well, if homophobia and ignorance are not motss issues what
>are?

Excuse me again, but you see, you are missing the point, ...

>No, don't tell me...haircuts.....new shoes...$700 silk shirts..
>..that new Tom Cruise movie.. 

...  in a manner that suggests you have a private agenda
here, and Cramer's bilge is merely your vehicle.  For the
sake of that agenda, it appears, you are quite willing to
subject a lot of other people to still more of the same old
pollution.

There are homophobes whose antigay bigotry is so engrained
that *no* amount of arguing will dislodge it.  For those
people, it's part of their identity to be bigots.  They
would literally cease to exist if they gave it up.  Cramer
is one of those.  He's obsessed.  Why should so many people
have to endure more of it, merely to please you?  Are you
*that* important?

>Cramer is a motss 'issue'.

>                       HE TELLS LIES ABOUT US.

>I should think everyone knows about the concept of "the big lie".

Everyone knows both the general case and the Cramer
particular case.  Everyone.  It's not exactly
earth-shattering news in these parts, however novel or
interesting it may seem to you.

>Well, in ignoring Cramer you play into his hands.  

That is nearly the exact opposite of the case.  By speaking
to Cramer, you feed his ego.  He feeds on your outrage; it
nourishes and sustains his warped personality.

>Your silence indicates guilt.  Your silence indicates agreement.

Excuse me again, but you have some fucking big nerve, saying
a dumbass thing like that around here.  That's just plain
old bullshit, Xavier.  And who set *you* up as Guilt-Tripper
Royal, by the way?

>In being silent you become one of the silent majority, how
>many acts of petty spite and ignorance have been justifed in
>the name of the silent majority?

This is a sound enough principle when soundly applied, but
in the given case it is not soundly applied.  Not dignifying
Cramer's filth with a reply does not equate with silence, nor
is it condoning the kind of thing he represents.  It's
unimaginable that you would not already know this.

>Those of you who do not like Cramer in the group can use the 'n'
>key.  Just the way I will when I get bored with him. 

Very generous of you.  As long as you're having fun,
everyone else can rot, is that it?  And you give little
moral lessons on guilt and complicity.  Looked in any
mirrors recently?  Where did you learn your manners?

>Stop e-mailing me about the jerk.  (39 bits of e-mail)

You're getting mail not just *about* a jerk, but it seems
likely it will soon be mail *to* a jerk.  So don't be one.
Wise up.

>** Genius, Plumber & Madman

Not by your actions, with a leaky philosophy, and just rude.

<> Once you learn more about the ramifications of some
<> of the "PC" ideologies, you see that there are much
<> more complex issues lying beneath the surface.  When
<> you apply your solution, based on conclusions drawn
<> from surface knowledge of a situation, you get a
<> solution which, on the surface, makes things much
<> better, while in reality, does not actually change
<> anything.  In a worst case situation, it makes things
<> much much worse. -- Jeff Dauber ( dauber@sgi.com)
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss