HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm vs 40S&W - which to choose?
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:03:47 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University


	jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
## Isn't a .40S&W round closer to the specs of a 10mm?
	>I would say it is very close to .45 acp.

     You could also say that a .38 Super load with an 180 grain bullet
at 950 fps has specs close to .45 ACP, but in both cases you would 
have to include the disclaimer that you are not accountig for frontal
bullet area as a significant factor.

     If I remember right, (and I may not, so please ignore my senile 
ravings in that case)  the frontal area of a 9mm/.38/.357 is about .1
in. sq., that of a .40 or 10mm is .126 in. sq., and a .45 bullet is about
.163 in. sq.  In each case, a 180 gr bullet at 950 fps would have its own 
sectional density and its own unique ballistic characteristics.

     Hmmm.  If I were to cook up some 9mm loads with 180 grain PFPs at 
950 fps, I wonder what it would accomplish (aside from a tragic firarms
accident, I mean 8-)).   Probably nothing except a great apartment-wall
penetrator.    Even if I got both the momentum and energy to exactly 
duplicate that of a .45 ACP JHP, the terminal ballistics would be very
different because the sectional density is higher.

     My Star 30MI is tough enough for unlimited +P+
and NATO carbine ammo use, I wonder if this could work.   (I'm not about
to try it, but I might if John B. or someone said it could be done 
safely.)

Jim Del Vecchio
From: ejohnson@cs.washington.edu (Eric Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:30:58 GMT
Organization: Sarah Brady Fan Club

In article <53029@mimsy.umd.edu> jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
#In article <52962@mimsy.umd.edu> jvh@nature.berkeley.edu writes:
##Forgive me if this question has been asked, but I just got around
##to seeing "Thelma & Louise" and I just don't believe that a bullet
##from a handgun can cause a gasoline truck to explode.  It seems
##to me that the things must be thick enough to repel a handgun
##bullet or they'd be blowing up all the time.  Even were a bullet
##to puncture the tank, would it explode upon puncture?  I know in
##that case, gas would spill and another bullet could spark on something
##maybe, but on contact?  Does anyone know?
#
#It just takes one spark to ignite gasoline.  So yes, it is possible, but
#highly unlikely with only one shot.  What will never happen is a bullet
#igniting diesel.  Diesel ignites under compression, not a spark.

True, but this makes it even easier to light with a bullet -- fill a 
2-liter pop bottle a little with diesel,cap it and shake it around a bit 
to get some fumes going, stand back (way back) and shoot it. The compression
from the bullet hitting it ought to light it. I've never tried this, but
the guy at the local gun shop swears it is the neatest way to have fun plinking.

Kids, don't try this at home.. :)
-- 
begin 644 .signature
M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM
M+0I))VT@=&AE('9I8W1I;2!O9B!%2B=S('-I9VYA='5R92!V:7)U<R$@3V@@
$3F\A"FT@
From: ole@brutus.delab.sintef.no (Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:04:50 GMT
Organization: SINTEF DELAB, Trondheim, Norway.

#	I'd go for a good quality bolt action in .375 H&H Magnum, and I'd make 
#sure I knew how to use it efficiently under stress - short-stroking is a no-no,
#and bullet placement is still crucial.

Yes, this would be an excellent choice, I think.

 But you don't really need heavy artillery like this. The bulk of the
polar bears which have been shot by Norwegian trappers have probably
been taken with the 6.5 mm Krag-Joergensen, a slightly weaker version
of the 6.5 mm Mauser.  This is not a recommendation for the 6.5 mm,
just an observation that if you know where to place your bullets, it's
good enough.  If you insist on a handgun, I know that an expedition a
couple of years ago shot and killed a polar bear with a .357 magnum
without any problem.  Don't know about the load, but you should choose
something with good penetration, perhaps a 180 or 200 grain bullet
loaded to maximum velocity.

And yes, you should be armed if polar bears are a possiblity. At
Svalbard, anyone planning a trip through the area are required to be
armed by the authorities. The reason for this is that the polar bear
is a carnivore, although I know of no example of people actually being
eaten by one. ( At least two persons have been knocked down without
being eaten, the bear just knocked them down, sniffed a bit, concluded
that they were not interesting food and went on...)
From: mtxinu!pluto.sybase.com!joe@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Permanent Teflon Coatings on Gun Parts
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:30:40 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.


Has anyone any experience with guns whose friction-bearing
surfaces have had this treatment?

Joseph Weinstein  Sybase - 1650 65th Street, Emeryville Ca 94608
		  joe@sybase.com   sun!sybase!joe   510-596-3620
Disclaimer:	  This might not even be *my* opinion! I may have
		  changed my mind.
From: wa3wbu!john@uunet.UU.NET (John Gayman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Handloader #112 article sought
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:43:56 GMT
Organization: @ WA3WBU, Marysville, PA



   I'm looking for a copy of an article from Handloader Magazine number
112 entitled "Match Loads - M14/M1A". If someone has this magazine and
would be willing to make a copy of the article I will gladly pay the 
postage. Thanks. 


					John


-- 
John Gayman, WA3WBU 
UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH
From: c9e-bw@danube.berkeley.edu (Kenneth Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Pardini Fiochi guns
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:50:56 GMT


Anyone have experience with Pardini Fiochi guns?  They make several .22 target
pistols and target air pistols.  They seem to be cheaper than German target guns.  What would be a good price for .22 standard target model?  I haven't seen
one anywhere yet and don't know if they are still available.
From: asbestos@nwu.edu (Michael A. Atkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:13:33 GMT
Organization: Chaos


If you could carry fully-automatic, wouldn't a whole lot of something like
9mm do the trick?  Can a polar bear can stand up to an accurate burst from a
submachine gun?  (Full auto may not be practical for this person, but I'm
curious.) 

-- 
Michael A. Atkinson | "Why change Bush in the middle of a screw? 
asbestos@nwu.edu    |  Vote for George in '92!"

      A Libertarian, an NRA member, and a firearms owner.
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Revolver Hammer Shrouds...
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:34:20 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <52860@mimsy.umd.edu>, rrubert@netman.intel.com writes:
# 
# #From Andrew Ford:
# 
# #I do not carry any weapon with a live round under the hammer no matter how
# #many safety features are in place to prevent accidental discharge.  You can
# #get away with relying on safety features for a long time, possibly even your
# #entire lifetime, but your grandchild may be the one who is using the gun when
# #the saftey feature fails: will that child be relying on the safety features or
# #on good sense?  Safety features are *no* substitute for intelligent, cautious 
# #handling of firearms.
# 
# 
# 	I cannot help but wonder if this is a little too conservative.
# 	Having examined the mechanism on my Ruger and Taurus revolvers
# 	as well as my PPK/S I cannot see how a "safety failure" is any
# 	more likely than a direct meteor strike. If this sort of thing is 
# 	taken too far you have to start worrying about sponteanous
# 	combustion in the other chambers of the cylinder.
# 
# 	I try to rely on rules 1 thru 3 for safety. Course I do get
# 	a littel nervous about those cocked and locked folks.
# 
# 
It *really* amazes me that people will "get worried about the cocked
and locked folks" because they depend on safeties instead of not having
a live round under the firing pin AND in the same breath carry on about
how overly cautious it is to advise against relying on the "safety" of
the hammer/firing-pin block.



-- 
It's a wonderful feeling when you voted for the winner, but the time to vote for
the guy who "could win" is past: vote your conscience - Marrou/Lord in 92!
Andrew Ford INTERNET: gtephx!forda@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
            UUCP: !uunet!samsung!romed!asuvax!gtephx!forda
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotguns vs Handguns (was: Gun Recommendations Sought)
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:13:25 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <52669@mimsy.umd.edu>, by leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger):
# In article <52611@mimsy.umd.edu> lriggins@galaxy.afit.af.mil (L. Maurice Riggins) writes:
# :In article <52601@mimsy.umd.edu> bp816@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Krivis) writes:
# :|One thing no one has mentioned...  Don't use handloads for self-
# :|defense. They will make you out to be a monster in court if you
# :|ever actually have to shoot someone.
# :
# :Why?  I doubt anyone is going to distinguish my handloads of Remington JHP
# :in Remington cases from the factory ammo.
# :
# :Maurice          lriggins@blackbird.afit.af.mil (129.92.1.2)
# 
# First of all, it quite easy for a forensic investigator to distinguish
# between factory ammo and reloads.
# 
# Secondly, the prosecutor (yes, in most jurisdictions and most of the
# time,
# there will be a legal proceeding if you
# shoot someone, even if it is the most righteous self-defense) will
# make procesutorial hay out of the fact that you pursposfully concocted
# the "very deadly, evil" handloads, regardless of the acutual lethality
# of the load.
#

Truth?  Justice?  You want what?  Hahahahaha.  Seriously, though
your attorney and expert witnesses should be able to point this
out.

Around here, self-defense shootings that satisfy the police have
rarely resulted in legal proceedings. 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas More)
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 10/22
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:17:14 GMT

#Several postings mention the 10/22 in the context of semi and/or full auto
#weapons, implying (perhaps?) that some variation of this weapon is indeed
#full auto and hence on some "banned" list.  I'm being quite honest when I
#say that I don't understand the connection.  BTW, I have no interest in
#owning or operating any full-auto weapon; I just want to know how the 10/22
#fits into the discussion.

I don't believe Ruger made a full-auto version of the 10/22.  However, a
few Class III smiths have made conversions - J. Ciener comes to mind.
This would classify as an NFA weapon, subject to all NFA rules - and the
1986 machine gun ban.


#And another posting mentioned a price of $200 or so for the 10/22, yet one
#reference book I have lists its value used as around $100.  Again, am I
#missing something here?  Most firearms seem to be holding their value
#better than this.

$200 must be suggested retail.  I see them advertised on sale for like
$135 at Wal-Mart and other department stores.  The stainless version
goes for $169, dealer cost.


Rob
C08926RC@WUVMD
From: vapspgd@prism.gatech.edu (Edward Hefter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm Clip prices?
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:33:45 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


In article <53070@mimsy.umd.edu> rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (System Administrator) writes:
#How do Ramline mags rate? I've been considering getting a couple of them
#for my P85.

Well, their Ruger 10/22 Magazines were awful, but then they revamped them,
and now they work great.  I also purchased a 15-rd. magazine for my Browning
Hi-Power, and it works beautifully, also.  My father, however, purchased a
few magazines for a Ruger Mark II, and then didn't quite fit.  So, what I am
trying to say in a roundabout fashion is, there is no way to tell without
getting one and checking.  Their QA in the past wasn't that hot, but maybe
it's better now.  If you do get a bad magazine, they WILL replace it, and the
replacements seem to be OK.  Maybe they run those through QA first, or maybe
I've just been lucky.
-- 
                                Edward Hefter
                   Trying To Survive the Ga Tech Experience
                         vapspgd@prism.gatech.edu
From: spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Browning .338WM for sale
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:43:54 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <52967@mimsy.umd.edu> sisak@pa881a.inland.com writes:
#In article <51979@mimsy.umd.edu>, spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett) writes:
## Gentlemen,
## 
#What makes you think "GENTLEMEN" is appropriate here?
#
#Aren't there any female collectors out there?
#
#Just bein' a bitch,
#
-----------------------
Hmmmm.... maybe you've got something there (^:
hows this.....



Dear Collectors,shooters,hunters,etc.,

Deal of the week..

The rifle is a Browning Composite Stalker (black on black) Synthetic stock
338 Winchester Magnum
Leopold 3x9 VariX III scope
about 100-150 cases
20-30 loaded rounds

asking price is $700.00

He requests only serious inquires. If you will leave a message he will
return your call. The mans name is Scott. (714)628-9443

******************************************************************************

Dear same-groups and others,


My friend is also going to part with a couple IPSC toys for those who
have an interest in race guns.

Colt 70 series  45ACP

2 top ends (both full comp)

  #001 4th Dimension Built
--------------------------
1 major top end  --Kart barrel
1 minor top end  --Barstow Super Match barrel

gun built for Tom Kister by Paul Leibenberg
price is $3000.00  firm

=============================================

4th Dimension S.A full house steel gun  38Super
Magnesium scope mount/no scope

$2500.00 firm
=============================================

He requests only serious inquires. If you will leave a message he will
return your call. The mans name is Scott. (714)628-9443

---------------------------------------------------------



Groveling appologys if I forgot to mention anyone (^:

-Steve
From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotguns vs Handguns (was: Gun Recommendations Sought)
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:04:54 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

mbrown@convex.com (Mark Brown) writes:
# #|Kids are less likely to get in trouble with a shotgun in the house.
# 
# _ANY_ kind of gun that is kept in a house with kids should have a 
# trigger lock on it when the adults aren't around.

Another thing I find handy is to have keyed locks on the interior
door. When friends with kids drop by unexpectly it is faster and
easier to just lock the door of any room that has an unsecured
firearm in it. I bought locks for all my interior doors and they
are all keyed the same, so I only have to carry one key. Also keep
in mind that you may have other things you don't want kids to mess
with; either to protect the kids or to protect the things.

(If your mail bounces use the address below. My map entry is new.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: shopping in San Jose
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:44:08 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory


In article <52939@mimsy.umd.edu> keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla) writes:
}...Can a foreigner like
}me just walk into a California gun shop & buy things without tons
}of paperwork?

As far as I know, you can purchase anything but a gun with no paperwork at
all, apart from the usual cash register receipts and credit id's if you
buy with plastic.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@soldev.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
From: langston@convex.COM (Kevin Langston)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beretta Lovers and everybody else...
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:17:26 GMT
Organization: Convex Computer Corporation, Technical Operations

infmx!gregm@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Mitchell) writes:
#Well, *don't you know* !!!  These guys train themselves in prison
#with replica guns to reach around and pop the mag release with their
#little finger as they work the break down latch.  FBI statistics _prove_
#that most assailants are right handed.  This makes it imperative
#to mount the mag release on the left side of the gun to prevent
#total dissambly of your weapon.

    On the other hand, it may bring the "european style" magazine release
    on the 9mm P-220 and Mark-II back into style.

-- 
----      Kevin Langston               Convex Computer Corporation
------    WORK: langston@convex.com    Technical Operations
--------  AKA:  langston@frontier.lonestar.org
"We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't"
From: jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:46:28 GMT
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA

In article <53058@mimsy.umd.edu> khua@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kent Y Hua) writes:
#It is impassible to ignite gasoline truck with a bullet.  All the bullet can do
#is puncture the tank so gasoline leak out of it.  Even if you shoot a tracer
#through it it would not catch on fire.  I have seen it done.

Read my message regarding tankers.  Apparently you do not have a
commercial driver's license.  :)
--

     // JCA

 /*
 ** ARPA    : jadpc!thewall!jca@nosc.mil | "If it's SCO, it's CRAP!"
 ** INTERNET: jca@thewall.cts.com        | 
 **           jca@thewall.uucp           |     - jca@thewall.cts.com
 ** UUCP    : nosc!jadpc!thewall!jca     |        (i.e. me)
 */
From: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (System Administrator)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: FEG
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:30:45 GMT
Organization: ProLine [pro-amber]

I'm back home now and I have another question for the net.
Does anyone have any info on an arms manufacturer called FEG?
The outfit is located in Hungary. I was told that they are quality.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ProLine:  rsopicki@pro-amber         |        System Administrator
Internet: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com |                of
UUCP:     crash!pro-amber!rsopicki   |             Pro-Amber
CIS:      75146.430@compuserve.com   |           619-460-9762
From: ucsd!dcdwest!plb@uunet.UU.NET (Phil Blais)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Smoking those little orange disks
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:29:05 GMT
Organization: ITT Aerospace/Communications Division - West

In article <53251@mimsy.umd.edu> earlw@Apple.COM (Earl Wallace) writes:
#
#For the second time in my life, I went out and fired some shotgun shells at
#the trap range.  I have perhaps a total of 1 hour experience and yet I seem 
#to be smoking these disks at a much higher rate than I would have expected
#(over 70%).  Is this considered normal?  What percentage of the clays should
#be hit to be considered good?

For only having shot the game twice I'd say you're doing quite well.
Competitive trap shooters are rated (at 16 yrd. singles) either AA, A
B, C, D. Just over 70% would rank you as a D class shooter but again
for only 1 hour experience you are doing fine. Practice makes perfect
and it would appear that your well on the way. BTW to be ranked as
a AA trap shooter requires an overall average above 97%. In serious
competition A and AA shooters have to "break em all" to have a chance
to win.


#It's more fun to shoot these things out of the air than bore holes in a paper
#target...

I totally agree - thats how I got started 7 years ago.


-- 
phil blais  N6KXD (ex WD6ETL)    ITT    Aerospace Communications Division
dcdwest!plb@ucsd.edu           DEFENSE    10060 Carroll Canyon Road
						San Diego, CA 92131
						   (619) 578-3080
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 21
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:46:22 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

dickwin@sequent.com (Dick Winningstad) writes:
 
#Anybody used a Glock 21?  I'm thinking of buying one, but would like
#to hear from happy or sad users first.
#What are the advantages or disadvantages to using this gun?

I have never owned one, but I got to shoot a 21 one day.  I was 
astounded at how great it was.   First:  The same day I shot a 
variety of Glocks in 9mm, 40 and .45, I shot a Colt Double Eagle 
Officers .45, a Taurus .38 snub 85, and a Star Firestar .40.

I left that day with the impression that the 1911 style pistol 
is a dinosaur.   It was a real eye opener.  I had never been impressed
with the Glocks untill I got to handle, shoot and field strip
some.  I couldn't get over how great the Glocks were, 
especialy the .45.   The .45 weighed 26 oz, sans the 2 oz mag.  
It was super nice to shoot, and the kick was way less than either the
Colt .45  or the .38 revolver.   Susan didn't like the kick, but she
thought the .38 was far worse.   There are too many nice things about
the gun to go into now, but if you shoot one you can see.

Anyway.  I was in a daze.   

Jim Del Vecchio
From: leifv@milton.u.washington.edu (Leif Vieweg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: polar bear
Date: 10 Apr 92 02:19:05 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

With regards to handgun size for the effective takedown of a polar bear.
I grew up in Alaska, and in the past few years I've spent a considerable amount of time in the city of Barrow (that's way above the Arctic Circle for those 
who don't know).  It also just so happens that I am both a long time fan and
user of handguns.  There are two points which I would like to address:  
theory and practicality.  In theory, just about any bullet (provided that it 
has sufficient velocity) can do the lethal damage to kill a polar bear.  
Now the question is, how long will it take the polar bear to become 
incapacitated such that it does not trasform you, the shooter, into its 
evening meal?  This brings us to the practical part of the discussion.  When 
one is speaking about a polar bear, don't forget about it's great size and 
strength.  A .45 cal, 10 mm, 9mm, .357, etc. can , as I stated previously, 
take down just about any animal including the polar bear.  However, any one 
of those cal. are, when speaking practically, simply going to upset the 
animal (in the mean time it just turned the shooter to minced meat).  This
is not good.  However, never fear...both the "Public Safety Officers" (PSO,
aka police dept.) of Barrow, Alaska and myself have a cal. to fit just this 
occasion.  It would be the .44 mag.  The .44 provides both the tremendous
velocity and mass to effectively stop a polar bear.  I even asked the PSO
on my last visit about the .454 Kassul...too cumbersome and not enough 
rounds in the gun at a time was the response.  So back to the .44 cal.  PSO
said basically this:  carry a .44 magnum Desert Eagle ... it provides a gun
that shoots the right round for an effective takedown, and because it is an
automatic pistol it will hold more rounds (important to empty several rounds
into the bear so as to insure your survival) that can be shot fairly quickly.
But they did make one thing very clear... lubricate only with dry graphite,
oils and greases will freeze solid at the temps. experienced at the Arctic
Ocean... not a mistake one would want to make...