HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 06:28:04 GMT

In article <604@bongo.UUCP> you write:
>
>	Now the other way to measure the air is the amount the citizens
>whine about the air quality. No question, LA has the most whiners.

It appears the rest of the country follows Southern California's lead
on air quality issues; pollution controls on cars in the other 49 are
just coming up to Califonia's standards.  The news this year regarding
electric car development here was, well, electrifying.
  
I don't know whether or not to believe the AQMD, but they state the
air in Greater Disneyland is some great increment better than it was
15 years ago.  I can say that personally, my daily 6-mile run around
Lake Hollywood has become less difficult in the last few years when
done in the evening, perhaps indicating less smog.

If whining has contributed to our improvement, I will contribute by
whining. 
(I don't differ with your statement re whiners per se, just the
implication in the use of "whine", which usually doesn't connote
results and progress.)

Regards--
--Rob

-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
From: vicky@locus.com (Victoria Svoboda)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: General Construction
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:56:56 GMT
Distribution: la
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

I'd like to post this ad for a friend.  I've had him do some work for me,
and been pleased with the quality.

	All phases of general construction:  top end finish work, doors,
	cabinets, fixtures, lighting, plumbing.  20 years experience, 
	excellent references.

					Luke Deasy
					213/650-4445
Newsgroups: la.general
From: Mark.Perew@p201.f208.n103.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Aug 21 1992
Date: 10 Sep 92  13:47:45

In a message of <Sep 09 07:19>, Frank O'Donnell (fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov)
writes:

 >Well, my perceptions are somewhat colored by having moved around
 >within Southern California during the past decades

Might one correctly surmise that said color is mostly brown?

:-)

--- Mark Perew  Mark.Perew@ofa123.fidonet.org
--- Mark's Information Repository and Funtime Emporium (1:103/208.201)


--- Squish v1.00
Newsgroups: la.general,ca.general
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Subject: Re: LA metro
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:46:23 GMT

In article <101.UUL1.3#1@vortex.COM> lauren@vortex.COM (Lauren Weinstein) writes:

>
>The metro is being built purely on political grounds, since it
>is politically "correct" to "try get people out of their cars," even
>if the metro doesn't go anywhere they need to go!

There was also some thought given to making L.A. a "world class city",
i.e. many major cities of the world have underground mass transit.  

I agree that there needs to be a fundamental shift in public
consciousness before L.A.'s metro system has a prayer of working.
There might have to be "inducements"--credits of some sort for those
who aren't driving?

>P.S.  A Beverly Hills freeway would have been great!  It's always
>a mess getting into Hollywood from the West Side since it has to
>be done almost totally on surface streets.

I believe "if you build it, they will come": build another freeway,
and the traffic will fill it.  To capacity.  And we don't need more
traffic.
-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
Newsgroups: la.general
From: marks@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Mark Schaeffer)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Organization: The Palmtree BBS - 310/453-8726 - Santa Monica, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:53:19 GMT

Regarding smog standards, my recollection is that the trend has been toward
tougher, not weaker, clean air standards.  I think another round of clean
air standard tightening is on the way, does anyone know for sure?  
Newsgroups: la.general
From: frost@netcom.com (John Frost)
Subject: LA's Jobless.  Solutions needed!
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 04:42:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

With the most recent wave of Layoffs in the defense industry, auto industry 
and other industries it is time to look for some solutions.  With the Hughes
move to Arizona we lose not only the 2000 jobs that Hughes supported, but
up to 3 times as many service industry jobs that were supported by those jobs
at Hughes.  

We are talking about 700,000 jobs lost in California add in the 3 times 
multiplier and we are talking about recent unemployment the size of 
San Fransisco.  (larger actually, but I don't trust statistics anymore
the Mark Twain did.)  That strikes me as a huge disaster, for example it is 
also more people then were affected by Hurricane Andrew recently.  

They are getting 7.8 Billion dollars to help them rebuild, Federal 
Even that won't be enough to help Florida and Louisiana recover completely.  
What it will take them is Private response.  Groups of people pulling together
and helping eachother and others.... Ideas that bring in Money!

So what I want to try and generate is a conversation that will create a
list of ideas that chronicle suggestions on how to rebuild the economy
in southern California.  

Brainstorm.... let the ideas flow.  Let us try to steer away from critiquing
Ideas... instead concentrating on positive generation....

So in the spirit of this post here is my first list:D
1)  Re-start the WPA and CCC, etc.  
2)  Retool the Air Industry to build Mass Transportation
3)  Allow employees the chance to buy out the plant before closing it.
4)  Buy-out and convert unused Factories into multi-family living
     and working spaces... ally group of factories together to do
     business with eachother.

Inclosing I want to remind people that unemployment is a vicous spiral down
Escpecially in California where the last budget took over 60 days to fix 
because there was a 10 billion dollar shortfall of income taxes... no 
employment / no taxes / no budget / state loses fiscal standing / fewer 
investors willing to gamble in California....  etc.  

Can this be solved?
D
D
D
list of ideas to help rebuild LA's, economy.
From: melton@skat.usc.edu (Mike Melton)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: No snooker tables in LA?
Date: 15 Sep 1992 16:06:39 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: la
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

Does anyone out there play snooker? If so, do you know of
any place that has a table? I live in Manhattan Beach, and
I really haven't found any place close that even has a nice
pool table, let alone a snooker table. I greatly appreciate
any information.
From: Bob.Howard@f101.n207.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Spanish translation
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Aug 21 1992
Date: 07 Sep 92  01:35:00

Looking for English to Spanish translator of a 4-5 page article. If anyone in 
L.A. area qualified please call 818-458-8700.

--- DB 1.38/003346
Newsgroups: la.general
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Friend looking for apt.
Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc.
Distribution: la
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:46:35 GMT


An acquaintance of mine (female) is looking for an apartment in or near
West LA.  Her main requirement is that it be VERY cheap; she'll settle
for almost anything that can be locked securely and isn't infested with
vermin.  She does not want a roomate (the juxtaposition of this last
statement with the preceding one was not an attempt at humor).

Please reply via email.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
Xref: sparky la.general:671 ca.general:1242
From: lauren@vortex.COM (Lauren Weinstein)
Newsgroups: la.general,ca.general
Subject: Re: LA metro
Date: 13 Sep 92 17:35:37 GMT
Organization: Vortex Technology

Greetings.  I have to agree with those who feel that the L.A. Metro
is most likely to be a financial and ridership disaster.  The 30%
displacement projections are hogwash.  Traffic patterns in L.A.
are not centered around "downtown" but are spread throughout a vast
area.  Only a tiny portion of drivers would even be in a situation
where the metro *could* be useful to them, assuming they wanted to 
ride it.

Odds are that the effect of the metro on regular vehicular traffic will
be essentially zero, if not negative (how could it be negative?  I'll
leave that as a thought experiment for the readership for now).

The metro is being built purely on political grounds, since it
is politically "correct" to "try get people out of their cars," even
if the metro doesn't go anywhere they need to go!

--Lauren--

P.S.  A Beverly Hills freeway would have been great!  It's always
a mess getting into Hollywood from the West Side since it has to
be done almost totally on surface streets.

--LW--
Newsgroups: la.general
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Long Beach Freeway
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 00:29:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Does anyone know the "who shot John" details of how the little town
of South Pasadena has been able to prevent the completion of the
Long Beach freeway for well over 20 years, despite the strong desires
of Caltrans and most of the other LA basin citizens (including the
far larger cities of Pasadena and Long Beach) to see it finished.

And what is the current status?

Thanks;
David
Newsgroups: la.general
From: sandy@godzilla.quotron.com (Sanford Zelkovitz)
Subject: Re: LA metro
Organization: Quotron Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:14:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.145630.23643@venice.sedd.trw.com> gilmore@venice.sedd.trw.com (Larry Gilmore) writes:
>In article <101.UUL1.3#1@vortex.COM> lauren@vortex.COM (Lauren Weinstein) writes:
>>Greetings.  I have to agree with those who feel that the L.A. Metro
>>is most likely to be a financial and ridership disaster.  The 30%
>>displacement projections are hogwash.  Traffic patterns in L.A.
>>are not centered around "downtown" but are spread throughout a vast
>>area.  Only a tiny portion of drivers would even be in a situation
>>where the metro *could* be useful to them, assuming they wanted to 
>>ride it.
>>
>>
>>The metro is being built purely on political grounds, since it
>>is politically "correct" to "try get people out of their cars," even
>>if the metro doesn't go anywhere they need to go!
>>
>>--Lauren--
>
>And what is found "downtown"?  Federal offices, State offices, etc.
>The San Diego Parking Lot (405) would receive half the load if the 
>Federal offices were moved to Orange County.  See what it's like
>when the Feds have a holiday!!  Check it out next Oct 12th.
>

No thanks, Larry, our traffic in Orange County is bad enough!

>-- 
>Larry A. Gilmore             Internet: gilmore@venice.sedd.trw.com

Sandy



-- 
Sanford <sandy> Zelkovitz            XBBS
Voice: (714)821-9670   Data and FAX: (714)821-9671
....uunet!pride386!alphacm!sandy
sandy@smftst.Quotron.com (130.224.26.12)
Newsgroups: la.general
From: brihut@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Brian Hutchings)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?...  duh,
Organization: The Palmtree BBS - 310/453-8726 - Santa Monica, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 07:06:57 GMT

ever hear the term, apocryphal?...
do not let the apocryphal keep you & your bicycle out
of beautiful Mexico City & mountainous surrounds -- and
keep the dam canaries down
in the coalmines!...  of course,
it could *get* that bad,
after NAFTA.
From: jluo@pollux.usc.edu (Junhui Luo)
Newsgroups: usc.general,la.general
Subject: '86 Isuzu Impulse for Sale
Date: 10 Sep 1992 21:49:58 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: la
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

      NICE CAR FOR SALE

      '86 Isuzu Impulse

      Color: Gold
      Automatic Shift
      Cruise Control
      A/C
      AM/FM Radio/Cassette
      Power Windows
      Power Mirrors
      Power Locks
      Power Steering
      Travel Computer
      
Fully loaded, like NEW!!! Excellent Condition!!!

      Only $4690
Please call (818)458-8335 Michael Chen
Newsgroups: la.general,ca.general
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: LA metro
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 00:25:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


I once heard a talk by an MIT transportation profession, who listed
20-odd characteristics of a metropolitan area that would make a subway
or urban rail system "work." He then pointed out that L.A. met none of
them.

Sorry I can't provide any details--it was about 15 or 20 years ago, just
after they had BART about done.

Xref: sparky la.general:676 ca.general:1249
From: mludwig@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Michael Scott Ludwig)
Newsgroups: la.general,ca.general
Subject: Re: LA metro
Summary: Definition of mass transit
Date: 14 Sep 92 11:27:50 GMT
Reply-To: mludwig@ics.uci.edu (Michael Scott Ludwig)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.

compata@cup.portal.com (David H Close) writes:
=IMHO, LA had the best mass-transit system, ever, in the mid-60s (the
=freeways).  Its been downhill ever since Jerry Brown changed priorities.

Roads/freeways/etc. cannot be considered mass transit by any stretch of the
imagination because it's just as easy for a single-occupant vehicle (not a
mass of people) to use them as it is for a bus or other multi-passenger
vehicle (a mass of people) to use them.

If you want to believe that 1960s freeways were the best transportation
system that L.A. had, I won't stop you (I won't agree with you, but that's a
separate issue).  I'm only arguing against your calling such a system mass
transit.


Those people who use Carter as an excuse | Michael Ludwig
to be against Clinton are quite stupid - |
what else can you call someone who can't | mludwig@bonnie.ics.uci.edu
figure out that Clinton and Carter       |
are not the same person?                 | UCI and I don't agree on anything.
Newsgroups: la.general
From: jack@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Jack Kobzeff)
Subject: Re: LA metro
Followup-To: la.general
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:55:09 GMT

In article <BuKE6H.H6z@quake.sylmar.ca.us>, brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian
K. Yoder) wrote:

> 
> Along these same lines, I think that the quickest and cheapest ways of 
> lowering traffic loads would be to eliminate all rent control (which creates 
> housing shortages which prevents people from living where they could walk 
> to work) and eliminate most zoning restrictions which essentially do the
> same thing.  Then just increase the speed limits on the freeways to 65 mph.
> Voila!
> 
...
> All of these things make a heck of a lot more sense than building a bunch of
> expensive useless trains.
> 
> --Brian

Excuse me, am I the only one who can't see how this would help at all???
The Rent Control and Zoning issues would probably (in my opinion) have the
opposite effect, by allowing higher population densities. I also don't see
how this change would allow any large number of people to move closer to
work. SOMEBODY is living in these locations already. And as we in LA have
demonstrated, we are willing to drive a hell of a long way for the
privilage of 'having it all'. The Raise the Speed Limit is a non-sequiter,
as the traffic doesn't move at close to the current limit as it is (during
any rush period).

As was demonstrated by the Olympics in '84 and on many 'non-legal' holidays
any year, even just a few percent displacement can make a big difference.
The problem is that the growth in the area will swallow up that
displacement almost immediatly, leaving us with filled trains AND filled
freeways. The advantage of trains then is that it is far eaiser and cheaper
to add capacity to a rail system than it is to add capacity to a freeway.
An that trains can theoretically transport a greater number of people for
the amount of land used, and at a much lower pollution.  

Jack Kobzeff     (jack@jato.jpl.nasa.gov)
Xref: sparky la.general:670 ca.general:1241
From: compata@cup.portal.com (David H Close)
Newsgroups: la.general,ca.general
Subject: LA metro
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 02:35:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: ca

fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:

" Which brings up a question I've been wondering about for
" a long time.  Now and then I see stories in the Times about
" the Red Line or another component of the Metro system,
" sometimes with a map of a fairly small part of the route.
" What I'd be really curious to see, though, is something like
" a projected system map of 20-30 years hence (i.e. the whole
" kit and kaboodle).  Has anyone ever seen anything like this?

I think I've seen such maps in the Times (LA).  But I wouldn't put much
credence in them.  Government planning is an oxymoron.  What the maps tell
you is in which areas you might have trouble using property as you wish.

In a similar vein, I have a map produced by the ACSC in 1964 which shows
the projected freeway network in greater LA in 1984.  How many of you have
recently driven on the Reseda, Whitnall, or Beverly Hills freeways?  These
are just a few among many others shown on the map.  I wonder how the traffic
situation in LA might be if all these freeways actually had been built.

My personal suspicion is that the traffic projections for the LA metro are
wild-eyed fantasies.  Population density is increasing but it hasn't come
close to many other cities with lower ridership percentages.  When RAND
studied a subway along the Santa Monica freeway corridor (about 20 years
ago), they computed that it would displace about 3% of the daily trips in
the corridor.  That's less than the daily fluctuation caused by weather,
school schedules, etc.  Freeway users won't even notice it.

IMHO, LA had the best mass-transit system, ever, in the mid-60s (the
freeways).  Its been downhill ever since Jerry Brown changed priorities.

 Dave Close - Compata - Stockton, California - +1 209 467 8255 ("209-install")
  dave@compata.attmail.com | compata@mcimail.com | dhclose@alumni.caltech.edu
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Ford Mechanic
Date: 11 Sep 92 07:17:47
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: la
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org

My wife and I are in the process of shopping for a used car, and have narrowed
our models to the Ford Taurus and the Toyota Camry. We've got a Toyota
mechanic to check out a Camry if we find one. Does anyone have a
recommendation for a Ford mechanic, preferably in the San Fernando Valley,
whom they feel would be good to check out a used Taurus if we find one that
meets our needs?

Please reply via Email.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
   "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"
Newsgroups: la.general
From: gilmore@venice.sedd.trw.com (Larry Gilmore)
Subject: Re: LA metro
Followup-To: la.general
Organization: TRW Systems Engineering & Development Division, Carson, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:56:30 GMT

In article <101.UUL1.3#1@vortex.COM> lauren@vortex.COM (Lauren Weinstein) writes:
>Greetings.  I have to agree with those who feel that the L.A. Metro
>is most likely to be a financial and ridership disaster.  The 30%
>displacement projections are hogwash.  Traffic patterns in L.A.
>are not centered around "downtown" but are spread throughout a vast
>area.  Only a tiny portion of drivers would even be in a situation
>where the metro *could* be useful to them, assuming they wanted to 
>ride it.
>
>
>The metro is being built purely on political grounds, since it
>is politically "correct" to "try get people out of their cars," even
>if the metro doesn't go anywhere they need to go!
>
>--Lauren--

And what is found "downtown"?  Federal offices, State offices, etc.
The San Diego Parking Lot (405) would receive half the load if the 
Federal offices were moved to Orange County.  See what it's like
when the Feds have a holiday!!  Check it out next Oct 12th.

-- 
Larry A. Gilmore             Internet: gilmore@venice.sedd.trw.com
TRW SEDD, DH1/2849
P.O. Box 6213                Phone:    (310)764-3318
Carson, CA 90746             Fax:      (310)764-3946
Xref: sparky la.general:677 ca.general:1251
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Newsgroups: la.general,ca.general
Subject: Re: LA metro
Date: 14 Sep 92 10:51:51 GMT
Organization: Quake Public Access

In article <101.UUL1.3#1@vortex.COM> lauren@vortex.COM (Lauren Weinstein) writes:
>Greetings.  I have to agree with those who feel that the L.A. Metro
>is most likely to be a financial and ridership disaster.  The 30%
>displacement projections are hogwash.  Traffic patterns in L.A.
>are not centered around "downtown" but are spread throughout a vast
>area.  Only a tiny portion of drivers would even be in a situation
>where the metro *could* be useful to them, assuming they wanted to 
>ride it.

I very much agree.  I lived in LA for a long time before I even visited
the downtown area once.  As for those who work down there, they live all
over the place, so the trains are likely to only generate a small demand
even if everyone who could use them decided to do it. (I'm sure that if 
people don't choose to use the trains voluntarily, our fearless leaders will
force us to use them...for our own good).

One factor to temember on the other side though, is that over time, people
will tend to move to places adjacent to train routes going to their
workplaces (as you can see in older cities like Philadelphia).  This will
take years to change though.

Along these same lines, I think that the quickest and cheapest ways of 
lowering traffic loads would be to eliminate all rent control (which creates 
housing shortages which prevents people from living where they could walk 
to work) and eliminate most zoning restrictions which essentially do the
same thing.  Then just increase the speed limits on the freeways to 65 mph.
Voila!

I also like the idea of "smart lanes" which could handle 100 mph traffic
with special computer-controlled cuise controls.

All of these things make a heck of a lot more sense than building a bunch of
expensive useless trains.

>The metro is being built purely on political grounds, since it
>is politically "correct" to "try get people out of their cars," even
>if the metro doesn't go anywhere they need to go!

Amen to that!  Certain politicians and mother hens just can't stand the idea
of individual cars and no amount of argumentation or evidence will change 
their minds.  Unfortunately, they are currently empowered to spend MY money.
I HATE that!

>P.S.  A Beverly Hills freeway would have been great!  It's always
>a mess getting into Hollywood from the West Side since it has to
>be done almost totally on surface streets.

Actually, I live in Hollywood, and I avoid the surface street route by 
driving all the way over to the 10 on LaBrea.  Sure, it's out of my way,
but it's a bit faster and a lot less aggrivating than taking Sunset and
stopping every ten feet.  A Beverly Hills freeway would be a nice idea
though...a lot smarter than building those worthless trains.

--Brian
Newsgroups: seminars,la.seminars