From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Subject: Re: Israeli Loan Guarantees
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 11:12:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.134659.25728@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.203425.5994@bony1.bony.com>, jake@bony1.bony.com
>(Jake Livni) writes:
>> In article <3568@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
>aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>> >I didn't see any postings in regard to Bush's latest ploy to
>> >obtain popular support - guaranteeing the $10 billion to
>> >Israel solely on Rabin's word of freezing settlement activity.
>>
>> Actually, Rabin has already frozen the settlement activity (you must
>> have missed a bunch of postings and international news) and the $10B
>> guarantee is only on Bush's word, so far.  It seems that you have
>> reality back to front again.
>>
>
>Actually, the settlements have not been frozen unless you consider
>continued construction on settlements already under construction, a
>"freeze". Also, there have been no guarantees, indeed it has been

C'mon now, there's no use to stop buildings who are already practically
finished (only roof etc.). Thdey are "drying out" with all their force
they are frowning over building even in Jeruslaem (which they promised
they won't).

>suggested otherwise, that there will be an end to all future
>construction in the occupied territories. I take Bush's move as a
>complete and total sell-out of the Palestinians; they are for all
>practical purposes "screwed". In my opinion, Bush's only salvation would
>be to pressure Israel to change its internal policies as follows:

Haven't you heard of "Internal affairs" or "soverignty" - for the nth
time: Israel is not America's puppet.
Americans can expect influence but not submission.
 
>1. Stop the deplorable policy of indefinite and perpetual detention of
>people without formal charges. As it is now, Israel can hold people for
>up to six months in prison without ever bringing charges on them and
>this arbitrary detention can be carried out numerous times.

This is inde a very cruel measure but you cannot ignore the circumstances
that this is done in, i.e. continuous Terrorism in mass proportion.
Just yesterday an Arab family was hurt very hard from a Molotov
cocktail thrown at them in Jenin (they were visiting relatives and
mistaken for Israel because of their license plate).
the situation is far from peaceful and trying to wrestle Israel's arm
is useless as long as the Intifada continues.

This could be a very ggod Idea if the Arabs will declare a cease-stone
in the intifada for the negotiations.

>2. Either eliminate Israel's law of return or amend it to recognize the
>historical national presence of the Palestinians in the land that is now
>considered Israel. The law as it is written is racist and
>discriminatory; a Palestinian who was born in what is now Israel has no
>right to return to the land of their birth while a Jew who has never
>seen Israel has such a right!

This is blatant intervention, Israel will not change its law of Return
to include Palestionians - We will not accept 4 million Plaestinians
(many of them are not really Palestinians , they immigrated to
Palestine from all over the Arab world - Sudan, Syria, Egypt, Iraq
We cannot accommodate all the Arabs in Israel).
The Law is nationalisdtic (at most) - there is no racial specifications
only religious (which in the Jewish case is actually national).

>3. Make discrimination in business and legal policy illegal.
>

Could you specify what practices exactly?

>These are all things that Israel should act on without regard to its
>neighbors. These are matters that strike at the very heart of the claim
>that Israel is democratic and respectful of human rights. These are
>matters that require no negotiation with Israel's neighbors. They are
>unilateral policy changes that Bush and future presidents should firmly
>urge Israel to make before agreeing to extensive cooperation with
>Israel. Without requiring these changes from Israel, our presidents make

I guess that Israel is the only focus of Human rights problems in the
Area - or is it the only one that will listen because of its higher
standards? I think that similar pressure must be excised on other allies
of America in the region: Kuwait, SA, Egypt (yes, Egypt can you cooment
on the Egyptian practices and TORTURE of Muslim opposition?).

>asses of all Americans when they publicly declare "our" friendship with
>Israel while criticizing the human rights violations of other countries
>and their lack of democracy.
>
>I pray for the Palestinians. Bush and Rabin have agreed together to
>perpetuate their status as second-class people. While Bush may think
>that he has taken this action to win votes, he certainly has lost mine.
>
>Brad Hernlem (hernlem@che.ncsu.EDU)
 
David.
-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast