HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (S. A. Modena)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: perplexed
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:31:51 GMT
Organization: Crop Science Dept., NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695-7620

Networking involves sharing the power pie, even in biology.
-------------------Cut Here------------------------
>From @ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu:WISENET@UICVM.BITNET  Thu Sep  3 14:40:55 1992
>Message-Id: <9209031840.AA112960@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
>Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:03:18 -0600
>Reply-To: Women In Science and Engineering NETwork <WISENET%UICVM.BITNET@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu>
i>Sender: Women In Science and Engineering NETwork <WISENET%UICVM.BITNET@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu>
>From: "Brigid A. Rea" <BAREA%RCAMNL.WR.USGS.GOV@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu>
>Subject:      department policy
>X-To:         wisenet@uicvm.uic.edu
>To: Multiple recipients of list WISENET <WISENET@UICVM.BITNET>

I have a couple of questions that have perplexed me for quite some time, that
I thought might generate some good discussion on this net.  It involves
telling a short story first though, so please bear with me.

Several years ago a male graduate student friend of mine was telling me about
a policy in his department which required one of the student representatives
to faculty meetings be female and one be male.  I thought it sounded like a
good idea, but he thought it seemed unfair.  His argument went something like,
"when you want a doctor, don't you want the best doctor around, not just the
best of a certain group?"  I replied that representation to the faculty
meetings was certainly not as critical as open heart surgery, and that the
policy gave a chance to a group that was often overlooked or discriminated
against.  (At the time I was under the impression that women needed this
"rule" in to help secure a place where they could meet and interact more
closely with faculty, but after serving on a number of volunteer committees
since then, composed largely of females, I see that I may have fighting this
fight for the males!)  To counter my argument, my friend told me that the
department had a very large Asian fraction, and wouldn't it be better, then,
to have representation based on nationality or some other similar division?  I
told him that I thought that would complicate things when an easy, and
seemingly fair (to me) division of two spots was male and female.  I think I
came close to opening this persons eyes to the need for sometimes forcing a
particular mix of representatives.  I was never too comfortable, though, with
my final argument.

So, my questions: Is the policy of this department fair? necessary?  And, in
my zeal to get a fair shake for women, was I being closeminded to the needs of
other minority groups?

Seems like a complex problem -- any thoughts on this?

Brigid
barea@rcamnl.wr.usgs.gov
----------------------Cut Here--------------------
From: ZEAGEN@BIOTECHNET.COM
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: "Carot newsgroup..."
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:44:10 GMT
Distribution: bionet



I am in favor of establishing a carotenoids electronic newsgroup
for several reasons. The establishment of such a group would be of
great assistance in disseminating the most current information in
this rapidly changing area of research. As examples, analytical
methods for carotenoid determinations as well as investigations of
health effects of carotenoids change on a day-to-day basis. The use
of E-mail would also allow a greater degree of collaboration for
the validation of methods, etc. as well as contributing to an
overall understanding of carotenoid chemistry.

                         Richard D. Medwid, Ph.D.
                         ZeaGen, Inc.
From: kristoff@GENBANK.BIO.NET (Dave Kristofferson)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: NAR article on BIOSCI
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:53:34 GMT
Distribution: bionet


I have just been told that the article on BIOSCI has appeared in the
latest NAR (sighted somewhere in Europe).  I haven't received my issue
yet.  If someone would please send me the reference (issue and page
numbers only), I'd greatly appreciate it.  Please tell your non-user
friends about this article.

I'd like to thank Dr. Richard Roberts on the NAR editorial staff for
helping us get this article in print.

				Sincerely,

				Dave Kristofferson
				GenBank Manager

				kristoff@genbank.bio.net
From: afc@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: bionet.bionette or bionet.women ?
Date: 8 Sep 92 09:57:16 -0500
Distribution: bionet

In article <3832@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>, masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:
> In article <zxmkr08.715537023@mailserv> zxmkr08@mailserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Cornelius Krasel) writes:
>>
>>Well, when I read the name "Bionette" the first time, I thought of something
>>connected with Netiquette... I guess I would have had a look though (just
>>because of curiosity) but I NEVER would have guessed the purpose of this
>>newsgroup from its name.

I agree totally.  I would have put it in my kill file immediately.

>    This is the very point that the name "bionette" is worth.
> If you could guess the results of a research project easily, how much 
> would you be interested in it? Being more curious than others (true?),
> we scientists are attracted something more amorphous, more obscure and more
> unpredictable (though sometimes curiosity kills 8-)).

When I subscribe to the Journal of Molecular Biology, I expect articles
on molecular biology.  When I subscribe to bionet.plants, I expect articles
on plants.  Names should mean something.

>    The word "bionette" with a poetic and mysterious sonance might attract
> more attention and could potentially increase the number of readers and
> contributors. 

Flame on:

Why not just use random names for all newsgroups?  We could name this
one alpha.centuri- I'm sure that no one would guess that it had something
to do with biology.  

The purpose of newsgroup names is not to be poetic, cute, or entertaining
(though these are not necessarily bad); it is to convey information about
the newsgroup topic.  "Bionette" is a *bad* name because it does not convey
that information, although it is cute and entertaining.

Flame off.

I have subscribed to several newsgroups with similarly misleading names.
They tend to have high noise/signal because people that would be interested
never subscribed, and people that are not interested post extraneous
messages.  This is a good prescription for a dead group.

Andrew Cockburn
From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Newsgroups: bionet.general,alt.flame
Subject: Re: bionet.bionette or bionet.women ?
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:03:05 GMT
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center

In article <1992Sep8.095717.1637@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> afc@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu writes:
>In article <3832@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>, masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:
>> In article <zxmkr08.715537023@mailserv> zxmkr08@mailserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Cornelius Krasel) writes:
>>>
>>>Well, when I read the name "Bionette" the first time, I thought of something
>>>connected with Netiquette... I guess I would have had a look though (just
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>because of curiosity) but I NEVER would have guessed the purpose of this
>>>newsgroup from its name.

>I agree totally.

   No, you don't.

>I would have put it in my kill file immediately.

   This is what makes you different from Mr. Krasel. 

>Names should mean something.

   I agree.

>Flame on:

   Please, note the crossposting and look at the Followup-To.

>Why not just use random names for all newsgroups?

   Because there are groups not intended for "curious" scientists 8-).
If you are talking about BIOSCI, the answer is, "DK may not be happy to
see that happen." 8-)

  Serious mode on: We have rules in naming in the USENET. <Serious mode off>

>  We could name this
>one alpha.centuri- I'm sure that no one would guess that it had something
>to do with biology.  

  No, no. You can't. We are in the bionet now.

>The purpose of newsgroup names is not to be poetic, cute, or entertaining
>(though these are not necessarily bad); it is to convey information about
>the newsgroup topic.

  The purpose is probably both.
  
>  "Bionette" is a *bad* name because it does not convey
>that information, although it is cute and entertaining.

 This is the very point that I cannot agree to, and probably we have 
receptors of different kinds. Analytically saying, I could guess that
bionet.bionette with the suffix "-ette" might be related to something
feminine not to mention that it is a group for biology. 

>Flame off.

  Oh, you don't have to...

>I have subscribed to several newsgroups with similarly misleading names.
>They tend to have high noise/signal because people that would be interested
>never subscribed, and people that are not interested post extraneous
>messages.  This is a good prescription for a dead group.

  As I understand it, you can propose renaming whenever you think the name does
more harm than good. If the group is finally opened under the *bad* name 
"bionet.bionette" after a long winding road, I'll be looking forward to seeing 
your proposition.
Or would you not subscribe being misled by the name? 8-)

  Anyway, let's wait for the result of the vote.

Michiaki Masuda
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: CALL FOR DISCUSSION: bionet.carotenoids
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:48:42 GMT
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Original-To: bioforum@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <9288181015.MIN-LZRBa20156.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you write:
: I would suggest that the "...photochemistry, spectroscopic properties, and
: roles in photosynthesis"  be added to the list of items on carotenoids to be
: discussed as set forth in the purpose statement for this discussion group.

Why not discuss these topics in bionet.plants?

Or, is it more interesting to discuss the creation of news groups than
to actually use them ?

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751
From: kristoff@GENBANK.BIO.NET (Dave Kristofferson)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: bionet.bionette or bionet.women ?
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:55:37 GMT
Distribution: bionet


>    BTW, how long will this discussion on naming keep going? As a male scientist
> surrounded by three female colleagues, I've been waiting for the opening day
> in order to understand more of female scientists' point of view. There may be
> other netters who are in real and urgent need of this kind of group, too.
> Would it be possible to let this new group go before someone starts to say,
> "those indecisive and irresolute attitudes of women...", "those women who
> want to have it perfect from the beginning...", etc.?
>        
> Michiaki Masuda
> Laboratory of Molecular Oncology
> National Cancer Institute
> Frederick, MD 21702-1201
> U.S.A.   

I put out an announcement from Cassandra Smith on
BIONEWS/bionet.announce two days ago which requested that people send
their name suggestions to her at 

clsmith@ux5.lbl.gov

by Sept. 8th at the latest.  She will review the suggestions and
contact me with the final name (which might still be bionette for all
that I know 8-).  There is no need for further discussion on the
newsgroups unless one feels the need to sway public opinion on this.
Since Cassandra took the initiative to propose the group and
volunteered to lead the discussion, this should be her prerogative.

				Sincerely,

				Dave Kristofferson
				GenBank Manager

				kristoff@genbank.bio.net


P.S. - for those of you who might not look at BIONEWS/bionet.announce
my suggestion is that you do so regularly.  In fact I would go as far
as saying that BIONEWS/bionet.announce should be essentially mandatory
reading for all BIOSCI/bionet readers.  It is designed to be a
low-volume forum for announcements only and will take only a minute or
less to peruse on a daily basis.
From: FRANK@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (Harry Frank)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: CALL FOR DISCUSSION: bionet.carotenoids
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:41:06 GMT
Distribution: bionet

I would suggest that the "...photochemistry, spectroscopic properties, and
roles in photosynthesis"  be added to the list of items on carotenoids to be
discussed as set forth in the purpose statement for this discussion group.

Harry Frank
University of Connecticut

Newsgroups: bionet.general
From: kristoff@GENBANK.BIO.NET (Dave Kristofferson)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: "Carot newsgroup..."
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:19:15 GMT
Distribution: bionet

> 
> 
> I am in favor of establishing a carotenoids electronic newsgroup
> for several reasons. The establishment of such a group would be of
> great assistance in disseminating the most current information in
> this rapidly changing area of research. As examples, analytical
> methods for carotenoid determinations as well as investigations of
> health effects of carotenoids change on a day-to-day basis. The use
> of E-mail would also allow a greater degree of collaboration for
> the validation of methods, etc. as well as contributing to an
> overall understanding of carotenoid chemistry.
> 
>                          Richard D. Medwid, Ph.D.
>                          ZeaGen, Inc.
> 

Discussion ended and the call for votes went out on bionet.announce
this AM.

				Sincerely,

				Dave Kristofferson
				GenBank Manager

				kristoff@genbank.bio.net
From: samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (S. A. Modena)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Antonio's numeric domain address, please
Date: 10 Sep 92 02:19:13 GMT
Organization: Crop Science Dept., NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695-7620

This is addressed to Antonio:  AMOLINA@cica.es

My mailserver has absolutely no idea that you are in Espana.
May I make a suggestion (knowing that others also can not reach your
address over InterNet)?

Ask your system administrator what your NUMERIC InterNet address is.
For example,  there are two ways to address mail to me:

		nmodena@post.cc.ncsu.edu
                nmodena@152.1.10.14

That second *numeric* address is absolute routing information ...if
the destination machine is running, it will receive the mail.  On
the other hand, though SYMBOLIC addresses ("cica.es", for example) are
actually preferred for operational reasons, they occasionally
fail.  Why?  Because there must be a machine in UseNet-Land that 
knows how to translate "cica.es" into a numeric address....and
from where I stand (a major InterNet Hub) that is not happening (SHAME
ON THE EUROPEAN NAME SERVERS).  ;^)

So, Tony, ask you system administrator what your numeric address is
and put it right under you signature, everytime.  :^)

Hope this helps out.

Steve
---
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|     In person:  Steve Modena     AB4EL                           |
|     On phone:   (919) 515-5328                                   |
|     At e-mail:  nmodena@unity.ncsu.edu                           | 
|                 samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu                |
|                 [ either email address is read each day ]        |
|     By snail:   Crop Sci Dept, Box 7620, NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
         Lighten UP!  It's just a computer doing that to you.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
From: ar354@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jason Perusek)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: RPG GAME! FULLY TESTED $25
Date: 12 Sep 92 23:53:15 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Brochure says.
 
 
                             Bio - Tech
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         but challenging enough for the expert
       o a 17 page adventure
       o Federation startships stats
       o Sections describing Command Functions and starship facilities
       o Galactic Federation regulations
       o a regular and combat glossary
       o a Bio-Tech timeline
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ar354@Cleveland.Freenet.edu for further information, prices, costs,
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-- 
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Snap Snap :)
                                  CFN: AR354@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU
                                  YFN: NOT THE ABOVE :) OF COURSE.
From: ZEAGEN@BIOTECHNET.COM
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: "Carot. Newsgroup..."
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:47:10 GMT
Distribution: bionet

WPCA@~~~~~~~~~~HP LaserJet IIID (Additional){                doc                 oup
for several reasons. The establishment of such a group would be of
great assistance in disseminating the most current information in
this rapidly changing area of research. As examples, analytical
methods for carotenoid determinations as well as investigations of
health effects of carotenoids change on a day)to)day basis. The use
of E)mail would also allow a greater degree of collaboration for
the validation of methods, etc. as well as contributing to an
overall understanding of carotenoid chemistry.

A
From: samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (S. A. Modena)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: cutting the pie right down the middle
Summary: another view on how to settle the "oppression" issue
Date: 10 Sep 92 02:40:04 GMT
Organization: Crop Science Dept., NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695-7620

-------------------------Cut Here-------------------------
>From @ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu:WISENET@UICVM.BITNET  Tue Sep  8 15:20:57 1992
Message-Id: <9209081920.AA100689@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 11:47:26 MST
Reply-To: Women In Science and Engineering NETwork <WISENET%UICVM.BITNET@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu>
>From: phoebe <AZPXS%ASUACAD.BITNET@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu>
Subject:      Re: department policy
To: Multiple recipients of list WISENET <WISENET@UICVM.BITNET>
              8 Sep 1992 13:14:54 -0500 from <mmurrain@HAMP.HAMPSHIRE.EDU>

in reading about the discussions regarding department policies and
representation, a book i read a few years back was brought to mind.
its by mary hawkesworth and it is called 'beyond oppression.'  she
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
argues we should mandate 50% of all representative groups and parties
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                 ^^^^^^^
should be women.  so, we should have 50% of our congress, the presidental
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
cabinet, on down to the local school board.  your discssions reflect
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
some of the critiques that have been leveled against her position--
ie, what about nationality, socio-economic class, etc.  those of you who
are struggling with this issue might take a peek at her book as well
as the book reviews and critiques of...

Phoebe M. Stambaugh               phone:  602-243-3607
The School of Justice Studies     FAX:    602-965-9199
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
              ^^^^^^^
ASU-Tempe, AZ  85287-0403         E-mail: <azpxs@asuacad>

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From: maryelen@hfx001.nstn.ns.ca (Mary Ellen)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Databases? Telnet/FTP Sites?
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:36:09 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Industry Science & Technology Canada


Does anyone out there know of any Internet-accessible resources dealing with 
agriculture, farming, fisheries, or forestry?

Please e-mail (preferred) or post responses.

AtDhVaAnNkCsE

Mary Ellen Foster
MARYELEN@hfx001.ns.istc.ca
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: bionet.bionette or bionet.women ?
Date: 9 Sep 92 09:39:15 GMT
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Original-To: bioforum@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <9289044136.MIN-LJVBa20156.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you write:
: [...]
: When I subscribe to the Journal of Molecular Biology, I expect articles
: on molecular biology.  When I subscribe to bionet.plants, I expect articles
: on plants.  Names should mean something.

Are you citing bionet.plants as a good or bad example ?

: [...]
: I have subscribed to several newsgroups with similarly misleading names.
: They tend to have high noise/signal because people that would be interested
: never subscribed, and people that are not interested post extraneous
: messages.  This is a good prescription for a dead group.

In a 'good' newsreader the group name is displayed along with a one
line description of the group.

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751
From: T80SMS1@NIU.bitnet
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: RE perplexed
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:59:00 GMT
Distribution: bionet

>From: samodena@CSEMAIL.CROPSCI.NCSU.EDU(S. A. Modena)
>Subject: perplexed
>>From: "Brigid A. Rea" <BAREA%RCAMNL.WR.USGS.GOV@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu>
>>Subject:      department policy

>>So, my questions: Is the policy of this department fair? necessary?  And, in
>>my zeal to get a fair shake for women, was I being closeminded to the needs of
>>other minority groups?
>>Seems like a complex problem -- any thoughts on this?

To breifly summarrize the issue, the question had to do with
designating slots on committees to set numbers of males vs females
vs other minorities.  Central to all such efforts is the notion
that such a stratified sample ensures a greater diversity of
opinions and viewpoints than a simple random sample would.  The
necessity of it depends on whether those who are not a member
of some perceived category are incapable of adequately presenting
the viewpoint/needs of that group.  As an avowed XY feminist I
do take umbrage at such suggestions.  The other question is
whether ALL viewpoints and needs can be assured representation
by other pathways such as formal or informal queries to
committee members.  The ultimate result is to have all
committees as committees-of-the-whole, clearly an unworkable
solution.

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