From: SKAPUR@CCMAIL.SUNYSB.EDU (Sanjay Kapur)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: General POSIX information
Date: 11 Oct 92 16:33:09 GMT
Reply-To: Sanjay Kapur <skapur@ccmail.sunysb.edu>
Organization: State University of New York, Stony Brook

>On machine readable:
>
>Machine readable copies of the standards, in any form are currently
>not available.  Period.
>
>   Reasons:
>   a) Document integrity.  There is a real risk (in that apparently
>      it has happened) that slightly modified documents are passed off
>      as the "real" standard.  (Although not impossible, it's harder
>      with paper, and more blatantly illegal.)
>
>      Secondarily, when you obtain a copy how do you know, for sure,
>      that it hasn't been tapered with?  You'd have to have some 
>      trusted source.  (Particularly critical for purchasing litigation.)
>
>   b) Loss of income to ISO or IEEE (although an important reason, 
>      cynicism aside, it is less important than the first.)  Without
>      that income, IEEE would be able to progress the standards process
>      forward.  Much of the development process is "free" to the IEEE
>      volunteers who do the work (for example, editorial support, 
>      much of the balloting process, and lots of logistical support).
>      This is supported by sales of the document.  Ditto ISO.
>
>   Nevertheless it is being investigated as a recognized need, and if
>   the problems above can be dealt with, some form of machine readable
>   will be available in the future.
>

How about distributing them on CD-ROM?  Both the above concerns will be 
satisified.  With costs under $2/CDROM for production runs of more than five 
hundred discs, All the standards could be distributed on one CD-ROM monthly.
Paper distribution could be abandoned altogether.

With productions costs low and a standardized distribution procedure (everyone 
gets all standards so bookeeping costs are low), the standards would become 
more affordable, everyone who needs to could buy one and with the larger 
volume of sales, IEEE and ISO can make more money selling them.

I sincerely hope someone has researched the costs and benefits of CDROM 
distribution of IEEE and ISO standards.

As far as tampering is concerned, I strongly believe it is a big bugaboo and 
is not worth even discussing.  Anyway, wide distribution would squelch 
tampering.  Internet standards have (to my knowledge) not been the subject 
of tampering because there exist authoratative, trusted and easily available 
sources for getting them online.  Only difficult to get standards (like IEEE 
or ISO standards) are subject to tampering.

Has anyone investigated the Internet method of funding the standards procedure 
and its feasablity for application to the IEEE procedure?

Call me a cynic, but I do not believe that members of IEEE or ISO standards 
procedure process are really interested in encouraging standards.  If they 
were, the standards would be much more "freely" available and easier to apply.
They are really interested in the perks, privileges and travel that 
accompanies the standards procedure and are afraid of loosing them.  Meeting 
in expensive hotels is more fun than discussing subjects in open electronic 
mailing lists.  It is also easier for large companies to make deals and 
compromise standards and make them incomprehensible in a closed setting.  

Also, under the current procedure for making standards, the price of entry 
into the standards procedure is high as only the richest institutions and 
companies can afford to send employees frequently and regularly to meetings.

  Sanjay Kapur    (SK54)              |Internet:    Sanjay.Kapur@sunysb.edu
  Systems Staff, Computing Services,  |Bitnet:      SKAPUR@USB
  State University of New York,       |SPAN/HEPnet: 44132::SKAPUR
  Stony Brook, NY 11794-2400        |Phone:+1-516 632 8029, FAX:+1-516 632 8046


Newsgroups: comp.os.vms