From: smayo@wang.com (Scott Mayo)
Subject: Re: The Warnke Debate
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 19:40:38 GMT

morgan7@carina.unm.edu (christopher c lewisair) writes:

>About a year ago, I had a friend who was a witch. Although I don't agree
>with anything he had to say about theology or his supposed "powers",
>I do think that they are harmless. They are very concerned with
>hurting other people and completly oppose any kind of offering to their
>gods that is the result of pain or force. They also are pretty open to
>allowing anyone , even born-again Christians, to watch their meetings
>to verify this.

>Most of these people who are witches have a number of simple reasons for being
>witches. They usually come from VERY devoutly religious backgrounds, are
>usually very emotionally and somewhat physically and sexually abused by their
>parents. They have rejected Christianity due to the painful childhoods,
>and wanting to continue in some sort of spiritual channel. Their devotion
>to this silly religion usually does not last too long, at most a few years.
>And they welcome proselytizing from BAC's, I think because it proves to
>them that they are right or "safe from Christian influences.
>These religions come about usually in times of great social upheaval,like
>what is going on now, and usually disappear once the Church gets its act
>together and eventually incorporates them back in.

I currently have an email friend who is a witch. (She might contest "friend"
but we've had long, interesting, and mostly friendly discussions about her
beliefs and mine [which are Christian]). I also hang out in alt.pagan to see
what sort of things are afoot in the nonChristian part of the world. On
the basis of this massive exposure (that's sarcasm, folks) to neo-paganism and
other non-Christian beliefs, I think I'd better clear up a misconception
that is forming here.

Satanists worship Satan, explicitly. There is nothing ambiguous about their
beliefs - they want Jesus forgotten or mocked. Their beliefs are fairly
well defined - just take Christianity, and invert - but it is *very* hard
to know how many real Satanists there are in the world, because they tend
to be somewhat secretive about their activities. I've never met one. I
do know one ex-satanist, and he advises me not to underestimate
them. Alt.satanism exists as testimony that there are some out there, but for
the most part it isn't easy to judge if Satanism is even a real threat to
society. Most kids into Satanism are just that - kids "into" something. Their
attitude is plenty enough to damn them, but is usually so bizarre and
ineffectual and based on personal rage that in the end it is probably more 
self-defeating than anything. 

On the other hand, modern day Witches do NOT tend to be Satanists. It is
a different movement. We can argue that they serve the same lord
as the Satanists, but *they* do not recognise this. They are part of the
neo-pagan movement, call themselves (for the most part) Wiccans, and, in
my tiny experience, have a completely different profile than your "typical"
Satanist. It is much harder to categorise neo-pagan beliefs, because if you
put three neo-pagans in a room you have representatives of three different
religions. For the *most* part they think themselves good folk, doing
harmless or beneficial magic and exploring the powers of the mind. They
resemble New Agers in some ways, but with a big difference in emphasis.
The Unitarian church gives the neo-pagan movement open support. If I
*had* to categorise a neo-pagan, I'd say that, rather than than being filled
with hate, as a Satanist is, a neo-pagan is filled with pain and usually a
bad memory of Christianity fostered by something stupid done in some church
that should have known better. Neo-pagans have very mixed feelings about
Satanists - some say they should be included as neo-pagans (as a fringe
group) and most say they should not.

Don't mix them. Neo-paganism is a growing, open, oft-times public movement,
with a mixture of gods (or sometimes none at all), lots of self-as-god stuff,
mixing spiritualism and humanism in a way I often find scary. Satanism
is a distinct movement with a single god and I find them more pathetic
than anything else. But don't call Neo-paganism a silly religion. These
folk are hurting and looking for something, they are typically bright,
and often have sad pasts. If they weren't so intent on looking for answers
everywhere but at the cross of Jesus they'd be filling the pews.

obsChristianmusic: I think Warnke has made some major mistakes, but I don't
yet get the impression that he's on the side of Hell. I thought his
answer was well stated. Time will tell. Keep your eyes on Jesus, not on
him, in the meantime.
--
"As sensitive and broad-minded humans, we must never allow ourselves to be
in any way judgmental of the religious practices of other people, even when
these people clearly are raving space loons."		Dave Barry
smayo@wang.com