HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: "Safety violations..." continuation...
Date: 12 Oct 1992 17:09:10 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <1992Oct11.060948.18639@nntp.uoregon.edu> davidw@cie.uoregon.edu (David Weingarten) writes:
>when it says "water hours" under the NAUI required minimum, does that mean
>pool only, or pool and open water combined? 

The minimum number of hours (it's either 17 or 18) is for *combined* 
pool/confined water/open water.  The only classes these days that I would
expect to have that many pool hours would be college classes taught over
a quarter or semester.

On a more general note:

It's clear that you and this instructor have a personality conflict at 
the least.  There may be issues of her conforming to NAUI standards, but
this (rec.scuba) is simply not the place to try this case.  There are 
many reasons why this is an inappropriate forum for this argument, not
the least of which is that we are only getting one side of it.

By all means, contact Dennis Graver, and let him hear your side of the 
story.  It is his job to listen to both of you, and decide what action,
if any, to take.

Regards, Lee
From: maslak@unix.SRI.COM (Valerie Maslak)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Dolphin Experience
Keywords: dolphins, snorkelling
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:09:41 GMT
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, California

In article <1992Oct16.170915.4167@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu> jeanb@ldgo.columbia.edu (Jean Beagan) writes:
>Can anyone help me?
>I recall reading an article from this newsgroup about a week or so ago
>about a place, I believe in the Bahamas, where you can swim, snorkel or
>dive with dolphins. I don't remember the exact name, but I thought it
>was something like the "DOLPHIN ENCOUNTER". The article had included
>a toll free number that one could call to obtain additional information.
>If you have heard about this place or any others, specifically in
>Cozumel, Grand Caymans, Jamaica or the Bahamas, can you please respond
>through the newsgroup.
>Thank you.

The place you're looking for in the Bahamas is called UNEXSO, and
they're located in Freeport/Lucaya, on the island of Grand Bahama.
They are a very reputable outfit and well respected in the Bahamas
dive community. They have a variety of dolphin experiences
available.

Try calling 1-800-5551212 and asking for UNEXSO.

Valerie Maslak
From: craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Nitrox for safety?
Date: 14 Oct 92 14:26:38 GMT
Organization: AT&T / NCR Canada Ltd., Toronto, Canada

In article <1992Oct13.142531.12448@cs.su.oz.au> gregr@cs.su.oz.au  (Greg Ryan, g10b, xtn 4809) writes:
>I also use 50/50 nitrox for deco on deep dives, so I guess this counts as
>a safety use.  I use this in conjunction with O2 to reduce deco times at the
>6m and 3m stops if available from the boat, otherwise just use the nitrox and
>stick to the air stops.  I don't know any rules of thumb for reducing deco with
>other than 100% O2.

What rules of thumb do you know for 100% O2 decompression?  I have tables, but
they rely on square type profiles.  I've never heard of any generic rules.

>	Greg Ryan 	gregr@cs.su.oz.au

craig
-- 
Craig Campbell		|	These opinions are entirely the result of a 
Systems Engineer	|	small butterfly crashing into the far side
NCR Canada,		|	of the planet.  Chaos Rules.
an AT&T Company		|	I speak for no one, except, possibly, myself.
From: gordon@meiko.com (Gordon Henderson)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Bringing it up again (seasickness)
Date: 15 Oct 92 09:22:17 GMT
Organization: Meiko Scientific Corp.

I think I posted this to the originator of this thread, but there seems
to be a continuing discussion, so heres by deflated 2 ECUs worth ...

Does anyone consider more natural remidies to seasickness? There seems to
be a lot of discussion about the various side-effects and whatnot!

A remedy that is used a lot in my club is "Stugeron" (cinnarizine,
15mg) These arn't too bad, but they do make you feel sleepy, and most
of the time I'm faced with a 2 hour drive home, so I only used them
once - they seemed to work ok, but I wasn't happy with falling asleep
on the way home )-: Some people don't seem to be affected by it, so I
guess your milage will vary ..

I used to feel sick and get fairly bad headaches on a boat, or even
from the shore, if there was a bit of a swell. I looked at what I was
drinking before a dive: usually it was orange squash. (The stuff you
dilute with water). My puke *always* was tasting of orange - I had to
change!

A look at the ingredients showed it to be full of artificial sweetners
- NutraSweet/Aspartame(?) things. I used to do a bit of flying a few
years ago, and I remembered something about these artificial sweetners
being the only "foodstuff" that the CAA recomended pilots not to eat!
(something about pilots feeling headaches and nauseous after drinking
diet coke), anyway I also remembered an old-hand saying that to prevent
sickness during aerobatic training, a good remedy was half a cup of
glucose powder, eaten with a teaspoon and with just enough water to get
it down your throat!

I switched to a brand of blackcurrant juice that has no artificial
sweetners and a good proportion of glucose syrup in the mix. I still
get the odd little headache now, but no more sickness! Perhaps I've
just gotten used to boats, and rough sea, who knows!

-- Gordon Henderson
From: keulen@possum.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Mike van Keulen)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Weight belt oops at 50'
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:52:46 GMT
Organization: Murdoch University

sdodd@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd) writes:

>   I did want to point out to the net that on this occassion I noticed a
>   definite effort required to stay on task and resist the temptation to
>   allow events to proceed in an ad-hoc basis.  This is where the real
>   danger lies.  

Hmmm ... do you think this may have been partially due to nitrogen narcosis
setting in under a stressful situation?  50' is normally too shallow to have
serious narc effects, but what with the stress of losing your belt, the effects
may have been set off.  I know from personal experience that if I'm in a tight
spot I generally notice myself start to become a little light-headed.  Nothing
serious, but what would happen at depth?

Mike

--
***************************** Michael van Keulen *************************** 
* Snail: School of BES - Biology         e-mail: keulen@murdoch.edu.au     *
*        Murdoch University              phone:  ++ 61 (09) 360-2843 (work)*
*        Murdoch WA 6150  AUSTRALIA              ++ 61 (09) 417-3902 (home)*
*************************** "To Love is to _LIVE_!" ************************
From: falk@peregrine.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Video lights in S.F. Bay Area
Date: 17 Oct 1992 04:43:57 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: peregrine

In article <1992Oct16.180638.8195@novell.com> bbaker@na.novell.com () writes:
>Anyone know of places in the San Franciso Bay area that rents underwater video
>lights?

You might try Camera Corner (sp?) on Bascom Ave in San Jose, next door
to Stan's Dive Shop, and Camera Tech on Balboa in San Francisco.

		-ed falk, sun microsystems
		 sun!falk, falk@sun.com
To be loyal to rags, to shout for rags, to worship rags, to die for rags 
-- that is a loyalty of unreason, it is pure animal (Mark Twain).
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: dunbar@boulder.Colorado.EDU (S Dunbar)
Subject: Re: How about the Oceanic Datamax?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: world,local
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:26:36 GMT

fnf@fishpond.uucp (Fred Fish) writes:

>In article <29SEP199209011670@mrsvax.mis.arizona.edu> jms@arizona.edu writes:
>|On a recent dive trip, I heard a story about an instructor using the
>|Datamax while training four students on a "deep dive" course.  This
>|was out of El Mar, the largest dive shop in Arizona, and supposedly
>|happened quite recently. 
>|...
>|Result: all four students, and the instructor, got bent.  

>Just for the record, while I was in El Mar today I happened to mention
>reading this rumor.  It appears to be totally unfounded.

>-Fred

could someone tell me if this is true or not, i was thinking of getting my
wife a datamax wrist mount for channukah!!

i did ask my local dive shop about it, and they said that they would check
into it,  i wouldnt imagine that el mar would admit this even if it was true

come on , 5 people off the same computer is not smart.


scott
 
Scott\      /\/\  /|email: dunbar@boulder.colorado.edu
  /***\  /\/*/**\/*|Department of Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology
 /  /\ \/**\/    \ |University of Colorado at Boulder, Boulder, CO  80309-0347
From: falk@peregrine.Eng.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: regulator reccomendations?
Date: 13 Oct 1992 19:52:08 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: peregrine

Hi all;  After 20 years of good service, I managed to lose my USD
Calypso J.  I've given up on finding it, so the time has come to
replace it.  All the new plastic regulators look exactly alike to
me.  Any recommendations?  Anything I should avoid?  I'm leaning
towards one of the new USD Conshelf regulators simply out of brand
loyalty and price considerations.

So, what's your favorite regulator and why?

--
		-ed falk, sun microsystems
		 sun!falk, falk@sun.com
To be loyal to rags, to shout for rags, to worship rags, to die for rags 
-- that is a loyalty of unreason, it is pure animal (Mark Twain).
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Women and doubles
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:25:37 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Oct14.143656.2733@cattnts.canada.ncr.com>, craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell) writes:
> In article <13OCT199219521791@watson.bms.com> ram@watson.bms.com (Gena Ram) writes:
> 
>>Taking off my gear in the water is 
>>not an option, as none of the boats I've ever dived on allow this (I guess if 
>>you can"t handle it, you shouldn't use it?!)

> Doubles are a b**ch for everyone, and climbing onto any boat with them is not
> easy.  Tips?  Asside from a serious strength training program 
> (Ms. Schwartzeneger? :-)), talk to your friends on the boat.  You should be 
> able to handle yourself and all your equipment without assistance.  That does
> NOT mean that it is necessary or desirable to do so.  Up here, at least on the
> boats I've been on, everybody HELPS everyone else.  This includes helping to
> pull you up the ladder, walk on a rocking deck, etc.  This is not because
> you are inadequate or unable, but because it increases everyones fun and 
> safety.  (Hauling yourself and doubles up a ladder after a good dive is 
> EXERCISE, and you, as a freshly nitrogen enriched diver are supposed to avoid
> exercise.) 

Absolutly.  When I dive, someone always tends the diver entering and exiting
the water.  I almost *NEVER* reenter the boat with my tank on.  We usually
have someone grab onto the tank or BC and then we release the BC straps.  
The person on the boat then hauls the tank(s) onboard.  I'd never expect
someone diving doubles to climb onboard with them on.

BTW, I just bought a set of used double 50's with bands for 50's, 72's and
80's.  All I want is the bands and crossover manifold.  The tanks are
in hydro (1-2 years left) and are both plus rated, with valves.  If
anybody is interested in them, email me with an offer.

> craig
> 
> P.S.  If your ever up here, I'll help haul you out! :-)

Sheesh, every time we get a chick on rec.scuba, Craig's gotta make a play 
for her.    ;-)

Ted Feuerbach - Scientific Systems Consultant
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Safety/Standards Violations
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:46:41 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <1992Oct9.080527.18803@nntp.uoregon.edu> davidw@cie.uoregon.edu (David Weingarten) writes:
>
>Anyway, my two questions, particularly directed at NAUI Instructors 
>(but please respond even if you're not in that category), are: 1) am *I*
>at legal risk if I continue to assist this class and 2) should I report
>her to NAUI if the safety of the class does not improve in the last two
>sessions?
>

1. I *doubt* you're in any legal hot water but damn sure don't take my
   word for it.  

2. Report her to NAUI?  I would suggest that you talk to her about it 
   first.  Try to be as non-confrontational as possible.  Say that you're 
   concerned because X happened or that Y didn't happen.  It sounds like
   she has a fairly large support staff.   Suggest ways to her that she
   could take advantage of that staff to help organize things and make 
   it safer (e.g. have each assistant watch 1-2 people clear their masks).

I'm not supporting standards violations, but after you teach a couple of 
classes on your own, you'll discover that the advice they give you about
rescues ("Nothing *ever* goes according to the book") is somewhat 
applicable to teaching classes.  I will give the benefit of doubt to this
instructor and assume she would like to make her classes better and 
safer (wouldn't we all?).  Try to work with her on that basis.  If you
are constantly rebuffed, then I would talk to NAUI about it.

Regards, (and good luck) Lee
From: Karl_Schutz@rand.ORG (Karl Schutz)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Weight belt oops at 50'
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:40:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: cis.13251
Organization: The RAND Corporation, Santa Monica, California

In article <71203@hydra.gatech.EDU>, sc5@prism.gatech.EDU (CSEPLO,STEPHEN P) writes:
> Hey look. I'm confused. How are you going to die from a run away decent
> from 50' down? As this happened at the very beginning of a dive, there
> shouldn't be any decompression problems as this is well within the
> direct ascent window (PADI tables). And as long as you continue to
> breath out on the ascent, there shouldn't be any danger from lung over
> expansion. You still had plenty of air, so how are you going to die?

Die?  Potentially injured is more likely; death is possible if injured without
proper medical care.

The problem is rapid ascent (ie, greater that 60 ft/sec ... PADI definition). 
When the weight belt was lost the diver stated that he became positively buoyant.
Without counteracting/controlling such positive buoyancy, the diver will ascend, 
becoming more buoyant as depth decreases (due to air expansion in dry suit, BC; 
wet suit expansion; etc.); thus, further accelerating the ascent.  The end
result, we have a diver ascending from depth with positive acceleration which
implies increasing velocity.  Too rapid an ascent rate may cause bubbles to form
in the blood.  If such a bubble is transported to the brain via the circulatory
system, a stroke may result.  The stroke could lead to unconciousness or result 
in paralysis; both of which could result in drowning.  This is one of the more
serious results of rapid ascents; there are others of lesser degree.  The point
being, rapid ascents can cause injury and may result in death.

-- 
Karl F. Schutz
PADI DM-50321
From: geary%cfa3.DECNET@CFA.HARVARD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Inexpensive Cayman diving ?
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:57:49 GMT

I recently saw an ad in Skin Diver (no flames intended) for a bargain
diving package on Grand Cayman.  79 bucks a day per person (double
occupancy) for room, breakfast, rental car, and 2 boat dives.  I am
going to be on Grand Cayman right after Thanksgiving, attending a
conference, and would like to check this out, but I am short one
room-mate / dive buddy because my wife can't make it at this time. 
Anyone interested in this ??  The dates are 29 Nov (Sunday) to 6
Dec (Sun.) or 7 Dec (Mon.).

John Geary
PADI DM-52283
geary@cfa.harvard.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: deej@cds8613.Cadence.COM (Jim Howard)
Subject: Re: Combatting Sea Sickness
Keywords: Sea Sick
Reply-To: deej@cds8613.Cadence.COM (Jim Howard)
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:20:19 GMT

In article <BuzMqI.7C5@scd.hp.com>, dave@hpdstma.ptp.hp.com (Dave Waller) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep22.145704.3789@cc.gatech.edu>, peggy@gatech.edu (Margaret Simpson) writes:
|> 
|> |> Do you dive with the scop patches?  I would be very hesitant to
|> |> do this since it would seem that the increased pressure could
|> |> cause the patch to deliver an increased quantity of the drug.
|> 
|> This is a very good question to ask, and I applaud your concern. Rest easy,
|> however, as this is not a problem, because the delivery mechanism for the
|> drug is not affected significantly by pressure.
|> 
|> If this were so, you could give yourself a burst of the drug simply by
|> pressing on the patch -- however, it doesn't work this way.
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|> Dave Waller
|> YMCA Instructor

    I say "to hell with drugs!"  I myself sometimes suffer from seasickness, and
I've found a non-medicinal cure.  They're called "Sea Bands", and are sold in
a lot of dive shops, boat stores, sporting goods stores, etc.  All they are is an
elastic band with a plastic "bump" that's held against a pressure point on
both wrists.
   I was on the Conception in the Channel Islands for a 4 day liveaboard, and
never once suffered any symptoms - except once when I took the Sea Bands
off briefly.  Needless to say, I put them back on and kept them on for the
remainder of the trip!
    Best part - the only side-effect is a slight depression on the inside of your
wrists that goes away in less than an hour...

-- 
         ~ deej ~              | (If I were expressing Cadence's opinions, )
Jim Howard -- deej@cadence.com | (they'd probably make me wear a tie...    )
        (^:=             Flames cheerfully ignored.             =:^)
"Pardon me, is that Grey Poupon those Bugle Boy jeans you're wearing?"
From: danbe@tekred.CNA.TEK.COM (Dan Beougher )
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: strobes
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:29:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: master.3775
Organization: Tektronix, Inc.,  Redmond, OR.

Reference to Camera World of Oregon not selling underwater cameras
anymore....

I bought a Nikonos and strobe there two weeks ago. However, I
don't believe I saw any underwater stuff listed in their latest
ad in one of the photo pubs.  I visited the showroom in Portland.
Incidentally, you're right about price.
I called every company advertising in afformentioned pub (Modern
Photography??....Popular Photography???), and Camera World had
the best prices, not only on underwater stuff, but the latest
Minoltas.  Now, if I could just figure out how to use it!.....


dB
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: World PADI compatibility
Date: 15 Oct 1992 18:37:06 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <1992Oct15.084431.22606@mentor.dk> cj@mentor.dk (Claus Jensen) writes:
>I have just taken the PADI Open Water Diver certificate.
>One of the issues that counts in favour of the PADI certificate as opposed
>to many other types of certificates, is that the contents of the courses
>(or at least of the OWD-course) is supposed to be alike all over the world.
>This, in turn, should make it easier to rent equipment, go on boat-dives,
>take new courses in foreign places etc, since the dive-leader or instructor
>always know what your skills are.
>
  [ idiot diver story deleted ]

IMHO, there is nothing magic about PADIi.  They have good instructors and bad
instructors.  Highly correlated with that, they turn out good divers and bad
divers.  I'm not going to argue percentages or comparisons with other 
agencies - it would be futile.

People are not automata and do not absorb education equally.  The continuum
of diver quality is completely continuous (I suppose you could differentiate
it if you wanted....) at least here in the U.S.  I can't speak for the 
standards of other countries.

Whatever advantages PADI offers, I don't believe they include guarantees that
a diver with a given certification will have the exact specifications 
theoretically associated with that C-card.  

Regards, Lee

P.S. I don't believe PADI or anybody has the "authority" to forbid you to do
     a specific kind of dive.  If you choose to make a night dive because you
     feel you are qualified to do so, then you can.  I like it that way.
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: ssouther@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu (P. Sterling Southern)
Subject: DDT and egg shell thinning
Originator: ssouther@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu
Organization: Dept. of Entomology - NCSU, Raleigh, NC
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:20:52 GMT


>I recently received a newspaper in the mail called the Freemarket News.
>It happened to contain an article about being a skeptic. The author claims
>that DDT is not the cause of thinning of egg shells in birds and that the 
>thinning of egg shells in birds appeared long before DDT was in use. 
>...  Are there any scientists that truly doubt the hazards of DDT? 
>This author claimed DDT breaks down into harmless substances after two 
>weeks! I'm thinking of writing a reply to this goof ball.

A couple of comments on the DDT/eggshell issue.  Years back, when the
effort to ban DDT was hot, I did see an article that addressed the issue
of thinning prior to the use of DDT.  That article claimed that data
showing thinning prior to use of DDT was for only a couple of years
prior to widespread use and was for an area where DDT was actually used
"early" in preliminary tests.  That was long ago and I can't give a
reference or speak to the accuracy of the article.  From my reading it
seems to me that most scientists working in the area feel that DDT is
directly implicated in egg-shell thinning and other problems.  However,
the issue is not as simple as its sometimes reported in the popular
press and I expect there are some reputable people with questions.
Personally, I (as both entomologist and birder) thought
outdoor/agricultural use should be banned but was reluctant to eliminate
indoor use for disease vector control - a very limited use with even
more limited escape into the general environment.  

On the issue of the breakdown into harmless substances.  This also is a
complex issue depending on environmental conditions such as alkalinity.  
However, I did ask a toxicologist in our group about this.  She
replied that the American Board of Toxicology gives 4-5 years as the
half-life of DDT in the environment.  This could, however, include some
of the break-down products such as DDE and DDA.  At least some of these
break-down products are also biologically active.  In short, I would be
very leary of a comment that DDT breaks down into "harmless" products in
two weeks.  One of the values of DDT as an insecticide was its residual
efficacy (obviously a detriment from other points of view). 
-- 
| Sterling Southern, NCSU-Entomology, Box 7613, Raleigh NC 27695-7613   |
|=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=|
| Voice: (919) 515-2703      |  CAROLINE: ssouther@ent1                 |
| FAX:   (919) 515-7746      |  INTERNET: ssouthern@ent.ncsu.edu        | 
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: Jim Hackett
Subject: Aleutian Terns in Hong Kong waters
Organization: Biochem. Dept., HKUST
Distribution: international
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 05:23:07 GMT

 We had 190+ Aleutian Terns in waters near Hong Kong in late Sept. 1992; this
is a first for HK and China; no sizable numbers of the birds have ever been
recorded away from their breeding grounds before this. Jim Hackett.
Newsgroups: rec.birds