HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mark3@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Mark Magennis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: The Tao of falling off a bike
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:47:34 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

The crux of the matter is:

I have heard many times that in the event of any impact (car, bike, falling
off a wall,...) it's best to remain relaxed. It's supposed to absorb the 
impact. It's said that stiffening up is more likey to lead to broken bones.
Is this an old spouses tale or is there some evidence for it, apart from the
wise sayings of a Chinese sage?

Mark
-- 
___________________________________________________________
mark3@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk		Mark Magennis
				Dept. of Computing Science
				The University, Glasgow, UK
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.misc:759 rec.sport.triathlon:1252
From: dsmith@atlastele.com (Doug Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc,rec.sport.triathlon
Subject: Cycling with broken toe.
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:59:31 GMT
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Disclaimer: Views expressed do not necessarily represent those of my employer.


I suffered a minor fracture in a toe last week, and was wondering if
it's safe to cycle with a broken toe. My doctor told me no running
for 3 weeks, and swimming is o.k., but wasn't sure about cycling and
thought it best not to risk it.

Is there anyone out in net-land who could share their experiences
cycling with a minor toe fracture? 

Thanks.

	Doug Smith
From: pzs@ficus.webo.dg.com (Peter Z. Simpson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: What Age to start riding?
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:04:49 GMT
Organization: Data General Corp., Westboro, MA

>>>>> On 25 Sep 92 14:04:23 GMT, jdr40@ccc.amdahl.com (John Ritter) said:

> My 8 year old son is really interested in riding. He sees me leave all
> the time so I guess he figures he needs to get interested. I would like
> to get a tandem with a childs stoker kit but my wife would die is I spent
> that much on another bike. I asked my local bike shop and they can get a
> road bike with 24" wheels and 15" frame that would be about the size we
> need. My qestion is, is 8 years old too young? Can a child this age handle
> gearing or should we stick to fix gears for now? Obviously I wouldn't try
> to take him along on my club training rides, I can't quite see an 8 year
> old hammering along at 25 mph pulling a whole group. I would like to take
> him on leisurly rides of 20-25 miles. Is this distance reasonable? Anyone
> have any experience with their kids?

    I have two kids. A boy, 10, who's very mechanical and started with
gears at age 9 (now rides a smaller 10-speed quite well) and a girl,
7, who has been riding her brother's hand-me-down BMX-style bikes for
3 years or so. I don't think she's quite ready for gears, but maybe
next year. They can take 20-25 miles if it's flat...the limiting
factor being Liz on her BMX not having enough weight to stand up and
pedal the bike up the hill. Michael on his 10-speed can do 10-12 mph
for the 20-25 miles without any problems. 

    They're both seasoned road riders...they know the safety rules for
riding in traffic and we ride often as a family. They absolutely love
bike paths (flat and no traffic is a big plus) and can go faster and
farther on them than on roads.

    I'd start out on 3-4 mile family rides, one parent in front for
your son to follow and one in back to coach. Start him out on quiet
residential streets and let him get comfortable in light traffic. Then
go for longer rides during the early evening or on weekends when the
traffic is lighter. Don't expect great speed...8 mph is about what we
average. He's old enough, but he's got quite a bit to learn...don't
push him too hard, let him get comfortable with it all. If everything
goes well, you can move him up to gears in a year or two. 

    
--
  Peter Simpson, KA1AXY       (508) 870-9837  fax: (508) 898-4212
  Data General Corp.  E236    pzs@ficus.webo.dg.com [128.221.228.82]
  Westboro, MA  01580         #include  <std_disclaimer.h>   
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: pete@aix1.uottawa.ca (Peter Hickey)
Subject: Re: Road bikes in the winter.
Organization: Computing & Comm. Services, University of Ottawa
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 20:16:19 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.155654.12598@slustl.slu.edu> guy@slustl.slu.edu (Guy Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.132532.26614@cbnewse.cb.att.com> pwyc@cbnewse.cb.att.com (peter.w.chen) writes:
>>In article <BvCzDF.EC4@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>>>...  Is it at all possible to continue riding when it gets 30 or 40
>>ski goggles (preferable with a clear lens for riding in the dark - days are
>>short), a ski mask, earmuffs, some scarf/turtleneck for the neck area, ski
>An alternative is the neoprene face mask that Performance carries, although
>it is overkill above about 25 degrees. These may be available from other
>vendors as well.

An alternative to the alternative is:

	Grow a beard!

I'm sorry if my sexist upbringing surfaces, but its one area
where men excel and women don't.
-- 
Pete Hickey               | Pete@mudhead.uottawa.CA | "If a vegetarian eats
Communication Services    |   or (if desperate)     |  vegatables, then what
University of Ottawa      | petehic@uottawa.bitnet  |  does a humanitarian
Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 564-7646         |  eat?"
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: WOW! What a day?!? (bike-wreck story)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 22:18:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <Bup6M8.5nw@cs.dal.ca> kelley@cs.dal.ca (Dan Kelley) writes:
>So do whatever you wish about a new bike frame, with or without help
>from the car driver.  [Sorry to say this, but I'm a Canadian, so I
>vaguely subscribe to the communist idea "from each according to
>ability, to each according to need" ... so if the driver was poor,
>well give the person a break and worry about the cost yourself.  To
>American ears, this might sound like devil worship, so forgive me.]

Devil Worship is at least acceptable in some locations. :-)

I think it goes without saying that Dan should be happy with his
accomodation with the driver. I ran over the bike of some jerk that
was riding at night without lights or reflectors, in the rain, and
wearing all black! Although I was looking carefully I completely 
missed him in a parking lot and started forward. I heard some
shouting and opened the side window to see what the hell that noise
was. When I saw the front wheel under my front wheel I almost jumped
out of my liver. Then I realized there was a guy standing there 
shouting at me. What relief to know that there wasn't a man under
my car! Although I considered it his fault completely I paid for 
a new front wheel and a paint job on his bike and rode him home
too. I was working and he was retired.

>Keep riding, stay save, and pass on and advice that will help your
>fellow road-users.

Sound advice.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: djnelso@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (David J. Nelson)
Subject: Re: GIF picture "sprint.gif" posted to alt.binaries.pictures.misc
Reply-To: djnelso@PacBell.COM (David J. Nelson)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:59:28 GMT

In article <jamesp.718251168@bison> jamesp@cs.uwa.oz.au (James Pinakis) writes:
>I have just posted a gif picture called sprint.gif to
>alt.binaries.pictures.misc.  It's a picture of a bunch sprint I recently
>digitised from a Winning magazine for use as the front cover of the programme
>for a race our club was organising.  I'm not sure who's in it - I can find
>out if anyone is particularly interested.  I also have a Postscript version
>of the picture (dithered, b/w) which is good for inclusion in race programmes,
>club newsletters etc.  Write to me if you want a copy of this.
>
>james
>jamesp@cs.uwa.edu.au

I hope that before you start doing this on a regular basis, you please read
the copyright laws. I am a professional photographer and have had many
photos published by different cycling magazines, including Winning. I make
a living from my work. While the photo you describe is not mine, I know the
photographer. To assume that you can just take a photo and use it as you
please illustrates the lack of knowledge in this country about copyrights.

Please think about the person that took the initial photo. I have had my
work appear without my knowledge and without any payment. Think of it as
working for a day and then finding out that you are being payed for your
work.

I don't mean to sound so harsh, but this is a touchy subject with artists.
I hope you take it in the manner intended, just some friendly advice.

Dave Nelson

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: bonham@jade.ab.ca (Mike Bonham)
Subject: Re: What Age to start riding?
Organization: Jade Simulations International, Inc.
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 20:06:31 GMT


> jdr40@ccc.amdahl.com (John Ritter) writes:

> My 8 year old son is really interested in riding. He sees me leave all
> the time so I guess he figures he needs to get interested. I would like
> to get a tandem with a childs stoker kit but my wife would die is I spent
> that much on another bike. I asked my local bike shop and they can get a
> road bike with 24" wheels and 15" frame that would be about the size we
> need. My qestion is, is 8 years old too young? Can a child this age handle
> gearing or should we stick to fix gears for now? Obviously I wouldn't try
> to take him along on my club training rides, I can't quite see an 8 year
> old hammering along at 25 mph pulling a whole group. I would like to take
> him on leisurly rides of 20-25 miles. Is this distance reasonable? Anyone
> have any experience with their kids?

I am intrigued by the `Rann trailers' as described in John Forester's
`Effective Cycling'.  Buy your son the 24" road bike.  Go on shorter
rides with him on separate bikes.  When you both want to go faster or
for a longer distance, pop the fork out of his headset and insert onto a
special coupler on a frame extension on your bike, making a 3-wheel
articulating tandem.

I haven't tried this yet, my oldest just turned 6 years.  On his one-speed
16"-wheel lead-alloy ATB-style bike he enjoys going riding with me while I
pull the Burley trailer with the other two kids.  Longest trip so far was`
10 km to the zoo & back -- he handled that just fine.  I'm not going to push
the distance or the pace -- it's supposed to be fun after all!  My son
knows what gearing does, and understands that the derailleur moves the
chain to bigger and smaller gears to make it harder or easier to pedal up
hills.  He wants me to put a gear changer on his bike too!

I'm certain an 8-year old will be able to get the hang of a multi-gear bike.

Has anybody on the net built and used a Rann trailer?  Are they as great
as the concept seems?
-- 
  Mike Bonham        bonham@jade.ab.ca      Jade Simulations International
``Perfection is achieved, not when there is no longer anything to add, but
  when there is no longer anything to take away.'' (like this .signature?)
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.misc:773 rec.bicycles.rides:227
From: rfriedel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Ronald J Friedel)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.rides
Subject: Re: Tandem syndrome strikes again
Date: 6 Oct 1992 13:40:49 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Summary: Not with my wife!

In article <1992Oct5.212323.5926@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>Yesterday I got my first ride on the front of my son's new Counterpoint
>tandem . . .
>
>
>Unfortunately, both my son and I succumbed to what I call "tandem
>syndrome," in which each rider pedals ever more furiously so as to
>ensure that he is doing his share.  By the end of the ride we were
>quite depleted.
>
>. . ..
>--
>Les Earnest

Somebody please tell this to my wife!  There are time that I swear she is
not pedaling.  It would be really bad with a Counterpoint although I would
be able to see her coasting.

One time a few years ago when we first got our tandem we were going up a
long, moderately steep hill.  I was getting winded and started to think
about "bailing out."  I said "get ready to unclip; we are going to stop."
She said, "Oh, I could push a lot harder."  It was no problem after that..
Now she just listens to my level of panting.  8-)

Ron Friedel

-- 
Ron Friedel
GeoSciences  UW-Milwaukee
rfriedel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
From: ncherry@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (neil j.cherry)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Helmet stink (WAS Re: DO YOU shower after a commute?)
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:55:37 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <jtfzqAPABh105h@contempt.brisnet.org.au> rob%contempt%meteor@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au writes:
>In <1aee9aINNhq@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
>
>I have washed the foam spacer pads - but most of the (ahem) 'aroma'
>comes from the nylon, woven straps.  I have tried washing them (with and
>without soap) and soaking them, but they still smell bad.
>

I toss them in with my wifes nylons (she has a bag for the nylons panty hose)
and wash them with the gentles. Only smell I get is the smell of the fabric
softener I HAVE to add for my wifes cloths.

NJC
From: javiers@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Javier Sanchez)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: FAQ: Where are they?
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:16:07 GMT
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)



Can someone tell me how to get to the FAQ.

Thanks in advance.

Javier
From: steve@meeker.forests (Steve)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Cold-Weather Footgear
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:16:19 GMT
Reply-To: steve@meeker.forests
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

I've seen people mount cleats on birkenstocks, why not sorells?
They'd probably freeze up, but think of the fun skating across
the linoleom on your cleat-equipped (moon) boots :)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper)
Subject: Re: Hit and Run (the results)
Organization: University of Waterloo Math Faculty Computing Facility, Ontario.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:12:13 GMT

In article <-204369999@hplred.HP.COM> jbrandt@hplred.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>From the "Times Tribune"... 
>
>Hit-and-run teen driver is given two years for injuring bicyclist
>
>by Kerry McCray
>
>
>Wray's court-appointed attorney, Bill Johnston, said his client is
>remorseful.  Wray, a former special education student in high school,
>has developmental disabilities that impair his ability to make
>decisions, Johnston said.  "I don't believe he's a malicious, callous,
>bad person." Johnston said.  "He's easily swayed by his peers."
>
If he has a disability that impairs his ability to make decisions, then
he has no business having a driver's licence, does he?  His own lawyer
made this admission?

Adrian Pepper.
arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca


From: khe@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Keith Erskine)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:49:56 GMT
Subject: Re: Ways to alleviate wind-in-ear noise?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc

In rec.bicycles.misc, boone@IDA.ORG (John Boone) writes:

> Mike - I don't want to rain on your's or anyone else's parade, but using
                                                                     ^^^^^
> headphones (especially at any kind of volume) has been shown to cause
^^^^^^^^^^^^                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> measurable and progressive hearing loss.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The underlines statement above is entirely untrue.  Headphones do NOT
cause hearing loss.  Hearing loss is caused by excessive volume
(>1-2hr at 100db, >0.5hr at 110db, etc).   If the headphones are
kept to a reasonable volume (~70-80db), they are perfectly safe.  


>I enjoy music as much as anybody, which is one reason I don't use 
> headphones much anymore.

Tell this to the thousands of studio musicians and engineers who
use headphones (AKG studio monitor headphones, usually) 3-4 hours
a day.   They rely on the hearing to make a living, they would
know if headphones intrinsically caused hearing damage.

Keith Erskine
From: jbrandt@hplred.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:48:53 GMT
Subject: Re: DO YOU shower after a commute?
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc

This subject has, for most people, a double conflict in that cleanliness
and bathing often is an American fetish.  The American house, with more
bathrooms than bedrooms, stands out as a reminder that we are of puritan
heritage and that "cleanliness is next to godliness" as the trite saying
reminds us.  This is taken more literally by the public at large than
might be apparent.  In some circles, admitting to bathing less than twice
per day would prove that the perpetrator either slept in a filthy bed or
was hiding a filthy body under his clothing.

To not bathe after physical exertion or even the appearance of physical
exertion is an ugly thought for many citizens.  Hence, I believe we
are not going to get a free discussion of the topic but rather a poll
of who is an individualist/pragmatist.  Suggesting that a bath after
bicycling can be omitted is similar to suggesting that a bicycle can be
ridden without a helmet (but different) although the consequences are
similar in that one is subsequently considered not clear on the concept.

So then I am not sure why this is an issue in the first place.  If this
causes BO problems then these should be resolved but other than that it
is a matter of personal comfort and manner of dress.  I for one, ride to
work in casual clothing and my pants seat bottoms wear out faster than I
would like.  We have showers but I don't feel the need to augment my home
bathing facilities with them.

RIde bike!

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: rickd@sequoiasequoia.com (Richard Dienel)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Ways to alleviate wind-in-ear noise?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:58:07 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

Another point that should be raised is that if you are wearing the
foam or cup type of headphone, as opposed to the button type, not
only are you impairing your hearing, but you are most likely not
wearing a helmet. The first is foolish, the second, self-abuse.

--
Rick Dienel                                           rickd@sequoia.com
Sequoia Systems Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: RONEAL@lexmark.com (Randy O'Neal)
Subject: Re: Knee problem
X-Disclaimer: These views are the poster's and not necessarily those of Lexmark
Organization: Lexmark International, Lexington, KY
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:36:28 GMT

In article <4065.2739219031@kiwi.gen.nz>
rabbi@kiwi.gen.nz (Rabbi Bajzheet) writes:
 
>
>bout a month ago, during a medium length (60ish km) hard ride, I managed to do
>something to my right knee. It feels fine under all circumstances, *except*
>when I'm pushing on a downstroke. Then I feel a chronic ache, under my kneecap.
>Nothing else I do (running, walking, poking at it with my fingers) seems to
>hurt it.
>
>Saw a doctor, he said I'd bruised the cartilage under my kneecap. Since
>Acartilage doesn't have a very good blood supply, it doesn't tend to heal very
>fast. He prescribed complete rest from cycling for six weeks (gasp!), and then
>gradually build up strength, keep spinning and don't overdo it. He said if I
>didn't do this, it wouldn't heal for several months, perhaps never if I keep
>cycling.
>
>Waah!
>
>Can any knee gurus give me a second opinion, or some advice generally? I'm not
>keen on being in dry dock for a month and a half.
 
Speaking from experience, either listen to your doctor, get a second opinion
if you don't like the first, or get ready to limp - maybe for a loooooong
time.  I didn't listen to my orthopedic surgeon and went dirt biking when
he told me to take it easy... I ended up with a second more radical
operation and now I can't run, jog, etc.  Fortunately, I *can* ride, though
I can't ride standing up for too long.  Believe me, if your doctor told you
to lay off, that's *exactly* what you ought to do.  Good luck...
 
 
Randy O'Neal  RONEAL@lexmark.com     Printer Attach Software Development
                                     Lexmark International, Inc.
-- Weinberg's Law --                 Lexington, Ky.
'If builders built buildings like
 programmers wrote programs, then                                     __o
 the first woodpecker that came      "The views above are not those  `\<,
 along would destroy civilization.'   of my employer... just mine."  O/ O
From: tfb@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Tim Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Headphones (was Re: Ways to alleviate wind-in-ear noise?)
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:29:37 GMT
Organization: Not

>>>>> On 6 Oct 92 12:35:24 GMT, boone@IDA.ORG (John Boone) said:

> [Does listening to headphones casue hearing damage at low volumes or
> does it only hurt you at high volumes?]

I think that there are two effects here.  Listening at sustained high
volume is definitely very damaging -- I've met enough deaf musicians.
But what is also damaging is the tight coupling between the headphones
and your ear -- this means that loud transient sounds can be much more
damaging through headphones than through speakers.  I believe there is
a safe listening level -- I've listened to headphones for 10+ years
regularly and I'm not aware of any damage beyond what you'd expect
from aging.

To bring this back to bicycles: was this in response to a suggestion
to wear headphones while riding?  I think that's a pretty good way to
get knocked down by a car you didn't hear.

--tim

---
Tim Bradshaw: tim.bradshaw@ed.ac.uk
From: skelly@coral.bucknell.edu (Kelly Sean David)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Developing riding technique
Date: 29 Sep 1992 12:13:05 -0400
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: coral.bucknell.edu

I don't know if this helps but I noticed that when I start 'spinning' the
whole effort of pedaling semms to get easier.  Instead of pushing down with
one foot and pulling up with the other I move my feet with the pedals of the
bicycle, applying a constant pressure in the direction they're going.  I've
found it helps to use my ankles too (some people use their ankles more than
others) as it reduces the work my upper legs have to do (this, as I understand
it, is called ankling).  My guess (if what your roommate said is true :) ) is
that you're using more of a 'push' type pedaling, because the bike tends to
move more laterally when people pedal this way, which could, at low speeds,
make it difficult to maintain one's balance on a trainer.  When you get up to
speed the angular momentum of the wheels is enough to keep one upright.

-Sean Kelly

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: aberigan@nde.unl.edu (A. Berigan)
Subject: Re: Ways to alleviate wind-in-ear noise?
Organization: Ord High School, Ord, NE
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:11:13 GMT

khe@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Keith Erskine) writes:
>boone@IDA.ORG (John Boone) writes:

>>Mike - I don't want to rain on your's or anyone else's parade, but using
>                                                                    ^^^^^
>>headphones (especially at any kind of volume) has been shown to cause
> ^^^^^^^^^^                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>measurable and progressive hearing loss.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>The underlines statement above is entirely untrue.  Headphones do NOT
>cause hearing loss.  Hearing loss is caused by excessive volume
>(>1-2hr at 100db, >0.5hr at 110db, etc).   If the headphones are
>kept to a reasonable volume (~70-80db), they are perfectly safe.  

Still, headphones will reduce your ability to hear sounds around you on
a bike.  Indeed, lately I have not seen a headphone manual that did not
mention this fact.

Which is why I use an external speaker on my rear rack just under the
seat, with a cable hooked to a radio at the front of the bike.  I'm more
interested in my own safety than what annoyance I might give to other
bicyclists or joggers.

>Keith Erskine

Of course, this has no bearing on wind-in-ear noise, other than
operating headphones are not recommended.

--     o
      /\_         (10/3)  1/      (11/3)
  ---P\--~\_    WF      + /(10-WF)
__P")=/-'_(`)__
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~aberigan@nde.unl.edu (Greg Berigan)