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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:32:56 -0500
From:         STU_CDHERBER@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      nerd and jerk
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.bitnet

I'd like to add my two bits' worth on this grammatical topic.  I agree
with the other posters' evaluations of the two words.  I would like to
add some synonyms:  nerd = dweeb, geek, goofball, social idiot.  A jerk
is just an a__hole (my attempt to placate the electronic censors and those
with delicate sensibilities); yes, unfortunately, we women tend to fall for
them, although it occurs to me that women can just as easily be jerks as men.

-Deming
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:11:29 EST
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: skyn of houndfyssh

On Wed, 4 Nov 1992 13:18:59 EST Paul G. Beidler said:
>What do I mean by this?  Only that to pretend that there is any virtue in
>trying to enjoy something without possessing it and mutilating it, as Januarie
>does by having the priest bless his nuptual bed, seems empty and false at
>best--with regards to books or women or anything else.
>
I assure you that mutilating my new sailboat would not only compromise my
enjoyment of it, but would quite possibly prove fatal.
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:31:49 EST
From:         "(Robert F. O'Connor)" <ocoreng@FAC.ANU.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Marginalia
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Ever since I did Classics I wanted to be a scholiast!  Some of the marginalia
are a riot - it is not hard to beleive, I'm afraid, that a lot of the monks
must have hated what they had to do.  Adso wasn't the only one who grew to loath
the Scriptorium.
I can't be entirely sure, but I do recall reading that the rationale behind
the destruction of the Library at Alexandria (by the Saracens - someone, forgive
my ignorance, but it was one of the Moslem armies. Not a bigotted remark, just
true I'm afraid) was that all books were unnecessary once one had read the Koran
- I'm sure some of the more fanatic Crusaders would have done the same, for a
 similar reason, if given the chance.
ROC
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 12:41:34 MET
From:         "The great Jesper -'Jesper'" <NORJJ@STUD.HUM.AAU.DK>
Subject:      Re: hypertext
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

On Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:04:10 EST, Michael McColl writes:

> In its current state, hypertext [...] provides opportunities to read
> a book that was written on a hypertext program, giving the reader
> choices in how the book will be read [...]
> Hypertext as such has no relation to simply reading things on a
> computer that could be read as books.

I think you underestimate by far the possibilities hypertext offers:
First of all, the average hypertext program typically allows you to
convert a normal text file to hypertext format... After that, you can
still choose to read the book (or whatever it is) in a normal
"linear" manner. What it then allows you to do is to add all the
little notes and footnotes and references around the text you can
think of, WITHOUT changing the original text.

That way, it would be fairly interesting to circulate some well-known
text in hypertext format, letting a lot of different people add the
notes and comments and references they pick up.

(Funny thing: If intertextuality is as "working" as it seems to me,
the hypertext ought to grow indefinitely, eventually including
references to most of all litterature. -I guess I'm only dreaming.)

The technology in itself is of course a problem. I don't want to
strain my eyes either. Also, a danger lies in concentrating on using
(or failing to use) the technology that was supposed to be so great
in the first place. -Like when you start using a word processor, and
almost get nothing written since all your mental energy is focused on
the screen and its little error messages.

I did wish I had "The Analysists' Dream Hypertext Program" recently,
when I was studying the use of (romantic) metaphors in Danish author
J.P. Jacobsen's book "Niels Lyhne".... I constantly found myself
thinking "OK, in which paragraph did he refer to both Rousseau AND a
rose?" -A cross-referenced system for taking notes and making marks
in the text would have been a great help....

What do you all think? Wouldn't it be good to electronically make all
the marks and references round the text? Like beeing able to
"connect" all the different uses of a single metaphor within a a
text? -Perhaps best of all, beeing able to make "topical indexes" of
some sort?


-Jesper Juul
 University of Aarhus
 Denmark
From: tbont@EP.IEEE.ORG ((Thomas Bontrager))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: Number of books owned
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:14:29 GMT
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Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

You geeks!  Who gives a rat's crotch?
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Organization: Yucca Flats II in Felton, CA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:24:38 PST
From:         Timothy Bowden <tcbowden@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject: Re: Derrida
Comments: To: "Discussions about Literature" <LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

        Jeremy Hawthorn <Jeremy.Hawthorn@avh.unit.no> writes:

> P.S. From the sublime to the ridiculous. Can any American please
> explain to me the difference between a nerd and a jerk?

Jerks can always get dates.

Even though women unanimously agree they can't stand 'em, somehow
they aren't selected out.  `I'm gonna reform him,' they tell us.

Why not begin with a nerd and revise him into a cretin?

-Uncle Timmie's Social Solipsism

=========================================================
tcbowden@clovis.felton.ca.us (Timothy Bowden)
uunet!scruz.ucsc.edu!clovis.felton.ca.us!tcbowden
Clovis in Felton, CA
=========================================================
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Posted-Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:54:22 EST
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:54:22 EST
From:         "(MM)" <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      another quote of the day
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Well, actually, the Garrison Keillor quotation reminded me of reading about
Henry Miller living at home with his mother in NYC at a time when he was in
his thirties and unemployed. His mother was so ashamed that he was unemployed
and "a writer" that he had to hide in the closet when she had company.
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 10:18:49 -0800
From:         djl@MAILHOST.PP.PDX.EDU
Subject: Re: Autobiography
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Hannah Tillich's "Time After Time"(? it's something very close to that) is
an eye-opening view -- both of an intelligent, creative woman growing up in
tumultuous Berlin, and of the respected, woman-chasing, pornography-consuming
theologian she married.
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:43:28 -0800
From:         djl@MAILHOST.PP.PDX.EDU
Subject: Re: skyn of houndfyssh
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Oh, come off it, Paul.  "Possessing and mutilating"?  There is such a thing as
linking but not possessing, infusing and inspiring (perhaps even sharing) but
not mutilating.  I can't believe even you "possess and mutilate" the women in
your life.  Is it inevitable and therefore to be relished?  Or is it avoidable
by withdrawing into thought and monastery.  Not every person kills the thing
he or she loves.

Please read what I post with more care instead of rushing into deconstruction.

David
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 14:28:28 EST
From:         BAG <gallaghe@SIAM.ORG>
Subject:      Re: autobiography
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

How about M. Duras's "The Lover"? I'm pretty sure that it's
autobiographical and it certainly is a coming of age story.

There's also Kingston's "The Woman Warrior"? I also love her
"Tripmaster Monkey." That, too, is a semi-autobiographical
coming-of-age story by a woman, although the main character is male
(that alone is interesting).

Beth G.
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:23:18 CST
From:         stevo <SPAM@TAMVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: hypertext
              5 Nov 1992 17:04:10 EST from <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>

The impression I get from books like George Landau's HYPERTEXT is that this
would be a legitimate replacement for print books--for the print industry
to be supplanted by a hypertext industry--hypertext books--hypertext list-
serves--hypertext journals--hypertext libraries.  Not such a neat idea, in
my opinion.

steve harris
From: mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU ((MM))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: dig at deconstruction
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:36:01 GMT
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Posted-Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 17:36:01 EST
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

How did I miss that? Thread with dig is strange at deconstruction, or not so.

&
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 07:51:17 -0800
From:         djl@MAILHOST.PP.PDX.EDU
Subject: Re: skyn of houndfyssh
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Sorry, m mcdonald.  As a callow undergraduate, I sensed in the particular
academic atmosphere in which I found myself (as well as from reading
Denis Donoghue in the New York Review of Books) that it was fashionable to
knock deconstruction.  So I dutifully took a swipe at Derrida in the concluding
paragraph of my thesis on John Fowles, without ever having read a word of
Derrida for myself.  I'm not proud (but it was well received -- both the
thesis and the reference to Derrida).

I would be interested to hear your explanation of the virtues of
deconstruction, whenever you find the time.  What little I've heard leads me
to fear it is a powerful temptation for the tyranny of the interpreter over
the text and the hapless author.  If deconstructionists are honest about
their role as creative entities as well, not just experts -- if they
acknowledge, as I suspect they should -- that they are poets at least as much
as scientists, then I can certainly live with 'em.

By the way, I don't believe I deconstructed Paul's post to any great extent.
I deconstructed my own, with an eye toward a theory about how I might have been
misread, for the most part.  Deconstructing one's own work is only fair.
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 08:58:16 -0800
From:         djl@MAILHOST.PP.PDX.EDU
Subject: Re: "An Honest Thief"
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

I don't recall "An Honest Thief," but I certainly have read "Catcher in the
Rye."  One of my favorite high school teachers was always talking about it,
so I read it and it didn't make that great an impression.  I was a big man
on campus in high school, and didn't relate to alienation that much -- even
though I was alienated from most of my peers and my culture.  I just didn't
realize it at the time.  The book meant a lot more to me when I reread it
in college.
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 09:51:00 EST
From:         Eston Martz <EMARTZ@A1.PSUPEN.PSU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Meals in Literature
Comments: To: "LESLIER@USCN.BITNET@pmdfgate@P" <LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

Leslie R. queries:
>     On the same subject--how about that wonderful Danish film
of several years ago--"Someone's Feast"?  Bernadette? That
doesn't sound right--ah, the name has escaped me.  Help,
anyone?
------------
Never saw the flick, but I believe its title was "Babbette's Feast."

Yours,
Eston
EMARTZ@PSUPEN.PSU.EDU

"And now for the complete restructure of your pretentious life..."
	--Mark E. Smith
From: PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET (Tim Johnson)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: Number of books owned
Date: 5 Nov 92 03:09:28 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

>Actually, following Richard Bleiler's post on having "between 3000 and 3500
>books in my accumulation," I truly thought we were talking about numbers in
>one's collection (and the numbers I offered were approximations) and my
>collection is at about that number. I've read just under 7000 of them. I
>checked my math again, MM, and I fail to see what you are querying about. VMS

  Probably this - estimate an inch of width per book, that's 12 books
per linear foot.  At a foot of height per shelf, that's about 100 books
per linear foot of wall space.  Say a typical spare bedroom is about
10x15, that's 50 feet of wall space, or 5,000 books.  Your collection,
then, should be about 4 bedrooms of wall to wall books, a fairly
substantial commitment of space, but not unbelievable.  (1 inch is
a relatively slim volume for hardcover, though....  Adjust the figures
as necessary.  Season to taste.  Serve warm over rice.)

                                -Tim
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 12:29:05 CST
From:         Richard Scott - Metro CC <rscott@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Autobiography
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

>
> I spoke with a friend of mine last night who teaches English at a
> Canadian university. He is planning to teach a class on autobiography
> next year and would like to include material from women writers. He
> is particularly interested in autobiographical views of coming of
> age, identity formation, and maturation. Does anyone have
> suggestions? He has tentatively planned using Maxine Hong Kingston's
> "China Men" and needs to expand his resources.
>
> Thank you
> Chelley@hup.ucla.edu
>
Perhaps you would also like to look at Beryl Markham's "West with the Night"
a wonderfully writted book that includes all three aspects you mentioned in
your post.

Regards

Richard Scott
Metropolitan Community College
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 07:23:56 EST
From:         DZL <livewell@SIAM.ORG>
Subject:      Re[2]: The Sensual Book
Comments: To: djl@pp.pdx.edu, LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

          I'd appreciate it if you could post the address when you get
          a chance.

          Dave L.
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:52:47 -0500
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: skyn of houndfyssh

David, Paul's rather murky reading of Chaucer aside, I'd like to voice my
appreciation to you for those "quotes of the day."  They are often lines
I haven't heard before, and have provided me with a lot of smiles, a lot
of wit and wisdom.

m mcdonald
From: GS0383@SPRINGB.BITNET (MW)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Meals in Literature
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:21:18 GMT
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Ever since I was a kid and read _Heidi_ I have loved to eat plain cheese on a
piece of bread. Heidi's grandfather got me started.
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 07:52:43 -0800
From:         djl@MAILHOST.PP.PDX.EDU
Subject:      Quote of the Day
Comments: To: WRITERS@NDSUVM1.BITNET

As unlikely as it may sound, I've never been able to discuss the amount of
money offered to me when I sign a contract.  Either I accept or refuse, but I
never argue.  I don't think I've ever done something for money that I didn't
want to do;  and when I don't want to do something, no offer can change my
mind.  What I won't do for one dollar, I also won't do for a million.
                                                              -- Luis Bunuel
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 13:54:20 CST
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From:         MW <GS0383@SPRINGB.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Sensual Book

Deming, I too don't like those irritating paper covers but can't bring myself
to throw them out. Often I fold them up neatly and stick them in the middle of
the book.

I agree it's difficult to keep books when you're not permanently settled in
one place- I've had to move loads of them two or three times and the load just
ke eps getting heavier and heavier, filling up all the extra space in the
house and now the garage. But every time there is a used book sale I go
gung-ho, I grab everything I can get my hands on and usually end up with a
backache and bruises and everything, but to me it is worth it. Melanie
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:40:38 -0500
From:         "(Fra' PierCiccio da Napoli)" <cirillo@BUCHMF.BU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Meals in Literature
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

I think it's Babette's feast, directed by G Axel (1987)
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Posted-Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 16:43:34 EST
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 16:43:34 EST
From:         "(MM)" <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Virgin Books
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

The analogy is so broad. To possess and mutilate a book might be better
understood as rearranging its chapters, rewriting its sentences--is any
other kind of reading empty or false. Must I paint over a painting to
enjoy it. The respect, or particular sort of interest, however exaggerated,
for the physicality of the book, might just as easily correspond to the
respect for the text. I'm sure Paul took care to quote the poem excerpt
carefully, even using the old spelling. Why not really take possesion
by translating it into up-to-date spelling, changing a few things to make
the point come through stronger.

I don't mean to say that analogies can't be helpful, or provide interesting
associations, but they usually don't do more than that with any degree of
certainty. .
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 16:34:17 CST
From:         steve harris <SPAM@TAMVM1.BITNET>
              3 Nov 1992 15:36:10 -0800 from <djl@MAILHOST.PP.PDX.EDU>

I think a lot of what we're now discussing refers back to the discussion
about writerly intent.  Who, exactly, does the text "belong" to anyway.
Not to get into the previous argument about unpublished works--but I
say, once a work is published, the text "belongs" to whoever is reading
it at the moment.  Some people might be more considerate of possible
future readers, but some might not.  So be it.

steve h.
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:49:46 EST
From:         B7SR000 <B7SR@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
Subject:      Conrad and Jane Anderson. Help!
Comments: To: LITERARY@UCF1VM.

I am doing a research project on Jane Anderson and Joesph Conrad. The

two are supposed to have had an affair while Conrad was living in

Maissaille (excuse my spelling it is late!!). I now that something has

been written about this but I just do not know where. I have searched

the CD-ROM at my university but to no avail. Does anyone know if an

article has been written about their relationship? If so where can I

find it and in what issue of the particular magazine. I am really

struggling with this topic. All I know is that Jane later became a Nazi,

but I haven't read anything remotely substantial on the subject. Your

help will be greatly appreciated.

Hadley Stern

Montreal, Canada.
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 08:08:16 EST
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Italo Calvino

On Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:42:06 -0500 <S1MBM@ISUVAX> said:
>David, I strongly recommend *If on a winter's night a traveler* and
>*Cosmicomics
>   --the first story in *Cosmicomics* may be the most intriguing short story
>I'v
>   e
>ever read (right up there with Joyce's "The Sisters," anyway), and the first
>book cited here is a great deal of maddening fun, methinks.
>
>michael mcdonald

Anyone liking =Cosmicomics= will almost certainly like =Tau Zero=, also (or
is that =T Zero=?  It's been awhile, and the memory is volatile. . . .).
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:18:40 -0500
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: heroines

Michael, I have indeed read "To Room 19," and have found that undergraduates
(at least, one particularly sensitive group of undergrads) can be just as
moved by this work as you or me.  This is also a story where to call the
protagonist "heroic" would be completely inappropriate!  She is surely
pathetic, and I think not tragic at all.  Her situation is surely tragic,
but the story is written in such a way as to deny her sufficient *agency*
to be tragic in her own right, methinks.

m mcdonald
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:02:54 EST
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: skyn of houndfyssh

On Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:40:00 EST <saspdm@MVS.SAS.COM> said:
>> I assure you that mutilating my new sailboat would not only compromise my
>> enjoyment of it, but would quite possibly prove fatal.
>
>did you ever settle on a name?  is this the one that
>was potentially "Gravity's"?

Not as yet, and yes, this is the same one.  The name-this-artifact competition
is still open. . . .
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