HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dawson, was: Re: GMaddux to Test Free Agency Waters
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:34:14 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <1992Jul27.155444.25257@tamsun.tamu.edu> rlm7638@tamsun.tamu.edu (Jack McKinney) writes:
>dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:

>>We should see 25 HR out of almost *any* hitter with any power at all, if he
>>plays half his games in Wrigley.  25 HR in Wrigley is not impressive.  For
>>Andre, who no longer has his speed or defense, and never had any OBP, 25 HR
>>is totally inadequate, since it represents the greater part of his personal
>>contribution to the offense.

>     The standard by which he was to be judged was 25 HR just a couple of
>articles ago. 

My claim was that .290 and 25+ HRs was what he needed to be
"adequate" offensively.  Is he hitting .290?  Is he helping
the Cubs?  Comparing him to other Cubs just points out that
the Cubs offense stinks, not that Andre is particularly
valuable.  And we need to project him to the future - is
he likely to hit better next year than this year?  If not,
how bad is he likely to be?  What sort of injury risk is he,
after *7* knee operations, playing in a non-DH league?
And a multi year contract means you have to think about
how he'll play at age 40.

It's really hard not to believe that you are taking a huge
gamble.  The big question is whether you can get your money's
worth, and if you could maybe get by with, say, Dwight Smith
and Barry Bonds... :-)

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Past World Series
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:01:37 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <Brur22.LsL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (BEACH VOLLEYBALL!!!) writes:
>
>1991: Twins over Braves 4-3
>1990: Reds over A's 4-0
>1989: A's over Giants 4-0
>1988: Dodgers over A's 4-1
>1987: Twins over Cardinals  (memory starting to fail me)

	4-3, all games won at home

>1986: Mets over Red Sox 

	4-3 also, wasn't it?

>1985: Royals over Cardinals???

	Right.  4-3

>1984: Tigers over Padres
>1983: Orioles and Cardinals???

	Orioles over Philadelphia, 4-2(?)



-- 
        David Tate         |   When I was a rookie arm and bit 
  dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu  |   And the greenest hurler to take the mound
  Prof. of Story Problems  |   (Sighed the old southpaw, dying of innings)...
  Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR  | 	"Lament", Dylan 'Big Frank' Thomas
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: djohnson@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (David Johnson)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:06:10 GMT

In article <3683@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
>In article <BrwIx1.5uM@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>>
>>The managers job is to make decisions the players job is to perform and do
>>the job the manager tells him to.  
>
>Historically, yes.  However, it is quickly becoming apparent that this is
>not the best way to run things, nor even an O.K.  way.  I'm not going
>to hold my breath waiting for Total Quality Management principles to be
>adopted by major league baseball franchises, though...
>
>The manager's *job* is to do whatever is necessary to optimize production 
>from himself and the people he is managing, over the long term, in an
>environment of continuous improvement and mutual support.  

It is not the players job to make these decisions though.  If he disagrees
with the manager he can tell the manager this but the final decision is
up to the manager and the players job is to perform that duty the manager
gives to him.  

>-- 
>        David Tate         |  "Complacencies of the fungo, and late 
>  dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu  |   Infield and B.P. in a sunny field
>     "Sunday Afternoon"    |   [...]         mingle to dissipate
>  Wallace "Vern" Stevens   |   The holy hush of Pastime National..."

--David Johnson
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 6669030@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Metrodome roof/et.al. was Re: Aturf
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 17:28:11 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
>In article <64110@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccastmm@prism.gatech.EDU (Mike Marler) writ
>>
>>Here in Atlanta, we HATE the "homerdome" after last October.  And by the
>>way you can ask Lonnie Smith about not only how hard it is to pick
>>up the ball in that ballpark, but how hard it is to pick up the third
>>base coach.   :-)
>
>Three things:
>
>1) It's not the Homerdome. MetroDome is only average as far as homeruns
>   goes. It's been this way since they installed air condition, put up
>   the Blue Meanie in right and raised the left field walls with plexiglass.
>
>2) This sounds silly coming from a team that plays in "The Launching Pad".
>
>3) Lonnie Smith needs no help from the MetroDome roof when it comes to
>   losing fly balls. He's been doing it for years. I do think the problem
>   with third base coaches is something new. B{)
>--
>  Lance "Zeppelin" Smith      | "O hateful error, melancholy's stat!
>   (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)        |  Why dost thou show, to the idle thoughts of>
>Prove it! Show us your work!  |  Mediots, the things that are not!
>   Huh? What's your point?    |                 _Jose Caesar_, V. iii. 67>

Dittos!!!!  As a fan of the Twins I don't particularly care for the
Dome either...but I love the squad that plays there.

Will you "12-sandwich-eating-Bob-Costas-clone-purists" please stop
telling everybody where and how baseball was meant to be played!!!

Doubleday is dead!!!  He's been dead a long time.  Leave him alone!!!


Billy K.  - A big fan of Lance "_______" Smith.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:23:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.204625.25832@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>In article <Brsz01.88L@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>>>>>>If Rance Mulliniks, Derek Bell, and Rob Ducey don't think that a .300 hitter
>>>>>>15HR and 50 RBI man so far shouldn't be playing then they shouldn't be
>>>>>>considered team players as well.  
>
>>Yes.  Derek's job is to play when asked to.  If he has a problem with another
>>player, lack of playing time etc he should speak to the management about
>>this.
>
>I'm still somewhat confused by the juxtaposition of these two statements by
>you.  I got the impression from your first statement that if Derek Bell
>were to complain about the good stat, bad attitude player playing instead
>of him, you would consider him not to be a team player.  That's my issue.
>Do you think it's not being a team player to think, or to suggest to
>management, that another player on the team shouldn't be there?

What I am saying is that there is a good way and a bad way in dealing with
a problem with other players or managers. If Derek feels that Winfield
a problem in the clubhouse then the good way to deal with this is to
discuss it with the manager or upper management.  If the management feels
that Derek has a reasonable complaint then I am sure that they would do
something about it.  If it is not a reasonable complaint and Derek thinks
that it is going to affect his play then Derek has every right to ask for
a trade or whatever he wants to ask for.  On the other hand, a bad way to
deal with the problem is to speak out to other team members, fans and
media.  This only makes the problem bigger and well known.  Also if other
teams get the impression that Winfield or any other player is a problem
then that will make a trade that much harder and the bad situation
continues.

>
>Sherri Nichols
>snichols@adobe.com
>

--David Johnson
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sieferme@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Subject: Re: EXTRA!  ACKER WAIVED BY SEATTLE MARINERS
Keywords: acker, release, waived, bye-bye, binaca blast, seattle, pennant?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:42:23 GMT

The news of the unconditional waiver of one Acker by the Mariners
was mentioned in the local paper.  Oddly, the Seattle Times devoted
only a single line in a sidebar burried deep in the sports section
to this important story, thereby showing their warped sense
of priorities.

One might assume that the departure of the Ack would immediately
change the fortunes of the M's.  However, the dismal performance
of the M's in the past two games indicates that the strength of
the Ack-Geist is more powerful than anyone imagined.

If we assume that this is the final chapter in his noteworthy
career, and that he will not make a series of unexpected
returns like Jason Voorhees, note the following fact:  Jim Acker 
finished his final season without a loss.  This should allow him
to be remembered in a similar way to Ted Williams, who hit 
a home run in his final at bat.

More memories to follow ...

-- 
| Eric Sieferman            |   ___ George Bush                      |
| U. of W., M.C.I.S.        |   ___ Bill Clinton                     |
| sieferme@u.washington.edu |   WF_ H. Ross Perot (withdrew, failing)|
|                           |   ___ Gamera                           |
From: michael@drutx.ATT.COM (J. Michael Butters)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Best Looking Swing
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:49:26 GMT
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO

One of the swings I enjoy watching the most is when a tape of Babe Ruth
is shown (no suprise he had a beautiful swing). Any one else notice this?

J. Michael Butters
AT&T Bell Labs
Denver 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: Re: Cubs totally finished with Maddux?
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:31:43 GMT

In article l7fojrINN4in@cronkite, andy@sunbird.Central.Sun.COM (Andy Knipp Metro SE) writes:
>I would be surprised to see Maddux traded now.  It must be done by August
>first (or other teams can muck the trade).  The Cubs look to be in the 
>pennant race, albeit with a sub 500 record (barely).  
>

That is the biggest obstacle now. If the Cubs stay in the hunt in the NLEast,
they have no choice but to keep Maddux. If they had been wiped out by the
Buckos this week, Maddux  would've been moved. Now, we may have to bid
with the other clubs to keep his services.

--Stan Macasieb (stanm@comm.mot.com)
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Another 'Fundamental' Loss the NYM
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:14:06 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <1992Jul21.040927.26075@afit.af.mil> cscott@csc.afit.af.mil writes:
>
>As was the case with ex-manager Bud Harrelson (another 'I pledge to stress
>the fundamentals'-manager that did the reverse!), the Mets appear 
>lackluster even when they win games.  The Mets are a team that, for the 
>most part, does not have the 'will to win.'  It's hard to tell where it 
>went--maybe Davey Johnson took it with him? :-)

I'm not sure why you need to invoke "will to win".  To me, the Mets look
like a team that is hitting and fielding exactly the way 2/3 of the net
predicted that they would at the beginning of the season, and has gotten
about the kind of pitching that many were afraid they would get.

In short, the Mets are playing exactly the way many of the netsters predicted
they would, and everyone is shocked and dismayed.



-- 
       David Tate        |"Out of the dugout endlessly swinging,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | Out of the manager's throat, the sound fundamentals,
 Prof. of Story Problems | Out of the six-month season..."            
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR | 	Walt "Lefty" Whitman
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for SS'
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 23:30:12 GMT

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Barry Larkin, Cincinnati	6.31
Ozzie Smith, St. Louis		5.56
Spike Owen, Montreal		5.10
Jose Offerman, Los Angeles	4.73
Tony Fernandez, San Diego	4.65
Jay Bell, Pittsburgh		4.50
Jose Uribe, San Francisco	4.19
Royce Clayton, San Francisco	3.18
Rafael Ramirez, Houston		3.14
Rey Sanchez, Chicago		3.13
Dick Schofield, New York	3.04
Rafael Belliard, Atlanta	2.47	(Blauser has a 4.21)
Andujar Cedeno, Houston		2.47
Jose Vizcaino, Chicago		2.18
Kim Batiste, Philadelphia	2.06

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Travis Fryman, Detroit		5.80
Mike Bordick, Oakland		5.62
Andy Stankiewicz, New York	5.56
Pat Listach, Milwaukee		5.47
Cal Ripken, Baltimore		5.13
Omar Vizquel, Seattle		4.97
Craig Grebeck, Chicago		4.41
Dickie Thon, Texas		4.29
Manuel Lee, Toronto		4.16
Randy Velarde, New York		3.77
Walt Weiss, Oakland		3.73
Mark Lewis, Cleveland		3.70
Greg Gagne, Minnesota		3.65
Gary DiSarcina, California	3.40
Rico Rossy, Kansas City		3.20	(But David Howard has a 0.98... :-))
Luis Rivera, Boston		2.99
Curtis Wilkerson, Kansas City	2.74

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: lsmith@cs.umn.edu (Lance "Not Here" Smith)
Subject: Re: Observations on World Series Winners
Organization: The Little Spiders of the Poor
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:30:26 GMT

In article <BrwEq0.FIA@mail.boi.hp.com> rdetweil@hpbs1026.boi.hp.com (Richard Detweiler) writes:
>
> Of the original 16 clubs the following have stayed put:
>
> NL                                  AL
> =========================           =========================
> Chicago Cubs                        New York Yankees
> St. Louis Cardinals                 Boston Red Sox (were the Beaneaters?)
> Pittsburgh Pirates                  Cleveland Indians
> Philadelphia Phillies               Detroit Tigers
> Cincinnati Reds                     Chicago White Sox

I missed the original discussion, but let me just throw in that 
there was National League franchise in Cleveland before the Indians.
(The Spyders who were actually a farm club in disguise...) Pittsburgh
is also an amalgamation of two teams. 

> And expansion teams that have moved:
>
> NL                                  AL
> =========================           =========================
>                                     Seattle Mariners

They have? Someone better tell the people at Nintendo America that
their team is on the loose.
-- 
   Lance "Zeppelin" Smith      | "O hateful error, melancholy's stat!
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)        |  Why dost thou show, to the idle thoughts of
 Prove it! Show us your work!  |  Mediots, the things that are not!
    Huh? What's your point?    |                 _Jose Caesar_, V. iii. 67           
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for Cs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 17:01:23 GMT

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Don Slaught, Pittsburgh		8.42
Darren Daulton, Philadelphia	7.46
Dan Walters, San Diego		5.53
Tom Pagnozzi, St. Louis		4.98
Greg Olson, Atlanta		4.95	(so, why is Berryhill playing at all?)
Mike LaValliere, Pittsburgh	4.22
Joe Oliver, Cincinnati		4.20
Joe Girardi, Chicago		4.03
Charlie O'Brien, New York	3.62
Benito Santiago, San Diego	3.46
Damon Berryhill, Atlanta	3.28
Mike Scioscia, Los Angeles	3.16
Gary Carter, Montreal		3.14
Carlos Hernandez, Los Angeles	3.13
Eddie Taubensee, Houston	2.78
Todd Hundley, New York		2.66
Scott Servais, Houston		1.88

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Chris Hoiles, Baltimore		8.73
Mickey Tettleton, Detroit	6.62
Jeff Tackett, Baltimore		6.11
Terry Steinbach, Oakland	5.97
Brian Harper, Minnesota		5.55
Ivan Rodriguez, Texas		5.16
Pat Borders, Toronto		4.53
Dave Valle, Seattle		4.28
Matt Nokes, New York		3.72
B. J. Surhoff, Milwaukee	3.41
Ron Karkovice, Chicago		3.36
Mike Macfarlane, Kansas City	3.36
Sandy Alomar, Cleveland		3.20
Mike Fitzgerald, California	3.20
Tony Pena, Boston		2.82

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for CFs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 00:19:35 GMT

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Andy Van Slyke, Pittsburgh	9.66
Deion Sanders, Atlanta		7.65
Ray Lankford, St. Louis		6.66 (is he the anti-Christ? :-))
Reggie Sanders, Cincinnati	6.24
Otis Nixon, Atlanta		6.06
Brett Butler, Los Angeles	5.87
Lenny Dykstra, Philadelphia	5.73
Marquis Grissom, Montreal	5.40
Steve Finley, Houston		5.39
Darrin Jackson, San Diego	4.95
Howard Johnson, New York	4.66
Dave Martinez, Cincinnati	4.19
Sammy Sosa, Chicago		3.71
Doug Dascenzo, Chicago		3.13
Darren Lewis, San Francisco	3.09

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Kirby Puckett, Minnesota	8.06
Ken Griffey, Seattle		7.04
Mike Devereaux, Baltimore	5.94
Juan Gonzalez, Texas		5.28
Ellis Burks, Boston		5.22
Roberto Kelly, New York		5.14
Robin Yount, Milwaukee		4.82
Kenny Lofton, Cleveland		4.40
Junior Felix, California	4.25
Devon White, Toronto		4.25 (how ironic...)
Willie Wilson, Oakland		4.12
Lance Johnson, Chicago		3.62
Brian McRae, Kansas City	3.57
Milt Cuyler, Detroit		2.89

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:00:18 GMT

In article <Bs3tD5.3wv@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (David Johnson) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.231008.4682@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>
>>It depends upon whether the player is performing adequately at his job or
>>not, what the needs of the team are, and what I could get for him.  I
>>certainly wouldn't automatically trade him because he publically
>>complained.  Public complaints may be just as strong a sign of managerial
>>shortcomings as any problem with the player himself.
>
>Assume the player is filling a good role as a backup, say a fourth outfielder,
>He doesn't play a lot but is now causing problems in the Clubhouse, but the
>team still needs a player to fill his role as backup if injuries occur.  Would
>you trade him for a player with good off field qualities and equal on field
>numbers.

We're really starting to get far afield here from the original topic of
discussion, but anyway...

No, I wouldn't particularly be inclined to trade the player, though I
suppose it would depend on exactly what the nature of those "problems" in
the clubhouse were.  I don't think it's necessary for everyone on the team
to like each other, any more than I think it's necessary for me to like
everyone I work with.   

Why wouldn't I trade him, if I could get a guy with equal on-field numbers?
Well, why should I trade, if I've already got that player?  As we've been
through, I have no way of knowing whether that hypothetical other player's
"good off-field qualities" are real or just a result of him presenting
himself well to the media, and I have no way of knowing whether his
particular "good off field qualities" will actually fit in well with my
club, much less whether it makes any difference or not.  Besides, if my
current player has the reputation of being clubhouse trouble, the other GM
is less likely to want to take that player in exchange for the hypothetical
other player.  

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: rambhask@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (Rambhaskar J. )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: rec.sport.baseball.college rec.sport.baseball.fantasy rec.sport.basketball.college rec.sport.basketball.misc rec.sport.basketball.pro rec.sport.football.misc rec.sport.football.pro
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:40:03 GMT
Organization: College Of Engg. & Tech., Ohio University. Athens
Originator: rambhask@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu



Hello netters,

Does anybody have a list of well known names of basketball,football
baseball teams.
Please mail them to me cause I am don't read this group
  regularly. 
rambhask@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu

Rambhaskar J.
-- 
Rambhaskar J.
Asst. Sys. Administrator,
College of Engg. And Tech.,
Ohio University, Athens, OH
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: jlundy@bilbo.encore.com (Dick Burns)
Subject: Re: DICKS THAT SHOULD BE IN OTHER GROUPS
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:07:12 GMT

In article <92207.044326JIMBO@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, JIMBO@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
|> I'M SO SICK OF SEEING THIS :=) IN A NEWSGROUP DEVOTED TO
|> THE LOVE OF SPORTS THAT I DEMAND THAT IT CEASES. GOT A PROBLEM ?
|> SEE ME PERSONALLALY!

I agree.  The spotted owl should be able to come and go in Bosnia as it pleases.
And furthermore, WWF wrestling should be on Olympic event.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dick Burns          Richard Harris Appreciation Society.                  |
| dburns@gobots.com                                                         |
| "Party 'till it's 1999" - John Stuart Mill                                |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rstimets@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Realignment question
Date: 31 Jul 92 03:31:30 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <19842@optima.cs.arizona.edu> dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal) writes:
>
>I was under the impression that realignment was supposed to save teams
>travel money.  I can't understand this.  ESPN showed a graphic stating that
>the cost of the Astros' 28 day road trip was something like $10,000.  

This can't be right.  It would cost ME 6-7 thousand dollars in air travel,
lodging, etc, just to follow the team around on their trip.
Maybe it's $10K per player, or per day.

>How much money is really going to be saved by, say, the Reds flying to
>the West Coast 2 times instead of 3 per year?
>
>Can someone help me out here?  Where is the big savings?
>
>--dave

RStimets
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball