HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: blokhead@leland.Stanford.EDU (Darren Pakying Lum)
Subject: Re: Dallas Q & A :  Part II
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 06:10:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.212703.16567@aero.org> mas@aero.org (Marcus A.Shaw) writes:
>More answers to my own questions...
>
>Q: What is going to happen with the offensive holdouts?
>A:	<Stuff Deleted..............>
	............................
	............................
>Irvin and Novacek, on the other hand, are much
>less likely to sign.  I believe that Novacek will be in before Irvin;
>I see Irvin as much less likely to bend to the coaches threats.  Even
>though Novacek has a stronger bargaining position, everything I have
>seen indicates that the he and the Cowboys are closer to a deal than
>Irvin.  I am not sure Irvin is asking for realistic money at all.

Agreed...Novacek can get the money he wants because there is not one 
comparable to replace him.  Irvin is another story...It has been reported
that he rejected a contract worth 1.2 million a year because a third of
that money was incentives.  He wants more money than what Rison rejected.
Thats a lot of money...but don't you think that he's worth it?  If Ace 
doesn't pan out then you got Martin and Harper.  (Is Smith still injured?
If not how's he doing in camp?)  I think that Irvin is an integral part of 
the team as a player and a leader.  He has a very strong work ethic that 
has to rub off onto the other players.  I hate to see a long drawn out
holdout that could create bad blood between Irvin and the JJ's.  It's times
like these that I think the JJ's aren't as smart as everyone now seems to 
think.  I feel that they don't treat their vets like they deserve to be 
treated.  If we're "stuck" without Irvin, the team isn't in trouble...it 
has very talented and capable receivers down the depth chart.  Without 
Irvin though, the team is missing a star player with leadership, flash, and
the desire and ability to win.

I say sign Irvin for that 1.5 million dollar contract with partial incentive
clauses.  Yeah, the 'Boys payroll is high and Emmitt's contract is up 
next year...but you're talking about the Pro Bowl MVP here.  Jerry Rice 
is asking for what...guaranteed "Montana Money"?  Thats like a couple 
million a year right?  I don't know what the top receivers are earning, but
don't you all think that Irvin should be paid money similar to the league's
best receivers?

<Stuff deleted..............................>

Go Cowboys!!
Darren
From: mzener@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Green & NFL's Fastest Man
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:13:47 GMT
 <1992Aug17.171221.22673@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> 
 <1992Aug17.182045.2427@linus.mitre.org> <1992Aug17.200043.12295@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
Organization: Wesleyan University

golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:

>How many years has it been since Green bothered entering the "NFL's fastest
>man" competition?

   He won it last year (and the year before that, and the year before that...).
He didn't enter this year's race.  Maybe he would've won, maybe not.  Either
way, he's still damned fast.

Max
From: imprint@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (IMPRINT -- UW's Student Newspaper)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Worst Rules in NFL
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:54:19 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <1992Aug14.185133.15324@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> ded@aplcen (nod sivad) writes:
>>I just thought of another rule that I can't stand. [...] that QB's can 
>>"down themselves" by sliding feet 1st.  What about the games where because of
>>rainfall, the field becomes a water slide, should the QB get an extra 5 yards
>>because he can slide? 
>
>Hmmm.  What exactly is the rule here?  Really, any runner can slide; the
>ball isn't downed until they are touched.  Is it against the rules for
>a tackler to stop the QB's forward momentum when he's sliding?
>
>>Also along the same lines, I can't the "in the grasp" rule!  
>
>This was changed to a much more reasonable rule last season. 
>For once, the complaints of fans were answered.
If a running back or receiver slides feet first and a defender lands on top 
of them, it's a tackle.
If a QB does the same thing and so does a defender, the defence will be 
penalized for a late hit.

Peter Brown
--
From: vreddy@pappus.uucp (Venkatesh Reddy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Worst Rules in NFL
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:05:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Aug14.200524.1568
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <1992Aug14.185539.27760@colorado.edu> davewood@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (David Rex Wood) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.144740.25428@das.harvard.edu> vreddy@das.harvard.edu (Venkatesh Reddy) writes:
>>In article <MeWkHBW00WDKM8rnFe@andrew.cmu.edu>, Vernon H Harmon <vh00+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>|> >
>>|> be encouraged and was part of the home field advantage.  What do you guys
>>|> think the worst is?
>>|> >
>>|> 
>>|> personally, I think the "immediate spike" to stop the clock is a shitty
>>|> rule. Sure you lose a down but so what!? teams in the past have managed
>>|> to make the play, there's no reason why teams nowadays should get that
>>|> added bonus...
>>|> 
>>
>>It's NOT a bonus. Actually, it's a penalty. The "spike" is ruled as
>>"intentional grounding", and a yardage penalty (5 I think) is assessed.
>>It`s actually a concession to stop the clock. That way, if the QB needs 
>>a huddle to get his line in gear, he doesn't run the clock while doing it.
>>
>
>This is not a penalty.  The "spike" is a replacement for what used to be the
>intentional incompletion to the sideline.
>
>(other stuff deleted)
>

AHA! Well, in that case, I agree about the rule being not-so-great. If
it were a penalty, like intentional grounding, then it would be OK.

>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>David Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder
>  BRONCOS!!        R.S.F.P. Internet Football Pool Organizer        BRONCOS!!
>               Owner, Boulder Houlders --- Owner, Colorado 14ers


-- Venk --
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: lej@pdn.paradyne.com (Leo James)
Subject: Re: Ken Swilling info wanted
Keywords: Bucs, Swilling, cut?
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:21:43 GMT

In article <66249@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN,AVRON P) writes:
>
>Do any Bucs fans, or anyone else, have info on the status of Ken Swilling.
>I heard that he signed, but I've yet to hear if he's played.  I also heard that
>the Broncos showed just how sad the Bucs secondary is.  Is Swilling being used
>as a LB or a DB?  I heard he was being tried at LB which to me makes less sense
>than at DB, because the Bucs have some decent LB's already.  Whereas, they 
>definitely need anybody they can get in the secondary.  BTW, did anyone else
>see the game against the Falcons?  If so, what did you think of the good
>performances turned in by Vinny and Ray Seales?

Yes, Ken is here, but he has not distinguished himself thus far in this
camp.  Very few playes in the NFL could dis-lodge Broderick Thomas, but
with the holdout of Kevin Murphy, there was an opportunity for Ken to
win a job here.  He was seen more as a LB than a DB by Floyd Peters be-
cause of his size (he's around 245 here) I believe.  There was hope that
he would perform similarly to his cousin Pat Swilling of the Saints but
that has not come to pass.

Now, the secondary.  When you're evaluating a Floyd Peters backfield re-
member that he has them playing man-to-man virtually throughout the game.
They are going to give up a big pass play from time to time (especially
now as we have holdouts both in the secondary and on the DL), but every-
thing is predicated on the passrush that we're beginning to get from Ray
Seals, Keith McCants, Broderick Thomas, Mark Wheeler (remember that name),
and will be getting from Reggie Rogers who has looked great in camp but
has not played in the first two pre-season games due to a "turf toe" in-
jury he incurred when two teammates, embroiled in a fight, fell on him.
curred
--
+---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|Leopold E. James     | "A heart, a soul, AND | AT&T Paradyne         |
|ph: (813) 530-8425   |  a mind are terrible  | P.O. Box 2826, LG-132,|
|lej@pdn.paradyne.com |  things to waste."    | Largo, FL 34649 (USA) |
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Worst Rules in NFL
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:26:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: murdoch.1992Aug13.202637.4912
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <65913@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN,AVRON P) writes:
>
>I'm just curious as to what the opinions are out there as to the absolute
>SINGLE worst rule the NFL currently has.  There are some pretty bad ones out
>there.  IMHO, the worst has to be the rule allowing a penalty to be called
>on a home team for "excessive crowd noise."  I always thought that was to
>be encouraged and was part of the home field advantage.  What do you guys
>think the worst is?

While I agree that the above rule is dumbdumbdumb ("Yes, you paid for the
ticket to see your team win, yes you are paying my salary, but if you yell
too much well penalize yer team"), my least favorite is:

No 2 point conversion.

Why not? It makes a 21-13 game with 1:10 left and the trailing team driving
much more exciting. Why wont the NFL add this rule? Now that "instant" replay
is gone, this is my bggest beef with NFL rules....

-rob
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: davewood@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (David Rex Wood)
Subject: Plan B?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:39:07 GMT

Could someone explain exactly how Plan-B Free Agency works?  I think I have
a general idea, but don't know all the details.

Thanks.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder
  BRONCOS!!        R.S.F.P. Internet Football Pool Organizer        BRONCOS!!
               Owner, Boulder Houlders --- Owner, Colorado 14ers
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: tech@cs.ucf.edu (Tony Travaglini)
Subject: Re: Dolphins/Cowboys results
Organization: University of Central Florida, Orlando
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:38:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.130529.24366@devildog.att.com> eddie@acpy01.att.com (Eddie Adamko (CXNIXPT1)) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.195851.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu> 11telliott@gallua.gallaudet.edu (Zarathustra) writes:
>>Someone mentioned about Jim "Crash" Jensen. I want to see this point through-
>>quite enough to reach to the Super Bowl level. In cutting Jim, they will have
>						^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>When did this happen?????
>
I didn't. At least it hasn't yet. I merely wrote that he could
possibly be expendable this year. 
	      
Tony (go new england) Travaglini
tech@cs.ucf.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jeff@neuron.cs.tamu.edu (Jeff Goldberg)
Subject: Houston Oilers
Reply-To: Jeff@cs.tamu.edu
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Texas A&M University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 07:53:20 GMT

Any Oiler fans left out there?  Getting kind of quiet, I expected to see
some discussion about my favorite pro team in here.

I saw only parts of the game last night in which Houston stomped the New
Orleans Saints 33-3.  Looks like the Oilers are playing very well both
on offense and defense right now.  During the time I was watching, I was
especially impressed with Harris (receiving and punt returning) and with
the entire defense.

If Sean Jones, Fuller, and Dishman return the defense looks like it
*could* be outstanding.  Offensively, with the return of Munchak and
Duncan, I can't think of any weaknesses, except maybe for the dropoff
from the first to second quarterback.  What would happen to this team if
Moon gets hurt or finally goes on strike due to contract frustrations?

Lets hear something from some of you Houston fans; don't you get tired
of only hearing about those Cowboys - who aren't nearly the team that
the Oilers are I might add.

And, how about Bucky Richardson.  Will he become the number 3
quarterback?  I missed the drive he lead towards the end of the game.
Did he look as impressive as in the previous games?
--
           Jeff Goldberg                        
           College Station, Texas       
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Highest paid player
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:25:39 GMT

swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams) writes:

>>After all this talk about Rypien now being the second highest paid
>>player,
>>
>>  Who is the highest paid player?

>Miami's Dan Marino, who makes about $4.4 million per season.

If you count the CFL, R. "The Rocket" Ismail makes around $24 million
over 4 years with the Toronto Argonaughts. (That's $6 million per year.)

I think there are some extra incentives (ownership options, etc) on top
of that...

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro,rec.sport.football.college
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: Benno's prediction
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:19:49 GMT

bill@gaza.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (William J. King) writes:
>
>Beano Cook doesn't just pick Notre Dame to win the college 
>football national championship this year. Says Cook: "If they 
>played on Sundays, they might just go 9-7

This is absurd.  Notre Dame cannot play on Sundays, because all the
coaches and players must go to church.  If they played on Sundays,
they wouldn't be God's team.  They's be Satan's plaything, like the
Miami Hurricanes, and we all know what the Rev. Buddy Ryan said to the
sinner Jimmy Johnson about the difference between the college game and
the pros.


>After a misque like that

I said CHURCH, not MOSQUE.  What's going on here.


--Gidi


Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
Subject: Re: No Draft Next Year?!
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:50:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.212608.24207@macc.wisc.edu>
heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	) writes: 

#>>If you want 
#>>to work on the line at GM you *have* to join the UAW and you *have* to 
#>>follow their rules.

#Greg said that the 
#players are going to have to go along with being drafted but he gave 
#an incorrect reason why.  I simply gave the correct reason.  

Acutally, althought we phrased it differently, we gave the same
reason. 

--
-Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia
 USPS Mail:     Astronomy Department, Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 USA
 Internet:      gsh7w@virginia.edu  
 UUCP:		...!uunet!virginia!gsh7w
From: vh00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Vernon H Harmon)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: ?Vikes,Lions,Houston,Atlanta
Date: 14 Aug 92 01:21:30 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I'm interested in finding out about the training camp standouts for the
Vikes, Lions, Oilers and Falcons. Haven't heard much about specific
players from these teams.

thanks for any info.
--Vernon.
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 08:55:13 -0400 
From: Vernon H Harmon <vh00+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Trade ideas

>Or how about Berstine for Brister?

*don't* even suggest that...PLEASE! :)

--Vernon.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: cooperr@a.cs.okstate.edu (COOPER ROBERT BRYA)
Subject: Re: Ty Detmer and other Heisman winners
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 15:17:55 GMT

>> bokenko@CS.ColoState.EDU (jeffrey scot bokenko) writes:
>> 
>> 
>>>I would like a list of Heisman trophy winners and the teams they play on.
>>>Only active players would be nice.  All I can think of is the following:
>> 
>>>     Desmond Howard      Washington  (??????)
>>>     Hershel Walker      Philadelphia
>>>     Marcus Allen        Raiders
>>>     Ron Brown           Raiders
>>       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>     Ty Detmer           ????????
>> 
>> 
>>>any others you can think of ??????
>>>-- 


 yr        name        college pos      played for      notes
-------------------------------------------------------------
1991 Desmond Howard   Michigan WR Wash                      E
1990 Ty Detmer        BYU      QB GBay                    C E
1989 Andre Ware       Houston  QB Det                     C E
1988 Barry Sanders    Okla St  RB Det                     C E
1987 Tim Brown        Notre Dm WR Rai                       E
1986 Vinny Testeverde Miami    QB TBay                      E
1985 Bo Jackson       Auburn   HB Rai
1984 Doug Flutie      Bost Col QB Chi, NE, CFL
1983 Mike Rozier      Nebraska HB CFL, Hou, Atl
1982 Herschel Walker  Georgia  HB USFL, Dal, Minn, Phil   C E
1981 Marcus Allen     USC      HB Rai                    B  E
1980 George Rogers    S Carol  HB Wash                   B

Notes:
A:  A member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
B:  Owns a Super Bowl Ring.
C:  Won the Heisman as a Junior.
D:  Played for a Nat'l Championship team the year they won the Heisman.
E:  Still active in the NFL.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bryan Cooper, cooperr@a.cs.okstate.edu
From: kprashan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (hyderabadi)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Chargers 2nd pre-season game
Date: 16 Aug 92 22:50:10 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Aug16.222256.21926@uwm.edu>, melissa@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Melissa C Merrill) writes:
> 
> 	Can any San Diego fans tell me if Marion will get the most playing
>     this season? Or will he be sharing the load with Bernstien? I have him
>     as a fantasy football player, and wonder if he'll play enough, for me to
>     play him. Thanks all.
> 
> 							Mark Gresbach
> 							GO VIKINGS!


Yep.. IMO Butts will get the bulk of the load, despite Bernstine being
there. I feel they may trade Bernstine before the start of the
season.. at least I would try to do that, for a DB or a WR.


__________________________________________________________
| Prashanth                    |                         |
| U. of California @ San Diego | prash@bhaskara.ucsd.edu |
##########################################################
From: bokenko@CS.ColoState.EDU (jeffrey scot bokenko)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Ty Detmer and other Heisman winners
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:25:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department


I would like a list of Heisman trophy winners and the teams they play on.
Only active players would be nice.  All I can think of is the following:

     Desmond Howard      Washington  (??????)
     Hershel Walker      Philadelphia
     Marcus Allen        Raiders
     Ron Brown           Raiders
     Ty Detmer           ????????


any others you can think of ??????
-- 
*****************************************************************************
Jeff Bokenko                       CONFUCIOUS SAY:  "He who fishes in another
bokenko@beethoven.cs.colostate.edu           man's well, often catches crab."
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Worst Rules in NFL
From: mzener@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:19:38 EDT
 <1992Aug14.130037.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> <1992Aug14.173726.13356@aero.org>
Organization: Wesleyan University

> Finally, I can imagine that that rule is a result of turf being
> installed in stadiums years ago.  I bet that if all the stadiums had
> grass fields, we wouldn't see that rule in effect.  However, it is
> hardly fair to expect a player to hold on to the ball when falling
> face (or hands) first onto the "fuzzy concrete".

   I s'pose so.  Of course, in my opinion, artificial turf should be done away
with completely (football the way God and Vince Lombardi intended, and all
those other sentiments)...

Max
From: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Terminology question
Date: 20 Aug 92 11:23:20 GMT
Reply-To: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Organization: Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center

In rec.sport.football.pro, 343VTQ2@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (William Grant) writes:

>    This brings an interesting question.  WHY don't some pro team use a
>wishbone type of offense.  Teams like San Fran or Philadelphia would be
>perfect for this type of offense.  A good scrambling quarterback,  and
>3 running backs.

The wishbone offense went out the same way the T-formation did - both
formations use three backs bunched up behind the quarterback.  This
actually makes things easier for the defense - the defense can put
more players at the line of scrimmage and bottle up the wishbone or 
T-formation offense.

The trend today is to use just one back and put two extra players at 
wide receiver or tight end positions. This helps open up the defense, 
makes things harder for the defense (with defense players spreaded over 
larger area) and easier on the offense.  One of the wide receivers
can also function as a back by getting up and running behind the QB 
before or after the ball is hiked.

This is exactly what the Washington Redskins and some other teams are 
doing.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Steve Williams                           swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: University Relations - Diane, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 10:26:12 -0400 
From: Todd Harris Fletcher <tf0y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Steelers back?
	<ieJDPB1w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org>

I want to respond to everyone's comments regarding the Steelers vs.
Eagles game this past Saturday.

>season.  Also, if you wanted to read something in it, what about the fact 
>that the Steelers gave up all of those points in the first three quarters 
>and the defense looked pretty pathetic?  I'm not trying to tear down the 

One TD was an interception return that STROM threw and one was a kick return.

And concerning the score, 35-33 Eagles, the game ended with O'Donnell
driving the Steelers for the fifth time in the 4th quarter.  They got to
the Eagles' 23 yard line and with :02 left spiked the ball to stop the
clock.  One of the tackles was not on the line so the referee called a
penalty.  They said that the penalty was a :10 runoff and the game was
over.  It turns out that they were wrong and it should have been a 5
yard penalty and giving Gary Automatic a chance at a 45yd FG.  I know
it's only a preseason game, but that's still a shitty way to lose a game.

Todd
From: heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Vikings blow out KC
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:35:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center

In article <1992Aug17.203946.22158@news.stolaf.edu>, alvstad@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Joel D Alvstad) writes...

>In article <1992Aug17.134632.215@macc.wisc.edu> heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug16.071011.14582@news.stolaf.edu>, alvstad@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Joel D Alvstad) writes...
>>
>>>That's right, the lowly Vikings defeated the Chief (Super Bowl favorites) at
>>>the Dome tonight by the score of 30-0.  You read correctly. 30-0.
>>
>>Don't get too excited.  The Packers beat the Chiefs soundly in week 1. 
>>Either the Chiefs are sandbagging it or they have major problems.
>>
>>>I bleed purple.
>>
>>You owe me $1.  :-)
>>
>Hey, John, did you read my entire post???

Yes.

>I commented many times that it was still preseason...Maybe you just didn't see
>that.

Right, and I said don't get too excited.  What's your point?

>Even so, I still have faith in my Purple.  Can't wait till preseason week 4 at
>RFK.  That should be a good judge of how far the Vikes have come...

That's right.

>I bleed purple.

You owe me another dollar.

John G. Heim                                 Email:  heim@macc.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro