From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Friendships
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:08:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.193242.10378@athena.mit.edu>, tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) writes:
> ===============================
> 
>  To the questions:
> >>  Do you mean words/decisions 'about friends' are final? 
> >>  I fail to understand you. Why should it be final?
> >>  And what do you mean when you  say "final."
> >>  Please elaborate. Perhaps, with an example.
> 
>  alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) replied:
> >
> >What I mean is that when a youngster under 18 is seeing some people
> >who the parents think are not good influence for him/her, then that youngster
> >should stop seeing these people. (Parents decision is Final).
>  
>  alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) then cross examines:
> >No these are not assumptions. Do you think a kid at the age of 12 knows
> >what is right and what is wrong about everything ?
> >Do you think a parent should wait to tell a kid who eats too much
> >candies, to stop eating them, until his/her teeth have several cavities ?
> >Do you think a parent should wait to tell the kid who is six not to
> >cross that busy road on his/her own, until the kid is hit by a car !
> >Do you think a parent should not tell a kid to watch off the drug-sellers
> >at the school ? Do you think a parent should not tell a kid to 
> >not touch that bottle of harmful toxic liquid in the house ...
> 
>  Aren't we loosing the context here?
> 
>  Exploring potential friends - the topic of debate here - is different
>  from eating too much candies and crossing busy roads and touching toxic
>  liquid and....

But it is related to the issue of parental authority and interaction with
kids ...

>  This is different because exploring people is like exploring nature, not
>  toxic liquids. Toxic liquid can kill instantly; Nature and people can
>  frustrate and sicken you, at most. But that is life. 

Nature and people can also kill. Haven't you heard of kids carrying guns
in New York High schools ? Kids have shot kids ! Haven't you heard of kids 
getting drowned in the flood water ...

If a kid has friends who carry their guns around or those who deal with
such people, then parents have to stop them from seeing them.
Ofcourse a reasonable parent would first dig into the matter and then make a 
decision.

>  You don't always get what you want.

Precisely. Kids don't always get to do what they feel like.
Nobody always gets to do what he or she feels like.

>  To digress, if the kid is eating too much candy, check with the doctor
>  first (don't TELL him to stop); and stop buying candies. Keep the toxic

What is there to check with the doctor in this case ? It is a well known
fact that too many candies a day destroy the teeth.

It is not the parent but the kid who buys or gets the candies from
his friends/neigbors or somewhere else.

Parent only discovers one day that kid has whole bunch of candies in 
his school box or something. Then parent questions the kid. Kid tells
after questioning that this or that gave him/her the candies.
Now the parent has to make a decision. Then the issue is whether
to communicate the decision to the kid or take some action on your own
to prevent it in future. 

If you were a parent, would you make that decision ?

Your desicion may be to tell
the kid to stop getting these candies or stop seeing this person 
(You may or may not know this person).

Alternatively you may secretly pursue - like go to school or neigbors house 
and ask that person (after finding out who it is) not to give candies to the 
kid.  If you have a full time job and you do not have time to run around
like this, what would you do ? 


>  liquid out of reach or may be destroy the toxic liquid; keep your six

Not all toxic liquids can be kept out of reach or destroyed.
Some are needed in regular household work and then there is this human element
that one may forget to keep the stuff in safe unreachable place.

>  year old within your reach. These things don't need to be argued with 

Not always possible to keep the six year old within one's reach.
Imagine having a full time job. Even otherwise it is not possible 
practically speaking to keep the kid around you all the time. YOu know
parent has to do things around the house too. And then there are other kids
in the neighborhood who te kid goes out with. They can do these
things elsewhere. Just think of one of those friend's parents being lax
or careless ...

>  the kid. One takes action - Just do it.

Easier said than done, Mr. Yadav.

> 
> > [arguments about drugs, molestation, porn... deleted]
> > [perhaps, we should have another thread debating these]

Fine. 

> 
>  Dating and sex (casual or intense) are voluntary acts. And, there are
>  reasons to what attracts whom. Find the cause; something more fundamental 
>  is going on in the mind of that hypothetical girl. Find those roots. Talk.
>  Is the girl finding happiness in such a date, or is she running away from the
>  misery named "parents." 

Or she is simply confused and does not know what she is doing and the
consequences of it.

> I don't know. But, I think, individuals have free
>  will. Individuals make choices. And individuals have conscious or
>  subconscious reasons/values for their choices. Explore there.
> 
There is no disagreement about exploring. Ofcourse a reasonable parent would
explore first what is going on before asking the girl to not see the person
under question. AS you said the girl in this case has a problem.
Parents are the legal guardian until 18. If she is under 18, it is parent's 
responsibility to fix the problem or get it fixed by counselling
outside the home. Since you can not control the sob, it is the girl who
has to be told not to see the sob.

Point made was that parents have a final say if the girl is under 18.
After finding all about her reasons etc., if there is still a disagreement
then the girl should listen to the parent and stop seeing this person.
If she doesn't, she is only going to  make her life miserable in addition to 
those of her parents.

>  Should we change the topic of this thread?
> 
I don't think there is much more to discuss here.
Besides neither one is a real parent here :-)

> T.Y.
> ----
> tyadav@athena.mit.edu


Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.asian.american