HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hnoble@eskimo.com (Henry Noble)
Subject: Seattle-> Vancouver B.C.
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Distribution: pnw
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 03:37:29 GMT


Has anyone heard _definite_ plans for a Seattle to Vancouver
Amtrak route?  I know it was discussed eaarly in '92 and I'm
eagerly looking forward to the ride but I haven't heard anything
lately.
-henry
From: braden@isi.edu (Bob Braden)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Grade Separations (was Re: CalTrain scheduling musings)
Date: 9 Jan 93 01:09:56 GMT
Reply-To: braden@braden.isi.edu (Bob Braden)
Organization: USC-Information Sciences Institute


Some years ago (about 30), I watched the Southern Pacific construct the
PageMill road tunnel under the operating main line in Palo Alto, CA.
They brought in a pile driver mounted on a rail car, and drove in very
long piles between the ties.  Then they somehow managed to suspend the
ties in the area of the intended bridge on these piles.  Then they
simply excavated under the track for the road and piers; the short
track section was left hanging in space, on top of the piles, which
where now partially exposed.  I guess there must still have been a
tricky bit after the piers and other substructure was completed, when
they had to tear out the piles and the old track section and install
the girders and new track.  I missed that; I assume it happened at
night.

Bob Braden
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: European Air Deregulation
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:05:57 GMT
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <5930@bacon.IMSI.COM> jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:
 > Dik T. Winter <dik@cwi.nl> writes:
 > 
 > 	If the airlines go on with this most will go belly-up, just as
 > 	many US airlines did.
 > 
 > The reasons for the US airline industry's record losses are complicated
 > but have much more to do with empty x-country flights than with full
 > short-range "shuttle" type flights.  Short-range ("commuter") airlines
 > are doing well, as are the various shuttle-type services; these are the
 > ones that will compete most heavily with rail.
 > 
In Europe there are only a few shuttle-type services.  (We define short-range
a bit differently here.)  As far as I know, there are shuttle-type services
within the UK and from Amsterdam to London, but I think that is about all.
Normally flying prices in Europe are much higher than in the US.  Flying
from Amsterdam to Athens costs more than from Amsterdam to New York, which
in turn costs more than flying from New York to Amsterdam.  And that is not
because the flights are nearly empty.  You have in general to reserve well
in advance if you want to fly Economy.  What Lufthansa is doing is offering
below US prices for European flights.

But I do not think there will be very heavy competition with rail.  For
instance, Amsterdam-Brussels.  My KLM timetable most accessible dates from
1984 and the train price dates from 1990 (last time I did it), so allow
for inflation and all that, but it shows.  Train: hourly, 3 hours trip,
return 90 guilders.  Plane: 6 times each day (includes non-KLM flights),
45 minutes flying time (but include travel to airport: 20 minutes,
check-in 30 minutes, travel from airport: 20 minutes, all travel by
train ;-)).  Return, economy PEX 184 guilders, normal 386 guilders.
Granted, you would be faster if you live near Schiphol airport (but you
can take the train to Brussels there) and need to go near Zaventem
(Brussels airport), you have to change train if you want to go there by
train.  Paris gets a bit more tricky (more flights and 6 hours train,
will be less when the TGV arrives here), but I know quite a few people
who prefer train, not to mention the enormous price difference: about
150 guilders against 656 (1984) guilders.

As I understand it those can now be done for 189 DM, but I have to go
through Frankfurt ;-).
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
From: downs@helios.nevada.edu (Lamont Downs)
Subject: Re: Query: info on Drive Your Own Train computer game
Organization: UNLV
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 04:12:14 GMT

>
>Available on IBM PC-type machines?  I heard it was out for PC but then
>withdrawn "because of poor quality"; anyone know the real story?  Micro
>Warehouse a while ago had a MAC version but not PC.

I got a copy for PC a couple years ago (I think it was called "Run your own 
train" then) and it really was awful. I removed it from my HD after about 3 
tries. If you thought the old MS Flight Simulator graphics were crude, this 
thing made them look sophisticated. You basically saw a bare track scrolling 
toward you, with an occasional station or tree go by (about 3 or 4 frames 
per object before it was past). If you collided, the windshield was redrawn 
with spiderweb cracks. It was OK as a twitch game (could you throw the 
switches fast enough??) but definitely didn't feel anything like a 
locomotive simulation.

Incidentally, don't confuse this with Design your own train, which is a 
model railroad CAD program with quite a bit of potential for the price.

Lamont Downs
downs@helios.nevada.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pgifford@reis36.alleg.edu (Pete Gifford)
Subject: Information Requests
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:36:32 GMT

I have three requests for the net wisdom and information archives.

1. Does anyone have the address and phone of the Reading Company
   Technical and Historical Society?  (Reading Railroad historical
   society)  Is it worthwhile to join such organizations?

2. Can anyone suggest a source of information on the recent history of
   the Bessemer and Lake Erie Railroad, since, say, 1965?

3. Here's the operational question.  Conrail runs through my home town of
   Meadville on the old Erie tracks.  This is a line (Southern Tier) that
   runs form Hornell, NY to somewhere around Mercer PA.  I frequently
   drive along the B&LE tracks around Greenville, PA.  This weekend I saw
   4 Conrail locomotives parked in the B&LE yard just south of
   Greenville.  First time ever.  Seemed strange.  Is it unusual for
   different railroads to hold/store locos on their tracks?  I have also
   occasionally seen a BN loco lashed up with a Conrail in the Meadville
   yard.  Is that type of thing unusual?  I'm full of dumb questions this
   year!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Pete Gifford
Allegheny College
pgifford@alleg.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: johnh@borland.com (John Haskey)
Subject: Re: INFO REQUEST: Railroad Tycoon for the Atari ST bug?
Originator: johnh@genghis.borland.com
Keywords: atari railroad tycoon game
Organization: Borland International
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:06:56 GMT

Sorry, I can't help you with the ATARI version but the IBM version has numerous
bugs.  You can save games though.  Many of the bugs in the IBM version make
the game 'amusing' but still playable.  In spite of the bugs, I recommend this
game as a very effective time waster...

								---john.

p.s.  Try building a signal tower before you've built a station.  Loco's appear
out of nowhere!
-- 
johnh@genghis.borland.com ---------- This post contains 100% personal opinion!
"...there are at least 9 Redwood Drives in Santa Cruz county, plus 5 Roads, 
4 Avenues, 3 Places, 3 Streets, 2 Terraces, 2 Ways, and 1 each of a Lane and
a Circle, all, presumably named for the Redwood Tree." -S.C. County Place Names
From: gregg@pinot.zehntel.com (Gregg Fuhriman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Kodachrome U30(?)C spotted in Willow Springs?
Date: 6 Jan 93 17:34:12 GMT
Reply-To: gregg@pinot.UUCP (Gregg Fuhriman)
Distribution: na
Organization: Zehntel, Inc. Walnut Creek, CA

In article <1993Jan5.145720.10076@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) writes:
>
>Driving over the ATSF yard at Willow Springs, IL on Dec. 27th, I
>was surprised to see a pair of U30Cs or U33Cs sitting in the yard.
>One was in Yellowbonnet and one was in Kodachrome paint.  I thought
>the Santa Fe scrapped or sold off all their U30/33Cs.  Have they put
>a couple back in service or were these rentals that were still in
>ATSF paint?  Thanks.

These were most likely C30-7's, which were returned to GE after their lease
to ATSF expired a few years ago.  ATSF has since leased some back on a
short-term basis.

For the record, ATSF did once own U30Cs and U33Cs, but they were retired
and scrapped at least a decade ago.  These days, the closest thing to a
real "U-boat" on the ATSF are the SF30Cs, which are rebuilt U36Cs.
However, their external appearance was altered extensively, so those
look less like a U-boat than their C30-7s and B36-7s.

							Gregg Fuhriman
From: ajw@squid.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Waugh)
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 equalization?
Organization: CSIRO, Division of Information Technology, Melbourne
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 21:58:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.002925.501@mel.dit.csiro.au> ajw@squid.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Waugh) writes:
>In article <4150010@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> spangler@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bill Spangler) writes:
>>Did 0-6-0 engines generally have 3-point equalization?   If so, which drivers
>>were generally paired, and how were the linkages run side-to-side?
>
>The answer to this is complicated; probably due to my lack of detailed
>knowledge.

As I warned, I got some of this wrong...

>In the U.K. (where 0-6-0 locomotives were very common) the track was of
>sufficiently high standard that three point suspension was unnecessary.
>Consequently each axle would typically be sprung completely
>independantly of the others.

Definitely true.

>Compensating beams, however, were used to alter the weight distribution
>on individual axles. By altering the pivot (bearing) point of the beam,
>the design weight on an axle could be reduced by shifting some of the
>supported weight to an adjacent axle.

Not true, at least in the books I checked over the weekend. Compensating
beams were not provided to alter weight distribution (although, if present,
could be used for that purpose). The reason for providing them was to reduce
the shock to axles upon encountering track irregularities.

An 0-6-0 would have one pair of axles compensated and the remaining axle free.
(At least according to the British book.) If a leading bogie was fitted
(a 2-6-0 or a 4-6-0) would have the leading coupled axle compensated with
the bogie and the trailing pair of coupled axles compensated.

andrew waugh
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Dates of structures (was: Grade Separations)
Date: 9 Jan 93 02:05:24 GMT
Distribution: usa


>The bridge in question is a skewed mixture of through and deck truss, fully
>plate-connected but open-decked.  This dates it as being post-1900, but
>probably pre-WWII.  The piers come almost up to track level, so the ends of
>the deck spans aren't squared.

Well, the Ilchester bridge on the B&O Old Main Line fits this description
very closely; it was put up in 1906.  Maybe we're splitting hairs here over
a few decades.

Also, the B&O built a lot of new stone bridges in the early 1900's.

The point I'm getting at here is that at least one railroad tended to build
bridges which were rarely made obsolete by loads.  (In fact, the Bollman
truss bridge in Savage is still there, and was in use up into the late '40s.
It survived because it never had to carry a locomotive there.)

-- 
C. Wingate        + "The peace of God, it is no peace,
                  +    but strife closed in the sod.
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:
tove!mangoe       +    the marv'lous peace of God."
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: guy@boi.hp.com ()
Subject: Re: Runaway tracks?
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:01:36 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.2 PL7]

In <1isi6kINNjg5@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, Jim Haynes (haynes@cats.ucsc.edu) wrote:
>
>The new Orcharc Supply calendar begins with a picture of a train in
>the Canadian Rockies.  The text says the route originally had a 4.4%
>grade and runaway tracks every two miles, and that there were lots
>of runaways.  How do runaway tracks work?
>-- 

Sound like the Kicking Horse Pass route east of Field, B.C.  This is the
line that now has the famous spiral  tunnels.  Originally  it had escape
tracks  arranged  to send a  runaway  train up a short,  steep,  deadend
section of track to stop it.  Same theory as the runaway  truck ramps on
steep  mountain  roads.  There  was  a  shack  at  the  switch  with  an
attendant.  The switch was kept lined for the runaway  track by default.
The attendant  would would come out and line the switch for the downhill
(main) on receipt of the proper  "under  control"  whistle code from the
train.

--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--
Guy Burnham, Boise Surface Mount Center, Hewlett Packard Co. Inc.
guy@hpbs5194.boi.hp.com     208(323-3355)

I WORK TO LIVE ... I LIVE FOR TRAINS, and OLD TRUCKS, and OLD TRACTORS and ..

Disclaimer: Don't you be the only one to take me seriously!  
--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,alt.religion.kibology
From: dshctd@ultb.isc.rit.edu (D.S. Hulings)
Subject: Re: RailPhones (was Re: The Elvis Stamp)
Originator: dshctd@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:44:24 GMT

In article <dz+39gh@rpi.edu> kasprj@rpi.edu writes:
>In article <C0oCFx.KvE@world.std.com>, kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes:
>|> 
>|> P.S.  I'm posting this via acoustic coupler modem from my laptop on
>|> board one of those Amtrak trains with the new TrainFones.  This is K00L.
> 
> Have they installed Railfones on the Lake Shore Limited now? Or did you
>take some weird route back to Boston, like Albany->NYC->Providence->Boston?
> 
> For that matter, I've been wondering for a while: just which routes are
>serviced by Railfone, aside from the NYC-Washington corridor? Anyplace
>outside of the Northeast? I'd imagine the Chicago area and California would
>be appropriate markets. And how about Canada? Do they have phones on the 
>Toronto-Montreal trains?
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
> ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
>/____ *|          he who refuses to do nonsense  
>     \_|          is doomed to talk arithmetic.
>      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
>

I rode from Rochester (NY) to Penn Station a few weeks ago as the
first leg of a journey to Florida (on the Silver Meteor; I need to
post my experiences about that!).  The Niagara Rainbow (train 284)
had a Railfone in the cafe car.... first one I've seen on an 
Empire Service train.

-- Dave (dshctd@cs.rit.edu)
From: jr@ksr.com (John Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: X2000 in Corridor service - February
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:06:11 EST
Organization: Kendall Square Research, Waltham, MA
In-reply-to: dfl@panix.com's message of 8 Jan 93 16:49:17 EST

In article <C0K1y6.sA@panix.com> dfl@panix.com (Danny O'Bedlam) writes:

   Also:  I saw what LOOKED like the X2000 as we headed North out of 30th
   St Station.  Rider next to me said he had seen 'it' also in Philly
   over 6 months ago.  Now, we know that the demo train thats been running
   arrived in late Nov.  If there really was an ABB X2000 here earlier,
   was it spotted by some net.readers?

I spotted it in a message from a Kingston, RI poster to the BITNET
railroad list.  It passed north through there yesterday at 3:05pm
behind a Turbo (Rohr I think).  I wonder if it's parked at South
Station right now?

--
/jr, aka John Robinson                       Place stamps here
internet: jr@ksr.com                    Post Office will not deliver
uucp: {world,harvard,uunet}!ksr!jr      mail without correct postage
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Likely derailment sites: why the BART derailment?
Organization: LLNL
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:02:14 GMT


	The BART derailment of Dec. 17, 1992 led me to ask what are
the most likely places for trains to derail.

	Here are the circumstances of this accident: The derailment
occurred in the Oakland Wye, a junction of three of BART's lines. More
specifically, it occurred where the eastern top track at its 12th St.
station splits into two, one track going south to West Oakland and San
Francisco, and the other track going east to Lake Merritt and Fremont.

	Normally, it is only northward trains from Fremont or San
Francisco that take this route, but the accident happened at 11:20 pm,
when the BART folx were using this slow time to test out running
trains southward should they ever need to do so. What is especially
perplexing is that a train had gone southward along this very route an
hour before.

	The site of the derailment was apparently this switch, which
was set for making a curve. There was no sign that it had accidentally
been reset as the train was going past; it had stayed in its state the
whole time.

	As a result, one car was wrecked and two others were somewhat
damaged, and 14 people were taken to the hospital for various
injuries. Nobody was killed and the operator was exculpated by virtue
of the train being on automatic at the time.

	The two cars that derailed were two of the original fleet of
Rohr cars built in the early 1970's.

	Reportedly, something like 80 of BART's nearly 600 cars has
been out of service for wheel problems (1/8 of the whole fleet!), and
there has been a lot of grumbling about deferred maintenance. BART's
General Manager, Frank Wilson, has talked about an $800 million
rehabilitation program over the next 10 years, which will probably
have a higher priority now. BART hasn't had a fare hike in some time,
and as a rather frequent BART rider, I keep on wondering when this
(relatively) free ride will end. Maybe the BART Board will decide to
have one after all these years.

	I was asking for other railroad-experience input because 1.5
centuries of experience should be more than enough :-)

	Possible bad spots are curves and switches, because a train
will attempt to move in a straight line despite track curvature and
because the rails might get pushed out of alignment, especially on the
outer parts of curves. The moving rails of switches are also a
potential vulnerability, since they are not fastened securely in
place.

	Do wheel-flange problems also contribute? If a wheel flange
gets worn down enough, it may no longer be able to keep the train on
the tracks.
-- 
/Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster
/lip@s1.gov
From: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Steam Heat on Electric Locomotives
Date: 9 Jan 93 00:25:12 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

guy@boi.hp.com writes:
>In <sjones.726345266@cunews>, Stan Jones (sjones@alfred.carleton.ca) wrote:
>>
>>And for that matter, how do you think diesels generated steam for the
>>heating system?
>>
>
>As far as I know, they used steam generators (Vapor Corp. made the ones
>I'm familiar with).  These were diesel oil fired boilers.  Water came
>from a tank on the locomotive.  I think some Alcos had tanks in the rear
>corners inside (PA units) and EMD E & F type units had tanks underneath as
>part of the fuel tank assembly.
>--

Someone explained to me that a steam generator was a diesel engine driving 
an electric generator and that boils the water. Also, the heat from the 
diesel's cooling system was used to temper the incoming water before 
it was heated in the boiler.

-- Dan

Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
Advertisment: Try the Railway Post Office , a railfan BBS ! (612) 377-2197.
UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!rambler
INET: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Unusual Trackage (Was: Unusual tunnels?)
Date: 9 Jan 93 02:12:40 GMT

An odd bit of a different sort occurs with the Balto. Howard St. Tunnel.
(Or used to, anyway.)  Electric locos hauled the trains, road engine and
all, through the tunnel in the upgrade direction; trains simply drifted in
the other.  To cut off the helpers, there was a short bit of track between
the two mains.  The electric locos would uncouple from the train on the fly,
accelerate ahead, and dart into the center holding track.  Then they would
return on the opposite track as the train continued on.
-- 
C. Wingate        + "The peace of God, it is no peace,
                  +    but strife closed in the sod.
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:
tove!mangoe       +    the marv'lous peace of God."
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ajw@squid.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Waugh)
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 equalization?
Organization: CSIRO, Division of Information Technology, Melbourne
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 00:29:25 GMT

In article <4150010@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> spangler@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bill Spangler) writes:
>Did 0-6-0 engines generally have 3-point equalization?   If so, which drivers
>were generally paired, and how were the linkages run side-to-side?

The answer to this is complicated; probably due to my lack of detailed
knowledge.

In the U.K. (where 0-6-0 locomotives were very common) the track was of
sufficiently high standard that three point suspension was unnecessary.
Consequently each axle would typically be sprung completely
independantly of the others.

Compensating beams, however, were used to alter the weight distribution
on individual axles. By altering the pivot (bearing) point of the beam,
the design weight on an axle could be reduced by shifting some of the
supported weight to an adjacent axle.

andrew waugh
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org
Subject: Re: Unusual Trackage (Was: Unusual tunnels?)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:45:49 GMT

In all the talk about reversing loops, I have seen noone mention the one in the
Amtrak/MBTA servicing area at South Bay in Boston.  It is my impression, which
could easily be incorrect, that such loops are quite common in what we used to
call "coach yards", in order to provide an easy way to keep cars and engines in
the proper direction.  In any case, for as long as I can remember (circa 40
years) and for probably a lot longer, all long distance and most non-RDC
commuter trains on the New Haven and later ATK/MBTA have arrived at South
Station with the locomotive coming up to the bunter, then after unloading,
backed to the yard (used to be called "Dover Street") for servicing, run
backwards around the loop, put up on layup tracks if need be, then eventually
backed back into the station again for loading and departure.  I was, as a
youngster, naive enough to assume that this was standard operating procedure
"everywhere"!
 
 
Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society
MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
<M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>
 
"Amazing love, how can it be that Thou, my God, should'st die for me!"
                                                 - Charles Wesley
Newsgroups: rec.railroad