HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kimes@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Kit Kimes)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Comments and insight needed from BEARS fans
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:40:18 GMT
Organization: AT&T

From article <1992Oct8.124013.7162@leland.Stanford.EDU>, by (matthew bohnert):
> 
> They need to get back to what made them great.  First of all, get a
> good f***ing general manager.  Vanisi was let go because McKaskey is
> a little spoiled brat who wants to pretend he's a football exec.
> We need that guy back.  Start drafting quality linemen, intelligent
> guys who will play hurt and have good fundamentals.  Get some decent
> assistant coaches who aren't afraid to yell at the players when
> their fundamentals suck.  I actually liked the Carrier move.  Draft
> a solid player (maybe not `spectacular') high, get him signed, and
> get him into camp where he can start learning.  Maybe keep Singeltary 
> on as an assistant when he retires, I don't know.

	The Bears haven't done all that badly with the lines.  Both
	Trace Armstrong and Spellman are quality young players that
	almost any team would like to have.  Problem is, you can't
	ignore the rest of the team and only concentrate on the lines.
	The Bears suffer from too much success.  Years of finishing
	high have left them with lower draft choices.  They have actually
	done better than a lot of teams in getting quality players with
	their picks.  One recent failure was Stan Thomas and I actually
	think he was a good pick but is still suffering some affects
	from the gun shot wound in the head.
 
> In my opinion, both the Steelers and Cowboys hung on to `popular'
> managers too long, although that's easy to say in hindsight.  I hope
> Chicago doesn't make the same mistake.  Who would do the actual firing,
> I wonder?  If it's McKaskey, there's no chance.  He's a complete wimp
> and I think Ditka would threaten to beat him up if he didn't want to
> go. :-)

What made Ditka a success when he came to Chicago is the same thing that
is making Green a success at Minnisota this year.  Ditka and Green both
were in a position of not having any ties to the players when they came
in.  They both cleaned out a lot of over-paid, over-hyped under-achievers
and started with the good talent and hard workers that were left.  I 
think Ditka used an even bigger broom than Green at the time.  :-)
Now however, Ditka has only his players on the team and it is real hard
for a coach (even a hardnose like Ditka) to say to his choices "here's
your jock strap, take it and leave".  The only way that will happen is if
someone replaces Ditka.

Kit Kimes
AT&T Bell Labs (under contract to NCR)
Naperville, IL
...!att!iwcs!kimes (kimes@iwcs.att.com)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: kevinlu@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Kevin Lu)
Subject: Re: GIANTS news
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:44:14 GMT

Satish Nair (satish@a.chem.upenn.edu) wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This is for Adrienne, Kevin and other GIANTS fans out there (if there are any
> left on this planet) and anyone else seeking football news not relating to
> the Eagboys and the Cowgles:
> 

Hey, Thanks!

> 1) After the hit that Simms took against the Raiders, his arm was sore. 
> MIR and x-ray revealed a bruised elbow so he's out for Sunday and Hoss is
> in as quarterback.
> 

Oh no, and we play LA Rams this week don't we?
I don't remember the Giants doing to well last season against them :-(


> 2) LT states that after this year he retires.  He also claims his attitude
> over the last few games were "I shoulda quit last year" and that he was just
> going through the motions but will re-dedicate himself to the team for his
> last season.  One of the finest linebackers to play the game ... it's gotta
> end better than this for him.
> 
> satish nair

Oh well, last seasons wasn't a very good year for LT. Anyone know who will
fill the gap?

  +----------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
  |  Kevin Lu                              | Monash University             |
  |  Email: kevinlu@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au  | Clayton, Victoria             |
  |                                        | Australia                     |
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: EAGLES REAl TEST coming up, KC, Skins, 'Boys on the road
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:25:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <92179@netnews.upenn.edu>, sajja@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Rajeev  Sajja) writes:
> I am die-hard eagles fan, I think the true test for this eagles
> team is the next 3 road games. I believe that a real test for any
> team is to beat a strong team on the road. And that question will
> be answered whe they take on KC,Washington, and dallas in the next 4 weeks.

They play Phoenix in Philly between the 'Skins and 'Boyz games.

> If they come back with 2 wins, i think this team is a very strong ,for real,
> super bowl contender.

I expect a split in the first two road games, probably a loss in KC only
because they beat Dallas on Monday night and because Randall is on the SI
cover again. IF they win 'em both, expect a bad game vs. the Cardinals.
If they lose in Washington, I wouldn't want to be in a Cardinal uniform...:-)

pete clark jr.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: c1h3384@rigel.tamu.edu
Subject: So much for the best team in the NFL --- KC KiCks Eagles's ASS!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 05:45:00 GMT

I told you so. Last week in my postings, I predicted that KC would beat the
hell outta of the eagles, and that was exactly what happened today.

I was not impressed by the eagles in the Monday night game against Dallas,
and nobody was buying it. Taking out the QB's run, what do the Eagles have?
Absolutely nothing! Forget about the "best team in the NFL", forget about
the "most complete QB in the game", that kind of statements suck! Whoever
says it again needs to have his/her head checked!

Eagles are a team a little bit better than average, that is it. Eagles
fans, accept this fact. Otherwise your life will be miserable. Believe me!

And I predict another loss by the Eagles to the Skins Sunday!

BOb
From: eagan@granite.ma30.bull.com (Timothy M. Eagan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: EAGLES, COWBOYS
Date: 9 Oct 92 12:07:42 GMT
Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Inc.

In article <cep7wXi00UhWM4i3V9@andrew.cmu.edu> jw5c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey Weeks) writes:
>I have read enough of this pandering shit about how good the Eagles are.
> Lucky is more like it.  Any team that gets a triple-tipped interception
>and a fumble from an experienced reciever like an offensive lineman. 
>Cut out these flukes and the Cowboys kick Philly's vaunted defense
>around.  Don't worry you guys have no offense so enjoy being on top for
>one week.

I think you should try following a sport you understand a little better.


-- 
Tim Eagan			"Here's to the charmer
508-294-2095			 whose dimples we prize."
ISO9001 Expert			 Richard Brinsley Sheridan 1751-1816
Future SEI Expert	 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	)
Subject: Re: Eagles : YIKES!
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Date:  8 OCT 92 15:19:08    

In article <1992Oct7.203035.20790@PacBell.COM>, jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria) writes...

>>What's with this "winning tradition" crap? Ask the Packers how much a
>>"winning tradition" did for them in the '70s, or ask the Steelers how
>>much it did for them in the '80s.
>>

>[Deletions...]  All you guys
>harp on what their current standings are, etc., etc., and state that the
>SB is only one game and that it shouldn't be a barometer to measure a teams
>greatness.

I don't think anyone has said this.  This is a misrepresentation of 
their argument.

>Bob, some things are intangible, or does that require a Master's for you
>to understand. Coach Seifert came right in and won a SB. Coach Seifert, 
>currently has the highest winning perctange of any coach. Does that
>tell you something. Montana goes down and now Young is leading the Niners
>to victories. Does that tell you something? Success breeds success, and
>failure breeds failure.

Good players tend to remain good players (until they get old).  And 
bad players tend to remain bad players.  This is quite different from 
saying the 49ers are more likely to win the SB because of some 
nebulous 'winning tradition'.

>The Packers and Steelers did not make changes. Does that tell you something?

This is untrue and unsupportable.

>The other non-SB winners need to make the right changes. Look at the Vikings.
>Hiring Coach Green is a step in the right direction. The Cowboys have taken
>the right steps to reverse their failure, and so have the Eagels. The
>only problem is that they have to succeed in going all the way. Perhaps
>on these teams will in the next 2-5 years, NOT this year though. IF anyone
>of them does, than kudos to them. It will mean that they finally went over
>the hump. You're correct, past success does not guarantee future success,
>but using past success and changing with the times will certainly give you
>an edge. Don't you agree?

None of this, in any way, supports your original statement that the 
49ers have an edge because of a winning tradition.

JGH
From: mark@totaltec.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Free Agency
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:01:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Total Tec Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Oct7.171047.29035@macc.wisc.edu>, heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	) writes:
> In article <1992Oct5.085434.661@totaltec.com>, mark@totaltec.com writes...
> 
>>In article <1992Oct2.152935.1623@macc.wisc.edu>, heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	) writes:
>>> 
>>> Companies *compete* against each other.  NFL teams, in reality, do not
>>What REALITY are you refering to? I watched some games yesterday and the
>>teams were definitily competing against each other!
> 
> Sheesh!  You deleted the rest of the message where I explained this 
> very carefully for numbskulls just like you.  NFL teams do *NOT* 
> complete financially.  They share revenue, they have one commissioner, 
> they are all part of one league.  The illusion that they are competing 
> companies is caused by the fact that they compete on the field.
> 
> You want to know what reality I'm talking about?  I'm talking about 
> the reality of the balance sheet for each team.  What you watched on 
> Sunday is a *GAME*.  Get it?
> 
> If you still believe that NFL teams are competing companies ask 
> youself this: Would a team be better off if they somehow managed to 
> drive the rest of the league out of business?
> 
> JGH

If they are not competing then why bother signing a Keith Jackson or a Webster
Slaughter?? That only drives up the cost of operating the team by increasing
player salaries ????

MDR
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: brian@intercon.com (Brian Lichorowic)
Subject: Re: Colts, ready to run wild!
Reply-To: brian@intercon.com (Brian Lichorowic)
Organization: InterCon Systems Corp
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:31:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.163500.4562@coe.montana.edu>, icsu0182@cs.montana.edu 
(Sean) writes:
> 
> Coryatt and Emtman are going to be BIG TIME studs in the VERY near future.
> I watched Coryatt every chane that I could get at A&M, and I think that 
> he is truly going to be the next Mike Singletary...Someone has to be 
> with him retiring and everyone else trying to be the next Lawrence Taylor.


In a Post game interview with Vinny T. of Tampa Bay,  Vinny was asked of the 
colts defense that sacked him 4 times last Sunday.  He comment was " that 
Coryatt guys comes at you every down as if you just insulted his mother. He's 
one mean kid.."

Coryatt and Emtman are proving their worth as the 1  and 2 picks of the 
draft. If the Colts get 3 prime linemen in the off season.. they have the 
weapons to move to the next level next year.  I think Don Irsay did the right 
thing letting his Son (Jim) take full conmtol of football operations this 
year...

Brian Lichorowic
From: kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kevin Day)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Eric Green again
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:45:04 GMT
Reply-To: kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kevin Day)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


  There have been several requests for the status of Eric Green. If
anyone knows and has just emailed the original poster, please emailme
also or post it. I know someone somewhere has to have a list of NFL
injuries and the status of injured players for this week. I need to
know. I don't want my fantasy league team to waste away with Damone
Johnson of the Rams at TE for too long.
  Thanks.

K. Scott Day   (kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil)
Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center
Code 1252
Bethesda, Maryland 20084-5000

------------------------------------------------------------------------
*    "The point to remember is that what the government gives       
*     it must first take away."
*                                        -John S. Coleman           
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jmd@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (joseph.m.dakes)
Subject: Tradition? (Re: Eagles : YIKES!)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:23:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.165942.3017@PacBell.COM>, jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria) writes:
> >>The Niners best will ALWAYS be beat the Eagles best. End result, 
> >>Niners WIN, Eagles LOSE. Please prove to me that the Eagles are
> >>better than ANYBODY, based on championships and or SB wins. ZERO!
> >>Come on, get a grip.

You get a grip.  You're living in the distant past.  In case you missed
it, this is 1992.  The Niners best last year had them sitting at home
watching the playoffs.  The year before that the Niners best was losing
out to Jeff Hostettler and the Giants at Candlestick.

The Niners SuperBowl victories in the past meant nothing in '90 nor '91.
If it's any comfort to you, they mean just as much this year.

> "Victories that are easy are cheap. Those only are worth having
> which come as the result of hard fighting."  -- Henry Ward Beecher

So what are you saying?  That the Niners SuperBowl win over the Broncos
in '89 was cheap and worthless?

> For the record, I also think the Eagles are playing good up to now. 
> They have an arsenal of weapons, but they have had these arsensal for a 
> couple of years now and to what end.  Frustration, period.

The Eagles haven't had the same team for the past couple of years.
Again, in case you missed it, they signed Herschel Walker who has
been their best rusher since the early 80's with Wilburt Montgomery.
The team also has an adequate offensive line which they haven't had
the past five seasons.  Oh, and Randall is back after missing the
entire '91 season.  And Buddy Ryan is no longer the coach so the
defense isn't selling out the secondary to get to the QB anymore.
And they have Vai Sikahema who can return punts.  The first time
they've had somebody who could do that in years.  And all those
young studs on defense that led the team to winning records the
past five years are now mature, well-versed veterans.  This is not
the same Eagles team that suited up the past few years.

The Eagles may not win the SuperBowl as you predict, but they just
might.  After five weeks, you have to admit they look as good if
not better than any other team.  They have the talent and the desire.

Despite what you may think, a team doesn't need any of that tradition
bullshit you insist on preaching about.  Don't believe me?  Then how
did a 49ers team with no previous SuperBowl championships and nothing
but losing seasons the past few years beat the Dallas Cowboys to earn
their first trip to the SuperBowl in the early 80's?  Or being that
you love living in the past so much, go back even further to the
Steelers first SuperBowl victory in the early 70's.  How did they
accomplish such a feat with nothing but losing seasons to speak of?

Get a clue and get back to us.  Or better yet, just get a clue.


E-A-G-L-E-S

Joe Dakes
AT&T Microelectronics
555 Union Boulevard
Allentown, PA  18103
alux2!jmd
From: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Raiders Flashback
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:34:12 GMT
Reply-To: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC


 I didn't get home til the start of the second half, and flipped on the set,
expecting the usual pasting the Bills give the Raiders.  Instead, I saw
Howie Long look ten years younger.  He hasn't played this well since 1985.
He was in Kelly's face all day, and he tripped up runners left and right.
The Raiders defense hasn't played this well, especially in the fourth 
quarter, for years.  Generally, their defense tends to do an impression
of the Washington Generals in the fourth, allowing miscreants like Elway to
embarrass them.  
  Wallace, Moss, Smith, and especially Ronnie Lott were dominant.  Lott 
looked like he was going to explode towards the end, and his hits got more
and more vicious as he could sense victory in his grasp.  To be fair, neither
Kelly nor Thomas were completely healthy, and it showed.  But the Raiders
took advantage of this, and didn't allow Davis anything.  They just saved
Art Shell's job.
  Next Week: Seattle, a team that always gives the Raiders fits in the
Kingdome.  An 8-8 season is not out of the question, with San Diego twice,
the Broncos and Chiefs at home, and Seattle twice.

--Rob Clough
	Robert Clough, DUMC (though still not speaking for them)
"Well, he's not the most intelligent guy in the world."
			--MTV VJ Duff, on dinner partner Christian Laettner
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Wednesday, 14 Oct 1992 08:13:27 CET
From: RENE ZANDBERGEN <RZANDBER@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Divisional statistics, week 6

Hello all,

please find below yet another weekly set of numbers,

Divisional statistics for week  6
---------------------------------
           All games     Outside div.
AFC East     2-3            1-2
AFC Central  2-2            0-0
AFC West     2-2            2-2

NFC East     3-2            2-1
NFC Central  0-0            0-0
NFC West     2-2            1-1

AFC - NFC matchups for week  6
------------------------------
AFC - NFC     2 - 3

Cumulative divisional statistics up to week  6 (including)
----------------------------------------------------------
             All games     Outside div.
AFC East    13-14           8-9   (0.4706)
AFC Central 11-9            8-6   (0.5714)
AFC West    12-17           5-10  (0.3333)

NFC East    14-11           7-4   (0.6364)
NFC Central 12-13           5-6   (0.4545)
NFC West    13-11           9-7   (0.5625)

Cumulative AFC - NFC matchups up to week  6 (including)
-------------------------------------------------------
AFC - NFC     7 - 11

Have fun,
          Rene Zandbergen (RZANDBER at ESOC.BITNET)  RCZ
From: rege@bongo.Berkeley.EDU (Ashutosh G. Rege)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Wild cards
Date: 15 Oct 1992 21:43:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: bongo.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct15.064732.29900@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
 >jg> John P. Gloria
 >cs> Calvin D. Swartzentruber
 >
 >cs> Why should 10-6 Eagles be excluded from the playoffs, just because they
 >    were in a tough conference, when 9-7 and even 8-8 (I think there were some)
 >    got in.  The system sucks!
 >
 >  Point of fact -- the Eagles are in the tough *division*, which is more rele-
 >  vant to wild-card selections.
 >
 >jg> No kidding. I remember the 49ers not making it last year, same reason. It
 >    truly sucks, but that is life in the NFL.
 >
 >  Sorry, but SF loses because with SF and Atlanta both at 10-6, but SF losing
 >  *both* games to Atlanta, that's reasonably fair. Why should one 10-6 team
 >  who beat another 10-6 team *twice*, in the *same division*, have to miss the
 >  playoffs? I recall some 49er fans whining to an incredible degree last sea-
 >  son because Atlanta won the 17-14 Atlanta game with a "Hail Mary". Folks,
 >  that's the breaks.

 Its unfortunate that the level of argument is so mediocre in this group that
 even a rational, well-thought-out analysis is met with cries of "whiner" or
 ad hominem attacks or cliches. 

 >  Actually, Denver holds the record (I believe) for missing the playoffs de-
 >  spite a good record, with an 11-5 record in 1985, Cleveland that year being 
 >  8-8 and going. Denver happened to lose to the NE Pats, but not until the 4th
 >  tiebreaker (record against common opponents) Denver at 3-3, Pats at 4-2.
  
 >  Anyway, until someone can come up with a system where teams are divided in
 >  such a way so that their relative position can be measured by a method that's
 >  better than the NFL's divisional and common-opponent formulae, I suggest
 >  we quit the whining.
  
 >Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
 >strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF

 Your counter-whining aside, the argument is not that the Falcons 
 didn't deserve to be in the playoffs, it was that the 8-8 Jets and the
 9-7 Raiders (or was it the Chiefs ?) didn't. The Eagles and Niners 
 should have replaced both these teams, it certainly would have made
 for a better caliber of game. Now, as for a better system, it is simple :

 Have 2 wildcards for each conference instead of the present 3 and have
 two "floating" wildcards for the best teams of the remainder in the league.  
 These will be determined by criteria similar to those used presently
 (i.e record, head-to-head ,common opponents etc.).

 This prevents total domination by one conference (which is unlikely in
 any event) and also prevents crappy teams like the Jets from being
 in the playoffs (c'mon, 8-8 gets you into the playoffs? Give me a break!)


 Ashu Rege
 

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: robert@landru.mtc.ti.com (Robert Treese)
Subject: Re: Cowboy *POWER* Notes 
Keywords: n
Organization: Manufacturing Technology Center, Texas Instruments, Dallas
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:12:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.183248.28650@leland.Stanford.EDU> blokhead@leland.Stanford.EDU (Darren Pakying Lum) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.135033.1740@bnr.ca> patpower@crchh458.bnr.ca (Patrick Power) writes:
>>
>*Stuff deleted*
>>
>
>Anyone know if Jimmy Smith played on Sunday against the Seahawks?
>NBC cut the local feed after the 3rd quarter. 
>
>-Is J. Smith fully recovered from the broken leg?
>-Is he fast enough to be the speed burner to replace Ace?
>-Think he will contribute more than Ace has?
>
>About Alvin Harper....what is his problem?  He should be
>getting more receptions.  Is he having a hard time getting
>open or is Aikman just not throwing to him?  Think he'll
>develop soon?
>
>

Jimmy Smith did get some PT Sunday.  Did not catch anything if I remember
correctly.  Jimmy is obviously not as fast as Ace.  He ran a 4.4 before
breaking his leg.  He will contribute a lot more then Ace.  Jimmy is
a receiver not a track man.  The question though is can he contribute this
year and the answer is probably not.  A rookie can't miss a preseason
of reps and come in and contribute like a veteran.  I saw him in preason
and I predicted he would be starting next year instead of Harper.  Now with
Harper not producing I think the chances of him starting next year are
way up there.  

I don't know what is wrong with Harper.  I have not been to any games
since the Washington and you can't watch receivers on TV.  I expect him
to come on as the year goes on but I have got a real strong feeling
that J Smith is something special.

Robert