HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kldawkin@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Kiwi)
Subject: Re: Brahms
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:28:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.235049.23025@newsgate.sps.mot.com> dwong@chopsuey.pico writes:
>In article 62493@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU, hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
>>
>>Then I met Mr. Mahler and Mr. Wagner and all hell broke loose.  I have not been
>>the same since.  A few months ago I went back and listened to most of my Brahms,
>>and I did enjoy it...but it did not induce the huge emotional catharsis that I
>>am now a glutton for.  But there is much that I have not heard...such as all
>>of the violin concerto, or the German Requiem.  Also, the little chamber music
>>that I have heard I liked, so I would like to hear some more.
>>
>>This is not to insult the Brahms faithful out there.  I would like nothing more
>>than to have some music of his grab me by the throat and make me beg...
>>
>>Any recommendations?
>
>Ror sophisticated Mahler listener like you.  How about the German Requiem and also
>the violin concerto?  BTW, have you played or sit thru the complete production of
>Wagner's RING before?  I think you may change your mind about Brahms once you have
>done that.
>
>d. wong

Well, I am afraid that I *have* listened to the complete Ring Cycle
and I think it's absolutely fantastic and in comparison, just about 
everything I've ever heard by Brahms is wishy-washy claptrap... but
I got some good suggestions about his music and I'll try and find
some of the pieces and see if I like them. 

Thanks to all.

Kyle.
   ,------------------------------.,---------------------------------.   \._,
  /   7   ,7  o             o     / kldawkins@cayley.waterloo.edu    /   < /
 /   /--<'   /   /  ,  /   /     / kldawkins@descartes.waterloo.edu /     ' 
/  -'    `--'`--'`-'`-'`--'`-   / kldawkins@napier.waterloo.edu    /    /7 
`------------------------------'`---------------------------------'    //  NZ!
"Don't call me God. Call me Pope so I have something to aspire to."    '
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Subject: stress
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:17:35 GMT

By amazing coincidence, BMG has just issued a disc called something like 
"Music to Relieve Stress By"! Guess what's on it--Albinoni Adagio and the 
Pachelbel Canon and a few other hoary old standards. Old wine, new 
bottles.

r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar)
Subject: Re: Tuba
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:14:26 GMT

In article <Bxv3uC.JBv@dcs.ed.ac.uk> la@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Lewis Alderton) writes:
>Some wierdo composer wrote a Tuba concerto. Anybody know
>who he was and what he called it.
>(Anyone says "tubby the tuba" and I scream OK)
>-- 

Last time I checked, people did not consider Vaughn-Williams a wierdo.  But
he did write a tuba concerto.

Harold Smoliar
English horn, Pittsburgh Symphony
Piano, Symphony Jazz Quartet
From: jpc@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov (J. Porter Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Brahms symphonies set by Sanderling
Date: 19 Nov 92 03:09:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: avdms8.jpc.722142594
Organization: NASA/MSFC

I have heard some good things about a set of the Brahms symphonies (and
other things) on RCA Eurodisc with Kurt Sanderling conducting the
Staatskapelle Dresden.

Anybody out there heard this set?  How good is it?  How good is the
sound?  Which repeats does he take?

I've got a couple of versions of some of these works already but would
like to acquire maybe one more.

It seems to be attractively priced...

-- 
J. Porter Clark    jpc@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov or jpc@gaia.msfc.nasa.gov
NASA/MSFC Flight Data Systems Branch

"Why do I have to keep reading these technical manuals?"
				 --Roger Waters
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402)
Subject: Re: mozart/handel - messiah
Originator: tan@msc2.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 02:03:46 GMT

From article <1992Nov21.225358.7271@Princeton.EDU>, by roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig):
> In article <1992Nov21.210951.18576@msc.cornell.edu> tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402) writes:
>>From article <92325.172728IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, by <IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>:
>>> I was wondering if anyone has ever seen references to a
>>> revison of the "Messiah" by W.A. Mozart?
> 
>>It's really a "reorchestration."  The orchestral parts have been augmented,
>>most obviously by adding clarinets (which did not, of course, exist in Handel's
>>time) and French Horns. 
> 
> This does not, of course, explain Handel's Overture for Two Clarinets
> and Horn, or the aria he wrote with clarinet obbligato in one of his
> operas.  Clarinets were invented around 1700.
> 
Thank you for the correction.  Clearly I hadn't realized that Handel had
written for the clarinet.  I was under the impression that the clarinet
before Mozart's time had serious playability problems (weak notes, to wit)
and was not widely used (certainly it was not used in "Messiah".)


Dave

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Musicians rubbishing composers !
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:51:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.192740.5063@math.ucla.edu> pugh@pico.math.ucla.edu (David Pugh) writes:
>Okay folks, here is our new thread title. There appears to be some
>interest in this so fire away !
>
>This can also include proposterous statements or events.
>
>Here are some that I know about.
[....]
> Some conductor (forgotten who) when asked if he had conducted any
> Stockhausen, replied "No, but I've trodden in some"

Attributed to Sir Thomas Beecham, but probably apocryphal.

> Tschaikovsky's played his 1st piano concerto to a pianist (was it Von Bulow?)
> who then said it was clumsy, unplayable, crude, ridiculous, etc. (well
> words to that effect)

Probably Anton Rubinstein.

Mahler played his Second Symphony to Hans von Bulow who said "if this
is music, then I no longer understand music."

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: sse@wind.bellcore.com (Samuel S Epstein)
Subject: prominent percussion
Reply-To: sse@wind.bellcore.com (Samuel S Epstein)
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown, NJ
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 20:01:11 GMT


My 9 year old nephew has started drum lessons. I'd like to
get him a couple of percussion CD's to properly inspire him.
Drum solos are fairly common in some kinds of music. I'll
buy him at least one non-Western CD. In Western classical
music drum solos are not unknown, but I'm not familiar with
any CD of classical pieces that very prominently features
solo percussion and that a 9 year old is likely to
appreciate (even one that's very open to new experiences).
Any suggestions?
From: lungtt@gus22.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Recommnedations please
Date: 24 Nov 92 05:28:42 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Nov24.013849.13774@news.columbia.edu> gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>In article <By6xFE.M5s@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> eng tat tan <etan@silver.ucs.indi
>ana.edu> writes:
>>Could someone please recommend good recordings...
>You probably should have the Vivaldi Gloria...One of the few things that
>man wrote that doesn't wear on me :-)   I believe Pinnock has a good one.

The Telarc recording with the Atlanta Symphony is well-praised in most
of the reviews.  I'm pleased with it too.  It also comes with a recording
of Bach's Magnificat.

Oh yeah...be careful here...I just now remember that Vivaldi wrote
*two* Glorias in D.  Which one's which?  Are we discussing the same one?
The recording I'm thinking of is the one in D Major, having lyrics of the
allegro [first of eight to eleven movements] as the following, repeated 
in many ways by a combined choir:

   Gloria, gloria...in excelsis Deo 
 
   (Please excuse my poor Latin spelling)
This may actually be the more popular of the two Glorias in D.

Terence
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: Music to calm down by
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:07:44 GMT


In article <BxzBp4.2D6@fc.hp.com>, rodean@fc.hp.com (Bruce Rodean) writes:
|> 
|> Here's my $0.02, but like anything else others may have different
|> reactions to various music compositions.  These are CDs that I have and
|> like to put on when I want to relax and take it easy:
|> 
[stuff deleted]

You're right! Some different reactions:

|> Barber                    Adagio, Essays, Medea's Dance, School for Scandal
|> 			  Slatkin/Saint Louis SO

CAUTION: That's Medea's Dance *of Revenge*, and it is a *VICIOUS* piece...

|> Strauss                   Metamorphosen, Tod und Verklarung
|> 			  Karajan/Berlin PO

I find these two pieces about as calming as being slapped upside the
head with a sledgehammer. Metamorphosen is kind of a prolonged exercise
in choking and suffocation. Tod und Verklarung (Death and Transfiguration) 
follows this up nicely with the violent throes of an agonizing death, 
dripping with lugubriousity, wrenching and exhausting. 

However, it is possible to be calmed by Strauss. I would suggest the 
Four Last Songs, performed by Karajan/Janowitz. These were written in
the same year Strauss died (1949), and although this is very late post
romantic, the songs are (to me) one of the more glorious of sunsets on
a musical era, bathing your mind's ear and eye in a gentle and lingering
twilight...

- BK
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Tangent Re: tonality and modern music
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Date: 21 Nov 92 17:28:09 EST
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Nov21.023751.25749@nuscc.nus.sg>
smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>I think the operative concept in the above discussion is "experiment."  The
>issue is not that of process versus product but rather the current social
>obsession that all activity must result in a product to be held up for public
>assessment.  Beethoven knew better than to publish his sketchbooks, let alone
>all those fruits of his improvisation.  He had the liberty to experiment with
>his material without being accountable for his every action.  Today it seems
>as if composers no longer have that luxury.  Experiments are all right as long
>as the results are successful;  but if the results are always successful, they
>are not experiments any more, are they?  [...]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  Are modern composers obliged,
as Beethoven wasn't, to publish sketchbooks, improvisations, or other
experiments?  Or do these composers no longer "know better" than to do this?
[At least Beethoven did not *destroy* his sketches as was Brahms' practice...]

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Name that Opera
From: vnguyen@husc8.harvard.edu (Vinh Nguyen)
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:01:50 EST
Reply-To: vnguyen@husc8.harvard.edu
Originator: vnguyen@husc8.harvard.edu

In article <Nov20.033055.50452@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>,
 hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
 
>   Hey, I hope this is not a FAQ!  I swear I don't think it's on the list.
>Anyway, since my knowledge of opera is limited to Wagner, Mozart and Beethoven,
> I will have to flaunt my ignorance of the Italians in public...
> 
> What is the opera featured at the end of 'The Godfather, III' ???
 
Appropriately enough, it's Pietro Mascagni's Cavalleria Rusticana.

> Thanks,
> 
>   I just bought Verdi's 'Otello' a few days ago, with Domingo/Maazel.  It sort
> of blew me away. I was expecting fluffy, irritating, mindless bel canto, etc.
			    	   ??????????????????????????????????????

Pray you, what does THIS mean ??????

> Instead I found some of the most beautiful, original, and profound music I
> have ever heard.  Wow.  While I still think of Wagner as the greatest, I think
> I can really come to love this music. Has anyone else had the same experience,
> i.e., finding Verdi after finding Wagner and being very pleasantly suprised?
 
I have the OPPOSITE experience, having found Verdi as first love and later
finding Wagner and being mildly surprised that Wagner's music isn't as bad
as it is touted to be.  I've recently added Tristan as the 8th complete
Wagner's opera I've subjected myself to listen to.  Well, I'm two-thirds
of the way through the "canon".  Now, I'm very surprised at myself since
I'm barely two-thirds through the Verdi canon and even less far along in 
the Puccini canon!  

>   Also, I have noticed that Otello and Tristan und Isolde have many musical
> similarities.   Anyone else notice this?
> 
> Mike Hurben
> 
> 		     "There is no music without ideology." - Shostakovich
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Subject: Re: tonality and modern music
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:13:25 GMT

In article <l9y1xlc@rpi.edu> I write:
>This is a good point, and certainly reflects the way most learning is done
>in our society.  However, I think it is easy to let reading (especially as
>regards unfamiliar music) overpower actually listening.  One can feel that
>one understands what is being written in english better than one is under-
>standing the music, and go on to let the written word define the music.  I
>like to read about composers sometimes, but I will always let what I hear
>have the final say.  In considering a very unfamiliar context such as very
>old music, or music of other cultures, I am more likely to use the music I
>hear to help me understand what is being written -- or more specifically
>how our modern context is distorting the way another culture might feel about
>itself.  This is partly a matter of personal disposition: music is simply
>more meaningful to me than the written word, and for example my study of
>world history and anthropology is greatly enhanced, and really reeavaluated,
>by listening to what authentic music is available.  Ideally, one works these
>connections both ways.

Another comment...

One thing I *do* like to read is some information from the performers on
how they are approaching the music and what choices they may have made.
This is helpful in evaluating what is actually being performed -- as is
listening to other works by the same performers, other performances of
the same piece, or barring that other performances of works from a similar
genre or time period.  But I really admire the perfomers of lesser heard
music; it really seems like they do a great job.  (I guess the botched
performances are mostly confined to the standard repertoire, for whatever
reason.)

T. M. McComb

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Subject: feminine instruments (was Re: Tubas (was Re: Euphoniums (was: Tubas)))
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:54:02 GMT

In article <By12M8.805@mach1.wlu.ca> sweaver3@mach1.wlu.ca (scott weaver 9209 U) writes:
>In article <DBROOKS.92Nov18231921@penge.osf.org> dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
>>jim@fuji.eng.yale.edu (James J. Szinger) writes:
>>
>>The Italian plural, Tube.  Surprisingly, the tuba is one of the few
>>feminine instruments -- um, perhaps it isn't so surprising, considering its
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>In French, it's 'le tuba' (i.e. masculine)

In French, instruments divide as follows:
* feminine: viol, clarinet, flute, harp, double bass, spinet, trumpet, cymbal,
	guitar
* masculine: violin, viola, cello, piano, harpsichord, bassoon, oboe, tuba,
	trombone, horn, triangle, xylophone, saxophone, drum, lute, theorbe

The most amusing is the organ, which is masculine in the singular form,
but turns feminine when plural...

-- 

	Francois Velde

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: The worst composer ever
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 19:06:30 GMT

In article <g8FkuB7w165w@student.business.uwo.ca> r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith) writes:
>It's a poll--who do you think is the worst famous composer of them all?
>
>Let me start it off. I think it's Delius. Then again maybe it's Arthur 
>Bliss.

Andrew Lloyd Webber.

There - that should kill this thread before it gets started.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: HAYDN (& unrelated, Bax)
Date: 16 Nov 1992 11:04:06 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Marc Andreessen (marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: While I'm posting, I'll pitch in another question -- can someone
: experienced in these things tell me what Arnold Bax's music is like?
: I've been hearing good things about the cycle of symphonic works on
: Chandos by Bryden Thomson, but I've never actually heard the music.
: To be blunt, I know he started composing about the time I usually
: consider music to have gone to hell.

You won't like him then. I love him, but then he started composing
around the time I usually consider music to have reached heaven. 

The tone poems are the music you would expect of a person who heard 
the Sidhe (ie Fairy Bells: qv "Farewell my Youth" - his biog) and who 
wrote Irish tales under a pseudonym.

The symphonies are great - rugged granite outcrops, to be appreciated by
people who like DSCH, Sibelius and Nielsen. My favourites are No 2 and
No 7, but it's rather like picking a favourite symphony of any beloved
composer. 

(Interesting note for Desert Island Diskers - I'll take the Beethoven,
RVW, SIbelius, Nielsen, DSCH, Bax, Brian, Simpson, Brahms and (:->)
Haydn boxed symphony cycles. Now *That's* cheating... )
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: johnme@ecs.comm.mot.com (John Meyer)
Subject: Re: Brahms Violin Concerto
Organization: pcb_design
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:26:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.153254.21878@msc.cornell.edu> tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402) writes:
>From article <1992Nov17.115723.27778@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, by johnme@ecs.comm.mot.com (John Meyer):
>> 
>> DAVE;
>> 
>> Acording to the schwann (opus) guide.  G. Neveu,Schmidt-Isserstedt,North German RSO
>>   do the concerto on the ACANTA label CD-43314  DDD
>
>Many thanks!...but do you really mean "DDD"?  Or is that part of the catalog
>number?


Yes according to schwann its' an all "digital" recording! hope the performance is as good as the one you remember.


john

Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: app45293@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (ZUSS)
Subject: Re: the Drovers???
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:45:48 GMT

jepstein@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Jonathan Epstein) writes:


>Has anyone ever heard of a band called the Drovers? they are playing a
>twin-bill with God Street Wine and I want to know what kind of stuff
>these guys play? Is it worth my while to check them out?

	They are definitely hot.  I just saw them for the first time
two nights ago at Mabels in Champaign, and I was most impressed.
	The music they play is somehow based on Irish folk music, and 
is made into a very jam-oriented rock that makes you shake yer booty.
One of the band members plays only the fiddle.  There is also a bassist,
guitarist, and drummer, and the fifth guy who did most of the lead 
singing and played the conga, the drums, the kalimba, the PVC pipe,
and probably some other funky instruments.  As far as I know, their
setlist was entirely originals, and they did "You Can't Always Get What
You Want" for the encore.  They really put on a fun-spirited live show
and the band really set a lively rapport with the audience.
	I think the band is Chicago-based, and they seem to play in
Champaign about once a month.  Where are they playing with GSW?
	Check 'em out, they are quite tasty.

-- 
 --  Tony Pulokas
     University of Illinois, Urbana/Champaign
     College of Engineering
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: jepstein@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Cheez Whizard)
Subject: Re: chords at beginning of fluffhead
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:30:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.003338.24234@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU> Fronefield.Crawford@williams.edu writes:
>Does anybody have the chords (or more specifically, the piano part) for
>the beginning of Fluffhead?

	C-D-G-F C-D-G 
	(as a guitarist, I play, as Trey does, the open C shape chord
	 and just slide it up and down. Of course, there is a little
	 more to it, and when I get the time, I'l try to post the
	 little nuances.)

	the rest of the Fluffhead part of the song is just G-Fadd2

	the ending...("Fluffhead!...)  is G-C-Am-D

	I havent tried the Fluffhead's Travels part, but I have recorded
  	the rest for anyone interested in a full guitar arrangement
	of the simple parts of the song.

>
>thanks,
>Froney


- Jon

===================================================
|| The shortest distance between two points      ||
|| is a straight line in the opposite direction  ||
===================================================
|| e-mail: jepstein@titan.ucc.umass.edu          ||
===================================================

Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: David Stoller <nitewing@well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: If You Haven't Received Your Tickets Yet!!
Reply-To: nitewing@well.sf.ca.us
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 06:13:28 GMT

Well, my Friday Portchesters finally arrived today!!
(Only 10 days after my NYE tickets got here!! :-)
So they did actually mail some out, which is the good news...
But since it's getting close to show time (11 Days!!! & counting fast! :-)
if anyone does not receive their tickets, you can call Ticketmaster
and request a Lost Ticket Voucher which will take the place of
your missing tickets... You'll porbalby have to ask for Customer
Service (HAH! :-) and be put on hold for about seven years, but
at least you'll get in with the tickets you overpaid for! :-)
So I guess this is what the 30% service charge is for!! :-)

Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: "Davis, Matthew" <DAVISM@dickinson.edu>
Subject: albany net gathering
Reply-To: DAVISM@dickinson.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:44:09 GMT

I can't remember the name of the place across the street from the Palace 
either, but my mom goes there quite often and she said she wasn't sure if the 
management would be too happy if they got mobbed by a bunch of crazed Phish-
heads.(I'm using her words) She says it's a yuppy hang-out, and on a friday 
night at that time there would be alot of people there. I've never been there 
so I'm just writing what my mon told me. Noone flame me if I'm totally 
incorrect. I have been to the Half-Moon, and I'm quite sure that they would 
be hospitable to a bunch of crazed Phish-heads.(I'm using my mom's words 
again) If someone has been to the place across the street from the palace and 
knows for a fact that I'm wrong, write in or write me. We should probably 
figure this out soon. Later!
                          -Matt Davis
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish