HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:42:53 -0400 
From: Vernon H Harmon <vh00+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Chargers 20, Patriots 10

>Eric Dieniemy and Marion Butts each scored a TD....for the Chargers

great, but what we *really* want to know is: how did Humphries look? Or
did they start Gagliano?

--Vernon.
From: Derek_Juntunen@abcd.Houghton.MI.US (Derek Juntunen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: FTP SITE for stats?
Distribution: world
Date: 22 Aug 92 20:49:29 EST
Organization: Amiga BitSwap Central Dispatch

Just look at the title of this message.  

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995
From: andy@misha.central.sun.com (Andy Knipp Metro SE)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: holdouts
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:11:51 GMT
Reply-To: andy@misha.central.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: misha.central.sun.com

In article 20705@optima.cs.arizona.edu, dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal) writes:
>
>Obviously all fans hate holdouts when it involves their team.
>
>My question is, why don't the owners just refuse to give in?  As long
>as they have the draft (illegal as it is, most likely), a player can't
>go anywhere else for a year.  So if the owners just say, ok, you sign
>or forget it, the player would sign, more often than not.  Otherwise
>the player is sacrificing 1 million or more (1st rounders) for the year,
>and will certainly be drafted lower the next year.  So they will lose
>even more money because of the contract offer in a lower draft slot.
>Given the few years the average player plays, they can't afford to sit
>out and forfeit one year.


Owners have no problem letting players who they own the rights forever sit out
for a year.  Bears fans remember Todd Bell & Al Harris who sat out the Super
Bowl year with contract disputes.  

Draft choices are a different story.  If Desmond Howard were to sit out,  he would
go back into the draft next year.  Sitting out again would make him a free 
agent.  No team wants to lose the 6th player in the draft.




---
Andy Knipp  SE                |
Sun Microsystems              | The secret of success is sincerity,
Schaumburg, IL                | once you can fake that,  you have it made.
andy@sunbird.central.sun.com  |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: UC516349@mizzou1.missouri.edu (The Pseudo Edge)
Subject: Re: 49ers/Chargers
Organization: University of Missouri
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 22:22:03 GMT
X-Posted-From: mizzou1.missouri.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

 Yeah, I know he's doing it against the 2nd teamers, but didn't he
go like 5-1 as a starter last year?  Those games were against the
1st team, & they were games that counted. I think the measure of
what a QB does should be, how he performs with the 1st team OL & WRs.
Because then he has the chance of playing with best they have.
 
Wayne
From: johna@psdcae1.gvg.tek.com (John Abt)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Was Montana, now 49er pred.
Date: 13 Aug 92 05:17:55 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <166bq2INNqus@agate.berkeley.edu> max@ocf.berkeley.edu (Fude Max Chuang) writes:
>Hmm, does the last-second, 40-some yarder against Cincinnati in 87
>count as a Hail Mary as well?  (The one where Wyche called a sweep
>to try to run out the clock)  Or is it not a fluke if Montana does it?

No way. That was a crossing pattern where Walsh called the play
and Montana threw straight to Rice. Wyche blew that game - he could
have won it by taking a saftey.

John Abt
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: vamplew@probitas.cs.utas.edu.au (Peter Vamplew)
Subject: Terminology question
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:20:46 GMT

I know this is a pretty stupid question, but I've never been able
to get a decent answer to this. Why does the fullback stand in
front of the halfback? (and I don't want 100 messages saying "So
he can block for the halfback").

What I mean is that the name seems confusing. It would make more sense
to have the quarterback, then the halfback and then the fullback, right?

I know that halfbacks tend to be called tailbacks now, which lessens 
the problem, but it still seems odd. Back in the dim dark mists of the
past, was the fullback ever the guy furthest back from the line of 
scrimmage? If so, when did this change?

Yours in confusion

Peter Vamplew

Bengals fanatic and holder of the world record for greatest distance
covered through the air after being blocked (estimated at five yards
backwards with a maximum elevation of around 6 feet).
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Wednesday, 19 Aug 1992 01:01:46 EDT
From: William Grant <343VTQ2@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: SAINTS stats wanted

Could someone e-mail me the stats on the Saints game Sunday?  What's
the story at QB??  Hebert or Walsh??
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: davewood@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (David Rex Wood)
Subject: Re: POOL - Separate Newsgroup?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:37:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.131047.1170@hellgate.utah.edu> twolf@cs.utah.edu (Tom Wolf) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.173616.26353@colorado.edu> davewood@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (David Rex Wood) writes:
>>Last week, several people posted "Where are the results" messages after they
>>had already been posted.  I have also had many people say that it is hard to
>>find the different posts each week.
>>
>>As a possible solution to some of these problems, I was considering creating
>>a group, "rec.sport.football.pro.pool" which would contain only my posts
>>about the pool and any discussion of same.  It would also be available for
>>any other pools that start up...
>>
>>Please let me know if you have an opinion on this idea either way.  If people
>>seem to think it would be a useful thing, I'll do it.  If not, I won't.
>>
>>If we could keep discussion of this idea on the newsgroup, it would keep my
>>mail spool to a less obnoxious size, but replies through email are also fine.
>>
>>-- 
>
>Glad you have brought it up. I don't think a new group is needed. I think
>a cheaper, more effective method would be to have the owner of the pool
>create a mailing list. He could then mail the pool info just to the people
>interested in the pool. This would facilitate the discussion in the pool,
>in that only pool people would get the mail. There is no reason to distribute
>to the world a message that is addressed to small group of people.
>
>Tom Wolf
>

Just a note here.  The "small group of people" you speak of is, in my case,
over 450 and still growing at a clip of 50 new people per week.  I already
maintain a list of about 50 users who want the information mailed to them
each week.  While I would consider a mailing list for all 450+ people, I
don't think it is very practical.  As for the "cheapness" of a new newsgroup,
I'm not sure I know where you are coming from.  Creating a new group is
very simple to do.

Still, perhaps the mailing list I already have combined with the posts here
are enough.

Anyone else care to comment?
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder
  BRONCOS!!        R.S.F.P. Internet Football Pool Organizer        BRONCOS!!
               Owner, Boulder Houlders --- Owner, Colorado 14ers
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Bob Marshall)
Subject: Re: Instant Replay
Reply-To: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 23:47:50 GMT

I've always liked the idea of allowing each team a fixed number of
opportunites to call for a review, like maybe two times per half. But
I think the idea that other posters have mentioned (allow for a team
to call for a review at the expense of a timeout should the call not
be reversed) is even better. This sort of incorporates my idea, since
the number of timeouts per half is limited itself, so that a team 
could call for a maximum of three reviews per half. The only flaw it
has is that if a team uses its three timeouts for legimate reasons,
and then the refs make a blatant error, there is no avenue to reverse
it. I guess that's tough. It's still a much better system than the
previous one.

The only thing I would add is that there should be a team of three
officials in the review booth, and that they each make a ruling one
way or the other, independent of the ruling on the field. Whatever
they say goes; none of this "the-refs-are-right-until-inconclusively
proven-wrong" stuff. Either that, or have two officials in the booth, 
and combine their two rulings with the ruling on the field. That way 
we get closer to the truth of what "really" happened, probablistically 
speaking.

=============================================================================
Bob Marshall                     \\     "It ain't age
Lockheed Missiles & Space Co.     \\     That makes me look this way
Sunnyvale, CA                      \\    It ain't the years, boys,
marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com\\   It's the miles"
"I tell the truth 'cept when I lie"  \\     - Chris LeDoux
=============================================================================
From: paul@austin.ibm.com (Paul Wadehra)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Redskins impressions (was Re: Niners tip Deadskins!)
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:47:30 GMT
Reply-To: paul@innerdoor.austin.ibm.com
Organization: IBM, Austin
Originator: paul@wadehra.austin.ibm.com


In article <1992Aug17.182045.2427@linus.mitre.org>, lewis@aera8700.mitre.org (Keith Lewis) writes:
> 
> How many years has it been since Green bothered entering the "NFL's fastest
> man" competition?
> 

He not only entered, but _won_ the thing (again), either last year or the year
before.

-- 
Paul Wadehra 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: davewood@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (David Rex Wood)
Subject: Season Schedule
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:43:52 GMT

A couple people have asked for this in the past few days.  Here is a repost
from about a month ago:

From boulder!agate!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!leo.unm.edu!jawebb Wed Jul 15 08:07:16 MDT 1992
Article: 23380 of rec.sport.football.pro
From: ayusuf@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Ahmad Yusuf)
Subject: Cowboy Games
Keywords: Satellite
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax Va.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 01:14:04 GMT

I'm looking for someone/someplace in the Northern Virginia/DC/Maryland
area where I can watch satellite broadcasts of da 'Boys.

(Using a friends account, address reply to attn of: STAS P

Thanks

P.S. I sure wish the Cowboy fans who are posting would lose their
tunnel-vision when it comes to the cowboys. The are a good team, but
they are in the toughest division in the NFL. They have to face the high
power offense and defense of the Skins and Eagles twice each, plus play
the Raiders,Chiefs, and Broncos during the regular season.

Face it, they will not win the division, but will get a wildcard. 
Their record will be 10-6. They will not be in the superbowl, or the NFC
Championship game this year.

As much as I would like them to go all the way, there comes a time when
you have to be rational. Just don't set yourself up for too much
dissapointment.

Cowboys in '93

Stas P.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jag@unislc.uucp (John Ganske)
Subject: Re: Minnesota Vikings
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:24:39 GMT


     Some Vike's tidbits: 

     (Minneapolis StarTribune Wednesday August 12, 1992)

	Vikings linebacker Ray Berry, the last of the team's holdouts,
	signed a contract for one year and an option Tuesday night
	and reported to training camp.

	Rich Gannon signed on Saturday, and watched the pre-season
	game with Buffalo that evening in street clothes from the
	sideline.  The Minneapolis StarTribune reported that Gannon
	made significant conncessions in accepting management's 
	final offer (maybe I can dig out the old sports section
	from the recycling pile and provide some details on
	Gannon's signing if there is interest).

	Here are some bits from a little box in the paper called
	"Training camp report":

	  Yesterday's highlights/ On the second day of head-to-head
	  competition between Sean Salisbury and Rich Gannon at 
	  quarterback, Salisbury looked good in the 2-minute drill.

	  ...and lowlights/ Gannon's 2-minute drill (he ran with the
	  second team, and Salisbury with the first team) lasted
	  three plays - two incompletions and an interception to 
	  linebacker Carlos Jenkins, who will be hard to keep out
	  of the starting lineup (Jenkins was drafted from Michigan
	  State - I beleive in last year's draft.  I remember that
	  he was prominent in a good defense at MSU, but does not
	  meet the size specs. that make a linebacker a high
	  draft pick possibility - of course we all know why
	  the Vikes have to try to find these lower round "steals"
	  to rebuild the team)

	  Second look/ The perception that the Bills didn't care
	  about their game (a 24 to 3 Viking victory) against the
	  Vikings on Saturday is widely held, but a few players and 
	  coaches offered this obervation: The Bills blitzed about
	  15 times, highly unusual for a preseason game - especially
	  one that a team didn't care about.  "You said it," said
	  Vikings coach Dennis Green. "I didn't".

	  Fenney hurting/ Vikings fullback Rick Fenney's hip injury is
	  not healing, so the team is sending him to Cleveland to see
	  a specialist.  The injury could keep him out for the season. 

	  All for now

	  John A. Ganske 
	  2200 Host Communications Software
	  UNISYS, Roseville, Minnesota
          jag@unislc.slc.unisys.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: schalene@sequent.com (Schalene Dagutis)
Subject: Re: Redskins impressions (was Re: Niners tip Deadskins!)
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 16:50:51 GMT

In article <ELM.92Aug17001848@terrorism.berkeley.edu> elm@cs.berkeley.edu writes:
Oops!  I deleted your paragraph asking questions about the Skins WRs.
Clark and Monk are definitely on the team.  Saunders could be trade
bait, but if he is they are keeping it EXTREMELY quiet....not a peep.
Usually some type of rumors start floating around.  I'm sure a lot of
people don't truly appreciate Saunders because of Monk and Clark, but
having Saunders in there make Monk and Clark better.  Many defensive
schemes can successfullly neutralize 2 great receivers on occasion,
but 3 is very difficult.  Saunders' contribution is very important but
doesn't often show up in the stats.  Gibbs has said this year he is
planning more plays for Saunders becuase he has so willingly given up
his personal stats for the good of the team over the last two years.  I
doubt we'll see much of it (new plays) before the regular season, though.  
Hobbs continues to be talked about highly by the coaches....I'm sure 
they'll keep him on the team somehow.

Desmond Howard is another situation entirely.  No, I doubt they'll
trade him, but Gibbs got as mad as I've seen him in sometime over an
interviewer's questions regarding negotiations with Howard's agent.  He
mostly blasted the agent.  But he certainly feels that of all the
hold-outs Howard needs to get his butt into camp.  If he holds out
much longer, I don't know what is in store for him.  When Gibbs was
asked about it being too late to get Howard into the offense, Gibbs
said yes it was too late.  Then he was asked about punt/kick-off
returning....Gibbs said we have Mitchell he's *darn* (unsually tough
language for Gibbs) good.  Sounds like Gibbs is so mad he might park
him on the development/practice squad.  
>
>Any further news on ending Lachey's holdout?  The Skins could sure use
>him!
>
Lachey and Howard are represented by the same agent.  The agent and
his partner (handling Lachey's negotiations) were in at the Skins
training camp waiting on the team to get back from London.  They spent
3 hours with Casserley that night and most of the next day.  All signs
were good at that point, according to the news.  Then I heard this
morning that talks broke off.  So who knows.....I'd much rather have
Lachey in campe than Howard.  Coaches and players agree getting Green
in is important but he doesn't need as much time as the offensive
players.

schalene

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: twolf@cs.utah.edu (Tom Wolf)
Subject: Re: Terminology question
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:47:11 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <24cfzjn@Unify.Com> tsv@dbrus.Unify.Com (Tim Vannaman) writes:
>In article <vamplew.714190846@probitas> vamplew@probitas.cs.utas.edu.au (Peter Vamplew) writes:
>>I know this is a pretty stupid question, but I've never been able
>>to get a decent answer to this. Why does the fullback stand in
>>front of the halfback? 
>
>  Because he is bigger and heavier and can't run as far as the HB :)
>
>>

Sorry, good guess, but no. According to what I have read on the history of
football, at one point in time, I think it was the old wing T formation of
the 30's, the backs stood in a formation such that one back stood way behind
the line. He was called the full back. Then 1 or 2 backs stood about halfway
between the full back and the line. They were called halfbacks. Finally,
you guessed it, the quarterback stood between the halfbacks and the line and
thus was a quarter of the way back.

Formations have changed since then, but the names seem to stick with the
job.

Tom Wolf
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Info needed quickly
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:10:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: uwm.1992Aug19.211055.27511
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee

In article <1992Aug19.115933@macdfv.dfrf.nasa.gov> voracek@macdfv.dfrf.nasa.gov (David Voracek) writes:
>could someone e-mail me a list of the probable starters for every
>team in the following positions.....
>
>Quarterback
>running back 1
>running back 2
>Wide Reciever 1
>wide Reciever 2
>TE
>
>if you guessed FFL, you are correct....I have seen a lot of reports
>of people moving and stuff...i can not find a publication that
>has current team rosters... any suggestions.....vital...ASAP
>before thursday evening.....
>
>
>dave

   Ditto...                                                  

   --salty
From: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Washington Redskins News - 8/19/92
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:31:10 GMT
Reply-To: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Organization: Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center

HOLDOUTS:
The Redskins are making some progress with the holdouts, but still no
deals.  The Redskins seem closer to signing Desmond Howard than Jim
Lachey or Darrell Green.  The Redskins General Manager Charley Casserly
said that it is possible that Howard may agree to the deal tonight (Monday),
but he isn't optimistic.  And that the Jim Lachey deal might follow 
in one day or two.

Desmond Howard: wants a four-year deal worth around $1.75 million per season.
		Redskins' offer is $1.45 million per season.

Jim Lachey:     wants a one- or two-year deal worth $2 million per season.
		Redskins' offer is three- or four-year deal worth
		$1.2 million per season.

Darrell Green:  wants $2 million per season.
		Redskins' offer is $1.2 million per season.

INJURIES:
Offensive lineman Mark Adickes will see another specialist on Thursday
about the back injury that has been plaguing him most of the training
camp.  Hopefully, a rest will cure the problem, but the worst case is
an operation that might end his pro career.

If the disk has to be removed, the three vertebrae will have to be fused, 
thus ending his pro career.  Adickes was born with a deformity in a disk
that makes the vertebrae weak.  He was injured while pass blocking against
Fred Stokes during a practice two days ago before the Redskins' first 
exhibition game.  He was trying to anchor himself, arching his back 
against Stokes' bull rush when the pains shot down both of his legs.

TRAINING CAMP:
Because of the London trip, Gibbs altered the workout procedure on Tuesday.
The players were not required to lift in the morning and the afternoon
practice began one hour earlier.

Russ Grimm, the offensive guard who retired recently, is now the Redskins'
tight end coach.

Source:  The Washington Post, August 19, 1992

---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Steve Williams                           swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rege@bongo.Berkeley.EDU (Ashutosh G. Rege)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Rice to holdout for the year? (So sez Eddie D. (so sez Ira M. ...))
Date: 17 Aug 1992 22:56:02 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bongo.berkeley.edu

According to SF Chronicle's major fart Ira Miller, Eddie DeBartolo says
he does not believe that the Niners will sign Jerry Rice and he (E.D.)
does not think that Rice will play for the Niners this year. "I do
not think he will be in a 49ers uniform this year", DeBartolo was
quoted as saying. However, according to E.D., Niner president Policy
does not agree with that assessment. The two sides are reportedly
$ 1.5 million per year apart. 

My comments : This is of course in stark contrast to what DeBartolo
said during the game on NBC yesterday. The Chronicle reporters have
repeatedly shown all kinds of bias (both against the Niners
and the A's players - witness Lowell Cohn's ethnic slurs about Jose
Canseco). Plus it is inconceivable that the Niners would let something
like this happen, but then I'd have said the same thing about Lott. 

Losing Rice would be a major blow obviously. Also, John Taylor is
not going to play against the Chargers. Hope this is not going to 
be another injury-plagued season for JT. That'll leave them with
Sherrard and Lewis as starters and Kyles as backup. Not quite Rice and 
Taylor.  Keith DeLong is the only other veteran unsigned. 

Ashu Rege

P.S. I asked this before and I repeat - what happened to Darian Hagan
on Sunday against Washington? Looked like Lewis/Logan with the inside
track on KR/PR duties. 

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: thaddeus@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Thaddeus R. Crews)
Subject: Re: Dallas Cowboys Q & A
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:25:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.183949.11606@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com> robert@landru.mtc.ti.com (Robert Treese) writes:
>Just my evaluation of where the Cowboys stand right now.
>
>Offensively.  In one word solid and deep.  The line should be improved and
               ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In one word, COUNT AGAIN!

	[continuous Cowboy rambling deleted]
>
>Robert
>robert@dragon.mtc.ti.com

Thad Crews
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Some people have a way with words, and some people, ... oh ... *not* have
a way, I suppose..."  -- Steve Martin (verified by Robert  :-))
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro