HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mjvande@pbhye.PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Alliance for a Paving Moratorium (Alert)
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:01:21 GMT
Reply-To: mjvande@PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

---Where do they get this stuff?  The light rail built in Santa Clara
---county was far more expensive than this, while the freeways were far
---less expensive.  Don't they think they can make their point without
---gross exaggeration?
-
--It's not much of an exaggeration. The Cypress Freeway will cost over
--a $billion for 1.5 miles. You must be talking about construction of
--additional lanes in existing ROW. What about highway 85??
-
-Yes, it's *possible* that a highway can cost almost $1 billion per mile and
-that light rail can cost "only" $10-$15M per mile.  But those amounts are
-*far* from the norm, and you know it damn well.  And in most areas of the
-country, where starter homes don't cost $250,000, the cheaper land acquisition
-costs make freeways cheaper (usually).  Half of the cost in building Route 85
-is in land acquisition.  Very little of the cost of rail is for that purpose.
-
-Highway 85:  About $500 million for an 18-mile stretch, or $27.8 million per
-mile.  How much did light rail cost through downtown San Jose?  I'll bet it
-was a hell of a lot more than $27.8 million per mile.  My point isn't that
-rail is always more expensive--it's that you can use numbers to say pretty
-much whatever the hell you want them to, and you're being disingenuous by
-peddling off those loaded numbers as a typical, normal comparison.  That's
-bullschmidt.
 
Your comments are worthless, unless you propose better figures. Plan a light
rail line (not BART -- we are talking about light rail) & an EQUIVALENT
freeway (in person-carrying capacity: one rail line = several freeway lanes)
and THEN do the comparison.
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
From: adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt)
Subject: Re: Cars as "something better"
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:19:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.173025.6440@pbhya.PacBell.COM>, whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
|> Some people find riding on various forms of transit to be anywhere
|> from unpleasant to physically sickening to physically dangerous.

In addition to common sight of seeing people doing work on the train
I'm really starting to see a lot of laptop computer users.  One guy
I used to see a lot would get on and find a vacant "double" (a pair
of double seats facing each other).  On the opposite seat he would
set up his computer, put down a mouse pad and hook up his mouse, and
spread out some notes and manuals.  Then he would put on his walkman
and start working.

Sometimes, when I'm riding CalTrain, and I gaze around at all the
people working or grading papers or reading or sleeping or gazing
out one of the windows while muching on some food and having a
beer or just talking to friends or business associates (in person
or on their cellular phones) or just sleeping, I think about the
comments I sometimes read here that say things like "some people
find riding on various forms of transit to be anywhere from un-
pleasant to physically sickening to physically dangerous" and smile.

-- 

Adrian Brandt (415) 940-2379
UUCP: ...!ames!ntmtv!adrian
ARPA: ntmtv!adrian@ames.arc.nasa.gov
From: lazzaro@boom.CS.Berkeley.EDU (John Lazzaro)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Cars as "something better"
Date: 24 Dec 1992 00:47:52 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: boom.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec23.235009.29783@Veritas.COM> joshua@Veritas.COM (Joshua Levy) writes:
>About 3% of the people commute by mass transit, yet you want to 
>force it on everyone, or almost everyone.

260,00 rides a day on BART + 770,000 rides a day on SF MUNI; if your
number was correct in describing the Bay Area, then we have 17 Million
people living here. (yes I divided by two to turn "rides" to
"commutes", and yes I neglected Samtrans, SCCTA, GGT, and AC Transit).



Newsgroups: ba.transportation,sci.environment,ca.environment
From: jgacker@news.gsfc.nasa.gov (James G. Acker)
Subject: Re: Natural Gas?
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:02:19 GMT

John McCarthy (jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: I don't understand what this 575 Tg/yr is.  If it is spontaneous
: emission through the soil all over, it is extremely difficult
: to capture for human use.  Must we spread plastic over the whole
: world including the oceans and then separate out the CH4?
: Anyway 575 Tg is only 575 million tons.  The U.S. used to produce
: 500 million tons of petroleum, and in 1988 produced 288 million
: tons of natural gas.  It appears, therefore, that collecting the
: surface emissions from the entire world would not satisfy U.S.
: domestic needs.

: Avoiding mining is a fantasy.  Why do you think we should?
: --
: John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
: *
: He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
: 

	I don't think the issue is avoiding mining, but doing less of it.
Clearly, methane production from biomass is feasible (but tough --
attempts to do it with chicken waste have, on occasion, exploded.)

	I went back to check the figures, which were notably lacking in
notes.  Sorry -- this isn't my field.  For direct info, contact David
Schimel at UCAR or Inez Fung at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies.
I know *of* these people, but don't work with them directly.  From
what I recall of a lecture Fung gave, surface emission includes the
following:  biomass decomposition (leaf litter, vegetable matter --
notably in aquatic environments, NOTABLY in rice paddies, by
methanogenic bacteria);  bovine flatulence;  termite mounds;  biomass
burning;  natural gas leakage;  and others I can't recall.

	You're right, John -- you can't put plastic over the whole
surface of the Earth.  But think of all the quantity of "swamp gas"
that is going directly into the atmosphere.  Going to supplemental
biomass generators using methanogenic bacteria is feasible, and has
been done.  When I think of how many tons of leaves are buried in
landfills every year instead of being converted to a useful energy
source (and not taking up landfill space at the same time), I believe
we're missing a simple way of enhanced energy production.  In
addition to increased conservation (low-energy light bulbs, better
windows, etc.), developed nations could easily maintain current
energy needs without additional power-generating facilities of any
type.  That's where the push needs to be, and I'll burn methane to
get there, given the proper means.

	Jim Acker
	jgacker@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov


Newsgroups: ba.transportation
From: adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt)
Subject: Re: CalTrain Automatic Ticket Mailout no longer automatic
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 01:28:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.214223.11051@ads.com>, henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
|> am i the only one who's unhappy with the notice i received with my
|> january ticket?

I wish they would have at least enclosed a price list so those people
who need it could use it to figure out what they owe (most people can
do this w/o a price list though).


|> the notice says that all mailed-out tickets must be
|> paid in advance ...

Yes, the JPB and Amtrak have decided that to avoid some of the problems
they've been having with deadbeats, etc., they would require payment
in advance of them sending you your next ticket.

|> it effectively destroys the utility of the automatic ticket mailing
|> program.

Not really.  The first month you have to pay for both your current (Jan)
and the next month's (Feb) ticket along with the competed order form
supplied to you.  

When you receive February's ticket, it will be accompanied by an order
form for your next ticket (presumably March).  Under the old program
you'd have to use the supplied envelope to pay for the ticket you
just recieved.  Under the new program you use the envelope together
with the also supplied order form to order your new ticket.

The main difference is that JPB/Amtrak get the "float" on the money
instead of the rider.  But the number of times you have to write a
check or lick a stamp is exactly the same...


|> why did this happen, and how can it be fixed?

According to the spokesman at the November CAC meeting, the reason
for the change is to make sure they don't get burned and they have
the money in the bank *before* they give you a ticket.

I suppose you can protest by writing the JPB, but I suggest you give
it a try.  Also, they said they'd be looking into a way to allow an
option whereby you can have them automatically charge your ticket to
a credit and/or debit card...

-- 

Adrian Brandt (415) 940-2379
UUCP: ...!ames!ntmtv!adrian
ARPA: ntmtv!adrian@ames.arc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
From: creed@blowfish.taligent.com (Creed Erickson)
Subject: Re: Bicycles to commute within a work campus: Any successes ?
Followup-To: ba.transportation
Organization: Taligent, Inc.
Distribution: ba
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 07:06:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.201739.2476@netcom.com>, jaxtell@netcom.com (Joseph
Axtell) wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone work for or know of a company that encourages its workers to 
> get between the buildings of a spread out (1/2 mile) campus ?
> 

The Livermore facility of Sandia National Laboratory provides bikes for
getting around campus and I'm pretty sure the Lawrence Livermore National
Lab does too.

Taligent, Inc. (my employer) has considered purchasing a few bikes for
those who regularly travel between our three buildings. I haven't heard
anything recently on the idea, but I suspect the short distance between the
buildings (3-4 blocks) is not that onerous to us as a whole.

Somewhere else in this thread someone suggested maybe Apple does such a
thing. My company is surrounded by the Apple campus and I have friends who
work there but I've never seen or heard of Apple bikes for getting around
campus.

----
Creed Erickson <creed@blowfish.taligent.com>

Opinions expressed here are not neccessarily those of my employer, but I'm
working on it.
From: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Cars as "something better"
Date: 22 Dec 1992 02:17:12 GMT
Organization: lbl
Distribution: world
Reply-To: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.154

John Ciccarelli notes:
>| Joshua Levy writes:
>| >Mass transit: the technology of the late 1800s.

Yikes!  I'll bet that makes my feet 14th century technology.
I'd better cut them off and get a (more modern) wheelchair.  :)

Bruce Nordman
B_Nordman@lbl.gov
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Rail/MassTrans vs. Cars+IVHS
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:31:59 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.150411.7369@pbhye.PacBell.COM> mjvande@PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman) writes:
>-I am fairly new to this group, so I was wondering if the recent
>-discussion of "Cars as "something better"" had considered the
>-potential impact of IVHS technology? Did it all start there?
> 
>WHAT technology??? IVHS is a useless, last-ditch effort to save
>a basically moribund technology. It's like Star Wars (& has the
>same purpose -- to make money for the contractors, not to provide
>anything useful). A good example is the signs on the Bay Bridge
>warning you of a jam up ahead. So what are you supposed to do --
>turn around???

So you'd rather spend money making a marginal extension in a moribund
technology like heavy rail?

	--Hal
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
From: ladasky@netcom.com (John J. Ladasky II)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Alliance for a Paving Moratorium (Alert)
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:52:10 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM(Tim Irvin) writes:
[stuff deleted]
>Light rail north of downtown San Jose was a classic pork project.  It is very
>useful for me when going into downtown.  I always use it when I have an
>occasion to go downtown.  But north of St. James, a bus is just as fast and
>just as functional without the added cost of rail.
>
>
>Tim Irvin
>******************************************************************************


	Sorry, Tim, I have to disagree with you here.  Not everyone who wants
to go downtown lives south of the city center.  Furthermore, not everyone will
want to go downtown - some people will want to go to work.  This means rail
will be needed north of downtown, as well as south.  When the Tasman/Hostetter
line goes in, my roommate will have door-to-door service from home to his
Golden Triangle workiplace - a trip that currently requires a bus transfer.
This will be true for a lot of people in the Berryessa area.

-- 
== John J. Ladasky II ("ii") ========================= ladasky@netcom.COM ==
"Great composers do not borrow -	     "Talking about music is like
 they steal."  - John Ladasky	      ~ -     dancing about architecture."
(quote stolen from Stravinsky, who    o o     - Elvis Costello?  Laurie
 stole it from a statement made by     >        Anderson?  Frank Zappa?
 Pablo Picasso about painting, who    \_/    -------------------------------
 stole it from...)			     "Property is theft." - Groucho
============================================================================
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
From: mjvande@pbhye.PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman)
Subject: Re: Midnight 1.5-mile trip to Safeway
Reply-To: mjvande@PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 23:59:21 GMT

>>You should point out the fallacy to her. LOTS of muggings & carjackings
>>happen to drivers in parking lots.
>
>As for carjacking types of assaults, there is no way that having a car
>makes you MORE vunerable than not having a car.
 
Au contraire. Parking lots are a much better place to mug someone than
a transit stop, which is around people.

>As for parking lot muggings, you must be talking about BART parking lots.

Au contraire. Those are some of the smallest.
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
From: bjork@telebit.com (Steven Bjork)
Subject: Hal Heydt, was  Re: Rail/MassTrans vs. Cars+IVHS
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:13:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.173159.6546@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:

[turgid rantings deleted]

>Hal Heydt                    |    
>Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
>510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So Hal now espouses the Final Solution as used in Nazi Germany.
How many "undesirables" have you "relocated," Hal?

Shall we now Kill the Poor, since they clearly have failed
to meet your idea of society's values?

Or do you believe that every american should be given a car
simply because you can't imagine life without one?

--Steven
Xref: sparky ba.windows.x:139 comp.windows.x:20638
From: bilan@netcom.com (Steve Bilan)
Newsgroups: ba.windows.x,comp.windows.x
Subject: Looking for X server help
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:36:31 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Netcom


I am currently working on a modificiation to the X server and I've
run into a problem that I'm having difficulty coming up with a
solution for.  Therefore, I need to find someone to consult with
that knows the server/client protocol well, particularly in the
mechanism that the server uses for grabbing keyboards and pointers.

I would like to find someone that can provide a couple of hours
of consulting service to help me solve my problem; naturally I'd
be willing to make the appropriate monetary renumeration.  If you
can help and can spare a couple of hours, please give me a call
at (415) 940-1885.  The setup is in my apartment, so you would
have to come to Mountain View.




M, BATR..
..Steve Bilan
From: meggert@hto-d.usc.edu (Mark Eggert)
Newsgroups: ba.motss
Subject: Visitor to San Francisco from Germany
Date: 26 Dec 1992 09:44:08 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: hto-d.usc.edu

  This is posted for my friend Martin Keusen who will be visiting the Bay
Area from January 4 to the 7th. He is interested in moving to the Bay Area
from Germany in the near future. He's a computer programmer and would like
to make potential job contacts as well as social ones. Please send email to
me, Mark Eggert, if you would like to meet Martin and I'll tell you how to
reach him in SF.
  Yes, Martin is a big German leather daddy. :^O
  Martin thanks you for your help.

Mark Eggert
meggert@hto.usc.edu
From: coyote@smurf.sti.com (Ron Lussier)
Newsgroups: ba.motss
Subject: Re: Calling oneself "QUEER"
Date: 21 Dec 1992 10:33:33 -0800
Organization: National Man-Smurf Love Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: smurf.sti.com

In article <1gqfkvINNsmf@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <liur11INN4af@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> ba.motss writes:
>>
>> I am 32 and use 'Queer' all of the time.
>
>I'm 37 and *never* use the word to describe myself.

I'm 32 and I never use the word to describe myself either.  I generally like to
use 'gay' as an adjective, but I hate using it as a noun.  "He's a gay" implies
to me that he's not a person.

Ron
-- 
Ron 'Coyote' Lussier            /|               Software Transformation
coyote@sti.com                 / |      1601 Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd, #100
(408) 973-8081 x315           /__\                   Cupertino, CA 95014
From: rowanf@crc.ricoh.com (Rowan Fairgrove)
Newsgroups: ba.motss
Subject: WASC Discrimination Alert
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:47:35 GMT
Reply-To: rowanf@crc.ricoh.com (Rowan Fairgrove)
Organization: RICOH California Research Center

Thought folx might be interested.  Pardon if it has appeared
here before.  My machine has been down alot lately.

Rowan

----------Forwarded Message------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 11:08:00 PDT
From: FAW@ACUSD.BITNET
Subject: Discrimination
<LIBADMIN@UMAB.BITNET>

I ask you to write to the WASC to encourage them to add "Sexual
Orientation" to their Policy Statement of Diversity.  Following is a
clipping from the December 1992 GLAAD/LA REPORTS:

ACCREDITING DISCRIMINATION

     The Western College Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC)
Accrediting Commission for Senior Colleges and Universities has recently
released a draft of a proposed Policy Statement on Diversity which
explicitly excludes sexual minorities.  The statement reaffirms that any
institution to be accredited must "demonstrate its commitment to the
increasingly significant role played by diversity of ethnic, social and
economic background among its members by making positive efforts to foster
such diversity."  In further defining "diversity," the statement clarifies
that WASC standards "make no mention of sexual orientation.  Institutions
accredited by this commission follow varying policies based upon
institutional mission and religious conviction."  In plain English,
colleges and universities are invited to discriminate against, and ignore
the concerns of lesbian and gay students and staff, without their bigotry
affecting their accreditation.

The WASC is accepting comment on its proposed policy before making a final
draft in Feb.  Write the Commission and explain to them that its proposed
Policy Statement on Diversity explicitly recognizes homophobia and
discrimination against lesbian, gay and bisexual people.  Remind them that
any type of bigotry is unacceptable.  Write to:  Sister Magdelan Coughlin,
Chair, Senior Commission, P.O. Box 9990, Mills College, Oakland, CA 94613.

Thanks for your support.

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
+=+=
+    Franklin A. Weston            Tel: 619-260-4612      +
+    Senior Reference Librarian    FAW@ACUSD.BITNET       +
+    Legal Research Center         FAW@USDCSV.ACUSD.EDU   +
+    University of San Diego       FAX: 619-260-4616      +
+    5998 Alcala Park                                     +
+    San Diego, CA 92110-2492                             +
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
+=

Rowan Fairgrove

*****************************************
Current Book:  Odd Girls & Twilight Lovers
Current Music:  Youtu Yinde
Current Movie:  Daddy & the Muscle Academy
Current Holiday:  Yule
Current Drink:  Cocoa with Tuaca & Cognac
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: G/L/B Librarians
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ba
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 00:18:53 GMT

I'm passing along this announcement from the domestic partners amiling
list: 

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
GAY-LIBN@USCVM          The Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual Librarians Network
GAY-LIBN@VM.USC.EDU

GAY-LIBN is an electronic forum for discussions of interest to gay, lesbian,
and bisexual librarians (and friends).  Discussions on the list will often
be directly related to libraries or library associations.  Since the list
is devoted to the general concerns of LesBiGay librarians, however, some of
the exchanges on the list will be of a more general nature.

To join the list and receive mailings from GAY-LIBN:

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-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: zampicem@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Mike Zampiceni)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:11:50 GMT
Subject: Upcoming GLS Hikes - Keep Trim for '93!
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server