HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sinnott@tc4.fi.ameslab.gov (Susan B. Sinnott)
Subject: Re: neutering and spaying
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:54:10 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.061610.22028@lth.se> dag@control.lth.se (Dag Bruck) writes:
>>It seems that you have actually backed up our argument! :-)
>
>Oh, I don't mind that; I just wish you could do it yourselves (:-)

Well, I would say that we HAVE been trying, but you Sweeds just keep saying
"we don't believe you". :-)
 
>> Also, did you really mean to say ITCHING?
>
>Yep.

Now, this is strange.  Perhaps you could explain what parts of the dog's
body begins to itch and explain how the presence of a uterus pervents this.
I have owned many spayed females and never had a problem (one had skin
problems, but she had that starting when she was a puppy and through her
first heat, so the spaying couldn't have been responsible).

>>...  Also, if
>>the female guide dogs are not spayed and the blind person is walking
>>down the street with his guide dog who is in heat and a male dog comes
>>along, what will happen?
>
>I didn't ask about this explicitly, but I presume they train guide
>dogs to deal with this problem.  I did ask the guy training police
>dogs (which are mostly male, and intact) who said that you can
>mentally bind the dog to the owner so tightly that there is no
>problem.

Yes, I can see how a MALE can be taught not to chase females in heat, but...
how does a bitch "deal with" dogs that are after her when she is in heat?  
I'd really be interested to know!!!

>I also seem to recall that in wolf packs, only the alpha male and
>female mate, so there is apparently a natural pack structure to
>prevent unwanted litters.

Yes, but we all know that what is true for wolves is not true for dogs.
We all wish is were!!  That would make everything much simpler.
Dogs will mate with whatever female comes along.  I know that if I were
walking a female in heat through some places in the US and Britain (don't
know about Sweeden) that I would be surrounded by male dogs in minutes.
I would think that this would seriously hamper my dog's ability to guide
me down the street and affect my ability to walk.  Even if the bitch were
completely uninterested, this would NOT affect the males.  My guess is that
not many females are used period, or else Sweeden does not have any kind
of roaming dog problem.  In Britain and parts of the US, there are many 
dogs that are either strays, or dogs that are "let out to run" that are
available to make a problem.


Susan Sinnott
sinnott@tc4.fi.ameslab.gov


Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: pastor@prc.unisys.com (Jon Pastor)
Subject: Re: Dog kills another-is Sheba safe?
Organization: not much...
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:10:23 GMT

> A very good friend of mine has a Sharpei.  Tia is about 8 months old.
> 
> Tia was lying
> by the body of a male golden retriever.  She had obviously just killed
> the dog.  She was covered with his blood.

An 8-month-old Shar-pei puppy killed an adult male Golden?  Does anyone else 
find this a bit incredible?  The smallest male Golden I've ever seen is still
50-60 pounds, and they run up to 85-100 or more.  The last time I saw a
full-grown Shar-pei, it didn't look as though it could take on something that
large and strong.

Anyone know enough about either breed or both to be able to comment on this?
From: X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: why pekingese
Date: 6 Apr 92 13:58:58 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University

In article <21020131@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>
      reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdss on) writes:
>why do Pekingese dogs exist?
>
 
 
    Lunch for big dogs!    ;-)
 
 
Sorry, I just couldn't resist.....
 
      ----------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |  "Success is the realization of your
x005cb@tamvm1.tamu.edu  |       worthwhile dreams" ---  Dexter Yager
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |  "A goal is a dream being acted upon"
(409) 845-8454 (work)   |                          ---  Don Wilson
From: an12370@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (David C. Tuttle)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Heartworms
Date: 16 Apr 1992 22:55:17 GMT

drg@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu (David Gutierrez) writes:
< INRS@ricevm1.rice.edu (April O. Henry) writes:
<> 
<> I have a dog that has contracted heartworms.  He is 2-1/2 years old.
<> The vet thinks that he can undergo an arsenic based treatment program
<> successfully.  If anyone out there has any experience, suggestions or
<> general information please share it with me.
< 
< A co-worker recently had his dog successfully treated for heartworms
< at the Rice Village Animal Hospital (right behind Rice Stadium). They
< seem to have a pretty good track record for curing heartworms. I don't
< know what it cost him.  Your dog should recover completely, provided
< that he goes on heartworm preventative once he's cured.

Hello, co-worker here.  It cost us about $250 for the treatment
itself, not including tests before and after.  The success rate is
excellent -- they've never lost a dog (in several years) and they do
about one dog a week.  Ginger (3 yr old miniature dachshund) is doing
great three months later.
--
David C. Tuttle                               dct@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu
Software Systems Specialist               Department of Biomathematics
University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center         Houston, Texas
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: bbrown@b11.ingr.com (Bailey Brown)
Subject: Re: PS to Barnes/Dogs/Souls
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:29:01 GMT

kite@busadm1.cba.hawaii.edu (Ben Nagata) writes:

>PS to my last post:

>Listed on his 'not worthy of response list: those belonging to other 
>religions. (How do you feel about cat-lovers?)


I think what he meant was that he didn't want to get into a 
"God is" vs. "god isn't" argument with athiests or a 
"Jesus was and is" vs. "Jesus was and isn't" argument with
Jews, Muslims, and others.  I think he wanted to discuss
whether or not dogs have an eternal soul of the same type
that Christians are talking about when the talk about 
"saving souls".

Too bad there wasn't a way for him to create a temporary 
subgroup and say, "I'd like to discuss this further, and I'm
creating a temporary group rec.pets.dogs.religion for those
who care to join me."  That way, people who freak out and go
ballistic whenever anyone publically professes their religion
wouldn't get all offended and suffer mental anguish and emotional
distress.

------------
Bailey Brown                               "Above all else, confusion reigns."
Intergraph Corporation                                  
bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com                              Procol Harum

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: carey@m.cs.uiuc.edu (John Carey)
Subject: CPR
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:18:35 GMT

This subject came up in this newsgroup before, but nobody knew the
details.

At the vet school open house they had a CPR canine dummy--I will 
summarize the technique that I got a quick lesson on.

The dog should lay on its side--compression is perpendicular to the
spine, squeezing the sides of the rib cage (as opposed to human
CPR where you press the sternum towards the rib cage).
The dog is laying on its side, stand or sit on the spine side of the dog.
To find the proper place to push, bring the elbow of the dog back
as far as it will go--this is where you should push.  You lift the elbow
up (towards the spine), as you bring it back so it is about midway
between spine and sternum.  Then place your hands one on top of each
other and push down keeping your elbows straight (like human CPR).
They had lights for proper compression and for too-much compression--
proper was compressing about 25% maybe, you had to push pretty far
before the too-much light came on--meaning you might be cracking a rib.
They said it was better to err on the too-much side since ribs will 
heal.  The pace is 60 compressions per minute (in other words one per
second).  If by yourself, stop compressions every 60, and give 2 breaths.
If with a partner, stop compressions every 15 and give 1 breath.  The
breathing part (in other words, artificial respiration) is to cup your
hand around the dogs lips to seal them off, then blow into the nose.
You can put your fingers around the lips and sort of cup your hand
so you are breathing through your hand if you want to be more "sanitary".
You want to extend the nose out so the throat is stretched to avoid
the back of the tongue blocking the airway (like in human artificial
respiration)

Of course you want to check the dog`s mouth and airway for foreign objects
before starting any of this procedure.  Do a finger sweep of the back
of the mouth, and while giving breaths see if the rib cage expands.

So, pretty much like giving CPR to humans, except for pushing on the
side of the rib cage instead of the front.  

Hope you never have to use this info!
-- 
John Carey
University of Illinois
Dept. of Computer Science
carey@a.cs.uiuc.edu {uu-net,pur-ee,convex,...}!uiucdcs!carey
From: michele@dgbt.doc.ca (Michele Guillet)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Separation anxiety
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:53:59 GMT
Organization: The Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, Canada

In article <46@rcorsa.UUCP> clip@rcorsa.UUCP (The mailman) writes:
>
>i am not an expert, but dogs not only get bored or lonely, but they also
>get _MAD_. i have heard enough stories of dogs who were happy and behaved
>appropriately when left alone all day, until "one day" they suddenly
>became quite destructive.
>
>i don't know if there is any solution for this situation once a dog gets
>fed up [in my opinion], but working 8 hour days definitely seems
>to be one of the constraints of modern life that many of us cannot avoid.
>
>does anyone have experience with  changing a dog's behaviour once it
>gets into such a destructive rut?

The only idea I have is to alleviate the lonelyness and boredom by
getting a companion for the dog. May be another dog or a cat.
I am not sure if it would worked.

-- 
Michele Guillet 			The Communications Research Centre 
3701 Carling Avenue, Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA, K2H 8S2	tel:613-998-2384
Internet: michele@dgbt.doc.ca	
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: liza@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Liza Miller)
Subject: Re: White Lab ?
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:34:22 GMT

In article <oduPFhW00UhBI2bXx_@andrew.cmu.edu> lb2r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lorraine Blasik) writes:
>I was watching TV last night a commercial for "Wisk" laundry detergent
>was on and I swear what I saw was a white labrador.  Is there such an
>animal?  and if not what was this?  i have seen the yellow labs but this
>one was white ( well eggshell).  I have a chocolate now and we are
>planning to get him a pal when we move into the new house to help with
>the transition.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Lori

Labradors come in three colors:  Black, Yellow, and Chocolate.  However
the "yellow" color can vary from a deep Fox Red to an almost pure white.
Each of the extremes are uncommon, but certainly they are around and are
perfectly acceptable.  A yellow lab of any shade MUST have the dark black
pigment in its nose and pads and around its eyes to be correct however.


--
Liza Lee Miller         My dogs are labradorable!     liza@pangea.stanford.edu
Cibola Labradors            Field * Show * Fun                    415/326-5309
Mistypoint Kashmir--Kash                   Hopper--Cibola's Misty Mountain Hop
                 Campbellcroft Cibola Rosette -- Rosie
From: mct@interlink.com (- MD)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Dog bites dog
Date: 7 Apr 92 12:26:42 GMT
Organization: Interlink Computer Sciences, Fremont, California


Last night my Golden was bitten by a Jack Russell terrier.  It was
the first night of Basic Obedience, and on our way to the ring, we
passed this little dog.  Sunny (my dog) is very friendly and as we
passed by, she stretched her nose out to him.  He lunged and bit
her on her upper lip and HELD ON!  It seemed like an eternity
before he let go - probably 10 seconds - with Sunny yelping and
people screaming "Don't pull!".  Fortunately the damage was just on
the inside of her upper lip and a vet looked at her and said she'd
be fine but to take her to my vet the next day, just to be sure.
Sunny was really good about it all, even wagging her tail while
we were checking her lip.

I realize that it was probably half my fault.  Even though I had her
on a tight lead, she's only 9 months old and super friendly and
I should have been watching more carefully, but that dog was
FAST!

Now my sweet golden is afraid of other dogs.  I didn't want to make
too big a fuss over her once I knew she was okay, so we went to
class.  I figured that way she'd be around other dogs and see that
they don't ALL attack.  I was super easy on her and gave her lots
of praise when passing other dogs.  In fact, one of the exercises
was to weave in and out of the other "students" while they were
sitting in the heel position.  She did this okay and I gave her
LOTS of "good girl"s, but she's still pretty spooky.  After class, 
I asked some folks with gentle dogs to let her near their dogs 
in a calmer environment outside.

Has this happened to anyone else's dog?  Other than the obvious of
taking her around other dogs in a friendly situation, what is
the best way to get her over this?  Will she get over it?  If
so, how long will it take?  She's only afraid of dogs, people
she still really loves, especially children.  I can really use some
advice here - she's truly a sweet dog and I don't want this to
make her too timid.

Also, what can you do to get a biting dog to let go?  All anyone 
could do last night was to wait until he felt like letting go.  I've 
heard about throwing a bucket of water on them, but it all happened 
so fast and even the "dog people" said that Jack Russell terriers are known 
to snap and not let go.

Oh well.  I feel a little better telling everyone about this.  Maybe
my story will make folks be a little careful when they go to shows
and classes.

*****************
Monica Thomas
mct@interlink.com
Columbia, MD
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: pastor@prc.unisys.com (Jon Pastor)
Subject: Re: Suggestions on Child's pet
Organization: not much...
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:33:45 GMT

Unless your friend's 5-year-old is atypically large, strong, and responsible, 
getting him a dog is effectively getting herself a dog.  If our dog had to 
rely on our 7-year-old for her care and training, she'd 

	- mess all over the house all of the time
	- drink exclusively from toilets
	- eat garbage, or starve
	- sleep on the furniture
	- chew everything
	- jump on everybody even more than she does...

Expecting a dog to get trained by a human who's just begun his own training 
is ... let's just say overly optimistic.

If your friend wants a dog, let her not use the kid as an excuse; if she wants
it for the kid, she should recognize that for all intents and purposes it will
*still* be her dog.  My humble suggestion is that she not get a dog unless she
is prepared to care for it herself for many years to come.

BTW, I'm curious as to why she wants the dog to stay outside?  If she wants
the dog to be tightly integrated in to the family unit, it needs to spend
*lots* of time with its pack (i.e., the family), and I would guess that the
typical outdoor-living dog (Susan Butcher's dogs aside :-) doesn't get as
much attention as the typical indoor-living dog: indoor-living dogs can get
under foot just about constantly if they feel neglected, while outdoor-living
dogs can only howl...
From: walls@inland.com
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Dogs Don't Have Souls, Do They??
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:41:11 GMT
Organization: Inland Steel Company; East Chicago, IN

I seen this in the newspaper and I felt I had to share this with all of
you. Please forgive me, it is quite long, but after you read it you'll
understand.
               Dogs Don't Have Souls, Do They?
I remember bringing you home, you were so small ans cuddly with your tiny
paws and soft fur. You bounced around the room with eyes flashing and ears
flopping.  Once in a while, you'd let out a little yelp just to let me know
this was your territory.  Making a mess of the house and chewing on everything
in sight became a passion and when I scolded you, you just put your head down
and looked up at me with those innocent eyes as if to say: I'm sorry, but
I'll do it again as soon as you're not watching.
As you got older, you protected me by looking out the window and barking at
everyone who walked by.  When I had a tough day at work, you would be
waiting for me with your tail wagging just to say, "Welcome home, I missed 
you". You never had a bad day and I could LWys count on you to be there for
me.  When I sat down to read the paper and watch Tv, you would hop on my lap
looking for attention.  You never asked for anything more than to have me
pat your head so you could go to sleep with your head over my leg.
As you got older, you moved around slowly. Then one day, ols agw finally
took its toll, and you couldn't stand on those wobbly legs anymore.  I knelt
down and patted you lying there, trying to make you feel young again.
YOu just looked up at me as if to say you were old and tired and that after
all these years of not asking for anything, you had to ask me to do you one
last favor.  With tears in my eyes, I drove you one last time to the vet.
One last time you were lying next to me.  For some strange reason you were
able to stand up in the animal hospital- perhaps it was your sense of pride.
As the vet led you away, you stopped for an instant,turned your head and 
looked up at me as if to say:"Thank you for taking care of me". I thought,
"NO! ---thank YOU for taking care of me.


This article was found in today;s April 9,local newspaper. In Ann Lander's
column. I hope you enjoyed it, it is very moving. 
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: newton@convex.com (Vicki Newton)
Subject: bernese mountain doggies?
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 21:00:27 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

the bernese mountain dog looks like a beautiful breed to me.
i am generally a mutt-rescuing pound-cruiser but i have thought
that if i were to ever buy a pure bred, the bernese is one
i've fallen in love with (the looks of, anyway).  so, what do
y'all know about bernese mountain dogs?  who out there has one?
gimme details.

thanks!
veek
From: dag@control.lth.se (Dag Bruck)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: neutering and spaying
Summary: Follow-up on guide dogs
Date: 16 Apr 92 06:16:10 GMT
Organization: Department of Automatic Control, Lund, Sweden

In article <...> sinnott@tc4.fi.ameslab.gov (Susan B. Sinnott) writes:
>In article <...> dag@control.lth.se (Dag Bruck) writes:
>>About 10 years back they used to spay bitches, but stopped doing so
>>because of great problems with itching. In his opinion, spaying had
>>such effects that it could not be justified (except for male guide
>>dogs).  He also mentioned the obvious fact that a blind person has a
>>much harder time controlling a dog.
>>
>>Hans Nilsson pointed out that it is essential to neuter just before
>>the dog reaches sexual maturity, otherwise you won't get the desired
>>effect on temperament.
>
> Isn't this what the American posters in this debate have been saying
>all along?  If you neuter after sexual maturity, there is no change?

The important question is: do you get the alledged medical benefits
(e.g., less risk of cancer) with late spaying?  To me it would seem
natural that you either get both medical and temperament changes, or
none -- at least if it's related to changes in hormone levels.

I also believe Hans Nilsson perhaps oversimplified it a little; I can
imagine that the effect becomes MUCH smaller after sexual maturity,
but not zero, and then falls off even more by increasing age.

>It seems that you have actually backed up our argument! :-)

Oh, I don't mind that; I just wish you could do it yourselves (:-)

> Also, did you really mean to say ITCHING?

Yep.

>...  Also, if
>the female guide dogs are not spayed and the blind person is walking
>down the street with his guide dog who is in heat and a male dog comes
>along, what will happen?

I didn't ask about this explicitly, but I presume they train guide
dogs to deal with this problem.  I did ask the guy training police
dogs (which are mostly male, and intact) who said that you can
mentally bind the dog to the owner so tightly that there is no
problem.

I also seem to recall that in wolf packs, only the alpha male and
female mate, so there is apparently a natural pack structure to
prevent unwanted litters.

>...  Does the bitch just have lots of puppies?

Not that I have heard of, at least.


		-- Dag
From: feldman@cs.tulane.edu (Damon Feldman)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Dog bites dog
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:36:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.10807
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane University, New Orleans, LA

In <34672@ntrlink.interlink.com> mct@interlink.com (- MD) writes:

>Last night my Golden was bitten by a Jack Russell terrier.  It was
>the first night of Basic Obedience, and on our way to the ring, we
>passed this little dog.  Sunny (my dog) is very friendly and as we
>passed by, she stretched her nose out to him.  He lunged and bit
>her on her upper lip and HELD ON!  It seemed like an eternity

>Now my sweet golden is afraid of other dogs.  I didn't want to make

>Has this happened to anyone else's dog?  Other than the obvious of

Sure.  My dog has no tail and is black, so he's had a hard time now
and again.  Sometimes he would get spooky after being chased or nipped
at.  As he matured he got over it.  Now he seems to enjoy being
snapped at (older bitches seem to love to do this).  He dodges away
and runs around a bit.

I just let him be around other dogs and protected him when I could and
he relaxed in time.  Try to give your dog exposure to others without
letting them bite her.

Damon
-- 
Damon Feldman                  feldman@rex.cs.tulane.edu
Computer Science Dept.         Tulane University, New Orleans LA, USA
From: caroline@athertn.Atherton.COM (Caroline Shuttle)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: MY DOGS STINK!
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:41:13 GMT
Organization: Atherton Technology, Sunnyvale, CA

I have two lab/Shepard mixes both neutered males.  I give them baths once 
a month because they stink so much.  I also at the same time wash their
comforters.  Is it the food making them smell so bad?  Or is it because
they play so much in the back yard?  Is there anything I can give them to
make them smell less?  I use the coal tar type shampoo which seems to work
for a short while.

Caroline
caroline@atherton.com                        

]
From: thuyan@brahms.udel.edu (Thuy-An Hartman)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Dog kills another-is Sheba safe?
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:46:16 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware


A very good friend of mine has a Sharpei.  Tia is about 8 months old.
Ever since she has gotten Tia, Tia has come over to visit and played
with my 3 year old female husky, Sheba.

Yesterday, Tia got out of the house (I don't know how).  My friend
searched for her for hours.  Later that evening, she received a call
saying Tia was in an industrial park about 5 miles away.  Tia was lying
by the body of a male golden retriever.  She had obviously just killed
the dog.  She was covered with his blood.

Here is my question: Is it still safe to allow Sheba to play with her?

Tia was in heat so my friend thinks she was defending herself.

Tia did would not leave the body until her oner came.  My friends seems
to think it was an accident.  I am still concerned.

Thanks, Thuy-An