HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dunster@sdsu.edu (mark dunster)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: interest in car alarm group?
Date: 16 Nov 92 03:12:06 GMT
Organization: sdsu
NNTP-Posting-Host: mathfp13.sdsu.edu

In article <1992Nov12.084917.3596@spectrum.xerox.com>, hdavies@rx.xerox.com (Hugh J.E. Davies) writes:
> >
> >I too would be very interested. I own a VW Jetta ... enough said.
> >
> 
> "Enough said". Why?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Hugh.

In the U.S. VW Jettas are number two in the hit parade for car break-ins
and thefts (VW cars make up 7 of the top 10). This is because they are
notoriously easy to break-into/steal. (VW has made no attempt to rectify 
this, I wonder why???)  My Jetta has been broken into around eight times,
& stolen once. Hence my interest in a rec.autos.security. (I would prefer
the name rec.autos.castrate_auto_thieves_with_a_rusty_knife, but perhaps
that's a little too long).

Cheers, mark dunster (VW's: you either love 'em or hate 'em. I hate 'em).
From: schuyler@acf9.nyu.edu (Gabriel M. Schuyler)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Mag Stripe Writing
Summary: Where can I Get a machine to WRITE mag stripes
Keywords: Mag Stripe
Date: 23 Nov 92 01:43:50 GMT
Organization: New York University

This seems like the best shot as to which newsgroup.  Anyone know where I
can get a machine to write magnetic stripes?  I see a potential for money
making here . . . not fraudulent, I'd check ID and stuff before doing it.
But how many people do you know who have children or SOs who they'd like
to give access to their accounts?  Makes sense to me. . . .  And how about
student IDs.  Wouldn't it be nice to have a spare around in your exercise
clothes or something (well, it's an idea) so you don't have to keep juggling
it from wallet to shoelace. . . ?

So, where can I get one . . . anyone know?
--
Gabriel M. Schuyler       |  212-473-4986 (Voice)  |           \ /
55 Second Ave - Suite 3   |  917-879-0345 (Pager)  | Test Stand X
New York, NY  10003-8650  |  Call to arrange fax.  |           / \
From: 34II5MT@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (John Goggan)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: hm? (was Re: FORSALE)
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:55:31 GMT
 <1992Nov18.060001.26836@u.washington.edu>
Organization: Central Michigan University

You don't need to be anything special to order from Gall's, actually.  I
have heard from many people (and it is what _I_ did) that when Galls
asked them if they were affiliated with any police/locksmith/etc. they
(and I) simply said "no" and continued on.  Galls mentioned nothing to me
about having to be anyone special -- they simply asked if I _was_ and
continued on when I truthfully told them "no."  They didn't seem to care.
Maybe their sales people are just supposed to ask.  In any case, the
$20 ($25 with shipping) kit from Galls is quite nice and from what I've
heard (and experienced), they sell to anyone!

 - John...
   (34ii5mt@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Best locks
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 08:33:35 GMT

jd4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph Demasi) writes:
: 
: Also, I have a question concering master keys.  Are there separate shear
: lines for a master key and a normal key?  If not, could someone inform
: me as to how a master key works.  

Your conjecture is correct. Master keys have separate pins, so each
position in the lock has two or more shear lines. It makes the lock
less secure. However, by using mushroom, barrel or similar pins, the
lock will still be very difficult to pick.

Bill
From: tracker@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (William L Schongar)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Nabbing a car thief (was: car alarms)
Date: 19 Nov 1992 13:34:01 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

In article <1992Nov19.064557.925@u.washington.edu> basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji) writes:

>If you need to shoot, shoot to kill.  If you can't justify a killing
>(imminent mortal danger to yourself or your family), don't shoot the gun.
>If the perp runs away, consider yourself lucky: he won't likely come back
>and you won't get nailed for a "revenge" maiming or killing.

(Since I'm not wholly serious, I'll just put this thought here.. :)

Why bother with a real gun? Buy a nice semi-realistic (in the dark)
paintball gun, and some permanent marking dye ammo, like they use in
trail identification and such.

If the perp doesn't run, great. No deadly weapon charge, maybe
something about threat, but still..

If they do run, peg 'em in an exposed skin area. If you use red dye,
it'll really make them think for a minute. If they keep going well
hey, easy to identify for a few days...

-Tracker

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Master-key theory
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 09:25:30 GMT

entropy@gnu.ai.mit.edu (maximum entropy) writes:
: [...]
: >You'll find that many times in worn systems that the lock will open because 
: >you have actually "picked" it with the key. 
: 
: This actually has more to do with how bad a lock is, regardless of how
: it got that way (wear, lousy manufacture, excessive mastering).
: 
: I was annoyed that I couldn't get a lock for the glove compartment of
: my car with the same key as the ignition, after the compartment latch
: busted (my key ring already weighs more than I do).  I was also
: annoyed that the damn thing came in a sealed unit so I couldn't even
: take it apart and fix it to work with my ignition key without a lot of
: hassle.  I was much less annoyed when I found out it could be
: key-picked in 4 seconds with the ignition key.  This was a brand new
: lock, and probably not mastered (no point to it).

You can take the locks apart. It is just very difficult. The hardest
part is getting the cap back on - or swaging a replacement cap into
place. There is a tool that is designed to do so. It is also possible,
in some locks with pins, to file off the edge of the housing where the
springs are retained. This allows removal of the springs and pins
through the filed off side. After the lock is re-keyed with new pins
and the springs replaced - a new cover is epoxied to the casing. Some
locks actually have a cover over this part of the lock.

: I haven't tried opening the doors or starting the car with the glove
: compartment key.  I really don't want to know.

It is unlikely to work. Glove box locks have fewer pins than ignition
locks - the same is generally true for trunk locks.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman)
Subject: Who?!
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 01:09:21 GMT

Who started this newsgroup.
I need some special info from you.
Thankyou

-- 
From the coffee table of MR SHANNON SALTZMAN
"Is doggie heavan kitty hell?"
     Stephanie Phoenix(age 6)
This in everyway represents the authors opinion!!!(take it if ya want)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:16:39 GMT

tspindle@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (tom spindler) writes:
: >  Don't you be telling me what I can and cannot do.  I've often read that
: >locksmiths discourage people from learning to pick locks.  They want to
: >keep their trade skills secret, so they can charge people crazy amounts
: >of money, like $50, to open a lock.  That's wrong.  I find locksmithing to 
: 
: In "Locksmith Ledger", they encourage the promotion of the "locksmith
: mystique". For example, they tell you (the locksmith) to keep a lock
: around that's had the pins worn away by a non-burnished key duplicate,
: and to tell the customer how superior your copies are. It also tells
: that you should hide the key-duplicator from view, so the customers
: won't see how easy it is to dupe keys (my comment).

Such comments are "head in the sand" type things. Do the people who
write for the "Ledger" think that people are blind? Just about every
hardware store or discount store has a duplicating machine in plain
sight. They duplicate your key, while you wait - in about 30 seconds.
It is stupid to attempt to attempt to convince the customer that there
is any "mystique" in such an operation.

I don't understand the worn lock recommendation. I guess that you could
just show them that a lock with worn pins does not work too well. Of
course, this is misleading, since an unburnished key will not wear the
pins much faster than a key that has been burnished.

If the "Ledger" promotes such misleading practices, then I certainly would
refuse to subscribe. I was considering doing so. Maybe people who get the
rag will give their impressions about it.

A smart locksmith will not even attempt to pick a lock that might be
difficult, until he/she has looked for other methods of getting past
the lock.

Bill
Organization: Sophomore, Biology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:16:37 -0500 
From: Joseph Demasi <jd4o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Best locks

In practicing with a Best lock, I am encountering some difficulties.  Is
it possible to remove the core of the lock, the inside of the lock with
the pins and springs? How do locksmiths remove the core, and how can I? 
I would like to get a good look at the inside of a Best lock, especially
ht e one I am practicing with.

Also, I have a question concering master keys.  Are there separate shear
lines for a master key and a normal key?  If not, could someone inform
me as to how a master key works.  
Thanks.


--------------------------------------------------------------
It's 104 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack
of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.  Hit it.
						-The Blues Brothers
--------------------------------------------------------------
						Joseph DeMasi
						jd4o@andrew.cmu.edu

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Nabbing a car thief (was: car alarms)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:39:13 GMT

villalj@xanth.CS.ORST.EDU (John Villalovos) writes:
: >
: >I suggest you have a long talk with a few law enforcement officers, before
: >you decide that this is the best course of action.
: 
: I know this isn't in the news group topic....but I got this catalog of different
: ammunition that you can buy and they sell rubber bullets for shotguns.  That
: might work.  Don't know why they sent it to me since I don't even own a gun.

Doesn't matter. It is still assault - even with rubber bullets. There are
criminals who have sued people for using mace on them. They said that it
was "unjustified assault". Unfortunately, the civil juries agreed. As stated
before, such is the stupidity of our legal system. In most parts of the
country, you cannot protect your property. You must also be in deathly fear
of losing your life or a member of your family losing their lives - before
you are allowed to protect yourself.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: dbent@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Darrell A Bent)
Subject: Prospective Lock Buyer
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 02:05:59 GMT


  Anyone know where I can get a good lock?  It's got to be good and sturdy.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:43:26 GMT

miolnir@stein.u.washington.edu (Scot Thorstad) writes:
: In article <1992Nov18.194326.21134@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
: >
: >Possession of picks, contrary to what Chris said, is not a crime in most
: >areas of the country. I do believe that it is in the District of Columbia.
: >I don't think that any states have laws against possession - although some
: >cities may.
: >
: >Bill
: 
: I don't think possession is illegal, but I have heard that it's 
: illegal to carry picks on your person, is this correct?

Nope - except in some municipalities. 

Bill
From: bpn@po.CWRU.Edu (Brian Nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:55:57 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
NNTP-Posting-Host: b62102.student.cwru.edu

In article <92324.41296.J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>
>If you really want to learn about some of this stuff, write Paladin Press
>in Colorado.  They have a book on lock picking.  Get a subscription to
>Locksmith Ledger, join the Associated Locksmiths Association and attend
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anyone want to point me in the right direction?

"So when I die, the first thing I will see in heaven is a score list?"
1st Law of Hacking:  leaving is much more difficult than entering.
2nd Law of Hacking:  first in, first out.
3rd Law of Hacking:  the last blow counts most.
4th Law of Hacking:  you will find the exit at the entrance.

Brian Nelson
bpn@po.cwru.edu
Organization: Sophomore, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:04:25 -0500 
From: James Arthur Burtoft <jbbe+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths

>Has anyone else ever been told by a locksmith to "butt out" of his
>profession?  I'd be interested to hear about it.

    I used to work in a lumber store.  My dad taught me how to rekey a
lock when I was a little kid, so when the manager found out about my
latent skill (We were in the office one day and he was digging through a
closet one day looking for something, and pulled out a rekeying kit and
sat it down.  I picked it up and said "Wow, I haven't seen one of these
for a long time"  He said, "Yea, we have one, but noone knows how to use
one."  "Oh, I do, my dad taught me a couple of years ago."), I was
called upon often for rekeyings and making keys.
    Inspired by this, I went to the local library, and looked through a
book on locksmithing.  After figuring out how this picking thing works,
I went to the local locksmith's shop, and asked him if he had any
half-diamond picks and torsion wrenches (a good start).  He asked me
why, and I told him-I work in the lumber store.  Then he asked me how I
knew that I wanted a half-diamond pick, and I told him.  He then told me
that he couldn't sell them to me unless I was a bonded locksmith, and
then proceeded to tell me how horrible it was that teenage punks could
go into a library and get a book out on locksmithing (I assume he meant
the likes of me:), and what a horrible society this would lead to if
allowed to continue, and how he was going to ask the library to please
remove them.
   That's pretty close to "butt out".

                Cheerio
                              Jim
  
Love is not blind, just stupid--Me
Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither ten days,
nor twenty days;  But even a whole month, until it come out at your
nostrils...
                                                                        
                   Numbers 11:19-20

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: miolnir@stein.u.washington.edu (Scot Thorstad)
Subject: Re: Please stop
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 00:03:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.233625.23327@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dbent@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Darrell A Bent) writes:
>
>     I've tried to hold in my feelings, but I just can't take it any more.  My 
>father was killed by a flying lock!  Have you no shame?  Locks, locks, that's 
>all I hear from you monsters!  Just go away!

Terribly sorry, but why was he trying to blow up the Panama canal? :->
scot


Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 15:12:44 GMT

bpn@po.CWRU.Edu (Brian Nelson) writes in

>>If you really want to learn about some of this stuff, write Paladin Press
>>in Colorado.  They have a book on lock picking.  Get a subscription to
>>Locksmith Ledger, join the Associated Locksmiths Association and attend
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Anyone want to point me in the right direction?


Locksmith Ledger
1800 Oakton St.
Des Plaines, IL  60018

Safe and Vault Technology Association (SAVTA)
5083 Danville Road
Nicholasville, KY  40356

Associated Locksmiths of America
3003 Oak St.
Dallas, TX  75204
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: pbray@gluttony.reed.edu (Peter Bray)
Subject: hm? (was Re: FORSALE)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:43:57 GMT



>This is a joke, right?  $19.95 from GALLs, case and all...

what is GALLs?  where is it?  and how can i get them at this price?


thanks... 
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: keith@hydra.unm.edu ()
Subject: Car opening guides/kits preferences?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 17:31:29 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

A question for the old farts.. er.. for the more experienced locksmiths
from a relative newcommer.
There seem to be as many car opening guides as there are locksmiths
(actually one more than that, because LL and NL mags each have one out
but I don't, so total = number of locksmiths + 1)  <=== HUMOR, please
accept it in the spirit written)
Anyway, to the point.  I have the manuals/kit from High Tech in Florida,
and am satisfies (read, using it, I haven't failed to open any car
attempted, though sometimes I use a diffrent tool than they suggest).
But I see ads for the 'Z Tool' kit and the hundreds of manuals and can't
help but wonder if the grass is greener.  sooo...
what are the best/worst books and kits, and WHY.
I know this could get really messy really quickly, let's see what happens.
and for those of you who got this far, a tip, for what it's worth.
I got a 12" square piece of 1" thick plexiglass from a local plastic company
(they just went back and cut it, like at a glass store) for $14.  With my
scroll saw I have made several sets of different-sized, different shaped
wedges that work great. I still have half the plexiglass left, and have made
probably > $75 worth of custom wedges. for what it's worth...
-keith smith (keith@hydra.unm.edu) -no wasteful signature

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: zerucha@shell.portal.com (Thomas E Zerucha)
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Summary: Locksmithing legalities 
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:07:34 GMT

One problem with trying to find if lockpicks are illegal is that few people
seem to know for sure.  Our Bureau of Licensing and Regulation does not license
or regulate locksmiths.  Our local library had a list of city ordainances that
also said nothing about the subject.  I have to assume that in most places they
are not illegal.

I also remember reading somewhere that simply using a lockpick can be considered
breaking and entering if it is not your lock.


Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,rec.audio.car
From: "Gary A. Woodward" <p00140@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: interest in car alarm group?
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 23:29:52 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

I kind of started all this.  I have been in the business (security-but not
presently) for nearly ten years.  Not once has my personal alarm false 
triggered.  There are many very good alarms out there.  There are also 
very many people who call themselves installors who should be grinding 
out hamburger rather than cutting up cars.  If alarms were not effective 
I would have not put a system on some trucks that have several hundred 
thousand $$ of potential risk inside.  The leading cause offalse alarms 
are poorly adjusted or placed schock sensors, or poorly placed pin 
swithches in the trunk area or hood.  Please don't flame me but I have 
trained several hundred people to install mobile security(boats, motorcycles,
aircraft(being verrry carrefullll, even trailers not connected to power).
Yes, I've even been with Chapman-the hoodlock from hell company.

I have gotten in the order of 45 yeses and 5 nos for interest of a group.
I have posted. Alt.locksmithing and this rec.audio.car. there still exists
rec.motorcycles, rec.boat.alt.paranoids (opps! Alt.security etc. 
I am suggesting that it deal with mobile security, AND home/building 
security to broaden the base.  


As to the need for a new group I have listed in my computer nearly 3600
groups on the news net.  I feel that over 1/3 have no activity (my rash 
estimate-I'm sorry if I am wrong).  I will write Alt.Config which has 
the info to start a group. 


Good luck to all.  Yes its a matter of luck.

GW

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: entropy@gnu.ai.mit.edu (maximum entropy)
Subject: Re: Master-key theory
Organization: Not Proud Programmers
	<1992Nov09.051802.157684@zeus.calpoly.edu>
	<1992Nov11.054705.16261@wam.umd.edu>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:24:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.054705.16261@wam.umd.edu> psionic@wam.umd.edu (Sixth Plane of Hell) writes:

>On the subject of master key systems you can try one method to pick them
>called appropriately "key picking'
[...]
>You'll find that many times in worn systems that the lock will open because 
>you have actually "picked" it with the key. 

This actually has more to do with how bad a lock is, regardless of how
it got that way (wear, lousy manufacture, excessive mastering).

I was annoyed that I couldn't get a lock for the glove compartment of
my car with the same key as the ignition, after the compartment latch
busted (my key ring already weighs more than I do).  I was also
annoyed that the damn thing came in a sealed unit so I couldn't even
take it apart and fix it to work with my ignition key without a lot of
hassle.  I was much less annoyed when I found out it could be
key-picked in 4 seconds with the ignition key.  This was a brand new
lock, and probably not mastered (no point to it).

I haven't tried opening the doors or starting the car with the glove
compartment key.  I really don't want to know.

entropy
--
entropy@gnu.ai.mit.edu
entropy. . .it's not just a good idea, it's the second law.
Boycott AT&T, Lotus, Apple, Ashton-Tate and Xerox.  Join the League for
Programming Freedom!  Write to lpf@uunet.uu.net for more information.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: miolnir@stein.u.washington.edu (Scot Thorstad)
Subject: Re: Nabbing a car thief (was: car alarms)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:23:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.203913.19512@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>villalj@xanth.CS.ORST.EDU (John Villalovos) writes:
>: >
>: >I suggest you have a long talk with a few law enforcement officers, before
>: >you decide that this is the best course of action.
>: 
>: I know this isn't in the news group topic....but I got this catalog of different
>: ammunition that you can buy and they sell rubber bullets for shotguns.  That
>: might work.  Don't know why they sent it to me since I don't even own a gun.
>
>Doesn't matter. It is still assault - even with rubber bullets. There are
>criminals who have sued people for using mace on them. They said that it
>was "unjustified assault". Unfortunately, the civil juries agreed. As stated
>before, such is the stupidity of our legal system. In most parts of the
>country, you cannot protect your property. You must also be in deathly fear
>of losing your life or a member of your family losing their lives - before
>you are allowed to protect yourself.
>
>Bill

As my grandaddy once said, "Don't point a gun at something unless
you plan to shoot it. And don't shoot something unless you plan
to kill it."  If you shoot someone burgling your house and they
live they will often sue and win, kill them and charges are
almost never filed. Just be sure to shoot them in the front, it's
hard to argue self defense when the corpse has three holes in it's
back. If they're running away, say from your car, just tackle and
beat the shit outta them. It's hard for them to argue excessive
force when you just use your hands.
scot


Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing