HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Jack.Wiggins@bbs.rn.com (Jack Wiggins)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 12:39:16 EST
Organization: The Gator Conferencing System 219-289-3745 
Subject: Re: HELP NEEDED (Is poetry luxury?)
Distribution: world
Reply-To: Jack.Wiggins@bbs.rn.com (Jack Wiggins)
X-Posting-Software: UniBoard 1.10b S/N 145921

 >  > conrad@kryton.UUCP (Konstatin Kalikanzaros) writes:
 >  > > wachtel@canon.co.uk (Tom Wachtel) writes:
 >  > > > > conrad@kryton.UUCP (Konstatin Kalikanzaros) writes:
 >  > > > > wachtel@canon.co.uk (Tom Wachtel) writes:
 >  > > > > > casteley@phil.ruu.nl (Eric Casteleyn) writes:
 >  > > > > > >   I recently overheard someone say that poetry is a
 >  > > > > > > tuitively I disagreed, but I've had some trouble
 
When young men dance with eyes afire
round the everlasting flame
casting shadows on the sands
quoting till it seems the same
THEN they know they have the madness
THEN they stop
and look
and stare
THEN they hear the sounds of silence
cringing in the morning air
So they clap each other's shoulders
kick the sand across the flames
and they grow a little older
as they learn each other's names...
 
 
Hmmm...  Dunno WHAT that is supposed to mean but I had to write it down
before I forgot it again.
From: jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Looking for a poem...
Summary: Shakespeare sonnet
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 14:41:00 PST
Reply-To: jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us



Shakespeare -- sonnet 29 I think, maybe it's 27.

When in disgrace with fortune and men's eyes
I all alone beweep my outcast state,
And trouble deaf heaven with my bloodless cries,
And look upon myself and curse my fate,
Wishing me like to one more rich in hope,
Featur'd like him, like him with friends possess'd,
Desiring this man's art, and that man's scope,
With what I most enjoy contented least;
Yet in these thoughts myself almost despising
Haply I think on thee, -- and then my state
Like to the lark at break of day arising
From sullen earth, sings hymns at heaven's gate;
  For thy sweet love remember'd such wealth brings
  That then I scorn to change my state with kings.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

this what you're lookin' for?

       JJWebb
-- 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: bkv2673@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Miester aLster)
Subject: this is yvonne!
Reply-To: bkv2673@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:15:16 GMT


	-< this is yvonne >- 

	she has her little toys
	that she teases and enjoys
	she'll gleefully play
	she'll tease and gracefully walk away...

	she'll pout her lips teasing
	she'll play with her eyes as she pleases
	and she'll kill with her coy smile
	to make them dance to her pleasing...

	she'll raise a brow or two
	wanting to cuddle
	she'll treat 'em as pets
	like the neighbor's poodle...

	she's pretty, pleasant and nice
	eyebrows like inverted moons
	hair flowing like a comet's trail
	wanting to go places too soon...

	she likes gold
	she likes a diamond ring
	and she writes in spanish
	to make her sad and lonely soul sing... 

	she's yvonne, my friend
	she's nice and pleasing
	and has low tolerance
	i saw her drinking...

	she's yvonne, my friend
	she's nice and pleasing
	and she rhymes in spanish
	when she's writing...

	she's my friend, yvonne 
	and she'll play and act 
	and stop to be her nice self
	when they're all gone...

	she's yvonne, my friend
	and so i hope
	she's yvonne, my friend  
	just herself, true to the very end...
        
	- aL
	(11/17/92)


/* no flames please...i wrote this just now and i'm drunk.... */
From: abenoit@sumax.seattleu.edu (CHAVALEH)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: constructive criticism for Doug and Dinosauria
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:27:25 GMT
Organization: Seattle University

This is just another post to mark yet another time Philip Nikolayev has
ignored my arguments.

But, to further my purpose, I offer:

'Improving beginning poets' is no
>purpose of mine, because it is every poet's own responsibility
>to improve. Moreover, I suspect that most participants in this
>group, most probably including you, cannot be improved. As to
>my actual purpose, I have stated it to you quite clearly.

Actually, Niko, it is, if you really *are* for the propagation of good
poetry.  Certainly it is the responsibility of the poet to improve on
his/her own, but, if your purpose is to aid the production of good poetry,
you *are* I'm afraid ethically compelled to assist in any way possible.  
(For a few good suggestions, refer to my original post.)

>DQ
>>but Niko is offended by the audacity of
>> people who are not lit-feebs writing poetry.  The audacity is
>> compounded by the fact that the poetry is not perfect and does not
>> have the intent and end in mind that he assigns to poetry.
>
>Yes, this is quite true. Will you bother to articulate what
>exactly is wrong with the 'intent and end'?
>

Well, Niko, if your "intent and end" is what you say it is, we have no
objections whatsoever.  In fact, all we are for is a little more adherence
to it by means of more constructive methods.

>Don't you see how silly this is, Doug? Tell me something: what,
>in your view, is the difference between a beginning writer
>and a bad one? Which kind are you?

Further, I would like to ask Niko just how *he* distinguishes a beginning
poet from a bad poet.  Unless he claims to be God and set the standards
for "bad" and "beginning" and setting some type of time restraint ("You
have until 11-30-93 to become proficient before you are labelled a bad
poet."), it is quite a mystery to all involved how Niko discerns this. 
And I'm certain he realizes that to label a poet bad before he has fully
investigated the poet's abilities would be the mark of a bad deity, and
would defeat the possibility of discovering a magnificent poet.

Well, I'm off to mark the next instance of being ignored.

         CHAVALEH                | In you concept of the cosmos, 
 abenoit@sumax.seattleu.edu      | be aware of the stability
 (Parenthetical                  | that allows for individual chaos.
              conversationalist) |     _Emmanuel's Book_ VI.92
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: utaladri@cipres.cec.uchile.cl (TALADRIZ TRUAN UBALDO)
Subject: poems from Chile
Originator: utaladri@cipres
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:47:17 GMT
Organization: Centro de Computacion (CEC), Universidad de Chile



Ok. I'm not sure if i do this so well (i don't speek english so well).

I wrote this article, because i'm interested in exchange some poems.
I have a little library just big enough (Books in Spanish of course) of chilean
poets (Nicanor Parra, Zurita, Bruno Vidal, Gonzalo Contreras, Juan Luis
Martinez, and others). If you think that this is a good idea, send me
a mail. Enough.




 Ubaldo Javier Taladriz Truan
									Los cuatro puntos cardinales
									son tres
									el Norte y el Sur
									(ONE WAY)

 Pd. The first three lines wrotten by Vicente Huidobro, the last,
 and of course the poorest, I wrote. Vicente is walking around
 of his (i don't know how to say the place where bones response
 in some kind of peace, i hope that you understand).
From: nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Turtles in the Ganges (Stereotypical Western tastelessness)
Date: 24 Nov 92 06:09:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc10.NIKOLAY.92Nov23220953
Organization: The Kremlin Wall of Harvard
In-reply-to: SALIMM@MAINE.MAINE.EDU's message of 23 Nov 92 05:33:34 GMT

SALIMM@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:

> I agree with Sayan on his comments with regard to "Turtles in the
> Ganges."

> Tell me seriously, now, is that a poem? Or is it another attempt
> (quite like City of Joy) to expose momentarily and out of context
> the culture that is India? Perhaps there should be another poem
>entitled: Peacocks in July or some such...to counter  this.....

Please explain in what way Lapierre's 'The City of Joy' 'exposes
momentarily and out of context the culture that is India'. Also,
please explain what exactly you mean by 'the culture that is India',
and how you propose it should be 'exposed'.

As a curious alternative to that novel, consider the huge
hoarding which used to greet on on the way from Dum-Dum to
the city (perhaps still does): "WELCOME TO THE CITY OF JOY!"

> Salim Mohammed.

Philip Nikolayev
nikolay@husc.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Poem--Horserace
From: ralph@wixer.cactus.org (Ralph Cherubini)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 17:09:50 GMT
Organization: Real/Time Communications


                                Horserace

                Long horses stretch
                only in running as far as the eye can
                see
                as they round the home stretch
                they get longer
                lunging for the finish
                then they snap back into nothingness
                disappearing off the screen.



--
ralph@wixer.cactus.org
cactus.org!wixer!ralph
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 11:22:49 IST
From: <X67107@BARILVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Stimpee's Deep Thoughts I -Stimpee

Mostly disgusting.

                  -The Laugting One
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: steele@aem.umn.edu (Stephanie Steele)
Subject: Re: Friends of RAP
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:06:26 GMT

alk4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Alex L. Karan) writes:

>We have seen this happen before.
>Some voices hide only ears
>and hunger for their place in our scene.

>There is nothing we can say.
>It comes to this:
>It must be your blitheringly stupid Polack mind that licences you to use
>the noxious "boy" appellation, little fellow.  For all you know, I might
>be black, my Russian name notwithstanding.  Kindly curb your repugnant
>racist instincts, or this is going to get ugly quick.
> 
>which I beleive, in its hypocrisy and violence
>is what the net represents at its worst.
>I am going to research rules about networking,
>but I honestly think this sort of thing should NOT go on here.

>Lets give them nothing.
>If they don't care, it won't matter.
>If they do, let them fry.

i second this motion, all in favor?

steph.
>Ignore the idiots. Lest we become them.

>Alex

--

=======================================================================
			   Stephanie Steele
			steele@chip.aem.umn.edu
From: donz@uiunix.ui.org (Don Zirilli)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Stephanie's drink poem / Marek (Re: the Realm's Defender, absent)
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:10:55 GMT
Organization: UNIX International, Parsippany, NJ

For those of you who care,


Posthumous O'Toole is back.


In article <1992Nov17.212242.8503@news.acns.nwu.edu> marek@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marek Lugowski) writes:
>
>P.s.  Note that Don stuck to a consistent style, with a questionable
>      "shall" at the end.  A more precise poet would have written "will",
>      in American English.  "Shall" connotes English Majorism in advanced
>      stages -- esp. if you just found out you have nothing cold to
>      drink...  The correct exclamation is "fuck, what will I drink?",
>      followed by, "damn, I shall walk over to the Seven Eleven".
>

I'm not overly concerned with the verb.  If it really matters that much to
you, you can write 'will'.  I kind of like 'shall', which is not a
completely obsolete word like 'thee' or 'runneth'.  It's meaning is
slightly different than 'will'--'will' implies a sort of American
get-it-done pragamatism, whereas 'shall' is more of an effete hopelessness.
After all, the fellow is sitting right next to a river.  If he were
resourceful enough to say 'will', he'd also be resourceful enough to bend
over and lap up a drink.  But he's a moron.  Yes, the noble one, the effete
one, the one apart from the common man IS a moron.  (or dare I say:  "AM a
moron")



Yours,

Posthumous O'Toole, back from Avalon
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: rbn@sunvis.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Subject: Longing
Keywords: Haiku
Organization: UNISYS/Environmental Protection Agency
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:22:17 GMT



     Longing
     -------

Longing...Burning...Deep

Red fire skies, Reach into Flame

Leafless Finger Trees

--
Bob Boyd                 
rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov 
Unisys/EPA               
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: sp15@ellis.uchicago.edu (steven  paul)
Subject: Re: Errand of Mercy
Reply-To: sp15@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 01:35:57 GMT

In article <NIKOLAY.92Nov22190858@husc10.harvard.edu> nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev) writes:
>jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us writes:
>
>> Errand of Mercy --
>
>> Will someone who lives in the area please take RAP's new boy Philip
>> a drool cup and a bottle of valium?
>
>> So far, he has managed to exhibit a sociopathic personality, a
>> profound immaturity and the intellectual capacity of an obnoxious
>> Chihuahua ... It would appear Harvard is stealing his daddy's money,
>> or Philip is stealing their's. Either way, I'll wager he's not long
>> for the Ivy League, save as a butt for a few of the jokesters at
>> Yale.
>
>> Hark! I can hear one of them now:
>
>> "At Harvard, the boy nikolay had a great deal of drivel to say.  A
>> twit and a fool, he wrote his first rule, 'Stick my foot in my mouth
>> everyday!'"
>
>
>>                   JJWebb
>
>
>> "If you're peering into a cesspool, you must be looking for a ration
>> of shit."
>
>>                           --Beau Blue-- 
>
>So you are trying harder, eh? Good. But you still haven't looked up 
>'society', Webbster, and your quarnstrombobulated limericks scan poorly. 
>As to Yalie jokesters, they all committed suicide yesterday after 
>being stomped in the Game (14 : 0). But I must reward your sweat
>by giving you a lesson in versification. Check out this:
>
>	From the saga of clueless ole Webb's
>	Joyless fights for the rights of the plebs:
>	   As his favourite stunt
>	   He would stuff his raw cunt
>	With cobwebs and cabobs and cubebs.
>
>Philip Nikolayev
>nikolay@husc.harvard.edu


Greetings,

Personally, I find all of this juvenile petulance rather unbecoming for the 
both of you... Here at the College of the University of Chicago, we, for the
most part, pride ourselves on our outstanding tendencies of setting academi
do.... 
-- 
"HOMO SUM; HUMANI NIHIL A ME ALIENUM PUTO..."  Steven E. Paul <sp15@midway.uchicago.edu>  Send lots of E-mail!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: steele@aem.umn.edu (Stephanie Steele)
Subject: Re: the Realm's Defender, absent
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:20:34 GMT

jtrue@acpub.duke.edu (jtrue) writes:

(that dz's 'double phallic persona' is away for a week)

and p.o't. leaves us with this poem:



>Realm in the form of the following poem:

>A Moron in Springtime


>I crossed a bridge and found upriver
>another bridge.  I crossed the bridge
>and continued upriver.

>Across many bridges I found the head
>of this great river in the mountains
>fed by mountain snow.

>I could not really trust my memory.
>Spring could be the first spring ever
>here inside the mountains.

>I brought lunch in a paper baggy
>and on the banks of this great river
>I ate my lunch.

>I had fish inside my sandwich
>chopped up finely for a texture
>pleasing to my mouth.

>I had water in a thermos,
>but it's warm now from the sunlight.
>What shall I drink?


>Posthumous O'Toole
>11/16/92

drink the warm sunlight
from the water
from the cup
from your thermos
and after the last bit
of sun    
the last lingering bit
of light has passed
your lips, tilt 
your cup to the sky
and drink the glint
of blue and white
out of the water
out of the cup
from your thermos
and after the last bit  
of cloud has slid
down your throat
tilt your cup
to the river
until it runneth
over and then drink
with thine eyes.

sls.
--

=======================================================================
			   Stephanie Steele
			steele@chip.aem.umn.edu
From: josh@foglet.rutgers.edu (J Storrs Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Keep looking up
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:20:28 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


The milk is old,
                 the coffee cold;
a futile stir.

A thousand points of cream wink into view.
   A perfect, wheeling spiral forms


              a galaxy.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: marek@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marek Lugowski)
Subject: Re: "on fucked girls" /Marek
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:34:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.235901.10373@midway.uchicago.edu> alk4@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Were "Artifacts" neatly squeezed between my pages,
>it might not be so weak on its own.
>I'm actually interested in what is said,
>not just my poem...so I'll add this little
>thread:
>
>
>Romantic
>--------
>
>
>Surgery 
>by candle light;
>Open heart.
>
>Etherized by Bach
>the surgeon
>makes the kindest cut.
>
>A tailor standing by
>with neele threaded,
>ready.
>
>The patient awakes
>a glass of bubbly at hand;
>
>he says "do you?"
>she says "I do".
>
>Someone nearby 
>faints.
>
>
>
>Alex L. Karan
>
>
>
>This is a close as I come to writing about "fucked girls".
>
>Sometimes, what is looked at isn't as important as the way
>it is looked at.  Example< some readers have taken this
>as a flatfooted didactic statement on religion:
>
>`					 
>Looking
>-------
>
>
>A crack in the foundation of the Church
>on 57th across from the playground
>where the wind drags newspapers
>back and forth against a fence
>
>the basement full of rain,
>the Word sodden
>and more on the way
>unless they raise more than hope
>
>today, sunlight streams through
>stained glass onto stained walls
>and a melancholy song resounds,
>the gift of children;
>one of the last
>
>one could call it beautiful.
>
>
>
>
>Alex L. Karan
>
> 
>Perhaps I expect my titles to do too much work.
>Or my readers.
>
>Alex
>
>D
>D 
>D
>D
>C
>I

It was fun talking to you on talk, Alex.  There is nothing like a little
context. :) Let me just say for the benefit of the listening audience that
just as much as you believe the phrase "fucked girl" requires establishing
a context so that it may take its joyful place amongst "happy girl",
"contented girl", "stareyed girl", I believe that your pithy poems usually
need more words then what you dole out -- to make sense, or, the sense you
intend.

So, yes, you do expect too much from both your titles and your readers.  At
least in the case of titles, you can make them longer, and you can 
underline them all the way to the 77th avenue, on your rap-map. :)

Best luck,

				-- Marek
From: larryw@sun.lclark.edu (Larry Westdahl)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: recognition
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:32:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Nov16.013230.24309
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR



As always, comments would be appreciated
________________________________________


recognition


i wonder if you're sorry about the words you used
i hope for your sake that you are
the way you tossed them around so carelessly
as though you were tossing stones in to a pond

i wonder too if you're sorry about your love
the way you offered it so freely
as though you could take it back as easily
as though it were an old sweater you were lending

judgement is not my intent in saying these things
we're told after all that it's wrong to judge
i'm asking only for the smallest nod of recognition
so i can know, at least, that you were listening


- Lawrence

-- 

_____
larryw@lclark.edu | *L.Westdahl is a caring nurturer, a member of several
writer, musician  | twelve step programs, but not a licensed therapist.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: ralph@wixer.cactus.org (Ralph Cherubini)
Subject: Poem--Just around
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:14:53 GMT


                                  Perhaps just around

                Putting a line
                a boundary between
                me/you
                our work then is to erode it
                so we can move freely
                towards
                away
                perhaps just around.









-- 
ralph@wixer.cactus.org
cactus.org!wixer!ralph
From: steele@aem.umn.edu (Stephanie Steele)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Another version of "artifacts" / Natalie
Date: 22 Nov 92 17:27:35 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

alk4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Alex L. Karan) writes:

(some deleted...)

>Actually, I have this to say:
>We NEED, in our society, a description of sex that is vulgar
>and negative, because sex sometiems is.
>If Marek wishes to prove that sex is a positive vital force of living,
>fine, great.  But leave some negative worlds to describe it as well.

Alex, um, this is interesting, and i guess i like to look at it as
a 'horse/cart-chicken/egg' thing. it seems to me that we have a
preponderence of descriptions of sex in our society that are 'vulgar.'
i mean, too many, i mean it's difficult to utter a 'profane' word and
not have it refer to some part or act of genetalia- i mean are there
any profane words that *don't* mention genetalia or the anus in some
unflattering way? not many me thinks. and so when i think on this
subject, i wonder if maybe we didn't vent our anger and hate out on
'sex' and the sexual organs, if maybe we didn't view, as a society,
sex as some nasty, dirty, unspeakable thing, if maybe we had fewer
and fewer vulgar terminologies for sex and genetalia if maybe,
perhaps sex wouldn't become more beautiful, in the eyes of society,
and less violent and brutal....so, i guess i'm arguing for *fewer*
vulgar descriptions of sex, given we have so many as it is, and
in the hopes that maybe one day Demi Moore can have another kid and
pose naked on the front cover of Vanity Fair without being wrapped
in brown paper by the, uh, 'vulgar police,' and in the hopes that
i won't have to hear people talking about 'fucked girls' and cringe
every time its uttered, in the hopes that we can improve upon our
descriptive languages, improve upon the way we love each other and
talk about that love.

steph.

--

=======================================================================
			   Stephanie Steele
			steele@chip.aem.umn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: gardabr@unix1 (Gard Eggesbo Abrahamsen)
Subject: Re: Reality Close
Organization: MRIH, More og Romsdal Ingeniorhogskole
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 14:59:58 GMT

It was not a description of a relationship.

/gard   (gard.abrahamsen@samson.mrih.no)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: sheilah@wam.umd.edu (Danny-Boy)
Subject: sleep over was Re: Errand of Mercy
Summary: it's mercury. everyone's crazy.
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:46:22 GMT


Everyone should have a sleep over. Whose house? 
Don's? He has three cats. Nice mediators. (warning, Uptown and
Downtown have claws. not just claws. but, Bruce, she likes to
talk - she is insufferable polite however) Kate is very talented with 
whips, and futhermore.

Biology: You will wear flimsy clothings. bare your necks. everyone
in the same room with ridiculous locks.  Morning rituals. 
'languid sleeping yawns' (TM)

Much trust. This is only the bare assed shadow of the poem that
I want to steal from Joe Green about Old Communist Dictators
and Pajamas, (I mean, communist dictators and Old pajamas.)
-- 
I am always wrong. Don't believe me ever.
stark raving sane  sheilah@wam.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems