HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jpersons@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John C Persons)
Subject: Re: Mike Warnke
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:01:46 GMT

In article <27JUL199214221955@zeus.tamu.edu> nab4574@zeus.tamu.edu (Neil Burleson) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.173313.27523@cbnews.cb.att.com>, ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes...
>>In article <1992Jul27.011732.16988@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante) writes:
>> 
>>myself as well.  It just saddens me that there's something about
>>the Christian culture and, alas, something about myself that 
>>finds the freak show appealing.  If I deplore what Mike Warnke
>>allegedly did, and I do, then I had better reserve a little time
>>to deplore the side of me that seeks out the sensational and the
>>bizarre, and that creates a ready audience for those who want to
>>concoct sensational, bizarre lies.
>
>I agree. I think that the reason we flock to this is because we
>fail to see that inside of each of us, God has done an equal miracle
>in each one of our own lives. We fail to see that we are all equally
>sinners before God.
>

You took the words right out of my mouth, Neil.  I don't think we
(or at least I) recognize our own sinfulness.  We would never say
so, but we seem to think, "So God saved me.  Big deal, I wasn't 
that bad."  But if God saves some Satan worshipper or drug dealer,
now he's really DOING something.

Lord forgive me.
From: achow@cad093.scdt.intel.com (Abel Chow ~)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Christian Ripoffs
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:17:46 GMT
	<1992Jul18.015207.16457@aero.org> <1992Jul21.230935.741@pictel.com>
	<1992Jul22.134853.18465@rice.edu>
Organization: Intel Corporation, Santa Clara, CA
In-reply-to: mueller@owlnet.rice.edu's message of 22 Jul 92 13:48:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.134853.18465@rice.edu> mueller@owlnet.rice.edu (Ernest Conrad Mueller) writes:

   Speaking of the Police, I just heard a song on local Christian radio called
   "Let the wind blow" or something like that.  Its style was 100% Sting.
   Does anyone know any details about the song/artist?

The song is the title cut from the album "Let the Wind Blow" by the
Imperials.  It's pretty old--early 80's?--when Michael W. Smith played
keyboards for them (at least on that album).

   Ernest Mueller

Abel
--
=E=D---Abel Chow (achow@scdt.intel.com)
Intel - Santa Clara, CA  (408)76543-95
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: meo@pencom.com (Jaime Retief, IV)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Fallen Heroes
Date: 28 Jul 92 05:39:00 GMT
Organization: Roadkills-R-Us

Amy Kruse rethreads our needle...
-...We all have our heroes.....but they too fall sometimes. 
-Would anyone like to share?

At the risk of belaboring a point, I'll start with Mark Heard.
(No, I don't think I'm special because I know Mark - he's just
on my mind right now, ok?  I'm special for the same reason all
of you are special - because God loves me.)

Mark always took great pains to make it clear he was just
human, with the same sorts of hurts, fears, foibles, and
so forth.  I can see Mark ripping his clothes if that would
make the point, if anyone put him on a pedastel.  He never
forgot who he was, or who He is.  The same is true with
Pat Terry, and his old band (Randy & Sonny), who I also knew
back when nobody ever heard of them (and most of you still
haven't - I know...)  One of my favorite songs off the new
Jacob's Trouble album is "Just Like You".  If those guys can
only hold on to that!

Being out front like that is almost an open invitation for
the weak to put you on a pedastel (or take pot shots at
you).  It's too much for some people (eg, Jimmy Swaggart)
and they succumb.  Others can't deal with the pressure,
but walk away rather than succumb (eg, Leslie Phillips).
It's easy enough for me to say she should have fought it
harder and longer, but who am I to judge?  At least she
got out, rather than bring in a pedastel contractor!


Any parent who isn't totally flubbing it knows what it is
to be put on a pedastel.  I constantly remind my children
that I'm not perfect (I'm sure they'll remind *me* of that
in their teens.  8^)  Being put on a pedastel is one of the
scariest things I know of.

One of the guys who led me to a deeper walk in Christ at a
time when I was very weak has since turned his back on God,
and is indeed at least 7 times the heathen he was before.
Shortly before that happened, such a thing would have
devastated me.  As it was I hurt for him, and it reminded
me of my falls in the past, and that I could easily fall
again.  But that's about it.


One of the things we have to look for in ministers, especially
those in the limelight, but any of them, really, is whether
THEY are accountable, and to whom.  If it's "only to God",
beware!  Ultimately that's true, but so often it's just an
indicator of arrogance, or some more hidden sin.

And the same applies to us.

-Miles
From: u8705792@cc.uow.edu.au (Dennis Lam)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Michael W. Smith
Date: 30 Jul 92 07:07:00 GMT
Organization: University Of Wollongong

jblackwo@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (J P Blackwood) writes:


>I've heard Place in this World on multiple stations in multiple states and have
>never heard this "censorship"

>Besides it is not just that one line that is Christian oriented. Without these 
>references the song is uplifting and inspirational.

>Moreover, there is the line:

>"If there are millions down on their knees
>Amongst the many how can You still hear me"

>What is wrong with songs that don't share the scripture or a sermon. Certainly 
>Jesus had mundane conversations in his life. Many of those writing here have 
>some hyperpious criteria that they hold CCM singers up to. Where do they get 
>this?

I agree with you. I am getting sick and tired of people badmouthing CCM singers
who go mainstream. I suggest they read Matt. 7:1-6, Acts 5:29-41, and
Matt 16:24; before they start making any more hollow criticisms.

>What is wrong with a song about say.. marriage problems (ref many songs from 
>Heart in Motion" Lets just try to have a place where we can avoid demoralizing 
>or banal lyrics and music for a while.

There is something special I find about the song: "Place in this World".
There is a certain questioning of what direction our lives take. This song
does not give out instant answers, but it makes us think (or reflect) on
our purposes (or priorities) in our lives.I can imagine there are many people
who are hurting, or are alone that would be inspired by PITW.

						Dennis Lam

P.S if anyone cares to throw flames in my direction, I will throw the Sword
of the Holy Spirit straight through your heart. Think about it!
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: stehman@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jeff Stehman)
Subject: Cornerstone subscription address, please
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:17:31 GMT


I resubscribed to Cornerstone 4 months ago but haven't received anything
yet.  Now I've lost the address.  Could someone please email it to me?
Thanks.  (It seems I've missed out on some intense reading, too.  Humph.)


						Jeff Stehman
From: markway1112@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Glory and Praise Vol I and II
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:07:44 -0500
Summary: musical recordings
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Hello-

Are any of you familiar with the church songbooks "Glory and Praise,
Volumes 1 & 2"?  A long time ago, my parochial school had to
learn to sing some of the songs by listening to tapes of the music.
Now that my boyfriend and I are discussing wedding music, I would
love to have those recordings for the wedding, and I wondered
if anyone knew how to get ahold of these.  (whether through a
store or even the publisher!)  Thanks in advance!

-Kathy
markway1112@iscsvax.uni.edu

**Please e-mail responses to me; do not post! :)**

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Theresa Delilah Guay)
Subject: Mike Warnke
Summary: ZIP corrupted
Keywords: Warnke, ZIP
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 05:49:34 GMT

Hi; Rick from Cornerstone e-mailed me the warnke article, but the zip file 
is corrupted. I checked out "A call for papers" BBS and can't find the file.
Does anyone know where else one can find it?

Thanks...
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice)
Subject: Re: Is there anybody here that's not a Baptist?
Organization: University of North Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:30:37 GMT


To Steven Salaris:

	I sincerely apologize to you.  I had no intention to slam you,
	your beliefs, or your denomination.  I have been having some
	rough times trying to break out of a shell of legalism for
	some time.  But I made a BIG mistake here.  I am very sorry if I
	have offended you or anyone else.  I ask your forgiveness.

Keith Rice
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: rlt@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (R.L.Taylor KB2OOA)
Subject: Re: Mike Warnke
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:20:42 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.173313.27523@cbnews.cb.att.com> ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes:

>Perhaps one lesson we can learn from this is to search our hearts to 
>understand why we, as Christians, often pay particular attention to
>other Christians who have experienced dramatic conversions.  I don't know 
>why this is.  But I know that I do it too.  I deplore tabloid sensationalism.  
>I don't care whether Elvis' Martian love twins actually exist or not.  But 
>I'm the first to prick up my ears when a brother or sister comes along and 
>tells me, "I used to be an axe-wielding, drug-addicted, sex-crazed psychopath 
>who killed my mama but then I found Jesus and, praise God, now I'm a normal 
>accountant."  

Like everyone else, I'm terribly upset by this whole thing.  I've met
Mike, talked to him, and been blessed by his ministry.  Even if the
allegations are true, God has used him to minister to me, and that
won't change.  But, like Andy, I've been thinking a lot about "tabloid
Christianity".  Even in the parable of the Prodigal Son, it's the one
who lived the scandelous life, and repented of it, who gets the attention.
Like the elder brother, we need to remember that, while it is wonderously
true that God can (and does) forgive even the worst sinner who truly
repents, He also takes great joy in those who never "make the headlines".
While I would never say that he loves one sort more than the other, I
know that I would prefer to be one who never grieved him in the first
place.  To bring this back to the realm of Christian Music :-), is anyone
else reminded of an old song by Mickey and Becki Moore, entitled, I think,
_Testimony_?

   "Well, there's not much to tell whenever I'm compelled to share my
    testimony.
    No hair-raising tales of hell-raising days with the demons hanging
    all over me.
    Well, I never smoked dope, or swore at the Pope, or spent the night
    with a shady lady.
    I just came in bold when I was 6 years old and said 'Preacher, I want
    Him to save me.'
    ...and Jesus, I know that He saved me."


Sometimes I wonder who we (myself, especially, included) are really giving
glory to?  The saved, or the Saviour?  If we truly want to glorify the
Lord, we must learn to value His _keeping_ strength as well as His saving
grace.  For every reformed ax-murderer turned accountant, there are many,
many everyday people who are faithfully serving Him, day in and day out,
with out any acclaim from man.  That, to me, is the greater miracle.

----
Roberta Taylor KB2OOA  | You let me sing a song for you every now and then,
AT&T Bell Laboratories | But I'm asking you, when are you gonna listen?
Whippany, NJ           | You say I never sing about anyone but Jesus
rlt@gummo.att.com  <>< | Well, that's because Jesus is my song. ---Anne Herring

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt)
Subject: Re: Madeleine L'Engle question
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:25:23 GMT

Granted that this isn't music per se, but it is art...

In article <STUCKI.92Jul29125732@retina.cis.ohio-state.edu> stucki@retina.cis.ohio-state.edu (David J Stucki) writes:
[...]
>   Does anyone else here know and like these folks?  Or have any
>   similar recommendations for Christian fiction and/or poetry?
>   Don't tell me about Lewis, Tolkien, Williams, Peretti, Lawhead, et 
>   al.  That's okay, but I'm looking for something besides tracts
>   disguised as fantasy novels (no, that doesn't really apply to
>   C.S., J.R.R., and Charles, but Peretti and Lawhead bore me to
>   tears).  Just to help you out some, the contemporary writers that
>   I esteem most highly are Dillard, O'Connor, John Updike, Gabriel
>   Garcia Marquez, Milan Kundera, Thomas Pynchon, and Graham Green.  
>   Anybody willing to recommend something else along those lines?
>
>I really like (both fiction and non-fiction, like L'Engle) Frederick
>Buechner. I would start with The Book of Bebb (fiction) or Peculiar
>Treasures (devotional). You could also try Walker Percy, Chaim Potok,
>and Stephen R. Donaldson. Potok is Jewish but his novels have
>conservative religious overtones that made me think of him in this

Re: Donaldson - anyone have any idea of his own spiritual stance? I
really enjoy his writing. I think he has developed probably the best
voice in fantasy today, much, much more substantial than say, Asimov
or Zelazny. A number of Christian images come forward in Donaldson's
stories, but the message is often unclear. I certainly recommend him
as a brilliant writer and as good source for material to chew over,
but I wouldn't suggest that any analogy of the Gospel will fall out
of such reading.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our dried voices, when                                                    
Whispered together                                                        
Are quiet and meaningless                                                 
  --T.S. Eliot, The Hollow Men                                            
..............................................................................
s.w. marlatt, <><  &  *(:-)
University of Colorado:                   marlatt@spot.Colorado.edu  492-3939
National Center for Atmospheric Research: marlatt@neit.cgd.ucar.edu  497-1669
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: daphne@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Amy Kruse)
Subject: Re: Michael W. Smith
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:08:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.154120.28035@wdl.loral.com> trw@spl1.spl.loral.com (Tim R Witort) writes:
>In article <1992Jul31.140311.22740@rice.edu>, mueller@owlnet.rice.edu (Ernest Conrad Mueller) writes:
>|> >P.S if anyone cares to throw flames in my direction, I will throw the Sword
>|> >of the Holy Spirit straight through your heart. Think about it!
>|> 
>|> This makes me think : Time for a humor break!
>|> 
>|> Christian phrase                           Real World Translation
>|> ----------------                           ----------------------
>|> "sword of the Holy Spirit" above           a flame
>|> fellowship (We're fellowshipping)          hanging with the homies
>|> sharing (Share X with us)                  shooting the BS 
>|> a blessing (That concert was a blessing)   way cool
>|> "I will pray for you"                      "Boy you're a heretic"
>|> 
>|> I'm sure there are many more - get your submissions in soon
>|> for the "most ridiculous Christianized phrase" contest!
>
  How about  "Well, I planted a seed"  = "Boy, that evangelistic event was a
total flop"  They use that one on us at school all the time.  My friends and I
decided that if we were going to plant seeds, we were going to take the pots
with us.  They grow much better that way.  Amy
From: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Phil Collins- talking to Jesus
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 21:46:59 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB

superc@hurricane.ksu.ksu.edu (Shawn E Chase) writes:

> 
>  I heard this song on the radio the other day. Then, two nights ago, I was
> watching tv, and I flipped across sin-tv (oops, I mean MTV) and I saw the vid
> Needless to say, I find the man's taste rather foul. I only saw about the las
> or 40 seconds of the video, but, from what I gathered, he is poking at
> evangelists, etc...Am I getting his point correctly, or is there more to it. 
> haven't heard the song in entirety or seen the video in entirety. Could someo
> who has heard/seen please shed some light on this for me?????
 
I think Phil Collins is making fun of those corrupt TV evangelists, like 
the Bakers, etc.  I can understand the video, and even though it's not 
right, I too am sick of some of these evangelists.  I'm sorry but most 
Christian TV turns me off.  Some of it is too candy-like.  Benny Hinn and 
some prophecies shows are my favs though!  
 
Titan

;--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Subject: Re: Hey, leave Debbie alone!
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:01:13 GMT

I gained a whole new respect for Debbie when I saw an interview with her
about her work on Broadway. She said that it was nice to not be the star,
she was there to learn and improve her music. I liked that, it shows maturity.

Topher
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    |"What's behind the words?
 caw@gtech.com                           | Images they know will please us.
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | I'll take what's real, bring up
 The opions expressed are mine alone     |   the lights." -- Queensryche
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: daphne@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Amy Kruse)
Subject: Re: mike wankre: what about our knowledge of evil beings?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:28:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.144601.20252@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante) writes:
>
>Another topic, not yet discussed. Someone earlier made a reference to
>Mike's work being a key source of knowledge about the occult, satanic
>worship, and so forth. If the Cornerstone report is right, and he is
>basically a fraud, what does that imply about "our" knowledge of 
>satanism?
>john r la plante       

Now we are getting some where.  I have been thinking a lot about this since
the article, and even before that.  Satan is a trickster and I think one of
the greatest tricks he has played on us is that he is some kind of
cult/ritual/man with horns  that we have seen in the news and in heavy metal
bashing.  Now I am not saying that Satan doesn't have a hold on people in a
cult or ritualistic way, but I think he has duped us into thinking those are
the major ways.  And if we stay away from those things he doesn't really have a
hold on our lives.  I maintain that he is more a part of our culture and the
things that we accept as normal.  We see in John 17 Jesus is praying for the
disciples before he is arrested...in verse 15 he says  "My prayer is not that
you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one."
We need to strengthen ourselves with God's Word and see where the evil one is
in our lives and in our society.  So many times we focus on what others are
doing wrong and how they can free themselves from Satan 's grip.  But how
many more times do we leave the back door open and let Satan infiltrate our
own thought and actions.  Satan can even try to mess up our prayer lives,
making us feel that we did not confess a sin thoroughly enough, or that we
need to do something to prove that we are forgiven.  Obviously we have the
tools to defeat Satan, he cannot stand up to the Blood of Christ.  Let's make
sure we are clothed in His Blood before we attempt to defeat him.  Jesus
prayed we would resist.  Let us resist.  Amy 


Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
Subject: john updike -- religious preference
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: oh
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:47:38 GMT


i've noticed this several mentions about john updike in this thread about
christian literature [uhm, yes, in r.m.c; it's interesting anyway].

but i've been unable to determine opinions as to whether he identifies himself
as a christian, his basic theology, and opinions as to whether he is 
an evangelical or other form of christian.

 ----- Close circuit to ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com -------

 I've appreciated your comments. i've tried to send you a few letters, but
 they always get returned as unknown user, or something like that.
 could you send me a good address for you?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University
jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  political analysis done while you wait
From: smothers@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Mike Warnke
Date: 25 Jul 92 01:33:54 GMT
Organization: Northern Arizona University

Hey all:

    I downloaded the article from the Michigan source. (See post from
editor of Cornerstone.) It is some serious stuff. I would advise all to
(preferably) order the magazine or download the article. It raises some
serious questions conserning Warnke's ministry as well as the foundation
of CCM.
    Had these allegations come from another source, I would not trust them.
However, Cornerstone is highly respected, and perhaps more importantly:
the article had many footnotes in which the reader could verify the
accusations. It is a work that was obviously carefully researched.

    Lots of prayers are needed. I see the hounds of media citing Warnke
as another reason that Christians are pathetic followers of shallow leaders.

----------
Mark Smothers
(602) 773-9614
smothers@nauvax.ucc.edu
Accounting stud
Northern Arizona University

warning: I WILL post all abusive e-mail.
From: meo@pencom.com (Jaime Retief, IV)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Indigo Girls
Date: 28 Jul 92 05:03:19 GMT
Organization: Roadkills-R-Us

Emily's father is a Doctor of Theology at Emory
University [1].   While Emory was one of the
parents of the God Is Dead movement, her dad at
least is not off in that direction.  She's
definitely been exposed to the Gospel.  Beyond
that, my guess is that if they are Christians,
they're awfully weak, and certainly not in any
strong fellowship right now.

I've heard ***rumors*** that they are gay, but
Atlanta wants to think everybody there is gay,
so I don't know.  I agree some of their music
certainly indicates some knowledge and hunger
for spiritual things.

-Miles