HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Espen.H.Koht@dartmouth.edu (Espen H. Koht)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic 
 freedom
Date: 15 Apr 92 04:40:12 GMT
 <1992Apr4.034154.4741@midway.uchicago.edu> <10885@chalmers.se> 
 <1992Apr10.034910.17728@midway.uchicago.edu> 
 <1992Apr10.151322.13422@eua.ericsson.se> 
 <1992Apr10.205931.21058@athena.mit.edu>  <1992Apr13.071623.18372@eua.r
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Apr13.071623.18372@eua.ericsson.se>
euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman) writes:

> >The basic idea behind taxes in a social democracy is that those who earn the
> >most pay the most, thus supporting those less fortunate.
> 
> Let's look at three cases:
> 
> 1. I'm poor. I can't afford e.g. school for my children. The government
> 	pays it for me.

    You don't have to be 'poor' to not afford paying $20,000 a year per
child to go to school.

> 2. I'm not poor, I can (just) afford school for my children. The government
> 	takes this money and pays it for me. Since the government has
> 	taken my money, I can't afford sending my children to a private
> 	school. The government wouldn't pay this for me. I have no
> 	freedom to choose which school my children should go to. I say
> 	this freedom is a *democratic freedom* q.e.d.        

    I think it could be argued that freedom could include a certain
amount of freedom form economic constraints as well as political
constraints.  Anyway this example ignores such things as economies of
scale, and that a substantial number of people will have enough money
*at the right time*.  How many people do you really thin fall into
which of these catagories?

> 3. I'm rich. The government takes money from me to pay poor peoples'
> 	schools (case 1). I don't mind much. The government also takes
> 	money to pay for my childrens' places in public school. I send
> 	my children to a private school, and pay for it myself. I have
> 	payed for my childrens' school *twice* q.e.d.

   If you are willing to do that I won't stop you.
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: You have to be rich to get the Authorities to listen.
Date: 6 Apr 92 12:36:06 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology


  More fun things from the Taxation Assessment Authorities and other 
Authorities:

  [And no, this isn't a April-fools-day joke, even though I wish it were]

  The Swedish Telecommunication Authorities (Televerket) are organized as an
Aff{rsdivande Verk (Commercial Department) which means that they have the 
monopoly position of a department and the avarice of a commercial enterprise:)

  About half a year ago they started something called the 071-numbers which 
are commercial services available from third parties on certain numbers with
a 071 prefix. The type of services seems to be mostly games and heavy 
breathing judging from the ads in the papers and calling the numbers will
cost you several SKr per minute. The profit is split between Televerket and 
the third party.

  I'm pretty sure that there is something similar in the US.
  
  These numbers have been a commercial success for Televerket, so they are
planning to expand it. What they are trying to do is to get hospitals, and
various other authorities and departments to turn their public lines into 
071-numbers. The advantages are that they will make a hefty profit from
everybody that wants to ask questions about something, and that the number
of callers that want answers will decrease.

  It seems as if the high and mighty civil servants has grown tired of 
answering questions from the common rabble and wants to charge them for the
privilige.

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
Xref: sparky soc.culture.nordic:2589 soc.culture.europe:3493 eunet.politics:565
From: abraham@iesd.auc.dk (Per Abrahamsen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics
Subject: Re: EC KILLS CHILDREN! (Was: Increasing amount of people against EU in Denmark)
Date: 4 Apr 92 09:47:20 GMT
	<1992Mar24.114118.5833@nntp.hut.fi>
	<1992Mar26.102841.7717@pcsbst.pcs.com>
	<ABRAHAM.92Mar27214038@loke.iesd.auc.dk>
	<1992Mar30.070157.14544@mentor.dk> <1992Apr1.111401.18664@odin.diku.dk>
	<ABRAHAM.92Apr2063831@loke.
Organization: HUGIN Expert A/S


>>>>> On 3 Apr 92 14:45:41, hans@iesd.auc.dk (Hans Huttel) said:

Hans> I assume that you are referring to the social charter, which the
Hans> British Tories successfully opposed for exactly this reason (they
Hans> think it amounts to pure socialism...).

I was refering to the lack of a social charter in the present EC.  

Hans> But the social charter only
Hans> puts forward a set of minimum standards which our country still
Hans> manages to exceed.

The keyword is "still".

Hans> I doubt that we as Danes will benefit from the
Hans> social charter. Rather it might make it more difficult for Danish
Hans> unions to negotiate better deals because of the precedence that the
Hans> charter is setting.

Do you really believe the Danish unions will be able to get a
significantly better deal than the German workers, when there is no
longer any economic border between Germany and Denmark?

All the Nordic countries has agreed on the open borders.  Denmark with
a vote in 1986, the others without a vote.
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: question for Macintosh users in Sweden
Keywords: macintosh
Date: 12 Apr 92 11:34:45 GMT
Reply-To: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Organization: SICS, Kista (Stockholm), Sweden

In article <Apr.11.21.42.28.1992.21231@central.rutgers.edu>, friedan@central (Daniel Friedan) writes:
>I am planning to buy the U.S. versions of
>    a Macintosh Classic II (4/80) and
>    a U.S. model Stylewriter.
>
>    2.  Will it be expensive to buy, in Goteborg, Sweden,
>            - an A4 paper tray for the Stylewriter,

Sorry, I forgot to answer this. You don't need a separate A4 paper
tray. The Stylewriter comes with an adjustable paper tray.
-- 
Lars-Henrik Eriksson				Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science		Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263					Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN
From: dat91uni@ludat.lth.se (Urban Nilsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Iranian embassy torched
Date: 7 Apr 92 07:02:47 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Lund University, Sweden

In article <10823@chalmers.se> d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes:
>
>  Yesterday a large number (70+) of demonstrators broke through the fence 
>of the Iranian embassy in Stockholm, evaded the two unarmed security-
>company guards and torched six cars, the embassy and a outbuilding. Four
>persons were hurt.
>  Twentyfour persons have been arrested under suspicion of arson, vandalism 
>and violent riot.
>
>  The mujahedin have claimed responsibility for the attack and said that
>is was a retaliation for an Iranian attack against mujahedin camps in Iraq.
>
>-bertil-

I just want to say that the Mujahedin & the Iranian goverment should keep their
fighting in Iran, here in Sweden we dont keep up this kind of silly behaivour.

We had our tribe fighting back at the time of the Vikings and have stoped with
now at don't want to have it back.

/ UNI
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker)
Subject: Re: Hard times in Norway?
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:35:41 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.151609.12106@crash.cts.com> rcf@pnet01.cts.com (Bob Forsythe) writes:
>
>baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr12.151608.16612@crash.cts.com> rcf@pnet01.cts.com (Bob Forsythe) writes:
>>>     What the U.S. does is decide that anyone who isn't employed by the time
>>>their unemployment insurance runs out doesn't want to be employed, and
>>>therefore takes them off the unemployment rolls.  Makes for a lovely little
>>>statistical lie.
>>
>>This is completely false.  The U.S. government surveys a random group of
>>people asking them (1) whether they worked last week, and (2) whether they
>>looked for work last week.  People who answer "no" and "yes" respectively
>>are considered to be unemployed.  People who answer "no" to both questions
>>are not considered to be part of the labor force.  While this definition
>>might differ from that of other countries, the statistic is not intended to
>>be used for international comparisons, and anyway if you want to compare
>>different countries, per capita GNP or GDP (presumbably normalized by
>>purchasing power) is a much better statistic (if I can get a 15% higher
>>salary in return for being unemployed 6% of the time, that's fine with me).
>>And this has little to do with unemployment insurance; e.g., a new person
>>looking for his/her first job is considered to be unemployed until finding
>>this job, but this individual will certainly not receive any unemployment
>>compensation.
>
>
>     Sounds about the same to me.  Someone is unemployed whether they looked
>for a job or not.  I wasn't speaking to international comparisons, just to the
>manipulation of stats WRT American unemployment.  There are a lot of reasons
>someone might not look for a job in a specific week.  To write them out of the
>labor force hardly addresses the percentage of unemployed in this country.
>
>-Bob
>rcf@pnet01.cts.com

If it really sounded the same to you, you should have said it right the
first time instead of distorting it to make your point.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.nordic:2882 soc.culture.europe:3762 eunet.politics:632
From: abraham@iesd.auc.dk (Per Abrahamsen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of EU (was Re: Increasing EU opposition in Denmark)
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:33:00 GMT
	<1992Apr3.204709.4897@nntp.hut.fi> <gph+4P@engin.umich.edu>
	<1992Apr5.131604.8251@nntp.hut.fi>
	<ABRAHAM.92Apr7181827@loke.iesd.auc.dk>
	<1992Apr9.100138.13502@nntp.hut.fi>
Organization: HUGIN Expert A/S


In article <ABRAHAM.92Apr7181827@loke.iesd.auc.dk>, abraham@iesd (Per
Abrahamsen) writes: 

Per> Anyway, the arguments are all about the ESS, not the EU.

>>>>> On 9 Apr 92 10:01:38 GMT, jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) said:

Jyrki> Hmm.  OK, anyone got ideas on what are the pro's and con's of EC
Jyrki> changing into EU?  What will EU actually be like, anyway?

Nobody knows.  All the claims are based on more or less (mostly less)
educated guesses.  Thats the problem with all the EU national votes.
We do not know what we get if we vote yes.  The situation is more
clear after a no vote: We will be plain ESS members (a much better
defined entity) giving us most of the economic benefits/drawbacks of
EU, but few of the political benefits/drawbacks.

I see the two important parts of EU as:

- Control of the ESS.  The EU is the organization able to stop
national protectionism and social dumping.  Nobody knows if the EU
actually will do this.

- Accepting membership of a possible coming European superpower.
The EU may or may not evolve into a superpower, with the other ESS members as
satellite nations.
From: hans@iesd.auc.dk (Hans Huttel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Maj Wechselmann (Re: Describing beatiful women (Was: I owe it all to Eric ..))
Date: 3 Apr 92 13:51:03 GMT
	<1992Mar31.163441.23351@sunic.sunet.se>
	<1992Apr1.090819.24101@mack.uit.no>
	<1992Apr1.220457.4797@cs.cornell.edu>
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University



Hey, Maj Wechelmann turned 50 the other day (April 1, as a matter of
fact) and nobody seems to have noticed!

- Hans

--
Hans H{\"u}ttel, Office E1-111                   -   hans@iesd.auc.dk  
Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University
Fredrik Bajersvej 7E, 9220 Aalborg {\O} DENMARK - North Jutland is for lovers.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.nordic:2714 soc.culture.europe:3593 eunet.politics:598
From: eric@sejnet.sunet.se (Eric Thomas, SUNET)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of EU (was Re: Increasing EU opposition in Denmark)
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:30:59 GMT
Reply-To: eric@sejnet.sunet.se
Organization: Swedish University Network (SUNET), Stockholm, Sweden
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-5

In article <5-j+vc@engin.umich.edu>, muller@eddy.engin.umich.edu (Jens Dominik Muller) writes...
>If the above were true, Germany should have a very small interest in
>being in the EC. According to statements of the German employers
>organization, wages in Germany are only surpassed by wages in Japan.
>And they claim, the cost added by social benefits is the highest in
>Europe. Still, economically Germany remains the strongest nation 
>because, and this is what the Unions say, the high cost of labor is
>offset by the quality of the workforce. This apparently keeps the
>German industry from relocating their businesses to Portugal or other
>low-wage countries. 

Sigh. Germany has a well-developed, reliable, efficient infrastructure -
trains, roads, telecommunications, you name it. Germany has an attractive
geographical location within Europe. Germany also has many natural resources.
Portugal on the other hand is an array of mountains with a coastline. The
infrastructure is not quite what your average German company expects, and for
having driven around in Portugal I can assure you that it takes a lot of time
to move your bottom from point A to point B which looked quite close on a map:
you keep going up and down and up and down. When you factor all these costs,
Germany is more efficient than Portugal at doing the sort of stuff the Germans
produce.

Does Finland look more like Germany or more like Portugal? With the clear
exception of telecommunications, which are excellent in Finland, replace
mountains with frozen lakes and re-read the previous paragraph.

  Eric
From: euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Finnish Tar Pastilles and Garlic Hampurilainen
Date: 10 Apr 92 08:01:08 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

raindrop@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nathaniel Michael Pearson) writes:

>Carol Zarbock (czarbock@unlinfo.unl.edu) wanted the names of some pretty vile
>Scandinavian liquorice pastilles.  In Finland, at least, there's Leijona 
>pastilleja, cousin of Suomi minttupastilleja, I think, which tastes a bit 
>like salty tar and smells like a bandaid.  Pretty yucky.

Hey, *I* like'em. I must admit that one has to learn to appreciate this
peculiar kind of candy, though.

> Which reminds me of what in Finland is
>known as "hampurilainen" (hamburger):  a tough slab of what is hopefully 
>pork product in a pocket of cheap bread smothered with lots of mustard...I 
>preferred Carroll's burgers!  

Is Jaskan Grilli still selling garlic burgers? Now *that* is bizarre!
Imagine replacing the mustard mentioned above with mashed garlic -
and *lots* of it, too! You'll smell for a week...

FYI, Jaskan Grilli is (was?) a small kiosk, located quite near the
Parliament, that sells nothing but garlic burgers. It's a *very*
interesting culinary experience, let me tell ya.

>				Nat Pearson

--
Anders Engwall				Email: Anders.Engwall@eua.ericsson.se
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB			Voice: +46 8 727 3893
"Alvsj"o, Sweden			Fax: +46 8 647 96 44
		"Bryna nuppa fj{ssa sp}nken" - Razor
From: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: I guessed!!
Date: 7 Apr 92 11:20:43 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland


 hberg@polisci.pol.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg) writes:

>I didn't catch the beginning of this discussion, but is Jorn Donner really 
>in favor of retaining Swedish in Finland.  Back in the late 60s/early 70s he 
>was suggesting that all Finlandswedes should be put on a reservation on 
>Aland.  Has Jorn gone soft/bourgois in his old age?

I wouldn't call Jorn Donner a very narrow-minded person like Mr Ryyti
does. Jorn Donner was one of the upper-class people in Finland back
in the 1960's who were keen on left-wing ideologies. Later these people
have got well-paid jobs in politics and business life and the leftist
ideology has faded away. 

So the answer is yes. Jorn Donner has gone soft. Bourgeois he has always
been. 

Today Mr Donner is an exception in SFP (Svenska Folkpartiet). He doesn't
share the narrow-mindedness of some member of Parliament coming from
Swedish-speaking Osthrobothnia. SFP, by the way, is a very tolerant party
in allowing Jorn Donner to express opinions contrary to the government
policy and to vote against the party line.

The only common factor between Mr Donner and SFP is the language.
Most of the ones who voted him in the election were probably Finnish-
speaking. Some people see Jorn Donner as a protest figure against 
the way things are handled in Finnish politics. He is demanding more
discussion and debate. He has tried to remain as an outsider in politics
and not to become part of the ruling elite and yet operating inside
the political system.

He hasn't made any good movies recently though.

Janne Kivel"a
From: efranqui@nunki.usc.edu (Eduardo Franqui)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Date: 10 Apr 1992 18:01:36 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: nunki.usc.edu

In article <1992Apr9.065822.5004@eua.ericsson.se> euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman) writes:
>Eric Thomas writes:
>>Fredrik.Ostman writes...
>
>>>You can easily get an education that doesn't pay
>>>off. You can easily get an education that you don't even use. Maybe you
>>>can't get that special type of education that would pay off greatly, because
>>>the beaureucrats didn't realise the need for it. It's very difficult for
>>>you to control the quality of the education -- when the government pays,
>>>only quantity, measured by statistics, counts.
>
>>Count the Swedes who can't spell Swedish. Do the same for Americans. Compare.
-
-This is so silly, always comparing with America. Why not compare with some
-other part of the world? Because there are *so* many Americans on the net?
-By the way, I learnt/didn't learn to spell in school, not at the university.
-I think the same goes for America, and these schools are free of charge even 
-there? On the other hand some of the best universities in the world are 
-American.
-
-  ______                     _~
- (_/_ _  _  _/) _  . /)     / ) , _/)     _
-__/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_    (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_



Why compare to America?  Maybe because a good percentage of our high school
children can not locate our country, much less where they live, on a map.
America is a good comparison because as many countries strive to be like 
America, they should keep in mind the shortfalls that it has.  We may have some
of the best Universities, but most of our children can not attend them. 
Deservingly, citizens of other countries with better educations do.
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Fighting Racism?
Date: 10 Apr 92 08:32:37 GMT
	<1992Apr8.103952.21984@kth.se> <1992Apr9.122602.12763@eua.ericsson.se>
Distribution: soc
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim, Norway

>>>>> On Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:26:02 GMT, euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall) said:

> tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson) writes:

>>Believe it or not, but I *never learned* the national anthem in school! 
>>Back in the strange 70s it was more or less banned from school.

> Ah, those myth-surrounded 70s! Actually, it must have depended on what
> school you attended. You see, I entered 1st grade in 1970, and left
> 9th grade in 1979,

So did I.

> and I sure did learn the national anthem somewhere during that
> period. So there!

So did I. Not the swedish one, though... :-)

- Steinar
From: euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Archaic Viking dialect in the news
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:59:09 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:

>What about the Swedish spoken on Gotland and Oland, isn't that also
>very ancient, related to the original Swedish spoken by vikings? This
>dialect reminds me of my own Finnish-Swedish one, a lot of vowel 
>combinations missing in standard Swedish, and use of gender (as in German).

I don't know if I agree that gotl{dnska and finlandsvenska sound that
that similar. However, the swedish that used to be spoken in Estonia
sounded like a combination of the two - the peculiar diphthongs of
gotl{ndska combined with the pretty intonation of finlandssvenska.

>Cheers,
>Kent
--
Anders Engwall				Email: Anders.Engwall@eua.ericsson.se
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB			Voice: +46 8 727 3893
"Alvsj"o, Sweden			Fax: +46 8 647 96 44
		"Bryna nuppa fj{ssa sp}nken" - Razor
From: sundinKC@dna.lth.se (Anders Sundin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Date: 6 Apr 92 09:53:12 GMT
Organization: Organic Chemistry 2, Lund University, Sweden

Mats Dahlgren writes:

> Yes and no.  The *income* tax was lowered, but one of the main ideas in the
> taxation reform was that in *total* there should not be any lowering of the
> taxes.  Instead, we now pay "moms" (VAT) on just about everything.

True, but now I at least have the joy of actually holding all of that
money in my hand, even if it is only for a while. :-)

I do also have the option to save the money, or to spend it elsewhere
on my holidays.

-- 
 Anders Sundin           e-mail: sundinKC@dna.lth.se
 Organic Chemistry 2             Anders.Sundin@orgk2.lth.se
 University of Lund              ok2aps@gemini.ldc.lu.se
 P.O. Box 124                    ok2aps@seldc52.bitnet
 S-22100 Lund            phone:  +46 46 108214
 Sweden                  fax:    +46 46 108209
From: eric@sejnet.sunet.se (Eric Thomas, SUNET)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: I desperately need lower taxes.
Date: 13 Apr 92 11:43:47 GMT
Reply-To: eric@sejnet.sunet.se
Organization: Swedish University Network (SUNET), Stockholm, Sweden
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-5

In article <1992Apr13.091839.22392@lth.se>, sundinKC@dna.lth.se (Anders Sundin) writes...
>As I don't have any children I don't see why I should have to pay for a
>child through high taxes. I have never seen him/her, and yet I have to pay
>for everything from pre-birth check-ups to a university diploma. [...]
>I think this system is clearly unjust, and that everyone should pay for
>their own children.

"As I don't have any grandparents in Sweden, I don't see why I should have to
pay for their pension through high taxes. With my tax money I am paying the
retirement pension of Anders' grandparents (or parents, it doesn't matter). I
have never seen them, and yet I have to pay for their medical care, apartment,
and so on. I think this system is clearly unjust, and everyone should pay for
their own parents, if they are interested in keeping them alive."

Same logic, Anders, but now it sounds cynical, doesn't it? You are assuming
foresight that all parents do not necessarily have. If a child is born out of a
family which cannot support it, should the child be penalized because there is
nobody to pay for medical care, food, education, and so on? Similarly, you are
not responsible for having been born, or for the way your parents managed their
economy while they were able to work and earn a salary. There is nothing you
could have done while you were 10 years old to make them act less foolishly and
save money, maybe try to buy a house for their retirement. That's why the State
caters for these things out of tax money.

  Eric