From: bn050@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gwochyuan Chen)
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.forsale.computers reorganization <-- alternatives?
Reply-To: bn050@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gwochyuan Chen)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 07:04:50 GMT


In a previous article, mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us (Mike Miskulin) says:

>I am formally proposing the split of misc.forsale.computers into a new
>hierarchy.  At a minimum the succeeding group(s) should be:
>	    
>	misc.forsale.computers.hardware
>	misc.forsale.computers.software
>
>At a maximum (for purposes of this RFD), a succession to:
>
>	misc.forsale.computers.hardware.ibm
>	misc.forsale.computers.hardware.apple	
>	misc.forsale.computers.hardware.other
>	
>	misc.forsale.computers.software.ibm
>	misc.forsale.computers.software.apple
>	misc.forsale.computers.software.other
>
>The reason for this RFD is that many current readers of misc.forsale.
>computers believe the group is too cumbersome to read/follow in its
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>current format; simply put the volume of this group is too high for
>the existing format to continue being an effective means of offering
>computer related goods for sale.  However, there are a large number
>who would like to continue to see the group in its present format. 
>
>Following Usenet guidelines, ALL followup discussion on this topic
>should occur in news.groups ONLY.  Do not cross-post back to other
>groups such as misc.forsale.computers.  RFDs typically generate
>a large amount of traffic and can swamp a newsgroup.
>
>Regards,
>-- 
>Mike Miskulin
>mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us
>


No matter how we split up misc.forsale.computer group, the solution can
never be satisfactory to everyone.

To say that this group is too cumbersome to follow/read is off the target.
Each and every group has the same format, only those which grow to very
high volumes get the axe.    Yet splitting is not the only solution.   See
what has become of for the former Yugoslavia?

The blame, I believe, lies in that there is not a good Usenet News command
to show multiple subject lines to readers.     I have a book

Netnews Reference Manual by Anatole Olczak
2nd Ed., 1989, A System Publications, Inc., San Jose, CA

which provides detail description on all Usenet News-related commands on
UNIX.   I know little on how the News are presented to readers on other
systems.    But for those news-reading commands on UNIX:

readnews, rn, vn, and vnews

only one article's subject line is shown on the screen each time.   Although
there are commands to display ALL UNREAD articles' subject lines, they
are scrolled off the screen very quickly.

It could have worked better if we can see multiple subject lines at the
same time on the screen.   The above commands are not designed with this
vision in mind, or need far-fetched set-ups to do so.

What we need is to implement a new command which, by default, shows as many
as the screen height allows, multiple articles' subject lines on the screen
at reader's disposal.   We can move forward/backward a screenful of subject
lines at ease.

The News-reading environment at cleveland.freenet.edu is very close to what
I describe above.   It display goes like this:

First article is #1000, the last is #2000

    R 1010 For sale.........
      1011 IBM ........
      1012 Apple IIc.........
    R 1013 HD for sale
   *R 1014 Softwares ....
      1015 Sun 4.................
------------------------------------------------
   (command area)

For a VT100 emulation screen, at least a dozen articles' subject lines can
be seen simultaneously.  The * indicates the current article, while R
indicates the article has been marked 'read'.    There are command to
move up/down a screenful of subject display.   We can also jump to any
articles with a single instruction.

For the current 24-hr volume of misc.forsale.computer articles, several
screens of display can scan through them.    Like most of you, there are
very few articles I have interest in each time I read this group.   But
it takes me very little time to locate them, and mark the rest as read.

So, the solution lies not in splitting up the group, but in re-designing
the human interface for reading Usenet News.    Instead of displaying
only one subject line to us each time, display multiple subject lines each
time.

A disclaimer here: I am not affiliated in any way with Cleveland Freenet
at Case Western University.   Just pretty pleased with their Usenet News
interface.


Gwochyuan Chen

-- 

Gwochyuan Chen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bn050@cleveland.freenet.edu
* Computers are your worst investment.  They lose money faster than life
  insurance, and you don't even have to die to lose it.   -- Russ Botton
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