From: wahl@eitri.css.gov (Darrin Wahl)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: brick pavers summary
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:12:46 GMT
Reply-To: wahl@eitri.css.gov (Darrin Wahl)
Organization: Science Aplications Int'l Corp.


I posted this once, but our news server was messed up.  Sorry to waste 
bandwidth if it did come up already ...

Here is a summary of the responses I got about using brick pavers for a
patio.  Thanks to all those who responded.  I'm still comparing prices
for contractors, etc. and trying to decide whether to do it myself.
I'll let you all know how it turns out!


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Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 08:25:58 EDT
From: bsloan%dale@uunet.UU.NET (bill sloan)
To: wahl@eitri.css.gov
Subject: Re: installing brick pavers for a patio
Organization: nasa

In article <993@esosun.UUCP>, wahl@eitri.css.gov (Darrin Wahl) writes:
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has used these for a patio, and what problems
> there may be associated with them (weeds, drainage, loose pavers, etc).
> Also any info on how difficult the installation was (the brochure makes it
> look *so* easy :-), why these were chosen over other materials, etc. 
> would be appreciated.
> 
> You can send me email, and I will post a summary if there is enough interest.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --								             --
> Darrin Wahl                                                 wahl@esosun.css.gov
> Science Applications International, Corp.
> MS A2-F
> 10260 Campus Point Dr.
> San Diego, CA  92121		
> 
While I haven't actually laid a brick patio, some thoughts:

1.  you may be able to get a better price on the pavers from a brickyard if
there's one in your area (check the phone book under Building Supplies)

2.  to prevent weeds, put down a layer of weedblock fabric.

Hope this helps

Bill Sloan


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Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 07:57:16 EDT
From: trb@cbosgd.att.com (Thomas R Balent)
To: wahl@eitri.css.gov
Subject: Re: installing brick pavers for a patio
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Organization: AT&T
Cc: 

A paver is a special brick that is made with the intention of being used
as the name implies - for paving.  Other types of brick are for building
(i.e., walls, building, etc). Pavers are more durable and will not
fall apart as easily.  The things you are mentioning sound like some
sort of DO-IT-YOURSELF "kit" that Home Depot carries - which should be
fine, if they are true paving bricks. The proceedure you mentioned 
sounds correct except for one thing - after the first sand and before
the brick, lay a sheet of building paper (tar impregnated paper) - or
heavy plastic - then the bricks. This will help prevent weeds from 
taking root.


I just (last week) had my brick walk relayed. I did not use a kit, I
had someone lay it for me. I used paving brick. Drainage is a problem.
In certain areas you will have to plan ahead and allow for a slope so
that water can run off. You may also want to install drainage tile
under the sand.  Installation may be easy, the two problems you might
have is (1) bricks get heavy if you have to tote them any distance
and (2) if the bricks do not exactly fit in the area to be paved you
will need to cut some of the bricks on the edges to make it look ok.


tom


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Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 08:21:20 EDT
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
To: wahl@eitri.css.gov
Subject: Re: installing brick pavers for a patio

I haven't done this myself, but am considering it.

I have done a bit of research and it looks like a reasonable
doi-it-yourself installation. My only concern is dispoing of the
concrete from an existing sidewalk and porch.

I've talked to a couple of people who have patios or driveways
made of pavers. They seem pretty immune to frost heaving,
but you don't need to worry about that in San Diego. You
do need a good solid base that won't settle. For driveways,
this probably requires a contractor and heavy equipment, but a 
patio should get bye with a rented compactor. 

There can be problems with tree roots, but you would have the same thing
with concrete. the big difference is that the pavers can be fixed easily -
dig up the section, cut out the root, reset the sand base and put
back the pavers - while fixing buckled concrete is a major job.

I am interested in what you learn. Please post or email a summary
of the responses that you get.

	- Bob

	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research Laboratories
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.

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Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 12:05:33 -0400
From: Steve Weiss <weiss@cs.unc.edu>
To: wahl@eitri.css.gov
Subject: Re: installing brick pavers for a patio
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

I have a brick patio.

Pros: I like the look and it's easy to fix small problems.

Cons: weeds come up between the bricks.  And tree roots create a problem.
I once asked a contractor if a cement patio would be less prone to root
damage and he said that the roots would crack the cement just the same way
they buckle the bricks.  But bricks are easier to fix.

Bottom line: we are redoing the patio, using brick again.


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From: rogerv@sco.COM
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 18:02:44 PDT
To: wahl@eitri.css.gov
Subject: Re: installing brick pavers for a patio
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

Darrin,

We had a patio made of pavers in the last house that we had.  They were
touted as being better than concrete and brick.  The adhesion between the
pavers is on the edges, and if put on a properly compacted base, they
are very strong and will last virtually forever.  Regular brick has no
adhesion between the edges of adjacent bricks, since they are much smoother
and are made to install with some kind of mortar.

Anyway, I have nothing negative to say about them.  Ours were a 
pseudo-cobblestone pattern, and were a very attractive color...actually,
they are a mixture of colors.  Anyway, the patio looked very nice, and
felt VERY solid.  We did the perimeter up with a 6" strip of concrete
that was dyed to match the paver colors, and this served to hold the edges
of the paver surface (you have to edge it with something; concrete or
redwood are common).

Eventually, some teeny weeds started growing up between the pavers, not
from the ground, but seeds that took root in the sand.  We took care of
that periodically with Round-up, so that was not a problem.
Oh, incidentally, we put a weed block cloth under the pavers so that our
bermuda grass wouldn't start trying to grow up in between the pavers.  The
only problem that we anticipated was with gophers, and that did not prove
to be a problem, probably due to the fact that the compacted base was not
interesting to the gophers as a place to dig.

I wouldn't install them myself, but I do recommend them to anyone who is
looking for an attractive patio, and can afford to pay a contractor to
do the job.  They also make excellent driveways and walkways, etc.

-Roger


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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 09:01:08 PDT
To: wahl@eitri.css.gov
Subject: Re: installing brick pavers for a patio
From: tff@plato.boeing.com (Terry F Figurelle,773-9987)

I think they are great. Many places now carry inexpensive plastic paver
holders that prevent weeds from growing and keep the pavers evenly spaced!
Make sure to have a gentle slope away from the house for runoff.

Here's what we have:

Driveway & walkways - red (brick like) pavers that create a hexagon & square
pattern. Installed six years ago and still very flat with no problems. Base
was compacted fill (around here fill is basically clay & gravel) with four
inches of compacted pea gravel (more like very course sand). Then the plastic
holders (the holders interlock and have a small drain hole in the middle of
each paver and are approx. 2x2 ft) were installed with a ten inch plastic side
wall (like a grass border). Next, the pavers were installed and washed sand
was spread on top (brushed into gaps with a broom). Finally, hose off the
excess sand. We've done nothing since.

Rear patio - red (brick color) large rectangular pavers (two pavers per 16x16
plastic holder) with each paver being slightly less than 8x16 inches. Same
procedure as above except sloped four inches per ten feet away from house.

Notes - we rarely have to shovel snow but if you do make sure to get pavers
that have beveled edges so shovel doesn't run into them. If you have any
settling lift up that section and spread some more sand (crushed rock is even
better).

I'd say go for it - I think it looks better than poured cement and holds up
better too.


Terry F Figurelle			Boeing Defense & Space Group
email: tff@plato.ds.boeing.com		PO BOX 3999, Mail Stop 8H-56
phone: 206-773-9987 fax:206-773-9759	Seattle, WA 98124-2499
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house