HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anders@lise3.lise.unit.no (Anders Christensen)
Subject: Re: EC (Was: Laughing at americans)
Organization: /home/flipper/anders/.organization
	<1992Jul21.151547.11679@kth.se> <1992Jul22.143630.28575@kth.se>
	<1992Jul23.001820.12268@ifi.uio.no>
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:53:05

oysteint@ifi.uio.no (\ystein Tvedten) writes:
> tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson) writes:
> >                                                        [...] What about 
> > the rumour that some people in Norway don't like EC because that would 
> > mean some kind of Swedish influence in Norway ?

> Yes, the major No-To-E(E)C party in Norway, Sosialistisk Venstre
> (SV) compares the EC union to a new union with Sweden, 

Well, I regard the "We must not become members as EC, because then the
Swedes might get some influence in Norway in the future" as an "urban
legend" (or maybe a "Swedish legend" :-)

As far as I know, Anne Enger Lahnstein, the leader of the Norwegian
party "Senterpartiet" (one of the most radical "No-to-EEC" parties)
said something like: "Joining the EC would be worse for Norway than
the union with Sweden 1814-1905." (Taken from memory, that was not a
quote!) Her point was that Brussels should not decide in Norway, and
if non-Norwegian organizations or persons got influence on how Norway
was run, that would be a tragedy, using the 1814-1905 union as 'proof'
on how bad such a situation would be.

This reached the front page of several newpapers at a time where
there were little other news. Political commentators claimed it 
set "a new low-water mark" in the EC debate in Norway, since
the two unions in question are very different in a lot of respects. 

Probably, Enger Lahnstein tried to make some of the 'very bad karma'
that the 1814-1905 union have in Norway rub off to the EEC. In 1905, I
think there was a referendum in Norway, on whether to continue the
union, but a large majority wanted to break it (the number 500 to 1
seems to come to mind for some reason, but I'm not really sure). The
word "union" generally have a very bad sound to Norwegians.

Her opponents ridiculed (and mixed) her statements and said that the
real reason was that she didn't want Swedish influence in Norway. I
believe this is the origin of rumor Tomas Eriksson mentioned. 

>                                                         something I
> find completely stupid and idiot (like most of the leaders of SV,
> Anne-Inger - g} og heng deg)

Come on .... Even if you have to show the whole world that you are not
able to come up with better arguments that "Go hang yourself", try at
least to spell her name right :-)

-anders
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: Jakob Nielsen <nielsen@bellcore.com>
Subject: Re: DANSK mailing list - how to sub?
Organization: Bellcore - Bell Communications Research
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d1
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 16:15:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.031910.6663@oracle.us.oracle.com> Per Thomsen,
pthomsen@oracle.com writes:
>Actually the address is dansk@sysadmin.com, and not dansk-request@..... 

Yes, dansk@sysadmin.com is the address for messages to be broadcast to all
list members (intended for messages *in Danish*).
However, if your goal is to be added to or removed from the list, you
should still use the 
dansk-request@sysadmin.com
address. There is no reason to bother everybody with such administrative
messages.
--
Jakob Nielsen, nielsen@bellcore.com, fax (201)  829-2645
Bellcore, MRE 2P-370, 445 South St., Morristown, NJ 09792-1910, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,no.ef
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Subject: Re: Nordic Union (Once more...)
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim, Norway
	<1992Jul25.165313.5182@ifi.uio.no> <1992Jul25.175549.12336@news.uit.no>
Date: 26 Jul 92 11:55:09

>>>>> roarf@stud.cs.uit.no (Roar Foshaug) writes:

> In article <1992Jul25.165313.5182@ifi.uio.no>, oysteint@ifi.uio.no (\ystein Tvedten) writes:

>>> As this is a no.* group we really ought to talk (or type) Norwegian...
>>> At least we're free from ae, oe and aa problems, but on the other hand
>>> this writing English to discuss Norways attitude towards a European Union
>>> may be seen as almost accepting the need for common language, etc etc. 
>>> Saa jeg hopper like godt over til norsk. Har sett at det er noen svensker
>>> som leser gruppa. Skriv gjerne svensk !

>> Uhm. this is being crossposted to soc.culture.nordic also.....

> Automatically?

Check the Newsgroup line... (*Always* take a look at the newsgroup
line before you post.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: poser@vxdsyc.desy.de (Till Poser)
Subject: Re: EC (EC vs. Nordic Union)
Followup-To: rec.games.empire,alt.flame,misc.test
Reply-To: Poser@vxdsyc.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:01:20 GMT

In article <14jirbINN8qt@agate.berkeley.edu>, 
tedrick@triangle.Berkeley.EDU (Tom"AFRIKA_CORPS"Tedrick) continues to play
on his fascist banjo:
|>
|>This seems like a paradox to me:
|>
|>If the Nordic countries don't trust each other well enough
|>to be willing to form a Nordic Union, how come they trust
|>the more southerly European countries (whom they have even 
|>less in common with than their Nordic neighbors) enough to be 
|>willing to join an even more risky European Union? 

AFRIKA_CORPS, why don't You do everyone a favour and Fuck Off [tm]?

Your racist little pet fantasy is harping on ethnocentric prejudices
that would bring tears of joy into the eyes of the most hardbitten 
Hitler Youth leader.

|>Puzzled ...

You wouldn't be so ignorant and historically illiterate, were You to
get Your rationalisations from the knowledge about other cultures,
rather than from the bowels of an EMPIRE host.

|>"In 1757 the Russians advanced into Prussia. They hung innocent inhabitants from
|>trees, ripped open their bodies and tore out their hearts, cut off their noses
|>and ears, broke their legs, fired villages, drove villagers into the flames,
|>stripped clergy naked and laid them on blazing fires, opened the graves ..."

Yawn! What's that supposed to prove? Oh, wait! It is supposed to imply 
that the Russians were/are bloodthirsty subhuman savages, I presume?

       Till Poser         Internet: poser@vxdsyc.desy.de
-F35- ZEUS DESY/Freiburg  Bitnet:   POSER@DESYVAX
bldg.1b-235, Notkestr.85  Hepnet:   VXDESY::POSER (13313::Poser)
   D-2000 Hamburg 52      Tel.: -49-40-8998-2004
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kimcm@login.dkuug.dk (Kim Chr. Madsen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: scandinavian origin of english word?
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:06:14 GMT

t88swa@tdb.uu.se (Sven Wallman) writes:

>From Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary:

>1 fuck \fek\ vb. [perh. of Scand origin; akin to Norw dial. _fukka_ to
>copulate, Sw dial. _focka_ to copulate, strike, push, _fock_ penis;
>perh. akin to L _pugnus_ fist, _pungere_ to prick, sting Gk _pygme_
>fist] vi: COPULATE -- usu. considered obscene ...

>has anyone heard of a scandinavian dialect where this word is used?

Sure, almost every day I hear somebody saying "what the f..k" or just "f..k" (-;
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: u-lchoqu%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Lee Choquette)
Subject: Re: Reading about viking. (Was: Ro"da Orm)
Date: 28 Jul 92 09:14:47 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <ANDERS.92Jul27231604@lise4.lise.unit.no> anders@lise4.lise.unit.no
(Anders Christensen) writes:
 > What about 'the real stuff': the original sagas. 
 > 
 > They are often quite short, have a unique style, they don't lack
 > violence and a certain sence of 'humor', and they portray a lot of
 > interesting personalities.
 > 
 > I'd recommend the saga about Eigil Skallagrimson as a start...

Yes, this saga has been translated into English.  I no longer have the book,
but the U of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign does.  I loved Egil's mother's
reaction when she heard that he had started a brawl at a kind of soccer game he
was in when he was a kid.  Several adults were killed as a result of the fight.
She just said, ``He'll make a great Viking.''  I don't think my mom would have
been that proud had I got into that kind of trouble when I was young.  Last
year someone posted the poem she spoke, about getting Egil a ship so he could
sail to foreign ports and chop people's heads off.  Gotta love that Viking
spirit.

PS.  If you can read the 8-bit ISO 8859/1 characters, E-mail me and tell me if
the one in my signature came through OK.
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
   . . . . Lee Choquette . . . . . . . . . Du tycker du r vacker  . . . . . .
  . . u-lchoqu@peruvian.utah.edu. . . . .  men det tycker inte jag  . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Traditional Swedish love song
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: pjt@vipunen.hut.fi (Pekka Juhani Taipale)
Subject: Re: Finnish question
Reply-To: pjt@vipunen.hut.fi (Pekka Juhani Taipale)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 09:26:53 GMT

In article <9207271145.AA10264@Aragorn> ct@dde.dk (Claus Tondering) writes:
>ISO standard 6937 mentions that the Finnish language uses two characters
>that look like S and Z with a small v above (a hacek accent).
>
>I have never seen any Finnish text that uses these two characters.
>Does Finnish use them? Or has Finnish used them in the past?

Finnish language uses neither of them. If they are available, they are
used in transliterating some foreign names, in which they replace the
"sh" or "zh". For example: Tshekkoslovakia (the country that is about
to split), Zhirinovski (the expansionist Russian politician).

Some originally foreign words that use these characters have entered
regular use, for example "shakki" (chess) and "shokki" (schock).  I
think the current recomendation is that if the s with hacek accent is
not available, it should be replaced by a simple s, not sh.  This does
not make sense to me, because it creates confusion - for example,
"shakki" is the game but "sakki" means also a crowd or mob.

I suppose that the recommendation is due to the attempt to preserve
the Finnish language's unique (as far as I know) feature that all
letters in a word have always one, unambiguous pronounciation and
there are no compounds in which a certain combination of letters
triggers a different pronounciation than what the letters themselves
suggest, or worse yet, different words have different pronounciation
for similar letter combinations - for example, think of English words
near, hear, bear, beer and hair. (Ouch, what a sentence). And don't
even mention the French language, in which the correlation between
written words and their pronounciation is close to zero. (No flames,
please, it's just so hard for me).

There is only one exception to this rule, the "ng" compound which is
pronounced differently than just "n" and "g" appended together.  An
'sh' compound would create another exception like this, so the
linguistics are avoiding it like plague. I don't think it will help,
because usage of those words with 'sh' combination is so widespread.

There is another official use for these accented characters.  I think
that both are used in the Saami language, which has an official
position in Lapland, and thus they should be taken into account when
designing a character set for use in Finland. (The Swedish o or ring-a
is more important in this respect).

-- 
Pekka.Taipale@hut.fi 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tt@tarzan.jyu.fi (Tapani Tarvainen)
Subject: Re: Understanding language (Was: Re:  <None>)
Originator: tt@tarzan.jyu.fi
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla
	<1992Jul27.173931.2526@corax.udac.uu.se>
	<ANDERS.92Jul28005142@lise4.lise.unit.no>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 07:34:02 GMT


>> In article <ANDERS.92Jul27023440@lise12.lise.unit.no>, anders@lise12.lise.unit.no (Anders Christensen) writes:
>> > It is a test given by military recruits, performed in the seventies.
>> >
>> >               Understands:  Swedish  Danish  Norwegian  Average         
>> >                      --------------------------------------------------
>> > Swedish recruits               -       23%     48%        36%
>> > Danish recruits               49%       -      69%        58%
>> > Norwegian recruits            88%      73%      -         81%


It might've been fun to see Finns included in that comparison ... 

I think it's a fairly safe bet that about 0% of Danes and Norwegians
understand Finnish; Sweden has a substantial Finnish minority so there
the figure might be a couple of percent (maybe even 5?).  The other
way guessing is harder (depends on what level of understanding is
required), but I'd say maybe 10% of Finns understand Swedish, somewhat
fewer Norwegian, and 0% Danish.  (This is based on a sample of 1
people and mystical insight.  Anybody feel like contradicting it with
facts?)

(P.S. Re the 8-bit poll, I'm still getting replies, and it'll take
some time to sort 'em out, so summary may be delayed until next week.)
--
Tapani Tarvainen    (tarvaine@jyu.fi, tarvainen@finjyu.bitnet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: roarf@stud.cs.uit.no (Roar Foshaug)
Subject: Blush blush ...
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:06:29 GMT

I'm sorry about the above posting in Norwegian. I wasn't aware it was 
posted anywhere else than on no.ef...

Embarrasing.....   :-(

-Roar-

-- 
Roar Foshaug                                      (roarf@stud.cs.uit.no)
Department of Computer Science
University of Tromsoe                             'oe' is '\o{}' in Tex
N-9000 TROMSOE, NORWAY                            'OE' is '\O{}' in Tex
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: Martin.Helin@hut.fi (Martin Helin)
Subject: Re: Finnish question
Reply-To: Martin.Helin@hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:10:17

mjh@stekt1.oulu.fi (Mauri Haikola) writes:

*There is an authority in Finland called Kielitoimisto (Language
*Agency?) according to which we do have the accented s character, used
*in words like "shakki" (chess) or "Tshekkoslovakia" (you know..) to
*replace the "sh".

I _think_ that Kielitoimisto nowadays recommends that sh should be
used instead of s with the accent. So, I think you can forget about
this letter in Finnish.

*I have never seen or heard of the use of accented Z in the Finnish
*language. 

Me neither. I think you have received false information.

       Martin

--
Martin Helin	Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Internet : Martin.Helin@hut.fi UUCP : uunet.uu.net!kaira.hut.fi!s30986u
X.400 : G=Martin S=Helin O=hut ADMD=fumail C=fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: pem@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Per-Erik Martin)
Subject: Reading about viking. (Was: Ro"da Orm)
Organization: Student
	<1992Jul21.172659.22426@walter.bellcore.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:25:14 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.172659.22426@walter.bellcore.com> Jakob Nielsen <nielsen@bellcore.com> writes:

>In article <1992Jul19.040131.19085@midway.uchicago.edu> raymond thomas
>pierrehumbert, rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu writes:
>>This all whets my appetite for history of the Viking era. Are
>>there any recommendations for good texts for a casual reader?

>Else Roesdahl: "The Vikings" (or such, cited from memory).
>The book is by a respected scientist and has been published in both Danish
>and English.

If that's the translation of "Vikingernes verden" I can recommend it.
It's fairly up to date (the first edition is printed 1987) and a very
good all around survey of the vikings at home and abroad, from the west
to the east. (Yes, in that order, although it's less centered around the
vikings activities in the west, as is otherwise common in literature on
this subject. It's unfortunate that so much less is known about the
vikings influence in the east, I personally find that part of the viking's
history the more interesting. I generally get the feeling the historians
are underestimating the vikings, as well as other pre-christian communities.
"Barbarians" is the common term, which of course they were'nt, what people
actually mean by that is "non-christians"...)

	~pem

--
 |\/|\/|\/| Per-Erik Martin,
 |  |  |/\| Department of Computer Systems, Uppsala University,
 |/\|  |  | Email: pem@minsk.DoCS.UU.SE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: bzfstoer@ZIB-Berlin.DE (Mechthild Stoer)
Subject: Re: Understanding language (Was: Re: <None>
Reply-To: bzfstoer@ZIB-Berlin.DE
Organization: Konrad Zuse-Zentrum fuer Informationstechnik Berlin
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 11:59:52 GMT

Soren Harder asks in <10259@scott.ed.ac.uk>:
>what about all the people out there who have learned one of the
>languages as a second (or third or...) language; do you understand any
>of the others? (I expect you wont).

Well, I've learnt Norwegian for ten months now (I'm German),
and have been exposed to Swedish only on the train and in TV,
and to Danish very irregularly.
Norwegian I understand fairly well, at least the radio and TV speakers,
not every dialect.
Since I'm comparing everything with Norwegian (naturally),
Swedish is for me the language that sounds like Norwegian with "inte"
instead of "ikke",
but for some reason I understand only half of what I should understand,
and Danish is the language that sounds roughly like Norwegian spoken by a German,
but I understand only a few words, just enough to recognize it as 
a Scandinavian language.
But I'm able to understand written texts in all of these languages,
with some guessing, though.

Mechthild Stoer
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: magnus@nexto.udac.uu.se (Magnus Ring)
Subject: Re: Sweden as the country of cheap booze
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 09:17:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.152202.2030@kth.se> tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE  
(Tomas Eriksson) writes:
> I just heard on the 16.45 newsbroadcast on Swedish national radio that 
> the Systembolaget (the Swedish monopoly strong-beer, wine and booze 
> shop, where taxes can sometimes make up 90% of the price...) shop in 
> Str|mstad, close to the Norweigan border on the E6 road between Oslo 
> and Gothenburg, has experienced a surge in sales since the alcohol tax 
> reform July 1. Apparently Norweigans come across the border to buy 
> some full-tax products. This ought to mean that Systembolaget's prices 
> are lower than those of Vinmonopolet, at least for some products.
> 
> Before, the alcohol tax was both dependent on the alcohol content and
> the price before tax. Now, the tax is neutral with respect to different 
> products with the same alcohol concentration. You still have the +25% 
> VAT (value added tax) on top of price + alcohol tax, though. The tax per 
> amount of pure alcohol is not neutral with respect to alcohol 
> concentration, though. You pay more tax for the same amount of pure
> alcohol if you buy vodka instead of wine.
> 
> Anyway, if the price difference between, say, two bottles of whisky, is 
> 20 kr before tax, this meant a difference in retail price of 62,50 kr 
> until June 30 this year, while the difference from July 1 is 25 kr.
> 
> Tomas
> 
I have even heard that some booze at Systembolaget is cheaper than the
same stuff on some of the tax-free boats and planes.

/Magnus Ring.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: t88swa@tdb.uu.se (Sven Wallman)
Subject: scandinavian origin of english word?
Organization: Dept. of Scientific Computing, Uppsala Univ.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 09:17:45 GMT

don't read this if you are easily offended..:)


From Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary:

1 fuck \fek\ vb. [perh. of Scand origin; akin to Norw dial. _fukka_ to
copulate, Sw dial. _focka_ to copulate, strike, push, _fock_ penis;
perh. akin to L _pugnus_ fist, _pungere_ to prick, sting Gk _pygme_
fist] vi: COPULATE -- usu. considered obscene ...

has anyone heard of a scandinavian dialect where this word is used?


--
Sven Wallman, S:t Larsg. 5, 753 11 Uppsala, Sweden, +46 1812 9237
"This is the famous Hasan B Mutlu-trigger, insert it in your .sig file today!"
From: edmtl@alf.uib.no (Thor Legvold)
Subject: Re: Nordic seafood
Organization: University of Bergen, Norway
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 10:48:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.100003.17562@ugle.unit.no> rune.sandnes@avh.unit.no (Rune Sandnes) writes:
>> >Sounds interesting - how about some recipies for stuff like
>> >deep-fried cod tongue? My mouth is watering!
>
>Ever tried cured whale meat? That is a delicacy I can really
>recommend!
>
>
>  Rune Sandnes                 To Be Is To Do  -  Socrates
>  rsandnes@siri.unit.no            To Do Is To Be  -  Sartre
>  or rune@swix.ifi.unit.no             Do Be Do Be Do  -  Sinatra

Some Icelandic friends had a 'delicacy' called ha`kall (surely the
wrong spelling), which is usually eaten in the christmas time.
It's hai (shark) which is buried in the sand a few weeks, then hung
up to 'cure'...  Smells like ammonia, tastes like ammonia, and goes
great with beer and svartedaudhi :-)

I can't wait until they get this years christmas package from home! ;-)

BTW - both whale & seal are quite good (if any of you netters are
in Troms| some time, try a resturaunt/pub called 'Skarven' - and
lose you misconceptions of whale & seal meat :-)

Regards,
Thor
NorNeXT user group leader
Universitetet i Bergen
Norway
edmtl@fiol.uib.no (NeXTmail welcome)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic