HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: apctrc!zjtp04@uunet.UU.NET (John T. Penn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: US soldiers & Somalia
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:55:40 GMT
Organization: Amoco Production Company, Tulsa Research


In article <1993Jan4.204700.1@cc.helsinki.fi>, mtanskanen@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
# All I know of rifle shooting, is to keep the butt of the rifle *very* close to
# your shoulder.
# Well, every time I see these American peace-makers in Somalia, their rifles
# butt is very high on their shoulders if not really over it. That means
# vertically, of course.
# What I wonder, why, in contrary with my education, one should use his rifle
# like this?
# 
# Maybe I have missed something. But could someone please tell?
# --Marko
# (ok, sig&all still missin')
#>
#>This technique is what we were trained to use in the Sheriff's academy. What
#>you do is to place the bottom corner of the rifle butt in the shoulder pocket,
#>which is to the inside of the shoulder ball and just below gthe collar bone.
#>This position increases control of the weapon, decreases the amount of tilt
#>of the head and neck to sight the weapon, and is very effective in controlling
#>the recoil as it all goes directly into the pocket. This method is also 
#>extremely effective for shotguns.
#>Give it a try sometime.
#>Luck, J. T. Penn
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Full auto rate of fire
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:26:15 GMT
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet


-> big brothers.  At full chat, holding with one hand AND keeping the
-> burst on target is pretty easy.  While the .380 is kinda puny shot

 I have to work at keeping my MAC-11 under control.  However,
considering I'm loading hot enough to put pretty little belts around the
back end of those thin Winchester cases, I guess we're talking apples
and oranges here.


-> A friend of mine has a full auto Mac-11 in .380 complete with
-> supressor.

 For sustained full-auto fire, you need a suppressor that doesn't use
packing.  A friend of mine manufactures ported-barrel units using
shortened MAC or Uzi carbine barrels and aluminum sleeves.  Besides
being quieter than packed devices, there's no packing to come out, so
they don't get louder under use.  Every now and then you have to clean
the crud from the inside of the barrel sleeve, but it's easier than
playing puzzle games with a MAC or Ciener unit.
From: jeffl@servprod.inel.gov (Jeff Later)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Where can I find a new or used UZI semi-auto??????
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:05:03 GMT
Organization: WINCO

Subject line says it all!!

Thanks in advance!

Jeff Later
 _____________________________________________________________________________
||~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~||
||Jeff B. Later  WB7TZA  "jeffl@pmafire.inel.gov" |    "I have become        ||
||*"Disclaimer, Disclaimer, Where's My Lawyer!"*  |   comfortably numb"      || 
||                                                |      Pink Floyd          ||
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ammo source for Japanese rifle
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:20:24 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <9301122008.AA25957@fajita.saic.com> carl@fajita.saic.com (Carl L. LaFevers 6409) writes:
#
#I have a WWII Japanese rifle, tentatively identified as a Model 99, Bolt
#action, with a fixed magazine.
#I was told it was a 7.7mm.

  The Model 99 Ariska used the 7.7x58 Japanese Ariska round which in
its military load had a 175 gr bullet with a 2400 fps muzzle velocity.
# ...
#Is this a right size?
#Is this a standard cartridge?
#Is it available?

  It sounds right - but it isn't a common caliber.

#Can I get ammo in the  states or do I need to order from Japan?

  I don't know.  Get a copy of the Shotgun News and check all the
ads carefully and then ask the vendors of mil. surplus if they ever
carry this.  The Old Western Scrounger often carries hard to find
calibers.

#Is reloading my only hope?

  If you can find reloadable brass (either as brass or as ammo)
it certainly is an easy way to keep this shooting.

#The rifle is in pretty good condition, does it have any inherent value?
#	(other than being a neat collectable rifle 8-) ).

  Don't know.

#Where can I find information  about this rifle?

  Small Arms of the World by Ezell has a chapter on "Imperial Japanese
World War II Weapons" which briefly mentions the origin and
characteristics of the Type 99.  Cartridges of the World includes
this cartridge.  (*Most* cartridges are included, but not all, as
Alexander E. gently pointed out to me recently. :-)  Sarco, Inc.
carries some parts and cleaning rods.

--henry schaffer
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Saved by the gun
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:54:46 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores-of-the-Pacific, California

In article <1993Jan2.004506.18527@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
#In article <1i2inoINN1bm@clem.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) writes:
# 
### In other news tonite, the local news reported a woman kidnapped and raped
### after the rapist took her to his house and chained her to the bed.  
### He fell asleep after raping the woman.  She got loose from her chains,
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Realize that this strongly implies that the woman was naked.

### got his gun and killed him.  Police say there will be no charges filed.

##I guess stress and shock were in play, here, but again, on the surface, she  
##should not have shot and killed him if she apparently had the chance to leave.
##Taking the gun, of course.

#  What guarantee was there that he wouldn't wake up and attack her?
#Even if she took the gun, does she have to risk using it in a combat
#situation?

#  What should the woman have done?  Do we know how easy it
#would have been for her to get out of the house - might she 
#have had to put down the gun to unlock some of the doors? -

Or put on some clothing...

#could she have done it sufficiently silently to avoid waking
#the kidnapper/rapist? - could she have left the house easily,
#or would she have been in a rural-area-needing-to-walk-miles?

Would you want to take the chance that the rapist would not wake
up while you were putting your clothes on (or trying to find them
where ever the rapist put them ...).

The case of the store owner turns on the question of the intent of
the robbers when they turned their backs.  Leaving the store vs. 
grabbing a hostage, for example.  The case of the {naked} woman
and the rapist is, IMHO, clear.  She was justified to shoot him
since she had every reason to believe that she was likely to be
{caught,raped AGAIN, killed, tortured} if she tried to get dressed
and leave peacefully.  She was in a disadvantaged tactical position
and got a {slim} chance to preserve her life.  The gun provided that
chance, and she used it wisely.




-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Reloading Bench Plans??
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:14:12 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

I build benches two different ways:
#1- Heavy- use 4"x4"x4' for the uprights, build 3 "Ladders"
for the horizontal's, 1st one 6" off floor, 2nd at your fav
height(opt) for a shelf and 3rd flush with top. Finish with 3/4 or
1" plywood screwed to the top ladder. Then box in 3 sides of
the bench (back, L & R sides). Use 1/2" plywood for the shelves.
This is one heavy SOB when done and I even use dado cuts on the
ladders for stability and to stop any side to side flexing.
Unless you have a table saw or radial saw forget the dadoe
cuts. Then finish the top of the workbench off with formica
or polyurethane varnish. If you are limited in the power tool
dept have the lumber yard cut the 4x4's in half. Other wise
a "roofers" quick square makes an excellent saw quide for
quick cuts. If one or two legs are off in legnth the rocking
will drive you nuts. You can compensate for this with "screw
in" feet (just like your washing machine) to level the bench.
Yes I build them for friends, materials costs around ~$100.00.
Building in outlets, trash bin, lights, wood vise all add
to the cost. Do not scrimp on the lumber, straight stuff
costs money, sometimes 3 times the discount costs of garbage
that is sold in "Home improvment centers". The white 2"x4"x8"
that I use are $3.50 apiece. DONT USE TREATED LUMBER INDOORS.
Build it square the first time and use screws to hold it to-
gether so if you screw up you dont have to pull nails. This
style bench takes ME about 1 and a half hours to cut and
assemble. Have fun.

#2- Medium- use 1"x2" and 1"x4" Pine (either GOOD furring
strips or #2 pine) Use "screw and Glue" techniques. It is
easier to tell you where to look than describe "trestle"
construction. Go to a Hobby shop and pick up one of "Model
Railroaders" "Building Benchwork" books, it is about 1/2 as
thick as "shooters bible" but has step by step construction
techniques. These benches are light and strong. Has a lot
of good ideas even for apartments, don't laugh, those HO
and N gauge layouts are HEAVY once all the scene stuff is
done using plaster of paris and chicken wire along with the
track, switch machines, buildings, wire, etc. OH YEA, use screws
for all the construction so you can take whatever isn't 
glued apart, so put the whole thing together before you use
any glue.
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I BUY my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Airguns for Sale: Update
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:18:13 GMT
Organization: Wayne State University

Just about everything has been sold, with the exception of the Crosman 700,
and the Crosman Backpacker. Thanks to all.

   --mike
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .22 Magnum Semi-Autos?
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:15:24 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <01GT2YPH8GQG91WNJK@vega.selu.edu>, by pusv1305@altair.selu.edu:
# Has anyone seen a .22 Magnum Semi-Auto Pistol or Rifle?  NO DERRINGERS.

Does AMT still make the one they did?
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: roa@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Robert O. Anderson Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Where to order??
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:27 GMT


Just seeking the wisdom of the net.

I need/want to order some items and I'm just curious as 
to where YOU would order the following:

1 RCBS dies .222
    and shellholder
1 pound IMR4198
1 (100) Nosler Ballistic Tip .224 50 gr.
2 (200) Nosler Ballistic Tip .277 130 gr.
2 pounds IMR4350

Options:
        Nosler loading manual..... or do I really need it??? I already have
        a Lyman, Speer, and a 'older than dirt' Hornady manual.

My son was somewhat disappointed with the preformance of his .243 this year.
He's gotten a .270 in his head.... and we all know how it is to want a 
new or different rifle.... and I'd like to have 700 Mossy Oak. So our 
.243's (both 700BDL's - 1 LH, 1RH) and my 700ADL RH .270 are for sale.

Any and all advice will be appreciated.

Bobby
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mmx19 powder choice?
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:25:53 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

#What's the definition of a "good" load? I can imagine that a "good" load
#for hunting may be a load that can knock down animals quickly. But, what 
#does it mean when we talk about a good load for shooting bowling pins?

One that maximizes the probability of the pin being knocked off a table
(generally with at least a couple of feet of table behind the pin) even
with a slightly off center of pin hit.

Typical "good" loads a heavy bullets with a wadcutter profile or other
profile which "digs in" rather than "glances off" the pin.  Round nose
tend to merely knock the pin over, particularly with less than perfect
center hits.

                                        rob b.
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Aftermarket Stuff for AK/SKS
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:25:43 GMT


#The only loophole I see is that if you took an imported SKS and attached
#a folding stock _made in the USA_ to the SKS, then you wouldn't be
#assembling anything "from imported parts" because the damning part was
#not imported.

The BATF, in their infinite wisdom, still sees this as a violation
because the SKS is a collection of imported parts.

Rob
From: mac@cis.ksu.edu (Myron A. Calhoun)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: falling bullet does not "compute"
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:31:18 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University, Dept. of Computer Science


in his summary of the relevant section (Chapter 20, "Bullets from
the sky") of Hatcher's Notebook by Julian S. Hatcher, Major General,
USA, Retired Stackpole Books, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania;
ISBN 0-8117-0614-1 $24.95 (hardcover)
jgreely@morganucodon.cis.ohio-state.edu (J Greely) copied

	"Calculations indicate that the 150-grain .30-caliber
	 Service bullet fired straight up at a muzzle velocity
	 of 2700 feet per second will rise 9000 feet, taking
	 about 18 seconds to do it; and that it takes 31
	 seconds to return to earth, the last few thousand
	 feet of the fall being at a nearly constant speed of
	 a bit over 300 feet per second."

The last clause of the above paragraph just doesn't "compute", at least
not in the way I use the English language!

Suppose "a bit over 300" means "301";
then a constant-speed fall of 9000 feet at 301 fps takes 29.9 seconds,
      (and a "nearly constant speed" shouldn't be
       much different; see the next two paragraphs)
which doesn't jibe with "the last few thousand feet of the fall".

Well, maybe "a bit over 300" means "325";
then a constant-speed fall of 9000 feet at 325 fps takes 27.7 seconds,
which still doesn't jibe.

Well, maybe "a bit over 300" means "349"
             (any bigger and the quote would have had
	      to be "a bit under 400 feet per second"!);
then a constant-speed fall of 9000 feet at 349 fps takes 25.8 seconds,
which still doesn't jibe, unless "few" means 83%!

I'm not saying the quotation is wrong nor that any particular numer is
wrong.  BUT THEY CAN NOT ALL BE CORRECT, or even approximately correct!
--Myron.
-- 
# We preserve our freedoms using four boxes:  soap, ballot, jury, and cartridge.
# Myron A. Calhoun, PhD EE; Assoc. Professor  (913) 539-4448 home
# INTERNET: mac@cis.ksu.edu (129.130.10.5)          532-6350 work, 532-7353 fax
#     UUCP: ...rutgers!depot!mac     Packet-BBS: W0PBV @ K0VAY.#NEKS.KS.USA.NAOM
From: TTC103@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .22 Magnum Semi-Autos?
Date: 7 Jan 93 03:45:05 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Marlin is coming out with a camp carbine in .22 WMF for 93.
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Full auto rate of fire
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:21:27 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <199301051556.AA24908@news.udel.edu>, fountain@bach.udel.edu (Eric Randolp Benson) writes:
#In article <9301050847.aa13157@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
##
##Jim Del Vecchio writes:
###        A reliable, high mag capacity, .22 LR submachine gun would
###be quite a neat item, imo.   I wonder if there will ever be such a
###thing developed.

#In Shotgun News,Birmingham Pistol Wholesale advertises a sound supressed
#AMT Lightning, full auto and a Ruger (gak) 10-22 full auto, sound
#supressed rifle.  
#	More expensive than I can afford...


	Someone was advertizing a belt fed conversion for 10/22's and
	AMT lightnings in Machine Gun News a while ago. $XXXX If I remember
	correctly.
-c
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
From:  (MJ)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black-powder, Pyrodex or ?
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:07:31 GMT


In article <9301071310.aa08701@claudius.pica.army.mil>,
mfolenta@pica.army.mil wrote:

Mike Folenta writes: (with a lot of my editing)

#  Black
#  powder (and Pyrodex, a black powder substitute that behaves like black powder)
#  gives more of a -shove- to a projectile as opposed to smokeless powder's
# -slap-.
# 
#      Now, smokeless powder _explodes_.  It can produce -much- higher chambeX
        *********************************
# pressures (we nowadays routinely use pistol loads of 40,000 cup and rifle loads
#  of 50,000 cup!)  Black powder doesn't even come close to that.  And something
#  has to hold/contain/resist those chamber pressures - like the gun.

Flame time.  Black Powder is the explosive.  Smokeless powders and Pyrodex
aren't.  You work for the government Mike , check it out.  Smokeless
powders burn "fast".  And the wive's tale that black powder is incapable of
high pressures is wrong.  I've read that testing was done on overloading
muzzleloading rifles with pressure measurement equipment and pressures of
100,000 psi were reached.  Black powder is not very effecient.  

But I agree whole-heartedly with you that smokeless powder has no place in
a B.P. firearm.

MJ

[As if you didn't already know, my opinions are my own and not my
company's.]
From: bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Major 9
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:55:35 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1993Jan5.011937.29053@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#71773.3463@CompuServe.COM (Brian  T. Millin) writes:
#
##9x21 uses different brass, similar to 9x19 but 2mm longer and stronger 
##throughout. These are high-pressure loads for major as well, but there
#
#	I think that the 9x21 is merely longer, with no change in
#case strength.  With more initial case volume, max pressures would 
#be slightly lower, but I was also under the impression that OAL was
#about the same anyway.
#

You know, I've always wondered *why* they developed the 9x21
cartridge when the (virtually unused) 9mm Winchester Magnum
already existed (I believe I've heard it is 9x22). I'm pretty
sure 9mm Win. Mag. predates 9x21 by quite a bit.

-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's

        "If it's in the paper it must be true!" --- D. Doright
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Full auto rate of fire
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:00:00 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1ib3u0INN7j0@menudo.uh.edu>, by GWH@UH.EDU (Gregory W Hayes):
# #	A reliable, high mag capacity, .22 LR submachine gun would 
# #be quite a neat item, imo.   I wonder if there will ever be such a
# #thing developed.
# 
# A friend and I were thinking about building a .22LR gatling gun...  Just
# got to get the TMs for the feed mechanism for a chain gun, dump alot of 
# .22LR into the hopper and power up the electric drill... :-)
# 

I realize you're joking ;-{), but wouldn't this be illegal?  I understand
the hand-cranked gatling (original) is legal and some company was making
and selling them, but I don't remember seeing a price.

Just for curiousity, is there a difference between the late 1800s Gatling
and the "chain" gun that is now called a "Gatling" (other than the
electric motor).
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: wthomas@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Source of .308 ammo
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:22:18 GMT
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


After recently subscribing to Shotgun News I have found alot of
sources which sell .308 winchester ammo. I would like to hear
from subscribers, which source has been pretty good for target
ammo. I am aware of the old classical sources such as Winchester,
etc. What do the subscribers think of 1- Hansen Cartridge Company's

.308? 2-Samco Ammunition Depot's .308 from Portugal? 3- What about
the Spanish .308 win by Century arms?  Instinct tells me to
stay away from the Norinco/chinesee stuff.
From: bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Speaking of .32 H&R magnum
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:44 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1993Jan7.103339.11074@nntp.hut.fi> mjalava@lk-hp-3.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava) writes:
#In article <1993Jan5.181301.24875@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:
#
##AIYEEEEEEEEE! That was a scream of anguish. The only European .32 S&W
##autoloaders I can think of offhand are the SIG/Hamerlis (P-240?).
#
#If .32 S&W is the same thing as .32 S&W long (and always the wadcutter

Actually, 32 S&W isn't the same thing as .32 S&W Long, but you
are correct in assuming I really *meant* .32 S&W long (and
specifically mid-range full wadcutter).

#load in these autos), at least Fiocchi, Walther and Unique come to my

I'd forgotten about the Walther GSP (or is it the OSP?), but I can't
recall ever seeing a Fiocchi (in any caliber) or a Unique in 
.32 S&W long in the US. I believe I've seen Unique pocket autos
(.25 ACP, .32 ACP) at shows.

#mind, also the (now discontinued, I suppose) Sako with different
#barrel/slide assemblies for 22short, .22lr and .32 S&W long.

I never remember hearing any mention of the existence of any Sako pistols,
here in the US, either for that matter. Sounds neat though (given 
Sako's reputation for quality in rifles). Apparently, the selection of 
32 S&W long autoloaders is much better in Europe than it is here.
Thanks for the additional information.
-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's

        "If it's in the paper it must be true!" --- D. Doright
From: chrisb@wang.com (Chris Bennet)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 9mm 147gr OAL=?
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:22:43 GMT
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA

Someone mailed me yesterday (but I forgot who) and asked
what I was getting for an over al length for my 9mm 147gr load.
OAL = 1.085"
 chris