HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bkoike@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bryce Koike)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Bell vs. Linear
Keywords: bell linear
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:11:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Nov19.225238.7689@midway.uchicago.edu> fks1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>'lo.  i was just wondering at people's opinions on bell curves
>vs. linear resolution.  In terms of rolling for a success at
>an action - regardless of the mechanic - or rather assuming you
>have to roll above x to succeed, which would you prefer?
>thanks.
>
>Scaramouche 

	Bell curves.  I've got problems with them, but definitely
bell curves.  (It's somewhat interesting to see how radically a game
design is altered simply by that selection alone...)
	I have a big problem with the Xd6 curve, though...it's a
little too steep and only gets worse as you increase the number of
dice.  (Check out, say, the bell curve for 8d6...strange results, or
so I think.)  I fiddled with a 3d10 system (MUCH nicer bell curve)
for GURPS [yes, I have a very simple conversion routine], but making
characters with a 1-30 range with 16 being average (I set it at 15
for ease, but 16 is the real average) was simply too...odd.
	Percentile systems strike me as wrong.  Although I have been
thinking about a semi-linear system...
	And you haven't mentioned the Vampire (Story Teller) style
of doing things...
	(No, I don't like it.  I do think it's clever, whoever
thought of it first, but I don't feel as if it works...)

>-- 
>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------<<<
>"It is human nature, I suppose to be futile and ridiculous"
>"If the windmill should prove to formidable, I may see what can be done
>           with the wind."            -Scaramouche (fks1@midway.uchicago.edu)


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: spschure@cs.ruu.nl (Sjoerd Schurer)
Subject:  rec.games.frp.campaign
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:03:29 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science

What happened to that funny discussion about .campaign?

Anyway, has anyone ever found a scroll of wish, read it, and then heard from
the DM that there was an Immortal standing behind him as a joke, so that the
anti-magic field cancelled the effect of the scroll?


	***|I am human- I was made to be the ultimate machine    |***
	***|I am human- I have the power to realize my dream,    |***
	***|I am human- an automaton -a mindless 'technoslave',  |***
	***|I am human- I am servant to the monsters I have made.|***
	***|                                     SKYCLAD         |***

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: jbridson@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re: RPG's That Belong on Every Gamer's Shelf
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 16:24:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.122458.23999@afterlife.ncsc.mil>, acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:
> What RPG's do you feel belong on the shelves of every gamer? 

1)  TOON.    An absolute must-have.  There's simply nothing like it, and 
it's a very fun game.

2)  Torg.  The most elegant, flexible game system that I've ever seen.  Not 
so sure about their worlds, but I lvoe the base rules.

3)  Can't think of any other things that are must-haves.

IMHO, Hero is not a must-have.  It's far too complicated and 
big for some people (although a lot of people do love it, I'm sure), like 
me.  GURPS I haven't experienced, but from the on-going advocacy I think 
it's another game which only some people like.  Same goes for Storyteller.

AD&D is definitely not a must-have, IMO, as it's only one genre, and not 
very well done at that, IMHO.  The mechanics certainly don't make it good, 
and the source material varies greatly.

> -- 
> We need not fear those who do evil in the name of evil, but Heaven
> protect us from those who do evil in the name of good.
> Arthur C. Adams acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil            	<fnord>
> No, I'm not the Arthur Adams who draws comic books. Don't even ask.

Robert Bridson (using the account of jbridson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: u855271@franklin.cc.utas.edu.au (Peter Didlick)
Subject: Re: More Names
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:23:10 GMT

ingrid@helios.anu.edu.au (Ingrid Jakobsen) writes:

>In article <1992Nov18.134023.1403@news.uit.no>, dago@stud.cs.uit.no (Dag-Frode Olsen) writes:

>|> Alexia Falk, Queen of the Shadows (15)

>I thought of 'Alexia' as a name myself once. Then I discovered that 
>'alexia' = 'condition of being unable to read' (like dyslexia). The name 
>can still be used, but it's a piece of trivia worth knowing if you do...

>I've always liked  'Katisha' and 'Nanki-Poo' from Gilbert & Sullivan's 
>'The Mikado'. 'Yum-Yum' as the name of the pretty young heroine is a 
>little too much, but in the right campaign...

>Ingrid Jakobsen 		ingrid@helios.anu.edu.au

Right-on Ingrid ... And of course who can fordet the dread that will
be placed in the players minds when they hear that the 'Lord High
Executioner' is in town ... Dah  Dah  Dah  Dum!!!!

Of course any dramatic effect would probably be lost if any of the 
players had seen Eric Idle in that role....

Pete...
From: tratclif@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Tracy Ratcliff)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: RPG's That Belong on Every Gamer's Shelf
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:09:34 GMT
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept,. Athens

This is refreshing--a subject on .advocacy that's not a nasty flame war (yet).
I have a couple of nominees for supplements.

1)  Someone's already mentioned 2nd edition Runequest's _Cults of Prax_
    and _Trollpak_.  I second the nomination, but RQ3 _Trollpak_ is good too.
We still don't have an RQ3 version of _Cults_ (Why not Ken Rolston??) but
the RQ3 supplement _Troll Gods_ has some neat and strange gods.

Parenthetically, how many people found the secret message in _Troll Gods_?

2)  You may get the idea I like RQ...  My second nomination is RQ3 _Vikings_
     and/or _Land of Ninja_.   They should definitely be on your shelf if you
are interested in running a Viking or Japanese campaign in any system.  Any
GM should borrow them just to see how to _really_ write up a society.  It says
something that _vikings_ is nearly 10 years old and is still the best
supplement on the subject
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: maillet@tls-cs.cert.fr (Luc Maillet)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: This top 5 games thing
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:50:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: CERT, CS Dpt. Toulouse, France

Is this a poll or such ? Okay, I'll bite.

Games :

1) Amber : I've read praise and curses about this game. Only one thing's certain
and it's that, for us, it works wonderfully. Best RP experience I've had in ages.

2) Rolemaster : from one extreme to another... must come from the various,
highly interesting campaigns I've played in. Besides, once you know the system,
it's quite smooth ( of course, you've got to "round up" the results in most case)
And it allows for nearly all styles of Fantasy Role-playing.

3) AD&D : the Great Old One haunts us... some of my best, richest ( in terms of
character ) and most prized characters come from the ancestor. Lousy mechanics,
but long hours of fun.

4) Shadowrun : system is correct if you don't look for hard realism ( which is
just what the setting suggests ). Setting is appealing. And the various supple-
-ments are among the best I've ever seen.

5) Reve de Dragon ( Dragon's dream ). Yeah, it's a french game ( obviously, no
problem for me ). A different kind of magic, a different view of life and death,
a different idea of adventure... sadly, we don't play often.

Supplements :

1) Mythic Europe ( Ars Magica ). Very good documentation, useful hints, and a
great "feeling" for playing the game.

2) Harlequin ( Shadowrun ). I'm not often fond of ready-to-run adventures and
campaigns, but this one IS great. Intrigue, manipulation, tempo, flexibility,
it is well worth the price.

3) Dark Space ( Rolemaster ). Slimy. Gritty. Dark. Deadly. And something of a
sci-fi setting, if somewhat strange. One of the best supplements ICE ever made.

4) Cloudlords of Tanara ( Rolemaster ). This was one of the first campaigns in
the World of the Loremasters, before it was renamed Shadow World ( with - sadly -
a sharp decrease in quality ). It had the feeling of the best MERP campaign
modules, and then some. GMed 2 campaigns in it. A friend is GMing in it. We still
use it, even though 1000 years have passed on Kulthea.

5) Tied, 3 Shadowrun products : Virtual Realities, Universal Brotherhood, and
Seattle Sourcebook. I think they describe the true feeling of the Shadowrun
world : cyberspace, magic, and cities. very good, except perhaps the UB drawings.

  What can I add ? Ars Magica could compete for the top 5, but I'm still lacking
game practice. I could have added specific French supplements, but what would
have been the use... even RdD is an experiment. Language is a one-way barrier.

								Redwing
From: CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CX6L)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: RE: Names
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:01:42 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <1992Nov16.133144.23713@news.uit.no> dago@stud.cs.uit.no (Dag-Frode Olsen) writes:
>A good name could make it more interesting to play.
>(You can't name a npc minotaur king James or
etc....
>Dag-Frode Olsen

Oh, I don't know! One of the finest Minotaur PCs I ever GM'd
was named "Geoff". He was a cultured lad, wise in the ways of
literature, mathematics, etc; truly, a murderer and a scholar!
More seriously: sometimes it is refreshing to name nonhumans
and cities and things in a more mundane manner, or even in an
amusing one! Way back before I became a full-time GM, and I
actually played in a lot of games, I got sooooo sick of Elves
with Tolkien-like names no one could say, and dark lords with
goofy names like Sardius, Sargon, Demonius....bleah, puke***
Why *not* an Elf lord called Bob, or an evil demon named
Skippy? Are *you* going to laugh at smeone that powerful?
Anyway, Skippy is only funny to 20th century Earth folk:
who says a fantasy warrior won't think it's pretty cool?

________________________________________________________________________
|?| o Reality got you down?                       |?| To contact Kromm |
|?| o Require a minor, or a major, realignment    |?| write:           |
|?|   of your perception? Your belief structure?  |?|                  |
|?| o Just how do you know you can trust that     |?|   CX6L@MUSICA.   |
|?|   shrink, anyhow?                             |?|    MCGILL.CA     |
|---------------------------------------------------|------------------|
|!!!!!!> Look no further! The Temple of <!!!!!!!!!!!|"What proof do we |
|!!!!!!>   the Squid God is for *you*   <!!!!!!!!!!!| *actually* have  |
|---------------------------------------------------| for causality,   |
|   *Meditate with Doctor Kromm!                    | anyhow?"         |
|   *Discover secrets of Quantum Parapsychology!    |        -Kromm    |
|   *Use dimethyl sulfoxide in day-to-day life!     |                  |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Subject: Re: RPG's That Belong on Every Gamer's Shelf
Organization: Rice University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 20:36:41 GMT

What the hey, I'll throw in my own choices-

1) Ars Magica- By far the best magic system I've seen. Also the troupe style
play leads to a more varied set of adventures.

2) Gurps/Hero- Both quite servicable generic systems. I prefer Gurps, but it's
nice to have a system designed to be easily adaptable to multiple genres.

3) Over the Edge- I love OTE's character generation system. While I haven't
played it yet, it provides a completely different version of character
statistics that looks quite _neat_.

4)Toon/Teenagers from Outer Space- Wonderful sillyness.

5)Amber- Just because it's chock full of neat ideas. Doing stuff for character
points, the attribute auction, and "imprecise" character advancement come to
mind though.


Suppliments-

Castle Greyhawk- Funniest module I've ever read. Even if you don't play
AD&D, it's still great.

Gurps Update- OK, this has a fairly limited appeal, but it's one of the
reasons I like Steve Jackson Games. They made a lot of changes from second
to third editions, and put them all in one book, so I can keep on using my
old books with the new system. I wish more companies did that when they
changed the basic rulebooks.

The Order of Hermes- Great soursebook on how magical society's set up
for Ars Magica players.


-- 
Mike Swaim            | Canada will become the next world power
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | and they will work to ENSLAVE all the nations
Disclamer: I lie      | of your planet. -Ricardo
Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hasdtr yy['u [{}_+
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Subject: Re: Names
Organization: Rice University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:59:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.133144.23713@news.uit.no> dago@stud.cs.uit.no (Dag-Frode Olsen) writes:
>As a GM a have had BIG problem with good(??) fantasy
>names on cities, npcs, fortesses and like.
>
>It would be nice if we could help each other...
  For placenames, try a map of Scotland. It's got lots of great names. I left
my road atlas at a friend's house, so I can't post that many of them, but I
do have-
Stonehaven, near the hills of Trusta and the Fetteresso forest,
and Anensee, in the Sound of Monarch.
  For names, I've got Gurps Middle Ages 1, with tables for Norman and Saxon
names, and Ian Grimble's "Scottish Clans and Tartans." Also, most Latin sounds
cool for people who haven't had it.


-- 
Mike Swaim            | Canada will become the next world power
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | and they will work to ENSLAVE all the nations
Disclamer: I lie      | of your planet. -Ricardo
Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hasdtr yy['u [{}_+
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Character Detail
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:32:41 GMT
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University

bell@beethoven.cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell) writes:
>sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan) writes:
>>Certainly not every character will be as "powerful" as the next character - 
>>fortunately, that's not an issue in my group.  We *are* balanced in that we 
>>all play interesting characters that we want to play - and GURPS *does* allow
>>>you to do that very well.
>
>GURPS doesn't -- ignoring the rules allows you to do that.  

	I think Steffan is just giving his general plug for point-allocated 
systems in here, as opposed to random-allocated systems. 
	However, I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. I have seen plenty 
of new players get characters which they were dissappointed with, in GURPS, 
Hero, and other point-allocated systems. 

	Point allocated systems are not generally intended to all starting 
characters 'equal'. They are intended to prevent unbalanced, abusive 
characters and massively overshadowed characters. 
	My problems with point-allocated systems are when (a) the system 
disallows perfectly reasonable characters, and (b) the system produces 
characters with *similar* focusses who are marked unbalanced with regard 
to each other while being the same number of points. 

	An obvious case would be low-stat characters in GURPS. It is 
quite common, in my experience, to see a character who would cost *less* 
if he were better *in every way*. 



------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be."
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | "The future's not the same anymore."
Columbia University         | "What the hell's wrong with my langauge."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Subject: Re: RPG's That Belong on Every Gamer's Shelf
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 17:30:50 GMT

I don't believe there are any specific titles that belong on every
gamer's shelf - tastes vary too widely.  Anyone who wants to be a
well-rounded gamer, though will something in the following categories:

1. The Main Game you play.  If you play a game that covers multiple
genres, this would include not only the basic rules, but the specific
genre that is your main staple.

2. A light change of pace game, such as Toon, Paranoia, TFOS,
Monsters!  Monsters!, etc.

3. A game (or worldbook for your generic game) that is out of character
for you, whatever that might mean for you.  If you're used to playing
high-powered combat monsters, it's good to play in something where you
have no power, for example.  This is important to get you out of your
ruts now and then.  Examples might include Jorune, The Prisonor,
Bunnies & Burrows, Uplift, Old West, Call of Cthulhu, Witch Hunt,
Lost Souls, Lace & Steel, Behind Enemy Lines, etc.

4. If you are a game designer, then you need to study innovative systems
for analysis purposes - too many to list here.

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: drew@snow.geology.wisc.edu (Drew Novick)
Subject: Re: Advantages
Organization: Dept. of Geology & Geophysics, University of Wisconsin - Madison
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 20:56:12 GMT

In article <00963B48.6FF35320@abby.chem.ucla.edu> doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.185411.945@news2.cis.umn.edu>, thornley@milli.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley) writes:
>
>[stuff deleted]
>
>>In Hero, for example, there are separate stats for intellectual ability,
>>social ability, and willpower, and perception can be largely divorced from
>>intellectual ability.  It isn't perfect, but it works with a reasonable
>>number of stats.
>
>Yup.  And GURPS works with an even more reasonable number of stats.
>
AAAAAAUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHH!!  Not another HERO vs. GURPS thing.  NO!

This has been pointed out before as it comes up periodically.  Taking the
"small" view that fewer statistics are better we find that one (or as has
been supposed zero) statistic(s) would be optimal.  If you think that more
is better then again you could end up with a nearly limitless number of
them.  

Drew Novick (drew@ice.geology.wisc.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Bell vs. Linear
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 02:26:06 GMT

BTW, the only game system I know that incorporates both is the Lost
Souls/Legendary Lives system from Marquee Press.

Differences between skill levels progress linearly - that is, if you
raise your skill by 1 level, you have about a 4% improved chance to get
an average result at the skill.  This is true whether you raise your
skill from level 3 to 4 or 15 to 16 - the percentage improvement
remains the same.

But you have a bell curve for any specific skill resolution: if you
have a skill 10 (average), you'll get an average result about 28% of
the time, just slightly off average (one way or the other) result about
24% of the time, just slightly off that about 20% of the time, and so
on.  If, on the other hand, your skill is 15 (good), you'll get a good
result about 28% of the time, and just slightly removed from that (one
way or the other) about 24% of the time, and so on.

The only way they could accomplish this is with a table, though.  It's
only one table, which isn't too bad, and they put it on every character
sheet, wisely enough.  If you don't mind tables, it's an excellent
action result system - certainly better than a large percentage of the
systems you'll find out there now.  Sadly, their character creation
system is junk, though: class-based random generation - yuck.

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu (Darryl Burgdorf)
Subject: Re: Names
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 05:56:30 GMT


Todd McCall wrote:

>  Personally, I prefer my fantasy RPG to have fantasy-sounding names, and
>  names like Bob, and Skippy are too mundane (I realize that this is by
>  the standards of 20th Century folk, but that's who the GM is trying to
>  create the illusion of a fantasy world for.) 
>  
>  The advantage of Tolkien-esque names is that they give the elf a non-
>  human feeling instead of a human-in-a-funny-suit feeling, which is a
>  danger in playing non-humans...why *would* an Elf lord have a 
>  distinctly human sounding name, he/she is not a human.
> 
>  Part of this has to do with the players perspective : as a player I would
>  have trouble maintaining the "suspension of disbelief" neccessayt to 
>  keep the fantasy feel, if my GM introduce a major figure with the name
>  "Bob","Skippy" or other various 20th century appellations. It has nothing
>  to with the character except the fact that it draws the focus of the 
>  game from the character's perspective(I see a Demon lord,elf lord etc.)
>  to the player's perspective (Why did my GM name a demon "Skippy"?).
> 
>  This is all ,of course, IMHO. But I just find a fantasy game more 
>  appealing if it has fantastic sounding names, your mileage may vary.

In general, I'm inclined to agree (although SOME 'mundane human' names are
not the least bit 'mundane' or 'human' in a medieval/fantasy setting).  But,
there are some situations in which 'mundane' names can be useful.

In a campaign I ran several years ago, one of the chief NPCs was a powerful
mystic .... who happened to be a tallfellow halfling.  He was SUPPOSED to be
a character no one would take seriously.  He was a hobbit, for chrissake;
and mystics SPECIALIZE in subtlety, misdirection, and disguise.  (This is
using the Rolemaster game system, incidentally.)

So what did I name him? 

Harold.

It just made it that much harder for the players to take him too seriously,
or think of him as some 'great power', even after they'd seen evidence of
his capabilities and had learned of the extent to which he'd been manipulating
things behind the scenes.

And that was Harold's whole idea.  ;)

	Darryl


 ------------------------------------------------
| dburgdor @unmcvm.unmc.edu or @cwis.unomaha.edu |
 ------------------------------------------------

-- 

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Subject: Re: META: Is it just my reader...?
Organization: Rice University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:26:13 GMT

In article <09NOV92.13292246.0089@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CX6L000 <CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA> writes:
>...is it just our news reader here, or is r.g.f.misc
I have rec.games.frp.advocacy.



-- 
Mike Swaim            | Canada will become the next world power
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | and they will work to ENSLAVE all the nations
Disclamer: I lie      | of your planet. -Ricardo
Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hasdtr yy['u [{}_+
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: davis@cwis.unomaha.edu (James J Davis)
Subject: Re: RPG's That Belong on Every Gamer's Shelf
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:49:29 GMT


I can only choose 5 games?  Hmmm...  lesse...

(1) Hero/GURPS
(2) TFOS/Rocky and Bullwinkle
(3) Over the Edge
(4) Amber
(5) Torg

The basis for my choices is that these games take radically different
approaches to roleplaying.  I didn't list games that are very close to
each other, rather I was interested in building a broad base for 
learning.

I didn't choose AD+D, becuase there is really little to learn from
by using it as example.  When I play the game, I use other's books.  :)

I didn't choose Storyteller, as might be inferred from another thread,
becuase I *don't* believe it encourages ROLE-playing over ROLL-playing
more than any other game.  The mechanics are 2nd or 3rd rate, depending
on your personal preference, and definitely uninspired.  I'd buy it
if I didn't have to pay for useless rules.  I feel the Vampire world
should have been mechanics-less.

-james
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy