HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gfm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (George Francis McBay)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: REAL Information????
Date: 3 Sep 92 23:33:59 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <AHANSFOR.92Sep3013256@wpi.wpi.edu> ahansfor@wpi.wpi.edu (Andrew L. Hansford) writes:
>Can the new chipset be put in the 3000 somehow?

	Probably, but no easily.

>What will the new machine be configuration?
>  Other AA machines over the user range

	See below
>  IDE vs. SCSI

	IDE
>  2.1 vs. 3.0

	3.0 (V 39+)
>  DSP or not

	No, the DSP was scraped.
>Marketing?

	Do you need to ask? This is Commodore!
>How does the A600 fit with a A4000 if the 500 and 2000 are
>discontinued and a 3000T is $6000?

	Rumors of a 'new A600' with AA...I'm unsure if this is true.
>Will there be a low end console AA with a 020 for very little money?

	A4000 has no CPU on the motherboard, you can plug in CPU cards
(Like the CPU cart for A3000T-040)

>Power up options like before?
	
	I hope so.

>Price of new Machines?

	I hope they are cheap, but know they probably won't be.  Whoever
has been in charge of the Amigas pricing recently must be doing some
serious dope, the A500 and A600 are still a good "bang/buck" but the higher
end Amigas just CAN'T compete price-wise these days.  Even Apple has been
slowly lowering their prices.  Most "Amiga deals" I've seen lately are just
the same old machines repackaged with 1001 useless addons with a 
still-outragous price.

Feel free to take all my responses with a grain of salt, but I have reason
to believe they are all correct.
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:39:45 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <34760@cbmvax.commodore.com> andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
> In article <1992Aug30.224805.29041@nntp.uoregon.edu> ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug30.194513.12500@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
> >   What amazes me is this: Commodore hasn't announced anything, and you are
> >already flaming them for things they've never done. Can't you just keep your
> >mouth shut until September like the rest of us? Come on, give us a rest.
>
> Hey, that's nothing.  A couple weeks after 2.0 was released, Marc
> posted a two page rant about 2.0 Notepad.  About how terrible it was.
> And why did C= waste time on it anyway.  And why was it in the operating
> system anyway.  And so on.
>
> The only point his post missed was that there was (and is) _no_ 2.0 Notepad.
>
>
> >Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles
>

It would have been nice if a USEFUL notepad application shipped with 2.0x.
Every doc file for every PD program and even the readme's for commercial
apps SHOULD be done in NotePad, IMO.  Food for thought.

>
> 			andy
>
> --
> andy finkel		{uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy
>
> "Some people think MS-DOS is a necessary evil.  They are wrong.  MS-DOS
>  is _not_ necessary."
>
>
> Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
> I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
From: jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young)
Subject: Re: World of CBM, Pasadena
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 20:18:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.111855.14717@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>
>3) The AA machines aren't ready yet.

If developers not getting AA machines until 1993 no way C= can sell
to us.    

People going to WOC can look inside new Amigas to check for AA chips!
Many wondering why new Amigas showing LATE afternoon when most people
gone home.  BEST time for show is 10am-2pm.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Dariusz Bolski)
Subject: Re: Zorro III cards? (was: 80,000,000 pc's)
Organization: OSU, Advanced Computing Center for Arts & Design
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:54:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.115634.24515@newshost.unh.edu> pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
>I'm typing this on an EISA system right now that has an EISA SCSI
>controller and ISA video and I/O port controllers.  As far as I can
>tell, everything is running at full speed.

Wouldn't you mind to elaborate a little bit about your measurements methodology?
Could you post results of your research?

>Paul

Regards,
-- 
Dariusz Bolski     Ohio Supercomputer Center, IBM POWER Visualization System
Systems Programmer Ohio State University , Columbus U.S.
                   The Advanced Computing Center For The Arts And Design
e-mail: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu  derek@osc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 07:14:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.012037.13991@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>
>   Yes, but they also will not be able to use anybody's (not even 
>Commodore's) SCSI tape bacup system, or SCSI CD-ROM drive.  Will there be an
>IDE connector on the outside of the case?  Doubtful, as IDE cannot handle
>more than two devices in any way, and even supporting the second device 
>would be kludgy.  

This is true.  However, I don't have a tape backup or CD-ROM drive; the only
device hanging off my SCSI card is a hard drive.  I agree that one of the best
things about SCSI is that you don't need a different interface card for every
storage device - something that's caused me some aggravation in the PC world
(sorting out interrupts and I/O addresses for the damn things).  I agree that,
in that respect, SCSI is better than IDE.

But - like me, most people only have a hard drive, even though they have a
SCSI host adaptor.  Commodore's going with IDE will only influence a minority.

>   The A4000 will probably come with an expensive CPU (68040), a new and
>expensive chipset, expensive high-speed memory, etc.  If you were to do a
>poll of buyers of such an expensive system, how many of them would be willing
>to trade flexibility to save $50?  Even if 40% would be willing to make the
>trade (very doubtful that so many would), does it make any sense at all to
>subject the other 60% of potential buyers to having to pay $200 - $300 for
>a SCSI or SCSI II board just to have the flexibility that Commodore decided
>to put into the A3000 but not into the A4000?  

Flexibility means being able to add either SCSI or SCSI-2 on either a Zorro II
or III card to the system.  The user gets to decide what sort of HD interface
they want, what performance they want, and how much they want to pay.
Remember the complaints that the SCSI in the A3000 is only SCSI-1?  As I said,
giving people freedom of choice is what flexibility is all about.  All you
really want on the motherboard is the lowest common denominator, which for
hard drives is IDE.

>   They probably will, but it will be an extra-cost item no matter how you
>cut it.  An extra-cost item that is standard hardware in all current
>Macintoshes and in the Atari Falcon.  

An extra cost that most users will not need to pay.


-- 

David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
From: bruce@zuhause.MN.ORG (Bruce Albrecht)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Distribution: world
Date: 2 Sep 92 23:38:10 CST
Organization: Society to Stamp Out Bogus Organizations

In article <1992Aug31.103200.1081@msus1.msus.edu> lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (LaMonte Koop) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.064154.3811@desire.wright.edu>, fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
>>	One interesting thing I read (can remember where, but not here!)
>>	was that the PDP11  had segmented memory.  From the article I
>>	got the impression that the early Intel chips were sorts of
>>	'clones' of a PDP11 architecture and the PDP11 was largely
>>	considered a failure in computer evolution.
>
>    Well, actually if you want to go on two different tangents here, the 
>Motorola 68000 more closely followed the internal architecture of the PDP11
>than the Intel counterparts of late.  The difference is the 68000 utilized
>a flat linear memory model, while Intel utilized the segmented memory
>architecture which the PDP11 employed.  Now, what does this mean in terms
>of current processor architecture?  Not a lot really...

I think this is a gross misrepresentation of the PDP-11 architecture.  The
PDP-11 had a 64K address space, in a flat linear memory model.  Later PDP-11
models had 18-22 bit address buses and had segmented memory management scheme.
You are confusing the segmented memory management model with the Intel segmented
memory model, where the address space is actually 1M address space, but the
registers must be combined with segment registers to map to the entire address
space.


--
bruce@zuhause.mn.org
Youth is wasted on the young.
From: thompson@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Does the AmigaOS pre-emptively multitask?
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:34:35 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Aug30.170606.1070@msus1.msus.edu>, lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (LaMonte Koop) writes:
>     As a matter of fact, it does interfere with real-time operations.
> Programmers are urged to avoid calls such as Forbid() unless it is strictly
> necessary (such cases do exist, such as when traversing system shared
> resource lists, etc...so they aren't modified while you are grabbing the next
> pointer in the list (and throw yourself out in the weeds :) )).
>     AmigaOS basically has two levels of these special calls (not counting
> priority considerations).  Forbid() halts all task switches, leaving the
> calling program in complete control until a Permit() call is made.  HOWEVER,
> if the program under Forbid() ends up waiting for I/O, (in such was as doing
> a Wait() on a port or I/O device), the Forbid()'en state is "broken" until
> the I/O or other waiting situation is satisfied, at which time the state is
> re-entered.  This allows other tasks/processes CPU time while the Forbid()'en
> program is waiting.  Note that breaking a Forbid() can occur during a system
> call as well, if for some reason the system call has to do a Wait(), etc.
>     The next, more drastic level in the context is a call to Disable().
> Disable() basically stops all interrupt processing (Disables interrupts),
> and in effect also stops all task switching, as this is interrupt-driven.
> The Disable()'ed state remains in effect until a call to Enable() is given,
> or the same circumstances as with a Forbid() being broken are encountered.
> 

Does all this mean that the AmigaOS does not have pre-emptive
multitasking?  If a programmer can design his application to tie
up the system, does this mean that the system is not strictly
pre-emptive?

>                  ----------------------------------------
>            LaMonte Koop -- SCSU Electrical/Computer Engineering

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Charles A. Thompson               |  thompson@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu         |
|  University of Kansas              |  thompson@ukanvax.cc.ukans.edu        |
|  _Avid_ SkiBum                     |  OS/2 2.0 is for YOU!!!               |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Look for Recipe Pro(tm), an interactive recipe database, coming soon...   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
From: alanb@sdl.mdcbbs.com (Alan Braggins)
Date: 03 Sep 92 17:29:40 GMT
 <1992Sep2.131652.5527@ra.msstate.edu><65142@cup.portal.com> 
 <1992Sep2.231332.7170@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au><1992Sep3.040525.2537@ra.msstate.edu>
Organization: Shape Data (Division of EDS), Cambridge UK
In-reply-to: ada@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu's message of Thu, 3 Sep 1992 04:05:25 GMT

>>>>> On Thu, 3 Sep 1992 04:05:25 GMT, ada@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Sunga Rettaf) said:

> It will truly be a sad day if the 486 clones are indeed less expensive
> than a low-end Amiga.  A 486-33 motherboard with 64k cache is rapidly
> approaching the price of the A500 and will be less than the A600.  With
Here (UK) the A600 is cheaper than the A500.

> Tseng 4000 SVGA cards available for $100, IDE multifunction cards for
> $20, and other similar bargain prices, the Amiga will have a hard time
> competing.
It would be nice if the bridgeboard wasn't so overpriced as a motherboard.
--
Alan Braggins, Shape Data (A Division of EDS Ltd), Cambridge, UK +44-223-316673
   "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
 "My employer does not necessarily share my views - but I'm working on it."
From: dudley@cebaf4.cebaf.gov (John Dudley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Hello out there?
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:19:29 GMT
Reply-To: dudley@cebaf4.cebaf.gov (John Dudley)
Organization: CEBAF


Well.. it has been a few days since I've seen anyone from Commodore on
here. Do you
suppose that they're busy trying to get things together for September??
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 07:46:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.071937.5195@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.055439.20316@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>>Give me a break. The Soundblaster is a horrible sound board, 
>
>I've heard a Soundblaster Pro and IMO it compares fairly well to my
>Amiga's sound.  We had an Amiga and a clone side-by-side playing the
>same modules and you could hardly tell the difference.

Well I've already stated that the Amiga has ok, not great, sound. I had a
SB Pro for testing for a month in an MPC system. It was just awful. Now
if you said the PAS-16 or Turtle Beach's Multisound card was good I'd
agree. In fact a much better buy, and better sounding, is ATI's Sound/FX
card. It is a stereo card which is both AdLib and SB compatible. Cleaner
sound.
>
>>and full motion
>>(30 frames/sec) won't come out of Microsoft's MPC specs (at present).
>
>I've seen a software MPEG player on a 486 achieve pretty good animation.
>Not full screen though.

MPEG is everywhere except where I live. It's a ghost released by Kevin.
In any case MPEG is not part of the MPC spec. Moreover it is already
being supplanted by MPEG-II. There's nothing mystical about MPEG, and
certainly nothing PC specific about it.
 
Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: 10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JIMMY FANG)
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine
Summary: read above idea and digest....
Keywords: Attack the idea, not the person
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 07:13:32 GMT

If this thread is going to continue, perhaps people would attack ideas,
flame statements instead of calling each other boneheads, knuckleheads,
other four letter words, you sleep with your mother/brother/sister/dog and 
other such insults.

Your argument looks rather weak when you need to attack the other person.

Regards,

Jim (when's a comp.sys.atari.advocacy going to start?)


Follow-ups to comp.sys.atari.tech



Jim Fang - Bachelor of Economics (3) / B.E (3) .-_|\        Snail Mail
Monash University - Clayton, VIC, Australia   /     \       POA Box 539
InterNet  10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au     \_.-._/       Brentford Square
 E-Mail:  kroddos@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au            o     // Victoria 3131
          ece950aec3@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au       AMIGA \X/  Australia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOCIALIST: someone who has nothing and wants to share it with everyone.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: POLL : NEW MACHINE according to .advocacy 
From: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (LaMonte Koop)
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:49:42 -0600
Reply-To: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <fbyyr0k@rpi.edu>, danaf@bray1b.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.) writes:
>Okay... here goes
>
>What do I think Commodore is releasing in September? Nothing! Nothing I've seen
>is even remotely ready for release... if Commodore even TRIES to release any
>new hardware/software in September, we'll have another Toaster situation on
>our hands. If anything comes out, it will be the same A600 they are
>currently selling in Europe.

    Well, if you in fact did know what was going on in terms of new hardware
(legally) your NDA would prohibit your making such statements.

>Now, how about another census? When the new hardware/software comes out, what
>will it contain? This one, I can answer:
>
>Names: A600, A800, and A4000
>CPU  : 68040
>Loc. : motherboard, with 200+ pin expansion slot
>Flop : 880K, possibly with HD support
>HD   : IDE, with 40mb standard on Ax00, 50/100/200 on A4000
>Sound: Same, unfortunately. There are no RUMORS of a new Denise even.
>OS   : 3.0, in some form
>$$$  : 4000 - Cheaper than the A3000 for the same speeds/drive size
>       600,800 Under $1000 each, with 2 floppies and a Hard Drive

See above comment.  And Denise is not responsible for audio output, Paula is.

>other: One of the reasons I don't think C= will do anything soon is I HOPE they
>       will listen to the users and rewrite Denise to 8- or 16-bit sound. We 
>       NEED a new Denise.

    Well, again Denise has nothing to do with audio output.

>I am...
>  -Frank Dana, known (718)-(121)-(516) over as Amiuser/Doc Ami!


                 ----------------------------------------
           LaMonte Koop -- SCSU Electrical/Computer Engineering
 Internet: lkoop@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu -OR- f00012@kanga.stcloud.msus.edu
              "You mean you want MORE lights on this thing???"
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Dariusz Bolski)
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Organization: OSU, Advanced Computing Center for Arts & Design
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 20:28:01 GMT

In article <92236.142242TEW105@psuvm.psu.edu> TEW105@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug23.165205.19521@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc
>N Barrett) says:
>>
>And I still don't see how a hypercard stack counts as multimedia.  What
>mediums is it using?

Agreed.

Dariusz Bolski
-- 
Dariusz Bolski     Ohio Supercomputer Center, IBM POWER Visualization System
Systems Programmer Ohio State University , Columbus U.S.
                   The Advanced Computing Center For The Arts And Design
e-mail: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu  derek@osc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine  Re: Sydnes is gone?!!
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:52:14 GMT

In article <ZiDgqB1w164w@cellar.org> darling@cellar.org (Thomas Darling) writes:
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) self-destructs:
>
>> You and all your Atari Falcon worshipping buddies
>
>You are invited to locate one post, anywhere, in which I said the Falcon was
>better than any other computer, and quote the relevant section.

If this is the only thing that gets your goat, the other stuff must be true.

>Failure to do so will prove your level of honesty to be on par with "Read my
>lips: no new taxes."  Or, "I'll create 15 million jobs."  Or even "I will be
>the education president."
>
>But then again, that's already been proven.  Savor it, bucko.

Oh no, I've got a bad reputation.  :-(  No one believes me, oh what will
I do.  What's a matter, did you get suckered in by the A4000 post like 
the other morons?

>Thomas A. Darling \\\ Fact HQ Studio * record production * dance re-mixing


Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu





Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 03:46:07 GMT

In article <haley.715220133@unixg.ubc.ca> haley@unixg.ubc.ca (Ross MacGregor) writes:
>A4000 with IDE, you GOT to be kidding!

Unfortunately not.  Remember that it is the same motherboard C= may be
using in mid-range systems but with a different CPU.

>Ross MacGregor           |  These views are my own and can be considered 

-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
  "And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Date: 28 Aug 92 12:47:45 PST
 <1992Aug10.205532.3070@sactoh0.sac.ca.us> 
 <1992Aug11.185853.22855@ctr.columbia.edu> <BtM61A.Bs@starnine.com> <1992Aug27.161036.384@ctr.columbia.edu>
Organization: TAP, NZAmigaUG

Quoted from <1992Aug27.161036.384@ctr.columbia.edu> by jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel):

> >Big deal.  An Amiga 500 does the same.  How about with a ray trace
> >happening in the background?

> Never tried it.  Have you?  Didn't think so.

    Some combinations I have tried on the Amiga with no editor
    degradation are:

    Editor + 19.2kb file transfer

    Editor + 19.2kb file transfer + MOD player

    Editor + 19.2kb file transfer + GL player
        (the GL player (intentionally) pauses when the editor is
        active, though)

    Editor + 19.2kb file transfer + compile

    Editor + ray tracer

    I have never done (or personally seen done) even one of these
    things on a PC, despite working in an office full of PCs.

> It still isn't even close to OS/2 in terms of functionality.

    This is like saying that it doesn't even come close to duct tape
    in terms of functionality.

> >I have yet to
> >install a single driver in my A3000, and I had one of the first.

> And that's a good thing, right?

    Yes. Key phrase is "I have yet to install".

> Why would you need drivers for an OS that's so chained to specific hardware?
> If you were just a little less ignorant, you'd know that there's no need for
> drivers in a system that doesn't support device independence.

    The generic hardware comes with drivers that are already
    installed. For example, the serial.device driver comes with the
    machine. If you don't use an external serial board, then that's
    all you'll need.

    Other pieces of hardware can carry their drivers with them, and
    install themselves at boot time via AUTOCONFIG. I understood OS/2
    did have something similar to the AUTOCONFIG mechanism for
    installing new hardware. Is that incorrect?

> | Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
--
*** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG.        jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***