HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moss@cs.umass.edu (Eliot Moss)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: Re: How long cats live (was Re: Indoor cat wants out)
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:47:11 GMT
	<1992Aug14.150723.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>
	<1992Aug17.181204.1830@linus.mitre.org>
Reply-To: moss@cs.umass.edu
Organization: Dept of Comp and Info Sci, Univ of Mass (Amherst)
In-reply-to: cookson@mbunix.mitre.org's message of 17 Aug 92 18:12:04 GMT

Some people have suggested that some locations are more amenable to outdoor
cats than others (e.g., heavy traffic and no yard versus light traffic and a
yard). Since traffic is probably a major hazard, I think that is a major
consideration. However, virtually any outdoor situation has more hazards:

1) Other animals, as sources of disease, of parasites and pests, and of
   injuries from confrontations.
2) Bad things to eat, ranging from poisonous plants, to diseased animals, to
   various chemicals distributed by humans (pesticides, animal poisons, and
   antifreeze come to mind).
3) Natural and human hazards leading to falls, puncture injuries, etc.
4) Exposure to cold, heat, etc.

Most of these can be entirely prevented or substantially reduced indoors.
Every vet and reference work I have ever consulted agrees that typical life
expectancy for indoor cats is something like twice that of outdoor cats. Of
course this is an average -- your mileage will vary. In light of the
statistics, and that we had a cat die a while after getting a nasty bite from
another cat (not clear if it was the proximate cause of death, but it didn't
help him any), our cats stay in unless immediately supervised outdoors. I am
not telling other people what to do, since this is an emotional issue, but the
difference on everage life expectancy is a fact to consider.
--

		J. Eliot B. Moss, Associate Professor
		Department of Computer Science
		Lederle Graduate Research Center
		University of Massachusetts
		Amherst, MA  01003
		(413) 545-4206, 545-1249 (fax); Moss@cs.umass.edu
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: Re: Cat Growth
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:53:26 GMT
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine

In <1992Aug17.141625.647@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> bill@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Bill Ferreira) writes:

>	How long does it take a female domestic cat to grow to
>full size? My (almost one year old) cat is still only
>3/4 the size of my 3 yr. old, although she eats at least as
>much as the bigger cat.
>	We got her at 5 weeks, which I understand is very
>young to take a kitten, but apparently she had been
>abandonded by the mother. Despite her stunted appearence
>she is a voracious killer of birds, rodents etc.
>and she terrorises my other cat constantly, so I have
>no other cause for concern about her size.

>Any suggestions, comments etc. will be gratefully received.

I wouldn't worry too much about it.  Some cats are smaller than
others.  Mine, at 3.5 years old, is about 6.5 lbs.  People still think
she's a kitten.  She's in great health.

--Cindy


--
   Cindy Tittle Moore & Noisy Underfoot (bird watcher extraordinaire)

I post the rec.pets.cats FAQ (in two parts) every 25 days.  To get the FAQ:
ftp to pit-manager.mit.edu and look under /pub/usenet/news.answers/cats-faq/*
(part1, part2), or send email to mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu with
send usenet/news.answers/cats-faq/part1
send usenet/news.answers/cats-faq/part2
in the body (leave subject line empty).  Send contributions and comments
to me; send questions not covered in the FAQ to the newsgroup.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
From: eehrhard@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Elizabeth J Ehrhardt)
Subject: cat gone mad thanks you
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:24:00 GMT

I'm writing to thank all of you who offered suggestions for my Mom's cat, 
Boodle.  I just returned from visiting her for several weeks and I gave all of 
your suggestions to her.  She was quite interested, and she has decided to wait
for awhile before taking drastic steps (I'm glad!).  Anyway she's going to talk
to the Vet about epilepsy, and a possible chemical imbalance or brain tumor, 
and she's going to monitor the attacks more closely to see if there is anything
like a smell that can be associated with them.  Anyway, I really appreciate all
of your nice letters and suggestions.  I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks.
Libby
eehrhard@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
From: collene@unisql.UUCP (Collene Pearce)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: Re: cat declawing
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:27:30 GMT
Reply-To: collene@unisql.UUCP (Collene Pearce)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Aug14.102215.19048@aisb.ed.ac.uk> tina@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Christina Scott) writes:
>In article <23590@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, syearick@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Sid Yearick) writes:
>
>|> ....  I currently have 5 cats (or they have
>|> me, any way) they are all declawed (front only) and are only in door
>|> cats.
>
>Here in the UK, declawing is rare.  ....opinions on declawing omitted....
>I'm not flaming, really.  I'm just curious about your motives and want to know more.

I tried to "reply" my opinions/reasons for declawing, but it bounced.
Even tried a straight bang address (cs.utexas.edu.aisb.ed.ac.uk!tina)
and a UUNET one and they also bounced.   If you are really interested in 
genuine reasons, (rather than just dredging up the old "to declaw or not 
to declaw" wars) then perhaps you could post an email address here
or just email it to cs.utexas.edu!unisql!collene.  :-)




-- 

********************* #include <std_disclaimer.h> **********************
* A. Collene Pearce (512-343-7372, x114) * Organization: UniSQL, Inc.  *
*                                        * Austin, TX                  *
* unisql!collene@cs.utexas.edu           * 512-343-7297 or 7383(fax)   *
************************************************************************
From: gbrach@galaxy.gov.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: RE: Our New Kitten
Date: 13 Aug 92 10:30:16 -0700
Organization: BC Systems Corporation

In article <1992Aug10.131635.61@gems.vcu.edu>, ktruett@gems.vcu.edu writes:
> Ok, here's another cat-kitten introduction story.
> 
 [wonderful, long story deleted to save bandwidth..B-{)!]

Yea, aren't cats fun!

Moustache was about 14 months old when I introduced him to Pippin.  He is a
short-haired farm cat from Sudbury (I kid you not; of course, we were living
in Ottawa at the time!); black with a white tummy, white paws and white marks
on his nose that make him appear to have a moustache (as though you couldn't
guess).  He is also a wuss!  Sitting down is his cue to jumping into your lap.
He was very playful, and as I was not home that often, I thought a playmate was 
in order.

Pippin is a grey tortoise-shell tabby of unknown lineage; as a kitten he was 
fairly unremarkable, except for having huge paws, precursor to the Man-cat 
he has since become!  When I first brought him home and introduced him to 
Moustache, he went right up to the older cat, with no fear, until they were
practically nose-to-nose.  Moustache was not impressed!  In fact he hissed
and growled and his tail stood up straight.  Pippin, just looked at him with a
slightly confused look on his face:  'like what's the big deal?'  I thought 
Moustache was going to attack or at least take a swipe at the intruder, but 
eventually Pippin stepped back a step, and to my astonishment, 'Stachie ran off
and hid under the couch.

This dance went on for three days, with the younger cat running up to the older
one (always right in his face); Moustache hissing and growling and carrying on;
then when Pippin didn't just disappear, Moustache running away and hiding. 
Moustache always seemed offended that hissing and growling wasn't enough, but 
he would never escalate matters; later he would come to me and let out a very
offended yowl as though he expected me to do his dirty work for me.

Of course now they are the best of friends - they tear around the place
together; fight like true brothers and compete with each other to find new 
heights of 'terminal cutness'.  And on the few occasions that Pippin the
Adventurer has escaped from my second floor condo, Moustache has always been the
first to inform me of the escape!

Ciao!
Gabor, Moustache ('Stachie the Wuss) & Pippin (the Man-cat)

-- 
       t     Gabor Brach.	"Like the rat said:  'Keep the cheese,
    gttttt   Victoria, B. C.	 I just want out of the trap'"
gggg b t     (God's waiting			Chief Engineer Geordi LaForge
g  g b t      room)				"Where Silence has Lease"
gggg b  tt
   g bbbb
 ggg b  b	"...with a boulder on my shoulder, feelin kinda older,
 g g b  b        I tripped the merry-go-round..."
 ggg bbbb                                       B. Springsteen
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
From: phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel)
Subject: Peeing, temperamental cats
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:46:54 GMT

In article <1992Aug7.202505.12951@gateway.novell.com> lyndap@Novell.COM (Lynda Peterson) writes:
>least she is not peeing all over like she did last time we moved. Has  
>anyone else had temperamental cats that pee when they aren't happy or feel  
>threatened?

Of course.

Ghost still sprays occasionally (but thankfully nowhere near as much as at
my previous house -- he's neutered, by the way), and Oolong will pee when
he isn't happy -- usually because he is being kept in when he doesn't want
to be.

Oolong is usually only kept in after an injury where he has to be watched
and given antibiotics, and when he feels *he* is well enough will occasionally
show is displeasure by peeing in certain spots (either in the hallway or
in front of my clothes closet).  Occcasionally he will wait until I am
looking directly at him before he squats down to "voice" his displeasure.

When my wife and I took a 2 week trip to Germany, my step-daughter and a
neighbor were taking care of our menagerie (2 dogs and 2 cats plus my step-
daughter's cat), and Oolong, true to form, disappeared shortly after we left.
He's done this before and I had warned the two girls that he might do this
(we have two neighbors that feed some of the strays in the area, so he
doesn't lack for food in these situations), but they became frantic -- putting
up signs and searching the neighborhood.  Then two days before we were
scheduled to returned, he showed up again acting as if everything were normal.
Tammy (my step-daughter) didn't want a repeat of the disappearing act, so
they kept him in until our return.  Unfortunately, I temporarilly lost my
passport so my wife came home at the appointed time (with my arrival to be
a day later after getting my passport back from the taxi I had dropped it in),
and she, too, decided to keep Oolong in until I returned.

Oolong, of course, was indignant and took an opportunity when my wife had her
suitcase opened to squat down in that and leave a little sign of his
displeasure.  My wife, shall we say, was *not* amused!

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

Bubble Memory, n.:
	A derogatory term, usually referring to a person's
intelligence.  See also "vacuum tube".
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: How many cats is too many?
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 15 Aug 92 05:03:23 GMT

A beleagered Sandra F Feldman writes:
> I have 4 cats, 3 male and 1 female.  My husband has been pestering
> me to get one more female...My husband went to the shelter today
> ...and saw bunches of cute female cats, including a pair of long
> haired white twin kittens, a grey long haired kitten, and an older 
> calico.  Help!  Can I resist?  He's considering getting both
> white kittens.

I attended a city meeting recently regarding a proposed cat law.  The
community expressed itself on the proposed limit of three cats per
household.  Oh boy, did it express itself.  One citizen said, "it
should be like wives in certain Middle Eastern cultures, you should
have as many as you can afford!"

Needless to say, this brought the house down.  But the point was well
taken.  If you can afford eight or eighteen cats, and can take care of
them, and you're not a health hazard to your neighbors, well, it's
really none of the city's business.

So I say: if you can afford six cats, and you want them, have them,
and it's nobody's business but your own.  Remember the real costs of
cat ownership, though.  Vet bills for six can get expensive.  It's
hard to give a rule of thumb because costs vary so much by area and by
vet.  But don't duck the costs, figure them carefully before adopting.
That way you will be financially prepared to care for whatever number
of cats you do decide to adopt.

-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com
From: MCW102@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: Peace Lilly -- poisonous?
Date: 16 Aug 92 23:53:46 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

I have tried my current list of cat-poisonous plants and can't find
a positive or negative answer for the "peace lilly."  I would like
to get one as they are great air cleaners.  Does anyone have any info
on that particular plant? Thanks in advance.

======================================================================
M.C. Wheeland
Graduate School of Public Policy and Public Administration
======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
From: joses@cs.tamu.edu (Batman the Destroyer)
Subject: Leaving cats alone.
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:57:05 GMT


Hello cataholics,

I have a question regarding how long you can leave cats in an apartment.
We are going on vacation next week and do not have anybody to look after
our two cats.  Does anybody know how long you can leave cats in an
apartment by themselves?  (Assuming we leave them plenty of water and food).


--
	Jose Salinas		|	"Religion is the opiate of the
	joses@cs.tamu.edu	|	 masses"  - Karl Marx
	Texas A&M University	|
From: syearick@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Sid Yearick)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: Re: Anne Raver's column on cat declawing
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:08:25 GMT
Reply-To: syearick@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Sid Yearick)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.pets.cats, jeff@cns.nyu.edu (Jeff Fookson) writes:
>Anne Raver's column "Growing" (mostly a gardening column) in today's (Aug 13)
>New York Times is a touching story of the effects of having her cat declawed.
>  Jeff Fookson
>  jeff@cns.nyu.edu

Down here I don't have an opportunity to read the column, I'll have to
see if I can find it, I'm sure I will have no problem.

I have been reading this news group for a long time and have learned
a lot of valuable information.  I currently have 5 cats (or they have
me, any way) they are all declawed (front only) and are only in door
cats.  They go outside but not unattended for a variety of reasons.
I have had cats all my life some with some without claws.  They have
all been able to defend themselves against predators.  The issue of
to declaw or not to declaw is always going to be just that an issue
that will cause controversy.  If my cats were outside cats I would
never have declawed them.  I care a great deal for my babies and
take every care possible to keep them safe and would never do
any thing that would cause them pain.  I know some will say that
declawing causes a great deal of pain.  The older the cat is when
declawed the more the cat suffers.  My youngest has worked for a vet
since she was 14, and plans to attend college after graduation (93)
to become a vet, so regardless of the fact that my babes are declawed
does not (IMHO) mean that I am cruel to them.              

I bet I get flamed real good on the above, but everyone has an opinion.
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
               /|              []   syearick@oasys.dt.navy.mil
            ` o.O '            []   Sid Yearick
            =(___)=            []   David Taylor Model Basin Carderock Division
               U               []   Naval Surface Warfare Center
          ACK!THPTPHH!         []   Bethesda, Maryland 20084-5000
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][]][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
From: gt1167b@prism.gatech.EDU (Christie Shackelford)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: Re: Naming cat behaviors
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:50:16 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

I forgot one!  My cat Fermi will follow me (or anyone else
she loves), pass them, then _flop_ down right in front to 
be petted.  She'll get up and do it again, and again, and
again...

I call this the "Fermi flop".  I also sometimes call the
Ferm "Floppy Fermi".  

-- 
Christie Shackelford
gt1167b@prism.gatech.edu
Meow!
From: belld@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (David Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: Can we all get along?
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:17:56 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


Upon moving to a larger apartment, we adopted a third cat from the shelter.
Now there is frequent hissing, growling and fighting, sometimes even 
between the two cats that have lived together for the last year.  Is this
likely to last for long, and if not what can be done to ease the transition?
Organization: Housing System, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:18:09 -0400 
From: Amy Ginther <ag3b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: RE: Naming cat behaviors

>>As long as we're naming cat behaviors, how about alternate names for
>>the insane running around that has been called "the crazies"?

The Feline 500!
From: machanicm@gtephx.UUCP (Mindy Machanic)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: Re: what do you think?
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:10:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona

In article <5579@transfer.stratus.com>, kaz@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Karen Fegley) writes:
> In article <1992Aug13.205739.12574@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> jlevy@cbnewsd.cb.att.com  


> 
> On a slightly different tack, our calico has a way of popping
> straight up in the air off of all four paws at once when startled,
> the height off of the ground being directly proportional to the
> degree of startle.  We've always called this "toastering".  Do
> other cats do this?  This is the first one we've had that does.
> 
                                              
I like that name for it!

Huggy Bear does this also. We've got a toastering, sucking, cantalope-
eating paw-kneading kitten!
-- 
Mindy
*****************************************************************************************
Mindy Machanic  (AG Communication Systems/Quality Engineering, Phoenix, AZ)               
(This space available for interesting messages and the usual disclaimers...)
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: Re: Naming cat behaviors
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:40:34 GMT
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Distribution: usa
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine

In <HANNAH.92Aug19132640@pomponio.ai.sri.com> hannah@pomponio.ai.sri.com (Marsha Jo Hannah) writes:


>   > On a slightly different tack, our calico has a way of popping
>   > straight up in the air off of all four paws at once when startled,
>   > the height off of the ground being directly proportional to the
>   > degree of startle.  We've always called this "toastering".

>As long as we're naming cat behaviors, how about alternate names for
>the insane running around that has been called "the crazies"?  If
>there are 2 or more cats involved, we refer to it as "cat races".
>Therefore, by extension, for one cat, it's "time trials"---preparing
>for future cat races.  If there is mock prey involved, it's "chasing
>windmills" (in honor of Don Quixote's imaginary foes).

(BTW, I loved the term "toastering"...)

We've always called that insane running around "elevenses" since it
seems to happen mostly at about eleven in the evening and besides,
it's such an opposite behavior to the delightfully civilized British
elevenses.

--Cindy


--
   Cindy Tittle Moore & Noisy Underfoot (bird watcher extraordinaire)

I post the rec.pets.cats FAQ (in two parts) every 25 days.  To get the FAQ:
ftp to pit-manager.mit.edu and look under /pub/usenet/news.answers/cats-faq/*
(part1, part2), or send email to mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu with
send usenet/news.answers/cats-faq/part1
send usenet/news.answers/cats-faq/part2
in the body (leave subject line empty).  Send contributions and comments
to me; send questions not covered in the FAQ to the newsgroup.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
From: car@access.digex.com (Mr. Blue)
Subject: Hyperactive cat
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:34:16 GMT

Hello, I got a kitten about a month ago and frankly, Im not sure
it is going to work out. She is about 3 months old and is VERY VERY
active in the way of jumping about, pouncing, jabbing, just randomly
running through the apartment like a flash for no apparent reason, etc.

She also does not like to sit on my lap a whole lot and I cant even
move onthe couch that she doesnt jab at the covers...

Now I love cats, but I think she and I may be mismatched for each other.
I do have the option of returning her to the people I adopted her from,
but I'm not sure I want to do this yet...my general questions are:

Is this 
"

Is this normal?? I just want a lap cat that doesnt get too hyper. Do kittens
calm down after a certain time? How best should I react to her incessant
running, streaking through the place, pouncing on everything in sight, etc.

Or is this bred into her? Im looking for a mellow cat, and perhaps
getting a kitten was a mistake. Im concerend that this cat will never
settle down. Im finding myself getting irritated by her and dont know
what to do about it..Any suggestions are immensely appreciated.

Chris

Organization: H&SS Academic Advisory Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:29:01 -0400 
From: "Carol A. Buckner" <cb30+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Young Kitty/Older kitty

I've had Brandy for 7 years and am about to get another kitty tomorrow. 
Brandy is rather spoiled and sometimes jealous.  Any suggestins as to
how to help my these two babies get along?  Separate Litter Boxes, food
dishes, etc?  Help!?!
 
Carol Buckner
Carnegie Mellon University 
            
Trivia is so unimportant, but if we had none what would we talk about?
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Subject: Re: help! piggy kitty
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:24:33 GMT

fstruwe@unlinfo.unl.edu (franklin struwe) writes:
: I also owned one piggy and one nibbler.  After the nibbler died, the 
: piggy was somewhat easier to deal with.  He gets a scant 1/4 cup twice
: a day of a high calorie high protein feed (c/d Science Diet).  He 
: _hates_ this routine, but he's still fat (20 lbs) eating this.  He 
: begs and howls for food for up to an hour before meal time.  He also 
: tries to beg throughout the day if he thinks you are going anywhere 
: near his dish.  The vet informed me that I needed to discipline him by
: saying NO! and squirting him with water until he learned this was 
: unacceptable.  I tired of that quickly and just try to tune him out 
: now.
: 

I have had MUCH MUCH better luck with the opposite approach. By the time
Christopher was 1 year old, he weighed 23 1/2 lbs.  I put him on Hills
R/D to take the weight off. He's now down to a lithe (really) 18 3/4 lbs.
and he gets low calorie canned and dry food.  However, I leave dry food
out all the time, so he is never hungry.  I feed him Whiskas Expert low
calorie canned food once a day, when I get home from work. He does tend
to start asking for canned food a couple of hours early when I'm home,
but it is just *asking*, not begging and howling, and it's kind of cute.

No offense meant, Franklin, but I think you are creating a much worse 
problem by your approach. Your *piggy* thinks you are starving him, and
he's right! If I were you, I would talk to another vet. Disciplining a
cat for being hungry seems like a terrible thing to do to the poor cat.
Yikes! It sounds just like Oliver Twist!


Kathy