HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ian@spider.co.uk (Ian Heavens)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: What do you all think of the Situationists?
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:59:54 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.

It isn't customary to follow up one's own articles, but I have some corrections to and
amplifications of the following:

In article <1992Nov9.161927.13384@spider.co.uk> ian@spider.co.uk (Ian Heavens) writes:
>>	_The Revolution In Everyday Life_   -- Raoul Vaneigem, Paris, 1967
>
>This, "The Book of Pleasures" by the same author, and Guy Debord's 
>'The Society of the Spectacle' are the primary texts in book form, as 
>far as I know.  Collections include "The Situationist International 
>Anthology", ed. Ken Knabb, 'BAMN -By Any Means Necessary", by 
>Peter Stanshill and David Zane Mairowitz.  Anyone know of others?

The "Internationale Situationniste", which ran for 12 issues from 1958 to 1969, excerpts
of which are included in the above anthology, is the main primary source.
Also important is "On The Poverty of Student Life", published by the students of 
Strasbourg University in 1966 (notably for the ensuing court case relating to misuse
of student union funds).  Guy Debord also made a number of films.

>They appear to have sprung up after the 1956 Soviet invasion of
>Hungary, which destroyed an attempt to set up workers' and peasants'
>councils (anyone know anything more about this?), and are clearly
>influenced by Surrealism, Dada, and Cabaret Voltaire.  They
>were active in the May 1968 agitation in France, and as the
>Provos in Holland (I believe that Provos were elected to local
>councils).

The SI itself was disbanded in 1969.  The prime motivation behind the
1968 disturbances was the SI and the Enrag'es.  I'm not sure where
Daniel Cohn-Bendit fitted in. 

The Provos, and more notably the Kabouters (the former gained 
13,000 votes and a seat on the Amsterdam metropolitan council in 1967
, the latter 38,000 votes - 11% - and 5 seats in 1970) were too
organised to count as Situationists.

The Sex Pistols are probably the latest manifestation (Malcolm McLaren
was influenced by the SI).  I understand that they have re-formed (not
reformed) and are touring the U.S., playing the same songs 16 years later.

ian

---
	 Ian Heavens			ian@spider.co.uk                 
 	 Spider Software
 	 Spider Park, Stanwell Street		
	 Edinburgh, EH6 5NG, Scotland	+44 31 555 5166 (Ext 4347)
--
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Torturing Politicals
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Nov6.052908.29199@eff.org> <WARKENT.92Nov9131714@ltisun14.epfl.ch>
Date: 9 Nov 92 10:16:03

In American political billingsgate, it is common for those on the left
to refer to someone as "to the right of Genghis Khan" to which the
reply is to profess ignorance of "Mr. Khan's politics".  Is this an
unsuitable attempt at humor?  I await enlightenment, admitting that
I am unaware of being a relative of any of the populations Mr. Khan
(1162-1227) exterminated.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Browing too brown?
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:44:19 GMT
Reply-To: lnh@physics.arizona.edu
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner


Has anyone found *anything* Browning wrote after THE RING AND THE BOOK
to be of any value?  Except for BALAUTION'S ADVENTURE, which stalled me
2/3 of the way through, I've yet to get more than 500 lines (if that)
into any one of them.

(One might also ask similar questions of EBB and AURORA LEIGH, but she
did manage a few palatible stuffs afterwards.)  (I forget what, tho'.)

	the testy little Mr. E-----
--

LNH@physics.arizona.edu   \  In the deserts of the heart 
sometimes a Wombat         \ Let the healing fountains start  -- Auden
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.motss
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: PUTTING ON THE RITZ by Joe Keenan
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:53:39 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books

[Followups directed to rec.arts.books.]

                     PUTTING ON THE RITZ by Joe Keenan
              Penguin, 1992 (1991c), ISBN 0-14-014989-9, $10.
                     A book review by Evelyn C. Leeper
		      Copyright 1992 Evelyn C. Leeper

     Life in New York will never be the same.  First there was Gilbert and
Moira's wedding.  Not that they actually loved each other, or could even
stand the sight of each other, but they did have a lot of rich step-
relatives who could be counted on to be generous with the presents and they
had one trait in common--greed.  But that story was all told in BLUE HEAVEN
(which you should run out immediately and read), so I'll stick to PUTTING ON
THE RITZ here.

     Philip Cavanaugh (Gilbert's best man) and Claire Simmons have just had
a Broadway flop--through no fault of their own, I should add, though since
Philip is the narrator his opinions should perhaps be viewed with some
suspicion.  But Gilbert, ever helpful, has found them a new job--writing and
arranging the music for a rich social matron's singing debut.  That it is al
a cover for having Philip try to dig up some dirt on the matron's husband
for the editor of a rival culture magazine to use in their feud is a minor
detail, as is the fact that what the matron makes up in money she lacks in
talent.  Philip knows he shouldn't get involved--as he says, "I ... said [to
Gilbert] that, while I had no desire to hurt his feelings or mar his delight
over his new project, I felt nonetheless compelled to remind him that he was
born under a malignant star, that everything he touched ended in sorrow and
weeping, and that any person so bereft of reason to assist him in one of his
ventures should first consult a good dentist, as prolonged and intense
gnashing of teeth might be confidently expected."  Then Philip meets
Gilbert's sponsor for all this, and sanity flies out the window as love (or
at least lust) comes through the door.  Of course, this makes him Gilbert's
rival for this man, so their teamwork in this somewhat dubious plot is made
even shakier by each of them attempting to outdo the other and so gain the
prize.

     I had claimed that BLUE HEAVEN was the funniest book I had read in
years, and PUTTING ON THE RITZ is every bit as funny as its predecessor.  I
wholeheartedly recommend both of them.

Evelyn C. Leeper   |   +1 908 957 2070   |   att!mtgzy!ecl or ecl@mtgzy.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr)
Subject: Re: Cormac McCarthy
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:13:16 GMT
Summary: pickin' a fight on the net

In article <0ezdgh200WBNI2pn9V@andrew.cmu.edu>, dr3u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Daniel Read) writes:

> Nothing is unarguable, although some arguments are less convincing than
> others.  Consequently, if we want to discuss Tom Maddox's obstreperous
> claim we must treat it as if it didn't contain the hedge.  That doesn't
> mean we can't argue about appropriateness, but only that the fact that
> we CAN argue does not by itself end the argument.

	ob strep er ous adj [L obsterperus fr. obstrepere, to clamor
	against ... ] 1: uncontrollably noisy: CLAMOROUS 2: stubbornly
	defiant: UNRULY  syn see VOCIFEROUS

... so I don't think so. Try one from this synonomy found under
"belligerent":

	syn BELLICOSE, PUGNACIOUS, QUARRELSOME, CONTENTIOUS: BELLIGERENT
	implies being actually at war or in an actively hostile mood;
	BELLICOSE suggests a disposition to fight or to start a fight;
	PUGNACIOUS suggests a disposition that takes pleasure in personal
	combat; QUARRELSOME stresses an ill-natured readiness to fight
	without good cause; CONTENTIOUS implies perverse and irritating
	fondness for arguing and quarreling.


Just some constructive criticism :-)

Lew Mammel, Jr.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: parson_r@cubldr.colorado.edu (Robert Parson)
Subject: Re: GENIUS: Life/Science of Richard Feynman
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:50:15 GMT

In article <97490@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
> 
> Here's a complimentary story about Gell-Mann, with a key Feynman bit.
> 
> Wilson was starting graduate school at Cal Tech, and was told by his
> father to look up either Gell-Mann or Feynman for thesis work, and ask
> them what they are working on currently.  So he knocks on Gell-Mann's
> office, and asks him what he's working on now, and Gell-Mann tells him
> about how he's now trying to solve the 3-dimensional Ising model.
> Wilson thanks him, and then knocks on Feynman's office, asks him what
> he's working on now, and Feynman says "nothing".  

 OK up to here (it's in Wilson's Nobel Lecture). 

> So naturally Wilson
> ended up working on the 3-dimensional Ising model--and his solution
> was the heart of his own 1982 Nobel winning work.

 But this is wrong. Wilson worked with Gell-Mann, but on quantum field theory.
 He didn't get back to critical phenomena until about 15 years later. And
 neither he nor anyone else has "solved" the 3d ising in the sense of getting
 an analytic solution (as Onsager did for the 2d case) although there are
 plenty of accurate numerical solutions.
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: [UPI] Library attacked for buying Madonna's Sex book
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:51:57 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

I think an overlooked issue here is, in these days of shrinking
library budgets and libraries having trouble getting the books
they want and need, why are libraries wasting their money on
an expensive piece of pornography by Madonna. I would certainly
object if my town library bought 4 copies of the book, 
particulary since they never seem to have the budget to
keep their history section, philosophy section, computer section,
literature section, physics section, etc. up to date. In some
topics, they are missing what should be essential works for any
reasonable library.


--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Et in Arcadia ego
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:35:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: morrow.1dmb12INNomr
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Miss Henderson writes:

	Hey Doc, you failed to describe that part of the evening in which
	I hit a policeman.  A Tyler Cranshaw-style adventure, to be sure.
	Though the policemen in N'orlins are more agreeable than those in
	Dallas and thus I avoided a night in jail, unlike poor Ty.

Be advised that its a fairly good idea to wear a catcher's outfit when
squiring Miss Henderson.  Like Teddy Roosevelt she carries a big stick,
in her case a black Reggie Jackson Autograph Louisville Slugger, which
she chiefly uses to tap the shit off her boots. I'm still not sure why 
she had me carry a rosin bag.

	Or had you left by that point?

No, I was hiding behind that muffuletta you insisted I eat. I'm never
embarrassed, but caution is my middle name.

							Fido
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: A Literary Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:07:07 GMT
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

> So what other authors and novels do you think of in this light?  You 
> know, not just a story with ups and downs or exciting moments, and not 
> just a character who lives through some sort of nightmare, but anguish 
> and psychological tension where you experience frisson after frisson, 
> find yourself drained and mentally perspiring when it's over, and 
> haunted by it effect for days...

Philip K. Dick is good at that.  Say, RADIO FREE ALBEMUTH or MARTIAN
TIME-SLIP.

If you like it explicitly mythic, there's the dyptich MYTHAGO WOOD and
LAVONDYSS by Robert Holdstock.  These really have the frisson after
frisson as he actually touches just about every archetype there is over
the course of these two novels.

DAYS OF ATONEMENT by Walter Jon Williams is not as extreme as Mishima
or Dostoyeveski, but I think it fits your description.  And besides,
it's d*mn good.

Many people didn't like Joan Vinge's WORLD'S END as much her THE SNOW
QUEEN, but I did, while recognizing it wasn't quite as good.  But it
exactly fits your description.  Come to think of it, so does THE SNOW
QUEEN.

Right now I'm in the middle of one that, if it keeps up, more than
counts.  I've got that pit in my stomach, sinking and sinking, as I
watch the plot symbolically descend into the underworld.  No just the
plot -- this is definately the hero quest in another guise.  It's Greg
Bear's ANVIL OF STARS.  It's the sort that, if I put it down, I walk 
all the way around it for a while before I pick it up, but if I do, I'm
lost in it, and can't put the Nantuckett sliegh-ride through razor
blades down again.

Bear's QUEEN OF ANGELS was similar.

Anything by Tim Powers.

	Larry "More later" Hammer
--

LNH@physics.arizona.edu   \  In the deserts of the heart 
sometimes a Wombat         \ Let the healing fountains start  -- Auden
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mritchie@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael S Ritchie)
Subject: Casablanca book
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:38:10 GMT

A while back, there was a brief thread on Casablanca, and
I mentioned a great book by Frank Miller called Casablanca:
As Time Goes By.  I got some e-mail asking for more info, but
a couple of my outgoing missives got bounced back to me, so
one more time:
The book is published by Turner Publishing, the price (trade
paperback) is 19.95, and the ISBN is 1-878685-17-1.

If anyone has info about the 3 or 4 other Casablanca books
which were released this past summer to celebrate its 50th
anniversary, e-mail me or post.  I've seen the titles, I want
to know if any of them are worth purchasing.
Thanks,
   Michael
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.horror
From: spb0457@venus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: Algernon Blackwood
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:43:00 GMT

KYLE CASSIDY writes...
>i was just reading one of his books this weekend. what i can remember from 
>the bio it little. i know that as a young man he attracted the attention of 
>some weathy benefactor who liked his writing and set him up so that he could 
>penn a bunch of short stories -- the most fameous of which is probably "the 
>doll" (because they made a night gallery episode out of it). H. P. Lovecraft 
>said that Blackwood's "The Willows" was the best supernatural story written 
>in english. He lived to be fairly old. If you're really interested I can 
>type in the bio from the book....
>kc

+-------------------------------------------SubG----------------------------+
[memory in flashes and pops]

Wasn't Mr. Blackwood in the Golden Dawn, or the O.T.O., or one of them there
`secret' societies that roughly everyone (especially if you were an Englishman
and a writer) was involved in 'round the turn of the century?











-SubG

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: The Lion For Real -or- All you never wanted to know about Leo
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:08:35 GMT


spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:
 
> Generally speaking, I don't catch the header of a post before I read it, so
> I usually don't know who the writer is until I hit the bottom and the sig.
> Usually the tone, calibre and style of the writing clues me in, so by the
> time I reach the end of the text, I already know or have a damn good idea
> of who I'm dealing with.  In this case, I had composed roughly half of my
> reply before I caught the name, and couldn't have been further off base.
 
> Is r.a.b. being ghostwritten these days?
 
Interesting.  I didn't find it atypical of Fiona's articles.  In fact, had
I not read the header, she would have been my first guess.  Granted, she
is more likely to ask about sharks in literature than lions -- but they
both have great big teeth.
 
 
Mark
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The trouble with gurus
Date: 12 Nov 1992 15:17:50 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Fiona Webster writes:

	Francis Muir writes:

		My candidate for Most Pompous Ass among the 
		self-appointed gurus would be Joseph Campbell.

	Gosh, coulda fooled me.  I didn't know he was a guru.  Maybe 
	guru-ness is in the eyes of the beholder.  I have found 
	Campbell's belated lionization by publishing companies and 
	TV-show producers to be most helpful to those of us who
	have long wanted to see the images of the world's mythologies.
	Before Campbell's unfinished (he died while working on it, and 
	got five volumes completed) _Historical_Atlas_of_World_Mythology_ 
	came out, for example, I had only seen drawings and poor 
	photographs of the Venus of Laussel: Campbell gives it a glorious 
	10" by 15" photo, beautifully lit so that shadows pick out the 
	details in the limestone.  Of his video efforts, I prefer his 
	lecture series to the Bill Moyers interviews...

You almost make my point. Why did he give up working on the Atlas? Was
it because he died, or was it in order to be lead into temptation by 
Moyers and become a guru?

							Fido
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hlaufman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Harry B Laufman)
Subject: Re: Arthur Rimbaud, is that you again??
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:01:29 GMT

I offer two of my efforts:



                        The Tricksy Girl

          In the twilight lighted tavern, the air
          Heavy with varnish and fruit; languid
          I enjoyed some sort of, I think a Belgian dish,
          And sprawled back in my grand chair.
          
          As I ate, serene and calm, hearing the clock,
          The kitchen door opened with a burst of wind;
          -The servant girl entered, for no apparent reason,
          Her scarf billowing, her hair innocently coiffed.
          
          As she sauntered by, her little fingers trembled
          Against her pink and white peach velvet cheek.
          She stopped, her childlike lips pouting,
          
          Adjusted the plates beside me, to ease my mind.
          - Then, just like that, - to snatch my love of course,
          She cooed "Touch here, I have a chill in my cheek..."

                             Jean-Nicholas-Arthur Rimbaud

                             translated by Harrington B. Laufman
                        ---------------------

                       At the Cabaret-Vert
                                at five in the afternoon

          For over a week, I had torn my high top shoes
          On the gravel roads.  I was entering Charleroi.
          - At the Cabaret-Vert: I ordered bread
          With butter and ham that was cooled.

          Grateful, my legs straighten beneath the green
          Table: I study the tapestry patterns, so artless,
          So innocent.  - And such a thrill    
          When the girl with the huge tits and the lively eyes,

          - That one, she's not afraid of a kiss! -
          Giggling, brought me the bread, the butter,
          And warm ham, on a painted plate,

          Ham, pink and white, the taste of garlic
          Clove, and filled my beer mug so its foam
          Is gilded by late day's sun ray.

                       Jean-Nicholas-Arthur Rimbaud

                       translated by Harrington B. Laufman
                    ----------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel)
Subject: A Literary Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 17:28:44 GMT

I just finished reading Yukio Mishima's (one of my favorites) "Thirst for
Love".  It was terrific, and once again showed Mishima in his element.  He
was a writer of great prose, whose life and works repeatedly played out
several of the same themes.  He was a vocal advocate for Japan's returning
to the Emperor System after WWII, had his own private little army (which 
received training from Japan's military), openly bisexual, a body builder,
kendo master, scholar of Western Literature, cultural icon, and one day, in
1970, he (with 4 of his young army followers) stormed an army general's office, 
took him hostage, forced the garrison to assemble below his window, and after
railing at them for 15 minutes for not having restored the Emperor and Japan, 
committed seppuku in the general's office; his lover whacking off his head.
He was 45.

If you have not read any of his novels or short storis yet, I think you're in
for a treat.  His works often feature characters who, tortured by personal demons,
are pushed to the extremes of experience; their destinies culminating in some
personal apocalypse, both feared and longed for, which brings relief (for reader
and characters alike) from the often unbearable tension that is built up between 
moments of aching beauty and raw emotion. 

Along those lines, I recommend Thirst for Love, Temple of the Golden Pavilion,
and his tetrology The Sea of Fertility (Spring Snow, Runaway Horses, Temple of
Dawn, and Decay of the Angel) - which he finished the morning of his suicide.
And if you're interested there is a great movie about him and his work called 
"Mishima" - rent it.  It features some great dramatizations of some of his 
work.

While I sat last night, haunted by this latest book, my thoughts turned to other
books and authors that provided similar experiences - this sort of Mr. Toad's 
Wild Ride experienced by the character(s).  I first thought of Dostoyevsky (Crime 
and Punishment, Karamazov Brothers, The Idiot, The Double, etc), and then Robert
Penn Warren (All the King's Men, At Heaven's Gate), Alfred Doblin (Berlin
Alexanderplatz), even Balzac (specifically Vautrin in A Harlot's Progress aka 
A Harlot High and Low), and others.

So what other authors and novels do you think of in this light?  You know, not
just a story with ups and downs or exciting moments, and not just a character
who lives through some sort of nightmare, but anguish and psychological tension
where you experience frisson after frisson, find yourself drained and mentally
perspiring when it's over, and haunted by it effect for days...

..this is what I crave...

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books