HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sph0301@utsph.sph.uth.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Project B.F.D. (was: An apology)
Date: 18 Dec 1992 15:39:36 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Texas School of Public Health

In article <18DEC92.01304939@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>I've run into several people via e-mail who read this list and never post
>anything to it, even though they appear to be intelligent folks with
>interesting opinions of their own.  I've asked them why this is.  They all
>say something to the effect of, "because some of those people who constantly
>post will jump all over you, and it's just not worth it."  I ask them why
>they read this list in the first place, if that's the case, and they say
>"because once in a while, between the personal chat and the flames and the
>insults, someone might say something interesting about books."  Gosh, what a
>concept!


Exactly why I continue reading this list but seldom contribute anything...
^^^^^^^

Lurking in the shadows,
kate
From: yamauchi@ces.cwru.edu (Brian Yamauchi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Generations (was Re: Generation Gap (Gen X vs. boomer), 13th-gen)
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:58:19
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
	<YAMAUCHI.92Dec17005015@yuggoth.ces.cwru.edu>
	<1992Dec17.095939.26743@nevada.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: yuggoth.ces.cwru.edu
In-reply-to: wwhitman@nevada.edu's message of Thu, 17 Dec 1992 09:59:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.095939.26743@nevada.edu> wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE) writes:

>I find it interesting that my brother and I, with only three years dif-
>ference between us, are of completely different mindsets. I'm 28, and
>a classic baby-buster, cynical about everything, living at home, con-
>cerned that there will never be a job for me (despite my gainful em-
>ployment as an English instructor here and in other places for the last
>six years). My brother, on the other hand, is interested in business, 
>has faith that Reaganomics will continue to protect his investments 
>despite the change of governments, saves his money, plans to get married,
>etc. The only strange part is that he, acting like a baby boomer, is 
>actually more a buster (in a generational sense) than I am, because he's
>three years younger than I am.

Actually, he sounds more like one of Coupland's global teens (from
_Shampoo_Planet_)...

On the other hand, this may just show that generational differences
are a small factor compared to individual personality differences.

>If there is any generation that can see that the baby
>boomers are emporers without clothes, it is the busters. And the reason
>busters are cynical is because they do believe in the ideals of the 
>sixties; holding boomers up to it, though, they find the boomers want-
>ing.

Well, some busters are "60s liberals", but some aren't.  I've known
more Republican busters than boomers.

The difference seems to be (at the risk of throwing out one of those
overgeneralizations I mentioned before :-) that busters who are
materialistic tend to be more honest about it.  If one likes European
cars and high-end audio, a buster will say "I want a Porsche 928S with
an Alpine stereo system and _good_ speakers" while a boomer will say
"The only reason I bought this Volvo was because of it's terrific
safety record -- see how nicely the child seat fits in here.  If it
weren't for the kids, I'd be just as happy with an old VW... really,"
as he inserts a Dylan CD into the player...
--
_______________________________________________________________________________

Brian Yamauchi			Case Western Reserve University
yamauchi@alpha.ces.cwru.edu	Department of Computer Engineering and Science
_______________________________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Git (was re: Et in Arcadia ego)
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:52:35 GMT

 
 
gwr@hedonist-1.lanl.gov (Graham W. Redgrave) writes:
 
>        - habitual use of four-letter epithets leads quickly to a laziness
>          of usage and a lack of verbal imagination, which, to my mind,
>          is the singularly most wonderful gift we are given after life
>          itself (What if Adam, naming the animals as they proceeded by him,
>          could only think of names like "tall motherfucker," "slimy
>          bastard," etc.  Granted, it would make taxonomy somewhat easier,
>          but I don't think the trade off is worth it)
 
 
I've found that "foul" language is most common among those who value
language the least, and those who value it the most.  For the former,
it is indeed from laziness and lack of imagination.  For the latter,
they are simply words which can be used to punctuate and accentuate.
 
 
Mark
 
 
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan)
Subject: Re: excellent reading!
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:07:58 GMT

fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:

>Heather Henderson writes:
>>Hey, I bear no malice toward any of you folks, even after being told to "fuck
>>off and die".  I just think you're an amusingly self-absorbed little clique. 

>Ahh, now we're getting somewhere...would you care to elaborate on those
>feelings, Ms. Henderson?

This is an issue of facts rather than feelings.  The in-crowd of rec.arts.books
is unquestionably a self-absorbed little clique.  Granted, whether or not 
one finds this amusing is an issue of feelings.

--
Paul Callahan
callahan@cs.jhu.edu
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: alt.fan.catch-22 (Was: Re: PROPOSAL: alt.fan.anne-rice)
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:36:06 GMT
Organization: nope

In article <1992Dec14.182409.28189@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.144837.27394@crd.ge.com> kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover) writes:
>>
>>I used to think Catch-22 was funny.  Then I got a job that took
>>me to an Air Force Base.
>
>Right.  And then you found out how true it all was.  (I'm curious.  What
>Catch-22's did you personally encounter?  Are the Air Force brass still
>modeling themselves on Generals Dreedle and Peckem?)

Actually, I had very little to do with the brass (although there
was one incident that involved me very briefly with some
high-level Luftwaffe (or whatever they called West Germany's AF
then) types.

Basically, the entire experience was just specific applications
of the general principle:  regardless of the policy of the
organization to which both you and your boss belong, you must do
what your boss tells you to.  Which can be manipulated in your
favor, if you have a good boss, btw.

And I did have the pleasure of working with one ex-PFC
Wintergreen type.  Chick was a crew chief for one of the
airplanes.  Chick was great.  Chick didn't care how many
stripes were on his sleeve.  He didn't care about base
privileges, he didn't care about pay rates, he didn't care about
how many 5 and 6 stripers thought he was a pain in the arse.  All
he cared about was his airplane being Fully Mission Capable.

-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Ngaio Marsh info requested
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:58:01 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

bmiller@lunatix.uucp (Barry Miller) wrote:
> [Ngaio Marsh's] first name is pronounce nye (as in "hi") o.

That's how most pakehas (white New Zealanders) pronounce it.  The correct
Maori pronunciation has the initial consonant the same as the "ng" in
"sing", and the vowels of the following diphthong somewhat more clearly
separated than in the usual English "eye" sound: "nga-i-o".

Incidentally, the actress Nyree Dawn Porter's name was "Ngaire" before she
left NZ; pronounced analogously, with the "e" as in Spanish.

If this leads to utter incomprehension on the part of bookshop and library
staff when you try to get her books, you should be grateful.  There are
dozens of good writers from NZ to read before you start scraping the bottom
of the barrel with hacks like Marsh.  For a Christmas (or perennial)
recommendation: the Collected Stories of Frank Sargeson - obviously
influenced by Hemingway in their laconic style but a *lot* better - or
"Tama" by Bruce Stewart - an angry collection about Maori life on the
receiving end of institutional racism.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: ebp@cmb00.larc.nasa.gov (Ed Parlette)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,misc.books.technical,alt.internet.services,comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Author ID Request
Date: 18 Dec 1992 13:53:07 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton VA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmb00.larc.nasa.gov


	I would like to find the name of an Austrian author that my
wife is curious about. Unfortuneately, she can only remember the 
following about him:

	1. He died recently.

	2. A play of his is currently running in London.

	3. He was not very popular in Austria because he considered
	   the Austrians to have been willing allies of Hitler.

Thank you for any help you can give us.

Ed Parlette
ebp@cmb30.larc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: davidf@golem.waterloo.on.ca (David J. Fiander)
Subject: Re: A modest proposal (was: Git)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:22:55 GMT

>> > "Knickers in an uproar": what a splendid phrase!!  Even though we Yanks
>> I've always heard it as "Don't get your panties in a bunch."
>Here in Canada I hear it as "Don't get your knickers in a twist".

>Any other variations on this?

Well, _I've_ always heard "Knickers in a knot", but then Canada
is so big, it's not surprising that there are regional variants.

(Hint: I live an hour's drive from the University of Western
Ontario)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE)
Subject: Re: Books with a sense of humor (was: A modest proposal) 
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:07:43 GMT

Paul Andresen writes:

>Show me that trick, she said. The one that makes me scream.
>
>Attribution (I think) to Skinny Puppy, an otherwise dreadful band.
>
Actually, it's The Cure. "Just Like Heaven" off _Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss
Me_. Not an otherwise dreadful band: some of their songs aspire to ex-
istential angst and fail miserably, but others are just loud and happy, 
and succeed famously.


___________________________________________________________________________
Michael Wise 	(wwhitman@nevada.edu)	UNLV English

"Now I want you to tell me just one thing more. Why do you hate the South?"
"I dont hate it," Quentin said quickly, at once, immediately; "I dont
hate it," he said. I dont hate it he thought, panting in the cold air, 
the iron New England dark: I dont. I dont. I dont hate it! I dont hate it!
				--William Faulkner, Absalom! Absalom!



Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re: comprehensible posts
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 16:28:55 GMT

John McCarthy writes:
	
	Not only are they probably sensible, but it has been probably verified
	that they are comprehensible by their intended recipient.




A rarity in r.a.b. land.



William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Wandering through a bookstore at lunchtime.
Date: 14 Dec 1992 17:00:54 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

William R. Smith writes:

	I was in Books, Inc. in the Stanford Shopping Center yesterday
	close enough to lunchtime to count.  While I was browsing thru some
	cookbooks an older, woman clerk announced in a loud voice to no one
	in particular, "I can't help her if she won't follow me."

Perhaps Mr. Smith -- like the customer -- did not follow the store clerk's
meaning.

							Fido
From: jjh00@diag.amdahl.com (Joel Hanes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: All I want for xmas
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:32:53 GMT
Reply-To: jjh00@diag.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation  Sunnyvale California


  wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith) writes:
>
>
>		W I L L I A M ' S   B O O K   L I S T			  Dec 92
>		-----------------   -------   -------
>
>
>
>The Third Chimpanzee		Jared Diamond		anthrop. essay
>
  a fine book, reasoned and thought-provoking, recommended to
  anyone interested in what it means to be human.  should
  be required reading for all posters to soc.men, soc.women,
  and soc.feminism

>
>Ragtime				E.L. Doctorow

  OK, good stuff, entertaining, but much weaker in language and
  in characterization than _Loon_Lake_ by the same author, which
  I note is again available in book stores.

---
Joel Hanes
From: ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Arghh! Barth Shmarth!
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:35:18 GMT
Organization: Johnson Hunter Limited

In article <1g7btaINNo42@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel) writes:
>
>Nope, Lindy...it's just one that has Sherry-baby in it. Please
>recall (if I only knew the name) the collection of novellas
>that JBrth put out after Giles GoatBoy. She and her little sister
>(Dunadzade??) are in that one...

Lost in the Funhouse, as i recall.

Alan


-- 
Alan Hunter
Johnson Hunter Ltd
Isle of Islay, Scotland
A.Hunter@dunaad.co.uk          fax: +44-496-2336         voice: +44-496-2286
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,news.groups
From: staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507))
Subject: Re: Call For Discussion: rec.arts.books.reviewed
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:26:51 GMT

>>>Is it worthwhile to ask for two groups, say, one for fiction and
>>>the other for non-fiction?
>
>>Please, no!!  Where would we would-be essayists who like to read
>
>As long as we're discussing a split of any sort, the split I'd like to 
>see is rec.arts.books, and rec.arts.books.chat (though I'd vote "yes" to
>rec.arts.books.reviewed).  I don't mean this as a snide remark; I'm quite 
>serious.  I have nothing against the lengthy non-book discussions, but it 
>would make my reading more enjoyable if they were sent elsewhere.  I don't 
>just mean flame wars.  I found the cozy little "spinster" discussion rather 
>irritating too, after it continued for more than a week.  

I would support the rec.arts.books and rec.arts.books.chat idea as well.
It's not that the ongoing discussions particularly bother me (though some
do degenerate _far_ away from the book subject :-), but the overall
volume is a problem.  When there's too many unread articles, I just do
a catch-up (i.e. mark everything as "read") to start from a clean slate.
I hate to do that though, because I don't want to miss new book info/topics
that get buried in all the discussions.  If rec.arts.books became a lot
sparser, this might be a good place for reviews.

>I feel that such a split would be a clear improvement.  I'd like to know
>how others feel.

That's how I feel!

Ken
---
staffan@serum.kodak.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: GWEISS@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU
Subject: Borgmann
Organization: UNC Charlotte
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:30:18 GMT

A number of years ago (late '60s, early 70s?) there was a writer by the name
of Dimitri (or Dmitri) Borgmann.  He wrote a number of things, including a
couple of titles on language and word-puzzles.  He had a wife, Iris, and a
teen-age son, Keith.  They lived in Dayton, Washington.  Anybody know whatever
happened to him/them?
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: A modest proposal (was: Git)
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:29:45 GMT
Organization: nope

In article <9212161915.AA21336@lib.uwo.ca> Margaret Martin Gardiner <gardiner@lib.uwo.ca> writes:
>
>> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu (Heather) writes:
>>  
>> > "Knickers in an uproar": what a splendid phrase!!  Even though we Yanks
>> > would use the word "panties"...
>>  
>> I've always heard it as "Don't get your panties in a bunch."
>>  
>> Mark
>
>Here in Canada I hear it as "Don't get your knickers in a twist".
>Any other variations on this?

I first heard it as "knickers in a knot", which has a certain
alliterative allure.

I have, on occasion, worn legged garments known as knickers,
surmounted by a jacket with a croiseau (crotch strap), and
believe me, getting things knotted up is not what I want, at all.



-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan)
Subject: Re: Call For Discussion: rec.arts.books.reviewed
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:13:13 GMT

sph0301@utsph.sph.uth.tmc.edu writes:

[about a split into rec.arts.books and rec.arts.books.chat]

>Agreed!  It's disheartening to see a list of 60-70 postings and then find
>that a large percentage of them are personal discussions among a small group 
>of people on a non-book topic and which could just as well be carried on
>off-line... usually makes me feel like I've wandered into the middle of
>a private conversation.

What started me thinking about this division was the comment by Heather,
about the "amusingly self-absorbed little clique" (though she responded in
e-mail that she was not in favor of a division).  I've been reading this 
group for years, mainly because I want to find recommendations of books I  
might be interested in reading.  While most of the non-book postings are 
high-quality by Usenet standards (hmm... this phrase ties into another
thread, but anyway), I'm usually not as interested in them.  I realize that
many people are.  The newsgroup serves as a sort of coffeehouse for them, 
and that's perfectly fine.  However, the new reader comes in expecting to read 
something about *books*, and instead finds, oh, details about Mark Taranto's 
Catholic upbringing (quite different from my own Catholic upbringing, BTW, which
I'm tempted to bother all of you with one of these days), or some fairly
insightful comments about the distinction between a bimbo and hussy (I must
admit I had never considered the nuances--I wonder how "floozy" fits into 
the scheme.).  The point is that I find the division to be the most natural
in the world, and anyone who thinks it a bad idea is, well, probably
a member of the "self-absorbed little clique."  I have nothing against an
electronic coffeehouse; I'd be an avid lurker there as here.  I just wonder 
if it is not a little misleading to name such an animal "rec.arts.books." 

Now, rebuttals to specific objections: 

Some say the volume is too low.  I've typed "cd /usr/spool/news/rec/arts/books" 
and I see 414 articles posted since Dec 14.  This is low volume?  Compared to 
alt.sex, maybe, but by civilized standards I'd say the volume is high enough 
to merit a split.  Perhaps the claim was that the volume of book-related
postings is too low to merit a separate group.  That's a more plausible
theory, I admit.

Some say no one would use it anyway.  I admit that this is true of a lot
of Usenet groups.  I do not feel it applies here.  There are so many
responsible, intelligent, *reasonable* people who post here, that I trust
them to decide which group would be more appropriate for their discussions.
I feel that if a chat group existed, and it wasn't misinterpreted as an
electronic ghetto, then the division would be amazingly smooth (again,
by Usenet standards, at least).

--
Paul Callahan
callahan@cs.jhu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ks@cs.brown.edu (Kate Sanders)
Subject: Re: All I want for xmas 
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:24:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.161536.23882@nas.nasa.gov>
wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith) writes: 
[long list of xmas books, including:]
>
>Walking Across Egypt		Clude Edgerton		humorous travel
>

This is a great book, but you will be disappointed if you're expecting
something along the lines of the Blue Guide to Egypt! It's fiction,
set in a small town in the South, and the title comes from a hymn.
The central character is a likeable, independent, elderly woman
living on her own; what i remember is the humorous interaction of
characters, rather than the plot. I have in fact given this as a
Christmas present, and both I and the donee have lent it to various
people, and all of us liked it.

What *I* want for Christmas is the four-volume Sienkevich epic about
Poland (Fire and the Sword, the Deluge, etc.) in the new English
translation. Not likely, as the whole family would have to chip in,
and I wouldn't get any other presents. But maybe, just maybe, it will
come out in paperback ...

Kate


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: gregg@ncsu.b24a.ingr.com (Gregg Phillips)
Subject: Re: All I want for xmas 
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:19:38 GMT

In article <-rar_1n@lynx.unm.edu>, rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger
Squires) writes: 
|> In article <1992Dec16.222454.7295@cs.brown.edu> ks@cs.brown.edu (Kate
|>Sanders) writes: 
|> >>
|> >>Walking Across Egypt		Claude Edgerton 
|> >
|> >This is a great book, but you will be disappointed if you're
|> >expecting 
|> >something along the lines of the Blue Guide to Egypt! It's fiction,
|> >set in a small town in the South, and the title comes from a hymn.
|> 
|> 	The hymn is printed in the back of the book (music and all),
|> 	and I believe is written by the author as well.
|> 	I also enjoyed it (another 50 cent gem from the thrift shop),
|> 	and recall that printed on the cover were positive reviews of
|> 	his first book;  the title escapes me, but can someone
|> 	comment on how good that one was?
|> 
|> >
|> >Kate
|> 
|> rms

I've enjoyed every Clyde Edgerton book I've read.  I believe _Raney_,
which someone mentioned here recently, was his first book.  I've given
perhaps a dozen copies of it as gifts over the years.

_Walking Across Egypt_ and _The Floatplane Notebooks_ are also very
good, and I think he has a couple of newer novels out that I've not
read (_Killer Diller_ is the title of one, I think).  As far as I know,
he's still published by Alogonquin books in Chapel Hill, NC, and
sometimes they're a bit difficult to find here in Alabama.

I don't know if Edgerton is teaching anywhere now, but he used to be a
professor at Campbell University in NC.  I think he also plays (played?)
traditional and bluegrass music in a band that included his wife.

-Gregg
-- 
GREGG PHILLIPS (205) 730-8081
Intergraph Corp.
gregg@ncsu.b24a.ingr.com
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:22783 news.groups:24646