HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley)
Subject: Re: Tuff Luff and other headstay foils
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:14:21 GMT

In article <1dovs6INNduv@bnsgd245.bnr.co.uk> bocmunro@bnr.co.uk (Bruce Munro) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.163427.112971@watson.ibm.com> dwl@watson.ibm.com  writes:
>
>Of course there's several reasons why J-24 sailors don't use headfoils.
>
>1) J-24 courses are generally fairly short legs, so it can often be better
>   to hang on with current sail until going onto a spinnaker leg, instead
>   of having someone messing around on the foredeck changing headsails,
>   which on a small boat like a J-24 has a more serious impact than on a
>   larger boat.
>
>2) J-24 sailors are, on the whole, crazed nutters who never use anything
>   other than a number one genoa anyway! :-) This is from personal
>   experience with the J-24 mob in the UK, I suspect the American
>   contingent are just as bad!
>
>

Perhaps worse. 

I'll add

3) When you drop the jib as you put the chute up, just release the
   halyard, and it should come down on deck all by itself. No need to
   send a bod to the foredeck.

   They tend to use a piece of material (heavy dacron) and snaps
   rather than more familiar hanks. It's probably more aerodynamic
   than hanks.

4) I believe J24s are still limited to Dacron jibs? That can be an
   advantage. Because it's a bit stretchier, you can change it's shape
   effectively over a wide wind range. Good J24 sailors will use their
   genoa to about winds in the mid 20s (knots).

From: Paul.Saltzman@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Paul Saltzman)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Annapolis BS Impressions
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 12:12:00 -0800

DB>From: dmb@IEDV4.acd.com ( Dave Barker )
DB>Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN

DB>Karina Haavik writes:

DB>>
DB>>But it's my understanding that properly engineered unstayed mast can
DB>>withstand just about anything, so I'm still trying to figure out why
there
DB>>are so few of them around.  Is it just tradition, or is there more going
DB>on?
DB>>
DB>>Anybody got any answers?
DB>>Karina Haavik   ******  karina@seas.upenn.edu  ***  Comet #2970
i think you have to look at the corresponding size of the mast on
un-stayed verus stayed traditional boats. on the freedom 36 which i crew
on the mast seems to be aboout 36" in circumference. thats a lot of mass
and weight to carry.



DB>>It looks like a boat.   It leaks like a boat.       It must be a boat.
DB>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------

DB>        I've always read that the biggest problem with unstayed masts
DB>        on sloop-rigged boats is maintaining enough tension on the
DB>        jib to keep its shape. This would explain why it's more popular
DB>        on cat rigged boats like the Nonsuch.



DB>---
DB> * Origin: Ship to Shore Marine NET Vancouver Node (604)540-9596
(1:153/764)
DB> * S2SNet

 * OLX 2.2 * Why read the Docs....I'm already confused.
From: karina@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Karina Haavik)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: How to move two Lasers?
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:03:03 GMT

In article <3060050@otter.hpl.hp.com> ber@otter.hpl.hp.com (Brenda Romans) 
writes:
>
>I may in the future want to move two Lasers at a time.  I could:
>- get a double trailer 
>- trail one and put the other on the roof of the car.
>- Try to tie two boats onto one trailer
>
>I'm not sure I like the sound of the third option and I have a few questions
>about the others.
>
>* If I get a double trailer is it going to be pain if I only want to move one
>boat?  If I have a single combi trailer I should be able to load it on my own,
>would a double be as easy to use?

I've never lifted a laser, so I can't help you there.  But a guy at my club
has a very nice double trailer arrangement.  It's a triangular wooden box
mounted on a regular trailer.  The box stows all the gear and the hulls stand
up horizontally along the outside.  The hulls pretty much stay in place since 
they lean in to the center line of the trailer due to the slope of the box 
(and then tie down for driving).  It looked fairly easy to load, since you 
only have to lift each hull about 2 feet off of the ground.  It would 
definitely be easy with two people.  Watching him do it alone it looked akward
and a little heavy, but it's hard to tell when men are just showing off...  
You must know the design weight; I don't.  I've only ever seen him use it to 
take his boats home at the end of the season, so I have no idea how well the 
trailer would balance with just one boat on it.  I suppose if you had trouble,
you could ballast the trailer with a couple of bricks in the box...

Hope this helps.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karina Haavik   ******  karina@seas.upenn.edu  ***  Comet #2970
It looks like a boat.   It leaks like a boat.       It must be a boat.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Tuff Luff and other headstay foils
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:21:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: hemlock.ZIELKE.92Nov5152113
Distribution: rec
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory

My roller furling system is somewhat suspect at the moment.  The boat came
with a 'streamstay' system.  The track is bent with about 270 degrees of
twist in a smooth spiril up the stay.  After talking to several individuals
I have some serious concernes about the unit.

1)	There is no headstay inside the extrusion!!!  The extrusion is
	solid aluminum.

2)	The ends are EPOXIED into the swivil ends!!!

3)	There is a significant concern that due to the excess twist in
	the system that the aluminum has work hardened and might
	break at a bad moment.

At any rate, I am considering two options at this point.  The first is to
sew some hanks on one of my genoas around the luff tape and sail on a 
straight headstay.  If I do this, how far apart should the hanks be.  The
hanks appear to cost in the neiborhood of $5 each and I am guessing that
for a 45' luff I would need 20 of them.

The other alternative is to buy a foil of some kind to go over the original
headstay.  Something like a 'tuff luff'.  This option costs $375.  However,
I assume that you can't really bag the sail effectively with one of these.

I am leaning toward the option of hanks but have some concern about impact
on the strenght of the sail and my eventual return to a roller furling
system when money is a little less tight (probably a year and $2000 later)

Any advice on sewing on hanks or luff tracks would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dwl@watson.ibm.com (David W. Levine)
Subject: Re: knotmeter paddlewheel location?
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:42:42 GMT
Reply-To: dwl@watson.ibm.com 
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center

Ideally, if you've got a flat run in front of the keel, you can aim for
a spot that's a foot or more in front of where the keel starts down and
far enough back from the bow entry to make sure it stays under water.
Often you'll find that you can get access to that part of a boat from
under the V-berths forward. You'll be much less satisfied if you're behind
the keel, since you get turbulent flow, disruption from the rudder and
quite possibly distortion under power. 

David W. Levine --  dwl@watson.ibm.com  -- IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center
                   -- My Opinions, IBM's hardware. -- 
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your
aim" - George Santayana  
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Subject: Re: When to go?
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
	<1992Nov6.123528.22965@cs.brown.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:00:06 GMT

> Since this clearly will not get
> the water and junk out, I'll go ahead an ask---what do *you* do when you
> "sound the tank"? 

The stuff I use you paint on a stick.  It reacts and changes color with
contact with water.  So, you paint a stick.  Stick the stick in the tank,
and see how much of the stick changes from blue to red, you prefer no red!

> >7.  Adjust the valves and torque the head.
> 
> Adjusting the valves sounds like a good idea, and my Westerbeke manual
> recommends that it be done periodically. There's no mention in either the
> owner's manual or the shop manual about re-torqueing the head. 

Well, my perkins manual recommends valve adjustment and re-torqueing every
200 hours of operation.  To re-torque the head required removing the rocker
arm rack.  

Valve adjustment did have a profound effect on the sound of the engine!  I
was really amazed.  The thing to remember is that one always prefers to have
too much slop than too little.  Too much results in noise (clattering) too
little results in burned valves.


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: How to move two Lasers?
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:06:44 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <3060050@otter.hpl.hp.com> ber@otter.hpl.hp.com (Brenda Romans) writes:


>I may in the future want to move two Lasers at a time.  I could:
>- get a double trailer 
>- trail one and put the other on the roof of the car.
>- Try to tie two boats onto one trailer

>I'm not sure I like the sound of the third option and I have a few questions
>about the others.

If you already have a trailer that carries one Laser, it is wairly easy
to get a roof rack and put the other one to the top of the car.

If you do not have the trailer, and you are anyway going to get one,
take one that is suitable to carry both. Then you have both options.

(When I had a Laser I carried it on the top of the car (upside down)
and I made the beach trolley such that when it was on top of the laser,
I could easily but a surfboard on top of the trolley.

If you want to carry two lasers in a trolley make some auxiliary cushions,
that you put between the boats so that you do not stress the hulls.

>* How easy is it to get a Laser on the top of a car?

If there is two of you, it is a easy task, but if you are alone, you need
to be strong or smart. It can be done, I have done it, but it is so much
faster with to persons, that you rather ask somebody to help you, perhaps
the sailor of the other one. :-).

>* Do double Laser trailers exist?

I believe that the market is so small that they must be made. 

>* If I get a double trailer is it going to be pain if I only want to move 
>  one boat?  

I do not see why you must fill the trailer. The boats are probably on
top of each other, so if you carry only the lover one you will have no
problem. :-).

>  If I have a single combi trailer I should be able to load it on my own,
>  would a double be as easy to use?

Why not.


>Cheers

>Brenda

- Lauri Tarkkonen
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Radio Active Waters ?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 19:30:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.014219.2639@netcom.com> wtwitty@netcom.com (Pacific Systems) writes:
>In article <721352781.F00001@ship.wimsey.bc.ca> Konrad.Koenig@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Konrad Koenig) writes:
>>The 4,800 tonne Ocean Freighter AKATSUKI MARI set sail today from
>>Cherbourg on 15,000 mile voyage to Japan.
>>
>>Her cargo ? 1.7 tonnes of weapons grade PLUTONIUM in 133 casks
>>"carefully" stowed in its holds.
>>
>>
>A question that comes to mind is "What are the Japanese going to do with
>1.7 tons of weapons grade plutonium?
>
>

Japan has an active breeder reactor program. The plutonium will
be used as fuel. As far as the "weapons grade" business is 
concerned, its much too late to do anything about that. Although
Japan is strongly anti nuclear weapons, they could build nukes
very quickly, given their tremendous technological, scientific
and manufacturing capabilities. They have lots of enriched uranium
and, now, plutonium as well. They are building a huge re-processing
plant, so the sea shipments will eventually end. It's easy to get
worked up about Japan's nuclear energy policy but, unlike the US
and UK, they are totally dependent on imports for non-nuclear energy.

Each Trident submarine carries more plutonium than the Akatsuki Maru.
Let's hope they're extra careful.

Stefan





From: ber@otter.hpl.hp.com (Brenda Romans)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:38:59 GMT
Subject: How to move two Lasers?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.boats


I may in the future want to move two Lasers at a time.  I could:
- get a double trailer 
- trail one and put the other on the roof of the car.
- Try to tie two boats onto one trailer

I'm not sure I like the sound of the third option and I have a few questions
about the others.

* How easy is it to get a Laser on the top of a car?
* Do double Laser trailers exist?
* If I get a double trailer is it going to be pain if I only want to move one
boat?  If I have a single combi trailer I should be able to load it on my own,
would a double be as easy to use?

Cheers

Brenda

------------------------------------------------------------------
Brenda Romans @ HP Labs         |  Phone: (0272) 228705
Information Systems Centre      |  ber@hpl.hp.co.uk
Bristol                         |  ber%hplb.uucp@ukc.ac.uk
U.K.                            |  ber@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: fallavol@fred.nas.nasa.gov (Michael A. Fallavollita)
Subject: Mounting transducers without a thru-hull
Keywords:  depth sounders, transducers, mounting
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 08:19:31 GMT
Distribution: usa

Now that I think I've determined that my transducer is bad, I have to
find some way to go about mounting a new one.  The best solution would
be to pull the boat out (AGAIN) and replace the old transducer which
I just spent $50 on to rebed (2 weeks before determining it was bad).
But, I don't want to spend more money on a yard fee, so I'm looking for
other options.  I thought I remembered seeing an article in Cruising
World or Sail about mounting a transducer without putting through the hull.
The solution was to create a resevoir with PVC tube right against the hull.
Apparently the sound waves can travel through the hull with little
attenuation.  I think the author mentioned that you loose some of the
range, but in the SF-Bay, I'm most worried about the shallow readings.

Anyway, I couldn't find the article in any that I still have, so I was
wondering what the collective net wisdom says about this kind of mounting.
Has anyone tried this?  Does anyone remember seeing such an article?

Thanks,

Mike Fallavollita
Catalina 25 #3093
fallavol@corvus.arc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: kell@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dave Kell)
Subject: Re: Unstayed Rigs
Reply-To: kell@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dave Kell)
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 18:37:15 GMT

In article <16816@umd5.umd.edu>, bwilliam@oyster.smcm.edu (Bill Williams) writes:
|> 
|>  So although it's likely that the comparison between the
|> freestanding-masted Hunter 3- and the Catalina 27 was made honestly,
|> I'm beginning to conclude (reluctantly, I admit) that under cruising
|> conditions the speed of the boat design is not nearly as important as
|> the quality of the set-up (particularly the sails) and the experience
|> and attention of the crew. 
|> 

The one thing I personally find hard to believe is that the condition of
the sails is that important.  I think knowing how to trim them is much
more important.  

As an example, I used to race on an O'Day Tempest (23'
keel boat).  In our fleet, the regular winning boat was sailed by two
men, both over 70 years of age (most boats were sailed with 3 crew, generally
young and agile except for the skippers).  Their sails were as old as the
boat (20 years), and they never adjusted the outhaul on their main.  They still
beat us almost every time.  They could read the current (in Lake Ontario) and
make for the best side of the course every time.  As far as boat handling skill,
these guys were great.  I don't think the old sails hurt them too much.

In case you're thinking the boat was faster than the others, this is a one-
design fleet.  At the end of the season, we used to hold a series of races
in which the skippers drew a boat from a hat and sailed that boat in the next
race.  The old guys always did really well, no matter what boat they were
sailing.

I agree that the fastest boat when cruising may not be the fastest on the race
course.  As has been pointed out, there are many reasons that one boat might
sail slower for comfort, etc.  In the case described by Bill Williams, I'd
bet that the other fellow just didn't know how to get good speed from his boat.

dK
===========================================================================
Dave Kell   (604) 293-5753                 kell@mowgli.mpr.ca
MPR Teltech Ltd.                           mprgate.mpr.ca!kell@uunet.uu.net
8999 Nelson Way
Burnaby, BC, CANADA
V5A 4B5
===========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: msolomon@mitre.org (Moise Solomon)
Subject: J/24 Worlds?
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:33:09 GMT

Does anyone know the results for the J/24 Worlds held in Annapolis last
week?

Moise Solomon

SHOCKWAVE
J/24 #4112   
msolomon@mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: robert@monster.apd.saic.com (Robert W Mangum II)
Subject: Re: Radio Active Waters ?
Organization: SAIC Reston, VA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:17:40 GMT

In article <721352781.F00001@ship.wimsey.bc.ca> Konrad.Koenig@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Konrad Koenig) writes:
>The 4,800 tonne Ocean Freighter AKATSUKI MARI set sail today from
>Cherbourg on 15,000 mile voyage to Japan.
>
>Her cargo ? 1.7 tonnes of weapons grade PLUTONIUM in 133 casks
>"carefully" stowed in its holds.

The way this read in the newspaper is that it is definately not weapons
grade plutonium but reactor grade plutonium.  It is plutonium from Japanese
reactors which has been sent to France for treatment.  It is now being
returned to Japan to be reused.  This is a recycling project.  Greenpeace
claims that the plutonium is a good enough quality to make crude bombs.
One of the concerns is that terrorists will attempt to steal the plutonium.
 __________________________     _____________________________________
(                          )   (   Email: robert@monster.saic.com    \
 \   Robert W Mangum II   (_____)    OR   robert@monster.apd.saic.com  \
  )  1005 Hertford Street  _____   Work:  (703) 318-4548                )
 /   Herndon, VA  22070   (     )  Home:  (703) 709-8022               /
(__________________________)   (_____________________________________/
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: vatne@alcatel.no (Lars Vatne)
Subject: Re: A true story
Organization: Alcatel STK A/S
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 09:51:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.034840.9965@news.Hawaii.Edu>, webb@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Thomas SM Webb) writes:
|> >In article <1992Nov1.232847.12706@leland.Stanford.EDU> stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski) writes:
|> >
|> >	 "But I'm going in a straight line!"
|> >
|> >This is exactly why I ALWAYS stay well clear of other boats...sail or power.
|> 
|> Well, IMHO, if you were really within a few feet, and weren't racing
|> or friends or something, then you had gotten too close! 
[Stuff deleted]
|>  Anyway, why be
|> a stikler for the rules when you're day sailing?  
|> 
Because, if you are the ROW boat, you are supposed to hold a steady course
in order that the give way boat may plan his maneouvers and not have nasty
surprises the moment he starts avoiding actions. I hate it when for instance
I'm going to cross in front of another boat (which has ROW), I'm going to make
it with a reasonable margin, but the other skipper gets nervous and starts
altering course, thereby creating a more 'unstable' situation (and possibly
increasing the danger of a mishap). I'm not talking about crossing a few
feet in front of the ROW boat - this would make nervousness understandable -
even a margin of 3-4 boatlengths (which at 6 knots gives a ~10 sec. margin)
seems to unsettle some skippers. Maybe they don't know what to look for in
order to estimate whether they are on a collision course or not.

-- 
Lars Vatne                     Phone  : +47 2 63 76 51    
Engineering Division           Fax    : +47 2 63 84 97  
Alcatel Telecom Norway AS      e-mail : lars.vatne@alcatel.no

From: wtm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bill Mullaney)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:40:21 GMT
Subject: Re: Butane on Powerboats?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.boats

In rec.boats, bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith) writes:

> What is you specific objection to white gas? 

> So I am curious, I'm not challenging your judgement, I just want to
> know what you think is the problem since you are quite definite that
> you will not carry it.

First reason is that I believe it is more easily combustible than
alcohol.  A chemist could give details that either agree or disagree on
that, but I believe that on a boat white gas (or gasoline) presents a
greater danger of a larger explosion.  Second is that, like alcohol, you
need to refuel your stove by transferring the fuel from one container to
another.  That gives a spill opportunity.  Alcohol will evaporate
quicker than any gasoline.  Third is that if it does ignite, alcohol can
be extiguished, or at least diluted, by available water.  Fourth is that
I enjoy fishing when I am on my boat, and handling petroleum products
and fishing gear is a major turn-off to fish.  Even vigorous
hand-washing does not remove all trace of the gasoline.  All those
viewpoints, which may or may not be valid, have convinced me that I
don't prefer to have gasoline stoves, heaters, or lanterns on my boat.

I also have a two-burner Coleman which has served me for 25 years, and
it is great.  But that is in a different environment, and I have no
problem (other than the fishing one) with using white gas on land.

Sure hope you weren't looking for logic or corroborative data.  :-)

Bill Mullaney
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ebrook@athena.mit.edu (Edward J Brook)
Subject: Westsail 32
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:17:33 GMT

Does anyone out there own, (or has anyone owned) a Westsail 32? 
I am interested in a) the resale value of a well equipped 1976 
		      version in Seattle, WA.
		   b) general opinions of the boat.
She's in great shape, recently surveyed, outfitted for world 
cruising, cutter rig, with radar, GPS, LORAN, shortwave,VHF, EPIRB,
desalinator, solar panels, large sail inventory, custom interior
work, vane steering, tiller autopilot, 27 hp diesel, and lots of extras.
This is not an advertisement, just a request for information.
Thanks.

Feel free to e-mail replies to ebrook@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats