From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:44:20 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <gate.71XLVB1w165w@pil.UUCP>, alizard@pil writes...
>Re: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
> 
> 
>Recycling PORCELAIN??? 
>1. There is no shortage of the raw materials (as in clay)... a good portion
>of this planet is made of the stuff. NO ONE foresees our running out of it.
>2. Would you like to come up with an estimate on how much electrical power
>it would take to reduce a toilet into fine powder, what chemical processing
>will be required to make it practical to reuse this powder?
>This is a case where recycling would be a NET DETRIMENT to the planet.
>Chemical waste products and wasted energy. I got a good laugh out of this,
>though, thanks.

Still being derisive? Fine. Apparently you want to adhere to the old 
"disposable use" mindset. Apparently you have only read what I have written 
to find things to attack instead of trying to see what was being said. 
How usefull.

Here we have a fine example of a product that could easily be made 
into something else or placed back in the ground. You laugh because 
the resourse is no where near being low. So I guess your idea of what 
is best to do with it is throw it in a landfill? Well I disagree. It 
should be processed so that the material does not *have* to sit in a 
landfill. The landfills are filling up and we are running out of room, 
so why not reprocess what we can so that it need not be there?

	You'd rather pick a fight with me and just throw it out. 
Wonderful. Your vision of the future must be full of garbage dumps 
filled with trash that somone is too lazy to put back where they got 
it. There's a saying that backpackers use, "pack it in, pack it out". 
That seems to catch the drift of what I'm saying; when you are done 
with it, put it back (if you can). You seem to be saying that if the 
resourse is not in danger, toss it in the dump and forget about it. 
Out of sight, out of mind. Very irresponsible.

> 
>Recycling building materials? A building being taken down and trucked to
>a landfill without salvaging salvageable materials is more an exception
>than anything else. Copper plumbing and wire, pipes, doors, and any "high
>value" item on the property gets salvaged for later resale, haven't you
>ever been to a building supply place that sells used components? 

Yes, I've seen used building goods, but once again you miss my point, 
I can only presume intentionally. There are plenty of buildings that 
*don't* get scavenged for goods first. And I've noticed that you only 
worry about materials that are worth something. The rest I can only 
presume is going to that dump I mentioned before. You're not going to 
worry about getting the rest of the crap processed so that it can be 
re-absorbed into the eco-system because it takes money. Well, you can 
only go on being irresponsible for so long, then your trash catches up 
with you. Being responsible means taking care of your waste products. 
I try to propose some solutions and you flame me because it won't make 
money. You give me great hope for the future.

>As for plasterboard, that's another of those cases where recycling is not
>in order. (see toilets)

And see my response there too.

> 
>As for wood, one frequently finds used lumber for sale as well. The stuff
>that isn't resaleable as lumber in many cases should NOT be burned as
>firewood, being treated with chemicals used to keep termites and other things
>from eating it which qualify as serious biohazards if burned.

Fine then. You have found something that I did not consider. Treated 
wood can be turned into pulp for low grade paper. Or fill for 
sheetrock. Or used in an insulation product. There are hundreds of 
things that it could be used for, if a little imagination was used. 
But you're going to truck it off to that landfill. You're going to 
need another one soon. Where are you going to put it? Gotta clear some 
space, not much of that left you know. Remember that boat full of 
NYC's trash a few years ago? Pretty soon that's going to be your trash 
looking for a home.

	Conserving what you throw out is only a stop-gap measure to 
slow down the amount of garbage we produce but if we contine with your 
attitude and don't worry about it, where will we be? I've been 
advocating a change in conciousness, thinking about making things go 
back into the eco-system safely, but you just don't seem to catch on 
to that do you?

> 
>I think some serious study of how things REALLY work, from natural processes
>to recycling to how things are actually made in a technological culture
>is in order for Ashley, unless Ashley wants to provide unintentional
>entertainment to the users of this newsgroup.
> 
>blessings,
>                                                 A.Lizard


	My ass. The problem here is that I don't agree with you and 
you are too close-minded to see the point in what I'm saying. You'd 
rather look for things to pick out and flame me over than learn 
something. I really hope the people developing the technologies of the 
future are more mature than you or we're in more trouble than I 
thought. Hope you don't choke on your own hubris, you're so bitter 
you'd probably poison the aquifier.

			- Ashley