From: farrell@blackfoot.cis.ohio-state.edu (christopher k farrell)
Subject: Germ of a game idea: RoR vs. Junta
Followup-To: rec.games.board
Summary: happy medium?
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:31:32 GMT

	Well, I've been thinking... some friends and I recently played a game
of Junta.  It was a lot of fun, yes, but after turn 3 or so it became
exceedingly pointless with the constant assassinations and coups.   One of
my favourite games of all time is Republic of Rome, whose prime drawback
is complexity.  These two games represent opposite ends of the spectrum of
that sort of diplomatic game.

	So I was thinking, why not try to design somthing in between?  I would
like to retain the event-driven system of RoR and the multi-player diplomacy 
aspect common to both, with the players representing factions in a government.
I don't want to get into a military simulation like Kingmaker or Machiavelli;
military actions would be handled more abstractly, like in RoR or Junta (area
movement, with only one or two types of armies and fleets, and a simple combat
resolution system).  The objective is to retain the historical flavor and
range of player interaction in RoR without the complexity; or viewed from the
other end, to take Junta and turn it into somthing with more player
co-operation and more empahsis on diplomacy, less randomness, and more
variety.  And, in the process, keep the playing time to 6 hours or less.

	What I really need is a historical model.  The immediate thought that
came to mind was pre-modern China or Japan.  Both have been ruled by loose 
confederations of warlords (nobles), but the problem is that the diplomacy
is primarily military, unlike in RoR where senators were powerful but not
virtual national leaders.  I don't know much about the Persian empire, which
lasted quite some time, but could that be a possible model?  What about 
somthing even less mainstream, like the Incas?  (who were also a loose
confederation, although probably little data exists on their form of 
government, and the lack of a written language would probably be a drag)  The
other thing I thought of was using somthing like the MegaTraveller universe;
since the Imperium is so large each "archduke" has a fair amount of autonomy,
but cannot survive by himself since the outside threats are better-organized
militarily (although smaller and less advanced).

	The (superficial) problem with a sci-fi setting is that the more
advanced you get the more interdependant things like economies and such are,
and things get very difficult to simulate reasonably without too much 
complexity.  I really don't want to get in to pushing counters around on a
hexgrid; I'd much rather do things more abstractly with cards and such.

	What is needed is a model where each player can control a faction of
nobles/princes/whatever in a government; each must have his own personal
agenda, but also must cope with events that effect everybody; no player
should be able to survive on his own.  In addition, the possibility of 
territorial expansion should be available; the inter-player wars should be
kept down (only in Civil wars, wars of sucession, etc).

	Anyway, I would appreciate any brainstorms anybody has.  I'm not
particularly looking at any time or geographical period, but I guess I might
prefer somthing ancient (or sci-fi) and/or non-European; the driving forces of
expansion and conquest make RoR very interesting, while a new and different
setting might be interesting.

	Again, let me stress I'm not looking for designs; I'm looking for a
historical government/empire to base a design on.  If I ever complete this
project, the final product will not be a simulation of the time selected, but
will have the flavor of the era and basing the game on a particular 
(historical) time period always makes it easier to cope with and more fun
to play.

	Those of you reading on rec.games.design please follow-up to me by
e-mail since I don't normally read that group.

-- 
"Storms have come ... rains wash the Earth away,
     Dark skies fall now ... into another day." - Enya, Storms in Africa
"If every man says all he can, if every man is true
     Do I believe the sky above, is Caribbean Blue ..." - Enya, Carribean Blue
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