HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: The Land from Below (was Re: social axiom)
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:38:01 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <gatemail1.0b3091828504650@morticia> jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (Ks. Jim) writes:
>Isaac writes:
>
>> >> oh yeah, i fogot - the highest spirit axiom is 17,
>> >> because WEG doesnt want to deal with what happens after that

What exactly is the big deal with Spirit 17? I was perusing the axiom scales,
and as far as I can tell, Spirit 18 is only bad because of certain Orrorsh
miracles :>  (BTW, Ratboy, nice job of keeping the Sacellum priest under 
control this weekend-I was impressed without even a spell chip :)
At 19, you can travel to 'Heaven' or 'Mount Olympus'. So? Perhaps people are
worried that dead characters will start returning, which would be a Very Bad
Precedent (tm).
I must admit some guilt on my part, as well-the highest Spiritual rating on
my Force miracles was 17, but for the life of me I can't remember why.

>> The LL is currently on its deathbed, as the land below is "erupting"
>> into the eastern land, burning up stelae as it goes.  Don't ask me how...
>> I was told this by his holiness Kansas Jim, and he got it from Iverse.

>Actually, I heard it here on the mailing list from people who heard it
>from WEG at GenCon....

Is this rumor getting out of control or what? OK, here's the deal; first of
all, only the Eastern Land is falling, so don't count Rec Pakken out (provided
it can maintain a bridge in the west)

>> WEG as yet to explain how this is happening.  

This is a problem; apparently, the LB is just 'flowing up' to the surface,
apparently due to Greg Farshtey's desire to see New York under the effect 
of the Law of Wonders. This begs the question: how will we get rid of it?
Has the LB's reality suddenly become stronger than CE's?

>>My theory is that Rec Pakken chose Damo Kil the leopard man as the new 
>>high-lord, and that RP is making the transition slowly, in order to save 
>>poss. energy.

There's a (Infiniverse) Rumor that the Pyrians are attacking Core Earth
and Cyberpapal bases in the Med-and winning! I'm hoping that this means
that Haiden Fel Ar is going to be High Lord of the Land Below, and that
the LB will start planting stelae rather than just 'existing' above ground.
I don't think that Rec Pakken is getting a new High Lord, but anything's
possible...

The Grant Man
gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

"Gold is most excellent"- Christopher Columbus

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: smooge@jupiter.nmt.edu (Stephen Smoogen)
Subject: godnet
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 00:20:00 GMT


Hate to bring up this subject again... but I have to confirm or deny a 
rumour that I keep getting asked about.. Is the godnet up again and
if so, where? If not I will pull on my asbestos suit for the flame war
on why is this being brought up again.

the Smooge
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Robert Link <link@lcopt.physics.fsu.edu>
Subject: Other faiths' miracles.
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Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:21:41 GMT


  Personally, I always thought the remark about the Sacellum diety denying
his miracles to anyone else to be stupid and ill thought out on WEG's part.
It seems rather obvious that an individual with faith(...) prays to (...)
for *all* of his/her miracles--including the ones that happen to duplicate 
the effects of another faith's miracles.  After all, that's what religion
is all about, right?  Worshiping *your* diety/dieties, and not someone else's.

  In fact, we had usually interpreted that clause to mean that the Sacellum
god would refuse to grant miracles that duplicate the effects of miracles
from another religion and are not already part of the Sacellum miracle 
complement.  It seems to me that this is within the purview of the Sacellum
god; whereas, dictating that he has some sort of monopoly on some set of
effects that he seems to have come up with first makes no sense.  What if
another god decides to grant those miracles without his permission?

-rpl

Internet:		link@lcopt.physics.fsu.edu
                                       
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things:  Of shoes and
ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and kings, of why the sea is boiling hot 
and whether pigs have wings."

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: agreene@mta.ca
Subject: Stupid Questions
Reply-To: agreene@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:29:45 GMT

Just a few pointless thoughts...
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: Nile Magic
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:46:35 GMT

Steven Santo writes:

> Burton wrote:
> 
> >> a ritual most high, call upon your knowledge of Egyptian Religion (RELIG)
> >> to bring together the numbers in perfect sync to form the FOURTH TERM."
> 
> and Ks. Jim commented:
> 
> > I don't think the Egyptian Religion skill is the appropriate one to
> > use here; the Mathematics magic is not based on the power of the gods
> > (which would be miracles) but is based on natural powers generated by
> > the "music of the spheres" or by "planetary motion through the ether"
> > or any number of such concepts.
> 
>   I kind of disagree with KJ here.  (now I'll have all his disciples throwing
> miracles at me :-)

Just watch out that none of them invoke my wrath upon you.  8-)

[...]

Having reread the section on Egyptian magic in the Nile SB just now, I
take back my opposition to using the Egyptian Religion skill in spell
creation; it says that magic AND miracles that depend on astronomy
require a Spiritual axiom of 15 and a magical axiom of 12 (so Egyptian
miracles are a contradiction in the Living Land because the magic
axiom doesn't support them), so there is obviously a strong link
between the religious beliefs and the planetary effects on magic.

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Brother Andrek <arakins@iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: My campaign... 
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:54:10 GMT


  I have most of the the sourcebooks.
  Perhaps I misspoke. I know OF the maelstorm...but
I don't know the specifics. And since I didn't want the gaunt
man to be gone, I took the GM liberty of designing my own 
history. So, the events involving Tolwyn and Dr. Mara-Two
(I don't exactly remember their names, so I appologize
for mispelling and/or screwing that up) that happened in
the "official" TORG world did not happen in mine.
  One of the reasons I know so little about the "official"
TORG world: I do not use published adventures, and I do not
subscribe to the Invinitverse (mispelled again, I'm sure, but 
it's late and I'm tired, so I'm not gonnna look it up :) )
Updates.
  The only sourcebooks I do not own: Storm Knight
Guide to the Possibility Wars, Inv. Update #1, Delphi
Worldbook, GodNet sourcebook, L.A. Sourcebook, and Ravagons
Sourcebook. I plan on getting all of them, eventually.

-- Andy...who is too tired to type his signature :)
From: cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (Colin J. Wynne)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Living Land stuff...
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:07:04 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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On Tue, 10 Nov 1992 agreene@mta.ca wrote:

> All jackats in my game (SKs) had both faith and focus--they wanted to make
> full use of the high Spiritual axiom. For those without, I assumed in the
> LL faith and focus could both be used unskilled.

Good idea, but I have one small gripe.  A jakatt is a follower of Lanala,
which means at leats 1 add in faith(Keta Kalles).  That's just nitpicking
though.  The main gripe is that it is a contradiction *not* to have
faith(Keta Kalles) in the LL, because it is a contradiction to have any
spiritual belief other than 'Lanala is all'.  So, you could grant that
focus could be used unskilled by any jakatt (i.e., anyone with faith(KK)),
and that, I think would work nicely in the absence of any more definitive
rules in the SB (What?  Definitive rules is the *LL* SB?).  Still, I'd
like to see optants (those skilled in focus) to have some bigger advantage
over the rest of the jakatts.  Maybe two or more jakatts can invoke
miracles using unskilled focus...

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (Colin J. Wynne)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Ravagons supplement
Date: 8 Nov 92 11:36:41 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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Well, I ran the beginning of an adventure last night, and I will therefore
be, I assume, the first to comment first hand on having a Ravagon PC.

I think that I will not be out of synch with the comments so far when I say
that I think Ravagons are very play-balanced.  Social stigmata attached to
having a Ravagon tagging along with the party (since Ravagons have been
sent to most, if not all, High Lords, a *lot* of people have seen them in
the service of HL's everywhere!) makes it a little complicated to include
the Rav in all interactive scenes.  This adven took place on Majestic, so
having the Rav player in town was not a feasible option.

Anyway, Ravagons are good, if not  great, in unarmed/melee combat, but not
to blow out everyone else.  They are tough, but I wouldn't say
unstopppable (esp. if I were to Mark the Rav for Death... Hmm).  P-Sense
is a great skill, as is P-rip, but with Rav's being perpetually short on
p-points, and the fact that the p-rip and (I think) p-sense rolls can not
be improved through p-points or cards, means that the p-rip skill will be
hard to abuse.

Personally, I think that the 'Rav's don't use magic' is a way for WEG to
wimp out of dealing with more spell users, but the justification is good,
and fits well with the overall background.  Miracles are effective, but
not too powerful.  I personally feel that the grossest miracles are
'Spell Shield' and 'Miracle Shield'.  Their straight combat miracles are
not overwhelming.  Their biggest combat miracle is Lava  Burst, or some
such, and is slightly (but only slightly, IMHO) inferior to Sacellum
Crucifixion.  One thing I noticed is that tz'Ravok Healing miracle is DN
16, whereas all other cosms's are 15.  I wonder if this is a typo, or due
to the nature of Ravok.

On a side note, to bring the party for last night together, I had the
Victorian Loonie convince three of the other players to go hunt and kill a
demon lurking about outside the city.  Said demon was, of course, the
Ravagon SK.  Just getting the players together almost caused the highest
mortality rate our campaign has ever seen in so short a time.  :)

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (Colin J. Wynne)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Learning New Miracles
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:58:19 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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On Thu, 12 Nov 1992, David Oakes wrote:

> Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu) is also a jealous god:
>  ! > Evidently, characters can (according to some sourcebook) take multiple
>  ! > faith skills, and thus use miracles from BOTH (or ALL) faiths involved.
>  ! ???  I don't think so!  
>  ! If you can find it in a TORG sourcebook somewhere I will travel to
>  ! Honesdale myself and cause severe trauma to a certain group of game
>  ! designers....
> 
> make them plane reservations now - the smooge was right!
> the SG SB says that to avoid the religious conflict
> (and to be able to cast any miracle in the SG areas)
> one must get an add in faith(akashan) IN ADDITION to any other adds
> implying that one can have more than one faith(skill) -
> my ruling would be that they cannot be contradictory in ANY way

I would view this as an aspect of the Law of Acceptance, and that it would
be a contradiction to have different faiths under any reality except Space
Gods.  Now, if WEG were to create a SPI 24 cosm (yeah, right!) where the
'One true belief' *was* Apeiros worship, with all other faiths being
subsets of Apeiros/Nameless One (Hastur?), then that cosm would support
multiple faiths without a world law, I suppose.

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: acs_mogged@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Miniatures...
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:39:03 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - River Falls

In article <gatemail1.0b31414202010257@morticia>, Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:
>>   Just a simple question...how many or you TORGers 
>> uses miniatures figures in your playing, for combat and
>> such?
> 
> 	I used to.  When I feel energetic enough to dig out 
> the figs, I use them. 
> 
>>   We do.....I use fantasy figures and figures for
>> Shadowrun for my figures.
> 
> 	In my "learning to paint figs" phase, I used Shadowrun figures,
> and wanted to get the Lance and Laser Torg Figures (there are High Lords,
> Gospog, and Ravagon minis, FYI).  I used those and my Steve Jackson 
> Cardboard Heros (supers and normals sets).
> 
> -- 
> Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
> albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
> Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
> "A day without sunshine is sort of like night." -Mike Jittlov
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
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From: aodn307@BONGO.CC.UTEXAS.EDU(Joshua Henry Geurink)
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QUIT
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Subject: Re: The Land from Below (was Re: social axiom)
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 07:13:32 GMT

Clinton writes:

> I believe it. WEG was thinking about expanding NE into Greece and Rome, re-
>member, in order to bring back all the classical-era stuff... and the Fire
>Tamers remind me a lot more of Ancient Greece and Rome than Mobius and co. do.
>so all dey have to do is bring dem Pyrians up into da med, and presto!

The Nile is already into Crete and WEG has hinted strongly that by the
next Infiniverse Update (April 1993) someone will have invaded Greece
as well - they didn't say it was the Nile, they just said "Guess who
has dropped a stelae on Mount Olympus?"  It could be the Land Below
with a High Lord I guess, but I favor the idea of it being the Nile,
simply because if the Nile and Tharkold are going to have a mixed zone
in Berlin I'd like to hope that the Nile extends close enough to make
it possible and that they aren't going to do something cheesy by
saying "the triangle is made up of a Tharkold maelstrom bridge, two
Tharkold stelae, and one Nile stelae so even though the Nile has no
connection with this stelae region its a mixed zone"....

WEG has also mentioned (don't know if it was from the GenCon report or
off of GEnie) that Mobius and Pluto (of Greek god fame) will form an
alliance, so my money is on Mobius in Greece....

-- 
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)                               /|
jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)           o| |-
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."                              /| \|
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Morph <csg194@cch.coventry.ac.uk>
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 11:47:50 GMT

Please remove me from the mailing list.

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: wolf@cheshire.oxy.edu (Clinton Richard Wolf)
Subject: Re: What If.....
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:26:50 GMT

In article <gatemail1.0b3141037129732@morticia> SHERIS@EARLHAM.BITNET writes:
>
>        ---An element of Toon is added, and therefore, Orrorsh is now...
>THE SCCOBY-DOO REALM!  No one dies, but people do get the wits scared out
>of them, and the horror is always a human in a rubber suit!  ("Lets see who
>The Gaunt Man really is! <Rip off mask> Why...it's old man Smithers who ran
>the Illmound Keep Haunted House!" "Yeah, and I would have become
>Torg if it hadn't been for you meddling Storm Knights...and that dog!")
>And the occult is now just some jury rigged special effects equipment and
>some flourescent paint.
>
         I have been laughing all the way through this article, but this one
nearly killed me, especially the quote!

         Anyway, be sure to replace the skills like Occult and Shape-shifting
with more appropriate ones, like 'Find incredibly important newspaper clipping
just inexplicably lying around' (actually, come to think of it, that's exac-
tly what Research is, isn't it?)... also be sure to include 'Eat ludicrously
large submarine sandwich in a single gulp' and 'spin legs crazily before you
actually start running for about 5 seconds...'

         Plus, there's the World Laws... perhaps the 'Law of Splitting up',
where the two most pathetic members of the party will always end up together,
and always be the ones to encounter the monster, and the 'Law of Incredibly
Goofy Ghost Traps Which Always Use The Pathetic Members as 'Bait' and Always
End Up Working Out Somehow...'
 
>
>        ---Along with the toon grafting, the tech axiom is boosted a
>whee bit to allow...Proton Packs! "Who Ya Gonna Call....?" Horror(tm)-Busters!

         Law of Wise Cracks?  

         Law of Goop? (SK's will inevibtably end up being 'slimed' at least
                      once in each adventure...)

Other ideas... :)

         Turn the NE Empire on its ear... Laws of Boredom, Ambiguity, and
General Sluggishness... All the heroes and villians just sit around all day,
twiddling their thumbs and making fascinating conversation like...

         The Guardian: So, how are you doing...?

         Dr. Mobius: Oh... fine...

         <pause>

         The Guardian: Nice weather, eh?

         Dr. Mobius: Yup...

         <pause>

         The Guardian: So, what'cha thinkin' of doing tonight?

         Dr. Mobius: *shrug* Oh, I dunno. Maybe catch a movie or somethin...

         The Guardian: Yeah...

         <paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuussssssssssseeeeeee>

-- Clint




Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re: Ravagons supplement
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:47:54 GMT

lets do this quick
(before i find a way to mention the social axiom...)

invisible ravagons:
the invisibility is just the power of fear keeping the populace to scared
to act - they see the rav, but refuse to admit it - as well as the PoCorr
helping those that are corrupt commit their evil deeds unobstructed...
(NPC/evil critters in Orrorsh are like the band of bad gunslingers come 
 to kill the sheriff - the townsflok lock their doors, and dont get involved.
 PC/good critters on the other hand arent corrupt enough to be hidden, and so
 will more often then not be burned at the stake - keeps the people from being
 too oppressed by fear, and keeps them occupied away from the real enemy...)

ravagon weres: 
most weres are based on the most (percieved) dangerous hunter around,
so ravagons would become ravagons under a full moon...
(unless they have a natural predator that they fear at home)

of course, under the infection vector of lycanthropy, they would become
the same animal as whatever bit them, overlayed on a ravagon form
(but realise this is a short trip for most predator forms)

dave "what do you mean the ravagon gets furry?" oakes
From: jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (Ks. Jim)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Real-world TORGism
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:08:22 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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Michael writes:

> > Leads me to think that Nippon Tech is preparing to invade New
> > Mexico....
> 
> What *ever* for?  :)
> 
> Quantum leap, what else?--

Nah, Sam's leaps are definitely being performed by an outside force;
time travel is waaay above any Tech axiom we're likely to have by
1999.  8-)

Actually, New Mexico isn't that bad of an option for 3327; it gets him
past Tharkold and into the American Southwest, from where he can
quickly expand and cut off any possible Tharkold expansion (once the
Living Land is out of the way of course), he would be within a few
stelae of taking over Houston and NORAD control in Colorado, plus
there is already a technological foundation in place (Sandia National
Labs, Los Alamos National Labs, White Sands, TERA, CETR, NRAO, even
NMIMT) so the upswing to Tech 24 would not be immediately noticable
to most people.  And with Senator Bingaman already 'Japanizing' the
state, who's going to notice the other effects of a Nippon invasion?

8-)      8-)
Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg