Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thursday, 16 Apr 1992 15:43:20 CDT
From: <U19807@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: MARVEL: Ultron's Last Stand response
 <92107.103033U16244@uicvm.uic.edu>

(WARNING: This post is intended as both a comment on some of the things Doug
 said in his reply to Gary Lewandowski and some of Gary's comments as well.
 If you'd like to avoid this overlong mess [lucky you],just hit the
 "quit" key or a facsimilie thereof. Later....  -CJK)

In article <92107.103033U16244@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U16244@uicvm.uic.edu> says:

>In article <1992Apr16.040205.14280@spool.cs.wisc.edu>,
>lewandow@floss.cs.wisc.edu (Gary Lewandowski [TSoD]) says:

>>        1.  What is Adamantium (secondary)?  2.  How does he enhance
>>the power?  3.  Why does he do this.  Ultron doesn't like the Reaper
>>anymore.
>Secondary Adamantium is the wimpy version of Adamantium.  Chris came up
>with this idea for using the Reaper.  However, I don't even think that
>the Reaper needed the SHC75 strength, just a weapon boost for the
>scythe and the SecAdm skin.  Besides, Ultron wants someone stupid with
>a real vendetta against the Avengers.

The Reaper primarily needed the Class 75 strength because it would decrease
his chances of being pulped before he did his dirty work,as well as in-
creasing his chances for dusting the Avengers once and for all.a

>>        I'll give a first death, since that tells the reader this is a
>>serious battle up ahead.  Still, how we can now blast through
>>adamatium is certainly not well explained.
>USAgent's shield I believe is only SecAdm, so it is pretty easy to
>wreck for someone with motivation and made of true admantium.

I was thinking about this one,actually....wouldn't the blaster's destruction
ability be more of a factor than having motivation and being made of "true"
(secondary,actually) adamantium? This was Doug's method for offing USAgent
(a character I'm mercifully ignorant of-I haven't collected main-line
Marvel comics for years),but he seems to've had a basically sound idea...he
just phrased it wrongly.

>>1) Hank Pym will *never* (reasonably written) become YellowJacket again.
>He's just using the armor to assist in fighting the Reaper.  It is
>a form of heavy weaponry, and they need all they can get.

Yep.

>>2) It'll be a looong time before Jan is talking marriage to anyone again.
>Again, Chris's idea for the actual marriage.  I was more interested in
>merely doing a romance.

Something that Doug forgot to mention was that this story was mainly created
by our bullsh*tting over the phone one night. We have no intention of trying to
sell it-yet (and this would probably apply more to Doug than me)-and it
shouldn't be taken as the New Marvel Universe Reconstruction,or somesuch.

The impending marriage mentioned above can be considered as occuring in a few
years,not right now. Come to think of it,how many years ago _did_ Hank and
Jan get divorced?

>>3) The Avengers won't let Gyrich do anything -- they're not connected to
>>    the government anymore.
>He's not ordering them.  He's blackmailing them.  Plus, he's 100%
>ego, so he wants to take charge.  If they try to shove him off to
>the side, he calls them by their real name and mentions that they'd
>make real easy targets if their names leaked to the papers.

The blackmail thing is Doug's extrapolation of my idea that Gyrich-a royal
pain in the ass,as I remember him-deserved to be taken out,as he got real
redundant (i.e.,boring) real fast in the book back in the late '70's/early
'80's.

>Hercules is also cocky.  He's gone up against the Reaper before and has
>not realized that his weapon has been improved.  As such, with one
>solid hit, Herc learns just what the new scythe can do.  Much to
>his eventual annoyance.

Herc was always a major pain in the ass,and I can't cry too loudly about his
getting croaked. It seems a stupid way to go,but he's being written as
stupid-and has been for a loooooong time (see the two HERCULES 4-parters
by Bob Layton,etc.,for a good reminder).

>>>Wonder Man: The Final Reckoning.

>The Reaper is undead.  You can't kill the undead.  Maybe they would
>get Strange to undo the resurrection spell and send him to his final
>barbecue in hell.

Dealing with an undead,heavily armored and heavily weaponed psycho with
sheer,unadulterated force who can come back from just about anything the
Avengers can throw at him is pretty damn justifiable,especially after he
chops up that bystander....

>><Hank Pym's death scene:>
>He's sorry for all the shit he gave Jan in the past.  Trouble is, without
>full scripts, we really couldn't go into his dispute with her, especially
>over her romance with Dale Whitman.

He still has ambivalent feelings towards his ex-wife. This isn't unique in
real life,from what I've heard...

>>>Fantastic Four: Paibok Time
>>        There's absolutely no reason to crossover to non-Avenger books
>>except that you want to bloody your hands in every book.  As a reader,
>>this is where I would completely give up on your story, since it now
>>quits being a story and starts to be a vendetta against Marvel
>>characters.

The crossover element was mentioned by Doug's (deleted) reply,but to be
fair,we were emphasizing that this is intended to be Ultron's last go-
around. Keep that in mind,since we were also emphasizing his capacity to
wipe out as many enemies as possible. He is supposed to be one of the
most dangerous opponents that you can throw at just about anybody,so that's
why we wanted him to come off like this.

At this point I'm going to terminate this round of the discussion,as Doug
seems to've summed up things nicely after the above comments I replied
to. It might be noted that I didn't know he was gonna post this (and
no,Doug I am _not_ blaming you for anything!),and that all this started
out as a half-serious reduction of dead-weight inspired by the "Marveleone
Universe" posts,among other things. He did refine some of my ideas-and
some of his-for this post,but don't take it too seriously...it's not
like we went through computer-enhanced planning sessions with 15 reference
books along with the ride or something.... >:)

      ** Chris Krolczyk,esq.  * DISCLAIMER: My opinions are in **
      ** Maniac-at-Large      * no way endorsed by the Univer- **
      ** U19807@UICVM.BITNET  * sity of Illinois at Chicago.   **
      ** u19807@uicvm.uic.edu * So there. Nyaah.               **