HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adrie@ica.philips.nl (Adrie Koolen)
Subject: Re: Seemingly poor performance
Organization: Philips Consumer Electronics, Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 06:46:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.154257.7818@glen-ellyn.iit.edu> rgpxs360@glen-ellyn.iit.edu (Peter Stein) writes:
>Has anyone seen data on typical scsi performance ? I'm referring to the
>transfer rate, average seek time, and track-to-track seek. I recently
>upgraded my 386-33 system (ISA) to a Micropolis SCSI-2 and Promise 
>caching controller with 1 Meg installed. The performance while better
>than my Ultrastor 12F and ESDI drive combination hardly lives up to the
>billing SCSI has received. While I realize that the advertised rates of
>4 Mb (SCSI), 5 Mb (SCSI-2), and 10 Mb (FAST SCSI) are burst rates which
>can only be obtained under ideal conditions I would expect to at least
>be in the ballpark. Here are the transfer rates as reported by checkit:
>
>  Ultrastor 12F & Micropolis ESDI drive:      945 Kb/s (same w/Norton)
>  Promise DC-2040 (1Mb) & Micropolis SCSI-2:  1773 Kb/s 
>
>The SCSI-2 rate is less than half of the advertised burst rate (5 Mb)
>and not even double the ESDI rate. I have disabled smartdrv caching for
>drives controlled by the Promise controller. What could be wrong here ?
>Thanks for your help.

To reverse things a bit: 1773 KB/s is EXTREMELY fast! At this speed, the
ISA bus is probably completely flooded. In any case, you can't transfer
5 MB/s, let alone 10 MB/s, over the ISA bus. Furthermore, you should
check how fast the sustained transfer rate of the Micropolis SCSI-2 disk
is. It's a little hard to derive; you should know the number of sectors
per track, number of tracks per cylinder, interleave and skewing factors,
rotation speed, etc. I've seen a lot of drives that max out at some
2 MB/s.

The conclusion definitely is that the ISA bus is the bottleneck here.

Adrie Koolen (adrie@ica.philips.nl)
Philips Consumer Electronics, Eindhoven, the Netherlands
From: sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: Re: Sony exabyte tapes
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:44:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: kakwa.1992Sep11.004432.9794
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada

Cees Bol writes
> Hi there,
> 
> I have a question about exabyte tapes. We normally use  
the Sony P5-90MP
> tapes for our exabyte tape units. No problems about that.
> A few months ago a read a article about the Sony P6-120MP  
tapes. There was told
> that Sony changed the manufacturing techniques on the  
P6-120-MP to introduce
> deliberate faults into them so that they cannot be used  
for data any more.
> The only ditinction in the packaging is a tiny "F"  
following the MP on the
> outer label. The reason for that is to buy the Sony  
data-grade tapes 
> (which costs like twice as much).
> Does anybody know what Sony has done with the  
manufacturing technique of the
> Sony P5-90MP tapes? The same nasty trick as the P6-120MP  
tapes?
> And if so does anybody know a good alternative.
> Thank you fot the answer.
> 
> Cees Bol, cees@fwi.uva.nl


The F doesn't refer to faults but rather to the fact that  
people were loosing several seconds of recording when they  
swapped tapes due to the leader.

The F tapes are pre-advanced to the beginning of the actual  
tape.  This results in an error when you first insert them  
in a drive.  (The drive spits it out, but rewinds it first)   
The second time it's inserted it works.
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
From: "Ingo Cyliax" <cyliax@whale.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Ordinary DAT vs. "data grade" DAT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 21:47:10 -0500


In article <Bu3302.Fty@acsu.buffalo.edu> yaosenko@acsu.buffalo.edu (Yaosen Ko) writes:
>Greetings,
>
>Is there any difference between ordinary, for-music DAT
>(Digital Audio tape) and those expensive "data grade" DAT for
>storing backup data?
>
>Can I use for-music DAT for storing data _safely_?
>
>Any comments and information welcome.

I didn't used to think it made much difference until  I ran a test.

Here is the setup:
	Sun SS2
	2 identical 2.0Gb drives  HP-35470A
	1 TDK 60M (120min.) Audio DAT Tape
	1 HP 2.0GB DDS certified Tape

The test (1 pass):
	write 100 blocks of 126*512 bytes
	rewind
	read 100 blocks of 126*512 bytes
	rewind

The Results:
	After about 12hours...
	The TDK Tape died with I/O errors after 200+ r/w passes.
	The HP Tape still going strong after 600+ r/w passes.

The Audio was totally unusable after 200 r/w passes and could not be written
or read back unless we upped the IO timeout to about 5 minutes.

I suppose one could argue that 200 r/w passes is still a lot of use to 
get out of a tape.  If Audio DAT tape was available in 90m, and I could
save a bunch of momey over DDS certied tape, I would consider using them.
As it is, we'll use DDS certified tapes for backups.

Also, your mileage will probably vary with different hardware and tape
vendors.

-ingo

-- 
/* Ingo Cyliax, cyliax@cs.indiana.edu, +1 812 333 4854, +1 812 855 6984 (day) */
From: kev@hpcpbla.bri.hp.com (Kevin Jones)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:17:32 GMT
Subject: Re: SCSI devices work on SCSI-2 port?
Organization: HP Computer Peripherals Bristol, UK
From: zeglins@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gordon W. Zeglinski)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: recomendations for scsi tape backup
Summary: recomendation for scsi tape backup unit
Keywords: tape backup
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:59:00 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

Thanks to all those who responded to my HOT drives post.

I've been thinking of getting a scsi tape backup unit for my PC.
The unit should be able to work with the 1542b and 1740 scsi host adapters
by adaptec and OS/2.

I've found a swift unit which is attactively priced.  Does anyone have
any opinions about this unit ?  Any recomendations for other brands?
The unit should be in the 250 to 400 Mg range, the swift is 250 Mg.

Thanks

Gord.

-- 
Gord.
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
From: dag@atomica.fi (Dag Nygren)
Subject: Re: SCSI devices work on SCSI-2 port?
Organization: Oy Atomica Ab, ESBO, FINLAND
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 18:48:05 GMT

sasbge@ant.unx.sas.com (Gantt Edmiston) writes:


>In article, berger@atropa (Mike Berger) writes:
>>Rich Chong <U41602@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>>Quick question... If I purchase a system with a SCSI-2 controller
>>>and harddisk (fujitsu M2624FA), will I have any problems using
>>>older SCSI devices chained onto the same controller? Like a
>>>Bernoulli Transportable or any old SCSI DAT tapedrive? Thanks
>>*----
>>There's no inherent reason you can't have SCSI and SCSI-2 devices
>>co-existing on the same bus.  Of course, some primitive "SCSI"
>>devices may not work with your setup in any case (like the
>>Adaptec ACB-4000 or Xebec SA1410 SCSI-ST506 adapters).
>>

>I think Mike is mistaken.  SCSI and SCSI-2 are two completely different
>pin outs.  Just to make sure we are comparing apples with apples,
>I am referring to "Single-ended (SCSI) vs. Double-ended (SCSI-2).

>On a single-ended SCSI chain, half the pins are tied to signal ground.
>Not so with SCSI-2.  The normally grounded signals are passed through
>inverters, which has the effect of doubling the signal on each pair of
>signal on the bus.  This has the added result of allowing longer bus runs.

>SCSI and SCSI-2 also required separate resistive terminators.  You
>cannot intermix them.

>Have I missed something here?  Perhaps Mike is referring to something
>in the SCSI world that I am not familiar with.  If SCSI-2 equals double
>ended SCSI then Mike is wrong.  Otherwise, I'm sure someone will explain
>how fast I need to return to school =-).

	1. It is not "double-ended", it is called differential SCSI.
	2. Differential SCSI has been around for some time now and has
	   nothing else to do with SCSI-2 than the thing that the optional
	   Fast-SCSI specified by the SCSI-2 standard has difficulties at
	   full speed (10 MHz) on a single ended bus, at least with the "usual"
	   passive terminators.

	Thanks for giving me the opportunity to "shine" :-)

-- 
Dag Nygren					email: dag@atomica.fi
Oy Atomica Ab				or     santra!atomica!dag
Box 22 (Ahventie 4A)
02170 Esbo
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: toshiba cd-rom
Summary: ibm version of toshiba cd-rom needs new bios??
Keywords: cd scsi mac ibm
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:01:22 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota


well i have an ibm version of a toshiba cd-rom. at least thats what drive 7
on the mac says. i'm trying (as you may guess) to use it on my mac. the driver
comes back and says this is not a mac formated disk and wants to format
my cd. ha! so has anyone tried using one of these drives on a mac?? i'm
gonna guess that somehow i'll need to get a different rom for it, but then
i also want to use it with my pc. idealy i'd like to have both machines
sharing that drive on the scsi bus. i've seen the corel drivers (for the pc) 
advertised has anyone tried them?

bill pociengel
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
From: jegm@cody.esd.sgi.com (Jim Morris)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: NEC CDR-84, Adaptec AHA1522 summary
Keywords: CROM NEC ADAPTEC
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:48:21 GMT
Reply-To: jegm@esd.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Well Thanks to all who replied to my earlier enquiry. Despite at least
50% of the respondents saying they had various problems with this combo,
I went and bought a CDR-84.

It seems to work fine with 5 of my CDROM's, (The toolworks bundle).
However it refuses to read the Sigraph Proceedings CDROM. I have read this
CD perfectly well with a Hitachi reader hooked up to the same configuration.

When I called NEC they said that it was obviously an Adaptec problem, and they
couldn't help me if I wasn't using "their" SCSI controller. (trantor I think).
This attitude was un-called for, and it is definitely not "obvious" that the
controller is at fault, in fact I would say the exact opposite, seeing as the
Hitachi works. Anyway I am sending the tech support guy the offending CDROM, and
he will check it out for me on an "approved" configuration. I will post the
results when I get them. I have heard reports of other CDROMs being
incompatible with the CDR-84/74 series.

The increased speed does make some problems worth putting up with, so long as I
can read CD's that I need. (luckily the Sigraph one is not one I particularly care
about!).

The only other problem I have is a soft or hard reset will cause the aspi2dos.exe
driver to hang when trying to load. A power cycle will usually fix this. This does
not happen when the NEC is powered off or disconnected. I have reported this
problem to Adaptec.

Does anyone have the CDR-84/74 working with the NEC scsi controller, and have you
noticed any cdroms that can't be read? I'd like independent confirmation of these
problems, although I really don't see how the SCSI interface could be at fault
if they are using standard commands.

Thanks

-- 
Jim Morris, Email: jegm@esd.sgi.com  Voice: (415) 390-5136
From: stlouis@unixg.ubc.ca (Phill St. Louis)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: Differential SCSI-2
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:22:23 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Originator: stlouis@unixg.ubc.ca

We have a Sun Sparcstation 4/630MP and I am very much interested in buying
a Differential SCSI-2 Sbus module.  I know that I have to buy disks that
are set up for differential SCSI-2.  I was wondering if I could install
the differential SCSI-2 disks in any drive enclosure.  We have a fairly
new (6 months old) three-drive enclosure that contains one single-ended
drive.  I would like to take this drive out and place it in a single-drive
enclosure and use the 3-drive enclosure for differential SCSI-2 disks.  

Also does the connector type make any difference in differential SCSI-2?
The 3-drive thing has a Centronix-type SCSI connector.

Thanks

Phill St. Louis (A new convert to differential SCSI)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.intel
From: steibel@venus.cs.umbc.edu (David M. Steibel)
Subject: Re: EISA vs. ISA - which is better?
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:39:57 GMT

sasbge@ant.unx.sas.com writes:
>
> I'm buying my first PC and I'm completely ignorant and/or baffled
> as to which path to take as it relates to EISA or ISA bus systems.
>
> One thing to consider is that I currently own two Maxtor 280MB SCSI
> hard disk drives.  An EISA system would allow me to utilize them.
> An ISA system would require me to purchase an additional SCSI controller.
> EISA system appear to be about $1000 more than the equivalent ISA
> machine.  More like $700 more if I consider the fact that the SCSI
> controller already comes with the EISA option.
[rest of message deleted]

I'm very confused at how you are arriving at this $700-$1000 more
premium.  As far as I've seen a 486/50 EISA machine only runs for
a few hundred dollars more than a 486/33 ISA machine.  And the
EISA option itself is only $100 or so more.  Perhaps you are thinking
about an EISA localbus which would be VERY expensive?

EISA has a number of important advantages.

  A) You can't address more than 16megs of RAM for DMA (Direct memory
     writing for peripherals).  I personally have 20Megs on an ISA
     bus since memory is only $450/16megs.
  B) EISA is faster, especially for SCSI peripherals
  C) EISA supports bus mastering, meaning that you could conceivably
     have two peripherals operating at the same time (I might be wrong
      on that though)
  D) EISA supports a full 32bits, which is a strong advantage when
     using 32bit Operating systems, especially when multitasking.

There are more good reasons, and I'll probably get flamed for my 
deffinitions which I'm just quoting of the top of my head.  I think
the main issue is that EISA has some deffinite advantages (which is
why people USED to pay almost a $1000 premium for it), but it is
now cheaper, making it a wise choice.  Especially for SCSI.

--
David M. Steibel;  Author of the Demacs FAQ;  Internet: steibel@cs.umbc.edu

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be measured by the way 
in which its animals are treated. - Mahatma Gandhi.



Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
From: uyeno@meetng.enet.dec.com (Alice Uyeno)
Subject: NCR 53C720
Reply-To: uyeno@meetng.enet.dec.com (Alice Uyeno)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:49:03 GMT


Okay, I know some of you from NCR read this, so....

I am having a hard time getting a hold of anyone from NCR.  Maybe you can help.  I have heard that there is an updated errata sheet for the NCR 53C720.  How can I get my hands on it?  Also, what's the update on the errata sheet that came out early Jan/Feb. 1992.  


Alice  
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi,comp.unix.bsd
From: david@mlb.geomechanics.csiro.au (David Le Blanc)
Subject: Re: [386BSD] doesn't find harddisk: 1542B vs. 1742A (standard mode) ?
Keywords: 386BSD Adaptec 1542B 1742A
Organization: CSIRO DIT (Melb.)
Date: 14 Sep 92 00:58:45 GMT

nbladt@autelca.ascom.ch (Norbert Bladt) writes:

>If I select "low-level format" in the menu, the controller scans for drives
>and displays SCSI-Id 1 and the name looks like what it should be, i.e.

Just a hint, but 386BSD looks for and initialises the driver for unit 0.

Make your hard drive unit 0, and try again.

A also have a 1542b, and the drive ID is displayed in the bootup spiel
showing the device number and the identification string it read from the
drive.

Lastly, its a fact that there are problems related to SCSI drives with
BIOS'es which fake the disk geometry. The AHA1542b does, so I could not
boot DOS and install a working BSD on the same drive.

>Please help,

>Norbert Bladt.
--
David Le Blanc                         :
Email: david@mlb.geomechanics.csiro.au : `Sort of a cross between a Jaguar
CSIRO Division of Geomechanics,	       :  and a freight train.' the Alien
P.O. Box 54 Mt Waverley 3149	       : in Alien^3.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 8 Sep 1992 00:05:55 CDT
From: Rich Chong <U41602@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: SCSI devices work on SCSI-2 port?

Quick question... If I purchase a system with a SCSI-2 controller
and harddisk (fujitsu M2624FA), will I have any problems using
older SCSI devices chained onto the same controller? Like a
Bernoulli Transportable or any old SCSI DAT tapedrive? Thanks
rc
From: joe@retina.anatomy.upenn.edu (No Exit)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: adaptec 1542b floppy controller problem
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:14:11 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Hi,

   I just installed a adaptec 1542b into a 486 clone (ISA motherboard, AMI BIOS).
3.5'' and 5.25'' floppy drives are connected to the floppy controller on the
1542b. However, I can only boot (DOS) from the 5.25''-- when attempting to
boot from the 3.5'' I get the following error message: "Not a system disk....".
This same error occurrs whether or not the 5.25'' or HD are connected. 
Further, if I boot (successfully) from the 5.25'' and then try to read a disk
in the 3.5'', the error message is: "Failure reading drive B:....". So right
now I can't get anything from the 3.5'' drive. Any suggestions you could give
me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
-- 

			Joe Panico
			joe@retina.anatomy.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
From: volker@edfd.uucp (Volker Schmidt)
Subject: Q: Firmware-Revision for Quantum HD
Organization: EDAG, ENGINEERING + DESGIN AG, Fulda, FRG
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:09:25 GMT

Does anyone out there in netlands know, if there is a newer Firmware
for the Quantum P80S Harddiscr-Series.

My Drive identifies itself with:

	             QUANTUM P80S 980-80-94xx
Seialnumber is:      004091652
Firmware-Version is: A.2 09/28/89

I bought the Drive by second-hand, so I don't know where to ask else and
where to get a update (if there is any (?)).

ciao,
-volker
-- 
Volker Schmidt | EDAG, Reesbergstr. 1, D-W-6400 Fulda | volker@edag.de

Maenner sind wie Armreifen:
Die leicht Behaemmerten passen sich am besten an.
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
From: milton@teal.csn.org (Milton Scritsmier)
Subject: Re: Where can I find documentation of Sense Keys returned by devices?
Keywords: SCSI Sense Keys, Documentation
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 04:33:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep05.122940.3987@crash> peterson@crash.cts.com (John Peterson) writes:
>   Where does one go to look up the meaning of Sense Keys, etc. returned
>from a SCSI device? While my machine was performing some heavy I/O, (reading
>and writing to the same drive), I got the following;
>
>WARNING; SD01; I/O Error, HA 0 TC 0, Unit = 0, Err: 6DD0E001
>block = 0x000000, count = 2048
>Sense Key; 0x000004, Extended Sense; 0x000044, Opcode; 0x000028

It looks like you were doing an extended read (opcode 0x28) for
2048 bytes from block 0. The sense key says you had some kind of
hardware error, and the extended sense says the drive had some
kind of internal target failure. The first line is probably stuff
specific to your host driver/hardware.

>
>which wasn't too informative. I'm curious to know the specifics of this
>one, but what I really want to know is; WHERE IS THIS DOCUMENTED? Is this
>device dependent, or the same for all "disk drive" category scsi devices?
>I really do want to R.T.F.M. :^) I would guess this to be of general
>interest, so posted replies may be best.

All the stuff from the second and third lines of the output look like
they came from the SCSI Request Sense command. You should get a copy
of the SCSI-2 spec, or better still, get a copy of the SCSI specification
manual for your drive (some manufacturers use the SCSI error codes in
slighty different ways - the spec for your drive should tell you what
causes an "internal target failure" on your drive). Although this
particular error looks like a drive failure, technical documentation
on your host driver would help in other cases. You should contact your
system manufacturer about this. 

The SCSI spec can be obtained from the SCSI BBS (719-574-0424) or via
ftp from ftp.cs.tulane.edu in the pub/scsi directory. For the SCSI-2
spec rev. 10c (slightly outdated), the Request Sense error codes are
in section 7.2.14 and in Appendix I. 

Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
From: pjh@mccc.edu (P. J. Holsberg)
Subject: Low Voltage on Pin 38
Organization: The College on the Other Side of U. S. 1
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 00:08:54 GMT

I'm trying to connect up a device that's powered from a SCSI device --
WangDAT 1300 to be precise -- and it gets its power from pin 38,
termpwr. Unfortunately, the device needs 5V and the 1300 is putting out
only about 2V.

Is there anything I can do about this? Is pin 38 just a voltage source
or is it under control of something? I ask this because if it were just
a voltage source, I'd have no qualms about disconnecting it from the
cable to the connector and run 5V from the power supply of the WangDAT's
case. However, as I'm sure you can tell, I know zilch about SCSI. :-)

Thanks,
Pete
From: berger@atropa (Mike Berger)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: Re: SCSI internal drive inline terminator -- small volume source
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:56:22 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

merlin@neuro.usc.edu (merlin) writes:
>Where does one obtain small quantities (one to ten) of the SCSI internal
>drive inline terminator for 50 pin flat connector cables?  I have only a
>sample of "TYPE: S.E.C.  D/C: 9034  P/N: IBM#64F4774" with no vendor id.

>My local PC repair people as well as local electronics vendors say they
>have never seen an internal inlinec SCSI terminator -- only the external
>variety.  A source & price for this component would be really helpfull.
*----
Methode makes them, and they come in several varieties (single and
differential, SCSI and SCSI-II).  They are available from Newark Electronics.
--
	Mike Berger
	Department of Statistics, University of Illinois
	AT&TNET     217-244-6067
	Internet    berger@atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi,comp.unix.bsd