HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com (John Mosbarger)
Subject: Re: Crossing Gate Rules and Laws
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1992 16:14:16 GMT

hansend@physc1.byu.edu writes:
> The discussion of the "car attacking the train" has jogged my memory
> about something I would like to ask the train drivers, and anyone else
> who may have an answer.  When I used to live in Los Angeles, I would
> cross a track about 1/2 mile from my work place.  Once in a while, there
> would be a crew out working this track doing some switching and stuff,
> and the gates would be down though they would not cross the road at all.
> Of course, in Los Angeles, this would result in a large amount of
> traffic stopped because of the gates.  Question:  What rules, laws,
> etc., apply in a situation like this, where the gates are activated by
> switching activity, or a parked string of cars, but the train is not
> crossing the road on a regular basis, if it crosses it at all?
> 
> Doug Hansen  Hansend@physc1.byu.edu

     I haven't seen it in a while, but the Queen St. crossing in Albany,
Or. has a sign by the street saying something like if a train blocks the
street for 10 or 15 minutes continuously to call such-and-such a number.
Generally a string of parked cars will not activate the gates if the cir-
cuit employs the 'doppler radar' principle.

--
John Mosbarger
HP McMinnville, OR
johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com
From: clb@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (carl.l.blesch)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Playing Chicken!!!
Summary: car-train accidents
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:48:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, IL

In article <1992Apr11.151446.3791@gw.wmich.edu>, 31ochs@gw.wmich.edu writes:
> In article <9339@ncrwat.Waterloo.NCR.COM>, rtp@53iss6.Waterloo.NCR.COM (Richard T. Pierce) writes:
> > 
> > When will people learn that playing chicken in a 2500 pound car against
> > a several hundred thousand pound engine is always a losing proposition for
> > the car...
> > 

I've heard two theories about why car-drivers inadvertantly or
not-so-inadvertantly tangle with trains. One is that since passenger
trains are not part of the mainstream culture anymore, the public
in general doesn't have an appreciation for railroads or an internalized
concept of the power, mass, momentum, (pick whatever the appropriate
physics 101 term is) that trains have - both in terms of stopping
distance and crushing potential. Secondly, there is no legal connotation
to the flashing grade-crossing lights (I'm sure the lawbooks say it's
illegal to go around a flashing signal, but people don't think of that).
If it were a standard traffic signal, maybe people would think twice,
having the gut feeling that they could be ticketed for going around it.

Again, these are just theories I've heard. I'm not sure how much stock
I put in them personally, but they're worth considering.
> 
> I've always been kind of afraid that someone might run around the gates when 
> I'm sitting near the tracks watching a 70 MPH frieght roll toward me.
> It a car ever got hit, I guess all you could do would put your head between
> your legs and kiss your *** goodbye.

Something along these lines happened in Chicago last year. A car was
waiting at a grade crossing, first in line at the gates, when a speeding
car comes up from behind and whacks it in the rear, pushing it on the
tracks. The commuter train hits the car and adds severe injuries to
whatever injuries the hit-and-run driver caused. The hit-and-run driver,
in the meantime, reverses, turns around, and hightails it down the street.

So now, when I'm first in line at a grade crossing, I'm not so much
worried about a derailment happening in front of me; I'm worried about
some nut pushing me into the path of an oncoming train or the side of
a passing-by train!

Carl Blesch
From: yhshowie@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Howard Wharton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Car Attacks SP Train
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:29:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr07.191545.28309@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com>, johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com (John Mosbarger) writes...
> 
>     I almost feel some guilt for starting this whole thread.  Unfortunately,
>just about daily one can pick up a newspaper and read about a grade cross-
>ing accident, and it's usually caused by sheer stupidity on the driver's
>part.  McMinnville has about 15,000 people and grade crossing accidents
>are rare, but last week the Willamina Turn (2 SD9's dragging lumber loads
>back into town) struck a car.  The street crosses the track at about a
>30 degree angle, there are no gates or lights, but visibility is almost
>unrestricted in both directions.  The engineer said he saw the car from a
>long distance, but noticed it never slowed for the train.  He also said he
>was laying on the horn but to no avail.  The train hit the car and spun it
>around.  The driver had only cuts and bruises, but he was cited for:  Fail-
>ure to yield the right of way, driving while suspended, driving with a
>cancelled registration, and driving while uninsured.  The paper stated that
>he "had the windows up and the music on".  My god, they're everywhere!!
> 
>     On a lighter note, a newspaper clipping showed up on my desk this morn-
>ing, and while non-railroad related, it's a real classic.
> 
>     KENMORE, N.Y. -- A man who leaped from a fourth-story window and sur-
>vived by landing on a car, rode an elevator back up and repeated his suicide
>attempt -- jumping from the same window and landing on the same car.
>     The 30-year-old survived both 40-foot leaps, and was in fair condition
>in a Buffalo hospital.
>     "That's a total of eight floors and other than a broken wrist and a
>broken ankle, he's in as good shape as you or I," said police Capt. Emil
>Palombo.
>     In his first attempt Saturday morning, the man "had to take a running
>leap because those windows don't open," Palombo said.
>     He dove through a double-paned window, landing on the car, buckling
>the roof and doors and smashing its rear windows.
>     Although dazed and bleeding from facial cuts, the man got up and walked
>to the building's elevator, a witness told police, and jumped the second
>time, again landing on the car.
> 
>--
>John Mosbarger
>HP McMinnville, OR
>johnm@hpmaa.mcm.hp.com
I live a block away from that building- also on his second attempt he almost
landed on a firefighter responding to that call since it went out a s a first
aid call.
From: rogerm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Roger Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Re: TRAVELOGUE: Steam trip in Thueringen (Germany)
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:34:12 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

The Denver and Rio Grande Western tried a couple of Kraus-Maffi diesel
hydraulic locomotives in the 50's but they turned out to be dismal failures
at the high altitudes that the Grande runs. They were later sold to the SP
who later scrapped them. These units were built in Germany.

					Roger Mitchell
					Master Mechanic: FCMRy                    

				
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com  (James B. VanBokkelen)
Subject: Re: RDC's and SPV's?
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 08:48:34

The B&M's RDCs would have made it through the winter of 77-78 much better
if the MBTA (and B&M) hadn't removed the sheet metal enclosures around the
under-floor diesel motors during the summer of 1977.  The claimed reason
for this was to reduce fire hazards due to oil soaking the insulation on the
inside of the boxes.

However, I've always been suspicious: the B&M got new GP40s that summer,
leaving them with spare GP7s, and the way the Feds did transit funding at
that time, the MBTA could use federal money to buy new locomotives, but
not to maintain existing RDCs.  I wonder what went on behind closed doors.
B&M and MBTA officials I've asked about this haven't had much to say, which
might just be because they were embarrassed by the service that winter, or
something more...

I know that a mere 24" of snow doesn't ruin an RDC; consider CN/CP/VIA...

James B. VanBokkelen		26 Princess St., Wakefield, MA  01880
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (617) 246-0900  fax: (617) 246-0901
From: sra@bistromath.mitre.org (Stan R. Ames)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: B&O, BR&P, B&S, WA&G (was Re: Railway Lantern)
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:56:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: linus.1992Apr9.185635.4916
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA

In article <1992Apr7.075039.2353@cevax.simpact.com> kclark@cevax.simpact.com (Ken J. Clark) writes:
>In Message-ID: <IdrDKVu00Uh_A8Zy1I@andrew.cmu.edu>,
>ap2z+@andrew.cmu.edu (Alan Edward Petrillo) writes:
>
>Actually, the B&O gained control of the BR&P in 1921.  It became the BR&P 
>sub-division of their Buffalo Division.  The ICC also required as part of 
>the deal that the B&O take control of the parallel but less healthy 
>Buffalo & Susquehanna (B&S) Ry.  This was part of the then ICC's general 
>policy of trying to get the bigger healthier railroad to take control of 
>less healthy ones.
>
You are somewhat wrong in this information.  The B&O took over in January 1932.
In the late 20s there was a plan to merge the BR&P into the D&H.  The B&O
desired both the BR&P and the B&S to form their "Rainbow Route" from New
York to Chicago.  This line was never completed due to the depression.

When the B&O took over it became the Buffalo Division of the B&O.  The mile
posts were changed to reflect miles from the Butler end rather than 
from the Rochester end.

I have extensive material on this railroad should anyone be interested.
Those of us who follow the BR&P and its successors are an over zealous
breed.
two tidbits:  although one might consider the BR&P to be a north-south
route, the schedule was always east/west.  This is historical artifact
in that the origional line went west from rochester.

One of the many nicknames for the road was Beggers, Robbers, and Pickpocketors.

Stan Ames
BR&P/B&S SIG Coordinator.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Crossing Gate Rules and Laws
From: hansend@physc1.byu.edu
Date: 6 Apr 92 13:15:46 -0600
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University

The discussion of the "car attacking the train" has jogged my memory
about something I would like to ask the train drivers, and anyone else
who may have an answer.  When I used to live in Los Angeles, I would
cross a track about 1/2 mile from my work place.  Once in a while, there
would be a crew out working this track doing some switching and stuff,
and the gates would be down though they would not cross the road at all.
Of course, in Los Angeles, this would result in a large amount of
traffic stopped because of the gates.  Question:  What rules, laws,
etc., apply in a situation like this, where the gates are activated by
switching activity, or a parked string of cars, but the train is not
crossing the road on a regular basis, if it crosses it at all?

Doug Hansen  Hansend@physc1.byu.edu
From: sra@bistromath.mitre.org (Stan R. Ames)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Speaking of R & S (Re: Railway Lantern)
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:09:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: linus.1992Apr9.130905.24135
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA

In article <1992Apr4.000842.14227@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema) writes:
>
>Speaking of Rochester & Southern, does anybody know what the B&O (now R&S)
>location name was for the little depot and yard by the Rochster, NY Airport?  I
>have my slides labeled Rochester, but I have the feeling that's not right.
>Thanks in advance.
>
>BTW: For those who like mars lights, one of the R&S's end cab EMD switchers
>     (103?) carries a full array of mars lights on its nose.  Though I don't
>     know for sure, it's a fairly safe bet it's ex-SP.
>
>-- 
That "little depot" is actually the former BR&P Brooks Ave Yard office.  Just
in front of that structure is a car scale. This structure is one of the most
classic wood structures on the line.  It was not used for a year but now
is the office building for the R&S.

Yes the R&S switcher is an ex SP.

Stan Ames
From: rap@tcom.stc.co.uk (Richard Porter)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Manchester Metro
Date: 14 Apr 92 12:52:10 GMT
Reply-To: rap@tcom.stc.co.uk (Richard Porter)
Organization: BNR Europe Limited

Mark Enderby writes:

>The Altrincham line segregation south of Skelton Junction is by
>separate tracks. Can't remember the exact details, but I suspect there
>is a small section of single line for both parties. The BR line
>has been closed (as was the Bury one) since Christmas - and as you
>quite rightly suspect, the replacement bus services were/are chaos !

Chris Lee also asked about segregation south of Skelton Junction
(by email but my reply bounced).

I gather from the handbook that the Chester trains were diverted over the
freight line between Altrincham and Stockport from May 1989, and an underpass
has been constructed at Cornbrook Junction so that the trams can pass
underneath the Warrington line.

The Cornbrook viaduct has been refurbished for MetroLink, and a new viaduct
has been built alongside G-Mex where the line descends to street level. I saw
this last year, and it blends it well with the architecture of the former
Central station.

Richard
From: rogerm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Roger Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:39:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Sometimes It Pays To Be Late For Work
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

Around here when the UP runs either the challanger or the 844 us railfans all
come down with the "Choo Choo Flue" and take the day off to go train chasing.
				
				Roger Mitchell
				Master Mechanic: Ft. Collins Municipal Ry.
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Diesel-Electric vs. Diesel-hydraulic
Date: 16 Apr 92 05:18:43 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <2226@transfer.stratus.com> btarbox@sw.stratus.com (Brian Tarbox) writes:
> Can someone explain what a diesel-hydraulic is and
> how it works?  Thanks.

The standard diesel hydraulic uses a hydraulic torque converter,
to couple the engine to the trucks (via drive-shafts) instead
of the electric generator and truck mounted motors of the
diesel electric.

In any case, the priciple is exactly the same as that of the
automatic transmission used in cars, blown up to industrial
proportions.  The torque converter allows the engine to run
a near constant speed, while providing sort of a variable
"gear ratio" between the engine wheels.  There is often also
a gear box, for reverse and/or speed ranges.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing:   domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department     phone:  215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)
From: K.Buck@ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Danger Grade Crossing
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:09:31 GMT
Reply-To: K.Buck@ma30.bull.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Inc.
Originator: buck@granite.ma30.bull.com

In article <1992Apr9.145606.23681@wdl.loral.com> gjs@wdl30.wdl.loral.com
   (Gregory Scott) writes:
>The lesson I learn was not to take pictures near grade crossings.
>If the train had hit the car it surely would have carried it
>very near where I had my camera (or worse).

i wouldn't so far as to say 'never', but i agree it's a lessen learned.
certainly there's more of a *risk* near a grade crossing vs. some other
places.  someone stopped at the gates in a car also runs a similar risk
of having some other Bozo (tm) try to beat the train.

the main thing to keep in mind is that while railroads are fun to watch,
they can be dangerous to be close to.  when possible, avoid getting into
tight spaces that you might have trouble getting out of if something
goes wrong.  when possible, find a spot that's above track level so you
don't have the derailed hopper cars chasing you down the banking :-)
From: mmoore@ux.acs.umn.edu ("None of ya Bizness")
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Empire Builder Timetable
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:24:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux.1992Apr14.012458.21230
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Minnesota

$ 7 55a    2185    Bingham - White Salmon WA              5 46p
		   ^^^^^^^
This is spelled BINGEN.

And I might as well ask, what's the scenery (if there is any) like on 
train 21?  My fiancee and I will be riding down to San Antonio for a 
week's vacation.

Froot Loops,

Malcolm Diallo Moore                       #----o___ooo___oo-oo-oo\      #----o
Computer Information Services          .___| |_|          `'''''''|  .___| |_|
System Co-Administrator		       |      The House Train     |  |	    The
University of Minnesota, Twin Cities  #|     r--------------p     |##|     r---
mmoore@[ux.acs | donald.cs].umn.edu____`O#O#O\--------------/O#O#O'__`O#O#O\---
From: eddie@railnet.nshore.ORG (Eddie Van Huffel)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Broadway Limited Timetable
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16:29:19 EDT
Distribution: na
Organization: Railnet BBS +1 216 883 6298

         RAILNET BBS (216)883-6298  AMTRAK SCHEDULES
                   B R O A D W A Y / T B L

In Cleveland, call  861-0105 or 696-5115 for more information.
Tell the ticket agent where  you  saw this notice. Elsewhere,
call (800)USA-RAIL or your travel agent.

---------------------------------------------------------------
            T h e  B R O A D W A Y   L I M I T E D
                      New York-Chicago

         Sleeping car service- roomettes and bedrooms
      (First Class Service including complimentary meals)
        with complimentary coffee, tea and orange juice
         served 6:30-9:30am.  Economy slumbercoach rooms
     are also available (do not include complimentary meals).
                    Reserved coach service.
      Dining and Lounge Service: complete meals, sandwiches,
                    snacks and beverages.
       Checked baggage handled (see agent for exceptions)

 41.......................Train Number.....................40
Daily   Effective April 5, 1992  through Oct. 24, 1992    Daily
---------------------------------------------------------------
(read                                                 (read
 down)              S t a t i o n   S t o p s           up)
 TIME  MILES                                           TIME
---------------------------------------------------------------
 2 37p    0    Dp NEW YORK,NY -Penn. Sta. (EDT)      Ar   5 40p
R2 57p   10       NEWARK,NJ -Penn. Sta.                 D 5 14p
R3 44p   58       TRENTON,NJ                            D 4 28p
R4 24p   91    Ar PHILADELPHIA,PA -30th St. Sta.     Dp   3 16
R4 50p   91    Dp                                    Ar D 3 16p
R5 17p  110       Paoli,PA                              D 2 48p
 6 01p  158       Lancaster,PA                            2 04p
 6 44p  195    Ar Harrisburg,PA                      Dp   1 25p
 6 57p         Dp                                    Ar   1 15p
 8 08p  256       Lewistown,PA                           11 51a
 8 47p  291       Huntingdon,PA                          11 11a
 9 32p  326       Altoona,PA                             10 26a
10 36p  365       Johnstown,PA                            9 19a
11 29p  412       Greensburg,PA                           8 24a
12 29a  444    Ar PITTSBURGH,PA -Amtrak Sta.         Dp   7 40a
12 49a         Dp                                    Ar   7 25a
 3 17a  518       Youngstown, Oh                          4 40a
 4 27a  571       Akron, Oh                               3 30a
 6 27a  683 ET    Fostoria, Oh (EDT)                EST   1 25a
 7 07a  772 EST   Garrett, IN (EST)                 EST  10 54p
 7 52a  818 EST   Nappanee, IN (CST)                EST  10 02p
 9 17a  900 CST   Hammond-Whiting,IN (CDT)                8 42p
10 08a  912 CST   CHICAGO,IL -Union Sta. (CDT)       Dp   8 15p
---------------------------------------------------------------



--
eddie@railnet.nshore.ORG (Eddie Van Huffel)
Railnet BBS +1 216 883 6298
From: v106qhlw@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Poster Child Against Meal Plan)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Coastal South Carolina
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:41:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I'll spendng the summer with my mom who has recently moved to south carlina
from NYC.  I haven't had the opportunity to look at any maps, and my mom 
isn't so great at scoping this stuff out.  Can anyone tell me if there
are any active lines in the coastal area of southc carolina --- or not too
far inland?  She's in the Myrtle Beach area --- i know already that the
amtrak lines are inland around the Florence area (for those "in the know"
about SC)... anything else around?  You can post or email me...

Thanks in advance.
mark  
v106qhlw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dave@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David A Rasmussen)
Subject: David Zuhn, where are you?
Originator: dave@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: UW-Milwaukee Computing Services Division
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:01:39 GMT


Does anyone from rec.railroad, specifically from the Minnesota area,
know what happened to David "zoo" Zuhn who used to post from aps.??.umn.edu?


-- 
Dave Rasmussen - Systems Programmer/Manager, UW-Milwaukee Computing Svcs Div.
Internet:dave@uwm.edu, Uucp:uwm!dave, Bitnet:dave%uwm.edu@INTERBIT
AT&T:414-229-5133 USmail:Box 413 EMS380,Milwaukee,WI 53201

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: lelanda@Ampex.COM (Dave Leland)
Subject: Railfan Discussion Group......Ham Radio
Originator: lelanda@omega
Organization: Ampex Corporation, Redwood City CA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:16:58 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ajw@squid.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Waugh)
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Fields (was RE: Playing Chicken)
Keywords: Rails, Signals
Organization: CSIRO, Division of Information Technology, Melbourne
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 02:01:53 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.113932.7410@e2big.mko.dec.com> pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson) writes:
>In article <13APR199214505450@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov>,
>calizan@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (PAUL LIZANICH) writes, in part:
>>The only rails I know of which would emit an EMF would be those on a model 
>>railroad.
>	Many (i suspect most...) RR's operate the signal system, in part, and
>	the grade crossing protection via low voltage/low current signals in the
>	rails.  Insufficient to jam car doors or stall engines.  (some uwave,
>	some audio frequency, some dc..)

But quite sufficient to generate EMF which can be picked up by sensitive
electronic equipment.

There was an amusing article in the 'New Scientist' one or two weeks ago.
Reading between the lines of the article it appears that a central London
railway was recently relayed with continuous welded rail and the existing
AC track circuits were replaced with jointless audio frequency track circuits.

Unfortunately, some of the arches underneath the railway had been let out
for practice and recording studios. The sensitive guitar pickups, not to
mention the long leads, easily picked up the EMF being generated by the
track circuits and made the studios unusuable. BR and the studios are now
fighting about compensation.

andrew waugh
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Rail Maps in General (was Re: Rail Maps - Wisc,Mich)
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:25:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: orbit.7425
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

The US Geo maps can be ordered (or you can go in person) from

Map Distribution Survey
USGS 
P.O. Box 25286 Federal Center
Denver Colorado 80225

The Federal Center is acually ewest of Denver in Lakewood

There are signs on where to go (or just follow the RR tracks to the building)


Also ask them for the "Green" and "Brown" books for your state these are the 
index and price lists.  These are free from the USGS (my local store charges
$1.00 each)


UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!hudson
INET: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org
ICBM:   Lat. 44.59 x Long. 93.13
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