HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Day 3, Chapter 4.  **Spoiler Warning!**
Date: 13 Sep 92 13:45:37 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

Hmmm...  First off:

*******BIG SPOILER WARNING********

Much better.  Second:  I'm going to make myself post a total of 7 daily
reports, to make it harder on me to knock myself off...  I don't know if that
makes sence to anyone else, but...  And thanks, as always, for tolerating my
presence here!

Last night I woke up and had dinner with my family (including Uncle, Aunt, and
Grandparents)...  That started things off on the wrong foot.  I didn't know
they were homophobic assholes.  Teach me to talk with an open mind to people I
care about...

Then I made a desperation run to see Tara.  (Read:  I needed someone to talk
to, and she was home!)  Good news:  My crush on her has dissapeared to near
nil.  Bad news:  We really weren't able to talk, because of Kay's presence.  (I
can't talk about some of these things with her, even though she's aware of
them!)

Then I was a silly fool and decided to see RHPS.  I got picked up, and told
"Please follow me home!".  So I gave her and her neice a ride home, and then
went inside and BSed with them, and a few friends of theirs...

Later I found a few things out.  Julie (The person who picked me up) ended up
trying to give me a B.J.  I stopped her because I started freaking out.  Then
she told me she was MARRIED, and he would kill me if he knew, so don't worry...
 (Yeah, right...)  Dan and Sue over there, well Dan was her brother and Sue is
her Neice...  Her Husband would kill Dan if he knew what they were doing... 
And Connie over there?  Her husband would kill her if he knew she was still
over here...

Boy, did this make me feel good about everything...  (NOT!)  And she didn't
understand why I wanted to leave...  Even when I explained that I was freaking
out because of the Teri incident...

Yeesh...  Thanks for tolerating me, though I don't know why anyone does...  I
don't have any problems that the rest of you have...  Hell, I don't even have a
good reason to kill myself, yet I still want to...  Now, I wonder why I feel so
worthless...  (DUH!)

+--------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
|Krikket              | krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us | I'll *LEGALLY* ordain   !
|a.k.a Doug Krick     | Team Star Charter Member   | anyone, no questions    !
|Data # 708/665-9732  | #include<std.disclaimers>  | asked for just $5!      !
+--------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
| From the makers of "IBM Made Easy" is "Cray-2 Simulations On your VIC-20"  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1210@twwells.com
Subject: depression
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 20:58:10 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com


Having lurked myself for a while now ... I would like to ask a rather specific
question about depression ...

Have any of you got any tips to keeping the depression monster at bay ...

I get told by my therapist that it is a normal response to be feeling
depressed but that feeling is so uncomfortable for me that I want to get
rid of it quickly ... my therapist tries to give me the impression that
I should not be fighting it ...

Just thought I would ask ...

Thanks



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
anon-help@twwells.com  -- for a help message
anon-admin@twwells.com -- ANON administrator
anon-0@twwells.com     -- anonymous e-mail to ANON administrator
anon-asar@twwells.com  -- post anonymously to alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1229@twwells.com
Subject: test
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:12:49 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com

of path for posting.



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
anon-help@twwells.com  -- for a help message
anon-admin@twwells.com -- ANON administrator
anon-0@twwells.com     -- anonymous e-mail to ANON administrator
anon-asar@twwells.com  -- post anonymously to alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: aw@sei.cmu.edu (Anne Wulffraat)
Subject: Atlas Shrugged Disclaimer
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:53:58 GMT


Hi! I received this in personal mail:

One of my (very intellectual) friends consumed Atlas
Shrugged and it took me months to help him fight off the ensuing depression.
While *I* didn't have any similar problem with it, I can see it causing
profound depression in others if they are intellectually and emotionally
vulnerable at the time of the reading.

My response:

When I read _A.S._ the first time, I was just remembering the first bit
of the past, and the book really helped. I realized other people had felt
isolated and relying on yourself was a great thing.

But then I read it again about 6 months ago, and I got really frustrated that
these minds I could understand had to literally remove themselves from the
world and hide in Utopia in order to survive. As that has no real life
applications, I sort of figured I didn't belong in the active world, and
that depressed me. Obviously, I didn't take it too seriously, because I'm
writing now, but I had certainly forgotten the depression it gave me
the second time around.

So, I guess that's a warning for anyone who decides to read it. Despite
the depression the second time around, I still think _Atlas Shrugged_ 
is the most valuable book I've ever read.

-Anne
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: CHAPTER 3...
From: Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 20:34:05 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.

In article <793XqB1w164w@penn.Gwinnett.COM> tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney) writes:
[...]
>being a sorta usenett tech 0, HOW do I inform the local postmaster?
>(send me e-mail on how)
>and I will be more that HAPPY to do so-

This ought to be general knowledge anyway, even if only to locate
someone, whom you think is at that host.

post.master@penn.Gwinnett.COM

Would get to *your* local post master, essentially it is the relevant
full host name after the "@".


Gavin
-- 
Tomorrow's Society                              | flower_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
    Depends on                                   ----------------------------
Today's Children  - help us raise them properly! 
*******  These comments have no known correlation with dept. policy!  *******
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: Re: post
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:00:51 GMT



Please everyone, let's not resurrect the discussion of what sort of advice
to give to poohbear, what poohbear needs and is or is not capable of.  Yes,
I'm concerned that it will upset people besides myself, but I'm posting
for myself.  It upsets me because it makes me afraid that when people ask
others to stop doing something to them that hurts, other people won't stop.
Perhaps I interpret the situation differently.  At any rate, I'm feeling a 
bit scared.

Jeff, perhaps you could say what you want to say without referring to the   
discussions going on here?  Perhaps you could use times that people have
used the, "I like you so change" statements towards _you_.  If you tell
me how it made you feel, I'll understand better.  Otherwise I tend to 
feel like you're just endlessly theorizing with no basis in personal 
experience--now, i know that there probably is a lot behind the views
you're expressing, but I can't see how your views connect with your life.
I like to understand people's views even when I don't agree with them.  What
you say here _seems_ so different from what I think that I'm anxious to 
understand it better.

Take care everyone!!

Sherri


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: walner@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Shimon Walner)
Subject: Greetings from Hineni
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:32:45 GMT

Hi, folks.

Seems as though whenever I'm away from asar for a little while, all sorts of
dramatic things happen.  I missed the latest Relkie/Prisoner(Wells) and I am
curious as to what happened.  I'd appreciate a summary VIA E-MAIL ONLY please.

PANDA, welcome back buddy.
Ted, what's this about staying away..?
Cloister, Continuing apologies re: FAQ

Welcome to all the new folks and welcome back to everyone else who's
been away.

Sounds like a close friend of mine (former lover, abuse survivor, etc.) may
be dying soon.  Voluntarily, but with the rapes, homelessness, abandonment,
hopelessness, chronic physical pain and depression of the last several years...
she's been quite the fighter.

Naturally there is always hope, etc., and I am doing what I can for her.
But it's difficult to witness and I intend to get some support from a 
professional. (And my wife is also being wonderful, as ever).

More later,
Shimon Walner
"Hineni"
From: joey@q7.tessi.com (Joe Pruett)
Subject: Re: Hints for SO's (Spoiler Warning)
Organization: Q7 Enterprises
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:19:15 GMT

i'm happy to see some of the so's coming out of the woodwork.  i've
been lurking around for more than a year, and i think that maybe it
would be a good thing to create alt.sexual.abuse.partners or something
in that vein.  there are a lot of things i would like to talk to other
partners about, but i think they could cause quite a ruckus if
discussed in asar (spoilers or not).  what do you all think?

this is *not* an official call for votes (i'm not even sure what
the current policy is for alt groups this week :-).
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: taylor@hardy.u.washington.edu (Allen D. Taylor)
Subject: Re: Amends revisited
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:30:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.201851.27339@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> ebh@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Ed Horch) writes:
>
>
>But for me, part of rigorous honesty is knowing where a resentment
>comes from.  In many cases, it points to a conflict to which I also
>contributed, so it's likely that I owe amends for my contribution.
>However, there are other conflicts that I can honestly say I didn't
>contribute to.  I was abused too.  I may owe amends to my abusers 
>for other things I might have done, but I certainly do not owe amends
>for the abuse itself, because it *wasn't* *my* *fault*.
>
>If the Big Book and the 12&12 say that any time I have a resentment I
>automatically owe an amends, that if every time I am wronged I am auto-
>matically in the wrong myself, then the Big Book and 12&12 are wrong.
>
>-Ed
I'm sorry, I couldn't stay away from this one.  I am not an abuse victim,
I am an abuse survivor.  However, my question is, where in the BB or 12&12 
does it say that a resentment automatically gets an amends. I want to
see citations.
 
That sounded caustic upon re-reading.  I don't mean it to sound like that.
I really would like to see where that idea comes from.

I have not been able to absolve my abusers.
But I have been able to forgive my abusers.  I reached that point after years
of therapy and hard work.  Websters 7th Dictionary defines the verb forgive as
"to cease to feel resentment against an offender."  That I can do because
resentments are inside me.  It defines absolve as "to set free from the
consequences of guilt."  That I cannot do because quilt, if it exists, is
inside the perpetrator.  It defines excuse as "to remove blame from."  Forget
it.  That I won't do.  When I let go of my resentments against my abusers,
I felt freed of their power over me.  While I held onto the resentment, I
was giving them power.

This is what worked for me.  It may or may not work for you.  I only speak
for myself.

Peace, Love, and Serenity

 
--Allen

==============================================================================
Allen D. Taylor       University of Washington   taylor@cac.washington.edu
Information Systems   Seattle, Washington  USA   Human 1st - World Citizen 2nd
==============================================================================
From: rdh@Veritas.COM (Robert Hartman)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: let's not challenge differing opinions  (was: Richard ...)
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:17:59 GMT
Organization: VERITAS Software

In article <1992Sep4.125032.368@news.unomaha.edu> sanders@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sue Sanders) writes:
>The amusing thing I find about your post, r., is that in one breath you
>suggest to someone that they are wrong to challenge someone else's idea's.
>Isn't that what you have just done?  Just curious???

Hmmm.  I suppose one could look at it that way.  I think it depends on
how something is put.  If I didn't put it all that well then I stand
corrected.  I think that I put it in the form of "this is how it
appears to me ... may I suggest that we not do that in future?"  I don't
think I ever said, "you are wrong."  It might have been better if I'd
prefaced it by saying that my perception could be in error.  If so, I'll
do better next time.

I think that there is a big difference between saying, "my view is
different from yours, and here's why," and, "yours is in the
minority."   Perhaps it is a matter of semantics, but then, so might be
the difference between giving advice and making suggestions.

The person I responded to appeared to me to be indulging in "baiting"
--behavior that I found hostile.  If someone had done the equivalent
things in a meeting--breaking another's anonymity, asking probing
questions, citing common opinion to devalue another's view--it would
not go unchallenged.  I don't see why that sort of behavior should go
unchallenged here.

I have no problem with the belief that easier measures availed us
nothing.  Had the person left it at saying, "this is what the book
says, and what I believe," I'd have had no problem with that.  But
there's a subtle difference between sharing the program and shoving it
down someone's throat.  Perhaps my childhood involvement with
Fundamentalists has made me oversensitive to the issue.  In any case,
the Steps are what worked for me.

>Deversity makes AA the program I love.  Just because I wouldn't want John/Jane
>Does program doesn't mean it doesn't work for them.  Also, I have suggested to
>a few people that maybe that don't need AA.  If someone really needs the 
>program it will be here.
>
>Sue

I agree, and I'd like to add that the safety of the program is of
paramount importance to me.  If the program couldn't provide me with a
safe place to say whatever is on my mind, even if it doesn't jibe with
the book upon occasion, it wouldn't work for me.

It was in that spirit that I made my response.

-r
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: psm@cs.brown.edu (Phoebe Martone)
Subject: alternative to AA
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:16:44 GMT


SECULAR HEALING - Addiction (info was in LEAR'S July 1992)

Jack Trimpy, a social worker in California, recognized in the 70's
that he had a serious problem w/alcohol. Like millions of people,
he went to AA. However, the AA program didn't work for him. In fact he
experienced an immediate aversion to the tone and content of the
meetings..."I felt I'd rather be a drunk than dependent or powerless."
By 1981, his addictive drinking "was so painful to me ..that I decided
I would quit on my own or die."

He founded Rational Recovery Systems. "In 6 mos. I starte dto feel
feelings
I hadn't felt for a long time--bright new feelings. ..It's what
happens when you quite drinking alcohol...At first I thought I was
special..
Then I found out that people stop drinking this way all the time, but
we don't hear about it..We do ahve the ability to exercise free will."

He published in 1989 "The Small Book" which opposes the teenets of AA
(notably the program's insistence on belief in a higher power--and
trashes the 12 steps as religious in nature, binding believers to a
lifetime
in AA.

Conversely, RRS is short term, depending on the needs of the
individual.

"This is a crash course in growing up. It's called self-control."

Trimpey is well aware that in the recovery game AA is still the big
guy on the block. He wd like to end that--particularly where AA is
court mandated or foisted upon employees of corporations, govt.
agencies,
the military. He encourages people to seek legal remedies when forced
into the 12 step programs.

RR grops now function in 400 American cities and are open to anyone
who's serious about getting sober and wants to do it outside a
spiritual setting. Says Trimpey: "I hope AA is happy to find out
we're good. I'm glad they exist. If I'm a Democrat, I'm glad there are
Republicans. Anything else is tyranny."

For more info: Rational Recovery P.O. Box 800, Lotus, CA 95651
or call 916 621-2667.




I just had to share this. I think it's so exciting.
Phoebe at Computer Science Dept. Brown University


Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: sanders@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sue Sanders)
Subject: Re: Amends revisited
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Distribution: alt
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:03:58 GMT

First of all, as someone else pointed out, talk to your sponsor.  I couldnt
tell from your post if you had even done your 4th and 5th steps yet.  If you
havent then dont put the cart before the horse.  The steps are in order for
a reason.  No sense worrying about the amends you need to make until you get
there.  

If you are at making the list or even past that, I had a similar situation with
my step mother.  Couldnt stand the woman.  Put her in the never column when
it came to when I would make amends.  (my sponsor made me change it to the 
someday column) Anyway, I just got busy making the amends I was
ready and able to make first.  Years later, my step mother got diabetes.
She had to come to the city I live to be taught how to give herself daily
injections.  I was the only person here she knew so, having had a few years
of education in the program, I realized I needed to be of service to her.

After all of that I found I was sad a bit when she went back home.  (It shocked
me to no end.)  We have a fair relationship now.  I still havent made the 
formal amends but I have put the footwork down by just changing my behavior 
towards her.  My point after this lengthy story is just do the things your 
sponsor suggests and believe the line that says god will constantly disclose
more to you....

Sue

an aside -  After I finally accepted my stepmother for who she was and started
            working on a relationship with her, my dad divorced her.  We still
            keep in touch, but doesnt god have a wicked sense of humor?
From: al037@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Polewka)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: I WANT A BEER!!!
Date: 9 Sep 1992 22:50:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: al037@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Polewka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, maxwell@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mark Story) says:

>Worry not, world. 

We're not worrying---we have faith!   (don't we?)

>I haven't had one yet.

When was the last time you had *just one*?!?!?


-- 
=======================
"Endeavor to persevere"
=======================
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: AA beliefs?
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:52:03 GMT

barbaraj@csc.ti.com (Heart Dancer) writes:

>Somewhere in AA dogma (I'm sure many of you know exactly where!) is the 
>thought about the easier, softer way availed us nothing.  What I hear
>Richard saying is that for some people, the easier, softer way worked.

>Some of you may say that because I was able to stop drinking on my
>own, gradually, and because I can drink an occasional drink without
>going on a bender, that I'm not an alcoholic, but I think you would
>have thought differently if you had been hanging out with me 10-12
>years ago.

O Heart Dancer,
  ..that is one of the reasons why _we_ are careful never to call another
person alcoholic!

	On Page 21 of the Big Book, it says:

	"a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough 
	to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him
	to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason
	- ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning
	of a doctor- becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, 
	although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need 
	medical attention.
		But what about the real alcoholic?"

	If a person _can_ quit, then, at least by the definition of the Big
Book, he _isn't_ an alcoholic. And if he can quit, then why is he worried
about what us alcoholics think 8-)?

love and service,
jim p.
-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)461-4922  
This life is a test. It is only a test. If it had been a real life, you 
would have been given instructions....
Newsgroups: alt.recovery,talk.politics.drugs
From: weiss@LEOPARD.CS.UIDAHO.EDU (Phil Weiss)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Testing...
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:40:04 GMT

Sorry to bother you folks.  My regular method of posting
is getting irregular.  I am trying to see if a Mail->News
gateway works.  Please don't reply.

Phil.

--
Philip Weiss	Laboratory for Applied Logic	weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu
(Disclaimer: My views are not their views)	weiss872@snake.cs.uidaho.edu
From: amigan@cup.portal.com (R Michael Medwid)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Retreat
Date: Mon,  7 Sep 92 19:48:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

I went to this *A retreat this weekend in Sonoma county..way way out in the
middle of nowhere.  It took many miles of dirt road to get there..up and
down so many hills..so many turns.  But boy was it beautiful.  And they had
this swimming hole at the ranch with refreshing spring water complete with
a little row boat and inner tubes.  We played a lot of water frisbee and
water nurf football.  It was healing to see so many adults acting so
silly.  

There were several meetings.  We sang, played guitar, drummed, made 
painted t-shirts.  Everyone had to do some service and cook for this
group of 20.  This turned out to be fun too.  

I related to some people..others kept their distance and me mine.  
I saw some people I only get to see occasionally at meetings..
so I got to catch up on some old friendships and start a few
new ones.  There was difference of opinion..and there was sharing
and resolution.  

I camped outside in a tent under these fig trees.  The racoons were
in 7th heaven..easy food.  Great weekend!
Newsgroups: alt.recovery,talk.politics.drugs