HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rotheroe@convex.com (Dave Rotheroe)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Security system info wanted
Date: 16 Nov 92 00:42:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: convex.rotheroe.721874559
Distribution: usa
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

>>I recently purchased a house with a security system monitored by
>>Security Link. We had two additional motion detectors installed. The
>>price Security Link charged for installing these devices was
>>outrageous.  I was wondering if it is possible to purchase motion
>>detectors and other upgrades to the system and install them yourself.
>>have looked in the local yellow pages for stores that sell security

>I need to install a complete system.  I would ideally like to do
>all the installation myself but I want a system that is "monitored"
>(ie. calls the police dept when it's alerted).  Are there any
>manufacturers that sell such systems that don't require paying
>outrageous installation fees but that also are "monitored"?

*IF* your handy with tools, install it yourself.  I'm literally finishing
up an installation myself (still have to connect the power and phone
line).  It cost me about $4/window or door, $45 a motion detector, $25 for
a 3' drill bit, $250 for panel, control, siren, battery, and misc.  I had
several rolls of wire, so was able to save say $50 there.  The labor
wasn't that bad, taking about 20 hours total max.  I can choose from a
number of monitoring companies that will "connect" for free and monitor
for $20/month.  My cost is about what the companies want to install a
3 door / 1 motion system no matter what "special" they seem to have at the
minute (lower initial / higher monthly or higher initial / lower monthly),
and I own the equipment

==================================================================8--<
Dave Rotheroe                rotheroe@convex.com              DoD#0045
CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX 75083-3851, (214) 497-4512

Death is a reward for being responsible.
From: pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: R-values
Date: 17 Nov 92 06:19:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1e9hivINNodg@morrow.stanford.edu> GA.MCL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark C. Lawrence) writes:
>Presumably there is an
>optimum that gives best insulation (maximum R-value) in a given wall
>thickness.  I would even go so far as to assume that the insulation you buy is
>in fact at this optimum density when installed in a wall of the specified
>thickness.

You could assume that if you had never reviewed the products actually
offered on the market. If you had, you'd know that you can buy products
of different R-values for the same thickness.

>My reasoning:  If a lower density would achieve a better R-value, that would
>be how they'd sell it, as it would be cheaper to make and thus more profitable
>for the manufacturer.  If a higher density would achieve a better R-value, you
>would be able to buy insulation with higher R-values for a given thickness,
>e.g., 3-1/2 inch R-19 or some such.

And indeed you can. According to Owens-Corning Fiberglas Corporation
Pub. No. 6-BLR-15966-B, printed July 1992, the folowing products are
available:

 R-11,  3.50"
*R-13,  3.50"
*R-15,  3.50"
 R-19,  6.25"
*R-21,  5.50"
 R-25,  8.00"
*R-30,  8.25"
 R-30,  9.50"
*R-38, 10.25"
 R-38, 12.00"

* higher density product

"R-15 is a much denser product (more fibers per square inch) [than R-11
for 2x4 walls] and, therefore, gives you greater insulating power".

"Same thickness with more fibers per square inch means more density
and higher R-value".

Perhaps we should write to Mr. Pink and tell him that solid glass is
a poor insulator.

-- 
My opinions are my own.
From: dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD L. HARDY)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Getting Ready to Sell House: How to Make it Most Appealing?
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:07:52 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>In any case, I'm on the side of the personalized house; bare walls,
>bland color, and a general sense of sterility don't turn me on.

I'm forced to agree.  People told me I'd never sell my place...it was too
"specific."  1894 Victorian which still needed work, with a navy blue (almost
black) entry, stair, and upstairs hall, spinach green living room, and
eggplant dining room, with appropriately old furniture.  Not a victorian
retro with all the antimacassars and dried flower sachets, but rather English
Club Elegant.

Sold it to the first fellow who walked through the door.  And this in a
completely dead market.  Without a realtor.

My suggestion.  Eliminate clutter, eliminate dust, eliminate odors.  Minimize
knick knacks and chotzkes.  Clean out the closets and kitchen cabinets.
Otherwise, have it express home, and you.  Don't paint unless it is a
maintenance problem.  Never put up new wall paper.  Consult your realtor on
the baking bread/reading by the fireplace things.  *I* would be uncomfortable
with family members about.

Good Luck!

D.
-- 

******************************************************************************

Donald L. Hardy                                    Office of Physical Planning
Project Planner                                    Lehigh University
dh0a@lehigh.edu                                    (215) 758 5110
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: andyw@meaddata.com (Andy Welter)
Subject: Re: Kerby Vacuum Cleaners Information
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:05:44 GMT
Reply-To: andyw@meaddata.com
Distribution: usa

In article 25455@porthos.cc.bellcore.com, patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r) writes:
>In article <BxtGyx.8yF@mail.boi.hp.com> ahill@boi.hp.com writes:
>
>>The sales organization is a pyramid, with fairly large markups at each
>>level.  Based on guesstimates from an ex-Kirby salesman, I derived an
>>approximate pricing chart:
>
>I don't know what the organization actually is, but it is *not* a
>pyramid. These have been against Federal law for nearly twenty years.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>                    | Keep away from people who try to belittle your
>George Patterson -  | ambitions. Small people always do that, but the
>                    | really great make you feel that you, too, can
>                    | become great.          Samuel Clemens
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

If pyramid scams are illegal, where does that leave the Social Security system???

(I'd put a smiley here if it wasn't so sad)

---
|Andrew Welter	     |  All views are mine and not |      (513) 865-6822   
|Mead Data Central   |    that of my employer      |      pd&o-ps-ts-dsp       
|P.O. Box 933        |                             |     andyw@meaddata.com
|Dayton, Ohio  45401 |          	           | ...!uunet!meaddata!andyw

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: AMILLSAP@cmsa.gmr.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Source for nice plumbing fixtures
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:12:55 GMT
Organization: GM Research Labs

In article <1992Nov18.152535.7449@cello.hpl.hp.com>
cchao@cello.hpl.hp.com (Chia Chao) writes:

>
>We are looking for a some bathroom faucets. We went to a specialty
>shop and saw many very nice ones---but the price! Is there any way to
>get nice fixtures at good price?  Perhaps mail-order house or
>distributor sale to end-user? Any othe ideas are also welcome.
>
>Chia Chao
>cchao@hpl.hp.com
>

I recently obtained several local bids for complete set of fixtures for the
house I am building.  I am a licensed builder (though it is not my REAL job).
and got builders prices.  Two pieces of information:

1) Plumbers will always get a better price than you.  This is true even for
   builders.  The theory goes that the if a supplier gives you an equivalent
   discount he will offend the plumber, and the plumber is a much more valued
   customer than you are.  If you can find an honest supplier he will verify
   this.  The hard part is deciding whether the best price you can negotiate
   is better than what the plumber (after adding his profit margin) will sell
   to you for.

2) Having said this I will tell you that there is a mail-order plumbing outfit
   which I submitted my fixture list to that was able to better the price of
   all of my local suppliers.  The fact that I was a builder was not a factor.
   The name of the place is Paragon Products in Oceanside, NY.  Their phone
   number is 1-800-A-FAUCET (my, how clever) and they DO carry the nice stuff.

In my case, the fixtures were significantly cheaper than my local bids, and the
fact that I would have to pay shipping is roughly offset by not having to pay
sales tax.

Since I am still negotiating with my plumber, I have not yet ordered.  If
anyone actually does order through them, I'd be interested in hearing about
the experience (i.e. promptness of delivery, pricing, success/failure at
haggling).

By the way, they will match any advertised price up to 100 days after ordering.

Obligatory disclaimer:  I am in no way associated with  Paragon products.

Good Luck,
Arnie
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Security system info wanted
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 19:22:15 CST
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

gse@gsbux1 (George Easton ) writes:

> 
> I recently purchased a house with a security system monitored by
> Security Link. We had two additional motion detectors installed. The
> price Security Link charged for installing these devices was
> outrageous.  I was wondering if it is possible to purchase motion
> detectors and other upgrades to the system and install them yourself. I
> have looked in the local yellow pages for stores that sell security
> system components and have found nothing that looks promising.
> 
> My questions are: 1) Are there mail order companies that sell security
> system components? 2) What technical information is required to install
> the devices properly and where can one get it?

Another question is: Will Security Link let you install new sensors
or upgrade the system? Might want to check the agreement with them;
I suspect you'll find this subject mentioned.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
From: bleier@cognos-centi.com (Alan Bleier)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Jacuzzi "Magic Touch" switch problem
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:59:46 GMT
Reply-To: bleier@cognos-centi.com
Organization: Visual Understanding Systems, Pgh PA

PLEASE REPLY BY EMAIL

Our Jacuzzi brand tub, about 7 years old, has a "Magic Touch" switch which is  
a plate which just needs to be touched to make the pump turn on and off.   
Except now when you touch the switch, it either comes on and shuts off a few  
seconds later, or it doesn't switch on at all.  

I've taken out the switch (taking appropriate electrical precautions even  
though it's a low voltage system) and gone to a local parts supplier, where I  
found out I can replace the rubber pad and spring under the metal plate for  
$3.  

I don't know if this will fix the problem, though.  The Jacuzzi parts catalog  
doesn't have the control box for this thing in it any more, but it does have a  
"conversion kit" for replacing the whole thing with an air-operated switch.   
This leads me to suspect that the "Magic Touch" switch was found to be  
unreliable and replacing it with the conversion kit is the best solution.

Has anyone had experience with this?

PLEASE REPLY BY EMAIL and I'll summarize if there's interest.

Alan
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: randyw@iplmail.orl.mmc.com (Randy Walker)
Subject: Re: Need info: HOUSE FOR SALE BY OWNER
Keywords: help
Organization: Martin Marietta
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:08:27 GMT


> My wife and I are trying to sell our house, and have been very 
> dis-satisfied with the results our realtor has produced (none).

> I would like to find out how easy/difficult it is to sell "by owner".
> Can we get into the multiple listings?  Are there other places to advertise?
> How do we handle the legal stuff?  What are the ins and outs of owner-
> financing?  And what would it all cost?

> We want to move as soon as possible, since this area is draining us dry
> financially :-(


 In my opinion, anyone that asks questions like these should not attempt to
 sell a house without the assistance of an agent.

 I have bought and sold several investment properties and I have found that
 you will run into two types of buyers: rookies who know very little about
 the process whom you have to lead by the hand and savvy investors who will
 try to take advantage of you. In both cases, an experienced agent is
 invaluable.

 If you are unhappy with your present agent, talk to the agent's broker and
 explain politely but assertively what you wish to be done. You might ask for
 a different agent or a minimum amount of weekly advertising, etc. Some 
 people recommend offering a bonus of some kind to the selling agent which 
 might get other agents interested in selling your house.

 If you want to move as soon as possible, take an objective look at your
 house with an eye to make it as desirable as possible and lower your asking
 price.

 Randy Walker
From: GA.MCL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark C. Lawrence)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Neighborhood from hell
Date: 23 Nov 1992 17:30:50 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov21.140321.5749@desire.wright.edu>,
sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
>
>Just want to warn you house shoppers out there about possibilities of moving
>into the neighborhood-from-hell.   This happened to a friend of mine.  She and
>her family live with his parents, it's an extended family setup, primarily to
>assist everyone, her husband's grandfather is an invalid and my friend helps
>with his care in exchange for housing.  Her inlaws bought this big beautiful
>house on three acres in a plat that had been developed several miles from town.

>They did not know when they moved in (the agent didn't tell them until the
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>papers were all signed) that the plat had an owners' organization and that
>the Owners' Organization could make rules and regulations as to how you used
>your land, any modifications to the house, outbuildings, etc.
[details of horror story deleted]

Did they sign some kind of acceptance of these restrictions, or were the
restrictions not disclosed?  If the latter, seems they could back out of the
purchase and/or sue the realtors and/or sellers.

Anyone have suggestions on how to avoid this?  Obviously one answer is "read
and understand all the legalese" but this is easier said than done.  Can you
put a contingency in your offer of "no CC&Rs are accepted" or some such?

Mark C. Lawrence
Systems Programmer     Internet: M.Lawrence@Forsythe.Stanford.edu
Stanford Data Center     Bitnet: M.Lawrence@STANFORD
Stanford, CA 94305-4136     Tel: (415) 723-4976
From: darrenl@natinst.com (Darren Lilie)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Do I lay floor tile before or after installing kitchen cabinets?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 15:08:27 -0600
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: eagle.natinst.com

I will be laying vinyl floor tile in the kitchen which already has all the
old cabinets ripped out.  I was wondering what to put in first, the floor
or the cabinets.
If the floor goes in first it will be easier to install because I wont have to
cut around the cabinets but the floor may be damaged while I install the  
cabinets. Also there will be wasted tiles(at 2.49 each) underneath the 
cabinets.
I would like to hear from people that have done it either way to help me with
my decision.

Thanks,
Darren
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Splinter prevention
Date: 22 Nov 92 18:46:34 GMT
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <kV4LuB1w161w@cdthq.UUCP> gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston) writes:
|hmoss@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Howard Moss) writes:

|> Well, I'm the "official" handyman at my daughter's nursery school and
|> they have a new complaint that I'd like to ask your opinion about:

|> Splinters!
|> The play house is old and the wood has generated a lot of splinters in
|> the hands of 2-4 year olds. Also, the new wood play structure has
|> a BIG knot that seems to be coming off in pieces and that generates a 
|> lot of splinters, too. The redwood picnic table is also being looked
|> at. What are good ways to deal with this, especially since we're
|> heading for the rainy season. Should I just sand all the surfaces 
|> smooth? Won't the rains just render that useless? How about sealing
|> the wood, like with paint or polyurethane? Is that ok to do now that
|> the wood is swelling up with moisture from the rains? Another choice
|> could be a waterproof stain or something like that. Would that seal
|> the wood so the splinters would not be present?

|The wood should be sanded and either sealed or painted, and it'll
|probably need this every year or two. It would be best to seal after
|a week of dry weather, of course, but you may only have a few days
|of drying fitting into your schedule. Make sure that whatever you
|use is non-toxic...

|Polyurethane probably wouldn't hold up outdoors, particulalry
|during the summer. Something like Thompsons' Water Seal would be
|better, preferrably two coats of it. 

I'll second that.  If the surface is sanded, then sealed/painted,
it'll stay splinter-free a lot longer.  Redwood is supposed to be
particularly bad for splintering.  Ditto plywood.

As Gary says, most polyurethanes will degrade outdoors pretty quickly,
and lose their splinter-inhibit properties.

Thompson's (or one of the other sealers) is a good choice.  Outdoor
spar varnish is another.  Most of these things tend to wear off
in only a couple of years.

One thing to consider: Most of the sealers (including Thompson's)
won't block UV, so your redwood (ditto cedar) will fade to grey.

Finding a UV-blocking clear sealer is somewhat more difficult.
Thompson's, for example, recommends staining first...

We did Gregory's cedar playset with Thompson's, because we want it
to fade.  Guess I'll have to recoat it every 2-3 years.

One way to deal with the knot is to dig out the surface, and fill
it with an outdoor-capable filler.  Some of the solvent-type wood
fillers might be a good choice.  There's also a wood repair gunk
used for repairing rotted wood (eg: window frames) that will definately
stand up to the environment.  You could even use bondo or other
car repair body fillers.  I've even used polyfilla (covered with
oil-base paint).
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Thermostat fun (freezing pipes)
Organization: OSF Research Institute
	<1992Nov20.175535.1694@osf.org>
	<1992Nov20.183754.25322@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
Distribution: na
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:07:14

Setting back thermostats is an excellent idea because it saves energy
(and therefore dollars).  With hot water systems, there is one case to
be careful of, however.  I know this from personal experience.

In some houses, heat pipes run through unheated areas such as crawl
spaces or outside walls.  In normal operation, they can't freeze since
the water gets heated every so often as the circulator kicks in (when
the temperature goes down by 0.5 F or so).  However, when the
thermostat setting is reduced, it may take a lot longer before the
circulator runs -- if you reduce the setting from, say, 68 F to 55 F,
perhaps 25 times longer.  On a very cold day, this may be enough to
let the pipe freeze and possibly burst.

The lesson is: if you have a hot water heat system with uninsulated
pipes running in unheated areas, on very cold days (especially if
there's wind), DO NOT set back the thermostat.  Insulating the pipes
will help avoid this problem, as well as reducing energy loss, but
such pipes aren't always easily accessible.

	-s
From: egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Getting Ready to Sell House: How to Ma
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:30:15 GMT
Reply-To: egreen@east.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 41@helix.nih.gov, rohrernl@helix.nih.gov (Nathan Rohrer) writes:
>
>>Tell us some more about these non-REALTOR sponsored computer listings.
>
>>I completely agree that once there is something to overcome the MLS
>>monopoly, there will be no reason to pay 6-7% for a realtor
>
>YES!  Tell us more.  I would be very interested.

I can't seem to find the article I clipped (naturally!).  A recent
Sunday edition of the Raleigh newspaper's Real Estate section had the
number of a local (I think) BBS type system dedicated to RE listings.
It article stated it was modeled after MLS, listing the same type of
data in a similar format, but would not be restricted to RE agents.
Searches on various fields would be possible.  I believe there will be
a charge for listing, and access to the entire database will be free.

Given the ubiquious PC, and the fact that the line between consumer
electronics and home computers is getting progressively fuzzier, I
believe such services will flourish.  I'm not aware of any national
effort at standardization, but the way these things tend to happen in
the PC world is that the top one or two BBS S/W packages get traded
among sysops, and a de facto standard falls out as a result.

CompuServe, Prodigy (ugh!), and similar on-line services are natural
candidates for regional MLS-type listings.  USENET has several regional
for-sale newsgroups, which could easily spawn RE groups if the number
of posts justifies it (with the additional benefit of a standard format
being part of the charter, with a boilerplate in a FAQ for people to
follow).

It will happen.  It is the nature of information to disseminate, and
with the technology becoming more readily available, it will find a way
to do so.  There is no inherent reason why access to RE listings should
be restricted to RE agents, and that monolopy will end.

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: fsf@hpic006.mentorg.com (Rick Farnbach)
Subject: Re: How to cut back my heat bill?
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:47:56
Distribution: na
	<1992Nov21.020021.25088@adobe.com> <10925@wrgate.wr.tek.com>
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corp. Wilsonville, OR

There's been lots of talk about using resistive heating rather than (or in
addition to) the heat pump when the house is really cold, but I just don't
understand why you'd even want this.

The efficiency of the heat pump is inversely related to the temperature
differential between the cold source (outside) and the hot source (inside).
Thus, your heat pump will save you the most energy when it is warmer outside,
or when it is cooler inside.  When you first turn the heat pump on after the
house has cooled, it should be enormously more efficient at moving heat into
the house than when it is running in temperature maintenance mode.  In
temperature maintenance mode it is trying to move heat into a hotter
environment, which is harder to do.

Why do heat pump manufacturers put in these self defeating thermostats that
turn on resistive heat sources during the interval when the heat pump would be
at its best?

It seems you really should use the resisistive heating only to get those last
couple of degrees of warmth, not to get the first few.  If your heat pump
isn't going to be able to get the job done, it will be at the top end not the
bottom end of the temperature scale that it will need help.

Rick
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house