From: jamesh@aifh.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton)
Newsgroups: talk.environment
Subject: Re: Why do they hate us?
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:50:59 GMT
Reply-To: jamesh@aifh.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton)
Organization: Dept of AI, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1992Dec15.135124.1011@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>,
constant@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Tino) writes:
# I abhor environmentalism because it is not based on science, like it 
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is utter rubbish. There are mountains of scientific reports which tell us
what we
are doing to our environment, which tell us the effects of all the pollution
we create,
which tell us what the effects of global warming will be, which tell us what
the 
economic and social consequences of our disregard for the environment would
be. What you
are saying  is just plainly wrong.

# should be, but rather on faith, guilt, and emotion.
# 
# From a scientific standpoint, many environmental groups (GP included) are
# a "frightening laughingstock". Their methods rely on fear, guilt, and 
# emotion.  Admit it (they themselves do), scaring the shit out of
# people is a lot more effective than showing them figures and tables.

Yes, but when their claims have strong evidence to support them, ie figures
and tables
and reports (which Greenpeace can produce), then I see no reason why
Greenpeace should
not attract the publicity to these issues that they believe in and have
evidence to 
substantiate with.

# Though they might not want to admit it, our standard of living is based on
# our technology.  It sounds romantic, but solar cookers aren't going to 
# replace a big power plant anytime soon, nor is the world going to become a 
# seething pot of fire and brimstone.

Funnily enough solar power is becoming more and more attractive each year and
is 
expected to be competitive within the decade.

# >If someone wants to enrich
# >himself by destroying the last old-growth of the Pacific Northwest, for 
# >example, and the rest of us pass a law to prevent him from doing so, that
# 
# I kinda like trees. 

Me too.

# >They think of themselves as very strong, and they hate
# >it above all else when those whom they think of as weak band together in
# >democracies to prevent them from riding roughshod over everybody and 
# >everything.
# 
# Wow.
# I hate it when a law is passed that is completely without scientific basis
# due to public fear. For example, are "nuclear-free" cities allowed to have
# hospitals in them? Not according to the law...

By nuclear free I think they mean nuclear power free or nuclear weapons free.
And funnily enough there is a scientific basis for the anti-nuclear position
of many
environmentalists...

# >*Naturally* they hate environmentalism. It's to be expected. It's in the
way
# >of their (real or imagined) self-aggrandizement.
# 
# No, I think it's due to the irrationality of the environmentalists.

Sorry, but there's a LOT of rational science behind the environmental
movement,
I think the real reason why many right wingers hate environmentalism is
because it
is opposed to the no holds barred free market thinking of right wingers and
what looks
irrational under that view sudden becomes rational when you look at the facts
that
environmentalists have been drawing attention to.


# Tino

James

-- 
*  James Hammerton               *  If Pascal is equivalent to the     *
*  Email: jamesh@uk.ac.ed.aisb   *  mini-metro,then ML is the concept  *
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