HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: RE: The Anonymous Service: This Waiter Has A Fake Accent
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:30:17 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov wrote:
>In article <1992Aug17.075130.26171@qiclab.scn.rain.com>, 
>sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley) writes:
>>>Anything I could say would be taken as manipulative.
>>>
>>>I'm sorry I caused all this fuss.
>>>
>>>I won't bother you any more.
>> 
>> this is *exactly* what i mean by you being manipulative. you suddenly
>> reappear in the group with some very heavy things to say, then when
>> somebody expresses a concern that they are uncomfortable with the
>> manner in which you are presenting your information, you adopt the
>> "i'm sorry. i was just..., i was only..., i'll go away" stance. how
> 
>Sally, you're really something.  First you lay a guilt trip on her for
>appearing manipulative, then when she feels guilty and communicates this, you
>do it again.  Just fucking amazing.  And pretty manipulative of you.  So tell 
>me, how could Relkie respond that *wouldn;t* make you feel manipulated?

I've been away awhile, just monitoring the group a little bit.  I can't
stay out of this anymore.  

I share many of the sentiments Sally has expressed.
Relkie's "I won't bother you anymore" was nothing more than a manipulative
whine.  If she was truly interested in understanding what has been said,
or feels that these statements were unfair, she could either engage in
a conversation about why people think this of her or to defend herself.
Saying that just because she does not get her way she will leave simply 
*is* manipulative.  She did exactly what she did before.  She wants every
one to now chime in that we all want her to stay.  It's just a way to get
attention and possibly some short-term self-esteem.  Real self-esteem
doesn't come that way.

Relkie, you are still young.  Maybe too young to actually understand this.
I probably was too young to understand this two years ago.  I wish you
well.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1193@twwells.com
Subject: Re: PBS documentary "Promise Not to Tell"
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:12:12 GMT

Hi all,
	I just got back into town & found my local hard drive singing the 
blues :(.  So if anyone sent me email in last week I didn't get it.

Hi Bill,
	The reason I delete so much from posts I respond to is that I don't
know enough about our news reader & its interaction with openwindows to be
able to use it properly.  Therefore when I respond I get to retype parts of
posts into my outgoing mail message :(.  Therefore my editting is sometimes
severe!

> Please M&M, I respect your anger, but direct it at someone who 
> opposes you.  I do not.  I simply see a different road to the same
> end.

After reading many of your subsequent posts I understand your road a 
little clearer.  I too believe that the answer does not lie in the courts
or with 'the government'.  The answere lies in each of us breaking the 
cycle and being vocal about breaking that cycle.  Turning on the light.
This is a gross generalization but one of the things many people who are
abusers have in common is that it is secret & they are extremely concerned
with their mask as seen by the world.  I hope that maybe if people realize 
if they abuse a child in any way, that one day that child will unmask them,
and this might act as a further disincentive - as I write this is seems
pretty lame.
	Maybe the main motivation for speaking their name is to let go of
some of my shame.  Also to finally stand up to them & say "you can't trick
me, scare me, beat me, shame me into silence any more.

A quick note regarding lie detector tests.  I am involved in an industry that
uses them extensively.  While I have no direct experience with them I have 
close friends who have.  There appears to be 2 things that would make these 
tests pretty useless for indicating innocence/guilt  regarding sexual abuse.
THe first is the reports by many abusers that they do not remember abusing
soemone.  At first I got angry at these reports & couldn't believe it.  Now
as I see how dissasociation works in my life as being on the receiving end of
sexual abuse, I am more inclined to believe perpetrators might also dissociate
during episodes of abuse.
The second issue is that for a lie detector test to work the person must feel
some guilt/shame/remorse related to the question posed.  If all they are doing
is propogating the cycle of abuse they received as children, then what they are 
doing is `normal', and those feelings may very well be absent.

Fare-Well All
	I am way behind on asar & it will probably take me 
	most of next week to catch up.
m&m



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1186@twwells.com (Lavender)
Subject: what gives ...????
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 00:05:27 GMT


Prisoner wrote : 
about his relationship with Relkie :

>  Yes, we had sex. However, her recollection differs somewhat from
> mine. Also, the way she told of the event left out an awful lot of
> important things, things that I think make a very big difference in
> how that event will be viewed. Until I am able to finish writing
> about it, it is my hope that people will suspend judgement.

I can hardly believe what I am reading !!!

And I am supposed to feel confident in using the anon posting service?

Hurry up and give your side Prisoner ...



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
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anon-asar@twwells.com  -- post anonymously to alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: Tools for dealing with asar/life
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 06:04:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 


No!  *Please* don't go back to lurking - asar needs more posts like
that one.  :-)

Holly (nimma)

-- 
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)     
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Z57N000 <Z57N@UNB.CA>
Subject: The Anonymous Service: This Waiter Has A Fake Accent
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:44:31 GMT

This may get me in trouble and start a flame war. I hope that doesn't
happen. If any of you would prefer to remain blissfully unaware of one
more perp's identity, that's your decision. Non-anon posters, regular or
irregular, have no real need to read this except to confirm suspicions
that have been floating about. If you are using the Anonymous Posting
Service however, I strongly urge you to keep reading.

I have received several letters asking if their suspicions concerning
the identity of my latest perp are correct. They are.

Let me make this perfectly clear.

I have never had willing sexual contact with anyone prior to June 15th,
1992. I use the term "willing" in legal terms only. I have not had any
homosexual contact whatsoever, inclinations aside. I am not the kind of
girl who sleeps around.

A gynaecological exam conducted while I was in the hospital found sperm
that were roughly two weeks old.

At least one person will vouch for my whereabouts on June 15th, 16th,
17th and 18th of 1992 -- the third floor of the Wandlyn Inn in Freder-
icton, New Brunswick. If you check the registration, however, my name
will not appear, but rather that of my so-called benefactor.

I could not possibly have been in sexual contact with any men.  Except
one.

The nightbag I had with me on the 15th and 16th contained contraceptive
materials purchased in the United States.

I am not going to say any names, for fear of causing more of a scene
than is necessary.

Process of elimination:

Not a relative.  Not a resident of Canada.  Not anyone I had known prior
to accessing ASAR.  Not anyone without net access.  Not anyone who was
powerless to affect this newsgroup.  Not anyone female.  Not anyone
single.  Not anyone who lacks a juvenile record.  Not anyone with
perfect eyesight.  Not anyone with an aversion to pedophilia.  Not
anyone who is currently posting to this group.

Now then, who was I in contact with on that night? Let's play what do we
know.

Anonymous posters: STOP! Think about it. Do you really, really want to
risk what you're risking?

YOU MAY BE CONFIDENTIAL, BUT THINK ABOUT WHO YOU'RE TRUSTING YOUR REAL
IDENTITY TO!!!!!!!!!!



Disclaimer: I take full responsibility for this post. Neither UNB nor
the person who normally uses this account is responsible for what I have
written.

If the perpetrator chooses to reveal himself, he can. I don't want
anything to do with him, personally.

RELKIE
From: sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: The Anonymous Service: This Waiter Has A Fake Accent
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:37:40 GMT
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

In article <1992Aug18.132510.1@fnalno.fnal.gov> holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.061620.7320@qiclab.scn.rain.com>, 
>sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley) writes:
>> you seem to be the only one having such a problem
>> sally
>
>If you believe that, then you are clearly ignoring your effect on Relkie.

and what about the effect that she is having on this group? i don't
want to engage in a flame war with you, dan; this kind of thing is
exactly what i wanted to avoid. if you have anything further to say to
me on the subject, please do so in email and spare the group.
sally

>Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
>HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
>HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
>                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
>Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
>   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
>TEAM STAR Charter Member             | Speak the Word.
>Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1039@twwells.com (cloister)
Subject: this message has no content.
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:45:50 GMT

ANON-Mail: yes
ANON-Announce: yes

this message is just to turn on my anon-mail so that regular anon-users can
send me mail.  there doesn't seem to be a way to change these options w/o
posting, so oh well...
ANON-Name: cloister



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: ftlao@acad3.alaska.edu (OSSANDER LINDA A)
Subject: Re: Abuse
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 03:46:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.235235.29413@colorado.edu>, bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes...
>In article <90.23358@incc.com> mikey@incc.com (Michelle) writes:
>>So my question is this, is
>>there anyone out there who has ever gone back to the person(s) who has
>>abused you and ask them why they have done what they did to you ? and
>>if so, did it help you ?
> 

Yes..I faced my abusers that I could find and my father anyway used the
attitude that he had been molested and it did not kill him and it certainly did
not kill me.  While that may be true I let him know that thanks to him I had
quite a messed up life.  Since getting divorced nearly 2 years ago I had not
spoken to my father.  I no longer had any reason to because I only was decent
to him because my ex-husband said it was the thing to do.  Well now  do not
have to do anything "I don't want to do".  Anyway my father called me last week
got my number from my youngest brother I think.  I was just bareley civel to
him and his new wife.  (He remarried after my mother died a few years ago)  I
think he got the idea so I should not have to be bothered by him again. Sorry
As usual I have gone of on my own ramblings..

Anyway I personally did not get any satisfaction out of confronting my
father..I got a lot more satisfaction writting him a 10 page letter when I was
in therapy pouring out my hurt and anger.  I sent it to him to but he told me
he did not get it. I know he did because someone told me he got it.

Anyway I wish you success on your journey through healing and if you think it
may help go for it! But please do not expect it to be a magic cure.

*HUGS* If you want them if not pass them on..

> > 
> 
>Bear Giles
>bear@fsl.noaa.gov

                            -Linda-
                    FTLAO.acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Relkie/Prisoner - both true?
From: Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:46:47 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.


In the two most recent post from both these people, I'm inclined to
believe both of them.  Their factual content is consistent, but the
emotional implications clash.

Even in simple situations, and this one is NOT, two people can see the
same object and make conflicting statements.  If two people sit at
right angles to a square table with an object in the centre.  One may
describe it as a vase, the other as a mug - simply because only the
second person could see the handle.  When people have different
emotional and intellectual perspectives, and the "object" is a series
of events, then there is considerably more scope for conflict.

I think Prisoner is making a real effort to be objectively truthful,
as far as he is able, and he has genuine concern for others.  He
admits he has problems, but in most key areas, I feel he can be
trusted, except in particular situations, that he has outlined.

I feel that Relkie was following her conscience, and her concern for
others, as best she could.  I feel her concerns are real, and from
memory, Prisoner seems to confirm them.

I think neither of them is deliberately being manipulative, I don't
see them as being manipulative, although I can see why others might
think so.

I think it very important that asar be supportive to BOTH of them,
though I'm not too sure of the best way.  However, I suggest people
try to refrain from attacking either of them.

Emotionally I'm more supportive of Relkie, but I find it easier to
find arguments to both attack and to defend Prisoner.  I'm sorry if
that last sentence is confusingly paradoxical.


Gavin
-- 
Tomorrow's Society                              | flower_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
    Depends on                                   ----------------------------
Today's Children  - help us raise them properly! 
*******  These comments have no known correlation with dept. policy!  *******
From: perez@mgr.hjf.org (Charles Perez)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: The Anonymous Service: This Waiter Has A Fake Accent
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:58:03 GMT
Organization: HJF AIDS Research Project, Washington DC

In article <14AUG92.14067915.0031@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> Z57N@UNB.CA (Z57N000) writes:
>I have to go grade papers in an instant, so this will be brief.
>
>I tried to come forward in a public forum, and it backfired.
>
>I tried to make a report to the police a long time ago, and I wasn't
>taken seriously (because i didn't run screaming out of the room
>afterwards, said the female officer).

I agree that this is bullshit. So why does criminology teach so few
police officers the actual dynamics of abuse?

>
>I tried not to use names, but I didn't want anyone to be victimized any
>longer.
>
>Anything I could say would be taken as manipulative.
>
>I'm sorry I caused all this fuss.
>
>I won't bother you any more.

You haven't bothered *me* so far.

Learn as much as you can about your situation. Learn, *learn*, LEARN.
Even if you don't think you can do anything, watch, and learn. This
way lies growth, and a growing capacity to heal. Can't heal enough
to suit you just yet? That's okay. You can learn more about what is
wounded within yourself today, and heal tomorrow, when you have the
strength. Or the next day. That is how you reclaim your life: one bit
at a time, one day at a time.

>
>Beverley White -- ie Relkie

If you don't want to bother anyone else, send me email. I have much to
say on the subject of healing, most most of it from personal experience.
(in re above: I wish there was a smiley for ecstacy!!!)



-- 
==========================================================================
That which is necessary is never evil. If an evil seems necessary, look
to your context; that's where its root lies.  - Charles Perez
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1186@twwells.com (Lavender)
Subject: still here
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 09:14:26 GMT


Some of you have been doing your best to assure me that this is a safe place to
discuss concerns and to gain support ... I am still not convinced and I am
not quitting either ...

I will be away for about a week, so please excuse me if I do not reply to
any comments or email that is addressed to me.

I am waiting, and I must confess not very patiently, for Prisoner to complete
his extended story of what occurred.  I will repeat, that since this whole
situation has been discussed here, that, IMHO, both parties MUST describe
their perception of what happened.

	a short aside to Jason ... thanks for your vote of confidence
	in the anon-asar posting service
	But when I tried to reply to you I got the following:

> 
> The anonymous message server is unable to deliver the appended
> message to the anonymous id anon-1039@twwells.com because forwarding
> for it is not turned on.

	and I do not understand ... would you or someone please
	explain?

Thanks and ttfn

Lavender



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
anon-help@twwells.com  -- for a help message
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anon-asar@twwells.com  -- post anonymously to alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: False Accusations
Date: 22 Aug 92 22:28:05 GMT
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs

_Rocky Mountain News_, 22 August 1992

Accusations of sex abuse 'ultimate weapon' in custody case

One-third of charges are false, 1988 court study found.

Robert Dvorchak, Associated Press

Woody Allen... was correct when he said allegations of sex abuse are
being made more often in custody battles.

And child psychology experts... say the number of alse allegations
also is increasing as a scheme to win custody.

The charge is known as "the ultimate weapon."

"The frequency of allegations is going up, frankly, because it works.
The accused is guilty until proven innocent," said Ralph Underwager
of the Institute for Psychological Therapies in Northfield, Minn.

"A charge of sex abuse is the most powerful thing you can do in a
custody fight to destroy the person you're angry at," he said.  "It's
been calld the neutron bomb of custody fights."

Dr. Richard Gardner, professor of child psychiatry at Columbia
University, said charges of sex abuse cannot be ignored because
the crime is so horrible.  But the number of false allegations has
grown in the past 10 years, he said.

"It's reached the point of hysteria.  It's a very convenient way
for a woman to destroy her husband," said Gardner, author of a
book titled _Sex Abuse Hysteria:  Salem Witch Trials Revisited_.

The charge is raised in an estimated 5% of child-custody cases.
A 1988 study by the Association of Family and Councilation Courts
showed the charges are probably false one-third of the time.

A number of custody fights are settled before they reach a judge,
and others are dropped before they are litigated.

"Clearly, in an adversarial situation of aa custody dispute, raising
a sex-abuse allegation can be a tool or strategy," said Judith
Weiner, a divorce mediator in White Plains, N.Y.

In 1990, in a report to the American Psychological Association,
Underwager said 75% of the accusers making charges of sex abuse in
child-custody cases have severe personality disorders.

"An angry partner can completely ruin someone's life," he said.
"The system is so biased in favor of the accuser, the accused should
simply take a bus to prison, walk to the gate and turn himself in."


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery