HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: surge@cqs.washington.edu (Jonathan Sari)
Subject: Re: Lag and the standard on bronco (SC bombers rule!)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:03:21 GMT

hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>Scout bombing is the toughest and most important job, in my opinion.  I  
>don't scout bomb in INL games because my talents lie elsewhere.  In pickup  
>games, I frequently scout bomb when the bombing isn't gettting done.  If  
>my team has a bomber, I take planets and ogg, if not then I bomb.  It is  
>the most effective way to kill armies.

But sometimes you can scout bomb like crazy and still lose in a big way
because you have armies sitting on your planets, or in the ships of og
bait.  In clueless games, you can win by simply putting every one of your
armies that pops on an enemy planet, even if the other team has incurable
scums.  The other team dinks around with its armies and you can og or
delay enough of them to win the war of attrition.

The important considerations are: What is my team capable of doing?  What
is the other team capable of doing?  If my team has no competent scums,
it's time to scum.  If my team has no competent oggers and they have an
effective scum, it's time to og.  If my team has no clue, and the other
team has clue and they don't have two spaces . . . it's definitely time
to scout bomb.  If both teams are clued, then I'm a twink anyhow.  If
they have a good scout bomber, maybe it's time to be a base.

I'll never quit a game just because the other team has an enormous clue
advantage.

-Ensign Pac-man
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jsin@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Jonghoon Sin)
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 08:19:25 GMT

In article <Bxw9rM.7wH.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu writes:
>Against the bears was it really unreasonable to play from UCLA?  

Well, under the circumstances, I think so.   It would not have been out of
the question, but it would have been unreasonable.

Like I said before, I thought about setting up a server days before, but 
didn't think it was necessary; I also thought it would be presumptous of
me to offer a server, since I wasn't even in the team.  Remember, at the 
time I was just there to watch LAR play. 

More importantly, most members of LAR didn't know that I was capable of 
providing a UCLA server, so they naturally didn't ask me.  (Heck, they 
didn't even know I existed until I started posting here after the game).  
So at the time, they had no other server but calvin. 

But as I said, there were no serious complains about calvin before, and
since no one got actually ghostbusted before the game, it seems 
reasonable to me that the LAR believed the situation didn't call for 
the hassle of trying to change the server or postpone and reschedule.  

Only after LAR scored a lop-sided upset victory was their motives 
questioned.  

>If this wasn't an option, then i'd say screw 'em.

It wasn't an option, as far as I knew.

>Firstly, I never heard anyone call you cheaters.  I commended you for your  
>efforts and sportsmanship.  I think any golden bear(i.e. mojo) that  
>expressed the above opinion was dead wrong.  

Thank you sir; you're a gentleman and a scholar.  I'm sure all LAR members
will thank you as well.

Here is how I see it: obviously GBs thought they could beat LAR through 
the lag; LAR thought they might have a chance to avoid being genocided 
with the lag.  LAR was little bit better than they thought, and GBs got
embarrassed.  They yelled "lag!" -- which is perfectly understandable.

So on the second game, LAR tried their best to accommodate the GBs and 
lost a very close game marred by lag on both sides (both CERFnet and 
BARnet had trouble), with many ghostbusts and pauses (I don't think
there were more than one or two ghostbusts or pauses during the first 
game).  LAR even gave back couple of planets taken during ghostbusts, 
for heaven's sake, in a game that went into overtime.

GBs won, and they didn't complain about the lag this time.  But they 
still complain about the *first* game.  Geez.

>Well, I speak for myself here, and not the rest of of the council, but I  
>feel that no lag clause is likely.  

Next season, there will be more than 1 team from calvin in the INL.  There 
will be enough people to field 2 or possibly 3 teams.  I wonder what server 
they will call "home".

Alas, it still doesn't look like there will be all-UCLA team (unless 
"TCB" is interested in forming his own team?  :)   I'd like to see a game
on his Synchronized-Swim netrek server.
-- 
John Sin       <jsin@janet.ucla.edu>  ...!uunet,ucbvax)!seas.ucla.edu!jsin
UCLA EE Dept.  53-109 Engineering IV, Los Angeles, CA 90024  (213)206-7983
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:38:15 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: RSA (Was: RSA gobbledygook)
	<1992Nov14.184207@cs.bham.ac.uk>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 14-Nov-92 RSA (Was: RSA
gobbledygook) James O. C. Hawtin@cs.bh (1376)

> We can compile an RSA equivelent here and then you can use that. With the same
> end; stopping those Borgs. WHY USE RSA WHICH LIMITS THE PEOPLE THAT
> PLAY? If you
> stop us play I expect you will get the largest and nastiest flame war in
> history

	If you beat out the cold fusion flame-war, *I*'ll be impressed. 
:)

ZZnew guy
From: wongrr@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Ryan R Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Info on this Group/Game?
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:27:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: master.1e6tetINNf6g
Reply-To: wongrr@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Ryan R Wong)
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
NNTP-Posting-Host: yellow.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

I stumbled across this news group just now and this game sounds really  
interesting. I would greatly appreciate information on the game  
background, game scenarios, teams, how to register as a player (can I  
simply telnet in or do I need game software on my machine and/or  
account?), etc.  

Please just send me email so that things aren't cluttered on my benefit.  

Ryan Wong
wongrr@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
From: jwh@mother.sodor (James Hawtin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: RSA question (Why only US and Canada)
Date: 19 Nov 92 04:48:21 GMT
Reply-To: jwh@mother.sodor
Organization: School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, UK

In article 9059@seas.smu.edu, barry@seas.smu.edu (Robert Barry) writes:

[ Deleted includes ]

> 
> This is not quite right, as I understand it.  In, Communications of the ACM,
> the reason is cited as US gov't restrictions on cryptography - cryptography
> being considered "munitions" and thus a threat to national security.
> 
> However, the NSA (National Securtiy Agency for those of you overseas) has 
> done a particularly bad job of enforcing this, and I am certain that if 
> you were not concerned with the legality of it - you COULD find RSA code
> out there on internet via anonymous ftp.
> 
> Robert
> 

Thats not the problem I KNOW we can find the RSA code here in Europe (called PGP) particularly as it is not copyright here, as a patent must be taken out before publication. As an upshot of this the US government decided to try to hold on to the code however failed as you would expect. This however goes give a nice little loop in that any code compiled in the UK or Europe for that matter could be freely imported to the USA or anywhere else in the world, so why done we or rather ME to be exact compile the c


lients if I can be sent the client source with the RSA routinues removed then we could just add the PGP equilient and all us euros can play :-) A similar think could be done with the servers for Europe later.......


				James.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Biggest Scum Ever
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:27:06 GMT
Reply-To: hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

FreeKill writes:
> Heh - if they start deleting characters who have used more than one 
> name, then there will be a LOT of admirals who lose their rank.  As far 
> as I know, Balton and I are about the only people with very high rank 
> who haven't name scummed.

Well, define name scum.  Balton plays ratio on occassion.  I thought you  
played super scout.  The idea was that this scum in paritular slot scummed  
for tmode.  Hardly the same thing as having more than one character name.   
Sun Tzu was "high rank".  Exxon Valdez was rear admiral...

> I usually see Rob in as only SpaceAce!, but I was assured a while back 
> that Balton was the only player who made Admiral on his original 
> character.
> Brian

I'm not sure if ZZnew Guy and Warlock were their original characters or  
not.  Sequent admirals I know nothing about.  I play Spaceace! alot, but  
the first SpaceAce! would've quaded to rear admiral.

Rob
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Swiss pairings (long-but read anyway)
Date: 24 Nov 92 05:14:33 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <cf4OJk200VpdE2P2gZ@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
)	Another possible way of schedualing the INL is by Swiss pairings.  This
)is the way in which chess tournements are run.  
)	There are several rounds of play, each one consisting of one game. 
)Teams are place into backets based on how many wins they have, and play
)a team in their own bracket.  Early on, there are sub-brackets based on
)what round one has lost in.  When a tournement is finished, one team has
)won the top bracket, and is the winner.  A tournament director tries to
)set it up so that teams never play eachother more than once.  There are
)programs written to do tournement direction atomaticly, so that the
)director can not be called for favoritism.

The concept of a Swiss has been discussed and largely discarded by
the INL Council already.  The main problems with Swiss pairings are:

1. It doesn't work with odd numbers of teams.  In chess tournaments,
the player with a bye is usually offered a game against a computer or
the TD, but I don't think there exists an equivalent for INL games.

2. (this is the one that counts) You don't know the pairings for
second-round games until after the first-round games are played.  
Considering the way results trickle in and out, it's likely that
it will be Tuesday or Wednesday before a team knows who they have to
play by Sunday; this is unacceptable.
 -Tom
From: george@fornax.ECE.CMU.EDU (George Cebulka)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: BRONCO: Is now RSA.
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:09:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: fs7.1992Nov16.210944.14388
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Originator: george@fornax.ECE.CMU.EDU


As of tonight bronco will be running the RSA code. for the next 2 weeks you will
be able to play using either an RSA client or a blessed bronco client. After
that it will go strictly RSA. Borg hours are still on Tuesdays, any client that
can connect will be able to play. 
For a list of installed keys, read the motd. You can get the client from
pittslug.sug.org in the /pub/netrek/rsa directory.
        George Cebulka, Bronco server slave.
From: sjsmith@cs.umd.edu (Stephen Joseph Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: ENPN: INL*-NIT** play-off situation
Date: 23 Nov 92 22:47:12 GMT
Organization: ENPN [Entertaining Netrek Posting Network]

INL* PLAYOFFS

FIRST ROUND

Side Salad [WBFF] at Illuminus Cartel [L]
Team With No Name [W,17-3] at Lagg U. [L]

SECOND ROUND

Side Salad at Team With No Name
Lagg U. at Illuminus Cartel


NIT** PLAYOFFS

FIFTH-EIGHTH BRACKET

FIRST ROUND

Golden Bears [W,11-8] at The LA Riot [L]
Off the Top Rope [L] at xgolems [W,45]

SECOND ROUND

Golden Bears [T,10-10] at xgolems [T,10-10]
Off The Top Rope at The LA Riot


NINTH-TWELFTH BRACKET

FIRST ROUND

12 Angry Men: Next Generation [L] at Hell's Bagels [W,11-8]
'Tis Only a Flesh Wound [L] at The Angry Men [WBFF]

SECOND ROUND

The Angry Men at Hell's Bagels
12 Angry Men: Next Generation at 'Tis Only a Flesh Wound


THIRTEENTH-SIXTEENTH BRACKET

FIRST ROUND

Deep Hurting [WBFF] at The Janitors of Anarchy [L]
The Armchair Admirals [L] at Farm League Extension East - F2 [W,30]

SECOND ROUND

Deep Hurting [L] at Farm League Extension East - F2 [W,15-4]
The Armchair Admirals at The Janitors of Anarchy


SEVENTEENTH-EIGHTEENTH BRACKET

FIRST ROUND

Farm League Extension West - F1 at Take Off, eh?



- Gamera, ENPN director

* The Entertaining Netrek Posting Network is neither endorsed nor
supported by the International Netrek League.  Void where prohibited.

** The Netrek Invitational Tournament is neither endorsed nor supported by
the International Netrek League.  Void where prohibited.


P. S. to ZORKIAN GRUE, or anyone else on 12 Angry Men: Next Generation:
the mailing address debry@cadehp0.eng.utah.edu is broken.  E-mail me with a
valid address and I'll e-mail you your bid to play 'Tis Only a Flesh Wound.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley)
Subject: Re: Base stats for NBR
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:12:15 GMT

In article <62202@mimsy.umd.edu> leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens) writes:
>It would be cool if the server kept track of a few base stats in the
>NBR server.  Here are some ideas for base stats.
>
>Offense:  kills/time
>Defense:  deaths/time
>Armies:   armies on board/time
>Bombing:  armies killed on board enemies/time 
>Position: ratio of distance from own home planet to enemy home planet/time
>Repair:   total shield+internal damage repaired/time

I like these.  The Position stat would tend to highlight the people
who have been sucked into the current trend towards 'ratio scum basing'.

Another set, harder to implement, might be:

Carrier Defense:	friendly carriers killed within some radius of
			base/time
Kills Given:		number of kills given by base to friendly players/
			time
Kill Freq Variance:	variance of the time between separate kills .. 
			indicates whether the base was ogged in
			waves or if it simply picked off strays.
WTemp Ratio:		time spent wtemped/time

Note that these stats are dependent upon the team which the base is 
playing on.  Also, some might involve extensive server mods.

Sandia
-- 
Steve Von Worley
von@cory.berkeley.edu
Computer Science Gradual Student
University of California at Berzerkly 
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: farrow@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (J. Scott Farrow)
Subject: Re: Where can I find crypt?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:27:52 GMT

books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu (Roger Books) writes:

>The subject line says it all.  It is not included in Ultrix or VMS.
>(Hate DEC, Hate DEC, Hate DEC.)

>Sherlock

>Roger
>books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu

I second that. I also couldn't find it on our RS6000's or our only Sun.
Archie was not helpful in finding source code, just binaries for other machines,
or something to do with Kerberos.

Where the hell is this program?

Scott

--
************* Repeal Amendment 2! - Shame On You, Colorado. ******************
J. Scott Farrow-Student SysAdmin/Programmer, University of Colorado at Boulder
Computing & Network Services, Boulder, Colorado, USA, phone: (303) 492-4428
Internet: farrow@spot.colorado.edu, farrow@cs.colorado.edu
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:35:12 -0500 
From: Michael Juster <MrYuk+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: IC forfiets
	<1992Nov16.215941.10017@ll.mit.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 16-Nov-92 Re: IC forfiets Taras
Zommers@ll.mit.edu (1009)

> It does seem strange that our team has a few CMU people on it and they never
> had any problems getting computers to play on at times other than "Thursday
> at midnight".


There is a HUGE differenece between individuals finding available
machines and a WHOLE TEAM finding them!

-Mike
Admiral chi
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: BRONCO: Is now RSA.
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 15:58:57 GMT

In article <BxxI0t.Ap5.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu writes:
>
>How many international(non-canadian) players actually play in the US?  I  
>know if one or two...that's about all that I know of.  I agree that its a  
>hose to non-US players...but a new scheme was needed.  No one really  
>complained initially, now its kind of late to tell people not to do it.   
>Perhaps more thought should be given to this subject...

I play in the US on a regular basis.  The reason that I didn't speak up before
was that I was mistaken about what was secure.  I thought that what could not
be exported was the RSA code that one would need to bless one's own
binaries/servers.  This would not be so annoying, as few in Europe have the
current blessing scheme anyway.  I was not aware that the _binaries_ would be
illegal to export.

I know of a number of other European based players who play(ed) on US servers.
The time zone problem haunts us here - we don't play during 'prime' hours, and
so are mostly unknown.

	Alec
	(Entropy)

PS - the RSA stuff does not affect Canadian players at all (to the best of my
knowledge).  Canada is the one place that it _is_ legal to export RSA to.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Subject: Re: Lag and the standard on bronco (SC bombers rule!)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:21:21 GMT

Bill Bathurst writes
Danny writes
> 
> >Anyhow what I wanted to say was that there is a massive shortage of 
> >people willing to SC bomb or base on bronco.  

People don't scout bomb because its too hard.  I usually end up having to  
do it, and I hate it.  

> It is because SC bombing is *harsh* on your ratings.  I had high ratings
> on my char on bronco until I would go SC when someone would yell, 
> "someone go scout bomb".  It is usually the arrogant planet scum who 
> yells for it but would never do it.

Well, this is often the case.  Most players don't like to scout bomb.  If  
a player has kills, it is sub-optimal for him to bomb if you have armies.   
I'm not justifying the actions of a planet scum, but it certainly makes  
some sense.

> >There are plenty of planet scums,
> >and quite a lot of oggers, but noone ever seems to bomb.  
> 
> On bronco it is the oggers and planet scum who get respect.  The good 
> thing about scouting is that people will think you are clued.

I'd disagree with you here.  There are few people that I respect more than  
a good scout bomber.  Look at psycho bomber, for instance.  Last year, he  
was one of the few first year CMU netrek players to be on INL teams (ray  
being the other one, and he was a scout bomber too) just because they were  
such good scout bombers.  Good scout bombers get respect.  

> >It is also hard to find people willing to base (you have no idea how 
> >frustrating I find this!!), and they often aren't too cluefull - some 
> > of them just die, some of them wander off towards the front line for 
> >no apparent reason and then die :)  (I've seen some really good bases 
> >on bronco, but they are the exception rather than the rule.)
> 
> I base whenever I can.  Takes a while to get good at basing.  SC bombing 
> is much easier.

Well, danny is used to australian trek, where people take bases out in 3  
on 3 wars (each side no less).  I think this is always a poor strategical  
move on 3 on 3 games, and often a poor move on 8 on 8 games.  Sometimes it  
isn't good to have a base...as a matter of fact most of the time it isn't  
useful at all in a pickup game.  Basing isn't that much fun either,  
because you have to sit back or you die...if you sit back then you don't  
see much action and you move up and die..cruel cycle :)

> > Just wait till the West-Pacific Rim fibre optic cable comes in!!
> This would be way cool! (:

Me neither...bring on Clown....:)

Rob
aka Spaceace!
From: bathurst@noaapmel.gov (Bill Bathurst)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:04:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: felix.BATHURST.92Nov18110437
	<2B09366B.29264@ics.uci.edu> <1ecgr1INNnm@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: NOAA/PMEL, Sand Point Way, Seattle, WA


I sympathize with Tom here.  Calvin has TERRIBLE lag!!!  From Seattle
I can reach about any California server with 42 ms ping times.  Bezier
was a great server to play on!  The mean ping times I get to Calvin 
at 78 ms.  That is still real good for me, about the same to bronco.
The problem is I get packet loss (3% as of last test) and frequent big burps 
(700-900 ms range).  

If several people are playing to Calvin from the same site this gets much 
worse.  The burps get more periodic and ghostbusts/server read errors start
popping up.  Often I have seen UW players get onto Calvin and then start
complaining about the exteme bad lag.  I often refer them to doorstop or fife 
as alternates since there is no lag going there.

I would really hope that team LAR will look for an alternate server on
their network.  It could be that the subnet that calvin is on is bad.  Can
you find an alternate server?  Reed U essentially gave up playing because 
there link was so slow to the outside world.  This was the game were the 
visiting team (Team Wizard) had to allocate updates.  

Sub Ensgin Azusa 
--
Bill Bathurst				Internet:	bathurst@noaapmel.gov 
NOAA/PMEL				Phone:		(206) 526-6205
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: surge@cqs.washington.edu (Jonathan Sari)
Subject: Re: BRONCO: Is now RSA.
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:21:12 GMT

jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk (James "Oolon Colluphid" Hawtin) writes:

>Well Spaceman I think the answer to your question is NEVER, as all you
>Yanks will be running RSA servers which means that you will have it all
>to yourselves! This is apart from discovery server god who seems about
>the only clue person around, because he realise that RSA will lock a lot
>of people out and so they are apparently not converting. Also We may see
>them in the UK first because everyone will always be able to play here
>=:*)

Well, granted that you guys are hosed.  There is yet a solution.  If some
generous soul will post the RSA reserved.c (or provide the way to get it)
minus the mean, nasty, hush-hush bits, then you can rewrite it with good,
clean public domain encryption available for everyone!  Either that, or
find some honest, hard-working person to do it for you.
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Date: 18 Nov 1992 07:24:48 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <Bxw9yv.84z.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu writes:
)
)> If what I heard was correct, GB would not show up for the game if LAR 
)> played on calvin for the re-match.  So LAR took the time and effort to 
)> setup a UCLA server and drove here to accommodate the GBs!  LAR could 
)> have taken the forfeit from GBs but elected to give you a fair(er) shot.
)
)Wow...I see some serious holubism here.  I'd have told him to rot in hell  
)if he put it that way..

And I will tell all the FUCKHEADS who keep putting shit like this in my
mouth to go to hell.  I never said anything like it, no one on my team
said anything like it, it's TOTAL BULLSHIT.

A game on calvin would have been stupid, but we would have been there.
 -Tom