HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Ogging/bombing/dogfighting
Date: 13 Oct 92 03:06:47 GMT
	<btd.718909997@pv7440.vincent.iastate.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 12-Oct-92 Re:
Ogging/bombing/dogfighting Benjamin T Dehner@iastat (1883)

> >	Well, you win netrek by killing all of your opponent's armies.  When

> 	Here I disagree.  You win netrek by taking an opponents planets.
> Killing armies stops the opponent from taking, but does not gain you planets.
> The game ends when a race has zero planets, NOT zero armies; they are not
> the same, since someone may still be carrying when the game ends.

	As long as your opponent has planets, he has armies.  Taking away his
planets is one of the importnat ways of taking away his armies (As I
mentioned later in the quoted article.).

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu (have clue, will travel)
Subject: Re: OTR vs xg
Reply-To: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: The Ghost Of Christmas Past Society
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 08:30:22 GMT


MrYuk+@CMU.EDU (Michael Juster) writes:

>WE SUCK BIG LONG THICK HARD JUICY DONKEY DICK

>-Mike
>Admiral chi
>Slick - Co-Captain of Off The Top Rope

..and this is WHY I want a "game recorder."

Can I have a copy of the negatives?

			--Commodore Video Sex Pope, NCSU
			--Designated Exploder, the ever-hapless
			--Janitors of Anarchy[tm].
			--"negatives of the game OR the donkey, either can 
  			--       of film will do..."  

--
                         jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu 
          ---------     have clue, will travel.    ---------
  "I am a penis. Worship me."--lead singer of rock band Bicycle Face,
vainly attempting to gain attention of the crowd at the Cat's Cradle
in Chapel Hill, while opening for Mojo Nixon & The Toad Liquors
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (FreeKill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Hell Peacock
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:45:26 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


>In article <Bw0uKI.J2q.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:

>>I think you will find few who agree with you.  Dogfighting isn't as  
>>important as ogging.  Dogfighting is fun, and is useful, but it is NOT as  
>>useful as ogging.

I would disagree.  Being a good dogfighter is about as, if not more, important
that being a good ogger.  Most people runner scum the hell out of oggers.  To
actually kill them, you have to slowly chase them and then win in something
that closely resembles a dogfight.

NOTE: most people use the word dogfighting to mean just fighting any enemy.
This is clearly useless.  However, just ogging any enemy is almost as useless.
The only time that blind ogging is useful is in an LPS, but by that point,
you're kinda screwed anyways.

I must say that the times I felt in top form were when I was a top-notch
dogfighter.

As a last comment, I must reiterate that there are skills to be gained from
both.  The most effective players are those that are great oggers AND great
dogfighters.  A scout player who can bomb, ogg, take planets, and dogfight
is truly an asset to any team.

Brian
From: krk@griffith.janet.ucla.edu (Kenneth Kindsfater)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL strategy: take a weak planet, or the front line?
Date: 12 Oct 92 00:23:44 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <BvtIHs.FKr.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>
>Some people have commented on this, and I have found it to be quite  
>interesting.
>
>Mojo thinks you should leave a back line planet to take the front line.  I  
>strongly disagree.  Take as many cheap planets as you can.  If the front  
>is free, take the front.  If you don't own a back line planet, take the  
>back line planet.
>
>Armies wins the game.  Being in enemy space is important, but not as  
>important as army production.
>
>Rob

I think back planet agri's are very good since they are likely to pop to 4
quick enuf not to be an easy take for the other team. Other planets you
shouldn't bother with (unless fuel planet for their front which has none,
etc...) because of the high probablity of dying in their territory
(unless you are scout with 1 kill and the planet can be taken with 2...) and
becuase you are likely to have used 5 armies to take a planet that they can
take back with 2 and given that is back field you aren't likely to get
back their before its back up to 4. but if its a cheap take like 2 and you're
a scout take it!!!
I assume this discussion is near the start of the game or very nearly tied
with low army counts on both sides....

Anyways I agree more with you Rob, army production is most important

Ken Kindsfater              # painting chip layout and watching anime
krk@janet.ucla.edu          # Otaku no netrek: Admiral HoldMyOwn
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Some proposal
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:20:23 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

> Also, the server GOD should be able to PAUSE the game whenever anyone
> gets GB'd.  Or, at least, the team should be able to UNCAPTAIN one 
> player by majority vote like on flint :-)
> 
> 5150

Yes, yes, yes.  I brought up this problem a while back.  If the captain  
gets ghostbusted during a pause...that's it...see ya...game over man.

I hope the new server hack fixes this as soon as possible.

Rob
aka Spaceace!
From: echeverr@scf.usc.edu (Evil Geniuses For a Better Tomorrow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Some proposal
Date: 11 Oct 1992 23:10:41 -0700
Organization: Illuminus fnord Cartel
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu
Summary: fnord
Keywords: fnord

In article <ldfh7hINNj6s@grit.cs.utexas.edu> regius@cs.utexas.edu (Regius S. Gunawan) writes:
>Still posting for sunscreamer:
>2)  This is also an official Call for Discussion concerning ghostbusts
>and pauses.  Since I think it's pretty much understood that there should
>be a pause whenever a team gets majorly ghostbusted, and since major
>ghostbusts can involve a Captain, I suggest that a team that has more
>than 2 ghostbusts in any 15 second period automatically be considered
>as requesting a pause.  I also think a message should be sent to the
>ALL board whenever the server suspects that someone has been ghosted.

Also, the server GOD should be able to PAUSE the game whenever anyone
gets GB'd.  Or, at least, the team should be able to UNCAPTAIN one player
by majority vote like on flint :-)

5150
i can see mutiny during an INL game... heh heh heh
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: New Feature Proposal
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:55:00 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

jmh@athena.mit.edu (J Michael Hammond) writes
> I propose the following:
> 
> When a player loses his first ship, he is forced to wait ten seconds
> before getting the next one.  This wait time increases by, one
> second for each subsequent ship lost by that player in that game.
> These time constants might, of course, require some tinkering
> if implemented, but they seem like realistic values to start with.
> 
> This constraint will reduce the usefulness of mass suicide tactics.
> Features that have evolved to balance mass suicide tactics (strong
> starbases, wicked fast agricultural planets, etc.) should then be
> scaled down a little bit in order to remain in balance.
> 
> Discussion?  Flamage?  Ad hominem insults?  ;-)

Lots of possible effects:

Runnerscumming becomes the dominant tactic.

Ogging, taking planets under fire, det-escorting, etc all become lost
skills.  Game changes to favor massive co-ordinated fleet attacks;
anything else is too risky for the individual.

Game pace slows right down.  Everyone looks for the 100%-survivable
opening, rather than the 20%-chance-of-success-100%-chance-of-death
opening. 

Turnover of players happens a lot faster (who wants to wait 20 seconds
after losing your 10th ship?). 

People start playing multiple games at once (just lost your 20th ship?
Bring up your other window and play that for the next 30 seconds).  Or
even multiple ships in the same game, on servers that allow it.  tvtwm
addicts finally find a valid reason to increase their virtual desktop
size. 

Newbies stop playing the game.  After an Admiral has waxed their butt
10 times in a row, they're not going to bother playing netrek if they
have to stare at the same screen for 20 seconds, then 21, then 22...

Re-entrance scumming in non-tmode games.  It is faster to quit out and
re-enter than wait to be allowed back in.

0-death dogfighters get really pissed when an ogger die-hard comes in,
oggs them 10 times, and then quits out.  A new term "ogger-quitter
scum" is defined.  The dogfighters start thinking up new rules to make
it harder on ogger-quitter scum.  The cycle repeats itself.  The
cosmic balance is maintained.

Oh, one good thing : people start reading the MOTD.

Anyway, sitting around talking about it is fine, but we're not going to
know for sure until you try implementing it on a server.  Go for it.

Jonathan H., jch@cs.cmu.edu                        Spaceman Spiff, Flying Pig
I run a Netrek information archive.   Access: [1] WAIS (gourd.srv.cs.cmu.edu, 
port 6000, name netrek-ftp)  [2] AFS (try cd /afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/jch/netrek)  
[3] Anon FTP from gs69.sp.cs.cmu.edu   [4] e-mail from ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com
From: bharat@shadow.Eng.Sun.COM (Bharat Mediratta)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Something seriously amiss
Date: 17 Oct 1992 03:12:21 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bharat@shadow.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: shadow

In article ldue6pINNso@levelland.cs.utexas.edu, davidt@cs.utexas.edu (David Eng-Yeow Teo) writes:
 
> True, but you have to be real good at phaserlocking the cloaker manually in
> order for your phaser line to follow him around.  As for the tractors, once you
> managed to tractor him before he cloaks, your tractor lines will always show on your local map unless he is fast enough to get out of your tractor range or you turn off your tractor/pressor on him.
> 
> > Besides, the tractor/pressor lines will be jumping around.  Not
> > precisely helpful.
> > 
> 
> So will the cloakers be jumping around on a borg.  The borg is also a client, in
> the server's point of view.  The server will not "tell" the borg the precise
> locations of any cloakers as much as it will tell Tedd's client the precise
> locations of any cloakers.  In this sense, the client is acting like a borg
> with "See Cloakers" on.  (i.e.  Displaying cloakers on the local map.  It's
> just a mapping of the ?? from the galactic onto the local map and so they
> jump alot too). 

Are you trying to say that the server will tell more to a blessed client
than to a non-blessed client?  After reviewing the final bronco server
release, I'd have to say you're dead wrong.  This is the server code
for all updates of cloaked players sent to ALL clients, blessed and
non-blessed:

            if ((pl->p_flags & PFCLOAK) && 
                  (pl->p_cloakphase == (CLOAK_PHASES - 1)) && 
                  (me != pl) && !mustUpdate[i]) {
                if (repCount % efticks(9) != 0) continue;
                cpl->type=SP_PLAYER;
                cpl->pnum=i;
                cpl->x=htonl(x+(random() % 2000)-1000);
                cpl->y=htonl(y+(random() % 2000)-1000);
                sendClientPacket(cpl);
                continue;
            }

As you can see, the x and y locations are off by some random
amount no greater than 1000 clicks.

You get MORE information about a cloaker from a PHASER LOCK than
you get from this minor glitch.  This does NOT make it a borg, or
even remotely borgish.  Not that it matters <grin>

-Bharat


> David Teo
> (ok thanks for your advice about the auto-fill-mode, I forgot to set it.
>   I'll set it after this news, sorry about that.)
> 



---
    /\        Bharat Mediratta
   \\ \       Graphics Continuation Group
  \ \\ /      
 / \/ / /     
/ /   \//\    SUN Microsystems, Inc.	
\//\   / /    Mailstop: MTV18-218
 / / /\ /     2550 Garcia Avenue, Building 18
  / \\ \      Mountain View, CA 94043
   \ \\       Phone:  (415)336-4347, FAX:(415)336-5471
    \/        Email:  bharat.mediratta@eng.sun.com



Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: XG vs OTR stats
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 11:23:02 GMT

In article <ser4Xdy00WAyMLvG5n@andrew.cmu.edu> Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Yeah.  To quote Mike "We sucked donkey dick."  I guess I was due for a
>beating in the base though; last INL game I got a 150 kill SB
>(admittedly against non-locals), this time I averaged about 10.  Ugh.

BTW, congrats on your SBing vs. FLEE.  However, at some point we decided that
ogging you out of thebase was pointless, and started to use you as a place to
give kills to (rather than make carriers).  Of course, even without that, you
woulda still had a lot of kills.

Alec
(Entropy)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: esj@cs.brown.edu (Eugene Santos Jr.)
Subject: Hey!!!!!! Clue game on flint? [was Re: LA Riot -vs- GB, game stats]
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 05:20:48 GMT

In article <8epvAdi00VoxE3l1xJ@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>In article <Bvx83H.66H.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert
>Hill) writes:
>>
>>I've said it before, and i'll say it again...calvin sucks.  It is has the  
>>WORST lag in the entire country.  I wish some other west coast server  
>
>	The competition is Fierce.  Flint is certainly a strong contender for
>the title.  Sometimes I think that Brown will form a team and I'll have
>to play them away.  I wake up in a cold sweat.
>	I suppose that this is only about the sixth game that could be
>seriously contested due to lag in the history of the INL.  That's not
>too bad a record.
>
>GB at Darkhorse
>:) at 300+
	Very frustrating game I remember, but still, kudos to 300+ for being
	quite civil about it.
>12AM at CrackPot
>GG at GB
>HB at LU
>
>	Any others?  Note:  This is a volitile subject, so *please*, don't say
>anything too harsh.
>
>ZZnew guy

Hey! Flint is fine. Sort of. I still haven't figured out why the lag is
so awful. It could be that I really mucked up the server code for
flint. 

I've been mentioning lots and lots of times to try and do benchmarking
runs on flint. Well, I think now is the time.

I plan to bring down flint for one day and replace it with Ray's INL 3.0
server. I would like to set up a series of clue games for this coming
Saturday or Sunday (10/17 & 10/18) just to see how bad flint lag
really is. Please send me mail and I'll schedule some 1 hour
games with teams I'll put together from the mail list. If there are
any teams out there who would like to try and brave a flint scrimmage
send me e-mail! I am also planning to run the INL server on another
server on a different subnet from flint. So, the possiblity for
simultaneous games is available.

For those cluers out there interested, send me e-mail and a preferred time.
This is by no means just limited to that small clique of people
considered netrek veterans. If you would like to play, please send
me e-mail and your ranks on the the popular servers such as bronco,
rwd4, scws9 (old of course) and bezier (dead too).

I'll arrange the games such that the cluers won't be annoyed by newbies
if they don't want to be. CLUERS! Please indicate whether you would mind
playing with newbies/medium clue people. Saying yes will not necessarily
preclude you from high clue games.

You know? I think I just let myself in for a whole lot of administrative
headache. :)

Server God, Flint
Lt. Commander Plasma, Lack of (bronco)

uucp:	...!{ihnp4,decvax}!brunix!esj		Eugene Santos Jr.
bitnet:	esj@browncs.bitnet			PO Box 1910, Computer Science
arpa:	esj%cs.brown.edu@relay.cs.net		Brown University
csnet:	esj@cs.brown.edu			Providence, RI 02912
From: davidt@cs.utexas.edu (David Eng-Yeow Teo)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Something seriously amiss
Date: 16 Oct 1992 16:49:13 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: levelland.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: fnord

In article <1blq38INNq2q@girtab.usc.edu>, echeverr@scf.usc.edu (Evil Geniuses For a Better Tomorrow) writes:
> In article <ldog0gINNf2m@grit.cs.utexas.edu> davidt@cs.utexas.edu (David Eng-Yeow Teo) writes:
> >I still think that the client is stretching it alittle.  Reasons :-
> >1)  Visible Tractors :-
> >Approved but maybe you ought to look at it again.  If you tractor or
> >pressor someone before he cloaks, the tractor lines will still be there.
> >In such situation, the client is acting like a borg with "See Cloakers"
> >option on.    
> 
> (David, use auto-fill-mode, or hit return after each line...)
> 
> Counter-argument:  If you phaser someone before he cloaks, your phaser
> will still be there.
> 

True, but you have to be real good at phaserlocking the cloaker manually in
order for your phaser line to follow him around.  As for the tractors, once you
managed to tractor him before he cloaks, your tractor lines will always show on your local map unless he is fast enough to get out of your tractor range or you turn off your tractor/pressor on him.

> Besides, the tractor/pressor lines will be jumping around.  Not
> precisely helpful.
> 

So will the cloakers be jumping around on a borg.  The borg is also a client, in the server's point of view.  The server will not "tell" the borg the precise locations of any cloakers as much as it will tell Tedd's client the precise locations of any cloakers.  In this sense, the client is acting like a borg with "See Cloakers" on.  (i.e.  Displaying cloakers on the local map.  It's just a mapping of the ?? from the galactic onto the local map and so they jump alot too). 

However, as someone else did mention, Tedd's client can only see the cloakers if
the cloaker himself was tractored/pressored by the user before he cloaks, while the borg can see (although they jump alot) cloakers on the local map all the time.

Therefore, in this aspect, Tedd's client is not as borgish.

> 5150

David Teo
(ok thanks for your advice about the auto-fill-mode, I forgot to set it.
  I'll set it after this news, sorry about that.)
From: davidt@cs.utexas.edu (David Eng-Yeow Teo)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: NEW STURGEON BASED SERVER is opening
Date: 15 Oct 1992 23:58:01 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: grit.cs.utexas.edu
Summary: This is great!

In article <1992Oct16.005551.22862@icaen.uiowa.edu>, milutz@icaen.uiowa.edu (Mike Lutz) writes:
> Well, ok, its not quite a new server, but it is running new server
> software, and based on the number of people that have logged in to
> it, it should be new to most :)
> 
> Server: -h netrek.ICAEN.uiowa.edu -p 2592
>         -h 128.255.21.58 -p 2592
> 
> Features:
>           -Sturgeon upgrade server code.
>           -Up to 10 updates per sec are ok.
>           -Borgs are allowed.
>           -Open 24 hours.
> 
>     Some of Sturgeon's features:
>                        -Orbit your home planit and refit into the
>                         type of ship you are to enter the upgrade
>                         menu.
>                        -There are 6 different types of plasmas
>                        -Plasmas are bought instead of automatically
>                         being gained at 2 kills
>                        -New weapons: mines, nukes and fighters.
>                        -Star bases are hard on the out side, but
>                         have a soft and chewy center.
>                        -Phasers do double damage to sheilds while
>                         torps do double damage to hulls
> 
>                                   And much much more!
> 
> Hope to seeya online!
> 
> -Mike (MikeL)
> 
> (p.s. this friday 10/16 if the people playing are interested there
>       will be a upgrade chaos night, were all upgrades will be at
>       1/10th cost :)
> 
> (p.p.s. So you don't forget the server is "netrek.icaen.uiowa.edu"
>         port 2592)


This is great!  
I greatly encourage all borg users/authors and robot authors to try it!
The sturgeon mod is great!
  Now that sturgeon and many other servers do not allow borgs,
 I'm glad to see that at least someone dares to make a bold step out of the
 crowd.

I like to use a borg and I'm proud of it.  Too bad if I dont agree with
 most of you about horgs but if it makes you feel better,
 I dont agree with almost everything in r.g.n. that you guys agree on either.
  :)


Call me a weenie, call me anything you want, BUT....

>>> I AM BORG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <<<







David Teo
From: el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Lauer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Bronco or Sequent -- which is "correct"
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:39:40 GMT
	<92515@netnews.upenn.edu>
	<geqFoJa00VpaA36loQ@andrew.cmu.edu>
Organization: Doctoral student, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

"Timothy C. Worsley {NOT!} "  <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 11-Oct-92 Re: Bronco or Sequent
>-- wh.. Justin Botelle@eniac.sea (724)
>
>> )	-Michael (When you enter the game, do you hit "+" first, or
>> )		look around for enemies???)
>
>
>	Fist button I hit is shields down, then maxwarp.  Sometimes I have to
>hit shields up again right away.
>
>ZZnew guy

If you just did it in the opposite order, you would get moving .1
seconds earlier (without wasting any fuel).  Think of how much time that
would add up to by now!  :-)


Erik
---=
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (FreeKill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Ok you scum
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:26:55 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1bgfi6INNq33@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:

>Not only is it really cheap, it keeps new players from learning the 
>real meat of the game (coordinating on taking the core worlds, and
>phaserlocking cloakers).  And what pisses people off is that not only
>do good players *do* it, they recommend it as a valid strategy on
>rec.games.netrek.

I will agree that it's cheap, but it is valid...

Anyways, I'm working on a new bot that will be much better than the current
guardian.  Taking 3rd party space should be much, much trickier.  Hopefully,
the first implementation should be on flint soon.

Brian



		


Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ramid@nyx.cs.du.edu (Rudy Amid)
Subject: Re: Illuminus Cartel-Take Off Eh? cancelled
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 05:44:16 GMT

echeverr@scf.usc.edu (Evil Geniuses For a Better Tomorrow) writes:

[HB stuff]

>Today the attempted game between IC and TOE was cancelled due to CMU ghost-
>bustage and subsequently the utoronto gw died too.  A rescheduling is in
>process.

   We're going for the record on how many foiled games we can produce
during INL. :-)

   Damn network doesn't like us Torontonians. :>

>5150
>Evil Genius

--
!Rudy Amid              ///
a434amid@cdf.toronto.edu//
amid@r-node.gts.org   ///
Netrek/IRC: Radix  \\X//