HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: twbrown@PE-Nelson.COM (Tom W. Brown)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.windows reorganization
Date: 8 Oct 92 22:17:19 GMT
Organization: PE-Nelson

Despite Peter's poke at MSDOS (or more appropriately, MS Windows users), I
agree with the general suggestion to reorganize the comp.windows.*
hierarchy (really, Peter, the problem has nothing to do with MSDOS users,
it's simply that, quite unintentionally, comp.windows turns out to be a
misleading name).

Yes, MS Windows now has its own hierarchy.  But you can't deny that MS
Windows is a graphical user interface, it is a windowing system, and as
such should not be cast out completely of something like comp.gui.misc.
There will be questions about MS Windows that have a place in a general
GUI discussion.  Unfortunately it is true that most of the comp.windows.misc
posts are highly MS Windows specific and not miscellaneous at all.

Anyway, I think a reorganization would help avoid the problem (since I think
it is just a confusion about the group name).  I like the "comp.gui" better
than the "comp.windowing" suggestion and would opt for the following:

   comp.gui.x.announce
   comp.gui.x.apps
   comp.gui.x.intrinsics
   comp.gui.x.pex
   comp.gui.x.misc

   comp.gui.motif
   comp.gui.open-look
   comp.gui.garnet
   comp.gui.interviews
   comp.gui.news
   comp.gui.misc

I like this better than "comp.windowing" because it's shorter and because it
is noticeably different from "comp.windows".

Question: Should the "comp.os.ms-windows" hierarchy be moved to a
          "comp.gui.ms-windows" hierarchy? (1/2 :-)


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Brown               |  "Strange women, lying in ponds, distributing
PE Nelson Systems       |   swords is no basis for a system of government."
twbrown@pe-nelson.com   |                    Monty Python and the Holy Grail
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups,chile.grupos
From: ppoblete@dcc.uchile.cl (Patricio Poblete)
Subject: Re: Cual es la razon?
Originator: ppoblete@pincoya
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:33:50 GMT
Organization: Universidad de Chile, Depto. de Ciencias de la Computacion


In article <2AD9AFB3.41B9@tct.com>, chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>According to ppoblete@tortel.dcc.uchile.cl (Patricio Poblete):
>>I am not sure it is appropriate to discuss in news.groups about the
>>creation of groups under the "chile.*" hierarchy.
>
>Where else but news.* can we discuss the creation of a new hierarchy,
>anyway?

I think there is some truth in both positions.

The creation of groups under the chile.* hierarchy is a matter to be
discussed by the people involved in those newsgroups (the newsgroup
chile.grupos is the appropriate forum). Of course, everyone is welcome
to join the discussion there. I don't think that news.groups is the right place,
in the same way it is not the right place to discuss group creation, say,
for the "eunet.*" hierarchy.

On the other hand, Chip is right in pointing out that some of the motivation
for the creation under chile.* of groups that look like clones of mainstream
groups is language. Under chile.*, the default language is Spanish. In
the cases when that is the only motivation, I agree that esp.* would be a
better place.
                        __			ppoblete@dcc.uchile.CL
  _   _   _   /   / _   / _			Patricio Poblete
 /_) /_) (_) /_) / (-' / (-'			Dept. of Computer Science
/   / 						University of Chile
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: fuzzy@netcom.com (Fuzzy Fox)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.archives.msdos.announce moderated and comp.archives.msdos.d
Organization: Foxes 'R' Us - Seven locations to serve you
Distribution: world 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:06:49 GMT

jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell) writes:

>There will be chatter in a .d group, superfluous noise, but there will
>be that nugget of productive (in the loosest sense of the word :-)
>conversation.  

Searching for diamonds in the rough may be fun for some, but it quickly
becomes tedious when there are few diamonds and a lot of rough.

-- 
#ifdef TRUE         | Fuzzy Fox                  fuzzy@netcom.com
#define  TRUE   0   | a.k.a. David DeSimone      an207@cleveland.freenet.edu
#define  FALSE  1   |   "Verily, thou art indeed a fool."   -- Chuckles the
#endif              |         Jester, moments before his untimely death.
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.config
From: mbur@nyx.cs.du.edu (MAC)
Subject: Re: coercion and Usenet
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 02:20:12 GMT

In article <1b5rurINNr2c@nigel.msen.com> emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti) writes:
>Chip Salzenberg (chip@tct.com) wrote:
>: According to eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya):
>: >[deleted]
>:[deleted] 
>
>[bit bucket]
>  Edward Vielmetti, vice president for research, Msen Inc. emv@Msen.com
>        Msen Inc., 628 Brooks, Ann Arbor MI  48103 +1 313 998 4562
>
>
> 

That's just swell Edward.  Let there be no mistake how you became vice
president for research.  Amazing.  Truly amazing.


TTFN
M
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon)
Subject: rec.marching - it wasnt me
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 14:40:37 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University

> >gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon) writes:
> >
> >Really, that's a bit carried away, but you get the ideas, surely?  At the
> >risk of pissing on your (collective) parade, the drum corps community has
> >long had a fallacious idea that they were doing something significantly
> >different from the band crowd.  That's just plain wrong.  Why should we
> >continue to foster this misconception?  Drum and bugle corps are, in the
> >simplest of analyses, just one of many kinds of marching band, which are
> >in turn a flavor of military musical performing group.  To what degree
> >they are military is another matter, best left for later discussion...
>
>dawson@willard.UUCP (Willard Dawson)

Please, I didn't write this.

                                                  Scott
From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: CFD for *.apathy newsgroups
Date: 7 Oct 92 05:49:55 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

Who cares? Why should we bother even trying this? It won't matter anyway.

:)   :)   :)
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Chester            |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Politically Incorrect      |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us
Future Lunar Colonist      |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: coercion and Usenet
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 12:50:40 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti):
>You may happily insist that you're just being thorough and dogged in
>your pursuit of the Truth about the way the net is...

Yes.

>...and deny in the same breath that there's anything at all that can
>be considered negative about that.

Straw man, Ed.  I never said that my activity lacked negative aspects.
I've simply asserted that it is not "coercion".

>Indeed, riding on every poor newbie that comes through is considered
>good form or good sport on this part of the net.

Non sequitor.  I don't ride newbies, I contest ideas.

>If he thinks he's being so helpful, why is it so annoying?

You didn't finish the sentence: "... annoying to me?"  I can't answer
that question, Ed.  Maybe you can.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
   "I am truly as big a genius as all other Rush fans." -- Bruce Bufalini
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.archives.msdos.announce moderated and comp.archives.msdos.d
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:38:24 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <BvpwHB.Gx5@uunet.uu.net>, kko@sfu.ca (Samuel Ko) writes:
| This is an official Request For Discussion concerning the 
| creation of the newsgroups comp.archives.msdos.announce and
| comp.archives.msdos.d.
| 
| Proposed newsgroup:  comp.archives.msdos.announce
| 
| Type: moderated
| 
| Charter: 
|    This moderated newsgroup is for the upload announcements and
| related information from MSDOS FTP sites with PD and shareware material.

I would suggest that mail and anonymous uucp arcoives be included in the
charter of this group, users are smart enough to figure out which type
of archive is most useful to them. For instance, if you are getting
feeds via modem, uucp is a lot faster then mail from an ftp mail
archive. 
-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    Keyboard controller has been disabled, press F1 to continue.
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.os.386bsd
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:30:17 GMT
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC

In article <1992Oct14.084602.1185@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> earle@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Greg Earle - Gainfully Unemployed) writes:
> Think of it this way - if/when 4.4BSD makes it out, if we're so lucky that
> a lot of people decide to use Chris Torek's SPARC(station) port that a
> non-trivial amount of traffic about it is generated, does it make sense to
> call for a "comp.os.sparcbsd" instead of "comp.unix.bsd.sparc"?!?

Of course not. It should be comp.os.bsd.sparc. 

> I vote "No" on any attempt to create "comp.os.386bsd".

Right. It should be comp.os.bsd.intel386 or comp.os.bsd.jolix.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                         `-_-'
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.                              'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012           "Heeft u vandaag al uw wolf geknuffeld?"
+1 713 274 5180                       "Tjener, denne ret er stadig levende."
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.archives.msdos.announce moderated and comp.archives.msdos.d
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:58:39 GMT

In article <BvpwHB.Gx5@uunet.uu.net> kko@sfu.ca (Samuel Ko) writes:
>This is an official Request For Discussion concerning the 
>creation of the newsgroups comp.archives.msdos.announce and
>comp.archives.msdos.d.

This RFD is stored for later reference in
 20607 Sep 30 23:18 garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/post11.zip

It also contains some background on why the unmoderated
comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives newsgroup's functions cannot continue
as they were.  The new newsgroups would cover the same functions
based on moderation in the new comp.archives.msdos.announce. 

Summary: The upload announcements from the major MsDos FTP sites
would continue in a moderated newsgroup (CAMA), but they would not
continue in an unmoderated one (CBIPA) because the severe problems
keeping the said unmoderated newsgroup on topic.

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: deitrich@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dave Deitrich)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.mecha
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:40:14 GMT

aj834@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Scott A. Maehner) writes:
>I heartily approve of this new group, but I have a
>question/suggestion/nitpick...what about other anime/anime-realted games? 

I've noticed this minor problem too.  Whenever anyone tries to bring up an
anime-related gaming topic the rec.arts.anime people want it moved to rec.
games.frp.misc, and the rec.games.frp.misc people want it to move back to
rec.arts.anime.  However, the actual volume of anime-related games is so
small (you can count them on one hand) that I don't think it's really 
necessary yet for a rec.games.frp.anime.  Maybe in a few years if anime
and anime-related games become more popular...

Anyway, I fully support REC.GAMES.MECHA.  Both my favorite subjects will 
now finally be in one newsgroup!  Yaaay! ;)

--
Dave Deitrich                             Manager, CCSO Oregon Computing Site
deitrich@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu                and One o' the Guys in charge of JACK
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  CCSO and I have this deal; I don't represent them and they don't fire me.
Xref: sparky news.groups:19019 chile.grupos:14
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Newsgroups: news.groups,chile.grupos
Subject: Re: Cual es la razon?
Date: 11 Oct 92 03:03:15 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <2AD57E64.555A@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>According to sergio@Ingres.COM (Sergio L Aponte):
>> 3) Idioma? Nadie dice que no puedes postear en el idioma que te de la
>> gana en el grupo que te de la gana...
>
>Verdad; pero, porque la mayor parte de Usenet se comunica en ingles,
>hace sentido tener grupos distintos para otros idiomas.  Quiza's seria
>u'til tener grupos "esp.*" en vez de "paiz.*".

Por comenzar, porque no soc.culture.spagnolo, o soc.culture.spanish?
Ahora hay soc.culture.italian donde hablan italiano, soc.culture.french
donde se habla frances.  (Y en todos esos grupos, hablan de los U.S.A.
:-) )

Sorry for any errors - my Spanish is so rusty it makes my car look
good!  :-)

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin
From: brown@NCoast.ORG (Stan Brown)
Subject: comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer, 'rmgroup's respectfully suggested
Organization: Oak Road Systems, Cleveland Ohio USA
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 09:38:46 GMT

In article <spaf-active_716962655@cs.purdue.edu> Gene Spafford writes:
>Archive-name: active-newsgroups/part1
>Last-change: 19 Sep 1992 by spaf@cs.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford)
>
>comp.os.msdos.programmer	Programming MS-DOS machines.
        [...]
>comp.sys.ibm.pc.digest	The IBM PC, PC-XT, and PC-AT. (Moderated)
>comp.sys.ibm.pc.games	Games for IBM PCs and compatibles.
>comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	XT/AT/EISA hardware, any vendor.
>comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc	Discussion about IBM personal computers.
>comp.sys.ibm.pc.rt	Topics related to IBM's RT computer.
>comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard	Hardware and software aspects of PC sound cards.

In <1992Oct1.180844.25311@PA.dec.com>, Brian Reid (reid@decwrl.DEC.COM)
writes:    [99% of text deleted] 

>        +-- Estimated total number of people who read the group, worldwide.
>        |     +-- Propagation: how many sites receive this group at all
>        |     |      +-- Recent traffic (messages per month)
>        |     |      |    +-- Share: % of newsrders
>        |     |      |    |   who read this group.
>        V     V      V    V
>      18000   51%    90   1.3%  comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer 
>      42000   82%   540   3.0%  comp.os.msdos.programmer 

comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer is not in the "List of Active Newsgroups",
since it was changed to comp.os.msdos.programmer 25 months ago, in
September 1990.  It appears many sites have aliased
comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer to comp.os.msdos.programmer, so that articles
are still being sent out with the former newsgroup in the Newsgroups: line.

You may consider this a non-problem.  But users at the affected
sites aren't getting the best use out of Usenet since they're missing 
over 50 % of the potential respondents.  (If everyone who subscribed to
comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer also subscribed to comp.os.msdos.programmer,
questions posted to the former group would reach 43% of the combined
readership.  If the sets of subscribers to the groups were disjoint,
c.s.i.p.p subscribers would represent 30% of the total.  The truth is
somewhere between the two extremes; hence (subtracting from 100%)
subscribers to c.s.i.p.p only are missing between 57% and 70% of their
intended audience.)

-- 
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems                      brown@Ncoast.ORG
Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: aphelps@vicstoy.UUCP (Austin Phelps)
Subject: Re: not everybody uses UNIX to read news
Organization: vicstoy: Public Access Unix, Orlando, FL
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:57:18 GMT

>
>>11. Usenet is not a UNIX network.
>>
>>    Don't assume that everyone is using "rn" on a UNIX machine.  Among
>>    the systems used to read and post to Usenet are Vaxen running VMS,
>>    IBM mainframes, Amigas, and MS-DOS PCs.
>

Even Apple II's read news. There are three system here in the Orlando area
that get Usenet. One via FidoNet connection, the other two via Pro-Line
net connections.


-- 
  Austin Phelps - aphelps@vicstoy.oau.org - austin.phelps@oau.org
           UUCP - {peora,ge-dab,tous,tarpit}!bilver!vicstoy!aphelps
                - vicstoy Public Access Unix, Orlando FL
                - (407)299-3661  1200/2400/9600 V.32  24 hours  8N1
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.windows reorganization
Date: 14 Oct 1992 19:52:45 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <1992Oct14.120940.5800@ais.com> bruce@ais.com (Bruce C. Wright) writes:
>The problem, as you say, isn't with people who have found the correct
>newsgroups, but if the first thing one sees in comp.windows.misc says
>explicitly that this newsgroup is not for MS-Windows and directs the
>reader to the appropriate newsgroup, I think the problem will be greatly
>reduced.  The article doesn't have to be very big -- a dozen lines or so.

   Judging by my recent posting to comp.windows.misc which did exactly
what you describe, it will have absolutely no effect.  Of the thirty or so
articles which followed mine, only about two of them were not MS-Windows-
specific.
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.mecha
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:18:55 GMT

In article <Bw4H3G.GK2@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> deitrich@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dave Deitrich) writes:
>
>I've noticed this minor problem too.  Whenever anyone tries to bring up an
>anime-related gaming topic the rec.arts.anime people want it moved to rec.
>games.frp.misc, and the rec.games.frp.misc people want it to move back to
>rec.arts.anime.  However, the actual volume of anime-related games is so
>small (you can count them on one hand) that I don't think it's really 
>necessary yet for a rec.games.frp.anime.  Maybe in a few years if anime
>and anime-related games become more popular...

Unless it's a private email telling you to move the mecha stuff from
frp, I'm afraid I have not seen posts asking (or telling) people not
to post mecha stuff to rec.games.frp.misc, unless it it off topic 
(i.e. not frp).  Admittedly, I may have forgotten a post or 100 B^).

As far as I am concerned, as long as the MECHA people use an appropriate
TAG in their header, they should be welcome.  Using a tag such as:

MECHA:   RBTECH:    BTECH:

Will let those using decent newsreaders to add them to a killfile (yes, I know
about the current killfile flamewar), or to view the topics and quickly
bypass those they don't want to read.  If you have it, TRN makes a good
newsreader for r.g.f.*.

-Coyt (whose .newsrc is the biggest file in his directory, next to the 
	FAQs)
From: jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.archives.msdos.announce moderated and comp.archives.msdos.d
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:44:53 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <Bvt9n0.3Gw@uunet.uu.net> tale@ten.uu.net (David C Lawrence) writes:
>In article <BvpwHB.Gx5@uunet.uu.net> kko@sfu.ca (Samuel Ko) writes:
>
>   Proposed group:  comp.archives.msdos.d
    [charter deleted to save width]

>I am opposed to this group and will vote against it unless I can be
>convinced that it is somehow not redundant with comp.archives.admin,
>comp.sources.wanted, comp.os.msdos.apps and comp.os.msdos.misc.  The
>charter as written describes functions which are all subsumed by those
>groups.

I can state my reasons for not placing the announcements in those groups:

comp.archives.admin,

While peripherally concerned with the administration of archive sites, that
will not be the main purpose of the group, but rather this facet will be
administrators of archive sites announcing downtimes and similar items to
the general public, not to other administrators.

And the name of the group doesn't indicate to users that upload announcements
can be found there.

comp.sources.wanted

"sources" are considered "source code" in most cases, no matter what the
original charter implied.

And the name of the group doesn't indicate to users that upload announcements
can be found there.

comp.os.msdos.apps

This group is for discussion of applications, not for shareware/freeware/
*something*ware upload announcements.

And the name of the group doesn't indicate to users that upload announcements
can be found there.
(Are you being to detect a pattern? :-).
 
comp.os.msdos.misc.  

OK, you got me there, since *everything* overlaps .misc BUT

"And the name of the group doesn't indicate..."
 
Larry J

-- 
#L.W. Jewell Moderator at the Veterans Information Site (veteran@cc.purdue.edu)#
#& WWII-L Listowner: "Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange,#
#sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all   #
#phases of life." "Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41  #
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: kraig@kraig.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (kraig pendleton)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.autos.offroad
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 22:01:41 GMT

In article <BvpwHo.Gzr@uunet.uu.net>, gregc@jacobi.WPI.EDU (Greg "Your Friendly Neighborhood Poet" Charland) writes:
|>      This thread has come up before in rec.autos, so this time I figured I'd
|> do something.  This article is a Request For Discussion concerning a newsgroup
|> for people with an interest in Four-Wheel Drive vehicles, their operation, 
|> maintenance, history and other uses.

I vote YES.  I tried to get this going about a year ago.


|>      The discussion in this newsgroup could range from anything from
|> care and maintenance of four wheel drives to off-road driving techniques to
|> the environmental concerns off-road driving causes.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NO!  I am not interested in listening to (reading) environmental fanatics who
have no idea what I or most offroaders do off pavement.  I think that most
offroaders are very contientious(sp?) of preserving the environment (and their
favorite trail riding spot).  No need to give the enviro-freaks an opportunity to
overreact.

Let's stick to topics of importance to 4wheel drive owners/users.

|>      It seems to me that an alt.4wd group would be a good start.

I agree.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: london@calypso.uucp (Larry London)
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.health.alternative
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:48:11 GMT

You have my YES vote to start this newsgroup.