HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng)
Subject: Re: Political Prostitutes or Democractic Activitists  ?
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 09:57:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.125940.11065@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>In article <Bxx3BH.IFJ@cs.psu.edu> echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng) writes:
>........
>>
>>	The point is that MFN is a trade relation, it is NOT a good tool
>>promoting human rights.  Trade itself is a good tool promoting human
>>rights, since it brings economic development and gradual education
>>to people of the concepts of human rights.
>>
>>	In case you insist MFN should be used to promote human rights,
>>try to attach same conditions to *all* the countries that have same
>>or worse human rights conditions.  (Then you would realize how bad
>>this would lead to, I hope.)
>>
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be), but wasn't the whole idea of Most
>Favored Nation status developed in the first place so that the U.S. could
>use the US market as a lever to force other nations to meet certain
>human rights conditions? In other words, I think the whole reason for
>MFN is to tie trade to human rights.
>
>Why is the idea of forcing the CCP to release political prisoners so bad? 
>I really don't understand the opposition to that proposal.

Why don't you tell how the CMFN works ?   Why can the CCP be forced to
release political prisoners by CMFN ?   The CMFN make the human right
condition of ordinary people worse.   You should know that there 1.2
billion people in China, which is much larger than the amount of those
political prisoners.   It is amazing to see there are so many "so
called" human right promoters who don't like to mention human right 
of ordinary Chinese people.   What human right are you talking about ?



J Su

>
>>
>>
>>    Eddie
>
>Mark


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: gchu@buengf.bu.edu (Ching-Yao Chu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Need GM card phone #
Date: 17 Nov 92 02:31:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: College of Engineering, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: gchu@buengf.bu.edu

Hello Netters,

I'd appreciate if anyone can let me know the phone # for applying the 
GM credit card?  

...CYC
From: non@uiuc.cso.edu (hacker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: none so much
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:20:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxtsIo.9GL
Organization: uI

test again
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: ST403071@brownvm.brown.edu (H. Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: a piece of "dui4 ou3"
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:34:59 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In article <009638E9.7955CD00@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>,
uphhswh@Msu.oscs.montana.edu said:
>
>There was an exam problem in the entrance exam of Beida in 1940's which asks
>for the "dui4 ou3" of "sun1 xing2 zhe3". The standard answer is "zhu3 chong1
>zhi1". But another answer is the more likely one of a typical Beida's student:
>"hu2 shi4 zhi1".

I think this happened in Hsing Hua(Qing Hua) U.
From: rap@news (Ross Paterson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: MFN
Date: 19 Nov 1992 14:25:30 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
Reply-To: rap@doc.ic.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: peaberry.doc.ic.ac.uk

From article <1992Nov19.125940.11065@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, by mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha):
> Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be), but wasn't the whole idea of Most
> Favored Nation status developed in the first place so that the U.S. could
> use the US market as a lever to force other nations to meet certain
> human rights conditions? In other words, I think the whole reason for
> MFN is to tie trade to human rights.

I thought that withholding MFN (i.e. imposing extra trade barriers) was a
means of punishing nations the US was cross with.  There are fewer than a
dozen nations that come in for this treatment, aren't there?  Several off
the list have human rights records as bad or worse, they just haven't
defeated the US in a war, occupied a US embassy, etc, or asked the US
not to bring nuclear weapons into their ports.  I don't think you'd
suggest that MFN was withdrawn from New Zealand for human rights reasons.

But back on the point, I'd suggest that free trade, with the consequent
enrichment of China, is also the quickest way of destroying the CCP's
bureaucratic/totalitarian state.  It's also a lot safer and cheaper
all round than Cold War.  Certainly try for any improvements to human
rights you can get on the way, by making them think you might withdraw
MFN, but actually doing it would be disastrous.

Ross
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: etaylor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Euan R. Taylor)
Subject: Hong Kong and GATT questions
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Distribution: US
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:48:36 GMT

Two questions from an ignorant wai4 gou4  ren4

what do chinese people a) think and b) feel (please note the distinction)
about the current discussions / squabbling over the return of Hong Kong to
the PRC.?
Do chinese abroad or in China think the opinions of Hong Kong residents
should be listened to, do they think HK is sacred territory of the motherland?
I 've heard a lot about it from this side of the pond but I havent a clue
how people react to the issue from the Chinese viewpoint (as opposed to
the opinions of the chinese press and government)

question 2 
Is china involved in the GATT discussions, if so how does this mesh with
a largely state run indusatry and subsidies?

euan
etaylor@ccu.umanitoba.ca
From: yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon Yeh)
Subject: How much?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Organization: Netix Communications, Inc.
Date: 21 Nov 92 02:37:35 GMT

Many changes happened in China--either from bad to worse, or from bad to good.

Many plays have been played by those "d-fighters" and "bloodcarders".  

How many changes in China were made/caused/affected by those "d-fighters"?

So, why don't you forget the MFN/CMFN shit?

shannon
-------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: jwr7133@ultb.isc.rit.edu (J.W. Rambeau)
Subject: PinYin?
Originator: jwr7133@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 06:36:05 GMT

Hello everyone,

      What is the PinYin?  If I wanted learn PinYin, I should know in
Chinese Language.  How long I can learn Chinese Language?  How I can
learn it shorter time?  I would like to learn Chinese Language for
Read/Write only (Not Speak).

      How I can receive the Chinese names dictionary (For example: Xin,
Yi-shin, etc...).  I would included last name (Example: Wu, Xu, Wong,
etc...).  I hope I can receive file from Anonymous FTP for the
Macintosh.

Thank you for your help.

Your friendly user,
Jeramey Rambeau

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: chungdan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Zhong Qi Iao (Daniel))
Subject: [dating] Re: dating a guy from China [by a non-Mainland Chinese]
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 02:11:35 GMT


     Good luck to the original poster of the article, which I am responding.

     It is a good sign that people from various parts of China, precisely
speaking different *political* parts of China, that is the Chinese Mainland
("New York Times" uses the term "Chinese Mainland" instead of "Mainland
Chinese"), Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao.  There does not exist too much
cultural differences between us now, or perhaps with the bond of
the United Status of America, in which we live, and with our "national
dialect" of the language, and of culture dating (pun) from now back
to the times before our country was split (sob).

     However, Chinese are so few here.  Thus the original poster
does not even have a close friend to ask, and is then posting it on
the net.  Of course, there are probably many same-boaters -- but
unfortunately, net readers are mostly computer science students, or
people working in company companies, which is not a good mix of people.
But when same-boaters *do* exist, they have gone through the process,
and they -- I guess -- must be willing to give help.

						*Zhong* Qi-Iaoa (Mr.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re: What do we Chinese celebrate?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:56:37 GMT

In article <By4zLL.HHD@cs.psu.edu> jyw@phys.psu.edu (Jin-Yuan Wu) writes:
>
>	Thank you for the teaching, though everyone knows it.
>	The problem was not to evaluate working style, but rather, 
>	whether the Chinese people who worked hard to make their country
>	stronger should be respected or not.

I'd think a person who works to make his family better is more
respectable than a person who is to make his country stronger.
Nothing to argue if the two do not conflict.

>	If someone can respect W. Clinton, (no problem on respecting to
>	a person and no problem on congratulation to him as long as he
>	is viewed as US president only) why can't he respect Chinese
>	people?

Clinton is respected because he has sympathy to the Chinese people.
Chinese government is not respected because it has no respect to the
Chinese people (including asking people work for 20 hrs a day and
send children to gradma :-). 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re: What do we Chinese celebrate? (Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous?)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:10:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.92154.13449@ms.uky.edu> gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li) writes:
>
>It is not a problem of "proud of" or "shame of", you should respect people
>first, especially when you want people to work for you or support your idea.
>If you "shoot" aimlessly at all who happen to be called "Chinese" and shame
>them, how do we know you are going to give us a bright society. I don't
>like to live in a society where I could be shamed everyday.

I am not a politician and I don't expect people to work for me
(if they do, I will pay them fairly) or to support me. My objective
is to tell the truth, to analyze and to reveal. I too, happen to be
called "Chinese". I don't think I am unfair.

I understand your wish to live in a bright society. Historically,
it is this wish that drove the world moving forward. When American
had slaves, it was dark. Even white American felt ashamed. The
non-democartic society is shameful, because it does not respect
the will of its citizens. If you don't like it, speak out, you
will not be shameful.

>Because that is part of the life of nowadays world. Compared with war, hard
>working is not that bad.

We work for peace, not for war.

>Well, we will learn from you.

Thank you, but don't expect too much :-).
From: yzhang@crcvms.unl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: For Sijin.
Date: 17 Nov 92 09:34:13 CST
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
NNTP-Posting-Host: crcvms.unl.edu

Hi, there,  I tried to reply to you but didn't succeed. Would you send me
an e-mail again.  The address I used is in%"sijin@dxcern.cern.ch", which is
apparently not correct.   Thanks.    Y.-K. Zhang
From: lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Culture and Grave
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:37:23 GMT
Organization: Boston University

In article <9210167219.AA72195@ccmail.uoregon.edu> Tuya@ccmail.uoregon.edu (Tuya) writes:
>
>          Why are chinese poor and what is wrong with the chinese
>          culture?

Good question indeed.

>          I think we can blame the idea of "quan2 pan2 xi1 hua4,"

No, I don't think so. Dr. Hu has his points: Learn as much as you can
before you make judgment what to learn.

>          especially Chairman Mao who advocated for this and learned
>          ideas from the west, especially Germany.  The results are
>          clear.

No, Mao even did not bother to read Marx. What he "learnd" from Germany
was no more than "Rebel is reasonable" - in fact he did not need to learn
this from Germany. His famous "Highest Instruction" can be modified as
the following:

SanGuo and ShuiHu has many good stories, but all in all, I can condense
them in a few words, i.e., It is fun to rebel.

>          I don't think we should be appologetic for being chinese,
>          though.  One of the problems with our culture is exactly we
>          are appologetic.  Look at Su Xiaokang.  He recently decided
>          the "yellow civilization" may not necessarily be lower than
>          the "blue."

Before he makes another propaganda-history film, he'd better take free
tutoring service on SCC.
>
>          We may dig out our ancestors from the grave, and whip them
>          for 300 times, the end result, I am afaid, is not going to
>          be we become rich.  But instead, we will be blamed for our
>          behavior, which is again, part of our culture.  What do you
>          guys think?

To find out what is wrong and to learn from other cultures is totally
different from whipping our ancestors.

The key is to seek truth from facts, not to follow any tide or fashion.
-- 
The SOS China Education Fund is a non-political, non-profit and independent
organization to raise money promoting the education in rural China. All donations
are tax-deductable. Make checks or money orders payable to: "SOS China Education
Fund"; c/o Jie KANG, 2610 E. 5th Pl, Apt. 1, Tulsa, OK74104, USA.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng)
Subject: Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous?
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 03:57:40 GMT

In article <BxonBo.IA9@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
>In article <1992Nov13.050420.3727@marlin.jcu.edu.au> phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng) writes:
>
>>If the American president wants to become the president of the world, he
>>should fully open his national boundary first.
>>
>>J Su
>
>If the center Chinese government don't let Chinese people to vote,
>it should allow every province to go independent. By the way, who
>are they? Who give them right to govern China? God? Chairman Mao?
>Heaven?
>
How do your comments explain your suggestion "the American president is
the president of the world" ?   The world also includes China, Japan,
Australia, UK, .......


J Su

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: yao@perform1.tti.com (Yuhan Yao)
Subject: Re: IBM's Hiring Policy, Info needed
Organization: Citicorp/TTI
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:47:32 GMT

In article <5c681ef3.1b2f0@digital.sps.mot.com> chen@digital.sps.mot.com (Jinfu Chen) writes:
>
>I could elaberate more in export license if there're enough interests.

Yes, please.
From: chen@digital.sps.mot.com (Jinfu Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: IBM's Hiring Policy, Info needed
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:25:28 GMT
Organization: Motorola, LICD, SPS, Mesa, AZ

In article <1992Nov12.104634@IASTATE.EDU> zeng@IASTATE.EDU (Shaohui Zeng) writes:
>The large companies like IBM generally don't hire foreigners, not because
>you are foreigner(or they are discreminating). It's because that will cause
>them a lot of work and money to make you stay in the States legally.

This statement is blantly wrong.  Large US companies do hire foreign
nationals, either outside US or not.  And they do hire foreign nationals
and sponsor them applying labor certifications and immigrations.  As a matter
of fact, many large companies like Motorola even have its own legal
department to handle such matters instead of hiring outside law firms.  And
large companies are usually in better position in terms of spending money to
hire foreigners than smaller one and generally they pay **all** legal
expenses which account less than 8k per applicants.

Having said that, it doesn't mean large companies will treat Chinese
(mainland) nationals like other foreigners equally.  The major problem is the
US export control license which I have run into a few months ago when trying
to hire two PRC nationals.  Because of the license issue, it's almost
impractical for any company who is under the export license restriction to
consider PRC nationals without permanent residence status.  And usually large
companies do have products under the export restrictions.  This may create an
illusion that PRC nationals are discreminated which is not true.

In many companies, large or small, the hiring policy is mainly based on
applicant's qualifications.  All things considered equal, an US citizen or
permanent resident is considered first before foreigners.  Foreigners are
hired usually because of their talents and educatoin degrees aren't matched
for a given position.  This is especially true in research area.

I could elaberate more in export license if there're enough interests.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: xiaobiao@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (X(b)Z,408A Thurston Hall,59155,)
Subject: Re: NEWS: China overseas policy change
Originator: xiaobiao@msc2.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:23:35 GMT

From article <By18CC.HBw@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, by umhuang4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Hui Huang):
> In <1992Nov20.013233.13448@msc.cornell.edu> xiaobiao@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (X(b)Z,408A Thurston Hall,59155,) writes:
> 
>>From article <1992Nov19.120457.90647@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>, by mte152s@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au:
>>> ......
>>> Indeed, even after TAM in 1989, an American journalist surprisingly found that
>>> Chinese students were not stopped by the Chinese Government, rather, they are
>>> refused by US consulate officials in Peking, who were inforcing a new
>>> tightenening of visa for Chinese students (see an article in the International
> 
>>The stupid American journalist, like most of his western peers, only looked at 
>>what happened in Beijing around that time, and got his most misleading answer!
> 
> I applied for my passport and visa at the same time in September 1989. I
> got the passport in one month and the visa in one year. The Chinese official
> didn't ask anything but the Canadian one asked a lot.


I'd like to know in which city (Beijing?) you got your passport before I can 
say something.  Also, I know applying for visa to go to Canada was (probably 
IS) remarkably long, and I'm only talking about visa appl. to USA.
From: ck883@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Zheng Cung)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: GM card 1-800-#
Date: 19 Nov 1992 03:08:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu
From: jzdong@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Zunhai Dong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: test
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:19:20 GMT
Reply-To: jzdong@sci.ccny.cuny.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility


 this is only a test.
From: lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Patriotism sucks (Re:  What the HK governor is doing?  Why?)
Date: 24 Nov 92 00:26:30 GMT
Organization: Boston University

In article <By6s77.C85@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> bihkyan@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Yang Yuanxin) writes:
>In article <102920@bu.edu> lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) writes:
>>(deleted)
>  Certainly this is the first time I have ever heared of this, I will

That is why education is important.

>spend more time on histry. But if you want to use this as an excuse for
>your betraying to your former homeland China, it is not acceptable.

I dare not, I am afraid of you P-fighters.
>>
>>Even this tutoring is free, it is strongly suggested for Prof. Li
>>to donate a few bucks for young kids' education so that our young
>>generation will be better educated in both math and history.
>
>  Stop humiliating those poor children by joking begging infront ot

Why do you think I am joking? I am serious. Several SCC netters have
donated or joined SOS as volunteers. Please tell me what I said made
you think I am joking? I'll improve my fund raising skill. Well, this
is only the second time I ever begged -- the first one was last year's
flood donation. I donated and helped donation, should I feel ashamed?

>readers all over the world! By the time you have collected 1000$, those
>children would have gotten their PhDs.

Not necessarily that slow. I'll tell you when SCC donation reach $1000.
I am quite confident, because we have so many P-fighters on net. 
>
>>(deleted)
>  If those children and their parents have seen this, they will feel
>humiliated, the reason is you are not serious at all, any body can find
>this if he has read your posts.       

Please help me to revise. I said before, a netter sent me angry message
after reading my signature. So I took it off. But later a netter in Canada
sent me an email, wishing to donate. My signature was enclosed in his/her
mail, this encouraged me to add my signature back. But I never know why
some would be offended. Please help me to revise it.

>  If you really want to help those poor children, you should take it
>seriously, sincerely!, don't make it like a joke.
>
> Y. Yang

Thanks in advance for tell me why you think it is a joke.
-- 
The SOS China Education Fund is a non-political, non-profit and independent
organization to raise money promoting the education in rural China. All donations
are tax-deductable. Make checks or money orders payable to: "SOS China Education
Fund"; c/o Jie KANG, 2610 E. 5th Pl, Apt. 1, Tulsa, OK74104, USA.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:51:11 EST
From: <XXX100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Zhou En-lai, the helper of Mao

>From: wma@ella.carleton.ca (Weidian Ma)
>Subject: Zhou En-lai, the helper of Mao
>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:06:19 GMT
>


>Zhou En-lai was the main supporter of Mao Zedong.


                    That depends on which period you are
                    talking about.

                    Mao's supporters were not Zhou only after ZunYi,after 1949.
                    Everyone tried to claim himself,
                    even some dead also kept their faith in Mao.



>If Mao was good, so was Zhou.


                     Simple enough.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li)
Subject: Re: Patriotism sucks (Re: What the HK governor is doing? Why?)
    <By6EC4.9z6@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <102920@bu.edu> 
    <By6s77.C85@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:47:27 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

bihkyan@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Yang Yuanxin) writes:

>  If those children and their parents have seen this, they will feel
>humiliated, the reason is you are not serious at all, any body can find
>this if he has read your posts.       
>  If you really want to help those poor children, you should take it
>seriously, sincerely!, don't make it like a joke.

> Y. Yang
> 
Calm down getleman, your motive is very good. But let us have some white cat
as well as black cat, ok? Before there is another seriously, sincerely movement
on this net, let's leave Lix alone. I am for Lix on this issue. But I'll keep
my right to choose where to donate my money.
From: gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: What pride to take in being a Chinese?
Keywords: Mao Zhuxi,6.4
Date: 15 Nov 92 16:19:22 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

zeng@IASTATE.EDU (Shaohui Zeng) writes:

>I was told to be proud of being a Chinese since I was young. Now I am
>lost as I come up with this question, what pride to take in being a 
>Chinese?

I did not chose to be born as a Chinese, God did this to me.
God is great, I am proud of whoever God wants me to be. If I'll be
Chinese all my life, God means it, if I'll be nonChinese later, God means it.
God can not be shamed, so as God's decision.
Hope this can answer this frequetly asked question.
If you don't have anything to believe, ....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china