HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:58:19 GMT

>>>> Is it "dangerous"?  Can the "satanic" affect someone who doesn't
>>>> believe in it?
>>>
>>> If Satanism is for real, absolutely yes!!!
>>>
>>> You don't have to believe in quantum physics to get killed by a nuclear
>>> bomb.  The same must hold true for Satanism, or it's nonsense.

Maybe some of you would like to come up with a definition of what
exactly Satanism *is*...

>My point, however, is: IF Voodoo hexes are for real it's just as
>possible for Sagan to get hexed as it is for him to die from AIDS.

Interesting theory.  What do you mean by "for real?"

>>> Oh ye of little faith! If deomic possession is for real, again,
>>> absolutely YES.

What meaning, again, do you assign to "for real?"

>>>I didn't say what my beliefs were!  (I was saying, =if= posession exists,
>then...)  And if you want to know, I believe posession is a possibility,
>but I'm not convinced of its reality.

How do you define possession so as to believe in its possibility?
From: donnell@tuna.micro.umn.edu (BogusMan)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Bush is a Satanist, and here's proof!
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:35:21 GMT
Organization: none

In article <1992Dec10.100355.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>In article <Bz1B82.GBE@cs.psu.edu>, jdh@math.psu.edu (Jeremy D Hall) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec9.184824.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>>>I was watching Rush Limbaugh Monday night (I need a dose of humor
>>>as an antidote to a dull life, okay?) and he ran a tape of George
>>>Bush's inaugural ball. The camera swept over the crowd, showing
>>>men and women expensively dressed, drinking and chatting together.
>>>Then the Bushes came onstage. Immediately everyone began cheering
>>>and clapping, and several thrust their hand up in a certain
>>>salute.
>>>
>>>"I recognize that sign," I thought to myself. The hand in a fist,
>>>first and fourth fingers extended...why gosh, that looks like the
>>>same sign that kajillions of youth make at rock concerts, the one
>>>that has gotten them all labelled as Satanists!
>>>
>>>Could it be that Republicans are witches? Or are they just heavy
>>>metal fans in disguise?
>>>
>>>--Semhaza
>> 
>> Hate to disappoint you here, but...seeing as how Bush is a Texan (this month,
>> anyway), that was probably a Longhorn symbol you see Texas fans use at
>> sporting events...
>> 
>> -Jeremy Hall
>> -Penn State Univ.
>
>My point was, why couldn't the kids at the concerts be Texans too? Or why
>couldn't the symbol have some other meaning? Like, "hey, I'm at a concert!"
>Why is it that when conservative rich snots do it, it's okay, and when teens
>do it, it's a symbol of evil?
>
>--Semhaza 

So the Longhorn's fans are Satanists too. I always thought so...

Pax
					--Judex--
Organization: Sophomore, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:56:17 -0500 
From: Matthew Keith Egan <me1f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
	<Bz8xGp.9Hp@unccsun.uncc.edu>

A pentagram was merely a Pythagorean symbol as far as I know.  They used
as an entrance test, the task of inscribing a regular pentagon in a
circle.  And they liked the idea of connecting the five points of a
regular pentagon to form a star with another regular hexagon inside it. 
A few other Greeks (most notably Aristotle's followers) didn't like the
Pythaghoreans (who were better geometers and also vegetarians) and the
symbol aquired an 'evil' connotation which was later associated with
satanism and witchcraft.  Even the shirts from math team at my high
school had pentagrams on them (or maybe my math teachers were all
Satanist.......).
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Date: 16 Dec 92 10:32:17 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Lekskola, G|teborg, G|taland

In article <92350.135554WCE2@psuvm.psu.edu> WCE2@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>Most experts say that apparently normal Xns may have
>as many as 200 demons indwelling them

  Have they tried raising their rent and destroying the plumbing? :)

>Bill Ellis (wce2 @ psuvm.psu.edu)                 Editor, FOAFtale News

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher)
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 04:32:37 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Dec14.012728.17924@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> radinsky@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Radinsky) writes:

[good advice about choice of belief system deleted]

>> Is it "dangerous"?  Can the "satanic" affect someone who doesn't
>> believe in it?
>
>If Satanism is for real, absolutely yes!!!
>
>You don't have to believe in quantum physics to get killed by a nuclear
>bomb.  The same must hold true for Satanism, or it's nonsense.

You forget psychological effects. To those who believe in Voudoun practices,
a hex is as good as an AIDS diagnosis to a westerner (hidden message here). 
If a Voudoun hexed me, I would probobly tweak hir nose. I'd like to see a 
voodoo hex on, say, Carl Sagan take effect...
What the thinker thinks, the proover prooves.

>> The question I get asked most often is, "What does it mean?", does it
>> HAVE to mean anything?
>
>What is more important, a symbol, or the meaning behind the symbol?
>
>Why do you wear it if it has no meaning to you?

Why do we wear neckties? Do they have any meaning to us? Why wear any clothes
or jewelry at all? 
Aesthetic appeal is MORE than enough reason to wear an object. The fact that
this guy gets compliments on his bit of jewelry is probobly reason enough (it
would be for me). I have a cross I occasionally wear, as well as a st. 
Christopher medallion (my middle namesake). I wear 'em cause I like the way
they look, not for any esoteric meanings. 

It has been my experience that occult symbols are basically useless in 
identifying adepts. Most I have met are pretty ordinary looking. I have found
that those who "ham it up" so to speak, are usually beginners, pagans or
poseurs. (No 'fence to those in the crowd who do make extreme use of satanic
"glamour")
 
>> Can demonic "possesion" affect anyone, despite their beliefs in
>> any or no religion?
>
>Oh ye of little faith! If deomic possession is for real, again,
>absolutely YES.

Again, get a demon to posess a dogmatic rationalist and you will have grounds 
to assert this. I suspect that YOU would be eminently vulnerable to both the
psychic effects of pentagrams & "demonic posession" as you seem to have some
sort of opinion as to the efficacy of these things.

Personally I hope LOTS of people hold the same beliefs as you. It enables
assorted sneaky folks such as myself to use them as the Tuatha de Dannan used
"glamour" to bewitch the common folk. The "occult" archetypes present in 
western culture have enabled me to pull off a few coups that would not be
possible by conventional methods (I leave the details as an exercise of the
imagination of the reader). Crowley was a great master of this...
My "physicist" archetype has also served me well. To most people, the work
of a physicist is as frightening and bewildering as that of the satanist...

>(Spiritual dabbling might make you more vulnerable, though.)

Agreed. See my previous post for details...

>Wayne (the Anxious Puppy).
hmmmm....
-Scott
From: lfoul@terapin.com (Jake McClean)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Oh so worried.
Date: 13 Dec 92 22:20:56 GMT
Organization: BBS

I don't exactly contribute all that much to this newsgroup, but I do find the
discussions here extremely interesting.  I've been getting more and more
involved in the whole pagan/Satanic issues, and I'm beginning to really
question the validity of it all.  First off, I have no set "religion", in fact,
I despise religion.  To me, religion is just a unbelievably huge tool used to
manipulate the masses.  It started back when some genius/psycho
came up with a scheme for worldwide power, (or perhaps just control of some
people out in a desert somewhere; it doesn't really matter) and using various
myths and assorted legends, wrote the Bible.  Yeah, it's NOT that simple, but
to make my own small point, I believe the Bible means and (this goes to all you
xtians and born again xtians) PROVES nothing.  Absolutely nothing.  If the
bible gives proof in Christ, then the Satanic bible proves, well, anything it
wants.  (I have yet to read it..)

I don't wear much in the way of, uh, jewelry and the like, with the exception
of an earring and a neckless.  Attatched to the chain around my neck is a
pentagram (with one point up, NOT in the Satanic position) which I get constant
complements on.  I swear, not a day goes by that I don't get a comment on my
pentagram from a friend or mostly, a total stranger.  The pentagram itself is
made of peuter (sp?), and is approximately one inch in width.  (Oh, it's a
pentram inscribed in a circle..)  The surface of the pentram itself and the
circle has been grooved to make it look like some sort of vine, the points of
the pentram each have to small leaves protruteng from the end, and in the
center of the pentagram is a small red gem, which seems black unless hit by
very bright light, which will cause it glow with a seemingly inward glow.  My
question is this:  Is it "dangerous"?  Can the "satanic" affect someone who
doesn't believe in it?  The question I get asked most often is, "What does it
mean?", does it HAVE to mean anything?

I am intrigued also at the workings of possesions.  I've just finished a book
by Malachi Martin, called Hostage to the Devil.  This book recounted the
possesion of five americans in great detail, and has sparked my interest in the
subject.  Can demonic "possesion" affect anyone, despite their beliefs in
any or no religion?
 
Aw, hell.  Screw it, I'm just one confused individual, wouldn't you say?
 
                                                -Lord Foul
 
"Most of the time we don't communicate, we just take turns talking."
From: WCE2@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:46:42 GMT
 <1992Dec18.064005.24858@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
 <1992Dec18.072715.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>
Organization: Penn State University

For Wayne: (as I'm in a hurry)

Good sources on spotting demons inside Xns:

Don Basham, _Deliver Us from Evil_ and _Can a Christian Have a Demon?_

H. A. Maxwell Whyte, _Dominion over Demons_ and _The Kiss of Satan_

Kurt E. Koch, _Christian Counselling and Occultism_ [This is the 20th
C _Malleus Malificarum_ and is used as a resource by virtual every
Xn demon-hunter including Hal Lindsay of _Satan Is Alive and Well on
Planet Earth_], and _Occult Bondage and Deliverance_

Good survey if you want a slightly more objective source: Leslie Watkins,
_The Real Exorcists_: very good on the British material and absolutely
devastating on Xn child abuse cases.  Yes, I agree that it's illogical
to try to avoid Satan by beating your kid to death or putting it into an
oven--but who said that the religious experience is logical, hey?  (Not
that I intend to give it a try anytime soon, for Jesus, Satan, Polymath, or
Tautology).

Sorry this is a list: quotations available when I have less work to do.
.
Bill Ellis (wce2 @ psuvm.psu.edu)                 Editor, FOAFtale News
Penn State, Hazleton Campus                       Voice: 717-450-3026
Hazleton, PA 18201-1291                           Fax: 717-450-3182
     "He who affirms the devil, creates the Devil." --Eliphas Levi
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 11:15:35 EST
From: <WCE2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Bush a Satanist?

Yes, this is the Bilderburger/Trilateral/Illuminati conspiracy theory: a good
early statement of this is Phyllis Schlafly's incomparable contribution to
the flea market book mart scene, _A Choice Not an Echo_, which argues that
Nelson Rockefeller and the whole East Coast liberal-tinged Republican club
was in some sinister way attending top secret meetings with *gasp!* card-
carrying Democrats that they had known in college or in other collegial
environments.  Goldwater was the world's answer to Trilateralism, and, after
him, Reagan, who was induced in his senility to make a token sop to the
East Coast libs in taking Bush as his running mate.
   My basic answer to this is that the Trilaterals had their chance to take
over the US and create a New World Order in Adam Weishaupt's sense when they
had Ford and Rockefeller in; neither elected by the public!  So what did they
do?  Nada!  Then the Bilderburgers got another of their patsies in--Carter.
Again, a Satanic Revolution.  Damn!  Why can't the Illuminati find someone
competent to bring on the godless revolution?
.
Bill Ellis (wce2 @ psuvm.psu.edu)                 Editor, FOAFtale News
Penn State, Hazleton Campus                       Voice: 717-450-3026
Hazleton, PA 18201-1291                           Fax: 717-450-3182
     "He who affirms the devil, creates the Devil." --Eliphas Levi

Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: Mitchell.Porter@launchpad.unc.edu (Mitchell Porter)
Subject: Bush a Satanist?
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:42:42 GMT


On a completely different tangent, there is a school of thought amongst
far-right Christian-fundamentalist cosmic-conspiracy-theorists,
apparently, that Bush is a Satanist by virtue of being a member of Skull &
Bones. In 1991 I went to a function held by a small conservative group, at
which a number of privately published books and periodicals could be
bought. (I was doing an RAWilson-like exercise of visiting other
reality-tunnels; the day before I had gone to a rally held by the
"International Socialists", and I was struck by a similarity between the
periodical "The Socialist", and the conservative-Christian periodical "The
Citizen": both had headlines declaiming against "the New World Order",
with articles on Iraq and Panama in particular - in *both* publications.)
  One of the books on sale at this function was open at a cartoon of Bush
lying naked in a coffin, saying "Hail Satan!" As I recall, standing around
him were various political figures dressed in KKK-style robes (the only
name I recall was William F Buckley Jr - presumably they were all S&B
members), with one of them declaiming "Gentlemen - I give you the next
President of the United States!" This same cartoon I later saw in the AMOK
book catalog (AMOK being the people who put out "Apocalypse Culture",
mentioned in the alt.satanism FAQ), so i presume they sell the book as well.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher)
Subject: Black Flame (review)
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 03:39:28 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Just returned from the Abyss bookstore. Since there has been some interest in
Satanic magazines, I picked up[ a copy of "The Black Flame"
First off, it is only 50 pages or so long and it cost me $6! Minus points
there. Second, it appears to be an organ of the Church of Satan. This was
something I did not expect; I always thought the CoS journal was called "The 
Cloven Hooff" or something. A pleasant suprise was the appearance of many names
familiar to the USENET satanist crowd. Reuben Radding & uncle Setnakt among 
them.

The contents of the article dealt mostly with Satanic ideals, politics
& society. There were no articles on magick per se. Lots of the mag consisted 
of advertisements for other "occult" or satanic jounals & books. This was 
useful but I would have rather seen more articles, less "filler". Interestingly
enough, many of the ads were for books recommended (by me & others) in the FAQ.
Many of the ads were for music that appeals to me as well; nice to know that
there is some sort of Satanist "society" out there which I am (unconsciously)
conforming to (or is it nice to know? At least I can say that I did not aquire 
this "culture" from anything other than my own explorations...)

On reading some of the political & social articles, I was again pleasantly 
suprised to hear many of what I thought to be my own unique philosophies
echoed in the writings of others. The  satanist "meme-pool" seems to be
self- consistant at least.

Lastly, I noticed a singular lack of religious in squabbling between the
various satanic organizations printed  in this mag. I did notice a bit of
ToS & CoS political rhetoric posted here at one point (though nothing serious,
it was a bit depressing to see satanic orgs fall prey to the same baloney
that xtian sects enjoy). This was entirely absent from this edition of the
mag (after first reading, perhaps there are subtle barbs somewhere). There was
even a section on other Satanic orgs with philosophical ties to the CoS.

It is published in two "double issues" per yerar & costs $12 for the subscrip.
If you would like to subscribe, send a check (made out to "Hell's Kitchen 
Productions")

P.O Box 499
Radio City Station
N.Y., N.Y. 10101-0499

I do not know if I will subscribe, I actually get lots of the same from USENET
but I would recommend that anyone interested in Satanist as a philosophy
or Social movement aquire at least one copy of this mag.

ye servante of ye great olde ones...

-Scott
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Depeche Mode's "Black Celebration"
Date: 13 Dec 92 01:55:36 GMT
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1gdqerINNlii@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> kar5@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Roll) writes:
>
>My girfriend played me this album last night... it was interesting, to say
>the least. The whole thing was very sexual and seemed to have satanist
>overtones. She claims that at the beginning and the end of the first song,
>a raspy voice says "praise Satan." Anyone know anything about this?
>
>-- 
>AMIGA///| Zeta |  / |/  | | | | | \ /  |\ | | |\ |\ \ / |
>    /// | Psi  |  \ |   | |\| |\|  |   |/ | | |/ |/  |  | These are a few
>\\\///  |      |  / |\  | | | | |  |   |  |_| |  |   |  | of my favorite
> \XX/   |      |  S  K  I  N   N   Y   P   U  P  P   Y  | things...



Nope. Never heard of it; thanx for the recommendation.
In a similar vein try _Sleep Chamber_ "Sex Magick Ritual"....

-Scott
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher)
Subject: Re: Magan_script
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:35:46 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Dec15.083532.9423@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> huebnerd@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Daniel Huebner) writes:
>
>Who can tell me where to get a copy of the Magan-script ?



Is this an 'Avon Necronomicon' question?
I HATE 'Avon Necronomicon' questions!

Read some books on Sumerian Mythology. Less pretentious & more accurate.

-Lupo
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:55:54 EST
From: <WCE2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
 <Bz8xGp.9Hp@unccsun.uncc.edu> <1992Dec15.005154.27301@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>

Wayne Radinsky writes something to the effect that to become possessed, one
must *do* something to become possessed, such as play with a Ouija board.
(BTW, Parker Bros. is advertising the Ouija again on TV as an ideal Xmas
present and offering special prices for it at dept. store sales.  They must
have gotten over their decade-long insecurity about it: Hail Santa!)

The only problem with this is that if you read any of the tomes on exorcism,
you find that the means of getting possessed are polymath and ubiquitous.
(Hail Polymath and Ubiquitous, y'all!).  Read your horoscope in the paper,
get a demon; open a fortune cookie, get a demon; buy Procter & Gamble products,
 get a demon, and so on.  Most experts say that apparently normal Xns may have
as many as 200 demons indwelling them and silently twisting them to the wrong.
The problem comes when one wants to get rid of them: then you have to get a
good charismatic exorcist who will go through the proper rituals to get the
indwelling demons to manifest themselves and give their names, then wrestle
them out of the person through such means as shouting about the blood of Jesus
in the victim's ear and getting everyone in sight to pile on in case the demon
tries to attack the exorcist.  I gather once the demons come out, there is a
feeling of euphoria similar to that of abreacting the trauma of one's birth
through primal screaming.

The difficulty is (and I've had this from an Xn student) that once you're
"clear" of demons, avoiding the variety of ways they can reenter makes it
virtually impossible to live in a secular world, so the tendency is to become
part of a survivalist-oriented Xn cult that defines the rest of the world as
demon-polluted and incredibly dangerous to one's soul.  The irony is that what
you get into at this point is the real-life analog to the awful satanic cult
that makes you kill kids and have sex orgies: and from what I've read about
real cults like Jim Jones's, they can be pretty messy.

I think I'll learn to get along with Polymath and Ubiquitous and all the rest
of my demonic cranial nestlings.
.
Bill Ellis (wce2 @ psuvm.psu.edu)                 Editor, FOAFtale News
Penn State, Hazleton Campus                       Voice: 717-450-3026
Hazleton, PA 18201-1291                           Fax: 717-450-3182
     "He who affirms the devil, creates the Devil." --Eliphas Levi

Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Grimoir?
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:50:13 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Dec13.182921.3434@rose.com>, mark.terka@rose.com (mark terka) writes:
> 
> Date Entered: 12-13-92 13:21
> I recently came across this translation of an old Grimoir. It sounds like
> a sex magic rite related to Thelema, but I'm not too sure. Anyone else
> familiar with this?

If it's based on Thelema (which I certainly think it is, having looked it over)
how old can it be?

It looks slightly familiar, but I can't place it. I'm not into modern rituals
myself, since they feel too artificial.

--Semhaza
P.S. No matter what happens this coming semester, it looks like I won't have
this account, and I may not be on Netnews next year. Interested in staying in
touch? E-mail me for an address. I'll probably be disappearing December 24.
Newsgroups: alt.satanism