HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joheko@jyu.fi (Jonne Henrikki Kolima)
Subject: Aaaarghh *moan*
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:20:59 GMT


		For the last couple of weeks most of the postings
	in this group have been Jarmo Ryyti-related flames. Now, 
	Jarmo said some pretty outrageous things and my personal 
	guess is that he wanted to start a flame-war (if not, he 
	takes some things a bit too seriously). Well anyway, what I'm
	trying to say here is that maybe it's time to forget about 
	the bloody genocide-bit. I mean, I'm getting mighty sick of
	people sending flames about something that was said weeks ago!!
	And what's more worrying, some swedes are taking this whole
	thing more seriously than Jarmo, and that's pretty damn serious.
	Get real swedos, it's not a matter of life & death, you know
	(allright, you're discussing about genocide, but still).
	Besides, Jarmo has sent quite ordinary postings lately, and
	still he gets flamed!! Maybe we should rename this newsgroup
	alt.flame.nordic. You swedes are always boasting about your
	'intellectual maturity' when compared to other Nordic countries,
	so maybe it's time you showed us some of it, right?

	(how do you make a bored face instead of smilies?)


-- 
                 -jhk-
From: tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Anti-foreign Attitudes in Scandinavia.....
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:21:59
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland, Laboratory for Information
	Processing (VTT/TIK)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tik.vtt.fi
In-reply-to: bhamis@mace.cc.purdue.edu's message of Sun, 22 Nov 1992 05:21:08 GMT

In article <By3qv9.F8w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> bhamis@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Satya Bhamidipati) writes:
    I am curious to hear about anti-foreign attitudes in Scandinavia, 
    especially in Finland. Does it exist ? 

Sure.  If people in Finland can be fanatically anti-Swedish when the
Swedes are "racially" next to indistinguishable from the Finns, just
imagine the feelings about "more foreign" looking foreigners.  Of
course we *love* WASP Americans, they aren't really "foreigners" :-)
But if your friend has a similar name as you, he/she could be heading
for some nasty surprises.

    If it does, under what circumstances and how ?

Mostly it bubbles under the surface, but watch out late nights when
people have had some, eh, "refreshments".
--
Tor Lillqvist,
working, but not speaking, for the Technical Research Centre of Finland,
Laboratory for Information Processing (VTT/TIK).
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg)
Subject: Re: M.A. Numminen (was: Assimilation of the Finns in Northern-Sweden)
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:58:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.081649.23310@eua.ericsson.se> euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall) writes:

By eliminating some intervening lines, a great truth emerges:

>>      Dass die Sonne morgen aufgeht ist eine Hypothese,
>>      und dass bedeutet dass wir NICHT WISSEN ob sie morgen aufgeht

>       "Frnsett att det inte fungerar, hur tycker ni att det verkar?"

Realistically yours,
Bob H
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: Re: Denmark to the Arctic Sea! (was Re: The Finns,...)
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 11:43:26 GMT

In article <STEINARB.92Nov16101536@hagtorn.idt.unit.no> steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang) writes:
>>>>>> karl@diku.dk (Karl-Christian Hansen) writes:
>
>> Now we're at the historical rights of our beloved country, we
>> shouldn't forget the Danelaw. (Brits might disagree!)
>
>> Denmark from the Nordkap to the Seine, and from Tallinn to London!
>                   ^^^^^^^
>You can't even spell the name. How do you expect to rule it...?

Hey, you know, we are talking imperialism here. Since it is ours, we
get to decide how it is spelled!

(Besides, I think Nordkap is the proper Danish spelling. Don't quote me
on it, though.)

Greetings,
--Mike

PS: as always in this thread, :-), :-)
    even though I forget it from time to time :-(

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: fthp@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Glo"gg recipe?!?
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 02:53:20 GMT

Hey fellow Netters:

Does anybody out there have a good recipe for glo"gg? Now that Christmas is
close it would be nice to be able to have friends over for glo"gg and
aebleskiver/waffles in the true Scandinavian fashion. Also, has anybody seen
the special pan for making aebleskiver anywhere?
							Xmas Greetings!
From: pkokkone@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Pellervo Kokkonen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Keskustelua suomalaisten asemasta Ruotsissa
Date: 16 Nov 1992 23:06:55 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Nov16.181129.8957@nntp.hut.fi> jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:
>
>(just to note that Jarmo had some points in the article also.  it
>would be more fruitful to ignore the noise and concentrate on the signal)
>

	If you were just speaking about radio transmission, I could let
	this pass, but since human communication DOES NOT consist of
	NOISE and SIGNAL or of FORM and CONTENT for that matter, I
	will have to comment this.

	Anybody who has read something other than computer manuals
	knows that application of communication theory (sender -
	receiver - channel and that unfortunate noise) was a 
	passing phenomenon in the 70sa and a theory utterly unsuitable 
	to describe social realities.

	The "media is the message", or form, noise and other related
	stuff carry meaning as much as the supposed "signal". In 
	Jarmo's case his careless throwing around of serious words
	speaks more clearly than his arbitrary quoting of some
	articles to support his nationalist political position.


	Pellervo Kokkonen

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: linnan@silver-surfer.cs.hut.fi (Matti Linnanvuori)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Finnish? (WAS: Pakko
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, CS lab
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:22:34 GMT

In <TORKEL.92Nov22222250@bast.sics.se> torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:
y
>  Obviously it has never occurred to you to ask the people we are
>  talking about whether they are Finns. Try it and see how they react.

  They are Swedes by citizenship, of course, and loyal to Sweden.
  They speak a dialect that resembles the Finnish dialect spoken in
Northern Finland. Since 1809, their language hasn't followed the
evolution of the Finnish language, but adopted a lot of Swedish loan
words. Still, if the Tornedal dialect were spoken in Finland, it would
certainly be consider a dialect of Finnish.
  However, calling it a language seems to increase the cohesion of
their identity as Swedes and members of a minority group. It 
emphasizes that they are Swedes that speak a language peculiar to
Sweden, and not a language of a foreign country, Finland. It also
distinguishes them from recent Finnish immigrants.
From: walver@kielo.uta.fi (Ville V. Walveranta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: International Language Education (WAS: Pakkoruotsi...)
Date: 15 Nov 92 21:13:08 GMT
	<WALVER.92Nov14053713@kielo.uta.fi>
	<ksand-141192163542@wintermute.apple.com>
Reply-To: walver@uta.fi (Ville Walveranta)
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic
Organization: University of Tampere, Finland
In-reply-to: ksand@apple.com's message of 15 Nov 92 00:36:47 GMT


ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) wrote in soc.culture.nordic:

> I studied Finnish since age 9 till high school graduation. This even
> if my mother is Finnish, and I hardly spoke any Swedish until I started
> in school. I would easily belong to the group of people that got mad
> learning a language they don't have any use of (like in my case today),
> but you never know. My basic philosophy is that by learning foreign
> languages you stretch out your brain so you are better prepared to
> handle complex situations. So I would still oppose if Finns would
> complain about learning Hindu as mandatory in schools, and this is the
> reason I'm not impressed of the US School system, but this might
> hopefully change now as well.

        You are certainly right about the US School system. Not so much
        because of the languages; many children learn Spanish and/or
        French, however, the level of education in History, Biology and
        Geography are almost nonexistant. I always freak out when
        someone here does not have an idea about where some country
        (often Finland ;-) is located. Not to mention some very major
        historical incidents.

        And as far as I've understood the complaints about the language
        education in Finland, nobody's complaining about the education
        itself, just about obligatority of one particular language.
        Obligatority of language studies itself is fine.

        -- Willy
--

 ***********************************************************************
  ***   Ville V. Walveranta      Tel/Fax.....: (510) 420-0729       ***
   ***  96 Linda Ave., Apt. #5   From Finland: 990-1-510-420-0729  ***
    *** Oakland, CA  94611, USA  (FAXes automatically recognized) ***
   ***  GET MY PGP KEY FROM MY PLAN -> Email.: walver@kielo.uta.fi ***  
  ***        "Reality is subject to change without notice"          ***
 ***********************************************************************
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedofobia in Jarmo Ryyti
Date: 20 Nov 92 07:15:41 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Lekskola, G|teborg, G|taland

In article <1992Nov19.081028.4777@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>Antti Lahelma (mtf@saha.hut.fi) wrote:
>:  "Genocide" translates to finnish as "kansanmurha" (a murder of a nation).
>: Now, tell me, how many forest-finns (or any finns) were physically *murdered*
>: by the swedish government? Were there any death-camps? Any gas-chambers?
>
>Well there are no death camps in Amazonas either. In the old records one 
>can find systematical opression towards the Finns of Warmland, they
>burned valuable forests (kasekaminen)
> so they were punished,

  As a real live gen-u-ine decendant of Forest Finns have pointed out on this
newsgroup, the very reason for attracting (through tax exemptions) the
Finns to V{rmland was that their method of farming by *burning the forest*
was superior.

  And now you claim that they were punished for burning the forest?!

  "Du {r ju f|r fan trickfilmad" as we say in Sweden(*).

>Regards,

  I still dare you to post your comparisions of Sweden to the Nazis to
talk.politics.middle-east and soc.culture.jewish.

>Jarmo Ryyti

-bertil-
(*) Direct translation: "You have to be a special effect!",
    it means rougly: "You can't be real!"
--
"Ack! Phht!" - Bill the Prez
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kezerk@cc.tut.fi (M{k{r{inen Matti)
Subject: Re: Anti-foreign Attitudes in Scandinavia.....
Organization: Tampere University of Technology, Finland
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:01:46 GMT


From article <By3qv9.F8w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, by bhamis@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Satya Bhamidipati):
> 
>  I am curious to hear about anti-foreign attitudes in Scandinavia, 
>  especially in Finland. Does it exist ? If it does, under what 
>  circumstances and how ? I know there is a lot of resentment against 
>  foreigners in central Europe (especially Germany). The reason I am 
>  asking is, I plan to move there there for sometime (few years). 

 It depends....   foreigners aren't generally looked at with much appreciation
Finns have among time learned not to trust outsiders,  first Swedes used us
then Russians tried to supress us, after getting independent USSR tried to
invade us, and Germans burned a large town in Lappland.
  
  Skincolor pretty much affects also how you are treated..

  but, Most Finns look to USA up.. everything that comes from States is 
marvelous, magnificient etc.. (that is most.. not all). (it may also
depend on where the Finn is from.. I'm from Sein{joki (the most american
town of Finland, the most American country of Europe).

 so, it pretty much depends on how you 'behave'... and how you adapt to
Finnish ways.  We are silent, but when we open in front of a foreigner 
we really open. In general Finns are told to be quite friendly ppl (there
are exceptions to every rule of course).

    Hope this helped ye,

                Kez.
-- 
Matti M{k{r{inen       'Come sit down here beside me honey, let's have a
Insin||rinkatu 60 C 153 little heart to heart. Now look at me and tell me
33100 Tampere, Finland  darling, how badly do you want this part. Are you
+358-31-17 24 39        willing to sacrifice? Are you willing to be real nice?'
From: Espen J. Vestre <espen@coli.uni-sb.de>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: A question to Norway about Shetland Is.
Date: 23 Nov 1992 09:56:15 GMT
Organization: Computerlinguistik, Universitaet des Saarlandes
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mp-mac10.coli.uni-sb.de
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-XXMessage-ID: <A7366A90D3024453@mp-mac10.coli.uni-sb.de>
X-XXDate: Mon, 23 Nov 92 10:01:36 GMT

In article <kjell-201192155216@g0-mac2.ekti.chalmers.se> Kjell Siimon,
kjell@emke.chalmers.se writes:
>Hello Norwegian brotherhod!
>
>Here's a subject about the Shetland Islands in the North Sea.
>Those islands have for the last 500 years been ruled by the Union Jack.
>But before that they have been owned by Norway for more than 700 years.
>There are people living on the islands today claiming that they either
want
>to be free, or ruled by Norway again.
>What do you think?
>Is there any opinion about this in Norway?

Yes: A large portion of the Shetland population seems to be rather
uninformed about Norwegian Whiskey prices :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Espen J. Vestre,                          espen@coli.uni-sb.de
Universitaet des Saarlandes,        
Computerlinguistik, Gebaeude 17.2 
Im Stadtwald,                          tel. +49 (681) 302 4501
D-6600 SAARBRUECKEN, Germany           fax. +49 (681) 302 4351
--------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: osstlm@eua.ericsson.se (Tomas Lundstrom)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Finnish? (WAS: Pakko
Reply-To: osstlm@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:46:25 GMT

In article 3662@jyu.fi, ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
> Bertil Jonell (d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se) wrote:
> : In article <WALVER.92Nov13084010@kielo.uta.fi> walver@uta.fi (Ville Walveranta) writes:
> : >) Why not? I've seen number of threads here in soc.culture.nordic
> : >) in Swedish about Swedish matters
> : >d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes in soc.culture.nordic:
> : >> Complain to the author of most of them then: J*rmo Ryyti
> : >        Most of what?
> : 
> :   Most of the recent threads in Swedish, have been started, in Swedish, by
> : J*rmo Ryyti.
> : 
> : >	I think it's all right to have the message threads
> : >        in Swedish in soc.culture.nordic, but so should it be all right
> : >        to have the threads in Finnish as well.
> : 
> :   Sure, but note that I've responded in English to the posts in Swedish, just
> : because a large part of the readership here don't speak Swedish.
> 
> Yeah, I have started using recently swedish in this group and I am called
> a swedefobe
> My opinion is that in soc. culture . nordic nordic languages should be
> used. It is not my responsibility or shame if people do not know foreign
> languages for instance in the States..

So, if they want to learn about Nordic culture, they have to learn a Nordic
language first ?  You are not very generous.

>  I use to follow sometimes french, german and russian group and
> in those groups french, german and russian is widely used. Nordic group
> should use swedish, norwegian, finnish, danish,icelandic, saami etc.
> and those who cannot understand should blame themselves  and start learning
> languages.

If an American learns icelandic doesn't make him understand Finnish ..

> I just wonder if someone is interested in Nordic culture but do not
> want to know the languages spoken in the Nordic countries. And I just like

I think there are a few people on this planet who are interested in cultures
whose language they don't master.

> to point out to our american friends that finnish is after swedish most
> spoken language in the Nordic countries.
> The Nordic netters should rise their profile a little in this sence I think.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> jarmo
> 

Can you tell us what your motives are for doing all these postings ?

Just a zeal for The Truth ?  Swedish apologies ? All Swedes to the gallows ?

just wondering ...


/Tomas L


Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: The Finns of Sweden
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 05:49:33 GMT

Staffan Axelsson (etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se) wrote:
: Kent Sandvik writes:
: >In article <1992Nov17.151437.13857@ericsson.se>, etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se
: >(Staffan Axelsson) wrote:
: 
:  I would still like to know if Mr. Ryyti could address this issue.
:  Does he maintain his view that it was a complete genocide (=folkmord)
:  and if so, how does he explain my existence??

Would you like to enlighten me which kind institutions the State of Sweden
organized for this minority during centuries,
for instance in the field of Finnish speaking
education? Some examples only, you need not explain all. Are there for instance
still remnants of Finnish schools in W{rmland? Can you point out places?

You also may explain why forest-burning was banned in W{rmland on Finnish
areas and what followed when the Finns did not obey. You may know if
you are an expert on the issue.

Thank you for the enlightment and waiting,
Jarmo
En Finndj{vel

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: e91petmo@odalix.ida.liu.se (Peter /\/\odin)
Subject: Re: Stockholmers rule! (Was: More Danes...)
Organization: CIS Dept, Univ of Linkoping, Sweden
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:08:56 GMT

euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik stman) writes:
>Subject says it all.
...about your EGO...

--
=================================================================
 Peter Modin /// EMail: e91petmo@und.ida.liu.se       
 Dept. of of Computer Science, Linkoping University, Sweden  
      /// "Wait- suppose TWO swallows were carryin' it together?"
     ///  -------------------------------------------------------
\\\ ///   None of the above views are mine; they are stolen from
 \\X//    somebody else.
=================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,alt.sources.wanted,alt.swedish.chef.bork.bork.bork
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Subject: Re: English text to Swedish accented English text program wanted
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 12:58:16 GMT

mortenk@dhhalden.no (MORTEN KNUDSEN) writes:
|>
|> I get a 'Unknown symbol: _yywrap' when compiling with 'cc -ll -o'. Anybody 
|> know why?
--


Did you store the two programs into two separate files (swedish0 and
swedish) ?

Remember to use the same procedure on both files :

	% lex swedish
	% cc -o Bork lex.yy.c -ll

	and

	% lex swedish0
	% cc -o Bork0 lex.yy.c -ll

In this way you'll get two versions, Bork0 and Bork, which produce
different translations.

I've done it - translated a report with Bork, corrected the changes
Bork did to some of the LATEX commands, printed it, and asked one of my
collegues to read through and correct the report before I sent it. The
reaction was rather amusing.


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: Thomas Bjorkman <Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: President Clinton!
X-Xxdate: Mon, 23 Nov 92 14: 00:51 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: tnb1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:56:45 GMT

>In article <LHE.92Nov9204435@yang.sics.se>, lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik
Eriksson) writes:
>
>>since it was done outside the US it was not illegal according to US
>>law, since US law does not apply outside the US!

The Reagan/Bush administration has extended the reach of US law well
beyond the borders.  Manuel Noriega is an obvious example of being
arrested for breaking US law while outside the US.  The basis seems that
this administation has little patience for those pesky countries that do
not want to play along (does that insinuation justify s.c.n posting?)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall)
Subject: Re: M.A. Numminen (was: Assimilation of the Finns in Northern-Sweden)
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 08:16:49 GMT

me...

>>Speaking of his Wittgenstein stuff: one of the tracks, "Wovon Mann Nicht
>>Sprechen Kann" - also included on the compilation - was apparently recorded
>>live at Turku University.

tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson)...

>Not that I've heard what you're discussing, but wouldn't this be a very 
>illogical recording? I mean - good ol' Ludwig wrote "Wovon Mann Nicht 
>Sprechen Kann - DARUeBER MUSS MANN ZWEIGEN!"

Well, that quote of yours (uh...Ludwig's, actually) - repeated over and over -
is in fact the entire set of lyrics for the song mentioned. So M.A. is not
dealing with the things one cannot speak of, but rather with the fact that
such things do exist. I hope this clears things up. Btw, M.A. is not speaking
(sprechen) on the song, but *singing*, so your assertion would not have held
anyway.

>But my favouriote Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus quotation is:

>	Dass die Sonne morgen aufgeht ist eine Hypothese,
>	und dass bedeutet dass wir NICHT WISSEN ob sie morgen aufgeht

>I'm bloody mightily relieved each day the sun rises - must be difficult 
>to live north of the polar circle (in Uppsala and places like that (-: ).

Most folks live north of the Antarctic circle. You too!

-- 
Anders Engwall				Email: Anders.Engwall@eua.ericsson.se
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB			Voice: +46 8 727 3893
lvsj, Sweden				Fax: +46 8 727 42 20
	"Frnsett att det inte fungerar, hur tycker ni att det verkar?"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Tasa-arvopuheet ovat osoittautuneet korulauseiksi
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<1992Nov23.101301.6895@sai.vtt.fi> <By6qIC.H7E@news.chalmers.se>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:41:41 GMT

In article <By6qIC.H7E@news.chalmers.se> d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se 
(Bertil Jonell) writes:

   >I find it very telling that after that Jarmo have gone on and on for two 
   >weeks, you suddenly jump on me when I start talking about that Jarmo should
   >take responsibility for what he writes.

  Nonsense. What Kimmo is saying is that your crossposting Jarmo
Ryyti's article will lead to this group being swamped with massive
pointless flames, and that he will make you pay for causing this
calamity.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic