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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:19:58 -0600
From:         jim coen <coen@ACC.WUACC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Tithing

>I say, do you want gross blessings or net blessings, refering to Malachi 3:8...
>
>If all Christians would tithe, the church would have so much money, there
>would be little excuse for missionaries having to come back home because of
>lack of financial support, or a soup kitchen closing down for the same reason.
>Tithing is easy once you get into the habit of doing so.  The real church needs
>the money, not the big televangelist or health wealth guys.  Support your
>local church before you support someone elses.  Am I going off on a tangent or
>what?
>
>John
> <><
>

Amen, brother.
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:08:00 CST
From:         MB09@SWTEXAS.BITNET
Subject: Re: Mormon/LDS

Good Morning Everyone!

I thank each and every one of you who have sent me posts privately and who
have posted to the list regarding the Mormon church.  I see that I have my
work cut out for me in getting my questions together for my friend.  I
mentioned to him that I asked for help from CHRISTIA and he said he would
gladly discuss anything about the church with me.  He also gave me the
_Book of Mormon_, _Pearl of Great Price_, and _Doctrine and Convenants_
so that I can do some research of my own.  What I am afraid of is that,
like some of you mentioned, he doesn't know everything about the church yet
(He told me he doesn't, which really made me wonder why he would join a
church that he doesn't know EVERYTHING about.  He rushed into his decision so
quickly that I was leary that he was brainwashed or something similar.) and
that he is going to find out some really scary stuff later on.

Are there any Mormons out there on CHRISTIA.  If so, I would be curious to
hear your defense to what has been posted so far.

Thanks again!

May Christ's Peace and Love be with you,

Michelle
      _|_
       |
"With God all things are  possible."  Matthew 19:26
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:44:32 EST
From:         Dan Harling <harling@ROADRUNNER.PICTEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Countries Turning to God

> Date: 21 Jan 1993 22:13:05 -0600 (CST)
> From: "Scott D. Weberg" <sweberg@GARFIELD.WES.ARMY.MIL>
> Subject: Re: Countries Turning to God
> To: Multiple recipients of list CHRISTIA <CHRISTIA@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>
>
> Dr. Nancy's Sweetie (sometimes known as Darren F. Provine) makes an
> interesting point: people with liberal (by this I assume he means
> non-Christian) ideas and liberal moral beliefs must be a majority of
> the population.  This is why the news media and educations systems
> are becoming more liberal.  "Government and media follow the people",
> and if the majority of people in society were really conservatives,
> they would be able to change education politics (by voting the
> liberals out) and change the media (put them out of business by not
> watching the liberal news).
>
[Cited examples deleted]
>
> Therefore, I think that Hollywood, the media, and in many cases (not
> all) the Government itself is NOT an accurate reflection of the
> attitudes and values of the American people.  What is really scary is
> that Hollywood, the media, and Government make up 90% of the "voice"
> in America -- that gives a lot of power to inaccurate representation!

It may be true that people elect governmental officials who reflect
their own political values, but it is probably *not* true that people
choose their entertainers on the same basis.  It is quite possible for
someone to buy an album or rent a movie by Barbara Streisand, and be
politically conservative.  Likewise, we choose a news program based on
more than just the political values of the newscasters, unless the
editorials have such a bias as to be annoying.  Indeed, my parents
watch the news program they do merely because it is on earlier than the
networks', even though one of the newscasters has a liberal bias that
becomes quite obvious at times.

Therefore, as far as the entertainment industry and the media are
concerned, the political views of those within do not necessarily have
*any* bearing on those of the nation in general, even though it becomes
quite blatant at times.
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                   PictureTel Corp. (so there!)
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Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 13:22:49 WST
From:         David Straface <xavier@PF.ADIED.OZ.AU>
Subject:      Please get me off!

I am desparate!  I have tried unsuccessfully to remove myself from the
subscription list.  Every attempt has been met with an error (I don't know
how I was able to subscribe so easily).  I cannot handle the volune of mail.
Will somebody please cancel my subscription.

David Straface
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:28:25 -0500
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Feeling old (was Re: Segregated churches)

On Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:08:20 -0500 jones, mark said:
>Now thats old, Maks (just kidding!)
>                                               Now Maks, you may well
>be the grandaddy of us all.....I best hush! Some good fun.....Mark

Now, lookie here, sonny. I'm only 41. :-

I've got a son in Arizona, who I did find out was not married yet, and
was wondering if I was going to be a granddad. That was scarry. But he
called, he's fine, and he's not married yet. Spent a year in prison, but
that's another story. :-(   He can use all the prayer he can get.

Maks.
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:53:23 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Amy Carmichael

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: msdrl!msdrl.com!kdh1@uunet.UU.NET (Kimberly Harvey)
>Subject: Amy Carmichael
>Organization: Merck Research Laboratories
>Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 18:49:33 GMT

Hi everyone!  I'm new to the list and thought I'd start off with a
question...
Is anyone familiar with the written works of Amy Carmichael?  I just finished
reading _A Chance to Die_ by Elisabeth Eliot (INCREDIBLE book, INCREDIBLE
life!  I highly recommend) and in it there are many excerpts of Amy's
writings.
I'm in love with her poetry and was wondering if anyone knows which of her
books contains some..  Thanks!

Kim
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:23:56 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         MICHELE LOFTON <MLOFTON@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      re: Rush Limbaugh

Mike,

I wish I can help, but I can't of anyone.  All of the conservatives'
attention seems to be going to these two people.  I applaud you for not
settling on second best and encourage you to keep looking for someone
who can let the conservatives' points speak for themselves without
harrasing or insulting others' who disagree.

Michele Lofton <MLOFTON@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:20:25 EST
From:         Dan Harling <harling@ROADRUNNER.PICTEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Marinava

> Date: 27 Jan 1993 10:45:00 -0600 (CST)
> From: MB09%SWTEXAS.BITNET@asu.edu
> Subject: Marinava
> To: Multiple recipients of list CHRISTIA <CHRISTIA@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>
>
> Do any of you know what the word Marinava means?  While visiting my parents
> in Idaho in December, the musicians kept singing this in a song.  I was
> curious as to what it means.  I also saw the word as the name of a Christian
> school up there.  I am not sure of the spelling, but it sounds like I
> spelled it.

How about "maranatha"?  I'll leave the definition to somebody else,
mainly because I'm not sure myself.
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                   PictureTel Corp. (so there!)
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:00:50 MST
From:         Dave Weinstein <dweinste%server@CARL.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Don't mention the Lord
              93 8:40 pm

#Albuquerque, New Mexico - Christine, a 16 year old girl who rides the
#   school bus, was talking recently to her schoolmates about the Lord.
#   Her bus driver warned her that she was not allowed to discuss religion
#   or politics on the bus. When she continued to share her faith, her
#   Vice Principal warned her that "Talking about the Lord was ENDANGERING
#   THE LIVES of the other students on the bus."
#     The ACLJ has been alerted.

I'd have to say this depends on what she is doing. If she is discussing,
fine. If she is taking advantage of the fact that the other students
are confined in the bus to "witness" at them against their will, not so
fine.

The state requires that all students attend an acceptable school. Moreover,
another student doing anything (whether this be insults, harassment, or
"forced witnessing") which takes advantage of the forced schooling or
the transportation to or from school is *wrong*.

--Dave

Disclaimer: Not my employers opinion and all that necessary rubbish.

--
Dave Weinstein
dweinste@carl.org
CARL Systems, Inc. - Systems that Inform
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:23:42 EST
From:         Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Role of the Law.
              <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>

Dan,

One of the comments which you make about the Law is, "it was not
something to set Israel apart."  I would commend to your attention
the following passage:

 "And now, O Israel, give heed to the statutes and the ordinances
  which I teach you, and do them; that you may live, and go in and
  take possession of the land which the LORD, the God of your fathers,
  gives you. You shall not add to the word which I command you,
  nor take from it; that you may keep the commandments of the LORD
  your God which I command you. Your eyes have seen what the
  LORD did at Ba'al-pe'or; for the LORD your God destroyed from
  among you all the men who followed the Ba'al of Pe'or; but you who
  held fast to the LORD your God are all alive this day. Behold, I
  have taught you statutes and ordinances, as the LORD my God
  commanded me, that you should do them in the land which you are
  entering to take possession of it. Keep them and do them; for that
  will be your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the
  peoples, who, when they hear all these statutes, will say, `Surely
  this great nation is a wise and understanding people.' For what
  great nation is there that has a god so near to it as the LORD our
  God is to us, whenever we call upon him? And what great nation is
  there, that has statutes and ordinances so righteous as all this
  law which I set before you this day?
            -- Deuteronomy 4:1-8

Possibly you have a different understanding of this passage than I
do, but Moses seems to be teaching Israel that their possession of
the Law really does set them apart from the rest of the nations.
While Paul certainly does teach that there is no salvation to be
found in observing the Law, I think that there is a real way in
which observing the Law sanctified Israel(in the sense of showing
them to be a nation set apart by and for God), and that is what
the passage quoted above seems to be dealing with.

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:55:44 EST
From:         Dan Harling <harling@ROADRUNNER.PICTEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Tithing

> Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:38:51 -0500
> From: "jones, mark" <JMJONES%UGA.BITNET@asu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Tithing
> To: Multiple recipients of list CHRISTIA <CHRISTIA@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>
>
> ... Just think what would
> happen if even half the Christians in America, the most materialistic nation
> on the face of the earth would start sowing into God's kingdom. I mean just
> be open to the Holy Spirit and follow his lead on how much, 10% or more, gross
> or net, et.al. We would truly shake the gates of Hell! Some thoughts...Mark

On the other hand, we must avoid judging our success by our churches'
monetary income and financial status.  With that much money coming in
and (hopefully) going out, how much greater would the temptation be?
Sometimes I think God keeps us from being *too* successful for a
reason...

However, there is no reason that Christians cannot give their money
directly to people who need it, rather than putting it all under the
church's discretion.  In fact, this would provide far fewer
opportunities for corruption than if it were all thrown into one big
fund.
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                   PictureTel Corp. (so there!)
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:57:30 -0500
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Tithing

I'm reminded of the time I was supporting my family, a mother and 2-3
boys (can't remember if it was before or after she had her child, which
I was birth partner) and the church guitar players.

Things were tight, the church covered the food, but the money was real
tight. I knew God would provide, but I was getting concerned. One of
our members came up to me and said "The Lord told me to give you this."
She handed me $150.00! I started thinking of how I could bless those
living with me, and she said "God also told me to spend it on yourselves."
I can't remember what all we did with the money. I believe I took Linda
I took Linda out to eat, maybe the whole family, but I do remember it
was the first time we had eaten out in over a year. Unexpected blessing.

I also believe tithing is up to the individual. You REALLY need to seek
God on it. I don't give a full 10%, not even of the net, and it bugged
me. I kept crying to God to give me more money so I could tithe. Then
one day as I was looking over our bills, I was sort of led through this
scenario. "Michael, How much do you spend to train your girls? $2600.
How often do you do the sound in my church? About 51 Sundays a year.
How much did you give to special projects in the church? All I had at
the time..." I added it all up and it came very close under or over
what my tithe was. I can't remember.

Now this is just for me. You'll have to ask God. When I had it, for
several years of living good, I tithed a FULL 10% on my GROSS. At that
time it was right for me and I constantly had stuff for the special
things needed at the church. Then things got tough.

There is also a scripture that says the man who does not provide for
his family is worse than an infidel. I think b-stard is used in one
of the translations. So, I simply cut back, then felt guilty, and
God reminded me of the things I had done. I was tithing my life,
most of my money, supporting 2 other families. God was pleased, with
that anyhow. He's still working on me on other things. :-)

Maks.
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 11:29:00 +0000
From:         CAROL L <Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK>
Subject:      RE: miracles or miracle whip?

From:     zane of dhahran <FACN34B@EARN.SAUPM00>
> Why the curiosity about miracles?  Are you looking for one to happen?

Trying to pin down exactly what I believe rather than what I think and
looking for ques to throw into the discussion group at our church.

I am not looking for one to happen.  I am however seeing small ones now
and then.

> The scientific mind will want a clear definition of what you mean by
> a miracle.

I was actually interested in other people's empirical measure of what is
or is not a "miracle".

> I ... came from a people that think miracles are relatively normal anyway.
> I think most people believe in miracles until they are taught not to.

I think you may be right.

Thanks Zane.

Carol A Long,  Southampton Institute of Higher Education, England
        email     :  Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
DISCLAIMER - merely musings unless otherwise stated.
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 13:12:11 -0600
From:         jim coen <coen@ACC.WUACC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gays in the Military?

>Date: 28 Jan 1993 10:26:57 -0800 (PST)
>From: "LCDR Andrew W. Melton, USN" <6243P%NAVPGS.BITNET@asu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Gays in the Military?
>
>
>In reply to Yvette's question, the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)
> lists sodomy and other homsexual acts as one of those things that are prohibit
>ed in the military. At present, it is a court-martial offense and usually resul
>ts in discharge. Until yesterday, everyone who entered the military signed a
>statement that they were not homosexual and made an oath that their statements
>were true. John's point is exactly correct in that homosexuality is biblically
>sinful and it distresses me that our country would take this next step to
>legitimize such behavior.
>

Amen to that! When a nation "legitimizes" and condones such behavior, that
nation is headed for judgement. The Bible says, "Do no be deceived. God is
not mocked. Whatever a man sows, that will he also reap." If we sow seeds
of corruption, we will reap a harvest of destruction. The leaders of this
country had best think long and hard before doing what they are thinking
about doing.

God bless.

Jim Coen
coen @acc.wuacc.edu
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Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 08:39:59 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: A poll on praying.

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>Date: 22 Jan 1993 21:14:45 -0400 (EDT)
>From: JKG100G@ODUVM.BITNET
>Subject: Re: A poll on praying.

Fill in:

   ( ) I pray God only once for something and trust that He knows my needs
       best.

   (X) I pray God often for the same thing and believe, that He expects me
       to pray for the things, although He knows what I need.

   ( ) None of the above. What: ___________________________________________


   On what Bible reference do you base this belief?
"Pray without ceasing."
"In everything pray, praise, and give thanks."

   Thank you, Petri, for your poll.  I find that, as I pray for or
about something, God uses those occasions to remind me of ways in which
I need to grow or actions I need to take.

   Yours in Christ,
                          James
                          James K. Gruetzner (jkg100g@oduvm.cc.odu.edu)
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:01:03 -0700
From:         "Glenn Radinsky S05152@doc.flc.colorado.edu"
              <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Prayer

Dear all:

     Recently Petri writes:

> I have a (christian?) friend, who thinks, that it is
> enough, if we only pray once about something and then
> forget it. He says, that God knows our needs and will
> respond accordingly. On the other hand, I feel that we
> should really be patient and pray day after day something.
> I don't think that God wants it so, that we send a wish to
> Him and then forget it.

> But anyway, how do you feel about this? I wish to do a
> little poll. So, please answer me via e-mail, and I will
do > a summary, if there are enough answers.

     I am not sure about whether or not there is a hard and
fast rule on prayer.  There are several verses which seems
to suggest that one should pray to the Lord as often as the
feel like (Pray without ceasing).  The rule that I follow is
that is something leapt into my head (both good and bad
things), I usually let God know about it.  I have been
really ashamed of the thoughts that sometimes jump in there,
but I feel that confessing these thoughts, no matter how
ugly, is a safer course than trying to hide them or trying
to keep them bottled up inside so they can eat away at me.
I figure our relationship is big enough to handle these
feelings and that I had better make them known to the Lord.
I think the bottom line on this one is that you are going to
find as many rules on praying as there are Christians.  I do
not think there is a hard and fast answer.

                         God Bless,



                            Glenn
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:53:00 +0000
From:         ga921008@MCIS.MESSIAH.EDU
Subject:      Movies & Ratings

About Tipper Gore,

Has anyone else noticed that when she was active with the PMRC, she
was the darling of the conservative Xians for trying to label music,
but now... her husband is a New Age earth-worshipper (who just happens
to hold an earned degree in Christian theology) and Tipper herself is never
mentioned?  Selective reporting, ?no?

--Greg Aist
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