HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: Auschvitz and $$$ & The Ontario Press Council
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 00:38:15 GMT

saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>In article <87231@netnews.upenn.edu> kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
>(Krzysztof W. Kniaz) writes:

>>In article <1992Aug27.120314.9728@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>>>Using typical revisionist tactics, you took this out of context.  All I
>>>said was that had there been no Poles helping the Nazis far fewer Polish
>>>Jews would have been murdered.  Compare the percentage Jewish population
>>>in Poland and in Denmark and "far" becomes very conservative.

>>My dear Samuel, why do you have to label me as a "revisionist"?, and why
>>do you think I use any "tactics"?

>Because you took one sentence out of context, ignored the point, and
>brought up unrelated issues, instead.

>>                                  I was simply asking about sources, literature
>>ect.. for your statement. Now I don't understand this comparison between
>>Poland and Denmark. Whould you elaborate on that?

>Compare the percentage of Denmark's Jews saved to that of Poland.  In
>Denmark nearly 100% were saved by sneaking them out of Denmark in
>fishing boats, hiding those they couldn't get out, and even discharging
>then reregistering Jewish hospital patients as nonJews.  The Polish
>record, even taking into account the Poles that did help the Jews was
>nowhere near that.

>>BTW, you did not answer my question about the only survived commander
>>of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.

>I don't have his name handy.  You can look it up as easily as I can.  Will
>you?  I have my doubts as it would mean reading the history of the
>uprising and seeing just how antisemitic the Polish underground was.
>-- 
>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
>		Note new machine name
>	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton

I think there wasn't anywhere safe for the Jews to go from Poland *on a
fishing boat*, or by any other means for that matter.

Also, it is much easier to save 0.2% of the population of a country by
hiding them, than it is to save 10%. Don't you think so?


MB
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:05:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.171215.13718@src.umd.edu> josip@src.umd.edu
(Josip Loncaric) writes:

>In article <66791@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU
>(BERNSTEIN,AVRON P) writes:

>>....  What many people
>>seem to either ignore or be simply ignorant about is just how many Poles were
>>exterminated by the Nazis as well.  

>  On August 22, 1939, [Adolf Hitler] allegedly announced to his generals:

quote describing Genghis Kahn's legacy , deleted.

>This threat had eventually caused an enormous death toll among Poles,
>which simply cannot be ignored in any historical analysis.

What I find most amazing about this sort of Polish apologetic is that
it makes the Poles look worse than had they just admited that the Jews
were the Nazis' target.  By saying Poles were the intended victim, they
portray themselves as evil+stupid because of their collaboration in the
Nazi's antisemitism while they themselves were allegedly getting
victimized. In an ironic sort of way, it makes their victimization
appear as a divine punishment.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Chaim R. Dworkin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Access to Israel line or other news
Date: 30 Aug 92 02:17:21 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <9208262204.AA26160@nysernet.ORG> <Shelomoh_Slawomir_ZIENIUK <SHELOMOH@PLEARN.PL.BITNET>> writes:
>ShLWM/ WBRKhH DNYXL| (Thunders'n'lightnings across my window just now).
>
>In order to SUBscribe to IsraeLine .... try to send the following
>
>SUB ISRAELINE Daniel_ZMOOD
>SUB ISRAEL-MIDEAST Daniel_ZMOOD
>
>The E-Mail add for either is LISTSERV@israel.nysernet.org
>

While this is technically correct, there is no need to include underscores
between your first name and last name.  In fact we would prefer if you 
simply write your name as you normally do.


SUB israeline Daniel Zmood
SUB israel-mideast Daniel Zmod

Thanks.
Chaim Dworkin, North American Coordinator, israel.nysernet.org




Chaim R. Dworkin
chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shdan@tudorct.com (Dan Shimoff)
Subject: Mazel Tov
Organization: Tudor Investment Corporation, CT
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:39:45 GMT

A Mazel Tov is in order to Eliot Shimoff (shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu), as
he is a grandfather again.  Unnamed girl baby was born today, 8/25
sometime after 1pm in Baltimore to Wendy (Penina) and Yehoshua (Josh)
Dixler.

Proud uncle is Dan Shimoff, but defers all MTs to his father.

Mom and baby are fine and grandpa may be busy for the next few days.

Yippee, Yipee, Yippee.
-- 
Dan Shimoff           
Phone: (212) 602-6798  
Address: shdan@tudor.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Egg Creams
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:54:19 GMT

In article <l9ndjsINNo4v@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>
janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM writes:

>In article 23500@speedy.aero.org, nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam
>Nadel) writes:

>(Glad I managed to start a thread that avoids any possibility of O-C-R 
>debates.  I think we needed the break!)

I thought an ice cream soda was a Reform egg cream.

Joke, folks, joke.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: alu@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (Alan Lustiger)
Subject: Re: Source for Midrash in Electronic Form?
Organization: AT&T Engineering Research Center
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:57:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.172913.24386@cs.ubc.ca> davef@cs.ubc.ca (David Finkelstein) writes:
>One of the projects I was involved in while I was working for Stanford
>was their on-line text service.  One of the professors in the
>Religious Studies department would like put the Midrash into
>electronic form for searching and retrieval.  
>
>Scanning the ten volumes they have into electronic form is a rather
>monumental task.  Does anyone know of a source from whom they could
>purchase a version already on tape?  (Of course, they wouldn't mind
>one that was free :-) 

The Bar-Ilan Global Jewish Database is available on CD-ROM.
The price for institutions is $998 for Tanach, Bavli with Rashi,
Yerushalmi, Midrash (though I don't know how complete) and Rambam.
(The price for private individuals is $499.)

A more extensive CD-ROM, with everything mentioned above sans
Yerushalmi but an additional 253 volumes of responsa, costs 
$1299 for individuals and $2598 for institutions.

This software runs under Windows 3.x and a Mac version is
coming. It is available from Bar Ilan and it is also being
marketed in the US by Kabbalah Software.

Kabbalah Software may be reached at (908) 572-0891 or at
kabbalah@israel.nysernet.org. 

Disclaimer: my wife owns Kabbalah Software.
>
>As a more general question, is there an institution or university
>which is compiling an archive of traditional Jewish sources in
>electronic form?

Again, Bar-Ilan, but it's not free. A version of an electronic Tanach
is available via ftp from israel.nysernet.org.
>
>--- Dave


-- 
               		Alan Lustiger
    |_ | |             	AT&T Bell Laboratories ERC, Princeton, NJ
     /   |( 		attmail!alustiger or att!pruxk!alu or lustiger@att.com
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:56:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Sep2.165613.18689
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <87711@netnews.upenn.edu> kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
(Krzysztof W. Kniaz) writes:

>In article <1992Sep2.130130.7212@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>>Our Polish net.friends would have us believe that antiSemitism was
>>government sponsored when Polish territory was controlled by Germany,
>>Austria, or Russia.  When it was controlled by a Polish government they
>>would have us believe antiSemitism was caused by rogue elements or
>>opposition political parties.

>>How convenient.

>>Revisionism or denial of responsibility?

>If you don't see the difference between Polish and Russian (Tzarist) goverments
>towards Jews, you should perhaps take a good history course. 
>IMHO, Sam you are not different from some of my compatriots on the net (whom
>I am ashamed of). All of you distort the history, just a little bit, to satisfy
>your own wicked ego. YOu're unable to raise above your narrow point of view,
>moreover individuals like you, would always throw insults on peple seeking some
>common ground. You always have to have everyone labeled according to your
>beliefs and (mis)understanding. Finally, and this is typical, you are
>always eager to disregard facts not fitting to your perfect, false picture.

I am always amused at the personal insults people who can't address the
issues come up with, I am especially amused when they are targeted at me.
Concerned, no.  Amused, certainly.

I guess the "tactic" of insult is one I should have expected when
someone points out the inconsistencies I noted above.  I should
probably leave your post without responding,  After all, it provides
adequate corroboration for my points. but I think I'll address your
points, meager though they are.  I do know about the differences between
Polish and Russian governments.  The interesting thing, especially as
it relates to their treatment of Jews, is what they have/had in common.
Yes, I know it was early Polish governments that _invited_ Jews into
Poland when other countries were expelling them.  Interestingly, Russia
got most if its Jews when it captured areas of Eastern Europe,
including pieces of Poland.

I'm a little curious what you think my point of view on Poland is.  True,
it is not blindly, nauseatingly positive, as is that of several of the
Polish apologists on the net.  I think you will find the vast majority of
my posts willingly acknowledge that there were Poles that were neutral
about Jews (if not non-anti-Semeitc).  I do not paint all Poles with the
broad brush strokes you seem to use in your "wicked ego ... unable
to raise above your narrow point of view" contention.  Or is the fact that
I do acknowledge the existence of philosemitism in Poland part of the
wicked ego?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Arabs/leftists?
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:36:47 GMT

horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:

>Of course they're conservative -- and of course they're scared. I remember
>what happened in 1979, when Muslim fundamentalists overthrew the Shah of
>Iran; most Iranians in the US started displaying American flags in the
>windows of their stores, flew them in front of their homes, or put American
>flag bumper stickers on their cars.

Iranians are not Arabs.  Although, I suppose if Bush and his new
campaign manager determine that he has to do something drastic in
Iraq to assure his re-election bid, then the souther Iraqi Shi`ites
may wind up as Arab-Iranians.

-Don Gertler
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Alter Rebbe?
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:48:57 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu

In article <Bi76PB3w164w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>, murray.bbs@cybernet writes:
>I am not positive as to why he is called the Alter Rebbe, but the word 
>Alter means Elder or Old (my yiddish isn't the greatest either).  Since 
>he is the first Lubavitcher Rebbe, I guess why he earned that name. 
>I never thought to ask before, and I never saw a reason given.  [...]

>Rabbi DovBer He is known as the Mitteler Rebbe, because he is the 
>Rebbe between Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liadi and the Tzemach Tzedek, 
>(the 3rd Rebbe) thus he was "in the middle".

What's more mysterious is why his son became the "Mitteler Rebbe".  Yes,
he's in the middle, but so are a lot of others.  The story I was told is
that there was a specific expectation that Moshiach would come during
their third rebbe's leadership, and this rebbe would be known as the
"Yungeler Rebber", except that he's better known for his other name,
and it didn't work out as expected.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: amir@cc.gatech.edu (Amihood Amir)
Subject: Re: Yom Kippur and Tu b'Av
Organization: College of Computing
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:35:34 GMT

The Mishna tells us that there were no better days to Israel than
Yom HaKipurim and the 15 of Av, because then the daughters of Israel
went out to the vineyards, etc...

The vineyard dance was a ceremony. The general idea was to have many 
weddings originated on motsaei yom kippur and on Tu beAv. Why?

The best explanation I heard is the following:

There are three major legs that the Nation of Israel stands on:
      The People
      The Land
      The Torah

(As an aside, we can precariously survive on any two of the above, but
for a strong and healthy Nation, we need all three.)

The Torah was given on Shavuoth. We did not want it. 40 days later we
were all worshiping the idol.

The Meraglim (spies) came back on Tisha beAv, and on that day we
rejected the land.

Both were serious sins (although rejecting the land was punished much
more severely). But eventually we were forgiven for both.

On Yom Kippur, Moshe came down with the second set of Luchot
(tablets).

On Tu beAv, the sin of the spies was forgiven. How do we know that?
There is a midrash that says that every year on Tisha beAv people
would die. On the 40th year, no one died, although there were people
left who were supposed to die. The people figured that they must have
miscalculated the date. But no one died the next night, nor the next.
When they came to Tu beAv, they KNEW that they did not make a mistake
(the moon was full), and that they did not die because the sin of
rejecting the land was forgiven.

The Nation then decided that on the two days when we were forgiven for
rejecting the Land and the Torah, then we will strengthen THE PEOPLE.
Thus the reason for the great joy of these days, and the reason for
the many marriages.


--  Ami
					
					-Amihood Amir (amir@cc.gatech.edu)
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: 31 Aug 92 06:02:16 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <BttEr2.1oz@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.193506.29722@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>
>>The heresy is in believing that the 10 Commandments is all there is to
>>God's Word.  His word is all of the Torah, and denying that is grave
>>heresey, indeed.  Yes, the two tablets didn't have anything else on
>>them, and yes they were carries in the Ark of the Covenant.  But that
>>is NOT all of God's Words, and it is NOT all of His Law.  To believe
>>otherwise is wrong, and to teach othewise is heresey.
>
>Where did anyone say that they are all of God's word?  But the precise
>wording of Deuteronomy states that only they were given directly to the
>people, and that Moses received other commandments.  However, the Five
>Books have much besides commandments, and the accuracy of some of the
>contents has been questioned as possibly being the literal word of God.
>In addition, these state nothing about an Oral Law.  
>
>What others, and I, have claimed is that there is reasonable dispute over
>exactly what is God's Law, and that one must investigate what God meant,
>and what those who wrote it down thought God meant.

It's amazing how you can prove my point and yet claim to disagree.
You openly deny the supernatural origin of the Torah, and yet claim
that there is no heresey in this statement.  You've stated, right
here, that the 10 commandments are all there is of the Torah that
isn't open to being "reasonably disputed" into just another work of
literature. 

I think this thread has reached a very definite conclusion here, since
you've proved my point with your own statements.

Thank you for a fascinating discussion.
-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: 26 Aug 1992 00:16:58 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <BtJpDE.F01@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

>There is no place in the Torah, other than at most the statement of the
>Decalogue on Sinai, where it states it was literally given to the people. 
>There is no place in the Torah where it states that God Himself wrote the
>words, or even that He dictated them to scribes, again except for the two
>tablets of the Ten Commandments.  By Torah I mean written Torah.

How do you explain the numerous places where it says "vaydabber adonai el
moshe leimor"?  Or, for that matter, "v'zot hatorah asher sam moshe lifnei
b'nai yisrael *al pi adonai* b'yad moshe"?

					Richard Schultz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: pc@linus.mitre.org (Penny Chase)
Subject: Re: Egg Creams (was Re: Proof of the Decline and Fall)
Organization: Research Computer Facility, The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA
	<1992Aug25.154028.4953@umbc3.umbc.edu>
	<1992Aug25.204147.14832@cbnews.cb.att.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:41:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.204147.14832@cbnews.cb.att.com>
ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:

   >Even more significantly, egg creams cannot be made anywhere north of
   >Delancy St. in NYC, or south of Henry St.  It's a spiritual thing,
   >like "avira d'ar'ah" ("dirt in the air").  Any assertions about
   >"legitimate interpretations" or political correctness are pure hogwash.  

   I can't believe it.  Eliot disappears, then shows up just to insult
   all those folks in the Bronx and Brooklyn.

Well, I grew up in the Bronx and had wonderful Egg Creams.  I think
the trick was to go to your local candy store, which was run by a
couple who barely spoke English (they probably had moved from the
Lower East Side looking for the opportunity to live in their own
apartment and own their own store).  Homemade Egg Creams pale by
comparison (not frothy enough).

By the way, when I came up to Cambridge I discovered that Bailey's
(now gone) served a concoction called a "Chocolate Cream Soda."
It was clearly a poor imitation of an Egg Cream.  Besides, ice cream
parlors are for sundaes, banana splits, and the kitchen sink, not Egg
Creams.

	Penny

--
UUCP:  { ... }!linus!pc 
INTERNET:  pc@mitre.org
From: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Murder at Montreal's Concordia U
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:22:59 GMT
Reply-To: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Boston University

In article <1992Aug25.210810.5751@ccu.umanitoba.ca> feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld) writes:
>Two professors are dead, a secretary and two other professors are
>badly wounded, at the Engineering Faculty of Montreal's English
>language Concordia University.

>On the front page, _The Globe and Mail_, Canada's self-confessed
>"national" newspaper, announces that the arrested man is one  V.
>Fabrikant, whom they name a Russian Jew.

Documents ( more than a person can really read) are available on
sci.research.careers, actually they got there a day before
killings...

Simon
From: aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:41:43 GMT
Organization: KESHERnet International - Dallas, TX

In article <BtHo0M.3ws@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>
>The Torah also commands us to use our logical capabilities to understand
>the universe.  Modern statistics is concerned with this problem, and the



Where?



-- 
| Aaron D. Schmiedel            |  All my opinions represent what is right  |
| KESHERnet International       |  and true.  Just ask me....               |
| The Jewish Computer Network   |       <aaron@kesher.lonestar.org>         |
| Voice: (214) 239-1941         | ...uunet!convex!egsner!sdf!kesher!aaron   |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: klfirestein@OCTAVO
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Cheap Books: Update
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:44:52 GMT
Reply-To: klfirestein@OCTAVO

This is great of you....
Please send me the following...

Jews in America - the coffee table book... for 19.98 plus shipping, etc...

That's all for now....

My address is:

Ken Firestein
3314 Breton Ave.
Davis, CA 95616

I will send you the money as you wish... Let me know....
thanks
Ken Firestein
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: Nazi Camps
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 12:36:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.173209.25085@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu>, levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene) writes:
> In article <1992Sep3.170640.27211@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
> 
> [Concerning Hitler and Stalin]
> 
> > I have to agree with Pawel here.  Hitler wanted to kill all Jews.
> > Just because they were Jews, even Jews who had converted or if they
> > only had one Jewish parent or grandparent.
> >
> > Stalin probably resulted in many Jewish deaths, but I doubt that
> > as many, and not because they were Jews.
> 
> I thought the main difference between Stalin and Hitler concerning the
> Jews was that Stalin died just as he was ready to start *his* own
> Jewish genocide plan. 
> 
> Another difference is that Stalin already had years of experience at
> mass murdering people.  Discussing who was a worse human being strikes
> me as rather pointless.
> 

I agree, except I thought the discussion was on whether Stalin
was worse for the Jewish people.  The really bad things Stalin
actually did were more like closing the synagogues, sending
rabbis off to Siberia, taking the Torah scrolls and putting into
storage somewhere in Moscow, appointing government rabbis, etc.
You're right he never got around to the really disasterous
things that were contemplated (Birodjiban sp?).

The heavy Jewish casualties were not because they were Jewish,
and in many cases were due to the White-Red fighting after
the revolution.

(BTW, Rob, what ever happened to Howard HaM....?)

		Seth Rosenthal