From: dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Male Choice Revisited (was: Guilty...)
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:50:18 GMT
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA


ws>In article <1992Nov5.022319.3194@zooid.guild.org> Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org> writes:
DK>dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King) writes...
 
DK> I have strong beliefs about the feeling of men.  I am one.  However,
DK> I have difficulty in seeing a fair way to take into account their
DK> feelings when it comes to abortion legislation.  You can make things
DK> as fair as possible for the man, but he can not have any ultimate
DK> control over the woman's body.  That would be un-fair to the
DK> woman.  The best I can fight for is the woman's right to a physical
DK> abortion and the man's right to a legal abortion.
 
ws>Oh!  I misunderstood you - I didn't realise that you were also "Pro-Male-Choice"
ws>Mind you, I have found that there are *some* "Pro-Women's-Choice" who are also
ws>Pro-Male-Choice, but they seem to be a *very* small minority.
 
For some it depends on why they are pro-choice.  If you argue strickly 
from bodily autonomy, then there is not a consistency problem by not
fighting for Pro-Male choice.  If one were to argue fetal personhood,
then an argument could be made for pro-male-choice but a valid argument
could still be made opposing it.  Since part of the reason I am 
pro-choice is because I don't believe consent to coitus sex is 
consent to parenthood, and I do not believe it creates an obligation
to the fetus, I therefore, support gender neutral choice.

ws>Indeed, it seems as though the entire rest of the latter "pro-choice"
ws>contingent, when discussing male choice, suddenly discover "family values"
ws>and can spout out multidudes of reasons why "men should take responsibility
ws>for their families".
 
Just so we are clear here, I am not arguing against child support
legislation.  I believe once any adult has made a commitment to
care for a child, then we can hold them to certain standards in
that care.  One standard is some finacial assistance for that 
child.  If a father made the commitment to that family, then 
I agree he should take responsibility for their family.  I just 
as much support going after dead-beat dads as anyone, but I define 
dads as different than others might.  I believe there is much more 
to being a dad than supplying sperm.
 
ag>Many men have been raised to believe that there's a great deal of worth
ag>in that tiny human life inside the mother. And ignoring that; I think
ag>that's wrong.
 
DK> I don't believe I ignore it.  I just don't see any possible way to
DK> legislate it.

ws>I also find that it's rather difficult.  But I still say that *something*
ws>has to happen, although we disagree on some of what is meant by that
ws>"something".  Well...good that we agree on at least one thing, thank heavens.

I'm sure we could find any number of things we agree on.  I still
don't understand your push for spousal notification legislation.
Before pushing, or agreeing to legislation, I want to know what
is the problem it is trying to address, does the legislation 
fairly address the problem, and what is the cost of this legislation.
I see the cost of spousal notification being to high, for something
that is not going to come close to accomplishing your goals.  

ws>Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
 
Dan King
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,soc.women,talk.abortion,soc.men