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Posted-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 10:01:51 PDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.csg-l
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 10:01:51 PDT
From:         marken@AERO.ORG
Subject:      politics and PCT

[From Rick Marken (920822.1000)]

Why do I feel like Peter being patiently corrected (as usual)
by Jesus? I spew a little sarcastic spleen and my mentor gently
points out that I am tilting at categories -- just like the
targets of my tilt.

But my little tilt might have served a purpose, viz., re-starting a
dialog on (and, possibly, some exporation of) those "higher levels"
of control that we all know and love.

Bill Powers (920822.0800) says:

>One would think that this principle
>would lead to great tolerance of others and the realization that a
>belief is, after all, only a belief, not knowledge. Apparently,
>however, it leads in the opposite direction. The assumption is often
>that the way I was raised is the right way, and everyone else is
>misguided, perverted, ignorant, or evil.

Excellent point. Why, indeed, might this be the case -- from a PCT
perspective? How might one be able to help a person see this --
before he or she dispatchs you to allah, ships you to a concentration
camp, fires you from your job or votes for people who will push
laws that keep you out of the community?

>Politics is fertile ground for a control theorist. What's needed is a
>study in depth of many individuals who call themselves by some party
>label. What are they controlling for? What principles do they uphold,
>and what methods do these principles justify? What kinds of errors do
>they perceive in various social situations, and how do they see their
>proposed actions as correcting those errors? What do they think of as
>the good life? As being a good person? How do they think people work,
>with respect to rewards and punishments, self-interest, social
>interest, and so on?

Maybe we could get a volunteer "republican" from the audience?
I don't call myself by any party label but I would be willing
to by analyzed as a member of the PCT party -- indeed, I think
there are what would be called "politcal" implications of PCT;
maybe that's what I'm trying to get us to discuss -- the socio-
political implications of the PCT model of human nature.

>Once the real reasons for failure of our social systems
>were brought out, perhaps the way to a better solution to our problems
>would become more apparent. It isn't that social problems are so
>difficult. It's that our approach to them is confused and self-
>defeating.

Yes, the solution to our social problems are simple -- just like
the solution to our personal problems (internal conflicts). It's
just a slight change in the rate of firing of a reference neuron
or two. But, as people who are in conflict know (at least, symtom-
atically), that little change is very difficult to make when you
try to change it at the level of the conflict itself; control
systems are VERY tenacious.

Best regards

Rick


     **************************************************************

Richard S. Marken                   USMail: 10459 Holman Ave
The Aerospace Corporation                   Los Angeles, CA 90024
E-mail: marken@aero.org
(310) 336-6214 (day)
(310) 474-0313 (evening)
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