HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: FKD@psuvm.psu.edu (Derek Elsworth)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Stolen K-1 Extra
Date: 16 Aug 92 14:28:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92229.102808FKD
Organization: Penn State University

Here's a twist. A K-1 Extra was stolen...not from the top of my
car... not from the take-out while we were running shuttle...but
from my back garden in rural Boalsburg PA, as we slept, in the
early hours of Saturday 15th. Since the boat was in full view in
previous days but not on the night in question, I have to suspect
that it was premeditated rather than a spontaneous act. Anyway,
please let me know if someone tries to sell you this boat or if
you see it on the river. The night of the dissappearance (15th) is
the same night that many leases end in the State College/Penn State
area.....the boat may well be off to other parts of the country,
conveniently stashed in the back of a U-Haul.

The glass/kevlar boat was built by myself and other members of the
Penn State Outing Club and is quite distinctive [unique?]. Hence
my reason for distributing this on the net. The description of this is
as follows:

    Boat: Slalom K-1 EXTRA
    Deck: Silver sparkle on a white gel-coat
    Hull: UV yellowed original white
    Trim: Fire-engine red 3" seam tape; red codkpit trim; red seat

The most distinctive feature of the boat is the customized safety cockpit
that allows [allowed] me to lift my knees up while seated. I'm 6'1" and
the boat needs an extra long spray skirt. I have never seen a similar
cockpit on an Extra. By the way, an Extra looks similar to a Reflex
(4m glass Reflex, not the Perception plastic Reflex) but is flatter
above the knees.

Please let me know if you see this boat. I have a tire-iron with
the heister[s]' name[s] on it. The boat could be destined for anywhere in the
north-east US, or beyond. A license plate number would be useful.

Thanks in advance.
Derek Elsworth     (814) 466-6697      elsworth@hekla.psu.edu

Does anyone have similar anecdotes to share?????
From: tut@sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Whitewater footwear
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:54:16 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Mtn View, CA

There was a rather stupid article about this recently in Outdoor magazine.
They seemed to favor manufacturers who advertised in the magazine, rather
than those with good products.  For example, they liked Timberland sandals,
despite leather that wouldn't survive constant wetting, and flimsy velcro
that would come loose even in a class II swim.

Whitewater footwear must meet a variety of often contradictory goals: 

 o Sometimes it must be warm, sometimes it must be cool and dry fast.
   Neoprene booties meet the first goal, but are terrible in hot weather,
   especially for side hikes.  Soggy sneakers feel awful by end of day.
   Only Teva-style sandals with optional neoprene socks meet both goals.

 o Easy to put on and take off, but must be secure during a big "swim".
   Neoprene booties with side zippers are the best compromise, but the
   zipper can fail and cold water penetrates there.  If you can tuck in
   the rear velcro, toe-loop Tevas are more secure in a swim than Teva
   Universals, which have three velcro sections to come loose.

 o Good traction on wet rocks, good traction for climbing on side hikes.
   Felt soles are best on wet rocks, whereas tread patterns are best on
   side hikes.  A good compromise would be flat stealth rubber.  Sneakers
   or light hiking boots with wetsocks are a good choice.  Oddly enough,
   Tevas have better all-around traction after the tread wears down.

 o Stiffness and lateral support for hiking, flexibility for kayaking.
   Neoprene booties are terrible on long hikes, but great for footpegs.
   Toe-loop Tevas provide more lateral support than sandals that surround
   the foot, but 2-toe wetsocks are neither warm nor comfortable, plus
   toe loops are not adjustable.

The Teva 5.10 Approach seems to be the best product available, but costs
around $80.  Available either toe-loop or around-the-foot. It has buckles
instead of velcro, and stealth rubber soles, unfortunately with pattern.
Stealth rubber wears out fast.  Cheapskates can always have regular Tevas
resoled, and use safety pins on the velcro.

Some guides like Alp sandals, but I hate them.  They're very difficult
to put on, and every time I take a swim, the front strap comes off.  The
soles are very slippery on sand-covered dry rock.  They're much better
now that the tread has worn off :-) but the nylon straps are badly frayed
after only two seasons.

Sierra Hi-Trax sandals are worth looking at.  They have buckles instead
of velcro, appear to wear longer than any alternative, and cost much less.
I haven't tried them yet.  The soles are patterned rubber.  Several designs
are available, including toe-loop and diagonal strap models.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: andyh@microsoft.com (Andy Held)
Subject: Colorado Bashing (was: Is the Gauley Class V ?)
Date: 14 Aug 92 02:22:21 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <15290046@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> Andy Brown .sigs:

>andy "another transplanted eastener living in colorado because of the great
>      whitewater which is frozen half the year anyway" brown

Frozen 1/2 the year, dry 1/3, floooding 1/12, leaving you one month of
good boating. . . 

andy "another transplanted easterner, who passed thru colorado for three
years, and left!" held
Xref: sparky rec.boats.paddle:1427 austin.forsale:1678
From: horne@cs.utexas.edu (Patrick J. Horne)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle,austin.forsale,utcs.general,utcs.grad
Subject: Kayak For Sale
Followup-To: poster
Date: 15 Aug 1992 14:08:15 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: Perfection Dancer


     For Sale

	Perfection Dancer white water kayak

	> Nimbus Paddle
	> Spray Skirt
	> 4 Air Bags
	> Good Condition

	$700 Neg.

For further information Contact Pat Horne (512)837-0842
or horne@cs.utexas.edu.

-- 
---
I like boats and bicycles, they're healthier than Valium.
Pat Horne       CS Dept, Network Manager/Shop Supervisor/Hardware Guru
(512)471-9517   Univ of Texas, Austin TX 78712   UUCP:cs.utexas.edu!horne
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: schultz@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Dennis Schultz)
Subject: Annual Gore Race Aug.23
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 22 Aug 92 14:59:14 GMT

	Come one, come all, the annual Gore race is tommorrow Aug. 23.  Its
running a real nice 1300cfs and may even go up slightly if they increase
the flow from Green Mountain Reservoir.  Registration? I think its tommorrow
starting at about 9, but this is a very loosely run race.  I think the
actual race begins from the Kremmling gaging station at noon.  Only one
catch, the ONLY way to watch this race is to go in by water, unless you
want to walk several miles, illegally down the railroad tracks.  Don't
ask me anything else about it, I don't know, and in fact, no one does either.
(this is a totally non-sanctioned event)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: hweingra@.com (Howard Weingram)
Subject: Re: Kayaking vs. Rowing
Reply-To: hweingra@oracle.UUCP (Howard Weingram)
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, CA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:09:58 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Aug11.115724.412@geovision.gvc.com> pt@geovision.gvc.com writes:
>What I don't understand is why they never talked about record times in the
>rowing.
>
>Don't they recognize World and Olympic records in these sports, or do they
>have to be set in a totally artificial environment?
>
>Seemed like quite a difference between rowing and other sports, because in
>another sport if you were leading, you still went hard to try and break the
>record. Watching the rowing, it seemed as soon as they got a comfortable lead,
>they slacked off.

In the heats, reps and semifinals you can guess why they "cruised" at
the end. A rowing race is very draining, and they were trying to
conserve energy for the final, which was the IMPORTANT race. 

In any race, however, if you get a comfortable lead, it is important
to stay relaxed and long. There are lots of examples of crews that
spazzed in the last 500m and totally lost their "swing," and went from
a sizeable lead to a very disappointing loss very, very quickly.
And the worst thing that can happen when you are "spazzing" at the end
of a race is that someone in the boat can "catch a crab" (get his/her
oar stuck in the water at the finish), stopping the forward progress
of the shell entirely, possibly ejecting the rower from the boat (or
flipping it over, in the case of a single scull) and generally
hurting your chances of winning. 

This is especially true in tailwinds or choppy water.

Thus, rowers will push very, very hard if the race is close, but
if it's not close the leader will tend to row much more conservatively.
We generally call it "cruising" in the US, or "switching to cruise mode,"
or "riding your lead." It is a deliberate strategy, for the most
part. 

				hal
 


                  ___o                        Howard Weingram
                  \   \                       ORACLE Network Products
                   \/\ |                      415/506-2885 hweingra@oracle.com
 "5,4,3,2,1 ARE YOU \ READY? (F#CK YES!) ROW!"
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: kgo@comm.wang.com (Kirk Olsen)
Subject: Anyone built a baidarka?
Organization: Wang Labs
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 14:25:18 GMT

Just wondering if anyone on the net had built a baidarka.  After seeing
the Scientific American frontiers program on the Baidarka, seeing George
Dyson discuss the evolution of the Baidarka, and reading up on it some,
I just have to try and build one.


-- 
Kirk                    WANG LABS                  kgo@comm.wang.com
(508)967-2076  in beautiful Lowell Massachusetts   uunet!comm.wang.com!kgo
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: spoiled brats who train
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:37:28 GMT

schuette@roadkill.nrl.navy.mil (Larry Schuette) writes:

>pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin) writes:

>>To me, that is a cop out.  We have world records in the Marathon, and there
>>is no control on how hilly, wet, cold, etc the course is.  Same with most
>>road running events.  Same with most outdoor sports, I would think.

>>Just say no to rowing tanks and artificial white water courses!

>Are you comparing times for Boston with N.Y.C.'s marathon?

No, but a world record set in Boston would be just as valid as one set in
NYC (just not as likely!)

>So, I guess TAC no longer worries about wind-aided 100 meter sprints 
>and long jumps?
Yes, they do, but where do you draw the line?  Are records set in Mexico
City not as valid because the air was thinner?

I say that the rowing events at the olympics should have had the WR times
for comparison.  Sure, don't count them if the wind is above a certain
amount, but at least let the _fans_ see where they compare.

Even in Orienteering, where _every_ event is a totally different playing
field, we like to compare minutes/km, time lost due to mistakes, that sort
of thing.

>As for spoiled brats who won't train, you, sir, don't have a clue as to
>what real athletes are willing to do to try and make an olympic team.  

I'm basing my opinion on two instances mentioned in "Caldwell on Cross
Country" - which used to be _the_ book for self coached cross country
skiers.

1) US national jumping team at Holmenkol (or one of the big jumping events)
wont go out and train - the runs are too icy, they might hurt themselves.
The Norwegian team is jumping every day.  Two weeks later, at the event, the
runs are still icy.  Guess which team handled it better.

2) Two members of the Norwegian XC team are visiting Putney Vt, where the US
team was traditionally based.  A big dump of sopping wet snow overnight
(otherwise known as Eastern Powder).  Nobody is skiing, because the groomers
can't set tracks in this stuff.  Norwegian skiers put on yellow klister and
ski up and down on the 3 or 4 km of skidoo track up to where the skidoo got
stuck.

Another instance - I was at a ski camp for my University team, and the
Canadian national womens team was at the same place.  The temperature
plummeted down to -40.  Many of the national team members weren't
skiing, while our group was out everyday working on technique until the
camera froze, and just skiing around.  Guess what the temperature was a
week later at the Muskoka Loppet?  I set a personal best at that race.
Of course, the Loppet lost their accredation the next year when it was just
as cold, and FIS had declared that you can't have races when it's that
cold, but _I_ was glad I skied that race, and at the ski camp.


-- 
Paul Tomblin, pt@geovision.gvc.com or {uunet,revcan}!geovision!pt
(This is not an official opinion of GeoVision Systems Inc.)
"We are like butterflies who flutter for a day and think it is forever"
    --  Carl Sagan
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: klug@mzdmza.zdv.uni-mainz.de
Subject: outfitters in France/Spain
Reply-To: klug@mzdmza.zdv.uni-mainz.de
Organization: Johannes-Gutenberg Univ. Mainz
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:23:45 GMT

Hi there,

does anybody know outfitters or paddling schools in southern France,
(Massive Central) or northern Spain (Pyrenees)?
I plan to go on a two weeks trip in september, so if anybody has
any suggestions where to go, I would appreciate, if he or she 
could send me some informations.

  Thank you,
                      Andreas.


My  e-mail address:  KLUG@VZDMZC.ZDV.UNI-MAINZ.DE

Andreas Klug         
Uhlandstr. 2
D-6501 Nieder-Olm
Germany
From: rsk@aspen.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: why no world record times
Summary: Artificial whitewater slalom courses
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:51:15 GMT
Organization: Cardiothoracic Imaging Research Center

In article <1992Aug12.012039.9643@geovision.gvc.com> pt@geovision.gvc.com writes:
>Why this insistince on a totally level playing field?  Personally, I think
>it's things like this that make the olympics so damn expensive, and make
>most athletes (except Silken Lauman, of course), spoiled brats who won't
>even _train_ is the conditions are a little off.
>
>Just say no to rowing tanks and artificial white water courses!

Artificial whitewater courses serve several purposes, none of which have
the slightest thing to do with "spoiled brats".

1. They provide reliable water.  It's hard to train when there's no water,
or too much water.

2. Those with variable flow provide the ability to exercise athletes
under differing conditions without waiting for the weather.

3. Those with variable obstructions (e.g. South Bend) make it possible
to alter the course in order to train paddlers to cope with different
river situations.

4. Those constructed on the outflows of various plant discharges
(e.g. Dickerson) provide a *slightly* warmer environment in the winter.
No course that I know of is warm enough in the winter to alleviate the
ever-present danger of hypothermia.

5. They provide competitive-grade whitewater in areas where it would
not normally exist (e.g. Sea d'Urgell).

I suggest that you may wish to go down to Dickerson and observe the
US Canoe and Kayak Team in training this winter before you use phrases
like "spoiled brats".  Those people are out there *every day* no matter
how bad the weather gets, and it is routine for them to paddle down
the course, up the Potomac, and then to carry their boats back to the
course through the snow, mud and whatever before starting again.  Heck,
I watched Kara Ruppel practice for hours on the chilly Yough this weekend
in rain coming down so hard that the gates were almost invisible.

I know of no competitive whitewater paddler "who won't even _train_ is [sic]
the conditions are a little off".  If you do, I would like you to provide
their name and the relevant evidence in order to back up your statement.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: roy@zooks.eng.mcmaster.ca (Roy Underhill)
Subject: Re: Help Me With RUSSIAN Canoes ! :-)
Summary: pad the frame
Organization: Dept. of Mech. Eng., McMaster University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:40:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.160108.3973@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> au143@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mikael Niku) writes:
>
>...   This is because they have an aluminum frame
>upholstered with rubberized fabric...

	Guessing from my experience with similar boats, the greatest
damage is where the cloth is stretched over the frame.  You can go for
kevlar if you want.  Yes, it is expensive.  It will NOT change the
wear pattern.  To do that, you must reduce the stresses on the cloth
where it meets the frame.  One suggestion is the pad the frame.  This
would allow sharp scraping impacts to be spread over an area.
Still use something relatively smooth for a covering material.  I have
had adequate success with canvas, filled with latex paint and sealed
with enamel paint. It is not wonderful, but it is very cheap and surprisingly
robust.  If there are a lot of sharp objects that would penetrate
canvas, then consider something tougher - say some kind of nylon
filled and sealed with urethane.
	Good luck,


Roy
-- 
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  
  Roy Underhill,  (416) 525-9140 x4395   roy@zooks.eng.mcmaster.ca 
  Department of Mechanical Engineering,  McMaster University, 
  Hamilton,  Ontario,  Canada            L8S 4L7
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: schultz@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Dennis Schultz)
Subject: Re: Colorado Bashing (was: Is the Gauley Class V ?)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 16 Aug 92 17:12:30 GMT

andyh@microsoft.com (Andy Held) writes:

>In article <15290046@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> Andy Brown .sigs:

>>andy "another transplanted eastener living in colorado because of the great
>>      whitewater which is frozen half the year anyway" brown

>Frozen 1/2 the year, dry 1/3, floooding 1/12, leaving you one month of
>good boating. . . 

>andy "another transplanted easterner, who passed thru colorado for three
>years, and left!" held



	Although whitewater is rapidly diminishing in this state, it has
nothing to do with the weather, snowpack, or availability of runs.
I've run good classV atleast 5 months out of the year, and normally run
March through October on rivers in general (thats 8 months for you kayakers).
Although technically not part of Colorado, (although you can put in at
Ruby-Horsethief which is in Colorado and run on down), between me and my
buddy we have run Westwater in every month except January.  However, several
runs have already been destroyed, thanks to our greedy dam builders, and
several more will soon disappear.  The only run sure to be here in 20 years,
will be the Ark, and that won't be much more than a day at Water World! (Its
not only new dams, but the fact that more and more water will be diverted to
agriculture and cities from the old ones)
Dead or Severely Critical
Dolores (about 4 to 5 runs along 150 or so miles)
Upper Taos Box (and lower to some extent, San Luis valley sucks Rio G dry)
Williams Fork, Fraser and Upper Colorado (below Hot Sulfur Srings)
Browns Canyon & Royal Gorge (because of constant minimal flows and overuse,
their nothing but Wally World)
Future Deletions:
Lower Poudre Runs
South Platte
Gunnison Gorge (Black Canyon will be on respirator)
(also forgot the Roaring Fork, most of its water is diverted)
Others?
From: jml@visus.com (Jim Large)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: flatwater vs. whitewater: paddle lengths differ?
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:46:54 GMT
Organization: Visual Understanding Systems, Pgh PA


  I recently changed to a shorter paddle (202) for recreational
boating.  I find it's much like shifting into low gear.  It's not
as efficient for downriver paddling, but when I need a burst of
power to catch a wave or make an attainment it's great.

  -- Jim Large <jml@visus.com>
From: schuette@roadkill.nrl.navy.mil (Larry Schuette)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: ice breaking canoes
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:41:20 GMT
Organization: Naval Research Lab, Physical Acoustics, Washington, DC

pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin) mentions:

>I'm sure rowing in Canada will have a huge boom in a couple of years
>because of all this publicity - so you guys better watch out for the
>ice-breaker skulls.

The most fun (it is flatwater) I have ever had training for flatwater 
competition is in the winter.  When the potomac freezes (less than 2 ") 
my partner and I grab a grumman that we have put a kneeling platform in.  
High kneeling our icebreaker is a great workout and a lot of fun.  
The best part is the police at the Washington Harbour (fancy restraunts 
and shops - where the big rowing regatta in D.C. ends) yelling and 
spotlighting us from shore - trying to hand out tickets I guess.

The ice tends to lower the stroke rate, but is good resistance training.
It also helps to use somebody elses paddle (:)), as the tip gets abused...

I've never seen a shell out on those nights, but then, they probably go
down river a few miles and row there.  In the winter, the potomac "never"
freezes in between National Airport and the Wilson Bridge, we try to 
train there before 7am (avoiding rush hour like the plague).

Larry
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: ice breaking canoes
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:37:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: vmd.168481222F.EPLUS17
Organization: C.C.S.O.

In article <3373@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
schuette@roadkill.nrl.navy.mil (Larry Schuette) writes:
 
>pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin) mentions:
>
>>I'm sure rowing in Canada will have a huge boom in a couple of years
>>because of all this publicity - so you guys better watch out for the
>>ice-breaker skulls.
>
>The most fun (it is flatwater) I have ever had training for flatwater
>competition is in the winter.  When the potomac freezes (less than 2 ")
>my partner and I grab a grumman that we have put a kneeling platform in.
>High kneeling our icebreaker is a great workout and a lot of fun.
>The best part is the police at the Washington Harbour (fancy restraunts
>and shops - where the big rowing regatta in D.C. ends) yelling and
>spotlighting us from shore - trying to hand out tickets I guess.
>
>The ice tends to lower the stroke rate, but is good resistance training.
>It also helps to use somebody elses paddle (:)), as the tip gets abused...
>
>I've never seen a shell out on those nights, but then, they probably go
>down river a few miles and row there.  In the winter, the potomac "never"
>freezes in between National Airport and the Wilson Bridge, we try to
>train there before 7am (avoiding rush hour like the plague).
>
>Larry
 
I made a sliding rigger unit to bolt onto a poly sailboard.  In winter, when
there is a thin sheet of ice on the six acre lake behind our house, I go out
and play icebreaker...a couple of good hard strokes to get up speed, the board
glides onto the ice, and then I rock my body until we break through.  (If I
fall in, its less than 100 yards to my house and a warm tub.)  A couple hours
of this, and the ice is chopped up enough so I can go out windsurfing.  (my
neighbors think that I am crazy....but they thought that before I started
boasting in winter.)
 
Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans          Those who can, teach;
                                     those who can't, don't;
eplus17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu             and too many who think they
or EPLUS17@UIUCVMD                   can teach neither can nor do.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan)
Subject: Re: comments on kayaking, rowing, level field
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 02:51:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.023923.21044@morrow.stanford.edu>,
GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:

>A K4 will certainly not blow by an eight in 500m.  Given equal
>athletic talent and expertise, an Int'l level men's 8 can do
>sub 1:18 in 500m flat out to a K4's 1:35 or so.
>
oops, sorry, my recollection was sub 1:25 for K4, fat fingered it.

Mike

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle