HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: RE: Gay Characteristics
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:50:18 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

I must say that I agree with Dan in many points. You just can't stick a
label 'DANGER' in anyone just for sexual preferences.

Now, the Bible topics:

Obviosly God didn't need research about what was happening in Sodom. But
see that it was not His only purpose and God always have tried to explain
Himself in human terms and human terms never fullfil the Truth of God.
It was a matter of Culture. People in those days were all politeists and the
conception of an omniscient God was very rare. gods live far away and,
had only partial knowledge about what happended on earth.

About Lot. Well, one of the greatest values of semitic cultures was
hospitiality, that was because they were semi nomads and had learned that
if they didn't help the stranger in a trip. They would not be helped when
they needed to go somewhere else. Thats why Lot prefered to give his
girls and not the strangers. And, well if Lot knew about the sexual
preferences of those people, offering the girls could be a tricky but
wise solution.

Shalom,
Memo.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:50:44 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      words like "alcoholic"
X-cc:         ALL@NIHCU.BITNET

Kerry writes: ...drunkards (I do NOT accept the label "alcoholic").

Alison asks: what is your objection to the word "alcoholic"?

I suspect that many people consider that to say, "he is an
alcoholic," is another way of saying, "he has a condition that just
is, that he did not choose, and that he is in no way responsible
for." Along similar lines, a shoplifter, if of good family, is often
called a "kleptomaniac." A serial rapist is called "sexually
dysfunctional." Someone who habitually breaks the speed limit is
called an "adrenaline addict." And so on. This is seen as part of an
outlook that regards any misdeed whatsoever as something that the
misdoer did not really do -- it just happened to him.

Do those who reject this blanket explanation adopt the opposite
position of denying that anyone ever has more difficulty than anyone
else in observing a given moral prohibition? Some of them perhaps do
take this view. Other would say, "Let us begin by facing up to the
fact that you stole that necklace and that stealing is wrong.  Until
you grant that, we are not even at Square One. After that, we can
inquire into how strongly you were tempted and what, if anything,
can be done to make it easier for you to resist temptation
hereafter."

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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Organization: Samford University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:00:41 CDT
From:         Renee Autry <SRAUTRY@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Homosexuality and the SBC

Bernice writes : " . . . anyone that studies the bible knows that a man with
man or a woman with woman relationship is sinful. . . "


While I would agree that many people that study the Bible come to this
conclusion, I think it is not necessarily true that "anyone" who studies
the Bible comes to this conclusion.  I am sure many of you know of the recent
controversies in the Southern Baptist Convention regarding two churches in
North Carolina and their stances on homosexuality.  While it is perfectly
legitimate for you to disagree with their judgements, in all fairness to
our extended church family, I must say that I am sure that a number of them
did extensive Biblical study prior to coming to their conclusions.
In the March 19, 1992 issue of BAPTISTS TODAY  Mahan Siler, the pastor of
Pullen Memorial Baptist Church in Raleigh, N.C. chronicles some of the thoughts
he had while going through this decision process with his congregation.
A portion of the article details the Biblical study and resolutions that went
into this decision.

This is not meant as an endorsement for homosexuality.  However, I think we
often assume that because someone has not come to the same opinions that
we hold, they have not studied the Scriptures.  Many times this is untrue.
Issues such as homosexuality, abortion, women in ministry, Biblical authority,
etc. are very difficult, and there is the possibility for disagreement even
within the Christian community.  The opposing faction disagrees with you -
but they may have read their Bible before coming to do so :-)

No flames intended Bernice :-)


Peace and grace in Christ,


Renee
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:55:53 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Judging others

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757


> Should Christians tolerate others,in their company, who openly sin?

> 1 Corinthians 5:1-2  It is actually reported that there is immorality among
> you, and of a kind that is not even found among pagans; for a man is living
> with his fathers wife.  And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn?
> Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
> THE LORD HAS SPOKEN!!

> Revelation 2:20  But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman
> Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and beguiling my
> servants to practice immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.
> THE LORD HAS SPOKEN!!

> Vernon

This is a bit confusing to me...I always thought that one of the main
teachings of Christianity is "Judge not lest you be judged" yet here
the bible clearly tells people to judge others and only stay with people
who are "worthy".  Doesn't this also mean that witnessing is out of the
question since you can't be around "unworthy" people?
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: revelation
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:32:40 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Jesse,  Well, I said I would ask... He laughed and said He is right.

                                             Peace, Zane the raving space
                                                    loon.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:06:13 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 8/12
X-To:         Christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.  In Christ, God has
given us every spiritual blessing in heaven" (Ephesians 1:3).

" ... the great strength God used to raise Christ from death and put him at his
right side in heaven.  God made Christ more important than all rulers,
authorities, powers, and kings.  Christ is more important than anything in this
world or in the next world" (Ephesians 1:20,21).

"And he raised us up with Christ and gave us a seat with him in the heavens.
He did this for those of us who are in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:6).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:03:06 EDT
From:         WALTER SHERRILL <SHERRIWR@DUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Raising a child for Christ

      In the Bible it states clearly in Ephesians, that children are to
      obey their parents as unto the Lord. Parents are to raise their
children in the way that they should go so that when they are old they
should not depart from Godly precepts.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Is the Bible Absolute Truth?
From: comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:30:23 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss) writes:


>Madge,

>	Have you considered taking Christia off of Netnews?



> en agape,
> Bob 

I would be sorry to see this happen as it is my only access to it.  However
I agree that if posters won't respect reasonable limits and conditions, you
may have to do something drastic.

jj

John Thayer Jensen                      64 9 373 7599 ext. 7543
Commerce Computer Services              64 9 373 7437 (FAX)
Auckland University                     jt.jensen@aukuni.ac.nz
Private Bag 92019
AUCKLAND
New Zealand
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:49:35 CDT
From:         Joe Moore <CC19@SDSUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Perfect Numbers (was 888)

> Not the prime factors, all the factors.  The factors of 28 are 1, 2, 4, 7,
> and 14 (and 28, but you can't count that or else *no* numbers would
> be perfect).
>
1 would be and maybe 0.  Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Just had to lighten it up a minute.

Joe Moore
cc19@sdsumus
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:12:29 CDT
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Jesus speaks

Out of curiosity I stopped and read Elizabeth Stevens' post of Cyndi Cain's
Locutions of Mary and Jesus.

Ok, serious question here....Honest.

Was that a joke or do people really believe that stuff?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: psyrobtw@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Christia and NetNews
Date: 14 Aug 92 02:56:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <CHRISTIA%92081313323029@ASUACAD.BITNET>, ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET (Madge McBurney) writes...
>Hello everyone,
> 
>I'm really busy with work related matters right now, but I do plan to
>comment on this topic tonight (hopefully).  I appreciate everyone's
>point of view on this matter, and I know that Steven will be interested
>in this discussion as well.

Madge,
	First off, I'm glad to see that you are back to work. I hope 
that all is well.
	
	Next, on the Netnews thing. First, I use netnews to view 
Christia. I find it very easy this way. I can reply to the person 
sending the article a lot easier than when I was subbed to asuacad. 
However, I find that the many of the sniper type articles come from 
people who are using usenet.It seems that those who invest their 
account into Christia, that is, they are willing to receive the mail, 
actually are more committed than those that are just drive-by-shooters.

	Perhaps a happy medium would be to keep Christia on usenet, 
but limit postings to the list to those who are actual subscribers...



 en agape,
 Bob 
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Samford University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 10:34:32 CDT
From:         Renee Autry <SRAUTRY@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Direct Revelation, passe?

On Thu, 20 Aug 1992 10:28:36 EST Kerry Stephenson said:
>Marty:
>
>If you'd like to send this to me private, please do; I don't want to
>start anything.  I'm just wondering what your personal interpretation
>of the Medjugorje events is (are?), and, if you know, how the local
>bishop (I think that's what you said) views them, if he doesn't
>view them the way the followers do.  Thanks.
>
>  Love INC,
>           ---Kerry


I would like this information also.
Thanks,
       Renee (SRAutry@Samford)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: 78witherspoo@cua.edu
Subject: Re: Siege Mentality (was ACLJ Activities)
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:48:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.162450.12414@gboro.glassboro.edu>, kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie) writes:

> 
> What I can't figure is "who are `they'?"  I'm beginning to suspect that a lot
> of the "Siege Mentality" -- the idea that we are being oppressed -- is built
> out of nothing.
________________________________________________________________________

I think you're dead on target with this one.  I am tired of hysteria and "seige
tactics" clouding the issues at hand.

 
> "[Politicans] are all liars anyway."
> "Some of them are liars AND scum; some of them are just liars."
>                                               -- Michael & Hope Steadman

Love and good walking,

Tom Witherspoon
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:16:36 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      To Zane : Absolute or what?

Dear Zane ;

When I use the term, 'absolute', I mean "never failing"  or "ALWAYS holds as
true", but I do not mean "EXHAUSTIVE."

Does that help?
Besides, we do not NEED exhaustive truth, nor could we possess it, for only
the Lord has that ability and status.
All we need is "sufficient" Truth, in that we need only that we REALLY need and
that is just the case in reality, since the Word of God is not Exhaustive
Truth, but is "Sufficient" Truth ... and it is ABSOLUTE in that it never fails
to be true. It is as axiomatically true and consistent as "2+2=4."




In the Lord Christ ;

Jesse Irwin Carnes
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:08:32 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: This won't win me any friends, but...
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

	Not that I support the veneration of dead saints more than living
saints, but ...

>Is not mediation equivalent to intercession?  Are not these two terms
>synonomous?

	No, they are not synonymous, just as accountability and
responsibility are not synonymous.   :-)

	Don't forget in your zeal to unviel unbiblical practices that we are
called to intercede with God for others.  But Jesus is the one mediator.


>Jesse Carnes


Mark
drake@asuchm.la.asu.edu
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Organization: University of Missouri-Columbia Campus Computing, 314-882-2000
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:45:43 CDT
From:         Elizabeth Stevens <CCCAMPER@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Jesus speaks

On Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:53:52 EDT Bernice Tennant said:
>Elizabeth,
>
>Why do these alledged messages of Jesus sound so different from the words
>and teachings  of Jesus as told in the scriptures?
>
>                              Your friend in Christ, Bernice
Bernice,
When you were teaching Chris as a little boy to tie his shoe or
to button his shirt or to eat his food, did you teach him in the
same manner as if you were to see him running into the path
of an oncoming car?

He speaks with Love about Love and with authority over evil.
Personally, I don't find this different. But I have read entire
bodies of works to get a better feel than a single message.

Perhaps you can point to something in particular, then
find something similar in the Bible to compare it to and let me
know.  ?

love, e
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:03:35 MST
From:         Madge McBurney <ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      I need more time!

I'm really behind in my mail.  If you're expecting a private reply from
me, please be patient.  I'll try to answer some mail tonight.

Thanks,
Madge McBurney
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 17:21:17 EDT
From: Tim Bieling <QAA@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Gays are not violent

In article <CHRISTIA%92081920033043@ASUACAD.BITNET>,
MKLINE%VDH.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU says:
>[sick article deleted]
>   They didn't show any violence in this. I saw quite a few gay people
>that didn't look "gay"(happy). One young man was trying to hold a
>tattered "High School Fag" crayon sign on his chest. He didn't look
>gay.

"Didn't look gay"???  Just what does a gay person look like?  I am a
very happy person who just happens to be very much in love with someone
who is the same sex as I am.

>[more stuff deleted]
>   Is this speaker trying to say, "Us homosexuals have no talent and
>need something like the GI Bill and then laws that FORCE people to
>hire us if we are going to make it."
>   Colleen Grace from Chester Virginia in our local paper writes to
>the editor: "Regarding homosexuals in our armed forces: Being a good
>soldier is not the issue. I invite those who doubt that homosexuality
>is a dysfunction to visit gay bars, and go behind the scenes to the
>little rooms hidden from the public eye. Look around and see gay men
>hitting on heterosexual men - in public places.

Riiiiiiight... and if you visit 42nd St in NYC you will find women
selling themselves to straight men.  You fail to mention the number of
stable gay couples (unfortunately unable to legally marry) that exist.

Being a soldier has nothing to do with being gay or straight - it is a
mindset - can you do the job or not!

>   Our soldiers have enough to fear without being exposed to the
>wandering thoughts, eyes, and subtle touches of the sexually
>dysfunctional.
>   Personally, I think the gay movement is just the "in" thing to
>do to get attention in the '90s.
>
>Hope someone was able to get something from this. Amazing what goes on
>in the US, ain't it?

No, what's amazing is that there are still lots of people like you who
cling to some bizzare idea of "traditional values".  I have traditional
values, but mine are more inclusive.  I want the right to marry the
person I choose.

This whole thread is sickening to me - all these people telling me that
because I am in love with another man, I am sick.  Well, feel free to
bash - it just shows your (collective your) ignorance in relationships.

I plan to marry my boyfriend even if it's just a symbolical demonstration
of our love for each other.

I feel sorry that all of you feel such hate for same-sex marriages - to me
that says that you really don't know what a relationship is all about.

-Tim [frustrated by the sheer ignorance displayed by "christians"]
From: iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM (Ian Williams)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: when the world is new..
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:49:05 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]

Julie Miller song..


I get so tired of myself,
jaded by shadows,
no wonder people turn away
when I give you such a bad name,
but its so nice to know..

When the World is new,
I will be like, be like you..




---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:48:05 EDT
From:         MKLINE%VDH.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Homosexuality
X-To:         christia%asuacad.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU

Subject: Re: Homosexuality


Here is one of the paragraphs from A.E. Wilder-Smith's book on the
teachings of homosexuality. I'm looking for another excellent write
up he had, but so far, to no avail... His write up deals with the
characteristics of homosexuals as a group. It is not judgmental, but
speaks of observable characteristics they have and compares them with
Sodom and Gamorah. Not what most would think.

    From A.E. Wilder-Smith's AIDS-Fact without Fiction.

    "Had our schools and their teachers known and appreciated the words of
the Holy Bible with respect to homosexuality, had today's priests and
religious instructors taught lessons on the Old and New Testament in a
conscientious manner, then many children would have had the chance of
appreciating that anal intercourse is a perversion of human sex life that
has psychological (aggression) and physiological (epidemic disease)
consequences. These teachings are so serious that homosexuality was
punished by death and the exclusion from God's People in Israel(4). The
terminology used in the old scripts about sodomy is UNAMBIGUOUS. SODOM and
SODOMY were the direct causes of God's judgement and the New Testament
confirms the rationale of this severe sentence. The fact that the modern
world thinks differently about these practices is only A CONFIRMATION THAT
TODAY'S SOCIETY IS BECOMING BLATANTLY AND AGGRESSIVELY POST-CHRISTIAN."

    (4) Deut. 23:17; 1 Kings 14:15, 22; 2 Kings 23:7; Gen 13:13; Gen 19;
Rom 1:19-33.

    I saw this and had to ask myself, "What SHOULD I believe?"

    We ARE to LOVE the sinner, but HATE the sin.

In His Love,
Maks
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:28:47 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: BIBLE

Dear Zane ;

I will answer your questions in turn ... so keep your question order in order
... get it?

1) Romans is my favourite ... Hebrews runs a close second, with Kata John on
its heals.

2) Regarding Enoch, no, I have not read that particular pseudoepigraphical-non-
canonical work.Some feel that Jude quotes from it informally.

3) The New International Version is my favourite trans., due to the minute
detail and sweat that went into that particular "Concept Translation."
The New American Standard is my favourite "Word-per-word Translation."
("flesh" is an example of a problem with the NIV in Romans 7)

4) Early Christians (eg., "First generation ekklesia" ca. A.D. 30-70)
implemented O.T. scrolls primarily ... LXX genre most likely ... and may
have had a few circulating "Apostolic Gospels" floating around from local
assembly to assembly, as well as copies of any Pauline, Petrine, Johannine,
etc. letters which were available.

We must remember that until the canon was collated at the end of the Apostolic
era, Direct Revelation from God was still extant and viable, due to the not
yet THEN finished product.




Jesse Carnes
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 11:14:24 -0500
From:         "j.b. cormier" <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Bible - Part 2

Tom:

I have a little problem with the following statements of yours:

> "All scripture is given by inspiration of God," according to Paul in
>II Tim 3:16. That also means that Paul wrote II Tim 3:16 as an inspired
>Apostle of Jesus Christ. After all, Paul did say, "All scripture," which
>includes his own writings as well.

First, I ask, how can something contain internal proof of its authenticity?
For example, if I write at the end of this message that it is the ablsolute
truth, inspired by God, who will believe me?

Two, Paul was writing about scripture at his time.  His letters were not in
his concept of scripture.  None of the NT was in Paul's mind when he wrote
that statement, if you even accept that Paul wrote II Timothy.  Many
Biblical scholars do not accept II Timothy as part of Paul's writings.

What do you think?

Jason
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