From: carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Gay people {Carl Lewis}
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:53:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Travel Online / St. Louis Online - St. Louis, MO
Reply-To: carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca) 

JT>Subject:  Gay people (Wolle mer se reinlasse?)

JT>JEFF> Hey ! Where do you guys live and what gays are you referring to? Ameri
JT>JEFF> If so, then you are wrong about your overall assumption that "there ar
JT>JEFF> subtle signs". Gays in Europe, for example, generally need no introduc
JT>JEFF> as such; they are open about their preferrence. They hang out with gay
JT>JEFF> talk about their experience with you (if the approach is discrete), an
JT>JEFF> are very SERIOUS in their relationships.

Hi Jeff!

I lived in Europe for 98% of my life :-), I'm German. So I know the
"European" Gay scene. You would see more openly Gays over there, but you
won't recognize the hidden, which exist there, too. But not as many as
in bigot land.

JT>JEFF> One reason for this is probably because, in Europe, gays are accepted
JT>JEFF> in most segments of society and tolerated. So there is no reason to hi
JT>JEFF> ones character. Of course there are those that will always complain
JT>JEFF> and show a dislike for gays but this is expected.

Well, it is better than here in the Midwest in St. Louis (sigh), but
still not optimal.

JT>The average Gay does know much, much more about relationship, than the
JT>average Straight. He has to, for surviving. Look at the related
JT>professions: The rate of Gays is higher than average. (If I fail with my
JT>thesis, I open a Institute for Marriage Advice :-) )

JT>JEFF> It's and interesting assumption. I think one of you mentioned
JT>JEFF> in an earlier text that something like 1 in 10 men are PROBABLY gay.
JT>JEFF> If this is so then, then gays have fewer choices and can't
JT>JEFF> possibly allow a relationship to land on the rocks.
JT>JEFF> Therefore, they
JT>JEFF> work hard at their relationships, thus tend to have more experience
JT>JEFF> when it comes to knowing what works and may not work in a relation-
JT>JEFF> ship. I don't suspect them to be more intelectually inclined than the
JT>JEFF> average individual.

That's great! IMHExperience, Gay men have more trouble in relationships
than any other (man/woman, woman/woman). First, Gays _tend_ to grow
up in screwed up families, so many had never seen a working
relationship as children. Second, the classical socialisation with it's
role education is still in effect. The woman is responsible for the
feelings and the work in the relationship, the man does the work and the
competition. Thus, if two of those come together, neither one is
especially trained to work out the problems in a relationship. After one
has had a couple of broken relationships, he will recognise more and
more important things and problems in a relationship.
Furthermore, he is trained from the early puberty to hide his true
feelings. He learns to suppress the subtle signs, showing the emotions.
Then he learns to recognise others in the same situation. He perceives
signs, that are unseen by straights. Straights have the luxury not to
have to pay attention to that.

This all sounds terribly prejudiced. I'm not that way. This is
a very general statement, and you will find lots of exceptions.
Regarding a peculiar intellectality of Gays, I think the same way as you
do. They are not more or less intelligent than average.

JT>JEFF> There are places for everything I suppose. Even straight couples don't
JT>JEFF> display so much intimacy public anymore. "What will the people think o
JT>JEFF> me or us". A little discretion and a lot of privacy makes most of us
JT>JEFF> feel a lot more comfortable. But hey! People IN LOVE don't care what
JT>JEFF> others think. Right? Right.

In theory. But when you are in danger to get jailed, bashed or fired for
that, you think twice.

JT>This annoys me sooo much. No Gay sitcoms, no Gay love stories, no Gay
JT>soaps, no Gay ads... (Tip: Movie "Parting glances", "Maurice")
JT>I do not ask everything to be gay, but the fair share of representation
JT>in EVERYTHING according to the rate in the society.

JT>JEFF> Well not many people or most people are gay.

I know. I was asking for the FAIR share.

JT>JEFF> Or better yet there are
JT>JEFF> not enough courageous gay people out there that feel they can pull
JT>JEFF> something like this off; financially or emotionally.
JT>JEFF> Hey! The same cry we Blacks used to make. The risks are great and succ
JT>JEFF> is a shot in the dark. It took time. Be patient.

Being patient alone doesn't help enough. Look at TERRANCE's sig!
Unfortunately, being openly gay is still a political action.

JT>A shot of optimism and human tolerance. Jeff.

Thank you,

Carl.

PS: Have you ever met a _beautiful_ girl in Mainz? I've never seen a
pretty Mainzerin. One of them almost got me into her bed. Yeeeech!

 * OLX 2.1 TD * "Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again." -