HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:29:50 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.151432.9078@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
> 
> > Dave Shariff Yadallee (yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca,
> > userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca)
> > God Save the Queen, God Bless us All! Remember! Jesus Saves!!
> 
> He was also a communist, a pacifist and a devout Jew.

Isn't it terrible what religion can do to a mind?
Why, sometimes I have trouble distinguishing between
mental illness and religious fundamentalism...



--
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Accents (was Re: Abuse a Brit)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:00:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.152702.13717@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>In article <BvH3MI.KrD@acsu.buffalo.edu> v064myby@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Christophe J Quaranta) writes:
>>      PS How many Brits can tell the difference between a Canadian &
>>an American?
>
>Aw, that's trivial.  Canadians visiting Europe almost inevitably wear
>those little maple-leaf flag lapel pins, precisely to ensure that they
>can be distinguished.
>

	The boring answer: the real giveaway is when they speak and use
	a word with "ou" in it.  Canadians, as a general rule, seem
	to compress this vowel pair almost to a diphthong (Phonetics
	isn't a strong point of mine.).  Americans tend to lengthen
	vowels.

	Alec.
From: dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Abuse A Brit (was Re: Pardon my ignorance and such)
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:23:16 GMT
	<1992Sep29.130858.17852@osf.org> <1992Sep29.133927.2031@cas.org>
Organization: Open Software Foundation

In article <1992Sep29.133927.2031@cas.org> jac54@cas.org () writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.130858.17852@osf.org> dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
> >
> >Napoleon called us a nation of grocers.  That was regarded as a mild insult
> >until Maggie came on the scene.
> Enlighten me on how this Napoleonic gibe came to
> be received so many years later.

Recall that TBM spent her formative years living over a grocer's shop, and
how she made it suddenly OK to be petite bourgeouisie (well, Ted Heath did
that a little too).
--
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Four more months!  Four more months!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 16:53:43 GMT

From article <1992Oct2.185346.19917@nas.nasa.gov>, by wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith):
> Graham Walker writes:
> 	
> 	This is to assume that he was the guy who lived in Stratford. I
> 	personally arge with the group who believe that he was the Earl of
> 	Oxford (I forget his exact title). In which case he was doing it for
> 	reason other than making a living.
> 
> 
> 
> Current research has now proved conclusively that Shakespeare's plays
> were written by a different person of the same name.
> 
> 
> William Sburgfort Smith
> Intel, SSD
> 
It is not clear as to which "same name" you mean Shakespeare or Earl of
Oxford? Please follow up.

														GW
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13676 rec.arts.books:17705
From: igb@fulcrum.bt.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 6 Oct 92 11:31:21 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

In article <qnclik0@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
> And when he wrote it, did he think "I'm am *not* writing this for
> someone to read"?
> 
> I don't get it: do you seriously suggest that poetry is there to
> be read when it's a poem a page, and when it's organized as a play
> it's intended *not* to be read?

The is almost no autograph Shakespeare.  The plays only exist in the
folio and quarto editions, not autograph, and it is likely that many of
them were produced without any intervention by the author --- it is
thought that several plays were constructed by the recollections of the
actors some time after the event.  The stage directions and much of the
punctuation date from some time later.

Have you ever read stuff from the First Folio?  The spelling, for a
start off, is very hard going for a modern reader.  When you read
``Shakespeare'' you're reading something that has had the spelling
updated, stage directions added, punctuation sorted, variant readings
interpolated, and so on.  Do you realise how much editing has been done
since?  Why do you think that at least publisher prints two Lears, one
from one of the Folios and one from the Quarto?

There is no direct evidence of what Shakespeare wrote down, if anything.
Shakespeare is an accretion of later work.

ian
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Words: American vs English (UK type)
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:58:45 GMT
Organization: On the Brew.

Without any reference to anyone in particular, I sometimes think we should
start a second parallel copy of soc.culture.british in which the use of
smilies would be mandated and with a SAP channel(*) for the humour
impaired.

As far as the word list goes, let's see now, we've seen that mis-spelled
goods in Britain are moved around in imported American trucks, and in
Australia they're flown around by overgrown budgies.  Ah well.  Beautiful
plummage!

Anyway, I've searched my archives and unfortunately the best of the word
list from a couple of years ago has been lost, other than a very unreadable
compilation made by someone who missed much of the subtleties.

I'm working on it to see if I can get it into a form worth reposting but
it'll take some time.  Is Terry Maton (U. of Saskatchewan, the original
proposer and vote counter for s.c.british) still listening?  He kept a good
word list archive last time.  Anyone else got it (other than the ashepps
version)?  If anyone wants to send me remnants of the old one, I'll put it
all together.

(* SAP is the Secondary Audio Programme on NTSC MTS Stereo TV - often used
to transmit a simultaneous audio commentary for blind TV "watchers").
-- 
Ray Dunn at home  |  Beaconsfield,  Quebec,  Canada.
(514) 630 3749    |  ray@philmtl.philips.ca  or  ..uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Names of naughty politicians
Date: 6 Oct 1992 13:25:43 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <1992Oct6.085104.29313@aber.ac.uk>, dpl@aber.ac.uk (David Philip Langstaff) writes:
> In article <Bvn9y8.G1n@scd.hp.com> tim%hpcpbla.bri.hp.com@hplb.hpl.hp.com writes:
> >
> >I'm setting up a cluster of workstations and it has been decreed that the
> >hostnames will have a theme.  The weenies around here want to name them
> >after characters from Startrek (yuk).  To counteract this I've come up 
> >with the idea of politicians disgraced by scandal (the more sordid the better).


> Lovely naming scheme, nice one Tim !, it does have the advantage that the
> list will extend from time to time, so you're not going to run out of
> possible nodes for your network.
> 
> How about
> Stonehouse - caught with his fingers in the till.
> Poulson    - not a politician but greased a few palms in his time.
> T.Dan.Smith - involved with Poulson (I think)
> 
> I suppose that given such a network, you could always use Cynthia Payne
> & Christine Keeler as servers.
> 
>

'Maxwell' as the print server?

-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smckinty@france.sun.com	   BIX: smckinty
From: rnt@drutx.ATT.COM (Diane Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: bad teeth
Date: 26 Sep 92 02:09:43 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: AT&T -- 1200 W. 120th Street, Westminster Colorado



The last time I was in Britain, I noticed a lot of crooked
teeth and didn't see any adolescents with a mouthful of
metal (a common sight in the my part of the U.S).  I just 
assumed it was because I had just had my braces removed and 
was obsessing about teeth.

People are over-simplifying orthodontics.  They are not just
for vanity.  If they were, I guarantee that my dental 
insurance wouldn't pay for them.  I don't have the policy in
front of me, but they will pay up to a certain amount.
(About $1200 - I think).

Crooked teeth are harder to clean and are more prone to
cavities and gum disease.  The nerves in crooked teeth are
underdeveloped from a poor bite and I won't even go into the 
psychological benefits of having straight teeth.  Could it 
be that people with straight teeth chew food better and have 
better digestion too?

This is turning into soc.dental so I'll stop here.
 
Diane Thomas
Denver, Colorado
From: jac54@cas.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Names of naughty politicians
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:31:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: cas.1992Oct6.133150.16846
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio

In article <CC.92Oct6115912@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:
>In article <Bvo465.26v@news.fai.com> pault@ossi.com (Paul Taylor) writes:
>
>   The friend of Harold Wilson who got mixed up in a deal with washing machines
>
	This may have been John Rolls (right period, but I don't think
	there was any connection) and there was also the noted insurance
	scandal of Emil Savundra and his something-something-Marine
	insurance Co.

	Another possibility might be Commander Crabbe the ex-RN
	diver who turned up headless after an unfortunate encounter
	with the "Ordzhokinidze" during Kruschev's visit.  It caused
	quite a scandal for Supermac (I'm told).

	Alec.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sp@osf.org (Simon Patience)
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:47:16 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.124257.24063@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
> From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
> >Which leads to an interesting question.   Why do leftists
> >have this strange relationship with coal?   What's so great
> >about condemning yet another generation of other people's
> >children to a lifetime in a dirty and dangerous environment,
> >where they don't even have the satisfaction of working for
> >an efficient and profitable industry.
> 
> Well, rightists of the old school would know. National
> security. With our own coal, we're not at the mercy of whoever
> it is we rely on for the stuff. Facing up to Arthur Scargill
> was one thing. Facing up to a Polish or South African version
> of Mr.Scargill would be another.
> 
> You don't expect the army or navy to make a profit, they are
> kept in reserve in case they are ever needed. I am saying the
> British coal industry is in the same league.

And just like the army, the threat of foreign attack has receded so a few
regiments are being closed down (That's enough analogy - Ed).

> >Oh, wait.   I think I remember the answer.  It's because
> >jobs in service industries aren't "real" while jobs in
> >mining are.   Wasn't that it?
> 
> Oh yes. If the entire British workforce were kept employed
> selling imports to each other, or selling each others houses,
> we'd get by, wouldn't we? The curent recession has been brought
> about because we've just discovered we wouldn't.

Just because you are in a service industry doesn't mean you can
only sell the service in the UK. The type of industry is irrelevant, it is
whether you export or not.

Simon.

-- 
  Simon Patience
  Open Software Foundation			Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
  Research Institute				FAX:   +33-76-51-05-32
  2 Avenue De Vignate				Email: sp@gr.osf.org
  38610 Gieres, France				       uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
From: news@newcastle.ac.uk (NEWS system)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Pardon my ignorance and such
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:10:59 GMT
Organization: Computing Laboratory, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU.

In article <1992Oct1.211224.25022@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
From: ntgk@turing.newcastle.ac.uk (Trevor Kirby)
>
>How the heck can I bomb something if I don't know where it is?  
>Oh I get it, we had the British troops to show us the way.  
>You'd been there before anyway...   ;-)

{pre-emptive strike on}

Can we just admit she's lead with her chin, and miss the friendly fire flame
fest out this year please.

 Trev
bleep
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: Celtic History in England
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:29:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.092157.10214@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
|> The traditional historical account was that the Anglo-Saxons
|> did indeed push the Celts away to the extremities.
|> ....
|> However I have seen suggestions (maybe from the author who Andy
|> mentions, I forget) that settlements of Welsh-speaking people
|> remained in England after the Ango-Saxon conquest

So the question remains, did the Anglo-Saxons practise ethnic
cleansing or not ?


Talking of books on Celtic culture, a recent publication I saw in
Waterstones suggests that the Trojan War stories, later written
down by Homer, were in fact descended from Celtic stories brought
south to the Med. region (the Celts didn't write).  He places the
actual battles around the Baltic and North sea, with somewhere like
Ipswich being Troy.

Certainly when I saw Micheal Wood's "In Search of Troy" a few years
back a lot of the traditional places didn't fit the story,  ('fraid
I've only read the English translations, failed me 11 plus so I didn't
get to do the Classics).  Still I'm sure our Micheal wouldn't have
fancied trapesing round the Broads in search of Troy.

I asked my local culture.celt experts (I keep two on hand) and they
pronounced this book "utter drivel".  Glad I didn't waste 10 quid
buying it.  

What do you think ?

David.
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: VNS, Wed 30-Sep-1992
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:49:57 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <riaedwards.1.717995319@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au> riaedwards@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (AUDREY EDWARDS) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.090800.1254@bristol.ac.uk> smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>>From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
>>Subject: Re: VNS, Wed 30-Sep-1992
>>Date: 1 Oct 92 09:08:00 GMT
>
>>In article <qh3u2oo@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep30.161026.29890@rdg.dec.com>, cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:
>>>>
>>>> A former TV reseracher has been charged with purgery following 
>>>> his participation in a TV documentary in which the Northern 
>>>> Ireland security forces were accused of collusion with loyalist 
>>>> terrorists.
>>>
>>>Well, don't leave it like that.   What on earth did he do?
>
>>Standard sort of thing.  Refused to reveal the name(s) of his
>>source(s), on grounds that if they became public knowledge said
>>source(s) would be killed.  Considering that the allegation was that
>>the 'security forces' (in a vague general sense) are assisting
>>terrorists, and that it is the 'security forces' (iavgs) who want the
>>names, feels at least logically and morally consistent that said
>>journalist should refuse to give them, particularly since he gave
>>promises of confidentiality as a condition of getting the information.
>
>Without trying to flame you, (as I don't know the case, and I'm much too 
>nice), from a legal aspect, your explanation sounds incorrect. If what the 
>researcher had done had refused to reveal his/her source, then the offence 
>would have been one of 'contempt of court', as in the British Steel v 
>Granada Television case in 1981. 'Purgery' is actually giving evidence which 
>you know to be untrue.

Problem probably is just that we've had two separate partial reports,
from two different people (one of them me).  My story (which didn't use
the word 'perjury') is as it was reported on the news that morning.
Perhaps the original writer got the charge wrong, or maybe my news
report simplified the story, and he did something like say he was
unable to identify his sources, rather than that he wouldn't; or that
he didn't have some information which he provably did.  Don't know.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13549 soc.culture.celtic:6467
From: ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Getting some intelligent discussion going.
Date: 4 Oct 92 19:32:10 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <26611@dog.ee.lbl.gov> mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) writes:
>Alasdair Grant writes:
>>Michael Helm writes:
>>>Alasdair Grant selectivizes the evidence:
>>>>of genetics. On the one hand we have people telling [bunk]
>>>But wait!  On the, uh, 3rd hand, we have had people tell us [other bunk]
>
>(Just trying to be bunk-neutral)
>>I am not taking the views (the ones I originally mentioned) as facts,
>>I am taking the _expression_ of them as indicative of a certain view of
>
>I understood what you said -- I think you're ignoring the ones who
>said something else.  Why?

Because I agree with them. I don't normally argue against myself!
Perhaps I ought to spell it out in laborious detail next time, so
amateur lawyers can't pick holes in it.

>This is a puzzling remark -- no matter what I said, I'd be guilty of
>something.  Do you find Americans flaming or turning their backs &
>shunning your intelligent, interesting postings about modern Scottish
>issues?  It's too much to ask for proof of this in this past (but if
>you've got it...) but maybe you could point it out when it occurs in
>the future.

Well, perhaps my phrasing was a little misleading. I just meant that
on average, Americans appear to be more interested in 'Celticness'
than in modern Scotland/Wales/whatever. Perhaps, strangely, it has
something to do with the group being called soc.culture.celtic, and
there being no soc.culture.scottish (which is where this all started...)
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: VNS: Tue  6-Oct-1992
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:17:05 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <1992Oct6.102918.8182@rdg.dec.com> evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com (Gwyn Evans @ IME) writes:
>    UK News
>    -------
>    FT-SE = 2446.3 (-103.4)
>    Exchange Rate for UK pound = $ 1.7065  = Dm 2.3959
>	= Yn 204.18 = SFr 2.0888 = FFr 8.1571 = A$ 2.3652

You neglect to mention the 'headline' story that that FTSE drop is the
largest drop in a single day since the 1987 'crash', and that that
pound = 2.39 Dm is another 5 pfennig drop.  Which leads to some fear
(in the Tory party, as well as outside) that interest rates may have to
go back up, and worse, that that might have to happen before their
conference closes.

This was pushed into the background a bit (and deservedly) by the
disaster at Schiphol, but I've heard one cynic wondering just how the
British government could have arranged things so as to have a convenient 
air disaster to push this economic misery back off the front page.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sooz@iastate.edu (Susan F Bradley)
Subject: Re: bad teeth
Organization: Dept of English -- IOWA STATE UNIV
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 09:10:53 GMT

    Shall I add my dental experiences to this thread? Sure, why not? The man
who tortured me as a child (aka my dentist) put at least one filling in my 
mouth every time I went to him, including one in a front tooth to get rid of
a spot of discolouration. (Ever had a shot of novocaine in the bottom of your
nose?) When I went to a dentist in England (wonderful, kind man. I'd name my
firstborn after him, but I think a kid named Mr. Robertson might have some
problems with his peers.) Anyway, he seemed to think that I'd most likely had
rather a lot of unneccessary fillings done, including the one in my front 
tooth, which had expanded and no longer matched my tooth in colour. He put
crowns on my two front teeth, mostly for aesthetic purposes and did some other,
badly needed work on three other teeth. I've been to two dentists here in the
US since I got the crowns and both of them have commented on what a beautiful
job was done on the crowns. So, if Dr. Nesbitt is a typical American dentist
and Mr. Robertson is a typical British dentist, I'll take a British dentist
any day. (He was also by far the most sympathetic dentist I've encountered in
dealing with my incredible fear of dentists.)

Susan Bradley
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Tory's compulsory union membership law
From: Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 20:07:43 EDT
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company

In article <BvI4tu.1xn@newcastle.ac.uk>, w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk says:
>
>   You might be interested to hear that John Major has announced that
>before the end of the year a bill will be introduced into Parliament
>which will make everyone join a union.
>
>   It's the "Treaty on European Union".
>So the party which attacked unions and claimed unions were too powerful
>is now forcing everyone to join a new one, without letting them have
>any choice.
'Everyone' has the same choice on this issue as they have on any other
measure introduced by the Governmnet. They can choose to elect somebody
who is against European Union at the next election. In fact, given that
the treaty was signed in Maastricht last November, you could have elected
a government that was against European Union only a few months ago. But
it just so happens that people don't vote in large numbers for candidates
that oppose European Union. I wonder why?

Aengus
--
RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13159 soc.culture.celtic:6291
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Getting some intelligent discussion going.
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:03:48 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:

>Let's have a Scottish group, and keep Celtic racialism out of it.
>I mean, I don't even know whether I'm 0% or 100% Celtic, and I don't care!
>--
>Alasdair Grant

Being Celtic is *not* a racial priviledge, it is a cultural and linguistic
milieau, and a matter of degree.  And if you don't care, you don't
count.
From: Trevor.Kirby@newcastle.ac.uk (Trevor Kirby)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: ALWAYS REMEMBER (was: Re: Guy Fawkes night)
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:18:10 GMT
Organization: Computing Laboratory, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU.


In article <NIKOLAY.92Sep28200714@husc10.harvard.edu>, nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev) writes:
>
>There's a poem (song?) about the old saboteur, which begins:
>'Always remember the 5th of November...' Does anyone remember
>the rest of it, or know any details about it?
>

Other than the first line no. The following ditty was traditional in our area
and I think more in the spirit of old Guido's actions.

Build a bonfire,Build a bonfire
put the teachers on the top
put the prefects in the middle
and burn the bloody lot.

 Trev 
bleep