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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:14:04 -0500
From:         Angela Murphy-Walters <WALTERSAM@WCUVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Banned Computer Material

     I have just read an interesting message on ALF-L (Academic Librarians
Forum) on computer materials which have been banned from academic
institutions this year.  The message is too long to post here, but if you
are interested let me know and I'll try to send you a copy.  The message
includes information on how to get details of individual cases, as well as
a lost of related materials that might be of interest.  Many of the cases
involve sex-related BBS, a handful of others deal with rude or offensive
topics.  For example:

>Any computer files at Boston University that anyone else finds
>offensive or annoying
>     The rules at Boston University prohibit a computer user from "making
>     accessible offensive [or] annoying ... material".
>            news/cafv01n10
>
>All rude articles at Iowa State University

     (That should be a "list" of related materials in line 6.)  Other topics
censored, as well as censorship cases in other countries are included.

      Hope this message isn't rude or annoying!       Angela Murphy-Walters
                                                      WALTERSAM@WCUVAX.1
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:55:37 -0700
From:         James Crosswhite <JCROSS@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Computer Travels

Wini,
  I'm glad you like the Travels. It was a real buzz to live for a week
with the view from 30,000 feet. Hope all is well at Wellesley.
  jim
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:12:02 -0500
From:         TWBATSON@GALLUA.BITNET
Subject:      Hiatus

I've set MBU at nomail and, after Friday, will be out of town until Oct. 19.
This is just in case anyone needs to get in touch with me.

Trent Batson
Gallaudet University
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:14:25 EDT
From:         rselfe@MTU.EDU
Subject:      Campus-wide e-mail

>
>On the other hand, the "English Lab," as it's usually called is in some
>danger of losing its identity.  As manager of my lab, I will have to rely
>more than I have so far on Computer Services people for technical
>support and direction (a burden I would gladly give up in certain
>areas).

Gordon,
Say hello to Fritz for me.  We saw our first few flakes today.
In the best of all worlds, the CS people should be part of your team, IF
they agree to your departmental objectives.  That's often the rub.  If they
are willing to have someone live with you locally, in your building,
listening to your daily problems and dedicated to making it work locally
and campus wide, then go for it.


>We also plan to end restricting our users to only those students
>taking English courses.  Although we will still be able to schedule classes
>to meet in the lab, obviously the pressure to use them as an open lab or
>even (heaven forbid!) for ANOTHER DEPARTMENT's classes to come in will
>inevitably increase.

This is a real problem.  We have been operating for years primarily as a
walk-in lab (80% of our users are from other majors) and having a swell
time.  But the change from one access level to another can be traumatic for
everyone.  We MAY have to move towards more classes and less walk-in time.
The opposite move.  It'll be a major change.  It seems impossible to do
both well.  What do others think?


Dickie Selfe              rselfe@mtu.edu
Humanities Dept.          906-487-3225
Michigan Technological U.
Houghton, MI   49931
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Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 06:48:35 HST
From:         James Shimabukuro <JAMESS@UHUNIX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

Re Imitatio

I share Jeff Galin's concerns.  What exactly are we proposing? The formulary
rhetoric of people like  Fullwood, Clarke, Horne?

Jim Shimabukuro
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:44:05 EDT
From:         mer <MROSE01@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

Johndan:

               Very interesting thread goin' here!

          I would disagree with your assertion that students involved
          in the microstructural material are *ignoring* the macrostructural
          dimensions.  Given what we know about the brain and perception since
          Merleau-Ponty, and given the connectionist paradigm, it doesn't
          matter that the *I* ignores those larger structures--if the *I* is
          multiple, with multiple acts of perception occurring simultaneously,
          unbeknownst to the fictive, unified ego claiming the status of *I*.
                                                                 transcribe and
          Honest, Johndan and Jeff.  I'm not advocating students^memorize the
          literary version of Coltrane's solo on *Giant Steps*, *instead of*
          generating and organizing their own ideas.  You know that about me
          better than anyone, Johndan!
                                                                       about
          All I'm saying is that when*I*did that, I learned a lot more^soloing
          than the ability to imitate Trane's flights through rapidly changing
          tonal centers. Not anything that I could put my finger on at the time
          though.  But maybe that's not what's important.

                                                         mer
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:17:48 CDT
From:         Ellen Redding Kaler <KALER@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      More Reading--New in Print

Does anyone know the new book edited by Myron Tuman entitled
_Literacy Online: The Promise and Peril of Reading and Writing
with COmputers_?  It is reviewed in PMC (Post Modern Culture) 3.1
Sept. 92 (also available as an electronic journal on bitnet).

How can we keep up?
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:30:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Mail problems (1)

Date:         Thu, 01 Oct 1992 05:25:34 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-id:   <1992Oct01.052534.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Mail problems (1)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

The Digest and all mail going through this account (r0mill01@ulkyvx) has
become subject to some heavy delays and sporadic delivery.  Some mail is
now getting through a week or more after being sent.  Some Digests are also
being delayed in the local mail spooler, and/or being dropped entirely from
the spooler without returning an error.  I have a message out to the SYSTEM
to discuss the problem, but I wanted to warn readers that they may receive
issues out of order; issues may back up and all come in on the same day;
and messages sent in reply may get here a week or more after being mailed.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience this may cause, and assure that I am
attempting to fix the problem.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology

------------------------------
From: RONRON@USU.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Basic writing, one more time
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:44:01 GMT
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Karen -- The best treatment on the subject that I know of is Pat hartwell's
"Grammar, Grammars, and the Teaching of Grammar,"  in (damn I forget --
either _CCC_ or _CE_ somewhere in the 80's).

  For the other side, you
might try Kolln's "Closing the Doors on Alchemy,"  in one of the same
two journals.  I think her arguments are weak, but I have to preserve the
appearance of fairness.  Ron Shook (ronron@usu)
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Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:11:00 EST
From:         "JEFFREY R. GALIN" <GALIN@PITTVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

Martin,
        Just curious.  WHat level of writing was your most recent
message of Jazz theory addressed to.  Your line "Jazz is simply is so
complex . . ." suggests to me a level of expertice in writing and
thinking about the precesses of writing at a rather advanced level.
Somehow I don't think this is what you intended.  Any thoughts on a
pedagogy?
jrg
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Organization: Samford University Writing Programs
X-Acknowledge-To: <DHROBERT@SAMFORD>
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 08:18:19 CDT
From:         "David H. Roberts" <DHROBERT@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: programming as foreign language

My PhD-granting institution accepted my programming experience on
mainframes as my second language more than 10 years ago.  Thank goodness
I didn't have to learn german or latin or something useless.

   __________________________________________
   David H. Roberts
   Director of University Writing Programs
   Samford University
   Birmingham, AL 35229-2207 USA
   Voice: (205) 870-2964; Fax: (205) 870-2384
   Bitnet:  DHROBERT@SAMFORD
   _______________________________________________
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:15:03 MST
From:         "(Doyle Burke)" <BURKE@MC.BITNET>
Subject:      Class size

At Mesa Community College, enrollment is composition courses are
thus:

        ENG 061 (developmental English)         23
        ENG 071 (developmental English)         23

        ENG 101 (Freshman English)              26
        ENG 102 (Freshman English)              26

        ENG 107 (ESL Freshman English)          23
        ENG 108 (ESL Freshman English)          23

We don't have the economic pressures that California schools
have, but we are cutting sections.  Thus far, the administration
has supported current class sizes for composition.


Doyle Burke
Mesa Community College (AZ)
Burke@MC
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:59:12 CDT
From:         eric hobson <EHH909F@SMSVMA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, one more time

David:
    Have you thought about sending the letter/article to Christina Murphy for
Compositions Studies/Freshman English News? That journal is receptive to
editorial-like letters/articles/essays.  Just a thought.

      Eric Hobson--Southwest Missouri State U
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Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 14:57:33 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Imitatio

 *** Reply to note of 10/04/92 10:16
 I agree the the word-to-sentence-to-paragraph-to-essay sequence doesn't work
 very well. It doesn't really resemble any language acquisition model. THe
 narrative=to-expository-to-discipline/specific may work a little better. God
 knows, there are enough comp textbooks and programs built on that model.
 (There is evidence from 2nd language acquisition studies that suggests a
 student can become highly proficient in a disciplinary area but be unable to
 shift contexts and maintain that level of proficiency--called hot house
 Harry's by OPI folks). I have suggested elsewhere our assignments should move
 students from narrative and describing to solving problems, explaining,
 supporting opinion, hypothesizing; from concrete to abstract topics; from
 familiar to unfamiliar subject matter and situations; from experience-based to
 data-based writing; from informal to formal contexts and audiences; from
 narrower to broaders demands on socio-cultural awareness; from basic syntactic
 structures to less frequent and more complex structures required by more
 complex tasks; from concrete diction to more abstract vocabluary. And there
 are a few other wrinkles, I suppose. In our curriculum, we do not spend a lot
 of time on narratives for familiar and informal audiences on familiar topics.
 Most students (including basic writers) can do that. The object of our
 curriculum is to get them over the hump implicit in the from-to list above.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 12:45:00 EST
From:         BECKY RICKLY <00RJRICKLY@BSUVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Writing Program Size

Lisa,
Here at Ball State, the two freshperson writing courses (one
composition, one composition and literature, both required) have a
limit of 25 students (24 for computer-assisted courses).  The
two-semester requirement for students needing more personal/intensive
instruction is capped at 18, and all of these are computer-assisted.
As far as I know, the 25 student limit applies to junior/senior
writing courses and writing intesive courses, though other departments
control the latter.



Becky Rickly
Ball State University
00RJRICKLY@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:30:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      interpretive strategies

Jeff Maxson say, quite reasonably,

>But that's also why I'm wary of the notion of other students in the class as
>the primary audience for other students--I teach in a Daedalused classroom and
>just read Fred ( & whose?) chapter in Carolyn Handa's book last night.  Sure,
>they can act as critical, better yet sympathetic readers, but ultimately what
>will best prepare my (freshperson) students for further work at the university
>are models of successful student essays and the tips and critiques I can give
> them.

Jeff, my contention is, and I think it fits in with the idea that
"theory" isn't a good thing to stress to freshpersons in a
writing course, is that the principal decisions of the writer are
not made from top-down structures, or if they are, the writing is
ultimately cold-blooded.  A "text-sharing" classroom allows the
criteria for good writing to be ingested as "interpretive
criteria" for the reader.  We teach the writer how to read and
improve student texts, lots of them, constantly.  The assumption
is that such interpretive skills must, inevitably, be brought to
bear when the "reader" returns to revising her own writing.

John B. expressed it better than I did.  My understanding of what
he was saying is that people learn as experience, as a persistent
solving of small problems which usually build into behavioral
tendencies.  But no behaviorist or teacher can manipulate that
accumulative behavior, either by controlling stimuli or by
forcing prescriptions.  For what results is just a mimicking of
behavior.  You can get kids to stand in line that way, and
perform courteous actions (to a point), but writing, good
writing, is too complex and personal to be developed from models.
It's not that I wouldn't love to be able to teach that way;  it's
just that the only ones who can effectively appropriate models
are probably those who would write well no matter what.  The
others who need to really change their writing can't and won't
see it.

Better, I think, to see writing as built by experience and
feedback, lots of it, and have the teacher provide fewer rules
and models and more of a writing and publishing environment.

Fred Kemp, TTU
From: WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU (Wes Chapman)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Basic writing, again and again
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:06:15 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Ron--
   Re New Age's lack of structure and closure--that depends on who you're
talking about, but yes, I think in general you're right.  At worst, this can
result in some intensely boring, repetitive music; I'd be the first to say
that there's some NA music that makes me gag, precisely because of its self-
indulgent shapelessness.  BUT--lack of closure, open-endedness, that's part
of the point of New Age music; the living-in-the-present feel of NA is part
of its political and (here foot goes in mouth) spiritual statement.  I would
not by any means claim that such leftover-60's spirit is for everyone; I often
have doubts myself.  But I would say that it is importatnt to recognize the
relative formlessness of NA music as a aesthetic and political _choice_, not
as an artistic failure.
still bearded after all these years,
 Wes
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Date:         Thu, 24 Sep 1992 10:29:00 CST
From:         GOS@UHDBIT.BITNET
Subject:      writing centers

I
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Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 02:45:54 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

 *** Reply to note of 10/03/92 16:31
 I guess if we have students copy or imitate, we just ought to be sure that the
 texts they copy or imitate are broadly representative of the political
 spectrum. But this objection to using imitatio sounds to me like a objection
 to reading altogether. When we assign reading, I assume that doing so sends the
 message to the student that we think the text is worth reading.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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From: RONRON@USU.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: class size
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:13:37 GMT
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Lisa -- At Utah State, maximum size for freshman comp is 25, for upper division
classes 20.  We actually bleed a little above those at initial registration
because we're bursting at the seams.  Actually, I'd prefer to have
the beginning classes at 20 and the advanced classes at 25, but noone
listens to me. Ron Shook
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 08:40:10 -0600
From:         RONRON@USU.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

Johndan -- re imitatio and schema theory.  Sorry for being unclear.
There are several levels of imitatio, from out and out memorization
to using macro- or even superstructures. I think Grimes discusses this
in _The thread of discourse_.  Let's assume, though, that the student
is involved in "brute-force repetition."  The kicker here is that
higher level schemata are not ignored.  They are simply not consciously
learned.  They are, however, _acquired_ as part of our procedural
competence.  We learn to do them, but not to discuss them. Ron Shook
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 00:16:25 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Announcement. . . .

 *** Reply to note of 09/28/92 18:59
 Someone tell Eric Hobson to unsuscribe from WPA-L and resubscribe from his new
 gig. Every time a message goes out on WPA-L, I get an "unable to deliver"
 message from Listserv at Tennessee. But be sure to resubscribe Eric, and
 congrats on the new job.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 09:25:35 EDT
From:         Roni Keane <VKEANE@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Welcome Mike Hassett!
              26 Sep 1992 19:22:28 CDT from <S2.RSB@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU>

Hi, Mike!

         --Roni
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:41:46 EST
From:         "(Jim Porter)" <jporter@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      re: what is critical thinking
              92 11:49 am

>              This issue of phronesis is very interesting, because it
>              asks/presumes what are the structures, within the domain
>              of ethos, that enact prudential thought constrained by
>              the rhetorical situation.
>              [...]
>              What will determine, then, the function if not the being
>              of phronesis--as it must necessarily engage the operations
>              of rhetorical invention in response to a given circumstance,
>              as the means of persuasion are gathered?

Martin ... If I understand your question--and I'm not at all sure I
do--then it seems like you're wondering whether phronesis is a
foundational concept something akin to consciousness ("the being of
phronesis"?).  Does phronesis presume cognitive structures that are
determining of and/or prior to rhetorical situation?
[Is that a close approximation to what you're asking?]

I guess that would depend on whose construction of phronesis we're
referring to.  I don't see it as foundational or determining in
Aristotle's _Nicomachean Ethics_. It's more like phronesis is a
construct that he extrapolates out of the system he constructs: i.e.,
phronesis attempts to account for the gaps in the system.  It is _not_
the starting point for rhetorical invention, in other words--but it
suggests a philosophy about how rhetorical invention ought to
proceed: i.e., not rule bound but not open-ended either.  You
get a slightly different notion of phronesis in Louise Phelps' work.

All of this has something to do with composition instruction, though
as the theory becomes more abstruse that "something" becomes harder
to grasp.  I think the "something" is something like this: you need
to teach inventional strategies in composition, but you need to
teach it in a certain way that accommodates both the circumstances
of rhetorical situation and the faculty of critical judgment.  NOT
that either or any is the determining or foundational factor ...
but they are factors.  At least that's how the argument might go.

--------------------
Jim Porter
Purdue University
jporter@mace.cc.purdue.edu
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