HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:48:40 GMT

In <1992Dec28.225315.6187@siemens.com> aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:


>>A septic tank is a "solid" cement tank. It of course does leak like all
>>concrete does, to some extent.

>What I'm really worried about is polluting.  If this tank is supposed to be
>solid, then why doesn't it fill up very, very quickly?

The sewage doesn't run into the tank and just stay there.  The
tank may or may not leak, depending on how it's made.  A lot of
new systems use fiberglass tanks instead of concrete, since the
fiberglass tanks are a lot easier to handle -- two construction
workers can carry a 1,000 gallon tank and position it in its hole
without too much trouble.  Most of the sewage leaves the tank the
way it is supposed to, into the drain field, unless your tank is
damaged.

The sewage runs into the tank and sits for a while.  Anaerobic
bacteria digest most of the biological wastes, leaving a small
percentage of insoluble crud that either sinks to the bottom or
floats to the top.  The liquid left in the middle is relatively
clear.  The amount of solids depends a lot on what you put in
your tank.  In-sink disposals are a major source of non-
digestible crud, so composting is a very good idea if you're on a
septic system.  Other ways people crud up their tanks include
flushing whole boxes full of cat litter, which never dissolves,
and flushing plastics such as cigarrette butts, tampons &
applicators, condoms, etc.  If it won't rot, don't flush it.

From the tank, the cleaned sewage trickles into a drain field
where it is exposed to air, killing the anaerobic bacteria and
allowing aerobic bacteria to complete the rotting process.
Killing the anaerobic bacteria also reduces the risk of disease.

In a properly designed system, the effluent will be safe to drink
after only a few yards of soil filtration.  For safety, and
because lots of installations are far from perfect, health codes
usually set much greater boundaries, often 50 or 100 feet,
between drain fields and fresh water / wells.

A properly functioning septic system will take care of all common
household wastes.  A malfunctioning system can cause serious
problems.  If your tank leaks a lot, unprocessed sewage with a
full load of anaerobic bacteria can enter your water table.  A
drain field that is below the water table will do much the same.
Inadequate soil around the drain field will not provide enough
filtration to remove microscopic particulates and other
contaminants.   

If you have any doubts, get your system inspected and your water
tested.  It's cheaper to fix it than to clean up the consequences
of long-term malfunctions.
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
From: system@coldbox.cojones.com (Bryan Lockwood)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Wood Heating
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 13:02:08 -0900
Reply-To: system@cojones.com
Organization: The Generation Gap

In <1992Dec30.154843.6096@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes:

> The only way to keep furniture from
>splitting in a winter climate like New England is to have some sort of
>automatic humidifier that is capable of maintaining an even humidity. 
>We tried it one winter with a clumsy beast that had a cloth wrapped
>wheel slowly spinning in a tray of water and a fan to blow it out.  It
>was undependable, noisy and kept us up nights, not to mention the
>electrical usage.  We never tried anything else although there are
>"sonic" humidifiers I've seen now that may do a better job.

A simple "rural" humidifier we've used here in the Arctic (where it gets
VERY dry in winter):

Pot or tub of water on stove. Towel suspended in water (bottom of towel
should almost, but not quite, touch the bottom of the water container) 
to wick the water up into the air where the heat makes it evaporate.

That pot of water on the stove is handy for many things anyhow: a quick
place to warm your hands when you've gotten them cold, etc. This system is 
simple, silent, economical, and it works for me. I guess the only drawback 
is the unsightliness, if you are concerned by such things (I'm not!).

I suppose you could even experiment with controlling the amount of humidity
generated by varying the surface area of the towel and/or rigging a cover
for the water container.

-- 
-Bryan Lockwood (system@cojones.com)  (1@501 WWIVnet)
"Into the trough of digital overkill I dove, raucously snorting
  and oinking."
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri)
Subject: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:21:29 GMT


I recently moved into a place that gets water from a well, and dumps it into
a septic tank.  What concerns should I have about using the water from the
well?  The landlord says that it goes through a "neutralizer", but just what
that means isn't clear.  What concerns should I have about detergents and
such that I use that end up in the septic tank?
-- 

======================================================================8--<
From: billf@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Bill Faus)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:00:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Dragging Logs
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: misc.rural

A few suggestions:

   Trim the logs to the minimum length required for milling.

   Hire a local logger to rip the logs into halves or quarters.

   Run an overhead skyline and use block and tackle.

   Wait until the ground is frozen and the logs skid
   much easier.  Also, build a skid of some sort to
   keep the ends of the logs up off the ground.

  
An interesting artifact I saw the other day was an antique
stump puller.  Essentially a hand-powered winch which was
cabled to a tree, and then another cable was run through a ratchet
and pulley and connected to the stump. A 10' (or longer) pole 
was inserted into the gadget and you (and perhaps your friends) 
pushed the pole about in a large circle.  The owner said it 
could easily pull out 24" diameter stumps.  (Or course, you
need some stout cable for this to work!)

-bill
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence)
Subject: Re: Dragging Logs
Organization: Maple Lawn Farm, Stonington, CT
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 12:55:00 GMT

Jim Baranski writes:

   What's the best method for dragging logs?  Tractor?  Horse?  Other?
   What size tactor would I need to drag logs?  [...]  How much HP
   would I need?  Would a 'garden' 20 HP tractor do it?

Garden tractors generally don't have the clearance to haul logs.  A
boom crane and chain on a small farm tractor (Ford-8n, JD-40,
Farmall-H) will do the job.  The trick is to keep the load down to the
point where your front wheels still touch the ground.  You _can_ steer
with brakes while doing a wheelie, but it isn't the best technique.

An alternative is a logging winch on the 3-point hitch.  You might be
able to borrow or rent one.  

Finally, on rough or soft ground, animals do the best job.  We have a
neighbor who has gotten his tractor stuck hauling logs, and extricated
it with a pair of oxen.

   How many of what size logs can I expect to be able to haul with a
   F150 in the truck bed?  How many in a heavy duty trailer could the
   straight-6 F150 pull in a trailer instead of in the bed?  

Small pickups can carry and haul far more than their rated loads.  The
question is how long you expect the transmission and tires to last and
how slowly you're willing to drive.  I'd think trailering, with a
cooler on the transmission, would be a lot better for the pickup than
trying to haul logs in the bed.
-- 

				Ronald Florence
				ron@mlfarm.com
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Date: 1 Jan 93 03:59:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Dec30.155322.29352@siemens.com> aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
>>or paints.  Minimal grease.  Low or zero phosphate detergents.

>I've been using the Arm & Hammer stuff because it doesn't have itchy enzymes.
>I *think* it's low phosphate, but I don't think the box lists the content.

A&H is mostly or completely Borax I think...

>>Even with pilot lights, they're burning far fewer fossil fuels than an electric
>>stove does in the power plant that's supplying it.

>Agreed -- what really concerns me, though, is that one of them will go out and
>spit methane into my apartment.  My mother had a stove with "electronic"
>ignition something like 25 years ago, and I'd never *seen* one with a pilot
>until about a year and a half ago.

I've never seen an electronic one...

With two pilots, both would have to go out before problems arise...

I *think* they have thermal interlocks, so that if the pilots go out, the
gas shuts off.  Gas furnaces certainly do.  Look for what appears to be a thick
bare wire running around where the pilot is.

>>>I find it out when the pump drops the voltage throughout the electrical web.

>>Probably not.  The pump will either just shut itself off, or make a smelly,
>>hot and loud sound as it leaves this earth.

>The place also has a shitty electrical system.  When the well pump (or the
>compressor in the fridge) turns on, the lights dim and the TV glitches.

That ain't all that unusual.
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
From: sjuniper@igc.apc.org (Steve Juniper)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: q
Date: 30 Dec 92 05:43:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1427600005:000:142
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!sjuniper    Dec 29 21:43:00 1992


Does anyone have 1) information about use of straw bales in 
residential construction - homes ? or 2) Direct experience with
same?

tks

John
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: mick@sequent.com (Micah R. O'Halloran)
Subject: Wanted source for recycled plastic fence posts
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 21:35:13 GMT


I have a friend who is raising sheep and (angora) goats and is looking
for recycled plastic fence posts to replace some of the wood ones that
have "gone bad". He and I both remember hearing about some that you
can cut, paint, drill and otherwise work like wood that were UV
stabilized and were expected to last 30 years or so.

So, does anyone know of a source for such? Ideally, he'd like a place
he could walk into and see before he bought (which would limit it
pretty close to Oregon), but a reputable mail order house would be
O.K., too.

Thanks!

-Mick
mick@sequent.com

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 18:59:02 GMT

In article <725166229snx@tillage.DIALix.oz.au> gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
>
>It seems nobody has yet discussed the desirability of digging a set of
>tracks for the bogged wheels to follow, and jacking the vehicle up to
>place some sort lining under the wheels (ie, leafy branches, sticks,
>grass bundles) allowing them to get traction to start with.

Ok, I'll discuss it.  Taking a vehicle off-road is bad enough, but
then cutting limbs to but under the wheels is a bit more destructive
than I care to be.  Especially when towing works fairly well in most
cases.  The other point is that jacking the wheels up and placing
stuff under them is a lot of work.  Generally more so than even
hand-winching. 

>The whole strategy is to get all *eight* wheels working together such
>that "transient loads" are managed within a total drive system powered
>by *both* engines available, with the chain or strap merely serving as
>the link between them.

No one's disputing that.  The problem is that when you have 2 4000lb+
vehicles connected your talking about a *lot* of inertia.  When towing
(or winching) even when everything is going smoothly the transient
loads can be very high.

>There is no point *whatever* relying on either a chain or a strap under
>the load levels unduced by one vehicle trying to yank another vehicle out
>of a bog. What identifies "the overenthusiastic hero" is no brains . . .

This shows that you don't know a lot about what you speak.  Someone
who knows what they are doing, and has appropriate equipment can be
very effective at extracting stuck vehicles under *many* different
circumstances, using *many* techniques.  Your last sentence, though,
seems to be unfortunately largely true.

-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Chief of Tranquility  #My Opinions! NotIU's!#Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Base, Lawrence Co. IN # Legalize Explosives!#nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # Somewhere out on the  # Politicians prefer  #family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over# unarmed peasants.   #Space For Rent
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:58:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.212129.27007@siemens.com> aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
>
>I recently moved into a place that gets water from a well, and dumps it into
>a septic tank.  What concerns should I have about using the water from the
>well?  The landlord says that it goes through a "neutralizer", but just what
>that means isn't clear.

You can get the water tested easily enough. Here it's free. We own our
house, got the water tested as part of the purchase, and retest it once
a year. Since you are renting you could insist on the landlord testing
it before you renew your lease, but testing it yourself is not hard.

>What concerns should I have about detergents and
>such that I use that end up in the septic tank?

Are you worried you'll wreck it? If there was anything you could do
that would wreck it, the landlord would have told you not to do it.
If you're worried about the environment in general, you'd have to
know more about your tank setup. Chances are it's to code and you
can just live your life.

I grew up with well/septic, moved to the city for ten years or so,
and now I'm back on well/septic. I don't do anything any differently
in terms of laundry, watering the garden, showers, or anything else.
I just live my life as always. Some people have wells that can't support
heavy watering or five loads of laundry in a row, but you'll find
that out lickety-split when you run out of water :-). Don't worry,
it will come back.

Kate
From: hallinan@zeus.harvard.edu (Peter W. Hallinan)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Septic systems and toilet paper
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:28:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: zeus.HALLINAN.92Dec30132803
Distribution: na
Organization: Harvard Robotics Lab, Harvard University

All the posts on septic systems have me wondering...
Does toilet paper actually degrade in the septic tank, or
is it really the main ingredient of the solids that have to be
periodically pumped out?
--

Peter W. Hallinan			Division of Applied Sciences
hallinan@hrl.harvard.edu		Harvard University
					Cambridge, MA  02138
From: aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Date: 28 Dec 92 22:53:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ


>A septic tank is a "solid" cement tank. It of course does leak like all
>concrete does, to some extent.

What I'm really worried about is polluting.  If this tank is supposed to be
solid, then why doesn't it fill up very, very quickly?
-- 

======================================================================8--<
From: Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:25:16 GMT
 <1992Dec29.155822.17569@trentu.ca>  
 <1992Dec29.185522.17568@siemens.com>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Dec29.185522.17568@siemens.com>
aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:

> No, I'm worried about polluting the environment.  I don't know enough about
> septic tanks to worry about it specifically.
> 
> > If there was anything you could do
> >that would wreck it, the landlord would have told you not to do it.
> 
> Well, the landlord let me believe that the gas stove was reasonable, but I
> see now that it has a pair of pilots burning.  I don't truse landlords.
> 
> >I just live my life as always. Some people have wells that can't support
> >heavy watering or five loads of laundry in a row, but you'll find
> >that out lickety-split when you run out of water :-).
> 
> I find it out when the pump drops the voltage throughout the electrical web.

Antony, I've been living in Vermont for 17 years, we have a septic
tank/leech field and gas stove.  I don't understand what your concern
is.  The Septic Tank system works fine as long as you pump the tank out
every three years or so.  This may be overkill but the consequences of
not pumping it out are that the solids build up and prevent normal flow
to occur.  As to the gas stove, you imply that having gas pilots is
somehow improper.  It's worked for us for 17 years.  I'd rather have a
pilotless gas stove but I don't and the one we have works fine (use it
up, wear it out, make it do or do without).  As to the voltage drop,
again I don't understand.  Isn't that what happens when the pump turns
on and creates a momentary draw?  What's the problem with that?  It
isn't blowing fuses is it?

Corky Scott
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: wilsenac@farm.mpr.ca (I'd Rather Be Farming...)
Subject: Re: Ground Source Heat Pumps
Reply-To: wilsenac@farm.mpr.ca
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 18:04:02 GMT


In article 221292075027@3.1.100.11, Ligon@macgw1.ge.com (Woody Ligon) writes:
>> My wife and I are about to start renovation of an old farmhouse in central
>> Virginia. We are strongly considering using a ground source heat pump for
>> heating/cooling. (Ground temp 58 F)  Does anyone have first hand experience
>> with one of these beasts? How about a review article/list of manufacturers?


   I recall a past issue of Popular Science which had a technology review
of ground/air source heat pumps.  They reviewed the science as well as several
available products.  Sorry, but I don't recall the date or issue, but at least
it`s a starting point for you...

   The just of the article(s) was that ground source heat pumps were effective
year round, but were fairly expensive to install relative to other heating
solutions.  Air source heat pumps were highly rated as their cost was considerably
less than ground source heat pumps, but the drawback being that air source heat
pumps significantly lose their effectivness as the temperature drops too far below
the freezing mark. 

     __ 
     | o    ~ ~   "I'd rather be farming..." 
     L_|->____I_   
   _/   \_|    |   Henry H. Wilsenack, UNIX/VMS Systems Administrator
  [L| O |______|   MPR Teltech Ltd, Burnaby, BC, Canada  V5A 4B5
...\___/    (o)   wilsenac@mprgate.mpr.ca         (604)293-5478
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Date: 1 Jan 93 04:33:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Dec31.080508.8720@mtu.edu> pecampbe@mtu.edu (Paul Campbell) writes:
>>> all the power on the grid is nuke or hydro. No pollution 
>>>released into the environment at all. I realize that this is not true
>>>in many places.

>Hmm..sounds like upstate New York, where they are making a real mess out of
>Quebec province I believe (can't remember exactly which one) by totally
>messing up the streams and the local wild life..whether or not this is
>environmental damage depends on how you feel about it..most Canadians in
>the area are not too happy. Not sure if it's just because they aren't
>sharing in the wealth or if there's a real problem going on.

That's a rather odd way of putting it.  The James Bay/Churchill falls
projects are submerging thousands of square miles of Cree homeland.
The Quebec government is doing it all by itself.  Even NY's recent
balk at buying more electricity because of heavy native lobbying over
the land issue isn't likely to stop Quebec from commencing more hydro
projects in the area.

No pollution from nukes?  You ever hear of a place called "Chernobyl"?
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: Wood Heating
Summary: air vs. water
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:39:09 GMT

I'm no expert on heating, but can't help wondering why forced-air is all the
rage nowadays for central heating systems.  Seems to me, a little pipe
carrying hot water is a lot easier to find room for than a great big duct.
And you can use baseboard heaters instead of cast-iron radiators if you want.
If you're installing wood heat, you might want to look into wood-fired boilers,
or dual-fuel wood/oil boilers.  There are several manufacturers making these.
Let me know if you want names, and I'll dig 'em up.  Robert Enenkel