From: robinson@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Letter to John Robinson
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:05:54 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Jul20.212048.24313@informix.com>, proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:
> In article <1992Jul17.110048.6563@ac.dal.ca> robinson@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>In article <1992Jul16.161229.20082@clpd.kodak.com>, black@che.serum.kodak.com (Robert Black (x37236)) writes:
>>> In article <1992Jul14.112456.6502@ac.dal.ca> robinson@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>>>In article <1992Jul13.174125.41518@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, dreamer@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (David Caruso II ~~~) writes:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> John Robinson wrote to David Caruso II:
>>>>......  Would you think more highly of hunters if they dragged their 
>>>>heels as they went into the woods, reluctant to dicharge a distateful 
>>>>duty?
>>> 
>>> 				YES
>>
>>Well some people think that one shouldn't have fun dancing, one shouldn't 
>>have fun drinking, and one definately shouldn't have fun in the bedroom.  In 
>>fact, when one digs a little deeper, such people feel that no one should ever 
>>have fun doing much of anything.  Are you one of these people?
>>
> 
> Well, this question wasn't addressed to me, but since it was addressed
> to someone who said something I agree with, here's my 2c worth:
> 
> I am all in favour of people having fun, I am just rather perturbed
> when that fun appears to be had at the price of pain, distress, violence
> and death inflicted on unwilling participants.

Well, I don't know of any hunters who willingly cause their prey pain and 
distress.  Does it happen sometimes?  Of course.  But pain, distress, 
violence and death are all a part of life.  I do not feel that I need a 
deer's permission to eat it.  I do not feel that it need be a willing 
participant.  I think that big part of what is missing from many ARFs is a 
little faith in the goodness of humankind.  Most people will do what they 
think is right.  They may need a little peer pressure, or a gentle reminder 
now and then, but most people are basically trying to do the right thing.  
There will always be 1-2% that are making life hell for the rest.  I feel 
that many of the attitudes and opinions that ARFs have of hunters are 
formed on the basis of the actions of these 1-2%.  The same could probably 
be said of hunter's views of ARFs.

Based on my observations here and elsewhere, many ARFs seem to feel that 
hunting=killing and that therefore enjoying hunting = enjoying killing.

> 
> 
>>I take a different view.  For me, it is not important to do work that I 
>>enjoy.  It is important for me to be able to find aspects of my work that I 
>>do enjoy.  Fun is where you find it.  It seems absurd to me to suggest that 
>>people should spend their leisure time doing something they don't enjoy.
> 
> I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to suggest that people       
> "should spend their leisure time doing something they don't enjoy" (does
> this concept even make any sense? - if I was doing something I didn't
> enjoy, I wouldn't call that a leisure activity, would I?).

Well, one person, Robert Black, already seems to have suggested just that.  
That was the whole point of asking the question in the first place.  No one 
in their right mind in today's society is going to spend their leisure time 
doing something that they don't enjoy.  That doesn't mean that they enjoy 
100% of it.  While going to the beach is fun, getting sand in the car, 
towels, house, shoes, hair and so on can be a drag.  The kill is the 
culmination of the hunt, it rarely lasts more than a few seconds.  They are 
usually far from the most pleasent moments of a hunt.  While I don't 
particularly enjoy killing an animal per se, I do feel very pleased and 
content to know that I've killed it cleanly.  I wish to eat it, not torture 
it.

> 
> 
>>
>>People who suggest that one should not enjoy any recreational activity are 
>>silly.
> 
> I don't think anyone is saying that. 

Well, both David Caruso and Robert Black have suggested that one should not 
enjoy hunting and hunting is a recreational activity, therefore there exist 
recreational activities that people have suggested should not be enjoyed. 
:-)

-- 
John Robinson                  Only criminals, tyrants, and cowards have
robinson@ac.dal.ca                 reason to fear the armed, honest citizen.
DOD #0069
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals