From: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu (Walter Lee)
Subject: Re: Anarchy in Somalia
Reply-To: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, MI
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:18:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.204150.16577@cbnews.cb.att.com>, lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes:
>Note followups.
>
>In article <1993Jan22.005434.29000@vela.acs.oakland.edu> w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu writes:
>>In article <1993Jan20.235312.18675@cbnews.cb.att.com>, lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes:

>>>It's not the lack of government which is the source of immorality.
>>>It's what happens when people realize they can get away with just
>>>about anything and not be punished for it.  That's the way a lot of
>>>people are.
>>
>>Is that the way you are?  Would you misbehave if you realized you could
>>get away with just about anything and not be punished for it?
>
>Read what I said.  That's the way a /lot/ of people are, e.g., Ted Bundy,
>or Adoph Hitler or Joseph Stalin, pick any sociopath.

My point is that the government can't restrain Ted Bundy without restraining
YOU.  Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin, of course, WERE the government.

>>Is having the guerrilla on my side (as opposed to the side of the propertied
>>elite) a real possibility?  If not, why should I show any allegiance to it?
>
>I did say "more or less."  What would you do if you were assaulted or
>your property was stolen ?  You can try to talk with the attacker if you
>want, but I'll go to the police.

What if the attacker is the police?

>>>That is why people value government, warts and all.
>>
>>So accept it, warts and all; but don't expect it to count you as an adult
>>capable of self-government.
>
>No kidding.
>
>>By accepting fear of punishment as your protection you also accept it
>>as your own moral compass.
>
>Wrong, it's just a way to survive.  Don't pay taxes the gov't says you owe;
>see where it gets you.  If you prefer to live in jail go for it.

The above statement is a justification (accepted by some) for paying taxes.  No
more.  No less.

>>Government is NOT a means by which honest people protect themselves from
>>dishonest people.
>
>Like hell it isn't; unfortunately, it is also abused by bad people and
>used for inappropriate purposes.

In other words, you can say with a straight face that government (when used
appropriately) is effectively in the hands of honest people?

>>It is a "service" offered by the "profession of arms" (and the financiers
>>who are in a position to broker that profession) to anyone who is willing
>>to surrender their individual conscience and accept authority as the
>>standard of right/wrong.
>
>Snore.

In plainer English... by consenting to be governed, you trade freedom & dignity
for protection.  I question whether the benefits justify the costs.  Not having
to worry about muggers when you walk alone at night is a small consolation when
there's a general curfew in force...  and the statist quo seems to combine the
worst of both worlds.

>>OF COURSE life is relatively dangerous if you don't.  TANSTAAFL!
>
>ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walter Lee                                          w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu

Little progress can be made merely by repressing what is bad.  Our great
hope lies in developing what is good.