HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Darren Littlejohn <dlittlej@csulb.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: A new question....
Date: 25 Dec 1992 16:11:23 -0800
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

	I'm having trouble with the ideas of being the observer vs. being
the moment. If I am, for example, not to over identify with my feelings and
thoughts, but should see them as nonreality and just a creation of the mind,
then how does that reconcile with the notion of 'being' the experience as
it is in the moment? Ok, if it's listening to the sound of the brook, I
become egoless, no "I" involved, just the sound. I "am" the sound. No
separation. Then I have a thought about the brook. "Nice sound". Am I
one with the brook, but not the thought? Then there is a feeling. I feel
happy to be so lucky to be listening to a brook. It feels spiritual. Now what?
I am not the feeling? It's just a bodily reaction to a thought. Back to the 
sound of the brook now. That is reality. 
	This is really a question of basic practise. Clarify for me
if you can. Email is preffered. Also, how can I get on that Electronic Zendo?
I can't email the server directly. If you know the address, please send them
my request. 

dlittlej@csulb.edu



-- 
"The Harvests are plentiful, the laborers few" Jesus Christ

"what you're lookin' for, you're lookin' with!" Chuck C.
From: fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov (Tawit Chitsomboon)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Thai monk jailed for opposing logging
Date: 30 Dec 92 01:40:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47836
Distribution: world
Organization: Institute for Computational Mechanics in Propulsion

In article <1honrrINNe4l@sandman.caltech.edu> gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us 
(Gary S. Trujillo) writes:

>The following article was obtained from Inter Press Service via the
>worldwide Association for Progressive Communications.  I thought it
>might be of interest to readers of soc.religion.eastern.  If anyone
>knows more about this story, or has addresses of who to contact to
>protest this imprisonment and/or the underlying issue of logging in
>the rainforests of Thailand, please post a followup article.
>
>Gary

As a buddhist Thai, this fact is a double insult to me.
For maximum effect, i would suggest that open letters be written
to an English newspaper, The Bangkok Post. This is a very good
(and liberal) newspaper. The letter should be addressed to

  Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai   (a very dhammic-minded PM)


You can email letters directly to a BP's correspondence:

   Mr. Kamol Hengkietisak
   email:  kamol@ipied.tu.ac.th

(You can even ask for more news from him; he posts newsbriefs
regulary in soc.culture.thai)

   (if the email bounce, please contact me and i'll try to find
   other routes for you.)

-tawit:  fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: An old woman's gift to Buddha
Date: 25 Dec 1992 15:54:44 -0800
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <47575@ogicse.ogi.edu> vaisnavi@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us (vaisnavi) writes:
>
>    Buddha smiled at the King and then replied,  "Because,  King,
>she  gave  her  *all*,  while  the  rest  of  you  merely  gave a
>*fraction* of what you have."
>
>
> peace,
> vaisnavi.


While a case might be made for a theological interpretation of
Buddha's action (i.e. one must focus *wholeheartedly * on 
enlightenment in order to achieve it), there might be a simpler 
explanation. Buddhism, at least in the early stages, was a very
populist religion. In fact, the socially oppressed were drawn
to Buddhism in large numbers and represented a large number of
early converts. Maybe this story  was entered in the Buddhist
canons to highlight this.

There is a similar story, also from a Buddhist text, but I do
not know for sure which. I read it in verse from in a collection
of Bengali poems ("Katha o Kahini") by Rabindranath Tagore.
(Tagore uses stories and parables from Budhhist texts for a
large number of poems in this collection.) In this story, there
was a famine in Sravasti and the Budhha and his followers were   
trying to set up a relief committee to feed the starving. 
The Budhha asked any one of his followers to volunteer to
provide the necessary food. The wealthy disciples (such as
Joysen etc ) all opted out, stating that the task was beyond
their financial capability. Then one woman, a "vikku" (i.e
a Buddhist nun who lives on alms), the daughter of the vikku
Anathapindada, arose and accepted the task, stating that 
although she didn't have resources of her own to procure the 
food, she could mobilise the masses to start co-operative kitchens 
and relief centres, presumably on a socialist basis. This was
considered acceptable by the Buddha.

In many respects, the socialism of the early Buddhist organisations
and institutions recall, I think, that of the early Christian
sects. The pattern of conversion was also similar in the two
religions. It was always the downtrodden masses who were 
converted first, and the ruling class followed suit afterwards
(although in the case of Buddhism the conversion of the ruling
class happened pretty fast, during the Buddha's lifetime, 
unlike in Christianity). 

-Sayan.





-- 
Sayan Bhattacharyya          |   Colourless green ideas sleep furiously.
Graduate student             |
Artificial Intelligence Lab  |
The University of Michigan   |
From: bi757@cleveland.freenet.edu (Ed Stutsman)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: 4 Noble Truths
Date: 25 Dec 1992 16:15:37 -0800
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu


You have the suffering of temporariness, ie  it won't last.
When it's over, it will bw worse if you're not prepared.

But.......sounds like fun to me.....can I have your life????
-- 
    \ GEnie   E.Stutsman
     \ CIS    76066,1204
From: schiller@whorf.UCAR.EDU(Eric Schiller)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: 4 Noble Truths
Date: 30 Dec 92 23:49:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47838
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1hg77cINNa9l@sandman.caltech.edu> dprosser@titan.ucc.umass.edu  
(DANIEL W PROSSER) writes:

> 
> 	Actually, the original word that the Edwardian English
> translators gave as ``suffering''  was _dukkha_.  Personally, I
> think they were being a little too melodramatic.  I have also heard
> it translated as ``alienation'' or ``dissatisfaction'', which seems
> more to the point when taken together with the rest of the teachings.
> I'm not always suffering or in pain, but as long as I'm experiencing
> duality I am alienated.
I wouldn't be too quick to attack the translators. If you check
out translations in many languages the meaning does indeed come
across as 'suffering'. Khmer, for example, imported /dukkha/,
though the modern pronunciation is /tuk/ the spelling still
transliterates to the original Pali. The meaning clearly is
suffering in the primary uses of the work.

--
***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** ****
Sometimes my head is in the clouds of theory, but often it is just a fog.
My feet, meantime, tend to stay more or less on the ground. I think.
***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** ****
Eric Schiller                              schiller@sapir.uchicago.edu
Dept of Linguistics, Univ. of Chicago      schiller@whorf.uchicago.edu
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Intro to Sufism: Osho (1)
Date: 25 Dec 1992 16:15:11 -0800
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

9212.23 e.v. [Hapi KAos Day!!]

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
The word of Sin is Restriction.

                  ______________
                 /              \
               \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
                      OSHO (1)

Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh) was born in India.  He obtained a 
master's degree in philosophy and held the post of Professor of 
Philosophy until 1966.  He devoted the rest of his life and self 
to the spiritual awakening of others.  His writings encompass 
Zen, Sufism, Tantra and interfaith mysticism the world over.
The excerpt below is one of a series from his book on Sufism.
_____________________________________________________


There are religions and religions, but Sufism is *the* religion -
the very heart, the innermost core, the very soul.

Sufism is not part of Islam; rather, on the contrary, Islam is part
of Sufism.  Sufism existed before Mohammed ever was born, and Sufism
will exist when Mohammed is completely forgotten.  Islams come
and go; religions take form and dissolve; Sufism abides, continues,
because it is not a dogma.  It is the very heart of being religious.

You may not ever have heard of Sufism and you may be a Sufi - if you
are religious.  Krishna is a Sufi, and Christ too; Mahavir is a Sufi,
and Buddha too - and they never heard about the word, and they never
knew that anything like Sufism exists.

Whenever a religion is alive, it is because Sufism is alive within it.
Whenever a religion is dead, it shows only that the spirit, the Sufi
spirit, has left it.  Now there is only a corpse, however decorated -
in philosophy, metaphysics, in dogmas, doctrines - but whenever
Sufism has left, religion stinks of death.  This has happened many
times.  This is happening already almost all over the world.  One has
to be aware of it, otherwise one can go on clinging to a dead corpse.

_____________________________________________________________

>From _Journey Toward the Heart: Discourses on the Sufi Way_,
by Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh), Harper and Row, 1976; page 3.


Invoke me under my stars.   Love is the law, love under will.

I am I!

Frater (I) Nigris (666)
From: dlittlej@csulb.edu (Darren Littlejohn)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Buddha and Malunkya Putta
Date: 28 Dec 92 01:37:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47768
Distribution: world
Organization: Cal State Long Beach

[included article slighlty trimmed -a]

In article <1hg6s4INNa3c@sandman.caltech.edu> farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) writes:
>
>In article <47571@ogicse.ogi.edu>, abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>> 
>> So will the protagonists of Buddha tell us what questions (or what
>> kind of questions) are idle fancies and what are profitable exercises ?
>> This might sound a bit harsh, but I really wish to understand this
>> point. 
>
>The point is that certain questions are irrelevant to the issues the
>Buddha chose to teach on. He was a very practical teacher. His point
>is to teach one how to end suffering.
>
>Discussions of metaphysics are pure speculation, in the context of the
>Buddha's teaching. The Buddha could be considered the master of a
>particular technology of consciousness. 
>
>To ask him to discuss metaphysics would be like asking a master
>carpenter which gods help him in his craft. He would probably tell you
>that if you want to talk about gods, go to a priest. If you want to
>learn carpentry, then watch what I do and say. 
>
>Buddhism may have evolved into a religion, with its own metaphysics.
>But it was first and foremost practical technology for ending
>suffering.
>
>				-Lorenzo


	One thing that Ihave struggled with is the integration of several
sources to my overall growth plan. for example, my therapist agreed that
we would keep the work we do together focused on what comes up in zazen.
I bring my experience in Zen to AA meetings to help others focus on the
11th step "Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our concsious
contact with god as we understood him". A lot of AA members are real weak in
this area. But, that is another concern. Where is god in Zen? The reconcilation
I have come to is that I wil find ou what that is all about in practise. When
it is time to find out, I will. So, I read works by spiritual teachers
who have other views. My path is drawing from many sources, including Christ,
Yogananda and others. It can be confusing, but my attemps to find the common
threads and weave them all together into a workable life theory is an
amazing process. See, I don't trust ANY ONE TEACHING absolutely. And, I havent
trusted my own self so much either. So, the truth lies within, and what
commonalities exist among sources that stir up my spirit and motivate me
to practise are the mirrors of the truth. It may sound wacky, but it's
my path. 
-- 
"The Harvests are plentiful, the laborers few" Jesus Christ

"what you're lookin' for, you're lookin' with!" Chuck C.
From: vaisnavi@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us (vaisnavi)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: The parable of the raft
Date: 25 Dec 1992 15:53:47 -0800
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

 Buddha addressed his disciples:-

       "Monks, I will teach you Dhamma - the parable  of  raft  -
     for   getting  across,  not  for  retaining.  Listen  to  it
     carefully. It is like a man, monks, who going on  a  journey
     should  see  a  great stretch of water, the nearer bank with
     dangers and fears,  the  farther  bank  secure  and  without
     fears.  But  there  may neither be a boat for crossing over,
     nor  a bridge across for going from the  not-beyond  to  the
     beyond.  It  occurs  to him that in order to cross over from
     the perils of this bank to the security of the farther bank,
     he  should  design  a raft out of grass and sticks, branches
     and leaves, so that he could, striving with  his  hands  and
     feet  and depending on the raft, cross over to the beyond in
     safety.When he has made the raft ready and has crossed  over
     to  the beyond, it occurs to him that the raft has been very
     useful and he wonders if he ought to proceed taking it  with
     him  packed  on  his  head  or shoulders. What do you think,
     monks? That the man in doing this would be doing what should
     be done to that raft?"

        "No, lord."

       "What should that man do,  monks,  in  order  to  do  what
     should  be  done to the raft? In this case, monks, that man,
     he has crossed over to the beyond and  realised  how  useful
     the raft has been to him, may think: "Suppose that I, having
     beached this raft on dry ground, or having  immersed  it  in
     the water, should proceed on my journey?" Monks, a man doing
     this would be doing what should be done to the raft. In this
     way,  monks,  I  have taught you Dhamma - the parable of the
     raft - for getting across, not for retaining. You, monks, by
     understanding  the  parable  of  the raft, must discard even
     right states of mind and, all  the  more,  wrong  states  of
     mind."

 [ From Buddhism ]

 peace,
 vaisnavi.
From: schiller@whorf.UCAR.EDU(Eric Schiller)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: 4 Noble Truths
Date: 30 Dec 92 23:52:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47837
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1hg7t3INNaid@sandman.caltech.edu> darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu  
(Richard Darsie) writes:
> 

> 
> Another thing the Buddha taught is that we are all deluded. 

Perhaps it is directly to the point that the English language
metaphor is:

Suffering from delusions.

The sense of suffering here is precisely that which a number
of participants in this thread are aiming at, I think. The
person who is "suffering from delusions" is often thought
to be suffering only from an external perspective.

And the appropriate response is pity and compassion!

--
***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** ****
Sometimes my head is in the clouds of theory, but often it is just a fog.
My feet, meantime, tend to stay more or less on the ground. I think.
***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** ****
Eric Schiller                              schiller@sapir.uchicago.edu
Dept of Linguistics, Univ. of Chicago      schiller@whorf.uchicago.edu
From: Jack Carroll <SECBH@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: The Earth House (book recommendation)
Date: 28 Dec 92 01:34:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47769
Distribution: world
Organization: ----

_The Earth House_, Jeanne DuPrau, New Chapter Press, New York

I recently finished this book in a one-day read.
In a quiet, unspectacular way it had a great deal to say about
the tensions, blendings, integration and conflicts which seem
to arise between formal Buddhist practice and the busyness of
daily life.  And how - in this instance at least - this seeming
difference can be recognized as apposition rather than opposition.

I liked Joko Beck's book, _Everyday Zen_, very much for its insights
as well as for the sturdy, commonplace style she used to convey them.
I found _The Earth House_ to resonate very well with Beck's book and
style, however it approaches the same territory from the neophyte's
viewpoint rather than the teacher's.

I think a major part of the effectiveness of _The Earth House_ is that
it begins as what seems to be a rather plain memoir and then very
naturally and unaffectedly becomes a written meditation as the lives
of the author and a friend unfold to encompass "the great matter
of life and death" which they find in the midst of fulfilling
a mutual dream of building a retreat house in the country.

A very worthwhile investment of a few hours reading time.

Jack Carroll
From: prasanth@ecn.purdue.edu (Ravi K. Prasanth)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: revelations or lack thereof...
Date: 25 Dec 1992 15:49:26 -0800
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <47421@ogicse.ogi.edu>, billc@devnull.mpd.tandem.com (Bill Carter) writes:
 
>  This is pretty nice to think about, somehow.  No wonder
>  Buddhism has done so well, though I never heard anyone
>  formulate it's appeal quite this way before.  Anyone care to
>  defend Hinduism as "revealed" and rightfully so, or maybe
>  to deny that it is "revealed"?
 

What is Hinduism ?

 
> =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =
>   Bill Carter    "Control what you can control, let everything else
>                   take a flying f*ck at you, and if you fall go down
>                   with your guns blazing."

RKP

Newsgroups: soc.bi,alt.sex.bondage
From: arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Sexual consent (Was: Roy's "consenting" slave)
Date: 22 Dec 92 13:15:18 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <BzMxMM.B9G@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>
dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott) writes:

>Among all this Gus seems to have run out on the battlefield naked, sat
>between the warring armies, and [...]

Careful now, this is getting near to my fantasies ... *blush*

(Perhaps I should revise "wimp" and "cissy" to "masochist"?)
--
Gus Rodgers,  Dept. of Computer Science, |  [Profound thought for 1993]
Queen Mary & Westfield College, Mile End |     "Philishave is about
Road, London, England.   +44 71 975 5241 |      personal choice" 
E-mail (JANET):   arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk |             -- TV advert
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: a *bench* of bisexuals?
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:28:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.194724.26255@news.acns.nwu.edu> Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:

[Re:  Kat's trip to London, meeting Angie, Tanaqui and Clive]

>Pretty please....Tell us more...

Oh, I shouldn't have teased.....there really isn't that much to tell.

We mainly just flirted outrageously, kissed and cuddled and weirded
out the straights....

About par for the course when you're among bi-friendly people...

I have to say that the English have an amazing ability to politely
ignore anything they find disturbing....


 - Kateri


-- 
i thank you God for most this amazing
day:  for the leaping greenly spirits of the trees
and a blue true dream of sky; and for everything
which is natural which is infinite which is yes		 - e.e.cummings
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
Subject: Re: Het males & bi-femmes
Date: 31 Dec 92 04:07:13 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1ht50iINNnia@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>Then again, I suspect it's just a matter of ignorance; there's the whole
>image of how two women make love that reinforces the image (Now, now, we all
>know you're not supposed to use dildos, vibrators, strap-ons, or any of that
>stuff; and of _course_ women would consider each other's anuses sacred and
>sick and would _never_ consider having anal sex).  

ah, roy, you caught me...I realized right after I posted that that I
hadn't made clear that I was talking about "the stereotypical hetboy
perception of lesbian sex", not lesbian sex ;>

>-roy, firm believer in strap-ons.
>
>Firm? Did I say firm? Pardon ... I didn't mean that.

;> ;>

-jen 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: FeminIseultIsm
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:55:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.125122.26184@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>In <BzFHqv.46E@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>
>dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott) writes:
>>[...] Maybe people just prefer to bicker.
>>Two posts I made in a more theoretical 'let's understand this' tone
>>warranted only one reply that limited itself to one word I used.
>
>Oh gawd, not this one again. It should be put into the FAQ list. All
>together now:
>
>	Just because you did not receive any responses to your posting
>	does *not* mean that people have deliberately, maliciously and
>	conspiratorially chosen to ignore it.

And append:
	Nor does it mean that they haven't.

	:)

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: habs@panix.com (Harry Shapiro)
Subject: Re: treating men as sex toys
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 03:27:48 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <MUFFY.92Dec24114049@remarque.berkeley.edu>
muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:


>I keep running into this idea, which seems very strange to me.  Most
>recently, I heard a man on a mailing list say it: he will have sex with
>men when he just wants sex, but he will only have emotional
>relationships with women.

While I have had a lot of sex with folks (M & F) without any emotional
connections, lately the emotional and the trust side of the
relationship is truely important to me. I can't imagine that I would
want to have sex with a man unless their was some strong emontional
connections. Since I am rather strong on conmitment these days, that
would be important too.

>Without getting into "what is *really* bisexual," my personal definition
>of bisexual is not simply having sex with both men and women, but being
>*interested* in both men and women, as people, as emotional partners, as
>well as as sexual partners.

I find that I use the same definition - I see bisexuality as a
very personal thing. For me it is part of my overall willingness
to connenct and relate to all people.

>Muffy

>Muffy Barkocy                      | ~Can you tell me how much bleeding/it
>muffy@mica.berkeley.edu            |  takes to fill a word with meaning and/
>"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm   |  how much how much death it takes/to give
>not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.|  a slogan breath?~ - Bruce Cockburn
-- 
Harry Shapiro  				      habs@panix.com
List Administrator of the Extropy Institute Mailing List
Private Communication for the Extropian Community since 1991
Newsgroups: soc.bi