From: mjp@austin.ibm.com (Michael Phelps)
Subject: Re: A Japanese student kill in Lousiana (Gun Control)
Originator: mjp@bwa.kgn.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 12:08:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: mjp@vnet.ibm.com (Michael J. Phelps)
Organization: IBM Kingston NY


In article <1992Nov5.205559.26554@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov3.181029.12785@ntmtv> nguyenpd@ntmtv.UUCP (Phat Nguyen) writes:
|> >I agree with you.  If we need a driver license to operate a car
|> >because it is potentially deadly, why don't we need a license to
|> >use a gun then?
|> 
|> Because car licensing is supposed to address unintentional acts, AKA
|> accidents.  We don't expect it to address intentional acts, like
|> drive-bys, get-aways, and so on.  There are significant problems with
|> unintentional acts with cars, but not with guns.  (Murder/robbery is
|> an INTENTIONAL act.)
|> 
|> >doesn't work.  What is the point of banning gun owning from
|> >New Yorkers inside the city when they can go 10 miles out
|> >of the city limit to buy an automatic pistol legally.
|> 
|> In this universe, it isn't legal for New Yorkers to buy guns
|> elsewhere, and hasn't been for a couple of decades....

NY city residents have damm little legal firearm ownership.  Some rifles and
shotguns are prohibited (the infamous assault rifle confiscation - yes it happened
in NY city).  However, since rifles and shotguns aren't commonly used to commit
crimes (source: FBI), and they are not concealable, i'll focus on legal handgun
ownership in NY state.  If you feel that long guns are a problem too, rsvp and 
i'll try to find out the details on NY city ownership (its restricted but i don't
know the details as well).

Heres the details - please, feel free to call the
Dutchess County Sherriff's office 914-452-0400 and ask for the handgun permit
bureau to verify the facts.

1. I'll ease your 10 mile radius (around NYC) to give you 5 scenerios:
 a. Flushing (Nassau County)
 b. Yonkers (Westchester County)
 c. New Jersey
 d. Connecticut
 e. Atlantic Ocean, beyond US territorial waters (200 miles??)

a and b are New York state; to LEGALLY buy a handgun in NY state (excluding
NY city) you must have a handgun permit as well as explicit permission from your
county sherriff.  
To obtain a permit, you have to have 4 character references, a reason, pass a NY
state background check, a federal (FBI) background check, and wait 3-6 months if
everything is run according to the books.  If you live in NY city, its somewhere
between difficult and impossible to obtain the special NY city permit.
Each time you wish to obtain another handgun, you have to apply thru your home
county's sherriff.  The end result is that you have a liscence for each and every
handgun you own, with the serial number on that liscence.  
The liscense can be revoked for virtually anything - a DWI will get it yanked so
fast your head will spin.  Needless to say, not too many New Yorkers who legally
own handguns commit crimes (for 1 thing, the state has your fingerprints on file)
To make it more convenient for criminals, the permit applications (complete with
type, model and serial number of any handgun owned at the time and disposition)
are available at your local NY county board of records.  I almost fell over when
I saw that!

c and d are felonies; it is against the law to purchase a handgun outside your
state of residence.  

e might allow you to obtain the firearm legally, but moving it from outside the
US to inside is known as smuggling, and is quite illegal (like mondo felonies)

The criminals, however, simply buy them illegally, even tho there are myriad laws
against it.

Now, how do you think that YAL (yet another law) is going to fix this?  How many
of the firearm related crimes in NY city are committed using a legally owned 
firearm?  

By the way, I believe that the NY state permit system came into being in 1917,
as the Sullivan Law, so this has been the case for more years than any of us
involved in this discussion have been alive.

Do you still think that a New Yorker can go 10 miles from NY city and legally
buy a handgun?

-- 
Michael Phelps, (external) mjp@vnet.ibm.com ..
                (internal) mjp@bwa.kgn.ibm.com .. mjp at kgnvmy         
 (and last but not least a disclaimer)  These opinions are mine..       
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa