HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: landsea@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu (Chris Landsea)
Subject: Re: Deforestation -> Desertification?
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:46:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University -- Atmos Sci
Keywords: drought and deforestation

In article <1992Nov18.201401.27001@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com
           (Dean Alaska) writes:
>I have read of theories that suggest that deforestation changes
>rain patterns in ways that can lead to desertification.  This has
>been suggested to be happening in the Amazon and in eastern Africa,
>where frequent droughts are leading to famine.  It is known that
>Ethiopia and Somalia have experienced significant deforestation.
>
>What is the status of these theories among meteorologists and
>climatologists?

One theory that's been around for awhile is Charney's bio-geo-physical
feedback theory of desertification (*Quart.J.Roy.Meteor.Soc.*, 1975,
193-202):

Less Vegetation (due to overgrazing or deforestation)...>>>>>
    Higher Albedo (and thus less solar absorbed at the surface)...>>>>
         More subsidence warming (to compensate)....>>>>>
              Less rainfall....>>>>>>
                    Less vegeatation....>>>>

and so on..

Unfortunately, this albedo effect apparently is tiny (Gornitz, 1985, *Clim.
Change*, 285-326) and other factors are likely more important for rainfall 
in the African Sahel (including Ethiopia) - such as Atlantic and Global sea 
surface temperatures (Palmer, *Nature*, 1986).

However, deforestation also affects the moisture as well as the albedo 
(Nicholson, 1988, *Prog. Phys. Geogr.*) and the combination of the two
would have an effect on rainfall.  How much is still being debated...

Chris

P.S.  The current famine in Somalia is *NOT* drought related primarily.
The big problem is that when there is constant warfare and banditry it's
awfully tough to plant crops...



STATUS OF GRAY'S ATLANTIC           Long | Nov 26 | Jun 05 | Aug 05 |
SEASONAL HURRICANE FORECAST         Term |  1991  |  1992  |  1992  |
FOR 1992                            Mean |  Fcst. |  Fcst. |  Fcst. | Current
=============================================================================
Named Storms                         9.3 |    8   |    8   |    8   |    6 
Named Storm Days                    46.7 |   35   |   35   |   35   |  38.2 
Hurricanes                           5.8 |    4   |    4   |    4   |    4 
Hurricane Days                      23.7 |   15   |   15   |   15   |  15.8
Major Hurricanes (Category 3-4-5)    2.5 |    1   |    1   |    1   |    1 
Major Hurricane Days                 5.8 |  2.0   |  2.0   |  2.0   |   3.2 
Hurricane Destruction Potential     73.8 |   35   |   35   |   35   |  50.7  

*****************************************************************************
Chris Landsea                          Voice:  (303) 491-8605
Department of Atmospheric Science      Fax:    (303) 491-8449
Colorado State University              Internet:  landsea@typhoon.atmos.
Fort Collins, CO   80523                          colostate.edu
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: blanchard@nsslc.gcn.uoknor.edu (David O. Blanchard)
Subject: Re: STOP Re: mesoscale forecast model
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: National Severe Storms Laboratory
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:46:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.010750.26822@meteor.wisc.edu>, stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt) writes...

     [previous comments about who said what about models deleted]

>There is no "best" model. Each has certain things it does well and certain
>things that give the model problems. There is a "best" model for a particular
>application, but more likely the difference from one to another may be no
>worse than their errors. And, worst of all, model intercomparisons are next to
>impossible for a multitude of reasons. A particular model can perform very
>differently by just changing a few parameters, and the parameter values that
>work best for particular situations for one model may be different than the
>values best for another model. For generic, artificial tests like dropping a
>cold bubble in a box, reasonable comparisons can be made but the test itself
>is rather artificial. For real data cases or realistic idealized experiments,
>the initial numerically balanced fields will be different from one model to
>another, so you're not really even starting off the same! And, of course,
>most of these sophisticated models have many options for various 
>parameterizations such as soil models, radiation, and sub-grid scale turbulence,
>by choosing different options for these you really have many different models
>in one program.
>

Steve has stated the situation well regarding comparisons of models and
what is "best".  Best is decided by the end-user and the users needs.

>As for whether these things should be "decided" on usenet, I think discussion
>of the strengths and weaknesses of different models, what machines they can
>run on and how much computational resources they require, etc. are good topics
>for discussion-- they are part of an exchange of scientific information that,
>after all, is supposed to be the function of usenet.
> 
>Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu

I wholeheartedly agree with Steve that s.g.m IS the place to discuss this
topic.  Journal articles are written so that they are not inflammatory
(well, usually) and often sterile.  Discussions about models posted here
will not only contain "just the facts", but anecdotes, words of advice,
pitfalls, sources of frustration, etc., etc., etc.  All this, in my opinion,
is useful to the prospective model user.

--db
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|David O. Blanchard		dob@nssl.erl.gov			   |
|Boulder, Colorado		blanchard@nsslc.gcn.uoknor.edu		   |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe)
Subject: Re: lake effect snow
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 16 Nov 92 10:29:06 CST


     In article <1992Nov16.022856.19931@pool.info.sunyit.edu>, upfv@pool.info.sunyit.edu (Paul Vieira) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> As a member of the select western New York counties vulnerable to
|> Lake Effect, a few questions come to mind regarding its fundamentals.
|> 
|> 1. Which element is a greater factor in the intensity of the lake
|> effect, wind strength or the delta between the air temperature and
|> the lake temperature? If the air is very cold and the wind light,
|> will it yield as much activity as moderate temperature drop and
|> very heavy wind?
|> 
|> 2. Here in Rome/Utica area, when conditions favor lake effect we are more apt
|> to get accumulating snow in the evening hours. Does the sun influence
|> the effect during the day, perhaps by "burning off" moisture?
|> 
|> 3. Finally, this is a general question about wind. Why does wind tend to 
|> subside in the evening?
|> 
|> Appreciate any response.
|> 
|> 

I'm going to leave #1 and #2 to other respondants.  If there is no response
in a day or two I will do my best.


For #3  Wind is usually stronger during the day than at night at 
surface points (where we all live).  This is because of convection
transporting momentum from aloft to replace momentum tranaferred
from the air to the ground by friction.  The ground is a strong momentum sink
and if the momentum is not replaced, surface winds will quickly die.
Convection transports new parcels with momentum down and old 
parcels with less momentum back up.   At night when convection stops,
there is much less  momentum transport down and the wind dies.
For the same reason, winds are stronger when the air is colder
than the ground (common in cold outbreaks) and weaker when the air
is warmer than the ground.  Because of this phenomenon, I have often
seen radiation frost with no wind even when the preceeding and following
days were breezy and surface pressure gradient (which determines the
gradient wind speed) was present throughout the period.

    Sorry I just don't seem to be able to write concisely today but
this verbiage describes what goes on.
From: 00bndaniels@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Wanted: titles of books about Tornadoes
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:28:19 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

I want information on books written on weather.  I found one 
book at my university's library called: "Tornado Watch 211"  is 
was about how one outbreak of tornadoes affected the areas of 
northeastern Ohio and western Pennsylvania.  The book was written
(I believe, but unsure) by a person who was a director or a 
meterologist at the Severe Storms Forcast Center.  The book 
itself is about 200-250 pages long.  If you know of any books
written on the topic of tornado outbreaks can you please write
to me and tell me there titles?  I am a intersted in reading 
more on this facinating topic.
Barron Daniels
Ball State University
Muncie Indiana
From: hannegan@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bryan Hannegan)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Motivation to rain more over forests!
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:09:43 GMT
Organization: Code 916, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <1992Nov16.164747.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> ckawecki@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>	Preliminary investigation (Brown 72- re strip clearcutting
>of Minnesota Spruce) suggests that forests for a certain time
>have lower evapotranspiration rates than that which replaces them,
>but that groundwater is depleted in the clearcut strips. Reasonable, then, 
>to suggest that a clearcut forest would lose soil moisture content,
>until the grasses which replaced the forest had too little water
>to draw from, at which point their evapotranspiration rates would
>be less than those of forests? This suggests that significant
>amounts of rainfall were originally not from the ocean, but evaporated.
>
>	Ideas anyone?
>

I'm not sure that I completely follow Chris' line of reasoning, but something 
I remembered from a meteorological class I took dealing with the tropics
took hold.

In the tropics, a primary source of the rainfall over rainforests is not 
so much the transport from the oceans, but rather, the large amount of 
evaporation from the forest canopy itself. In this manner, torrential 
downpours are observed well inland from any external moisture source.

Additionally, the soil under a forest canopy would (if memory serves correctly)
support a larger field capacity than a grassland in the same situation. The    
capability to hold more mositure would then be available at least in theory.

When clearcutting were to occur, the field capacity would diminsh and the excess
water which was previously bound to the roots of the forest would be liberated 
to run off from the soon-to-be grassland.

Anyone care to help here? This is cobwebbed knowledge from my undergraduate past
at Oklahoma, and may be unclear.

Bryan Hannegan
Dept. of Geosciences, University of CA, Irvine
hannegan@halo.ps.uci.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: dremsen@mbl.edu (David Remsen)
Subject: Anyone own MacSat?
Organization: Marine Biological Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 18:19:13 GMT

I am interested in corresponding with anyone who owns MacSat. I am
interested in this product but would like to find out more.   How satisfied
buyers are. Image quality.  Software questions, etc.

Please e-mail me.
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: joeb@atmos.washington.edu (Joe Barsugli)
Subject: Re: Research in applying distributed systems to meteorology problems
Organization: Dept. of Atmospheric Sciences, University of Washington
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:42:55 GMT

In article <BxwnHz.K1s@cs.vu.nl> wood@cs.vu.nl (Mark D. Wood) writes:

   I'm a researcher in distributed systems, looking for problems... (A
   large part of research :) )

   A considerable amount of research has been devoted to developing
   computer-based climate models, methods for weather prediction, etc.
   These tasks are typically computationally intensive.  and the research
   questions here lie primarily in the fields of numerical analysis and
   algorithms.

   It would seem, however, that techniques from distributed systems could
   also be applied.  Perhaps the tasks are all fairly simple and
   straightforward; it is "just" a question of remote sensing, gathering
   information from remote sensors, and then disseminating as necessary.
   However I'd expect that there are some thorny issues here, which could
   be best addressed by applying techniques from the distributed systems
   community.


Could you fill me in on what "distributed systems" techniques are?  I
am unfamiliar with the precise definition of the term. 

Joe Barsugli (joeb@atmos.washington.edu)
Dept. of Atmospheric Sciences, AK-40
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195   USA
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: weather images
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:24:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: unocal.1992Nov17.172422.24638
Organization: Unocal Corporation


It appears the cloud images stopped accumulating at uiuc Nov 13.
Also the USA map outlines were becoming out of sync with the images.
The ucar site has current image file times, but it is not clear whether
the images are current.
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: jmasters@engin.umich.edu (Jeffrey Mason Masters)
Subject: Re: Clouds over this part of Midwest
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 10:19:32 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <S2F=LX+@engin.umich.edu> Fil Sapienza <Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu> writes:
>Greetings.  I live in South East Michigan, and am curious if someone
>could tell me why is it that between the months of November to March,
>we hardly get any sunshine up here?  What are the meteorological reasons
>for this? (i.e. wind patterns, etc).  

  The reason for the extensive cloudiness in Michigan between November and
March is two-fold:

1) Michigan tends to be positioned near the jet stream, which carries many
   cloud-bearing storms into our vicinity.

2) Winds blowing over the Great Lakes pick up moisture, creating extra cloud
   cover that is not found at other locations at the same latitude. In 
   addition, the warm waters of the Great Lakes actully can spawn storm 
   systems.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jeff Masters  (jmasters@madlab.sprl.umich.edu)
 Atmospheric, Oceanic, and Space Sciences
 University of Michigan                         //       Home of the         \\
                                                \\ "The Weather Underground" //
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe)
Subject: Notable Quote
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 16 Nov 92 10:37:04 CST

    A giant of physical science from the 1700s or 1800s said somthing
which roughly paraphrases as
    
      THERE IS NO BETTER WAY FOR A MAN OF SCIENCE 
       TO DESTROY HIS REPUTATION WITH HIS PEERS
      THAN TO ATTEMPT
      TO PREDICT THE WEATHER.

     Who said this and what was the exact quote?
From: moonunit@meteor.wisc.edu (Chris Bovitz)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Strange Clouds over DCA
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:21:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science

This message was forwarded to me by our computer sys admin:


>Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 10:21:02 EST
>From: harnack@gandalf.rutgers.edu
>To: mcidas@unidata.ucar.edu
>Subject: Retransmission of: Anomalous cloud pattern?
>
>
>McIDAS users:
>
>The last 2 days [16-17 Nov] I have noticed that 'cold' clouds seem to be 
>'generated' over a small area just to the west of DCA using an IR loop. 
>While clouds apparently move eastward elsewhere, the 'cold' clouds in the 
>mentioned area tend to be stationary or are developing there continuously. 
>If you archive images check out an IR loop using Mon. nights images also.
>Does anyone have an ideas on what I am seeing besides: (1) I'm not of a sane
>mind, (2) its a volcano, and (3) its orographic (I find that plausible but
>not likely in this instance.
>
>Bob Harnack
>Rutgers

Any thoughts?

Chris

-- 
Chris Bovitz              |      "I find 'Sesame Street'   
Department of Meteorology |      intellectually challenging."
Univ of Wisc - Madison    |  
moonunit@meteor.wisc.edu  |               -- Carl Sagan
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: pmh2962@tamsun.tamu.edu (Pat Hayes)
Subject: "Survey says: ..." ( was STOP Re: mesoscale forecast model)
Organization: Meteorology, TAMU, CS, TX
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:20:32 GMT

Doug Westphal writes:
>Oh boy, here we go again: uninformed people making broad generalizations
>>>
>>>From hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu:
>>>The best mesoscale model around now is the The Penn State/NCAR model,
>>>MM4.  It beats the life out of the second most common model, CSU-RAMS.
>>>Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
>
>>>From: stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt)
>>>I have heard various rave reviews about the MM4, but my experience seeing the
>>>utput of people using it (I haven't used it myself) is that it is filled with
>>>problems, worst being that it smooths the heck out of *everything* in the
>>>Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu
>
>Noooooooo!!! The question of which is the 'best' model cannot be
>decided with a Gallup opinion poll or on Usenet. Let's not continue
>this, okay? The whole thing should be decided in an entirely different way:
>IN THE PEER-REVIEWED LITERATURE.
--------------------
Howdy!
	I think the original poster did NOT ask which model was
"the best" (right, Grant?). He asked for general info and
folks' opinions on the performance of models being run today.
	Unfortunately, some of us take stuff like this personally,
it seems. Oh, well. I'm sure nobody meant to say:
"those bozos at U-Magicland have a model so crappy it can't
advect itself out of a paper bag." True, a few of us could be
more "professional" or/and "courteous" and qualify every single
sentence we type (like I seem to do) so as to appear non-
critical of someone's personal project.
	Maybe the problem is: something Stephen would have said
to Grant over the phone may not be appropriate to send to
a zillion news drops. Or -- maybe it is -- maybe this is a
messy form of "peer-review"? I think Harold was getting at
this, later. I think this is an awesome medium for dialog
and we shouldn't declare things taboo too quickly. Thanks!
-- 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pat Hayes, Meteorology, Texas A&M University...<whoop!>...phayes@tamu.edu 
O&M 1008, TAMU, CS, TX 77843-3150....days:(409)845-1680 fax:(409)845-6331 
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Subject: Deforestation -> Desertification?
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:14:01 GMT

I have read of theories that suggest that deforestation changes
rain patterns in ways that can lead to desertification.  This has
been suggested to be happening in the Amazon and in eastern Africa,
where frequent droughts are leading to famine.  It is known that
Ethiopia and Somalia have experienced significant deforestation.

What is the status of these theories among meteorologists and
climatologists?
-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: rgm4@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Raghuram G Murtugudde)
Subject: Upwind advection scheme: Arakawa ? Takacs? Monthly Weather review?
Reply-To: rgm4@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Raghuram G Murtugudde)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:08:10 GMT


 Someone gave me a vague reference to a paper by Arakawa on a monotonic
 upwind advection scheme that is supposed to have appeared in the Monthly
 Weather Review. I have no idea which year though. Does anybody remember
 even an approximate date? Does anybody know if Arakawa wrote any such paper?

 The method is supposed to be that of Takacs(??) and is supposed to be
 a 3rd order upwind scheme. 

 Thank you in advance.

 Ragu
From: flogden@icaen.uiowa.edu (Fred Lee Ogden)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Who sells telemetered rain gauges?
Summary: We want to buy telemetered rain gauges.  Who sells them?
Keywords: telemetered rain gauge vendors
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:55:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

Hello all in netland,

We have a project which requires 5 to 10 telemetered rain gauges.  Since the
people who make and sell these things don't advertise in the literature we
read (do they advertise???) we are in need of your help.  The type is not
so critical.  Tipping bucket, weighing bucket, but not optical gauges will
work.  Each gauge should have a data logger and some form of radio telemetry.

Please, if you know the address/phone/fax number of rain gauge vendors, e-mail
them to me.

Thanks in advance,

Fred L. Ogden
Iowa Institute of Hydraulic Research
Hydrometeorology Laboratory
The University of Iowa
flogden@icaen.uiowa.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: wood@cs.vu.nl (Mark D. Wood)
Subject: Research in applying distributed systems to meteorology problems
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 09:25:10 GMT

I'm a researcher in distributed systems, looking for problems... (A
large part of research :) )

A considerable amount of research has been devoted to developing
computer-based climate models, methods for weather prediction, etc.
These tasks are typically computationally intensive.  and the research
questions here lie primarily in the fields of numerical analysis and
algorithms.

It would seem, however, that techniques from distributed systems could
also be applied.  Perhaps the tasks are all fairly simple and
straightforward; it is "just" a question of remote sensing, gathering
information from remote sensors, and then disseminating as necessary.
However I'd expect that there are some thorny issues here, which could
be best addressed by applying techniques from the distributed systems
community.

The only work I am familiar with along these lines is the work on
StormCast by folks at the University of Tromsoe in Norway.  I would be
curious to hear of other, related projects AND also of needs that
people in the climatology/meteorology field have which could be
appropriately dealt with by researchers in distributed systems.

Postings or direct e-mail are fine.  If it seems appropriate, I can
post a summary.

-- 
Mark D. Wood                                                     Office: R4.41
Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica                               FAX: +31 20 642 7705
Vrije Universiteit / De Boelelaan 1081a                 Phone: +31 20 548 4477
1081 HV Amsterdam, The Netherlands                     Internet: wood@cs.vu.nl
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: steve@sgidev.mdc.com (Steve D. Roberts)
Subject: Help! Need info on graduate schools.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 19:42:40 EST
Organization: McDonnell Douglas, Long Beach, CA



I am interested in going back to school to obtain a graduate degree
in the atmospheric sciences. The problem is I am having a hard time
narrowing down the list of graduate schools I would like to apply to.
Does anybody have any recommendations for a good school or maybe a
list of the top rated graduate programs if there is such a thing or
point me in the right direction.

My area of interest is in numerical modeling but I'm interested in
most aspects of meteorology so I would not what to limit myself.
Any information would be of great help. Feel free to E-mail me
directly.

Thanks
Steve Roberts
steve@sgidev.mdc.com