HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: daryl@bovill.auspex.com (Daryl Starr)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose & Elk
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:54:10 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems

In article <1992Aug18.090819.16139@bernina.ethz.ch>, eman@niepce.foto.lpc.ethz.ch (Eric Maniloff x4440) writes:
|> Big question here!  What is the difference between a moose & an elk?
|> 
|> Is there a difference?  I thought that moose were expanded versions of elk,
|> 
|> but someone found a dictionary saying moose:  common name for elk.
|> 
|> What's the deal here?
|> 
|> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> 
|> Eric Maniloff						eman@ppc.lpc.ethz.ch
|> Physical Chemistry Laboratory				tel: 41 1 256 44 40
|> ETH-Zentrum, Zurich					fax: 41 1 252 34 02

What's known in North America as a moose is known in Europe as an elk.

What's known in North America as an elk is known in Europe as a red deer.

Got this from TDC. Wonderful station.

Daryl
From: psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: WAS: Mono Pass...     BEARS! (Oh my!)
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:59:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: ut-emx.78095
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <55771@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> donehoo@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Doyle Donehoo) writes:
>
>In places where there are LOTS of backpackers/hikers, there will be bears:
>  ... 
>4) They can always count on SOMEbody being careless enough so they can get
>   the food without much confrontation.
>  ...
>Occasionally, rarely, a determined bear will get your food no matter
>how well you hang it. Generally, if you do a good job of hanging
>(COUNTERBALANCE!) it, your food is safe, and the bear will not take a
>second look at it.
> ...
>the bears are out eating 20 hours a day until they get their fat
>quota, and are more likely to approach your campsite. Hang your food right! 
>  ...

I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen plastic food canisters mentioned in
this thread, or even on this group. In many Nat'l parks, where bears have
been well trained in the art of harrassing hikers and defeating the most
artful bear hangs, one can now rent hard plastic cylinders to store food in.
They are large enough around and slick enough that a bear's teeth can't get
a purchase. They have (so far) been highly successful in keeping food safe
from bears. You just leave them on the ground, being sure they are closed 
properly. The bears may know that there's food inside, but they usually bat
it around for a couple of minutes and lose interest. The two drawbacks to
this system are the extra weight (about 3 lbs, in my opinion plenty light
enough to make up for the hassle of hanging food) and the size/shape may be
awkward to pack, depending on your equipment and what else you are carrying.
I suppose on a long trip they become less desirable as you must carry more of
them. They can also be purchased for about $70.

--Peter
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: NT/BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:53:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.172708.25509@walter.cray.com> Tom Stephens,
hens@snipe.cray.com writes:
>  We went to RMNP and they did not allow dogs 
>in the backcountry!!!

Aaaiiggghh!!!!  I hate this debate.  We have a border collie that goes
with us EVERYWHERE.  She can handle climbs, boulder fields and streams
better than us lumbering bipeds, and she carries her own packs.  She does
not disturb the wildlife and makes much less impact than two people with
loaded packs, and FAR less than would a horse. 

As far as distemper and parvo, horseshit!  As a wildlife rehabilitator, I
can tell you that your pet is equally as likely to pick up diseases from
the fauna as vice versa.   A well vaccinated dog should pose no threat
(or very minor threat).  We can't answer for feral dogs, but that's not
the question here.  Where these diseases originated is still up in the
air.

Now I will concede that in some of the more delicate (and overused) ecos,
such as the Needles or Canyonland areas where the crust broken by paws
takes forever to heal were a dog to get off the trail, a pet should be
left at home.  And there are some idiots with untrained dogs who have
ruined it for the rest of us, of course. 

Now while your dog may like to "run around and roll in the grass", our
dog wants to be in her packs on the trail.  This is her favorite thing,
her position in life, her calling.  We simply don't go where she is not
allowed.  There are still plenty of places without the "no dogs" rule. 
Maybe later in life, when she is too old to hit the trails, we will board
her and go see these places, if they haven't been destroyed by other
beasts, specifically man and their rowdy offspring.   
J (let me tell you about my dog) B
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ault@engin.umich.edu (Matthew Ault)
Subject: Re: accessible = !wilderness (WAS Re: Oregon Wallowas
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 16:35:29 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <2839@monarch.array.com> kenm@array.com (Ken Murphy) writes:
>davis@ee.rochester.edu (Al Davis) writes:
>: >In article <e8FX02yd1dbo01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes) writes:
>: >>  "Everyone and everything should be banned from the
>: >>   *wilderness* except the small number of people who are
>: >>   willing and able to get there the hard way, and their
>: >>   simple gear.  If impact increases, access should be made
>: >>   more difficult, and more restrictions placed on gear."
>
>One small question on this matter.  If everyone and everything should be 
>banned from the *wilderness*, why the hell do we need more and more of it
>each year so that less and less of the people can use it?

Well, if you only see the wilderness as something that exists so that
*people* can **use** it, then it's little wonder that you don't get it.
Think "preserving for future generations and other creatures on this
planet."

-matt


-- 
======================================================================
|   Matthew A. Ault    | Zarquon's knees!  Did I *ask* for an        |
| ault@engin.umich.edu |  existential elevator?  --Zaphod Beeblebrox |
======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Jeffrey Mulligan)
Subject: Another Request, Re: camping in New Mexico?
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:46:27 GMT

sjp@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Steve Phillips) writes:

>I highly recommend the White Mountain Wilderness area around Ruidoso in
>south central New Mexico, especially in fall.  Magnificent displays of Aspen
>trees in full fall glory, crisp temperature during the day, clear air, superb
>long distance views.  Best way from Albuquerque is I25 south to San Antonio, 
>then state 380 east past Carrizozo to Capitan, then south to Ruidoso.

Sorry if I came in on this late; I am going to be in Albuquerque towards
the end of Sept. and am thinking about getting out into the hills;
I am considering the Pecos Wilderness Area, and the area around
Jemez Springs, Bandelier Natl Mon., ...
Advice or other suggestions will be most appreciated.

Jeff

-- 

	Jeff Mulligan (jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov)
	NASA/Ames Research Ctr., Mail Stop 262-2, Moffett Field CA, 94035
	(415) 604-3745
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Moose vs. Elk
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:13:35 GMT

In article <1405@yetti.UUCP>,
french@cs.yorku.ca (Lori French) writes:
>
>  Ok, so how about caribou?  I was under the impression that
>   elk and caribou were the same.   This could become confusing...
>
>
Caribou are essentialy reindeer.  Not really the same as elk
although there is some similiarity.  Santa's sleigh is definately
not pulled by elk or moose!
From: emiller@favorite.cis.ohio-state.edu (eric john miller)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Grand Cannyon Backcountry Information
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:16:35 GMT
Distribution: rec.backcountry
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science

Could someone please e-mail me the address for the Grand Canyon 
Backcountry Office, I'm interested in obtaining a permit for hiking the canyon
in middle to late September.

Also, if anyone can suggest a trail (other that the Kaibab-Bright Angel),
I would be most appreciative.  I'm planning on hiking anywhere from
2 to 6 days (I haven't really decided yet...)

Thanks in advance.

Eric Miller
ejm@rsch.oclc.org
emiller@cis.ohio-state.edu
From: bingham@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (David Bingham)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:51:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Svea 123R (was: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

  I borrowed a 123 from a friend for a 4 day trip. I really enjoyed 
using the thing. (almost as much as I like my Peak I). Only two 
things I didn't like; one of them very minor. First I didn't like
having to remove the windscreen. That's just being picky. Second,
the stove was slightly unstable.  That caused problems a few times.

David
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel)
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-GK II
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY, 12866
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 11:58:26 GMT

In article <MAHA.92Aug15204036@elaine15.Stanford.EDU> maha@elaine15.Stanford.EDU (lakshminarayanan mahadevan) writes:
>
>Hi,
>	I am trying to make up my mind about buying a good stove that can be
>used in Asia, Africa and S. America with a variety of fuels. While the X-GKII
>is capable of burning almost anything (including varnish!), it is considerably
>more expensive ($79) than the Whisperlite International ($56) which
>burns keroosine besides White gas. As far as design goes, I find the
>Coleman multifuel Peak I ($36) most appealing because it is just one piece. 
>Can anyone advice me on the the pros and cons of these stoves.

I put my Peak I aside and bought a Whisperlight because :
	1. the Peak I took more room in the pack (I also carried a
	   fuel bottle with it).
	2. The Peak I weighed more.

But... after using the Whisperlight (which is lighter and fits in my
mess kit), I found it a pain.  You have to prime it and that process
causes it to get black (carbon?) every time.  I have to clean it
before putting back in the pack (so,  I'm neat).  Whisperlight doesn't
need to be primed.  Conclusion....  it's weight and volume vs.
compactness and priming.  What's more important to you?


-- 
Pierre von Kaenel	| Skidmore College	     | pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu
Math & CS Dept.		| Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 | (518)584-5000 Ext 2391
When asked his position on euthanasia, our local state rep. responded:
"I support youth all over the world."
From: Dan Yurman <dyurman@igc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:26 PDT
Subject: Re: Sawtooth Natinonal Rec Area: INFO N
Nf-ID: #R:unix.sri.com:37814:cdp:1449600020:000:849
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dyurman    Aug 13 21:26:00 1992


The Sawtooth National Recreation Area Visitor Center on Highway 75
north of Galena Pass can answer questions about weather, campsites,
and backcountry conditions.  As a practical matter, September
temperatures will be cold by flat land standards with overnight
lows at or below freezing.  Precipitation is always possible,
and in frozen form is not unlikely.  Alpine conditions are a
good rule of thumb in terms of outwear, tents, boots, etc.

There have been no major fires in the SNRA so far this summer.
There was a whiz bang of a range fire on the hills near Hailey,
Idaho, 60 miles south.  However, ranger and timber conditions
continue to be dry and it's only mid-August.

Dan Yurman            | dyurman@igc.org          | 43N
PO Box 1569           | dyurman%igc.org@stanford | 112W
Idaho Falls, ID 83403 | MCI Mail: 364-1277       | -7 GMT
From: roat@rrc.chevron.com (Suzanne Roat,Chevron,(510)242-5313)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Fontana Dam
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:00:02 GMT
Reply-To: roat@rrc.chevron.com
Organization: Chevron, Richmond, California

In article 15136@cis.ohio-state.edu, akins@cis.ohio-state.edu (gregory adkins) writes:
>A few days ago someone posted a reply to a request for camping
>areas along the East Coast.  The reply suggested Fontana Dam
>which was "south of there".  Since I did not see the original 
>posting, I do not know where there is.
>
>Could someone give me more exact locations.  E-mail please.
>
>Greg Akins  Akins@cis.ohio-state.edu


South of Knoxville, TN heading for corner of North Carolina, Georgia, and TN.
Beautiful area and relatively uncrowded.  West of main Great Smoky Mountains
tourist areas.

---
Suzanne Roat				Phone:	(510) 242-5313 Voice 
Chevron Research and Technology Company		(510) 242-4647 FAX
100 Chevron Way				Email:	roat@rrc.chevron.com
Richmond, CA  94802-0627
From: mark@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Mark Webster)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Going to Oregon
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:11:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Originator: mark@morningstar


In article <1992Aug12.164047.977@ensoniq.com>, tim@ensoniq.com (Tim Scharping) writes:
|> 
|> Due to circumstances beyond my control I find myself heading
|> to Portland next week with absolutely nothing to do once I 
|> arrive.  Since time is short, I am looking for some quick info
|> on places to camp/hike within a reasonable ( ~2 hours) drive of
|> the Portland airport.  I will be in the area for 5 days.  
|> 
|> Thanks for any info!!!!
|> 
|> 
|> Take Care--
|> 	--tim
|> 
|> PS: do I need to obtain a camping permit???
|> -- 
|> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|> Timothy Scharping       Internet: tim@Ensoniq.COM
|> Ensoniq Corporation	UUCP: ...!uunet!mimsy!widener!gvls1!ensoniq!tim  
|> Malvern, PA  19355
The Veneta cancellation huh?  They should have a gathering somewhere and pray
for Jerry's recovery.

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.outdoors.fishing
From: rtaylor@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Roger Taylor)
Subject: Re: Wanted Large FLATBOTTOM-CHEAP!!!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:11:18 GMT

allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:

>>   You wanna see something that *REALLY* takes off?  Check out my 10 ft. jon
>>   boat. . .twin 150 Evenrudes!
>>
>>I get this great mental image of a boat with bow pointing straight up
>>in the air, engines not even visible above the water...

>Kinda like those old pictures of the Titanic ;-)

 How about the picture of a charter type boat owned by Shakespear fishing
 tackle, roaring down the channel between piers (no wake area) at Ludington
 Mich. hitting the incoming rollers at the mouth, going vertical at the top
 of the wave and sinking like a rock stearn first.
From: french@cs.yorku.ca (Lori French)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose vs. Elk
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:36:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: yetti.1405
Distribution: world
Organization: York University, Dept. of Comp. Sci. - Toronto


  Ok, so how about caribou?  I was under the impression that
   elk and caribou were the same.   This could become confusing...
From: rsk@aspen.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 22 Aug 92 14:31:21 GMT
Organization: Cardiothoracic Imaging Research Center

In article <wallich.714437510@pepper> wallich@iti.org (Kenneth Wallich) writes:
>rsk@aspen.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:
>
>>>Well, my wife and I had a great time in Colo. backcountry.  We stayed mostly
>>>in the forests, Pike Roosevelt, etc and now I know why.  We went to RMNP
>>>and they did not allow dogs in the backcountry!!! I think that sucks!  [...]

Please check your attributions carefully.  I did *not* write the material
quoted above and attributed to me.   (For one thing, I'm not married;
for another, unfortunately, I haven't been in the Colorado backcountry
for nearly two years. :-) )

---Rsk
From: mbessire@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Mike Bessire)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:47:09 GMT
Subject: Re: South Dakota Backcountry
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

     I lived in the Black Hills on and off for about 20 years, and there is 
some beautiful country up there. If you enjoy hiking, you can always hike up 
the Harney Peak trail which begins at Sylvan Lake. It takes about 3 hours, but
provides you with a breathtaking view of the surrounding countryside on a clear
day. At the top is an old rock fire look-out and small reservoir. Also from
Sylvan Lake is the Needles Highway with gorgeous rock spires along the way.
    You can also see some beautiful country climbing Elk Horn, driving up to
Deerfield Lake, Pactola Lake, and stopping in Deadwood for some legal gambling.
    If it is hot out, stop in Keystone or Hill City at the Double D drug store
for some ice cream. My parents own the Double D in Hill City, so I may be
biased a little.
    I don't know how much vacation time you'll have, but some of those ol' farts
like my dad can tell you more about the off-the-beaten-path country.
    Enjoy your visit.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Bessire                         EMAIL: mbessire@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Company                 PHONE: (208)323-5776
Network Server Division                 MAIL STOP: 363 
11413 Chinden Blvd                      LOCATION: Bldg 3 - J5
Boise, ID  83714-1023                   FAX: (208)323-2107
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:24:55 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research Labs

In article 3070031@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com, bingham@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (David Bingham) writes:
|>
|>  I too have to put in my two cents worth. I bought a Whisperlite because
|>the size and weight seemed attractive. I found the flame control to be a
|>MAJOR pain. I couldn't get a decent simmer out of it to save my life. It
|>seemed to blow out when pressure ran low as well.
|>  I decedided to pony up another $50 for a Peak I and now I would never go
|>back. It turns out that the only real issue, IMHO, is the bulk. What is
|>apparently an advantage in the Whisperlite isn't really the case. The
|>weight saved is made up for by needing to bring the fuel bottle. Per-
|>haps that's just a rationalization on my part. The thing that made the
|>difference in my mind was the ease of lighting (no priming) and the
|>much better flame control. 

I have been using a Coleman Peak 1 stove for about three years and have been
very pleased with it. But I have the MulitFuel version which is somewhat
lighter with a larger fuel capacity than the standard Peak 1.

Besides being easy to light and having good flame control, it has been
completely dependable - always works, always lights the first time, never
leaks (if I release the tank pressure).

Before getting this stove, I managed for 15 years with a SVEA 123. Looking
back, I wonder why I put up with it - always tempermental about lighting,
always requiring cleaning and with only two speeds (ROAR and OFF).



---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research Laboratories
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: Backcountry Coffee:  Heresy!!!!!!
Keywords: caffeine tea anecdote
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:24:29 GMT

In article <36Sh02ux1enk01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, jjh00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com 
(Joel J. Hanes) writes:
|>   a pot of water and gave each a cup of Morning Thunder,
|>   and had a cup myself.  The change in attitude was
|>   wondrous to behold -- in five minutes time our spirits
|>   had lifted, ambition had returned, and they had retrieved
|>   the maps, and were eagerly planning a long day for the morrow.

Ahhhh. Chemicals, chemicals ...

---
Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"In this selfish age, public-spirited
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | acts were left to the individual, and
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | what could the individual do on his
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / | own?"        - Adolfo Bioy Casares




Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Groenke <kevin@ssc.space.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Info Requested, Far North Minnesota
Organization: Shepherd Labs
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:58:00 GMT

The entire northeast corner of Minnesota is called the Arrowhead region. 
From Duluth north to Canada and back along the border to International
Falls, finally from there back to Duluth.
I suppose it's called the arrowhead because some P.R. Person looked at it
and said "Look it looks just like an arrowhead!!".
As far as I know there isn't an abundence of indian arrowheads in the
area.  I do know there is an abundence of varied geology, geography,
hydrology, sociology etc..  And especially in the BWCAW an abundence of
beauty and solitude.

P.S. There are a number of archeological digs in the Arrowhead Region, 
many of which are being undertaken by the Leach Lake Band of Chippewa
Sioux.  The team is made up of self trained archealogists.  The Sioux
call in the Univ of MN  AFTER they find artifacts so that the University
can see what has been found, and help out in any way they can, or get in
the way.

I thought this was interesting so I pased it along.

 GOODDAY!!
***********************************************
Kevin J. Groenke	
Student Lab Services Coordinator				___			o		 					_	o
Shepherd Laboratories							_____		( 		\-						(  	\-
University of Minnesota						___		(*) \ (*)			(*) \ (*)
From: shimizu@unix.SRI.COM (Dan Shimizu)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Sawtooth Natinonal Rec Area: INFO Needed
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:11:41 GMT
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, California

Hello,

I am planning a backpacking trip to Idaho's SNRA this september, and I have
a few questions. The last time I went was about 12 years ago, and I kind
of want to revist some of the scenary I saw then. I plan on going for two
weeks or so.

Here's my questions:

How crowded do the popular (Stanley Lake, Iron Creek, etc.) campsites get? Do
I need reservations?

What is the weather like? I'm bringing my gortex shell, do I need winterish
weather gear?

I think I know the answer to this one, but I'll ask anyway...did the fires 
affect the SNRA at all?

Thanks,
DAN

BTW I plan on going to Goat lake which is off the Alpine trail, has anyone
been up there lately, and could you report on it?
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eman@niepce.foto.lpc.ethz.ch (Eric Maniloff x4440)
Subject: Moose & Elk
Organization: Phys. Chem. Inst. ETH-Zuerich/Switzerland
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 09:08:19 GMT

Big question here!  What is the difference between a moose & an elk?

Is there a difference?  I thought that moose were expanded versions of elk,

but someone found a dictionary saying moose:  common name for elk.

What's the deal here?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eric Maniloff						eman@ppc.lpc.ethz.ch
Physical Chemistry Laboratory				tel: 41 1 256 44 40
ETH-Zentrum, Zurich					fax: 41 1 252 34 02


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry