HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 07:06:58 CDT
From:         "(McDonald James C)" <jcm5337@USL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

I don't see how people can learn writing without models.  If they aren't
provided, students will seek them out.  Models don't all have to be professional
writers or canonical works.  Writing groups allow students to become models for
each other, showing each other the strategies they are trying to meet the
rhetorical situation.  Teachers sharing their writing in all its messiness are
providing models.  The study of models is a way to get at the demands and
opportunities of different rhetorical situations and discourse communities,
the stuff that hasn't been formulated and often can't be.
  What models to study and imitate and how to study and imitate them has always
been a matter of debate.  Are you an Asianist or an Atticist?  The 18th-
century belletrists enshrined Addison and shafted Shaftesbury.  We offer
great ideas readers, multicultural readers, readers based on modes, patterns,
aims, one reader just on environmental issues.  But students don't just
imitate the content--they interpret it and form opinions about it.
    Jim McDonald
From: WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU (Wes Chapman)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Basic writing, again and again
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:30:42 GMT
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              6 Oct 1992 08:04:38 EDT from <MROSE01@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

mer--
   Point taken about keys; you won't find much in Eb in Hedges' repertoire, or
for that matter in much New Age music.  However, I'd argue that there are good
as well as bad reasons for this.  The bad reason is that much New Age music,
especially acoustic and electro-acoustic guitar (ma thang), has its roots in
folk music and its 60's revivals, which as a form which tended to privilege
vocals over instruments hardly encouraged experimentation with different keys
(sorry about tangled sentence).  If you don't have to play with a sax or clarin
et or other instrument which plays in Bb or Eb etc., there's not a lot of
incentive to learn to play in those keys. That's the bad reason.  However, I
think that NA guitarists (I'm not speaking for the rest of the tribe now) do
experiment in other ways.  Both Hedges and DeGrassi, for instance, experiment
a great deal with alternate tunings on the guitar, which allows them a much
greater range of _tonalites_ than you'll find in jazz guitar music. Open string
s sound much different than stopped strings, so altering the notes available
as open string notes within a key changes the tonal character of the music;
jazz guitarists tend to stick with the same, slightly muted stopped-string
tone, even when an open string is available, precisely because open-string
tones ae not available when they play in Eb etc., and they want to stay
reasonalby consistent (since they can't control the _mix_ of open and closed
tones as guitarists who use alternate tunings can).  In short, if you listen
for variation in keys in Hedges' music, you're listening for the wrong thing.
Incidentally, the innovations for which Hedges is most famous--his two-handed
taps, slaps, etc.-are largely made possible by his use of carefully thought-
out alternate tunings--and therefore by the limitations of key that you
decry. . .
back atcha,
we're a ways from computers and writing but _I'm_ having fun,
Wes
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:46:52 EDT
From:         Wayne Butler <USERGGBY@UMICHUM.BITNET>
Subject:      Need help with C and W Conference

This message is addressed to megabunnies who have had a hand in hosting previous
been charged with coordinating vendors and sponsors.  I'd appreciate it if thows
information packets and vendor contact lists.  If anyone else out there has
some ideas about who they would like to see represented at this year's
C and W, please forward appropriate names and phone numbers.
Wayne Butler
English Compostion Board
University of Michigan
Angell Hall 1025
Ann Arbor, MI     48109
(313) 747-4534
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:15:00 EST
From:         Joel Nydahl <NYDAHL@BABSON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: class size

Lisa -- At Babson College in Wellesley, MA (only slightly smaller, I think,
than UCLA), we just successfully defended our old standard of 20 in a comp
class and 30 in writing-intensive "content" courses.  Our only other "pure"
writing course, Expository Writing, also has a cap of 20.

I hope this helps.

Joel Nydahl
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From: RONRON@USU.BITNET
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Subject: Re: Basic writing, again and again
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:10:52 GMT
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Wes -- my personal response to new age music, even new age jazz, is that it is b
   eautiful in any one spot, but that is has no movement or structure, no
closure. The good thing about it, I suppose, is that it doesn't nmatter
where you start or stop. Ron Shook
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:42:33 EDT
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was cyselfe@WALKER2.HU.MTU.EDU
From:         "(Cindy Selfe)" <cyselfe@MTU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: C&C Phone?

>MBUers:
>
>Does anyone have handy a phone number for ordering
>publications from _Computers & Composition_ at
>Michigan Tech?
>
>Thanks again,
>Ray Craig
>rcraig2@kentvm
>English, Kent State University

Ray--

Best to order through the mail--we really aren't set up for telephone
ordering
although you're welcome to call if you have a question about ordering
(Cindy Selfe, 906  487-2447).  You can send your order to Computers and
Composition, Accounting Office, Michigan Technological University,
Houghton, MI 49931.  If you're sending an Institutional check, the cost is
$25.00.  If you are sending a personal check, the cost is $15.00.

Hope this helps!

Cindy Selfe

  Cynthia L. Selfe
  Humanities Department
  Michigan Technological University
  1400 Townsend Dr.
  Houghton, MI  49931

    Internet:  CYSELFE@MTUS5.CTS.MTU.EDU
    Telephone: (906) 487-2447
    Fax:       906/487-3347
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:14:00 CDT
From:         GOS@UHDBIT.BITNET
Subject:      computer anxiety

George,
   Re: Your questions on computer anxiety.  I did my dissertation on
computer anxiety in the writing classroom (completed in June) and will be glad
to do whatever I can.  Address below.  Regarding your other question, I did find
one article that defined comp. Anx. in medical terms.  I don't have it with me
today, but I'll look it up and post it to you later.

Michael Gos
University of Houston-Downtown
Gos@uhdbit
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:11:14 -0400
From:         Nick.Carbone@WRITING.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      Reply to Re: Writing vs. Computing

Gordon Thomas writes in "Re: Writing vs. Computing":

Of course knowing that (or agreeing with that, assuming that you do,
which you may not) still doesn't keep students from using the computers
as typewriters.

I've only seen one or two using our computers as typewriters beyond the
obvious invitations to do so.  The key board does mimic a typewriter in
many ways once they're in the word processing program--shift keys to get
capital letters, tabs to indent to name two.  But so far no one this semester
has used the enter to key at a line's end over much.  Most only use it at
the end of a paragraph, as they should to mark it as  such for the Micro
Soft Word 4.O we use.  They use commands to alter text (i.e. Bold, italic,
underline.)  They use commands for rewriting, copying paragraphs and sentences
into split windows, reading from one window while rewriting in another, and
other such things that can't be done on a typewriter.

Part of it may be that I use these a lot and build the use of them into assign-
ments, make them a natural part of the pattern of writing in the class and so
by sheer repetition of use, they get used by students on their own.

Part of it may be too that each keyboard has a template that list the commands
and what they will do.  They use Ctrl+F10 to save because it's faster than
typing ESC(ape) key, T L S.

I've only had to show them once.  And for some commands, students have played
around on their own, experimenting, working through the tutorials in the
program, and have figured out how to do things.  When they do, they show
the others, especially if I discover they know it.

They never feel as if they're computing when they do this.  They feel like they'
are finding a way to make writing easier.  They like it.  They believe it
helps their writing, or at least some element of it.

Is this an anomaly?
Nick.Carbone@writing.umass.edu
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:20:00 PDT
From:         Lisa Gerrard <IDR2LXG@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject:      class size

Megabunnies,

I have a request. With the budget cuts, our writing program at UCLA will be
losing teaching positions,and the administration is thinking about increasing
the number of students allowed into each class. Presently all of our
writing courses have a ceiling of 20 or 25, depending on the course.
To make our case on the unworkability of large writing courses, we
are gathering information on class size at other (especially similar)
institutions.

So, folks, what is the maximum size of your lower
and upper division writing courses?

Lisa Gerrard
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:26:08 -0400
From:         Nick.Carbone@WRITING.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      Reply to Re: Basic writing, again and again

Mer--

Did Remington Steele mean David Addison?

Nick.Carbone@writing.umass.edu
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:21:45 -0400
From:         R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject: Re: Wyoming Resolution

Oh, no!  Send to Nome for the serum--Dave Schwalm has started to sound
like an administrator.  If we don't stop him before he optimizes another
inventory, sets another goal, or mobilizes more resources, God only knows
what will happen!
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Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 15:31:27 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

 *** Reply to note of 10/04/92 10:17
 We do get isolated in English Departments. If you school has a speech or drama
 department, there's a fair to middling chance that someone on your faculty
 teaches a course in oral interpretation, readers' theater, and the like. This
 is often the kind of course Bob C. is talking about. Michale Day also noted
 that such courses were (and I hope still are) part of the undergraduate and
 graduate curriculua in rhetoric at Berkeley. A little faculty seminar I took
 at Berkeley with Robert Beloof introduced me to the aural dimension of all
 sorts of texts and to the connection between textual analysis and oral
 interpretation (either in actual readings or in actual internal "hearings" of
 texts). The two are inseparable. We have all heard oral interpretations that
 convey no analysis of the text, no understanding of it. Oral interp seems a
 little quaint nowadays, but it's pretty important. Many of our students write
 clumsily, I think, becau se they don't hear language very well.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 06:30:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Fwd: In-school networking (10)

Date: 04 Oct 1992 16:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lili Velez <lv08+%ANDREW.CMU.EDU@CARNEGIE.BITNET>
Message-id: <oenpOP200WB=4=Rnk8@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Fwd: In-school networking (10)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>


Anyone have any comments on this person's wishlist?  I for one would hate
to be in a school where the main library could only be accessed by reading
from a terminal or printing out sections of scanned books.  Can you imagine
the # of terminals required....or the print queues!

Lili
Rhet in the Blue Linen Labcoat
------------------------------
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:43:00 CDT
From:         GOS@UHDBIT.BITNET
Subject:      Computer Anxiety

George,
   Here is the citation I promised you.

   Powers, D. (1983, August).  Conquering microphobia.  *Computerworld*,
       pp 47-50.

     In the piece, Powers attempts to define computer anxiety through
physiological factors such changes in heart rate and blood pressure.  Hope
tthat is what you had in mind.  Let me know if I can help.

Michael Gos
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 08:52:58 CDT
From:         Ellen Redding Kaler <KALER@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

For Oral Interp, see Charlotte Lee (Northwestern): the great granddaddy
[mother] of interp .  Her standards--Individuality, universality , and
suggestion--may sound a little dated, but I agree that my undergraduate
preparation in this textual analysis for performance has served me well as a
precursor to teaching and professional reading, etc.
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:08:35 -0400
From:         Nick.Carbone@WRITING.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      Reply to Campus-wide e-mail

It's hard to imagine what all these labs are like (although reports from
the computer traveler are helping).  Here at UMASS we have two labs-as-
classrooms run by the writing program. Charlie Moran and Marcia Curtis
work directly with an outside vendor to maintain the systems, thus
by passing our computer services group on campus.  This has the
advantage of giving us autonomy, and since the vendor we have is good and
quick to respond, bugs get taken care of faster than they might otherwise.
The lab is occupied by classes  from 8am to 6pm, except on Friday when
there are only a few morning sessions.  Open lab hours are Sun. 1-10,
saturday none, Fridady 10-5, and M-T 6-10.  But the lab is only open to
students who are taking or have taken their college writing course in
these labs.

That makes our users a fairly small group, given the average freshman
class size of about 3,000.  Still, almost every night the labs are
full, mostly from students currently taking a course in the
lab.  That use is determined too mainly by teachers who require
drafts and peer reviews and some journal writings to be on-line, or else
they leave writing assignments only on-line so students have to come
to the lab.  However more and more students are finding other
use and are taking advantage of the software conversion program we have.
     We have one computer in the lab connected to the university's
mainframe.  Student's with email accounts use that to load and mail their
work back and forth rather than transporting a disk.
     One advantage to  the set up is that often you'll see four or five students
from the same class in the lab at the same time. They find each other and some-
times start working together, having in effect a little class of their own.
Kinda nice.  It's nice to not having to share the labs--they'd be overrun and
would leave students in the course displaced.

Nick.Carbone@writing.umass.edu
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Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:22:28 CDT
From:         Bob Boston <S2.RSB@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Welcome Mike Hassett!

Hey, y'all!  Say Hi to Mike Hassett, one of our new PhD students, who'll be
arriving at MBU's electronic campus on Monday or Tuesday.  Mike's teaching in
the Writing Lab this semester.  He began as a skeptic only four short weeks
ago, and now here he is-- a Megabunny who's already developing his own
Daedalus Question Series.  Welcome to MBU, Mike!

Bob Boston
Iowa State University
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 09:26:08 CDT
From:         Ellen Redding Kaler <KALER@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Defining HyperCard and Hyper

I too petitioned to have PASCAL count as my second language requirement in the
PhD program in English at the University of Kansas.  I had to take the undergra
duate level computer programming course and also create a program in my discipl
ine.  (For the French reading course, I learned ohow to use a French dictionary
!)  The next semester the graduate advisory committee decided not to allow comp
uter languages any more, but I would have fought for the sense it made in my pr
ogram had I been a semester later in my own process.
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Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 21:04:57 EDT
From:         "(JOHN JOHNSON-EILOLA)" <jeilola@MTU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

So Martin--are you saying that imitatio is a postmodern strategy?
--

- Johndan Johnson-Eilola                                  jeilola@mtu.edu
  Humanities Department                              jeilola@mtus5.bitnet
  Michigan Technological University
  Houghton, MI 49931
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:53:00 EST
From:         BURT@BRANDEIS.BITNET
Subject:      RE: class size

Our comp. classes at Brandeis have 15 students. (That's one of the few things
we do right!)
John B
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Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 20:16:30 EDT
From:         mer <MROSE01@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

Johndan:

              Imitatio as a post-modern techne; hmmm.
              Actually, you know me.  I think post-modernity
              consitutes an imitatio of the avant-garde strain
              of high modernism.

                                     You know, Mona Lisa with the moustache

                                                        mer
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:07:37 EDT
From:         "(JOHN JOHNSON-EILOLA)" <jeilola@MTU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Invitation to an IRC
              92 9:37 am

Can someone keep a log of the IRC and post it to either MBU or me? The last
few times I've tried to use a telnet IRC site, I've gotten dumped
out or outright ignored (we don't have our own server at MTU). But
I'd be interested to read the responses to the article. If all
participants are willing, I think Carol Berkenkotter'd be interested
as well. (But I stress the "if all participants are willing"; I wouldn't
want critique to be cut off because someone thought the author was
watching over their shoulder while they read....; I won't pass on the
transcript if any of the participants object.)

I critiqued/proofed/PageMaker'd the article for Carol before she submitted it;
I'm interested in how it's been read & applied by others.

--

- Johndan Johnson-Eilola                                  jeilola@mtu.edu
  Humanities Department                              jeilola@mtus5.bitnet
  Michigan Technological University
  Houghton, MI 49931
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:22:44 -0600
From:         RONRON@USU.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

I loved the part about the Korean student reciting Ronald Reagan
speeches.  Explaining it is harder.  But dammit, that's the way the
people who invented rhetoric used to do it.  I had a friend who
made his students study and mimic classical forms and examples.
It worked too.  Ron Shook (ronron@usu)
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 10:24:01 -0400
From:         WENDY <WARREN@EDINBORO.EDU>
Subject:      class size

Lisa G:

At Edinboro University of PA (about 8,000, primarily an undergrad institution),
we have held the number at 25 until this year when administration upped it to
26 for 101 courses, your ordinary Freshman Comp. course. Limit is 25 in all
other writing courses except Basic Writing which used to be 15 max. and is now
20 students. I believe for lit courses, the limit is 40.
Wendy Warren
warren@edinbor.edu
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