HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Mmmm... Purple)
Subject: Co-Ed Frats
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:17:42 GMT

In article <YeyQjWC00WB40n43wo@andrew.cmu.edu> Erik Warren Selberg <es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>I do agree with both your sides of the coin; however, I think
>personally that the benefits from interacting with women as brothers
>will come to you if you're social and make an attempt at having a
>life. Which leaves the potential for very messy breakups, which could
>_easily_ tear a brotherhood apart. 

The problem we see here is the viewing of women merely as potential
sexual partners, rather than as individuals equally capable of 
friendship and "bonding."  This is a huge advantage to society in 
general for making fraternities co-ed: the eradication of such
attitudes.  

Nu?  You don't kick your sisters and your aunts and your mother
out of the family because you're afraid of potential messy breakups.
Employers don't make men and women work separately because they're
afraid of potential messy breakups.  Even the military allows men
to work side-by-side women (except in the artificial categorization
of "battle situations," demonstrably ludicrous in the Persian Gulf War);
they just have a rule against (ironically enough) fraternization.

>However, in my honest opinion,
>fraternities and sororities are like no other organization. When
>you're initiated, it's not just that you join a club; you join a
>family. And there is nothing worse than when a family starts tearing
>itself apart.

Isn't your family co-ed?  Mine is.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: False fire alarms: Are they a problem for you?
From: censtad@flash.gac.edu (Christopher B Enstad)
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:08:41 -0600
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Nov10.182833.13541@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>  writes:
> 
> 
> After being woken up in the middle of the night for the third time in  
the
> past five days, a thought occurred. Are fire alarms a problem all over  
the
> place? (false alarms specifically)
> 
> What solutions do other schools have for this problem? 
> 
> Here at Stony Brook, there appears to be no solution. My dorm is a  
24-hour
> locked dorm, so key access is supposedly required to enter. We'd assume
> that people who pull these alarms do not live in the building. Of course
> that assumption may be false. Anyway, the RAs have not caught this  
person
> (persons) and everyone on the hall is pissed.
> 
> Any other similar experiences?
OUr school's fire alarms have an inkwell built into them that explodes  
onto the person's clothing and hands when it is pulled.  The company that  
make them apparantly figures that if it is a real fire that you won't care  
if you get dirty.  But if you are pulling a prank, then it makes it that  
much more likely that someone will spot you or notice you when people  
gather in front of the building with the fire alarm.  Minnesota also has  
very strict laws about false alarms so they really aren't that  
commonplace.  
Also, they may do it once, but they'll definetly think twice before doing  
it again and ruining a set of clothes
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Censorship of material on door
From: censtad@dumaine.gac.edu (Christopher B Enstad)
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:16:39 -0600
Distribution: all

Our student senate, of which i am a member, recently approved a suggestion  
by our Residential Life Committee.

The Committee moved to send to our administration a letter protesting the  
fact that some students have stuff on their living space doors that people  
may find offensive.  Now no nude pictures were cited, however there were  
the usual allotment of swimsuit shots and other ads from magazines cited.   
This action was approved, i wasn't present at the meeting where it was  
approved but I would have voted against it.

I am wondering...does this constitute censorship?  Is it legal to do this?   
Has anyone else run across this kind of problem on their campus?  Please  
e-mail me any reply to:

censtad@nic.gac.edu

Thank you,
Chris
From: etheredg@ucs.indiana.edu (Wil Etheredge)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: REQUEST: LSU-BR E-Mail Address Info
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:34:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: lib102b_.etheredg-111192223305
Followup-To: soc.college
Organization: Indiana University

I need some info about how to locate an e-mail address for 
someone at Louisiana State University - Baton Rouge.

Thanks,

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
(  \\  /\  //             (    Mailing Address:                           
)
 )  \\//\\// il Etheredge  )       Vax -  etheredg@aqua.ucs.indiana.edu   (
(    \/  \/               (        Unix - etheredg@silver.ucs.indiana.edu 
)
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: hogue@sol.UVic.CA (Rebecca Hogue)
Subject: Frats and student societies
Originator: hogue@sol.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, B.C. CANADA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 20:49:41 GMT

Do your frats and soroities replace student societies?  It sounds
alot like what your frats do is done by our student society (except
the housing, which is done directly by our university.

I am curious about the services that are provided by frats as they 
are not allowed to exist at U of Victoria as they are not recognized
by the university or the students society.


Rebecca
-- 
*****************************************************************
Rebecca Hogue  rhogue@ra.uvic.ca 
Computer Science Student, University of Victoria
*****************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: zkessin@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Zach, the Lego Maniac)
Subject: Re: Frats
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 04:39:54 GMT

Erik Warren Selberg <es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>The exclusion of women into a fraternity (and similarly the exclusion
>of men in a sorority) is the belief that the close interaction with
>women among the brothers will cause friction between them and thus
>provide a detrement (sp) to brotherhood. What it all comes down to is
>if you allow women as brothers, you'll have them going out with other
>members of the house, and then you'll have them break up with other
>members of the house and start going out with yet a different member
>of the house. This tends to put brothers at each others' throats,
>which tends to be bad.

I'm not in a frat but I am in a group that tends to be rather small,
and over time there has been lots of interdating of various kinds. We
made up a list and found that some people in the group had had 4 or
more relationships in the group. We are not realy at each others
throats, (and we have LOTS of gosip most of the time) So I would like
to reject the argument, You can be close with a mixed group. 

>Granted, I'm sure that lots of people in co-ed fraternities (and other
>folks as well) will say that there shouldn't be a problem; but on a
>global level, this tends to be the case: in an organization dedicated
>to male bonding, women screw things up.

>[anti-flame shield up]

>ps - to respond to the coming rebuttals:

>no, we haven't hit the scenario of when we admit gay members who start
>going out with one another yet, and no, I don't know how to deal with
>it, and yes, I think it will cause the same stress if not more that
>women would

Its very easy: "have fun and be safe"

--Zach
   Zachary Kessin               
 ZKessin@cs.brandeis.edu  / real.world: I don't think the    |
 (617)736-5848           /   news server gets that group!    |
From: eraffini@lab3.smcm.edu (Eric Raffini)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Anybody at  University of Wisconsin- Madison?
Date: 9 Nov 92 02:03:28 GMT
Reply-To: eraffini@oyster.smcm.edu


I am looking for someone who can help me. I hcve friends at Wisconsin who  
might be intersted in geting on the net. Does anyone know what they need  
to do to get a students account and where thy need ot go? I would  
appreciate any information about Student access to the email system at  
Wisconsin. Please mail me direct. Thank you. eraffini@oyster.smcm.edu

 Eric
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: frats
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:25:21 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Nov6.154130.8640@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Mmmm... Purple) writes:
> In article <1992Nov6.084747.8663@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>In article <1992Nov3.042313.29333@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted "not a Terry" Frank) writes:
>>> Truth by blatant assertion?  I'm sorry, a bland dismissal by a fraternity
>>> member of articles published in over a dozen peer-reviewed journals and
>>> in every major newspaper in the country hardly counts for much.  Surely
>>> there's *one* peer-reviewed article out there that supports your opinion,
>>> no?  Or is it a huge conspiracy by the entire academic community to close
>>> off that idea?  I mean, if *every*single*article* pointing out the
>>> dangerous aspects of the fraternity system suffered from the flaws you
>>> accuse them of, surely there exists one clever professor out there
>>> with the same analytic skills that you have who can point out these flaws
>>> with a flick of his wrist.
>>> 
>>> With all due respect, I reject your argument that you are a maverick
>>> scholar better qualified than every academic out there to judge the
>>> nature of fraternities.
>>
>>So what you're saying is that not one scholar will argue the other side and 
>>then when one does you try to discredit him. Well, I give you a 4 for effort.
> 
> Mike, which scholar was that?  I'm looking for the publication?  Where is it?
> Please, tell me, I'd love to read it.  What I'm saying is that not one
> scholar will argue the other side.  Period.   
> -- 

That would be the other poster in this discussion. Technically, he *is* a 
scolar, and he *is* objecting.

Sorry about any ambiguity.

Mike
From: dfulton@aeroblue.aero.nd.edu (david fulton)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Cheat sheets
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:37:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov12.213754.19310
Reply-To: dfulton@handel.helios.nd.edu (Dave Fulton)
Distribution: na
Organization: Department of Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering, University of Notre Dame


	In my circuits class Soph. year, I used a photocopier to reduce my class notes onto a 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper.  You can still read a page fairly well even when reduce to 1/8 it's original size.
	
						Dave

-- 
The moon may be smaller than Earth, but it's further away.
From: DSCT@db1.cc.rochester.edu (DAVID SCOTT)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: fire alarms
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:20:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: galileo.1992Nov12.222005.28608
Organization: University of Rochester, Rochester NY
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

At the U of Rochester I found that there were a lot more fire alarms
in the freshman dorms (gilbert and susan B. Anthony ) than there were
in the upperclassman dorms (anywhere else). I guess that an obvious conclusion
can be drawn...
					-Gavin
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Marin Academy
From: censtad@dion.gac.edu (Christopher B Enstad)
Date: 11 Nov 92 11:02:11 -0600
Distribution: usa
Keywords: Marin Academy

In article <23836@galaxy.ucr.edu>  writes:
> I was just wondering if anybody knew anyone who, like me, went to Marin
> Academy, a small private high school in Marin County, California.
> I was just curious as to how many people read the news on internet and  
if
> anyone of those people may have gone to, or know someone who went to,  
Marin
> Academy.
> 
> --
> 
> judson@watserv.ucr.edu
i did not go to Marin Academy sorry
From: es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Warren Selberg)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Co-Ed Fraternities
Date: 7 Nov 92 21:21:01 GMT
	<1992Nov6.190210.27131@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
Organization: Senior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

ok... rather than continue an endless bickering, let me just state my
point and be done with things.

First off, I'd like to make my arguments for fraternities going co-ed
as well as sororities; however, to make things brief, I'll just use
fraternities as example. 

For the social Greek system at CMU, with _very_ little exception,
I see the transition from moving from single-sex to co-ed to be
potentially deadly to the house in question. I see that, for the first
couple of YEARS, women will NOT be thought of as equal members in a
fraternity; they will either be someone's girlfriend or "house
property." By the way, for those not familiar with CMU, the ratio is
3-1 men:women. Thus a co-ed house will probably fall into that ratio,
and thus women will be in a much weaker position to push things
through as a group (when 2/3 of the house is sexist, it's damn hard to
make them stop). I also see the break-ups causing lots of problems,
and possibly factioning the house.

As far as both co-ed fraternities go, I have absolutely no problem
with them as they are established now. I do see that they have fairly
equal goals to a single-sex house, and yes, I can grasp the concept of
men and women working as equals. However, I do NOT see what me being
in a single-sex organization has to do with me interacting with women
as equals. In my opinion, I have no problem interacting with any sex
in a professional level, regardless of their position. And if they
have a problem with me, then they've kept silent on it for quite some
time. 

If my previous postings have implied that I think co-ed fraternities
are wrong, or that women in all cases are good for nothing but sex,
then I apologize, that was not the point I was trying to 
make. I simply feel that there is a valid need for single-sex houses, and I
feel that in several cases (mostly related to houses here), the move
to co-ed would kill the house, as I do not think that the majority of
the houses on this campus (both fraternity and sorority) are mature
enough to deal with the opposite sex on an equal level amidst
relationships.

Erik

play: (412) 268-5534 (CMU-5-KEG)            _____            __   ___ 
work: (412) 268-3795 (CMU-ERYK)            /__    /   /  /  /_/  /__
else: (412) 683-0741                      /      /_  /__/  /    ___/ @cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Tipper
From: censtad@dion.gac.edu (Christopher B Enstad)
Date: 13 Nov 92 09:30:07 -0600
Distribution: usa
Keywords: Tipper

In article <EIVERSON.92Nov12121843@aiolon.nmsu.edu>  writes:
> In article <1992Nov10.063952.18759@nmt.edu> ivey@nmt.edu (Hurkamur  
Platterflutterski) writes:
> 
>    I need to know Tipper Gore's real first name.  I need to know by
>    Wednesday!  I challenge you to answer this query, don't disappoint  
me!
> 
>    -tom
> 
> Helgamunde Dagmarstrische Ludmilla Gore
> 
> Now do you know why she goes as Tipper?
> 
Because she likes her strong liquor.
From: shugrue@spatial (Leon Shugrue)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: attendance policy
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:20:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: spatial.72109561124240
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Argonne, Illinois

In article <1def56INNn6t@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> erwinaw@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Anthony W Erwin) writes:
>
>	If it's that hard for you to go to class, then maybe you should find a  
>factory job.  By the way, exactly how many classes do you think that a person  
>should be allowed to miss? 
>	 I don't see any real reason to miss class unless there is a serious  
>conflict such as illness.  You now that you're paying for that class don't you 
                                ^^^
Glad to see that you make it to class yourself.

>If you don't go, you don't learn as much.  I've known guys with really bad  
>grades that are amazed when they stop cutting class and their grades go up.
>
>				Sincerely,
>				Tony Erwin
>PEROT '96!
>
>erwinaw@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: gadosy1@vax2.concordia.ca (ME, WHO ELSE?)
Subject: Re: Attendance policy
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Concordia University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:39:00 GMT

In article <92309.162902IO00052@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, <IO00052@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes...
>This post is a survey of college/universities to check on your school's
>policy of attendence.  The information collected will be used in a report

	If I may be so crude...your school's policy sucks moose weenie.  There
is absolutely no reason to have an attendance policy.  I skipped 11 out of 14
classes in one of my courses and got an A (as you can see, we have NO 
attendance policy).  The only problem is that in courses with cronic attendance
problems (55 registered 14 show up on a regular basis) the prof. will give
participation marks, usually about 10 - 15% of the final grade.  I hate going
to class, but that it no reason why I can't be an A student.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|\/\/\/|
|      |  "I want to centrifuge a kitten!!" - Gadosy1@Vax2.Concordia.CA
|      |
| (o)(o)  "Kittens grow up to be fuzzy Satanic fur balls" - A Very Smart Person
C      _)
| '____|                       RU
|   /         QT(Pi)  B4 I 4Q ----    -  Timothy A Gadosy, Esq.
|  |                           16 
|  |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Newsgroups: soc.college
From: jagreath@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH ALAN GREATHOUSE)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: This "Frat" discussion...
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:28:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncsu.1992Nov10.222854.24556
Reply-To: jagreath@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH ALAN GREATHOUSE)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: jagreath@c00100-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu


In article <BxGKDE.H42@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton) writes:

[argument about the validity of citations deleted]

If you happen to have a copy of that citation list so that I could research it,
would you kindly send it via email?  I would certainly appreciate it.

|>-- 
|>ben
|>fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

-- 
**************************************************************************
*                                                                        *
*  Joseph A. Greathouse            *  All opinions are solely mine.      *  
*  Theta Chi Fraternity            *  A non-hazing, leadership-oriented  *
*  Delta Rho Chapter               *  organization, promoting Alma Mater *
*  North Carolina State University *  and the concept of a Helping Hand. *
*  Final Score:  Wolfpack 31 - Wahoos 7  Go Pack!!!!                     *
**************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: shbanks@acs.ucalgary.ca (Scott Harold Banks)
Subject: Email address for the University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 05:02:21 GMT
Distribution: g
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta


Please send me the email address for the University of Sydney,
Australia.  I am hoping to find the address of a faculty member
in the department of geography.

Thanks in advance.
Xref: sparky soc.college:4721 misc.entrepreneurs:3228 misc.jobs.contract:4048 misc.jobs.misc:7621 misc.jobs.offered:13322 misc.jobs.resumes:6383
From: kjames@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Route 66)
Newsgroups: soc.college,misc.entrepreneurs,misc.jobs.contract,misc.jobs.misc,misc.jobs.offered,misc.jobs.resumes
Subject: COLLEGE STUDENTS NEEDED FOR WORK ON YOUR CAMPUS FOR $10+ PER HOUR
Keywords: job, marketing, on-campus, students, work
Date: 9 Nov 92 00:52:39 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: na

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an electronic application.

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Newsgroups: soc.college
From: tarra@skat.usc.edu (Tom)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Frats
Date: 5 Nov 1992 11:57:10 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

In article <aelman.720937183@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> aelman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Adam Elman) writes:

>Why can't a social organization like a fraternity be open to anyone
>who wants to join: man, woman, or anyone else?  Most every other type
>of organization in this country has made this switch; why not Greek
>organizations?

A point most of you are missing is that Fraternities are not simply social
organizations.  There is far more to being a fraternity member than going
to parties.  A fraternity is not a club that you can just join and pay dues
to put on your resume, with a few exceptions that have been beaten into sub-
mission by outsiders who think that even though they have no idea what goes
on internally in a frat that they know what is best for it.  Each Fraternity
has its own tradition and history, and asking them to give that up is like
asking a person to give up their own cultural beliefs or religion.  I may
not agree with some of the teachings of the Catholic church, but I don't demand
that it be dismantled, as you ask of the Fraternity system.  And if you don't 
agree with my comparison of frats with the Church, who cares?  It's all in
the individual perception of the organization.  I know most of my fraternity
brothers take the house a seriously as they take religion, and that is what 
you cannot and never will be able to understand without being in a fraternity.
>

>I suppose so -- the same way an all-white country club or the Ku Klux
>Klan has the right to initiate anyone _they_ want.  Doesn't mean I
>have to like the organization.
>
No you don't, and I don't have to like the Democratic political party but I 
still have to live with it, and so do you.

>Adam Elman


Tom




-- 
"Chicks dig me because I rarely wear underwear"  
					Bill Murray
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Tipper
From: censtad@dion.gac.edu (Christopher B Enstad)
Date: 13 Nov 92 09:31:53 -0600
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Nov13.020107.15018@news.columbia.edu>  writes:
> Mary Elizabeth. (Sorry to throw in the right answer, but . . . )
> 
> 
That's all right.... we've had our fun.



Heehee


If the opposite of Pro
Is Con
What is the opposite
Of Progress?
From: sr3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Andrew Rahe)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Frats
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:39:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.0eyXpMK00WBK00uZ43
	<1992Nov5.234515.29861@ultb.isc.rit.edu>
Organization: Sophomore, H&SS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


   I beg to differ, but I believe that the fraternities here ARE the
backbone of social activities. Have you ever seen the Quad on a Saturday
night? Also, around 30% of the students here are in fraternities or
sororities. I agree that APhiO is an excellent service fraternity, but
you can't really compare it to a social one. There are too many
differences.
    Also, I must say--- Jesus! How many people on this Board are new
users? There must be a lot, since no one here knows the cardinal rule...
don't argue with Ted Frank about fraternities. It's as useless as trying
to give a cat an ice-water bath... it makes both of you look stupid, and
it pisses everybody off.
                                Steve Rahe
                   (who argued about frats last year- once!)
            
Newsgroups: soc.college