HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.skiing,rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently?
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:12:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1it0k8INNrr3@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>>
>>I always define adventure as tackling those experiences which I have prepared
>>for.  Excitment is those experiences I have not prepared for.  While climbing I
>>avoid excitement like the plague!!
>>--

But preperation is not synonymous with safety.  Nor is it sufficient.
(It IS correlated.)

Unexpected circumstances arise in the mountains.  Am I the only one who
enjoys this aspect?  Or are the mountains just a giant outdoor gymnasium,
a controlled environment in which to build ones muscles?

Certainly, the mountains in winter hold surprises.  How many "prepared" skiers
and climbers are killed by avalanches each year?  Even Heli-skiing operators,
who carefully monitor daily snow conditions, can't prevent a client or two
from being killed every year.  Skiers have even been killed by avalanches in
controlled downhill ski-areas.

>In article <1993Jan11.173519@roper.mc.ti.com>,
>a722756@roper.mc.ti.com (W. Donald Rolph) writes:
>I think it was Edmund Hilary who defined adventure as some other
>poor bastard having a rough time.  Or words to that effect. ;-/

Adventure is the sense you're left with after the terror subsides.

When you're straddling the edge, it's amazing how suddenly you can find
yourself over the other side.

Mountains have no mercy.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sex@chopin.udel.edu (Martin Solo Schamis)
Subject: Utah
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:26:25 GMT

A few friends and I are planning a trip to Utah over Spring Break.
We are planning on flying into Salt Lake CIty and driving to Moab.
We will be there for a week (around Moab)
We are planning on mostly camping (backcountry) wirth at most 
two hotel nights to clean up.
I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has been out
to this area before.
Any suggestions as to where to climb or things that must be seen
in the area would be very much appreciated.
I can lead 5.10, my friend can follow the same and lead 5.8-5.9.
If anyone has any suggestions or comments about the area, please E-mail
me at

sex@brahms.udel.edu

(oh yeah, we will have a 4WD vehicle, so access roads should not be a 
problem.)

Martin.

thanks in advance for any help.

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: cpguenth@next15 (CHRIS P. GUENTHER)
Subject: Sport Climbing
Keywords: (good or bad)
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:57:34 GMT

I would like to here form you sport climbers out there and tell me why  
sport climbing is good for the sport.
From: brendan@buck.ac.uk (Brendan Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Conditions in Chamonix
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:43:40 GMT
Organization: University of Buckingham

Just thought you might like to know that conditions in Chamonix over Christmas
and the New Year were superb: more than 14 days of perfect weather (virtually
cloudless throughout) and a lot of snow right down to the valley.  Excellent
skiing.  The ice above 3500m is generally hard and black.  The weather was
still perfect when we left last weekend...

Thanks for those people who gave me information on cheap accommodation.  I have
a list of bunk-houses from the tourist office - email me if you want a copy.

Brendan
-- 
********************************************************************************
Brendan Murphy						brendan@buck.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science				Tel: 44 (0)280 814080
University of Buckingham, Buckingham, MK18 1EG, UK	Fax: 44 (0)280 822245
********************************************************************************
From: mustang@hardy.u.washington.edu (Brian Watson)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Bavaria
Date: 7 Jan 1993 16:59:01 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: world
Reply-To: mustang@hardy.u.washington.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

   I am moving back to Germany in a few days and I was wondering if
anybody could tell me of any good climbing/backpacking areas in Bavaria,
Austria, Switzerland.  I've done a lot of climbing around Berchtesgaden
(Watzmann, Hochkoenig, Steinernes Meer, usw.) and would like to know of
any other climbing, ice climbing, or expedition type stuff around Southern
Germany.
   Also, anybody who's interested: the snow in Austria is excellent this
year.  I recommend Ischgl, Kitzbuhel, Skt. Johann in Tirol for an awesome
skiing experience!

			Thanks

			Brian


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: new topic
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 19:07:19 GMT

>>Climbing is what climbers do.

In article <Jan06.210801.76814@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>I do it 'cause I'm bored.
>...not to mention, I'm no good at golf.

I get grumpy.
Can't stand tennis, golf, football, baseball, basketball.
Jumping out of planes is too short and too expensive.
Skiing's fun.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: scott.powell@amail.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Looking for a new harness
Date: 4 Jan 93 19:33:46 GMT
Return-Path: <amail.amdahl.com!scott.powell@juts.ccc.amdahl.com>

I'm replacing my harness this year and was wondering what's available?  It's
been awhile since I bought my last one, so I not sure what to get.  I'm
looking for for a good, inexpensive harness suited for top roping and
following. I've looked at the REI harness and would like to hear your opinions
on it and whatever else is available.  Please email directly.  Thanks

|Scott B. Powell   sbp00@amail.amdahl.com    Use the truth as a shield.      |
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: WILLS@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Cheyenne Wills)
Subject: Re: Beginner's  rack
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:35:10 GMT

In article <C0C1u6.HGy@knot.ccs.queensu.ca>
NorvalC@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Barry Norval Campbell) writes:
 
>
>I am planning to buy equipment for my own rack and would like to know
>what others recommend in the way of starting equipment.  ie.  What should
>I get (ie. chocks, hexes, friends, etc.) and what sizes, if I am just
>starting to build my rack and the limit of my climbing ability is about
>5.9 - 5.10a.  Thanks again.
>
>Barry Campbell
>Queen*s University at Kingston
>Email:   NorvalC@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
 
Probably the best bet is to look at what you have been using from your
friend's rack.  It also really depends on where you are going to be doing
your climbing.  Each area has its own typicial "rack".  For example: a
"gunks" rack will consist of lots of small wires, TCU's and Friends that
are tied off due to the horizontials.  A sport climbing area all one really
needs are quick-draws.  Desert climbing, lots of Friends, etc.
 
If you are going for an "average" rack, start with the medium sized stuff.
Medium sized stoppers are always a good investment, caribiners, slings.
Build up slowly and see what you need for the routes you are doing (it is
always nice to have a climbing partner who has a rack -- you can use
stuff off of it).
 
+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
| +-----+                               | Cheyenne Wills                |
| |     |       "From here on up it is  | Storage Technology Corporation|
| |  +--+--+      downhill all the way" | 2270 South 88th St.           |
| |  |  |  |                            | Louisville, Co. 80028-4232    |
| +--+--+  |                            |                               |
|    |     |                            | wills@lstc2vm.stortek.com     |
|    +-----+                            | cheyenne@stortek.stortek.com  |
+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
From: cline+@cs.cmu.edu (Kenneth Cline)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Belaying
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:50:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C0CyGD.1DE.2
Distribution: usa
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

It will probably come as no surprise to hear that I often see people
belaying with what I consider poor technique.  However, I rarely say
anything since people generally belay the way they were taught, and
stubbornly reject all alternatives.  In fact, I have even had to
defend, or at least explain, my (exquisite) belaying style to
supposedly experienced climbers, because I sometimes switch hands
while belaying.  (n.b. the really experienced climbers I have belayed
never question my style).

What I would like to know is what specific hand motion sequences are
recommended or discouraged for belaying (using a sticht plate or
equivalent) by organizations like the UIAMG and AMGA?  Do they have a
position on whether an overhand or underhand grip is preferable?  When
pulling rope in (e.g. toproping) should the rope halves coming out of
the belay device be brought together before sliding the braking hand,
or should this be done from a locked off position?  Is hand switching
recommended?

Please, don't respond with an article describing the way you were
taught to belay unless it was from an accredited instructor (NOTE: in
the US, an AMGA accredited school need not have AMGA certified
guides).  I really want to know the "official" story.  Besides, I know
what credentials it takes to teach climbing (i.e. none), so stories
about random guides are little interest.

Ken
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Belaying
Date: 11 Jan 1993 18:53:19 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <1il423INNmb2@shelley.u.washington.edu> davin@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Veale) writes:
>bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
>
>>In article <1ikh0pINNqep@bmsrs.usc.edu> degennar@bmsrs.usc.edu (Ray) writes:
>>>I
>>>>I guess I'm still searching for the perfect belay appliance.
>>>
>>>Try an ATC (bu Black Diamond)
>
>>Which were recently recalled by Black Diamond due to burring of the
>>metal which may cause rope damage during use.
>
>>Bruce
>This rumor came up a little while ago, and a few people called Bd and
>found it to be nothing more than a rumor, or at least that's what I gathered.
>I've had no problems with mine, and it has no burs.
>

Wanting to get this information 1st hand, I called Black Diamond
in Salt Lake City and this is what they told me.

An employee of REI noticed some small burrs on the inside of his ATC
and raised the question to the people in charge of the climbing gear.
REI then issued a 1-page document and sent it to their retail stores
saying that the ATC's were potentially deffective and should be
returned.  REI then inspected their stock of ATC's and found nothing
wrong with them.

After consulting with Black Diamond, REI decided that they had made
a mistake in calling for a recall and pronounced the ATC's free from
defects.  REI was supposed to post an apology letter to Black Diamond
about this incident in their stores.

So, it appears that the ATC's are fine for use and no recall has
been issued.

Hope this clears things up!

Bruce

ps - the Black Diamond employee said that most of the information
about the recall came from an announcement on a "computer bulletin
board", I wonder which one he was talking about -:) -:)


I don't know where David Veale got his information, but I took my
Black Diamond Air Traffic Controller(ATC) back to REI in Cupertino,
CA and they had a spec sheet from Black Diamond detailing the recall.
They gave me my money back.

I think this make the recall more then just a rumour.  I would stongly
caution David Veale from posting information on the basis of "That's
what I gathered"(i.e second hand) on such a subject that may have
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: daf@riviera.camb.inmet.com (Tony Flanders)
Subject: Re: Bavaria
Organization: Intermetrics Inc.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:17:54 GMT

In article <1ihnglINNlo5@shelley.u.washington.edu> mustang@hardy.u.washington.edu writes:

>   I am moving back to Germany in a few days and I was wondering if
> anybody could tell me of any good climbing/backpacking areas in Bavaria,
> Austria, Switzerland.

This is a joke, right?

The best answer is "Nah .. there's nothing worth climbing or hiking in
Bavaria, Austria, or Switzerland."

Alternatively, you could try opening a map of the area, closing your
eyes, and dropping your finger at random.  That will be a good place
to find good climbing and hiking.

    - Tony Flanders
	daf@inmet.camb.inmet.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ted@nmsu.edu (Ted Dunning)
Subject: Re: California Mountaineering Club - how safe?
Organization: Computing Research Lab
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:11:41 GMT


In article <23161@venera.isi.edu> jdeifik@isi.edu (Jeff Deifik)
writes:

   So what I am wondering, is what these people were doing with
   respect to rock climbing standard procedure for climbing desert
   peaks, or is it very poor technique? It seemes to me that there
   were many things done much less safely than they could be, given
   the equipment at hand.


actually, it sounds about par for the course for a group of people who
would like to think that they are climbers.  based on the surprisingly
low accident rates for such groups, i would guess that the real hazard
was considerably lower than it would appear to be.

this often includes the smaller rescue groups and the larger mountain
clubs.  it seems to me that working on very easy terrain all the time
tends give people very odd senses of what is safe and what isn't.  i
have seen this visiting top roping areas such as carderock where some
of the people insist that every top rope have a triple anchor and that
the belayer have a helmet and be tied in to a double anchor.  next to
this sort of set up, i saw a guy teaching his kids (about 6 years old)
to rapell using a carabiner wrap.


Xref: sparky rec.climbing:5119 rec.backcountry:9978
From: sutton@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Rich Sutton)
Subject: Re: Info. requested on climbing in Peru
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:30:41 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1993Jan10.232243.26424@csc.ti.com> czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon) writes:
>In article <86341@ut-emx.uucp> runnels@ut-emx.uucp (Scott Runnels) writes:
>
>>     I am planning on going to Peru to climb Huascaren,
>>Alpamayo, and Huandoy in June/July of this year and am looking
>>for information on routes, who the best porters (or companies
>>for hiring porters) are, and whether the political situation
>>in the Cordillera Blanca is stable.  I'd also welcome
>>information on food for expeditions (whether to take it from
>>the states or buy it in Peru) and what are good climbing
>>guidebooks for the area.  If you have any info on
>>climbing/trekking in the Cordillera Blanca region of Peru,
>>please respond.  Thanks
>
	/* policeman's assassination deleted */

>I'd consider climbing in Cordillera Real outside La Paz instead.

I'd consider another country. Some acquaintances went to the C.B. last
summer. After getting sick they gave up climbing. One headed for home
just as riots began in the streets. He felt lucky to fly out of Lima in
one piece.

The other two had decided to travel the Peru countryside. They didn't
realize that things were getting out of hand. One night while riding
on the back of a flat bed truck when they were ambushed. One got his
ear grazed. Some peasants immediately beside them fell down dead.

So here we have these two white boys quaking in fear underneath a
peasant's blanket and hoping that the third world doesn't rear up and
tear *too* big a chunk out of their hide. The bus driver talked his way
out of that mess they got home with a new outlook on life.

Some post-graduation climbing trip.

There has got to be a politically stable alternative to Peru. Or if you want
REAL adventure, leave the climbing gear at home. Show up in Peru wearing
combat fatigues with an American flag sewn on the shoulder, and take lots
of photos conspicuously...
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: cpguenth@next15 (CHRIS P. GUENTHER)
Subject: Re: Climbing trip to somewhere warm?
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Distribution: ne
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:16:39 GMT

In article <C0LGr6.2HM@world.std.com> jstone@world.std.com (Jeff Stone)  
writes:
> Is anyone else in the frigid northeast needing an outdoor climbing
> fix?  I've been thinking about making a trip with a climbing partner
> (I need one) to somewhere warm to do some climbing without having
> to wait for spring to finally get here.  Anyone have any ideas
> about suitable places?  Interested in going?
> 
> -jeff-
Jeff I too am suffering from the cold and I am planning a trip to J-Tree  
in the latter part of Feb. Im at Michigan Tech and will fly from here
to Las Vegas rent a car and drive the rest of the way. I plan on spending  
about 1 week there. My girlfriend is also coming but she likes the sun  
more than climbing plus my choice of routes are limited with her.
If you would like to go or meet us there I would enjoy climbing with you.
Im 33 years old with 15 years climbing to places all over the country  
including J-Tree. Call me if any of this sound good 906-487-9707.
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: California Mountaineering Club - how safe?
Date: 6 Jan 1993 10:51:03 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <23161@venera.isi.edu>,
jdeifik@isi.edu (Jeff Deifik) writes:
>Over new years weekend I went on a trip with the California Mountaineering
>Club. It was my first trip. The planned events were Signal Peak
>(aka Kofa Peak) AZ 4th class, Castle Dome AZ 3rd class, and Little Picacho
>Peak 6th class. It was organized by Randy Bernard, author of the first
>edition of the desert peaks section of the sierra club climbing guide.

Long horor story follows.
>
>So what I am wondering, is what these people were doing with respect to rock
>climbing standard procedure for climbing desert peaks, or is it very poor
>technique? It seemes to me that there were many things done much less safely
>than they could be, given the equipment at hand.

You gotta be kiding me!  This sounded like a Monty Python script.  I
suggest you find someone else to climb with.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: cpguenth@next15 (CHRIS P. GUENTHER)
Subject: Re: Gaithersburg, Maryland and the number 666
Keywords: Down and Out in Gaithersburg
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:49:04 GMT

In article <1ihr91INN5sa@agate.berkeley.edu> stephen@physics1 (Stephen  
Ross ) writes:
> 
> Greetings! 
Yes Gaithersburg is suburbia at its worst but there are some advantages to  
living in the metro area. New River Gorge 4.5 hours away Seneca Rocks 3  
hours away and then there is the local top ropping and bouldering areas  
Great Falls and Caderock just minutes away. There is even an indoor  
climbing area in Rockville where its safe and warm and a great place to  
meet sport climbers. 


Good Luck 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: cpguenth@next8 (CHRIS P. GUENTHER)
Subject: weather at joshua tree
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:41:20 GMT



 does anybody have any idea of the weather conditions at joshua
tree during late feb. and early march. Any information would be greatly
appreciated.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: new topic
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:15:00 GMT

In article <Jan06.210801.76814@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>,
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
|>In article <1993Jan6.193753.29638@nas.nasa.gov>
|>eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
|>>
|>>Climbing is what climbers do.
|>
|>I do it 'cause I'm bored.
|>
|>...not to mention, I'm no good at golf.

Not to mention being terrified of tidal waves.

--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.| "Spoils of war are spoils of war,
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|  says junk man, owner of the junk. 
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|  Grafitti man's got something to
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|  say. "   - John Trudell
From: elmar@ocf.berkeley.edu (Elmar Stefke)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: LOVERS LEAP INFO????
Date: 4 Jan 1993 19:44:53 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: tornado.berkeley.edu

Recently I received a letter, which contained a cut out from an REI flyer.
The topic was a restructuring of the Lovers Leap campground due to friction
with nearby landowners.  Can anyone shed some specific light on this (i.e.
something other then hearsay or speculation).  I've always thought of the
Leap's campground as being a great place to go, eventhough it may have
been a bit crowded on weekends during the summer and early fall.  Regulating
the site in a fashion similar to JT or Yosemite would be a detriment to all.
					Elmar Stefke
From: GA.MAY@forsythe.stanford.edu (mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: TCU's vs. Friends
Date: 9 Jan 1993 10:31:51 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <C0JpDu.BBM@news.udel.edu>,
sex@chopin.udel.edu (Martin Solo Schamis) writes:
>I have been wondering lately, what is the big benefit of friends over
>non-spring loaded camming units such as the Lowe Tri-Cam?  If placed
>properly, the Tri-cam provides an excellant anchor in parallel sided
>or even slightly flaring cracks, and from my experience and be placed in
>shallower cracks than a standard friend.
>The only drawback that I can see is the lack of a spring to keep tension
>in a very hard rock where the tri-cam may not bite the rock very well and
>could very easily slip out.

Don't minimize this drawback - Tricams take a lot of practice to
set.  For me, Friends have several advantages over Tricams.
You can place Friends faster, Friend placement is easier to teach
beginners, and Friends are more forgiving with rope handling:
ie, rope movement that might cause a Friend to walk a bit
is often enough to make a poorly place Tricam pop out.

>The reason I ask is that I just recently inherited a full set of tri-cams
>and I am planning a trip to the desert this spring.  Everyone I have talked
>to and every reference I have read has been almost solely referring
>to friends.  In one instance, (I beleive in the prologue to the
>book Desert Rock), the author referred to a tri-cam in a vertical crack,
>properly set, as being the most bombproof thing he has ever seen.
>Placing the tri-cams on suitably long slings would prevent rotation
>of the device, so that should not really be a factor.
>I have used both devices quite a bit and have not really found any
>drawbacks to the tri-cam.  The only real benefit of friends is their
>ease of use.  A friend can be placed and removed with much greater ease,
>but beyond that, what other benefits has anyone seen?

I carry and like to use both types.  I don't think that both
types should be considered interchangeable - a marginal Friend
placement might be a bomber Tricam slot (piton scars....)
and vice versa.   I agree that a properly placed Tricam
can often be the MOST bomb proof piece you can ever place.

My two centavos,
Mitchell