HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Phillies/Orioles Trade(Scarsone/Bell)
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:28:13 GMT

In article <23562@oasys.dt.navy.mil> efindler@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Edward Findler) writes:
>
>I'm sure Juan Bell will be an all-star pretty soon, as is the case with
>most former Orioles(see Martinez, Denny and Finley, Steve just for starters).

So you would play Steve Finley over Devereaux?  Or Brady?  Or Orsulak?
Why?  If Finley were on the Orioles, he would still be the #4
outfielder.  Why get excited about a .329/.387 performance, even if he
does have speed?  (Of course people are making a fuss over Lofton for
even less.)

Cheers,
-Valentine

-- 
Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: RC/27 for 2Bs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 16:50:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.051010.4289@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:

>There are (or used to be) some restrictions about jumping teams; once you
>had competed for one country in any international competition, you couldn't
>jump to another country's team.

Is that the case?  If so, how can Zola Budd jump from the South African team
to the British team and back to the South African team?

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: AL RC/27 Leaders
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 17:47:19 GMT

In article <23512@oasys.dt.navy.mil> hambric@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Stephen Hambric) writes:

>Question:  Have you attempted to somehow sum these RC/27 stats for all
>the members of a team and compare the result to the actual runs scored
>by the team as a sanity check?  I have a hard time believing that some
>of the guys on this list are more valuable offensively than others (John
>Olerud better than Big Cecil?), probably because I still cling tenaciously
>to RBI as a worthwhile stat.

I personally have not, but I believe Bill James' conclusion was that there
is usually a maximum of a 5% difference.  I believe David Tate has posted
something to this effect as well.
>
>***** Once again, this is not intended to be a flame *****

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: aaron@juliet.caltech.edu (Packman, Aaron I.)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Protected Lists
Date: 20 Aug 92 09:10:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug19.155812.17053@cs.tulane.edu>, eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu writes...
>In article <1992Aug19.151933.6622@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca>, sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha) writes...
>> 
>>On another note: I read yesterday that the Marlins were warning other teams
>>that "expensive older players" may be taken by them, if they were not
>>protected.  Personally, I think this is a bluff so that some teams will
>>protect guys like Bonilla and Murray instead of prospects.  It would be 
>>interesting to see the Marlins take an old, over-paid player though.
> 
>	I think picking up some older players (if left unprotected)
>might be a good move.  Of couse I saaid older players, not OLD players.
>Bonilla is 29 if I remember correctly.  He should have a number of good
>years left.  He's expensive but the added attraction of a "star" on the
>team should cover that.
> 
>	Murray, at 34-35 if <i remember right, is both too old and too
>expensive.
> 

Why would an expansion team bother to draft these older, expensive players
when they can get the same through free agency?  To take an example from 
the Cardinals, why would the Marlins or Rockies take Ozzie Smith (who will
certainly be left unprotected if the Cards don't want him back or can't
sign him) instead of some young(ish) prospect.  Sure, Ozzie's the sure future
Hall-of-Famer and a big crowd draw, but he'll be a free agent anyway.  Also,
if the expansion teams just draft youngsters, who are always bargains these
days, then they'll have extra money to go out and sign free agents in the off
season.  So it pays twice over to just draft prospects--it allows the teams
to stock up for the future while providing extra dollars to get a couple
vetrans or aging crowd-pleasers.

Aaron Packman
aaron@caltech.edu
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: What's a cycle?
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:21:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <1992Aug18.155536.2561@rigel.econ.uga.edu> jvariyam@ada.stat.uga.edu (jayachandran n variyam) writes:
>Could someone pl. explain:

>  a) In the 15-0 Braves blow out of Pirates there was a
>     mention of L. Smith completing a cycle.  What's a cycle?

A "cycle" is a trivia stat - getting one each of the possible
safe hits in the same game; single, double, triple, homerun.
It's pretty rare.  I've never seen one in person, though I
did once see someone get a HR, triple and double in his first
three PAs, followed by, I believe, a K and another HR.
This is a vague memory from my youth, so it could have been
on TV.

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fuzzy@leland.Stanford.EDU (Daniel Zappala)
Subject: Dodgers 4 Reds 3
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 22:22:12 GMT

In article <bbn-redsU2aD415pe@clarinet.com> clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI) writes:
>
>	The Dodgers committed a season-high six errors.

Yow, a new season record!  Will wonders never cease??!  They had played
two errorless games, so I guess they got a bit antsy and let loose once more.

>	Rodriguez, a rookie outfielder called up by the Dodgers July 22 from
>Class AAA Albuquerque, hit a two-out double in the ninth to score Eric
>Karros from first base with the winning run. Earlier, he hit a two-run
>homer off starter Jose Rijo in the second inning, his first big league
>home run.

A 412 foot blast!  Yeah!  Who needs Strawberry and Davis!  Let
Rodriguez develop and then next year bring up Billy Ashley (and of
course Mike Piazza).  Let some expansion team sign Davis and trade
Strawberry for a closer, like, ummm...  maybe Wetteland?  ;-)

And now the relevant Charlton Info for all the fellow Charlton haters:

>	The Dodgers tied it 3-3 in the eighth. Mike Scioscia walked and
>pinch-runner Tom Goodwin was sacrificed to second by Dave Anderson.
>Goodwin stole third base and scored on a wild pitch by reliever Norn
>Charlton, who was ejected from the game a few minutes later for arguing
>with umpire Tom Hallion.



Daniel
world's only Dodgers&Giants fan; stay in SF!!!
From: sgs@milton.u.washington.edu (Steven Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Wells/Gaston
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:57:17 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In last night's game in Milwaukee, Toronto Blue Jays starter David Wells
posted the worst Game Score since I started keeping track 5 years ago.
Here's the line:
			IP    H   R  ER  BB  SO
	  Wells L,7-7   4.1  11  13  13   4   1
		HBP: Surhoff by Wells, Fletcher by Wells

The Game Score is an mind-boggling -16.

Now most starting pitchers wouldn't ever get a chance to accomplish this
feat.  Most probably would not remain in the game after giving up 5 runs
in 3 innings.  Those that finished 3 innings would almost certainly have been 
removed before they allowed 3 more runs in the 4th. And surely no manager
would send the poor schmoe out to start the 5th inning trailing 8-2. Right?

Wrong. Mr. Wells has the unique privilege of pitching for Cito Gaston,
perhaps the major league managing fraternity's pettiest, most self-centered,
and smallest excuse for a man.  USA Today tells us that Cito was "trying 
to save his bullpen." But the real reason Wells was left in the game was that
Pobre-Cito was still hurting from an incident that occurred, what, over a year
ago now?  Seems Mr. Gaston felt Mr. Wells showed him up when he tried to
remove Wells from a game in the middle of the 5th inning last year. Wells
was not pitching well, but the Jays had scored a lot of runs to lead the game
and Wells wanted to finish the 5th to qualify for the win. Wells did not
react well when Gaston yanked him.

Well now Gaston has exacted his revenge on Wells. Oh, how his tiny mind must
have enjoyed watching Wells roast out there.  Never mind that his team is
in a tight pennant race. Never mind that every game counts. Never mind that 
the Orioles had won earlier in the day. Never mind that Gaston does not 
exactly have an embarrassment of riches in the starting rotation, and he might 
just have to rely on Wells in a tight situation later this year. Never mind 
that it must have been excruciating and demoralizing for the other Jays 
players to watch their starter get kicked around and their manager not doing a 
thing about it. Cito got to show Wells what happens to people who make him look
bad, and that's the most important thing in Cito's mind.

I've been pretty indifferent about the AL East race. I've never been much of
an Orioles or Jays fan.  But last night Cito gave me a good reason to cheer 
for the O's to pull it out. On the other hand, if the Jays win the East, I
can still look forward to watching Tony LaRussa manage circles around Gaston
in the ALCS. And then Gaston will get fired, won't he?

And I'm not saying this just because Wells' performance totally trashed my
Rotisserie team's ERA.

--Steve
-- 
 sgs@u.washington.edu             * 
 Steve Smith                      * "We want a pitcher, not a belly itcher." 
 University of Washington HR-20   *    			-- Bill Plummer
 Seattle, WA 98195                *
From: dave@IMMACC.PREPNET.COM (Dave Castiglioni)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dream Team
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:18:51 GMT
Organization: 'Immaculata College Data Center'

Voice Phone: '(215) 647-4400 ex.440'
EMail: 'dave@immacc.prepnet.com'
Name:'Dave Castiglioni'
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]


In article <23449@oasys.dt.navy.mil> efindler@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Edward Findler) writes:

>I noticed that nobody picked Jose Canseco for their dream team.  Perhaps
>because he would kill somebody smoking line drives with an aluminum
>bat.  If you have seen some of the shots he has hit with a wooden bat,
>I would not want to be a third baseman for any team.  Or a fan in the
>centerfield bleachers, for that matter.  Just my opinions.

>>He's Cuban, that's all.  (He would still help the Cuban team quite a bit.)

  1) Isn't Canseco an American citizen ?
  2) If he is Cuban would he hold much alligence to Cuba,  he could
     not have spent much time there.  He has no accent.
  3) Strikes me that Jose's alligence is to winning, money, and Jose.
     Not paticularly in that order.

With the ego's of players like Canseco they would want to play for the
team they felt would win.  That would not be Cuba even with Canseco.  Does
anyone know if there are olympic rules that would restrict non-US citizens
from playing for the U.S. if they wanted to.
                 
                 (This was not meant as a flame if it sounded that
                  way ooops...)

  Regards,
     Dave
--
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
dave@immacc.prepnet.com          T H E   W Y L D    //          
dave@192.102.247.101                S T A L L Y N S //
(215) 647-4400 ex.440    /////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: epp@mala.bc.ca (Lorne Epp)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dodgers 4, Reds 3
Date: 14 Aug 92 11:37:10 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

In article <1992Aug14.140808.8671@aero.org>, foonberg@Aero.org (Alan Foonberg) writes:
> In article <13AUG199216305235@mary.fordham.edu>, nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim) writes:
> |> 
> |> Did N.C. hit someone on 
> |> purpose (in the umpire's judgement), or just argue a ball/strike call, or 
> |> commit some other offense?  Thanks in advance for the info.  
> 
> I believe he was tossed for going to his mouth with his hand while standing on
> the rubber.
> 
Almost:  A ball was called because he went to his mouth while standing
on the mound.  He argued the call, and was thrown out for something he 
said while arguing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lorne Epp                                               epp@mala.bc.ca
From: jvariyam@ada.stat.uga.edu (jayachandran n variyam)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: What's a cycle?
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:55:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Georgia Statistics Department
Originator: jvariyam@ada

Could someone pl. explain:

  a) In the 15-0 Braves blow out of Pirates there was a
     mention of L. Smith completing a cycle.  What's a cycle?

  b) What are the features of a knuckle ball and change-up in
     terms of the trajectory?

Thanks. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Re: Suncoast Monstrosity
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 17:28:37 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug18.230525.13570@odin.corp.sgi.com> luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo) writes:
>>
>This is absurd! Based on this statement we should next move the Dodgers
>to Podunk, Iowa because the fans in LA have plenty of other things to do
>and the good folks of Podunk don't have squat. This statement also infers

I strongly object to your spurious allegation that the good town of Podunk, Iowa
has "squat".  Podunk is a thriving community with several family attractions.
The annual County Independence Day celebration is held at the Podunk City Park
every year, and last month the Raccoon Valley Fireworks Company provided over
_100_ fireworks in the annual production.  The sports communtiy has little need
for the Dodgers, as the Central Podunk Beanwalkers are again strong contenders
for entry into the state football tournament.  We have all sorts of big-city
conveniences, including a Hardee's.  This spring, we even got our own video
rental store.  We've had Home Box Office on cable television for upwards of a
year and a half.  Finally, Podunk is considered to be a leading contender to be
a stop on the RAGBRAI tour in 1994.  Podunk is a wonderful town and a great 
place to raise a family.  As a representative of the town of Podunk, I demand
a retraction and apology.

{garnish with smileys and bake at 400F for 30-35 minutes or until golden brown}


-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM the AntiWoofer. - Junior Stathead{tm} - I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .531/54/214 at Denver!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman)
Subject: Re: Emotional Attachment to Teams
Reply-To: clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Department of Economics
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 04:48:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.211301.19019@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>
>I never said I didn't have any emotional attachments to teams; I do.  In a
>perfect world, the Pirates would be playing their home games in a
>convenient location for me, and the Reds would be right beside them.  Every
>Pirate game would be televised, in case I couldn't make it to the ballpark,
>and the Pirates would win every game, except when they're playing the Reds.
>
>However, it's still the case that having *any* team around is vastly better
>than having *no* team around.
>

Sherri's post got me to thinking about fans' emotional attachment to teams.
Who or what are we rooting for, really?  The players - probably not.  The
ownership - hahahaha.  The ballpark - almost as changeable these days as the
players.  The logo?

I moved to Chicago ten years ago.  Over time my affection for the White Sox
has grown while my affection for the Cubs hasn't.  I have absolutely no idea
why.  I detest Reinhorn and the DH rule... it must be Nancy Faust!  Seriously,
I am completely inarticulate on the reasons behind this.  My ten year-old
daughter has developed a typical love one team (Sox) hate the other (Cubs) 
and, although she's mimicked me, her feelings on the subject are much stronger.

Any comments from the net?


-- 
Bill Coleman
clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dbloom@bnr.ca (David Bloom P025)
Subject: Re:Oriole News
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP 
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:07:08 GMT

Lu says:

>I don't think anyone will hesistate at taking Finley, Harnisch, and Schilling
>back for Glenn Davis, but why do you want to take Murray back for Milligan?
>Murray is having a subpar year for a first baseman, while Milligan's is above
>average, even when accounting for the park differences.  And Murray is 6 years
>older than Milligan.

>Or is this a case of "I want my hero back, no matter how old or how bad he
>has become"?

This sounds like the case of "I don't like Eddie Murray 
nomatter what numbers he puts up". I can think of several other
1st basemen who have put up much worse numbers this year and are years
younger than Eddie Murray. Hmm, How about Andres "no-hit" Gallaraga or
Orlando Merced for example.
From: al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Amit Likhyani)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Pirates
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:01:38 GMT
Organization: Junior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I heard Alex Cole might get DL time after injuring his leg.  Can someone
confirm this?  He really has done a lot better than I ever expected
since coming over.  If he did go down, someone post who got called up. 
I hope it
is not Pennyfeather again.  Either Garcia or Young would be fine by me.

I would not be surprised at all if the Pirates let Drabek go without making
a really serious bid.  Right now they have Neagle and Cooke in the bullpen
and Wagner in the minors.  If Wakefield continues to pitch well, the need
to keep Drabek is much reduced.  I have always felt that the Pirates were
much more adept at producing pitchers than position players.  Hopefully,
they will let Drabek go and sign Bonds by whatever means are necessary.  If
they can keep Bonds, the long term health of the franchise looks reasonable.
They will have Bonds and Van Slyke along with a rotation of Smith, Tomlin,
Jackson, Wakefield and Neagle.  If Cooke is ready they can ship off Jackson
or let Jackson go after next season and let Cooke take his spot.  I don't 
think pitching is going to be a problem.  Midre Cummings, Kevin Young, and
Carlos Garcia should be ready to help out soon.  The area that they need
some fresh blood is catcher.  The #1 pick this year was a catcher so that
problem looks to be noticed anyway by the front office.  I wonder where 
Alex Cole fits into the grand scheme of things.  I think they would like to
keep Bonds and let Cummings play right after next year with Cole as a 4th
outfielder/Otis Nixon type.  I also wonder where Merced fits in.  It looks
like he will never hit lefties and he is above league average against 
righties, but all in all is probably a slightly below average first baseman.
I would expect them to protect him and maybe eventually settle on a Merced/
King platoon at first with Young playing third.  Ben Shelton has really
cooled off since a torrid start.  That is really a shame.  A big right hand
power hiting first baseman would be nice.  I am convinced that Jose Lind
will be gone.  I heard he was being shopped, but the Pirates found no takers.
Garcia and Bell would ne a really nice double play combination.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: magyar@hss.caltech.edu (Ted Turo'cy)
Subject: '91 stats, anyone???
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:50:36 GMT

	Anyone happen to have a file w/ 1991 final stats?  I've evolved
a need for them, and I'm trying to avoid having to get my copy of the
Baseball Guide sent out here, if I don't have to...

Thanks,

Ted Turo'cy
magyar@hss.caltech.edu
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dick Williams as Manager of the Padres?!?!?
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:37:39 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <1992Aug21.052311.17200@news.cs.brandeis.edu> mfrancis@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>In a previous article, Dave DeMers muses about what might have been
>if Riddoch were fired earlier and Dick Williams were to take his place.
>I hope you were kidding, Dave!!! 

Nope, just telling it like I think

> If memory serves me right, (and it
>just might be slightly fractured in this case) Williams seemed to know
>how to handle talent on the field but didn't he run into problems
>during his previous stint with the Padres?  

Yes, players tend to hate him.  He is a bit of a jerk.  But everywhere
he's gone, he's won.  He knows how to manage his players and get
the most out of the team.

He's also a Padre superscout and has expressed interest in being
a field manager again.

If memory serves me right,
>he was the manager of the team that went to the World Series, right?

Yup. Also manager of the 1967 stunning BoSox pennant winners,
and the early 70's A's world champions.


>I think there were complaints about his managerial style, perhaps
>too dictatorial?  Perhaps too confrontational?  

As I've often said, he is aptly nicknamed "Dick"...
If a player makes a mental mistake or doesn't hustle, Williams
gets in his face and screams for a while with veins popping out
of his neck...  unfortunately, he does it more often that
I think should be necessary, however, it has always gotten 
results, until he's ticked off enough players and upper management
that they decide it's not worth it for the victories...

>But then again,
>perhaps what these guys might need is a swift kick in the back,
>which, I'm sure, Williams would not hesitate to give to any
>wayward ballplayer ...

Yeah.  Happy Jack couldn't motivate the team until after the 
All-Star break...  Riddoch has support from the owners (why?
because he's the second lowest paid manager in the majors?)
but apparently no one else. 

Major leaguers are being paid a lot of money to produce; a
manager should be able to manage his assets to maximize
wins.  If you can do that and make your players generally
happy (Leyland?  LaRussa?), great, but if it has to be
rough, tough.  

I'll be happy to play centerfield (or sit on the bench!) for the
major league minimum and have my manager work my butt off
and scream at me.  It will still be more fun and more
lucrative than working on my dissertation... 

But it won't happen and there aren't any rumors about it
either.  However, I think it's reasonable to expect to
see Williams on the field somewhere in the next couple of
years.

The Padres will probably promote Rigglesman from Las Vegas
if Riddoch goes.


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball