From: fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu (Aaron Priven)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Tunnels (was Re: Downtown CalTrain Station)
Date: 3 Sep 1992 19:13:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz (College Eight)
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <183034INN5sl@agate.berkeley.edu> lazzaro@boom.CS.Berkeley.EDU (John Lazzaro) writes:
>In article <181qikINN4g7@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu (Aaron Priven) writes:
>>
>>the streetcar lines that were never removed -- the J through N -- were
>>precisely those that ran through tunnels in the first place (or in the
>>J's case, ran on a private right-of-way through Delores Park).
>> 
>
>Are there large stretches of abandoned tunnels in SF that could be
>rehabilitated for transit use? Or are most of the existing tunnelling
>in use?  A short list of tunnels in active use would include all the
>Muni Metro tunnels, the Caltrain Tunnels, the BART tunnels, the
>Stockton tunnel and the Broadway tunnel.
 
Other than those mentioned by others so far, there aren't any that I 
know of.  Certainly no large system like there was in Chicago, say.  
Most of the industrial land that the rail would have needed to get to 
is landfill, something that would have been difficult to tunnel under.  
I know there were other railroads in San Francisco, but I don't know 
their routing -- just the SP lines, one of which is still used and the 
original line which is where BART goes now.
 
In article <1833n2INN6nq@agate.berkeley.edu> forags@yogi.berkeley.edu (Al Stangenberger) writes:
 
>The only abandoned tunnel I'm aware of is an old Western Pacific RR tunnel
>under Potrero Hill which was abandoned after it caved in due to a fire
>consuming its timbers.  All the other tunnels mentioned are in active use.
 
Not much of a tunnel, then, eh?
 
>My dad told me that PG&E once found an abandoned inter-building tunnel under
>a street in Chinatown, but that's not the question...
 
I imagine there are lots of tunnels under various parts of the city, 
but that doesn't mean they're suitable for transit use.  Hmm ... I've 
thought for a while that a Disneyland-style underground people mover 
between the Transbay Terminal, the Ferry Terminal, and Embarcadero 
Station would be a good idea, and that would require small tunnels.
 
In article <25954@dog.ee.lbl.gov> b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman) writes:
>
>Hmmmm.  There is the tunnel between the Aquatic Park and Fort Mason,
>which perhaps was part of the Belt Railway (though it may well
>have preceded it).  It is closed now, and only one track wide,
>and of course not near any proposed or likely future rail line
>that I know of.
 
I don't know what it was from, but I think it would be really neat to 
extend the future Embarcadero PCC line (which *is* being planned, 
although I don't know where they're going to terminate it) under Fort 
Mason to the Marina.  Now *there* would be a tourist line -- from the 
Ferry Terminal around the waterfront all the way to the Palace of Fine 
Arts!  It's not going to happen, of course -- they probably wouldn't 
want overhead wires on Marina Boulevard, it would block the view (not 
 
's no reason you 
couldn't run the line through the tunnel to a terminus at the piers on 
Fort Mason where the tunnel comes out.  (I can see the destination 
signs now -- "E Embarcadero     Marina Safeway.")  It is single-
tracked, but it's a short piece of tunnel and since it's supposed to 
be a tourist line anyway, it doesn't matter if the cars have to wait a 
bit while another car comes through. 
 
I know the west end of the tunnel.  Where's the east end?  Could a 
line be run from the end of Embarcadero at Taylor without too much 
interference with existing conditions?
 
 =Aaron=
 
-- 
Aaron Priven, aaronrp@ucscb.ucsc.edu or fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu
  Bring in the workers, and bring up the rails;
  We're gonna lay down the tracks, and tear up the trails. 
  Open her heart, let the life-blood flow,
  Gotta get on our way 'cause we're movin' too slow.
    -- Gordon Lightfoot, "Canadian Railroad Trilogy"