From: anderson@cs.rose-hulman.edu. (Claude W. Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Is a certain type of music bad?
Date: 7 Oct 1992 22:21:00 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
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Reply-To: anderson@cs.rose-hulman.edu
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Brody H. Finney writes
> anderson@cs.rose-hulman.edu. (Claude W. Anderson) writes:
(excerpt)
>> they had a warmup band called "Farewell to Juliet" who  
>> not only were poor musically (at least as projected through 
>> the sound system that they used there) but were so loud that 
>> it was painful and there was no chance of figuring out what they were 
>> singing about.  

(excerpts again)
> I totally differ on this analysis of this show, particularly the 
> condemnation of Farewell to Juliet.  
> To say they were poor musically is completely
> meaningless...what you mean is that you don't like their style of music.  

Notice that I was very careful to qualify my statement about 
the quality of their music by saying "AS IT CAME THROIUGH THAT SOUND  
SYSTEM".  But apparently I wasn't careful enough, since Jeff and Brody  
thought I was don on their musical genre.My goal was not to put down  
Farewell to Juliet, but to bring up the problem of music that is too loud 
and mixes that don't allow you to hear the vocals above the 
instruments.  Every now and then I got hints that I could
like their style of music if it weren't at a volume that was
pushing the limits of what the equipment could handle (a lot
of distortion) and loud enough to be painful.  There were
MANY of people around me who had their hands over their ears!
And i don't think it had annything to do with musical style.

Today I got a very nice email message from Jeff Elbel 
(guitarist/songwriter for Farewell to Juliet) in response 
to my post last week.  He told me that he was also very
concerned with the sound situation when the concert had
to be moved inside, and asked the pastor to announce
that people might want to consider using earplugs, etc.
He explained some of the technical reasons why it had to 
be loud:

Here is what he wrote:

> The problem lies in setting up a P.A. in a church auditorium which
> is a converted basketball gymnasium.  These structures are acoustically
> terrible, with all sorts of echo and feedback problems.  Intense noise.
> Why amplify at all, you may ask, what with all those rippity frackin
> noisy amplifiers?  The answer:  for a rock combo to play, there must be
> a balance among the instruments, and you CANNOT TURN DOWN DRUMS.  Therfore
> other instruments must be turned UP to a comparable volume.
> 
> Yes we were loud.  Darn loud.  Our drums were NOT miked.  Please try to
> believe me when I tell you I was concerned about this from the outset
> and tried to get our mix as QUIET as possible.  I also asked the pastor
> to recommend that people put cotton or tissue paper in their ears, if
> not ear plugs.  He apparently did not do this, as he had other things on
> his mind.
> 

So it's now clear to me that blasting us out was not the band's intention.
But still it happened, and it just happened to be the most recent example on  
my mind when I wrote a response to someone else who complained about  
concerts that assault the ears.  I apologize if I came across as 
maligning this band.  That was not my intention at all.  

(Brody again)
>Granted it may have
> been too loud considering the audience was there to see an acoustic  
musician,
> but the show was scheduled to be outdoors, where problems of this sort are
> easilly rectified-leave a balanket were you want to sit, and go somewhere  
else.
> 						   

 I agree.  Here is part of the response that I sent to Jeff this morning.
 
> I do not wish to undermine the message that you want to get
> across (at least I think I don't; after the concert I had no
> idea what your message was).  What I said wasn't aimed
> mainly at you.  It's just that when  the article that I
> responded to was posted, you were the most recent (and
> loudest) example in my  mind.  My problem was primarily
> with the volume.  Who knows, I might have enjoyed it if I
> could have gotten past the pain and distortion to really
> hear you.      
> 
> Yes, I know the concert was supposed to be
> outside.  And if it had been, everyone could have
> stationed themselves a comfortable distance from the
> stage (for some that would have been quite close, I am
> sure).  I personally think that when it was moved inside,
> you should have said, "Sorry, our sound doesn't really
> work in such a contained space.  We'll do it another
> time!", rather than subjecting the audience to such loud
> music with no discernable message.
> 

While I was in the middle of this followup, Jeff's articles appeared
on my newsreader. Since Jeff publicized his letter to me, I thought I should  
share a bit more of my response to him:

------------------------  Beginning of quote from my letter ------------
You wrote
> As you know doubt know, music is a powerful tool for
> reaching out to people who may not be receptive to other
> forms of communication from Christians.

I agree wholeheartedly.  For example, Phil Keaggy (when he was still with  
Glass Harp) had a lot to do with my decision to follow the Lord.  
I missed my high school senior class trip to go to a GH concert.  So it was  
obvious that music influenced me greatly.  Had there been good Christian  
rock when I was in high school, I probably would have come to the Lord  
sooner.

But the apostle Paul wrote (I Cor 14):

Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or  
harp, how will anyone know what is being played unless there is a  
distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call,  
who will get ready for battle? ...  So it is with you.  unless you speak  
intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are  
saying?  

How can you "reach out" when no one knows what your words are?
Please consider mixing your sound so that people can hear your message.

I would be very interested in knowing what the lyrics of your songs are.   
And if they come across better on tape than live, I would be glad to listen  
to a demo tape.  If indeed the message is clearer on tape that in that  
restricted live setting, I will be more than happy to say so in the same  
public forum (rec.music.christian) in which I criticized F2J. 
------------------------  End of quote from my letter ------------

I want to reiterate.  The purpose of my post was not to dump on my brothers
in F to J, but rather to point out a general problem.  From the responses to  
my article, it's clear that a lot of people agree that excessive volume is a  
problem at many Christian concerts.  It's also clear that some people like  
to have their ears assaulted.  There's room for all of us!

Maybe what is really needed it a "loudness rating system" for concerts so  
that those who are interested in really hearing (during and after the  
concert) can be warned ahead of time. As a result of our previous  
experiences, my wife and kids decided not to risk attending the Steve Camp  
concert tomorrow.  That's a shame!  

Unless others wish to continue the discussion, I will say no more on this  
"loudness" subject in r.m.c.  I think I caused enough trouble already.
 

--
Claude Anderson
(812)877-8331
anderson@cs.rose-hulman.edu    -  NeXT mail welcome