From: rls@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Ray Swartz (Oh, that guy again))
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Carol Moseley Braun (was Re: Women in Politics)
Date: 9 Apr 92 08:58:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux1.1992Apr9.085839.9356
Reply-To: rls@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

LG = Leon Gross
TP = Terry Parks

LG: Twice, when you call the League of Women's Voters the League of
LG: Sexist voters.

TP: I guess you continue to be confused. I guess this could be called
TP: Politically Correctitosis.

LG: Please find me one person on then net who agrees with you.  I have 5
LG: so far.


	Well, Leon, he has one.  I don't necessarily agree with all of his
examples, but I agree with his main point.  Before you turn on your
flamethrower, which seems to be on automatic, read the following point, in
response to something you said, and really THINK about it.


LG: What's your problem with her? [meaning Carol Moseley Braun]

TP: She's a racist and sexist bigot.


	Supposedly, according to Terry, she made a statement along the lines
that (I don't have an exact quote) "I will represent the people of Illinois,
especially blacks and women".  This is a racist and sexist statement, whether
or not she said it, which is a different point.  Assume that she did for the
current argument.  You do not seem to recognize this as a racist and sexist
statement because it is PC racism and sexism (it's PC to be against white
males).

	Suppose Dixon had said "I will represent the people of Illinois,
especially white men".  I'm pretty sure, from reading your posts, you
would be climbing flagpoles to proclaim that we have a sexist and racist
Senator, because he is favoring a group based on race and sex.

	I believe Terry's point is, "What's the difference?"

	I agree with him, there isn't any.

	Now, whether or not she said this I am not sure.  I seem to remember
you (LG) posting a quote from her that said this, when you were saying there is
nothing racist or sexist in her statements.  If you didn't, I apologize for my
mistaken memory.  It was a long time ago in a tiring, and boring, flame war.




	Another point of your's Leon [to Terry]...


LG: You have called the League of Women's Voters, Carol Moseley Braun,
LG: and NAACP racist and sexist.  


	Again, please think about the following before flaming.  I will not say
anything about the League of Women Voters (no "'s" after "Women") because I am
not fluent with what they do very much.  But lets look at NAACP, as I know the
basic idea, and it's easier to explain.

	If I give money to the NAACP to use in their scholorship program, who
will they give the money to?  I think it is a good bet (100% is pretty good)
that they will give it to a black student.  There may be white students that
are more needy than the black student it goes to, but nevertheless, it will go
to the black student.

	Why?  Because he's black, of course ('colored' in the 50's style of the
name).

	Sounds like the only factor affecting the decision is the color of the
student.  That seems pretty racist to me.

	Suppose I start a program to give scholorships to only white students,
no matter who is more deserving.  I'll avoid the NAAWP name, because it already
exist, and is associated with the KKK, which I agree is a racist organization. 
Think of whatever name you want, but the whole point of the organization is to
give scholorships to only white students (but, of course, anyone can join my
organization, just as anyone can join the NAACP).

	Is my organization racist?  I would think so, and I believe you would
think so as well.

	To set your mind at ease, I do not support racist organizations, so I
wouldn't start one of my own, nor will I ever contribute to the NAACP.  If
there was a non-racist NAAP, though, with no color (or sex) specified, I would
contribute.

	Again, what's the difference between my organization and the NAACP? 
None, all we've done is to apply a photographic negative, and reverse the
color.

	So, Leon, I ask you, why isn't the NAACP racist?  


[Memory extract from long ago follows, I make no claims about it's accuracy]
	I believe it was in CA (I may be wrong here) that some students took
the Charter of the Registered Student Organization "The Organization of
Hispanic Engineers" and replaced "Hispanic" with "White", and then submitted it
to the University to register their own organization.  As in the original, it
was stated explicitly that anyone may join, regardless of race.
	Guess what happened.  The University refused to accept it, as they
would not allow a "racist organization".

	Certainly makes one wonder, eh?


Ray Swartz
*****************************PC sig follows*************************************
Of course I'm a white male, which automatically makes me a sexist, racist
warmongering, oppressor that keeps the Third World enslaved in my garage.
Come on by, sometime, and I'll show you how my mansion is built on a foundation
made of the bones of minorities.  Ignore the fact that I have no more voice in
government than you do, as you've already made up your mind about me anyway.
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Newsgroups: soc.women