From: amjad@otago.ac.nz
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Re. soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya-moderated.
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:53:22 GMT
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

In article <1992Nov4.131906.28711@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, njamil@nyx.cs.du.edu (Nasir Jamil) writes:
> ...
> [deleted]
> ...
>>>  =============================================
>>>  Mr. Asim Mughal and Mr. D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar both moderators
>>> of
>>>  Soc.Religion.Islam group have been asking to provide proof that S.R.I
>>>  moderators have been acting biased or unfair to postings from Ahmadi
>>>  Muslims . Both of them claim never any biased behaviour against Ahmadies
>>>  existed.  Both of them may be all out good persons but they have been only
>>>  moderators for a year or two and still tend to speak for all times. 
>>
>>Making such a claim is against the principles of Islam!!
> 
> WHAT CLAIM AND WHAT PRINCIPLES OF iSLAM ARE YOU REFERRING HERE?
> 
>>
>>>  
>>>  My dear Mughal and Azhar, people do not tend to keep the record of such
>>>  unfair treatment on internet over time and lack of proof can't constitute
>>>  to lack of unfair treatment. I am sure both of you can't provide the
>>>  record/proof of all returned postings with your comments as you yourself
>>>  admit returning some postings and getting " some heat for that". 
>>
>>The posts that are rejected have to follow a criteria.  Is it inflammatory?.
>>If not, is it relevant to Islam.  It is not rejected because of person XYZ
>>posting is an Ahmedhi or ??? 
>>
>>Therefore the charge made has to be proved or *if* it cannot be proved, it should
>>not have been made AT ALL!!  Those who follow the tenets of Islam and claim
>>to be Muslims have to abide by the principals of Islam!!!
>>
> 
> IT IS ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED BY LOOKING AT RESPONSES FROM THE NON
> AHMADI MULSIMS THAT ANY THING AN AHMADI HAS TO SAY IS INFLAMATORY OR
> IRRELEVANT TO ISLAM IN THE EYES OF NON-AHMADI MUSLIMS. JUST AN EXAMPLE
> HERE, IN PAKISTAN AHMADIS ARE NOT TOLERATED TO PRACTICE THEIR FAITH BY
> LAW BECAUSE IT  "HURTS" THE FEELINGS OF OTHER MUSLIMS. WHAT WILL YOU
> MAKE OF IT IF THEY SAY WE DID NOT FORBID THEM TO COME TO OUR MOSQUE
> AND PRAY. IT IS SAME SITUATION HERE. YOU HAVE MADE THE LAWS ABOUT YOUR
> SO CALLED soc.religion.islam NEWSGROUP THAT THINGS ARE REJECTED BECAUSE
> THEY ARE INFLAMATORY OR NOT RELEVANT TO ISLAM. YOU REJECT THE BELEIFS
> OF AHMADIS BEING ISLAMIC AT ALL WITHOUT EVEN READING THEIR BOOKS
> BECAUSE YOU FEEL THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO REAED WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.
> THEY ARE NOT RELEVANT TO ISLAM. THAT IS ENOUGH PROOF OF DISCRIMINATION.
>>> ============================================== 
>>>  Rukhsana Merchant writes :" I am familiar with Ahmadiyya movement. Due to
>>>  very strong differences, it is not a sect of Islam but my understanding is
>>>  that it is a seperate religion."
>>>  
>>>  Rukhsana how many and what all books of Ahmadis have you studied to claim
>>>  familiarity and understanding. All sects of muslims differ from each other
>>
>>I do not have to read any books on Ahmadi.  I am obligated to follow the
>>Holy Quran and the Sunnah and *that* is my basis for such an understanding.
>>
> 
> 	YOUR CLAIM THAT YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH AHMADIYYA MOVEMENT.
> 
> 	YOU DO NOT HAVE TO READ WHATEVER AHMADIS ARE SAYING ABOUT
> 	THEMSELVES.
> 
> 	YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS BASED ON  QURAN and SUNNAH.
> 
> 	MENTIONS ME A QUOTE IN THE HOLY QURAN, or A HADITH of THE
> 	HOLY PROPHET (PBOH) THAT AHMADIYYA IS A SEPERATE RELIGION.
> 
> 	BY THE SAME TOKEN: DO YOU BELEIVE THE CHRISTIAN DO NOT HAVE
> 	TO READ QURAN AND HADITH TO UNDERSTAND ISLAM?????
> 
>>>   Information exchange is very common and essential in modern times but he
>>>  wish to limit the information exchange about  Ahmadiyya Islam. Rukhsana
>>>  claims to know "very strong differences" between Muslims and Ahmadi
>>>  Muslims. Azhar, Saggaf, Mughal, Insaf and other Muslims does not want to
>>>  give the Ahmadis a right to call themselves as Muslims and still do not
>>>  want to acknowledge the need for Ahmadis to have
>>>  "soc.religion.Islam.Ahmadiyya" group and want Ahmadis to use
>>>  soc.religion.Islam.
>>
>>I do feel a need for the group since there seems to be a lot they have
>>to say but by associating themselves by the term Islam, I, as a Muslim,
>>am required to standup and say NO!! to having a group called 
>>soc.islam.ahmediyya.  Thre is only ONE Islam and sects are not
>>in the spirit of Islam.
> 
> 	OKAY, HERE AT LEAST YOU HAVE ADMITTED THAT AHMADIYYA IS
> 	A SECT OF ISLAM. 
> 
> 	YOU WILL DO A VERY NOBLE FAVOUR TO DESCRIBE AND TELL EVERY
> 	MUSLIM ON EARTH WHAT "ONLY ONE" ISLAM IS "YOU" YOURSELF BELEIVE
> 	IN. MUSLIMS DO NEED TO KNOW THAT TODAY MORE THAN EVER. I
> 	BEG YOU TO PLEASE TELL US WHICH "ONE" ISLAM out of 73
> 	YOU ARE CALLING THE MANKIND TO SAVE THE SPIRIT OF ISLAM.
> 
>>
>>I, as a Muslim, am required to accept another Muslim, as a Muslim, because
>>I do not know what is in their hearts, only ALLAH (swt) knows!
>>
> 
> 	THEN WHY ARE YOU OPPOSING THE THE USE OF WORD ISLAM
> 	IN soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya IN YOUR PREVIOUS PARAGRAPH?
> 
> 
>>I am under no control why certain people are persecuted and it is 
>>irrelevant to the case presented here.  I have no control over the
>>UN or various other people cited here!!  All the mud slinging and
>>the apparent need to have the people validate the group with the
>>word ISLAM in it is NOT going to assuage the people persecuted
>>NOR is it going to prove the validity for a sect Ahmediya to
>>belong to ISLAM.
>>
>>If a group forms without the word Islam in it, I will not argue against
>>such a group.
>>
> 
> 	AGAIN HERE IS YOUR OWN QUOTE FROM THE SAME ARTICLE:
> 
> "I, as a Muslim, am required to accept another Muslim, as a Muslim, because
> I do not know what is in their hearts, only ALLAH (swt) knows!"
> 
> 	PLEASE DO NOT CONTRADICT YOURSELF, AT LEAST IN THE SAME ARTICLE!
> 
>>>  
>>>   Rukhsana Merchant says, according to majority (Muslims) Ahmadiyya is not
>>> a
>>>  sect of Islam. As such, Ahmadis have no right to use the word Islam in the
>>>  proposed news group. She fails to understand that if "majority"  is always
>>
>>Through my understanding of Islam and the words and deeds of Prophet 
>>Muhammed (SAW), I, do not believe that Ahmadiyya to be a sect of Islam.
>>They consider a man other than Prophet Muhammed (SAW) to be dearer
>>to them and that is WRONG!!
>>
>>>  
>>>  Rukhsana, Azhar, Saggaf, Mughal and other Muslims! I suggest that you do
>>>  not oppose the use of the world  Islam in the proposed news group on the
>>>  basis that majority of Muslims do not consider Ahmadis as Muslims because
>>
>>As a muslim, I am required to do so!! 
> 
> 	CONTRADICTION TO YOUR OWN BELEIF AGAIN!!!!!
> 
> "I, as a Muslim, am required to accept another Muslim, as a Muslim, because
> I do not know what is in their hearts, only ALLAH (swt) knows!"
> 
> ....
> [stuff deleted]
> ....
>>
>>Rukhsana [a servant of ALLAH (swt)] Merchant
>>
> 
> 
> I think the Rukhasan Merchant is very sincere Muslim and cares a lot
> about it. She has been grossly misinformed about ahmadiyyat. She
> beleives that as a Muslim she is required to accept another Muslim
> as a Muslim, because she does not know what in in their hearts. Only
> Allah knows that. That is exactly what Ahmadis beleive. I will
> sincerely request Rukhsan Merchant and others, that for the sake of Islam,
> please be open minded and study the books of Ahmadiyya. I gurantee
> that you will like what there is to say. Do not hurt the feelings
> of Ahmadis by trying to take Islam from them. How will you feel
> if someone tries to take your last name away from you?
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Nasir Jamil.


Well done Nasir Jamil.
Amjad Tariq, New Zealand.