From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Time mechanics, healing and aiming
Date: 6 Sep 92 06:41:27 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

In article <1992Sep5.094350.58655@cc.usu.edu>, slp66@cc.usu.edu writes:
> OK, this is a tangent off the Time Mechanics arguement, but I mention it
> because it is dealing with the realism issue.  Let's say you are getting healed
> after a AD&D fight.  You've taken, oh, 20 hit points.  Your Cleric walks up and
> heals 19 of them.  You know, when you wake up tomorrow, the one  hit point is
> healed by sleep.  Fine.  I think that's ok.  
> 
> Now, GURPS.  You are in a fire fight.  (TL7) You get hit with, say, an M-16,
> that does 2 points to you (after getting through your armor).  Your medic walks
> up to you and does first aid.  After 5 minutes, the medic rolls a 6 sided dice
> and hey, you get 2 points back...your healed.  Now, how did that happen.  You

Well, there are two issues here. First, healing in AD&D is instant with magic,
and overnight without, while in GURPS a small amount of damage (up to three
points) can be healed in 20 minutes by a successful first aid roll. Personally,
I don't see a problem with either of these situations. The second issue is your
example, which is totally unrealistic. M16s in GURPS do 5D6 damage and the
normal TL7 flak jacket is DR 4. It is *not* typical for an M16 to do only two
points of damage to a TL7 character after armor -- average damage would be 13
points after armor. Say the gurps character is helped with first aid. This
heals 3 points max (as opposed to the 19 points healed in AD&D) and leaves the
remaining 10 points to be healed one per day with successful health rolls.

> were shot and wounded.  THen, 5 minutes later....your are healed.  THis wound
> should take at least a week to heal, maybe longer.  There just isn't any
> realism.  

Ridiculous. On average, in GURPS, this wound would take between ten and twenty
days to heal. Your example required the minimum possible damage from an M16 in
order to work.

> Ok, now, why do I think that AD&D is more realistic?  Well, it centers around
> the one minute round.  You can still move and fight.  If you get hit on, say
> the 20 second mark, you've still 40 seconds to adjust (you know, scream, whine,
> moan, complain, die, etc).  As somebody in this thread has pointed out, not so
> in GURPS.  Every second you can get hit and not notice it.  Let's say I'm
> playing GURPS.  (TL7) I'm aiming my gun at a target say, 200 yards away.  The
> round before I shoot, I get shot.  Let's say I've got good armor and the bullet
> does no damage.  Does the impact of a piece of metal traveling at 2000 feet per
> second and impacting me with 800 foot pounds of force even affect my aim? 
> Nope.  Thats just not real.

Let me turn your example around. In AD&D you have a paladin with a really good
armor class. He gets into a fight with two ogres and a hill giant. His armor
class is so good they can't hit him. Every round he is pummeled by powerful
blows from extremely strong enemies who bounce 10 lb clubs off his armor *much*
harder than little pieces of lead and yet it doesn't hurt his aim even a little
bit. Even if they hit and connect it doesn't hurt his aim.

Is this realism?

As for the bullet hitting with 800 foot pounds of force, the impact is largely
absorbed by armor, and that's why it doesn't hurt the character or throw off
aim. If it actually had penetrated armor then the character would have a
penalty equal to the number of points of damage to its attack roll. I fail to
see any such rule *at all* in AD&D or any other D&D variant, and I've played
them all.

Now I agree that GURPS has some problems with realism, but anyone who seriously
thinks that AD&D has the advantage on GURPS in the area of realism is not
playing with a full deck. AD&D is simply not designed to be a simulation of
tactical level combat; GURPS is descended from a tactical one-on-one combat
boardgame.

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
The more corrupt the government, the greater the number of laws -- Tacitus