From: ggm@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (George Michaelson)
Subject: Re: Goebbels' diaries reviewed by Irving??
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:11:48 GMT

geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:

>In article <ggm.711615324@brolga> ggm@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (George Michaelson) writes:
>>
>>How to be a "real" historian.... NOT!
>>

>What is a *real* historian?  

Wouldnt have a clue. Does that mean I cannot say that whatever it is, Irving
doesn't seem to fit the bill? 

If I thought enough 'difficult' but in some sense 'true' things were
going to come out of Irvings work to justify the pain of accepting
them, Then perhaps yes he is a 'real' historian. In the spheres of
Holocaust studies, Hitler studies, I'm not sure what contribution he is
making that he alone can do, or that has significant merit.  If you have
an insight on this I'd welcome it. (no sarcasm intended)

>Despite the distaste for Irving's opinions,
>I think it might be better to try to be objective about the
>work, although I know that might be impossible for those who
>lost their families in the holocaust.  

Better for who? And Objective about what? I'm worried that Irving is not
himself capable of being objective. Past acts and statements do colour
this issue. If he is beginning to change his mind on some 'matters of
fact' (as has been alledged) then he will have more than a little
repudiation of past work to do, won't he? 

If his role in the British far right is to repudiate their more peurile
fantasies, I'd have expected him to seek to ensure this was known in
the widest possible circles, avowedly anti-nazi press like 'searchlight' 
included. 

His written work may have merit. His public stance and role in
sensationalist journalism such as the Hitler Diaries does not appear
to.

As I understand it, he promoted himself (with support of vested
interests such as the German press) as an expert to pass judgement on
the material. He recognized it for a forgery and stated so at a press
conference, in a way that maximised his own press standing and return,
he recognized the end of the "7 day wonder" effect and (again publically)
changed his mind in a statement to re-attract press attention, and then
finally when the show was milked dry, went back to the forgery
position.

This is basically (yes, paraphrased and probably inaccurately) what the
book on the Hitler Diary Fiasco, recently televised in the BBC (I have
a pre-TV show copy and only found out about the dramatization some
years after the event) states.

The book is called "Selling Hitler" by Robert Harris, Faber & Faber 1986

I think it reveals a darker side of Irving and others, who seek to
benefit from studies in this area. The realms of vaguely obsessed
millionaires with hidden collections of forged Hitler paintings, the
Marquis of Bath and his memorabilia collection.

I doubt if  Hugh Trevor Roper (Lord Dacre) comes off any better in
this respect. He too doesn't seem to have the discipline(s) required to
act as the voice of time (which to my mind is what a Historian sets out
to do.) dispite an intense personal knowledge of the closing moments of
the war.

> I haven't found Irving's
>works to be what those who haven't read them say they are.
>Read them and see.  They don't deny the holocaust, but support it.

But to what extent? and with what qualifications? To what end?

Don't you hear even the faintest whisper of "... and he came so close
to realizing the dream..." in his work? Its certainly the air I am left
with from his more public persona.

I freely admit to bias. I participated in anti-nazi pickets in the
later 1980's, I marched against the National Front wreath-laying at the
cenotaph in remembrance of dead Fascists, and at Brick Lane on the 50th
anniversary.  If I cannot rid myself of this particular burden, I should
probably abstain from criticism of Irving, but you'll understand its hard.

	-George
--
                         George Michaelson
G.Michaelson@cc.uq.oz.au The Prentice Centre      | There's no  market for
                         University of Queensland | hippos in Philadelphia
Phone: +61 7 365 4079    QLD Australia 4072       |          -Bertold Brecht
Newsgroups: soc.history