From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:49:37 GMT

pepin@CAM.ORG (Jean Pepin) writes:
: His post is not fact-free. For CDTV by example, the 2 principal people are
: left right, we can extrapolate the sales are very low right, the affirmation

1), your first fact, is correct.  2), your second fact, sales, is
correct, however you're looking at it differently than the rest of the
market is.  It's not that CDTV is selling poorly, because it's not,
CONSIDERING WHAT IT IS.  It's a home multimedia player, it's marketed
and named as such.  New kinds of applications for computers are going
to take time to make inroads.  Even Phillips will agree with that,
they expect to wait several years before it becomes popular.

: CDTV is dead is logical with the fact and for me is a good thing because i
:dont like game and my view about computer is with no game. The money taked for
: make this naive phantasm was directly removed to the developpement of was
: vanguard Amiga native and the result was to stop this vangardism.

But that does NOT make it a fact, and it was displayed as such.  CDTV
is OBVIOIUSLY not dead.  And just because you don't think it's a good
idea doesn't make it so.  Your opinion, nor Marc Barrett, display what
the people behind it think.  This is Nolan Bushnell's baby, as someone
else so clearly mentioned, and he thinks it will work.  I'm iffy on
the subject, but I see the value of having something like it, so I'm
probably going to buy it soon.

He was careless.  He was stretching his facts.  And worst of all, he
was blatantly and obviously lying.

You can't defend that post, there's nothing there worth defending.
Marc has his good days of posts, and his bad days.  This is the worst
day for Marc Barrett I've seen in a long time.  He's never been that
careless and thoughtless.  Not before, anyways.

: In what base do you make your hope, can you elaborate? Are you sure they
: are conscient?

Yes, they're conscious.  How do I base my hopes?  They're working on
the types of things that I KNOW will help.  They're now selling an
interface creator called "ToolMaker" to developers.  That's good.
They're working on AmigaVision, a road that gives them distinct and
obvious inroads into multimedia, both private and public use.  That's
good.  They've made leaps and bounds with the capabilities and
inclusions of the operating system.  Arexx was the most intelligent
thing C= has ever done, and support for it on local bulletin boards is
astronomical, to the point where people with A500's are asking how to
use it to interface programs and getting answers.  It's not that they
don't know how, it's that they KNOW THEY CAN, and that they are
LEARNING.  Many thought Arexx would be something that only got use
from "power users".  It's a Good Thing.  They're working on new
technologies, and everyone knows that will help.  They develop new
high-end, and, more importantly for C=, they develop new low-end
systems such as the 600 to get more market accessibility, and that's a
good thing.

:You don't care is not a reply, CBM too don't care. I just want share your view
: but YOUR affirmation about MB is NOT fact-filled to date.

I've given you the most obvious fact you need:  He tried, as in the
past, to pawn off opinion as fact.  How can you trust his facts if his
facts and opinions look alike?

: And you, you believe what? The spirit of CBM? Where you read CBM doing
:something last time. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the last public intervention
: from CBM was "Please user write to deamon to tell him Amiga is not dead

No, it wasn't.  The last C= thing I heard about a product publicly was
that AmigaVision was being rewritten.  I read that TWICE.  It was
posted once in csa.multimedia, in reply to someone's plea for a
standalone program, and then in reply to MB's hasty post.

: How do you explain Toaster not fitting in 3000, is it possible than NewTek 

IT IS NEWTEK'S FAULT.  Period.  The 3000 follows the form factor C=
set aside to use in Zorro specifications.  The 3000 has room for that
and just a little bit more.  The 2000 has room for that and a LOT
more.  Rather than designing it with the specification, they used the
available space in the 2000, obviously more than what they should
have.  They must have figured that C= was just kidding when they said
not to make it bigger than this by this and gave them room for that
and more in the 2000.

: was not in the confidentiallity of CBM? Is it possible CBM push the paranoia
: to consider third party as competitor? Maybe Marc Barrett know the real story

Maybe he does.  Maybe not.  The point is, lots of people know the true
story.  Lots of people don't portray fiction as fact, too.  I advise
you to trust in one of them.

C='s folks are some of the most helpful and honest people here.

: When are you surprise by CBM last time? For my part i'm surprise always by
: their imprevisible stupidity. The best help they need is to be replaced by
: intelligent people. 

No.  They've done extremely intelligent things.  For instance, let's
take Merisel Distribution...  Some of the ads I've seen for CDTV, a
home multimedia player...  etc.

: Are you heard that from Marc Barrett or from a source with a kind of charism
: fitting with your attempt. Explain me the mecanism this explanation of lowell
: story correspond to your believing if is not a non-disclosure information you
: fail with this revelation.

: Your theory of development is interesting, send your CV to CBM you have good
: chance.

Everything I know about the Lowell situation I heard from one of the
people at C= here.  I believe it was Dave.  He'd mentioned that the
ULowell project was never meant to be a production project...  C= was
just funding some research.

: More or less few months of difference, i'm not saying at the same time.

Not even that.  Some things NEVER get out of West Chester.  Like some
research projects and prototype machines.

: Give salutation from my part to Gail.

I would if I could:  I don't know Gail Wellington.  It is sad that
she's gone.

: Why your opinion is good about CBM, Apple has never announced Apple III, Lisa
: or IIgs is dead. Is PC Junior is dead?

They've stopped producing it, yes.  C= did not kill off CDTV.  Don't
you see that yet?

: WHY you don't want people know is the logical part, without WHY = irrational.
: Apple tell something, see the reply to P. Kittel about that. CBM comportement
: is obsessive paranoia.

If this keeps up, I'm going to just give up on the rest of the post.
You seem to have this need to believe that C= is crap and getting
worse, while some believe C= is crap but getting better...  You seem
to have this need to trust someone who lied.

Be my guest.

: My fact is how much sales. We need CD-ROM for computer at same price they 

Sales doesn't make much of a difference YET.  Don't you see that?  Its
an emerging technology.  It's going to take time, and that's logic.
Phillips is expecting a three-year-long introduction.

: exist on the PC not a Nitendo console. At this you cannot plug a CDTV to a 
: 3000 nor put 68040 on the CDTV. If you are game oriented don't loose your 
: time to reply, in this case our different is clear and cannot be resolved.

You could put an 040 into the CDTV, I imagine.  That's not the point.
I'm not going to buy one for games, I'm going to buy it for several
things.  I want the collection of Shakespeare's works, the Illustrated
Sherlock Holmes, and an encyclopedia and dictionary.

Hopefully, I'll be able to get more books-on-CD.

Greg

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(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
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