HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: buckwheat seed (caution)
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:40:04 GMT
Organization: NRL

Hi fellow veggies (and others) ---

A recent posting asking for buckwheat recipes got my attention because the
poster (Drew) mentioned the groats had been intended for planting.  I would
be very cautious about eating anything bought as seed for growing purposes, 
unless it is specifically marked as organic and/or untreated.  Reason is, many 
commercial seeds are treated with all sorts of nasty stuff (e.g., captan and other 
fungicides) to ensure a higher germination or seedling survival rate.  This 
might not be done with buckwheat, for all I know, but you really ought to 
check before eating it. Sorry if you already knew this, but I was worried ---
the world needs more vegetarians, not fewer... (;-}).  BTW, you can eat buckwheat 
groats for breakfast, as hot cereal (although I much prefer Kasha Varnishkas, for
dinner).

Also, for the person(s) requesting seitan recipes a while back, I wanted to
mention that Arrowhead Mills makes a good mix for making seitan at home.  It's
a tedious process but not continuously time consuming, plus you can make a big
batch and freeze portions of it for later use. There's some connection with 
Brother Ron --- some of his recipes are given in the small booklet included with
the mix. It's available at food co-ops and organic/health-food supermarkets (at
least here in the DC area). 

                                                   Cheers, Judy 
                                               "I am not a number!"
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 08:41:12 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <altar.714807622@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>>One might
>>playfully speculate, if we were to adopt such a Freudian "inlook",
>>that some of this surrilious and derisive name-calling of
>>vegetarians as we have all witness as occurring on this 
>>conference from certain omnivores, might well stem from
>>an symbolic anal evacuation of the constipated.   :-)

>No, I think it's more a sense of paranoia on your part and on Traub's.

My gawd, you really are not reading very carefully what I write.  This 
short posting was meant as a joke, a humorous application of some Freudian
notions for those who just might be a little familiar with such things.
Remember the context?  Ted Feuerbach jokingly asked (as indicated by
his smile) what Freud might think about this colon cleansing stuff.
I responded in kind to his light remark with an equally light reply.
So, lighten up, my friend.  Did you NOT observe the simile and
are you not familiar with Freudian concepts and how they can be
"playfully" parodied?


>I think this comment of yours (which you repeat over and over and over)
>is simply out of line.  There has been no name calling of vegetarians
>here.  Period. 

Remarkable!  You just called me a "prick" in your previous posting to 
this one.  That prettly well belies what you are here trying to
claim.  Period.
.
                                              ted
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Why doesn't ice cream freeze solid?
Date: 23 Aug 92 21:00:17 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <freshair.714566227@vincent1.iastate.edu> freshair@iastate.edu (James W Gregory) writes:
>I've developed a recipe for vegan ice cream using oatmeal milk
>(similiar to rice-milk-based Rice Dream).  It's soft and creamy right
>after it's prepared, but freezes into a solid block of ice if it is stored in
>the freezer.
>This has made me wonder--why doesn't "real" ice cream (or any of the
>vegan ice creams) freeze up like this?  No matter how long it is
>stored in the freezer, store-bought frozen deserts always seem to be
>at least "scoopable".  My home-made concoctions always seem to require
>an ice pick after a few hours in the freezer!  
>Is it the vegetable gums (Xanthum, Carragean, etc.) they add or what?

Sugar, protein, fats and gums all tend to act as "antifreeze" by
reducing the formation of ice crystals.  Too little of any of these and
you tend to get rather a unpleasant consistency and a tendency to
freeze solid.

In my experience, sorbets (the only frozen dessert I make regularly
which would qualify as vegan) need a fair amount of sugar to achieve
this.  Skimping on sugar gives the dessert a gritty quality.  Usually,
the sugar is a sirup of sucrose (taking into account the means by which
it's purified) or maple or diluted corn sirup.  You also want to churn
it fairly well as it's first freezing, and place any uneatened portions
in the freezer immediately.  The churn-free "ice-cube tray" method of
making ices and ice creams is easy, but it won't give you a consistency
like the commercial stuff.

I avoid the problem by making sure it's all eaten before we need to
freeze it.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Indian cookbooks
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:56:27 GMT
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA

In article <shenoy.714401403@pv0213.vincent.iastate.edu> shenoy@iastate.edu (Shiva Shenoy) writes:
>
>The most comprehensive one I have come across is 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Author:         Devi, Yamuna, 1942-
>
> Title:          Lord Krishna's cuisine : the art of Indian vegetarian Cooking
>                   / Yamuna Devi ; illustrations by David Baird.
>
> Edition:        1st American ed.
>
> Publisher:      New York : E.P. Dutton, 1987.
>
> Description:    xiii, 799 p. : ill. ; 27  cm.
>
I second this opinion.  The book is expensive (around $30), but comprehensive,
and well worth the price.  My SO bought a copy after I mentioned I had heard
it was a good cookbook, and has been working his way through it (with me
as the main beneficiary :-)).  One of these days I'm going to buy my own
copy - the recipes are really good.

Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: The problem of summer pets
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:56:58 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
In-reply-to: abulsari@abo.fi's message of 31 Aug 92 13:11:54 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.131154.3022@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:

   In this country where I  live,  many  people take  pets for summer and
   discard/abandon  them at the end of  summer. I  read  this in  a local
   newspaper, on  the very  day I  found an  abandoned cat in  the common
   kitchen, a few days back.

   Is this normal in many places or is it just the Finns who do this ?

It used to be a frequent occurence here, but at Christmas time, not in the
summer.  People used to give cats and dogs to children as Christmas presents;
if the children lost interest, the pets would sometimes be abandoned.  Animal
care charities have been fighting a big publicity battle against this every
winter, so maybe it doesn't happen so much any more.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Who is who on rfv - Version 3
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:03:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.155351.9807@uoft02.utoledo.edu> vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.060711.26235@abo.fi>, abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
>writes:
>> Version 3
>> Category 0 : Lurking omnivores (Read their postings at your own 
>> 		risk to your health)
>> Mary Shafer	not so dangerous (Her last name is misspelt as Safer)
>
>	Abhay, I have to strongly disagree with this statement. Ms. Shafer has
>	been a valuable participant in this forum, posting recipes often, and 
>	for the past three years I have been reading this forum, I have never 
>	seen her make the slightest disparaging remark about vegetarianism or 
>	vegetarians. Your comment of "not so dangerous" implies that she is a
>	dangerous, albeit a little bit - it is patently untrue. Her omnivorism
>	shouldn't be counted against her - we vegetarians, as a minority in
>	this world, need a lot of people like Ms. Shafer who are sympathetic 
>	to us vegetarians. Her few postings on this net constituting health
>	risk? Not in the slightest. You probably need to create a separate
>	category - "friendly omnivores" to classify her.
>

If you take all this seriously, imagine what  Ted F and Rich and other
omnivores might  think of me.  It  is written in a humourous tone, and
should be taken as such.   People will be able to write the one or two
lines for themselves, as we make the list serious.

Incidentally,  Ms Shafer is  still dangerous  to the health of  lot of
animals. You know  even Hitler was  vegetarian.  Now, do  you  need  a
smiley here ?

>	Other than that, I applaud your attempt.  
>
>	Siva Prasad.				vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu

Thanks.

With regards,

-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF
From: prem@prem.lbl.gov (Shirdi R. Prem)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Wanted - Indian Vegetarian Cookbook
Date: 3 Sep 1992 16:36:07 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Reply-To: prem@prem.lbl.gov (Shirdi R. Prem)
NNTP-Posting-Host: prem.lbl.gov

  john@spss.com (John Przyborowski) writes:
  ==susan@waikato.ac.nz writes:
  ==
  ====I have been looking for an Indian Vegetarian Cookbook, and have been
  ==
  ==Susan:  I just purchased "Lord KRSNA's Cuisine: The Art of Indian Vegetarian
  ==Cooking" by ? (totally blanked on her name).  Excellent, excellent book.
  ==John

	The name's Yamuna, Yamuna Devi.

	Prem!
From: hans@Software.Mitel.COM (Hans Johnsen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Ideas for a persuasive speech on vegetarianism
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:42:01 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

>Well, as you know, in Canada we have only one growing season.  One can 
>plant maybe 2 crops of peas or radishes but only 1 crop of potatoes,
>even here in "Lotus Land" on the West Coast. :-).
>Maybe in the southern U.S.  they can protentially grow 2 crops
>each year.  I really don't know, but if so then this would 
>explain your discrepancy. 

Yes it would. I don't think that it is the case, however. I do know that
they DON'T grow two crops of potatoes in Florida. They only grow a winter
crop. I also know that potatoes are more susceptible to disease in hot
weather (which is why Canada is a leading exporter of seed to central
and South America) so it may be that it is too hot in the summers in
these climates to allow an effective second crop.
-- 
Take off all your clothes and walk down the street waving a machete
and firing an Uzi, and terrified citizens will phone the police and
report: "There's a naked person outside!" - Mike Nichols
From: Jane.R.Deering@dartmouth.edu (Jane R. Deering)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: butter vs. margarine
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:33:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Aug25.233308.14524
 <1992Aug17.135050.25378@rtf.bt.co.uk> <28669@wissel.GBA.NYU.EDU>  
 <1992Aug21.002748.23263@news.eng.convex.com>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0d55@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Aug21.002748.23263@news.eng.convex.com>
tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes:

> So called low-fat milk, labelled 2% milk, is ~35% fat by calories, and
> thus does not fall into the guideline that things labelled low-fat must
> not contain more than 30% fat by calories.  Sometime they're going to get
> caught.  It's only low-fat in that it's less than whole milk.

Could you explain what you mean by 35% by calories?  Do you mean that
35% of the calories come from fat (a claim I would find easy to
believe) or that 35% of the milk is fat by some calorie-related
measure?  I find that intriguing but difficult to swallow (so to speak
;-)), so I'd be interested to hear more -- and I'm posting this because
I think other people would be interested as well.  

Incidentally, if you mean that 35% of the calories come from fat, it's
a useful but relative measure -- by that I mean that one should also
consider the total number of calories & total amount of fat by weight.

Jane Deering
fury.eyes@dartmouth.edu

(slightly nervous about posting after reading so many flame wars -- but
taking a deep breath and trying anyway!)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Moscow State Circus
Date: 24 Aug 92 16:07:07 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

This is concerned more with cruelty to animals. I was wondering if anyone has
any information concerning the Moscow Circus? They are touring here at present
and are stopping here in Hamilton. I have heard that the SPCA (Soc. for the
protection of cruelty to animals) is advising people not to go because the
circus uses bears, horses and other animals and has a bad reputation.
I remember seeing a documentary about bear training for dance, using hot coals
and whips to make them stand. 
I'm sure there will be some kind of boycott and possibly a protest to be
organised. I was just interested in knowing a bit of background for myself.
Sorry if this is slightly off the beaten track for rec.food.veg. 
-- 
Tom Higham,		        "If ever somethin' don't feel right to you,     
Radiocarbon Dating Lab,	        remember what Pancho said to the Cisco Kid:
University of Waikato,	        'Let's went, before we are dancing at the
Hamilton,		        end of a rope, without music.'"  
NEW ZEALAND.		                   Sailor Ripley, "wild at heart".
Higham@waikato.ac.nz
			  
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: an idea
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 04:19:58 GMT

popcorn@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Valerie Mates) writes:

>Anybody interested in considering splitting rec.food.veg into two
>groups, one for discussion about vegetarianism and the other for
>recipes and cooking tips?
>-- 

I don't think this is a good idea.  Vegetarians or would-be
vegetarians should be interested in a larger horizon of things 
besides just recipes.  Do you really want this conference to
become a somewhat bland "home-ec" sub-group only able to
post recipes pertaining veg. cruisine akin to some other 
equally bland special food interest group that might specialized
in, say, muffins?  No doubt, some of our defensive omnivorous
kibitzers would like to seen nothing better come out of this
conference.  I think we can do and are doing, better.

It is important for all vegetarians and would-be vegetarians
to become better informed about the health, the ecological
and the ethical advantages of this dietary choice.   We already
have a specialized conference on the ethics of animal rights
and we know how that conferences has really degenerated with
the influx of self-serving hunters.  While we may
have some flames here on this conference being initiated by
some defensive and rude omnivorous kibitzers, they are not nearly
so incendiary and frequent as what you would find on many
other conferences with topics even less emotionally arousing
as that of vegetarianism.

We all need to become better informed if only to better defend
ourselves against misunderstandings and sometimes derisive 
and rude remarks that all vegetarians must contend with.
After all, we are a very small minority in a somewhat belligerant
meat-eating culture.

Anyway, I think there are other solutions besides tearing
apart what has worked as an integral whole.  Michael Traub, for 
example, suggested a weekly posting of some our more unsympathic 
and rude omnivore guests so that new readers can be forwarned
about where people are coming from on this issue.  I think
both new and old readers have a RIGHT to know who they might be
speaking to, where such people stand with respect to their
own practice.  Maybe a more comprehensive listing of all
the main contributors, their qualification in terms of
whether or not they are vegetarians and for how long 
(such info being voluntarily provided, of course).
Along with this listing could be instructions for people
on how to skip what might be a flame by way of a Kill
file of certain posters or by simply observing who is 
posting what to whom.

In sum, I think this would become a far less interesting
conference if it were further specialized into only being
a place to swap recipes.  The flaming that people complain
about is really very minimal and is initiated by only
a few omnivores.  Finally, one should first consider trying
some other less "divisive" (pun intended) solutions to 
improving this conference, which I think is already very
good.

                                        ted
 
s
From: zeke@reed.edu (Zeke Koch)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Question
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:24:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep3.162415.17506
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Ted Wagner) writes:
>
>	Due to a resent blood test, I need to back off of 
>foods high in cholesterol and fat, and eat high fiber foods.
>I'd like some ideas.
>	I thought about eating vegetarian.  BUT, a lot of dishes
>I know that are vegetarian have cheese....and cheese is high in fat.
>

This is a problem that I have had as well.  Not because of cholesterol
but because I don't eat dairy.  Many vegetarian cookbooks seem to use
cheese in almost every recipe.  (_The_Horn_of_the_Moon_ being an example)
There are a few alternatives.  The easiest perhaps is just don't put
in the cheese.  You'll be surprised to see how many recipes you
thought needed cheese don't.  

For example good pizza is great without cheese.  Notice the "good" bad
pizza is dreadful without cheese.  Try making a pizza and instead of
adding cheese on top, add more veggies and drizzle them will olive
oil. Yum!

Then there is the group of recipes that use cheese as a garnish.
Just don't use the cheese.  I'm thinking of Stuffed Peppers (Tomato
Sauce and rice in a bell pepper baked) here.  Most cookbooks tell you
to put cheese on top, just don't.

A good place to go is eastern cookbooks.  The chinese, japanese, and
Thai just don't use dairy!  Also most Indian curries and such don't
have cheese.

I think that you will find that many veggie cookbooks add cheese as a
garnish to all of their dished because they think it's necessary for
protein or something.  Don't figure.


>	So, what are some common dishes that would steer away from
>fat?  

Well if cholesterol is all you are worried about go wild with italian
food.  Just use olive oil.  Olive oil is supposed to help you break
down cholesterol.  Scientists correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

The eastern recipes are often fairly low fat.  Basically European
food should be avoided.  (Well European food as cooked by my
grandmother should be avoided :-)

>Also, if I go vegetarian, how important is this amino acid thing
>and protein thing everyone warns against out here in cow land?

As far as I know it's not but this is a matter of great debate.  I
will let those who are more knowledgeable jump on this one.

>	I know protein is important, but how important are the amino
>acids?  Which ones do I need?  Don't have to worry about?  etc.

Ditto.

>
>Thanks
>
>Ted

You're welcome,

Zeke
-- 
                           zeke@reed.edu 
"NeXT has made it possible for Tiny Tim to over-extend himself and buy
a Ferrari for the price of a Hundai and now Tiny Tim is pissed because
the gas station attendant won't sell him gas for 3 cents a gallon."
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: need zucchini chocolate cake recipe
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<1992Sep1.113150.6407@iscsvax.uni.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:47:46 GMT

On 1 Sep 92 11:31:50 -0500, howard@iscsvax.uni.edu said:

MH> In article <SHAFER.92Sep1083119@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov>, 
MH> shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:
> 
> In some neighborhoods you must always lock your car or it will be
> full of zucchini when you return to it to drive away!

MH> There is a place on earth where people leave zucchini in your car
MH> if you don't lock it rather than kicking the tires or something 
MH> worse? What a wonderful world it would be if that sort of thing
MH> occurred all over! 

Not after the third big grocery bag full!

I was hoping for tomatoes in one of those bags.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Question
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:18:22 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

[Ted Wagner asks about how healthy a vegetarian diet can be in terms
of avoiding fats, maintaining protein intake, etc]

Ted, you came to the right newsgroup.

It is a myth that a vegetarian diet is neccessarily heavy in cheese
or eggs (some individual vegetarians may eat a lot of both, but that's
another story).  Indeed one class of vegetarians, specifically vegans,
don't eat any at all.

The cheese and egg myth is probably reinforced by:

1) Meat-heavy restuarnts that provide exactly one token vegetarian dish,
almost invariably laden with cheese

2) A misunderstanding of nutrition.  Animal products are not the only possible
source of protein.  There are soy products (soy milk, tofu, etc), or 
you can combine rice and beans.  There are 20 kinds of dried beans (legumes)
so don't quail at the sound of that diet!

Eating healthy is almost ridiculously easy when you eat vegetarian or
vegan meals.  *All* cholestrol comes from animal products--eliminate
meat, eggs (except for egg whites) and dairies (except for skim milk) from 
your diet and you eliminate all cholstrol intake.  You also (with
the exception of palm and cocconut oil) eliminate the primary sources
of saturated fats.  Go easy on the oils, and you total fat intake will
go way down.

Eat a lot of fruits and veggies (you should eat at least five servings 
a day; 1 serving = 1/2 cup cooked veggies, 1 cup green leafy veggies,
1/4 cup dried fruit, or one whole fruit such as apple or pear); eat 
a lot of whole grains (e.g. brown rice) and some legumes, and you should
easily be consuming the fiber you need each day (25-30 g).

A vegetarian diet also happens to be more varied than a meat-centered
diet -- another plus, both nutritionally and for your taste buds.

Read rec.food veg for recipices, buy a vegetarian cookbook, subscribe 
to Vegetarian Times magazine (they might be able to send you a sample
issue, or your can check your local health food store or news stand).
To subscribe to Vegetarian Times, contact:  PO Box 446, Mount Morris
IL 61054-8081, United STates of America (people outside the US have 
to pay extra for postage and handling).   Some of the recipices in 
this magazine are based on cheeses, or use oil, etc., but becasue
many people convert to a more vegetarian lifestyle for health reasons
(and because vegetarian dishes tend to be healthier anyway) it
also prints many low-fat recipices as well.

Your mainstream grocery store should have enough rice, beans and other
vegetarian basics to get you started, but you'll probably find
that health food stores have a bigger variety of options (particularly
if you tend to be pretty busy, and want pre-prepared foods: look
for the Health Valley label, they have lots of good stuff).

Welcome to rec.food.veg -- and good luck on starting a healthier
lifestyle!