From: ghosh@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sanjoy Ghosh)
Subject: Re: INDIAN CULTURE - Subservient
Organization: Univ of Illinois, Center for Supercomputing R&D, Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 20:10:12 GMT

<RIPBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>  `Force' how?  Send the Indian army?  Have you thought of the total chaos
>that would ensue at the US embassy in New Delhi as a 100,000  jawans line
>up for their (tourist?  H1? ) visas?  The thought is mind boggling! :-)

That was hyperbole.  Is there an icon for that?  And pushed to it by
the binary options presented by Mr. Patel.  Anyway, what I meant to 
say was that your personal example of a lone person returning to India
and feeling helpless should not be extrapolated to the belief that no 
matter how much time, talent and money you throw at it, nothing can ever 
be done.  If a large enough number of people decide to return and act 
in a concerted manner they can bring about change with their money, 
knowledge and perhaps most importantly their attitudes.  There are 
examples where groups of friends have gone back together, setup up 
something together and made it work.  

As for India not being able to handle multitudes of returning citizens
I think it has already proven its competence, thanks to another dictator.

>  More seriously, though , consider the following quantities:
>
>X1  =  number of English-Americans  (WASPS)
>X2  = population of England
>Y1 = number of German-Americans  (semi-WASPS)
>Y2 = population of Germany(ies)
>Z1 = number of Indian-Americans
>Z2=  population of India
>
>  Let  E = X1/X2,   G = Y1/Y2,  I = Z1/Z2
>
>Now it is clear that E and G are similar in size and much bigger than I.
>But this does not seem to have set back the development of England or
>Germany.  So it is not clear that `forcing' people back to India would be
>a solution.  Not to accuse you of being a dictator, but the idea seems to
>me to be the dream of a dictator and not a well thought out one at that!  :-)

Come on, that's not fair.  Its like comparing immigrants like you to the
indentured Indian labourers in Fiji and Guyana.  Not all immigrants are
alike even though they are all immigrants.  The immigrants to this country
from GB and Ger were mostly uneducated, and poor.  Not the cream of those
countries.  Sorry if this sounds snobbish and elitist, but their value
to their country was in my opinion lower than the value of people like
you to India.

>I would say that creating better opportunities in India for people who want
>to contribute would be the right way to go.

And who is going to create those opportunities?  Is it any less your
responsibility than anybody else's?  In other words, who are you putting 
the blame on?  And what is your excuse for us not not shouldering our 
share of it?

>Just as an example, most of the best Indian mathematicians in the US are
>Barhmins (often Tamil Brahmins).  If you force them to go back to India,
>they will immediately face discrimination due to the severe quota system in
>vogue in Tamil Nadu.  I often think how amusing it is that Ramanujan is lucky
>not to be alive today and face our anti-Brahmin quota system!  (I am not a
>Brahmin).

We haven't yet turned into another Yugoslavia.  There are enough Tamil
Brahmin mathematicians at TIFR to make the returnees feel right at home.
And if Bombay is too far away, IISc is not that bad a place.

>    Also, people getting their degrees from Indian
>Universities will not be overjoyed at this sudden competition.  So such
>plans really cannot work.

Aren't you again making the assumption that the number of jobs is a
God-given constant?  And if that assumption is also assumed to hold 
for the Chosen Land how can you expect a civil welcome from the natives
of this country?  If our fellow Indians are not expected to like
competition from us, why shouldn't Americans toss us right back into
the sea.  

Sanjoy Ghosh

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian