HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Ted's Aikido Tips #1
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:45:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: moe.1duqapINN1a2
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: bose.phys.ksu.edu

In <BxLu41.3pr@dcs.ed.ac.uk> la@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Lewis Alderton) writes:


>My all time top tip is for Kaiten-Nage (spelling). Just as you are
>being thrown, reach up with your free hand and grab your opponents
>bollocks (men only). The result is often amusing.

Would it be so amusing if your PARTNER decided to knee you in the face as
they stepped through?

It goes beyond willing to accept the consequences of your actions.  If you
are going to grab at somebodies genitals to make the point that they are not
doing the technique properly, then you should instruct them to carry out the
realistic technique which involves smashing your nose into the back of your
skull.  Don't grab at their groin if you don't want them to knee you in the
face.

Me, personally, I wouldn't knee you in the face.  If you want to teach me a
lesson by injuring me you will have one opportunity.  After that I'll know
that you aren't a person who is safe to work with.

I don't know if you are aware of this distinction, but I'm sure others are: 
I practice hard, and fall hard and love to be bounced off the mat with great
force, but only if I can trust my partner.  If I can't trust you to respect
my body and dignity then I'll work really slow and soft, you'll think I'm a
total wimp, won't have any respect for me, but who cares.  Once you're gone
I'll go back to getting the un-holy shit kicked out of me by my friends.

-David Iverson

--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu
From: richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Badass Karate (-Do?)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 22:53:13 GMT
Reply-To: parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Distribution: world
Organization: Masterful Enterprises UnLimited.

In article <1992Nov2.110731.1984@ms.uky.edu> taddiken@ms.uky.edu writes:

 > It's not clear to me that all of those things are synonymous with "tough", but
 > I think that boxing and sumo should fit in there somewhere.

Yup.  I agree.  Boxers take a hideous amount of punishment, although the
_do_ get to wear gloves 8-).  Sumo is pretty much brute strength.  Takes
big guys to do it...

 > I've heard about a game played in Wales, in which two people grab each other
 > by the shoulders and kick each other repeatedly in the shins.  With hard shoes
 > on.  The loser is the first to disengage.  It's not clear that this is a
 > martial art, but it certainly is the most excruciating combat-type game I've
 > ever heard of.

I said badass, not stupid... ;)  Is it at all simialr to Irish Boxing?
There's a guy who lives around here who's a Irish Boxing exponent.  Real
mean guy.  But never having seen the Irish Boxing during training, I
couldn't say whether or not it was truly "tough"...

Cheers.
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Jujitsu
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:34:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: pogo.13923
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <1992Nov12.162045.1788@bradford.ac.uk> D.G.Legros@bradford.ac.uk (DG LEGROS) writes:
>Robert Stroud (roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com) wrote:
>: In article <1992Nov8.191148.8245@bradford.ac.uk> D.G.Legros@bradford.ac.uk (DG LEGROS) writes:
>: >I practice Ronin Ryu Ju-Jutsu, which is a variant of Samurai Ju-Jutsu and I can wholeheartedly recommend the
>:             ^^^^^^^^^                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>: 
     Personal belief and observation (FLAME)
     deleted...  
>: 
>: -- 
>: Robert Stroud       Robert_Stroud@simulacrum.wv.tek.com
>
>Ronin Ryu is one man's interpretation of the techniques he was taught.
>Ryu means School.  Samurai Ju-Jutsu, is also known as Samurai Ryu,
>These are the names of SCHOOLS of the art, NOT STYLES.  Our
>instructor left the Samurai Ryu, as they were ripping the club off,
>hence he left the assoc, and formed his own, hence the name Ronin,
>(Masterless Samurai), and as for all the students he conned, the
>Ryu consists of 3 clubs.
>
>Anymore comments?

   Don't worry I still believe that anyone can
   make up anything and teach it.  That is mankind's right
   I just think that it would be embarassing to name my system
   in such a way that native speakers of Japanese would find
   it funny.  

   Picture this "Hi Mr. Watanabe I practice Samurai
   Ryu"  

   Watanabe: "Oh,... How interesting."  Mr. Watanabe turns
   to his friend Yoshi and smiles the smile of complete laughter
   and conveys the feeling of how much more of this silly
   westerner must we endure.

   You might see the same problem if a young asian man visiting
   Texas told all who would listen that 'He was fully qualified
   to teach Cowboy Gun Slinger Shooting Systems.'  It is his right
   to do it and he might even be really good at it.  But the locals
   are still gonna get a right powerful fit of laughter out of it.

   Personally I would pick a name for my system that was a correct 
   useage of Japanese.  I would make it so that the Japanese were
   empressed with my choice of words.  My feeling is if you are 
   going to do something that represents a foreign culture you had
   better do it better than the natives or you are not going to be
   taken seriously.

   Thank you for the chance to Flame.  You have been a good sport 
   about it.  Just take what I say as only my personal rantings.


-- 
Robert Stroud       Robert_Stroud@simulacrum.wv.tek.com
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: 10th Dan
From: mark@onyx.kiwi.gen.nz (Mark Goldie)
Date: 8 Nov 92 11:07:08 GMT
Organization: Onyx Private System , Auckland , New Zealand
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

I have been told that the rank of 10th dan is not held by anyone in the
world and has not been for 100's of years, as my instructor is 5th dan
and the Kancho-Sensei of Chidokan is 7th dan, I find it difficult to accept
that there is not someone out of 3 billion people who hold a rank three
grades higher. 
 
 Mark (Only Sankyu but I'm getting there)
From: hogue@cs.arizona.edu (Justin C. Hogue)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Black Belt time
Date: 13 Nov 92 23:07:40 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson


In article <q2D6TB1w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> gbaker@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Greg baker) writes:
..Marc Seebass writes:
..True, I've been taking Tae Kwon-Do since May of 1981 and I'm only first 
..don. I'm more proud of the fact that I've kept taking for eleven years 
..than I am of the fact that I am a first don balck belt.
.
. retract my statement. I just don't think we should lose sight of what 
.the ranking system really means. It's not -just- 'experience' it's a 
.competition against yourself, to push yourself, to continue onward. The 
.Martial Arts have ranks for a reason.
.
..greg.
 Ouch! That sounds rude.  Give him a chance: some people don't "feel" the 
need for ranking or whatever.  Just because he hasn't tested yet, maybe he
doesn't feel ready, or doesn't feel the need to prove his ability.  If he
went to MA as often as I go to church, it'd take longer to get to 1st Dan
than it has already.
--Jowfus
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Age & Subtlety (was: Re: Badass Karate (-Do?) )
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:30:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24100
Reply-To: garry@alice.UUCP ()
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

In article <4131@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <61765@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>>>generate power that does NOT come from strength, speed, or muscular
>>     I'm not quite sure what you mean. There's only one way to move
>
>	I mean that instead of coming close enough to correct execution
>and then muscling through to generate power, or moving very fast so that
>your speed covers your mistakes, you learn to move just _so_ and to be
>exactly here and to be relaxed and fluid when you get there...   I know
>I'm not saying this very well.

I think part of the phenomena people are trying to describe
is that as one attains greater mastery, one also tends to attain greater
subtlety.  When you're young and strong and fast, you tend to rely on these
attributes.  As you get older, you lose some of this, but you gain 
experience and knowlege, and work out ways around your deficiencies.
The subtlety wharfie described above might be seen as "softness", as
opposed to the hard, fast, aggressive style of a "young buck"

A football analogy comes to mind.  There are a number of quarterbacks
who can avoid being sacked by dodging, darting, and using their speed
and agility to get out of trouble.  There others who, seeing a player
bearing down on them, seem to hardly move at all.  A slight shift of
position, a turning to one side or the other, and the tackler goes past,
missing them.  Ken O'brien, of the NY Jets, used to do this quite a bit.
I sometimes marveled at how, with the tiniest movements, he avoided
impending doom, barely seeming to notice.  It often reminded me of
Aikido.

-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather
From: ph2sct@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Dzu Nguyen)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Knife-fight in "Under Siege"
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:10:39 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Nov4.215850.8809@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO) writes:
>
>      Whoever saw the latest Steven Seagal film......
>
>
>      That knife fight at the end between Seagal and Tommy Lee Jones was pretty
>exciting to watch.  I had never seen that type of combat before.  Can anyone tell 
>me if this type of knife combat is taught only to Special Forces like SEALs,
>Green Berets, or SAS?  Anyone else think that scene was cool???
>
 
I saw teh movie and i thought the knife fight was very good. it was
different to say the least. My aikido sensei teaches a knife
fighting class on occasion and he and seagal sensei are buddies.
actually both the sensei's at my school (5th And 4th dan) have had
extensive knife training. i'm not sure from where though. the
knife fight at the end of under siege reminds me of a kali
practitioner in the way that they used their free hands to check the
the other person's knife hand. I'm not sure how many other arts
teach the knife to the same extent as kali though. any comments ??

dzu
other persons kiC
practitioner in the 


B
B
B
B
B
B
B
A
B
D


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: Badass Karate (-Do?)
Organization: just me
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 14:21:34 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts

In article <25441@sybase.sybase.com> thorick@sybase.com (Thorick Chow) writes:
>In article <720667140snx@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz> parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>>Yo All!
>>
>>There have been many claims to strong martial arts, weak martial arts,
>>hard arts, soft arts, easy arts, complex arts, ...
>>
>>I want to know what everyone's opinion on the toughest arts are.  My
>>personal favourites are Mouy Thai (or kickboxing), Kyokushinkaikan
>>Karate, some Kempo styles, and some Chinese styles.
>>
>>What's the definition of `The World's Toughest'?  Well, you decide, but
>>some guidelines are good fitness, full contact fighting, and mind over
>>body training.  A good philosophy is also needed to temper the skills.
>
>Well, a guy came around to a Tai Chi class I was in who said he did Kempo.
>He surprised a few people by saying that he broke his hands punching
>hard objects..  as he proudly put it:
>
>	"I must break my own bones so that I can break the bones of
>	 my opponent"
>
>just so..   this seems pretty tough to me...
>
>gosh, maybe I should have someone beat me over the head with
>a baseball bat so that when it REALLY happens, I'll be used to it !

Not so tough...He can never train to kill, can he? :-)

	David Pipes
robear@digex.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Subject: weapons in martial ar
Reply-To: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 11 Nov 92 10:46:11 EST

Wu Tai Chi Chuan - sabre, straight sword, spear, ...  I have seen forms
for the first two.

Elliott Chapin
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #4315  elliott.chapin@canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: dunger@crsa.bu.edu (David Unger)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Kuntaw & Shaolin Gi Kanshin Ryu Kempo
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:28:15 GMT
Organization: Boston University Center for Remote Sensing


	I am looking for anyone who has taken or knows about
Kuntaw.  It comes from the Phillipines.

	Also I am looking for the following:

A) Anyone who has taken Shaolin Gi Kanshin Ryu Kempo

B) Any one who is familliar with Master Fred Neff

Please post or E-mail:  dugner@crsa.bu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS)
Subject: Buddha's Palm
Originator: bkdavis@pepe.csc.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:21:19 GMT


I have studied many different styles and I am focusing on an art call
Buddha's Palm. I was wondering if anyone else has heard of this art form
before. It deals mainly with hand strikes palms especially.



Brian K. Davis
aka
 The Black Buddha
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: knife techniques
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:49:16 GMT

tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:

>gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras) writes:
>>
>>This is right.  When you think of defending against a knife, think more
>>of going against a boxer who does need to deliver *any* power, and where 
>>every punch ttht lands, even lightly, can cause severe injury.  More than
>>this, you can get injured by the withdrawing knife as easily as by the 
>>advancing knife.  

>     True. A general principal of first-aid is that an object that has
>punctured and lodged in the body should be left in until medical treatment
>is available - leaving it in "stops up the hole" and reduces bleeding. So
>if you ever get stabbed and you attacker leaves the knife in, as a general
>rule you don't want to pull it out.

Well, this may be true but it is not what I was referring to.  What I meant
to say is that the knife can cut as it's being pulled back toward the
wielder.  So, if I thrust out with a a knife and it's blocked, I can cut
as I withdraw the knife.  The way to think of this is that the knife is
never just moving, it's always trying to cut.

Hope that's clearer,
gerard
From: gbaker@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Greg baker)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: RE: Black Belt time
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 15:37:49 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

Marc Seebass writes:
True, I've been taking Tae Kwon-Do since May of 1981 and I'm only first 
don. I'm more proud of the fact that I've kept taking for eleven years 
than I am of the fact that I am a first don balck belt.

Well Mark, Taking Taekwondo for eleven years is quite an accomplishment. 
Now, mind you, I'm not denting that experience is important when I say 
this, but let me ask you, Have you ever tested for your second Dan? I 
think it's important to remember that there is a ranking system within 
the balck belt for a reason. I'm not saying that a person should get a 
balck belt before he/she is ready (and patience plays a big part of being 
ready) but at the same time, Having experience without ever testin 
yourself is not the idea either. Testing is an important part of the 
martial arts, without it tha art stagnates. Are you really stasified with 
being a first dan after eleven years? It sounds to me like you don't 
really ever want to progress past where you are 'comfortable'. Now, I 
don't know how long out of that eleven years you have been a first dan, 
and if you haven't been a first dan long enough to consider testing, then 
I retract my statement. I just don't think we should lose sight of what 
the ranking system really means. It's not -just- 'experience' it's a 
competition against yourself, to push yourself, to continue onward. The 
Martial Arts have ranks for a reason.

.greg.

///////////////////// B.A.K.A. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
 ////////////gbaker@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
--------------------------------------------------------
_________________STATION z e b r a______________________
From: thorick@sybase.com (Thorick Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Full contact no protection (was Re: Badass Karate)
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:14:10 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

>In article <1992Nov4.215421.8721@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>, 
>cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO) writes:
>> 
>>      If anyone thinks that Muay Thai is undefeated in world competition, I ask
>> you to rent a movie called "Fighting Black Kings", which you can find at any
>> good Blockbuster Video.  It is a documentary about the 1st annual Martial Arts
>> Invitational in Tokyo...
>> The tournament was truly brutal.  You have to see it to believe it.  As the
>> TKD dude in "Perfect Weapon" said...."Full contact-no protection...."  
>

I saw this a few years ago..  and in my opinion, the Thai BOxers
and the 'Kung-Fu' guys were basically setups to make the
Kyokushinkai guys look real good (of course they were real good
to begin with, but the 'plants' as I'll call them, were pathetic)...

Do you really think that a real (tm) Thai Boxer would be so 
intimidated that he refuses to get back into the ring when
he can still stand up ?  Seeing this video, the answer would be 'yes'

Do you really think that a real (tm) 'Kung-Fu' person would throw
the ridiculous effectual 'punches' that caused the narrator to
remark that 'Kung Fu is no match for REAL fighting Karate' ?
Seeing this video, the answer would be 'yes'...

Coming back to reality and away from the stage, I would say
'maybe not'...


-t.c.



--
"..according to Chinese law, most suicides are considered criminal offenses
against Socialism and the Communist Party.  When someone takes his own life
members of the family are often punished, on the principle that they must have
either condoned or been influenced by the 'incorrect thought'.." -Iron & Silk
From: poore@ds13.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Badass Karate
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:58:20 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds13.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <1992Nov05.140428.29669@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.215421.8721@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO) writes:
><slice hack>
>>   ANYWAY......the Karate stylists were clearly dominant.  The representatives
>>from China did pretty well, considering Kung-Fu has always had a bad rap 
>Really?  I have never heard this.  I have seen various Kung Fu full contact

Well...Fighting Black Kings is a very interesting and entertaining
movie. But, if Jose is basing his opinion of the non-karate styles
represented in that 'documentary', then I think he is missing something.
The perspective in that film is so obviously slanted I find it hard to
believe that anyone wouldn't see it. They show the 'kung-fu
representatives' practicing some kind of nonsense Wing Chun looking
garbage...hell, as much as I suck, I think I could have beaten those
guys! Of course there was no mention of the 100s of other styles of
'kung-fu'. 

As for the Muay Thai person, he kicked the crap out of several people.
If I remember correctly, he dropped out due to injury in the
semi-finals. In the film, I think they said something to the effect that
he was too small and was afraid of getting hurt! Still, an interesting
film. They showed some pretty ugly, crushing, ax-kick knockouts, but the
winners won the fights with repeated low kicks to the thigh. 

As for where kung fu has a bad rap...I think that Kyuokushinkai people
tend to think just about everyone else is a weakling, and I believe this
is where this whole thread originated.

David Poore
poore@ds13.scri.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System)
Subject: ITFNZ
Organization: Massey University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 02:49:23 GMT

International TaeKwonDo Foundation of New Zealand
---------------------------------------------------------

1993 National Camp will take place in Massey University, Palmerston
North, 22-24 January 93
approx cost for all meals and accommodation is NZ$ 140 (adults) and NZ$
75 (up to 12)


combined training, competitions, group training, theory workshops,
demonstrations, entertainment.

Topics covered:

sport psychology, basics, flexibility, patterns, sports nutrition,
sparring, exercise physiology, weapons, injury prevention, breakfalling.

----------------------------------------------------------
1994 INTERNATIONAL CAMP in Massey - will keep you posted...
----------------------------------------------------------


EMA ALTER (EJ. Alter@massey.ac.nz)
CUES
Massey University
Palmerston North
New Zealand
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - K31)
Subject: re: Time for belts/knife techniques
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center	
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:36:13 GMT

Kuo Hau Chang tells a second hand story:
>A coworker of his had told him he was a Tae Kwon Do Instructor,
>to which this
>guy responded "ahh, Korean ballet" 
>The TKD BB did not take this well.

I resemble that remark!

>He asked the fellow to attack him with a knife so as to demonstrate
>his badassedness to 

Your slant is showing here, tssk tssk.

>this person whom I know. This person whom I know lunged turned 
>the knife around blade against the forearm and had it
>against the BB's throat.

Yes.  We all agree [I should hope] that one is seriously outclassed
unarmed against a knife.... I am not very eager to test my skills
against a real blade, but love the opportunity to work against
a well designed, safe, durable, finely crafted wooden knife :-)

The situation you refer to is a blessing to me, since it gives
me a chance (not to mention) incentive :-) to learn.


My observation BTW is that the MA that most resembles ballet
is Kung Fu... but I mean this as a complement.  One of my
fun memories was spent in a hotel room in CA with some R.MA
readers and MA practioners watching a fella who practices
Hung Gar (Larry Pendergrass) the best way of describing his
technique is beautiful.... and then he would show the application
of the technique (Hey Mikel, I never did ask, how did that feel :-)