HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: Fire and Prometheus
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:37:04 GMT

It's interesting to note both that "Prometheus" means "foresight" in English
and that according to Robert Graves the original bis for the story is a
Sanskrit hero called "Pramanthan" that discovers the fire-drill, a bow and
twig for starting fires.  Apparently the symbol of the spark starting the
fire was a swastika.

"Epimetheus" means "hindsight".


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
From: Pat.Dellapiana@psycho.fidonet.org (Pat Dellapiana)
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Purgatory
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 17:42:12 EDT
Organization: Psycho: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway of St. Pete Florida

I find it difficult to consider seriously any religious thought, whether mythological or biblical, that is contained in the same sentence with the name "Dan Quayle".


--  
Internet: Pat.Dellapiana@psycho.fidonet.org
UUCP: ...!myrddin!tct!psycho!Pat.Dellapiana
Note:psycho is a free gateway between Usenet & Fidonet. For info write to
     root@psycho.fidonet.org.
From: aph016@cch.coventry.ac.uk (ozzy)
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Re: Virgins vs Women (titbits)
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:13:41 GMT
Organization: none

In article <92279.172540U18588@uicvm.uic.edu> U18588@uicvm.uic.edu (--- BORYS ---) writes:
>
>      An interesting tidbit...
>
>       To the primitive Man,  a female was considered a virgin until
>she actually gave birth.  It did not matter how often or how early on she
>had sexual intercourse.   This way of thinking that a woman becames
>a "woman" is the effect of Judeo-Christian values and morals trying to
>curb sexual 'promiscuity'


Also, the celts believed that sexual promiscuity was a good thing. During
Beltane, many young adults indulged in such activities, virginity was not
prized at all, and it was often better to marry a women who had already
given birth to children. The encouraged sexual activity in young adults
was due to the fact that this was associated with fertility, and children
conceived at this time were considered very lucky.
 Some South American Indians also believe it lucky to make love in fields, 
 as a sort of offering to the Fertility God/Goddess.
-- 
aph016@uk.ac.cov.cch
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: rissab@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Larissa Bemis)
Subject: Re: Virgins vs Women
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:49:07 GMT

In article <2AD1AEF1.4E66@deneva.sdd.trw.com> shrdlu@willow.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True) writes:
>In article <92279.172540U18588@uicvm.uic.edu> ---  BORYS  --- <U18588@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>      An interesting tidbit...
>>
>>       To the primitive Man,  a female was considered a virgin until
>>she actually gave birth.  It did not matter how often or how early on she
>>had sexual intercourse.   This way of thinking that a woman becames
>>a "woman" is the effect of Judeo-Christian values and morals trying to
>>curb sexual 'promiscuity'
>
>-- 

	Guess I'm probably responding to the wrong article with this one,
but, here goes anyway.  Saw a special the other night on the discovery channel
I know, I know...don't trust what ya see on T.V.  But apparently they have
translated alot of those "new" Dead sea scrolls.  The Dr. who's doing the
translating was the one on the show.  She gave three definitions of virgin
according to the venacular of the times:
1)  Any true virgin (our sense of the word)
2)  Any nun of a particular sect of priests (what the special was about)
3)  Any woman who was betrothed.
Guess where Mary fits in???
					Masque
					too new to the system for
					a .sig
From: gdh@calmasd.Prime.COM (Gerald Hall)
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Re: Virgins
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:50:34 GMT
Organization: Computervision, San Diego, CA

In article <Bvrr5x.99u@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> rissab@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Larissa Bemis) writes:
>In article <2AD1AEF1.4E66@deneva.sdd.trw.com> shrdlu@willow.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True) writes:
>>In article <92279.172540U18588@uicvm.uic.edu> ---  BORYS  --- <U18588@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>>       To the primitive Man,  a female was considered a virgin until
>according to the venacular of the times:
>1)  Any true virgin (our sense of the word)
>2)  Any nun of a particular sect of priests (what the special was about)
>3)  Any woman who was betrothed.

A few tidbits:  

	In the BCE _all_ Jewish High Priests had to be "born of virgins".

	A little more recently, women, even mothers, entering convents
	were (are?) declared virgins.

	The word 'virgin' has the same root as 'virile' (manly, strong)
	with 'gin' (gyn) meaning female.

-- 
   /
  /	Jerry,	CalmaSD UNIX SysAdmin,	+1 619 587 3065
 /
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: rissab@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Masque)
Subject: Re: Merlin and/or Taliesin
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 21:18:47 GMT

In article <Bw0G4I.Bow@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
>Sometimes Merlin and Taliesin are treated as separate characters, 
>sometimes as the same one, depending on the source.
>
>Why?  
>
>- Peggy -

One theory is that "Merlin" is an office not a name and that Taliesin
is the man (druid) who held that office while Uther and Arthur were king.

At least thats the logic used in _Mists of Avalon_.  I know, I know...\
Not the most _reliable_ source, but the only place I've really seen it 
mentioned.
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: harold@fwi.uva.nl (Harold A.J.M. Schellinx)
Subject: Purgatory
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:19:47 GMT


                       PURGATORY EXISTS !!!!!
                     ==========================

       A mathematical proof of the existence of Purgatory is
       claimed by a team of Dutch mathematicians from the Centre
       for Mathematics and Computer Science and the University of
       Amsterdam. Their results appear in a monograph entitled

                  "Das Fegefeuer-Theorem"
                       -------------
                       DE PURGATORIO

                  Eschatologische Axiomatik
                            zum
                      transorbitalen
                     Suendenmanagement

       published by Libelle-Verlag, Bottighofen am Bodensee,
       ISBN 3-909081-55-X.
       The authors are J.A.P. Heesterbeek, J.M.A.M. van Neerven
       and H.A.J.M. Schellinx.
       The monograph is written in academic German, with an
       extensive mathematical Appendix in English.

       We cite the English Condensation:

            'This book gives the Deomathematical description
             of Sinning. You, reading this summary in a book-
             shop, should stare into your deepest Ego and
             contemplate whether your Sin-load is bigger than
             10 (jokes about the Royal Family (UK readers) or
             Dan Quayle (US readers) already drive it above
             25) while your Extensional Soulbalance is below
             0. Do not contemplate too long though, the book-
             seller has noticed you and wonders if you really
             will buy. Your Soulsearch reveals that You, Reader,
             are a Sinner. It is then good to know that we
             rigorously prove that Purgatory exists. Buying this
             book will favourably influence your personal
             grill-time.'

       The 'Sommaire Prospective (1758)':

             'Votre Altesse trouvera dans ce Trait'e des matieres
              de Th'elogie, de Philosophie & de Math'ematique,
              mani'ees avec beaucoup d'habilit'e & de d'elicatesse:
              elles sont toutes de votre sphere ces matieres.'


     (Price: DM 19,==, approx. US$ 13,==)
=============================================================================
ALL INFORMATION: hees@cwi.nl
-------------------------------



Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: kbest@doc.novell.com (Karl Best)
Subject: Re: Please Help
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:46:18 GMT

In article <22760001@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com> kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com  
(Kingsley Morse) writes:
>               Please answer these 9 questions and return.
> 
> 1.) Do you think equal rights for men and women is generally a good idea?

[asinine survey deleted]

Well, golly, those survey questions have a lot to do with mythology, don't  
they?

How about:

1. Do you think that Zeus really rules the earth?

2. Do you think the Holy Grail is a real object?

3. Do you believe in faeries?

--
Karl Best                              Far away, across the field
Novell Tech Pubs           ...  __o    the tolling of the iron bell
Provo, Utah  801-429-3428 ..   -\<,    draws the faithful to their knees
kbest@doc.novell.com      ...(_)/(_).  to hear the softly spoken magic spell
karl_best@novell.com                      -Roger Waters, Pink Floyd
From: danl@next06wor.wam.umd.edu (Neurotic Bob)
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: why "Lucifer"
Date: 16 Oct 92 23:06:43 GMT
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park

In my CLAS 470 class today, the professor made a comparison between  
Prometheus, who returned fire to man, and Lucifer, whose name means "light  
bearer."  The comparison had originally been made because the two are both  
used as "trickster" figures.  The professor, however, remarked that he  
wasn't sure why a name for the devil might be "Lucifer," other than that  
he was also referred to as the morning star.
So my question is, does anyone out there know?  Both my professor and  
myself would appreciate any help.
Thanks in advance for any contributions you may make.

		--Dan'L
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: djboccip@athena.mit.edu (Dennis J Boccippio)
Subject: Mahabharata, translations of... 
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:10:52 GMT

Is anyone aware of any relatively scholarly translations of
   the Mahabharata, other than the J.A. VanBuitenen set?
   (The good Prof. Van Buitenen seems to have died shortly
   after finishing Book 5 and the Bhagavadgita, which is
   part of Book 6; this leaves 12 more to go...)  I'm 
   particularly interested in translations which haven't
   been extensively reworked by various religious sects...

Thanks in advance for any help...


			- Dennis
From: lizi@ocf.berkeley.edu (Cosma R. Shalizi)
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Re: Sisyphus
Date: 7 Oct 1992 23:28:12 GMT
Organization: Vampire Research Group at Berkeley :)
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandstorm.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct7.180747.1438@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> jsikking@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>		I can't remmeber who, but  someone asked for the name 
>of the ancient Greek who was attached to the Flaming Wheel.
   This is Ixion. He made himself obnoxious at a feast with the gods and
tried to rape Hera. He was fobbed off with an imitation made of clouds and
the offspring, say some, were the centaurs.
>The name is Sisyphus.
   This is wrong. Sisyphos was/is the one rolling the rock uphill.
>I do not remmeber the infraction, but that is the
>name. My source, be ready to winch, Classical Mythology. pg.325.  I forget 
                              ^^^^^
I'm pulleying :) for taking this sort of question to your friendly neighborhood
library

>-John

	Cosma Rohilla Shalizi
	In Real Life: lizi@ocf.berkeley.edu
	larval physicist
	VP, Campus Crusade for Cthulhu (Berkeley)
THE STARS ARE RIGHT: CTHULHU IN '92! WHY SETTLE FOR THE LESSER EVIL?
-- 
"Apart from hydrogen, the most common thing in the universe is stupidity."
-Harlan Ellison, _An Edge in My Voice_
From: t00022@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Re: Does anybody know what Tiothvitnir means
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:00:18 GMT
Reply-To: t00022@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

ARRRGH!  Let me try this again....

_The Poetic Edda:  Translated from the Icelandic with an Introduction and
Notes_ by Henry Adams Bellows.  New York:  (press?), 1923.

                                           There!
                                           Fledermaus
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: mimir@stein.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Pharamond?
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:40:14 GMT

In article <rdippold.718400669@qualcom> rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>I'm on the trail of a ancient diety named Pharamond...  General middle
>eastern region, time frame somewhere near ancient Babylon.  In lieu of
>actually finding a "Pharamond" in this or Greek mythology, it's
>possible that it's a perversion of the god Mont/Mond/Month, who was
>often used by Pharoahs as part of their name, so it could be a
>perversion of Pharoah-Mont.  Or, it's a possible mutation on one of
>the many names of Bel-Marduk.
>
>Any clues?

 You've been reading too many Sandman comics... How's that?

Wassail,
Al
From: gustavo@zeus.concordia.ca (Gustavo Vegas)
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Does anybody know what Tiothvitnir means?
Summary: Teutonic tradition with respect to Asgardhr
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:39:34 GMT
Organization: ECE - Concordia University


I have been reading some writings with respect to Teutonic traditions
and mythology, and have come across a text talking about Asgardhr, in 
which the river Thund is mentioned. It also talks about "the flood of
Thiothvitnir". I am wondering if this is another name for the Thund,
or if this is a characteristic of the mentioned river. I believe the
test belongs to a book or writing called "the Grimnismal".
-- 
  ====  ===  ====   =======================+===========================
  =    =   = =      Gustavo Vegas            gustavo@davinci.concordia.ca
  ===  =     ===    Systems Analyst          Concordia University
  =    =     =      Dept. of E&CE            Montreal, Canada
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: djweisbe@unix.amherst.edu (David Weisberger (Davebo))
Subject: Re: Fire and Prometheus
Organization: large
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:05:25 GMT

Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com) wrote:
: In article <BvovIL.4zu@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
: >In article <92279.164844U52539@uicvm.uic.edu> ---  BORYS  --- <U52539@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
: >
: >>    Can someone tell me the myth of Prometheus and how / why he stole fire?
: >
: >Yes, someone can.
: >
: >His name is "Bulfinch."
: >
: The original sources of the Prometheus story are Aeschylus and Hesiod, I believe.
: Bulfinch seems to have sanitized the myths beyond my taste.
: 
:  
: Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com)  

I agree with that appraisal of Bulfinch.  I find Edith Hamilton's 
_Mythology_ handy as a desk reference because she generally summarizes
Grek (and Roman) versions of many myths rather than retelling them.
Just a tip.


-Davebo

djweisberger@amherst.edu / djweisbe@unix.amherst.edu




Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: erynn@milton.u.washington.edu (Erynn)
Subject: Re: Merlin and/or Taliesin
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 04:00:24 GMT

mmussell@fmgu25.intel.com (Morgan Mussell ~) writes:

>>Sometimes Merlin and Taliesin are treated as separate characters, 
>>sometimes as the same one, depending on the source.

>>Why?  

>I don't ever recall seeing the two treated as one.  Which sources do you have
>in mind?

Probably the infamous "experts" on the Celts - John and Caitlin Matthews.
From: pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland)
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Re: Merlin and/or Taliesin
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:07:17 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <Bw6B9s.27K@inews.Intel.COM> mmussell@fmgu25.intel.com (Morgan
Mussell) writes:

+Either way, I've never come across any hint of an identity between Merlin
+and Taliesin.

+Morgan Mussell            mmussell@mcd.intel.com

I've heard that Taliesin was Merlin's tutor when he was a child. Anyone
else got anything on this.

Graeme Sutherland.
pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Merlin and/or Taliesin
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:29:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Sometimes Merlin and Taliesin are treated as separate characters, 
sometimes as the same one, depending on the source.

Why?  

- Peggy -
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Re: Pronouncing Cuchulain??
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:29:24 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

kyle@cgsvax.claremont.edu writes:
>	I've been reading the "Tain Bo Culgne" and I was wondering if 
>anyone knew how to pronounce the name of the hero Cuchulain.  The 
>version I'm reading uses german words as examples and since I don't 
>speak german......

COO-hoo-len.  The len is actually somewhat close to "lain".  The
pronunciation really is strange...  "Culgne" for instance is
like "KWEEL-na". 
-- 
Never hit a man with glasses.  Use your fist.
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: sej5g@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Susie Juroff)
Subject: Re: Pronouncing Cuchulain??
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 03:29:11 GMT

I've heard Koo-kul'lin, u-like-hunt, from Pogues "the sickbed
of Cuchullain" and on an Irish Gaellic language tape, but in
Tain when I read it, I thought he said the pronounciation was
koo-hoo'lin. Older pronounciation? Dunno.
--
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Re: Does anybody know what Tiothvitnir means?
From: t00022@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:28:21 -0600
Reply-To: t00022@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <5279@daily-planet.concordia.ca>, gustavo@zeus.concordia.ca (Gustavo Vegas) writes:
>
>I have been reading some writings with respect to Teutonic traditions
>and mythology, and have come across a text talking about Asgardhr, in 
>which the river Thund is mentioned. It also talks about "the flood of
>Thiothvitnir". I am wondering if this is another name for the Thund,
>or if this is a characteristic of the mentioned river. I believe the
>test belongs to a book or writing called "the Grimnismal".
>-- 
>  ====  ===  ====   =======================+===========================
>  =    =   = =      Gustavo Vegas            gustavo@davinci.concordia.ca
>  ===  =     ===    Systems Analyst          Concordia University
>  =    =     =      Dept. of E&CE            Montreal, Canada

	Here is the verse from _Grimnismol_ ("The Ballad of Grimnir") in which
Thjothvitnir is mentioned:

21.  Loud roars Thund,     and Thjothvitnir's fish
       Joyously fares in the flood;
     Hard does it seem     to the host of the slain
       To wade the torrent wild.


And this is the accompanying footnote:
	21.  _Thund_ ("The Swollen" or "The Roaring"): the river
  surrounding Valhall.  _Thjothvitnir's fish_:  presumably the sun, 
  which was caught by the wolf Skoll (cf. _Voluspo_, 40)  Thjoth-
  vitnirt meaning "the mighty wolf."....
  ....The last two lines refer to the attack on Valhall by the 
  people of Hel; cf. _Voluspo_, 51.


So Thjothvitnir is another name for Skoll, the wolf who destroys the sun at the
end of the world.
	As to what "the flood" is, well, I can only make an assumption here.  I
don't think it means a flooded Thund.  I think that, in this case, since the
"fish" is presumed to be the sun, the flood refers to the sky.  Which does make
some sense.  Just think of howling winds and storm-tossed clouds, and a dim
sun moving through the boiling sky....

                                             Fledermaus


                                                  

     

Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo)
Subject: Re: Fire and Prometheus
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 03:02:50 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <BvovIL.4zu@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <92279.164844U52539@uicvm.uic.edu> ---  BORYS  --- <U52539@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>
>>    Can someone tell me the myth of Prometheus and how / why he stole fire?
>
>Yes, someone can.
>
>His name is "Bulfinch."
>
The original sources of the Prometheus story are Aeschylus and Hesiod, I believe.
Bulfinch seems to have sanitized the myths beyond my taste.


-- 
Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com)  
From the beautiful and historic Mid-Hudson Valley area of NY state
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: cpearson@ducvax.auburn.edu (MISTYEYES)
Subject: Re: Merlin and/or Taliesin
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Auburn University--Auburn, AL
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 05:21:00 GMT

In article <1bkq2lINNg4e@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk>, pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland) writes...
>In article <Bw6B9s.27K@inews.Intel.COM> mmussell@fmgu25.intel.com (Morgan
>Mussell) writes:
> 
>+Either way, I've never come across any hint of an identity between Merlin
>+and Taliesin.
> 
>+Morgan Mussell            mmussell@mcd.intel.com
> 
>I've heard that Taliesin was Merlin's tutor when he was a child. Anyone
>else got anything on this.
> 
>Graeme Sutherland.
>pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk
Taleisin was the "Merlin of Britain" during both Uther and Arthurs
reigns, the legend of Myrddin was the inspiration for the use of
Merlin as "Wise One " 

Colleen

Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: bon6@quads.uchicago.edu (rahul  bonner)
Subject: Re: Mahabharata, translations of... 
Reply-To: bon6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 03:39:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.221052.8019@athena.mit.edu> djboccip@athena.mit.edu (Dennis J Boccippio) writes:

>Is anyone aware of any relatively scholarly translations of
>   the Mahabharata, other than the J.A. VanBuitenen set?
>   (The good Prof. Van Buitenen seems to have died shortly
>   after finishing Book 5 and the Bhagavadgita, which is
>   part of Book 6; this leaves 12 more to go...) 

The translation begun by J.A.B. van Buitenen is being continued by others.
Bhishma Parvan (Book 6) should be coming out soon, translated by David
Gitomer, currently professor at Loyola University, Chicago.  Wendy Doniger
is doing Stri Parvan.  I don't know who they have to do the rest.

The van Buitenen translation is quirky, but engaging; I'm quite fond of
it.  I just hope the project doesn't lose direction now that there are 
multiple translators.

>Thanks in advance for any help...
>
>			- Dennis

No prob.

                                -- Rahul