HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se (James Hague)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: Games and the C64
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:12:28 GMT
Reply-To: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Richardson, TX
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

All this "old C64 games were awesome" talk is interesting,
especially since a very high percentage of modern games
are rather dry.  Technologically impressive, yes, but often
rather lifeless IMO.

Are there any old C64 game designers out there (pro, not
casual)?  I'm curious how things have changed in the
industry over the years--i.e. do the game designers them-
selves echo the above sentiments as well?

--
James Hague   
exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
From: nevs@cs.tu-berlin.de (Sven Goldt)
Subject: Re: 10th anniversay of the C=64?
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:14:21 GMT

Hey,seems to be interesting for the readers,hehe.
Ok,the CMD is a Harddisk for the C64 which you plug to your
userport (not serial,but parallel !).
The Grafic Card is a development by a german freak who first wanted
to produce a Grafic Card with true colors and 2+ MB Ram etc.but
it would cost too much.So he decided to make a compromise and
the new card has less features.I didn't copy his article from
the german z-net , but maybe someone else did.I will try to
get it and translate if for you.
The Flash8 is a 8 MHZ card with up to 4 MB RAM on board.It is
mainly a 65816 16-bit processor which does the work for the
6510 (gulp,hope it wasn't 6502).The card does the GCR encode/decode
for the 1541 ,too, and speeds transfers to and from it 6000 % !

--
*******************************************************************************
*  feel free to mail to nevs@cs.tu-berlin.de    /"/ /"| / /""                 *
*  nevs = Sven Goldt                           / / /" |/  "/                  * 
*                                             ' ' '"  " """                   * 
*  # THE MOST IMPORTANT FINANCIAL QUESTION IS:  Where is the money ? #        *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
From: paulm@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (paul.j.maioriello)
Subject: lynx128
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:48:50 GMT
Keywords: milton


Hi CBMers,

I recently downloaded the lynx128 program at Milton.
Every time I run it, it just jumps to the monitor,.
It looks like it s meant to be run in 128 mode from BASIC.
Is this the case?

I even downloaded it twice to make sure that the file
hadn't got corrupted somehow.

Does anyone know how to make the thing work?

Please email a response or follow up as others
may be running into a similar problem.


Paul M.

pjm@mt747.att.com
From: ac803@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael W. Kelley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: gds gif viewer mods
Date: 21 Nov 1992 00:58:33 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ac803@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael W. Kelley)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, bris@chem.ualberta.ca (Tom Brisbane) says:

>I have read recently somewhere else that there are some
>mods available that patch the GDS program, that is used
>for viewing gifs on the C128.  Am I correct in this? I
>have the original early version from Qlink and have not
>seen any comments on the net regarding patches to this
>program.
>   Any comments would be appreciated...
>
The file you want is called GDSLONG.SFX.  I don't have FTP
access so I don't know if it is available from any of the
sites.  You need the 64K video upgrade or a 128D for GDS
to wrok, and I have not seen much improvement with the
GDS long module.
-- 
Basic Bits Commodore Group, No. Ridgeville, Ohio: Quantumlink - RidgeRunr
Light Of Day C= Sysop (216) 327-1603, 9600  (216) 327-1423, 2400
County Link C= Sysop (216) 236-6126 4 nodes, My Basement BBS (216) 234-6572
Nerds Nook Fidonet 1:157/2   (216) 356-1431
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: phillips@uwa.oz.au (Christopher Phillips)
Subject: Re: Games and the C64...
Organization: Elec Eng, Univ of Western Australia
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:44:03 GMT

>danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.) writes:
>>First speech I ever heard, tho, was on Impossible Mission. Still ranks with
>>the best talking games out... "Welcome. Stay Awhile... STAY FOREVER!!!!"

Same here.  A definate classic, that one.  The first time a friend of mine
loaded it, his mum called out asking him to stop shouting!

But my favourite 'quote' from the c64 these days _has_ to be from the
intro to Turrican:

  Hello and welcome to Turrican.
  Be my guest.
  Another day, another try.
  But remember!  SHOOT OR DIE! 
  ha ha ha ha ha ha har...

(and yes, I just loaded it to check 'but vs just' and count the ha's!
Not to mention the joys of hearing it again, of course ;)

The sample's about 95k nybbles long ($8xx..$c200) and lasts a tad over 10
seconds at ~8Khz (easily high enough for the gravelly voice used)

Now the next question, is how well can I compress a silly quote for the shmup
I'll finish writing some day...


--
Christopher Jam	__________________________________________________
phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.edu.au			c64 forever!!!!
300,000 c64's were sold in the fiscal year ending June 1991 :)
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mcmillan_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: 1541 connected to an IBM
Date: 21 Nov 92 02:20:13 NZST
Organization: Welligton City Council, Public Access.
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <92324.084842ANDERSON@UCF1VM.BITNET>, Eric C. Anderson <ANDERSON@UCF1VM.BITNET> writes:
> Thanks for the info. Now, just one more question: where is the INCOMING
> directory? I ftp'd to the site and searched the directories and could not
> find it.
> 
My apologies! I should have included the path...
It is:
cd pub
cd rknop
cd INCOMING

then dir ... get  ...

Cheers - Kirk
From: bf911@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David J Mulligan Jr)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: C Compiler?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 23:20:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bf911@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David J Mulligan Jr)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, andy@ice.stx.com (Andy Moore) says:

>I just bought Super-C v2.0 for $49.95 at a local computer store this
>month.  Works great, I'm quite happy with it.  This is in spite of the
>fact that a review in Transactor years ago made me think the Spinnaker
>Power-C compiler would be better (for me, at least).  But my fears were
>unfounded; Data Becker's Super-C is fine, and I like the CP/M-like shell
>that comes with it.
>
>So it is still for sale in some places.  I think I've seen it in the
>mail order catalogs from Tenex (?), sold by Abacus (as Georg says).
>-- 
>Andy Moore (andy@ice.stx.com)

I bought Abacus's (Data Becker) Super-C a few months back from the RUN 
Product Catalog.  It was and still is (sorry, Andy) $24.97.  I must admit 
that I haven't even tried it out yet, but it did look like a nice manual.

The only thing it lacks, according to the Preface at the front of the 
manual, is bit fields.  But it does say that the C128 version has a
RAM disk.

So, if you have the latest (last *sniff*) copy of RUN, or even the few 
issues before that, check it out.
-- 
 _             _
| \           | \        / cscon107@uoft02.utoledo.edu
|_/ igitized  |_/ ave    \ bf911@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: ac803@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael W. Kelley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: COMPUTE
Date: 23 Nov 1992 06:46:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ac803@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael W. Kelley)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, withers_n@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz () says:

>  I have just seen a copy of COMPUTE (Sept. 1992) which contains a PC section
>and GAZETTE.
>Now, in the magazine is a Subscription card which asks you to check the edition
>that you want when ordering.
>The choices are.....# IBM/BM compatible
>                    # Amiga
>                    # Commodore 64/128
>                    # Multi Edition
>
>Does this mean that Gazette is published as a separate magazine again ?
>Or would the Multi Edition contain the same Commodore material anyway ?
>
>Thanks for any information
>
>Nick Withers.
>
>
If I'm not mistaken, the multi editon has ALL coverage in it, while the 
others are PC and  one machine specific.
-- 
Basic Bits Commodore Group, No. Ridgeville, Ohio: Quantumlink - RidgeRunr
Light Of Day C= Sysop (216) 327-1603, 9600  (216) 327-1423, 2400
County Link C= Sysop (216) 236-6126 4 nodes, My Basement BBS (216) 234-6572
Nerds Nook Fidonet 1:157/2   (216) 356-1431
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
From: andy@ice.stx.com (Andy Moore)
Subject: Super-C zero page use
Keywords: C-64, C language, masochism, IRQ
Reply-To: andy@ian.stx.com
Organization: Hughes STX, Lanham, MD
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:44:53 GMT

Does anyone here happen to know anything about how Abacus' Super-C
(version 2) on the C-64 uses zero page memory?  The manual doesn't
really explain this (unless I missed something).  The only hint is
that it says that when you use the call() function, you can use
$20 through $30, but I suspect that that is only during the call().
I need a about five bytes of zero page for an IRQ interrupt handler.
Thanks in advance for any clues...

-- 
Andy Moore (andy@ice.stx.com)
______________________________________________________________________________
 All Targets Met / All Systems Working / All Customers Satisfied /
   All Staff Eager and Enthusiastic / All Pigs Fed and Ready To Fly
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
From: uet019@zx1.Darkcrystal.Cyberspace (Oliver B. Warzecha)
Subject: Re: Strange bug/problem...
Reply-To: uet019@zx1.hrz.uni-dortmund.de
Organization: University of Dortmund, Germany
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 11:25:41 GMT

mcmillan_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz wrote:
: Help! Does anyone know why the following program does NOT work properly on a
: C-128, but is fine on a C-64 or Plus/4? (All using the same 1571 disk drive.)
: 
: 10 open5,9,5,"source,s,r"
: 20 open6,9,6,"newfile,s,w"
: 30 sys4864
: 40 close5:close6:end
: 
: . 1300  a2 05    ldx #$05
: . 1302  20 c6 ff jsr $ffc6  CHKIN ;aha
: . 1305  20 e4 ff jsr $ffe4  GETIN 
: . 1308  a6 90    ldx $90   STATUS
: . 130a  86 02    stx $02
: . 130c  48       pha 
: . 130d  a2 06    ldx #$06
: . 130f  20 c9 ff jsr $ffc9  CKOUT ;? what if loop runs 2nd time
: . 1312  68       pla 
: . 1313  20 d2 ff jsr $ffd2  BSOUT
: . 1316  a6 02    ldx $02
: . 1318  f0 e6    beq $1300
: . 131a  20 cc ff jsr $ffcc  CLRCH ;kind of late after all this CHKIN
: . 131d  60       rts              ;and CHKOUT
: 
: Any solution much appreciated.
: 
: Cheers - Kirk
: 
Hmmm... perhaps the 128 handles I/O-channels better than the 64 or +4. As
you can read in my comments above there seems to be a little too many CHKIN
and CHKOUT before the I/O-channels are cleared. My suggestion: Use the
following:

	ldx #$05
	jsr CHKIN
	ldx #$06
	jsr CHKOUT
loop	jsr GETIN
	ldx $90
	jsr CHROUT 
	txa
	beq loop
	jsr CLRCHN
	rts

If this doesn't work either ,I have no idea what to do...

OBW
uet019@zx1.hrz.uni-dortmund.de

"No flag or uniform ever stopped the bullet of a gun" 
Out in the fields - Moore/Lynott
"Endings are just beginnings"
Amarok - Mike Oldfield
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
From: nevs@cs.tu-berlin.de (Sven Goldt)
Subject: Re: C Compiler?
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:31:54 GMT

There are some C-Compilers for the C64.
I had a PD compiler,but it was so awful that i deleted it.
There are better ones from the companies Markt&Technik and
Data Becker.They aren't sold any longer,so try to get a used
C-Compiler.

--
*******************************************************************************
*  feel free to mail to nevs@cs.tu-berlin.de    /"/ /"| / /""                 *
*  nevs = Sven Goldt                           / / /" |/  "/                  * 
*                                             ' ' '"  " """                   * 
*  # THE MOST IMPORTANT FINANCIAL QUESTION IS:  Where is the money ? #        *
*******************************************************************************
From: andy@ice.stx.com (Andy Moore)
Subject: Re: C Compiler?
Reply-To: andy@ian.stx.com
Organization: Hughes STX, Lanham, MD
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:32:23 GMT

Georg Schwarz writes:
}Sven Goldt writes:
}>There are some C-Compilers for the C64.
}>I had a PD compiler,but it was so awful that i deleted it.
}>There are better ones from the companies Markt&Technik and
}>Data Becker.They aren't sold any longer,so try to get a used
}>C-Compiler.
}
}I think the US version of the DATA BECKER C compiler is published by a
}company called Abacus.

I just bought Super-C v2.0 for $49.95 at a local computer store this
month.  Works great, I'm quite happy with it.  This is in spite of the
fact that a review in Transactor years ago made me think the Spinnaker
Power-C compiler would be better (for me, at least).  But my fears were
unfounded; Data Becker's Super-C is fine, and I like the CP/M-like shell
that comes with it.

So it is still for sale in some places.  I think I've seen it in the
mail order catalogs from Tenex (?), sold by Abacus (as Georg says).
-- 
Andy Moore (andy@ice.stx.com)
______________________________________________________________________________
 All Targets Met / All Systems Working / All Customers Satisfied /
   All Staff Eager and Enthusiastic / All Pigs Fed and Ready To Fly
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
From: csbruce@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Craig Bruce)
Subject: Re: Strange bug/problem...
Originator: csbruce@neumann.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo, Canada (eh!)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 20:12:58 GMT

Yo!

mcmillan_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Kirk) writes:

>Help! Does anyone know why the following program does NOT work properly on a
>C-128, but is fine on a C-64 or Plus/4? (All using the same 1571 disk drive.)
>
>I have condensed it to a minimum as a demonstration... it should just copy
>the file "source" to "newfile".
>[...]

I have encountered this problem too.  Your code is a bit messy.  The way that
CHKIN and CHKOUT work is that you call them ONCE to set up the input and
output channels, then copy your data, and then tear down the connection with
CLRCHN.  However, you will run into problems if you have a CHKIN and a CHKOUT
to devices on the serial bus at the same time.  What should theoretically
happen is that when you do the GETIN, the device that has been commanded
to listen (CHKIN and CHKOUT are equivalent to TALK and LISTN for serial
devices) should catch the byte as the talker puts the byte on the serial
bus - without you doing a BSOUT.  However, it has been my experience that
this situation causes the listening device to stop paying attention.  This
may be a side-effect of using the fast serial protocol.

Anyway, to make a short story longer, you have to change your code to the
following:

loop:	ldx #5
	jsr CHKIN
	jsr GETIN
	pha
	ldx $90
	stx tempst
	jsr CLRCHN
	ldx #6
	jsr CHKOUT
	pla
	jsr BSOUT
	jsr CLRCHN
	lda tempst
	and #$40
	beq loop
	rts

This does a clear channel for every CHKIN and CHKOUT.  This will be fairly
slow since instead of two serial bytes you end up sending six (LISTN, SECOND,
TALK, TKSA) for each byte transferred.  You could modify the above code to
transfer multiple bytes (say, up to 250) while a channel is established for
reading or for writing.  This is what ACE-128/64, ZED-128, and Little Red
Reader-128 do.

What kind of a program is this section of code going into?

Keep on Hackin'!

-Craig Bruce
csbruce@neumann.uwaterloo.ca
"Smarter than a speeding bullet!"
From: mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: C Compiler?
Summary: C compiler wanted for C=64.
Keywords: C compiler
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:36:56 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

Is there a C compiler available for the C=64?
I'd love to get ahold of one.
Thanks.

-m
From: m_rheau@pavo.concordia.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: 10th anniversay of the C=64?
Date: 18 Nov 92 09:42:00 GMT
Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov11.145518.28851@cs.tu-berlin.de>, nevs@cs.tu-berlin.de 
>This is comp.sys.cbm,a newsgroup about the C64 + C128.
>Fuck Amiga and Fuck Apple.
[ stuff about adding hardware to challenge today's pc's deleted ] 
>Sven Goldt

ummmm... for someone as loyal to the 64 as yourself, I hope
         you realize the Amiga is put out by Commodore... 

  Plus, I happen to like the Amiga. And I'm STILL a massive c64 junkie.

  But as far as ultimate die-hards go, I'll give you that title.

  By the way, not to overstay my welcome, but a 64 equipped with the
  hardware you're talking about ISN'T a 64 anymore!!

  Andrew "Jim-Butterfield" Millen

  m_rheau@pavo.concordia.ca

  =8]
     \hi. I'm Sig.
From: agb001@acad.drake.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Hardware Hacks???????
Date: 21 Nov 92 19:33:37 GMT
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA

Just a quick question...
 
I was wondering if there are any people that know of any nice Hardware hacks.
For instance, I once saw an SX-64 with a built in modem and "Burst" mode.
Unfortunately, those things had taxed the power supply too much and it
didn't like staying up for tooo long (otherwise I would have tried to have
bought it). But I was just curious what is out there. I have some things I
have gotten from a local BBS here which describes how to put 8K in the 1541
and another on how to expand a Lt.Kernal hard drive to 85 Megs. But what
others are out there...

Thanks...

Tony Bossaller
AGB001@acad.drake.edu

I've also got a dilemna now... I own one VIC-20, two C-64's, one C-128,
two ADAMs, one AMIGA, but I only own one monitor... :)
From: mphall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: >>games and the C64
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:44:01 GMT

In article <Bxv276.19B@cs.dal.ca> dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca (Michael 'Moose' Dinn) writes:
>
>Who remembers Vic 20 games?
>
>Such as....
>
>	Radar Rat Race?
	!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	My disgusting Vic 20 pal Phil said the rat was farting when it 
released the "magical dust."  Then he'd bray like a donkey until he
started coughing shit up and had to stop.

-Mike


-- 
	    Michael Hall    mphall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
		"Rid of formalized wisdom and learning
 		People would be a hundredfold happier,"

From: harding@hpavla.lf.hp.com (Ken Harding)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:40:10 GMT
Subject: Re: GEOS and HP Deskjet 500?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm

In comp.sys.cbm, mphall@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Michael Hall) writes:


> ... I'd like to know if there is a printer driver for the Hewlett
> Packard DeskJet or DeskJet 500 in Geos 2.0. 

> 	Mike

> -- 

No there is not a printer driver for the HPDeskJet in GEOS 2.0, meaning not
included with the program.  However, there are GEOS drivers available for the
DeskJet.  Check some of the BBS' or ftp sites on the NET (i.e. milton).  I
personally know of a driver that exists on Q-Link because I downloaded it for
my DeskJet.  I don't use it regularly though, because it supports 100 dpi mode
only and not the 300 dpi mode.  Bummer!  But if you're looking to just be able
to use the DeskJet with GEOS for general printouts it's okay.

Hope you read this post in time to be able to use it.

Later
[8)
From: IACHETTA@BCRVMPC2.VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 16:21:15 EST
Subject: Transactor Magazines
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm

Sorry guys, but the Transactor Magazines have been sold.  I've replied to
so many requests in the last few days that I figured I better post.
Basic supply and demand tells me $40 dollars was the wrong price for
all those classic mags.  I probably could have charged more judgeing from
all the responses.  Oh well.  I'm glad to see there is still such a strong
interest in C64/128 machines.

Rich Iachetta
IACHETTA@BCRVMPC2.VNET.IBM.COM
IBM -- Boca Raton, FL  407-982-7705
From: CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu (ChrisSlothman Stoy)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: Connecting with a modem
Date: 16 Nov 92 00:41:54 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

I had an old 300 bps modem from Commodore.  Don't know what it was, all it said
was "Commodore" on it.  Anyway, check your modem and see if there is a switch
on the outside of it.  It should say "T" and "D".  The "T" stands for talk, and
my guess is, the switch is in that possition.  When you hear the high-pitched
squeel, move the switch to the "D" (for Data).  It should connect then.

You see, with a lot of these old modems, they didn't auto-answer or auto-dial.
You had to do it manually.

BTW, I used CGTERM on my 64 and it worked just fine for me. Alas, I don't know
were you can get it now.  Look for it.

Good Luck,


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris "Slothman" Stoy |  DISCLAIMER: The views expressed within are not
cms129 at psuvm       |  mine but those of my pet hamster Gizmo. HE'S
cms129@psuvm.psu.edu  |  responsible for this! Blame him!        ^^^^
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
From: spacek@cactus.org (Mark S. Spacek)
Subject: Re: >>games and the C64
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:38:59 GMT

>>Does anybody remember FORBIDDEN FOREST?
>Who remembers Vic 20 games?
>Such as....
>	Radar Rat Race?
>       (and some others I don't know)
 
 I remember Forbidden Forest, but never got into it much.  I liked Super Huey
from the same company a bit better.  Below the Root was the first one I really
got hooked on.  I liked Radar Rat Race.  I had the 64 cartridge.  I only played
it on a Vic20 once, and found it more playable and fun than the 64 version.
Radar Rat Race seemed to be an almost direct rip-off of an arcade game I used
to play with race cars and flags rather than rats/cheese/cats, I don't recall
the name of the arcade game.  Mark...

Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
From: dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca (Michael 'Moose' Dinn)
Subject: Re: >>games and the C64
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:57:20 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.153859.2806@cactus.org> spacek@cactus.org (Mark S. Spacek) writes:
>got hooked on.  I liked Radar Rat Race.  I had the 64 cartridge.  I only played
>it on a Vic20 once, and found it more playable and fun than the 64 version.
>Radar Rat Race seemed to be an almost direct rip-off of an arcade game I used

The Vic versions of a lot of games were better.

Omega Race (paddles, not joystick) and Radar Rat Race were notable examples.

--
 Michael Dinn, CS Student  |  dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca, dinn@appliedmicro.ns.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm