HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: White Trash
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:39:00 GMT

In article <92282.194500U27876@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U27876@uicvm.uic.edu>                    writes...
>I agree 100% with the gentleman who posted this article.  Lau-"runt" had no
> right to criticize Thailand, the Thai government, or the Thai people.  I

Why not?  Why do I have no right?

>mean who is he anyway?  He's nothing but a snot-nose, scumbag, intellectually
>inferior, limy British twerp.  I don't care if he got a PhD.  To him this

How would you know what I am like?

>title is Ph- "Dork".  He should be banned from this newsgroup (and better
> yet, this planet) if he doesn't have anything nice to say.


Is this group only for people who have something nice to say about Thais?
Are you sure that is the intention?  Is it okay for use by people like
you who have rude things to say about farangs, or is it only for people
who have something nice to say in general?  If the former, isn't that a
little one-sided?  If the latter why are you posting this kind of garbage?

Laurence

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: panu@sol.acs.unt.edu (Sittiwong Panu)
Subject: Re: world
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:05:59 GMT

godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:

>Does anyone else agree with me that Schitt's postings are getting a bit
>boring and seem unconnected with any threads on this group, other than
>Schitt.  If this goes on I shall have to post my entire PhD thesis.

>Laurence

I can't believe that I saw this post from someone who were brought up
in the Democratic society.  What you are saying is equal to indirect
censorship to me.  All the participants of S.C.T. have equal right to
post anything that are related to Thailand.  That goes for your PhD thesis
if it's related to Thailand. 

In my opinion S.C.T. is probably one of the group which has majority of
its news related to the name of the group.  I don't think I saw one
for sale message here.  Please don't try to change the S.C.T group to
S.C.T.but.only.what.I.want.to.read.

Panu Sittiwong
Academic Computing Services
University of North Texas                   Panu@unt.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: anuchit@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Anuchit Anuchitanukul)
Subject: Re: Demand-Supply of S&T Manpower in Thailand
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 07:21:24 GMT

In article <MepZrFi00WBM07XUZV@andrew.cmu.edu> Schitt Laowattana <sl2k+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>                  Demand-Supply of S&T Manpower in Thailand
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Level |            Supply                 |              Demand
>      | Engineering  Sciences  Agriculture| Engineering  Sciences Agriculture
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Bachelor Degree
>
>2539    6,719        3,936     4,932         5,686        3,590    -

So, 6719-5686 newly graduated engineers will be unemployed in the year 
2539 (1996??) and so do 3936-3590 scientists.   What do those 4,932 with
a Bachelor's degree in agriculture do?  Does zero demand imply unemployment
for them?  

I do not agree with the way that we are solving the engineer-shortage problem
today.  Many new universities are opened, many vocational schools are 
relabelled "university" and they start to give out so many B.Eng degrees
(probably with the same curriculum and with the same faculty).  
This is wrong.  We can't solve this shortage problem by simply increasing 
"quantity" and at the same time ignoring "quality". 

I personally feel that many engineering schools (even the big old brand-named 
ones) today supply the market with under-qualified engineers.  No need to 
mention many newly opened/upgraded schools which still can't figure out
who are going to teach courses. 

I have seen some newly graduated engineer who can't do calculus or even better
yet, an engineer who is an expert on (using) word processing (and that is the 
only thing he/she really knows).  Sitting in an interview committee can get you
a headache because the applicants are so under-qualified that you don't
want to hire any of them.  

The goverment have been pressuring the gov-owned universities to admit
more engineering students every year, despite the fact that the facilities
and human resources (e.g. lecturers) are limited.  

To be competitive in the modern world, we need technology.  We need
*quanlity* not quantity.  It's time that someone addresses this issue. 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: jonass@dit.lth.se (Jonas Skeppstedt)
Subject: Re: world
Organization: Department of Computer Engineering, Lund University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 07:51:14 GMT

Khun Laurence writes:
>Does anyone else agree with me that Schitt's postings are getting a bit
>boring and seem unconnected with any threads on this group, other than
>Schitt.  If this goes on I shall have to post my entire PhD thesis.
> 
>Laurence

I think they are very interesting.

Jonas
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: teera@emunix.emich.edu (Teerawat Pawittranon)
Subject: Re: an explanation from me
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 23:52:02 EDT
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> at all wrong with it even when it is directed at me.  For a farang in
> Thailand it is often extremely frustrating that the Thai people simply will
> not be open about what they think, frequently saying only what they 
> imagine the respondent wants them to say.  This makes many farang-Thai
> exchanges very polite, but there are often terrible suspicions on both sides.

Yes, but isn't this the problem one would face when one try to communicate
with another person who is from a different culture?  Being an international
person as you have said, I would think this kind of thing would be just a
peice of cake for you to overcome.  

If I understood you correctly, I think I would have difficulty in communicating
with you as well (to the level of your expectation).  I have never been on
the other side (in your shoes) before, so I do not know why you have felt
suspicions on your part when conversing with Thais?  (Have you felt like 
this when you communicate with people from other cultures?)  I must say that
I have not felt suspicions on others from different culture what I talked to
them (except when the situations and circumstances were as such ....
*suspicious* in nature themselves).  May be you should explain a little more
about the suspicions you have felt? 

> I have always maintained that these suspicions are frequently unjustified, and
> that there exists the possibility of much greater understanding when it
> is discovered that most differences arise from the method of expressing
> opinions rather than anything more fundamental.  I believe that I have partly 
> succeeded in producing Atypical farang-Thai exchanges which have been much
> more useful and honest than the usual sort.

Yes, you have succeeded in doing so.  But it also have generated exchanges
which are unaccepatble for most of readers (IMO).

> 
> Finally, I don't want to give the impression that I have been experimenting
> with this group, as I have not.  All the opinions and observations I have
> given are truthful, and if they have sometimes been contradictory or aggressive
> that is because the other's viewpoint has particularly upset me.
> 

You should be upset on those *name calling* viewpoints and rightly so.
However, controversial viewpoints posted by others or you should be viewed
as good food for the mind (as one poster suggested).  Hopefully we will
benefit from what we have read in this sct in the past few weeks.  At least
it should make us understand humankind better.  (useful just like you have
said).

owen,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing! ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: anuchit@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Anuchit Anuchitanukul)
Subject: Re: Proposed salary of S&T instructors in governmental universities
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 07:54:28 GMT

In article <EepaIre00WBM07XVMd@andrew.cmu.edu> Schitt Laowattana <sl2k+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>    Salary of a new instructor who has obtained a master degree will
>start at 15,000 baht/month.  Rate of increase (RI) is as follow:
>      - For the first five years, his salary will be increased 10% per year.
>      - Fifteen years later, RI is 7% per year. 
>      - Another fifteen years later, RI is 5% per year.
>    If he starts working at the age of 25, he will get his salary of
>135,000 baht/month when he is 60 years old.  

Wow, this is really exciting.  Perhaps, I should go back to academia world
after all.  My salary was 3500 baht when I got my B.Eng degree and worked in
a university (at the same time, my friends got 14000 out there in private
sector).  I believe that at that time a new Ajarn with a Ph.D. would
get only about 6100 baht.  (3500 baht = 140 US dollars.  6100 baht = 244
dollars.  What a pathetic job!  At one time, I talked with a taxi driver
in Thailand who told me that he made a lot more than I did.) 

During the last visit to Thailand, I learnt that a private university
will pay 25,000 baht for a new Ajarn with a Master's degree. 

>By implementing this plan,
>the national budget of 552 million baht per year must be allocated, as
>indicated in the following table:
>                       Annual Budget for S&T instructors    
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------  
>                      Current system    Proposed system    % increase
>Engineering                 131              300                169
>Sciences                    324              707                383
>Total                       455            1,007                552
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                        unit : million baht

I hate to do this but it is important to point out this error in the table.
The last column should not be "% increase" but simply "increase". 

								% inc 
Engineering                 131              300       169      129
Sciences                    324              707       383      118
Total                       455            1,007       552	121

It shocked me at the first glance that the budget was increased 552% !!!!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: On salary of S&T Manpower
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:22:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.164252.14940@usl.edu>, pxu8785@usl.edu (Uthayopas Putchong)      writes...
>>
>>-----
>Today, government try to push the university to increase the supply of
>engineer due to the current shortage. This lead to a lot of problem
> 
>	1. Due to limited resources and instructor , you can not guarantee
>the quality of engineer from government university any more.
>	2. Once they increase the supply when it excessive, it hard to
>cut down the change. Government organiztion structure is very slow in
>respond to changing situation.
> 
>I think that the government should not increase a lot of supply. Their function
>is to produce the qualified engineering as a reference of the quality of
>Thai engineer. And another important thing is to improve the quality of newly
>graduated student. Left the private engineer school produce another engineer,
>but apply a tighter control to the quality seem to be the best way to me.
>I do agree with Arjarn Schitt that the best way is to increase demand and job
>and growth of industry.
> 
>>Montree Suntichaikul
>>
>>suntich@ee.msu.edu
> 
>Putchong Uthayopas
> 
> 
This sort of problem is by no means confined to thailand.  In my own country,
the appalling Conservative government was been systematically undermining the
university education system (schools too) since it came to power in 1980.
They too identified areas in which they would like to have more graduates,
and tried to get them on the cheap by lowering the standards and cutting
the resources of the universities (in real terms) with the result that
the British degree itself has been seriouysly eroded in value.  recently,
they chose to address the problem of too few graduates by allowing most
of the colleges which used to be low-standard technical colleges, to call
themselves universities.  The result is that these establishments have
the appearance of universities without the quality, but will soon be
pouring large numbers of under-qualified graduates onto the job markets.

While I hesitate to say anything complimentary about Germany, it is worth
pointing out here that the word "engineer" is actually a legally protected
word there, and no-one can call him/herself an engineer unless he holds
a degree specificaly approved by the ONE institute in Germany that 
oversees the quality of engineers.  This is the same as is done in the
UK for medical doctors, and is clearly an excellent idea.  It could not
now be done in the UK for engineers, as it would conflict with government
policy.

Laurence
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: Money Money Money
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:29:00 GMT
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <1992Oct16.053501.5840@gw.wmich.edu>, cooneys@gw.wmich.edu                      writes...
>Readers of this group will have gathered an impression of 
>Dr. Godfrey's character (he called himself "confrontational" 
>I recall). I'm sure we wondered to ourselves (I know I did) 
>how far his personality contributed to the clash he 
>describes, and we are keenly interested to hear the other 
>participants' accounts.
> 
You're probably (certainly) correct in suggesting that my confrontational
nature contributed to the clash (for example, the guards surrounding the
building which happened after I made it clear that I would not simply do what
was expected and let the matter drop)

I think that had this simply been the type of dispute that often occurs in
academic communities (for example about teaching loads, contribution to research
papers, apportioning of funds for projects etc.) one could try to blame me
for the whole thing, but it wasn't a dispute of that type.  Confrontation only
occured after false statements had been made, after a lot of evasiveness
had taken place, a threat had been made etc., and none of those things were my own
doing.

I'm glad to see that while you suggest I may have been aggravating the situation
by reacting in an active way to what happened, you do not cast doubt on the
truth of the facts I provided in my letters that were posted.

regards Laurence

PS.  I don't know of an other situation exactly like the one I found myself
in at cmu, but when working at universities in Thailand one hears of similar
tales, but one never knows how true they are.  In this case it happened to
someone who is used to fighting back and who wasn't prepared to "roll over
and play dead" as many farang do when they feel threatened.  Also, as a
sometime freelance journalist I am used to documenting facts and was able
to write them down as they happened.  The person with whom I had the dispute
is also not a novice at handling problems of this kind - he has had many
disputes with Thai ajans at cmu and elsewhere, and has always managed to
emerge as the winner because the ajans concerned have not been willing to
risk their careers by continuing to oppose him.  I did, however, meet one
ajan who was in a different class and was even willing to stick his neck
out for me by supporting mmy account of events from his own knowledge
of the person with whom I had the dispute.  He is not an ajan at cmu but
works at another university in Thailand, and is probably their most widely
respected and well-known physicist.  I can provide his name to any Thai
readers who email me.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: strisiri@Nimitz.mcs.kent.edu (Supakiat Trisiripisal)
Subject: Everyone
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:54:51 GMT

I have been reading all articles in this Thai group for a month.  I got a kind of 
feeling that all of you are doing something wrong. I would like to ask everyone
what the propose of this soc.culture.thai is. I am tried of reading all unuseful 
articles.  I want all of you post something that is more useful to everyone, not
using this news group to debate as an article FARANG, LOW CLASS or GODFREE's
World. I am looking forward to a article about what is going on in Thailand or a
article that has a content more useful to Thai people in aboard.

sorry for bad english, Thank you.
	

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: olmstead@sail.uwaterloo.ca ()
Subject: Land use
Originator: olmstead@sail.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:36:58 GMT

Kuhn Thian's stuff:

>A while ago, one of us mentioned about the danger of a very rapid
>deforestation in our country.  Here is just an opinion from a person with
>no experience in science and agriculture like me.
>I've recently seen many documents pointing many advantages of marijuana. 
>It's known to be an excellent source to make paper, cclothings,
>furnitures, cooking oil, alternative fuels, madizines, etc.  Also
>marijuana grows almost in any climate without much attention from farmers

Given the high prices that Thai and Farang criminals will pay for drugs
the cultivation of marijuana would be a policing nightmare. Production of
drugs to treat glaucoma and relieve the suffering of AIDS
and cancer patients may be viable though. 

>Another thought I've had is that Thailand should skip all toxic and
>waistful type of industry that most western countries have been through. 
>Instead, we should use many alternative, new age approach, such as, a
>hightech and environmentally sound food and health industry.  I think we
>should take advantage of having one of the most fertile lands in the world
>in a more constructive way.

Being a student of civil and environmental engineering I can tell you 
that there is a huge mess in the west. As many postings have pointed
out though Thailand already has lots of industry and it may be a little
late to completly "skip" everything. 

I don't know much about the new age view of life.  I assume they
borrow eastern ideals in the sense they look at things as a whole, or a
system. Farang should have done this a long time ago, instead, we beleived
that the earth was here at our disposal. Now look what we've done.

>Any commends and/or suggestions are definitely welcomed here.

Thailand's development is the responsibilty of the Thais. It is
hypocritical of the west to say you shouldn't strip your forests or dump
heavy metals in your rivers when we continue to do so. Even if we
stopped it is not our place to offer solutions to your country. Our
mistakes speak for themselves.

In business terms, any country would be wise to develop
environmentaly friendly technology. Everyone is going to have to buy it
sooner or later.

Mike
olmstead@sail.uwaterloo.ca

s.c.t. math: number of messages posted is inversley proportional to the
amount of assignments and essays that are due.
From: emaruchi@meena.cc.uregina.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Thai forests were controlled by Farangs (English)
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:15:13 GMT
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Sask., Canada

This is not another conflict between Farang-Thai.  I only want to share some
general knowledge about our forests.  You know, the first general director of
the Royal Forest Department of Thailand was a Farang named Mr. Sleight (or
some thing like this).  He came from England to do logging business in Burma.
During that time, we did not have any concern about conservation at all.  The
major activities in the Forest Department is to cutting timber and replantation.  That's why we hired Farang logging people to be our Director General.  Those
Farangs loved hunting very much.  You may know Ampor Hang-shut in Lampang.  It
was once called "hang-sat" (a place on a tree used for waiting animal to come,
and then shoot it).  Farangs loved to hunt in this place. I don't know why
the name "Hang-sat" was changed to "Hang-shut".
        So, almost one hundred years ago we have logging people to control
our forests.  At the present time, we also have logging business men working
in the Ministry of Agriculture and control the forest policy.  Thai forests
have long been abused by many groups of people.  Many local mafias used forests
as their sources of power. Many MP also used forests as their gain for election.Now, it's time for us to protect our forests.

                                Bunlur Emaruchi

                                Forest Village Development Program
                                Royal Forest Department of Thailand

                                Faculty of Engineering
                                University of Regina
                                Canada
From: U25256@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: Low Class
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:06:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92285.140659U25256
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 11 Oct 1992 13:35:29 CDT
From: <U25256@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject:    Re: Low Class