HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: God vs Democracy
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 23:45:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.224021.19606@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>In article <1992Oct16.215545.8348@wuecl.wustl.edu> yl2@cec2.wustl.edu (Yu-fung  
>Liu) writes:
>> God vs Democracy
>> 
>> God dictated bible.
>> Bible dictated us.
>> Authoritarian.
>> 
>> We select bible.
>> Bible select God.
>> Democracy.
>> 
>> This is not a two way street.
>> Can anyone suggest me a direction?
>
>
>I hope God does not act against democracy. If he does, I will choose democracy  
>instead of God. Otherwise, I will probably choose both God and democracy.
>
>Carl
Slavery is condoned by Bible.
From: ma@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Oct 1, our National Day
Date: 9 Oct 92 12:32:25 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <ldbeulINN9jb@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin) writes:
> FYI: the silicon valley in Chinese is Si Gu. It has been that name for
> decades. Recently, more mainlanders come in Si Gu and they have surprised
> the people: they rename   "Si Gu"   as   "Gui Gu".
> I checked my dictionary, there is no Gui in Chinese. Ha, CR made it!

My dictionary has both words, Gui and Xi. They mean the same, and can be used
interchangeably. I learnt them in different terms, like XiGangPian (silicon
steel plate), and GuiSuanYan (silicate). I still call the Silicon Valley as
GuiGu, but I have no objection if you call it XiGu. I believe SiGu refers
to the Death Valley.

> Some day I wonder that my grandson may not be able to bring me home, if my son
> marries a mainlander (she would call it Gui Gu while we live in Si Gu).:-)
> 
The SiGu has no perminant inhabitant as I visted last winter. May be you are
the first one 
 
(some deleted) 

> FYI, there is a place in the Front Gate of Beijing used to be named as
> Da Za Lan, now people called it Da San Lan. There is a town in Taipei
> called Mu Za, it shouldn't never be called Mu San.

Did you make this up? That character has two pronounciations, Zha4 and Shan1.
In the word Zha4Lan, it is indeed pronounced as Zha4. When a character has
more than one pronounciations, it is properly pronounced according to the
combinations with other characters. You can wildly derive. Did your elementary
school teacher tell you that?

> 
>>BTW: I did not recognize "Quei" when you wrote "Wu San Quei" in your previous 
>>post. Could you kindly tell me what is your original meaning?
>>
> Wu San Quei (Qui) was the person who opened Beijing City Gate to let Qing
> army enter into Beijing. His character was same as Qin Kuai who betrayed
> his country.

What is Qui, BTW?
Ma

> 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:27847 soc.culture.taiwan:14379 soc.culture.hongkong:12538
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo)
Subject: Re: Oct. 1 or Oct. 10, which is the more important day for China?
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:30:38 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Oct13.232426.19603@zip.eecs.umich.edu> cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
>
>>Purto Rico is part of US, are they any better than taiwan?
>
>Giving 40 years, Purto Rico will be no difference than any other U.S. state.
> 
But now given the present trend of US economy and national debt,
after 40 years, the US would ....,  and there would be no
difference between Purto Rico and US anyway.
So you are right on this.

Just a joke, don't be serious.
From: stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: ROC VS. PROC
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:11:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: stevelin

In article <Bw75CA.Kt1@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan) writes:
>>>>
>>can see of Shanghai today was left over as that of 40 years ago.
>>Even the Shanghai airport was still that old. Oh, correction, a part
>>of new addition was completed in August 1992 after 43 years under CCP.
>>See, how great CCP management is!
>>
>Sorry, some small correction. Before the 80's Shanghai airport was Lung
>Hua Airport not the current Hong Qiao Airport, which was a military one.
>If you've seen the movie "The Sun of Empire" then it was where the Lung
>Hua Airport supposed location with the pagoda nearby.
>
Good point, that was left over military airport, but was still that old!
When the airplane taking off Hong Qiao, people can see clearly that all
the residential houses surround the airport. The airport is dead, no
future. The maximum capacity is two runways.

That was the case of Taipei Airport at Song-shan. People in Taiwan have 
got sense to protest that airport is too close to residential area,
people are suffering from the big noise of Boeing 747s. The airport has
to go, or reduce the capacity.

Taipei Airpost at Taoyuan was a military base too. It was designed as
the number one in Asia in 70s. Unlike the 90s airport at Shanghai, passengers
have to walk a long way to ckeck out or to check in; the domestic passengers
still have to walk toward airplane.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: jyw@phys.psu.edu (Jin-Yuan Wu)
Subject: Re: Tuition from Parents (was Re: Fax to Mr. Bush ...)
Organization: Penn State, Department of Physics
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:36:47 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.185001.15630@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>Then, could you please tell why MSc. and Ph.D holders should pay more back to 
>the government if they want to go abroad.
>
>Carl

Just as what I already said:

>> 	That's bad of course. Using the way of collecting money to eliminate
>> 	"brain drain" has many negative effects.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: gretchen@yap.las.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: *-*-*-* Yeh Shannon is a spy of CCP government !!! *-*-*
Organization: Speech Comm, University of Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 02:53:07 GMT

In article <Bvw2D8.MBE@news.cso.uiuc.edu> fgg8386@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Fangpu Gao) writes:

>gangzhou@sal-sun124.usc.edu (Gang Zhou) writes:

>>He is too stupid to be a spy. He is just mad.

>>G. Zhou

>>L.A.


I just wondering why "he is just mad." From his email address, we can see 
that he has a job here at U.S (hopefully not in CIA). 

Another question is "He is too stupid to be a spy."  Are you sure all the 
spies are clever?
 
Just joking. Tired of working and studying for long hours. Let's have a 
break.  Thank Shannon for entertaining us.


 Speech Communication Department
 University of Illinois
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: wang@math.psu.edu (Feng Wang)
Subject: Re: Qin Kuai (Re: Oct 1, our National Day)
Reply-To: wang@math.psu.edu
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, Penn State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:36:02 GMT

In article 1b2c1fINNs5@liverbug.hsc.usc.edu, jamesou@liverbug.hsc.usc.edu (James Ou) writes:
>
>****Ren2 Zi4 Song4 Hou4 Shao3 Ming2 Kuai4,
          ^^^            ^^^^^
        Cong2(since)     Xiu1(ashame of)

>    Wo3 Dao4 Fen2 Qian2 Kui4 Xing4 Qin2.
>

This is what I heard it is.  I think it is at least better sound in terms of
Ping2 Ze4.
From: liu@vorpal.ucsb.edu (Feng-Chuan Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Looking for Li JiangLiang at U. Utah
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:35:07 GMT

I'm looking for Mr. JiangLiang Li at the Univ. of Utah. Please reply to 
liu@tweedledee.ucsb.edu,  Fengchuan Liu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: huangs@ecf.toronto.edu (HUANG SUNG CHING)
Subject: Re: Oct 10, Our National Day
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 06:30:08 GMT

In article <9228516.17301@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:
>I wonder if Singaporeans do the same thing - i.e. celebrate
>10 Oct.

     No, in Singapore they have their own national day, which is 9 August. 
Singapore has already cut off any diplomatic relation with Taiwan maybe two 
years ago.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (su jianfeng)
Subject: Re: Oct 10, Our National Day
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 01:24:07 GMT

In article <9228600.26712@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> swl@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Samuel Wai Kay LEUNG) writes:
>jlam@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Lord Automato) writes:
>
>>Why do Singaporeans do the same? Many of them don't think themselves as Chinese.
>
>Even I don't think THEY are chinese, most of them are only a sort of 
>"RUNNING DOG" who like only to speak English and pretend not understanding
>Chinese.   :(
>
>
>Samuel

They are human beings.

J Su

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: (FWD upon requestion) Response to Shannon Yeh
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:13:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.204301.20668@serval.net.wsu.edu> hlu@eecs.wsu.edu (H.J.  
Lu) writes:
> In article <Bvv6E1.Ezr@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, tang@riemann.math.purdue.edu  
(Puqi Tang) writes:
> 
> 
> |> I can't help laughing by reading your lines which reminds me of the song"
> |> the CCP is better than my mother...." Haaahaaaa, what a crap.
> 
> That is one of the ugliest songs I have ever heard. That reminds me of other
> things:
> 
> |> Chenjian Li
> |> Purdue Univ.
> 
> H.J.

In fact, there were people fooled by CCP propaganda as to regraded CCP better  
than their mother. Here is another true story (I will bet Yang Ze will doubt  
it, but it's OK). It happened during CR in the countryside in Zhejiang  
Province. The house of a farmer was on fire. The farmer first rushed into the  
house to rescue Chairmao's statue. After he put the statue at a safe place, he  
rushed in to rescue his mother. But his mother had already severly burned  
(still alive, thank God). I wondered what would Shannon do if he were in such a  
situation. Also, I wondered if Shannon really loves Mao, or just "Ye4 Gong1  
Hao4 Long2" (Mr. Ye like dragon), or even just fools around.

After I read so many of his posts, It seems that he really loves Mao, remembers  
Mao's "warm education" and "carve Mao's words on the tip of his heart" so that  
each time his heart send his blood to his brain, Mao's words go there too. 

Carl
From: chenwei@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Chenwei Yan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Where are the Japanese?
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:54:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: en.1992Oct8.175406.11237
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <Oct.7.23.44.17.1992.15263@electron.rutgers.edu> zzhang@electron.rutgers.edu (ZhiZhong Zhang) writes:
>Looking at the names of posters, I am suprised to see that very small 
>percentage of people who post in this group are Japanese. Why is this?
>Where are the Japanese? 

I would assume there is a news group "soc.culture.japan" or something like that.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: jiyang@wavelet (Jiyang Xu)
Subject: Re: Silk valley has a "Kuai" tree?
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:58:15 GMT

In article <BvvBEs.LxJ@cs.psu.edu> jyw@phys.psu.edu (Jin-Yuan Wu) writes:
>Gui1: a non-metal element, symble Si, old name Xi1, ...
>BTW: The writen form of Gui1 and Xi1 are different. 
>Calling "Xi Gu" is ok but "Si Gu" will be somewhere has silk.
>
>The Xinhua Dictionary is on top of my desk. Anything you want find out?

I really get annoyed by seeing so many Mainlanders accusing Taiwanese
for not being able to spell Pin- Yin- "correctly".  Keep in mind they
have not been taught Pin- Yin-; watch how many mainlanders cannot get
their Pin- Yin- straight!

By the way, there have been some standardization effort made by Chinese
government, "Gui-" and "Xi-" is just one example to unify different usage
La-Ji- (trash, pronouced as Le`Se` in old days and still in Taiwan today)
is another example. This is probably due to most people Du'Bai'Zi`, and
then the authority decides to make it legal and standard.

Some netter mentioned Ji~Nan'. I was born in the city and lived their
for over twenty years. It had always been pronouned as Ji`Nan' by the
radio stations and other formal media. Most dictionaries, however, indicate
the character should be pronounced as Ji~, originated from the river of
Ji~. Also, the native dialect also has the ~ tone pronunciation (there
is an almost one-to-one correspondence between the 4 tones in Ji~Nan'
dialect and Beijing dialect). When I visited back the city a few years
ago, I found out that all ridio/TV stations started to use Ji~ as the
pronunciation again.

-- Ji`Yang' Xu'

C
Some netter mentioned Ji~
-- 
========================================================================
Jiyang Xu                               /  /-\    \ __|__  -- ___
U S WEST Advanced Technologies         // /---\   \  \_/   |/ | |
4001 Discovery Drive                   /| --|--    | / \   |} |-|
From: utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Crabs
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:32:58 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

In article <1992Oct16.133152.5349@linus.mitre.org> 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao) writes:
> 
......
>
>1) What is "Tuya has missed XRS" means?
>
He keeps praising Xiao Run Shu. 

>2) Maryland has a lot of crabs and very cheap too.  Believe it or not, most
>American do not like female crabs (with yellow Gao).
>
Are they fresh water crabs? Otherwise the meat won't be that tender.

>3) Don't keep your secret.  Tell us how to prepare the sause.
>
No secret at all. Only depends on individual choise, like sugar, ginger,
rice wine, black vinigar, soy sause. The mixture will be better than
lemon and butter for sure. I perfer use my own sause for lobster. (What
a daydream, I should get lobster first)

>MSWD
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: ccchen@isw1.sw.ccu.edu.tw (CHEN, CHUN-CHUAN)
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Department of Social Welfare, CCU
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:38:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.063228.27583@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, wcwang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Wei-Chi Wang) writes...
>In article <BuCEr5.JB9@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
> 
>Wei-Chi Wang
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hello, 

  This is not a letter talking about F-16. But I am wondering that are
you graduated from National Cheng-chi University, Taiwan?


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan)
Subject: Re: Shannon's Bedroom (was Re: Shannon, Bush, and others)
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:52:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.203309.11139@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> tylee@austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee) writes:
>
>In article <1992Oct12.164356.15101@news.acns.nwu.edu>, usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>> 
......
>
>Better yet, the toilet tissue is made out of Mao's books.
>
Shhhh, this is a crime of counter-revolution.

Tingli Pan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong)
Subject: Re: 9201 people will be more active
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:08:47 GMT

In article <Bw47L5.CDw@cs.psu.edu> echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng) writes:
>
>	Well, basically I am not blaming CSS for misleading US *into* 
>granting immigration, although that is a direct consequence of 
>the misleading.  

You should have done that DISCRIMINATIVELY instead of categorily, after
all only a few hundred of CSS in the U.S. were actively involved in the
lobby process and less than 20% of the 100,000 beneficiaries actually 
quite know how the bill got passed (they don't read SCC/net news :-)

>I am blaming CSS for misleading the US to perceive 
>China as a nation is still in the dark days of her 50s and 60s.  

One thing for sure is unchanged: The ruling party - The Communist Party
of China will do whatever to keep itself in power, including killing
people on streets in the Capital city.  They hadn't done that until/before 
June 4th 1989 (they even didn't "in the dark days of her 50s and 60s"), 
so you never know :-)

>Particularly they try to project the image that *any* CSS would not 
>be able to live in China, for whatever their blah blah reason.

It depends on HOW TO LIVE THERE, sure one can live there like a pig, as
a Gao Gan, as a lip-sealed man, and many other ways that make BIG
difference to themselves, and that's why almost everyone of SCCers, 
including you and me, choose to stay here :-)

>	Again, I can not care less what Uncle Sam wants to do for/to
>other people.  It is their business, not mine.  It wants these people
>for its own reason and CSS pushed for a perfect excuse.  What I
>care is the honesty and morality of my fellow CSS, especially when
>such things are damaging the interests of China and people living
>in China.

The category/Indiscriminative word "CSS" here too misleads :-)

>	Just goes to show some true faces in the "lobby task force".  People
>are responsible only on what they themselves have said or done.

This looks much better and distinguishes/DISTANCES yourself from 
Shannon Yeh/Shi Chungde/Z.Z. Qi and other 9201 Suctioners :-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bo Xiong in Chicago
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: lieqiu@alfred.carleton.ca (Liebin Qiu)
Subject: looking for Miss Wang Feng (coming from Beijing)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:29:31 GMT


If you know Miss Wang Feng, a Chinese student now studying in U.S.A.,
please tell me her address by email, or tell her my information:

Qiu Liebin
36E - 1411 Morisset Ave.
Ottawa, Ont., Canada K1Z 8H3
email: lieqiu@ccs.carleton.ca

Thank you.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:27502 soc.culture.hongkong:12279 soc.culture.taiwan:14248
From: matloff@mole.Berkeley.EDU (Norman Matloff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: SURVEY -- who do you hope wins the U.S. election?
Date: 12 Oct 92 02:45:51 GMT
Organization: Division of Computer Science, UC Davis


**************************************************************************

		 SURVEY   SURVEY   SURVEY   SURVEY

**************************************************************************


Please send me your answers to this survey by e-mail.  It doesn't
matter what your status is, e.g. U.S. citizen or not; everyone's 
opinion is solicited and welcome.  I will announce the statistical
results after compiling them.

1.  Who do you hope wins the U.S. presidential election next month?

    (a)  Bill Clinton.
    (b)  George Bush.
    (c)  Ross Perot.

2.  The following are summaries of comments made by the three 
    presidential candidates in today's debate, on the question
    of continuing Most Favored Nation (MFN) status for China. 
    Please read them and then indicate which one you like best.

    (a)  Bill Clinton:  
    
	 The U.S. should support the students who protested in 
	 Tiananmen Square in 1989.  The U.S. has been too friendly 
	 with the Chinese government, and thus has been sending
	 both the student protestors and the Chinese officials
	 the wrong message.  Therefore the U.S. should place some
	 trade restrictions on trade with China if China doesn't
	 improve its human rights record.

    (b)  George Bush:

	 We have to make it very clear to the Chinese government
	 that we don't at all condone suppression of human rights.
	 But if we were to place restrictions on trade with China, we
	 would harm the people who are trying to bring about reforms
	 in the direction of capitalism and economic freedom.  We
	 would also do terrible harm to the people of Hong Kong.
	 Therefore there should not be restrictions on trade with
	 China.

    (c)  Ross Perot:

	 We have to be very careful:  On the one hand, we don't want 
	 to give the Chinese government the impression that we condone 
	 repression of dissent.  But on the other hand, capitalism is 
	 thriving in large parts of China, and the country has made a 
	 lot of progress.  The human rights issue will take care of 
	 itself, as the quite elderly Chinese leaders die off and are 
	 replaced by newer, more open-minded people.  China will be an
	 extremely important consumer of U.S. export products as it
	 grows, and we should do our best to develop economic relations
	 with China.
			
    Whose stand on the MFN issue do you like best?  (Please choose only
    one.)

    (a)  Bill Clinton.
    (b)  George Bush.
    (c)  Ross Perot.

3.  Please indicate your place of birth:

    (a)  China (i.e. PRC).
    (b)  Taiwan.
    (c)  U.S.
    (d)  Other.

Again, please reply by E-MAIL, to 

   matloff@heather.cs.ucdavis.edu

I will announce the statistical results.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: ping@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Shiping Zhang)
Subject: Re: What do I think about the "Protection Bill" ?
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:40:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.113514.3396@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>
>When a massacre occurs, a lot sympathy goes out from almost everyone who 
>hears about it. This is certainly true about the Tiananmen Massacre in the
>U.S. The massacre got almost as much attention (for a few days) as the Gulf
>War: there were round the clock updates and special reports which broke into
>regular programming. So the U.S. felt like it should do something to help
>out.

  Like what?
 
>But the good will of the U.S. is a limited commodity.

  The will is probably not limited, but its power or capability is.

>                                                      Instead of using the
>massacre to pressure the U.S. to put pressure on the CCP for human rights
>improvements within China,

  U.S. has been pressed hard on the issue.

>                           almost all the attention was focussed on granting
>freedom for the Chinese in the U.S.

  What's wrong about this?

>                                    (who I believe are really in no more
>difficulty than any other Chinese in China--except for a limited few).

  That's because they are in U.S. now.

>                                                                        So
>now the U.S. has done its part. All the capital available was used up 
>fighting for this bill.

  Sounds like listening to a financial report. From a financial manager?
  
>The CSS in the U.S. should have said, "We don't want protection!

  Some CSS have been saying that.

>                                                                 We want 
>the human rights situation improved in China so that we can return to China."

  Some CSS have have been saying that.

>Such a move would have put the pressure on Bush to veto MFN,

  CSS just don't want Bush to veto MFN, so the move was made, but not for
  such a purpose.

>                                                             or to make some
>other significant move concerning human rights in China. 

  Many moves have been made on the issue.

>So the bus was stolen from the people who really need the help of foreign
>countries like the U.S.: those who are fighting for democracy in China.

  If you are talking about green cards,  do you mean those fighting in
  China should be issued green cards?

>To go from one analogy to another, in English we say, "you stole their 
>thunder".

  Meaning "you stole their green cards"?

>          You took all the good will they generated through their sacrifice 
>on 6/4 and used it for your own good.

  For every body's good. Nothing wrong not to exclude oneself, unless
  you use "Lai Feng"'s moral standard.

-ping

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong