HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett)
Subject: Re: Games and the C64...
Organization: Murdoch University
Date:  6 Nov 92 02:52:41 GMT

tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:

>In article <Bx6DBq.ByC@cs.dal.ca> dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca (Michael 'Moose' Dinn)
>writes:

>>I hauled out my C128 after a 4 year no-play-with.
>>I love it.
>>Games that are PLAYABLE (and typically under 170K :).

>And all things considered, I'd say that entertainment software on the 8-bit
>platforms remains far more innovative in comparison to today's offerings.
>Of course, it may be entirely the result of the more lucrative console
>market.

>Remember Raid on Bungling Bay and Lode Runner? Classics.

This news group just keeps getting better ;-)
Its flash-back time. Go 64!

When I think about my 64 (which is still working) there are so many
classic games.  Lode Runner (and Championship LR), Paradroid, 
David's Midnight Magic, Elite, Druid, Delta, Uridium, 
International Soccer (Yes!), Raid on Bungling Bay, International Karate
(Don't the forget the ledgendary, Way of the Exploding Fist ;-) Pitstop II
Racing Destruction Set (Where's the Amiga conversion) and many many more.

-- Torban Bennett  torban@murdoch.edu.au  "Game over boys!" - Mr Flibble --
 

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: 386sx Bridgeboard 
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:13:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.071631.5441@desire.wright.edu> fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:

>	I would be perfectly happy with a bug free 286 BB.  Too bad one
>	doesn't exit.  The 386sx BB with CGA is not cost effective because,
>	for the most part CGA software is obsolete on that class processor.
>	i.e  Know anyone using Windows with CGA?  The BB is a good idea,
>	it just hasn't been executed properly and is too expensive.

CGA is undoubtedly quite useless, but with VGA cards going for as low as $30,
the point is rather moot. For $650 CDN (~$520 U.S.), the bridgeboard is a
reasonable compromise. What we really need is more third party competition in
this domain, which would make this option more cost effective. Reportedly,
GVP is planning a series of 32-bit PC emulators, while Vortex has a 486 SLC
card available now.
From: nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga or Messy-DOS?
Keywords: Amiga,PC
Date: 14 Nov 92 00:28:39 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

etxtsg@solsta.ericsson.se (Thomas Grennefors  TX/DKF) writes:

>No flames please (but i realise that this is highly unlikely when posting
>to this group :-). Anyone that can come up with any good arguments to why i
>should stick with the Amiga. And no. Amiga is cool is not a good argument.
>Let me see if you can convince me that i should stick with the Amiga.


>Thomas Grennefors         ! What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
>Ericsson Telecom,Karlstad ! What do you mean, an African or a European swallow?
>etxtsg@solsta.ericsson.se ! Well...I don't know...AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think that is supposed to be: "I don't know that."
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  === 1200 Released this Week ====
Distribution: world
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:41:47 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <Paula_Lieberman.070k@amicol.UUCP> Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman) writes:
>re article by Ian Kennedy -- the low end Macs have 68030 engines, which are
>more capable than 68020 engines, especially 68E020 engines that are memory
>access crippled......  the 16 bit bus on the low end Macs is something
>the average Mac user hasn't got the sophistication to even be aware of, but
>the increment from 68000 -> 68020 -+0> 68030  IS visible.  And, for stuff
>that is doing a lot of internal processing and not doing lots of memory
>access, a 68030 on a 16 bit bus will outperform an  addressing-limited
>68E020.

What were the two machines that you used for the comparison?

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Oh my God!  Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:47:58 GMT

x90wardell@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>> All that says is you expanded one system more than the other and then
>> looked for similarities.  You will find few.
>
>	I would have been happy to expand my Amiga 2000.  But the
>iBM bridgeboard was  and still is  a ripoff.  I couldn't improve
>the graphics in such a way that I could hope to have any apps
>support it.  The software support was dismal, I couldn't upgrade
>the sound very much cheaply.  And add a hard drive?  Only if I
>wanted to pay some major bucks (compared to an IBM compatible).

Yes, the entire issue there is cost.  You will find must better
cost per performance deals with IBM-clones since there are so
many.  For someone less constrained by costs a real performance
comparison can be made.  I realize this is all obvious.

>	Moreover, many Amiga nuts (including myself, I used to claim
>that my Amiga could do Cad faster than any IBM due to its graphics
>coprocessing) fail to look at the reality of things.  The Amiga 500
>and 2000 are good for 7 mhz machines, but they are still just 7 mhz (7.7).

It is true that a stock A500 and A2000 (1986 computers) have 7 MHz
68000's.  These can be, and often are, upgraded.  Companies that sell
Toaster workstations, for example, always include a 68030 or 040.
Claiming a stock A500 or A2000 is faster than a 486 system is just
foolish; there isn't even a foundation for comparing the two.

>It does show on many things including games.  I also like to play games
>and the latest Amiga offerings just can't hold a candle to what my
>IBM can do.  That is, except for arcade games which the Amiga still does
>generally nicer than IBMs.  But then again, I could go buy a Sega
>Genesis to take care of that if I had a need for shoot em up games.

I do not subscribe to the philosophy of buying yet another system to
fill separate needs when one system will do.  In any event, no one will
ever agree on which computer has the best games.

>	I just don't see good space flight games anymore for the Amiga
>that are comparible to IBM games and as someone said, there will never
>be a Falcon 3.0 like game for the Amiga or a good Ultima Underwords
>type game simply because the major software vendors are not going
>to waste money developing for a machine that has sold only about
>5 million since its birth.

They have before.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: 22black@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Martin Black)
Subject: Re: The Amiga-1200 is not for me...
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 21:01:39 GMT

fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:

>	The CGA emulation on the A2286 is fairly slow, not bad, but slow.
>	I'm not even close to understanding how the A2286 works, but maybe
>	too much of the CGA emulation is being done with software. 
>	Is it possible to build a BB with a TSENG4000 chip(s) on board to do
>	part of the display crunching before sending it to the Amiga side?

Well the first problem with emulating cga is that you aren't going to get
the speed of cga which is text graphics on a pure graphics machine.  But
with a pure graphics vga on an aga amiga, there shouldn't be much slow down
between aga on amiga and vga bb.  Of course people told me that there needs
to be more shared memory to make this possible, but that shouldn't be too 
much prob.  And yes there needs to be an actual ibm formatted partition
and not the fake partition.  In fact I wouldn't be much surprised if that
the a4000 should have quicker vga than most vga boards out there.

Martin


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Marc Barrett... More lies?  Film at eleven.
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:05:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.001333.60790@cc.usu.edu> slhmz@cc.usu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Nov13.054353.18497@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, clueless@bradley.edu (Mark Kristie) writes:
>> Marc N. Barrett (barrett@iastate.edu) wrote:
>> : In article <sf0jj5i00iUz87ghhK@andrew.cmu.edu> bc2y+@andrew.cmu.edu (Brian T Cheek) writes:
>> : >It's funny to see people compare the price of an A4000+EMPLANT with a
>> : >Quadra.  The Amiga configuration might be cheaper, so might the Quadra.
>> : >
>> : >You forget one thing; how much is a Quadra system that emulates an Amiga?
>> : 
>> :    The price of the Quadra plus $300.
>> : 
>> : >-Brian :)
>> : | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>> 
>> WHAAAT?
>
>Yes, Marc.  I am sure we all are waiting to know what the hell you are
>talking about.  Please enlighten our stupid brains...

Okay, stupid brain - he was saying that an Amiga500 might be had for
$300... (Dan senses it is sinking in...)

>Faith
-- 
Dan Stephenson                                                 das9674@usl.edu  
"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while we
lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival
From: lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:07:20 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Gerald G. Washington (gerald@seas.gwu.edu) wrote:

> The Amiga has marvelous multitasking, 24-bit cards, 33MHz 040's, 16-bit
> audio, etc.  So do 486 systems.

Are you sure that the 486 systems have 33 Mhz 040's :-)

-- 
Jarkko Lindblad         | Those people who tell you not to
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi |   take chances
------------------------| they are all missing on what life is about
This space if for sale  |                        - Metallica
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: breaker@src4src.linet.org (Guy Sisalli)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Games and the C64
Date: 10 Nov 92 04:06:57 GMT
Organization: The Source for Source

In article <BxCxKx.ExA@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> lozinski@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (David Lozinski) writes:
>Archon was the chess style like game for the C64. I don't even think 
>games like Battle Chess I or II for the Amiga come close. One nice thing
>about Archon was the magic and the was no guaranteed winner of a move. I
>beat the Unicorns several times with the pawns that carry the clubs! That's
>one of the few games I boot my C64 up to play with.
>
>I hope the game developers that developed these games are reading this
>group and getting a hint, like how about some really good ports!
>
Archon I and II have already been ported to the Amiga a long time ago. You need
1.2 ROMS and I think no fastram/fat(er) agnus to run it(degrader and a
multistart board with 1.2 should get them running)


-- 
This opinion is mastered to Dolby "B" standards for flame reduction. Decrease
flame responce when reading on non-Dolby equipment.             ///
USENET: breaker@src4src.linet.org                           \\\/// 
-------------------------------------------------------------\XX/-------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad)
Subject: Re: Oh my God!  Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 9 Nov 92 12:33:13 CST

In article <69117@cup.portal.com> Bolt@cup.portal.com (Eric J Rainbolt) writes:
>Dear Fellow Amigan,
>
>Over the weekend, she placed an order for an IBM clone.  Yuck!!!!!
>Aaaaaaaaaargggggg.   Puke!!!!!!!!  Barf City!!!!!!!
>
>She doesn't know much at all about computers, all she know is that
>she feels she should have one because she is in Electrical Engineering.
>
>I truly believe my A500 (designed in 1985 and running at 7.16 Mhz), totally
>blows away IBM pieces of shit running at 33Mhz.
>
>I like Heidi, so I want her to be happy, and I feel it would be best
>if she cancelled her order and instead purchased an Amiga.

I hate to tell you this, but Spice (a program she's going to use a LOT)
running on a 7.16MHz Amiga is BUTT SLOW.  Yes, the IBM version running on 
a 286 or below is SLOW, too, but this is certainly a reason to pick a
33MHz 386 or 486 over an A-500.

This isn't a good reason to pick a PC like that over, say, an A3000 or
A4000, it she's got enough money to throw around. :-)

						---Joel Kolstad
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: What Amiga Users Want In Future Software Applications!!!!
Date: 7 Nov 92 23:46:48 GMT
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario

In article <BxCzpK.Dos@news.udel.edu> don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd)
writes:

>     Companies who have pledged AGA support in the all-important games
>market:
>
>     Psygnosis, Ocean, MicroProse

Interesting. Out of curiosity, where did you hear this?

>...and I've _seen_ DPaint AGA, so I imagine neither is too far off.

So, how's it look? :). Will Brilliance upstage the DPaint legacy?
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Calling all lurkers!
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:21:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: ra.1992Nov9.162148.14768
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science

In article <BxG9wB.338@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> wlrobert@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (william lester roberts) writes:
>I haven't posted before before because I have not been able to figgure
>out how to do it through trn on these VAX systems while calling from
>home.  This is a first attempt.  Last time, the answer ended up as a mail
>message to the sender, which was ok as far as the two of us exchanging
>ideas.  But it did not allow others to see our words of wit, and to get 
>additional feedback.  I hope that this posts correctly.

It did and I for one will welcome a few fresh faces around here.  ("faces" 
may not be the best term to use, but you get the idea)  Anyway, I would
like to encourage others to post their ideas and views to either this or
other newsgroups whenever possible.  As it stands, there are a few posters
who have been around for the last year or so and the same old things are
continually hashed back and forth.  Let's see if we can encourage a few
more to join in and liven things up a bit around here.

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: mjm2789@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.J. Maslow)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 386sx Bridgeboard
Date: 8 Nov 92 19:41:33 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Functionally Illerite
Originator: mjm2789@ultb

In article <1992Nov6.161308.4900@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.071631.5441@desire.wright.edu> fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
>
>>	I would be perfectly happy with a bug free 286 BB.  Too bad one
>>	doesn't exit.  The 386sx BB with CGA is not cost effective because,
>>	for the most part CGA software is obsolete on that class processor.
>>	i.e  Know anyone using Windows with CGA?  The BB is a good idea,
>>	it just hasn't been executed properly and is too expensive.
>
>CGA is undoubtedly quite useless, but with VGA cards going for as low as $30,
>the point is rather moot. For $650 CDN (~$520 U.S.), the bridgeboard is a
>reasonable compromise. What we really need is more third party competition in
>this domain, which would make this option more cost effective. Reportedly,
>GVP is planning a series of 32-bit PC emulators, while Vortex has a 486 SLC
>card available now.
>
I don't know if this has been asked, but in some strange marketing ploy
has Commodore thought about an upgrade package for 286 BB owners to
upgrade to the 386sx BB???  I think that a lot of people with the 286
just sitting there gathering dust inside their computer would be
interested in upgrading if a package existed.  

For anyone who has the new 386sx, how is the performance.  Is it more
reliable than the A2286 BB???  

										Mark Maslow
										R.I.T
From: jmpor@dynam.adsp.sub.org (Jean-Marc Porchet)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC, Redneck President, and other bad news. (was Re: Amiga 1200)
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:17:51 GMT
 <M5mXr*i41@dynam.adsp.sub.org> <1do3llINN61b@mozz.unh.edu>
Reply-To: cbmehq!cbmswi!dynam!jmpor@cbmvax.commodore.com
Organization: Merging Technologies
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00 beta rel2

In article <1do3llINN61b@mozz.unh.edu>, Gregory G Greene writes:

>    I don't understand all the fear about semi-automatic assault rifles to begin with.

Why do you need this kind of weapon, hunting animals ???

  
--

PS : forgive my bad English, I'm still trying to learn it
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jean-Marc "JUMP" Porchet                             Phone : (41) 22-754-1733

EMAIL :   ...{uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmswi!dynam!jmpor
	       or try   mcsun!cbmswi!dynam!jmpor		 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Simple things should be simple & complex things should be possible' Alan Kay
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: hanscs@dhhalden.no (HANS CHRISTIAN SANDER)
Subject: Re: Top 10 reasons why ...
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:41:12 GMT

	As I understand it, the 1200 is shipped with chip-RAM only.  The
>>duel bus architecture doesn't do any good if this is the case.
>
>And the Falcon is rumored to ship with 1M only.  In both cases, most users
>will be adding memory, but the Falcon will benefit much less than the A1200
>does.
>
>Here is some food for thought: the A1200 with Chip-RAM only runs faster 
>than the A3000 does with Chip-RAM only.  Why?  I don't know, but my guess
>is that the old ECS which the A3000 is saddled with is sucking up more CPU
>than the new AGA in the A1200 and a4000.
>
>Skip Sauls
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
>
Here is some food for eating: it may be because the A1200 has 32bit chip ram 
and 4x the bandwidth of an A3000.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leifv@dhhalden.no (LEIF HUGO VARUM)
Subject: Re: Games and the C64...
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 11:40:26 GMT

>And what about Steve Coleman's Pharaoh's Curse...?  Man, I sure miss 
>Synapse....
So do I...but just in case you didn't know; there exists a Pharaoh's Curse 
(PD) for the Amiga and it's a complete clone of the 64 version, same sound, 
same gfx and same exellent gameplay!

I've also heard about an Amiga version of Frantic Freddie for Amiga (also 
just like the 64 version).

BTW: Has anyone mentioned Bruce Lee yet?



        /// Leif Hugo Vaarum, Solbakkvn. 9, 1777  HALDEN  
-------///-----------------------------------------------------------
 \\\  ///  InterNet: leifv@dhhalden.no      :"She broke my heart        
  \\\///   (Good) Amiga coders do it 50     :so I ripped hers out..."
   \///          times per second!          :     -GN'R LIES
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: 22black@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Martin Black)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:23:55 GMT

doctor@k9.UUCP (Paul Broe) writes:


>[stuff edited out.]

>> >an IBM clone.  Case in point, 88 meg removable drive for an Amiga 500
>> >is $900.  For mine, $390.  
>> 
>> 	It seems to me that you were getting majorly ripped off in
>> your Amiga purchases.  My 88MB EXTERNAL SyQuest drive was $450, from,
>> of all places, MacLand. Considering that SCSI is SCSI concerning
>> the Amiga, just where in the world did you see an 88MB removable
>> drive (I've assumed it's the SyQuest, and not the 90MB Bernoulli)
>> *specifically* for the Amiga at $900???
>> 

>Notice that the Amiga 500 is specified above and it seems obvious that a
>SCSI controller was included in the price. It's a shame that the same isn't
>true for the PC price he quoted.

Wo.. That is definitely not all that true, since you will need a scsi 
controller for you clown, since the bearly know what a scsi is and seem to
nearly always sell with an ide.  So you spend $400 for the syqest, another
$200 for the controller.  Of course if you had a comparable amiga, ie with
slots it would cost the same.  But since you saved some money getting the
a500, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't have to spend a little 
more for an upgrade.

Martin


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: Amiga sightings and other things positive.
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:07:59 GMT

In article <petter.08pc@pnilsen.UUCP> cbmehq!cbmnor!pnilsen!petter@cbmvax.commodore.com writes:
>In article <1992Nov8.192504.6710@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>>ask us if we had a Toaster in one of the Amigas.  Last year we didn't 
>>and blew them away, I can't wait to see how it turns out this year with 
>>not only a Toaster, but also an A4000.  :-)
>
>Just make sure you run Scala MM200 on the A4000 with a 256K anim with some 
>sound, laservideo in the (genlocked) background (controlled by Scala). You'll
>take the show home.. ;)

Well, the UPS man just came by and the A4000 isn't here yet.  :-(  Oh well,
if it comes in tomorrow I'll still be able to bring it over for the show,
I was just hoping to have a bit of time to copy some demos, pics, etc. over.
Also, I've heard that some of the A4000s have hard drives formatted with the
OFS (!) and I wanted to reformat it using FFS if it did.

Does Scala come with the A4000?  I have no idea what the A4000 will come with
as no one really seems to be providing much information about it.

I wish not that I'd sprung for the 2nd day air...  :-(

>\\\\\\ E-Mail: petter@pnilsen.adsp.sub.org                      |\
> \\\\\\   or.. cbmehq!cbmnor!pnilsen!petter@cbmvax.commodore.com| \
>  >>>>>>========================================================|  >
> ////// Disclaimer: These opinions are ALL mine !               | /
>////// ->    Save the whales -- collect the whole set !     <-  |/

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate waiting impatiently for his A4000
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Jeffrey Grimmett 9999)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:10:10 GMT
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not necessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.

Quoth das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A):

]> In article <1992Nov11.164428.3353@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com> jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Jeffrey Grimmett 9999) writes:

]> >You also missed a point... while the 486 will have larger HD/ more mem, those
]> >resources are REQUIRED to run OS2 or WindersNT (if it exists) or whatever.
]> 
]> I would expect the HD to comparitively larger than what OS/2 needs.
]> 
]> Dan Stephenson                                                 das9674@usl.edu  

At the expense of what?  Either something comes off the drive now, or something
doesn't go on it at a later date, but either way there's @20 megs that belong
to the OS instead of your data.  You're either going to give up something,
or end up getting another/bigger hard drive sooner than you expected to.

-- 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@************************************************************
Jeff Grimmett [SuperBitMap BBS]          * fido!1:202/1401.0 [619-460-7290]
jeff_grimmett@f1401.n202.z1.fidonet.org  * jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
  My employer doesn't allow me to have opinions -- so don't tell 'em I do!
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy