From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Fingerprinting Gaikokujin
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 03:20:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.232505.6399@news.acns.nwu.edu> andrew@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
(Andrew Sung Hyun Kim) writes:
>In article <1992Nov22.030518.16139@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>Like I said, the rules for citizens and non-citizens are different.
>>I see nothing wrong with that.
>Let say, if the rule was the all non-citizens were to be rounded up
>based upon their ethnicity, and this was the law, it would be ok to you?

No, it wouldn't be.  As I've said before, I oppose ethnic discrimination.
Japanese immigration laws do not discriminate on the basis of ethnicity.
Let's talk specifics.  _No_ Japanese immigration laws round up anyone.
Fingerprinting != rounding up.

However, the Korean gov't does just that; it discriminates on the basis
of ethnicity.  The Korean gov't is r.a.c.i.s.t.

>I guess this means that Japanese who were interened during the WWII
>who were not US citizen was a perfectly correct action by US government.

Again, no.  I condemn the internment of Japanese-Americans.  That
some of them weren't citizens is the result of racist gov't policies that
discriminate on the basis of ethnicity.  In other words, the US gov't
was doing what the Korean gov't is currently doing--discriminating on
the basis of ethnicity.

Those interned Japanese would have been citizens if the American gov't's
policies weren't racist.

Also, the Japanese gov't is not currently interning any Koreans.
Saying that one policy (internment) is bad does not mean that another
policy (difficult rules for obtaining Japanese citizenship) is bad.  These
aren't comparable.

>>The term "humiliation" is subjective.  A permanent resident in the USA
>>could say, "It's damn humiliating that I can't vote."  So what?  He 
>>isn't a citizen; he doesn't get the right to vote.
>Recall the devices the Japanes used to forcibly get the finger-prints?
>The intentions behind such was to inflict humiliation... to say
>'go sit in the back of the bus'.

The use of such devices is reprehensible and should not be tolerated.
It should be condemned.

Instead, the Japanese gov't should have expelled those foreigners,
including Koreans, who break the immigration laws.  Forcing them to
abide by the laws by using devices of that nature is inappropriate.
They should simply be expelled.  I support the expulsion of Koreans
breaking these laws.

Again, comparing 'go sit in the back of the bus' to the Korean situation
is inappropriate.  African-Americans are citizens; Koreans are not.

>>However, I don't see the relevance of "such and such happened to my ancestors,
>>so...".  Koreans demand that because of this historial tidbit, they
>>should then be entitled to all the rights of citizenship even though
>>they don't obtain it.
>I suppose many Japanese who were not US citizen during the WWII was
>that way because they did not want to become US citizen... Djoe
>how were the naturalization law for asians back then in US?
>So, whoes dault was it?

Like I said, the US immigration laws were racist at the time.
Many Japanese were explicitly prevented from obtaining citizenship
while Europeans were able to obtain citizenship.

Currently, the Japanese gov't is not preventing the Koreans from
obtaining citizenship.  My Taiwanese coworker obtained citizenship.
I refuse to concede that Koreans should be allowed to circumvent
current immigration laws to obtain the same rights as Japanese citizens
without obtaining citizenship.  My Taiwanese coworker went through
the same process that the Koreans have to undergo.  So tough.

Japan is not Korea.  The Japanese gov't, unlike the Korean gov't,
does not give favors to Koreans because they are ethnically Korean.
If the Koreans want special treatment, they can go to Korea.
There, they can enjoy the discriminatory laws that favor ethnic
Koreans over Taiwanese, Japanese, Germans, etc.

>>If the Koreans in Japan don't want Japanese citizenship via the same laws
>>under which all other foreigners are subjected and don't like living
>>in Japan, then they can move to Korea.  It is much easier for a Korean
>>from anywhere (Korean-American, Korean-German, Korean-Japanese, etc.)
>>to emigrate to Korea than for a non-Korean (Chinese-American, German,
>>Taiwanese, Irish-American, etc).
>I wonder what Ghandi said about the unjust rules?  
>It is not the equalness under the law I am argueing about.  But,
>the right/wrongness of the rule itself.  I suppose you will be
>blindly willing to abide by all the rules that America is willing to
>make into law.

This is a blind statement without specifics.  So far, the only complaints
that I have heard are (1) The Japanese gov't requires a LONG period of
stay in Japan to obtain permanent residence and later citizenship,
(2) Fingerprinting, and (3) While you are a permanent resident, you may lose
that status if you stay away from Japan for too long a period.

I see absolutely nothng morally wrong about any of these points.

But Martin Luther King might see something wrong with Korean immigration
laws.  They are specifically discriminating on the basis of race.

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