From: cindy@solan10.solan.unit.no (Cynthia Kandolf)
Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Date: 28 Jan 93 00:08:03 GMT
	<1993Jan26.114023.28748@adobe.com>
Organization: /home/ludviga/cindy/.organization

Curtis Jackson writes:
>Well, certainly the "look, everyone wants to live here" bit of
>"logic" is a factor, but there are many more that are probably
>more important. In particular, the issue of individual freedom
>and choice (at least, until the drug war started in earnest).

Oooooh.  Looks like something i will be strongly tempted to answer...
based on my own experience only.... (For those who don't know, i grew
up in the US, and moved to Norway with my husband two years ago, give
or take a few months.)

>Americans look at other countries and see things by which
>Americans are not constrained:
>
>Official state religions

Norway has a State religion, namely Lutheranism.  I don't like this
fact, but i would hardly consider it "constraining".  Just because
it's the state religion doesn't mean you have to be a member, or are
punished for not being.  School children are excused from religion
lessons if they, or their parents, don't want them present.  There is
complete freedom of religion, just like in the States.  (I won't bore
the net to death by mentioning what i don't like about it; anyone who
is interested can use that wonderful invention called e-mail.)

>Mandatory government/military service

I wish the world were such that this was not necessary here.
Unfortunately it is.  We share a border with Russia, who we have no
reason to trust.  We are not far from Germany, and it wasn't all that
long ago we had a certain problem concerning that.  Mandatory service
is the only way to keep the military here large enough to even have a
hope of defending ourselves.  (Until the NATO help supposedly
arrives... and that's a subject for another article too 8-)

>Mandatory separation of college-bound vs. trade-bound students
>in the early/mid teenage years

Here the children have to decide whether they want to follow a
trade-based or an academic-based program when they're 15 or 16.  This
doesn't seem unreasonably early to me.  If they do regret their
choice, they can always start again in the other line... even years
later.  There are people in their 40's at Norwegian high schools.
Incidentally, the kids are still in the same building when possible,
and anyone who completes high school has the same right to higher
education, though the kids in the trade-based courses may have to make
up some math courses and so on.

>Unreasonable (to Americans) search and seizure in the name of
>public safety

Doesn't apply here...

>Legislation without true representation (House of Lords)

This doesn't apply here either.... incidentally, can the House of
Lords actually do anything any more?  

>Add to the above the military might of the country, and you have
>a citizenry who feel they are powerful as a country and powerful
>as individuals. They can own as many guns as they like, they can
>drive an automobile with no instruction after passing the most
>absurdly minimal of tests,

Allowing people to drive without showing any skill is supposed to be
an advantage?  I don't think so.

> they can worship whomever they like
>publicly, and they can stand in front of the White House and call
>the President a horse's ass as long as they're not so loud as to
>be considered disturbing the peace.

You can stand on the steps of our Parliament building and say the
Prime Minister is a horse's ass, too.  The way things have been going
for her lately, the police just might join you.  You can call the King
any name in the book, and the worst that will happen is people may
never speak to you again.  (We have a very popular King.  And if you
insult his dead father, i guarantee no Norwegian will ever speak to
you again.  But that's not the law...it's just the way people are.)

Anyway, i'm not really sure what the point of that list was... but i
answered it anyway... Maybe in the hope of boring this thread to
sleep?

-Cindy Kandolf
 cindy@solan.unit.no
 Trondheim, Norway
Xref: sparky sci.econ:9824 talk.politics.theory:5763 talk.politics.misc:69575 sci.philosophy.tech:4935 sci.philosophy.meta:3146 talk.philosophy.misc:3423