HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tt@wag.caltech.edu (Toshi Takeuchi)
Subject: Re: PRC why?
Followup-To: sci.math
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:53:02 GMT

I know that this is not the proper newsgroup for such conversations
so I set followups-to sci.math, (which I don't read).

dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) writes:

Given the fact that this is really a response to a rather silly
statement, still Ken has said something that puzzles me.

In article <1992Sep8.172106.13527@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>   Pi is a number, which happens to be useful in mathematical
>   calculations.  If the space is not Euclidian, pi happens not to be
>   as useful for calculating the circumference of a circle given its
>   diameter, but it is still useful for other things.

>Such as?  Remember that the prevalence of pi in expressions involving
>transcendental functions is a result of its being the ratio between
>the diameter and the circumference of a circle; i.e., a radian is
>defined the way it is because a circle of unit radius has diameter of
>2 pi.

>If you can find uses for pi in calculations that are not dependent
>upon the fact that it is the ratio between the circumference of a
>circle and its diameter, I would love to hear them.

Well, pi is a unique number in that it is a "universal" number.

The integer system, base 10, is totally arbitrary.  Not only is
the base arbitrary (could use base 2 binary etc...), but you could
define the counting system within base 10 as 2,4,6,8,10,12,14... which
would be a perfectly viable counting system compared with 1,2,3,4,5,6,7...

Pi is universal because it falls out of physical, universal relationships
like the circle and its diameter.

Another such number is is e=2.71818...  This falls out of exponential
decay, which is ubiquitous.

Anyhow, there is a branch of mathematics that are based upon universal
numbers such as pi and e.  I believe they use pi and e to come up
with some universal number system, among other things...

You'll probably have to go to sci.math to get more info...

>					Dave Barton
>					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com


Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 08:14:54 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4253 alt.consciousness:447 alt.dreams:3035 alt.drugs:15446 alt.mindcontrol:114 alt.psychoactives:1157
From: pbreton@cs.umb.edu (Peter Breton)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.consciousness,alt.dreams,alt.drugs,alt.mindcontrol,alt.psychoactives
Subject: chrysalis by Peter Reich
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:49:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston, Dept of Math and CS




  Hi folks, 
 
  In the new "Tools for Exploration" catalog (4460 Redwood Highway Suite
2, San Rafael CA 94903; says the catalog costs $5, but I think they'd send
one for free or a buck at worst.), on page 33 there's a book by one "Peter 
Reich" (yes, I think it's THAT Peter Reich) called Chrysalis: Build Your
Own Float Tank. What's neat about it is that it lists suppliers and even
order forms. The cost of the tank (building, not maintenance) is about 
$550 plus $200 for Epsom salts. The bad news is that the book (if it IS a
book, instead of just a bound pamphlet; the description really doesn't
say) costs $40! Anybody have it, seen it, heard of it? Hope it's not just
a rewrite of the appendices of "The Deep Self" (John C. Lilly).
  Also curious if anyone's built any orgone boxes, Hieronymous devices, 
or anything else besides the typical light-and-sound fare. AND, what's 
the dirt on the various PC mind machines? Is there hardware out there that
does this kind of thing already? Let's get a little discussion going...

  Peter
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4277 alt.alien.visitors:6510
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Date: Wed,  9 Sep 92 09:25:44 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Subject: My Friend Len.
Len and I decided to meet over at a church building at 800 P.M on friday. We 
both arrived on time and started our conversation in a small room. After 
talking for a while Len put something heavy and metalic into the palm of my 
hand and asked me to let him know what impression I got from it. I continued 
to talk while holding it and finallly told him that I didn't get much of a 
reaction from it at all. He then told me that he had once given the piece of 
metal to a leader of a UFO club down in southern Calif. who was saying that 
he had been contacted physically by the people in the flying saucers when in 
actuality he had only had an astral (spiritual) experience with them. When 
the peice of metal was given to the person it got hot and  nearly knocked 
him over. Len then asked the person if he got the message and he said that 
he did.
  It seems that this metal was once left behind after a UFO or identified 
flying object IFO landing. Some people took the metal and melted it down, I 
think, into an easily carried form. 
  After talking for a while we found that Len had been directed along the same 
path (sometimes called The Path) that I had come over. He knew all of the 
people that I had been acquainted with like John Hopkin, Nola Van Valer and 
a great many more. Len then told me that he was in the Vehicle Work. He was 
a person who took people for field trips in his car and put them in touch 
with the people in the flying saucers. My responce to that was, "Let's go". 
I then suggested that we go up on Mission Peak because there was a lot of 
IFO activity up there. He then said that he didn't think we should go up 
there because we would have an accident if we tried to go up there that 
weekend. Len then said that many times he gets mental messages to tell 
someone a certain bit of information and the results are very interesting. 
End Part 2 John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: paulr@bts.com (Paul Raulerson)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Organization: Bux Technical Services -- Doylestown, PA
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 15:33:25 GMT

In article <3tmn!h#@lynx.unm.edu> cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.163159.24744@ryn.mro4.dec.com> randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes:
>>
>>In article <65161@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes...
>>>They will then streak through the air in straight line (not in a curved line
>>>like a shooting star).
>>>John Winston.
>>
>>Uh, sorry, but shooting stars do not curve. You are watching meteors. Yes, 
>>I've seen many dozens of them over the years while watching meteor showers.
>>-Tom R.   randolph@est.enet.dec.com
>
>Maybe you should get your eyes checked and get a clue while you're at it.
>Anything in the earth's atmosphere and unpowered (this includes meteors or
>shooting stars) is obviously under the influence of the earth's gravity and 
>definitely isn't going to travel in a straight line.
>
>Ithlial
>
>


A bit testy aren't we?  <grin> Umm- just for the record, powered craft traveling
at a level altitude aren't traveling in a straight line either; they maintain
a parallel attitude with the earth's surface, which is of course, curved. 


On the other hand, every meteor *I* have ever seen has been on a descending
path, and has appeared to cut a "straight" line trajectory, albeit, with a
pronounced downward tilt. 

Given all that, just what are you three guys saying?  That these proposed
flying saucers will fly in a path that resembles a powered aircraft (i.e.
paralled to the surface)? If so, how do you know they *aren't* aircraft? 
They sky's are pretty crowded with ac these days ya know. 

-Paul



Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4252 alt.alien.visitors:6471 sci.skeptic:16069
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 92 06:33:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <65409@cup.portal.com>

Subject: The Ostrich People. Part 4
  The exlorers admired the way the natives used their forked feet. they even witnessed the birth of a two-toed baby. In the past, the few researchers who had observed the ostrich people believed that their strange feet were the result of a genetic mutation, since we had  to accept this explanation but then something amazing happened.
  It was during the night of a full moon that Dr.C.'s team was wakened by the natives, who were naked and had painted their entire bodies glowing silver.  The awestruck explorers followed the tribe into the dark jungle. After several hours, they came upon a large, shining silver dome.
  It was badly smashed and covered with vegetation. The tribe began dancing wildly around it and singing songs to their ancestors from the sky.
  The dome was like nothing of this earth. The incredible ceremony continued until the first light of dawn. Then the weary ostrich people led the explorers back to their village.
  On the way, an elder told Dr.C. that about 200 years ago, the large spinning sun had fallen from the sky, bringing the tribe's ancestors to the remote jungle area. That was all anyone remembered.  
  More will be known when the French team returns to the jungle to study the crashed UFO. This article was written by Francis Shipplett.
The Sun Magazines Editorial Offices are at 5401 N.W. Broken Sound Blvd. Boca Raton, FL. 33487.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth)
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:01:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.173003.6057@tc.fluke.COM> nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng) writes:

>Divine inspiration is what the bible claims of itself.  When the bible 
>claims  that "all scripture is inspired" (theopneustos-literally God breathed) 
>it is claiming *what is written* is true.

Nonsense.  It is claiming that what is written is inspired.  The same claim
was made by Milton of 'Paradise Lost'.  The same claim, using the exact
same greek word, was made of the Iliad of Homer; any Hellene who on this
basis asserted that, say, the 'Catalogue of Ships' was literal truth
would have been laughed out of the agora.

"inspired" doesn't mean "literal": poetry is inspired; drama is inspired -
and so on for the rest of the Nine.  Scripture itself tells you as much:
"for the letter killeth; but the spirit giveth life".
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4229 alt.alien.visitors:6433 sci.skeptic:16003
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 6 Sep 92 10:09:50 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <65336@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:

>  More will be known when the French team returns to the jungle to
> study the crashed UFO.

I can't wait.  Can someone Astral it out there and take some
photgraphs?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
 |__/__/_/     I once decorated my apartment entirely in ten foot salad
 |warren@      forks!!
/ nysernet.org 
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4312 sci.skeptic:16262
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: meteors curve / go straight
Date: 11 Sep 92 03:28:37 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

Oh good grief.

Look, the original claim was that you could tell alien spaceships from meteors
because alien spaceships go in straight lines and meteors don't.

Most meteors (*most*) appear to the naked eye to travel in straight lines. So
just because you see a lot of things going in straight lines doesn't mean they
aren't meteors.

Perhaps some meteors curve visibly; it doesn't matter in the present case,
because the question is whether or not things travelling in straight lines
have to be alien spaceships.

OK?
-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: kalter@unh.edu
Subject: Re: meteors curve / go straight
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:52:24 GMT

His point was, meteors _LOOK_ straightish.
The thing is, they _DO_ look straightish by eyeball.
They do, they really do _LOOK_ straight.
He deserves to be granted that much.
What he was implying was, anyone with doubts can can be pardoned for thinking,
"Hey, at least it looks straight to me, or pretty close."
He is entitled to at least ASK for a demonstration of curvedness.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4310 alt.alien.visitors:6546
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:44:02 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <10SEP199217365645@apsicc.aps.edu>

Jim you are right I should have used another planet that had more 
gravity than the Earth. I stand corrected. 
John Winston.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4216 soc.culture.asian.american:8831 soc.rights.human:3292 soc.culture.korean:4188 soc.culture.asean:5976 soc.culture.british:12193
From: mmaiseh@cs.arizona.edu (Maszeri Maiseh)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.korean,soc.culture.asean,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: CALL OF THE QUR'AN TO THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK
Date: 5 Sep 92 06:18:28 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: usa

In article <SES.92Sep5000228@cmns-sun.think.com>, ses@cmns-sun.think.com (Simon Edward Spero) writes:
> 
> Bloody 'ell! Half savage, half child - all burden!
> 
> In the name of C'thulhu, the least compassionate, the most unmerciful,
> keep this crap out of soc.culture.british
> --
> -----
> Guest account at TMC 	|	Just Another  WAIS Hacker | DOD# 0612

My friend..do you realize that you're writing not only for 
soc.culture.british. It's true that we have freedom to write anything
we want but do we have a something call 'polite'..??!!

I don't want to start flame..but if you want it, can you do it personally..?

thanks my friend...

-mz
From: kalki@lakes.trenton.sc.us (kalki)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: absolute truth       
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 03:48:13 EDT
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

RF>Sigh.  Please take the trouble to read the Milinda Panha before making
RF>guesses about the relationship between Buddhism and the Hellenistic East.

And please take the time to read "Bhagavad-Gita as it is", by A.C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami before making guesses about the Absolute Truth.
---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Kalki's Infoline, 803-643-3172, Aiken, SC, USA
                              
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng)
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:30:03 GMT

In article <892867370DN5.61R@testsys.isis.org> doug@testsys.isis.org (Doug Thompson) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.133701.202586@uctvax.uct.ac.za> 
>fllant01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes: 
>
>> ======================================================================
>> Extract from 'Seal of God' by F.C.Payne (1974):
>> 
>> BIBLE NUMERICS - FIRST ASPECT
>> 
>> The New Testament begins with the genealogy of Christ back to
>> Abraham. It is interesting to note that this genealogy itself is
>> divided into three sets of 14: Abraham to David (14), David to
>> Babylon (14), Babylon to Christ (14). See Matt. 1:17. It has two
>> natural sectiond, verses 1-11 and 12-17. I am but giving some
>> examples from the section 1 to 11, the latter section contains
>> similar phenomena which need not be enumerated. The following now is
>> from the Greek, in whick the N.T. is written. The actual numerics are
>> by Dr. Panin.
>
>Ok - so how do you explain the fact that the other geneologies don't
>agree with Matthew's? Did God get confused? Or did humans write the
>Bible? After all it is called the gospel according to Matthew, not the
>gospel according to God.

Divine inspiration is what the bible claims of itself.  When the bible 
claims  that "all scripture is inspired" (theopneustos-literally God breathed) 
it is claiming *what is written* is true.  The authors were not taking simple
dictation.   They were describing in their own terms.  But what they wrote
was guaranteed to be 'God-breathed".  The human side of it, the style
and written content belongs to the holy spirit driven authors.  The truth
in it belongs to God (biblically claimed to belong to God).

As to the Matthew Luke geneology controversy, we have two different authors
with two different styles who wrote it two different ways.  Luke dealt
with Mary's lineage, because he writes of Joseph as Jesus' paternal father, 
'so it was thought', implying it wasn't true.  Then Luke proceeds 
up Mary's lineage to David.

Matthew sticks with the 'adopted' father and I am certain the point of the 
geneology was to show the descendency from David, which Matthew starts 
off in his book, 'who was the Son of David'.  Although Matthew goes in the 
traditional sense (the father's lineage), HE INCLUDES MARY: "Joseph,
the husband of Mary of whom was born Jesus".  With that Matthew acknowledges
that Joseph was not the father, or else, he would have said the father of Jesus
and would have left out Mary.  But Matthew does start off saying that Jesus
is the son of David, which is important!  Why?  Because in either case, 
it is important to note that Jesus was prophesied to come
from the lineage of David.  And this came true: [Jeremiah 23:5, Isa 9:7]
and the fulfillment taken either from Luke or Matthew!  

>
>=doug
>---
>
>uuisis!skanadm!doug

-Arnold Nordeng
nordenga@tc.fluke.COM
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
From: jhakumak@messi.uku.fi (Juhana Hakum{ki)
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:27:56 GMT
Organization: University of Kuopio, Finland

John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>  Some of the most far out statement by R. was that it may be just a rumor or 
>it may be a fact that there are tunnels big enough to navigate submarine in 
>that start out near the Channel Islands. One of them is said to go all the 
>way to Arizona. Now I'll admit I don't know how that could be possible 
>(maybe part of the tunnel is above the water line).

Far out statement? Naah...
Actually, the tunnel goes ALL THE WAY to Bangor, Maine! The catch is that it
is invisible and practically all the way above ground. It is also said to be
big enough to navigate any man-made vessel so far.
Credible, huh?

-- 
Juhana Hakum{ki, Department of Physiology, University of Kuopio, Finland.
E-mail: jhakumak@messi.uku.fi  *  Disclaimer: Opinions, if any, are mine.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: meteors curve / go straight
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 17:16:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <GERRY.92Sep10110121@onion.cmu.edu> gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:
>The only way that a meteor, entering the Earth atmosphere, can travel
>in a straight line is if if moves radially towards the center of the
>Earth.  With ANY OTHER path, gravity will deflect it motion towards
>the center of the Earth, thereby curving its path.
>
>Whether this curvature is readily apparent is another issue...

And this is exaclty the point. The curvature is small, and the meteors
velocities are great, so for most meteors, no curvature is visible.

For all intents and purposes, it is correct to say that they travel
in a straight line.
 
>--
>Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu)    | It is difficult beyond description to
>Field Robotics Center,          | conceive that space can have no end; but it
>Carnegie Mellon University      | is more difficult to conceive an end.  It
>Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | is difficult beyond the power of man to
>(412) 268-3856                  | conceive an eternal duration of what we
>                                | call time; but it is more impossible to
>The opinions expressed are mine | conceive a time when there shall be no time.
>and do not reflect the official | Thomas Paine
>position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | 
>or any other organization.      | 


Rich

payner@netcom.com


Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
From: jcatesii@nyx.cs.du.edu (James Cates III)
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 02:02:35 GMT


Damnit John,

This is the third time I've seen this message today, you need to
use some common sense or speak to the folks at Portal about
a problem if you only posted this once!


Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: tkirby@nyx.cs.du.edu (Thomas Kirby)
Subject: Re: chrysalis by Peter Reich
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 10:10:07 GMT


 
     Noticed Bill White "debunking" orgone.  His one objection is the
"violent opposition" Wilhelm Reich supposedly gave to any "facts"
"proving" that orgone "doesn't exist".
 
     Have you read the works of Wilhelm Reich, and the follow-up books? 
Everything he has written is very lucid.  I have noticed that some of the
ideas debunkers are fond of misquoting were presented as speculation, and
WR made that very clear!  He made observations that were very easy to
understand, that is the descriptions were easy to understand.  Some of
these observations were impossible to explain by classical physical
theory.  He did repeat his experiments, and he did have other people
observe the same phenomena.  Others have later repeated his experiments,
and achieved similar results with the orgone accumulator, the bion
cultures, and the cloudbusting.
 
     Have you read Wilhelm Reich vs. the USA?  It is written a few years
after WR's death, and explains in great detail how the case the FDA made
against WR was entirely bogus.


Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,talk.religion.misc
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: PRC why?
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
	<1992Sep8.132542.25493@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
	<1992Sep8.172106.13527@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:02:31 GMT

Given the fact that this is really a response to a rather silly
statement, still Ken has said something that puzzles me.

In article <1992Sep8.172106.13527@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

   Pi is a number, which happens to be useful in mathematical
   calculations.  If the space is not Euclidian, pi happens not to be
   as useful for calculating the circumference of a circle given its
   diameter, but it is still useful for other things.

Such as?  Remember that the prevalence of pi in expressions involving
trancendental functions
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage