From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Bowhunting wound rates
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 04:32:26 GMT

black@che.serum.kodak.com (Robert Black (x37236)) writes:

> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:

	Hey, everybody!  Notice how well-condensed this post is?  Thank
you, thank you!  No need to send e-mail, really...  Just keep it down, eh?


>>	That means a complete 180 in .23 seconds, so let's call it 1/4
>>second due to frictional losses in flight.  Huh?  To do this, that
>>deer was ready to bolt and had already dropped on his forelegs.  He
>>then would have pushed to one side, pivoted on the rear hooves, and
>>started running.  I find it nearly impossible to believe
>>It's either a missed shot that was
>>turned into a hit by luck, or a deer that rotated and not pivoted about.
>>Doing this in 1/4 second on four legs is damn near impossible given the
>>size of your average deer.  Something is quite possibly not being told.

>Okay, let me quote Benke directly, [...]

>   "While collecting deer in my research, I tied baiting and had an unusual
>   experience - twice.

	Just an FYI, but this is illegal in many, of not most, states.  It
appears that Mr. Benke is either not familiar with hunting regs, which
would cast some doubt on his qualifications as a hunter, or else hasn't
really hunted the deer, just tried to pick them off.  While it's not
relevant to his results per se, it is relevant if he has not practiced
enough to realize the limitations of his weapons or developed the skills
necessary to utilize them well.  In any event, a blow to his credibility.

>  On two occasions spiked buck came in to my shelled
>   corn at a distance of 15 yards.  In both instances I shot while the deer
>   were broadside, with their heads lowered.  Both times the abdomen was my
>   intended target, but that wasn't where I hit them.  At the sound of the
>   shot, these deer turned 180 degrees and were struck in the back leg that
>   had been opposite me. 

	If we assume a rotation, then the only way this could happen is
for a drop-front, push-to-side, plant-and-drop, push-from-rear-to-side,
plant-rear, push-front again, hunch-rear (slice!), push off in new direction.
I hope you can all parse that, but it describes a 3-point turn by an
animal.  In seeing this in other animals, it takes at least 1/3 a second,
gravity being what it is.  Heck, I've shot animals in this movement, and
that includes deer!  Let's see, 1125ft/sec is the speed of sound, that shot
was at 180ft/sec, so that means the sound of the shot was there in 1/6
the time the arrow was, or 1/24 a second, which gives ~1/5 a second to do
the above turn.  Nope, something is still wrong (perhaps my math?).
I don't think he's telling the whole story; either it's beyond 15 yards,
the the guy can't shoot worth a darn.  In the latter case I'm the same,
so I use a gun instead of a bow.  Most hunters do the same.

>   "When an animal jumps the string, it is virtually impossible for anyone
>   to place his shot.  Therefore, all the current talk about knowing the
>   limitations of one's shooting ability and the limitations of his
>   equipment is nonsense.  These limitations are established by animals'
>   ability to hear the release of the arrow and move a minimum of six
>   inches before it reaches them.

	The laws of physics play a large role, and the limitations he
speaks of he evidently knows nothing about as he seems to have missed
by at least a food laterally, never mind the foot of vertical leeway
when on lateral target.  Six inches?  Hah!  I could move six inches
and still get hit, and I'm quite a bit smaller than any pointed buck.

>>Both have inherent weaknesses that
>>only practice will overcome.  As we learned in the Indian wars, arrows
>>are just as deadly as bullets, 

>Did we really learn this?  It seems like many Indians were inordinately
>anxious to convert over to guns when given the opportunity.

	Of course, as accurracy isn't as difficult to achieve.  You'll
note that rifled guns were in large demand compared to smoothbores
as well.  I can take a person and make them a good shot in an hour
with a rifle; nobody can do that with a bow (on average for both).
Read on for the qualifier:

>>but require more skill to place on target
>>at the same range.  I have found that only doing each activity will
>>give proper insight to just how difficult it is to master.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"I see angels on Ariels in leather and>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | chrome, Swooping down from heaven to >
<viking@iastate.edu      | carry me home."   ---    R. Thompson >
<ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee.>