From: farkas@qual.Eng.Sun.COM (Frank Farkas)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Why Mormon temple ceremonies are secret
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:22:56 GMT
Reply-To: farkas@qual.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: qual



Michael I Bushnell wrote in response to Jay Windley's comments:

Michael:

>I just don't believe that
>either true Christianity has been horribly lost for a great period of
>time, or that there has been a secret tradition parallel to the Church
>throughout most of its history.

Jay:

   I don't agree with this assumption, so I don't
   see why the fact that the knowledge is not present in the Catholic
   Church has any detrimental effect on a claim that it was present in
   the early Church.  I argue from a point of view that essential tenets
   of Christianity were lost relatively early in the history of the
   Church.

   Because, as goes the Mormon contention, there was much of Christianity
   which was not passed on after the death of the apostles.

Michael:

>then why would patristic sources be any help to your cause?  They
>would have been as ignorant of such secrets as the Thomas Aquinas or
>Martin Luther.

Jay:

   Obviously, you don't agree with that, and as such expect all
   true Christianity to have been propagated through the Catholic line of
   authority.

Michael:

>No, not at all.  I think, instead, that there is no "big mystery"
>covering the history of the Church.  Things are much as they seem to
>be.  This is an essential premise to understanding history, I hold,
>just as it is essential to trust one's senses to investigate physics. 


You would be correct only if we disregard the possibility of direct revelation
from God. If any thing was lost He could restore it. The LDS church in fact
do claim that things which were lost were in fact restored through the
prophet Joseph Smith, and are and will more be revealed in the future.

If we carefully read the writings of the early Christian church it becomes
apparent that the apostles had no illusion at all that the church would 
prevail. Peter made the following statement right after his ministry started
following the Pentecostal experience.

Acts 3:21
=========
"Whom the heavens must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world
began"

Peter already looked forward to the time when all things would be once again
restored. If nothing would be lost there would be no need for restoration.

Apostle John clearly saw that the saints would be over come and that angelic
ministration will be required to restore the gospel once again to the earth.

Rev 13:7
========
"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to over come them:
and power was given him over all kindreds, and tounges, and nations."

Rev 14:6
========
"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting
gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and
kindred and toungue and people,"

There are other scriptures which also indicate the coming cycle of apostasy
and restoration. This had been the pattern in the past and it was going to
be the patern in the future.

We live in a world where even the "religious" has the tendency to be agnostics
in disguise. They deny the possibility of revelation, therefore, they deny the
power of God, and with it his very existence.

Food for thought.

With brotherly love,

		Frank