HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: susswein@anrchy.cxo.dec.com (Steve Susswein)
Subject: Westwater flow and water temperature?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Colorado Springs, Co
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:53:35 GMT


Can anyone who ran Westwater last weekend tell me what the flow (cfs)
and water temperatue were?

Thanks,

Steve
From: jml@visus.com (Jim Large)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Bridge Jump (was Just missed 1st Gauley...)
Keywords: bridge, jump, bungee, injury, stupidity, etc.
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:16:20 GMT
Distribution: rec.boats.paddle
Organization: Visual Understanding Systems, Pgh PA

In article <BRIANJ.92Sep22154738@bedrock.cs.umd.edu> brianj@bedrock.cs.umd.edu  
(Brian Johnson) writes:
> [...] A bunch of people
> (local primarily) [jump off the old bridge at fayette station] attached
> to one end of an 80' rope!
> 
> -------------------Bridge---------------------
>                    Rope---          ---You
>                           \-------/
> 
> I saw one guy leave slack (see picture) in the rope

A couple of weeks ago, a guy did this sans harness (hanging on to a loop
in the rope with his hands), and dislocated both shoulders.  You are 
subject to some fairly high gees if the rope isn't taut.

I didn't see it happen, I heard it from a ranger.  He also said that
this summer they evacuated a guy who broke his neck jumping.

Last year, I saw a local jump from the bridge without the rope.  He
was unconcious at first, but showed improvement by the time my buddies
had towed him to shore.

I think I'll stay in my boat, thank you.

  -- Jim Large <jml@visus.com>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Grumman Canoe
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:53:45 GMT

In article <1ask74INNk4s@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge) writes:
 
>
>It never was numbered, so I don't think that it was ever used.  I
>went to the local Ohio Department of Natural Resources Office and
>got it registered for numbers and for a watercraft decal.  I couldn't
>find a date on it.  Is there a way to tell the actual age of it?
>The only serial number on it that I could find was 820-G-51-7.
>
According to the Illinois Dept. of Cons., ALL boats (including canoes)
manufactured since 1972 have serial numbers following some rather
specific conventions.  Your Gruman's number (like mine) doesn't follow
these conventions, so I would guess that dates it before 1972.
From: breck@saul.cis.upenn.edu (Breck Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Advice sought on good fiber boat for intermediate paddler
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:54:42 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

After having paddled down the Deerfield, a wonderful river on the Monroe 
bridge section, the general topic of conversation was what kind of decent 
glass/fiber boats are available now?

I prefer racing K-1's, but what else out there can eddy well etc..with a 
bit more volume.  

In the higher volume categories I have been impressed with the
crossfire, but it is plastic and too high volume.  The topic was
inspired by a female paddler who is really looking to replace her dancer,
so a boat with a seat appropriate for women is also a factor.

thanks
From: brucer@gold.gvg.tek.com (Bruce Rayner)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Grumman Canoe
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:15:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: gold.5384
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1aqrdvINNa8n@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge) writes:
>
>I just bought a 17 foot aluminum Grumman Canoe with seats, oars,
>roof racks, etc., for $250.00.  It was the first (boat) canoe
>that I have bought and wondered if I paid too much.  BTW, I 
>bought it from an elderly lady who had it in her garage and it
>didn't even have numbers on the side because she never used it.
>I would think that it is over 20 years old.




Sounds like about the right price for any age aluminum canoe. Aluminum
doesn't rust - no aging problem.  What do you do with the oars??  could
it be you got PADDLES  with your canoe?.  People generally paddle a 
canoe.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com (Matt Weiser)
Subject: Anyone going to Westwater?
Organization: Martin Marietta WIS
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:05:14 GMT

Is there anyone headed for Westwater this weekend?  It seems that it is
going to be popular - I've heard of quite a few groups (ours included)
putting in on Saturday.

Matt Weiser
weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com
From: donwr@hpcvmcdj.cv.hp.com (Don Rodgers)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Building a Canoe?
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:54:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvmcdj.1992Sep29.155425.24667
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

As the subject says I am thinking about building a Canoe.  I would welcome
any advice on this subject.

Wood construction is my primary choice.  Any experiance, recomendations, re-
sources (books,etc.) that have been used would be welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Don Rodgers

donwr@hpcvmcdj.cv.hp.com
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 1 Oct 1992 15:34:03 EDT
From: <KLEBAN@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: ISO Drysuit Information
Distribution: na

I've been using a glass (but not kevlar) "sea" boat for 2 years.  Actually it's
not really a sea kayak, it's a bit shorter & less equipped, but I only do
touring.  Anyway, the main advantage of kevlar is weight.  This makes paddling
easier, and of course the boat is a lot easier to handle--getting it off the
rack, carrying it along a path, etc.  Of course glass & kevlar are stiffer
than plastic and so hold their shape better, making paddling easier for that
reason as well.  One disadvantage is fragility, and the other one is price.
The only other point I can think of is that glass (& kevlar?) is repairable,
plastic only with difficulty if at all (I think it depends on the type).
Hope that's helpful.

Peter Kleban.
From: tkaczuk.apple.com (Rick Donnelly)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Kayak advice wanted...
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:41:54 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Apple


Bob,

I have taken a Solstice out several times. I really like the handling and feel
of the boat. My only negative comment is that if there are any waves at all,
you WILL get wet. The boat seems to enjoy punching through waves rather than
go over same. There are times when I appreciate this in a boat, but when it
is windy and cold, despite the wetsuit and spray jacket, I tend to want to 
stay dry until the end of the day when I practice rolls. Still, it is a very
nice boat and the kevlar version is light enough to manage on your own.

I am not familiar with the Sealution and haven't heard any commentary. My
suggestion is to call Monterey Bay Kayaks and let them know you want to take 
both out for a demo before buying. They were really good about this when I 
purchased and have treated me very well every time I've been there. They also 
have (or used to) a once a month boat demo day where they put a lot of 
different boats on the beach and let you try them out. I don't have a schedule
that indicates when they are doing this in October, but you might give them
a call. 408-373-KELP.

Rick
In article <1992Sep28.170707.14010@news.acns.nwu.edu>, tilden@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Robert Tilden) writes:
> 
> I've been co-paddling a Klepper Arius 2 for several years and want to buy a
> single for those times when I 'vant to be alone'. I was out in Monterey a
> couple of weeks ago, and rented a Sea Lion from Monterey Bay Kayaks. It was
> great! The only problem was a tendency to broach, but I had a following sea
> and wind at the time. At any rate, I've been looking around for 'my' single
> and am trying to decide between the Current Designs Solstice ST and the
> Wilderness Systems Sealution/Sealution SS. I understand that the hull
> design of the Solstice (fishform) makes it behave a bit better in following
> seas than other hull types. I'll take them out for a test ride, of course,
> but I'd be interested in thoughts/advice/experiences from some of you
> experts.
> 
> Bob	tilden@nuhepl.phys.nwu.edu
> 
> 
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: ddennis@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dave Dennis)
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Westwater?
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 21:20:54 GMT

weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com (Matt Weiser) writes:

>Is there anyone headed for Westwater this weekend?  It seems that it is
>going to be popular - I've heard of quite a few groups (ours included)
>putting in on Saturday.

I am not going this weekend ("Frostbite Weekend" on WWater can be a zoo)
We are running on the 17/18th instead.

If you are running in October, remember that you must still have a permit 
to camp anywhere on the section.  This changed as of last year.

hope you called ahead as it will be busy, and I believe all the permits are gone

You can still blow through in a day if you
want without a permit between Oct. 1 and April 30.

Dave Dennis
High Country River Rafters
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: usenet@oracle.us.oracle.com (Oracle News Poster)
Subject: Re: Waveskis, surfskis (also a test post).
Organization: Oracle Corp., Redwood Shores CA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:03:32 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1ae9euINNqh6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cd517@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Douglas J. Narby) writes:
>
>I am interested in finding out similarities/diffs
>between waveskiing (I do it in Florida) and kayaking.  
>Anybody out there tried both?

I kayak (sea and whitewater), and have tried wave-skiing.  I found the waveski
a little hard to adjust to: it is more unstable, and definitely more edgy.  I
had to work harder to hit a wave just right, but when I did the edginess was
an advantage: you can really work the face of the wave.  Of course, my 
experience is pretty limited on a waveski, but it seemed fun after an hour or
so of frustration.  I should add that the waveski I was using was a home-made
one which was a little light on flotation for me (the guy who built it is 
about 15 lbs. lighter than I am, and built it accordingly), so I might have
picked things up better on a "production" model.

The waveski is nice because it is easier to bail-out if you need to.  It's 
easy to roll one, but sometimes in a really powerful wave rolling is not 
that easy - you're getting trashed too badly.  Since most of my kayaking is
done on whiterwater, I still prefer a kayak - it is easier to catch waves, and
I feel like a have more control (but that's largely an experience issue).
For kayak surfing, I'd recommend a low-volume kayak - a slalom boat or a squirt
boat - to be able to get into the wave itself.  My whitewater boat is a 
Crossfire, which surfs easily, but its higher volume and slower speed make it
harder to catch waves, and it's not as easy to work the face of the wave.  A
friend who does a LOT of kayak surfing and wave-skiing uses a Sabre, which is
low volume and edgy.  He is able to get a lot more control by using the edges
and the sharp nose and tail.  Once while surfing in his Sabre, I was puching
through a breaking wave the way I usually do - by accelerating into the wave 
and leaning forward.  The sharp nose dug into the wave face and then was 
pushed down by the breaking crest, and a endered, and then found myself
surfing backwards down the wave.  A little disorienting, but fun!

Another plus for the kayak is that it will catch waves that are too small for 
the waveski.

The moral: have a waveski AND a kayak!  They're both fun.

[Kurt Bittner       ][   "I don't question our existence,                  ]
[kbittner@oracle.com][    I just question our modern needs."  - Pearl Jam  ]
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Westwater?
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:57:15 GMT

You can expect over 100 people there this weekend.  I'm not going
until the 18th.  This weekend is the Great American Beer
Festival in Denver, who would posibly want to boat over
drinking beer?

--Chris

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Westwater?
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:58:02 GMT

You can expect over 100 people there this weekend.  I'm not going
until the 18th.  This weekend is the Great American Beer
Festival in Denver, who would posibly want to boat over
drinking beer?

--Chris

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: shaw+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mary Shaw)
Subject: Re: New River Bridge Sighting (like Dead sighting... ;)
Keywords: bridge day,new river
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:49:35 GMT

I know someone with the engineering firm that designed the bridge.

They picked up a tidy little fee for doing the analysis to be
sure the bridge would hold up when the truck hit the limit on the 
tether (lots of g's, as Jim Large notes).


Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Westwater?
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:56:54 GMT

You can expect over 100 people there this weekend.  I'm not going
until the 18th.  This weekend is the Great American Beer
Festival in Denver, who would posibly want to boat over
drinking beer?

--Chris

From: larryl@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Larry Lund)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:04:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Building a Canoe?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle

Some other books you may find of use:

Canoecraft by Ted Moores and Merilyn Mohr
Camden House Publishing
7 Queen Victoria Road
Camden East, Ontario, Canada K0K 1J0

Building Lapstrake Canoes by Walter J. Simmons
Duck Trap Woodworking
P.O. Box 88(Cannan Rd.)
Lincolnville, Maine 04849

Ultralight Boatbuilding by Thomas J. Hill
International Marine Publishing Co.
21 Elm Street
Camden, Maine 04843

The author and publisher for The Stripper's Guide to Canoe Building is 
Author - David Hazen
Tamal Vista Publications
222 Madrone Ave.
Larkspur, Ca. 94939

If you want something different and light weight for "back packing"
the Woodenboat Store has a kit for an 11'5" Geodesic canoe, weight when complete
is 14 lbs. -- not a typo.
 "included with the kit is just about everything you need to build her:
From: weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com (Matt Weiser)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Westwater?
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:18:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Martin Marietta WIS

In article <1992Oct1.212054.17154@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, ddennis@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dave Dennis) writes:
> 
> weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com (Matt Weiser) writes:
> 
> >Is there anyone headed for Westwater this weekend?  It seems that it is
> >going to be popular - I've heard of quite a few groups (ours included)
> >putting in on Saturday.
> 
> I am not going this weekend ("Frostbite Weekend" on WWater can be a zoo)
> We are running on the 17/18th instead.
> 
> If you are running in October, remember that you must still have a permit 
> to camp anywhere on the section.  This changed as of last year.
> 
> hope you called ahead as it will be busy, and I believe all the permits are gone
> 
> You can still blow through in a day if you
> want without a permit between Oct. 1 and April 30.
> 
> Dave Dennis
> High Country River Rafters
> 

Yep, got a permit and everything.  Too bad we just had 2 people drop out of the
trip.  I can't beleive I can't find anyone to take up their place.  I guess four
hours notice just isn't enough!

Matt Weiser
weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com
From: weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com (Matt Weiser)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Zoo Whitewater (an appearance by Bono?)
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:48:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: den.1992Oct5.184820.17026
Distribution: usa
Organization: Martin Marietta WIS

Dave Dennis said Westwater would be a zoo, but I never really expected this.
There were more kayaks and boats at the put in than I thought could be stuffed
into a launch area.  I reminded me of a mob scene before a U2 concert...

But anyways, the run was fun, I got tossed and had to swim one of the rapids
above skull.  We saw a guy dump two of his kids right above razor rock in 
skull rapid, and one of them went right over the top of skull rock and into
the hole on the back side.  One wash cycle later he was washed out and one
of our kayakers grabbed him.  Pretty scary watching a 12 year old kid go
into a hole and disappear.  He came out OK and will have a story to tell 
his friends.  We grabbed his other kid, and one other guy who was running 
a kataraft by himself and got tossed.  Now if they had just said thanks...

Matt Weiser
weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Westwater?
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:19:57 GMT

Sorry about the 6 postings.  I called our News Admin dude,
and he had just changed something erather, which didn't work,
resulting in the 6 postings.

--Chris
From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Grumman Canoe
Date: 6 Oct 1992 18:00:04 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


I want to thank everyone who responded to my question as to whether
I paid too much for this canoe.

To answer a couple of questions.  Yes, I meant paddles, not oars.

The canoe came with two paddles, a fishing pole, seat cushions with
breathable seat covers, a place to put an electric motor on it,
roof racks, a complete aluminum cookware set that sits in an
aluminum pot with various cooking utensils, wood slats (I guess
a back brace for rowing).

It never was numbered, so I don't think that it was ever used.  I
went to the local Ohio Department of Natural Resources Office and
got it registered for numbers and for a watercraft decal.  I couldn't
find a date on it.  Is there a way to tell the actual age of it?
The only serial number on it that I could find was 820-G-51-7.

Also, is there a P.O. or address to write to Grumman in order to
get accessories like additional aluminum seats, since it only has
two seats and I would like to put one in the middle?

The tag on the front also states that it was made in Marathon, N.Y.,
by the Grumman Aircraft Company.

Thanks again for all the responses.  Hopefully, I'll get out on the
water this weekend.

Best, Dale
From: weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com (Matt Weiser)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Westwater?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:20:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Martin Marietta WIS

In article <schultz.718383225@beagle>, schultz@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Dennis Schultz) writes:
> 
> 	A.) Permit system is a bust.  I don't know who had permits to camp
> Saturday night, but I think I was up and downstream early enough to see
> people if they had camped at Little D.  And NO ONE was camped at either
> upper or lower campground.  Instead there was 3-4 groups camped between
> the miner's cabin and the Little D.  Must have been some self-righteous
> Republican (sorry to be redundant) that thought that one up.
> 	B.) More than 100 people?  Not even close.  There were > 300 cars
> at takeout, and > 200 cars at putin.  Probably > 1000 people on river.
> Since this number approximately halves each weekend, depending on weather,etc.
> figure on 500 next weekend, 250 the next, and so on.
> > 

We got out early and got the permit to camp at lower little d.  Both upper
and lower were occupied by 3 or so.  We screwed around and swam around in
the river for a while, so if you were doing a day trip I doubt if you were
that far up the river that late in the day.  They are only supposed to issue
10 overnite permits -- I wonder if there were more than that who camped.  We
got on the river from lower little d, ran the canyon and were the first group
at the take out (about 2 or so) Sunday.  We were gone by 4, and no other
rafts had come along, only some kayaks doing a day trip.

On another note - did anyone get ticketed by the rangers at miners cabin?
The were sitting there issuing tickets to everyone without life jackets.
Take this into consideration next weekend if anyone is putting in.

Matt Weiser
weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: chadant@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: boat-sitter
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:25:03 GMT

I am a reasonably experienced sailor looking to take care of a boat in the 
South of France from January to May 1994 (dates approximate and flexible).  
My principal reason for posting this request is to find inexpensive 
accomodation during part of my sabbatical year that period, but I would not 
be averse to crewing for part of that period.  Any leads appreciated.

Tony Chadwick
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dwl@watson.ibm.com (David W. Levine)
Subject: Re: Novice boaters
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1992 17:21:12 GMT
Distribution: na
Reply-To: dwl@watson.ibm.com 
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center
Keywords: Stupid Ignorant Beginners Novice

In article <1992Oct01.222935.37712@watson.ibm.com>,
walter@watson.ibm.com (Walter Wilson) writes:
|> >>And if it's a heavy boat, with windage &
|> >>tide working against you, trying to hold position while
|> >>waiting for a bridge can be tricky indeed.
|> 
|> I've never had to wait for a bridge to open. Would one consider
dropping an anchor for a few minutes?
|> (with a small scope) Or is that too "uncool"? Or too impractical?
|> -- 
|> 
|>   Walter G. Wilson  (walter@watson.ibm.com)
|>   The opinions expressed here are my own.
|> 
|>   "My plans for the year all laid out...
|>    Ah... A dream in Springtime "
|>      -- Shodo (Go Seigen)

It depends on what the channel leading up to the bridge looks like. for a lot
of bridges, the channel is narrow and currentswept. If there are several boats
waiting, it gets hard to imagine how they would be able to lie nicely,
further, for a lot of bridges, you don't get a lot of time to get through.

I've generally found that as long as you don't have a brutal crosswind, you
can hold in place in most boats (As long as they have a decent fixed prop,
or powerful enough outboard) Less fun in underpowered boats. We literally
couldn't hold my parents P-26 in place against more than 4 knots of current.
When that occurs, you want to consider carefully when you arrive at a bridge.

David W. Levine --  dwl@watson.ibm.com  -- IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center
                   -- My Opinions, IBM's hardware. -- 
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your
aim" - George Santayana  
Newsgroups: rec.boats