HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bboerner@novell.com (Brendan B. Boerner)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,tx.politics
Subject: Give back control (was Re: Your FICA is unsafe
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:18:10 GMT
Organization: Novell, Inc. --Austin

In article <1992Dec11.011009.16780@oracle.us.oracle.com> kwee@oracle.uucp (Karl Wee) writes:
>When are they going to give individuals back the control over their own
>destiny?  When are they going to stop being big government do-gooders and
>stop spoonfeeding those income earners who aren't even "smart" enought
>to plan their own retirement?????

When folks quit asking for a piece of the pie.  Oink, oink (to mix
metaphors).

Brendan
-- 
Brendan B. Boerner		Phone: 512/346-8380
Internet: bboerner@novell.com	MHS: bboerner@novell
Please use ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ if replying by mail exterior to Novell.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:64479 ca.politics:10376 ba.politics:7758 misc.legal:21384 soc.motss:52599
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics,misc.legal,soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: Gay Child Molesters (Re: Youth Info Needed)
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
	<1992Dec10.160610.19193@udel.edu> <13598@optilink.COM>
	<1992Dec12.210940.4319@panix.com>
	<1992Dec13.001848.830@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>
	<1992Dec13.054954.20818@panix.com>
	<1992Dec13.165937.8310@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:26:05 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Dec13.165937.8310@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Jim.Shirreffs writes:

   | The North American Man/Boy Love Association is a civil rights/
   | political organization.  We support men and boys in CONSENSUAL
   | relationships with one another and help educate society about
   | the true nature of such relationships.
	   .
	   .
	   .
   | NAMBLA does not provide referrals or assistance for people
   | seeking sexual contacts, nor do we engage in activities that
   | violate the law.  We unequivocally condemn all coersive acts,
   | sexual or otherwise.


   I think it is the name of the organization,"North American Man/Boy
   Love Association" that gets you into trouble. As a concervative het
   it certainly -sounds- suspicious to me. If the second paragraph is true 
   (and I have no reason to believe it's not). Then you might want to
   think about changing the name. Thanks for the info.

You might want to know a little more about what gets them into
trouble:  NAMBLA (or some of its members) promotes the removal of
age-of-consent laws.

Roy can correct this if it's not their official position.  Official or
not, it's what gets people upset.
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.current-events.somalia,alt.politics.bush,alt.president.clinton
From: jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp)
Subject: Re: Somalia
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:00:48 GMT

chrisb@seachg.UUCP (Chris Blask) writes:
>I'm as cynical as anyone about the military and political motives of any
>modern government, but I can't believe that those troops fired on a busload
>of civilians because they were bored or because of some UN conspiracy.  We
>all seem to forget that the people standing in boots in Somalia right now
>are just grunts, unlike the priviledged few (like us) all educated and cozy
>behind our desks.

The media people there are grunts in a way, too. CNN's Christian Amanpour
has a great job, eh? "You did such a good job in Bosnia, we're sending you
to Mogadishu... don't forget to get your shots."

>I agree with the pro-military folks who are pissed about the lights, as
>well.  There are locals with weapons (lots), they are shooting them, and
>bullets will mess you up.

I agree... there is something absolutely ridiculous and surreal about someone
with camouflage paint on their face hitting the beach in he full glare of
TV lights. But is this really a big issue? Somebody might get killed?
OK, but somebody did get killed due to a breakdown of the vaunted military's
actions... where is the indignation? There is a frightening tendency of
people to line up behind the military, right or wrong. The press (who have
a job to do as well) are bashed, and infinite tolerance is shown towards
the men-at-arms. I vividly remember when I first heard about the shooting
down of the Iranian airliner. The true blue patriots who told me shrugged
off this incident as tough luck for the passengers... the plane was diving
in an attack pattern after all. Military disinformation like this is par
for the course. Usually only much later (if ever) do the true circumstances
come out in the press.

---
Joe Knapp   jmk@cbvox.att.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,alt.conspiracy
From: garrett@Ingres.COM (REACH OUT AND GREP SOMEONE)
Subject: Re: Death of America
Summary: That being for whom both priest and warrior are as food...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords: Sura 22, 41
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:11:09 GMT

In article <12DEC199213263586@utarlg.uta.edu>, b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Boycott)    writes...
>In article <1992Dec12.180008.20122@news.columbia.edu>, 
>egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) writes... 
>>In article <12DEC199206281152@utarlg.uta.edu> 
>>b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Boycott) writes:
>>>I am the accuser of the prejudiced intellectualists bigots
>>>I am the final answer to the arrogance of the federalist Publius Caesar
>>>I am the `bombast,' the bomb blast, and the resurrection of Christian Anarchy
>> 
>>[...]
>> 
>>Read the _Bhagavad-Gita_ once too many times, eh?
> 
>From Martin Buber's "Beside Me"...
> 
>	Beside me sits melancholy
>	(Thus once the master had seen her).
>	She does not speak to me, she never whispers.
>	Only the hesitant stirring of her breath
>	Carries to me, unto my innermost ear,
>	The lament of the spirit which -- when then? How? --
>	Lost the life of the soul.
> 
All right. You read "Confederacy of Duncess" once too many times then.
> 
-Garrett
From: pnr0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PAUL N. RITTER)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: OQ: I WAS RIGHT!!! YOU ARE CLUELESS!!!!
Date: 19 Dec 92 03:51:09 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <farenebt.724601258@craft.camp.clarkson.edu>, farenebt@craft.camp.cla
rkson.edu (Droopy) writes:
>Mr Ritter still hasnt answered the charges that he is making this up.
>At least two people have said they looked through old posts and couldnt
>find the flames he refered to in his original posting. A request to
>Mr Ritter, put up or shut up.

     Well, I'll put up. Go back, if you can, to my first post that was made
     2-3 days before the election. The second post occured approx. 3-4 weeks
     ago. I don't have them on disc but I have them on hard copy (somewhere in
     this mess) and will try to repost them for you. Now, shut up.


>============================================================================
>BRI FARENELL                           Hate is not a family value.
>FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU       Get involved (or shut up)
>CLARKSON '95
>A pro-life, PC-hating, liberal card-carrying member of the ACLU
>===========================================================================
>"Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse
> to see it tried on him personally."   ---Abraham Lincoln
>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.current-events.somalia
From: harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp)
Subject: Re: Somalia
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:07:32 GMT

gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy) writes:

>James Meritt writes:
>#Out of curiosity, do you think there was a gun mounted on top of the
>#bomb with wheels that took out the barracks in Beruit?

>Does this matter? Or do you just think it is better to kill innocent
>civilians rather than having volenteer soldiers risk being killed? The
>soldiers accepted the risk of being shot. When did the Somalies
>travelling on a bus accept this risk?

Correction: The soldiers volunteered knowing the risks involved, but
also knowing that they'd be able and allowed to defend themselves.

The Somalis didn't necessarily accept the risk, but they were aware of
it.  They've _been_ aware of such risks for two years.  The best
policy is to stay clear of the checkpoints.  Also, though death is
certainly not appropriate punishment for this, if the van was truly
mechanically unstable that's the fault of the owner, not the soldiers.

What would you tell the parents of soldiers who might have been run
over if they hadn't fired?  How were the soldiers supposed to know
that this wasn't a rolling bomb?

The soldiers had already been shot at that day.  They were presented
with a situation where unknowns were refusing to stop at their
roadblock.  Their light was dwindling after a long, hot day of
standing and wearing several pounds of equipment.

I don't think that there are many people who _wouldn't_ have fired on
the van under these conditions.  _I_ would have, and although I would
have regretted the deaths of the people involved I wouldn't be
second-guessing my decision.  Until _you_ are placed in a similar
situation under similar circumstances, _you_ don't have a right to
second-guess them either.
-- 
-----------------Greg-Harp----------------harp@netcom.com------------------
  "I think I've reached that point / Where every word that you write /
  Of every blood dark sea / And every soul black night / And every dream
  you dream me in / And every perfect free from sin / And burning eyes /
  And hearts on fire / Are just the same old song" -- The Cure
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: Gay Child Molesters (Re: Youth Info Needed)
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 09:05:37 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc

As quoted from <1992Dec20.061910.11171@u.washington.edu> by tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith):

> you can live with it."  After all, it's so much easier to make up positions
> for the other side than actually argue rationally...
> 
Ah yes, the child molester lobby is out in force... TWO.

If you want to talk about what some "people" deserve, I'd say that a piano wire
vasectomy is what child molesters deserve.  Actually I can't think of what
your rapist heroes deserve.  I'm sure though, with the help of a few Clive
Barker novels I can come up with something.

It never ceases to amaze me that people will come to the defense of child
molesters.  Of course it really shouldn't.  I've seen people defend the
holocaust and the Katyn wood massacre too, so what's a little child rape
compared to mass murder, huh?  Of course had you been around in '41 you 
probably could have found time in your social calender for a bit of molestation
too.  I'm sure that you'd have been the life of the party in Nanking.  How do
you say, "intergenerational sex" in Japanese...?



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.drugs
From: VEAL@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal)
Subject: Re: Bleeding-Heart Libertarianism (was Legalizing drugs)
Summary: Point/Counterpoint
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:48:59 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.214219.21122@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM (REACH OUT AND GREP SOMEONE) writes:

>In article <1992Dec11.055047.5110@genie.slhs.udel.edu>, starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)       writes...
>>In article <1992Dec11.040347.6036@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM (REACH OUT AND GREP SOMEONE) writes:
>>}I believe that free markets was only one of the topics that fueled
>>}the Revolutions of the late 18th century. I've read the "Rights of Man".
>>}It is almost purely concerned with civil rights.(small, but important point)
>> 
>>Actually, a trivial point.  Liberalism includes property rights under the
>>category of civil rights and liberties.
>> 
>True, but that doesn't concern my point. The "Rights of Man" as well as 
>the "Bill of Rights" both mainly concern themselves with civil liberties
>such as the right of expression, right to trial, ect. Although, property
>rights are included, they are vastly outnumbered. 

       Outnumbered?  What does number have to do with anything?  Property 
rights has been (until socialism and modern liberalism merged) a liberal 
right.  Whether it's one of five or one of ten or one of a thousand neither 
changes nor lessons that.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Veal               University of Tennessee Div. of Cont. Education
                         Information Services Group
PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu  (Mail to VEAL@utkvm1.utk.edu will bounce.)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.current-events.somalia,alt.politics.bush,alt.president.clinton
From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
Subject: Re: No solid proof to support ( was: pounding the "10%" figure into the ground: Nature, 12/3/92
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 19:13:59 GMT

Daniel DuBois writes:
#Well, Clayton has corrected this thread by saying that he did mean for the
#7% to be extrapolated to the entire population, hence, it would be 11.1%.

Gee, and I only told you that twice.

#So the above statements are derived from a faulty interpretation.  Not
#admitting I was wrong in my conclusions however.

"I was wrong, but I'm not admitting it."

--
-Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia
 USPS Mail:     Astronomy Department, Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 USA
 Internet:      gsh7w@virginia.edu  
 UUCP:		...!uunet!virginia!gsh7w
From: stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU (x4604 (Hauskins))
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Gay Child Molesters (Re: Youth Info Needed)
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:29:03 GMT
Organization: Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: orchid.ucsc.edu

In article <BzJ6LH.555@NCoast.ORG> cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton) writes:
>As quoted from <1992Dec18.231739.25570@panix.com> by roy@panix.com (Roy Radow):
>
>> Dear Phil,
>> 
>>     I applaud and join you in support of our Constitutional right 
>> to freedom of speech, press and assemble.
>
>I'm sure you do.  It's a DAMNED shame that loathsome parasites such as you
>benefit from the 1st Amendment, but that's unavoidable.  Still nobody has to
>like or respect YOU.  Very few DO.  You have that in common with Frank Colin
>and the Nazis.
>

Oooo la la!  You do have a way with words, don't you!  Answer sensibly
or don't bother... wasn't you who disliked the term 'strayts', maybe
I will adopt that term and too bad for you if you don't like it.
Becuase people like you are protected by the 1st amendment- and as
you said unavoidable. ;^)

>ANY adult who knowingly has sex with a child should have a head on collision
>with a bullet.  "Consensual" sex with a child is as much bullshit as 
>"consensual rape".  Child molestation is no more beneficial than child
>dismemberment.  There IS no disctinction between your candy coated 
>platitudes and rape.  NONE AT ALL.  Few people are buying the bullshit.  Not
>straight, not gay, NOT AT ALL.
>

I think the same thing about any adult who lust after mature 11-12 year 
old girls.  But of course that is a healthly normal thing right?  At least
I remember you saying that it was.  So where is the line then, maybe
a little lust or leering at some young girls.  Maybe sort of let them
know you are, or not and go home and have yourself a nice sexual fantasy.

And BTW what is knowingly has sex with a child? How would one not know,
unless of course it is one of the sexually mature 11-12 year olds.

I love all of your solutions to things- blow em away, bullet in their
heads, etc. etc.

>>     May you and yours have a joyous holiday season and a happy and 
>> healthy New Year. Peace On Earth, Good Will Toward Men.
>> 
>May a large meteor strike yours.

Again, very nice.  
>

So a happy meteoric christmas to all, and to all an explosive new year.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim Robinson)
Subject: Re: Death of Canada (Was: Death of America) [long]
Reply-To: robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jim Robinson)
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:05:50 GMT

Charles M Kozierok (cmk@athena.mit.edu) wrote:

>i don't know about that. i *do* remember being in ontario and hearing
>the retailers absolutely SCREAM about the extra cost and red tape required
>to have two separate taxes on their sales registers and to administer
>the extra tax.

The provinces can harmonize their PSTs with the GST whenever they want.
Mostly for political reasons they have chosen not to do so.

> i also remember them worried, justifiably,
>about consumers choosing to deal with their spending power
>reduction of 7% (actually 7.5% to be technical) by reducing their
>spending by a like amount. why do i need to read a book on retail price
>composition? hardly seems relevant.

If memory serves, the 7% GST is taking in about $18 billion per year. The
13% (or thereabouts) *hidden* MST used to take in somewhat less (one or two
billion). Thus, there was no 7% reduction in purchasing power. I believe
that line or reasoning was merely a propaganda ploy exploited by the
Liberals and the NDP. IMHO, replacing the MST with the GST was a necessary
tax update which reflects that changing nature of the post-industrial
economy. It is also a more "honest" tax in that, unlike the old MST, it is
not (usually) hidden in the price of the good or service.

That is not to say that Canada is being run in a fiscally responsible
manner (although is was worse in the last years of Trudeau's government).
However, the GST is probably one of the fiscally sane, although immensely
unpopular, things that the PCs did. If you want the goodies, you have to
pay for them, and the GST is a better method of paying for them than the
MST was. The question that still needs to be answered is which goodies
Canadians are willing to pay for. That question will remain unanswered as
long as politicians can get away with chronic deficit financing on a
massive scale.


-- 
Jim Robinson
robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com
{ubc-cs!van-bc,uunet}!mdivax1!robinson

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.sex
From: thayne@unislc.uucp (Thayne Forbes)
Subject: Re: pounding the "10%" figure into the ground: Nature, 12/3/92
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: HomeVax
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:02:21 GMT

Douglas Meier (dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec17.004605.17873@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
: >In article <1992Dec17.000759.26234@news.acns.nwu.edu>, dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Douglas Meier) writes:
: 
: You are useless to all meaningful discussion and an unfortunate barometer of
: so called *liberal thought* today.  Rather than trying to debate me, you
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: insist on calling me names.  Does this idiotic game you play improve your
: position or give you the higher intellectual ground?  Not a chance.  It just
: shows your immaturity and insecurity.
: 
: Come back after you've grown up.
: 

I'm sorry, I must have dozed off.  Which part of the above was debate, and
not idiotic name calling?  I think I must be confused, I can't tell the
difference.
-- 
Thayne Forbes
thayne@unislc.slc.unisys.com
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:63995 soc.culture.usa:9151 talk.bizarre:41383 alt.peeves:18275 alt.flame:16412
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa,talk.bizarre,alt.peeves,alt.flame
Subject: Re: ***(NEW EDITION) JAPANYES;VERY POPULAR PAPER ON JAPANESE BUSINESS STRATEGY (1of2)
Date: 12 Dec 1992 23:20:41 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: stealth.intel.com

In article <1992Dec12.164324.6672@spock.UUCP> bane@spock.uucp (Cameron Huang) writes:
>In article <1992Dec6.100728.12784@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes:
>>
>>What is this doing in talk.bizarre??
>>
>What is THIS doing on alt.peeves?

Take it to sci.aquaria.

				--Blair
				  "Bloody rhetoricists."
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Model United Nations Conference In Europe
From: chao6@husc11.harvard.edu (James Chao)
Date: 19 Dec 92 14:57:09 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

To all those interested in international relations, politics, and the
United Nations: 

Harvard World Model United Nations (WorldMUN) is an international
conference that brings together university students and young
professionals from around the globe to siimulate the workings of the
United Nations.  The second annual WorldMUN conference will be held from
March 28, 1993, through March 31, 1993, at the Hotel Diplomat in Prague,
Czechoslovakia.  

Ten committees, representing the General Assembly, Economic and Social
Council, and Specialized Agencies of the United Nations, will discuss
issues from the actual UN agenda.  In addition to the formal debate of
resolutions, committee sessions will be augmented by presentations from
politicians, businessmen, scholars, and activists who have helped shape
the dramatic world events of recent years.

In this era of momentous political change, WorldMUN seeks to assess the
role of the United Nations in a new world order.  WorldMUN marks the first
truly international simulated United Nations where participants play the
roles of their own nation's ambassadors.  WorldMUN strives to teach
tomorrow's leaders about the United Nations and its methods of conflict
resolution.  It aims to foster skills in negotiation and debate, in order
that delegates may formulate resolutions on topics currently discussed in
the real United Nations.  These resolutions will be sent to the actual
United Nations committees.

WorldMUN 1993 will take place at the Hotel Diplomat in Prague,
Czechoslovakia.  The Hotel Diplomat is Prague's most modern conference
center.  Prague is both one of the most beautiful metropoles of Europe and
an ideal location for debating current world politics and the changing
role of the United Nations.

The Hotel diplomat is a luxury resort that offers restaurants, shops, a
night club, and fitness and spa equipment.  Delegates will stay at the
Hotel Diplomat for the reduced rate of 130DM/day double occupancy, which
includes two meals a day.

Delegate registration is $US60 per delegate.  For more information, please
reply to this e-mail address or write/fax:
Joshua A. Salomon, Secretary-General
Harvard World Model United Nations 1993
Suite 23, 1430 Massachusetts Avenue
Cambridge, MA 02138-3810
UNITED STATES

Telephone:  001-617-493-6995
Fax:  001-617-493-6995

James Chao
chao6@husc.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy