HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Subject: Katanas and other Blades 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 14:30:19 +0000


In article <RCOULTER.92Oct3175534@stud.frc.ri.cmu.edu> rc2d@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu writes:

>
>
>I am looking for a book or series of books on the *manufacture* of
>traditional Japanese blades. I am interested in the katana as well
>as its less-famous cousins... I am interested in both modern
>and older manufacturing techniques (I don't even know if there is a
>difference - I would guess that there is.) as I would like to become
>more proficient at judging quality in anticipation of purchasing a blade.
>
>
>Thanks,
>R.
>
A good background book is The Arts of the Japanese Sword by B.W.
Robinson it was first published in 1961 by Faber and Faber with
reprints in 1978 and 1981.

If you can read French there is a very good series of books on
Japanese Swords  Cannes Azur - 22 Av. Jean-de Noailles - 06400
Cannes.  These were produced for the Federation Europeenne d'IAIDO.
As I don't read French I don't have any copies and have no titles
to hand, but they were highly recommended to me some years ago.

Nigel


P.S. If you really want to look at the subject in depth, there
are some papers on the metallurgy of the Japanese sword which
were published by the American Institute of Metallurgy.  I
recall reading these about twenty five years ago, and they were
fairly heavy going.  I am sure if you contact the Institute
they could tell you where to find them.


>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Cleaning Rust (was Re: Chinese swords and Burt Richardson)
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:50:46 GMT

In article <1bffdvINNjia@agate.berkeley.edu> robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.213824.3104@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>>	Rust: if you maintain the blade properly, this is not likely to happen.
>>	If it does in any event and the rust is superficial, water, detergent,
>>	and #6/0 (super extra fine) steel wool will probably do the trick.
>[...]
>>	The best way to remove it is to have an unsewn muslin
>>	buff mounted on an electric motor and charged with rouge (a very fine
>>	iron oxide polishing compound).
>
>Ick.

	Ick?  Well of course if we're talking about a *valuable* blade I 
	would not suggest this, so I must apologize for not having made 
	this plainly clear.  But for an OK blade, a good job can be done
	when care is exercised.
>
>I have had great success removing rust and oxidation from my sword with 
>alternating applications of WD-40 and mag wheel polish.  Just rub in the 
>WD-40 gently with a soft cloth, wipe, rub on the polish gently, wipe clean,
>repeat as necessary.

	Never tried the mag polish.  However, detergent and water are the best
	things for cleaning a blade that is damaged with red iron oxide.
	Naturally one must take care not to allow moisture to remain on the
	steel, or else why bother in the first place?	
>
>No abrasives involved, and it cleans out even deep oxidation.

	Light abrasives are not a problem if they are used properly. Mag
	polish & WD-40 will not fix problems of pitting (deep oxidation).
	Metal is missing in such cases and the bes thing you can do is to
	remove the existing rust and protect the remaining metal.

	BTW, there are processes that exist for reversing rust, but I do not
	know how good they are or how costly.

	Pits can really only be dealt with in three ways:

		1. Grind them away (usually not desireable)

		2. Fill them. (e.g. electrolytically over a mask.)

		3. Live with them.

	-Andy V.
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: So happy (Dragons and such)
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:56:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: sei.1992Oct13.195633.1246
Organization: Software Engineering Institute


God am I proud of you all!  Thank you thank you!  ...all this black dragon,
white dragon shit... sheeeeeeeez.  I didn't even have to trash this post all
by myself.

Anyway, the way I heard it from one teacher is that Boddhidarma came to China
teaching only his yogic gestures designed to promote health (no way to verify
this, but it rings much truer than the notion of an Indian martial arts master
traveling to China).  As I understood it, it was the Chinese monks who turned
his gestures into fighting forms--this I find very believable.

The Black D vs White D discussion sounds enormously like the palaver that my
first kung fu teacher used to tell.  I have asked several Chinese people if
they have *ever* heard of white D kung fu--nobody has.  It might just be an
American phenomenon, created by ripoff artists.  Sounds like a good story to
put right next to your chrome-plated wakazashi to me.

Anyway, as I have heard (again and again) from various informed sources, open
hand didn't come to Japan until the 30's via Gichin Funakoshi.  So no one need
even mention the long tradition of open hand in Japan to me--I do like their
swords though.

Hey, here's a tough one: as prejudiced as I am towards Chinese MA, I must say
that I have never seen a Chinese sword of equivalent beauty or as
technologically advanced as the Japanese swords.  Does anyone know of one?  I
have seen one good quality Chinese sword about 100 years old, but it still was
not comparable to the Japanese sword.
From: Randy_A_Winney@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Under Siege
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 11:22:23 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <1992Oct12.214459.3365@cbfsb.cb.att.com>

In article <BvzA0x.4r8@news.iastate.edu> twh73@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>Has anyone seen Seagal's new movie Under Siege?  IMHO t is the best one 
>he has done.  He doesn't end up taking out everyone by himself, someone else
>actually does some killing.  It seemed like they tried to lighten up his
>character a little bit.
>
>
>stiletto

I thought it was one of his best movies yet. I would have enjoyed it
even more if it had contained lots more aikido (as well as shots of
the Playmate's breasts). Tommy Lee Jones & Gary Busey make great villians...

winney@dal.mobil.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: icsg0123@cs.montana.edu (Paul)
Subject: Tai Chi Chuan Workshop-Bozeman, Montana
Organization: Montana State University, Dept. of Computer Science, Bozeman MT 59717
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 04:14:04 GMT

There will be a Tai Chi Chuan workshop (Oct.30 thru Nov. 1) in Bozeman, Montana
with Master George Lin Hu.  The workshop will cover martial and health 
applications of Tai Chi with some Chi Kung exercises and Kung Fu techniques
included as well.  Practice will be designed to meet the needs of beginning as 
well as advanced students.  The workshop will take place on the main floor
of Romney Gym at Montana State University.  Session times and costs are:


                                Pre registered         at the door
Oct. 30 - Nov. 1                      $55                  $70
Fri. Oct. 30 7-9 pm                   $10                  $15
Sat. Oct. 31  9-12 1:30-5             $35                  $45
Sun. Nov 1  9-1:30                    $25                  $35

---> About Master Hu <---

Born in mainland China in 1942, Master Hu moved to Taipei, Taiwan in the late
1940's where, at age eleven, he began studying Shaolin Temple Boxing and 
Tai Chi Chuan.  Master Hu is also an accomplished practitioner of Shuai
Chiao, Chin Na, Nei Kung, Yoga and therapeutic massage.  Master Hu is a
member of the select Chinese Tai Chi Chuan Association and has served on the
association's Research and Teaching committees.  In addition to his martial 
arts distinctions, Master Hu holds graduate degrees in Geology and Mineralogy
from both the University of Chicago and the National Taiwan University.


For more information contact....
(days) Wayne Gorski  (406) 994-6323
(evenings) Dan Loranz  (406) 587-7539

Pre registration must be received by Oct. 14

Mail to: Wayne Gorski, Dept. of Health and Human Development, 
         Montana State University, Bozeman, MT  59717

Please include:

Name_______________________            Amnt. Paid___________________

Address_____________________________________________________________

Make checks payable to Tai Chi/Kung Fu Club

ASMSU nor the Tai Chi/Kung Fu Club are responsible for any injury the
participant may incure during this workshop.

Signature___________________________________________ Date_____________
-- 
|   Paul Arnot      icsg0123@caesar   |
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Nike Style Tai Chi?
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:17:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: master.1b1u0bINN1bo
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.rose-hulman.edu

poore@ds13.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) says:
In article <1992Oct7.054534.20638@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>In article jwalters@stsci.edu writes:
>>In article schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
>>> 	Dave, you're just so knave.
>>Uh, I think you meant naive.
>Nah, he's just being rediculous.  [What *is* that tapping sound.]

So, Stephen, how's the fishing these days? 

	man, you people are all watered down...

	-mukund
From: marcogan@student.anu.edu.au (Mark Cogan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Mystic names (was Re: Cost Differences???)
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Date: 12 Oct 1992 04:31:09 GMT
Organization: as little as possible :-)
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.102.25

In article <BvtqL9.8M4@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
(The One Your Mother Warned You About!) wrote:
> 

> >Knowing this makes "sensei" have many more connotations of respect and
> >wisdon than does "teacher".
>  Interesting point. and a good one at that. But might I
> ask, whether or not the word "teacher", had other meanings
> connotations in Ancient times. What I mean is these words
> came from some where , such as western name, had meaning 
> too originally, like Asian names, but has since lost it,
> or is largely forgotten.  Sorry to be so off the wall, but
> in my opinion. Teachers should get respect, be they call
> sensei, sifu or teachers.

'sensei' can be used as a generic term of respect for someone for whome the
'-san' or '-sama' affixes are not quite appropriate. For example, there is
a hierarchy of  honorific attached to the names of prminent comic book
(manga) writers and atrist, which includes [name]-san, [name]-sama,
[name]-sensei, all the way up to the grand title of 'manga no kami-sama'
('The God of Comics')

-Mark.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay)
Subject: MA School software
Summary: Looking for shareware MA school software
Keywords: software, shareware
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 03:17:18 GMT

Is there any shareware MA school software available out there? If so
where does one find it?


===============================================================================
  Ta Ta For Now      | Beware of the demon Wizzy Wig, the father of 
        Tim          | typographic lies... 
===============================================================================
From: naam@cecer.army.mil (Ramez Naam)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Karate style in 'Karate Kid' movie trilogy?
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:30:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: lorax.naam.719170223
Organization: US Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Labs

In <1992Oct12.173013.2298@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:

>The "crane" technique which Miyagi performs while "Chubs" Larusso is busy
>drowning is from a fairly rare Okinawan kata (of Chinese origin), named
>"Hakutsuru". Only a couple of extant Okinawan styles practice this particular
>kata.

FYI: A new style called "Hakatsuru Kai", decended from Goju, Shotokan, and
Aikijitsu has recently appeared in the states.
From: exudmsun@exu.ericsson.se (New Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: (WFH) Kung Fu TV series
Summary: yeh, I knew that,...right
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:55:48 GMT
Reply-To: exudmsun@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              The opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 24299@eng.umd.edu, doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes:
->	there was no problem with once upon a time in china 1 & 2 (story of
->Wah Fei Hung - who, incidently, is about 80+ years old, and still alive!  ..
		                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Grand, Grand, Grand Master Wong still alive at around 130 yrs??? WOW!

Hehehehehehe!

Doug-ei, what happend here?

/New Dave
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst")
Subject: ISO: Vegetarian Martial Artists 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 00:20:57 +0000


In article <JON.92Oct7140712@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu writes:

>
>In article <60978@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not> Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>
>        Are there any other vegetarian martial artists out there?
>
>depends.  do white belts count as meat?
>
>;->
>
>--
>jonathan byrd
>jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
>
I thought they were non-fattening deserts!!!

Nigel




>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dude@losers.hacktic.nl
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Where/how to learn ninjitsu?
Date: 14 Oct 92 06:35:02 GMT
Organisation: black mail inc.

In article  <BvzKB5.IwG@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, Sam Hulick writes:

 S> Are there places in the U.S. that teach ninjitsu? (ninjutsu, how do you spell
 S> it?)  I heard (rumor) that Steve Hayes was the only person in the U.S. who
 S> could legally teach it.  Also, what does ninjitsu consist of?  What do they
 S> teach, exactly?  I assume the training is very vigorous.

 Well actually, there are two other guys who are teaching ninjutsu in the 
 states, but they are with the CIA now. Arf arf, just kidding :-)
 As far as I now, anyone can legally teach NJ. The problem is, that there are
 a lot of people out there who claim to be teaching NJ, while they're teaching
 a bunch of assorted techniques and allow you to wear shuko.
 
 If you really want to learn NJ, your best bet may be to contact a teacher
 who is teaching the togakure ryu system, but even then you can't be sure
 you'll get a 'real' reacher.
 
 And no, the training is not 'very vigorous'. It's just martial arts training,
 and there's nothing magic about it. Training include:
 - junan taiso  body conditioning (lots of tretching, looks a bit like yoga)
 - tai jutsu    unarmed techniques
 - ken jutsu    swords techniques (you will use WOODEN swords, sorry)
 - bo jutsu     staff techniques
 etc etc.
 
 Training (in europe at least) is realistic, but not brutal.
 People don't train in 'ninja-suits', and they do not wear swords, shuriken or
 shuko during the training. You will not learn any 'magic death' touches or
 tricks on how to become invisible. 
 Sorry to disappoint you,

             Theo
 PS: Try reading one of the books of Stephen Hayes, or from Dr. Hatsumi.
     Don't read the ones about 'black messagers of death'. They're not
     worth the paper they are printed on.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk (Aurelio Barranco)
Subject: Re: aiki in all ma
Reply-To: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 20:05:45 +0000


> 
>    That is true, the "smaller" techniques are generally more effective. 
>    However, the larger techniques are better for training aiki.  It is very 
>    difficult for Nage to train for sensitivity when all (s)he does is quick, 
>    short snappy techniques.  Without this sensitivity, countering techniques
>    become a matter of who is stronger and faster.  In fact IMO this is what 
>    differentiates aiki* from jujutsu --
> 

Her her ..... I agree with this ... I just wish I could do it too :)


Aurelio 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Aiki in Osotogari
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:06:52 GMT


nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
>
>An example of this can be seen with the technique Osotogeri, which is
>a classical Judo, Ju Jitsu technique.  I have never come across this
>in an Aikido environment but it is taught in Aiki Ju Jitsu, but with
>a strong Aiki element in the technique.


   Hmm . . I have serious trouble considering Osotogari an aiki* 
   technique, because of the type of strength involved.  In Fred
   Lovret's words, "external" muscular strength is accompanied by
   a feeling of compression, whereas "internal" strength (kokyu 
   chikara) has a feeling of expansion.  This is what I believe
   is meant by "extending one's Ki" in Aikido.  However I can see
   no way to "extend" in any meaningful way with an Osotogari.  
   Further, I would argue that one would need both feet on the 
   ground (or kneeling) in order to "extend/expand" in the first 
   place (which implies that most forms of wrestling cannot easily
   use this particular form of strength, whereas kneeling (suwariwaza)
   techniques can) --

    -- Ted --


   p.s. Incidentally, Kondo Sensei once said that Sokaku Takeda taught
        Daito-ryu Jujutsu and Aikijujutsu separately, "in Jujutsu one
        initiates the attack, in Aikijujutsu one induces the attack" --

==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
From: CA.FER@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jennifer Gates)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?)
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:13:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA

Thoric writes:
<snip>
>Now try to consider a societal attitude in which the Martial Arts
>become blamed for serious injuries and death from non-firearm
>related incidents.. consider repercussions in which people begin
>to cry out for the banning of the teaching and practice of Martial Arts
>for the 'good' of society (after all, if you're a 'good' person, why
>do you want to learn things which are primarily meant to hurt people ?)
>Those of us who practice MA for reasons other than just 'hurting people'
>would probably get very defensive as increasing numbers of laws
>restrict what we 'decent' people can do..  "Kyokushinkai ?  BAN it, it's
>obviously primarily meant just
>for killing"  "Tai Chi ?  oh yeah, that's the gentleman's MA..  but
>get a permit first :-)"  I know such a scenario is hard to imagine)...
<snip>

This happened in Japan immidiately following WWII. Martial arts were
banned by the US occupational forces. Then specific MAs were
'allowed' to be practiced one by one. I have spoken to several
Japanese (who aren't Martial Artists) who feel that the MAs were
the cause of the Japanese agression in WWII......

Fer
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: So happy (Dragons and such)
Date: 16 Oct 1992 00:24:09 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct15.175348.3896@srg.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
>	I guess "pai's forest" is less pompous than "Grand Ultimate Fist".

Hey, buddy, back off.

That's "Boxing according to the Ultimate Harmony of Yin and Yang" to you.

And don't you forget it!


Oh, yeah.  :-) for the smiley impaired.

-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Xref: sparky rec.martial-arts:13039 rec.arts.tv:19401
From: Randy_A_Winney@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Kung Fu TV series
Date: Wed,  7 Oct 92 06:43:10 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <8261@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>




>>I read in the L.A. Times TV guide that Kung Fu will start in January.

Why would anyone interested in martial arts want to watch that piece of
crap? I remember reading an interview with David Carradine in which he
said he had never had any real martial arts training and was high on
LSD most of the time they were shooting that series...

winney@dal.mobil.com
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Lethal Weapon II
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:29:36 GMT
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

To follow up on a thread that was debated here long ago...

Rene Russo said in a interview the other night that she did all
her own fight seens in the movie.  She also said that this was
one of the hardest movies she has ever been in in terms of pre-training.

-Garth 



			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: ma movies and books
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 18:02:57 GMT
Organization: hah!  we don't need no steenkin' organization!
Summary: 	-=-=-< humor >-=-=-
Followup-To:  mtambay@mtroyal.ab.ca
Keywords: 	-=-=-< unbelievable!!! >-=-=-
Cc: mtambay@mtroyal.ab.ca

In article <1992Oct8.092315.2765@mtroyal.ab.ca> mtambay@mtroyal.ab.ca writes:

>
>One good movie that had what I consider the most realistic MA was Angel Town.

	< snip >

>
>China Obrian I and II are IMHO excellent. Cynthia R. really shows her stuff.
                                ========= ???!!!
>Tiger Claw with Bolo Yueng sp? and Cynthia R. is not bad but it seems the
>producers still don't feel comfy with a strong female lead (good example of
>Tiger Claw Kung Fu??)

	hah!  bwaaahhhhahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaahww!......
	....ahhhahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaww!.... henh henh henh....

>

	< snip >

>
>Rapid Fire, excellent. Showdown in little Tokyo, Brandon Lee makes it worth
>putting up with Dolph Lundgren'excessive narcissim.
>
>Please fogive my indulgence in this long unsolicited post.

	you are forgiven....  i give you a thumbs up for humor value.

>
>Mario Tambay.

	another opinion, worth what you paid for it!
	and, as always, i am/at:

	     doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

	"presidential elections are planned distractions
	 to divert attention from the actions behind the scenes....
	 like a game of chess when the house is a mess, or
	 a petty money squabble when your marriage is in trouble,
	 or a football game when there's rioting in the street!

	 it's just another movie.....  another song and dance.....
	 another poor sucker who never had a chance!
	 it's just another captain goin' down with his ship.....
	 it's just another jerk, taking pride in his work!

				       greetings from timbuck three!