HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ba06103@bingsuns (ba06103)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Greetings, intolerant fascists
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:45:14 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton

In article <4033@crl.LABS.TEK.COM> lynnef@gadget.LABS.TEK.COM (Lynne Fitzsimmons) writes:
>
>About Scouting in countries where Buddhism is one of the country's religions.
>I don't know about Boy Scouts, but there are Girl Guides/Scouts in those
>countries.  The wording of the promise is slightly different for
>Buddhist scouts.  (Source - Trefoil Around The World)
>--
>Lynne Fitzsimmons		lynnef@crl.labs.tek.com
>
>"On the contrary, I have created a subroutine specifically
>for you, a program within a program" - Data



   what is the scout promise in those countries? I would like to know to 
satsify my curiosity
                       -Abel Sussman
From: dwrigley@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Hello from New Zealand
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:47:03 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

This is to say hello from New Zealand.....
(Don't dig for the Atlases guys)

I'm an assistant scout leader for one of the local troops in Hamilton, acting
as scout leader at the moment, but enjoying myself. Am interested in any new
ideas for games etc. as mine are rather limited and all used before.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danny Wrigley		|I always have been the mouth piece of an organisation,
University of Waikato	|I have yet to find that organisation.....
Hamilton		|-------------------------------------------------------
New Zealand		|Fancy quote to be added here....
email:			|
dwrigley@waikato.ac.nz	|
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: lynnef@gadget.LABS.TEK.COM (Lynne Fitzsimmons)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Abandonment of BSA by the PTA
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:20:05 GMT
Organization: Computer Research Laboratory, Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton OR


Re: BSA requiring that the chartering organization perform the background
checks on its adult leaders, and GSUSA (Girl Scouts USA) not having any
such requirement.

1. Girl Scouts USA does their own checking.  I (and every other leader) had to
submit 3 letters of reference, and the troop organizer talked to at least
one of them and to me.

2. Girl Scouts USA does not charter troops.  Some critical mass of girls
collect, a leader is appointed, and the leader finds a meeting place.

--
Lynne Fitzsimmons		lynnef@crl.labs.tek.com

"On the contrary, I have created a subroutine specifically
for you, a program within a program" - Data
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wayne@eng.umd.edu (Wayne C. McCullough)
Subject: Re: A Round-Up of Some Thoughts
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 16:15:34 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: rec

In article <1992Apr8.121043.10692@oz.plymouth.edu> pyr491@oz.plymouth.edu (Scott Bernier) writes:
>     The last I heard (at Scout Leader Training last year), A scout in
>the BSA must be reverant (12th point of the Scout Law).  It does not
>specify how this must be.  Up here in New Hampshire, USA, as long as
>the Scout believes there is some "higher life form" whether that "life
>form" is God, Budda (sorry about any misspellings), unnamed entity, etc,
>this requirement is fulfilled.

I wonder what the responce would be if the "higher life form" I wanted
to believe in are mice and dolfin's?  (See Douglas Adams "The Hitch-hiker's
Guide to the Galaxy")

W
From: hayes@ddemo3.aero.org (Brian Hayes 74-35 x65129)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: B.S.A. Belief in God Requirement
Date: 14 Apr 92 00:36:56 GMT
Followup-To: hayes@hac2arpa
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Company; El Segundo, CA



>>"It isn't what you believe; it is that you know what you believe, and that you
>>live your life accordingly".
>*----
>Thanks for clearing that up!  Uhh, just one thing I don't understand.
>If that's all true, then WHY do the Boy Scouts reject kids who profess
>to be atheists even to the extent that they have to fight in court?

I do not recall the news story, but I would like to write this:  The 
BSA-atheist incident could have been avoided if the people involved 
had been a bit more thoughtful (particularly a bit wiser).  I see
it as a case of stubborn kids and supportive but foolish parents.  It would
have been nice if a scout master or scout executive had explained to them 
that "It isn't what you believe..." But, I guess that didn't happen.  It is 
a shame that some people made a big issue out of something that could have
been pacified.

The bottom line is this:  There are two kids out there who are no longer 
scouts.  They will not experience the trail to the Eagle.

As a footnote: Their parents will not experience the pride and joy of 
watching their kids grow up with Scouting.  I think they unwittingly 
failed as parents in this aspect of theire childrens' lives.  Too bad.

Well, I hope I don't come across as a fool.  Anyways...time to attend to 
the 13th law: A scout is hungry.  (ah yes, hungry for knowledge, wisdom,...)




-- 
<<<<<<<<<< Brian Hayes hayes%bh_ddemo3@hac2arpa (310) 616-5129 >>>>>>>>>>>>
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: It'd Be A Shame
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:26:12 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

whs70@dancer.uucp (24411-sohl) writes:

[...]
>So why does BSA accept financial support from UW?

So why does BSA ask for financial support from UW?

>Because it need not question the merits or intents or reasons
>of any doner.
[...]

So, a Boy Scout does whatever he can get away with?

- Carl





--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: United Way dumps Boy Scouts of america
Date: 12 Apr 92 15:45:53 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss,rec.scouting,alt.atheism
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

Re-reposted from soc.motss.

buckmr@RPI.EDU (Rondel K. Buckmire) writes:

"Copyright 1992 by UPI.
Reposted with permission from the ClariNet Electronic Newspaper newsgroup
clari.group.gays.  For more info on ClariNet, write to info@clarinet.com or
phone 1-800-USE-NETS."


	SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) -- The United Way of the Bay Area carried through
its threat Wednesday, and cut off future general funds to the Boy Scouts
of America because of the group's ban on gay Scouts and troop leaders.
	However, the umbrella fundraising group said it would continue to
allow contributors to earmark funds for the Scouts under its Donor
Choice plan. Last year, the United Way raised more than $57 million, of
which the Boy Scouts received $849,000 in allocations and $326,000 in
Donor Choice funds.
	``The United Way deeply regrets that the six local Boy Scout councils
will no longer participate as funded members of The United Way based on
current limitations imposed by their national charter,'' said Charles
Lynch, the local United Way chairman.
	``The Boy Scouts will, as previously agreed, be allocated general
funds raised during the 1991 campaign for distribution through June,
1993. They will not be eligible for future general fund allocations
until such time as our policies are in alignment,'' Lynch added.
	Blake Lewis, a spokesman at Scout national headquarters in Irving,
Tex., said the local Scouts would look for funding elsewhere.
	``We will go out and obtain the funding necessary to continue a
program for the young people of the Bay Area,'' Lewis said. ``We will do
it in a way that will allow us to operate in a manner we feel is proper.
We currently are looking at several funding strategies.''
	The feud between the two agencies boiled over in January when United
Way warned that the Boy Scout councils of San Francisco, Marin, Alameda,
Contra Costa and San Mateo counties risked losing their funding if they
did not open their membership to all children.
	Despite the fact that individual Scout groups in the San Francisco
area have been critical of the ban, United Way said it could no longer
fund them because of the agency's anti-discrimination bylaws.
	The charity group is not the only agency that has taken aim at the
ban. The San Francisco Unified School District has told local Scout
leaders they can not use the city's schools for afterschool meetings
because of the stand.
---
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. 
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"Sure you can get aids from a mosquito -- if you have unprotected anal sex 
 with  one!"
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: entropy@banzai (Lawrence C Foard)
Subject: Re: It'd Be A Shame
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:26:16 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.133347.23005@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mpb@troy.uucp (27331-bunz) writes:
>Well, it looks like the United Way in San Fransisco has given their
>local Councils the boot.  Is it time to put some pressure on them by
>withholding donations to other United Way Chapters, and giving directly
>to your local council, to see if they can change the San Fransisco Chapter's
>mind?
>
>This on top of the other United Way scandals of late has me giving my
>contribution some thought.

Replace homosexual with left handed and athiest with Jewish and see how your
arguments sound. At one time people actually believed that there was something
wrong with being left handed, why are you unable to see through your own brain
washing, do you truly believe that someone is inferior just because they have
a preference for the same sex? If anything people who have the guts to be
honest in a deranged society are superior, would you have the guts to be
honest if you liked the same sex? If not how does your cowardice and lies
make you a better scout?

If you want to see real honor and bravery go ask some GBL's about there life
stories. Would you have the guts to go on after being kicked out of your
house, beaten up, had friends killed, lost jobs, just because you refused to
live a lie?

My GBL friends have more honor than any scout will ever know.
-- 
                                                               ------  
                                                               \    /
    This space accidentally left blank                          \  /
                                                                 \/
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: bones@u36.uucp (Lance Sibley)
Subject: Re: Back to gays and BSA
Organization: U36 Research
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 22:35:07 GMT

*BEGIN DISCLAIMER*

I was going to reply in depth to this article, but I realised halfway through
that my post was going to have absolutely no application to Scouting. So I
restrained myself to merely commenting on the child-molestation argument.

Now, here's something many of you have probably never seen before; a gay man
asking people to take it to e-mail unless your argument contains Scouting
relevance. It is all too easy for us to take offense and start running off
at the mouth/keyboard. Let us all practice a little restraint and contain
ourselves to the argument over whether gay men can be Scouters, and keep
the "is it genetic, environmental, or learned behaviour" discussion private.
It don't belong here, folks.

*END DISCLAIMER*

In article <1992Apr4.161636.17370@midway.uchicago.edu> shou@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

[in response to the Chrome Jester]

>I don't think that gay men are any more likely to molest children than
>other people.  But I do believe that all men, whether gay or not, are
>often attracted to adolescents (of the opposite or same sex depending
>on their orientation).  Just as heteros may "lose it" over a 16 or
>17 year old girl, a gay person may react similarly to a 16 or 17 year
>old boy.

Certainly. However, one bad apple does not mean the whole tree has to
be chopped down.

If I have never expressed any desire to involve myself sexually with
children in the past, and I am involved in a stable, monogamous relationship
(that should, really, *not* be an issue; there are many single heterosexual
Scouters), why can I not be trusted?

-- 
Lance A. Sibley     "Sybok! This Sybok is a madman!"
Waterloo, Ontario   "Not so, Captain; in fact, he has cured me of my delusion
bones@u36.uucp       that I was Shirley MacLaine in a previous life."
                          - Kirk/Caitlin Dar, "Star Trek V: The Funny Frontier"
From: salerno@ast.dsd.northrop.com (Peter Salerno)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: BSA Webelos camping
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:03:35 GMT
Organization: Northrop Corp - ESD, Rolling Meadows, IL


   I have been a Webelos leader for a few years and each time I took the
den camping (about twice a year), I would request a 1 to 1 ratio but
would accept 5 to 2.  Now at the last rountable we were informed that
without 1-1 Webelos camping would not be allowed.
   - What is the National view of boy - parental unit ratios ?
   - What does your district / council follow ?
   - Will we eliminate those boys who need the experience the most ?


      pete salerno
      eagle 
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: whs70@dancer.uucp (24411-sohl)
Subject: Re: It'd Be A Shame
Reply-To: whs70@dancer.UUCP ()
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 13:48:01 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.222612.11798@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>whs70@dancer.uucp (24411-sohl) writes:
>
>[...]
>So why does BSA ask for financial support from UW?
>
>>Because it need not question the merits or intents or reasons
>>of any doner.
>[...]
>
>So, a Boy Scout does whatever he can get away with?
>
>Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Sorry, but I see no logical progression from a statement that BSA
need not question the merits/intents of any donor to your conlusion
that "a Boy Scout does whatever he can get away with."  Your 
conclusion is predicated on a Scout violating something he has
agreed not to.  I've yet to see such a position supported by any fact.
Specifically, no one has shown that the BSA has accepted UW funding
based on some agreement by BSA with UW to NOT discriminate based
on religion and/or sexual orientation.  In short, the money UW gives
BSA is apparently done so with "no strings attached."

Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!dancer!whs70
201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BSA & United Way funding (was Boy, wouldn't THAT be a shame?)
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:54:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: m.1992Apr14.205413.3285
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

[Here is a wireservice report that was posted to the net with permission. - Carl]

Re-reposted from soc.motss.

buckmr@RPI.EDU (Rondel K. Buckmire) writes:

"Copyright 1992 by UPI.
Reposted with permission from the ClariNet Electronic Newspaper newsgroup
clari.group.gays.  For more info on ClariNet, write to info@clarinet.com or
phone 1-800-USE-NETS."


	SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) -- The United Way of the Bay Area carried through
its threat Wednesday, and cut off future general funds to the Boy Scouts
of America because of the group's ban on gay Scouts and troop leaders.
	However, the umbrella fundraising group said it would continue to
allow contributors to earmark funds for the Scouts under its Donor
Choice plan. Last year, the United Way raised more than $57 million, of
which the Boy Scouts received $849,000 in allocations and $326,000 in
Donor Choice funds.
	``The United Way deeply regrets that the six local Boy Scout councils
will no longer participate as funded members of The United Way based on
current limitations imposed by their national charter,'' said Charles
Lynch, the local United Way chairman.
	``The Boy Scouts will, as previously agreed, be allocated general
funds raised during the 1991 campaign for distribution through June,
1993. They will not be eligible for future general fund allocations
until such time as our policies are in alignment,'' Lynch added.
	Blake Lewis, a spokesman at Scout national headquarters in Irving,
Tex., said the local Scouts would look for funding elsewhere.
	``We will go out and obtain the funding necessary to continue a
program for the young people of the Bay Area,'' Lewis said. ``We will do
it in a way that will allow us to operate in a manner we feel is proper.
We currently are looking at several funding strategies.''
	The feud between the two agencies boiled over in January when United
Way warned that the Boy Scout councils of San Francisco, Marin, Alameda,
Contra Costa and San Mateo counties risked losing their funding if they
did not open their membership to all children.
	Despite the fact that individual Scout groups in the San Francisco
area have been critical of the ban, United Way said it could no longer
fund them because of the agency's anti-discrimination bylaws.
	The charity group is not the only agency that has taken aim at the
ban. The San Francisco Unified School District has told local Scout
leaders they can not use the city's schools for afterschool meetings
because of the stand.
---
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. 
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"Sure you can get aids from a mosquito -- if you have unprotected anal sex 
 with  one!"



--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: phill@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Phill Solomon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Sea Scouts?
Date: 7 Apr 92 07:35:58 GMT
Organization: Computer Power Software

In article <1992Apr2.174211.9704@ohsu.edu> kozowski@ohsu.edu writes:
> In article <1992Apr01.153358.2880@donau.et.tudelft.nl>
> rozema@dutecaj.et.tudelft.nl (Jan Rozema) writes:
>>Hello,
>>Until this year I was leader of a group of sea scouts (I suppose you call them
>>so, in Dutch they are called 'zeeverkenners'). Do these groups exists in 
>>countries like Canada, America, Australia etc? If they do, I'm very interested
>
>>in their program (global description of what they do in a year), what type of 
>>sailing boats they use generally etc.
>>
>
> I'm involved with Sea Scouting (I guess it's actually Sea Exploring now) and

They exist in Australia, but I don't know any details without investigation.

Phill Solomon
Yehudi Rover Crew
3rd Doncaster West Scout Group.

-- 
Phill Solomon.                             ACSnet : phill@bohra.cpg.oz [.au] 
TODAY IR&D                                 UUCP   : uunet!munnari!bohra!phill
CP Software                                FIDONET: 3:633/363 Swinestud 
Computer Power Group - Melbourne Australia Voice  : +61 3 8230222
From: smb@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Steve M. Burinsky)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Vigil Honor in the OA...
Date: 8 Apr 92 05:31:51 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <1992Apr06.164701.22441@eng.umd.edu> dbader@eng.umd.edu (David A. Bader) writes:
> I have been a Vigil Honor chairman in Witauchsoman Lodge #44, Minsi
> Trails Council, and also the advisor..  I have put together my own
> personal guide to the entire process of 'Vigil', but have never been
> able to discuss it with other lodges (my lodge always was the "leader"
> in my section, so conclaves weren't much help...)
>

As a former NE-5A chief, I have to take exception to that!  Don't you think
that's a bit pretentious?  I have been active with Delmont Lodge #43 for
15 years and don't think that I would single out any one of the old or new
NE-5A lodges as the "leader".

Steve Burinsky
NE-5A Chief, 1979-1980
-- 

Steve M. Burinsky
smb@afterlife.ncsc.mil
From: mec@math.ufl.edu (Mike E. Cerrato)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Greetings, intolerant fascists
Date: 3 Apr 92 15:34:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: cantor.MEC.92Apr3103422
	<MEC.92Mar27135820@cantor.math.ufl.edu>
	<1992Apr1.154901.24574@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
Reply-To: sirotto%maple.decnet@pine.circa.ufl.edu
Distribution: rec
Organization: University of Florida Department of Mathematics

In article <1992Apr1.154901.24574@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mpb@troy.uucp (27331-bunz) writes:

   > Regardless of what BSA would do to someone, flag burning is about the
   > stupidest way to protest in the United States that I can think of.
   > Sure, freedom of expression guarentees us the right to do it, but
   > burning the flag is disrespectful to all those who fought and died to
   > guarentee us that right.
   > --
   Not True!

   Flag burning CAN be very respetful.  At our 1990 Camporee our DE discussed
   the importance of the flag, and how a flag should be laid to rest at
   the end of its life.  I don't recall the source of this particular flag
   it might have been a Post Office or Court House, but it had out lived its
   life.  At the end of the camp fire, the flag was folded and placed on the
   fire.  Then everyone turned and went back to their units.

I realize that.  I too have been at flag burning ceremonies.  I just
meant that burning the flag to protest something is disrespectful to
those who died to give us the right to protest.  It DOES attract a lot
of attention, as we've seen, but I can't for the life of me remember
what the guy was protesting . . .
--
           ___  __
|\   |\   |    /  \  Internet:          sirotto%maple.decnet@pine.circa.ufl.edu
| \  | \  |   /      Usenet:     ...!uunet!uflorida!maple.circa.ufl.edu!sirotto
|  \ |  \ |--<       Bitnet:    "sirotto%maple.decnet%pine.circa.ufl.edu"@NERVM
|   \|   \|___\____/                                                           

SirOtto -- Gallant Knight of a rather large, squarish  |     Michael E. Cerrato
  table someplace in the West Panhandle of Florida.    |  University of Florida
From: daveh@compnect.UUCP (Dave Hultberg)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BSA Webelos camping
Summary: BSA policy is 1:1
Date: 11 Apr 92 02:55:03 GMT
Organization: Compnect, Harrisburg, Pa.

In article <870@ast.dsd.northrop.com>, salerno@ast.dsd.northrop.com (Peter Salerno) writes:

> without 1-1 Webelos camping would not be allowed.
>    - What is the National view of boy - parental unit ratios ?
>    - What does your district / council follow ?
>    - Will we eliminate those boys who need the experience the most ?

Unfortunately Pete what you were told ar rountable is correct.  Check
out your Cub Scout Leader book.  Cub Scouts, including Webelos may only
go camping if their parent or guardian goes along.  The only exception
is for council run summer camp programs.  I am about to take my pack's
two Webelos dens to Spring Camporee.  My son's den will have 4 fathers
and 1 mother and the other den will have at least 1 mother along also. 
I won't know the final count until Monday night when we have a joint
meeting with our sister troop.

Dave Hultberg, Cubmaster Pack 196, Keystone Area Council

-- 
Dave Hultberg Snail Mail: 1407 Concord Rd., Mechanicsburg, PA 17055-1955
Packet: KA3UZR @ K3WKK.PA.USA.NA Fidonet: 1:270/101.28 Usenet: daveh@ka3uzr.UUCP
daveh@compnect.UUCP or Dave_Hultberg@p28.f101.n270.z1.fidonet.org