HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Document that! (was Re: Violent antisemitism?)
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:32:11 GMT

Stoer Mechthild FNT writes:

>> There are an awful lot of us who have family
>> that survived but lost other family members to Polish antisemitism...
>
>Take a hint yourself.
>You lost your family members to German nazism, not Polish antisemitism.
>No matter how many Poles helped or did not help,
>it was the Germans that planned the holocaust.
>Had it not been for nazism, your relatives would still be living!!!
>So, could you please stop to accuse the Poles,
>who did not invent that hell?

We Jews, and especially those who survived the holocaust, will not forget
the Poles, Lithuanians, and Hungarians who helped the Nazis murder
Jews.  ANYONE in an occupied country who assisted the Germans is in
fact MORE guilty than the average German.  The German could at least
claim "following orders"; what excuse did the Poles, etc., have?  Maybe
they didn't invent the hell, but they had no problem signing up to
enter it.
-- 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: S H O F A R for Rosh Hashana
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:55:18 GMT

ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:

> The shofar for rosh Hashana should be a Ram Horn , unless you can't
> find one when you can use horns of goats and other animals ( but don't
> use a cow = or an Ox horn).

> Get one only from a reliable source

How can I test the animal's emuna?  :-)

-Don Gertler
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Torah In A Torah Context (was Re: more
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:34:35 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Sep10.165044.28367@shearson.com> esafern@shearson.com writes:
>In article CzF@mentor.cc.purdue.edu, hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>...<Sorry, stuff deleted>...
>>But a history book, or a science book, does not deliberately include as
>>facts things which are known to the author to be false.  If we assume
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>that the Written Torah is the literal word of God, we should be able
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>to assume that every word is literally correct.  Here we have two
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>extensively described rivers, which we cannot find, and two barely
>>described rivers, which "everybody" knows.  Now I have no problem with
>>accepting that the extensive description is there because good geography
>>books did not exist in those days, but the description should fit SOME
>>rivers arising in those mountains of southeastern Turkey.

>Herman,

>	Generally well reasoned arguments.  But this sentence seems to be
>a leap.  "Literally the word of God" - this means it *really, really* is the
>Word of God - no kidding, no doubt.  "every word is literally correct" - no
>falsehoods - God does not Speak un-Truth. This seems to be a reasonable
>expectation for an Omnipotent Being.

>	However, does it follow that on Omnipotent Being cannot Speak in
>Metaphors??

>	Certainly some of the Sages felt that some of Bereshit was metaphorical.

>	Does a logically consistent picture of an Omnipotent Being preclude
>His Speaking in Metaphors?

It does not.  Now come up with a reasonable argument why two of the rivers
should be totally metaphorical (what metaphor are you going to use) while
the other two seem quite literal and straightforward.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: jpw@minerva.ece.drexel.edu (Joseph Wetstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Moshiach Educational Line 1-800-4-MOSHIACH
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:50:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Drexel University, Philadelphia PA

In article <1992Sep6.043841.15289@cs.tulane.edu> david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann) writes:
>There is a new toll-free line with a five minute message about
>concepts, laws, etc. concerning Moshiach. The message changes weekly,
>and you can leave a comment or request further information.

I have a strong feeling that this is a Jews for Jesus line. It just
has that tone. Comments?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: michal@vsnmc2.cern.ch (Michal Szleper)
Subject: Re: Document that! (was Re: Violent antisemitism?)
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, Geneva
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:27:28 GMT

Stan Krieger writes:

>We Jews, and especially those who survived the holocaust, will not forget
>the Poles, Lithuanians, and Hungarians who helped the Nazis murder
>Jews.  ANYONE in an occupied country who assisted the Germans is in
>fact MORE guilty than the average German.  The German could at least
>claim "following orders"; what excuse did the Poles, etc., have?  Maybe
>they didn't invent the hell, but they had no problem signing up to
>enter it.

Stan Krieger, it looks like your hate to the Poles has shadowed
your brain.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions are my opinions. Quite predictable.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Michal~ Szleper                          "All you need is love, love,
(michal@vsnmc1.cern.ch)                   Love is all you need..."

Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15587 soc.culture.polish:2473
From: lbs@neptune.phys.ufl.edu (Lech Borkowski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Date: 9 Sep 92 02:26:49 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: University of Florida Physics Department - CMT Group

In article <oef_Oti00WB60qTVx3@andrew.cmu.edu> re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein) writes:
>Andrzej writes:
> [...]

>I'm not interested into getting here into a discussion about that subject.
>If you want to learn more about it, do some research.  If you want to hear
>Jewish and Arab opinions about it, subscribe to talk.politics.mideast.
>The camps you are talking about are either in Lebanon or have been created
>by Arabs in the areas occupied formerly by Jordan. Israelis created no
>camps.  More than that, many a Polish village looks worse than the camps
>Palestinians are living in.  Palestinians living in Israel have a standard of
>living not only higher than that of most Arabs around the world, but also
>higher than that of many Poles.

 and higher than that of many Americans. That reminds me of a typical
argument used by the government in Beijing that they brought 
civilization to Tibet. A golden cage is a cage. 
BUT: I don't want to get involved in a debate regarding
the Arab-Israeli relations. We were discussing the Polish-Jewish
relations here and let's keep that way.

>Rad

 Lech Borkowski
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: js@cs.tulane.edu (Jan Silbermann)
Subject: Kohanim & Converts
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:58:54 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-20701]: caesar


What are the various Halachic opinions on these questions?

1) Can a Kohen marry the daughter of a convert if the daughter
   was born after the mother's conversion?

2) Does it make a difference if the child was however _conceived_
   before the mother's conversion (though born afterwards)?

3) For each of these cases, if the answer is no but they marry anyway,
   are their sons regarded as Kohenim?  Would they be Halachicly
   obligated to divorce?

js@cs.tulane.edu
From: lbs@madeira.phys.ufl.edu (Lech Borkowski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Violent antisemitism?
Date: 7 Sep 92 23:01:38 GMT
Organization: University of Florida Physics Department - CMT Group

In article <goldberg.715599867@techunix.technion.ac.il> goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg) writes:

>Most of what Hayim writes has to do with the Poles,or, better, non Jewish
>inhabitants of the land now known as Poland. Just as in every Catholic region,
>antisemitism was very strong there. Some Catholic Poles gave or risked their
>lives to save Jews, less in proportion I believe than the very few French
>Catholics who did the same (including the family which saved my life). In the

 I would like to add that while making comparisons between the fraction
of Jews saved in France or Denmark and in Poland you should remember 
that the German occupation rules were mild in France
compared to Poland or Russia. A common penalty for saving Jews
in Poland during the occupation was execution of the whole family
that attempted to save them.  

 Lech Borkowski
From: allen@golem.ssc.gov (Michael Allen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The Location of Eden (Re: Torah In A Torah Context)
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:33:15 GMT
	<BuDDFA.E8v@sun3.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca> <BuHr3A.97A@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Reply-To: allen@ssc.gov
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX

>>>>> On 13 Sep 92 00:37:57 GMT, hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Rubin Herman) said:

In article <BuHr3A.97A@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Rubin Herman) writes:

Rubin> In article <BuDDFA.E8v@sun3.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca> ward@sun17.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Ward) writes:
>[H Rubin wondering why Eden has not been found]
>
>Perhaps the answer lies in 2 Kings 6:8-23.  (Specifically vs. 15-17).

Rubin> God can keep us from seeing Eden.  But then why tell us so much about it,
Rubin> and why have it guarded by winged creatures instead of just putting up
Rubin> a force field?  Or even just remove it from earth?

I don't know the answers to those quistions, but those are the right
questions to be asking.  Now take the next step, find out who among
the Meforshim have discussed them, and then ask more questions.
--
===================================================
But those who toiled knew nothing of the dreams of 
        Those Who Planned;                         
And the minds who planned the Tower of Babel       
        Cared nothing for the workers who built it.

	-Metropolis
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: A Jew knows German ?
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 20:45:13 +0200
Organization: "The Private site of Manfredo Tichauer"


lexier@fraser.sfu.ca (Lyle Lexier) writes:


> Hallo Manfredo,
>      Das ist ganz interessant zu sehen judische Leute, die Deutsch spricht
> und schreibt.  Ich wusste nicht, das Juden Deutsch wissen.
>  
> For non-Germans
>      This is quite interesting to see Jewish people who speak and write
> German.  I didn't know that Jews know German.
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                   

 Ludwig,

 May be  YOU  should learn how to write German and English correctly, and by
 he way, to learn something about German history AND literature.  Until 1933
 there were about 550.000 Jews  (not Jewish people) living in Germany.  From
 them, almost 250.000 were murdered by the Germans and their accomplices,the
 rest  fled for their lives  (in Germany it is said that Jews "emigrated" to
 other countries).

 Now about Jews knowing German. May be you heard or read about the following
 names:
                Vicki Baum                    
                Berthold Brecht
                Max Brod
                Martin Buber
                Elias Canetti
                Albert Einstein
                Lion Feuchtwanger               
                Sigmund Freud     
                Heinrich Heine
                Franz Kafka        
                Else Lasker-Schueler
                Stefan Zweig          

 These are just some of the hundreds of Jews that wrote in German and became
 quite known.

 BTW, you write your name is  Ludwig Lebrechthausen,  although actually Lyle
 Lexier. Did your father/grandfather "emigrate" to USA before 1939 or after
 1945? I'm just curious, as you are astounded that Jews know German. 
 
                                                         Manfredo

 PS: I forgot to add the  hundreds of thousands of Jewish  Austrians, Czechs,
     Slowaks, Hungarians, Swiss, etc. whose first or second mother tongue was
     German,although I should better write Austrian, Czech, Slowak, Hungarian 
     and Swiss Jews. Do you understand the difference?


> Ludwig Lebrechthausen
> (actually Lyle Lexier)
>
>
> -- 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Lyle Lexier        | There should be no discrimination against any person|
> |lexier@fraser.sfu.ca | for his/her race, sex, or sexual orientation.       |
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

               ???  AND HOW ABOUT    R E L I G I O N  and  B E L I E V E  ???
                                     ===================================




 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Not a Charm?
Date: 6 Sep 92 08:50:04 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

israel@unixg.ubc.ca (Robert B. Israel) writes:
>Some things my son pointed out to me:
      Congratulations to the son for the contribution and to his father 
      for such a son!
>................

>In Devarim 11:20-21, we have a source for the mitzva of mezuza
>("Write them on the doorposts of your houses and gates") and then
>for the "protection" ("In order to prolong your days..."). But
>we find in other places in the Torah (e.g. Devarim 8:1) it says
>that if you do the mitzvot you will live long.  Therefore it
>seems logical that the "protection" of the mezuza consists in
>reminding the person who sees it to keep the mitzvot, which in
>turn causes him to live long.

      On Sunday morning of the KI-TEZE week, I can't resist to suggest
to those, if any, that would not be satisfied by the above, but believe
that this means mundane protection, to quickly begin climbing on each and
every tree on their way to anywhere, to check for nests. It's of course
a sure way not to break a leg or an arm when accidentally falling... There
also, the promised outcome is "to prolong your days"...
      This quote may trigger a thread about ecology and bird destruction.
Before writing about this, a good idea would be to begin from the Hebrew
text, not a translation, and first study exactly what the word ROBETZ means.

        Yaaqov Goldberg
From: elip@desktalk.com (Eli Pashrel)
Subject: Re: Hi, again!  Rejecting tradition? (was On the SUPERIOR Role of Women)
Reply-To: elip@desktalk.com
Organization: Desktalk Systems Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:39:23 GMT

I'm sorry to interrupt this discussion but I notice the signature
of Hayim Hendeles and if it is the same Hayim Hendeles of Los Angeles
I think it is I'd like to reach him over Internet.

My email: elip@desktalk.com
get in touch



Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Theme bar/batmitzvahs
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:43:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.173436.9364@umbc3.umbc.edu>
shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:

>Today, kids spend a year or more preparing the entire Torah reading,
>even though most will never use the skill again.  IMHO, it's an
>ostentatious waste of everyone's time.

I'm one of these, but my parents required I layn every now and then during
high school and staying in practice was invaluable as I was able to help
layn at the Hillel in college.

>A better idea would be for the kid (boy or girl) to complete a section
>of mishnayot, and make a siyum (completing the study of a section --
>creating a true se'udat mitzvah.  (And a darn sight more reasonable
>than a kid reading a rebbe-written dvar Torah: "The Yerushalmi on this
>says ...", as if the kid happened to come across a yerushalmi before
>breakfast!)

Because of the norm of "Today I am a Fountain Pen" speeches, it was rare
for a boy to give a speech during davening in my parents' shul.  The few
exceptions were scholarly and though I was told the boys had done their
own preparation, I do understand Eliot's reservations.

My family catered my, and my brothers' bar mitzvas (for Kiddush we took
over the shul, the meals and party - actually an open house Saturday night
- were held in our home).  There was no big party although we figured
100-150 people wandered through the house Saturday night.  This was an
exception among our peers.

My parents insisted I give a speech during lunch and I found the item on
which to talk but did get help in source material.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: amir@leopard.gatech.edu (amir)
Subject: Re: Kashruth of wine
Keywords: Yein Nesech, Stam Yeinam
Organization: College of Computing
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:00:02 GMT

There are two concepts relating to wine:
	1. Yein Nesech.
	2. Stam Yeinam.

Yein Nesech is wine that was used for Avodah Zara. An example today
would be (according to the Rambam) wine used in church rites. This is
forbidden from the Torah (see last week's Parasha). 

Stam Yeinam is a wine that we are sure was not used for idolatry, nor
intended for such use, but is "regular old" wine of the gentiles. This
wine was prohibitted by the Rabbis for the reason mentioned before -
fraternization. 

-- Ami



					
					-Amihood Amir (amir@cc.gatech.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: Missionary Aid
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 14:18:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.130449.7437@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.161304.16097@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
>jpw@minerva.ece.drexel.edu (Joseph Wetstein) writes:
>
>>If anyone has any favorite arguments to use against such missionaries, I would 
>>appreciate hearing that too.
>
>I wouldn't use it as a first line of defense, but for the really annoying
>ones you could try the following:
>
>Ask if he accepts _everything_ in his bible.  If he says yes, slap him
>once.  If he gets angry, ask him about the verse about turning the
>other cheek.  If he agrees that its part of his bible and that he
>believes it, slap his other cheek, even harder.
 
Except you had better first be sure he is not a legalist who will then
counter with "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" and then proceed
to deck you.  =B^]
From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: When will Jews learn?!
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:03:28 +0200
Keywords: Anti-semitism South Africa
Organization: University of Cape Town

Recently many South African Jews have been collecting aid packages for
Muslims in Bosnia-Hercegovina. When they attended a rally in Cape Town in 
support of Bosnians they were treated to the usual Israeli flag burnings and
shouts of "Death to Zionist racists" from Cape Town Muslims. - When will Jews
learn.

The good news from SA is that the organization "Jews for Justice" has
been disbanded. This was an organization of Self-hating sycophantic Jews
who thaught that if they lick enough Christian, Muslim and Communist
backsides, then they wouldn't hurt us anymore grovel grovel toady.

Return to the days of the Gideonites and Maccabees and kick anti-semitic butt!
 
*****************************************************************************
* Baby Doc Naturman                                                         *
* USS Enterprise                           "Its life Jim,                   *
* Final Frontier                                  but not as we know it."   *
* naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za                                                 *
*                                                       Spock of Vulcan     *
*****************************************************************************
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Prophets, Ethics, Torah
Date: 11 Sep 92 06:51:14 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Sep10.150144.9353@panix.com> moskowit@panix.com (Len
Moskowitz) writes, (and he is right and accurate in any of his words):

>The prophets didn't distinguish between so-called ethical precepts and
>the so-called ritual ones.  This distinction is a sham, the proverbial
>hole-in-the-ground in which Jewish "ostriches" bury their heads.
>
>Judaism's ethical treatment of widows, orphans, the poor, and animals
>are G-d's commandments via the Torah, as are the commandments
>regarding the Sabbath and holidays, the dietary laws, tefillin and
>tzitzit, family purity, agricultural laws, and laws of the Temple.  It
>is completely artificial to impose distinctions between them or to
>assert that some are more authentically Jewish or important than
>others.
>
>Yechezkel (Ezekial), for example, exhorted the nation to follow the
>G-d's chukim and mishpatim.  He did not say: "it's okay to desecrate
>the Sabbath if you give enough charity and are ethical in your
>business practices."
>
Some may point out that there is a distiction between :
  Laws "between a person and other person" and laws "between a person
and G od " . But the difference is technicaly only.
 If one made a sin that hart another person then if he made TESHUVA
and he is realy sorrow for doing that then the first step he should do
is trying correcting that. If he does no effort to correct his bad
deed the conclusion is that he did no teshuva , but if he tried and
the other person do not forgive him then doing the real effort to
corredt the sin is enough  and G od may forgive him for that, namely
all sins are basicaly "between a person and G od"



Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Moshiach Educational Line 1-800-4-MOSHIACH
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:05:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.165045.17527@cbis.ece.drexel.edu> jpw@minerva.ece.drexel.edu (Joseph Wetstein) writes:
>In article <1992Sep6.043841.15289@cs.tulane.edu> david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann) writes:
>>There is a new toll-free line with a five minute message about
>>concepts, laws, etc. concerning Moshiach. The message changes weekly,
>>and you can leave a comment or request further information.
>
>I have a strong feeling that this is a Jews for Jesus line. It just
>has that tone. Comments?


As others have already pointed out, the Moshiach hotline is legitimate
and it is Lubavitch.  But the Lubavitch identity is only revealed at
the end of the message.

If you listen to the "general" information, it is amazingly "Pareve"
and universal; there is no explicit mention of mitzvot or anything 
else specifically Jewish.  That is probably what got Joseph so concerned.

Perhaps the producers feared that early identification of the source
as Lubavitch might turn some people off, so they decided to hold off
till the end, when they give you the number of your nearest Chabad House.
But there is a risk; naive people listening to this tape might later
be readily fooled by Messianic "Jews" whose initial messages might
be similarly vague and universal.
-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish