HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davem@cmn2.Stanford.EDU (David K. Mellinger)
Subject: Re: NEW Casio Alto Watch...
Summary: Campmor $130
Organization: CCRMA, Stanford University
Distribution: ba
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 19:53:49 GMT

John S. Watson writes:
>Well, I think it is more than coincidental that Casio should
>come out with a new Alto  at this time.
>So, does anyone know who is selling these in the Bay Area?

A Campmor (mail-order place) catalog, just arrived, has them for $130.
I forget where Campmor is but can look it up if you need it.

				Dave Mellinger
				davem@cs.Stanford.EDU
From: sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re:Re: Reasons for using (clear) chalk
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:13:17 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
Summary: Re: Transparent Chalk
Reply-To: bobs@biocat.ncdmf.usu.edu

Yo, Daniel,

Transparent chalk eh?

I`ll bet you Swiss also climb in clear lycra!

Bobs.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: brodesky@td2cad.intel.com (Michael Brodesky)
Subject: Ego's and Chalk, a walk down posting lane
Organization: intel corporation
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:35:20 GMT

	OK, I'll bite, yes the chalk makes rock look bad to some, and
to others it might look artistic. I'm not going to get into this part of
the thread. Instead I will focus on Ego's of Chalk users.

	I find it ironic that the person who posts the most climbing
adventures writes that Chalk users have big Ego's. And that a 5.12
climber could climb 5.11 without chalk- No new taxes seem to come to mind with
this statement. I also find it funny that Bill says Chalk does not make a
impossible route possible, but goes on to say that people can climb
harder routes with chalk. If I climb 5.11 face and I think 5.12 routes
are impossible, does this mean if I use chalk, I could climb a 5.12.

	Why do people who use chalk have big Ego's? Bill is spending
his time telling us how he does not use chalk, saying he can do routes
without it. Now who is boosting there ego?     
       
        From Bills posting's this year we know he uses spider mits. And
that he is just a 5.10 climber. Do spider mits count as something that
gets you up a climb easier. Should we all go back to climbing with
EB'S, instead of the latest style shoe. I'm sure Bill does not climb
in an out dated shoe, but uses the latest technology to do harder
climbs. Should we stop using camming devices beacuse they make it
easier to do pure crack climbs. I say no. If chalk helps a person
do a 5.7 or 5.14a what difference does it make. The person still has
to get up the climb.

	Bills says he does not use chalk, He has also posted several
times this year that he climbed at Pinnicales, doing  POD, Buffalo
Soilder, Anchor Scream, Big Pucker  and other routes. Well unless
he was the first person on these routes after a heaver rain, and for
POD, a sideways rain, Bill has used Chalk. POD is so covered with chalk
that you don't need to bring your own to get chalked up for the route.
And the other routes are also covered with chalked holds.  Maybe Bill
uses a tooth brush to clean the holds before he uses them to avoid the
chalk. 
	Who are the big Ego climbers that use chalk. Bill has told
us that he does not climb with people better than him most of the time.
How would he know that climbers who use chalk have big ego's? 

	Was it not only a short while ago that Bill said that reach was
not an issue?  And people on the net pointed out that most of the top
climbers were taller than 6 feet. 


	Yeah, I've climbed with Bill Wright, in fact I have been part
of his slack stick postings. Lets not forget how Bill wrote that
He, lead another climber  and I up Royal Arches in X-time, instead of
saying that we did the route quickly.  

	Ah to chalk or not to be. 



	

--
Michael Brodesky Internet Mbrodesky@sc9.Intel.com
UUCP : {pur-ee,qanad,oliveb,decwrl,hplabs}!intelca!mipos3!td2cad!brodesky
Sally sold sea shells. Ned Needamyer needled his nose on the nose. 
During the week I climb left to right. On weekends I climb up and down.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Rope decay
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:32:51 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <25531@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>Does anyone have any good idea if a rope which is kept in a cool, dry,
>dark place will weaken over the course of, say, a year?

Yes, once the rope is exposed to air.  Most ropes regrade
significantly in the first year of their life and seem to tapper off.
You did not mention if the rope was new "never out of the bag" or has
been used (even once).  Even new ropes will degrade unless they are
keep in an air tight bag.  This is why I hate buying ropes in a store
who knows how long they have sat on the shelf and how mush UV they have
slowly accumulated.  One rope manufacturer took a new rope that had
been sealled in a bag for 10 years and did a drop test on it.  It
failed on the first fall.

Cheers,

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah



"I always wanted to climb those peaks ...
	 just didn't think I would do them all in one day."

	My climbing partner after hiking/climbing in the Wasatch.

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: buick@belay (Patrick D. Buick)
Subject: Re: How strong do you have to be?
Organization: Belay Enterprises Inc. Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 17:25:04 GMT

In article <0095FF20.B8C8EE20@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.223908.7157@access.usask.ca>, choy@skorpio.usask.ca writes:
>>How strong do you have to be to climb a cliff? Do you have to support
>>yourself a lot with your arms?
>
>It depends on a lot of factors; how steep the "cliff" is, whether you're
>climbing cracks, face, slabs, etc.  And unless you're climbing much harder
>than about 5.10b/c -- and arguably even at the hardest grades -- you SHOULD
>be using your feet more than your arms.  
>
>Considering that (1)  I'm not too strong, and (2)  I climbed a "cliff" on
>Sunday...I guess that should answer your questions.
>
>Yahoodies to Saskatoon!!!!  
>>
>>Henry Choy
>>choy@cs.usask.ca

Yowsa... a post from the neighboring province.. I was beginning to wonder if
there were any!!  I haven't seen much activity in any of the groups I read.

Welcome..

Patrick
-- 
==========================================================
Patrick D. Buick EMT, EET | Internet: buick%belay.uucp@uunet.uu.net
Belay Enterprises Inc.    | Internet: buickp@cuug.ab.ca
Calgary, Alberta, Canada  | UUCP:..keyword!calgary!pixel!belay!buick
From: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Guide service: IAS
Date: 14 Sep 92 10:20:59 GMT
Reply-To: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University

In article <106480266@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, eao@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Ed Ogle) writes:
>Does anyone out there in notes-ville have any experience with guided trips
>put on by International Alpine School in Eldroado Springs, CO?  I am 
>interested in hearing about peoples experiences with them.  I am particulary
>interested in...

Call Sandy East @ (303) 494-4904.  Although I've never taken a course from
IAS, I lived in Eldo for a couple years and knew quite a few of the guides:
the place is HIGHLY recommendable.  Prices are reasonable if you live in
Colorado (transportation costs are lower).  The winter programs are out of
the Telluride area.  Probably about the best experience for the money you can
get in Colorado.

James T. "Sam" Vivian
Bozeman, MT
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: karl@bach.udel.edu (Karl Sohlberg)
Subject: pins and bolts (was Aiding Free Routes)
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:44:19 GMT


in
>
>Article: 5417 of rec.climbing
>Path: news.udel.edu!darwin.sura.net!gatech!psuvax1!psuvm!hyd
>Organization: Penn State University
>Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:08:48 EDT
>From: <HYD@psuvm.psu.edu>
>Message-ID: <92255.090848HYD@psuvm.psu.edu>
>Newsgroups: rec.climbing
>Subject: Aiding Free Routes
>
we read:
(underlining added)
>
> Over the weekend someone aided a classic free route called "Colman's a
> Faggott" in the Bellefont Quarry, PA. The offending climber used pitons to
> climb this obliviously clean finger crack. Since Colman is a major classic for
> the area and has been led clean many times, the person who did this is way out
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> of line. Due to the relatively soft nature of limestone, the Bellefont cracks
  ^^^^^^^^
> will not withstand much aiding with pitons. The local climbers who I've talked
> to are very angry about this. If anyone knows who did this please tell them to
> talk to locals before hammering their way up a route. This, by the way, is
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the only acceptable behavior when traveling to any climbing area. Just imagine
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> how you'd feel if someone bashed their way up your favorite finger crack.
>
>                                           Paul

     A not dissimilar incident happened at another PA climbing area
(Chickies rock) earlier this summer. Someone added a two bolt anchor
to the belay at the top of the first pitch of CHICKIES DIRECT. These
are the first and only two bolts at the crag. To make matters even worse
the bolts aren't even placed in a sensible place. They actually make
a sling belay about 10 feet above the belay ledge. Bolts may be
a way of life for climbers at Bellefont but they are an abomination
at Chickies. CHICKIES DIRECT has been led hundreds of times entirely
on gear, the bolter was clearly out of line.
     Like the man says, talk to the locals before altering a climbing
area forever. Just because "traditional ethics" have been abolished
at Bellefont does not mean you can hammer your way up Pennsylvania's
best finger crack. Similarly, Just because you want to rap off
the first pitch doesn't mean you can bolt the belay on one of
southeastern Pennsylvania's only multipitch climbs. The whole style
of the route has been changed forever.
     If you know who did this, I am...
     
Ready with tar and feathers.
Karl Sohlberg
(karl@brahms.udel.edu)
From: mrss_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Matt Ross)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Rappeling in Rochester ?
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:52:50 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

Does anyone know of a good place to learn rappelling in the Rochester, NY
area ?  Or suggestions for a good ropes course or survival course. 
I am trying to do some programming for a group of 30 of ages 18-20.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Please include price estimates if known.
Thanks.
Matt
-- 
Matt Ross
mrss_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
What ever you do, take care of your shoes.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: cptully@med.unc.edu
Subject: Chalk
Reply-To: cptully@med.unc.edu
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:24:07 GMT

Well,
I'm sick of reading all these conflicting opinions on chalk, so here
are my few comments:

One of my partners commented (and I have found this to be true) that he
(and I) never uses chalk on the really hard parts of a climb, because
he is too busy holding on, and looking for the next hold to reach for
the chalk bag!  If you think about this, I bet that alot of you who are
singing the praises of chalk will discover the same about yourselves.
If this is the case, chalk becomes a 100% PURE PSYCHOLOGICAL PROP.  So,
why do you need it?

On the other hand, I do like to have a bison ball handy, since my hands
do sweat a lot.  This is not inconsistent with my above statements
though; I will happily use a towel to dry my hands instead, its just
that a chalk bag is far more convient for one handed access.

Basically, use chalk if you REALLY need it, but use as little as
possible.  I think this is the gist of most of the post (from both
sides of the issue) that I have read, so why are we argueing about it?

All chalk subjects here by go into my KILL file, so don't bother
flaming me on the net (send mail instaed if you feel really
motivated).

-Chris
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst)
Subject: Re: Aiding Free Routes
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:30:56 GMT

HYD@psuvm.psu.edu writes:


> Over the weekend someone aided a classic free route called "Colman's a
> Faggott" in the Bellefont Quarry, PA. The offending climber used pitons to
> climb this obliviously clean finger crack.

To which I add another oblivious point.  Chipped holds are a big no-no on
free routes, except maybe at Smith, where they quietly do it anyway.  But
it seems that aid climbing is steeped in a long tradition of chipping, either
via pins, bolts, or little drilled pockets for hook placements.  And those
chipped up granite cracks can make for some awesome free climbing.

Ah, the irony of ironmongery!

>                                           Paul

Eric Hirst
eric@milton.u.washington.edu

The opinions expressed here are not opinions.  They are factoids.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bsbarron@eos.ncsu.edu (BRADFORD SCOTT BARRON)
Subject: Atlanta Climbing
Originator: bsbarron@c00510-118rd.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: bsbarron@eos.ncsu.edu (BRADFORD SCOTT BARRON)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 23:57:49 GMT


Anybody know about climbing at Stone Mtn., GA or other areas close to Atlanta?

-Brad
From: cc41@prism.gatech.EDU (Craig L. Champlin)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Atlanta Climbing
Date: 14 Sep 92 04:08:23 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep13.235749.5079@ncsu.edu> bsbarron@eos.ncsu.edu (BRADFORD SCOTT BARRON) writes:
>Anybody know about climbing at Stone Mtn., GA or other areas close to Atlanta?

Stone Mtn. park is CLOSED to climbing, something about liability. :-(

There are some decent afternoon walls near the 'hooch with climbs from
about 5.8 to 5.12.  These walls are very small and quite dirty but fun
for an afternoon.

Usually we head north to the heart of the Sandstone belt in Chattanooga.  
Sunset wall on Lookout mtn. has some very nice climbing, most of it
is over hanging fine grained sandstone.  There are about 15 guidebook
routes here as well as numerous "local" climbs.  Tennessee Wall off of I-124
has over fifty guidebook climbs of very fine quality.  Drive time
to these walls is about an hour and a half.

-- 
cc41@prism.gatech.edu    <-----  It looks silly, I know. 
                                 But this is where you can
                                 Reach me.
                                              - Craig Champlin
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: chalk....again.
From: lkampf@desire.wright.edu
Date: 12 Sep 92 00:13:36 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

Gee, sounds like a real flame war. Personally, I think it sounds much like 
the internal combustion engine, it was fine when there were only a few; but
now it's a problem. However, much like most other Americans, I will 
probably only  change when chalk begins to cost too much. 
    Incidentally, I'm seeing lots of emotion and not too much rationality. 
Remind me never to let any of you excitable fuckers belay me. 
Bob, I bask in your wierdness.
From: jay.mundy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jay Mundy) 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Re: forges (was Induction
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:05:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Web BBS 1-513-436-9011 6 Lines 1200 News groups 50,000 files!
Reply-To: jay.mundy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jay Mundy) 

DH>A forge is a furnace to heat metal to be wrought.  A propane forge is a
DH>forge that use propane for fuel.  They are a real joy to use compared to
DH>a traditional coal fired forge.
DH>Centaur forge has several sizes listed.  The smallest I have seen is about
DH>1.5 ft. long, and maybe a foot wide and tall.  Some of the big ones are
DH>6 ft long.
DH>Yes they can be used to harden tools.  About a year ago I went to a knife
DH>making workshop.  One of the knifemakers brought along his home made
DH>propane forge.  He used it for all the phases of the knife making (except
DH>tempering).  He forge welded several damascus steel billets.  I was
DH>amazed.  I am going to have one of those forges someday!!!
DH>Do you by chance make tools?

        Lo, could it be.....a blacksmith?  I'm interested in swapping
ideas, tips and techniques, of both bladesmithing and blacksmithing.
---
 . SLMR 2.1 . Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
From: jay.mundy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jay Mundy) 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Re: forges (was Induction
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:05:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Web BBS 1-513-436-9011 6 Lines 1200 News groups 50,000 files!
Reply-To: jay.mundy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jay Mundy) 

MSS-I>How about a phone number or an area code for Centaur Forge?

(414) 763-9175
117 North Spring St
P.O. Box 340-B
Burlington Wisconsin 53105

MSS-I>hey, if you think coal is a pain, try  using a homemade charcoal-fired
MSS-I>one... hmm, I'll have to try finding some coal....

        I used hardwood charcoal (chunks, not briquettes) for a while.
Worked rather well actually.  One of the things I particularly liked was
the relative cleanliness compared to coal.  The one drawback was that I
couldn't get it quite as hot as the coal.
---
 . SLMR 2.1 . All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
From: david@talgras.UUCP (David Hoopes)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: plans for a home built furnace
Date: 7 Sep 92 14:35:49 GMT
Reply-To: david@talgras.UUCP (David Hoopes)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tallgrass Technologies Inc.


Several people have ask about plans for home built furnaces or forges.  I
have a pamplet (which I cna't find) that has the plans for building a gas
fired furnace.  While I couldn't find the pamplet, I did happen to find 
the catalog that I ordered it out of.  In looking through I found that they
had plans for several differant kinds of forges and furnaces.  Everything 
from a charcoal fired one to an electric one.  The Catalog is "Lingsay's
Technical Books".  Lindsay Publications, Inc.  P.O. Box 583, Manteno Il 
60950.  Phone (815) 468-3668.  The catalog had a price tag of $1.00 on 
it but I don't remember paying for it.  It was worth a dollar just to 
read this interesting catalog.

Hope this is helpful.


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
David Hoopes                              Tallgrass Technologies Inc. 
david@tallgrass.COM                       11100 W 82nd St.          
Voice: (913) 492-6002 x323                Lenexa, Ks  66214
From: jay.mundy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jay Mundy) 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Re: forges (was Induction
Date: 7 Sep 92 10:22:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Web BBS 1-513-436-9011 6 Lines 1200 News groups 50,000 files!
Reply-To: jay.mundy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jay Mundy) 

DH>A forge is a furnace to heat metal to be wrought.  A propane forge is a
DH>forge that use propane for fuel.  They are a real joy to use compared to
DH>a traditional coal fired forge.
DH>Centaur forge has several sizes listed.  The smallest I have seen is about
DH>1.5 ft. long, and maybe a foot wide and tall.  Some of the big ones are
DH>6 ft long.
DH>Yes they can be used to harden tools.  About a year ago I went to a knife
DH>making workshop.  One of the knifemakers brought along his home made
DH>propane forge.  He used it for all the phases of the knife making (except
DH>tempering).  He forge welded several damascus steel billets.  I was
DH>amazed.  I am going to have one of those forges someday!!!
DH>Do you by chance make tools?

        Lo, could it be.....a blacksmith?  I'm interested in swapping
ideas, tips and techniques, of both bladesmithing and blacksmithing.
---
 . SLMR 2.1 . Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
From: jay.mundy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jay Mundy) 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Re: forges (was Induction
Date: 7 Sep 92 10:22:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Web BBS 1-513-436-9011 6 Lines 1200 News groups 50,000 files!
Reply-To: jay.mundy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jay Mundy) 

SJ>I'm looking for sources of wrought iron grate/grill/bars to put
SJ>over our basement windows.  (It isn't that we live in a high crime
SJ>area, but these windows are at ground level and I'd like protection
SJ>from children crashing through them. Security would be a secondary
SJ>consideration.)  Does anyone know someone who would be able to
SJ>make these look fairly good?  This person could be local (to Seattle)
SJ>or deal through mail-order.

        If you can give me exact measurements I can do it (Well, send
you a quote for the work anyway).  Another thing you may want to look
into is contacting a local welding firm.  The bigger ones in particular
often do that sort of thing.
---
 . SLMR 2.1 . My reality check just bounced.
From: jay.mundy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jay Mundy) 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Re: forges (was Induction
Date: 7 Sep 92 10:22:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Web BBS 1-513-436-9011 6 Lines 1200 News groups 50,000 files!
Reply-To: jay.mundy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jay Mundy) 

MSS-I>How about a phone number or an area code for Centaur Forge?

(414) 763-9175
117 North Spring St
P.O. Box 340-B
Burlington Wisconsin 53105

MSS-I>hey, if you think coal is a pain, try  using a homemade charcoal-fired
MSS-I>one... hmm, I'll have to try finding some coal....

        I used hardwood charcoal (chunks, not briquettes) for a while.
Worked rather well actually.  One of the things I particularly liked was
the relative cleanliness compared to coal.  The one drawback was that I
couldn't get it quite as hot as the coal.
---
 . SLMR 2.1 . All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
From: Alan Deacon
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Tom Littauer (Milk based paints)
Date: 7 Sep 92 12:38:46 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

Is it me, or does this board have a very fast turn-over rate? I only tend
to tune in evry few days, and find most of the articles are cancelled or
expired. 

I know Tom Littauer posted a reply to my original query - but I've no
idea *what* he posted.

Tom could you please re-post, or better still mail me direct. *That* way
I'll know I've got it.

--
	Alan Deacon
	Central Computing Service		Email: a.deacon@ucl.ac.uk
	University College London		Tel: +44 71-380 7359
	Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT		Fax: +44 71-388 5406
From: jay.mundy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jay Mundy) 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Re: forges (was Induction
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:05:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Web BBS 1-513-436-9011 6 Lines 1200 News groups 50,000 files!
Reply-To: jay.mundy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jay Mundy) 

SJ>I'm looking for sources of wrought iron grate/grill/bars to put
SJ>over our basement windows.  (It isn't that we live in a high crime
SJ>area, but these windows are at ground level and I'd like protection
SJ>from children crashing through them. Security would be a secondary
SJ>consideration.)  Does anyone know someone who would be able to
SJ>make these look fairly good?  This person could be local (to Seattle)
SJ>or deal through mail-order.

        If you can give me exact measurements I can do it (Well, send
you a quote for the work anyway).  Another thing you may want to look
into is contacting a local welding firm.  The bigger ones in particular
often do that sort of thing.
---
 . SLMR 2.1 . My reality check just bounced.