HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotgun recomm. for new shooter?
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:45:27 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <9211052040.AA03591@newshost.lanl.gov> crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby) writes:
#In article <1992Nov4.185410.17005@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
#= 	
#= 	PS Automatic ejectors are the neatest thing since sliced bread :)=)
#
#As long as they work!  

	Precisely why I love the LC Smiths.  They are so well made, it makes
	me sick, at least the ones's I have had the pleasure of being
	exposed to.  One day I WILL have a Smith.

	-Andy V.
From: glock@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: ammo to use for shooting match
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:52:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: bigguy.9211091654.AA10495
Organization: College of Business, University of Florida

I have a Glock 20, and plan on competing in a match soon.  My question is:  
what is the best ammo to use?

I currently shoot Blazer 200gr TMJs.  They are full velocity 10mm rounds.  
Would it be advisable to use subsonic rounds?  Are FMJs the way to go?  
Obviouosly, I would buy several hundred rounds and practice, but I need to 
know what is considered "best" for match shooting.  By the way, the type of 
match I will attend uses standard NRA paper targets, as well as steel 
targets.  I do not think the range will be over 20 yards.

Thanks in advance.






Joe

****************************************************************
**                 GLOCK@chip.cba.ufl.edu                     **
**                                                            **
**     "When the going gets tough, the tough get a GLOCK."    **
****************************************************************
From: mkilpela@mtu.edu (Mark E. Kilpela)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:34:02 GMT
Organization: Michigan Technological University

In article <4114@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, saw8712@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Steve
A. Ward) wrote:
# 
# 
# In article <RTARAZ.92Nov5125515@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>, rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
# # 
# # After going to an indoor range for many times, I would like to take my
# # Taurus 92 out side for a while.  I like to know what are some fun
# # things to shoot at. (i.e.  A television tube should be alot of fun)
# # 
# # rtaraz
# 
# Alot of things are fun to shoot at, some are less fun to clean
# up, and alot less fun for the next guy who comes along to look at.
# I hate going to private lands where the owner has graciously allowed
# you to come on and target practice, only to find someones garbage shot
# to you know what all over the place.  Needless to say, these places
# sometimes become inaccessible.


Plastic milk jugs filled with water are great targets and easy to pickup
when shooting is over.  They explode beautifully and the water don't hurt
anything.  Collect jugs between shooting sessions.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark E. Kilpela                          email mkilpela@mtu.edu  
Michigan Technological University        phone   906-487-2264
School of Technology 
Home of the Huskies
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Unique questions
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:47 GMT
Organization: Morning Star Technologies

In article <9211041654.AA00221@rutgers.edu> amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves) writes:
#
#I was reloading some .357 last night.  From the Speer manual I got a
#load for a 158gr JHP that looked interesting.
#7.7 gr Unique up to 8.2 gr for maximum.
#My can of Unique is only about 8 months old, and has been stored in a
#cool dry location in the original container, with the top on, there's
#about half a can left.  I use a Lee autodisk measure, and their
#conversion tables.  Their tables say that .88cc will equal 8.1gr (I
#could be wrong on this, this is from memory, but my question will
#still be valid).  Not wanting to start out with a maximum load I
#figured I'd drop down to .82cc.  That listed at being 7.7 gr.  So, I
#set the .82cc disk in the measure, loaded the hopper to the top with
#Unique, and threw a few to settle the powder.  Then I threw one and
#weighed it.  It came out about 6.5 gr!  Thinking there might have been
#an error, I threw a few more and measured them.  They all came out
#about 6.5 gr +- .05gr.  So I moved the measure disk up to .88 cc.
#This brought the weight up to 7.1 gr.  I then moved it up to .95cc.
#This brought the weight up to 7.7 gr. which I ended up loading.
#
#Anyone have any idea why the disparity between what the data said it
#should weigh, and what I got?

The actual shape of the powder granules is different for different powders.
Some of the various shapes are cylinderical, spherical, flake, and I believe
Toroid.  The Point of this is that for a given _volume_ of powder, you
will have different _weights_ due to the fact that some powders pack denser
than others.  I've never used a Lee reloader (gotta Dillon and love it:-)
but I fail to see how any such conversion table such as you described could 
ever be accurate -  you would need a separate table for each powder. 
Then again, if you _do_ have a table for the specific powder you are using,
then I haven't the slightest idea what your problem could be, but I 
thought the granule shape factor worth mentioning.


Chris Miller
chris@MorningStar.Com
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Chinese 7.62 x39 Rounds
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:18:39 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Nov10.103145.19301@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
#Well, the stuff I bought a month or so ago is 'steel' core.  I don't
#know when it was imported but I got it from a volume discount place
#(Tri City Sporting Goods in Freemont), so I don't think it sat on the
#shelf long.

It could be stuff in transit for a long time, of from a wholesaler
that had it for some time.  Anything's possible.

#attracted to a magnet.  Head stamp 9121 over 73. Claimed non-corrosive.
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
.....
#Guess I'll have one 'sacraficial round' from each case I buy ... just
#so I know what I'm shooting ...

For the reason underlined above you might want to sacrifice a single
round anyway.  Pull the bullet, dump the powder and fire the case with
primer at a degreased steel plate.  If the plate shows rust after a
few days in a humid environment then the primer was corrosive.

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Laser Guns (was Re: Arrow proof? Re: Bullet Proof Vests)
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:03:56 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <199211081930.AA07768@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
->In article <1992Nov5.205146.6186@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
->#I vaguely remember a Pop Science article from a few years back 
->#that had a 'laser turret' on a tank body (this was reputed to 
->#be acutal pictures of real DOD development systems) that was
->#able to shoot down drone airplanes...
->
->That would be MIRACLE (Mid InfraRed ? Chemicle LasEr). It was actually
->ship mounted.

There was also some sort of laser mounted on the upper deck of a 747
that was used to shoot down a sidewinder missile.  There is progress,
but if the military is not using lasers as weapons on a regular basis
yet then I think we are still quite a few years away from even laser
rifles, much less laser pistols.

Oh, there is also the Russian Sary Shagan (spelling is no doubt way off)
laser near the Afghanistan border that has reportedly been used to blind
US satellites (ie destroys sensors).

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: apskato@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 14 Nov 92 02:57:48 GMT
Organization: Mankato State University

In article <lairdb.721549413@crash.cts.com>, lairdb@crash.cts.com writes:
# I am a police officer?  Look at the result with mild surprise, say "whoops",
# get kidded in the locker room, and do a few days of paperwork until the
# shooting team sends me a memo saying "No problem, bucko, it was a good shoot."

Please.  How about getting put on administrative leave for a long time while
the Internal Affiars Unit, the County Attorney's office, the City Manager's
office, the local human right's commission, the US attorney's office, the FBI,
the Justice Department, and the local news media review your actions and decide
over the course of several months to years what you had a second or so to
decide.  As an officer, you will get reviewed by administrative law, civil law
and criminal law.  If Internal Affiar's decides that you violated the
departmental policy, you can kiss your butt (and your job and pension) goodbye. 
Heaven help you went the victim's family's defense counsel get's done with you. 
Now you can not only kiss your job and your pension goodbye, but also the house
and anything you will have to sell to pay the civil penalties.
 
Or let's say you win the civil case, now you have almost as much money owed in
legal fees that if you would have lost the case.
 
Can you say "highly actionable tort"? 
 
Also try and understand that most officers who use deadly force end up
resigning several years afterwards.  Many of them just never get over it. 
Fortunately most officers never have to use deadly force...
 
And they wonder why most officers die at age 57...

 
Eric Huber
Mankato State University
Law Enforcement Program
From: spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Selling Home-loaded Ammo?
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:49:27 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <1992Nov10.015341.19406@gibdo.engr.washington.edu> bobk@gibdo.engr.washington.edu (Bob) writes:
#
#  I attended my first gunshow and was struck by the number of people
#  selling home-loaded ammo.  I'm kind of curious about how easy or hard
#  it is for someone to start selling ammo (or reloading services).
#
#  Beyond the loading equipment and components, what are the minimum
#  requirements for selling home-loaded ammo 1) at a gunshow or flea
#  market 2) through the local classified ads 3) mail order 4) to gun
#  dealers/shops and 5) retail?  Is there an FFL or something equivalent
#  required?  Are there other considerations or problems? 
# 


 liability insurance ?

-Steve
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Arrow proof? Re: Bullet Proof Vests
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:34:24 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <1992Nov4.190835.13565@guinness.idbsu.edu> betz%gozer@uunet.UU.NET (Andrew Betz) writes:
#
#which brings up the obvious question - at what power level would a
#laser weapon change from essentially a scalpel to a destructive
#device?  are such power levels currently portable?

First of all, define portable.  I will say that if man portable is what
you mean, then probably even those "scalpel" lasers are not.  You have
to include the power supply (or use a really long extension cord maybe?).
It may be that such lasers are not even very vehicle portable, although
I don't know for sure.  Can anybody describe the power supply for a
surgical laser, and give some sort of specs (ie rate or depth of cutting,
etc)?

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: chuckh@apex.com (Chuck Huffington)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: New USPSA rules...
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:56:51 GMT
Organization: Apex Computer Company

In article <1992Nov11.034344.21632@netcom.com> pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune) writes:
#I just got my November/December issue of Front Sight, and thought I'd pass
#along a couple of things I found in the Inside USPSA section that were news to
#me...
#
#Apparently, there are now three classes, instead of just Limited and Open.
#"The Assembly approved three categories of competition for Level 3 and higher
#IPSC sanctioned events.  STANDARD, which is our Limited category, prohibits use
#of optics and comps.  MODIFIED permits any modifications as long as it fits
#within a box with the dimensions of 225mm x 150mm x 45mm.  OPEN is the current
#open or unlimited category."
#
#Since when was there consideration for a third class?  So is this actually an
#IPSC classification, or will USPSA be adopting this?  It's not entirely
#clear...

I think it applies to international competition only.

#
#There was also this tidbit on maximum magazine length (?)...
#
#"The Assembly ruled that for OPEN/UNLIMITED category ONLY, no magazine may
#exceed 170mm which includes any pads, accessories or attachments.  The United
#States will be asking the assembly to extend this ruling to Standard/Limited
#category after we test the concept here in the U.S."
#
#This doesn't seem to make much sense.  I think the rule about the magazine
#not extending beyond the frame was more than adequate.  With this rule, even
#if your STOCK magazine is longer than this (not likely, I'll admit), you're
#hosed.  Plus, it seems that this would be more of a concern for limited class
#shooters rather than open class, but ah well...

Yes it does make sense.  It says that extended magazines are legal.
Up to a certain length.  The length is pretty long.
The old extended .45 magazines will be legal.
This will be very nice to those still shooting single stack guns.
From: jl@whamt.att.com (Joseph A Lapenta)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ammo for sale
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:24:25 GMT
Organization: AT&T

FOR SALE:

   170 rounds of Federal .308 Winchester ammo
   (180 grain soft point "Hi-Shok")

   $85.00 for 8 1/2 boxes (20 rounds per box)

Please respond by email or phone (201)386-4883 (I don't read this
newsgroup often).

Thanks!

Joe LaPenta
From: post@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (David Post)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Laser Guns (was Re: Arrow proof? Re: Bullet Proof Vests)
Date: 8 Nov 92 13:27:22 GMT

Seth Malcolm Redmore :
 >it.  Red is a bad color for night use.  I'd prefer green or yellow...

I'm not sure this is right.  Red light "light adapts" the eyes the least of
any visable light.  It has the least effect on night vision.  I would think
it is the best color to use at night.  Lots of military equipment used red
to illuminate control panels and so on.

Is there another reason why red might be bad?

David Post  davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why are there no reliable semi-auto shotguns?
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:04:11 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <25499@sybase.sybase.com> mtxinu!sybase!joe@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Joseph Weinstein) writes:
#
#This is the idle curiosity of a fringe gun fan but
#committed home-defender:
#
#Why are there no highly reliable semi-auto shotguns
#for defence?

There are reliable semi-autos, assuming *flawless* ammo.

#I would like a defence-oriented 12-guage shotgun
#that I can just pick up and have it go boom-boom-boom
#while I keep pulling the trigger. The action and feeding
#mechanism could be like a Glock, or it could even be a
#cylinder like a double action revolver. Am I alone in
#my sence of the slow, dangerous inconvenience of having
#to jack the slide between aimed shots?

A pump is neither slow nor an inconvenience. In fact experienced
pump gunners can *exceed* the rate of fire of semi-autos with
certain guns, Ithaca Mod 37 for example. The most valuable feature 
of a pump is the ability to quickly clear a faulty round and keep 
shooting.

Gary
From: basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:29:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov13.071203.11287
Organization: University of Washington


I have to say that I have found the moderation of this group to be
of exceptional quality. I see the moderator's role as not only a filter,
but as a resource of expertise and encouragement.  Prof. Purtilo has
performed these duties with aplomb and I encourage him to persist
without changing his style one bit.

David Basiji
basiji@u.washington.edu
UW Bioengineering Grad Student and shooting enthusiast
From: vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: breakdown .22s'
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:45:02 GMT
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.


A friend of mine was looking for a .22 rifle (semi-auto) that can break down
into a smaller package.  The only three guns like this that I know of are:

	1) The Marlin Papoose  ~$130 with carry case
	2) Feather AT-22 ~250 without carry case.  Designed to looks like a 
 	   military styled weapon.
	3) The AR-7 style guns, ~$170, where the barrel can be stored in
	   the stock, and it can even float.

Any opinions on any of these guns.  Anything else out there that we are
missing.

				Thanks, 

                                Bill Vojak
                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com
                                NRA, ILA, CFC

------------------------------------------
Anti-Gun President, Anti-Gun Congress,
Better buy what you want BEFORE Dec 31.
----------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
The CBS Nightly Propaganda With Dan Rather. (RATHER NOT!)
The CBS Nightly Propaganda With Dan Rather. (RATHER BIASED!)
------------------------------------------------------------
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Psychology in Defense (was: Arms to bear)
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:36 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


In article <13400055@iftccu.boeing.com>, bressler@iftccu.boeing.com
(Rick Bressler) writes:
#
#/ iftccu:rec.guns / malodah@pbhyf.pacbell.com (Martin A. Lodahl) / 
#8:31 pm  Nov  1, 1992 /
#In article <1992Oct31.063124.4434@unislc.uucp>
#unislc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Bill Gray) writes:
#
##A friend of mine always felt that a 12 ga. pump gun was the best
#choice,
##as the sound of racking a shell into the chamber would probably be 
##enough to immobilize the average thug.  I once accomplished the same
##end by chambering a round in a .45 auto, so I think he may have
#something
##there.
#
#Yeah, if the perp is some light weight young/middle aged YUPPIE like
#us.  On 
#the other hand, if he's a hardened type who's been on the street or in
#the 
#joint, he might find it amusing that here is this guy who is so stupid
#>that he just realized that he might need a loaded gun, or if you
#jacked off a 
#loaded round, he can figure you are so stupid that are throwing ammo
#away.

I disagree here!!! There is more than one person in my house handling 
firearms (my wife also). I am of the opinion that it is safest to jack 
a round in the chamber REGARDLESS of what you think is in there. This 
makes SURE that there is a round available. Better safe than sorry. 
BTW, my standard method of storing my shotgun (9 shot pump) is with 
safety OFF and an EMPTY (already fired) round in the chamber to make 
cycling the slide possible without hitting that stupid little 
pump-release on the reciever. I think it is the safest way to go. 
Of course it looks like there is a "good" shell being ejected, but 
it DEFINITELY implies that there is NOW a good round in there.
#
#This might work on punks, but I wouldn't recommend it.  This falls into 
#the same category as 'warning' shots.  

I think that in the situation where they hear the slide being racked 
and (maybe) see the spent shell leaving, they will be a lot LESS 
likely to believe that you are pointing an UNloaded weapon!!

Later, Eddie
From: jstrait%eehp8@ux3.cso.uiuc.edu (Jeff Strait)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Problem with the Berettas?
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:47:54 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Thi Huynh) writes:

#jstrait@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (strait jeffrey c) wrote:
## 
## Beretta has a limited one year warranty. They specifically warn
## against using +P and reloaded ammo.  So if you do that and crack
## the slide you are screwed.

#Beretta only warns against using +P+ and reloaded ammo.

They warn that doing so will void the warranty.

#-tt
-- 
Jeff Strait                    |  jstrait@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu
Univ. of Illinois              |  or jstrait@uiuc.edu
Coordinated Science Lab        |  (217) 333-6444
1308 W Main St, Urbana IL 61801|
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT .380, Colt Mustang, or other?
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:05:47 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

scylax!root@uunet.UU.NET (Operator) writes:

#The Mustang is single action.  A museum piece.  Who wants to carry
#locked and cocked anymore?.   

Lots of people, obviously, or they wouldn't be buying them.
The Glock, despite its "safe action" claim, is a single action

(double action: trigger cocks and releases hammer,  
single action: trigger cannot cock hammer).

#I have a SIG P230.  which is as acurate
#as a small auto can be.  It is a little larger than the Walther PPK, but
#I like it because it has never jammed on me after thousands of rounds
#and you can feel the quality.  AMT can get close to that either.

So you got a gun you like.  There are lots of people who are happy
using guns that can't be cocked with the trigger: 1911s, Mustangs, 
Glocks, Firestars, etc etc.   If it's your gun, you're supposed to
learn how it works.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 14 Nov 92 02:59:56 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <62013@mimsy.umd.edu> magnum@cs.umd.edu writes:
#
#			How am I doing?
#

Pretty damned good, if you ask me.  The political stuff is filtered,
and when a non-political thread goes political it's promptly
re-directed.  This moderated group works as well or better that other
moderated groups that I read.

The comments aren't overbearing, nor do they bother me - they
frequently reflect my own thoughts, and may well encourage further
comment.

Judging from the excerpted mail I feel that Mr. Klausner is out of
line and acting unreasonable.  If he feels that he can do a better
job, or that an unmoderated group would be better then he should go
ahead and propose them (in alt.config where any alt newgroup
discussion should be held).

I feel that I should remind him that much of usenet is a volunteer run
organization, and judging from his mail address that if I didn't
manage unmvax news and perform the feed to bbx news (and manage it as
well) and feed the site yenta from where he's posting he wouldn't be
able to read rec.guns at all.  Moderating a group, particularly one as
active as rec.guns is as thankless a task.

I'll send this to Mr. Klausner as well to be sure that he sees it. 
Others replying to him might use the address yenta!ben@bbx.basis.com -
that's a better address than the ones from the mail headers.

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food


Xref: sparky rec.guns:15479 talk.politics.guns:23785