HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Othello
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:51:16 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

cmspring@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Colin Springer) writes:

>  Othello Puzzle #1:

>   . o o o . x . .
>   . . o x o x . .
>   . x x o x o x .
>   x x x x x x x .
>   x x x x o x o o
>   x x o o x o o .
>   x . x o o x . .
>   . x x x x x x . 

>White (o) to play and win decisively ...

>Where would YOU go?

(You omitted a coordinate system). I would play diagonally next to the
upper left corner, yielding:

   . o o o . x . .
   . o o x o x . .
   . x o o x o x .
   x x x o x x x .
   x x x x o x o o
   x x o o x o o .
   x . x o o x . .
   . x x x x x x . 

Black can not immediately play in the top left corner, so white's next
move will be two spaces below the top left corner. This way (most of)
the left edge and (all of) the bottom edge will be white. If black
should play on the top row, this threat may be handled in the obvious
way, and if he plays on the right edge to turn over a piece on the
diagonal, a move on the end of the diagonal takes care of this threat.
But note that giving black accss to the top left corner doesn't change
the fact that almost two full edges become white.

	Torben Mogensen (torbenm@diku.dk)
From: sbp5893@tamsun.tamu.edu (Suresh Peram)
Subject: Abstract games & Chess
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:33:08 GMT


Does chess come under the classification of
abstract games ?  Is abstract something that you
think mostly and do little physical stuff ?

Suresh Peram
From: gugler-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean Gugler)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Let's start off with TWIXT
Date: 13 Nov 1992 06:15:29 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Undergraduate
Distribution: world
	<1dqb3iINNseo@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> <BxK1o5.My6@cs.psu.edu>
	<1992Nov13.073054.2028@linkoping.trab.se>
NNTP-Posting-Host: frog.zoo2.cs.yale.edu
In-reply-to: ath@linkoping.trab.se's message of 13 Nov 92 07:30:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.073054.2028@linkoping.trab.se> ath@linkoping.trab.se (Anders Thulin) writes:
>In article <BxK1o5.My6@cs.psu.edu> flee@cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) writes:
>>Here's a draw, on a small Twixt board.  Neither player can complete
>>their goal.
>>	. . O .
>>	X ./. .
>>	.\O X .
>>	. X O\.
>>	. ./. X
>>	. O . .
>
>That looks like a draw. I can't find any obvious way to draw on an
>odd board (say 5 x 5), though - is there one?
>
>Are TWIXT boards odd or even?

Even, I believe (20x20?).  But irrelevant.  The key feature is the 2x2
knot in the middle; neither "X" nor "O" can bypass this -- connect it
as far as you like in all four directions.

Your 5x5 case:
X . _-O .
.\O-X-_ .
. X O .-X
. ./. . .
. O . . .

-- 
Sean Gugler                    gugler-sean@cs.yale.edu     <-- Internet
P.O. Box 1902 Yale Station         gugseap@yalevm          <-- Bitnet
New Haven, CT  06520   USA         sgugler@music.yale.edu  <-- NeXT
(203)-436-0861            We both have truths; are mine the same as yours?
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: nwbernst@unix.amherst.edu (Neil Bernstein)
Subject: Re: Move
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:03:51 GMT

Tom Boutell (boutell@isis.cshl.org) wrote:
: In article <1992Nov12.134933.9137@genie.slhs.udel.edu> nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
: >In article <DBH.92Nov12094822@wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk> dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Denis Howe) writes:
: >>boutell@isis.cshl.org (Tom Boutell) wrote:
: >>>King's pawn to queen's duck thirteen. Soprano.
: >>
: >>neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers) wrote:
: >>>Zebedee takes the staff car, with the candlestick!  Do not collect $200.
: >>
: >>In article <1dscpqINNd30@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> nate@cats.ucsc.edu
: >>(Nathaniel Douglas Renwick) wrote:
: >>>Ahh... but having forfeited your right to pluck the chicken, I have
: >>>put sleeves on my vest.  Wrong number.
: >>
: >>Troglodyte (+2,-3,0) and double.
: >Aleph null squared plus seventeen. You have control of the national debt.
: I castle through Robert Abrams' corpse, yielding a surplus. 
: Please remove your flatiron from Marvin Gardens.

Violation of Rule Theta! [all practical application forbidden, cf "flatiron."]
Penalty: drag your favorite Homeric hero seven times around the board, or draw
a Liberal Arts Major card.

						- Neil Bernstein
						struggling Classics major


Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: elascurn@daimi.aau.dk (Lars R{der Clausen)
Subject: Collection of small games
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 09:49:56 GMT

Seeing as to how a lot of small nifty games spring up in this newsgroup, I'd
like to hear if somebody could gather them together for a (sort of) FAQ. Maybe
a FPG (Frequently Posted Games) or something. Could be nice to have a small
book of these itty-bitty games handy. Anyone volunteer?

-Lars Clausen

-- 
C code.  C code run.  Run code, run. ..please?
				-Unknown
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: gary@astros.base.bellcore.com (Gary Levin)
Subject: Useful book
Organization: /bdfs/users/gary/.organization
Distribution: rec
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:41:45

I would recommend that anyone interested in this group check out the
two volume set titled "Winning Ways" by Berlekamp, Conway, and Guy.
(Conway is the fellow who invented the cellular automata game Life.)

The first volume is devoted to modeling and solving various general
games, like nim and a bunch of graph based games.  It is based on a
non-standard model of numbers (see Knuth's Surreal Numbers for a light
hearted approach to these unusual numbers).

The second volume is particular games and includes Twixt and Mankala,
and also a wide variety of solitare games, including an amazing
analysis of Rubik's cube.  

All the games seem to fall in the category of abstract games and are
devoid of chance.


--
Gary Levin/Bellcore PYA 1E132/Piscataway, NJ 08854
(908)699-3754  base!gary    gary@base.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: rpowers@panix.com (Richard Powers)
Subject: Re: Abalone.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 06:23:09 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1992Nov12.213654.9196@news.arc.nasa.gov> nicholso@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Melvin H. Nicholson YBH) writes:

>Yep.  I've played Abalone.  I even tried an e-mail game or two, and here
>is the notation we used.

>     x x x x x
>    x x x x x x
>   . . x x x . .
>  . . . . . . . .
> . . . . . . . . .
>  . . . . . . . .
>   . . o o o . .
>    o o o o o o
>     o o o o o

Here is the notation I have since adopted:

I     @ @ @ @ @ 
H    @ @ @ @ @ @
G   . . @ @ @ . .
F  . . . . . . . .
E . . . . . . . . .
D  . . . . . . . .
C   . . O O O . .
B    O O O O O O
A     O O O O O
 
Black on top here.  Guess I should flip it.

Using numbers from left to right.  Thus the legal coordinates  are:
 
I1 - I5
H1 - H6
G1 - G7
F1 - F8
E1 - E9
D1 - D8
C1 - C7
B1 - B6
A1 - A5
 
To report a move, indicate the space to be emptied and the space to be
filled.  
 
This coordinate system is lifted from NAFA (North American Federation of
Abalone) newsletter.  (I guess that makes it official?)

>For example, 23, 55, and 97 would be:

>      . . . . .
>     . * . . . .
>    . . . . . . .
>   . . . . . . . .
>  . . . . * . . . .
>   . . . . . . . .
>    . . . . . . .
>     . . . . . .
>      . . . . *

These would be H2, E5, and A5


>Example: Black starts with "p97nw" and white moves "r3436se"

This would be A5 - D5 and G(3-5) - F(4-6)

>      o o o o o
>     o o o o o o
>    . . . . . . .
>   . . . o o o . . 
>  . . . . . . . . .
>   . . . . x . . .
>    . . x x x . .
>     x x x x x x
>      x x x x .

I don't like the way you denote the east-west corrdinates.  There is no 11?

-- 
rpowers@panix.com                .sig file...             ...just a .sig file.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 11:19:29 EST
From: Jeff Raven <JAR129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Abstract games & Chess

Yes, chess does fall under the definition of abstract games used in
the charter. However, since chess already has its own group -
rec.games.chess - chess-specific discussion, according to the
charter, should take place there.

Enough of this type of question has come up in the last day that
I am including the group's charter at the end of this article. I
think it explains things pretty well, and hopefully it will
clear up any confusion the name of the group has caused.

Jeff Raven
jar129@psuvm.psu.edu

-

Excerpt from the CFV for REC.GAMES.ABSTRACT :

Charter
-------

        The newsgroup would be for discussion of abstract games where
        strategy, tactics and player skill are paramount.  This includes
        the major category of perfect information, pure-strategy
        (deterministic) games, i.e. those with no element of chance (e.g.
        no dice), and where all information is available (unlike card gam
        and Scrabble, for example, where players' hands are hidden).  The
        games under consideration are characterised by a simple board and
        pieces, with a small number of rules.  The cliche `a minute to
        learn, a lifetime to master' is often applied.

        o       discussion of less mainstream abstract games,
                which do not warrant a group of their own.

        o       design and implementation issues for computer players.

        o       develop generic code for computer programs,
                such as board widgets, alpha-beta and other algorithms.

        o       introduce each other to new games, thus finding new
                opponents.

        o       discuss strategy & tactics for human players.

        o       what makes a {good,fun,hard,popular} abstract game?
                Will playing X be detrimental/beneficial to my Y playing?

        o       ask `experts' for rule clarification.

        o       catalogue known abstract games, variations, genealogy,
                sources of equipment, literature, clubs.

        o       maintain a list of email opponents for various games.

        o       maintain a list of email opponents for various games.

        o       catalogue available computer programs for these games.

        o       maintain a FAQ, outriggers could be posted to other group
                get a mention in appropriate FAQs.

        o       propose and discuss new games or mechanisms

        o       puzzles for games other than chess et al.

        o       organise tournaments for various (obscure) games.

        o       organise an ftp archive, where useful information and gam
                programs can be held.

        o       vote for the best and the worst abstract game of the year
                (or month or ever!)

        o       generally have fun in a decent way
From: jadair@cs.utexas.edu (John S. Adair)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: What???
Date: 9 Nov 1992 22:34:05 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1dn4ikINN94q@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, Billy Don McConnell writes:
>You know, if you think about it, maybe we're playing the game already!

I hope so! Am I winning??!? 8)
-- 
John S. Adair        | gobble gobble gobble woo woo woo
(512)323-6115        | Whaddya think--'The turkeys are not what they seem',
jadair@cs.utexas.edu |     or 'I am the turkey leg, and I sound like this'?
From: akessler@bernard.ma.utexas.edu (Adam Kessler)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: The Biggest Number Game
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:17:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: math.1992Nov11.191721.19173
Organization: University of Texas at Austin Mathematics

In article tjdonald@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Toby Donaldson) writes:
>So, inspired by the Mornington Crescent game, I propose the following rules
>for "The Biggest Number Game" (as my brother calls it).

Who decides whose number is bigger? It might not be that easy.
For example:[10^(10^(10^(10^(^10^(10^10)))))] versus (10!)! or something
conceivably much worse that this.

adam
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers)
Subject: Re: The Biggest Number Game
Originator: neilb@csparc2
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:24:50 GMT

In article <BxK7xo.Eyo@math.uwaterloo.ca> tjdonald@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Toby Donaldson) writes:
>Here's a game I used to play with my little brother. We'd each write a number 
>down on a piece of paper, and whoever wrote down the biggest number was the 
>winner. 

This reminded me of Footsteps, which has apparently been marketed as Quo Vadis.

The board is as below:
                                     |
                                     |
    +-----+   +-----+   +-----+   +-----+   +-----+   +-----+   +-----+
    |     |   |     |   |     |   | /-\ |   |     |   |     |   |     |
 A  |     |   |     |   |     |   | |X| |   |     |   |     |   |     | B
    |     |   |     |   |     |   | \-/ |   |     |   |     |   |     |
    +-----+   +-----+   +-----+   +-----+   +-----+   +-----+   +-----+
                                     |
                                     |

The two players A and B sit at opposite ends of the row.  At the start of
the game a token is placed in the central square, and each player starts
off with 50 points.

At each move both player writes down the number of points to expend on
that move.  The player who wrote the highest number moves the token
one space towards (him|her)self, and both players subtract the number
of points from the current total.

The aim of the game is to get the token to the square closest to you.
If one player runs out of points, the other can keep making moves.
If both players run out, then a draw or half victory can be declared.

The game can obviously be varied by changing the number of squares
and starting points.

Neil
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Othello Puzzle #2
Date: 12 Nov 92 11:05:29 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

cmspring@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Colin Springer) writes:

>Othello Puzzle #2:

>  a b c d e f g h
>1 . o o o o o o .
>2 o . o o o o . .
>3 o o x o o o . .
>4 o o o o x o . x
>5 o o o o x x x .
>6 o o x x x x . .
>7 . . x . . . . .
>8 . . . . . . . . 

>White (o) to play and win decisively ... where would YOU play??

The idea is to force black to sooner or later play b2. This can be
done by limiting his moves. A good move for white is h6:

  a b c d e f g h
1 . o o o o o o .
2 o . o o o o . .
3 o o x o o o . .
4 o o o o x o . x
5 o o o o x x o .
6 o o x x x x . o
7 . . x . . . . .
8 . . . . . . . . 

I'll not go through a detailed analysis of the rest of the game, but I
believe that black will soon be forced to play g2, yielding th corner
to white and then shortly afterwards black will have to play b2.
An alternative move for white could be h5. It gives one extra move for
black, but I think it will also force black to move g2 and later b2.

	Torben Mogensen (torbenm@diku.dk)
From: phd99@keele.ac.uk (Asmodeus)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Finchley Central
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:59:31 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

Hello all. This is a rather abstract game, which I blatantly remember
from a copy of a magazine called Imagine (I think!) many years ago. The
game is called Finchley Central....

Rules:

1) Each player takes turns in naming a London Underground Tube Station.

2) The first player to name Finchley Central wins.


That's it.
Yep that's all there is to it.

This one always confuses people who perhaps do not think in such an
obscure way that I do. Starting players will soon build up a formidable
lead in the points stake, leading, as always with Finchley Central.

Perhaps by the fourth game, and plenty of comments such as 'This is
****ing stupid!', the confused player will start with something like
'Waterloo', and from then on, the game reaches a whole new plane of
thought.

It is not the winning that counts in this game (which after all, is not
difficult!), but it is the STYLE you play it in - for instance winning
after a complete circuit of the Circle Line, or perhaps a grand slam of
the mainline stations is just SO satisfying.....

Thoughts please....
Ralph.

--
      .
              [Believed to be the smallest .sig in the world]
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: boutell@isis.cshl.org (Tom Boutell)
Subject: Re: Move
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 02:09:27 GMT

... (Brilliantly exciting first - period action) ...

In article <17460@borg.cs.unc.edu> palmerd@holst.cs.unc.edu (Daniel Palmer) writes:
>And that wraps up a thrilling first half, Tom Boutell has the clear lead,
>but his Wall-squad appears to be tiring.  Neil Bowers is still in excellent
>shape considering the choppy conditions on the lake and all of his 
>flap-backs are in opposing corners.  However, don't count Nathaniel Renwick
>out, if he can turn the catapult around and traverse the discontinuity this
>is anyone's game!
>
>-Howard Cosell

(Hmmm, I'm a clear front runner, could be trouble-they'll gang up on
me. Better open the second half with a different gambit.)

"I guess you could probably get a piece of chalk and draw a bunch of
squares and put X's and O's in them. But you'd still die eventually."

-T

-- 
Tom Boutell, boutell@cshl.org

Clausthaler is the best non - alcoholic beer in the known universe.
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: flee@cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee)
Subject: Re: Let's start off with TWIXT
Supersedes: <BxoC4u.KDM@cs.psu.edu>
	<1992Nov13.073054.2028@linkoping.trab.se>
	<1992Nov13.175344.10142@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:20:26 GMT

W. Douglas West:
> Not a draw at all!

Quite right.  I originally meant to draw the correct draw, but on the
awkward grid I made, the diagonals wouldn't work right, so I changed
the position to something I could draw, not noticing that the new
drawing was no longer a draw.

Anyway.  Yes, draws are possible on any size board larger than 4x4.
Build a draw by extending the arms of the "square knot" to the board's
edges.  Note that a chain of N bridges in a fan-fold shape can span
any horizontal distance between N and 2*N, by flexing some folds
between the smaller and the larger angle.

(Puzzle: Take a chain of N bridges and put one end at (0, 0).  Where
are all the places the other end can be?  Related puzzle: Given a
point (x, y), what's the shortest chain that will connect it to the
origin?)

How can we make draws illegal in Twixt?  Consider this rule:

A player is not allowed to make a move that completely blocks off his
opponent, if the move doesn't win.  So, for example, in
   .   b   X-_ .   .   .
              --__
   .   O   .   a  -X   .
      /
   . / c   .   .   .   .
    /
   O   .   X   O-_ .   .
          /       --__
   .   . / .   .   .  -O
        /
   .   X   .   .   .   .
it's illegal for X to move on the square marked "a", but it
would be legal if there were an X on "b".

Now, note also that it's illegal for O to move on square "c".  This
raises the question: does there exist a position where prohibited
moves are the only useful moves a player can make?  If so, then this
position is also a draw.  In that case, we would need either a
stronger or a weaker anti-draw rule.
--
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: npalmer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicholas P Palmer)
Subject: New Topic
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 05:10:58 GMT


New Topic New Topic

You know, Maybe it's about conceptual role playing games, or playing
darts on pieces of modern art?

In any case.  Have any of ya'll played
conceptual type games of any sorts?
(Not like Amber, no dice..)
We're talking no paper, no dice, just a GM and some people starting
a story and interacting and seeing what's what???

Nik
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: torben@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Random Tox)
Subject: Re: Game
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 08:00:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.051709.14175@news.acns.nwu.edu> jcc@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jeremy Caplan) writes:
>There is a totally awesome game invented by Douglass Hofstadter called
>NOMIC where the game consists of making the rules for the game itself..
>
>Can be VERY amusing...
>
>or VERY syupid, depending on who plays and what kind of mood you're in.
>

	There were some bits at MIT about it.. I hung out but never
played or saw it played. How is  it played and can you post the ground rules?



-- 
(C) 1992 by Random Tox and The Durex Blender Corporation
All Rights Available at the Door, No Reservations.

	"If this is the place for you, then herd."
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: akessler@bernard.ma.utexas.edu (Adam Kessler)
Subject: Re: Chess on spherical boards.
Organization: University of Texas at Austin Mathematics
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:48:35 GMT

>A sphere is isomorphic to the infinite Euclidean plane. Therefore you cannot
>map a finite Euclidean plane (i.e. a chessboard) to a sphere. Which is also
>why you can never get a map of the world right: you cannot preserve distances 
>and area at the same time.

The Sphere is compact and R^2 is not. Therefore you cannot find an 
"isomorphism" [=homeomorphism in topological terms] between R^2 and
the Sphere. Thus the need for adding the "point-at-infinity" a.k.a. the One
Point Compactification of R^2. Thus you could have map of the world minus
a single point. [The fact that this cannot be done isometrically is a 
geometric property, not a topological one.]

The sphere IS homeomorphic to the closed unit disk, if every point on the
boundary is identified. Thus the entire boundary "becomes" a single point.
This is another way to look at One Point Compactification. Thus, if you
have a closed unit square [topologically the same as a disk] with a chess
board pattern laid out on it, and said "Every point on the boundary of the
board IS THE SAME", then you would have a spherical chessboard. Thus if a
piece lands on a boundary square, then he is considered to be at every
boundary square at the same time. Thus it makes sense to talk about THE
boundary square. [this is similar to the Poles on a map being spread out
across the length of the map.]

Note:
1) One would have to create rules concerning how a piece reenter the
board once he has landed on The boundary square.  He should, in some sense,
reenter in the same "direction" and color as he left.

2) Notice that The Boundary square is both black and white (or neither if
you wish) since it is on both black and white diagonals. Issues regarding
this would need to be resolved.

adk
From: djoyce@black.clarku.edu (Dave Joyce)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Please, let's have no FAQ for a while
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:19:15 GMT
Organization: Clark University (Worcester, MA)

Since this is a new group there's no way there can be any Frequently Asked
Questions yet.  It's interesting to bat around a problem for a couple of times
to see what's interesting about it.


-- 
David E. Joyce				Dept. Math. & Comp. Sci.
Internet:  djoyce@black.clarku.edu	Clark University
BITnet:    djoyce@clarku		Worcester, MA 01610-1477
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203)
Subject: anybody know this game?
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:35:05 GMT

This game goes like this:

***
*****
*******

There are 15 stones total in three rows. You and your opponent take some
stones in turn. The stones you can take each time must be adjacent and
in the same row or column, e.g.

*** or

*
*
*

but not
*
 *
  *

You can take as many stones as you can in one turn.

The person who take the last stone wins/loses. 

What is a good strategy?

H. Yang
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract