HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: Traditional vs Simplified Characters
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:33:17 GMT

I like to comment on this issue from the science point of view.
I believe using less number of symbols to present ideas is a modern way and
more efficient way than using more symbols to do the same thing. 
For example, if one car is composed of 10,000 parts and another car 
is only composed of 1000 parts, then the car with 10,000 parts is bound 
to have more problems than the other one. Not to mention the cost and 
time to maintain these 10,000 parts. For the same reason, the simplified 
version uses much less total number of words (heard of couple thousands) 
than the traditional version (close to 100,000 symbols). So, in terms of 
typing, proof reading, printing, etc, the simplified version is far more 
efficient than the old version. In the days that time is measured as money, 
which one are you going to choose ? BTW, there is another good example 
to show the advantage of simplified version. I heard that the reporters 
have developed another much much simplified version of symbols for writing, 
so they could write words as fast as people's speaking. And a good
reporter must be able to do that, otherwise he is going to miss the
headlines. So, why don't we use simplified version for daily use to save us
time while let scholars to enjoy the traditional one since they have so
much time to kill every day.

Yi-Chieh
From: jcao@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU (Jingbin Cao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Improve your English
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:45:44 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

Helloes to ya all! :-)

	Let me give you a tip to improve your English. I always
compose my posts in emacs, then run them through ispell to get rid of
the mispellings. And while I am at it, I hit M-q to get the correct
line breaks.

	I think on every Unix machine there is a spell program. ispell
is better than spell and that's why I use it instead. The elisp codes
for the emacs ispell-mode can be obtained by ftp to
archive.cis.ohio-state.edu 128.146.8.52. The file is
  tut.cis.ohio-state.edu:pub/gnu/emacs/elisp-archive/as-is/ispell.el.Z.

Hope you'll find it useful.

Jingbin

ps. I think junk posts are ok. What is junk to me may be useful to
    others. But I just hate posts with bad Subject: fields.

pps. My sendmail program is down at the moment.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: usys@titan.ucc.umass.edu (CLARENCE J MAZIARZ JR)
Subject: Be a honest beggar!
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:51:09 GMT


>Why do you call them blood-carders? Does this mean that CCP has the right
>to kill 

    CCP has no right to kill innocent people. They did, they committed
    atrocities.

>and CSS have no right to protect themseves? 

    Of course you have, who says you can not have?
    But do not "protect" youself by cheating.
    You decide where you want to stay. Actually, who cares. It seems you
    think China can not do without you. Still dreaming? Have not you
    realize what you are now? You know it, I don't bother telling you.

    It seems there are so many Pan Jinlian's on net recently. They beg Xi 
    MenQing for ..., saying their Wu DaLang would kill them if they go back 
    home. After their Xi MenQing's offer them shelter, they even say 
    congrtulations to each other.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: Oct 10, Our National Day
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:28:10 GMT

In article <Bw126B.Ary@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)  
writes:
> In article <1992Oct12.154300.13909@news.acns.nwu.edu>  
usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct11.202355.24276@zip.eecs.umich.edu>  
cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu  
> >(Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
> >> >
> >> >>Why do Singaporeans do the same? Many of them don't think themselves as  
> >Chinese.
> >> >
> >> >Even I don't think THEY are chinese, most of them are only a sort of 
> >> >"RUNNING DOG" who like only to speak English and pretend not  
understanding
> >> >Chinese.   :(
> >> >
> >> 
> >> This is outrageous. I know many Singaporeans indeed don't know how to  
speak
> >> Chinese.  Why should Singaporeans must know Chinese ?
> >> Do you know how many second generation Chinese born in U.S. can't speak
> >> Chinese ? Are they running dog ?
> >> 
> >> Yi-Chieh
> >
> >Well, according to Shi Chunde's opinion, they are Banana, which might be  
worse  
> >than "running dogs". Immigration usually is a shameful thing according to  
some  
> >"patriots".
> >
> >Carl
> Carl, Why are you keeping nagging me? I am not so "attractive"! 
> Can you forget about me? I do not even know about "my" opinion above.

In fact, to me, you are one phenomenon, just like Shannon is another phenomenon  
too. If you don't like, I will not use your name. Instead, I will use SCD as  
the name of this phenomenon. I can leave you alone. But I am afraid I can't  
leave SCD phenomenon alone.

Carl
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From:   (L. John Liang)
Subject: Automation Engineers Job Opening
Organization: Motorola Inc.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:39:16 GMT

Motorola Job Openings

Motorola is forming an entrepreneurial automation center in Singapore.   Beginning in 
January 1993, it will serve Motorola factories in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Korea, Japan,
 Malaysia, Manila, and Singapore.  This Center will design and build robotic workstations
 with vision; implement CIM (Computer Integrated Manufacturing) software; and do 
factory simulation and modeling.  Similar centers are already operational in the U.S. 
and Scotland.

Candidates for these permanent positions in Singapore should have a masters degree in
 mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, computer science, or operations 
research/industrial engineering, with in-depth training in robotics, CIM, or simulation.  
 Industrial experience is a plus.  Very competitive salary and benefits.

Send resumes by mail to:

Peggy Eastwood
Motorola Inc.
IL01, Fourth Floor
1303 E. Algonquin Rd.
Schaumburg, Illinois 60196

Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:27841 soc.culture.taiwan:14377 soc.culture.hongkong:12533
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: Re: Oct. 1 or Oct. 10, which is the more important day for China?
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:20:40 GMT
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <1992Oct13.230622.1772@leland.Stanford.EDU>, claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
> 
> Under Chiang Kai-shek, there was minimal freedom of speech.  I call
> that a form of slavery.

	** What do you mean by "minimum"?

	   I would call it to be "next to maximum".
	   Which is indeed, pretty good. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: jim@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Oct 1, our National Day
Date: 9 Oct 92 12:40:33 +1000
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

In article <1992Oct2.23955.16231@ms.uky.edu>, gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li) writes:
> "The world has changed..."
> In the past 200 years, military power was very important. You use the power
> to invade, to control, to rob, to distroy, to capture the market, to build
> your business everywhere, to do everything you want, of cause you also need to 
> build up your economy. China lost almost every chance of these, and did not
> have a little taste of the power. Are those things bad? Depends on who you are.
> Look at today's Japan and Germany.
> Today, you do not need the old way. The important thing is the economical
> power. You can use the power to enter a country, to control, to buy, to distory,
> to capture the market, to build up your business everywhere, to do everything
> you want, and it is clear now that the important thing is to build up your
> economy. See any difference between now and then?
> What is the new meaning of independence? Do you see any chance now for China
> to get those opportunities, to get a little taste of the power, to march Chinese
> army to the world, to do everything those superpowers can do, to get
> independent, to win the new world war in the world market?
> WHERE IS CHINESE ARMY NOW?  ------>  SOUTH CHINA SEA
> WHO CARES?                  ------------->OURSELVES
> WHERE IS TALK.BUSINESS.CHINA?    -------->TAIWAN
 MORE   WHERE IS TALK.FUTURE.CHINESE!!

J
From: Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca (Sanyee Tang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Learn from Lei Feng
Date: 7 Oct 92 08:18:48 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

    In post <1992Oct6.150242.28614@ms.uky.edu> (6 Oct 1992) Gang Li writes,

> I think you could not really believe in GOD.  You can not distinguish the
> spirit and the real world.  Do not tell me GOD know how to use chop-sticks
> and speak Chinese.  When I say Lei Feng, I mean a model, not a real man.

    Did you confused me with someone (Li Xiaolin :-) else?  I don't think
I am qualified to be a Christian and have never claimed to be.

    However, I am over-qualified to tell you something about Lei Feng, who
was not that much older than me.  When I talk of Lei Feng, I don't mean a
mere mortal, I mean a stereotype personified by Lei Feng the First.  The
major
characteristic of this stereotype is to worship the Reddest Sun.  The "Learn
from Lei Feng" champaign helped to establish Mao's "absolute authority" in
the early '60s, which eventually led to the Cultural Revolution.

    In <1992Oct7.063613.9816@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> (7 Oct 1992) Chang-ning Qu
writes,

> Lei Feng was not bad.  He voluntarily helped others and behaved himself
> restrictly in good.  He was man with generous, nice and honest
characteristics
> (this kind of men are available in any countries) even though reading
> hard on Mao's works (looks a bit of ridiculous today, but maybe in 1960's
> was common in China).

    No, to read Mao's book piously was not common in China before "Learn
from Lei Feng" campaign.  Only after this campaign cropped up with CCP's
blessing, people began to call Mao's book "The Food, The Weapon, The Steering
Wheel" and went to buy the newly published "Selected Works of Mao Zedong"
(Vol. IV) in long lines.  That is the primary thrust of this campaign.

    Looks like you two's memory of Lei Feng comes from do-good stories read
to you by teachers, maybe in grade 5.  What about a bit of historical sense
from an older netter?

> Otherwise who should we learn from?  Yesterday's Red Guards?  Or today's
> D-fighters?  No, no, no.  We need Lei Feng for his good hearted.

    You can learn a lot from both Red Guards and D-fighters, if you are truly
good-hearted.  Mind showing us some results of your learning from Lei Feng
for his "generous, nice and honest" characters?  Does it mean to call others'
posts "garbage"?

    By the way, Chinese history doesn't start from the Red Guards.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha)
Subject: Re: What do I think about the "Protection Bill" ?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 11:35:14 GMT

In article <7494@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> kzest+@pitt.edu (Ke Zeng) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.155334.26286@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>>In article <Bvy4Cs.6I8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong) writes:
>>>
>....
>>
>>	The silent beneficiaries of the Protection Act do not have to get
>>on the bus. They can refuse to get green cards under it. Once they do
>>however, they are taking a moral stand on the issue.
>>
>>	To continue the bus analogy, the bus was stolen. Anyone who takes
>>a ride on the bus knowing it was stolen is just as responsible (at least
>>morally) as those who did the actual stealing.
>
>	Not a good anology. The bus did not come from stealing. The bus
>did not belong to anybody before it became a "bus" and a lot eligible
>riders have been fighting to create this bus. 
>... 
>  K. Zeng University of Pittsburgh (412)624-3219 bitnet: kzest@pittvms
>  internet: kzest@unix.cis.pitt.edu  or  kzest@vms.cis.pitt.edu

When a massacre occurs, a lot sympathy goes out from almost everyone who 
hears about it. This is certainly true about the Tiananmen Massacre in the
U.S. The massacre got almost as much attention (for a few days) as the Gulf
War: there were round the clock updates and special reports which broke into
regular programming. So the U.S. felt like it should do something to help
out.

But the good will of the U.S. is a limited commodity. Instead of using the
massacre to pressure the U.S. to put pressure on the CCP for human rights
improvements within China, almost all the attention was focussed on granting
freedom for the Chinese in the U.S. (who I believe are really in no more
difficulty than any other Chinese in China--except for a limited few). So
now the U.S. has done its part. All the capital available was used up 
fighting for this bill.

The CSS in the U.S. should have said, "We don't want protection! We want 
the human rights situation improved in China so that we can return to China."
Such a move would have put the pressure on Bush to veto MFN, or to make some
other significant move concerning human rights in China. 

So the bus was stolen from the people who really need the help of foreign
countries like the U.S.: those who are fighting for democracy in China.

To go from one analogy to another, in English we say, "you stole their 
thunder". You took all the good will they generated through their sacrifice 
on 6/4 and used it for your own good.
From: stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: ROC vs PRC
Date: 7 Oct 1992 23:04:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: stevelin

In article <BvrLAC.AwC@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan) writes:
>>
>>According to the late reports:
The report came on newspaper in last week.
>>
>>ROC GNP:10000 U$      P'ROC GNP 400 U$
>>Foreign exchange reserve:
>>ROC: 90 B U$	 P'ROC: 40 B U$
>>
>This might not be a correction. It is from Fortune.
>GNP of Taiwan is 6600 U$,  PROC GNP 2000U$ (based on purchase power)
>I don't have it with me, those are just from my memory.

You wish, and I hope so. The world 3rd economy power in 210... century?
Hey, that is good, and could buy 150 Mig-31 or more to break the rock.:-)
But, whatever the number is, it is way way way behind.
>>
>>Chinese people are great, if the one drops P pre-fix.
>>Then China has the world number one foreign exchange reserve.
>>Just using the interest of those money will be more than
>>enough to pay Chinese children education.
>BTW, why not the other one put on a P pre-fix? 
>
If that happens, the P's doesn't belong to P, it is pronounced "PI".
And you know, a fox can not fool aound the world, it may, not any longer.
People under rock are much better off than those under P.
The rock cares much more about education (30% budget goes to education).


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: for your sake
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:28:09 GMT

In article <2AD99229.24089@news.service.uci.edu> yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon Yeh)  
writes:
> i consulted a couple of people, and they told me that the blood cardd for
> blood carders could not 100% guranteed.  And obviously, we 9201 people do 
> not like to end the fights right now.  (By the way, some blood carders
> used many rude words with me after they thought they finally got their
> blood cards.)
> 
> So, don't count your blood card as the sure thing.  We 9201 people will use
> whatever resource we have to bring this fight to the very end.
> 
> shannon
> -------

Shannon, you are not Ross Perol. Your resource is very limited. You don't have  
that such money for you crusade. I don't think CSS can donate more money than  
what is sufficient for your plane ticket to Beijing. Here is my advise. Buy  
some explosive and sneak into China. Bond all the explosive around your waist,  
chest, arms and legs and petition to enter Zhong1 Nan2 Hai3. I guess they will  
let you in without even a routine check because you have already been regards  
someone with "red root". Then, simply light the explosive and yourself.  
Baaaaaaaaan! Bingo! there is no Zhong Nan Hai anymore (you need to take some  
high-quaility explosive). Then you become hero (which you have been dreaming  
for quite long time) and martyr. The human right situation will improve and  
"blood-carders" will have to go back to China and regularly visit your tomb in  
Ba1 Bao3 Shan1 cemetery.

I personally believe this is a much better idea than persuading so many US  
employers not to hire "blood carders". What do you think?

Carl
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:28117 soc.culture.taiwan:14505 soc.culture.hongkong:12709
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: [race (people)] name of the Zhuang4 race (re-ask)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na 
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:49:41 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.155224.4646@leland.Stanford.EDU> chungdan@leland.stanford.edu (Zhong Qi Iao (Daniel)) writes:
>     [La nomo de rasoj povas s^ang^i.  Estas mire.  Mi scivolas, kiom ofta
>c^i tio estas.]
>
>     I asked why the name of the race in Southern China:
> ||| \ / -+- \   --+ \ / /  
> |+|  X  /|       |/  X     
> --- / \  +-      |  / \    
>namely:
> / -\- 
>/|-\-/-
> |+---+
> ||-+-|
> |+-+-+
> |--+--
> |-----
>was changed to:
>| |  |
>| |  |
>+-|--+--
>  |  |
>+-|  |
>| |  |
>/ | ---	?
>
>     How can the name of an entire race be changed?  Don't tell me that when
>the communists came, they artificially changed it.  I hope not; that would
>have been not very acceptable.
>
>						*Zhong* Qi-Iao (Mr.)

The above two words have similar pronounciations, so that's not a huge
change, after all, the chinese characters are "artificially" given
accordint the pronounciation of the minority races.  The CCP did also
do some popular changes like rename the city "DiHua" to its WuiWuEr name
"WuLuMuQi".
From: lix@nubian.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: 9 Cai
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:26:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boston University

In article <1992Oct9.141501.11796@linus.mitre.org> 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao) writes:
>(deleted)
>Thank you for your contribution. Could any one add more items?

Sure. My favour is  Liang-Ban 9-cai while my mother-in-law likes Sour-Hot
9-cai soup. In Liang-Ban 9-cai, it should be cut very short, while in
the Sour-Hot 9-cai soup, it is cut inch long - don't boil it too long, keep
it green, the smell is very good.

-- 
Introduction to The SOS China Education Fund (abridged by Lix)

The Fund is a non-political, non-profit and independent organization.
It was initiated in 1991 and registered in October 1992 by a group of
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:27992 talk.politics.china:1950
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Thursday, 15 Oct 1992 12:58:52 MST
From: <ASHZJ@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Remember it's a card of shame (Re: The Psychology of New Immigrant
 <1992Oct15.185100.7896@cs.brown.edu>

You sounds like a Saint, don't you?  I hope you did not come from another
planet and this could understand the reality on the planet Earth, i.e., a
creature here is NOT capable of anything.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: liqiang@kramden.nyu.edu (Li)
Subject: Re: Improve your English
Organization: New York University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:44:10 GMT

yfeng@tssmed.hsc.usc.edu (Jeffrey Feng) writes:

>Recently I spent some time reading some of the stuff in this news group. I'm
>very disappointed to find that many of our highly educated compatriats cannot
>spell and write English well. Of course, once in a while a spelling error is
>nothing to be alarmed about. But obvious grammatical errors are irritable
>when one reads those paragraphs. I surely expect a lot of people will say
>that grammar is not important as long as the idea is made clear. However,
>I believe that good writing skills are necessary in an environment where
>English is the language of communication. 

>By the way, there is a great deal of junk in the network.

My opinion is English is English - it's just like any other language. One 
should concentrate on getting the ideas thru and skills could be developed 
gradually.
 
I visited Shanghai's English Corner this summer. Interesting enough, I
met some old city slickers who had spent their whole lives "improving" their
English. It sounded to me that their most thrilling moments were the
occasions that they seemed to have bogged down a grammatical trick - usu 
a minor "improvement" of their old ways. They must have thought that
one has to learn millions of such tricks before one's English could be
respected.

Sometimes it's not really SUCH a long way to go.

- Li, Qiang
From: yndst2+@pitt.edu (Yong Duan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Poor Shannon
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:58:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Oct14.223323.16998@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c9c-ed@po.berkeley.edu ( ) writes:
 >Dear all,
 >
 >I am highly puzzled on why Shannon Yeh is so unpopular. I, while sympathetic
 >with those students who will get in trouble if they returned to China, do
 >believe that he has a valid point.  
 >
 >I think this situation bears a lot similarity to the L.A. Riots and the June
 >4th movement.  Now, if any of you did participate in the 6/4 movement, admit
 >it, there are lots of students who participated in it for the 'fun',
 >'glory', 're-nao', not truly for their belief in democracy.  Just like what
 >is said about Chai-Lin, and Wang-dan, these so called 'leaders' took the
 >glory and hid away when the major crackdown came. 
 >
 >So is the same thing for the protection bill.  So many of the students who
 >will benefit just want the damn green card, they don't really have the
 >'cause' behind it -- meaning, they are probably willing to say/do/claim
 >whatever needed to get the card.  And, why not, it has such a nice 'ring' to
 >it -- for the sake of 'human right protection'...
 >
 >Of course, what Shannon Yeh did, mailing to the employers and all, is not
 >that good.  But put your hand on your heart, and can you still say that he
 >doesn't have a somewhat valid point?  I think you all attacked him because
 >he candidly uncovered something you rather keep 'implied', not spoken out.
 >
 >And if you are one of the perspective benefitees, do you dare say you will
 >truly be 'persecuted' if you went back, while most of you probably never
 >laid a finger on the 6/4 movement?  Isn't this what is called the repugnant
 >"jian4-fen1-shi3-duo4"?  But then, of course, we are not saints.  I probably
 >would do the same thing, if i were in the shoes.
 
Can someone out there tell me who this guy is?
Next time he may say that students in TAM killed thousands of PLAs.
Just watch out.

Y.Duan