From: moore@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Hall Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Trolls' regeneration
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:07:40 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina

In article <torban.718514816@csuvax1> torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett) writes:
>alongley@cape.UWaterloo.ca (Allan Longley) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct6.005640.24176@ncsu.edu> mrmarcel@eos.ncsu.edu (MICHAEL RONN MARCELAIS) writes:
>>>In article <Bvo9Lp.CHx@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, alongley@cape.UWaterloo.ca (Allan Longley) writes:
>>>|> 	Is a troll alive?
>>>Of course its alive.  It eats, grows, excretes, etc.  (don't have a bio book
>>Grows?  Are there baby trolls?  It doesn't age.  It regenerates, but it does
>>not grow.  It doesn't need to breath, else you could kill a troll by 
>>submerging it in water.

As far as applying bio principles to Trolls goes, I don't think you can. 
For example, take vampires.  Dead, dead, dead; but they do *something*
with all that blood.  If vampires/other magical monsters "eat" but don't
do conventional biology, trolls need not.  Good point about not needing to
breathe (I think).

>
>You'll have to forgive my ignorance on the topic (I am not well read on
>Trolls ;-) but I have been dying to respond to this lengthy discussion.
>Either they are living animals or they are creatures totally of magic, if they
>eat food they must be part living. 
>
Eating stuff does not imply living.  See vampire point above.

>>>|> Are they immortal (they shouldn't age thanks to regeneration)?
>>>They can be killed, but they shouldn't have any inate lifespan due to
>>>regeneration.
>>Killed or destroyed?  Wraiths are destroyed, bears are killed.  Is there any
>>other immortal creature that is alive?
>
>They could certainly age *with* regeneration.  As they get older the
>regeneration slows done.  Just like humans and natural healing.
>As for reproduction are Trolls asexual or sexual? It would be possible for
>them to have one of these 'normal' methods if they were an animal.
>(And yes, before anyone writes in, Aphids can reproduce asexually.  So that
>method is not unique to plants)

I don't even want to contemplate troll sex. :)

>
>>>|> 	Is a troll regenerated from a finger a new troll?
>>>If you give it enough time and keep away from fire/acid.
>>No, I mean a NEW troll, as opposed to the same troll reborn to extract
>>revenge!
>
I seem to recall the Monster Manual stating that if you lopped off part of
a troll, the parts will slither back and rejoin.  If you can chop it up
into peices which are individually too small to do anything and keep each
piece in a separate jar, I don't think you'll ever get a whole troll.

>OK now we get to the good bit.  Killing a Troll and regeneration.
>Firstly killing.  I say yes to suffocation, but it may take a long time!
>All animals require O2 to live, and I would say a Troll especially,
>as it would need it for the extra metabolism involved in regeneration.
>Of course it could produce some anaerobic(sp?) source of energy to store
>for emergencies.  This would mean it could live for some time (how long?)
>without air (as I imagine the Alien from Alien would!) It would also affect
>the speed (slow it done, as energy stores get exhausted) of regeration 
>after much 'choppy choppy' (as someone mentioned previously)
>
How can chopped up troll parts (fingers, etc.) metabolize O2?  No lungs,
gills, etc.

>For a body piece to grow into a 'new' troll, it would require some form
>of magic (there's just no 'realistic' way a finger can gain enough matter
>to become a new troll.  This process of growing requires food ;-)
>Also it avoids the problem already raised (by another poster) of two
>'pieces' being left, how does each piece know which is the bigger, or what
>if both pieces are the same size?  So you must have some sort magic to avoid
>the scientific anomalies.

See above:  I think Troll finger needs to rejoin the rest of its original
troll to be any more than a finger again

>
>Two final points.  Poison to kill a Troll.  Yes.  Even with new cells being
>produced, the poison can remain around to kill these as well (just like the
>ozone layer, one molecule of CFC can destroy hundreds of ozone molecules)
>Psionics.  Kill no, disable yes!  People talked about the trolls mind being
>fried, reduced to "Food, eat! Food eat" but its still a psychotic killer.  Body
>movement is controlled by the brain as well, so if you destroy certain parts
>of the brain, you can disable all motor function!  

Poisoning a troll implies biological metabolism, which is not proven in
the case of trolls.  You can argue for it, but I would disallow it.
>
>Torban Bennett       torban@murdoch.edu.au
>
>Lister: 'Come on, what are you, a man or a munchkin?'
>Rimmer: 'I'm off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of Oz.'
>  - Red Dwarf

In summary, trolls are magical (maybe not entirely).  Don't try too hard
to mix magic with real world biology.

just my $0.02

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