HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: macallstr@V1.PH.OX.AC.UK (John Macallister)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: VMS license problem
Date: 12 Oct 92 08:37:57 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

I too have seen this problem with "exceeded usage limit" in setups which were
 previously OK. It began here after installing VMS 5.5-1. The solution is
 to modify the number of licence units. When I checked, the usage the limit was,
 in fact, being exceeded. It would appear that earlier versions of VMS allowed
 the limit to be exceeded (perhaps only in certain circumstances). I encountered
 the problem with networking products - DVNETRTG and P.S.I. .

John


                            +-------------------+
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| Name           : John B. Macallister                                        |
| Postal address : Nuclear Physics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH, UK.|
| Telephone      : +44-865-273388 (direct) +44-865-273333 (tel reception)     |
| Telex/Fax      : Telex: 83295 NUCLOX G    Fax:  +44-865-273418              |
| UK JANET       : MACALLSTR @ UK.AC.OX.PH (DTE:000050250060,IXI:204334505211)|
| UUCP/USENET    : MACALLSTR @ oxphv1                                         |
| HEPNET/SPAN    : MACALLSTR @ OXPHV1 (Node 19.151)                           !
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Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: jareed@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed)
Subject: Catastrophic VMS 5.5-1 upgrade problems...
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 14:40:18 EDT

 This is a plea for information from anyone who has upgraded to vmsw 5.5-1
 and seen problems similar to the ones below:

 Upgraded uVAX 3600 from vms 5.4-2 to vms 5.5-1. uVAX is boot node of
 a 16 node LAVC of vaxstation 3100's and 3200's. After upgrade, upon
 rebooting satellites, began getting "circuit down", "line synchronization
 lost", "circuit fault" errors continuously. Cluster members keep losing
 connection to each other, crashing, losing track of mscp served disks.
 Network is swamped with error msgs. XQA0 device on all q-bus machines
 (except one) logging errors, with boot node being most numerous.
 PEA0 device on all satellites logging numerous errors. DEC has been
 testing hardware, examining software, current theory is that problem
 lies in software drivers being overly sensitive to minor network 
 config glitches in new OS version. 

 If you have seen similar problems, please write to me asap at:

 jareed@rodan.acs.syr.edu

 or call me if you are close -

 Judith Reed
 (315) 443-5995
 Syracuse University High Energy Physics
 Syracuse, N.Y. 

 Many thanks!!!
From: jeh@cmkrnl.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Bug in VAX C getenv (was: sys$trnlnm from vaxc example please)
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:40:46 GMT
Organization: Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego, CA

In article <1992Oct12.105346.20@dcs.simpact.com>, jmeinke@dcs.simpact.com writes:
> In article <9210090753.AA02996@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, 
> ROSSJI@JS-JTF.AF.MIL ("Jim Ross") writes:
>> Does anyone have an example of setting up the descriptor and calling
>> sys$trnlnm from vaxc? We have examples of calling system services but
> 
> The system service sys$trnlnm contains many options, so I'm
> watching for someone to post a good, complete example. Until
> then, here's an example code segment which uses the function
> getenv, which performs logical name translation: it's also
> portable. 
> [...]

It is my understanding that getenv() in the VAX C RTL has a bug (nah, can't
be! :-) wherein it allocates a small amount of memory and never releases it.
So if you do LOTS of these (probably close to millions) you risk running out
of malloc()-able space.  Has this been fixed?

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA
uucp 'g' protocol guru and release coordinator, VMSnet (DECUS uucp) W.G., and 
Chair, VMS Programming and Internals Working Group, U.S. DECUS VAX Systems SIG 
Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, hanrahan@eisner.decus.org, or jeh@crash.cts.com
Uucp:  ...{crash,eisner,uunet}!cmkrnl!jeh
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: jweiss@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jerry Weiss)
Subject: Re: What is 1,024 Tera?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Distribution:  world
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:44:54 GMT

In article <01GPYMV16B1E001QIH@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu> PKLAMMER@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU (Pete Klammer CU-Denver 303/233-9485) writes:
>
>May I nominate another:
>2^64	alpha	A
>... the last, largest address space man may ever need...
 
     Never, never underestimate the need for more address space......

Jerry S. Weiss	  "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the antimatter!"
j-weiss@nwu.edu    Dept. Medicine, Northwestern Univ. Medical School
From: leichter@lrw.com (Jerry Leichter)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Callable Notes question.
Date: 15 Oct 92 11:53:10 GMT
Organization: The Internet


	>> If it DOESN'T exist in callable notes itself, how would you go
	>> about forging such an identity?
	>> 
	> Well, its just the user name from the process header, plus
	> SYS$NODE...

	Not exactly.  Most likely it's the SCCS node name and retrieved from
	GETSYI.  If you change SYS$NODE and attempt a post to a topic, you
	STILL get the right node name.

While this is possible, I'd bet that NOTES is looking for an exec-mode
translation of SYS$NODE.  (Non-clustered systems often didn't have a SCCS
node name defined until V5.0.  These days, the DECnet configuration procedure
normally forces your SCCS node name and DECnet node name to agree, so this has
become rare.  NOTES, however, long pre-dates VMS V5.0, and it's unlikely any-
one would have a reason to change this particular bit of coding.

							-- Jerry
From: rankin@eql.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Opening 20+ files in VMS C!!!!!?
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:54:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: eql10.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Oct12.092741.3273@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>,\
 csccm@luxury.latrobe.edu.au (Chris Miles!!) writes...
> OK, I've got a program that has to have about 25 files open at once and is
> writing to most of them..... [ This is with VAX C ] ... The trouble is the
> first 5 files end up completely empty - so nothing is being written to them!!
> I was told you were only allowed to have 20 files open with VAX C at once...
> And what I want to know is if you can somehow get around this????!

     You were told wrong; there is no such limit imposed by VAX C.  I just
ran a simple test that opened 50 files in a loop, then wrote something to
each of them in another loop, then closed them in a third loop.  All 50
files were open simultaneously--or at least VAXCRTL arranged to behave as
if they were--and all ended up with the proper contents.

     VAX C's <stdio.h> has a macro named _NFILE with a value of 20, but
it's not used for anything as far as I can tell.  Internally, VAXCRTL
allocates resources for files in groups of 15 and chains those together
if more than one group is needed.

     The number of open files is primarily limited by the username-specific
SYSUAF value FILLM for each user and the system-wide SYSGEN parameter
CHANNELCNT.  (PQL_MFILLM is also pertinent, perhaps others as well.)
However if you had hit one of those limits, subsequent open attempts would
have failed rather than siliently clobbering previously open files.  A bug
in your program source seems like the most likely culprit.

		Pat Rankin, rankin@eql.caltech.edu
Xref: sparky comp.os.vms:16262 vmsnet.sources.d:634
From: goathunter@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,vmsnet.sources.d
Subject: Re: Is there pkzip/pkunzip for VMS
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:49:42 CDT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

In article <7OCT92.16195564@wl.aecl.ca>, driverp@wl.aecl.ca writes:
> Is pkzip/pkunzip avalible for VMS ? If so, where.
> 
Once again....

PKZIP and PKUNZIP are not available for VMS.  However, Zip and UnZip,
from the Info-Zip group, are available for VMS.

You can get them via e-mail by sending the following commands in the
body of a mail message to FILESERV@WKUVX1.BITNET:

SEND ZIP-UNZIP
SEND FILESERV_TOOLS

They're also available via anonymous ftp from white.cerritos.edu, and
from ftp.spc.edu, whenever it comes back on-line.

Hunter
------
Hunter Goatley, VMS Systems Programmer, Western Kentucky University
goathunter@WKUVX1.BITNET, 502-745-5251
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: scanlan@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (B. Scanlan)
Subject: DCL create/terminal information
Organization: UTCS Public Access
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:57:57 GMT

I am in need of some information regarding the create/terminal DCL command.
I wish to find the window ID that is associated the window resulting from this
command. But since the Xserver may be on a separate machine, I wish to query 
the DECterm process and not the Xserver. 

As an added bonus if I use the /detached option I would like to find othe pid
of the resulting process.  I would use the VMS manuals but I'm a newcomer to 
my company "I dont't know" has the manuals and I can't find him/her.

Thanks

Bruce Scanlan
Promis Systems Corporation
Toronto, Canada
scanlan@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca


Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: driverp@wl.aecl.ca
Subject: Is there pkzip/pkunzip for VMS
Organization: AECL RESEARCH
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:19:55 GMT

Is pkzip/pkunzip avalible for VMS ? If so, where.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul A. Driver                             ||
Atomic Energy of Canada - Whiteshell Labs  ||
Pinawa, Manitoba, Canada                   ||
Internet: driverp@wl.aecl.ca               ||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: klein@saturn.glassboro.edu (BRUCE KLEIN)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Directory routines for VAX C
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:14:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Glassboro State College

Does anyone have a set routines for listing the files in a directory
in VAX C that they'd like to mail to me? I've a few things myself
but I appear to be missing the mark.


Thanks,

Bruce Klein
Network Specialist
Rowan College of New Jersey
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: karcher@jevex.waisman.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: RE: Catastrophic VMS 5.5-1 upgrade problems...
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:19:14 GMT
Organization: Waisman Center, University of Wisconsin-Madison

In a previous article, jareed@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed) wrote:
> Upgraded uVAX 3600 from vms 5.4-2 to vms 5.5-1. uVAX is boot node of
> a 16 node LAVC of vaxstation 3100's and 3200's. After upgrade, upon
> rebooting satellites, began getting "circuit down", "line synchronization
> lost", "circuit fault" errors continuously. Cluster members keep losing
> connection to each other, crashing, losing track of mscp served disks.
> Network is swamped with error msgs. XQA0 device on all q-bus machines
> (except one) logging errors, with boot node being most numerous.
> PEA0 device on all satellites logging numerous errors. 

Check the revision levels on your DELQA's. At VMS 5.4-3 a DELQA on a 
3600 (or VS3200) must be at D3 or higher.


Carl Karcher                          Internet: KARCHER@WAISMAN.WISC.EDU
Waisman Center                        Bitnet:   KARCHER@WISCMACC
University of Wisconsin-Madison       PSTnet:   (608) 263-5896
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: sday@fornax.unm.edu (Stephen F. Day   UNM CIRT)
Subject: Re: Looking for VT Terminal Emulation Software
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 21:22:00 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque NM
Reply-To: sday@ariel.unm.edu

> From article <01GP5UWFRJPU0020I5@utrcgw.utc.com>, by DYERFDF@hsdwl.utc.com ("Frank  Dyer x9568 ..Electrical Design", Chip):
> 
> Netters:
> 
>    I am looking for a *GOOD* VT3xx (VT2xx last choice) shareware or public
>    domain terminal emulation package (DOS).  I specifically want one that 
>    can co-exist with PathWorks (DOS-VMS).
> 
>    I am looking for recommendations/reviews, and how to obtain these
>    packages - Via FTP would be best.   Platform: DOS 5.0 & VAX VMS A5.5.

How about MS-Kermit v3.12 now available via ftp at kermit.cc.columbia.edu?
It offers vt320 emulation plus some vt340 support.

-- 
    Stephen F. Day         (SFD7)  AT&TNET:      (505) 277-8499
    Systems Analyst/Programmer     BITNET/CREN:  SDAY@UNMB
    CIRT-APSYS                     INTERNET:     sday@ariel.UNM.EDU
    University of New Mexico       TECHNET:      UNMSDAY
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
#include <std.disclaimer.h>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: KERBEROS as replacement for SYSUAF
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:48:13 GMT

In article <16052@umd5.umd.edu>, bill@bill.ab.umd.edu (Bill Bame) writes...

>In the mean time I had investigated writing a custom LOGINOUT that would use
>Kerberos for authentication - yuck!  I think the idea of replacing the related
>system services is a much more elegant solution.  I would be interested in any
>work along these lines.  If we could get enough people interested we could
>do it as a group project.  I would be glad to do some of the work, but I don't
>want to do it all if I can help it.

LOGINOUT for VMS 5.5 has some sort of callouts for user-supplied
authentication.  I don't know if they're fully documented yet, and
of course you have to be real careful that you don't supply a security
hole large enough to sail the Queen Elizabeth II through.

-Mike
From: cczanj@vax.nott.ac.uk (Andy Jack)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: SHOW MEM displays silly value
Date: 14 Oct 92 10:08:53 GMT
Reply-To: cczanj@vax.nott.ac.uk (Andy Jack)
Organization: University of Nottingham, UK

Two days ago I posted a message about SHOW MEM on a VAXstation showing 512MB
instead of the physical 24. This persisted over several reboots but magically
went away when I did a backup/restore of the system disk. I'm still baffled but 
it's not a problem any more.

	Cheers,
	Andy

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cripps Computing Centre,     JANET:    cczanj@uk.ac.nott.vax
University of Nottingham,    BITNET:   cczanj%uk.ac.nott.vax@ukacrl.bitnet
Nottingham NG7 2RD, UK	     Internet: cczanj%vax.nott.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
(Phone: +44 602 513328)  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cripps Computing Centre,     JANET:    cczanj@uk.ac.nott.vax
University of Nottingham,    BITNET:   cczanj%uk.ac.nott.vax@ukacrl.bitnet
Nottingham NG7 2RD, UK	     Internet: cczanj%vax.nott.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
(Phone: +44 602 513328)
From: gezelter@rlgsc.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Help wanter: connecting laserprinter to VLC
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:08:46 GMT
Followup-To: comp.os.vms
Distribution: usa
Organization: Robert Gezelter Software Consultant, Flushing, NY

In article <4318@winnie.fit.edu>, karin@zach.fit.edu (Karin Nicholson) writes:
> Hello fellow netters,
> 
> I managed to get VMS 5.5-1, DECW$MOTIF 1.1, UCX 2.0 and WordPerfect 5.1
> installed on my VAXstation 4000-VLC.  Now, I'd like to attach my NEC
> Silentwriter 890 to the system and be able to use it either as itself,
> an HP Laserjet+, a Diablo 630 or anything else a VLC can handle.  I do
> not know if this can be done, but would be willing to give it a try.
> 
> Any and all info on how this can be done, if at all, would be greatly
> appreciated.  If anyone has done this successfully, please let me know
> what the secrets are.  I would, of course, like to be able to print to
> the Silentwriter from WordPerfect.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> -- 
> 
>  .-.|     |    |     | |    /------------------\   Karin Nicholson
>  |  |-..-.|/.-.|-..-.|*|/  < karin@zach.fit.edu >  VAX Sys Mgr @ Florida Tech 
>  `-'| |`-'|\`-'| |`-'|||\   \------------------/   Florida Space Coast LUG Chair
-- 
Karin,
 
Your should have no difficulty! The LC890 series fully supports 
serial connections. Remember to set the baud rate and PARITY 
correctly on the front panel. Make sure that the VAX is setup 
correctly also.
 
On the software end, there are a variety of PostScript symbionts 
out there. In the commercial end, there is Scriptserver from 
Graymatter Software (Washington State) and PacerPrint from Pacer 
Software. In the public domain end, I have seen at least one 
PostScript symbiont on the DECUS CDROM series. I have also 
recently seen a posting of a PostScript symbiont to this 
newsgroup (comp.os.vms). 
 
I have not had a chance to use the two public domain packages 
recently, but I have used the commercial packages for clients 
with good success.
 
I hope that the above is helpful. If I have been unclear, or if I 
can be of further assistance, please feel free to give me a call 
or send me an Email.
 
- Bob
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Robert "Bob" Gezelter                       E-Mail:  gezelter@rlgsc.com  |
| Robert Gezelter Software Consultant         Voice:   +1 718 463 1079     |
| 35-20 167th Street, Suite 215               Fax:       (on Request)      |
| Flushing, New York  11358-1731                                           |
| United States of America                                                 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: How much to charge for CPU time?
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford)
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:37:10 -0600
Followup-To: comp.os.vms
Distribution: world
Organization: MSUS

In article <9210151559.AA15063@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, MCMAHON@AC.GRIN.EDU
("McMahon,Brian D") wrote:
> 
> If your goal is, e.g., cost recovery (or justification), then you need to
> figure out what it costs you to run your VAX (hardware, power, cooling,
> licenses, service, operations, paper, and so on) and divide that up.  You
> want a formula appropriate for your site, not the one down the road, or
> halfway across the planet.  If you want to make a profit selling services,
> figure that in as well.  Look at your budget.  How much does it cost you to
> run your VAX?  Is that what you want to charge?  How much would it cost you
> if the accounting department doubled their disk space requirements?  Is
> that how much you want to charge for storage?  How do you want to price
> batch vs. interactive time?  These are management decisions.

One should also consider that if you are _selling_ the resources,
customers may demand competitive CPU	performance so the CPU tics & wall
time issue becomes critical.  Degredation of services is not well
tolerated.  How will you bill or factor these elements?

A customer might say "Hey, my prime time jobs are taking longer and
I cannot tolerate that, even with the discount you give me for degraded
prime-time performance."  And you are thrust into some interesting
commitments to new hardware.

> If, on the other hand, you just want some magic number off the net to
> present to the bosses, then Ehud's suggested charges are every bit as good
> as anyone else's.  ;-)

What does Grinnell use?  In the Seventies, they actually did connect
time and CPU time accountings.
From: CHENJUNEH@URVAX.URICH.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Help:How to hook modem with VAX ?
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:21:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Hi ! There !
I have a question about moden. Yesterday, I bought a new moden and I tried to 
hook my pc up with VAX in my school. But, what all I got were a "Bee-Bee" and "
Ban !" sound. I am a new-user. I don't konw what was that. Can anyone help me ?

                                           Thank you !

                                                        June-Home Chen
                                                        U. of Richmond
                                                        10-14-92
From: ARNE@ko.hhs.dk (Arne Vajhxj)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Passing variable length strings from Pascal to Fortran
Date: 11 Oct 92 17:53:49 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

> How does one call a vax vms fortran subroutine of the type
>       SUBROUTINE SUB (STR)
>       CHARACTER *(*) STR
>       etc
>       END
> from a vax vms Pascal program? How should the procedure sub
> be declared in Pascal, and what type of variable should be
> used in the procedure call so that the Fortran subroutine
> gets the correct string length.

I will suggest two methods:

I)

program z(input,output);

type
   string = varying [256] of char;

[external] procedure sub(s : [class_s] packed array [l..u:integer] of char);
                        external;

var
   s : string;

begin
   s := 'This is a test';
   sub(s);
end.

II)

program z(input,output);

type
   string = varying [256] of char;
   word = [word] 0..65535;
   ftnstring = record
                  length  : word;
                  header  : word;
                  pointer : integer;
               end;

function ftn(var s:string):ftnstring;

var
   tmp : ftnstring;

begin
   if s.length>0 then
      tmp.length:=s.length
   else
      tmp.length:=256;
   tmp.header:=270;
   tmp.pointer:=iaddress(s.body);
   ftn:=tmp;
end;


[external] procedure sub(%REF s : ftnstring); external;

var
   s : string;

begin
   s := 'This is a test';
   sub(ftn(s));
end.

Method I is easier to use and more efficient, but needs a high version
of VAX PASCAL.

Method II is not so pretty, but it should run with almost any version
of VAX PASCAL.

                                                          Arne

Arne Vajhxj                             local DECNET:  KO::ARNE
Computer Department                     PSI:           PSI%23831001304030::ARNE
Business School of Southern Denmark     Internet:      ARNE@KO.HHS.DK
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: SET TRANSPORT doesn't work for me!
Date: 13 Oct 1992 14:41:52 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Oct13.125434.10842@slcs.slb.com>, brydon@asl.slb.com (Harvey Brydon (918)250-4312) writes:
=>NB. With internet-like transports, SET TRANSPORT doesn't work for me either,
=>because MAIL won't let me enter an unquoted '@' nor a quoted address.
=
=SET TRANSPORT won't do anything magic for you here.  Really all it does in
=terms of addressibility is append the default transport string on the front of
=every address it sees (except if another transport is specified).  If your
="To:" address has an '@' in it, you need to put it in double quotes.  The use
=of SET TRANSPORT does not change this.  For example:
=
=$ mail
=MAIL> set notransport
=MAIL> send /noself/noed login.com
=To:   xyz%"user@node.other.stuff"
=...
=
=MAIL> set transport xyz%
=MAIL> send /noself/noed login.com
=To:   "user@node.other.stuff"
=...
=
=The double quotes are required in both cases.

There's a patch out there that obviates the need for the quotes.  It's in the M
saveset for MX (available via anonymous FTP from FTP.SPC.EDU).  The file you
want to extract from the saveset is VMSMAIL_PATCH.TXT.

Please note:  I am *NOT* endorsing this patch, I'm merely pointing out that it
exists.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.