From: metlay@PHYAST.PITT.EDU (metlay)
Newsgroups: rec.music.synth
Subject: Re: Team Metlay 1992: Screaming Into The Aether (part two) *LONG*
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:41:12 GMT



Once again, I'm forced to collect posts and edit them by hand. I'll be
glad when they get Pnews fixed on minerva....

Phil Galanter writes:

>What, no drum machines?  :^)

Not as sound sources, but we did use a Roland TR-707 as a sync master.
The TR is handy for driving MIDI and FSK devices simultaneously, as well
as sending triggers to arpeggiators. Very retro, but MIDIsmart too.

>Remember that mud is equal portions of wetness (water) and noise (dirt) 

Hmmm. That hurts my head. I need to think about that one for a while....

>|in a good word for the Korg SDD-2000, the only DDL out there other
>|than the LXP-5 that will synch echo times to MIDI clocks. I own one,
>Was this important because of tempo changes, or just not wanting to  
>calculate b.p.m. reciprocals and key them in?

Both. The lexicon tracks tempo as it changes, and the Korg actually
calculates delays on the fly and displays them, which saves time and
speeds the programming of DDLs that DON'T have such a feature.


>|In most cases, though, we relied
>|a great deal on internal effects processing for the synths that had
>|it. It's often quieter, and it certainly simplifies cabling.

>Quieter?  Thats the reverse of typical recording studio thinking...but  
>then I guess you guys didn't have $10K reverb units...

No, we didn't. The effects on some of the synths were really bad (the
VS's internal chorus being a prime offender, as was the VFX, but not
the K2000 to my ears), but in general it made more sense to use the
internals than to string cables to the extra gear.

>|... (my wife's favorite soap opera uses a
>|WS whenever someone evil sneaks through a window or begins fondling
>|someone who doesn't want to be fondled). 

>Just think, if they had an Xpander and your orgasm patch the plot might  
>have to be changed (not to mention panties)

*sigh* Here we go again. |->

>|But the K2000 is not first on my synths-to-buy list; that honor goes
>|to the Wavestation (keyboard or rack). The Wavestation speaks directly
>|to a need I have seen and recognized for several years, that plugs
>|into my existing setup and compositional style with little difficulty.

>Could you say more about this?  Couldn't one create wave sequences using  
>something like SoundDesigner and load them into a K2000?

No, because the point of wave sequencing is that it's capable of changing
pitch without changing tempo! A sample of a wave sequence will speed up
at higher pitches and slow down at lower ones, but an actual wavesequence
will not. That's the true charm of the WS for me, and the thing I'm most
looking forward to: sending a simple set of notes to the unit and getting 
a complicated, evolving sound out of it. Great for live sets.

Jeff Needham writes:

>Thought food:

>Next session , have each person just bring one synth(*) and have someone ELSE 
>pick from the stack which one he gets stuck bringing.    This should avoid
>everyone showing up with Xpanders.  Synth might be better defined as
>sound-generating electronics.

I doubt that (a) anyone would submit to letting someone else decide how best
they could contribute to one of these sessions, and (b) that everyone would
show up with Xpanders. In fact, if I were to travel to one of these gigs
with only one board to make a unique contribution, it would probably be with
a Prophet VS, because there would be at least two people who are much more
dependent on Xpander sounds than I am at the moment (Kurt Geisel and Dan
Barrett, although we could probably get Kurt ot bring his Polymoog....)

>Has this been suggested before?  I have a feeling it has due to 
>wiring frustration.  It sounds like everybody involved knows enough to
>squeeze majic out of just about anything that is thrust in front of
>them, so it wouldn't be much of a limit.

*BZZZZZZT* Wrongo! The LAST thing you want to do is have someone walk into
a critical session with only one machine, one that they are NOT intimately
familiar with. I bet I could get some neat stuff out of a K2000 if given
a few hours to tweak...but with the clock running and people itching to 
make music, you don't have TIME to fuck around like that. It is incorrect
to assume that we synth.gods (TM) can simply lay our hands on a front
panel, shake a bit and speak in tongues, and suddenly know enough to get by.
The new generation of instruments are dense and hard to get started on, 
unless you are strictly willing to play presets, live or monotimbrally. 
That was what we did with the Wavestation on Bandwidth, and that was largely
what we did with the K2000 this time around. 

If you want each person to have only ONE device, it should be one that they
know backwards and forwards, including (especially!) MIDI quirks!

Eirikur Hallgrimsson writes:

>In article <9208271936.AA04748@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>, metlay@PHYAST.PITT.EDU (metlay) writes...
>>2. BETA TEST
>>HALLGRIMSSON: Xk and Seiko DS-250 on stand. Three Rack Crates filled
>>with weird old instruments, including a Kawai K1r, a Yamaha TX802, an
>>Orla FM mosnter from Italy, a Simmons SDE, and a mess of Boss halfrack
>>effects.

>You are confused.  I brought no Boss effects to Beta Test.  All of my
>effecting was done with the (get this) SPX-50D.  That was an enormous
>personal sacrifice, by the way.  It is almost completely impossible to
>implement the Umbrella-Drink Synthesis Architecture with only
>full-rack devices, they're just not small enough.

No, it is YOU who are confused, Brother Hallgrimsson! You had the entire
rack of Boss effects with you the whole time-- you merely chose not to 
USE any of them, so that effects processing could be automated (and noise
reduced). And we barely had time for UDSA as it was, so don't pin ME
with the blame for your lack of Bossixes.

>>The Kawai K1r is the second most frustrating synthesizer I have had to
>>deal with in recent memory. The honor of MOST frustrating synthesizer
>>goes to the Yamaha TX802, hands down. Bleah! (Sorry, Eirikur, but I'd
>>almost have preferred having the Seiko there. ALMOST. I'm just glad
>>you didn't bother with the VZ this time....)

>If we had the Seiko, you would have wanted to re-cut a certain track.

Over my dead body, man. If I never see that box again it'll be too soon.
If the Beta Test sessions are released, "Frost on the Steel Viola" will
go out as is, noise and all. End of subject.

>Gee, you must have tried to set up a Performance on the TX in my
>absence. In my presence, this only takes about a half an hour :-) or
>45 minutes if there are several Phd's sitting (oops, make that
>jumping) around with their hands in their pockets.

The prosecution rests, Jeff. This was a prime example of someone who thought
he knew his rig upside down and backwards:

>Almost all the sounds from my rig that drop jaws come from the TX--people are
>so used to the FM cliches, that they do not, in general, recognize the
>characteristic spectra and behavior of an FM machine when it is playing a good
>patch. 

--because he could program it out the wazoo. But when it came to setting up
a reliable multitimbral MIDI setup in a hurry, much headscratching and 
cursing ensued. This is what Egon Spengler refers to as "Bad."

>You should have cut some teeth on the K5/m.  The K1r is much easier to use and
>it supports lower case.  Some things in life are critical.

Everyone has different needs, dude. The Xpander only supports caps, but
at least it gives you knobs to turn. Besides, if lower case is critical, 
why do you own the Orla and the SDE, both of which only have 2-digit LEDs?

>I would have brought the VZ, except that it is even harder to use than the
>TX-802 (much harder due to seemingly haphazard menu structuring).  And, it's
>character didn't really seem to be required.  Character?  Yes, Character. Just
>remember that as in people, personality defects add up to character. 

I know the VZ is harder to use than the TX, but I have yet to hear what 
people mean when they refer to its unique character. A bad UI doesn't 
make a synth unique, unfortunately. 

--
dr. michael metlay          \ My latest rule of thumb for buying synths is
atomic city                  \ deceptively simple: I will never buy a new
                              \ (post-MIDI) synth that doesn't have a full
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu \ graphic LCD display on board. Think about it!