From: collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: The Black Box, PO Box 591822 Houston, TX 77259-1822 
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:40:10 GMT

<KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>In article <1992Dec12.145948.923@blkbox>, collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins) says:
>>
>   Well Chad, I guess you need a small history lesson!  I dare you to name for
>me the systemic and LEGAL discrimination that was perpetrated on asians, jews,
>irish and poles since 1956? 
	First of all, there is no need to dare me to do anything- I am not
trying to be antagonistic here. I was a member of a multiracial fraternity
and these are questions we all discussed, unfortunately without much results-
that is why I am trying to continue them here. Please save the flame type
comments for Mr. Parks- he seems to enjoy them more.
	Second, it seems to me that quite a bit of the arguements I have heard
about the affects of discrimination on blacks talk about the whole of
American history, not just the laws after 1956. If we choose 1956, why
can't we just choose 1969 (my dates may be off, but I believe that is when
civil rights began- please just substitue the right date if I am wrong).
The further you go back before this point, the more laws you can see that
discriminate- everything from limited immigration for asians to laws that
forced the irish to shop at outrageously priced company stores and be
indebted to them for life, and their children's lives.

> I can name thousands of Jim Crow laws that were in
> effect until 1980 (and some later)!  Jim Crow laws were specifically against
>Blacks, no other minorities were effected by these laws.

	Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't the Jim Crow laws things like
the poll tax and literacy tests? If so, wouldn't that affect other minorities,
as well as poor whites? They may have been primarily against blacks to be
sure- but their effect would be widely felt.

>  The racial discrimin-
>ation is still there in hiring and other areas (see Prime Time Live, see almost
>any sociological journal...).  No one is saying that the white man owes us
>anything.  Nothing is OWED to us.  What is wanted is an even playing field, and
>unfortunately, the only way to get one, because of the racist ideologies of
>those who do the hiring (see Marge Schott) is to have such programs as AA.
>From an idealistic standpoint (i.e. in an Edenistic world) AA is not needed,
>but you and I know that discrimination still exists.
>  You are right in one respect, Blacks should stop depending on the benevolence
>of white people and get solutions on our own.  But by the same token, white
>people have to get out of the ivory towers and see what is going on in the
>real world.  Parks and Yoder should go to their nearest inner city Black
>neighborhood and see the frustration and feeling of hopelessness that many of
>my brethren possess.  How many of you have sat and talked to an unemployed
>Black teen fresh out of high school, who can't get a job to begin any sort of
>career because whtie people are afraid of young Black males?  It happens, it
>exists!  Theoretically a lot of what a lot of people say is correct, but
>realistically it simply doesn't hold!

	I agree completely with all of this... what I am trying to show you
is that the situation that blacks face today has been and is being faced by
many other groups throught America's history- it started with the Irish and
Poles coming over to a basically northern european country. Take a long look
at the laws dealing with debts and company stores/towns and I think you will
see that they were VERY similar to slavery in all but name. There has always
been a way out of these conditions, and I think they remain the same as
they were. I still remember seeing an old clip of a basketball game in the
50's maybe, and some guy commenting on how all the players nowadays were
jewish.
	The whole point is, that instead of saying white vs black and giving
a "history lesson" that raises hard emotions keep to your theme of leving the
playing field. That accomplishes two things-
1) gets ALOT more people on your side 
2) keeps it from becoming a group vs group issue.

	Things like quotas and race norming will ALWAYS cause bad feelings,
but you will find rather wide spread support for things like head start and
work/study programs. I think you and this country as a whole would see much
better results and much better feelings if you stuck to these sorts of
programs and the less offensive AA programs (such as recruiting in dominately
black schools perhaps?)

Chad R. Collins
collins@blkbox.com

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination