HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cjudd@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au (Craig Thomas Judd)
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 05:30:16 GMT

I thought I'd come in and give my view. Decided not to quote any other posts,
as they just get in the way and everybody else seems to be dealing with them
anyway.

I run a MEKTON-II game, in some very long sessions (overnight). I start with a
basic idea or plot, then draw maps (or at least have a good idea where things
are), draw the NPC's and write (or know) a bit about them. I know what the NPC's
are planning on doing, and when. Then I throw in the players. They have the
ability to warp the plotline in unimaginable ways, usually by killing people
who are supposed to be tough. But anyways, the plot is dynamic, and I have to
pause every so often (for a few secs) to gather my thoughts, because as the
situations change, the intentions and actions of the NPC's change. It's nearly
impossible to plot all the possible occurrences - you just need to know what
the aims of the major people are. 

I wouldn't call it 'winging it', since I do quite a bit of preparation. It's
just that I don't worry too much about things that don't go the way the NPC's
expect it to. If it weren't for the players, the NPC's would all have straight
lines to their goals. 

Anyway, improvisation is about not letting plot twists throw you, even if they
are unexpected. Anyone can run a fully planned scenario, but I think it is more
interesting to allow for quite a bit of leeway and unexpected events.

Yours unexpectedly;

-- 
   \/\ "Turn out the lights! Or do you want everyone for miles around to /\/
====\/\      know about our secret base?!" - Colonel, AKIRA Book 2      /\/====
=====\/\  WANT ANY MANGA ARTWORK DONE? Email me! (NO Anthropomorphs!)  /\/=====
      \/\   cjudd@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au      a.k.a. KUROTO Shiro   /\/
From: krelos@agora.rain.com (Neal Feldman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Amber Questions
Date: 31 Aug 92 05:03:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.Btu0pq.F6I
Organization: Open Communications Forum

I'm just about to start up my Amber game again, and a few questions 
have come up.  

Does anyone have an alternate sorcery system?  Does anyone have additional 
levels (such as exalted) for sorcery and the like?

How do you run improving characters?  Do you use the rules straight from the
book?

The abilities that are described under each stat:  Do you give each
character all of those abilities, or what?

Has anyone posted any Amber adventures to the net?

Are there any mailing lists or the like for Amber?

And finally, does anyone know if there have been any supplements yet for
Amber?

Thanks in advance.

Nancy Feldman, Neal's Wife
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.dnd
From: staats@athena.mit.edu (Richard C. Staats)
Subject: Re: Alignments
Keywords: alignments good evil law chaos mythos
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:28:54 GMT

Tammy, 

	I don't use alignments in my campaigns per se.  I use mythos instead. 
Most powerful characters, PCs and NPCs, belong to some type of organization be it
a guild, a church or a political type.  Most of these organizations impose some
type of guidelines on a character's actions, even if the restrictions are minor
(e.g. don't give trade secrets away to a non-guild member).  I leave it up to the
party members to determine their own actions with out regards to experience point
penalties for "stepping out" of alignment guidelines.  A cleric is still subject
to "toeing the line" with regards to "divine guidance" as is a paladin.

	So, why did I go to that system?  How does it work?  Well, I went to the
system, because the idea of catagorizing everything into nine gestalts seemed
like it restricted roleplaying too much.  I also never understood the whole
concept of alignment languages.  I still do have some "specialty languages" for
certain groups.  A mages' guild might have its own secret language for example,
and some of the larger thieves guilds have their own "silent tongues."  (These
seemed "cool", add atmosphere, and generally fit well into the campaign.)

	It works well.  The parties I have run have almost always been on the
"good" side of things.  IF the group did something less than honorable, scrying
and other means ensured that EVENTUALLY the group had the opportunity to receive
its "just" rewards for its actions.  Clerics of "good" type religions don't look
favorably on healing, etc. PCs who demonstrate "bad" virtues.  I still have "bad"
deities in my campaign, and I have frequently used the "if only you will do this
one bad thing then you can have all THIS as reward" tactic, which has led to some
very interesting roleplaying.

	All in all, the mythos system seems a bit more natural and allows for
more freedom in roleplaying.

	Helmsman, prepare for flames.  Aye Sir!

	In service,

	Rich
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: GMs: historical politics
Date: 24 Aug 92 02:11:38 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

In article <1992Aug22.044654.1737@sq.sq.com>, lee@sq.sq.com (Liam R. E. Quin) writes:
>>how DO you plan and carry
>>off a political style campaign?
> 
> I don't.  I don't like them :-)
> 
> Despite enjoying `GRASS', I don't like back-biting campaigns at all.

I guess we define "political rpg" differently. I define it as a campaign
with shifting loyalties and a highly active bunch of NPCs, and Lee seems
to define it by interplayer rivalry. I don't think interplayer rivalry
is very interesting in the settings I've run, though I reserve judgement
on Amber, and don't think of it as part and parcel of political play.
I'm looking more for advice on how to detail factions of NPCs, to
describe NPC personality and loyalty and to keep track of all that stuff
without going crazy pawing through notes or forgetting key information
in the middle of a session.

I make use of 3x5 cards with brief descriptions of NPCs, but don't know
how to deal with factions. Should they have their own 3x5 tin box, or
should they be filed alphabetically with all the other names? Anybody
got other good ideas?

                                 * * *

Of course there is always the possibility that you were referring
jokingly to the current backbiting political campaign season in my
country, rather than to RPG campaigns involving politics.

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
The more corrupt the government, the greater the number of laws -- Tacitus
From: dlaird@terapin.com (Delbert Laird)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Space Gamer...
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:12:08 PST
Organization: BBS

Someone mentioned earlier that the new Space Gamer was about to be
released...Any time schedule on when it will debut in the more popular
game shops on the west coast..(or for that matter...anywhere?)

OR are they only going to do it via mail-order subscription?

dlaird@terapin.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: CoC Campaigns 
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:04:43 GMT

In article <Bu0M1E.GLr@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:
>It's been my experience that if you have to fight anything nastier than
>a ghoul or a deep one (notice the singular tense) then the party is
>going about their investigations in the wrong way.

Obviously you consider all the Chaosium modules to be poorly designed.

>I try to plan, as GM, scenarios that long on thought and planning, and
>light on combat, if the party is doing things right. The object of my
>games is to avoid the monsters until you can shut them down.
>   IMO, this is much more faithful to Lovecraft's style of story
>writing, than guns and guts. Of course, sometimes the characters make a
>big mistake and end up being squashed into gooey chunks or chewing on
>their toes in an asylum someplace. That's where the horror element comes
>in. The players never know if they've missed a vital clue or have bitten
>off more then they can chew (or will be chewed by something they can't
>bite...:) ).

This style is ok for single runs, but I can't see it as a campaign.
If you are being "more faithful" to Lovecraft, the players are in
for major abuse at your whim, with no hope of defeating the eldritch
horrors they face.  I think that rpg's should be empowering
experiences and increase the players' confidence (after all, it's just
a game).  "Guns and guts" adventures are a good way to do that and
are good catharsis, as long as the DM emphasizes that in the end
players that live by the gun will die by the gun.  Combat should be
deadly, but the adventurers should have the ability to die in a noble
cause.  Staving off the assaults of Cthulu for another generation is
one of the best ways to die.

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
From: jlkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Justin Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: 4th ed. Stormbringer-what's different?
Date: 3 Sep 92 00:17:01 GMT


	Can some kind soul tell me what changed between the 3rd. and
4th. editions of Stormbringer?  I understand that some large changes
were made to the magic system in the fourth edition.

Thanks,
Justin
-- 
------->Justin Kim
---------->jlkim@ucsd.edu
------------->Graduate School of International Relations/
---------------->Pacific Studies-University of California, San Diego
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Alignments
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:35:00 GMT

I have a new topic if anyone would like to discuss it.  Alignments.

Remember Alignments from AD&D?  Well my gaming group has often
had heated discussions on alignments.  Now I'm not interested in
a flame war.  I just want some other opinions.

My definition of alignments are as follows:

Good and Evil:

As stated, except that the question arises...What if someone uses
evil as a means to a good end? Or vice versa?  Are they good because
their basic nature is good, or are they good because the object of
their lives is good?

Lawful:

Here is where the fun begins.  In my definition, lawful means that
you follow a code, not necessarily the law of the land.  A person
that will not eat carrots on Tuesday and will not break that even
if there is nothing but carrots to eat on Tuesday is a lawful person.
They will not break their own code, no matter what.  If I am a lawful
person and I promise not to reveal a secret you tell me and you then
tell me that you killed someone, based on my code I cannot reveal
that secret (provided keeping my word is part of my code).

Chaotic:

This person will do anything based on the spur of the moment.
I could have a code of keeping secrets like above, but seeing that
you have broken the law I turn you in.  I have circumvented my code
therefore I am not a lawful person in the sense of alignment.
I may be neutral, however if I turned you in for the reward then
I'm probably chaotic.  The true chaotic is someone whose actions
are hard if not impossible to predict.

Neutral:

This can be interpreted many ways.  I want to leave it up to you
all to suggest some interpretations.

I am also looking for other ways to devise alignment.  If you have
any other ideas I would appreciate hearing that also.

Tammy

lib1p@jetson.uh.edu

I do not subscribe to rec.games.frp.dnd

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: fudging
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 20:04:01 GMT

A neat idea which originally appeared in James Bond: the RPG (and as a
variant for Top Secret 1st Ed. in Dragon Magazine way back when) is Hero
Points.
   Hero points allow a player to alter a die roll (either his or the
G.M.'s ) which affects his character. The amount of alteration depends o
n the G.M., the style of campaign, and the number of hero points spent.
  The only ground rules are that the result the player desires be
somehow, logically possible, given the mechanics of the game and the
campaign universe and that the character can't use hero points to
critically hit important NPCs or otherwise unbalance the game.
  As a variant, the G.M. rolls a die (or dice) for each
character and keeps the roll secret. The number rolled is the number of
"Luck Points". The G.M. can use the character's luck points to give the
character secret breaks (like not randomly encountering a Balrog) and
the player can use the character's luck points to modify die rolls, just
like hero points. The problem is, of course, that eventually, literally,
the character is out of luck.
   This system is equitable to both players and G.M. and with a bit of
restraint isn't too unbalancing. Generally, a merciful G.M. will use a
character's luck to help him avoid bad breaks rather than good ones, and
players will use luck or hero points to turn crippling wounds into
misses or minor wounds, or bad saving rolls or action rolls into good
ones.

Tom \|/
     o 
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Re: Different playing styles(was Improvisation)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 23:01:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.084517.12744@solix.udac.uu.se>, magnus@nexto.udac.uu.se (Magnus Ring) writes...
>I think it's time to move the impro/prep thread on to a playing style
>discussion instead. Could someone start this up by giving a good  
>description of the different styles (Hack'n'Slash, Wargaming, Story  
>Playing, Role Playing etc)? {.....rest deleted......}

This is a good idea I think. The problem is that people generally
play a certain style and have preconceived notions of other's 
styles.  I can tell you my perceptions of gaming styles.  Since
you asked for it I will.  However I get this gloomy vision of a
flame war approaching.

In our games we play a style that we call (true) role playing.
People really get into their characters and pretend to be them.
They don't say "my character is going to go to the tavern".  
They say "I'm going to the tavern".  They don't say "I (or my
character) casts a curse on him".  They say something like
"By the blood of my ancestors which flows in my veins, by the
magic of my craft which empowers me, may you look upon all that
you love and see your own doom......Kraganor!" (Kraganor being
a rune).  When two players talk to each other it is as their
characters not as themselves.  This is role play to us.

I have played in games where characters just seemed as props....
cardboard cutouts.  The players never used their characters names,
never talked in character, they discussed among themselves how they
are going to attempt something but they did it as players not as
characters.  In some, these players were bored or at a loss if they
didn't have something to kill.  This is what we term Hack-n-Slash.
We also have another name for it .... "Roll" playing.

I know I sound put-down-ish there and I'm not really trying to, it
is just that this style of play is not enjoyable to me.  I apologize 
If anybody feels offended.

That's about all that I have encountered.  Of course there are
those that lie somewhere in between.  But all seem to be variations\
of these two extremes.  

I would like to hear from others and how they feel.

=================
Tammy
From: markk@sagredo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Kampe)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: cluelessness in mystery games (prep vs improv)
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:31:51 GMT
Organization: SunSoft South
NNTP-Posting-Host: sagredo.west.sun.com

dzik@access.digex.com (Joseph Dzikiewicz) writes:
> I would add a third reason: sometimes the characters do not have the
> skills/temperaments to solve mysteries. 

Unless we are talking about a situation where the characters simply have
no interest in mysteries, I have found that the success of a mystery game 
has alot more to do with the players than it does the characters.  

Very few GMs are going to allow you to "roll" to solve a mystery.  The players
have insights and the characters pursue investigations.  The success of the
characters investigations will, of course, be related to their skills ... but
a mystery that can only be solved by someone who 

	(A) figures it out

and then

	(B) makes a sequence of hard rolls

sounds to me like a poorly designed scenario.  A scenario should not depend
fundamentally on skills that the party does not have (or cannot reasonably
get).

There are certainly situations where a particular character's skill pays
off big, but it seems to that most mysteries are solved by insight, creativity
and persistance. 
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: cloos@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (James H. Cloos Jr.)
Subject: SJG product numbers for GURPS stuff
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies, Ithaca, NY 14853
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 07:37:14 GMT

Can anyone tell me what names go along with the following product
numbers?  I'd appreciate the last 4 digits of the ISBN numbers, too,
if you know them.

6000
6001
6002
6003
6009
6013
6021
6024
6043
6049

6102
6103
6104
6113

6200
6202
6204

6400
6402
6403
6408

6505
6507
6508
6510
6511


Also, anyone know what numbers Mixed Doubles, Cyberpunk Adventures and
Vehicles are assigned, if any?

thanx.

-JimC
--
James H. Cloos, Jr.		include <std/disclaimers.h>
Cloos@CrnlThry.BITNET           include <std/qotd>
Cloos@Theory.TC.Cornell.EDU	Phone:  +1 716 866-5249
cloos@batcomputer.UUCP		Snail:  POBox 1111, Amherst, NY 14226-1111

--
James H. Cloos, Jr.		include <std/disclaimers.h>
Cloos@CrnlThry.BITNET           include <std/qotd>
Cloos@Theory.TC.Cornell.EDU	Phone:  +1 716 866-5249
cloos@batcomputer.UUCP		Snail:  POBox 1111, Amherst, NY 14226-1111
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: Dealing with the Uneducated
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:23:31 GMT

In article <pvanheus.715433486@frodo> pvanheus@frodo.cs.uct.ac.za (P A van Heusden) writes:
>I am running a RuneQuest 3rd Edition (+all the nice mods from the RuneQuest
>Digest) campaign set in Dark Ages Germany, AD 494. It relies heavily on
>factual data about the Germanic belief system, the social structure, etc.
>Which is fine by me, I love the subject. However, here we have the problem:
>My players do not have a background in this subject matter. This has lead to
>some alarming happenings, eg. a player asking, just as an aside "Do these 
>people think dreams are important?", having players with no idea of base
>social structure, etc. Has anyone else dealt with something like this? Any 
>suggestions for how I can get everybody into the world, and the mythos,
>in a reasonable time?
>Peter van Heusden              "Thou shalt not kill
>CS2 lab, UCT, Cape Town               Kill kill kill!"
>pvanheus@frodo.cs.uct.ac.za                    Ministry   

Have you considered a pre-campaign briefing with your players where you
fill them in on the campaign background?  Other methods I use are
handouts on the various important aspects of the culture. Essentially
information that anyone from that culture would know, possibly written
as the character might see it (...Thor is the God of thunder, when he
fights with the giants, the skies grow dark and it rains and there are
flashes of lightening and thunder. He and Freya help the crops grow...)
   Or, in the first campaign in the world you could have your
character's be outsiders, but have a friendly NPC guide who will fill
them in on everything they need to know. He can also warn them if they
are doing something really dumb ("Lucinus, you really don't want to
seduce the chieftan's wife. It will cause a feud if Froddi finds out
what you are doing and you don't have the oathmen to back you in either
a court case or a feud. Also, if you get caught, the chieftan's wife
will be put to death, all because you couldn't control your lust. Seduce
a slave wench instead..").

Have Fun

Tom
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar)
Subject: Re: Alignments
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-29709]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: News and Views from LSU
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:56:01 GMT

In article <37601@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes...
>>I guess the general feeling is that alignments are bunk, that they
>>always were bunk, and that they always will be.
> 
>It's an unimportant and nonessential part of a game, but rare is the
>D&D session where it isn't brought up.

	Actually, as long as I look at D&D as what I think (ie big opinion
comming up) it was initially made for, alignments aren't all that bad.

	Obviously some parts were silly such as alignment languages and
very servere penalties for moving even slightly out of you profesed alignment.
Additionally, the alignments needed for vary between cultures (but then
again, D&D wasn't really set up to play differing cultures).

	However, D&D seems to me to be a system meant for playing Heroic
Fantasy.  Games where all the PC's are champions of Good and all the enemies
are Evil.  Within that setting, I think that having broad definitions of 
personal outlook is reasonable.  The problem occured when the gaming world
wanted more out of D&D then it really could do.  When we wanted to play
grittier games, with differing cultures, flawed or dark heros, and more
interesting magic, D&D's alignments didn't work as well anymore.

	I will never go back to such an alignment system.  But sometimes its
nice for the saintly man of God to wave his hands and see the rotton souls
of the minions of Evil.

Dave
__________
Dave Bonar
eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
__________

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:12:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.210908.24997@ncar.ucar.edu>, urban@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Art Urban (PROFS)) writes...
>In article <1992Aug22.123422.17298@tronsbox.xei.com> dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:
>%	It does.  It HAS to.  Your whole argument is that GM's should cheat to
>%create a "pleasurable gaming experience".
> 
>I couldn't agree with you more, Dennis! Cheating *ruins* the game no matter
>on who's behalf it occurs. Once the players learn that a GM cheats/fudges, they
>will never know for sure when it is, and isn't happening. Ergo, players will
>be unsure if they *really* solved the adventure, fairly brought down the
>dragon, or skillfully picked the lock which led to treasure or some-such.
> 
>I refuse to alter die rolls, and i refuse to placate a bad *in-game*
>situation. I let my players know this ahead of time as well, and their sense
>of *true* accomplishment is ten-fold.
> 
While this idea will not work with most games, in some situations
it may.

At the beginning of the game the DM rolls a six sided die.  The
number that comes up is the number of fudges he/she gets.  Every
time the DM fudges they turn the die to the next lower number.

Now fudges can be done both for and against players, usually in
situations that really *WARRANT* a fudge.  Since players see the
die being turned they know it is a fudge.

Tammy
> 
>