From: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Reply-To: uunet.uu.net!weyrich!orville
Organization: Weyrich Computer Consulting
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 01:10:34 GMT

In article <BvtJD1.Knv@news.larc.nasa.gov> jka@windshear.larc.nasa.gov (J. Keith Alston) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.135553.10915@weyrich.UUCP>, orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich) writes:
>|> In article <BvnqGo.6yL@news.larc.nasa.gov> jka@windshear.larc.nasa.gov (J. Keith Alston) writes:
>|> >In article <1992Oct2.151211.18487@weyrich.UUCP>, orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich) writes:
>|> >|> 
>|> >|> Why do you think that only Union workers can negotiate? Everyone has the right
>|> >|> to "walk". The interesting thing is that companies that are most hurt by key 
>|> >|> people "walking" are also those that are most hurt by key people taking 
>|> >|> "family leave" at irregular and unpredictable intervals.
>|> >|> 
>|> >
>|> > Are you equating "walking" with negotiation? Walking out the door isn't
>|> > negotiating anything, its giving up. What do non-union employees have to
>|> > negotiate with?
>|> 
>|> What is different between a disgruntled employee walking out the door with
>|> valuable training, experience, and expertise and a union strike?
>|> 
>  As someone else has already stated, there's an order of magnitude difference
>  between the two. If I decide to walk, even though I may be seen as an
>  important part of whats goes on, it doesn't have anywhere near the
>  effect of everyone in my department deciding to walk at the same time.
>|> 
>|> So, to turn your question around, what do union workers have to negotiate 
>|> with, in the long run? Doesn't their short-term success mean failure in the
>|> long-term?
>|> 
>
> See above, union workers, all going on stike at once can shut down a company
> or even a whole industry. Yes, non union workers do have the option  to

Since they have to live in the country that contains the company they are
striking against, this seems to be about as advantageous as shitting on the
floor of your bedroom.

> walk, but I must ask again, what kind of negotiating tool is that?

One of the "benefits" that Unions claim that they have won for the American
worker is the Federal Minimum Wage, which is supposed to be enough to
survive on if you spend your money carefully. 

[This minimum wage is too high in some places and too low in others, but that
is a different thread].

So strikes for the purpose of gaining greater compensation seem to be necessary
only if the striking workers are already being paid more than their fair market
value [remember, they are already paid a subsistence wage -- if they have some
skill that  makes them worth more, then their fair market value is that much
higher than minimum wage].

If the workers are being compensated less than their fair market value, then
they can individually walk out the company doors into a new, better paying 
job. If they are over-compensated, then this doesn't work -- they have to
resort to threats and intimidation and even violence to keep other workers
from walking in the door they have walked out. I cannot support this.

The bottom line is strikes cannot improve the quality of life of the country
as a whole, they can only improve the quality of life of those that are
able to successfully put down all attempts by the unemployed to take the
jobs that the strikers feel don't pay enough. That lowers the quality of life
for the rest of Americans. And to the extent that their strikes cripple 
American business that have foreign competitors, strikers even lower the
quality of their own lives.

Consider for example nurses -- they are often undercompensated, but rarely
strike. But a lot of them have individually "walked" out of the hospitals
into more rewarding positions. The often lamented "nursing shortage"  in  this
country is NOT a shortage of nurses. It is a shortage of those that are
skilled enough to work as nurses that can't find more rewarding positions
elsewhere. But if their pay rose to $30/hr, then they would flock back into
nursing. 

[Note that  the above  is an  example of "successful"  individual walking.
So it CAN be done. Now if there are more qualified workers  than jobs, of
course it won't work. In that case, it is in everyone's best interest if some
of the workers leave the field and make themselves qualified in something
else that is more needed.]

orville

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Orville R. Weyrich, Jr.                        Weyrich Computer Consulting
Certified Data Processor                     POB 5782, Scottsdale, AZ 85261
Certified Systems Professional                   Voice: (602) 391-0821
Certified Computer Programmer            Internet: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net
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Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc