From: spwim@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Wim Degroot)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: Job (baan)
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:56:00 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug14.072648.27217@corax.udac.uu.se>, ignaz@astro.uu.se writes...
>In article <13AUG199213040690@mars.lerc.nasa.gov>, spwim@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Wim Degroot) writes:
>->I'd like to start another serious threat in this newsgroup, something that is


>I'm rather radical in my mind and would never accept a job under those
>conditions. Not that I'm 'proud to be Dutch' (what a terrible expression)
>but those kind of conditions you put forward are discriminating and
>against the people's rights. It may not make any difference if you
>are black, white, Dutch, American, male, female, bisexual, homosexual etc.

As far as I know, all countries that I have lived in require citizenship for
any government job, whether it is a social services, an environmental job or
anything else, whether that is wrong or right. Discrimination has nothing to 
do with that. A foreigner can not land a Dutch government job without becoming
Dutch first. Are Dutch discriminating against everybody not Dutch? I thought 
that the term "discrimination" referred to singling out specific ethnic, 
religious, racial or sexual traits or characteristics. 

> 
>Even under ordinary conditions I wouldn't give up Dutch citizenship since
>there SHOULD BE no need for it in this world.
> 

IF we lived in a perfect world, you are definitely right. However, last time I
checked, we did not, and as such I am trying to do my utmost best to change
this for the better, but still have to adjust myself to reality. I have never 
even considered changing nationality, since just like you seem to infer, it is
kind of 'blackmail', and if they do not like me for my job skills, I prefer to
go somewhere else where they do. However, that is just one type of thinking. 
I have met a number of ex-Dutch nationals who feel that nationality is just a
joke and as such it is easy to change, since it does not make you a different
person. And what is the yahoo about anyway. Try to compare changing nationality
with most women who get married and have to change much more than just that, 
their name for example. Is a nationality than such a big sacrifice? 

On a different note, the Dutch government is withholding the Dutch nationality
from a large group of people who want to become Dutch, just because of the color
of their skin or their ethnicity, while easily giving it to people that are 
white and closer to Dutch religious beliefs. My SO for example has been trying 
to receive Dutch nationality for the last few years without results. What's
even worse is that it has been creeping closer to US beliefs. I would like to 
hear your opinion on that as well as on the possibility that if the Dutch 
government does not discriminate by your standards, the Netherlands would have
an influx of several million people who would not mind living there and 
enjoying the social system. In a perfect world, that SHOULD NOT BE a problem.
But how will YOU solve that, economically as well as socially, based on 
something called reality, NOT a perfect world.   
_Wim.

>the Yeti
> 
>-- 
>Ignaz Wanders                 * Tel: +46-18-515208, FAX: +46-18-527583
>                                            --- Calvin ---

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