HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Getting to grappling range.
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:38:20 GMT
	<1992Nov15.122534.15871@nntp.uoregon.edu>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: toman@darkwing.uoregon.edu's message of 15 Nov 92 12:25:34 GMT


In article <1992Nov15.122534.15871@nntp.uoregon.edu> toman@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Joseph Toman) writes:

   In article <MARY.92Nov14084527@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
   >
   >In article <1992Nov12.154446.2702@ms.uky.edu> taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken) writes:
   >
   >>  I am interested in people's thoughts on how to get from kicking range to
   >>   punching range to grappling range.
   >>
   >>   Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I am fairly confident of my
   >>   grappling superiority against my opponent in a "friendly" inter-art duel.
   >
   >Well, I'm going to break your rule and snip the rest of your post and 
   >point out that, in a "friendly" inter-art duel, you'll beat me every 
   >time if you're a grappler.  Why?  Because I'm a punchy-kicky type, I
   >don't know any grappling, and the only ways I have of preventing you
   >from getting into grappling range are a)run away and b)hit you harder
   >than I would want to in a "friendly" match.  In the general case, 
   >can I keep you away?  Maybe, depending on how big you are, how fast 
   >you are, and how much punishment you can suck up.  Can I keep you
   >away without hurting you?  Doubtful.  So, yeah, you win, I give, uncle,
   >whatever.  

   Huh. I've always heard it the other way around. Aikidoists I know that have
   played around with punchy-kicky types say that because it's friendly,
   the p-k type moves a lot faster since they're not putting a lot of power
   into their strikes. So it's harder to move in on them. Also, the grappler
   is restricted to less powerful (or extremely difficult) techniques, 
   because it's not nice to break an arm or dislocate a shoulder in a friendly
   match. 
   So you as a p-k type can play a "point sparring" game where you don't need
   to commit to any of your strikes, because you're not trying to hurt your
   opponent. The grappler can't move in because they're not given anything
   to work with, and will get 'tagged' if they try to close the distance.

Yeah, I can see this.  The only drawback I find is when you're dealing
with someone who doesn't recognize the "points".  But, as Scott pointed
out to me in email, you have to presume reasonableness on the part of
both sparring partners.  Otherwise inter-styles sparring is useless and
counterproductive.  


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate Bullshit
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:10:20 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <74315@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:

>I imagine that we could expect
>a very good fighter to keep most of his conditioning as he
>grows older, unless he sustains permanent injuries, and I would
>certainly expect him to get better at the more mental aspects
>of fighting, such as timing, strategy, tactics, and so on.

Right, but while they may have a great idea of what to do, their
physical strength will be less (although they will be stronger than
their contemporaries) and hence their reaction time will also be
slower.  Their bones will be more brittle, and their body fat
percentage will tend to be higher (although this latter can
be avoided).  

Another point to remember is that a lot of older martial artists
are not full-time professionals.  One of my instructors was a 
great sparring instructor and taught me a lot.  But he had a job,
and he had a wive and kids, and he couldn't spend as much time
training.  Besides that, his reaction time was going down and I
was starting to get in on him, which discouraged him even more, so
now he just works on conditioning for himself, rather than sparring.

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: dudding@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (Dennis Dudding Avionic Grad )
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Time required to attain Black Belt
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:01:05 GMT
Organization: College of Engg. & Tech., Ohio University, Athens, Ohio

In article <4132@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> helmuthn@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Helmuth Naumer) writes:
>
>I believe after ordering, 3-5 weeks for delivery.
>
	:-> I am sure that I can get you one in about 5 working days...

	Come on...Its not the color that makes you a blackbelt.........
......train, train, train.  Its very simple, just keep training.

	When I was a child I wished I were an adult.............
But now that I am an adult (40), I wish that I could go back and
fix the things I did wrong as a child.  Your training will most likely
feel the same after you realize that you are a blackbelt.

	By the way I have trained in Shotokan Karate-do for the last
16 years under Greer Golden at Ohio University in Athens, Ohio.  I am
nidan ranked and also teach children at our towns recreation dept.

	I'd like to invite you to train with our club if you are ever
out this way.  We have a great group (about 50 regulars) and we always
welcome guests.

Regards,
Dennis E. Dudding, OUKC club advisor
dudding@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
				DOJO KUN
		Seek perfection of character
		Be faithful
		Endeavor
		Respect others
		Refrain from impetuous courage
A
d
From: richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Full contact no protection competition
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 10:57:57 GMT
Reply-To: parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Distribution: world
Organization: Masterful Enterprises UnLimited.


In article <1992Nov14.194356.19654@pages.com> kevin@pages writes:

 > Q: Does anyone know where else (globally) these competitions are hosted?

Hm.  Well, we don't allow hand contact to the jodan area at all, but
kicks to the throat are okay...  We have some down here in New Zealand.

 > Q: Does anyone have experience in participating in these full-contact
 > no-protection competitions?

Yes, I do.  They are not fun... ;)  Well, the adrenaline rush is
increadible... :)  Why do you ask?

 > Q: Has anyone (directly) witnessed the fighting in these matches? Comments
 > on the fighting, fighters, styles?

Well, the moves are kept simple - no one wants to do a triple spinning
back kick if their opponent is just going to sweep them.  You begin to
learn that a street fight may last longer than you would anticipate, and
lethal strikes would be needed to take someone down fast.

Other styles seem to do very well, as long as they train for it.  We
don't get too many TKD fellas along (one so far that I have seen); I'm
not quite sure why, as they have contact sparring in their doj*, right?

Don't enter unless you can fight.  After my bout, I wandered off.  At
the party afterwards, a nidan wandering around looked at my limp and
said there were only two types of people who walked like that:  rugby
[football] players and karate fighters... ;)  (Okay, okay, you had to be
there! :)

The fights are not rigged as far as I can tell - other styles fight good
or bad, and since the public is allowed to watch, they usually can tell
who is winning.  You do occasionally get a few "hollywoods" for
injuries, and the occassional "accidental - NOT" foul, but they're rare.


Later!

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Determining the winner of a "friendly" inter-arts duel.
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 16 NOV 92 12:39:59    


> Also, do aikidoka agree with
>Todd's assertion that the aikido methods of getting into grappling range are
>so specifically oriented to aikido techniques that they would not be
>particularly useful to, say, an Olympic wrestler who finds himself in a
>fistfight?  Precisely what technique do you think might be helpful?

Since the restatement is sounding a little more extreme than I intended
in my asstertion, let me just elaborate on my statement with an example.

In Aikido, there is a movement adopted from one of the classical
weapons schools that involves sidestepping a penetrating thrust and
staying extremly close to the opponent.  I think it's called 
hito_e_mi, or something like that, and is the heart of many of
the Irimi-type movements.   There are Aikijutsu/Aikido throws
that make particularly fine use of this tactical positioning skill
by breaking the opponent's posture on the way in.  This advantage would
somewhat be nullified if hito_e_mi was used to go into a clinch or
tie-up.   

The reason why I asserted that the Aiki tactical positioning skills
would be difficult to remove from their technical 'context' is that
the 'gap closing method' is imbedded into the technique itself !  They don't
(usually) teach it as a 'gap closing method' in most schools, as far
as I know.   If you could separate it out as a distinct skill, and
incorporate it into a double leg dive (for example), it would become
indistinguishable from a variation on the comparable wrestling penetration 
step.

Such is the problem with picking bits and pieces of well-integrated
martial arts.

						kind regards,

						todd
> 
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation		             (215) 354-1273 |
| Philadelphia, Pa. USA                                             |
|    'Reason is no substitute for Passion, nor Passion for Reason.' |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: George A. Dillman?
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 08:08:00 +0000

Steve Weigand (weigand@banana.cns.udel.edu) writes
>I've been reading a lot about a karate instructor named George Dillman
>in some of those cheezy karate/kf magazines. He has a series of video
>tapes about how to apply pressure points into fighting - a subject that
>continues to interest me.
>
>My question is: Has anyone seen this guy? Has anyone seen any of his
>video tapes?  Is he legitamate?
>
>You see, I believe he lives in my area (somewhat close to me), in
>Reading, Pennsylvania. I think his style is Okinawan Kempo, if I'm
>correct. I may pay him a visit, but I'd also like to hear if anyone
>has seen any of his stuff before going to him.
>
>Thanks,
> - Steve Weigand
>  (weigand@ee.udel.edu)


Yes, I've trained on one of his seminars and I have seen the first
6 vidoes. He is for real and is worth visiting. The people he knocks
out are really out and not all of the knockouts are on the neck. The
arm ko's are most impressive as far as I am concerned.


Kyusho Jutsu (pressure point attacks) are contained in the kata
and are in my opinion the real meaning of the kata.


Here in the UK Vince Morris is the "leading light" in Kyusho Jutsu.
I attended a course with him at the weekend, very interesting. He
is forming a research society here in the UK to collate information
about the subject. I will be posting the list after the weekend when
I have had time to type it in.


One word of warning - be very careful in practicing these techniques
as nobody really knows how or why they work (although some people think
they have a good idea). The reason that they were put into Kata in
the first place was to allow safe practice. From the weekend my right
arm is tingling and numb on and off (especially when I type - this post
is killing me!) It is supposed to go away after a few days, I hope it does!


The whole area of how to practice these techniqes concerns me, I'll be
posting after the weekend some reasoned arguments.


Take care.
Bill Burgar.
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Charging for training?
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:54:46 GMT
	<1992Nov17.131658.14523@relay.nswc.navy.mil>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil's message of 17 Nov 92 13:16:58 GMT


In article <1992Nov17.131658.14523@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - K31) writes:

[snip]

   To summarize, I am proud and honored to be a licensed authorized
   instructor* under the Meik Do Sy$tem (tm).  Say what you will about
   your dedicated and impoverished instructor, but years of study
   have taught us the simple truth:
	   The more you pay, the more you learn.

   I realize that it is unusual for a mere silver belt to be an
   instructor, but I bought, I mean earned my license from CEO $en$ei
   Jeff himself.

Stephen, I am one of the founders of Meikdo.  I studied Meikdo techniques
for many years.  I trained many Meikdo instructors.  Stephen, you're no
Meikdo instructor.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Iron Palm Training
Date: 21 Nov 92 13:09:45 MST
Distribution: world
Organization: Banzai Institute

In article <1992Nov20.233428.16277@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>,
   rob@austin.ibm.com writes:
> 
>> My only reference on this topic ("Iron Palm in 100 Days", by Lee Ying-arng;
>>  ...
> 
> Does anyone have the name of the publisher or the ISBN number for this book.
> Or even better, where I can order it from.

(I'm the one who posted this book reference.)

The copy I have was printed in Hong Kong:

	Unicorn Press
	P.O. Box  No. 2448
	Hong Kong

Another address on the paper cover is:

	McLisa Enterprises
	P.O. Box 1755
	Honolulu Hawaii  96806

As these addresses are some 20 years old, I can't speculate on the chances
they're still in business. Books in Print (at any library and Good Bookstores)
may be your best bet.

+---------+    Richard Travsky   RTRAVSKY @ CORRAL.UWYO.EDU
|         |    Division of Information Technology
|     U W |    University of Wyoming   (307) 766 - 3663 / 3668
|      *  |    "Wyoming is the capital of Denver." - a tourist
+---------+    "One of those square states." - another tourist

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: das@unislc.uucp (David Shorten)
Subject: Re: Counters
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:20:02 GMT

Andrew Michael Woodward (azw@aber.ac.uk) wrote:
: 
: From observations of experts, I reckon theres much hot air talked about
: street work. Sure, m.a. techniques work bvery effectively against untrained
: yobs. But then you spend hours a week trianing, and just about ANYTHING 
: will work with this imbalance. People who require streetfighting as a 
: professional tool do not fall into this category, they train very hard,
: and their techniques are tested by natural selection! They are ugly,
: minimalist and completely effective.
: 
: My view, and that of m.a. people I have discussed this with (some of 
: whom are GOOD), is that dan level and above has protective value on
: the street, but below this, m.a. training can be a liability due to
: an undeserved sense of invulnerability even against untrained but 
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: practised thugs.
: 
I've seen this here and several times in the Model Mugging thread...
I don't think I've ever met anyone in m-a that felt they had anything
like invulnerability.  Maybe I just assumed everyone was at least as
observant as myself, but after a few months of training I realized
that it would take quite a bit of training to overcome the natural
aggression of a street-wise punk.  

My question does anyone in net-land actually know of anyone who 
(especially a formerly meek person) who got a sense of invulnerability 
(or even an unrealistic overconfidence in their skills) from a 
limited amount of training (meaning less than a year at any sort 
of m-a or self-defense course)?

: The consensus was universally
: that if you come across a professional, you simply grovel and run 
: away very very fast and preferably simultaneously. I have found this 
: works very well for me in ALL situations.

Sound Advice.

Dave S.
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Navy SEALs and Jeet Kune Do
Date: 18 Nov 1992 20:39:31 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov17.233308.1@novax.llnl.gov> urbina@novax.llnl.gov writes:
>I was reading in an old issue of IKF that Paul Vunak is exclusively training
>Navy SEALs in his system of Jeet Kune Do.

I don't know what counts as "exclusive", but he is selling "Mastering Jeet
Kune Do" videotapes to the general public through Panther Productions.

-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: lyeh@alleg.edu (Hun Lye)
Subject: Jet Li and Videos
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:15:06 GMT

Anyone know where I can rent by mail or purchase videos by Jet Li like  
"Once Upon A Time in China 1&2" and "The Master"?

Please e-mail me or something.



Hunyeow Lye
lyeh@alleg.edu



"Be rooted like a boulder but flow like a river!"
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Armor & Gunpowder...
Date: 17 Nov 1992 03:28:34 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

Sorry this took so long to follow up on...that horrible thing
called work got in the way. Don't you hate it when work gets in the
way of reading net news?...;-)

I got the following from 2 books on warfare:

	1) Medieval Warfare by HW Koch
	2) The Modern Army by HW Koch and Ian Hogg


The main points:

Agincourt:

	I was wrong... the archers were not in forest, but protected
by English Knights and metal shod poles left in the ground by the
engilsh so they could retreat behinde them during a charge.  What
I also didn't remember correctly were the odds...9000 English VS
6000 French.  The English were mostly longbow, but had a healthy
number of knights also.  

	The French did dismount, but since the knights were wearing
heavy armor (mounted armor was heavier than foot armor) "they
were no match for the lightly armored English foot".

Muskets:

	I was correct, muskets were able to go through armor, and were used
in a highly mobile fashion. Even the earlier unwieldy arquebus was able
to penetrate heavy armor, but took two people to use.  Once the flash
pan was added, one man could carry, load and fire the musket, and in fact
could do so at a military jog.

	At first musketeers worked with pikemen.  The pikemen held
the enemy off, while the musketeers destroyed them from the back
ranks.  Soon instead of lines of each they formed brigades, with 
alternating Pikemen and musketeers. This allowed the lines to flow
forards and backwards and still provide anchor points. 

	Later, muskets were equiped with bayonets so that they could hold 
their own defensive actions.  Tactics such as I described in my earlier email
were used.

	Now... when did armor disapear (I remember this being the
lead in question to the debate, or maybe it was why)...

	Well the first arquebus appeared in the early 1400's (A guess on
the authors part, he said it was hard to pin point, but uses that as 
a "safe guess").  The first musket in the early 1500's.  Longbows were
still very evident in the mid 1600's as were arquebus.  Armor was still
about in the 1800's... but on the way out.  So if it was hand held 
firearms that made armor disapear (and I think it was), then it took
over 400 years for it to happen.  Of course with the body armor
avaialable today, some could claim that armor hasn't gone away at all...

	-Garth 




			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |
From: naam@cecer.army.mil (Ramez Naam)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Frank Dux?
Keywords: Dux, Goju-Ryu
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:38:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: lorax.naam.721935524
Distribution: na
Organization: US Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Labs

w0z092@rick.cs.ubc.ca (Michael Kin-Hung Liang) writes:

>2)  And I'm trying to find out all I can about this school of Karate called
>    Goju-Ryu.  From what I've heard from the guy that teaches it here at UBC,
>    it comes from Okinawa and was supposed to be the basis of the 'Karate Kid'
>    movies.  Its supposed to be an old but effective form of karate.

gojuryu is an Okinawan style, as you said, created by Chojin Miagi.  The
makers of _Karate Kid_ did indeed use a derivitive of gojuryu as the
basis of the combat.  "go" means hard in japanese, and "ju" means soft,
so "gojuryu" literally means "hard soft style" which is what it is:  a
very balanced, evenly split form of martial arts.  There is no
particular emphasis on punches or kicks, blocks or evasion, ground
fighting/infighting or punchy-kicky fighting, etc...  Instead, the style
tries to teach the basic concepts of combat:  how to keep your balance,
keep the initiative, and keep your foe on the defensive.  Most
techniques we learn involve a breakout, a hard style strike to stun your
attacker, and a joint lock or throw to disable him.  Individual
students, in my dojo, anyway, are allowed to develop their skill in
whatever techniques best suit them, so long as their overall skills
remain fairly balance between the hard and soft, and the pieces of the
body.  Hope that answers your question!  Other people on the net will do
a far better job than I of filling you in on goju's history.


--
Ramez Naam
naam@lorax.cecer.army.mil
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO)
Subject: Re: Short review of Van Damme Movies
Originator: cs922096@c11.ariel.yorku.ca
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:07:47 GMT


In article <1992Nov14.234520.23937@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>, anderson@fermi.phys.ualberta.ca (Warren G. Anderson) writes:
>> 
>>  tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes: 
>> > schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
>> > 
>> >>Kickboxer: 
>> >>     . . against the Big Ugly Asian kickboxer . . 
>> >   . . .
>> >>    (I don't know what VD is going to do when he runs
>> >>    out of BUA to waste, there can't be THAT many BUA's around)
>> > 
>> >   Don't worry; the "Thai" dude wasn't a BUA, he was a BUCMTLLAA (Big Ugly 
>> >   Caucasian Made To Look Like An Asian), a fellow Belch ^H^H^H^H^H^H Belgian 
>> >   kickboxer I believe.
>> 
>> I just saw this recently and I believe the trailing credits said Tong Po
>> was played by himself. I wonder why this BUB (Big Ugly Belgian) had a Thai
>> name (is Ted mistaken or did he change his name for love of his art :-)? 
>> ----- 
>> ########################## _`|'_ ##############################################
>> ##  Warren G. Anderson     |o o| "... for its truth does not matter, and is  ##
>> ##  Dept. of Physics       ( ^ )  unimaginable." -J. Ashbery, The New Spirit ##
>> ##  University of Alberta  /\-/\      (anderson@fermi.phys.ualberta.ca)      ##
    
    "Tong Po" was actually Michael Quissi, one of Van Damme's close friends.  He's not Asian at all.......If you want to know what he looks like in real life, check out "Bloodsport", he's the guy who gets his leg broken by Chong Li.  






|) Joe
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Request for Frequently Asked Questions!
From: spang@calstatela.edu (Sue P.)
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:48:03 PST
Reply-To: spang@calstatela.edu
Distribution: world
Organization: Cal State University, Los Angeles


Hi all,

I'm only a Sankyu in Karate-Jujitsu (I think it is Bugei).  I was wondering if someone is kind enough to post something like Frequently Asked Questions of somekind.  You know, like a list of different systems...you know what I mean.

Thank you very much.

You're all great!!

Sue