HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Greetings from ailsa
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:36:42 GMT
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR


Hello everyone -

I know that some of you have been trying to reach ailsa for the last week
or so.  She got back from Boston a bit later than she expected, and hasn't
been able to check her email recently or read news at all.  She asked me
to inform you of the following.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 13:38:31 EDT
From: "Ailsa N.T. Murphy" <ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com>


whihc reminds me, do you think you could post to alt.pagan that i am
not reading it until next week?  our newsfeed got a LOT more expensive,
so we have had to drop it until we can get a high-speed modem.  it
shoudl be in next week, so out feed will be back then...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also, if you've been unsuccessful at emailing her (address above is the
only valid one, but wang is a little inconsistent), I'll be happy to
forward anything for you. 

BB,

- Gretchen
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Love is like the Universe, No reason to exist, But here it is!"
			     - Linda Waterfall, "Love Out of Nowhere"
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Libertarians, guns, etc.
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:08:37 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

markbr@radian.uucp (markbr) writes:

: > Libertarians of all kinds oppose unnecessary violance. I believe that
: 
: They are for necessary violence? Who decides what's necessary?

Well, for example: If you broke into my house and attacked me with a club,
then libertarians (and many others) would say that a violent response was
justified. Note that I did not say necessary, the choice is up to the
person. They can either respond, as best they are able, or get beat to
a pulp. 

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Personal Astrological Info <was: Re: a nice experience last night>
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:02:43 GMT


Ailsa asks about peoples charts.

Bran is Sun in Aquarius, with moon in opposition in Leo.  Aquarius is rising.
I was born at sunrise of Imbolc, by the lunar reckoning I use.  It has a
definite impact on my life, too.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: The Serpent
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:51:18 GMT

lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

>In article <Eenumly00iV3E5A5hQ@andrew.cmu.edu> Kendrick Kerwin Chua <kendrick+@CMU.EDU> writes:
>>>What do any of you know of the serpent?

I don't know much about `the serpent' or what context you are reffering to
but I do remember Joseph Campbell pointing out that the `dragon' myths seem
to have different origins in the east vs. west in that the `eastern' dragon
has connotations of wisdom, knowledge, strength, etc. and is revered rather
than feared.. While the dragon myths in the west are all those of person
against beast and gave the dragon more negative qualities of cruelty,
greed and evil. And then of course you have the serpent from `the garden
of eden' which seems to have been a myth from the same origin as the
western dragons. I am curious. Why do you ask?

/al

-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Re: masculine and feminine
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:58:00 GMT

In article <00961181.65EECA80@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>, uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes...
>In article <4T7BRB3w165w@eagles.uucp>, hulda@eagles.uucp (Hulda Thunarsson) writes:
>>

..my post deleted...


>>
>>YES, finally I read something I can agree with. Thank you Tammy, you 
>>sound like a well balanced person.
>>                                         Hulda Thunarsson
>>
>I agree..I've never liked splitting hairs, and Tammy stated why.  If I had a 
>Heath Bar, I'd give it to you and gladly.
>                                        La Mort
> 

If you offered, I'd gladly accept ;-)
Seems we have the same taste in candy too.....

Tammy
From: amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan Cussin' (was: re: who do you kneel to when you pray?)
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:20:51 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at Austin

corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>My favourite Italian cuss phrase is one I picked up from Chico Marx, the
>"Italian" Marx brother. I probably don't have the exact wording, and it's
>probably not even real Italian much less real good Italian, but it's;
>
>"Piatza de moscas um feriachi tuzzi patz."
>
>And of course I'm spelling it mostly phonetically too. Someone once told me
>that it might actually translate out to;
>
>"Everyone here is crazy, but I love 'em anyway."

I wouldn't know about the "love 'em anyway" part, but if the last part
has to do with "everyone's crazy," it's undoubtedly "tutti pazzi."

Opera does have its more educational moments; I know how to call
someone a scoundrel or a crazy person five ways from Tuesday.  :)

>Which might even be applicable for describing this forum. ;-) -hugs-

Agreed...

>Bb,
>
>Corun

-- 
-----Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik-------------------------------*<:-)-------------
"Queens never make bargains."  -- The Red Queen, _Through the Looking Glass_
-----amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu--------------The University of Texas @Austin---
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Witches and death
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:32:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.175151.293@radian.uucp> markbr@radian.uucp (markbr) writes:
>
>Yes, it does. Just one question: what should Danny-boy Quale have been?
>
>		(B-)}
>
>	mark

Just what he is now. The southbound end of a northbound horse. ;-)

Bb,
Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |
  Dark Horde by birth  |      Forewarned is a Hindu god.
    Moritu by choice   |
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: another poem
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:07:13 GMT

In article <BvCxyG.C9p@encore.com> aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:
>marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:
>
>
>>However, I just can't get around hating what you call "feminine" women. 
>
>I haven't heard anyone say they hate `feminine women'..I believe the 
>argument is that ALL women are feminine because they are women, and that
>any other measure is purely artificial.

No, Al, I saw some almost-verbatim statements to the effect that the writer
hated conventionally feminine women, wanted to harm them, rose in a rage at
their very existence, etc. I did see the word "hate"; I checked before I
posted this.

There were also statements that said anything females do is feminine. I 
totally agree with that, and I extend it to painting one's nails (which I
don't personally do, but some women do).

>You defeat your own argument by defining pretty, gorgeous,etc...as slim,
>tall, blonde and blue-eyed and soft mannered. I certainly have not heard

For goodness' sake, *I* don't define it that way, western society does. 
Perhaps I used some verbal shorthand. I have heard lots of support for a very\
butch vision of womanhood, which I support as well (fitting into it as I do,
I can't avoid it in good conscience even if I wanted to, which I don't). I
have just heard a lot of disparagement of "femininity", which I can't support.

Don't get me wrong, I have a low tolerance for the clueless as well. But
isn't everybody clueless if they're set down outside their expertise? I try
to balance my impatience with simple kindness.

>Blessed Be

Blessings back atcha.

Marty

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Another beer, and then he eyes                 marty@world.std.com
The barmaid's legs and waist and thighs.        Marty Hale-Evans
'Needs to lose some weight,' he grunts,         89 Mass. Ave., Suite 199
'But just the same, I'd fuck her once.'         Boston, MA  02115
He orders pizza, buys a round,              M    @    *    O    %    8    U
Gains an appetizing pound."                \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: The Serpent
Organization: LLNL
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:06:01 GMT

In article <Eenumly00iV3E5A5hQ@andrew.cmu.edu> Kendrick Kerwin Chua <kendrick+@CMU.EDU> writes:
>>What do any of you know of the serpent?

>Most are going to tell you that the serpent myth originated in China,
>with the dragons and Feng Shui stuff.  However, I believe that the
>serpent originated in Mespotamia, with the legend of Tiamat.

	Look, this is perhaps the first _recorded_ account of a
legendary snake-monster, a.k.a. a dragon. Before that, it would have
been an oral tradition, and why is the first _written_ account
supposed to be the origin of it all??? For all we know, the idea was
invented _several_ times.

	Furthermore, European / Middle Eastern dragons like Tiamat are
essentially villains, while Chinese dragons are friendly. I'm sure
there are more details that differ. This circumstance suggests
different origins.

>According to the mythology, in the great battle in which the earth and
>sky were created, the god Marduk slew Tiamat, the great leviathan who
>dwelt in the oceans of Absu (the Abyss). From this Marduk made the earth
>from one half of the corpse (he cut the serpent in half), and from the
>other half he made the sky, to keep out the waters above.

>This myth has carried itself east and west, where it became Adonai and
>the leviathan, Saint George and the Dragon, and any one a a million
>"some guy and a lizard" legends.

	Actually, there _is_ a case for a common origin for these
dragon stories. More examples:

Zeus kills Typhon
Apollo kills Python
Perseus kills Medusa (?)
Thor kills Midgard
Indra kills Vrtra

	(Oh, boy! All these gods and heroes just _love_ to kill snakes.)

	The hypothesis I like best is that all these stories are
ultimately derivatives of some ancestral Indo-European myth of a
warrior-god fighting and killing an evil snake-monster. This explains
the Greek, Aryan, and Germanic versions, and probably the original of
the St. George legend. The non-IE ones, the Israelite and Mesopotamian
ones, need a closer look. The Aryan barbarians who came out of Central
Asia or thereabouts and invaded India ca. 1500 BCE also overran parts
of the Middle East, producing the short-lived Mitanni kingdom in
northern Mesopotamia ca. 1500 BCE, and also leading to several
Canaanite kings having Aryan names in that time period (example:
Indaruta; compare Vedic Indrauta or Indrota). So with them may have
come several Aryan customs and folktales, as Merlin Stone suggests.

	There is another possible IE correspondence: the creation of
the world from Tiamat is paralleled by one ancient Iranian creation
story featuring a carved-up World-Ox and the Norse story of the
creation of the world from the giant Ymir.

	For more on the Indo-European question, see J.P. Mallory's _In
Search of the Indo-Europeans_, and also Marija Gimbutas's works.
Mallory does not mention the hero-kills-snake bit at all; Gimbutas
does so only briefly, as if it was common knowledge to her.

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: Sabean Order in Chicago
Summary: See alt.religion.sabaean
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 03:39:49 GMT
Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Chicago, IL

In article <Bv4vKC.Cq9@ddsw1.mcs.com> eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes:
>mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings) writes:
>: 
>:  Does anyone have any information on the Sabean Order in Chicago
>: (mentioned in Drawing Down the Moon and here occasionally)? I once saved a
>: message posted here which mentioned a site where you could use anonymous
>: uucp to get their journal in postscript format or somesuch. I have
>: misplaced the saved file but I have seen it posted more than once. Does
>: anyone have any information on it, the site, or them?
>: 
>: Wassail,
>: Grendel
>
>see alt.religion.sabaean I'm sure there they would know

That is definately true.

You can get the Summer >91< issue from my system via anonymous UUCP.  Future
issues (starting with the Fall '92) issue will also be put up here.  I've
been somewhat lax in keeping up with this, alas.  I will, however, promise
not to do that in the future ;-)

You can anon uucp the file: /arch1/saba_quarterly/yellow91.eps.Z

This is the entire paper, compressed, as a "eps" or Postscript file.  Send
the file to a Postscript printer and out will pop the paper.

The Fall '92 issue will, if I get lucky, be available in both EPS and HP
formats.

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
Data Line: [+1 312 248-0900] Anon. arch. (nuucp) 00:00-06:00 C[SD]T
Request file: /u/public/sources/DIRECTORY/README for instructions
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: just wondering
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:12:49 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <BvMMGB.614@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>In article <2ACEAE9E.25734@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>Anyone else see Saturday Night Live?  I'm not just talking about Sinead
>>O'Connor -- the whole SHOW was heavy.  They are really scared, here.  Of
>>course, it helped that the actor from "Bob Roberts" was on . . . 
>>
>>Blessings,
>>Janis 
>
>No, what happened?

Well, the Sinead O'Connor business consisted of her singing a song a
capella about how fucked up the world is (with which I agree), and
holding up a picture of the pope at the end, saying, "Fight the REAL
evil," and ripping up the picture.  She was wearing a star of David,
BTW.  The audience, from what I could gather, did nothing.  No applause,
no booing -- they seemed surprised and unsure of how to take her
actions, as was I.  I (in my heart of hearts) do think that the xtian
patriarchal worldview has been responsible for screwing up the world
more ways than we can imagine, but I also think that the pope is
essentially just some old fart trapped in the 15th century.  Hmph.
That's the problem with using media like this as a forum for 3 minute
social protests, Sinead!!!  No ones knows what the hell you meant. 

The SNL cast was VERY heavy, too.  The Bob Roberts actor was a
songleader for a group called "Young Reactionaries for a Better
America," and one of the sampfire songs they sung was about God asking a
little monkey in the jungle what he wanted to be.  The money responded,
"I'd rather be a monkey if I can't be white."  They were throwing books
on a REAL campfire during the skit.  

Al Frankin's Stuart Smalley flat out pushed Clinton.  

Nealon, Hartman, and the actor played the Founding Fathers who came
forward in time to help solve the budget crisis.  When they offered a
spending plan, reporters kept asking if they had slaves, if they
attended church, and if they had sex with their slaves.  In disgust, the
FF's walked up and left.  NO jokes were cracked by the three actors
playing the FF, and no smiles.  Audience laughter was a bit timorous;
they seemed aware that soemthing deeper was going on. 

The only non-political skit they had had to do with Beverley Hills 90210
-- and was well-done, IMO, even though I don't know the 90210 stuff
since I don't watch it.  When you've seen one sorority bimbo . . .

Generally, it was a very politically heavy show; there are other
examples, but they escape my mind right now.

Blessings,
Janis  
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Chris Lilley: relax
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:05:27 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Chris, your flames aren't helping move forward the discussion here, either.

Perhaps you and Eshin BOTH should just try taking the discussion from the top,
rather than argue over who's looking more foolish?

-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Pagan Cussin' (was: re: who do you kneel to when you pray?)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:18:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.014847.5739@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>In article <1a108bINN9qa@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> law10@po.CWRU.Edu (Lorrie A. Wood) writes:
>>
>>	"Jesus ate a can of beans!" -- lifted from a Steven King novel
>
>Then there's the ever popular "Cheese and crackers! Got all muddy!"
>
>And don't forget "Frack!" and "Felgercarb!" from Battlestar Galactica.

I may have a slight advantage out here in SoCal; there just ain't no
dagos `round!  Consequently, I can swear in the busted-up Italian curse
words I heard when I was little and no one knows what I said.

Blessings,
Janis
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Mysterious Ways
Date: 26 Sep 92 21:55:15 GMT
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764

In article <Bv5DD0.L1v@nntp-sc.Intel.COM> pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:
>>	Why would he say cat, then?  Unless it was a simple slip of the lip...
>
>Because he is singing, as oppossed to speaking. The beat and tonality come
>first, "correct" pronounciation comes last.

	But neither pronounciation strikes me as being any easier...

>The song (art) does not have an "intent", it just is, it is art, it 

	I can't agree with this.  There have been songs/poems with intent as
far back as I can think of there being songs/poems.  From the Greek epics 
right up through the Disposable Heroes of Hyphiprisy singing about "California
Uber Alles".  Certainly, songs/poems CAN be just a method of sending somebody
on a mindtrip, but I also think they can be a powerful method of saying
what is on the mind of the artist.

>
>>>>Carpe Diem, Man.  
>
>>>Ah, si, carpe diaz. Ese catfish, no? Y Sangre de Toro? In Vino ese Veritas.
>
>>	Uh, HUH?  What does this mean?
>
>Oh, I was just being silly, in an abstact fashion. It's Spanglish/Latin, let's
>see if I can translate to English: OK you say Carpe Diem, Latin for seaze the
>day, right? And I say, Oh yes, carp of the day, catfish right? And would you
>like some blood of the bull, (wine), with that. In wine there is truth. See,
>I told you it was silly.

	Oh, (),/<., it makes perfect sense now...  :-/



|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
|o| Of Course I speak  |      michael carson       | Carpe Diem, Man.        |o|
|o|  only for myself.  | c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu |                -me      |o|
|o| Would YOU let me   +---------------------------+-------------------------|o|
|o|  speak for you?!?  |      All flames to: nobody@moncol.monmouth.edu      |o|
|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: editing
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 16:44:00 EDT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:

> In <ReBoRB4w165w@hogbbs.scol.pa.us> wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman) writ
> >Picayune, yes, but net ettiquette involves editing out quoted material so 
> 
> Excuuuuuuse me?  Like all other etiquette, politeness on the net means
> to use (un)common sense when dealing with a situation.
> 

A masterful mini-flame, Mr. Wolfe. 

For those newcomers to the group, brought in by the onset of school and 
university related connections, Mr Wolfe is reminding me that you will 
use common sense, and learn to use your editors, those that have them, so 
as not to leave more quoted message than necessary when following up
another's post.

Later, Bill (who arrogantly believes that geller and nelson shouldn't 
have to do _all_ the janitorial work around here.)

Thanks for the help, Mr. Wolfe. And be blessed.
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Trad and Non-Trad in Seattle [Was: Request for Info - Samhain]
Date: 26 Sep 92 04:30:40 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society

In article <meriel.717472501@milton> meriel@milton.u.washington.edu (Lisa Anderson) writes:

>Which is too bad; a little tolerance goes a long way.
>And Dianics don't only have "one feminine deity."  
>And eclectic doesn't mean dianic.  
>(and she did say eclectic.  and non-heirarchical.  and non-heterosexist.)

 I don't know where you are from but my mother, who was involved in
paganism years before I was, is a dianic priestess and her and I have had
long discussions and/or arguments (depending on our moods) about theology.
Dianics, by their nature, are two things (in her opinion and how she has
always defined them to me):

 1) They worship the Goddess (with a big 'g') in her various forms
 
 and

 2) They are Eclectic (to an extreme).

 That's it. The rest is details.

                           mimir@u.washington.edu
    /\  /\       +----------------------------------------+
   /__\/__\      | "I know that I hung on the windy tree  |          |
  /\  /\  /\     |  all of nights nine, wounded by Gar,   |          |
 /__\/__\/__\    |   given to Odhinn, myself to myself,   |          |
    /\  /\       | upon that tree of which none can tell  |          |
   /__\/__\      |      from what root it rises."         |    ______|______
                 +----------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Subject: righteous anger
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 03:34:52 GMT

A friend and I were discussing religion the other day.  She's Christian but is
very cool.  She said that she couldn't really begin to love and trust God 
until she was able to get angry with Him.  That was also my spiritual 
breakthrough.  I'd been in therapy for about a year and was finally realizing
how little nurturing my parents gave me.  I got really pissed off at Goddess/
God and cussed her/him out for a few days.  And it was when I realized that
Goddess/God could understand my anger and love me because of it that I
realized how much I love Goddess/God and get from Her/Him/Them.  It's not
as if they'll promise me a fair life or replace my parents for me... it's too
late for that.  But getting angry at the Deity(s) was a major step in my 
self-healing process.

Has anyone here had similar experience?

Do you find this blasphemous?  (I ask out of curiosity; I won't change my mind
... it's not at all blasphemous for me.)



-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_