From: schafer@is.rice.edu (Richard Alan Schafer)
Subject: Re: Internet <-> Bitnet Talk connection?
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:26:02 GMT

In article <6OCT199201005067@acad3.alaska.edu>, fxmlk@acad3.alaska.edu
(KIENENBERGER MIKE L) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct6.074020.14449@news.acns.nwu.edu>,
|> eepmatt@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Matthew Friedman) writes...
|> >A number of questions involving the Bitnet:
|> 
|> First the easy questions:
|> 
|> >2) Is there an equivilent to internet's telnet for machines on the bitnet?
|> I'm
|> >told (by someone unsure) that there is not.
|> 
|> There is not.  However, some bitnet machines are also on a decnet.  For
|> instance, the University of Alaska computer system is connected to (or was)
|> the University of Washington (Seattle) and one could type "SET HOST
|> <machine>"
|> and log into any of the machines in the network (This was pretty amazing
|> way
|> back before internet reached our university!)

Sorry, this is simply not true.  Many BITNET hosts are also accessible via the
Internet, supporting both telnet, ftp, smtp, and other familiar tools.  You
will need to obtain the domain name for the BITNET host, since it will be
different than its BITNET name, which is limited to 8 characters.  For example
my IBM mainframe is RICEVM1 on BITNET, but RICEVM1.RICE.EDU to the Internet.

Mike is correct in that some BITNET hosts are decnet-connected, but remember
that's an underlying transport protocol, not strictly speaking a network.  The
common factor for BITNET members is that there are links between hosts using
an IBM-developed protocol known as NJE (Network Job Entry).  That protocol may
well run over IP links.  For example, RICEVM1 is part of a core of 14 BITNET
hosts which tie regions of BITNET together.  All of the NJE traffic between
those hosts is actually running on top of TCP/IP, using the NSFNet backbone
in most cases as the actual physical transport.

|> >3) A Bitnet Address that I mail to is
|> :USERNAME%UTCVM.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
|> >What does the "%" do? 
|> 
|> CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU is a bitnet/internet gateway. "username@utcvm.bitnet" is
|> where you really want to send the message.  Your machine doesn't know what
|> to do with a *.bitnet address, so you forward it to CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU using
|> <some address>@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU, and CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU forwards it to the
|> right network.  However, since mailers only want ONE address to send
|> a message, you replace all of the other "@" symbols with "%" symbols.
|> When it arrives at a gateway, the gateway mailer parses the address,
|> changes
|> a "%" to an "@" (usually the last) and forwards it on its way.

Assuming all works well.  Two comments: 

	1. CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU is not the only gateway.  There are many gateways
	   that actually pass traffic between the networks.  Instead of just
	   assuming CUNY, you might want to see if there is a gateway closer
	   to you.

	2. Since many BITNET systems have a domain name (and in fact, *ALL*
	   of them could if they wished), you should try to find out the
	   domain name of any of your correspondents on BITNET and use that
	   address, instead of the phony xyz.BITNET address.  Your mail will
	   be delivered better if you do, probably going through fewer hops
	   to arrive.
 
|> >1) Is there a way to establish an interactive connection between an
|> internet
|> >account and a bitnet account? My talk program does not recognise the bitnet
|> |> >host as a legitimate name.
|> 
|> Short Answer: No.
|> 
|> Long Answer: Yes. However, you have to
|> 1) find a machine that is on both bitnet and internet,
|> 2) write a program that understands an interactive message under both
|> networks
|>    and can translate the messages.
|> 3) run the program on the machine meantioned in 1).

There are several of these programs running around, for everything from VMS
to IBM VM/CMS systems that I've heard of.  
 
|> Just as a last comment, bitnet interactive messages mostly resemble the
|> Unix "write" command, except that they only send one line at a time.

True.  BITNET people will tell you (with some justification) that these
are frequently just what they want, since these interactive messages are
used to send commands to servers.


-- 
Richard