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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 11:15:05 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2803
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2803

                            Friday, July 17, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 651

                          Re: audible traffic sign
                            Re: Vendor Favoritism
                       Source for Blank Tapes, Anyone?
                         Re: Speaking Of Radio Shack
                               Sneak preview!
                           Re: Braille'n Speak 640
                        Re: Nfb Bbs Censorship?? You
                                   Re: sfi
                          how do blind people lear


                                ******


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                              (203) 337-1518



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Subject: Re: audible traffic sign
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

To: dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Jude DaShiell)

In a message to All <28 Jun 92 19:07> Jude Dashiell wrote:

 JD> Just because a signal goes off and
 JD> lets you and all others know
 JD> you've got the right of way doesn't necessarily mean the
 JD> intersection will be clear for the
 JD> mobility traveler.  There is now
 JD> and will continue to be problems with
 JD> drunk drivers on the road
 JD> road and these signals will do nothing
 JD> to help with that problem.

Amen to that, brother!

 JD> A better solution would be I think
 JD> some sensors in the road and
 JD> cities already put them in the road
 JD> for fire trucks to be hooked up
 JD> to the light system.  The user pressed
 JD> the button but the signal
 JD> didn't work.  The reason the signal
 JD> didn't work is because the road
 JD> sensors detected that traffic was
 JD> still moving and not only that it
 JD> was moving too fast through the
 JD> intersection and on the approach to
 JD> the intersection to allow a crossing
 JD> in safety.  This is a scenario
 JD> which if it happened would save your
 JD> and other lives.  I was in a

Minor point:  Most of the systems I've seen which allow the Fire
Department to control traffic signals use infrared devices which project
a signal at the upcoming light, telling it not to change.

Nevertheless, your objection to audible traffic signals as they're
currently implemented is a good one and while I'm not sure I'm willing
to trust my life to electronic sensors in the road, your notion is an
interesting one.

Mike < K 7 U I J >
... ** Sevareids law:  The cause of problems is solutions. **
___ CRR QWK 1.40

--
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Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Vendor Favoritism
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message to Steve Bauer <07 Jul 92 09:08> Bill Burgess wrote:

 BB> Steve, I have been reading so much
 BB> about the pathetic manner in which
 BB> the NFB executive dictate the freedom,
 BB> or better yet, lack of it with
 BB> their members.  Obviously, they must
 BB> live in fear of the ACB since the
 BB> latter may wake up the NFB members to
 BB> reality about life.  As a
 BB> Canadian, and not being wrapped up
 BB> with either of them, I am not biased
 BB> and have found some of the NFB
 BB> dictates to be unreal.  I would love to
 BB> attend one of their meetings, but no
 BB> doubt somebody would find an excuse
 BB> to eliminate me when they discover
 BB> that I am a free thinker and willing
 BB> to express myself as such without fear
 BB> of them.  And my cassette
 BB> recorder would accompany me, as it
 BB> does whenever I attend meetings.
 BB> Now watch the excited executive.  TTYL
 BB> Bill

Hello, Bill.

For an "unbiased" Canadian, I'd say that your bias was showing <grin>.
Which "dictates" of the NFB leadership did you find "pathetic"?  And how
do you know that they were "dictates"?  You admit that you've never
attended a NFB convention.  How then, from firsthand observation, can
you state so dogmatically how things are in the Federation?  It would
appear to me that you're taking the word of ACBers without question as
to the way NFB functions.  This is only natural in that you are
affiliated with some ACB special-interest affiliates (you did tell me
one time that you were a member of GDUI, did you not?).  IMHO that makes
it kinda tough to say that you're unbiased.  But I'm not writing this as
a personal diatribe; I'll leave that to the ACBers.

What I wanted to do was to invite you to a National Federation of the
Blind convention.  Come to Dallas next summer; you'll be most cordially
welcomed.  And, no, you won't get thrown out.  BTW, you can tape all you
like; except for the Nominating Committee meeting which is closed (such
meetings are closed in most organizations), *all* meetings are open and
are, in most cases, being taped anyway.  You are free to tape, or not
tape, as you like.

By the way, the only meetings of which I am aware in which taping was
frowned upon and people were threatened with expulsion from the room
were meetings of a Randolph-Sheppard vendors meeting around here a few
years ago (not an RSVA meeting) and ACB meetings.  Around here, ACB gets
damned excited when they learn that someone (even one of their members)
has a tape recorder!

Bottom line:  Before you judge us, please investigate us thoroughly.
Don't make snap judgements without learning the full story.  If you do,
you're guilty of the same sort of madness NFB's foes always accuse it
of.

Come to Dallas; we'd love to have you.

Regards,

Mike < K 7 U I J >

P.S.:  If you ever run into Euclid Herie, head of CNIB, ask him to
explain NFB to you; he's been to the past several NFB conventions and
should be in a good position to separate fact from fiction.
-MF-
... *The National Federation of the Blind is changing what it means to be
 blind.*
___ CRR QWK 1.40

--
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Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Source for Blank Tapes, Anyone?
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I have the perfect source for you, and the tape quality is really
good.  Another Blinktalker put me on to this company many years
ago.  Back in the early 80's Bill Koppelmann recommended I try a
place called Religious Products for master quality tapes at great
prices.  I did and have been very happy with them.  I would say
that for the kind of tapes you say you want you will be looking at
about 50 cents per tape without boxes in quantities of at least 25
tapes.  They have an 800 number and will send tapes c o d.  Their
delivery time is the best I have ever seen, usually no more than 3
to 4 days.  They also carry several qualities of tape in a variety
of lengths, storage boxes and folders are very cheap, and they also
have a good line of tape duplicators and recorders from cheap to
very expensive professional models.

        D. T.

--
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Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Speaking Of Radio Shack
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message of <10 Jul 92  07:38:02>, Steve Bauer (1:291/7) writes:
 >What's really bad is when you are at a meeting of an association for
 >visually impaired persons.  The top of the hour approaches.  Starting
 >anywhere from 3 or 4 minutes 'til up to 3 to 4 minutes after the
 >hour,all  these talking clocks go off with there beeps, boops and
 >bells announcing the time.  OK, let's get them all syncronized and
 >interrupt the meeting with one loud *BEEP* the time is 4 PM.
 >
 >Steve

Yes, that use to really bug me too, but not any more.  I attended a
church for awhile that averaged over 1500 people in their sunday
morning services.  The service I attended usually ended about 9:00
A.M. to 9:05 A.M. It ws really funny to set there buring the final
minutes of the service and hear these sighted folks watches beeping
all over the church during the final prayer.  After a few weeks of
that I said to myself, " obviously blind folks have noting to worry
about sighted folks are just as worried about having their watches
beep every hour as blind folks."  Sure the beeps may not be as
noticeable to some as a talking watch that blares out the time on
the hour, but depending on the watch it is no more noticeable than
some guy's watch that sets there beeping for a full minute.

        D. T.

--
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Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Sneak preview!
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Well, let me say this for IBM.  Late as they are releasing Screen
Reader for OS2, they are at least tackeling the problem.  Now, that
is a lot more than can be said for MicroSoft.  Windows 3.0 was
released over a year ago and MicroSoft has not responded to help us
access their software.  Windows 3.1 has been out for several months
now and no help for it either.  I guess they are waiting to start
on speech for Windows till they get out Windows NT.  Now, if you
believe that one you are more naive than I am that MicroSoft will
ever release an access technology to help us.

        D. T.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!168!David.Tanner
Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Braille'n Speak 640
From: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

To: janina@netcom.com (Janina Sajka)

 JS> I was unable to upload from the BNS using any of its transfer
 JS> protocls either.  Mine is a June 1992 revision -- just back from
 JS> its maker.

Janina,
    I'm sorry if I missed the beginning of this thread where more detail
was given, but perhaps I can help given them now.

     I just did several transfers to my June 26, 1992 revision 640k
Braille 'n Speak from my PC, and all went fine!  I didn't use all the
different protocols, but Y-modem worked perfectly.

     What were you using on the PC end to do the transfer?  I found that
DSZ did the trick, using the command line "DSZ port 1 speed 9600 d SB -y
filename.ext".  In particular, the lower case d is necessary to disable
carrier watch in DSZ.

     I'll play with this more when I get a chance, but honestly, I think
the protocols Blazie has added to the Braille 'n Speak are great, and
perhaps one of the best things they've added in a long time!
                                        Willie

... BlinkTalk - Voice of the disorganized blind@

--
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Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Nfb Bbs Censorship?? You
From: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 MF> here.  In addition to being put up on NFB NET, LOYALTY.TXT has
 MF> been put up several other places, including, of course
 MF> BlinkLink.

Mike,
    What's this, a little BlinkLink bashing?

 MF> Now consider the tone of the article.  There were a lot of "It
 MF> is believed that ..." and "It is said that ..." statements in
 MF> the article. No sources were cited for each specific allegation
 MF> against the N.F.B. This is surely shabby journalsim and the NFB
 MF> membership (including myself) wouldn't tolerate spending its
 MF> money to publicize such drivel.

I'm not even going to say much about this, for I'm sure that you realize
that one man's drivel is another man's substance!  For example, I am
sure that many people who have read the Monitor from a less than pro-NFB
perspective can make just such a claim of it!  In fact, about the only
articles I've ever seen that contained nothing but documented evidence
existed in scientific professional journals, and your's and others' claims
that this is a prerequisite in good journalism seems contrary to most
everything I've read in my lifetime!  No, I'm not saying that an article
can be based solely on hear-say and still be given the credibility it
would be given were it not, but expecting documentation for each and
every statement in an article would make for very boring reading, thus
the reason it is a rare phenomena!  The author, in my opinion, has to
make a judgement call as to how much of what they write is verifiable
and what can be stated without supporting evidence and still maintain
credibility!  After all, there are legal routes that can be taken should
any of their non-documented statements be seen as slanderous or just
untruths by their victim!

     Incidentally Mike, BlinkLink has been distributing the Monitorsince
the first electronic edition, which was undoubtedly produced largely due
to the interest expressed here although I suspect this will never be
acknowledged, and long before NFB-Net ever existed!

 MF> All this asside, has anyone ever noticed that no one ever sees
 MF> articles or messages on here blasting ACB or spreading
 MF> scherulous falsehoods about, say, Durward McDaniel or Oral
 MF> Miller?  It's worth pondering.

Ok Mike, let's ponder this one?

     Yes, why is it the case that we havn't seen any ACB bashing here,
or have we and this again is a matter of one's perspective?  Admittedly,
accusations of ACB bashing havn't come up here as have the NFB bashing
claims, but frankly, I don't think there is much of any way anyone can
say anything contrary to what a true NFB advocate believes without
having the old 'bash' claim thrown at them!  I don't know why this echo,
or my board for that matter, as you inferred above, should be viewed as
anything but a randomly collected group of modem using visually disabled
people!  There ain't no entrance requirements here, there is no
distinctive polotical leaning to the croud that I havn't seen in the
blind community at large, and frankly, the assertions by some of the NFB
members that this isn't the case leads me to believe either their entire
social contact with other blind people is restricted to NFB meetings or
they totally avoid bringing up their NFB philosophical beliefs when in
mixed company!  I've just been in too many situations where there is a
group of randomly collected blind people, a few of whom were NFB
advocates, to think otherwise!

     What I'm trying to say here Mike is, BlinkTalk and BlinkLink are
both open forums, and the constant insinuations that rather than this
being the case, that they are uniquely anti-NFB, is starting to get to
me!  You want to write some ACB bashing messages, at least in the same
nature as what you obviously consider NFB bashing, feel free!  You want
to write an article in the style of the LOYALTY.TXT article and have me
make it available on BlinkLink, feel free!  Insinuating that BlinkTalk
or BlinkLink are somehow uniquely anti-NFB just ain't gonna cut it with
me, however, cause if they were, I think I'd be one of the first to
know!
                                        Willie

... BlinkTalk - the Electronic Voice of the Blind!

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------



Subject: Re: sfi
From: Tandy.Way@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Tandy Way)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:377/6 - T.A.B.B., Tampa Fl


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

jeff I have a question about the sfi which I think is critical to
its future development. are you intending to make the sfi a part of
the program on an individual basis for example command line
activated or have the programer have an option in his setup menu
for it? or are you planning to make it like shez does where you
must put a set statement in your autoexec.bat? can you convince the
author of shez to abandon that method and njust let it be command
line driven or better yet just ask one or two questions in the shez
configuration program. I feel cluttering up your autoexec.bat with
a bunch of set statements is not going to work. you are going to
run out ofenvirenment space if you elect to do it the way that shez
does it. advise tandy

Self interest typically wins out.
=== Via Silver Xpress V3.00B09

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------



Subject: how do blind people lear
From: Kimberly.Bobrow@f488.n141.z1.fidonet.org (Kimberly Bobrow)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:141/488 - Alice's Restaurant, Branford CT


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

To: ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu

 AA> A friend of mine is married to a woman who has been blind since
 AA> birth. She has learned some pre-calculus math in the past and now
 AA> needs to learn more advanced mathematics, such as statistics. She

 AA> this post.  But I also gave him my own naive impressions of how I
 AA> would approach the problem, and basically it is the way I would
 AA> approach any one on one teaching situation: forget about statistics
 AA> and just make sure there is dialogue, for that is more fundamental.

I have never taught math to a blind person, but I have taught math
before, and I'd agree with you wholeheartedly!  I also think
there's an inherent beauty to all mathematics, which certainly
isn't exclusively visual, and a teacher who can convey some of that
will find a student even more eager to learn.

I am also interested in knowing what has been done before - but the
final answer will have more to do with the individual involved, it
sounds like.  Let us know what happens!

--Kimberly
___
 * PMQWK 1.00b5 * The world's largest room is the one for improvement.
--
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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2803 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU