HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov (Soren LaForce)
Subject: Re: The Tao of falling off a bike
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:44:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.214759.15439@netcom.com>, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes...
>In article <BvE0nB.4tG@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> mark3@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Mark Magennis) writes:
> 
>>I have heard many times that in the event of any impact (car, bike, falling
>>off a wall,...) it's best to remain relaxed. It's supposed to absorb the 

stuff deleted.

> 
>Saying that you should remain relaxed when an automobile is striking
>you is a bit much though. Dangerous accidents tend to happen so
>fast that you don't even know they're happening until afterwards.
>So you don't have time to tense up or relax.
> 
>Remember, a car traveling at 50 mph covers 88 feet in a second,
>you can observe and react in about .2 seconds. So, in this time
>a car has already traveled 17 feet -- by the time it is obvious
>that a car is going to hit you, you have already been hit.

Actually, 60 mph is 88 ft/sec.

I also think that in many instances you have several seconds.  I
don't think this gets you anything.  Most people, I include myself
here, can't just say "I will be relaxed now" when 2tons of steel is
heading their way.  I'm usually fully into "fight of flight" and 
doing my best to get out of the way.  Not condusive to relaxing.

You may (if you are prepared and **fast**) be able to make a 
finger or hand movement in .2 seconds.  A large limb (arm or leg) 
will cost you more like .4 to .6 seconds.  In high school (18 years
ago) I could hit the brakes on a fake car in less than .4 seconds.
I think there was one faster person in the class, most were .4 to .6,
with a cluster around .5 seconds.  Times given here are from visual/
audio stimulus.

The amount of movement required to evade a car is a good deal more 
than that required to brake a car, both in terms of quantity and 
quality, but I think you also have several seconds, not .2 seconds 
in which to act.

Some years ago, there was a motorcycle accident study done in LA 
(the Hurt report (?), which I have not read, but have had quoted
to me by a motorcycle junkie friend at work).

They found that most accidents were at intersections, most were caused
by cars not seeing the cycle, and the rider typically had 3 or 4
seconds, during which time they failed to protect themselves.  Of 
course, the riders that did protect themselves never made it into 
the report.

My gut feeling is that those numbers are fairly accurate.  When I rode
motorcycles, I generally had several seconds with which to avoid the
blind drivers, same with bicycle riding.  





--Soren            laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov
From: tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Road bikes in the winter.
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:22:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvCzDF.EC4
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

I'd like to keep riding my road bike in the winter.  Here in central Illinois
it gets pretty cold and windy out in the cornfields.  I know alot of people
on the net are familiar with this since many of you attended the University
of Illinois.  I imagine theres others who are familiar with these conditions.
Anyway I have a mountain bike (Yes its a Bridgestone) but I really am a roadie
at heart.  Is it at all possible to continue riding when it gets 30 or 40
degrees?  I think I could dress OK for the cold but the wind is another story.
I would think that the wind on these flat cornfields would go through
about anything. Comments?  How can I do at least some road riding this winter?
I won't try to ride in snow btw.  I'll use the mountain bike for that.
-Terry
From: craig@cv.hp.com (Craig Durland)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: water inside frame tubes
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:09:10 GMT
Reply-To: craig@cv.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.1 PL6]

Eric Praetzel (praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
: In article <1992Sep21.181312.16174@leland.Stanford.EDU> sjlt@leland.Stanford.EDU (Sean Lev-Tov) writes:
: > < re holes in tubes >
: >I had heard that the holes are for the expansion of gases during the welding
: >(or whatever the term is for heating to fuse the frame together), and that 
: >they should be blocked up to prevent water's entry into the frame.  I read
: >this in a bicycling book or magazine somewhere.
: 
: Nope. Not unless someone started using some nasty soldering/brazing techniques
: behind my back.  Basically they are like the drain holes on a car.  

Obviously you haven't brazed any frames together.  When brazing a closed
tube (like a fork blade), as the tube heats up, the expanding gases can
cause little volcanos of the brazing material.  You can control it with
brase brasing but its a real pain with silver.  Note that this is mostly
a problem with lugged joints.

: If you are
: riding in a place where corrosive chemicals can get into the tubes thru the
: holes I suggest you plug them but otherwise leave them open so that the tubes
: can dry out.  It is not uncommon for a sealed steel tube to "sweat" water
: into the interior.  Unless it can evaporate / drain out it will rust the tube.

But the holes are drilled so they can't drain (the placement is wrong).
Water just sits in the bottom of the tube.  I've taken apart several
(vented) forks and they were loaded with rust inside.

    Craig Durland       (503) 750-3354
    Hewlett-Packard, 1000 NE Circle, Corvallis, OR 97330
    craig@cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: sims@possum.den.mmc.com (John Sims)
Subject: Re: DO YOU shower after a commute?
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:29:25 GMT

dschwepk@samson.hac.com (Daniel Schwepker) writes:


>David Yon mentioned "a quick sponge bath with a soapy facecloth in the bathroom and
>a change of clothes works quite well."

>Concerning the change of clothes, how can a change of clothes (say dress pants, 
>shirt, tie) be carried on a bike without getting badly wrinkled?

When my commute went from less than 2 miles to over 12, I broke down and
got the garment pannier from Performance.  It seems to work just fine
for pants, shirt, coat, etc.  I haven't yet had it in any wet weather,
but it looks like it'll hold up ok.

John

>--
>Daniel Schwepker

-- 
John Sims    sims@pogo.den.mmc.com
From: maarrrk@seidel.ucsb.edu (Mark Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: The Tao of falling off a bike
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:21:20 GMT

mark3@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Mark Magennis) writes:

>I have heard many times that in the event of any impact (car, bike, falling
>off a wall,...) it's best to remain relaxed. It's supposed to absorb the 
>impact. It's said that stiffening up is more likey to lead to broken bones.
>Is this an old spouses tale or is there some evidence for it, apart from the
>wise sayings of a Chinese sage?

The experience of years of Aikido training, in the process of which
I've hit the ground thousands of times, leads me to believe that
staying supple is _much_ better than stiffening up.

Hence, if the Chinese (or Japanese) sage spent any time as 
a young man getting thrown around, he probably knows what 
he's talking about :+)

--maarrrk
From: perley@trub.crd.ge.com (Donald P Perley)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Road bikes in the winter.
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:48:49 GMT
	<1992Oct1.210147.12950@keps.kodak.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: GE Corp. R & D, Schenectady, NY 12345

In article <1992Oct1.210147.12950@keps.kodak.com> pamela@keps.kodak.com (Pamela Blalock) writes:

   30 or 40 degrees, you call that winter, Hah! We call that the first
   day of fall here in Massachusetts! Yes, we are already experiencing
   those temps right here. I thought it got pretty cold in Illinois, but
   I guess not...

Indeed.  The first 50 miles of the double century I did a couple
of weeks ago were at 40 deg or less.  The extra clothing comprised
a long sleeve jersey over t-shirt, tights over shorts (my tights aren't
padded :-O), and a cycle cap under the helmet.  

If it was any colder I would have wanted warmer socks and full
finger gloves.  BEyond that (below freezing or gusty): wind jacket,
polypro underwear, insulated helmet liner... eventually I would
probably change from clipless pedals to MTB platforms so I could 
wear boots.

don perley
--
perley@trub.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: todd@cleo.abt.com (Todd Nix)
Subject: Training Schedules
Organization: Alternative Broadcast Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:49:13 GMT

I'm trying to get into a more structured training schedule. I'm not racing 
yet, but I plan to start next spring. I'd like to get some more power
in my legs, and am trying to decide what part of the week would be a
good time for weight training. Here's a sketch of my planned schedule:

Monday:    intervals/sprints (today was 8x1 minute intervals)
Tuesday:   marginally hilly ride (between 80-85% with some hills up to 90%)
Wednesday: long slow ride at around 75%
Thursday:  similar to Tuesday
Friday:    rest 
Saturday:  club or organized ride (anywhere from 30-100 miles)
Sunday:    rest

now i have to figure out which day to do weights. i was thinking 2 days a
week would be good, but i'm not sure which days. i still need to leave
sufficient rest time, as i'm really prone to overtraining.

other tips, glaring errors, or suggestions are welcome.

-- 
Todd Nix                                              cleo!todd@uudell.dell.com
 Movement1981-1982Power,Corruption,andLiesLowLifeBrotherhoodSubstanceTechnique
From: jrdodd@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Frame refinishing suggestions wanted.
Date: 28 Sep 92 09:12:50 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1686DBF02.UCPL081@UNLVM.UNL.EDU>, UCPL081@UNLVM.UNL.EDU writes:
> I just picked up a '87 Colnago Master frameset real cheap.  Though it has
> no rust, it has a lot of scratches from clamps and from being transported
> a lot.  Anybody out there who has had experience with the many various firms
> out there like CycleArt (the only one I can recall)?  I want to know what
> kind of money I'll have to spend to get a simple one-color paint job done
> on the frame.  Also, will they clean the inside of the frame too?  Any info
> will be appreciated. Thanks,
>  
> Conrad R. Castaneda
> U of Nebraska-Lincoln

	If you're prepared to spend a little time,  and you only want a single
colour job,  I'd say do it yourself.  I did a frame-swap recently,  and it
just took a couple of days.  After dismantling the bike,  give it a good sand-
down.  You don't have to take all the paint off, just give it a uniform surface
for the new coat to grasp.  Hang the frame from your clothesline and let loose
with several light coats from a spray-can.  Enamel's not recommended,  try for
the tougher paint varieties you can get from a good hardware store.  After a 
day or so's drying time another few coats of clear finish,  plus waxing,  will
do wonders.
	Other than that,  car-painters have been known to do the job at a 
significantly cheaper rate yet with equal results (just don't let them do the
dismantling or reassembling!)

	There was also a good spread on frame-painters and their prices in a
copy of Bicycling a few months back.

Jonathan.

	
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: ken@visix.com (Ken Mayer)
Subject: Re: Knee problem
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:19:24 GMT
Reply-To: ken@visix.com
	<1OCT199209205250@xenon.arc.nasa.gov>
Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA


There are lots of things that can cause the kind of knee pain
described. It took a long time just to find a doctor who correctly
diagnosed my problem (not to fault the others, they just weren't
asking the right questions)! When I finally found one who had the
right idea, the improvement was nothing short of miraculous. 

My adivce? Take a conservative approach, back off a little so as not
to reinjure yourself. Talk to a sports med or physical therapist about
exercises that will maintain muscle tone while you recover (there is
no sense convalescing if you end up worse than when you started). And
if you don't like what you hear, or the if you're not improving as
fast as you think you should be, dump the doctor, find another, and
keep asking those "silly" questions. It's your money, demand
satisfaction. Above all else, listen to what your own body is telling
you. It's the best diagnostic tool you've got.


Ken
--

Ken Mayer (ken@visix.com)
Visix Software Inc./703.758.8230
  Bene Vivere Ultio Optima --- Living Well is the Best Revenge
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: stecko@cntrol.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: FAX No. of Bike Store in Pittsburgh needed !!
Reply-To: stecko@cntrol.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:21:32 GMT



	Wolfgang,

	  Here's some info on Pittsburgh area bike shops that I grabbed off
	the net a while ago.  I'm from Butler which is north of Pittsburg,
	but now live in Boston, so I won't be able to look up any info for
	you, like Fax numbers.  Enjoy.

	Ted

In article <1992Jul31.140527.24025@sei.cmu.edu>, rnk@sei.cmu.edu (Rick Kazman) writes:
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Subject: Re: Ways to alleviate wind-in-ear noise?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:44:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.102857.16140@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> mike@drseus.jsc.nasa.gov (mike) writes:
>Has anyone seen anything that DOES make it possible to hear anything
>while going 20 mph on a bike?  Perhaps earmuffs of microphone foam?

I've heard that a cotton ball in each ear will do the trick--but
I haven't tried it.  Give it a try and let us know.

John_Ampe@att.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: boone@IDA.ORG (John Boone)
Subject: Re: Ways to alleviate wind-in-ear noise?
Organization: IDA, Alexandria, VA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 11:44:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.102857.16140@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Michael L. Ross says 

> [...]
> Has anyone seen anything that DOES make it possible to hear anything
> while going 20 mph on a bike?  Perhaps earmuffs of microphone foam?

I've found that turning one ear so that it faces the direction of travel
helps a lot.  (It seems to eliminate the noise caused by turbulance.)
Of course, it also prevents you from seeing where you're going, so use
this method sparingly and with caution  :-)

> [...]
> While I'm wishing, is there any way to hear well AND listen to headphones?
> [...]

Mike - I don't want to rain on your's or anyone else's parade, but using
headphones (especially at any kind of volume) has been shown to cause
measurable and progressive hearing loss.  I enjoy music as much as anybody,
which is one reason I don't use headphones much anymore.  I don't really
think it's technically feasible to hear both loud and soft sounds
simultaneously. 

> 
> Mike 'I need a bike route that's downhill each way' Ross

What, you've never tried the Escher Bike Path?  :-)

	--John
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Subject: Re: Road bikes in the winter.
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 02:10:58 GMT

Terry Thiel (tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu) writes:

> I'd like to keep riding my road bike in the winter.
> ...
> Is it at all possible to continue riding when it gets 30 or 40 degrees?
> ...
> I think I could dress OK for the cold but the wind is another story.

I sure hope it's okay to ride road bikes in the winter, because I have and
do. I generally dress as if I were going X-country skiing, then add a layer
of wind-resistant something-or-other. Currently my favorite outer items are
a Pearl Izumi Silmond jacket (the brilliant yellow/green color), usually
over 1 or 2 capilene shirts, and a pair of old Hind Goretex panelled
tights. Down to about 30 degrees I can get away with just a fleece earband
under the helmet. Booties, long-fingered gloves, clear glasses.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.misc:669 rec.bicycles.soc:371
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: DO YOU shower after a commute?
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:01:51 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.misc

In article <1992Sep28.143414.15731@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, pwyc@cbnewse.cb.att.com (peter.w.chen) writes:
> So, my question to those who live in other parts of the world: do you find
> showering facilities a big issue in bike commuting?  Is that more important
> than, say, better parking facilities and safer routes?

Well, here in most humid DC, I find shower facilities essential.  My commute
is only 9 miles (25 minutes on a good day) and the hills aren't much to
woory about, but I still arrive simply drenched most of the summer.
It's usuaaly humid enough here in the summer that just walking 4 or 5
blocks will defeat the nastiest anti-perspirent.  I find that for the
shower to do any good, I have to cool off for 10 or 20 minutes first -
otherwise I'm still sweating after the shower.  I'm not out of shape or
overweight, but perhaps I sweat more than some others.  Anyway, I
scream real loud whenever anything threatens my access to a shower at work.

My route is possibly the safest I could want.  I live on a cul-de-sac,
I ride to the next cull-de-sac and onto a bike trail.  Then it's all
bike trail (Virginia's WO&D and Custis trails) until the last mile, and
that's a designated bike route - wide with low traffic.  As far as
parking facilities, I insisted on taking the bike into my office.
Security gets nasty about it once in awhile, but it eventually blows
over.  If I had to give one up, it would be the route, because I think
I can bike safely on roads.  But I would miss having a bike trail,
especially since this one has no stops to interrupt it along my commute
(kind of a bike freeway, with pedestrians and dogs and rollerbladers,
but better than lots of unfriendly intersections).  If I had to give
two up, I might get another job.


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: danr@ais.org (Daniel Romanchik)
Subject: Re: Bikecentennial
Organization: UMCC
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:47:56 GMT

In article <v5_pcbj.bob@netcom.com> bob@netcom.com (Bob Becker) writes:
>Does anybody know if Bikecentennial is still operating?
>
>Over a month ago I sent a check for some information, and the
>check was cashed, but I never received the information.
>
   I believe so.  I just received a membership renewal form from them
last week.

Have fun, Dan
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Tuesday, 6 Oct 1992 09:00:42 PST
From: <TOM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: My Bike on Cal Train

  On Sunday, Oct 4, I took my road bike on Cal Train to test the system.  The
Conductor was very polite, asked me for my permit and train ticket and told
me to take the bike all the way to the rear of the car.  I was the only passeng
er in that car, boarding at the Tamien Station in San Jose. I brought the bike
in, rear wheel first, which was a good move, making it easier getting out.
I rested the bicycle against two seats standing in the isle and was surprised
to see how steady it was while the train was in motion.
  In San Jose, we picked up more passangers and overheard a comment "Oh no,
they're allowing bicycles on Cal Train!"  At the Santa Clara station, another
bicycle boarded, along with more passangers.  Two bicycles take up quite
a lot of room, I could't imagine four bicycles in one car.  Then, My wish
came true at the Mountain View station, two more bicycles with saddle bags
and touring gear.  I explained to the two arrivals that it would be best that
board at the next stop.  I told the two boarding bicylist that it would be
I squeeze through the front, being that I was to get off at the next stop,
they agreed. What a mess, after rubbing butts and making sure I didn't scratch
anything, I finally made it to the exit.
  The Exit has two chrome vertical post, with about three feet between them,
not the mention two steep steps to deal with, just great for cleat shoes.
Lucky for me, my bicycle is light, I grabed the seatpost with one hand and
the chrome rail with the other and prayed I didn't slip so the oncomming
passanger would get a good laugh.  Non slip shoes would be a blessing.
After doing business in Palo Alto, I had the option of taking the train
home, but since it was such a nice day, I decided to ride, probably a good
choice.
  Removing the last three seats on both sides of the car, and replacing them
with two bike racks might be a good move, but I'll wait to see what Cal Train
has planned. Someday I may get brave and try the system again, but until then,

                                                    I'll pedal,
                                                       Tom
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: ken@visix.com (Ken Mayer)
Subject: Re: Road bikes in the winter.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:24:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: ken@visix.com
	<1992Oct1.174714.14012@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA


Well besides protecting the body, what about the bike. I've had my
bike slip out from underneath on a patch of black ice (straight, not
turning). Will a change in tire tread help at all (if it's possible to
acquire)? Are brakes affected by cold? I was biking through a driving
rain two weekends ago and learned first hand how much braking power
you lose on wet rims. 

Ken

--

Ken Mayer (ken@visix.com)
Visix Software Inc./703.758.8230
  Bene Vivere Ultio Optima --- Living Well is the Best Revenge
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.misc:665 rec.bicycles.soc:366
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Monday, 28 Sep 1992 14:07:24 PST
From: <TOM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: DO YOU shower after a commute?

When I was in middle school back in 67', my gym coach use to make us shower
after a good work-out.  Gym class use to be right before lunch, so in order
to get out earlier and in the front of the lunch line, some of us would take
what the coach called "spit bath", that's Right Guard spray deorderant after
a good towel down, which use to really piss off the poor old coach.  After
a few months, more kids caught on and the whole cafteria smelled like Right
Guard.  Today I use Right Guard stick deorderant after a bike ride, it lighter
and fits in my seat bag.
                                              Tom
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: The Tao of falling off a bike
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:47:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Sep30.214759.15439
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <BvE0nB.4tG@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> mark3@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Mark Magennis) writes:

>I have heard many times that in the event of any impact (car, bike, falling
>off a wall,...) it's best to remain relaxed. It's supposed to absorb the 
>impact. It's said that stiffening up is more likey to lead to broken bones.
>Is this an old spouses tale or is there some evidence for it, apart from the
>wise sayings of a Chinese sage?

I grew up naturally clumsy. And with two brothers there was _lots_
of fighting. Then add to this that I am white and went to Castlemont
High School in Oakland, CA. (means that I got into a fight _every_
day) you can see that I got lots of practice falling down.

Martial arts training didn't really teach me to fall any better than
I already knew how to do. But it taught me not to make such awful
faces. :-)

Saying that you should remain relaxed when an automobile is striking
you is a bit much though. Dangerous accidents tend to happen so
fast that you don't even know they're happening until afterwards.
So you don't have time to tense up or relax.

Remember, a car traveling at 50 mph covers 88 feet in a second,
you can observe and react in about .2 seconds. So, in this time
a car has already traveled 17 feet -- by the time it is obvious
that a car is going to hit you, you have already been hit.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc