HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pef@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Panayotis Fouliras; TA PhD)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Help with typing Greek on English keyboard...
Date: 18 Dec 92 03:28:14 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

I am afraid you won't get what you want. You see, there is no
Greek alphabet in ASCII, so (as you very well put it) we use
phonetic/letter equivalents (especially in bit.listserv.hellas,
which is almost 100% in Greek), that are non standard.

"Penia texnas katergazetai!"

Egw xrisimopoiw to gramma "w" gia to Elliniko "Wmega", alla
alloi protimoun to "o", for example, so...

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to all.

Panayotis
--
UUCP:      pef@qmw-dcs.uucp  | Computer Science Dept    | "H Rwmania
Internet:  pef@dcs.qmw.ac.uk | QMW University of London |  kai an
JANET:     pef@uk.ac.qmw.dcs | Mile End Road            |  eperasen,
Voice:     +44 71 975 5220   | London E1 4NS            |  anthei kai
FAX:       +44 81 980 6533   |                          |  ferei kai
Cellphone: Too expensive to fit                            allon"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: vh@cs.columbia.edu (Vasileios Hatzivassiloglou)
Subject: Re: Turkish minority in Greece ????
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:16:56 GMT

In article <1go0g8INN6aj@TERMINATOR.AI.CS.YALE.EDU> tsiout%thailand@cs.yale.edu (Dimitris Tsioutsias) writes:
>So, you that support the above view, can you tell me how is it
>then than an "oppressed" minority in Greece can elect 2 representatives
>into the greek parliament? How many Armenians or Kurds does the 

That was a mistake... proper care has been taken so that embarassing
minority MPs will not be elected again.

>turkish parliament have? Since Kurds are 20% of the Turkish population
>I would expect a reasonable number between 12-30, right??
>
>
>->dimitris

Comparison with the far worse record of Turkey does not exonerate Greece;
it is a shame that a country with such a glorious history of civilization
cannot come to terms with respecting human rights for minorities, but
instead denies them things as their ethnic identity. This kind of short-
sighted policy was a much more important factor in alienating the Turkish/
Muslim minority and elevating to prominence uncompromising fanatics such
as Sadik than any encouragement from the turkish side.


- Vasilis.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,sci.classics
From: varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine)
Subject: Re: Pronounciation of Greek names...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:14:57 GMT

cla02@keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace) writes:

>Just to make life complicated, in some forms of Greek writing the sigma
>is written a bit like our c. This has been adopted by some modern
>scholars (we call it the lunate sigma) especially by epigraphists who do
>not want to beg questions about where words end.

In many byzantine icons (even today icons painted with this style), 's'
is indeed written with a 'c' (e.g. Xrictoc).  Was the use of 'c' continued
since antiquity, or was the letter acquired back from the West?

>Richard Wallace

-- 
Constantinos Varnavas
University of Illinois
From: bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin)
Subject: Re: turk-o-phonics
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:26:52 GMT

In article <9212161623.AA19758@kocrsw06.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>Besime,
>
>I'd *greatly* appreciate if you abandon turk-o-phonics as a method of
>debate.  Not that I particularily care about it, but I have little
>respect for argument-less teenagers pretending to 'fullfil their
>intellectual and emotional needs' on USENET by thinking they can
>intimidate people by molesting their names...
>
>Having been in this country for 10 years (and having dealt with an almost
>infinite number of idiotic teenagers working as supermarket cashiers,
>all making cute remarks about Tri*'s name) I pretty much have learned to
>ignore comments regarding Tri*. 

It doesn't seem like you have, since you have made the effort to write
this big-deal type thing article.
 
Do nicknames scare you or something ?

>
>If you wish to be classified as an idiotic teenager with an internet 
>account, please do continue. If you wish to be treated like an adult,

As if I care.....

>on the other hand, i'd suggest a bit of respect towards other people's
>attributes, be it religion, hair color, weight, or name. 

As if you saying this will make a difference...

I will quit it(as I have written to you by personal E-mail) ONLY because
I feel it's appropriate not because what you wrote affected me in any way.


Besime Erin

>
>Regards,
>
>Spiros
>--
>chicken sig unavailable today; i'm fasting   c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis)
Subject: Re: Continuation on CYPRUS, Palikaria Terrorists and Makarios!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:47:50 GMT
Keywords: Palikaria, Enosis, PKK, Troodos Mts, South Cyprus


Some excerpts from previous postings:
B. Erim:
>>>>Unless there are grass roots changes in the attitudes of most(not all) Greek
>>>>Cypriots, a solution in Cyprus is impossible. 
>>>
M. Syrimis:
>>>And just for the sake of conversation what do you think should 
>>>change by either side in order for a solution to be possible?
O. Basan:
>>Simple. As soon as the Greek Cypriot side changes their Enosis (union of
>>Cyprus with Greece) dreams, treat Turkish Cypriots as their equal partners
>>rather than a minority, and get rid of all their high technology guns and
>>weapons, rockets and missiles, and put the Palikaria Sampson back into his 
>>cage, then a solution MAY be possible. But remember the following:

How about any changes from the Turkish Cypriot side?
Don't you think that "some" of them are necessary too?

For instance, recognition of the right of refugees to return
to their homes and properties, the freedom of property, the
freedom of movement.
On all of the above Mr. Denktash agreed with Mr. Vassiliou in 
August, but then he changed his mind in October.


-- 
Michalis Syrimis
University of Illinois
Urbana-Champaign

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: iptsiant@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de (Panagiotis Tsiantopoulos)
Subject: Re: Where does Spiros Triantalfywyrxposlfgs@$*&%^ etc. come from??
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:11:17 GMT
Organization: Universitaet Bielefeld, Technische Fakultaet.
Keywords: none

In article <9212092233.AA01357@grad.math.waterloo.edu>, bozkurt@grad.math.waterloo.edu (Bozkurt Celik) writes:
|> A woman goes to her doctor to talk about sex...
|>  
|> Woman:  My boyfriend loves to have anal sex, but i'm concerned about
|>         getting pregnant.  Can I get pregnant if we have anal sex?
|>  
|> Doctor:  Sure you can, where do you think Spiros come from!
|>  
|> BC.

3 women at the doctor 's, one of them Bozkurt Celik 's mother:

1st woman:
	Doctor, shall I give life to a boy or a girl?
Doctor:
	Where you upside or under your husband?
1st woman:
	I was under my man!
Doctor:
	O.k., it 'll be a girl.
2nd woman:
	Doctor, shall I give life to a boy or a girl?
Doctor:
	What was your position?
2nd woman:
	I was upside!
Doctor:
	O.k., it 'll be a boy.
Bozkurt Celik 's mother begins crying.

Doctor:
	Oh, Mrs. Celik, what is your problem??
Bozkurt Celik 's mother:
	I shall give life to a dog!!!

(not a very good joke, though I think it fits...)

-- 
Panos Tsiantopoulos.
From: cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Byzantine Name Help Needed
Date: 20 Dec 1992 07:56:05 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I am working on a book about Byzantium for Steve Jackson Games, and one
thing I need is a list of common Byzantine given names, for both men and
women.  Anybody with suggestions about where I should look, please e-mail
me since I'm not on the net as much as I'd like.

(Sorry, no flames in this post.  I don't feel like flaming anyone, and I
just have a question I want answered.)
Efkharisto!
-- 
It is caffeine alone that sets my mind in motion.  It is through beans of
java that thoughts acquire speed, that hands acquire shakes, that shakes
become a warning...I am...IN CONTROL...OF MY ADDICTION!
---From the Minicon Graffiti Wall, 1989(?)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: muskudar@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Michael Uskudarli)
Subject: help needed...
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 10:27:28 GMT

 Howdy,

I am in dire need of some Greek curse words. About half a dozen will suffice.
please send them to my personal e-mail...

BTW, how are AET and Panathikos(sp) coming along. They were quite good once.
are they still so?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin)
Subject: Re: Contiunuation on CYPRUS
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:41:42 GMT

In article <Bz20Gs.3Lw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis) writes:
>bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin) writes:
>
>
>Very disappointed

What are you disappointed about ?

The fact that you HAVE NO CHANCE of getting North Cyprus back unless you
start behaving right ?!!!!

>Michalis Syrimis
>
>-- 
>Michalis Syrimis
>University of Illinois
>Urbana-Champaign
>

Besime Erin
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11397 sci.classics:1141
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,sci.classics
From: ccc@cs.toronto.edu ("Christina C. Christara")
Subject: Re: Pronounciation of Greek names...
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:07:43 GMT

In article <Bz3opI.2E6@dutiws.twi.tudelft.nl> wiltinkm@dutiws.twi.tudelft.nl (M. Wiltink.a73A.telnr-015-138378) writes:
>It seems to me that most, if not all of the people here start with
>English renderings of Latinised versions of Greek names and then
>wonder where things went wrong.

I agree.
>
>The Greeks had no such letter as the c. They had sigma, which poses
>no problems and becomes s, and kappa, k. This is where most of the
>trouble starts. Most Greek words passed on to recent times came via
>Latin. Latin, however, had no (well, almost no) k and used c, pronounced
>...k. Then modern languages started pronouncing c as either s or k,
>depending on what letter followed it.

I agree, with a minor comment.
I think the (ancient) Greeks had 2 alphabets, which were very similar
to each other. One was called western or Chalkidean (by people from
Chalkis) and the other eastern or Ionian (by people from Asia Minor,
centered in Miletos).
I think (but I am not sure) that the western had a 'c'.
But Athens at some point around 400 BC decided to adopt the eastern-
Ionian alphabet and drove all Greeks in that way. The western-Chalkidean
alphabet was used as basis for the Latin alphabet (indirectly
through the Etruscan one?). Todays Greek alphabet is the eastern-Ionian
one, with the lower case letters developed later.

[rest of message deleted, in general I agree with you]

>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>wiltinkm@dutiws.twi.tudelft.nl
>Maarten Wiltink
>
>Department of Applied Mathematics and Computer Science
>Delft University of Technology
>The Netherlands

C. Christara

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: lecture by prof. whatshisname (LONG)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:13:21 GMT
Keywords: Palikaria, Enosis (Unioin of Cyprus with Greece), Vasiliou 

baysan@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Okan Baysan) writes:

>The recognition of Republic of Macedonia is being blocked just like the
>recognition of TRNC. In both cases, Greek claims are similar if not exactly
>the same.

 This is a joke, right?

>Cheers,
>Okan Baysan.

 Panos
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11438 soc.culture.turkish:13010 soc.culture.croatia:57
From: pavlovic-milan@yale.edu (Milan Pavlovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.croatia
Subject: What happened to Hasan B-) Mutlu?
Date: 13 Dec 1992 11:44:09 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

  Am I the only one who caught this, or does everyone else just have Argic in
their kill file?  In one of his articles last week, here is what Argic wrote:

........................
>From cs.yale.edu!yale!gumby!wupost!uunet!anatolia.mn.org!zuma!sera Sun Dec  6 12:20:07 EST 1992
Article: 17365 of soc.culture.greek
Xref: cs.yale.edu soc.culture.turkish:24826 talk.politics.mideast:68486 talk.politics.soviet:19665 soc.culture.greek:17365 soc.culture.europe:14570 soc.history:17594 soc.culture.soviet:13283 soc.culture.german:15620
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.german
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: We must strive to keep the memory of this tragedy alive, "Jorgensen".
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 92 13:04:52 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <user-051292011651@hf-mac16.uio.no> user@computer.uio.no (PC Jorgensen) writes:

>what is the point of all these countless articles_

A genocide is a deliberate and organized massacre of people in an 
attempt to exterminate a race. This is the worst crime in history. 
It happened to the Turks in eastern Anatolia and the Armenian 
dictatorship. 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were killed in the worst 
ways imaginable. It is sickening to think that the human race is capable 
of such actions, but there is no denying the fact that the Armenian 
genocide of 2.5 million Muslims happened.

People of Turkey deeply sympathize with those whose relatives were 
	  ~~~~~~
killed in the Turkish genocide. I understand their anger that there 
are those "arromdians" who still deny that the Turkish genocide indeed 
<stuff deleted>
Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
.........................

  Now I KNOW that Hasan would never make such a tragic mistake of (mis)spelling
his country's name like that, would you Hasan? Of course not, he always writes
Turkiye! Does this mean that Nikos Gavrieletas has fulfilled his promises :-) ?

Regards,
Milan
===============================================================================
		M A C E D O N I A  =  H E L L A S
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis)
Subject: Re: Continuation on CYPRUS
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:38:59 GMT

bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin) writes:

>In article <Bz20Gs.3Lw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis) writes:
>>bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin) writes:
>>
>>
>>Very disappointed

>What are you disappointed about ?

>The fact that you HAVE NO CHANCE of getting North Cyprus back unless you
>start behaving right ?!!!!

Is this a sample from your "honest and sincere" discussion you are    
having lately with another Greek Cypriot.

My disappointment had to do with the impression I had about you.
In the past you were projecting your self as willing to 
discuss the real issues, putting aside phanatism and 
pseudo patriotism.   

As for OUR CHANCES of getting our COUNTRY back from your loving,
and caressing alies (you see you are not the ones who have it now), just
have the following CYPRIOT saying in mind:

"Ev' va girisei n pita me to meli, tjai tha tnv fate dixws meli"
" The pie with the honey may flip over, and then you'll have to eat it
without honey"

>>Michalis Syrimis

>Besime Erin
-- 
Michalis Syrimis
University of Illinois
Urbana-Champaign

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: Re: MAKEDONIA - What's in a name (3/5)
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 14:30:14 GMT

Hariklia Delta (deltah@ccs.northeastern.edu) writes:
>My point exactly! Since "Macedonia", "Macedonian" and "Macedonians"
>(in the sense you are giving to these words of course), as you just
>admitted, have absolutely nothing to do with the corresponding ancient
>ones, then why should this new state called "Macedonia"?

Here you are mistaken. The languages are unrelated but not the geo-
graphical areas.

>Wouldn't it be better (and more reasonable) if you found a name that has
>something to do with your people?
>...
>Why don't you call yourself "Republic of Incas"?

I'm sorry, but it won't work. Although I'm principally against
monarchy myself, the Swedes in general seems to be royalists,
so calling Sweden Republic of anything is doomed to fail.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: the memory of 2.5 million is not that silent
Date: 14 Dec 1992 09:12:54 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Arxid) writes:
re: "Schuerzinger" insults the silent memory of 2.5 million Muslim people.

Arxid Bey,

judging from the amount of crap coming out of your account, I do not
find the memory of the '2.5 million' people that silent.

In fact, I have a good reason to believe that they've all risen from 
the dead and started reading and posting news, all using your user-id...

Bah Bah Bah

Spiros
--
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    "Ne mutlu anti-Argic diyene ?
c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com                 Ne mutlu anti-Mutlu diyene !"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: scg@bashan.cs.wisc.edu ( Scg)
Subject:  BOZKURT CELIC I FUCK YO' MAMA!!!!
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:48:13 GMT

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Forwarded message follows:

From ucnick%umuc.bitnet@harvard.harvard.edu  Thu Dec 10 21:43:10 1992
Received: from cs.wisc.edu by bashan.cs.wisc.edu; Thu, 10 Dec 92 21:43:10 -0600
Message-Id: <9212110343.AA04277@cs.wisc.edu>
Received: from harvard.harvard.edu by cs.wisc.edu; Thu, 10 Dec 92 21:43:07 -0600
Received: by harvard.harvard.edu (5.54/a0.25)
	(for soc-culture-greek-post@cs.wisc.edu) id AA20106; Thu, 10 Dec 92 22:42:58 EST
Date: Thu, Dec 10 1992 10:12:21 EST
From: Nick Gavrielatos <ucnick%umuc.bitnet@harvard.harvard.edu>
To: soc-culture-greek-post
Subject: BOZKURT CELIC I FUCK YO' MAMA!!!!

Bozkurt Celic's mama came to me: Niki-baby, I am in heat...

Me: Me fix you good, me fuck you all time...

Bozkurt Celic's mama: but Niki baby, I need some for my face-skin..

Me: oh, no worry, me come on your face too, your face be baby-skin 
    for life!


25 some years later...

Bozkurt-Giaourt, me fuck you too now...

Relax, 'son'..... me use valvoline to lower pain in you...


Nick Gavrielatos
To Sixameno Plasma
ucnick@umuc.bitnet 


Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11616 sci.classics:1170
From: cla02@keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,sci.classics
Subject: Re: Pronounciation of Greek names...
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:17:27 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Christina C. Christara (ccc@cs.toronto.edu) wrote:
: >trouble starts. Most Greek words passed on to recent times came via
: >Latin. Latin, however, had no (well, almost no) k and used c, pronounced
: >...k. Then modern languages started pronouncing c as either s or k,
: >depending on what letter followed it.
: 
: I agree, with a minor comment.
: I think the (ancient) Greeks had 2 alphabets, which were very similar
: to each other. One was called western or Chalkidean (by people from
: Chalkis) and the other eastern or Ionian (by people from Asia Minor,
: centered in Miletos).
: I think (but I am not sure) that the western had a 'c'.
: But Athens at some point around 400 BC decided to adopt the eastern-
: Ionian alphabet and drove all Greeks in that way. The western-Chalkidean
: alphabet was used as basis for the Latin alphabet (indirectly
: through the Etruscan one?). Todays Greek alphabet is the eastern-Ionian
: one, with the lower case letters developed later.
: 
: [rest of message deleted, in general I agree with you]
: 
: >------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is almost, but not quite, right.

There were in fact many Greek alphabets. I suspect every city had its
own variant. and even within cities there is not total consistency. They
do, however, fall into families, and the division between east and west
is significant.

The origin of the letter c is rather odd. The Romans got their alphabet
from the Etruscans, who got it from the Greeks. There is a dispute as to
whether the alphabet the Etruscans adopted was a west or east Greek
alphabet. Common sense would suggest that they got it from the nearest
Greeks to them, those in Cumae, who used a variant of the west Greek
alphabet. On the other hand, the occasional use of the east Greek letter
samech is evidence against this view. It was not, however, the Athenian
alphabet; it contained, for example, the letter Koppa, which became the
ancestor of our Q. Etruscan did not distinguish between voiced and
unvoiced gutturals (K and G), and so used both of those letters for the
same sound. The Romans, however, did (like us) make the distinction, but
instead of doing the rational thing and reinstating the original uses of
the Greek letters, they marked the gamma to signify when it was
unvoiced. So: C is originally a gamma (write a capital gamma leaning a
bit and you will see how it happened); G is a gamma with a marker to
show that it really is a gamma. And that is why the Roam alphabet
acquired 3 letters for the same sound: K,C and Q. 

Just to make life complicated, in some forms of Greek writing the sigma
is written a bit like our c. This has been adopted by some modern
scholars (we call it the lunate sigma) especially by epigraphists who do
not want to beg questions about where words end.

Richard Wallace
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek