HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Cornish Wrestling & Judo
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:37:00 +0000



>I've notice that photos of Cornish wrestling around 1900 show them
>wearing heavy jackets that look a lot like Judo tops.  This leads to
>a couple questions:
>
>1.  Who used these jackets first?
>2.  Could sailors/travellers from Cornwall have influenced Kano's
>    choice of gi?  Or vice versa?
>3.  Are there any books on Cornish Wrestling (by the way, I've seen
>    this described in Normandy as Gaelic Wrestling)?
>
>Dakin
>burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu


I know next to nothing about Cornish Wrestling but I seem to remember
seeing a TV program about it some years ago. Correct me if I'm wrong
but I think it is very similar to Sumo. A rope is put in a large circle
(much larger than the sumo ring) and the contestants try to push each
other out of the ring or to throw them.


Did I get that right or have I been watching too much sumo?


Bill Burgar - Confused of England.
From: rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Chuck Norris Sells Deodorant
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:20:52 MST
Distribution: world
Organization: Banzai Institute

I tuned into a tv channel tonight in the midst of Chuck Norris doing
something. Thinking it was one of his movies, I let play for a
moment, to play "which movie is this one".  But it wasn't a movie.
It was a commercial. He was plugging deeeeee   ...   dddeeee

I can't say it. I must. He was selling deoooooo


		DEODORANT!

First he gives George Bush a black belt, now this...

Richard Travsky
Division of Information Technology     RTRAVSKY @ CORRAL.UWYO.EDU
University of Wyoming                  (307) 766 - 3663 / 3668
"You shot an unarmed man!" "He shoulda armed himself."  _Unforgiven_
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bobk2@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM (Bob Kyweriga)
Subject: Judo in Minneapolis area
To: rec.martial-arts
Posted-Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 15: 40:22 CDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:40:22 GMT
Received-Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 15: 40:02 CDT

        
        Can anyone supply me with information about judo dojos
        in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area?

        Especially interested in organizations that have sessions
        where kids ( 10 - 13 ) can participate.

        Thanks in advance.

        Please post a reponse here or reply by sending mail to:
        bobk2@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM

        Typing r to respond won't work.         
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: In memoriam
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:37:46 GMT

Please forgive this not-quite-approprite-to-MA posting, but since many of you
are my net.friends I thought I would impose upon you with this.

I just learned that a co worker of mine, Jessica Um, was killed this morning
after losing control of her automobile and colliding head on with another
vehicle.  I'm very sad to hear this.  She was a very pleasant and hard working
person.  Please give her memory and whatever may have survived a kind thought
and wish, if you can.  Thanks.

	-Andy Vida-Szucs
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: kyokunshikai karate ???
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:03:02 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <60047@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>first class. I've also seen a film of a Kyokushinkai black belt going
>one on one with a black bear. (I think that's highly unethical, but it
>is impressive.) 

      I too have seen the film of Willy Williams figthing a Pennsylvanian
      Black Bear.  It is a very sick bit of filmwork.  The bear appears
      to be stunned and slow from too many days in a cage without food
      or water.  The bear also seems unable to even scratch Mr. Williams
      with his freshly trimmed? toes and teeth.  In fact the bear seems
      more confused by the attack then anything.  It comes across real
      pathetic.  

      The film also shows training scenes that seem very brutal.  If 
      anything you have to admit that the Kyokushinkai group can take
      a sensei lick'n and keep on tick'n.

-- 
Robert Stroud
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Western Boxing, how 'imprecise' is it ?
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:37:17 +0000

Just a few words to back up Todd on the boxing thread.


The main reason that I watch boxing is because I admire their skill
at slipping and doging *very accurate* punches. The simple reason that
they may look imprecise is that the opponent is equally skilled at 
"not being there" at the right time.


In any art the practitioners will develop the required skill to deal with
the greatest threats. In boxing you need not only to be able to punch hard
but also with great accuracy and also to dodge the punches being thrown
at you.


Put a karate man and a boxing man in a ring *with the same amount of 
experience* measured in years, say, and don't let the karateman kick and
I would put my money on the boxer every time. And thats coming from a
karateman!


Ken Ferguson writes
>      Todd; I agree with you 100%. I train at the Jet Center and have the opportunity
>to train with THE BEST in all styles of self defense. Everyone from Benny the Jet
>Urquidez,to Bill 'Super Foot" Wallace have told me that my prior traditional
>Karate training is very ineffective as far as modern day self defense is concerned.
>
>  My first day of training found me standing in a traditional front stance. Benny asked
>me if  I was ready. I said yes, and ended up on my padded side. He then
>told me that my traditional Karate blocks and stances were leaving me
>wide open. When I think back on it now I must have looked pretty silly,
>standing there with my forward fist out in
>front of me and my power fist cocked back on my hip.
>
>  Don't get me wrong I respect my Karate training and wouldn't trade the experience
>for anything. But after watching the Pros combine traditional Karate with American
>style boxing,it has certainly opened my mind for further study. You see all the
>instructors at the Jet Center have black belts of various degrees of their own
>and will be the first to tout the advantages of traditional Karate. All
>they want to do is
>take Karate one step further. I think there was  someone named Bruce something that
>tried the same thing.


Ken, be careful not to confuse basic "beginners" karate with traditional
karate. The basic blocks, strikes etc have to be learned, and because of
the large class sizes they are learned in a fairly militaristic fashion.
However, that is not how a good karateka fights.


Bill Burgar.
From: snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking?
Date: 1 Sep 92 11:44:48 GMT
Organization: NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE CENTER

Graeme Bennett writes:
>Competitive karateka are often weak.  They train to spar and not to
>kill.  People who follow the way do not subject themselves to debasing
>events such as tournaments where the individual is only after fame or
>money.

Ho, HO, HO, Chuckle, snort, giggle, wheeze

Well I doubt that that I am competitive :-) and I'm a TKDer
vis a karateka, but I am not weak.  The TKDers I know who are competitive
are seriously NOT weak.

It is certainly true we do not train to kill.  Does this make you
strong?  Is it just the training to kill or do you actually have to
kill?  Is it like the highlander, each time you kill, you get a big
rush of power?

If I was going to train to kill, I think I would spend more time with
my guns instead of trying to sell most of them!   I would have said
with my machetes, but recent empirical evidence suggests, they are not
the most effective method of killing, though they work well for the
reverse.

> not subject themselves to debasing events such as tournaments
I have to agree with you a lot of tournaments are very debasing (especially
the really big ones like states)  as I prepare to put one on, OCT 24, I
shall keep this firmly in mind and strive to do better, a smaller, more
enriching tourney if you will.
   
> People who follow the way...
Which way?

                               __|__
                                 |
			         |
                                 |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk (Aurelio Barranco)
Subject: Re: Chuck Norris Sells Deodora
Reply-To: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 07:10:25 +0000


> I tuned into a tv channel tonight in the midst of Chuck Norris doing
> something. Thinking it was one of his movies, I let play for a
> moment, to play "which movie is this one".  But it wasn't a movie.
> It was a commercial. He was plugging deeeeee   ...   dddeeee
> 
> I can't say it. I must. He was selling deoooooo
> 
> 
>                 DEODORANT!
> 
> First he gives George Bush a black belt, now this...
> 

Well if you train real hard .... you need the deodorant.
Goes hand in hand with aquiring a black belt :)

Aurelio
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bush Black belt??!!!
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:38:48 GMT
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

>He *was* head o' the secret police for several years, it just may be
>possible that he's had some meaningful empty hand training. Ya just
>never know...

He was... but at the political-appointee level.  Even if you give
credit to the stories that his business ventures were a front for
CIA work, one doubts that he was much into the tactical end of things.
And one doubts that as an agency director he'd have had _time_ to earn 
a black belt, even if Gordon Liddy had served a work-release program 
by personally tutoring him in Po Pi Cock.

True, "you just never know" about _anybody_, but Bush seems about as
deadly as your average 70-year-old lifelong weekend athlete who is
nearing retirement from an office career and may have taken the odd
karate lesson.

One might also read Paul Fussell's book "Class." I suspect that in
Bush's social circles, you get your athletic jollies with golf or
sailing or tennis to your heart's content, but if you want somebody
punched you have the help do it.

Former SEAL Bob Kerry, late of the Democratic primary, is the politician
I wouldn't want asking me to remove my jacket and step into the Rose 
Garden (not that either he or I seems likely to be there).

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: gints@roadkill.esd.sgi.com (Gints Klimanis)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Stretching Exercises
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:53:44 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

I purchased Thomas Kurz's Flexibility Training Method, advertised in
Black Belt with him side-splitting on two chairs, mounted by a babe. 
Basically, he combines a 5 minute cardiovascular run/jump rope with
dynamic stretches.  After months of silly static stretching, this method
gives me a superior stretch in 15 minutes, including the run.  He also
outlines workouts for isometric stretching - stretching and contracting
the same muscle to increase flexibility.  

After two weeks on this minimal stretching maintenance program, I have
witnessed noticable gains in flexibility above and beyond those achieved
with a 20 minute/morning AND a 40 minute pre-workout stretch.

I would tell more, but Thom deserves $15.95 for his info-packed book. 
If you don't read the whole book,  you'll miss most of his key points.

Good luck.
From: esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Getsumei no michi
Date: 24 Aug 92 00:17:07 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1992Aug22.182933.11339@cs.rose-hulman.edu> acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
>
>has anyone heard of the phrase "Getsumei no michi"?

getsu_mei = moon_light
no = (possessive)
michi = way

--
********************************************************************
Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu    |  One chance.
From: gsinghma@reed.edu (Gaurav Singhmar)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Stretching Exercises
Keywords: Stretching, Isometric
Date: 3 Sep 92 08:15:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep3.081505.25394
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <MARY.92Sep1160455@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary  
Malmros) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Sep1.185344.16925@odin.corp.sgi.com>  
gints@roadkill.esd.sgi.com (Gints Klimanis) writes:
> 
>    I purchased Thomas Kurz's Flexibility Training Method, advertised in
>    Black Belt with him side-splitting on two chairs, mounted by a babe. 
>    Basically, he combines a 5 minute cardiovascular run/jump rope with
>    dynamic stretches.  After months of silly static stretching, this  
method
>    gives me a superior stretch in 15 minutes, including the run.  He  
also
>    outlines workouts for isometric stretching - stretching and  
contracting
>    the same muscle to increase flexibility.  
> 
> You need to be careful with dynamic or ballistic stretching, however.  
> A lotta folks believe that it's pretty easy to injure yourself with 
> this kind of stretching if you do it improperly (e.g., without warming
> up FIRST).  Static stretching has a pretty low risk of injury, but 
> it also doesn't seem to do as much for your flexibility.  My personal
> favorite is isometric stretching.
> 
> 
> --
>  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
----
>  Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA  
02139
>  mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink  
CAYMAN.TECH

I'm quite lost. Would someone kindly explain what dynamic and isometric  
stretching are? I have been lead to think (with no certain participation  
of my own) that ballistic stretching is what one does when one "bounces"  
in and out of the stretch. Am I misinformed?

- gaurav singhmar
gsinghma@reed.edu

"You must cut down the mightiest tree in the forest WITH... A HERRING!!"
[The Knights who no longer say "Ni", _Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grail_]
From: mwong@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Marilyn J Wong)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 22:25:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Basic Martial Arts
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

                 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: khc2674@zeus.tamu.edu (Bruce as my Shepherd)
Subject: Re: NEW MARTIAL ART FOR STREET NOT THE DOJO
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:01:00 GMT

In article <3SEP92.17561777@skyfox.usask.ca>, hayesj@skyfox.usask.ca writes...
>NOW THERE IS A MARTIAL ART DESIGNED FOR THE STREET NOT THE DOJO
>NOW THERE IS A MARTIAL ART DESIGNED FOR THE STREET NOT THE DOJO
>This new Martail Art deals with the reality and finality of street confontations

Ah,
	You undoubtedly refer to The way of Smith & Wesson.

Kuo Hau Chang  :)            7-star Praying Mantis            (:
Texas A&M      :)                Moi-Fah Mantis               (:
From: richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Can boxing skills handle kicking ?
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 21:35:47 GMT
Reply-To: parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Distribution: world
Organization: Masterful Enterprises UnLimited.


In article <memo.600677@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:

 > Todd Stark writes:
 > [interesting intro deleteded]
 > >        The exception is the use of leg kicks.  Leg kicks often turn the
 > >        tables, because western boxing has no concept of dealing with
 > >        low line attacks, and they are both physically and psychologically
 > >        intimidating.

 > High kicks are a relatively recent introducation to karate - particularly
 > since it became a Do rather than a jutsu. That's not to say that high
 > kicks don't work, they can, it's just better to aim low - instep, shins,
 > knees, inside and outside of the thigh, groin all are excellent targets
 > and very hard to block. The only way to stop them is by evaision.

Well.  Actually, there is another way that we at kyokushinkai have
developed, due to our knokdown tournaments.  We got tired of getting
slammed in the thing... ;)  So...

 > Take as an example the Kyokushinkai boys. In their knockdown tournaments
 > they stand very close (boxing range) and use leg deadening kicks to the
 > side of the opponents thigh to very good effect.

The thigh kick is a nice good one - it's fast, and your opponent can't
fight you if he can't walk, right? ;)

Right.  Blocking it?  What happens when you lift the lower half of you
leg so that the person attacking gets a nice chunk of hard shin instead
of a nice chunk of soft thigh? 8-)  Makes you think twice about kicking
there again. Simply lift your lower leg up an out - aim it toward the
incoming kick, otherwise you go _down_!  Careful - this position is
where you get footswept from.

There's lots of pros and cons on this - I'd like to hear some to bring
'em up at training.  Thanks.

Boxers wont do this, though - or at least, I aint seen it yet! 8-)

 > Having said that I still wouldn't like to face a boxer for real.

Hear hear!  They are quite good fighters, albiet somewhat limited... ;)
They have good punching combinations with good power, and if you don't
keep your guard up, you're going down.

Same as any trained fighter, really - or any fighter at all.  I'd rather
not fight 'em at all...
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: NEW MARTIAL ART FOR STREET NOT THE DOJO
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:47:23 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <3SEP92.17561777@skyfox.usask.ca> hayesj@skyfox.usask.ca writes:
>NOW THERE IS A MARTIAL ART DESIGNED FOR THE STREET NOT THE DOJO
>NOW THERE IS A MARTIAL ART DESIGNED FOR THE STREET NOT THE DOJO
>This new Martail Art deals with the reality and finality of street confontations

I see the freshmen have discovered Usenet.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cwc2328@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (C. Chou)
Subject: Yang style T'ai Chi players
Reply-To: cwc2328@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:38:34 GMT

Having recently joined the readership, I would like to know if other T'ai Chi
players are lurking out there, just reading through all this fun stuff, and if
they share my style of practice.

My lineage is through Cheng Man-Ching (died in 1974? in Taiwan), who was a
student of Yang Cheng Fu. Professor Cheng developed the Yang Short Form now
practiced in the U.S. He formed a school in NYC during the late 50's, I
believe, and my group descends from a student of his during that time.

I do the solo form, push hands, and sword form. I have been shown some da lu
but have little experience with it as our Rochester group doesn't practice it.

Anyone who wishes to may also send straight to my e-mail address here at
Rochester Institute of Technology.

Best regards to all.
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fencing
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:54:22 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <71859@apple.Apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>fencing experience interacts
>with other MA training.

For me, it really doesn't at all.  But then, I started fencing when I was only
taking an adult education self-defense course, and did (and do) all of my
martial arts now, with no fencing (except for the Renaissance festival
experience I related upstream).  I didn't really notice an MA coming out
during that bout, however.  I _do_ notice my various MA's "contaminating" one
another, though.

Al
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 13:58:47 -0400 
From: Edward Liu <el24+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Shotokan and Shotokai

[An Andrew ToolKit view (embedded text) was included here, but could not
be displayed.]
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Jonathan Dwyer)
Subject: The Martial Arts Genie
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: Psychology Department, UQ, Australia
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 04:44:39 GMT

Corey writes:
|> wharfie writes:
|> >
|> >	If the Genie of the Martial Arts appeared before me, and informed
|> >me that I'd won the Martial Arts Digest Sweepestakes, and 1st prize was
|> >my choice of 1/2 dozen OK kicking techniques or one hell of a left hook,
|> >*I'd* take the left hook...
|> >
|> Yeah, but what if the Genie offered you an OK left hook or one hell of
|> a kicking technique?  :)

Nah, all the Genie ever offered me was a pile of OK Greenoch techniques.  These
are all little known and more than a little unusual.  Here is a comprehensive list:
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Silent or vocal sparring?
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:55:38 GMT
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 23351@udel.edu, weigand@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Steve Weigand) writes:

..Some good stuff about why to, or not to kiai deleted...

>the kiai in sparring, but in real-life, I think I wouldn't for the simple
>reason that it would require that much extra thought.
>
>Comments anyone?

Just on this last part...Kiai's seem to be natural to me now...especially
on the block/strike that I know will start the "finish them off" combo.

	-Garth





			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: What is "Index Over Fist"
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:36:54 +0000



>Can someone please expain what an 'index finger over' fist is.
>I can't figure out what it is for sure, and that's making it
>VERY hard to follow these discussions.
>
>Thanks,  Corey


It's hard to describe in words but I'll give it a go...
You'll find pictures in Best Karate vol 1 or 2 (I don't remember
which) by Nakayama and also in Karate-do Kyohan by Funakoshi.


Start from an open hand and fold all fingers (except the index finger
and thumb) just as you would in a normal fist.
Then fold your index finger over so that it runs diagonally over the
top of the middle finger (pointing back down your arm). 
Now fold your thumb over the index finger.


The tip of the index finger ends up near the base of the thumb, and
the tip of the thumb ends up just on the middle finger.


Initially you will find that it feels large and unwieldy, but with
practice it has several advantages (mentioned previously in this 
tread).


I hope that gives you a rough idea. If you are still confused/want
to know more email me your address and I'll send you a copy of an
article I wrote in a magazine a few months back on the subject.


Bill Burgar.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Different Karate Fists
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:37:17 +0000

Steve Gombosi writes:
>1) when I make the fist this way, my forearms seem *slightly* more relaxed.
>   This might produce a somewhat faster punch and better focus.
>
>2) the knuckle of my middle finger seems to protrude a little more - this
>   would, I expect, result in a somewhat more effective punch since more
>   of the power would be concentrated on a smaller area.
>
>I'm still a little nervous about the safety of the index finger in this
>configuration. I guess I'll have to try it on the makiwara and see...
>
>Steve


I agree with both points. Don't worry about your index finger, I've
found that the thumb is the most vulnerable digit (in sparring). On
the Makiwara this fist is better than the standard IMHO.


Bill Burgar.


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts