HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rau@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Drivvt)
Subject: Re: Macintosh advocacy (really!)
Organization: Menzoberranzan Computer Networking 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:18:00 GMT

In article <ibhan.721943680@husc8> ibhan@husc8.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan) writes:
>bmccnnll@unix1.tcd.ie (Barry McConnell) writes:
>>In <6322.2b02a382@hayes.com> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
>
>>>Since Apple could easily use proportional scroll bars merely by including
>>>a new CDEF and a couple of toolbox calls, it doesn't necessarily follow
>>>that Apple wouldn't use them.
>
>>They could? Without breaking all existing Mac software? Would existing stuff
>>support it even if it didn't break? Sorry - I have already asked a Mac guru
>>friend myself, and he said it just wasn't possible to do. So one of you is
>>wrong. :)
>
	Absolutely.  The existing CDEF is passed a minimum and maximum value
for the scroll bar, and it returns a value proportional to the thumb's 
position between these.  A very simple addition would alter the size of the
thumb to reflect the relationship between the physical size of what's shown
and the virtual size of the window.  And, it would work with everything
(well, possibly with the exception of anything written by Microsoft ;)

-- 
Drivvt Daermon N'a'shezbaernon (Drow)   /\ Utah Saints? You mean Mormons, right?
Menzoberranzan  Computer  Networking /\/' \ Live for CPU time, die for CPU time.
rau@ucsu.colorado.edu               /' \'' \ Where would I be without IBM? InSoc
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ n''''' \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Resource fork saves space
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:20:22 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1992Nov16.045156.6051@cs.uow.edu.au>, u9147063@cs.uow.edu.au (Richard Barry Ling) writes:
> ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
> 
>> Here is an interesting factoid.  The Macintosh has, on average,
>> the smallest sized apps for any viable computer platform.
> 
> Where did you dig up this gem?
> 
>> Example:
>> WordPerfect  Mac ~4-5meg   Win3:10 MB  UNIX ~10 MB
> 
> Example:
> Excellence    Amiga    300k
> 
> (For the uninformed, Excellence is a word processor virtually identical to
> MS Word 4.)

Did you Amiga types forget how to read? He was specifically comparing
WordPerfect, not Word!

I could trot out a few Mac word processing applications that are significantly
smaller, too!


-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.
From: Jim.Redelfs@macnet.omahug.org (Jim Redelfs)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Comp.Sys.Mac.Advocacy Message Area
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:37:41 CST
Reply-To: jim.redelfs@macnet.omahug.org
Organization: Macnet Omaha
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy


This is the "Comp.Sys.Mac.Advocacy" message area.  Please confine discussion
to topics advocating Macintosh.

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JR
                              Jim Redelfs
                            System Operator


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: James D. Baeder <baeder@nas.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Macintosh advocacy (really!) SCROLL BARS
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A72FF9F4F102DCBA@nas-mac-186.nas.nasa.gov>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:47:32 GMT
Organization: U. S. Army Aeroflightdynamics Directorate
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:39:11 GMT

Re: Macintosh advocacy (really!) SCROLL BARS

In article <1992Nov17.202640.3774@news.Hawaii.Edu> The Big Color Wolf, 
guiyu@spectra.eng.hawaii.edu writes:

>2nd	I know that OS/2, Windows do not have _real-time_ scroll-bars in
_all_
>	applications. However, I do find that OS/2 and Windows 3.1 have
>	_real-time_ scroll_bars for desktop windows and file dialog windows.
>	(It would be a real CPU hog to have _real-time_ scroll-bars for
>	graphics-intensive applications, I concede) 
>		Since normally the desktop icons are not too complicated, it
>	might be possible to have _real-time_ scroll bars for the mac, this
>	does help not too little as it gives you precise control over when or
>	where to stop when you are, say, searching over a long list of
>	filenames or icons.

Do you realize that if you press on the up and down arrows 
in any window on the mac it will move in real time.  I realize
that this is not the same as scrolling in real time, but it 
should suffice for the case mentioned above.
From: tinsel@uiuc.edu (Thomas Aaron Insel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Resource fork saves space
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:46:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxsCxr.59K
Reply-To: tinsel@uiuc.edu
Organization: Masticating Illini
Originator: tai50080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

rau@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Drivvt) writes:

> In <83560@ut-emx.uucp> ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
> >Here is an interesting factoid.  The Macintosh has, on average,
> >the smallest sized apps for any viable computer platform.

> >Does the resource fork system have something to do with this?

> 	Not specifically.  They tend to be smaller because a huge chunk of
> the user interface code is standardized in ROM and in the system file.
> This is the first part.  The second part, I'm not sure about.  I've written
> a "Hello World"-like program on both machines, on the Mac using the
> default environment provided by Borland Turbo Pascal (80x25 col text wind),
> and the Mac app was _still_ smaller!  Anybody know why, more specifically?

I think 68k code is more compact than 80?86 code.
-- 
Thomas Insel (tinsel@uiuc.edu)
  "Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and 
   child." -- Vice President Dan Quayle
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Newton tech (was The future of Apple)
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:04:13 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX


[Deletia praising the Newton to the skies]

[Deletia saying to put Newton handwriting technology in every
electronic thing you can think of]

What if you have horrid handwriting like mine?  Then you cannot
program your VCR or use your thermostat.  :-(

-- 
********** ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) **********
Windows NT:                  * Disclaimer:  I speak for myself *
                             ***********************************
You WANT your hard drive trashed now.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: robertk@rkrajewski.lotus.com (Robert Krajewski)
Subject: Re: Multiple button mice vs keys(was:Macintosh advocacy (really!))
Organization: Lotus Development Corporation
	<1992Nov20.000816.5458@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
	<By0y12.CEv@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:09:11

If it is approached properly, using the second mouse button is
perfectly safe and eminently useful, just as using modifier keys can
be. On many new Windows apps (and some OS/2 apps), the second mouse
button brings up a menu of operations on the object underneath.  Since
this is a menu, nothing actually happens unless the user decides to
explore further.

On the Mac, having only one button complicates the use of an
object-oriented menu, because Shift is already taken. That leaves
Command and Option, which is normally a command modifier.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Re: NeXT OS, TOO SLOW TO $#@#$, etc.
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 22:20:36 GMT

Edward V. Wright writes
> The NeXT market is primarily educational because only
> students can buy NeXTs at nonexhorbitant prices.  And there
> just aren't enough students around to make the NeXT (or any
> computer) a success by themselves. 
> 

I believe you're wrong if you think the NeXT market is primarily  
educational; the NeXT has been doing exceedingly well in selling to  
corporate applications in recent times; I believe these sales are  
outstripping their edu sales by a significant margin.  It may still  
be true that most NeXTs are in edu environments, since most of their  
early sales were there, but that's definitely not where NeXT is  
heading as of now.

--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
spagiola@FRI-nxt-Pagiola.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.advocacy:2618 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29144
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Distribution: world
Date: 15 Nov 92 03:12:55 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <BxoMKq.GM5@world.std.com> jbailey@world.std.com (james d bailey) writes:
>torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
>
>>jbailey@world.std.com (james d bailey) writes:
>> 
>>>philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>
>>>Give me a break.  I bet less than 1 out of 50 Quadras run A/UX.  Apple
>>>knows more about marketing than that.  They would never produce a
>>>machine meant for A/UX.
>
>>  Whoops.  Looks like you might eat your words early next year.
>
>
>Are you implying that PowerOpen is going to be A/UX?  If it is then I
>don't give it much chance for mainstream success.  The only way I want
>UNIX on my desktop machine is if it is completely hidden.  If it
>doesn't look, act, feel and smell like a Mac I don't want it.  If it
>ships with a CLI shell then I don't want it.  If I have to have 2
>partitions, one for the Mac and one for UNIX I don't want it.  I'll
>even sacrifice pre-emptive multi-tasking, memory protection and not
>being able to format floppies in the background to avoid it. :-).
>
>If you need UNIX for some reason, having a UNIX that runs native-mode
>Mac applications is great, but if you don't need UNIX, it is a poor
>substitute for the Mac's ease of use.

The Power-PC will probably run a merge of AUX/AIX with multifinder on top to
run MAC applications.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:17:38 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <00963A62.D0C0CA20@vms.csd.mu.edu>, 2rs9acevedom@vms.csd.mu.edu (Mario Acevedo) writes:
> 
> Well, not exactly.  The Quadra 700 was not able to run System 7.0 when it first
> came out.  The A3000 with a 25Mhz 040 with Amax II was able too, before the
> Quadra 700.

Mario,

This is not true. The Quadra 700 shipped with System 7.0.1. It requires
System 7.0.1 to run.

So, how can you say the first Quadra 700 computers were "not able to run
System 7.0"? 

When the Quadra 700 came out, System 7 was the ONLY system that ran on it.

(And if you are distinguishing the .1 suffix, you are blowing smoke.)

Please, do not continue to spread this falsehood.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: UC525655@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Mark Eaton)
Subject: Re: e: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Organization: University of Missouri
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 22:14:04 CST

Well folks, with all this Emplant garbage in c.s.m.advocacy, I decided to drop
in on c.s.amiga.emulations to see what they were seying. You guessed it, many
of them have the product, non of them can figure out how to get thw thing to
work. Apparently the company who produces the thing stated charging to credit
card accounts several months ago, and, under extreme pressure from the would be
customers, began shipping a product which was far,far from ready. Supposedly
it won't work on machines equipped fro AmigaDOS 2.x or higher, unless they
are using the 2.04 roms. It won't run on a500 or 600s. It won't recognize some
HDs, and others it completely trashes. The farthest *any* amiga expert can
get is to the setup screen, which immediately crashes. (so much for the Amigas
vaunted crash proof OS).
 
The users are flabergasted (sp?) (rightly so). They were charged for a product
long before it shipped. Then shipped a product obviously not ready for
consumption. The creator of said device has repeatedly thumbed his nose at
them. (When asked if it would support amigaDos 2.x and higher, hwe said
he prefered 1.3 and didn't need Commodores sw guidlines).
 
Apparently the unit shipped with a nearly-useless photocopied manual, which
hasn't seemed do helped the users get the thing running. Boy am I impressed.
I'd really consider this thing an alternative to a real mac!
 
and regarding Jim Drew's (the creator) advocacy of pirating mac ROMS:
 
*****begin insert****
From: jdrew@cryo.rain.com (Jim Drew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.emulations
Subject: Re: Emplant stuff...
Date: 12 Nov 92 04:41:54 GMT
Organization: Cryogenic Software - Portland, OR
 
 
In <1992Nov11.225745.16818@cs.wisc.edu>, rcmolden@parmesan.cs.wisc.edu (Robertc. Moldenhauer) writes:
> Where d I get the prgram to copy the roms directly from a Mac instead of having
> to stick them into Emplant first?
>
You can call our BBS and download a program called ROMINFO.  It is a real
MAC program, so downloading using a MAC is the easiest way to get it to
the MAC.
 
 
Jim Drew - Vice President, Utilities Unlimited, Inc.
           1641 McCulloch Blvd. Suite #25-124
           Lake Havasu City, AZ  86403
           (602) 680-9004     (602) 680-9006 FAX    (602) 453-9767 BBS
 
*****end insert*****
 
Real smart ain't he? :)
Well I've had a good laugh over this one. Ill leave you Amiga folk
to your emulators.
 
PS: If you guys want to impress us with how good you computers are,
try to avoid telling us how many other machines it can emulate. After
all, if Amigas are so great, they shouldn't *have* to emulate other
machines!  ;)
 
sorry about the poor typing. ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark Eaton                    | Opinions? We're not allowed to have
UC525655@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU | opinions at Mizzou... get back to me
                              | in 2 years when I graduate... ;)
From: ibhan@husc10.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: MIDI: Please convince me!
Date: 23 Nov 92 05:01:20 GMT

lad9452@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:

>I would appreciate someone out there with Mac MIDI experience and perhaps
>IBM pc MIDI background to compare the two systems.  Please explain to me
>IF and WHY the Mac is truly a superior way to go.

>Currently I own an IBM pc (386 DX compatible).  It's been great for my
>programming needs for work and school.  However, I am leery of investing
>in MIDI software/hardware because of incompatibility issues.

>I just bought the MACWORLD Music and Sound Bible (1400 pages) because I
>am interested in knowing what the Mac has to offer.  For one, at least
>there's this book!

>I want to buy a computer that I will dedicate for music use only.  I have
>looked at the Mac Classic II as a cheap entry point, but I'm also thinking
>about future expandability into hard drive recording.

>Anyway, just convince me.  I'd be interested in your setups (software,
>MIDI card, type of Mac).  If you feel it's more appropriate to e-mail me
>this information, please do so.  Thanks!

I don't know if you could say Macs are objectively better for MIDI, but
what I've heard is that the Mac software is in general better than the PC
equivalents.  I have EZ Vision with an Opcode Pro Plus interface.
-- 
             --      Ishir Bhan (ibhan@husc.harvard.edu)      --
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga Emplant outrunning an Alpha? NOT!
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:39:05 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:

>I hope I am not wasting bandwith with this, so I apologize in
>advance.

>I posted an item about how the Amiga will not be a workstation until
>it has some decent networking software.  I got some e-mail from an
>Amiga user saying that The Emplant is twice as fast as a DEC
>Alpha machine.  I am not posting anything
>more, because I am not sure if it is a copyright violation to post
>E-mail that is privately sent to you.

>Please, when advocating a machine, stick to the facts.  The only
>way an Amiga would outrun an Alpha machine is if the Alpha machine
>is turned off.

That guy obviously didn't know what he was talking about (if that was
what he really said).  Just want to let you know that *MOST* Amiga users
aren't as dumb as the one you've come across.

>-- 
>********** ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) **********
>Windows NT:                  * Disclaimer:  I speak for myself *
>                             ***********************************
>You WANT your hard drive trashed now.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin
e-mail: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:21:29 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1992Nov16.065041.27730@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, dtiberio@csws19.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
> In article <1992Nov14.013439.153540@watson.ibm.com> arsouth@watson.ibm.com (Andrew R. Southwick) writes:
>>Yes, graphics cards.  Does the Emplant + Amiga + 040 + (your choice) have
>>NuBUS slots?  If it does not, all the video options open to real Mac users
>>are closed.
> 	What VIDEO options? :) The Emplant board supports any Amiga graphics
> board once you get the proper driver, and of course uses the native graphics
> of the Amiga to display color ie VGA on an A4000.

What about a second display? Like I have on my Macintosh IIx right here?

I could have more if I had space on my desk for more monitors.

Of course, in a Mac, I could choose to have a variety of monitors, from
small black and white 12" displays to 22" 24-bit color displays. The Amiga
doesn't offer the same range of displays.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtiberio@csws19.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:50:26 GMT

In article <Bxw5vE.24x@world.std.com> jbailey@world.std.com (james d bailey) writes:

>>	It requires you to have Mac roms, in either hardware form or software

>>as no two copies run at the same time ie running the original Mac and the
>>Emplant at the same time is running from two copies.

>Don't you need Mac II ROMs for the Eggplant?  To buy a used Mac II to
>get the ROMs will raise the cost a bit won't it?

	Some people already own Mac II's. Some people will buy the ROMs
separately (believe it or not, dealers will sell them to you if they
really want to make a sale)


-- 
      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS, 14.4k baud
PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT
    "I don't have any experience in running up a 4 trillion dollar debt."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie)
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Originator: torrie@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 24 Nov 92 03:44:03 GMT

bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
>This gave it foolish things like 180K 5 1/2" disks. (The original design
>called for 8" disks with larger capacity) IBM came out with the product
>and they didn't even have a plan for it. There was no OS for it. (You
>had your choice of three different OSes, available from different
>vendors (can anyone name all three?))

  I know the first two, but I'm not certain on the third.

1. PC-DOS 1.0 (actually MS-DOS 1.0 from Microsoft)
2. CPM/86 from Digital Research

3. Was it the UCSD P-System (from who??) or Xenix from SCO/Microsoft.

  I was wondering about this the other day, particularly when did 
Xenix for the PC come out.  Now that I think about it, it probably 
didn't arrive until the XT (and its hard disk) in 1983.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
"...there is only one thing worse than having marketing people on a project,
 and that is having no marketing people on a project."  - Larry Tesler.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Newton tech (was The future of Apple)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:30:56 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <Cohena-161192121927@l30346.mdc.com> Cohena@mdc.com (Andy Cohen) writes:

>I will also not pay $1K for an item which can be dropped or stolen.  

So, what kid of car do you drive? :-)