HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Left on Red globe when green globe illuminated?
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:36:39 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <sgefqINNlig@agate.berkeley.edu> jtkohl@cs.Berkeley.EDU (John T Kohl) writes:
>Anybody with a CVC wanna answer this one:
>
>If there's a left-turn signal which has green and yellow arrows, but a
>red globe, is it legal to turn left when the red globe is on, but the
>other signals for that direction have illuminated green globes?

   If your question is, Is it legal to turn left when you are facing
   a round red signal, BUT there is a green left arrow, then the
   answer is yes.  (This is pretty common in some cities).   You are
   not supposed to enter the intersection if the left arrow turns
   yellow, but in real life it means step on it, quick.
From: alan@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Left on Red Arrow
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:31:09 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: National Semiconductor Corporation

In article <29E36ED1.5372@ics.uci.edu>, levine@segur.ics.uci.edu (David Levine) writes:
|> Jascha Lee writes:
|> 
|> >A left red arrow together with a solid green light, with no corresponding
|> >sign indicating left turn on green arrow only, indicates that you do not
|> >have the right of way and must yield to oncoming traffic.  It does not
|> >mean that left turns are illegal at that time.
|> 
|> Not according to the 1988 CVC 21453(c):  "A driver facing a steady red
|> arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement
|> indicated by the arrow [...]"  Would someone please check this in a
|> newer CVC?
|> 
|> 
It's still the same in the 1991 version of the CVC...


-- 
Alan Hepburn           "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
National Semiconductor       a little temporary safety deserve neither
Santa Clara, Ca              liberty nor safety."
alan@berlioz.nsc.com                              Benjamin Franklin
From: jaschal@sco.COM (Jascha Lee)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Left on Red Arrow
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 21:08:29 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.


>Lon Stowell writes:

->Rafael Furst writes:
->Does anyone know whether it is legal to make a left turn when there is
->a left turn arrow that is red but a normal green light (and no
->oncomming cars, of course) ?  I know that there are intersections that
->have signs saying "Left or Uturn on arrow only", but what if there is
->no sign to this effect?

>    If there is a RED left turn arrow, it is not legal to make a
>    left turn at that time.  
>
>    Why would they make a separate red arrow? To color balance the
>    green light?

A left red arrow together with a solid green light, with no corresponding
sign indicating left turn on green arrow only, indicates that you do not
have the right of way and must yield to oncoming traffic.  It does not
mean that left turns are illegal at that time.

As this situation occurs near my house, and motorcycles often don't trigger
induction loop signals, I had cause to look it up in the Vehicle Code.
(It isn't often useful to apply logic and common sense (or aesthetics)
when it comes to traffic rules).
Newsgroups: ca.driving,rec.autos
From: aclark@netcom.com (Al Clark)
Subject: Re: Insurance recommendations and "Admitted" insurance companies
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 00:19:13 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Apr6.163932.24486@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> gat@forsight.jpl.nasa.gov (Erann Gat) writes:
>In article <1992Apr5.074211.24417@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> earle@poseur.JPL.NASA.GOV (Greg Earle - Sun JPL on-site Software Support) writes:
>>We've just gotten a new Ford Explorer and have been investigating new
>>insurance options for it.  The rates seem to vary wildly and so I have two
>>questions:
>>
>>(1) If (like me) you're an early thirtysomething with a 0/1 ticket history, any
>>    positive recommendations on insurance companies to covet/avoid would be
>>    much appreciated.  Seems like it's hard to find out all the players out
>>    there, much less know what their reputation is.
>
>I have done two rate searches at two different times and both times
>State Farm came up substantially cheaper than any other company I checked.
>I did not call Twentieth Century, which is rumored to be the cheapest of
>all, but hard to get in.  I have never had a major claim, but they were
>very good to me on a few minor ones.  (I have also been insured with
>GEICO.  They are more expensive, but paid a major claim with no hassle.
>This was ten years ago, though, so things may have changed.)
>
>Erann Gat
>gat@robotics.jpl.nasa.gov

I have been with Allstate since 1955 (except during when I was in Germany
for a couple of years in the 60's).  I have had several accidents, including
two totals (one my fault, one not - the other driver was covered by Allstate)
and they have paid fair value in reasonable time every time.  (Last accident
in July 1990.) Their rates may not be the lowest, but they ARE there,
and they're gonna be there next year.  And that's what I have insurance
for.  Incidentally, the rates aren't all that bad either, I don't
think; I just haven't made any comparisons in 10 years or so. 
-- 
Al - aclark@netcom.com - My opinions are my own.
      *** Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty! ***
Xref: sparky ca.driving:848 news.answers:1062
From: bradam@fourbits.Eng.Sun.COM (Brad Martinson)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: US 50 Eastward?
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:18:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: fourbits

Okay, We're driving to "the East" from northern CA, and need to decide
what route to take.  Anyone care to share thoughts on US50 east of Calif-
ornia?  Justa as boring as I80, better, worse ...?

TIA =

-- 


+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|   Brad Martinson           SunSoft, Inc         bmartinson@sun.com  |
| #include <std/disclaimers.h>					      |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
+   "... I need friends who don't pay their bills on home computers,  +
+     and buy their coffee beans already ground..."   (Randy Travis)  +
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
From: eoates@us.oracle.com
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Left on Red globe when green globe illuminated?
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:08:11 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Oracle Corporation, USA

In article <sgefqINNlig@agate.berkeley.edu>, jtkohl@cs.Berkeley.EDU (John T Kohl) writes:
> Anybody with a CVC wanna answer this one:
> 
> If there's a left-turn signal which has green and yellow arrows, but a
> red globe, is it legal to turn left when the red globe is on, but the
> other signals for that direction have illuminated green globes?
> --
> John Kohl <jtkohl@cs.berkeley.edu>
> UC Berkeley CS grad student
> Member of the League for Programming Freedom--details: league@prep.ai.mit.edu
> (The above opinions are MINE.  Don't put my words in somebody else's mouth!)

This has been a long thread for something so simple: if there is a signal
controlling the left turn lane, then it supercedes the through traffic signals. 
If the left signal is read (whether arrow or ball), you may not turn left. 
That redness means that oncomming through traffic has a green light.  I can't
cite the CVC, but it should not be necessary, since that's the way it is.

Ed Oates (my opinions, not Oracle's)
From: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Kill a Biker, Go to Jail.  NOT!!!
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:32:05 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <#jpj1mb.aclark@netcom.com> aclark@netcom.com (Al Clark) writes:
>
>And Route 101 south of San Francisco was known as the "Bloody Bayshore"
>back in the early fifties before the freeway was built.

    I always heard of Highway 17 from SJ to SC referred to as blood
    alley during the late 70's and mid-80's.   

    I had heard of 101 as Litigation Lane during the same time...
From: jtkohl@cs.Berkeley.EDU (John T Kohl)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Left on Red globe when green globe illuminated?
Date: 15 Apr 1992 05:20:58 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: ca
	<1992Apr14.215838.22047@sj.ate.slb.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: stinson.cs.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com's message of Tue, 14 Apr 92 21:58:38 GMT

Anybody with a CVC wanna answer this one:

If there's a left-turn signal which has green and yellow arrows, but a
red globe, is it legal to turn left when the red globe is on, but the
other signals for that direction have illuminated green globes?
--
John Kohl <jtkohl@cs.berkeley.edu>
UC Berkeley CS grad student
Member of the League for Programming Freedom--details: league@prep.ai.mit.edu
(The above opinions are MINE.  Don't put my words in somebody else's mouth!)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: karish@mindcraft.com (Chuck Karish)
Subject: Re: US 50 Eastward?
Organization: Mindcraft, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 01:29:46 GMT

In article <ku1cfsINNoml@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> bradam@fourbits.Eng.Sun.COM
(Brad Martinson) writes:
>Okay, We're driving to "the East" from northern CA, and need to decide
>what route to take.  Anyone care to share thoughts on US50 east of Calif-
>ornia?  Justa as boring as I80, better, worse ...?

US50 across Nevada has you driving across wide, flat desert
valleys, as 80 does, except that it also takes you through
some pretty mountain passes.  All of them easy to drive; no
hairpin turns or narrow roadways or really steep sections.

My choice would be Cal.120 -> US6 -> US50 -> I70.

The scenery along I70 in southern Utah is very pretty.

Gas stations are fairly far apart on US6 and US50.  Gas up
when you have the chance, and carry water for your car and
drinks for yourselves.

	Chuck Karish		karish@mindcraft.com
	Mindcraft, Inc.		(415) 323-9000
From: zzz@erg.sri.com (Michael J. Konopik)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: equity in justice (was "go to jail -- NOT!")
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:47:25 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA

In response to the article describing an engineer who had his life turned
upside down for being caught DUI...

In article <1992Apr6.153657.1857@island.COM> don@island.COM (Don Hermes) writes:
>Great !!!
>Maybe if there are more examples like this people will realize that it's
>not ok to drive after drinking. 

I think the point was how DUI offenders tend to get harsher sentences than
do those found guilty of vehicular homicide.

So the basic message that the court sends to the people is that it is better
to kill somebody with your car than to risk killing somebody with your car.

Great logic, huh?
				   -Mike
From: jtkohl@cs.Berkeley.EDU (John T Kohl)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Left on Red globe when green globe illuminated?
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:32:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.sihuoINNc2
Distribution: ca
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: stinson.cs.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com's message of 15 Apr 92 15:36:39 GMT

In article <181085@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:

> In article <sgefqINNlig@agate.berkeley.edu> jtkohl@cs.Berkeley.EDU (John T Kohl) writes:
> >Anybody with a CVC wanna answer this one:
> >    If your question is [...]

Let me rephrase to make it clear:

The pole with the left turn signal has a green arrow, yellow arrow, and
red globe (only one of which is illuminated at a time).

The other poles have normal green/yellow/red globes, ostensibly for
traffic going straight or turning right.

If the left-turn pole has the red globe on, and the other poles have the
green globes on, may I turn right?
--
John Kohl <jtkohl@cs.berkeley.edu>
UC Berkeley CS grad student
Member of the League for Programming Freedom--details: league@prep.ai.mit.edu
(The above opinions are MINE.  Don't put my words in somebody else's mouth!)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: Radar Ok?
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 01:31:42 GMT

-
     Take a look at Nolo Press' self-help book "Fight Your Ticket" (or
some such title).  They have a store in Berkeley on Parker, near Dwight
and Ninth.  You can also call them up via their 800 number, call 1-800-
555-1212 to get that number.

							George

Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger)
Subject: Re: Left on Red Arrow
Organization: Schlumberger Technologies, ATE division, San Jose, Ca.
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 21:58:38 GMT

stssram@st.unocal.com (Bob Myers) writes:
: >>>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 92 19:49:16 GMT, jaschal@sco.COM (Jascha Lee) said:
: 
: Jascha> 1991 CVC 21453(c): "A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall
: Jascha> not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow
: Jascha> and,
: 
: Jascha> unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by
: Jascha> another signal,
: 
: Jascha> shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none..."
: 
: Jascha> [I added the blank lines to delineate the applicable clause]
: 
: Jascha> 1991 CVC 21451(a): "A driver facing a circular green signal shall
: Jascha> proceed straight through or turn right or left or make a U-turn unless
: Jascha> a sign prohibits a U-turn.  Any driver, including one turning, shall
: Jascha> yield the right-of-way to other traffic and to pedestrians lawfully
: Jascha> within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk."
: 
: Jascha> -----
: Jascha> In other words: if you have a red arrow and a green light, and no
: Jascha> sign specifying left turn on green arrow only, you are legally permitted
: Jascha> to obey the green light.
: 
: If by "obey the green light" you mean turn left against a left red arrow,
: I think you're nuts if you really think you can get away with this.
: 
: Yes, you are legally permitted to obey the green light. You must also
: obey the red arrow.  CVC 21453(c) quoted above says that you shall stop
: at a clearly marked limit line *unless* entering the intersection to make
: a movement permitted by another signal.  How are you going to get around
: the first clause, though?  It specifically says you can't enter the intersection
: to make the movement.  The "unless" is clearly attached to the second 
: clause, not the first.  
: 
: You don't have to stop at a clearly marked limit line if there's a red
: arrow and you're obeying another signal, but you can't enter the intersection
: to turn against the arrow.  Good luck.
: 
: On the off chance that this really is a loophole, I'm still pretty sure
: you'd have to go to court to prove it.  I think you're still going to get
: a ticket.
: 

I have seen a very few instances where there is a green left arrow, but no
red arrow. In this case, it is legal to turn if there is a round green, and it
is safe to do so.

I believe that a red arrow supersedes all else, and it is illegal to turn
against a red arrow.

Russ Poffenberger               DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com
Schlumberger Technologies       UUCP:   {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen
1601 Technology Drive		CIS:	72401,276
San Jose, Ca. 95110             Voice: (408)437-5254  FAX: (408)437-5246
Xref: sparky ca.driving:840 rec.autos.driving:2367 misc.legal:9250
From: svaldez@sdcc13.ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: ca.driving,rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
Subject: Chances in court w/speeding ticket?
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:37:57 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: ca


  Ok, I got my very first speeding violation.  Just wondering
before I went ahead paid bail and forfeit it - what chances do
I have in court?  

I would show up in court xcept I live in San Diego, and I got
the ticket in the Bay Area ... I heard that if you show up in
court and the ticket-issuing-officer doesn't show up the 
charges are dismissed???  Thing is since I live far away I
have the option of having a 'trial by mail' --- any good? 

please, please, please send e-mail replies NOT to the
account I posted this from but to: ln63scs@sdcc4.ucsd.edu

I'll post summaries if possible.  

thanks... 


-- 
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=-*=-=*=-
University of California, San Diego - ICC
internet:  gyro@ucsd.edu     619-534-0480
From: levine@segur.ics.uci.edu (David Levine)
Subject: Re: Left on Red Arrow
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:35:39 GMT
Distribution: ca

Rafael Furst writes:

>whether it is legal to make a left turn when there is
>a left turn arrow that is red but a normal green light

No, it is not legal to make the left turn against a red left arrow
[CVC 21543(c)].

I had thought that a red arrow was the same as a circular red
(with respect to the movement that you're trying to make), but
that's not so.  A right-turn-on-red (or left-turn-on-red from a
one-way street to a one-way street) may only be made against a
circular red [CVC 21453(b)], and may not be made against a red
arrow.  Does that sound right?

to accept the universal responsibility of doing | David L. Levine
good to all sentient beings, and if that is not | Internet: levine@ics.uci.edu
possible, to do no harm                         | UUCP: ...!uunet!ucivax!levine
  -- paraphrased from the Fourteenth Dalai Lama | BITNET: levine@uci
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: traffic court...
From: cbcscaar@mx.secs.csun.edu (Adam A. Ravid)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:50:09 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: California State University, Northridge


I went to watch traffic court yesterday, which was somewhat
entertaining and somewhat sad.  

A few things that I thought of bringing up...

  To me it looked like the Judge was both the Judge and the
  prosecutor...  Is this common to all traffic courts?  Is
  it legal?  --  Looks like the Judge is on the police officers'
  side always, even 'leading the witness' to saying things that
  are harmful for the defense.  Who exactly is the prosecutor
  in that kind of a court?   It's funny when the defense almost
  always do not know their rights, and when some are violated
  (which could bring motion to dismiss the trial, they are not
  brought up....)  So the Judge and Police officers thrive on
  the fact that the defense is unprepared and not knowledgable
  of their rights.  A lot of cases I saw that may have been able
  to have been beaten.

(There's more ... but I got'ta run to class... :-)).
-- 

-----------------------------------------------------
cbcscaar@ms.secs.csun.edu
pain!root (public access info network (818/776-1447))
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: kayc@leland.Stanford.EDU 
Subject: How to get a license for a scooter
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 00:47:27 GMT

I want to ride a scooter. Can somebody tell me how to go about
learning how to ride one, how to get a license, and about insurance.

Any information will be appreciated.

-K C


Xref: sparky ca.driving:761 rec.autos:10771 misc.consumers:10110
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: ca.driving,rec.autos,misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Insurance recommendations and "Admitted" insurance companies
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:52:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: unocal.1992Apr6.145246.5971
Distribution: ca
Organization: Unocal Corporation, Anaheim, California
Originator: stgprao@xing

In article <COLE.92Apr5123149@iris.usc.edu> cole@iris.usc.edu (Bill &) writes:
>Since your from the LA area, I'd like to give you (and others) and
>warning about AA Insurance Service a.k.a. Holland Insurance (broker
>Mona Holland). They took our money 6 months ago, never wrote a policy
>and we have been pursuing them ever since.

Insurance scams are endemic in S. CA.  There are zillions fly-by-night
no-name companies and endless stories of folding or not paying off claims.
If the price is too good to be true and it is a non-name company, then
it is too good to be true.
From: levine@segur.ics.uci.edu (David Levine)
Subject: Re: Left on Red Arrow
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:08:17 GMT
Distribution: ca

Jascha Lee writes:

>A left red arrow together with a solid green light, with no corresponding
>sign indicating left turn on green arrow only, indicates that you do not
>have the right of way and must yield to oncoming traffic.  It does not
>mean that left turns are illegal at that time.

Not according to the 1988 CVC 21453(c):  "A driver facing a steady red
arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement
indicated by the arrow [...]"  Would someone please check this in a
newer CVC?

> I had cause to look it up in the Vehicle Code.

Please cite the CVC section number.

to accept the universal responsibility of doing | David L. Levine
good to all sentient beings, and if that is not | Internet: levine@ics.uci.edu
possible, to do no harm                         | UUCP: ...!uunet!ucivax!levine
  -- paraphrased from the Fourteenth Dalai Lama | BITNET: levine@uci
From: joanne@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Joanne Petersen)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:22:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Left on Red Arrow
Organization: Hewlett-Packard PAITC Data Center
Newsgroups: ca.driving

I sympathize with Walt and others who are color-blind and have difficulty
with the red arrow.  However, I prefer seeing traffic lights with red/yellow/
green arrows on the column instead of the usual round red/yellow/green lights
for left-turn-only.  What I mean to say is that there are intersections where
a left-turn-only signal column of r/y/g lights is red and the through traffic
light is green; I think this is more confusing than having a signal with r/y/g
arrows for the left-turn signal.

In any event, a red is a red and should be obeyed (unless it is not a red
arrow and both streets are one-way, the cross street going to the left, in 
which case you may make a left turn if there is no oncoming traffic :-).
From: cyclone@netcom.com (Bill Sheppard)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Question about registration
Date: 10 Apr 92 02:21:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.4lsj0v#.cyclone
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

My car registration is due in June.  I'm considering selling my car.  If I
sell it in May, am I saving the registration fees (call it $250) versus if I
sell in July, or do I get a rebate of most of what I paid if I sell my car
shortly after paying registration?  If not, does the value of the car
theoretically rise by $250 immediately after I pay the registration since it's
not due for another year, or in practise do new car buyers ignore this?

Bill
-- 
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