HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sheilah@wam.umd.edu (Danny-Boy)
Subject: request, Stansilaw Lem poem tagged on for fun
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:06:39 GMT




skipp ahead to **** for Stansilaw Lem poem

I am mostly posting to very requery that if anyone feels
they have anything interesting to say, when creating flames
to put a warning on it, something like, sure this is a flame,
but I am not merely insulting people, I am defending the honor of all
that is True and Beautiful and besides, I have something interesting to
say. Maybe even you want to put, "MY GOD! I AM. things of utter truth and
interest" in the keywords, or summary line. Plus, if you
want to be helpful, give an outline at the beginning, something like,

   I. insults. whereupon I lay heavy crustacians at my enemy's back 
      back porch, hoping that one squeezes his cat's tail and makes it
      yowl beyond belief.

  II. interesting observations on criticism and intepretation. Watch as I
      interpret a poem with bare toes. (toenails clipped)

 III. insults. but witty, tidbits relevant to grand unified theory, so 
      sheila will be particulary interested in this.

  IV. btw, I just thought I would through in a nice discussion of 
      things we have to assume before we exist.

I don't know. things like this.

****
This poem is about Love and tensor algebra

	Come, let us hasten to a higher plane,
	Where dyads tread the fairy fields of Venn,
	Their indices bedecked from one to n,
	Commingled in an endless Markov chain!

	Come, every frustam longs to be a cone,
	and every vector dreams of matrices.
	Hark to the gentle gradient of the breeze:
	It whispers of a more ergodic zone.

	In Rienmann, Hilbert or in Banach space
	Let superscripts and subscripts go their ways.
	Our asymptotes no longer out of phase,
	We shall encounter, counting, face to face         * how lovely!

	I'll grant thee random access to my heart,
	Thou'lt tell me all the constants of thy love;
	And so we two shall all love's lemma's prove,
	And in our bound partition never part.

	For what did Cauchy know, or Christoffel,
	Or Fourier, or any Boole or Euler,
	Wielding their compasses, their pens and rulers
	Of thy supernal sinusoidal spell?

	Cancel me not -- for what then shall remain?
	Abscissas, some mantissas, modules, modes,
	A root or two, a torus and a node:
	The inverse of my verse, a null domain.

	Ellipse of bliss, converge, O lips divine!
	The product of our scalars is defined!
	Cyberiad draws nigh, and the skew mind
	Cuts capers like a happy haversine.

	I see the eigenvalue in thine eye,
	I hear the tender tensor in thy sigh.
	Bernoulli would have been content to die
	Had he but known such a^2 cos (2phi) !	
-- 
I am always wrong. Don't believe me ever.
stark raving sane  sheilah@wam.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: dmcheste@quads.uchicago.edu (dennis michael chester)
Subject: The Second Revolution In Heaven
Summary: c and c requested 
Reply-To: dmcheste@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:26:36 GMT

two new posts.  productivity is easy when you procrastinate.


	_The Second Revolution In Heaven_

	Angels work for change
	and for pleasure
	and don't really care
	if you tip them or not.
	Angels stay out late
	in pool bars
	and dance clubs,
	They dance better
	than anybody.
	Angels wometimes wear
	tuxedos, but
	usually its
	jeans and t-shirts.
	Angels have great record
	collections and will let
	you borrow almost anything
	except for
	The Billy Holiday Songbook.
	Angels talk to everybody but
	they never tell you
	why they got kicked
	down here.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: PROWSE@Meena.CC.URegina.CA (Natalie)
Subject: marek and natalie's comingled old lovers / Natalie+Marek
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:29:51 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Sask., Canada


		marek and natalie's comingled old lovers
		-------------------------------------------------------------


		I dreamed of you last night.
		You no longer hated me.
		We talked, we laughed.
		I felt warm in this dream.

		Then I awoke to harshness.
		The morning light hurt my heart.
		Sadness dressed as warm dew
		softened my pillow.


			Marek Lugowski / Natalie Prowse
			16 November 1992
			Chicago, Illinois / Penticton BC

(prowse@meena.cc.uregina.ca)

 "I won't cherish grudges. I'll forgive those who change their minds and
  actions, just as I reserve the right to change my own mind and actions."
        -Bruce Sterling
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Errand of Mercy
From: nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev)
Date: 22 Nov 92 19:08:58
Organization: The Kremlin Wall of Harvard
In-reply-to: jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us's message of 21 Nov 92 00:08:23 GMT

jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us writes:

> Errand of Mercy --

> Will someone who lives in the area please take RAP's new boy Philip
> a drool cup and a bottle of valium?

> So far, he has managed to exhibit a sociopathic personality, a
> profound immaturity and the intellectual capacity of an obnoxious
> Chihuahua ... It would appear Harvard is stealing his daddy's money,
> or Philip is stealing their's. Either way, I'll wager he's not long
> for the Ivy League, save as a butt for a few of the jokesters at
> Yale.

> Hark! I can hear one of them now:

> "At Harvard, the boy nikolay had a great deal of drivel to say.  A
> twit and a fool, he wrote his first rule, 'Stick my foot in my mouth
> everyday!'"


>                   JJWebb


> "If you're peering into a cesspool, you must be looking for a ration
> of shit."

>                           --Beau Blue-- 

So you are trying harder, eh? Good. But you still haven't looked up 
'society', Webbster, and your quarnstrombobulated limericks scan poorly. 
As to Yalie jokesters, they all committed suicide yesterday after 
being stomped in the Game (14 : 0). But I must reward your sweat
by giving you a lesson in versification. Check out this:

	From the saga of clueless ole Webb's
	Joyless fights for the rights of the plebs:
	   As his favourite stunt
	   He would stuff his raw cunt
	With cobwebs and cabobs and cubebs.

Philip Nikolayev
nikolay@husc.harvard.edu
From: alk4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Alex L. Karan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Into Myth
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:27:57 GMT
Reply-To: alk4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations


Into Myth
---------



caterpillar
turned into word;

Karan said
butterfly;

lips powdered
yellow 




Alex L. Karan

this one I carried around in my pockets for a day

Alex
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: alk4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Alex L. Karan)
Subject: Re: Archeology
Reply-To: alk4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 20:48:40 GMT

Just want to complicate the central artifact a bit with 
something I wrote a while ago:



Under Glass
-----------




on starry grass
our silent questions
holding sweaty hands
dance in Sabath circles
la la la la

under green glass
the four leaf clover
pressed into color
lai-la ya-raid l'at

let us go out into that summer,
I will not whisper to you
a quiet song;
part the grass and
Lormir a-leh fray lech zine




Alex L. Karan


happy reading...
From: gt7244c@prism.gatech.EDU (John G'alt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: posting for a friend
Keywords: samples from a babe
Date: 23 Nov 92 08:06:56 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech


   These are posted with almost-permission.  If anyone at Wake Forest
knows Laura, bonk her on the head for me.  But watch it, she's got a mean
backfist.

     
   Complete is obsolete
   I no longer claim that title
   See them smile
   They taint our views
   Hypocrisy's running wild

                        - Chloe       

   Smile

   I am my smile
   Muscles stretched taut over teeth:
   Hard, sharp, stained.
   Lips rouged into brightness
   Eyes squeezed shut,
   Hidden by the strain of my cheeks
   I am my smile
   Baring my teeth at the world.

                         - Chloe

   The Ultimate

   At night 
   I am the Ultimate, only
   Prettier than pettier observances will allow
   Performing on grand stages -
   My mirror, most flattering
   -
   Animated fantasies straining
   Muscles, tendons, hearts.
   Tendrils creeping into day;
   Rip them off!
   -
   Hours from the light, tight
   Hugs from friends
   Much too different or too alike
   From what I am
   In many mirrors I can't control,
   Have more control on me
   -
   At night
   I am the Ultimate, only
   Alone
                         - Chloe


  Laura Keeney is a freshman at Wake Forest and quite a sight.
  Thanks for your patience.
  John G'alt
-- 
John Greenawalt, gt7244c@prism.gatech.edu whooptydoo yes I'm a number
I am the difference between  |  "All the poetry in the trunk you kept your
      A poet at heart        |   life in/ I knew that it would come to 
  And a poet at genitals.    |   light one day."             -CB
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: lichter@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Michael I. Lichter)
Subject: another bad day
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 22:46:18 GMT

		another bad day
		----------------------------------

		who is this guy?
		is he your ... oh.

			Michael Lichter
			November 20, 1992
From: hornpete@uctvax.uct.ac.za (Peter Horn)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: A modest proposal
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:48:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: uctvax.1992Nov21.184822.203299
Organization: University of Cape Town

A MODEST PROPOSAL FOR THE UNIVERSAL BENEFIT OF MANKIND
"and butchers we may be assured will not be wanting..."

Jonathan Swift

These old men are gold-toothed animals
with a gigantic noise
in their bowels before they die
with the great words of great men 
on their lips.

We insist that they disappear.
They eat too much. They use too much air.
They take up too much space.
This profound conservative rabble
occupies chairs in universities and seats
in parliament, straddle-legged they spread
themselves out.

They enunciate with violet lips and turbid eyes
seven times seven commandments.
They write books which make us puke.
Why do these men still stand in the market,
rubbish bins, waiting to be emptied of words,
shop-soiled, mass-produced litter?

Prize-winning block-heads with Ph.D.s.
They don't understand the simplest things,
like love or laziness. It is time
that they grow speechless
for want of an arse and a mouth
after all the stench they have created.

Peter Horn
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: cdl0915@ultb.isc.rit.edu (Chris Losinger)
Subject: Looking for a poem...
Originator: cdl0915@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:59:48 GMT


	I am looking for the name/author of a poem. I was sitting in my
	room , writing a letter when this line sprang to mind :

	"When all alone I beweep my outcast state"


	I know I've read it somewhere...anyone?

	-fieldfresh- 
-- 
        --------------------------------------------------------------
        	c  h  r  i  s   l  o  s  i  n  g  e  r   r  i  t 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Subject: Re: Turtles in the Ganges (Stereotypical Western tastelessness)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:26:16 GMT

In article <NIKOLAY.92Nov22210043@husc10.harvard.edu> nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev) writes:
>
>I fully agree with what you say about the poem as such; but please
>remember that *any* stereotypes are bad, and national pride only
>exists to be insulted, because it serves no other purpose.
>

I responded to the poem in question not because my "national pride"
was insulted. I responded because the poem was *false* , i.e. this
poem did not convey a lived truth but a fragmented sensationalism.


Now you might say that 90% of the poems posted on this newsgroup 
plead guilty to the same charge, and ask why I raised my voice 
against *this* particular poem. This is because, in most cases,
people who post here post about their *private* experiences, of
which I ,because they are private, ipso facto cannot lay claim
to judge. Here however the reference was to a public event, one
which I felt I was able with some merit to judge as it fell under
the ambit of experiential relaity having been lived by me.


If the poster had written a similar poem about some practice in
Guatemala or New Guinea, I would probably have been similarly 
offended ; but it is true that I would probably have desisted
from posting a response as I would not have felt myself in a
good position to pass judgement .

>Alternatively, it may be some efficient bloke in Tata's employ.
>Or are you a preacher hired by the Arya Samaj?
>Think about stereotypes.
>

Part of the reason why I resorted to stereotyping was to expose,
by example, how misleading stereotyping is.

Having worked in a Tata concern for a year, I can assure you that 
to my knowledge they have not yet ventured into this line of 
business yet (to my knowledge). And no, I am not an Arya Samajist. 

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sayan Bhattacharyya          |   Colourless green ideas sleep furiously.
Artificial Intelligence Lab  |
The University of Michigan   |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: lichter@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Michael I. Lichter)
Subject: xmas music makes me sick
Organization: UCLA Hospital, Holiday Ward
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 23:21:47 GMT

		xmas music makes me sick
		---------------------------------------------

		the bridled turkey stirs
		bronzed gleaming drumsticks
		nervously kicking up dust
		as it awaits the opening date

		it falls and magnificent waves
		of swirling sentimentality
		drown without disturbing frantic
		hordes of mall shoppers

		perry cuomo finds his place
		next to red-nosed burl and
		the season's pick of moving
		covers: megadeath does 'silent night'

		lonely in this lunatic action
		video-eyed by breeding and choice
		which prophets?  who profits?
		just turn off that music!

			Michael Lichter
			November 22, 1992
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: tringg@rs6420.ecs.rpi.edu (George Joseph Tringali)
Subject: you can see the iron pellet
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:35:49 GMT


             you can see the iron pellet
            -----------------------------

             It all got bottled up
             So I drink
             Then I took up smoking
                and now poetry
             I don't care if it's good    *fingers turned backward*
             or not
             As long as it's expression
             That's hard to come by these days  *metal rod*
             So I hang with the "wrong" crowd
             The Expression group
             I want to bang out the words on this paper
             I write illegibly - fine - but fuck I want
             to rip through it and the table with these words
             I want you to feel it
             I want you to feel as if the shotgun is aimed at YOU


--- Jake
   11/23/92
From: jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Mr. Nikolayev
Keywords: Sociopathic
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 02:31:36 PST
Reply-To: jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us



After asking Philip Nikolayev to demonstrate that he could do more than
foam at the mouth, nikolay@husc.harvard.edu writes:

> Sir or Madam,

> I might indeed post and discuss a favourite poem, if asked, in a
> nicer tone of voice, 

So tone is important to you ... it's important to me as well ... I'll
wager it's important to most everyone that reads this group. You MIGHT
respond favorably to a nicer tone ... that seems right. I suppose someone 
with sociopathic tendencies might not be able to extrapolate from this
a useful rule for functioning within a traditional society. What do you 
suppose? 

> by someone who signed his or her full name under the message. 

JJ (pronounced JayJay) ain't enough syllables for you? Same number as in 
Philip. I am hardly anonymous ... and it ain't a pen name. Just the name 
dad gave me, probably because he didn't like the name Philip as much as he 
liked the name JJ. In this society I am jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us,
and that 'full name' is in the header, on the 'From:' line, in every message
I send.   

> Besides, given the context of your request, 

What context do you think you see? Is your angle of preception any larger
than the last few paragraphs? Is your horizon line against your nose or
out at basho's pond? 

> I would expect you to present some credentials, 

Credentials? To be curious? Asked for by someone who claims the goals of
"full humanity" and "the good life" as his motivating force? Hmm ... I
assume my social security card number won't do. Perhaps if you told me 
which identity card you're looking for I might be able to find it in the 
darker recesses of my wallet. 

> because I see no point in proving that I am not this week's rabid dog 
> to someone who may well be, for all I know, the mangy rat of yesteryear.

So who a person is and what they have done in the past, is an important 
factor in determining your discourse with that individual. That seems right.
Although, not completely right. I suppose someone with sociopathic 
tendencies might not be able to extrapolate from this a useful rule for 
functioning within a traditional society. What do you suppose?


                JJWebb

--
From: et1@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: re:question/request, a reply
Date: 19 Nov 92 12:31:31 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

I wonder if you've ever seen the film "Dead Poet's Society"?? Its a definite
must for anyone looking at "what poetry is", as much as that can actually be
described. Yes folks, a real LIVE arty-farty, Romantic, poetry-inspired,
ex-social science student beaming in from Hamilton. Anyway, to quote from the
film mentioned above, poetry is something that has to be tasted, something that
drips from your tounge like honey, something thats EXPERIENCED. A bit like this
new fad of "method acting", where actors portray the feelings that they
themselves have at any given time. Poetry is not something thats necessarily
MEASURED, although I s'pose looking at the poet's life, rhyme\metre/choice of
words\other "structural" things adds to our appreciation-but we have had to
EXPERIENCE poetry before these "structural" things start making sense. I reckon 
poetry is one great way communicating experiences, moods, perceptions of the
world, any number of things. I'm not sure how you go about defining what poetry
" is ", do you start by somehow distinguishing it from other genres? (a
somewhat negative way?), or go for the "its a sonnet, with two quatrains and a
rhyming couplet set in iambic pentametre" (somewhat clinical?), could we write
in exams purely about how particular poets/poetry has effected us/changed us in
some way/ influenced the way we view our immediate world/our ordinary lives? a
bit of all the above??? WHAT THINKS THE WORLD OF POETRY APPRECIATORS????            


caper daum - seize the day
From: jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Anglocentricism in rec.arts.poems Re: Urdu Knowledge. Re: Urdu Ignorance (part II)
Summary: anglocentric
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 14:12:45 PST
Reply-To: jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us




> On a related note, I am disappointed to find that rec.arts.poems
> is so Anglocentric and so Eurocentric. Poetry of non-Western
> cultures, particularly those of the Third world, is rarely
> discussed here. (I may be wrong, because I have time to read this
> group rarely, but this has been my impression so far).

I think the vote on r.a.p.u. shows why RAP looks Eurocentric. The
votes cast to keep Urdu poetry in RAP seem to be cast by people with
European sounding names. The votes cast to partition the group seem
to be cast by people with non-European sounding names. 300 or so people
not interested in participating in RAP ... because certain people thought
that the current participants would be unable to understand and unable to
learn. I was disappointed by the vote results ... RAP may be Anglocentric, 
but it ain't because the Anglos ain't trying ... Ali and Philip Nikolayev
have similar views of the people of RAP, both are elitist, and both are
wrong wrong wrong.

                    JJWebb
                                                                   -- 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: wstrutin@lion.CSEE.Lehigh.Edu (wstrutin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: ... ameoba me
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:48:44 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

ameoba me
------ --

I died of me that day
when the razor and the rock
were the only love enough
to touch me - madly, deeply
beneath someone's skin
binding something
on the outside: ameoba, plasma
without spine or color
just enough shape to name
but really nothing at all.

The cuts - liberating blood
felt as sane as childhood
and as empty as my draining vains;
Not fearing or feeling
taunts to nerveless death
escaping through membrane
opaque as walls bethween myself
thin as skin my soul-less hand held.

					\/\/endy
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: mcoffin@iastate.edu (Marie Coffin)
Subject: More on Urdu and the Nature of Knowing
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 03:50:17 GMT

Steph -- thank you for your analogy about clubs on campus.  It
illustrates the main danger of argument by analogy.  Since you did not
read most of the original disucssion on creating rec.arts.poems.urdu,
let me recap a bit. 

The original proposal was to have a newsgroup where urdu poetry and
language could be discussed.  Some of us on rap (as well as many
outside rap) suggested that this might better be formed under
soc.culture.urdu.  The reply was that Urdu is *not* a culture, but
rather a language in which much beautiful poetry has been written.
Fine, we said, why not post some on rap, which is, after all, supposed
to be a forum for *all* kinds of poetry.  The reply was that we
wouldn't understand it, because of the cultural differences.  I won't
comment on the inherent contradictions here, but I will note that a
number of what were counted as "yes" votes on r.a.p.u were in fact
votes in favor of "an Urdu newsgroup", without any specification of
where it would reside in the Usenet hierarchy.

Your analogy to clubs on campus is, I feel, a bad one.  The proponents
of r.a.p.u are not so much trying to form their own club on campus as
they are trying to start their own university.  In the past,
minorities have done this when they were not allowed on "the main
campus", so to speak.  I could understand the Urdu people wanting
their own poetry group if they had been made unwelcome on rap, but in
fact, that has not happened.  Until r.a.p.u was proposed, I don't
recall having heard any mention of Urdu on rap.  It is unfortunate
that those interested in Urdu poetry would want a separate group
without ever having tried to share with us on rap.  Furthermore, it
sets a bad precedent.  Many of us enjoy the wide diversity of poetry
on rap and hate to see it splintered.

I found your remarks about knowledge rather confusing.  Knowledge
(whether a noun or a "verb") has to come from someplace.  I presume
that knowledge of Urdu poetry is not going to descend on me out of the
sky.  I could acquire such knowledge (1) by reading books on the
subject or (2) by talking to someone who knows about it.  Therefore, I
asked someone who knows about Urdu poetry to share his insights with
the rest of us.  I find it shocking that you would equate such a
request with intellectual laziness.  You also seem to be contradicting
yourself with the food analogy where (if I am reading you right) you
suggest that we go "to the source" to obtain knowledge.  I thought
that was what I was doing.

In closing, I would like to note that, since I requested a sharing of
knowledge, that has in fact taken place.  Sayan Bhattacharyya has been
posting information about Indian poets that was news (at least to me).
Thanks, Sayan! 


Marie Coffin




Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems