HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adam@owlnet.rice.edu (Adam Justin Thornton)
Subject: Re: Floor numbering
Organization: Milo's Meadow
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:11:03 GMT

Well, part of Rice's charter states that no building may be higher than seven
floors.  But sometime fairly recently (less than 20 years, I think) it
was decided that a new residential college needed to be built.

Sid Rich is 14 stories, but still is acceptable under the rule because the
elevator has only seven stops.  Then from the landing, a half-flight of
stairs leads in either direction to give you 14 usable levels.  It's not an
UL.

Adam
-- 
"Man is conceived in sin and born in corruption and he passeth from the
 stink of the didie to the stench of the shroud.  There is _always_
 something." -- Robert Penn Warren | Vote Cthulhu in '92! | adam@rice.edu
If Rice shared my opinions I wouldn't have this disclaimer | 64,928
From: samw@bucket.rain.com (Sam Warden)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Hacking too long!
Date: 3 Oct 92 06:07:49 GMT
Organization: Rick's Home-Grown Un*x

jrs8@quads.uchicago.edu (john richard stracke) writes:
[re: ground floor should be floor zero]
>There's a building at Northwestern Univ., where I went to college,
>that has two ground floors, since the ground is higher in the front
>than in the back. 
 
Oh.  A ones complement building.  Yes, definitly too long.  8-)
-- 
 
samw@bucket.rain.com (Sam Warden) -- and not a mere Device.
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: MDL
Date: 29 Sep 1992 17:43:12 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com

In article <8em6K2C00YV9A1kfYt@andrew.cmu.edu> Samuel Roy Helwig <sh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>    Does anyone in this group remember MDL (muddle)?  I was told that
>the original Adventure was written in it.  

No, Adventure was originally written in Fortran.  The original Zork was
written in MDL.

>					    It seems that it was an
>interactive fiction game language.  Is this true?  

Not really.  MDL was a variant of Lisp, used by a small group at the MIT
Laboratory for Computer Science (the Dynamic Modeling group) in the 70's.
Many of its distinguishing features (better abstract data type support, in
particular) eventually found their way into Common Lisp.  Lisp-like
languages are pretty good for writing natural language parsers and managing
highly-connected object structures, and this is presumably why the Zork
authors used it (Zork was the first adventure game that permitted free-form
sentences as commands, rather than requiring rigid adherence to a simple
syntax).
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,talk.bizarre
From: Joel Sumner <js17@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: You know when you're hacking too long when...
X-Xxdate: Tue, 29 Sep 92 20: 57:06 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: js17@cornell.edu
Organization: Trapped at Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:52:43 GMT



When you think of the lyrics of "Jump! Jump!" by Kris Kross and wonder if
they
can be assembled.....

(and on what CPU...)
Joel Sumner
js17@cornell.edu
q4kx@cornella (Bitnet)
-----------------------------------------------------------
.sig under construction (like the rest of Cornell)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: hacking too long
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:30:04 GMT

sbakerjr@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:

>I was looking for a street in the local road directory and it suddenly
>occurred to me that it would be a brilliant idea to include a ^Qf function 
>in street directories.

>Turbo C users may understand...


Wordstar users may understand even more....
(Personally, I'd want grep)
^Kd

-- 
Paul Tomblin, pt@geovision.gvc.com
(This is not an official opinion/statement of GeoVision Systems Inc.)
Anybody who doesn't wear a helmet when biking probably _will_ have their head
examined - by a coroner
From: pw@panix.com (Paul Wallich)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Kaypro 88?
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:18:48 GMT
Organization: Trivializers R Us

In <1anongINNt5o@bigboote.WPI.EDU> mute@wpi.WPI.EDU (I hear the voices dreaming...) writes:
>Now- one of his machines was very strange. It was a Kaypro 88, the
>last of the Kaypro suitcase-sized computer line. From the outside, it
>looks like a normal Kaypro, but with a little plastic button-sticker
>saying "88." 
...
>Does anyone have any information on this machine? My hypothesis is
>that it could run both CP/M, using the Z80, and MS-DOS, using the
>8088. Am I correct on this? We couldn't get it to boot using the
>Kaypro 2 or 4 system disks.

It's a variant of the K4, uses slightly different system disks (as
I recall) because it has to set up the communication between the
Z80 and the 8088. It runs generic MS-DOS programs (i.e. the screen
is nothing like pc-compatible) in addition to the standard CP/M
stuff. 

In addition to running both operating systems you can also use the
256K (mondo memory in those days) MS-DOS memory as a ramdisk for
the cp/m side. I set up a friend with this combination and a boot
routine that would place a 240K Perfect Writer swap file on the
ramdisk -- for the time it was an almost perfect writing machine.

The MSDOS and CP/M disks are not compatible, of course, and you can
either write a short program (e.g. turbo pascal) to copy stuff out
of ramdisk memory and onto a pc disk, or find the update software
from the people who built the daughterboard (SWTC? One of the other
usual suspects?) that will copy from one disk format to the other.

I have many fond memories of this machine -- still have most of the
manuals and disks somewhere, but the box itself is on permanent loan
to my friend in the midwest (who is now using a zenith laptop, more's
the humiliation)

paul
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: adam@owlnet.rice.edu (Adam Justin Thornton)
Subject: Re: Connection Machine posters (was Re: Mean-looking iron: design decision or just cool stuff?)
Organization: Milo's Meadow
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:42:11 GMT

In article <1apkvcINN8ci@early-bird.think.com> barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
>Sorry, but we don't have posters to send to the general public.  Only a
>limited number of CM5 posters were produced.

>If you have a dying child
>whose last wish is a CM5 poster, we should be able to accomodate you

I hear Craig Shergold was looking for as many CM5 posters as he could find...

Adam
-- 
"Man is conceived in sin and born in corruption and he passeth from the
 stink of the didie to the stench of the shroud.  There is _always_
 something." -- Robert Penn Warren | Vote Cthulhu in '92! | adam@rice.edu
If Rice shared my opinions I wouldn't have this disclaimer | 64,928
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov (Rick Colombo - Fermilab)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Floor numbering
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:43:52 GMT
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: bronco.fnal.gov



As I remember it, many buildings in New York don't have a 13th floor.
That is, the elevator panel just doesn't have the number 13 on it.
(Of course I'm talking about buildings with at least 13 floors. ;-)

 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *  Sure to get `Flamed' if I didn't cross all my i's and dot all my t's ;-)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,talk.bizarre
From: mattd@cltr.uq.oz.au (Matthew Deshon)
Subject: Re: You know when you're hacking too long when...
Organization: Centre for Language Teaching and Research, Uni of Queensland, AUSTRALIA.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:13:00 GMT

You start putting smiley's into hadnwritten letters :)

matt

--
Matt Deshon	  				
Applications Programmer,                     "And all my instincts they return,
Centre for Language Teaching and Research     The grand facade so soon will burn
University of Queensland		      Without a noise, without my pride
email : mattd@cltr.uq.oz.au		      I reach out from the inside."
Phone : +61 7 365 6915				- Peter Gabriel
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil)
Subject: Re: Floor numbering
Organization: IUPUI
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 14:27:59 EST

In article <1992Oct03.025244.14566@cubic.com>
hees@cubic.com (Phil Hees) writes:
 
>In article <1992Sep30.124352.1@bronco.fnal.gov> colombo@bronco.fnal.gov
>(Rick Colombo - Fermilab) writes:
>>
>>As I remember it, many buildings in New York don't have a 13th floor.
>>That is, the elevator panel just doesn't have the number 13 on it.
>>(Of course I'm talking about buildings with at least 13 floors. ;-)
>
>In Chinese-speaking countries, many buildings don't have a fourth floor,
>since the pronunciation of the word 'four' is very similar to the
>pronunciation of the word 'death'.  ("Sze" is the closest I can come to
>an English transcription.)
 
Funny...my Chinese professor never mentioned this but my Japanese
professor was very careful to instruct on the use of <yon> vs <shi>
for saying <four> since <shi> is a verbal synonum for death.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,talk.bizarre
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: You know when you're hacking too long when...
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:55:14 GMT

In article <BvGMLC.39D@tegra.com> vail@tegra.com (Johnathan Vail) writes:
>
>I hate it when the car computer crashes and I have to re-key the
>bootstrap in hex with one hand while steering with the other.

On a related subject, the DECmate games disk points out that one of the
games shouldn't be played while driving.

cjl
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:14689 rec.games.int-fiction:396
From: bqt@Minsk.docs.uu.se (Johnny Billquist)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Zork/Dungeon (was Re: MDL)
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:37:48 GMT
Organization: Uppsala University
NNTP-Posting-Host: minsk.docs.uu.se

In <1aho9eINNgqv@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC) writes:

>Speaking of GDT, what is/was the appropriate response? We found a copy
>of Dungeon our University VAX in about 1981, but had no access to
>sources (& none to the binary after the computer centre found out
>about DUa0:[GAMES]. Luckily we had copied it elsewhere by then...)

>After trying to guess at an answer to the GDT question for a while we
>gave up and patched the image to remove the check, so I never discovered
>what the right answer was.

You cannot guess the answer, since the answer is dependant of the challenge.
There exists two version of DUNGEON from DECUS. One has a fixed password,
but is only available as a binary, and the EndGame is not yet implemented
in that version. The password was (if I remember correctly):
"SUPNIK,BARNEY,70524" (I might have the numbers somewhat wrong).
The final version from DECUS, with the EndGame gives you a challenge,
to which you shall answer anoter six-letter word. The algorithm is a
kind of crypto. Basically, it works like this:
Take the first letter in the challenge, create a word from it, but
putting each successive letter after the previous, until you get a six-
letter word. (If the challenge was "SUEYFX" for example, this second
word would be "STUVWX").
Put these two words above each other, and add the word "ECORMS" below
them both, giving you three words. Now do a letter for letter XOR
for each of the six letters. The resulting sex-letter word is the answer.

>Email if you don't want to give the game away

I have a program for the HP-41 and another one for the HP48 to solve
this, if enybody would be interested. The same crypto is used for the
INCANT spell.

--
Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
CS student at Uppsala University  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se       ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.science,alt.folklore.urban
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: folklore and computing article
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 07:09:46 GMT

legend@cheshire.oxy.edu (Linda A. Malcor) writes:

To save this novice from having to wade through several hundred responsed,
assuming that she reads this group again, I will answer the question here.
If I answer NO somewhere where I don't know of an instance, please correct
me.

Lets see - I can answer "No" to 10, 14, 15, 19, 26, 32, 33, 41, 49.
Many of the answers are obvious and trivial.

: 43.  What anthropomorphic terms have you heard associated with
:      the computer (e.g., dying, eating, thinking, etc.)?

All the above.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: pv@gagme.chi.il.us (Paul Vader)
Subject: You know you've been reading news too long when...
Originator: pv@gagme
Organization: Inline Software Creations
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 00:01:35 GMT

...you see a jar of Motts Applesauce and wonder what the third sex is. PV
-- 
Paul Vader           Systems Analyst, semi-lurker, Rollerblader,
pv@gagme.chi.il.us   ex-Zen poet, FOAF, and bleeding-heart liberal
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:14681 rec.games.int-fiction:393
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Zork/Dungeon (was Re: MDL)
Date: 2 Oct 1992 15:02:06 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <1992Oct2.140243.10188@pollux.lu.se>, magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson) writes:

> The version known as 'cdungeon' is a relatively late addition. According
> to the docs, it's an almost "literal" translation of the Fortran
> version distributed as 'dungeon' - I think one of the few changes was
> that the password check to enter GDT has been removed. Below is the
> "HISTORY" file from a recent Macintosh port of cdungeon.

Speaking of GDT, what is/was the appropriate response? We found a copy
of Dungeon our University VAX in about 1981, but had no access to
sources (& none to the binary after the computer centre found out
about DUa0:[GAMES]. Luckily we had copied it elsewhere by then...)

After trying to guess at an answer to the GDT question for a while we
gave up and patched the image to remove the check, so I never discovered
what the right answer was.

Email if you don't want to give the game away

Steve


-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smckinty@france.sun.com	   BIX: smckinty
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: koziarzw@lonex.rl.af.mil (Walter Koziarz)
Subject: Re: What does PC mean? (Was: The need for ..)
Organization: RL
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 18:07:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep23.121855.1039@nynexst.com> rsilvers@nynexst.com (Robert Silvers) writes:
>In article <1992Sep23.062043.27965@Celestial.COM> bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell) writes:
>>I always thought it was the IBM (I Be Mediocre) PC (Pretty Crappy).

>	Intel Bowel Movement - Piece of Crap.

close -- *really* means --

        I(nferior) B(ut) M(arketable) P(reposterous) C(ontrivence)

Walt K.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: hees@cubic.com (Phil Hees)
Subject: Re: Counting on hands: (was: Possible UL alert)
Organization: Cubic Toll Systems
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 03:27:25 GMT

(alt.folklore.urban removed from this thread)

In article <DM.92Oct1130151@stekt2.oulu.fi> dm@stekt2.oulu.fi (Hannu Helminen)
writes:
>
>Well, I re-invented binary at about that age. So at least in
>principle, I was able to count to 2^10-1 with by fingers only. However
>in practice it was not that easy.
>
>The only difference between my binary and the real one was that my
>format was LSB first.
>
>I knew at that age that computers used only 0's and 1's, but that was
>all I knew about binary. I was very astonished later when I found out
>that my system was basically equal to the system actually used in
>computers...

Sometime around the age of nine I was bored and worked out and memorized
the powers of two up to 2^20 (of course, I had never heard of "powers of
2", binary or any such thing - it just seemed interesting).

A few weeks ago, my niece who is seven [Barmar, Patti's daughter is
growing up!] came up to me very proudly and began informing me that "two
times two is four, four times two is eight..."  She made it up to 4096
by memory.  She too had just thought that the idea of repeatedly doubling
two was interesting.

I'm surprised that no human civilizations used a power-of-two base for
their number system.  Given five fingers on a hand, base 32 (or base 16 if
we left out the thumbs) is not that much less obvious than base 10.

--
Phil Hees
hees@cubic.com
From: rhg@cpsolv.CPS.COM (Richard H. Gumpertz)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: IBM 3021 Data Cell
Date: 3 Oct 92 12:44:03 GMT
Organization: Computer Problem Solving, Leawood, Kansas, USA

I am sitting here looking at (the media cartridge of) an IBM 3021 Data Cell.
It contains 200 2" by 12" magnetic strips.  Does anybody remember what the
storage capacity of these devices was?

By the way, I've decided that the correctmodern terminology for the data cell
might be "floppy drum": after all it is a floppy medium that is wrapped
around a drum for access!

Please CC any replies by mail; my a.f.c news feed is quite intermittent!
-- 
  ==========================================================================
  | Richard H. Gumpertz        rhg@CPS.COM       VOICE&FAX: (913) 642-1777 |
  | Computer Problem Solving, 8905 Mohawk Lane, Leawood, Kansas 66206-1749 |
  ==========================================================================
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:14576 alt.folklore.urban:24534
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Floor numbering
Date: 30 Sep 92 04:14:30 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

The most complicated floor numbering scheme I have ever encountered was 
for the Barbican centre London.  I am surprised that no one has posted 
the scheme.  Well perhaps not as it is sooo complicated I would be amazed
if anyone could remember it off hand (I can't).  
Anyway this is the only place I know of where you can get out of a lift at a 
certain floor and see higher numbered floors physically below you.

Perhaps someone could pop in there,  borrow a map and post a floor plan.

Derek "I'd do it myself but it's rather a long way away" Tearne

-- 
Derek Tearne. -- derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz --  Fujitsu/ICL New Zealand -- 
Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental
consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor.  
"If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said.
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: thoughts
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:51:19 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep30.070702.29365@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>In article <26354@castle.ed.ac.uk> ercm20@festival.ed.ac.uk (Sam Wilson) writes:
>>
>>>   Incidentally, in Manhattan, West 12th Street crosses West 12th
>>>   Street.  I still haven't figured that one out...
>>
>>I don't think we've got anything quite like that - crazy New Yorkers!
>
>Isn't the intersection of "West 12th Street" and "Little West 12th Street"
>which means something a bit different.
>
>cjl (There is a 1/2 block long street in Brooklyn named Force Tube Avenue)

One of the weirdest things in the South Bay area (IMHO) is the
point where 280N and 680N meet straight on. It seems that the highways
form a U shape and meet head on. Also, along the bottom of the U,
the road markers are still north and south, even though the highways
go east and west. I use dead reckoning, and sometimes still end up
going the wrong way.


Rich

payner@netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,rec.games.int-fiction
From: J.Newman@icarus.curtin.edu.au (John Newman)
Subject: Computer hate slogans
Keywords: Pun fun
Organization: Computing Centre, Curtin University, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 07:56:35 GMT

Some collected jottings from a bunch of disgruntled
computer users:

(Feel free to add to list.)

Adios Amigas
Stone a Clone
Compact a Compaq
Crush a Cromemco
Courts Marshall the Data General
Argee to DG
Deck a DEC
Scrub the DECs
Analog DIGITAL
Be driven loco - wait on a DECStation
Slash a DOS a Day
Dsex DRAMS
Outsource Intel
Up the clock Intel it breaks
Jujitsu a Fujitsu
Detach a Hitachi
ArcHive a Honeywell
Lynch Lotus
Cut the Lynx
Attack a Mac
Microwave Microsoft
Massacre MassPar
Networks aren't a bridge over troubled routers
Definitely not neXt
Nick orf a Nixdorf
Oh 'ell Novell
No vay Novell
Oil an Olivetti
It's not Prime's time
Fume a Qume
Quash a Quadra
Silence a Singer
Gun a Sun
Toss a Toshiba
Jinx UNIX
Vaccinate a VAX
Fang a Wang
Smash Windows



(IBM doesn't get a mention!)


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\ John Newman              J.Newman@icarus.curtin.edu.au /
/ Computing Centre,           "There is less to this     \
\ Curtin University,            than meets the eye."     /                         
/ Perth, Western Australia     - Tallulah Bankhead       \
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: spitzak@gree.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Spitzak)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Floor numbering (was: Hacking too long!)
Date: 29 Sep 1992 04:27:49 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: spitzak@gree.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: gree

> On floor numbering schemes:

In an apartment building I am familiar with, the two bottom floors the elevator
goes to are "Upper Parking" and "Lower Parking".  The button for the first one
in the elevator says "UP".

Bill Spitzak


Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: xexeo@dxcern.cern.ch (Geraldo Xexeo)
Subject: Re: REQUEST: net.celebrities listing
Keywords: had it, lost it
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:47:27 GMT

net.celebrities verion 1.89.5 can be found in 

hplaa02.cern.ch 
directory pub
file      netcel

for anonymous ftp. 

during a short period of time

Due to constructive critics received, the list will change a bit in 
the future. BUT, since Iam moving back to Brazil in December, I
froze it until I can expend time on it again. I intend to have
a new version on March 1993 in the net. 

If someone would like to collaborate with information, send mail
to me. 


The current list is not updated with my last contributions. Now
I know that Douglas Adams and Rudy Rucker are really on the net,
for example.

         Thanks,

                       Jerry

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geraldo Xexeo      |internet: xexeo@dxcern.cern.ch | "Cristo Redentor,    
CERN - PPE Division|bitnet:   gxexeo@cernvm.bitnet |  Bracos abertos sobre a
1211 Geneve 23     |decnet:   vxcern::xexeo        |  Guanabara...
Switzerland        |FAX:      (41) (22) 785 - 0207 |  Rio, eu gosto de voce!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:14504 talk.bizarre:31899