From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: military occupation
Date: 17 Dec 92 04:17:51 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

To: Josh Backon

First things first: did you receive my message in which I
requested you to post the precise words in which Avraham Burg
retracted his comparison of Israeli to German racism? I would
really like to see the quote, if you can find it. It would also
serve as a useful correction to the clip I posted here.

With regard to your quibbling about the details of the Defense
Emergency Regulations: I really think you are failing to see the
forest for the trees. The details in 1992 may vary somewhat from
those presented Schoenman's book in 1988, but the overall picture
is quite clear: the human and civil rights of the Palestinians in
the occupied territories are being massively violated by Israel.
We could go through the exercise of listing all the violations,
case by case, but I think everyone here is familiar with the
problem. The situation is untenable: no human being would
tolerate this state of affairs for very long without engaging in
strong resistance.

If most Israelis fail to appreciate this point, then I truly do
think that Israel is a lost cause and that the Western democratic
world will before long cut any meaningful ties with her.

I just noticed in a post from Schmidling that John Anderson will
be heading up an organization dedicated to taking on the Israeli
lobby in the U.S. If I were an emotional pro-Israel supporter, I
would see that as an ominous sign indeed, and as an indicator of
the extraordinary degree to which the behavior and rhetoric of
Israel and its American lobby is beginning to turn off and
alienate mainstream America.

What, btw, do you propose to do about the nearly 2 million
Palestinians in the occupied territories? Keep them under the
boot of the Israeli military occupation for another two decades?
Make them Israeli citizens with full democratic rights? Expel
them? Give them their own state?

 JB> Wayne McGuire's obsession with Israel leads me to ask one
 JB> question:

 JB> HOW MANY TIMES have you made a fact-finding tour of Israel
 JB> and WHICH PLACES did you visit ?

 JB> Until I get an answer Wayne, I'll be your Cato ("Ceterum
 JB> censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"). I'll repeat my question
 JB> until you're blue in the face. Until then Wayne, put up or
 JB> shut up

If I understand your logic correctly, Josh, any American Jew who
hadn't personally visited and inspected the Soviet Union in the
seventies and early eighties had no right to speak out about
human rights abuses against Jews there, right? And any American
who hasn't visited South Africa has no right to speak out about
human rights abuses in that country, correct? Sorry, but I don't
buy your premise, but feel free to turn blue in the face if it
makes you happy.

 JB> My query extends to all those non-Arabs who are obsessed
 JB> with Israel. Ask yourself why Israel is on your agenda.

I am always surprised that so many pro-Israelists can't grasp the
fundamental point here: non-Arab Americans have taken a strong
interest in the Mideast and Israel because we have had these
issues shoved in our faces and down our throats by the Israeli
lobby. Israel receives the lion's share of American foreign aid,
nearly $1,000 per Israeli per annum. Because of our close
connections to Israel, Israeli actions rebound on the U.S. in
often unpleasant ways.

If Israel stops demanding that the U.S. be so deeply involved in
her affairs, and gives up U.S. foreign aid, I think most
Americans would not give much thought or attention to Israel at
all. That would be a much healthier situation all around, I
think.
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Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23560 soc.culture.arabic:5694