HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tmv@blitzen.uucp (26129-vandewater)
Subject: Re: DCI North Comments & Scores
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 02:55:02 GMT

Michael,

To add a bit to your story (and comment on it!)
> 
>      I think the animosity between Phanton and Garfield began at
> the end of the '82 season.  
I agree...
> 
>    I girl that I marched with (Jody Weakland) went to Garfield in '83-
> '85.  
(PERSONAL NOTE:  by the way, Jody works out at my gym...should I
tell her you said hi?)

> I know that Phantom stole a stuffed animal (Garfield, the cartoon
> character) from one of the Cadets buses in '84?  I believe they strung
> it up in one of their buses with a noose around its neck.
  
Yes, this was in 83.  They stole the
cat from our buses and put it in a noose in the front of their first
bus.  Anyway, we stole it back and since we were good friends with
Spirit, we gave it to Spirit and they put in on their first bus.  Then,
at each show we toured with Phantom at retreat (each show was basically
a full retreat back then) they played to us and they marched behind
us off the field...BUT, (and here's the point of my story) they
would play three base drum beats and say......beat....beat
beat..."we want our pussy back" ..beat..beat..beat.."we want our
pussy back" etc.  I was surprised they did this while in uniform.
It was actually pretty funny and they did it to us at each show.

> 
>    Let me state for the record that Garfield were no angels either.
> They continually made fun of Phantom at their own rehearsals carrying
> on a parody of Phantom's Spartacus show.  
This was not in 83....possibly later years.
> 
>    The 27th Lancers were another favorite target for Garfield
> as their guard would commence on doing warm-up spins and counting:
>    ...... 24, 25, 26, 27 sucks, 28, 29, 30.....
Yes, we did this at our rehearsals...but never to them publically
or while in uniform...it actually made you look forward to push-up
number 27 on your way to 30!
> 
>    Remember in '83:  1- Garfield, 2-Blue Devils, 3-SCV, when it
> was the Vanguard's turn to pass in review they turned and played
> to the Blue Devils, snubbing Garfield.   It was stated that it
> was SCV's drum majors decision to do this on retreat after the
> scores were announced and that Gail Royer had no idea that this
> was going to happen.   Royer sent a letter of apology to the Cadets 
> for their actions and it was read to the Cadets entire corps.  
> Now that's DIRT!
> 
Yes, this happened and the crowd booed them out of the stadium.  I saved
this letter and I'll post it in my next reply...

Tom
---
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: SCV's '89 illegal members (Re: Bridgemen)
From: wmetz@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:56:19 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

If you look at the DCI Today from Sept./Oct. of 1989 (The post Championships
edition) you will find the following article about the two members of SCV that
were DQ'ed.

"During a routine check on the names of members who were marching in this
year's top 25 corps, it was discovered that there were discrepancies with the
birth dates of two members of the Santa Clara Vanguard.

"The two members in question were citizens of the United Kingdom.  After their
information was examined by sources in England, it was decided that they should
be investigated and verified by the British Consulate.  Through this process,
it was discovered that their documents were of questionable validity.

"The director of the Santa Clara Vanguard was informed that a member of his
corps was probably over the age of 21.  Upon learning of the first incident on
August 8, he immediately dismissed the member from his corps.  After
discovering on August 15 that the same circumstances surrounded another member,
he also immediately dismissed the member that day.

"Due to the fact that the corps was a victim of circumstances out of their
control, and that the individuals were dismissed upon learning of the
situation, it was determined that the corps would not be held accountable or
receive any penalties under the contest rules.

"The United States and British authoritieshave been notified that these
individuals may be in possession of falsified government documents and the
appropriate action is being taken.

"Immediately following this incident, all citizens of foreign countries
marching in DCI corps were being checked for their document's validity.  In
addition, DCI is now in the process of working with the foriegn consulates to
devise a system to research and verify the eligibility of all foriegn citizens
who are marching in DCI member corps."


Any other stories on corps that were DQ'ed?
From: GRS00169@APPSTATE.EDU (GRS9999101)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Oldtimer new to network
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:49:38 GMT
Organization: APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

In <1992Jul22.143237.24502@ncsu.edu> jvbutera@grad01.math.ncsu.edu writes:

> In article <1992Jul21.175625.26772@exu.ericsson.se> exujsch@exu.ericsson.se (Johnny Schmittou T-EEG x7887 Dallas) writes:
> >
> >I didn't see if anyone had mentioned these guys, but how about
> >"The Muchachos" from Hawthorne, New Jersey?  (Around say, 1976?)
> >We (my high school marching band) had an album recorded live from
> >a contest with that corps on it.  They did a tune called "Pictures
> >of Spain" (I had also heard this referred to as "Off the Line"?)
>                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> No, Johnny.  As far as I've been marching, off the line is a phrase
> used to describe the opening, or first song in a show.  Anyone else
> have this or other interpreptation?
> 

No, Jeff.  _Off-the-line_, besides being a prase meaning "opener" and a
wonderfully produces Drumcorps Publication, just also happens to be the name of
several tunes arranged for Marching Band.  Most of the time, these tunes are
in the category that i call "Standard-High-School-Fiery-Spanish-Opener"
made famous by corps in the 70's.
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: holt_c@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: A few scores from POC prelims
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 23:33:46 GMT

Nashville, TN.  July 24, prelims

1.	Star of Indiana			91.9
2.	Blue Devils			89.7
3.	Cavaliers			89.2
4.	Madison Scouts			88.5
5.	Phantom Regiment		88.1
6.	Cadets of Bergen County		88.0
7.	Santa Clara Vanguard		86.2
8.	Blue Knights			85.8
9.	Crossmen			85.3
10.	Velvet Knights			81.8
11.	Bluecoats			78.0
12.	Freelancers			77.6
13.	Glassmen			??.?	(* ????????????? *)
14.	Spirit of Atlanta		??.?
15.	Sky Ryders			??.?
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F)
Subject: Re: competitive spirit (was Re:Bridgemen)
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:17:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.033932.10700@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> tmv@blitzen.uucp (26129-vandewater) writes:
>In article <1992Jul26.041842.26071@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F) writes:
>> Anyway, as someone who has marched both Blue Devils and Phantom, I have a
>> few words to add on this subject. (BTW, I marched '83 and '84 Phantom and
>> '85 Devs.) After being totally abused and brainwashed in Rockford for 2
>             ----- ----- ------- ------ --- -----------
>> years, I am relieved to say that I finally had enough sense to go to a
>> corps that has a real winning attitute. 
>Strong words! 

True, but I guess I have pretty strong feelings on the subject.

>THanks for that post...I found it really interesting coming from an
>ex PHantom and BD.  I'm curious what other Phantom alumni think
>about the corps...I appreciated your honesty.  Do you think
>that this attitude is helping kids grow thru life?  I'm kinda
>sorry I started this discussion but I found your post very
>interesting!

Before I get branded as a total Phantom-basher, let me expound a bit;

I do not mean to imply that I never had any positive experiences at
Phantom - In many ways, it was in fact a great experience. BUT - I
do have some serious reservations about the way the corps was treated
and how we came across to other corps and the general public. I could
go on with examples, but I don't really see any point to it, and I
believe that the corps has changed a great deal since then anyway, so
the argument is mute.

I guess what I am really trying to say is this: The most important 
thing that kids can learn from corps has nothing to do with music
or marching. The real point is to learn how to win and lose with
your peers and how to work towards a common goal with other young
people. (Note that having a goal to win is not, in my opinion,
detrimental to this end). I try to stress this as a teacher, and
I just feel that the Phantom staff in the early '80's lost sight
of the real meaning of drum corps. After all, what's wrong with
fourth place, for God's sake? We beat and were beaten by great corps
in '83 and '84, and to belittle a fourth place finish is an insult
to the many fine corps that finished 5th - ??th.

OK - done rambling. My best regards to anantom alums reading.
Anybody out there?

-- Brad


-- 
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Brad Halls                                "Still looking for witty quote."
Computer Science Grad Student              -me         
Oakland University
Rochester, Michigan
bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Metheny and marching
From: <MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 21 Jul 1992 11:46:29 EDT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

In article <1992Jul18.195425.23077@hubcap.clemson.edu>
rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry) writes:
>
>But Donald's remark doesn't mean no drum corps have played Sousa.  He
>means that you should not automatically think Sousa when you think of
>drum corps.  The two should not be synonymous.
 
Absolutely.
 
>Unfortunately, many do consider them so.  Listen to Pat Metheny's First
>Circle.  The first track is his impression of the sound of a marching
>organization.
 
Au contraire, mes amis.  I'm afraid I'd have to side with Metheny on this
one.  The first track on First Circle is not his impression of the sound
of a marching band...it is his impression of the sound of a BAD marching
band, of which we all know there is no shortage.  I find the piece, titled
*Forward March*, to be a load of laughs.  Some of the musical miscues that
are featured in the piece are so typical of the mistakes made by novice
musicians (and are so convincingly simulated here) that you'd almost think
that you were listening to a bunch of novices.
 
For the record, I have been a percussion arranger and instructor for
several area bands since 1981.   I have been a drum corps fan since
1979.  I am well aware of the apathy of the general public toward marching
orginizations with regard to quality and repetoire.  But one must realize
that the only time that the vast majority of the general public sees a
marching orginazation is at a football game (where the sports fans paid to
see anything BUT a marching band) or a parade (where 99% of the time, the
repetoire of choice is a march).
 
There is good and bad in everything, and the musical idioms are no exception.
There are bad jazz bands, bad symphony orchestras, bad rock bands.  That
doesn't prevent us from enjoying the good ones.  I believe Metheny knows
good music when he hears it, and intended no insult to marching units
in general....he just wanted us to have a good chuckle.  I can't believe
that anyone has ever listened to *Forward March* and as a result, concluded
that all marching bands sound like this and therefore resolved never to
listen to another one.
 
Of course, your mileage may differ :).
 
Mike Hughes
From: fath1@husc8.harvard.edu (Michael Fath)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: First Circle
Date: 26 Jul 92 19:34:37 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Jul26.045514.27496@vela.acs.oakland.edu> bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F) writes:
>difficult to find a beat to. The part went something like this:
>
>oxx ox oxx ox ox oxx oxx ox ox (3-2-3-2-2-3-3-2-2).
>
>The x's are the hand claps, and the spaces were added for clarity.
>If it looks a little intimidating, don't worry... it took us a while
>to figure it out, too.
>
>-- Brad Halls (no .sig file yet.. still working on it.)

Brad, 

Thank you for posting this!!  It has alway driven me crazy that
I wasn't able to learn the First Circle
rhythm.  Now I know it!!
-- 
MM   MM FFFFF 	Michael Fath		fath1@husc.harvard.edu
M M M M F	Dept of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics
M  M  M FFF     Harvard Medical School         
M     M F       Boston, MA 02115				**Enjoy life!
From: gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: overagers (correction)
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:13:45 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University

>How about SCV 1989 when they won.  They had two people (a snare and someone
>else) who came over from Europe apparantly with fade ID's and the works. 
>Somehow, they were found out and kicked out in the weeks before finals.
>DCI actually met later to decide if SCV should've had their title removed,
>but didn't because the offenders didn't march ion finals.
>

Not quite... SCV wasn't penalized because they didn't KNOW that the
overagers were overage.  i.e., it was not SCV's fault, they were just
as duped (by the kids in question) as DCI was.  Did anyone notice that
they marched 11 snares all season then only 9 during finals week?

Scott
From: dawson@willard.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: SCV in 1981
Date: 25 Jul 92 20:25:39 GMT
Organization: Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814

tmv@blitzen.uucp (26129-vandewater) writes:

> In article <1992Jul23.122409.14097@husc3.harvard.edu>, fath1@husc9.harvard.ed
> > >Pete Ohno
> > >SCV '81, EUPH Platoon
> > So, you marched with SCV when they won DCI!  Congrats!  If you get a chance
> > tell us about it.  It must have been incredible.
> 
> This brings a question to light...how many of us netters were in a 
> corps that won DCI?  I think I kind of lucked out...I only marched
> one year in drum corps (1983) and happened to pick the corps that
> won finals (Garfield).  So, after that one year I retired! :-)
> 
> Tom
> ---

I suppose you remember Sevierville, TN?  ...and the highly unusual encore
that followed, wherein Garfield and Spirit performed together...

-- 
  Willard Dawson
      another lucky so-and-so
          who only marched one year and
              then aged out, darn it all.
                  SOA   '83
                      "Blow, Southerners, Blow!"   '83, '85
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: tmv@blitzen.uucp (26129-vandewater)
Subject: Re: Bridgemen
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 14:46:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.194112.29683@hubcap.clemson.edu>, rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry) writes:
> If I
> remember correctly the board voted and the final tally was 22-1 against
> disqualifying SCV (Phantom stood alone, they have such a wonderful
> competitive spirit in Rockford.)

Well, I can continue to bash Phantom once again but the above statement
says it all for me....can someone defend this corps?  Then again, in
Phantom's defense, they did come in second in 89, and without SCV
they would have won...but is that the way you want to win finals?
Sorry about all the Phantom bashing, but THEY DESERVE IT!!  I'm concerned
that they are not educating their members on the value of competition...

Tom
---

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: kal@vaxeline.ftp.com (Kelleigh A. Lewis)
Subject: Re: Drills and Drillwriting
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:31:38 GMT

In article <5DiNoB2w165w@willard.UUCP> dawson@willard.UUCP writes:
>DER107@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>
>Well, no, I didn't work under Zingali, but I did actually get to meet him.
>I remember standing in the stands at Miami to watch Garfield's encore.....
>One would have thought that he'd seen enough... but the man was absolutely
>orgasmic over every move in the show.  Most amazing!  Was he so in love
>with his own work, or was he deeply mired in appreciation for Garfield's
>execution?  Perhaps someone from that era that actually worked with him
>knows...

>>>I marched under George, and my fiance wrote and taught with him. George
put his heart and soul into everything he did! He loved and was hopelessly
devoted to the activity and writing drills. There are many drill writers out 
there that do it for the money, or some other reason...George did it for the
kids! George Zingali was an artist, and just as a painter, or a sculpter would
love his art, George loved his drills!

 my $.02

  Kelleigh
From: hall@cs.uidaho.edu (Kelly Hall)
Subject: Re: Rolly Foot
Organization: University of Idaho CS Dept.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:56:18 GMT
X-Posted-From: leopard.cs.uidaho.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Jul28.062207.5193@polari> cdoser@polari.online.com writes:
   I marched in corps in the '70s, then taught in the early to mid
   '80s. I came back to the activity in '90, and no-one could answe
    this question:
       Where did this super rolly foot walk come from, who started it,
       what purpose does it serve?

My instructors always harped on rolling the foot from heel to toe while
marching, to keep your upper body smooth and level.  Also, it looks nice
for the entire corps to have a consistent marching style.  But boy was I
surprised when I saw my first East Coast corps (North Star) - those guys
were so exagerated that they looked as if they were pedalling a bicycle
when they marched.  Our rolling was much more subdued.

Don't get me wrong - I've come to appreciate that SUPER-rolling style
of marching.  Not for me, but I like to watch it.

   | Cathy Doser        *     Black Watch       ||---____________  \ __   |
   | P.O. Box 69271     *      1972-1978             / /          \ |  \  |

Wow - real live BW people!  I started out in Renaissane in '79 and '80, and
the BW was held in high regard by those vets in-the-know.  I got to see
there '79 show once (in Medford, OR) and I really liked Parade of the Tall
Ships.  What a shame so many good corps have bit the dust.

Anyone out there remember back when the Marauders were called the Who?  Or
was this a viscious rumor?

--
Kelly Hall == hall@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu
no disclaimer, no cute quotes
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Can SCV beat BD? 
From: peteo@ingres.com (THE OLDER I GET, THE BETTER I USED TO BE)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:16:59 -0700
Return-Receipt-To: peteo@ingres.com
Cc: PETEO@ingres.com
Status: R
Originator: fath1@husc8.harvard.edu

lesse, SCV has a chance to win it all. The way we planned things (I think
this is how the staff did it), we cleaned a lot (big surprise, huh?) but
we also added things here and there.  Basically, as the show got cleaner
there were more things that were subtle to increase the overall GE of the 
show. oops, that should be 'were subtly added'. The way BD did it, was to 
attach 'sparkly things' to the end of their drumsticks, flags, rifles, etc.
Summary, BD usually has their entire show ready when the season starts, but
this limits what they do later and sometimes they peak to early.  SCV 
keeps adding things (like the tear-away jerseys in '81) as the season 
progresses. We had the tear-aways all season, but didn't actually tear
them away until the DCMidwest show. The drill, however had already anticipated
this and therefore the staff knew exactly where to put the move in.  It
was VERY subtle; couple of rotating circles in the early season, but when  
DCMidwest came we individually handed the tear-away to an auxiliary person.
Voila, when we turn to the box (judges box- remember this jargon?) new 
jerseys (or more correctly, the old drum major's uniform.) So, half the 
season, old jerseys at company front; 2nd half, new jerseys. You remember
the green pants -> white change in 85(?)? Subtle sight tricks are a time-
honored SCV tradition.

So, will SCV win?  Possibly. BD is really sharp(!), but I don't know if 
they'll peak at the right time. Their show was pretty good at PP and I
didn't see anything that they could add to their show to increase the GE.
We'll see.  Tell me how the East and MidW go.  I vividly remember the 
scores in the East (when I marched) were usually 3-8 points than ours.
It was kind of scary to here that, but we were reassured by Gail (who had
seen the shows in person) that we were par with them.  To this day, I 
recall 27th blowing away the comp in the east, and Scouts and PR dueling
in the MidW. (please excuse the obvious mistakes above.  corrections: 3-8
points higher; scary to hear that.) 
-- 
MM   MM FFFFF 	Michael Fath		fath1@husc.harvard.edu
M M M M F	Dept of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics
M  M  M FFF     Harvard Medical School         
M     M F       Boston, MA 02115				**Enjoy life!
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: 1992 Cavies best show ever? 
From: fath1@husc
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 08:20:36 -0400
Return-Receipt-To: fath1@husc (Michael Fath)
To: bfath@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Cc: fath1
Status: R
Originator: fath1@husc8.harvard.edu

As far as Cavies, I haven't seen them since June, and as time goes by, the
image always seem to improv{.  In 1990, there were a lot of parts that
I really loved.  But for me the problem was that 1990 and 1991 were basically
variations of the 1989 theme.  The reason I like this year so much is that
they really tried something new and that I liked what they tried so much.  It
{gives me more respect for their originality and leadership.


-- 
MM   MM FFFFF 	Michael Fath		fath1@husc.harvard.edu
M M M M F	Dept of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics
M  M  M FFF     Harvard Medical School         
M     M F       Boston, MA 02115				**Enjoy life!
From: gwr@tantalum.eds.com (George Rapp)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: [SCORES] Dallas, TX 07/29/92 - Festival of Drums and Bugles
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:49:26 GMT
Reply-To: gwr@edsr.eds.com
Organization: EDS Research

7.  Delta Brigade	43.2
6.  Black Gold		63.0
5.  Colts		66.6
4.  Sky Ryders		73.0
3.  Glassmen		76.2
2.  Phantom Regiment	87.4
1.  Cavaliers		89.7

No caption awards were announced, and I didn't stick around 
long enough to ask about getting a score sheet.

Comments later ...

---
George Rapp                              Electronic Data Systems Corporation
EDS Research                             7171 Forest Lane, C212
(UUCP: uunet!edsr!midearthmail!gwr)      Dallas, Texas  75230   214/661-6478
(Internet: gwr@edsr.eds.com or edsr!gwr@uunet.uu.net)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon)
Subject: old timers
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:28:13 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University

matthews@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Thomas W. Matthews):
> Anybody remember the California Dons?  They did "Carmen" long before SCV did.

The last of the big Spanish-style corps.  I especially liked their version
of "Besame Mucho".

Scott G.

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: holt_c@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Off the Line and other Spanich
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 04:36:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.235449.1@ducvax.auburn.edu>, jglover@ducvax.auburn.edu (Jay Glover) writes:
> charts)  "OtL" does possess a spanish flavor.  Btw, by my third year
> in marching band, I had played all three on the field.   My best 
> percussion friend swears there is only one spanish song percussion
> part.  He claims to be able to play the different songs' parts
> interchangebly with any other song.
> 
>  - jay g.

If you think that's bad, the tenor players in my high school marching band had
parts that they used interchangeably with all the songs we played for every
year I was there.  Which was amazing considering that we took high percussion
at state two times.

						Charles Holt