From: patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell)
Subject: Re: need help with stubborn horse
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:44:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.215330.5186@morrow.stanford.edu> GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) writes:
>In article <Bu2M3p.631@news.larc.nasa.gov>,
>patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell) writes:
>>
>> It is difficult to say from what you have told us, but let me suggest a few
>> exercises to see if this is indeed the problem. Working on a LOOSE rein
>> (think of your horse as a western cow pony), can you play with the horse's
>> balance? Try some short turns, no larger than say about 5m. (working at the
>> canter, by the way) Can you stop on a dime?
>
>Patty, I agree totally with what you say about the fact that this
>horse is unbalanced....BUT. As a side note to the origninal poster
>(whose name I don't remember), PLEASE don't expect your horse to
>"stop on a dime"! I think you said this horse was green, and a green
>horse isn't going to be able to balance well from the canter the the
>trot, let alone to the walk or halt. Especially if the horse is
>built "downhill" or is lazy. Don't rip his face off trying to get a
>fast halt. A gradual but correct and listening downward transition
>through a couple of trot strides and a walk stride or two would be
>more valuable.  Most importantly, like Patty says,
>
>> This is training for the shows a year or two
>> (or ten) from now, not the show next month.
>
>He'll get it, but it's a long slow process. And frustrating! But
>good luck, and use those half-halts!!
>
>=gwyn

Gwyn, let me clarify. I said LOOSE rein meaning absolutely don't tear
up the horse's mouth. I was trying to ascertain exactly where the horse
was in training, not trying to suggest she go out and try that just
for the heck of it. For that matter, maybe I should have asked if the
horse even new what a half-halt was. Anyway, Sarah says this is a 
10 year old TB, and enclosed is the response I sent directly to her
before I read the net this morning. She asked me about my background, so
here it is.


Sarah,

My background, believe it or not, is dressage. My trainer is Jan Dickerson,
a woman who I believe (of course I'm not biased or anything) is one of
the few people in this country who not only understands the true training
techniques of the old dressage masters, but has the *ability to articulate*
those techniques and why they are really not working in this country (except
for a few talented riders that make it to the top levels of dressage). She
has written several books
	Training Your Own Young Horse
	Make the Most of Your Horse
	A New Look at Classical Dressage (serialized in Dressage & CT Magazine
	and still under work)

Something that few dressage enthusiasts in this country seem to grasp is
that a horse does not need to be collected in a frame to work from behind!
A horse can learn how to "get on his backend" for short turns and transitions
and that is the foundation for the later work in a frame. I have the feeling
that I'm not saying this very well. Jan is a journalist by training, which
is why she can articulate things so well. Her books read very easily, yet
at the same time, every time I re-read her books, I get something new out
of them.


Anyway, back to your horse. You are very perceptive to use the word "handy"
western horse! That's exactly what I meant. This is the foundation of 
everything! Once your horse learns to come back to hand temporarily, it
will be easy to "set him up for a jump" (your a jumper, right?) and the
turns, shorten or lengthen his stride between jumps, etc. Now that I have
a better feel for the level your horse is at (I was thinking young green
horse and what you have is an "older" green horse as far as learning the
language of balance is concerned) let me suggest that you find a *oldtime*
western instructor that knows how to make the reins act thru the horse
and put him on his hindend. If that is not possible or in the meantime,
I'm not kidding - roll backs! Canter along a fenceline, about the horse's
bodylength away from the fence or a little more. When you get to the corner,
sit a little deeper in the saddle, (that will be the horse's cue for 
getting temporarily on his hind end to prepare for a turn or transition
later - it is very important) lean a little in the direction of the turn,
and DON'T LET HIM SLOW DOWN. He has to get his balance back and his hind
legs under him or he'll go thru the fence. And he's not going to do that
(unless he's a wild man, in which case he needs a lot more trail riding)
Quick stops and starts are another good exercise. Again, use a visual aid
to help give hime the idea at first. Canter straight into a fence and don't
let him slow down or stop until the last minute. 

In both of these exercises, it is very important to leave his head alone!
I like to work young horses in balance with a bosal. This is a little like
giving medical advise over the phone. You really need a trainer. 

Once you get the idea across, take him out and do short turns around trees,
etc. In short, get mileage at getting temporarily on his backend. Until
it becomes second nature that at a tuck of your seat, he comes back to hand
*and then goes on*

I strongly advise against putting this horse in side reins. All that will
teach him is how to get behind the bit on even further on his forehand. I
guarantee that he knows how to get on his backend out in the field when
he gets excited, ie the muscles are there. You just need to learn how to
teach him to do that on command. 

The first time you try a tight turn, he's going to be very awkward and try
to stop. Keep him going! And leave his head alone! 

It was Xenophan, in 400BC that wrote the first book on horsemanship (that
we know about at least). He broke training down into three stages:
	1. Basic saddlebreaking, so the horse can be ridden at the walk,
	trot and canter. This book was a treatise on horsemanship that
	he wrote for his nephews, and the only horses broken back then
	were stallions, so since he didn't want his nephews killed he
	suggested sending the horse out for this part, but to "be careful
	who you pick"

	2. Make them handy
	  a. long trail rides to get them comfortable with a rider and 
	  *going forward*
	  b. exercises to bring them back to hand. and he had 3 favorites
		i. racing up and down a line with quick turns at either end
		(roll backs)
		ii. small circles
		iii. quick stops and starts

	3. If you care for that sort of thing, you can teach them to "prance
	and dance" (ie put them in a frame of collection - or "dressing" the
	horse)

Quite a perceptive man.

I hope that helps. Let me know how things go.

patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov