From: justin@inmet.camb.inmet.COM (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks)
Subject: Pennsic War/Fair/etc; EK Crown; Period Dance
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:13:55 GMT

Re: The Pennsic Whatchamacallit

Cosmano asks:
>        Question:  Which do people prefer?  The Pennsic *War* or the 
>Pennsic *Grand Fair* (or was it a "Police Action" ;)?

Personally, I prefer "Pennsic Fair" -- I think it describes the thing
far better than "War" does, nowadays. I *don't* like this "Police
Action" cuteseypoo -- I rather suspect that all this wink-and-nod
silliness is one reason why so many people wound up so down on the
idea...

(Not meaning to flame you, Cosmano -- you just brought up one of
my buttons.)

>As      
>Lord Alexander of Kiev recounts, the Populace at Eastern Crown
>were obviously interested in the "good old war" format.  Is there 
>really a difference?  Is it just semantics?

Well, I will add that *some* of us weren't so impressed with the
switch back to a "War". I wasn't at all *surprised*, but I certainly
wasn't happy with the whole thing...

Is there a difference besides the name? Well, no, but a name means
a lot. The whole reason for the change was that Their Nibs of the
East and Middle were hoping that changing the name might reduce the
tensions between the sides that had been brewing in recent years;
based on what I saw, and the reports from XX, I'd say it worked.
But some were offended because the name broke with tradition, because
it doesn't fit with their ideals (a "War" is, to some people, far
more glorious than a "Tourney" at a "Fair"), or simply because it
was sprung on them at the last minute.

It's a damn shame, in my opinion. I still think that it was a good
idea, but it wasn't well-handled. Instead of getting reasonable
discussion in advance, everyone made up their minds based on gut
reactions, and no one's changing them now. As a result, it'll be
years before "The Pennsic Fair" could be tried again...

>        I remember about two years ago some good gentle posted a proposal
>on "The SCA Grand Fair", an event borne out of the idea that mayhaps
>we  are out-growing our site at Pennsic, and this in itself was because
>Pennsic is supposedly the single largest Society event held on an
>annual basis.  If this is true, mayhaps the "Pennsic Fair" is the
>better idea?  What thinks who?

Well, the Grand Fair was my idea; I've backed off from it for a couple
of reasons. Firstly, I'm getting more and more skeptical that we really
*are* outgrowing Cooper's Lake -- there's been a lot of sweat every
year, but we really haven't ever had *major* problems. If we ever get
an autocratting team that is less than fully competent, we might have
a disaster on our hands, but so far things really haven't been that bad.
(And since the Grand Fair would be intended to take over as The Big Event,
it wouldn't make the general problem of fitting that many people into
an event any easier.)

Also, several people rightly pointed out that the main reason that we
*can* handle Pennsic is that the site is increasingly customized to
our needs -- if we tried to move around from year to year, we would
probably have some real site problems. Worldcon manages because there
are lots of mundane convention centers out there -- it isn't clear
that there are nearly so many sites that could handle the Grand Fair.

Finally, there's a recognition that, no matter what you call it, Pennsic
is becoming The Grand Fair. The geographic makeup of the event gets
broader every year, and the battles get less important. It's not
perfect -- I'd still prefer something that rotated around the Kingdoms,
and got more year-to-year variety -- but it's not half-bad. And given
that fact, the name doesn't matter *that* much...


Re: EK Crown

Kwellend writes:
>The new Crown Prince and Princess were invested on the field.  HRH
>Kikuchi and his lady HRH Genevieve are, I understand, from upstate
>New York mundanely.  This would have made Sir Wulfstan Admiral of the
>Eastern Armies.

Whereas, if they had been from Massachusetts, he would have become
Chief Cook and Bottle Washer? (Yes, I know what you meant, but it
really reads oddly...)

In all seriousness, I must agree with Kwellend -- this was a really
pleasant Crown to watch. All the fights I saw looked clean, and the
finals were wonderfully so. It's so nice when you can look at the
finals of Crown, and see that both of the contenders are about as
chivalrous as you could want. And I just love the idea of getting
a King who virtually *apologized* for not voluntarily giving up his
arm in the final bout. Most fighters I know wouldn't even consider
the idea during Crown...


Re: Period Dance

Simon responds to William:
>>   I confess my ignorance. To me, it [Strip the Willow] looks very medieval.
>Well, here's comment number one (start now and avoid the rush!):
>        You have never seen a medieval dance.  
>
>Unless I am grossly wrong, we don't have have any.  All of our historically
>attested dances come from the Renaissance.

Well, yes and no -- it's worth making a technical distinction here. We
do know what medieval dances *looked* like. We don't know how they
*moved*. That is to say, we have a modest number of paintings depicting
people dancing, but there are limits to what we can figure out from
those paintings.

That said, it's worth pointing out that, based on the evidence that I've
seen, Strip the Willow looks even less like a medieval dance than it
does a renaissance one. As Aryk mentioned, if you want something that
actually looks medieval, try Bransle Montarde. Most of the period
illustrations I've seen have people dancing in small circles, or
short lines; the pictures tend to suggest a "light" dance style, but
that's a rather subjective interpretation. (Note that I don't consider
StW especially "light" -- it's fast, but most people use a relatively
heavy and flat step for it.) The Bransles are about the closest I
can think of to that form, and Montarde possibly the closest of all.

Question for those with more art knowledge than I: are there any
extant illustrations of longways medieval dance? I can't think of
any, but as I've said before, my art expertise is decidedly limited...

				-- Justin du Coeur
				   Simply incapable of resisting a
				     dance discussion

Not-so-Random Quote du Jour:

"Owing to my great respect for your prowess, I'm going to keep my arm."
		-- approximate quote of Kikuchi in the final bout, after
		   taking Wulfstan's sword arm
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