HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ovr@lk-hp-8.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Bike-only Households
Date: 24 Jan 1993 21:32:52 GMT
Organization: L{nsi-Uudenmaan Keisarillinen Polyteknillinen Koulu
Distribution: inet
Reply-To: ovr@snakemail.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: lk-hp-8.hut.fi

In article <1jrl9vINNc1f@uwm.edu> thelma@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Thelma Lubkin) writes:
>     Our most serious problem is parking: we won't take a bicycle unless
>  there's a reasonably safe place to park it, which means that we walk to
>  many events like concerts.

With a reasonably ugly and unfashionable bike theft shouldn't be a problem.
(Like a touring bike with a dull black frame.) Besides, u-locks are rare
around here so that >90% of all bikes are easier to steal than mine.

The problem for me with, say, concerts is clothing. I just don't fancy
riding in a dress suit.
--
Ott-Vill R______________________
ovr@snakemail.hut.fi
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: thomas@bitrot.in-berlin.de (Thomas Driemeyer)
Subject: Re: Punishment for the Driver!
Reply-To: thomas%trane@pacbell.com
Organization: Thomas Driemeyer, Berlin
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:49:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.160616.22861@seer.gentoo.com> bll@seer.gentoo.com (Brad Lanam) writes:
>    They're supposed to be an incentive to carpool.  I don't know why
>they won't raise the gasoline tax.  We have about the cheapest tax in
>the world (14 cents / litre; most of Europe is around 75 cents a litre;
>The Economist Jan 9th-15th '93).  Would do a whole lot more good.

I doubt it. They talk about an increase of the gas tax again here, but
people will simply pay it. A better way would be to create an alternative,
such as public transportation, and to take steps to reduce the need to
commute. As long as there is a shortage of cheap housing and a shortage
of jobs, and as long as there are bedroom communities, people will have
no choice but to pay.

I keep hearing a lot of good things about Clinton's and especially Gore's
attitude towards environmental issues, do you think Good Things are about
to happen? Will they get stopped by Congress? People here in Europe tend
to monitor closely what happens in the US; that's how catalytic converters
got subsidized and leaded regular gas got outlawed (at least in Germany).
Bush's refusal to outlaw CFCs and other substances damaged environmental
advances everywhere, not just in the US. Is this now changing?

Thomas

(reply-to thomas%trane@pacbell.com)
-- 

--
Thomas Driemeyer        thomas@bitrot.in-berlin.de        voice: +49 30 8924936
                   Schweidnitzer Str. 6, 1000 Berlin 31     fax: +49 30 8932764
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: etxorst@eos.ericsson.se (Torsten Lif)
Subject: Re: Recumbents
Reply-To: etxorst@eos.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Telecom AB
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:29:40 GMT

In article 27002@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com, harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes:
>etxorst@eos.ericsson.se (Torsten Lif) writes:
>: Either you waste energy
>: holding yourself up, or you bounce up and down on the saddle with each
>: stroke.
>
>No, you don't bounce up and down, and you don't waste energy.  You
>experience a varying pressure on the seat.  When the pedals are at T/BDC
>there is more vertical force on the seat than when the pedals are at 9/3
>o'clock.  Again, try drawing a free body diagram of the rider.

Your butt is firmer than mine. If the force pushing me towards the
saddle (gravity) is reduced (upwards pedal component), the soft tissues
in my perineum and the (slight) springyness of my saddle induce an
upwards movement of my body. Not a lot but noticeable. This variation
in seat pressure can be QUITE painful if you're already suffering form
a tender backside (like after a week of touring) or if you've let your
callouses deteriorate by riding a recumbent. :-/

>Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com

---
 Torsten Lif                          |   Upright bicycles are
 Ericsson Telecom AB, EO/ETX/TX/AD    |   a pain in the ass!
 S-126 25  STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN          |   
 Tel: +46 8 719 4881                  |   Be comfortable - ride a recumbent.
From: jtyl@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BJ)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Cycling at High(ish) Altitudes
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:49:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1993Jan23.022449.1563@netcom.com>, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes...
>In article <C19xBx.CBD@acsu.buffalo.edu> jtyl@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BJ) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan22.195445.21940@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM>, jdm@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Jim Moore) writes...

>>I do agree about the the speed of acclimitization for people with
>>good aerobic fitness.  My wife and I ventured to Summit County in
>>Colorado to do some mountain biking last summer.  The first day on
>>the trail was pure hell.  We couldn't do anything!  By the third
>>day we seemed to have adjusted quite well.  We just had to use
>>just a little more self control in pacing ourselves.  By the fifth
>>day, we were charging up and down passes like they were at sea level.
>>(well, almost like they were at sea level).
> 
>Please don't spread these rumors. If you are doing well by the end of the
>week it is because you have adjusted your riding style, not your fitness
>at altitude.

No rumors were intended nor spread.  In my original post, I merely stated
that we adapted to riding at altitude by the end of the week and that the
altitude did not pose a problem for us by the end of the week.   I also
stated that we did it by using more self control and in learning to pace
ourselves.  Nowhere did I mention nor did I presume that our fitness level
was substantially increased in the span of a week.

BTW: There is an interesting article in a recent issue of Outside (or maybe
Bicycling or Mtn Bike Action) about exercising at altitude for flatlanders.
Those who are interested should check it out. 

+------------------------------------------------------------+
|               O               /^^*  *  O  ^^\              | 
|              /\,            /^    *   <|<   *^\            |
|             -\ -       /^^^^ /^^\    / \\  *   ^^\         |
|              /(*)  /^^^   /^^    ^  * \//    /^^\ ^^^\     |
|  \___Q    (*) /^^^^   /^^^   BJ Lau     \\   *   ^^\  ^\   |
|  /\ /\    ^^^ ^       jtyl@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu     ^   ^^\|
+------------------------------------------------------------+
From: zebee@wattle.itd.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Taxes as disincentive
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:30:03 GMT
Organization: The University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: wattle.itd.adelaide.edu.au

thomas@bitrot.in-berlin.de (Thomas Driemeyer) writes:

>In article <1993Jan22.160616.22861@seer.gentoo.com> bll@seer.gentoo.com (Brad Lanam) writes:
>>    They're supposed to be an incentive to carpool.  I don't know why
>>they won't raise the gasoline tax.  We have about the cheapest tax in
>>the world (14 cents / litre; most of Europe is around 75 cents a litre;
>>The Economist Jan 9th-15th '93).  Would do a whole lot more good.

>I doubt it. They talk about an increase of the gas tax again here, but
>people will simply pay it. A better way would be to create an alternative,
>such as public transportation, and to take steps to reduce the need to
>commute. As long as there is a shortage of cheap housing and a shortage
>of jobs, and as long as there are bedroom communities, people will have
>no choice but to pay.

The only way to make it work is to increase the alternatives (public
transport, bike routes, secure bike parking, incresed motorcycle
parking), while making the car less attractive by increasing the cost.

The simple way to increase the cost is not petrol tax, but make parking
costs prohibitive.  IF it costs $40 per day to park in the city....

OF course, the fewer cars on the road, the less employment for oil
company employess, service station pump jockeys, mechanics,
panel-beaters, car salesmen, road-repairers....

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Zebee Johnstone  DoD #605   | You don't own an Italian motorcycle 
     Adelaide City Council       |  - you merely have the privilege 
    zebee@itd.adelaide.edu.au    |    of paying its bills.... 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: henniss@csli.stanford.edu (Kathryn Henniss)
Subject: Info in Wetlands Century? (2/14/93)
Organization: CSLI, Stanford University
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:56:25 GMT

Could someone who knows mail (or post) information about
who to contact (and by what date) regarding the Wetlands
Century in the Chico/Colusa/Butte Cty. area?

Thanks in advance,
Kathryn
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: brockr@muvaxa.rferl.org (Train, Learn, Climb, Ride)
Subject: Phone/Fax number for Colorado Cyclist
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Radio Free Europe
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:59:00 GMT

  Hi all,

  I've been told that Colorado Cyclist in Colo. Springs has moved
their location and, subsequently, their phone/fax numbers.  Can someone
please get me these numbers so I can update my contact numbers?  Thanks in
advance.
From: leifr@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Leif Running)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: ATTN Commuter's - do you feel like a piece of fiction ?
Summary: bikes and skirts
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:03:46 GMT

In article <wilde-250193223947@sunset.cs.colorado.edu>, wilde@cs.colorado.edu (Nick Wilde) writes:
> 
> Specialized - bringing out a "Milano" model, which features 7 speeds, 
> a "sloping top tube to provide increased clearance for skirts
> and baggy trousers" (now, how many of you ladies cycle to work
> in a skirt ?)
> 
Go over to Europe and you will see lots of women cycling in
skirts.  Old women and young women, in long skirts and short skirts.

-- Leif Running, Tektronix, Beaverton Oregon USA
From: m_thiba@pavo.concordia.ca (MICHAEL)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: "Australia's Helmet-Mandatory Legislation" it's me again
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:52:00 GMT
Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

A re-post of an article to .soc:
A friend of mine is interested in the hard numbers on changes in
bicycle ridership in Australia subsequent to the passing of helmet-
mandatory legislation in the last few years.  She's preparing an
article to address a proposed change in the Quebec codes which would
require bicycle helmets on all cyclists.  Much appreciated would be
the numbers and their source(s); she's a very serious person.
Thanks very much(,) in advance.
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||\||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Language hobbles the brain.
                                                       Michael Thibault
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Drivers and Bikers
From: royce@vxd.ug.eds.com (Royce D. Myers EDS/Unigraphics)
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:04:50 GMT
Organization: EDS Unigraphics, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: michael

In article <C19r6M.E46@news.rich.bnr.ca>, rob@bnr.ca (Robert Perkins) writes:
>  Face it, U.S. citizens are lazy-ass drivers who confuse
> their cars with their penises.
> 
I know a couple of cyclists who could be comparably confused.

It helps explain why "oversized tubing" is so popular.

-- 
Royce Myers	royce@ug.eds.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: border@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Ryan A. Border)
Subject: Re: Riding on melting tar.
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:41:50 GMT

jrdodd@waikato.ac.nz writes:

>Quite a few of the tarseal roads around here are now starting to melt in the
>sun,  including some of the better cycling routes around here.  You all know
>the feeling,  when you start hearing your tyres pulling up the tar etc.

This reminds me of what has to be one of the worst cycling experiences I've 
ever had on a bicycle.  I had just completed the assembly of my new tandem.  
We had taken it on a 10mi "debug" ride and gotten everything working just
right (and sort of gotten a feel for tandem riding) and had decided
to go on our first, ~60mi, big ride.  

We started out early in the morning, and had a really good ride for the
first 40mi or so.  I had overestimated the 'tandem advantage' and we were
both starting to get pretty tired when we turned the final leg for
home at about noon (This was July in central Illinois).  The temperature
rose to about 95 degrees, the humidity climbed, and the road started to
melt.  My wife/stoker started to overheat and bonk.  We were out of water.

It took quite a while to realize that our constant decrease in speed was due
to more than just a lack of energy- our tires had started to pick up the tar 
and gravel.  As we rode further towards home the road continued to deteriorate.
Eventually, we were stopping every 1/4 mile or so to scrape the (1/4 inch of) 
tar off the tires.  I had tar all over my rims, brakes, and brand new custom 
painted frame.  Once when stopping (remember, we were very unexperienced tandem 
riders), I accidently let the bike fall over (tar on the handlebars) with my
wife still on the back (tar on, and seeping through, the back of her shorts).
At about that point she started to cry "Why did you drop me in the hot tar?!".
I was just looking for something to kick, I was so mad about the whole 
situation.

Looking back on it now, it's easy to laugh about the whole thing.  We must 
have been quite a site in the middle of the Corn Fields covered with tar and 
dirt... scraping tar off our bike tires with a stick.  We ended up cutting 
over to a concrete road and limping back into town.  It's actually amazing 
that we didn't sell the bike after that ride (every once in a while I'll still 
find a bit of tar in a nook or cranny).  I'll always have a special loathing 
for melting chip'n'seal roads though.

>Jonathan Dodd,

Oh yeah, here's a tip:  Vaseline petroleum jelly works pretty well for getting
road tar off your bike.
_______________________________________________________________________________
* Ryan A. Border               border@nas.nasa.gov,   border@craywr.cray.com  *
* Cray Research Inc., On Site Applications Analyst 415-604-4633  o__ o__      *
* Numerical Aerodynamic Simulator, NASA Ames Research Center    _.>/-.>/'_    *
* Never trust someone who can count to 1023 on their fingers.  ( ) \---\(*)...*
===============================================================================
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.misc:2199 rec.bicycles.soc:1576
From: whalen@starch.enet.dec.com (Rich Whalen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Martha's Vineyard?
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:14:51 GMT
Reply-To: whalen@starch.enet.dec.com (Rich Whalen)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Shrewsbury, MA


I did a car->bike->ferry->bike weekend camping trip to MV about a year and a 
half ago.  The riding was quite easy, even though we were carrying gear,
except for the part crossing the bridge over the Cape-Cod canal.  The island
has bike paths as well as roads, and where there are bike paths you'll find
the motorists yelling at you to use them instead of the roads.  My group
tended to avoid the bike paths because the pace on them was quite a bit
slower
and they offered barely enough room for two bikes to pass.

------------------------------------------------------
Rich Whalen

You don't know where these bits have been!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: sml@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (Steven Law)
Subject: Re: A Piece of History
Organization: Australian Artificial Intelligence Institute
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:13:26 GMT

jrdodd@waikato.ac.nz writes:

>This reminds me of a book I've got called "Around the World on a Wheel",
>about and english journalist and two mates who basically "hop on their Rovers
>and head for Dover" - in 1895!

Actually it reminds me more of a story about Burston and Stokes, a couple
of Australians who rode around the world on penny farthings circa 1889.
They wrote a book which I know of a couple of copies in the hands of some
Melbourne cycling history buffs.
A re-enactment of sorts was held for the centenary with about twenty riders
on pennies and other vintage bikes riding from Melbourne to Sydney, the
first leg of B&S's journey. I rode the first day with them, and we were
all amazed at the distances theses guys were covering on rough roads.
The re-enactment followed the original route as much as possible and
each evening, an excerpt was read from their journal.

A farily complete history of Austrlian cycling can be found in the excellent
book by Jim Fitzpatrick "The Bicycle and the Bush".

>Jonathan Dodd,
>University of Waikato.
>The views expressed here are everybody's and I speak for everyone in the
>southern hemisphere.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com (bob geer)
Subject: Re: Cycling at High(ish) Altitudes
Reply-To: bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:25:02 GMT

ag544@yfn.ysu.edu (Erl R. Johnston) writes:
>Has anyone out there much experience of cycling at high altitudes
>for extended periods of time - up to a week of serious exertion.

It depends on what the altitude change is.  I live at 5000' & ski,
ride, & ride at up to 11,000' with no problems.  Many individuals who
live sub-1000' visit Utah to ski at altitudes from 7000' to 11,000'
with no problem beyond being a little short of breath from hard
exertion, provided they have some level of good fitness.  Problems may
be worse for sedentary individuals.

There are a few visitors who do suffer from bloody noses, dizziness,
disorientation, extreme shortness of breath, fainting, but I think
this is rare.  A day or two at a moderated pace helps one acclimatize
& usually gets rid of the worst symptoms & enables one to sustain a
moderate level of exertion.  It may take 3 weeks or more to achieve
the ability to tolerate sustained high exertion, & longer yet to
become fully acclimatized for the highest levels of competition.

-- 
<> Bob `Bear' Geer <>   bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com     (this *should* work)   <>
<>     cola-zombie <>   speaking only for myself, one of my many tricks   <>
<> Salt Lake City, <>    "We must strive to be more than we are, Lal."    <>
<>          Ootah  <>           -- Cmdr. Data, learning schmaltz          <>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: woycke@smiley.mitre.org (Daniel Woycke)
Subject: Re: Taxes as disincentive
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:20:59 GMT

In article <zebee.728173803@wattle.itd.adelaide.edu.au> zebee@wattle.itd.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone) writes:
>
>The only way to make it work is to increase the alternatives (public
>transport, bike routes, secure bike parking, incresed motorcycle
>parking), while making the car less attractive by increasing the cost.
>
>The simple way to increase the cost is not petrol tax, but make parking
>costs prohibitive.  IF it costs $40 per day to park in the city....
>
>OF course, the fewer cars on the road, the less employment for oil
>company employess, service station pump jockeys, mechanics,
>panel-beaters, car salesmen, road-repairers....
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Zebee Johnstone  DoD #605   | You don't own an Italian motorcycle 
>     Adelaide City Council       |  - you merely have the privilege 
>    zebee@itd.adelaide.edu.au    |    of paying its bills.... 

Part of the problem is not that parking costs should be increased in
the cities.  The parking costs in Washington, DC are in my mind
prohibitive.  But, I, like most of the other people I know live and
work in the suburbs.  Edge cities are a fact of life.
Inadequate mass transit is just one problem.  The
main problem is that employers and neighborhoods fear parking
problems.  The county I live in (Fairfax, VA) has a minimum number of
parking spaces requirement for new office buildings.  Of course this
is going to encourage car commuters.  Make public transportation
feasible, and raise the money with a gas tax.  (Hell, there was such
an uproar about carpool lanes around here that they got taken out.)

Thank You,

Daniel W. Woycke             |"I went out drinking with Thomas 
Information Engineer (c) 1992|Paine..." -- Billy Bragg
The MITRE Corporation	     |"But I am still thirsty..."
7525 Colshire Drive (MS Z213)|-- Arrested Development
McLean, VA   22102           |These opinions are mine and are not
woycke@smiley.mitre.org      |and will not be held by anyone else.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: wilde@cs.colorado.edu (Nick Wilde)
Subject: Re: ATTN Commuter's - do you feel like a piece of fiction ?
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.misc
Organization: Just enough to get by...
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:22:39 GMT

In article <1k2oai$ht1@agate.berkeley.edu>, tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom
Holub) wrote:
> 
> In article <wilde-250193223947@sunset.cs.colorado.edu> wilde@cs.colorado.edu (Nick Wilde) writes:
> )Did you know all of us bicycle commuters in the U.S. don't exist,
> )at least according to one executive of a major bicycle manufacturer?
> )
> )In an article in the Wall Street Journal today (1/25), the US marketing
> )director of Bridgestone Bicycle, Grant Peterson, is quoted as
> )calling the US bicycle commuter "fictional". According the WSJ, Mr
> )Peterson attributes this to "long distances, cheap gasoline, few bike
> )lanes, and fewer bike lockers or showers at work discouraging bicycle
> )commuting."
> )
> )Discouraging it, yes, but eradicating it altogther ? Judging from 
> )some of the posts around here, I'd hardly think so. I know I don't
> )feel quite non-existant, yet :) Maybe a few of us should write to
> )Mr Peterson, to let him know we exist ?
> 
> Grant Petersen is an avid Bay Area cyclist who wrote a series of books
> called "Roads to Ride" which are great descriptions of Bay Area roads
> with terrain maps; the best books I've ever read for suggesting where to
> ride.  He's never had a car, so I'm sure he knows at least one
> bicycle commuter.  I'd take his statements with a grain of salt; after
> all, it's certainly true that there aren't *enough* bicycle commuters
> out there.
>  -Tom

Interesting. Thanks for setting me straight, Tom. It seemed hardly
believable that an executive with a major bike company could be
that out of touch with reality :).

Do you, or any other's reading this, know this individual personally ?
I'd be interested to hear his reactions to the WSJ quote - what he
really said vs. what the WSJ made it out to be.

-Nick
From: phuar@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr T Moxey)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Suspension Question
Date: 22 Jan 1993 10:21:25 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: caraway.csv.warwick.ac.uk


Handlebar suspension such as proflex stems, are ok, certainly cheaper and need
less maintainence, but are not as good. If a bike with shox hits and obstacle,
then the energy goes into moving the forks...i.e. the bike can ride over a small
log, and the frame will not move at all. If the stem bike goes over the log, then
the frame will move, i.e. the cranks will rise and then fall, so the rider's
hands will stay at more or less the same height in both cases, but his body will
move with the stem. The shox tend to allow easier control in rougher terrain, but
are about 10 times the cost. 
tim