HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kgnome@cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane)
Subject: BIG Naval Ships... Why not!?
Summary: Lets make a real destroyer! 
Keywords: Naval Ships, Realistic, BIG
Organization: Computer Science, Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 08:18:59 GMT

Does anyone have any good arguments as to why it is impossible to design
a modern day (or even WWII vintage) naval vessel.  I mean something big
enough to scare the bejebbers out of an Overlord-class dropship.
16-inch naval guns and all (hmmm.... lots of NACs, Arrow IVs, Naval
Energy Guns, Naval Missiles and all that).  I think reducing the range
of the direct fire weapons in the same way that aerotech weapons are
reduced into battletech terms would make the naval guns acceptable as
REAL cannons.  A bunch of Anti-Missile-Systems could simulate Phalanx
like defence guns.  Arrow IV would be SSMs and SAMs.  The big naval
missiles would be cruise missiles and ICBMs.  Flight decks could be
added to make carriers (assign tonnage for aircraft/aerospace craft).
Vessels this big could replace dropships for carrying large bulky things
around so long as no rush exists.  A 10,000 ton mech carrying ocean
vessel is definately plausible for lugging mech's between continents in
peacetime (dropships being so rare and all... needed at the fronts you
know).  These vessels would be comparable in size to space based
warships but would cost far less.  Then again, who's going to use their
own battleship to do a Turtle Bay manuever on their own planet?  These
vessels would obviously be planet bound but they would make effective
weapon's platforms.  And imagine how nervous a successful invader would
feel knowing that somewhere out in the oceans of his newly conquered
world are hiding a dozen or so Typhoon-class submarine equivalents.  An
invading commander would not have the time or resources to conduct an
effective search for them and a force like that would be capable of
pulling off a devastating surprise attack (as would real submarines).
And a Nimitz like carrier with 100 convential fighters would provide a
very strong air support for a defender (I wouldn't bring my Union-class
drop ship anywhere near it!).

I don't think large naval craft would be very common since most planets
are controled by a single government (no on-planet rivalries to spur the
creation of navies) but they would make nice trump cards to make an
invader's life ever so much more interesting. ;)

Suggestions?  Ideas?

Gene Marcil

I'm a man with a mission.
I just wish I knew what it was.

Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: foregone@stein.u.washington.edu (Carl Chavez)
Subject: Re: [BTECH] Can Vehicles Charge Mechs Under New FASA Rules?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:37:58 GMT

In article <BzJKut.36q@newsflash.concordia.ca> kgnome@cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane) writes:
>
>	Oh yeah.... there goes those pseky vehicles! Sorry :-)
>
>> Does this mean that vehicles cannot charge Mechs under this new rule?
>
>	It means that vehicles have to all (ALL) move before 'Mechs
>according to turn sequence. So in essence, yes... vehicles cannot charge
>anymore!
>

Great...there goes the Amputator design; one of the few non-kamikaze
anti-Mech designs!



Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: lunatic@netcom.com (Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex)
Subject: Re: BIG Naval Ships... Why not!?
Organization: Netcom; Renegade User
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 22:36:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec26.142845.7065@gw.wmich.edu> x90vanderkol@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>In article <Bzuxro.F9u@newsflash.concordia.ca>, kgnome@cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane) writes:
>> Does anyone have any good arguments as to why it is impossible to design
>> a modern day (or even WWII vintage) naval vessel.  I mean something big
>> enough to scare the bejebbers out of an Overlord-class dropship.
>> 16-inch naval guns and all (hmmm.... lots of NACs, Arrow IVs, Naval
>> Energy Guns, Naval Missiles and all that).
[Good ideas for converting space naval weapons to ocean naval weapons
 deleted]
>
>	With all this talk about Naval ship has peaked my interest, when is
>BATTLESPACE comming out? Will it also have design rules for dropships and
>Combat Jumpships? 
 
    ___
     |hese two topics go together well.
    ___
     |he reason it's impractical, right now, to design ocean naval
 vessels larger than 300 tons is because engines don't exist to power
 them.  With only a suspension factor of 30, 215 tons is the largest
 ocean naval vessel you can make that moves at a crusing speed of even
 _2_.  Everything from 216-300 tons has a max speed of _1_.  Since this
 isn't open space, these ships can't build up any velocity, like slow
 dropships can, too.

    \/\/here BattleSpace comes in is that it WILL have rules to design
 space naval ships.  This, hopefully, will provide the rules for the
 larger engine sizes needed for large ocean naval vessels.  I haven't
 seen any indication that FASA has thought of this, as well, so there
 probably won't be anything mentioned in BattleSpace about ocean naval
 vessels.  Wouldn't it be funny to see the looks on people's faces,
 though, if when they opened up BattleSpace they found rules for ocean
 naval vessels, as well?  ("I knew this game was about warship combat,
 but I didn't know it included THOSE kinds of warships!" :)

    |\|o shipping date has been announced for BattleSpace, yet.

-- 
   _______________________________________________________
  /         -= Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex     (:      /
 /  lunatic@netcom.com  GEnie: LUNATIC  CI$: 76170,672  /
/______________________________________________________/
From: st1pn@jane.uh.edu (R@)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: A few questions...
Date: 23 Dec 1992 21:51 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
Summary: Kerensky would be spinning in his grave....:)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

parnell_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes...

>N.B. The following situations occure if you say all dammage is done 
>     simultaneously.	
> 
>	1)Being charged into a clif face _backwards_
[nice illustration deleted for security reasons]

I've wondered about this before, though, fortunately, none of us ever tried
it out.  At a guess, you could figure it being as <your tonnage/10> times the
number of hexes you *try* to move <being 1> versus the cliff face.  Said cliff
face being a bit more resistant to damage than a mech, you could say the damage
was sort of, er, well, *reflected* back on your rear armor, as you're not going
to move that cliff very far, even with an Atlas.  Then, I suppose you'd figure
even more damage by charging--the Locust is now in the hex you "vacated", which
you really didn't, so now you do a one-hex charge back on *him*....  :)

>	2) Multiple charges/Death From Aboves on the same mech...
>	   e.g. A Locust and a Stinger of his double team my Atlas
>		in one turn from two different directions...
>		how do you work out what hapens and where all units end up?
>	    __  
>	 __/Lo\__	Me= The Atlas
>	/  \__/  \	Lo= The Locust
>	\__/Me\__/	St= The Stinger
>	/St\__/  \
>	\__/  \__/
>	   \__/	

[I'll leave out the first obvious question, that being "What were you two
*drinking*??"  Cheer!]  Well, okay now, after all the damage is said and
done, the only obvious place to move would be to the hex SE of the Atlas,
though ignoring basic laws of physics is not something unknown to 'tech.:)
Of course, since both the Stinger and the Locust now occupy the same hex,
technically, maybe they do one-hex charges on each other?  Or is it that
friendly units can occupy the same hex for part of a round?  Something like
that.  Whatever.  This is all very weird.:)

Yes yes, long followup, but some things should remain unasked!  [One idea that
should be unasked at least as much being "The Griffin has a hand-held PPC, 
according to 3025, right?  So if I give it a hand crit, does it drop it?  If
it does, can I pick it up?  If I can, can I use it?"]  The moral, of course,
being, "DON'T BLOODY ASK!":)

>Paul
>	Ciao, May The Dice Be With You
>/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\
>|       We gaurantee fast service, No matter how long it takes...             |
>|                                  EMail:PARNELL_P@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz         |
>\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/


R@:  "Funny, just as you ask that, you get a mysterious cockpit crit...."
--
"I simply ignored an axiom."
--Albert Einstein, on relativity
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: aneubach@risc.uni-linz.ac.at (Andreas Neubacher)
Subject: What is MUSE?
Organization: RISC, J.K. University of Linz, Austria
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:28:49 GMT

Sorry to bother you with this question, but I couldn't find a FAQ, so I
thought I'd just post this:
			What is MUSE?

From the context of several messages I saw it seems to be some MUD for
playing BattleTech. Is this true, and if yes, where are servers to be found?
	I've been playing the old FASA BattleTech (the original edition, I
think - the one with the Warhammer on the cover), Amiga Mechforce, tried out
Virtuality System's "Heavy Metal" simulator in London, and as I can't afford
a quick trip to California for the BattleTech simulator I'd just love to
play BT online somewhere.

Andreas.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andreas NEUBACHER, Research Institute for Symbolic Computation, Johannes Kepler
University, 4040 Linz, Austria. aneubach@risc.uni-linz.ac.at !Packed signature!
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: probe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy)
Subject: Re: high-speed hovertanks REDUX!
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 05:49:00 GMT

   What this all seems to be leading to, with the VR top-mounted tanks and
all, seem to be a line of Fusion-vehicles of some sort...

   New types of vehicles for Battletech could be:

   1:VR controlled rapid-assist tanks,
   2:Votoms (Someone mentioned these), level one small mecha...
   3:Mechs with track-wheels instead of legs? Faster, shorter, same
abilities?
   4:'Tall' Vehicles of some sort?

   Oh, I don't know... It just seems to me that in a 1000 years we'd
probably have some newer vehicles than just Battlemechs...

                                                
-- 
      /| ________________   |probe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu|  Lord of the Flies 
O|===|* >________________>  |probe@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu|  1st MPC Division
      \|                    | nandy@scivax.stsci.edu |  Colony Mechworks
  Velox - Durus - Infestus  |  nandy@fos.stsci.edu   |  Colony World Myops
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: ajross@husc10.harvard.edu (Andrew Ross)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Singing with the Luthien Boys Choir :)
Date: 24 Dec 92 01:25:08 GMT

taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha) writes:


> OK, it's Christmas time and I'd thought to end my posting with a little tune,
>I thought up with some of my friends. Please note that this is the Kuritan
>version and may offend you others, as if I cared! :)

> The Twelve Days of Christmas (as sung by the Luthien Boys' Choir)
>  (Sung to the traditional tune of....you guess what it is :)

> [first 11 verses deleted]
>
> On the twelveth day of Christmas the Kanrei gave to me,
>  twelve Chargers charging,
>  eleven Locusts running,
>  ten Wasps a' leaping,
>  nine Victors skidding,
>  eight Jumpship jumping,
>  seven Dropships droping,
>  six Eagles flying,
>  five Madcat-Ds,
>  four Jagermechs,
>  three Stinger LAMs,
>  two Crossbow meks and an Atlas with a C-3.

> That's it, sorry for the long post...NOT!:) See you next year people........

>This has been...            : "I have never listened to anyone who criticized
> Tony Taia                  :my taste in space travel, sideshows or gorillas.
>  TAIA_A@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz :When this occurs, I pack up my dinosaurs and leave
>My ideas are mine alone, ok?:leave the room." - Ray Bradbury 1980. Age 60.

100 C-Bills to the first person to come up with the correct total tonnage
of the unit listed above.

Andy Ross
ajross@husc.harvard.edu
From: probe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Which weapon is best? (Was: Re: btech lrm)
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:50:40 GMT
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore

In article <1h2p4eEINN79o@uni-erlangen.de> kabreuer@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Klaus Breuer) writes:
>>> I nominate the disruptor as the Klingon weapon of choce....
>> I nominate the Genessis device. It's Ecologically friednlly!
>I nominate the Ringworld Laser from Larry Niven.
>Stops _every_ clanship about, can vapourize a whole fleet :)
I nominate the Reflex Cannon from Robotech.... vaporize half a continent!
(That's a whole lot of mecha!)


-- 
      /| ________________   |probe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu|  Lord of the Flies 
O|===|* >________________>  |probe@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu|  1st MPC Division
      \|                    | nandy@scivax.stsci.edu |  Colony Mechworks
  Velox - Durus - Infestus  |  nandy@fos.stsci.edu   |  Colony World Myops
From: RiTz@babbage (Richard Taillon)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Presenting the FAS-2RZ Flash. _VERY_ fast mech (3025)
Date: 2 Jan 93 20:43:36 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


Stephane I. Matis says:
>         Ok, I have callculated $ 1,671,200 C-Bills... which means
> that
>         I (me that is:) or everyone else uses the formulas
> different.
> 
>         I guess I'll have to entertain the tought that you guys are
>         wrong :) Anmyways, the 'mech is 780 Combat value at 2.14
> Eff.
>         BTW, my cost doesn't include a single hand actuator.

Wrong ? Klaud's program wrong !??! Funny we checked out his cost
(With mechdesign's view bill) and it was right on the money (so to 
speak!)  Guess you must have a different supplier for parts ? ;)
 
RiTz
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: Citizen Lemming <ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu>
Subject: Re: Mekton: Mekton Mecha
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 03:36:28 GMT

>>>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 92 11:54:59 EST, thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul
>>>>> Williams [SysOp]) said:

Paul>    Are there any other Mekton mecha jocks out there who have ,eks to
Paul> post, or are my two the only one's forthcoming?  :)

Well, I'm working on fixing up the MTS' samples, but it's a slow process
with everything else I'm doing. They'll get posted when I'm done, along
with any others I come up with.

--Rat                               PGP Public Key Block available upon request
||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat          ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
It's hard to bargle nawdle zouss/With all these marbles in my mouth
                                     --`Weird Al' Yankovic, Smells Like Nirvana
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: kgnome@cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane)
Subject: Re: BTECH: Battleforce with Clan tech
Organization: Computer Science, Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 19:51:26 GMT


From: Paul James <prj91@ecs.soton.ac.uk>

> I saw the recent posting mentioning Battleforce and thought I'd tell
> poeple about something I have which is produced by MEchfroce UK. It
> is called Clan Force, and updates battleforce with 3050 tech. It also
> has rules for clan warships and all the 3055 clan aerospace fighters
> (but none of the mechs unfortunately, but you can work out these coz
> the costs for new technology are listed). It also intorduces the
> concept of 'resilience', i.e. mechs withg energy weapons or case last
> longer etc. If anyone is interested I can email more details, or if
> there is enough demand post.


BTW I have copy of Clan Force ... and it's excellent. Chris Hartford, of
upcoming BattleSpace fame, designed these rules with his pals at
Mechforce UK. Cool stuff.

	Just thought I'd let you guys know ... since this is sorta
	the thing that got Chris into the limelight. :)


+---------------------------------+   ___     ___       ___
| Stephane I. Matis               |  /   \_BATLLETECH  /\__\ Viva NeXT! 
| E-Mail : kgnome@cs.concordia.ca |  \___/   \___/     \/__/ NeXTSTEP 3.0!
| "It Just Works..." - Steve Jobs |      \___/   
+---------------------------------+       Wolfnet Operative & NeXThead
From: morrisa@cs.UAlberta.CA (ANDREW Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Design Ideas Mecha..
Date: 3 Jan 93 19:25:50 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada

nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu writes:

>Not sure if anyone thought of the following, most I had thought of a few yars
>ago, I don't have the latest in Battle Tech or MEcha lit, but I think the
>following will still be useful..

Not trying to slam, just my ideas on these...  My players had come up with all
of these at one time or another...

>Disposeble weapons: Namely weapons strpped on or attached to a MEch for a
>limited time.. They also can be used when a area that the weapon is attached to
>as a additional site for crits/hits..

Probably BIG time problems with targeting.  Damn weapons commming out of
allignment...

>Straped on Armor: In the same vein as applicae armor of total. Basically armor
>that is attached until it goes away.. Or acts as armor against weapons that the
>Mecha is not used to being proof against. Or as temporary armor to cover a area
>that for some reaosn can't be covered for now..

The only problem with this is when the armor is hit, it wouldn't just "go away"
 - problems with structural weight though...

>Drop mines for a Mecha.. Namely can be used to discourage someone following
>you.. Such as the old fashion Caltrops..

Could be done.  Messy though.  Easier if you use a vehicle.

>Popup mines. Namely they are mines designed to jump up and to fire a charge
>downwards, namely designed for MEcha with a "head".. basically to go for the
>cockpit..

Could be done.  Needs more details, but could be done.

>Armored Personnel Carrier Mecha.. Mecha designed to operate as a team.
>Three MEcha act as personnel carriers with a total complement of a Infantry
>Platoon. With one MEcha to act as a command Mecha and as heavy fire power..

Can you say cooked Infantry Platoon?  I knew you could.  The word for today
is HOT!

>Digger Tank: A tank designed to dig themselves literally in and pop up to
>attack..

Would be rather slow to "pop up".  Dirt doesn't move that quick.  Water
on the other hand...

>Anti-Air Mecha: Mecha will extrme long range weapons to be used against
>Air Craft/Lams...

Rifleman.  Or so 3025 says...

>Remote Piloted Vehicles: To act as recon..

There are robot pilot systems available (I believe - can't quite remember).
These would have a much longer range.

>Any other ideas can be posted here or emailed to the following person.
>Chief Researcher of Raven Design Works, New Alaska..

The only thing I could suggest is a posting on what time frame your 
working in.  This stuff may all be possible in 3050 - I have no idea - but 
not in 3025.

Then again I don't like changes to any of FASA's origional designs...
--
============================================================================
 "Life's a Bitch and then you fly..."     "Let's get dangerous!"  - D. Duck

      Andrew Morris (The Android)     E-Mail : morrisa@cs.ualberta.ca
From: RiTz@eckert (Richard Taillon)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: BTECH: Help with making maps
Date: 2 Jan 93 06:55:00 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


ewood@lonestar.utsa.edu      Eric S. Wood Says:
 
>     Me and couple of friends have started playing Battle Tech a
> couple of weeks ago. We are getting tired of using the same maps
> every time and I was wondering if anybody out thier has come up
> with a way to make maps. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
 
I am also looking for a way to make maps, preferably using
the PC, and being able to print them out on laser. Unfortunatly, I'm
still looking for that jewel...
 
                                                ___
  _______        __________        ___....-----'---`-----....___
 /____   )    _ /___  ____/  =========================================
   __ ) /    (_)   / /  ______      ___`---..._______...---'___
  / // /    __    / /  /__   /     (___)      _|_|_|_      (___)
 / / \ \   / /   / /    /  /__       \\____.-'_.---._`-.____//
/_/   \ \_/_/   /_/   /______/         `````.__`---'__.'''''
       \_/                                     `````
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei)
Subject: Re: BTECH: Help with making maps
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 02:49:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.203306.21954@netcom.com>, lunatic@netcom.com (Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex) writes:
> In article <1993Jan2.032456.14603@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> ewood@lonestar.utsa.edu (Eric S. Wood) writes:
> >We are getting tired of using the same maps every time and I was
> >wondering if anybody out thier has come up with a way to make maps.
> >Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
> 
>     ]-[ave you ever tried using Geo-Hex?

Eep!  Talk about overkill!

Several ways, from quickest/cheapest to most expensive/nicer:
- Print (or buy) a blank paper hex-map, and design your own terrain.
  If you want a reusable map, draw the actual map on a clear plastic
  overlay on top of the paper map, then erase the overlay when you're done.
- FASA sells several pre-generated "map packs", each one with several
  terrain maps you can use.  If you have CENTURION, you can also use those
  maps with BATTLETECH.
- Grok-Blox.  These are plastic "building blocks", designed to allow you to
  create your own terrain.  Rather expensive if you want lots of terrain,
  but a lot more customizable and cheaper than...
- Geo Hex.  As described by Mr. E'Sex above.  VERY nice looking, but also
  very expensive.
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			       Master of Science!
			      jester@ihlpm.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: lunatic@netcom.com (Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex)
Subject: Vehicle engine weights (Was: Re: MECH:HSR 300-S Hussar)
Organization: Netcom; Renegade User
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 20:21:25 GMT

In article <1i2e1fINN3no@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> jrob@ecst.csuchico.edu (Gillis the Humble) writes:
>BTW:  in the 2750 readout, aren't the engine weights of the vehicles to heavy?

    |\|o, they're correct.  Almost all of the vehicles in TR 2750 use
 fusion engines, which need 50% of their weight added in "shielding
 and transmission equipment."  The Von Luckner and Packrat vehicles in
 TR 3025 are actually missing the extra shielding/etc. and are actually
 incorrect (at least in the original, error-riddled copy that I have).
 

>(And now that you can have XL's in vehicles, I see major improvements,
>besides the gained space from the errors in the engine weights.)


    |\|ope, as I said, no errors.  XL engines still need the extra
 shielding/etc. too.

-- 
   _______________________________________________________
  /         -= Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex     (:      /
 /  lunatic@netcom.com  GEnie: LUNATIC  CI$: 76170,672  /
/______________________________________________________/
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha