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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:39:18 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2892
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2892

                          Thursday, August 27, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 699

                            Braille N Speak Compl
                                 Jaws Macros
                          Re: Nfb Bbs Censorship??
                            Re: braille literacy
                       Re: protection and enforcement
                  Re: Voice Output on PC tied to MainFrame
                              Re: Screen Reader
                              Re: Screen Reader
                                  Re: b n s
                            Re: TALKING software


                                ******


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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
                              (203) 337-1518



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Subject: Braille N Speak Compl
From: Steve.Richards@f101.n277.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Richards)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:277/101 - House Of Pancakes, Morgantown WV


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message 08-07-92 (17:55) From: KEITH BUCHER To: CHUCK HALLENBECK
KB>Chuck, I think, what you're getting is 20 characters per second on
KB>each side of the page, thus 40 CPI which include both sides of the
KB>page.  Nearly like two rB-20s.

Hi Keith, I included a snippet there so you'd know the gist of the
previous message.  Like you, I have great interest in the Juliet, and I
also agree that going by Enabling Technology's track record in braille
embossers the Juliet ought to be a pretty reliable machine.  However, I
can't help wondering about a few things.  The RB20, which has three
solenoids as opposed to the RB40's nine also has about one-third the
MTBF of the RB40 for its emboss head.  With four solenoids per side, how
will the Juliet compare in its emboss head MTBF?  And, of course, there
are two heads to be replaced.  I assume that the four per side are for
the tighter graphics you mentioned, otherwise why not incorporate the
Romeo's triad design?  There I'm not finding fault, just trying to
account for the different configuration.  Indeed I'm not finding fault
anywhere, just wondering about some things.  For instance, I surely do
wonder how they managed more or less the same price for the Juliet as
for the Romeo RB40, and whether they had to scrimp and cut corners to do
that.  How does the quality of the internal parts for the Juliet compare
to the RB40's?  I wonder, too, what will become of the RB40; can it hope
to compete at its current price, not being interpoint?  Naturally
Enabling has no incentive for competition between two of its own
products, so will the RB40 eventually be dropped?  If that occurs, will
we have gained something in the existence of the Juliet, or will we have
lost something in the demise of a proven braille embosser?
Steve R.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!
-------------------------

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!277!101!Steve.Richards
Internet: Steve.Richards@f101.n277.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Jaws Macros
From: Steve.Richards@f101.n277.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Richards)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:277/101 - House Of Pancakes, Morgantown WV


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message 08-08-92 (10:20) From: WALTER SIREN To: RICK ALFARO
WS>     Rick, in jaws 1, the macro editor was different than it is in jaws 2.
WS>However, I don't understand what they are saying about needing a macro edito
WS>in jaws 2.  It is easy enough to go into the macro menu and edit the macro.
WS>Of course you do have to go into the config file to do it.  If I remember
WS>right, in jaws 1 you could edit them without being in the config file.

The last time I tried Jaws using the macro menu was the only way to
modify a macro config file.  There was no way to create a new macro
config file, using an existing one as a subset except to use the macro
menu and adding the new ones step by step.  Two configurations couldn't
be merged or concatenated.  Nor could Jaws save the macro files to
ASCII, allowing editing in a word processor as most programs
incorporating macros are able to do.  Also the macros couldn't be
created by performing them and having the steps recorded, often the
simplest way to create macros.  I found that last deficiency doubly
annoying since I couldn't edit the macros in ASCII.
Steve R.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Anybody for a game of tagline?
-------------------------

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!277!101!Steve.Richards
Internet: Steve.Richards@f101.n277.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Nfb Bbs Censorship??
From: Steve.Richards@f101.n277.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Richards)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:277/101 - House Of Pancakes, Morgantown WV


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Mike, I'm not going to quote any of the message that prompted me to
send this message, for I am sincerely looking for information and not
seeking to fan the flames of controversy.  There have been in several
messages allusions to the expulsion of affiliates from NFB, which I
think everyone would agree is a grave action to take.  Can you tell me
how many affiliates have been expelled during NFB's history and the
stated reasons for the expulsions?  I should also like to hear from
anyone who knows of similar expulsions from ACB and the reasons for
same.  If you would prefer not to reply to my query here I'd be happy to
hear from you via the post office.  My address is:
Steve Richards
P. O. Box 1645
Morgantown, WV  26507

I am genuinely trying to understand both organizations and to decide
which, if either, should have my allegiance.  I would like to know what
would prompt any organization to expell entire affiliates, especially
any organization which refers to itself as "like a family".  A family
does not readily oust its own members.
Steve R.

 * SLMR 2.1a * A forgotten argument is one where both sides win.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!277!101!Steve.Richards
Internet: Steve.Richards@f101.n277.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: braille literacy
From: dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Jude DaShiell)

Base line literacy reading rate in braille is 100 words per minute.
Base line literacy writing rate in braille is 30 words per
minute with perkins and 20 words per minute with slate and stylus.
These are the standards that Arkansas Enterprises for the blind uses.
Good reading rate for braille is 150 words per minute or above.

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>




------



Subject: Re: protection and enforcement
From: dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Jude DaShiell)

Legal protection is in its effectiveness directly proportional to
the enforcement legislation has in the community.  Laws will have
marginal enforcement in the community for so long as attitudes in
the community are opposed to the enforcement.  This fact makes a
lie of a government of law and proves that ultimately all
government is by people.  When I think about this in connection
with the A.D.A. I'm not surprised or optimistic.  When I think of
this in context of Watergate then I am surprised.

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>




------



Subject: Re: Voice Output on PC tied to MainFrame
From: person@plains.nodak.edu (Brett Person)
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


I would think that any screen reader that could handle 3270 would
work. The IBM Screen Reader has a 3270 script that works quite well
when I've needed to use it ouver a coax.

I'm sure there are others, too.
Hope this helps

--
Brett Person
Guest Account
North Dakota State University
person@plains.nodak.edu || person@plains.bitnet




------



Subject: Re: Screen Reader
From: person@plains.nodak.edu (Brett Person)
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


In article <23624@handicap.news> David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org writes:
>Index Number: 23624
>
>My hope is that IBM will come up with a product for OS2 that is so
>easy to use, so user friendly, and provides such complete access to
>OS2 and Windows that we will truly feel that the speech software
>has become transparent to our use of a computer.  Unfortunantly,
>their present attempt comes no where close to doing any of the
>above, and is one of the most difficult speech software products I
>have used with MS DOS.

Huh?  I like it fine, but then again, I'm A PROGRAMMER. :-)

> It is almost imposible to set it up for DOS
>use without getting some wierd problems that you won't experience
>with other speech packages selling for one eighth the price of
>Screen Reader.

What are you talking about?  My srd works just fine with DOS.  Sure, I
had to write a PAL script for 4dos'  help and hstory windows, but
that's just a couple of autospeaks.  In fact, I can put the code up
on the archive at NDSUVM1 if any of you are that interested.

If you could define 'wierd problems' it might help me figure out what
you are complaniing about.  I'm no big fan of PAL either.  It took me
a couple of months really working at it to get an understanding of
what's going on in the language.  Having good support from IBM helped
--
Brett Person
Guest Account
North Dakota State University
person@plains.nodak.edu || person@plains.bitnet




------



Subject: Re: Screen Reader
From: person@plains.nodak.edu (Brett Person)
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


In article <23729@handicap.news| William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org
 writes:
|Index Number: 23729
|
| GP|    I'll ask you a third time.  Please state the specific
| GP|    deficiencies you think exist in IBM's Screen Reader.  What
| GP|  do other packages provide that Screen Reader doesn'
|
|Greg,
|    I don't particularly want to get involved in this discussion, but..
|
|    I think David's saying that Screen Reader is dependant upon a
|knowledge of PAL to make it work well is fairly specific.  Likewise,
|your claim that it doesn't is just as specific, no more and mo less.
|
|     Now then, 99% of us out here, who have never seen Screen Reader, are
|being left in the position of having to decide which of you is telling
|us the truth, assuming that both of you have the same opinion as to what
|is user friendly in the way of speech and what is not!

They are both right to an extent.
Screen Reader doesn't necessarilly *require* you to know PAL<. Knowing
PAL  does help a great deal.
At this point, we have a quandary.  PAL will make screen reader more
usable with a speciffic package. However, to really use PAL
effectively, you have to know how to use screen reader effectively.

All the tools to mong a profile together are there. SAA-tools goes a
long way to helping create a profile for an environment. Likewise,
some of the basic built-ins to screen reader help.  Screen reader's
ability to find a string of text on screen combined with screen
reader's ability to move either the cursor or the pointer to that
location helps a great deal. Now, add to this the fact that screen
reader will actually tell you where the cursor and pointer are on the
screen at any given time , and you have the basis for writting your
own profiles.

To effectively use screen reader requires some basic simple thought
about what your applicatton is doing.  Even if you are totally blind
you must have a concept of that.  Otherwise, why are you using that
app?
Most word processors look and act like word processors. Most
spreadsheets have cells and formulas and menu-bars either at the top
of the screen or on the side in a pull down ( quattro)

I think that, as with a lot of software products, most people who use
screen reader have little idea of just what it can really do.  I
don't think that this is because they can't master PAL or can't handle
the keypad.  I think it's because they are busy with their jobs, and
probabnly have to worry more about getting that document written up,
or getting the numbers out of the database or spreadsheet.  They
probably care as much about the way screen reader works as I do about
the way the edit loop is working inside emacs as I type this.

Greg previously mentioned the internet site that archives profiles.
I think he was talking about mine. It's at IBM-SRD@vm1, and I'll send
out instructions in a followup message in case any of you want to get
stuff from it.  It should be current through the Spring news letter.

Any of you are free to send me questions about PAL programming. I'll
do what I can to help.  I'll also be finishing up the tutorial ( I
hope) in the next couple of weeks.  That will also be available
through the archive site and probably even from IBM although I haven't
discussed it with any of the people I know at IBM.

Screen Reader is easily the most powerfull screen access system on he
market. But to use it, you must understand it, know you software, nad
not be afraid to ask for help when you need it.

I hope this helps to clear some things up.

-Brett
--
Brett Person
Guest Account
North Dakota State University
person@plains.nodak.edu || person@plains.bitnet




------



Subject: Re: b n s
From: janina@netcom.com (Janina Sajka)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


The cable you need is available from Blazie for an extra $39, I
think.  But there's another way to share one synthesizer between
two computers.  You could use a simple A B switch box which costs
about $20.  Hook one computer to A and the other to B and run your
software on both.  Then you can simply flip a switch to use one or
the other.




------



Subject: Re: TALKING software
From: janina@netcom.com (Janina Sajka)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Fascinating -- and I truly hope it works well, because that would
certainly be good news.  BUT, let's be very clear, a computer's
ability to talk does not a speech interface make.  There's a major
diference between the ability to "print" to a speaker, and the
ability to function as an interface.  How, for example, does a user
say "huh?"  How does one find out what action options are
available?

One more thing, I'm always suspicious when a post of technology
news is full of unexplained jargon (Topov texture), yet seems to
need to explain basic jargon like ROM and RAM.  Am I to be
impressed?

							Janina




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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2892 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU