HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:05:53 GMT

scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
>
>One interesting thing is that in the majority of my encounters with dogs,
>they have been overly hostile when out in the woods, compared to the city.
>Anyone thoughts on this one?
>
I disagree, my bad experiences have always been in towns/cities,
gaurd dogs and otherwise.

Time for my 2 cents.

I've always been a dog lover, but never owned one.  Whenever I
encounter dogs on the trail, I pet them, talk about the weather
with the owners and move on.

My (new) girlfriend has a black lab, complete with perpetual stick
in mouth.  Last weekend we hiked 20 miles on an overnighter.  Everybody
we passed, ~20 people, did about the samething I do, some even threw
his stick for him.  So far the worst offense is giving a thouroughly
slobbered stick to someone.

I have to agree with the person who said people are more of a detriment
than dogs.  It is a deer/animals natural reaction to run away when
something starts chasing it.  There is nothing natural/normal about the
experience of sitting amoung 20 goats/animals.  Any goat that didn't
hightail it after detecting you has become used to people (like the
big-horns on the side of I-70 in CO).  

>If a dog attacks me either place, I will try to kill it.   Period.
>
(Heavy sarcasm) Actually I prefer to sit around and watch it eat
me.  Duh.

--Chris
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sysnet@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (David Morrison)
Subject: Re: MSR Whisperlite
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:14:23 GMT

> He said Zippo...  I can't remember the name of the lighter fluid that you put
> in Zippo's, it comes in different brands, the most common being a yellow
> bottle with blue writing (I'm sure somebody will follow up to this and let you
> know the name.) but you definitely don't use butane... Sheesh...  I don't
> beleive that white gas would suffice in a Zippo (something having to do with
> evaporation).  But hey, I've never tried it.

White spirit=white gas=Coleman fuel etc is by law labelled as lighter fuel
here (NSW).  It is used (surprise!) for refilling Zippo-style lighters.
 
The same liquid is also used for dry cleaning clothes.  A bottle I have
includes "U.N. 1226" on the label, but I am not sure if that is just a
catalogue number or whether it describes the fluid.
 
At one stage I could not find any at all, and did the rounds of the oil
company technical advice departments.  They were able to describe the stuff
chemically for me, and told me what to ask for.  I went to a local fuel
distributor who was quite prepared to sell me some - in 20 litre drums.  This
was a little more than I really required :-) although the price was good
(about $25).  I subsequently came across one litre bottles selling for $5
each :-(
-- 
David Morrison, Manager, Networks and Comms, Uni of Newcastle, Australia
sysnet@cc.newcastle.edu.au or (VAX PSI) psi%0505249626002::sysnet
Phone: +61 49 215397
From: dsew@troi.cc.rochester.edu (David Sewell)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Nalgene bottle lids (kiss them off!!)
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:25:47 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Aug25.215118.12552@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:

>I have moved up to new technology:  lexan!!  I buy coke in a 2 liter bottle

Jeesh.  So all those people I see going into the Catalinas in 100+
weather wearing flip-flops and tank-tops and carrying a coke-bottle full
of water for desert survival are actually high-tech and have probably
been reading rec.backcountry.  Guess I've got to revise my scorn
criteria... :)

-- 
David Sewell, English Dept, U of Rochester   |  *************************
  dsew@troi.cc.rochester.edu                 |  "Arizona -- it's not
  dsewell@violet.ccit.arizona.edu            |  Kansas and it never was."
  (On leave in Tucson, Arizona, '92-'93)     |  *************************
From: mikeq@aspen.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Exploding fuel bottles
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:29:09 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

I've used Sigg bottles with my MSR for the last 12 years in all kinds
of heat, altitude and hard knocks. No blowouts yet!

Mike
From: pad@galaxy.nsc.com (Paul Denny x8349)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: methanol
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:47:05 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara

In article <1992Sep1.171927.11554@ichips.intel.com>, jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece) writes:
> In rec.backcountry, pad@galaxy.nsc.com (Paul Denny x8349) writes:
> 
> > I have a trangia methanol (methylated spirit) camping stove which
> > I used happily in Europe. Now I have moved to the US I am having
> > trouble finding fuel. 
> 
I recently posted a summary of the replies to this question which 
contained an error; 

laquer thinner IS NOT METHANOL!!!

This should read *shellac* thinner

I would now recommend the use of boat stove fuel available from
boat shops - in any event look at the label and only use the
stuff that says it's methanol/denatured alcohol.

Hope I got it right this time - sorry for the error.

Paul
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Earthquake in ZION
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:58:51 GMT

klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee) writes:
>The info I heard was that the earthquake was east of Zion, near the
>Nevada border.  A landslide may have closed one of the roads into
>Zion.  You should call the park for more exact info.

East of Zion near the Nevada border.  This is contradictory. ;^)

--Chris



Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: nancy@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Nancy Feagans)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:14:19 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.164410.14431@ncar.ucar.edu> chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu writes:
>nancy@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Nancy Feagans) writes:
>>
>>This thread brings to mind another consideration about taking dogs into
>>the backcountry.  What would you do if you were backpacking in a remote
>>area and your dog was seriously injured?  
>
>What would you do if a person in your party was seriously
>injured?  This does not apply to just dogs.
>
>--Chris

Well, for starters, I wouldn't shoot the person.....  

-- 

Nancy J. Feagans     (818) 306-6423
Jet Propulsion Lab   nancy@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Subject: Re: methanol
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:19:27 GMT

In rec.backcountry, pad@galaxy.nsc.com (Paul Denny x8349) writes:

> I have a trangia methanol (methylated spirit) camping stove which
> I used happily in Europe. Now I have moved to the US I am having
> trouble finding fuel. 

Boat/marine supply stores usually have some.  Alcohol is one of the
few safe choices for use in boat galleys.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reece			"Oop. Ack. Pfffthpt"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			- Bill the Cat
From: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Water treatment article from Am J Pub Health (1989)
Date: 23 Aug 92 18:34:26 GMT
Reply-To: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

Just my comments on the AJPH article I posted.

The paper only addresses Giardia cysts.  The treatments which were ineffective
against Giardia may nonetheless be effective against other dangerous pathogens. 
"Worthless" and "effective" mean with respect to Giardia and might be reversed
for other dangers.

Also, of course, the study only addressed cyst removal, not the other aspects of
operation which are also important to a hiker.

The MSR and PUR filters were not available when this study was done.  Based on
the published characteristics of these filters, I would expect them to be
completely effective against Giardia, just as the Katadyn and First Need were
found to be.

It's obvious that chlorine-based treatments are ineffective against Giardia. 
Likewise, contact disinfectors don't touch Giardia.

What is more surprising is that iodine-based treatments are not effective
against Giardia at the standard half-hour treatment time.  Iodine is only
effective if you can let it act for at least several hours.  (Perhaps less for
warm water; note that the tests were done at 10C = 50F.)  This makes iodine
worthless for day hikers who are concerned about Giardia.

Boiling for ten minutes at 70C (158F) kills Giardia reliably.  Thus boiling will
do the job even at very high altitudes.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.meta.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.meta.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Subject: Re: Nalgene bottle lids (kiss them off!!)
Organization: Brandeis University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:24:38 GMT

More on using coke bottles:

Some juice jars are made of the same material as the 2l coke bottles,
but have wide (40mm) mouths.  Ocean Spray 1/2 gals are PETE, for
example.

-andy
From: donehoo@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Doyle Donehoo)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: handy tip: priming MSR whisperlite
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:36:02 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <3640020@hplsla.hp.com> jaym@hplsla.hp.com (Jay Miazga) writes:
>>Instead of priming your MSR Whisperlite with white-gas from the fuel bottle,
>>carry along a small squeeze bottle of alcohol.  
>I've been using this method with my Whisperlite, but had recently abandoned
>it because the alchohol didn't seem to want to light when it was cold.

I have been using this method for a couple of years now with great
success. Recent experiences in the field has convinced me it saves fuel,
primes faster, and keeps the stove cleaner. I use marine fuel (blue stuff),
and have never had trouble getting it lit. (I can't speak for temps below
30 degrees.)
One tip (Via Peter B.: thanks Peter!), is to bring along a BIC type
lighter (along with your waterproof matches): but don't forget to
keep it in a waterproof sanwich bag. Don't work so well wet.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The mountains are calling me, and I must go."   John Muir           |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|"Man has got astray out of his orbit, or away from the ends for which |
| he was created." John Muir.                                          |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
"I only went out for a walk, but resolved to stay till sunset, for going
out, I found, was really going in."  John Muir

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Exploding fuel bottles
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:01:19 GMT

The bottom of my Sigg bottle, that I use with my MSR Whisperlite,
"blew out" (i.e. like a frozen soda).  I think this was from leaving
the bottle pressurized all the time, with constant 5000' elevation
changes & 40 degree temperature swings.  The integrity of the bottle
seems fine, but it will not stand up on the bottom.

--Chris
From: Sstevens@oregon.uoregon.edu (Shirien Stevens)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: water storage for emergencies
Keywords: bleach water storage
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:05:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: oregon.Sstevens.124
Organization: University of Oregon

I think it would be a good idea to store some water in plastic milk jugs for 
emergencies.  How much bleach per gallon should I use?  How long will the 
water be good?  Should I change it every so often?  Is iodine better to use? 
I wanted to go inexpensively.....

thanks.

sstevens@oregon.uoregon.edu
From: edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:55:37 GMT
Subject: Re: a visit to edward abbey land
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

Big Bend might be best at Christmas, I have no direct knowledge of it.  October
or early November would probably be best for S. Utah.  North Rim  of the
Grand Canyon can close anytime in November and the road in is not plowed.
Zion would have nice colors in October, yet be pleasent hiking
up on the rim without snow.  Bryce is high and can get snow later in the
season.

On the other hand, white snow, red rock and blue sky shure is purty.

IMHO, October would be best.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing,su.etc,su.jobs.offered
From: wbm@freedom.stanford.edu (Wally Mann)
Subject: REDWOOD 10hr/wk Student Job Available
Originator: wbm@freedom.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: su
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:59:06 GMT

REDWOOD (Recreational Educational & Developmental Workshops Out of Doors) 
is hiring a student assistant for the academic year.

REDWOOD is a new outdoor program at Stanford with a focus on community, 
education and personal development.  It will offer year-round educational
and recreational outdoor trips.  REDWOOD, in conjunction with the Haas
Center for Public Service, will also run the First Year Trips project 
to take new students on a camping or public service outing the week 
before school starts.

RESPONSIBILITIES:
Initially, the person will help with the hiring of the REDWOOD Program
Coordinator:  copy and mail applications, arrange meetings of the
interview committee, and coordinate interview schedule.  In addition,
the person will help create the REDWOOD Voluntary Student Organization
and get the organization set up.

Once the program is set up, the student assistant will provide logistical
help for REDWOOD and be an assistant to the Coordinator:  arrange outing
logistics, purchase and oversee maintenance of equipment, coordinate
REDWOOD with the Haas Center for Public Service, advertise workshops,
and keep financial records.

QUALIFICATIONS:
Registered Stanford student.

Organized, motivated and enthusiastic.

Commitment to making REDWOOD work.  As student jobs go, this one will be
demanding of your time and energy.

Experience in the outdoors.

Experience with public service work.

PAY:  	$8/hour, 10 hours/week
	Starting immediately.

TO APPLY:  Contact 
		Troy Gilbert
		Office of Student Activities
		725-3112

Feel free to contact me for more information.
Wally Mann
wbm@freedom
415-494-8442
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mefels@triples.math.mcgill.ca (Mark Fels)
Subject: Trip Report La Verendrye Park.
Organization: Dept Of Mathematics and Statistics
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 23:42:13 GMT


Hello, sometime ago I asked for information on canoeing in Maine. 
It was suggested that I try the Allagash or St. John's River.
One member of the party had their heart set on going to La Verendrye
Park, so we ended up there for 6 day paddle. I've been to Algonquin
Park in Ontario many times and can compare the La Verendrye route.  
As an aside Algonquin park is north of toronto and the one thing I really 
like about the park is one is almost certain to see some large wildlife
(moose esp.) The park has some nice lake canoeing and one river route. 
( La Verendrye has many more river routes). Unfortunately there are 
many long portages on most descent length routes in Algonquin. 
The northern part of the park is fairly sparsly travelled off holidays. 
If anyone wants specifics on the place I can post later. 
All in all a nice easy place to canoe, nice campsites well marked portages etc. 
The canoe route map is 1:100,000 which is enough resolution to use without 
topos.  

La Verendrye is a large park about 3-4 hundred kilometers north of
Montreal, or 2-3 north east of Ottawa. It is a large park, 
and does not have many restrictions with regards to motor boats. 
(Algonguin on the other hand is quite restrictive). 
However the route that I was on was mostly river so didn't see any motor boats. 
The route I took in La Verendrye was the Chocouchane (sp.) river loop in
the very north east corner of the park. (the park map is free and
I can post the address, actually one can obtain all the provincial
park maps in quebec for free) The map is about 1:150,000 and is
a bit difficult to use to navigate in some areas. I took a couple
of topos for some areas that looked tricky. 
There is also a map 1:50000 (I guess) of just the river portion of
this route, also free.  The loop involves some lake/ creeks
going up to top of river then down the river and some small lakes/creeks
back to starting point. The trip is about 130km.
The main reason I'm posting this is to recommend this river to people that
have done a little bit of white-water some R1-2 stuff and are looking
for a bit more. Now the route is not maintained by the park and some
of the portages are a little difficult to find, however the river contains
a large number (maybe 8 sets) of R2-3 type rapids which are reasonably 
easy to run. There are also about 4-5 R1-2 sets of which one 
is about 500m long, quite nice. Some R3-4 but didn't run any of them.
Portages on the river part were well marked. There is a bit of creek work 
involved on this route (in and out of the boat over beaver dams etc., 
but I like that stuff for variety.) and a number of small portages.
The area is quite remote, but part of the route leaves the park and
the larger lakes outside the park have fly-in camps. We saw one group
of canoeists in 6 days. Fiberglass canoes can be rented at the park
for ~ 20$ Canadian (life jackets extra <-- scam). 
Hope this wasn't a waste of time. 
Mark.
From: demo@mipps.myapc.com (Demo Account)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Outdoor programs for high school kids?
Keywords: high school, outdoor, program
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:05:28 GMT
Organization: Maine Yankee, Wiscasset, Maine  USA

Does anyone have experience developing outdoor programs for 
high school age kids?  

While I was president of my college's outing club
I would often hear people say they wished they could have done more 
outdoor activities in high school. 

I live in an area that would be ideal for a high school outing/leadership
organization.  I would like to know if anyone has already done this and
if so what kind of success have they had.  I would appreciate any info
you could send me.

Thanks..

Robert M. Hubley
Systems Analyst 
MYAPC                      



hubley@mipps.myapc.com



Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: flb@lune.berkeley.edu (Frederick Lee Burghardt)
Subject: Re: Svea 123R (was: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-) 
Reply-To: flb@lune.berkeley.edu (Frederick Lee Burghardt)
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 00:10:39 GMT

Derek  Snyder said this about the Svea:

>The only problem that I encountered with the stove is when I tried to use
>the mini-pump thingie that you can get to prime it with. After a while,
>the fuel cap that came with the mini-pump started to leak (i.e., a little
>flame came out the end of it). Besides the obvious dangers, the stove also
>didn't stay pressureized and burned cold. I've been told that this is a
>common problem with the mini-pump.

I should comment on this since I had a less than happy experience 
with a "little flame" just recently.  Now, I love my Svea123 - it's been 
puffing along on backpacking and car camping trips for over ten years 
now, and I've had few complaints except for the stability issue (I dumped 
a pan of cornbread while camping in the Grand Canyon in 1981.  Oh well.)
But somehow and somewhere some damage was done to the fuel filler
hole sealing surface on the tank - some small dents.  While camping
several weeks ago somewhere in Kings Canyon NP I, too, noticed a
little flame coming from the under the lip of the filler cap.  Well, this
being the only stove available I rationalized that it was no big deal.
Some time later, at Lake Virginia just south of Mammoth, that little
flame became a four foot pillar of flame as raw fuel came spitting out 
through the damaged seal and the stove got hotter and hotter.  The only 
way to put it out was to dump some water on it.  Now, I'm not sure how
close to bombhood my stove came, but I didn't use it for the rest of the 
trip, and I won't use it until it's repaired or replaced.

Just a note to illustrate how little flames can become big trouble.

Lee Burghardt
From: pro016@muvms3.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: I'm back !
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:32:01 GMT
Organization: Marshall University


      WELCOME BACK  MICKI !!!!!!!!!!!

             
From: edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 01:27:29 GMT
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

Regarding dogs in the backcountry.....

This is a topic regularly debated in this forum, but I can't resist.

My wife and I spent a few wonderful days in the Mummy range of RMNP
2 years ago.  While walking above Lawn lake, we looked around and
found ourselves in the middle of a herd of bighorns.  They were
clearly skittish, but not intimidated.  We simply sat down and
enjoyed them for nearly an hour.  There were other folks
in the area, and I can conclude with 98% certainty that if anyone
would have had their dog with them, we simply could have not had
that experience.

I understand that some folks consider their animals part of the
family, but remember those animals don't get the aesthetic
pleasure of parks like we do.  Since the National Parks are
a shared resource, and there are plenty of places that do
allow dogs, I just can't be sympathetic to those who object
to the ban.
From: fholtsberry@oavax.csuchico.edu (Fran Holtsberry)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Source for reflector oven
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:50:50 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

I usually make my own. If you are car camping, you can use a cardboard box 
and three wire coathangers and some heavy duty foil and make a great 
reflector oven.

I have seen them made with 4 or 5 cooky sheets and some wire. (this takes 
predrilling and some bolts and wingnuts).

And I have made primitive ones with forked sticks and wire and foil.

I agree that $70 is too much to spend on a reflector oven.


Fran Holtsberry,
Fran_holtsberry@macgate.csuchico.edu

-_-Good design is not a default setting-_-
From: pad@galaxy.nsc.com (Paul Denny x8349)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: methanol
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:19:47 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara

In article <122440171@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, rhm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Miller) writes:
> In rec.backcountry, pad@galaxy.nsc.com (Paul Denny x8349) writes:
> 
> > I have a trangia methanol (methylated spirit) camping stove which
> > I used happily in Europe. Now I have moved to the US I am having
> > trouble finding fuel. 
> > 
> > If anyone knows where this stuff can be found I would be grateful 
> > if you would email me.
> > 
> > many thanks - Paul
> 
Thanks for all the helpful replies - Some people suggested pharmacies
but none round here stock it, others suggested laquer thinner from 
hardware stores which I haven't tried yet but sounds promising. I 
got some at a local boat shop which sell it as boat stove fuel which
is some blend of methanol and "alcohol" (ethanol?) which works fine.

All this talk of stoves I am surprised noone has mentioned the Trangia-
they are silent, work just as fast or faster however windy it gets and
include a cookset that nests very efficiently around the stove. The only
minor complaint is that simmering control is virtually non-existant but
I have always managed to live with this when camping.