HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mappler@titan.ucc.umass.edu (MATTHEW A APPLER)
Subject: My kite finally worked
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Amherst
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:38:49 GMT

I have found out that my last few posts didn't actually go anywhere,
so here goes again....

I finally got my new kite to work...  I have been working on it for
about 5 months now.  Marty, I don't know if you remember helping me.
For anyone who does, I got the INITIAL design from One Hour Kites.  I
started making the stunt kite described in there, but I upgraded the
materials to ripstop nylon, fiberglass, etc, etc, etc.  Well, as I
worked, I found that the design for the kite was completely wrong.
Most of the measurements were off and did not come out right.  This
being the first kite I have tried to make, I was a little
dissappointed.  But, I had already invested a lot of time and money
into it, so I tried to redesign and make it work.  I have talked with
a few people and had them take a look at the kite, trying to get lift
out of the kite...  The only stunters I have flown have been Powell
Diamonds, and I haven't understood the dynamics of a kite.  

Well, this weekend, after another redesign of the kite, IT FLEW!!!!
It was incredible.  It was fast, nimble, and incredible controlled.
To make it fly right though, I had to detactch it from the spine, and
move the spine to the front of the kite.  The sail is currently only
connected along the wings of the kite.  This was because I had NO
material at the top, only the bottom.  It works, but of course it
stalls because the sail flattens when I bring it into the wind.

A few questions....  

One:  If I reconnect the sail to the top, I won't have enough material
at the top of the kite.  Is there anyway to get more material up there
short of remaking the sail.  (Remaking it is not a bad option, but I
wanted to wait till I knew the design worked so I didn't have to
remake it more than once).

Two:  What do standoffs do?  I mean, Why are they important?  Do they
increase control, or anything like that????

Three:  When remaking the sail, as I have no pattern to go off of, how
do I get the correct dimensions.  Just trigonometry or are there
tricks to the trade?

Thanks to all for there help...... I'm addicted.....

  Matt

P.S.  I would like to make a few add-ons for my powell's.  The only
piece I don't know how to get is the connector piece in the middle of
the kite where the spreaders come together.  Does anyone have a source
for this????

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Matthew Appler  at  the University of Massachusettes |******Orioles******| 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Internet: mappler@titan.ucc.umass.edu       |(Almost)TOP OF AL EAST!!!!!!|
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael James Gebis)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: was: Phantom-Bantam - Spar question; now: Rev II spar question
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:29:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvCu5G.Bs5
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

[Explains problem about Rev II spars breaking in the wind.]

This seems kinda strange....I've never actually seen a stock Rev II break.
However, I have seen a stock Rev II, at my own hands, smash into a concrete
table at 40+ MPH and be none worse for the wear.  (Not intentional, of course)

However, I can imagine several possiblities.  If you tend to hit the ground
at an angle, or hit the ground while turning, I can imagine putting a lot of
stress on the top spar.  I tend to crash with the entire leading edge, so the
whole thing hits at once.  The only way you could fix this is to not crash.

If the tension in the top were REALLY strong, could put additional stress
on the top spar.  Check the top bungees, and make sure that they are tight, but
not putting much stress on any spar.

The best possiblity, IMHO, is that the bridle system is screwed up.  On my
Rev, the lines that would connect the bridle to the center portion of the 
kite came apart.

______**______
\     /\    /
  \ /    \ /

At the point where the two asteriks are on this diagram, there should be a line
going around the top spar that is connected to the bridle running left to right
across the kite.  (It's not easy to draw, and I don't have lots of time to mess
around.  sorry.)  Make sure that this exists.  Otherwise, stress that should
be carried by the bridle is being carried by the center spar.

Hope this helps, and good luck

_________________ Mike Gebis                         /\        /\
\   re\/olution / m-gebis@uiuc.edu OR              /    \    /    \
  \    /^\    /   mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu      /   uoi1nlo/\aj    \
    \/     \/     I can fly backwards-can you?  ----------------------
From: tpappas@hamp.hampshire.edu
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Alluminum Arrow Shaft ?
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:51:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: hamp.1992Sep29.135106.1
Organization: Hampshire College

hello, 
I was hoping someone could recomend a supplier of Alluminum arrow shafts.
Yes a good, inexpensive source. Or just plain ol' alluminum shaft tubing.
						Thanks Much!
						Tom Pappas
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: danr@crash.cts.com (Dan Rubesh)
Subject: Yowww!!  QuadriFoil 50
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 28 Sep 92 22:05:50 PDT

Well, I finally gave in to a long-standing lust for a QuadriFoil 50
(50 sq feet of sail), and got it rigged and launched Monday
afternoon.. The wind was a steady 5-6 with a few gusts to about 8, and
from what I've seen so far, this kite is going to re-define power
flying, at least for me.. It's by far the hardest pulling _single_
kite that I've owned/flown to date.. I have a Force 10, and Flexis to
12.5 feet, and have flown Flexi stacks that were awesome, but never a
single that generated quite so much power.. I haven't as yet had the
opportunity to fly a Peel, so can't give a comparison there. From what
I've read of the Peel, it may be the only kite that'll match or out
power the Q-50.. [and if it does, Kite Innovations also makes a 
Q-75 :-) ] Even with the relatively light wind, it was pulling me easily
across the park, and I weigh about 240. I'll report back when I've had a
chance to fly it in some higher winds..

Ob. Disclaimer:

I am a stunt kite dealer and carry some of the above mentioned
product(s). As such, my opinions may tend to be somewhat subjective.

Good Winds and Tight Lines!!


                              WIND WIZARD

Purveyor of High Quality, High Performance Stunt Kites and Accessories!! 

Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: avorwall@kasaan.enet.dec.com (Alan D. Vorwaller x.6865 pager 480-5213)
Subject: Re: Alluminum Arrow Shaft ?
Reply-To: avorwall@kasaan.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:02:40 GMT

--
In article <1992Sep29.135106.1@hamp.hampshire.edu>, tpappas@hamp.hampshire.edu
writes:
|>hello, 
|>I was hoping someone could recomend a supplier of Alluminum arrow shafts.
|>Yes a good, inexpensive source. Or just plain ol' alluminum shaft tubing.

I've been doing a lot of my own kite making and repairing, and in the process
have looked
for good inexpensive light weight tubing.  The problem with aluminum is, first,
plain old
aluminum tubing has no where near the strength and stiffness needed so you have
to
go to arrow shafts, second, the arrow shafts are usually shorter and heavier
than desired,
to get narrow shafts costs A LOT $$$ and it is still hard to find long ones,
such as for the
size needed in a full size Chicago Fire Bee lower cross bar.  Graphite is still
the easiest to
find in the right diameter, thickness, and strength.

_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_
'Oom papa chaka maka nava sing cow, ting caba lala walee double ching pow
 heavy caba lulu cama chela sing tee, oom mama chaka mana one is now free'
					(2NU, 'This is ponderous')

AV	     Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation 	     Ski Utah!
=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=-_-=
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: malle@rpksun1.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de (Bernhard Malle)
Subject: Looking for superman logo
Keywords: superman, gif, logo, kite
Organization: Univerity of Karlsruhe (FRG)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:03:44 GMT

I'm looking for a good picture of the superman logo. I want to build a kite
with the superman logo. That's the big 'S' that he wears on his breast.

Does anyone of you has this logo, preferably as a gif?

I have tried the gif, that I found at wuarchive, but it is very small. It also
seems that all superman comics have disappeared from our local bookstores.

Any help is very much appreciated.


Bernhard

malle@rpksun1.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de
From: allen.edwards@spacebbs.com (Allen Edwards) 
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: WIZZARD STUNT KITE
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:39:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: allen.edwards@spacebbs.com (Allen Edwards) 

I was wondering if anyone could give a review of the Wizzard Stunt
Kite.  I have a Sky Burner which is fast and pulls a lot and was looking
for something a little different.  I think I saw a Wizzard but am not
sure.  Anyway,  if anyone out there has one or has flown one and could
give a little apprasial of the kite I would appreciate it.
                                            
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: kevin@sparc1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Kevin Mayeshiro)
Subject: Phantom-Bantam - Spar question
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:56:43 GMT

Does anyone know what type/size of spars are used in the Phantom-Bantam?  
Has anyone ever replaced these spars to make the kite perform better?  
(Overall?  In light winds?)  Any information would be greatly appreciated.  

Thanks 

- Kevin

--
  Kevin Y. Mayeshiro               Internet:     kevin@Hawaii.Edu
  #include <standard/disclaimer.h>
From: allen.edwards@spacebbs.com (Allen Edwards) 
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: NORTHWEST CHALLENGE AND F
Date: 2 Oct 92 05:51:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: allen.edwards@spacebbs.com (Allen Edwards) 

Where and when in Oregon?
AE
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Phantom-Bantam - Spar question
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:53:58 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park

In article <1992Sep26.195643.27578@news.Hawaii.Edu> kevin@sparc1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Kevin Mayeshiro) writes:
>Does anyone know what type/size of spars are used in the Phantom-Bantam?  
>Has anyone ever replaced these spars to make the kite perform better?  
>(Overall?  In light winds?)  Any information would be greatly appreciated.  

Both the Phantom and the Bantam are sparred with Beman 5.5mm pultruded
graphite.  This is some of the finest pultruded graphite on the market.  
Very light and very stiff, though also a bit brittle (certainly not as
bad as Advantage 2-wrap).

You could theoretically lighten the Phantom by using a lighter graphite,
either wrapped (Advantage 2-wrap) or pultruded (probably one of the
small-diameter AFC sizes like .1960").  The Advantage would be stiffer and
lighter than the Beman, but more likely to break in less than ultralight
conditions.  Advantage also has a great dislike for ground contact.  In
addition, it's questionable as to whether the weight advantage would
outweight the cost, and if the modification is even necessary!  I fly my
stock (beman) Phantom in winds of ~1mph, so I've never felt a need to 
respar it.

A friend of mine has built a couple of phantom knock-offs with AFC .1960"
frames.  They fly quite nicely in extremely light winds, but the .1960 is
a bit flexible for a full-sized kite and distort as the wind picks up a bit.

Jeff

-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: gernot@adobe.com (Gernot Huber)
Subject: was: Phantom-Bantam - Spar question; now: Rev II spar question
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:36:38 GMT

In Article 1412 (28 Sep 92 02:53:58 GMT) Jeff Burka writes:

>The Advantage [2-wrap] would be stiffer and lighter than the Beman, but more 
>likely to break in less than ultralight conditions.  Advantage also has a 
>great dislike for ground contact.

This definitely seems to be the case! I recently bought a Rev II (I hope I
remember correctly when I assert that it is spec'd with Advantage 2-wrap, or 
was it 3-wrap?). While I love the kite, I have broken the female half of the 
leading edge spar twice in 4 hours of flight, in winds that probably never 
exceeded 15 mph. Both times the spar broke in mid-flight in the center of the 
wind, but I suspect that some sloppy and/or unintentional groundwork must have 
cracked the spar before it finally broke. Both times it happened, I was flying 
over hard ground, while I haven't had trouble on soft grass or sand.

I have only gotten into kiting within the last month (I also own a Peter Powell
diamond), and I find groundwork to be the most fascinating part of flying. It's
thus quite likely that my Rev II will have to endure further rough ground work
before I consistently get the hang of it, and I would like to know if someone 
can give me advice on replacement spars that aren't as brittle as Advantage 
2-wrap. I would primarily be interested in spars that aren't too much heavier
than the Advantage, so as not to impede low-wind flyability too much. What is a
good compromise for a Rev II? AFC .1960", which Jeff mentions, or somthing 
else, and where can I get this stuff? (I live in the Bay Area.)

Thanks a lot,

Gernot
gernot@adobe.com
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: I can't find it!
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:10:55 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park

In article <1992Sep30.173415.9998@amc.com> marty@amc.com (Marty Akerman) writes:
>
>
>Hey kiters!
>
>Some questions for the kite makers in the audience:
>
>I am looking for some materials that my local kite shop, and fabric stores
>have not been able to supply.  If you know where I could get some, either
>locally (Seattle, WA.), or mail-order, please respond via e-mail.
>
>1)  "Flesh-toned" rip-stop.  I want to make some appliques in the form of
>    cartoon characters, and have not been able to find material of the right
>    color.  Perhaps you could suggest a different material that would be
>    suitable.  As it is not a structural part of the kite, it really doesn't
>    have to be rip-stop.

By "flesh" do you mean caucasian, or what?  I seem to remember one of Hang 'em
High's colors (one of the melons, I guess) being vaguely whiteskinlike, and
it'd probably be suitable.  Unfortuantely, I gave my swatch book to someone
since I was about to place an order anyway, and when I requested a new
catalogue, they didn't include the colors.  Oops.  

>2)  Dacron.  So many of the kite plans I've seen call for something like
>    "3 inch wide 4 oz. dacron" for reinforcement.  Haven't been able to
>    find any.

4oz may be hard to find, but 3.5 and 3.9 oz dacron is quite common.  You can 
usually  buy it in rolls like regular fabric, or you can get it pre-cut into 
2" or 3" strips.  It's also available in a variety of colors.  Both High Fly
and Hang 'em High carry it, and I believe Into the Wind sells some as well.

>3)  Nylon taffeta.  My SO wants to make windsocks, which are usually made
>    of this material.  We haven't been able to find any of this either.

Gee--my local fabric store has plenty of taffeta.  Into the Wind has an 
"Oxford Cloth" (nylon, fade resistant, water repellent) meant for windsocks/
flags.  5.50/yd, in ROYGBIV and B/W.

All 3 addresses are in the addresses FAQ.  

Jeff
-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
From: cfwong@pbhyd.PacBell.COM (C.F. Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: AKA Convention Results - L[D[Cubbock TExa[D[D[Dexas (Preliminary list)
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:06:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: pbhyd.1992Oct5.210630.5436
Reply-To: cfwong@PacBell.COM (C.F. Wong)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

Just wanted to post the preliminary results for the stunt kite events from the
AKA convention that was just concluded:

Single Line:

Grand Champion   Jose Sainz for his Aztec Calendar
People's Choice  "

Dual Line:
   Master's Team Precision        1st - The Flight Squadron
                                  2nd - High Performance
                                  3rd - Air Art

  Master's Team Ballet            1st - High Performance
                                  2nd - Flight Squadron
                                  3rd - Bay Area Sundowners

 Masters Ind. Ballet              1st - Jim Baldo
                                  2nd - Ron Reich
                                  3rd - Bob Hanson

Masters Ind. Precision            1st - Scott Aughenbaugh

 Experienced Ind Ballet           1st - John Morrison

 Experienced Ind Precision        1st - John Barressi

I don't have the individual scores because I forgot to pick up the sheets
before I left.
From: sc5@prism.gatech.EDU (CSEPLO,STEPHEN P)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Upcoming Events in the Southeast - October
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:18:18 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Here's a list of upcoming events for the southeast USA for the month
of October:

October 10 at Olympic High School in Charlotte:

      Third Annual Kitefest sponsored by CAKE: New date, new location
      for this third edition of the event. Normally a pretty fun event.

October 10 at Blairsville 

      Bald Mountain Kite Club fly in conjunction with the Sorgum Festival
      in Blairsville, Georgia. Strickly a fly, no competition. Look for
      the kites along the bypass road, besides the bank parking lot.

       PS: Blairsville is so small, you can't miss it.

More info & contacts on Monday.

Geentle breezes.


-- 

The Mad Hata  

"Hey, Mon....Tako Kichi!"
From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Phantom-Bantam - Spar question
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:20:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Sep28.132030.21012
Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications

In article <15743@umd5.umd.edu> jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes:
>In article <1992Sep26.195643.27578@news.Hawaii.Edu> kevin@sparc1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Kevin Mayeshiro) writes:
>Both the Phantom and the Bantam are sparred with Beman 5.5mm pultruded
>graphite.  This is some of the finest pultruded graphite on the market.  
>Very light and very stiff, though also a bit brittle (certainly not as
>bad as Advantage 2-wrap).

If you did decide to move to the Advantage 2 wraps you would probably
end up with almost no weight change. The sticks themselves are about
1/2 ounce lighter for the set, but yo will have to go to larger vinyls
and the Advantage T is a little heavier. Clearwater sticks will
probably get you a little weight advantage.

As Jeff mentions you can try smaller pultruded graphite. AFC 1960 and
1880 sticks are lighter and probably stiff enough. You can also try
Beman 5.0mm sticks. Advantage makes a smaller stick as well. I think
it is 3/16 inch 1-1/2 wraps. It's the stuff that is used in the
Tandem's battens.

The lighter sticks are more flexible. This will change the way that a
kite flies so don't be surprised if the performance, except in
lightest wind, actuall decreases.



--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Marty Sasaki			  Sasaki Kite Fabrications		
  mss@das.harvard.edu		  26 Green Street
  phone:  617-522-8546		  Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: Peter Jarich <pnj1@cornell.edu>
Subject: Wisconsin Kiting?
X-Xxdate: Tue, 29 Sep 92 14: 07:19 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: pnj1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:02:26 GMT
From: steveth@netcom.com (Steve Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Has anyone flown the Zephyr?
Keywords: Zephyr
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:13:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Sep30.211358.13454
Organization: VisionAire, San Francisco, CA

In article <1992Sep24.135822.7593@walter.cray.com> treptau@romulus.cray.com writes:
>
>
>I recently saw the Zephyr in the air, and when talking to the flier,
>was surprised to find that it was graphite sparred, and also quite
>inexpensive. (~$80) This was the only kite he ever owned, so he could not
>offer much in the way of comparisons. Are there any r.k readers who have
>flown this kite care to offer an opinion and/or comparisons to other kites?
>What is the low end of the wind range? How precise is it? How fast does it
>turn? etc... 
>
The Zephyr is not a bad kite, but you get what you pay for, as they say...

Although framed in graphite, the kite seems to need a fair amount of wind
to lift it, and then it won't take a whole lot of wind (I'd probably rate the
kite at about 6-18 mph).  It also has a very "mass produced" look to it...

The graphite they use seems to be a very strange, plastic-like substance--and
it is much more flexible than say AFC in the same diameter.

As for flying, it's pretty sluggish through turns-it's rather handicapped by
a real flexible frame.  I can't think of anything off hand to compare it to,
but although it's certainly not the best thing I've ever flown, it's not
the worst, either.

There's not much out there in that price range--if you want something cheaper
get a Cheeta (sp?), or splurge a little to get something a little better.
Here in the Bay Area, a local kite maker makes a kite called a Streaker 6.2
that retails for $85 (he's slowly getting stores all over the US, though).
If you want details about that, just ask...

Steve Thomas
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Has anyone flown the Zephyr?
Keywords: Zephyr
Date: 1 Oct 92 04:21:25 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park

In article <1992Sep30.211358.13454@netcom.com> steveth@netcom.com (Steve Thomas) writes:

>There's not much out there in that price range--if you want something cheaper
>get a Cheeta (sp?), or splurge a little to get something a little better.

For another $30 or so, you can get Peter Powell's SkyLite.  This is a full-
sized delta made of Carrington K42 fabric on AFC spars which retails for $129.

I finally had a chance to fly one last week in a decent wind (I'd flown one
in aboue 3-4 mph last summer, and while it flew satisfactorily, it wasn't
anywhere near optimum) and it was a lot of fun.  Not exactly radical, but
easy to maneuver into all sorts of floating turns.  It also skates very
nicely.  It seems like many kites lose their ability to skate as the wind
increases.  This may be the case with the SkyLite, but it was still
skating nicely in winds of about 8 or a tad more.

I've recommended the SkyLite to folks before, based on a brief flight, and
the quality of the materials and construction in view of the price.  I feel
a lot more comfortable recommending it now, though that recommendation
is still limited to beginner or intermediate fliers.  

Jeff
-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
From: allen.edwards@spacebbs.com (Allen Edwards) 
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: I CAN'T FIND IT!
Date: 1 Oct 92 06:06:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: allen.edwards@spacebbs.com (Allen Edwards) 

You can get Dacron in many weights at a boat sail maker.  It will
probably be white and very stiff.  Good luck.  AE