From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Walk away, run away, was Re: Pre-Sex Contract
X-To: OLEG KISELEV
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 03:42:00 GMT

oleg@netcom.com (Oleg Kiselev) writes...
>In article <1992Dec21.021844.9653@netcom.com> rohwerwd@netcom.com (Mr. Tickle M
>nster) writes:
>>>*Her* child?  If you have fathered it, it's your child as well.
>>     If she and I make an agreement in advance and she unilaterally
>>breaks the agreement by keeping the child, then she should live with
>>the consequences of her decision and raise the child by herself without
>>my support.

>It's her child and yours if you had fathered it.  Period.  If she decides
>that she will keep the little monster alive rather than abort it, then it's
>not the child's fault that she changed her mind.  By having had intercourse
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>with the woman you have implicitly commited yourself to taking financial
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>responsibility for the possible result of your indulgence.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And do you also believe that a woman who has intercourse, has consented to
remain pregnant regardless of her wishes?

When I consent to sex, I consent to *just* sex - nothing more.


>>If she and I agree to alter our agreement, so that I have
>>visitation rights and pay child support, after she becomes pregnant,
>>then I would pay child support.

>You are in no position to make conditional offers.  You have agreed to pay
>child support as soon as you decided to have sex with her.

Oh really, Oleg?  Please provide relevant legal documentation which states
that a man's consent to the sex act is also consent to child support?

I'm interested in seeing it - *if* it exists.



>>     See my first paragraph.  My parental responsibility does disapear
>>if the woman unilaterally breaks our agreement.

>Your parental responsibility is to the *child*, not the mother.  Because
>you have not entered any contracts with the child and the child is an
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>unwilling victim of your actions, you have a financial obligation to
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I take it that you're Pro-Life, then...?  This wasn't an insult, just a
question.


>do provide your share for the child's welfare.  The woman will also pay the
>price -- most of her time and most of her money over the next 18-21 years
>will be spent on feeding, dressing and comforting your offspring.

>>The legal system will
>>have a different opinion and will make me pay child support.  I will
>>pay child support if and only if the court decides that I am the parent
>>and gives me an order to pay.

>If you keep up with this contract business, you are most unlikely to get
>to the courtroom.  Or the bedroom.
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not necessarily.  Indeed, a lot of women who agree that having sex is *not*
a consent to forced pregnancy, also strongly agree that consenting to sex
isn't consent to forced fatherhood, either.

Besides, I hardly think that it will get this discussion anywhere for you
to attempt to knock down David's position by demeaning his sexual
attractiveness - this is an _ad hominem_ "argument" to write home about.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Gravity: It's more than just a fragrance.  It's the LAW!"
   - Will Steeves, President, GOiDS "R" We, Inc.

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