HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: djb6@quads.uchicago.edu (dennis joseph brennan)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.dragonlance
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:50:27 GMT
Reply-To: djb6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr13.224743.17452@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>repayne@newstand.syr.edu (Robert E. Payne) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Apr4.180931.15062@uunet.uu.net>, EGIBBS@csci1.csci.unt.edu (Austin Gibbs) writes:
>>|> Group: rec.arts.dragonlance
>>|> Status: unmoderated
>
>>	I would find such a group a good addition.  I find that there
>>aren't enough newsgroups with this type of fantasy content.  That is
>>primarily why I read news, to get some entertainment and relieve some
>>stress (maybe why I flame people quite a bit ;-P Well, anyway, I guess I
>>have to vote yes on such a group, I appreciate the dragonlance series
>>and would favor a place to discuss it.
>
>    If you want to discuss the books of the Dragonlance series there are
>currently two places in which you would within group charters to post.
>The first is rec.arts.sf.written, but it is probably not the best
>choice, since all of the Dragonlance material is based on the AD&D
>role-playing game published by TSR and the appropriate group for the
>discussion of such is rec.games.frp.
>    I really don't see how anyone can take this proposal seriously. If
>you are a regular reader of either of the 2 groups that I mention you
>know that there is basically zero traffic with regards to Dragonlance.
>How can anyone justify a newsgroup devoted to a topic that has no
>discussion traffic?
>
>Hades (Brian V. Hughes)

I agree with Brian.  Not only does the low level of Dragonlance/Krynn
traffic on rec.games.frp indicate the unlikelihood that the new group
will thrive but I believe it isn't advisable to set aside a particular 
fictional universe for special treatment.  If Krynn gets its own newsgroup
will a Thieves Word/Sanctuary newsgroup be demanded? Forgotten Realms?
No, let the current newsgroups rec.sf.written and rec.games.frp handle
the traffic.
From: michael@dime.cs.umass.edu (Michael Kieras)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:40:48 GMT
Reply-To: michael@dime.cs.umass.edu (Michael Kieras)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <axolotl.702955872@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au writes:
>smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) writes:
> >Otherwise, it's still comic books
>
>Fallacy, as stated (& proved) repeatedly.

Would you be so kind to produce the message-id of at least one message
that has proved this?

A little while ago I requested that you enumerate specific differences
between comics and mangas.  I'm still waiting.


Michael Kieras
michael@cs.umass.edu
From: dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga: Replies to Iain Sinclair
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:47:56 GMT
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs

lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>....  "Sequential art", as it is used in colloquial English, means comic
>books, comic strips, graphic novels, and other similar illustrated stories
>that are strongly driven by their visual aspect.

There may be a subjective element to that.  It's dangerous when we define
a word using colloquial English.  You've just opened the door for 
rec.arts.manga fans to say that the colloquial definition of "comic"
is "western comics" as opposed to "Asian comics".  Actually, I would agree
with that.  I never think of manga when someone says, "comic book."
Let's keep colloquialisms out of this.

--David
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+-----+
| <:-)  -Manga fans, | David Blume            | "..." -Anime fans,    |  o  |
| reading KOR #18    | dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com | viewing the KOR movie | ^ ^ |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+-----+
From: g1400050@nickel.laurentian.ca
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD for new IMAGE PROCESSING newsgroup
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:07:08 -0500
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Laurentian University

	I think it is a great idea to create the new Newsgroup.  As
a biologist specializing in Fractal Image Analysis such a group would
greatly accelerate my research.


Michael Bardeggia
Biology Dept. Laurentian Univ.
Sudbury, Ontario
Canada

G1400050@nickel.laurentian.ca
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: albertw@netcom.com (Albert Wong)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 05:36:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
> 
>     Who cares!?
> 
>     You know, this is one of the biggest reasons why splitting
> rec.games.frp hasn't worked in the past. People seem to think that the
> name has some intrinsic value that is passed onto the group, when it is
> just a name. It should be chosen in such a manner that is logical and
> efficient. rec.arts.manga isn't efficient IMHO.

What's more efficient? rec.arts.comic.manga or just rec.arts.manga?
Should all the manga translations go under
rec.arts.comics.manga.translations?  It has the potential of being
very ineffecient.
 
And you mention that a name doesn't have any intrinsic value, so
what's wrong with rec.arts.manga?  It's just a name, ya know. ^_^
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+
| Albert Wong                                     |
| albertw@netcom.com                              |
+-------------------------------------------------+
| "Welcome to the Jusenkyo Spa and Resort Hotel!" |
+-------------------------------------------------+
From: tel1568@tamsun.tamu.edu (Thomas Edward Landrum)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  misc.jobs.offered.entrylevel
Summary: Yes
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:59:45 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station

Yes, but I think misc.jobs.entrylevel would be enough.

Tom Landrum
tel1568@tamsun.tamu.edu
From: thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:12:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44619
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Apr9.140702.12210@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU writes:
>
>ie: (to quote an already posted example)
>rec.honda is a dumb idea. rec.autos.honda makes sense. Does this say that
>Honda's are inferior to all other cars? No, it says that enough people
>want to discuss hondas and they want a place to do it apart from
>rec.autos.
>
>Get a grip and stop assuming that a practical suggestion is an insult to
>your ego.

     That does not say that Hondas are inferior to autos, but it does say
that Hondas are a TYPE of a larger group called autos.  My personal (I do
not know if another has the same argument or not) is that Mangas are
on the SAME level as comics, not a TYPE of comics.  I may even be tempted
to say that comics are a type of mangas, but no.

                                                         -TKH '92

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
      "Zu dem Tag wollte Ich zurueckkehren."  (emphasis on 'to that day')
      "Ich wollte zu dem Tag zurueckkehren."  (emphasis on 'want')
 "Ich wuenschte Ich koennte zu dem Tag zurueckkehren." (emphasis on 'wish')
                                                 -both KOR movie title.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky news.groups:10257 news.admin:3563
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Paerce)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin
Subject: Re: BENDING THE GUIDELINES IS BAD NEWS
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:32:09 GMT
h: s4mjsibobsbox.rent.com!rutgers!ub!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu.C

Message:ID: <4 Apr11.200324.27823@amhux2.amherst.edu>
Date: 11 Apr 2 20:03:24 GMT
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA
NgregnoPTsting-Host: amhux1.amherst.edu

In article <46
>Interesting poi kI wonder how easy it is to check for forged votes?

Here's an idea: ask them!  If your return mail bounces, or they say "I
don't know what you're talking about," obviously it was a forgery.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu "    /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald)
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:59:52 GMT

In article <axolotl.703384521@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au writes:
>geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner) writes:
> >The potential for lack of crossover in a hierarchy is a good thing. It
> >reduced crossposting and makes the whole hierarchy more efficient. If a
> >*.comics.manga group has NO crossposting to rec.arts.comics I think that
> >would make the whole group creation a success.
>
>If none of the traffic was relevant to comics, it means that the name of
>the group would be an incredible anomaly.

True.  That's not what Geoff hypothesized, though.

On the other hand, if, as Geoff suggested, none of the traffic was
shared with rec.arts.comics, then the group would be a rare example of
an ideally split hierarchy.  Those involved in debates on splits for
rec.music.misc or rec.arts.sf-lovers (as well as a few others) should
appreciate how difficult it is to get a division of a category that
splits the traffic this well, and how desirable it is for getting a
group through.

-David
--
============================================================================
David Wald                                           wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu
   "Blessed are the peacocks, for they shall be called sonship of God"
             -- Matt 5:9, from a faulty QuickVerse 2.0
============================================================================
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: rec.arts.comics.manga is anomalous and misleading.
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:52:15 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.203326.9375@daimi.aau.dk> rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen) writes:
>  If I was to buy some mange in this town (placed in non-english country)
>I would go down to shop called "comics".

Maybe where you are.  If I wanted to buy some manga here I would go to a
Japanese bookstore, (not that they're especially nearby), not a comic store.
--
This is a newer version of the memetic .signature infection.  Now that's an
idea.  Copy it into your .signature today!

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
From: rsk@aspen.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  misc.jobs.offered reorganization
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:07:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.73880
Organization: Cardiothoracic Imaging Research Center

In article <1992Apr13.181615.16879@uunet.uu.net> root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick) writes:
>REMOVE: misc.jobs.offered
>
>CREATE: misc.jobs.entry    = positions offered to entrylevel applicants
>        misc.jobs.expert   = positions offered to the experienced
>        misc.jobs.recruit  = positions offered by recruitment agents

I think all three groups are needed, but that the first two should be subgroups of
misc.jobs.offered.  We already see far too many postings in m.j.o. by people
who are looking for, not offering, jobs; unless the word "offer" (or some
variant) appears in the newsgroup name, I think it may get worse.

As far as the last one, misc.jobs.recruit, I not only think it should be
created, but I think that part of its charter should specify that it should
be the *only* newsgroup used by recruiters, i.e. that recruiters should stay
out of misc.jobs.{offered}.{entry,expert}.  Numerous polite requests to
recruiters to use the appropriate keywords on their "Subject" lines have
not resulted in adherence to the guidelines, so I think it's time to restrict
them to a separate group.
--

---Rsk
rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:15:55 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: jingoro

I would kindly suggest that all discussion relating to the subject
matter (noted above) be kept in news.groups as a courtesy gesture 
to the users of r.a.comics.  If you want them in the discussion,
kindly ask them to read news.groups.  Don't paraphrase the discussion
and keep the readers unaware of the full picture.  

I'm starting to believe that your making this into quite a
personal odessey, and I'm not sure that's necessary.

Again, if you want r.a.comics involved, fine.  Ask them over to
news.groups.  Paraphrasing, and posting where you feel people couldn't/
wouldn't respond, is verging on being underhanded.


--
Jun Kim                                         jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.Com
Sun Microsystems
Mountain View, CA                               "Oboete imasu ka..."
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:48:27 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume) writes:

>hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>>.... If there is enough support for this topic to warrant its creation
>>then the group should be names rec.arts.comics.manga. Personally I think
>>that if you want a mainstream discussion group Japanese comics then you
>>should be using rec.arts.comics since that is what the group is intended
>>for.

>There is logic to this.  {Well, maybe not the last sentence. :-) 
>[re: ... group Japanese ...]}

    So I don't type perfectly, so sue me ;->

>However, a precedent exists.  rec.arts.anime is not *.animation.anime.
>(And it shouldn't be.  It gets scores of posts a day.  It's been one
>of the busiest groups on the net for a long time now.)

    This is true, but it is also a mistake that will probably not be
fixed. The point I'm trying to get across here is what the appropriate
name for the group should be. Rec.arts.anime should have been named
something else, but that is beside the point, and should have no
influence on how this group is named.

>There is a closer relationship between anime and manga than between manga
>and comics. ["But they're similar mediums..."]  That matters less than the
>fact that anime fans are more prone to be manga fans than comics fans will
>be prone to be manga fans.

    Again, to the general reader of UseNet, a comic book is a comic book.

>I believe we should maintain this naming convention.
>(BTW: rec.arts.anime subscribers will be as resistant to changing the
>name of their newsgroup as rec.arts.comics subscribers will. :-) )

    What does any of this have to do with rec.arts.comics subscribers
changing the name of their newsgoup? I was talking about the creation of
a new separate group that is called rec.arts.comics.manga.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | "When you get right down do it there is only
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   |  one thing that matters here...
 Mac Database Developer     |                       I Have Mob Ties!"
 Dartmouth Medical School   |      -Mario Cuomo (played by Phil Hartman)
From: tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Tonghyun Kim)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:42:39 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <3934@airs.com> ian@airs.com (Ian Lance Taylor) writes:
>axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:
>
>rec.arts.comics.manga implies that manga are a subset of comics.  Show
						^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>me a manga that is not a comic, remembering that the term ``comic''
>encompasses everything listed above as well as comic strips and
>political cartoons.  Please be specific, rather than simply saying
>``manga are different.''
>

The word "manga" has broader usage than "comic" (in other words, 
the definition of "manga" is VERY LOOSE). Most people in
Japan and Korea (I'm not so sure about Taiwan and other Chinese
countries) refer both comics ("printed" manga) and anime/animation
as "manga". To them, X-Men, Little Mermaid, AKIRA, Sandman, etc
are all "manga (manhwa)". And "manga" also includes comic strips and
polutical cartoons as well. 

If we have to put manga (*printed*) newsgroup under rec.arts.comics,
the proper name should be rec.arts.comics.ASIAN rather than
rec.arts.comics.manga. In that way we won't have anyone thinking
rec.arts.comics.manga is a newsgroup for discussion about comics
on tropical fruits. :-)

To be frank, I'm on rec.arts.manga side since I want new newsgroup
to cover ALL aspects of manga and manga-related recreational arts.


Tonghyun "Vajra" Kim
tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gritton@alaska.caedm.byu.edu (Jamie Gritton)
Subject: Spaf's Official List (was: 2nd RFD: SCIA...)
Lines: 13
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 11:18:59 MDT
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
	<1992Apr7.133125.10521@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
	<1992Apr10.002953.24326@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
	<1992Apr17.155252.5494@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: gritton@byu.edu

hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:

>    I would like to point out that any group not listed in Spaf's
>listing of official groups is an unofficial group. Thus your vote must
>be considered to be invalid because s.c.i.a doesn't currently appear on
>Spaf's list. Any questions?

   How official is this list? I know that Gene Spafford is a name that carries
a lot of weight, but is the list really an integral part of Usenet, or is it
just one (respected) man's opinion?

--
James Gritton - gritton@byu.edu - I disclaim
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA (A violation of net guidelines)
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:24:14 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amos Tuck School

In <1992Apr10.002953.24326@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>First the vote has not been officially invalidated.

It doesn't have to be! The number of sites refusing to carry SCIA is
growing steadily. A group with no distribution is no group at all. The
people who wield the real power on UseNet, the system admins, are making
it clear that your vote was improper and un-acceptable.

That is as official an invalidation as you'll get on UseNet.

>Second, the RFD was certainly valid and six months have not expired
>since the last RFD. That is where the violation of the guidelines has
>occured.

You just don't get it, do you? Maybe two wrongs don't make a right in an
ideal world but I personally have NO objection to any attempt to salvage
SCIA from your actions. If that menas we have to bed the quidelines, fine.
Personally, I don't think we are, but that isn't that point.

What is the point is this: you are the last person to sign on as a
Defender of the Net Guidelines. You should stop posting all-together and
just shut up. And take your worthless Straw Poll with you.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU  -  Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business

	"Don't believe the hype!"
		-Public Enemy
From: thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Date: 9 Apr 92 07:56:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44582
Organization: Purdue University


     Maybe I got it wrong, but the discussion over "rec.arts.comics.manga"
seemed to have created  a thought of "rec.arts.anime.animation" in my
mind.  If it should be rec.arts.comics.manga, then why was it not
rec.arts.anime.animation for the animation newsgroup?  It did came
after the anime newsgroup in terms of charter time.  ne? :-) :-)  Just a 
thought. 

                                                      -TKH '92

Vote "yes" for what ever that came out, otherwise we will have to
live with the limited distributed "alt.manga" for a LONG LONG time!!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
      "Zu dem Tag wollte Ich zurueckkehren."  (emphasis on 'to that day')
      "Ich wollte zu dem Tag zurueckkehren."  (emphasis on 'want')
 "Ich wuenschte Ich koennte zu dem Tag zurueckkehren." (emphasis on 'wish')
                                                 -both KOR movie title.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.enya
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 04:39:25 GMT

In <frnk.702773186@cs1.bradley.edu> frnk@cs1.bradley.edu (Paul Ondercin) writes:
>   I have recieved more 'yes' mail than I have seen 'no' posts.

Yup.  So?  Why don't these people come out of the closets and support you
publically?  Why do you assume that everyone who thinks this is stupid will
post?
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu
    AHA!  I'll bounce off that broad, flat surface and be in a lot of pain!
From: hurtta@cs.Helsinki.FI (Kari E. Hurtta)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.games.mud.{tiny,diku,announce}
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:17:58 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Helsinki, Finland

In article <45184@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> jk@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Happiness and Light) wrote:
> This analysis, in my opinion, might support the creation of an admin group,
> and might support the creation of a social group, and DOES support the
> creation of rec.games.mud.announce, moderated.  As for rec.games.mud.diku
> or .mush, could it hurt to create more newsgroups?  I don't really care :)
> rec.games.mud.bruce does seem to be called for... but the highest amount
> of traffic on rec.games.mud is still about lpmuds. 

I think, that there is enough newsgroup (I just counted that in
.newsrc have 1946 groups - help). I think that it hurt to create
much more newsgroups without good reason. So I oppose create
groups for .tiny, .diku and .mush.

- K E H
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.cd,rec.music.misc
From: rshapiro@arris.com (Richard Shapiro)
Subject: rec.music.cd -> rec.collecting.cd (was: removal of rec.music.cd)
Organization: ARRIS Pharmaceutical, South San Francisco, CA
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 92 16:08:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr2.205047.8210@mprgate.mpr.ca> jakubec@mprgate.mpr.ca (Trent J Jakubec) writes:
>I agree.  The group should be removed.

Or at least be drastically reconstituted. See below.

>Any material that would still fit in there would be hardware related and I
>think there already is a group for that.

Actually two of them: rec.audio and rec.audio.high-end. These are the
appropriate groups for articles about digital audio technology (cd or
otherwise). As already pointed out, music articles are most
effectively posted (or cross-posted) to the relevant genre group(s):
r.m.misc, r.m.bluenote, r.m.dylan, or whatever. Using r.m.cd for
either of these is pointless at best (since cross-posting becomes
essential) and confusing at worst (since the boundaries are so vague). 

But that doesn't *quite* cover all the topics now being discussed in
r.m.cd. In particular, the cd club articles and the debates over cd
packaging do not fit anywhere else. Therefore, it seems that the group
should be remade into one that's specifically oriented towards topics
such as these -- the cd as a collectible commodity. Since these have
nothing whatever to do with music, this new group clearly doesn't
belong in the rec.music hierarchy. The obvious choice is to put it
under rec.collecting.

Therefore, I would propose that rec.music.cd be renamed
rec.collecting.cd. This will end any confusion, cut down a lot of
pointless cross-posting and eliminate the anomoly of a music group
that's not about really about music (except insofar as it acts as a
smaller, surrogate r.m.misc).
Newsgroups: news.groups