HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joris@thor.albany.edu (Pierre Joris)
Subject: Norman sings Satie?
Originator: joris@thor.albany.edu
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 16:46:37 GMT


	A friend recently mentioned that some (or a long) time ago
Jessie Norman recorded some Eric Satie songs. Does anybody know this
recording &/or whether it is still available? Thanks for any info.

Pierre Joris
From: inr@deimos.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: re: Furtwaengler on Toscanini
Date: 29 Dec 1992 09:02 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: deimos.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

 A fascinating letter - good to know that Furtwaengler was just
as arrogant and backbiting as Toscanini could be. And, of 
course, only the Germans could play Beethoven & Brahms (and
how strange to find Berlioz in that camp too, although his
(Berlioz) expeditions to germany were rather more satisfying, from what
I recall, than his French concerts). 
 Having explored more of Furtwaengler's performances, I still
find him unsatisfying as a recorded artist - sometimes he can
produce astounding results - best example is the 1st movement of the
EMI Pastoral, which is taken at about half the normal tempo, but
which is held together. Only problem is, the rest of the 
symphony sounds like an anti-climax. I think Beethoven knew what
he was doing here. .A fascinating conductor
to see live, perhaps, but a very idiosyncratic version of Beethoven.

(Ducks behind protective asbestos anti-WF shield, secure in the
knowledge that he's computerless for at least 2 weeks).

Neill Reid - inr@eccles.caltech.edu
From: hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Hal Prentice)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Rachmaninoff's "VESPERS"
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:41:01 GMT
Organization: Broadcasting Services, Michigan State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: prentice.wkar.msu.edu

In article <BzMAqz.Mzo@acsu.buffalo.edu> UCSBILLB@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (William H Baumer) writes:
>From: UCSBILLB@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (William H Baumer)
>Subject: Re: Rachmaninoff's "VESPERS"
>Date: 21 Dec 92 16:16:23 GMT
>In article <18750@mindlink.bc.ca>
>Nation@mindlink.bc.ca (Brian Nation) writes:
> 
>>
>>Several years ago I heard a recording of Vespers that was absolutely
>>astounding. I don't recall the performers, but I believe it was a Russian
>>chorus. I've been looking for a CD and recently have noticed several versions
>>available. Any recommendations?

The best (IMHO) performance of Vespers is one issued by Melodiya many years 
ago that has finally been reissued on CD.  After hearing this one, all 
others are not quite measure up.  Rachmaninoff Vespers with the USSR State 
Russian Choir conducted by Alexander Sveshnikov - Melodiya MEL CD 1000601 
distributed in the US by Koch International, 177 Cantiaque Rock Rd, 
Westbury, NY 11590 (516) 938-8080.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hal Prentice, FM Program Manager      Michigan State University
WKAR-FM, 283 Communication Arts Bldg  East Lansing, MI 48824-1212 USA
Internet: hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu      Bitnet: hal@radio.wkar.bitnet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jwenger@ulci06.unil.ch ()
Subject: Saxophone, use of -
Reply-To: jwenger@ulci06.unil.ch ()
Organization: University of Lausanne - CH (Switzerland)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 09:52:12 GMT


Dear net.folks,

Friends and I were chating about music in general, and saxophones in
particular. No one could mention a piece of classical music, orchestral,
chamber or other, where one or more sax were used. Can you?
I'll post the consolidated list of your answers, as soon as I get something
publishable.
Thanks in advance, a merry Xmas and happy Newyear to all.

					Jacques

-----------------
Jacques C. Wenger, University of Lausanne
jwenger@ulys.unil.ch / jwenger@ulci06.unil.ch
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cs748ab@maccs.mcmaster.ca (Andrew Fung)
Subject: Re: Greatest living conductors
Keywords: Kleiber 
Organization: Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, McMaster University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:20:39 GMT

Jose R. Fernandez wrote:
 
>Inspired by the recent thread about greatest living pianists, I
>propose another thread on the "greatest living conductors."  So,
>who do you think are the greatest living (or recently died) 
>conductors?  I nominate the following for the top tier:
>
>*Karajan, Solti, Giulini, and *Bernstein
>(additional possibilities being Abbado, Haitink, and Maazel)
>(*-died recently)

For me, other than Karajan and Bernstein, Carlos Kleiber is 
the greatest living conductor. Although he has a limited 
repertoire, any concert or recording conducted by him is an 
event. No one else nowadays can surpass what he can achieve in an 
orchestra. One incident can prove his ability. When Karajan 
wanted to retire from BPO, he first wanted Kleiber to succeed 
his place. Who else do you think can?
 
Andrew Fung
Dept. of Elec. & Comp. Engineering

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Subject: Re: Furtwaengler on Toscanini
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:23:39 GMT

In article <Dec.30.11.30.37.1992.15011@math.rutgers.edu> bwalsh@math.rutgers.edu (Bertram Walsh) writes:
>
>>>Bizet Arlesienne Suite and the like are yet the best of the kind
>>>(Berlioz belongs to the German history of music in so far as he is
>>>symphonist in earnest).
>
>>If it's good, it must be German, even if it's not.
>
>Don't forget Berlioz's assertion that he had taken up music where
>Beethoven left it.  He asked to be numbered with the Germans when he
>said that.  And notice the qualifying clause.  

Even with the qualifying clause, I am not convinced that Berlioz thought
of himself as a German symphonist. I love Berlioz for his disheveled 
bombast, and I find it somewhat un-German :-) 

On the other hand, pulling Berlioz out of the German ranks doesn't make
him Mediterranean anyway: we French are neither here nor there :-)

On the "racial slur": it's not racial, and it is part of a well-loved game
of throwing stereotypes at each other, in Europe. It is a dangerous game,
but it can be practiced safely when it is recognized as such. I personally
don't think that distinguishing between Southern European (Italian) and
Northern European (German) music is unwarranted; and I am willing to believe
that artists may have specific affinities with one or the other, and that
this affinity may derive from national origin.  It is obviously impossible
to generalize, or to say that no Italian can conduct/play/sing German music:
the counter-examples are too numerous in any event.

-- 

	Francois Velde

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: syliao@athena.mit.edu (Stan Yi-Huang Liao)
Subject: Re: Greatest living conductors
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:15:42 GMT

hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
>  As for Abbado, I love his Mahler's 3rd, 6th, and 7th, and he is
>usually a
>safe conductor -
>
>   However.....
>
>  Don't come near his DG recording of Beethoven's 6th symphony!!!!
>
>  This is the worst CD I own, in the sense of being made by a good
>conductor.
>It is heartless, cold, and empty - yuckkkk!!!
>
>Does anyone have a good recommend for this piece?
>
>Mike

Karl Boehm with VPO on DG is definitely the one to get.  It's coupled
with the 9th symphony on a 2-disc set.

Stan

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rodean@fc.hp.com (Bruce Rodean)
Subject: Abbado (was: Ozawa)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:42:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

Don Pajerek (pajerek@telstar.kodak.com) wrote:
> [stuff deleted regarding Ozawa]
> The same, however, can be said of many of today's prominent conductors.
> Very little of, say, Abbado's work is really exceptional.

I think that Abbado's Schubert symphonies set with the Chamber Orchestra
of Europe is simply outstanding.  I don't have all of them, but most of
all, the 9th is out of this world.  I also just completed my set of
Brahms symphonies with him and the Berlin PO by getting one as a
Christmas gift.  I think very highly of them, although reviews I've read
are love/hate type things.  Either they gush all over them or they trash
them completely.

--
Bruce Rodean                          Hewlett-Packard Company
rodean@fc.hp.com
From: dione@argus.lpl.Arizona.EDU (Matt Cheselka)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: favorite organ work
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:03:06 GMT
Organization: Lunar and Planetary Lab, U of AZ

It's gotta be Bach's Tocatta in D minor...especially the second part after the
all-too-famailiar beginning.  The finger work is extraordinary!

Peace,

Matt Cheselka


--
***************************************************
*   Matt Cheselka                                 *
*      "My country is the world and               *
*       my religion is to do good" - Thomas Paine *
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Berg
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 06:16:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.173348.9371@viewlogic.com> brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:
>mesmerized by) a recording of Wozzeck. The nighttime scene in the barracks
>is really astonishing. The effect Berg gets with the chorus doing a sotto
>voce representation of the soldiers sleeping, while Wozzeck lies awake and
>starts a plaintive lament, is transfixing.

>Of course, the music is not exactly melodic in the old fashioned sense,
>with Berg following the 12 tone model. 

Say what?   Are you *sure* you've been listening to Wozzeck?  Much of 
the music *is* melodious (expressly intended that way) and there are 
no tone-rows in the piece, which is not surprising, given that Berg
composed it before Schoenberg had shared any of his 12-tone ideas with
anyone.

>But if Schoenberg doesn't frighten you, neither should Berg.

That should read: even if Schoenberg frightens you, Berg shouldn't.
Berg is much easier to listen to.

Roger
From: misha@CS.HUJI.AC.IL (Michael Pak)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Beethoven's late quartets
Date: 30 Dec 1992 17:00:11 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I strongly recommend the Lindsay Quartet performance of the Late Quartets.
The may not be as brilliant as the Alban Bergs, but in my opinion their 
insight into the score is much deeper, and moving than any other performace
I've ever heard.
Misha.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: shostakovich/Mravinsky was Re: Shostakovich symphony recommendations
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:46:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.173727.10266@fid.morgan.com> apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.014154.25017@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>
>Shostakovich/Leningrad Symphony Orchestra/Mravinsky:
	      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>

Who they are, I do not know.  That should read "Leningrad Philharmonic 
Orchestra".


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bryan@netcom.com (Bryan Higgins)
Subject: Re: Messiaen Favorites (not Turangalila)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 06:56:31 GMT


Does anyone have a recording of Les Offrandes Oubliees?  I played this piece
in an orchestra and it's haunted me since.  I went looking for a recording,
but the only one I found was an expensive import that also included Mahler's
Totenfeier and a very long piece by the conductor on the recording, and I
decided not to take the risk.
-- 
Bryan Higgins, Berkeley, California  (bryan@netcom.com)
From: inr@deimos.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: re: Most drawn-out endings
Date: 27 Dec 1992 12:54 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: deimos.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

 Has to be Beethoven's Overture Leonore no. 4 for orchestra, touring
band and many trumpets -  or maybe Haydn's OP. 76 quartet that  opens
the last movement with the standard final cadence. 

 Neill Reid - inr@eccles.caltech.edu

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Most drawn-out endings
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:15:12 GMT

tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon) writes:
| In article 27DEC199212540329@deimos.caltech.edu, inr@deimos.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid) writes:
| >  Has to be Beethoven's Overture Leonore no.4
| 
| Indeed, a very drawn-out ending, since it was never begun :-) (There are
| only 3 Leonores -- the "fourth" would be the Fidelio Overture, which is
| actually quite compact).

Well, it helps if you know that Beethoven's Leonore no. 4 isn't by
Beethoven.

My copy of the Hoffnung recording doesn't list the decomposer, but it
does involve a band of buskers, who play the Leonore theme offstage at
inappropriate times, the piccolo smuggling in the tune "Hayseeds", and a
prolonged injoke about the fanfare, which is eventually resolved by the
entire Royal Military School of Music trumpet section, not in unison.

Well worth a listen or two.
-- 
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Shine out, fair sun, with all your heat!  Black winter freezes to his seat...
The boneless fish close quaking lies...the stars in icicles arise!
From: tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Most drawn-out endings
Date: 28 Dec 92 03:45:20 GMT
Reply-To: tony@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University

In article 27DEC199212540329@deimos.caltech.edu, inr@deimos.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid) writes:
>  Has to be Beethoven's Overture Leonore no.4

Indeed, a very drawn-out ending, since it was never begun :-) (There are
only 3 Leonores -- the "fourth" would be the Fidelio Overture, which is
actually quite compact).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------					Tony Movshon

Internet:  movshon@nyu.edu		Howard Hughes Medical Institute
					Center for Neural Science
					New York University
Phone:	   (212) 998-7880		4 Washington Place, room 809
Fax:	   (212) 995-4183		New York, NY 10003
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Subject: Re: Brendel and Szeryng play Schoenberg and Berg
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 02:08:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.013423.4254@cs.wayne.edu> atems@igor.physics.wayne.edu (Dale Atems) writes:
>The other day I ran across a recording of the Schoenberg Piano and
>Violin Concerti and the Berg Violin Concerto. The soloists were Brendel
>and Szeryng, I don't recall the orchestra or conductor. It was on DG.
>Does anyone know these performances? Any opinions would be appreciated.

I have it, but I would recommend Chung/Solti CSO for the Berg, and
Serkin/Boulez London for the Schoenbergs.  There just seems to be a more
subtle element in the phrasing on the ones I recommend.

Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: Re: Greatest Conductors: Why?
Organization: Visual
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 12:33:51 GMT

Brian Haag writes:

> I would
>say that Bernstein ranks as one of my favorite conductors for those moments
>when he creates an incredible electricity. 

And I'd say I agree entirely.  Your caveat, naming "those moments when
he creates an incredible electricity," is a wise on.  But I can honestly
say that, to me, those "incredible moments" make it worth sifting through
some of those times when his approach misses the mark.  When he's on-target,
he's really "on".  

I've raved elsewhere about his last Tchaikovsky Sixth on DG.  Last night
I saw it in a used-CD store for $4.99 and grabbed it -- a perfect gift for
one of those friends of mine who've borrowed my copy and fallen in love
with it (one said he wept openly during the first movement -- and this
is one tough dude!  Now if I can ever get the damned thing back from
him and his roommate....)  

Reportedly, another major triumph is the Sibelius First on DG.  I've
got some good intelligence that this will be waiting for me under the
tree on Christmas morning, and I'm looking forward to it, you can believe.

His recording of the Copland Clarinet Concerto on DG is also transcendently
magical.  As are the Ives Second, the Copland Third, the Mahler Fifth,
Mahler First, and on and on....  Someday I hope to indulge myself with
his BSO Mahler Ninth.  I first have to be able to justify owning a third
copy of that work, though.

There are occasional misses, too, like the DG Sibelius Second -- that 
just didn't jell for me.  But you and I definitely agree on one thing: he
seemed to enjoy an amazing renaissance toward the end of his life. 
Perhaps as he felt the years ebbing away, he felt free to break away
from the commonplace and venture into uncharted depths.   Perhaps, too,
(like I read somewhere) his last years found him accepting himself with
more honesty and clarity than ever before, leading to insights in other
arenas.  How generous of him to share this bounty with us through the
music he loved most.  What a wonderful legacy!

Rob



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Saxophone, use of -
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:38:35 GMT

jwenger@ulci06.unil.ch () writes:
| 
| Friends and I were chating about music in general, and saxophones in
| particular. No one could mention a piece of classical music, orchestral,
| chamber or other, where one or more sax were used. Can you?

Who keeps the archives of this group? :-)  (including unkind comments by
Walter Piston, and an argument between me and JAC on the use of the
instrument in...)

Britten: Sinfonia da Requiem, Billy Budd
Ravel: Bolro, as well as the Pictures already mentioned
Bizet: seemed to like the sax, especially L'Arlsienne
Vaughan Williams: Symphony #8 (a full set of 3)
Bernstein: several, nice solo in On The Town
Walton: Faade (small chamber group)

And works like Rhapsody in Blue (the small-orchestra version), and
probably numerous "modern" pieces.

Piston's ill-tempered dismissal is due to the alleged difficulty of
making the instrument blend with the rest of the orchestra.  It's safest
to write solos for it.  My argument with Jon stemmed from the bad
balance *I've* always heard in the first movement of the Britten and the
Pastorale from the Bizet.
-- 
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Shine out, fair sun, with all your heat!  Black winter freezes to his seat...
The boneless fish close quaking lies...the stars in icicles arise!
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 22 Dec 1992 15:25:11 CST
From: ros <U52538@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Rachmaninov's Vespers

Just to clear up a point, the titles "Vespers" and "All Night Vigil" have
become interchangeable in the English translation.  As for the recording of
the work with the USSR State Choir i will agree that it is lovely, even though
my first hearing of it was on LP.  Yet another wonderful recording (which i got
because my mentor sings in the choir) is Robert Shaw's.  The tenor solo in
two of the movements leaves a bit to be desired, but the choral parts are
vintage Shaw.
                                         -ros
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: atems@igor.physics.wayne.edu (Dale Atems)
Subject: Re: Most drawn-out ending (Was: Best endings)
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:53:51 GMT

Just thought I'd toss in another nomination for most drawn-out ending:
Robert Simpson's 6th symphony. The entire "finale" sounds like one long coda.
When the coda finally comes you know it, but it still takes forever to
wrap up.

------
Dale Atems
Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Department of Physics and Astronomy
atems@igor.physics.wayne.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: atems@igor.physics.wayne.edu (Dale Atems)
Subject: Re: Berg
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:35:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.062211.21627@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>b) There's no key signature in the first movement of the Jupiter Symphony.

Oh sure there is. Can't you see it?  :-)

------
Dale Atems
Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Department of Physics and Astronomy
atems@igor.physics.wayne.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwilmer@carrier.mitre.org (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: HELP: music quiz
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:09:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.000824.18082@csis.dit.csiro.au> tsui@csis.dit.csiro.au (Kenneth Tsui) writes:
>
>
>
>I need help to answer the following for a music quiz. Some of the questions
>are quite interesting. I'll post the answers when they come out in Feburary.
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>1. In what opera is there a character Sportin' Life?

Porgy and Bess
>
>4. Who wrote a mouvement symphonique entitled `Rugby'?

Hindemith
>
>6. In what opera does a man have his brother put to death?

Il Trovatore
>
>
>13. Which composer was killed
>    (a) in a bicycle accident?

Ernest Chausson
>
>
>16. THE Barber of Seville, The Marriage of Figaro ... what is the third in
>    the sequence, and who set it as an opera?

The Opera is Cherubin by Massenet.  Is the play La Rencontre Imprevue?
>
>17. What operas are set in : (a) Allemonde
              
Debussy's Pelleas et Mellisande
>                             (b) Crete

Mozart's Idomeneo
>                             (c) Sicily

Verdi's Les Vepres Siciliennes
and Bellini's Il Pirata
>                             (d) the Moon?

Orff's Der Mond?
>
>
>19.
>    (b) Which famous librettist ran a distillery in New York and a milliner's
>    shop in Philadelphia?

Lorenzo da Ponte?  He was a real-life Figaro.
>
>20. Which castrato:
>    (a) sang the same song every evening to charm the King of Spain?

I don't know, but I suppose the king's apparent short memory span was
another example of Spanish Hapsburg feeblemindedness caused by inbreeding.

>21. Name the links: (a) Lark and Frog
    Aristophanes?  L'enfant et les Sortileges?
>                    (b) Lark and Wasps
    Someone gets stung by a wasp in Suor Angelica.  Is there a lark there too?
>                    (c) Chost and Harp
    Do you mean ghost?  Lucia di Lammermoor enters to a harp accompaniment
and sings of a ghost.
>
>
>24.
>    (b) Which director of the Paris Conservatoire is said to have travelled in
>        on the Metro, got out a stop early, and taken a taxi, to keep up
>        appearances?

I don't know, but I have done that same thing because of absent-mindedly
getting off at the wrong Metro stop, and then taking a taxi to avoid
being late (or even later).  As I remember, you could get off at
``Place d'Europe'' or ``Gare St. Lazare'' for the Paris Conservatoire.

>
>25. Of which (then young) French composer did Berlioz say: `He knows everything,
>    but lacks inexperience'?
>

It certainly would have been true of Saint-Saens, once he got past
his fourth birthday.

Richard


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical