HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: Shaka Zulu?
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 17:06:37 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

poam@giraffe.ru.ac.za (AK MARQUARD) writes:
 
: (also, in terms of gavan's comments, the mfecane is only supposed to have 
: happened in the 1820's to 40's by which time there were many raids on the 
: interior - the portuguese had also been slaving along the east coast, 
: possibly as far as durban, for about 3/4 of a century - see similar 
: disruptive effects on social formations on west coast)

Come come now. We all know Julian Cobbing's nonsense about the Mfecane,
all the rage in some quarters right now. I'd love to take the chance to
flay it apart.

Let me quote Jeff Peires on Cobbing, rather my recollection of a quote,
"at best a fantasy, at worst a fabrication".

The old theory is rather more accurate. Th eslave trading stuff is invariably
nonsense surmised from inadequate evidence with sleight of hand, nor is there
any demonstration of connections between white influence (marginal at most)
and the Mfecane, just improbable surmise. I've read Cobbing's stuff in great
detail. It's fun stuff.

Read Chris saunder's review of the Mfecane conferenc elast year in Social 
Dynamics, Dec 1991.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:32 PDT
Subject: Houston raises 0,000 for Somalia
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471700183:000:1178
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Oct 13 17:32:00 1992


From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse>
Subject: Houston raises 0,000 for Somalia

/* Written  5:04 pm  Oct 13, 1992 by AFRICA-L@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU in cdp:bitl.africa */
/* ---------- "Houston raises $50,000 for Somalia" ---------- */
Reply-To: "FORUM PAN-AFRICA (Peer Distribution List)"              <AFRICA-L@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse>
Subject:      Houston raises $50,000 for Somalia

The Somalian Relief Association in Houston held a dinner for the
Houston Islamic Community on October 3 and raised $50,000 for the
International Committee for the Red Cross.

The Public Relations Officer, Shamsa Ali, said she thought they got
so much money because they had a very "compelling video."  Sure
sounds like it was compelling.  I'm sending her some shipping-and-handling
money plus leftover as donation ($5) and a tape to get a copy.\

Others may want to do the same.

Her phone number is 713-558-7440
OTHER RELATIVELY GOOD NEWS

Doctors Without Borders confirmed on the phone today the "cautious
optimism" if the International Red Cross.  They said things are better
because of increased supplies and increasing aid.


They will be holding a press conference November 23.
From: llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius)
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Clark: 'Journey to Hell'
Organization: Department of Mathematics
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:33:02 GMT

I just heard that one Gen. "Morgan" - the son in-law of former Somalia
president Siad Barre- has captured Badera from Gen. Aidid's forces.
I really wonder about these warlords in Somalia. Seems like all the 
care for is compete to see who has the most territory and don't care
about the suffering civilians. It would help if the "financiers" of
the varius groups exerted some pressure on these groups simultaneously
and publicly to stop all this feuding and let the aid agencies and others
feed the people...

--
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius)
Subject: Re: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Organization: Department of Mathematics
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:55:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.162908.14807@frcs.Alt.ZA> linda@frcs.Alt.ZA (Linda Jacobson) writes:

>By the bye - looks as though Savimbi isn't accepting defeat. I suppose
>the US govt will support him through this one too?
>
>Linda
> 
>       
He seems to be doing some flip-flops, along with his military and other officianados...no doubt due to pressure from his friends in high places - i.e. the
ones with the keys to the purse...

--
lk(with the man in the yellow hat)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: 92kmotorka@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Games of African Origin
Date: 10 Oct 92 17:44:29 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University


Perhaps this isn't exactly the type of topic that is tossed around here 
much, but I am rather interested in games that originated in Africa,
mainly games incorporating stones, "board" games if you will, such as
mankala/oware, etc.  If you know where I might get some information on
such games, and--ideally--any sources that might have computerized
implementations of these games, I would very much like to hear from you.
Do you have a favorite game in this category?

Chris Kmotorka
812 Sprau Tower
Dept. of English
Western Michigan University
Kalamazoo  MI  49002

92kmotorka@gw.wmich.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:5285 sanet.talk.politics:84
From: cscoging@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Chris Scogings)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Illegitimate government in South Africa
Date: 15 Oct 92 07:46:11 GMT
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, UNP
NNTP-Posting-Host: pc092.cc.unp.ac.za

I am interested in several terms used in some of the articles posted here.

One is that the SA government is "illegitimate".

It is certainly oppressive and non-representative but I was wondering why
it is "illegitimate".  Presumably because most of the country's people had
no say in its election.  Are the governments of several other African 
nations - those that were installed by coups, for instance, - "illegitimate"?

Another interesting term is "regim".  (Is there a spelling variation?)

This is used as in "the De Klerk regim" or "the racist regim".
The second usage implies that the word itself does not mean racist.
Perhaps it means oppressive government?
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: IPS: ZAIRE: U.S. urges Mobutu to transfer all powers /RELATE/
Originator: barnhart@gagme
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:11:37 GMT

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Reference: North America
Title: ZAIRE: U.S. urges Mobutu to transfer all powers /RELATE/


/att. editors: please relate the following to 'zaire: u.s. backs
tshisekedi and national conference' moved from washington/

washington, oct 7 (ips) -- the u.s. state department called
wednesday for president mobutu sese seko of zaire to ''turn over
all functions of government'' to a transitional authority headed
by prime minister etienne tshisekedi.

it was the first time washington has called on the leader of
zaire, a close u.s. ally since he seized the presidency in 1965,
to give up all his powers.

''mobutu remains president,'' spokesperson phyllis young told
ips. ''but we believe he should turn over all functions of
government to the transitional government, including control over
key appointments''.

the statement came amid growing frustration here with mobutu's
apparent refusal to recognise appointments made by tshisekedi and
the sovereign national conference (snc) which elected the prime
minister over mobutu's objections last summer.

washington, france, and belgium have also grown increasingly
concerned about ethnic fighting over the past several weeks in
mineral-rich shaba province in the south which, according to the
state department, has taken ''scores of lives'' and displaced some
40,000 people.

young told ips that washington believes ''some provincial and
national leaders'' have been provoking ethnic animosity in the
province -- the site of numerous uprisings against the central
government in kinshasa since the country's independence in 1960.

like france and belgium, the united states has cut off all aid
to the zairian government to press mobutu to accept a transition
to a democratic state.

despite urgings from its european allies and influential
lawmakers in congress, however, washington has declined to call
for mobutu to step down, arguing that the zairian leader is likely
to cause more trouble for his successors if he is forced to leave
against his will.

but some u.s. officials have confided that washington's
reluctance to call explicitly for mobutu's ouster during the past
year of political crisis and economic collapse has been due more
to president george bush's ''sense of loyalty'' to a staunch ally
during the cold war. (more/ips)

zaire: u.s. urges mobutu to transfer all powers /relate/(2-e)

zaire: u.s. urges mobutu (2)

most recently, mobutu permitted the central intelligence agency
(cia), which many historians believe played a key role in mobutu's
rise to power in the early 1960s, to use zairian bases to supply
the angolan rebel group, unita (national union for the total
independence for angola), during its war against the luanda
government. (end/ips/ip/jl/yjc/92)
From: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Date: 6 Oct 92 04:56:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: catpe.2543.2AD1D7A4
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/22.5 - Novell User Group, Pretoria RSA

On <04 Oct 1992 10:45> Paul M Mweene said to All :

 PMM>35%. Our last prayer, of course, is that the upright and 
 PMM>courageous people 
 PMM>of this great province of Africa will give their party, MPLA, 
 PMM>the 66% absolute
 PMM>majority. With this MPLA would proceed to legislate the 
 PMM>disgraceful UNITA
 PMM>movement out of existence.

Why?

So that they can have another 30 years of civil war?

In 1950 the South African government legislated the Communist Party our of 
existence.

In 1960 it legislated the ANC and PAC out of existence.

They did not cease to exist. 




--  
INTERNET: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
From: yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Angola: See what Savimbi is up to now (was Re: Great Victory in
Date: 10 Oct 92 21:58:14 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <7122@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
>Please show me one liberation movement in Southern Africa that was ever funded
>by the west so that it effectively waged a millitary campaigfn against a colo
>nial power. Your statements are as incredible and they are naive. How could
>anyone ever equate the role the USSR played in the liberation of our subconti
>nent to the role of the imperial powers.

How much did the MPLA get from Gulf Oil? 

>
>You are impossible to understand. Are you implying that the events in Southern
>Africa occured in a haphazard manner, that in one instance the west would play
>oppressor and in another liberator, with the Soviets taking the opposite side each time? This is logic bears little relation to relity, unfortunately. The even
>ts in southern Africa proceeded logically. The west each and every time conspireto exploit and oppress southern Africa. The communist countries for altruist or
>other reasons consistently stood on the right side. It was becuase of their
>unflinching support that the likes of Zimbabwe are now counted among the free.

Remember when the Soviets and the US suddenly switched sides in the 
Ethiopia/Somali dispute?  Anyone who believes that any countries act for
"altruistic reasons" should read a little history.

>onflict cannot occur for a different reason somewhere else. Perhaps the only 
>lesson lesson we can learn form the Nigerian conflict is that war is bad. But
>Savimbi might be teaching us that the alternative can be worse.....

Easy to say from Pittsburg. 

-- 


yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: dmorse@igc.apc.org (Dorothy Morse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: White Deer Speaks on Somalia
Date: 8 Oct 92 01:10:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471700178:000:2319
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Oct  7 18:10:00 1992


Gary White Deer is a Choctaw artist whose design appears on a t-shirt
commemorating the Choctaw Trail of Tears.  The Irish group AFRI (Action
from Ireland) who recently walked the Trail of Tears with a group of
Choctaws, asked to use the t-shirt to commemorate their walk also.

This walk, as noted in previous posts, took place because the Choctaw
Nation, in 1847, hearing of the Irish potato famine, took up a collection,
and although the Choctaws were in great need at the time (they had
walked the Trail of Tears only 16 years before), the Choctaws collected
$710 for the Irish.

The walk together took place from mid-September to October 3, 1992.  Here is
a letter written by Gary White Deer about his design, and the walk, which
was used to collect funds for the relief of the Somalian famine.


     LETTER FROM GARY WHITE DEER TO DON MULLAN OF AFRI


Don:

     I am honored that your oranization will use my little Choctaw painting
as a t-shirt design to help relieve the Somalian famine...

     Hunger is no respecter of nations.  When my people were forced from 
their homelands by the American government, much of the massive loss of
Choctaw life was due to hunger... A few years afterward we took notice when
the Irish People were suffering from terrible famine, and although we had not 
yet recovered from our Trail of Tears, we sent your people sustenance.  Thus
a bond was made between the Irish and Choctaw Nations, woven of a measure
of human history and of human spirit.  We must again invoke a measure
of that spirit.

     Among the Choctaw it is important that our guests are asked,
"Impa chi bana?" or "Do you want to eat?"  We are taught that to feed others
is to help sustain human life....We further believe that our human spirits
also need to be fed, and that this may be done through sharing.  In the
sharing of food, therefore, sharer and receiver obtain both these kinds
of nourishment.  This is an old and simple teaching.

     As I mentioned, my mother is part Irish.  It will be a great and
wonderful thing if we reaffirm the bond between our two peoples by
feeding the People of Somalia.  We will be feeding our own spirits as
well....Our shared histories keep telling us this.

                             A friend,
                     
                           Gary White Deer
From: varvel@plains.NoDak.edu (Andrew Varvel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:12:43 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


I see.  So Savimbi is a traitor and should be shot.  And all of those
Africans who supported him (not to mention the ones conscripted) should also
be shot, unless, of course, there is a good supply of guillotines and
furnaces.  And while we're at it, kill all the whiteys of South Africa (but
only after, as a race, they are put on trial and convicted), not to mention
Rhodesia.  Meanwhile, Africans would kill or expel all of the Indians who
were cheating Africans all these years.  How wonderful.  And I assume that
Africa would live happily ever after that way, too.  Oops, I forgot that the
Arab whiteys that would have to be disposed of.  Of course, the MPLA didn't 
sell out, because Communists don't count as whiteys.  And that's not to 
mention all of the other traitors to Africandom.

What a happy place Africa would be if this were to happen.  So nice, in
fact, that I would never want to be there.  Of course, one must remember that 
the rhetoric of genocide does create a lot of problems, not the least of
which are tortures and murders so gruesome that it would make one barf just
to think about them.  

I would hope that an Africa I ever see would have sunshine, families, and
wisdom.  The world has had enough of rotting flesh and vulture-picked bones.

But cheer up, things can ALWAYS be worse.

--Andrew Varvel--
The North Dakota Institute for the Study of Africans who study Violence
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: IPS: ZIMBABWE: GOVERNMENT APPROVES 15-YEAR DEVELOPMENT PLAN ON ENERGY
Originator: barnhart@gagme
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 03:43:33 GMT

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Area: Europe, western
Reference: Energy; Third World Dvpmnt
Title: ZIMBABWE: GOVERNMENT APPROVES 15-YEAR DEVELOPMENT PLAN ON ENERGY


harare, oct 8 (ips) -- as zimbabwe undergoes the worst power
supply crisis since independence in 1980, the government has
approved a 15-year development plan to meet the country's energy
needs.

the minister of transport and energy, dennis norman, said
late wednesday the plan will cost about 2.3 billion u.s. dollars
at today's prices.

financing of the long-term plan will be negotiated soon, said
the minister. ''the european community, nordic countries, japan
and the united states are will to assist mainly with
concessionary loans at low interest rates''.

during the 15-year period, the government will rehabilitate
the old thermal stations by 1995, improve generation at kariba
hydro-electrical scheme and source power from cabora bassa in
mozambicabque by 1996.

two more thermal stations will be built at hwange by 1999
while the batoka gorge hydro-electroc scheme on the zambezi
river will be commissioned by 2004.

at the moment, zimbabwe is suffering a critical shortage of
power because of mismanagement of the zimbabwe electricity
supply authority (zesa) -- a government-owned utility company --
and diminished hydro-electric generation capacity at kariba
because of the current drought.

industrial and domestic consumers countrywide have been
subjected to power rationing and cuts for the past two months in
an effort to save electricity.

the combined installed power capacity of hwange, kariba and
the old thermals is 1,921 megawatts (mw). the country's
requirement is 1,400 mw.

the three utilities are currently generating only 980 mw,
while an additional 70 mw is being imported from zaire, south
africa and mozambique, leaving a net shortfall of 350 mw.

according to norman, by may the government will be buying up
to 215 mw to reduce the deficit.

meanwhile, the world bank has set aside one million u.s.
dollars to assist zimbabwe buy spares needed urgently to
rehabilitate the six hwange thermal stations in order to
increase generation.

''i hope this will stabilise and the improve the situation.
it is difficult to predict the future with accuracy but if all
goes well we should improve from where are are'', norman said.
(end/ips/gk/apc/92)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: Third force rides again
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 09:27:16 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

murrell@cc.und.ac.za (Kathy Murrell) writes:

: I like asking questions?  When Matthew Goniwe and his companions were
: murdered most people where aware that this was not a simple accident - 
: someone in power was responsible for their deaths.  Although this has not
: yet come to open court, I think most reasonable South Africans will 
: recognise the methods used.

Maybe Goniwe *was* rubbed out by the state, but that (reprehensible
though it is) establishes nothing about the "third force". After all,
you must start to establish how *much* violence this "third force" is
responsible for and what their motives, organization, leadership, agendas
are. Doesn't do to claim they're responsible for *some* violence which
*may* be somehow linked to the *state*. Are th epeopl ewho rubbed out Goniwe
the same people who launch train attacks? How do we know this?

And note too the recent death of Mr Andre de Villiers, supposedly at the hands
of a state death squad. Turns out the ANC were behind it - or at least ANC
cadres. However, robbery seems to have been the motive. That should teach the 
lesson of caution here.
 
This is not a flame. Keep sending me flowers.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Date: 12 Oct 92 05:12:54 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <BvuA66.Hp9@casper.cs.uct.ac.za> gds@cs.uct.ac.za writes:
>
>Since when have we (Africans) appointed you, Paul Mweene, to speak for us?
>Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
>University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com


That I am an African is something no one doubts.......
what about you Riel? when did the leopard change its sports?


makala
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: deacon@apelc5.inf.ethz.ch (Andrew Deacon)
Subject: Re: Shaka Zulu?
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:32:46 GMT

In article <Bvt93D.6yF@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta) writes:
|> In article <7072@transfer.stratus.com> pr@last.pubs.stratus.com (Paul Ryan) writes:
|> >Has anyone seen the TV miniseries being repeated now called Shaka Zulu?  
|> >Hope this isn't a dumb question, but is this culturally and sociologically  
|> >"accurate"? Feel free to email me.
|> >
|> >Paul
|> 
|> Nah. It's all bull. Just like Tarzan, Out of Africa et al. People watch
|> movies like that to be entertained, not to learn anything. It's like reading
|> s.c.a.
|> 
|> Shaka Zulu is apparently popular here for a number of reasons. Not the least
|> of which is that we see the world thru our prejudiced eyes. I just feel pity
|> for African Americans who actually believe that shit.
|> 
|> Most stories about Shaka Zulu were written by whites, for whites. As if that 
|> is not silly enough,the director of that movie was again another white. Now
|> you know what I mean.....

Someone at the University of Zululand wrote an academic article that 
investigated this very issue and in fact asked the producers why they
did thing known to be incorrect. The answer was basically what Kauta
said above, they make the production for white western viewers. This
was done on purpose - the impression was given that the producer (Faura)
did not always like this - but had to go along because the money
came from America/Europe. 

Faura gave an example which realy sound sick. The American production 
people after reading the script found that the first whites appeared 
only in eposode 9 - this they told had to be changed so that white
were in the first eposide to ensure that the white audience would not
stop watching!! - so Faura changed it! (sounds like a good reason not 
to watch the show to me)

Another example was makeup on the faces of a princess - which would never 
have happened - also the way the princess behaved in an aggressive 
unplesent way. Apparently some Zulus who were shown part and questioned
afterwards by the author of the article said that the princess was not Black!
There was quite a long list of factual things that could easily have
been verified that were plan wrong that were listed in the article. (sorry I
don't have the reference any more)

I am sorry to hear that the show is so popular. The accurate story
I know would be much more interesting and enlightening (and less misleading!). 
It realy does open up ones eyes. I suppose Kauta is right - one must 
just look at it as it it were Tarzan et al.

- Andrew