From: ishikawa@personal-media.co.jp (Chiaki Ishikawa)
Newsgroups: comp.std.internat
Subject: Re: Dumb Americans (was INTERNATIONALIZATION: JAPAN, FAR EAST)
Date: 22 Jan 93 12:17:56 GMT
	<2770@titccy.cc.titech.ac.jp> <1jnlg0INN9n4@life.ai.mit.edu>
Reply-To: ishikawa@personal-media.co.jp
Organization: Personal Media Corp., Tokyo Japan
In-reply-to: glenn@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu's message of 22 Jan 93 02:17:22 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: e6b5904e494d49892f596fc6a2395093


In article <1jnlg0INN9n4@life.ai.mit.edu> glenn@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Glenn A. Adams) writes:

   In article <2770@titccy.cc.titech.ac.jp> mohta@necom830.cc.titech.ac.jp (Masataka Ohta) writes:
   >Consider, for example, a very common radical used for plant-related
   >characters, such as grass and flowers (character code from 827C to 864F
   >of DIS 10646-1.2).
   >
   >Its shape in Japanese or mainland China is
   >
   >        *        *
   >     ****************
   >        *        *
   >
   >whose stroke count is 3, while its shape in Taiwan and Korea is
   >
   >        *        *
   >     *******  *******
   >        *        *
   >
   >whose stroke count is 4. But, these different characters with differently
   >shaped radicals are unified in Unicode.

   Yes, this is a good example of where there is a difference in how
   people count strokes.

	[partial omission]

   However, in all cases there is absolutely no difference in meaning.  One
   can freely substitute in writing either form of this radical; few people
   will even notice unless they look closely.

I don't care how many strokes there are. BUT, for once, I STRONGLY
DISAGREE.  If you ask ordinary Japanese of modern Japan in the street,
they would say that the characters using the radical mentioned in the
upper position above and the characters using the radical mentioned in
the lower position above are CERTAINLY DIFFERENT. I would bet about
1/3 to half the people would even say, "you are writing an INCORRECT
characters."!

And this is exactly why there is opposition from Japan today about
unification and I feel uncomfortable with it. I doubt if Japanese
delegation to CJK group said that "few people will even notice unless
they look closely." You probably know that the distinction of these
characters led to local government offices to install special computer
systems so that the names do not get printed with incorrect
characters. Fujitsu, for example, has a big business in such local
government offices by extending their printer's capability, etc..

Again, I belive the opposition to unification is partially based on
the degree with which people differentiate two characters as different
or not. So disagreement is unavoidalble. But, the above example is I
believe where majority of modern Japanese would say two different
characters and not a good one. I can't speak for modern Chinese or
Koreans, though. 

I might even want to really ask the workers at my office if there is a
newsreaders' demand. Also, I want to check my sanity here :-)

Am I missing something here?

 Chiaki Ishikawa,  Personal Media Corp.,  MY Bldg, 1-7-7 Hiratsuka,
 Shinagawa, Tokyo 142, JAPAN. FAX:+81-3-5702-0359, Phone:+81-3-5702-0351
 UUNET: ishikawa@personal-media.co.jp