HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Franklin and Marshall College
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@RUTVM1.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"HISTORY@RUTVM1.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 02:10:22 -0400
From:         VAX GREMLIN <DA_AZIZ@FANDM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Dewey! Dewey! Dewey!/Is the Hero of the Day/& the Maine has
              Been

Date sent:  16-DEC-1992 02:08:08
> His fleet raked Montojo's one modern &
>    7 dilapidated ships for an hour ("You may fire when ready,
>    Gridley"), following an elliptical path at 2000 to 5000 yards.
>    US gunnery was fair (142 of 5,900 shells hit a Spanish ship)
>    Spanish bad (one lucky hit wounded 8 US sailors).

  Been awhile since I went over, but as an interesting historical FYI, I once
walked on Dewey's ship. It is kept at Penn's Landing in Philly and as a young
child (oh, about 10-12 I'd say) I went with my family and we paid it a visit.
It cost a few bucks to get on and walk around (can't remember if the tour was
guided, maybe) but I remember being on it. I was pretty impressed. Even at that
young age I had a passion for history, so where other kids would have been
bored to tears I thought it all neat and cool. They even, if I remember
correctly, have the spot where Dewey ordered the bombardment to begin marked
with metal footprints. I destinctly remember my father standing there with me
and saying "You may fire when ready, Gridley!" aloud to us after he read the
plaque telling us what the footprints were for. I haven't been back since,
which is just as well b/c in my condition I probably couldn't get around the
ship anymore, but it is still open for business. It was almost shut down when
someone who hurt themselves on the ship sued the company which owned it. The
company was broke and said if it had to pay up, it would have to sell the ship.
Well, they worked something out, so the ship stayed. I don't think many tour it
and many probably don't even know what it historical significance is, which is
a shame. Another thing of note about the ship is it had (has?) the unknown
soldier of the War with Spain on it too. Interesting. Next time in Philly stop
on by and tell Dewey you say hi! :-)
Deb
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%Debbie A. Aziz           "And pray that there's         %
%206a Lincoln MIll Rd.    intelligent life somewhere up  %
%Mullica Hill N.J.         in space, Because there's     %
%Prodigy:RMPJ97A          bugger all down here on        %
%By way of F&M College:            Earth"                %
%Bitnet:DA_Aziz@Fandm.Bitnet      --Monty Python         %
%Internet:DA_AZIZ@ACAD.FANDM.EDU     The Galaxy Song     %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"HISTORY@PSUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:40:17 -0600
From:         CD-MD-RD! <TBEAUDOIN@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Spanish/American War

/>         Was the United States the first country to enshrine the principle
/> of separation of church and state? I realize said principle is not
/> enshrined in our constitution, but rather has evolved as a result of
/> the legal application of US constitutional principles.
/
/How do you reckon that? Amendment I forbids the establishment
/of religion. That is enshrined as one can get. To establish
/a church is to unite church and state. To disestablish is to
/separate church and state, as happened in Ireland in 1869
/and in Wales in 1912.
/
/Denis Paz
/Department of History
/Clemson University
/South Carolina, U.S.A.

        Of course, this is a tender subject.  I was more interested in finding
out if the US was indeed the first country to enshrine said principle, but
i am interested in pursuing the argument further.
        Forbidding the establishment of religion ... now what exactly
does that mean?
        How is allowing students to pray in school establishing religion?
What is religion? Are we, as teachers, establishing our own type of religion
in our school settings? This is, of course, a classic conflict, but i thought
i'd play devil's advocate (pun only slightly intended), even though i tend to
agree with Denis' point of view.

Thomas Beaudoin
Univ. of MO
From: cc-guest@cc309.ncku.edu.tw (Default Trumpet User)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Books about the Perons
Date: 17 Dec 92 06:33:43 GMT
Organization: National Cheng-Kung University

In article <HISTORY%92120501033694@PSUVM.PSU.EDU> Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET> writes:
>Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
>Path: dec8.ncku.edu.tw!nchud5.nchu.edu.tw!news!news.edu.tw!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!auvm!GTRI01.BITNET!LABBEY
>Message-ID: <HISTORY%92120501033694@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
>Date:         Sat, 5 Dec 1992 01:01:25 EST
>Sender:       History <HISTORY@PSUVM.BITNET>
>From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
>Subject:      Re: Books about the Perons
>In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 4 Dec 1992 05:09:28 CST from <jcoryell@NWU.EDU>
>I am still here.
>
>Think of my present condition as a sort of intellectual and moral pregnancy.
>
>Lenny
>
>
>         Quincy is
>
>           -, /|
>            O.O
>          =(___)=
>             U
>
>         Here too!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:07:43 CST
From:         Natalie Maynor <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      NEH Summer Seminars
Comments: To: history@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

A list of the 1993 NEH Summer Seminars for College Teachers (U.S.) is
available via anonymous ftp from ftp.msstate.edu or isis.msstate.edu in
docs/words-l/Misc with filename neh.seminars.  (Note that is the letter l,
not the number 1, in the subdirectory words-l.)  If you decide to apply for
one of the seminars, please tell NEH that you got the information on internet.
Thanks.

Natalie Maynor, Professor
English Department
Mississippi State University
(maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:32:12 EST
From:         Andrew Rowden x2252 <arowden@AUSTIN.ONU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: janie johnson cure complete
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU
              at Dec 17, 92 6:32 am

Being new to the listing, please forgive my ignorance upon this subject.
I have but only one question to ask...

Who is (or was) Janie Johnson and what is a "green goddess".

Thank you.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: history@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"history@psuvm"
X-VMS-Cc: CAMPBELLD
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:30:00 CST
From:         RICHARD JENSEN <CAMPBELLD@APSU.BITNET>
Subject:      deadly force & humanitarianism

    After the Civil War (and the debate on civil rights) the US
    developed a new concept of "citizenship."  US citizenship
    was very easy to obtain, and the US promised to use its
    diplomats and its Navy to protect citizens.  From 1865 to
    1898, the MAIN purpose of the Navy was to protect citizens,
    even though some of them were Armenians, Cubans etc who had
    no intention of living in the USA but got citizenship in
    order to go back to their lands as revolutionaries protected
    by US.  This led to a big mess in 1873 when the Spanish
    captured the "Virginius".  It was an "American" ship running
    guns to revolutionaries in Cuba, and executed the pilot and
    36 crewmen as pirates.  President Grant was seething, and
    war fever swept the States. The Navy put on a fleet
    demonstration at Key West (a humiliating event. The rotting
    wooden warships were far inferior to Spain's ironclads.)
    Turns out the Virginius had fraudulent papers, and an
    apology and $$ closed the matter.  But regularly the Navy
    was sent to intimidate Middle Eastern sultans threatening US
    missionaries, or "citizens" (esp Armenians).
    --Most famous episode came in 1904, when a bandit name
    Raisuli in Tangiers kidnapped John Perdicaris who had
    (dubious) US citizenship.  Roosevelt, up for reelection,
    send 7 warships and demanded "Perdicaris alive or Raisuli
    dead!" (He was released, but his dubious citizenship kept
    hidden until after TR was reelected that November.)
    --What's new is a broadened conception of who deserves
    protection. Answer: every group who is severely persecuted.
    In recent decades protection took form of entry into US
    outside the immigration restriction system. (Hence debate on
    Haitian refugees: are they escaping persecution [they can
    enter] or not [go back].)  Since end of Cold War, protection
    has broadened, covering the Kurds and now the Somalis. Are
    the Bosnians next?
      Richard Jensen  campbelld@apsu
From: S30285@BC750.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Truth in History
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:26:55 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: history@Psuvm.Bitnet
X-VMS-To: IN%"history@Psuvm.Bitnet"
Comments: To: history@Psuvm.Bitnet

Herbert Butterfield described the historian's task this way:
"The task of the historian is to understand the peoples of the past better
than they understood themselves."
        With that as a beginning point, and with a realization that all history
is inherently subjective, but that there is no inherent contradiction between
subjectivity and truth, the historian's craft is indeed an art, an art is
[in] which truth, albeit truth as can be determined at that moment, is at
best temporary.  Bruce Catton wrote, "Even the best history  is little better
than a fog through which we see shapes dimly moving."
        Don't despair, however.  As Oscar Wilde said, "Any fool can make
history, but it takes a genius to write it."
                                                Barton Starr
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: history@psuvm.bitnet
X-VMS-To: IN%"history@psuvm.bitnet"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 13:29:56 -0500
From:         MARTIN FOX <FOXML@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Situationism
Comments: To: history@psuvm.bitnet

  Can anyone recommend books on the history of and ideology behind the
French Situationist uprisings in May 1968?

-Martin
From: junger@SAMSARA.LAW.CWRU.EDU (Peter D. Junger)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: The Spanish/American War
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:58:11 GMT
Reply-To: junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu>
X-Mailer: PCElm 3.01
Comments: To: history%rutvm1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu

Lenny says:

>I just read a book on the Spanish-American war, and there was a detailed
>description of the battle of Manila.  No mention of a German fleet....
>or even any German ships.
>
>Lenny
>

It is nice that for once Lenny actually supplies us with the evidence
upon which he bases his remarkable conclusions.


Peter D. Junger

Case Western Reserve University Law School, Cleveland, OH
Internet:  JUNGER@SAMSARA.LAW.CWRU.Edu -- Bitnet:  JUNGER@CWRU
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Wednesday, 16 Dec 1992 13:57:20 PST
From: Patrick Clancey <CLANCEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: First Amendment (was Re: The Spanish/American War)
 <1992Dec15.110751.24169@newstand.syr.edu> <BzD6sK.G7L@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>

creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps) says:
       I wonder how the term "Separation of Church and State" came into
    being?  People seem to quote it as if it were the word of God, but I
    know of no official basis for it.  My point is that people think the
    Constitution actually uses these words, so they base their
    interpretations on this phrase instead of the actual words of the
    Constitution, and thus tend to add meanings that aren't really there.

It was James Madison of Virginia -- the author of the 1st amendment
who claimed that the amendment "erected a wall of separation between
church and state".  It seems reasonable to me to believe that the man
who wrote it had a good idea of what it meant.

Patrick Clancey
CLANCEY@SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 10:39:00 EST
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: The Spanish/American War

On Tue, 15 Dec 1992 03:52:41 EST Lenny Abbey <LABBEY@GITVM1.BITNET>
said:

> We didn't force the sale of Florida, Louisiana, Alaska.  But I suppose that
> the "Baton Rouge Revolt" whatever that was, does demonstrate us to be
> an evil empire.

Lenny believes that it the only possibilities are perfection or
total evil. (A view that fits in with the traditions of Southern
American Evangelicalism, wherein one is either saved or damned.)

Denis Paz
Department of History
Clemson University
South Carolina, U.S.A.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: rbp@netcom.com (Bob Pasker)
Subject: Re: History Network and H-Net
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 04:46:08 GMT

Thomas Zielke <113355@DOLUNI1.BITNET> writes:

>Dear Sarah,
>Prof. Nelson and I have suggested that H-Net might join the History
>Network as a whole - H-Net's focus seems to be on education and training,
>while the History Network, besides education and training, also focusses
>on providing and developing electronic communication services. 

no doubt a counter proposal from the UI people is in the works which would
make the history network part of h-net.

-- 
--- bob pasker
---- rbp@netcom.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:31:00 EST
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: The Spanish/American War

On Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:06:00 CST RICHARD JENSEN <CAMPBELLD@APSU.BITNET>
said:

>     Cynical historians have assumed that "humanitarian"
>     justifications must have been preposterous, because nobody is
>     that humanitarian.  The "real" reason therefore must have been
>     something else (and because it was hidden, probably something
>     nefarious.)

Is this an accurate description of how historians
have treated the Spanish-American War, or any
other historical problem? I think not.
Rather, historians, at least not the ones I've
read, don't begin with the assumption that
humanitarian justifications must have been
preposterous. (It is true that they may
begin with the assumption that states act in
accordance with their perceived best interests.)
Rather, they look behind the
stated motives, and attempt to recover the
springs of action. Sometimes, they find that
humanitarianism is in happy confluence with
economic, political, or social self-interest.
Sometimes they find that humanitarianism
rests on paternalistic, class, or even racist
assumptions.


>     The intervention in Somalia . . .
>     demonstrate . . .
>     that the US can indeed intervene for
>     humanitarian reasons.

No-one (I think) was arguing that the U.S. never
intervenes for humanitarian reasons.
That the U.S. intervens in Somalia for humanitarian
reasons is not evidence to show that it intervened
in other places, at other times, for humanitarian
reasons.

Denis Paz
Department of History
Clemson University
South Carolina, U.S.A.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: history@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"history@psuvm"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:00:00 CST
From:         RICHARD JENSEN <CAMPBELLD@APSU.BITNET>
Subject:      Gunder Frank (leftist historian) spots evil in Somalia Role

From:   IN%"WORLD-L@UBVM.BITNET"  "World-L - Forum on non-Eurocentric world hist
   ory" 16-DEC-1992 03:50:53.77
To:     Multiple recipients of list WORLD-L <WORLD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
CC:
Subj:   somalia

Return-path: <WORLD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
Received: from JNET-DAEMON by APSU.BITNET with PMDF#10313; Wed, 16 Dec 1992
 03:50 CST
Received: From UBVM(MAILER_L) by APSU with Jnet id 6980 for CAMPBELLD@APSU;
 Wed, 16 Dec 92 03:50 CST
Received: from UBVM by ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (Mailer R2.08 PTF008) with BSMTP id
 8518; Wed, 16 Dec 92 04:48:42 EST
Received: from UBVM.BITNET by ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (Mailer R2.08 PTF008) with
 BSMTP id 8512; Wed, 16 Dec 92 04:48:40 EST
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 10:35:00 MET
From: GUNDERFRANK@ALF.LET.UVA.NL
Subject: somalia
To: Multiple recipients of list WORLD-L <WORLD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
Reply-to: World-L - Forum on non-Eurocentric world history <WORLD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
Message-id: <7DB748F5806007CB@APSU.BITNET>
Comments: Sent using PMDF-822 V3.0, routing is done by SARA5
Comments: To: world-l@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

From:   IN%"PEN-L@USCVM.BITNET"  "Progressive Economists Network" 15-DEC-1992 10
   :18:19.99
To:     Multiple recipients of list PEN-L <PEN-L@USCVM.BITNET>
CC:
Subj:   RE: forwarded mail re US interests in Somalia

Received: from vax2.sara.nl by ALF.LET.UVA.NL; Tue, 15 Dec 92 10:17 MET
Received: from hearnvax.nic.surfnet.nl by SARA.NL for
 GUNDERFRANK@ALF.LET.UVA.NL; 15 Dec 92 10:17 MET
Received: from HEARN.BITNET (MAILER@HEARN) by HEARNVAX.nic.SURFnet.nl with
 PMDF#10216; Tue, 15 Dec 1992 10:09 MET
Received: from HEARN by HEARN.BITNET (Mailer R2.08 PTF008) with BSMTP id 9543;
 Tue, 15 Dec 92 09:52:07 CET
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 09:42:00 MET
From: GUNDERFRANK@ALF.LET.UVA.NL
Subject: RE: forwarded mail re US interests in Somalia
To: Multiple recipients of list PEN-L <PEN-L@USCVM.BITNET>
Reply-to: Progressive Economists Network <PEN-L@USCVM.BITNET>
Comments: Sent using PMDF-822 V3.0, routing is done by SARA5
Message-id: <E97BB83CE0029D57@HEARNVAX.nic.SURFnet.nl>
X-Envelope-to: GUNDERFRANK@ALF.LET.UVA.NL


"We must not pretend that America fights where it has no strategic
interests" - Henry Kissinger, LA Times in IHT Dec 14 under the
title HUMANITARIAN INTRGVENTION HAS ITS HAZARDS.
There you have it fronm the horse's mouth!!
compliments of gunder frank
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:33:38 EST
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GITVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Spanish/American War

>                      That the US can indeed intervene for
>    humanitarian reasons.

Richard, you sound as though you don't believe that the United States
is an evil and craven country.

That means you don't belong here.

Lenny
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"HISTORY@PSUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sat, 12 Dec 1992 13:16:15 -0600
From:         CD-MD-RD! <TBEAUDOIN@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Spanish/American War

Richard Jensen does a fine job of outlining US motivations in 1898,
but i wonder about a few things Richard did not mention, namely Americans
and American business interests in Cuba.  Am i wrong in my recollection that
McKinley, in his speech to congress (april?) 1898, outlined the protection
of American lives abroad as an important reason for intervention? Also,
ought we not forget the Cuban revolutionaries torching sugar plantations
(many of which were held by US investors)?  American business was certainly
threatened -- though i don't know the extent of the torchings.  Perhaps
these were minor reasons in our longer historical perspective, but i seem
to recall these reasons being important politically in the late 1890s...

Thomas Beaudoin
Int'l Baccalaureate Program
Lee's Summit, MO

TBEAUDOIN@VAX1.UMKC.EDU

ps -- a recent exchange betwee myself and a student during class:
Me: "why did some cuban revolutionaries set sugar plantations ablaze?"
Student: "because they were diabetic?"

:-)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:00:04 EST
From:         Steven H Silver <SHSILVER@UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Islamic (Arab) resources

Carlton-

Funny you should ask.  Earlier today I picked up a book by Amin Maalouf
_The Crusades Through Arab Eyes_, published by Schocken Press, translated by
Jon Rothschild.  In the forward, Maalouf explains that his book's "content
is based almost exclusively on the testimony of contemporary Arab historians
and chroniclers."  If you like, let me know and I'll send you a copy of
his bibliography.

Steven H Silver
Indiana University, Department of History
SHSILVER@IUBACS.BITNET
SHSILVER@ucs.indiana.edu

"There are some knightly souls who make their visits to bookshops not because
they need any certain volume, but because they feel that there may be some
book that needs them."
           -Christopher Morley
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: St. Lawrence University
X-Acknowledge-To: <DLALLY@STLAWU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:21:31 EDT
From:         Dale Lally <DLALLY@STLAWU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Spanish/American War
              15 Dec 1992 11:07:51 EST from <crdunlea@RODAN.ACS.SYR.EDU>

Wonder if someone could clarify some naval trivia.  I understand that when
Admiral Dewey sailed into Manila bay to confront the Spanish fleet, he
really was not worried about the Spaniards so much as he was worried
about a German squadron moored there.  I saw a brief allusion to this a few
years ago in the Naval Institute Proceedings.  However, that is all there
was-a brief allusion.

Does anyone have any info on the presence of a German squadron there at the
time and why Dewey would worry about it?


Cordially

Dale V Lally Jr, Director
Carnegie Language Center
St. Lawrence University
Canton NY 13617
(315) 379 5857 VOICE
(315) 379 5989 FAX
DLALLY@STLAWU.BITNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 12:42:33 CST
From:         Don Mabry <djm1@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: First Amendment
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

        The church-state issue in Mexico has a long history. The first
substantive efforts to limit the power and rights of the church
occurred in 1833 but a conservative golpe de estado reversed the
effort. In the Constitution of 1857, Mexico separated church and
state in many ways. However, the Constitution of 1917 made a radical
separation of church and state. Religious organizations, for example,
were forbidden to operate elementary and seconday schools; clergy were
not allowed to wear ecclesiastical garb in public; and religious
symbolism was forbidden in politics. And more.
        President Dr. Carlos Salinas de Gortari recently had a
constitutional amendment passed to give a greater degree of latitude
to religious organizations.

Don Mabry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:26:00 EST
From:         "Glenn R. Greene" <U953117@RUTADMIN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Somalia and tied aid

Hi Paul,
   When I saw your posting here I had to laugh.  Although Ireland is
surely not anti-Western, the students at your University harbor
some anti-American Imperialism attitudes as shown by the mural
depicting the Statue of Liberty waving an automatic weapon above her
head.  What is that all about anyway?  It sure is in sharp contrast
to the Kennedy memorial in Galway square.
                                         Glenn Greene
                                         Rutgers University
------------------------------TEXT-OF-YOUR-MAIL--------------------------------


>   Besides, what anti_US government is there
> in the world in which the people prosper and enjoy a high standard of
> living?  I submit that there are NONE!  What the world needs to save it
> from itself is a little good old Western Imperialism.  That will
> sureely do nothing but good for the world's people!
> So now all governments are either pro US or anti US.Black or white ,no grey?
>
>
> Paul Robinson
> University College Galway
> Ireland
> Ecnrobinson.orbsen.ucg.ie
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU