HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Racism against WHITE in China??? (was Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:19:54 GMT
Reply-To: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.106

This thread is drifting into soc.culture.china, but I can't resist
traveller's tales :-) 

In article <1992Aug17.221424.24709@u.washington.edu> chuan@milton.u.washington.edu (Chuan "infamous" Lee) writes:

>1) I was asked to pay double for an entrance ticket because I 'dressed'
>   like a foreigner, by an 60-year old women.  I paid the normal fare
>   after I lied that I was from Canton, with my Cantonese-accent Mandarin.
Tian1 bupa4, di4 bupa4, jiu4 pa4 guang3dong1ren2 shuo4 guan1hua4 :-)
("I'm afraid of neither heaven nor earth, only of Cantonese speaking
Mandarin"  - old Chinese joke...no offense intended)

>2) I tried to help 2 American students to get cheaper seats on a train
>   from Shanghai to Xian.  The train captain insisted that all foreign
>   'guests' must buy tickets for the luxury cabin, because "Aren't all
>   American rich?"  After explaining the students' budget problem, for
>   a long time and some back-padding (friendly gesture), I got the
>   '2nd class' seats for the students.

My favorite image of this type of "special treatment" was at the ticket
counter for the Yangtze ferry at the dock in Chongqing (Chungking) 
where a hand-written poster announced grandly, "According to some 
regulation, foreigner must purchase first-class ticket" :-) 

>Below are my observations/conclusions:
>
>* Local people are truely curious about foreigners.
>* Some local people are really fed up with the discrination against
>  their own people.

Yes.

>* Local people want to buy your FEC with a better exchange rate than
>  what the gov't offers.  But then it IS somewhat illegal to use
>  Renmingbi if you are a foreigner, overseas Chinese included.

It's not illegal for nonresidents to use RMB (Renminbi), it's just
that some tourist places refuse to accept them. I was paid in Renminbi
during my stay, and had only Renminbi to spend. I only ran into 
problems at the Overseas Chinese Hotel in Beijing and couple of
other "high class" places.  But this whole thing is so  
arbitrarily that what is permitted today might be totally changed
tommorrow.

>Chuan Lee

Joe Huang
From: John Scott <jscott@Aztecridge.LosGatos>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: ORIENTALS???????
Date: 12 Aug 1992 23:03:32 GMT
Organization: none
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.243.64.106
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1

Whenever I call an oriental "oriental", I always get told to say Asian
instead.  I just don't understand what the big deal is with you
orientals!!!  I always ask for a legitimate reason but never get one.  I
hope someone on this newsgroup could give me a reasonable explanation. 
Otherwise, I see nothing wrong with calling Korean, Chinese, and Japanese
people "oriental."

John Scott
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: thao@bnr.ca (Anthony Murtagh)
Subject: Re: What is tacky today
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:16:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.213633.19387@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>In article <16udi9INNqj6@agate.berkeley.edu> jwd@briones.ced.berkeley.edu (John Wilbrand Dahlgren) writes:
>>
>>              "WHAT IS TACKY TODAY"
>>
>>    "Miya Dodd, 15, student, Tulsa: (answers)
>>     Having so many Orientals in the continental U.S.A. 
>>     Coming to S.F. I expected to see surfers and here are all 
>>     these Orientals. I'm part Japanese. I'm used to being the
>>     one who is different! Seeing so many in the U.S.A. is
>>     getting on my nerves."
>>
>>
>
>Wow.  Can you say "Racial Anorexia"?  I knew you could.
>(Aside 2:  From the name and response, one might guess that
>Miya is the product of a WM/AF marriage (WM=white male, are you
>happy Ron?).  Do you suppose this particular family raised her
>with a strong sense of (multi-)ethnic identity?)

well, apparently she grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood,
and from the likes of her reply, she seems to be from very upper
class--"i'm used to being the one who is different!".

also, apparently, since she found out she's not "the last of the 
mohicans", and she's not happy about it.  :-)  geez, i would have
jumped for joy and hugged each "oriental" i saw if i had been in
her situation--of course, i would hug the ones wearing bikinis
for a little bit longer.  ;-)  

>(Aside 3:  When she turns 18, do you think it'd be more likely
>that she'd go to Cal, discover the true self-esteem and self-identity
>that has been denied her by a racist society, and become a raving
>Asian-American activist, or will she marry into the Aryan Nation to
>avoid having to deal with "all these Orientals," who are so tacky?)

sounds more like she's going to stay away from the west coast where
the "orientals" dwell in large numbers.  maybe she'll go to a univ
in alabama or nc.

laly thao

/***********************************************************************************\
*   thao@cse.uta.edu	   |  "The lipstick is purple.  The mecha is Psycho."	    *
*   B645ZAY@UTARLG.UTA.EDU |                          -old Panime newsletter        *
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: ORIENTALS???????
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 05:43:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.232131.9005@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> bgt@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (barbara.tongue) writes:
>>In article <25446@dog.ee.lbl.gov> jscott@Aztecridge.LosGatos (John Scott) 
>>writes:
>->Whenever I call an oriental "oriental", I always get told to say Asian
>->instead.  I just don't understand what the big deal is with you
>->orientals!!!  
This post comes off rather abrasive.
BUT, I for one am not offended by the word "oriental",
I prefer to define the WORD with my ACTIONS, rather then
have my ACTIONS defined by the WORD.

>jesus christ (and he had nothing to do with this).  johnnie-boy, with
>that kinda attitude, it's no wonder you don't understand...
Hmm, guess thats why he used a bogus address.

>->hope someone on this newsgroup could give me a reasonable explanation. 
>->Otherwise, I see nothing wrong with calling Korean, Chinese, and Japanese
>->people "oriental."
>
>that might be your perception.  great, it's your right.  however, it's
>not everyone else's perception, and common courtesy would demand that you
>refer to people as they desire.  makes no difference if you agree or disagree
>with the appelation - treat folks with the same respect you would want 
>yourself.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: davec@davinci.concordia.ca (Dave Chu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: ORIENTALS???????
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:35:55 GMT
Organization: ECE - Concordia University

In article <25446@dog.ee.lbl.gov> jscott@Aztecridge.LosGatos (John Scott) writes:
>Whenever I call an oriental "oriental", I always get told to say Asian
>instead.  I just don't understand what the big deal is with you
>orientals!!!  I always ask for a legitimate reason but never get one.  I
>hope someone on this newsgroup could give me a reasonable explanation. 
>Otherwise, I see nothing wrong with calling Korean, Chinese, and Japanese
>people "oriental."
>
>John Scott

Would you also consider calling all African-Americans "BLACKS" or "YOU PEOPLE" ?
How would you like it if you were constantly being refered as "CAUCASIAN", or
"OCCIDENTAL".  

Actually, we would like to be called by our names.

Dave
                                          |\ |     | |                       
___________________________/\  /\  /\_____| \|_____| |_____    ___  ___  ___
  Dave Kai-Chui Chu          \/  \/       | /|     | |        |    |    |
  Dept. of Elec. & Comp. Eng.             |/ |     | |        |--  |    |--
  Concordia University               Voice:(514)848-3115      |___ |___ |___
  1455 de Maisonneuve W. H915        Fax:  (514)848-2802
  Montreal, Quebec, Canada H3G 1M8   Email:davec@davinci.concordia.ca
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: jlw@gestalt.austin.tx.us (James Waldrop)
Subject: Re: What do E. Hall, M. Kamprath, J. Waldrop, and M. Fester have in common?
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory, NM
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:55:36 GMT

mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
>   I wrote:
>   Would you be against someone introducing themselves to you by their
>   nickname?
>
>I've yet to meet someone who goes by a nickname who's been unwilling
>to provide a "real" name if I asked for it, i.e. for addressing
>wedding invitations, being able to find them in a phone book, etc.

The trouble with this analogy is that it assumes one person is talking
to one other person.  On Usenet this is obviously not the case.  Instead
we are talking to a small percentage of people we "know" (ie, they talk
back), and a very large percentage of people that just read.  I don't
go writing my name and number on the bathroom walls, or printing them
in the newspaper, and I'm certainly not going to do so on Usenet.

Admittedly, blatantly refusing to provide a real name isn't the *Common*
response, but I certainly think it is reasonably justifiable.

Sulam
-- 
James Waldrop
jlw@hebrew.cc.columbia.edu

I walk along the path muttering about signs and portents.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Economics and Discrimination
Date: 19 Aug 92 05:02:14 GMT
Distribution: usa

Economic pressures may influence the behavior of a business
with respect to racial and other useless/harmful discrimination.

For example, in terms of hiring workers:

1.  How much does the quality of the employees matter?  If it
    is a lot, then the pressure to not engage in useless
    discrimination is increased.  But if quality matters little,
    then there is little pressure to avoid useless discrimination.

2.  How reliably can quality be measured?  If it can be measured
    easily and reliably, then the pressure to not engage in useless
    discrimination is increased.  But if measuring quality is difficult,
    then useless discrimination has an easier time of entering the
    hiring process.

3.  How competitive is the industry?  A high degree of competition
    magnifies the effect of small differences in overall quality
    of employees.

4.  Are there external pressures?  For example, will customers be
    more or less likely to buy the product or services depending
    on useless discrimination.

A significant contrast can be made between professional sports
players (answers:  1. a lot, 2. pretty well, 3. very, 4. little,
and professional sports management (answers:  1. unknown, 2. not
very reliably, 3. very, but only indirectly relevant, 4. little).
One is arguably one of the least discriminatory places of
employment (with respect to hiring processes) today (though it
isn't perfect and certainly not through the entire history or
evenly over all sports), while the other still struggles with a
strong reputation of racial discrimination. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
From: joanne@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Joanne Petersen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What is tacky today
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:28:51 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard PAITC Data Center

I grew up in Chicago and went to college in Massachusetts (western) and
lived a couple of years in NYC as well as in western Massachusetts after 
I graduated.  Definitely there are more Asians on the west coast!  In the
major cities (Chicago/NYC/Boston) there are a fair number of Asians, but
outside of the city, there's no question that we are a minority.  I had a
hard time getting raw fish and Asian foods when in Massachusetts!!  (It
was a 2-hour drive to Boston from where I was living.)

Attitudes towards Asians were pretty open-minded (i.e. not out-and-out
racist) but I have a feeling that had to do with living near college
towns (Amherst/Mt.Holyoke/Smith/UMass/Hampshire) more than anything.

I'd like to know what it's like to be an Asian person living in the deep
south and Texas!  (Jim Pak, that's for you :-)  The impression I have of
the south (and Texas :-) is that Asians are tolerated but racism against
Asians is there.  I've never lived in those areas.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: friendships....
Organization: Quake Public Access
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:00:03 GMT

Actually, I would be surprised if (statistically speaking) there were not
more "interesting" and "non-superficial" people among immigrant groups
and their offspring, simply because there is a certain amount of initiative,
ability, and determination required to leave where you grew up and move 
to another country.  I can't say that I have really observed this myself,
but it's probably a statistical fact.

--Brian
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: One white boy
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:22:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23456
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Distribution: na
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <25484@dog.ee.lbl.gov> yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:

>Whine, whine, whine, when will these self-professed "clueless old white boys"
>stop whining? :-)  You seem to be hung up about being dehumanized because of
>your race. If you think you've got it bad as a white boy in America, what will 
>you EVER do if you dared go to somewhere in Asia where you would be truly
>a minority? :-)

>Joe Huang  

The smiley face is so noted.  On the other hand, I have a rather
good feeling for what it's like to be in circles where I'm
the only clueless old white boy (or any kind of white boy) around.
For various reasons, I've found myself in this situation more times
that, I suspect, most people.  Perhaps this makes me both more
and less tolerant.  Why?  Because I know, to some extent, the
self-imposed isolation that can result, and because I also know
the "natural" results of being a suspect outsider.

Now, of course, this happens to people of any race or sex.  White
people are anything but unique in this experience, and are less
likely than most to experience it in this culture, for RACE
reasons.  For strictly economic and/or social reasons, the probability
is pretty much the same for everyone, I think.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What Separates Us?
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:52:35 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Distribution: soc
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <1992Aug14.150852.28707@nynexst.com>, clare@nynexst.com
(Clare Chu) writes:
|>From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
|>Subject: Re: What Separates Us?
|>Date: 14 Aug 92 15:08:52 GMT
|>
|>>[Bunch of Stuff Deleted]
|>>
|>>|>
|>>|>  c.  Are Indian-Americans Asian-Americans?  I think so, but why?
|>>
|>>Man, I can't believe that this is even a question! What the hell are we?
|>>Just from perusing the articles, I've noticed that I'm the only Indian-Am
|>>posting to the group. This could be due to a lot of reasons, maybe one of
|>>them the incessant ignorant posts equating Caucasoids with Whites. 
|>
|>  I think people here need to be educated.  We need to change the
|>  acronyms we've been using.  
|>
|>  Also, I've been meaning to ask, but could you define the terms
|>  "desi" and "ABCD"?  I've seen them used to refer to Indian Americans.
|>
|>  Maybe we need a new FAQ on acronyms and terminology.

Desi refers to basically anyone from the Indian Subcontinent (India, Pakistan,
Sri Lanka, etc.)  Its actually the preferred term that people in 
alt.culture.us.asian-indian use, because it doesn't imply territorial
boundaries.
Its fine with me considering that my folks were born in what is now Pakistan
and emigrated to India during the partition of the country. I don't know the
origin of the term, as I don't know any of the many languages.

As to ABCD, that is a derogatory term that stands for American Born Confused
Desi, like me. Its generally used by recent immigrants who like to ridicule
second generation people. However, I'll admit that I'm one. AB for sure and
Confused as hell.

We all need to be educated and a bit more open minded. 

The last figures I saw stated that there are ~800k Desi Americans. So there
are a number of Caucasian Asian Americans.


Ron
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Why do minority groups whine?
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:07:32 GMT
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <T2b-FA-@engin.umich.edu> kamprath@caen.engin.umich.edu (Michael F. Kamprath) writes:


>Probaly when someone comes up with a solid way of demonstrating to all of
>America that the problems of the minorities are really problems for us all.

Yes, yes, YES.  The way any "minority" is going to succeed in
breaking down prejudice is by convicing the majority that
there is an ADVANTAGE to not being prejudiced. Since that's
true for almost any minority (I won't include psychopathic
axe murderers, for instance), almost anywhere, that SHOULDN'T
be hard.

But.

When all the rhetoric is "us vs. them" or "blame them, don't blame us"
or whatever, it's going to be awfully hard to convince your
average white boy otherwise. (Yes, this one is already long
since convinced, but of coruse we know that Pak and Shaw claim
that I'm the worst white thing since sliced blunder bread.)
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jyoung@Cadence.COM (John Young)
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:35:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.183617.21725@inmet.camb.inmet.com> lrq@fanny (Robert Quan) writes:
>
>Why is it that a majority of the non-orientals (caucasians) that post here
>all tend to have an optimistic view on racism.  
>How can anyone who doesn't know what it feels like to be harassed based on
>there race/culture understand.
>It seems to me that anyone lacking first hand experience at being the
>receiving end of extreme racism and be able to offer advice hypocrites.
>
>    Robert

What does caucasion have to do with it.In these day's of "Civil Rights"the "white"
man is one of the biggest victims of racism!!!
When you Asian americans,or Black americans,or Euro americans,say at college want a
Asian/Black/Euro-American club or something its just a display of your "civil right's/
free speech"or whatever.
If "white's"wanted to have a White American club,the first thing the Asian/Black/Euro
communities would say is"But that's like a K.K.K.group"or "that's a Nazi type group"

If you think about it the U.S.gives out grant's and scholarships to the:
disabled
minorities
women
etc.
But you don't get a loan/grant/scholarship/low interst rate if you're a typical
"white male"
If minorities say something anti-white it's free-speech!!
If the Whites say something anti-minority it's racism!!!!!!!!!!!!!

White's are constantly experienceing being on the recieving end of "what one might
call reverse racism"but it's the still racism just the same.So what's the deal of
the whinning,minorities have it easier than whites,you should be happy!!!!!!!!!!!!

		Shut up & bring on your "but we're the oppressed"flames!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: thao@bnr.ca (Anthony Murtagh)
Subject: Melting Pot Semantic (was Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:02:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.174256.1647@ee.gatech.edu> wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu writes:
>In article 23448@alice.att.com, jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy) writes:
>>In article <SHAW.92Aug13001642@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>

[white elitism and other entertaining discussions gone]

>
>
>I don't think Andy is a separatist, I think he is being realistic.  I definitely 
>do not belive in the whole melting pot concept.  That is something that scares
>me because that is basically saying that we are all stripped of our individuality 
>and conform to a majority viewpoint. 
>

I would have to differ with your melting pot interpretation.  I've always
thought that the melting pot concept embraced a "unity in diversity" theme,
or have I been brainwashed by the public school system?  Of course it is
an ideal interpretation and as we know ideal and real worlds do not
necessarily coincide with each other.  Nevertheless the melting pot most
certainly does not strip us of our individuality.

laly thao

	melting pot recipe:  8 parts caucasoid to 2 parts mongoloid,
                             stir well and watch it boil  :-)


/***********************************************************************************\
*   thao@cse.uta.edu	   |  "The lipstick is purple.  The mecha is Psycho."	    *
*   B645ZAY@UTARLG.UTA.EDU |                          -old Panime newsletter        *
\***********************************************************************************/