From: vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ()
Subject: Re: Spoken Like a True ProLifer
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:31:09 GMT

jdahl@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jared Dahl) writes:

>In article <C0338G.794@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
>|> 
>|> Liberal Definition of Values: Restrictions stopping us from doing anything
>|> 			      we want without any repercussions or
>|> 			      responsibilities.

>Conservatives moan and whine about a lack of values and
>don't even have a clue what they are talking about.  Bush
>showed us his values by pardoning a bunch of criminals.
>Might makes right.

Those men were not tried.  They are not criminals.

>And what do you know about my or any liberal's values?
>NOTHING!

I know that the agenda liberals have set and implemented has resulted
in a decline in morality, and an increase in crime and poverty. 

>|> It seems to me these values are being taught very well to liberal's children.
>|> Poor kids.

>Let's see:  Tolerance of others who are different, helping
>the needy.  I say lucky kids.  I had to wait until college
>to learn many of these things.

Let's see: There are no consequences to my actions because other people's
	   taxes will bail me out.  My country OWES me, not vice versa.
	   Killing and stealing are okay because we were driven to do that
	   by an uncaring society.



>|> This is what I have repeatedly labeled the "incentives to stay poor".

>The real incentives to stay poor are the lack of jobs
>that allow a person to raise a family.  People could
>get off of welfare if they could get a real job.  The
>McDonalds example was pure conservative BS.  Could you
>raise a family on minimum wage in NY or LA?  Let's make
>jobs, not excuses.

I worked at McDonalds.  I knew people whose only source of income was
work at McDonalds.  They made more money working than they could on welfare.


>|> Good idea!  They also should be forced to demonstrate a willingness to
>|> educate or prepare themselves for REAL LIFE.  

>Education is expensive, are we going to pay for that?
>We sure as hell don't now...
>And just how would you have these people demonstrate
>this willingness?  Let's hear your ideas, I'm sure
>they are just grand.

Compared to the money wasted in the machinery of the welfare bureaucracy
the cost of education is insignificant.  Put an absolute limit on
welfare... 4 years.  During those four years the beneficiaries of the
welfare MUST go to school and learn a trade or study for a degree.
Day care would be provided.  Those who refuse lose welfare benefits.
Provisions to extend this based on extenuating circumstances would of
course be included.  The money saved from those who simply want to live
off welfare could be used to fund the schooling and day care.
This might raise welfare costs in the first 4 years, but after that
I suspect they would decrease greatly.

Give tax breaks to parents whose students are getting a B  average.
Give teachers salary incentives based on their students' performances
on standardized tests.  If the students don't learn, the teachers earn
less.  If the students learn more, the teachers benefit financially.
Initiate programs to encourage parents to force their kids to do their
homework.

>Jared Dahl
>Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.
>Don't send e-mail - I won't get it.



Edward Simmonds- Not an economist so any economist who can enlighten us
		 please do so

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