From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: A Few Comments from Uncle Sekhmet
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 05:11:00 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

One more post I'm doing for Scott...

--Semhaza

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Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: A few Comments on Uncle Sekmet...
Summary: 
Expires: 
References:
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Keywords: 

 
[the following is an example of Sophistry]
You:

4.  
Does ANY process lead to immortality?  Who knows?  I just
find it a more pleasing aesthetic to structure my life around.  

Response:

So you structure your life around tools that you don't have faith will
work?  What does this say about your choice of TOS? 

SL} absolutely nothing as far as I can see. If Uncle Sekmet likes his beliefs
SL} and they are useful & he doesn't try & hoist them on you; who cares what
SL} they are? At least he has the strength to select his own..
*******************************************************************
 
You:

I am
not interested in entering in Socratic dialogue wit in large.  I
am not interested in being their teacher, nor in matters of
philosophy am I interested in being their student. -- In matters
other then philosophy I try very hard to adopt the attitudes of
Socrates, the wisest man of Greece, who said, "I know nothing."   
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
SL} Personally, I think Socrates was an asshole. The guy singlehandedly 
SL} distacted all succeeding (note the Crowleyan pun here, from book of lies) 
SL} generations of Philosophers from questions of "Natural Philosophy"- i.e. 
SL} physics, mathematics, biology, etc. to meaningless abstractions about 
SL} divinity, spirit & etc; in essence Socrates was the first Theologen; all 
SL} subsequent theolgens derived their methodology from Socrates. His mistake,
SL}  attempting to apply logic to that for which it does
SL} not apply, as some scientists apply linear analysis techniques to 
SL} essentially non-linear phenomena. This gives a distorted, incomplete 
SL} picture of what you try to describe.
SL} Carl Sagan once said that if the schools of natural philosophers (in 
SL} ancient Greece) were encouraged in their exploits, rather than distracted
SL} by generations of religious debates & intolerances, we would be star-
SL} travellers by now.


You:

You:

Of course also there's cute
babes dressed up like vampires running around, and a neat
vacation in the International Conclaves.

SL} WOW! Sign me up Uncle Sekmet! 

You:

9. 
We hope to avoid the Jungian trap of saying that we must live
in the one-sided, alienated modern world and experience the
Unconscious only symbolically and privately.  I'd like to share
some things I wrote recently to a an RHP friend who teaches in
New Mexico and had analysis with Marie-Lousie von Franz in the
60's.,


Response:

I'm not enough of a Jungian to know that this is considered a 'trap'.
Interesting.  Is the Unconscious, then, this 'darkness'?  If so, then
have you arrived at the 'formula' of conscious identification with the
Unconscious?  This is not novel, but I think it may be effective.
 
von Franz quote:

One can try to find something to obtain unity with through various
means of slaying the ego -- such as the quest for Nirvana or its
equally sophisticated  Western counterpart Jungian work.  


Response:

This displays a gross oversimplification (and I would argue MISinterpretation)
of Buddhism.  I'm not adept enough with Jung to know about that, but I
doubt that this is accurate also.

SL} It also depends which path of Buddism, Diamond Sutra Buddism is quite the
SL} ego enhancing path (DSB should be listed as an antecedant of Satanism, if
SL} egyptian mystery cults are; they are approximately as closely related IMHO)

von Franz quote:

Or one can try for a sort of spiritual self actualization -- accepting
the Self's nonunion with the Cosmos and work on developing the
self and after discovering the principles within making those
principles manifest in the world outside.  I choose this feared
option as the path to Becoming an immortal and powerful essence.  

SL} I can see Thyagi's problem with all this theologising; this could be said
SL} easier, with less mumbo- jumbo. I suppose some folks like "Mumbo-Jumbo",
SL} for me it obscures rational thought.
 

von Franz quote:

"This is a generally frowned upon option.  It is alright to study
the psyche, but not to do anything with it.  Actually it's really
not alright to study the psyche in our society -- it is alright
to learn the language of slogans.  It is alright to pretend to
know, rather than to say the highest ideal I can think is to seek
after the mysteries.   

SL} Agreed, any time a group experiments with self-programming, there is an
SL} establishment crackdown. Only society approved programming is allowed.

von Franz quote:

"I'm not interested in becoming one with the archetypes that are
my inheritance as a human.  I am interested in manipulating those
archetypes to create the changes I desire in my subjective
universe and guide me to greater spheres of action in the
objective universe.  


Response:

Sounds inherently dangerous for all the rest of us.  First you proceed
from ignorance to play with your deep mind.  Then you use 'archetypes'
to inspire you toward political/social activity.  Haven't we had enough
of this busibody mentality?  

SL} I don't see the danger in self-programming. You, Thyagi, are afflicted
SL} with the curse of Greyface (GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE)

von Franz:

I expect my path to have at least five
criteria:
 
A.  Self deification,  attainment of an enlightened,
independently existing intellect and its relative immortality.


Response:

This necessitates a 'non-enlightened state' from which you arose.
This indicates that you prop yourself up based on your supposed
'intellect' (anybody see 'The Wrath of Khan'?) and feel good about
yourself at the expense of others.

SL} I agree with Thyagi, this is baloney. 

von Franz:

B.  Individualism,  the enlightened intellect is that of a given
individual, not a collective body.


Response:

Now we're getting somewhere.  This is why I argue against TOS so
strenuously.  It seems NOT to fully promote individualism.  How can
an organization which HAS a formula, a philosophy, promote individual
authority???
 
SL} one must start somewhere. Most people don't know how trapped they are, 
SL} presumably the TOS will help them realize this (the "tool" aspect)

von Franz:

C.  Initiation, . the enlightenment and strength of essence
necessary to the desired state of evolution of self are attained
through stages created by the will of the magician, not because I
was "divine" to begin with.

Response:

Lots of seizing on the word 'enlightenment' for one who has given up
the goal of 'Nirvana'. ;>

This is garbled, and I don't think I understand the point.  Is 'divine'
now a 'bad word'?  So will creates a state of self (through some
'evolutionary' process, apparently) in which we may attain 'enlightenment'
and 'strength of essence'?  Sounds like more gobbeldy-gook that makes
the Jones' who DO it better than the Smiths who DON'T DO IT.  

Please define 'enlightenment' and 'strength of essence' without using
Buddhist and Christian explanations, since you seem to deplore them.
  
SL} Presumably, the goal of this org. is to lead the newbie (and magus) to
SL} a different (presumable "higher" meaning more useful/satisfying to the
SL} aspirant) state of consciousness.
 
von Franz:

D.  Magic, I think of myself as using my will in a
rationally intuited system or spiritual technology designed to
cause the universe around them to conform to their willed
patterns.


Response:

Ooooooooooo boy.  Now we get not only to use MATERIAL technology to fuck
up our environment, we get to use 'SPIRITUAL technology' too!  Imagine
if you will a bunch of somnambulant progs all 'manifesting their wills'
all over us!  Sounds like the world is in for a shit-fit.  The ignorant
and naive who gain power cause the most damage.
 
SL} the imminatizing of the Eshcaton (sp?!) Cthuluism is much more effective,
SL} though I suspect a connexion.

von Franz:

E.   Antinomianism.  I think of myself as "going against the
grain" of their culturally conditioned norms of "good and evil." 
I find it necessary to experience being an outsider -- more in a
figurative sense than a literal one.  This means a certain
identification with conventional evil -- be associating with the
products and attitudes that mainstream society condemns, I can
gain the spiritual independence to do the Work of becoming who I
would be."


Response:

This last fits directly in with individualism and makes much sense.
I tend to think that adversity through opposition brings resolution
of the psyche faster than conformity.
 
 
You (Uncle Setnakt now):

I hope this is of interest, my work that produces paychecks calls
and once again I must plunge into dependence on human
organizations.  And yet hopefully I exert more control here than
do those that sleep.  

Ia Cthulhu!
 
Uncle Setnakt [Edited for typos and presentation]


Response:

I find it interesting that you have Work that doesn't produce paychecks
and 'Work' that does.  This does not give me hope for TOS, especially if
you find the TOS philosophy so persuasive.

SL} more of Thyagi's Trademark, Sophistry; I, for one, Knew what U. Setk. was
SL} referring to; I don't think Thyagi was trying to be funny here.

Interdependence is an unavoidable thing, as you mentioned in your letter.
I only recommend that we all be very careful what dependencies we foster.
Some tools are better than others for securing what we desire.  Sometimes
even our desires will not lead us to lasting satisfaction.

I'm encouraged by your exclamation of Cthulhu.  By the way, did Aquino
keep up the writings about Cthulhu et al?  Is this what _Crystal Tablet_ 
contains?  Thanks.

SL} I'd like to know more about this mysterious "Crystal Tablet" myself, also
SL} encouraged by the Cthulhu mention; its tentacles are many.

-Scott (just Scott)

Newsgroups: alt.satanism