HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng)
Subject: Re: Wash sale - a sneaky way around?
Originator: acheng@shalom.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:56:48 GMT

I dig around my IRS publications and found the publication 550,
"Investment Income and Expenses" (1990).  Here is the introductory
paragraph, IRS Pub. 550, 1990, p.37,
    Wash Sales
    You cannot deduct losses from wash sales or trades of stock or
    securities.  However, the gain from these sales is taxable.

    A wash sale occurs when you sell stock or securities at a loss and
    within 30 days before or after the sale you buy or acquire in a
    fully taxable trade, or acquire a contract or option to buy,
    substantially identical stock or securities.  If you sell stock and
    your spouse or a corporation you control buys substantially
    identical stock, you also have a wash sale.  You add the disallowed
    loss to the basis of the new stock or security.

It goes on explaining all those terms (substantially identical, stock
or security, ...).  It runs on several pages, too much to type in.  You
should definitely call IRS for the most updated ones for detail.  Phone
number:  800-TAX-FORM (800-829-3676).  (I am not sure if the
publications for tax year 1992 are out yet.)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: etpeters@dal.mobil.com (E. T. Peterson(Eric))
Subject: Re: Oil Futures
Organization: Mobil Exploration & Producing Technical Center(MEPTEC), Dallas. 
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:57:38 GMT

In article <Bz60nA.Dts@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cs101a64@ih-nxt04.cso.uiuc.edu (cs101 student) writes:

|> You can also lose a Perot-size fortune in the futures market.  The futures  
|> market (as well as options, puts, calls, and commodities, which I know  
|> almost nothing about) is so risky that one tick can send you joining the  
|> ranks of the homeless. 

If you "know almost nothing about" these markets, which is obvious from your
previous posts regarding options and futures, why do you constantly comment
on them?

As I have posted previously in response to your frequent "one-tick" disaster
comments, only naive beginners or masochists would set up a position that
would be devastated by a large one-day move in the futures, much less a
"one tick" move.

By the way, the "commodities" market is a subset of the "futures" market.

*********************************************************************
Eric Peterson                  The sooner you fall behind,
Research Geophysicist          the more time you'll have to catch up!
(214) 951-3251
etpeters@drsol1.dal.mobil.com
*********************************************************************
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: etpeters@dal.mobil.com (E. T. Peterson(Eric))
Subject: Re: Oil Futures
Organization: Mobil Exploration & Producing Technical Center(MEPTEC), Dallas. 
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:47:27 GMT

In article <2387@sdrc.COM>, pmchapm@sgipm3.sdrc.com (john chapman) writes:
|> Keywords: 
|> 
|> A friend of mine had an interesting idea, and I thought I might get 
|> some opinions on it.  It seems that during the gulf war, the price
|> of oil per barrel shot up to $45 or so from around $18.  Now, its 
|> nearer to the $18 per barrel price I think.   His plan was to invest
|> a couple hundred bucks into oil futures hoping that Saddam would
|> get cocky and pull something as soon as Clinton steps in.  I'm not
|> sure how he calculated this, but he said that if the price went to 
|> just $35 per barrel, a $100 investment would soar to the multiple 
|> thousands in value.  Could someone verify or nullify this calculation,
|> and voice some opinions on the plan as a whole?
|> 
|> Thanks,
|> John
|> 

One contract of oil futures (the smallest amount you can purchase) is for 1000
barrels.  So for each $1 that oil rises, you will make $1000.  BUT BEWARE,
for each $1 that oil drops (if you are wrong on your guess) you will lose
$1000.  Also, you can do nothing with "a couple hundred bucks".  The mimimum
margin requirement for an oil contract is $1600, but you better have several
thousand dollars in your account so you won't have to close out your position
after a small drop in the price.  Most futures companies require $5000 minimum
to open an account.  The moral: there are no get rich quick schemes without
lots of risk.  (I've traded futures for 6 years).

*********************************************************************
Eric Peterson                  The sooner you fall behind,
Research Geophysicist          the more time you'll have to catch up!
(214) 951-3251
etpeters@drsol1.dal.mobil.com
*********************************************************************

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: tony2@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (gozdz,antoni s)
Subject: is it possible to get out of a cold-call commitment -legal question
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 17:19:44 GMT

Here is a question:

a broker calls my friend (no previous stock market
experience) and gets him to agree to purchase x shares
of a new-issue stock in a NASDAQ-quoted company.
Nothing is signed, but the broker was able to extract
his SS number. The prospectus and preliminary
confirmation arrive afterwards. 

The question is: is the transaction legally binding?
A guy at SEC claimed that once the broker was given the
SS number, the broker can use this information as proof
of an opening of an account. Was he right (NOTHING was
signed so far)?

Please e-mail any responses to
prefect.cc.bellcore.com, or post it to the net.

Tony

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Subject: Re: Body Shop (from "Don't Become Fixated on Mutual Funds")
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:50:09 GMT

In article <265@emtek.UUCP> werner@emtek.UUCP (Werner Ehlenberger) writes:
>> > >2. Body Shop (pink sheets)     Recent Price: 2 3/4
>> > >
>> > >retail stores in the U.S.  Traded on London Stock Exchange.
>> > 
>
>
>Is there any way to buy the stock in the US, if it is traded on the
>London Stock Exchange?

  
I've always heard people say any full-service broker can buy foreign
stocks. I use Schwab, however, so I called them and they told me they don't
trade foreign stocks but that Body Shop is indeed traded
in the Pink Sheets. Current price is 2 7/8-3 1/8 and I was told they
require that you buy at least 500 shares.
From: cs101a64@eng-nxt11.cso.uiuc.edu (cs101 student)
Subject: Re: Buying New Stocks On The Day They Go Public
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:20:54 GMT

In article <BzA9Ix.A5K@cs.uiuc.edu> watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe)  
writes:
> 
> The newspaper "Business Investor's Daily" (is the name right?)
> had an article today (Dec 14 1992) on initial public offerings.
>
The newspaper is called "Investor's Business Daily."
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: penny-stocks
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:46:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.223532.9269@rose.com> andrew.delic@rose.com (andrew delic) writes:
>
>Date Entered: 12-16-92 17:22
>
>CU>on the regular NYSE, AMEX, NASDAQ, and OTC exchanges.  For this reason,
>CU>pink sheet companies are either very new and small or about to go
>CU>bankrupt.  The pink sheets are notorious for extreme risk and ties to the
>CU>mob.  Thus, they are not for conservative investors or socially conscious
>CU>investors.
>
>I'm new to investing and 'playing the market' - and I recently bouught a 
>pile of shares which are penny-stocks.  My financial advisor told me he
>felt 'very comfortable' with this stock.
>
>I found out (after buying the stock) that penny-stocks are extremely
>dangerous and very risky.  I went for another visit to my advisor,
>and he re-assured me that this company has earnings, etc, etc.
>
>Should I be feeling safe with my money now?  After all, I am dealing
>with a reputable company and a professional advisor who is in tune with
>the market and knows what's going on and whats coming up, etc.

Who knows?  Penny stocks are, indeed risky.


Just a clarification:  "Pink Sheet companies" refer not to companies
that can be found in Pink Sheets -- many public companies can -- they
refer to companies which can only be found in the Pink Sheets and
in no other listing.  I'd bet you can get a Pink Sheet on IBM and it
isn't a penny stock yet.  (No smiley face)
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: avib@microsoft.com (Avi Belinsky)
Subject: Re: "Market efficiency" 
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:03:05 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <BzD4w7.J4F@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cs101a64@ih-nxt05.cso.uiuc.edu (cs101 student) writes:
|   Furthermore, many market inefficiencies have been found.  Simply buying  
|the stocks with the lowest PEs or price/book ratios has been a proven  
|method to outperform the market.  

Not that Malkiel speaks "The Truth (tm)", but I do believe him when
he says that there are no known provable methods that outperform the
indices on a risk-reward basis.  If low P/E or P/B stocks did outperform
the market, somebody would follow this investment strategy, bidding up
prices, and thus the efficiencies of the market would kill this "proven"
strategy.

|However, using these strategies is too  
|simple for most Wall Streeters (they think they have to know every detail  
|about a company except for the design of the floor tiles) and involves  
|buying laughingstocks (no pun intended).  If you were a mutual fund or  
|pension fund manager, what would your clients think of you if you owned  
|stocks like British Steel, Travelers, and Aetna and picked these stocks  
|simply on the basis of price/book ratio, PE, and yield?  They would drop  
|you like a hot potato in favor of a manager who bought stocks like Phillip  
|Morris, Home Depot, Microsoft, and WalMart.

Actually this is far from "too simple" for Wall Street.  Low P/E, and P/B
stocks are the backbone of Value Investing strategies (inluding Graham/Dodd)
and there are a whole host of funds that have Value Investment strategies.

- Avi
From: pagiven@druwa.ATT.COM (Paul Given)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: US Dumping Practices
Keywords: Agriculture, Infrastructure
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:46:03 GMT
Distribution: misc

We have seen many examples of reprehensible dumping practices that 
are promoted by foreign governments, that is, their local industries
are subsidized so as to permit selling of goods here at below production 
cost.  (I assume that such subsidy by private capital is OK, because no 
one would be stupid enough or have pockets deep enough to keep that up 
for very long).

How about US agricultural subsidies?  Do not price supports of wheat, 
corn, rice, etc., allow inefficient farm operations here to sell these 
products overseas at below production cost? How would you like to be a 
farmer in a third world country trying to make a living growing corn or 
wheat?

The Army Corps of Engineers also provides 'free' maintenance of inland 
navigable waterways.  Is this not reflected in product prices that would 
otherwise be higher?

The railroads offer subsidized transportation as well.  This means 
producers can offer products for sale below what they otherwise could.  
Not only because the cost of getting goods to market is cheaper, but 
subsidized transportation makes the cost of raw materials cheaper too.

In modern governments, it is all but impossible to prohibit governmental
assistance *OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER* to local industry.  Consider the list:  
special tax treatment, price supports, subsidized transportation costs, 
free education, government paid health insurance, etc., etc., are all 
reflected in the cost of doing business.  Does it matter that government 
assistance come in the form of free programs or cash?  Any of this kind 
of stuff can be considered dumping.  

Ultimately, I believe, the people of the country that does the dumping
will suffer a lower standard of living.  This is the price you pay for
selling below your true cost of production.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Given        {att, ihnp4, houxe, stcvax!ihnp4}!druwa!pagiven
AT&T Bell Laboratories 
11900 N. Pecos, Rm DR30K89, Denver 80234            (303)-538-4058
"I would have been a haruspex, but I didn't have the guts!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: mcaldon@igc.apc.org (McAldon International Inc.)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: ***(NEW EDITION) JAPANYES;VERY POPU
Date: 12 Dec 92 05:01:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Dec5.025113.17791@midway.uch:-1947113179:cdp:1426500306:000:806
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mcaldon    Dec 11 21:01:00 1992


|[...]
|industrial as well as political. I would like to see this analysis
|continue and deepen here on misc.invest and not be sent off somewhere
|else to die. This topic is not only very interesting, it is very important.
|Howard Petri

Geez, EVERYTHING impinges one way or another on how you invest.  Does
that mean we should consolidate ALL conference groups into misc.invest?
This thread, in particular, patently encourages heaps of stupid crap
along with some [very few] knowledgeable opinions. DMcKenzie
                           
|                        |      "Time is the best teacher.      |    
|    mcaldon@igc.org     |    Unfortunately, it kills all its   |
|                        |    pupils."   Hector-Louis Berlioz   |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
From: alicef@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Alice Farrelly)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:52:58 GMT
Subject: Re: NAIC....
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: misc.invest

Seems like you're more interested in flash than investing. I have found their
dividend reinvestment plan lucrative. In one stock I made an 18 % gain over 
13 months followed by a recent 3 for 2  stock split. My other NAIC DRIP stock
had an ~8%gain followed by a 4 for 3 stock split.  Just using a DRIP you 
save on the broker commisions. Now you don't need to go through NAIC, but I 
have used their worksheets to evaluate companies. In addition I took a class
on accounting & balance sheet analysis.  

I don't read the Better Investing Magazine cover to cover. I use it as a 
reference material - reading articles on stocks I'm interested in. 

Anyway - to each their own. I'm sure the other magazines are good as well
- Forbes etc. , but remember the audience NAIC is trying to reach, and their
purpose - which is to educate.  Unfortunately I don't think any magazine can
give you the upper hand advantage.  The only thing that would is having tomorrow's news today. 

Alice

p.s. My two NAIC stock picks were RPM, and Bob Evans Farms. - Boring as all get
out.
From: hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Sorry, my fault...
Keywords: IBM plunge
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:38:15 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <1992Dec16.034224.3595@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> ghuntres@nyx.cs.du.edu (Gary  huntress) writes:
>
>I really want to appologize to everyone for todays plunge in IBM stock.
>It was all my fault.  I bought some on friday, so obviously it was 
>headed for the dumper.  'cheez, you'd think I'd learn after buying
>Westinghouse at 23 (down from 27) - currently at 12.
>
>There, I feel better now.   Hmmm, maybe a couple of calls, after all
>its got nowhere to go but up! :-)))))
>
>Gary "buy hi sell lo" Huntress


Gary, could you please let us know what you are going
to buy next? I think the Usenet Short Club could afford
to cover your buys from the profits from our shorts.


:-)


-- 
David Neal -- hdnea@hou281.chevron.com 

My processes aren't dead! They're only resource impaired!
Computationally challenged!
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: cs101a64@dcl-nxt03.cso.uiuc.edu (cs101 student)
Subject: Rationality of the stock market (NOT!)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:47:24 GMT

Has it ever struck you that Wall Streeters behave as though the stock  
market were rational?  When analysts justify their buy/hold/sell ratings,  
they always talk about the outlooks of the companies and give scant  
attention to the price/book value (or PE) ratio.  It seems that Wall  
Street believes that if a company performs well, its stock price can only  
rise.  On the other hand, when a company has problems (which are sometimes  
blown out of proportion), Wall Street believes that buying its stock is a  
fast track to poverty.  Wall Street can never seem to realize that the  
popular opinion of a stock is already be reflected in its stock price  
(just look at the Nifty Fifty in 1973 and Chrysler in late 1990).  For  
this reason, aggressive growth investing is very popular, and buying  
British Steel or Travelers today would make you the Wall Street  
laughingstock (until these large, mature companies recover and make their  
shareholders rich).
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: cs101a64@dcl-nxt03.cso.uiuc.edu (cs101 student)
Subject: Re: _Securities_Analysis_
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:22:41 GMT

In article <1gl9i2INNpas@aludra.usc.edu> josephk@aludra.usc.edu (Joseph  
Kim) writes:
I am solidly convinced Graham-Dodd-Buffet style 
> value investing is the way to go, and I want something that describes  
the 
> *methodology* that embodies the principles described in the _II_.  
> More nitty-gritty the better.  I would not even mind something that goes
> "Step 1, do this, Step 2, do that," as long as those steps are the 
> implementation of _II_.
> 
> Joseph
> 
> p.s. Time to time I see a novice investor asking for book  
recommendation,
> and then some irresponsible netter suggesting some of the worst garbage
> ever published.  I hope to permanently bar anyything from Givens,  
Schwab,
> Lynch, Malkiel, and Zweig from entering into my personal library.

I was first introduced to value investing in a book called The Perfect  
Investment by Lowell Miller.  A newsletter called Investment Values is  
based on the strategy in the book.  Although several book reviews and  
Richard Band in a book called Contrarian Investing praise the book, I have  
not been able to find any record on how well the "Perfect Investment"  
method works, and I prefer the Graham-and-Dodd methods, because they are  
simpler and do not involve subjective technical analysis.  The "Perfect  
Investment" strategy looks for stocks that have crashed to a fraction  
their 5-year highs (the stocks must be below 20% to 35% of their 5-year  
highs, depending on several factors, like earnings growth, whether it is a  
utility, blue chip, etc.), sell below book value (unless there are  
undervalued assets), have no risk of becoming obsolete, have a "sign of  
life" (like a dividend, earnings, or cost-cutting), have made a technical  
bottom, and have made a technical turn.
Newsgroups: misc.invest,misc.consumers,misc.entrepreneurs,sci.econ,misc.legal
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: ***(NEW EDITION) JAPANYES;VERY POPULAR PAPER ON JAPANESE BUSINESS STRATEGY (1of2)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:09:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.210030.19549@oakhill.sps.mot.com> rvkl60@aus18a25.sps.mot.com (Tom Mathes) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.003933.28315@fx.com> raphael@fx.com (Glen Raphael) writes:
>>That's the theory. But can you find ANY example of it ever happening anywhere
>>in this century?  I thought not.
>
>Sure can.  The video game market is a small example (check out
>what Nintendo charges; the prices for games never change).  

Nintendo dumped?  I think it's a function of better marketing, and
a willingness to realize that the video game fad would come back after
Atari and others had given up on it.

>>Because a stupid US law wouldn't let them import flat gas-plasma displays to
>>California at the world market price. So once again we destroyed US jobs
>>and hurt US consumers in the name of economic competitiveness...Sigh.
>
>You're right; the government was stupid in not slapping tarriff on
>any imported product with the screens.

Great.  And how does that help us sell portables outside the US?
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: bhayes@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Barry Hayes)
Subject: Re: 1992 DJIA average contest
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:38:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.001642.24486@cbfsb.cb.att.com> klur@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (david.s.klur) writes:
>>I am not sure if I'll have InterNet access in the next two weeks
>>so this a repeat of the postings:
>>
>>[...]
>>3263	MEAN
>>
>>P.S. Interestingly enough, we are fairly close to the mean prediction now.
>>A forecasting method called DELPHI uses the mean technique.
>
>Yes, but in the DELPHI method, you ask for independent forecasts
>from "experts".  A sampling from the net does not ensure that your
>responses are from "experts" - sorry, netters!   
>

In the novel Shockwave Rider by John Brunner all sorts of
political/social events are subject to state-run betting, called the
Delpi Lottery.  And the state uses it to predict what will happen
based on bets by ordinary folk.  Just like the Presidential Futures.  

Anyone know how the Korean Election futures market is going?

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: bucknerb@bnr.ca (Brent Buckner)
Subject: Re: _Securities_Analysis_
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ontario, Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:22:27 GMT

In article <1gl9i2INNpas@aludra.usc.edu> josephk@aludra.usc.edu (Joseph Kim) writes:
>
>Thanks for all of your informative replies.  I asked for the review 
>of the _Securities_Analysis_ because I want to get to the next
>logical step beyond the _Intelligent_Investor_.  Based on the replies,
>it seems like _SA_ may not be the right way to go due to its readability
>and the subject matter.  I am solidly convinced Graham-Dodd-Buffet style 
>value investing is the way to go, and I want something that describes the 
>*methodology* that embodies the principles described in the _II_.  
>More nitty-gritty the better.  I would not even mind something that goes
>"Step 1, do this, Step 2, do that," as long as those steps are the 
>implementation of _II_.
>

"The Interpretation of Financial Statements" by Benjamin Graham
may interest you.

-- 
at Bell-Northern Research
voice:        (613) 765-2739
Canada Post:  P.O. Box 3511, Station C, Ottawa, Canada, K1Y 4H7
I do not claim that BNR holds these views.  
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: kuz@craig.cray.com (Brian Kuznia)
Subject: CAL
Reply-To: kuz@craig.cray.com (Brian Kuznia)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.  Eagan, MN.
Date: 18 Dec 92 09:53:44 CST

Hi,

	I am looking for comments on CAL.  My understanding its a Bank stock
based in California.   About a month ago it was trading around 1 1/2 - 1 3/8
and today is quoted at 3 1/8 .  A return of over 100% in one month.  

Thank you,
Brian Kuznia