From: szhou@remus.rutgers.edu (Shiyu Zhou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Question for Shi Chunde
Date: 31 Jul 92 10:45:38 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


The first reaction to a TIer's post is: "TIers are idiots.".  Well,
what a flame!  After think it again, I got to wonder how come there
are numbers of TIers in Taiwan.



In article <1992Jul29.153658.16306@oakhill.sps.mot.com> kenw@austlcm.sps.mot.com writes:

> In article <tGV-B8@engin.umich.edu> chen@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jian Chen) writes:
> >In article <1992Jul27.164312.2040@oakhill.sps.mot.com> kenw@austlcm.sps.mot.com writes:
> >>
> >>(1) Lincoln was a president - are you? 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Chen said He would like to follow President Lincoln.  That does not
necessarily mean he must be a president.  he just want to defend a
country having up to five thousand year history, if she is facing
seperation, as President Lincoln.


> >
> >I am not the president of China now. As the president of China must
> >be one of Chinese, I surely have the chance to be the president of
> >China. Excluding people who are disqualified for the
> >presidency and people who have permanent foreign residency, the
> >chance for me is more than 1 per billion.  
> 
> In other words, you were dreaming and made a stupid statement about invading Taiwan.
> 
> >
> >>
> >>(2) Lincoln was elected by people from the north as well as the south - are 
> >>    chinese who want to punish TIer's elected by Taiwanese?
> >
> >Lincoln was elected by people in USA not by the north or the south.
> >As a matter of fact, he did not win in many southern states.  
> 
> Doesn't America include the north and south states? You did not anwser my
> question? 
> 
> >
> >>
> >>(3) The purpose of Lincoln's Civil War was to free the slaves from the south -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


American historians must want to kill you, kenw.  The initiation of
Civil War is the seperation of the South from USA.  So the first goal
of Civil War is to unify America again.

And, I have noticed your saying, "Lincoln's Civil War".  Lincoln
didn't want such a war.  I guess even the South did not want American
people suffering such a pain.  As Chinese don't want there is a civil
war between Chinese.



> >>    what is the rulers of the blue ants want to do with Taiwanese?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Integration of China is not only the willing of the rulers in
mainland.  People there agree with their rulers on this issue.
Further more, Better not call Chinese "blue ants".  You are gentleman,
aren't you?


> >
> >The Civil War of United States was to defend the integration of this
> >country. This has been a well known fact in the world. 
> 
> Yes, in the world where you come from.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Is there any real argument for the above statement?


> 
> >
> >>(4) Lincoln was assasinated after the Civil War - are you willing to follow the
> >>    same path?
> >
> >If the unification of China needs me to sacrafice my life like President
> >Lincoln, I have no hasitation to do so. I will be proud of it because 
> >I know I will be memorized by Chinese people like President Lincoln be 
> >memorized by American people. 


Here is for Chen:
Good you will sacrafice your life for the nation.  But your
sacrafication better be unconditional, i.e. maybe without the
memorization of Chinese people as President Lincoln.



>  
> Allow me to borrow this from an e-mail I have received
> 
> "I studied Abraham Lincoln in my history class. I read Abraham Lincoln's
> works.  He is a personal hero of mine.  Jian Chen, you are no Abraham 
> Lincoln." 
> 
> 
> >
> >>
> >>(5) Lincoln was a great President in the US history - are you?
> >>
> >
> >Please ask this question after I become the president of China. The chance
> >for me to be the president of China is so small now. It is meanless to 
>                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >answer this question.  
> 
> Then it is very very irresponsible of you to make that stupid invasion statment.
> 
> >
> >>(6) America was a unified country before the Civil War - are Taiwan (ROC) and 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>    China (prc) the same country?  
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Presently, most of the countries in the world and U.N.  recognize PRC
as the government of China as well Taiwan is part of China.  Taiwan is
part of China but not under the contral of PRC.  Taiwan is under the
control of KMT which considers Taiwan as part of China.  So, at
present, PRC, representing China, has the right to claim Taiwan.  And
most Chinese people would like to see a unified China.  Except some
ugly ones. (If you are not regarding youself as a Chinese, don't flame
out.)



> >>
> >>TIer's are not trying to sepatrate your country. In fact, they don't even want to
> >>deal with your country. They are dealing with the KMT.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So, Taiwan is a country although she never has been?  KMT must not
agree with you.



> >>
> >
> >Taiwan is a part of China based on Cairo Decleration, Postsdam Agreement, San 
> >Francisco Treat and Sino-Japan 1972 agreement. All of the documents are well
> >registered in the United Nations.
> >
> >The civil war does not change the status of Taiwan just like the civil war in
> >United States does not change the status of southern states. China has the legal
> >claim on the territory Taiwan. Chinese people has all of the legal rights on 
> >the territory Taiwan.
> >
> >
> >J Chen
> >Department of Chemistry
> >University of Michigan  
> 
> ooooOOOOOOO, YES. I am glad you know some historical facts. Unfortunately, you
> forget to mention a very important one. Based on Cairo Decleration and others, 
> Taiwan is not a part of prc. 
>        
> Let me give me some more facts. 
> 
> - Having a Ph.D. in Chemistry does not necessary mean you know everyting. 
> - Robbing something from somebody does not mean you also own every single thing 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Taiwan is rich.  So TIers always worry someone someday may rob them. :-)



>   of him.
> - Do not mess with the Wolverines' reputation!



Taiwan is part of China for nearly two thousand years.  People there
write Chinese, speak Chinese, act as Chinese, and have Chinese names.
She was robbed by Japs for fifty years as Formosa.  And now Chinese
still are living there.

And why TI has such such a loud noise?  One of my taiwanese friends
put it: " they have big mouths."

I want to do something to persuade TIers as possible that TI is a
wrong cause and most likely never succeed.

TIers may have some reason too.  Take a look at present Arabs as
several nations.  They are speaking the same language.  They were
divided by their previous conquerors.

Lastly, if, regardless what means, TIers hold the power in taiwan.
And they dare to execute TI.  I can bet there is a civil war, i.e. PRC
invades Taiwan.  And I'm not sure if TI can hold the pressure from
mainland as well as from many many Taiwaneses.  And TIers can't expect
any external help.  None of the nations will view TI as right, even
the country recognizing ROC.  It is not the war in Yugoslavia.

I want to ask you, kenw, a question:
do you think you a Chinese?  If the answer is "NO", could I ask why
you writing chinese, speaking Chinese, being regarded as countryman by
other Chinesees?  (Here another funny question: do you participate any
Chinese association?)

Cheers,

ming
-- 
Ming  He
My account must have HIV, so this is not my account.
CLAIMER: I am from Beijing, China