HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Re: JPFO
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:25:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.124733.17659@husc3.harvard.edu> zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
>
>NM:
>>News of this organization comes on the heels of my discovering that
>>the Republican Party's chairman is a Jew.  A strange world.
>
>With all due respect, Norman, where do you see the relevance of one
>fact to the understanding of the other?

No rational relevance at all, my friend: I was free-associating,
marvelling at how nutty the world is getting.  (And you needn't
bother to tell me that it's always been.  I know that.  Just
claiming the privilege we all have of assuming that the world of
one's youth was normal.)

>
>NM:
>>It also reminds me, Mr. Reid, of the aphorism of Walther von Rathenau, 
>>foreign minister during the Weimar republic.  Von Rathenau, himself a
>>Jew, said: "When a Jew tells you that he hunts _and enjoys it_, he lies."
>
>Based on my personal experience, I assure you that von Rathenau lied.
>

I think you mean, Mikhail, that he would have been mistaken had he said 
that more recently.  The remark was made I believe before WW I and its
thrust was at such ironies as Jews being satisfaktionsfahig and the like
of that.  Things are of course different now, bringing me back to my
(privileged) sigh of vey iz mir.

>
>
>cordially,
>mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
>
Norman
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:12:44 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Israel and the diaspora

References:
 <92304.1853132893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA><1992Nov2.143745.6279@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
 <92312.0400382893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> <1e5c6iINNq11@pita.cs.huji.ac.il>


In article <1e5c6iINNq11@pita.cs.huji.ac.il>, aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il
(Hillel Applebaum) says:
>
>Many wrote - all deleted.
>
>The point is that while Zionism fights GALOT (diaspora), not all
>jews are Zionist. If a jew wishs to help the diaspora get bigger
>instad of Israel - then he isn't Zionist.
>Now, the question is: Must a jew be Zionist ? I say - YES.
>and if not so, and if you think not so, on what basis can we
>Zionist talk with you on this thing ?
>As a Zionist I'll tell you that I'll do my best to eliminate all
>GALOYUT by bringing them here (former USSR, Ethuopya (?) or the US)

Whether they want to or not? So much for free will! this explains Israel's
arrogant, patronising and coercive attitude towards Russian Jews and many other
 Jewish communities in the diaspora. Especially the policy of trying to
eliminate the opportunity for Russian Jews to go anywhere but Israel



>--
>
>-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
>/ Hillel P. Applebaum  |> ISRAEL - where all
>/ Jerusalem,   Israel  |  jews should live !
>-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: Seth Ness <ness@aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: Re: Women saying Kaddish
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <Seth Ness <ness@aecom.yu.edu>>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 07:07:30 GMT

i've seen women saying kaddish solo, at many orthodox minyanim all over
new york my entire life (23 years).



Seth L. Ness                         Ness Gadol Hayah Sham
ness@aecom.yu.edu                      




Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Tzitzit on ordinary garments
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:26:11 GMT

warren@nysernet.ORG (Warren Burstein) writes:

> The tallisists go around putting tzitzit on everything possible.
           ^

Caught ya!!  You closet Ashkenazi!

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Isaac Balbin)
Subject: Plastic Surgery [Was Re: Pierced Ears]
Organization: Collaborative Information Technology Research Institute
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:36:51 GMT

dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:

>As far as I know, yes.  The obly surgery that is permitted is that
>which is essential.  If you need a transplant or some other
>life-saving operation, you are obligated to have it.  But an operation
>for aesthetics (like a nose-job when you have no problem breathing) is
>not permitted.

This is not quite correct. There is a disagreement on plastic surgery
between Rabbi Waldenberg of Jerusalem, Shlita, and Rabbi Feinstein, OBM,
two of the greatest decisors of Jewish law in our generation.
The former forbids it, whilst the latter permits it under certain circumstances.

And NO, they do not discuss pierced ears.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: Himalayan Yogi online
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:53:59 GMT

In article <2842@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>In <1992Nov13.220733.6115@crash> classics@crash.cts.com (Baruch Schwartz) writes:
>
>>Kriya is a discipline which is open to all, Jew or non-Jew.
>
>So post to a non-Jewish group and leave us alone.
>-- 

Kriya(s Hatorah) is performed every week in every shul.  It is not
open to nonJews but it is required for Jews.  I would prefer Rabbi
Hirtz's explanations to that of some yogi (unless it was Berra
discussing baseball).

_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kach Policies
Date: 17 Nov 92 01:12:25 GMT
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ

In article <BxtwpK.Ksy.1@cs.cmu.edu> clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
 
# Assuming that Kach is indeed responsible for the following event, I
# would be quite interested in hearing how the following action can be
# justified within a Jewish context.
 
# ------- From Israeline --- Nov 16, 1992 -------
 
# Hand Grenade Thrown in Moslem Quarter Killing 70 Year-old Arab and
# Injuring Eight

# Israel Radio, KOL YISRAEL, reports that a hand grenade exploded
# this afternoon in a market in the Moslem Quarter of Jerusalem
# killing a 70 year-old Arab and injuring 8 others.  Before the
# incident, someone called a reporter from the newspaper HADASHOT,
# saying that the Kach movement intended to stage an attack in
# eastern Jerusalem. After the hand grenade had gone off, someone
# again called the same journalist saying that the Kach movement was
# taking responsibility for the grenade attack. The commander of the
# Jerusalem Police said that an intensive investigation is being
# conducted to find those responsible for the attack. No suspects
# have yet been apprehended.

	The incident, as described, cannot be justified within a Jewish
context.

	However, how can the liar who called the newspaper be justified within
any Jewish context?
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:18:28 GMT

In <1992Nov18.005516.933@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake
Livni) writes:

>The shrill criticism of Kahane by other Jews, did not enhance the
>position of Jews as much as it darkened the image of Kahane,
>deservedly or otherwise.  This very witch-hunt, which some Jews pursue
>with a sense of self-laudatory satsifaction, produced a jury in NY
>State that ACTUALLY BELIEVED that El Sayid Nosair did not shoot Kahane
>and that Meir Kahane was actually shot by one of his own followers in
>public in a Manhattan hotel.

You can prove that the fact that some Jews criticized Kahane PRODUCED
a jury which let Nosair go free?  Ok, I'll bite - I'd be interested
to see how you do this.  It seems to me that you're using what is evidently
a miscarriage of justice in the U.S. to try to silence Jewish opponents
of Kahane.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Why the double standard (was Re: Why I think Kach's policies ...)
Date: 19 Nov 92 09:23:57 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
>  My points were:

>1) The security of the state of Israel is not under immediate threat of
>attack or attack itself from any organized power (state), that I can
>see.
     The problem started  when planet Earth was created about spherical.
From your place, indeed, you cannot see.
     So why don't you come to the building where I have my office, I will
show you three and where a fourth hit 18 months ago.

Yaaqov "watching the scene on top of Mount Carmel" Goldberg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stas@netcom.com (Stanislav Malyshev)
Subject: Re: American Antisemitism
Keywords: antisemitism
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 08:33:55 GMT

In article <9866@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> milst1@cislabs.pitt.edu (Martin I Lewison) writes:
>
>Yeah, I pulled that article off clarinet.  One heartening thing:
>American antisemites tend to be white men over 60 who have no more than a
>high school education, according to the study.  So, our worst enemies will
>be dead soon.
>
>One disheartening thing:  In general, African-Americans are far more likely
>to be antisemitic than whites.
>
>-Martin 

Another disheartening thing is that the leftist majority (or is this an 
incorrect Bay-Area-inflicted impression) of american Jews pushes,
along side the blacks, for things such as increased welfare and clearly
racially motivated liberal pursuits, such as massive affirmative action.

While I am opposed to all this on moral and other grounds, I'd like to note
that the above-mentioned efforts aren't being "appreciated", given the
disproportionate figures in the anti-semitism inquiry.

Stan
-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stan Malyshev		|    Open up the windows and let the fresh air out,
stas@soda.berkeley.edu	|    said the television to the shackled children..
stas@netcom.com		|		- King Missile
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: WARRENS NAZI'S SLOGAN ( was:Re: Oral sex )
Date: 20 Nov 92 12:11:04 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <2867@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:

sign his article as:

>--
>/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
> |__/__/_/
> |warren@         "Warren's slogan is an Anti-semite slogan."
>/ nysernet.org                             Gideon Ehrlich



I mentioned the fact that warrens slogans :
" it is better to expel Jews than to oppose Arabs"  Is a Nazi's one.

warrenn agreed on a previous article that my translation is correct,
he hope the Israeli army to do the job for the PLO and to expel jews
from where ever they want .
But he says that a translation may partially reflect the translator
ideas.
So far he did not offer any alternative translation to his Nazi's
slogan.

Putting the warning about the feature of the slogan is not a
justification for continuing using it.
Even some countries permit propaganda for cigarets when a warning is
added, No country as far as I know aloud to do the same with heroin.

Warren repeatedly expressa  Nazi idea on this net.
He reprasents the usual moral-like leftists talk style,
they , generaly speeking, are driven by a blind hatered to Jews
but looked like supper-moral ones.
Warren never write in English the ideas he expresses  in Hebrew in
his poisoned slogan.

He should be stopped.

  Shalom      gideon
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Demons (was Re: Kosher Honey - Still no answer)
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:56:46 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization

In article <97466@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>I always forget whether one is permitted or forbidden to speak to
>demons on Shabbos.

You're clearly permitted to speak to demons on Shabbos if they speak to you
first.  Since demons like even numbers, if one comes up to you and says
"You and I are two" you're supposed to try to confuse it by saying "you and
I are three."

While I'm thinking about it, I'd like to dig up some good scary traditional
Jewish stories to tell.  I have the book _Lilith's Cave_ which is a nice start
but if anyone has other recommendations, I'd appreciate it.

Miriam Nadel
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:27:13 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Oral sex

In article <1992Nov18.034335.29132@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
says:
>
>In article <BxvM23.E10@fiu.edu> steinm2d@serss0 (Daniel Steinmetz) writes:
>
>#Judaism considers sex as "legal" only when it is done to reproduce...
>
>!?!
>
>As far as I know this is totaly incorrect. Judaism views sex as another
>way for married couples to communicate and express their love to
>each other, and not only as a tool for reproduction.
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
I agree, the concept of sex as bad is a Christian corruption, while Jews
believe sex should only occur in the confines of a marriage, everything
I've heard, even from Orthodox rabbis emphasises the Jewish belief that
sexual intimacy is a beautiful gift, something to be enjoyed.
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:54:10 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Kach and terrorism

From the Globe and Mail, 18 November 1992

(Reuter) Police in Jerusalem detained a member of an extreme right-wing Jewish
group yesterday in connection with a grenade attack that killed one Arab and
wounded 12. A police spokesman said a member of the Kach movement was
questioned about Monday's attack in the Old City.

Energy Minister Amnon Rubinstein asked the attorney-general to put the leaders
of Kach and the related Kahane Lives movement on trial for inciting terrorism
after the two groups praised the attack.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mark@cs.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Subject: Re: goy
Originator: mark@karp.albany.edu
Organization: The University at Albany, State University of New York
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:02:58 GMT

In article <1empbmINNbb9@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love) writes:
>However, the word as it is often used today--and 
>particularly as it derives from the Yiddish usage--is indeed
>derogatory.

Given the prevalence of discrimination, and even outright pogroms, in
the treatment of Jews by their neighbors over the past few centuries,
is it any surprise that the Yiddish word for non-Jew would have some
negative connotations?

Is that any reason to stop using it?


Viewed another way, should we stop calling ourselves Jews because the
word has had negative connotations for a number of non-Jews?


--Mark
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Why I think Kach's policies are racist (AND DANGEROUS)
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 16:08:20 GMT

In article <dfs.721804438@ro> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
>In <1992Nov15.002752.4810@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
>makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>>	Fine.  What will you tell Israel to do when its survival (both
>>demographically as a Jewish state and from a security persective)
>>leave Israel no choice but to either adopt Kach policies or "commit
>>suicide"?
>
>You're talking nonsense again.  You keep repeating this "doomsday"
>scenario, without any evidence to back it up.
   There you are, David (Makowsky). You are within the million mile
   limit. You refuse to present the sequence of events that will
   lead Israel to make the choice you describe above. In their absence,
   I am left only with prophesy.
From: todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: the Nature of Honey
Keywords: Entomology, honey, lice, 1st century science
Date: 21 Nov 92 12:28:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov21.122826.5400
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon

In article <1992Nov20.160349.547@cbfsb.cb.att.com> hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:
>Thank you for the explanation as to what exactly happens.  This is
>the reason given in the Talmud for bee honey being considered
>Kosher.  That is, the processing of the plant juices occur in the
>crop and outside the bees body.  Milk on the other hand is created
>within the body of the animal completely.  The fact that honey
>differs from the original material does not apply.  An analogy
>would be comparing cheese to milk.  The two are very different but
>the rules are the same.

I believe I understand your point, but I must differ about the conclusions.
The crop, where the bee stores the nectar, is an internal organ. The nectar
is actually ingested and stored inside the bee's body where various agents
are added to it. Later the proto-honey is processed outside the insect's
body where, again various bee juices are mixed with it. At both stages the
secretions of a treif animal are added to an otherwise pareve substance
which, to the best of my understanding, should render it treif. In the case
of kosher cheese the cow's contribution ends at milking time. Vegetable
or synthetic rennets catalyze the reaction from milk to cheese. I had heard,
although I may be mistaken, that cheeses made with real rennet (cow stomach
lining) are not kosher because they mix milk with meat (from a possibly 
incorrectly slaughtered animal at that).

I suppose that one can look to textual evidence within the sacred texts 
themselves to determine that honey is alright. There are many instances of
people eating honey, and the substance is referred to in glowing terms on
a number of occaisfions.


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Ellner  todd@reed.edu 
"What has the study of biology taught you about the Creator Dr. Haldane?"
JBS Haldane:"I'm not sure, but He seems to be inordinately fond of beetles."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: early man.
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:14:19 GMT

In <1eb4gkINN8jb@pita.cs.huji.ac.il> aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum) writes:

>Lets say that we find bones of a, science say,
>is 10000 years old man.
>Do we have to treat it as a remains of a man ?
>What about 12 milion year old human bones ? 

I would guess that a 10000 year old homo sapiens, for those who don't
say that creation happened 5753 years ago (plus the correction
recently discussed here) would be human.  At what point hominid
skeletons begin to be considered human from a halachic point of view
is an interesting question.

For those who insist on the accuracy of the figure, it would depend, I
guess, if they thought that the skeleton was actually that of a human,
but carbon dating (or whatever other method of establishing its age)
is inaccurate, in which case it would be that of a man.  Or maybe they
think that the world was created with fossils that "look" older, in
which case it wouldn't be that of a man (according to this view, is
mastodon meat from a nonkosher animal, or is it really a mineral?)

According to both groups, the skeletons certainly would not be those
of Jews.  I don't know if this would make any difference.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "Warren's slogan is an Anti-semite slogan."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: JPFO
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Date: 21 Nov 92 12:47:31 EST
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <1992Nov19.204450.20980@starbase.trincoll.edu>
nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller) writes:

>In article <1992Nov19.181637.26524@ttinews.tti.com>
>reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland) writes:

RK:
>>I'm trying to find out information about an organization called the
>>JPFO, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.  If anyone can
>>tell me anything about this group, please send me E-mail.  I'll post
>>a summary.  In particular, I'm curious how they compare to the JDL.
>>
>>Thanks.

NM:
>News of this organization comes on the heels of my discovering that
>the Republican Party's chairman is a Jew.  A starnge world.

With all due respect, Norman, where do you see the relevance of one
fact to the understanding of the other?

NM:
>It also reminds me, Mr. Reid, of the aphorism of Walther von Rathenau, 
>foreign minister during the Weimar republic.  Von Rathenau, himself a
>Jew, said: "When a Jew tells you that he hunts _and enjoys it_, he lies."

Based on my personal experience, I assure you that von Rathenau lied.

>>Reid Kneeland

>Norman Miller

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
who keeps and bears arms, but disclaims any affiliation
"Le cul des femmes est monotone comme l'esprit des hommes."

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Alia only with Brith-Mila?
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 07:36:50 GMT

After much hesitation, and because of a first follow up, I throw myself
into the deep cold waters.

I am an ignorant, I do not hold nor claim any right to tell people what they
should do or not. These are just a few remarks.

1-A Jew remains a Jew even if he sins/sinned.
2-I know of no ranking of sins in terms of importance.
3-It is a sin to put an obstacle on the path of another Jew, such as not
letting him accomplish some Mizwah. 
4-It is a sin not to try to make a Jew get away from sinning.
5-These weeks we read about Avraham Avinu. Our Sages teach us that all these
stories about our ancestors have two purposes, to let us know where we come
from, and to give us examples to be followed. Our Sages teach us that Avraham
was inviting for meals every person he could find; at the end of the meal he
was asking the guests to either recite Birchat HaMazon ( "graces" ???) or pay
for the meal.
6-Unless you are lucky enough to have one Zaddiq (Gamur, of course) in the
congregation, who is allowed and by whom to deny an Alyah to any individual
claiming to be a Jew, circumcized or not?
7-To educate both those who do not yet feel the need to get circumcized
as soon as possible, and those who  deny other Jews the right to recite Alyah
Brachot but nevertheless see themselves fit to raise a Scroll and recite "ZOTH
HATHORAH ASHER SAM MOSHE ..", you might think of charging some uniform Alyah
fee (what about 1 D.M. per Alyah) to EVERY person getting an Alyah until that
person will have stated that he has duely been circumcised. You would of course
not oblige anybody to actually pay, and you could announce that the income
would of course fully go to the local Mohel or Mohalim. You would cumulate
the debt, until paid, or until waived when the person states he was circumcised.
This bookkeeping and the statement must of course be kept confidential.
8-Note that all the above assumes that the person is a Jew; otherwise the
problem is completely different. The question then would be, is/was the mother
Jewish, or a conversion achieved, not the circumcision. 

Now, I switch my status to "KONENUTH SPHIGA" as we say here in the Land of
Avraham Avinu.

Yaaqov Goldberg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish