From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Feminism's Lesbian Leaders (was: Why are there only men on)
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:14:24 GMT
	<1992Dec28.190731.12467@netcom.com>
	<168CBECFB.SURGDM@mizzou1.missouri.edu>
	<1993Jan2.032141.18000@netcom.com>
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: payner@netcom.com's message of Sat, 2 Jan 1993 03:21:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.032141.18000@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>In article <168CBECFB.SURGDM@mizzou1.missouri.edu> Diane writes:
>>In article <1992Dec28.190731.12467@netcom.com>
>>sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>>>  (re: Morgan, Ireland et al)
>>>And this gaggle of lesbians is presuming to instruct heterosexual,
>>>family-oriented women on how to deal with men!
>>*That's* what they're trying to do!? Ohmigod! Thank heavens that there are
>>still big strong manly men like you to save our precious childbearers
>>from the lesbian scourge! What would we little dust-fer-brains *ever* do
>>without you? (hint: I don't know, but I'd be willing to find out...)

>Actually Diane, I think it is a valid point. What basis do lesbians have
>for giving heterosexual women advice about men?

Perhaps it is easier for them to see the problems (and solutions) from
outside?  What basis does a male, heterosexual psychologist have for
giving advice to a woman on how to deal with men?  For that matter, what
basis does *anyone* have for giving advice to someone else on a
relationship they are not involved in?  Relationships and needs are very
similar for *people*, regardless of the sex or orientation of the people
involved.  Lesbians and gay men generally have a slight advantage, in
fact, because they have *had* to think about their roles in
relationships, unlike heterosexuals, who *can* (but don't always) simply
accept the societally-ordained roles.  So, for a woman who does not wish
to stick with the societal roles, a lesbian might be the best person to
advise her, as the lesbian has probably considered all possible roles
for herself in relationships and made choices, rather than just
following a predefined path.

>I could see going to a
>lesbian friend for emotional support. But advice about how to work -with-
>a husband would not seem to be the expected advice.

Why not?  Is working with "a husband" different from working with any
partner?  Is there something special that has to be done for "husbands"
that would not be done for other partners?

>How can one advise about something one knows little about,

Why do you think that lesbians know "little" about relationships?  Why
should they know any less than anyone else?

>or perhaps
>something which one finds distastefull or perhaps even hates? 

I assure you that lesbians do not, on the whole (certainly, some
individual may) , find emotional, romantic, or sexual relationships
distasteful.  Perhaps, before making more statements about them, you
should get to know some.  Of course, that could be difficult, if you go
in with such ridiculous preconceptions.  If you ever try, remember that
just because they are unwilling to accept *clueless* men does not mean
that they are therefore unwilling to accept men in general.

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                      | ~Can you tell me how much bleeding/it
muffy@mica.berkeley.edu            |  takes to fill a word with meaning and/
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm   |  how much how much death it takes/to give
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.|  a slogan breath?~ - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: alt.feminism,alt.abortion.inequity