HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .38/.357 defense load spectrum
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:22:49 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


/ iftccu:rec.guns / webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods) /  2:19 pm  Aug 25, 1992 /
In article <79=nns=.feustel@netcom.com> feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel) writes:
#Why not have whatever pistol you buy drilled with compensator holes
#to reduce recoil?
#-- 
#Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
# 


#There is of course MAGNAPORT (slots cut in the top end of barrel).
#
#Also, in latest Handgunner magazine there's a description of a
#hybrid porting done on some Taurus revolvers which is supposedly
#very effective in reducing muszzle lift w/o a large velocity
#penalty.  (A series of gradually larger holes in top of barrel
#as you go toward muzzle - looks weird).

Remember, on some stages of some types of competition shooting and in 
self defense shooting, you can get into some weird positions.  You have to 
keep in mind that many (All?) of the porting jobs can give you a face full
of hot abrasive gas just when you DON'T want it.  Porting probably 
has it's place for some types of competition and hunting, but I'm not 
sure you would want it on a self defense weapon.

Rick.
From: glock@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: hand loading question
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:07 GMT
Organization: College of Business, University of Florida

A friend and myself are interested in beginning to load our own rounds.  I 
have no experience, and his is limited.  Can I get some recommendations on 
fairly low-priced good quality loaders?  Also, I have heard that buying a 
good dye makes life immeasurably easier, so could someone tell me who makes 
the best 30-30, 10mm, and 9mm dyes?  Where is a good place to order them 
from?  Thanks in advance...






Joe

****************************************************************
**                 glock@chip.cba.ufl.edu                     **
**                                                            **
**     "When the going gets tough, the tough get a GLOCK."    **
****************************************************************
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Non-lead bullets, some ponderings...
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:12:56 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <71502@apple.Apple.COM> ems@Apple.COM (Mike Smith) writes:
#
#
#I was pondering the statement that Fiocci had non-Lead primers (and 
#resolving to find them somewhere since I don't like breathing lead
#fumes and would like to get some of those primer powered plastic
#bullets for indoor use ... and sometimes get a pretty good whiff
#of smoke in my face at the range, too) when I started thinking about
#the bullets ...
#
#After a while with the Periodic Chart, I had a fairly limited set of
#candidates for a 'non-lead' bullet.
#
#It looks to me like an 'all tin' bullet would be workable (maybe using
#lead free solder?  95% tin 5% antimony.) for a light bullet.  (a 158 grain
#lead bullet would be a 101 grain tin bullet).
#
#It also looks like maybe some kind of Bismuth/Indium alloy might work
#too, and still be 'heavy', but I don't have much info on the toxicity
#of bismuth or indium, and less info on costs or availability.
#
#Tin solder is running about $8/lb.  Is there anything else that would
#prevent me from casting some non-toxic bullets, other than cost?  
#
#Does anyone have a harness number for tin?  for tin solder w/5% antimony?
#
#I know that Zinc bullets have been made, but they were VERY hard and
#would be classed as body armour defeating (and, thus, Politically Incorrect
#here in the Free State of California ;-)  Does anyone know if a tin/zinc
#alloy bullet would be workable ( and if zinc is cheaper than tin ...)?

I believe tin is classed in the Federal regs as not being legal for
handgun bullets <solid tin that is>. I had the letter I obtained from
BATF in front of me last night, I wish I had read this then. It'll
take me a while to re-find it <just moved>. If any bullet you make 
defeats body armor and you don't have the manufacturer's licenses,
it could be an all expenses paid vacation at the courtesy of the
Bureau of Prisons.

-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Thi Huynh)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: In Quest of Quiet ... what makes a quiet gun?
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:53 GMT

#From article <1992Aug24.193528.7961@btree.uucp>, by btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale):
# In article <1992Aug22.000644.18959@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
# #I'm hoping to find out what makes for a quiet 'report' from a gun.
# 
# [ much deleted ]
# 
# If you live in a state that allows, get a suppressor.  Unfortunately,
# from your address, it looks like you are in California so this probably
# isn't an option.
# 
# Use the longest barrel that you can reasonably handle, avoid all
# the magnum rounds, and go for a bullet/powder combination that
# peaks its pressure quickly and falls to a low level by the time
# that the bullet reaches the muzzle.

The use of longer barrel does not necessarily allows the gun to be more
quiet.  A longer barrel allows more complete powder burning, which in
turn MAY produce higher pressure at the muzzle.  In automatic weapons 
(especially ones which use a straight blow-back design) longer barrel 
may allow the action to open quicker, thus high pressure gas can escape.
In these blow-back guns, bullets can reach supersonic velocity in a
longer barrel.  All of these contribute to a louder gun.

All these factors need to be considered when putting a silencer onto a
gun.  If you want to silence submachine guns or machine pistols, it is
better to do it with a short barrel.

-tt
From: smccusk@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Sean Mc Cusker)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 40 S&W Loading data
Date: 4 Sep 92 02:33:15 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Does anyone no of a good source of .40 S&W reloading data.  (pressures , etc.)?
From: syoung@pecanpi.UUCP (Stan Young)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beretta 92 problems
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:22:28 GMT
Organization: Pecan Pi, Doraville, Georgia


In article <17egf9INN1ec@agate.berkeley.edu> ho%helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Kinson Ho) writes:
#I have a couple of questions for owners of the Beretta 92FS (9mm, fullsize)
#
#a. Are you happy with its performance?  Have you had problems with it? 
#   How many rounds have you put through it?  (I am interested in long
#   term reliability.)  Do you have the blued or stainless model?
#   Is rusting a problem?

My 92 has performed flawlessly - feeds everything you through at it, handles
dirt and mud without problems, and shows little wear after several thousand
rounds.  I've got the Bruniton finish on it; rust is the LAST thing you'll have
to worry about.

#b. [I am aware that the cracked frames in the armed services trials 
#    were attributed to "hot" ammo.]

Tired old allegations deleted.

Old stories die hard.  I'd suggest that you look up the article on the subject
in the American Rifleman (sometime in the last year).  Suffice it to say that
when you subject a gun to a steady diet of proof-load pressure rounds, it
may let go after a while.  No one else's guns handle that, either.

#
#
#c. Does the 92 feed the popular hollowpoints without jamming?  

Yep.  It feeds very reliably.  

#d. If you had to do it over again, would you choose the 92?

For a full sized gun, it is as reliable as they come.  Yes, I'd do it again.



-- 

Stan Young                                {emory, slammer}!pecanpi!syoung
From: RRUBERT@CISNCC.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SKS 30 round magazines; Legal?
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:27:24 GMT




#Frank Cary fcrary%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU

#As far as I know, the importation ban only applys to importing the weapon:
#If it is already in the country there shouldn't be a problem. I
#believe a 30 round magazine on a SKS is legal under federal laws, but I
#have no idea about local or state laws.

#                                                    Frank Crary
#                                                    CU Boulder



	A couple of follow up warnings. SKS's with detachable mags
	are illeagal assualt weapons in sunny Kalifornia. Also the
	BATF has said that if a weapon config is illeagal to import
	then it is illeagal to posses. This has been specifically
	stated for folding stocks on the SKS. Of course the BATF is
	like the IRS, they do bluff and it takes guts to call.



				Rod Rubert

	Who speaks only for Rod Rubert
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .38/.357 defense load spectrum
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:19:55 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <79=nns=.feustel@netcom.com> feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel) writes:
#Why not have whatever pistol you buy drilled with compensator holes
#to reduce recoil?
#-- 
#Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
# 


There is of course MAGNAPORT (slots cut in the top end of barrel).

Also, in latest Handgunner magazine there's a description of a
hybrid porting done on some Taurus revolvers which is supposedly
very effective in reducing muszzle lift w/o a large velocity
penalty.  (A series of gradually larger holes in top of barrel
as you go toward muzzle - looks weird).

BDW
From: tcmaint@sail.labs.tek.com (-Broadband Network Maintenance)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Barns X-Bullet
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:57:01 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.



Netters,

I am interested in any first hand experience with Barn's new X-Bullet.
If any has shot one or more animals with them please post the results or 
send me email.

Please inclued animal taken, shot placement, tissue distroyed, and distance 
to animal.

I am most interested in 30 cal, 150 gr x-bullet stories, but am interested in
all others too.

Thank you in advance,

--Bruce
From: jca@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 s&w questions
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:09:25 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

In article <9208290548.AA16254@outmail.microsoft.com> alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel) writes:
#bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:
##
##Rule #1 for gunfighting: Bring a gun.
#
#Quite true.  But does anybody know rule #1 for KNIFE fighting?
#
#Bring a gun!   :-)

No, keep the perpetraitor at least 7 yards away from you so you can
ready your gun.  A gun is ineffective at distances less than 7 yards if
the gun is holstered.
--

     // JCA

 /*
 ** ARPA    : crash!jca@nosc.mil | 13 + 1 = 228... 
 ** INTERNET: jca@crash.cts.com  |
 ** UUCP    : crash!jca          |           SIG-Sauer P228
 */
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: tumbler
Date: 3 Sep 92 00:12:11 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <59975@mimsy.umd.edu> purtilo@cs.umd.edu writes:
#So, who knows about both rock tumblers and brass tumblers?  I already
#have a Dillon tumbler for polishing up brass.  My wife wants to do some
#project concerning rock polishing in the fourth grade class she teaches.
#Even though my colleagues assure me I have rocks in my head, I do not 
#know much about polishing stones, etc.  So what's the scoop?  Do I already
#own what my wife needs? (My guess is not, but it would be nice to find
#out otherwise before I plunk down more cash on a different unit.)  What
#different media would I need if the Dillon *is* appropriate?  Thanks 
#much ---

I don't think you have it.  I have seen vibrating polishers in manufacturing,
but the media is SERIOUS stuff.  The best is the old Thumblers Tumbler.  These
were the first brass tumblers and I believe they got thier start do rocks and
things and we shooters just stole 'um out from unders the rock hounds.  I 
still have one of these and a vibrator.  I use the tumbler for stubborn stuff.
Removing headstamps, etc.  You can use dry media, but for brass - a little
dish soap, some vinegar (and if you like the satin finish a couple of table-
spoons of abrasive cleanser).  Tumble over night, rinse and dry completly
before using.  It is that last part that is the problem.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:20:07 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <9208201250.AA14851@Early-Bird.Think.COM>, rpalmer@Think.COM (Ralph Palmer) writes:
# I'm posting this to remind all of you to keep track of your ammo.  When 
# I was about 12 years old a friend of mine came back from a trip visiting
# his uncle and managed to find (or steal) a couple of .22 bullets.  We had
# no firearms available but that didn't stop us.  We put a bullet in a vice,
# aimed it at a sheet of plywood at the other end of the cellar and gave it 
# a whack.  The bullet ricochet off the wall and into the washing machine
# leaving a nice little dent.  His dad figured it out and gave it to us
# pretty good.  I'm sure glad my friend didn't "find" a .45 bullet!!
# 
In the same vane:

There was a store in the Arizona Republic last year with a similar 
situation.  A 16 yr old boy was sitting in his room playing with
a bullet (I think it was a 9mm or .45).  He hit the end of the 
cartridge and it discharged sending the bullet throught the wall
an into his mother (she was only mildly injured).  

Just go to show that common sense *isn't* common!


-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black Talon Bullets
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:09:02 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep2.194222.23828@icd.ab.com> kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead) writes:
#
#Well, it sounds like the Black Talons should work, but...
#
#What happens when you dust a bad guy and the prosecutor finds out about this
#b-a-a-a-d ammo you've been using?  Wouldn't you find yourself in the same
#potential fix as the guy who used special handloads?
#


When it gets to a point that a prosecutor is involved you are already
in a "potential fix".  It is understood that the use of lethal force
is justified under strict +/- self-defense scenarios to stop, not
necessarily kill the attacker.  A one-shot stop is arguably better
(from the defender's view at least) than a multiple shot stop which
may well be far more lethal even with a small caliber weapon.

Black Talon is a somewhat graphic name but then so is Hydra-shock;
ordinary factory jhp's might be a better choice for the home and
likely a better choice than handloads.

BDW
From: leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black Talon Bullets
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:02:18 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <1992Sep3.005219.21697@leela.cs.orst.edu> storm@atlantis.cs.orst.edu (Mutant Wierdness) writes:
:dwc@philabs.philips.com (David W. Cuccia) writes:
:
:#I was visiting my brother a while back, and found his July copy of Shooting
:#Times. In it was an article about Black Talon bullets. I forget who the
:#manufacturer was.
:#My question is, has anyone else heard of these things? They're still in the
:#experimental stage (supposedly). 
:I think the company that made them went out of business. You can find them 
:being liquidated by several mail order places.a
:# storm@atlantis.cs.orst.edu                                                  #

They were introduced by Winchester to the commercial market a few
months ago.  You can probably find or order them from your local gun
shop.

Lee

"Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei."

|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
From: kemasa@ghost.hac.com (Kemasa)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun show schedule wanted!
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:20 GMT
Organization: Natural Order Nature Experiments (N.O.N.E.)


In article <9208262019.AA19386@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov> minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang) writes:
#I would appreciate any info (Date/time) on upcoming GUN SHOWS around
#Los Angeles area. Thank you very much. 

I would also like the information, as I am sure others would.
-- 



						 Kemasa.

Insanity is the best defense.

Sierra Club Leader	NRA Life Member		Pro-freedom	Pro-choice

e-mail address: kemasa@ghost.hac.com
From: mike.federchuk@rose.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: stupid shooter tricks
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:29 GMT

Date Entered: 09-02-92 03:32


PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU (BILL PATE, ADMIN. SERVICES, PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU) writes:

P(|Reading the account of stupid shooter tricks by skeet shooters, I
  |realized that they might have different safety rules that the rest of
  |us. We had a championship class skeet shooter in our gun club once.
  |He came down to the indoor range to experience small-bore shooting.
  |After each round he passed the barrel of the still-loaded rifle across
  |the crowd, as he checked with his spotter for his progress. He also had
  |the nasty habit of resting the muzzel on the toe of his shoe and leaning
  |on the butt plate. I have noticed, however, that some shooting suppliers
  |sell leather toe pads for skeet shooters to save scuffing their shoes, so
  |I guess that must be acceptable.
  |By the way, he got mad and left when someone brought up his un-safe
  |gun handling.

Speaking as a novice skeet shooter (I've only been shooting for one year), I
have to agree with you.  The lack of muzzle control displayed by some skeet
shooters is astounding!  From what I've seen, trap and sporting clays shooters
are no better.  I can't count the number of times that I've seen some one rest
a gun barrel on a foot.  I've even seen pump and semi-auto shooters emulate
their hinge-gun shooting cousins by resting the barrel of their gun on a foot;
and using it like a cane!

Then there are the hinge-gun shooters who, after opening the action, rest the
"bent" gun on their shoulder.  Sure the action is now open, but the barrel is
pointing at their partners mid-section.  I was even hit in the head by the but
of one such carried gun, as the shooter turned around to talk to some one else.
Shades of an old "Laurel and Hardie" film.

Another infamous chap at my club bought himself a semi-automatic shotgun, after
shooting a super-imposed hinge-gun for years.  Since it was "convenient", he
decided to load five shells into the gun, on station one.  He broke the high
house, broke the low house, broke the double, then stepped off the station with
his "repeat"-shell chambered and ready to go; safety off!  When the cries of
"SAFE THAT GUN!!" from his shooting buddies caused him some alarm; he racked
open the action.  Out popped the shell.  Now he loads according to the rules.

Two skeet clubs in my area have even proposed banning pump and semi-automatic
shotguns, on the grounds that it is too difficult to tell if the action is
open!  The Caliden club may even be enforcing this ban.

Sadly, I could go on and on with tales of un-safe gun handling. :-(

Regards,
Mike

Mike Federchuk              |
Burlington, Ontario, Canada |
mike.federchuk@rose.com     |
---
   OLX 2.2   Biology grows on you.
   RoseMail 2.00 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black Talon Bullets
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:08:49 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Sep2.194222.23828@icd.ab.com> kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead) writes:
##I've personally seen the demos on these; they are impressive.  IMHO
##they will prove to be more effective than other jhp's as "stoppers"
##and will change the Marshall statistics after a few years of field
##use results.  They expand into a wide jagged projectile and would leave
##a real mess for a surgeon to repair - if possible.
#
#Well, it sounds like the Black Talons should work, but...
#
#What happens when you dust a bad guy and the prosecutor finds out about this
#b-a-a-a-d ammo you've been using?  Wouldn't you find yourself in the same
#potential fix as the guy who used special handloads?

I should think that the defense of "I was using factory ammo" should
keep the prosecution from starting the "mad bomber in basement"
picture.  It's not as good as using what the local police (or a
suitable big city) use, but a lot better than personal reloads.

-- 
.signature: not found.  Create?
From: rwalton@NeXT.COM (Robert Walton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black Talon Bullets
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:54:54 GMT


In article <9208311650.AA15801@philabs.Philips.Com>  
dwc@philabs.philips.com (David W. Cuccia) writes:
# 
# 
# I was visiting my brother a while back, and found his July copy of  
#Shooting Times. In it was an article about Black Talon  
#bullets....[deleted stuff].  My question is, has anyone else heard of  
#these things? They're still in the experimental stage (supposedly).  
#...[deleted stuff] can anyone tell me the manufacturer of these bullets?


They're already available over the counter, so to speak, in 9mm, 10mm, S&W  
40, and .45 ACP and soon should be available in .357, .380, and .44, or  
so I'm told by the gunshop.  They're made by Winchester.  I've held the  
expanded bullet in my hand (they had some promo examples on hand) and the  
photos don't do it justice...this thing is NASTY!  I'm laying odds that  
some bureaucratic bonehead will try to make them illegal as soon as some  
idiot uses them on the street.

BTW, on a realted subject, I still haven't seen PMC El Dorado's new  
Starfire bullets on the shelf at my gunstore, but I've seen the adds.   
Maybe they're selling somewhere else.  Both bullets have been described in  
various articles in gun mags [sorry, I don't remember which specifically].

===========================
Join the NRA now, and VOTE!

NOTE:  This posting represents the opinions of the poster only, NOT those  
of NeXT Computer, Inc.  The poster is not a gunsmith nor an expert giving  
advice regarding firearms performance, nor does he endorse the products  
mentioned in this posting as safe or superior to any products mentioned or  
unmentioned.  All liability for firearms use, ownership, and purchase is  
assumed by the firearms owner.  Safe and responsible firearms use is every  
gun owner's responsibility.  Blah, blah, blah...ad nauseum.