From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: eh?
Organization: The Great Beast 666
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 09:04:01 GMT

(1)

kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)

Oooh. An Arch Enemy. Whee! I love challenges. Holmes had Moriarty,
I have Kettenring. For a while; until we tire. We can go 'round and 'round,
duking it out - until - ? Well, nobody really goes home bloody from these.
All in good fun!

(2)

S - skeptic
A - astrologer

S: your discipline is bogus.
A: why do you think so?
S: because it's not scientific.
A: didn't say that it was.
S: well, it's bogus, because it's not scientific.
A: it's a discipline like psychology; it's not like civil mechanics.
S: nonetheless, if it won't pass rigorous statistical tests, it's bogus.
A: those tests aren't designed to measure the effects of my work.
S: if your work can't pass my tests, it's bogus.
A: why is that?
S: because I say so.

(3)

Not a bad characterization of my feel for some of what has passed here.
'S' makes flat statements and is not interested in exploring the issue.
If I make an offer to explain, the response should be a series of 'why'
questions - you'll find out much quicker what I do and don't know about
my own practices. You may find out that your image of what we're precisely
discussing may change. Maybe not. I won't claim that astrology will work
for anyone but myself; I'll only say I think it could - with application.
Those not enough interested to explore the subject firsthand mustn't be
much interested in it - they're free to hold their opinions; but their
claim that what I'm doing is false, is itself false, if I am right to say
the discipline is experiential and subjective in large measure, dealing
as it does so extensively with human psychology and human archetypes -
learn from me or learn for yourself, but without an investment from the
skeptic, the skeptic only has a crowd of skeptics' opinions to use to
maintain and expand their knowledge. I'm *not* a "skeptic", as if it were
a religion that I'm proud of; so I don't invest myself in learning the
ropes of skeptical inquiry, etc. - but I don't make a case against skepticism
either, because I know I'm not qualified - and since I'm not interested in
it, neither do I spend my time with it. I have a skeptical attitude towards
various things, and I also have the freedom to keep an open attitude as
well. That I will suspend judgement and evaluate the thing for myself in
the way I perceive - it can speak for itself. Part of awareness is the
awareness of how my awareness is filtered, a subject at least as important
as the issue of awareness itself.

I believe in Astrology because I want to and choose to. It does not violate
my belief system to do so; my belief in it is not in much conflict with my
rational processes, as my experience has shown me. None of this is up for
negotiation with another person: that I've had the experiences that I've
had; or as to whether it is a proper belief to hold. I have no shame for
holding these beliefs - and not the time to provide exhaustive detail
regarding those beliefs, nor to spend time defending them apart from doing
the work itself. I don't care to make converts, it's not my mission. All
I have decided to do is be open about what I do, regardless the opposition
it encounters. It sells itself well enough in a sphere large enough for me
to take satisfaction in doing it openly, and I am glad to see it received
by as many people as do. That suffices. That's the extent of my policy about
my personal use of it.

I'm here to demonstrate it, not defend it. I have no further interest in
engaging in a debate about it, I will leave that to others who enjoy that
expenditure of their time. I am free to pick up threads here and there,
and free to ignore them, and I shall.

I'm free to put my time at the disposal of maximizing my pleasure - the
discussion and back & forth over these things is often dry and boring.
If you want to sharpen your wits with me, there are other topics I much
prefer to do that with - humor, society, being human, being crazy.

If you think this seems rather one-way, that's okay. I never said 'you should';
I said 'I do.'

Your move.
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