HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: 18 Nov 92 14:36:57 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <1992Nov16.184628.42478@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:

>David L. Cathey (davidc@montagar.com) wrote:
>: 	You're right, he is coming around!  He wants to stop giving freeloaders 
>: free football programs!

>OK, how about if we also stop giving freeloaders free math and science programs?

And so we get back to the whole question of the purpose of public
education and whether we should be paying for it or not.  John
apparently thinks not, and so has no problems with the system being
'broken' (rather than evidence that the system needs to be fixed, this
is evidence that the system should be thrown away) or with defending
things to KEEP it broken.  Others feel differently.  Of course, if you
do away with public schools entirely, you are once more left with the
problem of just how people from the bottom of the economic ladder are
going to pay for an education, but John has already expressed his
admiration for social Darwinism, so I guess that isn't an issue for
him. 

>: 	If football players are as stupid as you think John, soon there
>: will be no high-school or college football.

>*I* think they're stupid?  Who's the one saying that they don't know enough to
>decide what they want to do for a living?

There's a difference between 'stupid' and 'immature', John.  

>: The Pro teams will be forced to
>: start "Football Schools" themselves to get new players for the rookie ranks.
>: Kind of like military academies.  Those wanting to pursue that line can do so
>: without the expense.

>Not a bad idea.  It would also apply to engineering companies starting up
>engineering schools and newspapers starting up journalism schools, etc. etc.

>: 	We're with you John...  You just don't want to actually want anyone
>: to *DO* anything to change the system, just bitch about it.

>Not when the cure is worse than the disease.  No.

Exactly right, and your 'cure' for the lack of 'liberty' for these
CHILDREN is much worse than the disease.

>: 	Let us assume that John is 100% correct here.  This is an actual
>: confession that John probably does only just what it takes to get by and stay
>: employed at IBM (for now, watch out John, layoffs are here...).

>I *chose* to work at IBM.  I'm not here just so I can keep playing football.
>Do you see the difference?

But why should you do any more than it takes to stay employed at that
choice, John?  I think that's the question.  It's undoubtedly a low
shot, but we've been seeing a lot of those around here lately -- as
you ought to be aware, as one of the originators.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: 15 Nov 92 15:39:15 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: Los Tejanos SCUBA Club and Beer Joint, Austin, Tejas

In article <1992Nov14.003656.28432@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> tcm@roma16.austin.ibm.com (Tom McDonald) writes:
>   ...precisely why we need a fundamental right to not have religion forced
>upon us:  the tyranny of the majority.  Heinlein was right (about the most
>likely way the U.S. gov't could be overthrown).

Wrong answer.  What we have right now is exactly the opposite.  Children
in school can pray over their lunch, they can't pray QUIETLY on a school
bus, any club but a religious club is granted access to school facilities,
and so on.

We don't want to "have religion forced upon us", we just want the same
rights that you have - if your kid can talk to some friend between class,
our kid should be able to talk to Jesus; if your kid can work on his chess
game after school, our kid should be able to work on his relationship with
God.

No one complains that the chess club is pressuring children to play chess
because the members talk about how much fun chess is.  It is hypocritical
to complain that God-fearing children are pressuring others to believe in
God.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                  [  TSAKC  ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151           [ DoF #17 ]        @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Xref: sparky tx.politics:7369 austin.politics:259
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,austin.politics
Subject: FAIR SHARE PLAN:  TEXAS SENATE PASSES AMENDMENT
Date: 15 Nov 92 04:00:32 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin


                =====  LINE-ITEM LEARNING  =====

*5   FAIR SHARE PLAN:  TEXAS SENATE PASSES AMENDMENT
     The Texas Senate yesterday approved a constitutional
amendment that would allow the state to equalize education
funding by taking property taxes from high-wealth school
districts (Stutz/Hoppe, DALLAS MORNING NEWS; See DRC 11/12, #9).
The measure, approved 92-2, now goes to the House, "where its
future is in doubt," according to the newspaper.
     There are more than a dozen competing proposals in the
House, according to Speaker Gib Lewis (D).  He also said no plan
has the two-thirds needed to pass a constitutional amendment.
Lewis added that he hoped the House would consider the issue
Tuesday or Wednesday.
     "Hours after Senate passage of the constitutional amendment,
the House Public Education Committee approved a similar proposal,
although the panel deleted the equity standard," writes the NEWS.
The House panel also set limits on the amount of funds that may
be redistributed from wealthier districts.
     Rep. John Culberson (R) is touting his proposed amendment
that would "all but prohibit the courts from intervening in any
school funding plan passed by the legislature," according to the
NEWS.  The measure would also bar the transfer of funds from
wealthy to poor school districts.  Culberson:  "Enough is enough.
It is time to get school finance out of the courthouse and back
in the hands of parents and taxpayers."
     Rep. Gregory Luna (D) said Culberson's measure would "push
civil rights back 20 years."  Hugo Berlanga (D) called the plan
"racist."  And Rep. Carl Parker (D) said, "I think it is racially
motivated."  Culberson said of Parker's comment:  "It's
outrageous, it's false and it's disappointing." (11/13)


-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
 There'll be too many elderly in 30 years for your kids to afford all the FICA.
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 01:23:48 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

David L. Cathey (davidc@montagar.com) wrote:
: > you are so concerned about where to put the body of a dead burglar.  If he
: > left enough money to plant himself in the ground then fine.  If his family 
: > wants to come pick his body up, then fine.
: 
: 	So if I walk up and shoot you, it's okay?  You would no longer have
: any rights (you're DEAD), so it wouldn't make any difference would it?

I was alive when you shot me.  Are you being deliberately obtuse?  What we
do with dead bodies is a completely separate issue from how they became dead.

: 	Did I shoot you in self defense?  Premeditated homicide?  Was deadly
: force required?  Both ways you are dead, but there is a definite legal
: interpretation in violation of rights.  Which you appearently don't see...

Of course I "see".  We were talking about medical examiners, who don't make
that determination.

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
    "Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age" -- TMBG   "I Palindrome I"
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: CSPAN Voter Manipulation
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:22:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.012731.2866@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>, curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.aust
> >In order to prove your point you have to show that Arkansas is in worse
> >shape than it was when he became governor.  
> 
> I think Mr. Perot said it best in the debates, "It's irrelevant."
 
Haha.  Mr. Perot thinks that running Arkansas is irrelevent, but he
thinks that the fact that he founded and ran and multi-million dollar
company means he can run a multi-trillion dollar country?  I kept hearing
about how his business acumen showed he could fix the country.
 
Showing that you ran Arkansas well does not prove you could run the
country well.  But if he had done a poor job in Arkansas it's very likely
he would do a poor job with the country.  And I think doing a good job in
a small state is worth something.  After all, businesses do the exact same
thing all the time and it seems to work ok for them.
 
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Clinton has won...watch your pocket!
Date: 18 Nov 92 05:07:08 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: Los Tejanos SCUBA Club and Beer Joint, Austin, Tejas

In article <1992Nov17.070421.10302@europa.lonestar.org> tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball) writes:
>And I leave as an exercise to the reader to decide who does and who does not
>understand how the government really works, as opposed to how the founding 
>fathers intended for it to work.

The key concept which you do not understand is the notion of checks and
balances.  The President, as head of the Executive Branch of government is
no more responsible for spending bills than the Chief Justice, as the head
of the Judicial Branch, is.  Certainly the Chief Justice could declare most
of the spending bills as unconstitutional.  That he hasn't certainly is
proof that he approves of them.  That conservatives argue many of the bills
sent through Congress violate either the 9th or 10th Amendment is further
evidence.  This, in essence, is your argument.  That the head of a
completely unrelated branch of government somehow exercises undue influence
over the goings on of some other branch.  George Bush is NOT Tom Foley.
George Bush is NOT Sen. Mitchell.  George Bush is NOT the Chairman of Ways
and Means.  George Bush is NOT part of the Legislative Branch, PERIOD.

George Bush is NOT to Roger Smith as Congress is to the GM Board of
Directors.

If you want to make this argument you might get away with it if you blame
Dan Quayle.  Quayle at least is President of the Senate.  I think you'd be
laughed at if you made that argument.  It is a far more valid argument than
the one you keep advancing ...
-- 
John F. Haugh II                  [  TSAKC  ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151           [ DoF #17 ]        @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Neighborhood Management For Schools
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:05:10 GMT
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin


                   =====  EDUCATION '92  =====

*8   URBAN SCHOOL NETWORK:  EDUCATION REFORMS RECOMMENDED
     A group of about 90 business and education leaders gathered
at Babson College in Wellesley, Mass., to discuss urban education
(AP/WASH. TIMES).  The nonprofit Community Training and
Assistance Center in Boston brought together school officials
from several urban districts upon "sensing an opening in
President-elect Clinton's promise of change," according to the
newspaper.
     Participants were chosen because of their previous success
at school reform.  "People want to hear from people who are
dealing with the problems," said William Slotnick, director of
the Community Training and Assistance Center.
     The participants in the conference are scheduled to launch a
National Urban Reform Network today in Boston.  And they plan to
present their recommendations to Mr. Clinton, congressional
leaders, and other policy makers within Clinton's first 100 days
in office.
     Examples of innovation participants discussed included:
neighborhood management for schools; school-based governing
councils; "select schools;" and placing health and social
services agency representatives directly in schools (11/16).


-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
- FICA isn't a retirement plan. Money's spent. It'll be gone when you need it.-
From: jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: What, Me Vote?
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:35:59 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: is sometimes desirable

In article <1992Nov3.195149.5005@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, fred j mccall 575-3539 writes:

> Since when?  All I've heard as a solution from folks like you is that
> we should turn the country into a huge gulag, with police and troops
> in charge.  No thanks.  Fortunately, even George Bush isn't as stupid

Fred, don't you ever get tired of making up these lies?  Who ever suggested
that?  I certainly didn't.  I don't think anyone else did either.


                                                Jim Pritchett


UUCP:  rwsys.lonestar.org!caleb!jdp
 or    utacfd.uta.edu!rwsys!caleb!jdp
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Protectionism and Japan
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:52:26 GMT
Distribution: usa,tx
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <1992Nov15.230044.28745@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> Hell, I'll even agree with you, but in a lot of cases that simply
> isn't what we're talking about.  We're talking about predatory
> practices by foreign competitors who are provided an edge BY THEIR
> GOVERNMENTS.  If their government is in the picture, ours should be,
> too. 
 
That's a narrow definition of what the Commerce Dept can penalize a
company for.  Anyway, what you are saying is that if a foreign country
(like Japan) screws their consumers at the gain of big companies, the U.S.
government should do it as well?  No thanks.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Protectionism and Japan
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:12:39 GMT
Distribution: usa,tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <1992Nov16.152717.687@cpqhou.compaq.com> thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush) writes:

>>In article <1992Nov12.142955.625@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>> 
>>> This one was more politically motivated than anything else, wasn't it?
>>> I mean, given that the bulk of the sugar on the world market was
>>> coming from Cuba, etc., and we wanted to try and do something with
>>> Hawaii?  I can try to look it up in my baby library here, if someone
>>> doesn't know.

>If the motivation was to discourage use of Cuban sugar and boost sales of
>domestic, why wouldn't we simply require labelling: "This sugar contains
>70% imported sugar and 43% imported Cuban sugar."  

Because we have a Representative Democracy and not a Democracy?

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000)
Subject: Re: What, Me Vote?
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 17:44:57 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
: Yeah, and then they look at the incidence of AIDS and figure it won't
: happen to them.  So they do it anyway, unprotected and she gets
: pregnant or they get AIDS or something else bad happens.  You can't
: stop it that way because the typical teen simply figures that that
: sort of thing only happens to OTHER people.

I agree, and I think that this is true whether you hand out free condoms or not.
Therefore I would argue that it's probably not cost-effective to give out
condoms at public expense.  Although I have no problem with condom companies
donating them (which is the situation in the NY schools).

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
    "Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age" -- TMBG   "I Palindrome I"
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: TX school Funding Fiasco
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 22:20:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.132435.16510@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>, curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.aus
> (Brooks, 11/17).  Auditors questioned about 4% of the money spent
> by school districts, the newspaper reports.  "That looks like we
> scored 98%.  That's an A in anyone's book," commented Craig
> Foster, exec. director of the Equity Center, a coalition of
> property-poor school districts that opposes the Fair Share Plan.
 
If that's not a typo, it just points out the problem.  This foster guy
thinks 100% - 4% = 98%.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: wrr3118@tamuts.tamu.edu (William Richard Jr Russell)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: CSPAN Voter Manipulation
Date: 22 Nov 1992 06:47:32 GMT
Organization: ~/lib/organization
Distribution: tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamuts.tamu.edu

In article <21910@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>In article <Bxz05K.46n@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>>What promise did Clinton already break.  

>His promise to both lower taxes on the middle class and raise taxes on
>the middle class.  You can't do both ...

>It also appears that he will break his promise to stimulate the economy
>with an early spending program.

What in heck are you talking about? BILL CLINTON IS NOT PRESIDENT YET.
HE HAS NO ABILITY TO CONTROL SPENDING *OR* RAISE TAXES.

Look, I realize campaign promises are frequently broken, but at LEAST
give the guy a chance to get inaugurated before you accuse him of
betrayal.
  Rick Russell  wrr3118@tamuts.tamu.edu | TAMU Meteorology
                WRR3118@TAMVM1 (Bitnet) | Newbie Clueless Grad Student
  "I may be old, but I can still instruct others to hurt you."
                                     - Carla Tortelli's mother
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Protectionism and Japan
Date: 21 Nov 92 22:06:28 GMT
Distribution: usa,tx
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <1992Nov19.150250.19719@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> >Because the sugar lobby could care less where the foreign competition
> >comes from, it simply wants to get rid of it.
> 
> The 'sugar lobby'?  Yeah, now THAT sure sounds like a huge enterprise.
> If the 'sugar lobby' (which must be a very small thing, since sugar is
> hardly a huge part of our economy -- in fact, we've quit producing
> nearly the quantity of beet sugar that we used to, so it can't be THAT
> bloody profitable) can get all this protection, what happened to the
> 'wheat' lobby and the 'corn' lobby?  They must be much larger -- why
> haven't they gotten the same sort of political favours?
> 
> Nothing like a conspiracy theory, Doug . . . 
 
Are you that ignorant of special interest politics Fred?  It has nothing
to do with a conspiracy.  
 
Before you start insulting me perhaps you should learn a little about the
subject.  Do you actually know ANYTHING about the market for sugar or the
tariffs and quotas on that product?  Have you bothered to read anything on
the subject?
 
Are you aware that the sugar lobby has donated over $3 million to
Congressmen in a five year span?  While that doesn't put them up with the 
real estate lobby, it's more than enough.  Add in the fact that there are
several US Senators with sugar growers in their states (Jesse Helms has
pulled a lot of strings to keep out foreign sugar) and it's clear they
have quite a lot of influence.
 
Did you happen to know that in 1988 GATT ruled that the US's sugar program
was violating GATT rules?  And the Congress' solution was to put further
production controls on US farmers and drive the price of sugar and related
products even higher.
 
P.S.:  As a matter of fact the US government does provide export subsidies
       for wheat.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:31:33 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <1992Nov19.005933.27022@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:

>: 	Again, if you really had any concern, you would want them to be
>: better prepared for a variety of outcomes.

>I want them not to have their choices interfered with.

John, do you understand the difference between children and adults?
It would seem not, from what you write.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: CSPAN Voter Manipulation
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:53:39 GMT

In article <21896@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
> I think you are missing the point.  NOTHING got better.  When you rank
> 49th, it's pretty hard to get much worse.
 
John, that's a silly statement (and I think you know it is).  If
State X is ranked 50th in adult literacy (let's say 80% literacy) and it
falls over the next 20 years to 60% you would conclude that it was more or
less the same because they are still 50th?!  Rankings are simply
inappropriate ways to measure the effectiveness of a program or governor.
 
> OK.  You insist on some "thing".  In 1980, Arkansas had an average income
> level that was 78% of the national average.  It was the same in 1989 or
> so.
 
There you go.  That's what I was looking for.
 
> Bill Clinton has promised everyone everything he could.  At least George
> Bush waited two years to break his word.  Bill Clinton took about one
> week.
 
What promise did Clinton already break.  
 
And just FYI, I didn't vote for Clinton.  Defending him against spurious
claims doesn't mean I voted for him or even like him.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com