HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,alt.individualism
Subject: Re: = Opportunity etc.
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:58:38 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <7JAN199315002844@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov>, secsu@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ralph O. Clark) writes:
|> From: secsu@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ralph O. Clark)
|> Subject: Re: = Opportunity etc.
|> Date: 7 Jan 93 20:00:00 GMT

[Manish's argument deleted]

|> According to the back of my tax form booklet, the breakdown is as follows:
|> 	30% medicare and similar programs
|> 	14% social programs
|> 	__________________
|> 	44% total
|> 
|> 	24% defense
|> 
|> This is from memory. The 14% and 24% I am sure of, the 30% may be larger.
|> It seems to me that there was another category that would fall in with
|> medicare and social programs, but I don't have the form with me here.
|> 
|> Maybe you are thinking of the fraction of money spent by the bureaucracies
|> in charge of the social programs that actually gets where it is supposed to.

The gov't is inefficient in delivering money, and you don't want 
the bureaucrats to waste all of *your* money. 

What extent of gov't do you approve of? 
What gov't spending is ok?

Until you answer these questions, its pretty hard to discern where 
your argument is coming from.

What is your opinion of the 'democracy' that we have in America?
How do we change it to be more responsive to individual wants.

|> Abuses of anything abusable always show up everywhere. Under the current
|> "social-justice-influenced system", 30-50% of income is spirited away, with
|> only a small percentage actually getting to the people who need it.
|> If the government could steal our money and actually use it for good purposes,
|> people would shout a lot less about it. In fact, the government only uses
|> it to strengthen its hold on the people, tossing a few well-gnawed bones
|> to the poor to buy their support.

I agree with much of this paragraph, but could we not just substitute the
"military industrial complex" for "social-justice-influenced system."

|> Without managed trade, GM and the rest would not have taken 20 years to
|> catch on to the fact that Americans like good-quality cars.

Perhaps, or maybe they (Chrysler) would be out of business.

|> The American Revolution was started and led by English citizens, mostly
|> mid-to-upper class, who were tired of their rights as Englishmen being
|> trampled on by the English government.

Sounds pretty similar to the Sandinistas.

|> Exactly what part of making money to you object to? When does it become
|> immoral? And when does theft become moral? What we need is a government
|> that deals with all equally, not looking the other way when the rich
|> DEFRAUD the poor, but also not looking the other way when the poor steal
|> from the rich. Justice is justice.

Yeah, and I'm damn glad to see Keating getting convicted. How much did
he lose? $2.6 billion? Let's see what % of the HUD budget that is?
Anybody happen to know?

Ron
From: sanzgiri@bombay.metaphor.com (Ajit Sanzgiri)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Queries on Career Choices
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:42:45 GMT
Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems, Mountain View, CA

In article <1id3o0INN33v@menudo.uh.edu> mba2@Jane.UH.EDU writes:
>>4. What draws so many IAs to "practical" professions in general?
>>(By practical I mean Eng/Comp.Sci, Law, Medicine, Accounting, etc.)
>>
>Upbringing.  They realize that there is more stability in a "Professional"
>occupation then in a "Non-Professional" one.  Also MONEY.  English majors/
>Sociology majors /etc don't make as much unless they get M.S. or PhD's.

	Probably more so if they look "foreign". As an II parent of an IA
	kid, I feel my son would be better off training as a professional
	(whose value in society is less likely to be questioned) than say
	an actor, writer or fashion designer where he may find it difficult
	to be accepted. Though these are all honourable professions and I
	don't plan on forcing him into this or that career, I would certainly
	advise him to go into a professional occupation (if he seeks my
	advice, that is) and do what I can to encourage him in that direction.

	Ajit Sanzgiri
From: baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Rhodes & Marshall scholarships
Date: 7 Jan 1993 11:38:49 -0500
Organization: Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu

In article <1igst0INN2dq@agate.berkeley.edu> mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:
>An interesting note: Rhodes and Marshall scholarships seem to strongly
>favor students of humanities and social sciences rather than math/science/
>engineering.  S.Asian students garnered 2 Rhodes and 3 Marshall scholarships
>last year; only one Marshall recipient was an electrical engineer at MIT,
>while the rest studied fields like politics, philosophy, health care,
>medieval history, etc.

Well, let's be careful here, you mean *South Asians in the US* - got 
2 of the 16 Rhodes Scholarships awarded to US students - each country 
has a 'quota' - The quota for India is 2. So at least 2 South Asians 
will get it every year, but they will have gone to school in South Asia. 
There are (I think) 50 Marshall scholarships, awarded only to Americans 
and Europeans.

Garnering an eighth of the Rhodes scholarships is really great - one has 
to see whether that translates into South Asians moving into positions 
of political leadership as well, since many US Rhodes Scholars have gone 
on to become politicians - Bill Clinton was one, so were Bill Bradley, 
Robert Reich, Richard Lugar, and many, many others.
Atul Gawande, who is on Clinton's health care policy staff, was also 
a Rhodes Scholar. Both his parents were physicians, and he is training 
to be one. It remains to be seen what influence this kind of background 
has on the policies he helps Clinton formulate. 

>
>If the prestige of these scholarships is transferred to the students who
>receive them and the fields they study, maybe non-technical fields will
>gain respectability in the South Asian community.
>

--Satyen
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: vagarwal@dis9002.shearson.com (Virendra Agarwal)
Subject: Re: being asian-indian/american
Reply-To: vagarwal@tardis.shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:04:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.231825.12618@athena.mit.edu> tyadav@athena.mit.edu (T.Y.) writes:

   Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Path: shearson.com!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!tyadav
   From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (T.Y.)
   Sender: news@athena.mit.edu (News system)
   Nntp-Posting-Host: m66-080-18.mit.edu
   Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
   Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:18:25 GMT
   Lines: 28

   ========================================================
   > esti@quads.uchicago.edu (Paul A. Estin) writes:
   >:   I agree that such a race-based division makes little if any sense,
   >:   whatever the actual labels used.  However, I think you're reading in
   >:   false motives behind such form-questions.  Pretty much the only reason
   >:   the 'race' question is included, is because it's often required by the
   >:   federal government.  And the reason the federal government requires
   >:   it, by and large, is to gather statistics to see if any particular
   >:   race is being unfairly underrepresented (and thus, it is assumed,
   >:   discriminated against).

    I agree with Paul.

   -----[delete stuff]--------------

    vagarwal@tardis.shearson.com responds:
   >
   >I do not consider White or Black as a RACE.
   >RACE would be German,French,African..etc.

>    Virendra, while you emphasize that "europeans" be
>    classified by their nationality, you in the same line
>    lump all "africans" together? Africa is as much a continent
>    like europe - isn't it? So why this double standard, huh?

>   T.Y.
   ----
>   tyadav@athena.mit.edu
----------------------------

I did not mean to lump all Africans. I wanted to be brief. Yes, they should be
addressed as Somalian,Ugandan.....etc. It is not whether you or I have double standards 
but what is rightly Correct that matters.

Most Chinese and Japanese and some Indians are White also but "THE WHITE" referred to in
the application form to gather "SO CALLED FEDERAL STATISTICS" has to be read as
"EUROPEAN with Blonde hair and Blue Eyes". 


--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Virendra Agarwal
vagarwal@shearson.com
212-464-2151
Lehman Brothers
388 Greenwich st.(9th Flr.)
NewYork, NY 10013
---------------------------------------------------------------
From: mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Indian software in the spotlight (Was Re: Pressure)
Date: 7 Jan 1993 09:12:35 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

In article <shashi.726326598@aix3090b.uky.edu> shashi@aix3090b.uky.edu (Shashi Sathaye) writes:

>The way the school system is herein USA, one can finish high school by taking 
>very low level 'math and science' courses, and equally mediocre language 
>and arts classes. If left upto the children, 
>they would prefer 'bunny' classes that
>get them thru the high school easy and they will also talk their friends into 
>it.

As much as I love diversity of education, there is something to the view that
American technical education is not specialized enough.  Recently, the
growing Indian software industry has been getting a lot of publicity: from
FORTUNE magazine, from National Public Radio, from local and national 
newspapers, from trade journals, etc.  The head of Texas Instruments-
Bangalore said on NPR last night that the IIT grads he employs are awesome
in their analytic capabilities, far superior to U.S. engineers, and although
were initially employed for cheaper labor, are now supplying great design
ideas.

According to my dad, this is because the Indian Institutes of Technology
are so single-minded in their approach to teaching engineering: one basic
humanities class followed by straight engineering from all angles, and
homework that combined eats up 18 of the 24 hours in the day.  Perhaps you
net.IIT grads could comment.

I hate to stop taking English classes, but a lot of pundits are predicting
that I and my fellow CS people will be out of jobs in the next few years
unless we work our asses off.

Manish
-- 
She paints herself that bird, a thrush
with crimson stain across her mouth
No raspberry, a hot-sweet flush
denies the fever frocking south.         - S.K.S.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,alt.culture.karnataka
From: ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: = Opportunity etc.
Organization: University of Tennessee 
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 17:33:15 GMT

In article <7889@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira) writes:
>What extent of gov't do you approve of? 

The absolute bare minimum necessary to provide for individuals those things 
that they cannot, by definition, provide for themselves.  Exactly what these 
things are is more slippery, at least for me.  One candidate is national 
defense.

>What gov't spending is ok?

Any spending that doesn't coerce resources from individuals who don't want 
to contribute them.

>What is your opinion of the 'democracy' that we have in America?
>How do we change it to be more responsive to individual wants.

It's a good start, but it needs more protection for individuals.

We can make participation in such programs as social security, medicare, or 
forgien aid optional.

We can eliminate the general fund and have congress pass a separate 
appropriations bill for each general item.  Then Sen. Proxmyer, who hates 
space exploration, would have to stand up in front of congress and the rest 
of the nation and say, "Please appropriate money from other districts and 
send it to mine in the form of dairy subsidies."  Then, when you got your 
tax bill, there would be a line-item, "Dairy subsidies for Sen Proxmyer's 
home state."

>
>|> Abuses of anything abusable always show up everywhere. Under the current
>|> "social-justice-influenced system", 30-50% of income is spirited away, with
>|> only a small percentage actually getting to the people who need it.
>|> If the government could steal our money and actually use it for good purposes,
>|> people would shout a lot less about it. In fact, the government only uses
>|> it to strengthen its hold on the people, tossing a few well-gnawed bones
>|> to the poor to buy their support.
>
>I agree with much of this paragraph, but could we not just substitute the
>"military industrial complex" for "social-justice-influenced system."

Sure.

>
>|> Without managed trade, GM and the rest would not have taken 20 years to
>|> catch on to the fact that Americans like good-quality cars.
>
>Perhaps, or maybe they (Chrysler) would be out of business.

Perhaps.  That's the risk you take when you go into business:  someone may 
be better at it than you.

>
>|> The American Revolution was started and led by English citizens, mostly
>|> mid-to-upper class, who were tired of their rights as Englishmen being
>|> trampled on by the English government.
>
>Sounds pretty similar to the Sandinistas.

How?  The Sandinistas were a terrorist organization advocating a one-party 
system with the emphasis (if yo ubelieve them) on "the good of the people" 
instead of the good of the individual.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,alt.individualism
From: shashi@aix3090b.uky.edu (Shashi Sathaye)
Subject: Re: = Opportunity etc.
    <1idhvuINNesq@agate.berkeley.edu> <ARCHER.627.726336611@utkvm1.utk.edu> 
    <7889@dove.nist.gov> <8JAN199321505673@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> 
    <7933@dove.nist.gov> <ARCHER.720.726846974@utkvm1.utk.edu>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Path: shashi
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:13:42 GMT

ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:

>hira>
>clark>|> Not for things that fall under "really nice things for someone to do
>clark>|> for somebody", i.e. charity. This includes
>clark>|> 	welfare
>clark>|> 	medicine
>clark>|> 	disaster "relief"
>hira>
>hira>What about education? Medicine is charity, eh? What do you tell people
>hira>who carry contagious diseases?

>These are all services  that have to be paid for.  The people who use 
>services should be the ones to pay for them.  

>People with contagious diseases should remove themselves from public, as 
>they present a hazard of infection.  If they refuse to do so, they are 
>assaulting the people around them and should be removed.
Vow, do you mean if I get cold, I should just 'remove' myself? What does remove mean? What do I live on when I have removed myself? Should I just wither
and die?
What if I was diagnosed wrong?
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking.
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The above sounds to me like a 'devotion'.
--
--With best regards from Shashi
Login name: shashi | System Programmer By Profession | In real life:
                   | but heart(&SWEET-HEART) in Math.| Shashi Sathaye
shashi@ms.uky.edu	sysshash@ukcc.uky.edu  shashi@aix3090.uky.edu
From: rangok@wpi.WPI.EDU (Rangaswamy Keshavan)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: being asian-indian/american
Date: 5 Jan 1993 02:28:23 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

THis is about the talk going around (which I guess I started) about Europeans
(white America) not accepting us (and others) so freely into their society.
I think it is true, but not always.  I have found many white friends who are
true friends, and in fact one became a Brother in law!  But there are also
people who are nice on the outside and bigotted on the inside.  They are
basically ignorant.  Ususally you can make them out by their little remarks,
but they are made usually because of ignorance on their part.  I personally
find it ridiculous when someone comes up to me and says, so how do you find
the winter, much colder than what you are used to, eh?  I just look at them
square in the eye and say, I've been here since 1964 so am quite used to this,
and in fact it is not so cold here as it was in Maine, where I lived in my
childhood!  THat usually embarresses them and shuts them up!  I mean, my accent
is NOT that of an Indian!  

But I do agree that Indians themselves have many prejudices, Blacks for one,
and even amongst each other.  As far as Europeans being treated well in India,
I found that they usually treat them with more courtesy than they treat their
fellow Indians!  But also they try to take them for rides easier, so one has
to be careful!

I think it is important to consider oneself an Indian and and American if one
is going to live in this country, as you need to keep your cultural heritage
about you, and also need to belong to this culture, which is multifaceted.
(Actually, both are).  But, I also agree that one should feel a citizen of the
world first, and strive to make others feel that way whenever possible, for
that is really what we are, and that is the only way that humanity is going to
survive this era and move on into the next, whatever that may be.  I believe
it to be an era of space travel and contact with other intelligences out there,
but then again, I am a dreamer.

Imagine theirs no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people,
Living for today,
You may say I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one,
I hope someday you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.  
	John Lennon

Bye

Rango






Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu (digest editor)
Subject: Re: alt.hindu
Organization: Univ of Cincinnati
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:37:55 GMT

In article <1ias8jINNdoh@bigboote.WPI.EDU> rangok@wpi.WPI.EDU (Rangaswamy Keshavan) writes:
>
>
>Someone stated that there was an alt.hindu newsgroup but we don't have it.
>Can others verify that it exists, and how do I get it?
>
>Rango

Yes indeed! there is a moderated newsgroup alt.hindu.  We reproduce here 
the charter for this newsgroup.  If you are not getting this newsgroup
please contact your system administrator.

              Charter for alt.Hindu

We propose the formation of a moderated alt group, alt.Hindu
 
Hindu dharma (religious philosophy and way of life) is followed by over 650 
million people in the world.  Prominent among its teaching are the 
acceptance of various religious paths, and the sprit of universal family.

Although there is soc.religion.eastern, alt.Hindu will be different.  It will
be the forum to discuss various Hindu docterines as they are applicable to
day to day living.  Unlike soc.religion.eastern, it will also be used as
a forum to discuss various issues that affect Hindus living around the world.
These issues include, environmental awareness from the Hindu perspective, 
war and peace, human rights and participlation of Hindus in political process
to promote the universal ideals mentioned above.  It will also be used as a
forum for cultural news about Hindus from around the world.

This forum will also be different from soc.culture.indian (sci) because,
sci is more concerned with the issues affecting India, whereas alt.Hindu
will be of interest to the people from around the world who are eager to
learn about the Hindu dharma (religious philosophy + way of life) and culture.

Currently, the only other forum for promoting such a forum is a list
called the Hindu Digest (HINDU-D), however, there is overwhelming 
interest in having an alt group.

******************************************
Editor, alt.hindu (editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu
*****************************************

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: esti@quads.uchicago.edu (Paul A. Estin)
Subject: Re: Indian software in the spotlight (Was Re: Pressure)
Reply-To: esti@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: U. Michigan Cognitive Psychology
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:29:00 GMT

>In article <1993Jan11.231638.26436@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>>One reason for this is that "need of achievement" is reduced for the 
>>individuals who graduated from ivy league colleges. They have already
>[...]
>>Subsequently they do not do as well as somebody from a remote unheard college
>>still trying to prove his/her technical competence.

In article <1iu9l3$5t0@agate.berkeley.edu> mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu
(Manish Vij) writes:
>I have also heard this comment, that Berkeley/MIT/Stanford et al. grads
>are too arrogant to work hard in the workplace, so some managers prefer hiring
>from Cal Poly.  I certainly hope this isn't too large a trend :-).

Well, you could swing the pendulum back the other way.  At an
interview, you could talk about how you feel a need to 'prove
yourself' as being a good worker to debunk stereotypes of
elite-school-grads.

Of course, if the response is a confused/suspicious expression and the
words, "Why?  You lazy in school?" it could backfire. :-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    _/_/_/  _/    _/    _/    _/_/    _/  _/ Paul Andrew Estin  313-994-3869
   _/      _/_/  _/  _/  _/  _/  _/  _/_/   U. Michigan Cognitive Psychology
  _/_/_/  _/  _/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/    _/     estin@csmil.umich.edu
     _/  _/    _/  _/  _/  _/  _/  _/_/   esti@midway.uchicago.edu
_/_/_/  _/    _/  _/  _/  _/  _/  _/  _/ HoloMuck 128.135.120.46 5757

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: vagarwal@dis9002.shearson.com (Virendra Agarwal)
Subject: Re: being asian-indian/american
Reply-To: vagarwal@tardis.shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers
	<VAGARWAL.93Jan4110437@dis9002.shearson.com>
	<1993Jan5.141344.22474@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:07:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.141344.22474@cbfsb.cb.att.com> rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel) writes:

   Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian