From: CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CX6L)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: RE: Random Rolls
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:35:09 GMT
Organization: McGill University

Again: sorry for bandwidth lost to flames. As far as I (and my
reader) know, this, like my rebuttal to Sea Wasp's claim, is
on r.g.f.advocacy now. Again, I feel the urge to fire back . . .

In article <1jn0j8INNgns@titan.ucs.umass.edu> dunkelza@titan.ucs.umass.edu (KEITH C MCCORMIC) writes:
>In article <20JAN93.23287310.0073@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CX6L <CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA> writes:

>>So: what *do* you like, Sea Wasp? Murderous powergaming systems?
>>Clunky ROLL-playing system (complete with 20 dice)? Restrictive
>>random-rolled, class-driven systems? I'm curious!
>>-Kromm

>  Oooh...  Now you've got my hackle up!  Random roll restrictive??!!??!!

Yup: those are my words.
So, you like this:       "You roll x & y & z! Here's your character!"
                         "I can't play this: it's a random mass of
                          unrelated abilities!"
                         "Guess you're an infantile wimp, then, buddy!"
Geez. What fun it must be to game with you!

>  Only for those infantile wimp gamers who can't cope with a character
>that doesn't fit their stereotypical concepts of what "THEIR" character
>is like.

I play games for *fun*, not for acting class practice or a challenge.
If I want to learn to act out roles I hate, I'll go to theatre school.
If I want a challenge, I'm a particle physicist: there's lots of nasty
problems out there to be solved. Yes: I want my character to be "my"
character. This is fun. I get to construct a concept and follow it
through its evolution, controlling the process according to my desires
and whims. Hand me a heroic "righter of wrongs", randomly summoned
from chaotic fluctuations in "character space", and I'll spit it back
at you. I (Kromm) am not a "pure good" moralist, and do not believe
they exist, or like those people I meet who try to be like that. Why
would I willingly portray a character I object to morally and
philosophically? There's millions of characters like that -- and a
select few I enjoy. I'm out to have fun, QED, I play those I enjoy.

>Again and again I hear the same thing...  "I don't like it
>when my character isn't exactly what I wanted.".  Maybe you should learn
>to play unconventional characters.

My characters are neither conventional, nor predictable, nor optimized,
nor anything else people seem to think point-allocated characters are.
Where these misconceptions come from, I sure as hell do not know. All I
know is, try roleplaying with me before you slam my ability to roleplay
in public. I could argue that anyone as close-minded as you needs to
learn something too . . . but that would be rude.

> Or amybe you should realize that
>everyone is not the same.  What is this Advangtage/Disadvantage crap?
>Since when has it been true that if you add up everyone's advantages and
>disadvantages, they come out equal?  Since never!

True, in real-life. However, in a game with challenges that all of
the player characters must face, some of which may be deadly, it is
no fun if some characters have their survival and usefulness almost
guaranteed, while others suffer through being useless and peripheral.
Giving everyone the same potential for ability, usefulness and
survival is a fair way of ensuring that no PC ends up dead, ignored
or overshadowed. This is more fun for the players. Although finding
"n" people who are, overall, "equal" in real-life is unlikely, as
long as the system handles real-life situations well, this can be
ignored in the name of fun.
     I remember a Stormbringer game where I was a Pan-Tangian noble,
warrior, wizard-priest, with amazing equipment, frightening magic,
deadly combat ability and a good chance of getting direct help from
the gods: all due to random rolls my GM supervised like a hawk. My
friend, using the same system, got a lame, leprous, one-eyed sailor
with two skills at terrible levels, lousy attributes, and *no*
equipment whatsoever. Let me tell you, it was just soooo much fun for
him! Not to mention, the GM couldn't come up with a balanced adventure!
If you enjoy this, fine. I puke upon it.

>It's a lame argument
>and a lame excuse for designing a point allocation system.  Get some
>real role-playing ability.

Thanks, I have lots. Lots of folks agree with me. I've been doing this
for years and years, and am always in demand as both a player and a GM.
Try this line on the guy you see in the mirror in the morning. Like I
said, don't criticize me this way until you've gamed with me, pal.

>Note:  This post was only intended to insult Kromm.  If anyone else is
>       insulted, apology quickly rendered.

Curious I should be singled out, considering the number of targets
you would have had during the points vs. random rolls debate that
raged here for years. What did I say? Just curious . . . I don't
really care.

-Kromm.

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