From: toolan@scivax.stsci.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Greyhound Obedience Training
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:11:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute

In article <1992Sep23.193710.7245@terminator.cc.umich.edu>, 
vln@icpsr.umich.edu (Victoria Neff) writes:
> In article <arichard.3@sph.unc.edu> arichard@sph.unc.edu (ALISON RICHARD) 
writes:

>>Can anyone help?  I am assisting in a Dog Obedience class and we have an
>>ex-racing greyhound as one of our pupils. Since racing greyhounds are 
>>punished for sitting apparently, none of us are sure how to approach 
>>teaching 'sit'.  We have suggested going very slowly and gently, but no-one 
>>knew for sure.  'Down' is also going to be a problem since it's usually 
>>taught from a 'sit'.
>>
>>Can anyone out there give advice - 

	From my own limited greyhound training experience (2 dogs), I feel
	that the older the dog, the harder it is to get them to sit.  The
	older dog, Amber, was adopted at age 4 1/2.  Amber _absolutely NEVER
	sat_ on her own.  I tried _everything_ I could think of (short of
	force) for an entire year.

> I have no experience with greyhounds, but I know that dogs can be taught
> to do things on command by using the word you want them to recognize as
> a command when they are doing whatever it is you want them to do.  After all,
> you can't make the dog eliminate, but you can teach it that when you
> say "hurry up!" you want it to do so.  When the owner sees the dog sitting,
> then "good sit!" and a treat if you can get the treat to the sitting dog.
> 
	Since she _never_ sat, I couldn't do this...

> That's one thought.  Another....
> 
> It's fairly common practice in my area to teach puppies commands by baiting
> them.  To get a sit from a stand, hold the treat/toy/whatever right in front
> of the dog's nose, and move the treat backwards and level.  Put the dog
> in a corner if it just backs up.

	Trying this (even in a corner), only gave me a dog that was contorting
	herself trying to reach the treat without sitting. :-(
 
> Don't forget to use succesive approximation -- if the dog is afraid to sit,
> start reinforcing any lowering of the hindquarters at all, and then, when
> that seems solid, insist that they go a bit lower, etc.

	I finally got to this point, but I still had to use gentle pressure.
	After firmly saying, "Amber, sit!" I applied pressure with finger
	and thumb tips on her rump (on either side of her tail).  As I built
	up the pressure, she built up her resistance.  After considerable time,
	(bear in mind it took me a year to get this far, since I didn't want
	to force her) she slipped up.  She shifted her weight, I pressed at the
	same time, and plop, down went the rump.  I gently held her rump down
	(no flames please--I am well aware of these dogs' sensitivity--that's
	why it took forever to get to this point!) for about 15 seconds,
	praising her to high heaven.  She was shaking like a leaf, waiting for
	the prongs to come up from below, I guess.  It took several more months
	before she would sit without being prompted by pressure on her rump.
	To this day Amber makes it clear she doesn't like to sit; she'd far
	rather be in that patented Greyhound "crouch."

	Topaz, on the other hand, was adopted at age 2 1/2.  She'd periodically
	sit on her own if she didn't think we were looking, though she didn't
	want to do it if she knew we were paying attention.  It didn't take
	long to convince her that we _wanted_ her to sit and that she wouldn't
	be hurt if she did.  At this point, she doesn't mind sitting at all.
  
> Good luck!

	And above all, be patient!!!

		*	*	*	*	*
				*
	Sharon Toolan		*	My opinions are my own;
	toolan@stsci.edu	*	No one else would want them!
				*
		*	*	*	*	*

	      Make a fast friend--adopt a Greyhound!

Mom to Amber--8 yr old rescued racer
       Topaz--3 1/2 yr old rescued racer
       Christopher--11 yr old self-appointed "assistant" Greyhound trainer