HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Advice needed for Game Show Idea
Date: 9 Apr 92 04:18:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: pegasus.1992Apr9.041820.8860
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu

In article <1992Apr2.213059.7405@infonode.ingr.com> jackr@thorodin.dazixco.ingr.com writes:
>Howdy all,
>
>I have an idea for a game show that I have not had much success finding a
>producer for. The idea is registered with the Writer's Guild and was rebuffed
>by an agent in Hollywierd some time ago. 

<and other stuff>
>
>Any thoughts, opinions, leads or hard headed advice you would be interested 
>in sharing with me would be well received.

Jack... I'll pass along some advice that I was given many years ago.

Ideas are a dime a dozen.  Even ideas accompanied by cute drawings or full-
color glossy pictures.  What sells in Hollywood and I will suppose anywhere
is money.  If you can drum up the advertisers you can produce any show that
you want.

Nobody produces "game shows" because they are entertaining but because they
generate revenue in the form of advertising which is priced according to the
ability to draw viewers in.

Proctor & Gamble for instance could waltz in and "produce a game show" if they
were willing to pick up all the costs.  You could also if you had an agreement
with P & G to pay for it.  So if you want your game show to be produced you
have a much better chance if you drum up the monetary support.  Still using
P & G for the example... what is the motivation for them to advertise on your
game show ?  There are already shows on the air that they can advertise on
is yours "better" ?  Will more people watch yours than whatever else is on ?

You'll be asked to back that up with some facts...

tom
From: Brennan.J.Murphy.53@nd.edu
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: where do i start???
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:39:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Notre Dame

I am in a fiction writing class this semester.  I wrote some stories that 
the class thought were very funny.  I want ot see if I can get one published.
It's a satirical look at pro basketball.  My question is this, what do I do
first?  Where do I send it?  Does anybody out there want to read it?  Now for
a stab in the dark question,  does anybody know how to go about becoming a 
writer for sat. nite live???   In keeping with the coherence of this article
and its questions, I would just like to ask one more question, Huh?
Thanks for being a friend.
From: Laurie Mann
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Uncreative Writing.
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:14:29 GMT
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

Chris Zelek writes
>The vast majority of our creative writing department appears to be of the sort
>that is being talked about on here, namely those who have their own ideas
>about what should be written by their students.  One such instructor, who
>teachers one of the two 400-level creative writing courses offered at
>Rutgers University, INSISTS, nay, *DEMANDS* that her pupils write 'what
>they know.'  Yes, I realize this is a debate that has raged on for ages in
>literature and writing circles, yet it's very restrictive, IMO.

I think it's reasonable for a fiction teacher to say "Write something
autobiographical" for one story assignment.  I think it's very
unreasonble to only permit that type of writing.  

In general, though, college fiction teachers DO prefer "true life"
stories, and don't relate well at all to SF/fantasy.

* NeXT: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  GEnie,AOL: Laurie.Mann *
***    I guess we all have to fall apart a little, once in    ***
***   a while, in order to rebuild our dreams.  Tappan King   ***
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: jim@thinkage.on.ca (James Alan Gardner)
Subject: Re: More style stuff
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 17:57:08 GMT

In article <3APR199219465906@coral.bucknell.edu> norbeck@coral.bucknell.edu (Naughty Nancy) writes:
>Since everyone's been discussing style lately I thought perhaps
>now would be a good time to ask this question.  When is it and 
>when is it not allowable for a character in the first person to
>address his/her audience?  

It's always allowable.  The real question is when is it successful.
And the straightforward answer to that question is when the speech
fits into the narrator's tone of voice and into the work as a whole.

Some narrators are chatty.  I mentioned "Tristram Shandy" in a
previous posting.  The narrator constantly addresses the audience,
plays games, brags, berates, holds conversations with the reader,
and so on.  It works because Shandy is simply that kind of man: 
infuriating at times, but a man who would never ignore his audience.
I recall the same sort of thing throughout "Tom Jones".  So if nothing
else, you can cite some illustrious precedents.  Now that I think of
it, Dickens played to the audience too (both in first person and in
third person) and Bulwer-Lytton did the same thing in the few
passages I've had the honour to read.  Arm's-length narration
is more a 20th century ideal than a permanent principle of writing.

Of course, your readers are 20th century people (for another eight
years anyway), so they may be less prepared for direct address from
the narrator.  All this says to me is that you have to prepare them.
If your narrator is going to address the reader, do it sometime
in the first few paragraphs; your readers will simply say, "Oh, this
is that kind of book," and will continue reading (you hope).  You'll
only get into trouble if you're three quarters of the way through
the story and your narrator suddenly does something uncharacteristic.

Even then, it could be fun.  I'm reminded of "The Three Coffins
Mystery" by John Dickson Carr, where the detective, Gideon Fell,
sits down at the beginning of Chapter 11 and falls completely out
of character by lecturing the reader on the subject of locked
room mysteries.  It works in that case because no one is ever
going to mistake "The Three Coffins Mystery" for serious literature
anyway, and there's charm in the chutzpah of an author who says,
"Here are the tricks I'm using to fool you," while he's wrapping
you around his little finger.

		Jim Gardner, Thinkage Ltd.
From: ARL00SJB@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: _WRITER'S DIGEST_ address for contest
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:22:26 GMT
Organization: UNC Charlotte

Someone asked me to post the address for the _Writer's Digest_ contest that
requires you to first write a 7-word sentence, then begin each subsequent
sentence in the story with the consecutive words of the first sentence:
2nd sentence of story begins with 2nd word of first sentence; 3rd sentence
of story begins with 3rd word of first sentence, etc.  You end up with a
7-sentence story - you then type it onto a standard postcard and send it to:
         Your Assignment # 28
         _Writer's Digest_
         1507 Dana Avenue
         Cincinnati, OH  45207
Judging criteria are inventiveness, creativity and humor. 1 entry per person.
Deadline is May 15; notification of winners will be publication in the
September issue of WD.  First place prize is a selection of Writer's
Digest Books worth approx. $100.00, chosen by the editors of _WD_.  3
honorable mentions will receive a copy of _Writer's Yearbook '92_.
 
I am not an employee of _WD_, or affiliated with them in any way.  This
information is from the May 1992 issue of _WD_.
 
-Jean
From: zelek@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Zelek)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Uncreative Writing.
Date: 17 Apr 92 06:19:09 GMT
Organization: Rutgers University


   Ah, finally a thread this non-published being can contribute to!  The
vast majority of our creative writing department appears to be of the sort
that is being talked about on here, namely those who have their own ideas
about what should be written by their students.  One such instructor, who
teachers one of the two 400-level creative writing courses offered at
Rutgers University, INSISTS, nay, *DEMANDS* that her pupils write 'what
they know.'  Yes, I realize this is a debate that has raged on for ages in
literature and writing circles, yet it's very restrictive, IMO.
  In other words, this woman would expect me to write only fiction which
had a main character [or at least saw things from the perspective of] a
young white male of up to 21 years of age, and it must be set in our
modern day society.  I find this a VAST waste of potential and an
enormous snuffer on my creativity.  I write and read primarily medieval
fantasy, and should I get this instructor in the future, I will be
unable to gain further practice in what I desire to do as a writer.
 I've found this sort of oppressive teaching also has the negative effect
of retarding your creativity [in addition to simply wasting your time]
since you will most likely find yourself griping about what you are forced
to write, and also not having much of an interest in what you are writing.
It would be little more than putting together your 2,000th fomulaic
humanities paper.
 It's a horrible practice, and what makes it worse is that most instructors
who have something against a particular type of writing or genre of
fiction usually target SF or fantasy....

A beleaguered creative writing major
Chris [zelek@aramis.rutgers.edu]
From: mapd1@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Nigel Ling)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: More style stuff
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:53:37 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex

In article <3APR199219465906@coral.bucknell.edu> norbeck@coral.bucknell.edu (Naughty Nancy) writes:
>
>
>Since everyone's been discussing style lately I thought perhaps
>now would be a good time to ask this question.  When is it and 
>when is it not allowable for a character in the first person to
>address his/her audience?  
....................
>It's something I think could prove very interesting, as well as a
>lot of fun, to actually try in one of my own writings, but I have
>this feeling deep in my gut that's saying "This is one of those
>things only the big-shots can do, you'd better stick to the safe
>stuff."  That's never stopped me before.  But I wanted to get
>some opinions and other thoughts/comments before I try it.  Does
>the stuff above work just because it's an essential part of the
>character?  Or is it something else entirely?
>

This 'Dear Reader' sort of writing was more popular in the last
century but is rarer now. But perhaps you could make it fashionable
again. Why not.

Nigel
From: wkeown@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: "It was a dark and stormy night ..." Contest
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:46:49 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Apr1.192731.28138@mips.mitek.com>, mvick@hp835.mitek.com (Marty A. Vick) writes:
> 
> Assuming I have the title correct, does anyone have information
> and past winning entries for this annual contest? I read about
> this a few years ago.
> 
There are at least three collections of these entries that have been
printed as small paperback humor books:

_It was a dark and stormy night: the best(?) from the Bulwer-Lytton Contest_
Penguin Books, 1984, ISBN 0140075569

_Son of "It was a dark and stormy night": more of the best(?) from the
Bulwer-Lytton Contest_, Penguin Books, 1986, ISBN 0140088393

_Bride of dark and stormy: yet more of the best(?) from the Bulwer-Lytton
Fiction Contest_, Penguin Books, 1988, ISBN 014010304X

---
Wanda Keown                  wkeown@ducvax.auburn.edu
Auburn University
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: earp@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James K Earp)
Subject: Re: Alice in NeTland
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:48:46 GMT

This sounds like a great idea to me.  Only problem with getting
it published would be the chapters on Alice in Alt.sex!
From: yoshi@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (D M Yoshikami)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: You really want to be a writer?
Summary: Let's play political football
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:49:13 GMT
Organization: National Naval Medical Center

In article <64604@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>The business aspect is what most people end up fighting over most of the
>time. It's optional. There ARE lots of people who get off on writing stuff
>and never think of the business aspect. If you're interest is writing,
>then bag the business side and enjoy writing.
> [... text omitted ...]
>This is, of course, where I get in trouble with people and they start
>yelling at me. there are people who want to only focus on thee art/craft
>pairing and think the somehow, magically, they'll also get published.
>
>Wake up, folks. If you don't know the business, you aren't going to succeed,
>because there are lots of other folks out there who DO know the business and
>are just as good at the writing as you are. Or better. 

Yes.  Couldn't be put better.  I've learned in the past few years that no matter
how much I hate the business side of things, I've HAD to learn to play political
football OR be stomped underfoot.  In another newsgroup I once mentioned that
knowing how to play the ropes is so important it cannot be ignored ... and was 
promptly flamed by those who were poor at playing political football and 
couldn't get the resources they needed.  They said that knowing how to play
political football only causes more trouble as those who get ahead don't have
to know the art.  Yes, They are right.  BUT why do people who DO know the art 
exacerbate this problem, by lying down, ignoring the problem, and thus letting 
the politically shrewed but incompetant gain resources which they could put to 
better use?  It's one thing to be robbed, but it's quite another to deliberately
leave your front door and windows wide open and go on vacation for three months
and THEN have the chutzpah to complain that you were robbed.

Beethoven is well known for his music; but he was also a shrewd businessman.
His publishers often got the raw end of a deal, and he died, from what I under-
stand, with quite a bit of money.  Mozart was a terrible businessman and he
died young of disease.  How much more music would we have today if he knew his
business better, and had the money to stay healthy?  

Yes, you don't need to really know the business to write well.  But don't let
pride puff you up just because you're a better writer than the guy whose
published.  If you're really good, people will WANT to read your writing.  So
why let the other guy get away with it when people COULD be enjoying YOUR work?

DY :-)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
D M Yoshikami  :-) ;-) :-) | Internet: yoshikami@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil
May the Forth be with you! | Bitnet  : yoshikami@usuhsb.bitnet
***  !!xob X*NU V METSYS T&TA eht ni renosirp dleh gnieb m`I  !pleH  !pleH  ***
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: jimj@cleanplate.EBay.Sun.COM (James D. Jones)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Dangers of being a technical writer
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:59:26 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cleanplate.ebay.sun.com

In article <1992Apr15.130432.19828@linus.mitre.org> cgates@mitre.org (Curt Gates) writes:
=In article <1992Apr14.231559.31530@datamark.co.nz> tfarmer@datamark.co.nz 
=(Thomas Farmer) writes:
=> My word processing software is so much better than what everyone else
=> in the office has that I seem to be spending more and more time doing
=> secretarial work.
=
=It aint just your software, Tom.  ThatUs the way things are headed for a 
=while.   One of  these days, management is going to wake up and wonder 
=what happened to the productivity of tech writers, engineers, and vice 
=presidents.  Surprise!  Maybe half their time is spent on work that could 
=have been delegated to someone at a fraction of their salary.  On the 
=other hand, it might be less expensive in the long run.  This would make a 
=good thesis topic for someone.

Well, yeah.  As a technical writer, I've also been bugged by the amount
of work I do that seems purely secretarial.  It's boring.  But it's also
secretarial work that requires a good understanding of the subject matter,`
of department style (and how to interpret it in particular situations), and
enough smarts to know whether or not the rewording of a seemingly 
awkward sentence will change the meaning or not.  Not to mention a good
grasp of spelling, grammar, and word usage.

A very experienced secretary, with a good background in the subject, can handle
this more routine side of technical writing (I've seen this happen, and they
usually become tech writers eventually).  But people like that are not so 
common in the American workplace today, and command a pretty good
salary anyway.  The run-of-the-mill secretarial talent I see around here
couldn't handle it.

Maybe it wasn't always that way.  I've met some older executive secretaries
with awesome talents.  Maybe, in a just world, everybody ought to have been
educated in the skills needed to write simple instructional prose.  It's
not rocket science, that's for sure.  But, hey, education being what it is
today, few people can do this (even at the piss-poor standard of most technical 
writing today).  I guess we should be grateful for the job security.
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: robert@jetsun.weitek.COM (Robert Plamondon)
Subject: The Shorter, the Harder
Reply-To: robert@hemingway.WEITEK.COM (Robert Plamondon)
Organization: WEITEK, Sunnyvale CA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 16:29:01 GMT


Well, I've discovered something that's even harder to write than a
short-short:  ad copy.  Trying to give a clear, believable,
entertaining rendition in 75 words about why our chip is something
you just HAVE to design into your new motherboard is one of the
hardest things I ever did.  It only took two hours, but afterwards my
poor brain cells were comatose.  I had trouble speaking in whole
sentences the rest of the day.

Kind of fun, though.  It's a lot like writing poetry, but the
requirements are stiffer.  When I write poetry, I'm usually happy to
settle for whatever comes out -- I don't have rigorous requirements
about content.  Not so advertising.

Almost as bad was a two-sentence introduction to a catalog.  It had
to be real short, or nobody would bother to read it (given where it
was); and it's REAL HARD to encapsulate an entire product line in two
snappy sentences.

Novels are starting to look like summer vacation.

Any other closet Ad/Marcomm types out there? (I'm oozing a little
further from my technical roots into the razzle-dazzle side every
day.)

	-- Robert
-- 
    Robert Plamondon, robert@weitek.COM

"But that was just one of the many times I died!"
    -- Baron Munchausen
From: mapd1@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Nigel Ling)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Which way is out??
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:57:44 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex

In article <1992Apr8.115943.275@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale) writes:
>
>You probably won't avoid paradox (Does the infinitely branching universe
>story avoid paradox?  I'm never sure.) because time travel is paradoxical
>by nature.  You're trying to make the impossible sound possible without
>actually using the word "magic".


Of course there's always the possibility that you will be trapped into
living the same period of time over and over....

Of course there's always the possibility that you will be trapped into
living the same period of time over and over....

Of course there's always the possibility that you will be trapped into
living the same period of time over and over....

Of course there's always the possibility that you will be trapped into
living the same period of time over and over....

Giggle. Aren't I witty?
        Aren't I witty?
        Aren't I witty?
        Aren't I witty?



Nigel
Nigel 
Nigel
...
From: nfulton@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Good Writing -- Style and Contents
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:46:21 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <1992Apr13.121749.27575@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>,
yoshi@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (D M Yoshikami) writes:
> Erasmus had a stunt where to demonstrate the various ways of
> saying the same thing (along the lines of style) he rewrote the
> sentence (which was something like) "I enjoyed the letter you
> sent me" a hundred times or so (I don't remember precisely what
> the sentence was). Not all the sentences were good, in fact, some
> where horrible monstrosities (e.g. something like "When I read
> your Epistle, I was seized with extraordinary Pleasure").  Does
> anyone have the reference and some examples?  I can't remember
> exactly what he wrote (off the top of my head) and besides, the
> whole thing was in Latin.

I wasn't aware of that example, but in a similar vein, and
perhaps easier to find, is "Exercices du Style" (I think that's
roughly the right title) by Raymond Queneau.  It's a collection
of 100 different ways of describing a single scene.  And yes,
don't worry, it is available in an English translation :-)

Neil

-------------------
Neil Fulton
Pembroke College
Oxford
nfulton@vax.ox.ac.uk
From: sascmc@pecos.unx.sas.com (Christopher Mark Conn)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Asimov's SF Magazine
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:33:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: unx.1992Apr8.183309.2752
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
X-Bytes: 571

What will happen to Asimov's Science Fiction magazine now that he's gone?

I will miss his columns there and in F&SF too... I always enjoyed them.
The last one I read was really strange because he admitted how much trouble 
he was having writing and getting through it all. 

-- 
______________________________________________________________________________
Christopher Mark Conn                                       sascmc@unx.sas.com
Systems Administrator / AIX Host Development         
SAS Institute Inc. PO Box 200075 Austin, Texas 78720-0075 (512) 258-5171 X3369
From: cgates@mitre.org (Curt Gates)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Dangers of being a technical writer
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:04:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: linus.1992Apr15.130432.19828
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

In article <1992Apr14.231559.31530@datamark.co.nz> tfarmer@datamark.co.nz 
(Thomas Farmer) writes:
> My word processing software is so much better than what everyone else
> in the office has that I seem to be spending more and more time doing
> secretarial work.

It aint just your software, Tom.  ThatUs the way things are headed for a 
while.   One of  these days, management is going to wake up and wonder 
what happened to the productivity of tech writers, engineers, and vice 
presidents.  Surprise!  Maybe half their time is spent on work that could 
have been delegated to someone at a fraction of their salary.  On the 
other hand, it might be less expensive in the long run.  This would make a 
good thesis topic for someone.
Newsgroups: misc.writing