HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Down, how is it made?
Date: 8 Sep 92 10:14:21 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Sep4.174235.7594@informix.com>, proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:
> In article <1992Sep4.092321.9913@ennews.eas.asu.edu> guncer@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Otomatik Portakal ) writes:
>>In article <16760@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, kuan@taquito.engr.ucdavis.edu (Frank Kuan) writes:
>>> 
>>> How is silk made? Specifically, I'd like to know what degree silk
>>> worms are inconvenienced, and whether they are killed
>>> to facilitate mass production of silk. I'm a vegetarian for ethical
>>> reasons, and I'd like to know so I can alter my wardrobe accordingly.
>>> Thanks in advance.

>>What is done to produce silk, however, is to heat the cocoon once it 
>>completely covers the worm and kill it. So silk is by no means a 
>>cruelty-free product. 
> 
> Similarly, what about down (as in sleeping bags, down jackets, etc)?
> I am pretty sure that they kill a lot of geese to get enough down for
> a sleeping bag, but maybe it is "harvested" like wool - I don't know
> for certain.
> 
> Can anyone clarify?

Yes.  Firstly, in silk production, the silkworm (actually a caterpillar)
cocoon is heated to a little over 100deg F to kill the pupa, then the
cocoon, which is wound from the outside in from one continuous fiber
is unwound from the outside.  The bug must be killed to produce silk
and many, many are needed to produce one shirt.  I don't wear the
stuff simply since it costs so much and wears out so fast.  Yup,
gimme that 'ole cotton/polyester blend or plain cotton.  Anybody
heard about the new varieties of cotton just starting to come on
the market that is already colored.  No dye necessary, just spin
and weave!  

Secondly, no geese or ducks are killed or even harmed by the production
of down by normal methods.  The down is collected from the nests where
it was plucked by the duck/goose to insulate the nest (they are ground
nesting birds).  When I was in Iceland, we collected some from nests
that were in use.  Suprisingly, the ducks were totally unafraid of us
and seemed to even enjoy the attention.  They quickly plucked a little
more and replaced the amount that we took from the nest without
even getting up.  Their lack of fear of us must be due to a lack
of preditors for them there.  Today, with the ultra-light synthetic
insulating fibers out there like Hollofil and Qualafil (sp?) the only
reason for using something as expensive as down is where weight and
compressablity is essencial.  The synthetics are almost as light,
almost as good insulators and almost as compressable.  They have the
advantage of still retaining about half of their insulating qualities
when wet.  Down retains none.  They also cost far less.  

  TED FEUERBACH   Scientific Systems Consultant  Trilogy Consulting, Inc. 
  Lake St. Louis, MO        (314) 537-6603       tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed herein are MY OWN and obviously not
  the opinions of Trilogy, Monsanto or either of my two ex-wives.           
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: helix@vesta.unm.edu (heli  fairweather)
Subject: Cinncinnati vegetarian sources
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 19:30:48 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Hi! A friend of mine needs some help from the net ..she has just moved to
Cinncinnati to go to grad school and she cannot find any vegetarian rest-
aurants. Does anyone out there know of any? how about food co-ops? good
organic vegetable markets? vegetarian restaurants? health food type
restaurants?

Please respond to me e-mail as I don't read this group regularly.
Thanks,

Helix Fairweather
helix@vesta.unm.edu
From: bell-peter@CS.YALE.EDU (Peter Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Gnochi recipe request
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:00:31 GMT
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158

In article <1992Sep14.173412.158@ms.uky.edu> tek@ms.uky.edu (Thomas E. Kunselman) writes:
>
> I have this gnochi stuff whenever I visit relatives in eastern Pennsylvania.

>I have never seen it anywhere else.  Does anyone on here have a recipe 

>Thomas Kunselman                               {rutgers,uunet}!ukma!tek 
>Office of Planning & Assessment          	bitnet: vaatek@ukcc.bitnet
>#8 Administration Building			internet:tek@ms.uky.edu
>University of Kentucky

This recipe does not include tomatoes, but should start you in the 
right direction.  It is from the Vegetarian Epicure, book two.  
Potato gnocchi

2 lb russet potatoes
1.5 C flour, more if needed
2 tsp salt
1 egg, lightly beaten
~.5 C butter, melted, to taste
Swiss or Parmesan cheese

boil the potatoes in their jackets until tender.  Drain them, let them cool
slightly, peel them and put them through a ricer or fine blade food mill

work the potatoes, flour, salt, and egg into a dough.  The dough should be
manageable but soft.

Take 1/3 of the dough at a time, and on a lightly floured board, shape it into
a long, thick, cylinder.  Roll and stretch gently until you have a rope about
1 inch thick.  Cut into half inch lengths, repeat with the remaining dough.

To cook the gnocchi, drop them into 6-8 quarts of boiling salted water for 
8-10 minutes or until they are cooked through.  remove with a slotted spoon
and drain.  

Arange them in one layer on a well-buttered casserole or gratin dish, drizzle
melted butter over them and sprinkle to taste with grated cheese.

Bake in an oven preheated to 350 degrees for 15-20 minutes or until they are
hot enough and the cheese is beginning to brown.

the gnocchi can also be served with marinara or cream sauce.

Just looking at this recipe, I wonder what will happen when I add chopped 
walnuts or possibly raisins to this next time I make it.  Probably in the 
dough rather than on top....

Cheers!

Peter
bell@minerva.cis.yale.edu
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: cruelty-free unsale
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:47:02 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Sep3.163214.1965@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu>, 
red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:

[....]

> Have a "Cruelty-free Unsale." 

[....]

> Even if you fail to sell *any* thing, you'll have educated the
> public about your concerns.
> 
> If you *do* sell anything, it'll probably to to a person who 
> doesn't care about environmentalism/animal rights etc, and thus
> might have bought a brand new equivalent (thus further supporting
> the market for that item) if not for your sale.

[....]

> Lemme know if you think this idea is half-cocked, decent, brilliant,
> idiotic or what.  thanx.

All of the above.  ;-)   

This could be a great educational tool if done carefully and gently
so you don't come off as a wild eyed radical, communist, etc.  ;-) 
In other words don't take on an adversarial role with the customer.
As long as you don't shock or scare them off with this (thus having
the opposite of the desired effect), it would be an ideal way to 
rid yourself of such things.  As you said, rather than throw them
away, sell them to somebody that would otherwise buy new ones.
Like when the activists throw paint on someone's fur coat, all that
the victim does is call their insurance company and buy another.
Education however can make a real difference in the way people act.

The makeup should not be sold however.  Old makeup could have 
degraded or become contaminated.  Use that as a display only for
informational purposes and tell people about cruelty free ones.

You could even try calling the local newspaper and tv station to
see if they wanted to do a human interest story about what you 
are doing.  

  TED FEUERBACH   Scientific Systems Consultant  Trilogy Consulting, Inc. 
  Lake St. Louis, MO        (314) 537-6603       tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed herein are MY OWN and obviously not
  the opinions of Trilogy, Monsanto or either of my two ex-wives.           
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: drew@cs.anu.edu.au (Drew Corrigan)
Subject: Re: Interested in Calcium ?
Organization: Computer Science Department, ANU, Australia
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:37:52 GMT

young@serum.kodak.com writes:
>>BONING UP ON CALCIUM AND OSTEOPOROSIS
>>
>[...PCRM presentation deleted for brevity...]
>
>	The following is a re-post of some information originally posted
>	by Krista J. Anderson:

Having read both these postings I don't think the issue is whether or not
dairy products can supply calcium needs, but rather 1/ how much calcium
is actually needed, and 2/ what are the best sources of it. 

With regards to point 1, the area to focus upon is retaining calcium in the 
body (through exercise) and a diet which is low in animal proteins. 
Additionally the evidence indicates that a vegetarian needs less calcium in 
their diet than the various RDA estimates suggest.

With regards to point 2, while dairy products might be a source of calcium
they are not the best source when other factors are considered. These 
include the fat and cholesterol content of milk and cheese, lactose in-
tolerance, antibiotics present in the milk, allergies to milk proteins and 
the studies linking milk consumption to ovarian cancer, cataracts and 
juvenile diabetes.

I for one suffer from lactose intolerance as does my daughter. I had chronic
constipation as a child and stomach cramps in my teens and twenties. It
wasn't until I switched to a whey-based very low lactose milk derivative
that the stomach cramps left. My daughter suffered from eczema as a baby
until we switched to soy formula, and later to this "whey milk". We have
a number of friends whose children experience very bad asthma attacks and
inner ear infections when milk is included in their diets. 

Clearly for some (and indeed 3/4 of the earth's population since 3/4 are
lactose intolerant) dairy products are not an ideal way of supplying the 
body's calcium needs.

Drew.
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Lebanese Vegipes
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:45:51 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Readers might like to know about a book of traditional Lebanese
vegetarian recipes I came across this weekend, "Food for the Vegetarian"
by Aida Karaoglan. I'ts a large-sized paperback published by Interlink
Books of New York in 1987. I bought it from the So. Cal. Vegetarian Society
booth at the Whole Life Expo in Los Angeles this weekend.

Readers in Los Angeles might also like to know of a new Chinese vegetarian
restaurant, "The Fragrant Vegetable" on Wilshire a few blocks west
of the San Diego freeway. It is a branch of a restaurant of the same
name in Monterey Park.

I ate at the Monterey Park branch yesterday--they had a wonderful
and delicate Chinese Broccoli in bean sauce, and a robust eggplant
dish. The Monterey Park branch also serves fresh seafood, so those
offended by the sight of waitresses taking live fish and crustaceans
out of a tank with a net and dumping them in buckets to be taken
to the kitchen might want to avoid the place. Dunno if the West
L.A. branch does the same.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: vive valeque
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 01:05:38 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1992Sep05.075724.26234@btcs.bt.co.uk> traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:

>                                I'm not even here and people still
>find it necessary to publicly flame me.
>-- 
>Michael Traub

And why do you suppose this is so? People don't flame other people,
unless you give them a reason. You have given me plenty of reason.
I'm tired of receiving you inflammatory e-mail, among other things.

Furthermore, nobody gives a damn about reading your saved copies
of our old conversations. They can infer all they need to know just
by the inflammatory tone of your current posting.

Your self-imposed exile from rec.food.veg has obviously ended. It
didn't last very long either. I knew it wouldn't. It was nothing but a
transparent, childish ploy to gain sympathy. 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: vegetarians gaining recognition
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:09:01 GMT

I just thought I'd mention that I've noticed two instances of articles
in a newspaper and magazine where the vegetarian diet was presented in
a reasonably accurate fasion.  That is, the articles didn't warn readers
off with a caveat about calcium, protein, iron or B12 dificiencies.

The first article (or series of two I think) recently appeared in the
Toronto Daily Star (a large Canadian news paper).  I noticed that
shortly after the articles appeared, there was a letter to the
editor pointing out that it was possible for someone to eat a healthy
diet which included meat and dairy products -- I think the reader
chided the newspaper for failing to point that out in the article :-).
The reader was associated with the agribusiness I think.

The second instance was more recent.  I found an article on vegetarian diet
in the current Muscle & Fitness magazine.  It even goes as far as to say that
you don't *need* meat or dairy in your diet, and one can choose not to
eat either without ill effects.  The doctor interviewed in the article
was none other than Michael Klaper (who wrote: Vegan Nutrition, pure and 
simple).  The article even said that one could be a bodybuilder and remain
vegetarian... More than that, the article even refuted the inflated protein
requirement claims rampant in these magazines.

I was sure surprised to find such an article in a Weider magazine.  Of course
there were a dozen claims elsewhere that a bodybuilder just had to have
a couple of pounds of pure, high quality protein every day, along with
Weider super-mega protein powders etc. :-)  But still... I was
surprised to see an article that was positive towards vegan diets in
such a magazine.  I won't hold my breath waiting for the next one though.

Regards,
Tom
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Subject: Re: vive valeque
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1992 07:57:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep04.125402.27245@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>By the way, anyone who believes Ted's story about Mike Traub being
>a kind, gentle, generous vegetarian ought to read the inflammatory
>e-mail I receive from Mike on a near daily basis. There is so much
>of it, I wrote Mike Traub this morning and said anything more that
>I receive from him will be zapped without being read.

Needless to say this guy is a *despicable* liar. I have back copies
of *all* email concersations between myself and this person. Anyone
wishing to see his lying first hand may obtain a copy from me.

He thinks my non-appearance on this newsgroup gives him carte-blanche
to lie. Don't do it again George, you are annoying me and wasting
resources with your blabberings.

P.S. I left university over 11 years ago. This guy is even incapable
of reading the "Organization:" line in a news header.

To those readers that keep sending me email requesting my return,
please don't. I shant bother while fools like Mr. Clarke continue
spreading lies in this newsgroup. I'm not even here and people still
find it necessary to publicly flame me.



-- 
Michael Traub
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: how accurate is your sense of smell/taste?
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:00:25 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ocie Mitchell) wrote:
> zeke@reed.edu (Zeke Koch) writes:
>> Well most bacon  bits (ie baco bits) _are_ vegan (as nasty as they might
>> be they have no animal products in them.
> I have read on packages of baco-s and the like that they contain "natural
> flavorings" would this include bacon?

Nope.  It's expensive to extract flavour from meat, and quite easy to
synthesize something that will taste the same in a snack food.  Depending
on your country's labelling laws, these flavourings may be MSG or all kinds
of products of extreme chemical veggie-munging, but won't be meat-based.
These people figured out long ago that vegetables have more taste...

I know from inside information, having seen the company's own proprietary
formula, that one of the UK's leading brands of bacon flavour crisps is
vegan.  I assume the others are too; this sort of flavour isn't difficult
to fake.  (Others are harder: nobody knows how to make a cheese flavour
economically without real cheese, which is why the nutrient analysis of a
cheese crisp will differ radically from the other flavours in a company's
product line).  You can tell easily from the label in the UK: "X flavoured"
means it's got X in it, "X flavour" means it doesn't.

It's worth writing to food companies to ask about the composition of their
products.  It keeps them on their toes; most won't have more than one
person paid to think about this sort of thing.  You might be surprised at
the range of answers you get.  I suspect kosher inspectorates may be a
useful source of information in the US; they have much tougher standards
than any veggie goy - if a machine has *ever* been used to process a pork-
based product they'll condemn what comes out of it.

[ Zeke, can you keep your postings under 80 columns wide? ]

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: vegan sources: B12, D3 and iron
Keywords: iron
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:53:47 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <9SEP199212172693@cc.utah.edu> ewstroup@cc.utah.edu (ERIC W. STROUP) writes:
>There has been a recent study by Dr. Jukka Salonen  that gave clinical 
>evidence(1,931 patients) to the theory that iron content in the blood
>is linked to the risk of heart attack ( published in the September 
>issue of Circulation).  Dr. Jerome Sullivan wrote an accompanying
>article in which he stated that the study is "the first solid evidence"
>supporting the 1981 theory of Iron being a risk factor for heart disease.

It's certainly an interesting study.  It would be premature to
throw out iron supplements, and you can't necessarily ascribe
heart disease to supplemental iron in the diet.  We'll have to
see how this progresses.  I imagine that there will be a lot
of interest in performing follow-up studies trying to confirm this
and also to look more closely at the mechanisms of its deleterious
actions.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: terri@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (St Theresa of the Net)
Subject: Re: the term "vegetarian"
Organization: Computing Something Division
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 16:53:32 GMT

In article <BtG0Cx.2q3@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us> popcorn@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Valerie Mates) writes:
>Yes!!!  It took a year or two at my office before I could nuke a tub
>of leftovers and eat it in peace for lunch ...


heh. At my work we only have one microwave back in the food prep part of
the kitchen, so when i heat anything -- breakfast cereal, veggies, eggplant
in tomato sauce, whatever -- i have to give it to the cooks to heat. I make
sure the cover is loose so it doesn't blow up the tub or the microwave or
anything, so they always look in, and some times they ask me what it is.

my favorite was "This must be HEALTH FOOD."

-- 
A little bit of uh huh and a whole lot of oh yeah.   \  (414)CRUSH-13
T. Flynn's Casa de Interesting: 1755 N Cambridge Ave #306 Milwaukee WI 53202    
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: adwright@iastate.edu ()
Subject: pre-frozen tofu is firmer
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:04:12 GMT

I read somewhere that when tofu is frozen, then thawed, it has a firm 
texture. I have tried it and was pleased with the results. This resilence 
opened up a lot of new cooking possibilites.

I took a pack of frozen-thawed tofu and cut it into slices, then fried
these "steaks" with chopped garlic. A few minutes later i added some
tomato soup, simmered it and served over rice. 

Later, I repeated the above meal, but marinated the tofu slices in tamari
sauce and had somewhat better success. A third experiment with store-bought
curry in addition helped even more.

Anybody got any other ways to enhance the flavor of tofu?

 It looks firm enough to barbeque on a grill. Anyone ever try that?
Cheers,
Allen
From: nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Wanted: Pasta recipe (Vegan)
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:01:38 GMT
Organization: NRL

In article <21948@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, kirk@cs.arizona.edu (Rebecca A. Kirk) writes:
> 
> I've been on a search for an eggless pasta recipe.  There must
> be one somewhere since plenty of the pasta in stores say that they are
> made only with Durum Wheat Flour.
> 
Here are 2 recipes I picked up from the archives at umiami. I 
haven't tried them, though, so can't personally vouch for their
success. Tell me if they work, please!
-------------------------------------------In the Joy of Cooking you can find the following:

				Basic pasta

2-1/2C white flour		2/3C water		1t olive oil

In a bowl, mix dry ingredients and make a well.  Beat liquids and pour
into well.  Mix dry ingredients until dough forms and as much of the
flour as possible is mixed in.  Turn out on a floured board or table.
Flour your hands and knead dough until smooth and elastic, dusting your
hands as needed.

Roll into a ball, warp with plastic wrap (or cover with a wet towel)
and allow dough to rest 10 minutes.  Cut into four pieces and shape
into desired pasta.  If dough gets sticky, lightly dust with flour.

Green noodles:

puree' approximately 1/4C fresh or frozen spinach with the oil and
water in a blender.  Mix it with the eggs and beat together [obviously,
if you're not using eggs, this just goes in as part of the amount of
water you're using].  Add as usual.

Various other colorants may be used, instead of spinach:

tomato paste
puree'd tomatoes
puree'd beets (drained, or substitute their liquid for water)
puree'd cooked carrots

-babs

>From the September 1991 issue of Vegetarian Times:

Basic Pasta Dough
=================
1 cup ww pastry flour (we've found it works much better if half of this is
			unbleached white)
pinch salt
1 tsp. olive oil
1/4 cup water

Put it into a mixer with bread hooks or a food processor, and knead until
really smooth.  I suppose you could also do this by hand, but I haven't 
tried it!

We've also substituted 1/4 of the flour with kamut, buckwheat etc. to 
add extra flavor, and the recipe suggested that chopped spinach, herbs,
or tomatoe paste could be added.

astels@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Dave Astels
From: dhembrow@eoe.co.uk (David Hembrow)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: England
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:03:56 GMT
Organization: EO Europe Limited, Cambridge, UK
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

In article <1992Sep9.163349.4883@umbc3.umbc.edu> cs311113@umbc8.umbc.edu (cs311113) writes:
>A quick request... I have a vegetarian friend going to England for 3 months 
>this fall, and she could use any information on Vege resturants or food
>places.  She will be relatively near London...

My favourite restaurant in London and quite easy to find ( if you get an
A-Z map ) is Diwana in Drummond Street which is right next to Euston
Railway station.

This is a vegetarian Indian restaurant if you like that sort of stuff.

David.
Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes