From: floyd@hayes.ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
Subject: Re: CALL FOR STRAW VOTE: NATIVE NEWSGROUP
Date: 22 Dec 92 06:05:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: raven.1992Dec22.060524.7750
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network

hades@Dartmouth.Edu writes:
>emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Dec17.173313.11161@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>
>>   If there is going to be a gateway between this group and a mailing
>>   list, then I think that it is an issue that should be voted upon by
>>   the members of UseNet who will be effected by the increase in
>>   traffic that this would bring about.
>
>>Excuse me, but moving a big mailing list to news will /decrease/
>>traffic.  News is more efficient than mail for wide distribution and
>>more convenient when the traffic is heavy because of the filter
>>features of newsreaders.  The existence of NATIVE-L, etc., is one of
>>my prime motivators for helping this project get started on the right
>>foot.
>
>    It will increase the traffic to the newsgroup, and this is what I
>was talking about. In fact if the mailing list is that big then it will
>be a significant increase in traffic for the newsgroup, and needs to be
>discussed even more.

I agree that the significance of linking the newsgroup and the
mailing list is that it will increase traffic.  The prime example
is the traffic increase to alt.native after it was linked to the
mailing list.  Excluding discussion of RFD's, the difference has
been very pleasant and each day now has about the same traffic
that alt.native once had in a week or two.  And that volume has
hardly been too much to handle.

Traffic volume and increased exposure is indeed the purpose of the
link, and does suit the purpose of the news group.  It could also
be hoped that moving from an alt group to a mainline newsgroup
would bring another increase in traffic.

If Brian, or anyone else, is against that in theory, I'm astounded...
I expect such a result would cause everyone else to be ecstatic.

>>   and you can believe that I will do everything that I can to get
>>   other to vote it down as well.
>
>>Do your worst.  I must say I am surprised to hear some of the greatest
>>potential opposition to this proposal coming from someone who was
>>active in a previous attempt.
>
>    My opposition stems from the methods being applied in conjunction
>with this proposal. I happen to support the group.

Brian, if you support the group, then why don't you support
discussion and polling to find a consensus?  What other methods do
you see here?  Or was that just rhetoric and theraputic noise?

You basically said that you don't care what anyone else wants; you
will work against any proposal that includes one particular
concept...  right after you point out the significance of that
concept is to increase traffic to the group.

Why don't you want traffic in the group and what do you want the
newsgroup for otherwise?

>here, and if you are having people vote who do not even have the access
>to read UseNet at their site, then there is something wrong with the
>people handling the vote.

When Brian held a vote on this very subject it was almost voted in
largly by people from the mailing list.  I don't recall any
complaining about it then...  We all know that NativeNet mailing
list subscribers are going to be almost totally in favor of *any*
move that is presented as increasing the coverage and depth of the
basic computer networked forum for discussion of "native"
cultures.  When the previous proposal didn't win with that kind of
backing it should be obvious that it wasn't right.  Now that the
subject has once again come up it seems all the more necessary
that we do indeed determine what actually is the right formula.

We really haven't had much of any opposition to the most basic
idea.  What has yet to be found, considering this and the previous
attempt, is a consensus on what is the right formula.  I will once
again declare that we should spend less time bickering about a
name to start with, and more to determine what the heck it is we
are going to name!  We should be discussing what the charter is
before trying to pick a name.  And I do commend Brian for his
focus on that area too.

Floyd
-- 
floyd@ims.alaska.edu        A guest on the Institute of Marine Science computer
Salcha, Alaska              system at the University of Alaska at Fairbanks.