From: muller@world.std.com (James L Muller)
Subject: Re: riding the faders
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:46:57 GMT

In <1992Aug26.163224.13710@nntp.uoregon.edu> jrusby@darkwing.uoregon.edu
   (Jim T. Rusby) writes:
>In <BtLI8M.Ax2@world.std.com> muller@world.std.com (James L Muller) writes:
>>The guy working the board...kept riding the faders up and down...
>>during the set.  The question is, why...?

Thanks for the reply.

>There are a few situations where any engineer will "pot
>down" regardless of the artists request. I will try to list them.
>  1. A mic is on and apparently not being used. It hasn't been used for
>this song and the engineer doesnt know that the fiddle player on the end
>of the stage is going to run over and use it.

In most cases, the mics for a bluegrass band are either used for all
songs (or available for use), or obviously unused and set aside, being
there only for some previous or subsequent band.  If a mic is set up
for use, the band will assume it is available.  In fact, in most cases
each player has one instrument mic and one vocal mic (if that person
sings), and there is no question of someone running to another stand
to use some heretofore unused mic.  As you say, the engineer cannot
know what the band is going to do, and the band can't stop in the
middle of a song and ask for some mic to be brought back up so some
2-second fill can be heard.  In any case, it was worse in this case
(as it is with the common complaint) because the guy kept running
down mics that were clearly and unambiguously assigned to certain
instruments and voices.  When the guys pulls down an active mic
during a song, then he either clearly has a reason or policy to do
so, or he is a real nitwit.  In a few cases (well, hell, in a lot of
cases), feedback is a problem but that is usually because the house
is run too hot anyway, so pulling it down is the real solution.
(In most of those cases, it a knowledgeable bluegrass person on the
board who has lost his sense of perspective of how loud it really is,
so it never occurs to him that pulling any single active fader would
be a possible solution.  Bluegrass players themselves tend to have
poor understanding of the PA, even if they know their music.)

>  2. The engineer hears an imbalance the artists may not be able to hear,
>because they are listening to a separate monitor mix.

True enough, because the artist can never tell what is going out front
if the monitors are functional.  In this case, that wasn't the issue.

>Honestly, the rock vs. bluegrass inference is probably going to prompt one
>or two flames.  Its sort of like us vs. them or artist vs. soundman.

Your humor is understood, but seriously, I did not mean any slur on rock
players or any polarization.  The technical facets are different between
rock and bluegrass, so as I explained in my original note, the sound guy
might intentionally do things for one that don't work for the other.  I
figure there must be a reason for that sort of "unacceptable" performance
because I would expect that most sound engineers, rock background or not,
really do want to do a good job.  So when a problem like this shows up so
consistently, there must be a legitimate reason.

>I trust that you have performed enough to have observed a problem.

My current band has been playing about 14 years, and now averages about
50 to 100 shows a year, or about 150 to 200 set of music.  For most of
those shows we do our own sound, but at summer festivals it is almost
always some outside sound company.  For the other bands at this festival,
some were only 5 years old and some were over 30.

>What is the average size festival you have participate in
>and where did they get their engineers?

The smallest probably has about 500 in the audience, and the largest
has about 6000.  The engineers are often from some local band for the
smaller festivals, and usually some seemingly fly-by-night sound company
for the larger ones.  Occasionally the company will be seriously excellent,
but alas, that isn't very common.

> Did they hire Showco, Maryland Sound, Clair Bros. or did
>they get an industry sponsor to donate gear and a salesman to run it?

No, no, no, and no.  (I don't know whether that is good or bad...)

>I have mixed a lot of bluegrass, accompanied by little or no pay. Its just
>not a high budget venue from a festival standpoint. There are exceptions

Therein lies part of the problem.  It should be a higher priority or
higher-budget item, but usually isn't.

>What some artists interpret as a "power trip" might be a soundmans attempt
>to be responsible.

Yes, well that's what I thought, so there must be some reason why what
he thinks is responsible is considered so much of a problem by others.
You confirmed one of my thoughts, that is a a concious policy to reduce
feedback (at the expense of the artists' intent, of which he may not be
fully aware).  The other possibility I cojectured was that this is a
common feature of mixing rock due to the players' lack of precision on
their volume control.  You obviously didn't support that one.

Thanks for the reply.