HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: c9221777@cc.newcastle.edu.au (Brother Redeye)
Subject: Re: Seratonin Question (back to the topic)
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 04:37:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.193714.32615@ux1.cts.eiu.edu>, cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:
> In article <98!p#+r.mesm@netcom.com> mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris) writes:
>>
>>Sometimes a substance increases the quantity of a neurotransmitter in the
>>brain and  there is more stuff available. Sometimes a substance increases the
>>need or use of a neurotransmitter.(n.t.) 
>>The best way to increase the brain is to have both a heightened source
>>of the n.t. and accelerate the use of that n.t.
>>If you use a drug that just uses up current supply, then you crash
>>and are deficient for a while. If you use a drug that just supplies
>>the substance, the use may increase but only to a slightly higher level. 
> 
>     Almost none of the above is correct.  Consult any basic medicinal
> chemistry text for a description of how neurotransmitter level-affecting
> drugs work.  In any case, eating neurotransmitters does not increase brain
> levels of these chemicals for several reasons.
> 
As I recall the topic being discussed here wasn't eating neurotransmitters but
the consumption of drugs that would affect neurotransmitter activity - that of
seratonin in particular - and their interaction.  On this topic, if anyone is
interested in further information on MDMA (3,4 Methylenedioxymethamphetamine) I
do have an article in front of me that may be of some interest, although it is
not referenced - experts out there may be interested in shooting some of the
assertions made down in flames.


> -- 
>    ******************************************************************
>      Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
>      Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All opinions expressed herein are my own and do not reflect those of the
University of Newcastle ... but then again, as I have to pay to use these
facilities anyway, who really cares?!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Send all hate mail to: c9221777@cc.newcastle.edu.au
                   or: c9221777@wombat.newcastle.edu.au
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: aankrom@nyx.cs.du.edu (Anthony Ankrom)
Subject: Re: nootropics
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 19:05:37 GMT



 Which part of Ginkgo biloba is used in extracts? We have a lot of planted
Ginkgos on our old farm. They are pretty old and rather large. It is root
or root-bark?

St. Anthony

--
        CH3  O            CH(CH3)2        |      dadaMatrix
           >-P-S-CH2CH2-N<            VX  |                       
    CH3CH2O               CH(CH3)2        |     aankrom@nyx.cs.du.edu
                                          | A kinder gentler lobotomy...
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Subject: Re: Seratonin Question (using this group as asked : -))
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 19:37:14 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <98!p#+r.mesm@netcom.com> mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris) writes:
>
>Sometimes a substance increases the quantity of a neurotransmitter in the
>brain and  there is more stuff available. Sometimes a substance increases the
>need or use of a neurotransmitter.(n.t.) 
>The best way to increase the brain is to have both a heightened source
>of the n.t. and accelerate the use of that n.t.
>If you use a drug that just uses up current supply, then you crash
>and are deficient for a while. If you use a drug that just supplies
>the substance, the use may increase but only to a slightly higher level. 

    Almost none of the above is correct.  Consult any basic medicinal
chemistry text for a description of how neurotransmitter level-affecting
drugs work.  In any case, eating neurotransmitters does not increase brain
levels of these chemicals for several reasons.

-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ.
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: German nootropics source?
From: rteasdal@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Rusty)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 02:02:53 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, CSc Department


	In yesterday's mail, I got an intriguing flyer from a
German reseller of Eurospec pharmaceuticals (the usual suspects -
Piracetam, Hydergine, et al.)

	I'd sent in to InHome Health Services and Interlab both
for catalogs, just before FDA instructed Customs to start to
intercept incoming packages from those companies. Thanks to the
quick wits of several net posters, I found out about the new
seizure policy in time to avoid throwing any money away on an
order. Now, it seems that one or the other company has either 
sold its mailing list, or is doing business again under a new
name and address.

	I'm in something of a quandary here. On the one hand, I
am somewhat reluctant to jump in and send money to a company of
which I had heard nothing previously before receiving their order
form in the mail. I can easily imagine a bucket-shop operation
set up to take quick and profitable advantage of U.S. consumers
running something like this. On the other hand, I'm more than
a little reluctant to just go ahead and post the name of the firm
to the open net, given the speed with which the other, demonstrably
honest and reputable, firms got their orders nicked at the border.
God only knows whether or not the FDA has the vitamin police 
reading the net now, or not. It is now open knowledge that certain
other federal agencies do read groups of interest to them on a
regular basis... and I wouldn't want to make life too easy for
our helpful friends in Washington, if they don't yet know about
this particular firm.

	Here's a compromise. Anyone who's ordered successfully
from a German firm in recent months, let me know. I'll try to
make an informed decision about whether or not to publicize the
name on that basis. Of course, if this is a sham, then it's in
the best interests of the net readers to know about it at once...
If you've been ripped off by such a firm, don't hesitate to
post the name so other will know what to avoid!




 
-- 
||||||||   Russ Teasdale -- rteasdal@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU  --  (Rusty)  ||||||||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gentlemen, if we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure." - D. Quayle
From: kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Non-Drug Induced States
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:29:33 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology

Hello,
  I'm starting to work on my senior thesis for art.  I'm interested in 
"non-drug-induced tripping" or states of well-being.  I've been looking into
the use of such things by rotating mandlebrot/fractal color patterns (looks
like tie-dye patterns) and also by the effects of stereoscopic (3-d, crosseyed
view, etc) images.  There are other ways to go about this kind of stuff
(I think that Timothy Leary is getting involved with it)  Since I don't do
drugs, it's hard to know if I'm approaching the same results, although things
can still be "funky" to me.
An example of this effect of "pseudo-tripping":
  Once at the Limelight, in NYC I was sitting in a small side dance room.
There weren't too many people in there, this light was shining off a mirrored
disco ball and created hundreds of little lights on the floor moving around.
If I followed the lights around it was alright, but when I stared at one
spot on the floor, it felt like I was flying and spinning around.  If effects
like these are combined with stereo sound (oscillating between speakers..
to cause a rotating effect) total disorientation of the user/viewer will occur.
Do you know of any publications (books, magazine articles, etc) that deal
with this sort of thing?  Any information will be appreciated.
 - Thanks

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kirk Membry             ( * * * T H I S   S P A C E   F O R   R E N T * * * )

kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu                                    kpm8447@teak.njit.edu
kmembry@andromeda.rutgers.edu                             kpm8447@maple.njit.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-- 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kirk Membry             ( * * * T H I S   S P A C E   F O R   R E N T * * * )

kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu                                    kpm8447@teak.njit.edu
kmembry@andromeda.rutgers.edu                             kpm8447@maple.njit.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: eesnyder@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Eric E. Snyder)
Subject: Re: Legality of primer substances
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date:  1 Oct 92 14:36:52 GMT

>In article <1992Sep29.160229.1@summer.chem.su.oz.au> morgan_j@summer.chem.su.oz.au writes:
>>Now, since the primer itself has no central effects similar to any C1
>>substance, and would not be ingested with the intention of inducing such
>>effects (the LSD etc would bet taken for that purpose), does that mean that
>>possession/use of a primer would be legal?

Although it goes against the original intent of the CSA, the DEA has controlled 
a number of precursor substances.  These substances have no pharmacological
activity in common with the original controlled substance.  Lysergic acid
is C-III and a precursor of LSD.  Phenylacetone is C-II and a precursor of 
methamphetamine.  Thebaine is C-III and a precursor of the highly potent
oripavine opiates (Diels-Alder adducts of thebaine). 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TTGATTGCTAAACACTGGGCGGCGAATCAGGGTTGGGATCTGAACAAAGACGGTCAGATTCAGTTCGTACTGCTG
Eric E. Snyder                            
Department of MCD Biology              ...making feet for childrens' shoes.
University of Colorado, Boulder   
Boulder, Colorado 80309-0347
LeuIleAlaLysHisTrpAlaAlaAsnGlnGlyTrpAspLeuAsnLysAspGlyGlnIleGlnPheValLeuLeu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eli Brandt)
Subject: Re: Seratonin Question (using this group as asked : -))
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 06:45:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.140419.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> c9221777@cc.newcastle.edu.au (Brother Redeye) writes:
>Of particular interest is the effect on someone on a regular course of this
>drug taking something like "ecstacy" - a designer drug that affects the levels

Chlorimipramine (Anafranil) is active as an inhibitor of serotonin
reuptake.  I've heard anecdotally that fluoxetine (Prozac), a
selective 5HT reuptake inhibitor, blocks the effects of X.  On the
up side, it non-anecdotally blocks the neurotoxicity too.  See
Schmidt in J. Pharmacol. and Exptl. Therap.  1987, 240(1), 1-7.
Whether this is entirely relevant to your question about Anafranil I
don't know.  Unfortunately, I doubt anybody's ever tested this
particular combination.

   Eli   ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu
From: yazz@locus.com (Bob Yazz)
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Date: 3 Oct 92 04:28:39 GMT

ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont) writes:

| Is anyone familiar with the dynamic of pyridioxine supplementation (pro
| and con) with regard to production of brain dopamine..
| (I understand that Vitamin B6 completly inactivates l-dopa.)

It's sort of the reverse, with the same outcome.

B-6 helps convert l-DOPA to dopamine.  This happens both inside and
outside the brain.  But dopamine, unlike B-6 and l-DOPA, does not
cross the blood-brain barrier.  If it's outside the brain it stays
there.

That's why Parkinson's patients (who suffer from a lack of dopamine
inside the brain) don't take B-6.  There are special multi-vitamins
that intentionally omit B-6 made just for them.

Also, treating these patients with just l-DOPA is usually not done.
Instead, a combination drug called Sinement is used.  It contains
the l-DOPA plus another drug that inhibits the conversion of l-DOPA
to dopamine.  This inhibitor, cleverly enough, is incapable of crossing
into the brain.  So, the l-DOPA doesn't get used up by being converted
in the periphery.  Instead there's plenty left to cross into the brain
where it is converted to dopamine.

== Bob Yazz ==
-- 


"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that
one word is 'to be prepared.'" -America's own Danny "Mr. Potatoe Head" Quayl
From: cutrell@nic.cerf.net (Doug Cutrell)
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: GABAergics as hallucinogens
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:52:22 GMT
Organization: CERFnet

GABA is available OTC in California -- at least, I purchased a bottle
in San Diego at a local health food store.  60 capsules of 750 mg.
each for $12.  The manufacturer is Metabolic Maintenance Products,
and they seem a little paranoid about it because the side of the
bottle reads: "use only as directed by a Doctor.  Caution: do not
take with alcohol or prescription drugs".  I bought it as a sleep
aid an growth hormone releasing stimulant (as a body building
supplement) -- it seems to have a limited reputation as an
anabolic.  I can report that it works very well as a sleeping aid,
but sometimes caused strange nightmares when taken several nights
in a row, and also may have suppressed REM sleep, since I seemed
to experience "dream rebound" on subsequent nights.  I've never
taken it during the day.

Doug Cutrell
cutrell@cerf.net
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:23:05 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep28.183049.21066@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:
>[my post that eating NT precursors doesn't raise NT brain levels deleted]
>>    This is strictly untrue, as L-dopa (a direct precursor to
>>Dopamine) is commonly used (as a drug) to reduce symptoms of
>>Parkinson's disease. The large dose of the metabolic precursor raises
>>the levels high enough to make L-Dopa a relatively potent drug. I'm
>    You're right; I was locked into thinking about the "smart drug"
>controversy and forgot about L-dopa.  I don't know what L-dopa does for
>"normal" people, but its use in those with diminished dopamine levels is
>undisputed.

Well, there are a couple of points to be made.  l-DOPA is not an ordinary
part of the diet; it's unusual in that it takes only the ubiquitous amino-
acid decarboxylase to generate the neurotransmitter dopamine.  Phenylalanine,
tyrosine and tryptophan all require further enzymatic massaging to produce
dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin, and it is usually the activities of
these essential enzymes which are the rate-limiting step in neurotransmitter
biosynthesis, and not their presence in the diet.  So, at the very least,
loading the engine up front with naturally occurring precursor amino acids
is not the same as administering DOPA.  In fact, as most everyone knows
(right?) giving amino acids like DOPA, or DOPS (dihydroxyphenylserine) or
5-OH-tryptophan is generally fraught with side effects, because you end up
with excess neurotransmitters produced where they usually never are; i.e.,
where they don't belong.  The neat thing about the naturally occurring AAs
is that the enzymes required for their processing tend to be localized to
the regions where the neurotransmitters are found.

I think there is a good deal of evidence that dietary manipulations can
affect neurotransmitter levels, though it's more subtle than the phenomenon
of administering DOPA to Parkinsonian patients,


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: yazz@locus.com (Bob Yazz)
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1992 08:50:58 GMT

You said "nonsense", I cited a counterexample involving tryptophan and
drowsiness you had personally posted about, then you told me to cut the crap.  

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

| Sure.  Whatever would make you think that the first statement is at all
| incompatible with the second?

No, YOU tell US how they're compatible; you just sound like a sore loser for
having been caught in self-contradiction.

So, are you going to soften "nonsense" to "not effective enough to really
be useful", or plead placebo effect on your tryptophan drowsiness?

== Bob Yazz ==
-- 


Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child.
        -- Vice President Dan Quayle
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: dcborean@zeno16.math.UWaterloo.ca
Subject: Choline supplementation 
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:16:13 GMT


Recently I have startted taking choline supplements with Panthoic acid (Vit. B5)
to see just what sort of memory enhancing effects it created.  I've been 
increasing the dosage from about 1 gram of choline per day and 500 mg of B5
to what is recomended by Dean and Morganthaler, which is 3 grams of choline
and 1 gram of B5 (D'Panthoic acid is what I use).. There has been a definate
change in the way that my thinking process works.. Before I would have quick
recall of the things that I knew and were readily available, but what was
stored deep into a forgoten area would take much time and effort to recal.. 
However, since taking Choline, my memory has seemed to 'stabalize' somewhat...
meaning that te stuff that used to be lightning quick comes a bit slower and  
the stuff that would take me a while to remember comes quicker and easier than
before.. I can only explain it by relating it to feeling like my memory is
a viscious fluid, rather than just points of memory.. my mind seems to flow over
the problem and come up with the answer.. However, since taking the supplements
I have also been noticing a dull yet persistant headache whenever centered in 
the front of my head.  Is this a normal thing? Will it go away with time?
and Also, the experiences of the new method which my brain goes through to 
recall; is that also the norm. when taking such supplementations?

In reference to Choline vs. DMAE (DimethylAminoEthanol).. Do they act in the
same matter?  Is DMAE much more effective than Choline at lower doses?

The reason why I didn't try DMAE first (which I did want to do) is because I
can't seem to find a dealer in Canada that makes it, and when I went down
to Buffalo, I checked in a few Drug Stores, but none of them carried it..
and When I asked behind the counter at a couple of places, they looked at me
like I was from outer space.. They had no clue about what it was..
I know I can get it from a whole bunch of those mail-order places, but that
means that I'll have to get a stamp and mail something out.. and I'm faaar to
lazy to do that... Well.. Not so much anymore.. I've also noticed that if I
set my mind to getting something done, I have a far greater probability of
actually getting it done than before..

Oh yes.. I was doing a Med-line search a few days back and I came accross a
note on Deaner (which is DMAE right?) and it said that in a prolonged
study of 10 years there was overgrowth of the gums.. I'll get the reference, 
which is at home and post it later...

Any Help about the headache problem would be greatly appreciated, and if 
anyone has any anecdotes about their use of Choline, they'd be appreciated
also..
From: szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo)
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Organization: TECHbooks --- Public Access UNIX --- (503) 220-0636
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 00:59:13 GMT

>>And what about eating constituents of neurotransmitters?  (I'm thinking of
>>choline compounds here...still looking for more acetylcholine...)
>
In article <1992Sep28.160920.14528@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:
>    There is no clinical evidence of which I'm aware that eating NT
>constituents increases NT concentration in the brain.  

There is evidence that, for example, choline increases performance on
intelligence tests (see ref in my previous article).  It is expected
this is due to increase of acetylcholine at the synapse, and I'd hope
this would be tested if it hasn't already.

>The actual concentration of NTs in the brain is so small that
>precursors are easily available from the diet. 

It's likely concentration and proportions of the various amino
acids and other precursors, not just their absolute levels or
"availability", cause increase of acetylcholine at the synapse.


-- 
szabo@techbook.COM  	  Tuesday, November third  ##  Libertarian  $$  vote
Tuesday  ^^ Libertarian  --  change  **  choice && November 3rd @@Libertarian 
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: bahn@main.mndly.umn.edu (Christopher Bahn)
Subject: Sensory Deprivation
Organization: the Minnesota Daily (U of MN Student Newspaper)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:54:43 GMT

I don't know if this is the proper board forthis, but I'm a reporter for the 
college newspaper here, and I want to do a story on sensory deprivation 
tanks. If anyone knows of a place where i could go in Minneapolis to find 
one of these, please e-mail me. Thanks.
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:58:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.132217.26151@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>The current issue of Scientific American is devoted entirely to the
>human brain, the mind, and research about it. One article discusses in
>detail the theory that eating neurotransmitters or precursors of 
>neurotransmitters can enhance one's mental abilities. Their conclusion
>is that it is mostly nonsense.

Note that observing that increasing dietary precursors might lead to
higher levels of certain neurotransmitters in the brain says absolutely
nothing at all about whether this is desirable or undesirable, or whether
such a phenomenon means anything at all as far as being reflected in any
behavioral correlates.  I'm on the side feeling it's nonsense, myself.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 05:48:36 GMT

Is anyone familiar with the dynamic of pyridioxine supplementation (pro
and con) with regard to production of brain dopamine..
(I understand that Vitamin B6 completly inactivates l-dopa.)

-- 
--
Chris Beaumont   "Zero gravity will supply man with an entirely new kind of
POB 170156              erotica...and it's about time." 
SF,CA 94117                       Arthur C. Clarke
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives