From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: O'Brien's Rank [THE FINAL ANSWER]
Date: 7 Oct 92 06:40:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Oct6.095458.10934@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) writes...

> >dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) writes:
> >>The O'Brien/Transporter Chief character was created starting 
> >>with the FIRST episode of season two.  He clearly wore the rank of
> >>Lieutenant, and in his next appearance they called him as such.

     Partly agreed.  Scripts the second season and part of the third
     labeled the character whose lines Colm Meaney ended up speaking
     as TRANSPORTER CHIEF.  It wasn't until the third season, though
     exactly which episode escapes me, that scripts began labeling
     a character called O'BRIEN behind the transporter.

[...Meaney was a visable extra during the first season, seen behind
    the Con and the Tactical Console, in two completely different
    uniforms...]

>Yes, quite right.  BUT... during the first season Colm was nothing but
>a "bit player".  They found two totally unrelated parts for him to play.
>The "O'Brien/Transporter Chief" character was not even INVENTED until the
>SECOND season.  Therefore trying to call those first season appearances
>"O'Brien" is problematical at best.  Retroactively, some people try to go
>back and say "it was Miles", but you have to remember when he played those
>parts, that character did not even EXIST yet.  

     Agreed.

>Whatever the case, it does not have a major impact on the whole "rank"
>think, except if one wanted to say O'Brien was also an officer during 
>the first season.

    Again agreed.

> >Perhaps, instead of resolving it one way or another, we should ask another
> >question.  What happened, in Trek terms, to change his rank to this
> >previously-unseen combination?

>I'm sure that NOTHING happened in "trek terms".  They either screwed up,
>didn't care, or the producers decided to change something.  Trying to 
>invent crazy "explanations" for such things has always been about the
>worst of Trekkiedom IMHO...

     Agreed for the third (and I think, final) time.
     This is what happened (not made up: ask Meaney or Ron Moore
     to tell the story of O'Brien at a con sometime).  During
     the third season, it was decided Meaney's character, the
     main TRANSPORTER CHIEF, would be given a name and a backstory.
     It was stupid to keep having him appear arbitrarily; if Meaney
     was going to continue to recur with the frequency he had during
     season two and the opening part of season three, he should BE
     SOMEONE.
     O'Brien was created in these story sessions.  Details were
     later laced into some scripts: first a name; then some past
     details, more interaction with the regular cast; a first
     name; a wife; a kid; a fuller backstory...  

     The most important detail decided on during O'Brien's creation
     was that he would be an ENLISTED MAN, to offset the all-officer
     cast.  He would be down to earth Irish and ENLISTED MAN.

     We find out in "Realm of Fear" that O'Brien's run the transporter
     for 22 years.  This is entirely consistent with the excitement
     a CPO can expect during a long career in the military.

[...more deleted...]

> >We have a simple disagreement: those of us who give far more weight 
> >to spoken dialogue and scenes know O'Brien is a CPO.

>Wrong.  By FAR the clearest "spoken dialog" was when Riker called
>Miles a Lieutenant.  The vague references of Sergey hardly compare.

     Here's an impasse.  This reference comes from "Loud as a
     Whisper," doesn't it?  This is early second season: in
     the script for that episode, Riker is addressing TRANSPORTER
     CHIEF.  If Meaney had been unavailable to come in that week,
     Riker could have been talking to Gary Coleman just the same.

> >That costuming has now been CORRECTED, as of "Realm of Fear."


> >Because he is a recurring character, small costuming oversights
> >remain OVERSIGHTS.  

>Oversights??  Is that what you call his CONSISTENT rank in every appearance?
>Are you at all familiar with the term YATI??   Why is a pure *YATI* (Sergey)
>so much more important to some people than something *totally* consistent?

     YES, it is what I call an oversight, because that's just what
     it is.  I will assume you have absolutely no experience whatsoever
     working on a film or tv series.
     Let me explain wardrobe: you are measured once for your 
     costume. 
     The costume is made or bought, the proper acoutrements
     (rank pips included) are put on the costume.  The uniform
     O'Brien wears was therefore FIRST CREATED FOR 'Transporter
     Chief.'
     New Measurements are taken at the beginning of work each
     season if needed - a change in actor's size or change in
     the costume itself.
     TNG changed costumes between the second and third season.
     DURING the third season.  And Colm Meaney was wearing
     season two's wardrobe most of the third season, wasn't he?

     Maybe what you're not seeing is this: NOBODY but Star Trek
     geeks watches the show SO CLOSELY as to be irked by the 
     appearance or disappearance of a couple of buttons.

> >>O'Brien is a Lt. O'Brien wears Lt pips. Sergei Roschenko
> >>calling him a CPO was the YATI. Simple.
> >You can't explain away SPOKEN DIALOGUE as a simple mistake and 
> >embrace COSTUMING as MAJOR STATEMENT. Ridiculous.  

> >O'Brien WILL be promoted from CPO to Chief Operations Officer on DS9.

>That would be a perfect position for a Lt. Commander, 
>which would have been O'Brien's next step up in rank...

     It wouldn't be a perfect position for a Lt Commander when
     the Commanding Officer of DS9 is himself a Commander in
     rank.  
     Wake up and get over yourself - whatever the inconsistencies
     you remember from the second season, it really is CLEAR 
     O'Brien is being written as a CPO  NOW AT THIS POINT.

> >He will not be a Lt. in DS9, but a lower rank, according to Paramount, 
> >the writers, the costuming dept., and everyone else associated with
> >TNG and DS9.

>I see.  So you have spoken to ALL those people over this last week?

     Give it a rest.  If you're so inclined, go to a show and ASK
     SOMEONE on stage what the deal with O'Brien is.  As has been
     posted here numerous times, the answer will be that he is a
     CPO.

                 Shortly  thereafter, the health of  Annie
                 Blackburn still in question, the behavior
                 of Special Agent  Dale Cooper was noticed
                 __________________________to have changed.
                                              Scott Gorcey.