From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: The evil comspiracy lurking behind this "men's choice" thing...Oh GOiD!
X-To: J H WOODYATT
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:14:00 GMT
Keywords: Now On Sale At Newsstands Everywhere....THE ULTIMATE TRUTH!

bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt) writes...
JHW> beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
JHW> # peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:
JHW> # >Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org> writes:
JHW> # >
JHW> # >>the "biological prison" of nine months of pregnancy.
JHW> # >
JHW> # >It's not pregnancy that's the prison.  It's being forced to
JHW> # >stay pregnant against one's will.
JHW> #
JHW> # Like being forced to become a parent against one's will.

JHW> Oh come now, Mr. Beaver... I know what your favorite subject is;
JHW> you're like Robert Novak when it comes to Israel.  Do you mean to
JHW> imply that that this whole ``men's choice'' thing is actually aimed at
JHW> freeing men from becoming parents against their will?

Yes, actually.  But if you insist on calling us all liars and questioning the
veracity of our motives, then I'll let you in on a little secret...


It's *REALLY* a conspiracy by ABIOGENESIS 4 MORE to put you and that whole
``Abiogenesis 4 Less'' thing out of business!  There...now you have THE TRUTH.


GOiD DAMMIT, DON!  I admitted it!

Oh no.... Now what do we do?!?!?!?!?!?


/* Set Sarcasm Off */

(Yeah, like I was actually kidding, eh...)

JHW> See, here's my opinion: once the semen gets out of your body, combines
JHW> with a fertile egg and gestates in a woman's utereus, and results in a
JHW> live infant, both the mother and the father are indisputably parents.
JHW> Not until there is a live birth do either of you become parents.  The
JHW> way to avoid becoming a parent, is to simply prevent live birth.

No, there is also the option of adoption.


JHW> What it sounds like to me, Mr. Beaver, is that you know full well that
JHW> once you've conceived a fetus, there's only one way you can avoid
JHW> becoming a parent -- and that's for the woman carrying the fetus in
JHW> question to abort or miscarry.

No!  If the Freedom of Choice for Men movement is successful, the OTHER way to
legally abdicate legal parenthood will be to declare your choice during the
pre-viability stage of pregnancy.

There is *no plot* to attempt to create some evil conspiracy to force women to
have miscarriages, but even so, that *could* be a possibility from some less
scrupulous individuals, *if* RU-486 is legalised...


JHW> So which is it, Mr. Beaver?

JHW>         1)  Are you upset because you can't legally force the mother
JHW>             of your unborn child to abort?

Oh please... Strawman, err StrawPERSON or what!?  Don has NEVER said this, J.H.


JHW>         OR

JHW>         2)  Are you blowing a lot of hot air with the "becoming a
JHW>             parent against one's will" line, in an attempt to gloss
JHW>             over the reality that you are of the opinion that you
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JHW>             should have no legal responsibility to father your
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JHW>             unwanted *born* children?
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Neither!  Besides which, there has been *no* attempt to gloss over *anything* -
We feel that we have the FREEDOM OF CHOICE to decide during pregnancy, if we
are to be forced to become parents.  Besides which, couldn't I just question
*your* motives and say "All you pro-choice people are just trying to weasel
out of being parents by eliminating your responsibilities by eliminating the
child, err 'foetus'"?


JHW> You're invited to try to weasel out by providing a third alternative,
JHW> but I think it would be wiser simply to dodge the question altogether.

Alternative 3 - Declare the wish to not have rights or responsibilities for
the child, during the pre-viability months of pregnancy, as above.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Cthulhu for President in '92 - Why vote for the _lesser_ of two evils?"
                                                          - Bronis Vidugiris
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