From: fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: Nuskin
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:00:08 GMT
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.1 PL6]

Bill Glazier (bglazier@buffalo.asd.sgi.com) wrote:
> This is the same old story the other guy used.  "Oh, never mind the fact
> there are a few bad apples in the industry (or company as the case may be) -
> we're better than bad, bad Corporate America."  More psychobabble and
> rationalization, nicely tailored to an audience that wants to dream -
> wants to believe.  

Oh, baloney, Bill.  You're using your own flavor of psycobabble.  You said,
and I quote,
 "Nu Skin was, and probably still is, another Utah based ripoff/scam sponsored
  by get-rich-quick artists.  They'll say anything to get your money."

..and then you claim you're not bad-mouthing MLMs,

That's slandering Nu Skin in particular, and implying any Utah-based MLM
(and most likely any MLM) is a ripoff.  Anthony and I argued those points
specifically.  Yes, there are bad apples in almost any basket.  There are
also good ones.  Don't paint everyone in a category with the same accusation.
As I've said before, that's little better than simple bigotry.  Look at
the specifics and judge based on individual facts.

And, on a slightly different tack -- what's WRONG with dreaming, Bill?
Dreams are what help people rise above the muck of their everyday existence.
SOME people work with those dreams and make them reality.  Some don't.
But the fact that some can't or won't do what it takes to achieve their
dreams does NOT make dreaming, nor encouraging people to dream, a bad thing.
(Now if you tell someone they should quit their job because your MLM will
allow them to achieve their dream, you're definitely scum.  But if you
encourage someone to dream, and help them to get there, and let them decide
what to do with their life once they're there, I'd say you've done them
a big favor.  Even if they don't achieve their wildest dreams, if you
just help them lift their head and achieve more than they did before,
you've still enriched their lives.)

> Perhaps [suing] is the only way to scare off people like me with opinions
> that disagree...  HP is a great company.

I agree, HP is.  And I'd bet you'd get a call from HP's lawyers if you
started publishing comments like "ripoff/scam sponsored by get-rich-quick
artists" about HP.  I've used the word "slander" twice now for good reason.

Let's take an example that's a little closer to home.  What would Bill Gates
do if you called Microsoft a "ripoff/scam...etc"?  But would you deny
he got richer, quicker, than ANY MLM founder in history?  Would you deny
that lots of people joined his company with dreams of growing with and
growing rich with the company, but couldn't cut the mustard?  Would you
deny that lots of them "dropped out" because of this?  There are more
similarities than you seem to be willing to acknowledge.

> Clearly disprove any of the above statements.  It is NOT an across the
> board condemnation of every and any MLM.  It is a statement regarding the
> types of people who are most often the owners/managers of these outfits.  

And Anthony and I specifically addressed the owners/managers of two companies
we know about which don't fit your mold.  I don't argue that some do.

> Read my original post again.  I don't believe Corporate America has a drop out
> rate of 90%+.  MLM does.  

Somebody drawing a weekly salary for "showing up" at work is hardly comparable
to someone trying to build an organization in MLM.  The people going into it
know damn well they don't have a guaranteed paycheck, unless they EARN it.
And some decide it's not for them.  I see no sin in that.

Compare MLM "entrepreneurs" (and please let's not get into a semantic battle
over that) to someone starting his own "traditional" business, and you'll
find the dropout rate is pretty comparable.  Both have to build their income
from scratch.  The biggest difference is, the people who start traditional 
businesses tend to lose a HELL of a lot more money when they "drop out".

> I'm kind of shocked that someone from Berkeley would be so supportive of
> these kinds of ventures.  The possible explanations are 1) you are a paid
> spokesperson for a company, 2) you intend to finance your college/graduate
> education via MLM, or 3) Berkeley's student body population has changed more
> than I imagined. 

Prepare to be shocked again.  I happen to know Anthony, and your assumptions
are so totally off-base as to be laughable.  In respect for Anthony's privacy 
I won't elaborate over the net.

Gary