From: coleve@cc.uvcc.edu
Subject: Re: Packet Networks today and tommorrow
Organization: Utah Valley Community College
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:01:13 GMT

In article <438@arrl.org>, jbloom@arrl.org (Jon Bloom) writes:
> In rec.radio.amateur.packet, gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug18.181839.26451@cs.yale.edu> ewing-martin@CS.YALE.EDU (Martin Ewing) writes:
>>>In article <1992Aug18.121013.27822@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes:
>>>...
>>>>The Internet is *not* free. Our use of it is parasitic and subject
>>>>to the whims of government and corporate sponsors. Ham satellites...
>>>
>>>Yes, but universities are effectively in the same boat.  I think
>>>it's fairly safe to piggyback on university network access. ...
>>
>>Al Gore, yes *that* Al Gore, is pushing a bill to commercialize the 
>>networks we are now using for free. When we start receiving a monthly 
>>bill based on bits/buck, using the landline networks is going to look 
>>a lot less attractive. I just want people to keep their options open. 
>>If we lock ourselves into the landlines for long haul packet, we may
>>regret it later.
> 
> Some of us are already paying for Internet service.  And the people
> we get it from (PSI) don't allow us carry third-party traffic.  (And
> you thought hams were the only ones with third-party traffic
> restrictions!)  If/when the government gets out of the business
> of subsidizing the Internet, you can expect that sort of thing to be
> the rule rather than the exception.  I agree with Gary: go ahead and
> make use of the Internet, but don't let's stop trying to build our
> own, independent network.

ER, UMMM, (cough) As the administrator of a domain in the Internet
I may have some news to help this out.

The NSF net has always been scheduled to become a commercial network.
Federal funding is backing off by design so that the network will be self
supporting after a time.

Our local network ("local" meaning restricted to this state) is a part of
WESTNET.  WESTNET charges $5000 per year for an industrial customer with a
56Kbaud feed. As soon as anyone in the state coughs up a $5000 fee, WESTNET will
become officially a commercial network, no longer subject to "research network"
rules for Utah originated traffic.(We are hunting for an angel with $5K now.) 
Note that the fee is annual, not traffic based.  There are no plans I know of
to do volume billing on Internet.  Once you pay the connection fee, that's it.

So internet fees are not a problem, But, as has been pointed out, Wireline
networks is the wrong answer for ham radio for many other reasons.

I want to have the anti-commercial rules changed for amateur radio.
Until "hams" start carrying some volume traffic, there will be no need
for anything better than 300 buad E-Mail.  Put NetNews on the air and
watch those 9600 baud and faster modems start showing up...  Especially if
I can get my neighborhood rural school to buy the modems so that I can provide
them with a network feed.  (Their modem, my license.  I can't be paid to run
the radio, but nothing says I have to OWN it, just CONTROL it.  Schools have
been buying ham stations for years for the benefit of thier students.  This is
just another benefit for the students, having a netnews feed.)

The opportunity for service, as well as emergency communications would be
amazing.  (Imagine if Mackay, Idaho, had had a 56K radio link when the
earthquake hit in 84...)  Just tie the radio link to the school network and
use every machine in the lab to type or recieve emergency traffic.  MAYBE
THE TRAFFIC WILL EVENTUALLY GET AWAY FROM THE OLD BAUDOT TELETYPE LOOK X AT
LEAST WE CAN HOPE SO X I AM ALMOST ASHAMED TO PASS A MESSAGE IN THE OLD NTS
FORMAT X IT LOOKS LIKE A LEFTOVER FROM THE GAY 90S X SINCERLY YOURS

There has to be a perceived need before hams will advance the state of the 
art.  If the rules prevent the state of the art being advanced, it's time
to change the rules.  At 300 baud I can filter all messages for commercial
content (perhaps).  At 9600, no way.  Packetized voice at 1200 baud is a joke.
at 9600, with speach compression, it's doable.  (I have watched pro basketball
on a 168Kbaud circuit and could follow Karl Malone's dunks.) 

Now if someone would write a one-to-many feed algorithm for netnews....

-- Vern Cole -- Systems Manager -- Utah Valley Community College --
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.packet