HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: deb5@ellis.uchicago.edu (Daniel von Brighoff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Are there major ethnic divisions inside China?
Keywords: Ethnic, conflict, democracy
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:00:48 GMT
Reply-To: deb5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations


	I think the great difference between China and the USSR or 
Yugoslavia in this context is the existence of the so-called "Great
Tradition" which dominates Chinese society.  This refers to a set of
ideals embodied by the Chinese Classics, especially the Confucian ones.
Under this roof, local customs are easily integrated and the people can
identify themselves with the dominate Han culture.
	This tradition is so strong that the Chinese have had to do
less imposing of their culture than many other peoples.  Neighboring
groups voluntarily assimlate in a fashion unlike anywhere else i've
seen (Tibet and Vietnam being conspicuous exception to this assimilation).
	The indentification is so strong that when the Communists began
classifying certain citizens as "minorities" and taking special provisions
to preserve their culture, many people fought the classification, 
especially among China's largest minority, the southern Zhuang.  In 
addition, out of millions of people classified as "Manchu," only a few
thousand can actually speak the language and it will probably be dead before 
i am.  The majority are indistinguishable from their Han neighbors.
	Compare this to the Ex-USSR where any minority with two speakers
is setting up a school and claiming sovereignty over their bit of earth.
I can't imagine anyone but the Yi or the Tibetans doing that in China
(maybe the Mongols?  The Turks?  Comments please!)



-- 
	Daniel "Da" von Brighoff (deb5@midway.uchicago.edu)  /\
	951 E. 54th Place				    /__\
	Chicago, IL  60637				   /____\
							  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha)
Subject: Seoul <--> Beijing
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:24:01 GMT

Does anybody know if and when there will be direct flights between
Seoul and Beijing and on what airlines, or is it way too early to
be asking such a question?


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan)
Subject: Re: "Banana"'s sexuality and social status
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:26:28 GMT

In article <65500074@acf3.NYU.EDU> yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , ) writes:
>Dave writes:
>>I think one reason why there are more White men/Asian women marriage
>>than Asian men/White women marriage is because Asian (at least Chinese)
>>men tend to be more nationist than Asian women.
>
>>What do you think?
>
>Partialy correct, Chinese as a whole is a loser, soeciaty requires 
>male stand firmly by himself, while women can submit themself to 
>the aggressor.
>
That was what happened when Princess Weng Chen married the King of Tibet
in Tang Dynasity.
>
>Ze  Yang

Tingli Pan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
Subject: Re: Looking for Xiang Youqin from HUST
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:43:00 GMT

In article <92240.165655CHEN@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK>, CHEN@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK writes...
>Please response as soon as possible if you can read this note.

That is all I read!!

As well as my response!!!

From: xuan@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Xiaohua Xuan)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:41:39 GMT
Subject: Is there an airfair reduction to China?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china

There are several articles on the airfair reduction to china recently, but
there seems no flight from San Francisco to Shanghai which costs less $1000
in the end of September if one wants to stay more than a month. Does anyone
have some recommendation?
Thank you very much. 

Xiaohua Xuan ( xuan@sr.hp.com)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:24616 soc.culture.hongkong:10398 soc.culture.taiwan:12770
From: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Drew)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Let me tell you what CHINA needs NOW.
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:03:38 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <92245.130134ASHZJ@ASUACAD.BITNET> ASHZJ@ASUACAD.BITNET writes:
>
>For all of us CSS who ever lived in the Chinese society (not just schools), we
>know that whatever you contribute to the society (if ever possible) is either
>wasted by the government or taken into the pockets of those CCP officials.
>
>Obviously, China now needs POLITICINAS, not SCIENTISTS OR ENGINEERS.

I don't know if politicians is the right word.  It has a negative connotation
attached to it.  Undoubtedly, Dr. Sun Yet Sen was a politician.  And I think
China needs someone like him.  Meanwhile, Yuan Sai Hoi was also a politician.
I don't think any of us will desire this kind.

Andrew
-- 
+-----------   @}-'--   -----------+  "To Serve, To Strive and Not to Yield"
|      Lee, On-Lit Andrew          |               - Motto of Outward Bound 
|                                  | 
|  email: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  "Your disability is your opportunity"
|  University of Texas at Austin   |               - Kurt Hahn,  
+----------------------------------+                 Founder of Outward Bound 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: esh1@cec2.wustl.edu (Edmond Siu-kei Hui)
Subject: Re: What About Tibet?
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:52:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.053313.10212@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pcalvert@nyx.cs.du.edu (P. Calvert) writes:
>
>
>yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , ) wrote:
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^>>Actually, both statement are true, Dalai Lama and most his followers
So were those christians who believed Jesus refused to punish the
Roman with storm. Do you know how many people they killed in the 
"Dark age". Whether Dalai is one of the salves holders is still a
a question for me?


>>Were slave holder, they kill their slaves and use their slave's blood 
> 
>This lie is so ridiculous it's pathetic.  You would have us believe that
>THe Dalai Lama, a man who opposes killing (it is completely against
>Buddha Dharma), has killed people and used their blood as a sacrifice?


a
A
>You insult our intelligence.
> 
>P.S.  Please don't take this personally. I'm not calling you a liar since
>you probably believe this fiction created by your government.
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Sources on Tibet
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:08:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:

>	I especially welcome contributions from the following netters:

>	Yang Ze
>	Shi Chunde
>	Brian Lin

>	Thanks a lot. I'll be glad to forward a copy of the list to anyone
>who asks for it.

>Mark Libucha (mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)

Hello, Mr. Libucha, I am so glad that you put my name at 
the first place (I guess that's because my stringent arguments win
your trust:-)), but I am a little busy now, I cann't give 
you much help on this matter. Why don't we play something easier 
for you, your e-mail address remainds me of one speech 
made by Abraham Lincoln(Abraham Lincoln is Ex president of USA-in case
you don't know this :-)), 
if you can give me satisfactary answers about this speech, I might
give you some advise on your project. 
First, there are two versions of the speech (appr.):
 "...At what point then shall we expect approch of danger? Shall
we expect some transatlantic millitary giant to step the
ocean and crush us at a blow? Never, all the armies of Europe,
Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the Earth in their
military chest
and a Bonarpart as a commander, could not by force take a drink
from the OHIO river or set a track on the Blue Ridge , in a
trial of a thouscand years. If destruction ever reach us, it must spring
up amongst us, we must be its author and finisher, as a 
country of free men, we must live through all time or die by suicide..."
another version:
 "..Whence shall we expect approch of danger? Shall we assume
some millitary giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow?
Never, all the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, could
not by force take a drink from the OHIO river, or set a track
on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years, if destruction be
our lot, we must be its author and finisher, as a nation
of free men, we must live for ever, or die by suicide..."

(Please ignore misspelling, that is intentionally left for Mr. Carl, 
I am sure every time he find a misspelling or grammar error, he
is excited.:-) )

My questions:
1) Which is the original version (by Abraham Lincoln).
2) At what year Abraham Lincoln made the speech?
(Please don't post your answers before you have more that two
answers.)
If you cannot give me a satisfactory answer, I would say "
This guy is BULLSHIT, even don't know American History,
why bother to teach him our Chinese matter."
By the way, are you sure you are not related to CIT at all?
I am really concerned about this. (My taiwanese friends' 
club once visited by CIA, CIA offered help to them, I really
cannot afford this).
Ze Yang.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:24225 soc.culture.asian.american:8631
From: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Calling Dr. Nordstrom ...)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Banana"'s sexuality and social status
Date: 28 Aug 1992 18:29:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: thedarktower.corp.sun.com


	cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) :
	> Just a piece of reality for "bananas" or "bananas_about_to_be", 
	> joy? sad? 

Ridiculous. Pathetic. 


	Melinda
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: yawei@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (~{QG9p~})
Subject: Re: The Chinese Dream for That Small Little Thing: A Vote.
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 01:19:46 GMT

In article <27AUG199209300434@phobos.ucc.umass.edu> s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:
>>And don't forget those who loudly ask you sacrifice for the common good
>>are usually not doing it themselves. 

>Was that so bad to sacrifice onceself for a common good? The spirit of
>sacrifice was not just from Communism, but also from Confucianism and 
>Christianity. I do not know about Muslim.

Not bad at all. In fact it is mighty respectable if one chooses to
sacrifice himself for some real common good. Note that the phrase
I used was that we "too frequently expect" others to sacrifice, to
such an extent that it is becoming intrusive and repressive. The
question Jialin raised about those who expect others to sacrifice
but are not prepared to do it themselves is also a concern.
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Sources on Tibet
Date: 31 Aug 92 03:47:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

Some netter just send e-mail to me that on his system he can see
as many as 14 copies of my first response, sorry for that, that's
because of our system's problem, I just used the command to corect
my article, I didn't expect it apperaed 14 times on the net.


Ze Yang
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong
From: xiong@fzi.de (Xiong Xun)
Subject: Re: Olympic Swimming Gold Medalist ZHUANG Yong To Marry in Hong Kong
Reply-To: xiong@fzi.de
Organization: Forschungszentrum Informatik (FZI), Karlsruhe, Germany
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 08:39:56 GMT

Zhuang Yong has won great honour for our country and what have you guy done for 
the country? You merely spreaded rumours and slanders! Doesn't she deserve a 
marrige of her own selection? A group of gossipmongers! I'm so sad of you!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me Mann)
Subject: Re: Anonymous mail
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 05:43:29 GMT

In article <65500069@acf3.NYU.EDU> hanzheng@acf3.NYU.EDU (James Han,Meyer 827,998-7758,(212)260-4530) writes:
>/* acf3:soc.culture.china / DengXPing@beijing.china.etc /  2:48 pm  Aug 30, 1992 */
>No, I'm not from UCI.
>
>DXP
>/* ---------- */
>
>Let me take a shot. Did you originate the messages from NNTP host 
>ucivax!gateway ( Univ. of California at Irvine ) ?  If this host 
>has been configurated to be able to trace fake e-mails, then SA
>on this computer can trace you furthur...  Or you are SA on this
>node.
>
>Take it easy!

I agree with you here James.  It is very easy to trace the
nntp-posting-host. All you need is just to pick up the same article
from several different sites that it claim to have passed across the
country and you can see how it was transported.  With the proper
network tools it is easy enough to determine if the path in the header
is reasonable and one can the isolate the originating host. 
Most mail servers and news servers these days have logging so it
is again possible to trace the real location where the message
was written... To cut it short try something criminal and 
you will find the FBI at your door step 8) 

Me Mann



Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Are there major ethnic divisions inside China?
Keywords: Ethnic, conflict, democracy
Date: 3 Sep 92 23:59:16 GMT
Organization: Boston University

In article <1992Sep3.195213.2773@u.washington.edu> ski@milton.u.washington.edu (Jeff Wasierski) writes:
>(deleted)
>My question is:  If China were to make a dramatic course change toward a more
<free, democratic state,

I hope it would not be so dramatic.

< do there exist ethnic divisions within the country
>strong enough to create the kind of conflict portions of the former USSR and 
>Yugoslavia are experiencing?

The danger is there. You see, the ideal status of a multi-ethnic country will
be "DaTong" (Great Harmonic), or in other word "melting pot", both China and
USA are looking forward to such status.

But it seems to me USA has at least reached the status of "Salad", while China
is still in status of "Mosaic" -- different ethinic people are associated with
certain regions. That is why the danger is there.

However, with the development of free market economy, more population movement
have occured in recent years. Hopefully, we may reach a "Salad" status in a few
decads. At that moment, at least civil wars can be avoided even no strong
central control.

Some human right activists on this net seems against population movement between
diferent Mosaic tiles, probably because of concerning culture identities. But in
Salad status, culture identities can still be reserved. I can imagine BJ has
a Tibet city around YongHe Palace, an Uigur city ....

I hope China will take the way from Mosaic to Salad to Melting Pot.
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: who@guess.guess.forever.etc
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Anonymous post!
Keywords: who am I?
Date: 29 Aug 92 01:15:45 GMT
Followup-To: (no precedent yet)
Distribution: usa
Organization: just keep guessing
Originator: who@guess.guess.forever.etc

In article <1992Aug28.052906.28663@julian.uwo.ca>, stong@irus.rri.uwo.ca (Shidong Tong) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug28.030429.16193@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> 
|> who@guess.guess.forever.etc writes:
|> > 
|> > Article 76041 of soc.culture.china:
|> > Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ukma!cs.widener.edu!dsinc!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!okeeffe.cc.rochester.edu!yuta
|> > From: who@guess.guess.forever.etc
|> > Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
|> > Subject: Anonymous post!
|> > Summary: this catches you anyway ;-)
|> > Keywords: who am I?
|> > Message-ID: <1992Aug28.030429.16193@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>
|> > ^^^^^^^^^^                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> > Date: 28 Aug 92 03:04:29 GMT
|> > Sender: news@galileo.cc.rochester.edu
|> > Followup-To: (no precedent yet)
|> > Distribution: usa
|> > Organization: just keep guessing
|> > Lines: 3
|> > Originator: yuta@okeeffe.cc.rochester.edu
|> > ^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> > Nntp-Posting-Host: Tough to Figure out!
|> > 
|> > Who says anonymous posting is not possible. Can you figure out the
|> > originator of this post? Send me a request and I will tell you how!
|> > 					            A.P.
|> > 
|> > 
|> 
|> 	try finger yuta@okeeffe.cc.rochester.edu ...
|> 


This guy is not necessarily the real pranker, maybe a victim. 

BTW, I'm not the original who@guess.guess.forever.etc. :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: JIA HAO <LZ956C@gwuvm.gwu.edu>
Subject:      NEWS
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 03:33:16 GMT

From JIA Hao <LZ956C@GWUVM.BITNET> (Sept. 1, 1992)
SYMPOSIUM ON CHINESE CULTURE TO BE HELD IN WASHINGTON D.C.

     Sponsored by the Washington Center for China Studies (WCCS),
Sino-American Cultural Society (SACS), and the George Washington
University, a symposium on "the Character and Current State of
Chinese Culture" will be held at the Marvin Center Theater of the
George Washington University (800 21 St. NW, Washington D.C.) on
September 12, 1992 (Saturday, 9:00 AM-5:30 PM).

     The primary speakers of the symposium will be three Chinese and
American leading scholars in the field: Prof. LI Zi-hou from the
Institute of Philosophy at Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (emerged
in the late 1970s as "a mentor of intellectual enlightenment" in China,
Prof. LI is going to make this his first speech to a large audience
in the American capital city since he came abroad early this
year), Prof. Benjamin I. Schwartz from Harvard University, and
Prof. LIN Yu-sheng from University of Wisconsin-Madison. The
titles of their presentation will be "Pragmatic Rationality and
Pleasure-Oriented Culture" (LI Zi-hou), "'Culture' and
'Modernity': the Need for An Ongoing Critique" (Benjamin I.
Schwartz), and "The Political Implications of Chinese Cosmology"
(LIN Yu-sheng). By inviting these leading scholars to speak and
discuss, the symposium is designed not only to engage an inter-
cultural dialogue among academia but also to provide the general
public a unique forum to review the correlation between the
cultural legacy and the social changes of modern China.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: anw1@cec2.wustl.edu (Aaron Wong)
Subject: Re: Golden age of China?
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:19:07 GMT

In article <92Aug19.100156edt.108@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu) writes:
>
>it is not groundless speculation.  There is no Yuan Dynasty records
>of such a person.  Historians are arguing about whether Marco Polo
>really visited China or not.  
>

Hey, maybe the records are written in Mongolian. It's quite imaginable that
most Chinese historians didn't bother to learn that language, given the 
attitudes towards foreigners back then. :>

NGOK

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: What Should We Do To Help Shen Tong?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:00:55 GMT


Is Shen Tong guilty? I think he is not. How about you?

How to explain his arrest? What can we do to help him?

If Shen Tong is guilty for organizing Democratic Fund
in Beijing and that is guilty, what about LYH in American?
They are serving the communist government to do propaganda
too. Should LYH leaders be arrested because of that?

It casts a real doubt about the Chinese government on their
recent leniency gesture to the oversea Chinese students
and community. 

Can we have some discussion about the difference between
Shen Tong's activity and the activities of LYH in American.
We must have some logical and equal basis in order to justify
that help to Shen Tong is legitimate. In the meanwhile,
if Shen Tong is still held, we can lobby the local community
to revenge by "arresting" these LYH leaders.

If LYH leaders believe they have their right to do what
they want to do in America, they should also help to rescue
Shen Tong and others.

Xiao Li


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang)
Subject: Re: Hello from news reader in China
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 07:22:24 GMT

In article <9224415.24361@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:
>
>1/4 of China's Nukes are in Xi Zang.  For the sake of security, (especially
>when India and Pakistan have Nukes) it's better to absorb Xi Zang into
>an integral, inseperable part of China.

It cannot be considered as a reason if it has nothing to do with the
warefare of the local people living in Tibet.  Think about this, if
the electricity commission likes to build a Nuclear power plant next to
your house, or simply in Melbourne, for the cheap electricity and better
economical competetion which might save Australia from ression(if it is
true in this way, I assume), WILL YOU ACCEPT IT.

>
>Also, we know from Chinese History that many Civilizations (Barbarians)
>have been assimilated into the Hans culture, in particularly the Manchus
>and the Mongols, I don't see a problem with Zang.
>

They like to be assimilated only if they wish to do so.  If they don't
wish to do so now, it is considered to be ugly to force them to do it.


>I think it's fair to re-claim the teritories which are rightfully
>China's.  Outer Mongolia was a part of China until the Russians invaded,
>and forced it to declare independance.  And China, being a "Little
>Brother" of USSR, agreed to it... mainly because of loss of War.
>I wonder what will happen if UK decided to recognize HKG independance?
>It would be the same.  It is a part of China until all the "unequal"
>treaties signed after unjustified Wars.
>

Ask anyone from Monolia if they are pleased or willing to go back to
China.  If they are, they will.  If they are not, they won't.  That has
nothing to do with the claim.  The government in Taiwan also claims
mainland China belongs to the Republic of China because they lost it in
1949.  Tell me, will it work.

>I'm glad, you don't even live here!  :-)
>

If you are not happy with the country you live in, avoid it.
Have a nice day, mate.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china