HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Date: 10 Oct 92 23:10:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Oct10.231058.8314
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Oct10.070917.1965@adobe.com> asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal) writes:

[a bunch of stuff that I agree with, only he says it much more
eloquently than I can. And, no one can say "Oh, Paul is just too young
to understand".]

>George Bush is not an icon.

George Bush is an icon of death. He is the icon of the government
inaction on AIDS, he is the icon of the bombing of hundreds of
thousands of Iraqis.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                                    D is for lots of things
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 04:14:22 GMT

In article <67337@cup.portal.com> Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling) 
writes:
>
>Little Italy is being hailed as "great Italian"?  My taste buds all
>just fainted dead away.

I don't think it claims to be high cuisine.  It's sort of peasant or
middle-class-during-a-recession cuisine.  I wouldn't say that the food is 
as refined as at Stars, and I wouldn't compare it with Panos.  Little Italy 
has comfort food at reasonable prices (reasonable for Noe Valley, anyway).
I eat there more often than I eat at Panos because it's not as stressful as
Panos (on the other hand, I eat at Stars Cafe more often than I eat at
Panos and Little Italy put together).

 
-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: The Unwritten Law
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:45:51 GMT

jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:

>In article <1992Oct12.185601.16416@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>>Either you have a just and loving God who has no problem with
>>>men loving men and women loving women, or you have an unjust God.
>>
>>Then, some people react to this cognitive dissonance with an "aha!"
>>and realize the the whole line they've been fed is a crock of
>>silliness, say their final fuck-yous to their co-religionist
>>tormentors, and get on with their lives free at last of all
>>that nonsense.

>Alas, if only it were that easy.

It's no wonder it's hard to disregard what you've been taught your whole
life; even those things which conflict with your own personal experience.

It's odd that I should find this thread this week.  My 'activity' for
NCOD was to tell my mother about my relationship with my partner.

I came out to her about five years ago, while I was getting out of an
unhappy marriage.  Although she has a M.S. in clinical psycology,
she was sure I was "going through a stage" and she really didn't want
to talk about it.

Until Sunday, I pretty much honored her wish.  During a phone conversation,
I told her that I considered my "boyfriend" and his kids to be my family,
and that I was happier now than I have ever been.  She raised concerns
about the kids "learning to be gay" and my relationship with them taking
time from my "real family" (her) and other such trash before she came to
the root of the problem:  she thought it was a sin.

I gave up trying to reason with her after two hours when I realized that
there was no way she would change her mind.  The scariest part was the
knowledge that probably a majority of people would agree with her.

Anyway, back to the subject.  I've found that I didn't have to give up
my most basic 'beliefs', just the clutter that fundies concentrate on.
IMHO, most 'religion' is man-made (no, that's not sexist - most
religious dogma has been determined by men); and frankly, I'm more 
qualified to determine the state of my soul than anyone who claims to
be an expert.

And besides, *my* family is much more functional than my mother's ever was!

-jeff [who is quickly getting over the funk he was feeling Sunday night.]
From: drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Anagram program
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:23:44 GMT
Reply-To: drp@dosbears.uucp
Organization: DosBears

In article <manz.719109051@ee.ualberta.ca> manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz) writes:
>In <1468@dosbears> drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Oct13.120512.8153@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>>
>>>I['ve] got Digital Webster on *this* machine ...
>
>>BTW, the OED 2nd edition is out on CD-ROM now.  It's supposed
>>to have very good search procedures, in addition to all the words
>>and definitions of the printed version. Of course, it costs $895....
>
>Which is, I believe, about half the cost of the 12 volume hardcopy.

Closer to a third. I wonder if the previous cd-rom (which also had
a list price of $895) will be selling at a discount, or if they're
all gone.

--
         David R. Preston   drp@dosbears.uucp dosbears@netcom.com
              Information gladly given but safety requires
               the avoidance of unnecessary conversation.
            D. R. Preston 584 Castro St. #614 SF CA 94114 USA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Joan-Rhymes (was Re: Sean)
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: phonemic split in progress?
Organization: earnestly practicing faggots
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 14:17:07 GMT

several motssers report having a slightly different vowel in BLOWN
than in JOAN, SEWN, etc.  jack hamilton suggests that the vowel
in BLOWN is a bit more rounded.  [just trying to get a linguist hot,
jack?]  discarding the possibility that this rounding is iconic -
making the vowel in BLOW look more like you're blowing - and assuming
that the intuitions that these vowels *are* different for some
speakers, we have a linguistically interesting situation here.

it's been suggested for some time that sound changes at least
sometimes spread through the relevant vocabulary items one group at a
time, rather than hitting them all at once.  there is a relevant sound
change affecting the O vowel in american english, but i don't know
which variants occur in which words for jack (and others who have this
difference).  probably BLOWN can have either variant in context, but
has just one when pronounced in isolation, in a list; the two
pronunciations will then count as "the same sound" for the purposes of
rhyming, even though they're physically different.  they're versions
of a single *phoneme*, as we linguists say.  (we have to say something
technical here.  otherwise we'll be saying that the sounds are
different and also that they are the same; the point is that actual
sounds get *used* differently in different dialects and languages, and
we need a word for collections of sounds that count as the same for
speakers of a particular dialect or language.)

usually sound changes spread eventually to the whole relevant
vocabulary, but sometimes they get hung up partway, and contrasts
arise.  for some philadelphia speakers, CAN `be able' and CAN `metal
container' have different vowels, only the latter having been affected
by a shift, and they don't count as the same for the purposes of
rhyming.  one phoneme has split into two.

maybe this will happen with BLOWN versus JOAN, and they will no longer
count as rhymes.  maybe the shift will eventually hit all the relevant
words.

aside from wanting to know the actual phonetic details, i'd also
want to know which words have which vowels.  are GROWN, THROWN, and
SHOWN like BLOWN, so that GROWN and GROAN in isolation are different,
and THROWN and THRONE, and SHOWN and SHONE?  does the "more rounded"
vowel occur only in past participles of verbs ending with the vowel
O?  only in high-frequency verbs?  are ROSE and ROWS phonetically
identical?  ROAD and ROWED?  i could go on like this for hours...

motss-relevance:  sex manuals generally recommend against rounding
the lips when blowing, since this tends to bring the teeth together,
increasing the chances of nasty scrapes.

arnold


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:13:57 GMT

Speaking of Italian food, my Italian-American lover from New York (not all at  
once) is trying to make a guinea out of me.  He also teaches me all kinds of  
nasty Yiddish words ... well, anyway, does anyone know any good Italian  
restaurants in and around D.C.?  I know I live here, but I can't afford to know  
such things ... *smile*

Donald - Nigger Stompin' African
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:45:59 GMT

You don't have to have a recognizable *look* in order to be an icon, do
you? Poetic styles, painting styles, musical styles; all of these can
be recognizable, and be so familiar and borrowed-from in modern culture
that even if we don't know what/who exactly they're from we recognize
them as hearkening back to whatever (but then that about explains iconism
in general, don't it?).

John, weilding the language like... like... like a big floppy roll of
insulation or something

(a thought: With sampling becoming an accepted form of creating music,
can certain frequently-used samples become iconic? The James Brown
Heh. WHOO!. Heh. WHOO!. comes to mind.)

--
John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

			Dark. Handsome. 6 feet tall.
		  31 flavors? I believe he's got 'em all!
From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 13 Oct 1992 17:54:12 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

In article 3869@wam.umd.edu, lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
>I thought I would just share this with you ...
>
>
>} You're light skinned because your great great grandmother probably
>} asked her master to make her feel good!
>
>Boys and Girls, this problem is very real.
>
>Donald - Nigger Stompin' African!


This is disgusting and horrible!  I am surprised to see this on motss.  However, you 
seem equally willing to fight me as you do him.  I feel you painting us with the same 
brush.  If you still see us in the same category, there is really nothing further for
me to say to you.

Howard

---
========================================================================
Howard I. Solomon			|ELECTION '92
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|Hold your nose and vote for Bill!
his@east.sun.com			|
=========================================================================

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 07:06:46 GMT

In article <67286@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>One of the Bears who helps put on the Bear Hug parties in SF
>showed up at one of them some time back in a castoff suit with
>the seams appropriately weakened; one of the more interesting
>not-directly-sexual parts of that evening was helping a couple
>other bears literally rip the suit, dress shirt, and underwear
>off his fuzzy body.  ;-{)##]

Well, one thing you have to say for Rafael is that he _commanded respect_
in that suit.  And that was no ordinary suit, that was from the Martha
Stewart collection at K Mart, by way of St Vincent de Paul.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ann Lander's YUCK!
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:36:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: scd.Bw6EDE.HJI
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5

Jess Anderson (anderson@macc.wisc.edu) wrote:
 
> To supply context, the letter to Ann Landers was from a gay
> man who didn't like drag queens, etc.  
> 
> So I speculated that perhaps the key to the solution
> of bringing "straight-acting" LGB people into the
> fold was feminism, because ...
> 
> >In article <1992Oct13.002452.7442@macc.wisc.edu>
> >anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> 
> >>I really think the main thing is feminism.  These boys hate
> >>women with a *real* passion.  
------------
I've been reading a book recently entitled, _Homophobia, A Weapon OF
Sexism_, buy Suzanne Pharr.  I think it deals with the roots of this
misogyny really clearly and simply.

It's a collection of about 6 essays which deal with homophobia and 
how it derives from sexism, and touches on racism and its parallel
development from white male privilege.
 
It may be old news around here, since it was published a couple years
ago, but I haven't heard it mentioned, and I think it's worth reading.
 
Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 10:59:06 GMT


In article <1992Oct14.035806.19477@athena.mit.edu>
max@athena.mit.edu (Max Meredith Vasilatos) writes:

>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>"N'est-ce pas?" is literary language, 

>Nope, it's *French*.  

C'est ca, ma chouette!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Joan-Rhymes (was Re: Sean)
Date: 11 Oct 92 00:29:57 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <sorethumb@kaa.gr.osf.org>,
emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> >I would call all of these *exact* rhymes:
> >loan; Joan; shone; tone; roan (a reddish horse); sewn
> 
> They all rhyme for me too, except shone, and I think my pronunciation
> would not be too far from yours.  The 1983 Chambers Dictionary,
> published in Scotland, agrees with me though: ...

Oh, poor thing, you're not still struggling with that old tome, are you?
The 1983 edition is soo passe', I can't relate to it *at all*.
And I don't want to hear any crap about
how the 1972 edition is an icon or anything.
The *1988* edition is the best book ever printed,
beside which all others are pale imitations.

[Until the 1993 edition comes out, that is...]
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*conche* v.t. to knead and mix (chocolate) during manufacture"
-- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 01:57:42 GMT


In article <1992Oct11.223503.27820@seq.uncwil.edu>
drollin@seq.uncwil.edu (David A.  Rollins) writes:

>ST402341@brownvm.brown.edu (Gary Byma) writes:

Apologies to Gary Byma.  In another posting I said it was
Gary Klein who had responded.  I misremembered the name.
I'd like to think about David Rollins's remarks a little
longer, though I do want him to be up-front about "fag
rhetoric."

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 92 20:51:27 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <mattm-061092094737@mcmelmon.apple.com> <1992Oct6.205433.20980@spdcc.com>
  <1992Oct8.150543.19581@panix.com>

r l reid writes:
>I do have one question on men's suits.  Why are they all made of wool?
>Wool makes me itch and sneeze.  I can't be the only person this happens 
>to.  It means I can ONLY wear the cheapest of suits - 100% Polyester.
>I like a touch of poly in the white shirts, but a whole suit made of
>it?  Why not silk?

Hell, why not high grade COTTON?  This is another reason I detest
suits -- they're usually made out of fabrics I detest. Most of my
clothes are cotton -- though I do have one noil silk shirt which
is wonderful -- but as it has to be dry-cleaned, I don't wear it
very often.

Silk suits do exist, but they're very ex$pen$ive, I understand.
 
() The principal mark of genius is not perfection but
() originality, the opening of new frontiers.
()      -- Arthur Koestler
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Rainbow Flag
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:48:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: scd.BvtDH7.Ls9
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5

Anthony Berno (aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca) wrote:
 
> 2. (Ursinophobes need not read this. ;-) Is there an official "bear" flag?  
 
------------
Yeah, the flag of the State of California.

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: M A D O N N A
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:15:43 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Oct10.140438.20946@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob
Donahue) wrote:

> 	I don't deny that, but it's funny that at the same time we
> have people making the claims that Madonna is the mostest icon
> ever, when at the same time there is no evidence that in the
> long run she won't be (as Steve Dyer well put it) the Debbie Harry
> of the early-90's.

Bullshit.  Nobody has claimed Madonna is the 'mostest icon ever.'  The
claim is simply that Madonna *is* an icon.  Furthermore, you yourself,
in a fit of profound wit, having provided evidence to the very effect
that Madonna will *not* be the Debbie Harry of the early 90's:  Duran
Duran.  New Kids on the Block.  Tiffany.  These bands have come and *gone*
within the span of Madonna's career.  She has *already* proven to 
be of a different ilk.  Furthermore, her vast wealth guarantees her 
media presence whenever and wherever she wishes.  It was with a *snort*
that Dolphie responded to my contention that Madonna was 'a Major.'

But with a personal income of nearly *100* million dollars, Madonna
herself has the net revenues of a large studio.  She's not going
to disappear "in the early 90's" (which is where we are right *now*, yes?)

And while *wealth* seems to be viewed as a relatively minor accomplishment
around here - irrespective of Bob Donohue's opinion of it, *wealth* 
is a wonderful tool when it comes to getting what you want.  And Madonna
*wants* to be famous.

Melmothra, ACC
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Unwritten Law
Date: 12 Oct 1992 11:52:11 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1bcg5jINNsdu@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> 
byma@clouseau.cog.brown.edu writes:

> Either you have a just and loving God who has no problem with
> men loving men and women loving women, or you have an unjust
> God.

A just God?  An unjust God?  Have you ever read the 
Book of Job, Gary?

>      I know which one I would want to serve.

The one who reaffirms what you think.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: PASSING by Langston Hughes
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:11:55 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

In article <1992Oct14.003700.21340@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
>>> Tim Pierce (twpierce@unix.amherst.edu) wrote:
>>> 
>>> 			       PASSING
>>> 			   Langston Hughes
>>
>>There's a movie from the '30's that deals with this theme -- I can't
>>remember the name of it.  It has to do with a mother-daughter
>>relationship in which the daughter decides to pass.  Anyone out there 
>>know what I'm talking about?  Arne would know, but he's taking a break, 
>>more's the pity.
>
>Sounds like "Imitation of Life," a Lana Turner, John Gavin
>three-hanky from the 50s.  One of the subplots had Lana's
>black housekeeper's daughter trying to pass as white.

A remake of the 1934 film, released in 1959. Juanita Moore
played the black mother (it is the parallel stories of two
mothers, after all), and Susan Kohner plays her daughter.
Both Moore and Kohner were nominated for Supporting Actress.

Mahalia Jackson is in this one, as well as Robert Alda
(Alan's dad), Dan O'Herlihy, Sandra Dee, and Jack Weston,
among others.

This one was directed by Douglas Sirk, the 1934 version by
John M. Stahl. The latter's version was nominated for Best
Picture, btw. Sirk also remade Stahl's MAGNIFICENT
OBSESSION. Stahl was the master of weepy "women's films",
with a flair for elevating his material to higher levels.
Sirk who was just seen as a competent melodramatist in the
U.S. developed a rather different reputation overseas after
1970 and is said to have greatly influenced Fassbinder's
political movies.

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: My Bad Mouth
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 07:18:00 GMT


In article <thaaang.719214100@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu
(John Dorrance) writes:

>God, next thing you know I'll be twirling a
>baton...

Oh let *me* twirl your baton.  I'm *really* good at it!

>John, following up after himself (how Jessical!!!)

Just pay the royalties, son, and you can write your own
ticket.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Joan-Rhymes (was Re: Sean)
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:32:20 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1992Oct12.015111.27318@macc.wisc.edu>,
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> In article <1992Oct11.225732.9735@quantime.co.uk>
> roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
> >Last time I had Nelson naked in his room, the toys neatly
> >packaged beside the futon, he fell asleep.  So I went to
> >work.
> 
> I always think of Nelson as modest, and here you are
> trumpteting (you strumpet!) his nonexploits around the
> *entire* world like.

Not-kiss and tell, that's me.

> (Psst!  Roger!  What did you go to work *on*, hmm?)

On a bowl of crunchy nut corn flakes,
and then on a pair of Doc Martens.

(I could have said "on the tube",
but unfortunately my commute is only ten minutes' walk.)

Oh, and perhaps I should mention,
for the sake of Nelson's reputation,
that we were in different timezones.
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*tick* n. any of the larger blood-sucking acarids: applied also to
the sheep-ked and similar degenerate bloodsucking Diptera"
-- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss