HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 14:02:48 EST
From:         Stacy B Veeder <SBVEEDER@SUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Teching ethics at elementary levels

Scott Guthery <guthery@SLCS.SLB.COM> writes:

>Computers ... or more specifically the lack thereof ... are just the latest
>in a long, long string of excuses for the abysmal failure of the public
>school system.

>Harold Brochmann, Teacher, Computer Science, tells us about:
>
>"master keyboard skills", "express himself on a word processor", "write in a
>free and expressive way", "create otherwise unattainable images", "explore a
>medium of communication otherwise inaccessible".

>Folks, this is junk.  These kids can't read, they can't write, the can't
>reason, they haven't the slightest idea where in the world they are, they have
>no sense of history ...  and yet we giving them computers for "exploring a
>medium communication otherwise inaccessible".  This is puree of nonsense.
>
>The educrats have failed and continue to fail.  We taxpayers want our money
>back and we parents want our kids back.  It's time to simply close the public
>schools.

(sorry to repeat the entire post, but context is everthing...  ;-)   )

Scott, we all know how you feel about modern-day education.  As a doctoral
student who teaches undergraduates, I (gulp!) have to agree with you _in part_.
They CAN'T write, etc., etc.  Recently, some students complained that an exam
(open-book, mind you!) "wasn't fair" because they didn't know how to take
effective notes in class....  BUT-  closing the public schools isn't the
answer.  If you so strongly believe it is, you can, of course, put your
own children into a private school.  But for the millions who cannot afford
that option, closing the public schools guarantees a life of no education
at all...and a future for our country that I doubt you would like.

The answer, obviously, is to improve the quality of public education--beginning
with the youngest levels, rather than college-level remedial work, which comes
far too late.  Computers not only can support instruction in the traditional
basic skills (reading, writing, math, geography, etc.), but also introduce
a new skill that is becoming as basic as the others:  Students who reach
high school unable to use a computer, unable to understand and navigate
the networks, etc., will be as educationally handicapped as those today
who cannot construct a coherent sentence.

Stacy B. Veeder
Bitnet:   SBVEEDER@SUVM.BITNET
Internet: sbveeder@suvm.acs.syr.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: ethics-l@UGA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"ethics-l@uga.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 09:47:00 EST
From:         BM2762@ALBNYVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Mr. Covaleskie's example

        Concerning Mr. Covaleskie's example of ethical examples of
unethical behavior, or "the ends justify the means..."

One party who might resent your intrusion into a thief's system would
be the US legal system.  We have what are known as rights in this country,
more especially, the thieves have them, and the unethical have them.

While I would agree to your actions, it is incorrect to say that 'noone'
would condemn your Machiavellian tactics.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: ethics-l@UGA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"ethics-l@uga.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:03:00 EST
From:         YO LARRY <GM1116@ALBNYVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      give the money back

        another problem I forgot to mention is, what about children
with no parents?(orphans)  Do we just say forget them???  Are Americans really
that heartless???

gary
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"ETHICS-L@UGA.BITNET"
Original_cc:  RENGLAND
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 01:42:00 EDT
From:         Rich England <RENGLAND@SNYESCVA.BITNET>
Subject:      Listowner

Member forgive this mail - listowners, several folks have subscribed
within the last two weeks but are not receiving list email.  Please
contact me as my emails to UGA have gone unanswered as well.

Rich England
Empire State College
[RENGLAND@SNYESCVA.BITNET]
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 19:33:49 -0500
From:         Christopher Davis <ckd@EFF.ORG>
Subject:      Robert Morris

SG> == Scott Guthery  <guthery@SLCS.SLB.COM>

 SG> In re RTM, anybody want to discuss the complicity in unethical
 SG> behavior of the system managers who even after having been informed
 SG> of the hole through which RTM's worm wriggled, left their systems
 SG> wide open anyway?  If you leave your car running with the door open
 SG> in front of the 7-11 and somebody drives off in it, you'll find
 SG> that the insurance company won't pay as if it was stolen and the
 SG> courts will back them up.  If there were a notion of being an
 SG> accomplice in an unethical act, the people whose machines when down
 SG> certainly would qualify.  I think we should have seen them in the
 SG> courtroom along with RTM.

Arguably, the operating system vendors, not the system administrators,
should be first against the wall by your lights.  After all, not only
did they know about the holes, the fixes were available to them as to
anyone else; if your car had a hidden button in the left rear wheel well
that allowed anyone to unlock the doors and start the engine, is it the
fault of the car's owner (who may not even know it's there) or the
manufacturer that put it in (or left it in the design)?

Certainly I never would have thought that integer division was a
potential security hole--until I saw the CERT Advisory on that very
vulnerability in SunOS.  And the manuals for sendmail didn't say "oh by
the way, you should disable the DEBUG command."

Christopher K. Davis      | ``Usenet seems to run much like the Kif (or,
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   |   for the TV generation, Klingon) high command.
System Administrator, EFF |   Whoever takes action and can be heard wins.''
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   |   --Peter da Silva <peter@ferranti.com>
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X-Envelope-to: ethics-l@UGA.BITNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:01:00 EST
From:         YO LARRY <GM1116@ALBNYVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      give the money back

I really don't understand how this will aid in educating children.

Assumption, tax for education is a flat 20%(oversimplified and inflated
hopefully, but assume that it is)
As I understand it EVERYONE pays for the education of children, who are
the future of the nation.  Its unfair in one sense that those with
no children must pay for those with children.  On the other hand, its
fair in the sense that those that received public education must later pay
for others to receive the same benifit.

        Therefore, if you "give the money back", you are not giving the whole
300 billion to ONLY people with children.  Rather, you are giving it to
everyone who paid the taxes for it, so it will become diluted.

        Now, based on the 20% education tax assumption, that means that
for every 10000 you make, you'll have 2000 for education.  2000 is NOT ENOUGH
to educate ONE child(if we assume costs comparable to the cost for 1 year
of college).  Lets assume that 2000 is enough, however.  This means that
everyone in the 10k braket will be able to educate 1 child, no more(so if they
have 2 children, the second child will receive NO education).  20k can afford
to educate 2 children, etc, etc.  In affect, the only children who will truly
receive a decent education are the children of the rich.  The poor will have to
   make do will little or no education for their children, which will only
increase the number of people living in poverty and starving in this country!
(that's supposed to be "make do with little..." not "make do will little..."

        Public education is the only really viable option.  yes, there ARE
people in this country who educate their children themselves and the children
receive adequete(if not superior education), like the Amish.  However, its impor
   tant to remember that its not ONE Amish family educating their child(ren), it
   s
the WHOLE community of Amish who are paying for the education of the community's
   children.  It only works if there is a group of people devoted enough to spen
   d
the time and money on it.


Gary
GM1116@albnyvms
From: JSDRL1@ALASKA.BITNET (Sea Dog)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Subject: Re: Teching ethics at elementary levels
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:03:47 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

This may be a little off the subject but after reading enough of Guthery's
comments to realize he is a tragic minority who apparently wants to get
everybody excited with his reactionary  comments, I don't much respond to
him anymore.  He and Pat Buchanan make comments that sounded a lot better
when they were in the original German.

What I would like to comment on is this need to re-post somebody else's
post--or parts thereof--and then proceed to state a counter-position.
Does it seem to anybody else on this conference to be a convoluted way of
discussing something; a statement is made, the respondent copies the statement
and comments on it, the respondent of the respondent copies the statement
and the previous response and then forms a new response adnauseam...

In normal conversations people don't repeat the previous speaker's statement
and then make a new statement...but instead each statement stands on its own.

Perhaps I am out of line proposing that people in a computer discussion just
state their individual positions, and not restate every other position ever
said which might be relevant, but for my time on-line I would prefer to just
read what each person has to say on a topic and go back to something said by
somebody else if I need to make a comparison.

Does anybody else agree with me?  Please don't recopy parts of my posting and
refute them...just make a straight out statement and I'll shut-up unless I
have a thought which is independent of reacting to something which must be
quoted to be understood.
DONN
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 14:17:56 -0600
From:         guthery@SLCS.SLB.COM
Subject:      Teching ethics at elementary levels
Comments: To: ETHICS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
Comments: cc: ETHICS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
              4 Nov 1992 14:02:48 EST <9211041919.AA01908@leo.asc.slb.com>

Stacy:

If you gave back the $300 BILLION that we spend on public education every year
to the people you took it from, *EVERYONE* would have plenty of money to send
their kids to school wherever they like.

Public school educrats have this strange notion that this money is theirs to
keep.  What's even more amazing, they're able to talk themselves into
believing that they do something to earn it.

Shut the public schools, give back the money, and watch the scores soar.
Isn't this what Boy Clinton means by "empowering" us to assume more
responsibility for our own lives?  We're not empowered if you keep the guano.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"ETHICS-L@UGA.BITNET"
Original_cc:  RENGLAND
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 01:29:00 EDT
From:         Rich England <RENGLAND@SNYESCVA.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: ethics and morals

John, I'll just disagree with you.  I can't make that transition where
you deciding on your own to break into Bill's office for whatever reason
is the same as a police officer entering with a valid warrant.  I can't
see how the two acts are essentially the same even if the results might
be identical.  In your senario I would (off the cuff) say you acted in
an unethical manner and the police officer acted ethically.

Rich England
Empire State College
[RENGLAND@SNYESCVA.BITNET]
"Ethical Computing Just Feels Good!"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: aix-l@PUCC.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"aix-l@pucc"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:07:00 MET
From:         Petit Marc <PETIT@RUGR86.RUG.NL>
Subject:      Info over VideoGenesis/24

Date sent:  10-NOV-1992 17:07:19
>    Hello,
>    We would like to purchase a high end workstation for visualization using
>    AVS and may DX(Data Explorer) as graphic application.
>    We are thinking about the following systems: HP 9000-730, SGI 310/VGX or
>    an IBM RS/6000 model 550 or 560.
>    We want to connect this workstation to a laser VideoDisk recorder from
>    Sony : LVR-4000P using a frame buffer.
>    I would like to know if there is anybody using an VideoGenesis/24 frame
>    buffer with the IBM RS/6000?
>    Thank you,
>    Marc
>
+----------------------------------+---------------------------------+
|       Dr. M.A.C.E. Petit         |     Computing Center            |
|       Head Group Systems         |     University of Groningen     |
|       petit@rc.rug.nl            |     Postbus 800                 |
|       (31) 50-638080 Voice       |     9700 AV Groningen           |
|       (31) 50-633406 Fax         |     The Netherlands             |
+----------------------------------+---------------------------------+
From: IBM4@INDYCMS.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Subject: aix ps/2 slip
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:55:55 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Does anyone know where i can get a SLIP package for the ps/2, AIX 1.2,
or 1.3?

Thanks in advance,

Brian Stone
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l,comp.unix.aix
From: steves@versyss.com (Steve Shapiro)
Subject: Re: HOWTO Duplicate a 3.2.1 bootable install (original) tape
Reply-To: steves@versyss.UUCP (Steve Shapiro)
Organization: VERSYSS Incorporated, Torrance, California
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:16:53 GMT

I've done this a lot. ibm aix install tapes consist of multiple sections.
brief summary:
boot block
installation scripts
table of contents
packages

there are multiple packages on the tape.
what you need to do therefore is write a loop that dd's each section off
the tape into separate files. using a incrementing counter works.
then dd each block back on to a new tape in the same manner.

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:59:10 EST
From:         Peter Papadopoulos <PPAPADOP@TWAIN.BITNET>
Subject:      SLIP w/modems

I'm trying to set up slip to work with a modem off an RS6000 320h powerstation
 running 3.2.2 AIX. I need to have the person when they call in to the tty1 port
to kick off slattach then. I can't run slattach before the person calls in but
 after the modem has negotiated and they're sitting there. My question is if
 there is a way to not run the getty process on the port but instead have a
 script file that wil
l kick off as soon as some one has connected to the tty port through a modem.
 /or any info on tricks of the trade with slip working with a modem to a third
 party product.
--
Peter Papadopoulos
ppapadop@twain.notis.com
NOTIS SYSTEMS INC.
Evanston, Illinois
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 18:19:00 EST
From:         "Peter C. Vernam" <pcv1584@MVS.DRAPER.COM>
Subject:      Re: Imake on AIX

>Has anyone set up UNIX Imake on AIX? If so is it public domain and where might
>I find it?
>
>
>Dennis Putnam                           Alabama Supercomputer Network
>Service Manager                         dap@asnsvr.asn.net
>Boeing Computer Services                (205) 971-7429

It comes bundled with the MIT X11R5 distribution, which is available
from export.lcs.mit.edu and a multitude of other sites.

The X11R3 version of it is also in the AIX 3.1.5 distribution, in
/usr/lpp/X11/Xamples/util/imake.


Peter Vernam                              Email: vernam@draper.com
Draper Laboratory, Inc.                   Voice: 617-258-2735
555 Technology Square                     Fax:   617-258-1131
Cambridge, MA 02139
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 08:15:18 EST
From:         sundare@WATSON.IBM.COM
Subject:      please unsubscribe me from this list

UN-REGISTER. UNSUBSCRIBE.

Thank you. Chris Sundaresan
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:31:19 MEZ
From:         Klaus Kretschel <RZ13@DLRVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: TeX 3.141
              4 Nov 1992 08:26:21 -0600 from <james@MATT.KSU.KSU.EDU>

On Wed, 4 Nov 1992 08:26:21 -0600 James Alfred Monschke said:
>
>I am preparing to upgrade our installation of TeX from version 3.0.  The most
>current general unix distribution I can find is 3.14, but I have found
>machine specific releases of version 3.141, including one specific to AIX.
>The AIX specific version however is not set up the way I would like.
>What I am looking for is the generic unix distribution of TeX3.141.  Does
>anybody know where I can find it?
>
If you don't find a nearer location you can get Knuth's original TeX 3.141
in rusinfo.rus.uni-stuttgart.de under /soft/tex/systems/knuth/tex.
But don't you think it would be easier to adopt the AIX version to your
wishes?

Klaus Kretschel
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
From: tbel@oahu.cern.ch (Tim Bell)
Subject: XL Fortran 2.3
Organization: CERN, European Research Center for Particle Physics
Distribution: bit
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 11:52:19 GMT


The features that I'd heard about are below.  Some of these are
implemented in the compiler, some in the pre-processors supplied with XLF.

Derived Types (partial compliance)
Interface blocks (partial compliance)
Internal procedures (partial compliance)
CASE construct
Array language (partial compliance)
Exit and Cycle
Do and Do-while enhancements
Named If
Procedure End statement
Result length of logical operations

Other extensions included

STRUCTURE, RECORD, UNION and MAP
FORMAT expressions
New service and utility procedures
VIRTUAL statement
VOLATILE
Character count Q edit descriptor
Additional intrinsic functions allows in PARAMETER
Trigonometric functions in degrees
Character constant expressions allows in arithmetic/logical
expressions

Other enhancements

SAVE/NOSAVE compiler option
fixed record length for NAMELIST output
FLOAT, FLTTRAP, MAXMEN and OPT options
XLFRTEOPTS environment variable

--
Tim Bell
IBM High Energy Physics European Centre
CERN, Geneva, Switzerland
TBEL@OAHU.CERN.CH
From: jjlh@norm.scs.uiuc.edu (jh)
Subject: TeX - AIX
Organization: scs
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:37:10 GMT
Keywords: Tex

There was some discussion recently about generic TeX for AIX, as well as
an AIX specific form.  Could someone give me an ftp site for the most
recent AIX specific version.   Thanks, jh.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Subject: Re: search for cdplayer program
From: graeme@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz ( Graeme Moffat)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:51:36 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

Andre Potengy <potengy@VISGRAF.IMPA.BR> writes:

>Does anybody ever heard about a program to play compact disks on a
>RS 6000 ?

There was one posted on comp.unix.aix a while ago, called xcd061.
I think it can be ftp'ed from mycroft@gnu.ai.mit.edu

-- 
Graeme Moffat                g.moffat@aukuni.ac.nz \ Time wastes us all, 
Computer Aided Design Centre,  Fax: +64-9-366-0702 /  our bodies & our wits
School of Engineering,    Ph: +64-9-737-999 x8384 /  But we waste time,
University of Auckland, Private Bag, Auckland, NZ \   so time & we are quits
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:15:57 -0500
From:         "Rob McAteer" <rob@CSI.ON.CA>
Subject:      Re: imake
              Nov 7, 92 5:02 pm

>
> Thanks to those who told me were to look in AIX 3.2 for X11 imake. Now I'm
> down to the next layer of the onion. I built X11 Xamples but shouldn't there
> be a xmkfs command? When I use imake it cannot find the template files and
> I don't know how to tell imake where they are. I was told that i have to run
> xmkfs -a first but it didn't seem to get built. What did I miss?
>
> Dennis Putnam                         Alabama Supercomputer Network
> Service Manager                               dap@asnsvr.asn.net
> Boeing Computer Services              (205) 971-7429
>


--
Rob McAteer                                   CAnet: rob@csi.on.ca
Carp Systems International                    Voice: (613) 592-5780
600 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 200                  Fax: (613) 592-0584
Kanata, Ontario, Canada     K2L 4B6
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:25:00 EST
From:         "Peter C. Vernam" <pcv1584@MVS.DRAPER.COM>
Subject:      Re: imake

>Thanks to those who told me were to look in AIX 3.2 for X11 imake. Now I'm
>down to the next layer of the onion. I built X11 Xamples but shouldn't there
>be a xmkfs command? When I use imake it cannot find the template files and
>I don't know how to tell imake where they are. I was told that i have to run
>xmkfs -a first but it didn't seem to get built. What did I miss?
>
>Dennis Putnam                           Alabama Supercomputer Network
>Service Manager                         dap@asnsvr.asn.net
>Boeing Computer Services                (205) 971-7429


It's not "xmkfs", but "xmkmf" (as in "X make makefile").  Xmkmf is a fairly
trivial shell script that saves the current Makefile as Makefile.bak and then
invokes imake.  It is created automatically when building X11R5, and is
customized with the default installation directory of the configuration files
(see line 38 below).  Here's what got created for me when I specified

    #define ProjectRoot /nfs/fs1/pub/aix_3.1/X11R5

in the site.def file:

------------------------------ cut here ----------------------------------------
#!/bin/sh

#
# generate a Makefile from an Imakefile from inside or outside the sources
#
# $XConsortium: xmkmf.cpp,v 1.18 91/08/22 11:08:01 rws Exp $

usage="usage:  $0 [-a] [top_of_sources_pathname [current_directory]]"

topdir=
curdir=.
do_all=

case "$1" in
-a)
    do_all="yes"
    shift
    ;;
esac

case $# in
    0) ;;
    1) topdir=$1 ;;
    2) topdir=$1  curdir=$2 ;;
    *) echo "$usage" 1>&2; exit 1 ;;
esac

case "$topdir" in
    -*) echo "$usage" 1>&2; exit 1 ;;
esac

if [ -f Makefile ]; then
    echo mv Makefile Makefile.bak
    mv Makefile Makefile.bak
fi

if [ "$topdir" = "" ]; then
    args="-DUseInstalled ""-I/nfs/fs1/pub/aix_3.1/X11R5/lib/X11/config"
else
    args="-I$topdir/config -DTOPDIR=$topdir -DCURDIR=$curdir"
fi

echo imake $args
case "$do_all" in
yes)
    imake $args &&
    echo "make Makefiles" &&
    make Makefiles &&
    echo "make includes" &&
    make includes &&
    echo "make depend" &&
    make depend
    ;;
*)
    imake $args
    ;;
esac
------------------------------ end of file -------------------------------------


Peter Vernam                              Email: vernam@draper.com
Draper Laboratory, Inc.                   Voice: 617-258-2735
555 Technology Square                     Fax:   617-258-1131
Cambridge, MA 02139
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.aix-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 08:49:17 -0600
From:         Dennis Putnam <dap@ASNSVR.ASN.NET>
Subject:      Imake

My thanks to all those that responded to my request about Imake. Unfortunately
I have only the AIX 3.2 distribution and it is not in that apparently. I'll
have to down load the MIT distribution. Anybody know why IBM took it out?

Since that question was too easy here's one that might be more of a challange.
Is there a tape dump utility for AIX that will read any tape and report
its characteristics (e.g. recfm, blksize, lrecl, etc.)? Something like
DITTO for VM would be especially nice.


Dennis Putnam				Alabama Supercomputer Network
Service Manager				dap@asnsvr.asn.net
Boeing Computer Services		(205) 971-7429
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)