From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Types of Magic
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 00:46:37 GMT
Keywords: Vitalist, Mentalist, Mix of ?ists, my Definition of Magic(k)

drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:

>hz225wu@unidui.UUCP (Micaela "Stayka" Pantke) writes:

>>D> I'm not sure I understand the difference between life-force and mental
>>D> energy.  Could you give a few examples?
>>
>>In my humble opinion life-force would be energy which is drawn to you
>>from other living things, be they animals, plants or men, be it given
>>willingly or unwillingly.  (Which would give my idea of 'black magick':
>>anything taken from or forced on unwilling participants, be they plants,
>>animals, men or whatever).  Mental energy would be energy contained
>>within yourself, or raised energy from one of the formerly named sources
>>which you incorporated for your own use and by that transformed to
>>mental energy.

>But would not life-force to you be someone else's mental energy?

Well, I can't speak for Stayka, but since it was my category system that
started the discussion, I'll jump in.

In my experience, the energies used in Vitalism and Mentalism are themselves
different.  What's being discussed here is assuming that they are merely from
different sources.  Every person has both Mentalist and Vitalism energies.  I
am as certain about this as I am because I use both.  Years ago, another
M/V person and I distinguished them as craft versus psi (craft=Vitalism; 
psi=Mentalism).  We noted that when we worked with psi, we needed calories,
as is described in the Darkover books.  However, when we had been doing craft,
we needed protein and Vitamin C.  Also, the two *work* very differently.
Much has been written about Mentalist energies, with all the books on auras,
etc.  However, in Western Culture, very little has been written about Vitalist
energies.  The best direction I can point someone for writings about Vitalist
energies is east.  The oriental concept of chi/ki is very much what I mean
by vital force.  Like the Chinese, I find that vital force exists everywhere,
not just in what we think of as living.  Another distinction I find relevant
is that the focus of attention in Mentalism is the head--our focus goes there,
we shield there, we communicate from there--while the focus in Vitalism is
the center of the body.  Also, the things one can readily do with the talents
of the two Realms are quite different.  Telepathy, for example, is distinctly
Mentalist, while Vitalism has no equivalent communication technique.  When 
doing Vitalist work with others, one has a general 'feel' of them, but no
real communication such as usually occurs within Mentalist group-work.

I hope this helps people understand the distinction.  If it is still not
completely clear, let me know.

>>D> What do you mean by magic?
>>
>>I want to answer that question my way -- IN MY OPINION magic(k) is
>>something that science can't explain rationally AT THE MOMENT, and
>>something that moves something in the senses of the magic(k) worker and
>>co-workers, or in the senses of others sensitive to those phenomenons. 

>OK, I can partially agree.

I, however, disagree completely with this.  It is my experience that all magic
occurs via a human consciousness.  Science cannot understand human
consciousness, since it is not well behaved.  People can claim that they are
doing science, while doing games with statistics, but the medium of magic
(human beings) are inherently inappropriate for the scientific method.
Therefore, science will never be able to rationally explain magic because it
is non-rational (not the same as irrational!).

Bran's definition of magic: a range of processes of connecting with various 
subtle aspects of reality, and then, sometimes, influencing them with our 
intent.

Please note that this definition of magic intentionally contains several
undefined terms.  This is for several reasons:  1. As I've pointed out, I don't
consider magic to be any one thing, but four major categories of things, with 
subgroups; these various types of magic are different enough that anything 
which is true for one is likely to be false for another.   2. Everyone's
subjective experience is going to be coded differently, so any verbal 
definition of these terms is likely to not make sense to some people who have
developed a different internal language for these things.  3. This makes people
*think*--it makes them struggle to see how their own experiences can be
related to this definition.  Only then can this definition be useful to 
individuals.

Enjoy the journey!
                      --Br'anArthur
                                      Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
usually uses with Folgers crystals.  Let's see what happens...."
                                      --DACCrowell
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