HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kditto@nyx.cs.du.edu (Kimborly Ditto)
Subject: Re: yet another weensy question from you-know-who
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 00:26:02 GMT


No real idea of exact pagan meaning of a sand dollar for you, but I just
wanted to comment that it is nice to know that others besides me are using
it as the natural pentacle it is.  It was something I was wondering
about....

Bright Blessings
--Athena
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Learning in North Carolina
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 19:25:00 EDT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

morgan@brewich.hou.tx.us (Morgan ap Rhys) writes:

> Damon... I would suggest looking around in your bookstores for some or
> all of the following books:
>
> Wicca:  A guide for the solitary practiotioner, Scott Cunnigham
>    Llewellyn's Practical Magic Series
>
> Celtic Magic (not sure of author or publisher)
>
> Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft (Raymond Buckland, good practical
> approaches to magic.  Large, workbook sized book, with blue cover"
>
puke.  this has to be one of the worst books on wicca out there.  buckland is a
charlatan.  check out the books in the New Age section of you friendly
neighborhood chain bookstore: _the magic of chant-o-matics_. _practical candle
magic_.  and the book above is sexist and homophobic as well.  there must be
SOME way to read books on wicca by men without reading buckland!

celtic magic, or so i have heard from people who are fairly knowlegeable on the
celts, is a travesty.  scott cunningham is fluffy, but not too terribly bad.
i've got one or two of his books myself...

 these can give you a good start on the road.  I have found that
> tbe best sources are B. Daltons, Waldenbooks, and the Book Stop.  Being
> national chains and not small independent stores, they have more freedom
> to carry material such as this, even in Jim and Tammy Fay country...

your university bookstore, if you live in a university town, is a better bet
though.  as is your local (if you have one) occult or new age store.  also
stores that specialize in recovery often have sections on paganism.

                                                -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
 I wish her insight to battle love's blindness            ________
 Strength from the milk of human kindness         Silence \      / Action
 A safe place for all the pieces that scattered      =     \    /    =
 Learn to pretend there's more than love           Death    \  /    Life
                                  that matters               \/
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: pagan self-defense
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:16:30 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep7.174946.28786@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>alizard@drc.UUCP (alizard) writes:
>> Personally, I believe twe pagans should keep a gun or two around
>> the house... because in this time period, the firearm is the most
>> workable tool for self-defense. 
>
>ljt3@CS1.CC.Lehigh.EDU (Lewis) writes:
>> I'd like to second this.  And third it.
>
>As with ANY weapon, a gun is useless unless you know how to use
>it and you're willing to do so.
>
>I STRONGLY recommend that you do a couple things first:

[good advice deleted for bandwidth]

>So, if you do those things and still want the gun, then go
>ahead and get it/them.  Then, follow some basic safety
>precautions. (e.g. Don't leave the gun loaded, or easily
>accessible to anyone.)

I still cringe when I think of people who have kids in the house.
Puh-LEEEEZE be EXTRAEXTRAEXTRAEXTRAEXTRAEXTRA CAREFUL if you have
children.  According to the TV they watch, people wave guns around all
the time, and they're more fun toys than devices that can blow a hole in
your best friend's head.  This advice to keep a shotgun by the door is
doable by people like me and the others who have no children on the net,
but for those who do, it's not much of a solution.  Kids and guns are a
shitty combination, no matter HOW hard you try to educate and warn them.

>By Lachesis, be careful!

By Atropos, more likely . . .

>Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
>fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
>wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
>are, Mother, so old and wise.

God/dess, I love this,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: Republicans & Propaganda
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 17:52:15 GMT

In article <MAD.92Sep2143650@spirit.spirit.clearpoint.com>, 
mad@spirit.spirit.clearpoint.com (Michael Davis) writes:
> I think I see where you want our thoughts to end up after reading your
> post: Hitler say some things and was a Nazi.  Republicans say some
> similar things.  Therefore Dan Quayle is a Nazi.

  I thought that Dan Quayle was a Nazi because he wants to gas
Pagans, Atheiests, and the Liberal Elite (tm) ;) ... no, BIG ;).

> Now, I'm not saying he is or isn't, but I doubt it.  My point about
> this is that this is bad reasoning and either you knew that when you
> posted or you didn't.  If you didn't know it, I offer the following
> analogy for clarification:  Hitler liked strudel (he may have, anyway)
> and was a Nazi.  I like strudel, therefore, I am a Nazi?  (Please
> don't quote this out of context :^).  On the other hand, you may have
> know it was poor logic, and said it anyway.  If you, I want to
> discourage that sort of debating.  After all, there are plenty of
> logically consistent ways to torpedo the Republican Party, that we
> need not use this sort of argument.

  If eating strudel was an important part of Nazism, then I
suppose that you could say you feel a certain kindredship with
Adolph.

  Since it's not, you probably couldn't.

  Saying things similar to Nazi rantings is _MUCH_ more of an
immediate link, and your analogy seems to belittle the point
PA142138@utkvm1.utk.edu (Nancy Proctor) was making.

  Since much of what Nazism was, and continues to be, was
embodied in their political messages and activities, then
comparing the political messages and activities of Dan Quayle
to those of Nazis _DOES_ establish a reasonable argument.

  For myself ...

  I think that the republiCONs want us all to focus on "family
values" (5 cents on the dollar), because they DON'T want
us to pay attention to the extraordinary mess that things
are in.  They'll throw a few lesbians, gays, and non-Christians
to the masses for entertainment and no one will notice that
the interstate system is crumbling, or that unemployment's
still creaping up, or that they're still LYING to us at each
turn of the dial.

  I'm not sure that the Nazi's had a similar reason for the
holocaust, but that is an interesting thought -- turning the
nation against a minority as an "inner threat"; throwing out
the heretic, as it were, for the masses to satiate themselves.

  "It's not _OUR_ fault, its _THERE_ fault!"

  Icky ... icky, icky, icky.

  Maybe it's time to start publishing that "Militant, Underground,
Disenfranchised Rag"(tm) again.

  Sure, and stand up like a target during an election year again?

                       ! ! ! N O T ! ! !

  Blessed be, Ciaran

  $uslinit; include oblig.sig <<
  "...And here, Queen Aphrodite, pour heavenly nectar into gold
   cups, and fill them gracefully with sudden joy."  -- Sappho >>
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:17:04 EDT
From: <AIY1@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Religions and Contemporary world problems

A dialogue that will be held in room 112 Kern on thursday, sept. 17 at 7:30 PM
A representative from Judaism, Christianity and Islam will be there, so.. be th
ere.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Men's Mysteries
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<2AAE6611.11366@news.service.uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 04:21:41 GMT

In article <2AAE6611.11366@news.service.uci.edu> 
cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>I can't comment onthis, and I'm not goin to try . . . except a little
>bit.  I think men have defined themselves negativelyfor a while -- we're
>not women.  If they can get past that, it would help.

This is the crux, is it not? As a fact of biology, women ARE something,
men can only BE something. Women have the option of BEING something, but
men do not have the reciprical option. This fact of biology can and has
been used as a tool of oppression, as in women's only purpose is a field
on which to sow the seed of man or a woman's place is in the home. But you
see what happens now that freedom brings options? Somebody has to deal
with reality and that somebody is man. It's not that big of a deal, this
stuff has been thought about and written about for a long time, it's in
the books of HIStory. But the days of mom raising the kids and doing the
housework at home and dad going off to work are no longer the status
quo. New arangements have to be worked out, and man is bound to be left
feeling insecure. But, speaking from the standpoint of history, I don't
think this is all that new either. Some have even theorized that
patriarchy may have arisen at the design by women; put men in charge to
give them something to do and to give them a sense of pride and worth
and to avoid stressing the delicate male ego. Notice that in the story
of Eden, it is Eve who is clever enough to eat of the fruit of knowledge
of good and bad, after having discussed it with the serpent and weighing
the pluses and minuses, and it is she who realizes that she will also
need man, so she gives him the fruit and he eats with out even saying a
word, presumably not even aware of all that is happening. Eve has
realized that human being is about to be born and knowledge of good and
bad is part of the meaning of human being and separation from the
transcendent is part of the meaning also. Just as a baby is expelled
from its mother's uterus, so Adam and Eve were expelled from the place
of conception, the garden. So, it's not always so clear who is controlling
the purse strings, so to speak. I think we can work together though and
work things out and deal with those who are a little Dan Quaylish and
cling to older notions of family values. What do you think?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: a gift for Ciaran
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:27:54 GMT

darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie) writes:

>Hi, Ciaran,

>I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed your various posts. You are
>truly a wonderful person - don't ever leave alt.pagan!

>My gift is a tune (I am a Tuneweaver, after all). I hope you like
>Irish music. This is a slip jig. I'm posting it here as a postscript
>file. It should be printable from any postscript printer. If you
>(or anyone else) has trouble with it let me know.

Hey..this is neat..I love this stuff. You got any more music you can
post?

/al


>Richard
>(Tuneweaver)
-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: duniway@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Duniway)
Subject: Re: pagan self-defense
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:15:28 GMT

I just couldn't stand it any more, so I had to ring in with my opinion.
This is not really pagan specific, so please direct the flames to my email.

Keeping a gun for self defense is almost always counterproductive.  You
increase the likelihood of armed confrontation by preparing for it.  This
is not some spiritual insight, this is based on readily availible data.
It is seven times more likely that someone in a household where a gun is
owned will be shot by that gun than by the gun of an extra-household
assailant.  More than half of the murders committed in this country are
the result of domestic disputes.  If you want to improve your safety learn
to be skilled in dealing with people, not firearms.

Again, DO NOT POST REPLIES! EMAIL to duniway@u.washington.edu

The best way to deal with life threatening emergencies is to avoid them

Bob Duniway
From: eburke@aludra.usc.edu (Kethry)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Learning in North Carolina
Date: 9 Sep 1992 09:32:25 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


For those in So Cal, there is also another BookStar in Woodland Hills on the 
corner of Victory and Canoga.  Take the 101 to Topanga Cyn N. to Victory,
Left on Victory to Canoga...It's on the right side....

I haven't seen their pagan section yet, but I know that the store is
there, I will check it out within the next few days and let you all know...

Bright Blessings,
Kethry
From: alizard@drc.UUCP (alizard)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: Alaska
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 18:19:36 PDT
Organization: BLa Bla Bla Bla Bla BLa BLa Concord,Ca

Those of you who are on the networks WWIV-Net, WWIV-Link, and I think
V-net who have access to the pagan oriented subs (that's what these
networks call newsgroups) know that there are at least several bbs
systems with pagans on them in that state.
B*B
alizard
  alizard@tweekco.uucp  OR  boo!tweekco!alizard@PacBell.COM
  [uunet]!pacbell!boo!tweekco!alizard
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: FAQ on Pagan Bookstores
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:59:24 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:

>Would someone like to create a FAQ listing good sources for books
>and other things for various cities.  People could write in for
>their city. 

>I would do it, but I don't think I know enough about netting to
>do it properly.  However it would be good.

>We might want to do the same thing for books, and "what is 
>paganism" etc.  I think creating some FAQ's for this group
>would be a good idea.

>If someone is willing to tell me how to do it I would be willing
>to give it a shot.

>Tammy

We are working on a FAQ.  We have colleted questions, and lists of books.  I
think we also have lists of music, but Tim would know for certain.  We have
not accumulated local resource lists, but if people email them to me, I will
save them.  We are going to create several lists--one of which will be the
actual FAQ, the rest will be a book list, a music list, etc.

Bran, for the ad-hoc alt.pagan FAQ commitee:

     Ailsa Murphy   ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
     Br'anArthur Davis-Howe ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
     Susan Harwood Kaczmarcik   amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
     Tim Radykewycz   radzy@cogsci.berkely.edu

"You drew a circle to keep me out--
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But Love and I had the wit to win:
We drew a circle that took you in."
                (I don't know the author)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz)
Subject: Re: yet another weensy question from you-know-who
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 22:56:50 GMT

In article <NcwoqB1w165w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>
>me too!  i'm glad you posted, because after hearing that there wern't any, i
>thought i might have been hallucinating!  neat things, sand dollars...
>
>                                           -ailsa

Hey, ailsa!

There are lots of sand dollars on the Oregon Coast.

- Gretchen
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Gretchen Klotz		      Computing Services
              klotz@lclark.edu			Lewis & Clark College
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: masculine and feminine
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 01:56:00 GMT

After reading a post by someone moaning (it seemed like) about
splitting things into masculine and feminine, I just had to post.

I think you got mine or someone elses comments out of context.
I have never said the things you are "moaning" about.  I feel
that masculine and feminine balance things.  They are the perfect
match, as the Yin and Yang.  You must have light and dark to
understand either.  You must study all parts to totally understand
the whole.  You can not through away either male or female aspects
and expect to understand.

You mentioned that you don't believe that you have to invoke both
god and goddess for magic to work.  Well, no you don't.  However
I feel that your magic is much stronger if you do.  They don't
have to be equal.  In fact, depending on what you do you may\
not want them to be equal.  However, like the legs of the alter,
or the foundation of building, or the structure of an atom, it
will be stronger if it is evenly balanced.

Do not wail at what other people claim is the "Right" way to
do things.  Do things as they are best *FOR YOU*.  Let the
dogmatics do the howling.

Blessed Be and good luck,
Tammy
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: yet another weensy question from you-know-who
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:46:29 GMT

In article <las8gaINNac7@aludra.usc.edu> eburke@aludra.usc.edu (Kethry) writes:
>
>Aisla, I'm new here, but I used to work in a museum in the Echinoderm
>section (the section with sand dollars if you didn't know) and can find
>out for you if you would like where some are on the east coast Other than
>Florida because From what I know about FA and what I've been reading here,
>you might have decided not to go there...
>
>Bright Blessings,
>Kethry

Puh-LEEEZE find out for all of us!  I asked the original question about
the Pagan symbolism in the sand dollar, and I'm dying to know whether or
not it is extant in the Mediterranean.  Post what you can find out!

Blessings,
Janis
From: jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: How many ______ does it take to change a light bulb?
Date: 13 Sep 92 16:52:04 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


How many Zen masters does it take to change a lightbulb?

None. Zen masters see by their own inner light.
-- 
Jessica McGeary
jmm25@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
Remember! Arguments should be FUN!
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Hazel Eyes
Date: 9 Sep 92 07:56:19 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <79399@ut-emx.uucp> amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik) writes:
>
>Has anyone else heard anything relating to the amount of gold/white in
>people's irises?  I've been told that studies have been done in which
>the subjects exhibiting the strongest psychic abilities had gold or
>white marks in their irises (or in some cases, pure amber eyes).

GodDESS, If this is true, I'll pick tomorrow's winnig lottery numnbers
for you for a 50-50 cut.  Hell, I'll just do it for myself! 

Blessings,
Janis
From: michael@adriaan.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Other Requirements of Masonry?
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:24:07 GMT
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: kd21+@andrew.cmu.edu's message of 4 Sep 92 16:43:39 GMT

In article <Medt8vm00WBN03YYka@andrew.cmu.edu> kd21+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kathryn Tiffany Digiacinto) writes:

  =I was wondering if one could become a mason without having had a family
  =member that was a mason.  I assume one could become one based upon the
  =list already given by a mason.

If you were a man, you could join w/o family connections at 21,
w/family connections (specifically one's father, I believe) at 18.

If you are a woman, though, I believe you'd need connections to get
into an auxillairy group
   
   
  =I ask in part because when I was around 13, a friend of mine took me to
  =a few Rainbow girls meetings.  I didn't become one, and back then hadn't
  =a clue what it meant.  I just thought it was terribly boring, and that
  =none of the girls at the meetings were of any interest.  Which is one of
  =my main problems with this seperation business, because whether I was
  =living 200 years ago or today, I would still want to be part of the core
  =group, and also feel that such memberships should be based upon
  =intelligence and intellect rather than something as trivial as sex or
  =race.  
   
Nary a dissent from yours truly. Except for the bit about race. WAIT!
Let me explain! It IS trivial. It's just a shame that the "free born"
clause has been used to exclude so many, especially since just about
everybody in this country now qualifies as "free born".

  =Oh well, I agree with the statement that the masons have fallen, and so
  =it is not all the disappointing that I cannot become a mason.  It is
  =rather annoying that in the history books I have seen for most young
  =people, it is never mentioned that many of the forefather's were masons.
  = Our country likes to ignore anything in its history which may seem
  =secretive/taboo or what I would term significant and interesting.
  =-Kathryn T. DiGiacinto

Yep. Though to generalize about any group ("masons have fallen")
leaves one wide open. Think of how many generalizations have been
made about Wicca, for instance.
 
As an aside, though:
There has been a thread for a while about men's mysteries.
Mayn't Masonry be considered as one type of such still
being practised. Are there any Wiccan/pagan Masons out there
who would not be uncomfortable in commenting on this?

Michael "Not a Mason, but I play one on the net" Chaplin.

--
===========================================================================
Michael Chaplin                    Language is a virus from outer space.
michael@albert.bu.edu                     - William S. Burroughs

The Einstein Papers Project        The opinions contained herein reflect
Boston University                      neither those of the project, 
Boston, Massachusetts, U.S.A.          nor those of Albert Einstein.
From: hulda@eagles.uucp (Hulda Thunarsson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: books for new pagans
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 19:07:20 CDT
Organization: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru - Elder Hof

dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:

> In article <1992Sep4.233224.7745@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, st923058@pip.cc.brand
> 
> > My problem is that I am eighteen years old and have recently
> > informed my parents that I have been Wiccan for over a year. Now they want 
> > book about it to read so they can decide whether or not they are going to
> > disown me. (I HOPE I'm only joking...) Does anyone have any suggestions,
> > either for books of the parentally readable type or for a good explanation
> > I can give them?

A really good book that I found (the first one I ever read, coming out of 
a Baptist family) was  Positive Magic by: Marion Weinstein.
Another one you might consider is Natural Magic by Doreen Valiente.
The latter I have not read myself by my husband says its good.

Positive Magic, I started reading with the idea that anything that was not
christian had to be "of the devil".
By the middle of the book my way of thinking began to change and by the 
end of the book I was pagan/heathen forever.
Marion has a way of explaining things that I think will go over well with 
your Mother

Hulda Thunarsson