HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed)
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:08:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.055738.8110@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
>In article <EeOr_aW00WB2EUcVcI@andrew.cmu.edu> Radu Eugen Edelstein <re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>
>>I say:
>>How do you explain the fact that the piles of rocks were prepared
>>in advance, that the "worshipers" went directly to those piles at
>
>HAHAHAHA...what a load of crap!  How were the Muslims supposed to
>know that right-wingers planned a rally that day?  Do they make
>a habit of informing their enemies of their rallies?

I donno abput prepared piles but they knew that there was a rallie -
it was banned and they were informed - see Ben David's post WRT
investigation.

[...]
>>go there to worship en masse, and Palestinians knew that in advance),
[...]                 ^^^^^^^^
>
>Oh right....Jews only go ONCE A YEAR to the wall....And on MONDAY.

I dont remember what day it woz but rad said "en masse" - I assume he
claims that they pray there every day but that day there were more
people - but that is aside the point ...


>The videos showed it all-right...and afterward American public 
>opinion of Israel plummeted downward and sympathy for Palestinians
>went UP.  Yeah, the videos did indeed show it...


American public opinion don't make things right or wrong - everyone is
bound to get bad PR - it don't make the reponse right or wrong.

look at the video for what it gives you - people standing above the
wall throwing stones down on people that had nothing to do with any
rally!!!

Also if KKK marches down the street in a rally [and I am not
saying that Neemani har ha-bait = KKK] dosn't allow me to start
throwing stones at them - which was hardly the case here ....


	Wrong trees...

			-Nevo


-- 
Nevo Y.	 Hed              nyh@wpi.wpi.edu
++1-508-754-2491          CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Zachary Baumel
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:14:18 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

> The conditions at the Khiam prison in southern Lebanon, where Israel
> places its captives from the area, are notorious.  If you are not aware
> of this place, you should probably take the trouble to find out.  Just
> recently, I beleive, another report concerning the goings on there was
> put out by some humanitarian organization.
> --
Israel does not run thios prison but rather the SLA, and they are Arabs.

              ==========================================
                | We want to be troubled no more by Arabs;|
                |          room to breathe;               |
                |    a skyline cleansed of them           |
                |                                         |
                |      Franz Kafke, Jackals and Arabs     |
                ===========================================
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: territories vs the territories
Date: 21 Jul 92 03:46:32 GMT
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu's message of 21 Jul 92 03:03:06 GMT

In article <0eOrGre00WB28UcXJa@andrew.cmu.edu> re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein) writes:
>
> Hallam writes:
> I think that it is more enlightening to consider that no member of the
> security council recognises the Israeli annexation of Eastern Jerusalem
>
>
> I say:
> According to what I know, the US does recognize Eastern Jerusalem as
> part of Israel.  It is Jerusalem's status as capital of Israel that
> the US has problems with.  I think someone recently posted something
> similar to what I am saying.

I'm afraid you know wrong.  The US does not even recognize western
Jerusalem (i.e., the part taken by Israel in 1948) as part of Israel.
I've mentioned in the past that the US State Department will not record
a person's country of origin in a passport as 'Israel' if they were born
in Jerusalem.
--
Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
USC/ISI        I'm not trying to bag on him or anything, but he has the same
arens@isi.edu  mentality I have -- and I'm in the eighth grade."     Vanessa
               Martinez, after VP Quayle's visit to her school-LA Times 5/21
From: rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D. Thorne)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Zachary Baumel
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:06:42 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

| The international community can do whatever it wants, but ISRAEL sounds
| a bit hypocritical in asking that Mr. Baumel be treated like a POW when
| they accord no such courtesy to people THEY capture in Lebanon.
| --
| Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
| 

     The international community sounds more than a bit hypocritical in
     claiming that international law applies only when ISRAEL is involved.

          Richard Thorne rdt@med.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Protests
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:45:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.132920.1@uwovax.uwo.ca>, singer@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:

|>It's a hoary anti-Semitic trick to equate any aspect of Jewish defensive
|>behavior to save Jewish lives during the Holocaust with that of the Nazis
|>themselves.

But that is not what Shamir & co were engaged in. Just as they were
trying to terrorise non-Jews out of leaving Palestine they were quite
happy for the NAZIs to terrorise Jews into leaving Europe.

It is not anti-Semtic to say that anyone regardless of their political
motives who freely assisted or offered to assist the NAZIs in WWII is
guilty of crimes against humanity. 

Shamir was never fit to be President of Israel, he got the position only
through the accident of being the only person Likud had who could do the
job.

If it makes Singer feel any better, may I point out that I have on a
number of occasions called for the trial of the ex-Prime Minister Harold
MacMillan for war crimes as one of those responsible for the Cossac
massacre. Many people who get grovelled to as "world statesmen" have
done quite unspeakable things. 


Phill Hallam-Baker
From: diaz@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Rafael Diaz)
Subject: U.S. territories vs. Israel territories
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Tx
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:35:32 GMT


I would like to raise an issue of comparing U.S. territories vs.
Israel territories. To be more specific I will use the Island
of Guam in the South-East Pacific ocean.

* The people of Guam are U.S. citizens, but they have NO voting power
  in the presidential election.

* The people of the W.B. & Gaza are NOT Israeli citizens and have
  no voting power in the Israeli elections.


  Could somebody explain why is it O.K not to have presidential 
  voting power in U.S. territories?


-Rafy

-- 
________________________________________________________________________
		       __        _    
  =_   __   ___    =  /  )      / )   ==========   diaz@sigi.sps.mot.com
 =  ) /_ )     )  =  /--<  _  -/-     == oakhill!sigi!diaz@cs.utexas.edu
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:01:54 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Jul23.182600.16986@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>
>In a previous article, awair@igc.org (Arab World and Islamic Resources) says:
>
>>
>>From: Arab World and Islamic Resources <awair>
>>Subject: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Protest
>>
>>July 1st was the last program on KALW-FM (San Francisco Bay Area)
>>regularly hosted by Colin Edwards, who for several years on that
>>station has given valuable information and commentary on the
>>Israeli-Palestinian conflict. 
>
>>
>>Edwards announced on his last show July 1 that "the station has
>>received many objections to my remarks from the Israeli Consulate
>>General and Zionist organizations and individuals....It was not my
>>decision to stop."
>>
>>Edwards, an Oxford-educated, former BBC Middle East correspondent
>>who now lives in Oakland, angered pro-Israeli listeners by voicing
>>provocative opinions and airing dirty historical linen on his
>>five-minute Wednesday morning program.  He spoke of how Yitzhak
>>Shamir and David Ben Gurion colluded with the Nazis during World
>>War II.  He described recent Israeli arms dealing with the
>>government of South Africa.  And he talked about the present-day
>>policy of "Israeli aggression" against Lebanon.
>
>I wonder if the fact that Edwards is a hate-monger, or the fact that he had
>little regard for facts and made up absurd, inflammatory statements such as
>"Yitzhak Shamir and David Ben Gurion colluded with the Nazis during World
>War II" could have had anything to do with his well-deserved canning. 

Our local paper, the Pittsburgh Press, has reported on Yitzhak Shamir's
dealings with the Nazis.  Should it be shut down? (Despite the fact that
the Teamsters have done that for several weeks now).

>-- 
>bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu

-anwar

-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: singer@uwovax.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Protest
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:38:53 GMT

Arens Junior quotes a newspaper piece by somebody named Michaels which purports
to quote a Jewish document presented to the Nazis in 1941 in which the
expression "Israeli liberation movement" (sic) is used. Does anybody know
whether the term "Israeli" was in use before 1948, and in fact as early as
1941? Could this be another Protocols of the Elders of Zion?-- 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Israel Cancels Building in the West Bank
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:39:03 GMT

In article <1xhmrlb.analyst@netcom.com>, analyst@netcom.com (David
Sternlight) writes:
> 
> Despite this announcement, Syria has said it won't do anything in
> return. Since it takes Syria for the Arab Boycott to be cancelled,
> this is tantamount to saying that won't happen.

What has Israel done? -- agreed not to build a number of settlement that
weren't even started or weren't even contracted for yet and announced
accelerated settlement in East Jerusalem!
 
> How long will it be before the State Department realizes that
> Assad is a bloodthirsty fascist dictator bent on territorial
> conquest (can you say "Lebanon", boys and girls?) and that both
> we and the Israelis will eventually have to fight him? Baker
> needs to have his head examined if he thinks he can get Assad
> to be cooperative voluntarily.
> 
> -- 
> David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM

How long will it be before the State Department realizes that the
history of Israel has been one of a blodthirsty nation bent on
territorial conquest (can you say "Lebanon", boys and girls? or Gaza? or
the Golan Heights? or the West Bank? or Jerusalem? or the land seized in
the '48 war?)?

Syria has done, unilaterally I might add, what Israel has screamed
should be done for so long -- disarmed the Palestinian fighters in
Lebanon and brought "peace" to the bulk of Lebanon. Let's see a little
give from the Israelis in response to this action; perhaps at least
ceasing its bombardment of villages and attacks outside of its "security" zone.

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU) 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:21:24 GMT
X-Disclaimer:  Material posted in this article is the sole responsibility of
                the poster and does not represent MCSNet or the system owners.

In article <tqmm=lm.analyst@netcom.com> analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>I see Yigal Arens public posts have become just as offensive as some
>of his recent emails to me. He's now on my kill list, right next to
>mutlu and the Neo-Nazis.
>
>-- 
>David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM

ARF says:

Once again, Mr Sternlight has proven that he needs to turn on his BOWLIGHT.

js
From: brian@baja.Corp.Sun.COM (Brian Edge)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: NUKE IRAQ
Date: 31 Jul 1992 20:19:40 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: brian@baja.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: baja.corp.sun.com

 
>In article 37722@imag.imag.fr, oueichek@ngulu (Ibaa Oueichek) writes:

> I suggest you join the guys at B-CPU, you've soooooooo much in commun,
>BIGOT.

    First what is "B-CPU??  and I guess you mean common??  Now as for Bigot?
    A bigot is a person who is intolerant in matters of religion, race, or
    politics.  I could care less what your religion is or what race you are.
    I guess we differ in politics since I am a proud american.  I am proud
    that our nation went to war with Iraq to save Kuwait.  I wish we had
    finished the job but I think that will happen soon enough.
    
    I guess you don't believe the people of Iraq are so dumb.  I think its
    pretty dumb of them to be thumbing their noses at the country that just
    defeated them at war.  
    
    Brian@baja

   

 
 

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Avoiding Flames
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 00:50:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul18.080247.6845@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:

>I quoted from the drafters in another posting.  While your final 
>paragraph is literally true, it is a gross distortion (I don't remember 
>if you made it) to suggest that giving back the Sinai was enough.  Only
>minor adjustments to borders were contemplated.

"Minor adjustments?"  How about a strip of land about 4 miles wide by
20 or 30 miles long?  That  is roughly the Gaza Strip.  Or maybe a 
border adjustment of about 20 or 30 miles in another direction: that's
the distance from Jerusalem to the Jordan River.  All you need are
"minor adjustments" to cover all the territory that Israel gained 
in 1967.  (You could also offer adjustments in the other direction:
about 6-7 miles separated the Mediteranean Sea from the Jordanian 
border - and this was at Israel's center!  Look it up on a '67 map.)

The lion's share of that land, the Sinai Peninsula, an area of about 
twice the rest of Israel, has already been given back to Egypt.  Or do 
you belive that there should be more "minor adjustments" to previous 
"minor adjustments"?  This is know as the "Piece Process", of course.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: territories vs the territories
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:15:50 PDT

In article <91523@bu.edu> gene@cs.bu.edu (Gene Itkis) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.193824.11592@rs.com> horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
>=In article <21983@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>=== In article <1992Jul21.063519.4451@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:
>=== +... Both of my daughters were born at the 
>=== +"Bikur Cholim" hospital, smack-dab in the middle of Jerusalem, and both of
>=== +their *American* passports list place of birth as "Jerusalem, Israel".
>==
>==...The latter is what my daughter did not long
>==ago, and she was explicitly told that had she written simply "Israel" no
>==questions would have been asked, but since she mentioned Jerusalem,
>==Israel could not be recorded as the place of birth.  At my daughter's
>==request the person at the passport agency checked again that this was in
>==fact the policy.
>=
>=Of course the Passport Agency knows. In order to obtain a US passport they
>=first had to be US citizens (which they obtained a few years after birth in
>=Tel-Aviv) -- proving US citizenship required submitting their Birth
>=Certificates and authorized translations of them from Hebrew into English. If
>=I had simply filled-in "Israel", the forms would have been rejected.
>=
>=My daughters' original US passports were issued in Tel-Aviv (listing
>=Jerusalem, Israel as POB), and their replacement ones were issued at the
>=Passport Agency in San Francisco.
>=
>=America just ain't what it used ta be.
>
>This is interesting. I hope both of you gentelmen would not mind specifying the
>chronology. I wonder if this is a result of simple beurocratical sloppiness or
>reflects an actual policy change.

Glad to, Gene.

Daughters born 5/82 and 11/84 at Bikur Cholim hospital in Jerusalem.
Daughters obtained US citizenship and initial US passports 6/85, in Tel-Aviv.
Daughters obtained replacement US passports 5/90, in San Francisco.

j.horen@rs.com

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nyh@fledgling.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed)
Subject: Re: Arab Gestures
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:44:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.182315.11052@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:

>>Can anybody list any substantial Arab gestures of goodwill towards Israel,
>>say comparable to ending the intifada, stopping terrorist attacks on
>>civilians, ending the boycott, ending the secondary and tertiery aspects of
>>the boycott, ceasing to distribute anti-semitic literature such as the
>>Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or something comparable?


>1> Me talking to you
>2> Peace with Egypt
>3> Meeting at the Peace table
>4> Accepting two states idea
>
>Give the Palestinians a state and you will not need any goodwill gestures, you
>will have peace.
>>Or can anybody explain why it is always Israel that is called on to take
>>confidence-building measures? 


	Nabil - you really didn't answer the question Israel has done
all of the 4 points you mentioned as well as the Arabs.  Israel has
[arguable?] more - where is the response.

	The responses are necessary for trust/confidence building -
and I had the feeling you knew that - was I wrong?

	The biggest obstacle to peace is mistrusrt - you can't just say
'give give give' - If the Arab states won't acknolledge pro-peace
developments in Israel, if they won't show flexibility - there is no
hope for development.

	Land exchange is somewhat permanenet- reversable by war.
Removal/easeing of a boycott is pretty much a reversable move - Infact
it could probably play into Arab's hands if they did lift the boycott.


	The ball is in your field - play.

		
			-Nevo
-- 
Nevo Y.	 Hed              nyh@wpi.wpi.edu
++1-508-754-2491          CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jsaypol@dasher.uucp (Josh Saypol)
Subject: Re: propaganda
Reply-To: jsaypol@dasher.UUCP (Josh Saypol)
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 18:24:22 GMT


If you are including this to show that the Arabs do not deserve
peace from the Israelis it is about to backfire.

Yehoshefat Harkabi (author of the book you quote the editorial from)
beleives the Israelis should make a land for peace deal AND negotiate
with the PLO if need be.

I refer you to his book "Israel's Fateful Hour" .   It's 1989 or
1990.  I do not know the publisher offhand.

Turning the Arab propaganda back against them is also
propaganda.



 Josh Saypol

 --   |   |   |  -----   |    |     -----    --   |      |   |   |
   |  |   |   |       |  |    |    |     |     |   ---   |   |   |
   |  |   |   |       |   ----|    |     |     |      |  |   |   |
   |   --- ---   -----        /    ------      |     /    --- ---
       		          ---                       | 
	
	"Stop playing these stupid `I'm not talking to you' games
 	 and just work it out already." 
			-- Your nursery school teacher 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: AR.VXF@forsythe.stanford.edu (Victor Filler)
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:59:12 GMT

In article <1483500289@igc.org>,
Arab World and Islamic Resources <awair@igc.org> writes:
>
>Edwards, an Oxford-educated, former BBC Middle East correspondent
>who now lives in Oakland, angered pro-Israeli listeners by voicing
>provocative opinions and airing dirty historical linen on his
>five-minute Wednesday morning program.  He spoke of how Yitzhak
>Shamir and David Ben Gurion colluded with the Nazis during World
>War II.  He described recent Israeli arms dealing with the
>government of South Africa.  And he talked about the present-day
>policy of "Israeli aggression" against Lebanon.

I would say the firing of Edwards was not directly related to the
content of his program.  It's probably more like a personnel-type
issue based on his having misrepresented his qualifications and
experience on his resume or employment application.

(Indirectly, however, the controversy is content-related.  It should
have been obvious from the start that his record was screwy.)

Look at the samples of Edwards's work above.  BBC indeed!  It's pure
Amateur Radio Forum.

So it seems it's an amateur/professional controversy, kind of like
sports.

Vic


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast