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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:37:49 CDT
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Calvinism
              "BENSON@pokvmcr3.vnet.ibm.com" at Dec 15, 92 4:22 pm

> Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM> states:
> > A dead man cant blow his nose, but I sure was blowing my nose
> > before I was born again..A dead man cant do a low of things!
>
>I believe you are mixing the physical and spiritual.  I never said
>that you were dead physically.  Therefore, you can blow your nose.
>I am saying you were dead spiritually so you can't choose God.
>

There are always parallels between the phsyical and the spiritual, that is
why I gave the example..


[deleting supporting scriptures, good selection!, well done]

>I really love verse 4 in the King James version.  It starts out
>"But God,..."  Those two simple words are the story of all of our
>lives!
>
Butting is for KIDS!

>Ian, I am not trying to convince you that you ought to believe the
>way I believe.  1 Pet. 3:15 says "Alway be prepared to give an answer
>to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you
>have."  There are many scriptures that one may use that would seemingly
>contradict these that I don't have answers for... yet.  But one day
>God will make all of this known to us.
>

Basically, I am not trying to convince you otherwise, but give a good
a good reason for others on the list to think quite carefully about
what they believe..

Basically I do not question the catholics to hurt the catholics, but to give
an alternative point of view to the younger members of the family out there
who are more easilly swayed..


>For now, I choose (uh oh! bad choice of words! :)) to believe that
>it is God who regenerates us and gives us the faith to choose Him.
>

heh heh nasty slip of the tounge there!! You choose?


>Do you think that God regenerates all and then some choose not to
>believe?  Or does God regenerate only some and then they can choose
>whether or not to believe?
>
>Mike Benson
>

What I think is that Jesus Christ died for all, but only some will choose
to accept him. I believe that those who choose to accept him are
predestined to accept him from the beginning of time ON THE BASIS OF GOD
BEING OUTSIDE OF TIME AND KNOWING BEFORE HAND WHAT OUR DECISION WOULD BE, NOT
ON FORCING US TO MAKE THAT DECISION (uppercase for emphasis, not shouting)..

I believe, like you, that before someone can believe, that God must do
a work in their heart to enable them to receive the salvation faith, but this
does not force them to either accept it or reject it, they simply have the
ability to make the choice..

The example is, that before my then fiance prayed for me, I had no desire
for spiritual things, I had no interest in church. Because of her prayers
and petitions, God removed the veil from my eyes and gave me a choice
to either choose or reject him. I chose him, and therefore BECAUSE of my
choice, I was predestined on the basis of foreknowledge from the beginning
of time to be his Son..

Gods Love



---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |      Phone   : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
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