HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: timlin@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Timlin)
Subject: Re: Shaq's impact
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:15:05 GMT

gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney) writes:

>I seem to remember a certain team (Syracuse) that had at a time anywhere
>from 2-4 very good NBA players.  On the team with 4 NBA players, if I
>remember correctly it didn't get past the second round of the tourney.
>Did any of them get past the second round?  The weakest player on that
>team was Stevie Thompson who was a pretty good college player.

>Stevie Thompson
>Sherman Douglas
>Ronnie Sykaly (yes I know I butchered his name)
>Billy Owens
>Derrick Coleman

How many were still around in '89 when they lost the regional final to
Illinois?  There's a big difference between the 2nd and 4th rounds.

Mike Timlin
timiln@spot.colorado.edu
From: gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Shaq's impact
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:45:19 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <18ftulINNcth@cs.utexas.edu> wardrb@cs.utexas.edu (Richard Byron Ward) writes:
>In article <1992Sep7.152926.4389@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney) writes:
>|
>|I seem to remember Ewing being upset by one Eddie Pinckney and Harold
>|Pressey (?) neither of whom put together is his equal.
>|
>"neither of whom put together"?

At least now anyway.  I certainly would trade for the two.  I wouldn't swap
in college either.  Assuming such a thing is possible.

>  Anyway, it was my impression that
>Pinckney outplayed or neutralized Ewing in every game that they
>played against eachother (and there were alot of games).  Eddie was
>a great college player and he matched up extremely well against
>Ewing.  Imagine how much better he would have been in college if
>he could have played his natural position of power forward!

My point exactly.  No matter how good a player you are, there will always
be a player or team at some point in your life that really makes you look
bad on a consistent basis.  Unfortunately for Shaq he's on a very bad team
so it's a much greater occurence.
>
>Rick
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Subject: Illinois/Michigan/Syracuse pros 
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:02:27 GMT

timlin@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Timlin) writes:

>gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney) writes:

>This is why not to get down on Shaq.  SU had 4 future NBA players and lost 
>to Illinois, who had 4 1/2 future NBA players. Illinois lost to Michigan
>who had 5? future NBAers.

>Illinois
>Hamilton    (plays/played in Turkey, anybody know if he still is?)
>Bardo       (he's the 1/2 -- 1 or 2 games last year. still with Mavs?)

	Actually, the 1 game Bardo played in the NBA last season was with
	the San Antonio Spurs.

>Gill        (starting SG for Charlotte)
>Anderson    (starting SG for Orlando)
>Battle      (played 2 years -- now in CBA)
>Liberty     (SF/SG on Nuggets -- Issel talks as though he'll start at SF)

	Actually, Larry Smith also played on this team (led the team in
	assists) and is now in the CBA.  Additionally, Andy Kaufmann was
	a freshman on this team -- and does seem to have some pro potential,
	if he has a solid senior season.

>So if SU wins, Illinois looks like bums.

>Michigan
>Mills       (PF with Nets)
>Vaught      (PF with Clippers)
>Rice        (starting SF for Heat)
>Robinson    (starting PG (last year) with Hawks)
>Higgins     (SF bouncing around the league for 2 years)

	Don't forget Demetrius Calip, who played a few games for the LA Lakers
	early this past season.

>It doesn't seem that SU was *clearly* the most talented team (they may have 
>benn), so saying so and so had 4 NBAers, why couldn't they win isn't fair
>to the teams.

	Actually, SU did have 4 1/2 NBAers -- Stevie Thompson was picked up
	late in the year by the Sacramento Kings.  He played his 1st season
	out of college in the CBA, and was promptly named player of the year.

	Jazzy J	
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Grant Hill
Date: 15 Sep 92 11:36:49 GMT
Reply-To: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Organization: Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center

% trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH) writes:

% Grant Hill is certainly an excellent player with unlimited potential.
       [text deleted]
% Most of all, he sometimes shows a lack of aggression on the court, 
% a "killer instinct", if you will.  To some degree, he may have been 
% deferring to other players on that team.....

I think you may be confusing "killer instinct" with "aggression."
And that aggressiveness does not necessarily make a player better;  
it is a sure way of getting the player into foul trouble and ruining 
his team's chances of victory.

Grant Hill is more of a "finess" player, not a "physically strong" player.
He uses his polished skills to score and defend rather than his physical 
strength (if he has any).  Of course, his height and speed help a lot.

A characteristic of an aggressive player is his tendency to foul out
of games; that is something we don't want to see in a star player.

Grant's offensive and defensive skills were very impressive in the Final 
Four championship game against Michigan.  Hill certainly had the killer 
instinct as he drove in for layups during the crucial time near the 
end of the game that resulted in Duke's big victory margin.  What more
could you ask of him?


---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Steve Williams                           swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: brule@lynx.cat.syr.edu (Mark R. Brule)
Subject: Syracuse Stars (was Re: Shaq's impact)
Organization: Coherent Research, Inc.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 11:56:30 EDT

In article <1992Sep8.205544.21371@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.161505.25508@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> timlin@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Timlin) writes:
>>gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney) writes:
>>
>>>I seem to remember a certain team (Syracuse) that had at a time anywhere
>>>from 2-4 very good NBA players.  On the team with 4 NBA players, if I
>>>remember correctly it didn't get past the second round of the tourney.


>		Seasons in college
>Player		85-86	86-87	87-88	88-89	89-90	90-91
>Stevie Thompson		  	  Y	  Y	  Y	  Y
>Sherman Douglas	  	  Y	  Y	  Y	  Y
>Ronnie Seikaly 	  Y	  Y	  Y	  Y
>Billy Owens			  	  Y	  Y	  Y
>Derrick Coleman	  	  Y	  Y	  Y	  Y
>   NBA  Players	  1	  3	  3	  4	  3	  1
>   NCAA	Players	  1	  3	  4	  5	  4	  2
>

This table is close, but the five players above never actually played
together on the same team:

                Seasons in college
Player          85-86   86-87   87-88   88-89   89-90   90-91
Stevie Thompson           Y       Y       Y       Y
Sherman Douglas   Y       Y       Y       Y        
Rony Seikaly      Y       Y       Y
Billy Owens                               Y       Y       Y
Derrick Coleman           Y       Y       Y       Y

The '88 team (the year after appearing in the National Championship
game) was a disappointment.  I seem to recall a 2nd or 3rd round
exit that year.  The '89 team lost to a (good) Illini team in the
regional final.

 __  __   __  __
|  ||  | |  ||  |  __/______________________________________________________
|  |\__/ |  |\__/ __ \        
|  | __  |  |    |  | \  Mark R. Brule                 EMAIL:   mark@cri.com
|  ||  | |  |    |  |    Coherent Research, Inc.       VOICE: (315) 433-1010
\__/\__/ \__/    \__/    Syracuse, NY  13057           FACS : (315) 433-0070
From: jb118@prism.gatech.EDU (Jeffrey N. Burch)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Morte Livingston
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:23:32 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute -- EOL

In article <1992Sep7.230550.10378@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> kbowers@esrc1.uucp (Ken Bowers) writes:
>
>When was "long ago?" Who are these students you're talking about?

Prior to the explosion of television coverage.  I'd put that in the 
1970s, when cable became big and there were more than just ABC, NBC,
and CBS covering sports.  And the students I was referring to (the
athletes) were those at just about every major football or basketball
power.  Just check their rosters and you'll see how many folks came
from out of state.

>I suppose it may be more fashionable to talk publicly about being
>devoted to your family today than it was in, say, 1968. I doubt 
>there's been much of a change in how far people go away to school,
>though. I bet the majority of people have always stayed pretty close 
>to home. 

I don't think this is true prior to the "television revolution", at
least in some sports.  Back in the 1970s (or earlier),  a handful of
programs got most of the good players, from all over the country.
Michigan and Ohio State (the Big 2) dominated the little 8.  It was
almost always Nebraska and Oklahoma in the Big Eight.  Kentucky ruled
the SEC in basketball, and UCLA was on a tear for many years, winning
it all.  These schools recruited nationally, and often didn't have to
worry about the competition from so-called "lesser" in-state schools.

Now that television covers so many games, and there are limits on
scholarship offers, which spreads the talent around, kids can afford
to stay close to home and still get good press.

>More schools have a shot at national prominance in football and 
>basketball, however, so the situation has changed for elite 
>athletes; a single star can help bring a school to the top, because the
>talent is more evenly distributed. 

I still think this is more true in basketball than in football, though.
One man on a five man team which plays both offense and defense has more
of an impact that one man on an eleven man team, which plays only offense,
defense, or special teams.  And again, I think your statement about the
ability to receive national attention stems largely from expanded TV, 
which enabled them to stay at home.  Not the other way around, IMHO.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^  Dr. J(effrey Neil Burch)                 jb118@prism.gatech.edu    ^
^  Georgia Tech Research Institute                                    ^ 
^  Electro-Optics and Physical Sciences Laboratory                    ^ 
^  Atlanta, Ga.                                                       ^
^  30332                  Wildcats are perfect, the e-pit-o-me,       ^
^  404-894-3628        of good looks and grace,  and quiet dignity.   ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: jlindqui@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (A Conrad Bain Wanna-Be)
Subject: Re: Rashard Griffith (Purdue? Wisconsin?)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:24:24 GMT

saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders) writes:

>Well, I saw a little blurb in the paper today about this 7'0" center from
>Chicago named Rashard Griffith.  I think he's a senior, but I'm not sure.

Yeah, he's a senior from King H.S. down on the South Side.  Of course, he's
like most of what comes off Landon "Sonny.  No, really!  Call me Sonny!
Dammit!  I wanna be called Sonny!  It was the officials' fault!  Call me Sonny!"
Cox's squad.  Good talent, lousy attitude.  If somebody can turn him around,
he'll be an asset somewhere, but otherwise...

>Anyway, he has narrowed his choices to Wisconsin, Purdue, Michigan, and
>Ohio State.  He like Wisconsin because there are *no* big men, and he would
>definitely make an immediate impact.

Well thank God he ain't thinkin' bout us here in Champaign!  We don't need him
here!

>Any info on this guy?  Or is he a stiff, and am I wasting my time
>discussing him?

Brian, he's a stiff.  Forget him.
-- 
Jason A. Lindquist		University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
linky@uiuc.edu
				ux4 1>ping james_brown
				james_brown is dead.
From: lange@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Trent Lange)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: NCAA All-time leaders
Date: 12 Sep 92 01:14:32 GMT
Organization: UCLA Artificial Intelligence Laboratory


In article <68008@hydra.gatech.EDU> jb118@prism.gatech.EDU (Jeffrey N. Burch) writes:
>In article <matthew.716225068@base.cs.ucla.edu> matthew@base.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher) writes:
>>...
>>I don't know.  Trent would say that 1973 was the final year of 
>>  THE GREATEST DOMINATION OF ANY SPORT KNOWN TO MANKIND(*)!
>>
>>And you call yourself a college basketball fan.  Sheesh.
>
>Of course Trent would.  There are some who would say the Roman Empire
>was great too, but most of the rest of us have already moved into
>the Modern Age, and left certain unnamed schools in the dust.  Super
>sheesh!

And you would deny that the Roman Empire was one of the greatest and
longest-lived in the history of the Western World?

And notice, for ye' who might be quick try to falsely complete the
analogy and point out that the Roman Empire is dead -- this is true,
but the Bruins Still Live On, and will RISE AGAIN at the time They
so deem appropriate.

- Trent Lange
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Rashard Griffith (Purdue? Wisconsin?)
Date: 13 Sep 92 22:12:13 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders) writes:

>Well, I saw a little blurb in the paper today about this 7'0" center from
>Chicago named Rashard Griffith.  I think he's a senior, but I'm not sure.

>Any info on this guy?  Or is he a stiff, and am I wasting my time
>discussing him?

	Rashard Griffith is indeed a senior -- and, he's considered to be
	the best prospect EVER to come out of Chicago.  He's certainly not
	a stiff, and he's simply a stud.  He's very mobile, and moves around
	like a cat.  He has great offensive skills, and he can block shots
	with the best of them.  He's been highly recruited since he was
	a sophomore -- and played on the #1 King team 2 years ago, with
	Jamie Brandon and Johnnie Selvie.  If you're thinking of a stiff,
	U might be thinking of his 7'4" teammate, Thomas Hamilton.  The
	guy shoots 3-pters!  However, he is also about 300 pounds and he
	looks even heavier.

	Anyways, whoever lands Griffith surely will get a gem...

	Jazzy J
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: wardrb@cs.utexas.edu (Richard Byron Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Shaq's impact
Date: 7 Sep 1992 10:53:57 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep7.152926.4389@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney) writes:
|
|I seem to remember Ewing being upset by one Eddie Pinckney and Harold
|Pressey (?) neither of whom put together is his equal.
|
"neither of whom put together"?  Anyway, it was my impression that
Pinckney outplayed or neutralized Ewing in every game that they
played against eachother (and there were alot of games).  Eddie was
a great college player and he matched up extremely well against
Ewing.  Imagine how much better he would have been in college if
he could have played his natural position of power forward!

Rick
From: gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Necessity of a Big Man
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:30:30 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA
Originator: gharris@jade.tufts.edu

In article <1992Sep9.030710.7498@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> dew6c@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Dallas E. Wrege) writes:
>All of this talk about Shaq and Sampson has got me thinking about big men
>in general, and so I'm going to put my two cents in.  I claim that if a
>team doesn't have a (1) HUGE and (2) AGGRESSIVE guy at center, their road
>ends in the first game of the Final Four.

	I've got two words for you:  Duke University.  Laettner may be 
aggressive, but he's not huge.    In 1986, their center was Jay Bilas
who could best be described as workmanlike, and they got to the final
game.  Look at NCState in '83, Cozell McQueen was the center.  A big,
aggressive center is nice, but hardly a necessity to win a title.

>	- Dallas

--
gharris@jade.tufts.edu          "She had ever chance for happiness, ever 
George W. Harris                chance in the world, and stomped ever one 
Dept. of Mathematics            of them chances down in the dirt like a 
Tufts University                bug."   _The Devil's Dream_
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: statesse@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Scott E States)
Subject: Indiana?
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:26:15 GMT


Any Hoosier fans out there?  How do the prospects for this season look?  Can  
Bobby take his boys to the Final Four again?  Another banner would like look  
nice hanging in Assembly Hall.  Maybe two if they can hold off Michigan for the  
Big 10 title...

Scott E. States
statesse@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
From: gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: The Sweet Sixteen...
Keywords: 16, 1993
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:43:18 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA
Originator: gharris@jade.tufts.edu

In article <markts.716139742@mcl> markts@mcl.ucsb.edu (Mark T. Schmidt) writes:
>Well, Duke fans are already making the rest of us sick with
>their boasting and predictions of the coming year's hoop
>season. So it must be time for the rest of us to put our
>necks on the line and try to make realistic predictions.
>(Although I sadly admit that the Duke predictions are not
>very unrealistic |()
>
>[predictions deleted]
>
>A blue demon 3-peat would make me sick.
	
	Well, it would surprise me no end, especially since DePaul didn't
win the tournament the last two years...

>mark.
--
gharris@jade.tufts.edu          "She had ever chance for happiness, ever 
George W. Harris                chance in the world, and stomped ever one 
Dept. of Mathematics            of them chances down in the dirt like a 
Tufts University                bug."   _The Devil's Dream_
From: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Necessity of a Big Man
Date: 12 Sep 92 18:57:16 GMT
Reply-To: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

In article <68058@hydra.gatech.EDU>, jb118@prism.gatech.EDU (Jeffrey N. Burch) writes:
>Either Pelphrey and Feldhaus didn't hear his instructions over the 
>tremendous noise being generated at the Spectrum, or they misunderstood 
>the play.  

  The play from Coach K was as follows.  Laettner was the #1 option.  T.Hill
was to run up the left side as option #2 if Laettner couldn't catch it cleanly,
and it would be tipped to him instead.  Hurley was at midcourt if #1 or #2 
failed, poised for a desperation shot.  Lang was to run to the basket for a
possible tip-in.  
  Of course, since there were no tall players, there was no one who could 
really disrupt Grant Hill's throw.  They had one man on everyone else but
Laettner.
  If Pelphery or Feldhaus had stepped in front of the pass, or were just in 
front of Laettner, they might have been able to tip it.  But considering how
high it was thrown, and the relative non-leaping abilities of Feldhaus and
Pelphery, they might not have been able to tip it. 

>Kentucky had no one taller than 6'9" still left in the game (6'9"
>Timberlake and 6'8" Mashburn had fouled out).  Pitino put 6'9"

I think you mean Gimel Martinez here.  Timberlake was also a freshman, and
had a foul or two already.  But putting someone on Hill would have left 
Laettner with only one man on him, who was much shorter.  There are really
a lot of ifs here, and I think that Pitino doesn't really deserve to be
second guessed here.  He got a lot out of his players.
 
Robert Clough, DUMC (though certainly not speaking for them)
     "In the future, there will be fewer, but better, Russians"--J. Stalin
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: jfw1@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (james.f.whitehead)
Subject: Re: Villanova Schedule
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:47:33 GMT


So how come UNLV's not on the schedule? Seems like a natural,
somehow.

Jim Whitehead
"who cares"
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: UMASS - 1993
Date: 14 Sep 92 02:40:28 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <18416.2ab32c6b@ecs.umass.edu>, granowit@ecs.umass.edu writes:
> 
> February.  The last game at the Cage will be a midnight game.  All of us
> here at UMASS missed you gArY!  Hopefully you won't run away from the vax
> this year.  Cheers for ETSU!!!

 My VAX? VAX? Geez - things must be tough in the ol Bay state. Still
working on VAX machines? But hey, you are only an engineer - I suppose
you need no better....


			gln
From: sjc@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Chapin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Some Purdue Notes
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:13:31 GMT
	<1992Sep14.114034.14101@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

}} In article <1992Sep14.114034.14101@doug.cae.wisc.edu> saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders) writes:
}} 
}} Hah!  CS classes?  Chapin, are you posting while not having slept in over
}} 24 hours again?

Uh, actually, yes, I was.

sjc@cs.purdue.edu               Steve Chapin           Today's Grammar Lesson:
   Brake your bike before the wall, or you'll break your bike upon the wall!

             If I don't want it in my back yard, I don't want it.
From: jb118@prism.gatech.EDU (Jeffrey N. Burch)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Ronnie Henderson to sign with LSU
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:16:31 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute -- EOL

In article <dkm2.716593664@Isis.MsState.Edu> dkm2@ra.msstate.edu (David K. Magee) writes:
>Today's Clairon Ledger (Jackson, MS newspaper) reports that Murrah High School
>star guard Ronnie Henderson will announce Wednesday he will attend LSU.  
>
>...
>Folks- you can criticize Dale Brown all you want, but he is going to have the best two guards in the nation next year.

Maybe, but that sure won't stop Dale ___________________  (you fill in
the blank).    :-)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^  Dr. J(effrey Neil Burch)                 jb118@prism.gatech.edu    ^
^  Georgia Tech Research Institute                                    ^ 
^  Electro-Optics and Physical Sciences Laboratory                    ^
^  Atlanta, Georgia                                                   ^
^  30332           Some are born mundane, some achieve mundaneness,   ^
^  404-894-3628       and some have mundaneness thrust upon them.     ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college