From: indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM ()
Subject: Re: RSS (AYODHYA: Excerpts from a History Research Book)
Originator: indu@iss700
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 92 17:15:15 GMT

                    RAMA JANMA BHOOMI - Babri Construction


>Article: 83473 of soc.culture.indian
>From: g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh)
>Subject: Re: RJB-BS dispute (RE: RSS etc....)
>
>DXA4@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>
>>Here, I am referring to Supereme Court order only. Shah Bano's case was decided
>>in supereme court only after several years' litigation in the local court at
>>Bhopal. And this judgement was annuled by an enactment in the Parliament at
>>the pressure from Muslim fundamentalists led by Mr. Shahabudding on the plea
>>that the judgement was against the tenets of Quran. Also, Shahabuddin and Co.
>>did not appeal in Supreme Court against Faizabad court's arder to open the
>>locks of the disputed shrine, but they went ahead and formed the BMCC with the
>>primary aim of getting the court order reversed, not through the Supreme Court
>>but through political pressure as was successfully done in the Shah Bano case.
>>Bukhari et al. have also made the above announcement in reference to the
>>possible "Supreme Court's" judgement going against muslims in the RJB-BM
>>dispute.
>
>>Dinesh Agrawal...
>
>
>
>G.O.I. (Specially Rajiv Gandhi & Co.) came under the fundamentalist force
>It should be remembered Shahbano case was an internal matter of one religion.
>If the people of that religion wish to live in 6th century's rule than it is 
>their choice.
   ADIL! This is where HINDUISM differs from other other walks of life.
   If some people of a religion intend to live in some 6th Century or even at a 
   Pre-Historic age it is fine. IT IS THEIR P{ERSONAL CHOICE.

   But that does not give them any right over 
   other individuals of their own religion and decide for those individuals.
   RELIGION in Hinduism is a persons PERSONAL CHOICE and which is not bound 
   to any rules of any majority. And which does not and should not interfere 
   with any other persons personal choice.

   And HINDUISM does not tolerate powerful exploiting powerless, especially 
   if it were a WOMAN (any age), OLD , ABANDONED (anathas). 
   IT IS A SOCIETY WHERE AN INDIVIDUAL HAS A RIGHT TO LIVE FREELY following 
   religion depending upon his individual taste, WHILE FOLLOWING THE RASHTRA
   DHARMA (the principles of the NATION). It is here HINDUS are more concerned
   about some religious bigots and their Venomous intentions. 

   (* If some group of Individuals want to live in 6th century, let them lock
    themselves in some "religious place" and screw themselves up. THEY SHOULD
    not interfere with society and its NATURE. Actually it is in the interest of
    the society these fellows should be chatised. As you have seen, for the 
    first time Javed Habib talks in terms of India and Pro-India. He should 
    now also start to condemn all the anti-nationals like Imam Abdullah Bukhari. 
    I wonder why he has not yet condemned all those 
       who had given the call to Boycott Republic day of India, 
       who had burnt the Indian Constitution, 
       Who had subverted the Supreme Court's Judgement and built political 
         pressure on a weak (morally) government. 
   Basically he should start his assimilation with condemning of Invaders on 
   India. And he should thus retrace his his every anti-national step.

    And what are his views on Muslim Fundamnetalists, on Imam Bukhari ignoring
    court orders, support for Militancy in Jama Masjid? If he just  stops at 
    condemning Pakistans Interference then it will be percieved as
    "SINCE THE NATION IS WATCHING EVERY STEP AND HOW IT WAS  KEPT IN 
     IGNORANCE, If THESE FELLOWS DONOT CONDEMN IT THEN JUNTA WILL KNOW THEIR
     TRUE COLOR". 

     IT IS A REACTION, NOT AN ACTION.  We should not appreciate reactionary
     nationalism. Nationalism whether reactionary or not is fine. But 
     reactionary NATIONALISM  is temporary. We need more devotion to a nation
     from any individual, especially those who claim themselves as leaders.
   

     So IN ORDER TO DIVERT THE ATTENTION FROM THEIR MIS-DEEDS 
     He would have given that statement. If he extends this
     "nationalist upsurge" to all those incidents, then he can start his 
     nationalist life, afresh.

    Hope I gave you the reply for the other article too!   *).

 *******************************************************************
      The other day while I was going thru some BOOKs to learn some thing on 
      this  subject I found some thing, which I reproduce -verbatim- .
      The following is extracted from a History Research Text Book.

Book: THE HISTORY AND CULTURE OF INDIAN PEOPLE:  MUGHAL EMPIRE
      Vol VII, 1974 edition
      p.p 306-307

      General Editor R.C. Mazumdar
      Vice President Intn'l Commission for a History of the scientific and 
         cultural development of Mankind set up by UNESCO.
      Hon'ble fellow of ASIATIC Society
      Hon'ble fellow of ROYAL ASIATIC Society
      Former Vice-Chancellor of Univ. of DACCA
      Visting Prof. of Indian History, Univ. of Chicago, Univ. of Pennsylvania


     ....
     GURU NANAK was also an eye witness to the treatment meted out to the 
     people by BABUR when he Invaded INDIA. Nanak was at Syyidpur (EMINABAD), 
     80 km from lahore in the Gujranwala Dist. Babur ordered a general massacre
     of the people and thousands were taken prisoners. The barbarious treatment 
     of prisoners at camp, particularly woment broke the tender heart of NANAK.
     In his agony, he took god to task:
       "THOU! O Creator of all things
        takest to thyself no blame
        thou has sent YAMA as the <...> Moghul Babar
        terrible was the slaughter
        loud were the cries of lamenters
        did not awaken pity in thee! O Lord?
        ...."
    BABUR exempted muslims from payment of stamp duty which Hindus alone paid.
    His officers demolished Hindu temples and constructed mosques in their 
    places at SAMBHAL, CHANDERI, AYODHYA and broke to pieces JAIN Idols at Urva
    near Gwalior.
  

   Ref: Tuzuk-i-Baburi, II.340
        ASI, XII 26-7
        Memoirs of Babur, II-340
 *******************************************************************

>While the RJB-BM clash is based on two religion's faith, fact, lies, proof,

   How come you left out History, crusades, barbarianism, 
   muslim-vote-banks-and-their-black-mail, and many other factors? 

>propaganda, fundamentalist idea,and yes the most important thing
>TO DISMENTAL THE SECULARISM(whatever little bit has remained)
> IN THE COUNTRY WHICH WAS CREATED  AS SECULAR NATION.
>
   Again you are mistaken.  IT IS NOT A CLASH BETWEEN TWO RELIGIONS. RELIGIOUS 
   CLASHES ARE BETWEEN TWO RELIGIONS. (ISLAM is a religion, where as Hinduism is
   a way of life).
         AND THIS IS NOT BASED ON TWO RELIGIOUS FAITHs. 
   IT IS BASED on a fundamentalist attidtude of 
   why-should-we-assimilate-in-this-society. IT IS CLASH BETWEEN NATIONALIST 
   FORCES AND Anti-NATIONALS. THESE ANTI-NATIONALS are so crooked, they are even
   ready to take their own people back to "sixth Century" for their selfish
   fanatic motives. DOES THEIR COMMUNITY DEVELOP IN SUCH CIRCUMSTANCES. 
   (* If a socalled-us-educated person like you think on these lines, what 
    to think of an illiterate-poor muslim, who has been constatntly brainwashed
    in madarasaas ny these leaders. IT IS IN THE INTEREST OF THESE MUSLIMS,
    THE NATION SHOULD STEP FORWARD, very unfortunately due to weak governance,
    which has not happened so far).

   COMING TO FACTS NOW 
    as I had already told in my previous postings on this issue WHAT ARE THESE
    FACTS. AND DID YOU EVER  CARE TO GO TO THE LIBRARY TO VERIFY THESE FACTS.
    CAN YOU QUOTE ANY HISTORICAL PROOF? LET US TAKE AVERAGE United States 
    UNIVERSITY LIBRARY.

    WHETHER YOU CONCEDE ARE NOT, BABUR was a Mughal INVADER. He INVADED INDIA.
    HE BROUGHT RUIN TO ITS GREAT CULTURE (what happens when a barbarian who is 
    not exposed any civilisation and has brute power. He thinks in his own
    terms. Unfortunately present day's Muslim Fundamentalists are in the 
    same state of affairs. This time the society has started its vigilance).
    And brought destruction to THREE-THOUSAND temples. AND CONSTRUCTED HIS OWN
    MONUMENTS. IT IS THESE MONUMENTS WHICH NEED TO BE BROUGHT DOWN. AND HAS 
    STARTED DIVERTING his own religion people, whom he created by coneverting
    Hindus again at-the-edge-of-the-sword. So what to say of his "Philanthropic"
    intentions in entering AYODHYA.

    AND SECULARISM and if I understood you right, DISMANTLING it : If it is this
    type of Barbarian-and-Blackmailing secularism you are inbtrersted in, I'm 
    sorry. I appreciate those who atleast intend to Dismantle it. And you can be
    convinced that a discussion on this PSEUDO-SECULARISTS AND THEIR SECULARISM
    has started. IT IS GOOD SIGN OF GROWTH, and Enlightenment.

    CREATION AS SECULAR STATE, IT IS NOT THIS secularist-state which existed 
    thru out the history. This state of affairs has started very recently, 
    and is being checked now, though very late.
    
     
>Bye
>Adil

 AND ADIL IF YOU ARE REALLY INTENDING TO KNOW THE TRUTH, THAN FISHING FOR 
 A CONTROVERSY, WHAT IS THAT YOU HAVE DONE IN THIS ASPECT? There were atleast
 Hundred articles posted on this subject.What are the historical facts you 
 and our Converted-Hindu brothers Javed and Muhammed Ahmad have learnt?
 Are you seriously interested in truth or trying to make a punch-line, sort
 of Psychology where you are more satisfied with your single-line posting,
 rather than knowing truth itself and trying to absorb it?

 MY INTENTION IS NOT TO HURT YOU OR PROVOKE YOU. BUT I HAD POSTED QUITE A FEW
 ARTICLES. ALSO I HAVE SEEN ARTICLES POSTED ON THE SAME SUBJECT, WHERE 
 DIFFERENT FACTS OF HISTORY, AND CURRENT EVENTS ARE PROVIDED. IF YOU 
 SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE, BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THEN
 WHAT IS THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO PROVE? WHAT YOU WANT TO PROVE?  

 Stay cool :) 
   If you are younger to me,
       Arre Bhai! tumhara pahechan Khoj lo!
   else Bhai Jan! Apna PAHECHAN KOJ LEE JI YEAH!

 AAP BHI BHARAT KE AEK ANG HAI! Isse AAP CANCEROUS BANAIYE MAT! 
 ERADICATION OF SUCH MALADIES ARE ALSO PAINFUL, to BOTH.



-Indu.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  The views expressed above are on my personal basis.                 |
|  No Group or  Organization   can be held responsible                 |
|                                ( for those in quest of truth .......)|
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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