From: hrose@eff.org (Helen Trillian Rose)
Subject: Re: Drinking and the MBTA was Re: Sunday Liquor Sales
Organization: The Evil Fascist IRC Admins From Hell, Inc.
	<BETSYS.92Dec15150940@ra.cs.umb.edu>
	<HROSE.92Dec15171338@rocza.eff.org> <1glr2uINN7q@early-bird.think.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:03:04 GMT

Sean> == Sean Colbath <sean@think.com> 

 Sean> In article <HROSE.92Dec15171338@rocza.eff.org> hrose@eff.org (Helen Trillian Rose) writes:
>Betsy> == Elizabeth Schwartz <betsys@cs.umb.edu> 
>I dunno where "The Paradise" is, but last trains leave Park St at
>12:45am. (red and green lines). Any MBTA person can tell you this (call
>722-3200 if you don't believe me). They leave at 12:45 *on the nose*.

 Sean> I'm not sure that's true.  I recently started green-line
 Sean> commuting, and was suprised to find out that the last D train
 Sean> left Park Street at 12:05 or some such nonsense.  I think the
 Sean> last one from the *other end* (riverside) started heading inbound
 Sean> at around 12:30 or so.  It depends on the line.  Which means, of
 Sean> course, that if I'm working late I have to leave by
 Sean> 11:30-11:40ish to make a connection.

To quote from "Cara Free in Boston" (published by the Association for
Public Transportation, $5.75 from reputable book sellers, including Out
of Town News in Harvard Square):

        Except Red Line trains to Braintree, the last trains on all
        lines wait at Park Street, Government Center, and Downtown
        Crossing for the last trains on connecting lines, so riders can
        transfer between lines.

        The last trains to all Green Line and Red Line destinations
        (except Braintree) leave Park Street at 12:45am. Last trains on
        the Blue and Orange lines depart Government Center and Downtown
        Crossing after the arrival of the last trains from Park Street.

        Buses scheduled to leave subway stations after 12:45 am wait for
        the last train before departing.

They then go on to give a nice list of trains (by line, including all of
the Green Line branches) and the first and last train times from each
end. 

I'd recommend the book. It's taught me a great deal about the public
transportation around here.

I might note that I know it's 12:45 by practice and not only by theory.
I've been on last trains on almost all lines (except the orange line
southbound) as well as sitting waiting for last trains to arrive so the
connecting buses could leave. 
        
>In my last-bus trips from Lechmere (1am) I've talked to many a driver
>about this. They all say the same thing. If they had to work past 1am
>they'd want double wages. There's a certain "threshold" where they still
>consider it reasonable to work for "normal" pay and 1am is just pushing
>the limits.

 Sean> Maybe this is just because of the unions, but why should they get
 Sean> double wages?  Obviously, I'm not making the decision, but there
 Sean> are plenty of other three-shift jobs, and I can't think of too
 Sean> many where the graveyard people get double.  For many of them
 Sean> they only get a shift differential, assuming that that's the
 Sean> person's normal working shift (in other words, 40hrs a week, with
 Sean> those 40 hours just happening to be at night).

Well, *usually* if you work third shift you're in a relatively safe
building. Even my Dad (who runs a machine shop) and has a third shift is
safer than being out on the Boston streets. Hell, I was just over at the
Cambridgeside Mall at 8pm and there was gang activity there. How would
it be at 3am? On some bus routes they've had to add MBTA Cops to keep
the crime rate down.

> Plus, if you kept the T running, you'd have to have 
>(1) token sellers in each and every station, two in ones that don't
>connect over (like Kendall).
>(2) inspectors on the platform. more people who have been drinking makes
>it more likely that people will be "misbehaving".
>(3) dispatchers to direct the trains (they don't go by themselves)
>
>etc, etc, etc. This, for Boston, who has the lowest subway fare of any
>major city in the country. How much does the NYC Subway cost nowadays?

 Sean> Maybe that's part of the problem.  Perhaps if the subway cost was
 Sean> more in line with reality, the service would be too.  Does the T
 Sean> operate at a loss?  I think so (can't remember).

If the cost was more in line with reality they'd have to cut service
back sooooo far because they'd be losing riders to the high prices. It's
a catch-22. They'd be losing money quickly.

--Helen
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