From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kippah
Date: 17 Nov 1992 21:06:12 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <goldberg.721982303@techunix.technion.ac.il> goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg) writes:
>     Thank you for this opportunity to again apologize for my very poor
>English or obscure thinking which too often make it difficult to understand
>my writings.
>     I was asking for a source saying that current custom (in general?) is
>derived from the Babylonian tradition; indeed I had the possibly wrong feeling
>from your post that you would take it as a granted starting point that current
>custom for Jewish tradition is the Babylonian tradition. I was further asking
>if Babylonian tradition is at the origin of raising the Torah scroll before or
>after the reading. The point was, since some communities raise before reading,
>others after reading, what was the Babylonian tradition, if any? Furthermore,
>if there is a rule that current tradition is the Babylonian tradition, are
>there more such apparent exceptions to such a rule? If there are many, can such
>a rule still be used the way you suggest?
>      My question had nothing to do, directly, with the kippah issue. Just as
>you asked for a source, on the ground that custom come from Babylonian
>tradition, I asked for a source that custom indeed come from there. 
>
>>Jack Love
>      Yaaqov Goldberg

Thanks very much for your clarification, Yaaqov. Someone had already
privately notified me of your intent, and I posted a bit more,
including a fairly specific citation to Lauterbach earlier this
morning. Perhaps as you go through the rest the material you will
get to this follow-up.

I confess I do not know the origin, within the framework of the
synagogue service, of the order of hagba'ah. But as a general
principle, we begin with the understanding that virtually all
current customs, whether Ashkenazi or Sephardi, are derived from
some part of the Babylonian tradition. The reason for this is
that for the most part, the Babylonian tradition was the "winner"
by dint of outlasting the major Palestinian Jewish communities.
Like all such principles, there are many caveats, "gotchas", 
etc. We know that during various periods before 450 C.E. that
there was significant bi-directional traffic between the 
major religious centers. Therefore, one cannot rule out 
some Palestinian customs being transmitted to Jewish 
communities after the demise of the Palestinian centers. As
an obvious example, the Palestinian Talmud did survive and
was studied by subsequent generations of Jews who traced most
of their traditions to the Babylonian diaspora.

So, it is appropriate to ask, if both Ashkenazi and Sephardi
traditions are primarily descended from the Babylonian 
traditions, what could account for the differences? I do not
want to self-appoint myself as an expert in such questions. But
my guess is that first of all, there are known differences in
tradtions among the major Babylonian centers, Pum Beditha, 
Sura, Mata Mahesia, etc. Second, diversions in traditions must
have occurred elsewhere in the diaspora and subsequent to the
decline of Babylonian Jewry.

I hope this helps, and my apologies regarding the specific 
question of hagba'ah. Perhaps someone else on the Net can
add to this.

Jack F. Love


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish