HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei)
Subject: Re: La Lakers
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:43:25 GMT

In article <1h7m2eINNj3g@news.aero.org> robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger) writes:
>
>OK, I guess I can say *one* nice thing about Scott: it's true that
>his game has survived - maybe even flourished - with Magic's departure,
>while Worthy's game is hurting BIGTIME in the absense of Magic. I
>don't attribute this to attitude, guts, intensity, or any other
>intangible. I attribute it to the fact that Worthy used to get ALOT 
>of his points by breaking free near the hoop for about a nanosecond - 
>more than enough time for the Laker's alltime brilliant 6'9" point
>guard to see him over the defense and rifle the ball to him without
>looking. As great as Sedale is, he's not 6'9" and can't see over 
>the D, and NO ONE else EVER in the game could thread the needle the
>way Magic did. Magic got Worthy his points based on Worthy seeing
>an Angstrom unit of daylight under the hoop; Magic got Scott his
>points in much the same way Scott gets his points now: getting the
>ball to Scott on the wing when he's unguarded and from where he'd
>hit the open jumper........sometimes :-)

How does that work?  Although Magic's departure should have an effect on
everyone's game, it doesn't explain why Worthy is shooting so badly this year.
Basically, I think it was Scott and Divac who probably suffered the most from
Magic's absence.  In his early days, Worthy got a lot of points off of the
break, so that's when Magic counted.  But in recent years, all someone had to
do was pass him the ball in the post.  Worthy backed his way to 55% shooting
one year with basically a low post game.  Last year, he shot 45 or 46%,
which could reflect Magic's absence, but this year's 40% is definitely other
factors.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: chettri@huey.udel.edu (Expressio Veri)
Subject: Re: La Lakers
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 16:19:08 GMT

In article <42837@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> kompella@cs.ucsd.edu (Vachaspathi Kompella) writes:
>
>
>Oh so Kareem is not a good passer, huh?  What makes a good passer as far
>as a center goes?  I don't have the figures, only memories, so I can't
>argue this point, but Kareem didn't have to put up Magic's numbers to
>be a good passer.  He just had to have the outside threat to passs to to take
>some double team pressure off him.  I think he did that much and more.  Maybe
>I'm talking through my hat, but that's what it looked like to me.  Again,
>remember that an assist isn't my definition of a good passer.  It's knowing
>when to throw the pass, and to whom.  Game plans are built on multiple passes.
>And when you have a Magic who can pass real well, well, get him the ball,
>and he'll deliver.
>

Magic has approx 9,900 career assists and Kareem 5,500 (or thereabouts).
So, even though Kareem had many more years in the NBA than Magic, he
has to be considered to be a decent passer. Also remember that Kareem
hardly handled the ball and wasn't a top of the key type of centre
like Laimbeer or even Divac, so most of his passes were out of the
low post while being double or triple teamed. 

Samir
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: kolli@seas.gwu.edu (Chakravarthy Kolli)
Subject: Re: 86 Celtics v. 92 Bulls
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 03:55:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.015833.10454@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
>In article <1992Dec20.134346.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> bcimmet@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>>In regards to the questions involving the 91-92 Bulls and the 85-86 Celtics, I
>>went home and used a statistical program I have for my computer that can
>>simulate games between any teams. I had it play 100 games between the 92 Bulls
>>and the 86 Celtics. Bulls won the series 54-46. Jordan averaged about 27 ppg.
>>Others for the Bulls were Pippen, 20 ppg, Grant, 13, Armstrong, 8, Paxson,5.
>>Those were the top scorers. For the Celtics, Bird 22, McHale, 21, Parish 16,
>>Johnson 13, Walton 6. The stats that came out aren't precise to the season
>
>Huh...that's not what I would expect at all.  The Celtics of that year have got
>to be one of the all-time greatest teams of all time.  Even after they were
>devastated a year later with injuries, they still won 59 (and they won 67 in
>'85-'86).  They were #1 in defensive FG% and #1 in rebounding and they lost
>only one homecourt game the entire season.  Plus, where's Danny Ainge and
>Scott Wedman in those stats?
>
>Those Celtics could really play the D...DJ and McHale were all-defensive
>players, and now everyone has visions of all of those guys getting killed off
>of the dribble.  Even Bird was an ok defender.  I can't see him getting held
>down to 22 ppg, and I can't see anyone stopping McHale.
>

I am surprised with your analysis. I don't think the 1992 Bulls were as bad
as you seem to put it.

Jordan is basically 2 VERY GOOD offensive players and 2 VERY GOOD defensive 
players put in one.

At his prime Bird was 2 VERY GOOD offensive players and 1 GOOD defensive
player put in one.

Eventhough Mchale was a good offensive player I think the chicago
frontline defense could have reduced his effectiveness. Don't go
by stats, as he could have done much better with other teams.

The rest cancel out and the bences weren't that far apart in talent
The Bulls have a clear advantage defensively and don't forget that defensively the
chicago bench was much better than that of the 85-86 celtics.

And don't forget this
Sometime during those years ( i don't remember the exact year-- 87?) Jordan scored
63 points in Boston. It clearly tells you that none of the Boston guards 
could control him.

Clearly the 91-92 Bulls were a much better team and the difference could be 
due to better defense

chak kolli
From: hal@mivax.mc.duke.edu (HAL)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: What is the scoop on Laetner?
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:05:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Duke University Medical Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Dec29.192620.18249@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, wine@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (edward.j.winemiller) writes...
> 
>	I have recently been reading in the local rag (The Columbus Dispatch)
>that there is alot of ill feelings surfacing on the Minnesota Timberwolves
>team regarding Christian Laetner. What gives? 

From what I read in the Durham papers it seems that Chuck Person, Michael
Williams, and Doug West are feeling that Laettner is playing selfishly.  There
was a play in the game with the Hawks (I was watching it) where Laettner stole
the ball at half court and stumbled a little bit and then went in for the dunk
on his own.  Doug West was supposedly wide open under the basket.  (Actually he
was wide open on the wing)  Doug and the others took offense at this selfish
play.  It looked like a needless extra pass to me he just dribbled in and
dunked it.  Williams is the one they should be ragging on with his 2-11
shooting performance.  Laettner was 11-15 give him the rock, Baby! 

I think the real reason they are mad at Laettner is because he is starting to
get the superstar call.  He was walking all over the place and it wasn't being
called.  3 step minimum on every move.  Williams wants those extra steps so
that he can score more (on and off the court) and try and date one of those En
Vogue girls like Laettner talks about.
From: dorin@ksr.com (Bob Dorin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: 86 Celtics v. 92 Bulls
Date: 22 Dec 92 10:48:45 EST
Organization: Kendall Square Research Corp.

In article <1992Dec21.035544.3680@seas.gwu.edu> kolli@seas.gwu.edu (Chakravarthy Kolli) writes:
>Sometime during those years ( i don't remember the exact year-- 87?) Jordan scored
>63 points in Boston. It clearly tells you that none of the Boston guards 
>could control him.


In the first round of the 1986 playoffs, Jordan scored 63 in game 2
which the CELTICS WON in double OT.  The Celtics swept the series
3 straight.  The Celtics handled Jordan by letting him go 1-on-1
against several different defenders (Ainge, DJ and Sichting), i.e.
losing the battle but winning the war.  Jordan did not control the
Celtics in those games, despite 63 points in that one game.
--
Name:    Bob Dorin
Company: Kendall Square Research 
Email:   dorin@ksr.com, ksr!dorin


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: kolli@seas.gwu.edu (Chakravarthy Kolli)
Subject: Jordan's three pointers
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 17:17:07 GMT


I watched the Washington Bullets vs the Chicago Bulls last night

I am amazed at the ease with which Jordan is shooting three pointers

He had 6 of 8. It's not like Paxson's wide open shots. Either
Rex Chapman or Doug Overton had a hand on him always.

During the finals in June, when he had 6(?) three pointers, I thought
it was just a fluke. After seeing him yesterday, and the ease with
which he is shooting them, may be it's not a fluke


Yes, all the others were flat and he scored 57. More importantly
he took Rex Chapman out of the game and it was Rex who was the man for the
Bullets going into the game

chak kolli
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Subject: Re: Phoenix is absolutely scary...
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Reply-To: koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Organization: Arizona State University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:14:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.083733.2570@inland.com> bloom@inland.com writes:
>Have the Suns beaten the Bulls this season?

They lost the third game of the season - 1 starter from last season
started BTW - it's taken a little time to adjust to this new team, but
less time than anyone could have imagined.

>Has Paxson recovered from surgery yet?  Is Paxson in the starting five?

Paxon, what's a Paxon.  Please play him so KJ can eat him up.  Do you
really want Paxon in your starting five - he's a defensive liability.

>How are the Suns going to play against some of the Eastern teams?

Well, they swept a five game trip a couple weeks ago playing 3 of the top
teams including back-to-back games against the Nets/Hornets and Magic/Heat.
When you say "some" I'm sure you mean Chicago and maybe NY.  The East is
pretty much a joke except for Chicago, NY, and possibly the Cavs if they
ever come around.  Feel free to flame away.

The main reason the Bulls would win the Championship this year is the same
reason they won it last year - Jordan wants it bad enough. 'nough said.
--
Harry Koehnemann			Arizona State University
koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu		Computer Science Department
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei)
Subject: Re: 86 Celtics v. 92 Bulls
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:53:14 GMT

>In article <1992Dec21.035544.3680@seas.gwu.edu> kolli@seas.gwu.edu (Chakravarthy Kolli) writes:
>>Sometime during those years ( i don't remember the exact year-- 87?) Jordan scored
>>63 points in Boston. It clearly tells you that none of the Boston guards 
>>could control him.

You know, everyone remembers the 63 points scored by Jordan.  But does anyone
remember just how many shots he took the achieve that many points?  This
performance wasn't like the ones he's had in the last two finals (game 2, '91,
game 1, '90), Jordan took a lot of shots.  If I remember correctly, he was
near 50%.  Sure he scored a lot of points, but again, if I remember, at a
critical point in the game, he missed a wide open breakaway layup, and the
chance to upset the Celtics was gone.

Plus...he didn't score 63 points in the other two games, and the Celts had
no probloms with the Bulls.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: bis@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Bis)
Subject: Re: Culture comes to USENET (was Re: Jordan & Pippen: No Olympics)
Organization: Bis Information Services
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 03:20:36 GMT

In article <C044Kr.HLp@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dmd39855@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel DuBois) writes:
>EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu writes:
>>In article <OLIVER.92Dec30225918@ballard1.mit.edu>
>>oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III) writes:
>>>In article <C03K75.CrB@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dmd39855@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel DuBois) wrote:
>>>> An ignorant statement like that makes me just want to
>>>> pimp-slap you.
>>BTW can someone explain why the Olympics hasn't had such an adverse affect
>>on Barkely and his Suns? And what does rough play on the part of NY or
>>Detroit in years past have to do with the Bulls now?
>> 
>
>The 'thesis' of my post was about how hard Jordan and Pippen work, and
>grueling season they have to go through.  Very much of that 'gruel'
>has to do with teams coming at them so hard because they're the
>champs (especially physical teams like Detroit and NY).

You don't have a point here.  Sure, teams try to elevate their level
of effort when playing a good team, but this goes for any good team,
and having one the most recent championship doesn't set a team apart
in that respect.  Furthermore, if this had a significant effect on
wearing down the players in a long-term sense, one would expect injury
to be more frequent on championship teams, and this is simply not the
case.  Also, one might expect superstars' careers to be shorter than
those of other good players, and just the opposite is true.

>                                                         And as for
>comparing to Barkley, he was resting during the playoffs last season
>whilst Pippen and Jordan were getting knocked around by the likes of
>Anthony Mason.

Pippen and Jordan are not the only players to go to the playoffs.
And considering that the end of the playoffs and the beginning of the
next season are several months apart, claiming that players who go to
the playoff are at a disadvantage the next season sounds to me like
nothing more than grasping at straws.

>                AND there were two Bulls sent to the Olympics, two
>VERY important Bulls, two Bulls that pretty much carry the team.

Like Malone and Stockton carry the Jazz?

>Cmon you had to see all these points coming!  A ten year old could
>make this case.

And I would hope that only a 10 year old *would* make this case.  It
seems to me like you're trying to manipulate the facts to support your
claim.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: prb@chinet.chi.il.us (Paul Botts)
Subject: Re: Whats with the Bulls?
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:27:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.112050.13088@fasttech.com> zeke@fasttech.com (Bohdan Tashchuk) writes:
>>>I just watched the Rockets demolish the Bulls. As a season ticket holder I am
>>>somewhat dismayed at the teams lack of focus and intensity.  I just was
>>>wondering what all you on the net had to say about the subject.
>
>>	Teams on the rise are cohesive & focused.
>>	once at the top they are looking out for
>>	them$elve$. 
>
>I think we're all spoiled by the Lakers of the 80's. They seemed to have
>wonderful focus and intensity. They would regularly come up to Portland and
>whip the Blazers. If only today's Blazers had a Magic Johnson or a Pat Riley
>or whatever it was that was the soul of the 80's Lakers.
>
>Leadership is very important to a basketball team. Michael may be an
>outstanding player, but does the team accept him as their leader?

Geez, calm down, guys. The Bulls are hardly self-destructing - they're
what, like 16-7 at the moment? And they've already finished the toughest
part of their schedule. Pippen is nursing a bad ankle, Paxson hasn't
recovered from his injury, Jordan missed a game with an injury, and they
turned over much of their bench, which is always bound to require an
adjustment period. Moreover, for a team which has won two straight
titles, surely it is only natural to find it a bit more difficult to get
properly psyched up for every game in the NBA's long exihibition, er,
"regular" season (for the Bulls and a number of other top teams, it
might as well be an exhibition season, given that they couldn't miis the
playoffs if they tried under the NBA system). Phil Jackson isn't
panicking, and he would be crazy to. ANd as for leadership, I think MJ
is doing a fine job there - he's publicly noting their (relatively)
up-and-down play, putting some pressure on the players to get more
focused, but he's not going into panic mode or anything, and not
criticizing individuals. A tempered, rational response, I think. So
everybody just relax. Come February, the Bulls will be claiming the top
spot in the East for their real threepeat drive starting in April.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: dpugmire%peruvian.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (David Pugmire)
Subject: NBA stats so far
Date: 28 Dec 92 09:33:47 MST
Organization: University of Utah

Hi,

Does anyone have the USA Today weekly team stats, or know where I could get
them?
A million thanks to however knows.

dp.
From: centeno@pasadena-dc.bofa.com (R. CENTENO)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Lakers vs Seattle
Date: 24 Dec 92 08:47:41 PDT
Organization: Bank America Systems Engineering, Pasadena, CA

I watched tha Lakers Play Seattle last night.  Big Disappointment!!!!!!
Seattle was without Sean Kemp amd Derick Mckey.  Seattle totally controled the
game, in every aspect.  Sedale Threat was poked in the eye, and was having
vision trouble the whole game, and may have had 6 points.  Worthy had 16 on
7-13 shooting, better, but still not vintage Worthy.  Peeler, Green, and
Perkins played well, but that is still about it.  Again I say, When Vlade
decides to get off of his Lazy butt, they win.  I was saying in the offseason
that since Hakeem has so unhappy in Houston, they should trade Vlade and
Worthy and somebody else for Hakeem.  It is starting to look like that may have
been a good move.  At lease at this point.

I have been a Laker fan for a long time, and I hate to say things like trading
Worthy.  He played a very big part in their championships in the 80's, but
I also can't stand to see them lose like they did last night, especially at
home.  Oh yea, last night they said that Scott would not be back until 
Jan '93.  Can anyone tell me why it takes 2 months to recover from a foot
sprain????

On a good note, the Lakers were 14 points down in the 4th quarter, and a Peeler
let drive cut 13 points off of that lead.  They damn there pulled it off.


-Rob
From: rns@deakin.OZ.AU (Robert Sturrock)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Australias would heve beaten dream team
Date: 30 Dec 1992 18:17:10 +1100
Organization: Deakin University
NNTP-Posting-Host: rastaban.cc.deakin.oz.au

robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger) writes:

>Well. I don't know anything about this thread; something to do with
>the T'wolves or something.

Well maybe you should get a clue before you post..

>I'm responding to that WONDERFULLY incendiary
>Subject line: Australias would have beaten dream team........

>Who the hell came up with THAT? Someone DYING to be flamed???
>I hope the poster(s) have already been singed crisp.......

That thread is weeks old, so why don't you try to stay up to date,
and just let that old news sit.  It was just a bit of BS designed
to get gullible idiots like you to respond the way you did.

>Not in Paul Hogan's WETTEST WILDEST DREAMS could a bunch of pasty-skinned
>Fosters-guzzling white guys beat the DT.

Keep the racist remarks to yourself.


Rob

ps. no Australian worth his salt would drink Foster's anyway.
From: as232@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Lerner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: What is the scoop on Laetner?
Date: 31 Dec 1992 05:03:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Well, assuming Rolland's numbers are right now, ;), let's analyze a bit:

Laettner took 295 shots and made 148, for a .502 FG%.  This isa first year player.  We have players in the league who shoot under 50% that
take more shots.

Laettner has played 22 games, and is averaging 13.4 FGA a game, which is not
a tremendous amount of shots.  He's making 6.7 baskets a game.

I'd say his teammates should immitate his FG% before they ask him for the
ball more. ;)

Mike
--
From: royet@milori.ccit.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Players under 6 feet in the NBA
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:07:01 GMT
Distribution: na,local
Nntp-Posting-User: royet

In article <OJT.92Dec21160702@gano.cs.brown.edu>, ojt@cs.brown.edu (Oren J. Tversky) writes:
> In article <1h57coINNonb@handy.usc.edu> haghighi@handy.usc.edu (Manouchehr Haghighi) writes:
> 
>>   Path: brunix!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!usc!not-for-mail
>>   From: haghighi@handy.usc.edu (Manouchehr Haghighi)
>>   Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
>>  Date: 21 Dec 1992 11:54:00 -0800
>>  Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 
>>  Lines: 15
>>   Distribution: na
>>   NNTP-Posting-Host: handy.usc.edu
>>
>>   Muggsy Bogues 5`3
>>
>>
>>   Spud Webb 5`7
>>
>>
>>   Michael Adams 5`10
>>
>>
>>   Dana Barros 5`11
>>
>>
>>   Terrel Brandon 5`11
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about:
> 
> *  Keith "Mister" Jennigs (Golden State Warriors) 5'6" currently on IR
> 
> *  Greg  Grant  (Philadelphia 76ers) 5'6"
> 
> *  Mike  Izullino (Dallas Mavericks) He's listed at around 6'0", but I
>    think he's definitely under 6'0"
> 
> *  Scotty Brooks (Houston?) 5'10"
> 
> 
> It's hard to tell sometimes a lot of point gurads are listed at 6'0"
> or 6'1" and are actually shorter.
> 
> 
> --

I have a friend who says he & KJ (of the Suns) go to the same church up in
Phoenix, and he says he's a true 6'1" person (since nobody cares what his
stats are... then he has nothing to protect). He says that KJ is definitely
shorter than he is, and KJ is either listed as 6'2" or 6'1".  Perhaps KJ
could either be 6' or 5'11"... who knows?  :-)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: sheth@cs.iastate.edu (Divyesh K sheth)
Subject: Re: Jordan & Pippen: No Olympics
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:21:49 GMT

I don't understand why this thread  is gonig on for so long.
Jordan and Pippen spoke out there  mind and they are not using this 
thing as an excuse for there poor play.
BTW, Bulls are 20-7. Second only to Phoenix and they are leading the
central division by 3-4 games. SO where does the question of being
flat come?

DIvyesh

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Divyesh Sheth                 |       Office:                      |
|                                 |       CNDE,                        |
|   307-A, Westgate Hall          |       226, ASC II,                 |
From: koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: A Call for Information
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:34:13 GMT
Reply-To: koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Organization: Arizona State University

In article <MBN.92Dec23101733@greyskul.hf.intel.com> mbn@greyskul.hf.intel.com (Mike Northam) writes:
>>>>>> "sarvilinna" == sarvilinna  <sarvilinna@cc.helsinki.fi> writes:
>> 	I'd be very grateful for any information on the status of the 
>> 	following players:
>
>> 		Kendall Gill - Charlotte
>> 		Antoine Carr - San Antonio
>> 		Moses Malone - Milwaukee
>
>> 		Oliver Miller - Phoenix
Stress fracture in his foot - a problem he had in college and probably
related to him being so FAT.  I haven't heard how long he'll be out,
but his is on IR and no ones talking about bringing him back soon.

>> 		Shawn Kemp - Seattle
>     Shawn is out with a strained knee.  Should be back soon
Hopefully *after* Saturday, when they play the Suns.

>> 		Sarunas Marciulionis - Golden State
>     Back after the first of the year?
>
>> 		Kevin Johnson - Phoenix
Still recovering from a groin injury from pre-season.  WIll be activated
in time for Saturday's game with Seattle.
--
Harry Koehnemann			Arizona State University
koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu		Computer Science Department