HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kettler@mitme5.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Re: Red Sox Protected list
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:24:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.175802.11746@osf.org>, ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)                  writes...
>In article <1992Aug21.160416.2032@encore.com>, jlundy@bilbo.encore.com (Joe Lundy) writes:
>|> Red Sox Protected List
>|> 
>|> Roger Clemens
>|> Frank Viola
> 
>  Come on, Joe! How could you forget:
> 
>   Lou Gorman
>   Don Zimmer

You'd protect Lou? He would be the first person I would leave unprotected. 
However, who would want a guy who handles large contracts like this guy does?
I bet Joe Morgan is laughing it up while fishing when he sees how well the 
Red Sux have mastered the art of losing. As Elizabeth Barrett Browning would 
say,

"How do they lose? Let me count the ways..." d::-)

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Expos Fanatic"  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Save the Giants
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 06:05:06 GMT

In article <4200333@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> lynch@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Howard Lynch) writes:

>I'm not a Giants fan, but am interested in becoming a shareholder
>in an NL franchise.  I don't believe all the hog-wash about the owners
>losing money, and I'm willing to make an investment to back up that
>belief.  I think that the cash flow is poor, but that franchise
>values will still increase faster than any negative cash flow.

I think buying a major league team, due to the fact that the value of teams go
up so quickly, is a *great* investment.  However, I am less than optimistic
about the share-holding plan that these people are putting together.  Unlike
Bob Lurie (who owns the whole team), if you own a tiny fraction of the team,
you cannot sell the team to the highest bidder on your whim, and therefore I
think that in fact you will likely not gain anything by investing under this
plan.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: It ain't over yet
Date: 12 Aug 92 12:57:16 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1695kiINNp8a@network.ucsd.edu> maher@yin.uucp (Kevin Maher) writes:
>>It would seem to me that if a local buyer steps forth prior to the major
>>league meeting in Sept. and a stadium deal is in place, the proposed 
>>sale of the team to Tampa might not fly. 
>>
>>Opinions?
>
>	I heard in addition that when the last SJ ballot initiative was voted
>down, she said she'd have a privately owned stadium proposal in SF in 6 weeks.
>I also heard that that was 6 weeks ago thursday, so her proposal isn't just
>a reaction to Lurie's news.  She went on to say that since the announcement
>by Lurie, people from all over the bay area (SF) have been throwing millions
>of dollars at her to fund it.  Nice problem to have.  Unfortunately, I think
>the most this will do is give her a point to argue with the commish, but I
>wish I knew more details.

This is all very interesting but it seems that for all the talk one important
aspect is being ignore.  Even if local buyers were come forth wouldn't that
create a real legal stink for MLB?  

I mean I'm certainly no expert in contract law but didn't Lurie's public 
announcement of an acceptance of an offer for the purchase of the team 
constitute a valid contract?  I know the "best interest of baseball" clause
carries alot of weight in internal baseball matters but now that the deal 
has been struck with the city of Tampa to not carry through for no other reason
than an offer from a local buyer n SF would seem to be an open and shut law
suit for the city of Tampa.

Has anything like this happened in the past?


PSG 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mard@quads.uchicago.edu (Adrian N. Marden)
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Sat, Aug 15th, 1992
Reply-To: mard@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 20:08:10 GMT

In article <16jfvbINN2pb@agate.berkeley.edu> jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez) writes:
>NATIONAL WEST
>Atlanta Braves        69    44    .611    --     z8-2     Won 2  38-20  31-24
>Cincinnati Reds       64    50    .561   5.5      3-7    Lost 2  36-19  28-31

>Atlanta       15			Baltimore	3
>Pittsburgh	0			Kansas City	1

In response to the person who wrote, "Where are all of the Braves fans now?" a
few months back:

Here we are, enjoying our team's 5 1/2 game lead over the Reds, and enjoying
the fact that the Braves HAVE THE BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL!!!

Woof.

						Nick
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Do franchise moves benefit the team?
Date: 13 Aug 92 05:47:57 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

More from _The Diamond Revolution_.

Are there "bad baseball towns", towns that fail to support their team, and
therefore don't "deserve" baseball teams?  Wilkinson argues that this isn't
true, that the failure to support the team seems to be more a function of
the poor management of the team than any failing in the city.  He looks at
cities that have lost teams in the expansion era, since every city that has
lost a franchise in that period has acquired a new one either through
expansion or another franchise move (except the second incarnation of the
Senators).  He points out the following:

		Number of Years with Greater Attendance

Years		New market		Abandoned market
1962-1991	Giants 5		Mets 24
1969-1991	A's  6			Royals 16
1969-1991  	Braves 8		Brewers 14
1961-1971	Twins 11		Senators II 0
1977-1991	Brewers 12		Seattle 2

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Orioles/Jays --> Game 4
Keywords: O's/Jay's Game 4 Highlights
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:23:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee

In article <19094@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com> mkipp@ems.cdc.com writes:
>
>  Could someone please periodically post the score/highlights of today's
> O's/Jay's Game while it is in progress?
>
>  Also, who do the Jays play in the near future.  The O's travel to KC for
> a 3 game series this weekend, then are home for 9 games againist the M's
> Oakland and California.
       
       The Jays travel to Milwaukee for a 3-game series starting Tuesday.
       About a week later, the Brewhas travel to Toronto for a 4-gamer.
       In other words, we'll know if it'll be a two or three team race
       down the stretch in about two weeks. Of course if the Brewhas
       continue to tear the cover off the ball, averaging .667 runs per
       game against California's Cy Young candidates, Valera, Finley, and
       Langston, it will quickly become a two-team race. At least Clemens
       pitches tonight in Cleveland and will miss the series w/Milwaukee 
       starting Friday.

       --salty
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar)
Subject: Mock Expansion: Astros
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: News and Views from LSU
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:23:59 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-28104]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu


Since I've finally finished the list I figured I might as well post it.

This is the list of protected Astros for the upcomming mock expansion draft.

Biggio
Bagwell
Cedano
Caminiti
Taubensee
Gonzalez
Anthony
Finley
Incaviglia
Harnisch
Williams
Juden
Hernandez
Henry
Kile

	The future looks somewhat dimmer for the Astros.  They really don't
have any position players in the minors (unless I missed someone at AA)
and their young pitching (Kile, Bowen, Juden, Gardner, Williams) isn't 
panning out like it was being projected to.  Is there anyone obvious that
I left out?

Dave 
__________
Dave Bonar
eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
__________
From: 11dmcvay@gallua.gallaudet.edu (Daniel T. McVay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Clemens wins his fourteenth!
Date: 16 Aug 92 04:11:53 GMT
Organization: Gallaudet University

In article <1992Aug16.012214.7896@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, mjw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wolverton) writes:
> In article <1992Aug15.030248.1261@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>>I'm curious about how people feel on this.  Suppose Clemens finishes
>>with a 20-9 record and 2.25 ERA, and Eckersley finishes with a 6-1
>>record, 54 saves, and a 2.00 ERA on a division-winning team.  (These
>>are both conceivable outcomes, I would say.)  Who would you vote for
>>Cy Young?

I wouldn't even consider Eckersley. IMHO, I think those relievers are nothing
and no good compared to the good ol' relievers way back in the good 'le
days. See rollie fingers, and compare him to Reardon. Reardon would be just
another average player.

> 
> I find it really difficult to compare the contributions of starters
> and relievers.  I've been unhappy with the BBWAA's choices in the
> years they've decided to give the award to relievers -- e.g., Lyle in
> '77, Bedrosian in '87, Mark Davis in '89 -- but I really can't say for
> sure that any of those guys wasn't more valuable than the best starter
> his year.

You're right. Some people are just plain 'le stupid.

> 
> I'd like to see the Cy Young awarded only to pitchers who are
> primarily starters, and a new award created for the best pitcher who's
> primarily a reliever.  This "Best Reliever" award would also be voted
> on by the BBWAA, and would hopefully eliminate the need for the
> current "Fireman of the Year" award, with its statistical rankings.
> 
> Since Fay is a good buddy of mine, I'll get this implemented right
> away :-).

Please do. It's about time some common sense was implemented in the league.

*smile*

> 
> -Michael
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Wolverton                       "Is that clear?"
> mjw@cs.stanford.edu                     "No, but it's consistent!"
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Daniel Mcvay	11dmcvay@gallua.gallaudet.edu	11dmcvay@gallux.gallaudet.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Wisdom was not at the top of the Graduate-School,
		mountain but there in the sandpile at Sunday School.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Subject: Re: AL RC/27 Leaders
Organization: NSSL
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:41:33 GMT

In article <23512@oasys.dt.navy.mil> hambric@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Stephen Hambric) writes:
>(Nelson Lu's list cut off)
>
>***** This is not intended to be a flame *****
>
>Question:  Have you attempted to somehow sum these RC/27 stats for all
>the members of a team and compare the result to the actual runs scored
>by the team as a sanity check?  I have a hard time believing that some
>of the guys on this list are more valuable offensively than others (John
>Olerud better than Big Cecil?), probably because I still cling tenaciously
>to RBI as a worthwhile stat.

We can't sum RC/27 into anything meaningful, but we can sum Runs Created.
Bill James did this back in the '82 Abstract and I've done it here using
Don Hearth's posted AL stats from a week ago.  I've used the simplest
runs created formula

(Hits + Walks)*(Total Bases)/(At Bats + Walks) = RC

for everyone in the AL and summed to get team and league predicted runs.
More detailed versions of the formula, which might be what Nelson is
using, should have smaller errors but the necessary data are not 
available.  (%Error = 100*(Created-Scored)/Scored).  In any case, 
the fit isn't bad, 8 of the 14 within 12 runs, none worse than 10%--

Team         Scored   Created  %Error
Detroit        400     363.9    -9.0
Milwaukee      431     396.6    -8.0
Chicago        382     357.5    -6.4
Minnesota      386     363.9    -5.7
California     325     314.0    -3.4
Texas          435     423.5    -2.6
Oakland        447     438.8    -1.8
Toronto        423     417.9    -1.2
Boston         354     358.4     1.2
Seattle        363     368.1     1.4
New York       445     452.7     1.7
Cleveland      355     362.3     2.1
Baltimore      497     518.6     4.3
Kansas City    354     369.3     4.3
AL Total      5597    5505.0    -1.6

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
National Severe Storms Laboratory/CIMMS (Norman, OK)
Andres Galarraga (Through 11 August)  .235 BA  .359 SLG  .273 OBA
24 H away from .300  7 HBP  6 BB    664+ PA w/o a sacrifice
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Mets draft protection
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:47:39 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853

In article <1992Aug19.202547.26052@leland.Stanford.EDU> paladin@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jason Gische) writes:
>If I had to guess, I would say they will definitley protect:
>
>	Magadan, Hundley, Johnson, Bonilla
>	Gooden, Fernandez, Saberhagen, Schourek, Young, Franco

If they protect Dwight Gooden, they must really be getting desperate!
He's not a 5-10 player yet, is he?  The only less-draftable players I
can think of are Morris and Young.

Don't they have *anything* besides this on the team?  How about
Donnels and this McKnight guy?  Innis?  Whitehurst?

And surely they have *something* left in the minors.

Cheers,
-Valentine


-- 
Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: curve@netcom.com (My Name is Your Fate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Injury Reports
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:27:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


Dunno about Palmer, but Lansford is sitting down with some kind of a leg
problem (hamstring, I think).  I believe his status is that he could
play if he had to, but La Russa, suddenly finding himself with more
than one person on the bench  :)  is resting him until he knows he's
better.  Odds are Carney will start again tomorrow.
From: a_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Managing in the AL
Date: 23 Aug 92 16:53:47 GMT
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Aug21.163756.14867@cis.ohio-state.edu>, miked@cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Davey) writes:
> I was having a discussion the other day with a friend of mine and we were
> discussing the upcoming ALCS and NLCS and I made the statement that I
> would have to go with Oakland over the Jays for a variety of reasons, one
> of which was that LaRussa is such a highly touted manager and Cito has such
> a bad rap (on this net at least) as an on-the-field manager.  My friend
> commented that managing doesn`t really matter that much in the AL due
> to the DH (obviously).  I`d like to see some reasonable postings on the matter.
> Personally, it seems obvious that managing takes a variety of skills not 
> limited to double switches and when to bat for a pitcher or not, and its 
> incorrect to ignore the other factors surrounding managing like handling
> the different personalities, when to pitch out, when to steal, bunt, hit and
> run, pitch around etc...  However, I do think the DH is an abomination and
> AL baseball not as interesting as the NL brand.
> 

	Yet another unfortunate who has been brainwashed to believe that the DH
is a spawn of Satan. Do you think its more exciting to have the pitcher whiff
at three pitches? Do you think its more exciting to see a pitcher try to drop a
sacrifice bunt? Not I. AL baseball is more exciting *with* the DH.
	
	Anyway, to answer your question: Most of the supposed non-DH strategies
in the NL are pretty automatic. If you're losing in the 8th or 9th innings, the
pitcher gets hit for (with the possible exception of him sacrificing if the
situation calls for it). If you're winning in the late innings, and you pitcher
is doing fine, you leave him in. In the AL, the concern is when to pull the
starter based on how he is doing. There does seem to be a tendancy to leave a
pitcher in a bit longer than they normally should, but it seems rather slight
(one major exception being Billy Martin's destruction of the young arms of the
1980 Oakland Athletics). A good AL manager needs to have a very good 'feel' for
his pitchers, to know when to pull them. In this respect, AL baseball is
possibly *harder* than NL baseball.

Brandon Cope
From: aaron@juliet.caltech.edu (Packman, Aaron I.)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Giants schedule info needed (Sept/Oct)
Keywords: Giants, schedule
Date: 14 Aug 92 23:56:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I'd like to find out which Sept./Oct. weekends will feature Giants home
games, and their opponents for those series.  If anyone has decent
tickets for any of those weekend games, I'd be interested in them as well.

Appreciatively,
Aaron Pacman
aaron@caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: O1DOUG@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Doug Miller)
Subject: Re: Eck or the Rocket?
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 06:37:42 GMT

   Maybe along with the Cy Young award they should have the Dick Raditz
award. Baseball people should realize how baseball has changed. Not to
discredit Eck for his accomplishments but his job is so very different.
If Eck gets the Cy Young then no starter would get the award for being
the finest A.L. pitcher for 1992, is that fair. But this goes both ways,
If Clemens gets it than what recognition would Eck get, providing one of
them does get it.
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dick Williams as Manager of the Padres?!?!?
Date: 22 Aug 92 04:01:10 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <1992Aug21.223552.27336@u.washington.edu> sgs@milton.u.washington.edu (Steven Smith) writes:
I said, w/o smily...
>>OK, but that was barely a year and I submit that the Mariners
>>are the most consistently underachieving team for their talent...


>This might well be true, but your original comment and this new one are
>contradictory.  

yes...

>Underachieving teams are supposedly the ones that Williams
>is best for, but he most clearly did not know how to get the most out of
>the Mariners. I think he got too big for his britches and then became a 
>quitter when he wasn't successful.  

possibly.

>Not someone I'd want to hire to manage my ballteam.

Billy Martin is working for the Angels now, as is Herzog.
LaRussa and Leyland have jobs...
I don't really believe Gene Mauch is a good manager...

And Riddoch just isn't cutting it.  There are *worse* managers,
but not many.

>Or are you trying to tell me that Williams is still his magic self and
>the Mariners are just a hopeless case? 8-(

Well, that was the intent, though the irony seems to get lost
in the posting.  I don't really know how DW is now, but
if you go back and read the archives (ha!) you'll see I made
the same plea to the baseball gods in May - 
replace Riddoch with Williams!
Actually, I post it about once a year...

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: QUIZ: Cy Young on Losing Teams
From: <DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 11:04:29 EDT
Organization: Penn State University

In another thread some people have noted that Roger Clemens might win
the Cy Young award, despite pitching for a losing team.  Other people
noted the most famous Cy Young on a loser, Steve Carleton, who won 27
for the 1972 Phillies.  There have been others, however.  By my count
(not always the most accurate, so corrections are welcome) from the
start of the award until 1987 there have been 5 other cases in which
the Cy Young award winner came from a team with a record under .500;
Can you name them? (If anyone has someone after 1987, I don't have a
more current list, so go ahead and post any Cy Young from a loser post-87).

Dennis Shea
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: O1DOUG@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Doug Miller)
Subject: Re: Indians out of the cellar!!!!!!!!!
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 07:46:51 GMT

They did it, the Tribe beat the Twins 2-1. Being out of the cellar is like
winning a pennant around here. Maybe our time is close!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Base-ball Dream Team
Date: 12 Aug 92 12:15:09 GMT
Reply-To: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Organization: Southern Bell - MSG  Atlanta, Ga

In article <23395@oasys.dt.navy.mil> jwhite@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Joseph White) writes:
>Well, I don't think that it will ever happen, for a very simple economic
>reason.  The basketball Dream Team was able to be formed, because the
>NBA plays basketball in the fall/winter, which allows the players to
>be on the Dream Team, and not miss any games during the season.  Do
>you honestly think that an owner is going to let a player take a month
>or so off, DURING A PENANT RACE!!, so that the player could go play
>for an Olympic team?
>
>Joe White

Well, Joe, what if.  What if the Summer Olympics were played in the
Southern Hemisphere?  It could happen.  It HAS happened.  Now that
the Summer and Winter Olympics will be staggered in even numbered
years, the Summer Games could be played at any time during the year.
This could allow for Major Leaguers to play in the Olympics.  I
just wonder though.  There are a lot of Latin Americans in the Major
Leagues.  Could be the USA wouldn't be guaranteed the gold.  Yes, yes,
.....what if.

Alvin White
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball