From: Jamie_Krutz@a68k.denver.CO.US (Jamie Krutz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Responsible Parenting
Distribution: world
Date: 11 Oct 92 01:00:31 MST
Organization: The Arvada 68K BBS- Westminster, CO

Addressing me, Scott Blackledge writes:

>When communicating with an audience, be it one or more people, 
>it is the responsibility of both sides to use language 
>appropriate for the situation.  For example, I would not come up 
>to you on the street and let fly a slew of profanity.  Even if I 
>would do that to someone, it would be someone that I knew well 
>enough to "get away with it" (read: not violate their 
>conversation standards).  Please don't tell me what my 
>"responsibility as a parent" is when you, and granted I am 
>making an assumption, don't have any experience in parenting at 
>all.



Hi Scott,



Think about the position you're painting yourself into here.  You 
want people to use "language appropriate for the situation."  Now 
who decides what "language appropriate for the situation" is, in 
any given situation?  I certainly don't want you deciding that 
for me, and obviously you don't want me deciding that for you.  



Hades, if Pat Buchanon had to live by my definitions of 
appropriate language he wouldn't be left with much to say.



In this country, at least, no one can decide "language 
appropriate for the situation" for anyone who wants to express an 
opinion.  I know of no better way to handle this issue than the 
freedom of speech we are guaranteed by the United States 
constitution.



Your example of coming up to the street and swearing at me seems 
easily handled in our free speech context.  If, using your 
example, you were abusive or threatening or slanderous I might 
have legal grounds to complain because you'd have gone beyond the 
expression of an opinion and crossed the line into action or the 
threat of action which would be directly detrimental to my health 
or reputation. 



Note that you can be abusive, threatening or slanderous with or 
without using profanity.  



As a quick but necessary digression I will quickly define 
profanity, as used in US culture, for the sake of discussion, as 
the use of the roughly seven or so words which technically 
discuss the mechanical exchange of dna material; describe the 
natural byproduct of the necessary digestion of food; refer to 
deities or where the bad ones are rumored to hang out; or refer 
to a matriarchal species impossible for humans.  



OK, now back to your example.  If you were just swearing at the 
fact that you had gotten a parking ticket or something, and I 
happened to be walking by at the time, that would be your right.  
Or if you felt inclined to swear at the fact that they put an IDE 
HD interface in the Amiga 4000 and I happened to overhear you, 
that would be another understandable example.



Now let's discuss the difference between having a right and using 
your judgement when exercising it (this is what I think is 
important, at some point, to teach children).  We probably agree 
on some of this.



A human being behaving in a sensitive way (which is probably how 
you want your children to behave) would pay attention to the 
surrounding environment and make some effort to not deliberately 
piss people off through rude or thoughtless words or actions.  
This, I think, is an admirable behavioral choice, one I 
encourage.  Note that not all people on the net behave in this 
manner all of the time.  ;)



So back to the subject of the hackers of Amiga demos:  either 
those people don't always behave in a sensitive way either, or, 
in their subculture, they _are_ using "language appropriate for 
the situation."  Either way, they have the right to put whatever 
language they want into their free demos.  When you take the 
demos out of their context and into the context of your family, 
you might want to screen the demos first and use some judgement 
of your own.  That's your job, not the hacker's.  



You do, of course, have the right to express your opinion of the 
hacker's behavior and judgement, and you probably will want to do 
that, at some point, with your kids.





Finally, with or without experience in parenting, I have every 
right in this country to have and express _my_ _opinion_ on the 
subject of free speech, particularly when some people with 
children take someone else's use of language as an excuse to 
suddenly decide they are the arbiters of everyone else's freedom.  
However, if it is somehow germane to anyone, I do have experience 
in both parenting and being parented.



So it is my opinion that it is the responsibility of parents to 
prepare their children for the world as it is because they do and 
will continue to live in that world.  If you don't give your 
children the mental tools to handle what they will experience, 
and instead keep them sheltered in your own denial (and I'm not 
saying that's necessarily what you are doing, Scott), in my 
opinion that would not be the behavior of a responsible parent, 
and the likely outcome would be an exaggerated, possibly 
destructive rebellion for the child later in life.  I've 
certainly seen this happen.



Every situation that occurs with which you don't agree is an 
opportunity for discussion and learning.  Ultimately it is up to 
your kids to decide if you are right.  And they _will_ make those 
decisions.  They will most likely continue making those decisions 
long after you're gone.  Help them now through your teaching and 
your actions.  It's not easy.  It's work.  And it's a growing 
process for each parent, too.



I don't think you can push that responsibility off on others.



Again, this is my opinion about what is best for children and 
society.



Obligatory Amiga Ref:  And by all means get your kids an Amiga...



Pax,

 -Jamie



PS.  There are countries that do legislate what opinions you can 
and cannot express based on someone else's ideas of "language 
appropriate for the situation" but I wouldn't want to live in 
that circumstance.  Iran comes to mind.





non-Amiga Followups to alt.sociology.whateverit'scalled

Friendly Email to jamie@schmendrick.rmnug.com (I don't have Email 
at the A68k address)

Threats to dev.null


-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc