From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Can You Provide Any Examples Of Lying By 'Appressian,' 'Milanini?'
Date: 7 Apr 92 04:42:00 GMT



<1992Apr05.002822.28045@microsoft.com>
marcmil@microsoft.com (Marc MILANINI)

>Mr Mutlu, you have once again proved your fanatism to all the readers
>of the newsgroups you crossposted your message to. I had sent my 
>message to soc.culture.europe only, but you felt the urge (desire of
>being listened to, inferiority complex ?) to crosspost your crap
>to irrelevant newsgroups.

I think that a succinct article containing useful timely information
merits posting to relevant newsgroups. Do you insist that you cater
to false perceptions because a huge number of people hold them?

>Ha Ha Ha, if i were, i would infect your computer first... But I think
>that the data it contains are already rotten to the core.

When you have nothing to say, name calling is the best policy.

>[ Lots of "references" deleted ]

May I ask why?

>Mr Mutlu, the fact that those books come from western editors does
>not prove that what is inside is true. In those contries, it is possible
>to publish almost anything. 

What it all comes down to is the old saying: 'what goes around,
comes around.'

The following is a partial list of the references on the Armenian 
genocide of 2.5 million Muslims (in English).

 1."Men Are Like That" by Leonard A. Hartill, Bobbs Co., Indianapolis, 
   1926

   Memoirs of an Armenian Army Officer (Appressian) translated to English 
   and published by a member of American "Near East Relief Organization."
   Gives the whole account of the genocide of all Turkish and Moslem
   people in Armenia organized and executed by Armenian Government and
   Army. Also gives account of countless other massacres and atrocities
   against the Turkish people in Armenia.

 2."Adventures in the Near East" by A. Rawlinson,
   Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925

   Eyewitness account of the same genocide by a British Army Officer.

 3."World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn,
   Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952

   Another eyewitness account of the same genocide by an American 
   Officer.

 4."From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne" by Avetis Aharonian,
   The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17 
   (Spring 1964)

   Memoirs of the chief Armenian delegate to the Paris Peace Conference
   were published in the Armenian Review Magazine in 13 articles from
   Volume 15 (Fall 1962) to Volume 17 (Spring 1964). These memoirs 
   include an interview between Aharonian and British Foreign Minister 
   Lord Curzon in which above-mentioned genocide was discussed. The 
   official report mentioned by Lord Curzon is the report of British 
   High Commissioner to Caucasia, Sir Oliver Wardrop.

Need I go on?

>If someone had written a book entitled
>"The lies of Mutlu-Jerk", they could probably find someone to edit it.

Can you provide any examples of lying by 'Shaw, McCarthy, Inalcik, Papazian,
Nalbandian, Appressian,...?'

>You get the idea.

No.

>[Sources from Istambul deleted]

Why?

>Nothing from Erevan, eh ?

Just say so.

Source: "Men Are Like That" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis (1928). (305 pages). 

p. 20 (second paragraph).

"Our men armed themselves, gathered together and advanced on the Tartar
 section of the village. There were no lights in the houses and the doors
 were barred, for the Tartars suspected what as to happen and were in great 
 fear. Our men hammered on the doors, but got no response; whereupon they
 smashed in the doors and began a carnage that continued until the last
 Tartar was slain. Throughout the hideous night, I cowered at home in terror,
 unable to shut my ears to the piercing screams of the helpless victims and
 the loud shouts of our men. By morning the work was finished."

>[Loads of hooey propaganda deleted]

if so, please provide us with your corrections.

>Mr Mutlu, you should join the department for redundant redundancy
>department. I will put that on your extreme nervosity. Be careful
>not too heat your room too much though, you might kill your computer.

I see you are preparing the groundwork for yet another retreat from
your ridiculous claims.

>>This event is incontrovertibly proven by historians, government
>>and international political leaders, such as U.S. Ambassador Mark 

>History is a science, Mr Mutlu. As I don't want to be entirely
>negative (as your silly attitude would entitle me to be), I
>will suggest that you come up with a paper published in a referred
>history review, stating that the Armenians killed 2.5 M muslims
>in the period 1914-1920. 

Rotten wood cannot be carved. I do have a copy of a demographic 
history on the question of the numbers which was published by a 
major American university press, that of New York University, 
copyright 1983. Its author, Prof. Justin McCarthy, is chairman of 
the history department at the University of Louisville in Kentucky, 
and a scholar whose expertise in this subject is so universally 
recognized by his peers that he was chosen to write the entry 
on 'demography' in the major reference work in the field of 
Middle Eastern studies, "The Encyclopedia of Islam." Nor has his 
expertise been ignored by the U.S. Government. Professor McCarthy holds 
perhaps the unique honor of having held a National Science Foundation 
'national needs post-doctoral fellowship in demography' and a National 
Endowment for the Humanities 'senior fellow' grant in history. 

Source #1: McCarthy, J., "Muslims and Minorities, The Population of 
Ottoman Anatolia and the End of the Empire," New York University Press, 
New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.

Table 7.10 "Muslim Deaths 1912-22"
Table 7.11 "Projected and Actual Muslim Populations, 1922,
            Showing the Effect of the Wars"

Source #2: Hovannisian, Richard G., "Armenia on the Road to Independence,
        1918. University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles),
        1967, p. 13.

>In the absence of such a reference, I will
>continue to consider you as what you look like, a inoffensive
>net.terrorist.

Sorry, this is insufficient for the argument at hand.

>>               (to be continued...)

>Alas !

Stay tuned.

Source: Stanford J. Shaw, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey,"
        Vol II. Cambridge University Press, London, 1979, pp. 314-317.

"An Armenian state was organized at Van under Russian protection, and it 
 appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or driven away, it might be
 able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers of ancient Armenian
 civilization. An Armenian legion was organized 'to expel the Turks from
 the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a concerted
 Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet.'[162] Thousands of Armenians from
 Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new 
 Armenian state...By mid-July there were as many as 250,000 Armenians
 crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had housed and fed
 no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.[163]"

[162] Hovannisian, "Road to Independence," p. 56; FOP 2488, nos. 127223 and
58350.

[163] BVA, Meclis-i Vukela Mazbatalari, debates of August 15-17, 1915; 
Babi-i Ali Evrak Odasi, no. 175, 321, "Van Ihtilali ve Katl-i Ami,"
Zilkade 1333/10 September 1915.

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)