HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Date: 29 Jan 1993 01:10:21 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

--Just a couple of comments.  It seems to me that everyone is judging their
  "worst car" solely on either reliability issues or styling.  IMO, I don't
  think these are the only criteria to consider when claiming that these
  cars are the "worst cars" sold in the U.S today.

--Aamir Qazi

-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.
From: molnar@ilium.crd.ge.com (Karl J Molnar)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Date: 23 Jan 93 21:02:25 GMT
Reply-To: molnar@crd.ge.com
Distribution: na
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady, NY

In article <1993Jan22.220535.10804@leland.Stanford.EDU>, (Theodore Chen)
tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU writes

>
>In article <1993Jan22.142044.20423@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu >(John F Nielsen) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan21.194635.7009@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com>
c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros >Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>
>>>
>>>'CR Statistics' is an oxymoron.
>>>
>>>Unless CR can prove that they have used a sample population
>>>representative of the actual population of course...
>>
>>Why is that necessary for what they are trying to show. Unless the
>>people answering the questionaires are morons or like to lie, the
>>data is useful, it is not that hard to know when you got a repair.
>>
>i was going to stay out of this one, but this seems painfully obvious.
>CR is trying to rate the cars relative to each other in a number of
>areas, by using data obtained from questionnaires.  you need a
>certain sample size in order to be mostly certain that your results
>are representative of the population as a whole.  to use an extreme
>example, i'm sure you would reject a rating based on a single
>survey response.  how about two?  how about three?
>as you increase the sample size the probability of incorrect results
>decreases (which means that the probability of correct results increases).
>at some arbitrary level we say we're satisfied and use that as our
>minimum sample size.  in practice, people more than the minimum sample
>size because they usually have to throw some of the responses away
>(invalid responses).
>
>the point is, even if the people are perfectly truthful and unbiased
>in their response (and i am dubious about this), random chance may
>cause their results to be wildly different from the results of the
>whole group.  this is a critical issue in the reliability of CR's
>ratings.  if the sample size is too small, it's not going to be much
>more reliable than asking one or two people.  the information they
>give may still be useful, but it will be lacking in authoritativeness.
>
>-teddy
>

Certainly the sample size is important, but I think the point is that
since the sample population may not be representative of the entire
population, the results may be skewed.  For example, if they only surveyed
people from southern California, then the body rust-through results
certainly wouldn't mean a whole lot.  Does CR publish their criteria
somewhere as to how they go about getting their results?

Karl Molnar
molnar@crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: ravalent@rodan.acs.syr.EDU (Bob Valentine)
Subject: Re: Transmission Question
Keywords: transmission, auto
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 15:35:24 EST

In article <C19utq.FDG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real Life?!?! HA!!) writes:
>I've seen two cars now with this, and I was wondering if any of you folks could
>explain it to me.  Both cars I've seen with this were blatant hotrods; one was
>perhaps a little TOO extreme (blown 454 w/twin Holley 750's).  But anyway,
>the transmission selectors on both these cars were really weird.  They had,
>not one, but THREE levers!  The three all ran front-to-back in parallel.
>
>Now, if I were to guess, I would suppose that each of these levers manually
>engaged/disengaged one band of an automatic transmission.  Is this correct?
>What are the benefits?  Faster shifts?  Durability?  Less power loss?  Or just
>manual control?

    Either you were looking at the shifter(s?) for a Lenco "planetary"
manual trans, or you were looking at a Hurst "Lightning Rods" shifter.
    The Lenco is essentially a drag-race only manual trans. You
release the clutch in first gear, then without using the clutch, just
pull back the next lever for the next gear.  Really cool, IMHO.
    The lightning rods are essientally the same idea, except 1 of
those levers has Park-Reverse-Neutral-Drive, and the other two are for
manual first and second.  

>Thanks!
>Michael T. Chaffee
>mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu

                      -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

From: glaird@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Gordon Laird)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:09:02 GMT
Subject: Looking for 4wd mail group.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.autos

    I'm looking to join a mail group that concentrates on 'off road', '4wd',
and/or 'sport utility' topics.  Something similar to the 'mustang' or 'camaro'
mail groups.  Does anyone out there know of such an electronic place?  Thanks.
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Goodyear Eagles GT+4 / GA
Date: 22 Jan 1993 19:02:16 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <18360.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us> david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds)  writes:
>When I bought my '89 SHO used with 68.5k miles on the clock, the previous
>owner was on his third set of tires.  The first two sets were GT+4s, and 
>were replaced after approx 30k miles on each set.  The GAs he bought showed
>little wear after the 8.5k miles on them, and they are still going strong
>at 72k.  I can't really compare, but the previous owner swears they are quieter
>and a better ride then the GT+4s, while the handling only suffered in hard
>cornering.  
>
>I'd say unless you do a lot of hard driving, go with the GAs.  You get a
>smoother, quieter ride for less $$$, and it lasts longer.

--For the record, Ford is using Eagle GA's on the Taurus SHO Automatic.
  Based on the popularity of their use by manufacturers, they seem like
  good road tires.

--Aamir Qazi

-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.
From: mcculloc@sps203.lds.loral.com (Thad McCulloch)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: LH warranty
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:19:29 GMT
Organization: Loral Data Systems

I've decided to take the plunge and have placed an order for an Eagle Vision
TSI.  The car should arrive in a couple of months.  My question involves the
selection of the warranty period.  The Chrysler LH cars give the buyer the
choice:  12/12 everything + 7/70 powertrain OR
         36/36 everything

Given that the LH cars are new and Chrysler being Chrysler, any 
recommendations about what warranty selection might be the better bet?

---------------
Thad McCulloch
mcculloc@lds.loral.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: krothman@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Ken Rothman)
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:50:22 GMT

nau@ssesco.com (William Nau) writes:

>Ken Rothman <krothman.727987654@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> writes:
>> With all the advances in aerodynamics and ergonomics in design in the past ten
>> years (mostly on the part of European and Japanese makers), this beast is an
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>Apparently the Ford Taurus had little influence on the shape of cars today.
>In my opinion there is no car that has had a greater influence on the vast
>improvements of aerodynamics than the Taurus.

>-- 
>William R. Nau

Oh please.... don't give me that tone.  I said mostly.
Sure, the Taurus was influential, but do you see many Citation clones?

I said MOSTLY.


Ken
From: grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Date: 28 Jan 1993 08:34:24 -0500
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: oit.gatech.edu

pebi@aem.umn.edu (Peter A. Bidian) writes:

>tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:

>>c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>>>
>>>Some car magazine I checked during lunch actually discussed the ugliest
>>>car ever made, and I think the winner (by leaps & bounds) was a
>>>French car, I think a Renault 6.  Or, any Citroen (i.e. 2CV to CX)

>>French cars have a totally different aesthetic, I don't think it's fair
>>to compare them if you don't speak fluent French and enjoy dry red wine.
>>Also, the 2CV is a Renault, not a Citroen.

>NO! The 2CV (or duck how it's called in german speeking countries) is 
>a Citroen. 

>Peter
To his credit, Renault did make a version of the 2CV with a different
body, but the original 2CV is most certainly a Citroen.

-- 
Graham E. Thomas
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!grahamt
Internet: grahamt@oit.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Originator: kevinh@nath
Reply-To: kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:26:46 GMT


In article <lmbgg0INNou5@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
|> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
|> >
|> >Some car magazine I checked during lunch actually discussed the ugliest
|> >car ever made, and I think the winner (by leaps & bounds) was a
|> >French car, I think a Renault 6.  Or, any Citroen (i.e. 2CV to CX)
|> 
|> French cars have a totally different aesthetic, I don't think it's fair
|> to compare them if you don't speak fluent French and enjoy dry red wine.
|> Also, the 2CV is a Renault, not a Citroen.

The 2CV is definitely a Citroen. They had their world meet near here last
year (Susten Pass). Millions of the damn things around!! Hate them.

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:19:51 GMT
Organization: National Institute of Standards & Technology

In article <C1FJxL.2rz@ssesco.com> nau@ssesco.com (William Nau) writes:
>Ken Rothman <krothman.727987654@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> writes:
>> With all the advances in aerodynamics and ergonomics in design in the past ten
>> years (mostly on the part of European and Japanese makers), this beast is an
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Apparently the Ford Taurus had little influence on the shape of cars today.
>In my opinion there is no car that has had a greater influence on the vast
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^           
>improvements of aerodynamics than the Taurus.
>                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^    
>-- 
>William R. Nau
>Supercomputer Systems Engineering and Services Company (SSESCO)
>511 11th Avenue South, Suite 216
>Minneapolis, Minnesota 55415-1536
>(612) 342-0003
>
>nau@SSESCO.com


Not this again!  Correct me if i'am wrong, but didn't the Audi 5000
have this rounded shape long before the Taurus?

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -                                   -
       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------
From: ga22+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gary Paul Atcheson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock blues
Date: 23 Jan 93 18:49:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.AfMVzZu00iV3Q4z7Mk
Organization: Freshman, Architecture, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

theckel@col.hp.com (Tim Heckel) writes:
>What happens is an incredibly loud grinding noise
>that I can also feel in the brake pedal whenever
>the antilock is engaged.  It's so violent a combination

Unlike most, the GM ABS VI makes almost no noise and the only change in
the pedal is that it is slightly firmer.  In some ways I wish it made
MORE noise (or had a light or something) to let me know that it is in
operation.  So far, I have only engaged it a few times (this is the
car's second winter), but I knew each time that it was engaged.  More
obvious warning of the ABS operation seems essential in my opinion,
though grinding is hardly the answer.

Gary Atcheson
Freshman Architect at Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: pacyga@rtsg.mot.com (Jim Pacyga)
Subject: Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee?
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:31:15 GMT

Some stuff people wrote...
>>I have heard overall good reviews of the new Grand Cherokee, and plan to
>>invest in one later this summer.  The "dismal" repair record that CR stated
>>was in reflection to the old Cherokee model.  The only similarity between
..deleted..
>The Cherokees have been in production for almost 10 years.  Why haven't the
>bugs been shaken out of it?  It, too, was hailed by the automotive press, and
>single-handedly started the down-sized "SUV" revolution in the early 80s.  It
>won Car-of-The-Year awards frome everyone.
>
>Yet the lemons continued to roll of the assembly line.
>
>I bought a new 1992 Jeep Wrangler.  Lemon city.
>
In continuing to speak of Jeep Cherokees, I believe that the quality was
supposedly improved greatly when Chrysler bought Jeep.  We have a 1987
Cherokee Pioneer that is pretty much loaded and have had relatively few 
problems.  It has proved to be a pretty worthwhile vehicle and the re-sale
value is better than my '90 SHO even though it is two years older!

Jim

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: paul@sealion.tdd.sj.nec.com (Paul Gordon  x3856)
Subject: trading in a high value car
Organization: NEC-AM TDD, San Jose, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:10:48 GMT



  I am about to trade my present car - a 300ZX TT - for something a little
more practical. I am considering a 4x4, maybe a 4Runner, Grand Cherokee or
Explorer. The value of the 300ZX is very close to the price of these vehicles.
I have been told that dealers can be very hesitant to except a traded car of
a similar value to the one being sold. Is this correct? Has anyone any direct
experience? If so, is there anything I should be aware of when trying to
complete the deal?
  Also, can anyone (in CA) confirm that sales tax will be levied against
the difference between the trade-in and new car value? Is this also true
of the special taxifornia car taxes?

  Thanks,

    Paul
From: erich.lim@yob.sccsi.com (Erich Lim) 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: RE: 93 1/2 INTEGRA.
Date: 27 Jan 93 12:12:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ye Olde Bailey BBS - Houston, TX - 713-520-1569
Reply-To: erich.lim@yob.sccsi.com (Erich Lim) 

foo26860@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (KGBISHOP) writes:
-> I read in CR that the Integra will be redesigned for 93.  I asked the
-> local dealer who confirmed that the new design would appear in mid
-> 93, but he couldn't give any more details about it.  Does anyone know
-> what changes will occur on the 93 1/2 Integra?

  Well, the 93' models are already in the dealers and so are the
brochures.  It's a carry over from the 92' Design.  As for the new body
style, yes there is one.  But, it'll most likely be a 94' model or may
be a 95' even.  Most Honda's change shapes every 4-5yrs, and since the
current is from 90', it's about time.
  From what I've heard on the new body style, it's supposed to be more
rounded (like it really needs to be, I think my 91' is good enough!).
It's supposed to be a messed up front.  The headlights are supposed to
be receeded and built-into the hood, and the headlights are supposed to
look somewhat like what's on the Del Sol (Ugly!)  It's supposed to take
a little bit more of a lower stance and a more rounded out back and a
bigger engine (still a V4 though)  )-:   That's all I know about the new
Integra's, but whatever they do, they DEFINETLY need a new engine since
the current engine is maxed out and nothing more can be done..


Erich.
erich.lim@yob.sccsi.com
                                                                                                                
----
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ye Olde Bailey BBS   713-520-1569 (V.32bis) 713-520-9566 (V.32bis)     |
|   Houston,Texas          yob.sccsi.com       Home of alt.cosuard       |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: lenivch@maclaurin.mit.edu (Witold Biedrzycki)
Subject: Re: getting tree sap off car body
Organization: MIT Department of Mathematics, Cambridge, MA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:55:40 GMT

In article <1k1lorINNdp@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> fins@radgumbo.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>
>Anyone have any hints or tip on removing tree sap
>drops of the body of the car???
>

Alcohol dissolves tree sap. I have no idea as to how it acts on paint,
though, I used it only to get tree sap off the clothing

Witold
From: greis@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gayla Ann Greis)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Speeding ticket in OKlahoma --- what's SP8?
Date: 24 Jan 1993 05:29:45 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: greis@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: greis@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <1993Jan23.191153.6674@borland.com>, by dave@borland.com (Dave):

> In article <1993Jan20.174211.14992@microware.com> troyf@microware.com (Troy Frericks) writes:
>>There are two schools of thought when it comes to fighting speeding tickets:
>>1) pay it, it's not worth the time to fight.  Consider it random road-use-tax.

Uh, There are 3 schools...

The third is to accept reality that you were caught being bad, make
restitution, and not make the same mistake in the future.

> 	It isn't the price of the ticket this gets me going. I consider
> 	the whole idea of speeding tickets as revenue enhancement at the
> 	cost of the average joe citizen. The things that really kills me

Why, YOURE RIGHT! They're the government! Why do they need money from
us, joe citizens? Hell they can just PRINT MORE!

> 	is that the price of the ticket is usually the least of my worries.
> 	I worry about how many YEARS I will pay HUNDREDS of dollars to the
> 	insurance company all because some town/state needed some money so
> 	they sent the tax troopers, exceuse me .. police, out to raise some
> 	money.

Hmmm, that we share... The price of your ticket is the least of my
worries as well... I worry about you causing some accident because you
are of superior driving ability and know it. Some poor old man who
(*OBVIOUSLY*) doesn't belong on the highway in the first place might
be so taken aback by suddenly seeing you come up on him, he might
swerve and hit someone else while you're long gone and don't know
the difference... Or better yet, while you're doing 60+ in your favorite
construction zone, you just happen to take out one of those careless
workers who didn't belong there in the first place! (Damn! They should
have KNOWN *YOU* were coming and got the hell out of the way!)

Do I speed? Sure. Once upon a time I racked up quite a few tickets.
I haven't had one in over 5 years. It's not only made me slow down,
but I pay a LOT more attention to EVERYTHING going on in the road.
That includes other cars and who's out there as well. When I see a
cop, I slow down even more. I keep to the right as much as is possible.
I flash my lights on/off when I want to pass and traffic is heavy.
I often accelerate out of dangerous situations, rather than getting
myself smack dab in the middle of them...

You may think I'm a jerk for writing this, but I hope that this
ticket makes you think before you get behind the wheel - and while
you're at it! 

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: alavigne@bmerh930.bnr.ca (Andrew Lavigne)
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Organization: Bell Northern Research
	<frank.727928633@kynok.ucs.ubc.ca> <C1Fx3B.Kxq@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:35:12


>    Oh, forgot to add another $.02 to the earlier reply:
>
>    My nominee:  EVERY Honda built to sell in the US since 1989.  Entirely
>    too slow...  And no power.  I hate it, but I'll take my dad's '88 Camry
>    I-4 anyday when given a choice with an Accord.  I'll take a Saturn SL2
>    or Sentra SE-R over ANY Civic, including the Del Sol, which makes the
>    Miata look positively fast.  And, last but not least, a Probe or MX-6
>    over any Prelude.  [ plus more stuff ...]

If you mean speed wise, I believe the Prelude VTEC is faster than the Probe 
or MX-6.  Styling wise, well, I guess the rear end and the dash are ugly - 
redesign them, though, and I'd take one.

Andrew
alavigne@bnr.ca

Newsgroups: rec.autos