HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM (Jim Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Guidance
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:54:50 GMT
Reply-To: <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.


>In article <10490022@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM> bo@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Bo Viger)
writes:
>>
>>We share a launch site with RC hobbists in an out-of-town (actually, middle-
>>of-a-wheat-field) "failed" commercial development; read: isolated asphalt
>>road, no buildings, no trees.
>>
>>They typically stay around their end of the road, and us around ours. ONE of
>>those guys, however, insists on flying directly overhead of our launchers
>>over and over again (4-5 times last Sunday). Now this wheat field's about
>>1 mile on a side, and we're 1/4 to 1/2 mile away from this dude, but he 
>>just won't "buzz off"! 

I wonder whether the AMA codes have anything about this!
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: parachute 101
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:59:16 GMT

Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu () writes:

: > >Any help would be greatly appreciated along with any tips on judging
: > >the wind and how far the rocket should be angled into it - as well
: > >as predicting where the rocket may land.
: > >
: > I'll leave that one for another..
: > 
: I've never been good at that one.  Some times I luck out and get it right, 
: more often I have a long walk, but I need the execsise any way.

As soon as you angle the rocket into the wind, you are increasing the
amount of weathercocking that will occur. At that point, all bets are
off - there is no way to predict the distance upwind the rocket will
travel.

Best guesses occur when you angle the rocket a bit downwind, to counter
the weathercocking. This produces vertical flights, when calculate right.
Unfortunately, it also tends to mean a long walk to recover the rocket,
if the wind is blowing very strongly.  It means really long walks for
high-power rockets.  However, I have never had a chute stripped with
a vertical launch.  I have with launches angled upwind - the rocket tends
to stay ballistic and still traveling fast when at the top of the arc.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk)
Subject: Re: Sunsite ftp archive
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:36:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.162615.15223@njitgw.njit.edu> dmu5391@hertz.njit.edu (david m utidjian esc stnt) writes:
>In article <29SEP199212485588@vx.cis.umn.edu> soc1070 writes:
>>Has anyone else had problems with the ftp archive? The first time I 
>>uploaded stuff, it went fine. Today I was going to send text files
>>of the last Picayune but wouldn't accept the upload.
>
>Yeah I have had problems with sunsite....
>I ftp'ed anonymously to sunsite yesterday.... there was nothing
>in the uploads directory.
>I tried to get some of the programs from the /pub/.../.../r.m.r
>directory and was told "permission denied".
>
>There may be stuff there but we can not get it.
>
>There is a bunch of stuff missing from the old archive on calvin,
>I will be happy to upload what copies I have, if and when sunsite
>becomes funtional.
>
>>Tim Harincar				Kill Your Television.			
>
>David Utidjian

The above is correct!  The r.m.r archive site "SunSite.UNC.EDU"
suffered a few porblems in the past two days.  This is a new
system and may have a few more bugs.  Everything should be
OK at the moment.  I have just sucessfully down loaded
a file so I know that it is working!  All uploads should now
be placed in the directory "/uploads/rockets".  When
uploading a file please send me an email note so that I can
move it to the appropriate place in the archive.  If you do
not send me a note the file will remain in the uploads directory
until I find it. Note: files in the uploads area can not be downloaded.
I would also appreciate a short (one or two line) description of
the file(s) that you are uploading.  This will make it easier to
compile an archive info sheet for posting.

Thanks 

Bob
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert B. Sisk  PhD			Internet: rbs@virginia.edu
NAR #53448				UUCP:     uunet!virginia!rbs
TRIPOLI #1583                           CIS:      71501.1651@CompuServe.COM
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano)
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Organization: RIT Research Corp
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:12:16 GMT

In article <19921002165451.Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu> <Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu>  (Roger Wilfong) writes:
 
>> 1/4A Parachute Duration Multi-Round, to be changed to 1/2A if 1/4A's
>>                go off the market.
>> 1/2A Streamer Duration Multi-Round
>I hope the contest board changes these two events.  With 60 second MAXes in 
>first three rounds (120 if 1/2A PD) there are going to be a lot of people in
>the fourth, fifth and sixth rounds.  (My NARTREK Bronze streamer flight was 
>almost a minute with a 1/2A in rotten air using a stock Estes BT-5 model and 
>12" of crep.)

A typical time for 1/2A SD in "bad air" is about 35 seconds for competitive
models. You probably had a hot engine. Anyway, congratulations on a great
flight!

>> A Payload
>   
>Not a bad choice for a small field, but judging from NARAM-33, they better 
>order multiples of the trophies.  There will be a lot of ties.

Okay. We'll remember that we heard it here first, from you.

>> D Dual Egg Lofting Duration (provisional event)
>The only problem with ELD is that you use a big chute for a long duration.
>If you come down fast enough that you break the egg(s), you're probably not
>competitive any way.  ELA is a better event.

I don't know what you mean about this being a problem. Dual egglofting is a
very challenging event; are you trying to say that chute size will be the
determining factor? I disagree. Recovery isn't the only phase that claims eggs,
particularly in dual egg. Believe me, I've broken more than my share. :-)

A couple of provisionals, a few standbys, a couple we see only infrequently --
sounds like a great card!
From: paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Tripolitan/High Power Rocketry
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:38:04 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Taniwha Systems Design, Oakland CA

I just noticed a couple of copies of the Tripolitan/High Power Rocketry in
the new Barnes & Noble bookstore on Shattuck Ave in Berkeley - if you are
interested but don't want to join Tripoli just yet check it out ....
or maybe there's a B&N near you that has it too

	Paul

-- 
Paul Campbell    UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul     AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P
	
       	So far the Republican's economic policy is best described
		     as "C'est la vie Capitalism"
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: salmon@cfht.hawaii.edu (Rick Salmon)
Subject: test
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 07:16:27 GMT


This is just a silly test.  Sorry guys, but I'm try'in to figure this news
thing out !!!!
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Subject: Wadding
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:09:35 GMT

In all the recent discussion on baffles for ejection charge protection,
a passing mention was made of using cellulose insulation instead of the
usual TP wadding, lettuce leaves or fiberglass.  I assume that this is
just the stuff available in bags at Home Depot/Builder's Square that
looks like partially digested and dried newspaper?  I'm building my
first HP rocket (LOC Graduator) and any light and low cost replacement
for Estes/Quest TP is attractive.

-- 
    Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
  hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov - I speak only for myself, unless blah, blah..
   Papoon for President - You Know He's Not Insane! - Endorsed by the
  American Friends of the Martian Space Party, League of Winged Voters
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Sunsite ftp archive
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:48:00 GMT

Has anyone else had problems with the ftp archive? The first time I 
uploaded stuff, it went fine. Today I was going to send text files
of the last Picayune but wouldn't accept the upload.


Tim Harincar				Kill Your Television.			
Central Minnesota 		
Association of Rocketry		
soc1070@vx.acs.umn.edu
From: alfa@csource.oz.au (glenn durden)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Larger engines
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 16:08:46 +1000
Reply-To: alfa@csource.oz.au
Organization: Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia

I'm looking for a source for engine sizes larger than 'D' size
here in Australia.
 If anyone can point me to a supplier (preferably in the Melbourne
area) it would be much appreciated.





GD

.........................................................
glenn durden
alfa@csource.oz.au  Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
The opinions expressed above are that of the author only.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Jim Cook <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Subject: Re: Cox rockets?
Reply-To: <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:26:04 GMT

In article <BvGF7K.AMA@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
(Iskandar Taib) writes:

>|Now, my question is: did Cox change the design on the P-40 model or what?
>|I remembered mine as somewhat larger and more substantial than the one I
>|saw at the dime store recently. Enquiring minds want to know.
>
>Don't remember - most of the nicer Cox plastic kits are gone. 

This question was asked before, though regarding the plastic Cox rockets
the thread started with.  In the case of the rockets, I believe I read
they are using the original plastic molds, unchanged.  They didn't reissue
one particular kit because the mold was in poor shape.

Jim
 
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:36:04 GMT

soc1070 writes:
: > 
: >Imagine for a moment that you are doing check-in duty.  Some fellow
: >comes up to you flying E Altitude with an E-to-G casing installed in
: >his model.  "It's loaded with an E24, trust me."  Pop quiz: can you 
: >foresee any problems that you don't have today with disposables?
: 
: I would have to look at the charred runes of one of my relaods, but
: there might be a way to tell *after* the model is returned by 
: examining the internals. Maybe the CD could mark the outside of the
: insulating sleeve - that usually comes back pretty much in one piece.

Another possibility would be to put a seal on the casing - then weigh
it before launch. The casing must be returned for weighing - after the
launch. All that would be needed then was a published maximum weight
of propellant limit.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: <Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu>  (Roger Wilfong)
Subject: Re: parachute 101
Organization: UofM Hospitals
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:26:00 GMT

In Article <1992Sep30.144200.1539@HQ.Ileaf.COM> "hal@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Hal Wadleigh)" says:
> 
> Other hints:
> 1. Use fisherman's snap swivels for your attachments.  It lets you store
>    'chutes separate from rockets and helps prevent fouling due to spin at
>    deployment.
> 
Another 'removable' attachment option is to use a loop of braided fishing 
line in place of a snap swivel.  For competition models it's a lot lighter
than the snap swivel.  Attach the shroud lines to the loop using Estes' 
instructions - just pretend the loop is the nose cone eyelet.  Attach the 
loop to the nose cone using the same instructions - just pretend the loop is
now the shroud lines.  For sport models you can use 50-200 pound line 
depending on the weight of the model - for competition 10-20 pound is fine.
 
This doesn't provide the swivel action of the snap swivel, but if the chute
and or model are spinning fast enough to twist up the lines, there is 
something else wrong.
  
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: hal@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Hal Wadleigh)
Subject: Re: parachute 101
Summary: hints
Keywords: chute construction
Reply-To: hal@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Hal Wadleigh)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 14:42:00 GMT
Expires: 10/30/92

The "3-lobe" shroud line arrangement is, indeed, the best method for making
a minimum of differences in shroud line length in a hex parachute.  When you
attach the 'chute to the nose cone or swivel clip, put your finger into each
loop and tug the 'chute from the middle.  This evens out the differences in
shroud length so that your finger is now the middle of each loop.

Other hints:
1. Use fisherman's snap swivels for your attachments.  It lets you store
   'chutes separate from rockets and helps prevent fouling due to spin at
   deployment.
2. Use nylon coat thread for shroud lines on homemade 'chutes (and plastic
   bread wrappers are the best cheap 'chute material).
3. Pay special attention to the security of the attachment points.  Those
   standard stickers often look secure, but are actually not attached.  A small
   knot in the part of the shroud line under the sticker serves as a good
   anchor point (with the rest of that part looped around the knot, as per
   standard practice).
4. Very small 'chutes should be crossform type.  Cut about a 5" square, then 
   take out about 1.25" squares from each corner.  Attach 4 lobes of shroud
   across the flat ends and secure as above.  Be careful to use small stickers
   for the corner attachments.  These make good substitutes for streamers in
   .5" body tubes and can also be used as drogues to help in the deployment of
   large 'chutes.
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:54:16 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <26SEP199209540130@vx.cis.umn.edu>, soc1070 writes:

> Ok. Reloads were a poor choice for an example. I am not a avid competitor
> (but plan on getting more into it next year) and was not aware reloads
> were not contest certified. However, they probably will be at some
> point.(?) [Help me on this one - are they likey NOT to be contest 
> certified?]

Imagine for a moment that you are doing check-in duty.  Some fellow
comes up to you flying E Altitude with an E-to-G casing installed in
his model.  "It's loaded with an E24, trust me."  Pop quiz: can you 
foresee any problems that you don't have today with disposables?

> I mean that determining events needs to be an ongoing process of change
> that also reflects the current state of the hobby. Sure, have the
> standard battery of A-C PD, BG, EL, Altitude, etc. But throw in one or
> two new things. If they work, try 'em again next year. If they don't,
> try something different. 

There is no "standard battery" at a NARAM.  World Championships are
stuck flying the same five or six events in the same engine class over 
and over, apparently, but NARAMS have the opposite behavior.  There are 
so many events and engine classes that the "popular" ones may come up
every three years, while the "unpopular" ones may wait 10 years between
NARAMS.  Yes, there is always "a" scale flown, and "an" altitude, and
a couple of gliders, and "an" eggloft, but there is a big difference
between, say, B Eggloft Duration and F Eggloft Altitude, etc.  This
year there were two Super Scale competitors.  The last time Super Scale
was held, there were dozens.  The sample space of one NARAM is hardly
evidence that you should throw an event out when the next time you
would fly it anyway might be six years later.  (Anyone remember the
last time Drag Race was flown at a NARAM?  It was before my time, and
I go back to NARAM-16 in 1974.)
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:37:00 GMT

In article <6807@transfer.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes...
>In article <26SEP199209540130@vx.cis.umn.edu>, soc1070 writes:
> 
>> Ok. Reloads were a poor choice for an example. I am not a avid competitor
>> (but plan on getting more into it next year) and was not aware reloads
>> were not contest certified. However, they probably will be at some
>> point.(?) [Help me on this one - are they likey NOT to be contest 
>> certified?]
> 
>Imagine for a moment that you are doing check-in duty.  Some fellow
>comes up to you flying E Altitude with an E-to-G casing installed in
>his model.  "It's loaded with an E24, trust me."  Pop quiz: can you 
>foresee any problems that you don't have today with disposables?

I would have to look at the charred runes of one of my relaods, but
there might be a way to tell *after* the model is returned by 
examining the internals. Maybe the CD could mark the outside of the
insulating sleeve - that usually comes back pretty much in one piece.

Ed LaCroix called me this morning and we discussed this a bit as well.
He said he has been talking with a couple of the organizers and said
that one of the reasons for the events as determined is the size of
the flying field - I guess its pretty small (~84 acres). The only
event that was changed (that Ed knew about) for cost reasons was dual eggloft
 - from C to D. This was because there is almost no way for a BP C5 to compete
against a C10 [Ed's ego getting bigger here... :) ]; and a D12 would fair
better against the composites.

Tim Harincar			"Always listen to experts.			
Central Minnesota 		They'll tell you what can't
Association of Rocketry		be done and why. Then do it."
soc1070@vx.acs.umn.edu			-Lazarus Long
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: wayne@uva386.schools.virginia.edu (Tony Wayne)
Subject: Re: parachute 101
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Charlottesville)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 23:28:40 GMT

I have heard some good comments about making parachutes.  For what it's
worth, here is my 2 cents. For a little color use the *light*
weight plastic "throw away" table cloth that is availible from
party supply stores or the party supply section of a
supermarket.  They come in colors like blue, red, yellow,
green, etc.
-Tony Wayne
From: iqv@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: what are payloads for?
Date: 27 Sep 92 20:41:19 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

What do people do with a payload, besides cameras?  Are there any cool things
to send up, or what?
					david
From: mrubin@ra.cs.umb.edu (Mark Rubin)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: parachute 101
Date: 28 Sep 92 04:59:02 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

I just got back into model rockets after about a 10 year break. Any help
on the correct, sure-fire method of connecting parachutes would be great.

On my launches today the parachutes worked good except in one case where it 
didn't open all the way. I knew it was gonna happen b4 launch because there 
was a small knot among tangled shroud line. It came down faster but with no
damage. The problem was maybe that the lower 1/4-1/3 of the shroud line 
closest to the nose cone was tangled - on both rockets. Maybe with more care
this could have been prevented, but I kind of had a problem from the beginning
with the way the instructs told of attaching the shroud line to the chute.

Here's a stupid diagram of the way it tells ya:

		1          2
	       ______________
	      /	x	   x \
	     /		      \
	 3  / x		     x \ 4
	    \		       /
	     \  x	   x  /
	   5  \______________/  6


Connect:  1 -> 2
	  3 -> 5
	  4 -> 6

The lines do not line up with each other. If you put the 3 -> 5 and 4 -> 6
together, then when joining 1 -> 2 with the others it obviously has to be
twisted which could be detrimental to the correct operation of the chute.

Would it be better to connect them like this?

	1 -> 2
	3 -> 4
	5 -> 6

Making 3 -> 4 a little longer than the others (haven't worked out the
exact measurements yet).

Any help would be greatly appreciated along with any tips on judging
the wind and how far the rocket should be angled into it - as well
as predicting where the rocket may land.

Thanks alot!

-Mark
-- 
==========================================================================
|| Mark Rubin		|| Don't let your schooling interfere with	||
|| mrubin@ra.cs.umb.edu	|| your education.				||
|| UMass/Boston		|| 			-Mark Twain		||
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: parachute 101
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:28:52 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <28SEP199209401461@vx.cis.umn.edu>, soc1070 writes:
> In article <1992Sep28.045902.10967@cs.umb.edu>, mrubin@ra.cs.umb.edu (Mark Rubin) writes...
> >Here's a stupid diagram of the way it tells ya:
> > 
> >		1          2
> >	       ______________
> >	      /	x	   x \
> >	     /		      \
> >	 3  / x		     x \ 4
> >	    \		       /
> >	     \  x	   x  /
> >	   5  \______________/  6
> > 
> > 
> >Connect:  1 -> 2
> >	  3 -> 5
> >	  4 -> 6
> > 
> >Would it be better to connect them like this?
> > 
> >	1 -> 2
> >	3 -> 4
> >	5 -> 6
> > 
> >Making 3 -> 4 a little longer than the others (haven't worked out the
> >exact measurements yet).
> 
> Unless this is a weird manufacturer, the 'chute should be a perfect
> hexigon. If the chute is any regular, even sided polygon (4,6,8,10
> sides) all the lines will work out to be the same length.

No, read what he's saying.  If two of the loops span only hexagon
EDGES, while the third loop spans its DIAMETER, the third loop will
obviously be shortchanged when it comes time to meet at the screw-eye.
So he proposed making it a litle longer.  Me, I think this is overkill
anyway, since I haven't gotten shroud lines to come out equally in 25
years.

I always attach mine 1-6, 3-4, and 2-5.  Why?  Because then I can
"balance" the parachute so that it does not pull to either side.  If
it pulls in one direction, I slide that line to lengthen it and 
shorten the opposite side.  Yes, the lines don't always come out 
even with EACH OTHER, but opposing pairs always come out even.  You
can test the parachute's side pull simply by pulling it upward with
your hand.  When I can pull it upward and it no longer takes off to
any side, I book it and ship it.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:33:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: RIT Research Corp

In article <45522@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM> msjohnso@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson) writes:

>None that can't be solved by the judicious use of a triple-beam balance.
>The weight differences between the various total impulses in this specific
>case are O(20 grams). I for one don't really care what propellant formula
>the modeler is using, so long as I know the motor is no heavier than the
>heaviest E motor.

Nice idea, but falls completely apart once we examine the facts. The specific
impulse of BlackJack propellant is about one-third less than that of
Blue Thunder and White Lightning. One could easily have a G which is no
heavier than the heaviest F. One could easily have a 55 NS F which is no
heavier than the heaviest E. A triple-beam balance, or an analytic balance,
for that matter, is completely inadequate for the purpose.

> Anyway, what happened to the proposal to further develop
>Dan Wolf's NARAM-33 project with automated tracking data reduction, to get
>it to a point where it could be set up and used even at a regional meet?

Dan's system has been used at regional and section meets in the past year,
in essentially the same form as was demonstrated at NARAM 33. There are
plans to upgrade the system with shortwave radio links between the stations
and the base, but the existing system has already been employed at regional
and local meets.

John Viggiano, jsvrc@rc.rit.edu
NAR 25615
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets