HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kts@philabs.philips.com (Kimberley T. Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: "Giving up" Marraige
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:07:14 GMT
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, New York

Peg writes:

>it seems to me that asking people to give up
>marriage because you can't have it is a bit 
>akin to the fox and the grapes.  

>and it also seems to me that for all those 
>who can to refuse to marry until everyone can
>instead of getting marriage rights for all 
>may actually aid in the destruction of marriage
>as an institution, and any good that it contains. 

To whine a bit:
whether it sounds like the fox and the grapes, IT'S NOT FAIR that only some
people have the privilege.

SERIOUSLY:  governmental advocacy of heterosexuality only serves to
produce and feed the social mentalities that are the foundation of all personal
prejudices, insecurities, superier attitudes, and fear of difference that
results in gaybashing, etc.  

therefore, i think that the benefits of the institution of heterosexual
marriage are small compared to the dangerous attitudes it generates in its
social culture.


-- Ideally, everyone will have equal rights by allowing all consenting partners
to marry regardless of their sex or by providing services and financial support
making it unnecessary to marry for financial reasons.

-- Realistically, nothing is going to change soon, especially since we are
working from within the system, and it's true that marriage may make life
easier, i.e. raising children unmarried vs. married.

Do what you need to do, but don't sacrifice your beliefs to do it.  If you
can't reconcile yourself with your actions, then do something to work towards
your ideal at least.

If it makes you happier as a woman to live the life of a Hacedic Jew where
your work is "different but equally important" (the argument i've heard to
explain the conversion of down-right-feminists to judaism) instead of being
the brunt of your culture's socially-construed superior-inferior attitudes/
beliefs, then, okay.  But...

***  please don't give up on your ideals!  ***

Work from within your advantageous lifestyle, make use of the benefits
available to you, to plan for a better world for our children and our earth.

oh yeah,  and read "Daughters of Copper Woman" too!  (I'll get the author's
name to send later if anyone is interested.)  I have a crazy vision of Hacedic
Jewesses writing literature to start a process of re-molding the social
mentalities of school children to re-form our culture leaving no room for
racism, sexism, heterosexism, ageism, classism, or any social hierarchy.  Of
course, we'll also need people to teach the literature and social values...


A world of writers, teachers, singers, dancers, musicians, artists....

PEOPLE!!!

to change the world; make it better for all people to live in.


--kim
-------------
e-mail c/o: philabs!nrh@uunet.uu.net
school e-mail: KSMITH@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans)
Subject: Re: Announcing...
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:22:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.183832.27922@amhux2.amherst.edu> twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.133517.4423@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>
>>From page 134 of "The Kinsey Institute New Report on Sex"...
>>
>>Q: I'm a woman who wants to know how many calories there are in a single
>>   sperm ejaculate of the average male.
>>
>>A: There are approximately five calories in the amount of semen usually
>>   ejaculated.
>>
>
>There is a popular urban myth about a woman whose doctor prescribed a
>strict vegetarian diet for weight loss.  [etc.]
>

Guaranteed true:  A good friend of mine from college (if you're out
there, Folly N., Hi!) was diagnosed as diabetic.  Diet control and
calorie counting being a _very_ important part of controlling one's
progress, she had to ask her nutritionist about the consequences of
swallowing.

El
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Iverson Notation (was: The War Between Us (Long))
Keywords: Just a harmless little old survey...
Date: 16 Aug 92 03:14:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <p64nbwqz@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
+In article <36738@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark) writes:
+
+>Does masturbating in front of a 11/34 and a 11/23 count? (Sort of
+>quantity, not quality in autoeroticism).
+
+Amazing! were you trying to appease ODT, or what?

In the case of the 11/34, worse than you can imagine. Ever hear of
DIBOL-11?? Further in this sordid tale, getting a Z-80 emulator to
run CPM on a PDP-11 running RT-11, so there was a DDT as well, in a
law firm in a large building in downtown San Francisco.


It must have been the fog....

-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Marraige and Apartheid
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 16:40:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.191003.28368@midway.uchicago.edu> pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>i know i promised to shut up on this one, but...
>
>how many american white folks who truly believed blacks
>had the right to vote quit voting to make a point?  

On the other hand, how many black folks stopped riding the bus?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: queer marriage - personal problem
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 11:10:07 GMT

In <1992Aug15.181455.353@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
moselecw@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (C.W. Moseley) writes:
>[A female friend is about to get married; not as a life-long
>commitemnet, but rather as an "in 'yer face" activist tactic. Moz has
>been invited but doesn't feel comfortable with the idea.]

There are many ways in which one can be an activist and further the
cause of GLBO liberation: 'in yer face tactics, kiss-ins, writing
polite letters to politicians or to express gratitude to TV stations
which show GLBO programmes, outing, stuffing envelopes and making
sandwiches at a local GLBO group, working on a telephone support line,
wearing button-badges and t-shirts, generally being out in day-to-day
life, writing letters to newspapers about GLBO issues, challenging
people who make anti-GLBO remarks or jokes, writing a book... The list
is endless.

All of the above methods have their uses _and_ limitations. Some are
more effective than others in different circumstances. More importantly,
some people are comfortable with one method but not with another.

Your friend, Q, likes 'in yer face tactics but you don't. Fine. The
solution is simple. Explain to Q that you are not comfortable with the
idea of the wedding as a political statement and hence you will not take
part. She can do what she is comfortable with and you will do what you
are comfortable with. One thing, though: it is important _not_ to argue
with Q about the merits (or lack thereof) of her activist tactics.
Arguing is (i) unlikely to change her mind, (ii) waste energy of both of
you, (iii) contribute to early "burnout" due to feelings of hurt and
betrayal, and (iv) put a strain on your relationship.

Accept that others have radically different (and often, conflicting)
activist tactics to you. You don't have to agree with them---just accept
them. Then go about your own business. You'll feel much better about
it.

In summary, I'll answer the question at the start of your posting.

>Hi people, currently I am in a bit of a dilemma. A brief summary is:
>"should queers do mock marriages just to highlight the injustice of
>the law relating to hetersexual marriages?"

There won't be universal agreement on this so stay clear of the
argument. If you're not comfortable with mock weddings then don't
participate in them. But don't argue with other queers who think they
are a good idea. You do your thing and let them do theirs. In return,
they will hopefully not accuse you of wasting your time, say, writing
letters to politicians.


Ciaran
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
Xref: sparky soc.bi:10931 soc.motss:35482
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: queer marriage - personal problem
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:49:47 GMT
 <1992Aug17.111007.14097@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>
Organization: University of Maine System

should queers do mock marriages?

sure, why not?  sounds liek a blast to me, and i would give MUCH
to see the drag queen mother of the bride!  they have those in
portland every once in a while.

the whole patriarchal christian marriage thang NEEDS making fun
of and further eroding...
                                    -ailsa
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Tech Post, no content whatsoever (was Re: Alt.sex.wizards)
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:30:50 GMT

In article <Bsu745.C94@news.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov ( Scott Dorsey) writes:

>We can't go
>around admitting weirdo big-endian people in around here.  We have to
>draw the line somewhere, my friend.  If we let the big-endianists in,
>next thing we know the place will be full of stack machine groupies and
>the like.

First they came for big-endians,
    and I did not speak up because I used a VAX.
Then they came for MIMD machines,
    and I did not speak up because I use SIMD.
Then they came for segmented architectures,
    and I did not speak up because I page on demand.
Then they came for me,
    and by that time there was no
Bus error (core dumped).

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
From: chris@unicorn.resun.com (Chris Von Hendy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: New bi (like nubile) in NYC
Date: 17 Aug 92 02:46:07 GMT
Reply-To: chris@unicorn.resun.com
Organization: Metalogic, S.a r.l.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v3


In article <1992Aug14.000832.9020@cbnews.cb.att.com> (soc.bi), eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans) writes:
> 
> Actually, nubile is something almost, but not quite, entirely unlike
> tea, er, wait, wrong script, um, new bi--yeah, that's it.  (With
> significant apologies to Douglas Adams.)
> 
> Question:  where does a newly realized bisexual go to find herself a
> girlfriend in the NY/NJ area??  How about a community??

Sigh, I'm on the wrong coast again.  E-hugs and e-flirts are the best I
can manage.
> 
> El
> 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Von Hendy            "If we shadows have offended,
Escondido, California       Think but this, and all is mended,
ncr-sd!blkhole!chris  or    That you have but slumbered here,
chris@unicorn.resun.com     While these visions did appear." Puck
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: rhialto@cs.kun.nl (Olaf Seibert)
Subject: Re: Iverson Notation (was: The War Between Us (Long))
Keywords: Just a harmless little old survey...
Organization: Intravenous News Addicts
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:04:29 GMT

In article <5709@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> dente@els.ee.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente) writes:
>Colin
>Who has never had sex on a computer :-(
>Come to think of it, is that really such a sad thing?...

Try having sex _through_ a computer. Via irc channel #gblf, for example.
Can be quite interesting, too...
-- 
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert      B4f+-t-w--g+k+(+)svmrp+  rhialto@cs.kun.nl
\X/   It'sneveragoodideatoarriveinthepastwithyourpantsaroundyourknees -Sam
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: beezer@cc.utah.edu (BEEZER)
Subject: [REQUEST]:  COMING-OUT PRIMER ?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Salt Lick, UT
Date: 18 Aug 1992 00:13 MST  

________________________________________________________________________

Someone that I have met recently is in the coming-out process (sort of).
He recently told his girlfriend, and she's fine with it.  Actually,
he's been researching bisexuality for quite sometime and would like to
make a movie of it... but in the mean time, he has his own coming-out
issues to deal with.

So, all support/movement/reading-material info that can be directed
this way would be most appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Announcing...
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:38:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: amhux2.1992Aug14.183832.27922
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA

In article <1992Aug11.133517.4423@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:

>From page 134 of "The Kinsey Institute New Report on Sex"...
>
>Q: I'm a woman who wants to know how many calories there are in a single
>   sperm ejaculate of the average male.
>
>A: There are approximately five calories in the amount of semen usually
>   ejaculated.
>
>No doubt, "this product will only be effective if used as part of a
>calorie-controlled diet." :-)

There is a popular urban myth about a woman whose doctor prescribed a
strict vegetarian diet for weight loss.  A few weeks later when she
returned for a checkup, he discovered that she hadn't lost an ounce,
and was certain she was cheating on the diet.  "Did you stray from the
diet I prescribed in any way?"

"Of course not!"

"Really, now.  Did you put ANYTHING in your body that wasn't on that
list?"

"Anything? ... Oh ... Well, I didn't know that THAT counted ..."

The woman, according to legend, was a prostitute, and daily swallowed
fifteen or twenty ejaculations.  Needless to say, her doctor revised
her prescription.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: queer brains?
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:22:25 GMT

silverma@nunki.usc.edu (David Silverman) writes:

>The way I see it, there is no proof that homosexuality is biological. There
>is way to prove which came first, the sexual orientation or the brain
>structure, from only one examination of each body. I don't think we know
>enough about the brain to say that it can't be changed by a persons actions.
I presume your second statement should read ``There is NO way tomprove which
came first..''. Actualy, I interviewed Dr. Roger A Gorski, for THIS WAY OUT
whilke I was in LA last week, and the interview aired on KPFK in lA last
Friday. It should also be around on THIS WAY OUT wherever you usually listen
to that show. Dr. Gorski is one of the co-authors of the recent UCLA study
which shows that there are some brain structures in the brain of homosexual
males that are larger than those for heterosexual males or females.

He also complained in my interview that it would be extremely difficult to  
discover which came first, the brain structures that cause sexual orientation
difference or if the sexual orientation difference alters the brain, 
especially fromjust looking at the corpses of people. He doubted that there 
would be venough interest to support monitoring people to see how their brain
and sexual orientation turn out...

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735.  ``D.C. in 93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"Dick--my bottom hurts just thinking about it!" - MADONNA, _Dick Tracy_ sndtrck
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: rhialto@falu.sneakernet (Olaf Seibert)
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Reply-To: rhialto@cs.kun.nl
Organization: Olaf's Own Amiga
X-Newsreader: Ann 0.8m
	<1992Aug2.195140.10557@news.acns.nwu.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:12:55 GMT


In article <1992Aug2.195140.10557@news.acns.nwu.edu>,
	jleduc@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (JonPaul Leduc) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.103659.3743@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>
>>True, to a large extent. But then some straight 'phobes see bisexuality
>>as an additional threat. It works like this:
>>
>>	If there are only two groups, straight and gay, then that
>>	permits a us-vs-them mentality. But when you connect these
>>	two camps together with the continuum of bisexuality the
>>	us-vs-them way of thinking becomes threatened.
>>
>>Ciaran.
>
>I think that this is the main focus of the "WAR".  Why do we find such a
>need to classify ourselves based on or sex habits.  Can't we just be
>attracted to who we are.  This continuum makes the strick hetero community
>have to look at attractions to friends and offspring in a sexual manner.
>The only problem is they look at it as sick.

I think the main problem is that there are many people who dislike
/anything/ that's "different". It starts in school; kids who don't follow
fashion and are wearing the "wrong" clothes, for example, are often nagged
about this. This may be extended to other kinds of "differentness", and
even become so extreme as to provoke violence towards people who don't
uphold "society's" "values" (whatever they may be, and whatever they may
actually be worth). Of course, they who do this are wrong and evil.[*]

[*] don't take this literally, of course! Add a :-(. The trouble with this
viewpoint is that you must be very careful not to do the same; this makes
it more difficult/complicated for myself to try to change the world than it
is for "them". I can only try to set an example, "they" can use violence.

>--Jean-Paul Leduc
-Olaf.
--
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert      B4f+-t-w--g+k+(+)svmrp+  rhialto@cs.kun.nl
\X/ How can you be so stupid if you're identical to me? -Robert Silverberg
From: Drakon@cup.portal.com (HARRY BENJAMIN GIBSON)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: the "oh" experience
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 16:44:25 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <1992Aug20.094449.14505@nwnexus.WA.COM> <asuccop.714348953@milton>
  <1992Aug21.233540.5758@midway.uchicago.edu>

There is something odd going on here.

It seems to me that kamel and Elf are argueing the same side of the question. 
In the subsequent attacks, we've all forgotten why the thread got started in 
the first place, which is to help Piglet. While both agree that what is needed
is comunication between Piglet and her Intended, the acual rules that they
have to work out is something they have to work out for themselves. Kamel 
recommends threesomes, Elf doesn't. Both have valid reasons for the way they
each has taken, and I doubt that kamel was accually attacking Elf's lifestyle.
(Even though I can see how Elf could feel defensive.)

Piglet, the only one that can work this out is you. Having a "primary" 
relationship does not mean that your "secondary" relationships ahve to be 
secondary except in name only. Threesomes can be fun if and only if all 
parties are having a good time and go into it with the proper attitudes. But,
if someone does not have the attitude or is doing it just because someone else
wants it, it can be a disaster.

If you decide to run your relationships in "paralell" as it were, this also
has its advantages and its pitfalls. Complete honesty and communication is
needed in this as well. 

Jelously is usually a sign of insecrurity. If one parter or the other is
feeling jelous, it means that partner needs a little extra TLC. Again i think
comunication is the best policy. Just be on the lookout for the green eyed
monster and take the apropriate actions. (This does not include flying 
crockery:)

Now Elf, you and Kamel make nice and make up. Remember, we're all on the same
side here.

And welcome Omaha.

Ben Gibson
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: slh7q@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Suzanne Lacroix Hurley)
Subject: Bisexual Centrist Alliance
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 02:24:52 GMT

BISEXUAL? MONOGAMOUS? DUOGAMOUS? Feminist? Egalitarian? Want
social, political, literary, artistic, spiritual, bisexual subculture?
Write: BiCentrist Alliance (BCA), Post Office Box 2254,
Washington, D.C. 20013-2254, U.S.A., or call information
recording: (202) 828-3065. Free info packet.
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Prediction of the Republican National Convention
Organization: QueerNet
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 16:16:45 GMT

In article <64287@cup.portal.com> Drakon@cup.portal.com (HARRY BENJAMIN GIBSON) writes:
>The point I was attempting to make (and rather badly it would seem), is that
>i can't afford either. Every dollar taken from me and sent to Washington, or
>Sacramento for that matter, is one less dollar I have to put food on the table
>for my kids. Its one less dollar I have to clothe them. It makes it harder to
>go back to school or to afford a house or to give to charity. 

...but it is one more dollar that can subsidize your child's school lunch,
one more dollar that can subsidize your way through our (heavily assisted)
colleges, one more dollar that can subsidize some mortgages, one more
dollar that can support the members of our society that should be helped
by our government instead of pushing the burden off on charity.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Homoerotic bible quotes?
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:14:43 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Aug20.005828.4707@microsoft.com> georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly) writes:
+There's an old joke which goes:
+    Q.	How do you know Jesus was Irish?
+    A.	Because he lived at home with his mammy until he was 30,
+	and hung around with a dozen fellas.
+

I thought that was the Irish form of birth control.
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Sex and the Single Computer  (was: Iverson Notation (even
Keywords: Just a harmless little old survey...
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:56:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <BsvoE4.CID@news.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov ( Scott Dorsey) writes:
+
+Come to think of it, there are a number of nude photographs which were
+taken of me reclining on top of a pair of RM02 drives next to an 11/780.
+Definitely taken under duress; I was forced into the computer center in

Underdressed my foot..

+the dead of night by a friend with a Speed Graphic, back when I was a
+student.... wonder where those negatives are?


We won't believe until we have proof...
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
Xref: sparky soc.bi:11053 alt.polyamory:963