From: jblum@next00clab.wam.umd.edu (The Maven)
Subject: Re: random Ace bashing
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:06:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.232100.16528@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>  
as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) writes:
> In <16866@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog  
here...) writes:
 
> >In article <1992Nov5.175614.9564@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>  
as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) writes:
  
> >Adric was convincing... for a 14-year-old.  But the character was  
supposed
> >to be 16 or 17, and there's a WORLD of difference.  The immature  
whining and
> >"you're only a girl" put-downs of, say, "Four To Doomsday" were neither
> >accurate nor intelligent.
 
> They weren't dumb or intelligent; they were just sexist.  I know  
absolutely
> brilliant people who are also misogynists.  And I've known people my age  
who
> might act exactly like Adric...by the way, did we ever see his age
> mentioned?  Supposed to be 16 or 17, eh...is this canon?  (heh, heh)

Granted, it was sexist, but listen to the way Adric says "girrrr-ul."
It's straight out of junior high school.

And no, it's not canon, but the Davison-era "Doctor Who: The Making of
a Television Series" quotes Andrew Smith, who created Adric, and says
that he was 16.  So nyaah.
 
> >Adric had moments.  I really liked the character on his first  
appearance
> >in "Full Circle", and "Logopolis" and "Keeper of Traken" suggested a  
great
> >mentor-relationship with the Doctor.  "Earthshock" worked too.  But so
> >much of the rest of the time, he was either wasted, or acted so out of
> >character with those other stories that it makes me cringe.
 
> Your opinion.

Yes, Andrew, my opinion.  The whole paragraph you quoted is in terms of
"I liked" and "it makes me cringe".  Do I really need to add an IMHO?
 
> >Ace, on the other hand, has always had a consistent characterization,  
and
> >I _know_ sixteen- and seventeen-year-olds (at my sister's high school)  
who
> >have exactly that kind of "I've never had no mum and dad" attitude and
> >quick temper.  And best of all, she and Sylvester have developed  
exactly the
> >kind of mentor-student relationship that they tried and failed with  
Adric.
 
> Note: sixteen or seventeen year olds.  Wasn't that her mum who was a  
baby in
> WWII?  How old does this make Ace?

*My* mother was a baby in World War II.  In 1988, when Ace joined the
show, I was 16...

> >Ace, on the other hand, shows just as much reasoning ability in 
> >"Curse of Fenric", when she figures out the logic diagram, and she
> >acted a lot closer to her age.
 
> Really?  I thought she was pretty damned infantile usually.  How old is  
she
> supposed to be?  She usually acts about 15 herself.

..which is exactly how old Ace said she was in "Dragonfire".  Sixteen,
or presumably later seventeen, years old.

And could you cite any examples of "infantile" behavior, especially
more infantile than Adric whining and pouting his way through Monarch's
ship or mucking about in the TSS in "Kinda"?
 
> >>  Sure, he did some pretty dumb things
> >>from time to time, and the characterization was a bit unrealistic, but  
he
> >                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^
 
> >contradiction alert!  You just said Adric was a convincing portrayal.
> >Had to say it.  :-)
 
> No contradiction.  It was convincing...just unrealistic.  Think about  
it.

I'm thinking about it.  Convincing portrayal of a teenager... yet an
unrealistic portrayal of a teenager.  I think it was Douglas Adams who
said that the sign of intelligence was the ability to believe two
completely contradictory things at the same time, in which case I must
bow to your superior intellect.  :-)