HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bcohen@scherzo.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Bruce Cohen)
Subject: Re: Learning App Frameworks (was Re: THINK Class Library learning..)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:30:57 GMT
<1992Dec3.064131.23364@reed.edu> <Dec.3.13.57.31.1992.18090@gandalf.rutgers.edu>
<1992Dec4.081456.13906@reed.edu>
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corporation
Keywords: 
Followup-To:
From: dent@DIALix.oz.au (Andrew Dent)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Subject: more OOPC notes
Date: 11 Jan 1993 04:52:35 +0800
Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.dialix.oz.au
Summary: A rule-based response
Keywords: OOPC AI
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #1

G'day all

following is part of a response from emine, regarding my queries as to the
rule-based nature of OOPC. From looking at the demo, this could be quite
a simplifying paradigm, compared to some of TCL's internals:

"OOPC has rule-based control of menu enabling and cursor activation.  You can
merge rules (using AND and OR joins) to build a complex rule framework for
evaluation.  I have an AI background, which is why there are a lot of
high-concept features in OOPC.

There is a lot of depth to OOPC.  One aspect I like most is the event
handling.  The EventAgent has extensible, multiple-priority event queues,
where threading (and other tricks) are really easy to do.  No other class
library has anything like it.

"

Work on 4D & Fox (combined Yuck!) projects keeps me from trying OOPC for a
while, as well as our exchange rate hitting an all-time low! I'd love to 
hear more from people using the product.

Andy Dent (A.D. Software - Mac & VAX programming)
94 Bermuda Dve, BALLAJURA  Western Australia  6066
Phone/Fax: 09 249 2719 (local)  +619 249 2719 (International)
       Internet: dent@DIALix.oz.au    Compuserve: 100033,3241
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From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Subject: Re: Summary: I'm faint! I just saw the price for MPW!
Date: 23 Dec 92 18:49:07 GMT
<1992Dec11.155851.14862@walter.cray.com>  
<1gb6n9INNpmk@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>  
<1992Dec16.132756.20642@gssec.bt.co.uk> <lsr-181292122440@lsr.taligent.com>  
<1992Dec19.000239.1145
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Distribution: world
From: hades@Dartmouth.Edu
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:07:03 CDT
Subject: Re: Prograph

tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:

>hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>><IO92668@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>>>Another pro-Prograph newsgroup
>>    This newsgroup just started, and there has been basically no
>>discussion of Prograph in any of the Mac newsgroups to date. Why don't
>>we wait and see if the Prograph traffic actually warrants its own
>>newsgroup before people start trying to get one created.
>>-Brian V. Hughes

>Becasue the Prograph mailing list has been very active and becasue a number
>of people on this newsgroup are interested in a Prograph newsgroup.  Why do
>you care anyway?

    Size of a related mailing list has absolutely nothing to do with a
UseNet newsgroup, unless, for some reason, that list is gatewayed to the
group. I personally feel that it is great that a number of people in
this group are interested in Prograph, but the simple fact remains that
you can't just start a new newsgroup. And you will never get anywere,
officially, until you can demonstrate that there is sufficient traffic
to warrant a new group. As for why I care, I happen to be a registered
owner of Prograph, although I haven't done anythign with it yet, and I
also happen to have some experience in the newsgroup creation process
that I was trying to share.

--
-Brian V. Hughes
	     "If you could care less, then why don't you?"


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From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Subject: Re: Prograph
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:27:38 GMT
<1992Dec17.051145.8283@panix.com> <92352.132819IO92668@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
<1992Dec17.210242.23623@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> <BzFILt.I2t@cs.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: hades@Dartmouth.Edu
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Disclaimer: Personally, I really don't care who you think I speak for.
Moderator: Rec.Arts.Comics.Info


Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.oop.misc:170 comp.sys.mac.programmer:20601
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Distribution: world
From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 03:01:15 CDT
Subject: Re: Summary: I'm faint! I just saw the price for MPW!

nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle) wrote:
> and in order to protect them you may not decompile, reverse engineer, 
> disassemble, or otherwise reduce the Software to a human-perceivable form.

lsr@taligent.com (Larry Rosenstein) replied:
>I don't have any CDs around to see what the situation is today.

	The paper folder that comes tucked into the ETO-8 disk (the
latest-minus-one ETO shipped, but the latest one I've got here) has the same
warning about reverse engineering, being a trade secret, etc.  They also
state the "you may not [...] create derivative works based upon the Software
in whole or in part".  If writing an application based on MacAPP isn't a
derivitive work, I'd like to know what is.

-- 
Roy Smith <roy@nyu.edu>
Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202
NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."


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From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer
Subject: Re: Summary: I'm faint! I just saw the price for MPW!
Date: 22 Dec 1992 20:05:14 GMT
Organization: New York University, School of Medicine
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From: GRAFF <pier@reze-1.rz.rwth-aachen.de>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Subject: Re: TCL questions
Date: 6 Jan 1993 09:36:05 GMT
Organization: RWTH-Aachen
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From: John P. Speno, speno@clam.rutgers.edu
Date: 23 Dec 92 18:32:22 GMT
In article <SPENO.92Dec23133222@clam.rutgers.edu> John P. Speno,
speno@clam.rutgers.edu writes:
>
>1) How do I make an object dragable with a gray outline? CMouseTask
>looks promising because I'd like to be able to use Undo.
>2) Once an object is moved, how should this change be communicated to
>the graph which must be updated? I suppose a broadcastChange is in
>order. 
>3) I'd like to put the graph and the dragging area in one window.
>Should all the various pieces be separate panes?
>
>I'd appreciate all help and suggestions greatly. Since this project is
>what I'll be doing during winter break, I'll have plenty of questions
>for the list. If you want more detailed information about the project,
>please Email me directly, I'd love to discuss it. Thanks!
>

Hi!
I can only give you a SMALL hint:
Read the book 

     Macintosh C Programming Primer Volume II
     Dave Mark
     Addison-Wesley
     
There is a brief description of a program using TCL that handles 
dragging of Objects and things like that. Hope that helps

             Jochen
             
P.S.: English is not my native language, sorry!!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
From: toma@baritone (Thomas Arneberg  {66642 CF/DEV})
Subject: Re: Looking for a C++ Compiler for the MAC
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 5 Jan 93 12:48:45 CST

In article <76119@apple.apple.COM> opstad@Apple.COM (David Opstad) writes:
>In article <1ias2sINN345@tamsun.tamu.edu> bpb9204@tamsun.tamu.edu (Brent Burton) writes:
>>From page 60 of the Think C Object Oriented Programming Manual, I quote:
>>  The syntax that THINK C uses for objects is a cubset of C++ as described
>                                                 ^^^^^^
>
>So, if it's a cubset, does that mean it's only bearly an implementation of
>C++?
>
>Dave Opstad
>(no good typo goes unpun-ished...)

Hey, c'mon now guys...no need to get this discussion so polar-ized...

---------------------------------------------+------------------------------
;-) I'd rather be ____  Thomas R. Arneberg   | Internet: toma@cray.com
:-) singing in a |____| Senior IC Design Eng.| UUCP: ...!uunet!cray!toma
:-) Barbershop  _|   _| Cray Research, Inc.  | CLAIM TO FAME: Loni Anderson 
:-) Quartet!   (_)  (_) Chippewa Falls, Wisc.|   went to my high school 
---------------------------------------------+------------------------------
From: opstad@Apple.COM (David Opstad)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Subject: Re: Looking for a C++ Compiler for the MAC
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:45:28 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1ias2sINN345@tamsun.tamu.edu> bpb9204@tamsun.tamu.edu (Brent Burton) writes:
>From page 60 of the Think C Object Oriented Programming Manual, I quote:
>  The syntax that THINK C uses for objects is a cubset of C++ as described
                                                 ^^^^^^

So, if it's a cubset, does that mean it's only bearly an implementation of
C++?

Dave Opstad
(no good typo goes unpun-ished...)
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Subject: Re: Learning App Frameworks (was Re: THINK Class Library learning..)
Date: 7 Jan 93 06:29:42 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)

In article <1992Dec31.043751.2808621471@ultramac.uucp>, bcoleman@hayes.com
(Bill Coleman) wrote:
> Indeed. And, in the case of MacApp and the TCL, the developers of these
> frameworks have only shipped half of the product. They have shipped the parts,
> but when it comes to delivering the description -- what little they have
> shipped is woefully inadequate. 

My favourite frameworks manual this week is the Garnet 'how-to'
documentation,
that goes from the simple concepts to the more deep, following the new
style of pattern-finding explanations. If I would design MacApp documents
I would use this style of documentation (a refinement of the MacApp
cookbook
document).

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Distribution: world
From: lsr@taligent.com (Larry Rosenstein)
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:43:11 CDT
Subject: Re: Summary: I'm faint! I just saw the price for MPW!

In article <1992Dec22.070755.13175@netcom.com>, nagle@netcom.com (John
Nagle) wrote:
> 
> and in order to protect them you may not decompile, reverse engineer, 
> disassemble, or otherwise reduce the Software to a human-perceivable form.

I don't have any CDs around to see what the situation is today.  I do know
that MacApp is not on the Developer CD.  And the versions of the MacApp
license that I've seen doesn't place any of those restrictions.

Also, all the Tech Notes and DTS Sample Code I've seen has carried an
explict statement that you can use this and distribute it, provided you do
not sell it.

Larry Rosenstein
Taligent, Inc.

lsr@taligent.com


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From: lsr@taligent.com (Larry Rosenstein)
Subject: Re: Summary: I'm faint! I just saw the price for MPW!
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer
Organization: Taligent, Inc.
<1992Dec11.155851.14862@walter.cray.com>  
<1gb6n9INNpmk@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>   <1992Dec16.132756.20642@gssec.bt.co.uk>
<lsr-181292122440@lsr.taligent.com>   <1992Dec19.000239.11451@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
<keithley-181292171536@kip2-37.apple.com>
<keithley-191292132933@kip2-37.apple.com> <1992Dec20.200609.15692@netcom.com>
<lsr-211292101905@lsr.taligent.com> <1992Dec22.070755.13175@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:03:03 GMT
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Subject: Re: Learning App Frameworks (was Re: THINK Class Library learning..)
Date: 7 Jan 93 06:27:43 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)

In article <6613.2b459125@hayes.com>, bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
wrote:
> First, the C++ macros were part of the implementation, not part of the
> interface. Eiffel correctly places the pre- and post-conditions in the
> interface -- since they are just as much of the specficiation of the
> routines as anything else. I ended up having to move the implementation
> assertions as comments in the header -- it was a lot of work to keep it up
> to date and accurate.
 
Well, I don't question that a pre-processor that automatically inserts
the constructs is better than programmer responsibility concerning
assertions.
However you could also forget to specify the assertion flag in Eiffel,
causing similar problems. In other words it's not a panacea when a compiler
is automatically doing the job, there's still a responsibility of the
programmer to keep track of the state.

Correct me if I'm wrong (haven't looked into Eiffel for a long time,
got tired of waiting for the Mac port :-) ), but you still need to provide
meta-information about the assertion statements for Eiffel (like min max
values). In other words you can't avoid work anyway.

Anyway, my ASSERT macro package is less than a page, does it's job well,
and once written I could use it wherever I want, in whatever scope. And 
I don't have problems keeping track of use of the package, it's now second
nature for me to ripple in assert statements in the code.

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
From: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk (Sak Wathanasin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Subject: Booch notation diagrams
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:03:11 GMT
Reply-To: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk
Organization: Network Analysis Ltd
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1

Is there a tool on the Mac that can be used to draw these? I faxed Rational,
and although they had tools that run on Unix and on PCs, they don't have one
for the Mac. Would appreciate names and phone numbers (non-800 if possible).

Many thanks in advance.

Sak Wathanasin
Network Analysis Limited
178 Wainbody Ave South, Coventry CV3 6BX, UK

uucp:      ...!uknet!nan!sw  Phone: (+44) 203 419996
AppleLink: NAN.LTD           Internet: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Distribution: world
From: davek@netcom.com (David Kramer)
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:54:35 CDT
Subject: How can I learn TCL?



I have two questions.  One, where is the FAQ for this newsgroup (is there
one?).  Second, what would you recommend as a tutorial-instructional book
for using OOP, specifically TCL with THINK C 5.0 (or Pascal 4.0, if
necessary).  I've looked through the OOP manual that came with THINK C,
but it seems more of a reference than a learning experience.  I'm looking
for something like the Macintosh Programming Primers, by Dave Mark and
Christopher Reed.  Thanks in advance.

-David



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From: davek@netcom.com (David Kramer)
Subject: How can I learn TCL?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 20:43:43 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Distribution: world
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 05:08:06 CDT
Subject: Re: Summary: I'm faint! I just saw the price for MPW!

In article <1992Dec20.200609.15692@netcom.com>, nagle@netcom.com (John
Nagle) wrote:
>      It's also worth noting that if you use MacApp, your source code may
> be "contaminated" with Apple code, and you may have legal difficulties 
> porting it to non-Apple platforms.  Since a port to Windows may make
> good business sense, it's probably wise to get legal advice
> before using MacApp for any serious work.

As long as you don't port MacApp itself you should *NOT* have any
problems. Are you thinking about TList/TObject style of use? I've
stated N times that for cross-platform issues avoid anything non-GUI
related for your work, you will save a lot of hassles in the long term.


Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000


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From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Subject: Re: Summary: I'm faint! I just saw the price for MPW!
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 00:06:15 GMT
<1992Dec11.155851.14862@walter.cray.com>  
<1gb6n9INNpmk@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>  
<1992Dec16.132756.20642@gssec.bt.co.uk> <lsr-181292122440@lsr.taligent.com>  
<1992Dec19.000239.11451@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
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From: vollrath@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:47:46 CDT
Subject: TCL windows and dialogs

Hi,

This sort of question is beginning to look repetitious, sorry. Is there a 
FAQ for this newsgroup? How do I get it?
That wasn't the question. I am using Think Pascal / TCL. I want the main 
window to be a modeless dialog (or window with text fields), and two 
subsidiary windows (not usually visible) to handle text and graphics.
The program reads in x-y coords of spider webs, and calculates a few
hundred parameters, then outputs the results to FileForce files. The
program has to display some changeable information (like date) on screen,
and optionally display a picture of the web, and a text log file.
Now, how is this best structured. CDocument is not a subclass of CDLOG-
Director. Should I make itsWindow the log window, have a separate director
to deal with the graphic window, and a subclass of CDLOGDirector to handle
the dialog? Seems awkward, because the dialog has a couple of buttons to
skip the web, or get the next from the file. I have to keep passing data
back and fore to save to the file. 
Sorry this is so rambling. If people email, I'll summarise to the net.
Thanks in advance.
Alun ap Rhisiart
Animal Behaviour Research Group
Oxford University
(vollrath@vax.ox.ac.uk)


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From: vollrath@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Subject: TCL windows and dialogs
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:47:45 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Distribution: world
From: cent@u.washington.edu (Bob Cent)
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:10:43 CDT
Subject: MacApp: diff in & output files

In Think Pascal and MacApp2: I want to open an existing file, read it,
then create a new file which the user names and fill then it with
information.  Then close both files.

Using MacApp I know how to open, read, write, and close a file, but I 
have not found an example of how to query for both an input and an output
file name.  I can imagine how to do this procedurally, but how is it
recommended to do this in MacApp?  Thanks!

Bob Cent  (cent@u.washington.edu)
University of Washington, SJ-50
Seattle, WA  98195


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From: Bob Cent <cent@u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Subject: MacApp: diff in & output files
Date: 30 Dec 1992 23:23:38 GMT
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From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer
Subject: Re: Summary: I'm faint! I just saw the price for MPW!
Date: 23 Dec 92 00:39:58 GMT
<1992Dec11.155851.14862@walter.cray.com>  
<1gb6n9INNpmk@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>  
<1992Dec16.132756.20642@gssec.bt.co.uk> <lsr-181292122440@lsr.taligent.com>  
<1992Dec19.000239.1145
From: bpb9204@tamsun.tamu.edu (Brent Burton)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc
Subject: Re: Looking for a C++ Compiler for the MAC
Date: 4 Jan 1993 20:34:04 -0600
Organization: Texas A&M Univ., Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu

to5232@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
|In article <1993Jan4.221458.7320@tc.cornell.edu>, philip@vger.cheme.cornell.edu writes:
|> 
|> ThinkC has a very good C++ implementation, and you can get it just about
|> anywhere. BTW the current version is 5.0.3
|>  
|How compliant is it with the ATT C++ compiler?  It equivalent to ATT C++ 2.1 or
|higher? (Just asking for a point of reference.)

From page 60 of the Think C Object Oriented Programming Manual, I quote:
  The syntax that THINK C uses for objects is a cubset of C++ as described
  in [Stroustrup's C++ Ref Manual].  THINK C implements simple objects
  without multiple inheritance.  THINK C does not implement any non-object
  extensions from C++ such as operator or function overloading.

Throughout this chapter of the manual, the reader is told the times when
methods should or should not be declared virtual and how it compares to 
what C++ would assume or do.

Other differences between C++ and Think C's OO stuff include using
keywords in TC where C++ doesn't have them,  interpreting words in
context (public, private, etc) whereas C++ has these as keywords.
These smaller differences are just from the implementation.

For more information about what the differences are, I'd suggest getting
your hands on this manual and reading through this chapter.

-Brent
-- 
+-------------------------+
| Brent Burton    N5VMG   |    
| bpb9204@tamsun.tamu.edu |  
+-------------------------+