From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Luke's lightsaber
Date: 18 Nov 1992 21:55:38 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

flowerpt@coos.dartmouth.edu (Bill McGonigle) writes:

>In article <1e9k4qINNqsc@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:
>>flowerpt@coos.dartmouth.edu (Bill McGonigle) writes:
>>
>>Yes, but we're talking about acceleration here.  Notice that Yoda didn't move
>>the X-Wing particularly rapidly.  It didn't just hop right out of the bog.
>>Yes, Vader could accelerate those pieces of whatever, but it would take just
>>as long to slow them down...  Are you really trying to say that Yoda could
>>catch a cannonball (fired from a cannon) in midair?  If size matters not,
>>then why didn't Vader just cause Luke's X-Wing to crash in the first
>>Death Star Battle?  Why didn't the Emperor just personally cause the entire
>>Rebel fleet to crash into the energy field?  The Force apparently DOES have
>>some limitations.  And you didn't answer my question...  could the Force
>>be used to accelerate a bullet to muzzle velocity?  I think not.

>Lets look at this from a physics point of view.  The Jedi are using the Force
>to do things, but the things must still obey normal space laws.  Note, I'm
>figuring this out without knowing the outcome ahead of time.  How fast did
>Yoda move the X-Wing?  Three meters per second?  How much do you think it
>weighs, ten thousand kilograms?  I think these are reasonable figures. The
>momentum of the X-Wing would be thirty thousand kilogram meters per second.
>A ten gram bullet traveling at half a kilometer per second would have a 
>momentum of five kilogram meters per second.  A hundred kilogram cannonball
>traveling at one hundred meters per second would have a momentum of
>one thousand mKg/s.  So, if Yoda can stop the X-wing he moved, he should be
>able to stop a bullet easily and a cannonball without much trouble.  Because
>stopping something that is moving is just a matter of changing its 
>momentum to zero.   I think.

No, I still disagree.  For example, the wind can propel a clipper ship, but
this does not mean that the same wind can propel a bullet at muzzle
velocity.  Do you see the difference?  The force can not cause the desired
local intensity, but it can apply a small force on a large scale.  Again,
while the wind can move a ship, it can't stop a cannonball-type projectile.

>Yoda knows that size matters not, but I don't think that Vader knows that.  It
>seems like he's a pretty mediocre Jedi.  Left his training early, and filled
>in the blanks with Dark Side tricks.  And the emperor didn't need to do anything
>to make the rebels get destroyed.  He figured that there was no way they
>could get the shield down, and the DS was going to pick off the ships one by
>one.  

It always seemed to me that the Emperor's Force abilities were an afterthought,
anyway.

>>Okay, how about if you held his head in the swamp?  I bet he'd lose
>>concentration THEN!

>Ok, if you somehow got Yoda to drown, then yes, he would loose his 
>concentration.  And you'd be better than a Jedi Master.  Better not
>ask him who the 'Master' is when you pull his head up, though. Yoda
>has reached the final level.  (only 1 in 100 will get this reference)

I never said anything about drowning.  And hey, making reference to OTHER
movies now?  Come one... heh heh

>>But the point is that there weren't any intricate actions.  You couldn't pinch
>>my nose closed with the Force...

>How about your throat?  "I find your lack of faith disturbing."

Well, someone could easily manipulate my mind to cause me to gag, but since
I have little control over my nose...

>>I still don't think that a Jedi could stop a cannonball.

>>However, it is clear from the movies that Jedis AREN'T invincible.  Remeber
>>that the Jedi were all but exterminated before Star Wars too place.

>True, but it took another Jedi to help destroy them.

Oh?  Who was that?

keith

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars