HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Change the game?
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:54:26 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Distribution: sqnt
Organization: Hi, I'm Matt, and I'm...a Boston Red Sox fan

In article <1993Jan26.010625.3005@sequent.com>, john@sequent.com (John
Vander Borght) wrote:

a lot of stuff I agree with...

but it seems like of all the proposed changes, the MLB owners are *least*
likely to approve realignment of divisions. Why? Got me. Comfort. Phillies'
owner Bill Giles, who's on this MLB committee to explore all these options,
was recently quoted in the Phila Inquirer as saying wildcard playoffs were
virtually a certainty because all their "polls" indicate the fans want
"their team in the playoffs more" [building a quality team for a change
didn't seem to occur to Bill, who makes as much profit on baseball as
anyone.] Changing around "traditional" divisions? Not a word. But I can't
see how MLB will lose on this one...local interest will be piqued, some
travel costs eliminated, and the "traditional" 154 game schedule 22 * 7 vs.
opponents will not only restore fans' sense of rivalry with other teams but
will re-spark those entertaining debates about which league is better -
times 4.

- matt

> When expansion takes gets both leagues to 16 teams, split it into 4 8-team
> leagues along regional lines.
> 
> For example:
> 
> Pacific Coast League:
> San Diego
> California
> Los Angeles
> San Francisco
> Oakland
> Seattle
> Denver
> Phoenix (exp)
> 
> Southern League:
> Houston
> Texas
> Miami
> Atlanta
> Kansas City
> St. Louis
> Cincinnati (because that is where Marge belongs)
> Tampa (exp)
> 
> International League:
> Montreal
> Toronto
> Detroit
> Chicago White Sox
> Chicago Cubs
> Milwaukee
> Minnesota
> Buffalo (exp)
> 
> Eastern League:
> New York Mets
> New York Yankees
> Boston
> Baltimore
> Philadelphia
> Pittsburgh
> Cleveland
> Washington (exp)
> 
> Go back to a 22 game vs each team, 154 game season, one round of playoffs
> followed by the World Series.
> 

---------------------------------------------------------
This space left intentionally blank until spring training.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:21:35 GMT

In article <GRABINER.93Jan21141053@germain.harvard.edu> grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:
>
>I don't believe this is true, though.  The value of a player to your
>team does not depend on standard deviations; it depends on the number of
>games he helps your team win and lose.  If you trade a shortstop who
>slugs 50 points better than average and an average first baseman for an
>average shortstop and a first baseman who slugs 50 points better than
>average, your team will still score the same number of runs.  Since you
>break even on the trade, you must have traded players of the same value.

After some thought, I have to disagree.  The key isn't value-above-
average.  The key is value-above-replacement-level.  Which is
significantly below average.  Therefore 50 points above average is
more valuable at a position with a higher variance in talent.

-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave 'Almost Cursed the Jays' Kirsch)
Subject: Re: 1993 MLB WS odds
Organization: Li'l Carlos and the Hormones
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:13:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.132431.24404@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> marwood@csri.toronto.edu (Simon 'nice bat, Jose, need' Marwood?) writes:
>
>The following odds chart appeared today in the Toronto Star, and represents
>the odds listed by the Flamingo Hotel sports book in Laughlin, Nev. The
>odds represent the odds to win the 1993 WS:
>
>Now a few of these are clearly ridiculous (ie LA!!), but fun nonetheless.

  What's really laughable is how Vegas/Tahoe/etc are making out like bandits.

  The only team I was willing to make a small wager on last year was
Montreal, because of the fact that nobody expected them to do well and they 
were likely to have long odds. My roommate bet $20 on the Expos for me in Tahoe
and only got 50:1 odds, which surprised me. What further surprised me was that 
the Expos were still almost the longest odds of the bunch. If you add all the
probabilities together, you'll find that you're likely to get less than half
your money back if you spread your bets around (unless a *real* longshot
wins). The oddsmakers are more than doubling their money, so they're easily
covered even if a longshot *does* win. 

  In other words, if you're interested in making a bet on this year's WS
winner, I've got a hot tip and some free advice: DON'T. I don't see any
Montreals lurking out there at 50:1 or so this year. And as much as it's fun 
to gamble on occasion, I really prefer to GAMBLE rather than give my money
away. Believing the Casinos/Oddsmakers are fair and prudent about this is
like believing over half the teams in baseball lost money last year. See
Selig, Bud as well as Owners, MLB and "Duh! Shyeaah!". 

  Lundy, 

-- 
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch             kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu 
Toronto Blue Jays - 1992 World Champions!      New .. quotes out of context!
"I really like his stroke."    -  Gary Huckabay on a snowed-in Roger Maynard 
"I .. want to be FORCED to have members of the same sex .. on us"  Nelson Lu 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Expos/Brewers Trade
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:27:19 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


The Expos recently traded some minor leaguers to Milwaukee for 
Charlie Montoyo and Oreste Marrero.  Anyone have info or
stats on them?  I presume that they are minor leaguers as well.

                                                   Thanks,
                                                           P. Tierney
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: srubio@garnet.berkeley.edu (Steven Rubio)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: Re: Please help me understand Patton $'s
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:48:47 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

I *love* Patton$, for a very simple reason: he prints his exact formulas
every year.  All I have to do is type them into my spreadsheet.  I enjoy
the theoretical discussions of why saves should be this much or why homers
should be that much.  But when the talk is over, I want to try out the
formulas for myself.  Patton allows me to do that, by printing the darn
things.

On the other hand, Patton's decision to focus on 1993 predictions in this
year's book is ironic, to say the least.  With each season, Patton's books
have gotten more mean-spirited as he attacks the "touts" who dare to make
specific projections about the coming season.  Patton was the King of
Fantasy Writing when he explained to us why and how valuation systems were
important, but as he himself now admits, everyone has a system these days
and they all reach essentially the same conclusions.  Which means players
looking for an edge have to move beyond calculating to the final penny
what Joe Carter was worth last year, and have to start calculating what
Joe Carter is going to do *this* year.  In last year's book, Patton (who
is a fine writer, not common in the field) spent inordinate amounts of
space attacking James, Benson et al for their folly in trying to predict
future performance.

And yet, come 1993, there is Alex Patton, renaming his book to "Patton's
Predictions" and joining the fray.  Hey, I'm glad he's doing it; I love
his work.  I just think it's funny that he's gonna make predictions like
everyone else this year.

Steven
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: emk7r@Virginia.EDU ("")
Subject: Cheap steals wanted!
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:28:36 GMT

Okay, you rotisserie nuts, you are the "secret weapon" I'm
using this year to hopefully win my rotisserie league.  Our
league is six-teams, based on TSN's pricing at a $350 cap and
has four offensive (HR, SB, RBI, BA) and four pitching (ERA,
WHIP/RATIO, WINS AND SAVES).  Pretty simple.  Anyway, I'm
looking for some obscure talent or underrated talent which I
can stick on my team.  Can anyone out there give any good
recommendations, not taking into account my other players?  I'm
especially looking for a decent reliever for a good price and
Terry Leach just might not cut it this year.


Edward Kuo 
emk7r@virginia.edu
From: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: Re: Any news about these players?
Date: 27 Jan 1993 18:50:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian) says:

>
>>Julio Franco?
>Will only qualify at DH, unless you have weird rules.  .440 slug DHs are not
>a rare commodity.
>
>

  They are if they hit .310 and have an obp of .390!  

SfH

-- 
Steven F. Hubbard                ** "If people don't want to come to the 
Case Western Reserve University  **     ballpark, how are you gonna stop them? 
Department of Physics            **  
Cleveland, OH 44106              **                         -- Yogi
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: sullis@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Sean C. Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Address for Patton this year?
Organization: Rotisserie Polytechnic Institute (Troy, NY, USA)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:44:17 GMT

In article <wall-220193175442@elvis.swarthmore.edu> wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall) writes:
>I'm inferring Alex Patton still doesn't have a regular publisher this year
>since he don't show up in Forthcoming books...
>
>does anybody have the address to direct order his book? Sean, is this in
>the FAQ?

  Well, I just looked in _The Sporting News 1993 Fantasy Baseball
Owners Manual_.
  On page 150 there is an ad for Mr. Alex Patton.

  To order _Patton's 1993 Player Predictions for Rotisserie Baseball_
(book) and _Patton $ on Disk_ (software),

  call 1-212-627-5443
  or write to:
    Patton Ink
    43 W 13th Street, Room 8R
    NY, NY 10011

  I will add this info to the r.s.b.f FAQ.
-- 
# Sean C. Sullivan (sullis@rpi.edu) | R.P.I. | DISCLAIMER:  Not!   #
# (AFS home directory:  /afs/rpi.edu/home/95/sullis)               #
# "Holy mother of God, what is Lou Gorman smoking?" == Dave Kirsch #
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: edo@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Edward Ouellette)
Subject: Re: Keep catchers? (Was Re: Questions about the Flying Australian)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:16:20 GMT

In article <1k6lmnINN7m5@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>In article <C1ItvI.2Jq@cs.dal.ca> niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes:
>>
>>  While I agree on everything else salty has said, I can't see anyone catching
>>150 games next year. He'd have to latch onto some DH AB's to do so, because
>>I think Surhoff and McIntosh and others will get games behind the plate.
>
>   Yup, Gord's right. I expect Nilsson will probably start around 150 games,
>   but probably only about 120 will be as the catcher. Surhoff's defense behind
>   the plate improved considerably last year and the Brewers would like to see
>   him still catch a few games. I can't see McIntosh starting many games behind
>   the plate, although if I remember correctly he caught when Eldred started
>   at the end of last year. 
>
>>  If Surhoff qualifies at C for your ROTO team, he may be a good pick, because
>>he'll get more PT at 3B than most catchers would get and thus his raw totals
>>should be higher. He's not much of a hitter for a 3Bman though....
>>
>   Surhoff should be an interesting player this year. The Brewers expect his
>   offense to improve considerably without the extra weight of having to 
>   catch and call a ballgame on his mind. Apparently he's very hard on himself
>   when he's slumping and the easier position (mentally) will help his hitting.
>   I'm not sold on that, but we'll see. He looked great his rookie year and
>   simply hasn't done squat since. The organization likes Surhoff a lot though,
>   so he will play often.
>
>   --salty
>
>

Ok... i play in a standard 10 team roto league (w/ $260 salaries) AL only... I
have Ron Karkovice at $3 and am going to keep him. I also have Surhoff at $11
and Nilsson at $10. Is Surhoff worth keeping? How about Nilsson? I could keep
'em both and put one at DH and trade one after our draft in the spring. Right
now I am clueless. Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Ed O.
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Tuesday, 26 Jan 1993 15:11:55 EST
From: <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: APBA Computer League Forming

   We're looking for 2 managers (although we might take 4, to make it a 12 team
league) for an APBA Computer Baseball league. This league will feature players
from both leagues. The emphasis is on fun and cameraderie, not winning,
although competitiveness is encouraged. FTF and MicroManager may be allowed.
This will not be a true "paperless" league, although downloading stuff to my
computer is encouraged rather than using the mail. If interested, please leave
me e-mail with your real name and phone number. I'll call you soon.
                                           Allen
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: srubio@garnet.berkeley.edu (Steven Rubio)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: Re: Gollenbock, Benson books out
Date: 24 Jan 1993 06:56:51 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

I love the Stats, Inc stuff, but I think Benson has the best line on
AB/IP, because he works his butt off right up to Opening Day (and beyond)
adjusting the AB and IP totals.  Bill James notes every year re: the Stats
player projections that "if we get the AB right, we get the prediction
right."  Which is why I prepare for my auction each season by pro-rating
the Stats projections for Benson's playing-time projections.  Benson is
valuable for a lot of reasons; reading his stuff, esp. his newsletter, is
like having someone archive every piece of info that crosses
rec.sport.baseball and r.s.b.fantasy and analyze it to see what makes
sense.  We all know a lot about our favorite teams; Benson uses his
contacts across the nation to give us a sense of what intelligent people
know about *their* favorite teams, and processes it in a easy-to-digest
manner.

Don't listen to me, though ... I did a piece on the Giants' bullpen for
his book last year and totally missed on Rod Beck. :-)  (This year I'm
pushing Scott Brosius as Bay Area sleeper.)

Steven
From: warejd@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: About the new pro-teams
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:53:58 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

What are people's opinions about the new Colorado and Florida teams?
Do they have any players that would be worth picking up if your rules permit
it?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: jfk@ais.org (Jim Knight)
Subject: Openings in the MRBL
Summary: Teams needed.
Organization: UMCC
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:20:54 GMT

The M-net Rotisserie Baseball League will be beginning it's fourth season
in 1993.  Currently we have 2 openings, and may have a third.  All 
transactions take place on M-Net, a public access unix and conferencing
system.  The only requirement for obtaining a team is that you must be
able to be in Ann Arbor, MI for draft day, which will be April 3rd, 1993.

If you are interested in one of the openings, please email me at one of
the addresses below.

Jim Knight
MRBL Commish.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: ashe@royalt.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Trade: Dump Rickey
Reply-To: ashe@royalt.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:07:03 GMT


I have Rickey Henderson at $34.  I can trade him for Cordero $8, Colbrunn $5,
and Conine $5.  Should I do it?

-Walt

P.S. Where did Dave Martinez go?
From: Timothy.J.Young@dartmouth.edu (Timothy J. Young)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: Re: Any news about these players?
Date: 29 Jan 93 00:32:45 GMT
 <1993Jan27.152937.11911@utagraph.uta.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1993Jan27.152937.11911@utagraph.uta.edu>
cs1442au@utagraph.uta.edu (cs1442au) writes:

> Take from a Rangers fan. Franco will play DH and Canseco is vowing to go
> for 40-40 again. He says that he has never felt better.Look out
> \
The Rangers aren't going anywhere. They still don't have enough
pitching. Ryan could go any time. Brown may have trouble duplicating
last year's success. There's no guarantee that Liebrandt will be worth
anything, much less duplicate his performances in Atlanta (moving to a
tougher league). Guzman is gone. They'll score runs, but they'll give
up just as many. 

-Tim Young, Dartmouth College, Class of '96
The opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of Dartmouth
College, its students, or anyone else.
"Not everyone can carry the weight of the world..."- R.E.M.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: sullis@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Sean C. Sullivan)
Subject: Re: FAQ wanted
Organization: Rotisserie Polytechnic Institute (Troy, NY, USA)
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:58:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.135241.3889@zip.eecs.umich.edu> hajel@quip.eecs.umich.edu (John Hajel) writes:
>
>Is there a FAQ for this group?  I'm particularly interested
>in fantasy league software.

Actually, I am working on putting together a FAQ for this group.

It is 95% done.   The "official" release won't be until February,
at least.
-- 
# Sean C. Sullivan (sullis@rpi.edu) | R.P.I. | DISCLAIMER:  Not!   #
# (AFS home directory:  /afs/rpi.edu/home/95/sullis)               #
# "Holy mother of God, what is Lou Gorman smoking?" == Dave Kirsch #
From: warejd@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: ROOKIES:QUESTION
Date: 25 Jan 93 02:21:31 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

Does anybody know any promising rookies they are thinking about putting on
their roster that will produce but aren't so obvious that they will be picked
in the first round??
Feedback needed because this is only my second season of fantasy baseball and
Thanx
JD

any help would be appreciated.

From: lynch@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Howard Lynch)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:45:57 GMT
Subject: 1992 Patton formula's?
Organization: OCD IC MFG
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy

What are the 1992 Patton $ formula's?

What are some of the reasons given for changes from 1991?

Thanks for any feedback!

Lynch "MOB"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow)
Subject: Re: Questions for Exp. APBA (comp.) players - please!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:50:09 GMT

In article <1k7qvuINN8o8@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> rdunkle@engin.umich.edu (R. M. Dunkle) writes:
>
>	In response to comments about Draft 2.0 and the five-lineup
>solution in pitching rotations:
>	Yeah, there's some stuff there, but:
>
>	Why can't I get statmaster reports using even the minimal real stats
>that are already there? It's not as if it'd be a programming challenge! I'd 
>like to know how the teams stack up against each other in batting and pitching,
>who led the league in homers, etc. without buying a book or counting it all
>up myself. Not critical, but it'd be so *easy*. Painfully easy.

It's already there bud. In Draft 2.0. That's why there's a manual. 

You have two options. Getting a playerlist and sorting on that player list.

--Les
From: kbrennan@aludra.usc.edu (Kirk Brennan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: Any news about these players?
Date: 24 Jan 1993 18:37:37 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
Keywords: ward, montgomery, joyner, canseco, guzmanju, guillen, franco

I'm about to ink the following trade; I'd appreciate any comments.  
I'm starving for saves, by the way, I have a decent staff of starters.  
Standard, by-the-book RLB rules.

I give up:

   Wally Joyner  (16)
   Juan Guzman   (10)

I get

   Jose Canseco  (39) ouch
   Duane Ward    (5)
     -or-
   J. Montgomery (16)


I'm leaning towards Montgomery, 'cause he's the proven stopper.  Ward 
seems to be up for getting a fair number of saves, but his arm hasn't
proven me the longevity.

Two years ago I had Bryan Harvey and Mike Schooler; I came in second in saves.
This year I came in 2nd to last.  Let's hear it for expansion/free agency.

-=-=-=-

Any word on the health of these two cripples?

Ozzie Guillen?
Julio Franco?

Got burned on Ozzie last year, got Julio as a throw-in last October.  
Will either of these bums be worth anything?

Thanks for any wisdom

Kirk out
USC film school
From: srubio@garnet.berkeley.edu (Steven Rubio)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: Re: Gollenbock, Benson books out
Date: 22 Jan 1993 00:11:27 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

More on Benson ...

John does not write the individual player comments in the Sporting News
Fantasy Baseball Owners Manual.  He writes the introductory material at
the beginning of the magazine, and the general introductions to each
position.  The dollar values are useful only if you remember when they
were concocted; anyone who buys this magazine should definite tear out the
card and send in for the free update, which will feature Benson values for
late March.  Better yet, buy all of Benson's books and subscribe to his
newsletter.  (OK, enough advertising!) :-)

For what it's worth, I have two firsts and one second in the three years
since I have used this system for valuations: I take the Stats Inc.
projections, pro-rate them for Benson's AB/IP projections, and calculate
values.  Benson's software makes this pretty easy.  (I feel like his press
agent.)  If you get nothing else out of Benson, watch his AB/IP
projections; he does a great job of collating information from fans across
the country when he figgers that stuff out.

Steven who actually tries not to do a damn thing until the Bill James
Baseball Book comes out