HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Helge Hauglin <helgeha@ifi.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Indian (sort of) recipe: Pongali
        Nov 92 23:15:39 GMT
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:52:02 GMT
Originator: helgeha@maud.ifi.uio.no

In article <1992Nov17.231539.4978@u.washington.edu> sannuti@math.washington.edu (Arun Meda Sannuti) writes:

> 
> 	I hope people will like this recipes.  It's something made by
> my mom that I like a lot, but I'm fairly sure it's non-standard.
> (That is, most Indians have probably never heard of it, and if they
> have, then they would probably think that this version tastes wrong.)
> Anyway, I like it, and my mom has given me this recipe.  When I cook
> it off this recipe, the Pongali doesn't taste as good, but maybe I
> just miss my mom.

What does "pongali" mean?

> COOKING PONGALI
....

> 6.  some curry leaves (kari vepaku)

Do you mean "bay leaves", the green leaves frequently used in Indian
cooking? 

> 11. 1 cup of Moong dhal (Pesara Pappu)

Is that mung beans or mung lentils?  


The recipe sounds good!  I'll try it soon.



                          
    Helge                  - Garlic cures everything, except loneliness
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: A beginner's guide to vegetarianism
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 13:11:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.083435.23440@walter.cray.com> tinamou@ferris.cray.com (Doug Nicholson) writes:

>In article <1992Nov13.194552.10709@pixel.kodak.com> young@serum.kodak.com writes:
>>
>>In <1992Nov13.092503.5625@abo.fi>, Abhaymichael Bulsaritraub writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>             ***********************************************
>>>                   A Beginner's Guide to Vegetarianism
>>>             ***********************************************
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>>   Health reasons aside, there are ethical reasons why you should
>>>consider going meatless.
>>>
>>>   These reasons may include concern about the environment: every
>>>quarter pound  of hamburger you  eat destroys  55 square  feet of rain
>>>forest because many cattle eaten in the U.S. have been fattened up  in
>>>former  rain forests converted to grazing  ground.   Altogether,  more
>>>than 50% of current tropical rain forest destruction has been directly
>>>linked  to   raising  livestock.
>>
>>	"...some experts believe that the worst of the plunder
>>	is over and that the American taste for beef has little impact
>>	today on what happens in the tropical rain forests.  Less than one
>>	percent of the beef Americans eat is imported from Central and
>>	South America, according to the United States Department of
>>	Agriculture, and even that small amount is steadily declining." [1]
>>
>> [1] TUFTS UNIVERSITY DIET AND NUTRITION LETTER, Vol. 10, No. 4, June 1992.
>
>Does your citation make any reference to trends in worldwide meat
>consumption?  If meat consumption is rising worldwide then the worst
>may not be over.

	No.  The article in question specifically refers to the U. S., as
	did Bulsaritraub's original article.  Perhaps you could supply us
	with the worldwide numbers?


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,sci.med.nutrition
From: altar@fraser.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: So-Called Vitamin D (olddate) [rebuttal from August]
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:01:29 GMT

molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar) writes:

>In article <1992Nov23.233410.12142@pixel.kodak.com> young@serum.kodak.com writes:
># In article <altar.722490914@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
># >I'm sorry that other countries may well spell things differently
># >than yourself, but the fact remains that the Canadian and British
># >spelling is ATHEROSCLEROSIS.
># 
># 	Oh, good GRIEF!!!!  In the interest of accuracy let me expound on
># 	ARTERIOSCLEROSIS vs. ATHEROSCLEROSIS.


>Come on folks, we're all lay people.  Don't take this stuff so seriously.
>The rest of us sure don't.

Thanks Tom for putting in it perspective.  I do, however, stand humbly 
corrected.

 Sorry George.  Do try to understand my confusion that atherosclerosis
or "nodular arteriosclerosis" (as the British call it) is superimposed
upon generalized arteriosclerosis and indeed is the most common
type of arteriosclerosis.  Hence my lazy conflation of the two.
We all make mistakes.  ;-(

                                           ted



Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: llarsen%peruvian.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Loren Larsen)
Subject: Re: PCRM and milk (revisited)
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:15:55 MST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <1992Nov20.155324.27337@pixel.kodak.com> young@serum.kodak.com writes:
>     WOULD CHILDREN BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT MILK?
>
>	The [PCRM] says children can obtain all the calcium they need by
>	eating calcium-containing vegetables such as kale and broccoli.
>	But a child would have to eat four to six cups of such vegetables
>	daily to take in teh amount of calcium available in just two cups
>	of milk.  And even if a youngster could be encouraged to eat such
>	a large amount of leafy vegetables (good luck to any parent who
>	plans on trying it), he still wouldn't be obtaining significant
>	amounts of other essential nutrients present in milk, like riboflavin,
>	vitamin D, and phosphorus.

Now if drinking milk is SO important for getting calcium, why do you suppose it
is that studies of the tensile strength of vegans vs. meat eaters has shown that
vegans have significantly higher bone tensile strength?  Why do you suppose it
is that people in counties that don't meat (like China where it's too expensive
for the peasants) have much lower incidences of heart disease and osteoporosis?
Could it be that the studies that show that the high protein content of milk
actually leaches calcium from the bones?  

When I read the newspaper article here about Dr. Spock and the PCRM, a spokesman
from the dairy industry was outraged that THESE PEOPLE would say this JUST to
try to get people to adopt their vegetarian lifestyle.  And the statement from
such an objective and unbiased sort.  Before you buy all this crap about how 
good milk is for you, look at who educated the people saying this.  Think about
it.  Now look at the studies done by people not funded by the Dairy Councils.
Notice the differences and WAKE UP!

Loren Larsen



Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@aton.abo.fi
Subject: Miscellaneous (especially for newcomers)
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 05:17:37 GMT

It has been stated time and again that :

Vegetarian food is healthier. Vegan food is nutritionally sufficient.
Vegetarian food is environmentally much less destructive.
It is ethical to eat only vegan food. It is not ethical to eat animals.

For more details, keep reading this newsgroup.
Some of us will continue to post informative articles on these topics.

If you are a busy person, avoid reading followups and read only new
postings. You will get plenty of information from new postings. Followups
mainly have arguments.

With regards,

A. Bulsari


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: julie.starr@oit.gatech.edu (Julie Marion Starr)
Subject: Re: Bye
Organization: Georgia Tech
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:04:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.083754.1@vax.sonoma.edu>, abel@vax.sonoma.edu writes:
> 
> I'm leaving.  I've left before, and I probably will be back.  I'm 
> leaving for the same reason, that the flame wars have abandoned the 
> facts and are now turning to personal attacks (changing your name so 
> that someone *has* to read your meaningless attack even though you've 
> been put in a kill file?  come on!).  I am seeking to become more of 
> a vegetarian, but I don't find this group helpful right now.  Thanks 
> to the majority of you who have been helpful and reasonable.
> 
    Well, this is my first post to r.f.v.  I've been reading it
since last March, and went ovo-lacto soon thereafter.  I'm sad to see people
going away from the group (again!).  I love the diversity of this group.
        I, too, am taken aback at the flame wars, but instead of kill
files, if read an article that is offensive, I just ignore it. I don't have
the time, I guess, to get involved with some of the more assine threads. 
	I suppose that Abhay will post some silly reply, but I really do not care.


Julie M. Starr

 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@aton.abo.fi
Subject: Learn to make a kill file
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:16:16 GMT

Learn to make a kill file. If you are using rn on Unix,
pressing CAPS k will kill a subject. No more followups on
that subject will be shown after that.

If you want to avoid reading a person's postings, e.g. mine,
edit the kill file by typing Ctrl-k and then entering a line
/Abhay/h:j or /abulsari@aton.abo.fi/h:j

Kill files make life easier for everyone.

With regards,

Abhay

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: amcmicha@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Andrew McMichael)
Subject: Re: Trivia : How much of rain forest is destroyed by one hamburger ?
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:04:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.092217.5506@abo.fi> abulsari@aton.abo.fi (A. Bulsari) writes:
>
>How much of rain forest is destroyed by one hamburger ?
>
>
>Answer : About 55 sq ft for a quarter pound one.
>
>
>A. Bulsari


But I hear that they have developed a hamburger resistant tree that 
no longer succumbs to those natsy ground beasties that grind down
anything in their paths.  


besides, didn't you post a 'Traub-ism' [to borrow a phrase]  a bit
back saying that the U.S. now buys less than 1% of it's cow flesh
from rainforest areas?  I realize that for every 'fact' on this
group there are at least 5 other counter-facts waiting to pound 
them into the sand,  but this one should be easy to dispute or
confirm.   [  hahaha  get it?  confirm a fact on r.f.v.!  Oh man,
sometimes I just slay myself.]



-- 
Andrew McMichael
George Mason University
Fairfax, Va
amcmicha@gmuvax2.gmu.edu
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegans Statistic 
Date: 20 Nov 92 10:15:29 -0500
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

According to the October issue of the Vegetarian Times magazine,
a recent survey (done by this magazine) found that 7% of the
US population define themselves as "vegetarian" to some degree
(translating into almot 18 million self-defined vegetarians).
4% of the vegetarians defined themselves as vegans (translating
into about 700,000 people in the United States, or about one
out of 300 hundred people in the generlopulation -- I think).

However, though the number of STRICT vegans are still pretty
small, keep in mind that 30% of all vegetarians NEVER consume egg,
including egg whites (according to the same survey), while
10% never consume dairy products (translating into about
2% of the general populationf those who avoid eggs, 1/3 of
that figure for those who avoid dairy products).  Further keep
in mind that just because someone is an "ovo-lacto vegetarian",
that doesn't mean s/he actually WANTS egg or dairy in every
meal, every day, or even every week.  If the point of your
request is to help youdetrmine whether it would make
good business sense to develop a line of products targeted at
vegans, rest assured that ^ou can safely expect a good carryover
market among vegetarians generally (as well as omnivores who
want to cut back on fat and cholestrol)

--Andrea

In article <1eh6uqINNo6p@agate.berkeley.edu>, rhart@haas.berkeley.edu (Richard Hart) writes:
> 
> Does anyone know offhand how many vegans (folks who eat no
> animal products) there are in the US? A percentage would be
> fine. This is for a business plan for a health food company.
> 
> (Now I've made one of those posts that usually annoy me
> so much and cause me to yell at the screen, "Get your
> butt to the library!" Sorry, no time! I'm not on campus and
> libraries around here are pretty much always closed.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,sci.med.nutrition
From: tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman)
Subject: Re: L-Carnitine and Chromium Picolinate
Originator: tsf@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:56:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.200359.13318@imagen.com> avi@seal.imagen.com writes:

   Can anybody name natural food sources where L-Carnitine and/or
   Chromium Picolinate occur ?

Chromium picolinate was originally conceived as a means to get
chromium to be absorbed by the body.  I don't know that it has ever
been observed naturally.  There are natural foods such as brewer's
yeast that contain chromium that is absorbed well by the body, but
it's not chromium picolinate.

Reference:
@article	( MCCARTY91,
key	=	"McCarty91" ,
author	=	"Mark F. McCarty" ,
title	=	"The Case for Supplemental Chromium and a Survey of
Clinical Studies with Chromium Picolinate" ,
journal	=	"Journal of Applied Nutrition" ,
volume	=	"43" ,
number	=	"1" ,
year	=	"1991" ,
pages	=	"58-66" ,
keywords=	"insulin, chromium, diabetes, sugar tolerance" ,
annote	=	"Author was supported by Nutrition
21 and Nutriguard Resarch, which probably sells chromium picolinate." ,
bibdate	=	"Wed Nov 11 16:44:58 1992" ,
)
--
Tim Freeman <tsf@cs.cmu.edu>    CompuServe ID 71045,2267 checked occasionally.
When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun.
Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all.
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:10624 sci.med.nutrition:1370
From: avi@seal.imagen.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,sci.med.nutrition
Subject: L-Carnitine and Chromium Picolinate
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:03:59 GMT
Reply-To: avi@seal.imagen.com
Organization: none


Hi Folks,

I'm not sure if this is the right group to ask it, but ...

Can anybody name natural food sources where L-Carnitine and/or
Chromium Picolinate occur ?

Does anybody know of any clinical studies verifying the effects of
L-Carnitine and Chromium Picolinate as fat burners ? 

Do these two (or any one of them) work only when complemented with 
aerobic exercises or also with anaerobic (like weight-lifting) or no exercise 
at all ?

Any personal accounts of success or failure ?

Thanks,
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Subject: Re: Pongali.... really curry leaves
Organization: NRL
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:45:29 GMT


Talk about coincidences... I just posted a query to rec.gardens about care
and feeding of curry-leaf plants! I bought one last spring from Well Sweep
Herb Farm in NJ (mail order), and it's still alive although spindly.  I
know it's possible to grow indoors in this area (Maryland) because a local
veg. restaurant (Siddhartha) has a big one growing in the window. In
summer I kept it outdoors and it seemed very happy. 

If you'd like the address of the mail-order source, ask me via email or
read rec.gardens in the next few days (I'll post the address there once I
get it from home, or maybe I'll cross-post here too if I remember). 

In this area, the Indian groceries usually carry them fresh (as another
poster noted), but the big hurricane in FL ruined this year's crop so
it's gotten really hard to find them. They freeze well, by the way,
so you can buy a bunch and not have to use them all at once (definitely
preferable to the dry kind, which have NO discernible flavor). 

Thanks so much for posting the pongal recipe, Arun, it brought back
very fond memories of my introduction to that wonderful dish by a
friend in a restaurant in Madurai...

Namaskaram!

Judy Karpen
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: artemis@netcom.com (Michelle Dick)
Subject: Re: Indian (sort of) recipe: Pongali
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:59:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.001612.10540@u.washington.edu> twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>
>We have a box of curry leaves in our cupboard.  (Neither of us knows 
>where they came from, or what to do with them, but we keep moving the 
>box around with us.)  As I recall, the label reads simply "Curry Leaves."

You could mail them to me.  :-).  My local asian store doesn't carry
curry leaves.  They have a taste of several spices (sort of like an
"Indian allspice").

--
Michelle Dick
artemis@netcom.com
From: jchapman@deeptht.armory.com (Jeffrey Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Yam Recipes?
Keywords: yams
Date: 16 Nov 92 07:20:40 GMT
Followup-To: jchapman@deeptht.armory.com
Distribution: us
Organization: The Armory


Does anyone have any yam recipes? They are cheap and nutritious,
but not commonly prepared, as far as I know. Any suggestions?
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: desmedt@ruls40.LeidenUniv.nl (Koenraad de Smedt)
Subject: Re: Environmental reasons, Part 3
Reply-To: desmedt@ruls40.LeidenUniv.nl (Koenraad de Smedt)
Organization: Leiden University, Netherlands
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 14:52:24 GMT

According to Abhay Bulsari, agriculture is much cheaper than meat and dairy
production.  Then how come soybean-based substitutes such as soybean milk,
soybean pudding, etc. etc. are outrageously priced??  Anyone has an
explanation?

Koenraad de Smedt  (Leiden University)
From: deatz@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Gregory H Deatz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: The hidden cost of meat ( The myth of scarcity)
Date: 21 Nov 92 17:50:45 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

oak@mwilliams.eche.ualberta.ca (Nilesh Oak) writes:
....
>	Facts such as these have led food experts to point out that the world 
>hunger problem is largely illusory.  The myth of "overpopulation " should not
>be used by the advocates of abortion to justify the killing of more than fifty 
>million unborn children( This number may be much higher...anyone there with 
>accurate info!) worldwide each year.  Even now we are already producing enough 
WHAT!!!!!!!!! Go to HELLL for saying that!!!!!!! Excuse me sir, but I am a
pro-choice vegetarian who has NEVER used a stupid excuse like overpopulation
to support my views!!!!!!! When a woman has an abortion, do you honestly
think she thinks its because her child is going to starve to death!???!!!!!

Most of your article was relatively interesting, but when I saw that you just
indicated what a fool you are!!!!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mwisdom@bnr.ca (Mark Wisdom)
Subject: Re: Veg restaurants in Dallas
Reply-To: mwisdom@bnr.ca (Mark Wisdom)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:13:05 GMT


In article <74579@apple.apple.COM>, rodneys@Apple.COM (Rodney Somerstein) writes:
> I will be in Dallas next week and am in need of some recommendations
> for vegetarian/vegetarian friendly restaurants.  Restaurants with a
> good selection of vegan dishes would be especially appreciated.
> 
> Please post here or via e-mail.  I will summarize any mail to the net.


Sorry I can't be of more help, but this is the only restaurant that I
listed so far for Dallas in the rec.food.veg World List of Vegetarian
Restaurants. It's not vegan, but in the case of Hare Krishna restaurants,
I usually call them beforehand to ask about the day's vegan selection.
Often, but not always, the selection of vegan food is quite good.


Dallas
------

Kalachandji's, 5430 Gurley Ave, 827-6330
-Hare Krishna lacto-vegetarian restaurant.


If anyone knows any more restaurants in Dallas or Fort Worth (none
listed so far), please post them or e-mail the details (with a small
description, address, and phone number) to myself.


-----------------------------------------------------
Mark Wisdom,  Bell-Northern Research,  Ottawa, Canada
Disclaimer: Above opinions are my own, and not BNR's.
-----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: Learn to make a kill file
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 14:43:16 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1992Nov17.195445.24993@cs.nott.ac.uk> nlc@vulcan.xtel.co.uk (Neil Cook) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.081616.13238@abo.fi>, abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:
>|> 
>|> If you want to avoid reading a person's postings, e.g. mine,
>|> edit the kill file by typing Ctrl-k and then entering a line
>|> /Abhay/h:j or /abulsari@aton.abo.fi/h:j
>|> 
>|> Kill files make life easier for everyone.
>|> 
>
>This is simply not true. Kill files are an artifact which have had to be 
>created to deal with people such as yourself. Shouting rhetoric on street 
>corners with the excuse "You can put your hands over your ears if you want",
>is a good analogy. I don't want to have to use my kill file. It is a
>necessary evil, not a good thing.
>
>In real life, people follow social conventions. However, there are always
>some people who will carry on talking even if nobody is listening, no matter
>how many times people tell them to push off. 
>
>Despite your belief in kill files, there is (was) such a thing as net
>etiquette. Posting any old rubbish with the words "use the kill file" is 
>a cop-out. 
>
>If you and Ted moderated your postings, perhaps offering to email people
>with interesting articles, or at least finding out if anyone wants to read them
>first, then you might not be flamed so much.
>
>Finally, there is such a thing a MONEY. It costs a lot of money to post
>an article to the world. Doing such a thing which
>1) Most people don't want to read
>and
>2) Generates enormous amounts of pointless followups/flames etc.
>
>Is a waste of resources, bandwidth and time (of people reading/killing etc).
>
>|> With regards,
>|> 
>|> Abhay
>
>with love and peace to vegetarians everywhere,
>
>Neil.

Neil, your feedback here is most appropriate, and your thoughts are
well articulated.

This past week alone, Abhay posted at least five unsolicited articles on
environmental issues in rec.food.veg. Each perhaps exceeded 100 lines of
text. The articles were inappropriate both for their length and their content,
and since nobody followed up with comments, we can assume there was little
interest.

Rather than post at sci.environment, talk.environment, and
talk.politics.animals, Ted and Abhay would rather do their grandstanding
here in rec.food.veg among a less willing audience.

If the payment for posting these lengthy, unsolicited articles came from
money out of their own pockets, maybe they'd see matters from our
point of view.
From: jamesh@aifh.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: More B12 news.
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:46:48 GMT
Reply-To: jamesh@aifh.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton)
Organization: Dept of AI, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <23NOV92.01351638@nerus.pfc.mit.edu>, mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu writes:
# I just read a disturbing article on B12 deficiency in what used to be the
# East-West Journal.  A doctor has found that more patients he is seeing have
# B12 deficiency.  He's seeing it not just in vegans but also vegetarians who
# eat dairy, and even some non-vegetarians.  He's found that vegetarians eat a
# lot of greens and thus have high folic acid intake and that appears to mask
# the normal deficiency of pernicious anemia, but neurological damage is still
# occurring.  He's also found that the normal b12 blood test is not necessarily
# a valid test for the problem, as some absorption syndromes prevent the b12
# from being absorbed by cells from the blood.  He uses a different test which
# involves looking at nuclei, something he found in medical texts, which shows
# if neurological damage is occurring or not.  Something to think about.
# 
# Mark London
# MRL@NERUS.PFC.MIT.EDU

The most common cause of B12 deficiency is lack of intrinsic factor in the
stomach, which prevents absorbption of B12, and according to 'Food for a
future' by
Jon-Wynne Tyson,some studies have shown that B12 deficiency is MORE common
amongst
non veggies than it is amongst vegans, and it's very rare in lifelong vegans.
In 
the light of this, the above is worrying for everyone...

James