From: New Liberation News Service via Jym Dyer <jym@mica.berkeley.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: NEWS: Feminists Integrate Men-Only Rape Talk
Followup-To: talk.rape
Date: 9 Jan 1993 20:03:50 GMT
Organization: The Naughty Peahen Party Line
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Keywords: press rape
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

[From PeaceNet nlns.samples Conference]
[Also Posted to ACTIV-L and misc.activism.progressive (by Somebody Else)]

================================================================
=> From: New Liberation News Service <nlns@igc.apc.org>
=> Subject: NLNS: Feminists Integrate Men-Only Rape Talk

Feminists Integrate Men-Only Rape Talk
Jenny Brown, The Gainesville Iguana

GAINESVILLE, FL (NLNS) -- Nearly twenty years after feminists
busted into the men-only Blue Key Banquet, Campus National
Organiziation for Women members forced their way into a
Dec. 10th rape talk which was to allow only men. "Groups
of privileged people aren't going to meet alone and figure
out how to end their privilege," concluded Campus NOW after
several women representing the group entered and asked
questions during the Rape Awareness Week forum that had
been billed as "men only."

	Feminists' discomfort at the increasing emphasis on
men-only rape talks became alarmed when Campus NOW member Bill
Stephenson attended and taped a men-only rape program last year.
After listening to the tape, Campus NOW activists concluded
that the forum was not only not helping to stop rape, it was
perpetuating sexist beliefs and behavior, and they decided to
integrate this year's program.

	In a particularly glaring example from the tape, forum
leader and University Police Department officer David Andrews
stated, "Approximately 50% of rapes reported are false.  The
girls [sic] are trying to get back at someone, some girls are
emotionally unstable, maybe her parents can't afford to keep
her in school, so she's looking for a way to get back to the
house. . . . So that's the reality [false reports], something
you always have to keep in mind [if a woman tells you she's been
raped.]  You might want to sign a contract before you make love.
[Male audience laughs.]  It's a part of human nature.  Women see
a way to get something they want and they're going to use it."

	Campus NOW went to this year's forum with leaflets
containing rape statistics and a page on why they were there,
which contained the quote above on the reverse side.  When
NOW arrived, two women officials in the Division of Housing
physically blocked them from entering and engaging them in a
long discussion. After about ten minutes, NOW officers decided
that the discussion was just a stalling tactic and they pushed
their way into the room.  Seven women entered in all.  In
addition, two male NOW members attended the function as part of
the protest.  (Later, Assistant Housing Director Vicki Williams,
one of the women who had physically blocked the door, was quoted
in the Alligator (the University of Florida mainstream paper) as
saying, "I didn't want the women . . . they couldn't come into
the room.")

	NOW distributed leaflets to the all-male audience.  The
housing officials followed them around taking the leaflets from
the men, saying "You don't have to keep that."  One man said he
was told three times that he didn't have to keep the flyer.

	This year's program was again led by Andrews and by
a female peer educator from the Sexual Assault Recovery Service,
who said it was the first workshop she'd ever led.  Her presence
there was a concession to a demand by NOW.  They had called the
University Police Department to ask that a woman lead the
workshop.

	Despite charges that NOW was violating the men's right
to freedom of association, it turned out that the women were
the ones illegally being blocked from entry, since under the
Sunshine Law, "strictly speaking, it had to be open to everyone
that wanted to go" Paul Gates, a research assistant at the
Brecher Center for Freedom of Information was quoted as saying
in the *Alligator* two days later.

"Comfortable"

	The main reason given for having a men-only group was
so that men would "feel comfortable asking frank questions
about rape without fear of retribution" in the words of police
spokeswoman Angie Tipton. Former organizer Daniel Klein said the
forum's 'purpose was to provide a comfortable atmosphere for men
to discuss rape and ask questions about it.'

	Many feminists said that they thought it was wrong for
men to feel comfortable about rape. If men feel uncomfortable in
a forum like that, that's good, said one feminist who is a man.

	But people who attended both last year's forum, which
had just men, and this year's, stated that there was much more
free-flowing discussion this year.  Even Andrews stated after
the program that with or without women it was "pretty much the
same."  He stated that at this age, "they pretty much put into
words what they're thinking."

	And one student reporter wasn't at all shy about how
he felt about rape.  When a Campus NOW member wouldn't give him
her name in an interview after the program, he said to her, "I
hope you get raped," and left.  She later went to his reporting
class, announced what he had said to her, and asked if this
was how reporters were supposed to act.

	With women present, however, the program organizers did
not play the audiotapes they had played last year.  One had a
woman talking about being raped and another was a tape of a 911
telephone call by a woman as her house was being broken into and
as she was being attacked.  Stephenson described the latter as a
"snuff tape."  The organizers explained that they were too
graphic for women to hear.  "We can get raped, but it's too
graphic for us to hear" one woman complained bitterly.  Instead
of hearing the tapes, one of the NOW women testified about being
raped in order to support a point she was bringing up.  Others
talked about their own and friends experiences trying to report
rapes to law enforcement.  Others cited statistics wherein
nearly half of men said that they would force a woman to do
something sexual if they didn't think they would be caught.

	[Note: This 911 tape is used in rape crisis centers
as part of the training of rape crisis counselors.  The tape
is indeed graphic, but as most rape crisis counselors are
women, it can hardly be considered too graphic for women to
hear.  --Jym]

	The formal presentation was short and boring.  The
discussion following it centered around what constituted rape
and women raping men, Stephenson said he thought that the main
point of the questions about what constituted rape was to figure
out how to get away with it.  NOW members who attended were
amazed that the facilitators allowed the audience to go on and
on in misconceptions and distortions.  When it became clear that
the obvious answers would never be given (such as the legal
definition of rape, or why women don't report rape) NOW members
raised their hands and contributed their comments.

	Another theme, which consumed a large portion of the
program, was women raping men.  When the woman moderator, Liz
Kretzedemas, pointed out that this was a vanishingly small
portion of all rapes, she was ignored and the audience continued
to talk about it for several more minutes

Better Facilitators?

	In the face of the blatant inaccuracies on the part
of Andrews and a completely legalistic approach to why rape
is bad, some people argued that the problem was with the
leaders of the workshops, not that they were men, necessarily,
but that they weren't well trained. But student government spent
a considerable amount of money getting the out-of-town male
expert to another forum last year, the one which was reported
to have concluded that men couldn't help it.

	And while a woman co-presenter is a step forward, the
audience members simply ignored what she had to say on more than
one point.

	It is odd, too, that organizers will play tapes of women
in the role of victim, but will not admit women themselves, who
might be angry or manifest other signs of fighting back.

	At a time when budget constraints and the tendency of
the university to want to hide rape have severely curtailed
victims services, it's shameful that UF is spending money and
energy on men-only programs of doubtful effectiveness.

Resistances

	Many men and some women expressed disagreement with
the action.  NOW was criticized for everything from violating a
constitutional right to freedom of assembly to just hating men.

	In consciousness-raising after the action, many women
said that they had changed their minds several times on the
issue.  Things that made them think the action wasn't good were
that they were concerned about NOW's reputation -- that it was
a difficult action to explain and understand -- that it was
very hard to stand up against criticism from male and female
friends -- that there were certain legal rights that people had
to meet together -- that maybe men all on their own would learn
to stop raping.  "We want to think there's one good guy who will
stand up," one woman stated.

	Reasons to do the action were:  Experiences with men
in groups being worse than individually -- not wanting a group
with privileges talking about an issue of vital importance to
your life while excluding you -- the tape of the previous year's
talk -- the analogy of black people being excluded from a talk 
on racism -- that there aren't enough guys who are feminists --
if it messes up, women will pay the price -- it's better to
organize the most effective thing.

	Stephenson said he used to defend all-male groups and
that in his case it had to do with men wanting to feel good
about how great they are and not wanting to believe that there
are some issues men can't resolve on their own.

	Most people who testified in the evaluations of the
action agreed that it was good that it had been done.

Changes

	Some people interpreted NOW's action as meaning that
they believed that men couldn't change.  But an editorial signed
by the 7-member Campus NOW Board stated "Just as women must live
with men's sexism towards us every day, men who care about women
in their lives are going to have to bear it when we tell it like
it is, not cringe and say they're scared and that we're hurting
their feelings . . . men who truly want to fight rape will
welcome us into their forums so we can tell our side and so we
can confront them on their oppressive attitudes and actions."
While men could change, a men-only forum was not the way to
achieve that change.

	Women have been excluded from higher education,
higher-paying jobs, Florida Blue Key, the Florida legislature,
and many other all-male clubs which have been integrated only
through organized and militant feminist action.  It is ironic
that men-only clubs are coming back in the guise of being "for
the good of women."

	The Campus NOW Board editorial states: "Based on our
experience with men-only groups -- fraternities, men's sports,
groups of men screaming at us from cars -- men in such groups
frequently and openly display sexist attitudes and tend not
to object, but rather reward one another for sexist actions.
Because of this, Campus NOW stands against men-only groups."

The Gainesville Iguana can be reached c/o CISPLA, PO Box 14712,
Gainesville, FL 32604.

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