HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Bashing, truth, etc.
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:11:09 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

[reply to hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu]
 
>I am afraid you misunderstand both what I said and also what is
>involved in "scientific" medicine.  I am putting on my professional hat
>here.
 
I will defer to your expertise in the area of statistics and its
appropriate application to scientific studies, but your statement:
 
>I do not need any data whatever to know that saccharin has an effect on
>cancer rates, or that vitamin C has an effect on longevity, or even that
>the most disreputable quack treatments have an effect.
 
is not exactly what the rest of us would consider consistent with
scientific medicine.  If these statements are true, it should be
possible to design studies to prove them true.  If the beneficial effect
of some treatment is unmeasurable, then its utility is negligible.
 
>The problem is how much is the effect, is the effect different for
>different individuals, how does it interact with other things, etc.
>The problem is not an easy one which can be handled with a simple
>statistical package.
 
Failure to come up with an appropriate statistical method to analyze the
results of the study is not a failure of statistics or of the scientific
method but of the study's design.  I suspect you have too often been
asked to come up with a plan for statistical analysis after a study has
been completed rather than at the more appropriate time when the study
is being designed.  In the case where a treatment has a measurable
effect only on a few subjects, it would be reasonable to identify
responders in an open-label trial, then restudy that subpopulation with
a double-blind, placebo-controlled crossover design.
 
>A professor of nutrition may make materials available to me, but is not
>allowed to give advice by law.  There are many actions which are
>illegal, even if all the cards are laid on the table.  Most of them
>should not be so.
 
In other words, you are recommending that the practice of medicine be
deregulated?
 
>In addition, there is effectively a conspiracy by government regulators
>to make information not available.  I have no way of finding out the
>information about a drug which I would consider appropriate for an
>intelligent decision, nor does a physician have access to that
>information.
 
What information are you speaking of?
 
>Prepaid medical care, whatever it is called, is a socialist conspiracy.
 
Ah, now I think I see where you're coming from.  You're a libertarian,
no?  I recognize the refrain.  I'm a liberal democrat.  We are at the
same end of the libertarian-totalitarian axis but at opposite ends of
the liberal-conservative axis.  From past experience, I'd say that our
positions on the latter are totally irreconcilable.  It is my belief
that the government has a responsibility to protect its citizens against
much avoidable adversity such as hunger, homelessness, and inadequate
medical care, which includes predation by quacks.  I suspect you will
disagree.

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Injections of a tender point with anesthetic.
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:13:29 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

[reply to mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu,]
 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:14:49 GMT
 
>My mother had back surgery to relieve pressure on nerves.  It worked,
>but soon after she developed a very painful area in one of the muscles
>in her back.  The doctors are not sure, but believe it to be either
>fibrotitis or an irritated nerve.  The only treatment that she found
>helped once was by a therapist who injected an anesthetic into the area
>before she manipulated her.  However, that therapist was in a different
>state, and show has not found one in her area that does that sort of
>treatment.  I have heard that sometimes such injection tender points
>will help for a long period.  Anyone know of such treatment?  Any reason
>why she is having a hard time finding people that do that?
 
Sounds like trigger point injections.  Whether a physical therapist is
allowed to do this probably varies from state to state.  A physiatrist
(physical medicine-rehabilitation specialist) can do these and is
probably the best person to see for this kind of problem.

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
From: donrm@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Don Montgomery)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:53:37 GMT
Subject: Cranberry Juice Antidote
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: sci.med

Last December 19, on Discovery Channel's "Justice Files",  mention was made
of a powerful, fast acting analgesic that had as it's antidote common cran-
berry juice.  They didn't mention what the drug was and electronically obl-
iteraited a crime report naming the substance.  It reportedly was in wide-
spread use during the Vietnam conflict as a field expedient until the ar-
rival of medical help.

Anyone know what this drug was?  How does cranberry juice counter its ef-
fects?

Don Montgomery
donrm@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com
From: caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Adiposity 101
Date: 3 Jan 93 13:10:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: omen.1993Jan03.131036.23291
Organization: Omen Technology INC, Portland Rain Forest

In article <1993Jan3.063107.9871@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan01.012918.4555@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg) writes:
>>The papers describing surgical fat removal usually report
>>permanent weight reduction.  There have been anecdotal reports
>>of weight increase after love handle removal, but these may have
>>involved previous dieting.  I am unaware of any reports of
>>weight rebound caused by fat removal surgery itself - perhaps
>>Gordon has some documentation he can share with us????????
>
>How can you call the surgery described there "love handle removal"?
>You're removing the steamer trunk, not the handles.

The one report of post liposuction weight gain I've read
concerned an increase in breast size following, yes, "love
handle removal".  It is possible the breasts atrophied while
subjects crash dieted in an attempt to rid themselves of their
love handles; after the liposuction and cessation of crash
dieting the breasts would return to normal size.

>
>In any case, I've heard of weight regain after such major surgery.
>It's not "caused" by this surgery, it's generally caused by massive
>overeating after the surgery.  This is a surprise?

Steve, can you cite some refereed papers in the scientific
literature, or is this another "tabloid factoid"?

-- 
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX          ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf 
Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ
  Omen Technology Inc    "The High Reliability Software"
17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD   Portland OR 97231   503-621-3406
From: doyle+@pitt.edu (Howard R Doyle)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Liver Cancer
Date: 24 Dec 92 13:34:34 GMT
Organization: Pittsburgh Transplant Institute

In article <!lhr6!=@lynx.unm.edu> pjohnso@polaris.unm.edu (Zoe Paddy Johnson CIRT CSOS) writes:
>I am looking for some information for a friend.  Last month on *Prodigy*
>in their health news section there was a news item about a new and promising
>treatment for liver cancer involving cryo-surgery and ultra-sound.  I read
>it and noted it, never imagining that a friend would have need of the 
>information just a short time later.  I am unable to remember relevant
>details like who? and where?.  Did anyone else see this item?  or have other
>information about this that might be of help in locating this item or, better
>yet, the medical center and doctors involved?  I think I remember that it
>was some place east of New Mexico, like maybe ?Pitt??
>Thanks,
>ZoeJ





It's being done at Allegheny General Hospital.
(here in Pittsburgh).
One of the physicians involved, if I'm not mistaken, is Gary Onik.

I can't give you more details because we don't have any experience
with the procedure.

===============================================
Howard Doyle
doyle+@pitt.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Subject: Re: Adiposity 101
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:34:14 GMT

In <1992Dec29.024354.0201957@locus.com> yazz@locus.com (Bob Yazz) writes:
>-- I wouldn't say the obese are overeating,
>I'd say that in order to maintain normal weight they have to undereat.
>"Normal" eating results, for them, in obesity, so eating must become
>abnormal to compensate for abnormal metabolic processing.  I submit that
>that choice of words is less likely to be construed as suggesting that
>someone has a "character flaw".

Some obese are overeating.  Some do so because of a "character flaw"--namely
an eating disorder--and some do because they like to eat or tend to eat
high-calorie (i.e., typical American fast food) diets.

I won't presume to guess at what percentage of obese people fall into this
category of overeaters and what percentage fall into Chuck and Bob's 
"abnormal metabolic processors" but it is just silly for them to ignore
the reality of the overeaters.

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: amt@linus.mitre.org (Anne Tallant)
Subject: Migraine Medication
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:58:20 GMT


If verapamil proved to be ineffective as a migraine prophylactic for a
migraine sufferer, would propranolol be any better?  Are the medications
significantly different enough for migraine control?  Would their
in/effectiveness depend upon the individual?

Thanks in advance.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Anne Tallant                                      amt@linus.mitre.org
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Is circumizing barbaric?
Date: 28 Dec 92 01:16:58 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <78377@hydra.gatech.EDU> iadt1jm@prism.gatech.EDU (Jean McSpadden) writes:
>In <17794@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>
>>Actually, I've seen this only in old books on morality and such.
>>I've never seen it in any of the reputable text books like
>>Osler's textbook, etc.  What reputable doctors of the time
>>advocated it to prevent masturbation?
>
>"Circumcision is necessary to prevent masturbation" ... which leads to.. "general
>languor, depression, loss of memory, epilepsy, hydracondria, hysteria,
>and insanity" (from _Maternity, A Popular Treatise for Young Wives and
>Mothers" by Tullio Verdi M.D (1870)).  
>
>Dr. Philip Lowell - The editor of the most widely read health column in the 
>world "Care of the Baby" in his book _Health of the Child_(1926) states: 
>"Even though it may be astonishing to many mothers, circumcision to prevent 
>masturbation is often recommendable for girls as well as boys".   
>

Well, neither of these men have gone down in history as famous
physicians, I'm afraid, although I am partial to Verdi's operas.















-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Generic drug store brands.
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:29:36 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <b7prn+b@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>>>Is it worth the money to pay for brand name drugs such as Tylenol versus drug
>>>store brands?
>>No.
>>>Am I simply paying for the name?
>>Yes.
>>>I notice a difference in the
>>>non-active ingredients.  Are they significant?
>>No.
>
>I spent an agonizing weekend in a Daytona motel over Thanksgiving as 
>the result of a ruptured spinal disk-induced muscle spasm.  My wife
>had mistakenly allowed the Phar-More druggist to refill my 'script for 
>Robaxin (muscle relaxant) with the store's generic right before we left.  
>After two nights without sleep, I visited a local doc-in-the-box for a 
>dose of the real thing.  Problem solved.
>My wife, who also uses Robaxin on an infrequent basis for soft 
>tissue back pain, tried the generic and noted a similar lack of effect.
>Dyer can say what he likes but for me there will never be another 
>generic substitute for a serious drug in my life if I can help it.  
>Generic aspirin and tylenol is one thing; drugs for serious problems 
>is another.

We were discussing brand names of acetaminophen, not that a so-called "muscle
relaxant" is a serious drug, and acetaminophen isn't.  Acetaminophen at least
has the advantage of having a measurable pharmacological effect.

>The question I have to ask is this.  For the few dollars' difference in
>price, is it worth it to experiment?  Not for me.

I'm am sure the knowledge that the manufacturer was A.H. Robins had a much
greater effect on your back pain than any pharmacological effect of either
form of the drug.  Robaxin is a worthless drug, without any demonstrable
effect at the doses prescribed (it's essentially an extremely weak sedative
prescribed in sub-sub-sedative doses; for the chemically curious, methocarbamol
is the carbamate ester of guaifenesin, the expectorant in Robitussin, also sold
by A.H. Robins--surprise.)  Sedative drugs like Valium have some marginal
utility in treating back spasm, but the placebo effect is very strong.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Occasional "brownouts".
Date: 24 Dec 92 15:04:11 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Dec14.140219.528@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:

>Since then I have been in e-mail correspondence with someone who'd hoped to get
>me to retract this statement.  I do not agree to retract the statement because
>I am not yet convinced that that which is "mental", of or pertaining to the
>*mind*, is one-and-the-same with that which is of or pertaining to the *brain*.
>
>However, I DO agree with my correspondent that there is a *POLITICAL* danger in
>trying to distinguish sharply between "mental" & "physical" *illness*, because
>it allows old patterns of prejudice toward "mental"
>illness to remain unchallenged.  I do not agree that the appropriate course of
>action is to try to blur the distinction between "brain" events and "mental"
>events.  I believe that the proper course of action is to work toward reducing
>myth and prejudice about mental illness, and discrimination toward those who
>suffer from it.

I'd be just as happy to see the word "mental illness" go out of fashion.
Most diseases like schizophrenia are now considered brain diseases,
of chemistry if not structure.  There are political reasons for retaining
it as pertaining to fund-raising, governmental appropriations,
dividing line between what psychiatrists treat and what neurologists
treat, etc.  Certainly epilepsy is much more in the domain of neurology
and thus "brain" rather than psychiatry "mind".  But really, the lines
between neurology and psychiatry (which were blurred 100 years ago
and diverged with Freud) are now getting blurry once again as psychology
is even becoming more physiologically based.

The problem with "mental illness" is people think that means
"it's all in your mind, you just have to get hold of yourself"
or some such tommyrot.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Deodorants Harmful?
Date: 31 Dec 92 23:59:52 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

[reply to dbailey@cix.compulink.co.uk]
 
>I have not said that Alzheimers is caused by aluminium, but instead
>that I'm concerned that there might be a link.
 
An aluminum-Alzheimer's connection was suggested by 1) the existence of
"dialysis dementia" from aluminum toxicity and 2) the purported finding
of higher concentrations of aluminum in senile plaques.  The latter has
now been shown to be artifactual.  Dialysis dementia is really quite a
bit different clinically and pathologically.  We can therefor state with
certainty that there is *no* evidence of a role for aluminum in
Alzheimer's.
 
>The homoeopathic provings, which ARE scientific in their own terms and
>for their own purposes, are enough grounds for such concern, since
>Altheimers-alike symptoms were recorded.
 
Are you saying that homeopathy should be held to a different standard of
scientific rigor than we require of scientific medicine?
 
>I'm never happy when someone makes a categorical statement about there
>being *NO* connection, or *NO* evidence, unless some figures and
>references are provided.
 
No evidence means that there are no figures and references to supply.
 
>I'm curious that no reference has been made to the reported possible
>evidence of Alzheimers being linked to infection through the food chain
>- reported in south-east Asia where relatives have by custom eaten the
>brains of their dead, and in connection with so-called mad-cow disease.
 
There is no accepted link between kuru and Alzheimer's.  While it is
true that they are both dementias, the neuropathology is entirely
different.  Are you referring to studies reporting abnormal cleavage of
prion protein precursor in Alzheimer's?  It has been recently shown that
PPP is cleaved at the wrong site in Alzheimer's patients, leading to
build up of incorrectly disposed of PPP fragments as the main
constituents of senile plaques and neurofibrillary tangles.  This is the
best biochemical clue we have at present concerning the etiology of
Alzheimer's, but it is not thought that this protein is an infectious
agent, despite the fact that kuru is transmitted by a prion.  The theory
that I think is best supported by current evidence is that Alzheimer's
is a common genetic disorder with incomplete penetrance, modified by
environmental or endogenous factors, perhaps oxidants (but not
aluminum).

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Nicotine Withdrawal Help Needed
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:51:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.181229.14076@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <72611@cup.portal.com> mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) writes:
>>> I receive less nicotine from my current levels of smoking than are provided
>>> in the lowest dosage nicotine patch.
>>Are you not using the patch for this reason?  You can cut the patch dosage
>>in half by taking a scissors and cutting the patch in half.  Just use half
>>of it at a time (or whatever you feel the correct dosage is).
>
>I don't believe this is the case; the rate of absorption is crucially
>dependent on an intact membrane between the skin and the nicotine
>reservoir.  Someone could get very ill following your instructions.
>
>-- 

Someone I work with used the nicotine patches when he quit smoking,
and had the same problem (wanting a smaller dosage).  He bent the
patch and taped it back away from his skin, and this seemed to work.
From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Tuberculosis
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 14:01:09 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Quoting from _ALERT_, the newsletter of the National Council for
Environmental Balance:

About 33% of the world's population harbors _Mycobacterium_ tuberculosis,
and each year 2.9 million succumb to it.  A steady decline in TB in the
U.S. reversed in 1985, and 26,283 new cases were reported in 1991, an
increase of 18%.  The increase is not confined to groups at high risk for
AIDS;  TB cases in U.S.-born children under the age of five increased by
34% from 1987 to 1990.  The majority of patients with TB have acquired
the infection from non-intimate contacts.  It is spread by droplet infection,
and there is no "threshold".  Animal studies have shown that one organism
can cause infection;  you can catch it on the bus.

There is an additional ominous note:  the emergence of drug-resistant
strains.  One-third of all cases surveyed in New York City in 1991
were resistant to one or more drugs, and resistance has been reported from
at least 36 states.  The case fatality rate for multi-drug resistant
TB is 40 to 60%, the same as for untreated disease.

The reemergence of TB follows decades of neglect of control measures.
By 1989, only a single professional remained in the Tuberculosis Unit
of the World Health Organization.

Patients with active, sputum-positive TB need to be isolated in
negative pressure facilities.  Ultraviolet radiation is effective for
decontaminating droplets in the air but is not a CDC requirement.
Standard surgical masks approach zero effectiveness;  infected droplets
pass right through, especially after the mask has been worn for about 10
to 15 minutes.  Respirators are needed but may not be tolerated by
persons with chronic obstructive lung disease of asthma.  BCG vaccine
has been recommended for medical personnel, but its reported effectiveness
ranges from 0% to 77%, and it destroys the usefulness of the PPD skin test.

--------------------------------------------------------------

The National Council for Environmental Balance promotes education on
energy and environmental issues.  The above text was quoted from an
article discussing how imprudent public policy with regard to the use
of insecticides, wetland preservation, energy-efficient buildings, etc.
contributes toward disease (malaria, encephalitis, etc.).  They may be
reached at:

National Council for Environmental Balance
4169 Westport Road
PO Box 7732
Louisville, KY
40207

(502) 896-8731

-----------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, I have a small collection of pre-1920 medical books on tuberculosis.
It is a very frightening disease, killing about 150,000 Americans a year
at the turn of the century.  One of my books is filled with color drawings
of tuberculous throat lesions, and they are quite scary.  If drug-resistant
tuberculosis really catches on, we will be facing a disaster of the first
magnitude.  Of all the ways to die, death by TB is certainly among the
least attractive.
From: dlbarbo@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Dennis Barbour)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Body Temperature
Date: 23 Dec 92 02:37:21 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <1992Dec16.094919.4995@visual.spk.wa.us> pwageman@visual.spk.wa.us (Peggy Wageman) writes:
>What is the normal body temperature?  I had always thought it was 98.6, but
>I heard recently that there is a range, and that 98.6 was merely in the range.
>Could anybody explain this to me.  Thanks,  Peggy Wageman

There was a very informative article in _The New England Journal of
Medicine_ three or four months ago that dealt with normal human body
temperature. Body temperature does indeed vary throughout the day,
reaching a nadir at night and a shallower minimum around midday 
(accounting for our drowsiness after lunch). One interesting fact,
if I remember correctly, is that no significant difference exists
between male and female body temperature variations. I can dig up
the article if anyone is interested.

db