HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ernesto@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Teodoro E. Gelabert)
Subject: Re: Astrology
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:13:15 GMT

Thanks,
Teddy

-- 
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Omp                                "The way that can be spoken of     /
ernesto@phoenix.princeton.edu       is not the constant way;"        /
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 18 Nov 1992 10:26:44 EST
From: <IO20393@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: About arcana VI...
 <1e5nkiINNnmr@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>

In one posting, (and I can't reprint stuff on my system), someone said
that they consider the Lovers to represent passionate love rather that
committed love...to put an interesting perspective on it, I have a
Tarot Deck based on Celtic mythology, in which the Lovers is represented
by a couple walking along a path, with dwarves trying to lure away
the woman with promises of riches if she'll sleep with them...I don't
remember the names of all the people, but the gist of it is that
she is considering their offer beihind her husbands back...not the
most committed of loves, but passion/greed is certainly represented.

And it Harm None...
amy rae
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: George Paap <george_paap@email.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Re: New Topic: Reading for/about yourself...
Organization: Motorola - SPS
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.0
     <1992Nov21.182313.16088@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>
     <1992Nov23.140027.9653@axion.bt.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:39:55 GMT

I do a monthly reading on the new moon, along with a reading
on an important relationship in my life.  I have found that over time,
the readings have been consistent and accurate.  For example,
the outcome of one month will show up as the environment or foundation of 
the next month (the same card), and accurately reflect my situation at
that time.
Also, all the major changes in my relationship have been predicted in the
cards.

Specifically, at the time of one reading, none of the cards seemed to fit
my
perspective of the relationship.  A week later, there was a crisis in my 
relationship, and the reading was extremely accurate.  I think the
hardest part
in reading for yourself is not ONLY interpreting the cards in the light
of what you
want but also looking at unpleasant alternatives.  By reading regularly
and keeping track of my readings over time and if my interpretations were
realized, I have been better able to view both sides.  My belief in
divination has increased
as my the accuracy and interpretation of the cards has improved over time.

As for my method:  (I believe that whatever method feels right to you is
the
best method) I use the Voyager deck.  I used to fan the cards but I found 
myself unable to pick cards without thinking of which place I had picked
the last
card etc.  Now I just shuffle the deck 3 or 9 times (if I just did a 10
card spread),
cut the deck in half and take the top card of the bottom half.  This
effectively
removes my brain from the process and lets me intuitively choose the cut.
Then I shuffle once, cut the deck and choose the next card etc.  I find
that
my best readings are when I am in a relaxed/meditative state and I am 
emotionally involved in the reading (my relationship readings have been
more
accurate than my "generic" monthly ones).

I usually use a celtic cross but I have also just asked questions, and
choosen
a card (building a conversation of sorts), shuffling the whole deck each
time.  

I always have a difficult time interpreting the 8th and 9th cards in the
spread
(environment & Hopes/Fears).  How does the 8th card differ from the 1st?
Any suggestions?

George Paap

I am my opinions.
(which almost certainly are not those of my employer, which kindly 
provides me with this form of free speech)
From: CCS105@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: readings on yourself, help..
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:45:11 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Penn State University

After a nice trip, there was only one thing I couldn't get out of my head..
The question of why some people simply won't believe that they can do
readings on themselves.  It bothers me that people don't even try...

I know that every system is different, along with people...But this is the
third time I have run across a person that flat out says, it's impossible.
My question is, where does this line of thinking come from...Perhaps they
have some style out I am unaware of...I do not really probe into this feild
greatly, but i have at least a basic understanding of the system, and how
it works, in dealing with energy flow.Again , I realize that all things
may not work with all people...but they should at least try first..
Perhaps the reason is that they are not trained to seperate thier emotions
with the activity at hand...
I leave you muffled...later, gersha,

smitty.
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: "jim kane" <jim.kane@canrem.com>
Subject: just a question
Reply-To: "jim kane" <jim.kane@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 22 Nov 92 01:29:00 EST

RO>phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman) writes:
RO>|I would like to know how tarot cards are supposed to work.
RO>|Are they supposedly driven by the same elements said to cause
RO>|other things to happen ie fate?

RO>Ya know.
RO>I don't have a bloody clue.
RO>I've been reading more or less successfully for a number of years now, and
RO>I've never found a satisfactory answer to that question. They work, but I'll
RO>be dammed if I know why.

   Many people believe that synchronicity is what makes these mantic
   arts work. Synchronicity (meaningful coincidence) is more or less
   when two seemingly unrelated (coincidental) events happen to share a
   common thread. The cards represent, in symbolic form, the many
   processes or experiences inherent in the human psyche, collectively
   speaking. When you pick out a card from the deck, whichever card you
   pick out symbolizes the relevant process. Whatever happens in a
   moment of time shares the qualities of that moment. This is why it
   helps to ritualize the process of giving a reading, it helps connect
   the unconscious to receive information.

---
  SLMR 2.1a  My reality check just bounced.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: ewn@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: New Topic: Reading for/about yourself...
Date: 21 Nov 92 18:23:13 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Cornell University

In article <#+mq!cq@lynx.unm.edu>,
blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes: 
> 
> Greetings!
> Just wanted to kick up some discussion around here. :)
> Couple of questions-
> 1) How accurate do you find readings that you do for yourself? Do you have
> a particular deck that you use for yourself and not for others? Do you have
> any problems reading for yourself ever?
>

My readings for myself have not until recently been very accurate at all.
They hit the right subject, certainly, but they basically told me exactly what
I wanted to hear.  That's the major problem with reading for yourself; emotions
get in the way of intuition.

I've gotten a bit better since I started using the Oswald Wirth deck for
personal readings.  No symbolic meanings for the lesser arcana (pretty pip
cards, basically) but the major arcana are much more personally significant. 
Still somewhat emotion tinged so I dont do it too often, but also significantly
more accurate.

 
> 2) Have you ever done a reading for somebody else (especially a 'romance' based
> reading) that had yourself in it?
> 
> r.

Nope.  In fact I've never done a reading for a romantic partner- they've never
really wanted one, when I've had a partner at all.

MB
From: rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: Raml
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:29:29 GMT
Organization: UB

eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes:


>Has any one have any leads on a source presently in print on the subject of
>"Sand Divination"  either Arabic or Madagascar in origin?

>I am interested in the Skiddy of Madagascar as well as Raml "sand divination
>that has been used for years. I have been told that it is still practiced in
>the Middle East but the last time I was in Egypt I could not find anyone who
>would do it.

>I believe that in the Western world it is identified as a form of Geomancy.

>Any comments?

>Eshin-Fun

	There is heaps and heaps of material available from Golden-Dawn
derivatives and rip-offs on "geomancy," which was apparently well-researched
by the early folks -- Westcott, I think.  It's supposed to be related
to the spots of dice and the traditions and folklore of Europe... is that
anything like what you're looking for, or is that what you're trying to
get away from?

	Random sand fun tip #358:  Use colored sands in dishes to provide
a nice even monochrome surface for skrying! :)
Luck
Rick
Newsgroups: alt.divination,alt.magick,alt.pagan
From: anzlovar@wl.com (Bob Anzlovar)
Subject: Re: Tarot Spreads
Organization: Warner Lambert / Parke-Davis
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:35:25 GMT

In article <BxtAIB.M9@ddsw1.mcs.com> eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes:
>: 
>: I'd suggest taking this out of alt.magic, and putting it in alt.magick,
>: because it seems more appropriate (alt.magic is into slight of hand,
>: and parlor tricks, and this seems a bit more on the practical side to
>: me.)
>: 
>: btw, I think posting it would be nice.<<
>
>It is better posted and probably better answered if this post was in
>alt.divination where people there would have a greater interest in
>divinatory techniques.
>
>Eshin-Fun

I, for one, would disagree with this. Tarot *is* associated with Magick
(being one of the methods used in the Golden Dawn tradition, among
others). If this information goes to alt.divination, I won't see it (not
having an interest in divination in general) & I think there are others
who feel the same way. If the discussion degenerated to "this is a
spread I dealt the other night, what does it mean?", I'd agree with you.
But sharing of layouts here is within the scope of this forum, IMHO.


--
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:19:29 EST
From: <NMR103@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: Tarot

In article <1992Nov18.032636.26442@samba.oit.unc.edu>,
Stephen.Pflugfelder@launchpad.unc.edu (Stephen Pflugfelder) says:
>
>I am new to this group and I just have one question. I have tried to
>read cards in the past and they have been accurate, but is there a
>way to read the cards without memorizing all 78 meanings? I know this
>will probably sound really dumb but something like more meaning as the
>number increases? If not, is there an easy way to understand the cards?

Most of the fun in doing the Tarot is that you actually get to have
and develop a *relationship* with your cards. You tend to get a LOT
more accurate readings of them and the insights you get while reading
them are in general MUCH better. I understand how someone would want to
simply use the cards a few times for simple divinatory purposes, but
you get a lot more out of them if you do take time to look at each one
and figure out what exactly that card, and its divinatory meaning,
means to you.
(it's not hard to learn AT ALL, once you really get into it.)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: Re: Just a question
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 10:36:19 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman) writes:
|I would like to know how tarot cards are supposed to work.
|Are they supposedly driven by the same elements said to cause
|other things to happen ie fate?

Ya know. 
I don't have a bloody clue.
I've been reading more or less successfully for a number of years now, and
I've never found a satisfactory answer to that question. They work, but I'll
be dammed if I know why.
r.
From: acarr@pell2l10.alleg.edu (Amelia Carr)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: Astrology
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:57:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Allegheny College

In article <1992Nov19.223011.20325@Princeton.EDU>  
ernesto@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Teodoro E. Gelabert) writes:
>    I have yet to see any postings on astrology (don't get me wrong - I
> love tarot too, read them myself).  I was just wondering if there is
> another group for astrology are what?
>    Just wondering. 
>    Teddy
> -- 
> ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> Omp                                "The way that can be spoken of     /
> ernesto@phoenix.princeton.edu       is not the constant way;"        /
> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Yes.  See alt.astrology.
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: Re: Tarot
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 13:13:46 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Nov18.032636.26442@samba.oit.unc.edu> Stephen.Pflugfelder@launchpad.unc.edu (Stephen Pflugfelder) writes:
>I am new to this group and I just have one question. I have tried to
>read cards in the past and they have been accurate, but is there a 
>way to read the cards without memorizing all 78 meanings?

In brief, not really. But don't give up hope yet :)
There are plenty of books and other materials on the subject, in fact I'm sure
people around here wouldn't mind assisting either. There is even a deck out,
if I'm not mistaken, that has the meanings on it (and I'm not talking about the
Thoth, which also has 'definitions' on each card, this one is rider-waite
style, if I remember right).
To be honest, the 'meanings' behind an individual card aren't too hard to get
down- they start to fall into nice patterns- the major arcana can even be seen
as a story of a humans journey through life to the afterworld, but there is
plenty of source material about this out already.
Yet another option is to not use a regular deck- I personally use the 'Secret
Dakini Oracle'- its a bunch of pictoral images based on the regular tarot
cards and Eastern Indian religions, specifically the Dakinis. Anyways, these
cards have collages of pictures, as opposed to the usual pictures that one
finds on a regular deck. I find it easier to then assign my own meanings to
the cards based on their actual meaning, plus what I feel about the card. That
individiualizes the deck to me. Many people do the same with their own decks.
You establish a 'rapport' as it were. When you see, say, the 2 of disks, and
look at the (standard) picture, do you see a juggler? Change? A representation
of Infinity? Somebodies 2 cents worth? 
Whatever >you< see in that card, that is what that card should be defined for
you to be. For beginners, it seems well to 'go with the interpetations' from
either the material included with your deck, or from other printed sources,
until you get a good feel for the cards, and what they mean and stand for in
particular circumstantces.
Good luck and happy reading!
r.
Newsgroups: alt.divination,alt.magick,alt.pagan
From: eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun)
Subject: Re: Tarot Spreads
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:51:47 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

>>grimmea2@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Bouncey the Super Happy Fun Ball) writes:
: >sjgavula@css.itd.umich.edu (Susan Gavula) writes:
: >
: >
: >>I have a file of different spreads that folks have used to
: >>read tarot.  If there is enough interest I will repost the file.
: >>If you want to submit a spread that works for you just email it
: >>and I will include it in my file.
: >
: >>Susan
: 
: I'd suggest taking this out of alt.magic, and putting it in alt.magick,
: because it seems more appropriate (alt.magic is into slight of hand,
: and parlor tricks, and this seems a bit more on the practical side to
: me.)
: 
: btw, I think posting it would be nice.<<

It is better posted and probably better answered if this post was in
alt.divination where people there would have a greater interest in
divinatory techniques.

Eshin-Fun

Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: Re: About arcana VI...
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 09:06:46 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

So much of what this card means is dependent on what deck you're using,
what spread its in, what sort of question is being asked and what cards
are around it. 
In brief, I've always found this card to be one of the more enigmatic of
the major arcana- its still a powerful card, though. 
In >most< instances I've seen, it represents love- of the human variety (not
necessarily physical (sex) love, but even up to 'pure' human love) as opposed
to spiritual understanding and being at one with the cosmos.
For reading I do, when it shows up it usually indicates just what it says:
Love.
From where or from what depends on the querant and surrounding cards :)
peace-
r.
From: agray@axion.bt.co.uk (Andy Gray)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: About arcana VI...
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:02:59 GMT
Organization: BT Laboratories

As I see it, mainly based on the Mythic Tarot, the 'Lovers' represents a choice
that is available. It is not one that *has* to be made in order for something to
happen, for that would be represented by the Death card which calls for change,
but merely that a choice is there for the choosing. I haven't worked with my
cards closely for a couple of months, so they are not with me, but if memory
serves me right the three choices are Aphrodite, Demeter, and Athene.

   ^__^				 ___ 	 ___ 	 ___ 	 ___ 	 ___
  (-  0)	Andy		<*,*>	<*,*>	<*,*>	<*,*>	<*,*>
  | \/ |			[`-']	[`-']	[`-']	[`-']	[`-']
  \    /    NeXTMail Welcome	-"-"-	-"-"-	-"-"-	-"-"-	-"-"-
====^^======================================================================
    \/		Software Technology Division, SSTF/306, British Telecom
                Research Labs., Martlesham Heath, Ipswich IP5 7RE, U.K.
Andy Gray       Tel: +44 473 646647    e-mail: agray@axion.bt.co.uk
		"It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculation,
		if you live near him." J.R.R.Tolkein
============================================================================
From: acarr@pell2l10.alleg.edu (Amelia Carr)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: New Topic: Reading for/about yourself...
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:56:57 GMT
Organization: Allegheny College

In article <#+mq!cq@lynx.unm.edu> blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
> 
> Greetings!
> Just wanted to kick up some discussion around here. :)
> Couple of questions-
> 1) How accurate do you find readings that you do for yourself? Do you  
have
> a particular deck that you use for yourself and not for others? Do you  
have
> any problems reading for yourself ever?
> 
	This is an important topic, and I've worried about it a lot over  
the years.  If you use Tarot as a personal meditation guide (which most of  
us seem to), then you really must do it for yourself.  But I believe that  
it's very easy to read what you want into the cards--especially romance,  
or when you're trying to understand the references to other people.  I've  
found that it's important to let other people read for you, just to get  
perspective.
         Lately, I've found myself doing quick little layouts to answer  
small questions.  Even just pulling two cards:  What will be the effect if  
I do something; what if I don't.  Of course, it's impossible to test the  
accuracy of this, but I've been amazed at the insight I've gained.  But I  
also see my need to read for myself as part of a larger problem in making  
decisions, or being in situations where I have no clear sense of what the  
dynamic is.  I think I'd rather be in a situation where I didn't want to  
read for myself for advice, but merely for spiritual guidance.

> 
> 2) Have you ever done a reading for somebody else (especially a  
'romance' based reading) that had yourself in it?

	Yes.  How to handle that is tricky, especially if you have  
confidential information.  
	When dealing with cards representing people, I always read on two  
levels, however.  One treats those cards as distinct, real people in the  
querants life.  But I also like to look at those cards as aspects of the  
querant's personality, or representing different emotional needs that the  
querant expects other people to fill.  If you see yourself in the reading,  
you might ask why the person is coming to you for a reading...  

	
> 
> r.
From: cahoon@milli.cs.umn.edu (Forrest Clinton Cahoon)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Temperance
Summary: here's my interpretation, what's yours?
Keywords: Tarot, Temperance
Date: 22 Nov 92 17:44:18 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.

In the discussion of Arcanum VI, someone asked for an explanation of
the meaning of Temperance (Arcanum XIV).  Well, I'll give it a shot:

I always thought that Temperance indicated the ability to say (or in
general, communicate) the right thing to someone else to get across
your meaning, even though this may be something quite different than
just saying what you mean.  In other words, it is to possess an
understanding of how the other person interprets things, and to adjust
your own message accordingly.

Did that make any sense?  Is it totally at odds with your
interpretation of that card?

                           - f -


--
|  Forrest Cahoon      | cahoon@cs.umn.edu |------------------------------|
|  850 21st Ave SE     |-------------------| Only unbalanced people       |
|  Mpls MN  55414-2514 |                   |        can tip the scales... |
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: cj@eno.esd.sgi.com (C.J. Silverio)
Subject: Re: About arcana VI...
Reply-To: cj@sgi.com
Organization: SGI TechPubs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 23:11:30 GMT


In article <Bxn5y0.nx@DMI.USherb.CA>, saucc00@DMI.USherb.CA writes:
> I have a question about the arcana VI, the lovers.
[...]
> So I'd like to know what people think or how you see this arcana.

Here's my take on it.  Make of it what you will.

------
The Lovers means choice.  Discrimination.  A man stands
between an older woman (his mother?) and a younger woman
(his lover?).  He must decide.

The imagery, for me, evokes the apple and the Garden of Eden.
The Querent must choose:  do you eat the apple?  I take a
decidedly non-Xtian approach.  The apple (the younger woman) is
experience, action, questioning, self-awareness-- the dangerous
course that leads to greater rewards.  Refusing the apple
(choosing the older woman) is a safe course, but you never get
to learn the difference between good & evil.  It is obedience,
safety, innocence. You don't grow.

Some decks omit the older woman.  The Aquarian deck & the Robin
Wood deck are examples.  This imagery is slightly different.
The implications are of dualities that must be united, opposites
that must be reconciled... or that you must choose between.  The
Norse tarot deck makes it more explicit:  Odin's wife chooses
between her husband & a magical necklace.

---
c j silverio	cj@sgi.com	ceej@well.sf.ca.us
From: saucc00@DMI.USherb.CA (Dudy)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: Astrology
Keywords: astrology
Date: 22 Nov 92 18:04:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Universite de Sherbrooke departement Math-Info

Quoted from ernesto@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Teodoro E. Gelabert):
>
>   I have yet to see any postings on astrology (don't get me wrong - I
>love tarot too, read them myself).  I was just wondering if there is
>another group for astrology are what?
>   Just wondering. 

Yep! Try alt.astrology!

>   Teddy

-- 
"Il y aura alors une grande detresse, telle qu'il n'y en a pas eu
depuis le commencement du monde jusqu'a ce jour..."
						   (Matt. XXIV, 21)