HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght)
Subject: Re: golf shoes
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 15:18:01 GMT

skulldoc@carson.u.washington.edu (Gregory Faulkner) writes:

>"James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:

>>>DATE:   Mon, 21 Dec 92 15:27:49 GMT
>>>FROM:   John Vander Borght <john@sequent.com>
>>>
>>>"James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>The USGA did a study and has recommende spikeless shoes as being better for
>>>the greens.  My club has asked us to wear them.  The ones they recommend
>>>are made by Footjoy and the soles look a lot like my Rockports with a
>>>little larger ridges going across them.  We have an 18 hole putting course
>>>where they don't allow spikes at all.

>>Glad to hear this.  Like I said, it was probably my imagination because 
>>it didn't seem logical.  I think my opinion was formed watching some 
>>pretty clumsy-footed people doing a number around the hole, twisting their
>>feet, etc.  Come to think of it, they'd have really dug a crater with 
>>spikes!  My comments on spikeless should not have even been made at all 
>>because I've never worn a pair. I was just passing on comments from 
>>those who have.


>Interesting, but from what I remember of the whole spiked vs. spikeless debate 
>of several years ago, the opposite conclusion was arrived at - that is, that
>spikeless shoes do more damage than spiked.  The reasoning was that instead
>of poking little holes in the turf, aerating it, like spiked shoes do, the 
>spikeless beasts simply compacted whatever was underneath, damaging the turf,
>especially the greens.

The new spikeless shoes from Footjoy etc are different than the old ones.
These are more like a rubber street sole shoe with a set of very small ridges 
running roughly perpendicular to the toe-heel line.

>Aside from that, I find that spiked shoes are much more effective than 
>spikeless, and I've tried them both.  I just didn't get the traction I
>wanted from spikeless (or from tennis shoes.)  Besides, IMHO, if spikeless
>shoes were a great revolution in the game, why don't the pros use 'em?

A friend of mine who is a big person/swinger/hitter wore them all summer at
our course and said that they worked fine in the dry weather.  He said he
didn't slip all summer.  But, he did go back to spiked shoes in the winter.

As to why the pros don't wear them, I would assume that they don't give
quite as good traction and they will wear whatever is best for them.  Also,
probably Footjoy hasn't been willing to pay enough to get them to put them
on.

I'll try to get a copy of the article on spikeless shoes the next time I'm
at the club and post it.

John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com

-- 
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!"
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: jimh@sequent.com (Jim Harrie)
Subject: Re: John Daly
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 20:30:10 GMT

In article <1hvj4hINN873@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>He doesn't even hit the ball all that long.
>
Actually, he just barely beat out Jim Dent from the Senior PGA for
long ball honors. I prefer to watch Jim. He's got better manners. 
>290 isn't Godzilla.
>
>353 is.
>
>				--Blair
>				  "Read this post aloud, but make
>				   sure the words don't match the
>				   movement of your lips."


-- 
 Jim Harrie (jimh@sequent.com) World Wide Technical Support 
 Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. (503) 578-5778
From: sullivan@manitoba.aruba.UUCP (Jim Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Looking for club buying tips
Date: 22 Dec 92 02:49:48 GMT

In article <tom.724734334@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu>, tom@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Tom McCain) writes:
|> jeffrey@iti.gov.sg (Jeffrey Goh (Sch-NS KSL)) writes:
|> 
|> : >This is pretty much true.  However, they are progressive perimeter
|> : >weighted clubs.  There are also irons that are more of a cross between
|> : >a bladed iron and a cavity back iron.  Hogan Edge and Powerbilt TPS
|> : >Advanced come to mind.

Hi. I play with Hogan Edge GS clubs.

The forged cavity-backed clubs allow a single set of clubs to provide the
best features of both the forged club and the perimeter-weighted cast club.

Some background: There are two ways to make clubs: 1) By forging (hammering)
the clubhead out of a carbon-steel alloy block, or 2) by pouring molten iron
into a mold.  Traditional "blades" were always created using the forged method.
The Carbon-steel alloy used in forged clubs is about 25% softer than cast clubs'
stainless steel, resulting in A) better feel in the forged club when hitting
shots and B) gripping the ball a bit better, producing more backspin. 

Up until a few years ago, attempts to make perimeter-weighted forged clubs had
been unsuccessful, because the softer metal wasn't strong enough to be thin
in the hitting area, whereas cast iron had the necessary strength.  Recent
advances in forged metals have enabled Hogan, MacGregor, Cobra, and others
to forge clubs using perimeter-weighted design, giving the feel advanced players
desired, while offering forgiveness on off-center hits.  So, forged perimeter-
weighted clubs *are* better in terms of touch, but not more forgiving than
cast-iron clubs.

I used to love the way my Pings (Cast) forgave off center hits, but hated the
short iron "touch" I had with the set.  As a remedy, I bought a set of Wilson
Staff Tour Blades (Forged), and carried a mixed set: 2-5 Ping, 6-SW Staffs.
The Staffs have a sweet spot the size of a Quarter, so they don't forgive
anything in the long irons.  The Short Irons had great feel, and my problems
were solved.  That is, until I thought I was good enough to hit the Staff
2-5, and gave my Pings to my father.  For the years I played in college, this
was great, but once I was trying to play once a week, I was dead.  So,
I bought the Hogan Edges, and love them.  The Edge is kind of heavy, so check
out other clubs. I particularly like the new Nicklaus MacGregor Forged cavity-
backed clubs.  They look like a blade, and hit really nicely, without weighing
too much.

Among the cast iron clubs, my favorite is the Wilson Ultra System 45. These
things have a nice feel, and are forgiving. Try them out, too.

Good Luck

-- 
Jim Sullivan				E-Mail:  sullivan@opl.com
From: jdd@duke.cs.duke.edu (John Dengler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Advice on Hooked Driver
Summary: Don't waste your money.  Fix your swing.
Date: 22 Dec 92 17:59:50 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <1992Dec21.185937.988@wdl.loral.com>, bll@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Brad Loney) writes:
> Does anyone have any experience on using hooked drivers.  I'm trying to get
> rid of my life long slice with my driver.
> 
> Does the Hooked driver work ?  What degree hook and loft do you have ?
> Are they legal ?
> 
> I've been looking at the Golfworks "Straight Shooter" club.
> 
> Comments are appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in advance...

Buying a hooked driver would be a complete waste of money, in my
opinion.  A slicing golf ball does not always mean that the club face
is open at impact.  It could simply mean that you are cutting across
the ball (outside to inside swing) so badly that slice spin is imparted
on the ball.  Believe me, I've sliced many balls where my divot pointed
extremely LEFT of the target, rather than to the right of the target.  A
hooked driver would not necessarily help you on a shot like this.  It
would probably produce even stranger results.

Also, suppose your slice is a result of an open clubface at impact.
Then, the hooked driver would indeed help to straighten out the shot.
How would this help your bad swing habits, though?  You would carry them
around forever, and your swing would get no better.  Your slice would
eventually creep into all parts of your game (irons, wedge play,
etc.) because you wouldn't be trying to fix it, you'd be relying on a
hooked club.  

Study your swing a bit more.  Then, if need be, consult a pro.  Don't
buy the hooked driver.

-- 
John Dengler, Computer Science Dept., Duke University, Durham, NC 27706 USA
ARPA:	jdd@cs.duke.edu
CSNET:	jdd@duke
UUCP:	decvax!duke!jdd
From: davet@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Dave Tutelman)
Subject: Re: Regarding A Question About Spin
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs - Lincroft, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 14:43:23 GMT

From unknown article by unknown author (attribution was not included):
>>I'm looking for an article or book on the physics of golf.  In particular I'd
>>like to understand how spin works to make a ball hit to the right curve back
>>to the left to hit on the fairway.  It seems to me that (looking down from
>>above) that a right hander hitting to the right will put clockwise spin on
>>the ball that that would make it curve to the right.  ????
>>
>>thanks, 
>>Judy

In article <1993Jan1.084401.16100@cbnewse.cb.att.com> green@cbnewse.cb.att.com (david.bruce.green) replies:
>... [ some correct stuff deleted ] ...
>
>By the way, I only know of a physics book about baseball.

Rest assured that such a book exists, though I don't recall its title
or author.  Something like "Mechanics of Golf", but I'm not sure.
It's a hardcover that you're not likely to find at your
favorite pro shop.  I found it in the golf section of a pretty well
equipped public library some years ago.

Anyway, the major principles I got out of it were:

 - When the clubhead strikes the ball:
    + The ball travels in the direction the clubhead is moving.
    + The ball spins in the direction the clubhead is open or closed to
      the line it is traveling.
   Draw a few free-body diagrams of the moment of impact, and you'll have
   no trouble understanding and believing this.  (Originally, I had typed
   this as "at the moment of impact"; but too much is going on at the moment
   of impact for me to stop and draw diagrams.  :-)

 - This is strictly true only for fairly small angles between the normal to
   the clubface and the head's direction of travel, say 10-20 degrees.  For
   larger angles, there is slippage between the ball and the clubface, and
   the direction of travel (as well as the spin) is affected by the angle
   of the clubface to the clubhead's direction of travel.

Most of this follows from Freshman Physics, and isn't much more difficult
than the homework from that course.

Dave Tutelman
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: mdb@netcom.com (Mark Bisgeier)
Subject: Re: Golf Etiquette Part 1/5
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 02:31:22 GMT

Lookin' forward to the rest of your exegesis... It seems that
much of etiquette really comes down to common sense; there really
is very little that is merely ceremonial about it, no?

-- 

Mark Bisgeier              mdb@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: Regripping clubs - need advice
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:39:27 GMT

In article <21DEC199212461445@reg.triumf.ca> brash@reg.triumf.ca (BRASH, ED) writes:

>>	- I have large hands (an XL Foot-Joy golf glove is snug on me)
>>	  and I sometimes feel that there's "not enough meat" on my
>>	  current grips to fit my hands. Should I ask the shop to put
>>	  oversized grips on when I get the clubs regripped?

>What they acutally do is put a number of layers of grip tape on the
>shaft of the club, hence making the overall circumference after the 
>grip is put on larger.  

Actually, you can get true jumbo grips these days, although it does
cut the variety down a bit.

I was told by a guru that the current standard grip sizes are the 
same as they were in the '20s (equivalent sizes, that is; they didn't
have slip-ons back then).  People have gotten a lot taller and more
big-boned this century, so it's reasonable that even the average person
might find the "average" grip small.
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: kim@guppy.uucp (Isaac Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: golf shoes
Date: 25 Dec 1992 09:17:56 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: guppy.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Dec25.035936.5771@netcom.com> mdb@netcom.com (Mark Bisgeier) writes:
>kim@guppy.uucp (Isaac Kim) writes:
>
>
>>...that in many cases golf shoes allow you to transfer your weight back 
>>past the inside of your left foot (if you golf right-handed) at the 
>>top of your backswing - resulting in too much sway...
>
>On the backswing,
>keeping your weight on the left foot (even the inside) sounds to
>me like a prescription for a reverse pivot - you won't get any
>sway if the weight is braced against the inside of the RIGHT foot...
>-- 
>
>Mark Bisgeier              mdb@netcom.com

Mark, you are completely correct.  I guess I have been watching Phil
Mickelson's golf video a little too much these days.

Please let me correct my statement:

...that in many cases golf shoes allow you to transfer your weight back 
past the inside of your RIGHT foot (if you golf right-handed) at the 
top of your backswing - resulting in too much sway...

Isaac (kim@bull.ucsd.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: nelson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Nelson)
Subject: Re: John Daly
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:37:36 GMT

In article <2934859108.2.p00168@psilink.com> "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:
>>  greg <greg@redeye.EBay.Sun.COM>
>>
>>Just wondering what fellow golfers think of Daly addmitting
>>that he has a drinking problem.  I think it shows great 
>>courage on his part.  He pulled himself from the PGA.
>
...
>
>Tough when you're half in the bag, too.  8^)
>
>>
>asshole even more than before.  Not only can he hit the ball long, but 
>he doesn't take any shit from his wife, either.  "You the MAN!"
>
>Sorry, Greg. Not flamin' you, honest. 8^)  Daly has gotten on my nerves 
>from square one.  The more I see, the less I like him.  And now this.
>  ,...,.,,
> /666;    ',    jim tims
>////;    _~ -   p00168@psilink.com
>(/@/----0-~-0
> ;'  . `` ~ \'
>  , `    ' , >
>;;|\..((   -C---->>John Daly is an abrasive troglodyte.  IMO, his latest caper 
>;;| >-  `.__),;;   is characteristic of his nasty personality, not the booze.
>

But he does play fast! 
8^)

Mike N.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: New USGA Handicapping
Organization: Semper Excelsior
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:12:17 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>   John Vander Borght <john@sequent.com>
>
[...]
>
>The reason is that it is easier for people to understand.  All you have to
>do is look at your card and lower everything to your maximum number without
>worrying about what par was, or how many of them you had in the round.
>
>John Vander Borght
>john@sequent.com

  ,...,.,,
 /666;    ',    jim tims
////;    _~ -   p00168@psilink.com
(/@/----0-~-0
 ;'  . `` ~ \'
  , `    ' , >
;;|\..((   -C---->> People have really gotten stupid, haven't they? Pitiable.
;;| >-  `.__),;;

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: pav@masc.rice.edu (Phuong Vu)
Subject: opinion on MacGregor iron needed
Organization: Dept. of Math. Sciences, Rice University
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 06:15:32 GMT

Can anyone who have played with the MacGregor Reverse Draft (?) set 
of iron on graphite shaft give me a quick overview of what you think
of these clubs ?  I only get to hit with them in the cage at at store
this afternoon and they feel very nice to me.  Also what would be a 
good price on such a set (3-PW).

Thanks in advance.

A beginner.
From: David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com (David Moore)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
From: dmm14@po.CWRU.Edu (David M. Modic)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Driver Advice
Date: 23 Dec 1992 04:15:01 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


	I'm a salesperson at Sam's World of Golf in Cleveland, OH.
	I think the Big Bertha is not all it's cracked up to be.  It's
	way overpriced and it's an old man's club.  I would prefer
	the original Taylor-Made Tour Driver because traditional 
	metal-woods have a better swing weight and thus provides more
	power throughout the swing.  However, if you must choose between
	the two that you mentioned, I would recommend the Taylor
	Midsize.  It provides a more traditional feel than the Bertha.
	In my experience with the Bertha, the ball trajectory off the 
	clubface is nearly twice as high as off of the Taylor.  All 
	in all, the Bertha is just a load of shit and far too mythical.
-- 
"He has a right to say *hit...it ain't against God..."

--from ALIEN^3
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: golf shoes
Organization: Semper Excelsior
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:45:34 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   Mon, 21 Dec 92 15:27:49 GMT
>FROM:   John Vander Borght <john@sequent.com>
>
>"James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:
>
>>Nikes, Reebock, and so forth are all new territory for me.  I tried one 
>>of the track-shoe styles a few years ago -- HATED THEM.  Bass sucks.  
>>Florsheim sucks.  Just IMHO.
>
>Reebok makes a good all leather shoe.  I bought a pair this summer and they
>were real comfortable.
>
>
>Maybe it's just me, but I've never had a pair of shoes that lasted more
>than 6 months.  The waterproofing has never lasted more than 3 or 4, no
>mater how I try to take care of them.  I have a pretty strong shift to my
>left side and seem to blow out the left side of the stiching.

My shoes don't last a long time, either.  Ever try the slip-on spiked 
galoshes?  They last about 5 rounds if you don't break a leg first.  
I never wear my course shoes at the driving range, even going so far as 
to warm up with one pair and play in another.  I buy a new pair every year, 
and usually have 2 pairs of course shoes (One for "work" , one for 
everyday play 8^) and 1 for the range.  (And two rotting in the garage.)
I go through one set of spikes, change the spikes and retire the shoes 
to the range.  I usually change the spikes on my "good pair" in September,
right before the year-end events.  By the time these spikes go, the 
shoes are history.

>
>>the feet "squirming" during the swing.  As for the non-spike styles, 
>>they're ok for dry courses, but I still don't like them because they 
>>seem to tear up the greens worse than spikes.  This could just be my 
>>imagination, however.  They are not nearly as stable as spikes, either.
>
>The USGA did a study and has recommende spikeless shoes as being better for
>the greens.  My club has asked us to wear them.  The ones they recommend
>are made by Footjoy and the soles look a lot like my Rockports with a
>little larger ridges going across them.  We have an 18 hole putting course
>where they don't allow spikes at all.

Glad to hear this.  Like I said, it was probably my imagination because 
it didn't seem logical.  I think my opinion was formed watching some 
pretty clumsy-footed people doing a number around the hole, twisting their
feet, etc.  Come to think of it, they'd have really dug a crater with 
spikes!  My comments on spikeless should not have even been made at all 
because I've never worn a pair. I was just passing on comments from 
those who have.

>
>John Vander Borght
>john@sequent.com
>-- 
  ,...,.,,
 /666;    ',    jim tims
////;    _~ -   p00168@psilink.com
(/@/----0-~-0
 ;'  . `` ~ \'
  , `    ' , >
;;|\..((   -C---->>  Wow.  That last 69 did me in.  I'm down to a 3.
;;| >-  `.__),;;     Last I checked I was a 5.  This could be expensive.
From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: golf shoes
Organization: Semper Excelsior
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 08:52:03 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   25 Dec 92 03:59:36 GMT
>FROM:   Mark Bisgeier <mdb@netcom.com>
>
>kim@guppy.uucp (Isaac Kim) writes:
>
>>...that in many cases golf shoes allow you to transfer your weight back 
>>past the inside of your left foot (if you golf right-handed) at the 
>>top of your backswing - resulting in too much sway...
>
>On the backswing,
>keeping your weight on the left foot (even the inside) sounds to
>me like a prescription for a reverse pivot - you won't get any
>sway if the weight is braced against the inside of the RIGHT foot...
>-- 
>
>Mark Bisgeier              mdb@netcom.com

  ,...,.,,
 /666;    ',    jim tims
////;    _~ -   p00168@psilink.com
(/@/----0-~-0
 ;'  . `` ~ \'
  , `    ' , >
;;|\..((   -C---->> Absolutely correct. 
;;| >-  `.__),;;

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: elliott@sc.harris.com (Elliott V. Clemmons)
Subject: Wanted: Ping Zing clone clubheads.
Organization: Harris Electronic Design Automation
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:57:51 GMT

Fellow Clubmakers,

I'm looking to purchase a set of Ping Zing clone club heads.

Does anyone have any info on where I can pick up a set from.
Any opinions on the different makes, models and vendors 
would be greatly appreciated too.

You can respond via email.

Thanks,

elliott c.

______________________________________________________________________________
Elliott V. Clemmons   \\  INTERNET : elliott@sc.harris.com         |  _   _  |
Harris EDA             \\     UUCP : ...!uupsi!rama!elliott        | | |_| | |
Systems Support Group   \\  CCMAIL : n/a			   |_/\/\/\|_|
7796 Victor-Mendon Rd.   \\  VOICE : 716.924.9303		   | |_| |_| |
Fishers, New York 14453   \\   FAX : 716.924.4729		   |_________|
From: jeffr@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Jeff Retallic)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:02:23 GMT
Subject: They're all 2's.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, CCSY Messaging Centre, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf

Here's a conundrum that's been troubling me for some weeks now - but I am
easily troubled.

A while ago a friend and I were hitting balls down at the local practice area.
My practice balls are marked with a lower-case 'j'; Ian's are marked with a
triangle with a dot inside.  After we had hit a few balls, two other guys
arrived and started hitting balls right next to us and in the same direction.
Concerned that our balls might take some sorting out I asked one of these 
chaps if their balls were marked.
"No" he said "but they are all 2's".

Therein lies my problem.  Why would they only practice with 2's?  Did they 
perhaps only ever buy 2's?  Is the number on the ball more relevant than the
make and type?  Were 2's unlucky so that they only used them for practice?
Perhaps they could get a special deal on 2's?  I'd be interested to hear any
theories as to why this might be.

Thank you for your time,

jeff r
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf