HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:19:09 GMT

seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:

>	Well, perhaps I'm unusual, but I put myself in the agnostic camp. I
>say that at the moment the evidence I see would weigh more towards the 
>conclusion that there is no "God", but any contrary evidence is welcome.

  have you thought about what kind of evidence you would need to believe 
that god does exist?  if so, what do you require?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Or Shakespeare either (was: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 18:11:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.165814.697@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker) writes:

>I first remember hearing Imagine in the movie The Killing Fields, and I
>assumed at the time that it was meant to be a song embodying the Khmer Rouge
>philosophy.

Hard to see how "Nothing to kill or die for" fits with the Khmer Rouge.


--Mike





-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Of the many definitions of poetry, the   
mnemonic@eff.org | simplest is still the best: 'memorable speech.'" 
(617) 864-0665   | 
EFF, Cambridge   |                     --W.H. Auden 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,news.answers
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Asimov and the Decay of SF
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:52:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.172214.4703@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.
edu (Francis Muir) writes:

   >I suspect your suspicion is correct, and it is a dismal thought.

  I suspect you are babbling randomly. Is this a dismal thought? By no
means!

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: sdr57@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Mandatory negatives (was Re: Agnostics and Athiests)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:09:00 GMT

In article <7540@public.BTR.COM> grady@btr.BTR.COM (Grady Ward  grady@btr.com) writes:
>
>What breaks the symmetry between "believing in God"
>versus "not believing in God," is that contrary to
>both sides needing equal bodies of evidence to support
>their claim, the side making the *assertion* needs to
>support it while the denier of that assertion need
>only laugh.
>
>
>--
>Views expressed are not those of the National Security Agency

Er...laughing disproves an assertion?

Ha, Ha, Ha.

(In the context of this thread, I would point out that atheism
requires at least as much faith as any theism - the atheist
must believe in the *nonexistence* of a deity - and that any
religion which argues for the existence of free will in choosing
to believe - accept good or embrace evil - however you put it -
will tell you that the existence of the deity can *not* be independently
demonstrated, since that would remove freedom from that choice. You
either have faith or you don't. In other words, if your *assertion* is
that God does *not* exist, where is your proof? And will you consider
it an adequate and complete disproof of that assertion if I laugh at
you for making it?)

******************************************************************************
Rogue academic. They're dangerous when they go feral, academics are.

My organization hasn't agreed with any of my opinions so far, and
I doubt they'll start now.

Stanley "Ya nee speon" Roberts
From: emzx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Sinclair's _The Jungle_ + More
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:26:25 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1992Jul21.164638.17582@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu>,
(jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu) writes: 
> In article <1992Jul20.121313.9659@linus.mitre.org>, jartz@bassoon.mitre.org (John Artz) writes:
>> 
>> 
>> I read The Jungle in college and thought it was the most powerful novel
>> I had ever read (and still do).  I didn't think socialism was the answer, but
>> I definately felt that labor unions were, after reading the book.  Now I have
>> to wonder whether or not I was just dupped by some slick propaganda.
>> I can see how my emotions were being manipulated, but that was because
>> I thought that the story was at least plausible, if not based on actual case
>> studies.  Was the whole story just an improbable fabrication ??
>> 

I had the torture of reading Sinclair's "The Jungle" in high school - which
seems so far back now, but never mind that - and boy, was it a funny book. 
Yes, this book is absolutely black humor material, especially when the baby
drowns in a 6-foot puddle(does this bring back memories or what?).

That book was absolutely silly in its overrealistic views.  It was such a
loaded book I don't know how anyone in their right minds could be affected by
it.

Propaganda is correct, my friend.  That's all "The Jungle" was.  I can't
believe Sinclair won a Pulitzer - I hope he wrote better in news than in novel.
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Start strong, end strong, and look for opportunities in the middle."
                              -S. O'Nan

Sung J. Woo, Secretary of The International Gridlocker Society

emzx@CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.philosophy.meta
From: vargish@sura.net (Nick Vargish)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: SURAnet, College Park, MD, USA, NA, Earth, Milky Way
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:07:28 GMT

~WISP at CU~ writes:

>Let's not forget the Apatheists.  We don't know and we don't really
>care.

Rosalie J Casey writes:

>Please can I join?

This one shows too much initiative.


Nick "secular hedonist" Vargish
-- 
|  Nick Vargish       | "I'm just another wide area network packet-herder..." |
|  SURAnet Operations +-------------------------------------------------------+
|  vargish@sura.net   | "SURAnet  and I do  not have a  relationship based on |
|  h: 301 474-1863    | mutually-shared ideologies.  Don't assume otherwise." |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Spoilers - continuing discussion, part 2
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:45:54 GMT


gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere) writes:

> I *did* find _The French Lieutenant's Woman_ intensely annoying when
> the book itself used this reality-switching technique, however. Texts
> ought to keep their places.

I do not share Susan's view.  THE FRENCH LIEUTENANT'S WOMAN was one of
the first books that I read, when I decided to start reading again.
Consequently, I had few expectations about how a text ought to behave.
I rather like texts that get out of line.


Mark

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re:  Great last sentences
From: liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood)
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:52:35 GMT+12
 <1992Jul21.180452.27718@credence.com> <54690@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> <1992Jul22.173253.3972@csusac.csus.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: It's Home, really...

Also a SF story, not great but...

    Instead he clutched fiercely at her hand, knowing with an unexpected and
    overpowering burst of sorrow that this was

Another SF ending I can remember...

    `Silly asses', he muttered.

No titles or authors, no spoilers :-)

--
 Liam Greenwood ------ liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz ------ Wanganui, N.Z.
                Don't tell my Mother I'm a programmer,
              she thinks I'm a piano player in a brothel
From: ghouse@gauss.cs.jhu.edu (Mujtaba Ghouse)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Ahasuerus
Summary: DLS knew of both Ahasuerus'
Keywords: Dorothy L. Sayers, Wimsy, Persian king, Wandering Jew, cat
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:50:55 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD

re: Dorothy L. Sayers `Busman's Honeymoon', in which the cat of the
Dowager Duchess of Denver (Peter Wimsy's mother) is named Ahasuerus.

I seem to remember one of the previous posters claiming that the
cat was named after the `Wandering Jew', and another claiming that
as she was very high church, DLS probably didn't know of the other
Ahasuerus mentioned in the bible: a king of Persia, who is mentioned
in the old testament.

I was reading `Busman's Honeymoon' last night (pure joy), and at the
end of the book, while the newlyweds are visitng Peter's mother, she
mentions Ahasuerus the Persian: "... like poor Agag - not in the Bible,
of course, but the one before Ahasuerus, he was a blue Persian..."

and I can't help thinking that her cat might well have been Persian, too
(what else would a Duchess's cat be?) so not only was DLS familiar with
the Old Testament Ahasuerus, but IMHO the cat is more likely to have been
named after him than the other.

Ah! such discoveries are what make life worth living...

-Mujtaba Ghouse
"Somewhere else, the tea is getting cold."
From: rachel@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us (Rachel M. Kadel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:40:26 GMT
Organization: Princeton High School, Princeton, New Jersey

tammy@ms-1.gvl.unisys.com (Tammy Draper) writes:

> 
>   Let's make things even more complicated.  I say we start referring to 
>   agnostics and atheists in a politically correct manner.  An atheist is 
>   now one who is 'deity deficient' and an agnostic is simply 'monotheisticall
>   challenged'.
> 
PCers would _never_ imply that lack of belief in God was a "deficiency."  
In fact, a PCer would never imply that lack of, oh, say, a _lung_ was a 
"deficiency."

Just my $.02.    (What ever happened to the cents symbol?)
                                             Rachel M. Kadel
> 
>   Tammy
> 
>   ObDefinition:  I was told (by rec.humor, I think) that an atheist doesn't 
> 		 believe in any God and an agnostic is just a chicken-shit 
> 		 atheist.  
> 
> *****************************************************************************
> *  Yes, I work for Unisys Defense.  I am currently defending my chocolate.   
> *****************************************************************************


There's an infinite number of monkeys at the door wanting to show us the 
script to Hamlet they've worked out...The school won't even LISTEN to me 
, much less let me speak for it...rachel@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Etymology (Re: Agnostics and Athiests)
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:01:41 GMT

In article <10726446.103.712293005@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au> 10726446@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (LAU WAI KUEN) writes:

>   Athiest literally means 'no god' doesn't it?  So an athiest is someone 
>who hasn't a god to worship to; whatever the reason.  So what does that make 
>an agnostic; someone who has 'no gnos'?

Well, "a theos" is not "no god" but "without god."  This would include both 
those who actively disbelieve in the existence of God and those of such 
profound faith that they can state without realizing how ironic their situation
is that they *KNOW* there is no God.

"A gnosis" is "without knowledge."  In other words, agnostics haven't got a
clue:*) -- more seriously, an agnostic is one who doesn't feel there's any
compelling evidence either way, and no compelling reason to make a leap of
faith in either direction.  Dante described these people as those who blow
neither hot nor cold.


>   Don't tell me- my dog has no gnos. How does he smell?

He doesn't smell; you smell.  He stinks.

(grace a Saml Johnson)



		He's got a mask that's black and white
		  Mine's just black but that's all right
		In silence and cunning he plies his trade
		  I ply mine in silence and shade
		[. . .]
		In the heart of the city it's murder time
		  It ain't no crime to kill a mime
			-- "Killing a Mime" by Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:57:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.132513.29828@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes:
>
>But do atheists _go_ anywhere when they die?

Asimov himself wrote that he'd prefer nothingness, as he doesn't consider the
standard image of 'heaven' to be appropriate for any rational man...

-- 
"What? Over? Did you say it's over? Nothing's over, till we decide it is! 
 Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!" --John Belushi
hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu             _V_a_l_h_a_l_l_a BBS, 217-352-3682, WWIV4.21, 14.4k
From: ct@castle.ed.ac.uk (C Thornborrow)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: A short story competition
Summary: details of a competition to write an Arthurian story
Keywords: camelot, competition, prizes
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:01:05 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University


		    -----------------------
		ooO THE CAMELOT COMPETITION Ooo
		    -----------------------

Competition :
-------------

The competition is to write an original story using Arthurian characters
or setting. The story can be of any length but must be original work by
the author or authors. Stories may be set in any time and use as many or
as few of the characters, symbols and places as required.

Prizes :
---------

Two prizes will be awarded. First prize
will be a hand painted picture of Morgan Le Fey on varnished wood,
painted by an Edinburgh artist - Mark Oxbrow. Second prize will be a
copy of the book : The Grail Seekers Companion by Marion Green and John
Matthews. 

Judging :
---------

Judging will be done by Chris Thornborrow (with some help from his
nearest and dearest). Stories will be judged on the following :
* Use and adaptation of Arthurian characters
* Originality
* Retaining the flavour of Arthurian Legend
* Story and character development

There will be judgement on the basis of spelling or punctuation or
English style, but too many errors might naturally bias the judging.

Entries:
-------
Entries may be submitted by e-mail or by ordinary mail. In either case,
all entries must be accompanied by the full name of the entrant, his/her
e-mail addrees and his/her ordinary mail address (for posting of
prizes).

All entries should arrive not later than August 14th 1992. 

Addresses for Submissions :
---------------------------

Send entries to ct@castle.ed.ac.uk
	     or Chris Thornborrow,
		6 Colinton Rd.,
		Edinburgh,
		East Lothian 
		Scotland

Rules:
------

* An entry must be accompanied by the following details :
	Full name
	E-mail address
	Mail address for posting of prizes

* All entries may, at the discretion of the list co-ordinator, be sent
to the Camelot mailing list after the closing date of the competition.

* The winning entry and the runner up will be posted to the Camelot
mailing list.

* Entries may be submitted via electronic mail to the address :
	ct@castle.ed.ac.uk
  or via normal post to the address :
	Chris Thornborrow, 6 Colinton Rd., Edinburgh, East Lothian
	Scotland.

* The judges decision will be final.

* Entries must arrive by August 14th 1992. No entry after this date will
be accepted, even if due to net delays.

* The winners will be announced through the Camelot mailing at a date
not greater than two weeks after the end date for submissions.

* The winners prizes will be posted to them no later than this time.

* HAVE FUN
From: un107375@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: W.Foulsham and Co.
Date: 31 Jul 92 13:01:59 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

I would like to have the address of W.Foulsham and Co, in New York if anyone
has it handy.

Thanks in advance,

Balu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: msante@ptdca0.intel.com (Mark Santesson)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: Portland Technology Development, Intel Corp., Aloha, OR
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 15:07:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.131119.7420@decvax.dec.com> kaehler@zk3.dec.com writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul24.075717.104265@zeus.calpoly.edu>, rcasey@zeus.calpoly.edu (Rosalie J Casey) writes:
>>
>>	If you had a bet to take, either for a god and go to 
>>'eternal bliss', or that there is no god and take your chances...
>>
>>where would your money be?
>>
>Hmm...  Maybe you are right, wouldn't hurt to take up a religion for
>a little "after life" insurance.  As good a reason as any.  Now, which
>religion is the best "after life" insurance policy.  So many to pick
>from...  Hindu, Moslem, Christian, Jewish...  Maybe all...
>

Definitely Moslem (at least for men), there you get to enjoy all the things
that Christianity would send you to hell for... or so the rumors say.
-- 
==============================================================================
Mark Santesson               Portland Technology Development, Intel Corp.
msante@ptdca0.intel.com      (503) 642-8355       I don't speak for intel
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Rashomon and Guildenstern Are Dead
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:41:56 GMT


It somehow seems appropriate that as this discussion dies down, an
article on the subject appears in The New York Times Book Review.

In the July 19th edition, there is a review of:


        H.
        The Story Of Heathcliff's Journey
        Back To Wuthering Heights

        By Lin Haire-Sargeant
        292 pp. New York: Pocket Books. $20.

The story is told in a long letter to Cathy, written by Heathcliff.  It
tells the story of the three years that he spent away from Wuthering Heights.

The article contains some spoilers about who he meets during this three
year period (I'll not give it away, but will say that he meets other
literary characters).

The Times did not give it a favorable review.


Mark


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: RHORER@UKCC.UKY.EDU (Marc A. Rhorer)
Subject: WANTED: SHAKER titles...
Organization: University of Kentucky
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:32:50 GMT

I am looking for the following out-of-print SHAKER titles:
 
Henri Desroche, THE AMERICAN SHAKERS
Elmer Pearson & Julia Neal, THE SHAKER IMAGE
J.P. MacLean, SHAKERS OF OHIO
Richard MacNemar, THE KENTUCKY REVIVAL
 
Please send me personal Email if you know where to locate any of these, or
have other Shaker titles you wish to discuss.  Thanks!
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc A. Rhorer              |       Email: rhorer@ukcc.uky.edu
College of Communications   |      Bitnet: rhorer@ukcc
University of Kentucky      |         FAX: 606-257-7818
Lexington, KY 40506-0042    |       Phone: 606-257-4839
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Robertson Davies
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:04:19 GMT

In article <84742@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:

>The woman is a stunning and brilliant university student who is
>sought after and lusted over by (surprise, surprise) middle-aged
>men who, I think, were on the faculty.  Lo and behold, she ends
>up falling for one of the more fatuous of them.

I feel compelled to jump in here and assert that such women, surprising 
though it is to me every time I think about it, actually do exist, and in
higher numbers than you'd think.

In any case, give Davies another chance: try FIFTH BUSINESS.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Crime is contagious. If the Government becomes a law-
mnemonic@eff.org | breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every
(617) 864-0665   | man to become a law unto himself. It invites anarchy."
EFF, Cambridge   |         --Brandeis, J., dissenting in Olmstead v. U.S.  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,news.answers
From: harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper)
Subject: Escobar of Escobar Hall
Summary: Ingenious Mr. Escobar!
Organization: ORA Corporation
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:59:46 GMT

This in today's paper:

	Bogota, Colombia (AP) -- Drug boss Pablo Escobar likely
	disguised himself as a woman and promised soldiers huge sums of
	money when he escaped from prison last week, according to an
	army report.

I'll bet he was disguised as a washerwoman.
-- 
Douglas Harper     | ORA Corporation | 301A Dates Drive | Ithaca, NY 14850 
harper@oracorp.com | (607) 277-2020  | FAX: 277-3206    | USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: william@syacus.acus.oz.au (William Mason)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 02:09:36 GMT

Well 9 out of 10 Gods surveyed, dispute the existence of athiests.
Further, 76%; chose to decry the practice of agnostisism.  To quote
one respondent.  "It is hard enough being omnipotent, without the 
need to go about being manifest as well."  

Well ... as we in the survey biz like to say it, "Gods speak in mysterious
ways."

brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:

>Most athiests and agnostics are the same.  They think there is no god,
>they admit it is possible but unlikely and that nobody knows for certain.
>There's no difference between them.
>-- 
>Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
-- 
_____ "Though the course may change, Rivers ~always~ reach the sea." lz _____
 _--_|\    William Mason                 ACSnet:    william@syacus.acus.OZ
/ ACUS \   Aust Ctr UNISYS S/w           Internet:  william@syacus.acus.OZ.AU
\_.--._/   Sydney, N.S.W,                Voice:     +61-2-390-1322
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Unspoken Words
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:30:54 GMT

kirk@cs.duke.edu (Scooter Corleone) writes:

> As a person who reads a lot, I find I have a large vocabulary of words
> that I have only read; I've never spoken them or heard them. As a result, I
> know what the words mean, but I don't always know how to pronounce them.
> Since I've been reading a lot of Faulkner lately, I've made considerable
> additions to this vocabulary of unspoken words.

> Here's an example: miasma. It's not a word you'd usually drop into
> day-to-day speech. I was discussing this word in the context of unspoken
> words with a friend recently, and we disagreed about how the word should be
> pronounced: He suggested "my-asthma", while I preferred "my-ass-ma". (Both
> pronunciations are useful when you're reading Faulkner.)

> I was wondering if other readers had noticed this unspoken words phenomenon.

This came up last fall, with a number of people talking about the word
"misled" -- which does not rhyme with "fizzled."

"Mimesis" is a word that I found troublesome.  At an earlier age, I had
difficulty with "Banal."

There are lots of words which have multiple accepted pronunciations.
"Miasma" is one (with the "Mi" pronounced as "My" or "Me").  Another
is "Flaccid" where the "flassid" pronunciation is common, but the
"flacksid" pronunciation ('cc' as in access, accept, accident, etc.)
was once considered the "correct" one.  Since I pronounce it with a
hard 'c', I often get strange looks.  Therefore, I don't use the word
very often.  Fortunately, I don't have to.

When I was in grad school, there was a 12-year-old in one of th classes
I was taking.  He used to come up to my office after class to talk.  On
one occasion, he pronounced "Euclidean" as "YOU-sill-id-ian."  When I
corrected him, he thanked me & said "I've never heard it pronounced before."

Mark



Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13578 talk.religion.misc:13147 sci.skeptic:13479