HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mist@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Paul Timmins)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: ritual in lucid dreams
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:26:45 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA

In article <15672.2b6596e7@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>Hello,
>
>Let's get this straight:  you can visualize geometric shapes with four
>spatial dimensions.  *Not* just their projections in 3D space, but all
>four dimensions at once.  Please, if you can, tell us how you do this,
>and how one can train ones inherently 3D mind to do this at will.
>Do these visions come in 'altered' states of consciousness, which are
>naturally much more slippery if one tries to describe them ??
>
>And let's all remember, from the 'empathic defenses' thread a few months
>ago -- the *visual* sense is just one out of five!  For many people,
>visualization may not be the best path - try audization, olfactorization,

   Well, as you said, its a slippery thing.. its mostly 3D
representations, but true 4d visualization is possible.. easiest with 4d
cubes. Its one of the various things a friend has been getting me to do.
Generally the actual comprehension of a tesseract is fleeting.. you
grasp it then you lose it. From a projection of 3, you work towards 4,
which you grasp very momentarily. Though there are some who claim to
'get' above 4d, but I personally havent. Its a matter of concentration
in all cases.
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Doping Mercury
Summary: just one more thing.....
Keywords: Doping Mercury
Date: 23 Jan 93 21:39:06 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


One more comment to add to my extended rant. I have been having a lot
of fun calculating things about that 5 grams of ionized mercury. To
add some perspective on how much energy we are talking about, about
200 MeV are released per atom in the fission of 235U. 1TeV=1 million
MeV. So each Hg ion would attain 50 billion times the energy released
per atom in uranium fission. Wow!
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
From: mccalld@vax.sonoma.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: poeticus to magus
Date: 28 Jan 93 15:32:00 GMT
Organization: Sonoma State University

a poetic verse from the magus of a previous aeon:

S.S.S.

My children can't you see
That my own destiny
Has denied death to me
Until I set you free.

You wear your chains so deep
mistake yourselves as sheep
And lay you down to sleep,
Prey me, your souls to keep.

You wallow in this state
And poison yourselves with hate
while I must watch and wait
I'm condemed to share your fate.

To thine ownselves untrue
failing in all you do
Afraid to start anew.

My children can't you see
That my own destiny
Has denied death to me
Until I set you free!

frater amino
From: derich@netcom.com (Scott A. Steinbrink)
Subject: Re: You prefer white or black magic?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:54:44 GMT

WOuld this guy stop posting duplicate posts?

Thenk yew.

- Scotty

-- 
Scott Allen Steinbrink
 
NetCom: Derich@netcom.com
America Online: Derichman
Bitnet: 11sstein%gallua.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu
From: cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Rituals and "frameworks" (was: ritual in lucid dreams)
Date: 24 Jan 93 17:52:12 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics

Hello,

nancyp@techbook.com (Nancy Parsons) writes...

> It is our great talent, as human beings, to enfold our world in a 
> "framework" of ideas, to understand it, predict what will happen,
> and to control (as much as we can) the outcome of events.  Yet 
> it seems to me that our great strength can be in some sense a 
> weakness when it comes to magick.  Our effort to understand magick
> can rob us of the ability to fully experience it.   [some deleted]
> As such ritual is very much a double-edged sword; we can become 
> so accustomed to dealing with the metaphor for the noumenon that
> ritual is that we lose sight of what that metaphor represents.  

Maybe that's why many systems leave open the possiblity (nay, perhaps
the inevitability) of 'revelatory' experiences -- the knowledge and
conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel, crossing the Abyss, etc. --
that shock one out of ones complacency, and force critical re-evaluations
of the symbols and applications one has grown accustomed to.

> I don't know how to deal with magick without a framework of some
> kind, at least not yet, but I wish I did. 

Hmmm, I think you'd have to go over to some of the Eastern practices,
such as zen, to eliminate the 'framework.'   Me, I like the richness of
symbols that the Western tradition has to offer, and I guess that many
years of being a stark, scientific atheist has a lot to do with not
losing sight of the 'metaphorical-ness' of it all!  :-)

> It seems to me, though, that when intention, personal or
> otherwise, gets into magick, that something is lost.  Dawn said
> earlier how she doesn't DO anything after casting the circle any 
> more.  I wonder, sometimes, whether it is so necessary to do anything.
> Maybe just being there is the thing.  

I like it.  All the talk of magical 'Will' gets tired after a while.
Magic(k) doesn't have to have 'real world' goals any more than religion
does.

Steve Cranmer
From: cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:36:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Doping Mercury
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: alt.magick

Lorenzo Farris writes:

>One more comment to add to my extended rant. I have been having a lot
>of fun calculating things about that 5 grams of ionized mercury. To
>add some perspective on how much energy we are talking about, about
>200 MeV are released per atom in the fission of 235U. 1TeV=1 million
>MeV. So each Hg ion would attain 50 billion times the energy released
>per atom in uranium fission. Wow!

I had hoped for a slightly more searching criticism of my idea than
the observation that if you take away 1 electron from every atom
in a litre of mercury you end up with the most highly charged object
in the universe.

Understanding why the elements differ in their precise physical and
chemical properties is extraordinarily complex, far more complex than one
might imagine given that the only important thing one changes from
one element to the next is the atomic number. It isn't at all obvious
why copper,  silver and gold have much higher melting points than the
adjacent zinc, cadmium and mercury. Or why the electrical and thermal 
conductivities are so different. And a host of other properties which vary
in a dramatic and non-continuous way as the charge in the nucleus changes 
from one element to the next. 

The key to it all is the electrons. The nucleii of the atoms form a regular
lattice through which flows a gas of electrons, and the properties of the
substance depend more on the properties of the lattice than on the
properties of the individual atoms. Manipulate the lattice at key points
by adding heavier or lighter nucleii, and the physical and chemical
properties change in a complex way. Even simple observables like the
electrical conductivity are complex quantum mechanical effects of a Fermi
gas of electrons diffracted by a lattice of nucleii. When you think about
solid matter you have to think holistically, and the whole is very different
from the sum of the parts.

I'll stick with my original assertion: it may be improbable that such a
thing remains to be discovered, but it is not out-and-out impossible that
the addition of a doping substance to mercury might produce a substance
which mimics *some* of the properties of gold, perhaps enough of the
properties to pass the tests goldsmiths have used for thousands of years.

Colin
From: markk@cypress.West.Sun.COM (Mark Allen Kampe)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: ritual in lucid dreams
Date: 27 Jan 1993 06:13:31 GMT
Organization: SunSoft South
Distribution: world
Reply-To: markk@cypress.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: sagredo.west.sun.com


>This is very interesting. Can anyone tell me how I would go about improving
>my ability to visualize real objects. When I try to visualize objects that I
>have recently seen or otherwise. My mind is is either empty of full of
>chaotic images. I would like to hear peoples responsies to this.

Methinks that the problem is not with visualization of objects but with
focused meditation.  Solve the latter and the former will take care of
itself (for the most part).

I find that it is easiest to start with fields of solid color - no figures
at all.  Then I work on enhancements/refinements to the color.  Once I have
the color down, I go to shapes of that color and then to objects.

As to the chaos problem ... I suggest that you aren't giving yourself
fully to the task at hand.  My father once told me that I had to decide
whether I wanted to be a Buddhist or a Magus.  Did I want to be "at one"
with the Universe (my mind) or did I want to "control it"?

If you want to control your mind, you must train it to your will.  Start
with a task that should be achievable, but cannot be achieved without
concentration.  The visualization is a good exercise.  Each time you 
discover an errant thread of consciousness, refocus it on the assigned
task.  With time and practice you will find that the straying happens
less frequently and that it is corrected more easily and with less
interruption.  Your success in visualization should improve in direct
proportion to your discipline.

When you can succeed at a simple visualization, move on to more complex 
ones - so that you can use more of your mind, while still retaining focus.

As others have suggested, the key here is dedication to the practice and
to the results of the practice.
From: tucker@maestro.mitre.org (William Tucker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: ritual in lucid dreams
Keywords: Re: ritual in lucid dreams
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:35:31 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, USA



You crisp@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Badvoc) wrote:

  This is very interesting. Can anyone tell me how I would go about improving
  my ability to visualize real objects. When I try to visualize objects that I
  have recently seen or otherwise. My mind is is either empty of full of
  chaotic images. I would like to hear peoples responsies to this.

  - Badvoc.


I tucker@maestro.mitre.org (William Tucker) think:

That the advice given by others to practice regularly is most valuable.
My advice would be similar, but with an added twist. People who have 
trouble visualizing sometimes have the problem because they haven't
closely examined what they are trying to visualize, they have a 
vague feeling of what the object looks like but they haven't really
noticed how the object looks. For example try drawing something from 
memory versus from a model. If you want to increase your visualization
abilities, increase your skills at observing objects. Pick up a pencil,
look at it examine the color of it, the color and grain of the eraser,
is the tip sharp or dull, is there a pattern to the wear on the tip,
who made the pencil, what color is the wood............and so on.



Wm T.

.standard disclaimer
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:49:23 GMT

mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

>          

>                             THE DIVINE MASTERS       
>      

>               UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this 
>          IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. 


>                                           Robert E. McElwaine
>                                           2nd Initiate in Eckankar

Now it all becomes clear!  I had always wondered what sort of idiot was posting
all these *looong* semi-coherent posts with MELODRAMATIC CAPITALISATION.  Now
I know...it's one of those Ick...ooops, Eck...people.

*big*sigh*

Enjoy the journey!
                      --Br'anArthur
                                      Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
usually uses with Folgers crystals.  Let's see what happens...."
                                      --DACCrowell
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Doping Mercury
Keywords: Doping Mercury
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:32:22 GMT

in other words, 'doped' mercury would look and act
like mercury with maybe some odd elecrical properties,
not like gold?

of the metals which are said to be used in the preperation
of the philosopher's stone, one (iron) has odd electrical
properties (ferromagnetism, of course). I don't know that
I see any immediate connection....

most ionic substances exist as gases, eh?

josh
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: alchemy (was: Re: Dracula the Alchemist)
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:48:10 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <JOSHUA.93Jan21145128@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>, joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
> this is a seductive idea; Ia lwys thought, though, that the properties of an
> element were caused by their nuclear makeup (deuterium, for instance, 
> behaves more like hydrogen than it does like helium).
> the person who helped me out with a lot of this was, BTW, by profession
> an electrical engineer type or something like that. he seemed to think
> that the change was nuclear in nature. 

The chemical properties of an element are determined by their
electronic structure. The electronic structure is in turn determined
by the number of protons in the nucleus. Thus isotopes of an element,
which have differing numbers of neutrons but the same number of
protons, have the same chemical properties. Electrical neutrality will
in general be preserved, i.e., same number electrons and protons.

Deuterium and tritium are isotopes of hydrogen, which have special
names because of their *nuclear* properties.

			your friendly nuclear physicist,
					Lorenzo
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Alchemy
Date: 23 Jan 93 13:11:37 GMT
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Distribution: world
	<74128@cup.portal.com> <C19Fr2.45z@acsu.buffalo.edu>
	<74176@cup.portal.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bailey.cpac.washington.edu
In-reply-to: Thyagi@cup.portal.com's message of Fri, 22 Jan 93 16:54:42 PST


In article <74176@cup.portal.com> Thyagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth 
NagaSiva) writes:

>   As I said (please reread previous posts if I'm not clear enough here), 
>   I don't know whether or not these claims are true.  All I'm arguing is 
>   that assuming they're likely is a mistake until given better evidence.

but you are here implicitly assuming they are unlikely. really, tagi,
it would help if you researched the subject just a bit before making
any assumptions. you use words very skillfully, and certainly the 
patterns they make are beautiful in and of themselves, but words are
tools and not an end in themselves, and best employed towards such an
end.

josh
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: crisp@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Badvoc)
Subject: Re: ritual in lucid dreams
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:18:23 GMT

In <C1CLEE.CC8@techbook.com> nancyp@techbook.com (Nancy Parsons) writes:
[Lots of stuff deleted.]
>
>My nephew asked me once to "teach him some magic".  So I gave him an
>exercise guaranteed to make him capable of performing any magic he
>wanted.  I told him to pick an interesting-looking object, and 
>observe it in the most concentrated fashion of which he was capable,
>then close his eyes and try to visualize it.  When he was able to
>see the object as well with his mind as with his eyes, I said, I would
>give him another exercise.  You gotta start 'em out right ... 8-)
>

This is very interesting. Can anyone tell me how I would go about improving
my ability to visualize real objects. When I try to visualize objects that I
have recently seen or otherwise. My mind is is either empty of full of
chaotic images. I would like to hear peoples responsies to this.

- Badvoc.

-- 
crisp@dcs.warwick.ac.uk | Acid on the floor so she walks on the ceiling.
csukf@csv.warwick.ac.uk | - Andrew Eldritch.
main(){char a[7];t(a,82480129);puts(a);}t(a,c)char
*a;{if(c)t(a+1,c>>5),c&=31,c+=c-1?'a':'A';*a=c;}
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: ritual in lucid dreams
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:00:50 GMT

In article <lmdh4vINN33p@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
>>From article <1993Jan26.191823.2712@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>, by crisp@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Badvoc):
>>[...]
>>> This is very interesting. Can anyone tell me how I would go about improving
>>> my ability to visualize real objects. When I try to visualize objects that I
>>> have recently seen or otherwise. My mind is is either empty of full of
>>> chaotic images. I would like to hear peoples responsies to this.
>
This is just a guess, but I wonder if working with what you've got by
developing the ability to *choose* whether you get the blank or the
chaotic images would help.

Do you find that the chaotic images phase is good for anything? If so,
I'd appreciate it if you'd talk a little about how to get chaotic
images. I get the occasional random image on the edge of sleep, but
they're well-defined.

Nancy Lebovitz
nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu
From: jkn@ohm.york.ac.uk (John Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Doping Mercury
Keywords: Doping Mercury
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:26:32 GMT
Organization: Electronics Department, University of York, UK

On the general subject of transmutation of elements:
Wasn't there a (French, I think) experimentor who
(relatively recently) has made claims that living
organisms can transmutate such? Specifically, from
what I remember, he fed chickens carefully controlled
diets containing insufficient amounts of calcium
to produce eggshells. The implications of the
`research' was that the chickens could (and did)
turn an allied element into the required calcium.

Sorry this is a bit vague - I shall look up more information,
but I would be interested in finding out more than the relatively
small anecdotal reports I have read.

	john N

-- 
john nicoll (jkn@ohm.york.ac.uk)
Department of Electronics  University of York
Heslington   YORK YO1 5DD U.K
Tel +44 (904) 433221   Fax +44 (904) 432335
Xref: sparky alt.magick:6922 alt.magick:6923
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:39:54 EST
From: Sleight of Hans <HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick
Subject: Re: You prefer white or black magic?
 <JJAS.93Jan23153826@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu>

In article <JJAS.93Jan23153826@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu>, jjas@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu
(Jason Stephenson) says:
>
>Personally and professionally I feel that coloring magic black or
>white bears no relevance to actual philosophical and mystical
>practice.  Classifying magic as "Black" or "White" is the stuff of
>fairy tales and religious superstition.  (My 1/50 of a dollar. B-D)

Personally, *I* believe that crossposting to inappropriate groups
bears no relevance to the subject at hand in the above formentioned
post.

What type of magic do I prefer?  Close-up mostly, some coins work, alot
of cards.  But I have done a bit of work recently with some of the
Al Goshman Sponge Ball routines.

Please stop crossposting this type of post to alt.MAGIC and keep it in
alt.magicK <-----  (note the K!   K!  K!  K!  K!  ----`  note the lack of K!)
where it belongs.  Thank you.

| O |                                                                   | O |
|   | Hans C. Masing          "By all means marry: If you get a good    |   |
| O | HCM100 @ PSUVM.psu.edu   wife, you'll become happy; if you get    | O |
|   | HCM100 @ CBA1.psu.edu    a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." |   |
| O | Penn State MIS Dept.                           - Socrates         | O |
|   |                                                                   |   |
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: alchemy (was:  Re: Dracula the Alchemist)
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:45:00 GMT
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Distribution: world
	<1993Jan18.222515.405@news.uwyo.edu> <C16CFC.I6H@HQ.Ileaf.COM>
	<1993Jan21.082614.409@news.uwyo.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bailey.cpac.washington.edu
In-reply-to: rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu's message of 21 Jan 93 08:26:14 MST


In article <1993Jan21.082614.409@news.uwyo.edu> rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich 
Travsky) writes:

>   In article <C16CFC.I6H@HQ.Ileaf.COM>, rap@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Roger Powell) 
>   writes:

>   > Life extension:

>   > This one I can't really see. The thing is, life extension is perceived 

>   I suppose the thing to do here is try and decide just what is it whose 
>   life is being extended: the physical body, or something incoporeal. 

the western literature is fairly explicit about this: the physical life
is what is being extended. there are even said to be two forms of this.
in one, the adept (who, curiously, all seem to be male; if anyone knows
of a tradition of an immortal female adept they should please inform me)
is seemingly 50 years old or so indefinitely. in the other, the adept
allows himself to age until he's 70 or so, and then reduces his apparent
age to 20 or so. this process involves the hair and teeth falling out
and regrowing and the body going through sort of a metamorphosis in the
space of a couple three weeks.

see my previous remarks re skepticism.

josh
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mist@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Paul Timmins)
Subject: Re: The method of Science, the aim of Religion
Organization:  Vigilantes are great goldfish 
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:42:28 GMT

  Well, most every pseudointellectual <and intellectual> who doesnt
embrace the concept of magic<k for the purists;> tends to veer to the
concept of saying one must prove it scientifically, but contributes
little. Everything is science, one way or another, religion is a
science, but thats off the subject. I've been working on figuring
quantative experiments based on it, and I'm sure that a good portion of
that which is believed can be proven. I mean, chunks of hematite
shattering is not a temp differential thing.. theres another level which
escapes most of us. I'm babbling.
  Guess my point is, too many people try to disbelieve everything they
learn in order to prove it true. Too many people trying to learn try to
understand why tooo early, y'know? One must have some foundation of
knowledge so that they can backup and examine why things are. If you're
going to express interest in magic, try to be as accepting, and not
skeptical at first, and let your mind be influenced. Sure a good portion
is psychosomatic, a lot is selfinduced, but I've found it better to
learn how, and experiment, then try to approach it scientifically. Makes
for better research. Hmm. This was kinda convoluted.