HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jm0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH ALOYSIUS MCVEIGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Another 'Fundamental' Loss the NYM
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:02:26 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

cscott@csc.afit.af.mil writes:
>......................................The Mets are a team that, for the
>most part, does not have the 'will to win.'  It's hard to tell where it
>went--maybe Davey Johnson took it with him? :-)

The Mets' guts and desire were gone long before Davey was. In the last months
of Johnson's tenure, they reminded me of the stereotypical, great high-school
athlete that keeps rehashing the old glories well into his/her adulthood. All
the Mets were discussing the "good old days" of the scrappy Lenny
Dykstra-Kevin Mitchell-Wally Backman-Ray Knight nucleus that generated esprit
de corps and the winning spirit. In 1987-89, how could guys like HoJo and
McReynolds feel when all they heard was "We miss the guy who played your
position before you"?

I don't know how Harrelson, a feisty player in his day, got so blase, but it
happened. Jeff "Torpor"? I was hoping they'd hire Baylor or Chambliss (an old
Yankee hero of mine, whose HR against KC is one of my fave baseball memories).

The Mets will continue to underachieve and make high-school blunders on the
bases and in the field as long as the pitching - the real power source of the
Mutts - remains substandard. "Wait 'til next year!"

                                                    - JAM

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Aloysius McVeigh  |  "That's known as competition, it's what capitalism
       "N.I.N.A."        |   is all about, and it's one of the things (the
[Quote c/o Alan Abelson] |   other is pro football) that made America great."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: The Expos...Surprise of the second half...
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:56:28 GMT
Organization: North Dakota State University, Fargo

What does people have to say about the Expos....only
2 behind the NL-east leading pirates...

Whether this is just a flashy streak or will they
give the Bucs a run for their money. 

Valentine or any other knowledgable.....what is
ur opinion on this....

S.H
Forever a Twins' fan...

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: heilig@crchh120.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Timothy Heilig)
Subject: Re: Simulation Games
Organization: "Bell Northern Research"
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:45:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.231327.24337@leland.Stanford.EDU>, claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
|> In article <QePOu0i00Uh7M1JNxs@andrew.cmu.edu> Todd Harris Fletcher <tf0y+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> >What is the best board simulation game?  APBA? Strat-o-Matic? Persue the
|> >Pennant? Why do you think that?
|> 
|> IMO, Pursue the Pennant.  I have never played APBA, but I have played Strat.
|> PTP is vastly superior.
|> 

I tend to agree though not on all points.

|> 1.	More realistic fielding.  Location matters.  I mean, a "SI1" (Strat)
|> 	is rather dull, but you get more of a sense of how the ball went if
|> 	it is "cut-off" by a fielder.  Also, Strat doesn't allow fielders to
|> 	commit errors on throws.

A SI + E1 in the outfield is most likely meant to be an error on the 
throw in SOM, as is an E2 by an infielder.

|> 
|> 2.	A better system of relief pitching.
|> 

Please elaborate, I don't see much of a difference.

|> 3.	Cards that are easy to read.
|> 

Here I completely disagree, SOM cards are MUCH easier to read as far as evaluating
quickly.  Some SOM players have played years without counting "chances" on the
cards, I couldn't go a month without counting the chances on PTP cards, because
it's the only way to evaluate the card (95% of the cards look essentially the same 
at a glance.

|> 4.	Costs less.  (At least for the '91 card set; in the past, Strat has
|> 	cost less, but this season PTP, with its better cards, actually cost
|> 	less.)
|> 

SOM has really dropped the ball here, prices are escalating faster than the CA
public school system.

|> 5.	*Much* more realistic injuries.  Strat only allows injuries while
|> 	batting, which means that pitchers never get hurt in a DH league, and
|> 	all players usually get injured a lot less than they actually do, which
|> 	means that you don't really need a bench.

While PTP is much more realistic, the SOM rules specify that if a 6-12 is rolled
while the DH is batting, the opposing pitcher is injured.

|> 
|> 6.	An amusing wild play chart.
|> 

Very true, far and away the best selling point for career SOM players.

|> Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)

BTW I spent a great deal of time last night showing the PTP cards to a
buch of SOM friends.  

Other PTP highlights:

7. Less dependence on "General Concensus" when assigning fielding ratings.
   Also, they don't need to control team double plays when assigning ratings
   so their individual ratings become more accurate.  (i.e. Ozzie and Oquendo 
   both AA's in 1990 (Oquendo was a 2 in SOM because making him a 1 would have
   reulted in too many Cardinal DP's)

8. Better Starting Pitcher rest chart.

9. MUCH better weather effects.

10. More accurate split results, (close play, blown call, etc.)  All SOM has
    is SI* 1-11, lo 12-20 (may as well be K 12-20)

                                                    Tim
Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:22:31 -0400 
From: Mary Rose Campbell <mc3d+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: All right, let's settle Stathead vs. Intangiblehead FOR GOOD.
Distribution: na

zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Not Just For The Dead Huckabay) writes :

>How about a stathead softball game?  Pro-Stat versus anti-stat, nine
>innings of slow pitch, losers shut up forever on the topic.  


How about having the non-stathead non-intangible rsbb readers as umpires?  :-)

mrc

(This is my last post.  I graduated in May and am leaving town tomorrow
so I won't have access to my account.  Unless I get a modem and figure
out how to explain $400 phone bills to my parents.)
From: jm0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH ALOYSIUS MCVEIGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:15:33 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Jul27.162336.17085@encore.com>, jlundy@bilbo.encore.com (Joe Lun
dy) writes:
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (roger maynard) writes:
>|> >Who would you rather have: Bonds or Puckett?  Playing
>|> >for an underdog Kirby has two rings.  Playing for a favourite Bonds has
>|> >zip.

Thanks. I was looking for proof of my claim that Bob Uecker was a better
catcher than Carlton Fisk.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Aloysius McVeigh  | "From Hell's heart, I stab at thee. For Hate's sake
       "N.I.N.A."        |  I spit my last breath at thee..." - John Milton
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jortiz@lazy.helios.nd.edu (The Candyman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Best Looking Swing
Date: 25 Jul 92 01:21:32 GMT
Reply-To: jortiz@lazy.helios.nd.edu (The Candyman)
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame

In article <1992Jul23.205255.2024@amgen.com>, chriss@sam.amgen.com (Chris Silvester) writes:
|> In article <92204.121229ALWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>, <ALWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
|> > 
|> >     When I watch a good hitter at the plate, they will show the swing of the
|> >   hitter in slow motion. IMHO the best looking swings I've seen are:
|> >         1) Dave Justice
|> >         2) Will Clark
|> >         3) Don Mattingly
|> >         4) George Brett
|> > 
|> >     These  are all good hitters. Of course, there are more but these are the
|> >   ones that I can name offhand. If you care to add more or comment on those
|> >   that I have just named  feel free. I know that George Brett was influenced
|> >   by Charlie Lau's  style of hitting, I don't know about the others though...
|> > 
|> In the All-Star Game last week, when Ken-Griffey Jr hit his homer opposite
|> field, he reminded me of Will Clark.  I don't follow the Mariners on a regular
|> basis though.  Anyone else (on Griffey) ?
|> 
|> Chris S.

Yup, me.  I don't follow the Mariners either, but
I like Jr.'s swing a lot, very elegant.

The Candyman
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Mon, Jul 27th, 1992
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:05:19 GMT

<Jack Morris is a winner, no he's lucky stuff deleted>

>Seitzer isn't young.  Neither is Surhoff.  Their starting pitching is
>somewhat rickety, though they aren't necessarily old.  But the key to
>the Brewers offense is Molitor.  Molitor has been *very* injury prone
>over his career.  Playing DH may help, but many of his injuries have
>come from his aggressive baserunning (which he still practices).  I'm
>not saying that he *will* get injured.  But if you give me odds, I'll
>take the bet.
    
    Last year was Molitor's first year as an almost full-time DH and 
    after a silly spring training injury, he played about 150 games
    I think.
>
>>  Overall,
>>  it's a solid team that has a penchant for winning tight games, a very big
>>  plus in anyone's book.                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Are you sure about this one?  Do you have any numbers to back this up?
     
     I'm not totally sure on this one, but I thought I read that they 
     were 20-12 in one-run games, second only to San Diego in the majors.
     Of course, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong ;)!
	
	--Salty

>Cheers,
>-Valentine
>-- 
>If Plantier goes, I go!				tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: enw2049@zeus.tamu.edu (WALKE, ERIK N)
Subject: Re:  possible FAQ, etc. . . .
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:03:00 GMT

In RE the recent suggestion to post a FAQ:  I'm all for it.  Someone 
who would undertake that mamoth task would be doing all who susbsribe 
for stats, personnell info., etc. a big favor.  I, for example, had 
subscribed with an eye toward getting ticket #'s, more current info on 
pitching rotations, etc. as well as player development news.  If all 
such info. could be posted in an organized way (ie, we all agree on some
format, perhaps?!) then getting through the *heavy* traffic on this 
group would be tons easier.  Go for it, some brave soul!!


***************************************************************************
  All opinions expressed by this user are well-reasoned and insightful. 
  Needless to say, they are not those of his advisor or university.

       ( thanks to Michael Feldman for the idea ;-)  )
**************************************************************************
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Jerald Clark, stinker or stud? (was: Padres mid-season)
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:37:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <1992Jul23.234709.12998@ucselx.sdsu.edu> tchan@ucselx.sdsu.edu (t c) writes:

>you seem to be pretty biased against Jerald Clark.

That's because after many years and lots of chances, he *still* is
a lousy outfielder, despite what Coleman and Monday claim, and he
*still* can't hit.  He's 29 years old, for cryin' out loud, and
just isn't a good ballplayer.  Ward/Stephenson aren't the answer
long term, but Clark certainly isn't.  Get somebody who can play
out there to try to win the division, or let Darrell Sherman or
Dave Staton or somebody get major league experience.  Or dump
Lefferts, Myers and Benito and sign Barry Bonds...

I do tend to rag on him, and it's not his fault that management
plays him instead of a real ballplayer, but he's never been good
either in the OF or at the plate.

I'll stop now... feel free to get in the last word if you want...


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: twhite@mozart.amd.com (Tom White)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Both Canadian teams in first place
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:36:19 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas


   It would certainly be a death blow for CBS.  I don't think they'd
   like it at all.



--
 Thomas White          | Happy |  
 Austin, Texas         | Happy |  When you say words a lot 
                       |  Joy  |  they don't mean anything. 
 twhite@mozart.amd.com |  Joy! |                -- Del
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:42:29 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <BrwIx1.5uM@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>
>The managers job is to make decisions the players job is to perform and do
>the job the manager tells him to.  

Historically, yes.  However, it is quickly becoming apparent that this is
not the best way to run things, nor even an O.K.  way.  I'm not going
to hold my breath waiting for Total Quality Management principles to be
adopted by major league baseball franchises, though...

The manager's *job* is to do whatever is necessary to optimize production 
from himself and the people he is managing, over the long term, in an
environment of continuous improvement and mutual support.  

-- 
        David Tate         |  "Complacencies of the fungo, and late 
  dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu  |   Infield and B.P. in a sunny field
     "Sunday Afternoon"    |   [...]         mingle to dissipate
  Wallace "Vern" Stevens   |   The holy hush of Pastime National..."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: pjohnso@triton.unm.edu (Paddy Johnson CIRT)
Subject: PCL News
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 18:37:58 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico

The Albuquerque Dukes just signed as the Dodgers' AAA affiliate
for two more years ending speculation that the Dodgers might move
their afflilation to Sacramento.  The Dodgers have a more than 30
year history with Albuquerque having had some sort of minor team
in Albuquerque ranging from A to AAA for this time period.

Edmonton is going to spend 8 million on a new stadium for the 
Trappers (Angels' AAA affiliate).

The Colorado Springs SkySox are not going to sign up as the Cleveland
Indians AAA affilate.  They will probably sign as the Rockies AAA team.
This is a big change for the PCL South as the SkySox are a real 
powerhouse in the PCL South.
From: kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu (Dave Nobody Kirsch)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The Expos...Surprise of the second half...
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:23:31 GMT
Organization: Dominican Deities - Juan Guzman levitation branch

In article <1992Jul29.222849.1472@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> twromero@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Michael 'not Pa'Lin) writes:
>
>  The Expos have improved their odds of winning at Las Vegas from
>800-1 to 4-1 to win it all.
>
>  Don't you wish you had put some money down???

  I did, I did! Okay, it was only $20, but I only got 50-1 odds too. I'd like
to find out where anyone was giving 800-1 odds on the Expos, cuz I would've
plunked down more money in a minute. Oddsmakers in Vegas and Tahoe are
*notorious* for ripping you off in this kind of thing, and most of them were
especially conservative about long odds this year after what happened with
the Twins and Braves last year. (The way they set up the odds, it looks like
if you bet $50 across the board every year, you'd be lucky to get half your 
money back over a long period of time. 97% payout? Yeah, right.) 

  Mind you, I didn't go and bet on them cuz I thought they *would* win. I bet
on them cuz of the long odds and cuz I felt they had the best chance of doing
what the Twinkees/Braves did last year. They've got a lot better starting
staff than people realize, *gobs* of good young players and now they finally
have a manager that seems to be able to assemble his parts into a whole.
(Actually, we don't know about that last one yet, but I never really cared
for Runnells at all.) 
 
-- 
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch       "Blue Jays all the way in '92"
kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu                                      Jeff Kent for ROY
"Try new Fortenberry wine coolers, with a biting, bitter taste" - Noel Steere
Slanguage dictionary: maynard - "to insult with disdain and contempt"
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RC/27 for 1Bs
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:06:20 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <1992Jul28.175253.21458@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu) writes:
>
>AMERICAN LEAGUE
>Frank Thomas, Chicago		9.98	(So what else is new?)


Hear, hear.

Frank Thomas rolls on.  In this "slumping, disappointing, sophomore jinxed"
season, he is currently on a pace for the following:

 G   AB   H   2B  3B  HR  BB   R   RBI   AVG   OBP   SLG  SB  CS   RC  RC/27
159 564  175  36   3  25 132  94   109  .311  .441  .518   8   3  144   9.9

Sure looks like an MVP contender to me.  Some off-year.  He's still on a pace
for 293 total bases, 310 times on base.  Just a tad more slugging, and he 
could go 300/300 again, even after his "poor start".

I'll have to go back and check to see who the last few players to have back-
to-back .300/.400/.500 seasons were...


-- 
        David M. Tate        | "And that inverted Bowl we call The Dome
   dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu   |  Whereunder crawling coop'd we field and bat,
   Edward "Mike" Fitzgerald  |     Lift not your eyes to *it* for help--for it
     from "The Ruthaiyat"    |  Will drop the tow'ring fly upon your hat."
From: jasdzews@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Gary James Jasdzewski)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: net demographics
Date: 30 Jul 92 08:28:09 GMT

I seem to remember someone asking for each netter's favorite team.
This person was then going to post the results of the survey.  Did
this happen or am I imagining it all?
From: adobe.com!snichols@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RP/PA for AL and NL (More bogus RP stats)
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:54:00 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

In article <BrrqEL.3K7@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> 
djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>I don't think it is possible to compare a player playing in 1927 to a player
>in 1990 for the simple reason that baseball has changed so much.  It has
>changed in the way pitchers are used (How many relievers were around then),
>far fewer teams to share the quality pitching and hitting with etc.  Please
>use more current stats as I and most others can relate to them easier 
because
>I know that I was not around at that time.

Fine.  How about Jose Canseco of 1988?  He drove in 16.5% of his team's
runs, while Joe Carter of 1990 drove in 17%.  Do you really believe that
Joe Carter had a better season?

>runs.  If you wish this may be more effective to compare leadoff hitters
>with others leadoff hitters and cleanup hitters with other cleanup hitters
>etc. and i never said it was the perfect stat but RBI's and Runs depend
>too much on the players hitting around him. 

So how does dividing by the number of runs a team scores solve this problem?

> If you have improvements I
>would love to hear them but if you just want to try and explain why it
>isn't a good stat without improving it or giving suggestions on how to 
>improve it then just say you don't like it and leave the discussion about
>it.

(And somebody called me terminally condescending).

I'll give you a suggestion: abandon using anything with runs and rbis in it
to evaluate the individual contributions of the players.  You can divide by
anything you want, and it's not going to solve the fundamental problem,
only make small improvements.  Instead, look at things like Linear Weights
(ignoring the fielding stuff, which is flawed), or, if you want a simple
measure, check out OBA+SLG or Runs Created.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: All right, let's settle Stathead vs. Intangiblehead FOR GOOD.
Keywords: Duel, Honor, Hot Fudge Lundy, NuKid [tm]. Steerific...
Date: 30 Jul 92 05:12:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <15621@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Not Just For The Dead Huckabay) writes:

>How about a stathead softball game?  Pro-Stat versus anti-stat, nine
>innings of slow pitch, losers shut up forever on the topic.  
>
>With this in mind, I propose the following lineup:
>
>[you really don't want to know...]

I dibs broadcast rights and volunteer my services for plate umpire.
In case you're curious, Huckazoid, you went oh-fer-the-day at the
plate and three of your attempts in RF have been ruled traps.

Heck, for the right amount of action, I might even open book on this one...

"Popped up into sshallow right field.  Huckabay seems to have lost
this one too, folks, and -- oh yes, it drops for a base hit..."

(snicker snicker)

-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: AMATEUR: Miskatonic falls, 1-0, in FANTASTIC 11 inning game.
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:40:00 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

In rec.sport.baseball, zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Lost In Austria Huckabay) writes:

> 		IP     H     R     ER     BB     K      NP
> Owchinko, W     11     4     0     0       5     17     ??
> Huckabay, L     10.2   2     1     0       1     18     156

Can we get Game Scores on this?  Looks like you got a "Tough Loss" for sure;
that game score must have approached 3 digits, though.  Congratulations!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
From: jerry@bunker.shel.isc-br.com (Gerald J. Lanza)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:12:15 GMT
Organization: ISC-Bunker Ramo, An Olivetti Company (Shelton, CT)

|	I'd rather everyone enjoys his/her work environment,
|but no relationship had been shown between players that are having fun and
|winning.

	Have you checked Gary Sheffield lately ?



						jerry
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dbloom@bnr.ca David Bloom 
Subject: Herzog at Columbus
Keywords: 
 
Organization:  BNR-RTP 
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:25:57 GMT

I heard that Whitey Herzog is going to be visiting
Columbus, the AAA team for the Yankees. From what
I hear, Abbott is not available at all. However, since  
Langston has a no-trade clause in his contract, it seems
likely that Finley is available in a possible trade.
Also, I heard that California is interested in Kevin Maas.
So, maybee a multi-player trade is in the works.


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball