From: muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: THE DARKSIDE OF CHRISTIANITY
Date: 17 Apr 92 03:11:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: en.1992Apr17.031116.14416
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <GOEHRING.92Apr15165827@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> goehring@mentor.cc.purdue.edu writes:
>muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
>
>>John 1:1, 14:
>
>[scriptural quote deleted]
>
>>Jesus was and is God.
>
>What compelling reason do I have to believe you?  Recall that I do not
>accept the Bible as factual.

The statement was meant for those who would argue that Jesus is not God based
on the Bible, but here goes anyway:

You must give the Bible some historical credibility before we proceed, or at
least accept that Jesus said he was God.  If you don't buy this then maybe we
had better start at the beginning, since you are one of those types of people
who have to have everything proven to them.

Assuming that Jesus said he was God, and given that our historical accounts
of him are accurate (I believe you said once that he was perhaps the greatest
moral teacher - .sig or something?), then he must have been one of three
things:

-A Liar
-A Lunatic
-Lord


He could not have been a liar, because to live ones life as such a perfect
lie would be nearly impossible, and to die for what you knew was false would
mean some type of mental disorder.

If he was a lunatic (mental disorder mentioned above), then would he have
displayed the wisdom and "sane" personality that he did?  Certainly he did
(as far as history can tell us) not display the signs which accompany this
type of disorder.  Rather he was _at least_ one of the greatest individuals
who ever lived.

If he was not crazy, and he was not wilfully deceiving, then he must have
been telling the truth when he claimed to be God.  This is the only other
alternative.

I realize this pivots on 1) Jesus claiming to be God, and 2) Jesus living the
type of life that I described.  Because much of what we know about Jesus
comes from the Bible its authority also becomes an issue.

I cannot resolve these things, nor can anyone "prove" Christianity beyond a
shadow of a doubt since it is based on non-repeatable phenomena.  If you want
to learn something about Christianity you have to leave the scientific proof
method behind, because it is simply not applicable to historical events.  I
think there is a lot of historical evidence which leads to Christianity being
"probably" correct, but any historical scholar can make history say anything
he wants it to, because it is hard to keep ones own presuppositions in check.
For example, if you look into Christianity "knowing" you will not be
satisfied, you will not be.  If one is honest with their research it is my
personal opinion that they will find the truth that I have found.  Even
though I have not lived for very long on this earth, *everything* in my
experience thus far points to the Christian God and salvation through Jesus
who is God.  Do not think that I have accepted this lightly, for I do not say
it lightly.  I am a _very_ critical person, and the statement I have just
made would be _infinitely_ more persuasive if you could get into my mind and
know what I know.  Enough wishful thinking....

John M.