HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: getting named
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:54:04 EST
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Carlson Library, Univ of Toledo

In article <1992Aug10.170536.18023@cis.ohio-state.edu>, amz@cis.ohio-state.edu
  (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
...
> i did find her wording odd, until i realized it was probably the best
> she could do.  undoubtedly she has no better scheme for identifying
> houses than by their residents; addresses, or even counting off from
> her own house, are probably as unavailable to a nine-year-old as the
> family names of her friends.  

     Back in the days when I lived in Buffalo, my living/rental arrangements
were never really understood by my neighbors.

     There were 4 people living in the 2 family house, with 3 last names on the
mailbox.  Nate and I are both the same height, about the same build, with same
color hair, moustaches & wire-framed glasses.  Neighbors thought that Nate & I
were brothers (especially since I chatted about having a twin brother).  But
the upstairs tenant was actually Nate's brother.  A bit shorter than Nate & I,	
but also similar colored hair, glasses & moustache!

     The real puzzler for the neighbors was when they tried figuring out who
Carol was married to!  The neighbors could not comprehend 3 unmarried people
sharing an apartment.  A common statement was, "Your wife already thanked me
for that"  or  "I thought that your brother took care of that".  

     Some of the kids on the block thought that Nate and I were boyfriends.  No
one ever chided us with homophobic comments.  The kids took it all in stride
and Nate never seemed to be bothered by it when it occasionaly popped up. 

     At times, the neighborhood kids thought that Nate & I were the same
person, since they did not recall seeing both of us at the same time!

     Everything got straightened out in people's minds when Nate & Carol moved
out into their own house, as they got married.  Though I am sure that someone
probably thought that Carol moved out as part of a divorce.  But that still
leaves the question in their mind, WHO was she married/divorced from, since she
never changed her last name!

     Even after they had 2 children, their answering machine still had the
message, "You have reached the house of Carol Cunningham and Nathan Neill."
I am sure that their new neighbors are still perplexed by the fact that they
don't know if Carol & Nate are married!

--
                                               "Librarian, Leather bound"
Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,  (Univ of Toledo)           * * * * 
PO Box 12650                  Toledo OH  43606-0250            *   *   
(w): 419-537-2629      fac2813@uoft01                            *   
(h): 419-243-2740      fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu         B4 t+ w- g s+ k
From: harris@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Trey Harris)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the rescuers, oops
Keywords: rescue, waterfall
Date: 18 Aug 92 04:17:05 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <1992Aug14.012134.27597@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>In article <joelp.713749733@cs.man.ac.uk>, joelp@cs.man.ac.uk (Joel Parthemore || Pharos Project) writes:

>> >Trey deserves his own special distinction.  But since I haven't
yet responded
>>   ^^^^
>> >to any of his posts (having just made it back to soc.motss land),
I'm not sure
>>  >what title is appropriate.
>> 
>>  Apologies to Todd.  I'm not sure what came over me.
>
>   Actually, I was wondering who Trey was (other than our newly found
>essayist in North Carolina :-) Todd will no doubt be glad to hear
>that you are home and, assumedly, away from waterfalls. Since he
>doesn't yet have access to the net, I doubt that he will be responding
>soon. 

Hul-lo!  I'm afraid I've let my motssing slip lately, as I'm getting
ready to move into school Saturday.  I'm glad I thought to do a grep
for my own name...  Apparently that other article has expired now,
so would someone please explain to me what I am suddenly doing in
a strange thread?  :-)

Hmmm.  Stranger in a Strange Thread.  I like it!  But yet, I do not
yet grok in fullness.  :-)

Trey Harris


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: spencer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Subject: Re: be kind to small furry animals
Reply-To: spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Live Organ Transplants
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 04:10:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.175441.17948@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.110834.310@news.Hawaii.Edu> johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:
>
>>I regret that there are people so incredibly clueless that they could
>>possibly have taken your gerbiling post seriously.
>
>Oh?  There are people so incredibly clueless they believe Cramer never
>responds with name-calling or insults.  There are people so incredibly
>clueless they believe Arthur T. Hu.

As Dennis Miller once said (well, he said words more or less to this
effect), things like the National Enquirer and the Weekly World News are
of great entertainment value to normal people, but the really scary
thing is that there are actually people who SUBSCRIBE to these things.

There are people who think pro wrestling is real.

While working in the box office, I have actually been asked when the
next show starts, by someone standing right in front of the box office
marquee that lists all the showtimes.

Kinda makes you wonder about humans being intelligent...

----------- The opinions expressed in this article are solely mine. -----------
<Insert lame attempt at disclaimer humor>
sss/PU'94 Dept of CS (spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu)/JvNCnet (spencer@jvnc.net)
"Horror?  Steckle, it's ignorance we fear.  Since when did truth and
knowledge become a horror?"
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sarcasm
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:56:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug18.235649.14429
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Aug18.142659.4815@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>Frankly, I first thought the guy's response was a rather wry example
>of sarcasm itself.

>Youth!  First they apologize for making silly posts about gerbils,
>and now they apologize for insulting the sarcasm-impaired.

you fucking bigot. How dare you talk about Trey and I in one breath,
just because we're both "youth" and because we've both managed to
raise hackles on soc.motss in the same week?

>Why is it that only the ones who needn't apologize think of doing so,
>whereas "Sargon the Butch" marches on...

I'm really enjoying all the various nasty nickanames people are coming
up for him. Such creativity!
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/       Before the cream sits out too long, you must whip it
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Introduction
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:09:27 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) wrote:
>Yeah, I think that's been said a few times by now.  Hey, it was sharper
>than I'd go for, but in the big scheme of things it seemed rather
>mild.  Or, as Jess would put it: "tart".  Let's just say I've seen a
>lot worse from other people

Pot meet kettle?

>who never receive any comeuppance.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From:  David Christopher Rogers <drogers@riacs.edu>
Subject: none
In-Memoriam: rob@mtdiablo.concord.ca.us (Rob Bernardo)
Originator: drogers@solstice.riacs.edu
Organization: RIACS, NASA Ames Research Center
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 19:29:18 GMT

[I've posted this before, but never more appropriately. 
BTW, I think he hated Edna. -- DCR]


			Dirge without Music

I am not resigned to the shutting away of loving hearts
    in the hard ground.
So it is, and so it will be, for so it has been, time out
    of mind:
Into the darkness they go, the wise and the lovely.
    Crowned with lillies and with laurel they go; but
    I am not resigned.

Lovers and thinkers, into the earth with you.
Be one with the dull, the indiscriminate dust.
A fragment of what you felt, of what you knew,
A formula, a phrase remains, -- but the best is lost.

The answers quick and keen, the honest look, the 
    laughter, the love, --
They are gone.  They are gone to feed the roses. 
    Elegant and curled
Is the blossom.  Fragrant is the blossom.  I know.  But I
    do not approve.
More precious was the light in your eyes than all the 
    roses in the world.

Down, down, down into the darkness of the grave
Gently they go, the beautiful, the tender, the kind;
Quietly they go, the intelligent, the witty, the brave.
I know.  But I do not approve.  And I am not resigned.


		    -- Edna St. Vincent Millay
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Gay Republicans
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:33:14 GMT

[]
This morning on the "Today" show, Katy Couric got a young
gay Republican delegate, Ginny Appuzzo, and the chair of
the Republican Conservative Coalition (Bob Buzzell?)
together for a little chat about gay men and lesbians in
the Republican Party (sorry, all you bisexuals, you really
don't exist).  The gay Republican said that Bush is actually
a moderate who has been swayed by the radical Christian
right minority and that the platform doesn't really reflect
the views of most Republicans.  He also said, however, that
the gay delegates got together and decided not to endorse
Bush.  Ginny Appuzzo made the point that the Republican
Party is the party of death death death.

The fellow from the Coalition followed by remarking that
if the previous two speakers meant what they said, then
they didn't know much about the Republican Party.  Couric
asked if there's a place for gays and lesbians in the
Republican Party, and he answered that there was, but that
the Republicans never has and never will endorse the radical
gay agenda.  That agenda, he said, included things like
homosexual marriage [oooooh! - ms] and gay people being
allowed to adopt children [aaaaah! - ms].  He pointed out
that if nothing else, the conversation they were having
could be used by voters to help understand the differences
between the Democrats and the Republicans.  At least he
was right about something.  Couric hammered him about
'family values' being used as a smokescreen for gay
bashing [good for her], and he said that that was an
insulting comment - that when he and other conservatives
said 'family values,' they meant exactly what they said.
At that point Appuzzo jumped in with a discussion of what
a family is, and with a description of Republican implementation
of 'family values' policies during the past 12 years (she's
Deputy Housing Commissioner for NYC).

I find it absolutely astonishing that any gay, lesbian,
or bisexual person could even consider being a member of
the Republican Party.  The party has taken an unequivocal
stand against equal rights for all of us (and that 
includes His Royal Butchness, Boob Sarver).  Do any of
us really believe that we're not entitled to equal
treatment under the law?
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: New queer terminology (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 17 Aug 92 05:17:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug17.051713.15854
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

Wow, it's been awhile since I've posted some tripe and then been
flamed so quickly and so properly. I'm an idjit, and I'm glad my
friends pointed it out.

I should explain a little more about my posting. I don't agree with
the distinctions I presented. I don't go around thinking of gays as
being silly older men who deserve nothing but contempt, and I
certainly don't worship the ground Queer Nation kisses on.

The "differences" I'd outlined between "gay" and "queer" are ones I
hear frequently. Remember "I hate gay men"? People think this way.

Is there any merit to thinking like this? I don't know, which is why I
asked. It's fairly clear from the response so far that disclaiming all
of "gay" is disdainful and insulting.

Unfortunately I asked my question really stupidly. I realize now that
there is no other way someone could actually read my post than to
think that I believed the argument. This puts me in the unenviable
positioning of trying to explain why I argued for something that I
myself find repugnant. I didn't even put a smiley there to hide behind
- the closest I came was asking "Is 'queer' postmodern?" (a question I
would not ask seriously).

The supposed differences between the "new queer generation" and the
"old gay generation" is not an issue I know very much about. The few
chances I've had to learn so far have been inadequate. Most of my
political knowledge comes from working with Queer Nation / Portland.
There are a couple of books I have read about early gay lib (one, "The
Gay Mystique", was important for my coming out), and I've talked to
and worked with people who have been gay for longer than I have. But I
don't really understand what it means to be homosexual before 1988.

I'm interested in understanding the differences between then and now.
But such an inquiry has to be directed in the correct context, and the
thing I posted certainly isn't such a good starting point, at least
for a friendly conversation.


Jess notes:
>In the process, however, you've suggested that gay is something
>irrelevant, useless, outmoded, inert, reactive rather than proactive,
>backward-looking, self-indulgent, and otherwise uniformly negative.

I apologize to Arnold and Jess and anyone else I might have insulted.

Jess' summary is accurate. I don't agree with this point of view
myself - I certainly don't think "all gay men" are so negative. I hope
the past discussions I've had with people, in motss and in e-mail,
reflect this.

I will endeavour to be less clumsy.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/        It's a sky blue sky, the satellites are out tonight
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan)
Subject: Re: the "oh" experience
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:18:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.162723.23786@slcs.slb.com> gak@slcs.slb.com (Glenn Kramer) writes:
>
>The career counsellor stopped in her tracks and said, "Oh...<long
>pause> Oh... <long pause> Oh... OK," and with that, we continued to
>the place where the party was to be held.
>
>I still delight in trying to reconstruct her exact thought processes
>during those long pauses...

Hee hee.  I imagine something like:

"Oh..."

<He's with him.  Friends.  No, a couple?  A couple.  Duh.
 Hey, no problem with me.  Some of my best...>

"Oh..."

<Oops, that means he's the one I referred to as the wife.
 Will he be offended, or is it a butch-femme thing?  They
 do that right?  Or don't they?  Really put my foot in my mouth 
 this time;  should I say something?  What?>

"Oh..."

<Forget it, I can't think of anything intelligent to say.  
 Let's just get to the party. I need a drink.>

"OK"

<A *big* drink.>


--John
-- 
John Flanagan                          ||
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu           ||"No need to overheat your rhetoric,
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| Exaggerating items in your pride..."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822    ||        -- Mephistopheles, _Faust_
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: redefining masculinity
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 04:51:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <l8uj82INNm28@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) 
writes:
>
>And I can't figure out how to erase messages on this machine.
>The friend whose house and cat I'm watching while she's out of
>town might be a tad offended by a couple of the messages I received
>(none, I hasten to add, from Jack).  Let's hope she has a sense
>of humor about this.

If I had thought you might be, so to speak, receptive, there's no telling
what I might have left on that machine. 

>> I'd like to get my southern accent back.
>
>What makes you think you lost it?

I've heard myself on tape.  There are only tiny little traces left.  As
I've said before, I want to get it back so people will think I'm a naive
country boy and try to take advantage of me (heh heh). 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:07:47 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.


/(me)
/   It all depends on what is more important to you:  the right
/   to act in a bizarre fashion, or political progress & social
/   acceptance.


/(robertl)
/The fallacy of the false dilemma occurs when only two alternatives of
/many are presented as choices in an argument.

That is because as the one increases, the other all too frequently
decreases.  They are linked to each other.



(robertl)
/Mr. Sarver, a hitherto unknown philosophical talent, 

My how witty.  Do you do movie & restaurant reviews as well? 



(robertl)
/has refined the
/art of false dilemma.  The new and exciting development he adds to the
/prior art is the presentation of *the same thing* as though it were
/two distinct choices in an argument.

Name five minority groups whose rights have increased as a result of
accelerating bizarre behavior. 

BTW (this is for Melinda and Arne, too):

The drag queens who fought the cops did not see their rights and
treatment improve because they dressed in drag.  

They saw their rights and treatment improve because they stood up to the 
bastards and didn't back down.  You can do that in drag, blue jeans, a
pin-stripe suit, or stark fucking naked.  The deciding factor wasn't
the clothing, but the decision to say, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not
going to take it anymore".  As soon as they started doing that, things
changed.

But standing up to the cops is one thing; that's a "force" issue. 
Promoting gay acceptance among the general public cannot be forced; you
cannot legislate a change of heart or opinion.  It's like morality in
that respect.
Whereas force and physical defiance works with the govt, it won't work
make progress with the average citizen.  


 

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jefu@akbar.nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Irony in Homophobia
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:53:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: nmt.1992Aug21.135335.11827
Organization: New Mexico Institute of Mining & Technology

In article <FOX.92Aug17102523@graphics.nyu.edu> fox@cs.nyu.edu (David  
Fox) writes:
> A letter to the New York Times, Friday August 16th.

> Homosexuality elsewhere in the animal kingdom is next to  
nonexistent,
> since failure to reproduce would prevent any genetic component of  
the
> characteristic from being passed on.  Homosexuality in nonhuman
> animals is thus limited to mutation.

The writer (not the poster) seems to misunderstand evolutionary
genetics pretty badly - or at least by my understanding of 
the field.  It is relatively easy to construct methods for
passing on altruism by heredity.  As to whether altruism and
homosexuality are linked, well thats yet another question.  It
wouldnt surprise me though.

--
jefu <=> Jeff Putnam - New Mexico Tech <=> jefu@nmt.edu 
"Overturn the dominant paradigm"
From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rob Bernardo
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:39:13 GMT
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
Distribution: world
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

In article 714141992@jfred, wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood) writes:
> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> 

[...]

> He was named for his father, Jack Robert Bernardo.
> 
> --
> Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
> "Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
>  You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
>    -- Ryerson Schwark, to my friend Rob Bernardo.

Are you sure?  That goes against Jewish tradition.  Jews name in honor of those
who have passed on.  I trust someone soon will be named after Rob...

Howard


---
========================================================================
Howard I. Solomon			|ELECTION '92
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|Hold your nose and vote for Bill!
his@east.sun.com			|
=========================================================================
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Something Bush said....
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:29:43 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens


In 1988 George Bush was quoted as saying (and I'm paraphrasing here)
that he didn't think gays were worthy to even clean the toilets in
the White House.  I'd like some info on exactly what Bush said, and
the circumstances of his saying it.  If anyone knows any thing about
this, please let me know via email.  


Thanks
-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: will@wixer.cactus.org (Bill Staniewicz)
Subject: Aspen gay ski week
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 01:45:46 GMT


I understand that there is a gay ski week held in Aspen during the winter
season. I was wondering if anyone has attended and what it's like. Also, when
will it be taking place this season?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: orc@usite-next.uchicago.edu (David Parsons)
Subject: Re: Gay Republicans
Summary:  If you're a gay republican, don't even bother to read this.
Organization: Ministry of Skritching
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 05:06:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.150928.20262@cbfsb.cb.att.com> rcrice@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (roger.w.crice) writes:
|Each time I hear the words 'family values' I think I am that
|much closer to tossing my cookies.  If the expression 'family
|values' is not a euphemism for anti-gay bigotry - and lately, 
|I think, the oppression of women - then could somebody please
|explain it to me in partisan terms?

   But it is.  The 'family values' these Nazis speak of so highly
are that a family that hates together sticks together, unless a
member of the family can get some benefit from spying on the others.
If you get everybody to loathe and distrust everything else, then
you can do your little purges pretty much at will.  You'd need a
strong military, of course, and the Republicans have been *very
keen on one of those; teaching children to be stool pigeons is,
naturally, wonderful training for when they're grown up and snitching
to the the KGB^H^H^HDEA.

   Look at the Soviet Union.  *Those* are the family values that
the Republicans idolise (excepting, of course, the lip service to
a "free market", which is enough bread and circuses for many people.)

|Saying one believes in 
|family values is like saying you believe in clouds:  Who 
|doesn't?  
|
|Do these people think all of America is so stupid that they 
|can't see through this?  Are they? 

   Yes, they do.  They're banking on it - fascism can't florish if
people actually *think.

                __
  david parsons \/ orc@pell.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: soc.motss