From: judi@wam.umd.edu (Jay T Stein -- 668, Neighbor of the Beast)
Subject: Re: You had to encourage me... (formerly: Let me state my view...)
Originator: judi@rac1.wam.umd.edu
Organization: _Washington _Area _Clinic _Defense _Task _Force, Washington, D.C.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 07:07:53 GMT

What: <1993Jan11.202606.18888@ncsu.edu>
Who:  jjprice@eos.ncsu.edu (JEFFREY JAMES PRICE)

>>  = Jay T Stein - you can't prove otherwise; it must be me
>>> = JEFFREY JAMES PRICE

>>>1. A fetus is a human being were as life begins at conception...you
>>>   can't prove otherwise so it must be true.
>>
>>Elvis is alive on Mars.  There are exactly 223 chemical elements.  You will
>>be hit by a crazed toddler on a tricycle in your lifetime.  In a previous
>>life, I was Paul Revere's horse (gratuitous straight line to see who will
>>sink to the cheap shot).  Cats have souls.  You can't prove otherwise, so...
>>
>>Really, Mr. Price, where *are* you coming from here?
>
>Every one thought Columbus was crazy because he thought the world was
>round and you think I'm crazy because life begins at conception.

No.  Listen carefully:  I do not think you're crazy because you think life
begins at conception.  I think you're crazy because you consider "you can't
prove otherwise so it must be true" to be a valid logical construct.

>BTW Elvis is alive.

This is another reason I think you're crazy... (half-smiley)

>Are you willing to kill 1.5 million people based on your 
>reasoning...I sure as hell aren't...

Why are you so willing to usurp the rights of an entity *known* to be a
person -- the pregnant woman -- because of an entity whose personhood
is not determined -- the fetus?

>each fetus is a unique individual
>and has a unique genetic code(twins are twins) that will not
>happen again it is an endangered species and 1.5 million are being made
>extinct each year.

Point one: sperm and ova are unique as well.  Why the bias?
Point two: "Extinct" has no meaning when applied to individuals, but since
           you insist on using this ploy I'll gladly play along:  Sperm
           and ova are just as unique, so in masturbating you are destroying
           unique genetic codes by the hundreds of thousands.

>>>2. A person has a right to do whatever they wish so long as they don't
>>>   infringe upon another person...now the baby is using the body of the
>>>   mother we can say it may be removed...BUT...this will result in the
>>>   death of the fetus. So the lesser of the 2 evils must be followed and
>>>   the life of the fetus is more imp. than the choice of the mother...in
>>>   the event of life threating situation both lives are equal and it is 
>>>   then a personal choice.
>>
>>Define "life-threatening."  Immediate, 100% chance of death?  50%?  10?
>>And besides, you have not established personhood of the fetus.
>>
>A preknown condition or one that arises during pregnancy that may cripple-
>kill the mother and is not due to the normal strains of childbirth.

Pregnancy in and of itself carries a risk of death, and that risk is an
order of magnitude greater than the risk during an abortion performed before
the 12th week of pregnancy.  Knoowing this, how would you amend your
previous point?

>>[Conclusion based on faulty premises deleted]

>>>   Somalia OK because we are trying to save
>>>   lives even if we do end up killing a few...
>>
>>So you're in favor of killing babies born without a brain stem for organs,
>>then, since by actively killing one baby we can give life to many more?
>>
>If the baby has no brain than apparently it cannot function as a human 
>and lacks the ability to develop a brain yes I would agree.

One point for consistency, although you would find quite a bit of
disagreement among your pro-life copatriots.

>>>   The same with abortion of course
>>>   a few women will die perfoming illegal
>>>   abortions but we will save many more.
>>
>>Thus proving that fetuses are more important than women.
>>
>no a fetus is not more important just As important.

You're willing to let women die so that fetuses can be saved.  Doesn't
sound "As important" to me.

[... my flame deleted ...]
--
     _____     __      __               -=* Jay T Stein *=-
   |   |      |  \    /        
   |   |  in  |   |  |               Internet: judi@wam.umd.edu
|__|   |      |__/    \__               GEnie: J.STEIN18

But still I fear and still I dare not laugh at the madman.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion