HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Yet another pathetic Friedman post
Date: 1 Oct 92 10:46:42 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

Michael Friedman (mfriedma@uucp) quoting Harel Barzilai:

>>        [That would make 15.5% of people in poverty Black -- Blacks 
>>        are 12% of the population; hence poverty for Blacks is about 
>>        30% higher than the (already abysmal) national average. 
>>        --Harel] 
> 
> Actually, that would make you a mathematical illiterate.
>  
> If these numbers were true the poverty level for blacks would be .033%
> compared to a national average of .025%.  The poverty rate for blacks
> would be .008% higher than the national average.
> 
> You are taking a percent of a percent, something that is
> not meaningful in this context.

Think before you post, Mr. Friedman. It is you who is having the
problems with statistical literacy. 

Let's accept Harel's figures of 15.5% and 12%. If we compare the
chance of being poor for two random individuals drawn from the
population, one black, and one race-unspecified, we find precisely
that the black person's chance of being in the poor population is
higher than that of the average person by a factor of 15.5/12 or
approximately 1.292. 

In other words, if you are black, your chance of being poor is 30%
higher than average. What's ``not meaningful'' about this?

Your figure of .008% has a somewhat less useful interpretation. It
represents this same relationship in terms of the ``extra'' numbers
of poor black people (over what there would be if the black poverty
rate equalled the average) as a proportion of the total black
population, and is therefore dependent on the absolute level of
poverty -- which, as you pointed out yourself, is ridiculously
underestimated (presumably a typo) in Harel's original post. A more
realistic guess at the poverty rate (say 15%) will raise your
figure to 4.5%.

There is nothing invalid in taking a percentage of a percentage, or
a proportion of a proportion. 

Brendan

Brendan Halpin                    Email: HALPIN@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK
Nuffield College                  Phone: +44 865 278642
Oxford OX1 1NF
United Kingdom
Xref: sparky alt.activism:16940 ba.transportation:2408
From: bm@bike2work.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Michel)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,ba.transportation
Subject: SAVE THE VALLEY OF THE ASPE
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:42:30 GMT
Reply-To: bm@bike2work.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Michel)
Distribution: alt
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bike2work


/** en.alerts: 14.0 **/
** Topic: PRESS RELEASE : Protecting a valle **
** Written  6:23 pm  Sep 29, 1992 by gn:wardd in cdp:en.alerts **

PRESS RELEASE

JNM-Belgium (Jeugdbond voor Natuurstudie en Milieubescherming vzw)
Kortrijksepoortstraat  140
B-9000  GENT
BELGIUM
Phone : +32-91-23 47 81
Fax   : +32-91-23 28 05


INTERNATIONAL ACTION DAY TO SAVE THE VALLEY OF THE ASPE (FRENCH PYRENEES).

STRICT EMBARGO UNTILL WEDNESDAY 30 SEPTEMBER, 14.00 H (BRUSSELS TIME).

Wednesday 30 september at 14.00 h, 20 campaigners of J.N.M.-Belgium
(Jeugdbond voor Natuurstudie en Milieubescherming) will dig a tunnel in the
garden of E.C.-commissioner Karel van Miert.

This action is a protest against :

1. the E.C. support for the building of a motorway and a tunnel through the
valley of the Aspe in the French Pyrenees (E7 from Pau to Saragossa)

2. the environmental disastrous traffic policy of the commission of K. Van
Miert

The valley of the Aspe is one of the last wild valleys in the Pyrenees and
has a unique fauna and flora. In the area live 15 of the 20 remaining brown
bears.

At the same time, there will be actions to protect the valley of the Aspe in
Germany, France and the U.K.

Interested journalists can contact the JNM-office (ask for Thierry Wernaers).

Please send this press release to news agencies in your country.
** End of text from cdp:en.alerts **
--
Bill Michel			
bm@eng.sun.com		These views are my own, not Sun's.
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.desert-storm,alt.politics.clinton
From: cs911461@ariel.yorku.ca (CHRISTIAN D. ARMOUR)
Subject: Eat shit and die??
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 00:16:02 GMT

In article <14083.2acc9ef4@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.174628.18196@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>, sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes:
>> Bush wasn't even in office when alot of the US help went to Iraq.
>> 
>> I'm not saying it was a good thng, but think about what was going on
>> during the 80's--Hussien or the Ayatollah(sp)--it would have been great
>> to not deal with either one of them but it was the lesser of two evils
>> 
>> Simon
>> 
>
>Let's see, Bush became VP under Reagan in 1980 right? Lessee, the Iran-Iraq
>war began in October 1980. Nope, Bush wasn't in office (and clearly didn't
>know anything about it either :).
>
>Republiclone slime. Eat shit and die.
>
>-Garrett


Gee whizz!  That's not very nice.  Getting vociferous is cool but
one should always be polite.


C. Armour-Kidson
cs911461@ariel.yorku.ca

Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: dliebman@terapin.com (David Liebman)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Fuel & costs of production
Date: 26 Sep 92 00:44:46 PST
Organization: BBS

In article <1992Sep24.172705.4342@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu
(Stupendous Man) writes:
>In article <Bv31Ar.EtE@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
>writes:
>> 
>>   Sorry, the US is just inefficient with oil; there's no nice political or
>>   philosophical way to whitewash this over.
>
>
>       Not that we shouldn't, or can't be more efficient, just that our
>geography necessitates more travel for some things.
>

in what way does our geography necessitate that, for example, toothpaste
which is produced in ohio ends up on supermarket shelves in new mexico?

ah, yes.  it is those vast stretches of conglomerate.

-dave
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Roe v. Wade for Men
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:11:29 GMT
Organization: HP Western Response Center

The National Center For Men is preparing to litigate the equivalent of Roe V. 
Wade for *men's reproductive rights*. Below are excerpts of a letter written by 
Joe Appelbaum, the litigation chairman for the National Center For Men.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Begin Excerpts <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Fighting For Fairness and Equal Rights
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                       Post Office Box 317
                                                       Brooklyn, New York 11240
                                                       Telephone (718) 845-2010

	We are attempting to overturn very sexist laws which deny men the
right to decline fatherhood in this age of "reproductive freedom" for women.

	A man's life, future and wallet are currently in the hands of his 
female partner if she gets pregnant and decides to have the child contrary
to his wishes. He is denied any say in the matter. He is not allowed to say, 
"I do not choose to be a father and I don't want to be held financially
responsible for this child." We are going to petition the federal courts to
permit a man, prior to fetal viability, to go into a family court and 
relinquish rights and responsibilities to the unborn child. We want a legal
"right to choose," too.

	Our attorney, Robert Smith, has agreed to take this case "pro bono,"
but we still have to cover his expenses. I, myself, have pledged $200 for
this case (I was a paternity suit victim). If you have been, too, there is
no need for me to emphasize the importance of this lawsuit. If you haven't
been (yet), try to imagine a deceptive and uncaring woman taking you to 
court to force you to support a child, when you were never given a choice.
The financial consequences alone could total over $100,000 for twenty-one
years or more.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><> End Excerpts <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

We can use this filing as an opportunity to raise America's consciousness 
about men's lack of reproductive rights. We would like to maximize media 
interest by simultaneously petitioning the federal courts in other districts 
nationwide. If you would like to join us, you can

	1.) Distribute this letter far and wide.

	2.) Help find an attorney in your area who will file papers in federal 
	    court.
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: NLNS: CHRISTIAN IDENTITY (UPDATED VERSION)
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:03:23 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <9209301854.AA02095@igc.apc.org>, nlns@igc.apc.org (New Liberation News Service) writes:
> /* Written  6:18 pm  Sep 29, 1992 by nlns in cdp:nlns.news */
> /* ---------- "NLNS Packet 3.2 *** 9/28/92" ---------- */
> 
> CHRISTIAN IDENTITY, SURVIVALISM & THE POSSE COMITATUS
> Chip Berlet, NLNS


	[text deleted]

> 	But as Zeskind of the Center for Democratic Renewal explains, 
> "Gritz's standard stump speech is an amalgam of themes popular 
> among white supremacists and others on the far right: the Federal 
> Reserve System (FED) is unconstitutional and should be abolished 
> and a vast conspiracy of "internationalists" are taking over the 
> world." Pastor Pete Peters, a leading proponent of the Christian

	Perhaps you would also like to explain Gritz's appeal to many
on the left.  Even more importantly, possibly you would offer us a
defense of the Federal Reserve System.  

	The FED, as it is known, is a failed institution.  Whether it
is a "conspiracy" or not, it has lead this country into bankruptcy.
Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were all opposed
to the concept of cental banking.  I suppose they were far right-wing
fringe nuts, huh?

	Come on, let's hear it for the FED.  Tell us why Gritz is so
stupid on this one. 
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: bobh@troy.uucp (22131-hettmansperger)
Subject: Re: The Decline of America: "Strong Family Values" (IV)
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 20:49:46 GMT

In article <1ane92INNh0n@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
>
>It occurs to me that this article is a good example of something
>that I have long felt was an intellectual failure of liberalism.
>Liberals tend to identify a real social problem (e.g. lack of adequate
>health care) and then propose a plausible sounding solution (e.g.
>public health insurance). Without bothering to actually win the debate
>over whether their preferred program is actually the best (or even an
>adequate) way to address the underlying concern, they then shift the 
>terms of the discussion so that THE FAILURE TO ADOPT THEIR PROPOSED
>SOLUTION becomes identified as a social problem in itself.
>

This is a very astute observation.  I'd only like to add one thing: that
this behavior is in no way limited to liberalism, but simply another negative
by-product of platform politics - especially the US's particular two-party
breed.

-Bob
Xref: sparky alt.activism:16922 alt.activism.d:3423
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.activism.d
Subject: You gotta know who your friends are
From: ivler@mdcbbs.com (J.M. Ivler    ivler@mdcbbs.com)
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:57:23 GMT
Organization: M&E (Division of EDS), Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: love

Every once in a while Ross Perot says something worth listening to. In his big 
Larry King interview on Monday Larry asked the same question three times before 
he was able to get Perot to give an "answer" and the answer given is most 
likely on of the best I have heard to date...

Q: What about Clinton and the draft and Bush and Iran-Contra.

A: What we have is a decision made by an 18 year old boy some time ago, which 
shouldn't matter and the decisions made by a mature adult, a sitting 
Vice-President, the man in charge of counter-terrorism, which is a quastion 
that should be answered. But in neither instance is this important as an issue 
in the election of the President.

Now, this isn't verbatum, but it is my interpetation of what I heard. Mr. Perot 
may not be leaning to Clinton, but the above shows that he is no friend of 
Georges.

jmi
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.desert-storm,alt.politics.clinton
From: pdchapin@unix.amherst.edu (PAUL D CHAPIN)
Subject: Re: **** ANOTHER COVER-UP - Please read this... ****
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:47:05 GMT

Just a quick comment.  Several writers in this thread have stated that the
Gulf War was a declared war.  That is not technically true.  The congressional
authorization was not worded as a formal declaration of war.

We are not likely to see the U.S. in a declared war anytime soon.  Some
of the provisions of the rules of war, which apply during a declared war,
are no longer practical.  For example, soldiers of beligerents who enter
neutral nations must be interned.  This would put U.S. troops in places
like South Korea and Europe in an awkward position. Probably time to 
rewrite the rules.

Xref: sparky alt.activism:17112 alt.desert-storm:1869 alt.politics.clinton:8300
From: mccullou@cae.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.desert-storm,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: **** ANOTHER COVER-UP - Please read this... ****
Date: 3 Oct 92 15:37:44 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

In article <14084.2acc9fe4@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.174315.17999@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>, sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes:
>> Listen--I saw the photos from the 1988 gas attack on the Kurdish
>> villages--I was sickened by that like everyone else.
>> 
>> Simon
>> 
>> 
>
>But being a blind supporter of Ray-Gun and Fearless Leader you turned your
>head and looked away, ignoring it. Lets face it, the Republiclones armed
>Saddam, they are at total fault and bear total responsibility for the
>whole thing happening in the first place. When the Little Dictator stopped
>cowtowing to Bush and started acting on his own initiative THEN it was
>time to stop them.
>
>The problem with these Republiclones is that they are only concerned with
>immediate consequences, they never look farther than their nose to see
>what it is that they are really doing. Fools.
>
Sounds like normal politics, and what everyone does, regardless of party
affiliation.  Face it, the US is very short-sighted.

:)M^2
>
>
>
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.desert-storm,alt.politics.clinton
From: sdr57@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: **** ANOTHER COVER-UP - Please read this... ****
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:30:06 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.024701.21604@news.columbia.edu> egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) writes:
>
>We've know that Hussein was evil for quite some time, and yet Bush had
>consorted with him for years before the invasion.
>
>
We knew the Soviet Union was evil for quite some time, and
yet many U.S. Presidents consorted with the leaders of the
USSR. Is it your position that we should shoot anyone we
disapprove of? That would certainly make the world a quieter
place (after a few very noisy days). Unfortunately, it is
not always practical to "send in the marines" as it seems
you would have us do. Sometimes you have to go for peaceful
coexistence, even if you don't like what's going on. It isn't
right, of course - it would be much more satisfying if we
could just send Rambo in and let him clean things up - but
that's the real world for you - unfair from the get-go.
******************************************************************************
Renegade academician. They're a dangerous breed when they go feral,
academics are...a chemist, too.
		    -(James P. Blaylock in "Lord Kelvin's Machine")

My organization hasn't agreed with any of my opinions so far, and
I doubt they'll start now.

Stanley "Ya nee speon" Roberts

Xref: sparky alt.activism:16894 alt.individualism:5607
From: brown@pollux (Daniel Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.individualism
Subject: Re: An Urgent Appeal From GREENPEACE
Keywords: An Urgent Appeal From GREENPEACE
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:41:53 GMT
Followup-To: alt.individualism
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Georgia

In article <1992Sep28.222039.2496@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> jad@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (John DiNardo) writes:
>
>        Excerpts of  AN URGENT APPEAL FROM GREENPEACE
>
> [excerpts of an urgent appeal from Greenpeace]
>
>          [Transcription and appeal by John DiNardo]

Why was this crossposted to alt.individualism?  Greenpeace, being an environ-
mentalist group, is not noted for its concern for individuals (at least not
human ones).

-- 
Daniel W. Brown (brown@pollux.cs.uga.edu)
Xref: sparky alt.activism:17071 alt.activism.d:3476
From: strat@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: The Decline of America: The Police-State
Date: 2 Oct 1992 16:19:51 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>Isn't it fun to compare the US with countries that have lots of extrajudicial
>imprisonments (and killings) that don't show up in jail statistics?

Are you claiming that the American statistics show everything?

Stratocaster
-- 
	   Steve Davis (I'm a student, not a spokesperson!)
      strat@cis.ksu.edu - Kansas State University - Manhattan KS
				   
Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us form ourselves. - Rush
Newsgroups: alt.activism,soc.culture.latin-america,misc.activism.progressive
From: sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.desert-storm,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: **** ANOTHER COVER-UP - Please read this... ****
Date: 4 Oct 92 03:16:36 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio


I didn't "look the other way" as you put it, concerning the Iraqi gas
attacks in 1988.  The media covered it but it faded quickly, despite the
severity of it. Time magazine had two articles on it and that was it.
Now, if it was such an indictment against Bush, I figure the media would
have harperd on it indefinitely.

Now this is for everyone: You may disagree with what I say, but at least I
don't tell any of you to "Eat s*** and die", like Garret has done towards me.
I keep the flaming to a minimum, and have yet to have hurled obscenities at
anyone.                    Simon
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.desert-storm,alt.politics.clinton
From: bobh@troy.uucp (22131-hettmansperger)
Subject: Re: **** ANOTHER COVER-UP - Please read this... ****
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 15:21:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.212747.17042@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes:
>
>I didn't know the death of enemy soldiers in a war was such a tragedy.
>Considering what they did to the people of Kuwait, why are we upset??
>

Because they are human beings, and somehow it is disgusting to think that
we killed more people than we had to or that we killed them more brutally
than we had to (at least to me it is).

-Bob


Xref: sparky alt.activism:17175 alt.desert-storm:1889 alt.politics.clinton:8490
From: baldwin@csservera.scs.usna.navy.mil (J.D. Baldwin)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.desert-storm,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: **** ANOTHER COVER-UP - Please read this... ****
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:56:06 GMT
Followup-To: alt.flame,misc.test
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dep't., U.S. Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD
In-reply-to: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu's message of 02 Oct 92 19:11:48 -0400

I'm violating my policy again.  Dammit.

vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu ("Garrett") writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.174628.18196@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>,
>sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes:
>> Bush wasn't even in office when alot of the US help went to Iraq.
>> 
>> I'm not saying it was a good thng, but think about what was going on
>> during the 80's--Hussien or the Ayatollah(sp)--it would have been great
>> to not deal with either one of them but it was the lesser of two evils
>
>Let's see, Bush became VP under Reagan in 1980 right? Lessee, the Iran-Iraq
>war began in October 1980. Nope, Bush wasn't in office (and clearly didn't
>know anything about it either :).
>
>Republiclone slime. Eat shit and die.

I am making the assumption that it matters deeply to you whether Bush
was in office at the start of the Iran-Iraq war, since you went to the
trouble of posting a near-contentless emotional and personal epithet
on the subject.

Your ignorance is amazing but, I hope, not invincible.

Pat Buchanan tells me that viewing a quote from the Constitution of
the United States has the same effect on a liberal as sunlight on
Dracula, so I'm sure the following doesn't look familiar:

XXth Amendment:

   Sect. 1. The terms of the President and Vice President shall end
   at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and 
   Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in 
   which such terms would have ended if this article had not been 
   ratified . . .

Now, try again:  *who* was president in October 1980?  In case you're
a bigger idiot than your original post indicated, a clue (your first?)
might be:  "Who is president in October 1992?  The winner of the 1992
election?"

P.S.  I may well be slime, but I'm neither the Republican nor -clone 
      variety.  [The Pat Buchanan crack was a *joke*, son.]
--
 From the catapult of:              |+| "If anyone disagrees with anything I
   _,_  J. D. Baldwin, Comp Sci Dept|+| say, I am quite prepared not only to
 _|70|___:::)=}-  U.S. Naval Academy|+| retract it, but also to deny under
 \      /   baldwin@usna.navy.mil   |+| oath that I ever said it." --T. Lehrer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xref: sparky alt.activism:16848 misc.kids:24559 alt.flame:13092 alt.culture.usenet:871