From: mayne@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: It'd Be A Shame
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:11:28 GMT
Reply-To: mayne@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1992Apr6.012054.21412@uwm.edu> dpfabie@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David Paul Fabie) writes:

>The BSA does not discriminate on the basis of religion,
>we discriminate on the basis of a lack of religion.

I submit that discimination on the basis of "lack of religion" is
still discriminaion on the basis of religion, as intended in the
U.S. Constitution and the United Way Charter. The latter, at least
should apply to the BSA as a United Way supported agency. Theists
are quite happy to assert that atheism is a religion requiring just
as much faith as believing in God when that argument suits their
purposes, and to claim in court that secular humanism is a religion
if that can advance their book banning.

> All that the BSA 
>asks is that its members hold a belief in God, whether that god is Allah
>or Jesus or the great blue crystal in the corner of your bedroom makes
>no difference.

If I were a theist of any traditional religion I would consider this
blasphemy. Doesn't it devalue the concept of God if it makes no difference
if your belief is in the God of Christians, Jews, or Muslims (whether or not
those are considered the same) or the great blue crystal in the corner of
your bedroom? I have never known a faithful Christian or Muslim who would
say that it makes no difference. If the concept is so flexible as to be
virtually meaningless why insist on the word "God" at all? Let God be God
and people's beliefs be whatever they are.

> The idea that there is a higher power to which we as
>beings of concious, were created by.  That's all.
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

For the umpteenth time, I point out that the notion of a creator
is specifically against the teachings of some religions, including
Buddhism, which the BSA appears to consider acceptable.* The Buddha
is not in any sense a God, though this seems to be hard thing for
adherents of theistic religions to comprehend. Thus by accepting Buddhists
and insisting on belief in God the BSA is spreading their own ignorance and
ethnocentrism, in contradiction of their stated goals of promoting
understanding. Doesn't understanding include finding out what others really
believe, rather than applying your own concepts to them?

Another stated goal is that boys should be faithful to whatever their
religion is. Right Understanding is fundamental to Buddhism (the first part
of the Noble Eightfold Path). Thus by promoting the false idea of a creator
(false according to Buddhism) they are harming the religion of Buddhist
children. I believe that they are acting more out of ignorance than malice
in this, but it is a problem either way. Furthermore it sure looks like
willful ignorance since no one chooses to even acknowledge this point, and
even a cursory investigation of religions would confirm it. I am
sure there are examples from other religions, but I use Buddhism because
I know it first hand.

* I repeat my request for information on the requirements for the
BSA religious award for Buddhists and the content of BSA literature
on the subject. I think a summary in the newsgroup might be of interest
to at least a few people besides myself and I would really appreciate
it. Failing that I'd appreciate the titles and prices of relevant
materials and where to order them. (I doubt I'd find them in stock
here in the Bible belt.) Finally I have seen claims that there are
Buddhist scouts. I'd like to hear from some, or their parents or
scout leaders. As a former scout I am hoping that I am either wrong
about the BSA or that it will change, since I'd be happy to have my son
in scouting if this can be done honestly and without him being taught
false things like Buddha=God.

Bill Mayne
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:927 alt.atheism:8468