From: john@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: Quayle on Values:  Where he stands and his background
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 21:52:38 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division, Austin, TX

In article <21353@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
 
|> A person who is deceived is not exercising their free-will.  That is what
|> free-will is all about.  If I lie to you and tell you that your house is
|> on fire and you must give me $500 to put it out (but I won't let you go
|> near your house because it is so dangerous), and you give me $500, you
|> might argue that you did it "of your own free-will".  That would be a
|> stupid argument - but one which the defense attorney would enjoy hearing
|> you make.  I suspect his client would go free.

This doesn't parse.  Is the client you or me?  I certainly couldn't
claim that you took my $500 against my will if I gave it to you
voluntarily.  You might be prosecuted for fraud, but certainly not for
robbery.

|> And?  Are you claiming that a miscarriage isn't somehow a miscarriage?
|> Would you care to claim that a premature child delivered to a mother
|> who had two or more abortions is less likely to suffer the same ill
|> effects as one born to a mother who had never had an abortion?

No.  When you say that a woman who has an abortion is 2 to 3 times as
likely to have a miscarriage, you are making two misrepresentations. 
The first is that this doesn't apply to women who have had exactly one
abortion, and the second is that you exaggerate the risk by including
things that aren't even miscarriages in the 2 to 3 times figure. 
You're always harping about women making informed choices and then you
resort to these false scare tactics.

|> > After twelve weeks, this percentage increases to 22 percent.
|>  
|> Which of course, is a hell of a lot greater than 0.  Like I said, the
|> key word is "uncomplicated."

Of course.  I never said it was zero.  We all know that 2nd trimester
abortions are more dangerous than 1st trimester abortions.  You try to
scare people by saying how dangerous abortions are.  You neglect to
mention that you're talking about 2nd trimester abortions, which only
account for 10-20% of all abortions (depending on what source you
believe), most of which are probably done for health reasons anyway.

|> The great thing about reading everything that you write is that in one
|> posting you say that Planned Parenthood doesn't perform abortions.

The great thing about saving all of my (and your) posts is that I
often catch you lying.  I said that Planned Parenthood didn't perform
abortions in TEXAS, and I was quickly corrected by Daryl.  That's the
great thing about Daryl--he's less interested in "winning" and more
interested in exchanging information.  I never claimed (or even
believed) that PP doesn't perform abortions anywhere.

I interrupt your rhetoric to provide factual information that
contradicts you, and all you can do is build a straw horse and knock
it down.  Typical.

-- 
John Iacoletti    IBM AWD Austin    Internet: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
"Now I laugh and make a fortune off the same ones that I tortured, and the
  world screams, 'Kiss me, son of God'" -- TMBG