HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen)
Subject: Re: Little Changes
Organization: Motorola Panther Project, Chandler, AZ
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:47:31 GMT

In article <4028@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>
>Here is another article I came across regarding human rights
>violations and deaths as a result of the Occupation in the
>Territories:
>
>		Little Changes
>		Daoud Kuttab
>
>
<stuff deleted>

>"In the Gaza Strip, the Israeli army announced that it was removing three
>soldiers from duty pending another investigation.  The soldiers are accused of
>killing a four-year old child.  They had shot at the child's parents' car,
>mistaking it for another which was supposed to be carrying 'wanted
>Palestinians'.

Aren't you forgetting a "little" detail.  The driver of the car had run an 
Israeli roadblock.  I don't recall all the details it was some months ago.
Did he try to run down the soldiers at the checkpoint?  The Father (driver) 
said he got scared when he saw the checkpoint, so that was why he "ran it", or
something along those lines.

As your post typically conveniently "forget" little details as these I suspect
the rest of your post(s) is equally inaccurate.

<stuff deleted>

-- 

>
Ron Feigen
ronf@panther.mot.com
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:45:47 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <XBRgsB1w163w@peewee> peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer) writes:
>
>Some further quotes from your beloved Washington Report:
>
>"We must confront Israel.  We have to face the fact that they may
>become our enemy and be as great a threat to world peace as Saddam
>Hussein." -- Pete McCloskey.
>
>"Since the end of the Second World War, every major crisis in the 
>region has been directly or indirectly connected to the question of
>Palestine." -- Georgetown professor Hisham Sharabi.
>
>With clowns like these running The Washington Report, keep quoting
>them, Anisa.  It undermines your credibility on Middle East issues
>even further.  You're dragging yourself down to the Elghani level.


Phil, I think you made a mistake here.  You say that Mr. Sharabi is
"running The Washington Report" but, infact, you cite him as being
a "Georgetown professor".

Do you have evidence to prove that what Mr. Sharabi says (in his
quote) is not correct?  Can you support your evidence therein?

Thank you.

Anisa

	"We don't live in Israel.  Not at all.  We live in
	Palestinian territory.  It's Israeli occupied."
					Hanan Ashrawi

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Anti-Arab racism on the net
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 23:16:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.052026.5924@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:

>This is the last posting I will make in response to you.  

Wonderful!

>The simple
>fact is that over and over again you have proved yourself to be a liar.

You sound like you graduated from the Elghani School of Debating  --
with Honors.

>(The only other explanation is that you have some sort of psychological
>problem.)  

Nothing like ad-hominem attacks from "historians" who don't like
questions they can't answer.

>You know perfectly well that
>(a) I do not argue that "Palestine was inside what is now Israel".
>    I have said that so many times that I'm thoroughly sick of
>    repeating it.  You know it, liar.

Yeah, yeah.  You've said that Palestine had undefined borders but that
Israel was part of Palestine while most of Jordan was -- well you've
never been able to tell us what it used to be except that you insist
that it sure wasn't Palestine.  

>(b) I have often said that a Palestinian state would ideally include
>    part of Jordan.  You have even quoted me back in your postings,
>    so your refusal to acknowledge it marks you yet again as a liar.

The part between the river and the railroad.  Leaving the vast
majority of Jordan still up for grabs, as if it was never Palestine.
However, you've never been able to tell us what it used to be called
before it was re-named Jordan.

>I strongly suspect that all you are doing is purposefully wasting
>my time so that I have none left for sensible discussion with the
>many sincere posters on this group (including many I disagree with).

Plenty of those, I notice.

I have noticed that almost any article in any thread that suggests
that Palestine and Palestinean Arabs actually come from across the
Jordan River almost invariably gets a followup from Brendan McKay,
disputing it.

>Whatever your motivation, from now on I will treat you as nonexistent.

I will make a considerable effort to ignore you, too, idiot.

>Maybe someone else will be foolhardy enough to respond to your
>ignorant verbal diarrhoea.
>Bye bye, Jake.

Your pseudo-intellectual blather has been particularly unimpressive to
people who have been reading it over a period of months.  For a forum
like tpm, with a wide variety of angles, you have taken an obsession
with Palestine in the beginning and middle of this century and seem
unable to discuss anything on any other area nor to relate any of the
little bit that you do know about to anything else.  Therefore, your
postings are rather amateurish, though your presentation is
sufficiently polished to appear convincing.  Too bad that regulars can
see through you.  Ta ta, Brendan.


-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Answer to Mr John
Date: 7 Oct 92 07:06:31 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Oct5.004852.1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky) writes:
>In article <3911@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>, aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
> 
>> While Kuwait was crying out against the occupation of such a brutal
dictatorship, they were the first to support the occupation of the
land of another people.  They gave money to support Yasir Arafat
>			   ========================================	
and Hafiz Assad's stranglehold on Lebanon while turning its head against
the massacres and the average Palestinian family living in poverty.  I
don't recall how Kuwait supported the intefadah or Palestinian rights
and self-determination.  
>
>	From this I learn that you think that neither Hafiz Assad 
>	nor Yassir Arafat support the average Palestinian family, 
>	the intifadah, or Palestinian rights and self-determination.  

I'm glad that you pointed this out, Noam.  It does look ackward in
how I phrased it.  What I meant was that Kuwait supported Arafat
monetarily and in his role in Lebanon (similar to Assad), *verses* the
average Palestinian family, the intefadeh, and rights and self-
determination of Palestinians as a whole.

>	Just what I thought al along. It's good to agree with you
>	from time to time, Anisa.

Before or after the clarification?

Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 18:36:35 GMT

In article <26614@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.192436.23975@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>=>In article <26595@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>=>>Article in todays "Guardian":
>=>>
>=>>Serbs court Jewish veterrans as 'natural allies'
>=>>.
>=>>The Belgrade government has consistently sought the [Jewish Friendship]
>=>>society's support in the Croation conflict. Statements from the organization
>=>>have lent moral justification to the Serbian cause, while television
>=>>appearances by Mrs. Mandic and composer Enrico Josef - famous for his
>=>>description of Serbs as "celestial people" - have reinforced the belief
>=>>that Jews are Serbs natural allies.
>=>
>=>This is possibly true but I know of no Jew who is buying it.
>
>Well I name two in my posting - what do you want, the Belgrade phone directory?

Well, if you mean Jews who live in Serbia, what excatly you expect them
to do? The Croatians Jews will of course support the Croatian forces.

Jews learned over the ages to bend their heads in the winds of war and
try to please the ruler. They know very well that other behavior will
get them the wrath of the masses.

This is exactly this condition must stop and a Jewsih homeland must be
built!

>===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          Vommen

David.
-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Who are the Canaanites 
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:06:18 GMT

A few months ago there was a question regarding the identity of the
Canaanites and whether they still exist or not. I have come across a book
which I have its Arabic version by Sabitomo Moscati and titled
Anceint Semetic Civilisations.

According to the book, the Torah in the old testements refers to the
Canaanites as the people who lived in Palsetine and the western regions
of Syria including Lebanon. However, archeological evidence found at Ugarit
which is an anceint Pheonician city near Latikiya in Syria indicates
that the Canaanites are the Pheonicians. According to the book the word
Canaan in hebrew directly translates into Phenoecia.

Therefore, the Palestinians, Lebanese, and some Syrians are possible
decendents of the Canaanites or the Pheonicians.

A.Faris
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 14 Oct 92 04:34:33 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Oct13.144202.8139@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:

>##"Since the end of the Second World War, every major crisis in the 
>##region has been directly or indirectly connected to the question of
>##Palestine." -- Georgetown professor Hisham Sharabi.

>#Do you have evidence to prove that what Mr. Sharabi says (in his
>#quote) is not correct?  Can you support your evidence therein?

>Yes. The Iran-Iraq war, the Gulf war, the civil war in Lebanon,
>the massacre of 20,000 people in Hama by Assad, all bear no relation
>to the "question of Palestine". 

You are correct here Danny, it did not have a direct correlation with the
'Palestinian Problem'.  However, I believe Mr. Sharabi's point in his
above statement was with the creation of the various countries in the
Middle East that now exists but didn't prior to WWII.  And because of this,
the conflicts between each country gaining independence and the rivalry for
power and control in the region.  Note that he did say 'directly or
'indirectly'.

Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: michaelp@ifi.uio.no (Michael Schalom Preminger)
Subject: Re: EGYPT: LET MY PEOPLE DIE - we hate Jews !
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:23:58 GMT
Originator: michaelp@vidur.ifi.uio.no


In article <1992Oct16.131015.22483@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
> In article <1992Oct15.220327.21164@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
> >      I'm sick and tired of jumping into conclusions based on mere ASSUMPTIONS 
> > (which were first introduced by Gideon Ehrlich in article 52537 in which he 
> > assumes that Egyptians would rather die than have Jews rescue them.)
> >      If one wants to go ahead and assume, he could come up with very 
> > interesting stories (may be called MYTHS).
> >      Any way, the point is YOU do not know why Egypt have refused Israel's
> > assistance (if that is the case).  But one reason would come to mind is that,
> > from the second day of the quake, it was too late to find any persons alive
> > (after they had rescued that lucky lady).  So why should they require the
> > assistance of teams that would have nothing to do but stand by and be a
> > hurddle. What was left to do was simply clean the rubble and bury the
> > dead; and Egypt would be able to do that.
> > 
> 
> Just to re-introduce a reality check.  This mornings news had
> reports of pulling a man out of the rubble just this morning,
> 82 hours under the collapsed building.
> 
> Any other reasons you care to propose?  Do you really not
> want to do all possible to save the poor people buried
> there?  Every day that passes, more people buried under
> the rubble die.
> 
> Recall, that after the Iran earthquake two years ago, the
> Israelis also offered aid (I think medical assistance)
> and were refused.
> 
> 		Seth Rosenthal
> 
> Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.

I am declined to assume that refusing israeli help is a cynical political desicion
taken by the authorities, where the reason may be prestiege, or some other 
political achievement. Unfortunately governments have done so throughout history.

I would not go that far to conclude that hate towards jews is a reason for that.

We have enough misery in the world. Why produce emotions out of this?


Michael
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Elections in Kuwait
Date: 10 Oct 92 20:37:24 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

>October 6, 1992
>		"Opposition shows gains in Kuwait vote"

	[Article Deleted]

>Thank God the United States supported a war to assist a        
>country where equal rights and democracy would be established, 
>and where freedom and justice for all would be served.	


	After receiving several letters from posters thinking
that I have somehow made a very big mistake in writing this,
I would just like to say:  read with SARCASM.

	No, I haven't been brainwashed by the Mutawein, the
CIA, or the Mossad ...

Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout)
Subject: Re: To Yigal Arens
Organization: The Ohio State University
 <1992Oct14.174748.23804@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:26:42 GMT

     Please let me correct this article because it was missing the name of the
Gideon Ehrlich.

In article 52381 (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:

>In article <1992Oct6.003514.24058@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:

>> Thank you Yigal Arens for shedding the TRUTH, and nothing but
>>the TRUTH. To be fair and unbiased now a days is very hard; and you
>>are unique, Yigal.
>>^^^^^^^^^
>>Thank You     Wa Salam             Khaled Shammout

> Yigal is not Unique.
> His friends to the Marxist underground MAZPEN are still just like
> him.
>
> Gideaon Ehrlich

     Whom do you think I respect more:
           A) a person (such as Yigal) who's overcome prejudice and learned
              to love and repect his enemy (and talk the truth about them);  OR
           B) a person (such as yourself) who always lies about the truth and
              is soaked with hatred?????

     Need I provide you with the answer?

Sorry, Wa Salam
--------------------
Khaled J Shammout
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Very Weak Zionist Claims Over Palestine
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 23:20:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.220604.28028@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au  writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.141543.1449@bony1.bony.com>, jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>|> In article <1992Oct1.215117.13897@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au  writes:
>|> 
>|> >My understanding, in Syria they are citizens and have equal civil rights,
>|> >except they are not allowed to serve in the army. They are even allowed to
>|> >have the Sabath on Saturday.
>|> 
>|> Such enlightenment!  Sabbath on Saturday.  As opposed to what?
>|> Sabbath on Friday??
>  
> What is your problem now?. Is this too much for your mind, at least they
> recognise their right for that day. The universities even go out of their
> way not to schedule exams on the Sabath.
> 
> It appears to me that my original response was not consumed easily by Mr. Livni
> since no myths or propaganda can be generated out of it.
> 
> A.Faris

Here's Mr. Backwards demanding that we give him a Nobel Prize for
being able to add 1 + 1, because in his home town, no on else could
figure it out.  I won't award you a prize for acting with the decency
that would be commonplace in more civilized countries so don't bother
asking for it.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 01:52:03 GMT

aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:

#I believe Sandra Rayes posted these figures not too long ago.  It was
#from the Washington Report, and dated July 1992:
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Isn't this the same violently anti-Israeli rag that Arf keeps quoting?
If he says its reliable, I say its bullsh*t.

#	DEATHS						1,045

I remember someone posting about 800, + about the same number of
Palestinians killed by Palestinians. I would also note that the
very large majority of the IDF related deaths occured at the
beggining of the riots and that there has been a sharp decrease
since.

BTW, the murder of "informers" by the Hamas etc is no secret, it
was even sanctioned by Faisal Husseiny.

Any estimate for Israeli deaths? 

#	EXPLOSIONS					   66

What explosions? I am not trying to be sarcastic, I just don't
know what this means.

#	HOUSE DEMOLITIONS/SEALINGS			2,154

I won't rule out this number a-priory but it looks like an
awful exaggeration. Can anyone come with a different source
and/or estimate to the accuracy of this number?


-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: arnaud@csd.uwo.ca (Arnaud Lallouet)
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 21:39:28 GMT

	While browsing through this newsgroup, I fell upon this pearl.

In talk.politics.mideast #61007  dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes

>
>jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
>#dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>
>	[ .... ]
>
>#Well there you go again, the mysterious elastic time-scale. The Jews have
>#a right to settle in Israel because some Jews lived there 2000 years ago,
>
>I never said that. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "right
>over a country". I don't believe the British have a "right" to be
>in Britain, the Danes don't have a "right" to be in Denmark, etc. 
>Israel was founded just like any other country was founded. Many
>
>	[ ... ]
>Sorry to dissapoint you.
>
>-Danny Keren.

Gee ! Is this the "wandering Jew syndrome" still at work ? Do you 
found a country just the way you would pitch your tent while 
camping outdoors ?

Holy Cow !

Arnaud 
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:21091 soc.rights.human:3895 talk.religion.misc:18225
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:10:16 GMT

jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
#dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
###
###Obviously, to point out that those posting condemnations of the Serbian
###actions do not speak for the whole Jewish community, and to highlight
###the natural affinity of the proponents of "ethnic cleansin".
##
##I see. So now *Jews* (in general) are 'proponents of "ethnic cleansin"'.
#
#Only the most tortured mind could deduce that I claimed that Jews in general
#are proponents of ethnic cleansing.

??? 

I think it was a very clear goal of your poster.

## When someone from a country which
##has nothing to do with the middle east conflict wants to post, sure,
##that's fine.
#
#First of all, it appears that you are assuming that I am a) British, and
#b) neither Jewish nor Muslim. Secondly, I am amused to see that you believe
#that Britain has nothing to do with the Middle East conflict. 

I thought you were Scottish. And I don't think Britain currently
has anything to do with the middle-east conflict, not more than
it has to do with the political situation in other old British
colonies, like India.

##filth against the Jews and Israel, and contain highly insulting
##descriptions of Jews, I get suspicious. Get it?
#
#I might "Get it" if I recognised any of this as fact, which I don't.
#You're pretty keen on launching these pathetic ad hominem attacks, but
#I've yet to see you attempt to refute any of the documented postings 
#I've made, 

You just don't get it, right? Your posters are completely one-sided,
and consist solely of filth that you can dig up about Israel in
particular and Jews in general. It is not only the accuracy of
the sources (which at least in one case was flawed) but also
your choice of material. There are (roughly) two sides to the
mid-east conslict, and yet you choose to sling mud only at one
of them, while there a whole stinking pile of mud that fits
the other side as well. To me, it looks suspicious. The arrogant
and insulting tone of your posters doesn't help.

## So I am asking you
##again: why do you post? Not a specific poster; in general. What
##do you want to acheive?
#
#Gee Danny, I'm trying to achieve world peace, brotherly love and a
#state of beatific enlightenment.

Smirk, but your inability to answer the question is telling.

-Danny Keren.