HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brian@coombs.anu.edu.au (Brian)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Low Altitude Training
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:25:51 GMT
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University


From brian@coombs.anu.edu.au (Brian)

macklin@garnet.berkeley.edu (Macklin Burnham) writes:

>>>From craig.patten@f824.n680.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Craig Patten)
>>>hh> from flying at 200 feet that it takes considerable training
>>>hh> for pilots to fly effectively at the lower altitude, yet only two air
>>>hh> forces in the world train for it [the USAF not among them].
>>>
>>>Which air forces are these?

>Well, two years ago I wangled a VIP tour of SAC's 15 Air Force, and while
>we were inspecting a B52H at March AFB, the AC told me that they were
>currently practicing missions below 200 feet. That's right, in B52's.He
>said it was great fun.

	USAF B52's currently operate on low level training missions over
Northern Australia from Guam.  Considering the anecodotes coming out, I'll
weigh in with one about the B52.  Whilst on a joint ANZUS exercise (Kangaroo
81) in northern Queensland, I was on air-piquet duty on top of a hill 
overlooking the Brigade Mainenance Area (such duties were necessary due to
limited radar coverage).  Whilst dozing, the other soldier who I was on
duty with excitedly woke me up to watch a B52 pass, below us at about an
altitude of about 50 feet along the ground below.  It was a stately sight
indeed and one I cherish to this day, watching her do stately turns, 
dodging hills.



--
Brian Ross__________________________________________________________________
	"If it is dangerous to suppose that government is always right, it
will sooner or later be awkward for public administration if most people
suppose that it is always wrong."______________________________J.K.Galbraith
From: lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM (Rick Lafford)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Rutan: PondRacer and MudFighter
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:13:05 GMT
Organization: AT&T


From Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM>



>I have not heard anything recently about Rutan's MUDFIGHTER.
>Is there any recent news about this as yet homeless fighter/
>ground attack plane?

The Mudfighter (ARES) completed ground firing tests on the 30mm cannon
system (not a chaingun) a couple of months ago. I suspect that they
are in the middle of air to mud ordinance release test now and that
these will continue thru the summer. There is still no customer for
this aircraft but given the simplicity and capabilities, it seems a
natural for some of the third world countries. I wonder though, will
the US government allow it to be exported.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Lafford
Eastman Kodak Co.
lafford@serum.kodak.com
============================================================================
From: malc@pyramid.cs.unr.edu (Malcolm L. Carlock)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Present locations of surviving German WWII U-Boats?
Date: 15 Apr 92 04:32:31 GMT
Followup-To: sci.military
Organization: Xinaian Tourist Bureau


From malc@pyramid.cs.unr.edu (Malcolm L. Carlock)


I recently watched "Murphy's War" (a Peter O'Toole WWII film from 1971) for
the first time.  If the German U-Boat in that film wasn't a real one, they
sure could have fooled me.

Anyone know who owned/owns that U-Boat (if it was indeed real)?  Anyone
know the disposition of the other surviving U-Boats from WWII??

As I recall, the Allies originally divvied up the surviving U-Boats in some
"mutually agreeable" fashion.  The U-505 (the capture of which is described
in Adm. Dan Gallery's "Eight Bells") ended up as an above-ground display at
the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry.
--
Malcolm L. Carlock                      Internet:  malc@unr.edu
                                        UUCP:      unr!malc
                                        BITNET:    malc@equinox
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: "Daniel L. McDonald" <danmcd@cs.arizona.edu>
Subject: Planes that carry the Exocet
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:07:24 GMT


From "Daniel L. McDonald" <danmcd@cs.arizona.edu>

With what little spare time I have lately, I'm trying to construct on Strike
Jets (an air combat simulator I've mentioned before) a scenario involving
an Exocet missile attack on a U.S. Navy ship.  I'm looking for a few details
that I'm not aware of.  These details mostly pertain to the (French-built?!?)
Exocet missile.  I'd like to know what sort of planes carry it (or could be
modified to carry it), what its range is, and what countries (Libya?!?) own
them.

Thanks for answering another silly question from someone who hasn't sprung
for a Jane's book yet.

---
Dan McDonald    |Internet: danmcd@cs.arizona.edu, UUCP: ..!uunet!arizona!danmcd
U. of Arizona   |BITNET: danmcd%cs.arizona.edu@arizona.BITNET
Computer Science|     "I was lined up for glory
1st year Grad.  |      But the tickets sold out in advance." - Rush (N. Peart)

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: <AI4CPHYW%MIAMIU.BITNET@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: F86??? Spotted in Ohio
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 03:31:44 GMT


From <AI4CPHYW%MIAMIU.BITNET@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>


Hey Netters:

I was out today (Saturday) working on my car and I saw what I think
was a F86 fighter.  It had cruciform wings (they were at a 90 degree
angle to the fuselage, not swept at all) with a large football shaped
object at each wing tip.  It had a single tail with control surfaces
at the top of the rudder.  And it was jet powered, but with no visible
engine (the engine was contained within the fuselage I guess). I got
a pretty good look at it because the pilot made several relatively low
passes over the town.

Am I right with my plane identification?  Do any of you know of
someone who owns such a plane in this area? (I am assuming that,
since the F86 was a Korean era fighter, this plane is no longer in
active service) (BTW: I am in Southwestern Ohio: Cincinnati, Dayton,
and Indianapolis are all close by air)  I don't think that the plane
was part of an air show, the pilot made several passes over the town
like he was just flying for the fun of it.

I am just curious about the plane.  If you have any information, or
if I blew my ID, please let me know.

Thanks
                      -Alec D. Isaacson
                       AI4CPHYW @ miamiu.acs.muohio.edu
                       isaacson @ rogue.acs.muohio.edu (NeXt Mail)
                       Miami University, Oxford, OH
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you blow chunks and she comes back she's yours . . . If you hurl
and she doesn't come back, it was never meant to be."
                        -Words to live by from Wayne and Garth

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: EACZ02XE%GRTHEUN1.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: turbines for carriers
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:24:13 GMT


From EACZ02XE%GRTHEUN1.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu

in reply to the carrier propulsion issue..(LM2500  turbines)

here is another point to think of:
when the GREEK navy bought frigates recently,this point was raised.
CODOG , CODAG or CODAD for the propulsion system?
well TURBINES=less volume per horsepower+greater consumption of fuel+
              +more fuel to be carried(greater fuel tank volume)
     DIESEL  =more volume per horsepower+lesser fuel consumed+
              +less fuel needed(smaler fuel tank volume)
it seems to me that it is a matter of SPACE and CONSUMPTION. a delicate
balance indeed!
From: Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com (Steven.Schultz)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: US SMG (Was Re: US Navy's request for Beretta M9 cancellation...)
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:28:31 GMT
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.


From Steven.Schultz <Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com>

Yeah, I noted my mistake. Have been making a lot of stupid ones
lately. Sorry, they are SAWs.

-- 
Steven.Schultz@mixcom.com
Leader, Military and Arms topic, Hobbies Conference, Exec-PC BBS (414)789-4210

"Eternal peace lasts only until the next war."-Old Russian Proverb
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re:  Low Altitude Training
Date: 15 Apr 92 04:46:15 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality


From cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)

In article <1992Apr11.002758.19886@cbnews.cb.att.com> chf0@newshost.gte.com (Curtis Fennell) writes:
...
>Zipping across the desert at 400+kts at 40-50 ft is something everyone
>should get to try.

But it's no fun if you're on the ground. Back in the early 70s, I had a
Forest Service fire lookout in south-eastern Oregon (Drake Peak, near
Lakeview, to be precise). The terrain there is part desert, part forested
mountains. Apparently, this was a favored training area for low-altitude
flying--fighters would come flying _up_ the side of the mountain I was on,
and "hop" over the top. Clearance? I dunno--they always managed to miss the
antenna on the roof...barely.

This was actually rather scary--there was absolutely no warning--unless I
just happened to be looking down in the direction the plane was coming
from. No noise, no nothing--until the thing screams over with with an
ear-bursting screech. My two year old, who was living in the lookout with
me developed "aero-phobia" as a result--if she saw even the smallest dot in
the sky, she would yell in fright, jump into her bed, and pull the blanket
over her. 8^(

I know they thought this was grand fun. I was tempted to take up skeet
shooting, myself. 


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: bphdarcy@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (SJ Roc D'Arcy, MBP)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: F86??? Spotted in Ohio
Date: 15 Apr 92 03:49:05 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo


From bphdarcy@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (SJ Roc D'Arcy, MBP)

>>was a F86 fighter.  It had cruciform wings (they were at a 90 degree
>>angle to the fuselage, not swept at all) with a large football shaped
>>object at each wing tip.  It had a single tail with control surfaces
>>at the top of the rudder.  And it was jet powered, but with no visible
>>engine (the engine was contained within the fuselage I guess). I got

Isn't what he described the plane called the Thundercheif (I'll have
to look up the F number at home).  I beleive it was a late 50's
design jet.  

SJRD
From: yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Mini-Gun question
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:43:16 GMT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA


From yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman)

In article <1992Apr7.035139.7057@cbnews.cb.att.com>, CBTCC%CUNYVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu writes:
> 
>>I went to the machine gun shoot in Louisville KY. last year, and they
>>were selling time on a GE 7.62mm minigun (100 rnds, $75).
>>I was wondering what you'd use this for. Too small to put in an
>>airplane. Mount it in a helicopter? APC?

Alright!  T2 weapon!  is it really possible to shoot a mini-gun like a M-60? 
what about the god damn recoil force?

SF
bvc

-- 
******************************************************************************
* #$!#$^%!^&%#%$^@#^#!$%%$#%$!^$&@*^#(&$()%&*%%&$^$#@$@#$#@^&$&^$&$^^%$#$%%# *
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*                yuqian.bvc.edu		    the Suicidal Freshman            *
******************************************************************************
From: unx.sas.com!sasmjw@mcnc.org (Martyn J. Wheeler)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re:  Low Altitude Training
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:30:10 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Cary NC


From unx.sas.com!sasmjw@mcnc.org (Martyn J. Wheeler)

I can also vouch for the RAF performing low-level training.  Last time
I was back in England (Oct '90) we were visiting Castle Drogo on
Dartmoor, when we heard a plane approaching.  It took a few moments to
realise that it was flying along the valley, almost at the bottom,
towards the castle.  The trees surrounding the castle hid the plane
from view for a moment, then we had a superb view of the top half of a
Tornado, as it pulled a hard turn around the "promentory" at a 90
degree bank.  The top of the canopy at this point was around 10-20
metres from the trees, and later on, looking at the spot from the
other side of the valley, we estimated that the lower wingtip would
have had similar clearance to the ground.

It was an indescribably beautiful sight.  The first plane was followed
by two more at intervals of a minute or two, and all we could do was
just watch in delight.  We would have documented it, but we were too
overawed to remember we had a camera...

We'd seen them performing group manoeuvres over Dartmoor all day (at a
distance), one plane clearly leading several others, but they were
never really low then (somewhere around 2-500m?  hard to tell).  These
three were sometime later -- we wondered if, after leading their
class, the instructors came out to "play" in the valley?

-- 
Martyn
-------------sasmjw@unx.sas.com----(Martyn J. Wheeler)----DoD #293------------
SAS Institute, Inc: (919) 677-8000 ext.7954    H: (919) 839-0092 (Raleigh, NC)
          "If you spin, you deserve to die" -- Mike Hawthorn
       "I love competition, but I hate conflict" -- Alain Prost
From: gallaghe@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Michael Gallagher)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: LAV Manufacturer
Date: 7 Apr 92 03:17:49 GMT
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


From gallaghe@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Michael Gallagher)


In sci.military, tzeng@sunland.gsfc.nasa.gov (Nigel Tzeng) writes:
>
>BTW:  The LAV is a US made vehicle.  The manufaturer escapes me at the
>moment.

The 8-wheeled LAV family as operated by the USMC is made in Ontario
Canada by General Motors-Canada.  This is an adapted design of the Swiss
Piranah (sp?) 8-wheeled vehicle.
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: eugene@nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: accidental nuclear detonation
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 23:57:57 GMT


From eugene@nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)

If one comes by Ames, we have an old Titan I in a visitor area (Ames's only
booster, we are an aeronautics Center).
You can find Titans at many locations throughout the US as monuments.
No big deal.

You must realize that the size of the wrench wasn't like one you find in
a small toolbox.  The handle was one of those 3-4 foot (1-1.3 M) wrenches.
The sockets weigh many pounds (KGs).  This kind of accident was one reason
solid boosters were preferred.

On the topic:
Educating soldiers with the aid of Virtual Reality
Yeah, but they give it a different name like flight simulation or
war gaming. 8^)

'u' again.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
This is the Usenet: do you expect anything other than gross generalizations?
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: wwo@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Hypersonic Attack Weapon question
Date: 15 Apr 92 03:53:47 GMT
Organization: Cornell University


From wwo@vax5.cit.cornell.edu

HI Folks,

	I saw something the other day in Defense Weekly about a proposal from
the U.S. Air Force for a Hypersonic Attack Weapon.  Suppsed to be a
conventional weapon for strategic attack.  Speed was not clear but fast enough
that stealth was not a consideration, airframe heating would give the thing
away on IR.  The proposal called for a weapon to be launched from a heavy
bomber or ground based booster.  The question was payload.  The article implied
kinetic kill but this seemed pretty iffy for strategic targets.  Anyone got
thoughts or heard more about this?

AdvTHANKSance

Tom Schoene
WWO@cornella.cit.cornell.edu
"If you can't sya something nice say something trancendental"
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: macklin@garnet.berkeley.edu (Macklin Burnham)
Subject: Re:  Low Altitude Training
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:52:04 GMT


From macklin@garnet.berkeley.edu (Macklin Burnham)

>>From craig.patten@f824.n680.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Craig Patten)
>>hh> from flying at 200 feet that it takes considerable training
>>hh> for pilots to fly effectively at the lower altitude, yet only two air
>>hh> forces in the world train for it [the USAF not among them].
>>
>>Which air forces are these?




Well, two years ago I wangled a VIP tour of SAC's 15 Air Force, and while
we were inspecting a B52H at March AFB, the AC told me that they were
currently practicing missions below 200 feet. That's right, in B52's.He
said it was great fun.
Mack Burnham
From: gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us (Gene A. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Miniguns
Date: 13 Apr 92 04:06:12 GMT
Organization: Ham Radio Operator, Houston Tex.


From gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us (Gene A. Kennedy)

Perhaps I can clear up a little confusion with a little history on 
the "minigun". The first of the modern "gatling" guns was the M-61 
"vulcan" 20mm cannon, first used (I think) in the F-104. This same 
basic design was used in systems with rates of fire ranging from 
550 rounds per minute to a high of 6000 rpm! The "Vulcan" has long 
been the proper name for this weapon, it is not a "minigun". The 
XM-35 system on the Cobra mounted one of these "Vulcan" cannons 
under the left wing of the Cobra (this was the 550rpm system). 

In the eary 60's, the basic concept of the "Vulcan" was scaled 
down to a 7.62mm weapon, primarily for use on helicopters. Since 
this weapon was basically a "miniture" version of the "Vulcan", it 
is called the "minigun". I have never seen any system that uses 
this gun at a rate of fire higher than 4000 round per minute. This 
is not only due to limits on ammo load, but was also due to design 
restrictions. The weapon went from a dead stop to 4000 rounds per
minute in a fraction of a second, this could put tremendous stress 
on the system, especially the links of the ammo belt, in fact, the 
most common jam for a minigun was due to stretched links. The linked
belt ammo was identical to that used with the M-60 machinegun and 
no "special" links were made for the minigun. The "Vulcan", on the 
other hand, used linked ammo designed and made for that system. 
The links on the 20mm ammo are much heavier relative to the shells 
than are those of the 7.62 ammo.

I do not have any info on a 5.56mm version of the "minigun", in 
fact, I'am not sure such a thing exists. The basic Army "minigun" 
is the M-134, does anyone know of a model number for a 5.56 
weapon?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
             Gene Kennedy - Ham Radio Operator, N5ABI -
                         gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman)
Subject: War ship list
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:24:20 GMT


From yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman)

Does anyone have a list of war ships build by America since the turn of the
century.  Would you please post it.  Including the ones that are still in
construction.  I am just too poor a student to buy a Janes.

Thanks in advance

SF
bvc

-- 
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* #$!#$^%!^&%#%$^@#^#!$%%$#%$!^$&@*^#(&$()%&*%%&$^$#@$@#$#@^&$&^$&$^^%$#$%%# *
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*                yuqian.bvc.edu		    the Suicidal Freshman            *
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From: dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Buried Lancasters
Date: 7 Apr 92 03:26:49 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ


From dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)

In article <1992Apr4.012037.10965@cbnews.cb.att.com> Greg Ervice <ervice@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com> writes:

>A recent post to rec.aviation passed along second hand info that the buried
>Lancasters in the UK are corroded beyond recoverable status. 
>
>Any readers knowledgeable about the recovery efforts care to update the net
>on the Lanc's status?

One or both of the air-related mags I subscribe to ran a short blurb on
this some months ago. Going on memory, I believe the article claimed that
probes driven down hit nothing more solid or hollow than dirt. Someone
also went back through decades of satellite photos of the area and they
clearly show the gradual subsidence of the surface as the airframes
rotted away.

On the plus side, National Geographics ran an article recently which
contains an aerial photo of what appears to be an intact B-17 which has
been sitting in a swamp just north of the Owen-Stanley mountains. Anyone
have access to a couple of "Jolly Green Giants" and a few hundred thou?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | He who is not a revolutionary at 16 has no heart.
                    | He who is a revolutionary at 60 has no head.
                    |                          Lord Chesterfield
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: M1A1 vs. the squirt gun from hell
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 00:49:29 GMT


From jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)

dep+@CS.CMU.EDU (David Pugh) writes:



>Consider a gun that fires 1cc water droplets at 5% c. What would happen
>if one of these droplets hit the frontal armor of a tank?

>I suspect, however, that the droplet would probably punch a small hole
>through the armor. Two questions:

Back in my college days (early 70s), i had a work scholarship
running a high speed camera in a lab.  The lab was doing
hypervelocity research for  NASA and was trying to find out how
to stop micrometeorites.   Most experiments involved firing BB sized
pellets at very high velocity into various materials.

>	Would the exit hole be significantly larger than the entry hole?

The pellet would penetrate over 18" of steel and several feet of 
plexiglass.  The hole would be several inches in diameter and was 
melted smooth.  High speed photographs showed the pellet turning 
into a plasma upon initial contact and this plasma does the
deed.

>	What would happen to the armor in the path of the drop ... would it
>	be displaced to the sides or driven into the tank?

It would be driven into the tank.  Mostly.  Some expells back
out. In our experiments if the pellet did not penetrate the
object, a chunk of material about the same  size as the entrance
crater would be spalled off the backside.   When sectioned, the
target looked like an hourglass. 

The problem with "percentage C" velocities, aside from the energy
needed to propel it, would be frictional damage.  Just air friction
would vaporize/burn the projectile.  Our experiments were done in
a vacuum because of this problem.

(Before anyone asks, no I don't remember exact velocity figures nor
do I remember much detail about the gun.  I do recall it used a
compressed mix of hydrogen and oxygen as the propellent.)

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC        | What's the difference between Jane Fonda
Rapid Deployment System, Inc. | and Bill Clinton?  Hanoi Jane went to 
Marietta, Ga                  | Viet Nam.              
jgd@dixie.com                 | Need public access in Atl?  Write me.