HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: EMS Fork?
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:27:27 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <93021.123952TOM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> TOM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
>Greg LeMond said last year that the EMS fork was the best he had tried.  I saw
>one for sale at a bike shop for $275, which I thought was a bit high to pay
>for a fork.  I notice these expensive forks are made by Kestrel, used on their
>one-piece carbon frame.  Has anyone used this fork with a steel bike?  Or
>comments on the EMS fork in general?

I've heard great things about it -- including from a guy I met yesterday
who wore out a Kestrel in three years, and who had a friend who went through
three before giving up.  Though the first guy wouldn't dream of owning a
Kestrel again (he's bought a Merlin, which he says is better in every way,
and is so disinterested in Kestrel that he hasn't even looked into getting
warranty service), he wishes he had an EMS fork on the Merlin.
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
RAAM in '93?		   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: flip@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Phillip D. Russell)
Subject: Re: LX DX XT XTR Confusion
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 06:23:40 GMT

In article <ILH.93Jan22101223@chicago.lcs.mit.edu> ilh@lcs.mit.edu writes:
>
>Terry, in case you haven't noticed, because you own a Bridgestone,
>you're always the first to defend/worship them.  (And, because you own
>DX, it has the ultimate price/performance tradeoff.)  You'll be happy
>to know that my wife bought a Bridgestone this fall.  But, alas, it
>only has an Exage drivetrain.  According to you, Bridgestone doesn't
>put junk on their bicycles.  According to you LX sucks.  If
>
>	Exage < LX <<<<<<< DX
>
>than what in the world is Bridgestone doing even messing with anything
>less than DX.
>

I pissed that I can't find the cheap Exage components anymore. I made
the mistake of forking out the money for XT hubs just to have a
different part of the hub fail each winter. The original Exage hubs
are still in perfect condition and working great after fours years
of all-weather commuting.

Flip


-- 
         __@    Phillip "Flip" Russell  | Purdue University      __@
  _ -_,_-\<,_   flip@sage.cc.purdue.edu | West Lafayette, IN  _ -\<,_
 (_)/---|/-(_)           The important things...             (_)|/-(_)
                        My bikes and my Macintosh
From: yschin@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Yu-Shin Chin)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Trek 6000  - chain suck - Suntour XC-LTD
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:13:16 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Canada

Does anybody own a 1991 Trek 6000 with suntour XC-LTD components? (or know anybody who does?)

We found that when using the smallest chainring, the chain sometimes falls off the chainring.  Each time it fell off, the chain was dropped underneath the inner chainring, onto the part of the axle which extend out from the bottom bracket.  This immediately causes the chain to get sucked up between the chainrings and the seat stay where it remains jammed.  I have also had the chain fall off, on a different mountain bike, equipped with shimano chainrings, without experiencing chain suck.  Comparing the two 




different granny chainrings, I noticed that the part on the Shimano chainrings where the bolt holes are located are larger and extend towards the inside of the chainring.  Is this sufficient to prevent chain suck?  The only time we have experienced chainsuck was on the Suntour equipped Trek 6000.   

I am interested in any comments about chain suck.
From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Groupsets suck!!
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:47:50 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1993Jan25.201409.27495@Happy-Man.com> Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com writes:
>In <5883@gold.gvg.tek.com> jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche) writes:
>
>>What is the interchangeability of hubs and cassettes?  Is there any
>>compatability between, say, Shimano <-> Suntour, or even Shimano <->
>>Campy?  
>
>>I'm talking only about the mating of the cassette to the hub.  
>
>The manufacturers use different spline patterns for their cogs, so 
>you can't interchange them.  Also, Shimano and SunTour each have 
>more than one spline pattern.  You can't put Hyperglide cogs on a 
>non-hyperglide hub, or MicroDrive cogs on a standard SunTour hub.  
>Think of the freehub body like a freewheel -- different freewheel 
>bodies also take different cog types, even if the end results are 
>compatible.  

In addition, these patterns are apparently patented!?  The guy I talked
to at Phil Wood suggested that they were worried that Shimano's lawyers
would come after them if they used the same pattern on their casette hubs.
They came up with a different, but compatible, pattern instead for the
part that will mate with Shimano cassettes.  (Parts will be available to
make the hubs work with Shimano, Campy, Suntour or Mavic cassettes.)

Sorry to keep referring to my trip to Phil's, but I learned a lot there
and it keeps seeming relevant.
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
RAAM in '93?		   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: kaz@tc.fluke.COM (Scott Kazimour)
Subject: 93 Shimano components
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:23:23 GMT

According to the component guide in the latest issue of Bicycling, it
looks like Ultegra is now available only in 8-speed STI.  Is it true
that 7-speed and down-tube shifters are no longer being made for this
group?

-----
Scott Kazimour
kaz@tc.fluke.com
From: eisele@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Jon Eisele)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:18:01 GMT
Subject: Re: WD-40 To Clean Chains???
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

> I liked the ease and effectiveness of WD-40.  Anybody know where this
> guy is coming from in warning us off of it?
WD-40 seems to attract and hold dirt.  Also, you still need to apply
some other lubricant as WD-40 won't last long (especially if it rains).

Jon
From: GE.DWS@forsythe.stanford.edu (Drew W. Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: LOW ROLLING RESISTANCE TIRES
Date: 22 Jan 1993 14:22:30 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1jotnaINNrr2@ome.sps.mot.com>,
mack@risc.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack) writes:
>A1WB@UNB.CA (A1WB) writes:
>
>>I'M BUILDING A CAR FOR THE SUPER MILEAGE FUEL ECONOMY COMPETITION
>>(ONE OF THOSE LIGHT WEIGHT SPECIALTY SINGLE PASSENGER VEHICLES)
>>AND AM LOOKING FOR THE HIGHEST PRESSURE, LOWEST ROLLING RESISTANCE
>>BICYCLE TIRE ON THE MARKET.  DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS?
>
>Well, I'm sure that you'll be hearing from both the Michelin and the
>Continental camps, so I'll let them argue over this (Pssst....
>Michelin Super Compe H.D.)!  ;-)
>
>You might also think about the tube..

Or, for this particular application, track tubular tires with track
adhesive.  Conti makes some that will take 200 psi.  I don't have my
Conti catalogue handy, so I can't give you the specs on their track
tubulars, but they might do.  How much will this vehicle weigh, and
how far is it expected to go?  If you give this information, perhaps
some of the track racers on the net can give you some
recommendations from their personal experience.

Drew
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: The Future of the Bike
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 01:41:50 GMT

kkrueger@cwis.unomaha.edu (Kurt Krueger) writes:

>I'd also like to see the spelling of "derailleur" revised.  I've never had
>any problems spelling it, but I'm clearly in the minority, judging by the
>messages I read. :)

I don't care how it's spelt - I just wish it wasn't hanging down there
amongst the rocks and mud.  Now _thats_ a long walkout waiting to happen.
(Although I do know how to do derailleur bypass surgery - breaking chains is
no fun when you're being eaten alive by mosquitos!)
-- 
Paul Tomblin, pt@compass.gvc.com
(This is not an official opinion of GeoVision Systems Inc.)
"No matter what you've lost - be it a home, a love, a friend - like the 'Mary
Ellen Carter' rise again." - Stan Rogers - "Mary Ellen Carter"
From: flakebit@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (skully the automaton.)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: grease/lube
Date: 21 Jan 1993 06:27:11 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Summary: what grease/oil to use

Hello.  I need advice on what type of grease and oil to use in warm 
weather. I've been using Tri-flow but it seems to dry up quickly, what
about wax?  Also can anyone suggest a cheap, good, high viscosity grease
to use?  I've been using white lithium, it seems to work ok. Does any-
one know of anything better besides Phil or Goose Grease? 

 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd)
Subject: Shimano 7/8 speed stuff...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: rec.bicycles.tech
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 03:15:19 GMT

Well, I have a question...

I have a road rear wheel that is 7-speed Shimano 600 HG.  I want to build
up a race wheel, and Shimano has been nice enough to switch to 8-speed.
I want the rear wheel to have an 8-speed cassette, because I'm sure in
a couple of years, I'll start running 8-speed, but for now, I'd like to be
able to use both wheelsets (one for training and one for racing).

Now, I've heard from some people that it is possible to put a spacer inside
the cassette and run a 7-speed HG cassette on a Dura-Ace 8-speed hub.  Of
course, I've also heard this isn't possible.

If anyone out there has personal experience with this (which means you've
either seen someone do it or done it yourself... I really don't need to hear
speculation, since I've gotten enough of that already), could you tell
me if it is or isn't possible.  I'd appreciate it.

Bill
lloyd@leland.stanford.edu
From: SteveSgt@torrent.sj.ca.us (Steve Sergeant)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: The Future of the Bike
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 18:47:03 PST
Organization: Steve Sergeant's Home...
Reply-To: SteveSgt@torrent.sj.ca.us
Distribution: usa
X-Mailer: uAccess LITE - Macintosh Release: 1.6v2


In article <1jprf0INNia3@morrow.stanford.edu> (rec.bicycles.tech), GE.DWS@forsythe.stanford.edu (Drew W. Saunders) writes:
> In article <1460067@hplred.HPL.HP.COM>,
> jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
> >Dave Rogers writes:
> >
> >> Some Harley-Davidson motorcycles have had a cogged Kevlar drive
> >> belt.  Supposedly with much better reliability than chains and no
> >> chain lube required.
> >
> >A Harley Davidson does not have nearly the torque of a bicycle rider
> > [etc...]
> >I don't see the belt coming to bicycling, at least not for high
> >performance bicycles.
> 
> That's where I see the future of cycling, or rather where I'd like
> to see the future of cycling, in non-high performance bicycles.

I would really like to second this wholeheartedly.  For bicycles to be taken
seriously as everyday practical transportation, solid, reliable, and relatively
maintanence free utility and commuter bikes are going to have to become widely
available again.

> Many people who currently like to commute short distances by bike
> either don't want to or don't know how to maintain their bicycles.
> A belt drive would reduce maintenance needs for a low-torque
> commuter bike quite nicely, especially if paired with 5-spd hub.
> Put the brakes in the hubs and it stops nearly as well (or as
> poorly) in the rain as in dry, with even less maintenance.  The
> problem with many 3-spd and 5-spd commute bikes, current and old,
> is that the frames are massively over-built lumps of lead.  A
> lighter weight frame would work just as well for most commute needs,
> which tend to put little stress on the frame, even with groceries in
> the panniers.  Add these new, lightweight, solid tires from the UK,
> and it'll be virtually maintenance free.

A large number of the "futsu-no-jitensha" (usual or ordinary bikes) I see
in Japan have rear drum-and-band brakes and belt drive.  Many of them are
three-speeds, but most of them are still probably single speed or two-speed.

The belts seem to hold up very well.  Chains are thought of as something that's
obsolete except for sport bikes such as mountain or racing bikes.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Steve Sergeant            Internet:  SteveSgt@torrent.sj.ca.us
San Jose, California         Radio:  KC6ZKT [@N0ARY.#NOCAL.US.NA]
(408) 945-0395               GEnie:  STEVSERGEANT
Audio Engineering, Music, Macintosh, Bicycles, Backcountry, Japan
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:32:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Selle Italia Flite saddle
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

The Selle Italia Flite saddle is a rebirth of the swallow saddle of
old.  You can find pictures of it in patent literature and old
catalogs.  The swallow never got wide acceptance for the same
reasons that the Flite and its derivatives will most likely fade
away.  The Flite bottoms easily on the seat post and, as previous
titanium products, has a tendency to break.  The principal savings
in weight is that it has no cheeks.  The cheeks of a saddle are not
there as a styling whim but serve a purpose during various bicycling
maneuvers.  Rearward thrust is caught by the back of the leg against
the curvature of the cheek and when climbing steeply on poor
traction, the legs steady the bike laterally against the cheeks
while the rider rises slightly above the saddle.

I tried the Flite and found that, in contrast to my conventional
saddle, it conspicuously lacked the above features.  When switching
back to the regular saddle It occurred to me that I had forgotten to
notice the difference in contrast to the Flite.  I think that is the
true test of saddle comfort.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:36:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Wheel Wonderings
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

Eric Topp writes:

> I would say that spoke prep is good for any wheel that you want to
> stay true.  Can you be assured that the load on each spoke will
> never drop to zero?  There are so many variables: rim cross
> section & diameter, spoke number, hub design, terrain and riding
> style.  Why chance it when there are no disadvantages to using
> spoke prep?

You make it sound difficult.  If you don't use esoteric rims that
have unusual cross sections and stay with a reasonable number of
spokes for your weight, no spoke locking method is needed.  Of
course it doesn't hurt to have an elastic waistband, belt, and
suspenders to keep your pants up either.  The wheels I build for
myself and friends are built with oiled nipples and they stay true
and tight without attention until worn out unless the wheel gets
pranged from the side or gets a dent.

I suspect that many wheels that seem to need spoke prep are not
built tight enough.  The looser the spoke the more likely that it
will become slack often with road shock.  This is how nipples
unscrew.  In this case spoke prep hides this fact and hides a weak
weal as well.

> For newly built wheels, yes.  Later on, who knows?  Another nice
> thing about spoke prep is that it keeps dirt and road grime out of
> the threads.

This might be taken to imply that a spoke prep wheel needs tuning
now and then and that this enables turning the nipples.  I'm not
sure that this is a problem anyway.  I have trued enough wheels on
the road of people whose wheels got pretzled and had no difficulty
truing them up.  On the other hand, when I switch rims on my wheels,
I toss out nipples that don't turn entirely freely because they
might cause problems.  I'm sure the same would be true for "prepped"
spokes.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: whalen@starch.enet.dec.com (Rich Whalen)
Subject: Re: Tri-bar safety
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 13:30:42 GMT


In article <74171@cup.portal.com>, JForester@cup.portal.com (John - Forester) writes...
>   I am trying to learn of the safety aspects of using tri-bars.
>The first time that I conducted a class in which tri-bars were
>used (some time ago) I had to prohibit the cyclists who had them
>from using them in the group because those tri-bars in use had no
>brake levers on them. Therefore the riders could not avoid
>running into the rider ahead when the group slowed down or the
>rider got going too fast. I have since seen some tri-bars with
>brake levers, but I don't know whether the bikes that carry these
>also have brake levers in the normal place. If so, what is the
>mechanism for linking the action? I have also heard of a rider
>who, using a tri-bar on a gentle descent, reached down to change
>to a higher gear and experienced uncontrollable oscillations. Is
>this a frequent effect, and what is its cause, if anyone knows?
> 
>JForester@cup.portal.com                John Forester
>                                        726 Madrone Ave
>408-734-9426                            Sunnyvale CA 94086 USA 

I have a set of clip-on aero bars (Profile for those that care) on each of my
road bikes, and I would not want to ride a long distance without them.

As you mentioned, there are some safety concerns, and when riding in a group I
only use them when I am in the front or off the back.  I've seen the brake
levers for them, but do not have one.  From what I've seen the aero bar brake
lever does not require removal or disabling of the other brake levers.  It
connects to the cable with a sort of Y joint that allows either lever to
operate the brake.  From what I've heard the brake can be quite spongy.

Most aero bars can accept an attachment that moves the shift levers to the aero
bars, I don't have one though.  Some people that I know have expressed an
inability to shift when they are on the aero bars because of a fear of losing
balance.  I can shift as long as I take care to snake my arm along my body and
keep it near my centerline.  Whether or not a rider can use downtube shifters
without getting off of the aero bars depends upon the rider's general ability
and smoothness.

Rich
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:42:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Odd practice
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

A N Burton writes:

> The following is an extract from The Guiness Guide to Bicycling.
>
>   Once the tubes have been fitted together one or two precautions
>   have to be taken, in particular the legendary small cylinder of
>   hardwood that has to be fitted tightly into the lower part of
>   the steering column.  This has prevented generations of cyclists
>   from having serious accidents when their fork-crowns snapped.  I
>   was surprised to learn that this simple precaution is not taken
>   by British manufacturers.

Write that one off to old wive's tales.  I think you won't find many
bicycles with this "safety" device anywhere.  If a fork should break
at the place that this method anticipates (at the top of the fork
crown) it would do no good.  In contrast it provides an additional
failure point because sweat and rain entering the stem to steertube
joint could not drain and would rust out the steertube.  Seat tubes
have often failed this way when the painter forgot to remove a rag
or newspaper stuffing after painting.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: praetzel@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Selle Italia Flite saddle
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:43:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: watserv2.C1Iro4.Azs
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <casseres-260193155818@missmolly.apple.com> casseres@apple.com (David Casseres) writes:
>In article <1460071@hplred.HPL.HP.COM>, jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst
>Brandt) wrote:
>> 
>> away.  The Flite bottoms easily on the seat post and, as previous
>> titanium products, has a tendency to break.
>
>Sorry, Jobst, but as you once said to me, it won't wash.  You have no
>evidence that the Flite "has a tendency to break"; you have only a
>scattering of reports from the Net.  Furthermore, you have perhaps made the
>Flite bottom on the seat post, but you have not made the same test on
>significant numbers of other saddles.  There is no science here, and no
>engineering; only smoke.

I never noticed the bottoming but after a 1/2 season when I was swapping it
off my bike (I could not tolerate it for centuries or longer) I did notice
it.  The rails are only about 2/3 the height (guess) and so it is easier 
to bottom them out.
 
About the breaking.  I would not say it conclusively.  It certainly is very
very rare on steel but I have heard of it happening a few times on Ti saddles 
so it _seems_ to be more common.  One friend of mine has gone thru 3 sets of
springs on his Brooks saddle because the all cracked within a few hundred mi
each.  Perhaps quality control was a problem at the beginning?

My biggest beef is the durability (in one season the leather was worn thru
at the thighs) and comfort.  But I find the Vetta Gel to be torture, the
Turbo to be slightly better (San Marco Regal about the same), a vetta MTB
gel to be the best of all.  The Velo Ti I have (Flite copy) is the least
comfortable.  I got it from a friend who gave up on it after a season.

  - Eric
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:29:41 GMT
Subject: Re: LOW ROLLING RESISTANCE TIRES
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

Bruce Norton writes:

> I'M BUILDING A CAR FOR THE SUPER MILEAGE FUEL ECONOMY COMPETITION
> (ONE OF THOSE LIGHT WEIGHT SPECIALTY SINGLE PASSENGER VEHICLES)
> AND AM LOOKING FOR THE HIGHEST PRESSURE, LOWEST ROLLING RESISTANCE
> BICYCLE TIRE ON THE MARKET.  DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS?

Avocet, in conjunction with Goodyear, is providing these tires that
originally came out as the Freestyle.  It has been used on most of
the leading solar powered and high efficiency human powered vehicles.
For more information call:

Rick Boucher at Avocet    (415) 321 8501

This tire is a 20 inch version of the City (slick) tire and has a
high performance lightweight casing.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com (bob geer)
Subject: Re: WD-40 To Clean Chains???
Reply-To: bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:22:06 GMT

alanb@sdl.ug.eds.com (Alan Braggins) writes:
>... and the WD-40 is cheap (5 litle bottle and a hand squirt,
>not aerosols).

Do you mean "litre" instead of "litle"?

I've never seen WD-40 available in bulk quantities -- only in the
aerosol cans here in the USA.  Has anyone?
-- 
<> Bob `Bear' Geer <>   bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com     (this *should* work)   <>
<>     cola-zombie <>   speaking only for myself, one of my many tricks   <>
<> Salt Lake City, <>    "We must strive to be more than we are, Lal."    <>
<>          Ootah  <>           -- Cmdr. Data, learning schmaltz          <>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: therrien@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.d.therrien)
Subject: Clipless Pedals
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:32:53 GMT


Hi folks!

I am considering going with a clipless pedal system.
I would appreciate any comments on the LOOK pedals,
specifically the Carbon series.  Any thoughts on
Shimano, Time and Sampson would be appreciated as well.

Thanks,

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech