HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: darkstar@pecan.cns.udel.edu (The Janitor Of Anarchy)
Subject: Cool/Stupid
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Summary: My Opinions
Keywords: loves music, great with kids, nice eyes, etc,...
Organization: The Green Circle Of Vengence
Distribution: galaxy
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:58:05 GMT

Well, I thought that I would join the bandwagon, and give my opinions
of what I think is cool and stupid...

Well, the creation of the newsgroup I think is one of the coolest things
of all time.
Ms. T.J. Goldstein's behavior and attitude I thought was very cool.

On the down side, everyone's ego seems to be very stupid.  I especially
like the way no one refuses to listen to someone else when it comes to
discussion on missing scenes/characters/etc...
I also think that this whole debate on copyright law is stupid.  How the
hell do you argue against something set in stone I'll never understand.
And finally, this whole Star Wars vs. Star Trek thing is definitely
stupid.  Look people let's get this straight--which ever show you like 
more, you're gonna have win; any two-bit buffoon will find the
appropriate reason/excuse to have his/her favorite side win.  But, I
will say one thing.  This is rec.arts.sf.starwars, and not
rec.arts.startrek.  Personally, I think that Star Wars will win.  If 
you want to see Star Trek win, why don't you take this fucking argument
over to one of their newsgroups and discuss to ribbons over there along
with all of the other wonderful and lifeless things (like which novel is
or isn't canon) that all those boring Trekkies/Trekkers/People With Sad
Lives are always so fond of talking about!!!!!!!




	--Jerry





-- 

Jerry Alexandratos           | "Choosing a president is like going to
darkstar@freezer.cns.udel.edu|  an adult bookstore...  It's picking 
darkstar@bach.udel.edu       |  the dildo that will hurt the least!!!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars,rec.games.rpg
From: dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu (David Kemper)
Subject: Rebel Alliance Sourcebook
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-a4  
Reply-To: dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu
Organization: University of Administrative Incompetence
Distribution:  usa
Date: 30 JUL 92 17:00:45    

Does anyone have access to a store that carries a HARDCOVER edition of West
End Games' "Rebel Alliance Sourcebook"?  I have called every bookstore in
Tucson and half the ones in Phoenix, and all I have been able to find is
the paperback edition.

If anyone knows of a store where they can get their hands on this, I will
pay its cost + shipping + a couple of extra bucks for your trouble.

Please e-mail me before you go out and buy it in case someone else has
already responded.

Thanks.

--Gallandro

  From 1964:
  Reporter: "What do you think of the campaign in Detroit to stamp out the
             Beatles?"
  Paul McCartney: "We've got a campaign of our own to stamp out Detroit."
From: nab4574@summa.tamu.edu (Neil Alan Burleson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Ben's Death
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:18:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul31.144834.9639@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, bl375@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian G. Greenberg) writes...
> 
>This subject has always bothered me.  Why does Ben seem to give up while
>fighting Vader?  When I saw ANH for the first time (I was about 7) I thought
>that Ben was tranfering the Force from him to Luke.  Now I wonder if it was
>because Yoda had told Ben that it was Luke's destiny to face Vader.
> 
>What is your opinions?
>-Brian

When Ben sees that the Stormtroopers are distracted by the fight and
the others have their chance to get away, Ben realizes that there is
no way for him to (a) defeat Vader AND (b) get around those Stormtroopers
AND (c) avoid causing further disturbance and allowing reinforcements
to come in. By giving away his life he knows that (a) "He will become
stronger than Vader could ever imagine" AND (b) it's a sure ticket
for the Falcon to leave.

+------------------------+------------------------+-------------------+
| Neil Burleson   Texas A&M Univerity,  College Station, Texas  USA   |
+------------------------|     neilb@tamu.edu     |  nab4574@tamzeus  |
                         +------------------------+-------------------+
"Taste and see that the LORD is good;
       blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him."  -- Psalm 34:8
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.announce
From: cramer@phys.washington.edu (John Cramer)
Subject: Re: Hugo nominees
Summary: correction
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 03:19:48 GMT

Correction:
> New York Review of Science Fiction     Hartwell, Kramer, et al.
in the Hugo Nominations should be:
  New York Review of Science Fiction     Hartwell, Cramer, et al.

The Cramer in question is my daughter, Kathryn Cramer, who also wins
awards for editing horror anthologies (The Architecture of Fear).

John Cramer
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Hugo Awards
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:25:31 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <krikket.4567@meltdown.chi.il.us> krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us
(D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:
>
> [Please keep your lines under 80 characters!]
> Since many WorldConComs seem to read this newsgroup, it seems like a good
> place as any to suggest a new way of figuring how to do the Hugos...
> ...
> Why not have the voting ballots along the lines of:
> 
> STORY              AUTHOR        RANKING (circle one)   DIDN'T READ
> -------------  --------------   ---------------------- -------------
> The Electric    John Q.           1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9         [ ]
>   Dagger          Author        BAD      to      GOOD
> 
> (And yes, I just made the story and author up - Don't take that seriously!!!)
> (Highest average for the book in the given catagory wins)

But your "9" is not the same as my "9"--I used to know someone who
rated everything either +4 or -4 (on a scale of -4 to +4).  His liking
a book (9) will give it more points than my loving a book but thinking
it wasn't the Great American Novel (8).

It is also my perception (YMMV) that the people who rate everything at
extremes tend to go for the more popular series books rather than books
of some literary quality.  (Okay, this sounds elitist, but it's still
my perception.)

The current systems forces everything onto the same scale--a
fourth-place ranking is pretty much the same no matter who gives it.
The proposed system has people all over the map.

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
					 -- Isaac Asimov (1920-1992)
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Hugo Awards
Date: 20 Jul 92 09:07:45 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <4967@transfer.stratus.com>, jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim
Mann) writes:
>
>This bit about fans not wanting to vote for series is wrong. A number
>of books in series have won Hugos.  Those folks I know who didn't
>vote for things like The White Dragon (myself included) didn't vote
>for it because we didn't think it was very good, not because it
>was part of a series.    But I DID vote, for example, for Speaker
>for the Dead and will vote for Xenocide this year. So obviously
>I have no problem with books in a series winning Hugos.

I hope you're right, but I have my doubts...

At any rate, I was at least hoping for getting SOME reasonce to the ideas I put forth for voting on the Hugos...  Not a single reply.  Does this mean that people don't care, or that everyone things everyone else will respond, or???

Krikket               ! krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us ! USnail:3 Danada Square E.
a.k.a Doug Krick      ! Team Star Charter Member   !        Suite 246
Data ph# 708/665-9732 ! #include<std.disclaimers>  !        Wheaton, Il 60187

 'If you are what you eat, then I'm Dead Meat'  -- Timbuk 3 "Grand 'ol Party"
From: hwt@bwdlh490.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Hugo Awards
Date: 29 Jul 92 12:38:50 GMT
Reply-To: Henry.Troup@BNR.CA
Distribution: world
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Jul21.132531.3412@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>,
ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
|>The current systems forces everything onto the same scale--a
|>fourth-place ranking is pretty much the same no matter who gives it.

And the proposed system doesn't guarantee a winner.  Say that there are
five novels, and every voter rates each of them 7 out of 9.  Give five
Hugos? No Hugos? Flip a fivesided coin?  Elect an Emperor and march on Rome?

Also, if the original poster doesn't like what gets nominated, he surely
knows who can submit nominating ballots.
                                    
  Henry Troup - HWT@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
   "Nature abhors an atmosphere.  Check your suit.  Check your buddy's suit."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: dee@ranger.enet.dec.com (Donald Eastlake, 3rd)
Subject: Re: Serious Flaw in Hugo voting (Yet another
Summary:  it's been tried before
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp., Apple-Digital Alliance
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:48:12 GMT


In article <1992Jul16.044600.10145@clarinet.com>, brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes...
>Yes, people do vote for stories they have not read.  ...
>However, in most cases, I would venture that not ranked == not read.
>
>The Hugo system *encourages* you to rank stories not read, because to
>not rank them is to rank them last, while if you hate a story, you can
>rank unread stories above it, figuring they were likely to be better.
>-- 
>Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366

This is not a new idea.

Years ago someone made the same suggestion and proposed a specific system
whereby ballots only counted against a candidate if the candidate was
specifically ranked on the ballot.

George Flynn tried running this sytems on real live Hugo votes (for 
Noreascon Two I recall).  The results were a disaster.

Relatively "obscure" candidates, ranked by few people, are almost always
ranked highly by those people.  Just what this means is not quite clear
but the result was that, in almost all categories, the candidates ranked
on the fewest ballots won!  On lesson from this is that voting systems
changes can be very counterintuitive and you need to test them on real
life.

Because of the above, if such a system were put into effect, the result
would be big campaigns to make sure that voters ranked the candidates they
were unfamiliar with after the ones they really wanted to win, so as to
defeat them, rather than just leave them unranked.

There are very complex systems that, by most objective criterion, use
more of the realtive ranking information from all the ballots and would
produce "better" results.  But there is really no chance of getting them
adopted due to Business Meeting bias against complexity (which I think is
a reasonable bias).  Besides, they would not make much difference as long
as you stick with a system where a majority chooses at each stage.

Now if you want more of a "proportional representation" scheme, you can
get very different results.  Say 55% of the voters prefer A>B>C>D>E but
40% think D is best.  Obviously A should win but if you feel that the 
majority should have, to some extent, "used up" its vote in seleting A and
that D should come in 2nd, then you are talking about a completely
different philosophy from the current Hugos.

Basicly, I recommend leaving well enough alone.


-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-
    Donald E. Eastlake, 3rd       1-508-486-2358 (w) 1-617-244-2679(h)
    PO Box N, MIT Branch PO       dee@ranger.enet.dec.com (primary)
    Cambridge, MA 02139 USA
From: HIGGINS@FNALF.FNAL.GOV (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Gentry Lee (was  Arthur C. Clarke in Minehead (18-07-1992))
Date: 21 Jul 92 10:59:33 GMT

Simon:

Thanks very much for posting your account of your Minehead visit. 
I've always wanted to meet Arthur Clarke, but that's getting
increasingly improbable.  His juvenile novels and science books made
him my favorite author when I was ten years old, and I've never lost
my deep admiration for his work.

>I must admit that
>I started the evening with quite a bias against Gentry Lee (as I think most
>people would, if they had read _Cradle_), but he spoke a lot better than
>he writes! 

Agreed.  I've met him on two occasions.  The first was at Worldcon (I
achieved this by the simple expedient of putting myself on a panel
with him-- amazing what you can accomplish when you're in charge of
the program track) and the second was during a lecture he gave at the
local junior college.  

Lee became a novelist after a long career in spacecraft engineering;
he was deeply involved in the Viking and Galileo projects at JPL, and
worked on the TV series *Sagan* with Carl Cosmos.  Or whatever.  His
lecture was ostensibly a tour of the solar system, but served as a
hook on which to hang anecdotes about his travels, his family,
and a lot of human foibles (including his own).  He imparted less
technical information than I expected, but was a wonderful
storyteller.   He's good at getting across the human side of science
and technology-- and he really rammed home that old sensawunder. 
Speaking as a guy who gives talks about such subjects myself, I was
*very* impressed.  Wish I could do 10% as well as Gentry Lee!

     O~~*           /_) ' / /   /_/ '  ,   ,  ' ,_  _           \|/
   - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / /   / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
 /       \                          (_) (_)                    / | \
 |       |     Bill Higgins   Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
 \       /     Bitnet:     HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET
   -   -       Internet:  HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
     ~         SPAN/Hepnet:      43011::HIGGINS
From: djbailey@skyler.mavd.honeywell.com
Subject: Address request - Kathey Mar
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:47:07 GMT

Hello, I am looking for an address for Kathey Mar, the filk singer.
I am asking for Minicon 28 in Minneapolis, MN.

Thanks in advance.  -- Don J. Bailey

djbailey@skyler.mavd.honeywell.com
(612) 872-4237
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: djbailey@skyler.mavd.honeywell.com
Subject: Re: Address request - Kathey Mar
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:40:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.094707.1@skyler.mavd.honeywell.com>, djbailey@skyler.mavd.honeywell.com writes:
> Hello, I am looking for an address for Kathey Mar, the filk singer.
> I am asking for Minicon 28 in Minneapolis, MN.
> 
> Thanks in advance.  -- Don J. Bailey
> 
> djbailey@skyler.mavd.honeywell.com
> (612) 872-4237

Information received.  Thank you.  -- Don Bailey
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Re: Hugo Awards
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:07:45 GMT

In article <15210@bwdls58.bnr.ca> Henry.Troup@BNR.CA writes:

>And the proposed system doesn't guarantee a winner.  Say that there are
>five novels, and every voter rates each of them 7 out of 9.  Give five
>Hugos? No Hugos? Flip a fivesided coin?  Elect an Emperor and march on Rome?

No Hugos.  If no novels seem outstanding to a significant subset of the
population, then screw it, no award should be given that year.

The idea is to reward excellence, not merely the best of a mediocre field.

Contrariwise, the system should reward more than one outstanding novel in
a given year (if that happens).


		He's got a mask that's black and white
		  Mine's just black but that's all right
		In silence and cunning he plies his trade
		  I ply mine in silence and shade
		[. . .]
		In the heart of the city it's murder time
		  It ain't no crime to kill a mime
			-- "Killing a Mime" by Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: mvp@hsv3.lsil.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: Hugo Awards
Organization: Video 7 + G2 = Headland Technology
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:35:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.180745.12628@pbhyc.PacBell.COM> djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes) writes:
>No Hugos.  If no novels seem outstanding to a significant subset of the
>population, then screw it, no award should be given that year.
>
>The idea is to reward excellence, not merely the best of a mediocre field.
>
>Contrariwise, the system should reward more than one outstanding novel in
>a given year (if that happens).

OK, how about this one:

If "No Award" wins, then that year's Hugo is put into a pool of
unawarded Hugos.  If there are outstanding unawarded Hugos, then put
on the ballot "Stories from preceeding years that should have won a
Hugo".  You can average no more than one per category per year (which
should deal with the "diluting the meaningfulness of a Hugo award"
issue) but an unjustly overlooked story should eventually get its
Hugo.  You may want to limit a story to only appearing on the "second
chance" ballot a certain number of times.

-- 
Mike Van Pelt                                When guns are outlawed,
Headland Technology/Video 7                  only Carl Rowan will have guns.
sun!indetech!hsv3!mvp
mvp@hsv3.lsil.com
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Hugo Awards
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:56:19 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <1992Jul21.132531.3412@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
(Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
>In article <krikket.4567@meltdown.chi.il.us> krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us
>(D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:
>>
>> [Please keep your lines under 80 characters!]
>> Since many WorldConComs seem to read this newsgroup, it seems like a good
>> place as any to suggest a new way of figuring how to do the Hugos...
>> ...
>> Why not have the voting ballots along the lines of:
>> 
>> STORY              AUTHOR        RANKING (circle one)   DIDN'T READ
>> -------------  --------------   ---------------------- -------------
>> The Electric    John Q.           1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9         [ ]
>>   Dagger          Author        BAD      to      GOOD
>> 
>> (And yes, I just made the story and author up - Don't take that seriously!!!)
>> (Highest average for the book in the given catagory wins)
>
>But your "9" is not the same as my "9"--I used to know someone who
>rated everything either +4 or -4 (on a scale of -4 to +4).  His liking
>a book (9) will give it more points than my loving a book but thinking
>it wasn't the Great American Novel (8).

Okay...  If you think that is too much os a spread, then you can narrow it to 1-5 or even 1-3.  (Bad, Avg. Good) with the Didn't Read box after it.

>It is also my perception (YMMV) that the people who rate everything at
>extremes tend to go for the more popular series books rather than books
>of some literary quality.  (Okay, this sounds elitist, but it's still
>my perception.)

Actually, I think that the Hugos SHOULD go to those books that are the most popular with the fans, not nessisairily the best written book, according to the authors peers.  (Which is why the awards for the Nebula have ben delayed until AFTER the Hugo ballots have been received...)

>The current systems forces everything onto the same scale--a
>fourth-place ranking is pretty much the same no matter who gives it.
>The proposed system has people all over the map.

The votes are spread out, so that it is easier to pick out the one that is most popular....

Krikket               ! krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us ! USnail:3 Danada Square E.
a.k.a Doug Krick      ! Team Star Charter Member   !        Suite 246
Data ph# 708/665-9732 ! #include<std.disclaimers>  !        Wheaton, Il 60187

 'If you are what you eat, then I'm Dead Meat'  -- Timbuk 3 "Grand 'ol Party"
            
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: shick@europa.asd.contel.com (steve hick)
Subject: Zimmer/Dark Border
Reply-To: shick@europa.asd.contel.com (steve hick)
Organization: GTE Contel Federal Systems
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 20:15:53 GMT

Anyone know if any more are being written or to be published?
From: burt@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Burt Voorhees)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Brain size (was Re: the "cause" of homosexuality)
Date: 24 Jul 92 02:55:18 GMT

>From article <BruMts.JwE@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, by levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (L
enore Levine):

>>
>> There may very well be some statistical differences between the
>> sexes, but I don't think you've chosen a very strong example...
>[math]

  The differences in math are in the area of mathematical reasoning and
in the best studies I know of they are hugh.  E.g., with a sample
population of something like 60,000 mathematically gifted 13 year olds
given the math part of the SAT's boys outnumberded girls in the over
700 score group by 13 to 1.  There is the question of how much of this
is cultural bias, but one doubts that it all is.

>Math is a very large area of study.  I think there are only a few areas
>where man seem to have an advantage.

>The one that springs to mind is 3d visualization.  Men seem to be naturally
>better at such things as mentally rotating a 3d object.

  For me the question is still whether or not there are areas of math which
have just not been developed because they rely on forms of cognition that
women do better than men.

>Note that I'm certainly not an expert in this area.
nor am i
bhv
>SEH
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Tad Williams
Keywords: Tad Williams
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:03:20 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Jul25.123455.6596@ms.uky.edu> kaveh@ms.uky.edu (Kaveh Baharestan) writes:
>bkpipa@eos.ncsu.edu (BRIAN KEITH PIPA) writes:
>
>>	1) What is the name of the third book in the trilogy, and is
>>		it out yet? (I know, technically that's 2 questions)

>The third book was to be called _TO GREEN ANGEL TOWER_.  
>And, No. the book is not out yet.

Well, when Tad was over at my house this weekend (gosh, I love being able
to say things like that), he said he had just finished TO GREEN ANGEL TOWER.
It's 1600 pages long (I assume in manuscript), and it will be out next spring
(I think in March, but I'm not entirely certain).
--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: "Buffalo" is SF?  /Hugo nominated/ SF?!
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:47:16 GMT

The problem is that there is really no good alternative.  If the
worldcon were to disqualify a work like Buffalo because it is not SF,
that would cause far more argument and trouble than we have now.

The definition of SF is left to the nominees.  Clearly enough nominees
and nebula recommenders felt it qualified somehow.  In the end, it is
again left to the voters.  If you think Buffalo is non-SF and that
non-SF should not be on the ballot, vote accordingly.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written