HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: timf@polari.online.com
Subject: Re: Guns and Suicide, Medical Examiner's Rprt
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix (206) 328-4944
Distribution: seattle
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:48:29 GMT


I have a feeling that Raey & Kellerman are allowing their study to be
used to imply something which it does not, in fact, prove.  The way
the study is reported seems to indicate that folks who own guns are
more likely to *attempt* to commit suicide.  I have not seen the data,
but I'd bet that the study really shows that folks who own guns 
*succeed* in committing suicide more often than folks who don't.
If so, than the only thing the study actually proves is that guns
are more efficient weapons than knives, sleeping pills, carbon
monoxide, etc.  In other words, it proves something which we all
agree on already.

I suspect that if the study really showed a correlation between
gun ownership and rate of suicide attempt, the media would jump
on that fact.  I mean, it would be a great news bit, where one
could appear totally objective and yet strongly imply that gun 
nuts really are, after all, "nuts".  

On the other hand, if all the study shows is that gun owners
succeed in commiting suicide more often than non gun owners, 
than one could report those results just the way they have been
reported:  "New study indicates that people living in homes where
guns are present are more likely to commit suicide."  That could be
an accurate statement, since they are more likely to *succeed*, and
therefore *commit*, suicide.  The study seems designed for broadcast
news, in such a way that actual facts can be reported "objectively",
but not explained adequately (due to the time constraints under which
broadcast news operates).

The beauty of the study is that the vast majority of TV viewers are not
familiar enough with survey techniques or statistics to infer what the
study actually measured, and will accept what they *understood* the
study to say (as reported on TV) as a "scientific fact".

BE SKEPTICAL...BE VERY SKEPTICAL.

-- 
Timothy R. Flanagan		timf@polari.online.com
				tim@reed.edu
I'm the ACLU, the NRA, the EFF, Pro-Choice -- and I vote.
Unfortunately, I can't find a candidate to vote for.
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
From: wolffie@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New Gas for the Puget Sound
Reply-To: wolffie@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: seattle
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:00:58 GMT

In article <3216@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> robs@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert  
Sipe) writes:
> 
>    Looks like we will be buying new and paying more for an allegedly 
> cleaner burning gas for our cars come November 1st.  The PI claims the
> costs to motorists will be 2-5 cents per gal and the benefits will be  
reduced
> pollutants in the air.  Has anyone heard anything about this prior to the
> government anouncing we WILL buy into this program.  Is there any 
> case studies done that ensures we will be reducing or slowing down the
> rate of increase of pollution we put into the air.  With something this
> dramatic there should have been some public hearings on the issues.   
Perhaps
> I have been spending too much time at work.

Face it, folks.  A clean car is like an Artesian (remember Artesians?).

Have you ever seen one?

We're gonna burn up all this petroleum in another 40 years or so anyway.   
Americans will never learn to conserve anything.  Let's hurry up and get it  
over with.  I'm really tired of trying to breathe here in Los Angeles del  
Norte.
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: What happened to all the Yellow Jackets?
Keywords: Insects, Wasps, Bees, Sting, Ouch
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:03:03 GMT
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

In article <cummings.714160508@milton> cummings@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Cummings) writes:
/	I have hardly seen any this year, and I'm one of those who gets
/excited and screams and dances when they're around.  I've seen nothing
/about bees or wasps on the news or in the papers.  What's going on?  Am I
/unique in having a wasp-free summer?

If you want, I'd be happy to have you drop by my house and take some of the
wasps endlessly droning around my patio.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Zintel)
Subject: Re: How do you get fast police action?
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:45:15 GMT

In article <3386@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> robs@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert Sipe) writes:

>You are quite correct about Seattle's orientation.  Each time an 
>ordinance is suggested that will reduce crime it is branded racists
>against people of color or it violates civil rights. 

It frightens me that so many folks are willing to trade civil rights for
a little law and order, given the fact that lots of law and order doesn't
seem to be working all that well.

>If the city allows minors (18 years or younger) to wonder the streets at 
>night some are likely to get into trouble with the law.  A curfew would 
>address that but the ACLU will no doubt challenge it.

What will these kid do after they are arrested for breaking a curfew ? I'm
sure that the many bored kids that are not getting in trouble will not feel
angry and alienated by the *adult* system and will realize that they must
pay a small price to protect adults from a few trouble makers. They will 
probably go directly home, play cards and sing with the folks. Not. Perhaps 
we should give them something more interesting to do than wonder the streets.
-- 
---
Mike Zintel             zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com not zintel@mdi.com anymore
Motorola Mobile Data
Bothell, WA
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
Subject: Re: Guns and Suicide, Medical Examiner's Rprt
Summary: to end it all, one must be pretty unhappy.  Why so many?
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Distribution: seattle
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 16:58:18 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.134025.28108@eskimo.celestial.com> wix@eskimo.celestial.com (Dennis Wicks) writes:
> I don't take the paper so I have not read the article, but from 
> reading the posts several thoughts come to mind.

Me, either.  Tends to contaminate the mind with prejudgements which
inhibit proper flamage! :)

[...]
> I read somewhere quite a while ago that a very large percentage of
> single vehicle auto accidents were probably suicide attempts. 
> And a significant proportion of multiple vehicle accidents were also.
[...]

If true, that's downright creepy!!!  Just think -- next time you're
crossing the 1st. Ave. Bridge, the driver of the oncoming car may, in
a final vituperative burst of sheer rancor at the universe, decide to
obliterate a piece of it (you) as well as himself.  Glurk!  Stay in the
right lane, dear.

One has to wonder about a society where such things start happening often
enough that planners and decision-makers must take notice.  What will be
the response?  Rarely is the question formulated

	Why are there so many unhappy people?

Usually we get something like

	How can we control the distribution of the most common tools of
	violence?

A couple of fundamentally different world-views operating there, mates.
-- 
kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
e-mail me at kurt@eskimo.celestial.com for a copy of Bob Black's essay,
"The Abolition of Work"
Newsgroups: uw.general,seattle.general,uw.announce
From: trieu@me.utoronto.ca (Trieu C. Chau)
Subject: Re: Female wanted 
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering
Distribution: seattle
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 04:58:05 GMT

I'd like to point out that this thread is currently being broadcasted into
rec.music.classical.indian, and I've gotten an e-mail complaint already,
because I was not aware of the cross-posting in my followup.

Please remove the above newsgroup from your Newsgroups: header in your
follow-ups.


-- 
=====================================================================
| Trieu Clinton Chau ~{VljKF=~}    | University of Toronto   ~{6`B[6`4sQ'~} |
| E-mail ~{5gWSSJV7~}:             | Electrical Engineering  ~{5gWS9$3LO5~} |
|    trieu@me.utoronto.ca      |                                    |
From: pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: How do you get fast police action?
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:13:27 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Totally Unorganized

In article <1992Aug18.162457.20448@oneworld.wa.com> charles@oneworld.wa.com writes:
>Neal Johnson writes
>
> [ much stuff expressing displeasure of city/police policies deleted ]
>

One must remember, that the police priorities are determined by the
pressures and priorities of the mayor, who gives directions to the chief
of police Fitsimmons (like-thinking folks, both of 'em).  The current
mayor ran on a liberal, statist platform, all very PC.  And the PC
population of Seattle elected him.

They wanted liberal, 'Politically Correct', statist oriented leadership,
and THEY GOT IT.  So, in general, Seattle is getting exactly what it
deserves.

It IS a bit of a drag for those who opposed the current 'leadership',
by voting for the opposition, though.  Hopefully next election the
population will have learned for the next mayoral contest, but somehow
I really doubt it.  They will vote for the same administration, and
complain about the revenue-hungry money-grubbing over public safety
policies, and continue to pressure officers to write those revenue
producing tickets, rather than assigning that manpower to duties which
make them available to respond to crimes against property (or persons).

But they WILL be oh-so PROGRESSIVE, and PC.

-- 
pat@rwing.uucp                                  (Pat Myrto),  Seattle, WA
                      If all else fails, try:
         ...!uunet!{pilchuck, polari}!rwing!pat
WISDOM:    "Travelling unarmed is like boating without a life jacket" 
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: flanagan@grover (Jim Flanagan)
Subject: Stereo Lithography Query
Organization: Collective Inertia Towards Innovation (CITI)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:56:54 GMT

  I'm reasonably confident that thre aren't any stereo lithography
  service bureaus, but does anyone know of or have a stereo lithography
  device in the greater Seattle area that can be made available for 
  interesting sculpture? Boring sculpture. I'm not unwilling to pay
  a modest fee for the use of such a machine.

Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: flanagan@grover (Jim Flanagan)
Subject: Re: Stereo Lithography Query
Organization: Collective Inertia Towards Innovation (CITI)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:49:47 GMT

dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:
: Are you referring to anaglyphic lithography of the type used for
: topographical maps, or some different kind?  I've been hoping I could
: come across some one who could superimpose and print halftoned photos
: anaglyphically, but I have to admit I haven't been looking in earnest.
: You might call Reel 3-D Enterprises in Culver City California.  They
: sell lots of supplies for stereo photography as well as books and
: things dealing with stereography.  They might know someone who does
: this type of printing.  Their number is 213 837-2368.

  I think what you refer to may be slightly different. Stereo lithography
  is the process of extruding 3D models from a vat of UV hardened goop.
  CAD data in, little plastic model out.
From: sue@amc.com (Sue McCord)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Conga, Tumba drums for sale
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:29:10 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

I am posting this for a friend, please call the
number listed below:


  C o n g a  and  T u m b a  drums for sale.

  LP percussion
  dark hardwood with chrome finish

  Beautiful drums to see and play!

  $340 a piece
  $650 for the pair

  Stephan  324-3019
Newsgroups: uw.general,seattle.general,uw.announce,rec.music.indian.classical
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Female wanted                                     
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 04:44:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.034101.17124@ssc.wa.com> tad@ssc.wa.com (Tad Cook) writes:
>
>Sorry, but gender discrimination in housing is illegal in the 
>city of Seattle.

 So? Report her or shut up!

Wassail,
Al Billings


Xref: sparky seattle.general:2645 pnw.general:1838
From: markmc@sierra.com (Mark McWiggins)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: Re: Seattle Online / polari
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:35:09 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Sierra Geophysics Inc.,  Kirkland, Wa

I got some e-mail from Bruce King saying he'll be back up by Wednesday or
so.  He said he went to reduce the number of phone lines he was carrying
from 16 to 12, and US West unhooked the wrong ones (i.e. the ones with the
main phone #'s).

--
Mark McWiggins           +1 206 822 5200x377 days      Box 31356
markmc@sierra.com        +1 206 632 1905 24 hrs.       Seattle WA 98103-1356
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: wolffie@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: NATURAL GAS vs. OIL HEAT
Reply-To: wolffie@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: pnw
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:47:53 GMT

In article <DRK.92Aug10064625@sanddab.cs.washington.edu>  
drk@cs.washington.edu (Daniel Kerns) writes:
> In article <1992Aug9.042305.3952@kopachuk.uucp> dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David  
Breneman) writes:
>    More advantages of oil heat:
> 
>    4) If you have a diesel car, you can run your car on it.
> 
> Sure.  Just don't get caught.

And please don't operate a diesel car upwind of any human beings.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: larryd@milton.u.washington.edu (Larry Desoto)
Subject: Re: How do you get fast police action?
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:22:05 GMT

mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike Burr) writes:

>In article <1992Aug17.231352.28822@u.washington.edu> pmfisher@milton.u.washington.edu (Patrick Fisher) writes:
>>
>>	I would have said I was seeing the burglary taking place.
>>That would get their attention.  I might have also embellished
>>the story to say that the thiefs were taking more than they 
>>actually were.  Maybe that last part is a wrong thing to do,
>>but it would get their attention more.
>>
>>	Pat-

>Actually Pat, the whole idea is the wrong thing to do.  Police calls are
>prioritized with the highest priorty going to calls where potiental 
>bodily harm or injuries are present.  Lying about the circumstances could
>take police away from someone who needs them worse - and get you a ticket
>or possible lawsuit if someone suffers injury because of your actions.

They won't come any faster even if there is potential for bodily harm...or
at least they didn't when I called them about someone screaming for help
outside in the parking lot at 5 AM.  Their response time was 15 minutes.

--
Larry                                   |   Thunder makes all the noise;
                                        |   lightning gets the job done.
larryd@milton.washington.edu
I have my opinion; the university has its own.
From: robs@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert Sipe)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Guns and Suicide, Medical Examiner's Rprt
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:42:45 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Boeing

>Perhaps someone who understands Social Science Research should look up the study
>and tell us what it really did say. The Seattle Times is pretty good on Science for
>newspaper, but they are still selling papers and they still have an editorial bias.
>
>						Martins Skele

Correction!  The article was in the PI.









-- 
For those of you who wish to send a clear message to Time-Warner for
promoting Ice-T's Cop Killer song, write to: Geral M Levin, CEO 
                                             75 Rockefeller Plaza
                                             New York, NY 10019 
Xref: sparky seattle.general:2622 pnw.general:1830
From: cummings@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Cummings)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: Re: Seattle Online / polari
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:49:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.cummings.714156582
Distribution: pnw
Organization: University of Washington

In <1992Aug17.201425.15591@fnx.uucp> jp@fnx.uucp (Jack Pospyhala) writes:

>In <1992Aug17.025007.16709@eskimo.celestial.com> nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) writes:

>>Eskimo North has been online for more than ten years now.  

>Wow, I'm impressed.  I've never seen another system, or even heard of
>another system, that has been online for ten years.  How do you do it?

[more on this topic deleted]

>C'mon, share, I'd really like to increase the reliability of this
>system.  It just can't seem to stay online for more than a few months at
>a time...

	Rimshot, please...
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: jrdobbs@milton.u.washington.edu (J Robert Dobbs  Esq.)
Subject: Re: How do you get fast police action?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: seattle
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:54:38 GMT

I'm not sure the police do ANYTHING effective in this town, except 
running fairly successful "sting" operations on fences etc.
Its worth it to mark down serial numbers because they do recover
stolen items occaisonally (I've heard estimates of 10-20%).
Of course, anything not clearly identified gets sold, with the profits
going back to the city (or is it the Police directly?)

Maybe this is the most cost-effective way of dealing with crime.
SOmehow I doubt it.  

I've had my car broken into twice (with significant damage both times)
in the past year and a half, even though my radio was pulled out.  My
bicycle has also been stolen, and almost everyone I know has similar
stories (usually North of the ship canal, where insurence is markedly
cheaper!).

I do know the police are very effective in:

A) Hassling people with old/ugly cars, both when parked and in transit.
   This appears to be a revenue enhancement scheme - poor people can't
   hire lawyers and take time off from work to go to court.
   The fines get paid, eventually...

B) Putting on massive shows of force at demostrations.  Seattle police
   are less brutal than other big cities, but I still know a few people
   who were damaged for the heinous crime of civil disobedience (ie
   "failure to disperse".)

C) Arresting people of color who may or may not be dealing drugs.
   This I know mostly from reading the paper, since they don't seem
   to be arresting the (nearly all white) people trying to sell me
   drugs on the Ave, and I don't spend much time south of Yesler.
   Nor do they hassle the law-abiding business men selling crack pipes
   in their stores; I guess they're out confiscating those menaces-
   to-society, Halide grow lamps.

Does anyone seriously think Police are going to risk their necks to
put an end to the hard drug trade or stop crimes in progress, when its
much easier to do the things that actually bring in money?
Does anyone think they spend most of their time saving lives?!?

Most of the time I see police, they are filling out paperwork or
pulling over someone. (Bike cop variation - pulling over jaywalkers).


Please note I'm not attacking the police as humans, merely as tools
of an ineffective, money-hungry bureaucracy...(the city as a whole).

I actually have seen more cops on walking beats lately, especially
downtown, and this is probably a good thing if it deters people from
From: gah2468@bcsaic.boeing.com (Geoffrey Hazel)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Shady Seafirst billing practice
Summary: Seems fishy to me...
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:48:59 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

In article <1992Aug15.235207.27381@nwnexus.WA.COM>, guru@halcyon.com (Dennis Wicks) writes:
> In article <1992Aug15.193726.23965@ole.cdac.com> ray@ole.cdac.com (Ray Berry) writes:
> >
> >	I doubt I'm the only one who has had the following experience:
> >
> >	1.  Seafirst credit card bill arrives- due date falls on a Saturday.
> >    2.  I walk into a Seafirst branch on that Saturday morning and make
> >        the payment.
> >    3.  The teller hands me a receipt which is POSTDATED to Monday.
> >    4.  My next statement arrives with a LATE CHARGE slapped on my account.
> >
> >    This strikes as a very deceptive practice.  Does anyone have a well-
> >    qualified opinion about the legality of this practice?  And what agency
> >    would be the appropriate one with which to file a formal complaint? TIA.
> >-- 
> >Ray Berry  kb7ht  ray@ole.UUCP  73407.3152@compuserve.com  /* inquire within */
> 
> Perfectly legal.  There are signs, placards, etc. that state
> something to the effect that transactions taking place after
> 3:00 PM and on Saturdays aren't posted until the following
> business day.  They may not be poster sized notices, but
> they are there.  I think that even some of the deposit
> receipts at some banks have a similar notice on them.


NO, the point is that he was making a payment to his Seafirst bill, not
a deposit to his checking account.  If a bill is due on the 21st, and you
pay it on the 21st, where is the cause for a late charge?
The real issue is, is Seafirst Bank authorized to accept payments for
a Seafirst Visa card?  It's possible they are separate organizations, and
the bank merely offers a service to forward payments to the Visa people.
In that case, the payment might well be late.  I know that my mortgage
is not deposited to the bank I got the loan from, even though I can make
my payment there.  It is just inter-office mailed to the other
organization.
Ray, you ought to call the customer service number on the Visa bill and explain
this to them.  I'd expect they would waive the late fee this time, and explain
to you how to make payments on those week-end days so this doesn't happen again.

-- 
Geoff Hazel                  | Haven't you got some real work to get 
gah2468@bcsaic.boeing.com    | done now?
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
From: nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse)
Subject: Seattle Online / polari
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Distribution: pnw
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 02:50:07 GMT



     If you are finding yourself without News or e-mail or Unix access because
you are getting a disconnect recording when you dial Seattle Online's numbers,
Eskimo North is here, up and available.

     I'd be happy to set you up with a UUCP and News.  Just send me e-mail.

     If you'd like to try Eskimo North call (206) 367-3837 and login as "new"
and we'll set up an account.  Eskimo North has been online for more than ten
years now.  The reliable alternative...

Newsgroups: uw.forsale,uw.general,seattle.general
From: adamy@milton.u.washington.edu (Erh-Chun Yeh)
Subject: Want to share 2bdr / 2ba apartment
Summary: Good Deal
Keywords: share housing, 2bdr / 2ba
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: seattle
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 07:48:38 GMT



============================================================================

Looking for a roommate to share 2 BDR / 2 BA apartment:

   * Triplex in nice, quite neighborhood
   * Located in lake city area (125th st. and 35th ave)
   * Convenient transportation:
              372, 78, 65, 75   to Hub
              25                to Montlake and downtown
              74, 72, 79        to U. district
              243               to Montlake and Bellevue
   * Private drive way and free parking lots in front
   * Big living room and full kitchen
   * Lots of closets + extra huge storage 
   * Dishwasher & Laundry (coin-op) 
   * Near shopping center and supermarkets
   * Rent: $295/mo + 200 deposit
   * Lease is negotiable
   * Available on Sept. 1st (earlier is ok)

   I'd like to share the apartment with a quite, mature student 
   (prefer graduate student).   No smoking/pets/alcohol, please.

   If you are interested, please call 367-9360 Adam Yeh or leave a message.
   You can also reply to this email address.
Newsgroups: seattle.general