HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Reports on Amelia Earhart
Date: 8 Apr 92 03:23:32 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Labs, Livermore CA

In article <n7pj21.anson@netcom.com> anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes:
>Recently, a friend asked me about the reports of finding Amelia Earhart's
>remains on an island in the Pacific.

>I remember hearing something about this, but don't know the details.  Does
>anyone have any more info (such as what island, etc.)?

	I saw a couple of news blurbs about it a couple of weeks back.
It was not the remains of Amelia Earhart herself that these people had
found in the South Pacific, just some items that come from the
appropriate time, such as part of a woman's shoe. Its discoverers hope
to do more exploring, in the hopes of finding more wreckage.

	The island was a fairly small one, but surrounded with enough
beach to land on. There was no fresh water and not much food, so if
Earhart and her navigator survived, they would have died in a couple
of days. 

	I'm sure that the story will wind up in some on-line news
index, such as NewsBank, before long. One can find such a thing at
some well-stocked public library.
Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: The Big Debate!
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:31:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.+_qj9jn.sheaffer
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


  The following originated on Paranet, and was posted to "alt.alien.visitors":

In <123584.29DD28FF@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes:


On April 24, 1992, MICAP (Multi-national Investigations Cooperative on Aerial
Phenomena), in conjunction with ParaNet Information Service, will sponsor an 
illustrated forum on contrasting viewpoints within the UFO research community. 
This forum will be moderated before a live audience with questions following 
the presentation.  The guests will be Don Ecker, Research Director for UFO 
Magazine and a long-standing contributor of ParaNet, and Phil Klass, avionics 
editor (retired) for Aviation Weekly and Space Technology, and known among the 
UFO research community as an avid detractor of the ETH (Extra-Terrestrial 
Hypothesis).  Ecker will demonstrate that the phenomena has a basis in reality 
and that it has potential implications for possible non-prosaic explanations, 
whereas Klass will demonstrate a prosaic/earthly explanation for mysterious and 
seemingly inexplicable UFO incidents.

The "square-off" will begin at 7:00 P.M., at the Denver North Holiday Inn 
Holidome at I-25 and 120th Avenue.  The title of the presentation is UFOs? 
Modern Myth, Manifest Technology, or ...?

This will be an interesting exchange of ideas and information and is expected 
to attract skeptics, believers and the intellectually curious.  For ticket 
inforamtion, please contact MICAP at (303)431-8796.  Hotel accomodations are 
available at reasonable rates.
-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs 
     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."
       
                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: WILL OUR GVT IMPLANT OUR CHILDREN?
Date: 15 Apr 92 00:02:06 GMT

So you bloody skeptics think it can't happen here huh??? Wake Up!!!!!Comments
in upper case are all mine!

Samurai_Writer



----- Begin Included Message -----

Article 93648 of talk.politics.misc:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thursday, 9 Apr 1992 08:39:04 EDT
From: John A. Johnson <J5J@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,sci.physics
Subject: Physics and Parapsychology: Reputation of Jack Sarfatti

As an undergraduate I read Bob Toben's _Space-Time and Beyond:
Toward an Explanation of the Unexplainable_, which was partially
based on conversations with physicists Jack Sarfatti and Fred Wolf.

I am curious about how physicists whose ideas are used to support
parapsychological ideas are regarded by the physics establishment.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: misc
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 10:09:05 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.045504.7928@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:
>The reason it keeps raising its ugly head is simple. It's because there are
>two issues and only one issue has ever been addressed.
Damn, I love it when Derek pontificates. This is, of course,
blatantly wrong.

>The issue that has been addresed is that NOW life is HERE there is no
>contradiction between entropy and biological systems, as energy is
>being soaked up from the sun. And I think everbody accepts this.
You think wrong. It is repeatedly claimed that evolution
per se is in violation of the second law.

>The issue that has not been addressed is the STARTING of life, in a
>universe of increasing entropy. For this you have to postulate some
>sort of "bootstrapping" action.
What, you've never heard of photochemistry?

>And it is very difficult to understand how the "bootstrapping" happens
>out of a chaotic primordal stew.
Yes, it is, but it's not a second law issue. People are concerned because
it's a long--and misunderstood-- reaction sequence, not because it's
thermodynamically a problem.

>Any ideas? So that we can finally put this monster to rest.
No, because no possible idea would. The Second Law objection
to evolution is based on a fundamental postulational denial of
evolution and an acceptance of any idea, however wrongheaded, which
supports that denial, not upon scientific decision making.
-Ekr


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431, Honda CM400 rider          rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Yale University Department of Chemistry            We hack anything.
My mind is now for rent: C/Unix,Vacuum Tech,Machining,P-Chemist. Hire me, eh? 
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: puchm@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au (Richard Puchmayer)
Subject: noahs ark
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 11:45:27 GMT

Hi
    Did anyone hear about this guy 'finding' noahs ark?
    We had it on TV a few days ago.  Just wanted to know who
    else knew about this and what you think of it.

    Richard.
--
Richard Puchmayer == puchm@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au      | Some of us are poets,
Masters Student at Curtin University of Technology, WA.|  some of us are not!
-------------------------------------------------------+------------------------
I know nothing, so can hold no opinions for myself or others...
From: pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Psychics in Casinos
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:55:19 GMT
Organization: Florida State University, but I don't speak for them

In article <1992Apr14.083736@IASTATE.EDU> danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A 
Ashlock) writes:
>    This would seem to be an excellent concentrating mechanism for 
psychic 
> ability; have any of the paranormal research groups tried to obtain the
> gambling blacklist as a pool from which to aquire volunteers or hire 
> subjects?

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Seriously, though, although casinos certainly do keep people from winning 
some games too much, they do so to increase their profit.  In the case of 
parimutuel betting, such as horse racing and lotteries, however, the 
profit that they make does not depend on who wins or how much is won.  So, 
in this case, casinos have no motivation to prevent one person from 
winning time and time again.  In fact, they should be motivated to 
encourage it, as the presence of somebody on a "hot streak" tends to 
encourage others to bet.

Eric Pepke                                    INTERNET: pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET:   pepke@fsu
Florida State University                      SPAN:     scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                    BITNET:   pepke@fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Nazca "Airfields"?
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:26:44 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo) writes:
> Solved problem.  The UFO base was moved to Mt Shasta in California, and the
> UFO's now follow the magneto-psycho-newageo-energy emanating from the LA basi
> as their outer marker.  Because they now use a more advanced version of a
> microwave landing system, provided by those paragons of Higher Power
> engineering, the Pleidians, from their seven star system, they are able to
> approach through any of three flight corridors, over Easter Island, Macchu
> Picchu, or the Bermuda Triangle.
> 
        reminds me very little of the time I was at one of My Fave Hangouts, 
a local coffee shop, and some of the regulars had recently returned from the 
Rainbow Gathering. One person-- an ex-girlfriend-- said that the most 
irritating thing was that everyone called you 'Brother' and 'Sister' and 
hugged you no matter HOW unpleasant you made yourself to avoid hugs.

        But my friend Dave introduced me to these two guys who'd also 
returned. "You oughta talk to Brian about that," he said, tugging me over. 
"He reads a lot about that stuff." So I sat down, and was promptly treated to 
a lecture about how the aliens were living in a base underneath Mount Shasta, 
and that they'd travelled there astrally while touring the power centers at 
the Pyramids (including a few undiscovered pyramids in Peru), and that to 
demonstarte their presence the aliens had moved Mount Shasta "ten feet to the 
left." I asked how they'd learned all of this. "This guy told us all about 
it," one of them said. "It's just sorta... well, we were tripping the whole 
weekend, and there's a _lot_ more to the story."

        I'm _never_ dropping acid again. Ever.


Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  revpk@cellar.org
...Saure really turns out to be an adept at the difficult art of papryomancy,
the ability to prophesy through contemplating the way people roll reefers -
the shape, the licking pattern, the wrinkles and folds or absence thereof
in the paper.  "You will soon be in love," sez Saure, "see, this line here."
"It's long, isn't it?  Does that mean --" "Length is usually intensity.
Not time."                       -- Thomas Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
From: rdnelson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger D Nelson)
Subject: Re: studying psi in the US
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:18:25 GMT

In article <34991@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> fnord@pine.circa.ufl.edu writes:
>I'm curious of any programs in Parapsychology at colleges/universities in
>the USA.  Are there any that offer a good number of courses?  Are there
>degree programs? (is it respectable yet?)
>
>I would be interested in finding out more about the programs in this field,
>as well as names, places, and such.

I am not aware of any "programs in Parapsychology" at colleges in the
USA offering a good number of courses, although there may be some.  For
the most part, parapsychology if addressed at all in university
offerings, is treated in a course or two given by a professor with the
interest, most often in a psychology department.  Most professional
researchers, when asked where or how to study parapsychology recommend
getting a sound education in a standard professional discipline like
psychology, physics, medicine, etc., then from that foundation proceed
with research in the field of interest.

Roger
From: pl160988@mtecv2.mty.itesm.mx (Ivan Ordonez-Reinoso)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: NP-Hard problems
Keywords: NP-Hard, test, clairvoyance
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:10:13 GMT
Organization: I.T.E.S.M. Campus Monterrey

>>Has anybody ever performed a test like this? If the existence of psychic
>>phenomena is so evident, why is it that I never heard of psychics doing
>>things like that?

>Could you do this?  Does the ability you have observed extend to this
>sort of challenge?

No, I can't do it; if I could, I wouldn't be skeptical about it. I would
be making zillions of dollars by solving previously unsolvable problems.
As you pointed, my guessing of diseases was not performed under lab
conditions; I could have been lucky, I could have received some kind of
feedback via the body language of the person who was asking me to guess
the diseases, or I could have been cheated. I have not tried to repeat
the experience, but I don't feel I could do it again. However, I think
that psychic phenomena could really exist, and I prefer to remain
agnostic about it.

>Dontcha hate people who apologise for poor English but don't make any
>grammatical or spelling errors?  :-)

I promise to make some mistakes in the future... :)

Ivan Ordonez-Reinoso
pl160988@mtecv2.mty.itesm.mx
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:8023 talk.religion.misc:6752
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: The Historical Jesus IV: Was Luke an Eyewitness?
Keywords: historical jesus, creation/evolution debate, gospel of Luke
Date: 11 Apr 92 20:48:33 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:

>[1](119)
>	Luke is the only evangelist who directly addresses his reader(s)
>as an author (Lk 1:1-4) ... Luke distinguishes himself from the 
>eyewitnesses ... Lk is definitely a sub-apostolic work.
>... c.90 would be a good date.
I disagree.  Since the author of Acts and Luke appear to be the same
person, and there is no real reason to disbelieve this that I know of, the
books are tied together.  Acts refers to Luke as a prior work.  In dating
Acts, the absence of numerous important events seems to indicate an early
date for Luke.  These are the destruction of the Temple in 70AD, Paul's
death (and Peter's) ca 67AD, and the burning of Rome in 64AD, along with the
persecution of Christians there.  Thus asssigning a date for Acts earlier
than 67 (at least, since it is hard to believe the martyrdom of Paul would
have been left out) moves Luke much earlier than the date of 90 presented
above.


>[2](151)
>	The name of the author is nowhere named in the Lukan two volumes.
So what?  Only the fact that the books were written by the same person
matters.  And that person appears to have travelled with Paul.

>...The ancient church tradition begins with the statement of Irenaeus...
>...Probably this tradition, which relates Luke to Paul and thereby brings
>the third Gospel at least indirectly in relation to an apostle, is 
>somewhat older than Irenaeus. ...The data from the ancient church tradition
>thus receives no support from an investigation of the Gospel of Luke and Acts.
>...we can say with confidence that the Gospel Luke originated after Mark.
>...is to be dated about A.D. 90
I agree that it is certainly after Mark, but not nearly as late as 90AD.
Luke states in the Gospel that he has done much investigation and spoken
with eyewitnesses.  As such, your 'proof' that he was not an eyewitness is
a tautology.

>[4](174)
>	...All that can be said is that the author of Acts may have utilized
>as one of his sources a travel account concerning Paul... he stands with
>the other two synoptics, since the basic outline he follows derives from
>Mark, with supplemental material from Q, in addition to his own...
Which of course makes perfect sense since he was looking for other accounts
and speaking to eyewitnesses.  His Gospel is much more like a history, and
uses as much reference material as possible.  Just as you do.


Even 'Luke' himself doesn't claim to be an eyewitness.  Why did you have to
*prove* he wasn't?

  -Steve
-- 
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: craig@jido.b11.ingr.com (Craig Presson)
Subject: Matriarchy revisited
Reply-To: craig@jido.b11.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, Alabama
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:03:49 GMT


I seem to have lost track of my copy of the article this is a
followup to, but it was the one in which the book,

Tavris, Carol, and Wade, Carole, _The Longest War: Sex Differences
in Perspective_, 2nd ed., Harcourt, Brace, Jovanovitch, 1984

was recommended. The implication was that we would get examples of
matriarchies from a review of the anthropological literature
contained therein. This turns out to be false, and is in fact
repeatedly disclaimed in the text. However, the book is fairly
objective and is worth reading as a throughtful summary of the
subject of sex roles. Skipping ahead to chapter 8, The Anthropo-
logical perspective, and reading to the end, will give a sufficient
overview for those interested in the narrower question of the
status of women in a variety of cultures. One very interesting
observation is made in the course of a meta-analysis of twelve
societies in which the status of women ranged from very high
(Yoruba, Iroquois) to very low (Somali, Toda) -- Sanday (1974)
seems to have shown that high status for women occurs most often 
in societies where the women contribute close to half of the
sustenance, rather than the least or even the most (75%). This
appears on p. 329 of the paperback. The fit is pretty good, except
that the Somali are an an outlier on the suggested bell curve, and
I wonder about sampling effects.

At any rate, it's fair to say that this chapter identifies the
Yoruba, the Iroquois, and the Samoans, as traditional cultures
providing high status for women. Whether any of these qualify
as "matriarchies" is, as has been pointed out, a matter of
interpretation.

If there is an agenda in this book, it is to make a case that
cultures are evolving toward an alliance between the sexes,
after the millenia of male domination and sex-role strife.
I reserve judgement on whether they have made a case that this
is happening, as I did not read the entire book.

Sorry to bring this up again after the thread has probably expired
everywhere, including in the enthusiasm of the newsgroup, but that's
how long it took me to get the book through interlibrary loan and
find time to read it.






--
--  *************************-><-*************************
    ** Craig Presson              pressonc@ingr.com     **
    ** Intergraph Corporation             MS CR1104     **
    ** Huntsville, AL 35894-0001     (205) 730-6176     **
    *************************-><-*************************
"The free man asks neither what he can do for his country,
nor what it can do for him." -- Milton Friedman
From: David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org (David Rice)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: the myth of jesus
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 14:57:34 PDT
Organization: Universal Electronics Inc. (Public access BBS)

Tag: Greg Lampard
Tag: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes:
 
>The Church has NO evidence to support it's belief system. You are to
>believe something solely because they _tell_ you it is true.
 
GL> "Wrong again. The fundamental historical facts are the life,
GL> death and resurrection of Jesus as recorded in the gospels.
GL> Christianity is founded on this historical basis, it didn't
GL> appear out of thin air. I suggest you read up on the historical
GL> reliability of the New Testament documents before making any
GL> more sweeping generalizations."
 
Wrong. I suggest you read "The Pagan Origins of Jesus Christ" to
learn how the myth was borrowed from preceeding civilizations. Or
Joseph Campbells works. The fact that there is no evidence of
jesus having existed (other than the pick-pocket Titalius briefly
mentions) seems to refute your unsupported assertion. Josephus
wrote his "histories" upon the force of being politically correct.
 
I'd also suggest you read Alegro's "The Dead Sea Scrolls." He was
briefly in charge of translating the codex. He found that the
Essenes had a jesus that predated the Jewish one by at least 100
years---- the Jewish version taking verbatium in some cases the
words and phrases first atributed to the Essene Messiah.
 
You will also find that Alegro makes a good case for Christianity
having started as, in his words, "A mushroom cult," where the
original cult members worshiped narcotic mushrooms.
 
Try as they might, no one has demonstrated that the Jewish jesus
existed, let alone was the master occultist we read about in the
Christian Testimate. When Grant Edwards stated that the Christian
cult has no evidence to support its' beliefs, he is 100% correct.
 
"The Gospels," by the way, were written at least a hundred years after
Herod's time. It was the artistic and theological practice of the
time to write an "inspired" work and attribute a reveared historical
or mythological figure as its' writer. Hince the glaring discrepancies
between "the four gospels." Newage Weenies call this type of writing
"channeling---" the books of Mathew, Mark, John and Luke were channeled
by writers who did not live until well after jesus was said to have died.
 
You may go to any well-stocked library and find the truth. Please.
 
[..stuff deleted..]
 
> Greg Lampard g.lampard@trl.oz.au Telecom Australia
> Research Laboratories

--  

David Rice
Internet: David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org
Compuserve: >internet:David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Subject: Re: Sensible interpretation of the unknown (was: I don't know).
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:13:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.092904@IASTATE.EDU>, danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) writes:
>   If we don't know if it exists then the sensible default assumption is that
>it doesn't exist.

Not always.  The Japanese didn't believe a nuclear bomb existed until
mid-August, 1945.  In choosing a "sensible default assumption," you need to
look at the possible consequences of being wrong.

>The extensive negative results and weak positive results for psi
>indicate the current sensible assumption about psi is that it doesn't exist.

Here I agree with you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.