HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: PC (was Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:42:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.044820.6874@leland.Stanford.EDU> mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.
EDU (Mike Lloyd) writes:
>sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley) writes:
>: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd) writes:
>: >sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley) writes:
>: >:Liberation is not "Don't say bad things about me."  Liberation is "Fuck
>: >:you, I don't care what you think."  That's why PC-speak is so stupid.
>: >
>: >So speaks a white male.
>:
>: So speaks a human being.  So types a human hand.  So thinks a human mind.
>: This "white male" crap is not worthy of a response.  I will not have what
>: I say devalued because of my race and my gender.  Sexist!  Racist!  I puke
>: on your PC-ness, since it's so obviously a lie.
>
>But I think it is worth of response.  Like I said, calling you a white
>male is not an attack, since I do not feel it is a bad thing to be
>white, or to be male.  I'd be a hypocrite if I did.  What I was doing
>was observing the strong correlation between the logic you used, and
>white males.  Do you deny this connection?  Do you deny that it is of
>interest?

I deny that is of interest in the context of the discussion about what
constitutes liberation and oppression.  If we were talking about white
males, stereotypes, or the correlation between sociopolitical beliefs
and race or gender, it would be of interest.

If I had said, "I think there could be life on other planets." and you
had responded with "So speaks a white male." it would have sounded silly
to everyone.  I'm saying that your response was just as silly in this
case.

Steve
sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
From: vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Vashti Galpin)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Images in the media
Date: 5 Nov 92 12:00:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: concave.vashti.720964807
Organization: Good grief, I've run out of things to put here

Last night, I saw the BBC production of `Oranges are not the Only
Fruit' based on Jeanette Winterson's book (It's about a lesbian growing
up in Lancashire). It was the first time that I have ever watched a
film with lesbian characters that were real. It was excellent, and it
made me think that if the world could see more things like this, the
GLB cause would really be advanced. The love between two women came
across as natural and right. I'm probably being too optimistic, but it
may explain why Measures 9 and 2, and Clause 28 (if that's the right
number) were proposed, because the homophobes know that people will
accept homosexuality and bisexuality if it is presented as normal.

The film was shown at a film festival which is why the censors were
happy to allow it through. I guess they reckon that a once-off audience
of 100 people is not going to corrupt the morals of the whole country.
The censorship in this country has lightened up with respect to
violence and heterosexual sex (but with the usual double standards,
female nudity is fine, male nudity isn't) but I saw in the newspaper
that shops that are importing GLB books from overseas are having a lot
of problem getting them through customs, even books on safe sex. It
really makes me angry.

Vashti

--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Vashti Galpin                      vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za
Department of Computer Science, University of the Witwatersrand
2050 Wits, South Africa.  Tel 27(11)716-3295 Fax 27(11)403-1926
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss,alt.polyamory
From: spam@iastate.edu (mike begley)
Subject: Re: I'm going to be on TV Thursday night!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 04:15:54 GMT

In article <1dp4g0INN26a@milk.Warren.MENTORG.COM> tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
>Laura (laura@plts.uucp), myself and one other person should be on a
>talk-show on CNBC Thursday night, 10pm (the time might be wrong).  The
>topic will be 3somes.

Arrrg.  Turns out our cable company only shows CNBC during the day;
they broadcast Country Music TV (gaaack) during the evening.  So
I missed it.

Anyway, would anyone be willing to post or mail a transcript of the show?
Did it go well...?

-mike




-- 
Michael Begley             Ask me how           "the man and the woman were
spam@iastate.edu      Iowa State University        both naked, and they were
(515) 233-6210    is censoring my usenet access      not ashamed..." Gen:2.25
From: thom@crayfish.ucsd.edu (Thom Cleland)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Bisexual libertariansn ear
Date: 7 Nov 1992 23:55:32 GMT
Organization: Tenuous at best
NNTP-Posting-Host: crayfish.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Nov6.231754.8252@Princeton.EDU> datepper@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Aaron Tepper) writes:
>Interesting that Steve Conley pointed out that a lot of bisexuals are
>libertarians. I am one myself--I've got the card and everything! Could
>this be a trend?

Don't know about the trend.  What I have noticed  (not a scientific sampling)
is that some of the 'new libertarians' choose their affiliation more or less
solely to protest taxation, and have little time to spare to defend the 
"freedom of the unpopular".  I know professed libertarians who support the
gag rule, increased police powers, federal review of the arts  (as opposed
to simply cutting all arts funding), and delight in mocking liberation
movements to a degree which would bestir the black heart of Pat Buchanan
(one such 'libertarian' even sent money to his presidential campaign)..

My tendency to categorize causes me to lump libertarian thought into two
segments, those who defend individual freedom as a matter of primary
principle and those ("wealthy, archconservative" are stereotypes)  who
see it as a tool to prevent social review of their behavior  (zoning being
but one example, antidiscrimination laws another).  

I favor limited government, but the Republicans built up the pernicious
power of the state faster and more fully than the Democrats ever could, 
and I fear that the Libertarians are, in the balance, more populated by
my second category than by the first.  At least with the Democrats we
get a platform, rhetoric, and hopefully action structured around an
outright commitment to civil rights, choice, pluralism, and other shards
of freedom.  Perhaps the health care and education initiatives which
Clinton spoke of will better prepare a following generation to solve the
problems that we may not.  


>More to the point, how hospitable has the LP been to non-heteros
>compared to the Democrats or Republicans?
>

don't know... the few LP documents that I've read say nothing about thet
the issue.

>David A. Tepper

Thom!


-- 
Thom Cleland     \ /^^/  >Neural systems/network physiology< >Amigaphile<  
(619) 453-7516    \OO/  >Aoinagi Shito-ryu == bend, and the wind passes <
tcleland@ucsd.edu  ++  >B3 f cdv g++ k+(+) m s+ r+ p growl+ purr++ zzz- <
"Wild magic is graven in every rock, every tree, in every blade of grass" 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count)
Subject: Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:08:34 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.024331.4960@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:
> gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>> kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count) writes:
>>>Not all people who belive in tarot or astrology are new age 
>>>fanatics.
>>
>>No, but they're still raving nutters whatever brand of lunacy
>>they adhere to.
>
>Bollocks. Gods, what a reasoned debate. Tarot and astrology are patterns -
>just as valid or just as junky as any patterns you use to manipulate reality.
>They're not scientifically exact, but then very little emotional or intangible
>matters are quantifiable.
>
>New age fanatics annoy me by being completely vaporous rather than by being
>nutters per se. Nutters who can reason are my kind of people: random stupid
>nutters whether Christians, Democrats, Republicans, Conservatives, Labourites
>or New Agers are not.
>

This was basically what I was trying to say.  All groups have people that
take a viewpoint to an extreme and in effect go off the deep end.  
Also in any group, no matter how crazy the general concept of that group
may be to some, you will find people that can and do reason and think and 
in fact can carry on a very good conversation.

later,

kraig
.
From: tdober@llnl.gov (TDO)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:32:15 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi
Organization: llnl

In article <BxBDyH.6vE@cck.coventry.ac.uk>, idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the
Crisco Kid) wrote:

> In article <1992Nov6.172429.10416@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells) writes:
> >As for you, Kay, I've never seen you rave.  *blows kiss*
> >Although that might be fun sometime . . .  ;)

> Come on over.  Bring chocolate biscuits; I'll supply the tea and the fire,
> and then... RAVE ON! :)

Sorry to spoil all your fun (and I *really* shouldn't be adding my $0.02 to
this thread at this late date) but....

The original question, and Kay's answer, dealt with "What's rampant
bisexuality like when it's at home?"                        ^^^^^^^

Not "raving".

Sorry, Kay; if you want to prove you can rave, you'll just have to try
again!  :-)


> 				Kay


TDO
--
#include "StdDisclaimer.h"

Pain, like time, is going to come on regardless. Question is, what glorious
moments can you win from life in addition to the pain? -- Lois McMaster
Bujold, _Barrayar_
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Olaf's address
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:00:04 GMT

In <ARM200-921108012337-62AD40A4*@MHS>
/G=Owen/S=Smith/O=SJ-Research/ADMD=INTERSPAN/C=GB/@mhs-relay.ac.uk writes:
>[...] Anyway, here is Olaf's snail mail address:
>[...]
>+31-80-561030     (the 80 might be 00 - dodgy hand writing)

The "80" is correct.


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
From: ahb0@aber.ac.uk (Anna He Baik)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: .sig
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:09:01 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth


Awwww......Hugs & swsus mawr from a fellow muffin then!
eek....leapt into this without checking out wot i gotta do to 
post this....erm...wibble!
swsus,
yon
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells)
Subject: Re: Tackling the Bible (longish)
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:41:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.223446.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> vbaker@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>
>Vincent
>
>This has been a (perhaps overdue) de-muffining, by the way.  :-)

First of all, thank you for an impressive article.
Secondly, that was one hell of a de-muffining.  I wish I could have
 sounded that intelligent when _I_ de-muffined.

Thirdly . . .

NEW MUFFIN!  YAY!

*pounce*
*lick*

*lots of big bear hugs*

Welcome to the group.  :)

Darren
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Women and I: An Explanation?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 05:32:36 GMT

tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:
: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd) writes:
: [on Muffy and certain demonstrations]
: >
: >Say, T, would a willing volunteer help?  [Mike makes his cilium super,
: >hopefully to different effect from:]
: 
: Are you operating in English in those brackets? Or is this some nice new
: analogue to Valspeak and jive: retro-hippy?

Ah, splendid idea!  A program which inserts excessive verbiage, replete
with clauses of dubious subordination, typoes and speling errors, and
general sentence extenders (with rampant parenthesis infecting most
constructs, requisite or otherwise)!  Write it, sit it on a fence, and
give it long hair, and I'd be out of a job ... or perhaps I'd just gain
a new role model.

As for my cilium, super or just regular, I'm sure some of our local
Latin scholars can help out, even if linguam latinam nono habeo ...
Kay, amongst others, is likely to have the necessary anatomical bilinguality.
Alternately, check the etymology (or was it entomology?  I always
forget :-) of superciliousness in your handy Funk and Wagnalls.

hugs
Mike, in whose family "Funk and Wagnalls" was a standard epithet ...
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- c g+ k+ s m- e? |"Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and        | Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion            |     - Bruce Cockburn
    "It's only knock and knowall, but I like it" - Genesis (the first one)
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Good Vibrations Catalog
Date: 13 Nov 1992 11:58:56 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd) writes:
->
->>*LAUGH*  Now >THAT'S< a political action; leaving a vibrator catalog
->>lying around in a straight pub/restaurant for some unexpecting vanilla
->>het to stumble over!  I feel like a Gideon ... :-)

Well, Mike and David were both sort of wondering where their catalogs went
...

Awww ... everyone pity them real fast.  

Now, in case either of them is interested in a catalog (since I would never
think of depriving anyone of the pleasures of the stuff GV sells), or anyone
else is who isn't in the SF area, calling (415) 974-8990 between 10AM-6PM
(PST) except for tuesday, 12PM-6PM, and asking for a catalog, I think will 
generally net you one.

This is quoted from their fall 1992 catalog, which I'm holding right now (I
got it for a friend! Honest! (yes, I know I was supposed to mail it to her a
week ago.  She can wait until I get another copy which I'll actually mail
her).).

*sigh* I was looking through it today ... my wish-list (which includes some
things I would have otherwise made myself (I do not plan to pay $56/pair for
leather cuffs.  No way, considering how much I think I'll end up paying when
I make them)) comes down to $635 ... 

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with GV.  I haven't even bought anything
from GV ... But everyone deserves to have a penis or three if they want them.

-roy, waiting for the flames.

-- 
Roy S. Rapoport          rsr@soda.berkeley.edu             rsr@ocf.berkeley.edu
"Letters from you make me feel good."  -Laura Creighton
"Why do you guys all have to have penises?" -anon
DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it, but I doubt anyone else did."
From: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Anarchocapitalists (was: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals)
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:39:20 GMT
Reply-To: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Organization: Do they make a washing powder called Caliban Automatic?

In article <1992Nov7.004717.8236@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley) writes:
>
>Well, I always thought materialism and capitalism went hand-in-hand, or so
>the Marxists kept telling me.

You know some pretty funny Marxists.  The Marxists I know *are*
materialists.

There are several subjects such that everyone *thinks* they understand
them, however little they actually know.  Among them is evolution,
feminism, and Marxism.
  __                                ____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \  /
/\__/ "I'm the boy without a soul"   \/
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Vashti Galpin)
Subject: Re: Bisexual libertarianism ear
Organization: Wits University Electrical Engineering
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:41:58 GMT

In <1992Nov8.022005.16228@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley) writes:
>I'm not sure.  A lot of libertarians are people who've been influenced
>by Heinlein, who (at least in some cases) seems to be fairly bi-positive.
>Polyamory groups like Touchpoint advertise in the ISIL World Freedom
>Bulletin.  I don't know how many openly queer libertarians there are,
>but I've often considered starting a publication by, for, and about
>LGB folks in the Libertarian movement.  I don't know of _any_ gay or
>lesbian libertarians, but I'm sure there are some.

My own experiences of libertarians in South Africa has been very
negative.  The majority seem to be white males who would benefit the
most by the lack of governement intervention. One of their major
spokespeople had the cheek to talk on television of `the right to
starve' while wearing a suit that would feed a number of South African
families for a month.  And they are so smug about it. They do not seem
prepared to argue for their point of view --- if you don't agree with it
you are stupid, because it is so obvious. And they never speak about 
gay rights, and I feel that they would do so reluctantly.

(What I have said seems quite harsh, but please note it is my
impressions of South African libertarians, don't flame me too severely,
unless you can show that my impressions are wrong)
                                                                ____
                                                                \bi/
Vashti                                                           \/
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Vashti Galpin                      vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za
Department of Computer Science, University of the Witwatersrand
2050 Wits, South Africa.  Tel 27(11)716-3295 Fax 27(11)403-1926
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.)
Subject: Re: PC (was Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...)
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:36:30 GMT

In article <BxH96J.D93@dcs.ed.ac.uk> pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:
>					...  I had assumed that the term
>"PC" was coined by the Right, to give the impression that left-wingers
>were trying to stifle original political thought.  That anyone would
>identify with this term depresses me.

That's getting it backwards, but I don't suppose you can be blamed for that.

"PC" was coined by open-minded leftists, left liberals, anarcho-what-have-you's
to described closed-minded leftists.  "PIC" (Politically InCorrect) was another
common term of the time.

It has *since* been scooped up by New Rightists (many of whom were leftists at
one time, both closed-minded and open, but mostly closed, I believe.)

"PC" has now become a pejorative term of Politically Correct Rightists, though
I reserve the right to use it against closed-minded people everywhere, at least
so far as I can perceive this quality.
---
Michael Turner
miket@tcs.com
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Subject: Re: Looking for INFO
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:54:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.185422.25103@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> barlow@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Rebel) writes:

>to make a change.  I was hoping someone might have some useful statistics,
>quotes, trivia that we might use for a poster series to litter the campus
>
>the type of info we need....catchy, eye catching, witty quotes and stats to
>wake up the university... Does anyone have such sources?
>
>Jen

Well, here at U of D we have two different organizations, one is moderate
LGB Student Union, and one is radical Queer Campus.  They use different
tactics but both use posters.  Some of the more mainstream ideas from these
groups;
	Statistics on the number of hate crimes in the area or NY(prob. NAACP)
specifically hate crimes realated to sexual orientation. 
	The idea that 1 in 10 (ish) is G or L.
	The number of states with Sodomy laws, then just same sex sodomy laws.
	Anti-queer legistslation.

as far as slogans,
	"Fags and Dykes are really groovy; take one home or to a movie."
	"If you don't like `fucking faggots', try sucking them"
	"Why do we scare you?"
	or maybe just general posters about what gay, lesbian, bisexual,etc
mean. 
	Try and dispel some rumors which are prevelant on your campus.
	"What would you do if your brother was beaten up by a gang of
skinheads?  What if your brother were gay?"

I cannot emphasize enough that some slogans are not appropriate for
all circumstances.(the fucking faggots one in particular).  Sometimes
they do more help than good.  Test the water.  Feel the situation.  See if
it is right or if they will help.  I have others if you would like to email
me.  I blatantly stole some of the above from QC.  Please forgive me.

Subverting today for a better tomorrow,(another rip-off)

		
-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    
               SILENCE = DEATH    
This is not a black and white world,
to be alive I believe the colors must be swirled- Live.~
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Homophobic garbage
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:26:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxKB4n.8tD
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Nov11.102603.21962@nwnexus.WA.COM> elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.014818.676@ab.wvnet.edu> onda@ab.wvnet.edu writes:
>
>
>   Elf: 1, Assorted assholes: 0

And the crowd goes wild!!!  Go ELF!!!
Why don't some people get a clue?

Are they so insecure with their own sexuality that they must go around
bashing other people for theirs?

 
-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    
               SILENCE = DEATH    
This is not a black and white world,
to be alive I believe the colors must be swirled- Live.~
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Altruism
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 19:15:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.172457.7936@ultb.isc.rit.edu> kdc5072@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.D. Colagio) writes:
>What about someone who helps others purely for the others sake?  Does this
>fall under altruist actions?  Let me give an example...
>
>    Helping to point out the things that make life worth living so that 
>    someone does not commit suicide.
>
>    Helping someone come to terms with their bi/homo-sexuality, so that they
>    can be the person that is them, and not what others want.
>
>I have one both of these (and other things) with no self interest in mind,
>but rather to help the other person.  Does this lower the way that people
>perceive me?  So far, most people think this shows more to me than to those
>who are selfish (yes, friends (and enemies) have told me this...) so how can
>helping someone in an unselfish manner hurt either party (assuming the help
>is to a moderate level...)?

Dunno about the other two participants in this conversation, but for me, 
I'm making no value judgement about altruistic *or* selfish behaviour.
I don't perceive you as better or worse for the two things you did;
I've done the same in fact.  But when I tried to help a friend through
an emotional time I did it because, ultimately, I couldn't have lived
with my conscience if I hadn't.  I did it to better my own sense of
well-being, if you will.  I'm just trying to point out that altruism
and selfishness aren't opposites - they're the same.  It's just the
parameters that have different values.

The only value judgement I'll admit to is that I'm disappointed when
people claim superiority for an altruistic act when the act should
stand on its own regardless of the motivation.

To quote Gordon Gecko, "Greed is good.  Greed works".  Even if it's
a greedy desire to feel good about doing things for others.

(This incidentally is why I have real problems with 'do-gooders' and
inappropriate charity efforts.  For some of them it's often more than
obvious that the true recipients of the charity effort are the workers
who get an enormous feelgood-factor out of it.)

G
--