From: mike@isgtec.com (Mike Sellers)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Biblical Error (was Re: True Christianity vs. The Myth of Mormonism)
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:39:46 GMT
Organization: ISG Technologies Inc., Mississauga Ontario

muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
> In article <adams.703283256@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
> >muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
> >>The Bible has been transmitted at the very least somewhat more
> >>accurately than any other ancient literature we know of, and at best
> >>idea for idea.  Its popularity has kept it accurate. 
> >
> >What?!?  The Roman Catholic Church maintained tight controls over the
> >document until the Reformation.  The Reformation, along with printing-
> >press developments, moved the Bible into the hands of the people.
> >
> >The Vulgate contains errors in translation from the Greek.  And the LXX
> >documents contain errors in translation from the Hebrew.  The King James,
> >or Authorized, Version contains numerous errors along these lines, because
> >of the source documents.  Now, a number of translations are become available
> >based on early documents, not on these two error-prone, and oft-quoted
> >texts.
> 
> The very fact that we know these errors exist is not reason to believe that
> there are errors which have gone undetected.  Trust God a little, man.
> I am confident that He will make known any errors that pop up.  

Waaaait a minute there.  Earlier you said that the Bible contains no
errors.  Then (above) you said that it is "somewhat more accurate" 
than other ancient manuscripts.  *THEN* you say that even though we
know that errors exist, its okay because we've caught them all!  Well,
which is it?  Are there errors or aren't there?  If there are errors,
how do we know we've caught them all?  What about all those Christians
over the past 1900 years or so who worked with a very different (and
apparently much more error-filled) set of scriptures than you are
priviledged to work with?  

It seems like you're trying to say that the Bible is never wrong, 
except that it is in those places we've already found.  Verrry convenient.

> You must
> admit that the Bible is unique among all books both as far as circulation and
> individual translations are concerned.  The goal of the Catholic church was,
> and is, to keep what was written accurate.  I am aware of the control tactics
> of the early Catholic church, which is why the Bible was kept out of the
> hands of the commoner.  This does not mean that they changed the Bible, and
> in fact there is every evidence that they maintained the Bible to the best of
> their ability.

Ah, but "to the best of their ability" is not the same as *totally* accurate.
Suppose they dropped a verse or two, or added in some commentary.  Would
that be okay, so long as it was the best they could do?  How do you *know*
which is which?

> >So the idea that 'popularity' protected the meaning of the Bible is
> >ludicrous.  It wasn't popularly available.  Heck, most people couldn't
> >have read it, if it had been available.
> 
> There are now billions of copies, most of which have been laboriously checked
> and cross-checked and researched until they turn to dust and all of them
> (with _very_ minor errors) preach the same gospel.  

Yes, but what have they been checked against?  Copies of copies of
what someone tens or *hundreds* of years earlier said they saw or heard
someone else say!  And you're *sure* that no one got any of that wrong
over all those years?  And you're also sure that no non-canonical books
were inserted, nor that any canonical books were left out?

> There is some element of
> faith needed in accepting the infallibility of the Bible, 

And now you've gone back to saying it's infallible.  Well, which is it?

Is in error-free, 
Or does it contain errors (but we've found them all)
Or does it contain errors but at least its more accurate than 
any other ancient manuscript?  

You really ought to take a single position on something this crucial.

> John M.

--
                    Mike Sellers       mike@isgtec.com
                        User Interface Team Leader
                    ISG Technologies, Toronto, Canada
            "Actum ne agas" -- Do not do what has been done.