HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Goof)
Subject: Re: Most Arab countries won't sign chemical weapons treaty
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:16:57 GMT

In article <30646@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
>In article <765363d6710747t277@witsend.uucp> dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions) writes:
>
>[re: use of nuclear weapons]
>
>->  Tragic for many reasons.  First of all, of course, is the loss of
>->  life, a horror beyond words.  Besides that, I love the US too much
>->  to want such a stain on our hands.
>
>Is there room alongside the one you got from Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
>
>By the way, do you want to repost this to misc.kids, just to show how
>anti-American I am?

	How easy it is to play Monday morning quaterback.

	Geoff

>
>
>
>-- 
>===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          
>
>Unauthorised access is a criminal offence under The Computer Misuse Act 1990.
>If you are a British Airways employee, disconnect NOW.


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

A .sig?  A .sig? We don't need no stinkin' .sigs!
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: islam & ethnicity
Date: 22 Jan 93 13:23:49 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

To: Karen Lee Givon

>According to Israel, a Jew is defined by his or her matrilineal
>bloodline. Thus a Soviet Jew who is an atheist, and who may have
>descended from parents or grandparents who are atheists, is still
>a Jew.

 KG> Most of these Soviet Jews did not have a choice in the
 KG> matter.

But Jews also played a major, activist role in the creation of
the Soviet Union, did they not? Many of them occupied high
positions in the Soviet regime by choice, not because a gun was
held at their head.

And many, if not most, of the founders and early leaders of
Israel, like David Ben-Gurion, were deeply immersed by choice in
the ideology of atheistic communism or socialism. The goyim
didn't force them to hold their beliefs; quite the contrary. Many
of these messianic Marxists tried to ram their beliefs down the
throats of others.

And yet within the Jewish system of identification, they are
still considered to be Jews on the basis of their bloodlines. One
is led inexorably to the conclusion that Jews in significant part
constitute an ethnic group in the biological sense.

In no way would any Christian denomination that I know identify
as a Christian the offspring of Christian parents who chose the
path of atheism and Marxism. Christianity is a belief system, not
an ethnic identification.
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  lurching from one messianic lamppost to the next
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26137 soc.culture.greek:12445 soc.culture.turkish:14840 soc.rights.human:4961
From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Be careful... The dirty plan...
Date: 26 Jan 1993 14:16:50 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mickey.think.com

In article <C1FKEG.601@imag.fr>, oueichek@imag.fr (Ibaa Oueichek) writes:
|> [Please Notice the followup line].
|> 
|>   Le roi est mort, vive le roi. IMHO, Rabin sucks more than Shamir, he has no 
|>   clear policy and he's very confusing. He managed to kick out more than 400
|>   Palestinians without trial, and convinced everyone that those people deserve
|>   it just by sticking the label "Fundamendalist" on them. I'm afraid this act
|>   is just a trial to test how far he can go, maybe the next time it won't be
|>   "only" 400 Palestinians, but 4000. Yet it's the same Rabin who should be 
|>   given the credit for the abolition of the anti-PLO law. This guy is really
|>   "fuzzy", and this lake of consistency is highly indesriable when you are
|>   dealing with him (at least with Shamir it was clear : Don't dream of peace).

He is not fuzzy at all.  A while back I posted an article on the things that
make Rabin tick.  He is very "black or white" judgemental.  A proponent
of the carrot and stick method of politics, when he took office, he offered
a "carrot", and released many detainees.  When this was followed by a
rise in the number of shootings and attacks, he wielded a bludgeon consisting
of deportation.  Thats what makes him tick, and it would benefit the
palestinians if they understood this.

|>   Well, i never heard such a statement from Shamir, but i'm certain this idea
|>   exists, and it's quite supported by several religious guys. Asking for a proof ?.
|>   The map of "Eretz Israel" was posted to soc.culture.arabic by a Jew (*), and
|>   it extended from the Euphrat to the Nile. I have no idea about the popularity
|>   of such claims, but i wonder about the mental helth of those who believe in
|>   it. I believe Ariel Sharon has already given such a statement.

Ariel Sharon is one of the most opportunistic populist politicians
active in the Likud.  A classic example of the Peter Principle.
I don't think he is mentally unbalanced, just unprincipled.

-- 
Shai Guday              | Stealth bombers,
OS Software Engineer    |
Thinking Machines Corp. |	the winged ninjas of the skies.
Cambridge, MA           |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim)
Subject: Re: Expelled Palestinians
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:04:45 GMT

In article <1k4qfiINNli6@gap.caltech.edu> damiens@cco.caltech.edu (Damien Sullivan) writes:
>Where was the international outcry when hundreds of thousands of 
>Palestinians were expelled from Kuwait after the US-Iraq war?  I
>am not arguing that Israel's expulsion was right but I don't think
>that the outrage expressed is proportionate.  My apologies if this
>point has been raised before.

The Palestinians living in Kuwait came from another country, namely Palestine,
those deported by Israel come from nowhere else. Deporting natives under
occupation is illegal, deporting foreigner is (even thought in the case of
Kuwait it was very shameful for the Kuwaitis to dump them in Jordan).

It is all a question of international law. Israel's action are illegal under
the Geneva Convention, Kuwait's are digusting but nevertheless legal.

Now contrast the US/UN reaction to Israel's action. Despite declaring them
illegal and demanding the deportees return it has taken no action. In the case
of Libya which has done nothing illegal, it has the right not to extradite its
citizens in the absence of a treat, sanctions where imposed on it.
Talk about political hypocrisy and double standards.

Zeyd

>		-- Phoenix -- Damien R. Sullivan  [X-) Kiljoy]
>6x9=42 | AIXELSYD | 1374245896=4 | Libertarian Dictatorship
>Honk if you're American and have heard of Steeleye Span... 
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: Center for Policy Research <cpr@igc.apc.org>
Subject: Re: US attack on IRAQ - illegal
Originator: tpm@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <Center for Policy Research <cpr@igc.apc.org>>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:42:13 GMT

The question of issuing a warrant for the arrest of a war criminal
is not dependent upon the ability to bring him to trial. If a murder
is committed, the police is entitled and expected to issue a warrant
for the arrest of the alleged offender, even if he is not found.

The Geneva Conventions explicitely precribe procedures to be
followed by any High COntracting Party in the even of what the
Conventions term 'grave breaches'. According to the Conventions and
their additional Protocols of 1977, it is the duty of High 
Contracting Parties to search for and prosecute individuals such as
Saddam Hussein, Y. Rabin, Pol Pot, George Bush and others, who are
clearly on record as committing or ordering the commission of
'grave breaches'. Those States who fail to undertake these legal
steps, violate Article 1 of the Geneva Conventions. 

The question here is not whether Saddam is a bigger criminal than Bush,
Rabin or Pol Pot. This may be debated. But the question is that all these
individiuals are clearly in violation of the most basic international
humanitarian law, and should be prosecuted in accordance with such
law. Anybody opposing legal measures, including a fiar trial and due
processs for such criminals, is either helping the commission of such
crimes or calling for extra-judicial retribution. Neither alternative
is compatible with the rule of law and with world peace.

Elias Davidsson
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: haidar@ces.cwru.edu (H. Harmanani)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Are Lebanese considered ARABS (J. LAWEN a PALESTINIAN)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 17:54:02 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science/CWRU
NNTP-Posting-Host: mama.ces.cwru.edu

In article <1993Jan24.135356.20309@nighthawk.clearpoint.com> martillo@nero.clearpoint.com (Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami) writes:

>Sandra, you are at a university.  You really should try to acquire
>some understanding and comprehension before babbling.  Right now you
>represent a pretty good argument for bait al ta`a.

I assume you are also at a University Mr. Ajami and that "bait al ta'a"
is most inappropriate addressing ladies.

>Yes, when something goes wrong let's just go blame the Israeli
>bogeyman.  Maybe you have not realized it yet, but Arab people
>slaughter each other with no external provocation whatsoever.

And since arabs slaughter each other anyways, why don't the Israelis
kill some more.

>Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami
-- 
H. Harmanani (haidar@alpha.ces.cwru.edu)
Dept. of Computer Engineering
Crawford Hall 215C
Case Western Reserve U
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: zionism in crisis
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: talk
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:52:31 GMT

"wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com#  writes:
 
# I've been in many discussions with Buddhists, Hindus, and Sikhs
# lately about the nature of their religions and beliefs. When I've
# frankly challenged their ideas in free and open inquiry, they
# NEVER lost their cool. They saw each challenge as an opportunity
# to make a friendly and effective presentation of their beliefs.

Unfortunately, your abusive, repulsive, obnoxious, half-baked
and hateful posters have drawn some emotional comments. That
is pretty understandable.

You have used, and continue to use, classical smearing techniques
used by antisemites, and you are "surprised" when people get
angry at you.

Anybody who writes:

"Again, it can't be emphasized too strongly that the notion that
Jews are a race is not a malicious Nazi invention but a strident
article of faith among many Jewish leaders..."

Has to be either a nut or to hate Jews and Judaism to an extreme
extent. I cannot visualize any other motivation for writing something
so horrible.

You continue to ignore everything that people write in response
to you. Your posters seem more and more like the "Argic" posters,
i.e. an infinite repetition of the same paragraphs, with some
random re-ordering; add plenty of stupid and abusive remarks, and
the repeating ad nauseum of the threat that Israel is going to
be destroyed. Really, enough with this rubbish. Go home, little boy.

-Danny Keren.


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26308 talk.politics.soviet:10747 soc.culture.greek:12570 soc.culture.europe:11436 soc.history:10991 soc.culture.turkish:15053
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: US Cruise missile's accuracy
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:09:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.163753.23082@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}In article <1993Jan20.215729.24602@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> aref@Tehran.Stanford.EDU (Modda'iyeh har hAzer va Vakileh har ghAyeb) writes:
}}In article <1993Jan20.202358.17482@linus.mitre.org> 
}}m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}}
}}>"targetted"?  Is this a deliberate lie, or have you just forgotten the minor
}}>detail that it wasn't going there until the locals RETARGETTED (i.e. shot it)
}}>it from its *GUILTY* target to those *INNOCENT* civilians?
}}
}}OK, so let's change the "targetted" to "hit". 
}Better.
}
}}How do you know that the locals 
}}retargetted (or shot) it such that the missile would change course?
}
}The usual results from "shooting down" something (as Saddam claims occurred) is that
}it is no longer flying i.e. its course is different i.e. changes from horizontal
}to "down".  Are you claiming that BOTH the US reps and the Iraqi reps are lying?

It is a week later.  Are you going to answer?

Reality is a b!tch, isn't it?


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe)
Subject: Louis on Non-Jews
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:42:46 GMT

In article <74284@cup.portal.com> L-Bueno@cup.portal.com (Louis Alberto Bueno) writes:

>Your sweeping personal judgements on the non-Jewish intelligence, is, at best, remarkable. :-)

Please point out where I ever argued with you saying that you were misinformed, or couldn't
understand, or whatever, based on the fact that you were non-Jewish.  I have no idea what
your background is.

This is a favorite tactic of Wayne McGuire's, and I see that you have studied with the master.

-- Chris Metcalfe


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: an3205@anon.penet.fi (ROI)
Subject: Looking Glass Monsters
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: talk.politics.mideast
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 04:46:28 GMT

if
the jewish people can see
their own struggle for homeland
in the palestinian problem
and
equate zionist violence against british rule
with plo terrorism against israel (and america)
then
they can begin to understand
that although humanity is capable
of both noble and vile behavior
...
we share the same basic needs
(food, shelter, companionship, television :-)
and we must learn to accept responsibility
for the effects of our actions
upon our neighbors.

the palestinians can assist this transition

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Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Misc
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:10:51 GMT

From today's Israel Line
------------------------

Israel Air Industry To Sell Drones to U.S Army
 
Today's MA'ARIV reports that the Pentagon has authorized the U.S
Army to purchase small remote-piloted drones from Israel. In its
first phase, the purchase of seven drone systems has been
authorized. The entire deal is valued at 250 Million Dollars. Last
June, Israel Air Industry won a competition in which 6 of the
world's most prominent aeronautics companies participated. Winning
the bid has made Israel Air Industry one of the world's leading
manufacturers of drones.
 
 
Standard & Poors Raises Israel's Financial Ranking
 
Yesterday's HA'ARETZ reports that the ratings firm of Standard and
Poors yesterday raised Israel's financial ranking. According to the
newspaper, the change in status was made in light of the improved
geo-political situation in the region, the progress achieved in the
implementation of economic reforms and the increasingly strong
condition of Israel in international financial markets, after
having received American loan guarantees. According to the firm's
revised ratings, the Israeli market's ability to repay long-term
debts has improved from B- to B, while its ability to repay short-
term debts has risen from A-3 to A-2. Standard and Poors noted that
despite the necessarily increased burden of Israeli external debt
required by the immigrant absorption process, the dramatic decrease
in the debt burden since the mid-1980s gives the government a great
deal of maneuvering room. In response to the Standard and Poors
statement, Finance Minister Avraham Shochat said yesterday: "This
is an important vote of confidence by the international business
community for the Israeli economy and in our economic policy. This
is another positive sign for businessmen and investors who have
shown increasing interest recently in investing in Israel."
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Just checking out "Gav*0"s broken nose...
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 19:22:53 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <scg.728127153@cs.wisc.edu> Nick Gavrielatos <gavriel@socrates.umd.edu> writes:

>Ti 0a ginei telika me auto to rimadi to filter? 0a doulepsei
>pote? Exoun parei fora orismena paparia kai grafoune ena
>swro enantion mas, kai den mporw na steilw mail sto scg.

It is a little uncomfortable for me, telling you about your broken
nose and your grandfathers.

  <<When the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed II FATIH (The Conquerer) captured
  Constantinople and brought the Byzantine Empire to its inglorious end
  in 1453, his armies broke into the city through one of the Jewish
  quarters and with the assistance of the local Jewish population who,
  as at Bursa and Edirne, were overjoyed at the opportunity to throw off
  their Greek oppressors. So also at Buda and Pest in 1526, on the island
  of Rhodes in 1522, at Belgrade (1526), in Azerbaijan (1534), Iraq and
  Iran (1534-35, 1638), Yemen (1628) and elsewhere, Jews welcomed the
  conquering forces of Suleyman the Magnificent,...>>

  << Mehmed II's conquest of Costantinople was not followed by killing
     and destruction, as Greek nationalists have claimed to the present
     day in efforts to depict Turks as barbarians, but rather by an effort
     to rebuild and repopulate the city so that it could become the center
     of the great multinational empire he was trying to create, extending
     far beyond the Roman Empire and incorporating all the people of the
     world as he knew it under the dominion of his Turkish dynasty.>>

  <<Even more than the Jews living in the expanding Ottoman Empire itself,
    Mehmed from the start attempted to encourage the emigration of Jews
    from Europe. Just as the Jews of England, France, Germany, Spain, and
    even Poland and Lithuania were being subjected to increasing persecution,
    blood libels, massacres, and deportations, the Turkish rulers of the
    expanding Ottoman state actively encouraged them to come and live in the
    Ottoman Empire under the same conditions of tolerance and freedom which
    had favored the lives of Jews in the empires of the Umayyads of Damascus
    and Abbasids of Baghdad, and more recently in Muslim Spain.>>

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                  (Ohanus Appressian - 1919)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920)


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: an3205@anon.penet.fi (ROI)
Subject: We Are Experiencing Minor Technical Difficulties
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: talk.politics.mideast
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:10:32 GMT

    if
    the jewish people can see
    their own struggle for homeland
    in the palestinian problem
    and
    equate zionist violence against british rule
    with plo terrorism against israel (and america)
    then
    they can begin to understand
    that although humanity is capable
    of both noble and vile behavior
    ...
    we share the same basic needs
    (food, shelter, companionship, television :-)
    and we must learn to accept responsibility
    for the effects of our actions
    upon our neighbors.
    
    the palestinians can assist this transition
    
    ---convincing the israelis that,
    	like zionist violence,
    		palestinian violence is a means and not an end---
    
    by refraining from violence periodically to demonstrate:
    
    (1)	palestinians can control and coordinate on a national scale,
    (2)	their goals are well defined, practical, and ultimately peaceful,
    (3)	a means to achieve and a plan to utilize those means exists...
    (*)	it has already been shown that their will is unbreakable.
    
			     *whew*

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Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: odkahn@eos.ncsu.edu (OPHER DANIEL KAHN)
Subject: Re: Be careful... The dirty plan...
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:43:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.042952.14705@trl.oz.au>, faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:
|> In article <C1FKEG.601@imag.fr>, oueichek@imag.fr (Ibaa Oueichek) writes:

|> As far as I know, this concept of Israel extending to the Nile and Eupharates
|> is something that the Religious figures who are members of the Likude party
|> have called for. I beleive it has become part of the Likude party platform.

And were did you get that copy of the Likud platform?  I know more that a few
people in Israel, and I have not heard of one person that wants every thing
from the Nile to the Eupharates (sp?).  Even the advocates of the Greater
Israel only include some parts of Jordan in their claims, and they are a small
minority.  Those that want to annex all the territory currently under Israely
control are more numerous. 
|> 
|> A.Faris

-- 
 Opher D. Kahn