HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Terry Brooks (was Re: Piers Anthony)
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:45:45 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: adder.cs.berkeley.edu


Shit.  Just when I thought the conversation would never come
round to this particular topic again.  If anyone's got a copy
of that Anthony-Brooks comparison I posted a few months back
(fat chance), please send it to me.

I don't want to have to type the damn thing in again.

c
From: tong@ifu.ethz.ch (Tong Longchang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF-LOVERS Digest   V17 #447
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:38:59 GMT

SIGOFF
From: dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: McCaffrey
Date: 16 Sep 1992 03:00:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, robertm@alumni.cs.colorado.edu (MONTGOMERY ROBERT PH) says:

>I'm curious about McCaffrey's works.  I read the first
>two Pern books a long ago and was quite bored.  What I
>remember is:
>
>What kind of a reputation does she have on the 'net or
>elsewhere?  Does her style vary much?  The Dinosaur Planet books
>look like they might be fun, but if they're like the first Pern
>books then they're probably not for me.

Well..._I_ like the Dragonriders books. Your milage may vary. I'd say that
if you didn't like them the first time through, you won't like 'em the
second time.

If you didn't like Dragonriders, don't bother with the Dinosaur Planet
ones. They are, IMHO, inferior to the Dragonrider series.

Flames will be cheerfully ignored.
-- 
+-------------+------------------+---------------------------------+
| Damien Neil | dpn2@po.cwru.edu | Case Western Reserve University |
+-------------+------------------+---------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: charles@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Charles Jacob Cohen)
Subject: Re: Piers Anthony
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:50:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.164058.7333@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> aaron@space.ualberta.ca writes:
>Anyway--why don't you anti-Anthony people just put the appropriate line into
>your rec.arts.sf.written killfiles, if you can't stand watching discussion of
>his work?  And post your snide remarks to junk or alt.flame or alt.dev.null or
>somewhere?  Please?

I agree, snide remarks don't belong.  But Aaron, you have to understand that
if P. Anthony get's mentioned people are going to talk about him and say how
much they dislike his work.  Why?

I can only answer for my self, and for me it is because of disappointment.
I loved many of his books, but whenever he starts a series, it just gets
worse and worse and worse (IMHO).

The incarnations of immoratility is a perfect example. On a Pale Horse was
great.  Great concept, interesting characters, and a resolution that I couldn't
predict.  By the fourth book he had completely forgotten some plot lines
and contradicted others (and I'm not talking about time paradoxes either).
It was as if...as if he had too many other stories on his mind and got 
confused.

I recall in one of his afterwards stating that he couldn't understand how 
other writters got writter's block.  He said that when that happened to him,
he would just incorporate it into the story.  I couldn't believe it.  That
just makes for dull stories!  He also writes several stories at once,
as in while typeing one line he will [insert a sentence for another story
inside brackets like this] then continue with his original plot.  How
can someone not get confused?

So the main problem is disappointment.  I liked a lot of his work, and 
we know he is capable of really very good science fiction and fantasy.
But if he keeps on churning out poor quality work, can you blame the
rest of us for not reading any of his new stuff and putting him down?

- Chuck


-- 
"I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect, had intended for us to forgo their use." - Galileo
"I'm an engineer, not a dictionary!" - Me
From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Originator: nickh@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1992Sep6.122602.11882@techbook.com> <1992Sep7.120355.29113@cs.ruu.nl>
	<1992Sep9.124622.17022@techbook.com> <1992Sep10.134212.19357@cs.ruu.nl>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:27:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.134212.19357@cs.ruu.nl> rkunenbo@cs.ruu.nl (Ronald Kunenborg) writes:

[lots of stuff about Burt, Lysenko, Eysenck, etc. etc.]

   The political conclusions drawn from this varied between denying
   access to Jews to the USA in the 30's, to forced sterilization of
   `social deviants' (i.e. the poor).  Even now, in Great-Brittain,
   Burts research is being used as an excuse to exclude 11-year olds
   from any further education.

News to me, squire. All Britons get education to the age of 16. What
on Earth are you talking about?

[... much more deleted ...]

Nick
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: HUGO Awards?
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:27:27 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Sep14.025551.17446@latcs1.lat.oz.au>  
agapow@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Paul Michael Agapow) writes:
> dstein@rhea.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:
> >Paul Michael Agapow writes:
> >
> >|> Glad to see i'm not the only one irritated by the Landis win.  
This is not
> >|> to say that Landis can't produce good work but, Oh Lord, "Walk  
in the Sun"
> >|> wasn't one of them. There must have been better contenders this  
year if
> >|> people insisted on "hard sf" - i could pick up Years Best and  
find at
> >|> least 3 in minutes.
> >
> >   "Gene Wars" by Paul McAuley, "Living Will" by A. Jablokov, 
> >   "Pogrom" by J.P. Kelly, "FOAM" by Brian W. Aldiss, and even
> >   "Blood Sisters" and "The Moat" by G. Egan or "Skinner's Room"
> >   by William Gibson.
> >
> >   Now not all are very `hard', and some may be short novellettes, 
> >   but all are straight sf and non is as flawed as "Walk in the  
Sun".
> 
> David has cogently illustrated my argument. BTW, for us in the  
antipodes, how
> _does_ a story (or whatever) get shortlisted for the Hugo?

The same way it can win: by vote of the membership of that year's
World SF Convention.  Members send in a ballot listing up to
five votes in each category. The top 5 vote getters (top 6 or 7
in the case of ties) get on the final ballot. 

> Generally, the more "traditional" sf elements, the better a story  
did.
> Rockets, computers, science etc. This causes me to wonder if the  
last 20
> years in SF has really changed things all that much.

Does this really surprise you much? There's a portion of SF fans
(including those on the net) who really think SF should be "put
back in the gutter where it belongs" and don't like any new or
literary trends in the genre.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk (Stewart T Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Arthur Clarke quote (help!)
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:45:19 GMT
Reply-To: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk
Organization: Dept. Of Computing and Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh


In article <2418@unet.UUCP>, stan@shakespeare.uucp (Stan Heller) writes:

>I am trying to track down a quote attributed to
>Arthur C. Clarke-
>	" The past is prologue..."
>			=stan

Hmmmmm.....I'm slightly suspicious about this message, probably without cause.
But, when I replied by e-mail, I get a bounce from shakespeare.uucp.
Probably my fault, but when you consider the source of the quote,
then enquiring minds start to worry about the ongoing phenomenon of
"Coincidence and the Net".

The quote is from _The Tempest_, Act II, Scene I

ANTONIO She that is queen of Tunis; she that dwells
        Ten leagues beyond man's life; she that from Naples
        Can have no note, unless the sun were post--
        The man i' the moon's too slow--till new-born chins
        Be rough and razorable; she that--from whom?
        We all were sea-swallow'd, though some cast again,
        And by that destiny to perform an act
        Whereof what's past is prologue, what to come
        In yours and my discharge.

There is a complete, on-line collection of the works of Shakespeare,
available by anonymous FTP, but I forget which site.  I can look out
the site reference if it is needed.

Old Arthur has quite a predeliction for The Bard.  NOw, does he have an
e-mail address ?  (ACC, not William)

STF
--
sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk                        ...uknet!cs.hw.ac.uk!sfleming
"Eat what you catch or put it back.  And don't go wasting
   a lot of words when a simple 'yup' will do"  -mid-west fishing ethic
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jason@jazz.cnd.hp.com (Jason Zions)
Subject: Re: Shock wave rider
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 01:20:26 GMT
	<1992Sep14.204559.6652@rosevax.rosemount.com>
	<1992Sep15.115913.17578@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
	<1992Sep15.154242.7996@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Organization: HP-Network and Systems Management Division
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written

In article <1992Sep15.154242.7996@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> S_TITZ@iravcl.ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz) writes:

   Just to take another example of something *not* yet being invented: 

   That dance where the dancers generate the music themselves (supposedly
   via a computer controlling the noise equipment). As far as I know, no
   such thing exists by mid-1992. But surely we all can imagine that
   someone in the near future is able to build such a device.

Bzzt. Check into what's happening at the MIT Media Lab. It's not commercial,
but it exists. Transducers attached to skintight costumes; dance in the
space between the receivers. Shoot, they've built something that looks like
a conductor's baton that is actually a three-space MIDI controller; move it
in space and it controls a synth.

Jazz

This is not an official statement of The Hewlett-Packard Company. No war-
ranty is expressed or implied. The information included herein is not to be
construed as a committment on HP's part. Save a tree - disband an ISO working
group today.

Jason Zions			The Hewlett-Packard Company
Colorado Networks Division	3404 E. Harmony Road
Mail Stop 102			Ft. Collins, CO  80525  USA
jason@cnd.hp.com		(303) 229-3800
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: kaa@heawk1.gsfc.nasa.gov (Keith Arnaud)
Subject: Re: Dreamer Fithp
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 09:30:01 GMT

To answer the question that started this thread : I remember seeing ~1 year
ago a note in the Economist that the DoD had run a meeting to try and predict
weapon design and that a number of SF authors had attended. The article used
Footfall as a hook but did not name any names.

                                Keith

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: clc@kepler.unh.edu (Christian L Claiborn)
Subject: Re: SNOW CRASH by Neal Stephenson
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 18:39:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.155743.18480@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat) writes:
>clc@kepler.unh.edu (Christian L Claiborn) writes:
>>
>>The only 'cyberpunk' writer with a grain of originality in him, at least in my
>>experience, is Bruce Sterling.
>
>Him and, a little less of it, Pat Cadigan.

Oh dear.  Is Cadigan stuck with the cyberpunk label too?  I've always enjoyed
Pat's work, never really grouped it with that of <ick> Gibson's.

>
>Sometimes Greg Bear is accounted cyberpunk (tho' why I can't figure out
>for the life of me), and he certainly has a grain of originality.
Say it ain't so!  Who's doing the grouping here?  I might have to have a little
'talk' with the people stuffing _my_ favorite writers into categories.  I mean,
it's all right for ME to do it, but when other people step on my turf, I get
antsy.  Next they're gonna call Ellison cyber-chump.  Or Card.  Or... or...
Larry Niven!
>
>	Larry "Maybe even a caret" Hammer
>--
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Christian Longshore Claiborn | clc@kepler.unh.edu | Friend of the Great     |
| Chuck Woolery's Protege      | clc@gloin.unh.edu  | Eater of Souls          |
| Future UNH Sysadmin          | clc@bifur.unh.edu  | Ask about group rates!  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"It was all very well to say 'Drink Me,' but the wise little Alice wasn't    |
| going to do THAT in a hurry."  -- The Reverend Charles Dodgson              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters)
Subject: Re: ROLE OF INFORMATION IN SF
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 00:58:35 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In <01GOQWQAN7O28WW1H1@Citadel.edu> LUNDYM@CITADEL.EDU writes:

>I hope that this isn't too obscure an interest but I am
>looking for science fiction books that feature information,
>uses of information, who owns information,, etc. as a theme.
>The work knowldege might be more appropriate than information.

There's some of that in Jane Fancher's novels _Groundties_ and _Uplink_,
where the plot largely revolves around a far-future version of the Net. 
There's a fair amount of discussion about ownership of information in
these books.  The former is a first novel, and the latter is a second,
but they're quite good, given that.
-- 
Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: berry@athos.pei.com (Berry Kercheval)
Subject: Re: Asimov Book list
Reply-To: berry@pei.com
Organization: Protocol Engines, Inc., Mt. View, California
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 00:14:20 GMT

>>>>> On 8 Sep 92 12:50:27 GMT, trevorl@spider.co.uk (Trevor Lyall) said:
Trevor> Does anybody out there have a book list for Asimov???
Trevor> In particular I'm after his fiction books.


Um.  Wouldn't it be easier to post a list of all books NOT written by
the Good Doctor?

(F&SF 'Fake Ad' Contest winner:  "For sale, complete works of Asimov
on microfiche; must sell, moving to smaller house")

--
Berry Kercheval :: berry@pei.com :: Protocol Engines, Inc.  Mt. View, CA
"Car pool fatigue: it's like shell shock, but you don't get any VA benefits.
They just fill your gas tank and send you back to the front."
From: julie@MICA.GEOLOGY.UTORONTO.CA (Julie King)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: S.R. Donaldson
Date: 15 Sep 92 11:57:29 GMT

I purchased Donaldson's new book with much joy, anticipating the wonderful

more wonderful writing in the style of the Covanent series.  I thought
it was *horrible* and was extremely dissapointed!  Violence, horror, more
violence, and sex.  I really don't see this as a villian turned victum but
rather a study of deranged human lust and abuse.  Any comments?

JK
From: coolidge@speaker.wpd.sgi.com (Don Coolidge)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: HUGO Awards?
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:48:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Sep14.230425.6404@physics.ucla.edu>, hsr@physics.ucla.edu (Harisankar Ramishan) writes:
|> 
|> I like Bujold's novels. Very enjoyable to read. However, I wouldn't say
|> any of them deserve the praise that her fans heap on her writing. 
|> 
|> I suppose that I have a double standard here. I classify SF books as 
|> 'fluff' or as 'challenging'. And to me, a book should not win a serious
|> award unless it is in the latter category. Fluff sells. And _I_ buy fluff
|> by the gross. But I don't want Terry Pratchett getting hugos for his
|> books. I am sure that it is very hard to write fluff as well as Bujold
|> does, and even that her writing feels smoother than Gordon Dickson. But
|> all the same, I would feel happier seeing a mediocre book by Dickson 
|> getting the award rather than Bujold's best book.
|> 
|> I don't know if this made sense :^> I just like to feel that if I picked
|> up a Hugo or Nebula winner (of any year), I might not _enjoy_ the read,
|> but I will surely _think_ about what I read. Bujold doesn't qualify, in
|> my opinion. Caroline Cherryh _does_, again IMO. And for me the difference
|> between the two is basically that Cherryh uses SF as a vehicle to explore
|> ideas, while Bujold just tells a (very) good tale.
|> 
|> hari
|> hsr@uclaph.physics.ucla.edu
|> 
|> ps: I personally think that 'Ethan of Athos' is by far her best book.

Chacun a son gout, I guess. I would add a third class, 'junk'. To
some degree it overlaps the other two, but holds a huge body of work
as its own alone (Elron, for instance :^).

My own reaction to Cherryh (based on an extensive, but not exhaustive, 
survey of her work) is that she gets so confused by what she's trying to 
keep somewhat obscure from the reader that her stories' foci all melt and
vanish. I'm left with the feeling that she could have done it right with 
just a little more thought...and as for Bujold, the reason I like her works
is because they have considerably more to say than just telling a rousing 
good tale. Undoubtedly part of that comes from having a son with a dwarfing
condition myself, but it's not only Miles who I enjoy. Her characters change
and grow; they discover joy and ugliness in both the world and themselves; 
none is one-dimensional (not even Vordarian or Count Piotr). My only complaint
with Bujold is that her science is far too primitive, and all her cultures are 
merely ancient or current ones translated in time. Still, if those two 
caveats are needed to form a familiar canvas upon which she can paint 
her portraits, I'll happily put up with them :^)

Don Coolidge
coolidge@speaker.wpd.sgi.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: clc@kepler.unh.edu (Christian L Claiborn)
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 15:52:02 GMT

In article <15299@suns6.crosfield.co.uk> jc@crosfield.co.uk (jerry cullingford) writes:
>In article <BtyCK2.JtD@newcastle.ac.uk> A.J.Gunn@newcastle.ac.uk (A. Gunn) writes:
>>1. the opthalomologist's  view: bright kids read too much & screw up their
>>vision.
>
>Hmm.. how about
>
>(4) Short sighted kids don't do as well in games, since they don't have as
>clear a view of what's going on, and so are more likely to concentrate on
>shorter-range activities (like reading), and therefore do better academically?
>
Naah.  I was never any good at sports even when I had perfect vision.  So I
read a whole lot.  Now I have glasses and a 3.67.

				CC
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Christian Longshore Claiborn | clc@kepler.unh.edu | Friend of the Great     |
| Chuck Woolery's Protege      | clc@gloin.unh.edu  | Eater of Souls          |
| Future UNH Sysadmin          | clc@bifur.unh.edu  | Ask about group rates!  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"It was all very well to say 'Drink Me,' but the wise little Alice wasn't    |
| going to do THAT in a hurry."  -- The Reverend Charles Dodgson              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dstein@flora.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: HUGO Awards?
Reply-To: dstein@flora.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Organization: UCLA, Mathematics Department
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 01:24:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.092832.15488@husc3.harvard.edu>,
gouvea@zariski.harvard.edu (Fernando Gouvea) writes:
|> >|> JWC award - Ted Chang (?)
|> >
|> >   Oh no.  I read 3 stories by him so far, and they ranged from
|> >   fair to ridiculous.  His "Tower of Babylon"(?) was a competently
|> >   written yarn of null substance, his "Division by Zero" went
|> >   nowhere (a mathematician proves arithmetic inconsistent and
|> >   goes into a depression), and "Understand" topped it all by 
|> >   inducing me into bursts of uncontrollable laughter with some
|> >   of the worst passages I have yet seen in Science Fiction.
|> >   Chang seems to think he comprehends abstract math concepts,
|> >   but "Understand" abounds with hilarious examples of utter
|> >   nonsense wherever a math term appears.  Each story is based
|> >   on a sophomoric premise, and none transcends it.
|> 
|> Could you give me a reference to "Understand"? I always like to track down
|> mathematical SF stories...

   It's not about math, it's a first-person account by a guy whose 
   intelligence goes way up, and so he of course utters such memorable
   phrases as 

   "... condemning it [an artificial language he's developing for himself] 
   to the status of a Holy Grail at the end of a divergent infinite regress." 

   *At the end of a divergent infinite regress*?  Someone please explain.  

   Or consider this little ditty on thinking:

     I understand the infinite regress of this self-knowing, not by 
     proceeding step by step endlessly, but by apprehending the _limit_.
     The nature of recursive congnition is clear to me.  A new meaning
     of the term "self-aware."

   Looks like a high-school student just discovered Calculus.  Well,
   maybe Chang _is_ a teenager and we shall see something worthwhile
   come from him in the future. 
 
|> I agree totally, by the way, on "Division by Zero". It even seems to me
|> that any real logician would be utterly delighted to prove that arithmetic
|> was inconsistent...

   Yup...

 - David

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
From: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Teela Brown (was Re: _Oracle_, by Mike Resnick (spoilers!))
Date: 13 Sep 92 03:44:48 GMT
Reply-To: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Organization: University of Arizona

In article <16860F99.REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu>, REBECCA@YaleVM (Rebecca Drayer) writes:
[...]
>In what book/series did Teela Brown appear?  I'm not familiar with the name.

Larry Niven's _Ringworld_ & _Ringworld Engineers_

-- 
You're traveling through another dimension -- a dimension not only of sight and
sound but of mind. A journey into a wonderous land whose boundaries are that of
imagination.  That's a signpost up ahead: your next stop: the Twilight Zone!
From: TJS107@psuvm.psu.edu (Sime)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Dave Drake's "Square Deal"
Date: 12 Sep 92 00:46:42 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

This is a book based on the board/rp game "Car Wars".  I think it will be
a trilogy eventually.
But my point is, does anyone know when it's coming out???
I heard late August, but I haven't seen it yet.
Tanks.

Sime....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jswartz@mbunix.mitre.org (Swartz)
Subject: Lovecraft question -- "The King in Yellow"
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:22:27 GMT

Could someone mail me a quick synopsis of "The King in Yellow" ??

I am interested to know if there is a connection to the song,
"Extraterrestrial Intelligence" by Blue Oyster Cult.  Some of the
lyrics are as follows . . .

I'm in fairy rings and tower beds.
"Don't report this" three men said.
Books by blameless and by the dead.
The king in yellow, the queen in red.

All praise, he's found the awful truth, Balthazar,
he's found the saucer news.



Any E-Mail help would be most appreciated.

JOHN


-- 
JOHN A. SWARTZ - The MITRE Corp. Bedford, MA * John_Swartz@iegate.mitre.org
"One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
 One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them."  J.R.R. Tolkien
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written