HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Ann.Feeney@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Ann Feeney)
Subject: Rape, women, carrying weapons
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:12:09 GMT

One good gentle posted advice on how to avoid rape at Pennsic, in which
he (I believe) advised women (or _anyone_ who can get assaulted) not
to count on "bodice knives," "chastity guards," "A real sharp no," or to
put them in common parlance, knives, razors, etc., as self-defence tools.
He could not have been more right!
Not only that they can lead to fatalities, but if your attacker
is bigger, srtonger, luckier, whatever, your little knife can
quickly be used _against_ you, either as extra co-ercion, or
as a weapon.

So in other words, they can't help, and they're very likely to get 
not only the attacker (for whom I have little sympathy--if it's
a question of his/her safety, I'd say carry all the knives you
want), but the weapon is more likely to hurt you.

Enid Wigglesworth
Ann Feeney

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Moderation (was pentagrams)
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:31:03 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <archer.153@utkux1.utk.edu> archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.151311.25198@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>
>>Please permit me a gentle correction, m'lord . . .
>
>>Don't worry about such lotus-eaters as there are in Caid.  While great
>>epics (and many not-so-great epics) come from there, the ones not far
>>from the Great Western Ocean to be concerned about are those located
>>in the Shire of Cloondara and their influence upon certain bodies of
>>lawgivers in the Province of Golden Rivers.  Both of these locals are
>>within the West. . .
>
>I cry 'pardon,' milord.  I indulged myself in a little hyperbole and wound 
>up over-generalizing again.

Understood from the first.  If my tongue gets any further into my
cheek it will come wiggling out my ear . . .

on a more serious note, the groups I cited are, respectively, San
Francisco and Sacramento.  The later being the site of our state
capitol.  Given some of the legislation that has emerged from those
two places, I sometimes wonder who is trying to kid who . . .

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: a paper Rialto?
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 12:19:23

    Pavel wrote:

 "A> A friend told me there is a paper version of the Rialto out of the
 "A> Outlands. Have any of you heard about this?

 Indeed, many of us subscribe to it. It is called "Thinkwell" and is
 avaliable from Mistress Aelflaed of Duckford. Unfortunately my wife has
 run off with my collection and I am unable to give you the address at
 present, but no doubt someone else will be able to.

    Tadhg, Hanaper


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period vs. Filk (was Basic Courtesy)
Date: 30 Jul 1992 22:17:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <Bs812B.DB0@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>Wait a minute!  I was at a postrevel in the West...this year, in fact.  Here
                                              last year--but who's counting?
>it is in my date-book.  4 April, 1991.  At a field-house at the University of
>California.  With a big swimming pool that smelled of dung.
>
>Well, actually, I didn't see any beer.  Maybe it wasn't a post-revel.
>
No, it wasn't a post-revel.  It was a revel, that is, an official event,
or rather part of one.  It would have been at the Haas Clubhouse in
Strawberry Canyon, probably after a session of the Collegium Occidentalis.
It was in a public place, everybody was in garb, and the evening's
events consisted of a potluck feast (BYO and share, and if you BYO beer
you're expected to minimize its visibility, since it's a college
campus) in the hall at one end and lots of dancing at the other
(Brocc of Alderden was probably teaching--little bitty man in a huge
green kilt)--am I right?  Darn!  I was undoubtedly there.  Too bad we
didn't meet.  (I was the huge middle-aged lady with brown hair, probably
wearing pale blue and a long white veil.)

(We _used_ to have private revels in people's homes--back in the Year
Two or so, when there were only a few dozen of us and everybody in the
West Kingdom would fit in one living room.)

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: No Landedness
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1992 16:39:03

 SB> It was pointed out to him
 SB> that there is already a Duke of Suffolk (Duke of Norfolk, and Earl of
 SB> Arundell, too) in Engalnd -- his last name is Howard, and he is the Earl
 SB> Marshal of England.

 Actually, the guy you are probably thinking of is the Earl of Suffolk and
 Berkshire, and although he is certainly a Howard he is not the Duke of
 Norfolk (who is Earl of *Sussex*). The first Earl of Suffolk (Thomas) was
 next brother to Philip, Earl of Arundel, filius primogenitus to the
 attainted 4th Duke of Norfolk; it wasn't until Philip's great-grandson
 Thomas (5th Duke) that the attainder was reversed. (The most recent *Duke*
 of Suffolk was the ill-fated father of Jane Grey....)

 SB> We perhaps should avoid infelicities like "Duke of Suffolk" or "Duke of
 SB> Medona-Sidonia",...

 "*Medina*-Sidonia". (I know ... I'm a snot....)

    Tadhg, Hanaper

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Violence, and the use thereof in self defense.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:45:06

 G> Hmmm... maybe a better way to put this is that a small person with
 G> limited training is going to have to do things, if they are going
 G> to stop a real assault, that are going to run a large chance of 
 G> killing the assaultor.  I'd much rather people thought about this
    While I've never been in a situation to actually *do* anything much, 
 I've always felt that I probably couldn't hurt a rapist enough to make 
 him quit -- it'd better be kill him or nothing (so far as self-defense 
 goes...ignoring the "run away!" response).
    Totally off the line of your message, milord Graydon, it occurred to 
 me that double-edged weapons are usually illegal.  While "we" can 
 normally get around this because to us they are costume accessories, 
 I'm pretty sure that this would be a major consideration if someone was 
 actually killed with one.  Oddly enough, my normal knife is a filleting 
 knife -- it'd do the job just as well.  Although, since I wouldn't be 
 fishing or hunting, and it's over 4" (Texas legal pocketknife length), 
 I'd probably be in trouble if I killed anyone with it.  Unless, of 
 course, they attacked me while I was cooking dinner..:^)
     Gwenllian CfM

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: boris@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (boris)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Armour Paterns
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 02:00:49 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB

Damn can't spell again. 
 Hi, anyone out there know where I can get ahold of Patterns for a set of 
full plate?  Anything from Maximillion on down.

;--- (boris) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: boris@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: twinkie names
Followup-To: twinkie names
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:44:20 GMT

My Lords and Ladies I bid you greeting.

Lady Angharad has made a good point with respect to letting go this topic
for the nonce. No doubt someone will start it up again, and if anyone has
captured the entire discussion, that person may want to send the file to
the inquirer in order to forestall a repeat performance.

While it is good to choose a name that is period or at least period sounding,
the kind of authenticity chauvanism that is sometimes rampant (now there's
an idea for a device, a chauvanist rampant, probably gules) is really uncalled
for in this Society. A friend of mine in the Markland Militia once described
the difference between Markland and the SCA as "Markland plays dress up, and
the SCA plays make believe." 

Let's take a look at the morphology of language. Everyone who saw the PBS
special The Story of English, raise your cursors. Very good. Now we all
understand that language undergoes changes on a day to day basis. The same
is very true of names. When I submitted my own name, I will admit to having
borrowed from two of my favourite authors. My last name passed almost 
instantly, as the Herald found an immediate reference for MacAnndra, with that
spelling. My first name, however, gave them a bit of trouble. Originally it
was spelled Corum, and for those of you familiar with the works of Michael
Moorcock ((whose last name is a flower in the Isles, reference several Irish
folksongs), you know from whence it came. Alas, the Heralds could not find
any reference to the name being spelled with an `m', but only a Welsh
reference spelled with an `n'. Now common sense dictates that, and direct
experience proves, that people will say your name as they hear, correct
or not. To this day I have been called Corum, Corun, and Corwin. The last
doesn't even sound much like the other two, but you should hear what happens
to my mundane name sometimes (Craig becomes Fred).

The upshot of all this is, Newbies, please try to choose a properly medieval
name, and Oldies, give it a rest, and Everyone remember that we're here for
the FUN of it. I suppose as long as nobody starts wearing pointy ears, any
name should be acceptable whether it's Gandalf Greymatter or Albert One Stone.
The key word above is `acceptable'. We should all be more accepting of each
other, and it is the responsibility of the Oldies here to TEACH, and not
discriminate and alienate the Newbies. Lighten up, people! It's a game!

Lady Angharad, I thank you for your calm attitudes and kind words. BTW, do
I owe you an MOAS report for Wrattingham? See you at the War.

Corun "not even Cormac" MacAnndra


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: GEN0036@Husky1.StMarys.Ca (Loki)
Subject: This is going way too far
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:22:33 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.12.SMU

Lords and ladies of the Rialto,

Can everyone ***please*** calm down? People seem to be dropping off the
Rialto in droves... Until very recently, I considered the Rialto to be an
extremely useful net resource, full of information. Then, it flooded with
the Basic Courtesy thread, and became (mostly) somewhat of a chore.

This all originated with an overreaction to a rather vague post of
Stephen's, which was overreacted to, and so on, until now people seem to be
wanting to quit the Rialto, people who normally are quite friendly to other
Rialtans...

I hope for one day the Rialto to return to its previous form, full of
*information* and *informative people* and *friendly* and *joking* and ...
well, free of this personal verbal dueling that has dominated it of late.

I don't think anyone has said anything that should force us to cast them
out into exile... which is what some people seem to be doing, deliberately
or otherwise. I don't want to guess at what motives people have for what
they're doing... I simply beg them to stop.

 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |Most commonly known as Loki, occasionally sysop of TWWOL                  |
 |SCA: Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson, founder of the Compaignie Mercurie, in the|
 |Canton of Seashire, Barony of Ruantallan, Laurel Kingdom of the East      |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |    The unwise man thinks he will live for ever if he shuns fight, but    |
 |    Old age gives him no peace though spears may shun him. - The Havamal  |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |        The Net: gen0036@husky1.stmarys.ca, gen0036@stmarys.bitnet        |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: twinkie names
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:53:31 GMT

Good Gentles All,

To add my 2 pfennigs worth to this tired discussion, I would ask, are
names using the formula (given name) of the (surname, nickname,
locative, or occupational name) period at all?  Based on Arval's
refutation of Thadg's original posting all of the names he listed seemed
 to follow a (given name)+ (surname) pattern, with no "ofs" or "of thes"
between them.
	To my mind "John of the Great Spear" sounds OOP and cacophonous,
but "John Greatspear" sounds right. Ditto" Catherine of the Misty Vale"
vs." Catherine Mistyvale". The only period "locative prepositional
phrase" names I can remember off hand are "by the" as in "by-the-bridge"
  and "at" as in "at water" (hence the surname by the way). 
	It would seem that a great deal of Tadgh's distress and a great
deal of argument over period naming styles would disappear if were were
to just more carefully regulate the use of "of" and "of the" in name
construction.
	(BTW generally -but not always- period names followed a given
name + [surname, locative, occupational name, or nickname] pattern. IE
   John Peterson,Jack London, Thadhg Liath of Duncairn, Lothar von 
Katzenellenbogen, Katherine Weaver, Arval Benicouer (good heart) to name
  a few period, and sounds like period names.)

	Hoping this thread dies pretty soon, 

	Lothar von Katzenellenbogen   \|/
                                       0 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: SMTP@mitvma.mit.EDU
Subject: Undeliverable Mail
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:21:20 GMT


I have been asked to repost the Rattan info. Here goes..

For those who are interested in buying rattan from the far east, I
have a source that will supply a 10 foot staff (or so) for $2.00 a
foot plus shipping. The rattan comes in bundles of 30. Shipping costs
are $50.00 to $120.00 depending on where you live. East coast and Canada
can look forward to about $100.00 or so. Canada wants $25.00 to push it
accross the boarder. Nice folks, those Northern typs.

Now, here is how it works...

I set up an account here in Portland, Or as soon as I get enough people
interested and willing. This bank will be a international bank that will
generate a letter of credit for the bank in asia. Now, the bank there will
only release the mony when the people present a Bill of Ladding to the
bank there. See how this works? Thus, no money changes hands without proof
of performance. Now, if you are interested, send me mail and I will do my
best to get the ball rolling. As soon as I get a least 1000 poles ordered
then we can to this. We are almost there. My address in A3tc.psuorvm.bitnet

Lets get going!

Tim Chase Portland State University
Diamon Isamu  Three Mountains An Tir
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Date: 23 Jul 92 06:04:55 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: SCA

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings
and prayers for the blessings of Allah, most especially unto Bertram.

Master Bertram recently posted:

>Might I suggest that Stephen's missive may be useful in convincing 
>people that courtesy (of even the most basic sort) _does_ have a 
>place in the S.C.A. and the Rialto?
>
>It is one thing for arguments and debates to occur.  Those, I welcome.
>But "wave of the hand" dismissals in public rather than helpful critiques
>or thoughtful comments should not be the norm in this forum or the Society,
>in my (less than) humble opinion.

I have known Stephen for some time.  I highly value his blunt, unvarnished
honesty and willingness to express opinion.  I think that his remark was
not only not discourteous, but to the point and refreshing.  Just because
people do a thing, it does not automatically become an appropriate thing
to do.  Filking of modern tunes is an abomination and if Stephen wants to
lead a Crusade to extirpate it from our midst, I'll happily join him.  If
courtesy means avoiding speaking the blunt truth about a non-period
practice on the off chance that it might offend one of the gongfermers
who have to have their mundanity-fix, then I prefer discourtesy every time.

>Is there any consensus on this issue?  

I was unaware that matters of principle ought be decided statistically.

>Do we want to discourage outright discourtesy?

How?  An Holy Office of the Rialto, mayhaps?  I think this is a tempest in
a teacup.

>By the way, where do our _modern_ notions of courtesy come from?
>(Since I feel that the problem cited above is with breaking 
> modern notions of courtesy, not necessarily period models.)

I don't much care, except in a general historical way.  We live in an
extraordinarily mealy-mouthed modern world.  Any discouragement of plain,
direct, honest communication is to be deplored.  Especially when it
employs the practice of a man of Stephen of the Grove's honor, nobility of 
character, and integrity as an example of a practice to be avoided.

Best Wishes,

Hossein/Greg
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Subject: Re: Dance and Music
Reply-To: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:49:58 GMT


Ah, once again my poor wit is tickled by a passing missive upon the
Rialto.

In article <1992Jul23.114411.14090@husc3.harvard.edu>,
polito@husc8.harvard.edu (Jessica Polito) writes:

> A group of us were looking at the Burgundian dance manuals, and discovered
> that there would often be three or four "different" dances -- that is,
> different names and different music -- written up in the manual which had
> the exact same steps.

If I may be permitted an out-of-period reference, there is such a thing
as a "waltz", where I believe I've observed this pattern!

		:-)

				- - Steve
				    boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Guns 'n' Armour (was: Re
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 04:23:51 GMT

In <1992Jul23.201755.14902@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu
 (Carl J.M. Alexander) writes:

>In article <archer.123@utkux1.utk.edu> archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:

>>I'm afraid not.  It is easy to tell when firearms are loaded: always.
> 
>You know that, and I know that; the problem is: what assurance do we 
>have that the guy carrying the gun knows that?

	Quite simply, we don't.  However, at the *first* sign of unsafe
behavior with a firearm I consider it my duty to request that said firearm
be emptied and secured.  If the gentle doesn't comply, I then consider it
my duty to watch them like a hawk for the rest of the time and point out
every piece of unsafe behavior I see.  Such annoyance will hopefully cause
them to leave.  If it causes them to become violent, I generally have
several armed people, in addition to myself, who share the same views.

	Who says peer pressure is always a bad thing?

		Erik Aarskog, Axed Root, Calontir

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Apology and Retraction
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:28:22 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: SCA

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings and
prayers for the blessings of Allah.

I apologize abjectly and publicly to Earl Dafydd ap Gwystl for my remarks
of yesterday.  Having investigated the matter as thoroughly as I am able,
I have determined that he and I have been either the victims of a prank or
an unspeakably absurd set of coincidences.

The circumstances were:
	1.  I received email from Earl Dafydd indicating that he disagreed
with us over the thread on courtesy which implied that he had posted his
disagreement.
	2.  Three hours later I received the shove-it-up-your-ass posting,
which used Dafydd's usual signature.
	3.  The address was not Dafydd's usual address, but I was aware
that he was not at his usual location and did not know what the node
address of his current location was.
	4.  I was outraged and deeply hurt at the impression that someone
to whom I had always accorded respect and courtesy, although I do not know
him well (my lady knows him far better, being of the same household, and
was the more greatly hurt), had told us to shove our opinions up our asses,
the more so since it appeared to impugn not merely me (I'm prepared to
take being told to shove my opinion), but more importantly my lady wife (of
whom I am _not_ prepared to take an instruction to shove her opinions in
such fashion).

I do not know whether the person who posted the impertinent instruction was
attempting a prank and intentionally imitating Earl Dafydd or merely had
the most unfortunate timing I have encountered in a _long_ time.  

The affair has convinced me that the only alternative available to me in 
honor is to permanently withdraw from this forum.

In Service to the Society,

Hossein Ali Qomi/Gregory F. Rose
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Date: 30 Jul 92 05:24:00 GMT

CJ>  From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
CJ>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
CJ>
CJ>  So again, please, can we not drop this thread?
CJ>
CJ>  Sincerely,
CJ>
CJ>  Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East
CJ>
Consider it dropped, at least here on the Rialto.

C'mon folks! Aren't you getting as *bored* with this as I am?

Moreach NicMaolain
(Who regets having answered Stephen publically, just now. Consider this an 
appology to all not involved in this increasingly foolish debate.Even I 
give in to temptation now and then, not a good excuse!)

trifid@agora.rain.com 
 
From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet