HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re:  Random Stuff and Strangeness
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:30:19 GMT

Isaac writes:

> I asked some of these questions to Kansas Jim, but he didn't elaborate on
> his answers, and I was wondering if anyone had differing opinions:

Sorry 'bout that - seemed pretty plain to me.

> 1) What happens when a SK in orrorsh fails a perserverence check
> in a situation where there is no horror nearby and there is no
> combat occouring? (i.e.--discovering a gruesomely killed body in an
> empty warehouse)  K.Jim said that you apply the power of fear as normal,
> taking away cards, markig for death, etc., but if that is the case,
> which horrors fear points do you use?  The big baddie that you are gearing
>up to fight in the end?  And besides, many of the POF effects do not have much

That or the Fear Rating of the nasty who did the gruesome event.

> effect outside of combat.  taking cards, for example, is useless, because
> in noncombat, new cards are recieved as soon as ones are used/lost!  As is

Not true - new cards are not received until the end of the scene.
True, if nothing happens between the horror event and the end of the
scene it has little effect, but if the GM knows that there is still
combat or some other kind of encounter to come before the scene ends,
taking cards is an appropriate thing for the PoF to do.

> the roll again--there is nothing there to use it.  Marking for death...well,
> yeah, but it doesn't seem right...at any rate, perhaps the characters
> should roleplay as if they are scared shitless if they fail, and are allowed
> to act brave if they succeed?

They should do that anyway.  The mechanics of the PoF are there to
insure that the characters are affected as if they are scared,
regardless of how their players act.

> 2) In the akashan airlift, I understand that the SGs basically lifted out
> all the edeinos out of the easternland because of the LB "erupting upwards".

I doubt they were able to get all of them, but probably a sizable portion.

> I assume this pissed a lot of people off, like the delphi council, and I am
> wondering about the aftereffects, and if in fact ALL the edeinos left, and
> if so, are they all in S.America learning that not all technology is "dead"?
> Or were they just dropped off at California?

WEG hasn't said where the edeinos are being taken; I believe that they
are probably dropping them off in North America, probably near some
Living Land reality trees.  The Western Land is another possibility.

> 3)  Any one heard anything on the Tokyo book? Seen it?

Haven't seen any talk on GEnie from WEG about it so I would guess it
isn't on its way to stores yet.

> 4)  When is the next realm update due?

Good question...hopefully soon (though if they wait much longer
Infiniverse Update vol. 2 will be out and they'll have an excuse not
to do one for a while.)


Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
From: Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com (David Wetzel)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: ShatterZone
Followup-To: alt.games.torg
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:13:35 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: dwetzel.mis.stratus.com

In article <gatemail1.0b20971917739@morticia>, Telestro ip Wandrun
<"scotty: :baileyt"@kirk.msoe.edu> wrote:
> 
> You're kidding, right?  Actually *record* Space Rangers so you can watch it 
> again and again?  :)
> 
> If you want *really* cool SF, watch Deep Space 9 or wait for Babylon 5 in late 
> February.
> 
> I suppose that Space Rangers would be the closest to Shatterzone, though...

Humm, this isn't my experience with Shatter Zone (we're playtesting it). 
My impressions is that neither of these comes close (though the comments
I've heard on Babylon 5 are promissing).  Space Rangers might be closer
though.

SZ is not like DS9 because combat may actually happen!  There's actually
adventure and excitement and unusal-ness.  There's also no benevolent
StarFleet looking over your shoulder (and patching things up for free!).

But to make the dialog as bad as Space Rangers would require a really poor
GM and players (where do the networks get the writers for these shows?!?).

Someone also said it was Space Opera, to which I must disagree.  The intent
seems to be hard-core SF.  Space Opera as a genre is closer to Fantasy than
Science Fiction.  Space Opera uses mysticism as a primary element (as in
the Force in Star Wars).  ShatterZone has nothing to support mysticism
(what you choose to hack in is your own business).  The faith skill in SZ
only lets you resist being convinced to do things anathetical to your
faith.  You don't get miricles and there's no magic.

So, if you want to know what to read/watch to get ready for SZ, try the
following: Aliens, Blade Runner, the Dorsai novels by Dickson, LeGuin's the
Left Hand of Darkness (for the Alien-ness, though anything by LeGuin is
just plain good reading!) and Gibson's cyberpunk novels (Neuromancer, Count
Zero, and Mona Lisa Overdrive).

My Opinion, of course.


Thanks,
Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: The Miracle of California
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 06:44:40 GMT

On Thu, 21 Jan 1993, Thanatos wrote:

> What the #&*$ is the Miracle?  Did I miss something? 

The "miracle" is the reclamation of California by Core Earth reality; at
least, this is how CEers see it.  In fact, it was just Nippon putting its
stelae down, so that normal CE tech appears to work again.

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: geurink@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Josh Geurink)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Infiniverse #30 (spoilers)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 22:18:30 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sleepy.cc.utexas.edu

In article <1k6pgeINNkii@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis) writes:
>
>
>Did anyone notice the mention of the election of a new President
>in one of the dispatches? Does this mean that Quartermain is out of power? 
>Who's controlling the Delphi Council?

And if Quartermain IS out of office, and his successor is Ty Gardner,
does anyone suppose he's keeping his campaign promises?

I can just see the people out there...
"Hey!  The Living Land is going away!  It must be the election of _Ty
Gardner_ that's responsible!"

And Ty then appoints his wife to replace Ellen Connors...


I am the terror that flaps over Cairo...
	I am the bill allowing Jakatts in the US military...
		_I_ am DRAMA DUCK!!!

or possibly a BIG Rush Limbaugh fan.
From: geurink@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Josh Geurink)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Players/GM's
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:13:17 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: grumpy.cc.utexas.edu

In article <8fNLMii00VpBM1IkUC@andrew.cmu.edu> Andrew David Weiland <aw1s+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> geurink@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Josh Geurink) writes,
>>I don't know who it was that once did this, but it WAS a good idea...
>>In the subject lines of your articles, I think a designation for GM
>>only should apply to certain topics.  I, for one, have players that
>>read this newsgroup, and I'll be running TGMR... at some point.
>>I don't particularly WANT the players to read things like...
>>"...fail a perseverence check, like when they meet the Gaunt Man..."

>In other newsgroups they're called spoilers, and I think the same
>designation applies here.  You could separate your post into non-spoiler
>portions (what happens when they fail a perseverance check?) and spoiler
>portions (examples from a WEG module).  I think that its better than
>labeling some posts GM only; because not all GMs run modules and many
>GMs are players in WEG modules.

(Sound of hand slapping forehead)  Yeah!  That's what I meant.  Really.

>Still, I'm not sure if the example you cited was a real spoiler.  What
>secret information is revealed?  That the players may meet the Gaunt
>Man?  Well, the module is named "The Gaunt Man Returns" so it seems the
>players will strongly suspect that already.  They'll just have to
>separate player knowledge and character knowledge; which, I think, TORG
>players have already been doing for a long time.  For instance, how many
>characters thought that, before Tharkold arrived, there were only five
>invading realms.

Yeah, well... That post just called the idea to mind.  I mean, sure
the players probably ASSUME they'll run into TGM in TGMR, but why slap
them in the face with it?  But, I admit, there are far better examples
I could have used...

(JHG, CVE peers out of the screen at everyone involved with
those Infiniverse posts)

...and you KNOW who you are.

Besides, on the topic of player vs character knowledge, yeah.  I agree.
How could the players NOT know Japan was invaded with all those character
templates labeled "Nippon Tech"?  In minor cases like that, I just dock
the players some possibilities.  It's just that, in a MAJOR adventure --
TGMR, for example -- I wouldn't want the players to know ANYTHING
about the adventure.   Fear of MAYBE meeting TGM vastly outshadows
the fear when characters KNOW they'll meet him.


I am the terror that flaps over Cairo...
	I am the Noxema that cleans Salisbury's face...
		_I_ am DRAMA DUCK!!!

Ho Hum...
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: bpostow@eniac.cs.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow)
Subject: Re: Players/GM's
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:59:47 GMT
X-Posted-From: eniac.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

well I am a player and I can generally tell when I see something that
I can read and when I see something that I can't... then again if you
have players who will use any excuse to look at the stuff ....


--


Brian Postow :: The Pasta Knight -- That noodleheaded Knight in shiny armour
			 	    |"A mathematician is a blind man
pessimist, existentialist,	    | in a dark room looking for a 
advanced murphologist 		    | black cat which isn't there" - Darwin
				    |
"pessismism for a better tomorrow"  |Life is just one nonsequitor after catfish

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: hutch@ibeam.intel.com (Steve Hutchison)
Subject: Re: guns, falling, and object TOU (long)
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 02:59:02 GMT

wolf@cheshire.oxy.edu (Clinton Richard Wolf) writes:

+       All this physics stuff makes my head ache...
+       Thing fall down. Go boom. Big Hurt.
+       Bwana get shot. Go 'splat!' Big Hurt.
+       Object get hurt. Go crash. Big Hole.
+       'Nuff said.

+-- Clint, having nightmares of big mathematical and metaphysical correlations
+          chasing him around, holding him down, slobbering, slavering, and try-
+          ing to explain muzzle velocities to him, or for that matter, why 
+          science can be a faith...

Clint, demonstrating that he's spent too much time in Living Land and
completely lost his Tech axiom....  *-)
From: geurink@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Josh Geurink)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Players/GM's
Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:14:36 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Distribution: world
Reply-To: geurink@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Josh Geurink)
NNTP-Posting-Host: sleepy.cc.utexas.edu
Originator: geurink@sleepy.cc.utexas.edu

I don't know who it was that once did this, but it WAS a good idea...

In the subject lines of your articles, I think a designation for GM
only should apply to certain topics.  I, for one, have players that
read this newsgroup, and I'll be running TGMR... at some point.
I don't particularly WANT the players to read things like...

"...fail a perseverence check, like when they meet the Gaunt Man..."

No flames intended -- I just think there should be fair warning.


Oh, and if anyone really wants an interesting game and happens to own
a Genesis, check out Chakan: The Forever Man.  Chakan looks EXACTLY 
like the Gaunt Man (at GenCon two years ago, Chakan's creators --RAK
Graphics-- and WEG were postitioned next to each other.  Imagine my
surprise at finding  (I thought) a HUGE Gaunt Man portrait!)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
King Rat                       | "You got the power (Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!)"
Josh Geurink, C.V.E.           | "You got the might (No way!)"
_C_ertified _V_ampire _E_xpert | "Get ready for battle (Give me your money!)"
geurink@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu     | "Defeat the Black Knight!"
`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: gt7219a@prism.gatech.edu (the manatee)
Subject: The NNFL
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:50:32 GMT


" And the Tampa Bay Buccaneers went through another losing season this
year making 19 years since they've had more wins than losses.  This 
is all despit the fact that Tampa was virtually untouhed by the Wars,
all of their players were stormers, and the Pope (from Italy) personnaly
blessed each player at the beginning of the season.  Could it be problems
with the owner of the Bucs Hugh Culverhouse?  Naah...."

my two cents in

the manatee

*********************************************************************
*"I was held up by a liquor store"            Irwin Maurice Fletcher*
*"There's a girl in New York City, who calls herself a human        *
* trampoline.  Sometimes when I'm falling flying tumbling through   *
* turmoil I say 'Oh so this is what she means'"           Paul Simon*
*"Brad thought it strange to see his roomate eating raw human       *
* flesh.  But then, college life itself is pretty strange."         *
*                                                                   *
*  this really pointless .sig brought to you by the manatee         *
*********************************************************************

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: PERRY@taurus.dnet.ge.com
Subject: RE: shatterzone questions
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:11:17 GMT

 
> Well, I admit SR is kind of hokey, but that seems more like the feel to
> me.  I'd have to see the shatterzone rules to really make a determination.
>     - Burton


FIRST NOTE: Tomorrow, I hope, I will post the official flyer the WEG has put
out about ShatterZone.


SECONDNOTE:
ShatterZone is not SPACE RANGERS!!!!!!!
  well, not if I can help it  :}
  I don't like SR, but Ed (Stark) and Bill (Smith) do, go figure.

   On the other hand, it isn't going to be ST:TNG or ST:DS9 (although the 
frontier is kinda close to DS9).  

   My vision (and since the Campaign Book will kind of be biased by it) is a 
much grittier space arena.  The Core and Near Colonies are ugly, filled with 
corporate corruption, power plays, poverty and hopelessness.  The Frontier
is filled with all the dangers of the frontier with few of the pleasantries.
  Remember, WEG already has Star Wars and they don't need another Good vs.
Evil universe with soppy soap operas.  Instead, look for the many shades of
gray that come from mixing Cyberpunk with Space Travel.  IE. Bladerunner in 
space.
  This isn't to say everything is this way, but if the government and the 
corps get their way, it will be.

BTW, the basic system is very close to Torg.

     __       ____            __   
    /\ \     /  \ \          /_/\ Brian Perry
   //\\_\   / /\ \_\        _\_\/  perry@Taurus.dnet.ge.com
  / \// /   \ \/ /_/___    / /\
 /   /_/     \  ____/_/   / / /   Disclaimer: My views do not necessarily
/ /\ \_\      \ \ \      / / /     match those of WEG and should not be 
\ \/ / /       \ \_\    /_/ /      considered theirs.
 \__/_/         \/_/    \_\/
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: 910427m@axe.acadiau.ca (JASON MATTHEW MCDONALD)
Subject: Perserverence 
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:22:44 GMT


Hi, I just got the Gaunt Man Returns, and want to make sure that I 
comprehend the Perserverence rules before I kill all my PCs:)

The module seems to fairly liberal with it's Perserverence Checks (Pchecks), 
so it's no question when to check, but it doesn't really cover Combat 
Pchecks, that is when a Character bites the big one, should there be a 
Pcheck?  if so, even if they previously passed the Pcheck.  also, say that 
they fail the Pcheck when they meet the Gaunt Man (gee, imagine that:).  
Does he distribute the five pts/character equally amongst the players, or 
can he really work on one character?

Any other inconsistencies in the module or perserverence that I haven't 
found yet, that have been pointed out and discussed previously in this group 
would be kindly appreciated.  This will probably be the last module I'll 
play with this group, so I want it to be perfect.  I plan on getting sound 
effects and various props and anything else to make the module work well.  
any ideas?
     ______________________________________________________________
   /|    ________________    ________ |   Jason "Toast" McDonald   |
  | |       /  ___  ___ ____    /     |   910427m@axe.acadiau.ca   |
  | |      /  /  / /__//___    /      |   Acadia University,       |
  | |     /  /__/ /  / ___/   /       |   Wolfville, Nova Scotia   |
  | |--------------------------------------------------------------|
  |/______________________________________________________________/
                                              (c) sigfiles inc.

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: hutch@ibeam.intel.com (Steve Hutchison)
Subject: Re: guns, falling, and object TOU (long)
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:32:53 GMT

wolf@cheshire.oxy.edu (Clinton Richard Wolf) writes:
>In article <C1A7A4.GIu@ibeam.intel.com> hutch@ibeam.intel.com (Steve Hutchison) writes:
>>wolf@cheshire.oxy.edu (Clinton Richard Wolf) writes:
>>
>>>In article <C16oAE.4G1@ibeam.intel.com> hutch@ibeam.intel.com
>>> (Steve Hutchison) writes:
>>>>
>>>>Clint, demonstrating that he's spent too much time in Living Land and
>>>>completely lost his Tech axiom....  *-)
>>
>>> Oh, no. Not you. Who let you on this newsgroup? It was Rick, wasn't it? Rick
>>>told you, didn't he? DIDN'T HE?!?!?
>>
>>Invisible Incendiary never tells.  Sets fire, sometimes, but never tells.
>>
> Except when the stars are right. And Nietzsche behowls the moon...

Nietzsche has a .4 spirit axiom.  (God is dead - Nietzsche)
God imposed a .4 social aziom upon Nietzsche.  (Nietzsche is dead - God)

>>> I can't stand it. It's a conspiracy against law abidin', Lanala lovin' tree
>>>huggers, it is... oh, fergit it. Look, I'm just gonna watch this leaf awhile.
>>>At least it isn't into weight/velocity ratios... yet...
>>
>>It's all a conspiracy, true, but it's the trees and rocks and other alleged
>>inanimate objects that are in on it.  They all have to grow very very large
>>or very very small and warp themselves in strange directions in order to
>>keep us alleged mobile, motile organisms fooled about the nature of the
>>world.  They get very good at it - growing quite large in one direction while
>>shrinking in another, because two creatures are moving and both can see them?
>>
>>What?
>>
>>Surely you knew this already.
>>
> As surely as I know right from back, descendance from transcendensce, and ex-
>postulation from copulation. But that's astride the joint. And focused into
>the eye of the technicolor Cow, who watches in the night by the light of a Mil-
>ler Light, and waits for the Clippers to score a point.
The sacred Chao has been placed in abeyance just so the Clippers can chop off
a few lox for the widdershins fires.  (and widders' shins burn with a thick
greasy orange smoke suitable for vanishing dwarves)

> And don't call me Shirley.
If Shirley can't call you, can Audrey?  No, don't can Audrey, she's doing a
GOOD job, Mister Wolf.

>-- Clint, who will/has explained all the above in the previous/next post, which
>          is, of course, entirely as false as this has been, and should be dis-
>          regarded, in truth.

Post?
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: Perserverence 
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:23:39 GMT

On Mon, 25 Jan 1993, JASON MATTHEW MCDONALD wrote:

> The module seems to fairly liberal with it's Perserverence Checks (Pchecks), 
> so it's no question when to check, but it doesn't really cover Combat 
> Pchecks, that is when a Character bites the big one, should there be a 
> Pcheck?  if so, even if they previously passed the Pcheck.  also, say that 
> they fail the Pcheck when they meet the Gaunt Man (gee, imagine that:).  
> Does he distribute the five pts/character equally amongst the players, or 
> can he really work on one character?

Let's see...

1) Pers. checks in combat:
	Perserverence Checks are extremely handy in combat.  Anything that
would cause a pers check outside of combat will work just as well in
rounds.  When a new batch of fear points is spread around, existing
conditions, such as marks setbacks and stymies, remain, and new ponts are
spent on top of that (so, technically, with enough failed p-checks, a
zombie could have an entire party marked, setback, stymied and devoid of
cards).
	When a Knight dies at the hands of a Horror, the group
Perserverance is lowered, and a check is made at the new value.  Later,
when the characters have had time to ponder their comrade's sacrifice,
they get back the pers lost, plus that much again (so a -2 pers gets back
4 points for a net +2 afterward).

2) Sharing the wealth:
	No Horror must spend his fear points in any specific way.  The
gaunt Dude can blow nine points on one Knights to mark, stymie, setback
and de-cardify him if TGM so desires.

Remember, Orrorsh is fun. :)

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

               //\\--x 
        \\___//   //\\
     > / 0 --\---//  \\
      | o =( [|}      xx
      | o =( [|}		--SMILE!  C'Thulhu loathes you!
     > \ 0 --/ --\\
        //~~~\\    \\_-_-_-o\
               \\
          xx  //
            \\
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: alt.games.torg