HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters)
Subject: Re: Small query on multiple mages in a party...
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:59:57 GMT

In article <712@blue.cis.pitt.edu> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.191728@cc4.kuleuven.ac.be> stud02@cc4.kuleuven.ac.be writes:
>>I have a party in which we have a human mage and an elven thief/magic-user.
>>The mages would like to learn spells from eachother.  Because they have
>
>	[...]
>
>>when learning a spell from a scroll the scroll is destroyed.  Would this be
>>likely to happen to the page the spell is written on in the spellbook?
>
>	I'd say... NOT! Unless you allow spellbooks to be used EXACTLY like
>scrolls, to cast the various spells in the books (WITHOUT the chance for
>blowing away extra spells on either side), it would be amazingly twittish
>to have the spells disappear.
>
>	At the very least, the mages should be able to memorize spells from
>each other's books, and write them down from memory (losing the spell slot
>for the day, of course).
>
>                                 Sea Wasp
>                                   /^\
>                                   ;;;

I'd make it a mite more complicated than simply allowing the players to
swap spellbooks, especially at lower levels.  Unless your players all
apprenticed to the same mage, or the colleges of magic are standardized, 
there will be some differences in how the spells are written in the spell
book.  Even with _Read Magic_, which I'd require when trying to read another
mage's spellbooks, the differences in explanation of somatic gestures could 
cause confusion (borrow a couple of books on Sign Language by different 
authors, ignore the pictures and read the descriptions...).

Thus, the characters would have to teach each other how the spells are cast,
which should require some kind of check on an attribute besides %know. 

For argument's sake, let me list a set of attributes and why I think they 
should be included in the formula:

INT:  This score is already considered via the %know rating.

CHA:  A charater with a low charisma score will have a hard time teaching 
	another, because they do not have the leadership qualities required
	to hold the trainees attention.  Teaching does require leadership.

But, a smart trainee could glean the needed information from the trainer.

How about something like:  (Made up on the fly)

COS = Roll under INT [trainee] - (18 - CHA [trainer]) on a d20
      if successful, roll the %know score.

So, a char with 16 INT, learning from another with a CHA of 5, would have:

	16-(18-5) = 16-13 = 3 in 20 chance of being able to be taught by the
	trainer.  If they made this roll, then the character would have to 
        make the %know roll to actually add the spell to their spellbooks.

What y'all think?

-Coyt




Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: skomedal@solan.unit.no (Knut Torstein Skomedal)
Subject: Re: Specialty Priests and Paladins
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 19:52:30 GMT

In article <2s1iVB3w164w@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us>, tony@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us (Anthony Foglia) writes:
 >      After reading the thread on specialty priests versus clerics and 
 > beginning work on my own pantheon, I have a question.  If their are no 
 > clerics in a campaign (all specialty priests) what about paladins.  Do 
 > they have to choose a god?  If so, are their spells limited to the 
 > relevant spheres?  Do the paladins worship all the gods?
 
The way I see Paladins, they are holy warriors. That, (IMNSHO) means that they
worship some god, and are granted powers from that god. Now the various gods have
different goals and requirements, so the different paladins will have 
different powers. In principle, all gods could support a branch of paladins
in their church-structure, but not all gods would be interested. A god of
agriculture probably wouldn't bother, but a god of justice or death would be
almost certain to have one, just to get the perfect set of officers for the
current Jihad.
Besides, why the heck not? Its just too great an opportunity to miss.

skomedal@solan.unit.no
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:42:08 EST
From: <SFC104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
 <1992Dec11.222022.2965@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>  <Bz5n1A.F4r@jabba.ess.harris.com>
 <Mf_sCIm00YUoQ4HMUb@andrew.cmu.edu>  <Bz7rHM.FDv@jabba.ess.harris.com>
 <kf_xhXK00awSM1Q5RU@andrew.cmu.edu> <Bz95p6.2J0@jabba.ess.harris.com>




My DM did something very nasty to a Wemic essance-master of mine during
a battle.  A hidden psion placeed/"cast" an aversion to magic in my head.
Did that ever do the trick.  Every time I tried to cast a spell I was
overcome with fear.  Boy did that suck.  As far as capturing a psion,
you could have an NPC psion with that aversion displine and slap that on
the PC psion (although this would only work for a limited time) or create
an area that has a psi aversion with in it, and just notice the reaction
on the players face when you say: "As you try to use your trusted abilities
you are overcome with intense fear, make a save."  Believe me it sucks.


                                               BT

brian@opus.chem.psu.edu
From: scythe@stein.u.washington.edu (The Grim Reaper)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Dwaven Bards (and 1/2ling too!)
Date: 18 Dec 92 05:03:40 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Dec18.022414.17783@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> brehob@plantain.cps.msu.edu (Mark W Brehob) writes:
>What are people's feelings on the Dwarven Bard's ability to shrug off  
>spells?
And halfling's too =)

>Is this too powerful?

In some ways, yes.  But remember he can only shrug off spells
that he's learnt.  So if he doesn't have a wide selections of spells,
it shouldn't be too unbalancing.

>Is it about equivelent to casting spells?
Maybe.  But as I'm SURE Seawasp will be quick to point out,
this suggests that normal mages should also be able to shrug off
these spells, since they are able to study them just as much.

>
>When does the ability come into play?
Whenever a spell known to the bard is cast by someone, and the
AoE would include the bard.  Perhaps he has to know that the 
spell is being cast also.

>Does the bard have to "Hum a counter tune?"
I don't recall for dwarves, but 1/2lings have to hum if the spell
has no verbal component, and whistle if it does.

>Make a spell lore role to recognize it?
>??????
They have to make their chance to learn roll.

>
>Also, on the Compleat books:
>I felt that the books are for the most part reasonable.  Most of the kits 
>have enough of a disadvantage that they arn't all that great.  I feel 
>that they do a nice job of balancing out multi-class advantages.
>I would NOT allow a kit for a multiclass.  No even for dwarves or bards.
>Multi-class is enough of a kit.
Definitely.  Especially the bard/thief multiclass.

>I feel that with a few execptions the bard kits are OK.
>The acrobat type kit is out of wack.  I feel that the blade is fine.  I
>could see the multiclass bards getting out of hand. (I don't consider the
>bard ones to be kits.....)
The bard kits are all pretty munchkin, compared to fighter's/priest's/
thief's/mage's.  4 bonus profs per kit, and mucho special abilities.
But they're *fun* munchkin.  Look at the blade-
can cast spells, fight as thief, but can do many nifty special weapon
tricks (a thought for the blade - cast darkness a lot.  You'll be much better
off than your opponents =)

>
>Question, any clues on why a 1/2ling can't be a Druid?
Dunno.  There aren't a lot of explantions fr class restrictions.
The whistler is pretty close to one tho.
>
>Please respond here if you want, but also to me
>brehob@cps.msu.edu
>Thank
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Date: 19 Dec 92 04:33:40 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd3.cis.pitt.edu

In article <ofAc=f_00VoxFoxO5e@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck) writes:
>>The best psi-system I've found sofar is the one GURPS uses but I
>>haven't had time to adapt this to AD&D yet.

	The best psi system I've ever encountered is the one in Space Opera.

>Do you define 'best' as 'most unbalanced'?  Tell me which of following
>100 point characters is cooler:
>	someone who can teleport himself anywhere in the universe
>	someone who can teleport himself (and most other things)
> 	  anywhere in the galaxy
>	someone who can mentally control anyone anywhere in the galaxy
>
>Psionicsts in gurps were horrendous, I think even Sea Wasp would tone
>them down a bit...\

	Hmm. How did you manage those on 100 points? I think my 200 point
psi with major disads couldn't even come close to THAT stuff. Sure, he could
do almost anything in a kinda halfassed way, but he couldn't kick ANY ass
without a lot of careful planning. His major asset, despite tons of
psi powers, was his intelligence and education.

	The thing I don't like about GURPS is that its mechanics are the
same for everything that's done; there isn't even a variation in the MANNER
in which you obtain ratings in powers. Thus swinging a sword is the same as
piloting a starship... Same objection I had to I.C.E.'s psi system --
all they did was xerox off their spellcasting rules and called spells "psions"
and that was that. Ick.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: bill@cac.washington.edu (Bill Whitson)
Subject: Re: A Matter of Honor
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:25:31 GMT

Man, I guess this one really depends on the flavor of the campaign you're
playing in and the diety your paladin worships.  In my particular campaign
the set of rules that paladins go by depends upon the god that they worship.
In one of my countries paladins work directly for the church (who makes the
laws).  Therefore, they sometimes get directed to do slightly underhanded
things.  As paladins, they are justified in that; 1. It's for the greater
good of their lord, and 2. They are being instructed by the government and
the law makers - so what they are doing is completely lawful if somewhat
distasteful.  This country is also rather primitive - women are objectified
and treated as property.  Paladins feel completely justified in upholding
this idea as it is one of the precepts set by their god.  Even the greatest
heroes of this land have always had these faults.

In the end, it comes right down to how your DM interprets alignment and
your character's purpose.  My paladins would see the thief as a animal
below contempt and would rough him up as neccesary to uphold the law and
protect the greater good in society.

Sounds like you need to talk with your DM and decide exactly what the mission
of paladins in his campaign is.

Have fun!

Bill
bill@booster.u.washington.edu

---
Sorry, I'm .signorant

Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 19:16:50 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Class' power (was Re: how to imprison a psionicist)
	<974@blue.cis.pitt.edu>


seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
> In article <YfAcFSi00VoxJoxOxf@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E.\
>  Beck) writes:
> >>         Do all psionicist HAVE Shadow Form and Dominate? Odd, mine doesn't.\
> ..
> >No, but *his* psionicist has these abilities and finds them
> >unbalancing.  It's ludicrous to argue that X isn't too powerful
> >because I don't have X.  
> 
> 
>         Ahh, but I'm not (necessarily) arguing that HIS psionicist isn't too
> powerful. I AM arguing, however, that AS A CLASS Psionicists are not.
> 
>         Giving a single example, or even several, of an overpowering psi
> is not a proper method of demonstrating that a class is overpowering (any
> more than showing examples of dark-haired mass murderers proves that
> as a class dark haired people are mass murderers).
> 
>         Instead, you must demonstrate that all, or nearly all, examples of
> psis WILL be overwhelmingly powerful.
You use a very narrow minded method of hypothesis testing.
Considering every possible occurance is not only impossible, but in
this case misleading.  A random combination of powers (you want to
show ALL examples of PSIS, so that includes all possible combinations
of powers) will clearly not be effective.  But there is a rational
method behind the selection, they aren't being chosen at random.  Thus
it doesn't make sense to test all combinations, only those likely to
occur. 

If I make the claim "heavy weight boxing champions are tough
to beat in a fist fight" would you dispute it?  Probably not.  But if
tomorow the heavyweight boxing champion was put in a coma and
permanently paralyzed he certainly would be easy beat.  Yet the claim
is still valid (under most people's hypothesis testing schemes).  If
it makes you happy, I'll restate the psion argument:  with a rational
selection scheme (great...now he's going to make me evaluate all
rational selection schemes...) psionicists as a class are more
powerful than the others.  
 
> > thought psis could pick their powers.  Is this incorrect?  If it is
> >right that a psi is guaranteed to get whatever powers he wants.  
> 
> 
>         The times I've played, Psi powers were rolled randomly. Sometimes
> you were able to choose one, but you weren't GUARANTEED to get to
> pick.
Oh, so you use the "random hose" method.  Ick.  I'd prefer a class be
toned down than have the "1-4 you're mondo, 5-20 you suck" method of
producing an "balanced" character.  

	joe


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: ddj+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio)
Subject: Re: Fighter/Priest of God of War | was:Re: Clerics vs. Specialty Priests?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:55:25 GMT

In article <7909@news.duke.edu> dks@acpub.duke.edu writes:
>	I haven't read the Comp Priest HB (looked thru, yes, but didn't
>deem it worth buying) -- am I getting this right? Specialty priests of
>War Gods may specialize?

I see no reason why not.  Just figure out how powerful it is and
consider it a granted power.  I'd consider letting a priest of war
specialize in a weapon before I'd consider giving them the power to
turn undead.  I also don't think I'd grant the sphere of Healing to a
god of war (depends on the god's other attributes and personality).
-- 
Doug DeJulio

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: cannell@churchill.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Eric.Cannell)
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Organization: NCR Corp., Columbia SC
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 18:04:56 GMT

>>>My psionicist would think you were very funny.  You simply can't
>>>threaten to kill a 6th level psionicist.  If the situation looks
>>>unpleasant (poof!), he's gone.  It's not a spell so you can't

Somebody suggested the metal helmet. If that works great, but if not
why not try to make the psion want to stay imprisoned? For example, 
cat quest or geas or charm or love potion etc.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: casivils@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (craig sivils)
Subject: imprison a psionicist
Summary: Imprison, no problem
Keywords: none
Organization: Lockheed Engineering and Sciences
Date: 13 Dec 92 20:23:35 GMT

     Perhaps I tend to take a simple solution to things like this, but if you
don't want the player to escape then don't let them.  Thats right, don't let
them escape.  (How?)  Simple, the DM always has at least two huge advantages 
over the players.  1.  DM knows everything in the world, 2.  DM controls
everything in the world.

     Make up some new spells, magic items and the problem is simple.  In the 
Tome there is an invisibility purge spell.  Justification for a much higher 
Psionic Purge spell.  An area which affects psionic powers (how?, you make it  
up, nullifies prevents leaving, prevents entry, causes damage to psionicists
(sp) or even a temporary loss of power).  A spell similar to feeble mind might 
cause a psionic some problems.  The player might be real delighted with their
newly acquired cursed amulet of nocerabalfunnystuff.  (I know, my spelling is
real bad).  The point is that even if the NPCs aren't sure that the PCs are 
psionics, any intelligent NPC would realize that there are psionics out there
and would develope a method to fight back against such a threat.  There is no
rule stating that this method has to be one which the PCs have seen before.

				Craig

Still working on a fancy logo
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: dbasinge@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Mike Basinger)
Subject: Looking for Character generator program
Organization: Indiana University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:00:09 GMT

I'm looking for a character generator program for the IBM or unix
system. Does anybody know of a good one.

Mike

--
D. Michael Basinger: Not Speaking for Indiana University 
dbasinge@silver.ucs.indiana.edu		
dbasinge@indiana.BITNET (Bitnet)
dbasinge@arapahoe.ucs.indiana.edu (NeXT Mail)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: scythe@stein.u.washington.edu (The Grim Reaper)
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:19:08 GMT

In article <Bz9K6B.71E@sci.kun.nl> gip207@sci.kun.nl (gip2 course) writes:
>In <1992Dec13.221033.22732@sfu.ca> akostur@fraser.sfu.ca (Andre John Kostur) writes:
>
>> Here's a way to imprison a psionicist.....put a normal helmet on his head.
>> (PsiHB page 16 "...But if the psionicist is wearing a normal helmet of any
>> sort, he cannot use his powers...")
>
>I'd rule this only work for mind-affecting powers (i.e. most telepathy and
>mabye clairsentient powers) but woudn't affect things like psychometabolism
>or teleportation.
>
>		-Smooth

I think it works because the weight of the helmet keeps the psi from
concentrating.  Thus, all powers are disrupted.
From: bh967@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Greg Weller)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: AL-QADIM vs. Forgotten Realms
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:34:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


I really fail to see what the problem is in having the (Western)
Realms, Kara-Tur and Al-Qadim co-exist on the single planet of
Abeir-Toril.  Don't they teach cultural history anymore??? If 
they did, then anyone arguing to the contrary would quickly
realize that there were vast cultural (and I mean *vast*)
differences between 'Christian Europe' and the East and Middle-East
of the Medieval period. As for the relgious aspects--have the same
gods ever been worshipped in different areas of our world?? 
(meaning, of course, the dominant religious groups, disregarding
things like missionaries, etc. for the sake of this arguement).

The only problem I have with the Al-Qadim set, and one that I 
presume TSR will remedy in the (near) future, is the lack of a
coherent trading and commerce system between Al-Qadim and  the 
rest of the Realms. 

Greg
From: pmenard@cse.unl.edu (Patrick Menard)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Dwaven Bards (and 1/2ling too!)
Date: 18 Dec 1992 04:03:31 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu

brehob@plantain.cps.msu.edu (Mark W Brehob) writes:

>What are people's feelings on the Dwarven Bard's ability to shrug off  
>spells?
It kicks ass!!

>Is this too powerful?
It evens it out considering they can't cast spells.  Maybe add a modifier for
the difference between the casters level and the defending dwarfs level so a

>Is it about equivelent to casting spells?
see above

>When does the ability come into play?
whenever a spell is cast at the dwarf I believe.

>Does the bard have to "Hum a counter tune?"
hmmmm, i dunno.  sure, I say he does.

>Make a spell lore role to recognize it?
its based off the "% to know spell" under intelligence

>Also, on the Compleat books:
>I felt that the books are for the most part reasonable.  Most of the kits 
>have enough of a disadvantage that they arn't all that great.  I feel 
>that they do a nice job of balancing out multi-class advantages.
except for bard kits.

>I would NOT allow a kit for a multiclass.  No even for dwarves or bards.
>Multi-class is enough of a kit.
exactly!

>I feel that with a few execptions the bard kits are OK.
>The acrobat type kit is out of wack.  I feel that the blade is fine.  I
>could see the multiclass bards getting out of hand. (I don't consider the
>bard ones to be kits.....)
most of the "kits" when multiclassed give the character a big edge on others
of his class even 4 levels higher.

>Question, any clues on why a 1/2ling can't be a Druid?
Any clue as to why elves can't?


Shadow
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: hutch@ibeam.intel.com (Steve Hutchison)
Subject: Re: Druid Shapechange
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:34:43 GMT

bret@technix.mn.org (Bret Indrelee) writes:

>In article <1992Dec14.231807.1@wharton.upenn.edu> 
>Loren Miller (millerl@wharton.upenn.edu) writes:

>>On another question about druid shapechangers, [druid makes cash by
>>becoming venomous snake and selling venom]

>I would allow it.  It would be most unfortunate for the player however,
>since milking the venom of a snake is bad for them.  It shortens their
>lifespan, and I would do the same to the character.

Where do you get this silly idea?  The only "bad" thing for the snake
is the sometimes stress of being handled.  There are snakes (generally
kept in zoos or in special medical facilities) which have been giving
venom for many many years.  None of the descriptions I've read of these
operations say anything about them having to replace the snakes because
their lives are shortened - if anything, they tend to gloat about how
much nicer it is for the snake to have regular meals and medical care
and a nice environment to live in.

"Shortens their lifespan"  - do you also believe the one about how
men should avoid ejaculation because it "depletes vital fluids"??

Hutch
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Bastard DM from Hell &a matter of Honour
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:59:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.194712.1@economics.adelaide.edu.au> ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au writes:
>Everyone knows what honour is.  You may choose not to follow it but you still
>know what it is.

Only in a very trivial sense.  Everyone knows that honor means following a
set of rules that paladins seem to like.  Whether they actually know the
details in those rules is another story.

>> Trial by combat may well have existed in the medieval times, but in
>> AD&D terms it could not be considered a good act.  It does lead
>> directly to the "might is right" syndrome.  Consider, the young
>> upstart noble decides to challenge the wise old sage on a point of
>> history.  The noble will win (assuming the sage has no special powers)
>> and hence the noble is correct?  I don't think so.  In a situation
>> where a duel is offered and accepted then I feel that this is the only
>> time that trial by combat is fair.
>This would not be trial by combat.  The young noble (proably level 1 ftr) would
>be picking on a non combatant, and that is decidedly dishonourable!

What's a noncombatant?  It would seem that the only reasonable definition for
a noncombatant is "someone who'd have a lot less chance of winning than the
paladin", in which case that captured thief is also a noncombatant.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
      The truth is still the truth even if you choose to ignore it.