From: nadeem@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (Mohammed Nadeem  ISE-GRAD)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: RAMAJANAM BHUMI: AYODHYA-New Archaeological Discoveries
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:56:20 GMT
Organization: College of Engg. & Tech., Ohio University, Athens, Ohio


In  Article 122890 of soc.culture.indian raj writes:
> 
> The point is not whether it is Ram's birth place or not, but that a
> temple *believed to be representing Ram's birthplace* stood at this site.
> 
> 
> >Moreover, nobody has
> >ever replied cogently to the question "So what if it was Ram's
> >birthplace?"
> 
> And has anybody ever cogently tried to answer the question "So what
> if Babar's victory tower is demolished?"
	
	Answer: NO PROBLEM 
> 
> >: the fact is that it is disputed, best to leave it
> >alone and not try to show one's purushatva by trying to undo history.
> 
> 
> And the basic underlying current of the Mahabharata is that Kauravas
> had made everything disputed - starting from the Kingdom down to the 
> personal freedom of Draupadi - and that did not mean that the things 
> should not have been Righted! 
> 
> >One cannot conquer time. Even if the hindu temple is put up, what will
> >it prove?  that we are "men" enough to "redeem" our ancestors'
> >collective honour?  
> 
> No. The question is not as much of redeeming our ancestor's honour, as
> it is of driving home the point that in future the attitude of insult
				       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> and agression towards the native culture, heritage, and institutions
> will not be allowed to go unchallenged.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Is there a threat?
	
> >sorry, i don't think it will prove anything except
> >that we are a fractious idle lot with nothing better to do than fight
> >over ruins that our ancestors at least had the gumption to build.
> 
> And the point being advanced by the opponents of RJB is that nobody's 
> ancestors never built no building at no site anywhere near no temple
> in Ayodhya.
> (Get it?)
> A change in this attitude, an acceptance that what was done was wrong,
> and that in today's India the attitude towards the native culture will
> have to different, are some minor evolutionary changes that will bring
> a lot of social peace into Indian society.
> 
> >Why not let sleeping dogs lie and build a Ram Janmabhoomi Smarak half
> >a mile away and put up a big signboard near the mosque that says:
> >
> >WE THE HINDUS OF  ___  IN OUR MAGNANIMITY GRANT THIS MOST SCARED SITE
> >TO THE MUSLIMS AND IN MEMORY OF OUR GREAT SACRIFICE HAVE BUILT AN
> >EVEN GREATER TEMPLE HALF A MILE AWAY WITH A TRANSPONDER THAT RELAYS
> >YOUR PRAYERS TO THE SAME PLACE THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN RELAYED HAD YOU
> >PRAYED IN THE ORIGINAL SPOT!!!.
> 
> And what's wrong with the sign:
> 
> >
> >WE THE BABRI SUPPORTERS OF  ___  IN OUR MAGNANIMITY GRANT THIS MOST 
> >SACRED SITE TO THE HINDUS AS A SIGN OF OUR BELIEF THAT WHATEVER BABAR
> >DID WAS WRONG, AND IN MEMORY OF OUR GREAT CHANGE OF HEART HAVE BUILT A
> >BABRI MEMORIAL WITH THE HELP OF THE HINDUS HALF A MILE AWAY FROM THE 
> >SITE WHICH BABAR HAD DESTROYED.
> 
> YES, I know what is wrong with this sign. It implies suffering on part
> of the memory of the psecular Babar and his supporters, and in case of your
> suggestion the suffering will rightfully be inflicted on the communalistic
> Hindu traditions of the communalistic and decadent ancient Indian civilization.
> 
> >Surely this will be in the finest hindu tradition of giving away what one
> >holds most beloved, 
> 
> Sir, the era when Hindus gave away what they loved most is gone. That 

	Excuse me, but just a few lines above 'you' were the one
	talking about the same era.

> tradition was meant for the Yuga of decency and not today. Today's hindu
> is out to recover whatever has been stolen from him/her over the last 
> numerous centuries by the barbarian (but Psecular, though!) invaders
> aaiiicchhhh. . . , bhikshuks.
> 
> >even to the extent of one's own son (e.g. the ganting
> >of Nachiketa to Yama) in order to achieve salvation.
> >
> 
> No sir, First I want to secure the survival of my home, my hearth, 
                                                 ^^       ^^
> my life, my culture, and my religious and social institutions in 
  ^^       ^^              ^^
> THIS world, and then and only then Will I worry about the hereafter.

	The basic underlying difference between 'your' types and
	Rajib types.  Everyone knows how judicious 'I', 'me', 'mine', 'my'
	types can be.

> May I request you to lock this stuff about "salvation" and "hereafter"
> in a box - and may as well donate it to the psecular bhikshuks?
> 
> 
> >Ahimsa virasya dharmam.... regards, Rajib
> 
> Shariramaadyam khalu dharmasaadhanam.....
> 
> (Trans : Preserving the body is the first step towards being
> able to perform any Dharma/duty, and I am referring here
> to the body of the Hindu Sociaety)
> 
> 
> ---raj

	May I add that what Rajib said, perfectly makes sense.  It is
	high time that we Indians forget about being Hindu, Muslims,
        Sikh, Christian, etc. and march towards progress.  It doesn't
	make a difference who gives up the claim (whoever does so is
	definitely a better Indian) but from a national point of view,
	any thing that causes so much of pain, ill-will, loss of
	national harmony, time, money, energy, effort, and life is
	not worth a dime.  If the same resources are utilized in
	a constructive direction, it will be more nationalistic.  We
	are not here to prove "who's the boss", as suggested in 
	another posting, or to act like two fighting kids.  It is not
	"Indian" nor religious to fight for things such as RJB/BM.
	I sincerely hope and wish that my fellow Indians rise above
	these petty issues and divert their energies towards more
	positive issues.

	Nadeem.
-- 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   Mohammed Nadeem	  e-mail: nadeem@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
			        : aldstf20@ouaccvmb.ucls.ohiou.edu
	"TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO TREAT YOU"