From: macauley@bnr.ca (John MacAuley)
Subject: Re: What's the secret of hitting heavy top-spin groundstrokes
Reply-To: macauley@bnr.ca (John MacAuley)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 18:40:18 GMT

>>>bmok@uucp (Bert Mok) writes:
>>>Those of you heavy top spin players, would you give me a few tips on
>>>how to apply top spin to my shots?
>>>
>>>One rule I heard is: get under the ball with racquet face open and
>>>quickly rub over the ball with the wrist, it's all in the wrist.
>>>
>>>I tried it without much success.  When I get under the ball with
>>>racquet face open, my shot flies 6 feet past the baseline.  I probably
>>>don't go over the back and the top of the ball quick enough.

>>In article <1992Oct13.221716.18010@morrow.stanford.edu>,
AS.TLK@forsythe.stanford.edu (Timmer) writes:
>>
>>No, I think the problem is clearly the open racquet face.
>>
>>You don't have to be wristy, just start your swing lower than the
>>ball and follow through high.  But keep that racquet face vertical
>>or slightly closed, else it's Lob City.

In article <1992Oct14.025733.24803@eng.umd.edu>, clin@eng.umd.edu
(Charles Lin) writes:
>
>   In fact, some topspinners start off with a very closed face.  The
>prime example is Guillermo Vilas.   I think it's easier to start with
>a slightly to fairly heavy closed face (meaning that the palm is
>face down. Imagine holding a frying pan, then flip it upside down
>without changing the grip.  That's a closed face for the forehand
>side).  However, when you strike the ball you want to have the face
>more or less perpendicular.
>
>    Personally, I do think that you can't get much spin without using
>the wrist, but the timing is somewhat difficult.  You want the
>wrist to cause the racquet to dip down, but at impact, it should be
>straightened, and then it should point up.  I think the main thing
>is to keep the wrist fairly firm, during impact, (but not exactly rigid 
>and unmoving) so you can hit a solid shot.
>
>    Of course, describing this in words isn't going to be as good
>as getting someone to show you (assuming they know how they do it)
>or to watch the pros very carefully.
>

Well, I have stayed quite for a 1.5 years but now I have
something to say :)

I agree with Charles on all points except the movement of
the wrist.  When I hit a topspin forehand the spin is
generated from a number of things.  The first is the movement
of the racquet from below my knee on the bottom of my swing loop,
up to the contact point just off centre of my body, up to a
finished swing with the racquet over my other shoulder.  The
second component is the motion of driving from the knees bent
position to the legs straight (almost).  The third component
is the hip and shoulder rotation.  All these componets help
to generate the upward racquet speed needed to create topspin.

  Of course forward motion is incorperated into the swinging
movement from all components.  As Charles specified, a closed
racquet face is used during the precontact phase of the swing,
although I think it is more a result of the grip used than a
function of the wrist.  Lendel is a good person to watch for
this.  He has a loose wrist as the brings the racquet from
the low position, but locks it before ball contact.  This gives
him more head speed.
                                           
  The frying pan analogy is the best one I have ever heard.
Pick up your racquet like it was a frying pan.  It is hard
to explain, but the crease of your palm is on the top right
hand (if right handed) edge of the grip.  This is probably
the most exagerated grip you will be able to handle.  I
personally only use it when I need extreme topspin (and I do
mean extreme!).

  Notice how the racquet face is parallel to the ground.
Now hold the racquet with that grip so that it is perpendicular
to the ground.  Your elbow should be bent otherwise you will
never hit the ball :)  Notice how awkward it feels when the
grip is new to you (I hated it at first, actually still do).
The motion needed to bring the face from parallel to
perpendicular gives you a fair amount of upward motion.  It
also puts the contact point off your front hip for more power.

  WARNING:  Be prepared to chase a lot of balls!!!!  You will
            be hitting a lot of the top of the racquet frame.
	    One summer I put 5 balls over the club and into the
	    pool using the same grip on my backhand.

  Boy, I guess you can see I have some repressed posting
complex :)  To finish off this monster posting I would just
like to suggest not using the grip described above for the
following reasons:
	1. It makes your swing more complex.
	2. You can't use it for volleys.
	3. Your swing preparation time increases.

I found that #3 was my biggest problem.  I had already developed
the other strokes so I could toy with my forehand grip for more
topspin.  It works great on clay with the slower game but on grass
or hard courts I felt too rushed.

My suggestion would be to incorporate all the above suggestions
but don't exagerate the swing so much.


--------------------
John MacAuley
FiberWorld R&D,             E-mail: John.MacAuley@bnr.ca
Bell-Northern Research,                  macauley@bnr.ca
Ottawa Canada               Phone:  (613) 765-4966

Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis