From: luong@fps.com (Luong Nguyen-Duy)
Subject: Re: [MISC]  Re: Doing business in Vietnam (was Re: Embargo & Normalization
Organization: Cray Research Superservers Inc., San Diego CA, USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:24:08 GMT

I will not response to the article written by luden@hb3.EBay.Sun.COM for the
following reasons :

  luden@hb3.EBay.Sun.COM wrote :

	-  "nhie^`u te^n ba^'t LU+O+ng cu~ng co' the^? so^'ng nho+` tre^n
		nhu+~ng ngu+o+`i na`y dda^'y."

	- "Chu'c o^ng ma.nh khoe?, a(n nhie^`u cho mau lo+'n dde^? no'i
		phe't cho  ha(ng."

So far, I've treated people who disagree with me with proper respect; and
I expect the same in return.  Binh, in his last article also capitalized
the letter "L" in "ba^'t Lu+o+ng"; but I chose to overlook it and
hoping that it was just a typo.  But no longer !!  Remember all SCV netters
will judge your character on how you handle your wordings.

To, luden@hb3.EBay.Sun.COM, if I really want to "no'i phe't"  why should
I choose to be on the minority side a controversial subject to get the
majority of SCV netters be suspicious of me ?  That would not be logical, would it ?


Luong Nguyen-Duy


===========================================================================



In article <9207280133.AA00715@male.EBay.Sun.COM> luden@hb3.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>>Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese
>>>From: luong@fps.com (Luong Nguyen-Duy)
>>Subject: Re: Doing business in Vietnam (was Re: Embargo & Normalization ( second poll ))
>>Message-ID: <1992Jul24.232435.9554@equalizer.fps.com>
>>Organization: Cray Research Superservers Inc., San Diego CA, USA
>>References: <1992Jul24.025144.11282@equalizer.fps.com> <Brwn6t.6zJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
>>Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:24:35 GMT
>>Lines: 118
>>
>>........DELETE............
>>>da^n to^.c.  To^i sinh ra trong gia ddi`nh da^n da~ cha<~ng nhi`n dda<.ng bao
>>>xa, xin o^ng chi? DDa.o da^n ti`nh.
>>
>>    Thu+' nha^'t, ca'i thi' du. to^i ddu+a ra su+. tha^.t ddang co'
>>be^n VN .  Nhu+~ng ngu+o+`i buo^n ba'n nhu+ va^.y ra^'t nhie^`u .
>>Ho. la` nhu+~ng ngu+o+`i o+? la.i ddo' ; kho^ng pha?i tu+` nu+o+'c
>>ngoa`i ve^` .  Ne^'u ca? nu+o+'c kho^ng la`m va^.y thi` la`m gi` dde^? so^'ng ?
>    Thu+a o^ng Lu+o+ng,
>    O^ng o+? California thi` o^ng co' bie^'t bao nhie^u ddolars dda~
>    ddu+o+.c chuye^?n ve^` VN mo^~i na(m hay kho^ng ?
>    Con so^' khie^m nhu+o+.ng(theo VNTP) la` 700 million dollars/year
>    ddo' o^ng a., o^ng co' tha^'y ai chung quanh o^ng kho^ng gu+?i
>    tie^`n hay qua` ve^` cho tha^n nha^n ho. ha`ng o+? VN hay kho^ng ?
>    Ne^'u o^ng kho^ng tha^'y chu'ng gu+?i thi` cu~ng kho^ng tra'ch
>    o^ng la` ngu+o+`i "dde^? bu.ng ngoa`i da".
>    Ngoa`i ra o^ng co' bie^'t la` bao nhie^u no^ le^. VN o+? Nga,
>    Tie^.p, Hung hay kho^ng? Dda^y chi? la` mo^.t pha^`n
>    cua? ca^u tra? lo+`i khi o^ng kho^ng bie^'t ta.i sao da^n VN
>    so^'ng la^Y la^'t cho dde^'n gio+` nay`.
>    Hay la` o^ng muo^'n nghe nhu+~ng ca^u chuye^.n ngu+o+`i con ga'i VN
>    pha?i ba'n tha^n cho nhu+~ng ngu+o+`i co' tie^`n, ba'n tha^n
>    ra ngoa.i quo^'c la`m ddie^'m thi` o^ng mo+'i bie^'t da^n VN
>    ho. qua(`n qua.i nhu+ the^' na`o ?
>    O^ng co' bie^'t ca'i nghe^` ba'n tro^n(cu~ng la` loa.i "buo^n
>    ba'n", dda^'y o^ng a.) trong ddo'co' nhie^`u te^n ba^'t LU+O+ng
>    cu~ng co' the^? so^'ng nho+` tre^n nhu+~ng ngu+o+`i na`y dda^'y.
>    Kho^ng thi` la`m sao ma^'y mu. Tu' Ba` thong dong nhu+ the^'
>    ho+? o^ng ?
>
>    Sau dda^y la` mo^.t ma^~u chuye^.n to^i ke^? cho o^ng nghe dde^?
>    o^ng tha^'y ngu+o+`i buo^n ba'n "la^'y co^ng la`m lo+`i" nhu+ the^'
>    na`o(theo o^ng thi` ho. "la^'y co^ng la`m gia`u", nhu+ng to^i
>    ti`m sa'ch tha`nh ngu+~ tie^'ng Vie^.t kho^ng tha^'y ca^u cua?
>    o^ng ma` chi? nghe co' ca^u "La^'y Co^ng La`m Lo+`i" ma` tho^i !!!
>
>    "Vo+. cua? Nguye^~n Vi~nh Nghie^.p, CHu? Ti.ch U?y Ban NHa^n Da^n cua?
>    tha`nh pho^' TO^? CHU+'C BUO^N LA^.U MY~ PHA^?M. Cho dde^'n nay
>    thi` gia ta`i cua? ba` ta dda~ le^n dde^'n 6 million dollars
>    (Jan 31, 1992).
>            Theo ba'o "Saigon Today, so^' 8, nga`y Jan 31, 1992)
>        O^ng o+? California thi` co' the^? go.i ddie^.n thoa.i
>        cho to+` bao' Sai Gon Today dde^? kie^?m chu+'ng.
>
>    O^ng co' the^? mua kem Lancome tu+` ba` Nguye^~n Vi~nh Nghie^.p,
>    gia' chi? co' 10 dollar mo^.t lo., thay vi` va`o khoa?ng 30-40
>    dollar o+? My~. Di~ nhie^n la` ddo^` "do?m" cua? Tha'i Lan ro^`i.
>    (Ngu+o+`i to^' ca'o ba` na`y la` Nguye^~n Thi. Xua^n My~,
>    U?y vie^n U?y ban Kie^?m soa't Trung U+o+ng, nhu+ng co' tha^'y o^ng
>    Nguye^~n Vi~nh Nghie^.p bi. gia'ng chu+'c  hay la` la.i tie^'p
>    tu.c tha(ng quan, tie^'n chu+'c dde^? "La^'y Co^ng La`m Gia`u"
>    nhu+ o^ng dda~ ke^?.
>
>
>>La^'y co^ng la`m gia`u, the^' tho^i .  Ne^'u chu'ng ta che^ bay ho. ve^` nhu+~ng
>>ma'nh nung ma` ho. pha?iu xu+? du.ng ddo^'i vo+'i nhau hoa(.c ddo^'i vo+'i
>>chi'nh quye^`n thi` to^i nghi? la` con buo^n o+? dda^u cu~ng
>>va^.y tho^i (thi' du. nhu+ con buo^n Ross Perot) .
>>
>>    DDoo+`i so^'ng va^.t cha^'t cua? da^n chu'ng se~ ddu+o+.c na^ng
>>cao ne^'u thu+o+ng ma~i ddu+o+.c tu+. do .  That's the beauty of capitalism .
>>Ne^'u muo^'n thu+o+ng ma~i ddu+o+.c tu+. do thi` pha?i co^? ddo^.ng cho
>>thu+o+ng ma~i ho+n la` nga(n ca~ng no' .  
>>
>>    Anh Bi`nh co' tha`nh tha^.t nghi~ la` dda so^' nhu+~ng ngu+o+`i la`
>>thu+o+ng ma~i o+? VN la` "nhu*~ng te^n hu't ma'u, ba^'t Lu*o*ng chuye^n nghe^`
>>ho^'i lo^. ha` hie^'p ddo^`ng ba`o" ?  To^i thi` kho^ng nghi~ va^.y .
>>To^i bie^'t la` co' nhie^`u ngu+o+`i cha^m chia? giang la^.n con dden
>>(o+? dda^u cu~ng va^.y tho^i).  Nhu+ng no'i chung, ngu+o+`i la`m thu+o+ng
>>ma~i cu~ng la` ngu+o+`i .  VA` dda so^' con ngu+o+`i kho^ng muo^'n
>>ba('c che.t ai ca? .  Anh Bi`nh co' nghi~ la` ne^'u thu+o+ng ma~i VN ddu+o+.c
>>u?ng ho^. dde^? pha't trie^?n thi` da^n chu'ng se~ kho' bi. lu+` dda?o,
>>ba('c che.t ho+n ba^y gio+` kho^ng ?  That's the beauty of competition !!
>
>    Thu+a O^ng Lu+o+ng !
>    Ne^'u mo.i ngu+o+`i dde^`u nghi~ nhu+ o^ng thi` kho^ng co'
>    nhu+~ng ma^~u chuye^.n tham nhu~ng. Ta.i sao, vi` tham nhu~ng
>    dde^? co' co+ ho^.i ca.nh tranh trong kinh doanh.
>    Dda^'y cu~ng la` "beauty of competition" dda^'y o^ng a. !!!
>    Ngoa`i ra chi? co' nhu+~ng vo+. cua? nhu+~ng vie^n chu+'c cao
>    ca^'p trong chi'nh quye^`n mo+'i ca.nh tranh nhu+ o^ng no'i
>    dde^? thu+.c hie^.n "beauty of competition".
>
>    Sau dda^y la` mo^.t ca^u chuye^.n nu+~a dde^? o^ng tha^'y
>    "beauty of competition":
>
>    "Vo+. cua? Vo~ Nha^n Tri', Tha`nh U?y kie^n thanh tra tha`nh pho^'
>    Sa`i Go`n, to^? chu+'c BUO^N LA^.U THUO^"C MEN. Cho dde^'n nay
>    thi` gia ta`i cua? ba` ta dda~ le^n dde^'n 3.5 million dollar.
>            Theo ba'o "Saigon Today, so^' 8, nga`y Jan 31, 1992)
>
>>Ne^'u va^.y thi` anh Bi`nh co' nghi? la` chi'nh vi` su+. dda`n a'p
>>con buo^n cu?a anh va` nhu+~ng ngu+o+`i cu`ng y' nghi~ dda~ giu'p
>>nhu+~ng con buo^n gian la^.n de^? gia`n ba('t che.t lu+`a dda?o ddo^`ng
>>ba`o ho+n kho^ng .   Monopoly gives raise to exploitation.
>    
>    O+? VN ba^y gio+` thi` "co' chu+'c, co' quye^`n" thi` buo^n ba'n
>    co' ddo^.c quye^`n nhu+ng chi ddu? thi` lu'c na`o cu~ng
>    tro+? le^n gia`u co' nhu+ o^ng dda~ no'i "LA^'Y CO^NG LA~M GIA`U".
>>
>>...................DELETE..........
>>>mang, dda.o ddu*'c suy ddo^`i.  Thu*a o^ng Lu*o*ng, to^i kho^ng nghi~ ra<`ng 
>>>chu'ng ta no*~ he` nhau ddu.c khoe't, hu't ma'u da^n chu'ng ba<`ng lo^'i buo^n
>>>ba'n vo*'i vie^.t co^.ng the^m nu*~a sao?.  Co' le~ to^i chu*a hie^?u dda<.ng y'
>>>tha^m cu?a o^ng cha<ng ?  xin o^ng va.ch lo^'i chi? cho Quang lo^.
>>
>>    Nhu+ to^i tra? lo+`i trong ca^u mo^.t.  Ne^'u thu+o+ng ma~i ddu+o+.c
>>ba`nh tru+o+'ng thi` ngu+o+`i da^n se~ :
>>    (1) co' nhie^`u co+ ho^.i co' co+m a(n vie^.c la`m
>>    (2) co' nhie^`u co+ ho^.i la`m thu+o+ng ma~i
>>    (3) i't bi. dde`n e'p
>>
>>    Ve^` va^'n dde^` nha` ca^`m quye^`n VN kho^ng ta.o ddie^`u kie^.n
>>cho da^n VN tu+. do buo^n ba'n.  To^i nghi~ la` nha` ca^`m quye^`n cu~ng ddang
>>co^' ga('ng mo+? cu+?a cho tu+. do buo^n ba'n ho+n lu'c tru+o+'c .  Again,
>>please remember that free-market doest not mean democracy.  They try to
>>have free market and still holding on to their power.
>    Thu+a o^ng LU+O+NG, 
>        O^ng co' tha^'y du+o+`ng nhu+ la` nhu+~ng ngu+o+`i na('m ca'i
>        quye^`n buo^n ba'n o+? VN ba^y gio+` thu+o+`ng la` vo+. cua?
>        nhu+~ng ngu+o+`i co' chu+'c pha^.n, ma` tha(`ng nhu+ to^i
>        cu~ng chi? co' ngu+?a co^? ngu+?ng le^n ddo+.i o+n mu+a
>        mo'c cua? ho.
>
>        Nhu+~ng thi' du. tre^n cho o^ng tha^'y nhu+~ng ngu+o+`i o+?
>        la.i VN la`m "buo^n ba'n la^'y co^ng la`m gia`u".
>        Co`n ba^y gio+` to^i cho o^ng mo^. thi' du. ngay ta.i Cali
>        dde^? o^ng co' the^? ddie^`u tra cho ro~ thu+.c hu+.
>
>        "O^ng Tra^`n Hu+ng Vu+o+.ng, chu? nha^n cua? Travel World
>         dda~ tu+`ng bi. ddo^'t tie^.m khi ba'n ve' ma'y bay, va`
>         to^? chu+'c du li.ch VN ca'ch dda^y 8 na(m ve^` tru+o+'c.
>         (Travel World dda~ to.a lac. o+? go'c ddu+o+`ng Magnolia
>         and Westminster o+? khu Bolsa ta.i Orange County).
>         Khi o^ng Tra^`n Hu+ng Vu+o+.ng ve^` VN, thi` ta.i mo^~i
>         ti?nh o^ng a^'y la^'y mo^.t co^ vo+. be' du+o+'i 20 tuo^?i,
>         khie^'n cho vo+. o^ng a^'y tu+` My~ pha?i ve^` dda'nh nghen
>         la`m loa.n ca? Sa`i Go`n ra. O^ng Tra^`n Hu+ng Vu+o+.ng
>         lu'c la^'y vo+. be' thi` khoa?ng 55 tuo^?i tho^i, cu~ng
>         co`n ca'i tuo^?i "LA^'Y CO^NG LA~M GIA`U" dda^'y o^ng a."
>
>    Co`n o^ng muo^'n tha^'y ky~ thua^.t ca.nh tranh, thi` pha?i
>    ho?i o^ng Luu+ Ho^`ng So+n, thu+o+ng gia VN o+? khu Bolsa ta.i
>    Calfifornia coi o^ng a^'y nhi`n "beauty of competition" nhu+
>    the^' na`o dde^? dda^?y Nguye^~n TU' A ra kho?i VN.
>    (No'i nho? cho o^ng nghe mo^.t chu't la` o^ng Lu+u Ho^`ng
>    So+n bo? tie^`n ra la`m mo^.t cuo^'n video vo+'i tu+.a dde^`
>    "Ngu+o+`i Ti`nh cua? Ba'c Ho^`", dde^? ca tu.ng ba'c HO^`
>    dda^'y.) O^ng co' tha^'y "beauty of competition" o+? VN
>    chu+a, no' kho^ng co' "tha(?ng nhu+ ruo^.t ngu+a." nhu+
>    o^ng nghi~ dda^u, no' co`n dden ho+n ca'i "cho^~ ki'n" cua?
>    dda`n ba` dda^'y o^ng a.
>    Tha`nh ra to^i dde^` nghi. o^ng chi.u kho' su+u ta^`m
>    nhu+~ng ca'i gu+o+ng sa'ng ngo+`i. ru+.c ro+~ "LA^'Y CO^NG
>    LA`M GIA`U" cua/ ngu+o+`i VN o+? trong nu+o+'c dde^? ma` ba('t
>    chu+o+'c.
>    Theo to^i nghi~ cha('c o^ng chu+a ve^` VN dde^? tha^'y "co^ng an",
>    "gia'm ddo^'c" ho. la^'y co^ng la`m gia`u nhu+ the^' na`o,
>    hay la` ddi va`o dda`ng sau dde^? ti`m hie^?u nhu+~ng
>    ca'i "competition" o+? VN.
>    O^ng co' the^?
>    kie^'m o^ng Nguye^~n Tu' A ta.i khu Bolsa dde^? ma` kie^?m
>    chu+'ng nhu+~ng gi` to^i no'i. To^i co' bie^'t la` vi` cu~ng
>    ta^.p "du+.a co^.t ma` nghe" chu+' kho^ng co' ta`i gio?i nhu+
>    o^ng LU+O+NG, ngo^`i mo^.t cho^~ ma` tha^'y "beauty of competion"
>    cu~ng nhu+ "LA^'Y CO^NG LA`M GIA`U"
>
>    To^i ra?nh ro^~i se~ cho o^ng cu~ng nhu+ ca'c netter tha^'y
>    ca'c vi. Gia'm DDo^'c, Ti?nh U?y, ... ho. "LA^'Y CO^NG
>    LA`M GIA`U" nhu+ the^' na`o.
>
>	Chu'c o^ng ma.nh khoe?, a(n nhie^`u cho mau lo+'n dde^? no'i
>	phe't cho  ha(ng.
>
>>
>>
>>Ok , my time is up.  Got to run.  Co' gi` khie^'m khuye^'t thu+'a Hai ti'nh
>>sao
>>
>>
>>Luong Nguyen-Duy
>>..........DELETE..........
>>>[1] To^i nghe ddu*o*.c mo^.t nho'm co' ho.c o*? Ha?i Ngoa.i he` nhau buo^n ba'n 
>>>vo*'i vie^.t co^.ng (tu*` tru*o*'c 1975), ro^`i la.i quay dda^`u vo* ve't co^ng
>>>kho' cu?a nhu*~ng ddo^`ng ba`o ti. na.n, nay la.i chuye^?n nghe^` la`m a<n tu*`
>>>thie^.n, xa~ ho^.i, toan ti'nh mo*? tru*o*`ng DDa.i Ho.c thu*o*ng nghie^.p, ky~
>>>thua^.t cho Vie^.t Co^.ng.
>>>
>>>[2] To^i muo^'n no'i dde^'n mo^.t ngu*o*`i co^ng da^n cu?a nu*o*'c Vie^.t Nam
>>>kho^ng pha?i la` bo.n con o^ng cha'u cha Vie^.t Co^.ng, hay bo.n ca^`m quye^`n 
>>>tho^'i na't
>>>
>>>[3] Chi'nh Quye^`n Hoa Ky` va` ngay ca? chi'nh quye^`n Co^.ng Sa?n Vie^.t Nam
>>>hie^.n nay chu*a chi'nh thu*'c cho phe'p ba^'t cu*' ai co' quan he^. buo^n ba'n.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese