From: ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei)
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:08:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.180624.24863@physics.ucla.edu> viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.154740.27554@linus.mitre.org> ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:
>>In article <01GNYUEVSZCK8ZDW2C@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:

>>>  When you are living in a democratic country, like e.g. US, nobody
>>>would deny you a citizenship just because you cannot speak English.

>>     Sorry, but this is simply incorrect. Part of the naturalization
>>process in the US is a test of English proficency. It's not a
>>particularly difficult test; it's on the level of being able to hold a
>>simple conversation, or read and understand a newspaper article.
>>Without English, you can remain a resident alien, but you *cannot*
>>receive citizenship.

>  Sorry, but what you wrote is incorrect, while I stand for what I
>wrote above. Without English, and even if you are completely mute and
>deaf, you would get US citizenship automatically, if you are born in
>US. That's true about any real democracy, and apparently is not true
>about new-style "democracy" as that of Estonia.

    Please read what I said. I refer to the "naturalization process".
This is the process by which foreigners become US citizens. It has
NOTHING to do with citizenship by birth, which (as you point out) is
automatic in the US. I stand by my statement. 

    Please remember that Estonia is trying to repair the damage done
to its country, people, and culture by a rapacious occupying power
bent on colonization and exploitation.

    People not born in Estonia have no automatic claim on Estonian
citizenship, no matter how long they may have lived there.

    People born in Estonia, whose parents were citizens of the Soviet
imperial power, are in a twilight zone. Some have made an effort to
become assimilated, learning the language and culture. Estonia should
welcome such "internal immigrants" with open arms.

    Others have deliberately isolated themselves from the culture of
the land in which they were born.  As representatives of the occupying
power, they could do this effectively, insisting that the natives
accomodate *them* in language and culture. They are in Estonia as
colonizers, as surely as the British born in India, or the French born
in Algeria. These people are no more Estonian than Fiji Islanders.
They are not rootless - their homeland (and their hearts) lie over the
border to the east. Now that the colonies have been liberated, they
should have no more claim on the rights of citizenship than the
British did in India after independence.

     Distinguishing between these two types is the goal of the
language test.  In their hearts, are these people Estonian, or
are they something else?

>> Nationalism is not a dirty word.
>  Ah, that's something new. What about Nazism ?

    No, it's not new (except to those still indoctrinated by Soviet
propaganda). It's just common sense. Any idea that can make people
reach beyond their personal concerns carries with it the potential for
abuse. The Spanish Inquisition was an abuse of religion.  The Nazis
were an abuse of nationalism. The Soviet Empire was an abuse of
communism (however wrong-headed communism is, it's inventors did not
envisage the kind of totalitarian state Lenin and his gang created in
it's name).

						Peter Trei
						ptrei@mitre.org
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:7637 soc.culture.soviet:7030