HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: greyhelm@cis.ksu.edu (Karl S. Hagen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: General Announcement on the Labor Day blitz
Date: 3 Sep 92 05:15:59 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University, Dept. of Computing and Information Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: cygnus.cis.ksu.edu


      Well I have 16 people in my email box that want to be in on
   this blitz.  No problem.  

        Basic Stuff:    5min Updates first hour - 10 updates there
			after
			FOOD REQUIRED.!!!
			BBN 1.0 Code with Blitz Set-Up (ie. Kansas
			Blitz)
			45 ETU's per update.
			World Size ... tentative    64x128
			40% Land .... with some land in bridging
			distance to make for quick wars
			Bridge Tech   10 or 20  Not sure
			Planes start at 150 tech
			Regular Nukes
			Tech base .75 with log 2
			BIG CHANGE**** 
				Since money is vvery is to come by
			   in most blitz's I have reduced Bank Int.
			   and Civ taxes.
			   Bank Int. is now 5% rather than 25%
			   Civs pay 23.33 rather than 83.33

	    This should make things dicey.... hope you like them
	I may change the civ tax alittle but that is what I am
	shooting at. 


	**** Due to the number of people playing... I have people from
		all over(many time zones.)  I have had the suggest
		made that the blitz start on Sunday NIGHT.  I am
		not really for this ... but I thought it fair to ask.
		I work Sunday evening... 5pm - 9pm CST.  so it would
		probably have to be after that time.

*******************************************************************************
****     Karl S. Hagen          Student - Kansas State University          ****
****     greyhelm@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu      greyhelm@matt.ksu.ksu.edu        ****
****     Moria Archives Manager           Empire Archive Manager           ****
*******************************************************************************
From: duelge@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jason Duelge)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: The Council is Back
Date: 29 Aug 92 04:39:09 GMT
Reply-To: duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

In article <1992Aug28.193401.9396@mixcom.com> Thomas.Retkowski@mixcom.mixcom.com (Thomas.Retkowski) writes:
>Hi folks, good old Tarpan is back.  I am the original person that used the
>nation of Council in the Empire games.  I am looking for a few of the people I
>played against in the Kent St. game last year...
>
>Northpole
>Afrika Korps
>Taliesn  or something like that.
>
>If you guys are out there, drop me a line and let me know the latest in
>Empire,  and if there are any new modifications since last year (July).
>
>-- 
>Thomas.Retkowski@mixcom.com
>DePaul University Graduate Program.
>"Fighting Liberalism at Every Turn."

Well, i normally play Temekula, but i have played NorthPole a couple times.
Nothing like a chance at being Santa, you know...
Anyway, i *vaguely* remember the Kent State game (i've played about 30 games
between now and then), and i really don't remember a damn thing about that
game.  Did i win?  Was i your ally?  Did i kill you?
Help me out.  :)

Jason ... Temekula/NorthPole/R'lyeh ... younger half of Talakula and Temestrond

ps  You know, it wouldn't be a *bad* idea to save all the final posts about
games ... have them compressed at some site.  The living history of empire.
From: ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Land Units should be modifiable.
Date: 4 Sep 92 00:18:19 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Sep3.185322.29395@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kpearce@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (BULLDAWG) writes:
>I agree, if we go to land based units (al la ships) then individual mils
>should be done away with entirely.
>
>Furthermore, perhaps instead of set mil types, perhaps one should assign
>points to each characteristic and let a person specify a unit's characteristics
>limited only by one's tech and money...
>

	A good idea. However, I see 2 flaws with it.

	1) It should really be done at the same time as you do it wil ALL
		the unit types (i.e. ships, planes, etc.) In fact, a complete
		rewrite wouldn't be out of order, merging all the different
		types into 1 unit type with different characteristics. However,
		that's a buncha extra work.

	2) Getting this balanced is likely to be a nightmare.

	All in all, I'd think it should be left for later.

Thomas
From: pgradit@ens-lyon.fr (Pierre Gradit)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Movment after attack
Date: 31 Aug 92 08:42:41 GMT
Reply-To: pgradit@ens-lyon.fr
Organization: Ecole Normale Superieure de Lyon


	If you compare speed of boat and speed of men in an enemy territory it appears 
that speed of men is too small. It's not realistic that a complete army ( 999 mils ) see a diference between an empty case and a case with 1 mil. Or in the Empire Version I've played, the army is stopped by the 1 mil.

	So, I think a rule like this will be better :

	When you make an attack from A to B
		- substract in the mobility of A, what is need for the fight AND ( as much as possible ) m = mil*0.2 
		- Add in the mobility of B  (militair remaining after the clash)*0.2

	0.2 is not perhaps the more realistic, but it represent 1 case of rough so...

	But I don't know the Empire Code too much yet so I can't make the modification my self.
	If you want to discuss about that

|	Pierre Gradit
|	Ecole Normale Superieure de Lyon
|	France
|	
|	pgradit@dmi.ens-lyon.fr
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: duelge@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jason Duelge)
Subject: UPenn ... last Temekulan update...
Keywords: A dark day for the 'Good Guys'
Reply-To: duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge)
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 02:41:21 GMT

  UPenn nears its end.  The forces of Darkness are overwhelming the
bastions of freedom.  In the last few days, beep has suffered at the hands
of Militaria.
  Temekula, regrettably, is retiring without a replacement.  How long
will his country hold off the enemy with no direction?  Any replacement
will be accepted ... just email for the rep.
  Aquitaine hasn't been playing much lately ... how long can his forces
hold out without active leadership?  Is the game already done?
  Can Liliput do it all himself???

  Hats off the Salamis and Liliput ... both are having strong first
internet games.  Never did find out who Sundiver was ... 
Militaria (an ally in the past, confused with Metallica in this game)
continues to push tech and take land...

  Final good-bye to the empire world ... as a player.  I'll continue
to read rge, though, so post game updates (EVERYONE, not just this
game)

Jason ... Temekula

     - = [   Empire Power Report   ] = -
      as of Mon Aug 31 22:18:29 1992

         sects  eff  civ  mil shell gun  pet iron dust food oil  pln ship money
  Salamis 415   93% 268K 8.1K 7.0K 185  6.4K  31K 1.2K 113K 5.0K 280   20  155K
 Temekula 250   97% 204K 8.1K  15K 740  5.5K  40K 300  110K 2.5K 170    7  108K
 Sundiver 260   87% 182K 8.0K 4.2K 350  2.2K  35K 4.1K 104K 2.2K 140   10   45K
Aquitaine 230   94% 175K  11K 3.4K 265  6.0K  20K 4.2K  41K 3.6K 190   20   35K
Militaria 225   85% 163K 4.2K 4.3K 210  4.0K  42K 250   67K 1.4K 180    7   70K
Stuart_Ha 185   99% 140K 5.2K 4.2K 450  2.9K  32K 4.8K 104K 3.4K  90   10   65K
  Liliput 175   93% 152K 6.2K 5.2K 500  7.2K  18K 1.8K  57K 4.2K 170   10   40K
     beep 135   92% 110K 4.9K 7.4K 465   11K  27K 1.1K  32K 2.8K  80   10   20K
          ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
worldwide 2.0K  91% 1.4M  57K  51K 3.2K  45K 246K  18K 631K  26K 1.3K 130  660K
From: kermits@pasifae.cc.uch.gr (Aggelos Keromyths)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Empire FTP site
Date: 4 Sep 92 10:31:18 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Crete HELLAS
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

Announcement  

  A new ftp site for empire now exists in athina.cc.uch.gr. The directory tree
  is the same as at empire.bbn.com. There is also a /pub/Incoming where new
  releases/scripts/docs can be uploaded. However, drop me a mail when you do
  so as to know what should be the location of the uploaded file and (basically)  let me know it's there (i am a quite lazy guy).

Aggelos Keromytis 
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: hjpoell@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl (Henk Poell)
Subject: Re: proposed update alternative
Organization: NIKHEFK
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 10:25:57 GMT

mytelka@codon2 (Daniel Mytelka;612 Barker;x2-5110) writes:

)Henk Poell writes:
)
)>cmd [1:2]  report *
)>
)>Country       Tech      Research     Education    Status    Updates
)>USAland       similar   similar      similar      Active    17:30  19:00
)>Finland       advanced  backward     similar      Active    12:00  15:00
)>etc.

)This proposal will create the worst of both worlds, Henk. If you
)are fighting someone and worried about "around-the-update" attacks,
)you'll have to be logged on both for their updates and for your own.

I am not worried at all about a-t-u attacks, it's part of the thrill of
the game (I am mostly someone taking profit :-). What I don't like, being
European, is having to play at night while my USA or Australian opponent
is just playing at 8pm. My proposal ensures that BOTH enemies have the
same trouble if their update times are far apart, and about no trouble
when they are the same.

)In other words, you're guaranteeing that everyone will have to be logged
)on for twice as many updates, some at very inconvenient times.

Hmmm, that's only while you're in a war. And you will have (unless you're
only attacked, not attacking yourself) the possibility to fight people
with update times you like... Or use your own update to make a first
strike against someone whose update times you don't like. If you're the
victim, you won't miss your own update around which you can make a double
counter attack. Noooooo, it's not that bad!

)								The only
)way I can think of to solve this is to create time zones, where all the
)people who want updates at a particular time are put on a single
)continent. This will lead to boring segregated games for Europeans, though,
)where you will always initially be clustered together.

Correct. (Hi Claus! Let's ally again!)

)Dan Mytelka (mytelka@enzyme.berkeley.edu; Langerhans)

Henk Poell, Vulgaria
From: nlc@vulcan.xtel.co.uk (Neil Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Need for a slowish game!
Keywords: empire
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:18:31 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: X-Tel Services Ltd.

In article <1992Sep3.134112.16935@cc.tut.fi>, remo@cc.tut.fi (Suomi Markus) writes:
|> 
|> Help me, withdrawal symptoms are getting too serious!
|> 
|> Want desperately to play in a game of Empire with 1 upd/day max,
|> no weekend updates and/or play.
|> 
|> There must be a hell of a lot undergraduates who have free time
|> to spend, even if they have far too many courses to attend to.
|> But normal 2-4 upds/day are just too much and really slow games
|> with update every 5-7 days are just too boring. And I'm sure
|> that some player's girlfriends have something to say about weekend
|> updates. So, please, someone organize a game before I do something
|> stupid.
|> 
|> BTW, my friend agrees with me and is suffering also the same symptoms...
|> 
|> 
|> Remo aka The Ruler of Consolidated

I agree. Is there nobody else out there who has nothing better to do at the 
weekend than play empire? I see my girlfriend 100 miles away at the weekend 
and Wales isn't exactly hot on internet connections. 1 update a day, no weekend
updates anybody? 

Actually I might start one myself. Now there's an idea. I'll get my boss
to run a game...

Neil Cook aka Fraidh.
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Subject: Re: Another considered change
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 11:53:37 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center

elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:
> also, for the ruins sector type I had (used '@' easier to see then '_' which
> might be confused with '-') I had the mobility cost be more then wilderness
> (it being harder to move through) and changed the defence and offence to 1/1

The Allied invasion of Italy (WWII) makes me think that ruins should have
a decent defense rating.  We bombed the daylights out of the place, and they
just hid in the ruins.  I do agree with the mobility part.

As to "@" vs "_", we've already got "@" used to show where you;ve laid
your mines, or hit other ones...(bmap remembers..)

Walter Smith
smithw@cs.itc.hp.com / UUCP
From: greyhelm@cis.ksu.edu (Karl S. Hagen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Labor Blitz Game
Date: 31 Aug 1992 22:14:52 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University, Dept. of Computing and Information Sciences
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cygnus.cis.ksu.edu

  Ok folks,  I got 10 people in my mailbox saying they wanted a
  Labor Day blitz. No Problem.  I will do that.

      The stats are not yet set.  But it will probably be
   a Early starter.

       Say   12 Noon ( early for me on a Holiday.)

       Updates every 5 minutes for the first Hour(Get things started)
      Then a down shift to 10 minute updates.

       Probably  45 ETUs

    As to land percentage and # of players... that is still up in the
    air.  Being slightly evil... I am going to make it a food required
    game.  Should make things interesting.  NO Baby Nukes and NO Dr.
    Nuke.

     Any other suggestions welcome.  

		email    greyhelm@cis.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes)
Subject: Re: Euro III update (Week 4)
Keywords: euro, market
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:35:00 GMT


A few words regarding the country of Macedon in Euro III and
opinions on market systems....

Co-run by Ultima and Redline, the leaders made their final
determination that games with new, un-tested, possibly-buggy mods are
not for them and rather than continue such a game and risk further
frustration they decided to cash in their chips and bow out (leaving
a little present for the new market system that caused them to make
their final decision).  The leaders have little doubt as to the
inevitable outcome of the game had it not been for the market bug and
realize they were still the odds- on favorites to win, but chose not
to make their mistake worse by continuing to play a 'buggy' game.

Just so the players not in the Euro III game know, the leaders'
decision had nothing to do with the combined attack of the three
other countries.  The damage was quite minimal and nearly all sectors
would have been easily retaken had it not been for the market problem
leaving them unable to retaliate.  Even after the three countries had
finished their attacks and Macedon had yet to retrieve any of its
sectors, the three countries could only manage to pull Macedon down
to #2 on the power chart (still ahead of all of its agressors).

The time-delay market is a good idea, but it certainly isn't without
some major flaws and loopholes.  For now, it seems that no market is
still the best solution.  Perhaps the concept can be saved and later
incorporated with another idea, but it doesn't seem like any idea
can match the realism and unexploitability of the 'no market' option.
Any ideas are, of course, most welcome....

-Andy (a.k.a. Ultima)

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: melissa@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Melissa C Merrill)
Subject: Re: More Update Stuff... perhaps a "new" idea?
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:23:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.201808.24401@nic.umass.edu> elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:
>what we need is a system by which if a sector is taken, then the
>auto defences will automatically take it back.
>
>
 How would anyone get anywhere:?

 You lose 1 troop taking 1,1
 Enemy lost 1 troop taking 1,1
 You lose 1 troop taking 1,1
 etc etc etc...

 Just curious......
 Caeser M.
From: duelge@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jason Duelge)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: quiters
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:28:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: schaefer.1992Sep3.172837.27786
Reply-To: duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

In article <1992Sep02.171151.6491@mixcom.com> Thomas.Retkowski <Thomas.Retkowski@mixcom.mixcom.com> writes:
>Temukula has quit a number of games that I can remember.  Is this a pattern
>he likes to follow?  Get a country going and hand it over??  He did this at
>a Kent St. game.
>
>** Thomas E. Retkowski              Addr: Thomas.Retkowski@Mixcom.com     **

 At least you could spell the NAME right...
Kent State ... don't remember that one.  :)
Anyway, i have made it amply clear on many occasions that my school
and family come before empire.  At times, this has forced me to quit
playing.  So what?  I have fun while i play, and i'm sure people enjoy\
overrunning my leader-less country.  What exactly is your problem?



Anyway, i think Tom's ideas for land units are GREAT, i've heard
talk about those for a while...  Perhaps they'll be in use in the
Chainsaw (BBN?) code next summer???

All hail The_Scum.  No programming task can daunt him.  :)

Jason

Temekula (not the e, Mr Retkowski.  I'm curious why you didn't
sign with your country name???)
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Update Stuff & Land Units
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:33:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: col.1992Sep3.183340.26757
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center


A few thoughts on UNITS.  

1) I think if implemented, they should *replace* mil,
   not just suppliment them.  

2) If you take a sector with a UNIT, how is the OWNER/OLDOWN
   calculated?  If you have a unit in an enemy sector, does
   that mean you own it, and he becomes oldown?  What if
   you BOTH have units in the sector?  What happens when
   you move out of the sector, do you lose the OWNER flag?
   How about if you are killed out of the sector?

3) Would paratroops have their own planes, or need to
   be loaded onto transports?  If they have their own
   planes, how do you handle moving them by ship?

4) How would you handle UNITS on ships that try to board
   each other?  

5) Can you BUY/SELL units?

6) Could units "pass thru" a sparsely populated foreign
   sector, without capturing it, and not be seen by the
   owner?  (picture an island with 1 civ/sector that
   you want to quietly pass thru, to sneak up on the
   harbor at the far side of the island)

7) Would UNITS contribute to a sector gaining eff?
   If not, how would you go about taking and developing
   new islands?

----------------------------------------------------------

I agree that units are the way to go, but there are a lot
of things to be ironed out before they will really be good.
Any thoughts on these questions, or more questions I've
left off?

Walter Smith / UUCP
smithw@cs.itc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: elvis@netcom.com (kEvin A. Thornbury)
Subject: Re: Land Units should be modifiable.
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 21:36:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

kpearce@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (BULLDAWG) writes:

>I agree, if we go to land based units (al la ships) then individual mils
>should be done away with entirely.

I think individual mil do simulate infantry pretty well - they're slow,
they can do some work, they can be converted to civs and vice versa.

Using the land units as vehicles and cavalry seems like it would work.
If land units were to simulate vehicles, then it would be pretty easy to
include an APC of some type to move mil around. landunits could attack
mil in sectors they went through, but it would still require infantry (normal
mil) to convert and occupy them. This would provide some help for defenders,
who benefit somewhat from having the reaction radius, but still face the
prospect of logging into a country swarming with enemy armor.


If armor could drive through occupied sectors (at some big penalty to movement
cost - say (4 - 3*odds)*normal) but could not convert it without mil,
which would have to fight defenders, then defense would be a bit easier.
Every time armor moved in occupied territory it would be subject to attack
by the defending troops and landunits, which would have an armor defense based
on the defenders tech. (tech zero infantry shouldn't be able to scratch the
paint on M-1's, but the 301st janitorial and supply battalion's laser guided
super howitzer rounds should kill them in droves) I like the supply rules.
Having enemy landunits in your sectors could reduce the work percentage and
sector mobility (by, say the attackers odds counting some of the civs into
the total - ok, he's got a single tank driving around your sector with 999
civs. They'll still get stuff done, but not as much). 

This approach also leads to the new option: ALLYARMOR. You can't put your
mil in allies sectors to help them out vs attacks, nut with this approach,
you could send landunits and let them react to attacks as well, or you could
fight a land war through an ally.

I say put up a test game, and just do it. Test the rules, and see if
they work as proposed. If they're good, keep them. If not change them.


kEvin
sheep
From: adam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Adam Hamilton)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Update Stuff & Land Units
Date: 3 Sep 92 08:34:10 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Sep3.060003.15936@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak) writes:
>
>
>I) Basics
>
>	I plan to have land units, with characteristics of both planes and
>ships. Here's an example unit:
>
	I think the ideas outlined are very promising and I hereby volunteer
for the first test game :-)  Only one point to make; should we (you) then do
away with traditional mil altogether?  (Don't forget to make some of the land
unit capabilities be tech-dependent).
		Adam
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: rusty@groan.Berkeley.EDU (Rusty Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire,rec.games.design,rec.games.misc,rec.games.programmer,rec.games.xtank.play,rec.games.xtank.programmer
Subject: looking for psl BOLO
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:13:02
Organization: University of California Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: groan.berkeley.edu

As part of the Peter S. Langston Unix games distribution, which
included the ever-popular Unix Empire, there was a game called BOLO.
It was sort of a simplified version of xtank that ran on ascii
terminals.  I'm interested in reading the documentation for BOLO
(running the game would be hopeless since Langston only distributed
object modules and it was distributed eons ago).  Does anybody know
if/where the PSL games distribution is available via anonymous ftp, or
if anybody has it on a tape or disk somewhere, could you extract it
and send me the BOLO docs?  Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Available country for Blitz TONIGHT!
From: jbatka@desire.wright.edu
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:47:33 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

Yes!

You too can own your very own country in the Blitz game tonight!  My
WIFE says that I am unavailable so my loss is your gain.

  Don't bother posting...
  Don't bother Emailing...

  It's first come, first served!

  host  131.123.2.174
  port  1618
  coun  Gaultheria
  pass  ragna

It has already been set up for the first update (1700 CST).  Complete with
sector layout and distribution paths.

-- 

   Jim Batka  | Always remember ...                        | Buckaroo
   Modemman   |    No matter where you go, there you are!  |   Bonzai
--------------+--------------------------------------------+--------------
   Ruler of   | Work Email:  BATKAJ@CCMAIL.DAYTON.SAIC.COM | Elvis is
  Gaultheria  | Home Email:  JBATKA@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU      |   DEAD!
--------------+--------------------------------------------+--------------
   Jim Batka  | 64 years is 33,661,440 minutes ... and a   | Beatles:
  The Shadow  | minute is a LONG time [Includes Leap Days]!|   Yellow Submarine