From: rubio@HAN.Paramax.COM (Stuart Rubio)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re:  Authoritarian Parents (was 20/20 and spanking)
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:54:21 GMT
Organization: ^
Originator: rubio@hpwisf1.han.paramax.com

In article <1992Nov16.164048.15233@jetsun.weitek.COM> robert@jetsun.weitek.COM (Robert Plamondon) writes:
>
>Here are some hallmarks of authoritarian parents I have known, which
>may help differentiate them from other kinds:
>
>1. Authoritarian parents take offense if their kids do something
>   successfully, but in a way that differed from their instructions.
>   That is, authoritarian parents discourage and even punish independent
>   thinking, even when it's successful.

As an authoritarian parent who spanks as necessary, I take exception
with the assumption that authoritarian parents recent the accomplishments
of their children. I have always encouraged my kids to think before 
they do anything. This would, first and foremost, keep them from 
making the kind of mistakes that lead them into situations in which
they get spanked. If children thought ahead, and could do this kind
of analytical thinking concerning future results of their actions, 
there would probably be less need to "correct" their actions in the
ways mentioned.

>2. Authoritarian parents will punish children for things that might
>   not even provoke a comment from other people.

This can be true. I know a lot of parents who never punish their kids
in any way, for anything they do. They see nothing wrong in any form
of behavior. Their kids beat on each other and throw toys across the
room, endabgering other children, but they simply make comments on
their activities. So, I can see where an authoritarian parent will
take action when other parents see nothing for which to take action.

>3. Authoritarian parents talk about being "forced" to punish "for the
>   principle of the thing," but can't articulate what principle they're
>   defending.

Well, they might be defending the "right" of an adult to teach a child
to function within the confines of the society in which they live. There
is a responsibility that parents have to their children to enforce a
safe and naturing environment for all living things in that space. 
Children do not always grasp that their actions may be harmful to others.
Children do not always understand that furniture and homehold items may
be damaged and cost something called money to replace when used in an
inappropriate manner. Children sometime just do NOT think about what they
are doing, to themselves, to each other, to the world around them.

>4. Authoritarian parents get more confused and desperate as their children
>   get older and more independent, as their ability to control (or even
>   influence) their children declines.

Some do. I am certain that you would like to bundle all parents that
use spanking into these nice neat pigionholes. Of course, you ignore
the fact that those children are also learning while they are getting
older. Nothing happens in a vacuum. The parents are losing control
because all parents lose control, as their children begin to take
on the roles the society dictates that they should. This is not 
something abnormal or strange. Every generation does it and every 
previous generation tries to slow that process as much as they can.
It is a natural event in the scheme of the world. 

>(I suppose you can see that I have a low opinion of authoritarian parenting!)

I see that you have failed to express yourself well enough to demonstrate
that you have a more open mind than you appear to have in this post.
that is unfortunate. Too many people go around with these models in
their heads that they believe everyone fit into so nicely. Psychology
is filled with them. unfortunately, humans are more diverse than the
models that have been generated. So, the models fail. And, so often,
when that happens, advocates of the models try to convince people that
it is they who are at fault for the failures of those models. They
blame parents for the failure of the school system when it is the 
school system that has changed, not the parents. They blame parents
for the fact that politicians saw a method of increasing the tax-base,
so they forced both parents into the work force. They blame parents
for not being envolved in PTAs, when the NEA has made a concerted 
effort for thirty years to keep parents out of the classroom.

Yes, I can see that you have a low opinion. I can see that you also
have a lot to learn about reality.

Stuart Rubio