From: B645ZAW@UTARLG.UTA.EDU (STEPHEN TICE)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: COUNTER BLITZ:  -= Strike out against Pork-Party-Politics =-
Date: 2 Oct 92 06:15:00 GMT

{ talk.politics.misc, 30 Sep.                                    }
{ Re: COUNTER BLITZ -= Strike out against Pork-Party-Politics =- }

adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes...
|
 
|b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) writes:
|
|>And the greater majority of the people are kept out of the
|>political process through:
|>
|>      o  complex voter registration requirements
|>         (instead of just using state drivers liscence or id's)
|
|Complex?  Illinois registers people to vote at most Driver's facilities,
|all libraries, and has MASSIVE 'register to vote' campaigns at all of the
|local supermarkets.  You have to TRY to avoid registering...

|Face it...registering to vote is easy.  People DON'T WANT TO.

Glad to see you're involved Steve, and that the people of Illinois care
about getting everyone into the process. I'm curious what percent of the
people don't want to register -- in your estimation, and what you think
the reason is?  Texas (which is where I live) now has a very good voter
registration drive as well. We can register by mail, and the forms are
available at libraries and post-offices. We can vote early, starting
the Oct. 14th, this year. I'm reasonably happy with the changes made
for the presidential election, and wish the same push were there for
the local elections.

Too bad everyone in America can't register by mail.

You keyed on some of my points:

|>      o  "representation" by number coded district
|>         (rather than neighborhood, subdivison, or town)
|
|This is not a bad idea, using counties also.  But the problem is still
|equalizing representation, which is required by the Constitution.

and

|>      o  dominant party control of districting
|>         (to exclude minor party or independent access)
|
|This is definately a problem...how could you ever do it non-partisan?
|Don't say computers, cause I can rig that, too...

Ah yes. "...equalizing representation" *between the 2 major parties*.

As an independent, I'm always misrepresented. A *just* method of
equalizing representation is to eliminate party considerations
altogether. This may be why people turn your personal registration
efforts down ...if you're clearly partisan?

Perhaps the best approach is for anybody who takes an oath of office
to lay aside there party affiliation *while in office*, and simply
represent their constituency and America, as best they can.

|>      o  tax subsidies of dominant party campaigns
|>         (also to exclude minor party or independent access)
|
|This has to go.

I wonder if -*anyone*- reading disagrees??

|>      o  elections on work days
|>         (rather than simple mail-in voting)
|
|Simple mail-in voting?  Can you say 'fraud'?  Saturday voting would
|be just fine with me.

Verification is easy, for instance issuing a voter authentication
number, which can be done at anytime. These could be sent out through
the mail like credit cards (or directly given out). And then submitted
with a vote: by mail, at a polling place, or even over the phone.

While keeping anonymity, the numbers could be published later after
the election along with the candidate (or stance) chosen, which can
be checked to see if it's rightly recorded, by the voter. If problems
of fraud arise, they'll show up -- this type of double check is some-
thing we don't have now.

I'm curious how much fraud you think there is in the present system?

|>      o  age restrictions
|>         (rather than direct recognition that every citizen
|>          regardless of their degree of intellectual or material
|>          attainment has a valuable viewpoint to offer)
|
|Wrong.  Society has to establish some minimum level of competancy to
|decide.  We have chosen (arbitraily) 18.  This is the age when most people
|have graduated high-school (or are seniors) and are generally about to
|enter (or have entered) the work force or college.

Gee Dad, thanks for the lecture. ;-)

You've missed my point. People become involved with those things they
grow up with. One of the reasons so many of us don't vote is because
it's something that's put off till 18. My concern is with encouraging
children, and giving them due recognition as citizens -- which they
deserve anyway -- regardless of age. They'll stay involved on their on.

|How would you collect the votes of my 3 year old?  I can easily teach
|him to say 'I vote for Nixon'...

If your child can fill out the ballot (pull the lever, punch the
button) that's fine with me. "The baby vote" won't be more than
a negligible percentage, so why bother restricting it?

And even though a person is 40, they're still "influenced strongly"
by their parents "wishes." So sure, a lot of kids are going to vote
like their parents. Then again a lot are going to vote due to influence
from peers, school, media, church, etc... so what's the difference
between child and adult? Their children voting should give parents 
more incentive as well -- an interesting reversal. Often voting places
are in schools.

Recognizing our children as citizens is an amazing gift, and completely
in accord with our spirit of freedom which extended the vote regardless
of race, sex and ability to pay the poll tax... and to the 18-21 year 
olds, and to the citizens of Washington DC. There is a clear truth we 
are telling ourselves, blazoned across our constitution by amendment:

           **  The vote is a right of citizenship,   **
         ****  & should be completely unrestricted.  ****

As a country, we hurt ourselves whenever we restrict some group
from voting -- in any way. Take for instance convicts. These people
think they're outside of society, and thus it's easier to prey on
others. Restore the vote to them, and it becomes more difficult
for them to feel alienated. Additionally, there are plenty more
"crooks" in society who have never been caught, yet have the vote,
so excluding the convicts accomplishes nothing.

Another instance: Foreign nationals who are US residents. They have
just as much interest (probably more) in what happens in America
but are completely unrepresented. And they pay taxes as well.
Just on the grounds that we want them to identify with our country
and our interests, it's wise to include them in the vote. More
importantly, they *are* here, and in fact are our neighbors --
they deserve a voice. And paying taxes, by itself, should be reason
enough to give them the vote.

(Do you reckon we native born Americans would have more incentive 
to vote knowing that 50% of college graduate-students in the country
are foreign nationals -- who might vote -- given a chance?)

In short, every American RESIDENT should have the unrestricted
right to vote.

|>And lastly, the most damaging [restriction]: dominant media control 
|>of the world view (ie propaganda) by leaving out essential facts, or
|>just plain lies.
|
|There are many media outlets...if you look, you can get the info...

Which is why I know the difference of course. I can't ask people
who are raising families, and working 2 jobs, to spend time in the
Government Documents Repository, or looking up back-issues of journal
articles on microfiche or microfilm, or listening to shortwave radio.

I do expect journalists to do the research, and to be honest.

And I hope to be able eventually to extend such resources to the
general public. The congressional record beats any soap opera or
mystery show by leagues. In fact, I think it beats most comedy
shows -- if you can overlook having your taxes conned from you.

|>I urge you to vote your own mind, (even if that's for the politics-
|>of-pork which buys your vote). I also urge those who would enact
|>real change to participate in a general boycott -- through election
                                  ^^^^^^^
|>day -- by cutting your own spending to just what you need. The cancer
|>of pork-party-politics is the most fragile part of the economy, and
|>can not withstand your withdrawing support.
|
|Boycott what?

Anything considered a luxury or entertainment, and anything that can
be put off till after the election.

If not boycott -- at least have a spending slow-down. Collectively it
will create a rather noticeable "message."

|>The evidence of the cancer of overspending is the new $1.5 Trllion
|>dollar FY'93 Federal Budget [due Oct.1st] which the porkers can't
|>defend. Please, boycott through election day, and on election day
|>take a "sick-day" off -- voting should not be on a work day --
|>the taxpayers must strike.
|
|I usually take a vacation day to stay at the polling place and monitor
|the election judges...

Good point! A few hours is certainly reasonable. I do intend to spend
part of the day "tying-up" the media news lines to make poll reporting
more difficult also. ...Especially those cellular lines.

|   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
|   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558

/                   \     |     /                                  \
   Stephen D. Tice     -- J --     American Independence Movement
   Arlington Texas        |        == Government by the People ==
\                   /     |     \                                  /
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,sci.environment,talk.environment