From: mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Organization: Royal Roads Military College, Victoria, B.C.
Distribution: world,public
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:33:59 GMT


In article <1if3bdINNpjp@shelley.u.washington.edu>, sieferme@stein.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan5.223146.29327@ra.royalroads.ca> mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) writes:
|> >
|> >But we can have eternal life and the knowledge of good and evil.
|> 
|> I already have knowledge of good and evil, but I have never had
|> a clear explanation what xtians mean by "eternal life", other
|> than a circular description of "being with god".  If you are
|> looking for a career in religious salesmanship, try to
|> offer items of value to prospective customers.
|> 
|> >Sure, when God placed the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil in the Garden, HE
|> >knew that the people would partake of it and be condemned to death as well as 
|> >all the generations that followed them.  GOD knew this!  
|> 
|> According to the tale, God not only knew it, he could have stopped
|> it, but chose not to.  The resulting death and suffering is on
|> his hands, or would be if he really existed.
|> 

God chose not to stop us because God gave us free will.  We chose to disobey.
God did not create us to be robots.  He has in mind a much higher purpose for us.

|> >   That is why He provided a plan for salvation through His one and only Son,
|> >Jesus Christ.
|> 
|> Fine.  First, he creates imperfect beings and punishes them
|> for being imperfect.  Then, he arranges to have a Jewish carpenter
|> executed, and claims that this cancels his original error.
|> What a jerk!
|> 

Mankind screwed up!  We are the jerks!  We are the hypocrites.  The Church is
full of hypocrites.  The only difference between the people in the Church and
those outside is that the ones in Church know that they are hypocrites.  That is
what it means to "be with sin" and that is why, all the more, we need redemption.
That is why we need Jesus Christ.  Church is not for the saints, it is for the
sinners.

|> >We are living in the age of grace whereby we may be saved IF we
|> >choose to follow Jesus.
|> 
|> I chose to follow Jesus several years ago, so I guess that 
|> I am saved.  
|> 

I can't speak for your salvation.  I am not your judge nor am I your
executioner.  I am a messenger.

|> >There's nothing more to it than that.  
|> 
|> Before he was hanged, Westley Allen Dodd claimed to have 
|> accepted Jesus as his savior, so we can assume that he
|> will have eternal life.  His young victims, murdered at
|> age 4 or so, never had the chance to accept Jesus,
|> so they probably don't have eternal life.
|> 

Our God is a fair and just God.  He would take in account the circumstances of
those young victims.  As for Westley A Dodd, I can't speak for his salvation.  
It is not my place to do so.


|> >    Maybe I'm being too simplistic.
|> 
|> You are.
|> 
|> >I don't post too often but I am a firm
|> >believer and I just couldn't stand by silent in admidst this debate.
|> 
|> There is no debate.  You are posting the same old tired 
|> xtian drivel in alt.atheist, a serious breach of manners.
|>
The board I'm posting to here is called talk.religion.misc and I am not aware of
it going anywhere else.  Any so doing is unintentional.
 
|> >I don't
|> >mean to flame anyone.
|> 
|> Right.  You're just telling us that we are going to suffer
|> eternal torment if we don't accept your interpretation
|> of an ancient fairy tale.
|> 
Like I said before, I am not judging anyone.  I don't know if you are going to
heaven or not.  What I do know is that if you profess Jesus Christ as your
personal Lord and Saviour that there is guaranteed for you a place in Heaven.  If
you don't believe in Jesus, I don't know what your fate is.  It would be wrong
for me to say.  Truth is, only God knows.


|> >After all, Jesus came into this world to save not to
|> >condemn.
|> 
|> Your NT must be different than mine.  In mine, J and his gang
|> did quite a bit of condemning.
|> 
|> >And in His likeness, I would not do the same.
|> >    I welcome your response.
|> 
|> Somehow I think that you will not like the responses you get ...
|> 
|> -- 
|> ---------------------------------------------------------------
|> Hi!  I'm .Siggy, the National .Sig Foundation poster child.
|> ---------------------------------------------------------------
|> 

I thank you, Eric, for your comments and response.  I do not agree but I am
listening to what you have to say.  I expect there to be adverse responses.  After all, it does say in the Bible that "the hearts of men will grow cold" in
the End Times.  And with each passing day, we draw nearer to that time.

God loves, Man kills. 
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan