HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pacyga@rtsg.mot.com (Jim Pacyga)
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:50:06 GMT

In article <184825@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.020426.11228@EE.Stanford.EDU> sahul@loading-zone.Stanford.EDU (Zakir H. Sahul) writes:
>>How about:
>>
>>Economic reasons:
>>
>>0) The number of cars that the Germans sell here is much smaller (than what the
>>   Japanese sell).
>>
>    That's true TODAY, but back when the "Japanese invasion"
>    started, it certainly wasn't.  And the German car companies made
>    many of the same mistakes the American car companies did...they
>    kept TELLING people what to buy instead of building cars people
>    will buy.
>
>>1) The German market is more open to US goods - they buy our computers, our
>>   software, some auto components etc. etc.  The Japanese market is not as
>>   open.
>>
>    You have obviously never dealt with the Bundespost, NTT, or KDD.
>
>>Other reasons:
>>
>>2) The press has not reported German politicians calling Americans stupid 
>>   and lazy.
>>
>    No, the press often has its own agenda...and likes to blame
>    everybody else for its own problems.  But that doesn't mean the
>    German politicians DON'T say things like that.  Nor
>    unfortunately does it mean that the Japanese politicians making
>    the statement are WRONG......
>
>>3) Racism.
>
>    Yeah, I'd have to say most of the Japan bashing is pure
>    unadulterated racism very poorly cloaked in self-styled
>    patriotism.  
>
>    Now that Jews are indistinguishable from WASPS, and you take
>    your life in your hands 'dissin blacks, you still need somebody
>    ELSE to pick on rather than taking a cold hard look in the
>    mirror.

You may want to invest some of your time in reading the article that was
posted to rec.autos named DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN? PART I and
DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN? PART II.  It provides an interesting
insight to the points you have so whimsically dismissed.  If you take
the time, you can do some quick research of your own that will support the
points in the paper.  If the posts are gone, they are located at ftp site
monu6.cc.monash.edu.au in pub/nihongo.

Jim Pacyga

P.S. I do agree that it is too bad people go to racist extremes to when
discussing this issue.  It is rather a wakeup call to the American public.


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: daveb@Ingres.COM (Dave Brower, DBMS hack, [510] 748-3418)
Subject: Re: Lotus Elan...why did it fail?
Originator: daveb@lotus
In-reply-to: dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Munroe)
Reply-To: daveb@lotus (Dave Brower, DBMS hack, [510] 748-3418)
Organization: Ingres, an ASK Company
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:49:37 GMT

I said:

>If they dropped the price of a Turbo-esprit another 20 to 44k, they
>still might move some units.

In Message-ID: <8206@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> jitloke@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Jit-Loke Lim)
notes:

> I read somewhere that Lotus had a "sale" on Esprit Turbos by dropping the
> price by 20K, not sure if it was 64K to 44k. It was probably 84K down to 64K,
> like you imply.
> Jit

And in article <C0po24.4xw@vcd.hp.com>, dmunroe@vcd (Dave Munroe) writes:
>
>Who was the local dealer that folded - Barber Bros.?  That is sad.  When I
>call them now, all I get is a recording.
>
>
>I'd be surprised if anyone is really paying $90K for one.  I would expect
>"new" 91's and 92's to be selling nearer to $60K.

The price on the Esprit was dropped from 84k to 64k recently, and the
ultra-hot 90k version was discontinued.

IMHO, 64k is still way too much, esp. compared to an RX7, a 300ZX or
even a ZR1.  It's more than an NSX, and cachet only goes so far!

Barber Bros. has indeed folded tent in Walnut Creek.  A sign on the
door says they'll try to re-open sometime in another location, but I'm
not holding my breath.

It was always very depressing to see the seemingly thriving Ferrari
dealer right up the street.

*sigh*

-dB


-- 
Windows/NT - the VMS of the 90s
From: andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: rocks from overpass (was Re: Acura Integra Bodywork. Costs)
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:26:35 GMT
Reply-To: andrew@frip.wv.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix Color Printers, Wilsonville, Oregon

[]

	"some little kid who had nothing better to do and dropped a 10
	pound rock or something off an overpass and hit my hood as I
	was on the freeway. the rock hit my hood, dented it, scratched
	off a lot of paint then hit my fender."

We had a rash of such incidents here in the Portland Oregon area.  If
your rock had dropped a split second later, it might have gone through
your windshield.  We've had people sent to the hospital with destroyed
faces.

  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
                       (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: des@helix.nih.gov (David E. Scheim)
Subject: Security systems: advice?
Organization: NIH
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:33:09 GMT

Now that I bought a new Subaru Legacy wagon and sold my old Honda Civic, I'm 
wondering if there is some anti-theft device available that won't ring an 
alarm every time a nearby squirrel sneezes and would be cost-effective.  My 
apologies if this topic has already been hashed out.

/*********************************************************************/
/*                      --- David E. Scheim ---                      */
/* BITNET: DES@NIHNEI31                                              */
/* INTERNET: desl@helix.nih.gov          PHONE: 301 496-2194         */
/* CompuServe: 73750,3305                  FAX: 301 402-1065         */
/*                                                                   */
/* DISCLAIMER: These comments are offered to share knowledge based   */
/*   upon my personal views.  They do not represent the positions    */
/*   of my employer.                                                 */
/*********************************************************************/
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: thomas@bit.UUCP (Thomas Walter)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Datsun Roadster mailing list - monthly posting
Keywords: Datsun Roadster Great Fun with a Fairlady
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:08:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: bit.547
Organization: BIT, Portland, OR


Monthly posting regarding the DATSUN ROADSTER MAILING LIST.

If you own, or are thinking about buying, a Fairlady, 1600,2000 
Datsun Roadster, join the mailing list! We are a group of Datsun
roadster owners/enthusiast who share technical, restoration,
and ownership information.

To join, or ask, about the mailing list, contact:

		datsun-roadsters-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu
					         ^^ (new as of June 92)
To post to all on the list:

		datsun-roadsters@hoosier.cs.utah.edu
				         ^^ (new as of June 92)

Cheers,

Thomas Walter			Internet:  bit!thomas@cse.ogi.edu
Beaverton, Oregon		(punt it)  thomas%bit@cse.ogi.edu
'67 & '68 2000 owner		(use above address - header address is
				 corrupted).
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: des@helix.nih.gov (David E. Scheim)
Subject: Re: Any opinions on mini-vans?
Organization: NIH
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 14:58:24 GMT

In article <55@aoldev.UUCP> george@aoldev.UUCP (George Browning) writes:

>Due to the impending arrival of my second child I am ready to
>dig into the dull world of mini-vans... (actually my wife is 
>alot readier than I :)  The two that we are leaning towards
>are the Nissan Quest/Mercury Villiager and the Toyota Previa.
>Any opinions that anyone has on these (or other similar vans)
>would be appreciated...

>Thanks
>George Browning
>george@aol.com

The Mitsubishi Expo looks like a great car.  It's actually classified as 
a station wagon, I believe, but has the layout of a small van and comes in a 
7-seat model.  It handles well, gets relatively good gas mileage, and is 
not expensive -- my friends got a '92 last year for $14,000 with several 
extras.  I'm not sure about its safety record.

/*********************************************************************/
/*                      --- David E. Scheim ---                      */
/* BITNET: DES@NIHNEI31                                              */
/* INTERNET: desl@helix.nih.gov          PHONE: 301 496-2194         */
/* CompuServe: 73750,3305                  FAX: 301 402-1065         */
/*                                                                   */
/* DISCLAIMER: These comments are offered to share knowledge based   */
/*   upon my personal views.  They do not represent the positions    */
/*   of my employer.                                                 */
/*********************************************************************/
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: psanders@ll.mit.edu (Pete Sanders)
Subject: Before Buying Japanese
Originator: psanders@ll.mit.edu (Pete Sanders)
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 21:28:08 GMT


>Before buying a new Japanese car please read:
>
>	JAPANYES, (2nd edition)
> 
>monu6.cc.monash.edu.au. The most recent version is in pub/nihongo.
>
>	(ftp site)

	Above is my original posting. I guess practically no one who 
responded read Japanyes because the postings seem to be going in the
wrong direction.

	I have nothing against Japanese cars, I think their world class
(I own a 1972 Datsun 240Z that I love). What I don't like about the 
Japanese is their protectionist way of doing business. Therefore I will
not buy Japanese anything unless I have no other choice. I would ask that
before people respond to this posting they actually read Japanyes. If some
people don't have FTP access, mail me a message and I will mail you a copy
back.

	Thanks

	psanders@ll.mit.edu
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: AudiWatch Update (Tm) #8
Date: 7 Jan 1993 01:33:38 GMT
Organization: clearer than blir
NNTP-Posting-Host: stalfos.engr.washington.edu


>|> Toyota has been making four valve engines for their Corollas for
>|> YEARS before Volkswagen decided to get a brain fart of their own
>|> and make a four valve. 

>I guess I would like to hear what models and years of Corolla you
>are talking about that came "years" before VW even thought of it?
>Seems to me that the FX16 came after the Scirocco 16V.

toyota, back in the early 1980's owned a percentage of lotus, who had
four valve heads all over the place.  it was during this time that
toyota 4 valve heads started appearing.  i read somewhere that a lot
of lotus expertise was used, but i don't remember the source.  the
16 valve corolla was available before the 16 valve scirocco, but i don't
know exactly when they started importing these into the u.s.  i test drove
a corolla 16v in asia sometime in 82 or 83.  

it is amusing to note that during this time honda was a keen advocate
of the 3 valve head, designed mostly with good emissions in mind, but
then found out quickly that the number crazy public only cared who had
more valves regardless of whether it was better or not.  they finally
succumbed.  the motivation behind 4 valve heads used in the corolla
and camry is for good emissions performance rather than hot rod
performance.  that is a far less well known advantage of 4 valve
heads.


eliot
From: leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence LEONG)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:02:32 GMT
Subject: Re: Tires of the Integra
Organization: HP Singapore
Newsgroups: rec.autos

In rec.autos, ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter) writes:

| >>>>> On Thu, 7 Jan 1993 11:32:01 GMT, leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence LEONG) said:
|
|  Dunlop D40M2
|
| leonglaw> D40M2's are in 40% aspect ratio (correct me if I'm wrong).
| leonglaw> If you fit this, you'll either have FAT tires or have to
| leonglaw> change rims.  The D60M2 may be the one.  Don't take the
| leonglaw> D60A2 tho'.
|
| I have the D60M2's on my 89 LS. Drove like a totally diffent car after
| those damn MVX's. I don't know what possessed Acura to put those tires
| on there cars.

Cost?  Engineering genius?  Other sinister, nefarious reasons? :-)
Lawrence

|
|
| --
|  Scott Streeter                             Visit the Star Wars Archive at
|  ss@wpi.wpi.edu                             wpi.wpi.edu       130.215.24.1
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rll@frieda.mitre.org (Roberto L. Landrau)
Subject: Re: How About that Ford!
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:15:09 GMT


In article <1993Jan6.234804.18541@pentagon-gw.army.mil> grant@pentagon-gw.army.mil (Pete Grant) writes:
>>>The news is out and official:  Ford Taurus is the best selling
>>>car in the United States, beating out Honda Accord that has

In article <1993Jan8.125026.16258@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jmh@Turing.ORG (Jeffrey M. Hoffmeister) writes:
>>Not so fast, according to Automobile Magazine.
>>The 10 best selling cars for the '92 model year are:
>>
>>Honda Accord                           387,881
>>Ford Taurus                            347,534

aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic) wrote:

>1992 model year sales and sales within the year 1992 are two different stats.
>
>Also, I find it interesting that they could come up with final stats for
>the '92 mdoel year, as I still see some '92 Tauri on the lots.

Does anyone have statistics on the Mercury Sable?  It seems to me
that, since they are the same car, the numbers should be added.

--
The opinions stated above are not necessarily my employer's.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Roberto L. Landrau    KC1YP    landrau@mitre.org  rll@linus.mitre.org
The MITRE Corporation  Bedford, MA 01730          rll@linus.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kong@leland.Stanford.EDU (Kong Kritayakirana)
Subject: Where to get the body work done?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 00:12:07 GMT

Hi Netters:

I'm in trouble. I bought a used 87 accord HB LXi for $6000. Now I just had
an accident. A body shop called "Cavalino" in Palo Alto quoted me $2500 on
the repair. The front hood just got bent and the radiator leaked. Is this
a reasonable price? Is there any other bodywork store in this area I should
contact? I live on Stanford University campus. Any help will be really really
appreciated. Please email reply.

Kong Kritayakirana (kong@leland.stanford.edu or kong@nova.stanford.edu)

Thanks in advance!
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock Brakes makes stopping SAFER?
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:17:18 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <C0D8GM.BBB@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real 
Life?!?! HA!!) writes:
> No, ABS does not affect the handbrake.  ABS modulates line pressure in the
> hydraulic service brake system, while the handbrake uses a mechanical cable
> which is regulated only by the handbrake lever/parking brake pedal.  So on
> an ABS-equipped car, the rear can be made to skid using the handbrake.


Anyone know how the handbrake is actuated on a four wheel disk brake 
system?  Is it the same as with drum brakes?


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com or 74616.2237@compuserve.com
SHO  GOZE
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kiisaka@csi.uottawa.ca (Ken Iisaka (the mad pianist))
Subject: Re: Why is US engine technology so retrograde?
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 16:40:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.093339.4524@leland.Stanford.EDU> tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>In article <184857@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>
>now if you wanted to talk about biggest engine in a passenger sedan,
>mercedes would win with its 6 liter V-12.

What about the Rolls-Royce/Bentley 6.7L V-8?

-- 
Ken Iisaka
kiisaka@csi.uottawa.ca                     <Space for rent>
AI Lab, University of Ottawa                       <Espace a louer>
H: +1 613 237 6642  W: 564 8155
From: aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Dealer Prep Ought to be Road Kill!
Summary: The McLaughing Group
Date: 12 Jan 93 03:57:22 GMT
Organization: Helen Keller Bondurant's Performance Driving School for the Blind

In article <C0K07t.DDz@ssesco.com> nau@ssesco.com (William Nau) writes:

"ISSUE NUMBER ONE: Advertising Fees and Dealer Prep: cost of doing business,
 or blatant sham and scam?" 
 William Nau?"

>Dealer Inspection, Dealer Prep, Advertising, and Delivery Charge are all
>part of the the dealers profit.  If he expects to be paid for it, it should
>be included in his profit.  

"WRONG!"  

Look, people.  Delivery charges and national advertising fees are a COST OF
GOODS SOLD.  So are prep charges if the dealer uses an outside prep center
(although there may be some markup on prep; it varies).  These are separate
line-items that are paid for outside of the invoice cost of the car & options
themselves.  You can argue all you want that the dealer should pay for it out
of his/her markup, which you probably CAN if you are paying MSRP.  But if
you're being a smart buyer and researching invoice prices, don't kid yourself
into thinking that you can offer $100 over invoice or whatever and expect the
dealer to *also* pick up the other costs and still make enough money for
the sale to be worth his time.  If you're taking something off the lot that he
may have trouble moving otherwise, that's one thing; he may be willing to take
a minor loss on such a car.  Otherwise, don't get pissed if he tells you to 
walk.  If you want to get an ACCURATE estimate of dealer's cost for a given 
car, you need to ALSO factor in the extra cost he pays for national 
advertising, delivery, or whatever.

>In normal transactions, we give the seller a profit.  Why?  Because of the
>services he provides.  For some reason, car dealers think we should pay for
>the services AND still give them profit.  They are not two seperate things.
>William R. Nau

So, in other words, you expect car dealerships to be non-profit operations?
If you believe in this, *you* open a dealership, and I'm sure the whole
net will beat a path to your door.


--
Alan Denney      aland@informix.com      {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland

  "Don't try to out-weird me, pal; I get stranger things than you
   free with my breakfast cereal."               -- Z. Beeblebrox
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: des@helix.nih.gov (David E. Scheim)
Subject: Seek hints on negotiating for '92 or '93 Suburu Legacy
Organization: NIH
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:51:39 GMT

After considering my desire for a small wagon with reasonably good ground 
clearance and a generally well-rated car, the Suburu Legacy appears to be 
the best choice (the Loyale is not as well rated and is being discontinued, 
although it has slightly more ground clearance).  I've seen a figure of 
$13,330 dealer invoice price for a '92 L plus wagon, plus $445 destination 
charges and $726 for airbag, for a total of $14,500.  The dealer's starting 
price was $14,900 but came down to $14,000 when we asked what we could get 
if we paid cash.  I've seen that there was a big rebate for '92s but it 
expired on January 4th.  Unfortunately, I was told there aren't any 4wd 
vehicles around, only 2wd, for which the above prices apply.

Is $14,000 a good price, or should I try for lower?  Does anyone have any 
information concerning reliability or quality of the car -- consumers rates 
it good.  Thanks in advance for any comments.   

/*********************************************************************/
/*                      --- David E. Scheim ---                      */
/* BITNET: DES@NIHNEI31                                              */
/* INTERNET: desl@helix.nih.gov          PHONE: 301 496-2194         */
/* CompuServe: 73750,3305                  FAX: 301 402-1065         */
/*                                                                   */
/* DISCLAIMER: These comments are offered to share knowledge based   */
/*   upon my personal views.  They do not represent the positions    */
/*   of my employer.                                                 */
/*********************************************************************/
From: hacker@cco.caltech.edu (Jonathan Bruce Hacker)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock Brakes makes stopping SAFER?
Date: 5 Jan 1993 18:34:58 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:


>Anyone know how the handbrake is actuated on a four wheel disk brake 
>system?  Is it the same as with drum brakes?

There are two common systems:

1) Equip the caliper with a mechanical rod that can be used to physically
push the caliper piston out against the disk.  The method is complicated
by the fact that you need to compensate the rod length for pad wear, so
the rod is usually threaded and attached to a wear compenstion gizmo.  

This method is common because it is cheap, but it makes changing the pads
and working on the brakes in general a pain.  From the manufacturers point
of view it is good because it is simple, light, and cheap.

2) Add an additional drum brake at the rear wheels that is used only for
the parking brakes.  Because these drums don't need to dissipate much 
heat they can be quite small.  Most often the drum and disk are cast as
one piece.  The nice thing about this method is that the parking brake
almost never goes out of adjustment since there is no wear unless you 
routinely apply the parking brake with the car moving, and servicing
the pads and rear calipers is as easy as the fronts. The disadvantage
is that it is more expensive and adds a bit of weight.

Most Mercedes and also the Toyota Supra have this system.  I'm sure
there are others as well.


-- 
Jon Hacker
Caltech, Pasadena CA
hacker@tumbler-ridge.caltech.edu
Organization: Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:43:39 -0500 
From: "Joseph C. Lappa" <jl8p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Acura Legend LS Coupe '91 purchase


Hello,

   I'm thinking of buying a '91 Acura Legend LS Coupe but like some
input from other owners of this car as to maintence, etc.

Thanks!
Joseph Lappa
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rdu@iastate.edu (Runqing Du)
Subject: warm up a car in winter again: anyone can tell me where i can read something regarding this? my wife is stubborn!!! (women!!!!!!)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:34:11 GMT

I need something solid to change my wife's mind from warming up our car too long. Could someone please tell me where i can find some written proof that excessive idling is harmfull to the car and you can warm up your car by driving mildly at the beginning. It's hard to change a person's mind if this person happens to be your wife and a believer of first learning!!!!!!!!
From: hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Ed Bradley on Larry King show
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:11:44 GMT
Organization: Chevron


 Did anyone catch Ed Bradley on the Larry King show on CNN the other night?

 A caller mentioned 60 MINUTES "wrongful" conclusion on the Audi and its
 "sudden acceleration" theory.  Ed restated that they (60 MINUTES) stands
 by its story that the Audi is a dangerous car and that "all those people"
 couldn't have mistaken the gas pedal for the brake pedal.  He said that 
 included a policeman and a brake inspection attendant.  

 I guess if you stick to a lie often enough people will take it as the truth.

 BTW, somethinh like this happened just last month at a local mall.  The
 lady swears she was "standing" on the brake but the car just kept going
 faster until she rammed into a gas meter next to a resturaunt and set
 everything on fire.  But the car was a Honda, this time.
 
 TRAVIS
Newsgroups: rec.autos