HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Re: Korean product boycott in Taiwan
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 20:55:48 GMT

I wrote:
>I am curious how well the boycott of Korean product is working in Taiwan
>these days.  As I recall, there has been several reports on cancellation of
>trip to Korea, no customers in Korean car dealers, etc.
>From what I observed in Korea (usually against Japanese products), such
>emotion based boycott NEVER works.

In article <1992Dec24.201141.7052@cs.brown.edu> wcn@cs.brown.edu (Wen-Chun Ni) writes:
>Hey Hey Hey. Are Korean products supposed to be the same quality as
>Japanese ones? I don't think so. Boycotting Korean products is *much*
>easier than boycotting Japanese products. Period.

You did not answer my question.  My questio had nothing to do with the
quality of the product.  My question was: "is the boycott working?"  If so,
is it just effective as the way it was right after the diplomatic event?

Was there a similar boycott with Japan as well over the similar diplomatic
event?  Your posting make me believe that the boycott against Japanese
products failed for a good reason.  Is my impression correct?

One other question.  Is the effectiveness boycott in Taiwan only dependent
on the quality of the product in question?  Or is it dependent on the event
that triggered it?

>Wen-Chun Ni, wcn@cs.brown.edu         (401) 863-7669

James Choi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tcg1014@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Skywalker )
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:17:32 GMT

cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:

>Then the real threat from CCP and those stupid pro-uni KMTers is that they 
>tried every means to threaten Taiwanese not to be independent, while they 
>never say what will happen if CCP comes.  (Even more blood.)

	No comments, no one konws the answer, and no garentee to any
	answer ! Neither can the TIer garrenty the out come of TI.

>Taiwanese will choose a right thing to do no matter how hard it could be
>and will never do something bad no matter how easy it can be done.

	Agree with that !

>Surrender only needs to bend your knees, but to fight takes all your
>strength. 
>Taiwanese want to build their own great country no matter how hard
>it would be, while many others just want to surrender and being ruled by
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>other people, yet they are yelling to those brave people 'surrender quickly 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>and you will become a slave easily and never need to worry about your
>future because your master will do that for you'.
	
	Surrender to whom ? CCP, KMT, DPP, U.S.A. Japan
	.... ? Sounds like Taiwan IS *now* ruled by someone 
	without the free will of Taiwan Residences ???

>I want TI, because I'm a brave man and have confidence that I can build a
>new great country out of my own hand. Taiwanese not only want to be
>independent, we also want to beat Chinese in every way, that's why we want
>to be independent, because we want to be better not worse.

	You don't consider youself a chinese, that's fine, 
	  it`s your free will. But the thought about beating
	someone in every way is so UNFRIENDLY ...

	Indenpendent ?? I thought Taiwan is A indenpendent
	nation already ???

>Yi-Chieh

	No flams please. This is nothing personal, just cureous
	about how do you know about today's Taiwan, your view about
	Taiwan seems different ....


Today
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:32:27 GMT

In article <BzqIC5.1wA3@austin.ibm.com> tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee) writes:

>Yes, I did. And, I did know many Chinese were slaughtered by Taiwanese mobs 
>during 228. And, TI terrorrists are indeed violent criminals based on their 
>acts. Why don't I see the Taiwanese being accused of such violent crimes?
>Sigh. ROC government is so wimpy to let go of these mobs. Well, that's
>another story.

So we should just slaughter those "mobs."  I am sure that the Israeli
occupation force in West Bank (of Jordan) would love to have you as a
consultant.

>>Are you telling me that those Taiwanese deserved to be killed and KMT
>>had all rights to execute in "228" and 50's/60's?
>>
>
>See my first paragraph. In fifties and sixties, CNP government performed
>its proper responsibility to prosecute seditionaries, spies, secessionists
>to stabilize the social order (according the CNP propaganda) including
>not only the so-called Taiwanese but a lot of Chinese. That's not my
>opinion, in case you are humor-impaired.

But does that make it any more justifiable?  The Bo Yang case, for example,
involved a WSR who happened to criticize the government (not very severely,
to be sure), and Bo was accused to be a communist spy despite the lack of
evidence, and was almost executed.

>Yes, it is very strong. And, the people killed were let believe they
>were martyrs, and were used to blackmail the CNP government.

Hmmm...  I assume, then, that you would think that the Bosnians who are being
killed are let believe that they are martyrs, and were used to blackmail the
Yugoslav government.

>Doesn't the election outcome show your number of estimate is wrong.
>The situation is temporary. People will and shall select a true suitable
>candidate to the public office after the heat goes down. The good candidate 
>is the one who proposes
>the welfare of the public, think of the future of Taiwan. The bad candidate
>is one who favor fanatic movement, blackmail the government, exploit social
>disorder to achieve political ambition. 

True, but the fact that the candidates were elected show that they were
*not* ones who favor fanatic movement, but favor a peaceful transition to
independence.  Again, during the last election (for National Assembly), I
don't think I can say this is true (and, as a result, the DPP failed
*miserably*), but it is more likely the case this time.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: siflash@solomon.technet.sg (Singapore International Foundation)
Subject: SINGAPORE undergrads seek TAIWAN job
Summary: Job situation in Taipei? 
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:47:54 GMT

Hello,  a few friends of mine from different disciplines at the National
University of Singapore are looking for Vacation (March-July) jobs in
Taipei. Most of us are bilingual (Mandarin & English)

Could you furnish us with some information on 
1 The cost of a basic room or how we can best live cheap for at least three
months
2 What is the best way of looking for a job? The papers (which one?)
knocking on doors? Are there some job centres? Are there certain types of
 jobs which require seasonal
workers and pays reasonably well. All we want is to experience live in
Taiwan and perhaps pay our own way through it. 
Is there any thing we should know, are there books which may be helpful.
Your help would be much appreciated, Tan Pin Pin
e-mail:siflash@solomon.technet.s
From: wwang@iastate.edu (Wen-Ping Wang)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:06:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.000001.29060@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
> ..............
>
>1. Why some TIers think we have to deny our Chinese (or Wah-Ren) identity 
>in order to support TI. Why a new nation (if necessary) can not be built 
>with Chinese/Taiwanese identity? Is there anything wrong with our Chinese 
>identity? Where did our ancestors come from?
>

Should someone from the TI camp compile a FAQ( frequently asked
questions ) on these related issues and inject it into SCT once a
while? :-)

Basically I think no TIer will deny their Han identity. They simply
deny they are Chinese *politically* (yes, that's the reason they are
pro-TI :-) ). It is like you speak English but you don't have to be 
English. 

W.P. Wang
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 15:03:06 GMT

In article <C07q4o.DEA@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>The notion of Taiwan is a independent nation is rejected. Please do not repeat
>anything That had be said by TIers here.
> couple of quick points because I have to rush for something else:

First of all, I'm not a TIer. Secondly, I feel I was talking to a cow.

The point is not whether Taiwan is recognized as an independent nation
or not. The point is Taiwanese people's decision about their own future
should be respected.

Go hurry for your rush business. My vacation is almost over. Now that
we can't communicate, I have things to do too.

-- Chien-Chung Chen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: mtl@cs.brown.edu 
Subject: Re: CRN Polls
Keywords: Rumor, Polls
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:37:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.223601.7876@cs.brown.edu>, yjl@cs.brown.edu (Yi-Jing Lin) writes:
|>       	       	     	      1992 CRN Polls
|> ___ 3. What kind of relationship should be kept between
|>        <soc.culture.taiwan> (sct) and <soc.culture.china> (scc)?
|> 
|>       (A) One China: sct should be merged into scc;
|>       (B) Independence: No cross-posting allowed;
|>       (C) Confederation: All articles should be cross-posted;
|>       (D) One China = ROC: All articles in sct should be cross-posted to scc;
|>       (E) One country, two systems: All articles in scc should be
|>       	  cross-posted to sct;
|>       (F) One China, one Taiwan: Articles are posted separately, but
|>       	  some day in the future they will be sent to the other group.
|> 


	This gives me a splendid idea of dividing this news group!

	Due to all the flammings in this news group, we can divide soc.culture.taiwan
	into the following groups to avoid conflict.
	You can subscribe to the one based on your political belief:


	1. "One China" supporters:
		Please subscribe to soc.culture.china

	2. "TI" supporters:
		Please subscribe to soc.culture.taiwan

	3. For those who still believe that ROC represents entire China and
	   Mongolia is part of ROC:
	 	Subscribe to soc.culture.roc

	4. For netters who love sports:
		Subscribe to soc.culture.chinese-taipei

	5. For netters who care more about the economy of Taiwan:
		Subscribe to soc.culture.tpkm


		tpkm means Taiwan, Peng-hu, Kinmen, Ma-chu. This is the name
		Taiwan uses in GATT.


		
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Is TI so rossy?
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 02:15:43 GMT

In article <V-c=hsA@engin.umich.edu> echang@engin.umich.edu writes:
>
>In article <C0AJ4q.3qr@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>
>Reading your articles is like reading stories written by someone from the Mars. Furthermore, it seems to me that Martians are going to conquer the Earth!
>
Just want to wake somebody up, want conquer nobody, too much mess.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:34:11 GMT

In article <-va=BR@engin.umich.edu> echang@engin.umich.edu writes:

>	Your arguments is incomplete in the sense that you didn't mention 
>what will happen if China wants to send its governor to Taiwan?   Your 

Well, what will happen if Taiwan declares independence, and China sends a
governor (armed with military forces) to Taiwan?  TI does not solve this
problem.

>prediction that China will become semi democratic  in 10 years seems too
>optimistic to be accetable.  Even if that is true, by then Taiwan's democracy

That is what they said ten years ago, that Mikhail Gorbachev won't democratize
the Soviet Union one bit.  (Actually, it's less than ten years ago.  Gorbachev
got his power in 1985.)

>Shouldn't we prepare ourselves to the unpredictable? Shouldn't Taiwan look for
>various options and select one that fits better given a particular situation?

Does TI solve those problems?  I don't think so.  A declaration of independence
will not just magically dissolve the territorial claims that Beijing has, and
won't magically cause the other countries to stop recognizing those claims.
>
>TI doesn't mean we won't help China; TI means we want to protect ourselves
>from the bloody hand of Communists.  We should prepare ourselves for TI and use
>it as our support to tell CCP if it wants to force us to unify, the trend 
>toward TI will accelerate, because we prepare for it and we mean it.
>If we don't prepare for it, we don't have the option for TI.  What we can do
>is pray that China will become a more democratic state and accept the 
>fate when CCP put its knife on our throats.

Again, do TI solve those problems?  If China democratize, then those threats
won't be there, but then, what then becomes so bad about unification?

If China does *not* democratize, then TI doesn't really help either, because
the communist government will not recognize Taiwanese independence.
>
>TI is a very feasible option that Taiwan should have.  If you are confident
>about our level of democracy, you should support to put TI into our national
>agenda. (I'm not asking you to support TI, but to support the right of TI
>to compete with unification.)

This I do support, and support greatly.

>The more options we have, the more adaptive
>Taiwan will be able to adjust itself in the changing world.  Put all the
>possible options in front of people of Taiwan, and let the wisdom of
>people of Taiwan decide what they want to do.

However, this doesn't mean that TI is a panacea.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 10:04:32 GMT

In article <2B358C86.19500@news.service.uci.edu> tao@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Eric Yihching Tao) writes:
>In article <BzLFvo.B4A@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>>
>If people for Taiwan choose to TI, it is the responsibility of the people. That
>is the way democracy works. KMT of course can talk to CCP, but if the people 
>are not behind KMT, what is point of talking? KMT can not use force against 
>people any more. CCP probably can do it now, but not for long!
People are giving too much credit for "Democracy". It is not an ideal world
, any weakening effect on China is a lose for Chinese and a gain for somebody
in this world who wants Chinese down. If you are sensitive enough and monitor some
westen media long enough, you will see "democracy" rhetoric is only a 
camouflag for them. It is the same thing as hundred years ago , 
"christianization" by the West. That the government has more, drect, immediate 
accountability is always wanted. But when you talk about "demo", which one?
Can I declare my apartment to be independent, my county, my province, if I want
to? It is a relative concept. 
>
>Eric
> 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:54:28 GMT
Organization: IBM, Austin

In article <1992Dec22.200545.29506@cbnews.cb.att.com> liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes:
>
>That's what I said you are kind of slow. People in Taiwan are looking
>forward to the future. Instead, you are looking into the past.
>

Ahem, Hottentot would be the word I would suggest to describe you.
We are not talking about quantum leap which will sever the present and future
from the past by a push of a button.

>Second, didn't Dr. Sun did the same "terrible" things in the past?
>To me, those acts are understandable and not so evil. Just try to
>understand the reason behind those.
>

What a joke! TIers want to be treated equally with what Sun did.
To me, those terrors (by TIers, of course) involved many people's lives,
families, and friends, how could you say it so lightly? Do you have any
human lineage in your body? Just let me understand your mentality
behind this. You speak like a CNP spy, don't you?

>
>Fine with me. But "well-defined", and "cheap, superficial" is arguable.
>Instead, I prefer a dynamic balancing to our society.
>

Please explain your arguement.

> .....
>I would recommend you also say goodbye to those "bad old days."
>

Please see my first paragraph for response. Rhetoric doesn't help the
discussion. I would suggest you bravely dig out the past terrors did
by the TI terrorists. That will prevent you from being small-minded and
please no re-run of the CNP terrors. We all know too well about it,
what we lack of knowledge is the terrors by TI.

>Heng-Hsin
>

-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ty Lee                                                                    */
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: kao@cae.wisc.edu (Chengheng Kao)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison
Date: 21 Dec 92 11:00:25 CST
Originator: kao@sun-29.cae.wisc.edu


The DDP didn't win the election, since they were far from getting the majority
vote. Also, judging from so many independents got elected, it is clear that
some percentage of non-KMT vorters are feed up with the DDP.


The KMT clearly didn't win the either. ( if they didn't lose)


Who won the election?


The people in Taiwan won the election !!!!!!


They were no large violent incedent after the vote are counted despite there
are so many close calls. This does not means certain losers do not want 
to creat some incidents. This means the voters are getting mature.



Buy the way, does anyone out there know how many of these "golden bull or cow"
got elected. I hope not too many.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:44:42 GMT


In article <NtZ=8D=@engin.umich.edu>, changhp@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang) writes...
> 
>The answers to these questions are the long-term plans that our government
>should have in order to meet the challenge of the changing world.   
>The answers are also the key to eliminate the growing hostility between
>the Pro-unification groups and Pro-TI groups, because if the public has
>answers to these questions, the goal is OUR idea not a particular groups'.
>Taiwan needs to progress; different ideas won't slow her down, but
>hostility certainly will.

I agree. We should learn to tolerate different ideas. The growing hostility
will only hurt us. I hope two sides can open the dialog and iron out the 
difference, ie, be ready to compromise.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 07:12:40 GMT

In article <C07oIJ.Hz4@acsu.buffalo.edu> v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:

>Judged from your postings in both soc.culture.china & soc.culture.taiwan, you
>are a Marxist, Leninist and communist. Your body might be Chinese as those of 
>people in Taiwan but your mind is a hybrid of German Jew and Russian. How can
>you say the war between your comrades( don't tell me it is the Chinese people
>, it is a lie and you know it ) and Taiwanese is a war between East and West?
>Is communism closer to Chinese culture than captalism?

Worse, he's not a Leninist.  If he had been a Leninist, he would have known
that Lenin did not advocate just going around and invading everyone who
doesn't want to be ruled by you, as can be seen from the fact that the
Soviets, during Lenin's lifetime, didn't go invade the Baltic States, Poland,
or Finland (all of those invasions were done during Stalin's reign).

Of course, if Lenin had been able to establish an ideal government, perhaps
those countries (which broke apart from the old Russian empire after World
War I) would have wanted to rejoin Soviet Russia.  And of course, if Beijing
can reform itself so that it becomes a democratic, efficient, and humane
regime, perhaps the people of Taiwan would want to rejoin with it.

But what Mr. Shi is advocating is not this; he, instead, threatens the
Taiwanese with invasion if Taiwan should even *think* about breaking away.
If his attitude is typical of the officials in Beijing, then, this represents
an attitude not of a father improving oneself so that a son who had run away
due to abuse at home would want to return to his home, but rather of a father
who, in the above case, taking a gun to cut down the son, and then carrying
his bloody corpse back home.

Thank you, Chunde.  Milosevic loves you.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:34:38 GMT

In article <BzMvAw.E2y@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:

>You are not going to get TI. We not only do not give dawm about you TIers, 
>also your foreign master on the Taiwan issue.
>Jiang Zhe Ming warned if TI, china will take "resolute measure."(Duan4 Ran2
>Chuo4 Si1).
>I was even supurised by the phrases used. You may be Chinese enough to know to
>meaning of the wording.

I think China should be unified.

However, it is people like you that are making the Taiwanese not want to be
re-united with China.  You are dictating what they should do, what they should
think, what they should vote.

You sound very much like the Soviet junta who tried to end the democratic
reforms.  And you might very well suffer the same fate.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan