HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Evan Torrie <torrie@cs.stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Organization: Stanford University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
     <1992Aug30.203431.13831@ra.msstate.edu>
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 01:46:42 GMT



In article <1992Aug30.203431.13831@ra.msstate.edu> Skip Sauls,
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu writes:

>>   Yes, but they also will not be able to use anybody's (not even 
>>Commodore's) SCSI tape bacup system, or SCSI CD-ROM drive.  Will there
be an
>>IDE connector on the outside of the case?  Doubtful, as IDE cannot
handle
>>more than two devices in any way, and even supporting the second device 
>>would be kludgy.  
>
>Duh, can you say third-party Zorro III SCSI boards?  I've got an A3000
with
>its wonderful 32bit DMA SCSI blah blah blah, but only one drive.  If it 
>means that the price of the A4000 will be more reasonable, more power to
>them.

  How much does a SCSI DMA device, vs an IDE DMA device really add
to the price of a machine though?  Wasn't there someone who posted
here about 6 months ago who claimed that it was at most only $50.
  In a $1500-2000 machine, is this a significant factor?
  If CD-ROM really takes off, leaving out SCSI may prove to be
a mistake (unless they start making IDE CD-ROM drives?  Do they?)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition      Break away from the past
Evan Torrie             Stanford University     torrie@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young)
Subject: Commodore meltdown?! 
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 07:43:29 GMT


Big NEWSFLASH over week said Commodore went into MELTDOWN and
is pushing back NEW Amiga intro many months!! C= MUST send new
letter to P. Robinson and say we are NOT BILLION dollor company
anymore!!

C64 sales fell into BLACKHOLE and now is about 2000 every month!
R&D cut 10% more so only A600 and A3000T/40 selling this year
and developers will not get vAApor chip Amigas until next 1993!!

People mailed and said W. Sydnes not fired and still at Commodre!
WHO knows real truth of Sydnes current affair??


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: Evan Torrie <torrie@cs.stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: Shakeout in PC Industry Continues
Organization: Stanford University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 17:52:39 GMT



In article <1992Aug29.150736.625@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Mark Rickan,
rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca writes:
>Everex, Zeos try to hang on as PC market shakeout nears (p. 93)
>
>      "The other shoe has finally begun to drop in the personal computer
>industry price wars, as the ravaged bottom lines of several second- and
>third-tier vendors attest to. According to analysts, this is just the
>beginning of a much predicted shakeout in the PC arena, and the trend
should
>continue throughout the year...

  Librex (maker of notebook PC-compatibles) has just announced
that they will cease operations at the end of the year, because
they can't compete against Compaq's pricing.
  I wouldn't be surprised if practically all the third-tier PC companies
disappear in the next year.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition	  Break away from the past
Evan Torrie				Stanford University		torrie@cs.stanford.edu
From: Chris_Millar@lppl.mi.org (Chris Millar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine  Re: Sydnes is gone?!!
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:39:34 GMT
Organization: Les's Place BBS

The PDS IS being used as a processor upgrade you bonehead!

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: More AmigaWorld Lies
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:54:57 GMT

In article <52918@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
>	Don't be too surprised.  Any Marc Barrett sentence that begins
>"I know for a fact..." has a 65% chance of being wrong.  Remember a few
>months ago when he stated "facts" about Amigas in Finland, only to be
>blasted into reality by Netters actually FROM Finland who knew the truth?
>One in a series... collect them all!

   Dan, you are wrong on this one.  What I did was post a message in which 
I stated that there were an X number of Amigas at the University of Oulu in
Finland, that there were X times as many Macs and IBM systems at this 
university, and that this was pretty bad since Europe was supposedly a
fortress of strength for Commodore.  My mistake was in naming a specific 
number of Amigas at this university; someone attending this university picked
out my mistake and flamed me for it.  Yes, my source for this information was
off in this regard, as this person did not know the exact number of Amigas
in private use there.

   But again, my broad facts were correct.  Nobody ever disputed my broad 
statement that both Mac and IBM systems outnumbered Amigas at the University
of Oulu.  I still say this flies right in the face of those advocactes who
continue to believe that Commodore is very well entrenched in Europe.  Apple
is stronger at the Finish universities, and Apple isn't even known for their
European sales! 

> //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
>| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
From: kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: World of Commodore
Keywords: If I end up going, I'll post it here...
Date: 28 Aug 92 05:59:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA


     This show, from all accounts, is to be the most interesting
one for Commodore in some time. Either rumors will be cleared up,
or new ones will start. 

            So lets see:
               1) Fabled AA chipset
               2) 68040 on the motherboard Amiga
               3) Virtual memory
               4) CDTV enhancement
               5) Anything else new and exciting...

Odds are 50/50 that I'll make the drive down from San Jose that weekend.
If I go, I'll try to be an impartial reporter. I'll know early next week if
a road trip is possible. Besides, the baby has not yet been to Disneyland,
which makes this an excellent hook for the wife...
From: lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: ** NEW AMIGAS **
Date: 23 Aug 92 20:30:58 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
: In article <1992Aug21.004439.24674@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

: > long since paid for.  
: 	
: 	That's interesting.  I just read the Jerry Purnelle article in Byte

No it's not. It's written by Marc "I hate Commodore's Support, so
you sell your Amigas and buy IBMs, and even as I hate Commodore so
much and Amiga has no support and has never improved much at all I'll
still be a Amiga developer and will own my AMiga" Barrett.

: 	and he said there are only 1 million Amigas in the US, since we no
: 	Commodore has only sold 3 million Amigas, most of them in Europe, and
: 	>95% A500 class machines, then we have 100,000 A2000/3000 machines in

Why do you tell numbers on things you don't know anything about? 95%
of Amigas are definately not A500s. Somehting like 70% would be more
like it.

: 	Europe, and I'll be generous and say 25% of US machines are A2000/3000.

Ah, so you think that Europeans are poor suckers who only buy cheap,
right? I don{t think that there is much differnce in the percentage of
A500s on the two continents.

: 	That is 350,000 A2000/3000 machines.  If only 25% of those are 3000s
: 	(a generous estimate), then there are about 87,500 A3000s in existance.
: 	Do you think Commodore had only planned to sell this many?  

Ill also do some calculations: 3-3.5 or so M Amigas sold, 70% of them
of A500-class and not all them are in game use (I only have A500 and
I'm not a full time game player), of the remaining 30% somthieng like
10% is A3000s (remember that they've been outselling A2000's for quite
long now). Now 10% of 3M is 300.000 - somehow it's a bit different
from your 87.500....

(sorry if I was too in too flamish mood - I'm a bit tired and the
bottle is soon empty).

--
Jarkko Lindblad
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: 2.1 postscript driver
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 01:59:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.153127.27820@nmsu.edu> dleland@dante.nmsu.edu (LELAND) writes:
>In article <1992Aug24.104600.24952@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>>
>>Standard Postscript Printer Driver - September 15th.  It won't handle
>>on screen postscript though :-(
>
>What does this mean? 

Good question.  I *think* it will just make it easier for programs
to support postscript and get high quality output.

>I do a lot of Desktop Publishing and an curious to see
>how we stack up. 

I don't know.  I can't afford any DTP packages and have little use for them.

>What exactly is on screen postscript though?

The ability to display postscript on screen like the NeXT (which uses
postscript for the display). 

>Determinedly,

-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
  "And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mskaff@uuisis.isis.org (Mark Skaff)
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 19:13:00 GMT

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:

> I guess someone will proceed to tell me that the Amiga has more colors...

But it doesn't... Amiga has 64 colour in 320x200 and 16 in hi-res. It does, 
however, have its HAM, which, in my opinion, would hardly classify/compare 
with the wonderful true 256 colours on a VGA card.

---
mskaff@tsaroth.isis.org                              Ottawa, Ontario
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:22659 comp.sys.amiga.misc:13234
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Date: 30 Aug 92 03:27:29 GMT
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <Yk5Ar*LT0@caleb.UUCP> jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett) writes:
> In article <1992Aug22.042013.16635@kas.helios.mn.org>, Rob Healey writes:
> > 	The 3000T '040 ad in byte this month was sad because it showed
> > 	how far behind the times Amiga really is. On one page you
> > 	had the 3000T '040 for $5998.00. 5 pages later you have a DELL
> > 	33Mhz 486 system that can do more for $2699.00. It's sad really

> I think that the 040 is faster than the 486.

Only if the 486 has no external cache. The 040's main advantage is that it's
got a lot more registers so doesn't require as much memory traffic as the 486.

> What do you mean by "do more?"

I would assume "more and cheaper hardware and software options". Commodore has
never recovered from the Tramiell mess. The computer world would be much better
off if he'd never gotten involved. Him and Bill "Multitasking in under 1M is
impossible" Gates.
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
  'U`  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Subject: Real Time OS'es (Was Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon)
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 20:09:53 GMT


I'd just like to mention that the August (I think) issue of BYTE had
several articles on RTOS'es, a couple of which were very informative.
Unfortunately, I don't have the issue handy, but one article did go
into detail about the various characteristics that go into making a
good RTOS.

Paul



-- 
Paul Secinaro
pss1@kepler.unh.edu
Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Laboratory
UNH Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: storage@gbrmpa.gov.au (FTP Storage A/C)
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Organization: Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 08:50:29 GMT

Unreal demo on the PC is *not* unreal, HardWired on a 68k kicks it's ass!

matt.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 12:01:11 GMT

 jsg@ccs.northeastern.edu (Jonas S Green) writes:
>
>Also C= early buyers seem to be getting screwed quite a bit. Witness:
>
> Early A3000 owners:         OS 2.00 + 40 MB HD
> Early A2000HD owners:       2090A PC Hard Drive, not SCSI
> Early A2500   owners:       68020 card instead of a 68030.
>

     It always amazes me that when progress of some sort is made,
the same people who shouted "There's no progress being made!" start
shouting "They're screwing their users!" when they find out there's
something new that's better/cheaper than what they have.  I mean, would
you rather just not have CBM release anything new?
     I guess all those XT and 286 owners got screwed pretty badly too
(other than that MS-DOS thing, I mean :-).



-- 
Don Lloyd                / "...my brain IBM; so if you see me acting strangely,\
don@chopin.udel.edu      \ don't be surprised." - Styx, 'Mr. Roboto'           /
Gibberish is Spoken Here.          Publications Editor, AmigaNetwork 
      MicroSoft Slogan: Resistance is Futile.  You Will Be Assimilated.
From: ddosch@faatcrl.UUCP (David J. Dosch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: J Miner sleeping w/ Steven Jobs
Summary: Inside (Steven Jobs) info
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:17:36 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

Rumored release of next generation Atari!
  Coming soon the Atari Tabby!
The best of both worlds:

1. New Motorola 68069 processor (capable of multitasking emulation 
  of the Intel '486 and P5 processors as well as 6502 and Z80.)
2. Program compatibilty with all existing Apple, Atari, IBM and
  Commodore operating systems.  (Including Atari 2600 and 5200
  cartriges... Sorry special adaptor needed for 4800 cartriges.)
  Runs OS/2 and WindowsNT at almost the same speed as the AmigaOS.
3. Palette of 256 colors from a possible 8 billion.
4. Screen resolution of 102345x20345 pixels, with dot pitch of
 .75.  A must see to appreciate.
5. Has built in IEEE-488 bus, modified for single direction communication
with supplied 8 inch floppies.
6. Midi port replaced with game port to connect to Atari Lynx, for
  coproccessing capabilities.
7. Built in CD-ROM player.  (for audio use only.)
8. Runs so fast, it completed an infinite loop in 11.7 seconds.

Rumored price starting at $8000 without processor.  68069 is available
for a measily pitance of $50,000.  Honest!  A great buy!

P.S.  Does anyone have a Unix system for my Timex-Sinclair?

I take full credit for the multitude of spelling errors in this document.

-Dave Dosch w/ help from Frank Palmisano-

(OK.  Maybe I did have some help with the spelling from Dan Quayle)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 08:05:43 GMT

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
:    This works well on paper, but not in reality.  Consider for instance the
: situation with Amiga CD-ROM drives.  If Commodore is going to bring out
: CD-ROM drives for every Amiga, they will have to bring out FOUR different
: models: one for the A500, one for the A600, one for A2500 & A2000HD & A3000
: systems (with SCSI interfaces), and one for the new systems with IDE 
: interfaces.  Now consider the situation on the Macintosh platform; even 

But if you're thinking of CDTV drives, then there are only three, if
that.  One for the 500, one for Zorro II, and one for the 600,
possibly, through PCMCIA.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(: "...and here's Clinton giving the correct spelling of bong-resin..."  :)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: World of CBM, Pasadena
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 19:17:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.201821.18666@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.111855.14717@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>>
>>3) The AA machines aren't ready yet.
>
>If developers not getting AA machines until 1993 no way C= can sell
>to us.    

As much as I hate all the damn regulations and laws coming out of the 
bozo Democrats in Congress, I wish they'd pass a law preventing the 
likes of you from touching a computer, much less purchasing one.

>People going to WOC can look inside new Amigas to check for AA chips!

Someone should look inside your skull to check for a total vacuum.

>Many wondering why new Amigas showing LATE afternoon when most people
>gone home.  BEST time for show is 10am-2pm.

Oh boy, Jeff Young the Show Coordinator speaks!  Okay, Jeff, you mighty
mental giant you, tell us what else C= is doing wrong.

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

P.S.  All of the whiny-butts who keep saying that we shouldn't be so mean
to morons can go pleasure themselves with an old Amiga Joystick.
From: doiron@starpt.UUCP (Glenn Doiron)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Amiga Sucks and Amigoids are Suckers
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:20:10 GMT
Organization: 68K Software Development

In article <1992Aug31.072129.3814@desire.wright.edu> fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.030512.11722@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, umsalte2@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Mystery) writes:

I don't believe that someone was gullible enough to reply to that
flame-bait...

Glenn Doiron
--
Amiga UUCP+
Origin:  uunet!starpt!doiron     (Organization:68K Software Development)
         BIX: gdoiron
** Not enough memory to perform requested operation.  Add 4 megs and retry.
From: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More AmigaWorld Lies
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:01:52 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: BLAZEMONGER INCORPORATED

>barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>   Mr. Barney also goes on state facts that are simply wrong.  He states
>>that there are about 1000 Amiga dealers in the U.S., and there can't
>>possibly be this many....

	Gee... Barney states a fact, and Marc brilliantly refutes it
by saying it "can't possibly" be true.  What a debate champion Marc
would make.  Read on....

>>I know for a fact that there used to be six Amiga dealers in the state of
>>Nebraska, and that there is only one now; and that there used to be five
>>Amiga dealers in the state of Iowa...

In article <1992Sep3.193828.2070@unlinfo.unl.edu> summ50@cse.unl.edu writes:
>Hmmmm....  Let me see.....   Computers 'R' Us in Lincoln is an Amiga dealer,
>and Double E Computers in Omaha is an Amiga dealer.....
>Gosh, that's already TWICE as many Nebraska Amiga dealers as you claim,
>Marc.

	Don't be too surprised.  Any Marc Barrett sentence that begins
"I know for a fact..." has a 65% chance of being wrong.  Remember a few
months ago when he stated "facts" about Amigas in Finland, only to be
blasted into reality by Netters actually FROM Finland who knew the truth?
One in a series... collect them all!

	In addition, Marc occasionally believes that Iowa is the center of
the universe.  Thus, if he sees 4 stores in Iowa go out of business, he
believes that the same (or worse) must be true in the entire United States.
He's not only a business whiz -- he's a statistician too.

	Hell, in a nearby town, there are *two* stores that specialize in
the Amiga on the same *street*!  I guess I can conclude that every street
has 2 Amiga dealers, making the total... oh... seven hundred thousand?

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: Nolan Bushnell, CDTV, and The Discovery Channel
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 19:01:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.195009.18001@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:
>In article <3295@creatures.cs.vt.edu> lawsons@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Shannon Lawson) writes:
>>"Invention" which airs at 9:00 pm Eastern Time on Tuesday nights had a segment
>>on Nolan Bushnell tonight.  They gave a brief background, including PONG and
>>Chuck E. Cheese, and went on to talk about CDTV.  Yes, it was mentioned by
>>name, and the C= logo on the exhibit booth was prominently displayed.  C=
>>was presented as the manufacturer of Bushnell's idea.  CDTV motion video was
>>displayed, but I wasn't all that impressed.
>
>This is very good news to tell Amiga people!  Nolan Bushness is Atari 
>founder and Jack Tramiel is Commodore founder so there is very good
>history at Commodore (BEFORE Irving).  Now Amiga users know Atari
>engineer Jay Miner making AMAZING Amiga chips.

And .advocacy readers know Jeff Young is a complete idiot.

>Millions of Amiga users now know TRUE history of Commodore/Amiga/Atari
>so they know Atari Falcon will be good for them and family.

And it would be good for you to get a life, get a clue, and get yourself to
a speech therapist as soon as possible.

You are the most moronic bozo that has come along in quite some time.  It
should be illegal for sub-humans such as yourself to post to the net.

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu




Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Mark Rickan)
Subject: Re: A4000 Rumors...
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 02:11:42 GMT

In article <kkrebs.0146@amilink.UUCP>amilink!kkrebs@citrus.sac.ca.us (Ken Krebs) writes:

>Seriously though, I don't think it would be an IDE interface since Dave
>Haynie is always stating that IDE is inferior to SCSI.  It'd be a shame to
>plop an IDE on a super fast 32 bit machine.  It just doesn't seem logical.

However, IDE is sufficient as an LCD controller for the interests of most
people and would substantially lower manufacturing costs. The market already
has a large number of capable SCSI controller cards and will no doubt move
to SCSI-II if Zorro III becomes the de facto standard.

Mark

-- 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
 = Mark Rickan                         ...!uunet!utai!utgpu!maccs!rickan = 
 = DCSS, McMaster University               rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca = 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy