HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davidst@microsoft.com (David Steckler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beginner Help
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:48 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1993Jan6.173202.16163@eskimo.com> fisel@eskimo.com (Aron Roberts) writes:
#
#Hello, I was wondering if there is a FAQ for this newsgroup. I'm not
#sure if this is an appropriate place to post, but it seemed like the
#best choice. I am inexperienced with Firearms and I would like to learn
#more about them the >right< way, not half assed. Any help on periodicals
#to read, or gun clubs in my area (Seattle) would be helpful. If you post
#I will proably not see it for a while so email would be prefered. Thanks
#in advance for any help.
#
#Fisel@eskimo.com
#
(I'll email also, but other readers in the Seattle area might be interested
also so I'll post this...)

Call Greg Hamilton at the Insights Training Center in Issaquah. I can 
highly recommend Greg and Insights as a top notch place to learn about
firearms (safety, legalities, self-defense use, etc.). They have a three day
(two evenings in class learning the basics, then an afternoon at the
range practicing with all sorts of different handguns) Basic Handgun Safety
course that is excellent. The phone number there is 391-4834. I have also
heard good recommendations for the Seattle Firearms Academy; give them a
call also (number is in the book, I assume) to compare. 

Let me congratulate you on taking the responsibility to learn safety 
and legalities _BEFORE_ getting a firearm. That's a very mature thing to
do; too many people just go out, buy a gun and some ammo and put it under the
bed.

Feel free to email me at davidst@microsoft.com if you have any more questions.

	...Dave
From: tmoore@tinton.ccur.com (Tim Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Major 9
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:00 GMT

cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini) writes...

->The .392 head of the Largo and CP 9x23s is close enough to 38super
->that I don't think any work would have to be done. Why they didn't just go to a 
->+p+ 9mm Largo, I don't know. the extra 0.010" in case length would be a benifit
->I would think. Of course there is always the danger that SAMMI has set pressure
->specs for the 9mm Largo. . .

The reason why is that C.P. Bullets is in the business of selling ammo components
and gun parts to IPSC shooters.  Whether they used the 9mm Largo design or
not they still had to contract some manufacturer for a million or so pieces of
brass.  They also want the CP headstamp on the stuff as they did with the
CP 9x21+P+.  You too can create your own cartridge.  All you need is the 
capitol for a sufficiently large run.  Your last point is a good one.
Thanks for posting the specs.

-Tim
From:  (MJ)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: BENELLI M3 SUPER 90 - OPINION/EXPERIENCE
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:07:28 GMT


 
# i am considering getting a Benelli M3 Super 90.  This is the Benelli Semi-auto
# 12 gauge that is switchable to pump.    
# 
# Has anyone out there had experience with these type guns?  the Benelli in
# particular?  

I have a friend at work that owns an M3, Super Black Eagle and a
Montrefelo.  He loves them all and has not had a single complaint.  I've
looked at but not shot the M3.  I think that if that's the kind of gun your
after, go for it.  HK/Benelli has a great demonstration video.  Your gun
dealer might have a copy or you can call HK for a copy (it's cheap ~$8 I
think)

MJ

[As if you didn't already know, my opinions are my own and not my
company's.]
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Cobray for Protection
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:22:04 GMT

#The ones we buy have no purpose other than toys for the most part.
#Cobray sells the semis because of the "mystique" of their full-auto
#bretheren.  How many people actually use theirs for protection?

When I first moved into an apartment, I had a Cobray M11/9 as my
bedside gun - complete with 32rd. magazine and barrel extension.

Never had to use it though....however, one night when I wasn't home,
the guy two doors down went crazy and started breaking windows and
kicking everyone's doors in.  He managed to get into the apartment
between us and assaulted the guy, sending him to the hospital.

If I were home and he kicked my door in, he would have been staring
down that barrel...

Rob
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Major 9
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:21:31 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:

#Somebody is also playing with a so-called "9x23", which is basically a
#rimless .38 Super. Why they couldn't start with 9mm Largo/Bergmann-Bayard
#(a rimless 9x23 cartridge) I don't know.

	No kidding.   I wonder if the geniuses behind this project don't
know that their holy grail already exists, or (more likely) just don't care.

#The 9mm Win Mag case is substantially longer than the 9x21; I don't have
#the particulars at hand. It in turn is almost a case of reinventing the
#ballistically similar 9mm Mauser Export.

	I don't understand why they don't just start chambering pistols
in 9mm Mauser again.   They already have what they are looking for,
there is no need to make a few tiny (but significant to make the 
cartriages incompatable) changes and calling it "new".

	Jim Del Vecchio
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 7x30 Waters loads?  .44 Auto-Mag Loads?  Etc.
Date: 7 Jan 93 03:45:19 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <C0G5En.Lqn@fc.hp.com> scot@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Scot Heath) writes:
#Anybody out there have any pet loads for the TC in 16" 7x30 Waters?  Any
#pointers to a good source of infor for this cartridge?

  Let me recommend looking in Reloading Manuals - I checked in
the new Hodgdon (26 ed), Lyman (47 ed) and Hornaday (4th ed) and
they all had listings for the 7-30 Waters.  In addition in the
book "Pet Loads" by Ken Waters (published by Wolfe) there is a 
chapter on the 7-30 Waters (surprise!)

  The Hodgdon and Hornaday manuals also have listings for the
.44 Automag and discuss how to make the brass (which an earlier
post asked about.)

  These reloading manuals are a major information resource, and
every reloader should have *several*.  Everyone interested in
firearms technology should have at least one just to read and for
the tables, drawings, dimensions and history given, etc.  There are
a bunch of excellent reloading manuals available and the prices
are quite reasonable.  (I'd be glad to send out a file of my
reviews of manuals, upon request.)

--henry schaffer
From: ben.sansing@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Ben Sansing)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: SSK Address--want a .375
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:22:05 GMT
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet


GWH>Does anyone have SSK's address?  I got a chance to try a gent's .375
GWH>Contender at the range and want to get one. It made my .30-30 Contender
GWH>look puny. :-)  Any ideas on prices of the barrels or any other info
GWH>would be appreciated.  Also, does anyone know if he sells to the general
GWH>public or does he go only through FFLs?  Is there a price difference if
GWH>he sells to either?

SSK Industries
721SN Woodvue Lane
Wintersville, OH
43952
(614) 264-0176
(614) 264-7217
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . It does not pay a prophet to be too outlandish.
From: tmoore@tinton.ccur.com (Tim Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Major 9
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:22:37 GMT


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil writes...

->Somebody is also playing with a so-called "9x23", which is basically a
->rimless .38 Super

The Super .38 ACP is a straight walled case.  The 9x23 as developed by 
C.P. Bullets is of a tapered design looking more like a longer 9mm para.

I believe that the original "Major 9"  (relative to IPSC) was where you
use regular 9x19 brass but you seat the bullet to .38 super over all length.
Specal cast RN bullets were developed by Paul Miller (Colorado Cast Bullets)
with the grease ring very low on the bullet.  The bullet was seated fairly
shallow in the case.  Regular .38 super magazines were used and this round
was fired in regular 'skinny' 1911s.  Paul believed that the 9x19 case
was stronger at the base and the rimless, tapered design fed better.  This
cartridge would *not* work in a regular 9mm handgun like the Tanfoglio
because it was too long.  I think that this version of the "Major 9" is
legal under USPSA  because it meets some overall length rule.

The 9x23 is a special design which is supposed to eliminate feeding problems
with the semi-rimmed .38 super in the new double stack magazines of the 
high capacity 1911 raceguns.  Currently only C.P. is making brass for this
cartridge.

and while I'm here..
burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge) writes...

->I shoot 9Major.  [fine description of this issue deleted]
->I have been using for 4 years and some of my brass 
->has made Major 8 to 10 times

Wow.  Ive shot the same .38Stupid brass with 125 & 130 gr bullets over
20 times and Im still doing it.  Guess I win! :) :) :)

->I have had 130gr bullets up to 190PF (you can do the math) but this 
->is unpleasant to shoot.  The muzzle blast is exterme and the headache 
->that goes with it,

I don't think the blast is all that bad (I wear ear plugs *and* muffs :)
The light bullets make the comp work better than the heavy ones.
Headaches ?  Well I wore a Wilson barrel out after 21,000 rounds but what
the heck.  I can afford a new barrel every year.  I'm currently building
a new racegun on the CMC frame and elected to stay with the .38Stupid.
Works good, last a long time, why buy new dies? 

-Tim
From:  (MJ)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: ambi safety 45 acp
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:15 GMT



# I recently bought a Colt Gold Cup 45 and being a southpaw I am interested in  > putting an ambi safety on it.  Does anyone have any reccomendations of brands.
# This may be a carry gun so extended safetys may be out.
# Thanks in advance.

I'm a lefty with Gold Cup/1911 experience.  I had a Colt (not extended)
Ambi-Safety and didn't like it.  It was expensive and difficult to actuate.
 This stems in part from the linkage of the two sides of the safety.  The
left side has the plunger, the right doesn't and you get a higher
moment/torque from this.  In short, you can't judge left handed safeties
with right handed ones.  Because of higher torques, I prefer the extended
ones that have a thin profile.  Most Ambi Safeties have the right half
captured under the right grip.  This may cause some headaches or added cost
(if grip isn't already modified, you need to remove some material on the
grip).  Colt and King's, I believe, use a modified hammer or sear pin to
capture the right half.  I prefer these.  King's offers a good selection,
look them over.  By the way, there is no such thing as a "drop in" safety. 
The fitting is easy to do yourself.  Save the gunsmithing fee and invest in
a copy of Jerry Kuhns?????r book on the .45.

MJ

[As if you didn't already know, my opinions are my own and not my
company's.]
From: plaw@chaph.usc.edu (Patrick Law)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 'falling' bullets
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:22:55 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA

#
#	I doubt it. The stories I read are that people are being killed
#	by bullets that are coming in their windows, not through the
#	roof, or out of the sky. Yes, I have read of deaths caused
#	by more or less vertically falling bullets, but not many.
#*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
#

A falling bullet is equally lethal except its probability of hitting 
somebody is smaller than a horizontal flying bullet.

Patrick
From: mtanskanen@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: US soldiers & Somalia
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:13:56 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

All I know of rifle shooting, is to keep the butt of the rifle *very* close to
your shoulder.
Well, every time I see these American peace-makers in Somalia, their rifles
butt is very high on their shoulders if not really over it. That means
vertically, of course.
What I wonder, why, in contrary with my education, one should use his rifle
like this?

Maybe I have missed something. But could someone please tell?
--Marko
(ok, sig&all still missin')
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AK variations
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:25:45 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center

In article <9mxr_4-@lynx.unm.edu>,
    canders%lacerta.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Cliff Anderson CIRT) writes:
#
#Nathan, get a PolyTech National Match AK-47.  I beleive this is the
#best AK-47 on the market.  Match Grade parts are used in its manufacturing
#and it has a 20" barrel instead of the standard 16" barrel on most others.
#The receiver is forgded.  It is probably the most expensive AK on the
#market.
#
	Yes, BUT!

  The Polytech Legend "National Match", with its longer and heavier barrel
  is EXTREMELY muzzle-heavy and in my opinion does not handle well at all
  for anything other than prone shooting with a bipod, where I'd prefer
  a 7.62x51 anyway.  A friend has the standard barrel PolyTech Legend, and
  it is indeed a fine AK, and would be my preference (if they weren't so
  overpriced).

  -Bob

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: morris@eng.umd.edu (Morris S. Berman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: FOR SALE Winchester Commemoratives
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:24:58 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park


 
 
For Sale - Winchester commemorative rifles
 
Both rifles new in box with all documentation including
original sales draft.
 
Guns are 30-30 Model 94 Winchesters.
 
1.  Buffalo Bill Commemorative with external box sleeve,
    all original tags, etc.
    $450.00 firm
 
2 - Theodore Roosevelt Commemorative, same as
    above but without external sleeve.
    $400.00 firm
 
For more information reply to morris@eng.umd.edu.
From: purtilo@cs.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: pistolsmithing book for sale
Date: 9 Jan 93 23:17:47 GMT

In a fever of buying I accidently got one too many copies of a book
"Pistolsmithing" by George Nonte.  This has previously received the
thumbs up review from Henry Schafer here on the net, and I have found
it to be good reading too.

I'll sell my extra for $30, and, if you act now, I'll throw in shipping...

Jim
From: reidld@ecf.toronto.edu (Lloyd D Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 7.62mm ammo
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:25:05 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility

In article <9301080348.AA02834@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca> keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla) writes:
#In case its of interest to someone, I pulled apart a round of 7.62mm
#NATO ammo (Canadian made).  The powder looks similar to the IMR 4895
#that I use & weighed about 41.5gr.  The bullet is a FMJ boattail
#design with an exposed lead base & weighed approx 145gr.

Canadian military ammo is made by IVI (Imperial ValCartier Industries).
Their 7.62 NATO used both ball and stick powders, depending on the year
of manufacture.  Some DCRA (Dominion of Canada Rifle Association) events
require that standard issue military ball ammo be used; this means
you have a choice of 5.56 or 7.62.  Generally, the IVI 5.56 is better
than the IVI 7.62.  A friend of mine (without net access) tells me
that he uses the 5.56 out to 600 yards, and 7.62 from there to 1000 yards.

An interesting note about IVI 7.62:  It give the kind of mediocre accuracy
one would expect from a service cartidge.   But, if the IVI bullets are
pulled and replaced with 155 Sierra (Palma) or 168 Sierra BTHP MK  (this
is known as 'Mexican match' ammo), very impressive results are obtained.
Apparently, the military case, primer and powder are pretty damn good,
its just the bullets (which tend to mike out around .307") which
foul up an otherwise excellent cartridge.  Let's see, at $.30 for the
cartridge, and $.20 for a bullet  you're looking at $.50 per
round or $10/box of match quality ammo.
-- 
reidld@ecf.toronto.edu (Daniel Chisholm)
reidld@ecf.toronto.edu (Daniel Chisholm)
From: usgtm@unix.cc.emory.edu (Gerald T. McCall)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: black powder
Date: 10 Jan 93 04:34:49 GMT


I read your note in rec.guns reference black powder guns.  I am a black powder
gun owner.  I have several black powder guns which I enjoy firing.  I have 		e 
only used black powder and never pyrodex and from what you said, I guess I will
continue to use black powder.  Do you know if you can buy directly from 	
Uberti from their USA office?  I have a Dixie Gun Works catalog but I think it
would be cheaper if I could buy directly from Uberti. the internet is great 
and you can meet a lot of people reading news groups.
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black-powder, Pyrodex or ?
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:55:02 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

lriggins@afit.af.mil (L. Maurice Riggins) writes:

#The primary advantage of Pyrodex (besides being less explosive than BP) is
#that barrel fouling is greatly reduced so you don't have to swab so much
#between shots.  Within the last couple of years there has been an alternative
#that I've adopted... a lube put out by Ox-Yoke and also under the Thompson/
#Center label.  It's called WonderLube 1000+ or NaturaLube 1000+ depending
#on who you buy it from and is a system of using NO petroleum based lube or
#cleaners in the gun.  It also eliminates barrel fouling and somewhat reduces
#the need to clean immediately after firing.

	I've never seen Wonderlube/Naturalube around here, but somehow I
am not suprised given I'm in Iowa.  However, I just thought I'd share a
finding I made a few years back.

	To prevent cross-fires in BP revolvers, it is imperative that
the front of the bullet be coated with something that is fairly easily
applied, not too runny, and lubes the barrel.  I found STP Oil Treatment,
mixed 80/20 with common gasoline and placed in an eyedrop bottle serves
this purpose quite well.  It drips on and smoothly covers the bullet, then
the gasoline evaporates and leaves the thick STP.  Even after hours in
the chamber pointing down on an 80 degree autumn day, there is little
running.  I've had no cross-fires since I started this, and the barrel
looks like new and has had little lead buildup even after extended
marathons of ~150 shots.  If you can't find the ~lube, you might
consider trying this as a substitute.  I wouldn't use it on patches.

	BTW: my grandfather reports excellent results using ordinary
Crisco on his patches.  Being raised in the Depression where animal fat
was a cheap lubricant may have biased him somewhat, but in a pinch...

	Think of this as the Alternative Lubricant Posting, and please,
keep the flames to e-mail; we don't need to let the world know I'm
not high-tech.

	As an addendum, it's trivially easy to make your own single-stage
reloader.  I have one on my workbench right now.  Look for a more
detailed post on this later.  Just another example of where a bit of
time and ingenuity can make the low-cost application work quite fine.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "Are you *SURE* he's worth a Harley-Davidson?" -- my grandmother  >
< to my girlfriend, about me.  "I'd better not say" -- my girlfriend >
From: smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Home Invasion Prevention Tactics Wanted
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:14:29 GMT
Organization: who knows

rliles@spuds.mlb.semi.harris.com (Ray Liles) writes...
#Within the past week, there have been 5 cases of home invasion in the Orlando,
#Florida area.  The incidents occur in the early evening, when everyone is awake
#and typically watching television.  The *invaders* violently crash or break in,
#using the element of surprise.  All have been armed and there are generally 3
#or more.

How do they get in?
Bashing through closed doors and windows?
From: Panu.Kolju@lut.fi (Panu Kolju)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Class III Question
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:00:07 GMT
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland

weba@robocop.cs.hut.fi (Veijo Paavali L{nsikunnas) writes:

#In <9301061909.aa00679@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:

##That being the case, have any of you seen, or seen advertised, any Finnish
##Suomi M.31 SMGs? Is "Machine Gun News" a good source for less-well-known
##firearms like the Suomi? It seems that SGN is a bit sparse.

#They are quite sparse even here in Finland. The main reason for that is
#that the Suomi SMG is still used by the Finnish army. Well not actually
#used but they still have them for kind of backup guns. The army here is
#quite cruel towards collectors and melts almost all the guns they don't
#use any more.

*True, but I think the melting is part of bad history, they don't do that any
*more and why would they, collectors love these babes! 


##[MODERATOR:  I have never seen one up close, but they are supposedly one
##of the more rugged SMGs ever built.  Perhaps some of our friends and readers
##in Finland could comment?  As for availability here, it doesn't surprize me
##that SGN is sparse.

#Yeah, the Suomi SMG is very rugged and reliable, but the drum magazine
#is a really painful to fill. Well, when I think of it the magazine is the
#most unreliable part of the gun...

*I disagree with this "rugged" SMG comment. I dare to claim that this gun is
*one of the best SMGs ever build, and that is pretty objective comment 
*althought I'm Finn.
*Name "Suomi" means the same as "Finland". Some old "war horses" say its one
*of the reasons why Finland is independent today...Well without it the
*situation might have been worse. 
*Two standand models were largely made: Suomi I and Suomi II. The later had 
*musslebrake and the first didn't. Ammo it used was 9,00 mm Para.
*The designer of Suomi machinegun Aimo Lahti didn't like the idea of Suomi
*with musslebrake installed, because it "affected the function of the gun
*negatively". Anyhow many were made and I havent heart of any problems with
*this modification. Thanks to masslock the function of this gun is pretty
*smooth and easilly controlled. I haven't shot it with full-auto fire, but I
*quess it's action is not that "kicking" even so.
*The drums were made for 75 pieces of ammo. Clips were also made for it.
*Soviets found out that this, then very modern, drum magazine was wery 
*reliable and easy to manufacture, and copied it's fuction to their own SMG's 
*drums. The similarity is said to obvious. "Suomi" gave high increase in
*fire-power to the men during those days that was also the reason why "long
*distance patrol men" used it as standard equipment with some rifle men
*(rifles because of possible long distance shooting and penetration ability).
*The Soviet models were more rugged than this babe is.

*Panu Kolju





-- 
****************Adress: Sampolantie 2 C 16           Phone: 90-256 862(Tuusula)
* Panu Kolju   *======= 04310 Tuusula FINLAND. or:   ======  or:
* kolju@lut.fi *        Punkkerikatu 1 B 5                  953-20191(Lappeen-
From: jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: expansion of JHPs in limbs
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:18:54 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia


	Expanding rounds are supposed to expand in liquid which is makes
	sense when the target is the torso area.
	But what about when it hits a limb say the upper leg, is there much 
	of a difference then between the trauma caused by  expanding and
	non-expanding ammo?
				Thanks.	
					jd