HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chem91@Rosie.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Subject: Re: John Cage
Reply-To: chem91@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:26:20 GMT

In article <yNJgPB1w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca>, al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Haus Der Luge) writes:
> 
>Would anybody here be able to help me contact John Cage ???
> 
>As well ... could anybody recommend any CD's of his works in
>particular?  I have some of the "JOHN CAGE EDITION" titles, but
>that's it.
> 
>I think that "M" and "Silence" were brilliant (just had to say that).
> 
>Haus der Luge - Winnipeg Manitoba
> 

The Joan La Barbara collection of a (small) selection of JC's songs is
excellent (New Albion CD), as the the ballet suite _Four Walls_, performed
by Margaret Lang Tan on the same label. The recent Koch/Schwann release
of JC/Meredith Monk songs and keyboard pieces is also very attractive. Sorry, 
I don't have the numbers to hand, but they should be easily locatable in
_Opus_, and available from good record stores. [usual disclaimers apply]. 
There's still _lots_ of stuff to be recorded/ re-released on CD, maybe (sadly)
JC's death will at least spur a few more recordings. 

Bill 

+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Summary: What do I need Cage for?
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:10:38 GMT
Organization: Quake Public Access

In article <Dw5PPB2w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Haus Der Luge) writes:
>It struck me recently that those who have been most nasty and rude 
>towards John Cage's music (a lot of them have, of course, come out of the 
>woodwork since his untimely death) ... are the people who need his music 
>the most.

I suppose I am the kind of "nasty and rude" person you are talking about.
For what end do you think I "need" cage?  In order to become more bored?
More pretentious?  To discover that music isn't anything in particular?
TO discover that art has no purpose?  To discover that beauty is no different
than ugliness?  That rhythm is no better than randomness?  That harmony is
no better than discord?

Please explain, what should I get out of listening to Cage?

--Brian
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: De mortuis nil...?
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 07:59:50 GMT

elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
: In article <1992Aug13.040804.18638@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>
: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
: >Please nothing more about 3-33.
: : I've never said anything about 3-33 :-)

Have you noticed how much 3-33 looks like three cows in the dark drawn
by Larson (when it's next to a smiley as it is here...)

No matter what, 3-33 remains the best thing to listen too with a
hangover (the only recommendation for it that I can see). Mind you, i'm
not a lower-case haircut with an attitude. Have you ever notice that
people who rave about "john cage" user lower case all the time? "i
think... I reckon... when i first heard... " they must hate the fact
that there isn't a lower-case 3. 

: >De mortuis nil nisi bonum (that goes for Orff too).
: 
: I've often wondered about that.  How long after death does this exemption last?

While they're still warm, I suppose. 

Perhaps you prefer "the evil men do lives after them, the good is oft
interred with their bones".


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: Wedding music suggestions?
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:09:43 EDT

In article <1992Aug15.173924.19765@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ac220@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rich Szabo) writes:
>
>Anyone have some suggestions for good wedding ceremony music?
>I would like to solicit your ideas.  

I've always been very fond of the second movement of Bach's double violin
concerto.  There's something about the intertwining of the two voices that
seems ultimately suited to weddings.  You wouldn't want to play the whole
movement unless it's a loooong walk up the aisle, but it's easy to find a
good chunk to excerpt.

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
(note: my address has changed)
From: al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Haus Der Luge)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: John Cage
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 20:51:10 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB

 
The silence is over.
 
I never did get to contact Cage.
 
Haus Der Luge ---
 
PS:  Thanks for the replies !!!
 

;--- (Haus Der Luge) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Opera miscastings (Re: Immortal opera recordings)
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:34:58 GMT

In article <19AUG199209291794@utkvx2.utk.edu> riggsby@utkvx2.utk.edu (STUART) writes:

>>  A far different case that also comes to mind is Schwarzkopf as the
>>Marschallin in Der Rosenkavalier -- I never heard her do it and I
>>imagine it was one of her great roles -- but I remember someone telling
>>me once he had seen her do it (in Vienna, I think) and felt that there
>>was a dramatic flaw: she was simply too beautiful for Octavian to have
>>left her for a younger woman!

>I did see her in the role, and appreciate the point.  But remember that
>Oktavian is 17, may not be so appreciative of that sort of beaauty.  

That's true, as far as it goes.  But more than that:  Octavian still
loves the Marschallin and finds her beautiful.  BUT he is discovering
for the first time that he is capable of loving someone else too, even
more.  The dismaying possibilities of the human heart, and all that.
People choose each other on bases other than looks, after all
(sometimes, anyway).  It's the same theme as COSI FAN TUTTE: you may be
perfectly sincere about your devotion today, but there's no telling what
you'll be thinking tomorrow.  Sad, but true.  So it's no problem if the
Marschallin is beautiful -- in a way it makes it the more poignant.
(She shouldn't look too *young* though, like in her 20s, as she needs to
be experienced enough to have begun to think about the inevitable
passing of time.)

>But I do
>have a real nomination for Schwarzkopf miscassting - Liu in the EMI Callas
>Turandot. 

I've heard this from others.  I confess: to me, Schwarzkopf sounds
absolutely marvelous on this recording.  The first time I heard her 
"Signore ascolta," I gasped at the beauty of it.  Sure, it's not very
"Italian," but that's not everything; there's room for more than one
approach.

>But then, almost everything in that recording was wrong.

You don't buy the Callas Turandot?  I respect it, though it wouldn't be
my first or second preference.  But I wouldn't think there's much to
quibble with in the way Serafin conducts the opera; sounds just right to
me.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: chrisr@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Chris Robson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: SEARCH Help request
Date: 15 Aug 92 00:03:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvra.41170004
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA

|/ hpcvra:rec.music.classical / givler@bermuda (Greg Givler) /  6:49 am  Aug 14, 1992 /
|In article <13AUG199208573001@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)) writes:
|>I need help locating two musical items.  
|>
|>1)  At the end of the movie _Chariots of Fire_ the boys choir is singing, 
|>I believe, _Jerusalem_.  Who composed this?  Are there known recordings?
|>If so are there recommendations between them, and is the other music by 
|>this composer something to look into?  The soundtrack album contains only 
|>the final minute of so featuring an annoying fade-in. 
|>
|
|If I remember correctly Jerusalem is an Anglican Hymn. I don't have
|my hymn books with me, but I bet you could find the tune listed in
|an Anglican Book of Hymns, or in America an Episcopal Hymn book.
|
|>Thanks for any help you can render,
|>
|>Ron
|-- 
|Greg Givler                 | "If you're not going to kill me,

I don't believe it - I've only been an ex-pat three months and I've forgotten
who wrote this!!! What will go next, my vowels or my love of beer?

I _do_ remember, though, that the words are from William Blake, and go:

	And did those feet in ancient time
	Walk upon England's mountains green
	And was the Holy Lamb of God
	On Englan's pleasant pastures seen

	And did the countetance divine
	Shine forth upon the clouded hills
	And was Jerusalem builded here
	Among these dark satanic mills?

	Bring me my bow of burning gold
	Bring me my arrow of desire
	bring me my spear - oh clouds unfold
	Bring me my chariot of fire

	I will not cease from mental fight
	Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
	Till we have built Jerusalem
	In England's green and pleasant land.

Theological soundness, spelling and accuracy of the above not guaranteed.

		Chris. xxx.

P.S. Was it Arne?
P.S. Simon - who's hooked on Wagners operas now!



________________________________________________________________________________
    "It's a sobering thought that by the time Mozart was my age he had been
                    dead for two years" - Tom Lehrer.
________________________________________________________________________________
Chris Robson, MS 5UR5			Phone:	(503) 750-2766
HP Corvallis Division			Fax:	(503) 752-7811
1000 NE Circle Bvd.
Corvallis, OR 97330			E-Mail:	chrisr@hpcvra.cv.hp.com
USA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd M. McComb)
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:13:04 GMT

In article <1736l6INNjbv@agate.berkeley.edu> Vance Maverick writes:
>In article <c1JuPB3w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> Kevin Scott writes:
>> No definition, just the idea that something in a piece should be fixed.
>> Fixed enough that listening to it lends it some sort of recognition.

An example I mentioned some months ago is Cage's Music For ___, which
though not completely fixed is similar enough in the different realizations
I have heard to easily identify it as the "same" piece.

>I think this prejudice bars you from some pretty interesting musical
>experience.

A somewhat earlier example of this kind of ambiguity is the 15th century
composer, Johannes Ockeghem.  In particular, his Missa Cuiusvis Toni can
be sung in any of the four basic modes of the time (depending on musica
ficta.)

T. M. McComb
From: lana@magenta.corp.sgi.com (Lana Mountford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Baby grand pianos-what to look for
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:02:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Hi, Janet!

I bought a used Steinway grand about 12 years ago from an outfit
that buys older grands and reconditions them (back in the Wash. D.C.
area -- Kensington, MD, as I recall -- I'm in CA now).  Anyway, I
got a "mid-sized" grand (6'), but most places like this one handle
everything from baby grands to concert grands.  You might find a 
great deal that way.  I paid $6950 for mine, and it has gone up in
value.

Maybe I'm silly, but I would almost hesitate to buy a new piano
these days.  I think I'd feel more comfortable getting a good
reconditioned piano.  I've heard good things about Yamaha, some
not-so-good things about Kawai, *very* mixed reviews on Baldwin,
terrible things about the Korean pianos (mostly from people who 
should know, too -- technicians, teachers, etc.).

My guess is that you could probably find a good reconditioned
Steinway baby grand for less than $5000.  If I ever have to
replace my pride and joy, I'll definitely look at Steinway again,
and definitely look at used.
-- 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|    /)                      | Lana Mountford    
|   / /  __    ___    __     | Silicon Graphics  
|__(_/__(__)\__/  )__(__)\__ | Mountain View, CA 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Fast horn playing
From: comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:59:47 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

I wonder if there are any professional horn players on the net who can offer
a word of advice on learning to articulate fast.  I played the horn from
about age 14 until about 20, then quit for 28 years.  About four years ago I
started again.  I practise maybe half an hour a day, and play with a local
amateur orchestra.  I am beginning to get back in shape in some respects,
able to hit the note I want more reliably, better tone, etc, but am really
frustrated at my inability to play fast music.  Repetitions of the same note
can be double-tongued (although my double- and triple-tonguing sound pretty
rough).  But for example semiquaver (sixteenth-note) runs in allegro music
are just mush.  For instance I like to play at the Mozart horn concerti, but
the fast bits are beyond me.  I suppose there is no answer but just 'keep on
practising' but I wonder if I can practise smarter.

Whilst I'm holding the soapbox, I might as well mention also that lip trills
are just hideous.  But Barry Tuckwell in his book 'Playing the Horn' (if
that is the right title.  Might be 'Playing the French Horn') says there is
no answer to this one except KOP, so I suppose I can take his word for it.
But, again, if anyone has any advice ...

jj

John Thayer Jensen                      64 9 373 7599 ext. 7543
Commerce Computer Services              64 9 373 7437 (FAX)
Auckland University                     jt.jensen@aukuni.ac.nz
Private Bag 92019
AUCKLAND
New Zealand
From: schissel@mace.Princeton.EDU (Eric Schissel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beethoven's violin concerto
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:33:46 GMT
Organization: Cornell University Mathematics Department

In article <1992Jul30.200001.238391@cs.cmu.edu> acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby) writes:

>I didn't know that the cadenza would be anything out of the ordinary.  Of
>course, where Gidon Kremer goes, strange and wonderful things tend to
>follow.  Definitely worth hearing at least once.
>
>-chris

I wish he'd record Sessions' violin concerto, or Brian's.  Still, the
news in Fanfare is that he's recording the Tschaikovsky and the
Shostakovich 2nd violin concerto (he played the latter in New York
City last year- the story of how i got to miss both the concert and
the various later radio broadcasts is amusing but personal).
Since i have the Staryk/Davis recording of Shostakovich's 1st
violin concerto you can imagine that a first (?) separate recording
of the second is especially heart-warming news to me- and for the
violinist to be Kremer is better still.

His (Kremer's) recording of Berg's violin concerto is a fine disk
too.  Has anyone else heard Wellesz' violin concerto?

schissel@math.cornell.edu
schissel@mace.princeton.edu (machine used for post)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:37:09 GMT

roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
: For someone who has accused
: others of ad hominem argument, you have just made the ultimate one, and
: the most disgusting one.  You are a pathetic, sniveling jerk, a coward
: 

Now THAT's an ad hominen argument...

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dazz@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr D.K. Woodman)
Subject: Soundtrack from movie "IF" (query)
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 03:27:43 GMT

Does anyone remember a film called IF made in the late 60's with
Malcolm MacDowell? If so maybe you know the name of some of the
pieces of music used in it?

I am interested in any recollections as I am trying to locate
some music that was heard in the film for a friend.

I realise this is a real shot in the dark so any info appreciated
dazz
 

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 03:06:49 GMT

How could I have missed such a Jack Benny straight line? 


roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
:  Cage was interested in removing
: philosophy from music where possible.

Why did he drop the music instead of the philosophy? :-)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,comp.music
From: ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec)
Subject: Tribute to Cage (2)
Organization: The Communications Research Centre
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 03:22:14 GMT

In announcing the "Two New Hours" tribute to Cage, next Sun. Aug 23, I
should have mentioned that the CBC-FM program starts at 9 p.m.,
Eastern time.
-- 
==========================================================================
Ted Grusec    Communications Research Centre    (Govt. of Canada, DOC)
 3701 Carling Ave., Ottawa, Ont.K2H 8S2, CANADA  Internet: ted@dgbt.doc.ca
  Compuserve: 73607,1576  (613) 998 2762   Fax (613) 993 8657
From: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky)
Subject: Re: augmented 4th/diminished 5th or major 4th/minor 5th [?]
Reply-To: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:36:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug3.235131.15836@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( ) writes:
>this is a piece of "historical" [?] trivia i've been wondering about.
>the 4th C-F# is called augmented and its inversion is called
>a diminished 5th, while of course the 4th C-F is called perfect
>and its inversion is a perfect 5th.
>
>now everything, as far as i can tell, will stay as consistent if the
>4th C-F# was called major and its inversion was called a minor 5th,
>while the 4th C-F could be called minor and its inversion be called
>a major 5th...

Roger's explanation went part of the way - that during time some of the
use of the words underwent revision.  But you seem to be unaware of something.
There are various ways to classify intervals.  One set is called perfect
(unisons, 4ths, 5ths, 8ves) and imperfect (2nds, 3rds, 6ths, 7ths);  another
set (e.g.) are consonances (P1, m3, M3, P5, m6, M6, P8) and dissonance (all
others).  The first classification was based on the derivation of the
notes by ratios.  While the second stems more from practice, the combination
of the two produces some results as well.  If you allow each interval to
have augmented and diminshed qualities as well, you will see that our
tonal system allows for four qualities of the imperfect invervals, but only
three for the perfect intervals.  That IMO is why perfect intervals are
not given "major" or "minor" descriptions.

>btw, when does the terminology diminished, minor, major, augmented date
>from?

I don't have the best of sources at hand here at home, but a brief look in
Strunk's "Source Readings" has an excerpt from Cleonides who describes
intervals (using different names).  Strunk states that this author lived
prior to the first century.

Bob Kosovsky
Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
New York Public Library -- Music Division
bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.
From: asbed@sol.usc.edu (Asbed Bedrossian)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mozart REQUIEM
Date: 13 Aug 1992 01:02:26 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.usc.edu

In article <12AUG199208105483@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.170305.1@venus.ycc.yale.edu>, bamn@venus.ycc.yale.edu writes...
>>In article <1992Aug11.180142.21539@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu>, colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) writes:
>I also enjoy this piece, but you do realize that Mozart did not compose 
>the entire work.  So it may not be possible to view it as Mozart's, or 
>anyone's, best.  The movie _Amadeus_ aside, someone other than Mozart had 
>to finish the work.

Or as that perennially overvalued (:) composer[*] once said of Sussmayer, when
he learned that he had completed the Requiem: "If he completed that, then he
is another Mozart."

[*] Ludwig Van Beethoven

But since we're back on the subject top composers lists, let me add
mine here, since all the previous ones were so horribly off...

1) Beethoven
2) Tchaikovsky / Mozart
3) ?
.
.
.
last - 2) ?
last - 1) Bernstein
deadlast) Mahler       (or as they say in France: "Malheureusement Mahler")

:ll
From: givler@bermuda.cbm.commodore.com (Greg Givler)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Wedding music suggestions?
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:41:33 GMT
Organization: Another Amiga UNIX System

In article <1992Aug17.144302.11662@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
>In article <1992Aug15.173924.19765@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ac220@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rich Szabo) writes:
>>
>>Anyone have some suggestions for good wedding ceremony music?
>>I would like to solicit your ideas.  The ceremony is a Catholic
>>mass and I am slated to appear as the groom.  Please post
>>suggestions here or e-mail to ac220@cleveland.freenet.edu.
>>Thanks!
>>Rich Szabo 
>>-- 
>
>How about the middle section of the fifth movement of 
>Berloz' "Symphonie Fantastique"?  It even uses a Catholic theme.

I hope that the smiley is missing, the theme is as I am sure most folks
know, Dies Irae, which from the Requiem Mass. Day of Wrath, Day of Judgement.
I never thought of my wedding like that. BTW, today is my anniversary! 
10 years today.

>
>Charles Yeomans
>cyeomans@ms.uky.edu
>yeomans@austin.onu.edu

Greg

-- 
Greg Givler                 | "If you're not going to kill me,
Commodore Product Assurance | I have things to do." - From Darkman
givler@cbmvax.commodore.com |
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lampson@tellabs.com (Dave Lampson)
Subject: Re: Baby grand pianos-what to look for
Organization: Tellabs, Inc., IL
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:42:00 GMT

In article <basinski-190892112206@lully.biosci.arizona.edu> basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski) writes:
>Here at the University of Arizona, the school of music came up with the
>bone-headed idea of leasing pianos from some local music store, and then
>auctioning them off at the end of the year, ...


I don't imagine that sits very well with the people you lease
the pianos from, but it probably does generate some capital!!  (:-)


-- 

Dave
lampson@tellabs.com