From: steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Reply-To: steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:54:55 GMT

In article <16q3muINN16e@agate.berkeley.edu>
gwh@soda.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert) writes:
>People who don't understand the voting process really shouldn't 
>do things like this...

I understand the "voting process" as put forth within the "GUIDELINES FOR
USENET GROUP CREATION".  Perhaps you could enlighten me and cite another
reference so that I might increase my knowledge to your level.

>In article <1992Aug17.202649.19552@ncsu.edu> 
>steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>>>>>>+laszlo@columbine.cs.colorado.edu Laszlo Nemeth 
>>>>>>+laszlo@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu Laszlo Nemeth 
>>>>>Anyone caught stuffing the ballot box should have *all* of their votes
>>>>>disqualified.

The last statement was Seth Zirin's comment, not mine.

>>If you want to know who they are, just peruse the list below, where I've
>>delineated *SUSPECTED* cheats.  You might be surprised.  Some people don't
>>even cheat *well*.  At least it's *FINALLY* over.  :-)

>The above is an exercise in uninformed paranoia.

Nonsense.  Bilge.

>EVERY SINGLE USENET VOTE I'VE EVER SEEN, _INCLUDING_ the three or
>four that I've run, has had duplicate votes.  Usually five percent
>or so of the total.

Then what you're implying is that approximately 5% of USENET votes on 
newsgroup formation are comprised of cheating or mistakes.

>That's part of the job of the vote taker: sort them out.  It's also part
>of the job of the newsreading public to inform them so a corrected
>total can be made if they miss some (which happens; honest mistakes
>usually.  You wouldn't believe how hard it can be to count votes ... ).
 ^^^^^^^
Oh, I'd believe how difficult it is...I've even made mention of it in
previous posts.  I can also read from the "GUIDELINES FOR USENET GROUP
CREATION",
[...]
The Result
[...]
2) AFTER the vote result is posted, there will be a 5 day waiting period,
   beginning when the voting results actually appear in 
   news.announce.newgroups, during which the net will have a chance to
   correct any errors in the voter list or the voting procedure.

So consider this to be notification to the net.  However, I wish to state
that I DO NOT INTEND TO CHALLENGE THE OUTCOME OF THE RMH CFV.  I CERTAINLY
DO *NOT* WANT A REVOTE.  All I want to do is offer a little negative incentive
to those who cheat maliciously.  Those who have made multiple votes through
honest error can publicly state such, and should certainly not be ashamed.

>There is no Usenet guideline against voting as many times as you like.

Perhaps because it's unenforceable.  All one can do is point out possible
occurrences of "cheating or mistakes".

>The only restriction is that the latest vote and only that latest vote
>is the only one to count in the final tally.

Please cite a reference.  My copy of the "GUIDELINES FOR USENET GROUP
CREATION" does not explicity or implicitly make mention of your "restriction".

>If you find a duplicate or suspected duplicate, post it.  Don't scream
>for dismissal of that person's votes.  

I didn't scream for dismissal.  That was someone else whose name was
deleted from his statement, in your post.

>The votetaker is supposed to investegate and correct things like this
>that are noticed.  If they don't and it would have changed the vote
>result, then that result can be challenged and will likely not stand.
>Unless that happens, just point out duplicates and let the process work.
>We've done this over a thousand times now 8-)

The duplicates have been pointed out.  Like I said above, I DON'T INTEND TO
CHALLENGE THE OUTCOME OF THE RMH CFV.  The quantity of votes due to
"cheating or mistakes" can not possibly result in a change of the vote.

Steve Garnier - DoD #00000005 - '79 XS1100SF w/ 157K+ miles and *climbing*
KotF (Flame),  KotAM (Anecdotal Motorcycle),  The Daemon's Byte
steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu       "Ineluctably Prolix" - John Norman Sims, Jr.
Come an' get it!  Served up nice an' *hot*!!  Get yer FREEEEE *logorhea*!!!