HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: Full Batten Main - Problem
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:11:00 GMT

bentson@CS.ColoState.EDU (Randolph Bentson) writes:

>I saw something that may be a good alternate to lazy jacks.  Does
>anyone know of the operation of the Dutchman Sail Flaking System?
>It's from Martinus Van Breems, Inc., 571 Riverside Avenue, Westport,
>CT 06880, (203)454-0222.

I use one, it works as very well for me.

gerard

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Subject: Re: Daggerboard design question
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:29:55 GMT

In article <16B5D12C29.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) writes:

>I was hoping to tap into the net wisdom for help in designing
>a daggerboard for my sailing dinghy.

Oh oh...

:-)

>Currently, the daggerboard measures about 10" front to back
>at hull level (tapering to about 7" at the bottom), extends
>about 35" below the hull, and sits in a daggerboard well that
>measures about 16" front to back.  Thus the dinghy could easily
>accomodate a daggerboard about 60% bigger front to back.

You don't say what kind of dinghy this is.  It turns out, for the
optimal design, that is does make a difference.  The optimum for a
Sabot will not be the same as for a Sunfish, say...

>Questions:

>1.  If there were no limitation on draft, what would the ideal
>board for light winds look like?  (length, taper, width, foil?)

Usually, most boards are too low in aspect ratio and too short in span
(draft).  Both Bob Miller (aka Ben Lexcen) and Frank Bethwaite did
trade studies on optimum planforms and both seemed to settle out at
ARs of about 5:1.  I have a couple of good writes-ups on board design
from Bethwaite (circa 1975, but not much has changed since then).

>2.  Given that I would like to reduce the draft by at least 12",
>what sort of compromises am I making in performance?

Most of your compromise will be in the area of leeway when pointing.
Also your compromise due to wind strength makes a difference as well.

I don't have the info with me today, but I could copy some off for
you.  I do know that a laminar flow shape is worth about 4 minutes in
a lightweight two person sloop dinghy over a 6 mile course (a
Bethwaite result).  For that reason I'd go with a laminar flow section
like an NACA 64-009.  Because you sail in such light conditions, you
might want a slightly more conservative shape like an NACA 63-009, as
it would not tend to stall so easily...  But only if you have a light
easily driven hull shape.  Again, hull shape matters quite a bit.

--
Al Bowers                       bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
NASA F-18 High Alpha Research Vehicle, Lead Aero
NASA, Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, California
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:13:21 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
>I know this has been hashed over at least once prior, but
>in light of the recent post someone made referring a person
>who asked about jet skis to rec.annoying.irritating.ought.
>to.be.shot, I thought that this newsgroup really needs to
>be split.
	      (delete)

>One of the reasons for not splitting I saw before was that
>some people have an interest in both power and sailboating,
>but that's why newsreaders support multiple groups.

If half of Usenet were as sensitive as Mike, we'd have 500,000
newsgroups.  Fine the way it is... <Grump>

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 14:55:18 CST
From: Dennis Bartley <U13792@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Distribution: na
 <1993Jan23.185152.7491@leland.Stanford.EDU>

In article <1993Jan23.185152.7491@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski) says:
>
>Wayne Simpson writes:
>>  I agree with Jeff regarding the now ubiquitous wheel steering. A 27
>>  foot boat simply doesn't need it and I don't understand why so many people
>>  want them.
>
>It's easy to understand once you actually try steering a boat with a
>tiller. Although it's hard to believe, for some idiotic reason the
>tiller and the boat actually move in opposite directions; in other
>words, if you push the tiller to the left, the boat turns to the
>right, or, to put it yet another way, if you point the tiller towards
>the place you wish to go to, the boat moves in the OPPOSITE direction!
>This unnatural scheme requires considerable mental and physical
>coordination, and many people (understandably) never get the hang
>of it. You don't see too many tillers on powerboats, do you? In
>my experience, sailing is complicated enough as it is. If someone
>were to invent a simple mechanism that would reverse the effect of the
>tiller upon the rudder, I might be tempted to use it. Until then,
>give me a wheel anytime.
>
>Stefan
>

Actually, it's the person who made automobiles steer backwards that blew it.
If he had made the rear wheels do the steering, we'de have no problems :-)

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: legacy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (wayne.m.simpson)
Subject: Re: East coast boat shows
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:06:53 GMT
Followup-To: rec.boats
Summary: Sail Expo, Feb 4-7, Atlantic City, NJ
Keywords: Boat Shows, East Coast

In article <C1Dz49.D9x@news.udel.edu> iseman@ravel.udel.edu (Stephen Early) writes:
>
>
>
>	My girlfriend and I went to the Philadelphia boat show toady and were 
>disappointed to see less than ten sailboats over 20 feet on display.  If anyone
>knows of any upcoming shows on the East coast where we can see a large selection
>of 20 foot plus sailboats we'd love to know the particulars.
>


   Try this one on for size:

Sail Expo, February 4-7, Atlantic City Convention Center, Atlantic City, NJ.

   - all sailboats and only sailboats
   - over 200 of them (so the organizers claim) indoors and fully rigged
   - most major manufactureres represented
   - equipment manufacturers and distributors represented
   - full schedule of seminars for all 4 days
   - 40' x 100' sailing pool with fan generated winds and the "Expo 
     Solar Sailer" 13' dinghy for you to try
   - one design organizations represented
   _ Belle of the show: a 70' America's Cup class yacht

Hours: 10 AM to 7 PM daily, Feb 4-7
Price: $15.00 per day, $25.00 for a four day pass, available at the door
Information: (401) 841-0900
Sponsor: ASAP, the American Sail Advancement Program

Wayne Simpson (no fancy .sig this time)
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats
Date: 26 Jan 93 11:52:14 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke) writes:
>The bottom of the wheel acts like a tiller if you are getting confused...
>
>David

Yeah, David, too often I have resorted to this.  But I find myself furtively
glancing about to see if anyone's noticing. :-)  Unseamanly, ya know.

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
From: baffico@adobe.com (Tom Baffico)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:15:09 GMT
Reply-To: baffico@adobe.com(Tom Baffico)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <C1F2sr.Lo3@panix.com> spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)  
writes:
> In one of the America's Cup series in the '60's or '70's, one of the
> boats had a tiller. Its helmsman (I forget the boat and the helmsman)
> was a one-design sailor who couldn't get the hang of a wheel.
> 
Pelle Petersen, from Sweden, Paul Cayard's father-in-law. It's not so much  
that he couldn't get the hang of it, it's just that in his mind "real  
boats" have tillers. I agree.

Tom
From: rpw@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Ray Wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Liveaboard rent question
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:41:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department

In article <106712@netnews.upenn.edu>, karina@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Karina Haavik) writes:
> In article <1898@tekgen.bv.tek.com> paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer) 
> writes:
> 
> >> The irony is that people don't usually liveaboard because they're rich boat 
> >> owners.  It's usually because they can't afford to buy a house.
> >
> >Presuming we're talking about North America here, I have to
> >respond "oh bullshit".  People around here live aboard because
> >they like it.
> 
> Well, I'll horseshit your bullshit.  For many of us, it *is* a question of
> economics.  I can plan to buy either a boat or a house in about 3 years, and
> the other one several years after that, or longer if the economy gets worse.
> Given a choice between sailing now and sailing when I'm 40 if I'm lucky, I will
> sail now.  

I'll second that. We had a choice. Live aboard or watch from the shore until
late middle age. We figured we're used to apartments, so why not live aboard
now? 

--ray
(Aboard The Now 2/1/93)

PS At least we'll have time to do most of the maintainence ;^)

-- 
Ray Wagner
                                Computer Science Department
     rpw@cs.virginia.edu         University of Virginia
                                  Charlottesville, VA   22903
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: afb3@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (albert.f.baldwin..iii)
Subject: RE: charting LCD depthsounders
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:57:10 GMT
Keywords: depthsounders chart

HI:

This topic has probably been flogged to death at one time or another.  I
am in the process of tring to find a decent charting LCD depth sounder that
will:

	1)	Read near bottom (2 feet or less, does not have to chart that
		close).
	2)	Run at speed (38-40 knots) and read bottom (not necessarily
		chart well at that speed).
	3)	Transducer mounts well on a deep vee (18 degree).
	4)	Has temp./speed/dist. log in Nautical miles and knots.
	5)	Is easily removed from its mounting (thieft protection!).
	6)	Is easy to use (even I could use it).

I'm really looking under $300 american range.  Currently own a Lowrance digital
depthsounder (but that is another story). 

My boat is a 20' Boston Whaler Outrage, so I get wet if the sky dumps on me!

I would appreciate it if you could E-mail you expereinces (good and bad) with
various manufacturers (I will be happy to summarize on the net) and 
recommendations, if any.  Particularly if their are gremlins in the closet
for a particular device and/or manufacturer, I'd really like to know.

Thanks,

Al Baldwin
afb3@cbnewsl.att.com
908-957-3510

Xref: sparky rec.boats:9458 news.groups:26352
From: walter@watson.ibm.com (Walter Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats,news.groups
Subject: Rename rec.boats to rec.outdoors.boats
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:42:33 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

I think rec.boats is fine -- concept maps are not
hierarchical. I haven't seen any dialog on the newsgroup
about needing to get "closer" to other groups.
There has recently been a consensus not to fragment.
"Indoor" vs. "Outdoor" is a very arbitrary distinction
(There will be indoor sailing at the Atlantic City boat show
in February). I could as easily see "land" vs. "air" vs. "water"
or "mental" vs. "physical"... What to do with the posts 
on engine repair? Insist mechanics take the roofs off their
garages? 

-- 

  Walter G. Wilson  (walter@watson.ibm.com)
  The opinions expressed here are my own.

  "My plans for the year all laid out...
   Ah... A dream in Springtime "
     -- Shodo (Go Seigen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
From: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Date: 25 Jan 93 11:59:17 MDT
Reply-To: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University

In article <C1A1uD.36F@spss.com>, bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley) writes:
|>
|>This question seems to come up often. I would prefer the group not be
|>split.
|>
|>There are often enough information of mutual interest: sticker fees,
|>coast guard information, navigation, engine maintenance...

I find all aspects of boating to be of interest.  Not equally, but of
interest.

|>I'm sorry there's an occasional impolitic statement made by a sailor.
|>I can pretty easily ignore those made by a power boater. 

People do get upset about things.  Maybe we need rec.boats.flames :^).

|>If we can't manage to cooperate in an electronic newsgroup, how can we
|>hope to do it on the water? 

One benefit of the group as it is, is that it promotes understanding.

The group isn't broken so let's not fix it.
--
Hal Lynch

	US Mail:  Utah State University
	          Office of Computer Services
	          Logan, Utah 84322-4410
	Internet: Hal@cache.declab.usu.edu
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Rename rec.boats to rec.outdoors.boats
Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:57:54 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.cs.brown.edu

In article <lm8g9bINNjms@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> dre@ember.Eng.Sun.COM (David R. Emberson) writes:
>
>rec.outdoors.boats...
>
>Doesn't that seen a tad redundant?
>
>		Dave Emberson
>		dre@Eng.Sun.COM
>

In my followup to News.groups, I argued just the opposite: (1) much of what
we discuss has to do with books about boats, winterizing, maintenance,
theory, etc., and has nothing to do with the outdoors, and (2) although
sailing takes place outdoors, so does war, football, most gardening, weather,
and almost all geology. All of these things are better classified by their
relation to some other thing than "outdoor"ness. When I first wondered about
boats on the net, I looked for rec.sport.sailing, and then found rec.boats.
I'm not sure I'd ever have found rec.outdoors.boats. 

-John
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Date: 24 Jan 1993 04:59:43 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Neil Stern writes:

	I have a 22' Westerly Nomad and if that isn't weird enough ...

Now, let me see, is that the boat which knows how to stand up in the mud?
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat S
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:07:38 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Distribution: na
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch) writes:

Regarding tiller/wheel confusion.

>If you put a sail on your car would the steering wheel confuse you?
>
>When you are sailing under power does the confusion disappear?

Funny you should mention that.  It hadn't dawned on me, but it *must*
be related the mindset under sail.  When I'm motoring, as best as
I recollect, there is *much* less tendancy for me to be confused when
I'm forward of the wheel.  (Behind the wheel I have no problem at all,
nor did I ever have any problem steering by tiller.)

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: nstern@cass.ma02.bull.com (Neil Stern)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Organization: Bull World Wide Information Systems Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 03:57:53 GMT

I have a 22' Westerly Nomad and if that isn't weird enough it has a
wheel and if that isn't weird enough the wheel is on backwards, so
that logically it works like a tiller.  The wheel faces the back
of the boat, so when seated on either side, the wheel is used in a manner
analagous to a tiller.  It is confusing, but I've been using it for a while
so it's no problem.  The original owner made this modification because
the cockpit is prett small (to make room for a big cabin).  It doesn't
have the same "feel" as a tiller, but it's good enought for casual cruising.
This isn't a racing boat anyway!

--Neil
-- 
Neil Stern, U.S. Marketing, Technical Sales Support, Open Systems 
Bull HN Worldwide Information Systems
Billerica, Massachusetts USA
Phone: (508)-294-3029   Fax:   (508)-294-5328   Email: N.Stern@ma02.bull.com
From: laughlin@ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Laughlin Hughes)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
From: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson)
Subject: Re: Sail salvage w/power (brainstorm)
Reply-To: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Organization: Economics Department, University of Minnesota
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:17:28 GMT

caf@sequent.com (Frank Collom) writes:

>I'm hoping that this will generate some interesting discussions.

>Also the inquiry provides the oportunity for windbagers and 
>stinkpoters to get their brains going together.

>The situation;

>There is a a 26' Thunderbird beached near my home on the Columbia.
>It has been there about three weeks now and a friend and I have 
>tracked down the owner and he is willing to let us salvage the boat.

>The boat is in 4' to 6.5' of water depending on tides,  the keel is
>toward shore and now pretty much burried into the sand and muck. She's
>on her side (mast toward river, bow upstream) at about 30 degrees.

>We attempted to turn and drag her into deeper water where she could be
>righted using my 29' Criss with twin 350's but couldn' budge her. 

>We can't afford pros for the job so we're lookin' for any and all
>suggestions.

How about some more information.  For example, its hard to see why a
26' sailboat would be on the bottom in 6.5' of water.  Is there a
hole?  How big?  Is the hull mostly submerged?  What's keeping her
down?  (If there is a lot of sand/muck on the inside I don't think you
have much of a chance.)

My best guess is that you need to add some major flotation at low
tide, and then let the tide do the actual work of getting her off of
the bottom.  There is no point in moving her into deeper water if she
can't stay afloat.

When you tried turning her did you try pulling from the top of the
mast to get some serious leverage on the keel?
--
T. Scott Thompson              email:  thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Department of Economics        phone:  (612) 625-0119
University of Minnesota        fax:    (612) 624-0209
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mbr@bellcore.com (Mark Rosenstein)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats
Reply-To: mbr@bellcore.com (Mark Rosenstein)
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown, NJ
Date: 24 Jan 93 10:09:00

I'm actually sort of suprised the cocktail set hasn't gone for tillers.
When at port, or rafted up, you can just rotate it up and lash it to
the backstay, so you can fill the cockpit with appetizers. Many's the
time I've had to unbolt the wheel to make it easier to move around.
[big hint: after removing the wheel, lash it down. They don't float :-o]

Of course those of us without 20/20 vision prefer having the binacle
close enough to actually be able to read it. Though, the best reason
for a wheel is the little cockpit table that you often find attached
to it. I knew we were seriously outclassed by a boat tied to the quay
in, I think it was, Stavanger flying a Swedish flag. I'd just gotten
up, and looked across. They had a table cloth on the little cockpit
table with a vase of cut flowers, fresh rolls and a quite nice looking
breakfast.  I think we were having bubble and squeak or some such
delicacy.

Mark.
=-=-=-=
Oh yes. About this bad idea of splitting up rec.boats, I point out this quote:
"Unison is only one form of harmony." 
    attributed to LW
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: www@Ingres.COM (Bill White)
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Organization: Ingres, an ASK Company, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 28 Jan 93 20:31:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.124019.8466@dbsun.uucp> meyer@dbsun.uucp (Don Meyer) writes:
>In article <4038@wyse.wyse.com> jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497) writes:
>>But jumping waves, fify feet from a public beach, or buzzing by rowers in
>>lightweight rowing shells, or zipping through groups of defensless surfers,
>>they deserve what they get. And what they get is more  and more restrictions.
>
>I disagree with the solution, which I take to be an across the board ban
>on PWC in many areas (I'm 100% in agreement with your other
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>statements).  This logic could be applied to *anything*.
>
>  Some people are hurting themselves with chainsaws, lawnmowers,
>  and even the tools in their woodshops.  Let's ban all of these
>  dangerous items.

[stuff deleted]
>
>Don

Don, to my mind, the key phrase is "in many areas" (or "in certain areas", if
that sounds less confining.  I'm sure anyone can think of _someplace_ where
PWC's don't belong, just as anyone can imagine places where chainsaws,
lawnmowers, and power tools don't belong.

I think most people would agree that PWC's don't belong in congested swimming
areas.  I think most people would agree that PWC's are ok offshore, well away
from other boats.

Many boaters are out there for the peace and quiet.  Unless there's some
restriction on where PWC's (and other fast watercraft) can operate, there's
just no peace and quiet to be had.

www
From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
Date: 22 Jan 1993 20:27:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: nonsuch.ebay.sun.com

In article 1jpjsjINNms@gilligan.East.Sun.COM, mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
> I know this has been hashed over at least once prior, but
> in light of the recent post someone made referring a person
> who asked about jet skis to rec.annoying.irritating.ought.
> to.be.shot, I thought that this newsgroup really needs to
> be split.
> 
> That way, sailboat people can talk about sailboat things,
> powerboat people can talk about powerboat things, and
> people with personal watercraft can talk about personal
> watercraft things. All without the benefit of someone
> harassing them for their choice of boat type.
> 
> One of the reasons for not splitting I saw before was that
> some people have an interest in both power and sailboating,
> but that's why newsreaders support multiple groups.
> 
> What do the rest of you think?
> 
> -- Mike
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> My opinions - not my employer's


Heck, We share the water - we might as well share the newsgroup.  Besides, 
the difference in viewpoint between stinkpotters and ragmen, and jet skiiers
and those pesky sailboarders, keeps the newsgroup interesting and amusing.  :-)

Jeff Huntington



Newsgroups: rec.boats