HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jhitch@crash.cts.com (Jeffrey Hitchin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA in fiction - need help
Date: 13 Apr 92 05:01:54 GMT
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA

A clarification here, my lords and ladies.

	When I say I want references to SCA in fiction, I don't
want SF books that are kind of based on the SCA, I want the
SCA named or certain aspects of the organization named.

	However, thank you to anyone who has been kind enough
to respond.  I appreciate the help.
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: proto-France
Date: 9 Apr 92 04:52:20 GMT
Followup-To: jtn@vtopus.cs.vt.edu
Organization: SCA

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Lord Hossein Ali Qomi
sending greetings and prayers for the blessings of Allah.

What I meant in my original posting enquiring what was meant by the
use of the term "Proto-France" was, perhaps, obscure.  The only
contexts in which I have seen the term "proto-French" is in the
scholarly literature in reference to pre-Merovingian Frankish
developments in Gaul.  By the eleventh century all the area we
associate with modern-day France was in some formal feudal relationship
with the French crown.  Those relationships may have been tenuous and
frequently tested beyond the breaking point, but a reasonably well-
developed legal entity about which it makes analytical sense to speak
as "France" had developed by the 11th century.  The periodic extreme
weakness of the French monarchy does not mean the existence of a
proto-France, but of an extremely weak French monarchy.  Indeed, I
don't think it makes much sense to talk of a "French" monarchy prior
to the Capetians (the Merovingians and Carolingians were focused in
ways fundamentally different and with aspirations fundamentally
different from the Capetians, and Capetian focus and aspirations form
the basis for the emergence of a "French" monarchy).  I certainly don't
think that you need a modern nation state from the Rhine to the Bay of
Biscay and from the channel to Spain before you can talk about an
entity which is intelligibly called "France" in that land mass.

In Service to the Society,

Hossein Ali Qomi
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher)
Subject: Re: What is a Persona?
Organization: University of Toronto / UTCS Public Access
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:12:47 GMT

In response to the question of why someone with no persona needs a (SCA) name, I can only refer you to the many people on this net who come from places where there are few personas.  You might address your question to the President of the SCA, who has a SCA name but no persona.

Aryk Nusbacher

(Can you guess that I haven't figured out how to quote with this editor?)
From: MPFOSTER@mtus5.cts.mtu.EDU (Wulfgar Silberbar)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: light blows and excessive force
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:10:55 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Ah, good! Another fighting topic I can sink my teeth into. Killing from
behind was not all that good, because I have only been hit from behind once,
and that being recently...

Now I think that the call of "light" is perfectly fine. It in no way
encourages my fighters (mine in so far as I have trained them) to hit
overly hard.
I do not know how the rest of the Midrealm, or the rest of the world for
that matter, works things, but fighters in our remote little canton guage
blows four ways:
LIGHT - This blow had so little force that it could not possibly have
penetrated "chain over a leather gambeson". These are usually blows that
were at least partially deflected.
NOT-QUITE-HARD-ENOUGH  --  This is the troublesome range. When the fighter
feels that the blow was not quite up to par, for whatever reason. These
are often deflections or difficult shots to make (at the very end of the
offensive fighter's reach, for example). There is a fine line between this
range and a killing blow.
GOOD - This is a blow which lands with sufficient force, impeded or not.
EXCESSIVELY HARD  --  This is called when the fighter thinks his opponent
is swinging FAR TOO HARD. I have only heard this called once, when I was
testing out a new (read "currently not SCA legal") weapon on an opponent
who volunteered to be hit. If we feel our opponent is swinging just a little
too hard, we usually take the blow and advise him of our feelings after
the battle.

Fighting is all done on the honor system. If your opponent says that your
blow was not quite hard enough, take his word for it. Maybe he was moving
away from your blow as it landed. If you step up the force behind your blow,
only step it up a little bit. There is a great distance between what is
killing and what you CAN throw; at least for most of the fighters I have
seen. If your opponent says you swing to hard, apologise and lighten up.
Perhaps he is just tender, perhaps you throw blows with excessive force,
but always err on the side of safety.


By the way, could somebody please tell me how Midrealm fighters wound up
with the image of being "Midrealm Constellation-class Heavy Cruisers"? I
know most fighters hit harder than I do, and most fighters from outside my
canton seem to take a LITTLE bit more to kill, but all-in-all I see nothing
wrong with Midrealm fighters...

Wulfgar Silberbaer
From: dlc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:44:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Why call blows light?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

kevin%cairo.dnet@isi.COM (Non sum qualis eram) writes:

> Jonathan Blackbow claiming to be 'nobody in particular' wrote: 
> 
> > I think that if any blow were regarded as effective, we'd see a lot less
> > problem with blow acknowledgement and thus there would be no question of
> > whether or not a blow should have been effective *due to what it *felt* like.*
> 
> This can easily lead to 'weapons' which are quite far from being any
> simulation of medieval weapons; with the existing mass-, great-, and pole-
> weapons rules, some of this has already crept in.
> 
> However.
> 
> In the case of swords, however, a sword with a lighter balance, and, to
> a point, total weight, can move much faster than a heavier one. And, 
> depending on technique, which can rarely be noticed outside the body
> of the thrower, it may or may not have any effective impact.

  It would be difficult to build a sword that was not AT LEAST as heavy as
the period equivalents.  Conan swords were not used.  The average high 
medieaval broadsword weighed less than 3 pounds, the Viking-type swords were
even lighter!  Even great swords usually weighed in under 5 or 6 pounds 
(with some specific exceptions designed to be used against pikes.)  I haven't
researched or built any pole weapons so I can't comment on these.  Apparently
a sword does not have to be heavy to be effective.
 
> Ah. Now I see where we differ. 
> 
> No,'safer' combat is not what we're aiming for, overall. Some of us are
> trying to understand the mechanics of medieval combat (leverage, delivery,
> powerthrough, etc.); others do it for 'Le sport'; others do it merely
> because it's fun; others do it, plainly, for the one for whom they fight;
> and other reasons. The definitions of the lists have been used (relatively)
> safely from the early days [ok, just after] ; protection has been scaled 
> so as to minimize critical--life-threatening--injuries, while maintaining
> as much as practical the simulation of medieval combat. Not the simulation
> of the somewhat later duel/duello; other arenas exist for that approach,
> just as other groups provide an outlet for musketry, cannons, and the like.

  Yes, safe combat IS what we are after.  We are SIMULATING period combat,
NOT period injuries.  If we had no avowed interest in making the simulation
reasonably safe we would never get insurance I think.  You are engaging in
wishful thinking otherwise, we are indeed trying to minimize the risk of 
any serious injury.
 
> Keradwc

Kevin
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Off-board
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:17:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: gpu.1992Apr14.191713.7031
Distribution: rec.org.sca
Organization: University of Toronto

Back when I used to go to SCA feasts, our househod frequently went off-board.
Depending on whether we wanted to be where the action was (usually), or
whether we wanted to sit in back and talk during the action (Ice Dragon), we
would move a table to where we wanted to sit, and set it.

We would generally ask the 'crat first, of course.

Most autocrats don't care what you do so long as it doesn't affect their plans.

Another version is to set up a table outside the building and bribe small child-
ren to bring you feast food.  This saves a bit of money, and one can frequently
eat better than anyone inside--the people at High Table can't resist giving a
big tranche of leftovers to the charming little urchin.

_____________________________________________________________________________
        Aryk Nusbacher                .. ..       Hart House, 1916
                                      ||_||
          Hart House                  | I |     || ||          || ||  ..    ..
Informal Education in the University  |   |   . ||_||__________||_||  || ___||
                                      | O |___|_|__________________|__| /  \ |
    aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca         |   |       o oo  oo  oo   o      |__| |
                                      |_A_|_______A_oo  oo  oo   A__^^^______|
_____________________________________________________`------------____________
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Persona & Classes
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 23:51:05 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Apr10.072818.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> hzhao@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:

>      If the class is supposed to be about God and cars (which would make the
>analogy relevant), then the professor should indeed followup on the
>introduction.

Not a valid analogy.  No one said that the class in question was about
[whatever type of poetry was discussed after women left the room].  In
fact, it seems obvious from the context that it was not.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane Name Loophole
From: vnend@nudity.UUCP (David W. James)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 18:51:55 -0500
X-Mailer: Fernmail 1.1

In message <702965029.F00007@blkcat.UUCP>, Dave.Aronson writes:
>Josh Mittleman (Arval) writes:
>> On the other hand, a name is far
>> more public & noticable than most of the things we use in the SCA.

>  M'lord, I beg to differ.  All who see you see your garb.  All who see you
>  fight, see your armor (not to mention your weaponry).  Even your encampment
>  is seen by all who pass it by in their daily travels at such events.  But
>  unless you are famous, only those to whom you are introduced, or with whom
>  you have other interaction such as the Rialto, see your name.

It doesn't take much in the way of fame to spread ones name far and
wide.  As simple an act as posting to the Rialto, publishing something
in TI or a kingdom newsletter or a symposium precedings can easily do it
and certainly winning a major tourney can do so.  Compared to those
numbers the number of people who see you is probably very small.

Kwellend-Njal Kollskeggsson
---
                       {backbone}!princeton!nudity!vnend
     "Te audire non possum.  Musa sapientum fixa est in aure."
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: (-:  A Short History of Gaul :-)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 20:29:12

I began reading your short history of the Gauls (abridged)... my eyebrows started climbing.  When they got to the crown of my head, they stopped and had a victory party.  Then I got to 'Charles-le-Main', 'stud muffin of the Normans', and they put on skis and shushed (spelling?) their way down the back of my neck...  I'm currently attempting to coax them back onto my face by reading to them from  A.T. Olmstead's HISTORY OF THE PERSIAN EMPIRE, but they're giggling too much to pay attention.  

So, if you see an eyebrowless Persian with a fuzzy neck at the next Ansteorran event, it's all your fault!!!

--Vashti, with tongue firmly in cheek, in full leg-yankin' mode...


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: cutting through a shield
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:50:42 GMT
Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

In article <9204151953.AA23533@math.bu.edu>, jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:
|> 
|> Here's a question that the various posters on the argument of "A
|> period polearm can/cannot cut through a period shield" haven't brought
|> up yet:
|> 
|> Does the fact that SCA shields are made of plywood make a difference?

The general consensus is that period shields were also made out of what
amounts to plywood.  Period plywood would in all probability have been
of BETTER quality than that commonly used for SCA shields.

|> I'm sure there's an engineering problem here that is just _looking_
|> for an engineering grad student to analyze and write a TI article
|> on...
|> 
|> Fujimoto

Ya, and that will tell us lots!  (S)He'll do a computer simulation
based on incorrect assumptions and simplistic models and we'll be
none the wiser (note that I was once an engineering grad student).
There is no substitute for empirical data.

Regards,
Balderik
From: james@wrs.com (James Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Welsh jokes
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:05:52 GMT
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.

I feel the need to be just a bit of a pedant here, and point out that
Welsh consider the letters 'w' and 'y' to be vowels.  It's only the
illiterate Sais* who think they're consonants.  (OK, I have to agree
the joke's still funny.)

*Sais = English.  Pronounced <sneer>sigh-s<sneer> :-)

--
James Moore                                 | james@wrs.com
Wind River Systems                          | Alameda, California
      "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half meant
				nothing at all"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Magick
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:40:43 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Gerald asked:

> The Queens of England have had personal astrologers, magicians, diviners,
> etc.., and it is for this reason that I inquire.

Interesting.  I suspect that the astrologers and diviners would have
considered themselves scientists or philosophers, not magicians.  Were
there really people in her household described as magicians?  Do you have
any idea what they did?

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: early astronomer persona
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:08:51 GMT
Organization: The Internet


Simon Santiago de Cordoba writes:

>Myself, I've always kind of wanted to have one of those
>equation-solving duels.... (Anybody want to hear the history of
>Cardano's equation?  :) )

I'm working on the persona of an Italian mathematician, so I'm
studying arithmetic, geometry, and poisons. ;-)

Johann Muller (Regiomontanus) has always interested me as being a
rather flamboyant sort as well.  He had brilliant ideas from all
walks of life (one of them being calendar reform) and was, according
to one story, knifed to death by the sons of George Trebizond.  I have
a paper on Muller somewhere in my files...

Along the same lines: a while earlier I played around with the idea of
forming some sort of mathematicians guild in Carolingia.  (We seem to
have a large number of SCAdians who are also mathematicians in our
Barony) Does anyone know of any similar organization out there?

Tio d'abaco
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: MKNETTEL@kentvm.kent.EDU ("Mary Knettel ", Genevieve)
Subject: Pennsic Merchant Autocrat (name & address)
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:04:12 GMT

Greetings to Elwood Wayward and those others on the Rialto seeking
the Pennsic Merchant Autocrat.

Contact Lady Rhea at:   Rachel Haid
                        1376 Isabella Ave.
                        Union, NJ  07083

             phone: (201) 686-2421  or 2764

Be kind to them -- they're busy people (and dear friends of mine).

-Genevieve du Vent Argent, Marche of Gwyntarian, MidRealm
 Mary Knettel, KSU, Kent, Ohio  mknettel @ kentvm.kent.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks)
Subject: Re: Persona
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 04:20:03 GMT

In article <UdvPwou00WB7EttlRN@andrew.cmu.edu> ag1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrea B. Gansley-Ortiz) writes:
>Fra Tadhg and worshipful company of readers, I greet you.
>
>Tadhg writes in response to 'Edward':
> EV> The statement was something along the lines of, "There's another form of
> EV> poetry, but I don't know anything about that because it was only discuss
>ed
> EV> after women had left the room."  I don't see how "I don't know anything
> EV> about that" can possibly be construed to imply "I do know about that."
> 
>t> That's not the way it was presented in the original post, unless my
>t> recollection is seriouly faulty. And, in any event, that's not been the
>t> basis for the discussion so far; why seek to intrude it now?

Gee, let's not muddy this discussion with the real incident!  ;-)
>
>That has been the entire basis of the discussion. *Sigh* It is not an
>intrusion on the discussion.  The reason the teacher omitted the infor-
>mation was explained by the fact that women had to leave the room 
>before that type of poetry was done.  What have you been discussing 
>this entire time? (That's not meant to be snide.  I'd really like to 
>know.) Written Maunday Thursday from my home in the Debatable Lands.
>
>Su segura servidora,
>                Esmeralda


I'm with you, Esmeralda.

That's *exactly* how I remember the tale myself... What indeed has this
fellow read into the incident? I thought it was rather clever, and told
my boyfriend (who is pretty much non-SCA) and he thought it was pretty clever
of her to demonstrate the division between the sexes in that way, as well.
He didn't see any "games", just a good learning tool. (But then he used to be
a teacher...)

Moreach
From: grs01131@runt.appstate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Another word on Light Blows
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:41:29 GMT
Organization: Appalachian State University

Sir Otto has raised a very good point....namely, that any law we make will
simply drive the weebles [I like the word, otto.] to find another loophole.  
Personally I am tired of being blamed for inexperience, and being thought of as
a rhino-hider, simply due to a tougher hide and said inexperience.



I gather that some people support the idea, and the majority don't think much
of it. 
ANy suggestions as to anything that would garner results?
I do NOT intend to stop fighting simply because there was nobody around to
effectively train me when I started, and my resultant years of fighting have
earned me a bad reputation.  
Anybody need a big, tall, hard-working, naive squire?
Jonathan Blackbow
no one in particular
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: andrew@bransle.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Draskoy)
Subject: Re: Transylvanian runic script?
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:52:44 GMT

In article <m0lakgO-0000rxC@sue.komunity.se> christer@sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson) writes:
>But why do you call them runes, then?
The Hungarian term for them translates to "notch writing", I believe.

Miklos
From: dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: You know you live in the Mists when...
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:17:41 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.berkeley.edu

Greetings to all from Bjalfi Thordharson!
>
>Ah well, thus passes another day in the fog bank...
>
>Twcs (who lives in the MISTS)

Oh. So that's why I've been in a daze ever since I moved out here.  (and I
thought it was just because I'd turned into a graduate student...)

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
From: bengalt@wpi.WPI.EDU (The World's Address)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: FTP Sites (Again!)
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:32:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: wpi.1992Apr13.223234.26958
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute


Greetings, 

	Could someone please send or post a list of anonymous FTP sites that
have files on SCA?  I'm especially interested in learning how to make weapons
and realistic armour.  I'm not an SCA member (no active groups locally or back
home in NE) but I've always been interested in the SCA from what I've read 
about it.

Thanks

Thomas Russell
(who doesn't have a cool name)

ps.  sorry for the previous empty post....posting program messed up.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Rialto & Groups; Persona & Classes; East & West; Fido & Returns
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 00:11:20 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <702663960.F00002@ocitor.fidonet> Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim) writes:

>Never said it wasn't. However, to withhold knowledge that one has from a
>student who desires it merely because one's "persona wouldn't know that" is an
>instantiation of a class that I call "stupid persona tricks", all of which
>share the general characteristic of not only being "not useful" but also
>"alienating", especially to new people.

There seems to be an underlying assumption here that a good teacher ought
never to withhold information from a student.  In fact, when I am teaching,
I will very rarely answer a question directly -- more often, I will answer
with a question of my own, which I hope will lead the student in the 
direction of the right answer.  Once a student has followed the reasoning
process which entabled him to find that right answer, he is more likely, I
think, to retain the knowledge.  More importantly, I am helping to hone
his ability to think.  I have successfully used this teaching style for
the last 15 years, in various mundane contexts with students ranging from
high school through grad school.

From the description of the class, it sounds like the instructor was using 
persona as a pedagogical technique to make a certain point, and it seems
to me she made that point rather effectively.  This also had the effect
of bring up a new topic (a different type of poetry) and then steering
the conversation away from it -- not necessarily a bad thing, in itself,
since it can be used to engourage students to explore a topic further
on their own.  It is a teacher's job to lead the stuent on the path to
knowledge, but that path may not always take the route the student (or
sometimes even the teacher) expects.  (Besides, as the old saying goes,
if we tell the students all the answers, what will we test them on? :-)

There is another point that no one here seems to be making.  Perhaps
the teacher in question did not know any more about that form of poetry
and was using her persona as a subtle way of excusing herself.     





Newsgroups: rec.org.sca