HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: is newage distinguishable?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:08:55 GMT

John Emery writes:

>Newage as I see it: a lightly knit group of individuals and orginazitions
>that hold to pantheism, global enlightment, and reincarnation, who believe
>we are exiting the piscean age and enterining into the age of aquarius.

  and after a decade of being immersed in it, i've got a little
description of it myself.  the left column characterizes our contemporary
western culture that is being abandoned in lieu of the right column.
the new age column.

	rational		intuitive/emotional
	secular			post-modern
	scientific		post-modern
	humanism		post-modern
	patriarchal		gender-balanced
	not environmentally
  	  conscious		ecological; cosmic systems approach
	capitalistic		global unity focus
	greedy, self-centred	global unity focus
	nationalistic		global unity focus
	hierarchical,		decentralized
	  centralized		decentralized
	bureaucratic		maximum personal freedom

  the right column expresses characteristics i see are consistent within
ideas and philosophies that are promoted in the category that sociologists,
anthropologists and laypeople alike are calling newage.

  and i don't think most newagers subscribe to an organized newage religion
because it would smack too much of the left column; personal freedom in
action, thot, god and belief outweighs identity rooted in social institutions.
and while the newage is ultimately ineffible, much like the tao, there
are distinctive characteristics that generally [acknowledging broad
exceptions] distinguish newagers from, say, christians or members of 
other historical, organized belief systems.  if sociology and
religious studies departments have faculty who are able to write books
on something distinguishable enough to be called newage, i'm not gonna
argue that it's not a movement, because it is.  it's a whole bunch of
individuals working alone or in small groups who happen to share many
characteristics.  a movement, but just without a bureaucracy.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 16:34:01 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Sep3.163159.24744@ryn.mro4.dec.com> randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes:
>
>In article <65161@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes...
>>They will then streak through the air in straight line (not in a curved line
>>like a shooting star).
>>John Winston.
>
>Uh, sorry, but shooting stars do not curve. You are watching meteors. Yes, 
>I've seen many dozens of them over the years while watching meteor showers.
>-Tom R.   randolph@est.enet.dec.com

Maybe you should get your eyes checked and get a clue while you're at it.
Anything in the earth's atmosphere and unpowered (this includes meteors or
shooting stars) is obviously under the influence of the earth's gravity and 
definitely isn't going to travel in a straight line.

Ithlial

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.



Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:55:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.051700.2077@colorado.edu> bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes:
>
>I can't speak for others, but I certainly don't reject Christianity
>because I feel "too good" for salvation from its god.  A _very_ brief
>discussion:
>
>What _I_ saw (your mileage may vary) in Christianity was a religion
>based on fear.  This is most pronounced in "fundamentalism," but the
>concepts of "original sin" and "redemption through Christ" _define_
>Christianity.  (I am refering to what people are taught in seminary,
>not what your arm-chair bible-thumper will say).
>
>Basically, man is intrinsically evil.  Man can do not good without
>divine intervention.  Etc.  Women are even worse, of course, but
>that's irrelevant -- they didn't even have souls until the late
>middle ages.
>
>You may disagree with this, but this _is_ part of the core of
>Christianity.  Occasionally you will read about a theologian who
>is downplays the importance of "original sin," and gets in
>trouble with his superiors.
>
>
>I've given this a lot of thought, and I can't accept the concept
>of Original Sin.  Humanity isn't perfect, but it is _not_ without
>redeeming features. 

Maybe, Bear, that's why God sent His Son to redeem it.  Of course
we're not perfect.  But we here go again talking about Christianity
on t.r.na.  I guess it's the issue that is the Issue.

>Perhaps I could accept a form of 'lite Christianity' :-), but
>I've seen several Christian theologians tell me, in no uncertain
>terms, that 'Christianity without Original Sin' is _not_ Christianity,
>so I don't use that label anymore.

Whether or not you you refer to sin as original or not, do you mean
by it *never* sin?  In that case, one would *never* do wrong.  Have
you ever tried enter into a discussion with someone who believes 
they're never wrong? :-)

Is there ever an action that is considered universally wrong by the
newage (not saying you are newage, Bear, according to your previous
post)?  What about claiming there is one way to God?

>
>Bear Giles
>bear@fsl.noaa.gov
-- 
John Emery		"You say we've risen to a new age of light.
emery@tc.fluke.COM       You're telling me what used to be wrong
			 is now right."
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 10:57:56 GMT
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

John Emery <emery@tc.fluke.com> wrote:
: >Love and do what you want :-)
: 
: Are you telling us to love? :-)

No, only _suggesting_ an alternative (for some) way of life, instead of
following some rule set given by whatever supposed authority.
That's not the same as saying "if you do/don't do ... you are absolutely
right/wrong". But you might have guessed that already :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Wachowitz, mw@gandalf.ki.fht-mannheim.de, 75742@novell1.rz.fht-mannheim.de
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: absolute identity
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 01:45:00 GMT

ando writes:

>i wrote:

>>to dump my identity is to wimp out of life.

>identity = life. interesting. would you entertain the prospect that
>life is possibly more than your identity? 

  that's not what i'm saying.  i don't think life=identity.  but
without my self, my identity, what is it that is living life?  it's not
me anymore, that's for sure.

>> but the spiritual pablum on the market just disgusts me to no end.

>of course, you're a fundamentalist christian. i'm sure that everything
>that is not fundamentalist christian disgusts you and you want to
>just get rid of it all. Heck, it might threaten that shakey identity
>of yours. Sounds pretty scary.

  man, you should be careful about the assumptions you make about me.  i'm
not a book burner or censorship monger.  i have a broad collection of new
age books.  and the only thing that was shaky was my faith in the pablum. 

>can you realize that those books that disgust you so much might be
>helping some people? or does that idea too threaten your christian 
>identity? It seems like you've latched on to a religion that 
>succeeds in quelling your fears. Hmm, what's the definition of 
>"spiritual pablum?"

  i understand that these books do help people, but from looking at my
life and the lives of many of my friends, it's not lasting help, tho
it claims to be perma-cures.  you don't want to hear my definition
of spiritual pablum.  and again, i think you're too uninformed about
my life to make any assumptions about why i'm a christian.
From: pkdewey@uswnvg.com (Peter Dewey)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: orogone and "crop circles"
Date: 28 Aug 92 09:55:53 GMT
Organization: US West NewVector, Inc., Bellevue, WA
Originator: pkdewey@nv10.uswnvg.com


	Hello,....
  I recently had a chance to visit some of the "crop circles" in the south of
England and was hoping to talk to someone here about it. I realize that
the crop circle topic may have already come and gone here so bear with me.
When I was in England I tried to pick up a few books about the subject to
get an overview of the whole thing,including far and recent history.
One book that was particularly interesting was titled "The Circle Makers"
by Andrew Collins (or Andrew Colin) in which he expounds his orogone
theory of the "circles" . Does anyone know anything about orogone
or the man who discovered it (assuming it is really a form of energy)?.

The author also goes on to link orogone with ufo sightings and alien encounters (a topic debated here quite a bit, i must say) saying that encounters with this
engergy form or force (or as he says "Bioform") are often interpretated by
human minds as ufo sightings or even in some cases as abductions.

so,...I though I would ask....



-----------------------------
the opinions expressesed are entirely my own,not USWNVG. (not even close!)
Peter D.   

Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 02:01:17 GMT

Robert Firth writes:

>Stephen Buckley writes:

>>...  being without needs is to be vacuous and empty.

>To be without needs is to be full.  To be able to meet the needs
>of others is to be full to overflowing.
  
  and i suppose both the life experience of each of us will be enough support
for us to argue about this until we die, but i can't tell you how much i
disagree that to be without needs is to be full. 
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Subject: Re: Abortion in the New Age movement?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: abortion
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 23:32:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.215148.5031@u.washington.edu> pul@milton.u.washington.edu () writes:

The least you could do is get the "law of Karma" correct...

Sheesh...
--
=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=
=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza.  OK???=
="I want a man, who will, lay down beside me.  I want a man, who will stand up=
=to me too.  That's what I like about you." -Trisha Yearwood, talking about me=
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4055 alt.alien.visitors:6105 sci.skeptic:14998
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 18:11:42 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <64571@cup.portal.com>

Dear Seekers of Truth: The question was asked, "Who is Dharma"? Dharma is
a person who serves as a channel for some highly evolved beings such
as Sananda and Hatonn. She has been and is probubly now in the town
of Tehachapi, Calif. at American West Publisher, P.O. Box 986, Tehachapi,
Calif 93581, (800) 729-4131. I don't condone nor refute anything that
is said by her. I have read the book you mentioned by Sananda. Sananda
speaks about relgious things in a King James sort of words. People who
read the King James version of the bible seem to like it that way. Many
times religious things are put down in that way to just weed out the 
people who are not truely searching for the truth. Newage group do seem
a lot alike. A group of Light Workers that Don Showen used to work
with have had Mr. Green and Dharma in to speak to them before. Don 
doesn't like the information of Hatonn that is coming from Hatonn through
Dharma. We both enjoyed the information from Hatonn that came through
Mr. Miller and the Solar Cross.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: is newage distinguishable?
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:44:53 GMT

Bear Giles (bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU) wrote:

: I understand your point, and there are a lot of 'new-agers' spouting
: off about how-great-life-would-be-if-we-all-just-took-a-global-view.

Don't ya know?  It's PC to say stuff like "think globally, act locally"
and to buy food at Burger King because they have those trendy little
paper bags with the fake "kid's lettering" style on the front and back.
Makes me sicker than the food.

: But some people have gone overboard in the other direction with "cosmic
: systems" or "global unity focuses."  Let me ask you something: would you
: trust their advice for financial investments?  For mechanical repairs?
: etc.?

...And some people take a REAL cosmic approach ... like Don Showen, John
Winston, and the alt.alien.visitors crowd. :)

: Once again, it's a question of balance.  Some fundies follow _every_
: statement of future intentions with ", the Lord willing" because
: they expect the Second Coming of Christ to occur at literally any

That's because (in the words of a good friend of mine) "they don't read their
bible."

: moment.  On the other hand, some white-lighters are afraid to use
: paper towels to clean their kitchen stove or refrigerator out of fear
: that they are contributing to the destruction of the rain forest[1].

Once again, being trendy and yuppy and politically correct.  Bleh.

: [1]  The best way to upset an eco-freak is to point out, after s/he
: choses environmentally sound paper bags over reprehensible plastic bags,
: that paper bags are _far_ more energy costly than plastic bags
: (due to the incredible amount of energy required to dry paper pulp).

Now you've done it!  Next thing we're going to see is "paper bags made with
pulp dried naturally by the sun".  :)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:18:25 GMT

John Emery (emery@tc.fluke.COM) wrote:

: Whether or not you you refer to sin as original or not, do you mean
: by it *never* sin?  In that case, one would *never* do wrong.  Have
: you ever tried enter into a discussion with someone who believes 
: they're never wrong? :-)

Well, I tried, John, but you just told me I was wrong. :)

(Didn't think I'd pass *that* one up, did you?) :) :)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:39:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs

In article <1992Aug26.181349.26714@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>Bear Giles (bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU) wrote:
>
>: Alas, most texts tend to dismiss tricksters.  Joseph Campbell (in _Hero_,
>: as I recall) seemed to miss the point in his discussion of _Ehru_ 
>: althought in his PBS series he seemed to finally understand.  This makes
>: it hard for me to say 'yes, Coyote is the same goddess.'
>
>Some very great human spiritual teachers have been tricksters.  Just another
>teaching artifice.

But _our_ culture emphases logic and 'reason.'  Look at the greco-roman
culture:  a tremendous emphasis on order and structure.... and the goddess
of disorder/chaos is also this goddess of discord/strife/etc.

We're starting to break free of this, but 99% of everything 'proved'
by quantum mechanics is absolute hogwash.  In light of this, those
people who can work in highly structured environments (e.g., advanced math)
can legitimately dismiss the claims that they are too structured.

Imagine getting advice to "let yourself be free" while driving... then
learning that the person giving the advice is in an accident every few
months.

Art has broken free -- yet after close to 100 years many people still
complain that they don't get it.  They want a nice picture of Elvis on
black velvet, or a 'starving artists' oil painting of a seashore.

Music?  How many people insist only classical music is 'really' music?
Disco and rap may not be epitomes of taste, but I listen to jazz which
is definitely not mindless without being locked down as tightly as
classical.  (Pat Metheny, Lyle Mays).

Literature?  If it has broken free, it is a literary ghetto.  SciFi
is a good example of this.  (I'm talking about good SciFi, like David
Brin or Harlan Elison, not stuff like _Star_Trek/Wars_).

Movies/TV?  Look at the reception of David Lynch's works.


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:04:58 GMT

Stephen Buckley (sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca) wrote:

:   and that's hardly relevant.  it doesn't matter how old the new age 
: philosophies are when it comes to deciding things about the new age.
: nobody's critiquing newage based on the argument that it's new, because
: it's clearly not.

Au contraire!  I have heard many "Christians" decry "The NewAge Movement"
because, in their view, it has no roots; it has not been "proven" over time.

I never heard JC criticizing anyone but the Pharisees and Saducces.  Nary a
word about the Hindus, or the Buddhists, or anyone else.  Certainly he was
aware of these religions - many of his teachings could be heard straight from
the Buddha.

Besides, I find it interesting that so-called "Christians" are denouncing
teachings from other "holy books" by quoting stuff from their own "holy
book".  "My book is more right than yours," eh?  The "Word of God", huh?
Yeah, right.  The Muslims say the same thing about the Q'ran, the Tibetans
say the same thing about the Bardo ... shall I go on?  The truth is, the
modern-day Christians are slamming other religions based on an interpretation
of what they believe to be "The Word of God" that's (1) 2000 years old, and
(2) has been translated innumerable times into and from several different
languages.  Before the Dead Sea Scrolls, you couldn't even trace back most
of the Bible before the 4th or 5th century AD, and you were lucky if you
could do that.  Even now, parts of the Dead Sea Scrolls are being translated
that will perhaps set modern-day Christianity on its ear (if they listen).
I refer you to this month's "Biblical Archaeology Review" which contains
an excellent series of articles on the current state of the DSS.

I don't want to start the tired old thread of whether the NT was written in
Greek (proven false for years), Aramaic (some still believe this despite
linguistic evidence to the contrary), or Hebrew.  You will believe what you
want tobelieve.  Please stop trying to jam your beliefs down others'
throats.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:46:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.152502.6716@tc.fluke.COM> emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes:
>Newage as I see it: a lightly knit group of individuals and orginazitions
>that hold to pantheism, global enlightment, and reincarnation, who believe
>we are exiting the piscean age and enterining into the age of aquarius.

Do you consider me "new age?"

Using your criteria:  No, no, no, no and no.

(I do not believe in pantheism == god is everything.  Polytheism is
arguable, but most people are polytheistic.  (There are roughly
2 billion Jews, Moslems and Christians, but over 5.5 billion people.
Besides, many Christians are _not_ monotheistic -- I would argue many
southern Baptists view "Satan" as a god rather than 'fallen angel.')).

(I do not believe in "global enlightment" because most people are too
lazy and/or scared).

(I consider reincarnation an irrelevant question, since it presupposes
knowledge of events after death).

(I reject, outright, astrology including "piscean" and "aquarian" ages).


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 31 Aug 92 08:48:16 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage

In <64571@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:

>To all seekers of truth: You may have heard of Encounters of the third
>kind but have you heard of the Encounters of the Gilled Kind.

Which are often followed by Encounters of the Grilled Kind.  Served with a
green salad.  Yum.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
 |__/__/_/     SHHHH!! I hear SIX TATTOOED TRUCK-DRIVERS tossing ENGINE
 |warren@      BLOCKS into empty OIL DRUMS..
/ nysernet.org 
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4181 alt.alien.visitors:6348
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Date: Wed,  2 Sep 92 18:22:42 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Dear Friends: Someone just pointed out that the total people in our 
party was not 7 but 9. Sorry about that. I just got back from my trip
to Mt. Shasta for 4 days. I met a person that owns the next plot of 
land by me on Mt. Shasta who in the past has known personally the following
people; Nola VanValer, Sister Thedra and Mother Mary (not to be confused
with the mother of Jesus). He had been given 24 of the magnetic tape 
recordings that were channeled by the people inside of Mt. Shasta. He 
has offered to make me some casette copies of the material.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage