HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rob@spot.Colorado.EDU (Rob Cuthbertson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: revolver handling
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:00:52 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

lizard@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu (Tom Linsley) writes:
#
#tjohnson@xenon.stanford.edu (Ted C. Johnson) writes:
##  [ asks about keeping an empty chamber below the hammer ] 
#
#I would have no compunctions about carrying a GP-100 with all chambers
#loaded.  However, if a revolver is a "house gun" which is kept constantly
#loaded, the admonition about keeping an empty chamber under the hammer
#should still be observed as a safety precaution in the event of a fire.
#One hates even to consider such things, but cartridges can discharge as
#a result of the heat, and if a round is in the chamber under the hammer,
#it can fire through the barrel just as if the trigger had been pulled.
#The explosion of rounds not in line with the barrel will merely blow the
#gun apart, posing relatively little risk to firefighters and neighbours.

What?  I don't think that the bullet will care if there's a barrel in front
of it or not, the only loss from discharging a round from the second cylinder
would be accuracy.  (which doesn't much matter in this situation!)

Makes tons of sense if you just think about it, the cylinder has to take the 
full pressure of discharge, and the back of the frame will be tough enough
to hold the brass in place.  The only thing the barrel will do is spin the
bullet for you and keep the pressure up while the powder burns completely.
(Actually, is this even an issue in revolvers?  Wouldn't most of the pressure 
be lost after the bullet was in the barrel?)

If you can't just see this empirically, I can give one data point -- a friend
of mine had a fit of dyslexia while reloading his 44 Magnum, instead of 12gr
he loaded it up with 21.  (lucky to be alive, I know and he knows) 
The concussion was extreme enough to touch off the next round over, leaving
two .44" holes in the target -- one dead on the center X, the other about 4"
to the right and 6" down.

(For the morbidly curious, the top half of the cylinder was gone, the top
bar from the frame came back at him, but only cut his hair, not his scalp.
Minor cuts on his hands and arms, and a funny haircut.)

--Rob Cuthbertson, rob@spot.Colorado.EDU
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ruger New Model Single Six .22/.2WMR
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:33:49 GMT
Organization: AT&T


FOR SALE:

5 1/2 " barrel stainless Ruger New Single Six revolver.  Has both
the .22 LR and .22 WMR cylinders.  Excellent condition, perhaps 10
boxes of ammo. through it total, original box included.

Reason for sale, son is selling for money for toy for his car.

Price $200 firm, I'll pay shipping from my FFL to yours.  I'll also
send along the remaining boxes of .22 WMR which I'll not have a need for.

B. D. Woods
52 Lake Road
Brentwood, NH 03833
From: m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Air Weapons and the Olympics
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:38:11 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: The Next Challenge, Fairfax, Va.



The Olympic Triplecast is being done by NBC, the same as the regular
non-pay broadcast.

Needless to say, no display of firearms in a sporting activity will
occur.  Not even for the modern pentathalon, though other sections of
that contest will be shown.

[Followups to tpg, please - beat ya to it, Mr. Mod]

Frank Ney N4ZHG EMT-P  LPVa NRA ILA GOA CCRTKBA "M-O-U-S-E"
Commandant and Acting President, Northern Virginia Free Militia
Send e-mail for an application and more information
----------------------------------------------------------------
"...I am opposed to all attempts to license or restrict the arming of
individuals...I consider such laws a violation of civil liberty, 
subversive of democratic political institutions, and self-defeating
in their purpose."
        - Robert Heinlein, in a 1949 letter concerning "Red Planet"
-- 
The Next Challenge - Public Access Unix in Northern Va. - Washington D.C.
703-803-0391 To log in for trial and account info.
From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: England - Land of Paradise for Progunners???
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:37:53 GMT



Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Pro-gunners???

The Guardian  (a quality & generally liberal daily national newspaper)
Monday 27/7/92

MORE CHILDREN HAVE SHOTGUNS

David Hencke
Westminster Correspondent

Hundreds of children and teenagers, including two aged 9 & 10, have
been issued with shotgun certificates under a government policy
supported by the gun lobby to introduce the young to weapons.

[....]

No national figures are available for the number of people holding
shotgun certificates, and the Home Office minister, Charles Wardle,
recently refused to give details to Alan Milburn, Labour MP for
Darlington, because the information was "too expensive to collect".

[....]

The 1988 Firearms Act sets no minimum age to obtain a shotgun
licence.

Inquiries to 20 police forces show that the youngest known shotgun
licence holder is a boy aged nine. The licence was issued by Avon &
Somerset police. Cambridgeshire had the second youngest, aged 10. It
says it handles one application a month from under 16s, but does not
know how many hold licences.

[....]

Mr Milburn said: "I am aghast that 9 & 10 year olds should be issued
with shotgun certificates. We are moving towards an American style
gun society by encouraging primary school  children to hold shotguns."

He said there was a need for a change in the law, and called on
the Home Office to direct police forces to keep accessible records of
how many schoolchildren have guns. He is supported by 58 Labour MPs,
one Conservative and one Liberal Democrat.

However, Mr Wardle said: "The Government is firmly of the view that
the law should allow the young to be introduced to the use of
firearms, while at the same time ensuring that they receive proper
instruction."

(Reproduced without permission)

          Andy Dingley    dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AVOIDING GETTING MISTAKENLY SHOT
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:41:43 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

#In the People's Republic of Kalifornia, it can and does happen all the
#time.  This is the lawyer state.  Even if the shooting is justified;
#you can possibly look at your exposed carry or CCW permit being
#suspended or revoked pending an investigation.  Firearm being 

In Massachusetts they will not only confiscate the permit; suspend or 
revoke it (so that you do not have "licensed status" if you carry without the
paper on you), but they will also come for all of your other guns to
confiscate until, and if, you are cleared. 

#confiscated and mysteriously disappear from the local PD's property room
#or some bureaucratic red tape to keep you from your legally owned firearm.
#I personally would be royally P'd if it was a SIG-Sauer with some minor
#custom gunsmithing or a tactical pistol from the S&W Performance
#Center that turned up missing after the shooting was deemed justifiable.

One needs to keep a sense of perspective here.  Although it would
be reasonable to get pissed under this situation, the cost of the lost
Sig or Custom S&W would generally NOT be the most expensive item
resulting form a justified shooting.

#.....
#alive on the stand for using this evil assault round.  Fortunately, I'm
#leaving Kalifornia the end of August, probably permanently.  I just hope

Congratulations

#that none of my friends, acquaintances and people I work with ever get 
#involved in any shootings because regardless of whether or not the
#shooting is justified or not, it is Napoleonic justice with respect to 
#your second amendment rights.
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stoli Panda action
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:10:01 GMT
Organization: who knows

megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) writes...
# ...
#That is Stolle Panda.  You will find advertisements in Precision
#Shooting for these.  They run about $650 and you will be put on a
#waiting list that is from 3 to 6 months long.  Sorry I cannot remember
#the name of the manufacturer.  I probably will just as soon as I send
#this article off.  B-}  I have it at home if you are interested.

The company is:

Kelbly, Inc.
7222 Dalton Fox Lake Rd.
N. Lawrence, OH 44666
216-683-4674
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Guncraft...
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:34:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Since a couple of people have asked...

The number for Guncraft Sports is:
   +1 615 966 4501 tel
   +1 615 966 4500 fax

Monday-Friday 10am - 9pm / Saturday 10am - 8pm / Sunday 12pm - 6pm

Again, if you shoot IPSC/USPSA, let them know and they'll give you 10% off
their advertised prices...

-- 
DVC,
  Paul

Paul Yoshimune
pauly@netcom.com
From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Do it your self bluing solution
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:47:24 GMT



# I did some touch up with Birchwood Casey Perma-Blue


I've used this (same brand) on all sorts of small hand tools. It gives a
good finish and seems to survive repeated handling very well, but
doesn't seem too rust-resistant. I don't think this would be a problem
with guns, but it is for tools hanging in a slightly damp garage.

          Andy Dingley    dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Wanted: rifle/pistol ->same ammo
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:41:25 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

neat stuff:
erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:

#Kevin Kadow writes:
##Can anybody suggest a good combo, or a handgun that fires cartridges that can
##be used in a semi-auto rifle, other than .22 rimfire?

#3. A modified M1 carbine in .45 Win Mag and a pistol such as the LAR
#Grizzly in the same chambering.

#6. A FedOrd or Navy Arms 7.63mm Mauser Carbine paired with a Broomhandle
#or Tokarev.

They (.45WM or .30 Mauser carbines) would both be very interesting.   
I read that Thomson 1927s have been either made in 10mm or converted 
to it.   That would also fit the bill.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: raymond@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu (Raymond Man)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand/M1A history & differences?
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:02:58 GMT


In <1992Jul22.121038.28133@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, Bob DeBula writes:
#The "twinggggg!" sound, as I remember it, happens when the clip
#is ejected from the action at the end of eight rounds	, not
#when it hits the ground. It is a very distinct sound. 

You sure it is the sound of the clip and not the ringing in your
ears from the eight rounds? :-)

Well, granted the shooter, with his very good "frequency seperating" ears,
can hear that sound, given the multi-path dispersion effect, the person at
the other end can only hear what is merged with the orders of magnitude
louder bang from the muzzle, if his ears are not still ringing from the
sound of his return fire.

So, anyone wished to claim having hear that "twinggggg!" from the other
side?

Raymond Man
From: pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch (Peter Kunz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: shooting in las vegas
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:10:02 GMT
Organization: ICU - University of Zurich, Dept. of Comp. Sci.


well folks, for anyone interested, i found the calling card of a las vegas
gun shop and shooting range:

the gun store
& indoor range
2900 east tropicana
las vegas, nv 89121

phone 702 454 1110
fax   702 454 6129


have fun
-pete

Peter J. Kunz		Home:		(+41) 061 721 75 56 (Weekends)
P.O. Box 315		Business:	(+41) 01  261 35 74 (Weekdays)
4106 Therwil		Fax:		(+41) 061 324 71 88
Switzerland		E-Mail:		pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock & SIG Triggers
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:37:10 GMT
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.

davy.thomas@Corp.Sun.COM (Davy Thomas - N.A. Solution Center) writes:

#>I like Glocks, but you have to recognize that they can be a pain, since
#>once a round is chambered you have to either shoot it or else pull the
#>magazine and rack the slide to "safe" the weapon against a simple
#>trigger pull.

#Isn't the method the same for the SIGs (since they have no active
#saftey, either)?

 Not quite. In a GLOCK, once a round is chambered, you have
 a gun which will fire when ~5 lbs of pressure are applied
 to the trigger. In the SIG, you can use the decocker system
 to return the trigger to the fully forward position. Once
 there it requires ~12 lbs of pressure on the trigger to fire
 the gun. A five pound trigger is pretty light, almost equal
 to most guns in SA mode. (The SIG is 4.4 lbs in SA mode).
 A twelve pound trigger is fairly heavy, similar to a standard
 DA revolver. When I had a GLOCK I never felt comfortable
 keeping a round chambered. I still don't keep one chambered
 with the SIG, but mainly because the SIG spends most of its
 time locked in the safe. (Its not my house gun like the GLOCK
 use to be). Of course there is one solution to the light GLOCK
 trigger. It's called Training, Training, more Training, and
 keeping your %$%#@% finger off of the trigger until you are ready
 to fire the gun. GLOCK also recommends a holster that covers
 the entire trigger area. The GLOCK is safe with a round chambered
 as long as you don't touch the trigger. My main concern was
 that my wife was familiar ONLY with DA revolvers, and leaving
 the GLOCK with a round chambered could be asking for a AD, or
 worse. 

                                Bill Vojak
                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com
                                NRA, ILA, CFC

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The CBS Nightly Propaganda With Dan Rather. (RATHER NOT!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Whenever someone tells you you won't need a gun, you better
 bring one along."  -  Robert Mitchum as PI Philip Marlowe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand/M1A history & differences?
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:50:27 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <9207231930.AA03331@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu> raymond@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu (Raymond Man) writes:
#
#In <1992Jul22.121038.28133@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, Bob DeBula writes:
##The "twinggggg!" sound, as I remember it, happens when the clip
##is ejected from the action at the end of eight rounds	, not
##when it hits the ground. It is a very distinct sound. 

Agreed.

#So, anyone wished to claim having hear that "twinggggg!" from the other
#side?

The "twingggg" is real and is easily heard quite some distance, at
least from the *back* side of the rifle.  Our range has carpeted floors
and sound absorbing material all around the sides of the shooter but
there is no mistaking the sound of someone finishing the clip of a
Garand, even when he's 18 lanes away.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: No subject
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:36:40 GMT


Definitions

Would anyone more knowledgable care to give a definition of the
following:

   Button & Cut rifling

   Air & star gauging

   Glass bedding

   Hammer forging & the alternative processes (and the
   characteristiocs that make one process better than another)


I have a general idea of their meaning, but would appreciate a
definitive comment.  Thanks,

          Andy Dingley    dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Stoli Panda action
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:36:36 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

A friend and I have been kicking around the idea of making an action 
for the 'minimal White Tail' cartridge, probably based on the 7.62 x 39
case or a very chopped 308 case, caliber 6.5mm through .308
ie a 90-125 grain bullet at 2700-3000 fps.
In order for this action to be interesting enough to actually spend the
excessive amount of time to make, it is going to be one of the lightest
actions around. Since a bolt action doesn't need any strength except
at the locking lugs, the action will be made out of AL, with a
steel bolt head, and steel locking lugs. (also possibly the threaded portion
where the barrel goes will need to be steel, that's yet to be determined)

My gunsmith mentioned the Stoli Panda as an action that already has
all of the above. It's a common benchrest action. I have some dim memory
about a magazine article about these actions, one of the things I seem
to remember is that the weight was well under a pound. This raises an
interesting possibility:

Action		.75 pound		(my SWAG)
Stock		.75 pound		(Brown precision already has a 1# stock)
Scope		.8 pound		(another SWAG)
Barrel		.75 pound	(I may be off here, I calculated this from
				assuming density of steel at ~6 g/cm^3
				and a barrel with ~45 cm^3 of steel)
----------------------------
		3.05# + .2# for ammo
		3.25#

Now that's a rifle I could carry around all day!

Recoil is going to be interesting with that light a rifle, My 308 weighs
in at about 7#, and shoots a 150@2800fps, a 125@2700fps in a 3.25# rifle
will have about 60% more recoil. 

So what do you think?
-Chris L
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* Remember, only mere mortals need sleep!
From: steffen@stud.cs.uit.no (Steffen Baeroe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Springfield P9 Factory Comp Pistol
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:26:58 GMT
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway

In article <1992Jul21.020206.10148@massey.ac.nz>, C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz (C.T. Teo) writes:
|> Re: Springfield P9 Factory Comp Pistol
|> 
|> Both 9mm para and 40 S&W calibers are available for the above model from
|> Springfield Armory. Before getting myself more in debt by getting one, I would
|> like to know whether getting a 9mm para can be easily converted to 40 S&W or
|> vice versa by changing barrel and magazine. Or is there more to this?
|> 
|> Thanks.
|> 
|> C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz
|> Massey University
|> New Zealand
|> 

Is there anybody out there who knows how accurate
Springfield P9 Factory Comp Pistol is and how is the 
general quality of the same gun. (In either caliber)?????

Steffen
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Air Weapons and the Olympics
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:10:05 GMT
Organization: who knows

barry@godzilla.quotron.com (Barry Geipel) writes...
#The Los Angeles Times has been providing excellent coverage in their
#daily Qlympics summary. Included are the preliminary and final scores of
#the entire field (not just the top three and the USA shooters. Nice Job!
#If people are interested, I can post some of the scores...

Count my vote!
From: dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Combat Experience w/.45 ACP
Date: 25 Jul 92 13:12:16 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


In article <9207241722.AA04466@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com> bartb@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt) writes:
#Oft times, comments on this net are about GYSGT Carlos Hathcock's sniping
                                           ^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
What is the name of his book, and who publishes it?   

BTW, an excellent story, and markmanship to match.  He _should_ have
gotten the Medal of Honor.

--
David Winters  
dcwst8@unix.cis.pitt.edu OR winters@vms.cis.pitt.edu

          Illigitimi non carborundum.
From: pnr0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PAUL N. RITTER)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ricochets
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:40:59 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <76183@ut-emx.uucp>, dans@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Daniel L. Schneider) wr
ites:
#
#When I was 12 years old, I got into a BB gun fight with my best friend.
#(yeah, I know it was stupid, but I thought it would be funny to shoot
#him in the butt.)
#
#I was seriously outgunned, as I had a little one pump Daisy and my friend
#had a multi-pump Crosman.  He returned fire, hitting me in the thigh.
#It hurt a heck of a lot, and I screamed for a few minutes, but I saw
#no hole in my jeans, and assumed that it hadn't penetrated.  My thigh
#hurt for the rest of the day, so when I got home, I removed my jeans
#and discovered a hole in my thigh.  The BB had penetrated my jeans and at
#least an inch of meat.  Anyway, it was deep enough that I couldn't get
#it out myself, and had to tell my mom.  The doctor decided that the
#surgery required to get it out wasn't worth it, so I still have a BB
#in my leg today, 12 years later.
#
#The point of this story is to show that the BB guns carried by many
#of our children have the potential to cause serious damage.  I escaped
#serious injury only because the BB hit me in a "safe" place.  That kind
#of penetration could have been lethal in other parts of my body, as shown
#in the tragic story related in an earlier post.
#
#So don't assume that your children aren't capable of being idiots.
#Take appropriate precautions.
#
#Dan
#dans@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
#

    BTW, since I posted the article about the BB hit in the nasal opening, I
 neglected to say that the BB is still there. The doctor that I went to see
 also thought that surgery was also not needed. I don't have any "trouble"
 with it, but a few years ago I went to England and it set off the metal
 detector in BOTH airports. Try and explain THAT to their security! I must
 admit that the security in England were MUCH more relaxed than here. Here,
 weapons were drawn and I was carted away. Not too cool.
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand/M1A history & differences?
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:29:21 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <9207231930.AA03331@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu>, by raymond@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu (Raymond Man):
# 
# In <1992Jul22.121038.28133@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, Bob DeBula writes:
# #The "twinggggg!" sound, as I remember it, happens when the clip
# #is ejected from the action at the end of eight rounds	, not
# #when it hits the ground. It is a very distinct sound. 
# 
# You sure it is the sound of the clip and not the ringing in your
# ears from the eight rounds? :-)
# 
# Well, granted the shooter, with his very good "frequency seperating" ears,
# can hear that sound, given the multi-path dispersion effect, the person at
# the other end can only hear what is merged with the orders of magnitude
# louder bang from the muzzle, if his ears are not still ringing from the
# sound of his return fire.
# 
# So, anyone wished to claim having hear that "twinggggg!" from the other
# side?
#

Wellll, not from "the other side", but from some distance down
the firing line. 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)