HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: osstlm@eua.ericsson.se (Tomas Lundstrom)
Subject: Re: Vera offers thoughts on Macedonia crisis
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 09:42:00 GMT

I have a few questions on this intricate issue of Macedonia:
(Please no Greeks, I want to hear the 'Slav' Macedonians version)

In article <9225310.1217@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> sachz@montebello.ecom.unimelb.EDU.AU (SAS) writes:
>
>Vera offers thoughts on Macedonia crisis
>
>
>   "The Republic of Macedonia, a Balkans state of 2.2 million
>people, is bordered by Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia and Albania.
>
>   The territory of the Republic of Macedonia has been known
>as Macedonia since before Alexander the Great.

According to Encyclopedias I have consulted, ancient Macedonia was well
within the borders of present day Greece. The territory north of that
was called "Paeonia" on these maps. Later (from the middle ages or so)
the term "Macedonia" has changed to denote a larger geographical area,
today embracing parts of Greece, Albania(?), Bulgaria and the (X) Yugo
republic of Macedonia.

Is this correct ?

>
>   In a modern, post-industrial revolutionary context, the
>Macedonians never have had an independent state, but they

Has there ever been an independent Macedonia since they lost to the Romans ?

>
>Domination:
>language now taught in mainstream educational institutions across
>the world including Australia.
>

According to Encyclopedias, there is indeed a Macedonian language,
"closely related to Bulgarian".

Written Macedonian is not known before 1790. Correct ?
How long has spoken Macedonian been regarded a distinct language ?
How close is it to Bulgarian ? Some label it a "dialect" of
Bulgarian. Is this unfounded ?

Did the Macedonians around the time of Alexander speak Greek or Macedonian ?
Those who fought the Romans ?

>   Macedonians akin to many other nations, recently have openly
>   This vicious request provoked waves of shock among Macedonians
>in every corner of the world where they live.
>
>   The demand for a name-change means a decee of their own death as
>a people with a culture, language, historical heritage and identity.


What is your history ? I've seen everything from:
	* We are a south-slavic people, talking a south slavic language
	  We don't need to "steal" anyone's (Greeces) history, we
	  have our own.
	(this standpoint agrees that ancient Macedonia was Greek, but
	 claims "that's stone age, Today's Macedonians are us!")
to:
	* We are the descendants of Alexander, Greek has been trying
	  to Hellenize us for 2500 years and is now occupying southern
	  Macedonia>
	(this standpoint makes claims on soil and history the Greeks
	 regard as theirs)

I'd like to know what ordinary Macedonians, Historians and Politicians
have to say here.


Again, only 'Slav'-Macedonian answers please, maybe I'll make a Greek
questionaire later ...

Thanks,

Tomas.
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Adelaide Newspaper abused by 'Ellinika Nea'
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:41:54 GMT

sachz@montebello.ecom.unimelb.EDU.AU (SAS) writes:


>   As Australian-Macedonians we express our concerns about an
>article placed in the Greek newspaper, "Ellinika Nea". Not only
>..... 
>   The article in "Ellinika Nea" quotes:-
>..... 
> .....

   Does this newspaper exist?  I've never heard of this name before.
   If it exists, how many readers does it have? 10, 20, how many?

-- 
 *> Panos
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: malenovi@plains.NoDak.edu (Malenovic Nikola V.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: DISCRIMINATION OF SERBS IN CROATIA
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:22:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.20246
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

[ courtesy of S.M. ]
-----------------------------------------------------------
     CROATIA - ASSASINS OF SERBS AASQUITTED OF CRIMES

    Belgrade, Sept 7th - In the former Yugoslav republic of
Croatia, thousands of indictments are being brought against
Serbian nationality citizens to force them to move out,
writes the Belgrade daily Politika on Monday.
    Politika says that 20,000 - 30,000 Serbs have so far
been indicted for "armed rebellion, threats to territorial
integrity, war crimes, or participation in hostile armies"
and this number is rising.
    On the other hand there have been only insignificant
number of trials of Croatian army members for war crimes
over Serbian population, Politika points out and adds that
such a trial often turns into a farce.
    A drastic example of such a farse, writes Politika, is
an event of a month ago that has been disclosed only now
when the assasins of Serbian family Zec were acquited and
released.
    In December 1991, Croatian reserve policemen Igor
Mikola, Sinisa Ramac, Nebojsa Hodak and Muniv Suljuc, with
Snezana Zivanovic also present, assasinated in Zagreb
Mihajlo Zec, his wife Mirjana and 12-year old daughter
Aleksandra. The assassins pleaged guilty at a court of
investigation.
    Public prosecutor Tihomir Grubesic, after this sentence
of acquital, has quitted government service. He did not want
to explain why, but observed that "little is being done in
Croatia for the state ruled by law to be established".

[ source: TANJUG news agency ]

-----------------------------------------------------------
From: lolonis@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Panagiotis Lolonis)
Subject: Re: Macedonia
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 05:00:46 GMT

sk@groo.sunbim.be (Sasa Konecni) writes:
>(The maps on the covers show the Northern and
>Western boundaries of Macedonia at the time of Philip II, as
>shown in "Macedonia"-General Editor M.B. Sakellariou,
>published by Ekdotike Athenon S.A., Athens, 1983, p. 118. The
>boundaries show that modern day Skopje was included in
>Macedonia even at that time.)

I am not sure whether Skopje was under the Macedonian rule at that
time but I would agree with the rest of the statement.  It is well known that
Philip II had conquered Dardans, who lived in the region of the modern Republic
of Skopje.

I would appreciate it, if you would provide us with few names of
Macedonian cities and settlements that existed in the territory of the
modern Republic of Skopje before Philip II.  Some archaeological evidence
that verifies such assertions would be very welcome.  I would like to see
names of settlements in the region of Skopje that were considered as 
Macedonian before Philip II. 

>Sasa.

Panos Lolonis
U. of Iowa
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Germany's Yugoslav Policy by Nora Beloff  - Part 1
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1992 11:13:37 -0500

Can you please say where and when the Beloff article was published? Thanks.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek
From: 8800529@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: Ancient and modern Macedonians
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 00:44:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.084805.3141@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>Goce Naumoski (naumoski@cs.ruu.nl) writes:
>>PS. Ancient Macedonians were no Greeks, but simply Macedonians. The Greeks
>>    for almost 2500 years are trying to Helenize them and are using
>>    different tools, but from the 20st years of the 19th century their
>>    methods are becoming worse and worse. They have almost done it in
>>    the Aegean Macedonia, and now in 1992 they are playing the last game,
>>    the final game. But the last game is a little different, the strategy
>>    is changed, there is enough Helenization, so let them be anything else.
>>    And for the Macedonians it is now: TO BE OR NOT TO BE.
>
>I don't care very much whether the ancient Macedonians were Greeks
>or not;

	Oh, so all those hundreds of lines you posted in atempt to enlighten
us about the non Greekness of Ancient Makedoniens is of no relevence ?!?!
Maybe it's because it's a failed argument.


>	 it bears little relevance to the issue of present-day
>Macedonia, but I would like you to clarify your position. Do you
>suggest that the modern Macedonians are related to the ancient
>Macedonians more than any other people in that area?

	It seems that a northern neibours want to think they are.
Actualy their politicians think so. Oh and an answer, YES.
And another note Moder Makedoniens are Greek.


>
>-- 
>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
	GEorge

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek
From: varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine)
Subject: Re: The Macedonian Question and the Versaille Peace Treaty (1919)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:28:11 GMT

sachz@montebello.ecom.unimelb.EDU.AU (SAS) writes:


>THE MACEDONIAN QUESTION AND THE VERSAILLE PEACE TREATY

(text deleted)

> - From the "Did You Know" facts file.

>Makedonsko Abstralisko Prijeatelstvo, 1 Sep 92.

Once more, we don't need your propaganda pieces from your neighborhhod
newspaper.  Posting articles from an unknown source (at least to 99.999% of us)
is not going to do any good to your cause.  The "macedonian" propaganda
machine must be in pretty bad shape to repost their own pieces.  For the
last time, we don't need this unfounded propaganda on the network.  At least
not in soc.culture.greek.  Don't you understand that you are not
persuading anybody?
-- 
Constantinos Varnavas
University of Illinois
From: LMWHITE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Lois White)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,rec.travel,rec.misc
Subject: Re: Question about use of Cyrillic alphabet
Date: 6 Sep 92 19:56:01 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <5SEP199222442064@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov>, packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov
(Charles Packer) says:
>
>I was at the Yugoslavia embassy here in Washington getting
>a visa stamp in my passport and I noticed Yugoslavian newspapers
>on the table in the lobby. They used the Cyrillic alphabet. Is
>this typical? Should I not bother to learn to read
>Serbo-Croatian in the Roman alphabet? I'm having enough trouble
>memorizing how to =say= commonplace phrases. I wouldn't want to
>waste time learning to =read= them in Roman if they don't even
>use Roman.
In "former" Yugoslavia, here's the breakdown:  "northern" part =
Slovenia, Croatia, parts of Bosnia-Hercegovina all use Roman alphabet
and the rest = Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, other parts of Bosnia-
Hercegovina use Cyrillic...so the answer to your question is "yes"
you might consider learning both.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8629 soc.culture.greek:8665
From: pef@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Panayotis Fouliras)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Vera offers thoughts on Macedonia crisis
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:15:35 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <1992Sep9.094200.10134@eua.ericsson.se> osstlm@eua.ericsson.se (Tomas Lundstrom) writes:

>I have a few questions on this intricate issue of Macedonia:
>(Please no Greeks, I want to hear the 'Slav' Macedonians version)
[..]

But why did you post this to soc.culture.greek, then?

>Thanks,

>Tomas.

You are welcome

Panayotis
--
UUCP:      pef@qmw-dcs.uucp  | Computer Science Dept    | "H Rwmania
Internet:  pef@dcs.qmw.ac.uk | QMW University of London |  kai an
JANET:     pef@uk.ac.qmw.dcs | Mile End Road            |  eperasen,
Voice:     +44 71 975 5220   | London E1 4NS            |  anthei kai
FAX:       +44 81 980 6533   |                          |  ferei kai
Cellphone: Too expensive to fit                            allon"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: keserovi@elc2.lat.oz.au (Goran KESEROVIC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: The goal of an intervention
Date: 8 Sep 92 03:21:47 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <1992Sep7.191310.23717@cs.yale.edu> pavlovic-milan@CS.YALE.EDU (Milan Pavlovic) writes:
>
>
>Didn't the UN envoy Cyrus Vance warn against the recognition of Izetbegovic's
>B&H before a final political solution for it is agree on by ALL the sides?
>And then didn't the German led EC go ahead and recognize B&H anyway, which
>then ignited the war in B&H?
>
>Sharon, it is people like you and other Westerners who urged the recognition
>of Izetbegovic's B&H who are primarily at fault for the war there.
>The West should be ashamed for what it did, because it needlessly unleashed
>a civil war in a country that could have found a peaceful, political, 
>solution to its problems, only if it had pressed Mr. Izetbegovic to find a
>diplomatic solution.
>
>Milan


   The only people to blame for the war in Bosna are the Serbs (leaders
   especially)....they were the ones who started the war.....they were
   and are the ones that are destroying Bosna.....they are the ones 
   that the ENTIRE world has blamed for the war.
  
   And here you are trying to lay the blame it on the West because you
   have been brainwashed by your people to believe that there is a 
   German-Vatican-EC-UN-Muslim-You_Name_it  conspiricy against Serbia.

   And what about Slovenia ?? The Serb-Chetnik barbarians attacked 
   Slovenia MONTHS before anyone recognised them......

   And what about Croatia ??  The Serb-Chetnik barbarians attacked 
   Croatia MONTHS before anyone recognised Croatia.....

   You can keep on trying to make excuses for Serbia's crimes, but they
   will fool no one except other brainwashed Serbs.
From: pavlovic-milan@CS.YALE.EDU (Milan Pavlovic)
Subject: Re: WHO'S THE BIGGER NAZI?
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 17:24:03 GMT

In article <1584@lysator.liu.se> svedja@lysator.liu.se (Dejan Ilic) writes:

>Lokking on your text you remind me of Ustasha & Chetnicks techniques during WWII and their way of haveing fun. And looking on you name i would say that you are a Croat. And you can always discuss about the theme "Who is the war criminal in a civil war".

Oh, I see, Serbian Chetniks = Croat Ustasha.  What a marvelous student you must
have been in communist dictator Tito's schools.

Milan
From: aim@csc.liv.ac.uk (Antonis Michailidis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: The Macedonian star
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:29:26 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University

Article: 700 of soc.culture.yugoslavia
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Time to Get Rid of the Nation-State? (was: Re: THE NEW BULLY OF THE BALKANS [ Part 4 from 4 ])
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:19:17 GMT
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis) writes:
: mirsip@risky.ecs.umass.edu (Ivan Popstefanija) writes:
: 
: >  A state with garanteed individual rights  and  NOT garanteed rights
: >for nations is, IMO, solution for multi ethnic society, but that is not
: >the way the Serbs, Croats or Slovenians see it. What can one do?  
: 
:  Leave them alone.  They were living without such problems in the past.
Just like asking USA to leave EUROPE alone in WW2.

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
From: varvel@plains.NoDak.edu (Andrew Varvel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Croats give Muslims ultimatum
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:12:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.20209
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


CROATS GIVE MUSLIMS ULTIMATUM
(from the Fargo Forum, Monday, Sept. 7, 1992 (Fargo, North Dakota))

Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzegovina (AP)

In another move pushing Bosnia toward partition, Croat forces broke with the
mainly Muslim Bosnian army Sunday and threatened to drive Muslim forces from
territory around Sarajevo.

The move appeared to further weaken the Bosnian governmnet , and it
tightened the vise on the Serb-besieged capital, where shelling resumed
Sunday night after a day of relative calm in the 6-month-old civil war.

There were no immediate reports of casualties.  But for the 24-hour period
ending at noon Sunday, the Ministry of Health said 10 people had died and
118 were wounded across the republic.  More than 8,000 people -- some
estimates say 35,000 -- have died since the war began.

Sarajevo's already desparate living conditions worsened when the Serbs cut
off the city's main reservoir.  And presaging the long, hard winter to came,
teh first snow fell in the surrounding mountains.

Bosnian President Alija Izetbegovic has called for a unified, independent
country.  But Serbs and Croats have taken control of most of Bosnia since
the fighting broke out after a February referendum approved secession from
the Serb-dominated Yugoslavia.  

Velimir Maric, president of the Croatian militia for Sarajevo, said Croatian
headquarters in Mostar, southwest of Sarajevo, had given the Bosnian
government until today to withdraw from six suburbs around Sarajevo.

"After the ultimatum expires we will use all available measures to liberate
Croatian territories," Maric told reporters in Stup, a western suburb
controlled by Croats.  "That could imply a conflict."

"Lots of blood will be lost ending one state and lots of blood will be lost
creating one state," he said.  "No one who lives in Bosnia-Herzegovina is a
Bosnian.  They are Croats, Muslims, and Serbs.  First of all, I am a Croat."

The six suburbs, most of whose populations are predominantly Croat, were
Stup, Bare, Azic, Otes, Dagladi and parts of Nedzarici, all communities
along the city's western front line.

Bosnian government forces are surrounded on all sides by Serb fighters, and
the government has relied on these suburbs for much of its fuel, weapons,
and food, which arrive via Croat-Serb cooperation.

Mustafa Hajrulahovic, commander of Bosnian forces in Sarajevo, reacted to
the Croat ultimatum by saying: "We have to live in one republic, which is
un-cantonized.  If they don't agree with that, we will fight until we
liberate our territory."

Maric said he would not help the Bosnian army try to break the siege of
Sarajevo unless he received orders from his commander, Mate Boban -- the
leader of ethnic Croats in Bosnia and an ally of President Franjo tudjman of
Croatia.

Maric, a 40-year-old food inspector before the war, read from a statement on
stationary of the Croatian headquarters in Mostar.
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Macedonia
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:48:52 GMT

sk@groo.sunbim.be (Sasa Konecni) writes:

>Hier is some history concerning this matter.


>     The Greeks seem obsessed with the idea of racial purity
>when no such purity exists. 
 
 I haven't seen a single Greek being obsessed with such thing.
 You tend to repeat the same crap sasa.  You are rediculing yourself ...

>     By Robert Browning "The Slav invasions and settlements of
>the late sixth and seventh centuries resulted in the expulsion
>or extirpation of the original population of peninsula Greece.
>Consequently the medieval and modern Greeks, ...are not the
>descendants of the Greeks of antiquity, and their Hellenism is
>artificial. The majority of the Greek speaking people lived in
>Constantinopole and Asia Minor, and were not so affected by
>the Slavs; .....

 I guess, this explains why the Greek revolution started from
 Peloponesos... 

 Then, hearing from Sasa speaking about artificial Hellenism,
 and his supposed Macedonian civilization, I think is
 rather amusing that insulting ...


>Bibliography:

>THE REAL MACEDONIANS by John Shea
>	Chapter 7:  Macedonia: A Language/Culture Mix

>(The maps on the covers show the Northern and
>Western boundaries of Macedonia at the time of Philip II, as
>shown in "Macedonia"-General Editor M.B. Sakellariou,
>published by Ekdotike Athenon S.A., Athens, 1983, p. 118. The
>boundaries show that modern day Skopje was included in
>Macedonia even at that time.)

 Yes, I know.  The place around Skop(l)ja is full of such historical
 evidence. (here, add some laughs ...)

>Sasa.


-- 
---> Panos Tamamidis
     University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: wickerhauser-victor@CS.YALE.EDU (Victor Wickerhauser)
Subject: Re: Yu
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 06:18:19 GMT

In article <18pqpeINNa6k@aludra.usc.edu> draskovi@usc.edu (Zoran Draskovic) writes:
>        KATIMARINI: GERMAN-ORIGIN ARMS IN CROATIA
...
>   'Stinger' missiles arrived in Zadar.
...
>5. 9 November 1991: Two boats arrived in Karlovac from
>   Germany carrying aboard 'Stinger' missiles.
...
>- 'Stinger' missiles 1,010 pieces,

Aren't Stinger antiaircraft missiles made in America? 

Victor
From: s902211@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Zoran Kalenic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: WHO'S THE BIGGER NAZI?
Date: 6 Sep 92 05:49:53 GMT

dmatic@athena.mit.edu (Davor Matic) writes:

>Mr. Zoran Kalenic, you just refuse to get it, don't you?  Just like the most
>of the Serbs that find it more likely that there is a world wide conspiracy
>against Serbian people than to accpet the fact that their policies are 
>simply fasist and discriminatory and can't be understood or defended by a
>single normal person on this planet.  Well, I'm afraid I can't help you
>there at all, and any furtehr discussion seems pointless.  

>Regards,
>--- Davor

Yes, it does seem pointless since i have not mentioned Serbian policies in
any of my posts and your blabber and one sided views are simply not worth
discussing.

Zoran Kalenic.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: dmatic@athena.mit.edu (Davor Matic)
Subject: Re: WHO'S THE BIGGER NAZI?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 21:35:53 GMT

In article <14358@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au>, s902211@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Zoran Kalenic) writes:
|> dmatic@athena.mit.edu (Davor Matic) writes:
|> 
|> >Mr. Zoran Kalenic, you just refuse to get it, don't you?  Just like the most
|> >of the Serbs that find it more likely that there is a world wide conspiracy
|> >against Serbian people than to accpet the fact that their policies are 
|> >simply fasist and discriminatory and can't be understood or defended by a
|> >single normal person on this planet.  Well, I'm afraid I can't help you
|> >there at all, and any furtehr discussion seems pointless.  
|> 
|> >Regards,
|> >--- Davor
|> 
|> Yes, it does seem pointless since i have not mentioned Serbian policies in
|> any of my posts and your blabber and one sided views are simply not worth
|> discussing.
|> 
|> Zoran Kalenic.

You certainly have defended Serbian policies which I accused to be Nazistic
by saying thet they are not.  Of course my views are one sided, they come
from my side.  You represent the other side in this discussion.  I might be
blebbering in your mind, but that is probably one of the smallest misconceptions
that you have.

Regards,
--- Davor

Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8540 soc.culture.greek:8538 eunet.politics:1215
From: rahman@ces.cwru.edu (Rahman A. Soomro)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Rain Relief Fund
Date: 9 Sep 1992 19:59:19 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: easy.ces.cwru.edu


Dear friends,

Recent rains in Pakistan have caused devastating effects on the 
daily life of the Pakistani people. Scores of people have lost there
lives and more than a million have been homeless.

	I appeal to you to help our brothers and sisters in need
and donate some money to help them. Please send your contribution
(tax deductible) with your name and also I request you to collect 
donations from any source -- your colleagues at work, friends, business
associates, customers, persons from any nationalities and backgrouds
to help people in trouble. 

	We are tying you help suffering peoples, who are suffering
from disease and malnutrition.

Please mail your contributions to:

Pakistan Rain Relief Fund
4105 Providence drive
St. Charles, MO 63304
USA


Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.turkish