HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Reply-To: steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:22:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.135011.8792@ncsu.edu>
steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.173543.3626@ncsu.edu>
>steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>>In article <7w!ngya@lynx.unm.edu> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>>>steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>>>>>> CAD8025@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca "Problem Reporting, A" 
>>>>>> ACAD8059@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca Mike Mychalkiw 
>>>>>> ADVI8721@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca advisor's utility disk 
>>I have attempted to contact the three above-listed accounts, but have had
>>no reply.  It's possible that the votes have sailed off into the aether.
>I just emailed my third request for information to the above three accounts.
>Obviously, I have not yet received a reply to the two previous requests.
>Again, this could be due to an email snafu.  In the event that I'm 
>experiencing problems with the email system, could someone else please be
>so kind as to contact these three accounts or act as a go-between for me?

Belay that request.  I have received email from ACAD8059@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca
Mike Mychalkiw, and he claims that the other two votes come from two other
people.  However, he refuses to identify these two other "people".  I have
not received responses from these two other "people", even though their
accounts have received my email, as Mike Mychalkiw stated in his email. 

I will let you form your own conclusions about these votes.  Furthermore,
I consider what Mike Mychalkiw calls a "Witch Hunt" to be closed.  

As for the need for corrective action for this example of *possible*
vote-fraud, no workable recommendation immediately comes to mind.  This is 
one of those things that makes vote-taking *very* difficult.  My hat goes
off to those of you who have to deal with these problems frequently.

Steve Garnier - DoD #00000005 - '79 XS1100SF w/ 157K+ miles and *climbing*
KotF (Flame),  KotAM (Anecdotal Motorcycle),  The Daemon's Byte
       Contrary to popular belief, I am not the Devil's advocate...
                  ...but I am his speech writer.
From: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Spaf & Dave Lawrence? (was Re: 3-week discussion period? (was: RFM: rec.arts.erotica))
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:36:41 GMT

In <0105011F.atoquh@dragon.enigami.mv.com> cory@enigami.mv.com (Cory Kempf) writes:


>As some of you may have noticed, there is a debate raging about changing
>the moderator of a newsgroup.  Without going into specifics of the
>newsgroup in question, or the reasons for the change, in the course
>of discussion, it came about that Gene Spafford & Dave Lawrence's
>oppinions should be sought:


>	There is a discussion going on in news.groups about removing the
>	moderator of a group and replacing him with another.  (There is
>	some dissatisfaction with the performance of the current moderator.)

>	Is there a specified proceedure for changing moderators?
>	Assuming that there is no specific proceedure in place,
>		do you have any objections to the using the existing
>		RFD/CFV mechanism?
>	Assuming that the existing RFD/CFV mechanism were to be used and passed,

>To Spaf:

>		Would you make the change in the moderator's list?

>To Dave:

>		Would you post the RFD/CFV & results in news.announce.newgroups?

>To both:

>	If your answer to either of the above questions in *NO*, would
>		you please explain why, and what would be necessary for your
>		cooperation in implimenting a change in moderator?

Please send this even though the rec.arts.erotica problem has apparently
been resolved.  It would be a good idea to get an "authoritative"
interpretation of the guidelines.

--
Arthur L. Rubin: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (work) Beckman Instruments/Brea
216-5888@mcimail.com 70707.453@compuserve.com arthur@pnet01.cts.com (personal)
My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of my employer.
Our news system is unstable; if you want to be sure I see a post, mail it.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Re: Would there happen to be a banking industry discussion newsgroup?
Organization: Echo Beach
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:42:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.134301.1723@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks) writes:
>
>I was looking for an alt.banking or misc.banking, but I could not find one.
>
>What is the closest newgroup to this?

Information about banks and credit cards is sometimes posted in
misc.consumers.

Nigel Allen


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles
From: shz@garage.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Organization: Office of 'Tude Licensing
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:19:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.162646.600@ncsu.edu>, steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
> Well, Seth, I just "grep'd" through the rec.motorcycle articles looking
> for "root", and the first mention in approximately 1200-1500 articles 
> was my above-referenced article.  Seems like 0% posts from root in that
> timeframe.  Of course, that doesn't mean "root" can't read.  Nor does it
> mean that "root" can't read/post news.groups.  But I do find the number
> to be impressively small.

My results are a bit different.

$ cd /usr/spool/news/news/groups
$ grep root *
48681:Super User <root@cassiopeia.rl.af.mil>
48763:Charlie Root <root@umvax.um.MY>
48933:Sterling IMD <root@imd.sterling.com>
48934:root@alaska.et.byu.edu System Operator
48953:Super User <root@cassiopeia.rl.af.mil>

- Roid
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Impropriety in soc.culture.tamil vote
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:52:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug9.032207.2986@wolves.uucp>, news@wolves.uucp (The Wolfe of the Den) writes:
> 
> If you really want to, you can ask each voter the simple question of
> "where you contacted by the vote-taker in private email during the vote
> period asking you for a yes vote."   (It is up to them to decide if they
> want to answer the question.)
> 

Playing devil's advocate, they may lie about it too especially if
they see that the group may be knocked down.

So you see the only way to make sure with reasonable certainty is to see
the vote emails. Now they can be forged too, but forging so many emails
CORRECTLY is not an easy job.

> There doesn't need to be so much shouting.  

I am not shouting.

> The answer can be determined
> quite easily with the available information.

I have to disagree with you here.

> -- 
> Usenet Net News Administrator @ The Wolves Den  (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
> news%wolves@cs.duke.edu     ...duke!wolves!news     "We don't need no
> There is a real person who watches this account.   stinking disclaimers"

Alok

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: It's time to clean up the hierachy, i.e. RFD on mass rmgrping
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:50:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.125929.23472@reks.uia.ac.be> slootman@nat2.uia.ac.be (Wim Slootmans) writes:
>peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>: There are plenty of useful groups that occasionally drop below this level.
>: I'd suggest a simpler rule: any group not getting an article in one year
>: be summarily dropped.

>This way dummy articles like: "Hey what's this newsgroup about",
>will keep the newsgroup alive!

Yes. So? It's not like it's a major disaster or anything.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: <None>
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:27:17 GMT
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <a_rubin.713723801@dn66>, a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin) writes:
...
> Please send this even though the rec.arts.erotica problem has apparently
> been resolved.  It would be a good idea to get an "authoritative"
> interpretation of the guidelines.

	In email to me, Dave said that since the vote involves an individual
(as opposed to a group) he doesn't think there should be an institutionalized
method.  He further stated that he knew several sysadmins who would rather such
things be done on a case by case basis.

	I (as you all know) feel differently.  Readers of the group are far
more knowledgeable about the subject than sysadmins are likely to be.  You also
get sysadmin sympathy for "one of their own".  I know, I'm NEWS admin at our
site (not this one).  Sure we take flak from flakes :).  But when a majority of
the people say "it's time to go", I'll go.
	Or the Boss fires me :).

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.bicycles
From: tr@samadams.princeton.edu (Tom Reingold)
Subject: Re: RESULT: rec.bicycles reorganization passes
Organization: Noo Joizy, USA
Distribution: na
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:03:47 GMT

There were many calls for discussion and much discussion, all over the
course of MONTHS.  The entire procedure was done by the book.  You guys
picked a poor time to complain.  Now you have no one to whom you can
direct your flames except yourselves.
--
        Tom Reingold
        tr@samadams.princeton.edu  OR  ...!princeton!samadams!tr
        "Warning: Do not drive with Auto-Shade in place.  Remove
        from windshield before starting ignition."
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.transit
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:40:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.014554.26162@nmsu.edu>, dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu (Dan Tasman) writes:
> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
> 
> > how 'bout misc.transp.alt, or misc.alt.transp or misc.transp.planning
> 
> It would go against a .planning heirarchy that's currently in the alt area.   
> Currently there's alt.planning.urban, with the intent of expanding it (if  
> there's traffic to warrant it) to alt.planning.transportation,  
> alt.planning.housing, and so on.  If there's enough interest, a discussion for  
> creating a soc.planning, sci.planing or talk.planning heirarchy would be  
> considered.
> 
> I'm surprised to see RFD - whatever.transit messages go into virtually every  
> group except alt.planning.urban ...

I wasn't aware of the existence of alt.planning.urban, as we don't get
alt groups at this site.  The RFD went to groups which have recently had
large amounts of traffic on transportation methods, including a few which
are on the face not obvious (sci.environment, can.general).

If people feel that an alt group, rather than a mainstream group should
be created, by all means speak up.  At this point I am favoring the name
misc.transportation as it seems that most people prefer it.  I am not yet
convinced, though, that there is enough interest to warrant a group.

-- 
/\        Ilana Stern DoD#009 | Whoever first said, "Things are seldom as they 
  \_][    ilana@ncar.ucar.edu | seem," was wrong.  Things are usually as they
      \_______________________| seem.  Otherwise, they wouldn't seem that way.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: CFV: sci.virtual-worlds.apps
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 11:04:00 GMT

In article <Bt98Lo.Du2@uunet.uu.net> cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) writes:
>1st CALL FOR VOTE:  SCI.VIRTUAL-WORLDS.APPS

I'm DEFINITELY spending too much time in the real world. This one slipped
right by. I can (barely) buy the argument that virtual reality stuff goes
in sci instead of comp, but this one is *definitely* a comp group.

Sheesh.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz)
Subject: Re: Much to your relief...
Reply-To: pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 14:41:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.141912.3439@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
> In article <1992Aug13.142759.21077@dsd.es.com>, pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz) writes:
> > What are you talking about? Please use more descriptive subjects.
> 
> 	Well, it's right there in front of you:
> 
> > In article <1992Aug12.172545.1596@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>, bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
> >> 	George is going to conduct a straw poll to see about r.a.e and I mailed
> >> Dave Lawrence to ask him to comment on whether the current RFD/CFV guidelines
> >> are sufficient to remove/replace a moderator, so I'll keep quiet until we have
> >> the results from these two fact finding missions.
> 
> 	Which part didn't you understand?

All of it except for "r.a.e". The subject line "Much to your relief"
could apply to any newsgroup, and since the text doesn't explicitly
mention the name of the newsgroup, this posting is meaningless.
Postings like this only defeat my carefully crafted KILL file. I
repeat: please use more decriptive subjects.
-- 

   -paul	pmartz@dsd.es.com
		Evans & Sutherland
From: ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey)
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator (was: RFM: rec.arts.erotica)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:40:41 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ben Bailey's Home..Tampa Fl.

cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) writes:
> 
> What about a third party stepping in?
> 
> A newsgroup with which I was affiliated was nominally sponsored by
> the university lab for which I was working.  Eventually I left the
> lab but continued running the newsgroup, which proved to be quite
> successful and even integral to the growth of our scientific field.

<stuff deleted>

> 
> Bob Jacobson

Bob,

While it's nice to know that someone such as yourself is willing to 
carry on even after you've left the group, this doesn't address the
issue of "There should be some method for removing a non-working 
moderator."  Until this and the issue of being able to change a 
moderated group to unmoderated is addressed, we are operating under
an incomplete charter.  The charter must be changed to reflect real
world situations.  In a real word situation, while there will be many
people such as yourself, there will also be 'THE FEW' who will hold
their group hostage to their desires.    

Ben
--
Ben Bailey                 ben@bailey.uucp -- bailey!ben@uunet.uu.net
12210 Shady Forest Dr.     ben@bailey.tscs.com
Riverview, Fl. 33569       -- The main thing is to keep the main
813-677-5021                  thing the main thing.  Mainly. 
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: slootman@nat2.uia.ac.be (Wim Slootmans)
Subject: Re: It's time to clean up the hierachy, i.e. RFD on mass rmgrping
Organization: U.I.A.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:59:29 GMT

peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
: In article <ali1H4m9_8@atlantis.psu.edu> barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr) writes:
: >As a substitute, i'd suggest if a newsgroup hasn't had more than one
: >article every 2 days for one year that it be up for a re-vote.
: 
: There are plenty of useful groups that occasionally drop below this level.
: I'd suggest a simpler rule: any group not getting an article in one year
: be summarily dropped.
: -- 
: Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032

This way dummy articles like:
"Hey what's this newsgroup about",
will keep the newsgroup alive!

WS
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Wim Slootmans       elektrona posxto: slootmans@uia.ac.be       |
| Antverpeno, Belgio                    slootmans@banuia51.bitnet |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc
Subject: Re: Bogus moderated groups (was Re: changing the moderator...)
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:20:08 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher) writes:

>lvirden@cas.org (Larry W. Virden) presents a long list of moderated groups
> on his system with no traffic:
>>comp.graphics.digest ... comp.society.women ... soc.human-nets

>All rmgrouped over a year ago.

>Others:  comp.ai.digest was rmgrouped some time ago; there's no such
>group as "comp.dcom.telecom.digest"; comp.sys.sun was rmgrouped after
>the comp.sys.sun.* reorg; rec.arts.sf-reviews was rmgrouped when it
>was replaced by .sf.reviews.

>I don't mean to be especially rude, Larry, but if you can't keep up
>with rmgroup messages (or read news.announce.newgroups, which also
>announces reorgs and removals), you might consider running a
>checkgroups script from time to time.

I don't mean to be especially stupid, but first, how does one find
out what the legal newsgroups are? And second how does one determine
what is a legal {rm|ad}group control message? 

Maybe it's only here in Japan, but when I started getting news a
year or so ago I got lots of control messages that tell me to do
this or tell me to do that, and then soon after I did it, all kinds
of weird things would happen like hundreds of articles going to junk,
etc. So my policy has been to just adgroups as I can't figure out
what is a real control message and what is bogus. 

I also have an some kind of control something or other comes in from
time to time and wipes out half the comments in /usr/lib/news/newsgroups 
so I find it necessary to keep a backup copy so I can restore it....

Any ideas?

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: dohle@vax2.concordia.ca (Gordon Dohle)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Boring! (was the great soc.culture.tamil.debate
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:46:00 GMT
Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <2A90FC58.6E8B@tct.com>, chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes...
>"We have one gilly.  Repeat: We have one gilly."
>-- 

So what's a "gilly"?
If it means 'guilty', I plead innocent.


Gordon
Dohle@vax2.Concordia.ca
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:20:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: i88.1992Aug20.182000.27131
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL

In article <1992Aug20.162646.600@ncsu.edu> steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.174547.11313@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>
>shz@garage.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug18.172348.10326@ncsu.edu>, 
>>steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>>> Maybe I should have mentioned the vote from "root@alaska.et.byu.edu System
>>> Operator", eh?  How many people do you know that regularly read news and post
>>> someone who does.
>>Lots of people read news as root.  Just grep through your news spool
>>directories!  Back in '83 when I read news on UNIX boxes that I was
>>developing I never bothered to give myself a login and just used root.
>
>Well, Seth, I just "grep'd" through the rec.motorcycle articles looking
>for "root", and the first mention in approximately 1200-1500 articles 
>was my above-referenced article.  Seems like 0% posts from root in that
>timeframe.  Of course, that doesn't mean "root" can't read.  Nor does it
>mean that "root" can't read/post news.groups.  But I do find the number
>to be impressively small.

Well, perhaps you've heard the phrase "God rides a Harley"?  Looks
like root rides a Harley, too.
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
George Bush claims to have neglected domestic issues in favor of foreign policy.
    Looking at Iraqi civilians, I'm glad we didn't have his full attention.
From: jdc@naucse.cse.nau.edu (John Campbell)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.graphics.gnuplot
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:26:14 GMT


 In article <23387@oasys.dt.navy.mil> hendrix@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dane Hendrix) writes:
>While I use gnuplot and would enjoy more contact with other developers
>and users, I haven't seen much traffic on the mailing list that this 
>group would augment/replace.  I question whether there would be 
>sufficient traffic to justify a separate group.
> 
My mail box seems quite active these days.  Also, there is the bug-gnuplot
mailing list with nearly as much traffic as info-gnuplot.  Additionally,
some people (like me) prefer not to subscribe directly to mailing lists
so I would anticipate an increase in traffic if the newsgroup were
established.  Discussions on the mailing list to form a news group have
gone on now for over a year.

From article <1992Aug11.182130.26299@puma.ATL.GE.COM>, by rsnyder@atl.ge.com (Bob Snyder):
> Wouldn't this be better off under the gnu.* hierarchy?
> 
No, I don't think so.  The "gnu" in gnuplot was put there before FSF
started gnuing.  An argument can be made to have the gnu project change
their name, but I don't think it will win out.  ;-) 

More importantly, the gnuplot authors did not want a copyleft on their
product and have not offered it to FSF for distribution.  It remains
distributed and maintained outside the GNU effort.  Hence, it would
not appropriate to place it under the gnu hierarchy.



From article <1992Aug7.232539.4927@uunet.uu.net>, by d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart):
>> NAME:   comp.graphics.gnuplot
>
>comp.graphics.* is for computer graphics, not software packages.  I think
>comp.apps.gnuplot would be a more appropriate name.  An alternative would
>be comp.apps.gnuplot.bugs and comp.apps.gnuplot.info or comp.apps.gnuplot.d.
>I prefer a single newsgroup at first with the option to bifurcate in the
>future if the need arises.
>
Well, what about comp.graphics.avs?  I think comp.graphics.gnuplot
makes the most sense, as the comp.graphics hierarchy is already well
known and looking for a graphics newsgroup under comp.apps would not
be intuitive (at least to me).
>
>The mailing list may be discontinued or moved.
>
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles.racing,rec.motorcycles.dirt,alt.motorcycles.harley
From: shz@garage.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Organization: Office of 'Tude Licensing
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:44:18 GMT

> In article <1992Aug10.232639.7416@nas.nasa.gov> ciotti@wk42.nas.nasa.gov (Robert B. Ciotti) writes:
> +Here is the ack for the rec.motorcycles.harley vote received by
> +Mon Aug 10 16:21:04 PDT 1992
> +
> +laszlo@columbine.cs.colorado.edu Laszlo Nemeth 
> +laszlo@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu Laszlo Nemeth 

Anyone caught stuffing the ballot box should have *all* of their votes
disqualified.

- Roid
Newsgroups: news.groups