From: ckincy@mcs213h.cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy)
Subject: Re: Fraternal Reality From a Greek
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 08:32:15 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

In article <1992Nov20.195428.25027@rtsg.mot.com> gatchall@rtsg.mot.com (Scott W. Gatchall) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.193725.21918@umr.edu> ckincy@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov18.150031.21368@rtsg.mot.com> gatchall@rtsg.mot.com (Scott W. Gatchall) writes:

Hey, that's cool, you misattributed yourself.  Do you do this often?

Here's the proper attribution chain.

cpk = me
swg = Scott

>> cpk
>  swg
   cpk

Got it?

>>
>>As for Ted, he went to a school that doesn't have Greek letter organizations,
>>so your assumption is false.  As for me, I discovered early what Greek
>>life was like and decided not to play the game.  I think you're
>>off base.  Tag!  You're out!
>
>So, tell me, Einstein.  Did you attend each and ever college/university
>sampling each fraternity?  You based your observations off of one

Yes.  At public colleges in Missouri.  Oh, but why not private schools,
you ask?  Because [1] my parents are not millionaires, and can not 
finance my education at an expensive private school, [2] I had no 
desire to do the sort of butt-kissing it required to get full,
[and I do mean FULL] scholarships at these places, for I (nor my
family) had any money to spare, [3] I had no desire to be tens of
thousands of dollars in debt after getting a degree.  I nearly
attended Rose Hulman I. T., but could not afford it.  Other choices
were 3 of the 5 state universities, and the Columbia campus of the
University of Missouri.  Why did I choose the Rolla campus?  Because
I felt it provided the best CS degree program in the state.  And I
also felt that a small college environment was better for
my education.
 
Greek society was not even on the list of priorities.
 
It seems to me: someone has their priorities all horked.  I'm sure,
the first question *you* asked of prospective colleges was "How good
is your Greek System?"  Wasn't it?!  If so, I don't think
we need to carry this discussion any further.
 
>Greek system.  Based on interactions with various chapters of my 
>fraternity on different campuses ... I can assure you that there is a great degree 
>of difference.  You can bet the goals and aspirations of fraternity members
>at Stupid U. and Smart U. vary greatly.  For those who've studied

Please.  I'll put my school's academic record against your alma mater's
any old day.  Espcially vis-a-vis the costs of attending.

However, our Greek system is extremely dismal.  And I have heard from
friends that Greek society on other publically-funded campuses are
still pretty bad, if not as bad as ours.

>logic  ... here's a classic example of a hasty generalization which
>seems to be an infectious disease amongst anti-greeks.

Hasty generalization?  Hardly.  We're talking about one entity here.
Greek organization.  Greek society.  And the evils that come from
it.  How is that generalizing? 

There are no generalizations.  What you are attacking are imaginary
syllogisms.  We are not saying "Fraternities are evil; X is a member
of a fraternity, therefore X is evil."  That is not the message here.

That is the message *you* perceive, and for that I am sorry.  It's
not my fault that you don't know how to read for comprehension.  
I guess it's a failure in your education.  Not your fault, you under-
stand.  But, hey, you had a fine fraternity.  There can be no doubt
about that!

No, the message is that the Greek system is an obvious power game.
One that needs to be put to an end.  Unless everyone has an equal
chance to play.  Which they do not.  And.  That's.  It.  

We're not asking that the Greek system be abolished.  Granted, it
would make some of us happier that people didn't need to have their
egos stroked by minions of the fraternity system, but we would be
happy to see two little reforms instituted in the Greek system.
[1] no hazing; [2] no discrimination.  Period.  That means, no 
denial of membership because X is a _________.  

As a bonus, we're even asking you to do it voluntarily.  For your
own good.  Because a fascist administration may get just a little too
upset at you, and, *whoosh*, no more Greek system.  Wouldn't that be
a shame?

The bad behaviour of Greek society reflects badly upon academia.
And the harmful things it does harms the image of all college students
everywhere.  It needs to clean up its act.  Now.

cpk