HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Grep'ing the Armorial
Date: 16 Nov 92 00:55:56 GMT


    Bertram wrote:
 DS> Would someone be kind enough to point me in the direction of
 DS> the program someone wrote specifically to do grep-style searches
 DS> of the armorial-I think it was for MS-DOS machines.

It's called ASFA, originally developed by Lord Brian O Seanachain in Trimaris; he's in the process of turning the project over to me. E-mail me your Snail Mail address (yeah, I know, I had it once, but I don't save such things) and I'll send you a copy of the latest version.

    Tadhg, Obelisk

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: esharp@sage.cc.purdue.edu (The Baker)
Subject: Help.
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: u.s
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:13:14 GMT


 I am interested in SCA, but I really don't know what it is.  My time is
fairly limited, so I was wondering what the different aspects of it require.
 As an ametuer military historian dealing with the 12'th to 16'th century, I
was wondering just what sort of "military" type activities are typical.  Is it
all tournments or do the kingdoms ever engage in full scale battles?  I am 
also learning the Highland Pipes, are there any pipers around?  Any help would
be great.  Is there anyone I could talk to here (Purdue) about it?

*******************************************************************************
Edwin Sharp********************************************************************
esharp@sage.cc.purdue.edu******************************************************
Brewer, Baker, Sir Walter Scott collector**************************************
Current search: Scott's _Border Minstrelsy_***********************************
******************************************************************************  *
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Subject: requiring groups to hold events
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 08:27:00 GMT

Sorry folks, my sense of self restraint is low late at night...

All this stuff begs the question of what a group is *for*.
I'm still working on my opinion about that one, but I am
more and more of the opinion that it is *not* to hold events
(which, as they currently generally exist, are one of the chief
sources of 'party in funny clothes' customs), nor to fulfill
beauracratic requirements.  (*anything* large enough to be a
management problem requires _some_ beaurcracy, sure, but the
*purpose* isn't the paperwork.)

The split seems to be between people who take reality as a given,
and people who take reality as a starting point.  Maybe groups
ought to exist as mechanisms to handle the inevitable friction
between the two ends of that continuum in a way that serves the
accomplishment of some subset of the Society's general objectives?
(recreating all of Western civilization pre-1600 is a tall order,
even for Carolingia. :)  So if a canton wants to do display, or
plays, or dance, or archery, or whatever as the thing it does
together, the structure of the group should serve reaching an
amiciable balance between the 'what are the rules?' and 'we can
make this *better*' types.

Events are only a very noticeable subset of the range of collective
objectives available within this Society; I see no reason to mandate
them.


Graydon
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Needles
Date: 19 Nov 1992 21:59:55 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <721953922.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:
>
> Good sir, is it necessary that the pig die to produce its bristles? 

Generally, as I understand it, pig bristle harvesting is part of the
slaughtering routine.  You scald the dead pig and then scrape its hide
(with the base of a brass candlestick, according to Dorothy Hartley)
and the bristles come out, along with the top layer of skin, and then
the pig can be skinned and the hide processed into leather.

I do not think I would want to try to extract the bristles from a live
pig, I think the pig would resent it quite a lot and take effective
action!!


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ghita@world.std.com (Susan Earley)
Subject: Re: AEthelmearc Coronet Tourney
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:45:43 GMT

David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>I was not there, but as it was reported to me Viscount Sir Bear of the Ax
>defeated Viscount Ingvar the Dismal in five hard-fought bouts to win the
>right to rule and name his lady (and fiance!) Mistress Judith his consort.
>So, Bear and Judith will be War Prince and Princess.  Carpe vitam!

>Hmmm...  this may mean a ROYAL wedding at Pennsic...

WAHOO!!!!!  Pennsic will be FUN next year!
(Judith used to live in my shire)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lady Margherita Alessia, called Ghita                          Susan Earley
Shire of Rokkehealdan, Middle                                  Brookfield, IL
ghita@world.std.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: haslock@rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Subject: Re: hot drinks
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 01:22:08 GMT


Where I grew up (in England), apple juice was not to be found anywhere although
cider was readily available at most 'off licences.' To translate into U.S. 
speak, cider was known to me as a fermented beverage. I note that today, I
can assuage my longing for the stuff by visiting Canada where cider also means
fermented fruit juice (usually but not necessarily apple).

Brewers should not that the production of fermented apple juice requires a lot
of acid in the juice and so store bought apple juice is not the best starting
point. There are a number of apple species that are intended for fermentation
only due to their high acid content. Crab apples may be used at a pinch to
balance the sweetness of eating apples.

As to hot drinks, I have read of the practice of quenching a red hot poker in
the tankard to warm the drink. However, this was also certainly in a work of 
fiction and so is somewhat doubtful as a common procedure.

	Fiacha
	Aquaterra, AnTir
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Subject: Re: hot drinks
Reply-To: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:22:43 GMT


In article <Bxx0J4.FvJ@access.digex.com>, corun@access.digex.com
(Corun MacAnndra) writes:

[discussion of cider and juice deleted]

> As a side note to the vintners on the Rialto, this is the perfect time to
> start a batch of long mead for the coming millenium. Seven years maturation
> is just about right, and your mead should be ready for opening New Year's
> Eve, 1999.

Excuse me, m'lord, but, while this is a great idea, I'm afraid I must
risk igniting yet another flame war by calling your attention to a most
common mistake you appear to be making here.

The last day of the current millenium is, as all should know, the same as
the last day of the twentieth century - December 31, 2000.  The first day
of the next century and the next millenium is January 1, 2001.  'Tis but
a simple matter of counting years on the calendar.

Of course, in another view, every day is the first day of a new
millenium!  :-)

	But don't let me spoil any parties - I'll probably celebrate
	the year 2000 as well as the new millenium.  (Any excuse for
	a party!)

				- - Steve

				boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Longways sets...
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:44:22

 "RS> A rule of thumb previously mentioned -- if the 
 "RS> dance is for a longways 
 "RS> set, it doesn't look period to many of us who have studied dance.  
We should clarify this one a bit.  The longways set (for as many as 
 will) where you face your partner, rather than standing side by side, 
 seems to be the post-period exemplar.  The version where each 
 couple stands side-by-side, facing "forward" has some pictures to back 
 it up.  Most pavans seem to run this 2nd way, for instance.  The 
 picture I'm thinking of is Italian, ren. period.
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Colin_Hart@mindlink.bc.ca (Colin Hart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Attires -Heraldry question
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:02:30 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

Can someone please help me with the following- Stags Antlers or Attires(?)
are they single or a pair? That is to say if you have a pair do you count one
pair or two singles? Sorry to post this here but my system does not carry the
SCA Heraldry net.
Colin MAckay of Balmaghie Lions Gate An Tir
From: hwt@bcarh11a.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: What's an event? (was Re: OOP Dance/fun period dances)
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:34:14 GMT
Reply-To: Henry.Troup@BNR.CA
Distribution: world
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Nov10.063457.15753@latcs1.lat.oz.au>,
pears@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Arnold N Pears) writes:
|>dance classes during the afternoon prior to the event. 

Do you mean Friday night, or Saturday afternoon?  I'm interested in
knowing what the assumptions that go into 'event' are in various places.
What I think I know:

Middle: events are generally all day Saturday, indoors, tourney, feast,
court, dancing
East: largely the same as the Middle
West: lots of weekend-long camping events with tourney but no feast (do
they dance?)

In this case, East and West don't include their non-contiguous principalities.
                        
Henry Troup - H.Troup@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
	     Only eleven more shopping days 'till St. Andrew's Day!
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: peer structure
Date: 23 Nov 1992 17:33:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <9211211348.aa23645@mc.lcs.mit.edu> SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon) writes:

>....  (If I ever become an Earl, I'm going to find out what an
>Ealdorman wore, and wear that, coronets be damned.)

I think that, that far back, the Ealdorman would have worn the most
beautiful and ornate clothes and jewelry he could get and afford (as
many have already remarked on this bridge).  He would also have been
surrounded by his large, well-armed following, and you would know he
was an Ealdorman because you knew who he was...or if you didn't, you
would damnwell soon learn.

How you are to afford all this gorgeous display in the middle of a
20th-century depression *I* don't know.  But good luck with it.



Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: habura@vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Authenticity vs. fantasy (long)
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:43:46 GMT
Distribution: world, na
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY

Doctor Peregrinus tells us about a recent experience trying to demonstrate
period woodworking at a Crown Tourney.

Hmmm. i have done similar things at events here in the East (not with the 
intention of demoing--with the intention of Getting That Embroidery Done
Before Twelfth Night) but without the period language. Most people at 
"general" events (and a Crown Tourney is general...it's note like an A&S
collegium, where you have a lot of motivated people. People are at Crown
to schmooze and to see who wins) will not be interested in your particular 
brand of art...they may want to see if you're selling it, but if they aren't
contemplating doing woodworking themselves they may not be interested in
how you're doing it.

Now, the question "If you're not selling it, why are you here?" is one I have
*never* heard. This may be an interkingdom difference. The assumption 
around here is that if you don't have a table/blanket and a cashbox about,
you aren't merchanting. You're doing the craft for the fun of it, and many,
many people do just that. 

Perhaps it would be beneficial to drop the period language if you're trying
to educate people about woodworking. Speaking personally, I tend to have
a lot of trouble understanding people who are using speech patterns I'm not 
used to; I'm mildly hard of hearing, and lose words right and left. Were you
and I to have the conversation you described above, I would have stopped
talking after two sentences and just watched you for a while, because I would
have understood maybe one word in three. 

Don't stop doing period crafts at events, though. It is one of the things
that really makes the SCA fun for me.

Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles the clerk)
Subject: Re: ye is the
Organization: Shire of Glaedenfeld
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:34:15 GMT

To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!

Xavier writeth, in response to no thing:
> scadians  it is time to wake and smell the coffee the word ye is
> pronounced the

I don't understand who Xavier intends to explain this to.  I have not
heard anybody mispronounce this word in the SCA in ten years.  (I have
seen this alphabetized as "y" in lists of merchants, but I've never
asked the merchants whether they pronounce their shops' names
correctly.) I was of the impression that most of us were already aware
of this amazing fact.  If this really is news to you, please read on -
I have a few corrections to point out.

In fact, Xavier's statement is misleading.  There really is a word "ye"
which is correctly pronounced "ye."

There were two distinct Middle English words, "ye" and "the." "Ye" is
the second person plural nominative pronoun, whereas "the" is the
definite article.  "The" was written either with a thorn, an edh, or a
t-h sequence.  Over the course of the fourteenth century, the edh more
or less vanished, and the thorn survived only in a few common words.
Moreover, the thorn, as Xavier mentions, started to look more and more
like a y.  With the introduction of printing, the font makers didn't
bother to cast separate characters for thorn, they just substituted y.
However, the words "the" and "ye" were usually distinguished by raising
the e when writeing "the" with y.

Xavier's claim that the thorn was a Norse letter is also misleading.
While the Norse did use it, the thorn is originally a runic character
from the futharc, which was used by all the early Germanic languages.
The character survived in English when the Roman alphabet was
introduced, since the Roman alphabet had no "th" letter.  The fact that
it also survived in other languages indicates parallel development, not
borrowing.
--
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: European vs American
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:08:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.213322.26910@u.washington.edu> lcatlett@carson.u.washington.edu (Lynn Catlett) writes:
>Is there hope for some (pfui--ALL, as long as we're
>dreaming) of these items to be videotaped/scanned/etc for 
>scholarly use?  All y'all curatorial types??

Since one of my 'specialties' seems to be How To Photograph in Little
or No Light'....

1.  Try to get permission to photograph the exhibits.  Promise not to
use flash.

2.  Using a lens hood, press the lens (and hood) against the glass.

3.  Expect relatively long exposures--remember that slower film is
finer grained.  To this end, you may want a camera with autoexposure
to very low light levels.  The Olympus OM-2 and OM-2n are good to
autoexposure out to about 2 minutes....

4.  If you *don't* get permission (but decide to proceed anyway...),
use as wide a wide-angle lens as you've got or wish to get.  That way,
you won't have to actually attempt to use the finder and can be much
more unobtrusive.  In this context, I would like to note that Vivitar
makes a 19-mm focal length lens that goes for about $115 from the
discount mail-order houses. This lens has a 97 degree field of view.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: del@babel.DIALix.oz.au (D Elson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: chocolate 
Distribution: world
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 03:20:05 GMT
Organization: 


OK, here it is:

From Reay Tannahil, "Food In History", (London 1988: Penguin Books Ltd).

    For every hundred cocoa beans, mix two pods of chilli or Mexican pepper
    ... or, failing those, two Indian peppercorns, a handful of aniseed,
    two of those flowers known as 'little ears' or vinacaxatlides and two
    of those known as masasuchil ... Instead of the latter one could include
    the powder of the six roses of Alexandria [an apothecaries formula]
    ... a little pod of logwood [dye], two drachmas of cinnamon, a dozen
    almonds and as many hazelnuts, half a pound of sugar and enough
    annatto [a yellow-orange dye] to give colour to the whole.

His bibliography gives the following references for this recipe:

   Antonio Colmenero, quoted in Franklin, XIII pp. 161-2.

   FRANKLIN, A.  Vie privee des francais, 12e a 18e siecles.  27 t,
     Paris 1887-1902.  [Vol XIII Le Cafe, le the, et le chocolat]

Del
--
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------
D Elson                            |  del@DIALix.oz.au del@adied.oz.au
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez)
Subject: Re: peer structure
Organization: National Association for the Disorganized
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:27:36 GMT

SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon) writes:

>Unto Charles the Clerk and the Rest of the Rialto, Greetings!

>My problem with 'automatic titles' is that we have way serious too many
>high ranking people for an actual medieval kingdom.

  The explanation I've heard for this is that the SCA represents only the upper
class of a real medieval kingdom and that there are several hundred thousand
hypothetical peasants supporting us.  In that context, it doesn't appear quite
as ludicrous.

  Let's see...I can think of 12 Ducal rank, 14 County rank, 30 territorial
barons/baronesses, and maybe 40-60 court barons/baronesses currently active
(county is probably low, and I didn't take time to look at all the barons and 
baronesses that I knew...
  This doesn't seem unreasonable for a kingdom with an aristocracy of about 
7,000 people (which is about twice the paid membership of the Midrealm.)  The
number of dukes is certainly inflated, but isn't incredibly inflated...

		Alan Fairfax Aluricson, Fenris Herald
		Canton of the Riding of Hawkland Moor
		Barony of Northwoods, Midrealm
		atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu		**Magnitudo Vocis**



From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Homage, Fealty, and Tommyrot
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 08:39:30

    Arval wrote:
 JM> My thanks for Hossein for the discussion of fealty and homage.  I would
 JM> like to reply to your analysis:

 JM> > There is no extant medieval example... of a person receiving any of the
 JM> > orders of knightood which Arval cited who was not already a knight...

 JM> This is incorrect.  I recommend to your attention Boulton's "The
 JM> Knights of Crown", which is the most thorough and scholarly discussion
 JM> of medieval orders of knighthood.  He notes several examples of orders
 JM> which accepted non-knights into their membership.  In some cases,
 JM> companionship included a knighthood; in others it did not.  Some of
 JM> the orders even had ladies as companions.

 Dammit, Arval, you're worse than an Atenveldt LOI. *What* orders? *Name*
 them and discuss how they support your position, don't just say "notes
 several examples".

 Not all "knightly orders" were "orders of knighthood" - as, indeed, is the
 case today. The concept of such orders was closely modelled after that of
 the religious orders of the day (and the earliest, such as the Templars
 and Hospitallars, were just that - religious orders incidentally
 consisting of fighters) and typically including "serjeants" and
 "chaplains" as well as "knights".

    Tadhg, Obelisk

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Filk vs. Recreation (was Re: out-of-period dancing)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 11:59:34

 JB> In particular, lines of couples that count off 1 
 JB> and 2 or A and B (known in
 JB> the trade as "duple minor" dances), are (I think) 
 JB> either very late- or more
 JB> likely post- period.  The only two I happen to know are Female Sailor
 JB> (where does this come from, anyway --- late Playford?) and Hole in the
 JB> Wall, but there are others.
 Well, Female Sailor isn't in the first edition of Playford, so it must 
 be a later version.  It's EC style, so it probably is Playford.  I 
 just spot-checked a few of the "longways for as many as will" dances, 
 and while I do agree that the "duple minor" didn't show up in those few,  I can see why it got started..... Here's a whole long line of folks, 
 and they just get to stand there while the 1st couple dances with them 
 one couple at a time.  Unless the dance is something like Strip the 
 Willow, where one is very glad to rest for a bit, that's not 
 particularly exciting.   Hmmmmm, lots of time to gossip, though.....
     Gwenllian CfM

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)