HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: kyokunshikai karate ???
From: richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 05:00:09 GMT
Reply-To: parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Distribution: world
Organization: Masterful Enterprises UnLimited.

In article <1992Sep1.141251.1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi> kkangas@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi writes:

 >         What is kyokunshikai karate style ?

Kyokushinkaikan means someting like "House of the Ultimate Truth".

 >         In here those guys are advertising it to be the toughest karate 
 >         style in a world. They are calling it "knock down karate".

Well, we call ourselves the toughest karate because we try to be the
strongest and the best.  When we refer to knock down karate, we are
referring to our tournament style - no protection at all, and fought
full contact.  Winner is the dude left standing after the round is over.

 >         Please, no flames. I'm TKD people and not consider to start train 
 >         this style. Just wanna know what is it anyway.

We try to be the fastest, the strongest, the toughest - the best.  Not
easy.  Body strength is important, but so is mind strength.  What
specifically did you want to know?  It is a fighting art, rather than a
way, and is reasonably modern - the founder is still alive... ;)

Later!
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:54:41 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Distribution: usa
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Sep11.190442.13049@morrow.stanford.edu> CA.FER@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jennifer Gates) writes:
>From the ground your upper body can be protected by your legs which
>are your stronger part. This prevents you from having to 'play their
>game' by avoiding strikes or striking with your upper body... Thats

	How?
						wr
From: zhou@solb1.essex.ac.uk (Zhou J)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Savate and Muay Thai kicking principles (was Boxing and Kicks)
Date: 11 Sep 92 10:09:59 GMT
Reply-To: zhou@essex.ac.uk (Zhou J)
Organization: University of Essex, Colchester, UK

In article <1992Sep10.210108.29020@ns.network.com> hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) writes:
>
>Muay Thai really only has two kicks.  One is what's called a foot jab --
>done like a front kick, but used more to position one's opponent -- sort
>of as a push.  The other kick -- this is the one that people usually
>are talking about -- is a round kick, almost always thrown off the
>rear leg, and done with one's body weight fully committed.  I.e., if
>you miss, you end up spinning a 360.  The leg is kept more or less
>straight throughout.  It most definitely is not a snap kick  (it is
>said that Thai trainers have a habit of knocking out people who throw
>snap kicks during a pad drill).  One makes contact with one's shin,
>BTW.  Typically, the kick is thrown to "uke's" legs, ribs, or head.
>
>OK, so that's Muay Thai -- you're throwing haymakers, all the time.

Ok,  Peter,  I know you were mainly talking about Muay Thay kicks but that's
not doing enough justice to Muay Thai.:-)  Thaiboxers also do much damage on 
each other by using elbows and knees, that`s what I have seen and heard anyway.
It was some experience to watch "the king of the knees" get on with his 
business to distroy his opponent in the ring. And he used his elbows too!!!
You see a few knees landing on the poor guys body( ribs, back, arms etc.) and
then a couple elbows would be thrown into the head which is now unguarded.  
Real brutal!!!  The girl called Cathy Long was beaten very convincingly by
Lisa Howorth(or something like that) from Master Toddy's gym in that tournament.
However, Muay Thai does look messy when the fighters get onto the ground.

Cheers

Joey
.
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Attitudes (wasRe- Silent or
Date: 10 Sep 1992 00:37:56 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 715906716snx@ietech.demon.co.uk, nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:

>
>Pure kiai can stop an attacker totally, they will freeze, even
>fall over.  I know this can be done from my own experience. 
>

Not that I don't believe you, but I would dearly love to see this,
it has too much the flavor of people who claim they can "project"
ki and hit their opponent.  Where can I go (either in Washington, or
in the San Fran. Bay area), to see this use of kiai?

>
>Because of its very nature, the use of kiai puts the practitioner
>at a major disadvantage if it does not work.  Therefore, it can
>only be used once in combat.  This is very different from the
>approach used in modern martial arts.

I have not noticed this, but then again, it sounds like we are talking
about different types of kiai. 




			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: shick@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (steve hick)
Subject: Re: Fencing (2 rapier)
Reply-To: shick@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (steve hick)
Organization: GTE Contel Federal Systems
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:29:44 GMT

 Doug Nichol (Rhythm & Hues Hollywood, CA) writes

 	I'm curious about two rapiers being historically accurate.
	One of the big problems I have about SCA, is that you can't
	really argue the "historically accurate" question. Two rapiers
	as a weapons choice sounds astonishingly stupid to me, as two
	of these at once would be very unweildy due to their weight and
	length, totally defeating the originally intended advantages of
	mobility and speed in defense. I don't believe you could ever
	convince me that using two would be "historically accurate,"
	but what the hell do I know? I wasn't there. I think there is
	too much room for the overimaginative and underexposed to make
	their own decisions as to what is or is not historically
	accurate in SCA. How defined are the rules? Are there any?
	Can you do whatever you want, as long as nobody bothers to question
	you?

Doug, there are numerous 'case of rapers' extant from the mid 16th century.  These weren't ever full Elizabethan 
sized rapiers, but more normal length swords, which were encased in the same scabbard  (Sound familiar?).  The 
techniques using them are described in several manuals from the period, including Marozzo (1536) and di Grassi 
[1575].  You can read di Grassi's method, as it was translated and published in England in the 1590's and it is 
collected in James L. Jackson's Three Elizabethan fencing Manuals.  I have read Marozzo (in the Italian), the use is 
that of a cu t and thrust weapon, the favored engarde for Marozzo is tierce with the hand of the lead foot, and 
something like a quarte with the other.  Alfred Hutton in Old Sword Days, Old Sword Days has some descripition of an 
demonstration engagement, drawn from Marozzo.  Both are available (Jackson and Hutton) at major research level 
libraries.  Fencing with two rapiers was something of a fad, as I've not found anything on it after 1600.

On the historicity of SCA rapier fighting, I'll leave it to those who do to describe.  Rules are quite extensive.  Some of 
those that do, know, but again, how many fencers know the history of their art from the time of Angelo, or even from 
the beginning of the 20 century?  As far as being boarded - not.

Steve Hick
From: fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Query: Gung fu in New York City
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:42:20 GMT
Organization: Right Bleedin' Church of Libertine Obfuscatology

In <SCHAN.92Sep11092417@birch.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan) writes:


>	Into the political quagmire...

>In article <1992Sep10.155204.10785@panix.com> fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller) writes:
>   You can also ask your Sifu how come he didn't participate in sponsoring the
>   Shao-Lin Monk's show this June.  I noticed that there were no other NYC
>   Kung-Fu schools participating in it - I have a strong suspicion that they
>   were not excluded.

>	Here's a martial arts lesson or you...
>	Don't let defensive reactions (ego?) overwhelm your reason. I don't
>think you know who Doug's sifu is - so, how can you say that he didn't
>participate in sponsoring the Shaolin Monk's tour?

I know because I was at the show.  In fact, I was IN it.  Remember that we
are talking specifically about New York City here.  I know that the only
schools that participated in the show in New York city are schools that are
run by Wai Hong's students.  I also have reason to believe that the other
schools in the area were not excluded from participating, but elected not
to, probably for "political" reasons.

-- 
    / \      Reverend fnord                 | "King Kong died for your sins!"
   /   \     fnord@panix.com                | 
  / <0> \                                   | "Don't just eat a hamburger, 
 /_______\   Church of Obfuscatology, Inc.  |  eat the HELL out of it!"
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What happens when you cross styles?
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:30:48 GMT
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Sep10.180233.11590@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>
>I think there are too many factors to effectively generalize about what will
>happen to your streetfighting skill when you first start cross training or
>changing styles, but I think it's possible that your sparring
>skill in either your old or new style will initially suffer for a while,
>even when you gain a fair amount of skill in the new style, because of the
>confusion in TIMING, and partly strategy.  Figuring out what kind of things to 
>do in what situations, what openings to respond to, what range to favor,
>and so on.  These sorts of things because natural if you're good at
>sparring, and they change around from style to style, especially styles
>as different as Aikido and TKD.  The fighting cadence is very different between
>these arts.  Your broken rhythm attack, effective in TKD, turns into an 
>awkward kokyu-nage, since matching the tempo of the opponent's movement is
>more critial in Aikido.
>

In my OWN opinion, I believe cross-training is good after one has
mastered his/her first style.  By mastering, I mean you can fight
by using reflex action and no need to think if you should kick or
punch or throw or grap.  This usually takes many years of daily
practice, a few hours a day.  Then one can learn some other styles,
and do the same.  When it comes to street fighting, you don't need
to think about which style you would use as you should repond in
reflex.  And it doesn't matter that you mix a few styles together.

In my OWN opinion, one can get trouble if they haven't learnt
the first style enough and switch to the second, or switch to the
third ...  This is usually no good.
From: zwbm07@hou.amoco.com (Walter Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Looking for school of an internal style of MA in Houston
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:02:23 GMT
Reply-To: zwbm07@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco

Does anyone have any suggestions for a school whose philosophy is such
that it stays out of politics, emphasizes inflicting as little or as much damage
as is necessary for the given situation, studies pressure points, throws, grabs,
strikes and kicks? 

Thanks in advance!

---
TTYL & TANSTAAFL ---------------- Walter Moore 
      Internet: zwbm07@hou.amoco.com

..SCUBA divers do it with depth...blub...blub...blub...
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: sv6f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Steven  Velasquez)
Subject: Re: kicking from the ground
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 16:52:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.180637.1005@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.144246.18504@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
>>In one of the "John Gilbey" books, I recall that there is a story
>>about a woman who was accosted by a judoka.  Following Bobby
>>Knight's infamous advice, she decided to lie back and enjoy it...
>
>Just for the record, I hope you know he didn't actually say this
>(or anything to that effect...)
>
>                                                Frank Crary
>                                                CU Boulder
>

Actually, I remember the news broadcast with the interview in question.
I remember Bobby Knight actually saying almost those exact words.  As
the old saying goes, "Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one."
Bobby Knight (Head Basketball Coach of the University of Indiana) seems
to think his insignificant success as a coach enables him to say and do
whatever he feels like.  I'm sure the Puerto Rican police would love to
have a "talk" with him. :-)

As for the John Gilbey story (The Woman Who Couldn't Be Raped in The
Way of A Warrior), the woman doesn't just lie back and "enjoy" it, she
persuades her attacker to allow her to put him in a dojime (waist squeeze),
and if he could escape, she would be cooperative.  He lost and had to be
revived when help arrived.  This is a very powerful technique and is
apparently not allowed in judo competitions.  In wrestling, a figure-four
leg lock around someone's waist was allowed and usually resulted in
a cooperative pin to relieve the pressure.

Steven Velasquez
University of Virginia
Dept. of Physics
Velas@virginia.edu
From: aikido@cs.ucsd.edu (Operator)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Aikido Dojo Listings (FTP Archive)
Date: 13 Sep 92 03:07:23 GMT
Organization: CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

The aikido dojo lists (formerly maintained at iuvax.cs.indiana.edu)
are now at cs.ucsd.edu (132.239.51.3) via anonymous FTP in /pub/aikido.
There are currently 3 lists in compressed format:

	aikido-Asia-Aus-NZ.Z
	aikido-Europe.Z
	aikido-North-America.Z

An example of how joe@cs.podunk.edu would obtain a list via anonymous FTP:

	% ftp cs.ucsd.edu
	User: anonymous
	Password: joe@cs.podunk.edu
	ftp> cd pub/aikido
	ftp> binary
	ftp> get aikido-North-America.Z
	ftp> quit
	%

The lists are also available via email through an FTP mailer such 
as ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com or bitftp@pucc.princeton.edu.  
For example:

	% mail ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com
	connect cs.ucsd.edu
	binary
	chdir /pub/aikido
	get aikido-North-America.Z
	quit
	.
	%

(For more info on FTP mailer usage, send the message HELP to the mailer.)

The file is sent as ASCII (using the btoa filter), and will need to be 
decoded back to compressed format.  Strip off the mail headers using
an editor (such as vi or emacs), then run atob (btoa -a).

Use the "uncompress" command to change the file into a readable format:

	% uncompress aikido-North-America.Z

Additions, modifications, and suggestions should be sent to:

	 aikido@cs.ucsd.edu

Onegaishimasu!
From: taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Savate and Muay Thai kicking principles (was Boxing and Kicks)
Summary: The most painful sport form?
Keywords: savate
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:32:49 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

I read somewhere that at one time savate competitions were held in which
only kicking was allowed, and you could not kick above the waist.  Sounds
like the most painful form of tournament fighting ever devised, to me.

Perhaps the story is apocryphal.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott A. Taddiken, University of Kentucky
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Help with flexibility
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 21:39:59 GMT

In article robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
>In article drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>>Or, ask your most flexible training partner how he got and stays that way.
>
>Invariably, they started stretching when they were eight years old and never
>stopped.  :-(

Or they just lucked out in the genetic crapshoot.  You can only
do so much with a mismatched musculature and skeletal structure.
But practically everybody can improve on their natural endowment.
Even after age eight.  Bill Wallace, for example, says he didn't
begin stretching seriously until he was well into his 20s.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst")
Subject: Attitudes (wasRe- Silent or 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:26:01 +0000


In article <SCHAN.92Sep9085800@birch.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil writes:

>        Kiai-jutsu was supposed to be a very real thing "back in the good old
>days" ( BITGOD ?). At the Karate/Kenjutsu dojo where I used to train, we were
>told that the system had 7 different kiai. There was a kiai to create an
>opening during your opponent's attack, a kiai to help you generate power, a
>certain kind of victory/exhultation kiai, etc...
>        As someone else pointed out, a Real Kiai (tm) is much more than just
>loud - it's supposed to be sorta "spooky", because it doesn't sound like a
>noise that human beings make.
>

Interesting.  I had never heard the description spooky used before
in connection with kiai, though my own experiments in this area have
produced some very wierd effects at time.  I do recall though hearing
a description of the sizure of Mary Kelly the Irish Witch during the
reign of James I of England.

It stated that when they went to size her that she may a cry of the devil
and they would approach no closer and those who had grabbed hold of her
arms were flung forth as she raised them to call upon the dark forces.

I heard this discription on the radio many years ago, but at the time
it sounded very familiar.  Unfortunately I have never been able to
track down the source for the description.

Nigel

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan)
Subject: Re: Query: Gung fu in New York City
Organization: ARINC Research
Date: 11 Sep 92 09:24:17
	<1992Sep9.184839.280@panix.com> <1992Sep09.234000.22033@eng.umd.edu>
	<1992Sep10.155204.10785@panix.com>


	Into the political quagmire...

In article <1992Sep10.155204.10785@panix.com> fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller) writes:
   You can also ask your Sifu how come he didn't participate in sponsoring the
   Shao-Lin Monk's show this June.  I noticed that there were no other NYC
   Kung-Fu schools participating in it - I have a strong suspicion that they
   were not excluded.

	Here's a martial arts lesson or you...
	Don't let defensive reactions (ego?) overwhelm your reason. I don't
think you know who Doug's sifu is - so, how can you say that he didn't
participate in sponsoring the Shaolin Monk's tour?


   Then tell me again how your school is above political
   infighting.   This sort of thing probably goes on a lot.  It has probably
   gone on for centuries.  Again, I say, you are the one who has brought such
   politics into the choice of a school, and made a case that your schools are
   above it all, when in fact, they are just as much involved and you happen
   to favor their position.

	I guess the difference is between an inclusive political stance, and 
an exclusive political stance. Doug's org seems to be of the "inclusive"
stance, where they expect everyone to participate - while those he accuses of
being "political" are exclusive, because they won't associate with other
groups.

   I realize this.  I'm sure you have some valid points, which I would like to
   hear privately.  My only point is that if there are political conflicts
   within the chinese martial arts community, then both sides are involved,
   and both sides have the "right" position.

	Well, I wouldn't say that both sides are "right" - quotes or no quotes.
In my experience, it's more often the case that both sides are "wrong". In MA
politics, you often get these lofty rationalizations about why and how you are
associated with the X organization and not the Y organization - when in fact
it is over some petty personality squabble. If all you hear is the Gospel
According to Sifu, then you're being a sheep - you'd rather hear something
which gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, than hear the truth (or at least a
"broader" truth).
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: spooky kiaiissssss
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:15:57 GMT
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 4876@marlin.jcu.edu.au, cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.121552.2449@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>>Anyone ever spar Jimmy Rhee?  He had a hilarious, kihap, a high pitched
>>whooop sound, he used to spend a lot of time adjusting the timing so
>>that you would think the sound would just precede the blow, and then
>>use it as a fake... technique not particularly recommended, I'm a
>>dummy and I never fell for it.
>
>I visited a Yung Jung Do (a local TKD breakaway group) training
>session a while ago and when they kiai'ed it sounded like they were
>making laser sounds from Star Wars.  I found it hard to take
>them seriously... :-)

Then their Kiai's worked.  If I could make it so the opponent wouldn't
take me seriously, without endangering my life or limb, I would use it a lot...

	-Garth


			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bush Black belt??!!!
Date: 3 Sep 92 23:23:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: techbook.1992Sep3.232327.28320
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix

schan@atria.srg (Stephen Chan) writes:

>In article <10420@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:

>   He *was* head o' the secret police for several years, it just may be
>   possible that he's had some meaningful empty hand training. Ya just
>   never know...

>	Well, David, you managed to say it before I could figure out this
>news reader enough to post it myself.

>	After all folks, George "I'm Not A Wimp" Bush just COULD BE a black
>belt in something. If that Hunka Hunka Burning Blob, Elvis Presley could earn
>a black belt in Kempo, then George could earn a black belt in something too.

Well, hell, either of them could afford to _buy_ a black belt in
something, given the right "teacher".  Anyway, George might have been a
spy but he was definitely a desk jockey. Not much need for empty hand
training when you face nothing more dangerous than a Congressional
oversight committee.

Jeff Frane


>	Stephen
-- 
gummitch@techbook.COM  Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) 
"Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe."
                                    --Thomas Jefferson
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Silent or vocal sparring?
Date: 5 Sep 92 17:20:22 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <1992Sep4.052331.16136@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>I used to study from someone who _smiled_, in the most

My kung fu teacher and his teacher both had a habit of not even looking
directly at you.  They'd look off to one side and use peripheral vision mostly.
I picked up this technique, too, and I've been told it's pretty disconcerting,
in the same way the smiling is.

Al