HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Role reversal
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:01:27 GMT

Think about this scenario.  The next time some white person says something
that offends an Asian person here (like a stereotype or Japan bashing, to
name two) here's what you (meaning an AA) should say:

    Well!!  While I'm sure that rhetoric such as yours is undoubtedly
    satisfying because it sounds good and it's very PC right now to
    beat up on the "yellow menace," it misses the simple point that
    the real effect it has is of offending Asian people, instead of
    making them sympathetic to whites and their problems.  Do you
    want to cause race war?  Nuclear winter?  All fall down?  Then
    keep it up, Bubba!!!

Question, class.  Does that sound kind of funny to you?  Coming from an
Asian person's mouth, I mean.  Do you think even one white person would
actually take a "threat" like that seriously?

HA HA HA HA HA... I don't even think *I* could pull off something like that.

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:39:29 GMT

In article <24808@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong) writes:
> 
> I just read "Dear Abby" today.  I'm tempted to write a letter, too.  I'm
> thinking, however, that it would stand a better chance of getting printed if
> it sounded official.  So, I'm wondering what people on s.c.a.a. feel about
> writing a joint letter to Dear Abigail and signing it SCAA.
> 
> Knowing this newsgroup, I'm sure people will have a hard time agreeing on
> saying any one thing, but if you like the general ideas Kerry is presenting,
> maybe we can do this.

     This sounds like a *great* idea.  Kevin, would you mind drafting
the letter and posting the response for comments?  Assuming you write
something upon which most/all of us agree, you could then send it in
to Dear Abby.

     I perceive some real advantages of sending in a group letter:

	1) It's more likely to get published, and Dear Abby does miss
	   the point (raised here) that the mere asking of the question
	   is offensive because it assumes a person with Asian features
	   is a foreigner;

	2) Dear Abby is nationally syndicated (SINdicated?  :-), which
	   makes it a good forum for *any* AA to use (Gotta build some
	   *political* muscle.);

	3) Readers of this group are presumably (Yeah, some people are
	   going to be offended by my presumption.) more intelligent,
	   or at least more articulate, than the general population (AA
	   or no).

     If you are too busy or otherwise have reservations, please just
say so.  I'm sure several of us SCAA readers would enjoy the task,
myself included.

							George


----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: alcohol (was Re: Cheese)
Keywords: cheese alcohol
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 04:27:48 GMT

In article <l78m87INNgrv@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Ugga de Boogidie) writes:
> 
> Well it looks like a lot of A-As have the same condition with regards
> to alcohol as I do. Has anybody ever tried "upping" their alcohol
> tolerance, i.e. drinking a little bit more each time? Does it work?

     I'm not sure if the flushing effects some Asians experience are the
same as the other symptoms of alcohol consumption.  In any case, there are
the obvious dangers of increasing one's alcohol consumption.

     Another AA once told me eating bananas helped.  I'm not sure if it
really does.  Eating anything helps to some degree, since drinking on an
empty stomach is a sure way to get plastered.  I'm waiting for someone
to introduce a product like Lactaid (which helps lactose intolerant
people digest milk), but for alcohol's flushing effects.

> I feel a little left out when it comes to social drinking but at the
> same time I don't get the kind of pressure I used to when people see
> that I'm not drinking.

     That's probably for the better.  Perhaps I'm just hanging out with
a conservative crowd, but many of my Asian and Asian-American friends
disdain *any* drinking.

							George

----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Dear Abby Letter: Draft #1
Date: 25 Jul 92 01:24:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: RAND Corporation.

In article <Brx7G3.Dyv@news.cso.uiuc.edu> phc65823@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter H. Chou) writes:
>Maybe you could just call it newsgroup or something,
>and who cares if it's not specific enough.

Call it a "discussion group," "issues forum," or something else
describing what happens here (aside from character assassination
:-)) but not necessarily mentioning a computer network.

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: masahiro@tgevax.life.uiuc.edu (Masahiro Kono)
Subject: Re: Doonesbury this week
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:19:07 GMT

achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) writes:

>Since everyone seems to be missing *my* point (points, actually),
>I probably should have made them in the original post:

>1.  Trudeau reinforces the misperception that Asian-Americans
>    are taking over and running away with all the goodies, when
>    the fact is that National Merit Scholars are the exception
>    among Asian-Americans, not the rule.  ("Asian-Americans are
>    winning all the scholarships!  What could they possibly have
>    to complain about?")

>2.  I for one resent having my scholastic achievements used as
>    an object lesson for Caucasian students to study harder.
>    They were the product of Real American public schools, and
>    are an asset to Real America, not a threat.

Speaking of missing points (and this may be a minor point), but
Doonesbury usually comments on the time as they are (more or
less). That being said, these strips are repeats.  They aren't
publishing these Doonesbury in the Chicago Tribune (nor the
Daily Illini) while Trudeau is taking his summer vacation, 
but I did catch one of them in another paper and recalled
having seen them before.  Wasn't there a lot of press on the
yellow invasion in our school system back in the late '80's?
Weren't there kids and parents accusing schools in CA of
reverse discrimination?  Weren't a couple of Ivy League school
admissions folks saying that they were cutting back on AA
admissions?  Wasn't Dick Gephart using the yellow scare tactic
in his '88 campaign?  Weren't there cover stories in major
magazines about AA academic successes?  Didn't those Westinghouse
Science project winners have a lot of AA's?  Were any of you in
college for the big story on AA's in colleges in Newsweek on Campus
magazine back in 198-something? Wasn't Trudeau mirroring some of the
images of AA's and commenting on their absurdities?

Oh well. Take home point: these are old strips, not new.

Later, folks.

-Masahiro Kono (m-kono@uiuc.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Degree Envy
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:28:33 GMT


  A fellow s.c.a.a.-er and I were discussing our families
  and we struck upon something interesting.  I wonder how
  many Asian American families out there have this thing
  about degrees and names of schools and universities.

  For example, you hear your relatives or parent's friends
  discuss their kids and all you hear are PhD from
  Berkeley, M.D. from Yale, PhD from Cornell, MD
  from Stanford, MD/PhD from Harvard, etc. etc. etc.

  Then the people who "only got Masters" feel so-o
  inferior.  Or people who "only went to some state
  universities", or "only got PhD in Botany" as opposed
  to "AstroPhysics".  Even 90 year old grandmothers
  from overseas get into the degree game, although most
  of them haven't the foggiest idea, except they know
  how to say "Pee Hch Dee."  Do you find it funny,
  hilarious, or sad?

  Then there are the parents who put up some "ideal
  AA family" where the kids all get "straight A's,
  are musical virtuosos, and are presidents of the
  Student Council" as examples for their kids to emulate.
  Of course the kids feel like total failures for
  dropping out after a Masters and quitting music lessons.

  Then there are the kids who think that the parents
  should reward them for all their accomplishments
  only to have the parents say, "So what?  Getting
  an MD from Harvard is no big deal.  Why so-and-so's
  kid has a MD/PhD and is going to be an astronaut."
  These kids feel that if they were born in an "ordinary"
  family, they'd be the big stars, instead of being
  surrounded by a clan of super-achieving, over-achieving
  cousins.

  Does this hit a nerve among readers of s.c.a.a.?
  Do any of the male readers have people say, "Hey,
  your sisters are all getting PhDs, why aren't you
  getting one?"  Or anyone's sister thinks "all non-PhDs
  are scum?"  Or anyone's aunt getting a PhD in her
  late 50's just so she can have one and "motivate"
  her son to get his, because "mom got one in 3 years!~
  Or anyone getting pressured from their relatives to
  get a PhD, or just get one since your dad had one
  and you're the only son, so you got to get one too?
  And having sisters who nobody wanted them to get a
  PhD get one instead so they can feel superior?
  Or having 90 year old grandmother keeping track of
  how many years each of her grandchildren spent in
  their PhD programs?  Cousin Ping got in in 4-1/2 years,
  isn't this your 5th year?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: thao@bnr.ca (Anthony Murtagh)
Subject: Re: Asian <> Asian-American
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:21:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.164536.7505@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> maridai@ecs.comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio) writes:
>Ok, since this is SCAA, what am I doing here?  I am a Filipino (thus, Asian)
>and should not be sticking my nose in this newsgroup, right?  NOT.
>This is so because, my kind is referred to here from time to time (maybe,
>more than a few times) that I figured, I must express an Asian point of view,
>my way (rather than let somebody put words into my mouth.)
>

[asian vs asian-american stuff deleted]

>
>P.S.  The above is addressed to AAs who are prejudiced against Asians only.
>      I did not do this to start a thread or a flamewar.  Like most who 
>      post, I too would just like to express my own opinion.
> 

hmmm...what subject were all the "anti-asians" posts under?  i browse
through here periodically but mostly i just hit "n" or "c" followed
by a "y" after looking at some of the subject matter :-)  so i may
have missed it.

there aren't just asian-americans here anyway.  there are "asians", too.
there are also other readers/posters who aren't asians, so you are
most welcomed to stick your nose here :-)

it's enough that there's a aa vs ca battle raging on here, who was
crazy enough to rag on asians?

laly thao

/***********************************************************************************\
*   thao@cse.uta.edu	   |  "The lipstick is purple.  The mecha is Psycho."	    *
*   B645ZAY@UTARLG.UTA.EDU |                          -old Panime newsletter        *
\***********************************************************************************/


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lchsu@cayley.waterloo.edu (Leon C. Hsu)
Subject: Re: Asian American Media Image
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:27:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.215500.8287@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>The original band had one white guy; he committed suicide when the band 
>started to get big.

Sorry to seem morbid, but I first misread this as "he committed suicide
*then* the band started to get big." I thought it was morbidly hilarious.
Especially in the context of this newsgroup.

ug.

-leon.
From: kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Date: 23 Jul 1992 03:40:17 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
Reply-To: kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.112.42

In article <1992Jul21.202036.19814@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>
>Have any of you read today's "Dear Abby"?  Some time ago, someone asked,
[stuff deleted]
>To this, Abby replies, "Most, but not all.  One reader wrote to say that
>she (out of curiosity) approached a gentleman with Asian features and said,
>"My friend and I have a bet on.  Where are you from?"
>
>The gentleman replied, "Cincinnati."
>
>I'm thinking of writing a response to this.  Something like:
[more stuff deleted]
>
>(2) In asking, "Where are you from?" rather than asking his ethnicity
>directly, he was implying that people who look Asian are not Americans.
>If you ask a Caucasian, "Where are you from?" and he says, "Cincinnati,"
>you would accept his answer rather than looking for an answer such as
>"Poland" or "Switzerland."
>
>No matter how many generations an Asian's family have been in this country,
>most people will not think of him as a "real American."  For example,
>Katarina Witt looks more "American" than Kristi Yamaguchi.  With the image
>of Asians as foreigners comes distrust, particularly in times of war and
>times of recession.  Their loyalty is questioned....

I just read "Dear Abby" today.  I'm tempted to write a letter, too.  I'm
thinking, however, that it would stand a better chance of getting printed if
it sounded official.  So, I'm wondering what people on s.c.a.a. feel about
writing a joint letter to Dear Abigail and signing it SCAA.

Knowing this newsgroup, I'm sure people will have a hard time agreeing on
saying any one thing, but if you like the general ideas Kerry is presenting,
maybe we can do this.

 - kevin









Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: rtang@sunee.waterloo.edu (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 09:19:36 GMT

Well, I'll put in my 2 cents on this topic.

When I am in a foreign country and someone asks me where I am
from I'll say: Canada or Canadian.

If I am IN Canada and dont really feel like being creative,
I'll say "I'm from Hong Kong originally".
If I am in Canada and in a "strange" mood,
I asked them how far back do they want me to go?
 Ranging from: "I was over in The next room a minute ago",
           to: any of the places I've lived in.
           to: "My mother's Womb!"


When I am asked "Where I am from?" when I am at home.
I implicitly think that THE asker knows I am Canadian, cause
in my mind what else could I be then Canadian, so I automatically
translated that to where are you from originally.  

I've ACTUALLY used that last one, and the askee said, 
"well everyone's from there", and then tries to be more specific
with the question.  I end up making them guess.  And almost 
always, be they Chinese/asian/or whatever will guess the
wrong thing.  Where I REALLY am from originally is always not
one of their guesses.  Actually the same thing applies when
I ask someone to guess what my major in University is. 

I wonder why that is?
From: hiebeler@think.com (Dave Hiebeler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Cheese
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:56:34
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation
Distribution: na
	<1992Jul22.192230.10192@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
	<MDAY.92Jul23175848@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: passion.think.com
In-reply-to: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu's message of Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:58:48 GMT


In article <MDAY.92Jul23175848@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu> mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:

> I would welcome an analysis of hard-boiled or fried eggs: is it OK to
> be white on the outside but yellow at the core?

  I have been called an "egg" a couple of times, because of being so
interested in Chinese culture.  But I don't think anyone was being too
mean when they said it.

  I'm not really sure what shade of yellow my core is.  Let's say
white and yellow swirls (and the swirls are still swirling, even --
it's enough to make a person dizzy).

--
Dave Hiebeler                  | Internet: hiebeler@think.com
Thinking Machines Corporation  | UUCP: {uunet,harvard}!think!hiebeler
245 First Street               | Bitnet: hiebeler%think.com@mitvma.bitnet
Cambridge, MA 02142  USA       | Phone:  (617) 234-4070 (work)
From: annie@hardy.u.washington.edu (Annie Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: alcohol (was Re: Cheese)
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:40:27 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

I had heard somewhere that 60% of Asians (or Asian-Americans) are
lacking an enzyme to metabolize alcohol.

Basically, we're (yes, I'm among them) allergic to alcohol.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: htn@cs.columbia.edu (Hoa T Nguyen)
Subject: Re: FOBs/Oreos/Twinkies/etc.
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:39:30 GMT


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse)
Subject: Re: Keeping in mind that this is AmeriKKKa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:44:13 GMT
Organization: Raoul Duke School of Pharmacology and Journalism

In article <14fq65INNj0p@agate.berkeley.edu> judyy@ocf.berkeley.edu (Judy Y. Tseng) writes:
>Gary Tse writes under Asian-Am/African Am relationships:
>>I would think that a person who claims to be fair in his
>>social and professional dealings but is racially discriminating in 
>>matters much closer to his heart smacks of the worst sort of hyprocrisy.
>
>Gary, I'd like to reiterate my reasoning in claiming that marriages between
>two people of ethnic minority groups are better politically than marriages
>between a non-white and a white person.

I am not quite sure what judyy's response has to do with my post.
There may well be all kinds of valid political reasons to marry a
non-white person.  (People, after all, marry for the darnedest
reasons.)  That there are valid reasons, however, does not stop the act
from being racist.  In fact, I think judyy admitted as much at the
conclusion of her now infamous "I approve of Black/Asian marriages more
than I do of White/Asian marriages" posts.

>1. Asian Americans are not White.

False.  There are Portuguese living in Hong Kong and Macao who are
much more culturally Chinese than judyy (I assume) or I am.  Those
Chinese-cu Portuguese who subsequently emigrate to the States are
Asian Americans.  And they are White.  (Gack, that must really screw
up everyone's "Yellow-good, White-bad" biases.)

-- 
Gary Tse, tse@Apple.COM			``Out of a misty dream
(408) 862-5452			Our path emerges for a while, then closes
						Within a dream.'' -- E. Dowson
From: thao@bnr.ca (Anthony Murtagh)
Subject: Re: alcohol (was Re: Cheese)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:52:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.194027.29908@u.washington.edu> annie@hardy.u.washington.edu (Annie Li) writes:
>I had heard somewhere that 60% of Asians (or Asian-Americans) are
>lacking an enzyme to metabolize alcohol.
>
>Basically, we're (yes, I'm among them) allergic to alcohol.

i wouldn't say that i'm allergic to alcohol...i just can't stand the taste.
the aroma is something to die for though :-)  wine, champagne, and sometimes
beer have an attractive aroma imho...but like i said i don't care too much
for the taste of any of them *although* i do like wine when mixed with 
fruit juices...mmmmmmm...refreshing.

laly thao

"i could handle alcohol...but i've never been brave enough to try...heheh."
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian-American/African-American Relationships
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:08:21 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Jul21.184118.951@mumbo.apple.com> tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.213333.3225@u.washington.edu> gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....) writes:
>In fact, I said (in part of the material you quoted and agreed with):
>"We are humans, not Vulcans; emotions color everything we do."
>Obviously I do *not* think that "everything CAN be ruled by
>rationality", as you claimed.

	So the question then goes, why should gut-level preferences be
ruled by rationality?  Seems to be contradictory here....

>>>There is a mix of emotion and logic in our
>>>professional decisions, and there is also a mix of emotion and logic
>>>in how we choose a mate.  It's hypocrisy to preach nondiscrimination
>>>in one and discrimination in the other.
>>	What? Preach for others? Or for one's self?
>Either.  It's hypocritical to preach (and hopefully practice) racial
>equality in one place and racial discrimination in another.  Oh, or
>am I using the word "hypocritical" incorrectly?  How about "highly
>contradictory"?  Or "stinks of situational ethics"?

	But you're comparing attitudes with overt behavior.  These two
are different things. And they need not be entirely congruent as well;
that's where the emotional part comes from. Asking them to be congruent
is to ask that rationality rule over this.

	BTW....I consider ethics to be highly situational in many
important respects. Saying that this reeks of situational ethics is
saying that this reeks of reality.

>>	And are you dealing with individuals' attitudes or preferences or
>>their actions and behaviors? Those you CAN delineate quite sharply, and it
>>makes a considerable amount of difference.
>Both.  So many people (both on the net and in real life) would scream
>racism at "I would only choose my co-workers among <ethnic>", so few
>would at "I would only choose my mate among <ethnic>".  

	But this is if you considerthe two to be equivalent.  They may not.
One can be overt behavior, with a considerable portion ruled by rationality. The
other deals with innate preferences, which are gut-level and are
ruled by emotions.  It is far from clear that these innate preferences
are amenable to rationality (Now this presuposses that what you mean by choosing
a mate is choosing someone you like, feel comfortable with and are attracted
to, etc.  If you mean only someone "good" enough to be chosen, that's different).

>I posed this question in my last post.  I really am interested in 
>an answer, from *anybody*.  Would "X can't be my best friend, because
>he's an <ethnic>" be a racist statement?"

-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.