From: mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer)
Subject: Re: Programming
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga Yarn 3.4, 1992/08/12 15:49:52
Keywords: 
Summary: 
Date: 15 Nov 92 15:57:10 PST
Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica

In <1992Nov15.180107.23875@ugle.unit.no>, eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) wrote:
> Well, dunno about AMOS, but in AMOS Pro,

This appears to be the standard problem: "I dunno about AMOS".  It's
nice that they fixed the problem in at least one version of the package.

> on the workbench, and acts like a shell (interpreting is done by AMOS, tho, NOT 
> by the Shell.

Is it a standard Intuition window, and does it leave the input stream
alone? I.e. - can you use IHelp (or similar commodity) to push that
window to the back while it's active?

>  > For that disk installer, what do you do if you get an "out of space"
>  > requester? In a properly written application, you can switch to the WB
>  > or open a CLI and go delete things.
> 
> You don't.  It knows how much space it needs, and will tell you if you don't have
> enough.  Anyway, by your definition of a 'properly written application', I've
> NEVER seen a properly written HD-install (except MAYBE the SAS one).

Gee, most of the HD-install utilities I've seen just let DOS do it's
thing: you run out of space, a requester pops up telling you it's
happened, you go to a CLI or the WB and delete some things and hit
retry, or you cancel it.

BTW, how does the AMOS install deal with multiple disks? Does it
require you to install everything in one place (ugh), or does it do
things piecemeal and check each disk before it starts?

Oh yeah - what does it do if some other application fills the disk
while it's installing itself? I.e. - there's enough space when it
starts, but not enough when it's finished? [This is why letting DOS do
it's thing works so nicely; you don't have to rely on checking things
that can change while you're not looking.]


>  > suitable for general utilties. Unless you can disable the idiotic
>  > stealing of the input stream, it's not suitable for anything that's
>  > going to run unattended for longer than your blanker timeout. Unless
> 
> What?

There appear to be two seperate problems related to that: 1) It steals
input events, so commodites don't know when they're invoked. 2) It
steals the hardware from intuition, so even when something blanks the
screen, the AMOS screen stays where it is. Of course, that's based on
watching how all AMOS programs misbehave, and trying to guess what
AMOS did to cause that to happen. It's possible to be wrong.

>  > it can open a public screen, it's not suitable for doing productivity
>  > tools under 2.0. Unless it can be prevented from disabling
>  > multitasking, it's not suitable for anything you might want to use
> 
> It doesn't disable multitasking...

A missed guess. AMOS just screws things up so royally that it _looked_
like multitasking was turned off. I.e. - the things that are supposed
to automatically open a screen and pop it to the front don't work; the
commodities don't work; the normal WB screen-flipping doesn't work,
and so an and so forth.

>  > with another tool. After those are eliminated, you want to tell me
>  > what's left?
> 
> Yeah - egg all over your face :)

Throwing eggs is the natural result of trying to use applications with
the rotten behaver AMOS programs have.

> Did you eliminate anything?  No, you just said 'anything which does(n't) [...]
> isn't a good programming language', without proving that ANY of the things you
> mention apply to AMOS.  Check your facts, at least...

Yeah, I missed the multi-tasking. I *asked* about the other things,
and finally got an answer "You can do it, but it's not worth the
trouble." Somehow, that doesn't jive with the idea of a language
that's supposed to make things easy.

>  > > Again, I'm NOT saying "AMOS is the best language ever wittten and blows
>  > > everything away" etc.  It does have downfalls (as does ***** EVERY *****
>  > > language).  Many C (and other language) programmers like to use AMOS
>  > > because it is SIMPLE to do VERY COMPLEX THINGS.  Again, I am only a user
>  > 
>  > That's a good thing about many languages. That's not a problem; it's
>  > that every AMOS program I've ever run into behaves in a completely
>  > unacceptable way. Nuts - I've had more bug reports for AMOS than I
>  > have for ShadowMaster. Because of that, I'm not going to buy a copy,
>  > and I'm certainly not going to pirate one.
> 
> Too bad...  You're the one that's missing out.  (But at least you're honest).

Missing out on what? Programs that don't integrate into the Amiga
environment? Programs that burn the screen out because they interfere
with the blanker? Programs that disable all my favorite commodities?
I suppose I should be glad I missed out on cancer, as well?

	<mike