HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chenowet@rd1632.Dayton.NCR.COM (Steve Chenoweth)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: AMWAY info wanted
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:50:11 GMT
Reply-To: chenowet@rd1632.Dayton.NCR.com (Steve Chenoweth)
Organization: NCR Technology & Development, Dayton, Ohio


Many of us are approached about opportunities all the time, which sound
something like AMWAY.  Some of these, of course, amount to not much more
than pyramid schemes, while others have real long-term potential that
could make all the work pay off.

Thanks to the authors of this thread who helped position where they
believe AMWAY falls on this scale, based on their own experiences.


-- 
Steve.Chenoweth@Dayton.NCR.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: carols@world.std.com (Carol Springs)
Subject: Re: Purchase in home state (was Re: Citibank Horror Story)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:42:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.170235.11351@cs.ucla.edu> wales@CS.UCLA.EDU (Rich 
Wales) writes:

>I have two VISA cards, and when I called their respective customer serv-
>ice lines and asked about this, I got two conflicting interpretations.

>The person I talked to at Citibank said a mail- or phone-order purchase
>is considered to have been made at the location where the company is.

>The person I talked to at Wells Fargo Bank (a major California bank)
>said such a purchase is considered to have been made at the buyer's home
>address.

>Has anyone out there actually gone through this process when the company
>in question was in another state?

Sure.  In my own case, my credit union VISA account was credited for the 
out-of-state mail-order charge.  The company then tried to bill me directly 
for the merchandise I'd never received and no longer wanted, but I got that 
straightened out pretty quickly.  

However, this doesn't answer your underlying question.  Did VISA do this
because it was required to by law, or just out of the goodness of its
li'l corporate heart?  I can see how they might want to interpret the
law liberally, or go beyond the letter of the law as a matter of policy, 
if doing so means better customer relations and fewer people nervous 
about doing mail order using the card. 

In any case, I can't emphasize enough that you should *write* to the credit 
card company when you have a problem and need credit, if you want to protect 
your rights and be assured of some sort of action.  (The "action" might be a
letter saying you haven't pursued the problem enough with the merchant on 
your own, but you should at least get a response.)  Calling is fine, but
follow up with a letter within 60 days of receiving the original bill.
Enclose photocopies of any proof of your (fruitless) attempts to get
satisfaction from the merchant.  Refer to the charge by amount and reference
number, and tell them why it should be credited. 

I think this thread started with someone's story of waiting for a certain
form from a credit card company after his initial call, never getting the 
form, then later being told it was too late to pursue the matter further.
Write, don't wait.
 
 
-- 
Carol Springs                      carols@world.std.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Rockport shoes.
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:03:08 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.182419.10292@pony.Ingres.COM> rion@Ingres.COM
(Rion Cassidy ) writes:

>I looked at Rockport once, but couldn't get a pair to fit properly because 
>they only came in small medium and large.

That's funny, the ones I'm wearing now are size 10 Wide.  In this
style, I tried both 9 1/2 and 10 Medium, and neither fit well.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: ebupaf@ebu.ericsson.se (Pat Fargo 6266)
Subject: Re: SEARS extended warrantys
Reply-To: ebupaf@ebu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Business Communications, Inc.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:41:11 GMT

Two years ago, I bought the top of the line
dishwasher from Sears. This is the digital keypad
model, and was around $500. I got the call
for extended warranty, and refused. One month
after the warranty period, the dishwasher would
not run because it thought the door was open.
A Sears repairman came over, and told me it was
the circuit board, and replacement would be
near $300. We threw out the almost new Sears,
and went and bought a Maytag. No problems from
then on....

---
Patrick A. Fargo		Ericsson Business Communication
				Anaheim, California

Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Subject: Re: Costco & Price Club
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 01:36:29 GMT

Others said:
# So, why should they care? The annual membership fee is just a small part
# of their business profit. 

The fee is not there to directly make money.

The only reason for the membership charge is so that, You,
Joe/Jill Spender says:
	Jeeze, I spent $35.00 bucks to join.
	I gotta buy LOTS of stuff to "make it worthwhile" 
	I'd better go see what they got that I need....


--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: bkwg0457@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Whitlock)
Subject: Re: MSG
Reply-To: bwhitlock@uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:44:35 GMT

nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette) writes:

>In article <1992Jul22.165731.23990@walter.bellcore.com>  
>jchen@cash.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Jason Chen) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul22.164206.732@cs.yale.edu>,  
>nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette) writes:
>> |> In article <1992Jul22.144117.20399@walter.bellcore.com>  
>> |> jchen@cash.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Jason Chen) writes:
>> |> > 
>> |> > There is  no clinical evidence to link MSG to any health problem to a
>> |> > normal person. Even for those who are allergic to it, the symptoms are
>> |> > typically short and mild. Very few had strong reactions, none has died
>> |> > from consuming it.
>> |> 
>> |> Nor is there any good reason to use it.  If the food is fresh,
>> |> you won't need to make your tongue swollen with MSG to enjoy
>> |> the taste.
>> |> 
>> I certainly agree that MSG is not a neccesity of your life. Nor are
>> hot pepper, parsley, cinnamon, or even sugar. As a matter of fact,
>> salt and sugar do more harm to your body than MSG.

>Salt and sugars are naturally occurring substances within
>the human body; MSG is not.  In reasonable quantities,

	Sucrose isn't a naturally occurring substance within the human body.
Other sugars, yes.

>salts and sugars pose no harm to the body.  MSG is a highly

	Sucrose accelerates tooth decay in the quantities used in sweetening
processed foods.

>concentrated substance derived from a natural
>substance.  Hot peppers, spices, etc have inherent taste;

	Sucrose is a highly concentrated substance derived from a natural
substance (sugar cane) just as MSG is derived from seaweed.

>MSG does not, it just makes your tongue swollen. 

	As I understand it, the whole point in using MSG is because of its
inherent taste.

>IMHO, Avoid it in any quantity.

	IMHO, if it doesn't give you headaches or other reactions, don't
worry about it.

>--
>Nathan Janette		"I'm a NeXTstep man,
>Dept MB&B, Yale Univ	 I'm a NeXTcube guy"
>New Haven, CT
>nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (NeXT)

-- 
    * * * * * * --> DISCLAIMER:  I speak only for myself. <-- * * * * * *
Brent Whitlock		Beckman Institute for Advanced Science & Technology
bwhitlock@uiuc.edu	Dept. of Electrical & Computer Engineering
			University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler)
Subject: Re: How to cancel a credit card (Mastercard or Visa)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:02:28 GMT
Organization: Culturale Elit

In <1542@dcsc.dla.mil>, cp01081@dcsc.dla.mil sez:
>
>You mention timing - when I cancelled my Citibank Classic Visa, it was
>right *after* I had been billed for the annual fee...  (That was why I was
>cancelling it! :) )  After the long diatribe with the tele-slime who trys
>to get you to keep the card "For all it's benefits,"  I got a letter in the
>mail about 3 days later - saying that my account balance had been "adjusted"
>for the fees and such - it was removed.  That's about the only *good* thing
>I can say about it...  :)

Two points:

1) If you read the back of the CitiWank statement, you'll note that
you have 30 days *after* receiving the bill assessing the annual fee
to cancel your account w/o charge.  This is the case even if you use
the card during that period.

2) I just canceled in this manner.  Unlike last year, when I
threatened to cancel and they said "Fine", this year they offered to
convert my account to a no-fee, no-frills format.  No travel
insur/warranty prot/loss or damage cover/useless CitiDullards, but
presumably somewhat less junk mail re shopping/travel services.

It looks like Citi is responding, however sluggishly, to the
cardholders who have tired of paying an annual fee on top of absurd
interest rates.  (Hey, I became a "Premier" member last month through
no action on my part, entitling me to accumulate debt at a mere 15.4%
-- ack.)

-- 
      I am George Bush, miwwionaire.  I own a mansion and a yacht.

	Mark Eckenwiler    eck@panix.com    ...!cmcl2!panix!eck
From: jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: State income taxes
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:54:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

I'm going to be moving out of California at the end of August.
Considering that I was a CA resident for most of the year, will I still
have to file a CA state income tax return?  I'm particular interested in
filing because I believe that CA will end up owing me come April 15,
1993.  The state I'm moving to has no state income tax.  Could someone
please inform me if I can do this legally under the CA state tax code?
--

     // JCA

 /*
 ** ARPA    : jadpc!thewall!jca@nosc.mil | "If it's SCO, it's CRAP!"
 ** INTERNET: jca@thewall.cts.com        | 
 **           jca@thewall.uucp           |     - jca@thewall.cts.com
 ** UUCP    : nosc!jadpc!thewall!jca     |        (i.e. me)
 */
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Rechargable Power Tools
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:37:09 GMT

a036450@rd821.UUCP (Bob Goldrich) writes:
: Can anyone tell me what to look for in rechargable power tools?  I'm
: thinking about getting a screw-driver and a drill.  Are all brands
: created more-or-less equal?  Any particular features which you find
: useful?
:                  Bob Goldrich  a036450@rd821.gleason.com

No - they are not created anywhere close to being equal. 

Buy a Makita, Bosch or similar brand.  If you plan on using it much, get
their top of the line unit - you will be glad you did.

Features - Variable speeds, variable clutch, reversible directions, quick
charge batteries/charger, two or three batteries, keyless chuck, carrying
case.

Bill
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.house,misc.rural
From: cnmne@plex-1.ann-arbor.mi.us (Chris Ellinger)
Subject: Re: Weedeater recommendations
Organization: Plex-1, Michigan's Public Access Usenet Gateway  (Ann Arbor).
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:04:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.141916.2638@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> tfisher@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Tom Fisher) writes:
>> |> I am seeking recommendations for good, reliable *gas-powered* Weedeaters.
>> |> A friend of mine suggested Poulan brand. Anybody have any other suggestions?
>
>About two years ago, I was in the market for a string trimmer and
>I happened to meet a park superintendent friend that I hadn't
>seen for several years.  This fellow is responsible for one huge
>municipal park and several other smaller municipal properties.
>As you would expect, there is lots of grass and weeds to look
>after.  When I asked for his preference on string trimmers, he
>answered without hesitation, "We've tried 'em all and Echo is the
>one for us."  
>
(stuff deleted)

I'll second the recommendation of Echo.  I bought one three years ago and 
have cut ACRES of heavy weeds, lots of dogwood, and many small (2-3") trees 
with it.  The only problem I've had is keeping the blades sharpened.  The 
trimmer is a straight shaft type about 35cc.  It starts easily cold or hot, 
runs well, and has plenty of power.  I also recommend the "special" 
two-cycle oil (don't recall the brand name) rather than the standard gas 
station type.  Seems to make a significant power difference.
 
 
Chris Ellinger
Ann Arbor, MI
From: DBBARBER@MACC.WISC.EDU ("Deborah B. Barber")
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: How to cancel a credit card (Mastercard or Visa)
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:44:00 GMT

Misc.consumer folk:  when you cancel a credit card, what is the proper
(that is, effective and self-protective) way of going about it.
 
Do you mail (or UPS, or....?) back the card cut in pieces?  If so, do you
insure it or send it certified or registered mail.  By phone or in writing,
do you tell the issuer WHY you are dropping their card (high fees or
interest rates, etc.)?
 
Deb Barber
standard disclaimer here
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Service at the car dealers
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 02:33:26 GMT

sch@gargoyle.unx.sas.com (Steve Holzworth) writes:
: 
: street prices. Air filter, around $10, unless it's REALLY unusual. Cap
: and rotor cost varies pretty dramatically by car type. You may have an
: electronic ignition, which would be a cap, rotor, and reluctor (replaces
: points). Call it $80, to be generous. They also probably stuck you real

Cap, rotor and reluctor seldom fail on modern cars.

: >I asked them to show me what was wrong - the cracked rubber story was replaced
: >by corrosion story. We got into it. I called the 800 number for Mitsi consumer
: >relations, they paid for the spark plug wires under warranty - so I've got 
: >$80 back.
: >
: >The owners manual is very general about what service needs to be done - it 
: >doesn't tell you whether to replace things or not. I bought the Chilton repai
: >book which is a little more detailed about when to replace things. But I'm
: >still mad - I feel like they can do anything they want, replace whatever, chargeme a month's salary - and there's no way I can know!

Unless it says to replace it, then it seldom needs to be done. If your auto
is still under warranty, then all these things should be covered - parts and
labor. You should have not have to pay extra.

Unless I remember incorrectly, you can even have warranty work done at an
independent shop.

Bill
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: denton@ssd.comm.mot.com (Perry Denton)
Subject: Re: radio/tape/CD players
Organization: Motorola LMPS
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:37:49 GMT
Keywords: junk, garbage,trash, %$#&@n

Just another data point,
Perry
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: dbw@crash.cts.com (David B. Whiteman)
Subject: Re: universal card payments
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:23:28 GMT

In <Jul.21.17.33.37.1992.20357@math.rutgers.edu> kuplinsk@math.rutgers.edu (Julio Kuplinsky) writes:


>I mailed a payment to ATT's Universal Card on July 1st, which was posted on the
>13th, so that finance charges were assessed. It is possible (but
>unlikely) that my letter was 12 days in the mail. 

>Has anyone in the net experience the same problem?

>Julio Kuplinsky

This is exactly the reason I cancelled my ATT Universal Card.  I would mail
payments, and the check will clear, as stamped paid on the check, before
the due date, but the payment would be posted 5 days later, after the due 
date, making me pay finance charges.  Calling and writing customer service
would not do anything -- they would claim that I forgot to include the bill
coupon or something, which was never true.
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: (Oops... sorry Len) Re: Price club doesn't allow noting prices
Date: 21 Jul 92 03:35:53 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA
Originator: daemon@sword.eng.pyramid.com

In article <1992Jul20.162238.1@sol.yorku.ca> haroldt@sol.yorku.ca writes:
>
>  It appeas that I misquoted (via improper cut and paste) what Lon Stowell said
>about the Price Club.  My humblest appologies Lon.  Please don't sic gigabytes
>on me.  ;)
>
   OK Harold, you're forgiven.   

   The Craig Shergold postings have been redirected.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,rec.autos.tech,rec.autos,rec.woodworking
From: (Eric Youngblood)
Subject: Re: Compressors & Air Tools
Reply-To: Peom w/o Email Priv (Eric Youngblood)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:52:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.204034.25466@adobe.com>, pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:

|> >|> In article <1992Jul20.182720.26606@bnr.ca> Peon w/o Email priv
|> >|> >...I will relate my experience purchasing a 3.5 HP 25
|> >|> >gal unit. Paid $299 at Sears. After close inspection this *is* a high quality
|> >|> >piece of equipment. It has a 120/240 15/17.5 amp GE electric direct drive
|> >|> >motor.
|> >|> 
|> >|> In article <1992Jul21.201325.2308@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com
|> >|> (Phil Ngai) writes:
|> >|> >These are Sears horses, of course, about half the size of a real horse.
|> >              ^^^^^
|> >              General Electric horses actually,
|> 
|> Does the nameplate on the MOTOR (as opposed to the compressor) actually
|> have a horsepower rating or only an electrical rating? I expect the
|> horsepower rating was invented by Sears marketing, not GE.
|> 
|> -- 
|> My opinions are my own.

The rating is stamped on a metal plate riveted to the motor housing, HP is
a meaningless term, but most people are not going to understand torque ratings.

The ability of a motor to do work is determined by the amount of torque it can
produce. As was pointed out ordinary house current in the 110VAC 15 Amp variety
comes out to about 2.4 hp. Better motors produce more torque at the same hp
rating than cheaper ones. Your best bet is to get a compressor that is driven
by a motor made by manufacturers that are recognized for their high quality.

I do not know why you feel Sears products are inferior. Sears has used brand
name venders for components in thier product for years. IMO GE builds good electric motors that produce high torque #'s. The tank and pump were manufactured
by DeVilbiss who has built industrial compressor systems for decades.

$0.02
Ericy


From: sandya@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com (Sandy A)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:19:46 GMT
Subject: scratches in formica
Organization: HP Mechanical Design Division
Newsgroups: misc.consumers


Does anyone know how to remove small scratches from Formica countertops,
or at least a way to make them less visible?


Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: jimh@pacdata.uucp (Jim Harkins)
Subject: Re: Tropez 900DX Cordless Phone
Organization: Pacific Data Products
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:38:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul17.131015.18557@wri.com> markm@wri.com writes:
>
>
>With all the talk about cordless phones recently, I thought I'd post  
>information from a brochure for the new (and very expensive) Tropez 900DX  
>cordless telephone.  I wonder if this digital transmission and voice encryption  
>stuff really works?  And is it worth the extra $150-200 over a similar phone  
>without those toys?

Over in comp.dcom.telecom they've been discussing this.  Essentially, the
Tropez is better than the Panasonic (the Panasonic is junk), and if you
have more than 1 the range drops drastically.  The factory knows about the
range problem and is working on it.  I'm waiting for someone to explain
*why* the range drops when more than 1 are in use in the area.  Maybe they
use a spread spectrum or something, I dunno.

jim

-- 
Lawyers Creed:  What's mine is mine, what's yours is negotiable.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Harkins                         [ucsd|uunet]!pacdata!jim
Pacific Data Products               jim@pacdata.com
--------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: jchen@ctt.bellcore.com (C. Jason Chen)
Subject: Re: MSG
Reply-To: jchen@ctt.bellcore.com
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 18:04:16 GMT

In misc.consumers, the discussion should be limited to disclosure of facts.
Hopefully, the truth will prevail in the end. But that is not always the
case. Sometimes, there are conflicting facts. In such conditions, each side
should argue their cases and the readers draw their own conclusions.

In the discussions of MSG, it is clear that there are conflicting facts.
On one hand, FDA and many European governments have clinically proven
the safty of MSG (the fact I am conveying). On the other hand, some 
individuals are convinced that they were sickened by MSG.

That should be the end. Right? No, unfortunately. Some people have to
engage in personal character attack in order to discredit the other side.
To such attacks, I have no choice but to respond. 

In article <1992Jul23.213041.29358@pony.Ingres.COM>, rion@Ingres.COM (Rion Cassidy (x3357) OGT) writes:
|> 
|> If anyone out there has a psychological analysis as to why net people get 
|> so carried away and hostile, I would like to hear it, but via email, OK?
|> 
I will give you the psychological analyses. First, on you. You have a
over simplified view of people. You believe people are motivated by
materialistic interests, maybe because you are one. When someone speaks
out because a sense of rightfulness, you must figure out what the
*REAL* motives are. 

Why I spoke up on this issue? Because I watched the 60 Minutes episode 
on MSG. I felt that it was not a balanced report.  People could be
misled. Yes, I have a Chinese heritage, and I and other 100 million
Chinese and Japanese (and many other races) have had MSG in our diets
regularly. We are all well.  If some day 60 Minutes reported a handful
of people who are allergic to ketchup, and therefore promoted to ban it. 
What would you react to it?

Back to your original question:

|> My guess is that with your unusually defensive attitude and obviously 
|> Chinese name, you have some relatives who own a Chinese restaurant that
|> you believe has suffered financially because of the "MSG scare".  Am 
|> I close at all?

Here is my official answer:

"Neither I, nor any of my family, my relatives in the US (5), and to
the best of my knowledge, my friends, owns or works in the restaurant
business, or has any financial interest related to MSG."

If I insulted you intelligence, it was not intentional.
There is not much to insult to begin with.
-- 

C. Jason Chen                 
**************E-Mail: jchen@ctt.bellcore.com
**************V-Mail: (908)699-6993
**************P-Mail: 444 Hoes Lane, 1E229, Piscataway, NJ




-- 

C. Jason Chen                 
**************E-Mail: jchen@ctt.bellcore.com
**************V-Mail: (908)699-6993
**************P-Mail: 444 Hoes Lane, 1E229, Piscataway, NJ
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu (Mike Suter)
Subject: Re: Cellular Phone Service
Organization: BITS, St. Louis, MO
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:28:21 GMT

monty%roscom@think.com (Monty Solomon) writes:

>Cellular One/Boston offers the Leisure Plan for $29/month which includes  
>unlimited off-peak airtime.  Peak airtime is $0.50/minute.

"Unlimited off-peak airtime" sounds good, but remember to check what
the peak hours are.  One of the local (St. Louis) cellular companies
recently (quietly) extended peak hours to 9 pm.

Mike
-- 
mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu

Newsgroups: misc.consumers