From: john@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: separation of church and state
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 22:15:52 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division, Austin, TX

In article <1992Jul24.074205.25941@sneaky.lonestar.org>, gordon@sneaky.lonestar.org (Gordon Burditt) writes:
 
|> Is there really that much difference between "don't steal", "if you 
|> steal you will go to jail", and "stealing is wrong"?

Yes.  I happen to agree that stealing, in general, is wrong, so let me
use a different example.  If you gamble in Texas (except horse racing,
lottery, and "charity" bingo), you will go to jail.  I don't think
gambling is wrong.  There are a lot of things that are against the law
in Texas that I don't think are wrong:  prostitution, homosexual sex,
possession of pliers, possession of certain drugs, flirting, etc.,
etc. ad infinitum.  Saying that doing these may land you in jail is 
perfectly fine (although I'm not sure a public school is an
appropriate place to review the state's penal code in detail).  
Saying that they are "wrong" is not ok, IMHO, because "wrong" is a
matter of opinion. 

|> Schools certainly claim they have jurisdiction over material brought
|> onto school property.  Most employers do, also.

I'm not saying they don't have the right.  I'm saying that it's a
waste of time and money for a school to enforce drug possession laws. 
As a taxpayer, I'm concerned about tax-financed schools wasting
money.

|> Add to this that
|> students, except perhaps some of the older high-school students, can't 
|> legally purchase cigarettes, alcohol, or recreational drugs, and there is
|> justification for a restriction on students but not teachers.  If you
|> don't like that, get the law changed.

The only legitimate reason a school would restrict smoking is because
the smoke is a hazard to other people who must work / study in that
environment.  If the students aren't allowed to smoke, then the
teachers shouldn't be either.

|> Some schools claim considerable control over medicinal drugs, to
|> the exasperation of some parents.  The school is supposed to dispense
|> all drugs to students, including the case where a student is given
|> two aspirin to take at lunch, with the advice of a doctor and at
|> the direction of his parents.
|>
|> [Junior High student hospitalized because school nurse couldn't be
|>  bothered to give her insulin]

You gave some fine examples of the problems caused by this current
wave of drug hysteria.

|> How does a teacher monitoring recess tell when a fight crosses the line 
|> between a consensual fist fight and one student getting severely beaten?
|> Hopefully the guideline is not the amount of spilled blood or a student
|> attempting to yell for a doctor.  

OK, I'll concede.  It's probably too hard to distinguish.

|> No fighting.

OK

|> No disrupting class with insults.

This is too specific.  How about "No disrupting class".

|> No refusing to work with an assigned partner for a project.

What if your "assigned partner" is a screw-off who won't do the work? 

|> No refusing to let "them" sit next to you in class.

Students should be able to sit where they want.  If Joey sits next to
me and I hate Joey, I should be able to move.

|> No threats of death or violence.

I guess I could go along with this.  It's anti-free speech, but it
would make for a hostile learning environment, and students are
required to attend.

|> Refer to students in class by name, not by {race, religion, sex, ethnic
|> 	background, etc.}.

This is reasonable if it helps to maintain order in class.

|> Just where do you think students can have sex in school without it
|> being disruptive?  

"Making love in the tall grass behind the stadium with you"
(with apologies to Van Morrison)

|> An in-school *SURGICAL* clinic?  Is this really necessary?  

Probably not, but if there were such a clinic, I see no reason to
abolish a particular kind of procedure.

-- 
John Iacoletti    IBM AWD Austin    Internet: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
     "Faith:  not *wanting* to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Newsgroups: tx.politics