From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: What is  H a m a s ??
Date: 1 Jan 1993 03:45:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



Aziz Faris, whose the bottom of his shoe is more honest and humane than a 
muslim man like me, writes:

>In article <1ht9obINN3s6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
>|> 
>|> Sorry to say that is your understanding is totally wrong.  Where in Quran
>|> tht such a verse exist?  Go ahead and try to find one, maybe you will
>|> prove to yourself that you know nothing about what islam teaches.
>|> 
>|> The most dangerous thing is to talk about something that you
>|> don't know about.

>Well then you are either a lier or those Muslims who have told me that is what
>the Qur'an said are liers. Are you supporting the general view the west has
>that Arabs have no respect for life by killing people because they are not
>Muslims?.

Why don't you get in touch with your muslim friends and asked them to tell
you where "Islam tells muslims to fight those who destroy their faith."?
You either a lier or your muslim friends are deceiving you.  Ask Hashim 
and Gawad to help you on this.

>|> 
>|> It is my business to calm down or not.  Actually the semester is
>|> over for me now.  :-)
>|> Anyways, Why don't you tell this to yourself and stop posting your
>|> famous phrase, "Islam and all religion had failed thousand of years ago."
>|> Did I tell you to calm down??

>Well prove that they did not fail in solving the present problems facing the
>Arabic populus. Tell us how the Arabic world got where it is and how religion
>provides the solution. I asked you to prove me wrong back then, prove it now.

I don't have to prove it to you.  Other people did, but there is a difference
b/w someone who writes about the good side of islam and someone who writes 
about lies and misinterpetations.  Afterall I am a religious blind person
and my proof is not good enough for a highly educated man in humanity
and social behaviors.

>|> Your posts and what goes on in Iraq, Bosnia, Algeria, Izerbajan, etc are
>|> self-explanatory.  Dont come and tell me look at Somalia!  It is part
>|> of their startegy: kill them in many countries and feed them in another,
>|> just to decieve them.

>I think you are religiously blind. The issues facing the above countries are
>not religious based, they are political. Let us take it one by one.

Political, huh.  The same as Abbassi, Fatami, Amaawi, etc.  They all
got nothing to do with religions.  Islam just happened to conquer in the 
Middle east by coincidence.  Islam timing was emazing to emerge as a super
power as both Roman and Persian empire vanished by themselves.
It is all political and Islam was so lucky...
This is what you Mr. Honest Shoe is trying to tell us.  No credit
to Islam and muslims whatsoever.  The only credit is the credit that you
give to judasim and christianity that it is a good religion to fight
cirme and drugs.  Islam Mr. Shoe is coming back whether you like it or
not.  Islam stood for Roman and Persian empire and defeated them.  Islam
history tells you how muslims fought romans and defeated them despite
the fact romans were in hundred of thousands and muslims were only in
tens of thousands.  At the time of Omer Bin Abdel Aziz there was no 
single poor man to give charity to. At the time there was no single theaft
case.  Do we find this in the west or in your secular thinking?  we find
homeless, saving and loan scandles, raping rate every 3 minutes, teenager
shooting every 1/2 hour, crime rate on the increase, discrimination, etc.. 

>Iraq: The west would have done what it did to Iraq if it was 100% Christians,
>since the primary objective is securing the western oil supply.

Also, the primary object was to weaken muslims by stiking their power in Iraq.
If iraq is not islamic today, maybe sometimes it will be.  Therefore, weaken it
before they come..

Rabin on a question asked why he objects the sale of weapons to saudi
arabia had said. "saudi arabia is not a hostile country at this time,
but what gurantees this 20 years from now."

"The biggest problem that the west will face after the cold war era
is islamic fundamentalists."  Nixon.

>Bosnia: The heart of the conflict is the fact that Bosnia has Serbs that prefer
>to remain part of Serbia. It is not a religious conflict as you think. However,
>you religious blindfold tells you it is a conflict between Christians and
>Muslims when those same people existed in harmony for over 70 years.

My religious blindfold tells me it is muslims who are getting killed,
murdered, raped, kicked out, etc.  It is the mosques that getting dismanteled.
It is muslim bloodshed that is happening.  It is caused by christian serbs.
What Mr. Boutros of yours doing? nothing..  If it were not muslim bloodshed, 
you will see things differently..

Muslims were opressed for 70 years, and when they wanted to be independent,
it is not right and they have to go.  Look before 100 years, you will see
all of this country was governed by islam and these people are retaliating
for no reason other than they were loyals to islam at that time.  What 
we see in bosnia is what we saw in spain.  it is christians who drove
muslims out and murdered them.

>Algeria: It is an internal conflict that has nothing to do with Christians
>and Muslims. Christians are less than 2% of the population if I am not mistaken.

Christianity doesn't exist in Algeria.  Why christians kept silent when the
islamic party won the election?  they said algerians have not yet learned
democracy-- democracy for anything but islam.

>Azerbajan: Again the Issue here is land not religion, the fact that Armenia is
>Christianised is a mere coincidence that adds fuel to the fire.

armainans go and kill muslims in their villages in azaerbajan.  the west 
keeps silent. they even helping them with arms and weapons.

One more thing, were the crusaders a political thing too?
When these christians came they made the alaqsa mosque a house for
their horses and killed muslims in thousands.  Later when they came to the
middle east at the time of conloization, one of their top leaders went to
the grave of salah Eldeen and kicked it and said, "here we are back 
salah Eldeen. get up if you can!"

>|> 
>|> I can tell historical things on how much europe and the west benifited
>|> from muslims, but lets leave that aside...

>No one denies those contribution, however you amplify them beyond any
>imagination.

proud of it. 

>|> 
>|> Really, what you are saying is reminding me of a story in the Quran about
>|> Moses and Pharaon.  When Moses came and asked Pharaon to beleive in him
>|> and asked him to send jews with him, Pharaon told him that how come you,
>|> Moses, started making trouble and are not accepting me as your God.  He also
>|> told him that you were among us and we raised you since you were a baby and
>|> did so many favors for you, and now look what you are doing, you are not
>|> appreciating what we've done to you.  -- The same like what you're telling
>|> me, you are beign educated by christians --  Moses told him this:  How do you
>|> compare this such a favour to what you are doing to the people of Israel who
>|> you are killing and murdering their boys, making them slaves, and humilating
>|> them.
>|> 
>|> -Al Hamdolilah Al thee Ja'alana Muslimeen and learn from Quran-

>Tell me how come you do not get your University education from the Qur'an.

irrelevant question.  "learn from quran" doesn't mean don't learn anything
but quran.  islamic scientists proved that to you.

>Did you know that the word Qur'an is derived from the Aramaic word Qiryana?.
>The Aramaic church has a religious book called the Qiryana that is similar to
>the Qur'an only hundreds of years ealier.

What do you mean by similar? because it has the same name derivation.
Did the phrase "fight those who destroy your faith" come from this 
aramaic book?  Maybe that's why you can't find it.  Hint: try the muslim one.

>Offcourse, you did not know that otherwise you will not continiously shove
>your feet in your mouth.

The nature of a deseprate hopless man! 

I really see unstable behavior in you.. sometime you start saying:
Dear Hamza... others, standup comedian, barbaric....
then Dear Hamza again... then back to ugly names... 
is dear Hamza next or what?

Is that what you expert in "social behavior and humanity."?  You
better go and see a psycho before you get a heart-attack.

>|> 
>|> By the same token, my education doesn't count as a favor to what christians
>|> are doing to muslims all over the world.  Like some jews argue that by
>|> their little help to muslims in Bosnia, Palestine should be left for them.

>I did not say it is a favour, and it should not be one either. Knowledge and
>education is universal, open your mind and accept others.

If kowledge and education is universal, don't tell "look you're getting
educated by christians."

>|> 
>|> France at time of conolizing Algeria, erased the arabic language from it
>|> for 3 generations.  The algerian who used to get caught reading any arabic
>|> paper would go to jail for 10-15 years.  Sabrah and Shatilah and the Gulf
>|> war are not too far ago,  and stories go on and on.  This is the
>|> christianity that has a favor on me.  If it were not for their cunning
>|> and unfair policy in the middle east, I would have not been here.

>Is the above driven by religion or political conquest and colonialism. Didn't
>Islam attempt to erase the languages of areas that were part of the ISlamic
>empire and replace it with Arabic.

Islam didn't erase that by persecuting people and sending poeple to prisons.
If somebody finds Islam to be his religion and believes in it, then it is
his/her business to learn both languages or not.  And that what happened,
people realized the language of the quran is the one they ought to use.

Plus you mr. arab league supporter (Hafiz Baath league), if it were not for
islam, these all arab countries from iraq in the east to morraco in the west
would have not spoken one language, and would have not have similar cultures
which are the basic principles for your arab league.  islam in this played 
no role?  or did it?

>Is the tragedy at Sabra and Shatilah due
>to a religious conflict?. I do not know how you claim to be faithful and
>be a distort the facts. 

Whose blood was shed?  muslims or christians? The facts may look
distorted to you, but not to me who don't forget what the people
of the book are doing and had done to muslims.

>|> 
>|> Do you mean that Islam is contrudicting itself? Or do you mean
>|> that I don't understand Islam?

>Both !!!!!!!!

A good sign that you don't hate islam.  If you can't quote me
a verse in quran, how can you expect me to beleive in this
"both" answer.

>|> 
>|> You know very well that is not true.  Previous people explained to you
>|> that Islam gives the people of the book full autonomy and they are free
>|> to do whatever they like as long as there is no conflict with Islam values.
>|> Islam had done this, and is going to do it.

>All Islamic countries demand that you must be a Muslim to hold a high public
>position.

What islamic countries, like iraq or iran?  In a muslim state a christian
man like yourself should be happy with islam rules as it gives the
minority autonomy.  If they are the majority, they choose their own government
officials and they are free to do whatever they want as long as they don't harm
islam and muslims inside or outside.  If you don't like this, jump in the lake.

>|> If you don't like for the Islam to govern and be a major power, it is
>|> a different story.

>I did not say that, you think that Non-Muslims feel that way because you
>lack knowledge about humanity and their social behaviour. You feel that way
>because you are paranoid and cannot handle and deal with the facts.

What facts are you talking about?  Whatever facts they are from a muslim point
of view is not the same from a christian one.  When you say interest is ok
as a christian, it is not ok as a muslim, and so on and so forth.  If you
like muslims to stop quoting quran and put it up to people like you and
their prersonal views, they would not be muslims at all.

>|> 
>|> The same like you..

>You do not know me. The bottom of my shoe is more honest and humane than you
>are!. You hide behind Islam, I do not hide behind any religion.

Yes I know you very well.  That is how much christians like muslims, islam
has never been wrong.  You're like the snake once it feels that it is trapped
it starts giving out poison.

you're losing control again, go and see a psycho, you'll feel better.

>|> Christmas and Hanuka are not islamic.

>You are not supposed to be educated and living among Non-Muslims according
>to you. Why not go back to the M.E. and become a sheppard then.

According to who?  Who says so?
A shepherd is not a bad thing.  Jesus(pbuh) and his followers
used to be ones.  Aren't you proud of coming from a country 
that has shepherds?  I thought you like going back to your 
country.

>A.Faris (Mr. Honest Shoe)
-- 
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