HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yarnot@csusac.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot)
Subject: Re: Young Adult Books
Organization: Moi?
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 19:52:08 GMT

In article <23JUL199209322530@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov> calvo@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sherri Calvo) writes:
>
>Does anyone remember the "Betsy, Tacy and Tib" series? I don't 
>remember who wrote these but I used to dig old copies out of the 
>Brooklyn Public Library. My mother read them as a kid, and recommended 
>them to me. Another series I got into the same way was a group of 
>books the titles of which all ended in "Shoes". I must have read 
>"Ballet Shoes" dozens of times.
>
Maud Hart Lovelace, and they have been reprinted in paperback.  The Betst-Tacy
books stand up well to re-reading, as do the Little House books which you
mention later.  Betsy grows up to travel to Europe just before the Great
War, and to marry the man of her dreams.

Another "when I was a girl" series that didn't do it for me on re-reading
was the Beany Malone books by (?I think) another Webster.  The Malones
are middle-America in the 50s, pretty much when I was growing up, but they
don't have the charm of Betsy-Tacy or Laura Ingalls.

On the thread of the noble heroine crying herself to death, when *They* finally
come to appreciate her qualities, my grandmother LOVED "Elsie Dinsmore."  I
couldn't believe it, what a wimp!  She wept and whined her way through heaven
knows how many books, and They always picked on her.  I got the feeling if
she'd stood up for herself just once, things would have gone better in future.

Pollyanna was always, well, Pollyanna-ish, but I still enjoyed the book.  And
THE SECRET GARDEN was always a favorite, too, and PBS did OK with it.  I can't
wait to see the musical.  
>
>Sherri Chasin Calvo
>
-- 
---Jan Yarnot, net.grandma.-- | A lifetime of smirking behind your hand
                              | is a lot better than a few seconds of
                              | triumph.
CSUS depends on my every word.              Kinsella, _Box Socials_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper)
Subject: Ambrose Bierce request
Organization: ORA Corporation
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:04:38 GMT

Does anyone know where I can find Bierce's one-pager, "The Ingenious
Patriot"?  I've tried several Bierce anthologies, with no success.  Any
help would be greatly appreciated.
-- 
Douglas Harper     | ORA Corporation | 301A Dates Drive | Ithaca, NY 14850 
harper@oracorp.com | (607) 277-2020  | FAX: 277-3206    | USA
From: jon@mitre.org (J. E. Shum)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Notable reading list (WAS: Nobel winners)
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:14:49 GMT
Organization: W.A.S.T.E.
Originator: jon@cyclone


     For people who may have found the Nobel and Pulitzer winners 
lists a little too recent and/or pedestrian I offer the 
following:

St. John's College
Annapolis, Maryland and Santa Fe, New Mexico

Freshman Required Reading List
------------------------------       
Aeschylus    - Agamemnon
Aeschylus    - Choephoroe
Aeschylus    - Eumenides
Aeschylus    - Prometheus Bound
Archimedes   - Essays
Aristophones - Clouds
Aristotle    - Generation of Animals
Aristotle    - Metaphysics
Aristotle    - Nicomachean Ethics
Aristotle    - On Generation and Corruption
Aristotle    - Parts of Animals
Aristotle    - Physics
Aristotle    - Poetics
Aristotle    - Politics, The
Avogadro     - Essays
Black        - Essays
Cannizzaro   - Essays
Euclid       - Elements
Euripides    - Bacchae
Euripides    - Hippolytus
Fahrenheit   - Essays
Harvey       - Motion of the Heart and Blood
Herodotus    - Histories
Homer        - Iliad
Homer        - Odyssey
Lavosier     - Elements of Chemistry
Lucretius    - On the Nature of Things
Nicomachus   - Arithmetic
Pascal       - Essays
Plato        - Apology
Plato        - Crito
Plato        - Gorgias
Plato        - Meno
Plato        - Parmenides
Plato        - Phaedo
Plato        - Phaedrus
Plato        - Republic
Plato        - Sophist
Plato        - Symposium
Plato        - Theatetus
Plato        - Timaeus
Plutarch     - Alcibiades
Plutarch     - Lycurgus
Plutarch     - Pericles
Plutarch     - Solon
Thucydides   - Pelopennesian War
Torricelli   - Essays

Disclaimer:  I have no connection to St. Johns other than wishing 
I could afford to read there.  All spelling errors and typos are 
mine.
--
CONNECT THE GOD-DAMNED DOTS!!!  Ministry, TV Song
-- 
<jon@mitre.org>|--------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------| Libertarian Party  
  Andre Marrou    Nancy Lord for  | 1528 Pennsylvania Avenue SE  (202)543-1988
  for President   Vice-President  | Washington, DC 20003         (800)682-1776
From: stamant@elux2.cs.umass.edu (ROBERT STAMANT)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Date: 24 Jul 92 13:51:16 GMT
Reply-To: stamant@elux2.cs.umass.edu (ROBERT STAMANT)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <24044@castle.ed.ac.uk> ramscar@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Ramscar) writes:
>Why is it that people find Dickens' character names so difficult? Is this
>not another case of the rejection of something in fiction - "No, far 
>too fantastic" - that one might not even think twice about in "real life".

Last year in the International Herald Tribune there was a photo of the
bulls running in Pamplona, with a caption mentioning that one of the
participants injured was a Scandinavian tourist named Urban Troll.  How
perfect.

Rob St. Amant
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Great American Novel
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:47:09 GMT

Another candidate for your inspection:

          Gore Vidal, "Myra Breckenridge"
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kz08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ken Zuroski)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: need help with book title
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:52:29 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

A long time ago, when I was about twelve or fourteen years old, I read
a young adult's sci fi book that had this plot: two boys had black rings
which they could rub and then whisper a date into, and then they would
be whisked back into time to that date. I forget much else of the book other
than that they went back in time and collected on or many dinosaurs. There
was some other business about a carnival sideshow, at the beginning of
the book, at which they first saw these dinosaurs; there was some sort
of fire in which most of the dinosaurs died. Oh, and I think they found
one after the big fire; they also found the original owner of the rings,
who gave them the rings before he died of . . . something. I think the
reason they went back in time is because they wanted to return the 
surviving dinosaur to its native time period.

Is it also possible, now that I am remembering, that there was at some
point in the book an encounter with some sort of native people, who were
dying because of a lack of sulfur, and so the boys left a chicken with
them so that they could get sulfur from eggs? --No; that was a different
book, about two boys who went somewhere in space in some sort of spacecraft
(surprisingly enough). Never mind.

Any help with titles and/or authors for either of these books would be
very much appreciated.

ken

---
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ken Zuroski
Department of English
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213 USA
kz08@cmu.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:12784 alt.books.reviews:7
From: liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.books.reviews
Subject: Re:  Isaac Asimov
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:00:52 GMT+12
Distribution: world
Organization: It's Home, really...

In article <1992Jul20.093502@IASTATE.EDU> mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin) writes:
>
>Oh, I dunno.  I'm a big fan of Heinlein, but I'd have to say Joshua was
>pretty much on the mark.
>
Aw, come on people, anyone who can write a 'come back' SF novel with a trip
to Oz (...the real one, not Australia) and a guest appearance by a Lensman
has gotta have an imagination, a sense of humour and his tongue pressed
firmly in his cheek :-) .

Mind you trying to tie _every_ character into the one story throughout the
last few books was a bit suspect, however you gotta admire the attempt.
I mean there were characters from 'Space Family Stone' pulled into it...

--
 Liam Greenwood ------ liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz ------ Wanganui, N.Z.
                Don't tell my Mother I'm a programmer,
              she thinks I'm a piano player in a brothel

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Recent Reading
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:44:21 GMT

> fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis) writes:

>_Utz_ should be read in conjunction with the posthumous collection
>of Chatwin's essays, _What Am I Doing Here_. There are any number of
>short pieces in the collection which seem like spade work for the
>fiction. 
>
>While _Utz_ can be read straight up, the fact that Chatwin thought
>he was dying of a rare and exotic bone disease which he contracted
>in China turns the elegant, chilly themes of _Utz_ into something
>a little more Purgatorial...

That was the cause to which his death was attributed
in his obituary in The New York Times, but it was
subsequently revealed that he died of AIDS.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Or Shakespeare either (was: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 12:04:45 GMT

Clayton Cramer writes:

	Ignorance is collegiate story: a friend of mine, a traditional
	aged college student (unlike me) was talking to a classmate before
	biology started.  The classmate (born and educated in the U.S.) 
	mentioned that she had been amazed at the things she found in her
	American history text: "Did you know we had a Civil War?"

	I suppose if Ice-T made a rap music video about it, and MTV ran
	it, there might be hope for the next generation to at least have
	a superficial knowledge -- instead of none at all.

	"Kill Your Television," sounds better and better.

Ken Burns' TV series, *The Civil War* has probably affected more people's
understanding of the Civil War than all the books put end-to-end. It would
make an interesting addendum to a National Curriculum.

							Fido
From: matt@physics.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Dickens vs. Twain
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:36:40
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
	<yzfmz!q@lynx.unm.edu> <64122@hydra.gatech.EDU>
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu's message of 22 Jul 92 19:58:50 GMT

In article <64122@hydra.gatech.EDU> barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:

> >	and there is a very good novelette about the devil
> >	that for the life of me I can't recall the name
> >	(The Perfect Stranger, the Unknown Stranger??).
> >
> "Mysterious Stranger", I believe.

The story is a bit more complicated than this, however.  _The
Mysterious Stranger_ was never published in Twain's lifetime, and so,
as with all posthumous works, it is difficult to say which version of
this work, if any, should be considered "authentic."

Twain wrote several distinct versions of this story, only the last of
which he called by the title _The Mysterious Stranger_.  The first
version was called, I believe, "Diary of a Young Satan," but the devil
has disappeared entirely from the last version.  (Note also that the
last version is novel-length, not novella-length.)

The situation is especially confusing because when this story was
first published, in 1916, the editor took extraordinary liberties with
the text, intermingling several of the versions.  Fortunately, the
original texts have now been available for several years.

And, incidentally, this story is a good example of one reason why it
would never have occurred to me to compare Twain and Dickens: Dickens
was a sentimentalist, but Twain, especially in the last years of his
life, was nothing of the sort.  He was always rather savage in his
observations about society (Could you ever imagine Dickens writing
something like "Disgraceful persecution of a boy," Twain's piece about
anti-Chinese racism in San Francisco?), but towards the end of his
life, some of his writing became extremely bitter.  _The Mysterious
Stranger_ makes it clear that Twain did not think of the human race as
anything partcularly noble or elevated.
--
Matthew Austern              I dreamt I was being followed by a roving band of
(510) 644-2618               of young Republicans, all wearing the same suit,
matt@physics.berkeley.edu    taunting me and shouting, "Politically correct
austern@theorm.lbl.gov       multiculturist scum!"... They were going to make
austern@lbl.bitnet	     me kiss Jesse Helms's picture when I woke up.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:12859 rec.arts.sf.misc:2145 rec.humor:24275 alt.folklore.urban:19508
From: bhaddad@clubzen.fidonet.org (Barbara Haddad)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibolo
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 15:05:04 PST
Organization: Club Zen BBS - Fidonet/Internet - +1 408 734 2289

bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (MAC) writes:

> In article <1992Jul21.192624.2214@venice.sedd.trw.com> gilmore@venice.sedd.tr
> >In article <Brq09A.CCI@hatch.socal.com> richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenber
> >>>In article <BrL9wz.F2F@news.udel.edu>, stabosz@chopin.udel.edu (Rae Stabos
> >>> Hi,
> >> 
> >>> My daughter would like to prove to someone that Isaac Asimov has died.
> >>
> >>Acording to the editorial in the 9/92 issue of Isaac Asimov's SF Magazine,
> >>he died April 6, 1992 :-(((
> >>
> >>He was 72 years old and had been ill for about a year.
> >>
> >>RIP Isaac.
> >^^^^ ^^^^^
> >
> >NOT Isaac!  He's up there raising H*** with someone!
> >
> 
> Ah, a-hem, that would be *down* there.
> 

    .........ah, come on, we all know he didn't believe in an afterlife.  
Right now Asimov is waiting to be recycled.  If anyone has a kid 6 or so 
months from now that starts crawling off to type madly on their 
typewriter, we'll know he's back in the saddle again.  ;)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barbara Haddad -> (bhaddad@clubzen.fidonet.org)
From: bonness@cae.wisc.edu (Matthew Bonness)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Arancia all' Orologeria
Keywords: Nadsat, tolchock, chelloveck
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:02:12 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

I just read Burgess' _A Clockwork Orange_, a most
interesting and compelling book. I especially liked
his invention of a new language for the narration.
Can anyone suggest any other books with this feature?
(I hope it's not endemic to just this book). Also,
are any of the other Burgess books commensurate to
this one and worth reading?

Thanks.

------
Matt.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Ahasuerus
Keywords: Dorothy L. Sayers, Wimsy, Persian king, Wandering Jew, cat
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:51:15 GMT

Mujtaba Ghouse writes:

	re: Dorothy L. Sayers `Busman's Honeymoon', in which the cat of the
	Dowager Duchess of Denver (Peter Wimsy's mother) is named Ahasuerus.

	I was reading `Busman's Honeymoon' last night (pure joy), and at the 
	end of the book, while the newlyweds are visitng Peter's mother, she 
	mentions Ahasuerus the Persian: "... like poor Agag - not in the 
	Bible, of course, but the one before Ahasuerus, he was a blue 
	Persian..."

	and I can't help thinking that her cat might well have been Persian, 
	too (what else would a Duchess's cat be?) so not only was DLS 
	familiar with the Old Testament Ahasuerus, but IMHO the cat is more 
	likely to have been named after him than the other.

	Ah! such discoveries are what make life worth living...

Of course. How obvious it now seems. I bow to superior wisdom.

	"Somewhere else, the tea is getting cold."

Woops! You're right. Darjeeling in the best Crown Derby of course.

						Fido	


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: The Writings of Socrates
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:42:17 GMT


zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:

> egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:

> I am of course experienced in teaching and have read the
> writings of Socrates.

I'd love to know where Ed found a copy of the writings of Socrates.
Perhaps it was in the secret room in the library at Princeton, next
to Aristotle's treatise on comedy?

> I interrupt this fascinating debate between my two favorite culture
> mavens only to announce that the above pearl is hereby entering my
> collection of exemplary samples of Edward G. Nilges' wit and wisdom.

And with good reason.  I want to thank Mr. Zeleny for pointing this one out.

Mark

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13315 misc.legal:15047
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,misc.legal
Subject: Re: The Writings of Socrates
Date: 29 Jul 92 03:50:56 GMT
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex

Others said:
# >> egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
# >> I am of course experienced in teaching and have read the
# >> writings of Socrates.

# >I'd love to know where Ed found a copy of the writings of Socrates.
# >Perhaps it was in the secret room in the library at Princeton, next
# >to Aristotle's treatise on comedy?
# I figured that that Ed simply had a library card at the Library of Babel.

Baderdash...
Ed went to THE #1 info source in the world.

You mean, your site does NOT get alt.socrates?
What kind of net.burg do you live in anyhow?

[Of course it's true - I saw it in alt.folkore urban!]
--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Unspoken Words
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:51:19 GMT

Scooter Corleone writes:

	As a person who reads a lot, I find I have a large vocabulary 
	of words that I have only read; I've never spoken them or heard 
	them. As a result, I know what the words mean, but I don't always 
	know how to pronounce them.  Since I've been reading a lot of 
	Faulkner lately, I've made considerable additions to this vocabulary 
	of unspoken words.

	Here's an example: miasma. It's not a word you'd usually drop into
	day-to-day speech. I was discussing this word in the context of 
	unspoken words with a friend recently, and we disagreed about how 
	the word should be pronounced: He suggested "my-asthma", while I 
	preferred "my-ass-ma". (Both pronunciations are useful when you're 
	reading Faulkner.)

Try me-AZ-mer on for size, a rather common pronunciation in England where
the word is quite well-known. 

						Fido
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: donofrio@nereid.sal.ists.ca (Frank D'onofrio)
Subject: Zorba the Greek
Organization: Space Astrophysics Laboratory, ISTS, Toronto, Canada
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 16:35:10 GMT


 Hello. I would just like to hear from anyone who has read ZtG. Tell me
 what you thought about it, what you got from it, etc. 


Frank
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: R.A.B party
Keywords: Party games?
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:27:13 GMT
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

In article <1992Jul30.005206.5731@Csli.Stanford.EDU> emma@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Emma Pease) writes:
>In <1992Jul29.222303.757@leland.Stanford.EDU> gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere) writes:
>
>>    I think we're going to need a R.A.B. drinking game.  First, everyone
>>brings your favorite port, sherry, or single malt scotch.  Then hoist a
>>glass for each instance of:  

	[various offenses and forfeits therefore deleted]
...

This is definitely starting to sound like a blast  (I beg your pardon, I
repeat myself again.  3 sips)

>
>ps. May we add Darjeeling to the drinks mention above?

Of course.  But be careful, someone may try to add their drinks
to your tea, instead.

I would like to suggest a liberal supply of Old Bushmills, and
perhaps a Callahanian fireplace.

>pps. When and where should the party be? :-)

Ah, perhaps there can be more than one?  That way, the party can
travel, even if some of us cannot.



-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: 9141995@firga.sun.ac.za (JH Hofmeyr)
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Organization: Electronic Engineering, University of Stellenbosch, South Africa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:05:42 GMT

In article <Brq09A.CCI@hatch.socal.com> richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg) writes:
>From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
>Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
>Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 03:55:57 GMT

>>In article <BrL9wz.F2F@news.udel.edu>, stabosz@chopin.udel.edu (Rae Stabosz) writes:
>> Hi,
> 
>> My daughter would like to prove to someone that Isaac Asimov has died.
>> This person, a real fan of Asimov's, refuses to believe it.  She's
>> also got $20 riding on this.  Can someone give me either his actual
>> date of death, or at least the month?  She's going to start looking
>> through newspaper archives, but all we can remember is that it was
>> maybe sometime in winter.

>Acording to the editorial in the 9/92 issue of Isaac Asimov's SF Magazine,
>he died April 6, 1992 :-(((

>He was 72 years old and had been ill for about a year.

>RIP Isaac.

>-- 
>                
>Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com

Ah! At last someone who answers a question!

Thanks Rich.
**   ~~~~~/   /   /*  JH Hofmeyr                * "If I want a kettle, I buy **
**     / /   /   / *  9141995@sunvax.sun.ac.za  *   one, I don't buy a 486   **
**    / /~~~/~~~/  *  Univ of Stellenbosch      *    to do the job!          **
**\__/ /   /   /   *  South Africa              *                  -- Meself **
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Explanations of endings.
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:48:02 GMT


I wrote:

>pete@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au (Peter Staples) writes:

>> I've just finished reading Huxley's Brave New World. At the end
>> of the book when John . . . [ending of book deleted]

>> While I'm on the subject of endings.... two other books I have read
>> recently spring to mind.

>> Patrick Suskind's Perfume  . . . [ending of book deleted]

>> John Fowles Magus  .... does anyone want to explain that ending? I
>> realise the book is about manipulation... but I still didn't like the
>> ending.

>> It's getting to where I'm scared to read a last chapter!

> If Peter keeps giving away the endings of books, then I, too, am scared
> to have him read the last chapter.

Thinking about it now, even though the word "Spoiler" is not in the
subject line, the subject should have been warning enough.  I hope
Peter will accept my apologies.  

It has been too long since I've read THE MAGUS or BRAVE NEW WORLD
to comment on his question.  I suspect that the BNW comment is
more descriptive than symbolic.

Mark