From: jochenw@ikki.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Jochen Wolters)
Subject: Re: MACS COST TOO MUCH (NOT!)
Organization: Rechnerbetrieb Informatik  /  RWTH Aachen
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:46:55 GMT

ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:

>>  Can you prove your point? Nope, you can't, since ease of use does
>>depend on personal preferences. 
Edward,


>Yes, I can.  All I need to do is sit down with a user and a stopwatch.

  This might in fact be true if that user has never used the machine
in question before. But as soon as you got used to whatever interface
you are using, it depends on what you got used to, right? If, for
example, a die-hard UNIX user would sit down at a Mac he'd have to
actually think about what he has to do to, say, copy a file. He
cannot use "instinctive" actions that would come naturally when using
a CLI.
  I do agree that a GUI may be superior over (word?) a CLI for a beginner.
But what do you do if s/he doesn't like the look and feel? He might never
find out about that ease of use and consistency of the interface, if
he doesn't want to use it due to simply feeling uncomfortable. 


>>  If you love your Mac and its Finder as much as I do -yep, I'm a Mac
>>addict as well!- that's fine. But you have to accept that there's
>>different strokes for different folks. 

>Which is why you guys are spending so much time trying to tell
>us that "MACS COST TOO MUCH," right?  

  Maybe you have a reading problem, but if you (try to) read that paragraph
again, you will find that I not only own and use a Mac, but I also "love" it
and wouldn't want to switch back to an MS-DOS machine at all. Maybe your
reaction only proves that you're not actually interested in discussing the
topic "GUI vs. CLI" after all, but prefer to happily flame away :-(


>>Just because we prefer a GUI
>>doesn't mean that CLIs are necessarily inferior in general. 

>No.  The fact that actual measurements show that CLIs are
>slower means that they are inferior.   

  The fact that my Bronco II is far slower than a BMW 750i
doesn't mean that it is inferior at all! Just try to drive
through a mud bog with that BMW 750i and you'll see that
speed isn't everything! Due to the 16bit data path, my
LC II may be slower than a 386. So, in
your opinion this would be reason enough to switch to
DOS???


>And let me add, once again, that the Macintosh does not have
>a GUI.  It simply has an interface.  Real computers do not
>need three-letter acronyms just to make simple things sound
>IMPORTANT.

  Every computer has an interface. The acronym GUI doesn't 
have anything to do with importace, it just points out that
we're dealing with a GRAPHICAL interface in contrast to a
simple TEXT driven one. That's all. Strange, though, that you
put so much energy in arguments that appear to be rather
uninteresting...


>Maybe for a *GUI* user, but not for a Macintosh user.  This
>can be handled by a simple drag-and-drop application. 

  ... by the name of? (I'm looking for such a utility myself).


>>Proof?! A real UNIX hacker wouldn't care for those studies
>>anyways; they would stick to their CLI and be happy with it!

>In other words, who needs facts when we've got (uninformed) opinions.

  No, in other words it would say: who gives a damn about the scientific
facts if s/he's happy (and productive!) with what s/he's got!


>Wrong.  Obviously, you've never used System 7.  You don't have to 
>remember the entire name to use Find.  It's enough to remember
>part of the name, or the file's (exact or approximate) creation date,
>or the modification date, or the file type.

  Let me put this straight: although it is quite interesting to discuss
the topic in question, your egocentric flaming will get us nowhere! I do
use System 7 and I do know that you can find a program by just entering
part of the filename. But I also do know that there are similar programs
with even more powerful options on other platforms. 


>Really?  You should try using the UNIX "find" command sometime.
>It's actually faster to type in a much of "ls" commands to find
>the file yourself.

  *sigh* Guess at what type of computer I'm sitting at the time. (Hint:
it says SPARC on the name tag) I know the command "find" and if you're
used to using it you simply remember the options you need and off you
go. *Flaming_Back* I'd love to see you dealing with a unix machine. :))))


>Secondly, it may not be a big deal to remember
>a few names, but what about all the options that go with
>those names?

  Good point. That may be a problem if you use a certain
program rarely. Concenring apps, you just create an ALIAS
with all the necessary options and that's it. 


>A "mouse" looks like a mouse.  It has a body, a "tail,"
>some even have ears.  A PC "shell," does not look or act
>like a shell.  Now if you could hold it up to your ear
>and hear the ocean, that would be different.

  Hmm, if I'd have the right sound file that should be
no problem at all :)


>Interesting.  Why is it that Europeans are always crying that
>"American should not interfere in the affairs of foreign nations"
>but never hesitate to tell America how it should run its government?

  Simple question, simple answer: because that s*cker Bush still
believes that the USofA are the police of the world and that it is
kind of fun to play cowboy and fool around with state-of-the-art
weapons. Remember Iraq? What a shame, all those casualties 
(hey, those were only(!!!) an estimated 1.5 million civilians :( and 
that devil Saddam is still sitting in his president's chair... 
Unfortunately, that was closer to us that it was to the US. So, 
the politics of the USA DO have influence of life in Europe. And
that's why I simply say what I think. That's all there is to it!
  

>I wonder how many indignant, self-righteous replies I'd get if 
>I tried to tell you to vote for in the Danish elections.

  What an interesting "slip-of-the-typing-fingers": I cannot vote
in the Danish elections, since Denmark doesn't belong to Germany.
And that's what DE stands for (DE = DEutschland).

  Jochen.


-- 
Jochen Wolters       |          jochenw@POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen.de  
--------------******* America, vote Clinton! *******------------------
"You've never seen a picture of 'a picture is worth a thousand words.'
It takes words to express that idea, or any idea."  ---  Michael Swain
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc