From: mclno@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeffery Capt. Shue)
Subject: Re: New Carrier Plan
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:43:55 GMT


From mclno@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeffery Capt. Shue)


In sci.military, randy@ms.uky.edu (Randy Appleton) writes:
>From randy@ms.uky.edu (Randy Appleton)
>
>gawne@stsci.edu writes:
>
>I wrote ...
>>> Further, the Marines have not gone ashore with
>>> AirForce help in my lifetime (or the lifetime of these planes).
>
>gawne@stsci.edu wrote ...
>>What !?!???  Have you heard of Graneda? Panama? Kuwait???  In all cases
>>there was an Air Force Air Component Commander who was issuing an Air
>>Tasking Order that included USMC assets.
>
>I thought that there were air force planes involved in Graneda.  If
>I'm wrong, I'm sorry.  As for Panama, we already had troups, (and air
>bases) there, didn't we?
>
>Now, about Kuwait.  I wrote that the marines always had air force
>help.  Now I'm *quite* sure that the air force flew tens of thousands
>of missions during that war, and that the navy flew thousands more.
>The marine-air-force was at best a small component of the total air
>power involved.
>
>My point is that whenever the marines need air support, there are
>always available air assets of the air force or naval carriers to
>provide it.  That the marine corps has it's own air force seems a
>needless duplication of function.  In this day and age, every dollar
>wasted is a dollar less spent on the important things.
>
>Let me turn the question around.  Given that something needs to be

There seem to be a couple of misconceptions in this posting that I
think need clarification.

1. In Desert Shield/Storm Marine fixed wing air assets made up at least
10% of the total U.S. fixed wing air assets (I don't recall the exact
numbers). These aircraft include AV-8Bs, F/A-18s, A-6s, and OV-10s.
This was not an insignificant contribution to the air war.
This doesn't include the large number of rotary wing aircraft.

2. Why does the Marine Corps have their own air assets? There are a
number of doctrinal reasons.
    a. Marine units are organized as Marine Air Ground Task Forces.
Each MAGTF has a Ground Combat Element (GCE), an Air Combat Element
(ACE) and a Combat Service Support Element (CSSE). As such they are
fully integrated combined arms teams. What the GCE may lack in the way
of artillery or armor support is made up for by the flexibility of the
ACE.
    b. Don't always use Desert Storm as a model. The U.S. was lucky
this time to have bases to deploy to. If a forced entry was required
then Marines would have had to go across the beach. The Air Force with
out bases in the area may not have been able to provide adequate support
during the assault phase. Navy carrier air would initially provide support
but once ashore the Marines could bring their own air ashore and free
up the carriers for other missions. The AV-8B allows the Marine Corps
to operate from Expeditionary Airfeilds with very little preparation.
    c. Every Marine Aviator has had some basic training as an infantry
officer. This gives Marine pilots a unique perspective and also focuses
Marine aviation toward Close Air Support and support of the grunt in
the field. Marine FACs are also assigned down to the company level which
gets him up where the action is.  The point of all this  is that the
Marine GCE and the Marine ACE work together to provide an integrated
team. A team who trusts one another and who talks the same language.
The importance of this trust and bonds in combat cannot be overstressed.
My personal opinion here-- I would rather have a Marine do CAS for me
rather than anyone else, regardless of aircraft type or fancy avionics.
This is simply because that Marine pilot and I have had similar experiences.

I,ll get off my soap box now. No flames intended, I just wanted to point
out the reason the Marine Corps has their own aircraft is because of
different operational requirements.

J.P. SHUE

All these opinions are my own.

Newsgroups: sci.military