HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: outdoor research
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:33:36 EST
Reply-To: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

On 4-12-92 Whitlock wrote:

RELast December I bought a new pair of gore-tex over mitts and a
REpair of supergaiters, both from O.R.
RE
RETheir products had (from what I had **read**) a good
REreputation for quality and durability. Boy was I disappointed!

Send a copy of this post to Outdoor Research. My guess is that
they'll be appalled at what your report (or at least appalled by
the exposure it's gotten). Maybe they'll make it up to you; maybe
even equip your walk in to Annapurna <grin>. Let us know here in
rec.backcountry how they reply. What do you think?



                                         eliot 
Internet: eliot.gelwan@channel1.com
    RIME: ->CHANNEL [R/O okay]
---
 EZ 1.37B #178  [in Brookline MA  9:26 am, Monday 04/13/92]
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: rob@rips.UUCP (Rob Savoye)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Land Navigation/Map & Compass/Routefinding
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:19:30 GMT
Organization: Raster Image Processing Systems, Inc.

WHITLOCK@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Reid E. Whitlock) writes:

>I am responsible for instructing the outdoor recreation staff at the 
>University of Virginia in survival, mountain medicine, extreme bivouac etc...
>etc... skills. 

  I used to do this too.

>I'm running a two day navigation training and would like some advice on 
>ideas others have used to make such training interesting. Day one (about 2 
>hours) is in a "classroom setting" indoors. The concepts of legend, symbols, 
>scale, types of maps, contour lines, etc.. will be discussed. The second 
>day (9 hours) will be in the field. Pace count, terrain association, 
>reference points, ridge walking, etc.. will be covered.
>In this context, what do you think would work well for a group of people who 
>are "outdoorsy" and have some backpacking experience under their belts, but 
>have tended to use guide books or nothing at all rather than real maps and 
>compasses?

  I would always start with a session in a lagre gym and do a few exercises. I
would have everyone mark a spot and then I'd have everybody move something like
"20 steps at 34.5 degrees". After a while everybody would wind up back where we
started. Not real exciting but it shows that the techniques work and let them
get used to a compass. Then we'd get into a "orienteering without a compass" 
session (usually outside) and go into how to relate map symbols to real terrain.
(gulley, hills, power lines, etc...) Then we'd get into basic direction finding
techniques. (follow streams, ridge lines, pick three trees in a line, etc...)
Finally we'd do a simple group orienteering trip. Then we'd have a orienteering
race in the local state park. We cheated slightly and made most of the markers
to identify also near a major formation so people wouldn't get too lost. (on
power line, count bolts on manhole cover, etc...) Most of the people in my class
were Outdoor Rec Majors and although I can't say this was extremely exciting, 
nobody said it was boring either. Also a few outoorsy friends would stop by and
drop horror stories on how a map and compass saved their live (informally) which
helped stress the importance. Also it would dispel the notion that "real outdoor
folks never need a map cause they never get lost".

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Rob Savoye                                             rips!rob@solbourne.com
RIPS (Raster Image Processing Systems)           uunet!solbourne.com!rips!rob
4665 Nautilus Court South                    << KERNAL: Panic, core dumped >>
Boulder, CO 80301                         Darkstar crashes, pouring its light 
(303) 530-2910                              into ashes, reason tatters, ...
From: ford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Harry Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Abandoned places
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:45:19 GMT
Reply-To: ford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Harry Ford)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


    The April issue of "POTOMAC APPALACHIAN" from Potomac Appalachian
Trail Club gives a good example of what can happen if we ignore the
advice given in the last post. One of the most challenging hikes (at
least until the trail was relocated!) in Shenandoah National Park was
Big Devils Stairs. Now the land owner at the lower trail head has closed
access to the trail and it's "going to be difficult to reroute the trail
elsewhere from [Va] 622."

"Take only pictures...leave only footprints"

harry
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: u538256@csi.uottawa.ca (Christian Chenier)
Subject: Weather in the Adirondaks
Keywords: adirondaks
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 17:00:17 GMT

	Could anyone out there tell me what the weather is like in  
the Adirondaks (around Marcy Dam).  I'm planning a trip there for  
next weekend (from Thursday to Monday).  I've been there before, but  
only earlier in the season.  I know there will be lots of snow high  
in altitude, but how is it lower?  I guess that snowshoes will be  
essential.  What kind of temperature can I expect?  
	Please Email to me, as I will only get a couple of minutes on  
Thursday morning to read the replies.

	Thanks for your help,
				Christian Chenier
				u538256@csi.UOttawa.CA

-- NewsGrazer, a NeXTstep(tm) news reader, posting --
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K=&EA;B!#:&5N:65R7`H)"0D)=34S.#(U-D!C<VDN54]T=&%W82Y#00I]"FES
`
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: karl@thuja.gsfc.nasa.gov (Karl A. Anderson)
Subject: Re: Origins of "slickrock" (was: (random thoughts on) naturally fractal)
Reply-To: karl@thuja.gsfc.nasa.gov (Karl A. Anderson)
Organization: NASA/GSFC code 923
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 20:18:39 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.182653.12775@gmuvax2.gmu.edu>,
rauletta@sitevax.gmu.edu (R. J. Auletta) writes:

|>   Rocks which are Alkaline tend to be slick when wet. You can prove
|>   this to yourself with a little baking soda and water. The water
|>   will feel "slippery" between your fingers. Alkaline solutions have
|>   this characteristic.

Alkaline solutions feel slippery between your fingers because they
saponify (make soap out of) the fats in your skin - think of the way
soap is made, by boiling animal fat with lye.  Unless you hike barefoot
8^), wet rocks won't be slippery just because they are alkaline.

--
Karl A. Anderson		| Internet: karl@thuja.gsfc.nasa.gov
NASA/GSFC code 920.2 (STX)	| voice: (301) 286-3815
Greenbelt, MD 20771		| #include "std_disclaimer"
From: karen@athena.cs.uga.edu (Karen Snetselaar)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Rails to Trails
Date: 12 Apr 92 14:56:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Apr12.145600.19945
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Apr10.143358.20807@b11.ingr.com> mit@b11.ingr.com (Timothy A. Turner) writes:
>
>You know, that's just the thing. These trails make great parks that pull
>communities together. I have just been on one rtt, east of dc, but the
>pride was evident in each community. Not only that, but if the area desired,
>businesses thrived around it. There was the quaint little smalltown diner
>at the west end of the trail and the bustling town center in Reston. In-
>between were miles of peaceful scenery.

Another example of a trail that seems to be popular with locals is (or was
anyway) the Elroy-Sparta trail in SW Wisconsin.  Anybody been on it recently?
I rode this trail a few years ago and had a great time.  Friendly chamber of
commerce man let us leave our van in a locked-up city lot for the weekend.
Met nice folks in the bars and diners.  And the trail itself was lovely,
especially the long tunnels.  We rode the trail the uphill way (nice steady
grade all day) and then took county roads going back, got this wonderful
long "free" downhill stretch.

Karen
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Outdoor gear - Mud
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:11:03 GMT


What about snow-shoes so that you stay on the surface of the mud?

--Chris
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: cole@maverick ( Cole Keirsey)
Subject: Re: Backpacking Entertainment
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:37:10 GMT

Here's a simple word game that is good for a group of campers.  One
player offers a clue.  Whoever guesses the answer gets to offer the
next clue, or pass leaving the opportunity open to anyone.

A clue must consist of a two-word phrase.  The answer must be another
two-word phrase in which each word is synonymous with the corresponding
word in the clue.  The two words in the answer must rhyme. For example:

Clue:  distant sun
Answer:  far star

It sounds a bit silly and simple, but folks can really get into it.  We
kept a game going for almost two days last summer when the group I was
kayaking with was trapped in camp by a storm.  Has anyone else played
this one?  I was introduced to it years ago by a high school friend.
(If you're on the net, Lisa, write me.)

cck

-- 
______________________________________________________________________
C. C. Keirsey                 | "Verbosity leads to unclear,  
US WEST Advanced Technologies |  inarticulate things." 
Boulder, Colorado             |                       -- Dan Quayle
From: jtan@cc.weber.edu (THE TAN MAN)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Lake Tahoe/Reno
Date: 7 Apr 92 03:03:00 GMT
Reply-To: JTAN@cc.weber.edu
Organization: Weber State University CS Department
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Anybody know of any pristine/rugged regions
around Lake Tahoe/Reno/Incline Village?

Lake Tahoe sounds like it's been pretty
commercialized, but there's got to be
something left ...

Thanks in advance!

The Tan Man
JTAN@cc.weber.edu
From: aknoll@hprpcd.rose.hp.com (Al Knoll)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Outdoor gear - Mud
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:47:36 GMT
Organization: HP Roseville Site

Try Waders, works for us fish molesters.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Subject: Re: Abandoned places
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA  90041
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:55:12 GMT

In article <334@sousa.ltn.dec.com> goodnews@mrktng.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes:
 
>And speaking of railroads - the abandoned railroad beds are great for long
>flat hikes and easy walks.  Also good for easy mountain biking (and not damaging
>hiking trails).  Occasionally you can find an old relic like a glass insulator 
>or an old spike.

     I can't resist putting in a plug for a non-profit organization called
the Rails-to-Trails Confederacy (I think that's the name, although 
it sounds like some Civil War group).  They encourage governments to
buy up old railroad rights of way for use as walking paths, or biking
or horse trails.
     This turns out to be harder than it sounds, and not just because gov'ts.
are short of cash.  One of the biggest problems is the adjoining landowners,
who sometimes think that the rights of way should revert to them, and who
have fought (often to the Supreme Court) against turning these railroads
into trails.

--Mike Tamada
  Occidental College
  tamada@oxy.edu
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Info requested on White Mtn, Southern CA
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:46:02 GMT
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies

In article <1992Apr7.154716.6569@macc.wisc.edu>, pburke@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Peter Burke, MIC, 608-263-7744) writes:

> Not much 
> traffic up there, but definitely a great peak - the view to the Sierra 
> and into Nevada are super.

Would you believe 100+ cyclists when I hiked it?  I think that was a
one-time club outing, though.  They had started from some town that 
was at 2500 ft. elevation, which has to be a loooooong way away.

-- 

John Reece			
Intel spokesman?  Not!
From: jkwatson@amherst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: tent (?) question
Date: 31 Mar 92 22:32:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: amherst.1992Mar31.183258.1
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA.

A friend and I are planning to hike a good portion of the AT this summer.  I've
been given a copy (1974 edition) of _The New Complete Walker_.  Fletcher
suggests quite forcefully that if one is going to be backpacking in the summer,
not to use a tent.  I was wondering what people thought about this suggestion,
as I'm not the most experienced of backpackers.  He says that you'll do a lot
better with just a rainfly over your sleeping bag, in almost all situations.
Any comments?  A reply to my email address or posted would be appreciated.
Thanks!
-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
John Watson			|  "Just because I don't know what I'm talking
jkwatson@amherst.edu		|   about doesn't mean that I'm lying!"
jkwatson@ksuvxd.kent.edu	|  "Where your eyes don't go, a part of you is
________________________________|   hovering.  It's a part of you you'll never
Beverly Hills, 90210, dude.	|   be discovering."
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: goodnews@mrktng.enet.dec.com (My name is...)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Abandoned places
Date: 7 Apr 92 12:12:07 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <MARY.92Apr6090624@martinique.Cayman.COM>, mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes...
> 
>In Vischer's Ferry, New York (north of Albany), there is an old abandoned
>section of the Erie Canal.  ...

Ah, canals.  They're great for exploring.  Here in Mass you can find occasional
remains from the old Middlesex Canal that ran from Boston to Lowell.  It was
built around 1801, and went out of business around 1840 when a railroad was
built near the same route.  

And speaking of railroads - the abandoned railroad beds are great for long
flat hikes and easy walks.  Also good for easy mountain biking (and not damaging
hiking trails).  Occasionally you can find an old relic like a glass insulator 
or an old spike.

Vin
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Subject: Re: Backpacking Entertainment
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 19:51:16 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Bytes: 

And how bout a summary please ? :)
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: tent (?) question
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:48:37 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Mar31.183258.1@amherst.edu> jkwatson@amherst.edu writes:
>A friend and I are planning to hike a good portion of the AT this summer.  I've
>been given a copy (1974 edition) of _The New Complete Walker_.  Fletcher
>suggests quite forcefully that if one is going to be backpacking in the summer,
>not to use a tent.  I was wondering what people thought about this suggestion,
>as I'm not the most experienced of backpackers.  He says that you'll do a lot
>better with just a rainfly over your sleeping bag, in almost all situations.
>Any comments?  A reply to my email address or posted would be appreciated.

Well, if you visit Alaska in July with just a rainfly, you'll likely
have to do like the carabou: jump in a pond to get relief from the mosquitos.

In Coloarado during summer, on the other hand, a rain fly is a good way to go. 

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mpb@troy.uucp (27331-bunz)
Subject: Re: tent (?) question
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 13:28:47 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.160455.8545@advtech.uswest.com>, deg@rustin ( Don Gillespie) writes:
> 
> > Anyway, in 74 most tents were canvas, and heavy.  Today's tents are made
> > from nylon and ripstop plastic and don't weigh much.  Now, most of the
> > weight is in the poles, so I'm considering going to the low tech end
> 
> Please, I'm not that old yet!  In the '70s, rip-stop nylon tents were
> the norm for backpacking.  Maybe GoreTex was not around, but just about
> everything for backpacking was made from nylon :)
OK, several people have responded that nylon was popular in the 70's,
my comment was based on going to Philmont in '71, and the tents that
we used were canvas, and were heavy.  From what I recall in looking
at the BSA catalogs back then, the majority of the tents were canvas,
I cann't recall any nylon, of course no one has ever accused the BSA
of being a trend setter.  I will admit that I have a fly that dates back
to '73 that is ripstop plastic, so I'm sure that other non-canvas
materials were used, and I was just not aware of them.
After going to Philmont, my backpacking days were over,
and I was out of touch with backpacking and
camping until '88, the BSA still has the old standby canvas wall tents,
but there are also a few Eureka! tents as well.

Marc
From: kemasa@ipld01.hac.com (Kemasa)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Invite to a Backpack
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:06:47 GMT
Distribution: la
Organization: Natural Order Nature Experiments (N.O.N.E.)

Just an update to the article below. I just when out to Joshua Tree
and have decided that the backpack to Eagle Cliff would be too
difficult, so I have decided to make it an all day hike with
a short backpack on Sat. night, staying in a campsite or just
go home afterwards.

I don't know if that would change the interest level or not. I intend
to visit Ivanpah Tank, Live Oak Tank, Elton Mine, possibly Desert
Queen Mine and Twin Tanks. It will be a relaxed hike with a
chance to look around and see what there is to see. You might be
able to see Eagle Cliff.

In article <21131@hacgate.UUCP> kemasa@ipld01.hac.com (Kemasa) writes:
->I am doing a Sierra Club backpack and I thought I would invite
->rec.backcountry readers (and others) to come along. This is an I-rated
->event, which means navigational skills are needed (by the leaders).
->While I am a Sierra Club leader, I am a provisional I-rated leader. On
->this event I will be rated to see how I do. This also means that we
->will not always take the direct route.
->
->This event is not going to be a death march, but the terrain is not all
->that level and there is no trail.
->
->MAY 2-3		SAT-SUN	
->I: A BACKPACK TO EAGLE CLIFF MINE, The hard way. Join us as we head out
->for Eagle Cliff Mine in Joshua Tree National Monument. We will backpack
->to Eagle Cliff Mine the hard way and spend the night in a beautiful
->area with room for a view amoung rocky peaks, massive boulder piles and
->vegetation.  This route involves more route finding and is a longer and
->more rugged route than other ways (This is a cross-country event after
->all).  No beginners, No tigers, No mice or other furry rodents. Please
->send 2 SASE, $10 check (refundable at trailhead; unclaimed checks will
->go to JTNM desert conservation) and backpacking/cross-country
->experience to the leader. High temperatures may cause a week delay or
->cancellation (the leaders tend to melt). The trip will be approximately
->8 miles & 1000' gain.
->
->For more information and/or address to mail the SASE (large self addressed
->stamped envelope) send e-mail to kemasa@ipld01.hac.com
->
->Sorry, no guns or dogs allowed.
-- 



						 Kemasa.

The best defense is insanity.

Sierra Club Leader	NRA Life Member		Pro-freedom

e-mail address: kemasa@ipld01.hac.com
From: deg@rustin ( Don Gillespie)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: tent (?) question
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:04:55 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies


> Anyway, in 74 most tents were canvas, and heavy.  Today's tents are made
> from nylon and ripstop plastic and don't weigh much.  Now, most of the
> weight is in the poles, so I'm considering going to the low tech end

Please, I'm not that old yet!  In the '70s, rip-stop nylon tents were
the norm for backpacking.  Maybe GoreTex was not around, but just about
everything for backpacking was made from nylon :)
From: rbw00@ccc.amdahl.com (  324  Richard Wilmot)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Outdoor gear - Mud
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:06:16 GMT
Reply-To: rbw00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (  324  Richard Wilmot)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <9204061903.AA16654@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin) writes:
>hightech-fabric raingear, etc. There is one outdoor condition, though,
>for which I am unaware of any available specialized footwear or
>clothing: deep mud. I'm talking suck-your-boots-off seas of mud,
>WWI-trench-warfare mud, Russian-spring-on-the-Eastern-Front mud --
>mud which sucks down vehicles and horses, mud which seems to reach
>down to the depths of the earth with no discernable bottom to it...

I suggest you just stay clear of western Oregon and Washington. We,
who grew up there did not wear nor need boots. We went barefoot as
the naturally growing webs between our toes helped to buoy us up and
propel us forward through the eternal DRIZZZZZZLE.

>
>Regards, Will
>wmartin@st-louis-emh2.army.mil OR wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil


-- 
  Dick Wilmot  | I declaim that Amdahl might disclaim any of my claims.
                 (408) 746-6108
From: awesley@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Tony Wesley)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: North Country Trail
Date: 11 Apr 92 15:53:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: vela.14657
Organization: National Federation of Associations

curt@med.umich.edu (Curt Hamilton) writes:

>This summer I plan to spend some time (6-8 weeks) on the North Country Trail
>in Michigan's Lower Peninsula. I am very excited, 

Lucky you!  I'd be excited too.

>but could get even more
>excited if I heard from some fellow backpackers about their experiances on the
>NCT. I'm interested in not only Michigan, but the whole trail, 

I've been on bits and pieces of it, mostly in the upper peninsula.  I've
been on the Jordan River Pathway, which is now a section of the NCT, I believe.

The Jordan stretch is fairly heavily used.  That pathway is about a 15
mile loop that is popular for overnight trips.  There is supposedly
no camping in that stretch except at a state forest campground, but we
stopped along the trail due to a rain storm.   There is a lot of elevation
changes in that area (for Michigan -- Colorado residents might chuckle).

The Jordan river valley is quite scenic, with the river going underground
on occasion.  

Up in the UP, the NCT near Tahquamenon is my idea of heaven.  The falls
themselves are impressive.  The Upper Falls is about 200 wide and a 50
foot drop.  The lower falls is a more a series of rapids.  You can rent 
a boat for a couple bucks that you can row to an island at the end of the
lower falls.  

Some older maps show a trail along the river from the upper to the
lower falls.  Don't try it, it's not there anymore.  Lots and lots and
lots of big downed trees -- I couldn't make the 4 miles between the
falls in a full day of travel.  It seems like I climbed the 50 feet
out of the river valley to the ridge and back down to the river level
a hundred times that day.

The falls are tourist attractions.  But if you go a mile away, you will
leave 99.99% of the people behind.
-- 
 Tony Wesley					 awesley@vela.acs.oakland.edu

   The right most valued by all civilized men is the right to be left alone.
							-- Louis Brandeis
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry