HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gpkatch@alcor.concordia.ca (Gary Katch)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Youngest GM/IGM?
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:38:33 GMT
Organization: Concordia University
  Computing Services C-1012
  1455 De Maisonneuve West
  Montreal (Quebec) H3G 1M8
X-Tel: (514) 848-7632
  Fax: (514) 848-7622
Originator: gpkatch@alcor.concordia.ca

Last night, my trivia team and I [*] were poised to win, and the
critical question was about chess.  A collective team sigh was
released, since yours truly is considered (by them) to be very
knowledgable on this subject.  Anyway, the question was:  "In
1970 he became the youngest person to attain the title of
International Grandmaster."  Multiple choice answers were Karpov,
Fischer, Kasparov, Spassky and one other.

Now I know that Fischer was the youngest GM.  This was recently
discussed in this very newsgroup when we were all wondering
if Judit Polgar would break that record.  So, brimming with
confidence, I confidently chose Fischer.

Well, I blew it, obviously.  If I had stopped to think for a
moment, it would have been obvious that Fischer would not have
become a GM (or IGM) in 1970, only two years before winning the
world championship.

Anyway, if one didn't make the date comparison, one would have to
choose an answer based on the fine difference of the GM/IGM
title.  A tricky question for a chessplayer and IMHO very
difficult for the average person, n'est-ce pas?  Does anyone have
the facts at hand?

-- gk

*Playing NTN Showdown trivia, which is an interactive game played
live coast-to-coast, in better sports-bars everywhere :-)
From: hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven  hauptfeld)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Solvability Garbage
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:16:05 GMT
Reply-To: hau4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <12635@sail.LABS.TEK.COM> tcmaint@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (-Broadband Network Maintenance) writes:
>
>
>Ok, the last word on chess solvabilty.
>
>	1. IF chess is solvable it would have been solved.
>	2. Chess has not been solved.
>	3. Therefore to date chess is not solvable.
>
>Only the solution will prove this wrong, so if you don't agree please post
>the solution to chess for all to read. ;-)

Same logical pattern (albeit without the same bad grammar):

	1. If I were mortal, I would be dead.
	2. I am not dead.
	3. Therefore to date I am not mortal.

There are two mistakes. One is logical, but not too relevant: a new condition
("to date"), not in the premises, appears in the conclusion. The other is
logically fine, but factually wrong: the premise 1. is false.

	Sven
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: hansb@cs.ruu.nl (Hans Bodlaender)
Subject: Re: mirror, mirror on the board...
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:23:35 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science

There is this wonderful old story where player 1 forces player 2 to play
chess, and player 1 does not listen to the objections of player 2.
Player 2 now mimmicks all the moves of player 1 (mirrorwise, e.g. after b4
comes g5), and wins the first two games.
However, in game three, player 1 plays Qd1-d8, which is then replied by
Ke8-e1. Player 1 objects, and then player 2 says: but I cannot play chess at
all. 
Does anybody know full details of this story. (I heard it about 20 years ago,
and was told the story was very old.)
                                       Hans Bodlaender
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: bedwards@nextear.psych.umn.edu (Brent Edwards)
Subject: portable electronic chess
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:47:53 GMT

Anyone know anything about electronic chess sets? The local game store  
here carries nothing but various sized sets of a brand called "Kasparov."

Brent Edwards, bedwards@nextear.psych.umn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Progressive chess (mate in 5?!)
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Date: 26 Sep 92 12:42:35 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <THO.92Sep26171744@hemuli.tik.vtt.fi>
tho@tik.vtt.fi (Timo Honkela) writes:
>1. d3
>2. Nf6 d5
>3. f3 Bg5 Kd2
>4. h6 hxg5 Rxh2 Rxh1
>5. Mate in five (or less) moves?? (It's possible!)

c4 Nc3 Nb5 Qa4 Nd6#, with many minor alternatives (e.g. Nxc7#).
What's the idea behind White's f3?

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: sharring@cs.tamu.edu (Steven L Harrington)
Subject: games [tal and other] via ftp
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:28:23 GMT


There was some talk a while back about Tal games available
via ftp. Could someone _please_ direct me to them. Also,
any other sources for ascii games would be greatly appreciated.


-thanks, Steve Harrington
	 Texas A&M University
From: kvdoel@cs.ubc.ca (Kees van den Doel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: ( was Re: Please stop )
Date: 1 Oct 1992 09:14:12 -0700
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: cascade.cs.ubc.ca


Stop telling people responding to people who are telling people who
are posting about solvability to stop to stop!

--Kees

From: jqtaylor@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (John Quill Taylor)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:09:00 GMT
Subject: What to Buy ?
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess


I'd like to buy a portable chess computer. What is the difference between
pressure-sensitive and auto-sensory (besides a few hundred dollars!)? Which
is the best one to buy? Mephisto/Fidelity, Novag, Saitek, ??? Please post
or write to me if you have any good / bad experience with any of these. Also,
is there a better place to buy than ICD? They seemed very nice on the phone.
I am inclined to get the Novag Diablo with auto-sense and wood pieces.

                         jqtaylor@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: arc5@chempc1.york.ac.uk (Alastair Cargill)
Subject: Re: ChessBase vs. NICBase
Organization: University of York, UK
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:02:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.011252.23633@nuscc.nus.sg> ccecks@nuscc.nus.sg (Chua Kong Sian (Mr)) writes:
>From: ccecks@nuscc.nus.sg (Chua Kong Sian (Mr))
>Subject: Re: ChessBase vs. NICBase
>Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 01:12:52 GMT
>Just a query.  Does ChessBase 4.0 includes KnightStalker?  Or do they
>have to be purchased separately?  In browsing through certain chess
>magazines, I noticed the word Fritz in relation to ChessBase 4.0.  Is
>that another chess program? 
Hi
As I understand it Fritz is a chess playing program the engine of which can 
be used within Chessbase so that at a particular time you can get an 
analysis of a game you are looking at in the database. As regards which 
database to use, I have Nicbase 3.0 and have spent a couple of hours using 
ChessBase 4.0 and I feel that Nicbase is a lot easier to use but that 
ChessBase is more powerful in its search facilities. In the UK when I bought 
Nicbase it was a lot cheaper but the price difference has lessened, and 
having seen both I would probably buy Nicbase still. As regards being able 
to analyse games from the database- although not in the same way I can print 
a game from Nicbase to an ascii file and then read it into Zarkov (if you 
are using an IBMPC compatible with Windows you can have two DOS windows open 
so that you dont have to quit Nicbase to play with Zarkov) in which you can 
have the whole game analysed with the analysis logged for later reading 
which I think is a very useful way to use it - I dont think this could be 
done with Fritz??

Al
From: Elliott.C.Winslow@mailbox.bison.mb.ca (Elliott C Winslow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Kasparov speaks (Was: Re: Fischer-Spassky game 11 analysis)
Date: 25 Sep 92 06:02:08 GMT

Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

There was a knockout match in NYC, the winner of which, Joel Benjamin (over
*Zamora* in the finals, when there were two Polgars, Dzindzi, etc!), played
a single game (all games were 5-minute) against Kasparov.  I wasn't there,
but I hear that Kasparov, as expected, slammed the Fischer-Spassky match.

He said 7.b4 wasn't such a big deal, that Spassky played poorly --
10...exd4? noted especially, when 10...d6 and ...f6 would be thematic.
Also, 12...Qb6 instead of 12...Qd7 (more ??s).  I wish I wasn't so wiped
out, or I would have wanted to see this!

Meanwhile, note (now that you *can* get Informant 54!), that Game 162 is
Kasparov-Salov, Sortmund 1992, which went 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 g6 4.Bxc6
bxc6 5.O-O Bg7 6.Re1 Nf6 (which Kasparov gives a "N", which means Novelty,
as in Theoretical Novelty, as in TN).

So was Kasparov about to play (on 6...e5) 7.b4!?  I wish I could have been
there to ask him! :-)

Oh, I have to give the little bit about TN, I don't think I've mentioned it
in r.g.c.

	"TN"  -- theoretical novelty  (new move, good)
	"TL"  -- theoretical lemon    (new move, bad)
	"TLY" -- theoretical Lyman    (new move, good, illegal position)

Those of you who have seen Shelby in action know what I'm talking about.

:-)

--Elliott

 * Origin: The Electronic Mailbox (1:348/7.0)
From: LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Standardized Notations for Siamese + Xiangqi
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:26:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Sep30.192639.7795
Organization: Vanderbilt University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.21

In <BvEEzw.9yJ@news.orst.edu> linb@ucs.orst.edu writes:

> >Actually, coordinates are not used in xiangqi notation. A move is generally
> >indicated by: piece letter, file of departure, +/-/=, and file of arrival.
> >In numbering the files, 1 is at the far right of the player whose piece is
> >moving.  Since a piece moving vertically can move to many squares on its own
> >file, its notation is letter, file, +/-, and distance moved.
> >Examples (from the opening position):
> >left elephant to center          E7+5
> >right elephant to center         E3+5
> >right cannon to central file     C2=5
> >right cannon forward as far 
> >     as possible                 C2+4
> >center soldier forward           S5+1
> 
> >center soldier left              S5=6
> 
> This is an illegal move right? just checking...

Sorry, you're right in the Chinese game.  But in the Korean version, soldiers
*can* move sideways from the start, so it could occur.  (BTW, if anyone wants
Korean rules, e-mail me.)

Andy Lipscomb
lipscoja@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
From: Peter_Stockhausen@mindlink.bc.ca (Peter Stockhausen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: F-S II - Important reminder!y
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:32:04 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Bruce Harper writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <15883@mindlink.bc.ca>
> Posted: 1 Oct 92 13:49:25 GMT
>
> Org.  : MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
>
> During the first half of the match, it was generally agreed to use the
> following three categories for postings:
>
> F-S II Game # (moves)
> F-S II Game # (analysis)
> F-S II Game # (gossip)
>
> The first category should be reserved for David Fry and others who do us
> all
> the great service of actually posting the moves to each game.  This lets
> people skip such postings when they already have the moves once (there's
> nothing wrong with having the moves posted several times, but no one wants
> to
> read them several times).
>
> The second category is for analysis of games which have already been
> posted.
> Several people posted opening analysis of Game 12 under the heading
> "moves".
>
> The third category is for press conferences, non-chess aspects of the match
> and (unfortunately) for those who wish to go on and on about Fischer's
> personality.  But at least the reader knows what he might be in for when he
> reads category three.
>
> To reinforce the point, I would ask people to post their agreement or
> disagreement with this system for handling the material relating to the
> match
> (or any other events which take place in the future).  I know David Fry
> uses
> it and I am most grateful.

I fully agree with the above comments.
Peter

--

----------------------------------------------------------------
   Peter_Stockhausen@mindlink.bc.ca         Vancouver, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bruce_Leverett@transarc.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: French Defense Classical, Tartakower (?)
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:01:33 GMT

9 ... c5 equalizes.  When you said that it doesn't, did you have some
particular line in mind?  I am thinking of something like 10 dxc5 (White
just loses the d-pawn after 10 c3 cxd4 11 cxd4 Nc6, followed by 12 ... Qb4+
if necessary, and this is a lot less double-edged than losing the b-pawn)
10 ... Nd7 11 Qh5 (or 11 Qe2, but not 11 f4 Qxc5) 11 ... Nxc5 with typical
Classical French play.

I can't figure out whether 9 ... Qb4+ and 10 ... Qxb2 is OK.  It's just too
complicated.  Courage is a useful thing in chess, and if think you can get
away with this pawn snatch, you should do it.  I don't like your 11 ... Qxc3.
Black should try to complete his development with ... b6, ... Bb7, and
... Nc6 or ... Nd7.  He will also need to return his Queen to the game by
... Qa3 and ... Qe7.  Whether there's time for all this, I don't know.
From: mrosen@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Michael David Rosen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Inflation in ELO's system
Date: 29 Sep 1992 07:09:27 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

This is certainly no attempt to make a case using mathmatics, but for those who
don't think there is inflation (??deflation??) in the ELO ratings should take a
look at the ratings of top players since the rating system came into use.

How many 2700 players were there in the 1950's, '60's, '70's, etc.  I believe 
that Fischer was the first player to reach a rating of 2700. 

Now, I'm willing to believe that Fischer might have been the strongest player
in the history of modern chess but for him to reach that rating in his 
relatively brief career is "suspicious". 

I think it's pretty obvious that there has been an inflationary effect in the
ELO ratings.
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: F-S II game 15 drawn - moves
From: fry@tara.harvard.edu (David Fry)
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:04:37 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard Math Department


   Fischer Spassky
   (White) (Black)
   1. c4 e6
   2. Nf3 Nf6
   3. g3 d5
   4. Bg2 Be7
   5. 0-0 O-O
   6. d4 Nbd7
   7. Nbd2 b6
   8. cxd5 exd5
   9. Ne5 Bb7
   10. Ndf3 Ne4
   11. Bf4 Ndf6
   12. Rc1 c5
   13. dxc5 bxc5
   14. Ng5 Nxg5
   15. Bxg5 Ne4
   16. Bxe7 Qxe7
   17. Bxe4 dxe4
   18. Nc4 e3
   19. f3 Rad8
   20. Qb3 Rfe8
   21. Rc3 Bd5
   22. Rfc1 g6
   23. Qa3 Bxf3
   24. exf3 e2
   25. Re1 Rd1
   26. Kf2 Rxe1
   27. Kxe1 Qd7
   28. Qb3 Qh3
   29. Ne3 Qxh2
   30. g4 Rb8
   31. Qd5 Kg7
   32. Nf5+ gxf5
   draw agreed to
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: mem@world.std.com (Jeff Lesser)
Subject: Re: Looking for Suggestions
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:45:17 GMT

twg9323@tamsun.tamu.edu (Todd Gruben) writes:


>As part of my senior design project, our group has decided to write
>an graphical chess database program that will possibly run under
>mac, windows, and X.  We are looking for functions that you would consider 
>a must for such a program.  We are also considering any sort of bells
>and whistles that might tickle your fancy. 

>Thanks for any response

>Todd Gruben
>Unix Help Desk
>Texas A&M University
>gruben@batman.tamu.edu

What do you mean by a chess database?  Are you referring to something that
can store many positions?  Moves?  Annotations?  Search based on opening? 
Color?  Result?  Game length?  Positional characteristics?
 
I recommend taking a detailed look at the following 3 commercial programs,
all of which are available for the PC (and 1 of which is on other
platforms, such as the Mac, as well):
 
ChessBase
NICBase
Bookup
From: jim@rand.org (Jim Gillogly)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Solvability Garbage
Date: 29 Sep 92 23:02:51 GMT
Organization: Banzai Institute

In article <1992Sep25.163427.21712@ninja.csuohio.edu> andy@ninja.csuohio.edu (andy) writes:
>If no one has already done this already, could someone list
>a book that demonstrates that chess is theoretically solvable
>so we can stop wasting time on this subject due to all the

Good idea!  Go to the source:

Zermelo, Ernst, U"ber eine Anwendung der Mengenlehre auf die Theorie des
Schachspiels, Proc. Fifth International Congress of Mathematicians,
(Cambridge, 1912), 501-504.

Enough already!

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	jim@rand.org
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: cpf@alchemy.TN.Cornell.EDU (Courtenay Footman)
Subject: Endgame Oddity
Organization: Alchemy International, Ithaca, N.Y.
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 03:46:00 GMT

Here is an amusing position that I reached at the 4th Annual
SAAWA Upstate Open Chess Tournament.  I was going to
submit it to "The Guinness Book of Chess Records" until
I was informed there was no such thing :-).
 
4th Annual ...
Board 5 Game 5
White Dave Dasher (1710) Black Courtenay Footman (1412*)
G/30
 
Final Position:
 
	8  - * - * - * - *
	7  * - * - * - * k
	6  - * - * - * - *
	5  * - * - r - * -   White: Kg2, Rd2, a2, b3, c4, g4, h3
	4  - * P p p p P *   Black: kh7, re5, d3, d4, e4, f4
	3  * P * p * - * P
	2  P * - R - * K *
	1  * - * - * - * -
	   a b c d e f g h
 
52: Time Forfeit
 
The oddity, of course, is the nine passed pawns.  This is the most that 
I have ever seen;  has anybody ever seen more in tournament (or 
correspondence) game? (Of course, it is trivial to compose games
with up to 16 passed pawns, but such positions are not likely to
arise in real games.)
 
It is interesting finding the win for black here, after 52 Kf1.  It exists,
but there are a several ways to go wrong. 
 
If anyone wants to see how this position arose, or if you can't figure out
the win, mail me.
 
* Old official rating;  new official rating is 1614;  including
four tournaments after the cut-off date, rating  will be over
1700.)

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Courtenay Footman			I finally got back on the net.

cpf@alchemy.ithaca.ny.us		Now I will never get anything done
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: hgk@cray.com (Hans-Georg Kleinhenz)
Subject: Re: king's gambit
Keywords: grandmaster
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:22:46 CDT

In article <BvMxwo.3LJ@world.std.com> ekw@world.std.com (Elliott C Winslow) writes:
>In article <9zbrb457@csv.warwick.ac.uk
>strgh@warwick.ac.uk (J E H Shaw) writes:
>>A few grandmasters do play it, notably Joe Gallagher whose book on the KG
>>is out soon.
>Not to be overly critical of what might just be a typo, but Joe Gallagher is
>something like 2150 last time I looked, which was a few days ago.
>
>Another case of Winslow possibly completely screwing up the data, but that
>is what I remember.  Perhaps the author is thinking of the Gallagher from 
> Europe?

Yes, GM Joe Gallagher from England (Europe) now living in Switzerland, 
whose last Elo is 2510 is really writing a book on the KG. He plays the KG 
against opponents of all strengths and for example beat GM van der Sterren 
(Elo 2530) with it in San Bernardino (Switzerland) two weeks ago.

He finished 5th in the Brocco Open San Bernardino (10 GMs starting).
1.-3. Hodgson, Hort, Spraggett     7.0 
4.-8. Epishin (2630), Gallagher, Chernin (2600), van der Sterren, Boehm  6.5
(other GMs: 9. Csom 6.0, ... 13. Hickl  5.5, ... 22. Petursson  5.0)
9 rounds, 72 players

Hans-Georg


Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: norm@sdc.com (Norm Nithman)
Subject: BBS CHESS
Organization: Systems Development Corporation
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 21:46:24 GMT

If you have access to a modem and a ANSI compatable terminal, you are
invited to call the Free! Board at 312-275-0848.  We have just started
a new chess door that allows you to play postal-style chess via computer.

We also have a wide variety of IBM-PC programs and text files.  We have
no upload/download ratios and are up 24 hours a day.

Norm
From: clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: The Last Word on Chess Solvability
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:13:20 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Sep26.132016.24741@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, Edward Hummel writes:

> I agree with this assessment, with the "minor" correction than there
> can be a large (but finite) number of different outcomes for the
> infinite game set.  I don't think it can be shown, in general, that
> all infinte loops have the same value.

I don't think I understand.  You are right, it can't be "proven" that
all infinite loops have the same value, no more than it can be proven
that chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla, or that one stalemate
is better than another.  The point behind chess is that certain outcomes
from the point of view of White are better than others, e.g. White would
rather mate Black than be mated by Black.  If White isn't sure what
outcomes they prefer, they are a silly person and we can't say what
the best result for them under optimal play would be, because an
answer doesn't exist!

> Note the implication of the assumption: (W>w>i>b>B).  Since different
> orderings can be chosen (and in fact, this becomes a very large set
> when i -> i_n) the solution can be found but is a function of a large
> number of undertermined parameters.

Could you give me an example?  In the worst case, with a very picky
White, there is only a finite number of terminal positions (position
mate, position stalemate, position part of a cycle), so we could have
White assign a unique value to each and total order.
-- 
Chris Long, 265 Old York Rd., Bridgewater, NJ  08807-2618
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: ekw@world.std.com (Elliott C Winslow)
Subject: Re: king's gambit
Summary: Joe Gallagher isn't even a master!
Keywords: grandmaster
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 06:26:47 GMT

In article <9zbrb457@csv.warwick.ac.uk
strgh@warwick.ac.uk (J E H Shaw) writes:
>A few grandmasters do play it, notably Joe Gallagher whose book on the KG
>is out soon.
Not to be overly critical of what might just be a typo, but Joe Gallagher is
something like 2150 last time I looked, which was a few days ago.

Another case of Winslow possibly completely screwing up the data, but that
is what I remember.  Perhaps the author is thinking of the Gallagher from 
Europe?

--Elliott
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Subject: Re: mirror, mirror on the board...
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 20:29:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.133831.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> jpxu1@fnalo.fnal.gov writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.134016.1649@ll.mit.edu>, nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:
>> 
>> there is an old story from Go as told by O.Korschelt.  Long ago the best
>> Go players were in china.  there was an arrangement of political cosmetics
>> whereby the Crown Prince of Japan was invited to play against the reigning
>> chimese champion.  the story goes that for years the chinese champion won.
>> then one year the Japanese prince of the time hit upon the idea of playing
>> his first Black stone in the exact center (K10) and then symmetrically made
>> mirror moves of white's, reflected through that stone.  the story also goes
>> that in this manner he actually won, by having the center stone link his
>> armies together at the end.  comments were made that - although highly
>> unlikely to be true - the level of play in china must not have been too
>> strong yet (remember Go is 4000 years old and this was from way back in
>> those early years, supposedly), for an easy strategem can be found to
>> foil this mirror.
>> 
>> cheers,
>> 
>>  - nate
>
>You are wrong nate.  There is no way to stop it. That's what the komi for.
>And if you watched the very old chinese games, there were 4 stones before
>the game starts.   That actually is  another way to break the symestry.
>
>--jpx 

well, this was the story.  admittedly i am not certain IF your conjecture
can be proven.  perhaps you can demonstrate.  in any case, i'm just
forwarding an anectdote i read in 1965.  i may go back a ways, but i will
deny having watched any of the 4-stone handicap games!  :-)

- nate
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess