HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Keywords: aikido, picky
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:04:01 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1993Jan5.160053.4903@athena.mit.edu> ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross) writes:
>Hey folks.  I don't play aikido, but with all the feuding over the meaning of
>the word kote, I asked a friend who spent 11 years in Japan and is fluent what
>the word means.  She said it means "forearm" and the characters literally mean
>"little hand".  I haven't asked her if it means a piece of armor which goes
>from the wrist to the forearm, since I just read that message and she is not
>conversant in armor terminology anyway :^)
>
>The word for wrist is indeed "tekubi" as Andy V. pointed out, and literally
>means "little neck".  That makes more sense (to me) anyway - though I don't
        ^^^^^^^^^^^

No, it doesn't. It means "hand/arm neck".

"Te" is sometimes used to refer to the entire arm, rather than just the hand (just
as "ashi" is sometimes used to refer to the entire leg, rather than just the foot).
In this context, "kote" == "small (part of the) arm" for the forearm makes perfect
sense.


Steve
From: GRS00037@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (Blackie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Taiji and Tai Chi.....
Date: 9 Jan 1993 03:56:40 GMT
Organization: Clan O'Foghladha
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: alf.appstate.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24





Could someone please inform one of the less informed (myself) about the 
difference between Taiji and Tai Chi?-
                                        Thanks...
						Doug.
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Kicking someone's xxx.
Date: 6 Jan 93 17:12:01 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth


>>	 customer, if he really, really verbally insulted me?"

What's with this? Have you the saying 'sticks and stones may break my 
bones, but words will never hurt me' on the left of the Pond?

Direct threats are one thing, but to go over the top just because of an insult?
Shrug and walk away! Getting wound up over an insult is a sign of weakness.
Who cares? Let the other guy burst HIS ulcer.

Someone who is this highly strung and trained in a combat discipline is 
someone to be avoided as bad news.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO)
Subject: Shaolin 5-Animal Style
Originator: cs922096@a03.ariel.yorku.ca
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Distribution: york
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:17:01 GMT



     As some may remember, I inquired some weeks ago about the actual name of
"Shaolin 5-Animal Style" Kung-Fu.  I meant does it have an name like Choy Lay-
Fut, Hop Gar, Wing Chun, etc., or is it just Shaolin......?
     Thanks for all the replies.......
     I have confirmed that the style taught at the school I am looking into IS
advertised as Shaolin 5-Animal Style, so I am now asking if this is a 
combination of various kung-fu styles, or a separate style.  




|)  Joe  (thanks)


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: eng10193@nusunix1.nus.sg (YEE BOON CHEOW)
Subject: Qi-gong
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 03:45:39 GMT

 Hi people.
 Just have a question that i have been wondering since i started
practising the art of Qi-gong.

  How does one know whether he is doing the correct method of practising
Qi. I have heard and read many instances whereby people gets injured or
insane just because they practised the art wrongly.

  I believe in this art greatly and hope to accomplish something with
it. But it is very difficult for me to gauge my improvements or even
know whether i have improved or not. But most importantly, whether i am
doing it the right way.

 Is there a way for people who practice Qi-gong to confirm his
achievements in this art and how can i be sure i won't do it the wrong
way and suffer the consequences of Zou Huo Ru Mo.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: Frank@mindlink.bc.ca (Frank I. Reiter)
Subject: Re: Taiji question - long form versus short forms
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 03:41:39 GMT

> Michael Robinson writes:
>
> >       Ummmm...what the next move is supposed to be, where exactly your
> hands
> >are supposed to be, etc...
>
> If you have to consciously think about what the next move is, you can't
> really *do* the form.  You have to practice until it becomes automatic.

I suspect that was the point - when practicing a short, well known form it is
easier to concentrate on the principles you mention below rather than
practicing a long, not yet well known (by the practitioner) form and being
distracted by trying to remember the moves.  I prefer the long form of the
style I am learning, but I always begin with the short form in order to get
into the right mindset.

> As for *exactly* where the hands should be, that is more a matter of
> individual interpretation and preference.  The details are not so important
> as making sure the hand motion conforms to Taiji principles of relaxation,
> connectedness, and proper alignment.


Frank.
--
___________________________________________________________________
Frank I. Reiter                 Internet: Frank@mindlink.bc.ca
MIND LINK! Communications Corp. Surrey, British Columbia, Canada
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: "Oriental Dancing"
Date: 12 Jan 93 08:28:29 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1iidhgINNorl@mirror.digex.com>, curt@access.digex.com (curt williams) writes:
> 
> >So in other words you feel that the world is beholden to us.  Amusing.  You
> >simply have no idea what the rest of the world has and of which the U.S. is
> >bereft.  Hey, but we sher do have money eh?
> >
> Who should be "beholden" to us?  Let me count the countries.  You can start
> off with all of Europe, China and Southeast Asia whose collective asses were
> saved by Americans in WWII.  Something about the Marshall Plan and rebuilt
> economies.  Have you studied history?  What did Hitler do to Europe?  What
> did Japan do to China and Korea.  What more would they have done had
> American's not stepped in?  What is happening to people in China today?
> 

And let's not forget Nicaragua, and Panama, and Iraq, and Cuba, and
Chile, etc., etc. Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't want to live anywhere
else. But there has been a terrible exploitative side to American
involvement in the rest of the world. Many of these countries that you
express contempt for the poverty of got that way because of American
economic policies. Through the agency of the World Bank, and other
such philanthropic organizations, third world countries are obliged to
grow cash crops, and then import their food, thereby losing out twice.
They are encouraged to use environmentally unsound means to extract
'resources' from their land, thereby making it less fit. 

We set up petty dictators here and there that say what we want to
hear, and tear them back down when we get tired of them. We scream
about 'the principles involved', but conveniently forget them if there
is no direct American economic interest. 

Perhaps someone else would have done it to them, but that never cut it
as justification to do it in my book.

I love America. I think the people are wonderful. It's the government
and the multinationals I don't trust.

But before you whip out your flag, remember that most of the grinding
poverty in the world is presently a result of European/American
political/economic/cultural imperialism. And have you been in an inner
city, lately. We ain't doing too good there either. NYC bears a pretty
close resemblance to a third world country, right now. Not to mention
LA's present resemblance to Beirut.

			Love America: Make it Better,
				Lorenzo
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Re: Car Jack
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 09:12:45 EST


Yeah, well I agree with all the sentiment about "don't brandish a weapon you
are unprepared to use."  In fact my current MA teacher has done marvels in
helping me to understand the concept of allowing one's natural animal state to
emerge via fear.  

Anyway, yes, my scenario assumes a motorist who is fully willing to kill.  I
don't know if I would be, at least using a gun.  I guess I wouldn't have any
trouble stabbing someone about 20 or 30 times if they opened my car door and
attempted to drag me or someone else from the car.  But then hell, I could
probably pull a trigger in that case too.  

I don't think these issues have anything to do with law.  If I were committed
to carrying a gun in the car, I would do so with or without the law on my
side.  My life (and anyone else's) is more important than the law as it
pertains to gun restrictions.  If you're faced with a car jacking, you have a
life/death situation on your hands.  Sure, the Gandhian approach is
superior--turn over the car and let them drive away.  However, this is not how
these events are taking place.  In the end, it is a struggle for control, and
often the perpetrators are coming to the car with weapons in hand.  I say kill
them all before they even get to the door handle.  Just blast away and
hopefully don't shoot too many innocent bystanders.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Mr.x
Organization: Twilight Zone
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 03:54:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.223831.24374@midway.uchicago.edu> wag5@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>What? You would want to be affectionate with a kunoichi?


	You bet!  If she kills me, at least I died happy and in love.
	Can't beat that.

	-X

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: haworth@cwis.unomaha.edu (Dwight A. Haworth)
Subject: Re: Hapkido weapons
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:26:21 GMT

Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org  writes:
> Dwight, our master teaches only the cane. He says that since it's
> the only one you can legitimately carry, it's the one we should
> concentrate on - especially us geriatric types. His approach to
> Hapkido is extremely pragmatic.

I agree that the cane is a useful and, in the right hands, a devastating
weapon.  From the standpoint of legitimacy, the belt is certainly not to
be overlooked, including the extension of the techniques to such items 
as handbag straps and any other flexible materials that may come to hand.
Short stick techniques may be extended to all sorts of other materials:
rolled up magazines have been mentioned in an earlier post, most tool
boxes contain a wealth of possibilities, and in a pinch just about any 
hard object that comes to hand (my swingline stapler on my desk).

The view that one must be carrying the weapon in order to use it is
IMHO a limited one.  Much of the tradition of martial arts is grounded
in the concept of being able to use whatever is available, even if all
that is available are hands and feet.  The ability to use weapons of
opportunity certainly is a part of that tradition, but effective use
suggests practice with something; hence, the use of some more formal
types like the short stick, the belt, the staff, and so on.

An acquaintance who practiced both Judo and Shotokan once commented to
me that what was really needed in America was a 'kata for the claw
hammer' and 'randori with a rachet wrench' :-).  This too gets at the
idea.

I hope more contribute to the earlier thread so that we can get a 
sense of the diversity that is taught under the umbrella of Hapkido.

  
Dwight Haworth                  | "... I arrive at the conclusion that however
haworth@cwis.unomaha.edu        | a systems problem is solved -- the solution
                                | is wrong, even dangerously wrong."
                                |              C. West Churchman
-- 
Dwight Haworth                  | "... I arrive at the conclusion that however
haworth@cwis.unomaha.edu        | a systems problem is solved -- the solution
                                | is wrong, even dangerously wrong."
                                |              C. West Churchman
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Escalation
Date: 8 Jan 93 09:21:59 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth


	Probably true, however, anyone whose brain functions, does not display
>	their weapon.  Dipslay of same is tipping your hand, which is generally
>	not thought of as good practice, particularly when the situation becomes
>	serious enough to warrant weapons.
>
>	By the time your enemy realizes you have a knife, he should already be
>	dead.  Games with knives and the sort should not be played half way.

Very true on all points

>	skill.  I see no problem with carrying a weapon on a regular basis,

Try explaining this to the police sometime they stop you on some completely
unrelated manner.

>>The First Law of Combat has to be the Law of Superior Firepower:
>>  If he has a knife, you need a gun. If he has a gun, you need a tank. If he
>>has a tank, you need an A10 etc.
>
>	Here, again, I will pick a small but IMO significant semantic nit.
>	Not superior FIREpower, but superior power, period.  This is a bit
>	broader and certainly leaves far more open to you in the way of
>	options.  Superior firepower will not always prevail.  Supeior power,
>	with all that the term implies, will, almost without exception.
>

Again agreed. 'Firepower' can be construed as a general term including
knowledge, fitness, ugliness, etc, etc. The overall aggregate is what
matters. So someone with good fitness, knowledge, and technique can 
deal with a geek with a knife. However the geek with a knife has a big
advantage over an unarmed geek.

(Trying to remeber who it was that defined a geek as someone who lives in
Geece. Politically incorrect thought for the day.)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tino@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (allen.j.tino)
Subject: Re: Anyone practice Gracie?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:40:21 GMT

From article <1993Jan9.055709.10008@cs.yale.edu>, by nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette):
> In article <1993Jan8.144054.6900@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>  
> tino@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (allen.j.tino) writes:
> 
>> They are used to balls-to-the-wall, all-out, "real" fighting --
>> and are ready to defend and demonstrate their style on the spot.
>> No bullshit.  How many of us can say the same?
> 
> How could a MA with a "power" style possibly test them?  If
> the attack against the Gracie artist is pulled, then it can be
> "absorbed".  If it isn't pulled, serious injury could result.
> 
> --
> Nathan Janette
> PPP link from hilbert.csb.yale.edu

I understand your point.  In a friendly match the Gracie JJ guy
has an unfair psychological advantage: he can do his grappling 
techniques without having to pull his punches (so to speak), but
the "power" artist must pull his strikes -- he's not really going
to rip out eyes, or break ribs, etc.

Nonetheless, the Gracies have had countless matches with other
"power" stylists under "no holds barred" conditions.  It's not
that easy to stop someone with punches/kicks if they're determined
to clinch and take you down.  (If they know what they're
doing, have balls, and don't mind taking a little punishment en
route to victory.)  This is a powerful strategy which you must
experience to believe.

Some folks argue that the Gracie's may have had countless battles
with bush-league fighters, but have never fought a REAL fighter.
That's possible, but I doubt it.

_______
Al Tino
tino@globe2.ATT.COM
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Karate Kata question: tekki series
Date: 7 Jan 1993 02:15:30 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com



Wait a minute.  Everybody knows that the real name for these forms
is Chul Gi; and they, and everything else, useful in the martial arts
come from the centuries old [not to mention highly pedigreed] Korean
styles.   --)   I'm not sure how to make a smile yet-- did I do it right?
Did I manage to make friends with Mary?

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: matt@drefla.mese.com (Matt Brandt)
Subject: Re: poor technique
Organization: Applied Engineering
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 22:31:11 GMT

wharfie writes
> 	I'm really not saying what I mean very well.  Bear with me while 
> I try again.
> 
> 	A tournament _must_ be less than realistic, or it would be 
> actual combat and not a tournament at all.  There are different approaches
> to make this unreality happen.  In judo we allow only a subset of possible
> techniques and we pad the ground and practice falling so that we can do
> that safe subset of techniques at full speed without injuring each other.
> Where I'm confused about karate tournaments is that since there _is_ no
> safe subset of techniques - what's a painless way to strike someone? - how
> can you use karate techniques in this situation without "watering them down",
> that is, NOT executing them at full power and speed?  
> 
> 	Your answer seems to be that my mistake is to believe them when they
> say "no contact", and that irregardless of the rules they really do hit each
> other with full power blows...

As Jonathan Byrd pointed out we always pull our punch back either before or
after contact (depending on whether or not we really want to hit someone). What
this means in practical terms is that we can choose how deep to sink a hit or
not to sink it at all (after a suitable amount of practice). Of course, it
doesn't always work out so nice. Anytime you block a technique short of where
the attack was intended to stop your block gets hit full power, this works
out well because we get a pretty realistic blocking practice. The other place
where 'real' contact can happen (aside from nasty sparring partners and no
control novices) is when the person being attacked moves into the attack
unexpectedly. This happens quite a bit more than you might expect (my nose
recently moved into a backfist rather briskly :-( ). So, in general we can
have a tourney or practice without landing deadly blows and still know if we
COULD have landed one as well as knowing if we can block one effectively. What
more could you want?

matt
From: exudms@exu.ericsson.se (New Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Hung Gar Kung Fu
Keywords: New Location
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:59:22 GMT
Reply-To: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
Distribution: dfw
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.


The new location for the SHAOLIN HUNG-GAR TIGER/CRANE KUNG FU
ASSOCIATION is at:

Kung Fu Acadamy
411 International suite #100
Richardson, Tx. 75081
(214) 690-6322
From: alph@wsinfo01.win.tue.nl (G.J.W. Hagenaars)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Having to be hit three times
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:51:31 GMT
Reply-To: alph@win.tue.nl

cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:

% Police officers are under a higher standard than the rest of us when it comes
% to use of forc, as a general rule.  Furthermore, this judeg
% may well represent an extreme viewpoint on the use of force. It is still
% true in common law, in general, that yuo do not need to be struck before
% you are allowed to defend yourself.  In fact, being struck is the difference
% between assault and assault and battery.

% But what really matters is the standard of the community and how much lawyer you
% can afford.  No matter what the law is, if a jury decides to acquit you, 
% you're free and nothing can overrule it.

Only when you live in a country where the courts HAVE a jury, and not
just a judge. So you were not talking about the Netherlands, i suppose.

% Charles Yeomans

Gert-Jan Hagenaars
alph@win.tue.nl
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: naam@cecer.army.mil (Ramez Naam)
Subject: Re: The Meaning Behind Style Names
Organization: US Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Labs
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:48:08 GMT

mholden@bcarh786.bnr.ca (Mark Holden) writes:

>Hi,

>I'm a casual reader of this newsgroup. I was just wondering if anybody
>has a list of, or knows the meanings of, the various style names, or parts
>of style names.

Gojuryu = go + ju + ryu = "hard" + "soft" + "style".


--
Ramez Naam
naam@terra.cecer.army.mil
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Thank you all
Date: 9 Jan 1993 09:44:48 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan9.022632.21505@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>When you look death in the face, or even your life,
>"...that which does not kill him makes him stronger..."
>is only an inspiring phrase leading nowhere.

Utter tripe.  It is a metaphor for the rhetorical strategy of _Twilight of
the Idols_; no more.  Anyone who thinks otherwise wasn't paying attention
when they read it, *if* they read it.

>India was a wealthy nation before the colonialists came.

Before which colonialists in particular?  The Indo-Aryans invaded about 4000
years ago.  The Persians, under Darius I, invaded in 522 B.C.  Alexander the
Great invaded in 326 B.C.  The Moguls invaded in 1526, and ruled until 1757,
when they were kicked out by the British.  The British ruled for another 200
years or so.

>Quote of the Age:
>"I think therefore I am" 
>	-- obvious genius.

Rene Descartes, _Meditations on First Philosophy_ (again, ripped brutally from
context).

I reiterate.
For someone who has all the answers, you sure don't seem to know very much.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Taiji question - long form versus short forms
Date: 6 Jan 1993 23:12:11 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan06.160037.25050@srg.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
>	Another argument is that martial ability is most sensitive to increases
>in basics training - stance, posture, footwork. If you do 2 repetitions of the
>long form, you have spent anywhere from 30 to 90 minutes of your training time,
>this gives less time to really concentrate on the basics.

???!?!!!!

No offense, but what exactly is it you do while practicing the long form,
if not "really concentrate on the basics - stance, posture, footwork"?


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts