HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: baer@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Ken Baer)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Re: Macintosh PlayMation experience
Summary: requires a math chip
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:01:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1993Jan27.180111.28040
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

In article <1993Jan26.034434.6136@netcom.com> mnemonic@netcom.com (Rev Lebaredian) writes:
>baer@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Ken Baer) writes:
>: In article <1993Jan24.140201.21965@netcom.com> mnemonic@netcom.com (Rev Lebaredian) writes:
>: >  The reason the rendere is so slow is because it does not take advantage
>: >of a math co-processor(essential for 3D animation).
>: 
>: Render DOES take advantage of the Math Chip, in fact all of Playmation uses
>: and requires it (says so on the box).
>:
>
>  Hmmm... I guess I was wrong, cause I got the impression from an article
>on the MAC version of it that only the 24bit rendere required a math
>coprocessor, and assumed that the reason why it ran so dog-slow on an 
>amiga version I saw was because it didn't use the math-co.  Do you know
>if all of the versions of playmation require a math-co?
> 

All versions of Playmation (and all release versions of the older 
Journeyman) require a math chip, which most 3D animation people already
have.  For the record, way back when I had a non-math chip version 
for my Amiga 2000 that I was helping to test (when it was in early 
Alpha, this was during 1989).  Believe me, you want it to use the
math chip.  Playmation will run on the following: Amiga 2500,3000 and
above with mathchip, PC 386/486 with mathchip, and MacII and Quadras
with mathchip.

One of the reasons some people say that the renderer runs slow has more
to do with what they test it with.  We keep seeing people raytrace a
scene with all objects reflecting with shadows in Playmation and compare
it to a simple polygon scene without reflects and shadows on a scanline
renderer, and declare Playmation is slow.  It's all relative.  Luckily
for everyone, 486's keep dropping in price, and they make great render
engines, and all our objects are portable between platforms.  There will
also be support for the YARC board on Mac Render24.  I'll leave you with
the following quote.

"The creators of Playmation chose to use raytracing.  Obviously, the price
paid for this decision is speed.  Still, Playmation represents one of the
fastest PC-based raytracers I have seen."  - Computer Graphics World, Jan '93



-- 
 \_       -Ken Baer.  Programmer/Animator, Hash Enterprises
<[_]   Usenet: baer@qiclab.UUCP / AppleLink: KENBAER / Office: (206)573-9427
 =# \,  "We're not hitchhiking anymore, we're RIDING!" - Ren Hoak.   
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: tfish@world.std.com (Tex Fish)
Subject: Re: Babylon5? When?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:11:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.024120.27471@news.cs.indiana.edu> vigupta@cs.indiana.edu (vivek gupta) writes:
>Hi,
>
>Lots of people have mentioned babylon5, I saw the article in Comp Graphics 
>World, but when does the show air, or has it already?
>
>Vivek

	Babylon 5 airs first on February 22.  Check local listings!  I've
seen some animations from it, they look VERY nice.

						-tfish@world.std.com

-- 
					-tfish@world.std.com
From: aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Re: What do I need for DOS 3D animation?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 13:48:38 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, watters@cranel.com (David Watters) says:

>In article <1jnddaINNivi@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel) writes:
>>
>>Since I abandoned the MS-DOS environment for video animation (I still think
>>it's gangbusters for DTP) some other fool I work with is willing to break
>>his teeth on turning his perfectly good clone into an video machine. I quit
>>trying to figure that out a long time ago, but he seems to want to try.
>>
>>He's got a 486-33 with a 280Mb hard drive, 8Mb RAM, an SVGA/VESA diplay
>>board, and a Video/VGA I/O board. In software we've got AutoCAD Rel. 11
>>w/AME, AutoShade, 3D Studio, Renderman, Animator, and Animator Pro.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>What's he need produce moving pictures? He wants to do 3D modelling &
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>animation in 24-bit resolution as well as 2D animation.
>   Didn't he answer these questions before he purchased the titles he did?
>
>Is it me, or do some post smell of piracy more than others.

Thanks for the libelous innuendo, jerk.
We've purchased all of the above software except for 3D Studio. Studio was
given to us for extended testing by Autodesk.

>In my defense, I will argue that this person should have had all these
>questions worked out before he went out and spent a fortune in software.
>
>Maybe I am paranoid, and I certainly apologize if I am wrong, but I have
>a ton of reasons to believe what I do.
>Heck, every PCdick I know has a pirated copy of 3D studio.

Just because you know pirates, doesn't mean the rest of us are without
ethics.

BTW, if you're such an expert, what are your recommendations? I notice you
failed to contribute anything except "let the buyer beware."

>David
>Watters
>
>
>-- 
>David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com)    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
>"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
> blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
>
-- 
Pete Nofel, aa794, primary sysop
It's a Mystery - The Mystery Literature Group
Cleveland Freenet, Cleveland Ohio
From: vigupta@cs.indiana.edu (vivek gupta)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Babylon5? When?
Date: 23 Jan 93 02:41:04 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University

Hi,

Lots of people have mentioned babylon5, I saw the article in Comp Graphics 
World, but when does the show air, or has it already?

Vivek
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: dburnett@emunix.emich.edu (Don Burnett)
Subject: Re: Amiga Power less than SGIs
Summary: Why must there be a ridiculous debate (my stone is bigger than
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 02:59:26 GMT

Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Eastern Michigan University
Keywords: 

I have been participating in these discussions myself, but only when I
could provide an objective opinion when I could do such.. Optimally,
I would love to have an SGI machine, and yes they make great rendering
images (just about anything from SGI is as such, throw in Sun, HP, etc).

Yes, the Amiga does have lower processor power, and that's a granted given,
yes it doesn't have the graphics engine of a workstation. That's because 
it's not. Results obtain seem to be comparable at times (i.e. final product
etc.) Yes it's low end.. No, you can't network multiple machines to 
"collectively" process an animation. But it doesn't cost like those 
machines do. So many people here like what they use and feel a need to 
defend it, and that's not necessary. I suggest that the reason that the
Amiga co-exists in the world with SGI, HP, etc. is that each fills a
specific market, sometimes there is overlap.. I don't know too many
people at home or work with their own personal workstation, but the 
software and hardware is like the difference between Apples and Oranges.

(pardon any puns)

The Amiga is successful at specific levels of the market, as are 
PCs, Macs, and SGI's.. No one machine does it all.. I would like to
see something more constructive here, like moving objects, etc. 
between platforms. I know the products exist and integrating these
things could be quite useful. 

=DonB=

-- 
******************************************************
dburnett@emunix.emich.edu
EMU Mathematics Lab Consultant
Enabling Solutions
PO BOX 318, Ypsilanti, MI  48198
*****************************************************

Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: daniel@viper.cs.unm.edu (Tommie Daniel)
Subject: Re: Amiga info needed!
Keywords: Amiga 1200
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of New Mexico
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 04:52:36 GMT

Do you have any idea how fast the Bitblt's are on the new 1200 ???

I know that some of the new SVGA cards are hitting 20 Mega Pixels / Second
on Screen to Screen blits, and 10 MPS on CPU memory to screen blits.

Does  the 1200 compare favorably ???

thanks,  Tommie Daniel
daniel@unm.edu
From: sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Re: What do I need for DOS 3D animation?
Date: 25 Jan 1993 17:21:25 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

watters@cranel.com (David Watters) writes:

>In article <1jnddaINNivi@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel) writes:
>>
>>Since I abandoned the MS-DOS environment for video animation (I still think
...
>>animation in 24-bit resolution as well as 2D animation.
>   Didn't he answer these questions before he purchased the titles he did?

>Is it me, or do some post smell of piracy more than others.
>In my defense, I will argue that this person should have had all these
>questions worked out before he went out and spent a fortune in software.

>Maybe I am paranoid, and I certainly apologize if I am wrong, but I have
>a ton of reasons to believe what I do.
>Heck, every PCdick I know has a pirated copy of 3D studio.

For the record, I own a PC, which I use for graphics and graphic production,
and I do NOT have a copy of 3D studio, legal nor pirated. I'd like to
get it someday, but cost is prohibitive at this point.

Likewise, I work with a number of people who do graphics, and none of them
seem to have pirated copies floating around.

Perhaps the number of pirated copies out there is smaller than you think.

>David
>Watters


>-- 
>David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com)    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
>"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
> blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"

(and what's more, my 914 isn't pirated either!)
___Samuel___
-- 
_________Pratice Safe .Signature! Prevent Dangerous Signature Virii!_______
Guildenstern: Our names shouted in a certain dawn ... a message ... a
              summons ... There must have been a moment, at the beginning,
              where we could have said -- no. But somehow we missed it.
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: johnc@porsche.cs.rpi.edu (John Colasante)
Subject: Please POST the FAQ!
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Computer Science, Troy NY
Distribution: comp.graphics.animation
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:51:43 GMT


Its not available at rtfm.mit archive anymore...
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
John Colasante		  		johnc@porsche.cs.rpi.edu

Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: mnemonic@netcom.com (Rev Lebaredian)
Subject: Re: Macintosh PlayMation experience
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 14:02:01 GMT

  The reason the rendere is so slow is because it does not take advantage
of a math co-processor(essential for 3D animation).  I hear that Rend24
(which should not be a seperate package) requires a math coprocessor.
 
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: gallas2@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Sean Michael Gallagher)
Subject: PV-3D
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 06:16:59 GMT

I just thought I'd post the full address to PV3D so others could get it too. 
I've already gotten some requests, and I expect there are more out there who
would like it.
You can get PV3D from the following site:
wuarchive.wustl.edu  graphics/graphics/mirrors/ftp.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/
dkbtrace/incoming.
I hope this is helpful.

Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: dburnett@emunix.emich.edu (Don Burnett)
Subject: Re: VTR
Organization: Eastern Michigan University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:28:52 GMT

In article <C12564.Cpw@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> nowinski@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Nowinski) writes:
>
>If 640x480 is the highest recordable resolution to NTSC then how
>is it the the Video Toaster can record a resolution like 768x480?
>
 First of all 640x480 pixels is actually originally a "PC" 
 number for pixels and lines.. The PC or the MAC, do not support
 (I am going to get an argument on this one) OVERSCAN.. That means
 extending the actual screen to past the borders of the screen. In other
 words no black square incasing the edge of the display.. The 
 Amiga and the toaster (using it's own graphics frame buffers) scan
 at video rates and send out at video resolution equivalents. The
 Amiga (and the toasters' buffers) don't have screen borders. 

 Early PC and MAC software didn't take advantage of getting rid of
 their screen borders, so when "genlocked" their animation, Mickey
 might have been walking off the screen, but an area of blank space
 meant he didn't actually walk off the screen. It was visible that
 parts of him would dispear before hitting the wall.. Now, genlocks
 and scan converters "underscan" things so this doesn't happen, but
 it's still a major problem having "computer borders" visible or 
 invisible..

>Can any one give me the name of a modeling/rendering/animation
>program that works like LightWave 3D but is for PC's?
> 
  One of the best is 3D Studio by Autodesk.. However, you can 
  probably buy a standalone toaster for it's price ;-)


>Is there a VCR/VTR that can record single frame and costs less
>than or about $1000.00.?
>
  Dream on ;-) How about $10000.00

>Are there any TV shows or movies that use PC's for animation or
>graphics?
>
  Sure lots of them.. I just can't name that many right now... :-)

>Is there a paint program for Targa pictures that has 32,000
>colours to use at once? And is there a animation program for
>Targa pictures that uses all 32,000 colours?
>
>
  I would suggest as a great paint program WinRix, or Fractal Design
  studio.. For Animation, Gold Disk Animation Works OR Autodesk
  Animator Pro..

>Thanks in advance.
>
>--
>Jack Nowinski


-- 
******************************************************
dburnett@emunix.emich.edu
EMU Mathematics Lab Consultant
Enabling Solutions
PO BOX 318, Ypsilanti, MI  48198
*****************************************************

Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: >>>Amiga Power less than SGIs
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 11:35:00 GMT

In <1jiusmINN4sr@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> philb@cats.ucsc.edu (Philip Brown) writes:
>> This board allows you to play back 24bit animations in
>>high resolution at real time(30fps) for recording.

>Oh, of course. Just need a few thou $$ for a CD-worm drive , or a 1-gig
>hard drive :-)

The board uses JPEG compression and decompression in real-time. A 1 Gig HD
(which is about $1500) will hold about 5-10 minutes of an animation. Few
animations require such long takes.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: razor@swix.nvg.unit.no (Runar Jordahl)
Subject: Re: What do I need for DOS 3D animation?
Organization: University of Trondheim, Norway
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 12:37:06 GMT

3D Studio is very good for doing animations, but try to output your
animations to UMatic or a better system. 640 x 512 in 24 bit (or maybe
8bit) colors or better...

Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: jamison@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (Jamie Gulden)
Subject: Re: More Questions
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 23:41:21 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <C19Jyr.Aq0@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca>
nowinski@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Nowinski) writes:
>
>What resolution does Typestry have?

Typestry will output whatever resolution you tell it to (with some
upper bound larger than you will probably ever need).
From: jarnold@spot.wrc.xerox.com (jeff arnold esc1-318)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Public Animation Format
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:43:10 GMT
Organization: Xerox


After submitting my request for an up to date specification for the FLI format
and not getting any information (I did get a few requests for information I
might have!) and after finding many inconsistencies and uglinesses in my copy
of the FLI specification, I came to the opinion that if this group is going to
actually be able to experience other peoples animations we need to come up with
a <GOOD> public animation specification. Here are a few of my suggestions:

* Multiple screen sizes - (320x200 - 1280x1024)
* Colour support - (Truecolour (i.e 24 bit) & 256 colour options)
* Sequencing support - (Looping, reversing etc)
* SMPTE support - (Multimedia options)
* Built in extendability - (Sound, text?)

Now if someone has a format that is fully documented and supports most if not
all of these features then please forward it to me and I'll shut up (MPEG ?)
otherwise how about it?

Surely we can do something better than QuickTime? ;-)

Robert

RGrant.lax1b@xerox.com
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: mark@westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson)
Subject: Re: Amiga Power less than SGIs
Organization: Radiant Image Productions, Merrimack NH.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:20:17 GMT

In article <1jhc9rINN4g6@gap.caltech.edu> woolstar@gumby.cs.caltech.edu (Derek Woolverton) writes:
>The nice part was that the indigo was twice as fast as the network of ten
>motorola cpus.
>    The software to render StrataVision scenes on the Indigo costs
>$2,000 and will be available in march.

The problem with that comparison is that StrataVision is a horrendous PIG
when it comes to render times (as is the case with most of the Mac animation
packages). Whether it runs faster on the Indigo is not truly relevant since
there are too many other variables to consider. What is relevant is that
my renderer of choice on a networked Amiga system does run faster and cheaper
than the SGI solution with one of the high-end packages available there.

A much better counter argument is the one posted by Gavin Bell. It is true
that a single more powerful system provides better feedback for scene
definition. But it is not always true that scene composition/definition
plays a major role in the animation creation. In the case of Babylon 5,
a typical scene might require 1-2 days modeling and object definition, 45
minutes of scene composition, and 4 hours of rendering. This of course
can vary dramatically depending on the animation. To help make scene
composition less of a burden in the networked case, animators frequently
create simplfied versions of their objects for scripting, which can then
be replaced at render time. This works very effectively provided that the
object count in the scene is not too astronomical.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   mark@westford.ccur.com        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: What do I need for DOS 3D animation?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 23:59:38 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


Since I abandoned the MS-DOS environment for video animation (I still think
it's gangbusters for DTP) some other fool I work with is willing to break
his teeth on turning his perfectly good clone into an video machine. I quit
trying to figure that out a long time ago, but he seems to want to try.

He's got a 486-33 with a 280Mb hard drive, 8Mb RAM, an SVGA/VESA diplay
board, and a Video/VGA I/O board. In software we've got AutoCAD Rel. 11
w/AME, AutoShade, 3D Studio, Renderman, Animator, and Animator Pro.

What's he need produce moving pictures? He wants to do 3D modelling &
animation in 24-bit resolution as well as 2D animation.

I know he needs a frame buffer. Does anyone have any suggestions? Don't
worry about getting the rendered frames to tape, we just want to get NTSC
or S-VHS out of the damned box.

-- 
Pete Nofel, aa794, primary sysop
It's a Mystery - The Mystery Literature Group
Cleveland Freenet, Cleveland Ohio
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout)
Subject: CATIA help
Keywords: CATIA, Book, no-manuals
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:29:54 GMT

Hi

I am beginning to learn how to use CATIA. The manuals supplied with the software
have proven to be very difficult to read (at least for me).

It seems that information is distributed over so many parts of the manuals that
it is difficult to get directly to what you want.

Anyways ! I needed to know from people who used CATIA, if there were any good
books like "How to Use CATIA" or any other book that will take you step by step
through what CATIA does.

Also I ned a book/ paper that will describe what CATIA can do, especially about
how CATIA stores surfaces and how do we produce an object from the description
inside CATIA (i.e. do we need to specify cutter paths etc... or is that
programmed into CATIA).

Thanks in advance


rached
Xref: sparky comp.graphics.animation:1797 alt.cad:515 comp.graphics.visualization:2100 sci.engr.mech:857