HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 20 Aug 92 07:18:35 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1992Aug19.175602.9311@ms.uky.edu> gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li) writes:
>
>Very important point here. The reason why the life was very terrible in Japan
>during the war could supposed to be:
>1. Japanese army was not strong enough. So if they have a stronger army, then
>   things will be fine.
>2. Their resources are not enough. Then, if the army promiss they can get more
>   from the other countrys by "entering peacefully". that will be fine.
>   But there is no peaceful entering ever, you have to kill every one who
>   dare to say no, and the more you kill the more hatred you create, and one
>   day you will get it back. They are not from NOWHERE.
>3. Their economy was not strong enough. But one day,when they are the number one
>   in the world, then that will not be a problem. One day, they hear a news
>   someone is endangering our life by so and so. Then it is very simple to
>   say "send the army there", 'course no one know and care what will happen
>   in the other country.
>
>So if they think that this are the courses of terrible life in the war, and
>try to solve it. One day they may be able to get a strong army, economy, then
>nothing should be afraid of. But the other countries won't just sit there
>they will also build up their army. When one day there is a war, it won't do
>anyone any good.
>That is what people worry about. Because they don't think "enter" other country
>is wrong, why they say regret from the text book you only know that it was
>Japanese had a terrible life in the war. And the reason are those like the
>above. Since they had a terrible time and you didn't, but they have to regret,
>that is a shame to them.
>Do you think all chinese are hatred-educated want to shame Japanese and posibly
>invade Japan one day. But if chinese don't know how terrible the life is when
>your army "enter" other contry. They might try (though this is the last thing
>I want to believe.) And they think you did those thing and get away safe.
>They'd like try it one day, IF THEY HAVE HALF THE CHANCE.
>The only thing to prevent this I think is let people to talk with each other
>not only "your father killed my father", but talk the War did to all those
>people, and never to fight again. But without the truth, where is the talk.
>
	I honestly wonder, Mr. Li, what the source of information that made 
	you think this way is.  It seems to me that you have never read about
	what the life of the Japanese before, during, and after WW II, and 
	probably about how the majority of the Japanese think and feel about 
	the previous war and the crimes done by the Imperial Army.  If my 
	understanding is wrong, please forgive me.

	And I agree with you completely with the second last statement.


					Tetsuya Nishimura
From: 31he@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: THE EDUCATION TO BE BLAME. RE:An open letter to emperor
Date: 20 Aug 92 10:26:14 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

   
Mr.Zuo writes:

   |The one you mentioned is surely one of them, since the
   |pains are still there, and since people are afraid of the same kind of
   |horrible things happen to us again.

I strongly agree the point. I do not hate Japanese people, but I am afraid of 
the education the government gave to them. I have a few Japanese close friend,
when we talked about the Invasion during 1937-1945, I was so surprised that what
they know is totally not true. I believe that both of the people in both of 
Japan and China do not want any war to happen again. However, this kind of 
education would lead the people to which direction is hard to predict.

Back home in China, when we know from our history class that the history 
textbook in Japan is totally different, I remember even those student once so
naughty showed up anger and fear. We read an article talked about some 
kindergarden education in Japan, teacher put some lovely apples on the table,
and ask the kids: "Do you like them? Do you want them?" Answer is yes, and then
"Then go get them. In China, everywhere have..." 

I am not sure if it is true, but from the attitude of some Japanese netters, I
think quite some people have this kind of thoughts deep in mind. That is "the 
stronger has the right to invade and conqur". I believe this kind of thoughts 
and attitude will lead to a very dangerous situation that most of the people in
the world do not want.  

   |The apology is not the real aim. The history books should tell people the
   |truth. For many Chineses and Koreans, the apology does make difference. 
   |Many reasonable people are afraid of the kind of things, happening in the 
   |ex-Sov republics and Yugoslavokia (?), will happen again to us. The war
   |is over, it is unfair to revenge young generations for the past. The really 
   |important thing is to learn something from it. Covering the crimes can't 
   |lead us to this goal.

That is right, the apology is not the real aim. What we want is a sincere 
attitude to admit the past is a tradgedy which made millions of people suffering
. Only after they show this sincere attitute, they would learn from the past, 
and would facing the truth to their people, teaching the kids the spirit of 
peace, and prevent any kind of tradgedy happens again.




_______________________________________________________________________________ 
|                                   |                                         |
|  Xiaoxia He                       | As long as there is  war, God will never|
|                                   | rest.                                   |
|                                   |                                         | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:7102 soc.culture.china:23540 soc.culture.hongkong:10028 soc.culture.taiwan:12204
From: mhs@ukc.ac.uk (M.H.Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:03:38 GMT
Reply-To: mhs@ukc.ac.uk (M.H.Smith)
Organization: Electronic Engineering Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

In article <1992Aug21.000929.958@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
   Most Jews (who still live, anyway) didn't experience Hitler's genocidal
   concentration camps.  If they denounce neo-Nazis, do you accuse them of
   racism?

No. But if they denounce all Germans I do. All I wish is that people
posting here would differentiate between the Japanese who committed
atrocities during the war and those Japanese (the vast majority of
Japanese) who didn't.

Malcolm Smith.
From: shin@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:52:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Aug21.070029.26500@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <SMITTIE.92Aug20222341@beach.csulb.edu> smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie) writes:
>>>Most Jews (who still live, anyway) didn't experience Hitler's genocidal
>>>concentration camps.  If they denounce neo-Nazis, do you accuse them of
>>>racism?
>>
>>Denunciation is in no way synonymous with hate.
>
>I see.  A call for an apology is synonymous with hate.  I would like to buy
>a thesaurus from you.

Bingo!
From: d-itasak@nmit.mt.nec.co.jp (Daisaku Itasaka)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: lotteries
Date: 20 Aug 92 08:04:43 GMT
Organization: NEC Microcomputer Technology Ltd., Tokyo, Japan

In article <Aug20.060005.45041@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
	ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura) writes:

>>				   (first prize)
>>100yen for usual ones,	#   1,000,000yen?
>>300yen for big ones,		# 100,000,000yen?
>>200yen sometimes.		#  20,000,000yen?
>>(125yen = US$1)
>>
>	I thought these were combined amounts of the first prize and the prizes
>	for its contiguously preceding and following numbers.  
>	Since many Japanese who buy lotttery tickets usually buy several sets of	ten tickets which are serially numbered, it's likely for a person to 
>	hold the prize ticket and its neighboring tickets that might win extra
>	prizes.

Yep. That's right.

>	So, if somebody buys ten 300 yen tickets and suppose he wins the first
>	prize, it's likely for him to have either preceding-number prize or 
>	following-number prize, or, to have both.  
>	(first prize: 50 million yen, each of preceding/following-number prize:
>	 25 million yen.     this person may have earned 100 million or 75 
>	 million yen)
>
>	Anybody has more precise information?

Precisely, 60 million yen for the first prize, the extra prize is 20 million
yen each.

You can get all the prize money at once in Japan. But you can't in the US.
For what it's worth, you get a small amount of the money every year for
over 20 years. (I don't know exactly.)
Anyway, anybody know why the winner can't get it all at once in the US?
I guess this fact reflects the difference about what they call the national
characteristics of the two countries.

-- 
A wrong guy in a wrong place at wrong time...
						 Daisaku Itasaka
				      d-itasak@nmit.mt.nec.co.jp
				NEC Microcomputer Technology Ltd.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie)
Subject: Re: Manzanar et al.
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 02:09:27 GMT

Regarding point a, there were actually at least 4 independent investigation by
various branchs of the government. On Dec. 9 approximately 900 people were
arrested. These were people who turned up in one of more of the investigations
as suspicious. For these 900 there was some indication that they were involved
in illegal activity.

The racists actions that followed in Feb. and later of 1943 were the result of
several government officials at local, State, and Federal levels.
----------------------
A related story that really made me sick. I was sitting outside one of the
campus eating establishments at CSULB. The was an article about the Federal
government having decided to pay all living internees $10,000. Three women were
sitting within ear shot. One of the women said, "I don't see why we're giving
all this money to these Japanese. The National Parks could really use the money
and besides, those Japanese are old and going to die soon anyway." I almost
threw up.

smittie
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie | If all of us were as smart as we think we are the
smittie@beach.csulb.edu |  current world problems would be yesterday's news.
________________________|___________________________________________________
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Fare from Osaka Airport into town
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:22:52 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

kenji@reseau.macrofield.or.jp (Kenji Rikitake) writes:

>In article <1992Aug11.152752.15917@uqvax.cc.uq.oz.au>
>	ccloretta@uqvax.cc.uq.oz.au writes:
>>I have a friend travelling to Osaka who wants to know whether to take a taxi or
>>bus from the airport into the main part of Osaka. Does anyone know an
>>approximate cost of cab or bus fares?

>Osaka Airport locates northwest suburban area of central Osaka - 
>driving directly from the airport to Umeda (northern downtown of 
>Osaka) will cost about 5000yen. Taking the bus will cost less 
>(about 1/5 to 1/10).

>I recommend your friend to take a bus to Hotaruga-ike train 
>station (Hankyu Takarazuka line) and take a train ride to Umeda if 
>he/she wants the cheapest way to get access to the downtown.

You might also ask them if they really want to go to Umeda or if
that is only some place where they will transfer to another line.
If so, then they can change at Juso (one stop before Umeda) or maybe
they won't even need to go in that direction at all! There are many
Hankyu lines and they go all over... 

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:42:40 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

TOGE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Nobukazu Toge) writes:

>Regarding this Japanese-atrocities-during-WWII stuff.

>Whatever the item may be, the oh-so-typical-persistent pattern is -

>(1) At least the government-to-government relashionship-wise it's
>    said that the victim country decides not to demand compensations
>    [this is the case for ROK and PRC, not sure about others.]
>(2) Japanese government decides, hence, that the case closed,
>(3) Victim country citizens never happy, erupting their anger
>    periodically,
>(4) Japanese government continues issuing a token "regret" word,
>(5) Victim country citizen even more infuriated, since the words
>    don't sound sincere.
>(6) Go do (3).

>This has got to stop. The Japanese (in particular the gov'ment) have to
>reveal WHAT REALLY IT WAS.  

Who on earth is qualified to say "what really it was"? But not to
worry, if the Japanese *have* to reveal it, why not just sit back
and wait for it to happen?

... 

>back, that's simply an illusion.  If one still keeps the inclination
>to call Japanese "Japs" now, it may not be too clear to such persons,
>though <--- If you find this statement abrasive, let me tell you sorry,
>but it's your problem, sir.

I don't find it particular abrasive, but I really question your good
faith in wanting the sitution between Japan and Chine to come to
some kind of graceful conclusion. 

Hint: you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: ylu@bach.helios.nd.edu ()
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 18:07:05 GMT

In article <Aug16.162535.34168@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura) writes:
>In article <1992Aug16.140030.10294@news.nd.edu> ylu@bach.helios.nd.edu writes:
>
>[stuff deleted]
>> 
>>If a large number of japs think in this way it is dangerous! For our chinese,
>>the question of how the japs was "tricked" to the war is another subject.
>>We can not mix these issues. The fact is millions of chinese civilian people
>>were killed, Buried in LIVE and killed in LIVE for medical testing by JAPs
>>on chinese land. Who can say this is not japs responsibility! no matter what
>>is the reason for their invading! 
>> 
>	I apologize if I have been too picky, but I personally think that we
>	should use appropriate and respectful words and expressions as long as
>
 
seem like you people do not feel confortable when others using "unrespectable"
words. But can you feel how the others think? The japaness invaded our country
and killed millions of civilian people. Now, they even refuse to say apology
symbolically. Is this behaviou respect other nations? hope you have some
commants! remember if you want respects, you have to respect others first!
 
>	Imperial Army did on the continent and in South Eastern Asia because of
>	our education system.  What we were told when I was in junior and senior 	high schools were mainly "when WW II began in Europe, when the Pacific 
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
 
This is exactly why so many asian nations are not happy about Japaness. The
history has already happened. You can not change it. You can not say because
your text book said this this, then, that is the fact. Who write these books?
Japaness!
>
It is the first time I heard that Japaness invaded China due to Russia. This
is totally ridiculous. I am not interested in what you are told, I am interested
in what is the fact. I do'nt think Japaness really do not know what is(was) the
reason.
 
 
I think the whole subject is very clear.
 
The Japaness invaded China and killed millions. Some body has to take some
responsibility. There are three options:
 
(1) Japaness's responsibility, then, they have to apology to China.,
(2) Chinese's responsibility, 
(3) Both Chinese and Japaness.
 
Which one you choose! 
>
          Younan Lu, Notre Dame, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: solon@beach.csulb.edu (Todd Allaria)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
	<Aug.19.14.43.01.1992.1604@sol.rutgers.edu>
	<SOLON.92Aug19133450@wren.csulb.edu> <15066@umd5.umd.edu>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:03:40 GMT

In article <15066@umd5.umd.edu> solon@beach.csulb.edu (Todd Allaria) writes:
Path: beach.csulb.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!umd5!yunson
   Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
   From: solon@beach.csulb.edu (Todd Allaria)
   Date: 20 Aug 92 02:49:20 GMT
   Sender: news@umd5.umd.edu
   References: <SMITTIE.92Aug19095225@lark.csulb.edu> <Aug.19.14.43.01.1992.1604@sol.rutgers.edu> <SOLON.92Aug19133450@wren.csulb.edu>
   Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
   Originator: yunson@vs2.umd.edu
   Lines: 13

   >Todd


   Yes, there is not much point aplogizing after 50 years.  It is 
   unbelievable that 50 years has passed without an official 
   apology. What a shock to me! Yes (again), the apology won't
   serve its purpose now. Too late!!! But late is better than
   never, anyway. 

   Yunson Du
   University of Maryland
   College Park

Can you tell me how you responded to my post using my address????
From: ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: On Japanese apologies
Date: 20 Aug 92 07:03:11 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <92232.183350TOGE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> TOGE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Nobukazu Toge) writes:

[stuff deleted]
>
>Now why the Japanese voters won't dump LDP?  I guess the biggest reason
>is a lack of alternatives.  Do we Japanese think that it's OK?  I don't
>know about everyone but I think that many feel no it's not OK at all.
>I should also say that it's not only the ruling party but also the huge
>bureaucracy that the Japanese has managed to build up. Sometimes they are
>so effective and efficient (e.g. MITI in some areas), but manytimes they
>are so damn hard-nosed and plaguing.
>
	I think it's NOT OK.  As Mr. Toge said, there is NO alternative for
	current dominant LDP.  Japan Socialist Party?  No way.  Even though
	it is the second majority, they don't have any practical policies to 
	take over the government, I think.


						Tetsuya Nishimura
From: solon@beach.csulb.edu (Todd Allaria)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:34:54 GMT
	<SMITTIE.92Aug18124612@beach.csulb.edu> <4328@inca.comlab.ox.ac.uk>
	<SMITTIE.92Aug19095225@lark.csulb.edu>
	<Aug.19.14.43.01.1992.1604@sol.rutgers.edu>
Followup-To: soc.culture.japan
Organization: Cal State Long Beach


 In article <Aug.19.14.43.01.1992.1604@sol.rutgers.edu> lixj@sol.rutgers.edu
 (Xiao-jian Li) writes:
 >>smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie) writes:
 >>continue to teach and promote hatred will very likely be the cause of future
 >>problems.
 
--What problem? Do you mean China would invade Japan to get its revenge?
--Forgiveness only comes after a sincere apology. To teach history doesn't
--mean to promote hatred. You certainly can not expect Jewish forget
--Halocaust and Chinese forget Nanjin Massacre. You seem to expect us
--forgetting everything while let go of the other side which has yet to
--take any proper action.


I'm jumping into this discussion because I question some of the statements
being thrown around here.

First, Smittie does not say that teaching history promotes hatred. He (IMO) is
saying that promoting hatred promotes hatred. He is not avocating anyone to
forget anything, but to understand that it was a part of the past and to learn
and go on. Of course, if this does not express Smittie's view, he will correct
me.

Second, I have yet to understand what this mysterious appology is supposed to
accomplish. Are you telling me that this will allievate the suffering that
these comfort girls went thru? The people that were killed in Nanking? How many
of them or their survivers will believe that an appology given 50 years after
the fact has ANY meaning what so ever? Who will believe that it was given in
sincerness? I get the feeling that if the Japanese government were to give this
appology, there would still be a vocal group protesting it was not enough, or
not sincere or whatever. Again, IMO an appology serves no useful purpose. Does
this mean that the actions that were taken during the war were right? Of course
not, but I don't see this as a viable way address them.

Todd
From: ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Irresponsibility (Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japan)
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:32:40 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523


	Ahm, just one thing.  Many people seem to have mentioned about "history
	books" in Japan.  We DO have many history books and articles that deal
	with the issue fairly correctly (I believe, and from those books I 
	learned about what Japanese Army did).  I can't recall the names of the
	books now, I'm sorry.

	"History books" we are talking about are history text books to be used 
	in high schools that will be censored before they are published as 
	text books.  So we have ways to learn about the fact (and sometimes
	about biased information) in Japan.

	The problem I think is, it is these text books that are censored and 
	watered-down or de-emphasized.  After school, many people just have no
	chances to take a look at history books unless they like to read them.

	So, we do have both sides of information in public, but unfortunately,
	this is rarely the case for school text books.  This IS the problem.


						Tetsuya Nishimura
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: karchang@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kar Man Chang)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:51:19 GMT

In article <SMITTIE.92Aug19095225@lark.csulb.edu> smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie) writes:
>No, you don't see. You are twisting my words. The Chinese did not cause the
>problems between 1931 and 1945. They were the victims. However, those who
>continue to teach and promote hatred will very likely be the cause of future
>problems.
>
>I do not wish to lessen the severity of the past. I question the perpetuation
>of hatred into the future.
>
>smittie
>--
To use a much tamer analogy, if someone mistreated you once, would you
trust him afterwards?  If he apologizes, at least I know that he knows
he did something wrong, and our relationship can probably start all over
again.  But if he doesn't, I will be under the impression that he
does not think that what he did is wrong, that we have very different
standards of opinion, and we may never be able to interact beneficially.

I know some Japanese who are nice, but I only know a few Japanese, so
my impression about Japanese is dominated by what I hear in the news 
about the actions of their government and politicians. This may be a
biased opinion, but that is all that I have got. 

Even during WWII, I don't believe that all Japanese want to conquer
China.  But the government controlled everything then, and it still
appears that the government is in control now.  If the Japanese 
government does not admit that what it did during WWII was wrong,
there is no reason why its neighbours should not be suspicious of
its intent.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan