HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: sci.astro

/ hpopd:sci.astro / meier@Software.Mitel.COM (Rolf Meier) /  5:49 pm  Nov  3, 1992 /
In article <1992Nov3.102808.18336@news.unige.ch> pfennige@scsun.unige.ch (PFENNIGER Daniel) writes:

>I am considering purchasing a Schmidt Cassegrain telescope to one of the 
>companies advertising in Sky and Telescope.  Has anybody any advice or
>good or bad experience to share with the sci.astro group (or with me by e-mail)?

A couple of years back I decided to purchase a Celestron C8. I already had a
C80 and to save money I wanted to unload the C80 tube and purchase just the
C8 tube assembly. I was living in California at the time and decided to use
the services of Pauli's Optical of Danbury CT. They agreed to purchase my old
tube and could supply the new tube standalone. Some weeks later the new C8
tube arrived. After a few minutes checking it out I noticed what looked liked
a defect on the corrector plate, it appeared that the plate was chipped around
the center. I called the dealer up and as soon as I started to explain what I
was seeing the guy on the other end said something to the effect of "Yes we saw
that too, don't worry about it its only a little glue thats seeped out". 

However I was still not convinced it was of no importance so I contacted 
Celestron and sent the tube to them for inspection. They got back to me to 
tell me that the defect I saw was in fact due to a cracked corrector plate and
without doubt the tube had been dropped. Since the dealer had acknowleged the
existance of the defect (if not the cause), it was highly likely that the 
damage occured due to their mis-handling. Celestron were very annoyed that I
had been treated like this and agreed to repair the tube without charge to 
me. Needless to say I would not use this dealer again!

Steve Pearce, Hewlett-Packard, Pinewood, UK
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Curtis Roelle)
Subject: M.O. Problem w/A.L. Supporting Member (was: Experience w M.O.)
Summary: Sad but true tale doing business with A.L. Supporting Member.
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:26:32 GMT

My worst Mail Order Experience Involved Dixie Telescopes of Atlanta,
and the Astronomical League.

About 10 years ago I ordered a pair of rotating rings from Dixie for a
12.5" telescope I constructed and never saw rings or money again.  
Telephoning the store did not as the owner was never in.  Would have to
leave messages instead to a giggling clerk.

I contacted _Astronomy_ and _Sky and Telescope_ who both ran Dixie
ads.  Both wrote back sympathetic letters explaining that Dixie ran off
owing them for advertising expenses.  They also reported receiving
other complaints about Dixie as well.  The Postal Inspector said the
shop was closed with no forwarding address.  You get the picture.

The biggest waste of time was in contacting the Astronomical League
(A.L.).  The A.L. has a fellow (call him J.A.) with a title which
goes something like Ombudsman for Consumer Affairs.  His job is
investigating consumer complaints by A.L. members.  The idea being
that 14,000 voices are louder than 1.  (Unless it turns out the 1 is a
"Supporting Member" of the League.)

Upon hearing my complaint, J.A. was surprised and pointed out that
Dixie Telescopes was a "Supporting Member" of the A.L.  J.A. said he
was on a first name basis with T.C. (owner of Dixie Telescopes).  J.A.
said, "There must just be a misunderstanding.  I know T.C. personally
and can vouch him."  Nevertheless he agreed to speak with T.C. the
following week at the Astrofest convention in Chicago.  I called J.A.
after Astrofest and he informed me Dixie was out of business and there
was no further action the A.L. would take.  Case closed.

About 4 years later I accompanied an A.L. sponsored tour to Peru.  One
night at a reception in a planetarium near Lima, I met J.B., the A.L.
Vice President.  I introduced myself and we started talking.  During
our conversation I turned to the problem with Dixie, pointing out that
Dixie Telescopes had been an A.L. supporting member and that despite
claims of consumer protection, the A.L. had no teeth behind their
bark.  The V.P. snapped back, "Do you know who you're talking to?  Do
you know who I am?  I am J.B., Vice President of the Astronomical
League."  I said "Naturally I know who you are.  Why else would I be 
belling these things to you?"  That was the end of our conversation. 
However, I was amazed when later on during the tour in Peru, I saw 
J.B., the A.L. V.P., paling around with none other than T.C., the 
former Dixie Telescopes owner.  T.C. did not know me, and when I 
approached them he smiled cheerily and handed me a business card for 
his latest venture.

From this experience I learned:

(1) Don't trust a company just because they advertise in respected
magazines.

(2) Never pay 100% down for a product.

(3) Pay the A.L. $150 to become a supporting member, and they'll look
the other way.

Curt Roelle

Opinions are mine, and not those of my customer or their clients.
From: meh@atlantis.Unify.Com (Mark E. Hansen)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Lunar astronaut covers earth with thumb
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:16:56 GMT
Organization: Unify Corporation, Sacramento CA.

In article <30473@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM>, wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson) writes:
|> On the last installment of "Space Age" Jim Lovell said while he
|> was in the vicinity of the moon, he could cover the earth with his
|> thumb while his arm was outstretched. (It was also attributed to
|> Rusty Schweikart).
|> 
|> I heard this a few years ago on a radio talk show with one of 
|> the lunar astronauts as guest--was it Jim Lovell? 
|> 
|> A caller, who had a German accent, had trouble with this reasoned:
|> 
|> (1) This distance to the moon from the earth is the same as the
|>     as the distance to the earth from the moon,  
|> 
|> (2) The earth is larger than the moon, and
|> 
|> (3) We ordinary mortals here on earth can't cover the moon with 
|>     a thumb with arm outstretched.
|> 
|> His unstated conclusion was that the astronaut could not have done
|> it and you could sense his reluctance to call the astronaut a liar.

Actually, the astronaut would be able to as he would have on a suit, the
glove, of course, would more than double the size of his thumb.

:-) :-)  Sorry, I simply couldn't resist. I'm going back to work now ...


|> 
|> What is the error the caller made? Give up? It's number (3).
|> There's a full moon out tonight. Go out and try it.
|> 
|> -- 
|> Bruce Watson (wats@scicom)  Tumbra, Zorkovick; Sparkula zoom krackadomando.  

-- 
Mark E. Hansen                                     internet: meh@Unify.Com
Unify Corporation                           ...!{csusac,pyramid}!unify!meh
3901 Lennane Drive                                   voice: (916) 928-6234
Sacramento, CA 95834-1922          		       fax: (916) 928-6401
From: jordan@warped.pnl.gov (Randy Jordan)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Questions About Nickel-Iron Meteorites
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:14:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: oracle.1992Nov13.171450.12454
Reply-To: jordan@warped.pnl.gov (Randy Jordan)
Organization: Battelle, Pacific Northwest Laboratory


In article <69421@cup.portal.com>, mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) writes:
|>Path: pnl-oracle!ogicse!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!mmm
|>From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)
|>Newsgroups: sci.astro
|>Subject: Questions About Nickel-Iron Meteorites
|>Message-ID: <69421@cup.portal.com>
|>Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 22:04:34 PST
|>Article-I.D.: cup.69421
|>Organization: The Portal System (TM)
|>Lines: 40
|>
|>I have some questions about the Wilmarstatten (sp?) patterns in
|>meteorites.  These are the lines which appear if you cut a nickel-iron
|>meteorite, polish the surface, then treat it with acids or something.
|>You can see lots of good examples at the Smithsonian.
|>
|>I remember hearing somewhere that metal meteorites cool very slowly
|>-- over many years or even centuries -- and that these patterns are
|>caused by the large grain structure which develops.
|>
|>This has always bothered me.  I don't see how they could cool so slowly.
|>Although surrounded by vacuum, which is an excellent thermal insulator,
|>meteorites are also surround by the cold blackness of space.  I would
|>guess that a quantity of molten metal placed in space would freeze solid
|>and become cold to the touch within a few days at most.
--
	Why does the shuttle orbit with the bay doors open and in the shade?

	Heat ... the disipation of heat is very hard to do with no media
	short of IR.  You must have a medium to remove heat and a vacuum
	has none. Also it is cold in only one direction ... away from the 
	Sun.
RJ

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
	To Thyne Own Self be true...
	                             myne opinions are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: aalpern@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: help
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:05:44 GMT


Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: batchelor@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Dave Batchelor, Space Phys. Data Facil. 301/286-2988)
Subject: Re: Know an adjective for black holes?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 03:43:00 GMT

In article <69374@cup.portal.com>, Robert_N_Brauer@cup.portal.com writes...
>>   To refer to the Earth, I can use  "terrestrial".
>>   To refer to the stars, I can use  "stellar".
>>   To refer to galaxies,  I can use  "galactic".
>>   To refer to black holes,  what can I use?
>>
>>Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks.
>>
>>Greg Aharonian
>>-- 
>>**************************************************************************
>>Greg Aharonian
>>Source Translation & Optimiztion
>>P.O. Box 404, Belmont, MA 02178
> 
>I suggest the term "post-stellar" in accord with the theory that
>they are the collapsed cores of super-massive stars. If you are 
>coping with the mathematical concept, how about "singular".
> 
>Bob Brauer      Robert_N_Brauer@cup.portal.com

I suggested 'negrivesicular' in a previous post, but consulting the book _Black
Holes: The Membrane Paradigm_, edited by K. S. Thorne, R. H. Price, and D. A.
Macdonald, I see that these authors repeatedly just use "black-hole" as an
adjective (e.g. black-hole research).  While uncreative, this practice is
clearly sanctioned by standard use in authoritative literature.

Cheers,
])ave
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Dave Batchelor   Space Science Data Operations Office   Mail Code 632
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center  Greenbelt  MD  20771  USA
batchelor@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: F1.DAO@isumvs.iastate.edu (David Oesper)
Subject: Position of Celestial Object Using Triangulation
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 06:12:39 GMT

I have just purchased a Celestron Micro Guide Eyepiece which has,
among other things, a finely graduated linear scale for the
measurement of angular distances on the sky.

Can anyone suggest a reference describing the mathematics,
algorithm, or computer program to solve the following general
problem?

Given three stars of known position in the field (equinox 2000.0
coordinates, for example) with coordinates (alpha1,delta1) and
(alpha2,delta2) and (alpha3,delta3), and the angular distance from
each star to a fourth object with unknown coordinates
(alpha0,delta0) where these distances are given as d1, d2, and d3,
respectively, how would you go about calculating the position of the
fourth object and the probable error of that position?  Given the
relative crudeness of our measurements, would we be able to ignore
the effects of precession, nutation, proper motion, and stellar
aberration to get a reasonably accurate position for the object?  It
is a given that all four objects will be in the same field of this
12.5 mm-focal-length eyepiece, and thus very close to each other.

Isn't this just a simple exercise in triangulation?
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: tholen@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen)
Subject: Re: Good Book for Orbit Determination...
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 13:29:00 GMT

Bruce Watson writes:

> But the best new one to come along is "Celestial Mechanics, A Computational
> Guide for the Practitioner", Laurence G. Taff, Wiley, NY 1985. He
> dispels many of the myths of orbit determination.

Tries to dispel would be more like it.  See Marsden's followup paper in the
Astronomical Journal, in which he takes Taff to task for his condemnation
of Gauss' method in favor of Laplace's method.
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: ka1gt@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (robert.m.atkins)
Subject: Re: Experiences with telescope mail order
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:38:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.183319.24802@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, jfbn@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.f.burnell) writes:
> > 
> > For what it's worth, I also have had some bad dealings with Pauli's (who I believe also owns
> > Wholesale optics of PA).   Last Christmas I decided to buy a telescope.  So, I started to call
> 
> I know for a fact that Pauli's is not affiliated with Wholesale Optics of PA.

I was under this impression too, but when I ordered some TeleVue eyepieces
from Pauli's, I actually received them from Wholesale optics of PA. I know
they came from there because there was a mistake in the order and I had to
exchange one. Wholesale optics of PA were very helpful with the exchange.
I still don't know how the order got from Pauli's to PA. This all took place
maybe 18 months ago. Strange. As I have commented before, Pauli is odd. Don't
expect to bargin on prices. He has what he has, at his price and wants cash
if you go there to pick something up. If you're not sure what you want, a 
visit may be a waste of time. If you do go, get there on time. I got one
story (via email) from someone who arrived just as he was closing. He would
not reopen the office. If you want good customer support, try elsewhere. I
have been pleased with ORION. Their prices are a little on the high side
though, so I have only bought small items from them.

===============================================================
Bob Atkins  AT&T Bell Labs  email (direct)  att!clockwise!rma
===============================================================
Newsgroups: sci.misc
From: jones@ils.nwu.edu
Subject: New Ph.D. Program
Organization: institute for the learning sciences
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:23:08 GMT

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a m


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Students are eligible for competitively-awarded multi-year funding. To qualify
for financial aid, candidates should apply by January 15, 1993. Applications
received after that date may be  considered. Individuals with relevant teaching
experience or a strong academic  background in a field related to the Learning
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Ph.D. Program Chair 
The Learning Sciences 
Northwestern University
1890 Maple Avenue
Evanston, IL  60201
phone: 708-491-8152
fax:    708-491-5258
email: jones@ils.nwu.edu
  
Newsgroups: sci.misc
From: gay@selkirk.sfu.ca (Ian D. Gay)
Subject: Re: Collection of Gasses
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:15:21 GMT

Roger.Firestone@f349.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Roger Firestone) writes:

> are extracted from the atmosphere, primarily by
>liquefaction.  After the O and N condense out, what is left is a rare gas
>mixture, as they all have much lower boiling points than O and N (being

No, only He & Ne do. Ar is between N2 & O2, Kr & Xe have higher 
boiling points
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: sci.misc
Subject: Re: Collection of Gasses
Date: 9 Nov 1992 16:25 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

{How the noble gases get from the environment into the little bottles}

There's a nice, brief write-up on this subject under "Helium-group gases"
in the Wiley-Interscience Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology.  The 
sound-bite answer is that helium comes from natural-gas wells in certain
parts of the world, and the others come from liquid air (the different
constituents of which liquefy and vaporize at different temperatures).

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: lizst@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: sci.misc
Subject: molecular biology graduate program?
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:57:19 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


I am finishing my undergraduate degree this year and would like to go on to do
my graduate study in molecular biology.  Does anyone know about universities 
with strong molecular biology program?  I am looking towards doing a Ph.D. 
hopefully without having to get a Masters degree fisrt.  I am open to suggestion
in terms of the specific areas within molecular biology.  Research can be either
basic or applied. At the moment, my interest lies within mobile DNA elements, 
introns studies from evolutionary perspective, nucleosomes and gene regulations,
and gene regulations in archaebacteria.  

If anyone have any suggestion, could you please e-mail me at either of these
address:
			LIZST@AC.DAL.CA
                              or
                   KURNIAWANJ@IMB.LAN.NRC.CA 

Thanks a lot. 


Joelius Kurniawan.            
Newsgroups: sci.misc
From: mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Marc Roussel)
Subject: Re: Collection of Gasses
Organization: Department of Chemistry, University of Toronto
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:44:15 GMT

In article <19921109.074119.367@almaden.ibm.com> simonofb@wmavm7.VNET.IBM.COM
writes:
>I have a question that has been bothering me for a while now.
>You can buy canisters the nobel gasses from supply houses.
>I am wondering how they find, isolate, and collect these
>gasses.

     I can give a partial answer to this question.  Most of the noble
gases (note the spelling) are collected as byproducts from various
mining processes.  Helium for instance is collected from natural gas
deposits.  (If the rocks are sufficiently impermeable to trap natural
gas, they are usually sufficiently impermeable to trap helium.  The
helium was just part of the initial mixture of gases which formed the
planet.  Any He in the atmosphere has escaped by now but some of it
became trapped during the solidification of the outer crust.)  Argon is
present in sufficient quantities in the crust (and is heavy enough not
to escape readily) that it tends to accumulate in people's basements;
I presume that the other noble gases can be found in similar ways.
     The purification process should be fairly simple.  One can first
use some set of chemical reactions to get rid of all the non-noble
gases.  (After all, we can fairly well count on the noble gases not
reacting except under unusually extreme conditions.)  Once that is done,
the noble gases should easily be separable from one another by gaseous
effusion since the mass ratios between successive members of the group
are reasonable.

				Marc R. Roussel
                                mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca
From: Roger.Firestone@f349.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Roger Firestone)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: sci.misc
Subject: Collection of Gasses
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 20:24:00 -0500

* In a message originally to All, Marc Roussel said:
MR> From: mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Marc Roussel)
MR> Newsgroups: sci.misc
MR> Organization: Department of Chemistry, University of Toronto

[stuff deleted]

MR>      I can give a partial answer to this question.  Most of
MR> the noble
MR> gases (note the spelling) are collected as byproducts from
MR> various
MR> mining processes.  Helium for instance is collected from
MR> natural gas
MR> deposits.  (If the rocks are sufficiently impermeable to
MR> trap natural
MR> gas, they are usually sufficiently impermeable to trap
MR> helium.  The
MR> helium was just part of the initial mixture of gases which
MR> formed the
MR> planet.  Any He in the atmosphere has escaped by now but

I don't think so.  I understand that the helium present in natural gas (wells in
Kansas are a good source) is actually a radioactive decay product from the
actinide elements present in the crust and mantle rocks, which decay by alpha
particle emission (U and Th, principally, and their daughter products).

MR> crust.)  Argon is
MR> present in sufficient quantities in the crust (and is heavy
MR> enough not
MR> to escape readily) that it tends to accumulate in people's
MR> basements;

I think you mean radon (Rn), which is also a radioactive daughter element that
outgasses from igneous rocks, primarily, especially in certain areas in the
eastern US (e.g., the Reading Prong, NW of Philadelphia).

MR> I presume that the other noble gases can be found in similar
MR> ways.

Except for He and Rn, the other rare gases (the term "noble" has fallen into
disuse since Kr and Xe can undergo chemical reactions with fluorine and also
form bonds with oxygen) are extracted from the atmosphere, primarily by
liquefaction.  After the O and N condense out, what is left is a rare gas
mixture, as they all have much lower boiling points than O and N (being
monatomic, their liquids are held together by van der Waals forces only, where
as O and N have dipole moments that help them condense, I believe).  The earth's
atmosphere is about 1% Ar, so Ar is not all that "rare" a gas; the others (Ne,
Kr, Xe) are pretty scarce in the atmosphere (as are He and Rn, which have
already been discussed as to their other sources).  The mixture can be separated
by fractional distillation, as the boiling points of the rare gases are
noticeably different.  Gaseous diffusion would be the hard way!  (It was the
choice for uranium hexafluoride, but the mass difference there was about
.7%--not enough for a significant b.p. difference.)

Roger M. Firestone, Ph. D.
Associate Director, Eng. Svcs.
Maden Tech
From: sascha@sfb313.uni-kiel.dbp.de (Sascha Welter)
Newsgroups: sci.misc
Subject: Program for algebraic solutions???
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:12:33 GMT
Organization: SFB-313 University of Kiel, Germany

I'm looking for a program to solve wave-functions algebraic, so
no numerical solutions.
Is there a program outside there running on VMS, UNIX or PC (DOS)
doging what I'm looking for?

Thanx, Sascha

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sascha welter					  sascha@sfb313.uni-kiel.dbp.de
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Newsgroups: sci.misc