HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Hudson -> Erie, etc. (was: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?)
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:14:25 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

In article <2935512131.0.p00004@psilink.com> "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com> writes:
>>DATE:   6 Jan 93 19:16:08 GMT
>>FROM:   Robert Hanners <hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
>>>However, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Chicago River
>>>connects to the Illinois River which connects to the Mississippi and
>>>thence to the Gulf.  Although once again that route may be fit only for
>>>a canoe.  Anybody know for sure?
>>
>>Yes, this is good for relatively large, crud resistant boat hulls.
>>I suggested this route to Ray.  Many make this loop-- my next door neighbor
>>for one.  Seems, however, that the Ohio R. is paramount to Ray's itinerary.
>>
>>My neighbor did it once in his 32' sailboat, nows plans to repeat it
>>this spring in a 35' trawler. 
>
>
>What did he do with his sailboat's mast? Or did he have to? I seem to 
>recall that the segment through Chicago, at least, has some rather low 
>bridges, but I can't recall whether they open or not. If they do, is it 
>only at certain hours?
>

You do indeed have to drop the mast if you're going all the way down
the Chicago river. After about 8 miles the bridges no longer open.
From: frank@sw.stratus.com (Frank Liva)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 11 Jan 1993 21:32:43 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bombay.sqa.stratus.com


Tankers built in recent years seemed to be built to last for about 5-10 years. 
After that length of service they are sold to a Greek or Panamanian shipping
company.  Not only do such vessels have single screws and ruders, most of them
have only a single boiler (If steam) or the smallest diesel allowable for their
tonnage.  My understanding is that it only takes a few gallons of seawater in 
the boilers feedwater to wreck the system.  Naval and passenger ships invariably
have multiple boilers with multiple condensers to reduce the risk of crippling
the ship.  Japanese shipyards have for years specialized in making these 
jerry-built monsters.  The shipyard makes a profit, the original owner gets a 
big ship cheap and sells it off when it's used up.   As long as ships are built
as a commodity item similar accidents will continue to occur.

Frank

frank@bombay.sqa.stratus.com

(The opinions expressed are entirely my own.)
From: len@persephone.think.com (Leonard Franco)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:27:33
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: persephone.think.com
In-reply-to: paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com's message of 5 Jan 93 03:06:35 GMT

Regarding Coast Guard boarding authority, unless I'm terribly
mistaken the USCG has the authority to board US registered
vessels anywhere in the world.

Len
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: New AC Rules
From: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Date: 7 Jan 93 11:02:00 MDT
Reply-To: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1id9stINN2gp@calvin.NYU.EDU>, roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
|>Relay-Version: VMS News - V6.0-3 14/03/90 VAX/VMS V5.4; site cc.usu.edu
|>Path: cc.usu.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!cmcl2!calvin!mchip00.med.nyu.edu!roy
|>Now that's what I'd like to see -- a boat that could get from Utah to San
|>Diego on it's own bottom!
|>
It's a piece of cake.  Just sail down the Colorado River.  Now I admit the
portages around Glen Canyon, Hoover, and other dams might be a bit of a challenge, and the bottom might need to be faired a bit after the passage
through Grand Canyon, but hey for a syndicate with the resources of A^3
it should be easy.
--
Hal Lynch

	US Mail:  Utah State University
	          Office of Computer Services
	          Logan, Utah 84322-4410
	Internet: Hal@cache.declab.usu.edu
From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Sailing Schools/Buying a used sailboat!
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:07:12 GMT
Reply-To: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: nonsuch.ebay.sun.com

In article 1@ducvax.auburn.edu, mautzcl@ducvax.auburn.edu () writes:
> 
>  I am considering taking a course in sailing from a school called Blackbeard
> Sailing School, located in Darien, Ga.  This is down near Savannah.  Does
> anyone here have any experience with this school, or know anyone who does?
> I met the guy at the Atlanta Boat Show, and he impressed me the most.
>

I know nothing about this sailing school.

 
> Also, I was told that hunter and catalina's were junk boats, and this was by
> some girl from another sailing school.  She said they were alright freshwater
> boats, but stay away from deep water.  I personally like these boats, and
> was looking at 26-28' boats.  Does anyone have any experience with these, and
> how do they hold up/handle in deeper water, say cruising to the carribean
> or bahamas.  I want something that I can sail locally, and take down there
> if the occasion arises.
>
 
I know Wayne will have something to say on this, and I would trust his advice.

I have very limited experience with the Hunter boats.  They have changed quite a
bit over the years, but you need someone who knows the boats well to tell you 
what has changed for the better and what has changed for the worse as far as
ocean sailing ability is concerned.

I take exception to the statement that a Catalina is a junk boat - they are not!
I owned a Catalina 27 for eight years, and found it to be a completely satisfactory
boat.  Sure, the interior wood was not finished like fine furniture and many of 
the fittings were on the cheap side.  Yes, there were many things I added and 
upgraded to make them stronger or to work better.  But, a Catalina doesn't 
pretend to be a Hinkley or Pacific Seacraft.  They are good boats, and very good
boats for the money.  I would have no reservations about sailing one (properly
prepared) to the Bahamas.  I am not so sure about the Caribbean.  The boats were
never intended to be off-shore passage makers, although they have been sailed 
around the world.  I think a Catalina would be an excellent choice as a boat to
sail locally, and it could be taken to the islands if you wished.  Most likely,
however, by the time you gain enough sailing experience to where you will be
seriously thinking of going to the islands you will be wanting to get another 
boat.  If that turns out to be the case, I think you will find the Catalina
relatively easy to sell or trade. 

My opinion, for what it is worth (what it cost),

Jeff Huntington
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: diesel outboards
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:26:03 GMT

Does anyone use the Carniti or Yanmar (or perhaps another which I have
not heard of) diesel outboard engines, and would they care to share
their experiences with them?     Robert Enenkel
From: mautzcl@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Sailing Schools/Buying a used sailboat!
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:14:15 GMT


 I am considering taking a course in sailing from a school called Blackbeard
Sailing School, located in Darien, Ga.  This is down near Savannah.  Does
anyone here have any experience with this school, or know anyone who does?
I met the guy at the Atlanta Boat Show, and he impressed me the most.

Also, I was told that hunter and catalina's were junk boats, and this was by
some girl from another sailing school.  She said they were alright freshwater
boats, but stay away from deep water.  I personally like these boats, and
was looking at 26-28' boats.  Does anyone have any experience with these, and
how do they hold up/handle in deeper water, say cruising to the carribean
or bahamas.  I want something that I can sail locally, and take down there
if the occasion arises.

thanks.
   
Also, I was told that Hunter and Catalina's are junk boats... by a girl from
another sailing school.  I personally like these boats, and was looking at
 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tomb@atp.serum.kodak.com (Tom "USA" Bullinger (x37419))
Subject: Info on Allied Princess Wanted
Followup-To: rec.boats 
Summary: Almost ready to buy.
Reply-To: tomb@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:19:13 GMT

My wife and I have been looking at various boats over the past few
months and have decided we'd like an Allied Princess Ketch. Before
we make the big plunge, does anyone have any comments on this boat?
We'd be really interested in anything you could tell us, good or
bad. Like how about that mast right in front of the companionway?
I mean, what's the deal? Does it get in the way? And how about
accessability to the engine? And sailing performance? Interior
layout? Things to look for when buying? Particular problem areas?
Thanks for your opinions, It's hard to make decisions in a vacuum,
and rec.boats is a great place for exchanging info.
Mucho Gracias!

	tomb..

P.S. How many of us 'netters' are planning on attending Sail Expo
	in Atlantic City? Would any be interesting in meeting Sat.
	evening for a few drinks?? Anyone familiar with this area that
	could suggest a location?


Laser #15878
Bristol Corsair #270
Allied Princess #???

         ------------------------------------------------------
        | tomb@serum.kodak.com                                 |
        |                                                      |
        | "How can he remember well his ignorance -- which his |
        |  growth requires -- who has so often to use his      |
        |  knowledge?"     Henry David Thoreau                 |
         ------------------------------------------------------
From: schlenst@zow09.enet.dec.com (Stefan Schlenstedt (DESY))
Subject: Question: Sailing in Greece
Reply-To: schlenstedt@desy.de
Organization: DESY, ZEUS, DE
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 21:53:44 GMT

--

I am planning a sailing tour this summer in Greece. Any recommendations on

- renting a boat
- harbours
- islands, beaches
- ???

Thanks in advance,

Stefan Schlenstedt

schlenstedt@desy.de
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Newsgroups: rec.boats

According to the Boats U.S. newsletter I received, the Coast Guard "users fee"
is applied only for boats 21 feet and longer.  The question I have is:
How is the length of a boat determined for the purposes of this tax?

The boat I have is a Sea Ray Laguna 20 which is registered as a 20 foot boat.
The overall length is 22' 8" according to their literature.  BTW, in 91 or 92
they changed the model to a Laguna 21 without any hull changes.  The reasoning
was that to be competitive they included the length of the "euro-style"
swim platform.  Even at that, I'm not sure if any of the overall lengths 
include the outboard motor.

I'll ask the coast guard auxilliary at the upcoming SF boat show.  I'd hate
to incur a fine over the interpretation of length.

Dick Lucas
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dean@MorningStar.Com (Dean Schell)
Subject: Re: Atlantic City Boat Show Feb. 4-7th, 1993
Organization: Morning Star Technologies
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:02:55 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.153359.8170@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mgsail@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (goldstein,marvin) writes:
>
>This is the first time "sail Expo" is being held.  It is the sailboat 
>industry's answer to the high prices of the New York Boat Show.  I'm going
>with about 25 other refugees from the New York show and we expect alot.  These
>shows are great for seeing what's new in boats and gagets.  

I saw an ad for this boat show in a magazine and it had a diagram
showing a 40 X 100 (ft. or yd. - can't remember) tank with 3 Laser-like
boats in it and an offer of an initial sailing lesson/test drive.  I
don't know where they're planning on getting the wind for it, but if it
works I bet the line is long for that one.

-dean
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: bonnet@prl.dec.com (Christophe Bonnet)
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Paris Research Laboratory
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:14:14 GMT

In article <timothy.726718273@tasman>, timothy@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Timothy John Gale) writes:

> 2. Although oil spills are horribly messy, and some living things
>    meet a premature demise, are they really all that bad?

 Just a simple question : Have you seen one with your own eyes ? I have
seen two, being from Brittany. One of 200,000 tons (the Amoco Cadiz),
and one of 30,000 (the Tanio). The first one was in '76, the other in
'78. Curiously, both of the ships were US owned "Liberian" ships...

 I must say that, 15 years after, the coast has begun to recover. Some
birds who had completely disappeared were back last summer. But it was
really awfull.

 But, from these two (er.. there are been five major oil spill in
Northern Brittany, but I was too young a child to see the previous ones)
disasters, we have learn our lesson : the watch of the tankers (and
others) at the west point of Brittany is now really good. There are now
three lanes : Nearer from the coast (i.e. The Island of Ouessant) sail
the ships going nortthward, except the tankeres. In the second lane, the
ships sailing southward. And in the third (which is quite far from the
ground), the tankers going northward (i.e., usually, tankers full of
crude oil coming from the middle east and going to Le Havre, Rotterdam
or whatever). Last summer, a tanker who has some apparent mechanical
problem was stopped by a French Military ship, and then driven by a big
tug to Cherbourg, and wasn't authorized to leave until good repair.

  Of course, you can't watch every tanker sailing through the Channel or
near some dangerous coast like that. Perhaps the EC should deny access
to its water to any Liberian or Panamean tanker...


	-- Plume (Paris).
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: Re: offshore week-long sail schools
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:49:04 GMT


My Usenet reader used the wrong subject heading for my
last posting (included below):

In article <2272h7@rpi.edu> floydb@rpi.edu writes:
>In article <1hsknqINNgoq@NATKINGCOLE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> bjornson-robert@cs.yale.edu (Robert Bjornson) writes:
>>
>
>stuff deleted
>
>>I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who has experience with
>>either of these courses or schools, or would recommend some other
>>course.  If there's interest, I can summarize the responses.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Rob Bjornson
>>
>>INTERNET: <bjornson@cs.yale.edu>		USMAIL: Robert Bjornson 
>>BITNET:   <bjornson@yalecs.bitnet>		Dept. Computer Science
>>USENET:   <bjornson@yale.uucp>			Box 2158 Yale Station	
>
>I would be interested in seeing responses posted to the group.
>
>Also, other than a year's worth of sailing experience and a Coast Guard
>examination, are they any additional 'captains' license requirements for
>uninspected small yachts? 
>
>barry
>
From: bocmunro@bnr.co.uk (Bruce Munro)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 11 Jan 1993 17:20:48 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe, New Southgate, London.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bnsgs179.bnr.co.uk

In article <1is3suINNiu2@calvin.NYU.EDU> roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>
>	The second thing I would say is not to use single-screw ships.  My
>understanding of the recent North Sea disaster is that the ship had only a
>single screw/engine.  Anytime you have a single point of failure, you are
>asking for trouble.  Possibly the second engine wouldn't have been
>sufficient to make headway against the wind/waves, but it probably would
>have been enough to keep the anchor(s) from dragging, or at least given them
>more time to get a tow there/attached.  Of course, if the cause of the
>engine loss was fuel contamination, a twin-screw ship might have very well
>lost both engines if they had a common fuel supply.

The ship also apparently lost virtually all power, so that winches etc
would not operate. Some Shetlanders and a couple of volunteers from the crew
were dropped back on board just before the ship went aground in a last
ditch attempt to attach a tow. However, the conditions were to fierce for
the men to haul the heavier line aboard without the aid of winches. They
were evacuated by helicopter when the ship hit the rocks.

-- 
Bruce Munro.  <B.O.C.Munro@tcom.stc.co.uk> (Note new address)
BNR Europe Ltd, Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB. 
Phone : +44 81 945 2174 or +44 81 945 4000 x2174
"There are no strangers, only friends we don't recognise" - Hank Wangford
From: kell@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dave Kell)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Atlantic City Boat Show Feb. 4-7th, 1993
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:40:33 GMT
Reply-To: kell@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dave Kell)
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd.

In article <f_92zr#@rpi.edu>, floydb@rpi.edu writes:
|> 
|> ps
|>  
|> what other boat shows are coming up. I am primarily interested
|> in the east coast and gulf coast shows.

From the January Cruising World magazine:

Jan 7 - 10: Denver Boat Show, Colorado Convention Center, Denver CO
            (Contact Exhibitor Showcase Ltd., 719-590-7717)

Jan 8 - 17: Toronto International Boat Show, Coliseum & Exhibition Place,
            Toronto, Ontario (Contact Outdoor Canada, 416-695-0311)

            [I'm planning to attend this show the evening of Jan. 11th.
             If anyone else is going then, and would like to get together,
             I'd be agreeable.]

Jan 9 - 17: New York National Boat Show, Jacob Javits Convention Center, 
            New York, NY (Contact MNNA, 212-922-1212)

Jan 15 - 24: Winter Boats Afloat, Chandler's Cove, Lake Union, Seattle, WA
             (Contact Northwest Brokers Assn, 206-323-2405)

              [The Winter Boats Afloat show is free, if I recall correctly.
               I've attended the indoor show once before, but I hear the 
               floating show is much better for looking at various keelboats.
               Anyone have any comments on the floating show?  Should I bother 
               to go down to Seattle this year?  The Kingdome indoor show is
               on at the same time:]

Jan 16, 18, 23:  Multi-media sailing shows, "Hot To Cold" and "Adventure Sailing"
                 by John Neal and Barbar [Barbara?] Marrett, Seattle Boat Show,
                 Kingdome, Seattle, WA (contact NMTA, 206-634-0911).

Jan 21 - 24: Tampa International Boat Show, Tampa Convention Center, Tampa FL
             (Contact NMMA, 813-264-0490).

Jan 23 - 31: Philadelphia Boat Show, Philadelphia Civic Center, Philadelphia, PA
             (Contact NMMA, 215-499-9910).


I wonder how many manufacturers will be represented at this year's shows?  The
last few shows I've attended have been pretty sad :(

dK
===========================================================================
Dave Kell   (604) 293-5753                 kell@mowgli.mpr.ca
MPR Teltech Ltd.                           mprgate.mpr.ca!kell@uunet.uu.net
8999 Nelson Way
Burnaby, BC, CANADA
V5A 4B5
===========================================================================
From: bwb1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BRENT W. BENSON)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: How Do GPS Receivers Keep Time?
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:19:34 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

According to various articles on GPS, locations are found by a combination of
ranging and triangulation. The receiver picks up a coded satellite signal and
compares it to an identical code it's generating  internally.  The time
difference between the code patterns is used to determine the range.  I.e.
distance = (speed of light)*(time diff).  This assumes that the receiver knows
the time extremely accurately.  For 30m distance accuracy you would need
30/3e8=1e-7 accuracy  of time.  How is time kept in the receiver to an
accuracy of one part in ten to the seventh? (and for less than $1k).
Brent
From: ccoombs@pilot.njin.net (Cliff Coombs)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: eastcoast boatshows
Keywords: NYC, Philly, Alt. City
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:08:54 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


East Coast Boat Show Reviews (my opinion)

NYC - Lots of people, lots of power boats (last yeast I think I
counted 6 sailboats > 15ft), Lots of vendors and better than catalog
prices on most things if you are prepared to buy then and there.  Good 
looking models (both boats and babes), kinda expensive when you
include parking or train & subway or taxi.  

Philly - I haven't been in a few years.  Smaller than NYC, less
crowded too.  Years ago this was a better selling show than NYC
(local dealers preferred it because it cost less and they sold just as 
much)

Atlantic City - Sail Expo, First year - Sailboats only! :-) 
A good size list of vendors, but the seminars don't really grab me.
Features a sailing pool for small boats.  $15/day $25/multi-day $4
discount for tickets purchased before Jan. 15th. I left the details at
home, but if you need more info you could email me.


-Cliff
-- 
 Cliff Coombs                        Voice (908) 527-2729  Fax (908) 355-5143 
 Campus Network Administrator                          ccoombs@pilot.njin.net
 Kean College of New Jersey                             ccoombs@luau.kean.edu
 Disclaimer: "I know noth-ink" -Schultz (Hogan's Heros)   ccoombs@njin.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jab@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Alan Barrow)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:04:23 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard NARC Atlanta

In <1992Dec28.150046.14779@progress.com> gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras) writes:

>youngqd@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Dean Youngquist) writes:

>...regarding who pays for SAR

>>There are 4 funding options here:
>>1) Charge each boater each time he is rescued.

There is an existing precedant for this: Rescue of mountain climbers.

Climbing is known to be "hazardous" at times. Poor judgement is the most
common cause of problems that generate a rescue attempt. (Poor judgement
includes: weather, equipment, training, etc)

Many international and US agencies charge for rescue attempts for
mountain climbers, arctic travellers, etc.

Knowing you may be charged for such service tends to make folks much
more aware. I try hard not to run out of gas, as I known it will
probably cost me $$$. Likewise for bad weather, etc. Why should I pay
for people who do not exercise good judgement? 

A *reasonable* fee to maintain the capability would not be a problem. 


 Alan Barrow  km4ba | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack
 jab@hpuerca.hp.com | ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched
                    | C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
 ..!gatech!kd4nc!   | All those moments will be lost in time -
         km4ba!alan | like tears in rain. Time to die.          Roy Batty
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: re: Slatting
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:53:22 GMT

In article <1is9scINN4sd@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:

stuff deleted

>   Anyhow, midwinter "slatting" turn out to be not-so-bad. 
>
>Happy new year!
>
>-John
>

I thought 'slatting' referred to the sails rattling about in light/zero winds
as the boat rocked on the waves. Between the noise and the possibility of chafing
lines this often considered a 'bad thing'...

barry

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