HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tait@uts.amdahl.com (Tait Kirkham)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Suggested trades for the Cowboys.
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:36:04 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Aug15.084043.29211@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> aa05@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ABDULMALIK A. ALHUSSEINI) writes:
>
>    Here are some suggested trades that made sense to me:


I would assume these trades make sense to you because you are a 
Cowboy fan.  

>
>    1. With the Eagels:
>        Noonan or Cassilas + (so-so player) to get CB Eric Allen.
>        This deal could work because the Eagles want to fill J Brown's
>        position. You know why Allen is good.


The Eagles would never trade an all pro corner for this.  Run stopping
defensive linemen are not too tough to find but a great corner is a
very hot commodity.

>
>    2. With the Chargers:
>        Again Noonan or Cassilas + (so-so) to get OLB/MLB J Seau.
>        It may work because the Chargers could not stop the run and may switch
>        to a 4-3 scheme. Seau had 7 sacks 129 tackles and made to the Probowl
>        last year. He is also young, 23 to 24 years.

You just explained why the chargers wouldn't do this.


>
>    4. With the Steelers:
>        J Jones, Jeffcoat, or Tolbert + (so-so player/players) to get CB Rod
>        Woodson. This one may work because Pittsbugh's DL stinks. The problem
>        is this is another 3-4 club. If they want Cassillas or Noonan +
>        (so-so), I wouldn't mind. The last Pro Bowl was Woodson's third in a
>        row.

Are you kidding?  You have to give something to get something.  In order to 
get Woodson you would have to throw in a lot more than this.


I guess my point here is no team (well almost no team) is going to 
give up a star for another teams excess.  If you had woodson or allen
would you trade them for what you were offering?  Even if the team
has a need at DL, the players you are nameing are not nearly the 
caliber of the players you want in return.

Tait
-- 
Tait Kirkham            Amdahl Corporation        tait@uts.amdahl.com
                        PO box 3470 m/s 340       {sun,uunet}!amdahl!tait
                        Sunnyvale Ca. 94088       (408) 746 - 8269
From: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Bob Marshall)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: 49er tidbits
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:22:41 GMT
Reply-To: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California

In article <1992Aug11.181453.21745@enterprise.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com>, marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Bob Marshall) writes:
>Defensive end Larry Roberts has signed a one-year contract and reported
>to Rocklin on Monday. If I remember correctly that leaves only Rice
>unsigned (Jamie Williams signed a few days ago). Am I forgetting someone?

I'll answer my own question. Yes, I did forget someone; linebacker Keith
DeLong has not signed, either.

=============================================================================
Bob Marshall                     \\     "It ain't age
Lockheed Missiles & Space Co.     \\     That makes me look this way
Sunnyvale, CA                      \\    It ain't the years, boys,
marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com\\   It's the miles"
"I tell the truth 'cept when I lie"  \\     - Chris LeDoux
=============================================================================
From: gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: No Draft Next Year?!
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:36:30 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA
Originator: gharris@jade.tufts.edu

In article <1992Aug18.195859.13350@macc.wisc.edu> heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.184157.2531@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes...
>
>>I am afraid that you don't know what you're talking about.  It has
>>been stated again ang again, by people more versed in sports labor law
>>than you and me, that without a new CBA, next year's draft will be
>>very easily challenged in court.
>
>Yeah, that's without a new collective bargaining agreement.  The thing 
>is that there almost certainly will be a new CBA next year.  And 
>players coming out of college can be forced to follow it.  If you want 
>to work on the line at GM you *have* to join the UAW and you *have* to 
>follow their rules.
>
>PS. I thought the players union recertified shortly after the 
>decertification.  Am I wrong?  They had to have some entity 
>representing them to sign the current CBA.

	You're assuming that there is a current CBA.  There isn't.  I believe 
the portion of the old CBA which detailed the workings of the draft was given
a longer lifetime than the body of the agreement.  It is that final clause 
which will expire this year.

>John G. Heim                                 Email:  heim@macc.wisc.edu
--
"If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they taste more like
prunes than rhubarb does."              -Groucho Marx 

gharris@jade.tufts.edu          George Harris, Tufts Univ. Dept. of Mathematics
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Re: Terminology question
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:33:00 GMT

In article <92232.134432343VTQ2@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>, 343VTQ2@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (William Grant) writes...
>>In the original "T" formation, and I presume the single wing and other
>>precursors, it was logically done as you descibe above: quarter, half, full.
>>Of course, no one (PRO) uses 3 running backs anymore.  One half
>>back is usually a flanker and the other is often an H-back, leaving only
>>one pure running back.
>>
>    This brings an interesting question.  WHY don't some pro team use a
>wishbone type of offense.  Teams like San Fran or Philadelphia would be
>perfect for this type of offense.  A good scrambling quarterback,  and
>3 running backs.  You wouldn't even need 3 huge name backs,  just 3
>'little better than average' (ambigious as hell I know!) backs.  It could
>work.  It does for some college teams.  Any other opinions??

It might work but only with a very powerful defense. The problem with the 
wishbone offence is the ability to come from behind. However, if a team had 
a strong defence which could get the ball to the offence, then I don't see any 
great reason why it couldn't work.

BTW, I always thought that the term flanker was used for the posession wide 
receiver, unlike split end who is the speed guy.

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Bengals Fanatic"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: john@makesys.com (John Turman)
Subject: Re: A good laugh for Fin fans
Organization: Make Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:38:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.171139.2239@cs.ucf.edu> tech@cs.ucf.edu (Tony Travaglini) writes:
>Guess who is injured and sitting on the bench? Guess which RB can't
>play much yet? 
>
>Sammie Smith!!! I can hardly stand it! What a hoot. How do you like
>him Denver?
>
>Tony (go new england) Travaglini
>tech@cs.ucf.edu

I wouldn't start the laughter track just yet Tony, looks like Mark Higgs and
Bobby Humphrey both got dinged in the Denver game this weekend. Don't know
the extent of the injuries yet, I just caught a glimpse on Sports Center.
Actually Mark Higgs didn't get his against Denver it was Dallas, hemmoraged
quadriceps is what I heard. Didn't hear the nature of Bobby's ding though. It
supposedly happened in the first half. Anybody see the game? I had to go to a
stupid family reunion with my in-laws and missed it all :~( ugh! And of
course I forgot to program the VCR before we left, what a great weekend, NOT!
I'm hoping this is not a scalpel type injury, how I hate it when that happens.

See ya.

John T.
-- 
My opinions only, if you don't like `em don't read `em. 
Hurricanes and Dolphins, my favorite weather phenomena and aquatic mammals, oh
and also my favorite football teams. And remember to always genuflect in Shula's
presence and to kiss his Super Bowl Rings. .........John "Dolphinatic" Turman
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: gd@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (gregory.durant)
Subject: Re: EAGLES News
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:10:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.174817.24645@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> jmd@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (joseph.m.dakes) writes:
>Jim McMahon is signed and in camp.  Second-year QB Brad Goebel
>was traded to Cleveland for future considerations.  That leaves
>Jeff Kemp and David Archer to fight for the third string job.
>Rookie Casey Weldon will be the Eagles #4 QB this year.

IMHO, the Birds should stop wasting valuable regular season preparation
by allowing Kemp to take snaps. They should have gotten rid of Kemp two
weeks ago and started allowing Archer or Weldon to get some plays in
during the preseason games.

>The Birds also signed LB Byron Evans, WR Calvin Williams, and
>PK Roger Ruzek.  That leaves TE Keith Jackson as the only
>unsigned offensive starter.  On defense, the Eagles are still
>without the services of All-Pro CB Eric Allen, and S Andre
>Waters.
>
>Waters has been outspoken about his contract dispute with the
>Eagles and has asked to be traded.  The rumor is that Dallas
>is very interested in Waters.  Expect a Waters for Noonan deal
>very shortly.

Waters signed a two year deal late yesterday worth $1.5 million not
including incentives. I guess they could still trade him, but I hope
not. The remaining two guys are key, if they don't get them in camp
soon it could really be detrimental to the whole season. I honestly
don't expect too much from Keith Jackson. I feel he will have a
similiar year to last year, which was subpar for him.

Greg Durant
AT&T-BL FSAT-E
Whippany, NJ
floyd!gmd
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: thaddeus@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Thaddeus R. Crews)
Subject: Re: Redskins impressions (was Re: Niners tip Deadskins!)
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:12:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.145307.23167@linus.mitre.org> lewis@aera8700.mitre.org (Keith Lewis) writes:
>In article <ELM.92Aug17001848@terrorism.berkeley.edu>, elm@cs.berkeley.edu (ethan miller) writes:
>>Question to those in the DC area: what's going on with the Skins at
>>WR?  Clark and Monk are obviously on the team.  Sanders is either on
>>the team or trade bait.  Desmond Howard will make the team when he
>>ends his holdout.  Where does that leave Stephen Hobbs, who looked
>>good?
>
>Desmond Howard?  I think the practice date for starting the regular season
>opener in Dallas has passed.  A rookie with an attitude and no practice is
>not going to instantly get a slot on a SB champion team, even if he did win
>the Heisman.  He'll probably get traded for a second-round draft pick or
>something.

A second round pick????  He can draw a LOT more than that if he is traded.
For example, if traded to KC Chiefs, Howard would be worth MLB Percy Snow,
and CB Albert Lewis at least (probably also a mid-round pick).

(* ... second round pick!?  Sheesh... *)
>
>>Any further news on ending Lachey's holdout?  The Skins could sure use
>>him!
>
>Lachey and Green will be missed.  Either one might come back or simply
>retire.  They're really too old to trade.
>

Too old to trade???? Simply retire????  Both these guys are going to make
over $1.2 million a year for the next 3 years AT LEAST!!!!  They most
certainly will not retire.  And I bet there is at least one team out there
that would find a roster spot for either player.  (Actually, all 28 teams
would start both Lachey and Green).

>Keith Lewis             klewis@mitre.org          "Mr. Cheap"
>I don't dance to music; music dances to me.  Email me for my PGP key.
>The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
                   ^^^^^
Hey Keith,
Try giving your boss a lobotomy.  Maybe then he will think (NOT) like you!

Thad Crews
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Some people have a way with words, and some people, ... oh ... *not* have
a way, I suppose..."  -- Steve Martin
From: langrock@rice.edu (David Jeffrey Langrock)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Worst Rules in NFL
Date: 14 Aug 1992 20:38:05 GMT
Reply-To: langrock@rice.edu (David Jeffrey Langrock)
Organization: Rice University
Originator: langrock@letaba.cs.rice.edu


In article <0eWkMcG00WDK08rngU@andrew.cmu.edu>, Vernon H Harmon <vh00+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> >No 2 point conversion.
|> 
|> oh, yeah, i forgot about that one. it would be nice and make the games
|> more interesting, but that we don't have it doesn't make me all that
|> upset...
|> 
|> now if you want to make 2-pt conversions *really* controversial
|> implement them like this: the line-of-scrimmage for the conversion is
|> the same as wherever the TD was scored from. If it was run back or off
|> of a turnover, then it defaults to the 15-yd line or wherever the PAT is
|> kicked from..... |> --Vernon.

So, if a team is down by eight points and their running back breaks into the
open for what would normally be a 15+ yard touchdown, he should run out of bounds
at the 1 inch line, so he can score a one-inch touchdown?   Yechhh!

I like the standard 2-pt conversion, and to hell with overtime, let's have
more ties!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	)
Subject: Re: holdouts
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Date: 18 AUG 92 11:40:46    

In article <20705@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal) writes...

>Obviously all fans hate holdouts when it involves their team.
> 
>My question is, why don't the owners just refuse to give in?  As long
>as they have the draft (illegal as it is, most likely), a player can't
>go anywhere else for a year.  So if the owners just say, ok, you sign
>or forget it, the player would sign, more often than not.  Otherwise
>the player is sacrificing 1 million or more (1st rounders) for the year,
>and will certainly be drafted lower the next year.  So they will lose
>even more money because of the contract offer in a lower draft slot.
>Given the few years the average player plays, they can't afford to sit
>out and forfeit one year.

Until recently, the fans and the press considered holdouts 
the owner's fault.  There was always a great deal of pressure on 
the owners to sign a player at any cost.

Some owners stick it to the players every chance they get.  Certainly 
every owner wants to make as much money as possible.  But some 
owners really just want to see a player compensated fairly.  And some 
players have an unrealistic view of their value to the team.  Even the 
Packers have holdouts and there's zero profit motive there.

The Packers can't afford to throw money around like there's no limit.  
They just want to pay people what they're worth and keep them 
motivated.  They'll pay better when the team does better.  Even so, 
the Packers GM has to keep talking to the press saying "We're not 
being cheap.  These people are asking for too much money."  If Packers 
management has a PR problem even though they don't get paid more if 
the Packers make more profit, the rest of the owners must have a 
*real* problem.

John G. Heim                                 Email:  heim@macc.wisc.edu

"There are three things that are important to every man in this room.  
 His religion, his family, and the Green Bay Packers, in that order"
                   - Vince Lombardi as quoted by Jerry Kramer
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: ded@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (nod sivad)
Subject: Re: Redskins impressions (was Re: Niners tip Deadskins!)
Reply-To: ded@aplcen (nod sivad)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 13:40:18 GMT

>Why do the Redskins have to keep Riggs?  The
>announcers seemed to think that Byner, Ervins, and Riggs all had spots
>on the team.  The first two certainly do.  I think that they'll end up
>keeping Settle and Mitchell and one other person, possibly Riggs or
>#39 (I forget his name).

Close.  Riggs, Settle, and Green (#39) are presumed to be fighting for
one spot.  Riggs hasn't been mentioned much lately; I get the impression
he's on his way out.  Both Settle and Green have looked good.  An article
in today's Washington Post pointed out that Green is 5 years younger,
but Settle (not an old man) has proven he can run in the NFL.  
Personally, I expect to see either a trade or one of them placed on
injured reserve.  These aren't waiver guys.

>Question to those in the DC area: what's going on with the Skins at
>WR?  Clark and Monk are obviously on the team.  Sanders is either on
>the team or trade bait.  Desmond Howard will make the team when he
>ends his holdout.  Where does that leave Stephen Hobbs, who looked
>good?

Stephen Hobbs is a standout special teams player.  The WR in trouble
is Joe Howard Johnson.

					me
From: v067ftek@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (TIMOTHY M. MCCARTHY)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: pre-FF draft questions
Date: 20 Aug 92 06:00:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug19.195418.7671@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, msb2f@csissun12.ee.Virginia.EDU (Michael Scott Brown) writes...
>Need some pre-Fantasy Football Draft advice:
> 
> 
>	1)  Who looks like the starting RB in Atlanta, Tony Smith or Steve 		  
>Broussard?
> 
>	2)  Who will replace Drew Hill inside for the Oilers, Leonard Harris?
> 
>	3)  Will Drew Hill start for the Falcons?
> 
>	4)  If so, will they move Pritchard outside?
> 
>	5)  How much PT will Robert Clark get behind Clayton/Duper?
> 
>	6)  Has Timm Rosenbach been running as much as he did pre-injury?
> 
>	7)  If Herschel is a bust, who will replace him, Joseph? Tony Brooks?
>	    Sherman?
> 
>	8)  Who looks like the better pick, Butts or Bernstine?
> 
>	9)  How have Word and Williams looked with Okoye holding out?
> 
>	10) Who will run the ball for the Browns, Brooks? Vardell? Mack?
> 
>	11) How about the Bengals, Green? Fenner?
> 
>	12) Will J.L. Williams be used as much under Flores, especially in the 
>passing game?
> 
>Answers to any or all questions would be appreciated.  You can either
>reply to me directly or on the net.
> 
>Mike Brown
>msb2f@virginia.edu
> 
>>I could use same info so if you could e-mail me or post to this group
><it would be appreciated.
Thanx in advance, Tim Mac


>Sorry if this appears twice, I'm still trying to figure this thing out
>on the fly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
From: lrusk@mozart.amd.com (Lee Rusk)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Dallas Trades
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:33:50 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1992Aug21.000245.5539@aero.org> mas@aero.org (Marcus A.Shaw) writes:
>
>Terrell Buckley for Wright, Noonan, Lewis (DB), and Holt (DB) and a #2 pick.
>
>It is generally thought that Lewis is worth more than the #7 that the Cowboys gave for 
>him last year.  Holt is worth a mid-round pick according to the Bucs trade wire and 

This is another example of a cowboy fan suggesting mediocre/poor player(s)
for a quality player.

If you want to make this trade why not Michael Irvin for Buckley.

This should benifit both teams:

Cowboys - Irvin is unsigned, they have depth at WR and lack quality
          players at DB.

Packers - Buckley is unsigned and doesn't appear in a hurry to do so.
          The combo of Sharpe/Irvin would come close to Rice/Taylor
          as the best in the game.  Now if they could get a QB they
          might challenge for 3rd.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: RE: NFL stats
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:42:00 GMT

In article <20AUG92.03392793@vax.clarku.edu>, htilney@vax.clarku.edu                      writes...
> 
>In a previous article, kevinlu@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Kevin Lu) wrote:
>> 
>>Can anyone tell me if a players career stats. are just for the regular
>>season, or do they include how they went in the pre-season as well??
>> 
>>  +----------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
>>  |  Kevin Lu                              | Monash University             |
>>  |  Email: kevinlu@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au  | Clayton, Victoria             |
>>  |                                        | Australia                     |
>> 
>I seriously doubt that pre-season stats are included, but post-season is
>another matter entirely. I would guess that a player's career stats 
>include post-season play.

No, post-season stats are not incorporated into a player's career stats. They 
are kept but kept as playoff stats and Super Bowl stats. Also, along the same 
line, players like Lance Alworth who played in the AFL had their AFL stats 
counted when the AFL merged with the NFL. However, stats for Herschel Walker 
when he played in the USFL or Larry Csonka when he played in the WFL did not 
have the stats from those leagues included in their career stats.

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Bengals Fanatic"
From: ded@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (nod sivad)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: BUCKLEY SIGNS!!!
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:11:32 GMT
Reply-To: ded@aplcen (nod sivad)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University

>He could have $2.3 million right now.  Still, I bet he signs right 
>before the season starts (or shortly after) in which case all he's 
>done is stick the Braves for $10-20K and they knew the risk they were 
>taking.

I'm just guessing, but wouldn't Buckley be required to
repay the signing bonus if he doesn't live up to the contract?
I find it hard to believe the Braves would give him $10-20K without
any strings attached.

				me, an innocent
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro