HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: Feynmann's legacy...
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Distribution: sci
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:44:22 GMT

In article <Bxn4F1.LBz.1@cs.cmu.edu> roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts) writes:

>The impression I got from reading the speeches is that they reflect his
>opinions going into the job - it's not a matter of "read my lips" and a
>promise not to change. 

There is also some potential good news in this area. John Pike (likely
next director of the Space Council) was recently briefed on SSTO. His
reaction was a lot more positive than he has been in the past.

>I would assume that at least some of the people who strongly favor these
>programs are writing letters to Clinton/Gore '92, rather than just sitting
>around moaning. :-) 

I hope so too. The address is:

President Elect Bill Clinton
PO Box 615
Little Rock AR 72203

  Allen

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves        |
|  aws@iti.org     |  nothing undone"                                       |
+----------------------158 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
From: det@phlan.sw.stratus.com (David Toland)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGY For Spacecraft
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:15:25 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: phlan.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Nov17.164440.2394@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
        [vague generalities removed]
        [folklore removed]
        [political dogma removed]
>                                   Robert E. McElwaine
>                                   B.S., Physics, UW-EC

(Large yaaaawwwwwnnnnnn)

Areas where the verdict is not yet in (e.g. cold fusion) are still being
investigated.  Funding comes from organizations that see sufficient
potential.

The Laws of Thermodynamics have stood the test of time well, and have
revealed **MANY** misconceptions, errors, and outright frauds, particularly
in free energy or perpetual motion schemes.

Energy/matter can neither be created nor destroyed.  If you postulate
tapping some latent energy source, be prepared to quantize to support
your claims, and to explain the impact of the reduction of that source
as well (or how it gets renewed).

Why must you keep posting this, when obviously no one is willing to
leap upon your (rather shaky) bandwagon?

Flame me if you want, I can delete mail in a keystroke.


-- 
det@phlan.sw.stratus.com   |  "Laddie, you'll be needin' something to wash
                           |  that doon with."
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: wizard@r-node.gts.org (Miroslaw Kuc)
Subject: Re: Feynmann's legacy...
Organization: R-node Public Access UNIX Information System (416-249-5366)
Distribution: sci
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 06:16:12 GMT

In article <Bxos7A.IyH@access.digex.com> mheney@access.digex.com (Michael K. Heney) writes:
>HL-20 and consideration of a "skunk-works" style program for developing
>a successor to the shuttle.
>-- 
>Mike Heney                |   Senior Systems Analyst and     |  Reach for the
>mheney@access.digex.com   |  Space Activist / Entrepreneur   |  Stars, eh?
>Kensington, MD (near DC)  |     * Will Work for Money *      |

What does "skunk-works" mean? 

Miroslaw Kuc
-- 
wizard@r-node.pci.on.ca 
wizard@r-node.gts.org
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts)
Subject: Re: Space suit research?
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology formerly National Bureau of Standards
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: sci
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 04:04:59 GMT


-From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
-Subject: Re: Space suit research?
-Date: 20 Nov 92 16:51:24 GMT
-Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA

-In <Bxs6ou.2F4.1@cs.cmu.edu> roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts) writes:
->-or are there long term bio effects????
->There *may* be. For example, one of the Apollo astronauts, after a busy day
->on the moon, had bleeding under his fingernails - thought to be mainly a
->result of the low pressure. Little indications like that made NASA uneasy. :-)

-I can't see any reason why low pressure would cause bleeding under the nails
-as long as the pressure inside the body was equally low.  Sounds like NASA
-was worried about a pressure leak in the gloves, causing the pressure there
-to be lower than the pressure in the rest of the suit.  That could, quite
-likely, cause bleeding, with the pressure inside the body pushing a small
-amount of blood through the skin under the nails (which is quite thin).  

Clearly, in non-toxic atmospheres of 1 Atm pressure or less, the main 
physiological consideration is the partial pressure of oxygen. Here are
some *speculations* on ways in which the absence of gases other than
oxygen might make a difference:

 # The internal body fluid differential pressures (and the range in blood 
   pressure with the pulse) are a much larger fraction of the pressure of
   a 3 psi O2 atmosphere. (I'm not sure of any specific mechanism by which
   that would make a difference, but I don't think we can casually dismiss
   it as "obvious" that this wouldn't be a potential problem.)

 # Given the vapor pressure of the body fluids, I would think the rate of
   drying could be significantly increased. (Didn't somebody post that the
   Apollo astronauts had problems in this respect?)

 # Since the blood interacts much more strongly with oxygen and CO2 than 
   with nitrogen, I would expect the air flow mechanisms within the lungs
   to be noticeably different.

As I said, these are speculations. While oxygen content is the main
concern, there *are* differences in a low-pressure, high-oxygen environment.
One or more of these differences could produce effects that are subtle, but
significant over the long run.

Evidently, NASA isn't sure either. :-)

John Roberts
roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov
From: wes@ian.stx.com (John S.)
Subject: Re: Obscure Help  Needed
Organization: STX, Lanham Maryland
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:29:30 GMT

In article <1ej4mtINN7i0@nuala.hal.COM> juan@nuala.hal.COM (John Thompson Reynolds) writes:
>
>Has anybody out there seen any slide rules for sale?  The closest
>thing I've been able to find is a simple circular slide rule included in a 
>"basic navigation kit".
>
>|> In article <1992Nov11.172831.14882@julian.uwo.ca> jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>|> 	   I still find it hard to believe that I could so completely
>|>    forget a skill I used every day not so  long ago. It's also hard to
>|>    believe no book store seems to stock books on the subject anymore.
>|>    Are there no slide-rule makers left?
>|> --

I'm not sure which part of the above was posted by who, but I may have
one for sale. When I first started studying engineering a few years
back, my father gave me one that I looked at for about 5 minutes out of
curiosity. Then I tossed it onto a shelf and forgot about it. Can't
imagine why anyone would want to go through the trouble of learning to
use it. If I can find it, and my dad doesn't want it, (which I
seriously doubt. I'm pretty sure he's never used one), I guess it's for
sale. I'll look for it.
                                                                             \
==============================================================================>
         ______                 ____________________                         /
           /  __   _  _  _  _  /__   _  _  ___  __   _  _  ___  __   __  
       ___/  /_/ _/--/ _/\_/  ___/ _/--/ _/_- _/-' _/--/ _/_- _/-<,_/__>

         wes@ian.stx.com     (John Shepherd)    Hughes STX, Lanham, MD
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: goldm@rpi.edu (Mitchell E. Gold)
Subject: Re: Obscure Help  Needed
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
	<1992Nov11.172831.14882@julian.uwo.ca>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:12:57 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.172831.14882@julian.uwo.ca> jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
	   I still find it hard to believe that I could so completely
   forget a skill I used every day not so  long ago. It's also hard to
   believe no book store seems to stock books on the subject anymore.
   Are there no slide-rule makers left?
--

My high school's physics class used to teach how to use a slide rule even
though most people would use calculators. This was stopped in 1984 or 1985
when the last slide-rule company went out of production. Too bad I didn't
take physics until 85-86.
--
Mitchell Gold, sundance@rpi.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Space suit research?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:40:18 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <BxuEEB.1ow@access.digex.com> prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes:
>cant you air cool even if the air is a little thin?  i know jet aircraf
>seem to manage wven with a crappy thin atmosphere at 100,000 ft.

You can air-cool even if the air is a little thin, but 3psi isn't a little
thin, it's a lot thin.  Nobody air-cools at 100,000ft; there's hardly any
air left at that altitude.  (Nobody much flies at 100,000ft either; half
that is a more typical ceiling, and a lot of military avionics is not
air-cooled.)

>ALSO in apollo were EVA's part of the planned mission? 

Yes, both on early flights for testing, and on the later lunar missions
for recovery of film canisters from the SM survey-equipment bay.  Not to
mention a zillion contingency procedures that required that electronics
continue to function despite EVAs or pressure loss for other reasons.
-- 
MS-DOS is the OS/360 of the 1980s.      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
              -Hal W. Hardenbergh (1985)|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary
From: roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts)
Subject: Re: SSTO viability
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology formerly National Bureau of Standards
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: sci
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:12:12 GMT


-From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
-Subject: Re: SSTO Viability (was: Shuttle replacement)
-Date: 18 Nov 92 20:08:14 GMT
-Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA

-In <1992Nov17.181045.29655@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
->>Does this program have the ability to fascinate congress and
->>Al Gore if it demonstrates what it intendend to do? 

->I hope so. We are working hard on that (again, let me know if you want
->to help). We have shown a few key people that there is support for this.

-Nothing that doesn't have "ecological disaster" in its title has
-the ability to fascinate Al Gore.  

I have read statements to this effect, written by persons whose eyes
presumably glow red in the dark (such is their political fervor), but
most people who make an effort to be objective about the matter and
who have actually studied his record would find it hard to ignore 
Senator Gore's involvement in non-environmental (especially technical) 
issues.

-However, Milton Freidman used
-to tell a story about geese and politicians.  If you watch a flock
-of geese, flying in "V" formation behind the leader, everyone once 
-in a while you will see them start to head in the wrong direction.
-The other geese, realizing something's wrong, turn and continue in
-the correct direction.  Finally the "leader" turns his head, realizes
-no one is following him, and starts to flap like mad to get in front
-of everybody else again.  Politicians operate much the same way.

At least several thousand Canadian geese live around here, so I see
great numbers of them almost every day. I don't recall seeing that
particular behavior pattern, but I'll keep an eye out for it. It's not
clear to me that the goose in front is actually leading - the V-formation
appears mainly intended to reduce the energy required for flight, *except*
for the one in front. I believe the geese trade places every now and then,
in order to let the 'leader' rest. (Much like a group of bicycle racers.)
In certain respects, geese are among the world's best flyers, so I expect
they know what they're doing.

What *I'd* like to know is why geese feel it necessary to honk frequently
as they fly along, and what perhaps 50% of them know about Canada, that
they refuse to go there even in the summer! :-)

John Roberts
roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov

Newsgroups: sci.space
From: v027197@stortek.com (George Noyes)
Subject: Re: FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGY For Spacecraft
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.  Louisville, CO
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:20:18 GMT

>In article <1992Nov17.164440.2394@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
Note: the following comments plagerized......     
>        [vague generalities removed]
>        [folklore removed]
>        [political dogma removed]
>>                                   Robert E. McElwaine
>>                                   B.S., Physics, UW-EC
>

        What has this McElwaine been smoking?  It must be pretty good! 
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Curtis Roelle)
Subject: Re: COSTAR
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Distribution: sci
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:58:23 GMT

roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts) writes:


>-From: roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Curtis Roelle)
>-Subject: Re: COSTAR
>-Date: 17 Nov 92 15:07:18 GMT
>-Organization: Johns Hopkins University

>-Has an assessment of potential risks has been prepared and reviewed?
>-What could go wrong?  Where are the primary risk areas?  e.g. failure
>-to grapple the telescope, failure to extract the module COSTAR
>-replaces, engineering uncertainties that might lead to the new optical
>-path missing the aperture opening, etc.  

[Amusing story about a sticky problem -- compressed ==> $%*& ]

>Somewhat more plausible scenario - the mirrors only partially deploy,
>blocking the original light paths, but not implementing the new light paths,
>and efforts to retract them fail. (I presume they'll try to deploy while
>HST is still attached to the Shuttle - if all else fails, a couple of burly 
>astronauts can try to yank the whole assembly out of HST.)

What if they're not burly enough?  Is there a contingency plan to retrieve
HST from orbit if all fails, or, would it be jettisoned, even if that meant
leaving it in a non-usable configuration?

Curt Roelle
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts)
Subject: Re: "Beyond 2000"
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology formerly National Bureau of Standards
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: sci
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:02:34 GMT


-From: hugh@whio.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Hugh Emberson)
-Subject: Re: SSTO Viability (was: Shuttle replacement)
-Date: 21 Nov 92 04:40:26 GMT
-Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Canterbury, New Zealand

-My mother tells me that a TV show we get here (NZ) called "Beyond
-2000" (its Austrailian, but I believe that lots of countries get it)
-had a segment on DC-{X,Y,1} a couple of weeks ago.  I missed it :-(.
-Anyway the segment was enough to get my mother excited enough to rave
-about it to me.  This leads me to believe that it could have quite an
-public appeal if it was sold to the public properly.

"Beyond 2000" is shown in the US on the Discovery Channel. It's an interesting
show, but I usually forget to watch it. :-)

John Roberts
roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov

Newsgroups: sci.space
From: orly@sal-sun132.usc.edu (Mr. Nitro Plastique)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Shuttle Landing Schedule
Date: 23 Nov 1992 12:56:37 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun132.usc.edu



Could someone please send me a Shuttle Landing Schedule? I'd like to plan a
trip to Edwards for a big group, and need dates for scheduled Edwards landings.



	Thanks in Advance,


*       * ***  *******  *********  *******  ********   *********************
 *     *   *  *       *     *     *       * *       * *                     *
  *   *    *  *             *     *       * ********  *   FIGHT             *
   * *     *  *       *     *     *       * *     *   *        ON           *
    *     ***  *******      *      *******  *      *  *          TROJANS!   *
                                                      *                     *
 *******  ********  *      *     *                    *     *  *****   ******
*       * *       * *       *   *                     *     * *       *
*       * ********  *        * *                      *     *  *****  *
*       * *     *   *         *                       *     * *     * *
 *******  *      *  *******   *                        *****   *****   ******



-- 
|Victor R. Orly               | "Try to imagine all life as you know it,      |
|aka "Mr. Nitro Plastique"    |  stopping instantaneously, and every molecule |
|Univ. of Southern California |  in your body exploding at the speed of light"|
|Internet: orly@aludra.usc.edu|    -Egon Spengler, from "Ghostbusters"        |
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: neff@iaiowa.physics.uiowa.edu (John S. Neff)
Subject: Re: Mars Simulation in Antarctica
Organization: The University of Iowa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:11:22 GMT

In article <Bxx84n.Hoz@access.digex.com> prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes:
>From: prb@access.digex.com (Pat)
>Subject: Re: Mars Simulation in Antarctica
>Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:50:46 GMT
>In article <17547@mindlink.bc.ca> Bruce_Dunn@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Dunn) writes:
>>        At one point I believe that the US was operating a small nuclear
>>reactor as a source of power and heat in one of their Antarctic bases.  Does
>>anyone know the details - this would be highly relevant to moon and or mars
>>bases (which of course would have to however have alternate methods of
>>rejecting heat).
>
>THey probably ran SNAP-7 nuclear reactors down in the polar areas.
>it was there small transportable power rac for science stations, etc....
>i seem to recall they were used in the artic as well.
>look in some historys of nuclear power to be sure.
Antarctica is now a nuclear free zone and the reactors were removed.
From: dfegan@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (Doug Egan)
Subject: Re: Saturn V for Freedom deployment
Organization: LESC
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:10:37 GMT

In <BxtoxL.7n0@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> coley@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Chris Coley) writes:

>My name is Chris Coley, and I am an undergraduate student at Purdue Univesity
>studying Aerospace Engineering.  I am currently working on a research report
>proposing the use of a Saturn V derived heavy launch vehicle, instead of the 
>Space Shuttle, for the deployment and resupply of Space Station Freedom.  I
>would like to know if there are any resources available that I could use for 
>this topic.  Any information would be greatly appreciated.  Thank You.  

	The Saturn V booster consumed extreme amounts of liquid fuel.
    (NOT practical today...)
	I am also under the impression that the design documents were
    somehow lost...  (Maybe to favor the Shuttle program.) 
 
--
 Doug Egan                                  "Old enough to know what's right-
 Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Co.       Young enough not to choose it.
 Houston, TX                                 Wise enough to win the world-
 ***** InterNet:  egan@blkbox.com  *****     Fool enough to loose it." -Rush
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: pauln@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (paul.h.nelson)
Subject: Re: ROTATION OF THE MOON
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:55:10 GMT

Since the moon is gradually receding from the earth, due to tidal effects,
can we extrapolate backwards in time and postulate how close it has been
to the earth and when?

ALso, can we pick a lower bound earth orbit, where the moon would have broken
up and fallen into the earth, and use that as an UPPER bound for the
age of the earth-moon system?
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: schlegel@cwis.unomaha.edu (Mark Schlegel)
Subject: Re: FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGY For Spacecraft
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:42:03 GMT

mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

>                            FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGY
>                       by Robert E. McElwaine, Physicist
>          
>               Ninety to a hundred years ago, everybody "knew" that a 
>          heavier-than-air machine could not possibly fly.  It would 
>          violate the "laws" of physics.   All of the "experts" and 
>          "authorities" said so. 
>          Technologies, using negative terms such as "pseudo-science" 
>          and "perpetual motion", and citing so-called "laws" which 
>          assert that "energy cannot be created or destroyed" ("1st law 
>          of thermodynamics") and "there is always a decrease in useful 
>          energy" ("2nd law of thermodynamics").  The physicists do not 
>          know how to do certain things, so they ARROGANTLY declare 

           I notice that you say "The physicists" and "they ARROGANTLY..."
           which seems to suggest that you're not a physicist
           but above when you gave your name you said that you were a 
           physicist?  Why?  I wonder.

>          Maglich has invented and partially developed an atomic FUSION 
>          reactor which he calls 'Migma', which uses NON-radioactive 
>          deuterium as a fuel [available in nearly UNLIMITED quantities 

           ^^^ in contrast to radioactive deuterium?  Is there such a thing?
           (I assure you there isn't) (alright that was a nitpick but I'm 
           having fun here)

>               In terms of economics, the market has FAILED.  Inventors 
>          do not have enough money and other resources to fully develop 
>          and mass-produce Free Energy Equipment, and the conventional 
>          energy producer$ have no desire to do so because of their 
>          VE$TED INTERE$T$.

           Now this is just ridiculous, the energy industry spends huge
           amounts of money scrubbing sulfur compounds out of their 
           exhaust products and would virtually kill to get a clean source
           of energy.  Let's assume you are right and these magic sources
           work and they have these qualities.
           
           1.  nearly limitless supply 
           2.  this supply is effectively free (in terms of cost)
           3.  non-polluting
           4.  safe to humans and the environment
           
The only vested interest the utilities have is to their past investment of
money in their power plants.  But the above advantages reduce operating costs
SO much that they would jump at it.  (imagine an electric plant that doesn't 
need to buy any coal, has virtually no cost related to safety equipment, spends
nothing on environmental technology, and still charges what it used to)==profit!


Mark Schlegel, Univ. of Nebraska at Omaha, Dept. of Physics
schlegel@unomaha.edu
From: Mike.Ditto@p0.f240.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Ditto)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: NASA Select
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:07:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/240.0 - PASI, Golden CO

Hi, all!

        I live in the Denver Metropolitan Area, and I'm a subscriber of TCI 
cable.  TCI does not carry NASA Select TV full time, or even just during 
launches.  How can we, as patrons of this huge cable TV provider, convice 
them to replace one of their plethora of unused channels or preview guide 
channels with this educational network?  If you have any suggestions, please 
let me know.

                                        Mike Ditto
                                        Sysop, People Against
                                        Stupidity and Ignorance BBS
                                        FidoNet 1:104/240  
 
--  
Mike Ditto - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Mike.Ditto@p0.f240.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: sci.space