HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: James_Hastings-Trew@telepro.UUCP (James Hastings-Trew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Distribution: world
Date: 3 Sep 92 08:10:24 CST
Organization: TelePro Technologies

In a message dated Thu  3 Sep 92  6:31, Davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (davi
wrote:

>Yes, that's true, UNREAL does require a speedy machine to run with any 
>respectability.  But now that prices on 486 machines are coming down so 
>quickly, (not to mention the fact that a lot of the big clone companies 
>don't even sell anything below a 486 anymore), we'll probably see the 486 
>become a pretty common setup.

 D> It's becomming a common response here :

 D> Amiga Advocate:
 D> "You need a 486 to do some things as fast as a stock Amiga."

 D> Real-world reply:
 D> "But, the 486 is cheaper than the Amiga!"

The problem with your "Real-World" reply is that it is false. The myth of
"cheap clones" is exactly that... a myth. The lower end of the PC market is
falling out, and smaller clone makers are dropping out of the market. The
reason why? Nobody can make any money at these rock bottom prices. Those
who are left after the fallout will realize this and raise their prices to
stay in business. 

Sure, there are cheap 486 boxes available... but you still have to put
something IN them to make them anywhere near capable of running this
"Unreal" demo that the Beemers seem to be clinging to so desperately.

Someone posted to this list that they saw a 486 clone advertised for $1200,
but when they called to find out about it they were told that it was an
upgrade kit for an existing 386 machine. They asked "You really didn't
think you were getting a 486 for $1200 did you?"

Beemers have been sorely responsible for a LOT of exaggeration on here. I
have heard claims about $25 sound boards and $50 video boards that will
out-do anything on the planet. What a load... Go out and BUY one of these
things, and then tell us all how cheap it was to put together. Then compare
the price to an A500 or A600, since by the criterion of your posting, what
you are after is a machine capable of running a "demo" program at any
decent speed.

2.3 MEGS and a top of the line machine to emulate what is done on the
bottom of the line Amiga in under 90K of tight-coding?? I nearly fell of my
chair laughing at that...

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: devasoft@cup.portal.com (David Michael Alves)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000 & HYPE!
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 92 07:41:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug6.153244.11787@kas.helios.mn.org>
  <1992Aug8.114151.3315@desire.wright.edu>
  <1992Aug8.234743.6187@newshost.unh.edu> <al158305.714008749@academ01>
  <joe.715241690@milton> <jbickers.0ebi@templar.actrix.gen.nz>

>>       Demos - demos on a PC? yes.. more Amiga-ites have bought PCs
>> in Europe and are creating demos very close to what the Amiga can do, some
>> even are better. Once the PC gets its video bus standard (local bus),

>    Geez, what a pack of blatant lies.

>*** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG.        jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
>***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***

John, (and anyone else who's interested) check out the "UNREAL" demo for 
the PC.  This is a truly great demo for the PC which looks and sounds as  
good as any Amiga demo.  

The demo is 2.3 Megs in size and requires a 386 with 600K to run.  (looks 
and sounds best on a *SoundBlaster* equipped 486 machine though.)  You can 
find UNREAL on wuarchive.wustl.edu in the pub/msdos_uploads directory.  The
name of the file is Unreal.zip.

David Alves ................ Devasoft ............. devasoft@cup.portal.com
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000 & HYPE!
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:43:58 GMT

>:>> at 800x600 (all with built-in windows acelleration for >$200)... the future
>:>>promises a 1280x1024 card that does 256 colors at that res, 1024x768 with 16
>: >> million colors - at a "reasonable price". 
>: >
>: >    The _present_ offers that for the Amiga.
>: 
>: Oh really? What Amiga card can I seamlessly run all my amiga apps on at
>: 1280x1024? What card is useable for all my apps? Oh..there isn't one?
>
>GVP EGS? Well, it does 1600*1280 in 16M colors too...

	True, but the original poster wanted one at a reasonable price.  How
   much is the GVP EGS?

							G.Greene

>
>--
>Jarkko Lindblad
>lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:02:12 GMT
Organization: TAP, NZAmigaUG

Quoted from <1992Sep2.052244.7893@usl.edu> by das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A):
> Wow, guys, any of you with a fast 386 or 486 and maybe a SoundBlaster
> REALY REALLY ought to try getting the Unreal demo from nic.funet.fi.

    For those of us who haven't managed to get it yet - could you give
    use a run-down of the effects that it uses? Things like sine
    scrolls (vertical and/or horizontal?), mirror effects, rotating
    text, etc?

> Is this the sort of thing commonly found for Amigas?

    Yes, and not so big... :)

> Dan Stephenson                                           das9674@usl.edu
--
*** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG.        jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gfm@gnu.ai.mit.edu (George Francis McBay)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Date: 29 Aug 92 05:57:52 GMT
Organization: Free Software Foundation
Originator: gfm@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu


	I came upon a graphic file that looked like a fax or a really crappy
paper scan..It included the Commodore letterhead and was in german...This
is basically what it told:

Amiga 4000 Preliminary:
 
CPU: 68040/25 mHz
 
Ram:  16 Megabytes Fast Ram/2 Megabytes Chip Ram (On Motherboard)
 
Operating System:  Workbench 3.0
 
Floppy Drive:  High Density Disk Drive
 
Hard Disk:  AT-BUS (IDE)
 
Graphic Chips:  AA Chipset
 
Other information included built in IO ports, but these seemed no different
than A2000/3000 ones (Floppy Drive, Video Slot, etc)

Fake or real?  Nothing shocking about the specs, probably real, I'd say.
And before I get blasted by people who think I may be breaking NDA

1) I'm not a developer

2) I have no idea if this is fake or real and is presented for entertainment
purposes only

3)  There's nothing on there that hasn't been posted to the net already.

	Also included a list price of 3600 DM for a particular model,
though there may be more than one (with varying Hard Disk space)
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:23071 comp.sys.amiga.misc:13427
From: Hytec@cup.portal.com (Brandon Lee Worrell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: More AmigaWorld Lies
Date: Thu,  3 Sep 92 20:32:12 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <wedYCta00j_H8IOBh4@cs.cmu.edu> <1992Sep3.232209.4485@news.iastate.edu>


>  I think Marc had a point.  Amiga dealers are getting pretty scarce.    
> 1,000 is probably about right if you consider places like Software Etc  
> which still sell Amiga software.  Some of these might have some hardware
> available.

I know for a FACT there are at least 850 dealers in the USA.  I will
contact someone else I know and see how many dealers they deal with.

Brandon Worrell
HyTec Computers
Voice:      206-456-7656
FAX:        206-456-7657
Orders Only:800-578-6504
From: jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Jake Rose)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Scheme
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:32:31 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

dsaban@cs1.uct.ac.za (D SABAN) writes:

>Is there a version of Scheme for the amiga.  If there is not, there should 
>be!  It a very good language to use to introduce the basic concepts of 
>program design to beginners.

>It also great for AI - something the multitasking computer should be able 
>happy to accomodate.

There certainly is, Dan - I use it occasionally, but it has a permanent place
on my Work: - it's XScheme by David Betz, ported by Darren Leigh, and it's
PD software.  It supports some Amiga functions, and runs fine on my 3000 under
2.04.  It also includes source in C.  Unfortunately, I couldn't tell you where
to get it, since I got it a long time ago.  It may be on wuarchive.wustl.edu,
though.

>Dan Saban

Wulf                    | "Martha, it's another one of those CS majors asking
jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu |  if cow chips are pin-compatible with 68040s..."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: IFF database of .advocacy folks
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:17:37 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <52360@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
>
> In article <1992Aug24.184027.28027@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
> >After reading and posting to c.s.a.advocacy for over a year now, I
> >am somewhat bothered by the fact that I don't have a clue as to what
> >anyone looks or sounds like.
>
> 	One way to get around this problem a little bit is to keep track of
> where people live (post from), and then meet them when you are on vacation
> (business, pleasure) in those places.  I was in California recently; and
> several weeks in advance, I wrote to Amigans in the area and tried to
> arrange a meeting.  It was fun!  Thad Floryan, David Navas, Mike Haas,
> Jonathan Cano, Rob Rosen (not a c.s.a.a. poster), and even the infamous
> Gleeep all gathered at a restaurant one night in San Francisco.  Mike
> Schwartz and Mike Smithwick had also planned to attend but couldn't make it
> at the last minute.
>
> 	The funniest part was when Rob and I arrived at the restaurant, the
> waitress said "your table is over there" and pointed vaguely in one
> direction.  Apparently, she expected us to recognize our other dinner
> companions already at the table, but of course we'd never seen them
> before!!  (We worked it out. :-)) I was instantly recognizable in my
> "BLAZEMONGER" T-shirt, of course.
>

I regret not having the T-Shirt for myself :)

> >Would anyone be interested in uploading an IFF picture of themselves and
> >possibly an IFF sound-byte?
>
> 	I'd be interested if I had any access at all to a scanner or
> digitizer.  But I don't.
>

There has to be a few Amiga people who could take photographs and scan them
in and ftp them to some site (Amiga.phyisk and others) to build up the database...

Hmmm.. pictures and speech could make a neato .sig for a certain NewsReader :)

>                                                         Dan
>
>  //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> | Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
> | University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
>  \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:42:15 GMT

In article <65025@cup.portal.com> TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:
>>I've been using a PC at work lately and have become convinced that if
>>the Amiga is to compete price-wise, it needs to be unbundled.
>
>That makes sense, but why bundle it with the IDE then? If I have to
>pay for the SCSI controller, don't make me pay for an IDE controller
>I have no interest in!

I agree.  Although the Amiga all-in-one approach is okay, I'd like to see
a machine with a CPU slot, AA chipset, 4-8 Zorro III slots, and 4-8 AT slots.
Leave out the HD controller, the flicker-fixer, and use standard SIMMs for
both Chip and Fast RAM.  I don't know what the AA chipset allows as far as
the amount of Chip RAM, but a couple of SIMMs for it and 4-8 for the Fast RAM
should be enough.  Users could choose either cheap Zorro II boards or go for
fancier Zorro III boards for things like hard drives.

>>I'll play the Devil's Advocate and defend C='s choice on using IDE instead
>>of SCSI.
>
>Next thing you know, you'll be telling me Tom Arnold is funny, and he
>married Rosanne for love, not her money.

No, he married Rosanne for her awsome body and mind.  :-)

>>What if you need some sort of drive array or an intelligent
>>disk controller with a cache?  You'll end up buying a controller because
>>the stock one simply won't do in that case.
>
>Not that they're likely to be available for the Amiga, ever.

Given C='s apparent happiness with the Amiga as a games machine at worst
and a small-time niche computer at best, you are probably correct.

>>It's really funny that everyone is getting worked up on a machine that is
>>still vaporware.
>
>This is *advocacy*! You pretend to be worked up. Personally, I haven't
>a clue about any new machines, but I'm excited by the possibility.

Pretend?!?!  I am worked up!  :-)

>>The machines specs have probably been decided upon for
>>quite some time now and nothing we say or do will change it.
>
>Not true. CBM doesn't make a move without consulting me first.

Then why did you allow them to put IDE in the new machines?  :-)

>>machines do ship with IDE only, will many simply turn their noses up and
>>walk away?
>
>No, I'm saving my $$$ right now to buy one.

Me too.  I tried to open a savings account under the name "A4000", but
the bank worker wouldn't let me.  :-(

>>The only thing that is more ridiculous is the persons who
>>keep threatening to sell their Amigas if C= does not provide them with
>>an upgrade to the AA chipset.
>
>You mean besides people who think Rosanne is funny?

Hey, watch it!  Rosanne and family are representing the modern American
family, and we all know how important the family and family values are.
Rosanne's family serves as the perfect example of what all Americans 
hope to one day be a part of.  :-)

>TomK@cup.portal.com
>Tom Krotchko

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

	


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:32:08 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

James_Hastings-Trew@telepro.UUCP (James Hastings-Trew) writes:
>
>Sure, there are cheap 486 boxes available... but you still have to put
>something IN them to make them anywhere near capable of running this
>"Unreal" demo that the Beemers seem to be clinging to so desperately.
>

Bullshit.  "Unreal" requires a decent 386 and a SoundBlaster.  Such a system
can be had for $1K, complete with monitor and hard drive.

>
>2.3 MEGS and a top of the line machine to emulate what is done on the
>bottom of the line Amiga in under 90K of tight-coding?? I nearly fell of my
>chair laughing at that...
>

Have you seen "Unreal"?  How do you know how much space it would take on
an Amiga?  Where the hell did you get that "90K" figure?  Most of that data
is digitized music, and no matter how tight you code, it won't get any
smaller.  Besides, "Unreal" had to be created quickly, in time for the
Assembly '92 affair; who says they couldn't make it smaller if they had more
time?
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine
Distribution: world
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:43:32 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <Chris_Millar.04bk@lppl.mi.org> Chris_Millar@lppl.mi.org (Chris Millar) writes:
>> music dealers......they most DEFINATELY not going to carry an Atari
>product.
>
>WAKE UP, BONEHEAD!  A LOT of music dealers carry ST's and TT's.  Maybe if
>you knew something about the music industry, you would know that.  Jesus,
>MY local music delaer carries Atari's for crying out loud.......as do
>several national chains and some "exclusive" shops that cater to
>professionals......

But they don't advertise it.  When Joe Schmoe decides to buy a computer,
he doesn't automatically equate guitars, pianos, and computers.


--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 01:20:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.171531.827@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung) writes:
>WPK@cup.portal.com (Kenneth Pak-kin Wong) writes:
>
>>>Amiga 4000 Preliminary:
>>>
>>>Hard Disk:  AT-BUS (IDE)
>>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>>Not SCSI??? I would be surprised, and disappointed!
>
>As someone has already pointed out--this might be a smart move on
>C='s part.  A4000 owners can then go out and buy those large and inexpensive
>IBM harddrives.

   Yes, but they also will not be able to use anybody's (not even 
Commodore's) SCSI tape bacup system, or SCSI CD-ROM drive.  Will there be an
IDE connector on the outside of the case?  Doubtful, as IDE cannot handle
more than two devices in any way, and even supporting the second device 
would be kludgy.  

   The A4000 will probably come with an expensive CPU (68040), a new and
expensive chipset, expensive high-speed memory, etc.  If you were to do a
poll of buyers of such an expensive system, how many of them would be willing
to trade flexibility to save $50?  Even if 40% would be willing to make the
trade (very doubtful that so many would), does it make any sense at all to
subject the other 60% of potential buyers to having to pay $200 - $300 for
a SCSI or SCSI II board just to have the flexibility that Commodore decided
to put into the A3000 but not into the A4000?  

   IDE might have made sense in a hypothetical low-end system with a 16Mhz
68020, no FPU, a minimum of RAM, and a smallish HD; but it makes absolutely
no sense whatsoever in a high-end system with a 68040 and expensive memory.

>I am sure CSA, GVP, etc. will probably come out with some sort of 
>accelerators for the A4000--and they probably will come with a SCSI-II 
>adaptor... just my opinion.

   They probably will, but it will be an extra-cost item no matter how you
cut it.  An extra-cost item that is standard hardware in all current
Macintoshes and in the Atari Falcon.  

>                                            ____________________________
> __________________________________________/ Undergraduate, Class of 94 \___ 
>/____________________________________________________________\_____/________\
>|  Kelvin    /   Internet: Kelvin.Leung@Dartmouth.edu       ({o   o})       |
>|   Leung   /       or     abs0@Coos.Dartmouth.edu        <  #  ^  #  >     | 
>|__________/_______________________________________________(vvvvvvvvv)______|
>| "Unless someone like you cares a whole |  Do you see a doll? a beast?     |
>|  awful lot, nothing is going to get    |                                  |
>|  better.  It's not."                   |  There are always more than one  |
>|               -- Dr. Seuss (The Lorax) |  side to any story...            |
> \______________________________________/ \________________________________/ 

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
From: dfisk@level10.UUCP (David Fisk)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: more on WOC
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:23:32 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dave's Amiga
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <1992Aug30.012225.14174@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
> In article <BtrDAs.FuB@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> mike@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Smithwick) writes:
> >["They're in deep dodo"]
> >
> >FYI, World of Commodore show has taken out 3rd to half page ads in
> >both Computer Currents and MicroTimes.
> 
>    Why not full-page ads? 
> 
#ifdef MUCHO_BIG_SARCASAM_MODE

  That does it. I think that I'm finally giving up on Commodore now. How
  could they do that. I mean, why didn't they buy out the entire issue.
  On top of that, I looked in today's Boston Sunday Globe and I didn't see
  any ads for the Pasadena show, how could they ignore such a bug market?

#else  
 
  Give me a break!

#endif

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A thousand points of light...Some of them are still burning" - Robin Williams

  David Fisk - dfisk%level10@merk.com          ...uunet!merk!level10!dfisk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:07:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.131652.5527@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.052244.7893@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>
>>Also, while you are there, the Chaos3d demo is pretty neat too!
>
>Didn't see that one, is it in the same style?

There is music, it is of lesser 'quality', I suppose, but it is interactive.
Neat, too.  I haven't the time yet to read the chaos3d.txt file and figure out
what keys do what.
The mouse is a good touch, though.
.


>
>>Dan Stephenson                                           das9674@usl.edu
>>" BERLIN WALL FALLS.  3 BORDER GUARDS LOSE JOBS.  CLINTON BLAMES BUSH! "
>>        -George Bush, '92 Republican nomination acceptance speech
>
>Skip Sauls
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
>
>
>
>


--
Dan Stephenson                                           das9674@usl.edu
" BERLIN WALL FALLS.  3 BORDER GUARDS LOSE JOBS.  CLINTON BLAMES BUSH! "
        -George Bush, '92 Republican nomination acceptance speech
From: jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Jake Rose)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Scheme
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:15:38 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:

>In article <dsaban.2.0@cs1.uct.ac.za> dsaban@cs1.uct.ac.za (D SABAN) writes:
>>Is there a version of Scheme for the amiga.  If there is not, there should 
>>be!  It a very good language to use to introduce the basic concepts of 
>>program design to beginners.

>	Scheme is on Fish Disk 149.  The Scheme-to-C converter (Scheme2C)
>is on Fish Disks 556-558.

>	This information is courtesy of Matt Brown's fine "FishCat"
>program.

Yes, but neither of these is very good.  If you want a good Scheme interpreter,
XScheme (0.28 is the latest version, and it's not beta, just a weird version
number) is the way to go.

> //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
>| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy