From: jb00@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSE ANTONIO BASTO)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Indonesia & E. Timor (final)
Date: 12 Dec 92 21:18:21 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Dec11.051142.24466@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au>, s8923098@macnab.mqcs
.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA) writes:
>In article <1992Dec1.161850.126188@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> jb00@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (J
OSE ANTONIO BASTO) writes:
>
>|I think the Dutch did try to invade E. Timor (as they did
>|on Flores, Sunda and W. Timor). They simply faced some very
>|independent people, that choose to keep long time allies (the
>|Portuguese).
>
>Are you saying that the Dutch with all their same military might that
>brought Portugal to defeat in the Spice Isles failed to occupy
>East Timor because of East Timorese resistance? I am afraid you are
>wrong here, my friend. The Dutch had already defeated Portugal in
>other parts of the archipelago, if they really wanted to occupy East
>Timor they could've done so very easily. They had guns and the East Timorese
>only had sticks. A more sensible explanation is that the Dutch were
>simply not interested. They were quite content to let some Portuguese
>stay in that half of the island. At the time, they were only interested
>in exploiting the produce from the Spice Isles to make huge amount of profit
>in Europe. Timor did not have anything they could exploit, the soil was not
>rich and the rainfall not good. The Dutch simply were not interested.
>

If you had read carefully, my friend, you would noted that I writhed the E.
Timorese AND their ally, the Portuguese (we had more than sticks, I can assure
you...).

You probably are not aware of the previous postings, but I will repeat:
at that time, the Portuguese had get ride of the Spanish occupation
(60 years of "integration", if you know what I mean B-),
and cleaned up the Dutch from Brasil (where you could put several Indonesia's,
and much richer than your region). Therefore, I assume taht the Dutch where not
in the best mood for just stop short of the total elimination of one of their
rivals in the world trade in a region vital for Holland just because "simply
were not interested)".

>
>|
>|Timorese desire to keep its freedom was (is) so strong that only
>|in 1912 the last E. Timorese kingdom, based on the mountains,
>|recognized the Portuguese King sovereignty.
>
>I think the above statement shows that you do not really understand
>the history of South East Asia. I think other small kingdoms in South
>East Asia never recognised the sovereignity of foreign kings; at least they
>never wholeheartedly did that. I do not know how the East Timorese recognised
>the sovereignity of Portuguese King, but if I were you I wouldn't use this
>as an example of East Timorese' desire to keep their freedom. You said that
>the Protuguese were long time allies of the East Timorese. That means that
>they (ETese) would never be forced to recognise anything, does it mean that the
y
>did it voluntarily? So much for a strong desire, other kingdoms in South
>East Asia would never do that unless the Portuguese, Dutch , British or
>French pointed guns onto their heads. The East Timorese apparently did
>this voluntarily (according to your story) and you said this is a proof
>of their strong desire for freedom? In other places, people fought till
>they died before they even considered this.
>
>
>
>
>
>--
> _________Josef Widjaja____________
>|  s8923098@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au  |
>|  Macquarie University, Australia |
>|__________________________________|
>
From all the peoples that Portugal contacted trough the world (and we did
trade/visit/colonize with people from many corners of this planet) the E.
Timorese was probably one of the most friendly we met.

As 1974 only about 1400 Portuguese were at E. Timor, and we only raised our
flag for the Sunday ceremonies. The E. Timorese lived their lives the very
same way they lived for centuries, because the Portuguese respected their
culture, their leaders and their religions.

Indonesia raises the flag everyday, and we all know what ABRI did during this
last 17 years. Go to E. Timor and ask the population who they hate more: The
former colonizers or the more recent ones...

If E. Timorese was a weaker people, and less courageous, they would never put
up such a resistance against the oppression of the giant Goliath that decide
to "take care" about E. Timor. Until Indonesia allows an independent
referendum to determine the future of the country, E. Timorese will continue
to seek the freedom of their land, unless they are exterminated as a people
(as some of your leaders defend...).

Jose' Basto, Portuguese Student


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