From: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Side thought
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:57:09 GMT
Reply-To: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems

In article VXykPB4w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org, bbs.lar@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Larry Greenfield) writes:
[A bunch of stuff deleted]
>|said something like "I don't mean to make racist statements, and that's 
>|certainly not what's intended here, bt in the end the facts speak for 
>|themselves. It could have easily been the other way around, but these are 
>|what the facts are" and showed lists of figures, facts, etc. 
>|  I bring this point up only to point out that the one thing that many 
>|times stands in the way of a utopia is that dang reality.  It would 
>|certainly be a nice Malaysia if everyone in the population were well-off 
>|and well-fed and well-educated. And *IS* it a racial statement to say 
>|that the Malaysian Chiese are better off than their counterparts?  I'm 
>|not saying that by birth (ie, race) they're better, but by society and 
>|culture, they have certainly done much better than the native non-Chinese 
>|population.  How can one say this without sounding, at least first, 
>|racist? Yet, how can one ignore this if one hopes to change the world?

That is assuming that you are using the same culturally based criteria to judge
success.  Even though being well-off, well-fed, and well-educated are important
goals in this day and age almost everywhere, not all cultures buy into the western 
notion of success.  Although I am by no means a religious scholar, I understand that the number one purpose in life for a Muslim is to honor God, and that comes first 
before all else, including personal wealth, personal well-being, and education.
As far as they are concerned, they ARE living a productive life.  They look upon 
the others, who strive for other goals as being out of balance and unsuccessful.
It doesn't mean anyone is wrong or right, it just means that you have to give them 
room to grow as they wish.

>|In order to make things better, you must first examine the way the world 
>|ACTUALY IS, not the way you'd like it to be. One of the posters mentioned 
>|the stereotype of the asian-american being the "model minority".  
>|Stereotype or not, this *IS* true a lot of times, don't kid yourself. I 
>|also know a lot of asian americans who are punks (now punks as in "bad 
>|kids" but as in "punk rockers",etc), and what you'd call "social 
>|deviants". I also know a lot of non-asians that are exteremely smart and 
>|in all the top schools, classes, etc. But as a group (a terrible thing to 
>|do, classifying people), but as a group, asian-americans have succeeded 
>|more than others in certain things.
>|  I think of it this way. I'm a violinist by trade, and Jewish.  almost 
>|*ALL* of the great violinists of the 20th century up until a few years 
>|ago were Jewish. Every single one of them. Heiftz, Rabin, Pearlman, 
>|Stern, Zukerman, etc.  Total landslide. Why?  Was being Jewish meant they 
>|were better on the violin? Certainly not (as recent non-Jewish violinists 
>|certainly prove), but typically, Jewish households emphasized music 
>|(especially among newer immigrants), where your typical "normal" American 
>|would be hanging out at the be-bop diner.  A few years ago, one of my 
>|students (father causasian, mother Japanese) mentioned that all the 
>|winners at a competition seemed to be Asian (something she seemed quite 
>|proud of).  I mentioned to her that even just 10 years ago, they all 
>|would have almost certainly been Jewish, especially the greats.  Just 
>|because you're ne race doesn't mean you have an ability over others, but 
>|the culture you have definitely influences it.  Whereas for the past few 
>|decades, the great violinists came out of Jewish homes, now there are 
>|many fine asian violinists,because the society and asian family, lilke 
>|the jewish family, stresses academics, music, etc more than the standard 
>|"been here sincne 1607" American family. Again, the last thing I want to 
>|do is stereotype (for I myself hate being stereotyped when, for instance, 
>|I mention I'm Jewish, or something else), but yet, you do have to look at 
>|the way things are in the world, and see patterns. You can't just ignore 
>|them.
>|Just a passing thought.
>|:::::Larry:::::
I can't argue with your facts, but I think that the excellence comes from the 
fact that much of the success stories come from immigrant families.  They have 
had to go through great sacrifices to come her, and they wish to be successful
in their new homeland.  It is interesting to see what the second and third 
generations have made of themselves.  I believe that the overachieving ends 
rather abruptly after the second or third generation, mainly because the 
initial immigrants have made the lives of their progenies so much more 
comfortable that the work ethic and fighting spirit is gone.

IMHO that is.


>|
>|--
>|Larry Greenfield (bbs.lar@tsoft.sf-bay.org)



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*Peter Wung				Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
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