From: asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen)
Subject: Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:27:19 GMT

smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>The question is, are *any* of these fruits good?  Not as a sum, but
>do these groups, which you consider "bad trees" produce ANY "good
>fruits"?  If so, then can they be bad trees?  I find what whole 
>approach rather simpleminded, but you've chosen to use that to
>condemn others; let's see if it has validity. 

	In the name of honesty I must admit that some are. But, would you think
	it's OK, if I would kill you first and then donate 5 cents to your
	relatives. Would they appreciate my from my generosity ? 

	This approach is in the Bible and used by Jesus himself. If you 
	find Jesus simple-minded, it tells a lot from your religion. 

>> 	I know there are honest non-JWs among worldly people. We're seeking them

>Hmmm...if they are honest, decent people, what is the need for you
>to convert them?  I would seem that their current religion is producing
>"good fruits"...

	Not necessarily good ones. I was a terrorist. 

>that claims they "disposed" of all stocks of Russell's "Studies in the
>Scriptures" in 1927, because they created a sect centered around a man,
>and promoted sectarianism? 

	The latter claim is true. 
>So they knew the Truth, but details changed..so either the Truth
>was incorrect, or their understanding of it was...and in 50 years,
>they'll look back at the present time, and say the exact same thing,
>and so on, and so on...an odd thing for a group that professes you
>have to believe in the Right Things (tm) to avoid God destroying you..
>What makes you think they are more True than they were then? 

	The proof in the Bible. Like the 'supreme power'-stuff had always
	been clear to me the way it is and the way JWs understood it 
	before 1960's seems strange to me. 

>> 	1931 is in that way significant year that then we were given that 
>> 	great name that labels us to the servants of the true God. 

>GIVEN?  Or TAKEN UPON THEMSELVES?  The easiest way to become God's
>True Prophet is to bestow the title on yourself...

	It had been available there for thousands of years. No-one else had
	'found' it before, just like the other things in the Bible. 

>Small to the extent that it would not change their chronology; it was
>less than a year...until 1975 came and went, and an explaination had
>to be found.

	They didn't say anything sure about its length, like in 1800's.  
	That time it was explained to be two years, but I don't know how
	it was explained. 


>OK. Tell me, what good fruits have you produced ? I suppose the JW
>world is the happiest nation on earth and has solved all their problems.
>If you add +100 to -10,000,000 it's still negative.

>Now that you've seen it turned around, do you still find your logic valid?

	Yes, because we know that the rest 10,000,000 is added in the 
	Paradise. And more than that. To me, personally, it has done that
	I needn't fear the police any longer. What has your church done to
	terrorists ? Told them to join the IRA ?
-- 

		Andreas - Siperian Sirri   Siberian Stint

	No ITU, love, evolution.           Tuusniemi ! Siis imein suut !