HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mludwig@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Michael Scott Ludwig)
Subject: Immigration & Population (was Re: Jumping the Good Ship California)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Reply-To: mludwig@ics.uci.edu (Michael Scott Ludwig)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Date: 5 Sep 92 12:30:15 GMT
Distribution: ca

lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
=In article <1992Sep1.032851.29612@sactoh0.sac.ca.us> kberry@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Kim A. Berry) writes:
=>
=>FAIR is actively lobbying for a three year moratorium on
=>immigration.
=>
=>I urge anyone interested in preserving the quality of life in
=>California to join one of the above organizations.
=>
=      Care to bet on what the folks here BEFORE your ancestors
=      thought of them and you?
=
=      Ya ever stop to think YOU wouldn't be here if those folks had
=      the same selfish greedy attitude you do?
=
=      This posting was a pretty good example of the "I've got mine
=      and I'm not about to share" mentality...which is what's REALLY
=      wrong with California, IMNHO.

Obviously, we think differently, because I've stopped to think what
California will be like if we let everyone in who wants to come in (billions
of people in this one state within a couple generations...).  By the way,
that figure may be exaggeration (or it may not be), but it is true that
overpopulation of a land area is and will always be a definite problem.


Those people who use Carter as an excuse | Michael Ludwig
to be against Clinton are quite stupid - |
what else can you call someone who can't | mludwig@bonnie.ics.uci.edu
figure out that Clinton and Carter       |
are not the same person?                 | UCI and I don't agree on anything.
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:14:00 GMT

rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach) writes:

>In the 10 years I've been is Los Angeles, the traffic in Hollywood
>appears to have doubled.  But DMV says for the first time in many
>years, the state of California showed a decline of drivers in the past
>year.  Wonder if that decline is weighted toward Southern California?

Heh, Rob, well let me tell you what it was like in 1970 when
I first got my license ...

Is that a decline in the total number of holders of drivers'
licenses, or the number of new applicants for licenses, or
something completely different like hours spent driving per
capita?  I did see something in the paper this morning about
fewer teens getting licenses, which apparently is related
to the high cost of insurance and instruction (which apparently
is no longer free as a part of high school).

Frank
frank@jplpost.jpl.nasa.gov
Xref: sparky ca.general:1223 la.general:645 alt.california:1742
From: helfman@aero.org (Robert S. Helfman)
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Date: 10 Sep 1992 21:08:43 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org

In article <1992Sep7.225826.16044@xyzoom.info.com> rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach) writes:
>In article <100.UUL1.3#1@vortex.COM> lauren@vortex.COM (Lauren Weinstein) writes:
>>   [Internationally,]
>>   L.A. isn't even *near* the top of the list. 
>
>I heard recently that in the US, Denver was worse than LA.
>
>>3) When you see the famous pictures of L.A. "smog," keep in mind that the
>>   basin looked very similar 200 years ago!  The Native American name
>>   for the area was something like "land of mists,"

Author Richard Dana commented in "Two Years Before the Mast", written
in the 1800's, on the pervasive haze seen at San Clemente. The colloidal
haze is, I believe, a product of the very cold off-shore waters.
From: kehres@ima.com (Tim Kehres)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: Jumping the Good Ship California
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:42:56 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: International Messaging Associates, Menlo Park, California

In article <1992Aug21.181257.11587@ads.com> ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix) writes:
> 
>  rudomet@eltamin.usc.edu (Steve Rudometkin) writes:
> 
> >I spent a month in Europe this spring, and when I came back I almost packed my
> >bags immediately to leave to ANYWHERE else.  It took about a week to get used
> >to the above mentioned horrors of LA and learn to ignore it.
> >
> >By the way, I am a lifelong resident of SoCal.  19 Years in LA, 4 years in SD,
> >2 Years in LA (so far).
:
:
>    As a native Californian, all I can say to these people is...
> 
>    SEE YA!  Can I help you pack??? Here's your coat, where's your hat?  
> 
>    There are crime, smog, taxes, traffic, etc. everywhere else too.

True, but to varying degrees.  Having recently lived both in Germany as 
well as Tokyo, I feel somewhat qualified to say that many of these things
are now (unfortunately) much worse here.

>    And I am getting tired of these people who come here from somewhere
>    else and put this state down.  If you don't like it then go back to
>    where ever you came from.

Fine, but before you go blasting everyone, you might see what it *really*
is like to live elsewhere.  As a fellow native Californian, I also was 
somewhat upset by all the California blasting.  Living on the other side
so to speak for a while can do wonders for one's perspectives however...

Best Regards,

Tim Kehres
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: Leaving California
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:39:23 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

>ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes:
>
>>If I were starting a high-tech company in California, I think I'd put it
>>somewhere away from the high housing costs, yet close.
>>But what about the culture, or lack thereof?
>>And at a high-tech company, whose got time for culture on weekdays,
>>anyway? :-)
In article <1992Sep3.203322.23650@StarConn.com>
sallyh@StarConn.com (Sally Holmes) writes:
>Sounds lovely, but you'll get mostly single people or maybe dinky
>couples. People with kids don't want to pack up and drive a couple of 
>hours (`Are we there yet, daddeee'?) for their culture.
>
>Of course, some would argue that those of us with children have chosen
>to put our cultural life on hold for a few years anyway :-) - sure feels
>like that at times!

Isn't Microsoft in Washington being sued by a former employee for
discrimination.  That discrimination being based on her wanting to have a
life outside of THE company?  AND, That it was a bias toward single people?
I think they literally told her that she had to run on the fast track.
And it was the recently ACM series on the history of the computer which showed
a rather large Microsoft development team as rather all Nerdy men?

Oh, but wait a minute, this is ca.general, not wa.general. 8^)

Remember, the only culture out here is the ability to be able to make a
right turn on a red light.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Xref: sparky ca.general:1205 la.general:629 alt.california:1728
From: mas@mipl8.jpl.nasa.gov (Marc Sarrel)
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:04:10 GMT
	<1992Sep9.034042.13682@xyzoom.info.com>
	<1992Sep9.151955.3429@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> <6ysn_4f.foucault@netcom.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

In article <6ysn_4f.foucault@netcom.com> foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye) writes:

   This is true; the AQMD says our air is the best since 1964. Emissions
   are less than half of what they were in 1969. We have had the fewest
   first stage alerts since 1971.

   Sorry if I seem like a pie-eyed optimist or a land promoter. But
   I love LA.

No problem, I agree.  But, have the standards for first stage alerts
remained constant?  Or, have we had "standards inflation"?  I remember
(may be urban legend, though) that at one time, to improve its on-time
rating, Amtrak lengthened the amount of time a train could be late
before being counted as "late".

--marc
--
Marc Sarrel			"Strange as it seems,
Jet Propulsion Laboratory	 There's been a run of crazy dreams,
mas@mipl8.jpl.nasa.gov		 And a man who can interpret could go far --
				 Could become a star."
Xref: sparky ca.general:1214 ca.politics:7578
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.general,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Immigration & Population (was Re: Jumping the Good Ship California)
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:03:42 GMT
Followup-To: ca.general
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

>In article <2AA8A857.19659@ics.uci.edu>,
mludwig@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Michael Scott Ludwig) writes:

>Obviously, we think differently, because I've stopped to think what
>California will be like if we let everyone in who wants to come in (billions
>of people in this one state within a couple generations...).  By the way,
>that figure may be exaggeration (or it may not be), but it is true that
>overpopulation of a land area is and will always be a definite problem.

But the billions upon billions of killer bees coming to California in
the next decade from South Texas will adequately counter the influx
of people.

Just call it free market ecology.
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: dhosek@linus.claremont.edu
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Organization: Harvey Mudd College
Distribution: usa
Date: 6 Sep 92 00:06:19 PDT

In article <1992Sep6.053041.15160@berlioz.nsc.com>, my@berlioz.nsc.com (Mike Yip) writes:
> Hello,
> 	I would like to know which is the city in the US has the worst
> air pollution (LA? NYC?) and which city has the worst overall pollution
> in general (land/air/water...).  

Well, personally I find Chino to be the smelliest part of
southern California.

Speaking of which, do Chino residents feel civic pride when at
the end of a Dragnet episode the criminal is sentenced to the
prison in Chino?
 
> 	How about in the global scale?  Is Mexico City the worst one 
> to be in?  Or is it L.A. or NYC?

Last I checked Mexico City is the worst. Remember, LA's air
quality has actually improved over the last 10 years or so,
largely through some of the stricter emissions controls in the
country. Mexico, on the other hand, doesn't really have emissions
controls and the DF is even better for catching smog.

-dh
Xref: sparky ca.general:1197 la.general:623
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
From: julian@bongo.UUCP (Julian Macassey)
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:18:55 GMT
Reply-To: julian@bongo.info.com (Julian Macassey)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Hole in the Wall  Hollywood California U.S.A.

In article <1992Sep6.053041.15160@berlioz.nsc.com> my@berlioz.nsc.com (Mike Yip) writes:
>Hello,
>	I would like to know which is the city in the US has the worst
>air pollution (LA? NYC?) and which city has the worst overall pollution
>in general (land/air/water...).  
>
>	How about in the global scale?  Is Mexico City the worst one 
>to be in?  Or is it L.A. or NYC?
>

	If this question was asked historically, there would be cities
like Pitsburgh, Glasgow, London up there in the top 10. Yes, 100 years
ago, the pollution in Pitsburgh was so bad that the street lights were
on in the daytime. London lest we forget was the place where the term
smog (Smoke & Fog) was coined - sorry LA. I've lived through LA smog
and Loindon smog. LA is minor compared to London.

	Today, I would say that Aisa has the cities with the worst air.
I haven't seen numbers, but contenders are: Bankok, Taipei and Manilla.
I hear Jakarta is way up there too. Then there is Milan, Turin, Prague, 
and Sidney. Seems that a few years ago the East European "Worker's 
paradises" had the worst air. 

	But the winner is probably Mexico City, for cubic miles of crud
if no other measurement.

	Now the other way to measure the air is the amount the citizens
whine about the air quality. No question, LA has the most whiners.
-- 
Julian Macassey, julian@bongo.info.com  N6ARE@K6VE.#SOCAL.CA.USA.NA
742 1/2 North Hayworth Avenue Hollywood CA 90046-7142 voice (213) 653-4495
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: Jumping the Good Ship California
Date: Sun,  6 Sep 92 00:35:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: ca
  <JET.92Sep1100404@win30.nas.nasa.gov> <65122@cup.portal.com>
  <1992Sep4.123753.1474@sactoh0.sac.ca.us>

> >Kim> 6.  Compel California businesses to hire locally before
> >Kim> recruiting out-of-state.
> >
> >Did you really mean out-of-country rather than just out-of-state?
> >Out-of-state has Constitutional problems, doesn't it?
> >
> >--Tim Smith
> 
> I don't think there are any Constitutional problems. For one
> thing I think Hawaii is already doing something like that --
> discouraging employers from hiring mainlanders who want to

Note that the original posting said "compel" rather than "discourage."
Things like you suggest (tax breaks for each California resident
the company employs) might be OK.  But compeling companies to not
recruit out-of-state would interfere with interstate commerce, would
it not?  
Newsgroups: ca.general,ba.general
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: Jumping the Good Ship California
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:06:31 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <37573@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, jlodman@cs.ucsd.edu (Michael Lodman) writes:
> In article <1992Sep1.201113.21434@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
# ##By "LA," I, as a non-resident of same, refer to the solid mass of
# ##houses, industrial parks, Burger Kings, and linear shopping malls
# ##that clog the above mentioned boundaries.  
# #
# #Why not call that the "Southland Metropolitan Area"? 
# 
# Why not "Hell on Earth"? (Most especially Pasadena :-) )
# 
# Michael Lodman	Department of Computer Science Engineering

No, no, no.  The proper new name for LA is "Entropia."
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: scotth@felix.filenet.com (Scott Hopson)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: Jumping the Good Ship California
Date: 5 Sep 92 16:56:49 GMT
Reply-To: scotth@fritz.filenet.com (Scott Hopson)
Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, CA

In article <5028@bacon.IMSI.COM> jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:
>Robert S. Helfman <helfman@aero.org> writes:
>
>	Once you've seen the flats of LA shrouded in ground fog at
>	dawn, with a disembodied downtown looking like the floating
>	city from "The Empire Strikes Back", you'd never consider
>	moving again.
>

It would be quite a sight to see LA shrouded with fog but the truth is
LA IS USUALLY SHROUDED WITH SMOG !



-- 
Scott Hopson   (scotth@filenet.com)
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: rcarter@gaudi.nas.nasa.gov (Russell L. Carter)
Subject: Re: Long Commutes (was Jumping the Good Ship California)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 18:01:22 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <2AB486C1.23223@ics.uci.edu> mludwig@ics.uci.edu (Michael Scott Ludwig) writes:

>I was thinking more along the lines of a day being 12 hours when I wrote the
>above.  Anyway, after seeing this last comment, I thought about this for a
>while.  I concluded that it could probably be done in eight hours, but only
>if one started at the right time and if all of the mass transit vehicles on
>this trip were on time.  You didn't restrict starting time, but I would not
>take this 8-hour bet because I know that the chance of this many
>busses/trains all being close enough to on time to make the close
>connections is low.  I would definitely take a 10-hour bet, though.

Certainly it's theoretically possible to do it, the element of chance
comes from the traffic, BART's reliability, Samtrans' schedule at SFO,
I'll take the bet for ten hours, though I wouldn't wish the job of on you.

>
>=>"We have not inherited the earth
>=>from our ancestors, but are
>=>borrowing it from our children."
>=>
>=> - David Brower, conservationist
>=
>=let me add to the quote: ...but are borrowing it from our children with our
>=satisfaction with the present.
>
>I got the (partial) quote from some literature that an environmental group
>mailed to me.  Interesting to see that the group didn't use the whole quote.

I, that is to say, NOT David Brower, added to the quote to make the point that 
complacency about the current situation is part of the problem.  Let me
try again: "...but are borrowing it from our children[.]" <STOP> with our
satisfaction with the present.  Yech.

Russell
From: karen@diasonx.UUCP (Karen Louie)
Newsgroups: ca.test
Subject: test
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:45:35 GMT
Reply-To: karen@diasonx.UUCP (Karen Louie)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Diasonics Inc. -- Milpitas, California


****************************************************************************
        Karen Louie, {bridge2|cygnet}!diasonx!karen, karen@diasonx
****************************************************************************
From: rwagner@.mrms.navy.mil (Robert Wagner)
Newsgroups: ca.test
Subject: test
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:36:27 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: COMNAVSURFPAC  San Diego, CA

This is a test post.
From: mark@diasonx.UUCP (Mark Quattrocchi)
Newsgroups: ca.test
Subject: test
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:41:50 GMT
Reply-To: mark@diasonx.UUCP (Mark Quattrocchi)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Diasonics Inc. -- Milpitas, California

Test


Mark Quattrocchi, {bridge2|cygnet}!diasonx!mark, mark@diasonx
From: markb@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Mark Bixby)
Subject: testing
Newsgroups: ca.test
Organization: Coast Community College District, Costa Mesa, CA
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:42:16 GMT
Distribution: ca

From news.service.uci.edu.
From: ryamaguc@aludra.usc.edu (Rie Yamaguchi)
Newsgroups: usc.test,ca.test
Subject: This is a test....
Date: 5 Sep 1992 09:34:02 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

^L

test
From: rwagner@baron.uucp (Robert Wagner DSR)
Newsgroups: ca.test
Subject: Test
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:29:48 GMT
Distribution: ca

Test of posting
-- 

--
Robert P. Wagner, Cad Manager| Stnd Disclaimer |        rwagner@
Digital Systems Research Inc.|    from the     |satsys.san.mrms.navy.mil 
Newsgroups: ca.test
From: lawrence@netcon.smc.edu (Lawrence Roney)
Subject: test 1 from smc
Organization: Santa Monica College, Santa Monica, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:42:21 GMT

This is a test

-- 
Lawrence Roney - Network Systems Technician, Department of Telecommunications
		 Santa Monica Community College District   
		 1900 Pico Blvd, Santa Monica, CA 90405  | (310) 452-9351
       Internet: lawrence@netcon.smc.edu
Newsgroups: ca.test
From: john@storcon.UUCP (John Hunley)
Subject: test
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 01:05:12 GMT
Organization: Storage Concepts, Inc.
Keywords: test

This is a test of the Lines header.  Does it work???
-- 
                            John Hunley
   Storage Concepts, Inc.                  UUCP:  uunet!storcon!john
   1622 Deere Ave.                        Voice:  (714) 852-8511
   Irvine, CA  92714                        FAX:  (714) 557-5064
From: lee@luke.rsg.hac.com (C. Lee)
Newsgroups: ca.test
Subject: Re: test
Date: 10 Sep 92 03:48:24 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Company; Culver City, CA

In article <1992Sep8.173627.15692@baron.uucp> rwagner@.mrms.navy.mil (Robert Wagner) writes:
>This is a test post.

Robert Wagner from Cal Poly Pomona?
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:12:47 GMT
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <12214@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>In article <95610@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:

>>What if a cabal of heterosexist pigs controls the major companies
>>(including the banks, which might be used to obtain small business loans)
>>in a small town. The town is small enough for everyone to know something
>>about everyone else's sexual orientations. The big cheeses decide to
>>prohibit hiring gays, or giving them loans, for that matter.

>Yes, but does this happen?

It's amazing how someone like you who argues so passionately about
legal IDEALS, suddenly turns to pragmatism when it is to your benefit.

>And why don't the homosexuals in town do what most racial minorities
>have always done when confronted with these problems: stand together? 
>In the Asian community, the tradition of the rotating credit association
>played a major role in capitalizing small businesses.

Well, exactly that IS happening nowadays. There are homosexual business
cooperatives in Boston today, at least.

>>It would be nice to have a government which would stand up for individual
>>rights over group rights for a change.

>What about my individual right to decide who to rent to?

Wasn't it you who said, "If you want personal freedom, you've got to
permit the freedoms of others" ?

>you just claimed that pedophilia (adults having sex with children)
>isn't child molestation.  Why make that distinction, if not to 
>defend pedophiles?

Pedophilia is NOT adults having sex with children. Pedophilia is
adults WANTING to have sex with children. I think that is what Jeff
Dauber meant by "I defend pedophiles." Allow people to have their
sexual orientations, just don't support expressions of these actions,
like child molestation, which have harmful impact.

Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cramer@optilink.uucp (Clayton Cramer): Message-ID: <12133@optilink.UUCP>
I realize it's difficult for a person as depraved as [Brian Kane].
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc,ba.politics
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:26:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.220427.19877@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.203633.10831@oracle.us.oracle.com> rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) writes:

>>To keep a secret from one's friends and neighbors is to invite problems.
>
>This comment is ridiculous. You do not keep any secret from your friends and
>neighbours???

I think that you are taking Richard's comments in the wrong way.

It is different to not tell your neighbor that you smoke cigarettes (for
example).  It is another to deny that you and the person you live with
are lovers.  It is a much more complex lie, making it more difficult to
maintain.  When I was closetted, I had to adapt my entire life to making
the lie seem real.  I did not have a lover (I did, I just could not do
anything with him, for fear of being found out... In addition, all of my
friends accused me of trying to steal their girlfriends); I did not express 
sexual interest in anyone even when appropriate (I thought it, but I would not
say it aloud); I was quite alone (I had no one to share my deep dark
secret with).  

To hide something which is so integral to your life is asking for trouble.


FWA