HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis)
Subject: Re: Team Motorola will Race on Clinchers in 1993
Organization: Netcom Online 
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 03:13:12 GMT

In article <3450014@hplred.HPL.HP.COM> jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>
>For one who complains about who knows best, the claim that cotton or
>nylon, or for that matter any other material, has some effect on
>tire traction should not be left to old wive's tales.  

Who's talking old wives tales?  I gave one excellent and subjective 
methodology for determining tire traction.  Your style (obfuscate and run) 
is showing.

>this stuff when I started racing and I questioned it but never found
>where it came from.  

I never knew you raced bikes Jobst.  When was that?

>As has been discussed at length in prior exchanges, no tread rubber
>can break through the boundary layer of water on a smooth surface
>
>jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com

Are you trying to say that bald tires don't lose their traction in the
wet?  Come on Jobst, or was it you who sold Bud and Bernie (Avocet) on 
that hairbrained theory in the first place?

Roger Marquis (marquis@netcom.com)


PS.  Count the number of arrows and you'll see that the below was not
attributed to you.
>> If there were clinchers made with cotton you would see some good
>> descending tires.  Most clinchers are made from nylon which, while
>> puncture resistant, is not the best casing for holding on to wet
>> roads.
>>
>>>jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
>
>I didn't write the above but for some reason you chose to append my
>sig to your response.  Please read the weekly posting for net
>protocol and desist.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Team Motorola will Race on Clinchers in 1993
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:21:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1993Jan12.172156.26683
Organization: Netcom

In article <1isio0INNrd@overload.lbl.gov> chris@carnival.lbl.gov (Chris Moll) writes:
>Apples and oranges.  I don't think anyone is contending that "tires are
>tires" offroad - big flexible knobs or the absence thereof make a hell of a
>difference to how tires function.  You can ride slicks offroad (fun) or 
>knobbies on the road (not fun) but in either case there's little doubt that
>your speed will suffer.

The point was not that different tread patterns work differently off
road, but that someone who should have known better thought that they
did.  If you read the entire post you'll notice that I was against
riding the tires in a race.  It was my sponsor who insisted that the
tires would be 'adequate'.  This is analogous to the fact that the
differences between road tires are noticed by some and not by others.


>The question is, are you likely to get your doors blown off in a road descent
>because you chose the wrong type of high quality, "slick" tire?  I doubt it.
>Will there be small but still significant differences?  Maybe.  Certainly
>my own descending ability varies considerably according to various factors.
>The most important is what I call the "chicken sh*%" factor - ie. how
>recently I've been reminded of my mortality.
>Chris Moll                       (510)486-7891

Agreed.  Noone is going to get their doors blown off.  But if 2 riders
of equal ability, same bikes, and same road use different tires, say a
19c slick Michelin at 110 psi versus a Vittoria CX at 100 psi.  There 
will be some ground to be made up by the rider with the Michelins.

Roger Marquis
From: adr5@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Alex D Rodriguez)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Team Motorola will Race on Clinchers in 1993
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:37:16 GMT
Reply-To: adr5@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Alex D Rodriguez)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1993Jan6.175456.1478@netcom.com> marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis) writes:
>
>If there were clinchers made with cotton you would see some good
>descending tires.  Most clinchers are made from nylon which, while
>puncture resistant, is not the best casing for holding on to wet
>roads.  
>

How does the casing material affect wet road traction?  I could see how tread
material and tread pattern would but I don't see why the casing would.  If
I recall correctly Vittoria makes a clincher with a cotton casing.  Haven't
heard of anyone using them though.  They are also quite expensive.
-----------------
Alex Rodriguez
Columbia University
New York City
From: ianbjor@argon.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Ian D. Bjorhovde)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: cost of racing in the USA (NE region mainly)
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:42:55 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson

In article <C0oxys.E44@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> praetzel@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel) writes:
>So what are the costs involved for racing.  A few friends of mine have had it
>with paying $100 to join a club, $110 for a liscence, then an entry fee and
>for that getting only a short (50km) race on flat terrain.  Since they figure
>that they are only going to be racing in the USA why both with a Canadian 
>ticket?

These figures must be for Canadian teams.  A USCF license is available
for $32.  Canadian racing licenses are so expensive because of the
exorbitant insurance costs for racing.  As some may recall, a few years
ago, a Canadian junior lost control of his bike during a race and went
through a plate glass window.  (He died instantly b/c his head was
lopped off).



--Ian D. Bjorhovde
  ianbjor@gas.uug.arizona.edu
  Department of Materials Science and Engineering
  The University of Arizona


--
--Ian D. Bjorhovde
  ianbjor@gas.uug.arizona.edu
  Systems Administrator
  Unix Users Group, The University of Arizona
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Team Motorola will Race on Clinchers in 1993
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:40:47 GMT

jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>Tom Kunich writes:
>> I have noted that Conti's have a _much_ stiffer ride and have
>> written this down to the shape of the tire (Conti's are
>> elliptically shaped and Michelins round.)
>I don't believe the cross section of the tire is any different from
>any other equivalent quality tire.  They are all round.  There is
>nothing in the casing that would let it inflate to any other cross
>section such as a structural belt or variable cord angle.  The side
>walls are no stiffer than the way they feel when deflated and that
>isn't much.

 Conti's have higher sidewalls and are made of natural rubber.  Doesn't
this have something to do with their ride characteristics?

>I think you will see more of such tests with Specialized using such
>a measurement to promote their tires and suspension.  It is sad that
>Bicycling is so advertising bound that they are afraid to test
>anything.  With their budget and staff they could be a leader in
>qualifying new products rather than letting the market decide at
>great customer cost.
>jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com

Yeah they're really crap.  Most of their "reviews" just list the specs on
a product or are even a minor rehash of the promotional literature sent
to them by the porduct manufacturer.  It looks like Bicycle Guide is going
in the same direction.  Their best of 92 included the Trek front and rear
suspended mountain bike (the 9000?) that they and every other magazine gave
a lousy review earlier in the year.  Pretty pathetic.  Velo-News still
seems to tell it like it is or you can try some of the alternative "home-made"
mags like Dirt Rag or Mark Chandler's Crosswords.
-Terry
-- 
-Terry
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.racing:1133 nz.rec:19
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,nz.rec
Subject: NZ '93 Mt Bike Champs
From: news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 00:01:36 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.racing
Organization: SMIS, Massey University

I intend to post reports for the races I attend, and results for all the
events in the NZ '93 National Champs as they come to hand.  They may not
come out immediately after the event -- just as soon as I get time to type
them in.

I posted the calendar earlier, but for your info, the first round is this
Saturday: the Orongorongo Classic, near Wainuiomata, at the sothern end of
the North Island.  I'll repost the calendar if sufficient requests warrant
it.

I'm competing in the Expert Open class (there is no Pro/Elite class in NZ,
and I wouldn't be in it is there was).  It will be interesting to compete
this year -- it is my last season before I qualify as a Veteran.  

The national champs are set to be a real contest this year.  Steve Gurney,
NZ's and perhaps the world's foremost multisport endurance athlete has made
no secret of his desire to win this title, which he has tried to do a few
times in the past.  Grant Tyrrell, former Champ for two consecutive years,
unbeatable in his heyday, is rumoured to be back after a year off.  Jon
Hume, the reigning champ, seems to have no intention of letting go of the
title which he has held for the last two years.  Simon Kennett, once holder
of the "World Mt Bike Hillclimb Champion" title, can never be discounted --
he must have the record for the record number of "runner-up" placings.  I
wonder also if Nathan Dahlberg, who seems to be recovering remarkably
quickly from his smashed leg during training for the '92 Mt Bike Worlds,
will compete in NZ again this summer -- he blew the competition away last
year on a non-suspended 2-year-old Diamond Back Arrival at the event he
competed in.

In the other classes, Bryan Siviter would have to be the favourite to
retain the Vets title, which he's held now for 3 years.  Kathy Lynch should
retain the Women's title, if she competes, although Kate Rattray, former NZ
Female Ski Champ, has improved with each season, and may make it hard for
Kathy.  The Juniors is always hard to pick, with so many talented young
riders emerging, but Palmerston North rider Jason Yalden will be up there
(he's the fastest local rider, and he's only 16).

--
  PLEASE USE THE ADDRESS BELOW FOR E-MAIL REPLIES
Phil Etheridge               P.Etheridge@massey.ac.nz
Macintosh Consultant         Phone: +64+6-356-9099 x8689
SMIS, Massey University      Fax:   +64+6-350-5611
Palmerston North, NZ         40*23'S 175*37'E,    GMT+13
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Help! Trickle-charging a gel-cell?
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:33:16 GMT
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble

In article <C0qrzH.M2M@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca>, praetzel@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel) writes:
|> 
|> You can build a simple charger with an old DC power supply
|> and a LM317 Voltage regulator.  Unfortunately I am not
|> handy with ascii drawings so I will refrain from including a circuit.

Just in case you don't find it elsewhere here's the rough idea.

Lead Acid battery charger (from Horowitz and Hill:)


                         LM317T       0R2
                         +-----+     ------
          Vi o-----+-----|i a o|-----|    |----+-------o  Vo
                 + |     +-----+     ------    |
           1000uF ===       |                 | |
            elec   |        |                 | | R1
                   |        |                  |
                   |        +------------------|
                   |                           |
                   |                          | |
                   |                          | | R2
                   |                           |
                   |                           |
           0 o-----+---------------------------+-------o


The LM317T tries to maintain 1.5v between the adjust and output
terminals.  With the simple resistor divider network shown:


        Vo = 1.5(1 + R2/R1)

The adjust terminal draws a minimal 50-100 uA.

They add a 0.2 ohm resistor in line, presumably as some current
limit ?

For a nicad charger you could replace R2 by the nicads, the current
would then be  I = 1.5/R1.  Vin would govern the number of nicads
which could be charged in series.

You may wish to replace/add to R2 with a variable resistor, or add
a 12v/6v changeover.


David.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: pat@wrs.com (Patrick Boylan)
Subject: High-top SPD shoes?
Keywords: SPD
Reply-To: pat@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:25:07 GMT

Has anyone seen any high-top SPD compatible Mt. Bike shoes/boots anywhere?

Thanks in anvance.

- Patrick
-- 
 Patrick Boylan, - Wind River Systems, Alameda, CA - pat@wrs.com
From: robishaw@asteroid.lrmsc.loral.com (Gary Robishaw x5960)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Plastic Ring on rear Wheel
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:29:18 GMT
Organization: Loral Rolm Mil-Spec Computers

In article <C0psMF.KJn@news2.cis.umn.edu> lind0014@student.tc.umn.edu writes:
>In article <h0+3wmn@rpi.edu> dinsmm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael Dinsmore) writes:
>>I have what might seem to be a trivial question?"
>>Is the plastici ring next to the freewheel on the 
>>back tire important?  Where can you get a replacement    
>>if you need one?  
>
>Yes, it's important if your read derailleur isn't quite adjusted right. 
>Under the proper conditions you can accidentally shift down below the
>lowest gear and catch the chain in the spokes.  This tears up your spokes,
>blows your wheel way out of true (and makes it hard to re-true with chewed 
>up spokes, and if you have really bad luck can tear your derailleur in half.
>
>Chris Lindensmith
>lind0014@student.tc.umn.edu
>University of Minnesota
>
The last time this happened to me, I was riding a Miyata. The chain jammed in
the spokes, wrapped around the axle, and snapped off the drop out. You can bet
I went down in a hurry. Luckily, I was away from the group on flat level ground.
No automobile monsters were in sight. Get the little plastic ring, and make
sure it's large enough. I bought one to match my new, larger cassette.

Just another data point.

Gary
-- 
Gary Robishaw          "He has a constitutional right to be not guilty."
robishaw@monolith.lrmsc.loral.com       Steven Barrucci after John Gotti's
408/432-5960                          sentencing.
Usnail -- 3151 Zanker Rd. San Jose, Ca. 95134-1928
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Rohloff chains
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:58:41 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

So!  By now, thanks to Jobst Brandt's probing and Hans-Joachim Zierke's
replies, including the information he kindly forwarded from Mr. Rohloff
himself, we have a lot of detailed information on the design, construction,
and theory of operation of the Rohloff chain.  What we need now is some
reports from the field.  Somebody out there must be riding with these
chains, so how about it, folks?  Do they work well?  Do they last a long
time?  More specifically, do they work *better* than, say, HypeGlide, and
do they last longer?  Are they worth the higher price?

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: dinsmm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael Dinsmore)
Subject: Plastic Ring on rear Wheel 
Summary: Do you need the plastic ring?
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:23:00 GMT

Hi.
I have what might seem to be a trivial question?"
Is the plastici ring next to the freewheel on the 
back tire important?  Where can you get a replacement    
if you need one?  
When I was in Bike Nashbar in Boston, I asked one of     
the guys there, and he said it was useless.  He also 
didn't have any of them in stock - or sell any of them.
Thank you.

Pedal On, 
Michael Dinsmore
dinsmm@rpi.edu                             Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
                                           Computer and Systems Engineering
From: pgf@cayman.com (Paul Fox)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: measuring chain wear? [summary]
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:24:28 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

I wrote:
: hi -- i once read a simple rule that could be used to determine if your
: chain needs replacing -- something like "if 10 links measure longer than so
: many inches", or something like that -- can anyone refresh my memory?

And now I write:

okay -- the short answer seems to be that when 12 links grow to 12-1/16 inches, it's time to
replace.  when they grow to 12-1/8 inches, you're probably wearing out your cogs, if they're the
sort that are susceptible to wear...

thanks to all who responded...

--
		paul fox, pgf@cayman.com, (617)494-1999
		Cayman Systems, Inc., 26 Landsdowne St., Cambridge, MA 02139
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Flaky halogen/lead acid light
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:22:12 GMT

In <37851@sophia.inria.fr> chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR) writes:


>Can't one solder all the connections in place? And use two
>wires instead of using the body of the bike as the earth?

Certainly.  I use a soldered two-wire harness on my homebrew
light, the only exceptions being the automotive quick-disconnect
plugs for the battery and charger.

Solder makes for very solid, weather-resistant connections, and
having a two-wire harness makes quick-release mounting much
simpler -- I've never seen a good ground connection made with
velcro or bungee cords.

The quick-disconnect plugs are tinned with 60/40 solder, so even
in salty conditions they resist corrosion.  I lube them with
anti-seize compound to keep them from freezing in cold, wet
weather.

Finally, I seal all openings with hot melt glue to keep water out
of housings and avoid electrolysis between components.
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
From: mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: wide-range gearing
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:46:02 GMT
Reply-To: mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.bicycles.tech, jtyl@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BJ) writes:
>Not true.  Ned Overend originally took his old XC-pro 12-28 7sp cassette
>and adapted it into an 8 sp 11-28 setup.  He uses this setup mated to
>a 20-32-44 microdrive front on his race bike.  Suntour just adapted his
>idea and turned it into a production setup.

I'd be suprised if ol' Ned really uses the 20-28 combination much.
He's probably more interested in the 32-28, getting a pretty low gear
without having to drop it onto the small ring.  This guy is a phenomenal
climber!

Originally I thought that it'd be nice to have small, 1 or 2 tooth jumps
for the whole range on my MTB cassette (I like straight blocks on the
road), but I find it's much less necessary off-road.  IMHO, 2 and 3 tooth
jumps on the back are preferable to a narrow range cassette and having to
shift chainrings all the time.

David Mackintosh
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: MBA LX review.
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:45:18 GMT

fattire@vnet.ibm.com (BJ Hargrave) writes:
>In <C0I0Ax.JBn@cs.uiuc.edu> Terry Thiel writes:
>>                                                   You know what's really
>>ridiculous IMHO are the Altus bikes with suspension that we're starting to
>>see. What's the durability of these things like?  It looks like you could
>>break them with your fingers.
>Check out the Altus C-10(?) cranks. The chainrings are spot-welded to
>the crankarm spider! I guess the chainrings must be really durable. :-)

Yeah I saw that.  Even the bike shop salesperson was disgusted with it.  They
don't usually like to point stuff like that out but he complained to me about
it openly.
-Terry
-- 
-Terry
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Subject: Re: MBA LX review.
Reply-To: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 16:25:18 GMT

There has ben lots of discussion about the new (LX), the existing, and the
expensive.  I was just wondering what do the commentors use.  What are 
you basing your opinions on?  Maybe we could have an informal survey
of component usage.  I run a full Shimano DX package (with RF - sorry 
Terry but I like them ;)  ).  I noticed a subjective 85-90% improvement 
from the Exage 400LX on my previous bike.  I have not rode using XT,XTR,
or the new LX and can only comment on the way they look.

What component group do you currently ride?


What other groups have you ridden/up/degraded from?


What is your opinon of the % increase/decrease in ride quality?


 "    "   "      "   "    "     "        "      "   durability?



Let's try to leave the looks of components as it is totally 
subjective.  Is there anything else that I've missed in the above?


Cheers...Stuart
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 10:54:19 EST
From: Chad Burkins <CTB103@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Trek 2000 or Composite ??

Hi,
  I recently had a dispute with a local Trek dealer, and to settle
the dispute, he has offerred to replace my Trek 1100 frame with
a Trek 2000 frameset for free, or replace it with a Composite Trek
frame for $200.  As I'm still a newbie to the road biking scene,
I was wondering if I might solicit some advice.  Money is a bit
tight right now, but I may be able to swing the $200.  As I understand it,
the Trek 2000 is the best Aluminum Frameset that Trek made, but a
Composite bike would be a bit stronger and a bit lighter.  But is it
worth the $200 ?? Any help would be a appreciated.
---
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Chad Thomas Burkins            \                                |
|   ctb103@psuvm.psu.edu           \     Life is uncertain,        |
|    burkins@crayola.cs.psu.edu     \     eat dessert first.       |
|     University Park, PA 16802      \                             |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gnome@pd.org (Mike Mitten)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Rube Goldberg device wanted...
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:19:31 GMT
Organization: The Laughing Gnome Software Farm, Atlanta, GA, USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Richard Foulk (richard@pegasus.com) wrote:
>Hmm.  Perhaps chains could be designed with some kind of simple cleaning
>machine in mind ...  maybe some kind of `vents' on each link to blow
>solvent through.

Like Grease Guard (TM) for chains?  Maybe Suntour is already working
on it.  :-)

  -Mike

Mike Mitten - gnome@pd.org - ...!emory!pd.org!gnome - AMA#675197 - DoD#522
Irony is the spice of life.     '90 Bianchi Backstreet  '82 Suzuki GS850GL
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: mfaison@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu (Michele Faison)
Subject: DAZER???
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Richmond)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 18:41:25 GMT


My apologies for taking up net space with this, but...

Before the holidays, someone posted a note asking about this
device, commenting that he had tried to follow up on this a few
months earlier but the original poster had never replied.  I
MAY have been that poster.

I did not have the opportunity to log in and check my mail very
often this fall, and lost my mailbox to a corrupted
environment or something.  Just now discovered that a bug
changed return addresses to garbage on replies I sent out a few
weeks ago, and they were all returned, undeliverable.

If I am the unresponsive party, I am sorry.  Please e-mail me
and I will tell you what LITTLE experience I have with the
DAZER.  (anecdotal...I've never personally used it against 
an attacking dog, but my poor pooch was disoriented by it.)  
I like the idea better than having to aim an article or substance
because accuracy isn't necessary.   Mainly, I've never had it when I
needed it because it was too awkward and sometimes didn't make
the weight/pocket cut.

--Michele Faison