HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:03:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Oct16.190348.11173
 <1992Oct13.212828.24507@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  
 <1992Oct16.013609.22592@credence.com>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Oct16.013609.22592@credence.com>
jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow) writes:

> Since Glass is just barely classical music it's unlikely he's forcing anybody
> away from it. If you're going to make outlandish claims try backing them
> up for a change.

And you'd call him what? Top-40?

>Fella, you've got the wrong newsgroup.

I see, love it or leave it?

Talk about backing up arguments!! You just defend yourself by telling
me to leave, very convincing. Modern day Plato.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: Re: Kalkbrenner
Organization: Visual
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 18:32:22 GMT

Mike Mayer writes:

>VOXBOX CDX 5064 The Romantic Piano Concerto, Vol. 1

   Friedrich Kalkbrenner   Piano Concerto No. 1 in D Minor, Op. 61

   Adolf von Henselt Piano Cnocerto in F Minor
   Ferdinand Hiller Konzertstuck for Piano and Orchestra
   Frederic Chopin Allegro de Concert in A Major
   Hummel Concerto for Piano and Orchestra op 110


Is this Hummel the B-minor concerto performance by Brendel?  If so,
it makes cuts in the work.  Hummel is far better served by Stephen
Hough on his CD of the A-minor and B-minor concertos.  Admittedly
not at a bargain price, though.
From: upanisad@mcl.ucsb.edu (Academic Fraud)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Beethoven's opus 90 piano sonata
Keywords: beethoven opus 90 piano sonata
Date: 11 Oct 92 06:25:34 GMT

In researching the large scale structures in Beethoven's opus 90 I have
come upon a stumbling block...different scores I have disagree on a 
crucial dynamic mark at the point of 'recapitulation.'  This is in 
measures 140-145 of the first movement...one edition I have states a
crescendo at 140 culminating in a forte dynamic in 144, while another
has the crescendo but no 'forte,' another has neither a crescendo nor
a forte, and the Schenker verision I have is really bad with both marks
in parentheses.  Does anyone out there know of the dynamic marks either
in the first publication or in the facsimile of the original manuscript
(if it even exists)?  Or, do any of you have any reccomendations as to 
the 'best' editions on the market now, ones which have a minimum of 
changes from the originals?
Thanks in advance,
elba.
upanisad@mcl.ucsb.edu
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bach Cello Suites on Period Instrument: Rec. Wanted
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:05:39 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <1992Oct8.181207.1@ulys.unil.ch> bmoullet@ulys.unil.ch writes:
>> In article <1992Oct6.065125.8678@midway.uchicago.edu> pkbockus@gsbphd.uchicago.edu (Keith Bockus) writes:
>>>I'm looking for a recording of the Bach Cello suites
>>>on a period instrument, but haven't found any 
>>>recommended recordings.  Any suggestions 
>>>(or reasons why I should not be looking for
>>>such a thing)?
>>>
>
>I have the version of Pierre Fournier and I find it very good. Jacqueline
>Du Pre had recorded a very nice execution of these suites too. I think
>that the performance of Yoyo Ma (with the cello of P. Fournier) and this
>from Casal are acceptable too. But for me the recording of Pierre Fournier
>is definitive !
>

I've heard quite a few recordings of the Cello Suites.  I'm not at all
impressed by either YoYo Ma or Lynn Harrell.  They seem to rush through
the dances without much grace.  I like the Starker on Mercury.  His
readings are fairly dramatic - not exactly what you'd expect.  But, 
the punch line is that (from what I've heard) Bertrand is 100% right.
Pierre Fournier is sublime.  His performance is exquisite.

John D.
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: DEBATE for those who are interested
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:40:14 GMT
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR

I still want to know what's so basic about Verdi, and how his music
serves the working stiffs. I sure haven't heard any truckers humming
La Donna Mobile on the CB lately.

Also, what about that difference between novelty and originality, hmmm?


						Jeff Winslow
From: mtp@oregon.uoregon.edu (Matthias Pohl)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Opinions of _Classic CD_ Magazine?
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:08:48 GMT
Organization: Dep. of Chemistry

In article <Bvu9vo.A5p@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cec35848@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chuck Carroll) writes:
> 
> I like listening to classical music, but I don't know much about it.
> (Certianly more than your average man/woman off the street, but not
> by much.)  I have about 25 classical CD's at the moment.
> I am a member of the "Musical Heritage Society" classical music
> club.
> 
> [...stuff deleted...]
>
> The cost is $34.95 for 6 months.
> 
> [...stuff deleted...]

> Chuck Carroll					      cec35848@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

The yearly subscription price for Classic CD, if u do it why the US Publisher, is around US$ 60. A bit cheaper than the offer by Musical Heritage.

/Matthias
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Opera in the vernacular
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:27:28 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Oct14.081947.10567@bsu-ucs.uucp>, 00hfstahlke@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
> Without raising up the hoary old issue of performance language for opera, I
> want to put out a question for discussion on a topic related to that.  Whether
> or not you think opera should be performed in the vernacular, or the Mass, for
> that matter, I'm curious, as a linguist, about the translatability of operas,
> where the libretto and the music may work together in such a way that a
> culturally appropriate translation just can't work.  Can you imagine, for
> example, Porgy and Bess sung in Italian?  
> 

(Almost) completely unrelated to your question, but what the heck. Apparently
the first European performance of Porgy & Bess was given in Nazi-occupied
Denmark, with an all-black cast, singing in Danish. Of course, if I've got the
details wrong, flame me. (I know you will even if I don't ask you to, but it's
more polite this way.
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
From: klimczak@serss0 (Peter Klimczak)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:53:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: fiu.Bw8qGE.L5r
Organization: Florida International University, Miami

I would like to know the Sonata (or is it a Lullaby) number which is  
commonly known as "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star."  I know the composer
is Mozart.

Thank you very much for any help.

Peter.
From: wikla@cs.Helsinki.FI (Arto Wikla)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: LA Phil
Date: 15 Oct 92 08:48:27 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki, Finland

Ann Gulbrandsen writes:

>A side comment on Salonen; He has been in charge of the Swedish Radio Orchestra
>for some 3-4-5? years now, and has quite a following in Stockholm. I heard a
>couple of his concerts last season, and really liked the Stravinsky: Oedipus Rex.
>That performance is now available on the Sony label, featuring Vinson Cole as
>Oedipus and Anne Sofie von Otter(another swedish mezzo:-) as Iocasta.

Sometimes there has been a confusion that Esa-Pekka Salonen is Swedish.
Because Ann's comment might strengthen that misunderstanding, I must
inform everybody that he is FINNISH! 
  I'm perhaps a bit nationalistic, but you know those little 
  European countries!!  :-)
Arto Wikla, Helsinki, Finland
From: vnguyen@husc8.harvard.edu (Vinh Nguyen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The Voyage
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:46:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Oct16.144615.16453
Reply-To: vnguyen@husc8.harvard.edu
Originator: vnguyen@husc8.harvard.edu

In article <92289.121005RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>,
 RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET (Robert Haskins) writes:

> Recent discussions of Glass have indicated that _Ahknaten_ is a ground
> breaking work.  Would someone please tell me _what,_ besides the
> funeral music in Act I, is so fantastic about this opera?
> 
> Bob

<sarcasm on>

Didn't you know that Glass has rediscovered the C-major tonic
triad for the Western musical world?  What greater ground is
there to be broken in more than 3 hours.  I mean, even when
Wagner redicovered the Eb-major tonic triad he could only
sustain it for 3 minutes at the start of Das Rheingold!

<sarcasm off>

Vinh Nguyen
From: ECOSLB@BYUVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Brahms 3rd Symphony (Repost)
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:39:39 GMT
Organization: Brigham Young University

Sorry if this shows up twice, but I'm not sure that the original ever
made it out.

I'm looking for a good recording of Brahms 3rd and would appreciate
your recommendations.  The recordings I have seen in local stores are
Szell (Sony), Bernstein(Sony and DG), Karajan (3 different recordings),
and Toscanini.  Comments on these recordings are particularly appreciated,
but I am also glad to hear of others I should keep an eye out for.  The
Szell, Bernstein Sony and the 1964(?) Karajan are coupled with the 2nd
symphony and I am also interested in the quality of those performances.
If there are any requests, I'll post a summary of responses to the net.
Thanks

Steve Boyce
BYU, Dept. of Economics
Internet:  ecoslb@vm.byu.edu
From: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:50:07 GMT
 <1992Oct15.061918.19057@Princeton.EDU> 
 <1992Oct15.202525.12831@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  
 <1992Oct16.004935.21659@Princeton.EDU>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Oct16.004935.21659@Princeton.EDU>
roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

> >A great composer IMRPOVES his craft. 
> 
> You making the rules for great composers here?  Or what?  Every composer
> has laid a few eggs; especially those who not only try to improve their 
> craft but go beyond nice craft to transforming their art.  Schubert's
> and Schumann's operas, even a few of Verdi's, and lots of other pieces
> by other composers fall into this category.  Is _Esther_ better than
> _Teseo_? 

I'd think my rule about improving their craft is indisputable (can you
think of great composers who haven't?) I'm not debating Schubert I'm
debating Glass with the argument that after Einstein no other opera has
been totally new or has shown signs of dramatic new perceptions or
skill. One Innovative opera does not a great opera composer make. And
so far that's all he's had. 


>Wagner took 
>28 years to write the Ring, not least because he had to change his 
>style several times. 

First the Ring is a series of four operas (counting Rhinegold) each
opera didn't come 28 years apart. Second he wrote operas between the
completion of Ring so even the distance between those wasn't barren and
finally are you saying that Glass' operas match the Ring in substance
(perhaps they plunder Wagner's scores) given the time they have taken?
P.S. Wagner didn't have to change his style it was a natural
progression (Perhaps you're confusing him with Glass,who deliberately
changed his style when he knew minimalism was at death's door)

>They work(ed) in different musical worlds, 
>with different demands, different expectations.

And much, much different results. 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: 910773f@ace.acadiau.ca (HEATHER LEE FYFFE)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Pachelbel Canon(s)?
Keywords: Canon, Pachelbel
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:21:06 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

In article <1992Oct15.010217.20043@athena.mit.edu> debrown@athena.mit.edu writes:
>From: debrown@athena.mit.edu
>Subject: Pachelbel Canon(s)?
>Keywords: Canon, Pachelbel
>Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:02:17 GMT
>Hello. Can someone tell me if Pachelbel wrote any Canons other than the famous
>Canon in D which have been recorded (on CD) by instruments other than solo organ?
>I'm sure I remember hearing some played a while back on a classical radio station.
> 
> 
>If anyone still has a Commodore computer, there was a program called Music 
>Construction Set by Electronic Arts which included a Canon by Pachelbel which
>WASN'T the Canon in D. Anyone know the name of that one??!! I'd love to know.
> 
> 
>Thanks,
> 
>Dave.



There is only one, original Pachelbel piece, known to us today as the 
canon.  It is true that it is actually a chaconne, but I had heard that 
Pachelbel himself erred in the naming of it.  Of tht I am not sure.  In any 
case, there are so many modern variations and adaptations and transcriptions 
out there that probably very few people have ever heard it performed 
in anywhere near the way that Pachelbel intended.  I myself own several 
different recording, all credited to Pachelbel, one of which is played by 3 
trumpets!  The Canadian Brass version I believe to be quite close to the 
original.  As well there are umpteens of piano solo arrangements, from 
beginner level to incredibly difficult, that alter and rearrange the melody 
freely for simplification purposes.  

I believe I know the Commodore thing referred to, and that is based on THE 
Canon, but it is quite freely arranged.  If I am thinking of the same one, 
you will notice that the all-important bass line is the same.

Love from the Buzzard
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: fernande@cps.msu.edu (Jose Roberto Fernandez)
Subject: Re: The Abuse of Classical Music
Originator: fernande@mango.cps.msu.edu
Reply-To: fernande@cps.msu.edu (Jose Roberto Fernandez)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 13:20:44 GMT

In article <Oct12.024350.88033@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
>I was wondering if anyone has yet compiled a short list of the most abused
>pieces of classical music, i.e. music used in stupid commercials, etc...
>
>Personally, I can't think of anything that gets picked on as badly as "The Ride
>of the Valkyries" from Wagner's Die Walkure.
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>			     "The noble soul has reverence for itself."
> Michael Hurben                                                  -Nietzsche
> Dept. of Physics         "Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."
> Colorado State University                                       -Quayle
> hurben@lamar.colostate.edu  "See how I love to clean filthy catboxes!"
>								   -Hoek
>_______________________________________________________________________________

For starters, the rec.music.classical FAQ has a list "What is that music
in [insert TV show/movie here]?"

One of the greatest abuses to me is the (over)use of Gershwin's Rhapsody
in Blue in the United Airlines commercials.  Hearing it over and over
(in short excerpt form) has seriously harmed my enjoyment of that piece.
-- 
Jose Roberto Fernandez
fernande@cps.msu.edu
From: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The Abuse of Classical Music
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:33:41 GMT
 <J8PRBBZ3@cc.swarthmore.edu> <12OCT199212061044@rover.uchicago.edu> 
 <1992Oct12.160341.1@venus.ycc.yale.edu>  <Bw19Hp.Ixz@comp.vuw.ac.nz>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

there is a decidedly anti-Verdi bias in your reporting of the worlds
most overused songs. What about "La donne e mobile" "Va
pensiero"(briefly mentioned) "Anvil chorus" Any march in Aida.
From: alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: LA Phil
Date: 10 Oct 1992 12:23:06 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: calvin.usc.edu

In article <1992Oct9.215915.7226@math.ucla.edu> jwebb@oak.math.ucla.edu (Janet Y. Webb) writes:
>	Did anyone go to the inaugural concert last night of the L.A. 
>Philharmonic with the new conductor Solenen?  There's been a lot of 
>talk in the LA Times about what a wonderful conductor S. is especially
>compared to Andre Previn but I am curious what the consensus here is.
>	What do LA folks think about S.?

I didn't go to the concert, but Salonen is hardly a newcomer. He's been
conducting several concerts a year for the past three years. Of course
the Philharmonic has been hyping his inauguration just as, I suppose,
any such organization would try to get their money's worth in publicity. 
But what has been really nauseating is Martin Bernheimer's fawning features
on him.

As to how good Salonen really is, I have to say I haven't seen him live
since the Previn days (three years ago). At that time I was unimpressed
with his technical ability, especially given all the hype he had received
even then. I was quite surprised when he was named music director, but
I suspect that Fleishmann (the autocratic Philharmonic managing director)
found the young Finn potentially easier to work with than someone with
the power, international stature, and ego of Previn. It was well known
that Previn left because of what he saw as Fleishmann's interference with
the pervue of the Music Director. I have also often suspected that critics
such as Bernheimer and impressarios such as Fleishmann love to be known as
"discoverers" of young talent.

That said, I will have to reserve judgement on how good Salonen really is
until I see him again a few more times.

Bill
From: cam@gu.uwa.edu.au (Cameron Neylon)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: DEBATE for those who are interested
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 03:22:03 GMT
Organization: University Computer Club --- Perth, Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: mullet.gu.uwa.edu.au

Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.) writes:

>Well I seem to have stirred up great controversy with my attacks on
>Glass so in an effort to extend the topic I just would like to say that
>Andrew Loyd-Weber has done more to bring opera (albeit in a highly
>corrupted version) to the mass audience than Glass or his horde of
>disciples. ALW is on the right track of popular music, now if one can
>just find a more talented composer we may have found the solution: Any
>opinions?
Ok if you want to look at popularity and who is bringing what audience
to what then I suggest you look, not at a cosmopolitan arts centre, but
at an out of the backwater of contemporary art. I live in one. It's called
Perth and is on the west coast of Australia for those of you too ignorant
to know.

Our local symphony orchestra ( yes there is _one_ full time professional
orchestra ), sometimes makes the concession too play something written
later than 1930, but it is a rare occurrence. Our only claim to any
musical preeminence is the presence of Roger Smalley as lecturer in
composition at our uni.

Now we have seen in my memory three AL Webber productions, Cats, Evita,
and a concert version of Jesus Christ. All to the best of my knowledge
sold out and ran several extra performances. There is no plan to 
perform Phantom here as they could not recoup costs. 

The only time Glass has ever appeared to my knowledge is a use of his
Dance music at a pooly attended performance by whatever group it was,
that commisioned the "Dancepieces".

ergo ALW attracts far more people to "Opera" than does glass, but as
far as real music is concerned he writes complete garbage, so where
dooes that leave us?

Sorry for rambling for no apparent reason.
-- 
Cameron Neylon  cam@gu.uwa.edu.au
I can't think of anything witty enough that people 
would really want to see it time after time after . .
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The Voyage, again
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:06:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: slc.1992Oct15.020659.15507
Distribution: na
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US

Vinh Nguyen (vnguyen@husc8.harvard.edu) writes:

> Some passable vocal writing, but more of the same
> atrociously mind-numbing minimalist scoring.  

Some of us whose minds oeprate at white heat all day long just love a
little numbing now and then.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Friday, 9 Oct 1992 11:54:02 EDT
From: <CSVBMD@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bach Cello Suites on Period Instrument: Rec. Wanted
 <1992Oct9.084953.15141@cheshire.oxy.edu>

Someone mentioned the fact that players seem to take a lot of liberty
in performing the Bach Suites for solo cello. What makes these pieces
difficult is that Bach simply wrote the notes in the manuscript without
any markings (regarding tempo, dynamics, etc.) The performer must rely
upon his/her imagination and education (regarding styles of the period)
to determine how to correctly play these. These Suites were actually
ignored for a couple of hundred years ; Casals didn't actually rediscover
them but he was the first to perform them. Finding an "authentic"
recording of these pieces would be in my opinion very difficult.

Regarding recordings of these works, I read that Emmanuel Feuermann
disliked performing the Bach Suites for cello because of his admiration
of Casal's playing of these Suites which he felt that he couldn't equal. That's
a pretty strong recommendation of the Casals recordings. The originals
are ancient, of course, but they were remastered and sound good.
From: inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: re: LA Phil
Date: 12 Oct 1992 10:25 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: eccles.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

 Ron Nadel reported on Salonen's Sunday performance - I heard the
Saturday night performance. I wouldn't give that performance the 
same rave review. I felt that the first and second movements were
far too episodic and piecemeal - isolated fragments with no real
integration into an overall architecture of the movement as a whole.
The orchestra also almost never reached p - mf to fff seemed to be
the preferred dynamic range. The later movements were much better in 
those respects - especially the final adagio. I also have to say that 
I find Salonen's dramatic conducting style rather distracting - and
there were times when the orchestra appeared to be just as confused as
I was as to where the downbeat was. The playing overall was pretty good -
although there were some strange outbursts from a raucous oboe and a 
couple of flubs in the off-stage trumpet. But the massed percussion had
a great time. The soloist was good, but scooped - maybe that's just
Renaissance bias on my part though - she does have a marvellous-sounding
voice.
 All in all, a reasonable start to the season - but not the amazingly
perceptive and outstanding performance that the LA Times was trumpeting. 
(Admission of bias - I find the current radio/billboard advertising 
campaign for Salonen & the LA Phil. massively overblown and silly, I
am naturally prejudiced against a conductor who appears as the caped
crusader on album covers, and I think Andre Previn was wasted on LA
audiences.)

 Neill Reid
From: 00hfstahlke@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Opera in the vernacular
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:50:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.154802.10063@menudo.uh.edu>, chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789") writes:
> Well, they ain't operas, but how about...
> 
> *The Kora Sutra* by Lou Harrison, written in esperanto(!); can one even 
> "translate" this?
> 
> *Aventures* by Ligeti and *A-Ronne* by Berio both employ a "made-up" 
> language [and other interesting sounds ;=) ].
> 

These two are new to me.  Esperanto is definitely translatable, since it is,
although originally made up, a natural language and even for a small number of
people a first language.  I'm curious about both the Ligeti and the Berio, two
composers I enjoy.  Are they available recorded?

Herb Stahlke
Ball State University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical