HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Re: kamban-ramaayanam
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:32:38 GMT

In <1992Sep4.074842.19290@cis.ohio-state.edu> sundar@golf.cis.ohio-state.edu (N Sundar) writes:



>>> panjiyoLir vinchukuLir pallavam anungka 
>>> senjsevia kanjam nimir seeRadiyaLaaki
>>> am sol iLa manynyai yenna annam ena minnum
>>> vanjiyenna nanja mena vanja makaL vanthaaL.


>>> Probably the third line is .... mangai ena ...

>>    It is manynyai-peacock

>This is interesting. I was not aware that thamizh words can end in 'nyai'
>(Itrans).

peacock and annam are referred here. kamban has used extensively
the "inj sound in the four lines. 

>> pallavam-meaning feet. anungka-approach. 

>That throws some light on it. The word `panjiyoLir' probably refers to
>cempanchuk kuzhambu, liquid shellac, that ancient women used to decorate
>their feet. 
Enlightening. .
>>> senjsevia kanjam nimir seeRadiyaLaaki

>Since this part is anybody's guess, I'll make a guess :-) It refers to the
>soft sound of her steps. They are supposed to be so quiet they make one's 
>ears pick up.
  
  seeRadiyaL-could be short steps. but what is kanjam nimir.?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Thirupagazh-arunagirinaathar
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:20:37 GMT


               

           Tirupukazh
           ^^^^^^^^^^^ 
    yERumayil yERi viLaiyaadum mukam ondRu
     eesarudan gnana mozhi pEsu mukam ondRu
    kURumadi yaarkaL vinaitheerkum mukam ondRu
     kundRuruva vElvaanki ninRa mukam ondRu
    maaRupada sUrarai vathaitha mukam ondRu
     vaLLiyai maNam puNara vantha mukam ondRu
    aaRu muka maana poruL nee aruLal vENdum
      aathi aruNaacalam amarntha perumaaLE!

    aruNagirinaathar.


    One face rides on the peacock and plays sport.

    One face speaks words of wisdom with sivan.

    One face solves the problems(karmas) of devotees.

     One face despatched the vEl (spear) to pierce the mountain.

    One face troubled the asuras.

    One face accepted vaLLi in marriage.

    Muruga! O Lord that has ancient resort 
   in aruNaachalam. Please reveal the meaning behind the
    six faces. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: sundar@golf.cis.ohio-state.edu (N Sundar)
Subject: Vanja magal (WAS re: kamban-Raamaayanam)
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 06:38:41 GMT

In article <?>, Natarajan Sureshbabu  (babu@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu) writes:
> Isn't vanjam like in vanjam theeRkiRathu used for taking revenge?

It could also mean `deceitful'. Soorpanaka comes with the intent to deceive
Rama as to her real form and nature. I don't think she knew of the
existence of Sita before speaking with rama, so the word probably
does not refer to it.

P.S.: I am sorry I am unable to quote the article number. Something went
wrong with either my `xterm' or `rn'.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
N. S. Sundar          |    I am ardently against all awkward, affected
GTA, CIS, OSU         |    and artificial alliteration.
Off. ph: 292-4029     |
From: sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Literary Awards in Tamil
Date: 31 Aug 1992 13:11:18 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

[ I have corrected a few editing errors in my last posting. - SP ]
 
M.Sundaramoorthy ( sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu ) writes :

>	Regarding Sahitya Academy award and other literary awards:

>	These awards by institutions most of the times go to the influential
>	people, rather than the quality  writers, at least when it comes
>	to Tamil. Still, once in a while few good writers do get.

>	The really deserving writers who got the award include Bharathidasan
>	(Piciraanthaiyaar, a 'poetic drama'), Ka.Naa.Su. (ilakkiyaththukku
>	oru iyakkam', a collection of critical essays), Jayakanthan,
>	Cu. Samudram and Ki. Rajanarayanan ('gOpallapuraththu makkaL', second
>	volume of his two parts 'historical novel').

> M. Sundaramoorthy
> sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu 

        Thi.Jaanakiraaman also got a Sahitya Academy award for his short-
story collection `sakthi vaiththiyam'. I have not read this collection, but
I have read his novels `ammaa vandhaaL' and `mOgamuL'. The fact is that
Tamil writer Rajam Krishnan who was in the selection committee for awards
resigned her membership post when Thi.Jaa was chosen by the committee for
the Sahitya Academy award ( Tamil ) for that year as she found the writings
of Thi.Jaa very obscene on women. Thi.Jaa's `Ammaa vandhaaL' has a delicate
and explosive theme and it is a great work. This book breaks away from the
established images of women ( `Laxmi',Rajam Krishnan..) , in a non-commercial
sense. Rajam Krishnan's resignation following the award to Thi.Jaa just tells
us the opposition that good Tamil writers face even among the Sahitya Academy
selection committee for selecting books for awards.
                
                                                                      - SP
                                                         sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu

_________________________________________________________________________

                        \"/                                \"/
  |      | |"""|"  /""" /"\""/"\""| |        |      |  /""" /"\""|
  |      | |   |  | \  |   ||   | | |  /\    |  /\  | | \  |   | | 
  |______| |   |   \_/  \_/  \_/  | |_/__\__ |_/  \_|  \_/  \_/  |
                                         |       

_________________________________________________________________________
From: Venkatachalam Aruna  (Affable)
Subject: O  rasikkum ceemanE
Reply-To: aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu (Venkatachalam Aruna)
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:08:37 GMT

In the midst of serious discussions, let me post this in the
lighter side.
Could anybody complete this good old movie song?
  O rasikkum ceemanE
  vaa jolikkum udai aninthu
  kalikkum nadanam purivomE.
paadiyavar, padap peyar, nadiththavarkal, padalai iyaRRivar pOnRa
vivarankalum pirasurikkupattaal mika nallathu.

Cheers,
Venkat
--
venkat@jetson.uh.edu                  | If you love something,set it free.
venkat@menudo.uh.edu                  | If it comes back, it is yours.
aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu(NeXT mails okay)| If it does not, it never was.
(713)-923-7773(h) & (713)-743-4250(w) |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System)
Subject: Re: ammA/appA
Organization: DSIR, Palmerston North, New Zealand
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 09:40:59 GMT

In article <14699@borg.cs.unc.edu> krishnar@chopin.cs.unc.edu (Rajarama Krishnan) writes:


>One thing common about several languages I have heard about is that the
>sound "pa" is associated with father and the sound "ma" is assosiated
>with mother. 

Although my eldest son now calls me appA, his first word was "horse" and not 
ammA. Given these qualifications, it seems to me that the sucking in of 
lips to say ammA is a very natural thing for a breast-fed child, whereas 
the blowing out of breath in appA is but a fit expression for that other 
useless adult from whom no nourishment can be obtained. It is surely a bonus
that the fellow is pleased by this, and stays around until he gets some 
sincere affection.
Brian Shaw                          Internet: hrpbds@pnv.palm.cri.nz  
The Horticulture & Food Research Institute of New Zealand           
Private Bag 11 030
Palmerston North                                 Phone   +64 6 356 8080 x7164
New Zealand                                      Fax     +64 6 354 6731
     "Herea te tangata ki te whenua"   'Bind the people to the land'
From: sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy)
Subject: Re: Similarity between Telugu and Tamil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.telugu,soc.culture.tamil
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:04:36 GMT

In article <BtJxBC.ID9@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (Srinivasan K.) writes:
>rachada@icaen.uiowa.edu (Ramakrishna Chada) writes:
>RC>It is quite commonly said that the languages Telugu and Tamil are
>RC>similar. However, this opinion seems to have been voiced by Tamilians
>RC>who do not know Telugu.
>
>
>Encyclopedia Britananica has a whole section on these languages, compiled by
>linguists, for anybody, who want to know. I think requesting an opinion
>survey is just invitation for wasteful bashings in this newsgroup.
>Hence I request people not to start another 'war' on this topic.
>
>K. Srinivasan   srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca

	I speak Telugu at home (more than half of my villagers speak), but
	studied Tamil. I am as qualified as any one else to comment on this
	subject. Whatever I could think on this subject have already been
	said by Drs. K.S.Rao, Selvakumar and Srinivasan and there is no point
	in dragging this with listing of common words, claims and counter
	-claims etc.

	I remember seeing a small dictionary, when I was in school,
	'oka pilEri naalu baasha', which lists equivalents of Tamil
	Telugu, Hindi and I don't remember the fouth one. One could
	find lot of Tamil and Telugu words that sound very close.

	I like to recall two things related this topic. (Written Telugu has
	more Sankrit words and can be called 'Pundit Telugu', comparable to
	the fancy 'thaniththamizh').  

	(1). 'eenaadu', a Telugu Daily broke this trend of continuous 
	sanskritisation of Modern Telugu, using common man's language
	(like, 'dhinaththandhi').

	(2). I remember reading a 'letter to the editor' in 'The Hindu',
	in which the reader compared the Delhi News of AIR in Tamil and
	Telugu. He claimed that while Tamils are more consious about using
	good Tamil words, Telugus have not made any worthy attempt towards
	that. The result, he claimed, is more usage of Sanskrit and Hindi
	words and hence, making the 'news' less popular.

	I heard that in M.A. Telugu course there is a compulsory Sanskrit Paper.
	Does it have anything to do with this trend continuing still?.

M. Sundaramoorthy
sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu
sundar@esv1.hsis.uci.edu 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.telugu,soc.culture.tamil
From: rachada@icaen.uiowa.edu (Ramakrishna Chada)
Subject: Re: Similarity between Telugu and Tamil
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:53:01 GMT
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

In article <2A9A8444.18620@orion.oac.uci.edu> sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy) writes:

>	Telugu, Hindi and I don't remember the fouth one. One could
>	find lot of Tamil and Telugu words that sound very close.
 
I do think they sound close. But if we try to make sense based on sound I am 
sure we will be way off the track.

>
>	I like to recall two things related this topic. (Written Telugu has
>	more Sankrit words and can be called 'Pundit Telugu', comparable to
>	the fancy 'thaniththamizh').  
>
>	(1). 'eenaadu', a Telugu Daily broke this trend of continuous 
>	sanskritisation of Modern Telugu, using common man's language
>	(like, 'dhinaththandhi').
>
>	(2). I remember reading a 'letter to the editor' in 'The Hindu',
>	in which the reader compared the Delhi News of AIR in Tamil and
>	Telugu. He claimed that while Tamils are more consious about using
>	good Tamil words, Telugus have not made any worthy attempt towards
>	that. The result, he claimed, is more usage of Sanskrit and Hindi
>	words and hence, making the 'news' less popular.

Less popular, I doubt it. I haven't heard any such comment about AIR news.
No, I am not calling for a survey on that :-).

>
>	I heard that in M.A. Telugu course there is a compulsory Sanskrit Paper.
>	Does it have anything to do with this trend continuing still?.
>
>M. Sundaramoorthy

Ramakrishna
From: bkannan@ha06.eng.ua.edu (Balaji Kannan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Similarity between Telugu and Tamil
Date: 26 Aug 1992 10:57:24 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu




>Irrespective of the acceptance of my points and views, I can not understand,
                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>why dis-association with Tamil is all that important for some.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



         Let me try.

      1) Based on plain facts. That Tamil was not the progenitor of all the
         Dravidian languages but might have influenced/been influenced as
         much which some Tamils find difficult to digest. A fear that
         some Tamils out there will hog all the credit for "inventing" a
         great language family.

      2) The reason we sometimes deny history is either because we
         consider that

            1) something *has been* an evil influence. [point of view]
            2) association with something ain't pushing your
               reputation currently.

      3) By dissociating now, and distancing eventually, hope to chart out
         an independent growth for the language in the future.


      Some or all of these holds good in the case of Tamils too. However, I
      for one will not accuse the other South Indian languages/people of
      as much Xenophobia.



      bk
From: sivap-m@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Muhunthan Sivapragasam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: ammA/appA
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:22:10 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci
Originator: sivap-m@pegasus.cs.buffalo.edu


it is said "ma" is the first sound a child says

i am a srilankan tamil. in my place the belief is a baby first learns to say
"mama" ( which refers to uncle ), then amma, and it takes quite sometime to
start saying "appa" ( father ).
From: sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: y? ask why?
Date: 26 Aug 1992 16:30:16 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

 Vicky ( vigneswa@ecs.umass.edu ) writes :

> Sundara Pandian writes:
>(follow-up for Kathiravan's posting)

>>    I am not sure whether the above verse is in the correct
>>  form. The one I remember is
>>   [ In Adhami transliteration scheme ]
>> 
>>            Thiruppugazh
>>           -------------
>>    yErumayil yERi viLaiyaadum mugam onRE
>>      eesanudan gnaana mozhi pEsum mugam onRE .....
>> 
>>    yErumayil yEri viLaiyaadum mugam onRE
>>      - This line refers to Pazhamudhir chOlai ( Madurai )

>Refer to yERu......

>	I observed the use of letter "y" in front of 'uyir ezuththukkaL' 
>(consonants) in some SCTamil postings. In their way, 'uyir ezhuththkkaL'
>would have  been 'yuyir yezhuththkkaL'.  Why do few  people tend to use 
>"y" there?   [y? ask why?]

     Though I claimed that I gave `thiruppagazh' in K.Srinivasan's
 ADAMI transliteration scheme, what I posted was not free of  
 mistakes. The corrected ( ADAMI ) verse is as follows :
 
[ Using K.Srinivasan's ADAMI transliteration scheme ]
               Thiruppugazh
              --------------
 
   ERumayil ERi viLaiyaadum mugam onRE
     eesanudan NYaana mozhi pEsum mugam onRE
   kooRum adiyaarkaL vinai theerkkum mugam onRE
     kunRuruva vElvaanki ninRa mugam onRE
   maaRupada soorarai vathaiththa mugam onRE
     vaLLiyai maNam puriya vandha mugam onRE
   aaRumuga maana poruL nee aruLa vEndum
     aadhi aruNaachalam amarntha perumaaLE !

   Mostly I pronounce `E' as `yE'. So I wrongly typed
 `yERumayil' instead of `ERumayil'.

>ADAMI.....


>	What does ADAMI suggest?  In my view, 'yERumayil' is wrong.  It
>must  be 'ERumayil', right?  If  both are  same for ADAMI, how  does it  
>differentiate 'yannal', yAnai', 'yuham', 'yoothar', 'yEsu'... etc?
     You are correct.Please refer to the verse posted above to see
 the error-free form in ADAMI. ADAMI distinguishes `yE' and `E' and
 also `yooham' and `ooham' [ guess ].


>	Also, in  the above 'thiruppukazh', those first two  words must
>have "R", not "r".
     True.


>Vicky:
>UMass, Aug 26
                                                            S.Pandian.
                                                     sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil
From: mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu)
Subject: Annadurai, Part 3
Originator: mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 01:17:20 GMT




On C.N.Annadurai  from the PhD thesis of Charles Ryerson, "Regionalism and
Religion, The Tamil Renaissance and Popular Hinduism".


On September 17, 1949, amidst a propitous rainstorm, the Dravida
Munnetra Kazhagam (Progressive Dravidian Federation) was launched
at Robinson Park in Madras.  It kept the red and black colours of the
DK, but its new flag had those colours arranged in two horizontal stripes.
The very next day Anna and EVR were sentenced to fines of seven hundred 
rupees each or six months jail for "anti-Aryan" writings.  In 
Anna's case it was for Arya Maayi, his most virulant work.  Both men
chose to be imprisoned and both were sent to the same jail.

.....

A Tamil town, Kallakudi, had become the site of a major industrial 
undertaking by the North Indian capitalist, Dalmia.  The town was
renamed Dalmiapuram.  The DMK demanded the new name be given up--seeing
the demand a perfect conjoinig of the radical socialism and 
romantic nationalism.  On July 15, 1953, DMK volunteers, led
by the young M.Karunanidhi, stopped trains by lying on the 
tracks, tactics learned from Gandhi's freedom struggle.  There 
was police firing, two volunteers lost their lives, and the DMK
had its first martyrs.

....

Politically, the DMK had the most spectacular career of any non-Congress
party in India.  It is surpricing that so few people took it
seriously until its victory in 1967.  Many observers assumed that the 
"Tamilization: of Congress Party under K. Kamaraj would decimate DMK ranks. 
Thus a "knowledgeable" survey of the Indian political scene, written 
just before 1962 elections, had this to say:

  "The DMK wants to be popular in all the Southern states but it
   has no strength in any state other than Madras.  Even in that 
   stae its strength is gradually dwindling because of the changing
   character of the local Congress party which is reflecting the
   change of social patters of that state" [S. L. Poplai ed 1962 
   "General Elections in India", Bombay Allied Publishers 1962 pp 28.]

(To be continued ... )

Meenan Vishnu
From: rnathan@penuts.enet.dec.com (V RAMANATHAN)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Help
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:44:44 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Hi Friends,

	I have a friend working for WIPRO Hydrebad (India).
Is it possible to reach him thro' E-Mail. Please send me 
a mail or post your reply.

Thanks,

/Ram
-Message-Text-Follows-
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: uds@wsu-eng.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar)
Subject: Re: Animal Sacrifice in Temples
Reply-To: uds@wsu-eng.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar)
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:37:14 GMT

In article <92246.095106IO92395@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> T.C.A.Venkatesan <IO92395@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>   As long as the meat is being used for feeding people, it is difficult
>to condemn these acts. All the meat in this world comes from killing
>'innocent' animals. One either condemns meat-eating or forget the
>whole thing. If the animals are just sacrificed and thrown away, or if
>killing itself is not done properly, then it is barbaric and needs to
>be stopped.

THere is a video available in very very very few video libraries
about death : I think its called ``many faces of death''.  I heard a
rumor that it was `banned' here in US, but 1st amendment saved it.
It has real ghastly videos of how meat is made in addition to a clip of
a man being scalped and maimed by a grizly bear (this shot was taken by
his wife, who was too schocked to stop video-ing that from close-up)...

>Cheers,
>Venky.
> T.C.A. Venkatesan                Bitnet  : IO92395@maine
> Dept. of Physics & Astronomy     Internet: venky@gandalf.umcs.maine.edu
> University of Maine
> Orono, ME 04469                  Phone   : (207) 581-1022


Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Re: Similarity between Telugu and Tamil
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:58:14 GMT

In <9208261556.AA12072@ha06.eng.ua.edu> bkannan@ha06.eng.ua.edu (Balaji Kannan) writes:




>>Irrespective of the acceptance of my points and views, I can not understand,
>                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>why dis-association with Tamil is all that important for some.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



>         Let me try.

>      1) Based on plain facts. That Tamil was not the progenitor of all the
>      bK  

  bK (OK) Guru! You provided a lot of useful facts.
                Good for you. Great points with useful references.
                Better read linguistics.
                or atleast learn from people who know.

I can only suggest references.

For ex. AK Ramanujan's book on love poetry.
        Kamil Zvelebil's book titled, "Smile of murugan".
KK
Xref: sparky soc.culture.tamil:1935 alt.culture.tamil:1268
From: sumeet@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (sumeet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: DESPERATELY SEEKING LYRICS !!
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:09:52 GMT
Reply-To: sumeet@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (sumeet)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: sumeet@happy.cc.utexas.edu

Hi, net gurus. This request is directed specifically towards the Tamil speaking
junta. Could anyone kindly mail me the lyrics of any/some/all of the following
songs :

1. Ilaya Nila 
2. Mandram vanda
3. Nilave vaa
4. Sundari Neeyum
5. O Priya Priya
6. Rum bam bam aadambam

I will be singing these songs at a concert at Houston on Sept 12. Exact 
lyrics would be greatly appreciated. Your presence at the fuction would be 
really welcome !!
	
Please email your responses to me at:  sumeet@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

Paat paad va paat kekya va....
From: chemsn@emory.edu (Sreehari Nimmala)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Reservation for temple priests
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:48:09 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

bhat@ccad.uiowa.edu (Dinkar N. Bhat) writes:
: I think Mr. Arasu is virulently against brahmins. It is not a question
: of whether 4% take 10% of seats. Why cant you get it in you that it
: is a question of MERIT (heard of that?). I am definitely not
: suggesting that forward class(SO CALLED) are better of more meritorious.
: Whoever is best gets the seat. IS it that difficult to undertstand ?
: 
: Dinkar.

I am not sure whether Arasu IS or NOT, but there are
thousands and thousands of people out in India who are
virulently against this particular community.If given a
chance, they would like to see to that this particular sect
no more considers itself superior.

---sree
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil