From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Understanding
Date: 20 Dec 92 00:48:41 GMT
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin

In <1992Dec17.060501.1588@news.acns.nwu.edu>
Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:

>[Re: "men can't understand (the oppression of) women and visa versa]

>Roughly, I would say that I think it is *possible* for men to understand
>women and women to understand men, and that it is a lot *easier*
>for women to understand men than vis-versa. (Because of the 
>assymetry of oppression.)

I agree.

>I would contrast this with saying that men can't understand women
>or that men and women can't understand each other.
>
>I would rather be told that I don't understand than I can't understand.

Again, I agree.

>I don't want to come across to the women of the world saying "educate
>me" or "convince me with logic of your experience".

Here is how it is for me.

	When it comes to learning principles from listening to the
	experiences of others, I am a slow learner. Thus, if a woman
	told me her experiences of XYZ and why it gets to her, I
	probably wouldn't "get it." So she might have to tell me again.
	And again. And again. Or better still, if different women _each_
	told me their experiences then _eventually_ I would start to
	"get it."

Of course, it would probably be very frustrating for all these women to
have to realte their experiences to me repeatedly until I "got it" and
then to have to repeat the process again for the next guy who comes
along. [BTW, this situation applies equally well to straight people who
don't "get" GLB issues and have to have it explained to them
repeatedly. If you're GLB and have been on the receiving end of this
questioning for long enough then you are probably also frustrated with
the apparent lack of ability of straight people to "get it."]

What works for me (your mileage may vary) is to find a book which
contains personal accounts written by a large number of women, where
each account discusses that woman's experience of XYZ. In this way, the
women only need to relate their experinces once and since the book can
be mass-printed, many men can hear (read) all these experiences easliy
and repeatedly.

A few points about this.

	o It is extra work, initially, for the women to write down their
	  experiences rather than say them verbally. However, with a
	  mass readership, this hopefully works out as a saving in the
	  end.
	o Once the book has been produced, a woman who has been asked by
	  a man to relate her experiences of XYZ can say "Here's a
	  great book on the topic. Why don't you read that instead."
	  This is a great advantage since the woman needn't get
	  frustrated at having to repeat herself with little hope of the
	  man understanding her. If somebody refuses to read the book
	  then I would seriously question their claim to want to
	  understand XYZ.
	o For me to "get it", the book needs to contain quite a lot of
	  personal accounts. I would say about 50--70 is ideal. (Though
	  perhaps I am a slow learner and other folk might not need so
	  many.)
	o It is infeasible to think that there will be an "Experinces of
	  XYZ" book for possible XYZ topic. Still, if the book(s) which
	  do exist provide a good grounding in some of the basic issues
	  then they will help a lot.
	o Not everyone likes reading books, or can learn from them, as
	  much as me.

For the case of XYZ = oppression of women, I recommend the book
"Sexual Harassment." (I've posted the reference to this several times
before so I don't want to waste bandwidth doing so again. Email if you
want it.) And for the case of XYZ = bisexuality, I recommend "Bi Any
Other Name."


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
Newsgroups: soc.bi