HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: PHOBE ALERT:  Clinton Faces Firestorm on Military Issue
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:16:18 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1992Dec17.174730.3285@draco.macsch.com> bjb@macsch.com (Bryan) writes:
>          --  CLINTON FACES FIRESTORM ON GAYS IN THE MILITARY --
>[...]
>     If they win, gay militants will turn on the civilian sector 
>demanding the right to marry, to adopt and to teach homosexuality in 
>schools.

Damn right, although I doubt that gays in the military will have much
to do with it.

>They will bully groups like the Boy Scouts into accepting 
>homosexual men as role models for young boys.

Irrelevent.  Young boys are not going to have a homosexual orientation
because of a homosexual adult in their lives.  Statements like this
only prove the need for more education and non-discrimination laws.

>DRIVEN TO DRAFT?
>
>     Without the ban, America's young service men and women will be 
>forced by law to share barracks and showers with homosexuals.  

Is this really the kind of concern one has when one is volunteering
to die for one's country?  I would be more concerned about getting
killed in combat (or lousy food).

>Recruitment of young men and women for our All-Volunteer Force will 
>suffer.  This could open the door to a draft--a dread possibility for an 
>untested commander-in-chief who himself declined to serve.

If Clinton is going to take charge then he should take charge.  Anybody
in the military who's hatred of homosexuals outweighs their desire to
serve their country should submit a statement as such in writing.  Id
they are not willing to perform their duties they should get a
dishonerable discharge.  Nobody joins the military to have their
every whim pandered to.  

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads:  women posting and "cures" and its spinoffs)
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:50:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec15.035017.29030
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <18123@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>You have completely missed my point.

Well, that won't be the last time... :-)  Thanks for the elaboration.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: An Apology
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:03:59 GMT

In article <GANDALF.92Dec11171637@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu> gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell) writes:
>Oh, please. I think we all need to lighten up a bit. 
>How are we supposed to express anger?

By using misogynistic phrases, of course.

>"That extremely unpleasant person, Lou Sheldon, makes me very very 
>perturbed." Right. It really sounds angry.

Oh, I'm sure you can do better than.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.misc
From: zedaker@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (PMW "MAP")
Subject: re:earrings/long hair on men
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:40:21 GMT

From what I understand the idea of men wearing earrings, at least as far  
as sea-going travelers were concerned, was for the men to give the  
earrings (usually gold and such) to the guard at the gate of heaven. (Or  
something like that.)  I think it was also a sign of manhood.  In many  
cultures earrings of all sorts are a sign of beauty.

On another note, did anyone out there realize that the tradition of men  
"having to" wear short hair didn't begin until World War I? There was a  
problem with the soldiers getting lice, therefore they were then required  
to have very short hair for easy detection.  Notice pictures of Civil War  
officers.  They almost always had a fair amount of hair, including often  
beards and/or large mustaches.  After all Custer was known as "long/yellow  
hair" by the Native Americans.

I believe that it is a free country and someone, male or female, might  
wear earrings and/or long hair as an expression of their individuality.   
If you don't like it then don't do it.  I personally am not attracted to  
men with long hair and earrings; but that doesn't mean that I am offended  
by a man who wears earrings and long hair.  
Newsgroups: soc.misc
From: bgpierce@magellan.uwaterloo.ca (B.G. Pierce)
Subject: Re: Ear Rings
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:48:12 GMT

In article <ednclark.723946141@kraken> ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark) writes:
>nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan) writes:
>
>I wonder about the cultural origin of wearing ear rings, as to how
>this bad tradition propagated almost through all contemporay cultures
>and what opinions people may have about it.

I've heard that Greek sailors used to wear an earring because if they
got killed at sea, the gold ring would always be on their person.  That
way they'd have the gold to pay their passage across the river Styx and
thus would enter the Greek equivalent of heaven.

  True?  Don't know.  Maybe, but probably not the origin of the
practice.  Just an instance of it.

                                                   b
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Saturday, 12 Dec 1992 16:00:34 EST
From: <CMLEE@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.misc
Subject: test.

I'm just trying to figure out how to post things on the newgroup.
Newsgroups: soc.misc
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Re: Lyme Disease E-mail Network...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:54:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.161008.69528@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Marc Gabriel) writes...
>half a million victims and the number of new patients continues to spiral
>upward with no relief in sight.  It is estimated that in 1991, 100,000


As it turns out, a news item in the Thursday NY Times is relevant.
The Reuters dispatch is headlined "Study of Lyme Disease Finds Little
Risk in Deer Tick Bites". It cites a study appearing in the latest
New England Journal of Medicine as saying that "even in a region
where Lyme disease is common, only 1.2 percent of the people bitten
by a deer tick become infected."
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Saturday, 12 Dec 1992 16:02:07 EST
From: <CMLEE@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.misc
Subject: Yesss.

now I found out the way to post things here!!
BTW, Merry Christmas
From: mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Marc Gabriel)
Newsgroups: soc.misc
Subject: Lyme Disease E-mail Network...
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:10:08 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Introducing...

******************************************************************************
*                           ----- LDEMN ----                                 *
*                The Lyme Disease Electronic Mail Network                    *
******************************************************************************

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States.  In 10 short years, this little known bacterial infection has claimed
half a million victims and the number of new patients continues to spiral
upward with no relief in sight.  It is estimated that in 1991, 100,000
Americans contracted this dangerous disease.  If left untreated, LD can cause
permanent nerve, musculoskeletal and cardiac damage.

Unfortunately, many in the medical and political arenas have not given this
epidemic much thought.  Self appointed experts in the academic community have
declared that LD can always be cured with short courses of simple antibiotics.
However, as the number of cases rise, doctors on the front lines are
discovering that LD is more serious that previously suspected, requiring longer
treatment therapies and more complex combinations of medicines.  The battle
lines have been drawn.

And the battles continue at LD conferences, and in the various State
legislatures where insurance companies, terrified at the high cost of LD, are
attempting to short change patients.  Estimates show that the average cost of
treatment for chronic LD patients ranges from $60,000 to $100,000 per patient.

MAILING LIST:
To keep up with the latest developments, including new treatment protocols,
research news and political events, we introduce the Lyme Disease Electronic
Mail Network.  The LDEMN, in association with the Lyme Disease Network of New
Jersey, Inc., with provide you with a periodic newsletter with the latest
information.  All you need is an Internet- accessible e-mail address.

INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS INCLUDE:
* LD patients
* Friends or family of LD patients, who may wish to forward the
  newsletter to an LD patient
* Interested members of the medical community
* Interested members of the press

The subscription is completely FREE of charge, and we will NOT DISCLOSE your
address without your prior written permission.

To subscribe, send a memo to Internet address  mcg2@Lehigh.EDU
In the subject, type:  ADD LDEMN
In the body indicate your preferred e-mail address.
Optionally you may include your name, snail-mail address, and synopsis of your
situation.

-- 
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
             Marc C. Gabriel '93    -  U.C. Box 545  -
               (215) 882-0138        Lehigh University
              mcg2@Lehigh.EDU       Bethlehem, PA 18015
                Compu$erve: >internet:mcg2@Lehigh.edu
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 I'm still thinking about the witty one-liner I'm supposed to put here.
From: vanhoek@bend.UCSD.EDU (Karen van Hoek)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Shaming men's sexuality
Date: 16 Dec 1992 06:14:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

I can come up with an example to answer the recent request for
a published example of female-bashing roughly equivalent to
the Weenie-toons cartoon that I objected to (where the girl
says to the little boy, about his penis, "At least it didn't
grow on your face").  I rarely look at typical porn magazines,
but I remember a photograph from Hustler that really bothered
me. The caption said "Retread Twat", and the photograph was of
a woman's vulva, close-up, with a cherry sitting in it.  I 
was pretty disgusted by it.  The message I got at the time
was first that older women's genitals are undesirable (this
may not have been intended by the photographers, but as
best I can recall, the pubic hair looked grey, implying
age; it was quite a few years ago, though, so I'm not sure),
and second that women's genitals in general are made for
mockery, to have objects stuck into them with demeaning
captions.  It was pretty bad.

That's the one example I can think of; I haven't looked at
Hustler in a long time.  Honestly,I think if you want
examples of hateful mockery of female genitals, you can
probably find some pretty quickly in one of these magazines.
Nevertheless, I'm opposed to the idea of mocking men in
the same way and calling it "feminism".  I think there's far
too much work to be done if we're going to reclaim our 
sexuality from the ravages of this culture, to waste time
and make things worse by dumping on each other.

Karen



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From: bgarfink@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (beth diane garfinkel)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Motivations for Gender-Neutral Terminology
Date: 15 Dec 1992 22:37:57 GMT
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

[Moderator's note: excessive included text trimmed.]

In <1gis4pINNt4e@agate.berkeley.edu> wagner@hp800.lasalle.edu (Jon Wagner) writes:

>I have been wondering about the motivation behind gender-neutral
>terminology.

>1) Gender-neutral terminology attempts to establish equality by using the
>	same words to describe both sexes.  In my opinion, this motivation is
>	invalid.  Aren't there other ways to achieve equality?

The idea is to INCLUDE both sexes, when one is discussing properties of
HUMAN BEINGS, male and female.

>2) Gender-neutral terminology attempts to erase the effects of the times
>	where the sexes were considered unequal.  For example, changing the
>	Bible reflects the desire to erase the effects of the male-dominated
>	Jewish (& gentile) society during which the Bible was written.
>	In this case, I feel that there may be a need to focus more on the
>	present rather than changing the past.
>	
Often, this is actually a matter of translation.  For example, in
German, there is a word Mensch; when German writings including this word
are translated into English, Mensch is almost always rendered as "man."
It actually [please correct me if I'm wrong] means "human being," and I 
believe that it's neuter, "das Mensch," in which case it would imply 
nothing about gender at all.  No doubt there are similar instances in the Bible.

>3) Gender-neutral terminology attempts to change the attitudes of today's
>	society by promoting the equality of sexes via language.  The 
>	equality of terms will affect perecption and communication, and
>	can have (subtlely?) effect on our culture.  I feel that this is
>	a worthwhile motivation.

It has been shown (through marketing surveys, for example) that language
does indeed affect perception.  For a good example of a book that uses
non-inclusive language, see Clifford Geertz, _Interpretation of
Cultures_.

								Beth
-- 
"This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays."
	-Arthur Dent, on being told that the Earth is about to blow up.


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From: mbarroso@watson.Princeton.EDU (Margarida Barroso)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Expression of attraction
Date: 13 Dec 1992 03:19:39 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <1gbs6aINNpf4@agate.berkeley.edu>, harikuma@enterprise.ifp.uiuc.edu (G. Harikumar) writes:
 
> Also, in any sport where physical fitness
> and athletism are involved, the women's
> level of play is "a zillion years behind the men's", to 
> quote John McEnroe. Women atheletes should be paid
> as much as men if and only if competitions are
> made gender-neutral. That is,  Martina Navaratilova 
> should have to beat Boris Becker before she wins
> the US Open. 

Why do you think there is heavy weight boxing, and different classes for 
different weights in boxing, rowing and other sports?? Why do you think kids
play between their own ages??? Because sport it is not only physical fitness
like you say, its about willpower and competition, and women athletes can
be within their own physical conditions as greater athletes as any men and
also in some cases technically better, although may not as strong!! Women 
sports are often different in their approach, being sometimes more
technical and competitive than men's sports. I disagree completely that 
women athlets should be pay less than men. If their sport is viewed with 
excitement and joy by so many people in the world they should be compensated
equally for their effort!! Don't tell me that women's tennis is not popular??

guida




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From: rberlin@birdland.Eng.Sun.COM (Rich Berlin)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Observations about USENET discourse
Date: 13 Dec 1992 03:14:12 GMT
Organization: SunPics -- A Sun Microsystems Business
Distribution: world
	<1g8tdhINN8dp@agate.berkeley.edu> <Bz48tr.B9D@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <Bz48tr.B9D@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> alubiw@maytag.uwaterloo.ca (Anna Lubiw) writes:

>   You seem to be making the mistake of assuming that if a person does
>   not state their emotional biases then they are being objective.
>   In fact the opposite is true: someone who is aware of and acknowledges 
>   their emotional commitments is being more objective.

Yes, Yes, YES.

I would probably have said "is more capable of being objective,"
because in my experience, being aware of and acknowledging your
emotions on an issue is necessary but not sufficient.  For me, it
usually takes work above and beyond that to discover how my emotions
are coloring my own views, and adjust for it.  (And even then, to
paraphrase Plato and innumerable others since, it's not possible for
us to *know* even then whether we're being objective!)

-- Rich
--
===============================================================================
Richard.Berlin@Eng.Sun.COM   |   The significant problems we face cannot be
			     |   solved at the same level of thinking we were
			     |   at when we created them.  -- Albert Einstein


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From: carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Expression of attraction
Date: 13 Dec 1992 02:25:41 GMT
Organization: Technophiles Inc. - Engineers with Attitude
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <1gbs6aINNpf4@agate.berkeley.edu>, harikuma@enterprise.ifp.uiuc.edu (G. Harikumar) writes:
> Women atheletes should be paid
> as much as men if and only if competitions are
> made gender-neutral. 
> Else, it is just more quotas. 

Not at all. Your statement assumes that there is a single "pay scale" for all
athletes, when it is in fact determined primarily by market conditions. Brueckner
got it right when he pointed out that woman athletes should be paid the same
as men when women's events are as popular as men's. Absolute athletic skill is
secondary. Are you willing to claim that _men's_ pay is correlated with skill
over all sports?

-- 
Alan M. Carroll          "Weren't there yams involved, too?" - J. Ockerbloom
Epoch Development Team   
Urbana Il.               "I hate shopping with the reality-impaired" - Susan


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From: wagner@hp800.lasalle.EDU (Jon Wagner)
Subject: Re: Motivations for Gender-Neutral Terminology
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: LaSalle University, Philadelphia, PA
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:15:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.180331.29781@noao.edu> muller@noao.edu (Beatrice Muller) writes:

>There are now (thanks to feminists) even attempts by government
>agencies to use gender neutral language or if this is not possible,
>to include both genders like Schueler und Schuelerinnen.

An evident example of this is the use of "-Innen" to express plurals to
explicitly include both males and females.  For example, StudentInnen is
equal to Studenten and Studentinnen.

>It does matter! And who deceides what is 'more important'?

I'm sure it does matter if enough people prompt the government to
change the language.  If we (the U.S.) had an official language, then
it might be a good idea also.

Jon

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From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.EDU (Lenore Levine)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Shaming men's sexuality
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:01:00 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

chuckies@cs.mcgill.ca (Charles J. Savoie) writes:

>Also, while it's on my mind, could someone give me an example of a
>*published* work which you believe is a female-bashing analogue to
>the phrase "at least it [penis] didn't grow on your face".  I would
>like to compare my own thoughts on the matter, and I can't think of
>any right now which degrade all women's bodies in quite the same way
>(but I'm sure it exists).   ^^^

There is a lot of material out there which degrades women's bodies,
when they do not meet some impossible standard of beauty. For example,
Prince Charles' mistress Camilla Parker-Bowles (sp?) is called
a "dog" because she is not as beautiful as Princess Di. Even Spike
Lee, whose movies speak out so courageously against racism, feels
free to talk in this manner about women. (Boy is he going to be
embarassed 20 years from now!)

I fail to see how this material is more acceptable, than material
which degrades men in the manner you described. It is really
insulting, not only to Camilla, but to all women, and to all decent-
thinking human beings.

Lenore Levine

P.S. If you are talking about work which degrades all women, there
is also Camille Paglia's comments about the ugliness of the female
genital organs. What a terrible thing for young girls to read! :-(

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