HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Path:
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 .ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kovar
From: kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar)
Subject: Be wary of proposing modifications to 'judge'
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:46:55 GMT

  A number of people are proposing that some number of modifications be
made to the judge for various reasons. Be warned that the judge program
isn't all that easy to go around modifying and some of the suggestions
are rather difficult to implement.

  Also, I think we need to find a new home for a North American judge
before we worry too much about making modifications to it.

  I will offer my services in two ways:

	1) I volunteer to become the official maintainer of the software.
	   This doesn't necessarily mean that I'll modify it much myself,
	   but I will coordinate changes to the code and maintain the
	   "official" version.

	2) If someone can find an appropriate machine, I will help run
	   a North American judge. It has to be a well connected machine
	   with a fair bit of horsepower and disk space, and it can't
	   be a machine that is liable to vanish because the official
	   owners decided that the judge is too much of an impact on it.

-David


From
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 nk.com!Think.COM!jason Thu Nov 19 13:13:50 EST 1992
Article: 132 of rec.games.diplomacy
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From: jason@Think.COM (Jason Kolb)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Ken's retirement
Date: 18 Nov 1992 18:10:20 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rose.think.com

I have only been a washington "member" for maybe two weeks,
but I must say that I have deep admiration for the creator of
the adjucator.  I must concede ignorance when it actually
comes to showing this appreciation.  My thought was that the judge
just ran on its own and the software took care of everything....
what can I say, I'm only a mechanical engineer.
I also was unaware of the T-shirt "entry fee".  I know it's not
the actual payment Ken was looking for---it just would have
been a nice gesture on the gamers point to give back to Ken what
has been given to them.
If nothing else, maybe Ken's departure will make us realize
not to take such accomplishments for granted in the future.
I know that if I received the lack of appreciation that Ken
has received, that I wouldn't want to run this thing anymore either.
I haven't a clue to how long Ken has been involved in this,
but the damage has already been done and you can't just
replace what the Washington judge meant to over a
thousand people, me included.

(A very belated) Thanks, Ken.

Jason Kolb
Thinking Machines Corporation


From
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 laremont.edu!fenris!irilyth Thu Nov 19 13:16:24 EST 1992
Article: 133 of rec.games.diplomacy
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
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From: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith)
Subject: Judge Relocation Project
Originator: irilyth@fenris
Organization: HMC Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:10:47 GMT

What the hell, I need something else to occupy my copious free time. (NOT)

I'm hereby volunteering to coordinate efforts to start up a new centralized
Diplomacy Adjudicator, with an eye to replacing judge@u.washington.edu. So
far, my list of people who might be interested in starting a new central
Adjudicator is limited to someone named Lars, who I've only heard of
indirectly through Nick Fitzpatrick. Lars, if you're out there, post a
followup or drop me a note.

>From comments from a few VAX-knowledgeable people, it sounds like a MicroVAX
II is even more archaic than I'd realized, which is probably why Ken was
able to find one he could totally devote to Diplomacy. Thus, it sounds like
the hardware requirements for running a judge would not actually be all that
severe. I suspect that the main resource drains, then, will be the network,
and, of course, the humans.

Given the fact that I've already volunteered to provide some of the human
resources, I'm now looking into the possibility of finding a home for an
Adjudicator here at Harvey Mudd. I think I may have found one; my current
plan is to download the judge source, see if I can install it, and go from
there. Nick, I know you've done this before; if you (or anyone else) have
any pointers about judge installation, feel free to send 'em on.

Meanwhile, anyone else interested in setting up a public judge is advised to
drop me a note, or post here. This is not a power grab, this is an attempt
to keep things vaguely organized; if someone else would like to take the
role of organisateur, feel free to speak up.

Forward, onward, upward, outward...
--
Josh Smith, User Support Coordinator  ::  irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA     ::  consult(std-disclaimer.pl).
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why
several of us died of tuberculosis." -Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts


From
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 !news.claremont.edu!fenris!irilyth Thu Nov 19 13:18:27 EST 1992
Article: 136 of rec.games.diplomacy
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
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 .ohio-state.edu!rutgers!uwvax!cs.wisc.edu!rawdon
From: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: Some thoughts on changes to the Adjudicator
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:34:27 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <1992Nov18.194611.3627@muddcs.claremont.edu> irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
 (Josh Smith) writes:
>Various folks have suggested policy changes to the judge; here are some
>comments.

[...]
>No unmoderated games: Not a bad idea. It's probably a lot easier to
>find replacement players for moderated games, since the moderator can beat
>the bushes looking for players. This would probably reduce the number of
>games forming at any given time, and would leave players who want to play a
>particular type of game out in the cold--if I want to play a grey press, no
>partial, crowded game with 3-day turns, I would have to go find someone
>willing to GM such a thing.

I'm not sure this would solve anything, if a couple of people decided that
they were willing to "GM" (by not doing ANYTHING in the game other than
adding their name to the list as moderator) just to let people play the
games they want to play.  The net result would be that *extra* mail from the
judge would be generated.

(One could argue that no one would want to deal with the extra mail
generated by being such a moderator.  However, one could easily set up a
mail filter to send all mail from those games to /dev/null or to a file to
be perused once a month or something.)

>No press in standard games: I'm not thrilled by this one, but I think it
>would help reduce the load on the judge. I think it's more cool in some
>ways to be able to communicate entirely with players' personae via the
>judge, but it definitely increases the amount of traffic the judge has to
>deal with.

I prefer to play games with press, precisely because I *do* have all my
mail from the judge sent to a file different from my usual mail spool.  In
fact, I usually tend NOT to answer mail for a game which is not sent as
press.

It would also complicate the logistics of sending out broadcast messages and
playing several games at once (both of which I think are Good Things about
the judge.)

--
Michael Rawdon				 rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI

"So if you ask me how do I feel inside, I could honestly tell you we've
 been taken on a very long ride."
					- Marillion, "That Time Of The Night"


From
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 .edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!vela!wchaga Thu Nov 19 13:19:56 EST 1992
Article: 143 of rec.games.diplomacy
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
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 .edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!vela!wchaga
From: wchaga@vela.acs.oakland.edu (William C. Haga)
Subject: It's not too late...
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:44:26 GMT


Perhaps it's too late to change Ken's mind, but it isn't too late
to show our appreciation.  I have not been on the net long enough
to to have seen Ken's request for T-shirts, but now that we have
all heard of it, let's send them in.  Someone please post an address
we should send them to.

Bill (wchaga@vela.acs.oakland.edu)


From
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 dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!hirai Thu Nov 19 13:20:06 EST
 1992
Article: 150 of rec.games.diplomacy
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 dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!hirai
From: hirai@cc.swarthmore.edu (Eiji Hirai)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: It's not too late...
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:56:53 GMT
Organization: Information Services, Swarthmore College, Swarthmore, PA, USA

wchaga@vela.acs.oakland.edu (William C. Haga) writes:
:Someone please post an address we should send them to.

I think it's:

	Ken Lowe
	University of Washington
	JE-30
	Seattle, WA 98195

--
hirai@cc.swarthmore.edu (Eiji Hirai)    :     :    :   :  : :: ::: :::: :::::
Unix Geek for Swarthmore College        :     :    :   :  : :: ::: :::: :::::
Information Services, Swarthmore, PA, US.       Copyright 1992 by Eiji Hirai.
I don't speak for Swarthmore College.                    All Rights Reserved.


From
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 yale!yale.edu!not-for-mail Thu Nov 19 13:20:48 EST 1992
Article: 149 of rec.games.diplomacy
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 yale!yale.edu!not-for-mail
From: randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Press in Future Judge
Date: 18 Nov 1992 19:38:37 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT
 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

I must argue strongly in favor of allowing partial white press in all
future Judges.  I, like many other people, play in more than one game.
It is immensely useful for me to have a letter that says:  Message
from Italy in game Pillbug, then just a letter that says:  From:  Ben
Lotto (yes, this is a real example).

I think if I understood Ken correctly, the problem wasn't so much in
E-mail as it was in him lacking the time/desire to run the process.

--
Joshua E. Randall                       randall-joshua@yale.edu


From
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 linac!newsaintmail Thu Nov 19 17:53:16 EST 1992
Article: 151 of rec.games.diplomacy
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
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 linac!newsaintmail
From: matt@severian.chi.il.us (Matt Crawford)
Subject: Re: Be wary of proposing modifications to 'judge'
Organization: The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:05:44 GMT


I endorse David Kovar's self-nomination as judge custodian, based on
his experience in running empire games.  I'd offer hardware to
support a new judge, but I've changed jobs to a place where the
environment is a bit more serious.  (And my home machine is behind a
20kb/s link.)
__________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford       matt@severian.chi.il.us       Java Man


From watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!torn!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!caen!positron Thu Nov 19
 18:38:22 EST 1992
Article: 154 of rec.games.diplomacy
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: positron@engin.umich.edu (Jonathan Scott Haas)
Subject: Diplomacy Adjuciator
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 10:34:08 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

I want to add my voice to the many others out there who are thanking Ken
for running the Diplomacy adjuciator for so long. Thank you, Ken, and we'll
miss you.

I don't have much doubt that a new site will be found... after all, there
are hundreds of us, and surely *someone* has a machine capable of handling
the load. But what I'm thinking is that this move provides a golden
opportunity to improve some things. Instead of a mail server, how about
an interactive system? We could cannibalize code for a MUD and make it
handle Diplomacy. What do you think of this idea? It would improve
negotiations... instead of sending letters back and forth, parties
could sit in a room and make proposal and counterproposal back and forth
in realtime. I have lots of experience writing MUD code, and I'd be
willing to take on the task... if a site can be found. What do you think?

--
__/\__  Jonathan S. Haas         | Jake liked his women the way he liked
\    /  University of Michigan   | his kiwi fruit: sweet yet tart, firm-
/_  _\  positron@engin.umich.edu | fleshed yet yielding to the touch, and
  \/                             | covered with short brown fuzzy hair.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:        UK.AC.LEEDS.GPS; 19 NOV 92 13:46:52 GMT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:45:32 GMT
Reply-To:     amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK
From:         amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK
Subject: Re: Rest in Peace, Judge. We love you!

From: Daniel LOEB <loeb@FR.GRECO-PROG.GEOCUB>

> Ken Lowe has probably contributed more to diplomacy that any other
> person except Mr. Calhammer himself!

No-one with the knowledge that Danny has about Diplomacy could possible
disagree with this comment.

> Ken never got the appreciation he deserved, and in fact was unjustly
> criticized last month. This may have been a contributing factor to his
> departure, but the load was getting too high in any case...

Yes, I guess I should apologise to Ken for having the audacity to pass
comments on his GMing style.  No-one argues that Ken hasn't done a great
deal for diplomacy over internet, it's just that I never realised that this
was sufficient reason not to pass comment on him.

Danny Loeb has also made large contributions to the internet diplomacy
community.  I guess this means that no-one can criticise him. I'll try
to remember that in future.


> I also think that it would not be unreasonable for Ken (or other
> Diplomacy Adjudicator Managers) to demand a small entry fee for
> participating. Even $10 per entry would add up to over $10,000 given
> the current load on the Judge. Is such a fee warranted? Yes, since we
> our monopolizing a computer, Ken's time and net resources.


No.


Mark
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 11:33:55 +0100
Reply-To:     karl@ims.uni-stuttgart.de
From:         Karl Dotzek <karl@ADLER.IMS.UNI-STUTTGART.DE>
Subject:      Dear Ken!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|						      		     |
|  Sender:				       |  P O S T C A R D    |
|  Karl Dotzek      		               |                     |
|  Stuttgart                                   |                     |
|  Germany     			               |                     |
|                        		       |                     |
|  Big					       |                     |
|                                              |                     |
| TTTTTT HH  HH   AA   NN  NN KK  KK  SSSS     !                     |
|   TT   HH  HH  AAAA  NNN NN KK KK  SS        !  		     |
|   TT   HHHHHH AA  AA NNNNNN KKKK    SSSS     !    Ken Lowe         |
|   TT   HH  HH AAAAAA NN NNN KK KK      SS    !    Washington       |
|   TT   HH  HH AA  AA NN  NN KK  KK  SSSS     !    U.S.A.           |
|                                                                    |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jdr@U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Judge Dash Request)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Subject: Re: Rest in Peace, Judge. We love you!
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:46:58 GMT
Reply-To: Judge Dash Request <jdr@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

> Ken never got the appreciation he deserved, and in fact was unjustly
> criticized last month. This may have been a contributing factor to his
> departure, but the load was getting too high in any case...

Over the Ounce squabble?  No, I thought it was rather humorous, actually.
The main factor is the fact that the system running the judge is totally
saturated and cannot continue at current rates.  The stack of mail that
I haven't been able to get to is another pretty significant factor as
well.

> Obviously for the moment game creation must be stopped in Washington.
> But I hope it will resume (taking into account some of the above
> suggestions) when the number of ongoing games falls down to 75.

No new game creations will be allowed for the time being.  My guess is
that the load will have died off enough by the June timeframe to make it
possible to allow new games to be started.  I suspect that creation will
be limited to respected moderators, though.

> I also think that it would not be unreasonable for Ken (or other
> Diplomacy Adjudicator Managers) to demand a small entry fee for
> participating. Even $10 per entry would add up to over $10,000 given
> the current load on the Judge. Is such a fee warranted?

I cannot accept monetary compensation for the judge due to the nature
of its development.  However, here's my canned kudos response:

If you're looking for a way to show your gratitude, I will gladly
accept a tee-shirt with your school or company logo or some other
identifying design from your part of the world.  Size medium to large
(either a large medium or a small large), colored rather than white
background, basic gray is good.  If there are other judge clientele
from your site you should contact them to see if they want to go in
on it with you before doing something on your own.  Then again, a
simple postcard saying "thanks" is sufficient as well.

-Ken Lowe
 University of Washington JE-30
 4545 15th Ave NE;  Suite 300
 Seattle,  WA  98195
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:41:27 EST
Reply-To:     Rick Desper <desper@MATH.RUTGERS.EDU>
From:         Rick Desper <desper@MATH.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject:      More appreciation of Ken Lowe

	I can certainly understand Ken's desire to curb game creation.
The rate at which games have been forming has been phenomenal lately,
and we have all observed the effect that this has had on the speed of
Judge.
	Maybe it would be like shutting the barn door after the horses
have left, but does anybody have Ken Lowe's address?  He is definitely
appreciated here at Rutgers, though I must confess I did not send him
a postcard (I stupidly thought he would get plenty anyway :-(
	As for the suggestions made by Joan Artes and Danny Loeb:
	I agree that players should not join multitudes of games.  I
personally think that I cannot play more than two or three games well
at any given time.  However, one has to also account for takeovers of
weak positions somehow.  While I am currently involved in 7 games (oh,
the shame!) at least two of them are takeovers of 1- or 2- center
positions which require little effort on my part, and which ought to
be played by somebody, just to keep the games in question moving at a
decent speed.
	I would support an informal limit of 2-3 games, and will try
to observe that myself, once the games I am currently playing in reach
their conclusions.
	Regarding Danny Loeb's suggestions:  if too much press
communication is a problem, perhaps players in non-gunboat games could
communicate privately, without using Judge?  I agree with the entry
fee suggestion, and with the call for control of game entry by GM's.
I would like to point out that with judicious use of nolist and
control of the dedication requirements, a GM can effectively control
who enters his game to a large extent, as I did with the recent
creation of the high-dedication game Lion.  I think in general GM's
ought to utilize the dedication flag, as I really worry about players
who have < -200 dedication rating.  Even making a weak hurdle of -10
pointss in Cheetah gave me seven players who stuck with the game.
	Hopefully, somebody else with computer expertise (I do math,
not CS) will be willing to set up a Judge.  Of course, getting one's
sponsoring organization to be willing to accept the headaches
associated with a Judge might be quite a trick.  We certainly need
another Judge in North America, considering the pace at which games
have been forming.  I would contend that these games are not all with
returning players, either.  A perusal of the player lists for many of
the Ken Lowe games will show you that many games with five or six
players with 0 dedication ratings - a sign of newcomers.
	And hopefully, if we all let Ken know how much his efforts are
appreciated, he will consider allowing creation of new games in
Washington if the game load drops to a reasonable level, with a cap
built in somehow to the number of games, so it does not become
excessive again.
				Rick Desper
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:08:05 -0500
Reply-To:     George Boyce <george@NR-TECH.CIT.CORNELL.EDU>
From:         George Boyce <george@NR-TECH.CIT.CORNELL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Question From bstaker
              23 Nov 92 12:47:45 EST."
              <9211231751.AA02648@mitchell.cit.cornell.edu>

Not to argue, but...

> If you think about this for a while, it becomes clear that the Suez is
> ridiculous.

Just because it is unique doesn't mean it is ridiculous.

> I think things would be better if Egypt did not border
> Jordan at all, which could then border the Suez.

Just because you make it conform, doesn't make the game play better. I
think being able to move units east-west and north-south at the same
time is neat. Removing the land bridge would handicap Turkey's
progress into Africa which could make Italy much stronger.

>					Rick
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU