HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gturk@bnr.ca (Glenn Turk P925)
Subject: Re: YAGR (ball in tree)
Reply-To: gturk@brtph617.bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:52:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.123529.25007@enea.se>, tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) writes:

[stuff about identifying (or not) a ball stuck in a tree - deleted]

|> 
|> Olazabal had the same situation on the European Tour. However, saying that
|> he was completely sure the ball stopped in the three and being backed by
|> several people, he just got an unplayable lie!
|> 
|> The officials later accnowledged their mistake, but Olazabal's score
|> wasn't changed. Even the TV commentators knew better and gasped when they
|> heard about the "unplayable lie" decision...
|> 

Amazing, it happened to Jose on the European Tour too??? :->
I am certain this was at Sawgrass this spring in the Tournament
Players Championship. (that is what they called it this year isn't it?)

Everything else is true.  I ball was seen in a palm tree, officials
took the crowd's word that it was his and Jose went on to finish
the hole under this ruling.  After the ball that was sighted was
dislodged, it was found not to be his, but Jose, having received the
ruling was no longer subject to DQ for a wrong scorecard.

The mistake was that the officials failed to make sure
the ball was POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED.
-- 
Glenn R. Turk
email: gturk@brtph617.bnr.ca
(919)991-8593 ESN 294-8593
Bell Northern Research, RTP, NC
From: tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Donna Andrews Penalty (Was: Pulling Flagstick)
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:30:58 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

cs@met.ed.ac.uk (C Smith) writes:
- 
- |> In article <1992Jul25.145924.2831@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov> sheldon@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Roger Sheldon - AISS) writes:
- |> >
- |> >And how about this girl in the US Women's Open who got cheated
- |> >out of a stroke by a stupid, unfair rule.  I don't know her
- |> >name, but she mistakenly tapped the ball while setting up
- |> >her putt -- she, of course, took the one stroke penalty.
- |> >But after finishing the round, the officials slapped her
- |> >with a second penalty stroke for not replacing the ball
- |> >to where it was before she accidentally hit it.
- |> >
- |> >That's totally unfair.  What possible advantage could there
- |> >be to leaving the ball where she accidentally hit it?  She
- |> >already got penalized one stroke.
- |> 
- |> Well, the problem was is that she didn't mean to hit the ball.  By definition,
-   .....
- 
- 	The one thing that really annoys me about golf is the
- inflexibility of the rules and the sad old gits who get endlessly
- worked up about them. 
- 	Anyone with two brain cells to rub together would realise
- that a two stroke penalty for this sort of thing is way off the
- mark.	You'd get the same penalty if you'd taken a big swipe at it
- and sent the ball out of bounds.
- 	The fact that a rule is put in the book to stop some form 
- of cheating shouldnt mean that it has to be applied when that 
- wasnt the intention and no advantage gained.  Especially in a big
- competition where there are plenty of officials available to give 
- an unbiased interpretation.
- 	Who'd want to be an official?  Unfortunately far too many
- folk.
- 	Is golf the only sport littered with daft rules?
- 
- ----------------------
-  Campbell Smith      
-  remote sensing
-  edinburgh university
-  cs@uk.ac.ed.met     
-                      

This is similar to another situation:

You have a bad lie in the rough under a tree. You try to hit the ball
to the fairway, but misses it entirely and only manages to cut of a
branch of the tree. Should this count as one or two strokes? (if you
don't try to hit the ball, but only makes a practice swing, it will
cost you two strokes for cutting the branch)

-- 
=============================================================================
 Tommy Petersson              tope@enea.se              Enea Data AB, Sweden
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: menendez@swbatl.sbc.com (Bob Menendez - 235-3146)
Subject: Re: TV coverage (Was: Cook blows British Open)
Organization: Southwestern Bell Advanced Technology Laboratory
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 12:58:57 GMT


>>I found another thing disappointing. In previous Opens we've 
>>been treated to the BBC's coverage. This year it was the network
>>coverage and it was quite sad by comparison.  ...

>>  ...  the TV coverage was generally crap.  
 
>> ...  the networks should take polls on what announcers people like.
>>  I personally thought Jim McKay's comments were pathetic --
>
>  My vote is for Gary McCord, I really enjoyed his commentary at the Masters.
>
One of the magazines, either Golf or Golf Digest, had a survey form
last month  regarding tv coverage of golf.  It covers announcers, analysts,
networks and has places for what you like and don't like.  They say
they'll provide the results to the networks.  
I encourage anyone with strong opinions to fill it out and send it in.

My form says "Tell the networks to keep Brent Mussburger away from
 golf (and baseball)" and since he's on ABC, I voted it the network 
that should never be allowed to cover golf.  BTW, they did the US and
British Opens.


-- 

:-)
menendez@swbatl.sbc.com
NOTICE:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: boncelet@lionel.ee.udel.edu (Charles Boncelet)
Subject: Re: Donna Andrews penalty (Was Re: How to pull out the flagstick....)
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:14:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.153446.26095@sequent.com> john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght) writes:
>sheldon@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Roger Sheldon - AISS) writes:
>
>>And how about this girl in the US Women's Open who got cheated
>>out of a stroke by a stupid, unfair rule.  I don't know her
>>name, but she mistakenly tapped the ball while setting up
>>her putt -- she, of course, took the one stroke penalty.
>>But after finishing the round, the officials slapped her
>>with a second penalty stroke for not replacing the ball
>>to where it was before she accidentally hit it.
>
...

>She felt that since the club head was moving forward when it hit the ball
>it was a stroke, but the rule also says you must have intended to hit the
>ball, which she admitted she had not.  Therefore, instead of being a stroke
>(which is what she thought it was), it was a violation of Rule 18 and she
>had to replace it.
>
>>That's totally unfair.  What possible advantage could there
>>be to leaving the ball where she accidentally hit it?  She
>>already got penalized one stroke.
>
>It is not unfair.  Before she tapped it, it was up against the high rough.
>After that it was a much simpler putt, because there wasn't a lot of high
>grass behind it.  But, it doesn't even matter that it was made easier.  The
...

I don't understand the rationale for requiring "intent" on the shot.
She addressed the ball and hit it WITH HER CLUB.  Why not count it as
a stroke, whether she intended to hit it or not.  As with any other
shot, if you do not like the result, you can declare it an unplayable
lie and take the stroke and distance penalty.

If the ball is accidentally moved by other than a golf club, keep the
same penalty and require the ball to be replaced.  This eliminates the
"hand wedge".

(As for people who accidentally knock the ball off the tee, provide 
an exception.  Ball accidentally knocked off the tee does not count as 
a stroke and may be replaced.)

This seems to me the proper way to treat accidental hits.

	Charlie Boncelet <boncelet@udel.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: gattuso@ssd.comm.mot.com (Christopher Gattuso)
Subject: Re: Cook blows British Open
Organization: Motorola LMPS
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:13:06 GMT
Keywords: n

>I found another thing disappointing. In previous Opens we've 
>been treated to the BBC's coverage. This year it was the network
>coverage and it was quite sad by comparison. You get to see the
>top 4 or 5 competitors most of the time. A lot of closeups
>(who cares) of their faces and lengthy delays while we wait for 
>putts. Occasionally you tapes of hole in ones and shots of 
>Greg Norman once in a while.
>
>It was done the way it's done each week on the PGA coverage.
>
>Too much putting and too few competitors shown.

This is not true.  ABC used the BBC Coverage but with different announcers.
This was mentioned at the beginning of the telecast, because they were 
amazed at the 200 ft. crane tower they used to follow tee shots.
From: userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: YAGR (ball in tree)
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:03:23 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada

sercely@convex.com (Ron Sercely) writes:

>In article <ILH.92Jul30095924@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu> ilh@lcs.mit.edu writes:
>>Anybody know what happens if your ball stops in a tree?  Do you treat
>>is an an unplayable lie?  Can you shake the tree?
>>
>>I seem to remember something in the US Open at Pebble Beach with Faldo
>>shaking or climbing a tree to get his ball.  I never found out how it
>>all worked out.
>>

>If your ball is in the tree, you either play it as it lies, or you declare it
>unplayable.  If you were to simply shake the tree and the ball falls to the ground,
>there would be a 2 stroke penalty for breach of Rule 13 for improving your lie.

>However, shaking the tree is often the appropriate thing to do!  Announce to
>your fellow competitor that IF that is your ball in the tree you are declaring
>it unplayable. Now the ball is out of play, and you may move the ball without
>further penalty.  The purpose of having the ball fall is so that you can
>identify the ball as yours!  Simply seeing a ball in a tree where you think
>your ball is is NOT identifing the ball, unless you can truly see markings that
>allow you identify it as "the ball" in play, not a ball.

    Last weekend during the rain delay in the Women's US Open, they showed
some footage from the Men's US Open which included Faldo's experience with
the ball in the tree. He did shake it, to see if he could dislodge it, but
he also confirmed with an official that he *could* shake it without
penalty. The official said "since if it falls out you are going to be
declaring it 'unplayable', you won't be penalized". In the end, I think that
the ball did *not* fall out, and Faldo had to declare it lost and go back
to hit another one under the stroke-and-distance penalty.
 

Dave Halliwell
Department of Geography
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: CLARK@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (William Clark)
Subject: Re: cook blows the open
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:40:29 GMT

Cook only played 2 British Opens in the last 12 years because he
was not exempt from qualifying in the other 10. It would probably
have been good for him to have tried to qualify, a la Crenshaw,
Wadkins, et al.

William Clark
'
From: David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com (David Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Grip Removal Idea
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:32:00 GMT

In Reply to: Perry Ramsey

PR>I've discovered a method to remove grips without destroying them.
PR>It doesn't require any fancy tools.

Well,  I  tried  your  method  on  an old clunker club and grip.  No
success.  I could get the grip to pull back from the tape inside  on
only  half the grip.  The grip would bulge out quite a bit from this
one half.  I tried to let the solvent "work in".  Never  got  it  to
blow out the other end though.  I was using the "carbo- chlor"
solvent which is the non-flammable stuff for applying  grips.   What
solvent did you use?

I see in the Golfworks catalog, they  recommend  naptha  or  mineral
spirits  for grip removal solvent.  (Wouldn't these make the grips a
bit smelly?).

Any help appreciated. I would much prefer to use this method
vs. syringes!

                                   o o o o
                                  o        o
From Minnesota--highest per capita of golf nuts in the Nation!
David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com      o            o
                              o               o      |18>
____________________________o_________________ o o o |_________
___
 X SLMR 2.0 X --T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E--

 * Origin: Dark Knight's Table (1:282/31)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght)
Subject: Re: one more rules question
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 21:27:20 GMT

scramer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steve K Cramer) writes:

>In article <1992Jul30.111750.6844@enea.se> tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) write
>s:
>[stuff about a moving ball deleted]
>>
>>Golf rules, how strange they sometimes seem to be, are normally logical.
>>I, however, fail to see the logic in a penalty in the situation where you
>>replace a marked ball, address it and a gusty wind blows it off the green...

>Tommy, You have to get off this "logic" thing. There is no "logic" to golf. 
>It's called "Rub o' the Green". It sucks, but that's what makes golf such an 
>interesting game. It's like life [lecture warning!]. You think things are going
>along just fine, and WHAP! You get hit upside the head. It's not your fault, it
>just happens. Rub o' the Green! :-)

Yes, as it was said numerous times at the Rules of Golf Workshop:
"Hard luck as to start somewhere."

--
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
-- 
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!"
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
From: rz64938@mystic.d50.lilly.com (David W. Crumbacher)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: practice makes perfect????
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:25:32 GMT
Reply-To: rz64938@mystic.d50.lilly.com (David W. Crumbacher)
Distribution: world,local


In article <13152.2a76a353@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>, andereck@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
|>
|>I have a question/problem regarding improvement or lack of it through
|>practice.  I am currently about a 10 hcp player who peaked at about 7
|>a couple of years ago.  Whenever I go out to practice, which is maybe 4
|>times per week, I start out hitting reasonable, but not great, shots.
|>Then I begin working on finding some "swing key" that gets me hitting
|>much better shots.  Normally, however, this only works well for a few
|>swings and then I either somehow return to the previous problem or find
|>some new, more creative way to hit mediocre shots.  If I do happen to 
|>find a key thought that works for a lot of shots that day it seems that
|>the next time I come out that thought doesn't work at all, period.  I
|>simply cannot seem to find anything that works for a reasonable length of
|>time.  Is this a common problem?  Is there any hope?  All suggestions
|>are welcome.
|>
|>Dave Andereck
|>andereck@mps.ohio-state.edu
|>

I think the basic idea of what you're doing is good (frequent practice).
I have found that maintaining a good swing comes from a *total* 110%
confidence that the ball is going to go where you want it.  It's more
than just physical practice.  It's mental practice.  You have to have
total concentration and visualize the ball flying to your target.

I really believe that the physics of the swing will only get you so far.
The rest comes from mental toughness, IMHO.  Look at some of the swings
on the tour (Trevino, Chi Chi, Palmer, many others that I can't
think of right now...) - their swings are by no means pretty.  Of course
they all have the basics of the swing grooved, but the quality of their
mental game is what sets them apart from the rest.

+--------------------------------------------------------------+---------+
| David W. Crumbacher            |  e-mail: dwc@lilly.com      |         |
| Scientific Information Systems |  Phone : (317) 276-5345     |    o    |
| Lilly Research Laboratories    |  FAX   : (317) 276-4127     |   (     |
| Eli Lilly and Company          |  These are my own opinions, |   [\.   |
| Indianapolis, Indiana 46285    |  not my employer's.         |         |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+---------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: martin@chiton.ucsd.edu (Martin Olivera)
Subject: Re: ABC Mud mouths (was Re: TV coverage )
Organization: UCSD - Scripps Inst. of Oceanogr. - MPL
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:44:05 GMT

I'd like to add to my previous posting that I actually like the BBC coverage
(announcers included) the best. We get to see, through Prime Ticket here in 
San Diego, tapes of selected European PGA Tournaments. Even the "summarized"
versions are well edited. The announcers let the players and their game be the
stars of the shows. Pretty good IMHO.

Martin
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: bohdan.kiszczuk@rose.com (bohdan kiszczuk)
Subject: greenhorn (not) learn
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:29:02 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 07-30-92 00:09
E(> From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
E(> Subject: greenhorn (not) learning to swing
E(> Date: 29 Jul 92 00:32:41 GMT
E(> Lines: 28
E(> 
E(> I am somewhat exasperated.  Think back to when you picked up a golf
E(> club for the first time in your life.  How long did it take you before
E(> you could hit the ball reliably, say half the time.  I don't mean hit
E(> it far, or hit it straight, or (heaven forbid!) with some particular
E(> spin.  Just a solid, clean hit.  If you say it took you five years,
E(> then I'll just pack it in right now and save myself a lot of grief.
E(> 
E(> I came into possession of a #3 wood about a month ago.  I got myself
E(> Tom Watson's book "Getting Back to Basics".  I followed the nice
E(> pictures of how to hold the club, and started to practice hitting
E(> whiffle balls off a tee.  I tried almost every evening.  I still can't
E(> do it.  About one in twenty swings connect with a satisfying "crack", and 
E(> the ball soars high and far.  What a joyous feeling!  But more often I
E(> skim the top of the ball and send it tearing 6 feet through the grass,
E(> or hit it with the heel of the club or the toe and send it off at 45
E(> degrees, or miss the ball altogether.  Can you imagine how depressing
E(> it is?
E(> 
E(> I thought what I'd do is learn to hit whiffle balls reliably, and then
E(> find a driving range and get some instruction on real balls.  But how
E(> can I go to a driving range when I can't even get the club on the ball?
E(> How shameful.  I have a friend who golfs, and when I told him my problem
E(> he offered to sell me a "nice persimmon driver" for $200!  I can't imagine
E(> that is my problem though.  I'm sure Arnold Palmer wouldn't have any
E(> trouble hitting whiffle balls with my humble #3 wood, old and disheveled 
E(> as it is.  Any words of wisdom?
E(> 
E(> Robert Enenkel

            FIND A GOOD PRO AND TAKE SOME LESSONS. Old habits are hard 
to break (re: swing). Do it now.........
---
   RoseReader 1.70 R001028: ======== bohdan.kiszczuk@rose.com ===========
   RoseMail 1.70: RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: bill@unislc.uucp (William Denlein)
Subject: Re: clone clubs?
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:26:23 GMT

straw@cam.nist.gov (Mike_Strawbridge_x3852) writes:
: I have followed the disussions recently on assembling your own clubs and
: I'm thinking of giving it a try myself.
: 
: Also I recall a recent posting asking which clubs most closely resemble
: Pings. One response was that a club called the "Legend Plus" is intended
: to be a Ping clone.
: 
: I would like to hear about other clubs (either components or assembled sets)
: that are less expensive clones of some of the popular (and expensive) brands.
: 
: Thanks.
: 
: -----------------------------------------------------------------------
: NAME:   Michael Strawbridge                     TELE: (301) 975-3852
: USMAIL: National Institute of Standards         ARPA: straw@cam.nist.gov
:                 and Technology                  UUCP: uunet!cme-durer!straw
:         Rm. B-146, Bldg. 225
:         Gaithersburg, MD  20899

Several years ago, Unita Golf in Salt Lake City recommended a set of Ping
clones called Pinseekers. I bought a set for my wife and she seemed 
extremely happy with them. When the new Ping Zings came out I convinced
myself it was time to get rid of my Pinacles and get a set of Pings. 
I just couldn't however convince myself to lay out the money they wanted
for the Zings. Again Uinta recommended the Pinseekers.

After hitting the Zings, and the Pinseekers, I bought the clones. I have
never been as happy with a set of clubs as I am with the Pinseekers. My
shots are longer and much straighter than ever.  The Pinseekers have the 
same square groves as the Pings and seem to give me, an amateur, the extra
spin I need to stop the ball on the green. I know about the controversy
between the v-grooves and square-grooves but I'm not on the tour, I play
for the enjoyment, not the big bucks.

The set I bought  came with the 3-PW and I added the SW and 2-iron. They
cost me less than $400 (not including matching 1-3-5 woods). I'd recommend
them to anyone. After seeing mine, a friend of mine bought himself a set 
and is as happy about them as I am.

I haven't seen Pinseekers many places. If you're interested I suggest
you contact Uinta Golf, 560 East 2100 South, Salt lake City, UT,
84106, (801) 487-8233.

Good luck.
From: ewing@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (David Ewing)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Remembering golfers (was: Cook blows British Open)
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:26:13 GMT
Organization: NCR Corp., Network Products - San Diego

In <1992Jul20.222938.11376@Arco.COM> cgp@Arco.COM (Chris Phillips  (214) 754-6419) writes:

>1a) Those who have won all 4 majors
>	Nicklaus, Player, Hogan, Sarazen, Jones

Slight clarification -- The first four each won all four professional majors
(Masters, U.S. Open, British Open, PGA).  Bobby Jones' slam was consisted of
the U.S. Open, the U.S. Amateur, the British Open, the British Amateur.

Dave Ewing
-- 
*************************************************************************
David A. Ewing                             David.Ewing@SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: jean-k@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Jean Kalich)
Subject: WOMEN'S U.S. OPEN
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 15:39:32 GMT

CAN ANYONE TELL ME THE SATUS OF THE WOMEN'S U.S. OPEN PLAYOFF?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf