Via:      UK.AC.SOLENT; 14 DEC 92 16:17:16 GMT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:18:00 GMT
From:         CAROL L <Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: DELIVERANCE MINISTRIES

Forgive my use of the word "case" in this - of course I am talking
of an individual and the situation(s) they find themselves in.  It
is just a short hand I find easier to use when trying not to implicate
those individuals.

Also note, that I take no credit for any of this.  I am merely a
mortal trying to deal with the "supernatural"


Date:        Sat, 12 Dec 1992 09:29:37 CDT
From:        Ian Williams <iwilliam@COM.ORACLE.AU>
> I have to deliver the communion to the front of the church one sunday
> in four.  Does that count as a deliverance ministry??

You bet!  But, not the sort of "deliverance ministry" Andie was talking
about.

Date:        Sat, 12 Dec 1992 09:29:37 CDT
From:        Ian Williams <iwilliam@COM.ORACLE.AU>
> Seriously though, we have to stop thinking this way that only some of us
> have some sort of 'ministry' that makes us usefull in rebuking the enemy..
>
> JUST like the ministry of reconciliation,  we ALL have the ministry of
> delivering people from the bondage of the spiritual darkness! We are ALL
> called to warfare against the devourer!
>
> Yes, I have a dliverance ministry, but if you are saved, so do you.

Yes.  With all my heart, I agree.

Yet, I note also what St Paul said about some of us being given
specialist skills - some to preach, some to heal... as James says..

Date:     Sat, 12 Dec 1992 09:21:55 GMT
From:     James Tauber <jtauber@AU.EDU.UWA.TARTARUS>
> Jesus does it all, and while some people may find themselves delivering more
> than others, any born-again follower of Jesus Christ can call on the authority
> given them by Him to set people free and chances are, you know a lot of a
> people who need that freedom now.

But remember because some may be "Specialists", we all had the same
basic commissioning as a "GP."  Each of us is part of the Body.

For those of you who don't understand the metaphor - it is to do
with the Health Service here - a GP is a doctor in General Practice
(sometimes called a Family Doctor) the "Specialist" is often a
consultant who will see more of a particular type of case and has
extra training in that area to deal with them.



Date:     Sat, 12 Dec 1992 09:21:55 GMT
From:     James Tauber <jtauber@AU.EDU.UWA.TARTARUS>
> The sign to look for is if anyone is unfree about something. In Christ we
> are completely free. If someone is scared of a person or place or is not
> free to do something, they need to be loosed of it.   If someone is having
> nightmares they need to be loosed of them. Always try to get to heart of the
> decision made. Remember also, when dealing with someone who is actually
> being controlled by a demon, your battle is against the demon and not the
> person. The demon may try to stop you with all sorts of means. I've had
> people hit me, swear at me and vomit. Another favourite is shaking the
> person . Often such things can be stopped by shouting `In the name of Jesus
> be quiet!'.

In many of the cases I have seen it is not so much that person's own
decision but one forced on them .... perhaps their parents when they
were children.  Or the rusult of the situation they were born into or
something that was "done to them"  and beyond their control.

Be careful also how you interpret "free."  What is free in God's and a
believer's eyes is not always what the world sees as freedom.

I agree with James in that there is always a deeper problem.  It is
the root cause that the ministry of deliverance and reconcilitaion is
all about.

Incidently - reconciliation is often a major part of the job.

A word of comfort and one of warning.  Demonic possession is actually
quite rare - broken heartedness is not.  Deal with the brokeness of
God's image before contemplating deliverance.

Another word of warning.  Subjecting someone to a "casting out" when
they are not, in fact, possessed is dangerous to their psycological
well-being.  It is horrible to be told that there is something in you
that is intrinsically evil when you are merely mortal with things going
wrong about you. You end up hating yourself. To return to the medical
metaphor, be sure of the diagnosis before treatment commences.  If in
doubt don't put any one through it - ask God for a cleansing instead
- He is more than capable of sorting it.

I may be accused of not attacking the enemy hard enough, if that is
so, may God forgive me and pick up the ones I've missed.  I have
always had as my central concern the healing of the individual,
body, soul and mind and that is the only plea I can make.


But to answer Andie's original questions .....

>I would like to know if any of you out there are involved
>in deliverance ministries. I am very interested in this, ie.,
>is it difficult, what is involved, etc.

It is near impossible to give a short answer and if you are
really interested, I suggest you find someone local with a
fair bit of experience to spend some time talking with.  (Try
talking your minister for pointers he/she will probably have
some contacts.  Also try talking to the local Anglican or
Roman Catholic or Orthodox.  Each of us has our own experiences
and may be biased because of them - don't let one person's
bias mislead you.

Yes, it is difficult.  Sometimes it is easier than others.  You
are dealing with people at their most vunerable and their most
spiritual level.  At the same time you have to deal with "the
enemy" at a point where "he" feels strong because he has a
foot hold in a persons life.  Getting the balance is hard.
It is draining.  Allowing yourself to be used as a channel by
God, loving the other person/people and dealing with the
problem takes a lot out of you.  You need to be rested, aware
and in tune with God.  You also need the armour of salvation St.
Paul talks of (breast plate of faith, sword of the Word, etc.)
Of course, prayers of protection and dedication to God become
an automatic preamble after a while.  My partner in ministry,
has a habit of washing her hands - it is symbolic and it reminds
her to pray first.  Me ? I tend to pray on the threshhold of the
house, room, whatever. It works for us.

What's involved ?  A bloody fight between God and the devil.
Or a person with mental illness who needs medical help.  Or
just someone who isn't happy with their life.  It could start
either way.  Deliverance is part of the Healing/Conselling/Caring
role of the church.  It can not to be taken in issolation.  The
first task is learning to love the person and, with God's help
establish what is wrong, praying with them, console and witness,
counsel, lay hands on them and then if it is needed (it rarely
is) ask God to "cleanse them" or do the scriptural casting out
of demons.  Some people, although "clean", will want you to ask
God to cleanse them for their own reassurance.  That's fine.

What is "cleansing" ?  A friend descibed it as asking God to wash
them in Christ's Blood and with the abundance of it, carry away
all that is evil.  I can just see this waterfall of God's Grace
some resting with the person, the remainer washing those little
demons off their feet and out of that individuals life.  It is
a prayer said aloud.  (I always wondered why demons are so deaf
you are supposed to shout at them - It tends to frighten the people
but not the demons from my experience!)

I don't profess to understand what it is all about.  I know that
the supernatural parts of our lives have Good and Evil tied up in
them.  I know that the Evil part has had control of others.  I know
also that I have been in a position where that Evil has been
overturned in someone else's life and that has been attributed to
God and prayers to Him.  From what I know of Jesus, that sounds like
Him.  I know doubters call it superstitious clap trap and I can see
why - It is so complex and so mixed up in other things.

Still, I can only speak from experience and J.C. isn't a bad boss !!!!

Sorry, can't be too serious for too long today ... it is down to the
planning that is going on for the Boss' Birthday later this month !

Carol A Long,  Southampton Institute of Higher Education, England
        email     :  Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
DISCLAIMER - merely musings unless otherwise stated.
** Wishing one and all a happy, blessed and wonderful Humbug Season **