Organization: Rohm and Haas Company
Date: Wednesday, 8 Apr 1992 17:37:57 EDT
From: Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Liking Indiana (was Re: Sick'n'tired of the "Troubles"

In article <1992Apr8.020312.6688@macc.wisc.edu>, oconnell@vms.macc.wisc.edu
(Kevin Patrick O'Connell) says:
>
>In article <92097.080553RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET>, Aengus Lawlor
><RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET> writes...
>
>>In article <1992Apr4.212857.25332@macc.wisc.edu>, oconnell@vms.macc.wisc.edu
>>(Kevin Patrick O'Connell) says:
>>>
>>>I think Suze has hit the nail on the head.  Continue to read scc for
>>>the articles that ARE about culture, music, literature, Flann O'Brien
>>>:-), and so on, and send the rest out the chute.  I agree with the
>>>first poster in this thread.  The reason I asked some time ago about
>>>how people know whether folks are Catholic or Protestant was to see a
>>>different twist on the argument; that is, to see if folks would run
>>>with the idea that maybe a bunch of white Anglo Christians who grew up
>>>in Ireland may have less to fight about today than they think.  Ah,
>>>well.  Any Crusikeen Lawn fans out there?  I must admit that much of
>>>it is over my head, having to do with various foibles of DeValera, and
>>>some of it in Latin (!), but the style of writing is always a joy to
>>>read!
>>>
>>>See ya,
>>>
>>>Kevin
>>And maybe if you actually bothered to read some of the postings on that
>>trivial and boring subject of Northern Ireland, you might have learnt that
>>"Catholic" and "Protestant" are only synonyms for Nationalist/Republican and
>>Unionist/Loyalist. When used in the context of Northern Ireland, they aren't
>>always religious labels. Dismissing them with pious and patronising
>references
>>to 'Anglo Christians' takes either ignorance or gall.
>>
>>(And from somebody who blithely admits that the various foibles of Dev are
>>over his head!)
>>
>>Aengus
>>--
>>RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
>>RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
>>"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
>>"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"
>
>I'd like to apologize for what has been taken as a patronizing tone
>towards the discussion of the strife in NI.  I had no intention of
>being patronizing or pious; I have essentially no experience of
>Ireland, and the predominant topic here is the conflict in NI, and I
>would like to see other topics discussed.
While various threads relating to Northern Ireland have been carried on
here in the past 3 months or so, there had been little or no mention of
the subject in the previous 6 or 9 months. Postings expire after 7 days
at this site, but my impression is that discussion of Scottish independence
has been the predominant topic in the last month or 2. Netnews is a very
open forum, and debate about Northern Ireland, and/or Scottish independence
in no way impinges on your right to attempt (unsuccessfully) to start a
thread about Flann O'Brian.

> Why should I not "blithely
>admit" that I am not familiar with "Dev?"  Yes, the strife in NI touches
>many aspects of Irish life, I might assume, but surely that isn't all
>there is, and the life of DeValera is not common fare in US schools or
>the US press.
There's nothing wrong about an American admitting he knows very little
about Dev. (In Ireland, you don't need to put "" around Dev. There was
only one Dev!) But it's a bit rich to be pontificating about how silly
the whole Northern Ireland conflict is in the same post.

> And, as usual, it seems that here, as well as in the
>real world, the debate over NI is defined by the most extreme
>viewpoints.  Are there any groups/individuals here or there whose main
>task is building ties between the Nationalist and Loyalist
>communities?
There are many, but they're unlikely to be on the internet. But any
progress requires that each side be made aware of the errors in their
preconcieved notions. It isn't particularly productive to get large
groups of Nationalist and Unionist together for an argument, but it
can be productive in a forum such as this, where at most, peoples feelings
can be hurt. I had hoped that some people might have learned from recent
postings that "catholic" and "protestant" are inappropriate labels in the
context of Northern Ireland, but, at least in your case, is a flase hope.
>
>About being a white Anglo Christian--I happen to be one.  If ignorance
>and gall are my only choices, I choose both.  Ignorance I addressed
>above, and my choice to express an honest opinion based on what little I do
>know (as well as my taste for particular topics of discussion)
>evidently constitutes gall.
"Ignorance and gall" are your only choices if you insist on being
"pious and patronising". It is galling that one who admits to ignorance
seeks to dismiss the experience of others. Your taste for particular
topics for discussion is neither nor there, unless you feel that we would
all be better employed following up on threads that you have a taste for.
>
>Kevin
>
Aengus
--
RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"