From: medic@milton.u.washington.edu (Travis Lauricella)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Respect
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:25:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.medic.719263513
Organization: University of Washington

Stan Krieger writes:

> Sometimes... the problem is with just a bad group.

This is true.  My troop has a clique of about four scouts who have been
continually disruptive during meetings for the last year.  I have just 
recently split the troop into two patrols (the size of the troop increased
from 8 to 15 boys in a month), and in doing so, split the clique.  This will
hopefully solve some of the problem.

> [regarding violation of Oath and/or Law] ... what I've done in cases of
> clear violations ... is to make the boy write a 200 word (i.e., one page)
> essay on the point that he violated ...

And Jerry W. Montgomery II writes, regarding the ceremony disruptions:

> YOU know why these ceremonies should be taken seriously.  Do they?

While the adult leaders of the troop have threatened this many times, it was
just last week that I enforced it for the first time.  Without going into too
much detail, a scout, Kai, had disobeyed me on a bicycle hike, putting both
himself and another scout in a dangerous situation.  He wrote the report, but
refused to stay for the meeting after the hike.

As to the ceremonies, perhaps I haven't made it clear enough as to what I 
expect and why.  I will work on this.

Shawn adds:

> ... redo the opening ceremony until it is done correctly ... until you are
> satisfied.

A good suggestion.  This will be tried out at the next meeting.
Stan also writes:

> Finally, I don't know if the age of the Troop leaders might be an issue.
> Our troop is 100% run by fathers, which means 95% of the adult leaders are
> over 40 ... and thus the boy/adult line is clearly drawn.

While Shawn Scoles writes:

> Wow!  21 years old and a SM.  I am 22 and would not have the guts to become
> SM. ... One possibility that they do not see you as the scoutmaster because
> you are young.

This is true.  I came up through the ranks in the troop from an 11-year-old
Tenderfoot.  However, I don't think it is necessarily an age blur; I thinkk
it is more my fault that I don't draw the line cleanly between "Mister
Scoutmaster" and 'one of the guys'.

But Jerry writes:

> ... don't ... stop being the leader during this process, but get to know
> the boys on a personal level.  Be able to sit and joke and have fun with
> them.

See, Jerry, this is just my problem.  As a young leader, I do this too
well.  The scouts quite often become unsure as to when I am in (to
paraphrase Greg) leader mode or friend mode.  A lot of the time it is
necessary to be "mean and nasty."

[numerous suggestions from a number of sources indicating that the SM
shouldn't let the PLC take complete charge of the meetings]

I have always been under the impression that the adults role in the troop
is secondary to that of the PLC; that the SM should, under ideal
circumstances, only have to unlock the meeting room, talk to the SPL and the
ASMs, and be avilable for consultation from the scouts.  I think it was stated
 here a few months
ago that when the boys elect a weak PLC, they get the benefit of learning
what happens when they do: a weak program.  However, this seems to result
in more boredom, thus, more disruptions.

Antoher question arose in an E-mail discussion of this topic:  when a boy
misbehaves, should he be disciplined, or should his PL, or his SPL?

A conflicting point regarding uniforming:

Shawn says:

> Send [the scout] home ... if he does not come to the meeting with his
> complete uniform.

While Jerry says:

> Don't pressure him.  When he sees fit, he'll start wearing his uniform ...
> or will stop coming to meetings.

I would tend to agree with Shawn, although Jerry has a valid point.  The
uniform is an important part of the program, and I feel that if one scout
'gets away"' with not wearing his uniform, it sets a bad precedent to the 
other scouts.

Thanks to all for your help. I'll be compiling and processing all e-mail
responses and have a compilation on Monday or Tuesday.

J. Travis Lauricella
Troop 53, Tacoma WA
SM, Eagle '89, OA '86