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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:22:41 EST
From:         Holly R Gensch <genschho@STUDENT.MSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: looking for some info.
              Magnolia" at Dec 16, 92 5:41 pm

    To: Daniel Joseph Magnolia

        I'll tell you about one subscriber at least. If you didn't see my name
when you got the message, here's a blast from your past- Hey Dan! It's Holly
Gensch direct from your high school nightmares. (Everyone else on the net-sorry
to take up your space but this will be a personal message to an old friend.)
Dan- How are you doing? How's Washington been treating you? I'm still here at
Michigan State with Bob plodding through the semster and my college career. I
see Bob all the time.(Living in the same floor will do that.) You ended up as
political science major huh? I almost went that route but here at Michigan the
best department is James Madison, as Bob has already probably told you. I'm a
social relations major in James Madison specializing in race and gender
relations. I've become a real activist here working for equality as a woman and
as a hispanic. I am half Puerto Rican and although that never came out at high
school, I find a certain pride and joy in it now. I got on this net because I'm
also interested in going to law school. I'm not sure where and I'm not sure
what I want to specialize yet. Hell, I'm not even sure I want to go to law
school. I'm just checking out all my options. Life can be confusing and
figuring out what you want you want to do with it is by no means easy. At
least, that's the way it's been for me. Do you know what you want to do?
    Do you talk to Bob much anymore? Who else do you talk to from high school?
The only person I really have kept in touch with has been Diane Questore. High
school was long time ago and I don't think I made any "real friends" there.
College has been much better to me. I hope the same goes for you. Write me back
if you have a chance. My address here is Genschho@msu.edu
    You may be hesitant to write me back because you remember me from high
school. Some memories are better left buried right? Well, I think if you decide
to write me back you'll find I'm a much different person and for me high school
is buried. I always remeber you as a good guy though and I haven't found too
many of them. It would be nice to be in touch with as many as possible. Talk to
you soon.
Holly
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:01:00 PST
From:         Terry Carroll <tjc50@JUTS.CCC.AMDAHL.COM>
Subject:      Assessing Governmental Interest

Many constitutional tests turn on whether a state or federal government has
the appropriate level of interest in regulating a particular subject.
Examples include Equal Protection, Substantive Due Process, and state
regulation of interstate commerce.

For example, if a government passes a law which treats people differently
based on race, the law will be struck down as violative of the Equal
Protection clause of the 14th Amendment unless the government can show that
it (the government) had a compelling governmental interest, and that the
regulation was necessary to acheiving that interest.

Other doctrine calls for legitimate governmental interests; important
governmental interests; substantial governmental interests; and, as with
Equal Protection, compelling governmental interests.

Now, my question:

What tests have been prescribed by the federal courts, particularly the U.S.
Supreme Court, to determine whether an interest is not legitimate,
legitimate, important, substantial, or compelling?  I'd like to emphasise
that I'm looking for what doctrine exists, rather than individual opinion as
to what interests fit into what categories.

I should have asked this earlier, since the question didn't occur to me until
midway through my Constitutional Law final exam last night :-), but I'm still
interested.

Any input?

BTW, I'm posting an identical question on misc.legal on usenet; if anyone
expresses any interest in the responses, I'll post any significant replies or
postings to this list.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
From: kpscarr@leland.Stanford.EDU (Karen Pelton Scarr)
Subject: Re: Law Schools and Queers
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 06:32:06 GMT

In article <9212112230.AA11065@gw.home.vix.com> "Anne P. Mitchell, JD" <shedevil@VIX.COM> writes:
>In your incredibly interesting letter to me you said:
>>
>>In article <9212090857.AA03196@gw.home.vix.com> shedevil@VIX.COM (Anne P.
>>Mitchell, JD) writes:
>>>Go to Stanford.  They emphasize things like gender orientation,
>>>race, and underclass subordination problems more than they
>>>bother with teaching the law.
>>
>>Hey!  You must have gone to Boalt or something--what's that little dig about
>>"more than they bother with teaching the law"?!
>
>Nope.
>
>>But I would echo the recommendation.  I am a second-year at Stanford, and I
>>have found the atmosphere very tolerant (of gays and liberal views generally,
>>if less so for more conservative viewpoints) and there are plenty of course
>>offerings that focus on underrepresented and disempowered groups.  Prof. Janet
>>Halley teaches a terrific seminar called "Identity and Difference."
>
>Yep..and don't forget "Subordination".  Unfortunately some of us would
>have prefered to learn about the *law*.
>
>
>Anne P. Mitchell
>Stanford Law School,
>Class of '92

Ah, come on, you don't learn about the *law* in law school!  That's what
Barpassers is for!

KP

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X-Resent-Date:  Thu, 17 Dec 92 21:58:21 EDT
X-Resent-From:  "D.Joseph Magnolia" <GV208C@GWUVM>
X-Resent-To:    Scott Kennedy <je417c@GWUVM>, Kathleen O'Brien <np977c@GWUVM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:11:49 EDT
Comments:     Resent-From: "D.Joseph Magnolia" <GV208C@GWUVM>
Comments:     Originally-From: "D.Joseph Magnolia" <GV208C@GWUVM>
From:         "D.Joseph Magnolia" <GV208C@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      The Most Wonderful Time Of The Year

I wrote this Holiday message to my friends in college and I figured I'd
share it with those of this list who are of the same faith.
----------------------------Original message----------------------------


----------------------------Original message----------------------------
                                              December 17, 1992

Dear All,

   It's that time of the year again.  Yes, it's Christmas... the celebration
of the birth of Our Lord Jesus Christ.  It's right up there with Easter!
And not because of Santa Claus or the Energizer Easter Bunny, but because they
represent two of the most precious days in our religion.

   For the lamen among us who have grown up in ignorance, Christ is not his
last name nor is "H" his middle initial.  Some idiot made up the "H" part,
however, Christ is derived from the latin Christe which in turn is taken
from the greek translation of the Hebrew word for "The Messiah".  He has
other names as well, such as Emmanuel, The Son of God and The Son of Man.

   Whether you believe in Him or not, you cannot escape the fact that Christmas
is a religious holiday.   Just the word CHRISTmas implies He, who gave Himself
for us.  In the hustle and bustle of this very stressful time, I can understand
how people may forget the true meaning of Christmas.  It is quite easy to let
Christ slip out of your memory for a brief moment in time.  We are human and
are subject to mistakes.  He knows this and so long as you keep Him close to
your heart, He will fill you with joy and love and guide you through your
days.

   Believe in Him unconditionally, but do not blame Him for the sins of the
world.  He will help those who help themselves... and he will save those who
are willing to contribute to their own salvation.  He is here for guidance,
not to make lives perfect for only He can be perfect.  We are His children
in His name and should follow His tennants to the best of our ability.  No one
could ask for any more than that.  Not even He.  So as you all finish your
finals and begin to return home to your families, remember that the day you
celebrate is His... and ours.  It means a lot more than getting, or even
giving presents.  It's a day of love and compassion.  So as you go on your
way, give someone you don't know a smile or a "How do you do?"  And don't
forget to tell someone you love, that you love them... all of them... in the
name of Christ the Lord, Emmanuel God with us.

                                   Peace be with you in His grace,

                                   D.Joseph Magnolia
                                   gv208c@gwuvm.gwu.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Sun, 20 Dec 1992 21:16:26 CST
From:         C572607@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      unsubscribe

I'm sorry to have to send this to the list, but my system name has changed
since I signed on to the list, and am now unable to signoff.  If someone
could be so kind as to help me out, I'd greatly appreciate it.
c572607@mizzou1 (formerly umcvmb)
Robert Cook
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:22:00 PST
From:         Terry Carroll <tjc50@JUTS.CCC.AMDAHL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Governmental Interests Reply

> There are many different tests that apply to different areas of constitu-
> tional law. You cited the example of a law that treats people differently
> on the basis of race. In Equal Protection cases, the standard often applied
> is the rational basis test along with the suspect classification test.
> Under the rational basis test, the govt must show that the discriminatory
> treatment is based on a good reason. Under the suspect classification test
> (maybe it's not correct to call it a "test"), distinctions on the basis
> of race are given "heightened scrutiny" by the Court, meaning that the
> justification for such treatment must meet a higher standard than the
> simple rational basis test.

Thanks, Scott.  I understand the basis for selecting the various tests, my
question is determining the level of interest involved.

Let's take the heightened scrutiny example you brought up, in particular, the
strict scrutiny flavor of it.

For a statute to pass the strict scrutiny test, there must be

1) A compelling state interest;
2) The law must be necessary to the achievement of that interest.

Leg number 2 is pretty easy to determine: can the end be achieved with any
less constitutionally burdensome method?

It's leg number one that I have a problem with.  How does one determine if an
interest is legitimate, important, substantial, or compelling?
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X-Btw: vix.com is also gw.home.vix.com and vixie.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 14:30:55 PST
From:         "Anne P. Mitchell, JD" <shedevil@VIX.COM>
Subject:      Re: Law Schools and Queers
              at Dec 11, 92 8:36 pm

In your incredibly interesting letter to me you said:
>
>In article <9212090857.AA03196@gw.home.vix.com> shedevil@VIX.COM (Anne P.
>Mitchell, JD) writes:
>>Go to Stanford.  They emphasize things like gender orientation,
>>race, and underclass subordination problems more than they
>>bother with teaching the law.
>
>Hey!  You must have gone to Boalt or something--what's that little dig about
>"more than they bother with teaching the law"?!

Nope.

>But I would echo the recommendation.  I am a second-year at Stanford, and I
>have found the atmosphere very tolerant (of gays and liberal views generally,
>if less so for more conservative viewpoints) and there are plenty of course
>offerings that focus on underrepresented and disempowered groups.  Prof. Janet
>Halley teaches a terrific seminar called "Identity and Difference."

Yep..and don't forget "Subordination".  Unfortunately some of us would
have prefered to learn about the *law*.


Anne P. Mitchell
Stanford Law School,
Class of '92
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:17:19 EST
From:         wsmurray@UALR.EDU
Subject:      Governmental Interests Reply

Terry,

There are many different tests that apply to different areas of constitu-
tional law. You cited the example of a law that treats people differently
on the basis of race. In Equal Protection cases, the standard often applied
is the rational basis test along with the suspect classification test.
Under the rational basis test, the govt must show that the discriminatory
treatment is based on a good reason. Under the suspect classification test
(maybe it's not correct to call it a "test"), distinctions on the basis
of race are given "heightened scrutiny" by the Court, meaning that the
justification for such treatment must meet a higher standard than the
simple rational basis test.

This is just an example. There are different tests in different areas of
law. Equal Protection has its tests, as does interstate commerce, free
speech, etc. There is no truly general standard. Except, maybe that the
Court tends to try to balance the various rights in conflict rather than
applying any rule absolutely.

I hope this helps a little.

Scott Murray, University of Arkansas at Little Rock
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:54:09 EST
From:         V1754G@TEMPLEVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Income Taxes For Self-Employed Lawyers
              14 Dec 1992 18:31:57 GMT from <georgec@ENG.UMD.EDU>

advice:  go out and get  a  real good taxpreparer, remember the
expenses you incur paying for tax advice is deducticle s212(?)
on the next year's return.

best advice: go find someone who really knows what he's doing, and
pay for their experise, you'll only screw yourself through
being cheap.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:20:10 CST
From:         Eddie Lorenzo <C53007EL@WUVMD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: dual degree programs
              12 Dec 1992 14:32:12 EST from <genschho@STUDENT.MSU.EDU>

On Sat, 12 Dec 1992 14:32:12 EST Holly R Gensch said:
>Does anyone know of any schools that have dual degree programs with a masters
>in social work? I know a school in Boston does but I'm not sure which school.
>Are there any other schools that have this program? Any info you have would be
>helpful. Thanks.
>
>Holly

Holly,

Washington University has and excellent dual degree program in law and social
work. The School of Social Work is one of the more reputable in the country and
the law school isn't bad either. (I'm in the law school but not in the School
of Social Work.)
                                              Eddie Lorenzo
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:41:35 EDT
From:         "D.Joseph Magnolia" <GV208C@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Looking for Info.

Dear ADA,

   Hello.  I'm new here.  I just subscribed to this net and I was wondering if
I could get any information on what services it really provides, who are it's
subscribers and just about anything else that is related.

   I am a student of The George Washington University in Washington , D.C.
I am a Polital Science major and aimed towards law school.

                                           Sincerely,

                                           Daniel Joseph Magnolia
From: R1WDR@AKRONVM.BITNET (Bill Rich)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Subject: Re: Governmental Interests Reply
Date: 19 Dec 92 16:40:23 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              18 Dec 1992 09:22:00 PST from <tjc50@JUTS.CCC.AMDAHL.COM>

"Legitimate" means not constitutionally prohibited.  The U. S. Supreme Court
so far has not attempted to define "important," "substantial" (when that
term is used to characterize the weight of the asserted governmental
interest), or "compelling."  One is left to make ad hoc comparisons
with the particular governmental interests that the Court has already
characterized in those terms.  In effect, the Court interprets the Consti-
tution to establish a hierarchy of governmental interests or functions
but fails to offer a theoretical justification for the hierarchy.  If you
are interested in pursuing the question in depth, take a look at two
articles on the subject by Stephen Gottlieb, a law professor at Albany.
I don't recall the exact titles, but I believe one is in the Albany Law
Review and the other is in Boston U.

"Important" and "substantial" are used more or less interchangeably,
denoting an intermediate standard.  "Compelling" denotes the strictest
standard.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
From: rossi@cwis.unomaha.edu (Tom Rossi)
Subject: Re: Legal Investments for Municipalities
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 04:07:55 GMT


As a lawyer that has worked on some CMO's and many credit card 
securitizations, I can tell you firsthand that all derivatives 
are extraordinarily complex instruments and you are in for a 
great deal of work if you want to understand their risks.  As
has been noted in many Wall Street Journal articles, investment
bankers require supercomputers to run the numbers and the banking 
regulators have imposed stringent rules governing investment
because they are most concerned about the ability of people
to understand what they are buying.  The bottom line on most of
these investments is that if you purchase the rated tranches, 
the credit risk is indicated by the rating but the interest rate
risk is the real issue in that derivatives can greatly magnify
rate risk through prepayment possibilities and other concerns.

With respect to CMO's,a good starting point is Frank Fabozzi's 
lengthy book "The Handbook of Mortgage-Backed Securities" and if
you are interested in credit-card structures, see "The Cashflow 
Structures of Credit Card Securitizations" in Vol. 4 DePaul
Business Law Journal 345 (1992)(Thomas A. Rossi ... I can send a 
reprint if really interested).

A final note, beware the sales pitches of the investment bankers.
My humble opinion is that many do not totally understand the risks
and they pressure buyers with subtle intimidation tactics ("Well
certainly you understand ... [insert totally incoherent catch
phrases of your choice]).  If they can't explain it to you in a way
that you can totally grasp, BEWARE!

A final issue is intimated in your title re investment securities.
Each state has its own regulations re what municipalities can
purchase and that is your starting point ... but I suspect you already
know the answer to that question.  Some states are quite restrictive 
while others are much more hands off.  Note that even the investment
banks take hits on their CMO portfolios (a few years ago took a major
investment bank took a $300M loss explaining that they had not 
properly analyzed or hedged the portfolio).

Good Luck,
 
-- 
rossi@cwis.unomaha.edu
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Organization: Franklin and Marshall College
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:10:06 -0400
From:         MM_VALLAT@FANDM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Looking for Info.

Hello!

   I've been on this board for a while and I'm trying to get off before the
holidays, so I don't have a million messages when I return.  I'm doing this
with other boards, but this is the only one that won't let me sign off.  I
really could use some help.
   Thanks in advance.

Happy Holidays to All!!!!!

Val


*****************************
Michele M. Vallat
Franklin and Marshall College
Lancaster, PA
*****************************
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:24:00 EST
From:         "LLewie louie..." <GIB6313@NUHUB.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Law Schools and Queers

Northeastern University School of Law is very gay positive, offer(s) courses
on sexual orientation and the law.  And faculty policy is to incorporate
G/L issues into the cirriculumm where possible
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Date:         Sat, 12 Dec 1992 14:32:12 EST
From:         Holly R Gensch <genschho@STUDENT.MSU.EDU>
Subject:      dual degree programs
              Scarr" at Dec 11, 92 8:36 pm

Does anyone know of any schools that have dual degree programs with a masters
in social work? I know a school in Boston does but I'm not sure which school.
Are there any other schools that have this program? Any info you have would be
helpful. Thanks.

Holly
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
From: kcowin@panix.com (Ken Cowin)
Subject: Legal Investments for Municipalities
Summary: Sources wanted for Legal Investments for Municipalities
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:42:25 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC
Keywords: Legal Investment

 
I am very interested in the use of new derivative securities (ie CMO's
and similar mortgage products) by municipal pension plans to increase
return.  What guidelines should treasurers follow when considering
risk and reward?  Are there any published guidelines?  Is this the
right place to post this question?  E-mail answers appreciated.

Thank you,

Ken Cowin
kcowin@panix.com
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject:  Income Taxes For Self-Employed Lawyers
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 18:31:57 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland


My brother is a self-employed lawyer in Savannah, Georgia, and he
wants to know how to reduce taxes he owes on his income and his
profits.

As I understand it, 50% of his profits go to taxes, and 35% of his
income go to taxes.

He has consulted two CPA's for advice over the past year, and in both
cases the advice they gave him caused some trouble with the IRS. In
other words, they gave bad advice.

Is there anyone out there who can relate to this problem, and offer a
solution? Since CPAs are giving him advice the IRS rejects, is there
some other advisor he should be consulting, instead?
From: 0003991462@MCIMAIL.COM (Thomas A. Cawley, Jr.)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.lawsch-l
Subject: Re: Locations for the Patent Bar
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:34:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

The patent bar (4/21/93) will be given in the following cities:

Albuquerque, NM
Anchorage, AK
Atlanta, GA
Baltimore, MD
Bangor, ME
Boston, MA
Concord, NH
Chicago, IL
Dallas, TX
Dayton, OH
Denver, CO
Detroit, MI
Ft. Snelling, MN
Hartford, CT
Honolulu, HU
Houston, TX
Indianapolis, IN
Kansas City, MO
Los Angeles, CA
Memphis, TN
New Orleans, LA
New York, NY
Oklahoma City, OK
Orlando, FL
Philadelphia, PA
Phoenix, AZ
Pittsburgh, PA
Raleigh, NC
Salt Lake City, UT
San Antonio, TX
San Francisco, CA
San Jose, CA
San Juan, PR
Seattle, WA
St. Louis, MO
Syracuse, NY
Washington, DC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom Cawley, Jr., Ph.D.                           FAX: 215-448-1982
Hahnemann University School of Medicine and Graduate School
Dept of Physiology & Biophysics, Molecular Immunopharmacology Unit
Philadelphia PA 19102-1192, USA
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Quote of the day......

"The true men of action in our time, those who transform the world, are not the
politicians and statesmen, but the scientists. Unfortunately poetry cannot
celebrate them, because their deeds are concerned with things, not persons,
and are, therefore, speechless. When I find myself in the company of scientists,
I feel like a shabby curate who has strayed by mistake into a drawing room full
of dukes."
                                                          W.H. Auden (1907-1973)
                                        Dyer's Hand (1963) The Poet and the City