HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bethan@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Bethan Davies)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Disturbed
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:20:08 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi
Distribution: soc.bi
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1992Sep14.100135.49662@ccvax.ucd.ie> pflynn@ccvax.ucd.ie (Peter Flynn, Official Muffin-sampler) writes:

>
>Indeed. And the bilingual (American) version of _Canterbury Tales_ has the
>bit where the pleysaunte Nicolas grabs Alison "by the queynte" translated as
>"he grabbed her where he shouldn't". Our English teacher at school was less 
>subtil and less queynt and told us to pencil in the translation "=cunt".

Hmm.... rather the opposite of mine. When we reached the bit where Alyson
is 'swived', she got embarrasses, and said, 'Well, I think we all know
what that means...' (or words to that effect). This was after painstakingly
translating the rest of the tale, too, while those of us who weren't
Chaucerianly challenged went to sleep. ( Yes, I _like_ making words up...
got a problem with that ...:)

>BTW if you read the text carefully, is Chaucer hinting that Nicolas might
>be bi? Our English teacher certainly was :-)

I was an innocent 16 year old when I read it. Maybe its time for a re-run...:)


                          Bethan
From: zzaascd@meehpa.ee.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Appreciate Chocolate Now and Avoid the Rush!
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:27:46 GMT
Reply-To: colin@manchester.ac.uk
Organization: Department of Electrical Engineering, University of Manchester

In article <1992Sep4.003800.49618@ccvax.ucd.ie>, pflynn@ccvax.ucd.ie (Peter Flynn, Official Muffin-sampler) writes:

|> BTW, who likes their chocolate warm and soft (kept in the pocket)
|> and who likes it hard and cold (kept in the fridge)?

I just *like my chocolate*, though out of preference, I'll keep it in the fridge.

Colin
(Resisting the impulse to make comments about prefering to eat things that
are warm and hard...).  Damn!  It slipped out (ahem!).

  Colin Dente                     | JANET: dente@uk.ac.manchester
  Manchester Computing Centre     | ARPA:  dente@manchester.ac.uk
  University of Manchester, UK    | UUCP:  ...!mcsun!ukc!manchester!dente
   ... Blatantly Bisexual ...     | B3/4 f+ c g+(+) k(+) r s
From: zzaascd@meehpa.ee.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Bi pamphlet - enough already! 8->
Date: 7 Sep 92 12:48:46 GMT
Reply-To: colin@manchester.ac.uk (Colin Dente)
Organization: Department of Electrical Engineering, University of Manchester

In article <10628@scott.ed.ac.uk>, bethan@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Bethan Davies) writes:

|> Anyway, I have to practice the <innocent looks> for when I go to my parents...
Hmmm... I know the feeling - I have to make a point of not doing my lecherous
bear cub impressions when I'm at the parents'


|> Well, you're definitely cute <HUG> <skritch>
Ooh... mmmm....
|> .... and so was Geoff, for that matter...
Sure was - must be something about the linguistics

|> >P.P.S.  I haven't had my beard stroked for over 60 hours now, and I'm starting
|> >to get serious withdrawl symptoms.  <Sniff!>
|> Awww... never mind, sweetie. We'll just have to organise another beard-stroking
|> session....
Sweetie!  I've never been called sweetie before.  I think I kinda like it...

|> (It has the same sort of effect on the strokers as the strokees, y'know)
|> Have another <skritch> or five....
So when can I come to Edinburgh?...

|> I have some _very_ cute piccies of Colin having his beard skritched, btw
What - you mean pictures of me where I don't have my "Oh look it's a camera,
I feel stupid" face on?  (Photogenic_R_not_us).


Colin

  Colin Dente                     | JANET: dente@uk.ac.manchester
  Manchester Computing Centre     | ARPA:  dente@manchester.ac.uk
  University of Manchester, UK    | UUCP:  ...!mcsun!ukc!manchester!dente
   ... Blatantly Bisexual ...     | B3/4 f+ c g+(+) k(+) r s
From: angi@festival.ed.ac.uk (Angi Lamb)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: This Weekend
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:12:38 GMT

mlloyd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Lloyd) writes:

|Mike, in no-holds-barred flirting mood

Can i join in too? I've got post-flirting blues from Norwich. And
Edinburgh Bi Groupd only meets once a week *pout*.

Angi :-)
--
"Being alive carries more responsibility than living. Everything has
cause and effect." Anon, writer's workshop, BiCon 92, Norwich.
From: woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Objectification
Date: 7 Sep 92 09:09:00 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>mlloyd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Lloyd) writes:
>> OK, so I miss San Francisco ... well, let me be more specific.  I miss
>> Coe and Ellen's hot-tub.
>
>Well, Mike, *now* you've done it...the waterbed is jealous...*grin*...

   *I* miss their hot tub - and I won't even see it for another 3 months
or so! 8-<

   BTW - hi Muffy, hi Mike. I understand you both said nice things about
me... 8->

Joe.

  / Joe Woodhouse        / I'm just a sweet bisexual...   / Hello, there.
 / Latrobe University   /    (think - Rocky Horror)      / Threesomes are fun.
/ Melbourne, Australia / Music. Magic. Mathematics. Me. / I like cats! (miaow!)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: rhialto@cs.kun.nl (Olaf Seibert)
Subject: Re: Guardian Norwich article
Organization: Intravenous News Addicts
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:55:35 GMT

In article <18344@acorn.co.uk> osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith) writes:
>Hmm, I think I'm getting hyper sensitive. I ordered a Vegetarion pizza at
>the Oasis burger/pizza/kebab/etc. place, and I definietly heard a "bloody
>vegetarians" whisper from behind me.

This shows just how stupid some people are. They don't seem to understand
that vergetarians *don't* eat anything with blood!

>Owen.
-Olaf.
-- 
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert      B4f+-t-w--g+k+(+)svmrp+  rhialto@cs.kun.nl
\X/   It'sneveragoodideatoarriveinthepastwithyourpantsaroundyourknees -Sam
From: osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Norwich
Date: 7 Sep 92 17:55:23 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

In article <10627@scott.ed.ac.uk> bethan@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Bethan Davies)
writes:

>"Thank you for travelling by Bisexual Buses. Please remember on leaving the
>bus that there may be monosexuals around. Please do not stare."

>(courtesy on our in-bus entertainment system (aka Bill))

Was this the monologue he'd been saving up since we stalled him on Saturday
evening? (Bill "I'm internalising it" Gammie strikes again.)

Owen.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Objectification (was Re: Sexual Harassment)
From: cjohnson@zeus.calpoly.edu (Coe Salzgeber)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1992 02:01:37 GMT
Organization: Cow Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA

iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Sults) said...
>cjohnson@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Coe Salzgeber) writes:
>>Seems that the main change in how i look at people has come about after 
>>having been in situations where i _could_ have sex with anyone in the 
>>room, simply by asking (or looking so baby-dyke adorable that i get asked).

BTW, in case anyone is wondering... i was talking about a women's sex 
club, not just any ol' place... just don't want anyone to assume that 
i go to parties thinking that...

>Why Coe, how very femme of you.  Course, I should have known.  Anyone
>who can wield a lipstick mirrorless the way you do, will obviously 
>be good at looking so baby-dyke adorable!

Hmmph, baby-dykes are _not_ femme <stamps foot>.  According to JoAnn 
Loulan, "'baby' seems to require a certain toughness...."  So there! :^)

BTW, I'm having a lot of fun with Loulan's newish book _The Lesbian Erotic
Dance: butch, femme, androgyny and other rhythms_.

It's entertaining to see if i or people i know fit into any of her 
categories... though i suppose i am getting a bit old to really qualify 
as "baby-dyke" any more.

Another fun category (although the name is outdated) is "Ki-ki".  "It's 
still used in some sectors of lesbian culture to describe women who 
move easily from butch to femme and back again.  It's a style which 
embodies both femme and butch sexual energy."  I had been looking for 
a term for that... i see androgynous as neither butch nor femme, and
was looking for a term to describe someone who encompasses _both_, at 
different times and in different ways.

equally adept at wielding a power tool or a lipstick,
-Coe
-- 
cjohnson@nyx.calpoly.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: euclid@lindy.Stanford.EDU (Stephanie Moore-Fuller)
Subject: Re: Clive Barker's book "Imajica" (warning: spoilers)
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:16:22 GMT


>No, my "discomfort" started long before it became clear that there
>was a connection with Christ. Actually, I loved the connection
>between the the characters of the book and the Christian god: quite
>original and probably verging on blasphemy.
>                                 ^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Ciaran.

And what about John, called "the one that Jesus loved" in the new
testament (sorry, don't ask me exactly where, but if someone else
knows I could probably look it up in the koine Greek to see which
version of 'love' was used).

stephanie, oft known as the pest
From: jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: pledge
Date: 8 Sep 92 09:57:41 GMT
Originator: jrk@sperwer.cwi.nl

In article <1992Sep6.172625.12804@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> T.C.Weaver, tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu writes:
>& here is the Bongo pledge which Ellen mentioned earlier..
>
>"I plead alignment to the flakes of the untitled snakes of a merry cow & to
> the Republicans for which they scam - one nacho, underpants with licorice
> & jugs of wine for owls". I believe Groening has written another, but it's
> not in the _Big Book of Hell_.

I have this one in my .fortunes file:

I pledge impertinence to the flag-waving
Of the unindicted co-conspirators of America
And to the Republicans for which I can't stand
One abomination, underhanded fraud, indefensible
With liberty and justice forget it.
		-- Bongo, Life in Hell

--
Richard Kennaway     SYS, University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.
Internet:  jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk               uucp:  ...mcsun!ukc!uea-sys!jrk

Truss's theorem of single life:  if you have not yet finished the marmalade,
there is still some marmalade left.
From: osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Disturbed
Date: 9 Sep 92 12:39:04 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

In article <1992Sep9.011348.3609@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu
(T.C.Weaver) writes:

>>>An innocent question - what exactly counts as membership to the Mile 
>>>High Club.

>Also for parachuting/parascending etc |-). Though I don't believe Simon
>McLeish when he says it's possible while hangliding. Merry's hanglider, at
>least, does not have gimbals and an autopilot!

I've done a small amount of hanggliding, and I don't believe it either. For
a start the sink rate with two people on the glider will be dreadful. And
believe me, you'll be sinking. It takes concentration to thermal (not that
I've done any thermalling you understand). This is assuming you can even get
two people on a hang glider to start with. Launching is going to be really
awkward. There are some two man hanggliders (side by side) but they're
extremely rare. And once you're in the air, side by side hanging belly down,
turning to copulate in the harnesses is going to be extremely tricky. Anyone
crazy enough to even consider unclipping deserves to die. All this is
ignoring the autopilot issue too. I reckon you could just about do it,
but I think if you're prepared to try you have to accept that death is
also a likely outcome.

Owen.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Objectification (was Re: Sexual Harassment)
From: cjohnson@zeus.calpoly.edu (Coe Salzgeber)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1992 01:30:12 GMT
Organization: Cow Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA

mlloyd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Lloyd) said...
>cjohnson@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Coe Salzgeber) writes:
>>[Not a bi man, but i want to reply anyway...]
>>Seems that the main change in how i look at people has come about after 
>>having been in situations where i _could_ have sex with anyone in the 
>>room, simply by asking (or looking so baby-dyke adorable that i get asked).
>
>That last parenthetical claim would be outrageous, if it wasn't
>so clearly true that you are capable of it ;-)

Gee, thanks... and i was just thinking that i _should_ have said 
something like "trying to look so...".  

>OK, so I miss San Francisco ... well, let me be more specific.  I miss
>Coe and Ellen's hot-tub.  Those two can be such softies when faced
>with a tale of woe; I could probably relate my current NY blues, and they'd
>mail me their hot-tub for me to soak my weary legs in.  Well, OK, so
>that's not true.  Wouldn't be the same without the company, anyway ...

Tales of woe are so much more compelling when told by a sweet bi guy
with an adorable face and long, soft hair :^)
But i think i like the hot tub a little too much to be sending it off 
to New York... anyway, Mikes are less expensive to ship than hot tubs,
so you could come back and tell us your tale of woe in person :^)

BTW, is your apartment okay?  Are they still calling you "Professor Lloyd"?

-Coe
-- 
cjohnson@nyx.calpoly.edu
From: cen@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Language is a virus (was: Various)
Date: 13 Sep 92 02:59:57 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620


 sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
> hardie@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ted Hardie) writes:
> 
> [stuff]
>>that I don't recognize]).  If there is a reason for making that
>>definition, then I suppose you only need warn the peripheral person of
>>what status awaits; if there is no prior reason to define things in
>>gender terms, avoiding it might produce quite different results.
> 
> It appears to me that you are demonstrating your
> point.  This is just one example of a paragraph fragment that I found
> extremely difficult to make sense of.  Thus the virus of language
> strikes again.

C'mon, you like Laurie Anderson's rendition of language-as-virus. I just think
Ted has a particularly unsuccessful mutation here. Or maybe it's not a virus,
transmitting codes and self-replicating. Maybe it's cancer: the oncogenes are
in full swing, and the bloated unspecialised cells are crowding out functional
ones.

Tanaqui
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: whatever . . .
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:44:51 GMT

In <1992Sep7.124907.16190@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
>>It's been my experience that when there's one man with a group of women,
>> the man gets ignored entirely.
>
>It must be he's boring, or they're ignoring circumstances.
>Sorry. Were I there, I would consume the resources.
>
>None of us are ultimately stupid [...]

Perhaps not, but you have managed to come across as clueless, sexist,
arrogant and egotistical all at the same time. No doubt, stupidity will
ultimately follow.


Ciaran.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Subject: Re: whatever . . .
Originator: bbooth@bcrks6
Reply-To: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd, Ottawa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:45:58 GMT


In article <BuDJB8.Js7@news.larc.nasa.gov>, kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey) writes:
> In article <1992Sep10.154253.12818@bcrka451.bnr.ca> bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth) writes:
> >> >>pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
> >> >>>It's been my experience that when there's one man with a group of women,
> >> >>> the man gets ignored entirely.
> >
> >I've seen this too.  *I* think one of the reasons is that men tend to be more
> >abrasive/rough sexually than women.  It seems that when women are in a group,
> >they enjoy the gentler/softer sex that can be offered by women.
> 
> Whoa, whoa!  Stop right there, while we are on the subject of offensive
> generalizations.  I've seen this happen too, in cases where gentleness
> was certainly not the issue.  And, as I have pointed out, it's also the
> case for men (although you can make the opposite argument that men enjoy
> the less gentle sex that can be offered by men, but I don't buy that either).

I said *tend to be*, not that they *are*... men can be gentle and tender, but
the hair on our faces makes us more abrasive. ;)  My wife's comments on the
differences between me and her lover are: physical size, muscle tone and stuble.


Just my comments,

    __o     Brad Booth              | "If somebody feels really good
  _`\<,_    Bell-Northern Research  |  about who they are, they don't
 (*)/ (*)   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |  feel threatened by what other
----------  bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca  |  people are." - Dr. M. Rubenstein
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: New (? doubtful) thoghts on bi'phobia'
Date: 6 Sep 92 23:27:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.37763
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <B1PoqB8w165w@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca> panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:
+
+Yerk, what an awful clause.  ANd how on earth did they manage to define 
+"pagan"?  I've known pagans of every variety.... And there are people who 

Anyone who doesn't believe 'sex == sin' is clearly pagan, and anyone
who believes in performing repetitive acts in a group while naked
and not playing volley-ball is clearly pagan, and anyone who would
ritualize sex and perform such in a group gathering is clearly
pagan. 

But what I want to know is why the San Francisco City powers made
exemption of 'killing animals which are then eaten as part of a
religious ritual' from animal abuse ordinances. Could there be
crypto-pagans in SF?
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
From: bethan@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Bethan Davies)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Colin's Beard
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:51:00 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <memo.608850@cix.compulink.co.uk> cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>
>
>[Colin he of the strokable beard writes:]
>
>>P.P.S.  I haven't had my beard stroked for over 60 hours now, and
>>I'm starting to get serious withdrawl symptoms.  <Sniff!>
>
>Awwwww, Colin.... come one down to Bath some time and I'll stroke that
>lovely beard all night long for you... come to think of it, you could
>come up to Edinburgh and Bethan could join in!!!

YesYesYesYesYes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Don't you _dare_ keep him all to yourself, Clive! <glare>)



                          Bethan


Hey....
Nobody's said _I'm_ cute and strokeable yet..... <pout>
From: pentangl@spdcc.com (Scott Moir)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: More fun photos
Date: 6 Sep 92 12:42:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep6.124235.14178
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep06.043643.10535@rat.csc.calpoly.edu> pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
>No, not of Norwich.  (Wasn't there <pout>.)
>They're of our illustrious visitors (and some of our lovely bayareaites).
>
>(Though none of STella with whip poised over Sara - didn't have the 
>camera that day <pout> - though Elaine and Sara did have theirs fortunately.)
>
>Where to begin?

[Descriptions of the soc.bi-uk contingent deleted.]

Any of you wonderful folks over there have a scanner? I'd LOVE to see the
photos...

Scott

-- 
Scott Moir / Pentangle / Satyr ______ # "There's really only one requirement 
pentangl@Ursa-Major.spdcc.com  \ \/ / #  for a Prophet, and you've got it."
B4 f t+ w g k+(+) s+ m r p+     \/\/  # "What's that?"
These are my opinions, not SPDCC's    # "A mouth." - 'God' to J.R.'BoB' Dobbs
From: cen@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: whatever . . .
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:22:56 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620


 bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth) writes:
                
>pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
>>It's been my experience that when there's one man with a group of women,
>> the man gets ignored entirely.
> 
> I've seen this too.  *I* think one of the reasons is that men tend to be more
> abrasive/rough sexually than women.  It seems that when women are in a group,
> they enjoy the gentler/softer sex that can be offered by women.

*laugh* Oh, boy. I think not. I don't know why it happens, when it does, but
no way is it because the women want to be sweet and gentle with each other and
can't cope with all the resources of a man...

Where did this "women have softer & gentler sex" idea originate??

Tanaqui
                                         
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: euclid@lindy.Stanford.EDU (Stephanie Moore-Fuller)
Subject: no longer beards on women
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:30:53 GMT


In article <1992Sep10.172602.24681@thelema.uucp> STella@thelema.uucp (STella) writes:
...
...
>
>>de-muffin post alert!  Hugs requested!!
>
>De-muffining?  Whudduhya know?  Next thing that happens, I'll
>demuffin....  Nah, I'll save that till _I_ really need the hugs.
>
>Anyway, squishy tithugs, dear.
>
>STella@xanadu.com      1016 E. El Camino Real, #302, Sunnyvale, CA 94087


STella!  one of my favorite voices on a.s.b. (where I lurked).
From one fat broad to another, greetings.

stephanie


Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: Disturbed
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:26:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.015215.49646@ccvax.ucd.ie> pflynn@ccvax.ucd.ie (Peter Flynn, Official Muffin-sampler) writes:
>
>Does giving and receiving a blowjob in the back row of a Fokker Friendship
>count? Or is it a het definition implying M-F penetrative sex?

I would definitely say yes.  But I don't want to know any more.

>> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov 
>                      ^^^^
>And what about fucking in a space shuttle? Or an Apollo capsule?

No opportunity; although there are two married astronaut couples, they
are always split up among flights.  NASA goes out of their way to prevent
anything like that happening, and I am told that the medical monitoring
folks would probably scream their heads off if anyone tried it.  Sigh.

There are rumors of such things taking place on Mir, though.
--scott
   (who works on the aviation side of NASA anyway... the most advanced
    stuff we've got are F-16s and a B737)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Disturbed
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:31:59 GMT

In article <18518@acorn.co.uk> osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith) writes:
>Sometimes I wonder if I was born a few hundred (or thousand) years too
>late by accident. There are various times in history when the situation
>for transvestites looks to have been a lot better than it is now. Of
>course this may be superficial, plus you probably needed to be noble or
>rich or both then.

Of course, there's le Chevalier d'Eon.  S/he was both; a very successful
courtier (and spy), who fell, alas, into disgrace at court and was
sentenced to remain dressed as a woman until death.

During hir heyday, speculation was rife about hir sex; there was talk
that if hir sex were to become definitely known, several large financial
institutions could be extremely embarassed.  Fortunately, perhaps, s/he
lived to a ripe old age in gradually increasing obscurity, and when
at last s/he died and was discovered to be somatically male, few knew
and fewer cared.

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents