From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Religious Ed. is an answer not a Dracula
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 10:57:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.235355.18151@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>
rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout) writes:


>Now about the application of Islamic Law in the deen and
>dunia (religion and worldly affairs), it is very clear in
>Islam especially from the traditions of the prophet (peace
>be upon him) and the Khalifs after him that in both worldly
>and religious affairs the religion of the person is applied. 
>For example at the time of the prophet (PBUH), two jews that
>had committed adultery wanted to escape their punishment
>according to jewish law. So they went to prophet Muhammad
>(PBUH) and asked that the Islamic punishment be applied
>to them. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) refused that and told them
>that they will be punished according to their own religion.

But Rached this is not the whole story!

Let me recal, yes it is the the Sahih of al-Muslim in the Book on Huddud
(punishments).

Chapter of Stoning the Jews and Ahl al-Dimma in case of adultary

I paraphrase:

Muhammad, did not oblige the Jews to follow Islamic law, but after asking them
to read out what they had in *their* law, (which is also stoning for adultery),
he *obliged* them to fufill the prescriptions of their law, while they had
decided between themselves that they would punish this *sin* by whipping or
bruning. They made this decision because: (and I translate of hand)

one of the Rabbis speaking:

"[the punishment for adultary] is stoning, but it has increased in our midst,
so that if we caught the noble we let him go, but if we caught the weak one we
would punish him. So we said among ourselves, let us gather around one thing,
let us punish both the weak and the strong, and we replaced stoning with
burning (tahmiim = heating) and whipping."

paraphrase again: Muhammad obliged them to stone them.

>
>I only mentioned separation of chuch and state when the
>original poster said that USA and other western countries
>were CHRISTIAN countries. In fact Islam and seperation of
>Church and State are contradictory. Islam is not only a
>religion (in western terms) it is rather a way of life. Thus
>a Muslim finds rules that regulate his dealings with his God
>as well as with other human beings. There are Halal and
>Haram in every aspect of life. Thus Islam is not confined to
>the Mosque, it rather establishes a whole system of life that
>encompasses the mosque, the marketplace, the ruling place,
>the home, the family and one's self.

Rached, we still have not discussed at length the issue of Daar al-Salaam.

could this be a way for Muslims to seperate "chruch" from "state"? Note that we
want to live with each other, and this is why I am ancious to find solutions.
It is not my interest to say: "There is no way we can live with them".

But I hope that we will be able to find some Islamic principles that can be
applied by Muslims upon themselves, in such a way that they do not make it
impossible for others to live with them.

Such a principle is the Daar al-Salaam.

In brief: Daar al-Islaam is where Muslims rule and Islam is the law of the
land.

Daar al-Harb is where Islam is being actively oppoped and oppressed.

Daar al-Salaam is where Mulsims can live according to their laws, and where
they have freedom to excercise their faith. The ruler need not be a Muslim.

True that this also would "compromise" some other principles, where it would be
so that the *sin* of appostacy can NOT be punished according to Islamic law.

Yet for those who want to remain Muslims, and want to submit to Islamic law,
they should be allowed.

This would also apply for Christians. eg. Divorce is not allowed in the
Catholic Church. The church will have to accept that lebanese would want to
have a civil marrigae, and that their laws on divorce are not applicable. If
these people want to follow the Church they will have to obey the Chruch on
matters of divorce also.

I hope that we can find this field fruitful?

>rached
>

elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon