HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:40:57 PST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Karen Bonham <karen@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Information about abuse
              Dec 21, 92 11:47 am

>
>I think there's a serious need for members of this list to be educated
>about abuse issues: what constitutes abusive behavior; how victims are
>affected; characteristic behavior patterns of abusers, including whether
>and under what circumstances they're likely to change; how abuse can be
>either prevented or facilitated by the behavior of others; and special
>concerns regarding autistic people and abuse.  These are important issues
>because autistic people are particularly vulnerable (nearly 100% of the

Jim,
Hi first let me say the obvious "Merry Christmas" at this time of the
year it is hard to think anyone would want to cause the kind of damage
that abuse in any of its forms does. But as you have pointed out it does happen
and we owe it to ourselves and especially our special family members to
be as informed as possible, even when the subject is as unpleasant as
this one is. I appreciate your time in finding someone to help us look for
warning signs I feel this issue especially hard because my special guy
lives over seven hours away in a group home. He is mostly non verbal
and does not understand that there is a difference in people most are
ok but as you pointed out some are not. Please continue to speek out for
those that cannot do it for themselves

Peace to you and yours,
Karen
Karen Bonham karen@netcom.COM
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
From: hahn@umbriel.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Kai Hahn)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Subject: Information about publications
Date: 29 Dec 1992 10:05:01 GMT
Organization: CS Department, Dortmund University, Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbriel.informatik.uni-dortmund.de

Hi everyone

My name is Kai and I'm asking in place of a girl-friend of mine who 
hasn't got access to email. Her autistic brother is now 26 years old.
Although a lot of activity is done here in Germany all new ideas and
research results concerning autism seem to come from the U.S.

Could anyone of you be so kind to mail us a list of recent books or other
publications about autism that she/he can recommend.
Are there special (monthly) journals covering that subject ? (There is one 
in Germany).
 We are mighty interested in these informations.

Thanks in advance

Sabine Kaufmann & Kai Hahn
Paschufer 21
W-5860 Iserlohn 9
Germany

e-mail hahn@jupiter.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:48:07 CST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Jim Sinclair <GOLEM@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Information about abuse

On Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:40:57 PST Karen Bonham said:

>and we owe it to ourselves and especially our special family members to
>be as informed as possible, even when the subject is as unpleasant as
>this one is. I appreciate your time in finding someone to help us look for
>warning signs I feel this issue especially hard because my special guy
>lives over seven hours away in a group home. He is mostly non verbal
>and does not understand that there is a difference in people most are
>ok but as you pointed out some are not. Please continue to speek out for
>those that cannot do it for themselves

Karen,

Thanks for the support for this topic of discussion.  Too many people
would rather ignore abuse and allow it to continue than subject themselves
to the discomfort of facing unpleasant realities and taking actions that
may lead to unpleasant confrontations.

How old is your "special guy"?  Are you happy with the quality of care at
the group home?  Do you know or have reason to believe he's been abused at
any time?  Have you ever tried to explain to him that some people are "not
OK," or to teach him to protect himself?

Merry Christmas to you too.

JS
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:55:45 PST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Karen Bonham <karen@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Information about abuse
              "C73221DC%WUVMD.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU" at Dec 21, 92 9:46 pm

>
>>
>I, for one, welcome Derrick whole-heartedly.  His input would be very
>appropriate in the often-tense environments of our homes with members who
>have various disabilities.  Even if we are fortunate enough to escape abusers
>from the outside, I'm sure his comments will help us to be more aware of
>ourselves to avoid situations and behaviors that are less than constructive
>toward those whose care we have been entrusted with.
>
>doyle cozadd
>c73221dc@wuvmd
>
I second that opion, write on!
Peace to you and yours this holiday season!
Karen 4 Kids


--
Karen Bonham karen@netcom.COM
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:04:00 CST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Jim Sinclair <GOLEM@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Information about abuse

I don't know if Derrick's subscription has been activated yet.  Derrick,
are you listening?

JS
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 12:54:00 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DSS93@GENESEO.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Donna Williams Tape Requests - chain member

I would also like to be part of the chain for the tape(s).
My address is:     Dawn Sutton
                   1169 West Lake Road
                   Conesus, New York 14435

Thanks.
                -Dawn

P.S. Happy Holidays to everyone!
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
From: roise@u.stein.u.washington.edu (Linda Roise)
Subject: Re: Zoloft
Organization: Seattle University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:29:19 GMT

In article <921214085817.2596@MERLIN.NLU.EDU> "Lynda W. Huggins" <HUGGINS@MERLIN.NLU.EDU> writes:

   If you feel that your child's problem may indeed require medication,
   please only consider it AFTER you have discussed it with your child's
   doctor.

I agree.  One doesn't have a choice, in the case of ritalin, because
it is a prescription item, as are most, if not all, the
behavior-modifying drugs.  I would also urge you to get a second
opinion if a doctor recommends ritalin or other behavior-modifying
drugs for your child, and perhaps a third and a fourth.  Many docs are
quick to prescribe meds.  For most of them, that's their training.

--
_________________________________________________________________________
                                   InterNet:     roise@sumax.seattleu.edu
  Linda Roise, Seattle             America Online & Delphi:    LINDAROISE
__________________________________ Prodigy:_______________________JXCX33A
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:46:27 CST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         C73221DC@WUVMD.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Information about abuse

On Mon, 21 Dec 1992 11:47:38 CST Jim Sinclair said:
>I think there's a serious need for members of this list to be educated
>about abuse issues: what constitutes abusive behavior; how victims are

With the increasing use of telecommunications in "lower" (K-12) education,
this issue is vitally important.  Parents and teachers don't want to hear
about wackos lurking about to take advantage of the innocent without some
security measures in place.  Administrators are paranoid enough already--
even rumors of such things will deny access of entire school systems to
telecommunications.  The efforts we make here to ensure the kind of supportive
environment that the members require may well serve as a success story to
help sway the nervous administrators to give it a chance.  Or our failure
can likewise damn many educators who know what is possible to the 20 year old
textbooks their predecessors used.

>I have invited Derrick Smith to visit this list for a while to help teach
>people about abuse.  Derrick is a section leader of an online support group
>for survivors of abuse, and can discuss various forms of abuse,
>including physically, emotionally, verbally, and sexually abusive
>behavior.
>
I, for one, welcome Derrick whole-heartedly.  His input would be very
appropriate in the often-tense environments of our homes with members who
have various disabilities.  Even if we are fortunate enough to escape abusers
from the outside, I'm sure his comments will help us to be more aware of
ourselves to avoid situations and behaviors that are less than constructive
toward those whose care we have been entrusted with.

doyle cozadd
c73221dc@wuvmd
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 09:53:42 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Lisa S Lewis <LISAS@PUCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Information about abuse

On Mon, 21 Dec 1992 11:47:38 CST Jim Sinclair said:
>I think there's a serious need for members of this list to be educated
>about abuse issues....

>... how abuse can be
>either prevented or facilitated by the behavior of others; and special
>concerns regarding autistic people and abuse.  These are important issues
>because autistic people are particularly vulnerable....


Serge read Donna Williams' book last week, and was *very* disturbed by some
of her comments in the last section, relating to the subject of abuse.  I
had also been a little upset by these comments, but not as much.

In that section, Donna credits her success in reaching "THE world" with her
ability to create 'characters'.  However, she maintains that it was her
mother's abusive behavior that led to the creation of the characters to begin
with.

She even goes so far as to say "thank God I had a bad mother...."

When I read this, I admit to feeling an odd pang...should I now feel guilty
for being a "good" mother, and getting every kind of intervention I can for
my son?

Serge is terribly concerned (sorry for speaking for you, but you're not in
today!) that misguided people could read into this the benefits of abusive
behavior towards autistic people. What a tragedy that would be.

Any comments anyone? Was anyone else struck by these remarks?  Serge has said
that he plans to write to Donna Williams about this.

Lisa
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:48:51 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Lisa S Lewis <LISAS@PUCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Donna Williams tape chain

Hey everyone.  Last week I sent a letter to the appropriate person at
ABC news, stating my desire to share a copy of this interview with other
parents (as well as my unwillingness to break copyright laws.)  Today I
received a note back, with a copy of the tape!  (I also complimented ABC
on their coverage of the subject...between the news, 20/20 and Primetime Live
I can think of at least four shows that featured stories on the topic.)
Anyway, I'll compile the list of everyone who wanted to see it, and figure
out some way to send it out in a geographically sensible order.  Please note:
I specifically stated in my request that I wanted this for non-commercial,
private use.  For anyone who wants to use it in a less private forum (Linda,
e.g.) please get permission from ABC.

Happy holidays!
Lisa
From: LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Subject: Happy New Year!
Date: 1 Jan 93 05:15:25 GMT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"AUTISM%SJUVM.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Helen and I wish everyone on this list and their families a New Year full of
health and happiness.... and wealth if you can get that too. :-) We would
also like to thank you for the support and encouragement that you have given
us throughout 1992 and hope we can reciprocate during 1993.

Love and best wishes to you all,

Carolyn
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:13:13 -0800
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Peter Hughes <phughes@APPLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Donna Williams tape chain

        With so many people wanting the tape, it might be better to make a
tape tree.  Send out to 3-5 people, each makes 3-5 copies and sends it on.
Much faster and more reliable than having so many people send it in a chain.
Now that permission is available...  Just the comments of a computer nerd.
(Grateful Deadheads do this all the time).

Pete
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 11:47:38 CST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Jim Sinclair <GOLEM@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Information about abuse

I think there's a serious need for members of this list to be educated
about abuse issues: what constitutes abusive behavior; how victims are
affected; characteristic behavior patterns of abusers, including whether
and under what circumstances they're likely to change; how abuse can be
either prevented or facilitated by the behavior of others; and special
concerns regarding autistic people and abuse.  These are important issues
because autistic people are particularly vulnerable (nearly 100% of the
high-functioning autistic people I know have been sexually abused at some
point in their lives); because people on the list need to know how to
protect themselves, their children, and their students; and because I
have been left feeling personally threatened and endangered by the
fact that an abusive person was allowed free access to the list for
months and has now been re-introduced with no apparent understanding
of the implications.

I have invited Derrick Smith to visit this list for a while to help teach
people about abuse.  Derrick is a section leader of an online support group
for survivors of abuse, and can discuss various forms of abuse,
including physically, emotionally, verbally, and sexually abusive
behavior.

JS
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:03:35 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Bob Zenhausern <DRZ@SJUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Lend a hand

On Jan 7 from 10 to 12, I will be giving a demonstration of the Internet
to an entire school district in New York City.  I plan to show them Lists,
ftp, archie, gopher, veronica, etc but would like some human input.  I would
like as many people as possible to send messages of encouragement to the
participants of the confernce or even reasons why the computer networks are
a valuable resource for education.  Messages sent during the conference
times (10 to 12 AM Eastern Standard Time) will be most welcome.  Thanx in
advance for your help.
Bob

Bob Zenhausern, Ph.D.        Internet: drz@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
St. John's University        Bitnet: drz@sjuvm.bitnet
SB 15 Marillac               Phone:  718-990-6447
Jamaica, NY 11439            Fax:    718-990-6705
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:37:45 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DOC@VTVM1.BITNET
Subject:      Donna Williams tape

I am mighty interested in the tape, but I won't ask to be put on the
chain on account of my neurotic inability to send stuff out in the mail.
I have sometimes procrastinated for years (literally)....it seems to be
out of my control... but anyway, I sure would enjoy hearing your-all's
descriptions of the tape after you've looked at it.  Ditto for the
Fresh Air audio if anyone sends for it or gets to hear it somehow.

Happy holidays to all!

Thanks,
MK
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 1992 09:47:29 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "David M. Fresco" <fresco@MED.UNC.EDU>
Subject:      mail problems

Matthew et al.,
I hope that everyone is having awell deserved break.  I just got back and am
having problems turning my mail back on with my IBM account.  I can't seem
to reach listserv@uottawa.  The message gets as far as utovm and is 'rejected'
Any ideas?
David Fresco
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: RICHINSP
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:08:00 PST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Philip Richins, Continuing Education, CWU,
              (509) 963-1504" <RICHINSP@CWU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Stats & Therapists

Tim,
In general you infer correctly (see below)
So am I right in inferring that Philip and Jennifer advocate a lengthy
and challenging training program for psychotherapists wherein the chaff
will best be separated from the wheat?

But I also must point out that I worked as a psychotherapist at the Master's
level for 15 years.  At this point I must bring in the value of supervision as
you have presented it.  My work was not done in a private practice, but in the
Mental Health Centers.  The HC had a clearly defined supervisory structure and
process.  It had a "continuing education" requirement of 40 clock hours (until
recently when it was changed to 20) per year.  Paperwork was routinely audited
and cases were presented regularly to peers.  I wish I could say this all
worked perfectly, it did not.  The driving force behind these requirements was
not truly the good of the consumer or the therapist, but to meet state regs.
But, all in all, it did provide a proving ground and many a border-line (I mean
that both ways) therapist found other careers.
The MHC seem to hire Master's level people for their entry level positions and
with experience these people can be allowed to practice with greater levels of
independence.  In the end it is the licensed psychologist and/or psychiatrist
who bears the responsibility for the quality of care in the MHC. (Disclaimer:
All if my experience has been in Washington State.  None of the above may
apply elsewhere.  In fact, all my experience has been in rural, Eastern
Washington, so maybe it doesn't apply statewide!!!)

Again I resist the ONE GATE to the profession.









Philip
RICHINSP@CWU.BITNET

Working at Central Washington University
Studying at SAYBROOK INSTITUTE
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:46:00 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Tim Tumlin <UFTRT@NERVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Stats & Therapists

   So am I right in inferring that Philip and Jennifer advocate a lengthy
and challenging training program for psychotherapists wherein the chaff
will best be separated from the wheat?
  If so, does that argue for the clinical doctoral model? Does that
imply that master's programs and non-accredited programs are less
likely to screen out people who are not going to be good psychotherapists?
Tim
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Envelope-to: PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 07:24:43 -0500
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         20SSMITH@GALLUA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Whitman quote

Yes, I thought the same thing when I read that quote...It was Polonius
who said that to his son as he was getting ready to leave town on his
mission..."to thine own self be true and thou can remain false to no
man"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:30:33 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         jlbugg@UCCS.EDU
Subject:      RE: Stats & Therapists

Love ya like I love Rush Lembaugh.  All girls in my family.  Can't
remember what I felt guilty about but for some reason it makes me
smile that you're smoldering.

OK, so APS is obviously not a good choice for overseeing licensure -
and by the way, a majority of my professors boycotted the APA and
joined the APS precisely because APA said to pick one, but not both.
And, they are researchers.

I'm not sure why you think the good supervisors can outdo the bad ones.
But this is precisely my point... and some time, someone has to decide
what is good from what is bad.  We can hardly harness professionals
with expectations that can't be verbalized.  So here is my question,
which I pose not from my deep abiding love for you but because it was
almost interesting: (oh, and now I remember what I felt guilty about...
the flame...)

How do we separate the good from the bad?  How do we define it - and then
how do we effectively get rid of the bad?  As it stands now, we have
the APS - which doesn't really do much outside of licensure.   I tried
reporting someone once - I think I spoke to a receptionist.  We also
have supervisors but that is guaranteed to maintain the status quo -
birds of a feather.  There's testing - and I have never seen the tests -
but I've heard rumors that there's a lot of Freud stuff in there.  Who
writes the tests?  There is malpractice - but with insurance premiums
structured like they are:  as long as you have money, you can play.

My big  comment here is that schooling - while not the big police we
may desire - could effectively weed out good from bad.  Arm them with
knowledge kind of thing.  That's all.

Over and out, Jen.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:01:54 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Monika Trzcinska <054470@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Subject:      Merry Kiss Moose and Happy New Bear!

All the best for the Holiday Season to all psycgraders!
To those of you who will be vacationing:  Be lazy, party, and do not touch
                           these articles...!
To those of you "working": give it up, it is useless to work over the holidays!
                           if you really have to, take many breaks, which might
                           include having some eggnog with a touch of bourbon
(that is how Matthew makes it, fantastic!)
Most of all recharge your batteries (that is exactly what I will be doing)!

Matthew and I are off to Saint Louis area for Christmas!

                            *
                           ***
                          *****
                         *******
                        *********
                       ***********
                      *************
                           ***


                                 _
    ) (    Monika Trzcinska    _- o   ) (   054470@ACADVM1.UOTTAWA.CA
   )   (----------------------- o o  )   (----------------------------
    ) (                        -_ o   ) (
                                 -
   "The most important attitude that can be formed is that of a desire
    to go on learning".
                                                  Dewey (1938)
From: jmw1@ST-ANDREWS.AC.UK (Julie Marie Williams)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Whitman quote
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:49:46 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:        UK.AC.ST-AND; 21 DEC 92 14:49:26 GMT

Not really about the whitman quote (sorry!), but I'm about to rush off for the
hols and don't have time to start messing around with new headings, I'm afraid.
Just wanted to post a seasonal message to all you PsycGradders out there:-

******************************************************************************

                MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL

******************************************************************************

See you in '93!!!

Julie
St Andrews
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU