HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: NPR & Freedom of the Press: Part II
Date: 6 Sep 92 21:46:18 GMT


jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
 
> Probably a good idea that Walden Books fired them.  Consider Kepler's
> Bookstore in Palo Alto.  Its owner is or was pretty far left.
> Nevertheless, books of conservative orientation put out by major
> publishers, e.g. by P. J. O'Rourke, are available there.  Suppose it
> became the norm for bookstore employees to engage in censorship.  Then
> Kepler's would come under criticism from the left for continuing to
> stock books the left found objectionable.
 
At the risk of being called a bully, I'd like to once again agree with
Professor McCarthy.
 
Mark
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: books to avoid
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:38:05 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS

I long ago learnt to steer clear of books that were described on
their covers as "wickedly funny" or any variation of "rollicking"
or "romp", David Lodge being to one to bring the lesson home
most painfully.

Today, whilst browsing the 2 august NYT Book Review, I had another
small epiphany: I do not like books utilizing the phrase "a search
ultimately for myself."  In this case, it was Betty Fussell writing
about corn; I suppose some writers would say the same for frozen 
yogurt, lawnmowers, or tiddlywinks, but I prefer to keep a wide 
berth.  Travel writers are particularly susceptible to this tiresome
pronouncement (Mary Morris's *Nothing to Declare* springs immediately
to mind), and it is the one kind word I have for Paul Theroux (John
Nall, Lauren Crawford, and perhaps others notwithstanding) that
HE never claims to be (shudder) searching for himself.

But I did not write solely to vent my spleen.  What other phrases
get up your nose or otherwise serve to prevent you, like Socrates'
divine sign, from making sorry mistakes?

Rage away,

meg

-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu
From: citrin@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Citrin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Patrick O'Brian vs Horatio Hornblower...
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:50:38 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <7500@skye.ed.ac.uk> jeff@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Jeff Dalton) writes:
>I'd take O'Brian to the beach, read him on the bus, etc.  I did read
>him on planes and in airports.  I found the books pleasant and easy to
>read, and I often read them instead of some harder reading that was
>there as an alternative.  

I agree.  I think O'Brian is a fairly fast read, although I admit that I
don't try to understand some of the nautical arcana.  As far as his style
goes, some of the prose may be kind of old-fashioned, but the way he sometimes
organizes scene changes is highly cinematic, and thus quite modern.

Wayne

-----------
Wayne Citrin   citrin@soglio.colorado.edu   citrin@cs.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: The White Man's Burden of Proof
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date:  5 Sep 92 16:09:52 GMT

In rec.arts.books jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:

>                                                        I think it
>is Taranto who is obliged to avoid reading into Cramer's or anyone
>else's words meanings different from what he says.              

In alt.activism.d jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:

>If you don't want to be taken for extremists, then you have to
>say something to distinguish yourself from the extremists.  The
>"anti-war" movement neglected this to the point of being taken
>over by its anti-American wing.                                  

   Well?
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: couple Ross Macdonald queries
Date: 6 Sep 1992 05:42:31 GMT
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
NNTP-Posting-Host: whirlwind.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@whirlwind.berkeley.edu

In article <sph0301.55.715612037@utsph.sph.uth.tmc.edu> sph0301@utsph.sph.uth.tmc.edu (Kate Wilson) writes:
)Sue Grafton's Santa Teresa is actually a thinly disguised Santa Barbara.
)
)kate

	There is in fact a real California town called Santa Teresa.

-- 
   David Goldfarb          | "I am the mad blind energy of the universe,
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu  | I vacuum under the beds!"
goldfarb@UCBOCF.BITNET     |            -- Kim Stanley Robinson
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: People to avoid
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:17:18 GMT


   John Nall writes:

> This has to do with *people* to avoid - on the net.  That is, the
> ones whose postings you ignore, whose advice is invariably bad and/or
> incorrect, and who you just wish would go away:

 
   I routinely kill off:

     - Anything about abortion.

     - Anything about Macedonia, Armenia, Cyprus, Israel, or other 
       political issues on which people say the same thing again
       and again and again and again and again.

     - Anything about guns.

     - Anything by or in reply to holocaust-denier morons.

     - Anything by people who don't post under their full real name
       (yeah, I know they have the right to do it -- and I have the
       right to ignore them for it.)

     - Anything by certain tedious venom-spewing ideologues whose names
       I don't need to mention since you all know them.

     - Anything in reply to the periodic blatantly obnoxious articles
       which are obviously posted specifically in order to start a flame
       war.

     - Anything about libertarianism.

     - Anything with sexist or racist epithets in the subject line.

     - Anything by a few posters whose articles are remarkable only
       for their frequency and dullness, whose names I also don't 
       need to mention.
     
     - I also immediately junk any article in which the whole first  
       screen consists of included text.

   Having applied the above rules to my reading of the net for some
time, I've never had cause to regret them.  They save time, heighten 
interest, and improve the digestion.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: utopias and distopias
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 01:20:58 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

	I was glancing thru a "Portable Kipling," and under
	the heading "utopias/distopias" was listed a story.
	I don't recall the title; it was something cryptic,
	like ABA.  I think the original poster was collecting
	these, so it might be worth a gander.

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hsu@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Subject: Re: Naked Lunch
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 01:15:57 GMT

miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

>In an age when the word "important" isn't very important, _Naked
>Lunch_ I suppose counts as important.
...
>Mine are like yours--though I didn't have the patience to read it all.
>Even though the author lives here I don't know anyone who has actually
>read his stuff.

You need to go out more :-)

Many in the younger generation of fiction writers claim Burroughs as a major
influence. But since this is an age where the word "important" isn't
very important, I suppose none of these really count to you.

Bill
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Back to Books
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:48:55 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <4994@balrog.ctron.com>, mattb@ctron.com (Matt Brown) writes:
> janines@novell.com (Janine Schenone) writes:
>>I am reading nonfiction books on parenting, spirituality, religion and
>>such, but I cannot seem to find a book of fiction that interests me.
>>This is surprising, as I usually thrive on a diet of novels only.
>>Can anyone recommend a book that will knock my socks off? I'm looking
>>for something entertaining but not empty. Nothing that might dampen
>>the spirit, please. I could use a change of scenery, so something
>>set in a country other than the U.S. might be nice.
> 
> Read children's literature. Specifically, children's picture books, then
> children's fiction.
> 
> Go to a book store children's lit section.  Start looking for Caldecott and
> Newbury Award winners (usually later editions have a picture of the medal
> on the cover).  Pick one up and really look at it.  Drink in the quality
> and beauty of the illustrations.  The words are few but speak volumes. Think
> about what these words and images say to a child.  Think like one yourself
> for a while. Read it to yourself, not to the kids. Most are short, and can
> be read quickly, and then pored over to pick up missed details (the better
> the books, the more hidden treasures).

*Excellent suggestion!!!**  May I suggest some of Madeleine L'Engle's
books, esp. _Wrinkle in Time_ since you have a bent towards religion
and spirituality?  It's also a very affirmative book for young women
who have a talent for "men's jobs"*, but aren't quite ready to acknowledge
it yet.   And it's also a positive book for any kid who is "different".
You might also enjoy some of her adult books later. 

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

*yes, I know, that isn't the PC phrase, but that's how jr. high and
high school students characterize _my_ job when I visit science classes.
And of course, I'm there as a counter-stereotype.
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: books to avoid
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:40:11 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

What I hate is:

 "Much better than xxx"

where xxx is another book that I really enjoyed, and is invariably
vastly better than the book whose purported superiority is being touted.

Paul
From: matt@physics.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Wonderful Life
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:01:55
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
	<1992Sep11.234938.19031@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com's message of Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:49:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.234938.19031@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr) writes:

> As to WL, I was nonplussed by the way Gould tried to
> work up so much excitement over the idea that humanity was not
> a foregone conclusion of earth history. I should think one would
> have accepted that idea already.

I should think so too.  In fact, I did think so, until I started
reading reviews of _Wonderful Life_.  I read one review (in The New
Republic, I think) which spent most of its length arguing against
exactly that point---arguing, in effect, that it was inevitable that
humans, or something like humans, had to evolve on this planet.  

But then, maybe I shouldn't be too surprised at beliefs like that.  To
take an example closer to my own field, I have seen surveys showing
that a majority of the population still believes in Aristotelian
mechanics, rather than Newtonian.
--
Matthew Austern                   Just keep yelling until you attract a
(510) 644-2618                    crowd, then a constituency, a movement, a
austern@lbl.bitnet                faction, an army!  If you don't have any
matt@physics.berkeley.edu         solutions, become a part of the problem!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Where is Heidi?
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:30:09 GMT

Anyone knows Heidi's email address? I renewed acquaintance with her at
our RABfest, and find my old address won't get past the MAILER-DAEMON.
	
							Fido
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The White Man's Burden of Proof
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:00:31 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <9209041432.AA23011@cfdev1.shearson.com>, mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
> jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy), who is a master at quoting out
> of context, writes:
> > Mark Taranto posts:
# #        The ONLY people I have ever heard complain about racism
# #      towards whites (other than Clayton) are white supremicists.
# #
# # Mark hasn't been paying much attention unless he claims magical
# # means of identifying white supremacists.  Almost all of the people
# # who complained about the singer who said it was time for a week
# # of killing whites called it racist.
#  
# I'm sure that they did.  But were they using the same catch phrases that
# are used by the KKK and various white supremecist groups?  I doubt it.
#  
# This was my point.  Nearly everyone will agree that there are individual
# acts of racism towards whites.  My point about why people make assumptions
# about Clayton Cramer was HOW he talks about it, not THAT he talks about
# it.
#  
# Many of these catch phrases are designed to sound reasonable or innocuous
# until it is discovered what is really meant by them.  I'd like to believe
# that Cramer is using a standard definition of these words, as opposed to
# stating them with insidious intent.  But the fact remains that if he
# continues to use the same language as these fringe groups, people will
# assume that he is sympathetic to their views.  It is a shame, but it
# is a reality.
#  
# Mark

Which "catch phrases" do I use that are only used by fringe groups?
Or have you defined nearly everyone in America who isn't a leftist
as a "fringe group"?

Keep in mind that affirmative action programs don't even have
widespread support among blacks in America.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: aa634@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill White)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Date: 9 Sep 1992 15:40:51 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa634@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill White)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu



I apoligize if this is the wrong area to post this message, but I was
wondering if there's a forum on USENET dedicated to the works of
Arthur Conan Doyle, and in particular his fictional detective, Sherlock
Holmes. If there is such an area could someone please point me in the
right direction (i.e. where is it located)?

Thanks in advance,
Bill White
-- 
Bill White, aa634@Cleveland.freenet.edu OR aa037@Medina.Freenet.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------
       Assistant Sysop, Cleveland & Medina County Free-net's
                  Science Fiction and Fantasy Sig
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: evanh@sco.COM (Evan Hunt)
Subject: Re: books to avoid
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 05:34:09 GMT


dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>"In the tradition of ..."
>"If you liked X ..."
>"Could be worse."
>

"For children of all ages."


-- 
"I had generously shown on the stage my interior life as a raging beast, but
 my exterior life as a mediocre human being and dilettante of of normal int-
 elligence remained unchronicled...I *knew* that beneath my work's primeval,
 hysterical facade there was a calm little writer in an armchair just waiting
 to burst forth." -- Wally Shawn, on the writing of "My Dinner With Andre'"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Where to buy the Encyclopaedia Britannica?
From: mnor1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Mark Hiro           Norman         )
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:06:43 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland

In <25683@castle.ed.ac.uk> cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:

>In article <1992Sep9.095340.19194@nevada.edu> wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE) writes:

>Re Britannica:

>>Why? It's not a great encyclopedia as far as they go. Better off with a 
>>one-volume Columbia or an encyclopedic dictionary. They provide essential
>>facts without the patronizing attitude.

>My mum bought me one in the 1950s which I've consulted about once a
>month ever since. Haven't noticed a patronising attitude anywhere, and
>can't imagine that anything in one volume could provide the kind of
>concentrated crash introduction that 24 volumes can. But maybe since
>they started being produced in the USA the standard has deteriorated?

It's possible. I have a 1965 edition and have found it invaluable in
providing a general introduction to a subject about which I know nothing.
For instance, during the Olympics it was very handy to refer to when I got
interested in the history of Catalonia after watching a documentary about
the area.

On the other hand the latest Britannicas have split into two sets you buy,
the Micropedia and Macropedia. There seem to be more volumes with nicer
binding, but less information and more colour pictures (and perhaps
drool-proof paper? :-). I haven't consulted one in depth yet, but it may
be that there is no depth anymore.

>-- 
>Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
>Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
>5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205

-- 
Mark Norman           | My university doesn't let me send email.
mnor1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz | "We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful..."
From: peterme@ocf.berkeley.edu (Peter Merholz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: "Genius": Feynman bio
Date: 14 Sep 1992 02:28:21 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

There was an extremely brief mention of the new Richard Feynman bio, "Genius"
in Time or Newsweek... I loved "Surely You're Joking" and "What Do You Care"
books, and eagerly await this... does anyone know when it will hit the
shelves?

Thanks

--Peter M.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Subject: Re: NPR & Freedom of the Press: Part II
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 17:02:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.162429.28860@morrow.stanford.edu>, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes...

>words to that effect. After discussion with the management over the 
>phone, he was told a supervisor would arrive to fire him for insubordination
>if he did not comply with instructions. He refused and was fired,
>as, in turn, were all the other assistant managers (everyone at Walden
>is an AM).
> 
>Comments?

Both parties are right.  The employee felt strongly about something and
stuck to his convictions (maybe misplaced, maybe not).  The employer
decides (wisely or not) what to sell.  No laws were broken, and the tail 
doesn't wag the dog so the employee goes (although why they all had to go
doesn't make sense, unless they stuck by the initial martyr). 

There is not always a right or wrong within a particular disagreement
(both sides are in this case entitled to their opinions regardless of 
what we may think of it), so what it comes down to is which issues each
of us would consider important enough to fall on our swords for.

Ron
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: unexpected quotes
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:51:01 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: none

In article <-4xn2d=@lynx.unm.edu> rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:
...
>	There are some great passages in the _Federalist Papers_
>	as well.  I especially recall one that likened the government
>	to a solar system, with the states as minor planets, that
>	I thought was very finely turned.

On the _Lathe of Heaven_, perhaps?

-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
From: KGODDEN@cmsa.gmr.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Civil War
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:21:19 GMT
Organization: GM Research Labs

In article <1992Sep14.124138.19988@ms.uky.edu>
fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis) writes:

<stuff deleted>
>  I post this here, since no other forum has quite the catch-all
>  quality of r.a.b. Besides the film and the music, there is also
>  a coffee table companion book, I believe, and any number of Shelby
>  Foote's novels and histories have benefited from exposure in the
>  project. For those of you who missed it, Foote acts something
>  like a guardian angel or presiding genius for the project, his
>  bourbon drawl being almost unbearably appropriate for the material.
>  There were several other historians who appeared on camera, but
>  Foote's charisma and story telling magic divied the contributors into
>  2 camps: Foote and everyone else. Which is unfortunate, since many
>  of those were learned, charming folk who just didn't happen to
>  be talented Southern story tellers.
>
You can pick up a harcover copy of Foote's 1952 novel "Shiloh" for about
$5 at your local Dalton's.  I bought it purely on the strength of Shelby's
incredible presence in "The Civil War" noted above.  I was extremely
disappointed in "Shiloh".  As a novel, it is very weak.  In his endnote,
F. explains that most of the incidents did actually take place, and there
ARE some very interesting incidents.  And I applaud his approach of trying
to present the battle from the bottom--that is to say, each chapter is
a pigeonhole-view through the eyes of a different soldier, both the N. and
the S. getting fair treatment.  The reader gets very little of a bird's-eye
view from the omniscient author.  One of the chapters is broken into little
segments with a couple of pages devoted to each member of a particular
squad (platoon?  There were about a dozen.)  This all sounds interesting,
but it just doesn't seem to hold together the way it was written.
Perhaps because we don't stay with any one soldier long enough (although
the first and last chapters are from the perspective of the same soldier).
Anyway, my advice would be to save the $5 and apply it to Foote's 3-volume
history.  I still want to read that.  I figure he just can't write fiction.
--Kurt
----------------------
"I distrust a research person who is always obviously busy on a task."
-Robert A. Frosch, VP, GM Research
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Book Search Request
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:33:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)):
>The plot concerns a gentle humble priest who has ongoing comments and 
>conversations with Christ who has come off the cross to speak with him...
>...all I can make out is _The Little World of..._  

Giovanni Guareschi's "The Little World of Don Camillo", probably, though
there are sequels.  This is an enjoyable collection of stories about
the ongoing confrontations and rivalry between the village priest (Don
Camillo), and the Communist mayor.  'Gentle' and 'humble' apply to
neither of them, though their intentions are good.  (One of the earliest
stories concerns a competition to establish which of the two is the
strongest man in town.)

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

"The death of God left the angels in a strange position."
	--Internal documentation, programmer unknown
Organization: Temporary Employment Service, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.prose,rec.arts.books
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 1992 19:04:52 -0400 
From: Hannah R Rosner <hr24+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: paper topic help

Brennan --

A big thing these days is looking at Williams Carlos Williams
relationship to women, especially his wife.  He is overly obsessive
about writing about birth, which is clearer in his prose than in his
poetry.  However, if you are interested in anything such as that, I'd
suggest reading the very fine essay at the beginning of the _Williams
Carlos Williams Reader_, which also has references.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,comp.sys.handhelds