HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: My last word on ..."You be the Judge!"
Date: 21 Jan 1993 22:10:57 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sprl-mac2016.sprl.umich.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-XXMessage-ID: <A7848A7F6A01C4FC@sprl-mac2016.sprl.umich.edu>
X-XXDate: Thu, 21 Jan 93 23:14:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.071546.19447@colorado.edu> Philip Pellouchoud,
pellouch@alumni.cs.colorado.edu writes:
>
># days celebrating any specific american caucasions (or should I say
># caucasion americans, or american-ca to be politically correct!  :)
>
>Let's see, I DID say SPECIFIC caucasion americans, so i guess that
>rules out Presidents day, Christmas, Thanksgiving, St. Patricks Day, etc...

Presidents' Day is actually the combination of some holidays celebrating certain
"great" Presidents in our history.  

Christmas celebrate the birth of the Jewish man who's existance is the basis
of Christianity.

Thanksgiving is essential America's harvest holiday.

St. Patrick's day has nothing to do with America, but Ireland and Scotland.  
But Americans do use it for an "excuse" to wear green (or red if you're Scottish,
I believe) and drink beer with food die in it.

Yes, none of these celebrate one, "specific" caucasion Americans. But wht are
holidays for?  Celebrating an ideal, a victory, a great moment in history. 
If holidays soley celebrate the person, then I demand a holiday celebrating
me.  But they don't.  You are missing the point of MLK Day.  It celebrating
this great American _not_ because he is Black and the PCers say we need a Black
holiday . . . no, it is celebrating MLK because of the ideals he represents,
how he led the struggle in that generated the first victories against racism
(note, not complete victory), and the time in history when people started to
say that America is for all Americans, not just a certain few.  Americans now
feel that this is important and want to have an holiday that will cause them
to remeber this.  

During Christmas, my pastor always says that it is a time to remember that
Christ came to the world because we are all sinners.  Maybe you should look
at MLK day as a time to remeber that there are people in this nation still seek
to exclude others from possessing the full rights and responsibilities of being
an American.


======================================================================
|Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan  |
|  kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering  |
|  kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |      Graduate Student       |
======================================================================
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Subject: Re: More on Hating White People
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 06:02:20 GMT

   jj@alice.att.com (alice!jj) writes:

   [about Asano:]

   I AM starting to believe that you are here to create
   deliberate hatred, alright, but against asians.  Your
   words and actions are so similar to those of some anti-asian
   rednecks I've met that I am starting to think you might
   just BE one of them, trying to stir up a little
   anti-asian hatred here.

   Sad, really sad.

   >Do you know that HO CHI MIN is my mentor. 
   I'm getting pretty sure of this.  Methinks we have
   a faker here, out to cause whatever heartache he or she
   can cause for asians everywhere.

I'd go along with that.  I get a little suspicious when someone
consistently misspells the name of their "mentor".  I can't help the
feeling that someone who actually cared about Asian culture would get
the name right.

   Let's all killfile this one, folks.

Excellent advice.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:11869 ucb.general:226
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ucb.general
Subject: Re: Racial Harassment at Cal-Are we unclear on concept here?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 02:56:27 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: mamba.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan21.234047.4743@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>
>                Look at that Asian girl!
>
>The above statement is no more obnoxious than
>
>                   Look at that fat girl!
>
>Would Ms. Tseng file a racial harrassment complaint in this case?  No,
>of course not.

The problem seems to be that UCB frowns upon _racist_ assholes,
but does not extend its censure to the garden breed.

Since we've already made such strides in the litigation of
interpersonal affairs, why not take that last little step?

Folks, it's high time we banned the asshole.  Call your
Congressman!  It's the nineties now; we're progressive; we
believe in grassroots action.  The best way to get rid of
something you don't like is to go for the jugular.  Outlaw it.
Yeah.  Right?  And who the hell likes assholes?

If we hurry we can rush this thing through in ninety days.
Call your Congressman!  You don't have to move mountains, you
just have to push an anthill.  Call your Congressman!  And
you'll never have to deal with an asshole again.

c
agitandus agitati
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: mvdvalk@cs.utwente.nl (Martijn van der Valk)
Subject: Re: Fuck Michael Crichton
Organization: University of Twente, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 08:08:26 GMT

mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:

>Michael Crichton may be guilty of pandering to his audience, but he is
>far from stupid.  From what I've read of his books (not including
>Rising Sun, I must admit) and read about him...

Not read the book: read it first, then come back later!
OR.... Are you just engaged in some Asano-bashing? TAKE IT TO E-MAIL PLEASE!

Yours sincerely,

Martijn
--
Martijn van der Valk               |              e-mail: mvdvalk@cs.utwente.nl
Faculty of Computer Science / SPA  |                          phone: +53-893795
University of Twente, P.O. Box 217 | Pegasus Esprit BRA 6865    fax: +53-309723
7500 AE Enschede, The Nederlands   | BROADCAST Esprit BRA 6360
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,rec.arts.theatre
From: dsy@psych.toronto.edu (Desiree Sy)
Subject: Re: Help!!!!!  Recommendations for scenework...
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:22:57 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.005937.23961@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jbl3g@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Jason Basinger Linkins) writes:
>
>Hi.  I'm looking for some suggestions for a scene I'd like to direct for
>my directing class.  It seems my own library is too comedy-heavy.  What I'm
>looking is for a comtemporary dramatic/non comic scene.  It need only be
>ten pages long or so.  If you all have know some plays where I can draw 
>such a scene from...let me know.  

I've just finished reading George Walker's LOVE AND ANGER, which
I'm now furious that I missed.  It certainly has comic elements,
but I think generally qualifies under your description.  A couple
of other recommendations (which I've just realized fall more into
the "comedic drama" category) are scenes from Craig Lucas'
RECKLESS or Durang's THE MARRIAGE OF BETTE AND BOO.

Oh -- or here's one that's less of a comedy -- Brad Fraser's
UNIDENTIFIABLE HUMAN REMAINS AND THE TRUE NATURE OF LOVE (I'm
less crazy about this play, for various reasons, but it's worth
looking at.)

-desiree
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:11888 soc.culture.african.american:14245
From: robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ucb.general
Subject: Re: Racialized Relations at Cal...
Date: 21 Jan 1993 08:03:44 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbang.berkeley.edu

One of the most troubling aspects about Cal's racialization is that it attempts
to define "white" as a monolithic crowd, and that California is necessarily
more diverse than otherplaces like Boston or the Deep South.  It's true that
most whites in California have lost their ethnic identity and live smugly
in the prefab paradise of LA or wherever else, the noncultured nobility.
Boston still has clear distinctions between Europeans of differing descent,
an overwhelmingly Irish city, so Boston is in fact a city flooded with
"minorities" under a different definition.  The "Southern bigot" is in fact
likely to understand certain aspects of the black psyche better than other
whites.  Nonsoutherners who don't know any better put their ridiculous
observations into writing, as I remember vividly from another course I've
taken, which was discussed in clas as if the writing was completely correct.
Farmers are not a bunch of bigots riding around pickup trucks with guns.  
That is the bias of the city slicker.  Farmers lead lives in touch with nature.
PC people have shied away from agronomics, I see, since any leftist idea
translates into rightwing results and vice versa.  And let's not forget there
are still plenty of black farmers in the south.  In fact, the net migration of
blacks in the last decade has been toward the South, where often they encounter
less hostility.  When I went to the ethnic festival at Pittsburgh, PA, every
single republic & sub-republic in Eastern Europe was represented, a feat
culturally barren California could not perform.  So, my conclusion is that
Berkeley has a certain kind of diversity, among many other possible dimensions
of diversity.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: vagarwal@dis9002.shearson.com (Virendra Agarwal)
Subject: Re: Mixed-Race Births
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: Lehman Brothers
	<1993Jan16.193621.964@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:31:41 GMT


   johns@m.mscs.mu.edu (John Simms) writes:
   |I once calculated that if the rate of miscegination between "whites" and
   |"blacks" in the U.S. were to continue at historical rates, then in 200 years
   |the "black" gene pool would be more than 50% derived from "white" ancestors.
   |
   |And in the other direction, one of Benjamin Franklin's grandsons married a
   |Japanese woman.  By now her genes should be widely distributed throughout the
   |U.S. gene pool.

   I've read that a rather large percentage (1/4?) of people viewed as
   white in the USA have some native or black ancestry.

   Hmmm, wonder how "pure" the Afrikaner population in the racially
                               ^^^^^^^^^
	AFRIKANER is a dutch word for African but since it is given by EUROPEAN it
	must be a NEW word. Also, Europeans are willing to be called African (sorry,
        Afrikaner) since SOUTH AFRICA has GOLD MINES !!
	German word for HIGHWAY is "AUTO BAHN" but does it mean it is different?

   obsessed nation of South Africa is ...
   ^^^^^^^^
	That is an UNDERSTATEMENT !!
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
V. Agarwal
---------------------------------------------------------------
From: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Living on Planet Me)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Racial Harassment at Cal
Date: 21 Jan 1993 18:30:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: thedarktower.corp.sun.com


	underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe):
	> I don't want to sound like I'm being to hard on Mr. Gavrin.  I 
	> respect his opinion, but I vehemently disagree with them.  I know of 
	> a particular cultural group where many people have this view of racism 
	> (i.e. I don't like what you say; therefore, you are a racist.),

Oh you mean like, "I don't like your Chinese-cu view; therefore, you are
a baboon, an idiot, and a twit."

	>  but unfortunately many of them aren't able to discuss things with 
	> the same decorum as Mr. Gavrin.  Truly regrettable.

Yes, it's truly regrettable.

	Melinda
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Subject: Race and Elections Re: Racial Harassment at Cal
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Reply-To: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 03:21:11 GMT

robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson) writes:
|Yes, there was a long string of Asian male student presidents for ASUC, 
|getting along well enough with Mr. Chiang-Lin Tien.

Being asian (male or female) did seem to make it easier to get elected,
at least since 1987 or so.  The ASUC's transferable vote system made
it rather easy to see that many ballots were marked by race, not
political ideology.

|                                                    Speaking of which, are
|there any schools where ASUC senator campaigns have more obnoxious 
|equivalents?

Hmmm, were you around for the second Jeff Chang for president campaign?  :-)

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                                        timlee@netcom.com
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:11875 ucb.general:232
From: psb@soda.berkeley.edu (partha s. banerjee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ucb.general
Subject: Re: Racialized Relations at Cal...
Date: 22 Jan 1993 07:13:58 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1jlk3i$6bf@agate.berkeley.edu> ollie@ocf.berkeley.edu (Oliver Wang) writes:
>
>Getting back to Cal...it's painfully obvious that people here are not, by far,
>any less racist, sexist (or any -ist) than elsewhere.  Things like American
>Cultures helps but only like a bandage would help an amputated arm...it's
>better than nothing...but not by much.  Acceptance of differences cannot be
>passively taught, it has to be actively learned.             
>

You know this discussion of "comparative racism" (at UCB vs. Rest of World)
and this stuff about elitisms, and the germinating anecedote reminded me of
something an acquaintance told me:

he taugh a constitutional law class both here and at a state college. in this
class they discussed affirmative action.
interestingly enough those people opposed to AA here seemed highly defensive
and invariably defended their position in terms of why it harms minorities.
on the other hand, the people at the state college, who tended to be 
1. older students with more real world work experience 2. from less affluent 
background (than ucb students), in expressing their opposition to AA chose
to emphasize their outrage in terms of unfairness to them ... more of a
reverse discrim/denial of equal prot arg. rather than couching thier args
in consequntialist terms, although they seemed pretty clearly motivated by
the differntial treatment.

								--psb



-- 
/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\
|* Partha S. Banerjee				   Sic volo, Sic jubeo;	     *|
|* <psb@Berkeley.EDU> || <{spine}!ucbvax!psb>	   Stat pro ratione voluntas *|
\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/
From: andrew@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andrew Sung Hyun Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Racial Harassment at Cal
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:46:48 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

In article <1993Jan27.010750.930@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>[....]
>This is slander.  I have no clue as to whether Ms. Tseng is Chinese-ge.
>I never said that she was Chinese-ge.  If I suspected anything, I only
>suspected that she might be Chinese-cu, based on the way in which she
>derived her condemnation of the characters in Putnam Hall.
>
>But I do suspect that Mr. Park is somewhat Chinese-cu.

For these of you who still take D.Joe serious ....
Here is Djoe's explanation of his wonderfully conscise
defintion that he uses.  Let me ask Djoe for the n-th time
what exactly these mean....

>Legend-
>  -ge = in the sense of ethnicity (i.e. genetics)
>  -cu = in the sense of culture
>  -ci = in the sense of citizenship

Question #1)
Tell me DJoe, for a person to be called chines-ge what percentage of
his genetic should be Chinese.  I will make it easy for you:

    1) at least 25.00000000000000000001 %
    2) at least 33.33333333333333333334 %
    3) at least 50.00000000000000000001 %
    4) at least 66.66666666666666666667 %
    5) None or all of the above.

Question #2)
To be considered a Chinese-cu one must be:
 
    1) At least 25% Chinese culture and any combination
       of foreign cultures adding up to 75%.
    2) Only Han Chinese, other ethnic groups within
       China are not Chinese-cu, since some of them retain
       more than 50.0000001% of their original culture.
    3) Chinese living in America are Chinese-cu if they
       are 100% converted since, living in US and
       not accepting this superior culture is unforgivable.
    4) none or all of the above.

Question #3)
I think you got the idea...

This kinds of catagorization leads to meaningless prejudices,
and only clouds the discussion, which Djoe have been known to
consistently do.

I am eagerly waiting your reply to enlighten me.
Since you seem to write in volums, I will give you benefit
of doubt that you could read and comprehend what I wrote above.

Andrew Sung Hyun Kim

"O sancta simplicitas! In what strange simplification of falsification man 
lives!  ... How we have made everything around us clear and free and easy and 
simple!  How we have been able to give our senses a passport to everything 
superficial..."             [Beyond Good and Evil]  by F. Nietzsche
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Kung Fu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 10:02:08 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

They just showed the 1972 Kung Fu pilot movie last night on KBHK 44
and there's a new Kung Fu series out now set in Toronto with his
100% Caucasian/Euro/White son and Carradine. On the one hand, I 
thought it was kind of neat to have a Chinese-American western hero,
and a lot of Chinese had parts. On the other hand, I got all sorts
of wierd stereotype effects, and the song "Kung Fu Fighting" must
have been so bad that it's the only bad 70's song I seem to have
blanked from my memory. Kung Fu was evidently the inspiration for
Yoda from Star Wars. Any other folks out there with memories or
thoughts about the old or the new Kung Fu? Carradine isn't even
part Chinese (he did have a Kung Fu book though)
From: ollie@ocf.berkeley.edu (Oliver Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Something new...
Date: 22 Jan 1993 06:37:14 GMT
Organization: P.F.M. Prod.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbang.berkeley.edu

Q: Is there an Asian in American culture?  If so...what is it and who are some
representatives of it?  

Just something new to liven up the stagnating discussion...

"Once again it's on..."-I.C.

O-D.U.B. aka Ollie

P.S. To all bullsh*t pontificators...ya'll still haven't gotten the point...
I don't care if you run to Webster's or some tenured prof. to define your terms.I ask: What's the point?  Racism has never been concept ruled by the logical,
why don't you worry more about its consequences as opposed to its definitions.
Come on...if you want to flex your intellect, at least DO something substantial
with it.  Peace.
From: q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Racial Purity (w/ additional facts)
Date: 26 Jan 93 11:09:58 EST
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University

tyoon@husc8.harvard.edu (Tehshik Yoon) writes: 
> 
> Human children, whether "pure" or not,
> are products of a loving relationship (we hope) between two individuals. 
> Whether pure or mixed race, they are humans, and as such, deserve to be
> treated as such and not as cattle.
>

I think the sentiment here is well taken.  I want to refer people
to some important chapters on this issue.  Please read the
book "Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science" by
Martin Gardner.  He has a chapter in their with some history
and science about this falsehood of a "pure race"
Some books by Steve Jay Gould, or general genetics will help too.

The upshot of this is that there are *no* pure races among
Homo Sapiens  (although Gardner did say that the Lapps of upper
Sweden might be).  Now, there are of course levels of purity,
but there is nothing among Humans that even comes close to a
pure race.  Any human may have viable and healthy children
with any other human.

An earlier post about hybrid corn being related to inter-racial
children was ridiculous.  Hybrid corn comes from breeding
between two *different* (but closely related) *species*
of corn.  It only works for one generation.  It's similar
to a mule which is a hybrid of a horse and donkey.  Some
hybrids have desirable characteristics (mules are *very*
strong) but are typically unviable (mules are always sterile).
None of these genetic consideration have anything at all to
do with humans, as humans are one species.

I suspect that many have no idea what a "pure race" is.
First, although none exists among humans, it is theoretically possible.
In the pure race children would look, and be genetically virtually
*identical* to their parents. (It would sort of be like cloning)
Such lack of genetic diversity is likely to be a big disadvantage.
Nor is there any reason to expect that such a thing would have
any genetic advantage.  Right now, races among humans are defined
on some pretty flimsy cultural and aethetic considerations
(like skin color, facial features, hair quality) and that is *all*!!
The idea of "race, pure or not" in the conventional sense
has no relation to the idea of a "pure race" in the genetic sense.

Historically, the idea of "pure race" is used only as a political
tool.  There's even some interesting information about this
in the diaries of various Hitler cronies (like J. Gobbels, and
maybe also Albert Speer) where they record that in private even
Hitler himself said (paraphrase): Of course I know what the scientists
say that there is no such thing as an "Aryan Race".  But, my interest
in this is as a unifying instrument for German peoples, even though I know
just as well as any scientist that there no scientific basis for this.

I hope this mythology of "race" can be laid to rest by making 
everything as clear as possible.

Steve Seidman
From: johns@m.mscs.mu.edu (John Simms)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: ***WARNING*** Dr. King's speech has been censored
Date: 21 Jan 1993 19:58:11 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Department MSCS
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: m.mscs.mu.edu

In article <1993Jan20.015446.24057@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
webihara@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Wataru Ebihara) writes:
>
>Finally, though, I hope people will keep in mind the real
>"message" of Dr. King -- the "Dream".
>
>Please, let's work together at discussing the solutions to these
>problems.   
>
>Here's another quote from Dr. King:
>
>   "I have decided to stick with love.  Hate is too great
>    a burden to bear."  ---Martin Luther King, Jr.
>
>The more I deal with these issues, the more I see the wisdom of
>of those words.  Hate and negativity drains the human spirit where love and
>a positive sense can lift the spirit with a renewed energy. It
>might sound pretty cliche', but I think "love and kindness is
>the real answer". 

Here, here!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Subject: Re: Fuck Michael Crichton
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
	<QfKkDXG00Vpb02G0dO@andrew.cmu.edu> <1jfvlu$tl@spool.mu.edu>
	<IfLfllW00iUyQ1S5MR@andrew.cmu.edu> <24683@alice.att.com>
	<QfMnOIa00iV1045X4E@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:00:50 GMT

   Rikiya Asano <ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

   You should read me post more carefully! Obviously, you need an
   education! No. starting flames for what. So, that you can show how
   stttoooooopppiddd you are?

*Plonk!*

(gnus-kill "From" "Rikiya Asano <ra01\\+@andrew\\.cmu\\.edu>")

Ah, I feel better already...

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu