From: magus@drktowr.chi.il.us (Louis Giliberto)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Priorities for Coherent 4.0 development features
Date: 18 Nov 92 05:21:51 GMT
Organization: DarkTower Software
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Yikes!  I read this and wondered...

, Shannon Hendrix (shendrix@PCS.CNU.EDU) wrote:
: 
: for it.  Plus, no one hides information about Linux as MWC seems to do
: about the internals of Coherent.  No better way to alienate developers
: than to limit information about your OS.  Sucessful OS's have almost always
: had lots of detailed information available to programmers.  If the device

Tell that to microsoft about DOS, to Sun for SunOS, to AT&T and USL for
Unix, to IBM for OS/2, etc.

You don't need kernel source to be a developer.  Plus, source licenses
run in the thousands of dollars.  On top of it, you were complaining
before about the GNU policy that you had to distribute source with
the binaries.  Linux is the same way --- which way do you want it?

: driver kit for Coh 4.x.x had been release (for free) with Coh this past
: summer Coherent might have really taken off.  As it was, MWC shipped us
: an incomplete kernel, a lot of 16-bit binaries, bugs, missing functions,
: and no device driver kit.  I'm not saying it was malicious or anything but
: it has hurt them for sure.  They have a nice product which will sell itself.

It's called "development".  MWC is no Sun or USL or whatever.  Have some
patience, sheesh!  OS/2 has had plenty of problems, and that comes from
a giant corporation.  So has ms-windows.  OS's are full of bugs.  I dare
you to find one that isn't.

As for device drivers, why should they give the kit for free?  I wanted
to write a device driver for my SCSI card in my PS/2 microchannel machine,
so I called the vendor and bought the tech manual.  $30 for 15 pages.

Call IBM and ask them how much their tech manuals are.  Make sure
you're sitting down when you do.  They are selling you proprietary
information when companies sell you internals and stuff.  You will bne
sure to pay $$$$$'s for it.  If you want a source license from MWC, call
them and ask.  Maybe they'll sell you one.  

: They just need to advertise it more, provide *VERY* detailed and generous
: information about it, and get that device driver kit out.  Heavy duty
: courting of universities and companies would help too.  Copies to students
: and professors with device driver kit and some development stuff for around
: half price would help too.  If a student can get Linux (which is almost
: good enought to give to a newbie now, I have) for free with great compilers,
: X11R5, networking, etc. or Coherent with none of that for $100 what do you
: think he/she will do?  Plus, MWC would be buying votes later on when that
: student gets a job and his boss says "What OS do you recommend?"  If MWC
: gives a little when he is a student, he might be more inclined to use it
: at work.  Apple is doing this now (although they are still too dang much...)
: and UNIX owes its rising popularity to the fact that students used it for
: free in college and now work in influential positions throughout
: corporate america.  IBM and Msoft would like to kill UNIX but I wonder if
: they can...

Er, I'm confused.  Microsoft makes Xenix, and IBM makes AIX.  Why would
they want to kill Unix?  In fact OS/2 is supposed to run on Mach which
is licensed (I believe) partly by USL (Unix Systems Laboratories - a 
division of AT&T).  

Also, if I were to tell my boss to use Linux, and there was a problem,
and he said "give me the tech support number" what am I supposed to
give him, "ftp.uu.net"?  Tell him "I'll post it and we'll have the
answer in a week"?  You try it and let me know how it turns out....

I agree, Linux is great.  When it is used properly.  I would never use
it in a business environment.  I would definitely use it at home or in
school if I had the time to fiddle with it and FTP/news access to
patch it.

I don't mean to bash you, but I think some of your criticisms are unfounded.

In fact, I'm getting sick of reading Coherent bashing here.  I don't
think that's the purpose of comp.os.coherent.  I come here to get support,
help people, and, yes, criticize, but constructively and not say "XXXX is
better because it has ZZZZZ".  

You don't see us coherent people bashing Linux over there, and even
Linus doesn't exactly "bash" but correct misconceptions about Linux
and kind of just stick a thorn in once in a while.

I would ask that the anti-Coherent comments be restricted to
comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit or wherever.  Anyone second this motion?

-Louis
--
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 Louis J. Giliberto, Jr.   ! magus@drktowr.chi.il.us
   -sysadmin drktowr       ! lgilibe@orion.it.luc.edu
  Chicago, IL  USA         ! 
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Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent