HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mellon@ncd.com (Ted Lemon)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
Subject: Re: Dylan's take off!?
Date: 28 Jan 93 03:41:01 GMT
             <199301270940.AA00230@miles.ircam.fr>


Unfortunately, Dylan isn't going to go anywhere until people like you and me
have a sample implementation in our hot little hands.   I realize that the
specification isn't entirely formalized yet, and so anything that was
delivered now could not guarantee source-level compatibility with the final
version, but that's been true of C++ since forever, and look at how quickly
it's infested (I mean spread through) the community.   Even C didn't reach
its current, almost-useful form until quite recently, and yet somehow we
muddle through.

I think that if Apple is serious about this, it's time the rubber hit the
road.

				_MelloN_
Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: Is GC really even necessary??
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:55:14 GMT

barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
>In article <MHW.93Jan21005548@cslab0a.cs.brown.edu> mhw@cs.brown.edu (Mark Weaver) writes:
>>What is the problem with user code synthesizing pointers to kernel
>>memory if there is hardware-level memory protection that prevents
>>access to such memory?

>I actually worked on one Multics program that allowed this.  Upon entry to
>one of these routines, it would check that the pointer pointed to a valid
>object of the expected type (each object had a header that included a short
>string that identified the type) that was in the appropriate range of
>memory for these objects.  It was pretty kludgey.  This was in a ring-2
>library, not the kernel, so at least it didn't have to worry about whether
>the pointers pointed to objects belonging to a different process.

       UNIVAC did that in OS/1100 in one release, validating test-and-set
operations that way.  This introduced a security hole.  If you created a
process (what would today be called a thread) and loaded its registers
up with carefully chosen values, then had it wait for something, you could
create, in kernel memory, a data pattern which looked like a valid kernel
object, because the registers of the process were saved in a block of kernel
memory allocated from the kernel's storage allocator.  In theory, then,
one could create a test-and-set operation with a pointer to the address of
that register save area, and get the kernel to operate on your data as
if it were the kernel's.  

       So that's not a suitable way of handling cross-domain pointers unless
you have some way to tag memory block headers that can't be faked.

					John Nagle
From: Jonathan.Bachrach@ircam.fr (Jonathan Bachrach)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
Subject: Dylan's take off!?
Date: 27 Jan 93 09:40:13 GMT

I am trying to start a Dylan programming revolution at my work.  To
me, Dylan is a dream come true.  To other people, Dylan looks good but
everybody wants to know WILL DYLAN TAKE OFF?  Dylan's future is quite
uncertain given that there are no viable implementations and that
Apple hasn't even announced a Dylan product.  Thus I find myself
without the sort of ammo needed to put the skeptics' at ease.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me convince the management.  I feel that
Dylan will far surpass Common Lisp in popularity, but my educated
guess may not be enough.  Any words of wisdom, insights, or
information (e.g., will apple release a product and/or are there
commercial products forthcoming) would greatly be appreciated!

jonathan bachrach
From: sef@sef-pmax.slisp.cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Dylan's take off!?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:43:34 GMT


    From: Jonathan.Bachrach@ircam.fr (Jonathan Bachrach)
    
    I am trying to start a Dylan programming revolution at my work.  To
    me, Dylan is a dream come true.  To other people, Dylan looks good but
    everybody wants to know WILL DYLAN TAKE OFF?  Dylan's future is quite
    uncertain given that there are no viable implementations and that
    Apple hasn't even announced a Dylan product.  Thus I find myself
    without the sort of ammo needed to put the skeptics' at ease.
    
The best strategy is probably to wait until Dylan is real (and maybe help
it to become real) and *then* try to persuade the skeptics that it's
something they want to use -- if any persuading is needed at that point.

-- Scott

===========================================================================
Scott E. Fahlman			Internet:  sef+@cs.cmu.edu
Senior Research Scientist		Phone:     412 268-2575
School of Computer Science              Fax:       412 681-5739
Carnegie Mellon University		Latitude:  40:26:33 N
5000 Forbes Avenue			Longitude: 79:56:48 W
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
===========================================================================

Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
From: mhw@cs.brown.edu (Mark Weaver)
Subject: Re: Is GC really even necessary??
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Brown University
	<1jk14kINNeb@early-bird.think.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 05:55:48 GMT

In article <1jk14kINNeb@early-bird.think.com> barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
> In systems like Genera (the Symbolics Lisp Machine OS), these objects are
> represented in OO fashion, with direct references to the data structures.
> Therefore, the fact that they're collected in a linked list doesn't affect
> the efficiency of accessing them.  This type of solution, where pointers to
> kernel objects are passed in from user code, only works well on systems
> with no kernel protection (like Genera) or with capabilities; otherwise,
> user code could synthesize pointers to kernel memory that it shouldn't have
> access to.

What is the problem with user code synthesizing pointers to kernel
memory if there is hardware-level memory protection that prevents
access to such memory?
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet/CSnet: mhw@cs.brown.edu        | Mark Weaver
BITNET: mhw@browncs.bitnet              | Box 2160, Brown University
UUCP: uunet!brunix!mhw                  | Providence, RI 02912-2160
Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
From: Jeremy John Ahouse <ahouse@hydra.rose.brandeis.edu>
Subject: getting "the" manual
X-Xxdate: Fri, 22 Jan 93 00: 00:12 GMT
Organization: Center for Complex Systems
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:56:45 GMT

where can I get:
"Dylan(TM) an object-oriented dynamic language" by 
Apple Computer Eastern Research and Technology, April 1992.

	Thanks

       	Jeremy John Ahouse
        	Center for Complex Systems and Biology Dept
        	Brandeis University
        	Waltham, MA 02254-9110

        	(617) 736-4954
        	email: ahouse@hydra.rose.brandeis.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
From: mkant+@cs.cmu.edu (Mark Kantrowitz)
Subject: Re: OSs written in Lisp (was: Is GC really even necessary?)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:19:36 GMT

In article <BRENT.93Jan20131623@rcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com> brent@ssd.csd.harris.com (Brent Benson) writes:
>This got me thinking.  Is there any OS work being done in Lisp or
>Lisp-like languages for stock (non-Lisp machine) hardware?  I would
>appreciate references if you have them.  I'm well aware of the
>advantages of doing compiler work in Lisp---what are the advantages
>and disadvantages of doing OS work in Lisp?

I don't know about OS work being done in Lisp, but certain aspects of
the MACH kernel were redone in a continuation-passing style a few
years ago, and got a significant speed boost as a result.

--mark
Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
From: gandalf@sabrina.dei.unipd.it (ROBERTO AVANZI)
Subject: Re: OSs written in Lisp (was: Is GC really even necessary?)
Organization: D.E.I. Universita' di Padova, Italia
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:48:34 GMT

In article <BRENT.93Jan20131623@rcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com> brent@ssd.csd.harris.com (Brent Benson) writes:
>barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
>
>> In systems like Genera (the Symbolics Lisp Machine OS), these
>> objects are represented in OO fashion, with direct references to the
>> data structures....
>
>This got me thinking.  Is there any OS work being done in Lisp or
>Lisp-like languages for stock (non-Lisp machine) hardware?  I would
>appreciate references if you have them.  I'm well aware of the
>advantages of doing compiler work in Lisp---what are the advantages
>and disadvantages of doing OS work in Lisp?
>
>--
>Brent Benson                     
>Harris Computer Systems

GNU Emacs, add it a task scheduler and a file system, and you have an operating
system :-P , but you have also an analyst with it for free !!!




only joking... for the real qustion dunno...
Roberto Avanzi
From: S.J.Nuttall@open.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
Subject: Windows3 OS/2 & Mac Dylan
Date: 21 Jan 93 11:03:06 GMT

We at Procyon Research Limited are looking for collaborators to market
Dylan for Windowss3 OS/2 & Mac. We can rapidly offer a high-performance
Dylan to an interested partner. We are looking for a partner who can
market the product.

We would convert Procyon Common Lisp into Dylan. Procyon Common Lisp is a
mature Common Lisp with full application portability across Windows3 OS/2
and Macintosh. It has won IBM approval as a 32 Bit os/2 application, was
reviewed in the international section of BYTE July 1992 and featureed the
first commercial implementation of CLOS in 1989. Procyon includes full
Common Lisp, Clos with Meta-Object Protocol, generational garbage colection
common graphics and a full programming environment.

Procyon Research Ltd.
From: hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu (Meinhard E. Mayer (Hardy))
Subject: Re: Windows3 OS/2 & Mac Dylan
In-reply-to: S.J.Nuttall@open.ac.uk's message of 21 Jan 93 11:03:06 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
Organization: Department of Physics, UC Irvine, CA 92717-4575, USA
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:50:01 GMT

In article <9301211104.AA06758@brazil.cambridge.apple.com> S.J.Nuttall@open.ac.uk writes:


???   We at Procyon Research Limited are looking for collaborators to market
???   Dylan for Windowss3 OS/2 & Mac. We can rapidly offer a high-performance
???   Dylan to an interested partner. We are looking for a partner who can
???   market the product.
Too late for the Mac!
Marc Feeley's Macgambit-1.9-1 and the macggambit-thomas interpreter
are already available and are FREE!
--
Hardy 
-----
Meinhard E. Mayer,  Department of Physics, UC Irvine 
e-mail: hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu (preferred) or MMAYER@UCI.BITNET
!!!! NO NEXTMAIL TO THESE ADDRESSES, PLEASE !!!!!
Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
From: bhayes@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Barry Hayes)
Subject: Allocation realms
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:52:54 GMT

There are advantages to letting an application telling the collector
something about the objects it allocates, but I don't think the people
in collector-land could even tell you what they want to know.

1) Object life-time.  Sure, that would be nice.  Even nearness, like
"this object has about the lifetime of that object" would be great.

But how about this. . .

2) Written a bunch.  Most collectors these days pay some kind of price
for writes to objects.  If I could put all the "hot objects" in a few
pages I would spend less time re-building the information from
collection to collection.

3) Member of some application.  Ever ask yourself if it makes sense to
have the processor schedule a new application when the old one's
objects were still young?  The new process will allocate stuff, the
other application's objects will get aged and tenured.

Anyway.  I don't believe the collector folks could tell you what "the
important application information" would be, even for a single
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.dylan
Subject: Re: Is GC really even necessary??
Date: 21 Jan 1993 10:36:29 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gandalf.think.com

In article <MHW.93Jan21005548@cslab0a.cs.brown.edu> mhw@cs.brown.edu (Mark Weaver) writes:
>What is the problem with user code synthesizing pointers to kernel
>memory if there is hardware-level memory protection that prevents
>access to such memory?

The protection only works if the pointer is being used from user code.  But
if it's passed in as a parameter to a system call, the pointer will be used
from system code, which *does* have such access.  In fact, that's the
intent: instead of open() returning an index into a file table, it would
return a pointer to an actual kernel stream object.  But this means that
the kernel has to trust pointers coming back in from user code.  

I actually worked on one Multics program that allowed this.  Upon entry to
one of these routines, it would check that the pointer pointed to a valid
object of the expected type (each object had a header that included a short
string that identified the type) that was in the appropriate range of
memory for these objects.  It was pretty kludgey.  This was in a ring-2
library, not the kernel, so at least it didn't have to worry about whether
the pointers pointed to objects belonging to a different process.
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
Newsgroups: comp.lang.hermes
From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: a FQA for Hermes?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:55:08 GMT

      There's been little new information about Hermes here in some time.
Did Hermes die in the last round of IBM layoffs?

					John Nagle
Newsgroups: comp.lang.hermes
From: shengru@cs.uno.edu (Shengru Tu)
Subject: a FQA for Hermes?
Organization: University of New Orleans
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:54:32 GMT


Is there a FQA file about Hermes?  I am thinking of a distributed implemention
of some scientific computation using Hermes, so that I need support of arrays
and some functions.  Any suggestion?  Can a Fortran routine or other high
level lang routines be plug into a process module?

Thank you in advance for your advice.

S.T.
From: ken@comanche.sbi.com (Ken Jones - Consultant)
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
Subject: DCE/DME what is it.
Date: 24 Jan 93 19:54:20 GMT
Reply-To: ken@comanche.sbi.com (Ken Jones - Consultant)

Oh wise netland gurus:

What is DCE and DME? I heard that OSF had come up with some standards
for distributed computing. Are these the names for them? Does DCE/DME
include an XDR like portion?

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Ken Jones                                                           |
|   Expert Database Systems, Inc.                                       |
|   ken@mr_magoo.sbi.com              "Where the future begins tomorrow |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
From: CITCHAS@mizzou1.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: TELNET Protocol
Organization: University of Missouri
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 10:04:29 CST

In article <xeno.727899649@pv0558.vincent.iastate.edu>
xeno@iastate.edu (Gary L Snethen) writes:
 
>
>I have been searching for a reference to the TELNET protocol (more
>specifically, a document explaining how to program hosts to change modes,
>get terminal attributes, etc. on/from the TELNET client.)  I am sorry
>if this seems an inappropriate place to post such a question, but I have
>been searching for such a document for a long time, and am always referred
>to false leads...  I would think this would be a commonplace document, as
>so many programs make use of TELNET's abilities, but I simply cannot find
>it.  If someone would be so kind as to email me an FTP site/man page (heaven
>forbid)/etc...  where I can find such a reference, I would GREATLY appreciate
>it.
 
FTP to NIC.DDN.MIL. It's been a while since I looked around there,
but I know they have all the RFP documents. You should find some
help with your telnet question in the RFPs that deal with telnet.
 
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
From: Steinar Kj{rnsr|d <steinar@ifi.uio.no>
Subject: Re: DCE/DME what is it.
        Jan 93 19:54:20 GMT
To: ken@comanche.sbi.com (Ken Jones - Consultant)
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:48:00 GMT
Originator: steinar@fram.ifi.uio.no

In article <1429@pivot-sts.sbi.com> ken@comanche.sbi.com (Ken Jones - Consultant) writes:

> Oh wise netland gurus:
> 
> What is DCE and DME? I heard that OSF had come up with some standards
> for distributed computing. Are these the names for them? Does DCE/DME
> include an XDR like portion?
> 
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |   Ken Jones                                                           |
> |   Expert Database Systems, Inc.                                       |
> |   ken@mr_magoo.sbi.com              "Where the future begins tomorrow |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+

The answer to your two last questions is ~YES. However, you should join
the two newsgroups comp.unix.osf.misc and comp.unix.osf.osf1 if you
are interested in OSF technologies. Btw, there is an ongoing discussion
there now on the future of DCE.

I think OSF is an truly open organization. They publish a lot of 
documentation, booklets, white papers and the quarterly newsletter
"OPEN LINE". Maybe I'm wrong, but I *think* you can get most of this
free of charge, at least the newsletter and white papers.

You could try to send an email to Joel Richman (joel@osf.org), the 
editor of OPEN LINE and ask for a subscription. Good luck!

 | Steinar Kjaernsroed	Dpt. of Informatics	email:steinar@ifi.uio.no
 |			University of Oslo,               or
 |                      NORWAY                        ..!mcsun!ifi!steinar
Newsgroups: comp.client-server,comp.unix.osf.osf1
From: robert@triton.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Angelino)
Subject: What platforms has OSF DCE been ported to???
Reply-To: robert@triton.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena CA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:37:03 GMT

I know DEC has OSF 1 running on Decs and Alphas.  I'm trying to find
other vendors as well if they exist??

thanks

-robert
Newsgroups: comp.client-server,comp.databases
From: bakker@cs.rulimburg.nl (Harm Bakker)
Subject: *** Q: Distributed client/server database ***
Keywords: distributed database, client/server
Organization: University of Limburg, Maastricht
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:00:52 GMT


Dear netters,

I have a question regarding the setup of a database for a distributed
organization.
The question has come up in a project we're doing for the regional police
department in Limburg (the Netherlands).

Situation:
The police department is a regional organization with about 1500 people.
It is divided into five districts, each district having 5 or 6 so-called
'base stations'.
So there is one regional office, five district offices and about 25 base
stations.
At each level of the organization (regional, district, base station)
police officers should be able to work with a database to enter
data, such as criminal facts etc.
On the district and regional level, managers should be able to extract
management information from the base stations' and districts' databases.
The operational environment consists of Unix-machines (workstations or PCs,
mini's).

Questions:
What is good literature on this subject?
Does anybody have any information / experience on this subject?
What would be a good setup for the organization of the databases?
Is client/server technology appropriate here?
Are there database manufacturers selling distributed databases?
What are the pitfalls?

Any pointers are welcome...
--
Harm Bakker                                            bakker@cs.rulimburg.nl
Dept. of Computer Science, Fac. of General Sciences
State University of Limburg
P.O. Box 616   6200 MD  Maastricht   Netherlands
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
From: restock@ns.pacbell.com (Bob Stockwell)
Subject: SUN RPC on Tandem Guardian?
Organization: Pacific * Bell
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:54:26 GMT

Does anybody know of an implementation of SUN's RPC on a Tandem
Guardian Platform?

--
Thanks,
Bob


Bob Stockwell
Pacific Bell
510/901-9702
restock@pacbell.com
From: jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens)
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
Subject: Re: DCE/DME what is it.
Date: 26 Jan 1993 14:57:47 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pit-manager.mit.edu

In article <1429@pivot-sts.sbi.com>, ken@comanche.sbi.com (Ken Jones - Consultant) writes:
|> What is DCE and DME?

DCE == "Distributed Computing Environment"
DME == "Distributed Management Environment"

DCE is the low-level support for distributed computing, including RPC support
and authentication (using Kerberos V5).

DME, which is built on top of DCE, provides management functions, such as
network management and user account management.  It's biggest component,
I think, is the Tivoli/Works object-oriented management environment.

|> I heard that OSF had come up with some standards
|> for distributed computing. Are these the names for them?

Yes.

|> Does DCE/DME
|> include an XDR like portion?

Yes.

-- 
Jonathan Kamens                                         jik@MIT.Edu
Aktis, Inc.                                    Moderator, *.answers
Newsgroups: comp.client-server,comp.os.vms
From: ftuncel@maytag.uwaterloo.ca (Frances  Tuncel)
Subject: Looking for an implementation of SUN RPC for DEC VMS
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:30:11 GMT


I'm looking for an implementation of SUN RPC for DEC VMS.  Does
anyone know if such a thing exists and where I might be able
to get more information about it.

Thanks.
From: mamros@athena.lkg.dec.com (Shawn Mamros)
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
Subject: Re: TELNET Protocol
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:53:53 GMT
Reply-To: mamros@athena.lkg.dec.com (Shawn Mamros)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


RFCs are available via FTP to ftp.nisc.sri.com.  Start with the file
rfc/rfc-index.txt - it lists all of the RFCs in reverse order (i.e., most
recent first).

-Shawn Mamros
E-mail to: mamros@athena.lkg.dec.com
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
From: CITCHAS@mizzou1.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Client-server computing over a dial-up line
Organization: University of Missouri
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 09:49:48 CST

In article <1993Jan26.182554.6795@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>
cttan@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (cttan@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg) writes:
 
>
>Hi,
>        Is it possible to perform client-server computing over a dial-up line?
>If yes, I would like to know if there is any software that supports this and where to obtain it.
 
There exist TCP/IP protocols for dial line operation, namely SLIP
and PPP. So, since TCP/IP higher layer functions like Telnet and
FTP are client/sever, then I'd say any client/server application
using TCP/IP (eg. TCP) transport could operate over a dial connection
via SLIP or PPP.
 
Your question is pretty broad. The answer is yes. Specifically,
TCP/IP SLIP would be one way to do it. No doubt there are others.
From: johng@informix.com (John Galloway)
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
Subject: Client-Server trade show/conference in SJ next week?
Date: 22 Jan 93 07:52:21 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Galloway Research
Originator: johng@godzilla

Is there some such do going on the 26th-27th in the San Jose Convention
Center?  I thought I had a registration/freebie ticket but can not find it
and someone asked if I could stop by and chat.  If you know the when/where
of this event please email me.   thanks.
	-jrg

-- 
internet    jrg@galloway.sj.ca.us  John R. Galloway, Jr  795 Beaver Creek Way
internet    johng@informix.com     CEO...receptionist    San Jose, CA   95133
applelink   D3413                  Galloway Research     (408) 259-2490