HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: SERTEL@ibm.gwdg.de
Subject: Re: Masr effect
Organization: GWDG, Goettingen
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:42:39 MEZ

My "Backstage news about the EUROSKEPTICS Proceedings"
will soon disappear from this board. There was no reply,
Dr. Nienhuys did not answer my questions and I don't even know
whether anyone read my   message. Another long report about
Mars effect research posted to this board had no response. Is this the wrong
newsgroup for such messages or would you suggest another
reason explaining the absence of reactions?
 
Suitbert Ertel
Institut fuer Psychologie. Goettingen. Germany.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone)
Subject: John Winston and Astral Intelligence
Keywords: His medication should kick in any time now..
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:18:58 GMT



I find Johnny "Whack-O" Winston's claims of posessing
"Astral Intelligence" to be quite believable.

After all, you can be DAMNED sure he hasn't got any
REAL intelligence....

[Are your meds starting to kick in yet, Johnny?]

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
From: Terry.Preston@f207.n914.z8.rbbs-net.ORG (Terry Preston)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: The 2nd amendment- part 3
Date: 11 Nov 92 07:04:03 GMT

<Continued from previous message>


As with 'Scott' and 'Cruikshank' your use of this section appears to
work on behalf of gun ownership regulation.  If you're supporting this
section of federal law to justify your view of the popular militia, then
you're arguing that the Second Amendment's definition of 'the militia'
can be limited by Congress, as it surely did here.  If Congress can
restrict the 'militia' at anyone who is  not  a male between the ages of
17 and 45 is not a member of the militia, why not limit it further, only
provide those  identified  members of the 'militia' with the right to
bear arms?

TC>In every Supreme Court case related directly to the 2nd (precious
TC>few), and in every case even marginally connected, the Court has
TC>ruled that either:

TC>     1)  The 2nd protects the right of the individual citizen to keep
TC>         and bear arms.

TC>     2)  The militia is composed of all able-bodied citizens.

Under the law you have cited here, this is explicitly  not  the case.

I suspect that the material you're quoting from is some broadside put
out by the NRA or one of its fellow traveller organizations.  These
groups routinely publish this nonsense, full of these outrageous
misinterpretations of the law, because it so impresses all of those
without the time, resources or training to properly review it.

TC>And on and on and on .........

Indeed.  I suspect more of this sort of misdirection to reach the public
as the new Congress convenes and begins to consider legislation like the
Brady Bill, a common-sense approach to gun ownership that will help keep
guns out of the hands of criminals.  Hopefully, a new Congress and a
strong president will be able to resist the NRA and enact the Brady Bill
and any other relevant legislation into law.

Now, gentle readers, I return you to your regularly scheduled echo, and
I thank you for your forbearance.
   
 * DeLuxe  1.21 #11899 * 

 * Origin: The Skeptic's Board in San Mateo - Bay Area Skeptics (8:914/207)
From: byczko@evax.gdc.com
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Astral 1
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:45:52 GMT
Organization: General DataComm, Middlebury CT


	Here in skeptic land you may encounter teachings concerning
out of body travel; astral projection. Take note of the means used to
connect the spiritual body to the physical. Shown below:

>Your astral body is connected to your physical body by what is called the 
>silver cord. Its sort of a thin piece of nearly invisible material that 
>stretches out between your physical body and your astral body.  This all is 

	The power or means to perform this is not clearly stated. However
techniques such as meditation(TM), channeling, spirit guides, chants, and 
other forms of spiritism are associated with this. 

	For a soul to travel in the spiritual realm requires power 
from that domain. That silver cord mentioned could be the power; some
spiritual entity.

	Where is this power from? Is it of God? The bible clearly denounces
spiritism as wickedness. Those advocating occult practices may appear
psychotic; however denial of the super-natural assumes our understanding
of the natural domain is sufficient to define the spiritual. In like
fashion, do not accept any teaching as truth if it happens to work.

	My advise to the doubting and believing alike: don't invite
spirits to your soul in any attempt receive power. Do invite the Holy
Spirit by receiving Jesus. If you posses such abilities, renounce
them! What is your soul worth?

						Joe Byczko


Standard Disclaimer: Not my employers opinion.


Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: bwebster@pages.com (Bruce F. Webster)
Subject: Re: Innumeracy, humorous ... maybe.
Reply-To: bwebster@pages.com
Organization: Banzai Research Institute
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:49:07 GMT

In article <2931105518.0.p00168@psilink.com> "James F. Tims"  
<p00168@psilink.com> writes:
> 
> Don't the numbers pop out of six separate containers?

Nope; otherwise, you could get duplicate numbers (e.g., 1, 4, 4, 37, 42, 42).  
In fact, the odds of picking six unique numbers in such a situation is only  
about 73% (48*47*46*45*44/[49^5]). 

This reminds me of a great true story. A friend of mine, Wayne Holder, had a  
job one summer while in college installing a security system at an ammunition  
depot out in Nevada somewhere. One of his co-workers, also from out of state,  
spend all his free hours in the casino in the local (small) town, tracking the  
on-going Keno game (whose numbers, like the lottery or Bingo, were picked  
randomly from a collection of numbered balls). He did this for several weeks,  
hoping to note statistical tendencies due to minor imperfections in the balls,  
so he could have a greater chance of winning. As he was about ready to start  
applying the knowledge gained through countless tedious hours, he mentioned his  
hard work to a friend who lived there.  Said friend, with a mixture of sadness  
and amusement, informed him that the casino used a different set of balls every  
day....    ..bruce..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce F. Webster             | No! I am not Bill Gates, nor would I want to be;
Chief Technical Officer      | I'd rather parse the fish than own the knife;
Pages Software Inc           | (Imagine! Having moby bux but chained
bwebster@pages.com           | to forty million lusers, what a life...)
#import <pages/disclaimer.h> |     -- Jeff Duntemann
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Re: Lotteries (was Re: Innumeracy, humorous ... maybe.)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:10:15 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <GERRY.92Nov17131106@onion.cmu.edu> gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:

>Actually, I have always wondered about lotteries.  The Jackpot is
>typically some minimum prize ($1M) or half the value of all tickets
>purchased, which ever is greater.  If the prize amount exceeds $1M,
>the state pays off over a 20 year period.  So, using simple time value
>of money formulas (which I of course don't have in front of me so I'll
>guess) the present value (PV) of a series of payments at say 6%
>interest for 20 years is probably not more than 10 times the yearly
>payment.  That is, the state needs only to invest half the amount of
>the prize to pay out the prize amount over time.  So, given this and 
>the fact that they pay "50%" of the intake in prizes, etc, where does
>all of that lottery money go?  

>--
>Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu)    | The vanity and presumption of governing
>Field Robotics Center,          | beyond the grave, is the most ridiculous
>Carnegie Mellon University      | and insolent of all tyrannies.  Man has no
>Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | property in man; neither has any generation
>(412) 268-3856                  | property in the generations that are to
>                                | follow.  Thomas Paine
>The opinions expressed are mine | 
>and do not reflect the official | 
>position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | 
>or any other organization.      |

  That "50%" figure includes ALL the prizes, not just the jackpot.  
Don't forget, in a six-number lottery there are also prizes for 
getting three, four, or five numbers right.
 
-- 
Carl Fink          carlf@panix.com, C.FINK4(GEnie), or CF427620I@LIUVAX.BITNET
  "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
  inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter
  the state of facts and evidence"     --      John Adams
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Innumeracy, humorous ... maybe.
Date: 18 Nov 1992 15:06:48 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <2931105518.0.p00168@psilink.com>, "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:
>Don't the numbers pop out of six separate containers?
>Assuming that every jar has all 49 numbers, the odds become 6!/49**6,
>or 1/19,223,881.  Or am I missing something?

No, the drawing is from a set of 49 balls WITHOUT REPLACEMENT.  There isn't
even a way to pick the same number twice on the lottery forms.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Subject: Lotteries  (was Re: Innumeracy, humorous ... maybe.)
Reply-To: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:11:06 GMT

Actually, I have always wondered about lotteries.  The Jackpot is
typically some minimum prize ($1M) or half the value of all tickets
purchased, which ever is greater.  If the prize amount exceeds $1M,
the state pays off over a 20 year period.  So, using simple time value
of money formulas (which I of course don't have in front of me so I'll
guess) the present value (PV) of a series of payments at say 6%
interest for 20 years is probably not more than 10 times the yearly
payment.  That is, the state needs only to invest half the amount of
the prize to pay out the prize amount over time.  So, given this and 
the fact that they pay "50%" of the intake in prizes, etc, where does
all of that lottery money go?  

--
Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu)    | The vanity and presumption of governing
Field Robotics Center,          | beyond the grave, is the most ridiculous
Carnegie Mellon University      | and insolent of all tyrannies.  Man has no
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | property in man; neither has any generation
(412) 268-3856                  | property in the generations that are to
                                | follow.  Thomas Paine
The opinions expressed are mine | 
and do not reflect the official | 
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | 
or any other organization.      | 
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Religion is great!
Reply-To: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:34:00 GMT

In article <LEET.92Nov17090719@dove.ims.com>, leet@ims.com (Lee Thomas) writes:
>>>>>> On 16 Nov 92  09:28:56, David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org said:
>
>
>It might be helpful if you stopped reading Karl Marx for a while, and
>picked up a biography of Martin Luther instead.  Focus especially on
>the sale of indulgences, and why Luther opposed that practice ...
>
>--
>Lee Thomas,  leet@ims.com      | "But they that will be rich fall into

And after that focus on Luther's rabid anti-semitism, second, perhaps,
only to Hitler's.  Apparently his relationship with God demanded that
he engage in stereotyping, scapegoating and hatred and other typically
Christian practices.

Erik Timmerman
From: David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Religion is great!
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov  5 1992
Date: 16 Nov 92  09:28:56

Who: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO)
ID: 1992Nov11.030810.1913@hfsi.uucp
 
[cut much of my crap here]
 
DR> "Is it moral to go on TV and fake hundreds of thousands
DR> into believing you can heal sick people, with the result
DR> that the "healed" died later because they did not seek REAL
DR> help? How do Christians justify that death? Were they doing
DR> God's work, thus one or two deaths are acceptable? The ring-
DR> leaders of Christianity are oh so willing to have their
DR> followers pay the price, in blood, for the leader's sick,
DR> flawed brand of morality.
 
JA-FSO> "If they are causing the death of people who could have
JA-FSO> sought medical advice, then it would not seem to me to
JA-FSO> be moral. But you talked about intent. What would be
JA-FSO> the intent be of such a preacher?
 
Hi! Read "Don't Call me Brother."
 
The intent is to con people into handing over large sums of money.
With it goes sex with whores, power over others, political power
in society, estates to live on, drugs to snort, strings to pull.
This has always been the intent of the rulers of all religions;
even though there are sometimes a few genuine followers, one will
never find genuine leaders in any religion. It is POWER they seek,
not some "spirituality."
 
If you could show some evidence that I am wrong, I will honestly
look it over. But I won't hold my breath waiting for it (SMILE!).
 
Don't get me wrong. Religion is GREAT. I can't think of any better
way to control the ignorant, hungry masses. Use religion to keep
them stupid, ignorant, and in poverty, while the Ruling Class
lives off of them like parasites. Religion keeps the poor from
eatting the rich. Since I am one of the rich, I owe a great
deal to all religions.
 
JA-FSO> John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:  ata@hfsi.com
JA-FSO> HFS, Inc.               VA20     |     UUCP:  uunet!hfsi!ata
JA-FSO> 7900 Westpark Drive    MS:601    |    Voice:  (703) 827-6810
JA-FSO> McLean, VA  22102                |      FAX:  (703) 827-3729

--- Maximus 2.00
From: mcbean@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: AIDS and the CIA (was Question)
Date: 18 Nov 92 01:36:18 GMT
Followup-To: sci.skeptic
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <97979@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
> In article <1992Nov17.021106.10158@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, mcbean@vax writes:
>>Am I missing sonething here?
> 
> Yes.  A few neurons.  Maybe some spare glia.

Thanks for the mature response...

> 
>>			       They didn't create syphillis but they
>>sure as hell experimented with it, so why couldn't AIDS experiments
>>have been conducted (irrespective of whether they did or not).
> 
> With what?  On what?  Where was there the faintest clue that there
> was this very slow acting immune compromising sexually transmitted
> virus out there?  WHERE?

Could it be possible that they were just f**king around not sure what they were
dealing with?

> 
>>It would seem logical that it wasn't genetically engineered but that
>>don't stop them from injecting it...
> 
> Tell us how they found it first.

I was actually trying to get some information on what mayor may not have
occurred, not engage in some nitpicking, childish diatribe.  I do believe
somebody posted a reference that retroviruses were first identified in 1910 on
scaa.  No need to get all worked up my friend, like I said I was merely trying
to have a discussion, and you still haven't really answered any of the original
questions.

I don't have any strong background in biological sciences, so if I am missing
something rather obvious maybe you would be kind enough to do what my missing
neurons and ganglia would have done..

> -- 
> -Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

David McBean (david%wsi@engineering.oxford.ac.uk)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Biblical Inerrancy?
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:32:01 GMT

In article <GERRY.92Nov20125743@onion.cmu.edu> gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:
>Question:  Can soemthing that is claimed to be literally innerrant
>make use of idiom?
>Using a previous example: If I were the author of the bible and I
>wanted to speak of a heavy rain, could I have written, "It rained acts
>and dogs"?   Current usage permits this construction as being
>symatically equivelant to heavy rain, but what about future readers? 

If God writes the Bible, he should be able to write (or at least to inspire)
the use of those idioms that don't happen to change with time.

(Otherwise, I could just as well say "hm, it says Jesus rose from the dead.
That's so obviously ridiculous when taken literally that it must be an idiom.")
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Homosexual Agenda (was: Fundamentalist nightmare)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:20:54 GMT

In article <n0ea1t@ofa123.fidonet.org> David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
>Since we seem to be discussing homosexuality. . . .
> 
>My question: is there ANY evidence that shows that acknowledging
>the current homosexuals in the millitary their right to be there,
>is going to hurt the millitary? Has there been studies?

Well, there used to be this place called Sparta. They were known far
and wide for their military valor. And they didn't exactly *discourage*
homosexual behavior in their armies. In fact, it was more or less
required.......

But then, the social context in which this occurred was so different
that I really don't think it proves much of anything at all about
the current controversy. To the Greeks, homosexuality wasn't an
"alternate lifestyle," it was just something you did when you had the
chance, and felt the urge.



-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
From: kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Von Daniken and Berlitz:  Where are they today?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 17:16:03 -0700
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: anthrax-fddi.solbourne.com


Does anyone know what has happened to:

* Erich Von Daniken, author of _Chariots of the Gods_ and several other
  _* of the Gods_ books

  I remember it was discovered that he paid to have artifacts constructed
  for the _Chariots of the Gods_ movie, and I seem to remember he was tossed
  in jail for a while (anyone know why?  Fraud?).

* Charles Berlitz, author of _The Bermuda Triangle_ and "The Philadelphia
  Experiment_

Just curious if these folks are living on tropical isles living off their
royalties from the '70's or what.

On a related note, does anyone have a canonical list of the Sunn Classic films?
I know of

	* Chariots of the Gods
	* The Bermuda Triangle
	* The various "Wilderness Family" movies

Thanks in advance...
-- 
| William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc.     | Opinions expressed above
| Internet: kucharsk@solbourne.com   Ham: N0OKQ   | are MINE alone, not those
| Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO  80501 | of Solbourne Computer, Inc.
| President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club        | "Dittos from Longmont, CO"
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Biblical Inerrancy?
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:29:47 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.

In article <1992Nov20.190550.9085@csrd.uiuc.edu> g-skinner@uiuc.edu writes:
>>[The Bible] also says that pi=3.
>The Bible does not directly say this.  In 1 Kings 7 we find
>measurements of 10 and 30 cubits for the diameter and circumference
>respectively of a round Sea of cast metal.  From these measurements we
>can determine a value of 3 for Pi.  Note that this is accurate to the
>precision given by the measurements.
>As such this "error" doesn't buy us much.  Had the measurements been
>recorded so that Pi could be computed as 3.1, then we would simply
>note that Pi is not 3.1 either.  Similarly for 3.14, 3.142, 3.1416,
>3.14159, and so on.  It is not possible to write down measurements for
>the diameter and circumference of the Sea, or any circular object for
>that matter, in such a way as to yield the exact value of Pi.

They could have written "it was about 10 cubits across".  That would not have
given pi, but it would not have given an error either.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: gtclark@festival.ed.ac.uk (G T Clark)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Biblical Inerrancy?
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:43:55 GMT


	Pi = 3 is calculated from a passage in Kings (I think) where it
talks about Solomon having a cauldron/pot/vessel of some descript that
is 10 cubits across and 30 around.Personally I would say that it was
sloppiness rather than anything else.
	Also,to answer another point,I don't want to argue with the
moral information in the Bible,or with its beauty as a piece of writing.
Rather,I was taking issue with the point of view that says that if it's
in the Bible that the sun stood still in the sky,then it DID,and you're
an idiot if you don't believe it.(Also,I'm not trying to imply that
anyone was advocating this.)Personally,I'm an atheist,but if you are
religious, then that's fine by me as long as you don't try to stuff it
down my throat.Very few do,but as usual there's a small minority
seemingly intent on getting the rest a bad name...


	G.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.messianic,talk.religion.misc
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: What did Judas betray?
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 01:30:15 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

About 20 people have requested copies of "The Historical Jesus" 
thread, which is good.  For those who have already received this
file from me, I must apologise, as I did a horrible editing job
and there are duplications and omissions that I only noticed a
couple of days ago and have almost finished correcting, including
inserting more of the "Christianity Under the Romans" thread.
You may wish to request the new file, and those who are still 
waiting please be patient for a day or two.  Its about 200K,
so tell me if your mailer has special requirements...

Thanks again for your interest (this is a pretty well-worn topic,
and I will avoid clogging the net with additional postings of my own).

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu