From: gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon)
Subject: recordings (still more)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1992 17:39:16 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University

<MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET> says:

>I never said that Kobold's recordings were perfect, just that they are MUCH
>better than Rock's material.  I agree that there is a noticeable loss of
>fidelity in the 1980 recordings over previous years, but the phase problem
>in field percussion apparent in later years had not yet surfaced.

I didn't notice a phase problem in the percussion.  I'll listen again.
The Atlanta stadium had a severe echo which I assume is not what you're
talking about.

>I also think it a mite bit unfair to blame Kobold for all the balance
>problems on the 1981 championships records.  One must remember that this
>was recorded in Montreal's Olympic Stadium, probably one of the worst
>acoustical venues for drum corps in North America.

I think I said that some of the problems in 1981 weren't Ken's fault.
But the 1982 recordings in the same venue aren't nearly as bad.  (I believe
that's when Larry Rock and Jim Unrath started taking over).  The 82 recordings
aren't great either, but at least the horns are there.
 
>>Agreed.  But I'm not sure the same approach automatically works for
>>drum corps.  It did before the addition of the pit.
> 
>So why would it not now?  Like you said, just move the microphones back a
>little bit.  The advantages gained in phase coherence would far outweight
>any slight overbalance in the pit.  Use of microphones with the right
>pickup pattern could help minimize crowd noise at the same time.

What I am unclear of regarding the 1984 vs 1987 recordings is exactly why
the latter contains so much more crowd noise.  Are there mikes pointing
back to stands (for ambiance I presume) that were just mixed too high in
1987?  Or was there some other reason?
 
>>The 86 BD recording is excellent, especially if played through a good system.
>>The imaging is great, it's like you're there.
> 
>Wrong, wrong, wrong!!  Listen to the FIELD PERCUSSION.  It is total slop on
>the CDs, and 86 was the year of the AWESOMELY tight BD drum line.  The CD
>sounds NOTHING like the BD drum line did in person.

I'll listen again.  It could be that I was so impressed by the improvement
in horn sound that I didn't notice the worsening in the percussion sound.
I'd agree that if the percussion sound needs tightening, it should be
done; but I wouldn't want to go back to the recordings where the horns
sound like they're off in another county.
 
>There is another side effect of the abnormally raised mics....it dramatically
>affects the timbre of all the percussion instruments.  My previous citing
>of the tenor sound in PR's closer in 1991 is a prime example.  For field
>snares, the result is a lot of top-head sound.  Hell, the reason most corps
>use scoops (sound projectors) on their snares is so that we get more snare/
>bottom-head sound!

Yes I've noticed that it adversely effects the percussion sound too.
 
>  1. recorded live in front of a crowd, but in a fixed concert formation.

I've always wished that someone would record the encore concerts.
(and I mean good, digital recordings)

>  2. recorded marching & music performance in an empty stadium.  This could
>      eliminate numerous balance problems in recording by presenting the
>      engineer with opportunities to experiment with optimal mike placement
>      (which I wholeheartedly believe would be in the stands somewhere) as
>      well as ridding him (or her) of the largest source of background noise
>      they currently deal with....the audience.

Interesting, but my opinion is why bother.  If you want the recording as
a memoir, then the recordings during the competition are fine.  You could
argue that part of the stereo effect is to "hear" the movement on the
field... but I'd argue that too much visual is lost just listening to
the corps anyways, so I'd instead opt for just a GREAT recording of the
music.  The best way to achive that is in a studio or other controlled
room where the corps members can stand and play their parts optimally.
During the show, there are so many other things the members have to think
about besides the music.

This was done in 1980 (the "State of the Art" record of BD and SCV) and
the results were fantastic.  I'd like to hear what could be done these
days with digital recording techniques.  There's so much fabulous music
coming out of drum corps that I think it's worthy of preservation.

>  3. recorded in an empty stadium as in 2., but add crowd applause tracks
>      in a mix.

Gag! AACK! blech! argh! yuck!  <---- involuntary response

Do we also add laugh tracks to the VK recordings?

Scott