HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: martel@spider.cs.ucdavis.edu (Chip Martel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Restricting conventions
Date: 13 Oct 92 00:22:59 GMT
Reply-To: martel@spider.cs.ucdavis.edu (Chip Martel)

In article <1992Oct9.234724.28575@ramon.bgu.ac.il>, avir@chen.bgu.ac.il (Avi Roy Shapira) writes:
|> adam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Adam Hamilton) writes:
|> :
|> : 	Starting a change of thread here.
|> :
|> : 	I have never played against a forcing pass system or fert bid system
|> : and would not like to do so without chance to prepare a defence.  Would
|> : some kind soul out there be prepared to post or make available by ftp or
|> : mail some "known" defences against these systems.
|> :
|> : 	I think there will be a LOT of interest in this.
|> :
|> : 		Adam
|> 
|> The forcing pass system is not very popular in Israel. However, several years
|> ago, my partner and I had the occasion to play a 16 board match against a
|> forcing pass pair.
|> 
|> Our defence was simple. After a pass, we used any bid as an overcall, with
|> the same range our usual overcalls at the score, somewhere like 8-16
|> according to vulnerability. We passed with balanced hands to 15 HCP, and
|> all our two level bids were weak two. Including 2C.
 [stuff deleted]
|> 
|> I think that our defence was good against the pass. The defence against the
|> rest of the system depends on the actual structure of the forcing pass
|> system and on the fert suit.
|> 
|> Avi

Typically a forcing pass starts at 13 or 14 (and is sometimes "opened"
with a shapely 12). Thus it is also important to have a way to show your good
hands. I have used a system where a 1C or 1D "overcall" is a hand which
would open the same in a 5 card majors system (thus it is an opening bid
with the bid suit, or a weak notrump with the better minor opened). Bids
of 1H/S show an overcall type hand as Avi describes (8-16) and we used a
1NT response as a cue bid (just as we do after overcalls of a strong club).

A 1NT overcall shows both majors or both minors, and 2C and up are natural
preempts. With a strong balanced hand or a strong major suit hand you
pass on the first round, and then bid on the next. Note that since you
can bid one club or 1 diamond with a good minor suit hand a delayed bid of
a minor shows a good hand with that minor plus the other major (eg
(P)-P-(1C)-P-(1S)-2D: shows a good hand with 5+H, 4+D and 17+ HCP.

I have had a moderate amount of experience with this and it seems to work
well if you remember it. I would also agree with Avi's experience that a
forcing pass works out poorly if the opponents are prepared to give you
a hard time. Basically it is worse than a strong club in competitive
auctions since the initial pass is even less defined than a strong club.

Of course the main gain for these systems is presumably in the 8-12 type
openings or if you are lucky enough to start with a forcing pass and have
the opponents let you relay.

Chip Martel.
From: macon@gallifry.Berkeley.EDU (Glen Macon)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: A Question!
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:30:31 GMT
Reply-To: macon@cbmvax.commodore.com (Glen Macon)
Distribution: world
Organization: COMMODORE West Cester PA


In article <1992Oct13.002558.8968@odin.corp.sgi.com>,
sajid@jam.wpd.sgi.com (Sajid Zia) writes:
|> 
|> So Far I had known that Black Wood Convention means, you have
|> to bid 4NT to ask for aces. But recently I saw in the bridge section
|> of newspaper, bidding 4 Clubs may also means asking for aces. Could
|> somebody clarify when it happens, and what are the other possibilities
|> for asking for aces?
|> 
|> thanks, sajid
|> 
|> P.S. BTW, Why it is classed Black Wood?

BTW... it's called blackwood (one word, after the the guy or gal
who started the convention).

you ask for aces with the 4 clubs call if (and only if) you have
settled on a NT contract.  then when you settle on a slam
(6 or 7 NT) or just to get out at 5 NT where it might sound 
like you're asking for kings...

  example:

open    : 2NT 
partner : 3NT
you     : 4C  < asking for aces
partner : 4H  < 0 aces = 4D, 1 ace = 4H ... (responce = 1 ace)
you     : 5C  < asking for kings
partner : 5S  < 0 kings = 5D, 1 king = 5H ... (responce = 2 king)
you     : 7NT < you feel strong... bid the major slam ... (good luck)
all pass (no doubles?..)



\_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_ 

    \_\_\_      \_      \_                  Glen Macon 
   \_            \_\_  \_\_     any-net: macon@cbmvax.commodore.com
   \_             \_ \_\_ \_            Standard disclaimer...    
    \_   \_\_\_    \_  \_  \_   Commodore doesn't endorse what I say, I do
     \_       \_    \_      \_           Who wants to know...
       \_     \_     \_      \_           Robot roll call...  
	 \_\_\_       \_      \_   Cambot!  Gypsy!  Tom Servo!  Croooooow!
	                                           (__)              
 \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_            (..)
					    /-------\/  moo
   All those moments will be lost in time, / |     ||
   like tears in the rain.		  *  ||----|| 
					     ^^    ^^
From: burt@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Burt Voorhees)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: 6N Play Problem
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:20:26 GMT

ttllarsa@eua.ericsson.se (Lars Andersson) writes:


>An interesting (?) declarer play problem.

>AQT752
>7
>AT
>KJ85

>N


>S

>KJ84
>KQJ3
>Q9
>A62

>As South you are declaring 6N. West (LHO) has doubled a diamond bid. North
>of spades. Actually the bidding was (EW vul) 2S-2N; 3S-4D*-(D); RD-4N; 5S-6N.
>(matchpoints)
>West leads the ten of clubs. Plan the play (with variations).

  First off I cover the club ten with the jack.  If this holds the contract
is made.  If east comes up with the Q then there is still the possibility
of a finesse against the nine of clubs.
  Second, go to the board (either am there with jack of clubs, or lead over
a space) and lead a heart (Who knows, maybe east has the A and will make
a mistake.)  In any case, will knock out heart ace.  Then it's a matter
of who takes the trick, and who leads what back.
  If the heart ace is held up twice then there is a possibility of making 7,
although I don't think it's worth the chance.  (i.e., pitch 10 of
diamonds on second heart, then finesse clubs (assuming queen has already
shown on first trick).
bv
>--lars
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Play 6NT
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:18:34 GMT
Organization: IDA Center for Communications Research, Princeton

Brynjulv Hauksson <Brynjulv.Hauksson@nr.no> writes:
>	J953
>	K64
>	A5
>	K863

>	AK
>	Q72
>	KQ7
>	AQ972

This looks like a delayed-duck squeeze against West, if you can count it
out.  You need West to hold the queen of spades and the ace of hearts.
Cash five clubs discarding a spade from dummy.  West has to keep at
least three spades and at least three hearts, therefore at most two
diamonds.  Now cash three diamonds discarding a heart from dummy.  West
has to keep at least three spades, or you unblock and lead toward the
king of hearts.  So West has at most two hearts, and you lead a heart to
the king and duck a heart.

The same line works against East if East holds queen of spades and
ace-fifth of hearts, if you read the end position.

                                        David desJardins
From: olle@astro.uu.se (Olof Morell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Defense to fert
Date: 8 Oct 1992 10:35:27 GMT
Organization: Uppsala University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: solaris.astro.uu.se

In article <ld67m0INN49l@cypress.cs.utexas.edu>, varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel) writes:
|> Received from Bo-Yin Yang:
|> Please post for me to r.g.b.

Good initiative!

|> SWEDISH Standard Defense (used by the Carotti Team and several other
|> Swedish teams, and in modified form by English and Danish teams):

"Standard" is overdoing it :-), but it's the best available, and it's even got
a name: ANTI-NONSENS !

|> (1D)-
|>         X=      BAL OR DIAMONDS
|>         1M      NAT and limited
|>         1N=     CLUBS
|>         2C=     STRONG with HEARTS
|>         2D=     STRONG with SPADES
[deleted]

This is in fact also applicable to 1H and 1S ferts, defined as such: 

D = the "opening suit" or balanced,
1NT = clubs
2C  = strong with diamonds
2D  = strong with spades (Heart opening) or hearts (spade opening) !

(1NT / 2C / 2D are simply tranfers to the lowest possible suit, granted
that D show the opening suit.)


The major advantage with this system is that you retain constructiveness
as well as maximum possibility to penalize opponents.
Very often people just say, "Ah, we double with a minor opening and
otherwise we play our system."  Bad plan, since the opponents then
have all the advantages of their system, and almost no disadvantages,
since you almost never punish them...  us... :-)


*** Olle ***
----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-mail - Olle.Morell@astro.uu.se

Snail Mail - Astronomical Observatory, Box 515, 751 20 Uppsala, Sweden
From: taylor@foraker.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Eric Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Forcing Pass (was "Bid these hands" and "Competitive Decision")
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:45:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: tivoli.5011

In article <BvqCwG.13s@irvine.com>, adam@irvine.com (Adam Beneschan) writes:
|> In article <4755@tivoli.UUCP> taylor@foraker.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor) writes
|> regarding this hand from the November 1990 ACBL charity game:
|> 
|>         ---, AKJxx, AKQxxx, J

|> >   Please give some auction where it would hurt to open
|> >  this hand 1 diamond.
|> >
|> 
|> I'm not a forcing 1C player, so perhaps I'm not the most qualified person
|> to discuss this problem.  What if the auction goes:
|> 
|>           You       LHO      Partner     RHO
|>           1D        2C         2S        4C
|>           ???


I agree that this is not the auction I would have expected.
A partnership agreement that freak hands should be opened
1 of a suit is probably best as you suggested.

Take away 2 jacks and change your Diamond Queen to a Diamond Jack
leaving :

--- AKxxx AKJxxx x

Since this hand is also possible, I would want to leave 4H as 
natural without promising spade support.
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From:  (martino@courier6.aero.org(Nick Martino))
Subject: Re: Do you go on?
Followup-To: rec.games.bridge
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:45:19 GMT

In article <GRABINER.92Oct9124107@germain.harvard.edu>,
grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) wrote:
> 
> 
> North dealer, N-S vulnerable, matchpoints.  Sitting South, you hold:
> 
> AKxx
> AQTxx
> xxx
> K
> 
> N   E   S   W
> P   1D  1H  1S
> P   2C  P   P
> 2H  P   P   3C
> P   P   ?
> 
> We play sound, unlimited overcalls (Kaplan-style).  Double here would be
> action, not necessarily penalty.
> 
> Do you bid 3H, double, or pass?

Pass.  Doubling is also very reasonable, since you have considerably more
defense than partner has a right to expect.  For example, even holding a
super maximum (considering the opponents bidding) like 

                      xxx xx  Axxx QJxx

partner is unlikely to double 3C, yet it might be set 4 tricks. Obviously,
there are lesser hands partner could have which will be adequate to defeat
3C. Nevertheless, at this vulnerability I think you have more to lose than
to gain. Say, your side can make 2H, then you have to set them two tricks
to protect your plus score.  Down 1, doubled or not, gets you about the
same MPs.  Moreover, if partner does have a hand to pull to 3H, there's too
great a risk of -200.  Bidding 3H is insanity.  Offensively, this hand is
badly flawed.  Besides the stiff Kc, your side Spade suit will not set up,
and the 3 small Diamonds are poison. 


*************************************************************************  
       
                                                                           
                                                                           
                         
    martino@courier6.Aero.org (Nick Martino)                            
   
    The Aerospace Corporation                                            
                                                                        
*************************************************************************

 
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: asupowit@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Aaron Supowit)
Subject: Re: Forcing Pass (was "Bid these hands" and "Competitive Decision")
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:21:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.155743.17706@ramon.bgu.ac.il> avir@chen.bgu.ac.il (Avi Roy Shapira) writes:
>taylor@foraker.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor) writes:
>: In article <1670@idacrd.UUCP>, desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins) writes:
>: |> Eric Taylor <taylor@logan.tivoli.com> writes:
>: |> >>>>>> BTW, if you're in the habit of opening strong two-suiters (hands
>: |> >>>>>> like, say, -,AKJxx,AKQxxxx,J, from the November 1990 ACBL charity
>: |> >>>>>> game) with 2C, you'll find this sort of preemption much harder to
>: |> >>>>>> handle.
>: |>
>:
>: Please give some auction where it would hurt to open
>: this hand 1 diamond.
>
>This is simple.
>
>Give partner QJxxx, Qx, xx, Axxx with the remaining 13HCP equally divided.
>
>1D p  1S p
>2
>What do you bid now, that is unconditionally forcing?
>lets say, you bid 2H. Now you will hear:
>2H p  2N p
>3H p  3N p
>?
>You can never tell that partner has the A of C and Q of hearts. You may get
>to 6D but if you bid wither 5D or 4H you will hear a big pass.
>
>most partners will pass, since you denied 16 HCP, you can have at most
>- AKJxx AKxxxx xx and either 6h or 6D are clearly against the odds.
>
>The point is that if you open this 1D you have to bid the slam all by yourself
>and you cannot get any intelligent cooperation from partner, and you will
>never find that partner has the two missing keycards.
>
>According to Garozzo and Forquet, this hand - AKJxx AKxxxx xx is worth a 1C
>opening, even though their 1C requires 17 HCP, and they have a good method
>of describing this kind of hand.
>
>Avi

I think one important point has been overlooked. This hand can never be described
after opening 1 diamond because precision club methods use 1 diamond for ANY ANY
hand without a 5 card mahjor, a 6 card club suit or 16 HCP. How can you possibly
show your distribution if the 1 diamond bid may be done on a 2 or even a 1 card suit?
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: hamilton@robin.rtp.dg.com (Eric Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Play problem
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 17:46:13 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <79429@apadravya.princeton.edu>, bpwing@phoenix.princeton.edu (Ben Wing) writes:
|> In article <Bvw3t5.I44@irvine.com> adam@irvine.com (Adam Beneschan) writes:
|> |In article <1992Oct9.171619.4636@odin.diku.dk> turin@diku.dk (S|ren Turin) 
|> |writes:
|> |           
|> |>           Axx AQx AKT T9xx
|> |>
|> |>           JT KJTxxx Jxx AK
|> |>
|> |>   How do you play [6H] after the lead of 2 of spades (4th highest). 
|> |
|> You would have a nice club-diamond squeeze against either opponent but your
|> entries are screwed up.  Unfortunately, all you got here (unless I'm missing
|> something) is a squeeze against West, and in that case you're better off
|> taking the finesse.
|> 
There is a criss-cross squeeze in clubs and diamonds.  Lose a spade early and
come down to an end position like:

        -
        -
        K
        T9

	-
	-
	Jx
	K

planning to make the last three tricks diamond-club-diamond or club-diamond-club
according to your reading of the position.  As to whether this is a good line,
well, that's a different matter.  The point I'm making here is that despite the
bollixed entries, there is a squeeze position.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Hamilton				+1 919 248 6172
Data General Corporation		hamilton@dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com
62 Alexander Drive			...!mcnc!rti!xyzzy!hamilton
Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken)
Subject: psych
Summary: A spectacular penalty!
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:08:30 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

If you are the sort of person who believes that all psychs are monstrous,
please do not read beyond this point.

Recently, at imps, not vulnerable against vulnerable, competant opponents:

I held        xxxx
              xxxx   (Please pardon all the x's.  My eyes tend to glaze over
              xxx     when I pick up a Yarborough.)
              xx

A miracle occurs.  Two passes to me!  I opened 1NT, ended up in 3NTx, and made
only my partner's two aces, shrinking in my seat card by card.

Partner took it rather well, I thought, and we soon made up most of what I'd
lost us.  But since then I've decided he was much too kind.  What do you think?
Doesn't my 44 holding in the major suits (and the surprize value of the fact
that I have no honors whatsoever) make it less likely that the opponents have
an easy game?  Wouldn't this be a better psych if I held the 2344 distribution?
Of course, I might have been tricking the opponents out of a slam, as opposed
to a game.  But in order to take the extraordinary risk that such a psych
entails, I'd like to have as much as possible on my side.

Please flame on, but only if you obeyed the first sentence of this post.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Taddiken, University of Kentucky
From: turin@diku.dk (S|ren Turin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Cole
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:03:20 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen


Hi netters. 
In the world championship book from Yokohama 1991 a convention called
Cole is mentioned. Does any of you know of this creature? I can't find
it right now, but i think the bidding went 1C-1S-2C.


Regards Soren 

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
turin@freja.diku.dk aka Soren Turin 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: k36793l@saha.hut.fi (Pekka Viitasalo)
Subject: Re: Choosing the right asking bid in Precision
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 11:03:35 GMT


> Hi, Precionists and others using Italian style and related asking bids.
> 
> This hand came up the other day when I was playing with my new partner:
> 
  West    East
> AQJx    x
> Kx      AQxxx
> QT      Kx
> Axxxx   Kxxxx

  W       E
  1C      1H = 9+ hcp, 5+ cards
  1NT(1)  2H = 4 controls
  2NT(2)  3C = 4+ cards
  3S(3)   4C(4)
  4S(5)   4NT(6)
  6C(7)

(1) With a balanced or semibalanced hand the control ask is usually
the best way to begin with as the auction can be switched to natural mode
after the ask.  This hand has four possible strains to consider so
any binding call is out.

(2) Switching to natural bidding as both the strain and the level are
still unclear.

(3) Natural, 4 cards.  The auction has basically reached the position
of 1NT-2D-2H-3C(GF) except that East's controls are known and West is still
unlimited.  After the transfer sequence 3S looks fairly automatic and
there is no reason why it should not be bid here.  (East may hold 
x JT9xx AKx Kxxx where 3NT rolls easily home but 5C requires either
club break or luck in hearts.)

(4) Natural, 5 cards.  West has shown doubt about strain so East should
continue his description.  West is known to have 4 spades, 1-2 hearts
and some diamond worries so some kind of club fit should exist.

(5) Cue agreeing clubs and denying diamond control. (4H would have
been natural with doubleton support (Hx most likely))  Also tells
that West is unsure about the control location (= 3 controls are missing).

(6) DI, shows diamond control and goodish hand.

(7) Conclusion.  East might hold x A?xxx Ax ?xxxx but hardly K A?xxx Kx 
?xxxx as bad clubs with bad controls do not warrant 4NT in the light of the
4S call.  East cannot have Kxx A?xxx void K?xxx as that would have been
enough for 5D over 4S.

Pekka Viitasalo
piv@cctap.carel.fi
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: ttllarsa@eua.ericsson.se (Lars Andersson)
Subject: Re: 6N Play Problem
Reply-To: ttllarsa@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 13:12:29 GMT

In article 719050863@vipunen.hut.fi, lsimonse@vipunen.hut.fi (Leif Simonsen) writes:
>In <1992Oct12.114931.11821@eua.ericsson.se> ttllarsa@eua.ericsson.se (Lars Andersson) writes:
>
>
>>An interesting (?) declarer play problem.
>
>>AQT752
>>7
>>AT
>>KJ85
>
>>N
>
>
>>S
>
>>KJ84
>>KQJ3
>>Q9
>>A62
>
>>West leads the ten of clubs. Plan the play (with variations).

>Note that the game never is home if east holds Q9x. There will be no finesse
>and no squeeze. If the opponents don't take their ace of hearts until the
>third round there will never be the right tempo. (because declearer of

Not true, see below.

>course not can play hearts himself the fourth time)
>
>The only right solution is to play the jack of clubs in the first trick and

The only right solution must be what was correct at the table ;-)

>than if it does not go finesse again with the 8c. (Much more probable than
>a chinese finesse in diamond.)

Now he is beginning to see the light...

>
>
>Kenneth Simonsen
>lsimonse@vipunen.hut.fi
>
----SOLUTION FOLLOWS








At the table East held xx/A9xx/Jxx/Q9xx
If you win the lead with the king, force out the the ace of hearts (in one 
or two rounds), play the queen of diamonds (covered by
LHO:s king), play a spade to hand, cash a heart (discarding a diamond)
and cash all but two spades. 
This is what you come down to:

xx
-
-
Jx
       -
       ?
       ?
       Q9
-
4
9
Ax

When playing the next to last spade and East discards a heart you have
to guess what squeeze to play for...
When you cash the last spade East is squeezed if (s)he holds five hearts or
the jack of diamonds.
This assumes that East holds the Queen of clubs. 
If East does not hold the jack of diamonds and ducks two hearts you go down
(I think).

On the hearts you can also keep the diamond ten in dummy (discarding two clubs) 
and play for East to hold four clubs (plausible since if West holds more
than two clubs he would not have lead the ten; unless he holds the nine; in 
which case you can cover the first club with the jack and later finesse ......).

x
-
T
J
       -
       ?
       ?
       Q9
-
4
-
Ax

In this case you don't have to guess the ending. If the ten of diamonds or four
of hearts are not high you get two club tricks in the end..
This play is also best if East holds five hearts (and does not duck two hearts)
and West KJ in diamonds.

If East ducks two hearts (and holds the diamond jack) he is subject to a three-suit squeeze...

My partner butchered this easy hand at the table ;-)

--lars




Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: isc30194@nusunix1.nus.sg (LEE CHEW HUNG)
Subject: GrandSlam Bridge II - ECA
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 03:46:17 GMT

   I just saw this game in the shops.  Can anyone give a commentary on
it ?  How good is this game ?

Lee Chew Hung
isc30194@nusunix3.nus.sg