HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Pakkoruotsi Suomen kouluissa (Tv}ngsvenska in Finnish schools)
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:03:39 GMT
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology

In article <1992Nov12.092425.15908@cs.hut.fi>, f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{) writes:
|> 
|> Swedish was made obligatory in Finnish schools as late as in 1964.
|> I don't really know what was the reasoning behind this decision,
|> probably some political scam between Rural league (that later
|> became Center Party) and Swedish Party. 
|> 
|> Obligatory Swedish has, IMHO, no effect on treatment of
|> Swedish-speaking minority. It only reduces the number of choices
|> schoolchildren have. It's very narrow-minded thinking to state that
|> removing obligatory Swedish would mean killing the teaching of
|> Swedish altogether.
|> 
|> Janne Kivela"
|> 
|>       "N{m{kin pusakat vain viisysiysi. Ja kaikista valtakunnan..."
|>                      ----- Simo vaatehuoneelta
|> 
--


When I went to school back in the sixties (in Norway), I had to learn
some islandic ! Or actually, I had to chose between islandic and old
norwegian (the wikings' language).

This shows clearly that the authorities of Island is just as bad as the
swedes (not the turnip ;-).


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: bjorn@hactar.ludd.luth.se (Bjorn Fahller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Assimilationspolitik av finnar i Sverige
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:25:53 GMT
Organization: Organized? Moi? Hehe...


In article <1992Nov6.091043.18678@nntp.hut.fi>, jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:
> In article <1992Nov5.200441.4605@kth.se>, d89-jsp@nada (Jan Sparrendahl) writes:
> >	* 	THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST SPEAKING FINNISH IN SWEDEN	*
> 
> There were some newspaper reports some years ago about kids being
> forbidden to speak me{n kieli in Tornedahlen i daghemmet.  I have no
> detailed info and it might've been false reporting.

Unless this was A LOT of years ago, it's most probably false. I'm convinced
that would've started some storm here. For those who do not know, Lulea is
close enough to Tornedalen, to have, for example, lots of students from
Tornedalen (I knew some a few years ago, I have no idea where they are now,
but I know many of them prefered to speak Finnish to each other, although
their Swedish was excellent when talking to Swedes). I'm absolutely certain
that kids being forbidden to speak finnish in Tornedalen, would've been 1st
page stuff on the local newspapers. I have no memories of anything such.

   _
/Bjorn.
-- 
Bjorn Fahller     Phone:              |The opinions above are not necessarily
Trollnasvagen 3A  Intl:+46 920 226870 |those of... Hey! Wait a minute. Do you
S-951 61 Lulea    Natl:0920-22 68 70  |seriously expect Me, a student, to carry
Sweden            << space for rent >>|the official voice of the University?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: etxmow@garboc34.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg)
Subject: Re: The Finns, an opressed minority in Sweden
Organization: Ericsson
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:22:06 GMT

ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>: Why after all the Finns are better survived on the area compared with
>: the Forest-Finns of Warmland whose genocide was complited 1960's
>: by the Swedish administration.
>: 

      Genocide is a strong word. Do all Finnish people compare the
      Finnish situation in Sweden with that of the Jews in the Third
      Reich or that of the Cambodians under Khmer Rouge? Or is it just
      Jarmo Ryyti?


      Mats Winberg
      etxmow@tore.ericsson.se
From: crusader@lut.fi (Crusader ,the Holy Soldier of Metal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Alcoholism in Scandinavia.....
Date: 13 Nov 92 06:11:33 GMT
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland
Disclaimer: You can't bring me down

> In article <nkjrm.24@taxus.uib.no>, nkjrm@taxus.uib.no (Rolf Manne) writes:

> In article <1992Nov11.204321.20048@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> satya@pasture.ecn.purdue.edu (Satya Bhamidipati) writes:

>>    This might be on oft repeated topic. Please excuse
>>    me if so...

>>       I have a finnish friend (from Helsinki) who says that
>>    alcoholism is rampant among men of Finland (Scandinavia in
>>    general). Is this true ? Are there any statistics to show
>>    that alcoholism is more/same/less than in other countries.
>>    From the picture my friend painted, it appears that a lot
>>    (no numbers) of MEN are alcoholics. 

>>       If this is true, could someone explain why this is so ?
>>    If this can be blamed on the conditions of weather etc., I
>>    would expect that women too would be alcoholics (in the same
>>    numbers as men) . Could someone clarify these thoughts (or 
>>    misconceptions) ?



>>    Satya (satya@pasture.ecn.purdue.edu)

> The alcohol habits definitely differ between different countries and
> between different groups of people. I have seen somewhere that the per
> capita consumption is lowest in Finland, then follow Norway, Sweden and

And the aim in drinking alcohol is not only to have fun, but ( ultimately )
to get stone cold drunk.

--
I crusader@kannel.lut.fi I    /              I How can you call me evil ?
I Mikko Hy|kki           I (==I-Crusader---> I Have you spoken to God today..
I Laserkatu 3 AB 222     I    \              I       ...And what did he say ?
I 53850 LAPPEENRANTA     I                   I          - Suicidal Tendencies
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: mortenny@idt.unit.no (Morten Andersen Nyg}rd)
Subject: Re: ...US Geography...
Reply-To: mortenny@idt.unit.no (Morten Andersen Nyg}rd)
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 15:27:57 GMT

In article <Nov08.222630.79812@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, sastoen@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Susan Stoen) writes:
|> Hei.  Back to the geography thingie....
|> 
|> I grew up in a town in Wisconsin called Holmen.  It was
|> settled by several Norwegians in the mid-1800's.  Near
|> my home town is another town called Westby.  In this
|> area is a museum called Norskedalen which is dedicated
|> tp the Nordic settlers.
|> 
|> Ha det bra!
|> 
|> --Sue Stoen
|> 
|> email: sastoen@lamar.colostate.edu
|> 
|> 

Yes, I've visited Norskedalen and Westby, and they really know how to
take care of their Norwegian heritage. Westby, for example, has an annual
Syttende Mai festival, and the celebration usually lasts three days.
And Westby's Information centre is a Norwegian Stabbur...
So, if you want to visit the "Norwegian" part of the US, I'd recommend Westby,
Norskedalen and Mt. Horeb, Wisconsin.

Morten.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Subject: Re: Pakkoruotsi Suomen kouluissa
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 22:05:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.061941.7946@jyu.fi>, ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
|> 
|> Olen l{hd|ss{ 11.11.92 ty|matkalle Ven{j{lle, Karjalan tasavaltaan
|> Petroskoihin.
|> 
|> [.....]
|>
|> Terveisin,
|> Jarmo Ryyti
|> 
--


I risk being a racist - but I couldn't resist  (-:

It sure is practical to post in a language that only a minority in
Norden understands... :-)


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,alt.sources.wanted,alt.swedish.chef.bork.bork.bork
From: ruck@zeta.ee.ufl.edu (John R Ruckstuhl Jr)
Subject: English text to Swedish accented English text program wanted
Organization: EE Dept at UF
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 16:15:53 GMT

I've got an immediate need for a program which I believe I've seen 
posted to Usenet:
It takes English text and transforms it to a English text with a Swedish
accent.
It's funny to some of us.

If you have it, and it's small, would you please email it to me --
if it's large, please tell me where I can find it.

Thank you for your help.

Best regards,
ruck
-- 
John R. Ruckstuhl, Jr.                  ruck@alpha.ee.ufl.edu
Dept of Electrical Engineering          ruck@cis.ufl.edu, uflorida!ruck
University of Florida                   ruck%sphere@cis.ufl.edu, sphere!ruck
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik stman)
Subject: The kings residence (Was: Gothenburg...)
Reply-To: euafri@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:07:20 GMT

Bertil Jonell writes:
>Kjell Siimon writes:

>>One last thing: His Majesty don't live IN Stockholm.

>  Of course not, he's too smart to do that.

Not many people accuse the king (-8E of being smart. However, it is a good
thing to live in Eker. And it really pissed the Stockholm Pamps (TM) off when
it was clear that they had lost the king's municipal or whatever taxes.

---
         ______                     _~
        (_/_ _  _  _/) _  . /)     / ) , _/)     _
       __/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_    (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kurt@dna.lth.se (Kurt Swanson)
Subject: Re: President Clinton!
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 12:28:58 GMT

ct@dde.dk (Claus Tondering) writes:
>andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson) writes:
>>Well, since neither Sweden nor any other European country participated
>>in the US presidential election, ....
>Well, we should, shouldn't we? After all, the outcome of a presidential
>election in the USA has some influence on us in Europe. Wouldn't it be
>fair if we were all given, for example, one tenth of a vote? :-)

Sure!  Danes get 1/10 of a vote in the US, or 450.000 votes.  That
wouldn't change much....  But in the same manner, Americans get 1/10
of a vote in Denmark - 26.000.000 votes!
-- 
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Computer Science,
Lunds universitet.  Kurt.Swanson@dna.lth.se
From: leisti@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Teemu Leisti)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: The Finns, an opressed minority in Sweden
Date: 10 Nov 92 11:12:28 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

etxmow@garboc34.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg) writes:

>ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

>> Why after all the Finns are better survived on the area compared with
>> the Forest-Finns of Warmland whose genocide was complited 1960's
>> by the Swedish administration.

>      Genocide is a strong word. Do all Finnish people compare the
>      Finnish situation in Sweden with that of the Jews in the Third
>      Reich or that of the Cambodians under Khmer Rouge?

No.

>      Or is it just Jarmo Ryyti?

Apparently, yes.


--  Teemu Leisti  /  U. of Helsinki, Finland  /  leisti@cc.helsinki.fi

"I was shot down, and I was floating around in a little yellow raft,
 setting a record for paddling.  I thought of my family, my mom and dad,
 and the strength I got from them.  I thought of my faith, the separation
 of church and state."

   -- George Bush, in a speech relating his experiences as a World War II
      fighter pilot, 5 December 1987.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kkr42091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (QUEEN ZENOBIA!)
Subject: Re: Learning (some) Finnish
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:36:50 GMT
Keywords: Finland

jtbell@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jon Bell) writes:

>In article <1d9rgoINNlfu@morrow.stanford.edu> mahtani@camis.Stanford.EDU (Melanie Mahtani) writes:
>>
>>Any suggestions on how best (easiest) to pick up some 
>>useful terms and a bit of the [Finnish] language?  (Books, etc.?)

>You might want to check out "Finnish for Foreigners" by Maija-Hellikki
>Aaltio.  It's a three-volume paperback series, but the first volume is
>probably all you'll want unless you _really_ get hooked on studying
>Finnish.  There are tapes that go with it, too.  I don't have it handy
>so I can't tell you the publisher or the price, but it ought to be listed
>in "Books in Print."  It's actually published in Finland, but is (or has
>been) distributed in the U.S.

>Jon Bell / Physics & Comp. Sci. / Presbyterian College / Clinton SC USA


Get Suomea Suomeksi. I do not know where you can get it in the States but you
might try Glada Grisen in i think Glenview, IL... I believe the owner , Ulla 
said shewould be getting those in soon. They are really much better and much easier 
to understand IMHO than Finnish for Foreigners. 
And if you wanted to you could always ask the people you work with too to help you read them.

-kimberli roan-m[k[r[inen

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ksavolai@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: Re: Soon it's Christmas (Was: Finns and Swedes......)
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 10:21:25 GMT

Kjell the Brave writes:

> In a couple of weeks there will bi Christmas. Wouldnt it be nice, just for
> a while at least, to share Christmas traditions with eachother instead of
> fighting.
> Let me try with this one:
> 
> In Sweden we all drink something called GLUGG. It's very sweet wine, remade
> from old wine that SYSTEMBOLAGET don't find any use for and can't get ridd
> of in any other way. We drink it hot with raisins and shopped nuts. After a
> couple of glases your stomage feels very turbulent and you have to spend
> some hours on the lavatory.
> 
> Do you have any similar experiences in Finland?

        Yes we have same drink in Finland. Here it's called gl|gi.

...........................................................................
: Kai Savolainen           :    e-mail: ksavolai@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi      :
: Nokia Telecommunications : "It's 100 miles to Chicago, we've got a full  :
: Helsinki                 :  tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's :
: Finland                  :  dark, and we're wearing sunglasses."         :
:                          :        --Elwood Blues                         :
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: achristo@pons.uio.no (Alf Christophersen)
Subject: Re: Pakkoruotsi Suomen kouluissa
Organization: University of Oslo
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:01:16 GMT


>> It sure is practical to post in a language that only a minority in
>> Norden understands... :-)
>
>Not only that, it's the best idea Jarmo has had for a long time
>(ever?). This way, our international readers aren't bothered by his
>raving, and we avoid flamewars that don't do any good for the
>reputation of Finns on the net. I hope he keeps writing in Finnish; he
>makes less mistakes in it, too.  :-)
>
>Mauri
>mjh@stekt.oulu.fi
>
But then it would be an even better idea to learn Jarmo how to
set the distribution to fi. only :-) Then all other of us will
benefit to never see Jarmo's writings at all:-) Could maybe
someone set an autodistribution for Jarmo to fi. for all his
ramblings for ever? So he never will be seen outside Finland
anymore. That would be the best thing that has happened to the
whole world up until now!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Subject: Re: Assimilationspolitik av finnar i Sverige
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 09:47:20 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.150521.22266@kth.se>, tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson) writes:
|> 
|> [....]
|> 
|> Well, our cover has been exposed by Jarmo, but we will continue to bring 
|> evil to the world as long as we can.
|> 
|> Tomas
--


Thank's to Jarmo. Let's all help him revealing the bad swedes' plans.

I can add that Sweden has occupied Jamtland and Harjedalen, they've
always done their best to destroy other countries by for instance
playing ice-hockey, football and handball too well (the swedish men, of
course, but I am sure the women will, too).

And just look at the title : Hitler's "Mein Kampf" is achieved by
simply adding an "e" and an "f" in the original title "Min Kamp" !


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: The kings residence (Was: Gothenburg...)
Date: 11 Nov 92 09:38:02 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Lekskola, G|teborg, G|taland

In article <1992Nov9.090720.10754@eua.ericsson.se> euafri@eua.ericsson.se writes:
>Bertil Jonell writes:
>>Kjell Siimon writes:
>
>> >One last thing: His Majesty don't live IN Stockholm.
>>   Of course not, he's too smart to do that.
>
>Not many people accuse the king (-8E of being smart.
				 ^^^^
  Since he hasn't had a coronation, that is an erroneous smiley.
 
"Det {r inte kronan som sitter p} kungen, det {r kungen som sitter p} kronan!"

-bertil-
--
"Ack! Phht!" - Bill the Prez
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: sakkinen@jyu.fi (Markku Sakkinen)
Subject: Re: The Finns, an opressed minority in Sweden
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 10:28:02 GMT

In article <FISCHER.92Nov12022817@steinhaus.iesd.auc.dk> fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer) writes:
>
>>>>>> "Jarmo" == Jarmo Ryyti (ryyti@jyu.fi)
> ...
>Soc.culture.nordic is getting to be a real, grown-up newsgroup, isn't
>it. We even get to have our own Mutlu these days.
>
>Sigh.

Quite a bad comparison.  Haven't you noted that Jarmo mostly gives
factual arguments for his opinions, while 90% of his Swedish opponents
retort with primitive insults, which show that they usually haven't
even really read the postings to which they so angrily reply, and which
contain no contribution whatsoever?

It is also these Swedes who show very Mutlu-like attitudes:
- There is not really any ethnic Finnish minority in Sweden.
- Of course, nobody who is a Swedish citizen would admit to belong
  to such an inferior minority (except perhaps a first-generation
  immigrant).
- There exists no discrimination or oppression against Finnish-speaking
  people in Sweden;  all news in the Swedish press alleging such things
  are false or misinterpreted.
- The situations of the Swedish-speaking minority in Finland and the
  Finnish-speaking minority in Sweden are so fundamentally different
  than nobody has the right to compare them.
- The people of ]land may harass speakers of Finnish in any way,
  since they are themselves an endagered minority;  international
  conventions on human rights don't appply.

(No, I don't know Jarmo personally, although he is from the same
university.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Markku Sakkinen (sakkinen@jytko.jyu.fi)
       SAKKINEN@FINJYU.bitnet (alternative network address)
Department of Computer Science and Information Systems
University of Jyvaskyla (a's with umlauts)
PL 35
SF-40351 Jyvaskyla (umlauts again)
Finland
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Are you incapable ... (provocative)
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<1992Nov13.084054.9685@sai.vtt.fi>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:29:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.084054.9685@sai.vtt.fi> kissa@cortex.sai.vtt.fi
  (Kimmo Saarinen) writes:

   >But before I go on (and before I forget) I raise the question :
   >how many of e.g. swedes (swedish as mother language) studies
   >finnish, and if very small number, why so few?

  As for how many, "a very small number" is no doubt right. As for the
reason for this, there simply isn't sufficient motivation for people
to study Finnish. As you yourself point out, studying a (completely)
foreign language is hard work.

   >but from courtesy reasons one could expect that close contacts in 
   >Finland having persons would study finnish.

  It's simply a fact of life that courtesy reasons do not afford
sufficient motivation. If Sweden very extremely dependent on trade
with Finland, while Finland could pick and choose which countries
to trade with, matters would change quickly enough.

   >To be explicit : from this point of view I don't feel _equality_
   >with the citizens of other Nordic countries.

  This is a natural consequence of Finnish being so different from
the closely related languages of Sweden, Norway, and Denmark. The basic
fact here seems to be your resentment at being forced to learn
Swedish in school, which is very understandable. But I don't see that
this is something that people in Sweden have any reason to hold an opinion on.
From: IO20823@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (T. Peter Leone)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Finnish Press on President Elect Clinton?
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:29:13 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

I was just wondering what the Finnish press had to say about the United States
new president? Also what has been the reaction form the goverment? Thanks for
the info!What has been the "typical" finnish person'srepsonse to the change
to President Clinton?




+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
:IO20823@MAINE.MAINE.EDU                      TRUCKIN' UP TO BUFFALO..... :
:T. PETER LEONE                                GO SABRES!!                :
:NO GD NEW YEARS SHOWS :( :( :(                GO BANDITS 1992 MILL CHAMPS:
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Assimilationspolitik av finnar i Sverige
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<TORKEL.92Nov4182320@lludd.sics.se>
	<1992Nov6.130643.1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:07:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.130643.1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi> nindola@tnclus.tele.nokia.
fi writes:

   >Who cares if they are "Finns" or not?

  They do. Your question is more than a little odd, since you go on to say
that "If you ask me if I'm a Swede I'd certainly answer no because Swede for
me has something to do with Sweden as a country." Why do you imagine that
the people in Tornedalen don't care if people think they are not Swedes
but Finns?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic