From: janicki@gblaut.enet.dec.com (Victoria Janicki)
Subject: Re: non-competitive shows (was Re: Show points and the )
Reply-To: janicki@gblaut.enet.dec.com (Victoria Janicki)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Littleton,MA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:22:28 GMT



|>
|>>CB>See?  This is what I was talking about when I suggested a non-
|>>CB>competitive conformation ring.  It just wouldn't happen.
|>
|>>What would be the point? Why would we even bother to show our dogs, if
|>>there was no chance of winning? If we just want to show people our dog,
|>>we could go to the park.
|>>As I have said before there is good and bad in anything you do,
|>>including dog shows. Fortunatly, there are more good people showing dogs
|>>than there are bad!
|>
|>No, actually, I see Chris' point.  Picture obedience trials...say you
|>set up something similar where each dog scores a certain number of
|>points.  You might say that it can qualify for 1 point to its title if
|>it got greater than X points in the show (take the standard, cut it
|>up, assign points to each part, and stipulate that the dog must get at
|>least half the points on each part and at least 75% of the total
|>points).  If it got among the top three scores, it's point could go to
|>two points.  That kind of thing.  And you might have something like:
|>10pts, standard dog, 20 points, standard dog excellent, and 30+ points
|>standard champion.  But any dog that has at least 10pts meets the
|>conformation standard.  (Or play with the numbers to suit yourself.)
|>The point is the dogs would compete against the standard rather than
|>other dogs so much.  I don't advocate (and I don't believe Chris does
|>either) doing away with the current show set up.  But I think it would
|>be nice to set up a "standards" trial.  So you'd have obedience, show,
|>field, and standards trials.  BTW, something like this could provide
|>invaluable feedback to owners on the strengths and weaknesses of their
|>dogs.

There are breed shows (breed specific) around that basically accomplish
this. Under German (SV) rules, the breed show classes are run as follows.
The classes are broken down into age groups and by sex. The judge then
runs through the classes and makes placements. Very much like AKC classes.
But there are significant differences. There are no points to be won and
no intersex competition. 

All puppies under one year of age are given ratings of Very Promising,
Promising, Not Promising. The premise is that they are only puppies which
may or may not mature into their promise.

All dogs without working titles and hip certification are rated from
Very Good to Unsatisfactory.

Dogs with working titles and hip certifications are rated from Excellent to
Unsatisfactory.

These ratings are recorded. As the judge announces the placement he/she also
gives a critique of the dogs positive/negative qualities and why the dog 
was given that placement. Many times a poor/inappropriate temperament will move
a dog down a place or two. So even if your dog did not win the class, you
have a good idea of how the dog fares against the standard and the dogs
in its class. Handling is also more relaxed. Poor handling may move your
dog from a Excellent to a Very Good but the judge will let you know that in
the critique. 

Personally I enjoy these types of shows because I learn alot at each one.
Winning is fun but not the total focus of these shows.

With the Breed Survey and Koerung method, you have a system of evaluating
the working and conformation abilities of an individual dog as far as a 
breeding prospects. It isn't a perfect system - it has its political aspects
as well as the show vs. working issue but it basically works.

The breeds that I know of in the US that hold these type of shows are
German Shepherds, Rotties, and Dobies. Briards have had a similar type show
at their National Specialty. I suspec the Lab "Field Trial"  Class
is along these lines too.

If the only point to AKC shows is to win, then no on would want to
enter these shows. If the point is to evaluate breeding stock, then
breeders should welcome these shows. In Germany, the Sieger Show (German
GSD National Specialty) attracts thousands of dogs and thousands of spectators
from all over the world. People proudly advertise their dogs as being
V-20 in the Sieger Show (which is probably about 25-30th place).

--
Victoria Janicki
Digital Equipment Corporation
Littleton,MA

SG Bonnie v. Fuerstenberg II, AD TT 
G Bronte v. Mack-Zwinger CD, B, TT, AD, HIC
(Unrated) Dokken v. Mack-Zwinger B,TT,AD,HIC

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