From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Subject: Re: Civilization bandwagon
Organization: ECE - Concordia University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:14:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.220351.7814@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au  writes:
>In article <Byspxn.H3z@newsflash.concordia.ca>, ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
>|> 
>|> The fact that I disagree with Tamer in some issues does not mean that
>|> he agrees with you on all issues! and who are "We" It seems that you did not
>|> realize that even among Islamists there is room for disagreement. SO don't
>|> assume that all Islamists adopt the same views.
>
>I did not say that he agrees with me on all issues, infact, he dis-agreed on
>some. However, he strongly dis-agrees with you on most issues as many Muslims
>who are not outspoken.

How many issues did we discuss? I can think of at most three issues that
we discussed and disagreed upon:
1)The Egyptian government
2)Interest and Economics
3)Ancient Egypt.

>|> Islamic History contains a lot of contradictions, if you choose some events
>|> you like and generalize about Islam, then it is like somebody who chooses
>|> Germany in WWII to show that democracy does not work.
>
>The fact of the matter is that all religious histories have contradictions
>and Islam is not alone. However, you Islamists in every instance are tarnishing

Are you really sincere? why do you still insist on using "you Islamists" while
it is claer that Islamists disagree on many issues including the statement
below which I personally never said.

>the image of Islam which is a fundamentally good teaching. Islam and all other
>religions are not timeless and are incapable of solving all problems. In
>your attempts to claim that the Arabic world problmes are there because Islam
>is not being followed, Islam is being ridiculed.
>
>|> 
>|> 
>|> You and your friendly dictators are surely making sure that we will never
>|> find out, even if it takes the lives of all Islamists..
>
>My friendly dictators will not let you?. You are hiding the fact that past
>political systems were no better. However, can you as a genuin Muslim claim
>that those governments are worse or better than all other givernments in the
>world?.
>
All third world countries especially Arab and African countries are worse
than most other governments. I can say that with certainty.

>|> 
>Islamic government by definition means electing a Calilfeh for life, it is
>not too different from a dictatorship.
Now  that is a new definition of an Islamic government coming from a christian.
Sorry, my view of an Islamic government is a democratic government with an
Islamic constitution. The parlementary system in my opinion is the closest
one to the Islamic system.
>
>
>Conservative attitudes are sourced by conservative religion and ideals. That
>is exactly what you Islamists desire.
I do not know why you keep telling me what I desire.
Islam's first declaration of faith is a fight against conservative attitudes.
It is against following ancestors, it is for renewal. If it was conservative
The prophet (p.b.u.h) would not have predicted that there will be every
century someone who will RENEW the religion for Muslims.

Do you notice that I prefer living in Canada to living in Saudi Arabia?
>
>|> 
>|> 
>|> In Islam (at least Sunni Islam) there is no such a thing as absolute authority
>|> it only was allowed with prophets. Usual human beings should not be given
>|> an absolute authority.
>
>So all the Califs did not have absolute authority?.
I only recognize the first four as Califs.
They had more power than I think they should have had, but they had no
power on the Judicial system. Many of them lost cases even to JEWS. Can you
deny that? maybe you did not know.
A modern Khilafah should not give authority to any one individual (IMHO).
We can't trust anybody these days.

>
>I doubt that these people are Islamists like you. Anyway give me names. There
>is nothing wrong with my glasses, I think you need a brain fluid change.

Do you know me? I doubt it.

>
>A.Faris


=============================================================
Modified Murphy's first law of realistic probability:
If it can happen, it will happen...
Unless of course "it" is a good thing.
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Ilyess Ben Ali Bdira    Montreal Quebec  Canada
E-mail ilyess@ECE.concordia.CA, benali@alcor.concordia.CA
Phone Number and Address variable...
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic