From: shari@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Wild and Crazy Kind of Girl)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Proofs of the Bible (Long, but filled with information)
Date: 18 Nov 92 01:32:02 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

I just have to disagree with some of these claims.

In article <1992Nov11.131233.3887@wkuvx1.bitnet> barnejd@wkuvx1.bitnet wrtes:
(much stuff deleted)

>  You said (in not quite so many words) that I can't use the Bible to prove
>the Bible.  I could use that same reasoning to say don't use science to
>prove science...
 
We don't use science to prove science.  We use an experimental method to 
prove scientific theories.  And at least, science admits fallibility.



>  Proof for the Bible being the Word of God:
>1) It claims to be - 

WOW! So do the Qu'oran, the Rg Vedas, etc, etc.  Big deal.

>2) The unity of the Bible - 

I guess you haven't read many other religious texts.  They are equally as
unified.  Even Greek mythology has a similar unity.

>3) The great moral teachings of the Bible -

Once again, you cannot have read any other religious texts if you insist
on claiming the Bible is unique among religious texts in teaching morality.
And being strict, how does that make it good.  It seems to me that this
would make it predjudice and vindictive.

>4) Its Unparallelled Impartiality - 

Just because it gives the good and bad sides of people, doesn't mean it
has any truth value whatsoever.  I know many fiction writers who present
the flaws and good attributes of their characters.

>5) The Brevity

Again, this does not make it true.  Perhaps it is brief because of a lack
of correct information to put into it.

>6) The Life of Jesus - That Jesus existed is virtually indisputable.  

Really? We have only the Bible to say he did, and many other religious 
documents to say that even if he did, he was merely a prophet.

>7) The Fulfillment of Prophecy - Modern self-proclaimed "prophets" usually
>    get about 10-20% right; the Bible's all come true in exactly the way
>    predicted.  

Well.. then how come Christians are often predicting a certain doomsday which
never happens.  The fact is that predictions that "come true" are often vague
and subject to interpretation.


>8) The Bible's Scientific Foreknowledge - One of the areas I personally
>    find fascinating.  Being pre-scientific, it should attribute the
>    workings of nature to colorful myths and be woefully inaccurate - if it
>    was written by man. In the 19th century, Herbert Spencer first
>    announced the 5 fundamental facts of science; yet the Bible covered all
>    5 in the first 2 verses: "In the beginning [time - jdb] God created the
>    heavens [space] and the earth [matter].  And the spirit of God moved 
>    [force] upon the face of the waters [motion]."
>      The Bible said the earth was round (Is 40:22, Prov 8:27, Lk
>    17:34-36).  Not too long ago, great minds were convinced the earth was
>    held up by Atlas or something like him; read Job 26:7 to hear what the
>    Bible claimed.  Moses knew about a plurality of seas, all with one 
>    common bed (Gen 1:9-10).  Solomon knew about the rain/evaporation cycle
>    (Eccl 1:7), as did Amos and Job (Amos 9:6; Job 36:27-28).  After read-
>    ing Psalm 8:8, Matthew F. Henry charted the sea currents which are still
>    recognized today.  Until recently, doctors had no idea how that blood
>    contained, in essence, the life of man, but the Bible did (Lev 17:11,
>    14).  Scientists cannot distinguish between the blood of races of 
>    people, just like God said in Acts 17:26.

OK... so there is some scientific-type knowledge in the Bible, but the
same is true of many religious texts.  Yes, they have their scientific 
innacuracies, but it seems to me that the Bible does as well.  So, in this
regard, the religious texts are probably all close to equal.

>9) The Bible's Undeniable Influence for Good - When taken in its purity
>    (I do not consider the adulterated version pushed by denominations
>    to be pure), it has done nothing but good.  It makes those who
>    would obey it the model parents, friends, neighbors, and citizens, if 
>    obeyed.

Well, I guess there must not be too many people who follow the teachings of
the real Bible then.  I don't know very many model parents or friends.  Most
often, I hear people use the Bible as justification to look down on someone
else.  Furthermore, the Bible promotes female inferiority which is not good.
If you believe it is, we would need to have a whole other discussion.

	The bottom line is this:  You cannot prove that the Bible is true.
You can believe it is true, and that is fine, but your reasons will never
convince anyone else who is a non-believer to believe.  Faith is not something
you can appeal to with logical argument.  Also, I would reccommend that you
read some other relgious documents before you tout the authority of your own.


"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary.  For those who don't
believe, no explanation is possible" - unknown author


Shari Heino