From: pricec@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (price carl wayne)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: MACS COST TOO MUCH (NOT!)
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:21:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: CS.1992Aug27.202129.12780
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.

[stuff deleted]

>>Either my english is too bad or you don`t want to understand. If you had ever
>>bought a computer you would have probably noticed companies selling computers
>>w/o OS, OSes w/o computers, and computers with OSes. 

>I have bought (or leased) four computers in my life: a Radio Shack TRS-80,
>an Osborne 1, an Atari ST, and a Macintosh IIsi.  All came with operating
>systems.  I'll repeat, no real computer company sells a machine without an
>operating system, anymore than a reliable car dealer sells a car without an
>engine.

Although it is true that a PC can be had without an OS, that is not the 
way they are usually sold.  The reason that they can be had without
an OS installed is if you want some OS, say SCO UNIX, that is not normally
part of a package, why should you have to pay money for an operating system
you'll never use.  Using your car anology, say your buying a Ford Mustang,
the biggest engine you can get from the dealer is a 3.0 liter (I don't 
know if this is the case, it's all hypothetical), but you want a 5.0 liter
and will put a 5.0 liter engine in your car no matter what.  Which would
you prefer, to buy the car and the 3.0 liter engine and then have to spend
the extra to buy a 5.0 liter engine (you can't resell the 3.0 liter 
because everyone who would want it got it with their car, and since we are
relating to a OS, the engine won't wear out).  

My point is that there are some people who don't want an OS forced on them
and are happy to buy the Machine without one, for the rest, the OS comes 
with the machine.

[More Deleted]

>>If you buy one of the mid-class or bigger PS/2 you get OS/2.

>You get more than that.  You get OS/2 and the right to pay through
>the nose when IBM upgrades to OS/2 v3 or OS/3 or whatever may come
>next.

The cost of my OS upgrades still does not make up for the difference in
the cost of the PC and the MAC.  (see below)

[More Deleted]
 
>Not all computers are created equal.  If a Macintosh (or any other
>machine) is more powerful than a cheap fly-by-night PC clone, there
>is no reason why it *should* cost the same.  If all you want is a
>stripped-down CPU, yes, you can pay less by getting a PC clone. But
>if you start to add in the cost of the hardware and software features
>that come standard with the Macintosh, you will soon find that you
>paid more for your PC clone than you would have for a Mac.  You can't
>deny that.  Your only response is, "Well, I don't reall need a fast
>SCSI drive, sound input, sound output, support for multiple monitors
>at different resolutions and color depths on a common desktop, foreign-
>language script support, decent graphics software, a good color monitor,
>the ability to use megabytes, even gigabytes of RAM without limitation....)
>If you want a stripped-down, crippled machine with limited capabilities, 
>by all means, buy a cheap PC clone.  Hell, buy a Commodore 64. I understand
>they're very popular in Germany.  But if you a versatile machine capable
>of supporting a full range of productive and creative tasks, buy a Macintosh.

To start, a Macintosh is by no means more powerful than a PC clone, I work 
on both (IIci and a 486/33) and the PC will blow the Mac out of the water 
in speed and performance.  I have not had the chance to use a quadra yet,
but then I guess my pockets aren't deep enough to afford one.  

Now, let's get into the cost thing.  To buy a 486/50 with a fast 200MB 
SCSI drive (yes, most high end PC do use SCSI for performance), 16MB of
ram (70ns), SVGA monitor (1024x768 w/256 colors max resolution), 14" monitor
 OS and a mouse would cost me $2500 (from a local store, this is not even
going to the mail order places where I could shave off around $500 If I 
felt like doing some work to put it together).
To buy a Mac IIci with 4 meg of ram and 52MB hard drive, without a keyboard
or monitor, would cost me over $2900 educational price, more otherwise.
The built in video will not go to the same resolution as above so to get to
that resolution I would need a new card (had to do this with my ci to get 
two-page video).  I would also have to buy a keyboard and monitor (say apples
13" high resolution color monitor to get close to the above).  With all of
this, I would be running a cost of over $4000 without adding in the extra
expense of buying a larger hard drive, or 12MB more ram.  
Say I wanted to sound capabilities, and to drive the price up higher, say I 
wanted OS/2 and the PC and all the dealer had was DOS/Windows.  So I add
say $200 for a good stereo sound card (sound blaster pro with midi is around
$189) and $80 for OS/2.  The cost of my PC is now $2800, the Mac is over 
$4000 (could easily go over $5000 if I wanter the 16MB of Ram and the extra
150MB of hard disk space), for that $1000 how many upgrades of the OS could
I afford, well at the average cost of $50 a peice, I could get 20.  Say I  
upgrade my OS every year, that's 20 years, a lot longer than I plan on 
running my system for.  In 20 years I plan on having what is today's 
supercomputing power on my desk.  So what do I spend the extra money on?
maybe a card to do video overlay and editing ($400), or a mirad of ather
things.  All I know is that the Mac is not cheaper.  If you like it fine,
use it, but everything you said above is available cheaper on the PC.

I use both and I know.

--Carl

-- 
Carl W. Price		 	*      * Work keeps us from three evils:     * 
Computer Engineering Student	*      * boredom, vice, and need.            *
Oregon State University		*      *                                     *
pricec@prism.cs.orst.edu	*      *       ---Voltaire                   *