From: ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: misrepresentation of islam (reply to hossein)
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:50:55 GMT
Organization: British Telecom

In article <C19u1F.Bx1@ucunix.san.uc.edu> minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) writes:

> In article <1993Jan21.105053.2246@fmg.bt.co.uk> ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani) writes:
> >
> >Zafar,
> >
> >I never attributed the term "omm-al-fassad" to Qor'an or even a
> >hadith.  As I mentioned in my previous post, it is YOU who first
> >equate every nasty thing with Islam/Qor'an (albeit attributing it to
> >your opponents) and then try to refute it.  So stop this nonsense of
> >refuting imaginary allegations etc.
> >
> >I also said that I am not going to enter into a debate on Islam in
> >SCI.  What I am mainly concerned with - and is of concern to people on
> >this net - is the *realities* of life in Iran.  And I would honestly
> >advise you that you are wasting your time.  You may preach to the
> >converted few on this net.  As the vast majority, they have experinced
> >a form of "Islamic" rule on their own or friends lives in the form of
> >opperssion, tortures, murders, rapes, massacres etc in the name of
> >God/Islam/Qor'an/hadith.  Whatever else you say about Islam is
> >academic, and not of interest to the people who have suffered these
> >brutual realities.
> >
> >-hossein

> you may not have said out-right that omm-al-fassad is in quran or hadith, but
> when you say that such an attitude is a part of islam then you are implying

I did not say that this attitude "is a part of islam".

> that it actually IS said somewhere in quran or hadith. and as far as me equating
> everything bad to islam and then putting it on you, that is the most backward
> logic i have ever heard. 

Forget about "logic".  See how you attribute statement to others
(above and below).

> i was not the one who said that islam allows raped
> women to be killed, 

Neither was I.

> i was not the one who said islam allows for wife beating

Well, it is said in Qr'an.  (So it can't be "bad"!)

> i was not the one who said that islam allows the husband to kill a wife who
> is having an affair to be killed on hte spot, regardless of the circumstances.

Neither was I.

> you were the one who said these things 

No, I wasn't.

> and i simply reponded by showing you
> what the quran and hadith really have to say about these things. 

By "really" you mean selective quotes from Qor'an with your favourite
interpretations, and finding supprting hadithes, calling them
"reliable" and labelling straight translations or other
interpretations as not reliable and opposing hadithes as "daif".

> yes they maybe
> the realities of life in iran. but that doesn't justify the government or
> anyone else to say, "well, islam.... etc. etc." 

Exactly.  Nobody, and I mean nobody, whould be allowed to justify
their actions towards other people on religious grounds and/or divine
texts/authority.  The only justification is consensus or laws enacted
through democratic procedures based on a set of principles
guaranteeing equal human rights to all people regardless of their
race, religion, sex or any other in-born characteristics or sets of
beliefs.

> zafar

-hossein

p.s.  By the way, which of the Mohammad's wife was a judge?  And where did
you find this "reliable" information?  I am curious to know.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian