HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Preparing For The Earth Changes.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:58:13 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Keywords: Earth Changes

In article <1992Jul9.061809.29762@u.washington.edu> cruiser1@milton.u.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) writes:

>Looking at how the planet has been changing in the last few decades,
>one can see many positive and negative things. Just 20 years or so
>ago, about the worst problem facing our schools was people chewing gum
>and cutting in line. Now we have teen pregnancies, suicides, drug
>dealers, psychos of all kinds

  There have ALWAYS been suicides, drug dealers, teen pregnancies, 
  and psychos of all kinds.   What planet did you come from (oops:
  inadvertent support for UFO fans).   What do you call Hitler or
  Vlad the Impaler?  What do you call the Opium Wars?  Crack a 
  history book, fer crissake!


>to help the environment in a way unsurpassed before. Not long ago, the
>majority of Americans were immersed in a life of materialism, but
>after the revolutionary changes in the 1960's and the spread of the
>New Age movement in the late 1980's, many now realize a spiritual side
>to life.

  Gee there's a new idea: religion.   What do you call Islam, Buddhism,
  and Christianity?  Go back further and see Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, 
  Judaism, etc.   Go forward and see all the spiritualist and transcenden-
  talist movements of the 19th century.  Walter D. Pullen is indeed one
  ignorant poster.


 
>The consensus seems to be that such a gateway is rapidly approaching,
>due to reasons presented earlier. There is talk of things such as a
>new era, the Aquarian Age, Earth entering the "fourth dimension", 1000
>years of Peace, and so on.

  Read some history, you moron!   Apocalyptic images, ideas, and visions
  have been popular for centuries!   Look at the Book of the Revelation
  which was written 1900 years ago and was widely believed to be referring  
  to events contemporary to that time.  Go back further and look at Isaiah
  or look at other images and expectations in our own history.  In 1033 a
  group of European prophets proclaimed the imminent end of the world.
  William Miller proclaimed April 3, 1843 as the Judgement Day.  In 1910
  it was widely believed the world would be destroyed by Halley's comet.
  A group of Hindu astrologers proclaimed February 1962 as the end of
  the world.   


>It is important for one not to get worried about whether they are
>going on or staying behind.
 
  How the hell are we supposed to sell them any books if they don't get
  worried?!  
  

>There is only one thing that will determine how the Earth Changes will
>affect one: *vibration*.
  
  Does this mean I shouldn't get that front-end alignment I've had
  scheduled?



  
>A confession: It is possible that nothing significant at all will
>happen

  I guess the Thorazine's finally starting to kick in, huh Walt?

         

---peter


Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: jeffjc@cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey CHANCE)
Subject: Re: Krishnamurti's Falsehoods
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:37:56 GMT

Linda Birmingham wrote:

>In article <1992Jul20.171019.30389@davidsys.com> khan@davidsys.com writes:
>>
>>  I can understand why Krishnamurti would be very
>>popular among certain peoples of today. You see,
>>people who are in the arrogance of denial of God
>You are retaliating against K's words without questioning what he
>means by the words.. He doesn't believe in the
>God that has dogma and religion surrounding it. But he talks
>about love. Isn't God Love ??
>
>>Krishnamurti asserts that he has no belief,
>When you know something you don't need to believe it.
>
>>  Krishnamurti's philosophy is married to
>>this world. He has no belief in afterlife,
>>and in the afterlife is where he is at right
>
>I haven't read his talks on this but I suspect .. as in many of the talks I
>have read .. he doesn't answer a question about his belief in after life
>but instead gets the questioner to look at him/her self.
>
>>now. How can anyone get any hint of truth
>>by believing in the illusion of this life.
>
>That IS his philosophy. That we must not be misled by the illusions of
>this life.
>
>>we are going thru a test. Those who design
>>a philosophy that is married to this life,
>>will reject the test and the commandments
>>of God that differentiate between Right and Wrong.
>
>He hasn't designed a philosophy- how can he if he doesn't believe in beliefs!
>
>Linda.

I think Linda has given excellent responses here. Yup, Im an admirer of
Krishnamurti as well. For me, Krishnamurti's life was a completely
unique thing. This man's whole aim was to try to get people to stop
clinging to mental concepts and preconceptions, and to just stop and
experience the beauty of life here and now. I know of no one else in
history as unique in his thoughts on life as Krishnamurti.

This doesn't mean I dont have any opinions on things. I believe in
God and the value of a guru and the afterlife, etc. (things Krishna-
murti didn't teach about), but that doesn't in the least detract 
from my high opinion of him.  

Some books were mentioned. I would also recommend "Think on These
Things", an excellent book of talks by Krishnamurti (actually the
only one I've read all the way through). 

Jeff
--------------------------------------------------------------
|    Jeff Chance                       | That to which you   |
|    Dept. of Chemistry                | give your attention |
|    McGill University, Montreal       | becomes stronger in |
|    MAIL: jeffjc@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca | your life.          |
--------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3555 alt.alien.visitors:4907 sci.skeptic:13342
From: caina@merrimack.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:51:54 GMT
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA

In article <62886@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear Dan: I wish that I had you with me yesterday down in Souther Calif.
> on a 5 miles hike into some American Indian ancient country. That would
> have taken some of the starch out of your levies. We were in an area
> where people have sightings of what the indians call Thunderbird and 
> what scientist call the pterodactyl.
> John Winston.

   And what everyone else calls a bad drug trip.  Are you sure you weren't
tripping and watching the "Flinstones" at the same time?  Next you'll be 
telling us Bigfoot is Elvis' love child.

Alex
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3484 alt.alien.visitors:4786 sci.skeptic:13200
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 19:09:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Dear Doug: It sounds like you have a clear alert mind and your not
afraid to stand out from the other people and say what you think.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng)
Subject: Re: Sweeping Generalization Alert!
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:55:05 GMT

In article <l70er9INNged@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> danoc@earlybird.Eng.Sun.COM (Dan O'Connell [CONTRACTOR]) writes:
>(Doug Thompson) writes:
>
>>3) Many Jews today recognize Jesus as Messiah, so I quibble with your 'from
>>the Jewish perspective'. "From the perspective of non-believing Jews . . ."
>>ok.
>
>Oh? No religious jews I have heard about (with the minor exception
>of "Jews for Jesus") believe that Jesus was >the< Christ (i.e.,
>"the anointed one"). 
>
>If you have other information, I'd be interested to read it.

Have you ever heard of the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America?
It is headed by a guy by the name of Bruce Cohen, a Messianic Jew, who
has accepted Jesus Christ as Yeshua, the Messiah.  He grew up in
a small Jewish neighborhood.  He moved away when he went to college, 
and felt compelled to seek God at some point like never before.  This
lead him to Yeshua.  He returned to his Jewish neighborhood, to find
that his friends had the same experience.  Cohen claims there is
a world wide Messianic Jewish Revival.  The Messianic Jewish Alliance
is a world wide organization.  In every country just about there
is a chapter of it....shows also how far the Jews have been dispersed
through history.  In Israel alone, He claims there are 30 Messianic
Jewish churches, and he also claims revival is being seen like never
before.  The past two years have been amazing, in that collapse
of communism has opened the doors for dispersed Jews in Russia to 
come home to the promised land.  Cohen also claims that the
original promised land must return to Israel.  Another unbelievable
claim considering that it consists of Jordan, parts of Syria, Saudi Arabia.
This makes sense because Israel's borders need to expand to accommodate
all the dispersed Jews.

The more amazing the event, the more we will know the Hand of God is
behind it.

I can try to get Bruce Cohen's organization address if you like
to write the MJAA (messianic Jewish Alliance of America) for more
information.  He has a booklet, which describes the Jewish revival,
its scriptural significance, the promised land, the return of the 
Jews, and the role of Ishmael (Arab nations).  I have the booklet,
and I can get the publisher, if you like.

>---
>Dano

-Arnold Nordeng
nordenga@tc.fluke.COM

-- 
_______________________
-Arnold Nordeng           
 nordenga@tc.fluke.COM

"You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill 
 Him a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord
 and God.  But let us not come up with any patronising nonsense 
 about His being a great human teacher.  He has not left that 
 open to us.  He did not intend to."
                                        -C.S. Lewis.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: htoyryla@ntc01.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 06:35:57 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.185336.818@tc.fluke.COM>, nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng) writes:
> In article <1992Jul23.144549.18223@panix.com> moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz) writes:
>>Arnold E. Nordeng writes:
>>
>>>Then, (no flame intended), you must hold that God exists and he is not
>>>a being, or in a state of non-existence.  You must hold that God exists
>>>and doesn't exist.  They seem pretty mutually exclusive to me. 
>>>Can you support your reasoning to show how two contradictory statements
>>>can be affirmed? 
>>
>>The world is full of paradoxes that don't yield to logic.  If you try
>>to hold G-d to our human brand of logic I wouldn't be at all surprised
>>if you encountered paradox.
> 
> Oh, yes, I fully understand this.  But compatability of existence 
> and non-existence is not one of them.  It is illogical and inconsistent
> which is not one of God's characteristics.
> 

Isn't it that by describing God using concepts of the reality as it
appears to us, we are limiting God.

On the other hand, we have to use those concepts, as we haven't
any others, otherwise we couldn't be talking about God at all.

It would seem that ordinary concepts and attribute can be used
to talk about God, but not to define him.

A 9th century philosopher John Scotus Erigena argued that
God is both good and not good at the same time; in other
words, beyond good or supergood. The same holds for other
attributes, even existence ?

---------------
Hannu Toyryla
From: ed_l1@verifone.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: New Thread, an impersonal God
Date: 22 Jul 92 10:29:50 -1000
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI

In article <1992Jul15.181101.1347@tc.fluke.COM>, nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng) writes:
> Honest question.  Why do you believe God is All?  All can equally 
> not be God.  And there is no real difference.  The belief that
> everything is God is equivalent to athiesm, that everything is
> not God, or there is no God.  To fully know that everything is
> God you cannot be God which then is a self defeating belief.
> 
> -- 
> _______________________
> -Arnold Nordeng           
>  nordenga@tc.fluke.COM

Arnold, are you trying to use logic to find God?  Have you lost it?
Plus, your logic doesn't hold up.  Or you are using other limiting
notions of God imposed by other belief systems.

OK, honest answer to your question to Jeffery:

1. God is in all and all is in god.  Look at the majesty of a mountain
   or a molecule, and see god. God is in life and in death, in pleasure
   and pain, and in what humans call "good" and "evil."

2. Experience.  Try it, you'll like it.  Look for god in anything but
   yourself (though god is there - well hidden from ego).  Look for god 
   in a friend, in someone you pity, or in someone or something you
   hate.  Seek and ye shall find.

-- 
 //=====================================================================\\
|| Ed L'Esperance - P.O. Box 4635, Kane`ohe, Hawai`i 96744  U.S.A. Earth ||
|| Anthropologist, Writer, Editor, Earth Native       Ed_L1@VeriFone.Com ||
|| * Opinions Copyright (c) 1992 Ed L'Esperance.  All Rights Reserved. * ||
 \\=====================================================================//
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: tinsethg@ucs.orst.edu (Glenn Tinseth)
Subject: The Prime Directive 
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:31:19 GMT

In article <62554@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Part 2. We plan to cooperate in establishing this link in a technological,
>pragmmatic, Twentieth-Century working relationship.  One way this 
>cooperation between dimensions can become a reality is for Earthman in the
>majority, to invite us to land openly on your planet. To interfere in 
>the affairs of Man without an invitaion is in violation of interplanetary
>law. 

Hmmm, _begging_ for an invitation isn't interfering? 

Glenn "if they come, they better bring beer!" Tinseth

-- 
 Glenn Tinseth                                 Chemistry Department
 tinsethg@ucs.orst.edu                      Oregon State University
     Brewing all the beer I drink, drinking all the beer I brew.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: moskowit@tronsbox.xei.com (Len Moskowitz)
Subject: Re: Alignment of will, asking for help!
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 05:02:32 GMT

(There's little or no New Age content in this discussion so I've
directed followups to talk.religion.misc.)

Doug Thompson writes:

>There is a point of view which suggests that Judaism is less of religion
>than a nationality, or ethnicity. Of course nations or ethnic groups rarely
>try to seek converts.

Judaism is all of these.  We are most certainly a religion but we
don't seek converts.

>People with a religious understanding are usually eager to share it with
>others. 

While this is true of Christianity and other "one true way" religions,
it's not true in general.  Buddhism, for example, has a long history
of not proselytizing.  Only the recent fringe groups (e.g., Nichiren)
have broken with this tradition.

> ...Christianity claims to be a universal religion, that Christ came to
>save all people, not just Jews. Jews first, but not just Jews. I think that
>this is the main Jewish objection to Christianity, that it let in the rabble
>- nay it *encouraged the rabble* to join in the fun.

First of all, Jews assert that we are all made in G-d's image, all
children of Adam and Eve.  None of us are *rabble*.  You needn't be
insulting.

Second, your objection is unfounded.  Judaism welcomes sincere
converts but first lets them know that they need not convert to live a
righteous life.  If they still want to be Jewish we welcome them with
open arms.

Third, the main Jewish objection to Christianity is that its
theological foundations are inconsistent with Judaism.

>If Judaism is so good, and really has the true way to God, then why on earth 
>would one *not* encourage others to share the Good News?

Why?  Because, unlike Christianity, Judaism says there's no "one true
way."  It's simply unnecessary for anyone but the Jews to be Jewish.
Everyone else can do just fine without being Jewish.  But if someone,
knowing this, still wanted to join us, we would welcome them.

>Most people find aggressive and beligerent evangelizing to be quite rude and 
>unwelcome, whatever faith is being evangelized.

I most certainly do.

> ... Exclusivity - Judaism is for 
>Jews and others aren't really wanted, thankyou very much, strikes me as 
>being just as rude.

You mis-state the Jewish perspective.  There's no exclusivity.
Sincere converts are welcome.

>Time and again in the Old Testament the prophets speak of God choosing 
>Israel to be a light to the nations, to demonstrate to the world God's 
>Glory. Time and again the prophets berate Israel for *failing* to live up to 
>it's part of the Covenant.

True, but I think we're doing better these days.  Time will tell.

>It is only through Christ and Christians that God's revelation to Moses, for 
>instance, has been made accessible to the world.

What about Islam?  One of the greatest Jewish sages has made a similar
point for both Christianity and Islam.

-- 
---

Len Moskowitz
moskowit@tronsbox.xei.com (preferred address)
moskowit@panix.com (alternate address)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 05:05:45 GMT

kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo) writes:

>In article <1992Jul17.213059.20168@tc.fluke.COM>, emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes:
>[...]
>... The problem:  it was tuned totally off from all the
>> other instruments and if played would cause total musical confusion and
>> dissonance.  You see, in music, an A note is 440Hz and the harmonics of that
>> frequency.  To have order and beauty, everyone must tune to this standard.
>> Otherwise there would be a trainwreck!  While each instrument is different
>> and unique, it must adhere to the absolute standard.
>Wrongo!  This is tyranny, to say that all must adhere to the same standard to
>have order and beauty.  Sounds like Nazism.

  well, first it's not nazism; second, reactionary comments glare like
fireworks and are heeded less.


Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: malea@milton.u.washington.edu (Julie Thompson)
Subject: Re: Harmonic Convergence in Sedona
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 06:51:58 GMT

In article <3231@master.CNA.TEK.COM> richa@aspen.CNA.TEK.COM (Rich Amber) writes:
>
>I have been to Sedona numerous times (I used to live in Grand Canyon).
>I have visited the vortexes (vortices?) to see what all the foofoorah
>was about. I *am* sensitive to mother earth's energies. There *is* a
>lot of that all over the valley Sedona is in. Any individual vortex
>however, is marketing hype to get you to bring your money and leave it
>in Sedona (or some gurus pocket).

What are these vortices?

>In the Light,
>Rich Amber

-Julie Thompson
From: walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Beginning to think is beginning to be undermined - Albert Camus.)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Date: 20 Jul 92 10:25:16 EST

In article <sbuckley.710827511@sfu.ca>, sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
> 
>   my question is more do you believe objective truth exists, 

yes.

> not whether you can fully know it.  

for an excellant overview of this from a scientific point of view,
check out the latest SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN - the article on
Quantum Philosophy. Great stuff. 

  ando.
From: kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: God, the Universe, and You (Creation)
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:20:11 EST

In article <sbuckley.712441042@sfu.ca>, sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
> kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo) writes:
>>Then these people would be by definition not physicists, because physicists are
>>intimately connected with the real, physical world.  Try reading Feynman a
>>little bit.  This doesn't belong on t.r.na.  If you have any further comments,
>>please email.
>   while physicists are intimately connected to the real world, every year
> there are new fizzix discoveries that further question our ability to 
> truly know with any kind of certainty what it is we're dealing with.
>   since this thread is god, the universe, and you [creation], i think
> this does belong in here.  
OK.  I think that I am interpreting this to mean that new physics discoveries
bring us new knowledge but also push out the bounds of potential knowledge evn
further.  So what?  What a challenge.  To roughly quote (I think) ACClarke,
"The world is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can
imagine."  I cannot think of a more exciting situation where we always have
more to learn.  Listen.  I will let you in on a secret.  Physics is a toybox,
not Pandora's box.  

GXKambic
standard disclaimer

Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: jeffjc@cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey CHANCE)
Subject: Re: Birth, rebirth and near death experiences
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:03:35 GMT

Bill Mayne wrote:
>In article <1992Jul24.095046.9225@qiclab.scn.rain.com> wong@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Wong Weng Fai) writes:
>
>A fairly interesting account of a Japanese television program on birth
>memories, related to rebirth and near death experiences. The moderator
>comments:
>
>>[This just squeaked in under the fence, follow-ups along the lines of
>> this post need to go elsewhere. -aaron]
>
>There is no need to be so zealous selecting what is appropriate here.
>The issue of rebirth is relevant to many eastern religions. Critical
>examination of evidence is a strong part of the Buddhist tradition,
>and maybe others. In general the field of eastern religion and philosophy
>(the distinction being mostly western) is broad. There are a lot of
>different traditions and angles on those traditions. Not everything will
>be of interest to everyone. The volume of s.r.e. isn't so high that readers
>can do some filtering of their own. I find all the Nichiren stuff offensive
>but you won't hear me calling for censorship. As long as the proselytizing
>Christians are held at bay and there is any connection to eastern thought
>please let this be a free forum. I'd even like to see tangents tolerated
>up to a point.
>
>Bill Mayne

I agree completely. There is a _lot_ of stuff that relates to eastern
thought. Just because a post doesn't have some Eastern buzzword in it
like "meditation" or "Buddhist" etc. doesn't mean it isn't topical for
sre. Or if someone doesn't agree with an eastern interpretation of
some phenomenon, and starts saying what they say, I think that is
appropriate too. Maybe that will lead to some new light being shed
on the subject.

Having said that, I think Aaron & Toshi still do a pretty good job
and do try to keep somewhat of a balance and focus to the postings.
Im glad they are there to do it and that _I'm_ not the one losing
many hours every week doing that job. (Although, I waste enough
time reading the newsgroups myself anyways  :-) ).

Jeff
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic