From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Subject: Re: Not a Myth at All
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:11:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.213720.6712@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>In article <C0I0qF.L6p@ncifcrf.gov> masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan7.155827.1075@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>>In article <C0G98r.5I1@ncifcrf.gov> masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:
>>
>>>>   For example, if a shopowner deals with an American customers who have a
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>command of Japanese and not with those who cannot communicate in Japanese,
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>that discrimination is not based on race. I used the TOEFL example 
>>>>because I saw the analogy with this type of situation.

>>>Again, how is it analagous?

>>   In both cases, people with the better communication skill are offered
>>more opportunities and service.

>Uh, no, the TOEFL is not given on the basis of race. However, in Japan, people
>can be (and are) denied service on the basis of race.

   What I compared was the situation described above (underlined) and TOEFL.
What you are doing is when I point out the analogy between A and B,
saying that I am wrong because A and C are different.

>>>Also, B H Chamberlain makes reference to "No Foreigners" signs in his book,
>>>written in 1904. Britain and Japan were allies at the time.

>>   I thought we were talking about the "No Foreigners" sings posted shortly
>>AFTER WWII that YOU mentioned, Fester-san.

>We were, then you mentioned something about "enemy". As there were signs 
>keeping non-ememies out for a long time, that hardly seems reasonable.

  As for discrimination against foreigners in Meiji era, I think that
"son-nou joui" ideology was a part of background. A related issue seems to
be being discussed in another thread ("History book recommendation"?).
I don't know how this ideology is interpreted by hisotrians; racism?
nationalism? xenophobia? or resistance against possible occupation? 

>>>However, the signs forbidding foreigners went up almost immediately. Sure
>>>looks racist.
>>
>>   I don't get why "almost immediately" makes it more racist than, say,
>>"after 6 months."
>
>Uh, how about they couldn't have had any bad experiences BEFORE they the 
>occupying soldiers on their soil.

 [Sarcasm mode on]

   Ok, ok. Before occupying soldiers landed, there had been nothing much.
There were only a couple of Japanese who had their families killed and
only a couple of house bombed.

 [Off, uh not really.]

>My reaction, too.
> You called the TOEFL an example of racism similar to posting
>"No gaijin" signs.

   Would you specify which sentence of mine gave you that impression, which is
incorrect? 

>>>News flash: English IS the official language of all the United States. Has 
>>>been since its inception.

>>   Are you sure about this? The newspaper article which I read said that
>>in Maryland where I live, there was a movement to make English _the official_
>>language. In the same article, it was said that only in Florida and Hawaii,
>>there is a legislation to define English as _the official_ language.
>>In Maryland, we can still take a written exam for driver's license in 
>>Spanish and Korean as well as English. (Is it ture that they have even a
>>Japanese exam in N.J.?)

>Uh, yes I am very certain of this; the first Continental Congress voted English
>the official language of the United States (the runner-up was German; by a 
>single vote). 

   Actually, I received e-mail from another netter who also said that there
is no official language for the entire US. Would anyone in this group be 
knowledgeable enough to comment on this? Since I have to leave for Japan
soon, I don't have time to find the newpaper article that I read.
 
>>   Oh well, my memory could be worng. If that is the case, I apologize for
>>my misinformation. I'd appreciate it if you could let me know how
>>English is defined as the official language in the US.

>See above.

   See above. I suspend my apology until I get something that convinces
me of my mistake. If someone has some information to convince me
either way, I'd appreciate it if you could mail it to me.

--Michiaki