From: beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!cs.utexas.edu!souther (Art Souther)
Subject: Re: German Physics
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 01:56:01 GMT

Original-Sender: cs.utexas.edu!souther (Art Souther)

> Original-Sender: Peshewegunzh <mthvax.cs.miami.edu!mamia!peshe>

>> ... Alan's Nazism stuff and Peshe's reply.....

Peshe's conclusion:
> I have answered the above statements rather extensively and fairly
> completely, because I detected a kind of intellectual superiority
> about the last response which is uncalled for. I think that this should
> put to an end any comments about the likelihood or not of any
> particular Indian being unaware of historical or philosophical
> developments. I think we should realize that we speak as equals. The
> reason is, of course, that while Europeans have difficulty speaking
> for Indians, Indians have been forced to acclimatize to European
> modes, and can thus speak validly there, too.

This ongoing exchange, and others which were similar that have gone on
over the last two years in Native Net, while highly informative, have
had a truly tragic side.  I wonder if it has been as painful for
others as it has for me. Here are two people, obviously very
knowledgeable and articulate, who fail to acknowledge the common
ground they share.  Instead they seem more intent on demostrating
their intellectual superiority.  I give up, Peshe.  HELL, I HAVE A PHD
AND I'M OF THE WHITE PRIVILEGED CLASS but I certainly can't compete
with you.  I'm only thankful that someone with your intellect and
knowledge seems to be on my side, espousing for the most part what
SEEM TO ME to be beliefs and sentiments very similar to those I deeply
hold but am not nearly so accomplished at expressing.  And Alan, while
I am impressed with your command of ecology and other areas, including
references to Inuit goddesses, the scientific view you have expressed
concerning the importance of natural systems carry no more weight to
me than the conclusions of common sense, available long before western
science became so prominent.  Let's not confuse wisdom and knowledge,
as we of the Western intellectual tradition are wont to do.

Will it ever be time to use this forum for exploring the common ground
we have and cooperating on an exploration of a common future?  Every
suggestion in this vein has met with silence.  Is it such a
preposterous notion?

As far as an alliance between environmentalists and native americans,
I have yet to see any effective arguments for why such an alliance is
impossible.  I think the environmentalism expressed on this net has
been in good faith, and lacks the malevolence and ulterior motives
sometimes ascribed to it by Peshe.  On the other hand, I believe
Peshe's espousing of Christianity hardly reflects a naive duping by
the far right, as Alan asserts, and I have always thought that its
principles, if not its realization, have much to offer.  I imagine
most of the other readers on the net would agree with me.  What is the
point of this continued antagonism?  We have neither the time nor
energy to spend in confrontation when cooperation is so urgently
needed, given the strength of the opposition to our beliefs, the
considerable majority of which, I would claim, we hold in common.

Is it ridiculous to suggest that we try to define those general
beliefs and principles we share, and then consider what concrete steps
we can begin to take to realize those beliefs? What steps can we take
to assure viable ecosystems and viable native cultures, and to what
degree can these steps be mutually reinforcing?  Gary has often tried
to point out the common ground at a relatively abstract level, and has
provided us with many valuable starting points for exploring the
spiritual connection between man and nature.  I would like to share
this exploration with others on the net, and while exploring, seek
pragmatic and concrete ways to realize a world (or at least a part of
one) where body, mind and spirit move as one.

Art


--- End of forwarded message from nn.chat%gnosys.svle.ma.us@tamvm1.tamu.edu


Xref: sparky alt.native:969 alt.config:5666