From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (SCOTT C LOCKLIN)
Subject: Re: I Question this Institution
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:41:12 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug20.125144.3652@desire.wright.edu> r0016@desire.wright.edu writes:
>To let you in on where I am coming from, I'm just a browser.  Backround:  Roman
>Catholic...the works.  First, let me say that those of the Judeo-Christian

My condolences...

>ye be judged.")  So, don't go blowing me off as being one of the whores of
>Babylon, and so on.  I just want a few questions answered, and points brought

Nah, just a slave of the Whore of Babylon....

>up.  Mature, non-judgmental responses are happily welcomed...

how 'bout a mature non-judgemental posting?

>1.  In my religion, Satan is considered the "Father of Lies", "The Deciever",
>"The Liar", etc. etc...Okay--my point stems from the are-old quaestion about
>the two gate keepers.  G.K.#1 always tells the truth, G.K.#2 always lies.  The
>fundamental problem is that you must choose between two doors.  One leads to
>certain, horrible death, the other to paradise.  You are allowed to ask the
>gate keepers any yes-no questions you wish...How do you decide which door to
>open (preferably the non-fatal one!)  ANSWER:  Ask both G.K.'s which door the
>other G.K. will say leads to paradise, and then choose the opposite door. 
>(Becasue the truthful one will tell you that the liar will say that the
>doom-door is the right one--which IS the truth; and the Lying G.K. will say
>that the honest one will pick the doom-door as well, because the truth is that
>the honest one would have picked the right door, but the liar MUST lie, so he
>says the doom-door is the one that the honest one will pick.)  Okay, enough
>elementary stuff:

You stole this from a Dr Who episode, didn't you?! (one dealing with the
devil [Set] as well!)

>	1.  Lying is self-serving and self-service is indulgent.  Therefore,

Whoa there! Lying isn't always self-serving, and self-service isn't anywhere
near the type of indulgance that Satanism advocates. Leave it to a Chatholic
to misunderstand indulgance :)

>lying is self-indulgent...even when the lie is self-harmful, because the
>individual indulged his/her urge to take the consequences he/she would get for
>misrepresenting the truth (a.k.a. a lie.)

Semantic baloney, already destroyed by my previous point.

>	2.  Satanism preaches self-indulgence, and the progenitor of Satanism
>is, I can only assume, Satan...wheter he be of the Judeo-christian sort of
>devil, or he be an archetype.  Therefore Satan is self-indulgent, and uses lies
>for his personal self-indulgence (ie, he is a liar.)

Look- for the last (yah right) time; Satan, god etc. are LITERARY CREATIONS!

>	3.  Allow me to propose that there is a HELL...one where the eternal
>souls of those therein were tortured brutally over an eternity...One who's
>chief jurisdictor is Satan.  Allowing this assumption, then HELL is not a place
>that is desirable to go to...even to the most masochistic!

NOT ALLOWED

>	4.  Allow me to propose that certain actions here, on Earth, could earn
>you a ticket to HELL after death.  Let us not make these actions
>Christian-related, but let us say that such "inappropriate behavior" would
>include anything that seriously harmed the eternal development of the
>soul...not things like birth control, or stealing or coveting your neighbor's
>wife...things generally associated with Christianity...but things like rape,
>murder, destruction of livelihood or reputation...things that really hurt the
>people such actions are perpetrated against.  Things that slay the soul...

ALSO NOT ALLOWED...   BTW, I associate things like rape, murder and ESPECIALLY
destruction of livelihood & reputation with christianity. See my previous 
post, and the various crusades, religious wars, genocides wreaked in the
name of xtianity.

>	5.  Adimittedly, killing, raping, and slandering those whom you do not
>like is not only instinctual, but also very self-indulgent...especially from

no they are not. No animal higher than the reptiles has these urges "naturlly"
Frustrations brought about by society brings about the killing & raping 
(and xtainity is a BIG part of todays society). If these were "natural" acts
we would see the hunter-gatherer tribes doing them (s this is the most 
"natural" way of living; for most of humanitys existance we have lived as
Hunter-Gatherers). These acts only seem to appear in H-G societies when there
 are "civilized" people encroaching on their territories.Interesting how
you put slander in the same category as rape & murder. Guilty conscience?

>the viewpoint of making yourself supreme and unchallenged in your own realm. 
>These are things that are not entirely out of the range of human capability,
>however Satanism is the only religion that does not try to restrain its
>followers from such actions.  In a way it gives carte blanche to all of its
>members.  By sheer ommission, it condones such actions.

Thats a lot of bull, you don't have any idea (obviously) what is omitted &
not, you have done no reading, or have chosen to ignore what you read. 
"Carte Blanche" indeed!

>	6.  Allowing me, for the sake of argument, assumptions number 3 and 4
>above to stand, is it not true that perhaps you could go to hell for basically
>creating a hell-on-earth for someone else?  And is it not true that these
>things are self indulgent?  Yet no mention is given of punishment in your
>religion.  Why?

Assumptions 3&4 don't stand, they're a mass of presumption on your part. Living
on a planet with xtian fools is punishment enough. You have made an incorrect
statement again, There is punishment for those who ask for it...

>	Could it be that, like the lying gate-keeper, Satan will never tell you
>that the actions his religion condones will lead you to hell?  Sounds pretty

Literary creation; I stopped believing in these at about the same time as
the tooth-fairy etc.

>hard-core Catholic, hm?  Sorry, didn't mean to come off like that...however,

Thats OK, I'm sure you couldn't help yourself. Chatholicism disprooves the
old adage Ignorance=Bliss; I've rarely met happy chatholics (born & raised
this way myself... what a shitty way to go through life; in fear, guilt
and frustration-not for me... Great for masochists, look at some of the
saints!)

>how can you be sure that exactly what I have just said is not the truth?  If
>your religion says that there is no god, no punishment, and no hell...simply
>the rule to do what thou willst, and the figure-head of your religion is a
>liar, how can you have any doubt that what he stands for is a lie?  He would
>merely be practicing what he preaches--self indulgence...

I can tell what you have said is not the truth because you have committed at
least 2 of the fundamental errors of logic, several times. Again HE IS A 
LITERARY CREATION!!!!!

>	...And we haven't even touched on the subject of God yet!
Another false premise
>	Thanks for your time, and your responses (in advance)
>	I will sincerely be  awaiting a response.

Sure I love t flame; what'll I do when we have a FAQ? (I'll be back in class
by then & have no time for this nonsense)

-Scott (ex-chtholic)


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