HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: fj.misc,fj.news.group
Subject: Re: No Response to English Articles? [English]
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:17:36 GMT
Followup-To: fj.misc
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

claude@trc.mew.mei.co.jp (Claude Huss) writes:

[* I think somebody else said this next para *]

>    Some of Japanese netters has asked how often is the case
>that you post something to fj gropus in English, and failed to
>obtain any response at all.  If you have such experiences,
>would you please post how many times you've post, and how many
>times you successfully got any response?   This is what I Japanese
>cannot guess at all.  Oh, recent fj.news.group and fj.misc would
>be "exceptions," of course.

>IMHO, I think this is not that important. If there were responses,
>so what? It's not necessary to create a newsgroup?? I think this 
>kind of question come only to make more base for more sophisms...

I'm not sure, but also I think this is another ox-walk.  Has anybody
asked how many replies people have gotten to articles in Japanese on
the rest of USENET? 

>The key point is a group where foreigners as a minority group in
>Japan could debate about their problems, impressions and to get
>more information. I don't know the reason why everybody is calling
>for cross-posting and etc. I think all members would do that if
>they think that theme would be relevant to another newsgroup. I
>don't understand the reason for so overprotection... 

My suspicion is that if the articles to cross-posted, the people
calling for this would be happy, but another group would be unhappy
because they would be "forced" to read English and other
non-Japanese languages. 

IMHO there is no way both of these groups can be made happy except
for us to forget about such a group. And maybe it will come to this,
but after all, it's the vote that counts, doesn't it?  And if the
vote fails we can have a mailing list, can't we?

>Mr. Kuno, could you summarize the important points in the discussion
>so far? I think it would easier for everybody and make difficult to
>have flames meaningless...

Yes, please.

Dave

--
Dave McLane                                       davidg@aegis.or.jp
Sorry, I can only understand replies in English (or a little French).
You're free to copy/quote/translate this as long as credit is given. 
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: fj.misc,fj.news.group
Subject: Re: Tongue-twisters: was Re: NG for gaijin topics. (English)
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:58:54 GMT
Followup-To: fj.misc
Distribution: fj
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

I sent the following to jiro@math.keio.ac.jp
Subject: How many people read this group

In article <JIRO.92Jul21122150@amber.math.keio.ac.jp> jiro@math.keio.ac.jp (TANAKA Jiro) writes:

| $@!t:#!"$3$3$rFI$s$G$$$k?M$C$F!"$I$l$/$i$$$$$k$N$@$m$&!)(J	$@#R!%EDCfFsO:(J

| Mr. Tanaka is asking how many people read this group.
|
| Since I know some of you don't read Japanese, I thought I would point
| this message out. Maybe everyone who reads the group should reply either
| by post or email to Mr. Tanaka. I think a lot of us would be interested
| in the result.
|
| $@F|K\8l$NFI$a$J$$?M$b$$$^$9$+$i!"EDCf$5$s$N<ALd$r1Q8l$KLu$7$FD:$-$^$7$?(J.
| $@EDCf$5$s$K%j%W%i%$$9$k$h$&$K4j$$$^$7$?(J. $@7k2L$K6=L#$,$"$k?M$O>/$J$/$J$$(J
| $@$H;W$$$^$9(J.
| 
| Mark Dyer		English: markd@tdd.sj.nec.com
| NEC America, Inc.	 $@F|K\8l(J: markd@csl.sj.nec.com

FYI, here is a list of people on Aegis who are reading fj.xxxx:

fj.binaries.misc: barker [1]
fj.binaries.x68000: bobk [1]
fj.comp.texhax: tanemori [1]
fj.guide.general: edward [1]
fj.junet: morihiro [1]
fj.lan: umezawa [1]
fj.living: cking [1]
fj.mail-lists.info-japan: tanuki umezawa [2]
fj.meetings: jroth okushi [2]
fj.misc: davidg manji [2]
fj.misc.handicap: cking [1]
fj.net-people: okushi umezawa [2]
fj.news.group: davidg [1]
fj.news.policy: davidg [1]
fj.os.msdos: cking [1]
fj.questions.junet: umezawa [1]
fj.rec.ham: umezawa [1]
fj.rec.music.classical: edward [1]
fj.rec.play: bobk mnakauye [2]
fj.rec.travel.air: edward [1]
fj.rec.travel.world: edward [1]
fj.sci.astro: edward [1]
fj.soc.misc: misha [1]
fj.sources: barker [1]
fj.sys.j3100: barker edward [2]
fj.sys.mac: misha [1]
fj.sys.pc98: misha tanuki [2]
fj.sys.sun: barker [1]
fj.unix: barker [1]
fj.unix.wizards: barker [1]
fj.windows.misc: barker tanuki [2]
fj.windows.x: barker [1]

As you can guess, some are Japanese nationals, some from other
countries.

Hope that helps,

Dave

--
Dave McLane                                       davidg@aegis.or.jp
You're free to copy/quote/translate this as long as credit is given. 
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: No Response to English Articles? [English]
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:33:11 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

ishikawa@ds5200.personal-media.co.jp (Chiaki Ishikawa) writes:

>>>>>> On 29 Jul 92 00:35:15 GMT, claude@trc.mew.mei.co.jp (Claude Huss) said:

>Claude> AT LAST, I found a place, but my landlady "forced" me to sign
>Claude> a contract with clauses like "You must pledge to don't speak in loud
>Claude> voice", "You must pledge to don't invite friends from your
>Claude> country", "You must pledge to don't invite friends from yourcountry",
>Claude> "You must pledge to don't laugh", etc. etc. 
>	Gad. This is RIDICUROUS! Couldn't you do something to avoid
>this??? 

How did she "force" you, put a gun at your head? Call in her yakuza
brother? What exactly?

[* other stuff omitted *]

>My guess for the best remedy is that there is a japanese legal
>counselor's office to weed out this kind of blutant racism. You may
>want to contact them via your Japanese colleagues or your Japanese
>friend. 

Sorry, but I fail to see the connection between the problem and the
suggested remedy. He wants to get a place to live. He has trouble
with a landlady. He takes up the question of blatant racism? Sounds
like overkill to me...

If you walk into a restaurant and they don't have what you want,
do you file a charge with some legal counselor's office? No, you
find another restaurant.

But of course he says that he "AT LAST" found a place. What does
this mean? I mean how did he go about finding a place? For example,
did he talk to somebody who didn't have any problems and ask them
how they went about it? 

IMHO, the infamous "I was the object of blatant racism" complaint is
because there are a certain number of people who come to Japan and
believe "the wheel that squeaks is the one that gets oiled". Thus
they go around saying how badly they are treated in hope that
somebody will help them. But, unfortunately, this isn't how things
work here and the more you complain, the more problems you cause
yourself. And even more unfortunately the people who don't have any
problems tend to be quiet so you have to search them out...

Only my experience ;-)

Dave

--
Dave McLane                                       davidg@aegis.or.jp
Sorry, I can only understand replies in English (or a little French).
You're free to copy/quote/translate this as long as credit is given. 
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087






Newsgroups: fj.misc,soc.culture.japan
From: magnus@jaist-east.ac.jp (Magnus Halldorsson)
Subject: Re: Automatic U.S. citizenship (was non-natives in Japan)
Organization: School of Info. Science, JAIST Hokuriku, Japan
Distribution: fj
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 07:23:31 GMT

Let me try to clarify:

  The US follows the 'jus soli' rule of citizenship; namely, a person
born on US soil is automatically eligible for a US citizenship.
The US, as well as in most other countries, also follows the other
main principle that children can also obtain the citizenship(s) of
their parents.

  For instance, my daughter has currently three nationality, and
thus appears in three different passports. She is Japanese through her
mother, Icelandic through me, and American because she was born in the
US. (She also has three different set of full names, due to different
naming systems, but that's another story.) When she becomes 18, she
will have to renounce two of these citizenships since none of these
countries allow dual citizenships for adults. 

  I understand there is a possibility that a child can lose her US
citizenship if she ever enters the country as an foreign citizen
rather (from what the US embassy told us the first time we were to
return to the US after her birth).

Magnus
From: ishikawa@ds5200.personal-media.co.jp (Chiaki Ishikawa)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: No Response to English Articles? [English]
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:14:56 GMT
	<CLAUDE.92Jul28180617@tokyo.trc.mew.mei.co.jp> <2185@aegis.or.jp>
	<CLAUDE.92Jul29093529@tokyo.trc.mew.mei.co.jp>
Reply-To: ishikawa@personal-media.co.jp
Followup-To: fj.misc
Organization: Personal Media Corp., Tokyo Japan
In-reply-to: claude@trc.mew.mei.co.jp's message of 29 Jul 92 00:35:15 GMT


>>>>> On 29 Jul 92 00:35:15 GMT, claude@trc.mew.mei.co.jp (Claude Huss) said:

Claude> AT LAST, I found a place, but my landlady "forced" me to sign
Claude> a contract with clauses like "You must pledge to don't speak in loud
Claude> voice", "You must pledge to don't invite friends from your
Claude> country", "You must pledge to don't invite friends from yourcountry",
Claude> "You must pledge to don't laugh", etc. etc. 
	Gad. This is RIDICUROUS! Couldn't you do something to avoid
this??? 
	Gee, I had a couple of cases where I had to be a guarantor (?)
for the lease of office to a Canadian man or for the lease of house of
a French man, and the fact they needed a JAPANESE GUARANTOR sort of
embarassed me quite a lot. They couldn't finish the deal until someone
Japanese put his/her name on the paper.  (The idea is, I believe, if
there is a trouble between the tenant and the landlord, they would
prefer to have a Japanese mediator, and worse, if the tenant fails to
pay the rent, the Japanese guarantor is put to guillotine before he/she
pays the overdue bill :-))
	But this landlady is excessive, isn't she?  I mean I can
certainly understand that "we shouldn't speak in loud voices" after
midnight that may wake up our neighbors or something like that, but
FLAME ON
  - "You must pledge to don't invite friends from yourcountry",
  - "You must pledge to don't laugh", etc. etc. 
is just RIDICUROUS. 
MORE FLAME.
	I mean 
  - was it written in English / Japanese / or other language?

My guess for the best remedy is that there is a japanese legal
counselor's office to weed out this kind of blutant racism. You may
want to contact them via your Japanese colleagues or your Japanese
friend.  The counselor's office, I have in mind is "$@?M8"MJ8n0Q0w2q(J
".(committee for protection of basic human rights.)  They may advise
you to have a deep discussion to get you off hook from this awful
document. Your company seems to be pretty big, and you may even get a
hint or two about this from the company's $@AmL3It(J or legal dept.

But, be diplomatic and tactful about this, if you surprise your
landlady by a call from the legal counselor or something out of blue,
she may get nastier.

Regards,



--
------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chiaki Ishikawa                       Phone:+81-3-5702-0351
  Personal Media Corp.                      FAX:+81-3-5702-0359
 MY Bldg, 1-7-7 Hiratsuka,   UUNET: ... uunet!pmcgw!ishikawa, or
 Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo 142                ishikawa%pmcgw@uunet.uu.net
        JAPAN                JUNET:     ishikawa@personal-media.co.jp
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lao@zoo.ncl.omron.co.jp (LAO Shihong)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: Chinese accent symbols (was Re: Tohnyu Soup (Chinese food))
Date: 30 Jul 92 10:23:26 GMT
	<JIN.92Jul29170857@sky.astem.or.jp>
	<CLAUDE.92Jul29175848@tokyo.trc.mew.mei.co.jp>
	<1992Jul29.141419.27749@rkna50.riken.go.jp>
	<CLAUDE.92Jul30120838@tokyo.trc.mew.mei.co.jp>
Followup-To: fj.misc
Distribution: fj
Organization: OMRON Co., Kyoto, 617 Japan.
In-reply-to: claude@trc.mew.mei.co.jp's message of 30 Jul 92 03:08:38 GMT



>>>>> On 30 Jul 92 03:08:38 GMT, claude@trc.mew.mei.co.jp (Claude Huss) said:

Masa>     I have encounterd the same expressions elsewhere.  And, in my knowledge
Masa> there are four intonations in Chinese.  Is it like { - , \ , / , v } ?
Masa> If it's wrong, please tell me.  

CH> I learned the following rule (Please tell me whether I'm correct or not)


CH> 1) No accent      
CH> 2) /  accent
CH> 3) \/ accent (like a check mark)
CH> 4) \  accent
CH> 5) .  accent


1 -->  -
2 -->  /
3 -->  v
4 -->  \
there is no . accent.

----LAO Shihong
Xref: sparky fj.misc:466 fj.news.group:2660
From: kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp (Yasushi Kuno)
Newsgroups: fj.misc,fj.news.group
Subject: Re: No Response to English Articles? [Japanese]
Date: 31 Jul 92 06:31:35 GMT
Organization: GSSM Otsuka, Univ. of TSUKUBA, Tokyo, Japan

$B5WLn$G$9!#(J

  $B0J2<$N;d$N5-;v$K$D$$$F$G$9$,!#(J

kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp (Yasushi Kuno) writes:
>     Some of Japanese netters has asked how often is the case
> that you post something to fj gropus in English, and failed to
> obtain any response at all.  If you have such experiences,
> would you please post how many times you've post, and how many
> times you successfully got any response?   This is what I Japanese
> cannot guess at all.  Oh, recent fj.news.group and fj.misc would
> be "exceptions," of course.

  $B8M:j$5$s$+$i!"!V$3$l$O;d$N=q$$$?$3$H$K4XO"$7$F$$$k$N$G$O$J$$$+!"(J
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							    $B5WLn(J
Xref: sparky fj.misc:419 fj.news.group:2607
From: kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp (Yasushi Kuno)
Newsgroups: fj.misc,fj.news.group
Subject: Re: No Response to English Articles? [English]
Date: 29 Jul 92 06:15:00 GMT
Organization: GSSM Otsuka, Univ. of TSUKUBA, Tokyo, Japan

claude@trc.mew.mei.co.jp (Claude Huss) writes:
> IMHO, I think this is not that important. If there were responses,
> so what? It's not necessary to create a newsgroup?? I think this 
> kind of question come only to make more base for more sophisms...

    Hmm, I simply thought that, "existing fj newsgroup shoule be
sufficient" can easily be broken by "no, we can't obtain effective
responses against English article."  But as you pointed out, it
might be an overprotection...

> Mr. Kuno, could you summarize the important points in the discussion
> so far? I think it would easier for everybody and make difficult to
> have flames meaningless...

    Surely I'll do.  Yet there are problem of "translation can
be biased, so cannot be relyed upon" argument.  Sigh...

						   Yasushi Kuno
Newsgroups: fj.misc,soc.culture.japan
From: jice@echo.asd.sgi.com (John Eisenman)
Subject: Re: Automatic U.S. citizenship (was non-natives in Japan)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: fj
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:12:23 GMT

In article <WEIGERT.92Jul21194641@etlhit.etl.go.jp>,
weigert@etlhit.etl.go.jp (Thomas Weigert) writes:
|> MH>   For instance, my daughter has currently three nationality,
|> and
|> MH> thus appears in three different passports. She is Japanese
|> through her
|> MH> mother, Icelandic through me, and American because she was born
|> in the
|> MH> US. (She also has three different set of full names, due to
|> different
|> MH> naming systems, but that's another story.) When she becomes 18,
|> she
|> MH> will have to renounce two of these citizenships since none of
|> these
|> MH> countries allow dual citizenships for adults. 
|> 
|> Actually this is not quite true. The U.S. does allow dual
|> citicenship. There has been a long standing (purposeful?)
|> misinterpretation of the law by the state department, but
|> during the last couple of years this has been contested in
|> court successfully several times. Sorry,  I am no lawyer and
|> can provide no references.
|> 
|> Cheers, Thomas
|> 

This seems to be consistant with what other people are saying, and
with the experience of a number of my friends.  One friend who was
born in the US, but moved to Canada while very young has citizenship
in both countries.  He was made to beleive that he would have to 
decide which to keep at 18 or 21, but he was never forced to make
the choice and so has kept both and uses the passport that is most
convenient.
From: stevef@csl.sony.co.jp
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Good Pool Bar [English]
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:32:01 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Sony Computer Science Laboratory Inc., Tokyo, Japan


Hi,

I was wondering if anybody could recommend a good pool (billiards) bar
in Tokyo...I have seen a few "pool halls" but I prefer a small bar,
that serves food and beer, and has a few pool tables also.

Anybody know of places like this??


Thanks,


Steve
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Franks			Mail:	Sony Computer Science Lab
$@9%DkIp(J
EMail:	 stevef@csl.sony.co.jp		Takanawa Muse Bldg.
Phone:	 +81-3-3448-4380		3-14-13 Higashigotanda
Fax:	 +81-3-3448-4273		Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo 141 Japan
From: takenaka@nttsgw.yh.ntts.co.jp (Hikaru Takenaka)
Newsgroups: fj.misc.handicap
Subject: Re: One Side Deaf
Date: 29 Jul 92 05:53:37 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: NTT Software Corporation, Yokohama, Japan
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

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ent@icews1.ipc.kanazawa-u.ac.jp (Tetsuya Takiguchi) writes:
: In article <MIYAMOTO.92Jul17131302@okilab.okilab.oki.co.jp> miyamoto@okilab.okilab.oki.co.jp (Ichiro Miyamoto) writes:
: >$@5\K\!w#O#K#I$G$9!#(J
: >
: 
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: >
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--
$@C]Cf(J  $@8w(J |$@#N#T#T%=%U%H%&%'%"3t<02q<R(J takenaka@yh.ntts.co.jp (0422-51-4151)
-- 
--
$@C]Cf(J  $@8w(J |$@#N#T#T%=%U%H%&%'%"3t<02q<R(J takenaka@yh.ntts.co.jp (0422-51-4151)
From: ent@icews1.ipc.kanazawa-u.ac.jp (Tetsuya Takiguchi)
Newsgroups: fj.misc.handicap
Subject: Re: One Side Deaf
Date: 20 Jul 92 12:11:16 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Kanazawa University Information Processing Center, Kanazawa, Japan

In article <MIYAMOTO.92Jul17131302@okilab.okilab.oki.co.jp> miyamoto@okilab.okilab.oki.co.jp (Ichiro Miyamoto) writes:
>$B5\K\!w#O#K#I$G$9!#(B
>

>   *$B!HJR<*$7$+J9$3$($J$$!I(B
>   *$B$C$F$$$&$N$O$I$&$J$s$G$7$g$&!)(B
>   *$B?HFb$G$$$k$s$G$9$1$I!"2?$bBP=h$7$F$J$$$_$?$$!#(B
>$BLr=jJ!;c2]$X?=@A$7$F!";XDjIB1!$GD0NO8!::$r<u$1$l$P!"?HBN>c32(B
>$B<T<jD"$rH/9T$7$F$/$l$^$9!#(B
>

$BJR<*$,O8$G$b!$$b$&JR<*$,@5>o$J$i?H>c<T$H$O$J$j$^$;$s!%(B


                                $BBm8}E/Li!!6bBtBg3X0e3XIt<*I!0v9"2J3X65<<(B
                                         ent@icews1.ipc.kanazawa-u.ac.jp
                                $B$J$s$@$+(Bmohta$B;aIw!%!%!%(B
From: t-nishim@dn.softbank.co.jp (Tetsuya Nishimaki)
Newsgroups: fj.misc.handicap
Subject: Re: One Side Deaf
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:58:39 GMT
	<MIYAMOTO.92Jul17131302@okilab.okilab.oki.co.jp>
Distribution: fj
Organization: SOFTBANK CORP. DATANET DEPT.
In-reply-to: miyamoto@okilab.okilab.oki.co.jp's message of 17 Jul 92 13:13:02 JST


  $@%=%U%H%P%s%/$N@>KR$G$9!#(J

In article <MIYAMOTO.92Jul17131302@okilab.okilab.oki.co.jp> miyamoto@okilab.okilab.oki.co.jp (Ichiro Miyamoto) writes:

> $@BgJQCY$$%U%)%m!<$K$J$j$^$7$?$,!D!#(J(^^);;;

  $@B3$1$FBgJQCY$$%U%)%m!<$K$J$C$F$7$^$$$^$7(J$@$?$,!D(J

> $@$7$s$7$s;a(JIn article <SHINSHIN.92Jul2182733@ale.trad.pfu.fujitsu.co.JP> shinshin@pfu.fujitsu.co.jp (Shin-Aw-OKADA) writes:
> 
>    *$@?HBN>c32<T>c32DxEYEy5iI=$NOC$,=P$F$^$7$?$,!"(J
>    *$@!HJR<*$7$+(J$@J9$3$($J$$!I(J
>    *$@$C$F$$$&$N$O$I$&$J$s$G$7$g$&!)(J
> $@Lr=jJ!;c2]$X?=@A$7$F!";XDjIB1!$GD0NO8!::$r<u$1$l$P(J$@!"?HBN>c32(J
> $@<T<jD"$rH/9T$7$F$/$l$^$9!#(J

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$@$^$9!#(J

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  $@>e$N$b$N(J

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$@$I$J$?$+%U%)%m!<$r$7$F$b$i$($^$;$s$+!)(J
--

                  $@%=%U%H%P%s%/(J($@3t(J) $@%G!<(J$@%?%M%C%H;v6HIt(J $@%7%9%F%`3+H/2](J
                  t-nishim@dn.softbank.co.jp               $@@>KR(J $@E/Li(J