HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Date: 12 Sep 1992 21:30:06 -0500
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep12.230246.18774@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
=In article <79608@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
=>
=>I am one "born in America" person who considers himself to be Chinese
=>as well as being an American.  That seems to bother some TI people.
=
=And the fact that many anti-TI people are *not* KMT or CCP seems to bother
=them as well, if the personal attacks by our friend on the net is an
=indication of how most TIers think.

And the fact that many anti-KMT and anti-CCP people are *not* TI seems 
to bother them as well, if the personal attacks by our friend on the 
net is an indication of how most KMT-ers and CCP-ers think.

=Face it, ROT (what a nice abbreviation!); by grouping all non-for-TI (not
=just anti-TI) people into either the Nationalist or the Communist camp, you
=are alienating potential supporters of TI.  If that is what you want, fine;

Face it, Cloudy (what a nice abbreviation!); by grouping all non-for-KMT (not
just anti-KMT) people into either the Nationalist or the Communist camp, you
are alienating potential supporters of KMT.  

=If that is what you want, fine;
=but then don't expect Taiwan to *declare* independence for another century
=or so.  You get your goals accomplished by increasing the base of support,
=not by decreasing it.

Taiwanese never wants to declare independence anyway, because
Taiwan is an independent country. If you are a man, why you wanner
declare you are a man. If you are a non-man, you certainly do
not want to declare you are a non-man.  ;-)


I don't mind getting KMT to drop KMT's claiming 'KMT owns
KMT's Tibet, Mongolia and Mainland China and preparing to
recover and invade Tibet, Mongolia and Mainland China.'
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: BSR and WSR
Date: 13 Sep 92 14:42:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntpd.1992Sep13.140302.4170
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <2AB31452.15342@news.service.uci.edu>, tao@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Eric Yihching Tao) writes...
>In article <BuI6vr.MxM@acsu.buffalo.edu> v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
> 
>I don't think BSR wants to expel WSR, but a lot of polictians want to exploit
>the language differece and provoke hatray between groups, that is rather 
>distasteful. For example, couple of years ago when I was in New York, in one
>of the TI meeting, people spoke mandarine are rediculed and forced out of the
>building violently, I hope those kind of thing won't happen again.

Some TIers have been living in the U.S. for many years. To some of them, 
the impressions about KMT and Taiwan still remain in the 50s and 60s. 
Some of them may have been victims of past KMT political repression so 
that they want to see any KMT-related to be destroyed in their life time.
But their old KMT has gone into the history and they are still fighting 
with it. Sad.

Learn lesson from the past and look forward are probably more healthy 
attitudes.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Subject: Su-27
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 13:08:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.123739.27621@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> tsai@tecrus.enet.dec.com (Kuo-Yeang Tsai) writes:
=
=Anyone care to comment on "F-16 A/B vs. Su-27" ? Or "F-16 A/B vs. Mig-29/31"?


Some of the ROC fighter pilots who went to Russia and test
fly Su-27 in secret, comment that Su-27 is a super fighter
and is even better than F-16.

There has no reason why Taiwan should not buy Su-27.
There has no reason why Taiwanese should not
developing, mining and colonizing Syberia, but
because of weather, Taiwanese would rather colonizing
Southern Cal than Syberia.  :-)
From: suewu@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Susan Wu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: info on living/working in Taiwan requested
Date: 12 Sep 92 07:57:22 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide

G'day All!

i have been considering to live and work in Taiwan. 

i would appreciate any information to the following items :

1. average cost in renting a 3 bed-room apartment in a reasonably
   good neighborhood in Taipei

2. income tax 

3. the cost of health care

4. living expenses in Taipei 

5. i have been doing software development for about 7 years, 
   3 years in VLSI CAD software development, and  4 years in 
   embedded systems development. i am currently holding a MSc in 
   computing science.

   how well are software engineers with similar qualification/experience
   paid?

6. employment aspects in software engineering in Taipei.


thank you in advance.

best regards,
susan wu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: shchen@eos.ncsu.edu 
Subject: Re: Need some Pen Friends
Originator: shchen@c00535-106ps.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: shchen@eos.ncsu.edu 
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:57:16 GMT


In article <21733@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, bsou@cs.arizona.edu (Brandon S. Ou) writes:
|>
|>In article <1992Sep7.010259.19588@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
|>>In article <1992Sep6.122011.28700@csd.brispoly.ac.uk> c_tsai@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (C Tsai) writes:
|>
|>>>   Name: Chi-Lih TSAI
|>>>   Age:  24
|>>>   Sex:  Male
|>>         You need a bitch! That is why you are crying for "friends".
|>
|>Now now now, this is not a very nice thing to say... 
|>
|>Brandon
|>

Hey, let's tell it like it is.  I'm sure Mr Shi can use one himself.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: u322543@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw
Subject: RE: Su-27
Organization: Computer Center, NCU, Taiwan, R.O.C.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:33:45 GMT

o tsai@tecrus.enet.dec.com (Kuo-Yeang Tsai) writes:
>Anyone care to comment on "F-16 A/B vs. Su-27" ? Or "F-16 A/B vs. Mig-29/31"?

 I will post the comparison of Su-27, F-16A/B and MiG-29/31 soon.

o rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) write: 
>Some of the ROC fighter pilots who went to Russia and test
>fly Su-27 in secret, comment that Su-27 is a super fighter
>and is even better than F-16.

 At least I know two pre-pilots had test flied the Su-27. One is the air force
 Ace Ouyang Yifen and the other was also a famous pilot before. After flying
 Su-27, they think "there is no other fighter Taiwan can buy, even F-16 C/D,
 can compare to it!"
 That is true because Su-27's performance is the same class as F-15.

>There has no reason why Taiwan should not buy Su-27.
>There has no reason why Taiwanese should not
>developing, mining and colonizing Syberia, but
>because of weather, Taiwanese would rather colonizing
>Southern Cal than Syberia.  :-)

 That is not the point. We now are "under the control" of US. Don't you see
 after US displayed her "care", then Taiwan dares not buy Mirage 2000-5?

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
- Yishao Lai                    -
= u322543@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw   =
- u328385@sparc20.ncu.edu.tw    -
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: sala8864@hgc.edu (gustavo salas)
Subject: Re: Mirage?????
Organization: The Hartford Graduate Center
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:22:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.132216.1436@csd.brispoly.ac.uk> c_tsai@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (C Tsai) writes:
>
>Hello everyone:
>
>
>    Mirage 2000-5?????  Who knows about Mirage 2000-5????????
>Yesterday my French friends told me that Taiwan will buy Mirage from
>Frances..... Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!  
>
>   But they told me that in fact Mirage is not good aircraft??????
>They said Mirage only can attack on the day.....if on the night....
>Mirage will be uselesss....because Mirage can't attack on the night...
>So my french friends told me that" Tell your government.... Be careful
>Don't fly Mirage on the night.... It is too dangerous?????? "
>
>
>   When I heard that I was very surprise?????? Is it true or not?????
>I haven't any idea about weapon????? This news is told by my french
>friends......
>
>

I can't answer to your question whether the plane has night-attcak
capability(It is kinda hrad to believe a modern fighter plane like Mirage
has no such capability, though), but I do know there has not been single
order of the plane foom foreign  government for last 3 or 4 years. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korea,soc.culture.china
From: bihkyan@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Yang Yuanxin)
Subject: Re: Economical Statistics about Taiwan, S. Korea, China
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 16:25:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.141930.2996@engage.pko.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep3.223431.8932@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes...
>>In article <1992Sep2.023602.10104@ultb.isc.rit.edu> txc6266@ultb.isc.rit.edu (T.X. Cheng ) writes:
>>>Dear netters,
>>>
>>>    The following economical statistics table for your referance.
>>>
>>>Timothy Cheng
>>>--------------
>>>txc6266@ultb.isc.rit.edu
>>>
>>>
>>>Source: University of Maryland at College Park Information Database
>>>
>>>Item/Country         |    Taiwan      |    S. Korea    |    China
>>>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>>>Population (7/92)    |   20,658,702   |   43,134,386   |  1,151,486,981
>>>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>>>Export (Billion USD) |                |                |
>>>       (1991)        |      67.2      |      65        |     62.1
>>>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>>>Import (Billion USD) |                |                |
>>>       (1991)        |      54.7      |      70        |     53.4
>>>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>>>External debt        |                |                |
>>>(Billion USD, 1990)  |       1.1      |      31.7      |      51
>>>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>>>GNP  (Billion USD)   |     150.8      |      238       |     413
>>>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>>>GNP per capita (USD) |     7380       |     5600       |     370
>>>
>>Bullshit measure for economic power--GNP!
>
>If not, then by what?
>
>>exchange rate between U.S. dollar and German mark has dropped from 2.4
>>Mark/dollar to 1.4 Mark/dollar. is U.S. 40%(=1/2.4) percent less powerful just
>>for that, economically?
>
>Ok, let's use Mark as exchange unit and based on your rate (Mark/dollar to 1.4)
>then, 
>
>Item/Country         |    Taiwan      |    S. Korea    |    China
>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>GNP  (Billion Mark)  |     211.12     |      333.2     |     578.2
>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>GNP per capita (Mark)|     10332      |      7840      |     518
>
>It's Friday. :-)
>
>Tom
 IS this guy too stupid or what ? I know he can use a calculator though.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong
From: leung@DSG.Tandem.COM (Steven Leung)
Subject: Re: The AutuMid-Autumn Festival
Organization: Tandem Computers
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:49:48 GMT

I'd like to thank yilin@mits.mdata.fi (Yi-Lin Lee) for refreshing 
our memory of the fairy story about Chang-O. I'm actually more
interested in her life in the moon. All I know is that there appears
to be a Jade Rabbit accompanying her. And also, there is a fellow
by the name of Wu Gang living there too. Now, I have a few questions:

     1) How the Jade Rabbit and Wu Gang get there?
     2) Any story about what Chang-O and Wu Gang are doing there (no
        tabloid please)?

Steven
------
328. Seek opportunity, not security. ...
        - Life's Little Instruction Book by H. J. Brown, Jr.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang)
Subject: Re: Can we not all get along?
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 04:12:48 GMT

In article <78683@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>>Also, there is no such thing as big China.  
>
>What makes you say that?  I've seen the term "greater China" and
>"China region" used more and more often in essays on economics and
>foreign policy when writers want to refer to the bloc of
>(PRC, ROC, Macao, Hong Kong) in a politically neutral way.  
>
Sorry for the late response.

I do not care much about genetics although it is important in medical
transplants and DNA matching for criminals or relatives.

My view point is simple.  Within the Chinese Proper, there is not such
thing as singular China.  We cannot say there is one single Chinese
religion and we also should not say that there is one single Chinese
culture.  Similarly, there is no justification for Chinese of different
origins to share a singular homeland.  To create a concept of a singular
joined Chinese homeland cannot be independent from political motivation.

Another point is about the time dimension.  Every person has his or her
heritage that he or she might not know.  And everyone can trace his or
her root through different paths at different time stage.  There is no
reason that one must treat the homeland of one branch of his or her
ancestors at a past time period.

The myth of singular Chinese culture or entity will only perpetuate
culture genecides and negligence toward valueable culture relics
contradicting the "orthodox" Chinese culture.  Holo Taiwanese, marked
with the Austronesian Taiwanese heritage of "khan-chhiu", the ceremony
of marriage in the form of holding hands, embedding into a daily word
that means spouse, have to stop the state from distorying the evidences
of an ancient Taiwanese culture that once surpassed that of the origins
of Han nations.  The majority of Taiwanese have their root in Taiwan not
just a couple centuries but milliniums.  This root might seem irrelevant
from the view point of being a "Chinese", but Taiwanese cannot
understand their societal behaviors without understanding their
cosmopolitan past.

TY Huang
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: a few question about taiwan
Date: 14 Sep 1992 15:58:22 -0500
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep12.145926.12051@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
Lines deleted---


I am honor to be the #1 target of those 'hateful persons'.
They try to paint me as evil as possible, but I am evil
and I am welcome to be praised as evil as possible.  :-)

I have a bad memory to remember people's name. This is
why I always argue with arguments not with people.
(This means I don't care the posters are TI-er, KMT-er,
CCP-er or whatever-er)

I still remember couple years ago, no one on the net
will admit he or she is a TI promoter except Mitch.
Now, TI seems to be an equal to KMT and people start
to worry about what if TI-ers elected by the people
to be in charge of the new government.

IMHO, it is really a big progress toward a dmocratic
Taiwan.

I believe there has a lot of users in Taiwan paying
their attention on SCT closely, though they seldom
speak out their opinion.
From: yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Republic of Formosa
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:10:10 GMT
Reply-To: yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA, USA

In article <1992Sep15.173723.28658@wuecl.wustl.edu>, yl2@cec2.wustl.edu
(Yu-fung Liu) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep15.164240.13998@odin.corp.sgi.com>
yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang) writes:
|> >In article <1992Sep15.055806.15067@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
|> >claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
|> >|> In article <1992Sep14.231806.15537@wuecl.wustl.edu>
|> >yl2@cec2.wustl.edu (Yu-fung Liu) writes:
|> >|> 
|> >|> >Who care whether it is Portuguese or Spanish? California is part of
|> >|> >the US now and forever!
|> >|> 
|> >|> But it does matter.  Can you imagine Germany renaming itself Alemania
|> >|> (Spanish)?  Can you imagine Scotland renaming itself Caledonia (Latin)?
|> >
|> >Could not agree more.
|> >And it is not appropriate to use california as an example here.
|> >California was in the hands of spain. When US took it, it was named
|> >california already by spainish and there was more spainish speaking
|> >people live there (it may still be true today).
|> >
|> >To who ever think it does not matter or likes the name ROF:
|> >
|> >	Where is your pride?
|> >	We have a name in our own language and it is "TAIWAN".
|>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> What a   joke!
|> You have a good sense of humor, I like you!
|> Do you speak spanish, portuguese, or chinese?

My mother tongue is mandarin and taiwanese.
It is obvious that I speak english too.
I do not speak spanish or portugese.

And what is your point.

|> Ah, Ah, Ah! Thanks for your joke, I enjoy it.


I do not understand why someone want to make joke out of this very
serious matter. I had no intention to do it.
If joking is in your blood and is part of your nature, speak for yourself.


TAIWAN or

  /       \ __\___
 /-----\  \  \||/
  -----      ----      (sorry for the poor writing 8-) )
  |   |   /   _7
  -----       |-
               J

is the pronunciation translation from both taiwanese and mandarin, right?



yu
From: lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu (david lu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: F16 to Taiwan
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:00:27 GMT
Organization: University of California, Riverside

In article <Bu7KIu.J5K@multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:
>
>Bush is playing game in order to win election. No one knows
>he will fulfill his 'YES' after he wins the election.
>It won't surprise me that if Bush refuse to sell F-16
>to Taiwan in the begining of his next 4 years' presidency.

I won't be surprised if this happens.  I'm also pretty
sure that at least some the Texans are also weary of
Bush's promise.  I doubt it if Bush will get much more
vote out of this announcement.

>If KMT is not so chicken, KMT should paly game too.
>For example, spread rumor that Taiwan is going to
>buy French Fighters instead of Bush's F-16 to make
>Bush looses his face and votes. Next cut a deal

I think making Bush lose face is probably too bold a
move, especially if Bush gets re-elected.  But spreading
some rumors about buying French or Russian might help in
getting a better deal (less $$$ or more technology) from
the US.

>with Clinton and formaly declare to buy F-16 when
>Clinton is the President of USA as a gift(Gen{look} Main{face} Li{gift}).
>Then Taiwan will have a chance to kick Bush's butt
>and have a good relationship with Clinton.

While Clinton is leading in the polls right now,
there's no guarantee that he will win the election.
Besides, Bush is slowly catching up with Clinton.
Throwing yourself at any one candidate right now is
a big gamble.

>If Bush win, we still have French Fighters and we
>still kick Bush's butt.

Unfortunately, Frence hasn't agreed to sell Taiwan
the fighters yet.  How about the Russians?  Can't
Taiwan get a good deal from them?  After all, they
need the money.

			- David

-- 
---==lulu@ucrengr==---  just another overworked graduate student.
David T Lu, Amateur Thinker: lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu, {ucsd, uci}!ucrengr!lulu
"I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle."
					- Arthur Dent, Hitchhiker's
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: a few question about taiwan
Date: 12 Sep 1992 21:43:46 -0500
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep13.012621.23791@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
=
=Hmmm.  So I assume that is the reason that when you see a dissenting opinion,
=you always brand the writer as a KMT agent/CCP agent/Tai2 Gien1.  Great way to
=focus the argument on the argument itself.


Please do not use your imagination or dream. Also don't
drink when you write.

Please show us when did I wrote 'KMT agent', 'CCP agent',
'Tai2 Gien1'.

I hope you were not pointing at me, otherwise you better come
up some proof.

Do not show us 'you think', 'you presume'...
Show us the exact words in the exact sentences.
From: cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Grow Up Please
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:50:13 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor

>Why is the big fuss about losing formal diplomatic ties with South Korea?     
>I thought Taiwanes people were secure enough to deal with this incident  
>more rationally.  Instead, so many netters acted like crying babies.  
>

Sure, lost South Korea may not be a big deal, but we must learn the lesson.
If KMT and Taiwanese still didn't learn their lesson, there will be 
more crying and probably even screaming next time.
What is the lesson ? Give up to compete with CCP for the name of China, go
get our own new name for the country.
20 millions hard working Taiwanese deserve a nice, decent name other than
'China' for their country.

>All major U.S. press reported this event.  The implication to the U.S.  
>seems to be that by establishing diplomatic relation with China, South  
>Korea is more willing to face North Korea squarely, since China has been  
>the only ardent supporter for North Korea, an extremely isolated, yet  
>dangerous and worrisome regime. 
>
>No one noticed the broken heart of poor Taiwan baby.  Sigh.  Such a cold,  
>merciless society.  

People have already accepted that PRC is China, what is the big deal of
making formal diplomacy with PRC ? Why should other countries bear the
burder of ROC's mistake.

Yi-Chieh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.vietnamese