HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cheu@venus.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Trip Report: Southwest Utah
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:47:45 GMT
Reply-To: cheu@venus.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Organization: University of California, Irvine

Zion, Bryce Canyon......

Thanks to Torsten for posting this report.  Hope you can share more
of your experience in Utah and Arizona with us.

Kelvin
From: ecologycntr@igc.apc.org (Ecology Center)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:05:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Oct3.113111.26167@magnus.acs:1206344901:cdp:1449600043:000:95
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ecologycntr    Oct 14 09:05:00 1992


No doubt john meant "Senderista", an epithet for the cult-like Communist Party
of Peru.

Chris
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Backcountry in the Movies
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<1992Oct13.204940.8475@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>
	<15007@auspex-gw.auspex.com> <2ADCF533.26898@news.service.uci.edu>
	<srp.719263408@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:47:08 GMT

How about The Mission?  We rented it before we went to Iguazu Falls.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: tsutomu@drizzle.Stanford.EDU (Tsutomu Shimomura)
Subject: Integral Designs tents
Keywords: gore-tex tents
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 08:15:23 GMT

Does anyone have any experience with the single-wall Gore-Tex tents made
by Integral Designs, Inc., of Calgary, Alberta, Canada?  I'm particularly
interested in their MK series tents (2-3 person, 62-78 oz/1.8-2.2 kg), though
experiences with any of their products would be appreciated.

Please e-mail me any responses; I'll summarize and post the results if
there's enough interest.

---
Tsutomu Shimomura	tsutomu@drizzle.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: uvfowl@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Vicki J. Fowler)
Subject: Re: Tents on the AT?
Summary: shelters adequate
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:00:25 GMT

In article <vcdrrhx.719097887@gsusgi1.gsu.edu>, vcdrrhx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Rich Hunter) writes:
> I am planning a short trip (Springer to Mid-NC) the first part of December
> and would like to know if a tent is necessary.  Are the shelters sufficient
> and convenient enough or would a tent be worth its weight?  I expect to be
> on the AT for about 10 days.

Many people hike the entire AT without a tent. Most of the people I
have met on the AT that are doing this have told me that the shelters
are located about every 15 miles....some closer, some farther. I think
for 10 days, you could do this easily; however a tent would come in
handy in bad weather or if you didn't feel up to hiking a long
distance one day to make it to the next shelter. I suggest that you
buy a map of the portion you intend to walk and see how close together
the shelters are in that area as well as the topography. It sounds like
you might be going through the Smokies, which is as rugged as it
is beautiful, but don't expect to make great speed records.
There are usually springs near each shelter, also, which simplifies
searching for water.
Have fun!
vicki
-- 
"Here's looking at you, kid."
From: rcook@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (r.w.cook)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Tents on the AT?
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:11:28 GMT
Organization: AT&T

From article <vcdrrhx.719097887@gsusgi1.gsu.edu>, by vcdrrhx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Rich Hunter):
> I am planning a short trip (Springer to Mid-NC) the first part of December
> and would like to know if a tent is necessary.  Are the shelters sufficient
> and convenient enough or would a tent be worth its weight?  I expect to be
> on the AT for about 10 days.

The Georgia section of the AT has shelters "within a days walking distance"
of one another.  According to the GA. AT Council, anyway.  I've walked most
of this section and suggest you not depend on that statement.
The first 30 miles or so (Springer to Neels Gap) cover some of the toughest
terrain on the entire AT (so I've been told - I don't have any other data
points).  In December I'd carry a tent.

There probably won't be too much company on the trail that time of year,
but if you're like me you prefer some privacy when you camp;  the shelters
*do* get crowded.

On another note - how do you plan on getting to Springer?  The only vehicle
access is via >20 miles of some pretty bad fire roads.  One option is to
have someone drop you off at Amicalola Falls.  There's a ranger station
there that you should probably register with anyway.  From there you take
the blue-blazed trail to Springer.  (Warning:  this trail is even *more*
difficult than the AT !!)

There are stores at various crossing points along the way.  If you're
concerned about the weight of a tent, plan on buying some of your food
along the way.  Enjoy the trip.  I'l be up there October 24-26 myself!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Richard Cook                       attmail:  attmail!rwcook
AT&T IMS/EUSD                         uucp:  cbnewsg!rcook
Atlanta, GA                          voice:  404-493-5260
   "Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." - Aesop
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: cole@maverick ( Cole Keirsey)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backcountry in the Movies
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:54:05 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

How about "Aguirre, the Wrath of God."  This is a German language film
by Werner Herzog.  The story follows a group of Conquistadors who cross
the Andes and try to raft down the Amazon to the Atlantic.  It was
filmed on location, and the scenery is awesome.  I think the German
title was just "Aguirre."

That old favorite "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" has some good
scenes of the Rockies and the desert Southwest.

"Dersu Usala" by Kirosawa gives a splendid view of the back country in
Northeast Asia.  Like some other films mentioned in this thread, this
one deals with the impact of civilization on wild places an native
peoples.

Maybe E.M. will distill this thread into one of his periodic pearls of
wisdom.

cck

-- 
______________________________________________________________________
C. C. Keirsey                 | "Verbosity leads to unclear,  
US WEST Advanced Technologies |  inarticulate things." 
Boulder, Colorado             |                       -- Dan Quayle
From: psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcountry
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:32:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Oct5.202853.14974@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>Sounds a little like stories I've heard from my father-in-law who
>was with the USGS during WWII.  Locals would see him and his
>assistant in unlikely places and either accuse them of being
>"revenooers" or "German spies".  
[...]
>I guess pre WWII parts of the US were third world by
>todays standards.

	And then, of course, there's Texas. I'm a bit hazy on the 
details, but I think it was sometime this summer that some guy was
doing fieldwork (I'm not sure in what capacity) for the Lower 
Colorado River Authority, an agency responsible for allocating 
water from the Colorado (no, not THAT Colorado River), flood control,
etc.
	Anyway, he was on land which had been leased to someone who
apparently didn't know he had a right to be on, and was promptly 
shot, no questions asked (survived, leg wound I think). So, watch
those private lands...

--Peter
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sherod@newton.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod)
Subject: Re: Bear bells
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 02:10:12 GMT

>In article <1992Oct3.030236.7056@netcom.com> kehoe@netcom.com (Thomas David Kehoe) writes:
>>For the last 15 years I've had a small but loud cowbell
>>hanging from my backpack to warn bears of my presence.
>>...
>>BTW, I've never seen another backpacker with bear bells.

I tape down the little kotter pin rings.

Scott

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Subject: Re: Bears attacking people?
    <1992Oct14.204815.1767@raven.alaska.edu> 
    <1992Oct15.162722.3740@afterlife.ncsc.mil>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 05:24:28 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

mssmith@afterlife.ncsc.mil (M. Scott Smith) writes:

>I certainly wouldn't ever take a gun hiking (or ever buy one, for that

 Forever is a long time. Maybe someday you will find the need to defend your
wife or child, and realize that a firearm is the only true means of equalization
Do I sense an anti-gun sentiment?

>matter); if I was being attacked by a bear, and I sprayed, say, insect
>repellent in its eyes (from an aerosol can), would it run away?  :)

 Yea, after it finished eating your carcass. There is a product on the market
that is very popular now. I have researched it somewhat, and it appears to be
effective. It comes in 1 5% solution for protection against humans. Also, a 
10% solution is offered for bear protection. One thing to consider besides the
concentration of the active ingredient (oleoresin capsicum, i think), is the
type of "stream" the "product" is delivered by. Some shoot a thin stream like
a water pistol, and others spray in a dense fog. I can tell you from a SLIGHT
exposure to the 5%, this stuff is powerful! The fogging type cans need to be
used with caution as the owner might be incapacitated as well.

>How about mace?

 The above mentioned "peper spray" is better. Law enforcement proven.

>Scott
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backcountry in the Movies
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:45:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

OK, I can't stand it anymore (even if it is a silly topic--I mean
almost ANY movie has some backcountry in it somewhere [ok, maybe not
MANHATTEN]), but one of my personal favorites:

THE MAN WHO WOULD BE KING

Absolutely stunning.  See it on a big screen if you can but see it in
any case.

jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
Jim Klavetter
Astronomy
UMD
College Park, MD  20742
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Coyotes (was Re: Wolves)
Date: 7 Oct 92 11:54:15 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: usa

>omar@az.stratus.com writes:
>Huh?  Jogging coyotes?  Only in California :)

>jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu writes:
>Holy shit.  Were they wearing lycra?  Oh no, ... I bet they take
>their human pets with them when they go camping too ...


Yea, the otherday I found a butterfly with a tatoo of Cher on its butt !!

It seems the aminal world has really become humanized.

ARS
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Coyotes (was Re: Wolves)
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:02:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.151445.5056@midway.uchicago.edu> chappell@willy.uchicago.edu (Chappell) writes:
>
>stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>>New Mexico?  California is full of coyotes.  I encounter them jogging in the
>>Stanford and L.A. foothills on a monthly basis.
>
>I didn't know coyotes jogged; I thought they just loped.

Reality check time you guys (and women).   You've been spending too much
time in front of your terminals.  Time to get out to the backcountry.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcountry
Organization: NT/BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 12:32:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.081917.189@leland.Stanford.EDU> Joanne Spetz,
jojo@leland.Stanford.EDU writes:
>>>Hey, this really got me thinking.  From prime-time news shows,
news-paper
>>>articles, jungian group conciousness or whatever, I've got this weird
>>>impression of backcountry marijuana patches, coca plantations, etc...
that
>>>supposedly litter the American backcountry that are defended by
booby-traps,
>>>men with machine-guns, etc...

Recall the Newsweek cover from about four/five years ago:  "NC's biggest
cash crop" showing the new American gothic of paramilitary pot growers. 
Yes, you run the risk of tripping over plantations if you leave the
trails.  Most, however, are grown on private land (usually someone
else's).  If you should find yourself surrounded by tall waving,
obviously carefully planted canabis, you retreat immediately, declaring
loudly "Gee, I just know the trail is around here somewhere."    The only
ones I've ever tripped over were found while in a surveying party on
private land.  We did not "turn a corner" anywhere near there.

The best story:   a pot grower planted a large block of canabis near a
state road, then planted two rows of corn on the outside of the block. 
There was little rain that summer so the corn only grew to three feet. 
The pot, however, thrived, and was topping nine feet when a sheriff
finally noticed it.
JB
From: psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: "Points": the good way to measure time/distance on the trail
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:37:17 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <15826@umd5.umd.edu> jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.200752.1515@src.dec.com> sawicki@src.dec.com (Filip Sawicki) writes:
>>
>[explanation of "points" system:  basically, use time instead of
>distance with some arbitrary rules for terrain]
>>
>>   So, how do you find this system? Any questions/suggestions are welcome.
>
>This splits to two questions:  which is more useful and which is more
>precise.
>
>Obviously. the "points" system (based on time) is a one-to-one function
>of the distance system, so, in a sense, they are equivalent.  The

Not the way I read it. Which takes more work/time, 10 miles along flat
ground, or 5 miles with 5000 feet of elevation gain?  The distance system
says the ten miles is twice as much as the five miles. I'm not sure 
what the points system says, since I'm lazy, but it at least attempts
to take into account the work required to lift 180 pounds of human (or
whatever) up those 5000 feet. Not one-to-one at all.

[stuff deleted ...]

>Additionally, the time/points system is not spatially reversable:  most
>trails will be x hours in one direction and y hours in the other with x
>not equal to y (in general).  In the example above, the Grand Canyon,
>the times x and y will be vastly different.

This, to me, seems like an advantage...

>
>Finally, time will be dependent on many more factors than just
>elevation in some arbitrary way.  

Certainly.

>I'm glad that trails around here are given in distances instead of
>time.  What if you went somewhere and you didn't know the formula?

I think I agree here, too. I'd say the points system probably gives a
better estimate of how much work/time a hike will take. But, at least
this morning (as I said, I'm feeling lazy), I don't feel like learning
another system. I can estimate the extra effort due to elevation gain
by looking at the map, and I may even be more likely to factor in such
things as "I'm feeling lazy" or "I'm really excited about getting over
XXX pass today" than I would be if there was a hard-and-fast formula
which told me that I could get there in 8 hours, period (given my level
of experience, etc).

>jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
>Jim Klavetter

--Peter
From: andyt@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Andy Teetzel)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:20:33 GMT
Subject: Ruby Mts. (Nevada) Trip Report
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
From: marco@microsoft.com (Marc Olson)
Subject: Tramping in New Zealand?
Date: 12 Oct 92 00:06:46 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Keywords: tramping New Zealand

I'm planning a month long trip to New Zealand in February, would
be interested in hearing about trips people would recommend, places
to avoid.  In addition to tramping, we'll also be trying to do some
alpine climbing--if you know of routes our guide books, information
would be appreciated.

Send responses via e-mail to marco@microsoft.com

Thanks!

Marc Olson
From: caulton@oregon.uoregon.edu (Dave Caulton)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Gregory Backpacks
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:56:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Oct13.205623.8030
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services

I have an opportunity to buy a Gregory internal fram backpack, 
cheap.  I'm looking for something to take skiing for overnight
trips.  Any opinions on Gregory?  Are the packs nice?  Does anyone
have any models they recommend for my needs?

Dave Caulton
University of Oregon
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu (raymond thomas pierrehumbert)
Subject: Vote on Baucus Bill
Reply-To: rtp1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 02:13:10 GMT


Does anybody know how the vote in the House went on the Baucus
bill?  (The "clearcut Montana welfare for logging companies
bill")  Presumably it passed, but I'd like to know who
voted for it and who against, so I know who to support in
the coming election.

Does anybody have a record of the Senate vote.  I think the
vote was 72 FOR (!) but I'd like to know WHICH 72.
From: shawn@ut-emx.uucp (Shawn Boyd)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Wolf attacks, HA. (was re: Wolves: ho to cope with ?)
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:03:33 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas

In article <13391@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM writes:
>
>If you want something canine to worry about in the wild, a better
>bet is wild dogs... those raised by humans, but since gone to
>run with others.  They don't have the instinctive fear of humans
>that totally wild wolves do.

 This is an excellent point, and well taken.  I might mention that the 
 usual term for these animals is feral dogs, as opposed to "wild dogs"
 which is generally applied to a communal african canine known for it's
 intelligence and extremely effective hunting techniques.  Feral dogs, 
 like feral hogs have retained some of thier civilized characteristics,
 not the least of which is thier lack of fear of man.  They can often,
 however, recognize a shotgun... they typically will fear that.

 The point is also made that European wolves are more aggressive toward
 man than American wolves.  Sadly, I have no experience with either, so I 
 cannot claim any degree of expertise.  I do have experience with feral
 hogs, and can tell you that if not confronted they are relatively harmless,
 but if pursued can be quite dangerous.  This makes them very interesting
 to hunters, especially bowhunters.  They're wilder cousins, Javelinas, 
 while potentially dangerous (highly communal, aggressive among themselves,
 and armed with four very sharp 2 - 3 inch incisors) are very docile, and
 will only display threat (a VERRRRRY loud jaw snap/clap) when cornered
 or wounded.  I imagine a vague comparison might be made along the same
 lines between wolves (NOT at threat) and feral dogs (often threatening,
 especially to youngsters or occasionally to unarmed adults.)

 Shawn Boyd 
 Austin, Texas
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<SHAFER.92Oct15094500@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 03:31:21 GMT

On Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:45:06 GMT, shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) said:

Mary> On 14 Oct 92 16:05:00 GMT, ecologycntr@igc.apc.org (Ecology Center) said:

C> No doubt john meant "Senderista", an epithet for the cult-like 
C> Communist Party of Peru.

Mary> Hey, I'm bad at geography, but even I know that the Amazon is in
Mary> Brazil.  It's not in Peru or Nicaragua, it's in Brazil.  

OK, I'm wrong.  I was thinking of Chile, not Peru.  (I said I'm bad at
geography.  Andes, Chile, Peru, whatever.  I am positive that Torres 
de Paine is in Chile, though, because I've been there.  Maybe it's
just solipsistic geography--if I haven't seen it, I don't know where
it is.)

Mary> The Sendero
Mary> Luminoso (the members are not called Senderistas) is not in Brazil,
Mary> particularly not in the Amazon basin.

I've still never heard the Sendero Luminoso called Senderistas.  

You know, The Shining Path is a really pretty name.  Too bad it's a
bunch of terrorist thugs.

Mary> Look, he just goofed.  Anyone can do it.  Real men and women admit
Mary> it and get on with their lives.  Let it go.

Wonderful.  A chance to practice what I preach.  Lucky me.  Whoopie.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: amc@mccartney.stortek.com (Alan McCartney(support services))
Subject: Re: Neophyte tent groundsheet question
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:58:39 GMT

Oh hell, seems everyone *else* is giving their opinion, here's mine :-)

I use to use a plastic drop cloth *under* the tent. Then I switched to a
space blanket, then switched to space blanket *inside* the tent.

All of this in the name of saving the tent floor from punctures.

Now I carry no groundsheet and simply place my sleeping pad under the tent.
Non-absorbent and wipes off nicely. My 2-person tent floor is usually
covered by two pads and one pad is sufficient for my one-person tent.

A few "rules" (e.g. no boots, cooking, etc. in the tent) has prevented
most inside damage.


Alan Mc

-------------------------------------------------------------------
-  These aren't even *my* opinions, forget about my employer.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Giardia in the Pacific Northwest
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:29:55 GMT

I spent three weeks in September in Northern California, Oregon, and
IdaHO visiting hot springs.  I always purified drinking water with
at least 1 iodine pill/quart (sometimes 2).  Unfortunately, I still
got giardiasis.  My explanation is that I must have inadvertently
swallowed some water while dipping in the hot springs.  However,
I was conscious of the problem, and tried to keep my head dry.  I
never dunked my head in the water completely.

I don't know of any places in the lower 48 where we can drink
directly from the lakes/rivers.  However, I've spent lots of time in
northern Ontario and never purified my drinking water.

					--Matt Harrington