From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Publicity
Date: 5 Sep 92 02:52:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.42462
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <71934@apple.Apple.COM> mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>
>>You don't get it, do you? Are you completely ignorant of queer related
>>politics?
>
>There is no such thing as 'queer related politics.'  

And there is no such thing as defense related politics or politics of
the poor or pollitics of people of color or ...

In short, there are no special interest groups since there is no such
thing as politics of <insert special interest here>.

Or are you saying that there is nothing espcially interesting about politics
which affects queers?

>                                                     There are politics.
>Plain and simple.  Politics is politics.  I am not ignorant of 
>politics, dear.

No.  As a matter of fact, you understand politics exactly as much as the
politicians in Washington want you to.  Which is to say "not at all".

>                 I could market a politician very nicely, thank you.
>That's what it's all about.  Marketing.  Psst.  Hey buddy, cum 'ere.
>Have I got something for you.  Here ya go!  A politician!  Pretty 
>neat, huh?  What's that?  You don't like this?  No problemo.  See?
>All gone.  Pretty neat, huh?  /Etc/etc.

Ah yes, a born campaign manager.  I am sure that the Bush campaign will
be ringing you up as soon as they find you are free.

Why do you think that 'marketing a politician' is the same as politics?
The former does not encompass the latter.

>>Why don't you come to Oregon this year? Come here before November,
>>mind you. Come work with us to stop Measure 9. Then tell me that "the
>>anti-GLB stuff is a smokescreen".
>
>Should the OCA initiative pass, you will be able to say, "Told ya so."
>Until such time as it passes, I shall continue to live in the delusion
>that the people of Oregon are not the rabid bigots they would have
>to be to actually vote yes for the damn thing.  I shall, in effect,
>have faith in my fellow man.  

You probably don't believe that they turned in over 125K signatures to
get the measure on the ballot.  No.  There are no bigots up here.  You
probably don't believe that buisinesses in the Hawthorne district that
support diversity are getting their windows smashed (no bigots here).
You probably don't believe that a mixed racial lesbian couple has had
(so far) nine crosses burned on their property (no bigots here).  You
probably don't believe that Portland has the fastest growing group from
the White Arian Nation (no bigots here).  It's good to have faith from
500 miles away, especially when the outcome doesn't affect your life.

Get your butt up here, boy, and put your life where your mouth is.

>                              My mother and pretty much her entire
>family live in Oregon, and I *like* my family.  I *like* the 
>suburban (Tigard) straight boys I went to high school with.  Generally,
>I *liked* living in Oregon more than Eagle Rock (Occidental), more
>than Studio City (but it was close), and more than Menlo Park.  I
>am not going to write off Oregon yet.

No one is asking you to *hate* your family or your straight boy friends.
What does this statement have to do with anything?  You have family and
friends here, so Measure 9 won't pass?

>But all that aside, was I talking about Oregon in the first place?  No.
>I was talking about Presidential Politics.  Neither Bush nor Clinton
>are running for public office in Oregon.

Wow!  From the mouths of babes.  Do you believe that the platforms for
national political parties just spring into being of their own volition?
Do you understand the concept of regional testbeds for political ideology?
Apparantly not.  The OCA has been active here for 5 years.  They have
built a solid core of supporters and are influencing politics in other areas
of the country.  They have shown the ability to polarize the electorate
and confuse the issues to their advantage.  In short, they have shown
that they can keep the voter's minds off of national issues with an issue
which is primarily emotional.  One which is a quagmire in which competing
emotional charges and counter charges can lead to a victory for whoever
manages the soundbit best.

>>And it's not just some crazy bunch of loonies on the far right, the
>>OCA. They're getting pandered to by the Republican party. The bigtime
>>players in the Republican Party kissed Mabon's ass hard enough last
>>month that the OCA withdrew their opposition candidate to Packwood.
>>Can you spell concessions?
>
>No finer an example of politics exists.  Do me a favor, I'll do you
>a favor.  I *like* Packwood, but them I just a fucking idiot.  

And these last two sentences are your judge and jury.

>                                                               If,
>however, you consider 'kissing ass' to have some for of real impact,
>your sex life is in need of improvement.  

My, you really are good at debate, aren't you.  Lettered in school,
did we?

>                                          But I am not here to 
>breath fire in your general direction.

No.  You are here to insult and then claim that dirty tactics should
not be used.  You really *are* a republican, aren't you.

>                                        What concrete benefits did
>the OCA get out of any deal not to oppose Packwood?  Nothing.  Zilch.
>A lot of talk.  A lot of hot air.  Buchanon is the OCA counterpart
>on the national scene.  He got to speak at the convention.  Big
>Fucking Deal.  What do you think his impact will be on policy, 
>asssuming Bush is re-elected?

I think that the religious right (possibly under the 'leadership' of
young Dan'l Quayle) will have better access to the Oval Office based
on political contributions and getting out the vote.  You really don't
understand the first thing about politics, do you?

>>And this is what was going on at the RNC. The Republican Party thought
>>that "family values" was an issue that the electorate cared about,
>>cared about enough that they could get votes. They get this impression
>>from groups like the CFV and the OCA. When the Republicans embrace the
>>OCA agenda, the OCA is legitimized.
>
>Nelson, they did not.  They absolutely did not.  "Family Values" is 
>exactly what I said it was:  an attempt to divert attention from
>economic difficulties.  The more press given to Family Values, the
>less press given to Bush's lack of an economic plan.  It is a hard,
>cynical reality.

Ah yes, "Didn't mean it.  Couldn't mean it.  Family values.  Just a
catch phrase.  Didn't mean it.  We said it.  Got money.  Lots of money.
Got votes too.  But ain't gonna do it.  Ain't gonna do what we promised."
Take a reality check.

>I feel *no* guilt, darling.  Being on the winning side is nothing to
>feel guilty over.  I voted for Reagan.  I'll say it again:  I voted
>for *Reagan*  What's more, I'd have voted for him *again*

I'm so happy for you.  I assume that you will be coming up to Oregon
in the event Measure 9 passes.  Perhaps to work for the state government.
(We're talking 'ifs' here Matt.  Go with it.  Take a stand and don't
hide.)  That way, you can be on the winning side.  Let me know what
part of town you are interested in, we'll start looking for property
for you.

>Don't I get it?  The Republicans are our *enemies*  How sweetly 
>poetic you can wax at times.  Isn't it nice, knowing who *our*
>enemies are?

Yes, it is nice know who or what may or may not be your enemy.  Clearly,
the republican party (which is only defined by its party platform,
btw -- remember, you know all about this political stuff), is to a
very large degree a queer unfriendly organization *at* *this* *time*.
Political expediency could force a change in that position if it proves
to be a position on which candidates cannot be elected.

>              Such a simple world.

I'm sure he chose to make it simple just for you.  Nelson is very
considerate that way.

>                     But seriously, the Republican Party is not
>Pat Buchanon and it's not Pat Robertson.  You are mistaking the
>vocal fringe for the center.  These peope *have* to be accomodated
>when it comes to political games.  Jesse Jackson *had* to be 
>accomodated in past Democratic campaigns.  Their ultimate influence
>is minor.  It's fucking minor, and when all is said and done, 
>they're still on the fringe.

To some degree you are probably right when you use the word 'fringe'.
You are talking about the average self-identifying republican.
However, when you look at the hard core money people, you are clearly
out of step with what is going on inside of the political machine.  As
a former republican activist [12 years worth], I can relate that what
the people want is not what they get.  They get something which looks
appealing and can sweet talk at election time.  You seem to feel that
special interest groups have no influence.  I respectfully suggest that
you have someone look at whatever medications you are taking.  You are
taking too much of the wrong thing.

>There is only one political party in the United States, and there
>are a whole bunch of screaming demagogues.  It's pretty much that
>simple, and you do not really know who your enemies are.

Thank you for telling us how naive Nelson was for simplifying things
and how right you are for your gross simplification.

Actually, most of us realize that it is the Melmon's and the like who
are the real enemies due to their rationalization and "don't rock the
boat" stances which allow politics as usual.  It saddens me that people
are just shaking their heads and walking away from people like you as
you interpret that to be a vote of confidence.

You are no better than the political lackeys who plague the tickets.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.

Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc