HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dana@rlathena.athena.lkg.dec.com (Dana Mackonis)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: why hybrids??????
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:01:20 GMT
Reply-To: dana@rlathena.athena.lkg.dec.com (Dana Mackonis)
Distribution: alt
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Wow... this is my first look into this conference!

Is this the general "mood" of the noters?????? 

Maybe I'll give it a few more days and see if this conference is worth
my time.  I can catch this on the street any old day, I was interested
in learning more about wolves -- not vulgarity.


dana
From: v094lrtr@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (MENION LEAH)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: why hybrids??????
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:23:00 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <400960@athena.lkg.dec.com>, dana@rlathena.athena.lkg.dec.com (Dana Mackonis) writes...
> 
>Wow... this is my first look into this conference!
> 
>Is this the general "mood" of the noters?????? 
> 
>Maybe I'll give it a few more days and see if this conference is worth
>my time.  I can catch this on the street any old day, I was interested
>in learning more about wolves -- not vulgarity.
> 
> 
>dana

dana,
there have been some harsh feelings between myself, stormwind and ms. otto.
i hope that this can be remedied soon so we can get back to business. these
two believe that only topics of which they are concerned should be discussed
on this newsgroup, but i disagree. hunting and ignorance is what caused they
present problem facing wolves, and i believe these topics to be open for
discussion. a public apology of types from me
was hammered by my two agitators, and
i responded quite angrily. i am sorry to those who had to read this, and
perhaps i should have mailed it directly to the offenders. ms. otto complains
of wasting bandwidth on articles on hunting. 1) dont your flames waste just
as much bandwidth, and 2) i havent seen discussion of anything else as of late.
so mellow out, and lets all just try to be friendly debators.

-brent
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: fsjes3@ix.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Jacob E Schuetze)
Subject: Just a wolf poem
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:03:35 GMT

I know that this goes in a poetry base, but hoped it might be appreciated  
here too:

 It stands motionless in the snow
 Its gaze solid and unwavering
 Its eyes show no cunning, none of the sly imprecations of its cousins
 They show the cold of the arctic, of logic and of wisdom
 They are the window to the beast's soul, showing his nature:
 a little darkness, a little light
 a little wisdom, a little foolishness
 a little love, a little hate
 a little happiness, a little sorrow
 and a deep, glowing strength, honest, solid
 He turns and pads gracefully, silently through the snow
 His brothers and sisters can be heard raising their sonorous voices
 To the glory of the full moon on a cold arctic night


Please send any replies on the poem to fsjes3@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu
If you don't want any more poetry on this base ever again, post here and  
I'll see it when I read the news. Thanks
      Jacob Schuetze at University of Alaska, Fairbanks
From: pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Opinions of Wolves may be Improving.
Date: 4 Oct 92 15:13:58 CDT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

Lately it seems that in most of the catalogs that I receive from
nature groups and societies have an abundance of wolf Tee-shirts,
rugs, paintings, etc.  Also, as I am sure most of you have seen, it
seems more and more people are wearing wolf shirts and stuff (which
would go along with the catalogs).

I think that people, for a large part, are accepting wolves more
readily and dropping ideas from the old fairy tales.  Let's just hope
that more people can could to there senses about wolves AND all the
other things in life that are causing conflicts.

Just some thoughts.

Chris
pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: jegm@cody.esd.sgi.com (Jim Morris)
Subject: Re: Wolf preservation in NE mass.
Reply-To: jegm@esd.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 17:42:37 GMT

In article <Bv99FC.5Ko@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v094lrtr@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (MENION LEAH) writes:
|> I was wondering if anyone has been to the wolf preservation in ne mass.
>....> 
|> Now to my point...
|> I appreciate what this man is doing to perpetuate and preserve a pure
|> species of wolves. but, how happy can these wolves be? they are tame
|> to the owner of the land and his family, so isnt he just creating a
|> group of domestic pets? i for one do not like zoos, and believe that
> ....

Wolves are very willing to accept Homo Sapiens into the pack, I don't think
you could consider a wolf pack as domestic or as pets. In fact I would think
that the wolves consider the family as part of their pack. It is this
willingness of wolves to accept humans that allowed our ancestors to create
Canis Familiaris (domestic dog) in the first place.

As for being happy, well that is somethiong I can only guess at!

-- 
Jim Morris, Email: jegm@esd.sgi.com  Voice: (415) 390-5136
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: premeau@cae.wisc.edu (Rodger Edward Premeau)
Subject: Pictures of wolves
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:22:25 CDT
Keywords: Wolves and Gifs.

     If anyone has any .gif or.jpg pictures of wolves could they please mail
them to me at my address or post them to alt.binaries.pictures.misc.

     I'm a collector of thes files and I would appreciate any donations you
could make to my collection. 

      Thanks in Advance.   Rodger

Premeau@cae.wisc.edu  
In wilderness is the Preservaion of the world-Therou
From: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: why hybrids??????
Date: 28 Sep 92 08:34:18 EST
Reply-To: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

On 09-27-92 MENION LEAH wrote:

MLOk, thats it. i dont care if you look up fucking words before
MLposting them.
                     (deletion of invective)
ML     2) insulted my intelligence. i dont know where you think
MLthat you get this right, but i finally have had enough of
MLit... so piss of stormwind, your hybrid's mother isnt the only
MLbitch around here!!!

IMHO, Stormwind's post was within the bounds of acceptable
discourse but you show you have lost it. With your tantrum, you
abrogate all rights to pretend to criticize with any validity. If
you can only say it with ad hominem arguments and swears, then
you haven't said anything that deserves to be said. Furthermore,
we don't need this kind of stuff here. Invite stormwind into
alt.flames, why don't you. I post this just as a reader and
participant, not with any net.authority. Oh yes, and in case you
haven't yet gotten the message, I'm not looking forward to any
invective from your bruised ego in response to this. Make it
cogent, or don't make it.

                   |
...eliot          -*-                  RIME: ->CHANNEL [R/O okay]
                   |               Internet: eliot.gelwan@channel1.com

---
EZ 1.39 #178 [in Brookline MA  7:30 am, Monday 09/28/92]
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: ellen@boi.hp.com (Ellen Osinski)
Subject: Wolves in Yellowstone?
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:32:58 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4


We just returned from vacationing in Yellowstone.  For anyone who is
familiar with the Park, we were camping in Slough Creek campground.  It is
a rustic campground in the northeast corner of the park with only 29 campsites
approximately 5 miles from the Montana border.

Early one cold, rainy, snowy morning about 7 AM we heard howling.  We
surmised it was coyotes, because supposedly there are no wolves in Yellowstone.
(That's what the reintroduction is all about, right?)
But we hear coyotes at our home ALL THE TIME and this howling was not like
ANY coyotes we have ever heard.  It was the most piercing, mournful (it is very
hard to describe) howling I have ever heard.  Our dog even began howling 
and he NEVER howls, especially with the coyotes. 

I have studied wolves (never in person, but from other studies, etc) and
listened to many tapes of vocalizations and the howling we heard in Yellowstone
really sounded like wolf vocalizations to me.

Is it possible?  Have wolves been heard / sighted in that area?  If so, then
are wolves re-populating Yellowstone on their own and not waiting for
human reintroduction?



                 /\
                /**\    /\
               /****\  /**\
              /***   \/    \
      /\     /              \
     /**\  /                 \
    /**  \/     Ellen   - at the Double O
   /            Matthew - spouse, best friend, partner
  /             Jasmine - ruler of the roost           (female cockatiel)
 /              Cody    - mouse huntress extraordinair (female pound kitty)
/               Blue    - electric puppy on springs    (male German Shorthaired
                                  \                     Pointer pound puppy)
                Amber   - trusty steed                 (Quarter Horse mare)
                Warrior - go anywhere steed            (Appaloosa gelding)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: amazon@sgi.com (Stormwind)
Subject: Re: why hybrids??????
Organization: X Industries, Heavy Weapons R&D
Distribution: alt
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:53:01 GMT

(Dana Mackonis) writes:
>Wow... this is my first look into this conference!
>
>Is this the general "mood" of the noters?????? 

generally not, no.  if your site
archives far enough back, you may
even see that during the first month
of its creation the newsgroup was
very friendly, very informative, and
did some constructive re-building of
the rec.pets.dogs FAQ.  however, of
late it seems that most of the good
contributors have been occupied with
other tasks and have been unable to 
dedicate much time to the group.

>Maybe I'll give it a few more days and see if this conference is worth
>my time.  I can catch this on the street any old day, I was interested
>in learning more about wolves -- not vulgarity.

sadly, as with any group, it only 
takes one or two people to spoil it
for the rest.  you might want to find
out if your newsreader possess killfile
capabilities, which will allow you to
place particular posters and/or threads
into a killfile so you can skip the 
stuff you don't like and keep up on 
everything else.

what specifically were you interested 
in learning about wolves?

			stormwind

			hell's amazon
From: v094lrtr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (MENION LEAH)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: What we can do
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:04:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

This is primarily a response to shawns post. you made some very good
points, and i must admit that you have cooled my fire a bit on the
topic of hunters. i still belive that it is morally wrong, but that
is an issue of personal choice. i asked for a reason why people hunt,
and you gave me some answers. i was not going to respond, seeing as i
was only looking for info, but you really flamed the hell out of me
shawn. some personal requests have been aimed at me to stop flaming
people, and i have. you should have a little more respect also.

you say that hunting is an environmentally helpful institution. i have
to agree with one thing. hunting of overpopulated areas has become a
necessary evil. but have you ever stopped to think why these areas are
overpopulated? human expansion. it is our fault. it just bothers me
that the only solution is to kill them off as sport. we dont go into
china or etiopia with shotguns, do we? if you really want to help out
overpopulated species, work to find an alternative to murder.

as for what i do, seeing as you did ask. i am trying o become a vegetarian.
i have completely eliminated red meat from my diet, and do not eat pork or
fish. after thanksgiving i am going to go 'cold turkey', and stop eating
poultry also. you could not understand the effect of stopping the consumption
of meat on the human body. i am experiencing wait loss, drowsiness and
increased susceptibility to sickness (ie flu's and cold's). also, a
vegetarian alternative to any meal is generally twice as expensive. i am
hopeful that i will succeed in my efforts. i do not consume any fried fast
food unless the restaraunt states that it was cooked in veggie oil. i
cant afford leather items so that is not a problem. i own a leather
jacket, but that was a gift from a couple years back.

as for organizations, i am new to the buffalo area. if anyone has any
information on groups in this area, please let me know.

i am from a rural part of new york, and lived on a horse farm for most
of my teenage life. i love hiking and camping, but have never felt
inclined to shoot any of the beautiful animals i have encountered.

as for the future, shawn, i am studying to become a doctor. i will
never get into, or be able to afford med school, so that is just
pie in the sky. this being the case, i am going to become an
environmental biologist, specializing in endangered species. i think
you can guess which animal.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

has anyone sited any wolves in the northwestern new york, south eastern
canada area. or maybe at least some preservations.

long live Fenwyr,

-brent
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: griffon@iastate.edu (Tamber Kelsain)
Subject: Re: Wolf preservation in NE mass.
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 23:36:48 GMT

In article <Bv99FC.5Ko@acsu.buffalo.edu> v094lrtr@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (MENION LEAH) writes:
>I was wondering if anyone has been to the wolf preservation in ne mass.
>i cant remember the town its in, but i did read an article on it. the
>owner of the land breeds a pure line of wolves, and keeps them in a
>large (like 100 acres) fenced in plot of land. people can go see the

I really don't think 100 acres is all that large for a pack of wolves...
how many wolves are in this enclosed area? Do they get fed directly by the
owner or are they expected to find food of their own? Or in combination,
does the owner provide live game for them?

I do think it is a good thing that people do get to see the wolves...
it helps to lessen the natural fear many people have of these wild animals.

>wolves for free. the article stated that the wolves seemed to be in
>excellent condition, and the best time to see them is feeding time.
>
>Now to my point...
>I appreciate what this man is doing to perpetuate and preserve a pure
>species of wolves. but, how happy can these wolves be? they are tame

I'm curious.. what's the average territorial size for a wolf? ( I may love 'em 
to death, but I'll never claim to know a whole lot about them )

>to the owner of the land and his family, so isnt he just creating a
>group of domestic pets? i for one do not like zoos, and believe that
>no animal that is supposedly wild should be kept in cages for the
>enjoyment of humans. bringing our children to such a place just starts

What is this guy's goal in keeping these wolves? Is it for his personal
enjoyment? or is it to help keep a pure population alive? or is it for some
other reason?
I would like some more information on this, if you could find out more.
I know nothing of it, and until I do, I don't know what to think about
this caged protection.

>them off seeing that humans in general treat animals as an inferior

This is an interesting point. I would wonder if maybe the children would see
that we are doing a kind thing and trying to protect these creatures from 
hostile environments. *shrug*

>species. i do realize that some zoos deal with sick and injured
>animals, but they are a huge minority.

I think one good thing that zoos provide is education. Zoos have lessened many
of the misconceptions uninformed people have about the wild creatures they 
don't normally get to see or be close to. A school can't even start to get
close to the quality of animal education that some zoos can provide.

>-brent

Sorry about all the questions, I am very interested in knowing more about this
place.  Thank you in advance.

			Will Stoltenberg
				email to wolves@iastate.edu
-- 
     Will Stoltenberg	  |"The Bible is not my book and Christianity is not my
 Ames, Iowa (515) 294-1701| religion. I could never give assent to the long 
    "Tamber Kelsain"	  | complicated statements of Christian dogma."
   griffon@iastate.edu	  |			- Abraham Lincoln
From: wania@aurora ( development)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Wolves in Ontario (Canada)
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:45:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

Hi netters, 
This is my first posting on this news group.
My interest in wolves is much recent than most
of you.

It seems that there are no population
problems with wolves in Ontario. I have
heard them a few times while camping in a Prov.
park close by. Also, Algonquin Prov. Park and the
surrounding areas supposedly have quite few wolf
packs. I don't know the numbers and that
is why I am posting this article.

I read in the local newspaper that there
is open season for wolves, meaning you can
shoot, kill a wolf any time of the year and
there are no limits. I called up the Ministry of
Natural Resources to confirm this and they said that
it is true. The World Wild Life federation has urged the
Ontario Govt. to monitor the killings and the population
around the Algonquin Area. Like I mentioned earlier,
my knowledge is limited as far as wolves are concerned,
so can someone comment on this???
BTW I think the wolf species are timber wolves.

 
Xerxes Wania


-- 
Xerxes Wania              | Usenet: wania@icpd.mitel.com 
MITEL Corporation         |         
360 Legget Drive, Kanata, | "Transatlantic call from Mr. Floyd 
Ontario, Canada K2K 1X3.  | to Mrs. Floyd are we reaching..."
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: amazon@sgi.com (Stormwind)
Subject: Re: Wolves in Ontario (Canada)
Organization: X Industries, Heavy Weapons R&D
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:42:28 GMT

pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>wania@aurora ( development) writes:
>> I read in the local newspaper that there
>> is open season for wolves, meaning you can
>> shoot, kill a wolf any time of the year and
>> there are no limits. I called up the Ministry of
>> Natural Resources to confirm this and they said that
>> it is true. The World Wild Life federation has urged the
>> Ontario Govt. to monitor the killings and the population
>> around the Algonquin Area. Like I mentioned earlier,
>> my knowledge is limited as far as wolves are concerned,
>> so can someone comment on this???
>
>WHAT!!!!!!!!!  I'm going to have a real problem with this one, as I am
>sure many others will too.  I thought that the Endangered Species Act
>was a world wide (or at least a North American) thing.  Maybe
>Stormwind, Ginny or some other the others have some idea, but I am
>confused and a little more than upset that this could be allowed.

even under global protection, those
nations that don't subscribe to the
charter generally don't obey it.  for
quite a while the japanese engaged in
whaling despite open criticism from the
rest of the world, and despite the endangered
status of several species of whales.  it
took a lot of pressure, publicity, and as
i remember some financial pressure to 
get the whaling nations to back off on
whaling.

it will probably take the same effort to
obtain protection for wolves in ontario.
first, there needs to be a study done of
the population and killings in that area;
then there needs to be a study done of 
how many wolves of that type are in existance
in north america, and what fraction of that
population lives in ontario.  the results 
need to be made public, and it should be
pointed out at that time that wolves are
endangered and are covered by whatever
protection agreements that are in existance.

perhaps the various wolf preservation parks,
the national wildlife federation, etc. etc.
would be able to move this into high gear.
i'm not sure if wolves would be as "popular"
a cause as whales (whales being generally 
considered to be more "harmless" and "pretty"
than wolves, which have a long and checkered
past dating clear back to "little red riding
hood").

			stormwind

			hell's amazon
From: v094lrtr@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (MENION LEAH)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Wolf preservation in NE mass.
Date: 27 Sep 92 21:09:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I was wondering if anyone has been to the wolf preservation in ne mass.
i cant remember the town its in, but i did read an article on it. the
owner of the land breeds a pure line of wolves, and keeps them in a
large (like 100 acres) fenced in plot of land. people can go see the
wolves for free. the article stated that the wolves seemed to be in
excellent condition, and the best time to see them is feeding time.

Now to my point...
I appreciate what this man is doing to perpetuate and preserve a pure
species of wolves. but, how happy can these wolves be? they are tame
to the owner of the land and his family, so isnt he just creating a
group of domestic pets? i for one do not like zoos, and believe that
no animal that is supposedly wild should be kept in cages for the
enjoyment of humans. bringing our children to such a place just starts
them off seeing that humans in general treat animals as an inferior
species. i do realize that some zoos deal with sick and injured
animals, but they are a huge minority.

-brent
From: amazon@sgi.com (Stormwind)
Subject: Re: Alaskan Wolf Dog
Organization: X Industries, Heavy Weapons R&D
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:31:26 GMT

kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>When I lived in Alaska, I had the opportunety to own a dog that was half wolf
>and half Alaskan Husky.  Beautiful Dog.  Very loving, very caring, and very 
>noisy.

ha!  yes, triss liked to bark a lot
too.  she was very vocal, and after
a while we were able to distinguish
tones to her barks that keyed us in 
to what she was trying to convey.

>Her name was Goldie Summer.  Best dog I ever had.  She did like to howl at the
>moon, and she did like to dig holes in the ground, but she was very protective
>of my children and myself.

was she spayed, by any chance?  triss
dug holes all OVER our yard until she
was spayed, at which point she stopped.
we often wondered if it wasn't connected
to the denning instinct that wolves have.

			stormwind

			hell's amazon
From: vkunch@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Virginia P Kunch)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Wolf preservation in NE mass.
Date: 29 Sep 1992 13:42:26 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

Okay, let's try this again....

Okay, this is in response to an earlier posting about "tame" wolves not
being "fierce": (don't worry -- just a quickie)

Having been involved in several "tame" wolf attacks, I can assure you
that hand-raising a wolf doesn't remove its wild instincts, most
notably the instinct to achieve dominance over its social companions 
(including humans, if they've been hand-raised) and the predatory
instinct, often evoked when vulnerability has been perceived.  They
are still quite fierce...

The process of domestication, frequently confused with taming, required
thousands of years to get Canis familiaris from Canis lupus.  Although
it may seem like nit picking, the distinction between the terms is
important because of their respective implications.

-ginny kunch
vkunch@csd4.csd.uwm.edu