HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike@fuego.viewlogic.com (Mike Ethier)
Subject: Log Home info request.
Originator: mike@fuego
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:39:47 GMT



I'm considering a log home in the near future.
I visited a distributor of Lincoln Logs. They are located in
Chestertown, N.Y. and in California. They use Eastern White Pine
for their wood, and I like a few of their house plans. I talked to a
distributor of Lincoln Logs and I'm very interested in
these houses, but I need to become more knowledgeable about log
homes in general.

They claimed they are the only log house company that is certified
by some National organization (forgot the name), for water-tightness.
They said that they have sold and have been involved with about
150 different log homes in the Mass area. 

He (distributor) told me that it would cost (roughly):

 (3 x Kit Price)  = Total cost if I did nothing (contractor does it).
 (2.5 x Kit Price)= Total cost if I did some work (like finishing).
 (2 x Kit Price)  = Total cost if I did all work.

That would be a "finished" house with well, septic, appliances, ect...
Move in condition.

Also, I was told building the house takes 4-6 weeks by professionals.
He said their log homes really don't settle. Can this be true, or do
all log homes settle ? He said they now recommend some new product to
apply to the wood (can't remember the name) that it is excellent and
is good for a long time. He said it is expensive -> $30 a gallon.

Their kit prices range from $20,000 up to $71,000. Is that a lot ?
Lincoln Logs has a 100 year limited warranty and uses:
  * Minimum 12 Course Exterior Wall - 8" high x 6" Thick Double T&G,
    Graded logs
  * Owens-Corning Class A Fire Rated Fiberglass Roof Shingles (25 year).
  * Benchmark Doors
  * HURD Windows with Heat Mirror
  * HURD Swinging Patio Doors with Heat Mirror
  * Vetter Sliding Patio Doors  w/HiPro 4 insulated glass
  * Velux skylights

Any comments on the above products ? 

I was wondering if any of you have considered a log home, and what you
found or if you could recommend any log home companies. What questions
should I be asking these companies ? What about heating systems
(ductwork), and things like central vacuum systems ? Due to the
construction methods of log homes, maybe there are features that
cannot be incorporated, when compared to conventional stick built
homes.

Thanks for your time.
-Mike
From: bartnik@acsu.buffalo.edu (David Bartnik)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Painting a weathered barn (again)
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:50:59 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

I think this has been discussed here within the past few months,
but I don't recall what was mentioned so...

I have an old timber frame barn that hasn't seen a coat of paint for a
couple of decades and needs some fast before its shell starts to rot.
The south and west sides are very weatherbeaten and many of the boards
will have to be replaced, but the the other 2 sides are quite sound.
There is no paint on the structure except for a glimpse of it here and
there.  Can I prime and paint over this very exposed wood (especially
the really porous stuff) or do I have to reside it?  I hate to do this
because I think I'll have a hard time replacing the 20' long 18" wide
boards. ;^)  I don't want to use a clear preservative, just the typical
barn red paint.

Thanks in advance for the help.


Dave Bartnik
 
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: spikes@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Bill Spikes)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:14:10 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA

You might find info in the back of Fish & Stream. Magazines like this have
want ads selling the fish. Trouts, bass, perch, bluegills, etc.

Also, you might get ahold of somebody at a feed company. I know there
are things like "Purina Trout Chow". Almost fell over laughing the first time
I saw this. They might even have booklets on "How to Build the Perfect
Trout Farm" or something to that effect.

How 'bout your local dept. of fish & game? They may even be real nice and
tell you of someone in your area that has already made all the mista....
uh, done it already. They will also have *SUGGESTIONS* on what is allowed
to grow in the state with regards to game fish. ie: No abalone, sharks,
lamprey, etc.

Good luck, my wife kinda nixed the idea of turning the 60'x30' backyard
into a trout stream and bass pond. Donno why. Would be cheaper than a
boat.


Happy Fishin',

Bill
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: russell@ldgo.columbia.edu (russell such)
Subject: Premier Fence
Keywords: address
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:58:45 GMT

	The people at Premier are always quite
helpful.
	Premier
	Box 89
	Washington, Ia 52353
	800-282-6631

Russell Such
Newsgroups: misc.rural,alt.activism,sci.med
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Re: Fencing questions
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:39:10 GMT

In article <JCH.92Oct12093553@mitchell.cit.cornell.edu>, Jeffrey C Honig <jch@nr-tech.cit.cornell.edu> writes:
>
>Does anyone have a Premier Fencing catalog?  I hear they have a very
>informative catalog.

Yes, I have it, and it is very good.  They emphasize electric fencing, though
they do have high tensile fencing.  Someone ought to post the address.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)           For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
Workstation Support                Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
From: waltervj@coos.dartmouth.edu (Walter V. Jeffries)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: proposed increase in inheritance tax
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:52:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Oct14.215202.9930
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH


>Now that it appears likely that we will have a liberal government again, we
>can dispense with the foolishness of self-worth, self-sufficiency, and being
>productive.  Happy days are here again for the self-appointed `intellectual
>elite'.

Excellent sarcasim and satire!  Very well put!  Time to vote against
the pols and try a businessman at the helm.  Vote Perot!
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 16 Oct 1992 03:04:11 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


To Dean Nelson:  your original posting asked about the use of
earthworms which are thriving on the rabbit manure on your
farm. 
I wrote a reply concerning some aspects of the fish pond
system and the tilapia fish in particular.
Since you do not have pigs, then the mention of pig manure
should not be as specific advice, only that this particular
fish is extremely hardy.
Several postings on this thread have advised caution in these
areas.
Let's go back to the original, then.  A small farm with various
possibilities of using byproducts in an efficient manner.
This particular subject has intrigued me for several years.
Much literature is written on farming for a profit, looking
for the right crop and raising it for the highest production,
essentially for an external market.
I am much more interested in how =well= say a family of four
can feed itself on a small piece of land, say 5 acres.
There are books and studies in this area, especially for
efficient vegetable production.  
But beyond that, for such a small land area, for meat eaters
(such as myself),  how efficient can a system be designed for
the smaller livestock, i.e. poultry, rabbits, etc.?
For example, could certain insects be bred specifically for
feed for one of these (and let's include a fish pond too)?
There is an insect food newsletter from a university back
east but I do not have the name handy.
The earthworms are close, then, to this idea.  What would
be the most efficient way to use them for food production
on a small homestead?
I think much more research should be done in this area.
As for the fish pond, a bass pond or some other fish may
be more useful for your location.
However, tilapia being a  tasty and easy to grow fish and
also often grown organically so that a higher price can be
had, is a fast growing fish industry, although it has been
slow to catch on in the U.S.
A few refs:
     The dome as nursery and breeding pool for tilapia.
    R. Zweig   New Alchemy Institute  1980
    Summary of fish culture techniques in solar algae ponds.
   R. Zweig, Wolfe J. et al   New Alchemy Institute  1980
   Tilapia Culture:  1979-1990  Quick Biblio service USDA
    Beltsville MD    March 1991

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
From: jdaves@triton.unm.edu (Jonathan Daves-Brody)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Slow drains (was Re: Rural Life?)
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:06:51 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <mwFosB4w164w@coldbox.cojones.com> system@coldbox.cojones.com (Bryan Lockwood) writes:
>>Maybe y'all can help me. We've had this house for almost a year and have
>>a problem. It has a septic tank and a well. The problem is a slow drain.
>>The basement laundry sink, into which the washer drains, drains too slow
>>causing periodic floods. My wife tried "Drano"type products before I had
>>a chance to stop her but it did not fix the problem. I have tried to use
>>a "snake" too. Thought we had it licked, but it flooded again yesterday.
>>What can I use that won't harm the septic tank but will fix it for good?
>>Or can I even fix it for good? Any suggestions will be appreciated!
>
If it is an old septic system and there's trees growing around there, it
could be tree vines.  Older systems used clay tile pipes, both into the tank
and into the drain field.  If these have crumbled or been infiltrated by
roots you might have a major replacement on the way. . .
jdb
From: london@calypso.uucp (Larry London)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Thistles
Date: 7 Oct 92 21:01:54 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <1992Oct7.140702.24326@cbfsb.cb.att.com> eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth) writes:
>>Well, mow it down before it goes to seed, plow it under and reseed the field
>>with some durable pasture grass.

>Why the personal attack?  
You have my apology; I didn't mean to be offensive. It was just my usual
kneejerk reaction to what I perceived to be cavalier and unnecessary use of
environment-harming toxic chemicals. I have ample reason for my bad attitude: 
my neighbor has in years past carelessly sprayed 2-4-D and Roundup over
much of his 3 acre field adjoining my organic market gardens, where I work
till late in the day. The fumes from those weedkillers, esp. the 2-4-D,
severely aggravated and was possibly the cause of my present asthmatic
condition (a real nuisance!). He has since cut way back on his spraying; if
he hadn't my well water might have been seriously threatened.
I was hoping to offer effective alternate solutions to your (everybody's)
weed problems. I know there are ways to get rid of those thistles without
spraying, I do it every year on my farm. I deal with much worse pests,
such as Bermuda grass and Johnson grass, false croton, pigweed, crabgrass
and annual ryegrass. I deal with them effectively and permanently, in a
relatively short time frame using tillage and cover cropping.  
I'd be glad to elaborate on solutions to various weed problems that I
think would be effective if you are interested.

Best of luck.

Lawrence
From: waltervj@coos.dartmouth.edu (Walter V. Jeffries)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Rural Life?
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:33:12 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH


RE:"The best help would be if about a million or so people
moved in around here and turned it into a city though"

AAAHHH!!!! (and Walter runs screaming back up onto his mountain top
where there are _no_ people for miles...)

Okay, I've got my breath back...  Now, to answer your questions...

Compost Pile:
You can be as simple or as complex as you want.  At the simplest,
just dump vegitable and yard scraps in a pile adding dirt so that 
you get a multi-layer sandwich of waste and soil.  Nature will do
the rest and next year you will probably have nice potting soil.
If you want to get fancy you can make a fence around it to keep
it straight, turn it over (mix it) every few days, and becareful
about the ratios of ingredients.  I take the simple approach and
it works fine.  The complex method produces results faster but
takes a lot more work.  I am in no rush...

Well water & chemicals from corn field:
I would be distinctly uncomfortable with this if the farmer is using
any pesticides or herbacides.  I also wouln't want to breath the air.
Get the water tested. Most states will do it for a fee.  Check your
yellow pages.

Septic:
Add a quart of yogurt (unpasturized!) every couple of months and
avoid putting any chemicals (ie. draino, darkroom chemicals, etc)
down the system.  The septic system is a living creature made up
of billions of little bacteria that eat what you don't.  They are
your friends and you need them.  If you treat them right you may
never need to have the septic system pumped or rebuilt.

Hunters:
Post your property with "No-Hunting" signs.  If you only have a 
small patch then you can't do much for George as he will roam but
you can do what you can do.  Even if you are posted you will still
need to run off bozos from time to time who think "No-Hunting"
means they are supposted to come over and hunt right there...  Be
firm with them and call the police (state police around here as
we have no town police).  Write down their license plate numbers
or get names and report them.  They get the message eventually.
Some of them will be okay with a friendly, "please" and others
will need more.

Waiting for Repair:
The best solution is to learn to do things yourself.  You can and
probably will in time.  It's a lot easier than it looks but you
have got to learn the background first...  Comes with time.

RE:"There are no city laws here."
Thank god!  That would mean there were a lot of people about...

Best wishes and enjoy your stay in the country, may it become
a life time of joy.

-Walter
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: jdaves@triton.unm.edu (Jonathan Daves-Brody)
Subject: Re: Rural Life?
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 19:23:09 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

--stuff deleted--
>
>>I never realized how much I depended on City Services.  One time the well
>>stopped running, and to my surprise no city services people came rushing out
>>to help us.  We had to wait until the next day when the well repair person
>>came.
>
>That's the way rural life is.  You can try to fight it, but that'll only
>frustrate you and those subjected to your fight.  The alternative is to accept
>it as a challenge and an opportunity to gain a level of independence you've
>never imagined before.
>-- 
When we were building our house, the water line from the well to the house remained
uncovered for some time until we had time to deal with it.  A friend from town came
out and asked when "they" were going to cover it up, and seemed surprised when I told
her that "they" was "us". . .
From: peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org (Michael Peirce)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Thistles, and Weeds in General
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:07:14 GMT
Reply-To: peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org (Michael Peirce)
Organization: Peirce Software
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <1992Oct9.190317.26147@nas.nasa.gov> (misc.rural), ktk@capybara.nas.nasa.gov (Katy T. Kislitzin) writes:
> I discovered, quite by accident, that thistles are the national flower of 
> Scotland.

Also, a number of birds love thistle seeds.  


Thistles aren't all bad.

--  Michael Peirce      --   peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org
--  Peirce Software     --   Suite 301, 719 Hibiscus Place
--                      --   San Jose, California USA 95117
--  Makers of...        --   voice: (408) 244-6554 fax: (408) 244-6882
--            SMOOTHIE  --   AppleLink: peirce & America Online: AFC Peirce
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon...psychohistorian)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Painting a weathered barn (again)
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:11:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: chaos.bill.719187070
Organization: University of Minnesota

In <Bw6KKz.Fvy@acsu.buffalo.edu> bartnik@acsu.buffalo.edu (David Bartnik) writes:

>There is no paint on the structure except for a glimpse of it here and
>there.  Can I prime and paint over this very exposed wood (especially
>the really porous stuff) or do I have to reside it?  I hate to do this
>because I think I'll have a hard time replacing the 20' long 18" wide
>boards. ;^)  I don't want to use a clear preservative, just the typical
>barn red paint.

well you can hydroblast it (to loosen the decayed wood surface off)
or you can seal it then paint it, or you can just paint it. be advised 
if it's in as poor (surface seal) of condition as you describe, it'll
take a bit of paint. kinda like painting a sponge. you could use
thicker paint (it won't get drawn into the wood as bad (but then
it woodn't ;-) seal as well.
multiple coats of a thin paint will soak in farther and should last longer.

bill pociengel
--
llbi locgeenpi " i'm a little confused right now"
From: bkorb@starbase.Convergent.Com (Bruce Korb)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: More weed woes
Keywords: thistles, briars, blackberries, weeds, POISON OAK
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:56:19 GMT
Reply-To: bkorb@convergent.com
Distribution: ca
Organization: Unisys Open Systems Group, San Jose

Thistles, briars and blackberries are all scratchy.
Weeds are a hassle.  All of these can in some way be
dealt with without poisons, if you have patience.
Just what do you do with POISON OAK, however?
That stuff *really* doesn't want to die, and I can't
touch the stuff!!!

-- 
   Bruce Korb  (408) 456-5507
   Convergent Technologies, aka Unisys, aka Sperry Univac, aka Burroughs
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney)
Subject: Re: Thistles
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:13:58 GMT

I said to myself in the beginning, "Darrin, don't get involved in this."
But, I did, so I'm back.

In response to Frank and Larry, your points are nice and all, IF WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT CULTIVATED FIELDS.  We're not.  We're talking about a horse
pasture.

Obviously, a mower isn't an option in a bean field, because you'd destroy
the wanted plants as well as the unwanted plants.  In that case, I
actually do condone the use of a pipewick system to kill the taller
weeds.  But, keep in mind that organic growers are succeeding this without
using the herbicide, although the labor is a bit higher.

In a horse pasture, mowing is an option.  Like I said in the beginning,
it is quite simply ludicrous to drive around a field spraying a herbicide
when you can drive around the field (note: probably the same distance)
dragging a sickle bar, bush hog, or whatever.  Note the key phrase "when
you can."  You CAN'T do this in a bean field, so it doesn't apply.  Yes, you
may have to do this a little more often, but you don't need to worry about
harming your animals or yourself or your neighbors or your children.  If
you're too (I would say stupid, but I don't want a flame war in
misc.rural) uncaring about yourself to do this, at least care about
your neighbors.

As for Frank's point of "herbicides put food on our table", consider this:
Before the use of pesticides and herbicides, farmers lost about 1/3 of
the crop to pests.  They still do.  (Read 50 ways that you can save the
earth, and no, I'm not a liberal or anything resembling one.)

And, as for Sue, your extension agent needs to learn a little about
alternate methods.  Herbicides and insecticides create as many problems
as they superficially solve.  I'm not saying they're all bad (see above),
but they are rarely good.

	Darrin
-- 

mdchaney@iubacs mdchaney@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu mdchaney@rose.ucs.indiana.edu

"This is a .signature."
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: mvm@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (michael.v.murphy)
Subject: Building in a flood plain...
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:38:26 GMT

     I recently purchased some land that is in Indiana's one hundred year 
flood plane. The county in which the land is located has approved the building
of a residence on the sight with some restrictions (no basement). The land was
so cheap for this area ($9000 for 5 acres), that I bought it with little
investigation into the consequences of building in a flood plain. In starting
to look into building a home there, I thought that I might tap into the net 
wisdom on the subject. Any advice/suggestions/horror stories on the subject
would be apprecitated (I will need a well/sistern and septic system).

    Also, has anyone out there purchased/built one of the Sear's steel garages
that are advertised in their cataloges? How do they conpare with pole barns
 or plywood structures?

							Many Thanks,
							Mike Murphy
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: knightf@infonode.ingr.com (Frank Knight)
Subject: Re: Thistles
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:20:36 GMT

Well thankyou Darrin, for setting everone straight.  Now if you'd
only not shout so much ;-), well must go now, off to spray
some more Round-Up (tm) to knock out this rain forest growing
im my pasture.

Frank
From: simard@vax.sonoma.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Rural Life?
Date: 8 Oct 92 01:12:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: vax.1992Oct8.091220.1
Organization: Sonoma State University

In article <7945@vtserf.cc.vt.edu>, cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill) writes:
> The absolute worst thing to do is to use those hunks of chemical you
> throw in the commode tank that keep the water clean.  They continuously
> emit bacteria-killing chemicals that can cause your septic system to
> stop working completely.
> 
Also no grease, particularly heavy animal fats.  Not very good for 
the compost pile either.
From: mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: re: proposed increase in inheritance tax
Date: 11 Oct 92 20:42:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: Ikkoku-K.MS-C.718836170.1103527590.mrc
Organization: University of Washington
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0

I don't see what you are all upset about with the change in inheritance tax.
After all, it is the responsibility of those of us who work for a living to
support the unproductive.  After all, it's all our fault for living in a rural
area, presuming to own land, living in a house, and being self-sufficient.
The only politically correct way to live is in a one-room apartment, using
public transportation, and living on the government's dole.  It's our national
shame that those who refuse to work are living out in the streets.

Now that it appears likely that we will have a liberal government again, we
can dispense with the foolishness of self-worth, self-sufficiency, and being
productive.  Happy days are here again for the self-appointed `intellectual
elite'.
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon...psychohistorian)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:44:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: chaos.bill.719185473
Organization: University of Minnesota

In <1binjtINN9jg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:


>The tilapia species in particular are well suited to raising

i do believe that this particular species is *not* wanted in 
this particular state by the local natural resources folks.
i think it had something to do with their tendancy to take over.
so you might want to verify if any species you want are allowed 
in your state. tilapia will also live quite well in a ditch
(if the information generated by the local d.n.r. is true)

bill pociengel
--
llbi locgeenpi " i'm a little confused right now"
Newsgroups: misc.rural