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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 12:54:19 -0400
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "(Rick Adams)" <adamsr@AIS.ORG>
Subject:      Re: more on MR texts (computer info)
              11, 92 09:32:29 pm

	I'm not sure how you would define a graduate text as compared to an
undergrad one in the area of statistics, since most of the institutions I'm
familiar with use the same texts (and often the same courses) for both grad
and undergrad credit - but if you're simply looking for an excellent
statistics text oriented toward computer applications, try:

Kvanli, A. (1988). _Statistics:_A_computer_integrated_approach_.
	St. Paul, MN: West Publishing Co.

	The book is an exceptionally thorough introductory statistics text
with excellent coverage of essentially all topics through Multiple Linear
Regression. What makes it unique is its computer focus. To cite from the
Preface:

	"The text fully integrates three popular statistical packages:
MINITAB, SAS and SPSS. Both mainframe and microcomputer packages are
illustrated and discussed. The featured package throughout all of the
chapter examples is MINITAB, since these commands are simple English
statements and are illustrative of computer capabilities whether or not use
the MINITAB package in your course instruction. Corresponding SAS and SPSS
descriptions (mainframe and microcomputer versions) are contained at the
ends of chapters - a feature unique to this text. I have fully integrated
these packages throughout the text making it possible for you to include
computer usage as a part of your course without having to spend a great deal
of time explaining the mechanics of a particular package. An introduction to
each of these packages is presented at the end of the text."

	Since I use this text when I (occasionally) teach a class in
statistics (and since I'm in the process of converting all the routines into
Systat cmd programs - my prefered statistical software [perhaps because I
own the program?]) I'm somewhat biased toward this work - but it =is= an
excellently written text, and the only one I've found which adequately
integrates the computer into the statistical learning process.

	Hope this helps.

--

                       -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=-
            The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised
      over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to
      prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is
      not a sufficient warrant.                         John Stuart Mill
                       -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=-
         Rick Adams -=*=- adamsr@ais.org -=*=- adamsr@norwich.bitnet
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:56:35 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "(Margaret Joppa)" <joppa@PSYCH.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: to neuropsycgradders

Hi Ray,
Margaret here at Purdue.  Jennifer and I will be rooming together in Anaheim.
I think it is a great idea for all psycgradders attending the neuroscience
meeting to get together.  Question is, where and when?  I will consult my
travel info. I do know that there is a student room where we can post notes
for each other.  Maybe we should arrange something that way.  Anyway, we
should get to know each other's names.
Also, Jennifer, I am aghast that your cognitive faculty member said neuro-
science is irrelevant!  What a jerk.  He doesn't have a clue.  In my
opinion, psychology is going to become more and more a subject of biology,
particularly neurology, and more specifically, cellular neurology.  I don't
know if that's good or bad...
Margaret
Joppa@psyc.purdue.edu
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Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 10:25:48 MDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         jdbecker@ACS.UCALGARY.CA
Subject:      Re: Eric's query

Eric, we record from the Dentate Gyrus.

The method of administration of pharmacological agents depends on
the drug and whether we want local or general effects. For
example, Detomidine (an alpha2 adrenergic agonist) crosses the
BBB and thus we can administer it systemically. We could however
infuse it via cannula if we were interested in local effects.
6-OHDA (a catecholiminergic neurotoxin) on the other hand does not
cross the BBB and thus must be administered via cannula or
intraventricularly. DSP-4 (a specific noradrenergic neurotoxin)
on the other hand readily crosses the BBB and thus can be
administered systemically (it could however also be applied
locally via cannula).

Thanks for your interest, I hope I answers your questions!

Jason Becker (Behavioral Neuroscience Research Group, U of Calgary)
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:49:00 MDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         jdbecker@ACS.UCALGARY.CA
Subject:      re * : about suicide

If memory serves me, lemmings commit suicide when their numbers
become too large by running off cliffs or somethibnng.

About your state of mind - TALK TO SOMEBODY THAT CAN HELP YOU!
That is, talk to a psychologist, counsellor, priest, friend, your
parents, a sibling, etc. An electronic, amnonymous media edia is
probably not the best place to find help.

In the meantime perhaps you can take comfort in this paraphrase
of Tolstoy:

One must love life ieven in ,times of great suffering , because
life is all!
From: KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Who are you? (Psychology and/or Physiology)
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:16:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
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My advise for anyone who could be classified as either--stick
with Physiology.  There's more funding opportunities there.
--Kathy Morgan
From: STOTZDK@DUVM.BITNET (David K. Stotz)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Psych and Neurosc. are Fundamentally connected
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:24:12 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
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     For all of us who find ourselves in a dilemma about whether to con-
sider neuroscience a part of psychology, and in turn to consider our-
selves psychologists because we study neuroscience, I submit the fol-
lowing logical argument:

     1. Psychology is the study of behavior.
     2. Behavior is the result of brain function.
     3. Brain function is the result of neural activity and organ-
        ization.
     4. Neuroscience is the study of neural activity and organiza-
        tion (along with application of the principles derived from
        this study).

     Therefore: Psychology = Neuroscience.

     Ok, so this is maybe too simple, but the point is that psych-
ology and neuroscience overlap. Psychology, by studying behavior, at
any level, is ultimately trying to explain how the brain works. Those
who choose not to talk in terms of neurons and EPSP's, but in terms of
psychodynamics instead, are merely addressing a different aspect of
of the total problem. My guess is that the proffessor who said a cog-
nitive psychologist should have nothing to do with neuroscience may
not understand what neuroscience is. In fact, neuroscience, a highly
interdisciplinary field, draws a tremendous amount from cognitive
psychology, as well as from neuropsychology, computer science, math,
and all the various fields which have applications for what neuro-
science has to offer. So it is entirely appropriate for a psycholo-
gist to study neuroscience and for a neuroscientist to study psych-
ology. What we call ourselves need not be determined exclusively by
where we went to school, rather, what we do should have at least
equal say.

                              --Dave Stotz at Drexel
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Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:31:37 CDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Mike Babyak <HOPE@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: to neuropsycgradders
              15 Oct 1992 17:56:35 EST from <joppa@PSYCH.PURDUE.EDU>

On Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:56:35 EST Margaret Joppa said:
>Also, Jennifer, I am aghast that your cognitive faculty member said neuro-
>science is irrelevant!  What a jerk.  He doesn't have a clue.  In my
>opinion, psychology is going to become more and more a subject of biology,
>particularly neurology, and more specifically, cellular neurology.  I don't
>know if that's good or bad...

I agree that the person was wrong.  But I think his/her response is
a reflection of the parochialism that develops when disciplines
and subdisciplines break away into their own little corners.  I much
prefer the unificationist movement in psychology, where neuroscientists,
humanists, cognitive scientists, clinicians, yes even philosophers,
(and many more) share their work -- the integration of the disciplines can
be very exciting and rewarding.  It's harder work but worth the effort.
That psychology is becoming more biological is a given, as techniques
improve, and as we watch funding trends.  But my fear is that if
neuroscientists sequester themselves away, pluralism of explanation
will die away, and that makes for less rich understanding, and a
poorer psychology.

MIKE BABYAK UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS         *THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE HOME*
HOPE@UKANVM
From: carlson@yottzumm.tis.llnl.gov (John Carlson)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: functional "madness"
Date: 8 Oct 92 05:53:03 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

In article <11702.9210071604@olib> C.M.Walker@CEN.EX.AC.UK writes:
>
>	This goes back to what I was saying yesterday about MPD being
>functional and didn't this functionality also apply to many other mental
>disorders (so-called)?
>	Mike,
>	    Yes, of course I've read Laing and Szasz and altho' I
>disagree with much of Szasz' ideology and think that Laing was "slightly
>mad" himself (!), on the whole I agree with their general premises. I
>also subscribe to a certain Foucaultian school of thinking about it all.

I am not a psych grad.  I am, however, diagnosed with sub-chronic schizophrenia
(paranoid).  It is certainly possible that my disorder was caused
by the stresses of life (among other things).  Even though I've had some
interesting experiences and thoughts, I view the whole experience rather
negatively.

In describing myself in the acute phase, I prefer the word "disturbed".  I
was disturbed by thoughts that rise unsolicited in my brain.  I was
disturbed by actions I took based on those thoughts.  I strove for calm.
Delusions and hallucinations did not help calm me.  I was not out of control
because I made concious choices to do things and believe ideas.  However, I
was easily manipulated by thoughts and by other people.  I was paranoid, I
thought the world was coming to an end, I thought I was a robot, a vacuum
cleaner, a tree.  I tried to meditate while driving and ended up in a ditch.

Unlike dreams, I remember most (if not all) of what happened to me.  That's
why I am glad to take medication!

>	What I was hoping to elicit was a discussion of this point. Or
>is it too passe in the nineties? Do clinical psychologists still think
>that anyone espousing this p.o.v. is a raving lefty nutter, or is it a
>respected question remaining unsolved (and largely unanswered)? I'm
>trying to be deliberately provocative if anyone out there is interested
>in chatting about this....?

I went to hour-long weekly sessions for 6 months or so, and got NOTHING
out of them.  The psychiatrist gave me few hints at all about how to
deal with life or my illness.  Mostly he just sat there quietly while
I tried to thing of something to say.  I wouldn't say that I got any
insight from him.  Most of the information I have garnered comes from
books.  I now see a psychiatrist every 6wks to 2mns for 1/2 hour.

Admittedly, I have a non-standard lifestyle, but there are people I
know with a standard lifestyle and they have schizophrenia/psychosis too!

Most books I have seen about schizophrenia describe how do deal with
the person with schizophrenia.  Are there any available with tips for
the person with the problem?  I have many behaviors that I'd like
to change...should I take the standard approach, or are things different
because I am schizo?

I have an advantage over those who have never been psychotic.  I've
been there before, so I know what it's like.

By the way, my doctor says I'm not crazy.

John Carlson
carlson@yottzumm.tis.llnl.gov
From: 12SHARDY@GALLUA.BITNET (Was mich nicht umbringt,
              macht mich starker)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Who are you? (Psychology and/or Physiology)
Date: 14 Oct 92 08:21:53 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
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I'll stand up and be counted as well!

        I fall into the psychology group but as a school psychologist.  I
know that there are at least a few more of us out here in vax land 'cuz I
know some of my classmates are on this list--although they tend to be
silent.

Steve
Gallaudet University
12SHARDY@GALLAUA.BITNET
From: FRESCO@UNC.BITNET (David M. Fresco)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: AIDS, Stress, Immune and the NL CHAMPION BRAVES !!!!
Date: 15 Oct 92 04:13:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Greetings,
Before I make a statement on Kenn's post, indulge me in a little Brave's
banter after an amazing 2 out, bottom of the 9th comeback win!  Wow!!
Probably the most rivoting game I've ever watched!!  Join me in an
exquisitely non-PC tomahawk chop!!!
As for HIV and stress, I'm working on a study here at UNC using a stress
rating system based on the work of Brown and Harris to measure the
effect of life stress on HIV+/- gay males' T-cell counts.  While not a
central interest of this study's PI, I'm interested in seeing how a
personality variable such as attributional style mediates life stress in
this population.  Kenn (et al), does anyone know of work already
examining this relationship?
Contently chopped out,
David Fresco@UNC
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 00:04:59 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Matthew Simpson" <054340@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Subject:      relative effectiveness, behaviorism, and personality
              9 Oct 1992 07:09:56 EST from <rxo868@CSCGPO.ANU.EDU.AU>

>
>What if the client wants to change their personality?  Or something more
>than just a particular behaviour.

This is a good example of how behaviorism got a bad wrap.  Behaviorism
is not a technique that seeks to achieve some sum total by addressing
only one behavior at a time.  Behaviorism is a way of viewing the
person.  When you say "personality," I, as a behaviorist, say
"habit patterns."

Seldom does a client walk into the therapists office and say,
"I want to change my personality."  Personality is a therapeutic
construct (perhaps a cultural construct, depending) that is
utilized by the therapist as a way to understand and address
complex behavior and habit patterns (from the behaviorists'
perspective).  All therapists view their clients in ways that
come from the therapist.  Our views do not come from the client.

>What if they wnat to get at what's eating
>them, irrespective of how that manifests itself in behaviour?
>
When the therapist looks for underlying causes of symptoms which
become manifested in various forms, the medical model is kicking in.
Look at the language, "...what's eating them."  This almost sounds
organic.  I know.  It is just a metaphor.  However, it is the
metaphor of the virus or the parasite that stems from the medical
model.  This is not bad, I think.  The metaphor is alive in this
culture and provides an intricate thought structure.  Please note that
the medical model may not be useful to some therapists who wish to
accomplish entirely different things in their psychotherapy.

>Just as a matter of interest, I don't subscribe to any particular theory of
>or practice of therapy.  I just see lots of limitations in the behaviour
>modification approach.

I appreciate the interest and the conversation.  I used to think that
the medical model was incredibly limited.  Now I understand that the
concept of "limit" or utility is relative to =what=it=is= that the
person wished to accomplish.  A hammer is useless if you want to
row a boat.  It is useful if you want to build a shelf.  The carpenter
looks at the oar and considers it limited.  It is in the eye of the
beholder.  Scissors cut paper.  Paper covers rock.  Rock breaks scissors.

O======================================================================O
 | _  l  _  * Matthew Simpson          * BITNET:                      |
 |  \_l_/   * School of Psychology     * 054340@uottawa.bitnet        |
 |    l     * 145 Jean Jacques Lussier * INTERNET:                    |
 |    l     * Ottawa, Ontario K1N 8P5  * 054340@acadvm1.uottawa.ca    |
O======================================================================O
From: gerri@WATSON.IBM.COM (Gerri Oppedisano (8-863-7225))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Hello!
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:42:22 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Hi Susan! I am in the same position as you (psychgrad wannabe) AND am also
interested in the combination of cross-cultural and clinical studies! (Maybe
we should work together some day!).. Anyway, if anyone has replied to your
question of programs with this combination, please let me know. Thanks a lot
and I wish you a lot of luck in applying to schools. Personally, I am terrified
I'll be rejected from every place I apply! (My background is computer science)

Take Care..
g
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:00:03 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Pierre Mercier <NITCH@ACADVM1.UOTTAWA.CA>
Subject:      Re: Beer and t-tests

On Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:39:32 EDT Matthew Simpson said:
>An interesting story re: t-tests...
>
>O======================================================================O
> | _  l  _  * Matthew Simpson          * BITNET:                      |
> |  \_l_/   * School of Psychology     * 054340@uottawa.bitnet        |
> |    l     * 145 Jean Jacques Lussier * INTERNET:                    |
> |    l     * Ottawa, Ontario K1N 8P5  * 054340@acadvm1.uottawa.ca    |
>O======================================================================O
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Speaking of beer reminds me of a story that I tell undergrads about
>Student's t-test.  I know some of the story, and am certain that it is
>true, but I wonder if anyone can tell me more.
>The t-test test was invented in the quest for a better beer, namely,
>Guinness Stout.  Wm Gossett, (aka Student) worked as a researcher for
>Guinness and was posed with the problem of evaluating crop yields
>and the effect of different variables like rainfall, etc.  The data
>points were plots of land, however, and there were not that many.
>Fisher's z statistic of course only worked for large sample sizes,
>and Gossett didn't have enough fields to get up to N=30 or so for the
>normal distribution to be invoked.  SO he figured out the distribution
>of the probability curve at the various sample sizes, hence the t-test.
>
>The thing worked fine, but Gossett could not publish the paper under his
>name because Guinness thought that sales would be hurt if the public knew
>that they had scientists working for them.  So he used the name Student
>for most of his career.
>
>If anyone knows more of the details or has any knowledge of any part of this
>being wrong, let me know. I did get it from a legitimate source, a book
>of biographies of great statisticians.
>
>Of course those of us who are Guinness devotees surely owe Gossett
>a prayer of gratitude for his efforts.
>
>MIKE BABYAK UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS         *THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE HOME*
>HOPE@UKANVM
----------------------------------------------------
I cannot add details to the story but I can confirm that Gavin Kennedy
tells the same in his "Invitation to Statistics", Basil Blackwell, 1983.
However, Kennedy does not cite his source.
Interestingly though, he begins the story by stating that Gosset's
use of the pseudonym Student indictaed: "... a modesty that is rare
among those who have stalked successfully at the frontiers of
knowledge."
Given the commercial motivations related to Gosset's work with
the Guinness brewery, I can hardly call the the pseudonym use
"modesty"!
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 09:48:36 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "(Margaret Joppa)" <joppa@PSYCH.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: answer to "Who are you?"

Shame on you! You left out biological or physiological psychology in your field
 list.  Yes, our numbers are small but our research is as important as any other
field.  As I am new to this listserver group, I must have been left out of
 somsample.  I would like to see some discussion of the biology of behavior in
 the ffuture.Is anyone out there interested, or am I the only one interested in
 the
brain and hormones and their relationship to behavior?  Well at least let me
know if there are any other neuroscience students out there.  I am getting
frustrated reading all this clinical/councelling stuff.
Aside from my ranting, I would like to know if anyone has read The Beauty Myth,
by Naomi Wolf.  I have gotten about a third of the way through and it is
 something I would like to discuss.  Anyone?
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:53:15 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Tim Tumlin <UFTRT@NERVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: MPD and Therapy
              9 Oct 1992 08:09:56 -0400 from <rxo868@CSCGPO.ANU.EDU.AU>

  Remo,
  Right on. Instead of the Medical Model, let's not have the McDonald's
Model -- where the patients belly up to the therapeutic counter and
order up two Big Macs, large fries and medium Diet Coke, extra ketchup
please.  Psychotherapists are not short-order cooks, even though it would
be nice if that were all we had to do to feel like we were doing our jobs.
  Consider the difference between a tradesman and a professional guided by
ethics concerning the client's overall best interests; the tradesman does a
specific job, such as plaster a wall on the orders of the customer, while
the professional, such as a licensed architect, is bound to consider the
welfare of the client.  You don't drop into the docs' offices to order up
some blood tests.  Also, even with a medical doctor you establish a
relationship, hopefully, that will lead to better care.
Tim
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