From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: "vicious, sniping, mean-spirited, and arrogant" (was Re: Why is PAD...)
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:22:25 GMT

In article <20J9VB11w165w@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca> panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:

>...I find this discouraging.  First of all, I deny that any of my 
>comments (hasty or otherwise) are mean-spirited or ignorant.  

That was "arrogant," not "ignorant."  And I suspect that you probably were
not one of those sampled, Elizabeth; I think a quick dip into this group would
be enough to send most weak-egoed pros screaming for the "Q" key long before
they found your postings, or Moriarty's, or, candidly but with blushes, mine.

There is (as I have remarked in private e-mail to others) a largish yahoo
contingent on r.a.c.  I'm not naming names, nor am I thinking of people who
will probably think I'm thinking of them.  I think.  The sad fact is that I
hit the "k" key a lot reading RAC, partly because some of the topics don't
interest me, but more because I'm frustrated with the level of discourse.

So I probably miss even more of the "good posts" through my "k" key than I
do through the weekend scroll factor.

Grumble.

Yes, I would say that a majority of the posts on this group are vicious,
sniping, mean-spirited, and/or arrogant.


>Secondly, 
>we're here to speak our mind.  If it's stupid, enlighten us.  If we're 
>rude, complain to the rude individual, not to the amassed group!  I find 
>the level of etiquette here to be adequate.  

Frankly, I have to disagree with you here.  While RAC is nowhere near as bad
as one of the *.politics groups I dropped a long time ago, it remains a haven
for a particular class of arrogant asshole who think that what *they* like is
*good* and everything else is *bad*; and the equally arrogant class who believe
that there *are* no objective standards of quality to which a funnybook can be
held.  The truth, as usual, is somewhere between:  there *are* some objective
standards, but there's a great deal of _de_gustibus_ in there too.  It's
ridiculous to put down the X-books for not being WATCHMEN; they're not trying
to be.  It makes a great deal of sense to put them down if they aren't doing
what they do well.  ("My title is X-MEN.  I'm the best at what I do.  But what
I do isn't WATCHMEN.")

This is a mighty high and narrow wire to walk, and I'm not surprised that most
of us don't make it.  Hell, I fall off occasionally and get some *really*
nasty bruises. :*)

But those who don't even perceive the wire are -- as a rule -- nasty, brutish,
and, unfortunately, long-winded.

Sigh.


>Thirdly, don't our comments 
>reflect what comes through in letters to the editor and comments the 
>writers/artists/etc. get at conventions?

Hell, *NO!*!*!

People at conventions, people who write to the loccol, know that their words 
will be read by the people who they're discussing.  People who write for RAC
don't make that assumption, unless they're writing about PAD [who checks in
here purt regular] or Harlan Ellison [who has his well-known spy among us].

One of the things I used to admire about Timbo Maroney was that he *did* write
about PAD exactly the same way he wrote about writers who weren't online.  I
didn't agree with a lot of what he said, but that's not the point.

The point _is_ that people perform a sort of self-censorship, whether in
content or merely in tone, when they think the subject is likely to hear/read
what they say/write.  With the above-noted exception-and-a-half, RAC is more
like backfence gossip on a grand scale than it is like formal loccols or
convention babble.


		When you're stuffing yourself at the Christmas parties,
		don't be surprised when I tell you to take a running jump.
		You're missing the point I'm sure does not need making:
		the Christmas spirit is not what you drink.
			--Ian Anderson

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc