HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Tokerev Ammo
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:21:20 GMT


If you're not having any luck finding the Chinese ammo, expected in
November, try looking for the Interarms-imported Soviet surplus.
Sarco used to have it, and may still. Paragon may as well. I take
it by your willingness to use corrosive ammo that you don't care
to pay for new Fiocchi and such.

Navy Arms also has Sellier & Bellot 7.63mm Mauser. This of course
will fit, but I don't know if it will cycle the action.

There is also quite a bit of Czech ammo in the country. DO NOT use
it in your Tokarev, as it is substantially hotter than standard
7.62mm Tokarev ball. 

As an aside, the Soviet ammo seems to be tailored to SMGs, and
produces truly impressive fireballs when fired from a pistol.

An alternative is to fork over $35-40 for a 9mm barrel. That's all
you need to convert. My Tok tends to jam on round #3 from each
magazine, but otherwise digests 9mm just fine.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: .308 Pistol
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:23:35 GMT

Along the lines of the .308 pistol question - forgive me if it
was answered already.

If I understand correctly, one cannot take a barrelled action or an
action that was at one time a rifle (ie: military Mauser actions) and
make a pistol.

What if one buys a new action, such as the Mini Mark X action, which
was never barrelled?  Can one make a pistol out of it?

Rob
From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock adoption
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:02:39 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:
# 
# 	Has the Glock been adopted by any large organization, police-force or
# military?

I think the Austrian army uses them and they are the biggest seller in
the U.S. police market. Miami, Detroit and Washington D.C. use them as
I recall.

(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock trigger pull
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:21:35 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

I was just at a gun store, and I took a look at a Glock 22. This was
the first time I handled a Glock, and I was a little supprised on
two counts, when I dry fired it:

5 lbs. seemed like almost no force at all. This must be subjective,
beacuse it felt much lighter than single action trigger pulls that I
_know_ were less than 5 lbs. I guess this has to do with _expecting_
a heavier pull...

Second, the distance also supprised me: A few people have posted that
Glocks had a long trigger pull. I had assumed they were saying long
compared to a double action (I was expecting something like the length
on a P85 in double action, which I find to be uncomfortably long.)
Instead the pull wasn't all that long (longer, I guess, than a normal
single action, but that doesn't say alot...)

I'm either missing something important, or I'd have to say it isn't
a great police/self-defence carry gun. It seems like a great gun
for target shooting or for military purposes (were safety is less
of a factor): I'm thinking of buying one, despite my preference
for revolvers. By the way, the price (new) was a bit under $500.
How reasonable is this (I seem to recall Glock prices bouncing up
and down a bit, and I'm not sure where they settled...) and could
I expect a similar price for a -17 or -19?

                                              Frank Crary
                                              CU Boulder
From: palm!ain@netcom.com (Ain McKendrick)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Wear on 92FS barrel
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:38:59 GMT
Organization: Palm Computing, Inc.


A question for Beretta 92 owners:

   I recently purchased a blued 92FS.  After putting a couple hundred rounds
through it, I have started to notice some wear on the barrel just aft of the 
front sight (where the slide passes over the barrel).  The wear spot is about
1/8th of an inch in length, but it has worn through the blueing.  The slide 
appears to function smoothly and it has performed flawlessly so far, but
I'm concerned whether this is a normal condition or not?

Thanks in advance,,

- Ain
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Citizenship ?
Date: 5 Oct 92 02:19:47 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In article <9210040101.AA07846@flubber.cs.UMD.EDU> wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf) writes:
#In article <1992Oct3.164424.26942@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
##In article <1992Oct2.221840.27024@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> wb@mtqua.att.com (Werner Baumgartner) writes:
###Is being a Citizen of the USA a prerequisite to being permitted to legally
###own or purchase firearms ? What standing does a legal alien on permanent
###resident status have in this regard ? Are these Federal issues or local,
###State, municipal issues ?
###
##Werner,
##  As with all other issues in a federal republic there are both Federal
##and local legal issues. I can't answer questions about state and local 
##laws in your area. My reading of US Federal law (I am not a Lawyer) tells
##me that if one is a legal resident alien in the US, he will fall under
##the same regulations as a citizen. Non-resident aliens may purchase a
##firearm with a leter from their embassy. The letter must state the
##type of firearm he may purchase.
#
#I've never heard the letter requirement. I used to work for a gun shop
#part-time a few years back and the only requirements was that you not 
#be an illegal alien and that you had identification with an in-state 
#address. This may be a local requirement or a way to purchase without
#showing that you live within a particular state.

This reference is from the Code as of '77, so if it has changed
recently I appologize:

27 CFR Part 178 - Commerce in Firearms and Ammunition
 Subpart B - Definitions
  Section 178.11 Meaning of terms
   State of residence. The State in which a individual regularly resides,
   or maintains his home, or if such person is on active duty as a 
   member of the United States Armed Forces, the State in which his
   permanent duty station is located:
    Provided, That an alien who is legally in the United States shall
    be considered to be a resident of the State in which (a) he is
    residing and has so resided for a period of at least 90 days prior
    the date of sale or delivery of a firearm or ammunition, or (b)
    his embassy or consulate is located if the principal officer of
    such embassy or consulate issues a written statement to such 
    alien authorizing his acquisition of a firearm or ammunition.
    Temporary sojourn in a State does not make the State of temporary
    sojourn the State of residence.

As I read this (and I am not a Lawyer) is that a legal resident alien
after 90 days can legally purchase a firearm. A visitor needs a letter
from his embassy or  consulate. I have spoken with sporting goods
stores in New  Orleans that are familiar with the "letter" procedure
and they confirm that this  is how it  is done. This is a rather
arcane procedure and many dealers are not at all familiar with 
how it works. In fact the whole subject of sales to aliens is
outside most dealers experience.
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Baretta 92
Date: 26 Sep 92 15:38:48 GMT

In <1992Sep24.025529.23529@ncsu.edu> edhresko@eos.ncsu.edu (ERIC DAVID HRESKO) writes:
#In article <9209230444.aa04369@s.s.ms.uky.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
##I just read where the Army had adopted the Sig Sauer P228 as the new "compact"
##model pistol. They should have picked the P226 the first time as well.

#	Yes they should have, but they felt that while the SIG was the
# "technicaly superior" pistol, for economic reasons, they chose the Beretta
# instead.  Wait, thats, thats, why, thats the first time the Pentagon
# has done ANYTHING to save money!!!!!!! :-)

[Eric, figure out what a carriage return is, okay?]

As I recall (I think it was Ed that had the whole story) "economic reasons"
didn't have anything to do with the price, indeed the SIGs were priced
lower than the Berettas.  In this case, "economic reasons" meant where
Beretta promised to locate their manufacturing facility.

(Is a "Baretta 92" an Italian combat hair clip?)

-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
From: kkrh@troi.cc.rochester.edu (K. Karcich)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Handgun Scopes
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:57:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: galileo.1992Oct2.115710.21450
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <9210011748.AA10696@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:

#I will be acquiring a .44 Magnum revolver in the near future that
#I intend to use for deer hunting.

#What scope would you recommend?  The last scope I had was on a
#.44 Magnum Contender, but it self-destructed after a few hot loads.
#Are today's scopes built to take more punishment?

#Rob

Rob,

I have a Burris Scout Scope on a T-C 45-70. The scope is doing a lot better
than my hand was after I played around with some 500gr cast bullet loads. Usually I stick with 300gr Hornady HP's and the scope has been fine. I also have a
TC Variable scope on my 35 Remington T-C Contender, and that held up to full
power 200 gr loads. I'm not sure how the T-C's felt recoil compares to a .44 Magbut I can say the the T-C's in the above cartridges are harder to hang on to than my 45 Colt Ruger with 315gr Keith slugs at about 1350fps. I'm fairly sure
that the 44 would not be any more violent than any of the above. I have never had any problem with these scopes, nor with a previous Leupold 2x.

Hope that helps,

Ken Karcich
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Loaded Clips
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:56:49 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Sep25.015920.1974@odin.corp.sgi.com> barnes@cowboys.esd.sgi.com (Jim Barnes) writes:
}If I have my clip loaded but out of the gun, the gun is still considered
}loaded.
}Right?
}Now what if I have a unloaded clip in the gun and a loaded clip near
}by???????
}Am I still in trouble?????

Potentially.  You're stepping into a gray area of the law.  That leaves
you open to the whim of the arresting officer.  At the time of arrest, the
law is what he says it is.  When you get to court, the law is what the
judge says it is.

Want to be a test case?  Plan on _years_ of litigation and _hundreds of
thousands_ of dollars in legal fees.  And you might lose.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Loading 7.62 x 39
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:23:32 GMT


#The best thing about this powder is the cost. It lists for $36 for 8 lbs.
#My supplier doesn't have it. Hodgdon pointed me to Graph & Son in Mexico,
#MS. as a possible source. I rang them up (314-581-2266) and they do carry it.

A minor correction - that's Graf and Son in Mexico, MO., not Mississippi.

8-)

#Does anyone have any sources for cheap brass and bullets? I saw an

The standard reply to this has to be Midway in Columbia, MO.  Unfortunately,
I don't have the number with me....

Rob

[MODERATOR:  I've found Midway to be fairly moderate compared to some
of the operators out there, and their service has truly been excellent.
But they are not the least expensive....  I often find better deals on
supplies from Lock, Stock and Barrel, I think out in Nebraska.  Phonum
is 800 228 7925.  From *them* I've had the best service of all, btw.]
From: julian%bongo.UUCP@nosc.mil (Julian Macassey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: more silencer questions
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:41:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: bongo.623
Organization: The Hole in the Wall  Hollywood California U.S.A.


In article <1992Oct4.155746.1887@nntp.hut.fi> mjalava@lk-hp-21.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava) writes:
#
#Are there also silencers with steel wool -type material inside? I have
#only seen ones with some kind of walls that divide the volume of the
#tube in smaller compartments. How would one keep the "wool" (or
#aluminium shavings?) material in the correct shape?

	I used to live in country that allowed anyone to own a silencer
- my local gunsmith even sold them - but only the annointed few could
own a rifle.

	So I suppose I can talk about what I did in the past without
the silencer police knocking on my door.

	As a kid, myself and friends used to make silencers. We had two
models. The first was as described above. We used the following
materials available to poverty stricken schoolboys locked in a baording
school.

	For the "straight through" design. I think we got the idea for
this from a car exhaust silencer (muffler U.S.) advert in a car
magazine. In fact I think this design when on cars is called the 
"Glass packed muffler".

	It is built from two tubes. The inner tube is perforated to
allow the hot gasses to pass into the cavity. The outer tube is sold.
Packed into the cavity is a sound absorbing material.

	So this is what we used: For the inner tube we used a material
called "Perforated zinc". This is zinc sheet perforsated with 1.5 mm
holes. I suppose in the U.S. I would use copper window screen material
or coarse silk screen material in stainless steel or copper. Roll it
into a tube bigger than the bullet. It can be the same size as the
outside diamter of the rifle barrel. 

	The outer tube can be a piece of copper plumbing pipe. You nead
to make some "washers" to hold the two pieces together.

	The "packing" can no doubt be fiberglass. As a spotty youth I
was not able to get hold of fiberglass. Couldn't get steel wool either,
so we raided the kitchen and ripped off some "Brillo pads". Brillo are
soap filled steel wool pads for cleaning pots.

	This design seemed to work well, even if it did smell of
carbolic soap.

	The other design was trickier to build. It required a row of
"washers" held inside a tube. One was made from tin cans salvaged from
the garbage and beaten flat. The silencers were made by cutting this
tin with boy scout can openers and hacksaw blades. These didn't seem to
work as well and were a pain. Using "real tools", they would probably
have been fine. I have "in my head" a design that can be built from
hardware store parts using a soldering iron and simple tools. 

	Building silencers was not as much fun as building pipes so we
could smoke ciggarette butts dropped by the masters. 

-- 
Julian Macassey, julian@bongo.info.com  N6ARE@WA6FWI.#SOCAL.CA.USA.NA
742 1/2 North Hayworth Avenue Hollywood CA 90046-7142 voice (213) 653-4495
From: Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Thi Huynh)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Cor-Bon safe in Glocks?
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:03:33 GMT

n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) wrote:
# 
# 	Anyone out there fired both CorBon's and Rem's +P .45?  Is there
# a big enough difference to warrant an extra $10/box?  How about 9mm
# and some of the other calibers?

I use Remington R9MM6 9mmP 115-gr +P.  I clocked an average of 1300 fps
from five rounds at 6 feet from the muzzle with a standard deviation of
10 fps.  (Beretta 92FS with 4.92" barrel).

This is Cor-Bon velocity for 9mmP.  Needless to say, I am happy with 
Remingtons.

-tt
From: tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock adoption
Date: 5 Oct 92 02:19:35 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <1992Oct3.003922.5337@latcs1.lat.oz.au> jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:


#	Has the Glock been adopted by any large organization, police-force or
#military?

	As of a couple of months ago, about 4,000 agencies or
departments in the U.S. had adopted or otherwise authorized Glock
pistols for use. Additionally, there are numerous foreign military and
law enforcement organizations using Glock pistols. 
	Recently, the Detroit P.D. received 1,500 Glocks, and the
factory began filling a 4,000-gun order for the Netherlands.
	
-- 
     Peter Alan Kasler                            Fax: 707-939-8684
     Threat Management Institute                Voice: 707-939-0303
     800 West Napa Street                     TMI BBS: 707-935-1713
     Sonoma, CA  95476                     Internet: tmi@netcom.com
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 26 Sep 92 15:39:03 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Sep21.034034.8177@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#Seriously, the Glock 10mm is nice, I only wish it had a standard exposed
#hammer and a manual safety or de-cocker.

I don't understand your preference for an exposed hammer.
As near as I can tell, what you really prefer is a totally
different operating system, like the traditional M1911A1.
These features make no sense for the Glock "Safe Action"
operating system.
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ballistics for .224 VLD bullets?
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:39:01 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

Does anyone have approximate ballsistic coefficients for the JLK
very low drag (VLD) .224 bullets (70, 75 &  80 grain)?

Thanks,
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet
From: scot@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Scot Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: reloading .308 Winchester
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:56:30 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site

I have a Lee single stage press that I regularly reload Win. .243 rounds
on.  I can't remember exactly which press it is but it is an "O" frame
press with an "I" type cross section.  This press handles the .243 just
fine and I am sure it would handle alot more stress than this operation
produces.  Make sure you adequately lube your cases and you should have no
problems.

-Scot
From: bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR KR COMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .303 - .308 conversion
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:04:25 GMT
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

#Is your rifle an SMLE?  I was under the impression that the SMLE
#wasn't a very strong action because of its design.  From what I was
#told and from what I've read, this is because of the locking lugs
#being back inside the receiver among other things.  Sorry I can't
#answer your question without generating another, but (if you do have
#an SMLE) is it safe to fire the .308 from that gun to begin with?

It's no problem with the WW2 No4 version -- the one with the barrel that 
protrudes from the woodwork at the muzzle.  Converted to 308 it was the std 
British Army sniper rifle thu the 1980's.  Commercially it was available as 
the Envoy for target shooting.  Conversion kits were also available.

Your warning is well justified in the case of all early Long Lee-Enfields 
and Lee-Metfords made prior to 1908.  The maximum these were designed for 
was the old Mark 6 cartridge.   I've shot the more powerful Mk7 in a 1902
Long L-E but...hey!

It's most unlikely that a WW1 era Mark III is involved (the one where the
barrel is flush with the woodwork at the muzzle): has anyone ever seen one 
of these converted to 308?   It might have happened to Aussi 303's tho as 
they were in production right thu WW2.   

As Hal (orig poster) is Canadian, his rifle is probably a No 4 so no 
problemo. 

#P.S.  If you have a P-14 comversion, please desregard.  They are 
hard>(if not impossible) to blow up.  

Absolutely!!

Cheers,

Keith
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Thanks for help on .303 -> .308 Conversion
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:02:12 GMT
Organization: who knows

halk@bnr.ca (Hal (H.V.) Kauffeldt) writes...
#...A couple people have mentioned the availability of
#modified clips for such guns, which go by the name of "Stirling" (?), so
#I guess I'll start looking for them in earnest!

If you can't find a local for the 7.62 mags, AJ Parker in England sells them
for 25 pounds and the extractors for 9 pounds.
From: cjp@megatek.com (Chris "Systems Stud" Pikus)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt Sporter safety
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:03:11 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

#From article <HBi3RB1w165w@swob.nullnet.fi>,
	by maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio):
# I have a standard Colt sporter, which I like very much.
# 
# However, the rifle is clearly designed with a right-handed shooter in
# mind. I just happen to shoot a rifle left-handed, so all the controls
# are not very optimal for me.
#
 
# I was wondering if it was possible switch the safety lever around
# somehow. Or would it be possible to add another lever on the other
# side, making the safety ambidextrous? With minimal tooling? Can I drill
# a small hole in the safety lever axis for this? The manual is not very
# helpful when comes to trigger assembly (I wonder why...)
# 
# --------
# maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
# Sweet Oblivion (+358 0 8092678, V.32bis 8N1) Official SRP Headquarters

	Yeah, I hate the right hand safety too.

	Unfortunately you cannot just turn it around, since the spring
and detent/plunger for those "click" stops engage a groove on the 
right side.

	The good news is that you can get an "ambi" safety and do the
work yourself. With tools you probably have around the house.

	Quality parts, Eagle Arms, and Pac West Arms all make an am-
bidextrous safety for the AR-15. They usually cost about $20 US.

	To install the safety:

	1. Seperate the two halves of the gun (makes it easier) and
	   cock (engage) the hammer.

	2. With a Large flat blade screwdriver, remove the hand-grip
	   retaining screw. (the screw on the inside of the pistol
	   grip handle).

	3. CAREFULLY remove the hand-grip. Note that there is both
	   the safety spring and detent/plunger retained by the
	   handgrip. Don't lose these parts. Also note which way
	   the plunger is.

	3a. while the detent/plunger will probably work both ways, it
	   will work best with the right orientation:

	    Crude ascii drawing below.
					 ______
		spring side--->>>>	<______)  <<<<< safety side

	4. now remove the safety lever. Replace with new one.

	5. install the new one, in reverse order. Use  enough lubri-
	   cation. [wow this is starting to sound like alt.sex.bondage]
	   Don't forget the spring and detent/plunger.

	As you can see, this can be easily done in about half an hour
with basic mechanical knowledge and a simple screwdriver.. No need for
a gunsmith.


-- 
Christopher J. Pikus,        | "Forgive me for not knowing about El Salvador. 
Megatek Corp., San Diego, CA | Like it's not like I'm ever going to go to Spain
INTERNET: cjp@megatek.com    | or anything."	  -- "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Handgun Ammunition Debate
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:56:57 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

Marshall ought to give, along with his "stop percentage", the percentage
of shootings with that round that he disgarded.

i.e.  	Fed 125 gr JHP .357	97%, "stopper"	with 99% disgarded.
	Rem 33 gr HP .22 LR	100%,"stopper" 	with 99.999999% disgarded.

etc.

Jim Del Vecchio