From: batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Rec.games.frp.cyber
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:02:45 GMT

ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat) muses:

>Which means we'd have to come up with a definite answer to the
>question "what is cyberpunk". Now, since alt.cyberpunk has, to date,
>been unable to come up with a single, solid, concrete answer that
>everyone agrees with, ][ highly doubt that we can here. The closest
>you'll get is that cyberpunk is a theme, not a genre. Under this
>auspice, many games fit the description, at least partially. These
>include, but are not limited to, Shadowrun, CP2020, CyberSpace,
>Vampire/Werewolf, CORPS, Rifts, WarpWorld, and others.

The term cyberpunk originally referred to fiction who's themes dealt with
the future (usually the near future), but specifically the attitudes of
society within the framework of improved technical development or intensified
urban life. This bracket was really clear at one time, and all the critics 
used it, and all the cyberpunk authors hated it. :-)

So Bruce Sterling, ever the joker, decided to publish 'Mirrorshades: The
Cyberpunk anthology'. In this, he included much fiction which did not even
remotely resemble what the critics were calling cyberpunk, but which was
written by authors who had, at some point, written something tagged 
cyberpunk. It has long been speculated that the purpose of doing this was
merely to confuse the issue, and it succeeded admirably.

More recently, there has been a band of people whom I affectionately dub
Deadheads who are passionate cyberpunk fans (or so they say) but have only
ever read Gibson. To these poor souls, bless 'em, cyberpunk means
Gibsonesque. Gibson doesn't like it, I don't like it, they don't care. Go
figure.

So, we now have three definitions of cyberpunk. Let us consider what games 
fit into each category. 

Under definition one, Cyberpunk, Cyberspace, and anything else beginning with
 cyber definately applies, and a case can be made for Vampire, although less
 convincingly for Werewolf. Personally, I think Vampire is a horror game,
 since the emphasis is placed on the vampire aspect, and not on any other
 aspect. Under this definition, Dark Conspiracy is definately cyberpunk.

Under definition two, so many games become included that it really does become
 someone pointless to consider. Anything with any Dark aspect is included, 
 anything with any advanced technology can be just about included. It quickly
 becomes apparent that this definition is pretty damn useless for deciding
 what goes in .cyber.

Under definition three... well. Does anyone really take the Deadheads seriously?
 These people have done to Gibson what fantasy fans have done to Tolkien.
 The less said about this, the better, as far as I'm concerned, since it
 isn't really very helpful.

Rifts isn't cyberpunk under definition one (the one I'd prefer to stick to)
because it has technology, but doesn't explore the psychology behind the
technology. Shadowrun is cyberpunk because it does explore it, but that
doesn't mean I have to like it, and I don't. CORPS might be cyberpunk,
and that depends on who's GMing it.

Anyway, this is not meant as a flame, or an illumination, merely a flicker
in the collective morass that is rec.games.frp.where-have-all-the-interesting-
posts-gone.

Blood and souls for my Lord Arioch!

Mad Chris.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc