HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 10:27:59 EDT
From: Ricki Dulin <RICKI@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Salary History?

As a previous Personnel Manager there a good reasons to ask for this
information.  Don't ever lie - it is almost always grounds for immediate
dismissal.

In poor times as the US is experiencing now most companies don't offer
a lot of negotiation.

Example:
Let's say you currently earn $45,000.  The job you just applied for will
only pay $25,000 (but you don't know this because they failed to post the
salary in their advertisement) The employer must assume you would not be
willing to take this sort of paycut (and therefore can't not afford you).
If you are willing to take such a big pay cut the employer will make some
assumptions about what kind of person would do such a thing.
In times like this I wouldn't expect to double your salary by switching to a
new employer.

Not sure If I helped or not, but just wanted to give you another perspective.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: jfr@RedBrick.COM ()
Subject: Re: Salary History?
Organization: Red Brick Systems, Los Gatos, CA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 00:50:42 GMT

In article <BILLD.92Sep28145403@gdstech.GRUMMAN.COM> billd@gdstech.GRUMMAN.COM (Bill D'Camp) writes:
>In article <BvAu7H.FDH@news.larc.nasa.gov> jka@windshear.larc.nasa.gov (J. Keith Alston) writes:
>
>   In article <92272.102759RICKI@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>, Ricki Dulin <RICKI@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> writes:
>   |> As a previous Personnel Manager there a good reasons to ask for this
>   |> information.  Don't ever lie - it is almost always grounds for immediate
>   |> dismissal.
>
>   > Spoken like a true human resources person. I don't want to seem to be
>   > advocating lying, because I'm not, but how would they ever know that you 
>   > lied? To my knowledge, employers don't give out current or ex-employees
>   > salaries to just anyone who calls on the phone.
>
>While they normally won't give them out on the phone, most will
>respond to a request on company letterhead.  Most companies want to
>verify what you've told them about your past experience and salary.
 
  If any company ever revealed this officially to another company without
  the employee's consent, they'd be subject to a pretty hairy lawsuit and
  would probably lose.  Some companies will place on their job app in the
  signature section that the employee gives permission to previous employers
  to confirm or divulge such information.  That is why I generally refuse to
  fill out employment applications (which is also why I generally don't work
  for big beauracratic companies :-) 
    
>While this may occassionally be to low-ball the offer to you, in many
>cases the verification isn't made until after the offer has been made.
>I know of a couple of companies who did not try for verification until
>after the employee had started work.  As the "previous Personnel
>Manager" says, there are good reasons for asking for the information.
>Most companies are opposed to offering outrageous salary increases to
>prospective employees, if someone says they are making 65K when they
>are making 50K then the amount of the offer made to this person would
>probably be far above the norm, and could cause significant problems
>within the company's workforce if the truth were to come out.

  If the company is willing to pay 65K or more for the person, then
  there is no reason why the person shouldn't get it, regardless of
  his previous salary.  If the company is unwilling to pay that, the
  fact that the person made it previously is irrelevent, particularly
  with the 15K disparity you are using as an example.  It is tougher
  when you get to within 3 or 4K of the previous (alleged) salary and
  the new employer's willingness to pay.

  Jon Rosen


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry)
Subject: Re: Family Leave Act
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:25:00 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <ted.718056682@sage0> ted@sage0.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ted Ying) writes:
>	Not really.  Spoken like a true pragmatist.  Terry was trying to
>	point out the reality of what would happen.  Currently, in the
>	US, a government mandated family leave policy would end up with
>	companies offering family leave to women, but not to men (I
>	believe that the family leave package proposed only mandates that
>	women be granted paid leave for pregnancy and recovery periods).

You remember incorrectly.  The Family Leave Act that Bush vetoed
proposed *unpaid* leave of up to twelve weeks for all *parents* (male
or female) to recuperate from childbirth,  care for a newly-adopted
child, or care for a sick family member.  (There were limitations
based on company size and on the "indispensability" of the
employee as well; I believe the sick family member could be a
parent as well as a child.)

>	In such a case, companies would be more hesitant to hire young
>	women (mostly married, but perhaps also single) since they might
>	be more "expensive".  The logic is that if you hire a young woman
>	then she might get pregnant and take the family leave and then
>	the company would be short one more FTE for the duration.  If you
>	hire a young man, you won't have to worry about offering him the
>	leave if his wife/girlfriend gets pregnant.

This is not true under the act as proposed.  Both men and women are
free to take unpaid leave to care for a new child.  

On to a larger question.  Several posters have proposed that the U.S.
would be a better place if employers were free to avoid hiring women
of childbearing age because of their increased risk of maternity
leave.  Do the people who support this idea also support
discriminating against other individuals on the basis of their
membership in statistical groups?  Should UPS be free to ban all
single men under 25 as drivers because of their statistical higher
rate of road accidents?  Should IBM be free to refuse to promote
middle-aged white men because of their statistically greater risk of
heart attack and stroke*?  Should Hewlett-Packard be free to fire
employees who reach 60 because "They don't have many years left in the
workforce, so they don't have that long-term point of view?"

                        
*Somebody asked if women's rate of heart attack and stroke wasn't
rising.  It is, but it is still significantly lower than men's up
until menopause.  Estrogen seems to be involved; women who take
estrogen supplements after menopause continue to have lower rates of
heart attack and stroke.

-- 
Betsy Hanes Perry   (note P in userid)     betsyp@apollo.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Company
"It seems to us that the readers who want fiction to be like life are
considerably outnumbered by those who would like life to be like fiction."
From: selee@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Lee Say Eng)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 07:17:12 GMT
Subject: NZ Engineering Jobs
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc


How does one go about applying for engineering jobs in
New Zealand?  

Which organization should one get in touch with to see 
what jobs are available in NZ? 

Any information regarding this will be greatly appreciated.


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich)
Subject: Re: Where all that vacation time went!
Reply-To: uunet.uu.net!weyrich!orville
Organization: Weyrich Computer Consulting
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 21:07:05 GMT

In article <1858@sousa.ltn.dec.com> paradis@sousa.enet.dec.com (Jim Paradis) writes:
>
>I wrote:
>>>I see [year-round schooling] as a way of getting kids accustomed to 
>>>keeping the ol' nose to the grindstone 12 months a year.... 8-(
>
>Greg Judkins writes:
>>Most forms of year-round schooling I have seen do not change the number of
>>days spent in school.  They only change the frequency and duration of off-times
>
>Depends who's doing the proposing... here in Massachusetts, there's a big
>push on to increase the *number* of school days from 180 to 220.  That's
>eight more weeks, which eats up most of summer vacation... essentially
>providing year-round schooling.

It does seem that kids get into less trouble while they are in school than
while they are on summer vaction -- not sure  if it is the heat or the
inability to deal with idle time non-violently. Perhaps an argument for
year-round schooling.

orville

--------------------------------------   **************************************
Orville R. Weyrich, Jr.                        Weyrich Computer Consulting
Certified Data Processor                     POB 5782, Scottsdale, AZ 85261
Certified Systems Professional                   Voice: (602) 391-0821
Certified Computer Programmer            Internet: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net
--------------------------------------   **************************************
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: bsmith@ecst.csuchico.edu (Charles Bennett Smith)
Subject: Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Inst.
Organization: California State University, Chico
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 00:32:53 GMT


Greetings.  I am very interested in trying to contact someone at the
Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Inst. (MBARI) about possible embedded
systems programming and systems administration job openings.

If you know who the proper contact would be, I would appreciate a
short email message with the information.

Many thanks,  Bennett (bsmith@ecst.csuchico.edu)

-- 

Lassen Research                                   Bennett Smith
300 Salem Street                                  bsmith@ecst.csuchico.edu
Chico California  95928                           (916) 343-6421
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: raboles@eos.ncsu.edu (RODNEY ALLEN BOLES)
Subject: Re: salary for new graduates
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:22:49 GMT

In article <BvCLHr.9yE@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> gregory j farrar <gfarrar@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>What range of salary could a person who has just graduated with a 4 year 
>computer science degree expect to be offered ??
>
>Thanks,
>
>Greg Farrar


RANGE? I'd say $20K - $40K. Depends on GPA, experience, company,
location, type of work, etc. I think the mean is around 31K or 32K
if I remember correctly. 

If you want to send me mail with your specifics: experience, grades
and what you are looking for, I would be glad to give you
a pretty reasonable guess for what you can expect. I've been looking
for about a year (and am very picky and have a great non-permanent job),
so I know what's out there.

Rodney Boles

raboles@eos.ncsu.edu
boles@ralvm29.vnet.ibm.com

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: icpa@orac.holonet.net (Tony Rodriguez)
Subject: Re: SAUDI ARABIAN Software jobs
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:56:12 GMT

jimmy@namao.ucs.ualberta.ca  writes:

>Hi,
>I am interested in Software jobs in Saudi Arabia. Would you know the following:
>  1. What kind of skills are in demand ?
>  2. What kind of minimum experience levels are needed ?
>  3. What is the best source for these jobs (i.e. agencies or companies
>     directly). Any names and address ?
>Thanks in advance,
>Jimmy
>P.S. Email to jimmy@namao.ucs.ualberta.ca
>--
>jimmy@namao.ucs.ualberta.ca
The International Computer Professional Association is a member supported
organization for experienced software professionals who want to work overseas.
We have contact with over 750 technical recruitment firms in the US and
abroad. If you are interested in working overseas, contact us and we will
send you information on membership with the ICPA.


Sincerely 

Tony Rodriguez

Director ICPA


International Computer Professional Association
2261 Market Street, Suite 309
San Francisco, CA 94114
USA

Tel: (415) 695 - 7618
Fax: (415) 252 - 5769

email icpa@holonet.net


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: baker@westsd.dco.dec.com (Art Baker)
Subject: Re: Where all that vacation time went!
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:35:24 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.210705.23112@weyrich.UUCP> uunet.uu.net!weyrich!orville writes:
>
>It does seem that kids get into less trouble while they are in school than
>while they are on summer vaction -- not sure  if it is the heat or the
>inability to deal with idle time non-violently. Perhaps an argument for
>year-round schooling.
>
>orville

 John Holt, an ex public school teacher, and one of the great
commentators on the failings of the U.S. educational system, used to say
that, before you can understand why kids don't learn anything in school,
you have to be honest about what the purpose of U.S. schools really is.
Specifically, you have to acknowlege that schools are really prisons,
designed to keep kids out of the way for a large portion of the day. Why
else the high fences, the barbed wire, the locked doors ?

 If we, as a culture, devoted as much time to integrating our children 
into the fabric of our society in meaningful ways as we do to increasing 
our level of "productivity" (whatever *that* means), then perhaps there 
wouldn't be so many kids getting into trouble.

 To quote Lilly Tomlin, "The trouble with the rat-race is that, even if
you win, you're still just a rat."


-- 
	***********************************************************
	* Art Baker			| Joy and fierceness...	  *
	* baker@westsd.dco.dec.com	|  			  *
	***********************************************************
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: boaz@concerto.lcs.mit.edu (Boaz Ben-Zvi)
Subject: Re: Employment agencies
Reply-To: boaz@lcs.mit.edu
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:39:07 GMT

In article <1aom58INNnk2@network.ucsd.edu>, ridgway@sdphu1.ucsd.edu (Douglas T Ridgway) writes:
|> Has anyone successfully used an employment agency to land
|> an entry level position?

Employment agency (a.k.a headhunter) makes its money by searching for
candidates that match the employer's needs. This involves quite a bit
of work and experience in the specific field. (To give you some sense,
an employer nowadays pays a headhunter something like $5,000 for a 
suitable experienced candidate (i.e., one that was hired, eventually).)
   Now with an entry level, anyone can find many with little effort,
especially in these recession times (e.g., look at misc.jobs.resumes).
So why should an employer pay for this ?  And a headhunter who delivers
an under-qualified candidate would damage his/her reputation.

|>  3. If a company were to receive your resume both directly and
|>     through the employment agency, would they be under any
|>     obligation to deal with the agency?

Yes. Many companies work with regular agencies and have an agreement
that they won't bypass the agency. I heard of a case where a candidate
was rejected (by Lotus) because they already got her resume from a
head hunter.  Some less reputable headhunters may send your resume
to many companies, and later find that you got a job (by your own
effort) at one such company and demand that the company pay them.

Hence:
 * Entry-level: forget about headhunters.
 * Non entry-level: If using headhunters then select reputable ones and
	expect the company to offer you a lesser salary as their budget
	should also pay the headhunter's fee (especially in smaller
	companies).

-- Boaz

===============================================================================
  _              _            __         __ ___  _ _   __ ___    ____      ___
 /_) _  _  __   /_) _   __ __ _/    o     |   |   \| __ |   |     /    \ |   |
/__)(_)(_|__/  /__)(_'_/ /   /__\/_(        __|_ __\    | __|_     \  __\| __|_
          __)                                           |                      
===============================================================================
 Boaz Ben-Zvi <boaz@crl.dec.com>           Home: (617) 494-1279  <boaz@mit.edu>
===============================================================================
From: bstring@mainz-emh2.army.mil (BOB STRINGFIELD)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Resumes on Computers (ROC)
Date: 1 Oct 1992 12:19:47 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


I receive a package several weeks ago (well two of them actually) that
might be of some use to this group since it is going to be some time
before getting them out.  

One is called Resumes on Computers and is within the Human Resource
Information Network (HRIN) and I quote from the vendor:

'Resumes on Computers' (ROC) is an innovative way to list your
qualifications with more than 2400 employers located throughout
North America.  ROC was created by Curtis Development Company
as a way to electronically pool large numbers of fresh resumes.  
Regardless of what you do or whether you currently have a job,
ROC will render the full text of your resume 'searchable'
by computer for  a six month period'.

I ran it and it is very user friendly.  Now the some of the fellows on
misc.jobs asked me to tell them when I got it.  I have it but getting
to distributed is going to be the obstacle.  The file will be
400-600K (depending if installation is included) compressed and just
too large to pass via email.  Best bet is a FTP site but we just can
not handle it with our present workload.  Anyone willing to set
this up and distribute this system?  

Military (Milnet) users can go to their local ACAP office and use the
program if there is one in your immediate vicinity.  If not then
contact your local ACS office for assistance.  Some should know
where to find it.

In addition, I want to contact the Bureau of National Affairs, (BNA) about
the remainder of the network but getting to it will the problem.
Oh, almost forgot, they can be reached at:  

	Executive Telecom System
	Internation
	College Park North
	9585 Valparaiso Court
	Indianapolis, IN  46209-6888
	(800) 421-8884
	(317) 872-2045
	(317) 872-2059 (fax)
--bob
 

----- End of forwarded messages
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: u8901852@cc.uow.edu.au (jenny watson)
Subject: Re: What to ask the interviewer...
Keywords: eep op orp ah ah
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 05:28:04 GMT

gheim@eng.auburn.edu (Greg Heim) writes:


>I have a couple of new-at-interviewing questions.  I haven't seen answers
>in the books I have read.

>Q1: When it is my turn to ask questions, what are good things to ask the 
>    interviewer?

>Q2: What is a good answer for "What benefits are you expecting?"


>Thanks for any help,

>Greg


Questions to ask the interviewer.  I like to ask whether or not they 
encourage further tertairy (collage, University, etc) studies.  This question
 shows that you're willing, and want to, continue to learn.  If they say no,
 its a good idea to make it clear that this will not discourage you not to 
take the job (eg its fine for you to do undertake study in your own time).
Another question is whether there is an opportunity for travel within the
job.  You can ask about the oportunity for promotion.  The question about
money is a tricky one - you don't want to seem to anxious or eager to find
out.  Its best to ask towards the end of the interview - or not at all.  A 
polite way of asking that I've heard about is to ask if they could give an
indication of the pay scale for someone of my qualifications within their
 company?  A question to end on is to ask where do we go from here? 
 i.e what the next steps are, do you contact them, will they let you know,
 etc. (however you want to word the question). 


What benefits are you expecting?  Now that's a  harder question.  With salary
you don't want to over or under price yourself.  Give an indication of the
range that you think is appropriate.  Or just say that you would want to 
receive the appropraite salary of someone of my age and qualifications.  
Other benefits - not a good idea to mention sickness benefits (they might
start thinking you're going to take sickies all the time).  You could mention
superannuation benefits (depending on the laws and customs in your country), 
or the possibility of joing a health scheme with the company???  I really
don't know the answer to this question.  It would be a good idea to try and
 find out before hand, what benefits they do offer so you can mention some
of them.  Never say you have to have a certain benefit before you'll work 
there, its no good cutting off you're chances early.  You can always refuse
the job later on.

Hope this helps.

Jenny.
From: kdq@quest.UUCP (Kevin D. Quitt)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: no-compete clause in employer contract
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 15:17:59 PDT
Reply-To: srhqla!quest!kdq
Organization: Job quest  (805) 251-8210,  So Cal: (800) 400-8210

eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager) writes:

> In article 5w0JRB3w165w@quest.UUCP, kdq@quest.UUCP (Kevin D. Quitt) writes:
> >bouma@cs.purdue.EDU (William J. Bouma) writes:
> >> Tell me more about these "no-compete" clauses.
> >
> >It basically means that you won't work for a direct competitor, or start a
> >competing company.  ...  For
> >example, if you worked at a place that made laser printers, and left to go
> >to a place that does high-speed chain printers, there would probably be no
> >perceived competition.
> 
> Then again, there probably isn't much relationship between the software to
> drive a laser printer and that needed to drive a chain printer.

(From the OS side they're not so different)


> The courts have said that it is against public policy to compel an employee
> to sign a contract with a no-compete clause where the effect of that clause
> is to prevent the person from working within his occupation.

That's part of what I so poorly stated.  Such a contract wouldn't keep
you from working as a programmer.


>  The courts
> rule these clauses invalid and unenforcable.  But companies do frequently
> require them (often in the semiconductor industry) and use the threat of 
> a law suit to attempt prevent you from working for a different company in the
> same field.  You can win a malicious prosecution suit, but it takes time and
> money.

If you are likely to be sued by the company hiring you (for example, if
they're hiring you because of that expertise), then they'll usually
guarantee you as part of your hiring contract to handle all associated
legal matters and costs.  I've seen this happen more than once.


 _
Kevin D. Quitt                                 Job Quest (800) 400-8210
srhqla!quest!kdq                               Learn How to Get a Job in SoCal

                96.37% of all statistics are made up.
From: lsmith@unssun.nevada.edu (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Career path
Date: 26 Sep 92 08:54:01 GMT
Reply-To: lsmith@unssun.nevada.edu (Larry Smith)
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno


 Hi folks,

	I need some suggestions for a career path. I'm currently
an operations supervisor (meaning shift supervisor) at a university
computing center, with a salary in the mid 30s.

	The problem is that there is no where to go from here. To
be promoted, my supervisor would have to retire or die (and she is
a healty young woman expecting to put in 30 yrs in the civil service)
What is the path out of operations? I have years of big iron and PC 
experience but only an A.A. degree.

                                               Larry


:wq

 Just the facts ma'm.....
                         LAPD Sgt. Joe Friday
 Facts? I don't need no stinkin' facts!
                                     Rush Limbaugh
From: ccollins@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Charles Collins)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Man Power Needed
Date: 7 Oct 92 03:30:43 GMT
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept,. Athens

In article <1890@sousa.ltn.dec.com> paradis@sousa.ltn.dec.com (Jim Paradis) writes:
>
>Karl Rominger writes:
>>Anyone interested in earning a healthy extra income?
>>Please email me at romingk@alleg.edu for more details.
>
>Why don't you post the details instead?
>
>--
You're looking for something a man can do for you, but a woman
can't?

-- 
Charles Collins
Internet: ccollins@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
CompuServe: 71033.3153
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc