From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:50:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.211901.4226@guinness.idbsu.edu> holmes@opal.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.173557.28173@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>>Alberto Adolfo Pinkas writes:
>>
>>>Set her free? What makes yoy think that he has her trapped and not the
>>>other way around? 
>>>Maybe she does not set him free.
>>>What makes you think that breaking with him will be less agonizing
>>>for her than breaking with her parent's traditions?
>>>What makes you think that he is pressuring her to marry him?
>>>
>>>There is a vialble solution for this problem: To tear down all traditions
>>>that keep some people blind.
>>
>>There are three certainties in this world- death, taxes, and Jews marry
>>only other Jews.
>
>>
>>A Jew marrying outside the religion is showing nothing but contempt for
>>the religion, for his or her coreligionists, and for our Law and tradition.
>>It's unfortunate that there are people within our religion for whom the
>>religion, and its history and tradition, mean so little.
>
>Read the Book of Ruth, anyone?

Ruth converted TO Judaism.  If you are talking about her first
marriag (to Naomi's son) then according to the meforshim the two
women did convert before marriage, it was just that subsequent
events showed that Ruth's was sincere and her sister-in-law's was
not.  The meforshim also point out that the deaths of the father
and sons with no children was a punishment for leaving Israel when
they should have stayed and used their wealth to alleviate the
famine as well as marrying in Moav.

>
>>
>>The telling of the Jew in this unfortunate situation that she's grown up
>>and no longer accountable to her parents is also a bunch of crap.  If she
>>were truly grown up, she would've known from the start not to date
>>outside the religion, and she would've had enough respect for her
>>parents to not even consider marriage to the non-Jew as an option.
>
>It is not an obligation to the _parents_ to marry within the religion.
>In fact, I believe that the choice of a spouse is one of the few
>points upon which tradition allows one to defy one's parents (in
>theory).  Thus "respect for the parents" cannot be the primary
>consideration.

True, however, the point is that "respect for parents" cannot take
precedence over respect for G-d.  Thus, if the parents were pushing for
an intermarriage, then the child is *required* to defy them.  In a
case of avoiding intermarriage, the parents are right and "respect
for parents" is one method for insuring that the child does the
right thing.

>
>
>>
>>Growing up is not when your sex organs, or the state, tell you you're
>>an adult; it's when you outgrow the mentality that only what's good
>>for you counts, and instead you realize that your actions can hurt
>>other people and that you're accountable to these other people.
>
>These are valid considerations, but they cannot apply to this case.
>If the only justification for not intermarrying is that it "hurts
>other people" then one's own rights _do_ take precedence.

In this case the "hurts other people" means leads to the
destruction of the community.  Again it is an argument that can be
used to prevent a wrongdoing.  An example would be arguing against
robbery or murder on the basis of what they do to society.  One
should not do them because they are wrong, not because of the
effect on society.  Similarly with intermarriage.  One should not
do it because it is wrong, but statements as to its effects help
understand some reasons why it is wrong.

>
>If there is an obligation here which overrides one's own wishes, it is
>to God.  If the Jewish faith and traditions are an enterprise founded
>on obligations among people, then it must be permissible to opt out of
>it, in whole or in part.

The first sentence is absolutely correct and there is such an
obligation.  The arguments that people are making are that
intermarriage is indeed an opting out of the obligation (in whole
and not in part) and that people who do this should realize it and
not pretend differently.
>-- 
>The opinions expressed		|     --Sincerely,
>above are not the "official"	|     M. Randall Holmes
>opinions of any person		|     Math. Dept., Boise State Univ.
>or institution.			|     holmes@opal.idbsu.edu

_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish