From: petel@sequent.com (Pete Lancashire)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Family and Society WAS: Re: Atheist Marriage- not me!
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:31:32 GMT
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

epowers@spock.NMSU.Edu (POWERS) writes:

>I got this by e-mail, and was asked to post it.  Enjoy!

>>In article <19227.2afa88c1@levels.unisa.edu.au>  writes:


[marriage,... love]
>NO such thing? What is love but alot of empathy?? True, it's kind of
>altruistic, but so would the idea of social raising be. It would be
>helping a society so that your own genes are better defended.

>Think of this as memetic evolution, a change in thinking that helps
>or hinders genetic evolution.

>>	You are being overly simplistic.  Not all adoptive parents have acted  
>>lovingly toward their children any more than biological ones.  And in order to  
>>gain evidence for your idea, you would have to document the love shown toward a  
>>particular child who has been raised by adoptive parents AND biological parents  
>>at the same time in order to compare.

>To not be simplistic would require several pages of material, definately
>not something to be posted to news. As for 'the same time' what
>of extended families or mini communities? These were immensly succesful,
>so I am kinda of look for a way to emulate that without slipping
>back to family dominated feudalism. 100% inheritance tax and a minimum
>standard fro all children would do it nicely, as well as trying to get
>more families to get together.

I agree not all adoptive parents/families have work, when looked into the
reasons for adpotion or the social 'training' of the parents developed
a conflict. But on the overall if you were to compare adoptive or wanted
children vs bio-, where the children were not wanted or the parents are
not able to handle the problems of raising children, the odds are very much
in favor of adpotive families.

>>>    Ask youself, who were the most important people in your life?
>>>    Your parents.
>>	Sorry, not everyone would say this.

Erik, I ask you and everyone to take some time to see and here what the
kids I have talked to have to say. And to read why many people that have
been to a analysist or counsellor have to say about their 'parents', you
may be shocked. For myself, my parents provided no more than 'food, shelter,
clothing', anyone could have done that.

>Sorry, bad wording. The emphasis was not on the parents side, but who cared
>for you. In a conversation with someone else, he said his parents were
>materially OK, but a couple down the road were closer to him, thus to all
>intents and purposes, he considered the other couple as his 'parents'.

Our current society has sold the idea of 'quality time', and for many
bio-parents, this is at the exclusion of the 'family'. This conflicts
many times with the current definition of 'family. There are many non
bio-parents that consider the raising of childern as their 'quality time'.

>>	What about those who are earning the money to pay for this?  What  
>>benefit do they get?

>(Personal satisfaction of seeing life growing)
>Later..

There are many doing it now without any pay, I have asked some people at
work, and I know some if they were paid the same, they would jump at the
opertunity. A small sample, but the best I have been able to do.

>Another point, I said I was open to questions, and, if given
>other evidence I could easily alter my current opinion. I did not,
>nor ever will say 'this IS best, no changes, no questions', it
>was just an idea. It has also changed slightly from all-state-paid
>to a community thing, a few families getting together, most adults
>going off to work whilst two or three stay back to actively raise
>them. The government would still pay a small amount of money to
>make sure all the children get a minimum. The government would only
>be there to make sure (with a popular mandate) that a minimum is
>paid so that we would not slip back into feudalism, not as a free
>ride for people.

>I hope this helped, and I would like it if you posted it for me.
>(please??)
>-- 
>John J McVey, Whyalla, Uni S. Australia    9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au
>Electronic Engineering student, Terror Tekkie and T.S.A.K.C. member!
>Any email can be posted unless I state explicitly otherwise.

>				Erik Powers

The current social system is basically not working, for those of us
in the USA did you see 60 minutes, and see the condition of the public
school in New York ?, or how about in my community in rural Oregon, a
community that has money, not upper middle class but has the money,
where when it rains, they have to put buckets in the hall ways of the
high school.  Just an example of the 'tip of the iceburg'.

I don't see how the preset systems can be 'fixed' and remain the
same. The basic concepts of bio-extended family, etc. just don't exist. 


Society has to adapt to the present, not remain in the past. If it
does, it in my opinion fail.

-pete
Pete Lancashire
petel@sequent.com
Newsgroups: alt.atheism