From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Halacha
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:02:11 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <1992Dec16.224217.11230@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, hem@col400.col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz) writes:
> In article <765322d2332021t179@witsend.uucp> "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com> writes:
>>In <1992Dec3.051450.25260@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, bfoo_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Brian E. Foont)  wrote:
>>#
>># In article <765313d7725276t173@witsend.uucp> dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions) writes:
>># >In <199211271434.AA15062@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>, kahl@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Murray Kahl)  wrote:
>># >#
>># ># Gated by kahl for:
>># ># From: Avrohom Keller
>># ># The reason why we are forbidden to turn on electricity on Shabbos is
>># ># since thorough turning on electricity you are generating a new
>># ># power - and Shabbos we are forbidden to generate a new power.
>># ># Kol Tuv!
>># >#  -=Avrohom=-
>># >
>># >  I'm still confused.  Nothing so far presented explains why I can
>># >  flush the commode to remove the solid & liquid wastes, but not
>># >  turn on the (solid-state brushless) fan to remove the gaseous
>># >  ones.  Both do work by gating externally-supplied power
>># >  distributed by common utilities; both are ultimately provided
>># >  by generators etc.  Please explain.
>># >
>># As I understand the issue the reason the the use of electricity is
>># prohibited is that in completing the circuit you are "building."  Which
>># violates on of the malachim.  I am sorry that I cannot cite a source for
>># this, but I am sure I have seen it before here.
>>
>>  Still as confused as ever.  A transistor switch doesn't "build"
>>  anything except in extremely idiomatic engineerese; all that
>>  happens is that the movement of carriers in one path influences
>>  the migration of carriers in another.  Flushing the commode, on
>>  the other hand, actually opens and closes paths for water to
>>  flow, which is far more a matter of "building" a circuit than
>>  anything a solid-state device ever did.  If this is the reason,
>>  we should go back to outhouses, or at least use chamberpots on
>>  Yom Tov.  (Hey! This is a VERY old minhag!  What happened to it?)
>>
>>  (History question: was there any resistance to the use of indoor
>>  plumbing on Shabbat when it was first introduced?)
>>
>>--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
>>--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
>>--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---
>
>
> I started to look up a little bit of this and found that the
> concept of electricity is MUCH more complex than the original
> statements.  There have been volumes written on the subject.  The
> Encyclopedia Talmudis devotes a great deal of space to the
> subject.  The Chazon Ish is the one who brought up the idea of
> "boneh" and many people are not sure what he meant.
>
> The Institute for Halacha and Science (exact name) has done a
> great deal of research into the matter and have issued a number
> of papers discussing exactly what is or is not forbidden.  I
> would say that your hypothetical solid state device may or may
> not be forbidden depending on what the end product is.  For
> example,the burglar alarm mentioned in an earlier post with
> certain switches or settings allowed and others not.


The mailing address for the Institute for Science and Halacha is:
Rechov HaPisgah 1      or  POB 16121
Jerusalem, Israel
Tel: +972-2-423230

They have published a text in two volumes entitled HACHASHMAL BEHALACHA
which costs about $10/volume. They also have KOVETZ MAAMARIM BEINYANEI CHASHMAL
BESHABBAT by Harav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (which sells for around $6). Shekel
to dollar calculations are approximations.

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL



>
> As an example of the complexity of the matter, consider several
> different uses of electricity.
>
> 1.  An incandescent bulb
>
> 2. A fluorescent bulb
>
> 3. Cooking on a hot plate
>
> 4. Cooking in a microwave.
>
> I would say that at first glance 1 and 3 would probably be
> considered cases of "fire" in that in each case a material is
> being heated in order to give off light or perform the action.
>
> 2 and 4 would probably not be considered as "fire" in the same
> sense.  However, the rabbis have already discussed cases similar
> to these.  In the case of the microwave, it may be considered
> like the case of the hot springs of tveryah (Tiberias) or cooking
> in the direct rays of the sun which are discussed in the Gemorra.
>
> In the case of the fluorescent, it may be something known as
> "moled aish" which may be a "derivation" of the laws of "fire"
> since it is causing something to give off light.  Note that this
> MAY be part of the halacha miderabbonon (a declaration by the
> rabbis) rather than a law directly from the Torah.
>
> Also note that there is a concept of "zilzul shabbos" performing
> an action which while technically permitted (originally) became
> forbidden by the rabbis because it is not "proper" to perform on
> shabbos.  Again the specific action involved is what is crucial
> to determining the status of the action.
>
> ____________________________________________________
> | Hillel Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li mi li    |
> | H_Markowitz@att.com | Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha |
> |_____________________|____________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish