HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cen466p@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (S. Parthasarhathy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Sati (was: Re: Some comments on articles on Kanchi Aacharya)
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:43:09 +1000
Distribution: world
Organization: Dept. of Chem. Engg., Monash University, Australia

In article <MANI.92Aug19120031@aix.Berkeley.EDU>, mani@aix.Berkeley.EDU (Mani Varadarajan) writes:
> In article <1992Aug19.155510.24518@wuecl.wustl.edu> sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
>     The first comment is very male-chauvinistic. In Brahminism,
>     if one's wife dies, he is not burned with his wife. But,
>     if one's husband dies, she is burned ( or forced to be
>     burned ) alongwith her husband.
> 
> I don't want to continue this pointless thread much longer, but
> why do you call this practice ``Brahminism''? Do you know any
> brahmins who *practiced* it or who *practice* it now? Did you
> know that many non-brahmin communities have done this over the
> years? I for one have *never* heard of any south Indian,
> brahmin or non-brahmin practice this abhorrent tradition.  I
> don't think it's a uniquely ``brahmin'' idea, and the
> literature indicates that it is a cross-cultural phenomenon,
> not unique to any community.
> 
> So please, attack the tradition, but don't smear an entire
> community at the same time! Our society has been male
> chauvinistic in its entireity, not just in its brahmin section.

As far as I know, Sati was practised widely by Rajputs (people of Rajastan). As
far as the reason goes, I am not sure whether it was practiced before invasion
of India by Mohammad Gori (sp ?) and Mohammad Kajni. IMO it came into  practice
when women committed suicide to escape from being captured. In the long run,
then I think it was transformed into "wife-entering-pyre-of-dead-husband"
custom.

This is the first time that I hear that sati was practiced among 
brahmins. any reference to enlighten me.
                                     
> As for animal sacrifice, I think we should try to stop the
> slaughter of buffaloes and other animals at non-Agamic and
> non-bhakti temples before we again go attacking brahmins on
> this point.  I rarely defend brahmins, because I know that some
> of my ancestors practiced some pretty horrific discrimination,
> but I will always rush to prevent the spread of untruth.

  Yep. I agree with you there.

Paarthaa
ChemEngg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil
From: thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT)
Subject: Re: Please be Accurate to avoid flame wars.
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:32:16 GMT



In article <1992Aug17.141953.15545@cs.odu.edu>, raj@news.cs.odu.edu (M. P. Krishna Raj) writes...
> 
>Another person came up with a article which says PMK is
>castiest party. This is also incorrect. Vanniar Sangam
>and PMK are different. While political parties 
> 
>Raj
> 

It is like saying LTTE is different from Pirabakaran.
Get real. Everyone knows that PMK is a front-agency for Vanniar Sangam both
headed by Dr. Ramadoss

RT
Xref: sparky soc.culture.tamil:1032 alt.culture.tamil:1188
From: lkumar@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: EVR - Part II (Atheism)
Date: 17 Aug 92 11:39:48 EDT
Organization: Univ of Miami IR

In article <16AUG199222334862@ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu>, shivakl@ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu (LAKSHMANAN SHIVAKUMAR) writes:
> Mr. Kumar in his aricle writes,
> 
>>	Excuse me, here .. Something  I had read comes to
>>	my mind. How will you expalin this ?
>>		Lord Siva comes as a Pulaya confronting
>>		Adi Sankara in a narrow path way ...
>>		And Sankara avoids him ... (may be, giving
>>		all the repect :-) ...
>> 
>>		After some exchanges ... Lord Shiva show his
>>		true figure and Sankara apologizes ...
>> 
>>	If this is TRUE ....
>>		Sankara was acting against religion ????
> 
> As has been pointed out by you, Adi Shankara was acting against
> religion and that's what god pointed out to him with this drama.
						       ^^^^^^^^^^
	With all humility, I object to the term "drama" ...
	It was a lesson that was taught to Shankara !
	With all the vedic knowledge and that of TRUTH (as was
	understood) he was still having that BIAS ....

	Lord Shiva didn't like it :-)

	That also suffices and provides evidence that there were
	manipulations of Vedas which the Almighty himself didn't 
	like it. 

	So whoever points this manipulations by Brahmins need not
	be fanatics and as a matter of fact they are speaking for
	truth ....

	After the revitalization of Hinduism achieved by Sankara,
	was the lesson accepted and followed ??? 
	That is my question ??
	If not Why ....

	Take the Kanchi acharya for example ....
		* As pointed out in the net earlier, he does not
		  see the widows, even if she is a Brahmin ...
		* That however does prevent him granting dharsan
		  to Indira Gandhi, born a Brahmin and married
	       	  outside the religion and also a widow ....
		* If the "jagadguru" can relax his rules for
		  rulers, that is what ordinary kuppan and 
		  subban (no offense intended for either Kanchi 
		  Acharya and Kuppan and Subban as well) will do
		  before power and money ....
		* If it is Rajiv's murder it will be foreseen ...
		  (denials were also issued later on) ...
		* Can Silk Smitha or Anuradha also get same proximity
		  to Kanchi Mutt ... as Miss Jaya ....
		  [ common to all 3 : Cine-stars and popularity
		    difference      : J has the power right now]
	So is the lesson got incorporated into practice ... ?

	Anybody out there to explain ??
 
>
> Regards,
> Shivakumar

With Regards,

Laxman

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian,alt.culture.kerala
From: ss51@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Sundaram Sridharan)
Subject: Re: I HATE TAMILS
Reply-To: ss51@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Sundaram Sridharan)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:38:40 GMT

In article <l8j7hjINN6uo@skat.usc.edu> sramacha@skat.usc.edu (Sudarshan Ramachandran) writes:
>
>"I hate Tamils. I *really* *HATE* Tamils"
>
>
>This string is present in the sub-conscious memory locations of most non-Tamilians
>I've known. Civility prevents these people from expressing the above feeling
>overtly, but the point is that this feeling _is_ there. Tamils, aka "Madrasis"
>are, IMHO, the most hated sect/group/community in India. 
>
>In the North, we are the objects of ridicule. Comedians in movies imitating us
>evoke loud guffaws. In Bombay, the hate-tamil-syndrome gave birth to the
>Shiv Sena (correct me if I'm wrong). In Karnataka, we've fallen in grace. 
>I remember the days when Kannadigas had a lot of respect for Tamils and things 
>Tamil. But now, there is open hate. 
>
You talk about non-tamils hating tamils; but how about the apathy that exists
among the tamils themselves towards each other. Of all the ethnic groups, it
is this group where a Tamil stranger would talk to another in English for
hours even after knowing that the other person is a Tamil; or he/she would
simply turn his/her face and walk away the first time.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Re: A threat from....
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:48:50 GMT

In <weYwdd600VB=A8ofcK@andrew.cmu.edu> ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta) writes:


>I read with interest the article on Abdul Kalam, India's
>foremost rocket scientist, on S.C.T.

>I just wanted to ask: how many of you know that the Space
>Center in Trivandrum (where the satellite launchers are
>built) was one of the targets that the LTTE threatened ?

>Technology development and terrorism don't go together.
>You can have an Abdul Kalam or the LTTE, not both.

>-arun gupta
>ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu

   Dear Mr. Gupta:

    Who is terrorist? In Punjab some Sikhs, in kashmir, some
muslims, in TN some Dravidians. Come on Sir, let us be clothed
in fake patriotism. The atrocities committed
by our Indian/Sinhalese army/police against innocents have
made them fight against governments.

     You decide who is a terrorist by facts. Indira Gandhi and
family and RSS were/are the biggest terrorists in the subcontinent.
8000 innocent Tamizh lives have been taken by your army. 
RSS killed mahatma. they are not banned. while tamizh freedom
movement is banned even though they do not know for sure
who killed the guy.

  My father retired as a major and my grandfather joined
Khaadhi movement in the 20's. We are no less patriots. 
   
 India did not support Tigers with any altruism. It did not want
American's setting up a base in Trinco. Ganfhi's used
Tigers for their own ends but in ended their own life.
Indian govt. wanted pirabaakaran to be their toy. he refused
in new delhi. Under the pretext of protecting tamizhs, the army went
and killed so many people.
 Come on Sir, don't decide that whatever our govt. is
doing is noble and other people are terrorists because they happen
to be on other side of the govt

KK.
From: kumar@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU (V.R.Kumar)
Subject: Re: A threat from....
Organization: CSIRO Division of Info Tech, Sydney, Australia
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 02:04:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.202329.10597@coe.montana.edu> prem@cs.montana.edu (M.P.Premkumar) writes:
>In article <2A93DBB3.8878@orion.oac.uci.edu> sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy) writes:
>>
>>	What kind of technology you are talking?. The technology in which
>>	Abdul Kalam is involved is nothing different from LTTE's kind. 
>>	After all his products are going to be used to target Pakistan and
>>	terrorise Pakistanis. Any way we have different a name for state
>>	terrorism.
>
>Well it is called DEFENSE. And India is justified in doing that keeping in mind
>we are in the midst of China and Pakistan.
>

Absolutely right Premkumar. If India does not spend on defense, I am
very confident that India will one day be attacked by Pakistan. Pakistan
accuses India of trying to conquer or attack them. But take the 
history. All the previous 3 wars were initiated by pakistan and Pakistan
lost. It find what Abdul Kalam is doing for India is very much neccess-\
ary. The space technology has earned a very good name for India.
Be proud of it rather than blaming those who worked to achieve it.
The successful launching of Agni (surface to surface missile (1500 miles) has definitely boosted India's defense program.

I am not interested in India bullying its neighbours and I am very
much against it. At the same time, India should always be alert and 
the best way to achieve it is developing these type of sophisticated
technologies.

Cheers,

V R Kumar

>Sincerely yours,
>M.P.Premkumar


-- 
 V.R.Kumar (Ramkumar Venkatachalam)                                 
 CSIRO, Division of Information Technology                         
 P.O.Box:1599, Macquarie Centre, North Ryde, NSW 2113, AUSTRALIA  

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: srin@cs.cornell.edu (Aravind Srinivasan)
Subject: Some requests
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Cornell Univ., Ithaca NY
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:20:29 GMT

Dear ValaignargalE,

   I have a few requests, on seeing so many flame wars on the valai.

(1) In any issue, the very fact that one has strong opinions implies
that one has been affected deeply, one way or the other. So, if you
and I have completely different views on reservation, say, it just
means that we have been affected differently-- that we have seen the
same thing from different angles. Let us try to find common ground
and agreement, rather than amplify our differences.

(2) A satirical article about somebody whom we don't know personally
is only likely to further drive a wedge between us.

(3) This medium can be put to wonderful uses, if we apply patience
and understanding. Pl. remember the trouble some people took to get
this started.

(4) A suggestion about discussions: an article voicing a strong opinion
can use the tone of "this is my personal experience; what are your
comments please?" to find commom ground and understanding.

Clearly, I have said nothing new or profound above. These are just
some suggestions.

Anbudan,
Aravind.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Re: A threat from....
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:48:53 GMT

In <2A93DBB3.8878@orion.oac.uci.edu> sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy) writes:
>>ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu

>	What kind of technology you are talking?. The technology in which
>	Abdul Kalam is involved is nothing different from LTTE's kind. 
>	After all his products are going to be used to target Pakistan and
>	terrorise Pakistanis. Any way we have different a name for state
>	terrorism.

>	Remember, Enrico Fermi's statement on nuclear bomb: "why see the
>	destruction, see the beauty of physics".

>	Now Kalam would quote Geetha and become a most respected patriot.
>	
>	Your comparison is not a right one.

>M. Sundaramoorthy
>sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu

    sundar aiyah!

         pOli thEsapatRu pEsi koNdu
         poi mitha vaatha roopathil-ilankai
         pOi appavi thamizharai kondRa
         pEi kaL thaan Gandhia vaathikaL.

     Kathiravan. 
     
    
         
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: nraju@usc.edu (Narayanan Raju)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Dear Mr. Meenan
Date: 17 Aug 1992 17:28:00 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nunki.usc.edu


1) dear Mr. Meenan, 
			You write that,


>As I wrote earlier, thanks to your forefathers (Bramins), we all are 
>classified as sudras.  (Not that it matters, but it shows your ancestors
>mentality)

I have a lot of question to you.

1) you claim here that all non-Brahmins were classified as Sudras

Earlier you said that,
>  The Britishers
>employed a group of Bramins to reclassify the TN castes (jati) into the four
>varnas.  The Bramins promptly classified the VeLaaLa, caste into the 'sudra'
>varna.

Your statements are self-contradictory.
 Which of these statements are true. Was every non-Brahmin classified as
a Shudra or only some non-Brahmins  were classified as Shudras?


2) Why are you getting personal here? Who told you that I'm a Brahmin.
					^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I suggest that you use your ability to reason and desist from personal
attack.




3)By your logic, IF SOMEBODY MENTIONS SOME POSITIVE POINTS ABOUT ONE COMMUNITY,
HE HAS TO BELONG TO THAT COMMUNITY.  NO ONE IS CAPABLE OF THINKING 
JUSTLY. EVERYBODY MERELY GOES BY HIS COMMUNITY IDENTITY.

	THE SAME LOGIC SHOULD APPLY TO YOU.

THAT IS, YOU ARE BOOSTING UP CLAIMS OF SUPPRESSION, SINCE THAT YOU BELONG
TO  ONE COMMUNITY YOU SAY THAT COMMUNITY IS GOOD AND OTHERS ARE NOT.

How do you explain your this?




4)You concede that even before the Brahmins classified the society,
there were castes in existence. This is precisely my point. Casteism
existed in our society irrespective of Brahminsism.
From: gt9911a@prism.gatech.EDU (SUNDAR)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Dark Future for Professional Services in TN?
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:25:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: hydra.66431
Organization: Georgia Institure of Technology, Atlanta , GO BRAVES

In article <1992Aug18.175157.22349@cbfsb.cb.att.com> muthu@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (muthu.muthusamy) writes:
>
> I think there is some logic behind the reservation system.
>To give more chance for backward, sc/st people and
>they are the majority in TN.

 Sure we have connection all over India. The only connection I can think of
is GOD.

>

 Because people are chosen in most of the state by merit rather than which
caste he was born in. 

>Moreover farward people have lot of connections through out India
>and some how they get into some professional collecge if not
>in TN. For example take IITs, I could see very few non-bhramins,

 Man now you want even 50% reservation in IIT. It is one of the institution
Which selects you solely on how you do in their exams. Even for SC/St you 
have to get minimum marks. I think many of the seats for sc/st goes unused
regularly in IITs.

>also in RECs. I donot have any idea about medical line.
>
>In jobs area, who dominates in TVS groups, Ashok Leyland? 
>
>Muthu

May I ask why TN has gone down in its growth. I would attiribute it to politics
Mr. Muthu what do you say about people who regularly insult elederly people of
a particular caste because of the way they speak or the way they dress. Is is
because those people do not become rowdy. I have lived both in Delhi and Madras.

My parents who have spent 25 years in Madras do not want to live in TN. It is
not because ofreservation . It is because of the daily insults they have to
go through in Madras. 
*******************************************************************************
SUNDARARAMAN VAIDYARAMAN               * *   IF MY MIND CAN CONCEIVE IT   
SCHOOL OF CHEMICAL ENGINEERING         * *   AND MY HEART BELIEVES IT   
GEORGIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY        * *   THEN I KNOW I CAN ACHIEVE IT       ATLANTA GA 30332                       * *                 -Rev Jesse Jackson  
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: bs@wucs1.wustl.edu (Bala SWAMINATHAN)
Subject: Re: tamilnadu pOkkuvaraththuk kazhagangal
Keywords: TPTC,MPTC,CTC,NTC,PTC etc
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 02:40:35 GMT

In article <Bt5JDD.3uK@nntp-sc.Intel.COM> rkrithiv@pima.intel.com (Ramamurthy Krithivas) writes:
>
>>From: Venkatachalam Aruna (Affable)
>>Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
>>Vellore      - pattukkotai azhagiri pOkkuvaraththuk kazhagam
>> Are kamarAj, rAjaji names used for any transport corporations?
>> If not, why? And how they are inferior compared to pattukOttai
>> azhagiri?
>
> What "tamizh thondu" did Rajaji and Kamaraj do ?

I do not know if Rajaji did any "Thamizh thoNdu" but Karmaveerar
definitely did. His rule is still considered the Golden Age of
Industrialization in TN. You can now imagine why there is a district
in the name of Kamarajar and a University (Madurai Kamarajar Univ).
Also the Madras domestic terminal is named of the great man.

Apart from his kulak kalvi thittam for the Tamils when he was the CM of TN,
Rajaji had done a lot of translation works for Thamil literature.
Even Rajaji's kulak kalvi thittam was forgotten by some kind souls..
they have a Rajaji Hall in Madras (Govt. property)!!. And many others with
his name....

>
>   ----> Did they cut off the poonol/kudumi of Brahmins ?
>   ----> Did they harass brahmins/brahminism"-)" ? 

It is just that they should not try in any way (a la kulak kalvi) to
suppress the fellow citizens in the name of hierarchy of castes.

>         
> Dammit, with no proper "credentials" how can a transport organization 
> be named after them ??? 
>
> [Janakaraj Mode]
>  -->> Venkat!  Innabaa neee ....  kurumbu thaane ???? <<--
>  .......... 
>
>Krithi. 

Apart from talking about kurumbu's... the fact now in TN is that you just
need to be a well wisher of the rulers. This alone is sufficient for some
one to become famous.

S_Bala
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT)
Subject: Re: kaaval theivam
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:14:50 GMT



>>In article <BstsIB.Ht7@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu) writes...
>>Popular in what sense? Because of increasing no of innocent refugees searching 
>>for better life in Europe/canada?(you can see many news item about this)
>> or because of the killings?
> 
>Can you please give some examples of these news items ?  For your information,

I don't remember all the "world-news" item that appear 1/4 page on your daily
news. Anyway I will post it in future if I see one

> 
>You too have taken the first boat to the west and it won't be long before
>you post a 'green card enquiry' in SCI (if you haven't got one yet).
> 

I think this a un-necessary personal attack. 

>Compared to that there is nothing wrong if a Tamil from SL seeks asylem in the
>west, especially considering the fact that 17,000 (a figure quoted in the
>above book) Tamils were killed since 1983.

I did not say that seeking asylum is not correct. I really sympathize with any
refugee whoever is driven out of their homes. 

> 
>Meenan Vishnu
> 


RT
Xref: sparky soc.culture.tamil:1059 alt.culture.tamil:1191
From: rammohan@aludra.usc.edu (Karthikeyan Rammohan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Please be Accurate to avoid flame wars.
Date: 17 Aug 1992 15:04:49 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

	Mr.M.P.Krishna Raj,
		Let me tell you that my neighbor, who supposedly
belongs to the backward caste(even though he is a well off
person,economically) got into guindy, after getting 24/50 in the
entrance exam and 43% , while my brother with 42/50 in the entrance
exam and 94% still could not get into any govt college.Are you trying
to fool people?Please remember that i have lived 17 difficult years
in Madras ruled by people who use the names of Anna, periyar to
justify there actions, and there are 2 million fools who beleive them
and continue to quote them forever.No wonder TN has people who commit
suicides on silly incidents.
	I seriously think that this newsgroup was established not to
discuss tamil culture, but for things like anti-hindi stuff, brahmin
bashing etc.The way it works is,
1) First Meenan Vishnu and kathiravan krishnamurti will post articles
that glorify brahmin bashing(justified by using what some idiot said
50 years ago or what happened 50 years ago.)
2)There will be people like me who will post a rebuttal to that.
Then immediately people like Sundara pandian will post mail supporting
Meenan Vishnu and also will make statements like , we should allow
this newsgroup to have too many flame wars.
This will be seconded by Mr.Krishna raj after a couple of days.

let everybody express his own views.
but yen Mr.Pandian, Meenan vishnuvirku vakkalatthu vangugirar
enbathuthan periya puthir?
Intha maathiri mail anuppicha, ADAMI system yen use panna villai endru
veru oru puhar?
entha mailukku pandian enna solvar, "Ivan oru veri pudittha
brahmin.avan ennavena sollattum, enakkenna"?
ram




Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: mvishnu@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu)
Subject: Re: nAgore E.M.Hanifa padalgal.
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:29:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.142258.13321@menudo.uh.edu> aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu (Venkatachalam Aruna) writes:
>Some of his popular religious songs are:
>  
>  (1) iraivanidam kaiyEnthungal, avan illai yendru
>      solluvathillai.
>  (2) kElungal kodukkapadum, thattungal thirakkapadum
>  (3) thendral kattre konjam nillu

Here is some more of my favorites:
   (1) eecca maraththu inpac cOlaiyil nabi naayaaham iRaivan thanthaan 
       antha naaLaiyil

   (2) ellaa puhazum iRaivanukkE antha allaa oruvanE thuNai namakku

   (3) ellaa ulahum Ehamaai aazum vallaan unakkE vaan puhaz allaa

   (4) theen kulak kaNNu enkaL thiru maRip poNNu..

>venkat@jetson.uh.edu                  | If you love something,set it free.

Meenan Vishnu