HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: valrik@carina.unm.edu (Rick J. Valles  VSC)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Military flights (Was: Re: Jumping through clouds)
Date: 21 Jan 93 05:42:35 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
NNTP-Posting-Host: carina.unm.edu

In article <1993Jan20.170229.20516@engage.pko.dec.com> koning@koning.enet.dec.com writes:
>
>I've seen the DZ symbol on FAA maps... after looking REALLY hard, knowing
>where I was supposed to look.  Those things are printed in grayish blue on
>a similar color background; the contrast ratio may be 10% on good days.
>In bright sun if you know where to look you MAY see it; otherwise, no chance.
>
>Apart from that, active DZ doesn't mean that airplanes are told to stay
>away.  It means they're expected to watch out for skydivers.  Likewise,
>skydivers are expected to watch out for planes, since the air above the
>DZ is NOT exclusively ours.  We're operating VFR -- see and avoid, remember?
>
>(I WOULD expect any IFR flights to be routed around DZs, but VFR flights can
>go anywhere other than restricted airspace... and a civilian DZ isn't
>restricted airspace.)


Paul makes an excellent point about airspace.  Many DZ's are located at 
uncontrolled airports or airstrips.  Pilots at uncontrolled airports are not
required to have a radio.  Many pilots flying locally under VFR conditions
don't call for a weather briefing and notams.  Many sectional charts don't 
indicate parachute jumping areas correctly.  My point about the A-7's under
our 5-way during clear sky conditions was that there shouldn't be any 
expectations!  Yes, SEE AND AVOID! (and talk to other aircraft on common
traffic advisory and approach freq's if applicable)

Now that I am a pilot as well as a skydiver, I have an entirely different
view of jumping through clouds.  My escapade of jumping through a fully
obscured sky (above 5,000 AGL) 12 years ago now seems irresponsible.  It 
would make for a pretty scary IFR flight if you happen to hear someone above
you announce, "jumpers away!"

Rick J. "Rocket J." Valles
PP-ASEL-Body!

>
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: rigg@valeron.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg)
Subject: Rename rec.skydiving to rec.outdoors.skydiving
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Madison, Chemical Engineering
Date: 25 Jan 93 11:42:19

Recently, an official RFD (Request For Discussion) was posted to
several group suggesting that several groups be moved to the
rec.outdoors. hierarchy which currently contains just
rec.outdoors.fishing.

If you have any comments about renaming this group, please post them
to news.groups.  Followups to this group and email will not be
considered.  The guidelines state that the official discussion must
take place in news.groups.

tim
--
    ...  Then they came for me,
	   and by that time there was no one
	     left to speak up for me. (Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945)
From: bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Robert Church)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: I Witness Video
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:44:47 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Ohio University School of Art. Athens

In article <SHIBUYA.93Jan25083120@chute.bl.cad.slb.com> shibuya@bl.cad.slb.com writes:
>Did you see NBC I Witness Video this Sunday evening?  They had a
>lengthy (something like 15 minutes or more) episode on freestyle
>skydiving, including several clips from From Wings Came Flight,
>Travelling II, and quite a bit from SkyBlazin '92.  Quite a few big
>name skydivers showed up in interviews.  Overall I thought it was very
>well composed and very positive to the image of the sports.
>
>	-Hiroto

I'm surprised. I though 'I Witness Video' would only bother with a bounce.

Bob Church
From: esj@eng.ufl.edu (Eric S. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Video helmets
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:08:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: eng.1993Jan26.150819.24831
Organization: Engineering Computing Services - Univ. of Fla.

Hi gang,

Well my least favorite uncle owes me a bunch of money this year, and
Im thinking about investing in a video setup. So I am asking all the video
folk out on the net what their favorite helmet and video camera is. 

I want a helmet that has:

	1. Single point release
	2. Parachute recovery
	3. Mounts for stills and video.
	4. Mounts for Dyter
	5. Mount for heads up video on light

I want a 8mm camera that does REAL crisp video. 

For the helmet I have looked at the Leo Dickinson (wally photographer)
design and I like it much. Anyone know if these are distributed in the 
US. Anyone know of any other brand which has all the above features?

As for the camera, lets pretend cost is no object. What is the best
8mm video camera for freefall? 

Then lets pretend we only want to spend $700. Now whats the best we can get?

Thanks for any input.

Ej
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: mark@vti.com (Mark Smith)
Subject: Re: Your Company
Reply-To: mark@vti.com
Organization: Virtual Technologies, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:35:08 GMT

Hector Mandel (mandel@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: On the FidoNet side of things this looks like all the other message areas on
: the BBS.  People who post on the FidoNet BBSes generally have no easy way
: of addressing personal mail to Usenet recipients.  As a result, you'll
: occassionally see messages posted that should have been sent through private
: email.  
...
: Hope this helps...

Thanks, yes it does.  I wasn't as "flaming" as it might have appeared.

I'm glad for the information on how FidoNet works.  I was always curious
about it.  As my email to you suggests, you might want to check out why
my mail to Rich.Greenwood@p0.f3027.n147.z1.fidonet.org bounced.  I didn't
send mail to ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org!SKYDIVE because I already
know that that doesn't work.
--
      /_\   Virtual                  Mark Smith          USPA D-13761
    /-~_  \    Technologies          mark@vti.com
  /      ~-_\     Incorporated       703-430-9247,   FAX 703-450-4560
/_____________\      46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160, Dulles, VA 20166

"I'm a light eater. As soon as it's light, I start to eat."
        --Art Donovan, 310-pound Baltimore Colts defensive lineman
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving,rec.aviation.soaring
From: kosower@nxth04.cern.ch (David Kosower)
Subject: Paragliding
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 12:23:49 GMT


   Disclaimer: These are not necessarily the appropriate lists, but they were 
the most appropriate available to me.

   I'm thinking of taking a week's worth of lessons in the sport, but first:
does anyone know what its safety record & accident statistics are like?
Any other advice would be appreciated.

   Please reply to me directly, as I don't usually read these groups.

   David A. Kosower
   kosower@nxth04.cern.ch
or kosower@dxcern.cern.ch
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: Robert_Magee@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Magee)
Subject: Re: How'd he do it?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:08:33 GMT

Simple, put a couple of handfuls of flour in the main container and when you
dump, voila! Smoke.  (Don't try this if there is any chance that it might get
a little wet, this will create quite a mess) ;^)

Bobby Magee
Robert_Magee@mindlink.bc.ca

Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: horn@freefall.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Horn)
Subject: Re: Breaking one FAR can ruin your whole day.
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:56:57 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.204105.13141@wdl.loral.com> WALKERK@ssvax1.ssd.loral.com ('Kent Walker') writes:
>In <1993Jan21.153202.17819@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> horn@freefall.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
>
>> Somewhere in there it says: if you're jumping from <10k' MSL you have to
>> have 500' horizontal clearance from clouds, you must be at least 1000' above
>> any clouds and at least 500' below any clouds (I'm not sure I remember the
>> numbers correctly).  
>> 
>Hmmmm.... Isn't the "Cloud Question" on the USPA license exams anymore?  I seem
>to recall it being asked on every test, A through D.

Yes, and please forgive me oh perfected one, for clearly my memory does not
serve me as well as yours serves you.  I shall, in the future, make up for
this error by memorizing the holy FARs - all parts!  Have mercy on me, amen.
;-)

Sersiously, I just don't remember the specifics, but I do remember that you
must have cloud clearance.  And on days that I need this information I just
refer to my SIM for the necessary specifics.

--
  _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/     _/_/_/  _/  _/ _/ _/_/_/ #include <std/disclaimer.h>
   _/    _/ _/  _/ _/   _/ _/   _/ _/  _/ _/      sparkie
    _/  _/_/   _/_/_/  _/_/    _/_/   _/ _/_/     horn@mickey.jsc.nasa.gov
_/_/_/ _/     _/   _/ _/  _/  _/  _/ _/ _/_/_/    D-14578 - Blue Skies!
From: pwd@Apple.com (Patrick W. P. Dirks)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Q: AFF safety
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:55:44 GMT
Followup-To: rec.skydiving
Organization: Apple Computer

In article <5062@svin09.info.win.tue.nl>, javhar@wsinfo01.win.tue.nl (Jack
v Rijswijck) wrote:
> 
> 
> Could anyone give me more info about the AFF method? I've read the FAQ but I've
> also been told that this is a very dangerous method and outlawed in most
> states. Is it? At which sites can I do this AFF method if it isn't?
> I'm looking for dropzones in the Fargo (ND) area, specifically Sauk Centre.
> 

That sounds like utter nonsense.  AFF has a better overall safety record
than plain recreational skydiving!  Basically, AFF (Accelerated FreeFall)
is a sequence of 7 levels of skydives designed to teach you to skydive by
getting you into a real skydive as soon as possible: you get lots of
freefall time (about 45 seconds per jump is typical) and you'll be pulling
your own ripcord on your very first jump.  The objectives at each level get
a little more complex: from 3 practice rip-cord pulls and proper altitude
awareness on level I to a pretty complex set of turns, backflips,
front-flips and tracking on level VII.  You could be signed off student
status after as little as 7 jumps. You are accompanied by two VERY
experienced instructors on your first few jumps, and one one on later
jumps.  They hold on to you, one on each side, throughout the whole jump,
from climb-out to pull-time.  That's also what helps improve the safety
aspects: aside from an AAD on your rig, the instructors will make sure
either YOU pull your ripcord on time or THEY will pull it for you.  It's
endorsed by the USPA (US Parachuting Association) as a solid training
method.  Call up a dropzone that offers AFF instruction and get them to
answer all your questions.  

My Parachute Pages lists only one drop zone in North Dakota: the Valley
Skidivers Club in West Fargo.  Contact name is Don Solberg: their phone
number is (701) 282-5072 or (701) 237-4561.  Alas, they seem to offer only
static line instruction (and  maybe an aggressive salesman might try to
push you to start with that).  There's a DZ in St. Paul, Minnesota, the
Baldwin Sport Parachute Club.  Cantact Mike Hayden or Davide Mills, no
phone number listed.  They offer instruction but don't say what kind: maybe
they do AFF.

By the way, in The Netherlands there's a DZ in Rotterdam, the Flying
Dutchmen, contact Peter Post, 010-4158421 or 010-4159450, that offers
instruction of unspecified type, as well as the internationally famous
Paracentrum Texel: contact Herman Landsman, 0222011464 or 0222011436.  They
specifically offer AFF and might be a good place to ask more questions as
well.

I learned to jump through AFF, and by the time I graduated I felt quite
comfortable jumping out of an airplane by myself.  I'd recommed it as a
great way to learn to skydive.

Hope this helps,
Blue Skies!
-Pat Dirks.
From: radar@hank (Reidar J. Husmo)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Q: AFF safety
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:50:58 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Paul Koning (koning@koning.enet.dec.com) wrote:
: In article <5062@svin09.info.win.tue.nl>, javhar@wsinfo01.win.tue.nl (Jack v Rijswijck) writes:
: |>Could anyone give me more info about the AFF method? I've read the FAQ but I've
: |>also been told that this is a very dangerous method and outlawed in most
: |>states. Is it? At which sites can I do this AFF method if it isn't?
: |>I'm looking for dropzones in the Fargo (ND) area, specifically Sauk Centre.
: |>
: Yikes!  Who gave you that sort of nonsense misinformation?
: 
: The safety record of AFF is extremely good, and as a training method it
: seems to work quite well.  I've never heard of it being outlawed anywhere
: (except perhaps Britain, but then again don't they still require first
: jumps to be made with rounds there?).  Having gone through it myself
: 1.5 years ago, I'd definitely recommend it to anyone.

Well, I didn't do the AFF course, but I do jump here in the UK. In short, No
- they don't require you to do the first jump on a round. But the vast
majority do, I certainly did. Yes, they do have AFF courses here. The
problem is that a round static line course costs about $(pound)80, whereas
AFF is presented as a complete package (unless you need more than 10 jumps!)
costing $1400. As most first-timers are students on a grant, or other
lower-class ( :-) people, not a lot of people go for the AFF course. So why
do they still jump rounds here? Well, I was told that a lot of clubs bought
loadsa round canopies early in the eighties, and that they don't want to
throw away all that money. My local dropzone isn't pushing their RAPS
(square) course at all, even though they do do it.
Somebody else mentioned a retention rate of 3 in 10 for static line course.
Well, you're lucky. I happen to be chairperson of the university skydiving
club (The university insists we spell it sky-diving, by the way!). Last term
we trained about 25 people. What with the weather being the way it usually
is here in Britain, less than half of these have actually done their first
jump. And we do go down to the local dropzone each weekend. My experience
from previous years is that we'll have a retention rate of about 1 in 15.
Sigh.

Incidentally, just to make the Yanks feel even happier;
a 10,000' feet costs me $17.5 (that's ~26? in US$). And I'm C-license with
my own kit, spotting, jumpmastering etc.

Anyway, somebody is apparently paying thousands of money (insert your
favourite currency) for me to post this, so I'd better be brief. Oops. Too
late?

If any other UK students are reading this, see you at Langar 6-7th Feb!

Radar
Organization: Sponsored account, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:47:07 -0500 
From: "Rudolph R. Zung" <ru+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Skyblazin

Anyone when is the repeat telecast on ESPN? I kind of missed it when I got
called out all of a sudden by the local Search and Rescue group to look for
a down plane and didn't have chance (totally forgot in my hurry to get out
of my apartment) to set the VCR.

--
...Ru     Names and places have been identified to protect the anonymous.
   mcmxcIII
   Make the world a better place.
   Give the gift of kindness.


InterNet: ru+@cmu.edu          BITnet  : rz02+@andrew 
UUCP    : ...!{ucbvax, harvard}!andrew.cmu.edu!rz02+         
R Zung \ (412) 681-6468 \ CMU Box 231 \ Pittsburgh PA 15213
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org!SKYDIVE (SKYDIVE)
Subject: Re: Thoughts concerning clouds
X-Mailer: mailout v1.24 released
Originator: uucp@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
Return-Path: <ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG!SKYDIVE>
To: skydive@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:57:23 GMT

Reply-to: Ed@p7.f68.n110.z1.fidonet.org (Ed)
Fido-To: romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu!frc2.frc.ri.cm

> From: romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu!FRC2.FRC.RI.CMU.EDU!belboz (Barry Brumitt)
> beutel@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Jim Beutel) writes:
> My second jump however was from 10,000. The ceiling was still near
> 5000, although spotty. On the way up between 5000 and 8000 we could
> see the target from time to time. After 8500 we were completely socked
> in.
> At this point, I was determined NOT to leave the aircraft..... The
> pilot
> circled several times looking for position. I was going single but
> following out a high time three way. After several minutes at
> altitude,
> a spot was made. The three way exited. I did actually follow.
> I quess my question would be..: What do the big guys (and gals) say..?
> Would you have exited? Should it be avoided? Do it with a good spot?
 
 
> Me, I'd'a gone... but I wouldn't've if I'd been at a DZ with lotsa
> trees and bad areas, or if there wasn't a GPS/Loran spot, or if I knew
> IFR traffic came through often...
> Risk Assesment, Risk Evaluation. Assess the risks. Evaluate if you're
> willing to take them.
> Barry
 
Totally agree, (Also with Mary Haskett's Statement.)  Ed.
> pps. Seems you should have talked those "high-time three-way folks
> into jumping with you... pretty clique-y of them! But, there may be
> other circumstances of which I am not aware.
 
They may have been working on something, maybe not.  I've seen people
(mostly low-timers) who expect to be asked to jump with a group, and are
offended if they are not --dismissing the group as "Sky-Gods" to console
their egos.  I've found that in alot of cases, that if you are willing to
show a LITTLE humility, DESIRE to LEARN, and take constructive critisism,
most high-timers are willing to include you on the jump.    If you want
to learn good RW skills, you need to be in a learning mode.   But as
Barry said, there may be others circustances of which I'm not aware.
   Blue Skies to yous guys   DE

--- DB 1.52/000077
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: D.E.'s Skydiving Dungeon (1:110/68.7)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
From: dan@triage.UUCP (Mr. Dive OuttaDa Skyy)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: CLOUDS, CLOUDS, CLOUDS.
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:16:30 GMT
Organization: Triage Corp

In article <4fLQPcG00WB6IG0lYX@andrew.cmu.edu> "Danny A. Rossi" <dr25+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>Wine, wine, wine, that's all you sighted skydivers do, "I want to see the 
>ground," "it's too dark, it's to cloudy".  Sheesh! just do what I do, 
>close your eyes and go.  (GRIN).
>
>I was on one jump last season that was quite humorous.  I hopped on a Cessna 
>load that was headed for 9,500, I planned on leaving at 6,500.  When we got to 
>6,500 my buddy told me "no way".  We continued climbing until we got to about
>10,500.  I didn't want to jump solo by this point so we decided to turn their 
>three-way into a four-way.  On the first pass my friend said, "we got a 75 
>percent chance of hitting the D.Z.", I gave him the OK, but he decided to take 
>it around again.  On the second pass he said, "95 percent", I said, "let's go".
>He didn't tell me that the other two jumpers were not as sure and they weren't 
>going to jump, but they did end up following us out.  We were in clouds the 
>entire free-fall.
>
>Ignorance is bliss, I certainly wasn't worried when we came through the bottom
>of the clouds, but everyone I was with saw we weren't anywhere near the D.Z.
>My buddy wanted to be able to talk me down under canopy so he dumped right with
>me.  I warned him never to do that again, I kicked his canopy as I was reaching 
>for my toggles.  Next thing I know my radio man is saying, "listen to Don", 
>that's when I knew landing on the D.Z was not something I could expect on this
>jump. 
>
>Punching clouds is definitely not the brightest thing to do, but then again, 
>most people don't believe that skydiving is the brightest thing to do either.
>
>Everybody has to make their own decisions, just try to use a little common 
>sense.
>
>Flare when you hear the crickets.
>
>Dan Rossi B-#14030


Ignorance can kill you too.
DANS
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org!SKYDIVE (SKYDIVE)
Subject: Your Company
X-Mailer: mailout v1.24 released
Originator: uucp@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
Return-Path: <ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG!SKYDIVE>
To: skydive@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:56:28 GMT

Reply-to: Rich.Greenwood@p0.f3027.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Rich Greenwood)
Fido-To: romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu!vti.com!mark

mark,
I noticed you work for the Virtual Corp. Is that the software company that
makes "Virtus Walk Thru". 

Rich Greenwood
A-2552

... He who hesitates shall inherit the earth.
--- GEcho 1.00
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: Aviator's Haven >>> Oklahoma City, (405)-685-6960 (1:147/3027.0)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
From: bleck@mobot.ai.mit.edu (Olaf Bleck)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Rename rec.skydiving to rec.outdoors.skydiving
Date: 25 Jan 1993 23:00:22 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bleck@ai.mit.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: mobot.ai.mit.edu

In article <RIGG.93Jan25114219@valeron.che.wisc.edu>, rigg@valeron.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg) writes:
|> Recently, an official RFD (Request For Discussion) was posted to
|> several group suggesting that several groups be moved to the
|> rec.outdoors. hierarchy which currently contains just
|> rec.outdoors.fishing.
|> 
|> If you have any comments about renaming this group, please post them
|> to news.groups.  Followups to this group and email will not be
|> considered.  The guidelines state that the official discussion must
|> take place in news.groups.


Boy, I wish I had time to worry about things like this...!
-Olaf
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org!SKYDIVE (SKYDIVE)
Subject: Re: Rumour that Piras bounced apparently true / CYPRES
X-Mailer: mailout v1.24 released
Originator: uucp@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
Return-Path: <ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG!SKYDIVE>
To: skydive@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 14:00:45 GMT

Reply-to: Ed@p7.f68.n110.z1.fidonet.org (Ed)
Fido-To: romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu!bl.applicon.sl

> From: romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu!bl.applicon.slb.com!shibuya (Hiroto Shibuya)
> For me, it was impossible to imagine that the jumper of his experience
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> can get killed by premature deployment of the member of his own
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> skydive which is as small as 4 way.  If it is like in the middle of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 100 way, that's one thing.  If it is from other group, who left plane
> My reasoning would be that to get killed directly by hitting
> prematurely opening canopy, somebody have to open right below you,
> with enough distance that there will be enough difference of speed to
> impact.  How could a guy with 13000 jumps would put himself in that
> kind of situation in 4way?
 
   While Jumpmastering "One on Ones" I've had two students in separate
situations who, at breakoff, turned and tracked in a 180'loop approaching a
point directly underneath me while waving off. I'd been holding my position
to eval thier TTLWP Sequence & watched it coming, so it wasn't too hard
to get out of the way.  But it happens very fast. Now I backslide out hard
@ Break Off, gives me even more time to react & I can still get a real good
veiw of the student.              Ed.

--- DB 1.52/000077
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: D.E.'s Skydiving Dungeon (1:110/68.7)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13