From: marcmil@microsoft.com (Marc MILANINI)
Subject: Re: Germanya...
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:03:47 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

First, I would like to apologize if any of you has been offended by my
first message. My purpose was not to put shame on the Turkish people,
but to question the policy of the Turkish government towards the Kurds.

In article <1992Apr8.053826.15699@eecs.nwu.edu> toroslu@eecs.nwu.edu (Ismail H. Toroslu) writes:
>It is not the weapons my friend. They want to dictate on every affair
>of Turkey and so many other countries in the world. For example
>Germans were telling Turkey about Kurdish self determination rights and
>autonomous Kurdish regions. It is none of their business. Kurds in

The simple fact that there is a Kurdish people raises the problem of its
self-determination. If Turkiye is not aware of that, it needs to
be reminded of it.

>Turkey are Turkish citizens and they have all the rights of any
>democratic country in the world. So, if we have a problem, we will
>solve it. The Turkish and Kurdish people of Turkey will decide
>on their future, not the Germans or other western people.

I am sorry, but the Turkish people has nothing to say about the
will of the Kurds. If a majority of people living in a certain area
declares itself in favour of independence, then they must be freed.

>How do you now that i don't know what i am talking about? Of course
>I know more than you what is going on in Turkey. It is my country
>man. I was born there, and lived there. All my family and friends live
>in every part of my country. How long have you lived in Turkey?

I meant that I know better than you what is happening in France. Of
course, you know better than me what is happening in Turkiye.
Nevertheless, I have the right to protest if I think that something
wrong is happening in your country. I agree that not everything is
going fine in Corsica or in the Pays Basque, but at least the
French Army is not bombing those areas.
 
>Even have you ever met a Turk or Kurd? You western people all alike.
>You are superiors probably, you know everything better than us, non-westerns.

No, we are not, no we don't. Do we need to be superior to prevent you
from committing atrocities ?

>You don't know bir bok and when you talk mangalda kul birakmiyorsunuz. Who told
>you about bombing "entire population"? Do you have excellent
>sources in Sirnak? Maybe you were visiting Cizre last month ha?

My words "bombing an entire population were far too strong. Do you agree
that the Turkish Army is bombing areas where civilians (Turkish citizens)
are living ?

>I am not talking about just the weapons. They can do with their weapons 
>whatever they want. I am talking about their interfering to another
>country's internal affairs. Germany is trying to be the boss over
>Eastern Europa and ex-communist countries. Turkey is a rival country
>for them. They will be very happy seeing Turkey with a lot trouble
>so they will have more advantage. It is not becouse they love Kurds.

Do you seriously believe that Turkiye can be a rival for Germany,
as far as relations with former communist countries are concerned
(no offense intended) ? Can you explain how the fact of having more
weapons is useful to increase one's influence ? Maybe you have facts
that prove that Germany is actually trying to weaken your country.
In that case, could you please share them with us ?

>They gave all the weapons and even chemical gas to Mr. Saddam to
>kill the Kurds, and they said nothing when he was killing innocent
>Kurdish population of Iraq.

It was a German firm that provided Iraq with chemical weapons,
not the German government. Leaving Saddam in power was a 
terrible mistake. Would you like us not to try to correct
our mistakes ? That's what Germany is doing now.

>Those democracies are not just protesting other countries' human right
>violations or trying to prevent it. They are doing whatever is
>good for them. Why do you think your lovely democracy Germany is
>pouring tens of billions of dollars to Russians but not giving even
>one percent of it to the poor and starving people of Africa? Because
>they cannot get anything out of it. Because the Africans are no threat
>to them. Because they are not a big market either. 

Germany is probably not acting only for humanatarian reasons there.
Nobody said that Germany was always disinterested. In your case,
they could make cheap money by selling arms to Turkiye. They refused
to do so. Why ?

>The Kurds in Turkey are not bombed or killed or harmed anyway by
>government. The terorists (PKK) are bombed and killed and destroyed

What is a difference between a civilian and a terrorist ? How do the
bombs make it ?

>by the Turkish army. And if they continue their terrorist actions
>they will be bombed and killed and destroyed. Are you against this? Why?

Yes, I am. How many of those terrorists (the ones that the Turkish Air 
Force is bombing) have been trialed ? Who decided that they were
terrorists ? Who decided that they should be put to death ?
Are you sure that the Kurdish population is not supporting them ?
If they find support among the civilians, then they are no longer
terrorists, right ? If not, it should be easy to convince the
civilians to help find them.

>>Probably, they prefer to have their hands dirty rather than bloody...
>
>We know whose hands more bloody than whose. 

I wish you really would.

>Hakki

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=---K8>>@@@@@@@@ Marc Milanini @@@@ marcmil@microsoft.com @@@@%%