HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Subject: Re: Child abuse ordered by G-d - NOT!
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 01:08:54 GMT

jmunch@hertz.elee.calpoly.edu quotes  Deuteronomy 21:18-21

>>    If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son ...

We have here a good lesson as to the pitfalls of 
taking the Bible literally.  Religious Jews (the only
ones who would ever be concerned about implementing
such a law as this) have always taken this passage
as figurative hyperbole.

Unless there were (G-d forbid) a society of Jews who
took this passage literally and misunderstood it to
mean that G-d ordered them to kill rebellious children,
then you may raise a fuss.  The reality is that no
such society exists.

This law is discussed extensively in Jewish literature,
particularly the Talmud, Sanhedrin 68b.  It quotes
the Mishna which is codified from Oral Law, which
Jews (particularly Orthodox) believe to have _always_
coexisted with the written law, similar to the way 
a professor's lecture coexists with his or her lecture notes
and viewgraphs.

Among the conditions this "rebellious son" must satisfy
* Male
* Age > 13
* Both parents alive
* Neither parent may be an amputee, deaf, dumb, blind or lame
* Both parents must be of the same appearance, voice, and height
* The son must have 
    - stolen meat and a particular type of wine
         - from his father's house
    - consumed it (a minimum amount)
         - in the presence of worthless people
         - but not at a religious feast
* Both parents must want this punishment to take place
* The first offense must have been committed, followed
  by conviction (if found guilty), followed by lashes
  and admonition by a court of three 
* After conviction of a second offense, the original three
  must be present in order to sentence the son.
* etc...

This is highly oversimplified.  Because of all these
restrictions, many commentators have said that the
law exists only to discourage this type of rebelliousness,
or just as an exercise in learning something for the
sake of the learning itself, since it could never happen
in reality.

 ( Another example of the pitfalls of literal interpretation is
   "Eye for an eye" which always meant "compensate the
   injured party for the value of his lost eye," not
   to gouge out the perpetrator's eye, as Gandhi 
   completely misunderstood.  )

R


-- 
--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig)
Subject: Re: JESUS DIED AND IS RISEN (Re: Jesus Has Died)
Organization: Starfleet Headquarters: San Francisco
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 06:06:11 GMT

af664@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank DeCenso, Jr.) writes:
>
>JESUS HAS RISEN!!!!
> 
>MATTHEW 28:1-10 "Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of
>the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary
>came to see the tomb. And behold, ...


SANTA CLAUS IS COMING TO TOWN!!!!

He knows when you've been sleeping,
He knows when you're awake...


-- 
_/_/_/  Brian Kendig                             Je ne suis fait comme aucun
/_/_/  bskendig@netcom.com                de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire
_/_/                            n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent.
  /  Nolite te bastardes     Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre.
 /    carborundorum.                                             -- Rousseau
From: agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Anthony Rose ANSWERING ------------->   Gordon
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:00:32 GMT
Reply-To: agr00@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (TONY ROSE)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Gordon:

It just hit me what you said earlier in one of your post.  You stated
that you didn't believe in the "One True Church" as I said the LDS Church
claims.

I am curious as to why you believe this way.  I mean, isn't the basis of
the existance of the LDS church that there was a complete apostacy in all
other churches/religions?

Your Scripture and cannon states that the Mormon people are "the only
true and living Church upon the face of the whole earth" (D&C 1:30).

Why is it that you don't believe this part of your Scriptuire?  Are there
any other parts you don't believe?
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Subject: Re: Criticism:  "There's no logic in Christianity"
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United
	<SCG.92Dec30222227@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
	<ksand-040193164146@wintermute.apple.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 04:47:31 GMT

ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik ) writes:

>I'm trying to push for the important issue that how could we judge
>that something has a logical element, when we can't even agree upon
>the premises.

you don't have to even know the truth value of the premises of an
argument to discuss its logical validity.

if i understand you correctly, this is what you're talking about when
you are talking about 'logical elements'.
--
The Bible is not my book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could never
give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
	-- Abraham Lincoln
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: The 'wave-collapse' of logical reasoning
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:25:11 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)

In article <1icicrINNajm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ses2@po.CWRU.Edu (S. E.
Stansfield) wrote:
> In a previous article, arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) says:
> >Whether or not something is logical has nothing to do with whether its
> >premises are universal knowledge, or even whether its premises are true.
 
> Absolutely.  Bertrand Russell once proved using correct logic the
> statement:  If 1+1=3 then I am the pope.  The logic is correct but the
> premise is false.  His point was that from a false premise, you can prove
> anything you want using correct logic.

OK, my point is that we all agree what 1 is, and what a pope is, right?
So the logical conclusion could be made. But if I say that no, pope
is an alien being from planet XYZ that has fifteen brains and he only
uses complex numbers, the logical conclusion drawn is not that evident.

I think I'm using the wrong 'philosophical names' for various constructs,
and that's maybe the problem we are having concerning information exchange.
Time to go to the library and sort out all the possible namings :-).

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: Tim.ONeill@utas.edu.au (Tim O'Neill)
Subject: Re: Jesus Said He is the Almighty God
Organization: University of Tasmania (Australia)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:23:57 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.224211.17329@news.ysu.edu>, af664@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank DeCenso, Jr.) writes:
> 
> 
> Very interesting opinions. When you want to discuss Scripture, we'll begin.
> -- 
> Frank

Is this in response to my reply Frank?
If so, I'll discuss scripture (and history, and archaeology, and palaeology
and a great deal besides) anytime you want. My E-Mail address is
Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au : Get in touch sometime.
Cheers

Tim O'Neill
Tasmanian Devil
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:6053 alt.alien.visitors:9731 sci.skeptic:22270
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 01:56:10 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Dear Folks: Please ignore the dribbless of my computer at the end.
It must have the flue.
John Winston.
From: Seth.Morris@launchpad.unc.edu (Seth Morris)
Subject: Re: Earth Changes Books
Summary: _The Tao of Physics_
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 23:40:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.023011.2587@merrimack.edu> nin15b63@merrimack.edu (The Wolf) writes:
>> For some interesting reading, I've enjoyed:
>> "The Tao of Physics"	by ??don't recall
>> "Life After Life"	by ??don't recall

 _The Tao of Physics_ is by Fritjoff Capra,I believe, but I'm doing this off the
top of my head (my copy was "borrowed" for a few years a whhile back, sigh) and
I'm certain I mispelled it.

 Great book, though. Made for a great two hour report in high school.

Seth.


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery)
Subject: Re: preparing for the changes
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:47:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.095421.1@firnvx.firn.edu> waddell@firnvx.firn.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec27.042900.2531@merrimack.edu>, 
>   nin15b63@merrimack.edu (The Wolf) writes:
>> I was wondering what you all are doing to prepare for physical survival during
>> the earth changes.
>> -- 
>
>I am trying to remember to keep that inner communication open by "meditating"
>regularly.

[...]

>Edgar Cayce had advised people to meditate so that their body could be 
>"spiritualized", thereby enabling it to survive the earth's transformation.
>
>Either way I think meditating is the single most important preparation for 
>the coming earth changes. 
>
>-- 
>
>Have fun!
>
>   =-Kathy->                                   waddell@firnvx.firn.edu

What are these coming earth changes you all are referring to?
Why would one need to worry about physically surviving?
How does meditating supossedly protect you?


-- 
John Emery		"You say we've risen to a new age of light.
emery@tc.fluke.COM       You're telling me what used to be wrong
			 is now right."
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:6009 alt.alien.visitors:9618 sci.skeptic:22059
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Satans E-mail.
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 02:28:16 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Dear Folks: All is not lost. I am now getting some more E-mail from
Satan. Here is what he says to me, Remember how ever silent I am, I 
will always be watching over you my child. It's good to know that 
someone down there is watching under me. I do believe that Doug is
over stretching the truth a little also but I appreciate his thoughts.
John Winston. I have asked Satan for permission to post his E-mail 
address so people can talk to him. Standby for his return approval.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff)
Subject: Re: Dorn's Undergroud Cavern.
Organization: BeHereNow
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:40:38 GMT

In article <CHRISB.93Jan12124752@lynx.ps.uci.edu> chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris Barrus) writes:
>

>No more than any other area.  I've been camping and hiking around in the
>Mojave for 11 years and haven't seen anything that I would consider to be
>"unidentified."  Bear in mind also that the 29 Palms Marine Station, Ft. Irwin,
>China Lake Naval Station, and Nellis AFB are all in the area and conduct
>weapons testing.


Bear in mind that China Lake and Nellis are full of underground bases that
local construction workers are reporting sightings of aliens working with
scientists at the lower levels.

Source: 2020 Group, Michael Lindemann - Several eyewitness reports were
broadcast (the individuals themselves were taped) on KPFA Berkeley radio
station.

jeff-



Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:6043 alt.alien.visitors:9705 sci.skeptic:22237
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Leps and UFOs.
Date: Sat,  9 Jan 93 01:09:04 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

1>+8
Subject: Leprechauns and 
UFOs.
  Today I went to see the movie called Leprechaun. I think that the 
show is pretty good if you like to be scared and like horror shows.
As far as being very authenic I believe that it missed the mark by a l
long shot. 
    It seems that we always like to make fun of our friends the Leprechauns. 
When  I first got into this work it was my good pleasure to be taken on a 
field trip by a very learned man. We went down the Niles Canyon Road 
near Fremont, Calif  in an easternly direction till we nearly got to the 
second bridge overpass.  At a place called the Golder Gate Trinity Baptist 
Church you will find a steel cyclone fence that surrounds the property. As 
you turn to the left up the road that goes to Harward (north), on the fence 
and upon the oak trees he said that people often see Leprechauns. 
Sometimes only psychic people can see them but at other times everybody 
can see them. They often just appear as a light.
  I didn't think about this much until later I took a young man up there with 
me who wanted to come in contact with the space people. As we were 
going up the road in a northern direction we stopped and he was worked 
on by the space people. He felt like someone was polking him with a knife 
and he jumped around like a person having an experiece in a certain type 
of church. After this all happened he was able to see the Leprechauns and 
we went through all sorts of experiences trying to get a picture of them, even 
on my shoulder. I never could see them. We used all sorts of film inclulding 
black and white, color and infra red to no avail.
  On another trip into the area he is taken over by the space people from the 
Pleiades and they talked through him and he tallked to us with the space 
people talking though him. The just said something to the effect they were 
the people from the Pleiades and they were here to help us. We then went 
over to the San Andreas Resurvoir and saw two UFOs cruising around 
underwater with their lights on like a couple of submarines. Everybody in 
our group of 4 people say that.  We also saw certain areas where a lot of 
Leprechauns stayed around groups of trees and rocks. He was also able 
to see UFO places when the UFOs stayed. I later brought in another person 
who said the same thing of the same areas,.
  So I think it is a good things to know about our friends the Leprechauns 
and also fairies.
John Winston.

 





f 4 people say that.  We also saw certain areas where a lot of 
Leprech8w8
B f+
Y#U%
j3JJg6i9Q
A	
	:	)+.0
02468:A	
	
:	)+.0
0Roman 10cpill we nearly got to the 
second bridge overpass.  At a place called the Golder Gate Trinity Baptist 
Church
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:6076 alt.alien.visitors:9796 sci.skeptic:22357
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Cadiz Part 2.
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 02:35:11 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Dear Folks: It seems like my computer has the dribbles again. Jeff and 
I live close together and I was just over at his house last night.
He is a well informed young gentleman.
John Winston.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:5999 alt.alien.visitors:9577 alt.religion.kibology:5634
From: wurfa8v@nerix.nerdc.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: preparing for the changes
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:12:52 GMT
Organization: State University System of Florida

In response to The Wolf's original post about preparations -

I bought a portable water filter for my husband and son for backpacking with
the Boy Scouts with the thought that if there was a catastrofy we could use it.

It filters out bacteria, protozoa, etc and can be used when traveling in
foriegn countries to make the local water safe to drink.

P.S.  The post of Chapter 11 of the Abraham material was interesting.

Have fun!

   =-Kathy->                                         waddell@firnvx.firn.edu
From: radams@cerritos.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Books on Yogay
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:47:22 PST
Organization: Cerritos College, Norwalk CA

In article <1993Jan08.222143.26033@crash>, 
classics@crash.cts.com (Baruch Schwartz) writes:

> 6. Biography of a Yogi. The biography of Satyananda, Sriyukteswar's chief 
> monastic disciple in the West. The book contains many stories about mystic 
> saints of India, as related directly to the author, who spent 20 years learning 
> the secret intricasies of yoga from Satyananda.

Correction. The chief disciple of Sri Yukteswar was Paramahansa Yogananda
(west or east, north or south).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Roger Adams
	radams@cerritos.edu               To those in whom love dwells,
	Cerritos College                  the whole world is one family.
	11110 Alondra Blvd                             A Hindu Proverb
        Norwalk, California 90650
	USA        		          293 Dwapara :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:6078 alt.alien.visitors:9803
From: waddell@firnvx.firn.edu
Subject: Re: preparing for the changes
Organization: Florida State University
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:23:39 EST

In article <1993Jan5.164742.5522@tc.fluke.COM>, emery@tc.fluke.COM 
   (John Emery) writes:
> In article <1992Dec27.095421.1@firnvx.firn.edu> waddell@firnvx.firn.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Dec27.042900.2531@merrimack.edu>, 
>>   nin15b63@merrimack.edu (The Wolf) writes:
>>> I was wondering what you all are doing to prepare for physical survival during
>>> the earth changes.
>>> -- 
>>
>>I am trying to remember to keep that inner communication open by "meditating"
>>regularly.
> 
> [...]
> 
>>Edgar Cayce had advised people to meditate so that their body could be 
>>"spiritualized", thereby enabling it to survive the earth's transformation.
>>
>>Either way I think meditating is the single most important preparation for 
>>the coming earth changes. 
>>
> 
> What are these coming earth changes you all are referring to?
> Why would one need to worry about physically surviving?
> How does meditating supossedly protect you?
> 

I think there will be a series of cataclysmic events - earthquakes, shift
of the poles, etc - ( also see Revelations in the Bible ) that will occur
before the earth's transformation.  I'm not sure what will happen but I
think that the earth will not be habitable at the current physical level but
will transform to a higher level (within the physical level).  Those 
beings that can maintain their consciousness at this higher level will be 
able to travel at will but those who need the support of others will be 
limited to "protected" areas until they too can maintain at the higher
level.  The plants and animals whose spiritual guardians are able, and
wish to, will continue to exist at this higher level. 

Edgar Cayce had said that in order to survive the transformation each
cell of the body must be spiritualized by meditation.  He said that
when the time comes one must be ready to go to the "top of your house"
- raise your consciouness to the chakra at the top of the head.

I am not sure about all of this, but even if there is just a series
of cataclysmic events then each of us can be forwarned by paying
attention to that inner guidence.  Meditation can help one become
aware of that inner communication.
    
-- 

Have fun!

   =-Kathy->                                   waddell@firnvx.firn.edu
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:6007 alt.alien.visitors:9608 sci.skeptic:22041
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Cadiz Part 2.
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 93 02:19:44 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <72999@cup.portal.com>

Dear Folks: Soon I will try to put down some information about
Mitchell Caverns and Mr. Dorn's underground river that is found
near Cadiz, Calif. in the same general area where the Underground
City is exactly under Cima, Calif.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: wagnerp@cuug.ab.ca (Paul Wagner)
Subject: Janexx
Organization: Calgary UNIX Users' Group
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:31:54 GMT

I am wondering whether anyone on this list might be familiar
with the name "Janexx".  Recently one of my students confided
in me that she was practising what amounted to chaneling and
automatic writing.  Apparently, the spirit involved named
him/herself as Janexx.  Has anyone ever encountered this name
before? Curious.  Paul Wagner  wagnerp@cuug.ab.ca





Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: cooper@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (Ralph 'Hairy' Moonen)
Subject: Re: Satans E-mail.
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 12:08:23 GMT

In article <72998@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear Folks: All is not lost. I am now getting some more E-mail from
> Satan. Here is what he says to me, Remember how ever silent I am, I 
> will always be watching over you my child. It's good to know that 
> someone down there is watching under me. I do believe that Doug is
> over stretching the truth a little also but I appreciate his thoughts.
> John Winston. I have asked Satan for permission to post his E-mail 
> address so people can talk to him. Standby for his return approval.


Hi John,

Untill you post his address, could you please forward the following letter 
to him? I am really inteerested in this!


[Letter to forward follows]

-----------------

Dear Satan,

As I have heard, You have chosen at last to speak to us through channels we
can receive easily here on the surface. I would like to know a couple of 
things about your carreer as Prince of Darkness. Would your Lowness be so
kind to answer these for me? 
First of all, are you a relative of The Fresh Prince of Bell-Air?
How is Beelzebub doing these days? But more importantly, how do I go
around embarking on a carreer similar to yours? Don't get me wrong here,
your Unholyness, I don't mean to take over your place as Master of Darkness,
allthough it could be fun. Are there alot of virgins in Hell? 
Also, I read in a scientific book, that Hell actually is a lot cooler than
heaven. Is this true? I am a certified heating-technician, so if you need
any help whatsoever, I would be pleased to help you.

Yours, (well, figuratively speaking)

	--Cooper
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: jethro@netcom.com (Jeffery Tye)
Subject: Re: Abraham on the earth changes (Long)
Organization: Beyond Your Limits
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 03:09:31 GMT

In article <C0Ft81.E6G@panix.com> moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz) writes:
>
>
>What kind of person is Esther Hicks?  Is she a person of
>good character?  Is she kind?  Are her values to be repsected?  Does she
>have a family?  What can you tell us about her that will help us know
>whether she and "Abraham" are to be repsected and trusted?

I have met Esther Hicks and have seen her channel Abraham. I have the
highest respect for her and her intentions. As for "Abraham," they are
among the highest and clearest teachers I have met. They also have an
easy style and a great sense of humor. The processes they offer are
very powerful and effective.

Get the book and check it out!

Namaste,
Jeffery

-- 
=====================================================================
``You are the passage through which time flows. You are the emptiness
that holds all space. You are the center that is everywhere, turning
on itself in an endless dance of ecstasy.'' -- Judith Whitman-Small
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:6044 alt.alien.visitors:9707