From: bkannan@ho10.eng.ua.edu (Balaji Kannan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Dr. Jayaraman's article
Date: 22 Jan 1993 10:53:33 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


>SCIENCE AND SECULARISM
[..]
>the critical rational spirit essential to science associated with
>calls to regain the glory of a mythical past. Nazism dealt a critical
>blow to the exact sciences in Germany, where the efforts to eradicate

     Is this true?? Did Nazism drive out science from Germany?
     Wasn't Germany at the pinnacle of 'scientific glory' under Nazi
     Germany? Or did Germany take to witchcraft under Hitler? Curious. 

>``Jewish science" were particularly virulent. Spanish society after

     Virulent and extremely offensive they were. But that is a
     different matter [racially motivated]. This guy conveniently
     ignores the political realities of the sub-continent and is
     just hell-bent on pummelling religious movements with lousy
     comparisons.

>the Moors left, dominated by a rigid Catholic Church, lagged behind
>the Moors left, dominated by a rigid Catholic Church, lagged behind
>the rest of Europe for centuries. Where, in contrast, social changes
>led to the promotion and development of this critical spirit (for
>instance, the October Revolution that led to the founding of the
>Soviet Union), a tremendous leap forward in science and technology


     true! but, overlooks Soviet-style fundamentalism here.....
     That was worse than Khomeini's.

>became possible.  None of the countries where fundamentalism holds
>sway in the developing world today are recognised as making rapid
>strides in science and technology.

     But neither has any country in the world 'developed' today
     by denying religion/spirit a role in national affairs.
     Denying the 'spirit' while overemphasizing the 'material'
     has had its share of ugliness. No better example than
     the Soviet Union. While J's passionate appeal for recourse
     to science and technology for solving India's problems of
     poverty and illiteracy rings a very concordant note, his
     pushing thru the 'science - the be all and  end all' theme
     very adroitly, [for whatever reason :-)] deserves catcalls
     :-) IMO.

[...]

>How does Hindutva stand in relation to science and technology in
>India?  We have argued above that experience shows that all
>fundamentalism is basically inimical to scientific advance.  Science
>and fundamentalism cannot coexist. There is not a single example in

   But 'scientists' and fundamentalism can.
   There are a whole bunch of non-religious butchers/fundamentalists
   [some at the helm of national affairs] around the globe whose
   claim to rational spirit and critical enquiry have been/is as
   grandiose as Jayaraman's.

[..]

>Hindutva archaeology is science fraud and mob vandalism, aided by a
>stable of ``experts" to lend a veneer of academic respectability.

  Prejudges hindutva archaeology in the true secular scientifc
  tradition.... if you are so darned sure that religion has
  a perverse influence on the individual then you are bound to
  disbelieve a scientist with a saffron robe. 

[...]

>incident assumes even more menacing overtones. More shocking is the
>case of a physicist at the Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur, who
>went to Ayodhya as a kar sevak in December 1992 and returned, with a
>piece of the rubble, to resume his duties in the service of science at
>one of India's S\&T institutions.

  So??
  this when Hindutva science hasn't yet permeated the corridors
  of IIT's!! An anti-religious creep will try not to pick holes in
  what the physicist has done as a physicist rather wud keep track of
  what the physicist eats, how he dresses, where he spends his night..
  ... 


>What does a serious and genuine commitment to science and technology
>mean in the current context? In a perceptive essay Jacob Bronowski
>(Bronowski, 1977) argues that science is not a value-neutral human
>activity. ``The activity of science is directed to seek the truth
>(about the material world), and it is judged by the criterion of being
>true to facts. We can practice science only if we value the truth"
>(Bronowski, 1977, p.212).  Without truth, science is not possible.
>This truth is not immutable for we find descriptions of nature only up
>to a certain coarseness, a certain tolerance. And this in turn implies
>that science values dissent, for without dissent there would be no
>challenge of the established concepts and no progress. And the right
>to dissent needs to be safe guarded. Science values independence of
>thought because it is a necessary condition of dissent and originality
>because it is the tool with which the new is discovered. These values
>are essential to modern science and science needs a society that
>recognises these as social values. The right of free and critical
>enquiry that is implied by these values is one of the abiding things
>that science has given to society.

   This one was neat :-) As though science were denied all these credits!

   If only J had condemned religious fundamentalism per se without so much
   as telling us that fundamentalism is a preserve of religion and
   science/critical thinking can flourish only by negating 'spiritual'
   enquiry by a nation's people then he wd have sounded more persuasive.
   He has stopped short of telling us that the BJP wud take us back to
   a mythical period of chariots, bows, arrows etc :-) While there is
   little doubt that the VHP/RSS/BJP is having some fun :-) seeing science
   and technology in some of ancient Hindu philosophy/culture :-) where
   there isn't any, to conclude from that BJP rule = Rama Rajya/Gokulam
   /Cows/flying monkeys ........ is a surefire sign of imagination run 
   amuck. [not that the Mahants are not interested in such ;-)]
   
bk