From: 160955r@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: A Quick Proof
Date: 11 Apr 92 08:35:26 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

>In <1992Apr9.041544.6250@ncsu.edu> dsh@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>
>
>>Premise A: All human life should have the right to determine its own
>>           set of morals, and no human life should physically force its 
>>           morals on others. 
>
Really? Are you prepared to let your children choose their own set of
morals? And if you are not, would you still agree that children eminen-
tly qualify as "human life" or not?

>>If you disagree with this statement, then you must agree that humans
>>can force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term. 

This is a classic non-sequitur. I can still disagree with your statement
(i.e. insist on indoctrinating my kids with what I perceive as the optimal
set of morals) and still abhorr the idea that humans can force a woman to
carry her fetus....You're really confused on this one, aren't you?

Premise B: A fetus is a human life, and therefore a fetus should have
>>           the right to determine its own set of morals. 
>
Hmmm, a 3 months fetus is human life?  Self-conscious and all that?
Able to survive anywhere else outside his mother's womb?  Well, then
sperm qualifies as well for the title of "human life". If the fetus
"only" needs 6 more month inside the womb to become a newborn, the 
isolated spermatozome "only" needs to find an egg, fecundate it, etc.,
etc. Are you prepared to argue that 90% of male teenagers regularly
engage in mass killings?

And, besides, your simple  rationale only applies to non-conflicting ins-
tances. How about the case when the pregnant woman might have such a 
set of morals that do not condemn abortion? Whose morals come first?
Hers or her fetus'? And if fetuses are "underrepresented" why should the
mother accept the arbitration of some gentleman  who sincerely be-
lieves the world was created 10,000 years ago (and, who also might be 
against transfusions during surgeries, or believe that Karol Wojtyla 
is infallible when he climbs three stairs up on a wooden stand, etc.,
etc.)

>>Follows from premise A, and the observation that a fetus is a human life. 

No, it does not! Premise A says something about all human life being
entitled to freely choose its own morals. What has this to do with
fetuses being human life? And, how many fetuses have you observed? 

>>Premise C: Abortion kills the fetus, and therefore abortion denies the 
>>           fetus its right to determine its own set of morals.
>
>>Follows from premise A and B. Too bad your premise B is simply "observa-
tion" and nothing else. And very hotly debated observation too; you see,
live creatures are self supporting; fetuses are not.
>
>
>>Conclusion: If you support premise A, then it leads to the correctness
>>of premise C, which says that abortion is wrong. If you disagree with
>>premise A, then you agree that humans can force a woman to carry a
pregnancy to term.

Both sentences in the above paragraph are FALSE. Supporting A (all human
life can freely choose its set of morals) does not lead you to C(abortion
denies fetuses=human life the right to choose morals), for the very simple
fact that the equation fetus=human life is not established in you system.
Of course, you may state fetus=human life as a personal opinion and then
deplore crime; but there is no need to you to embark on an elaborate
rigmarole just to enounce your personal opinion! As for the second sen-
tence: I can very well disgree with A :"not always all humans should be
free to choose their own morals) and still agree with:"a woman is entitled
to have an abortion whenever she wants." 

As I said before: if you have a subjective feeling against abortion, or
if you disagree with it on religious grounds just say it. You will not
need anything but your own subjectivity. Do not try disguising subjective
statements as  logical proofs instead.

Cheers!



-- 
Radu T. Tomescu at UCBerkeley
Department of Economics