HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elmore@rap.ucar.edu (Kim Elmore)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: In the "System"
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:27:14 GMT
Organization: NCAR, Research Application Program

In article <1993Jan26.185307.21971@news.media.mit.edu> ronnie@media.mit.edu (Ron Schnell) writes:

>Flying "in the system" demands far more precision, not just flying
>in IMC.  Most of my IFR flights are in VMC, and they aren't any
>different from the IMC flights, except that my eyes are open a little
>wider during IMC.  Just because the weather is nicer doesn't mean that
>the consequences are any different when you bust a clearance.  Even
>with 100 miles visibility you often can't see another plane from certain
>angles.  
>#Ron
>(ronnie@media.mit.edu)

	OK, I stand corrected on this point.  I was more concerned
about more visceral issues of survival.  I realize full well that
busting a clearance while in, say, a TCA, regardless of the met.
conditions, the rating of the pilot, the phase of the moon or level of
tides will result in vigorous and unsypathetic responses from the
Friendly Aviation Association, even if there isn't anyone else in the
TCA at the time.  And, that busting a clearnce can result in various
horrible scenarios if there *is* someone where you're not supposed to
be.

	Precision is precision, regardless of why it's required, but I
was thinking more of the kind of precision required to (literally)
survive instrument approaches in rotten weather.  That's a
life-and-death kind of precision while, much of the time, the
precision required for ATC is safety *and* bureuacratic in nature.
This in no way demeans the skill required or says that it isn't
"really" required.  But I was more concerend with the precision
required simply for the sake of survival during some instrument
operations.


			Kim Elmore, [N5OP, PP ASEL/Glider 2232456]
*  _._. __._ _.. _.._ _.. . _. ..... ___ .__. _. ..... ___ .__. _.. _.._ _._  *
*    Said by NQ0I while working on his shack:                                 *
*		"All these *wires*!  Why do they call it `wireless'!?"        *
*  _._. __._ _.. _.._ _.. . _. ..... ___ .__. _. ..... ___ .__. _.. _.._ _._  *



	
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: greg@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Greg Pisanich)
Subject: short-haul .vs. long-haul definition
Summary: need definition of short-haul .vs. long haul
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:38:12 GMT


Hi,  for a study we're doing we need to better define the terms
"short-haul" and "long-haul" aircraft.  There seem to be
several possible definitions that we've run across, but nothing
written down by the FAA.

There's short-haul defined as aircraft such as the 737 and long
haul as a 747-400.

There's long haul as flights that exceed the duty cycle of a crew
as in flights from SFO to Australia, so an additional crew has
to be carried.

Or there is the general perception that short haul defines short urban
to urban flights such as Chicago to Pittsburgh, and long haul as
flights across the country.

Who's right?

Thanks,

Greg Pisanich

greg@eos.arc.nasa.gov
From: rex@eng.umd.edu (Rex Root)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: FLORIDA FLY IN?
Date: 25 Jan 1993 16:11:50 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park
NNTP-Posting-Host: frob.eng.umd.edu

In article <1993Jan23.192203.9363@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman) writes:
>anyone know of any?
>
>I'm a student here at Florida Tech, and haven't been to a fly in since
>I left California... do we not have them in Florida or what?
>

EAA's SUN & FUN in Lakeland, FL ....... the biggest fly-in south of Oshkosh.

I'm not sure of the date .. my latest copy of Sport Aviation is sitting back 
home on the commode :-) ...... But it's comming up soon ... early spring.

	*******************************************************

   Rex L. Root Jr.  PP-ASEL-G              "I only fly inverted on purpose."   
   Electrical Engineering Dept.
   University of Maryland                               ()   ()
   College Park, Maryland  20742                  _______\___/_______
   e-mail: rex@eng.umd.edu                            |   ( )   |
   voice: (301) 405-3688                         ---------------------
   FAX: (301) 314-9281                                     T
From: gps19@herald.usask.ca (Gregory P. Siemens)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: NACA airfoil data request
Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:31:48 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: herald.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

[ Article crossposted from sci.aeronautics ]
[ Author was Gregory P. Siemens ]
[ Posted on 15 Jan 1993 17:21:28 GMT ]



C
Does anyone out there have the raw data for NACA airfoils
(or any others).  Data I need is Lift and Drag co-efficients for any
angle of attack.  I have a book with several NACA airfoils in it
(Abbott) but it contains only the graphs of this data and not the data
itself.  I need the data in a form that could be typed into a data file
or read into a program as a data file.  I would very much appreciate
this data as we are trying to compile a database of Cd/Cl vs. Angle of
attack for a large number of airfoils(not just NACA).  If you know of
someone who has this data or a way of getting it please mail me with the
info.

			Thanks in advance. 
Xref: sparky rec.aviation.misc:1450 rec.aviation.piloting:780 rec.aviation.student:587
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Subject: Re: Pilotage: Food for thought
Date: 23 Jan 93 00:04:03 GMT
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501

In article <C17pn9.Mwv@mach1.wlu.ca> eandersn@mach1.wlu.ca (Niels Ejvind Andersen) writes:
> (TLT101@psuvm.psu.edu) wrote:
>: I have to agree with filing a flight plan as being an extremely good idea.
>
>And then do what your flight plan says you're going to do, or amend the
>flight plan!  If aircraft are going to come looking for you, they are
>going to fly the same route your flight plan said you would take.  That
>won't do you any good if you went 25 miles off track just before you
>went down!

Excellent advice.  What's interesting is that on all the [protracted]
searches I've been on, we didn't have much of clue within 250 miles
let alone 25 miles.  Multiply that by a 50 mile swath and you have
a humongous^2 search area.

Hourly position reports are also a major help IF you do them
regularly.

Kerry
From: pryan@rp.CSIRO.AU (Philip Ryan)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Summary on David Clark Headsets
Keywords: headsets, mic
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:12:50 GMT
Followup-To: pryan@rp.CSIRO.AU
Organization: CSIRO Division of Radiophysics/Australia Telescope National Facility


Thanks to all those people who responded to my recent query on David Clark
headsets and mics.

Something I should have mentioned (it's in the rec.aviation.netiquette note
after all) is that I'm in Australia. This means lots of things -- notably that
I can't really accept any offers for the spare parts, and that Sportys isn't
quite as convenient to me as it is to most of you. (Strangely enough, I bought
a copy of Flying (? US) two days ago and it came with a catalogue from Sportys,
which has a section on headsets and bits and peices to upgrade DC sets.)

With your help I've managed to salvage 4 good headsets from the 8 available!
                            ;-)
Two of them go back to the guy who had the stuff in the first place (the deal
was, I produce for him two working sets and keep the rest), one goes to someone
else who works here, and I've got one nice working set with various spares!

As a number of people pointed out, it is possible to buy an upgrade to replace
the H10-30 amplified dynamic mic with an electret mic (as used in the H10-40).
A look at Sporty's catalogue shows one of these for ~$90 US. God knows what
that is in Australian pesos. I don't think I'll be buying it!

A number of people replied about testing the mic on the H10-30, and I've
reproduced Les Niles spiel below, as it seems clearest.

<from niles@parc.xerox.com>

The Dave Clark 10-30 mic is an amplified dynamic mic.  It expects a
DC bias voltage to be present, which powers the amplifier.  Without
that voltage, you probably won't get any signal.  (Originally,
aircraft mics were carbon, which requires a bias since the mic is
just a variable resistor.  So the radios are designed that way, and
new types of mics are designed accordingly.)  To test the mic, hook
a 6 to 12 volt source, in series with about a 1K ohm resistor, to
the mic.  Then look for a signal from the mic with your CRO (with
AC-coupled input, to block the bias).  I forget what the audio out
level is, I think it's on the order of tens of millivolts.  Don't
forget the resistor, or probably the bias voltage will trash the
mic.

              1K (approx)
   +---------^v^v^v----------------+--------+
   |                               |        |
-------                         -------     |
  ---   6-12V                   | mic |     |
-------                         |     |     |
  ---                           -------     +------> Signal \
   |                               |                         > to o'scope
   +-------------------------------+---------------> Gnd    /



Thanks for the help.

-- 
Phil  Ryan.                                     
CSIRO, Div of Radiophysics, Marsfield, NSW
Internet: pryan@rp.csiro.au
Phone: +61 2 868-0422 Fax: +61 2 868-0490
From: gking@zeus.calpoly.edu (Gregory S King)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Moshier Technologies?
Date: 22 Jan 93 22:04:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo


	Has anybody heard from or know anything about Moshier Co.?  I saw
an ad from them a few (or more) years back regarding light VTOL aircraft.
I was wondering if they were still around. Any response is appreciated.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregory S. King                    I    "The Quality of Life is
Aeronautical Engineering           I     Directly Proportional to
Cal Poly SLO                       I     How Fast You Drive"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: steve@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Steve Bridges)
Subject: Re: Helicopter vs. Airplane pilot seat
Organization: NCR Corporation -- Law Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:28:07 GMT

jan_cocatre-zilgien@qms1.life.uiuc.edu (J.H. Cocatre-Zilgien) writes:

>Can anyone tell me why the pilot seat is to the right in helicopters and to
>the left in airplanes?  In countries with many horses around (i.e.
>England), people drive to the left because people used to "climb" on their
>horses from the sidewalk by putting their left foot in the left stirrup and
>gracefully swishing their right leg around.  Guess they do it the same in
>the 1st Air Cav...

I too have been wondering this, and came up with some ideas --

	In the early days, due to W&B considerations, the pilot should
	sit in the right seat

	Most people are right handed, and in a helicopter, it's probably
	easier to control the cyclic with the right hand.  If the friction
	lock on the collective is set properly, you can let go (with your
	left hand) to tune radios, fold maps, set instruments, or
	whatever.

	Helo pilots wanted to be different from their fixed wing cousins
:-)

I once asked a helo pilot why, and he said "that's just the way it's done".

Steve
-- 
Steve Bridges, Programmer/Analyst| NCR - Law Department, WHQ-5
steve@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM    __| Phone:(513)-445-4486 622-4486 (VOICEplus)
Fax: 513-445-1933 622-1933 (VP)|"The airplane does not recognize attitude,
providing a maneuver is conducted at one G" -- A.M. "Tex" Johnston
From: scottcr@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: David Clark Headsets
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:37:57 CST
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

In article <1993Jan22.070307.1494@rp.CSIRO.AU>, pryan@rp.CSIRO.AU (Philip Ryan) writes:
> 
> I have through a stroke of luck come across a collection of
> David Clark H10-30 headsets in various stages of (dis)repair.
> 
> Unfortunately I don't have a tester handy to see what works on them.
> The earphones are ok, I've got a signal gen. BUT, what exactly does
> the microphone produce? I can see that it's a coil, so it's some
> voltage, which I perhaps should be able to see on a CRO, right ?
> 
> Only I don't. Just scads of 50 Hz hum. Has anyone played with looking
> at the output of one of these things before ?
> 
Two flavors exist.  The military standard is a simple low impedance
(dynamic moving coil mic.)

The civilian standard finds its roots in carbon microphones.  These
were very common and are still sold today.  The carbon microphone
requires "bias" as it is essentially a variable 150 ohm resistor.

Carbon microphones have inherently high distortion, and are subject
to aging, and thermal cycling degradation.  Most aviation mic circuits
have two ingredients: a resistor that supplies 8-16 vdc to create 
voltage divider action, and a coupling capacitor to remove the 
(bias) dc, but pass the ac (voice) on to the rest of the circuit.

These microphones typically are high-output: 500 millivolts into
200 ohms is normal.

Electret and dynamic microphones are low level; all designed for
civilian aviation have an internal amplifier circuit that emulates
carbon microphone.  Incidently, both of these types are equally
capable types: far superior to carbon.

According to the RTCA standard on which the TSO is based, (DO-170)
, the test circuit calls for a 470 ohm bias resistor, a 25 microfarad
coupling cap, into a 150 ohm load impedance.  The positive end of the
cap should meet the resistor, and does not have to be this large, as
a 1 uF will do fine.



          MIC------------------------RESISTOR------ +12 vdc
           |                       |
           |                       |
           GND                    CAP  
                                   |
                                  audio out
                          
-- 
Chris Scott,  C/E Public Radio,  Western KY Univ,  (502) 745-3834
SCOTTCR@WKUVX1.BITNET      fx off: 745-2084     fx hm: 781-1232  
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: richieb@bony1.bony.com (Richard Bielak)
Subject: Re: why IFR = "real pilot"
Organization: multi-cellular
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 14:27:50 GMT

In article <1k20e4INN44d@transfer.stratus.com> spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker) writes:
>Well, I usually don't have too many arguments with Dave T., and people on 
>the net rarely piss me off.  So today is a rare day.
>
>In article <C1ACJL.46I.2@cs.cmu.edu>, dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) writes:
>> 
>> Most laymen consider airline pilots to be "real pilots", and GA pilots to be
>> amateurs.  Spare me an indignant lecture about how *anyone* can choose to
>> adopt an attitude of professionalism; let's be realistic about how the
>> average groundhog views the skies.  We're amateurs.
>
>Well, I don't judge my engineering ability by what my aunt thinks, and I 
>don't judge my piloting ability by what groundhogs think.  The only people I
>use to judge myself are myself, my passengers, and other pilots.  If the 
>non-flying public were the appropriate way to judge piloting ability, all
>of us amateurs would be in loony bins, and those of us who did manage to fly
>and who crashed into a mountain would be perfectly justified in extorting
>millions from Piper for a defective nose-wheel brake.  

[...]

This argument reminds me of a story that Gordon Baxter told. 

Once he parked his Mooney next to a 727. There a was a pilot doing the
walk-round of the 727. Bax asked, pointing to the 727, "Are you the
copilot?". When the guys said "Yes", Bax said, pointing to his Mooney,
"Well, I'm the captain of this one".

I know I couldn't fly a 757 down an ILS to a landing. But I bet you
that there are plenty of airline pilots who would have hard time
landing a Champ in a 10 knot cross wind :-).


...richie  PP-ASEL

-- 
* Richie Bielak   (212)-815-3072   |                                          *
* Internet:       richieb@bony.com | Rule #1: Don't sweat the small stuff.    *
* Bang {uupsi,uunet}!bony1!richieb | Rule #2: It's all small stuff.           *
*    - Strictly my opinions -      |                                          *
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: alanm@askinc.ASK.COM (Alan Merrell)
Subject: Re: compiled quotes
Followup-To: compiled quotes
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: rec
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:40:39 GMT

I can attest to the one about "Caution: Driver watches airplanes"...

Driving to work one morning down hwy 237, bumper to bumper, stop
and go, I was distracted by the sound of an aiplane engine
suddenly changing pitch.  I looked up, while the truck in front
stopped...

only minor damage....
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical
Date: 26 Jan 1993 14:25:39 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: wiley.ts.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan26.132617.9556@nlm.nih.gov>, masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys) writes:
> In article <1k1jfoINN1rc@transfer.stratus.com> spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker) writes:
> >At the San Diego airport, I recently noticed a building with the words
> >"Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical" on its side.  I wasn't aware that there was
> >any "Ryan" still in business.  Can someone tell me what they do, and what
> >is the relation to the original Ryan Aircraft (or whatever the proper name 
> >would be).
> >
> That division of Teledyne makes (or until recently used to make) small
> turbine engines for cruise missiles, and a series of Ryan target drones.
> And yes, that Ryan is the same Ryan which built the Spirit of St. Louis,
> back when Lindbergh field was a patch of grass called Dutch Flats (or
> something like that).

I think I like the old Ryan better  :-{
-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com

Damn these extra lines my newsreader makes me put in

to waste space and time just so I write more lines

than I quote.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: ggr@watson.ibm.com (Greg Rose)
Subject: Re: David Clark Headsets
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:01:03 GMT
Reply-To: ggr@acci.com.au
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: Australian Computing and Communications Institute, temp IBM
Keywords: headsets

In article <1993Jan22.070307.1494@rp.CSIRO.AU> pryan@rp.CSIRO.AU (Philip Ryan) writes:
>I have through a stroke of luck come across a collection of
>David Clark H10-30 headsets in various stages of (dis)repair.
>
>Unfortunately I don't have a tester handy to see what works on them.
>The earphones are ok, I've got a signal gen. BUT, what exactly does
>the microphone produce? I can see that it's a coil, so it's some
>voltage, which I perhaps should be able to see on a CRO, right ?
>
>Only I don't. Just scads of 50 Hz hum. Has anyone played with looking
>at the output of one of these things before ?

The mic on the 10-30's is an active microphone, and modulates an input
voltage. So you need to supply it with some sort of voltage and then
watch what it does. But unfortunately, I'm unsure about just how much,
or what polarity.

Of course, the other way to test it is to plug a known good headset
into an intercom, and the one under test into another hole on the
intercom, then talk into one and listen on the other. I have such an
intercom and live in Sydney, if you can just wait till I get back from
this slushy place...

>The other thing is that in Geoff Pecks FAQ he mentions the H10-30 as
>having an inferior mike. Is it possible to replace the mike with a better
>one ? IE are the DC parts interchangable ?

I don't know about whether they are interchangeable or not. However, I also
have a 10-30 and a bunch of 10-40 clones with the electret mics, and I
don't think it is so bad...

-- 
Greg Rose, Australian Computing and Communications Institute
Reply only to ggr@acci.com.au, IBM is only temporary.
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: In the "System"
Date: 28 Jan 1993 17:31:42 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <745@oscar.UUCP> hurvitz@oscar.UUCP (Dennis Hurvitz) writes:
>ah, but they are. try getting into a tca VFR when its busy.

No sweat.
"Houston Approach, Tiger 28446 10 DME on the Navasota 135 radial, VFR at 3.5,
inbound to Ellington."
"Tiger 28446, squawk 0203 and ident, cleared through the Houston TCA, descend
and maintain 2000, fly direct downtown."

>as a seasoned instrument pilot, your initial call sez it all. in one
>sentence, you can tell them your exact position, with the info in a
>c152/a for podunk.. they'll give you the clearance, for they know you'll
>have your act together... you told them alot in those few words..
>ifr or *SYSTEM* words or phraseology !

You can tell them you have your act together even if you're a newly minted
private...I've never had a problem with the TCA around here.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    "begin 666 foo 266]U(&AA=F4@;F\@;&EF92X* ` end" -- Daniel Drucker
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: carlson@linac.fnal.gov (Kermit Carlson)
Subject: Re: Notam: "MU OTS" ???
Organization: Fermilab, Batavia, IL
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:01:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.191601.31707@eecs.nwu.edu> phil@pex.eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:
>I've seen this notam for about two weeks now, and I have no idea 
>what it means.
>
>!CGX 01/005 CGX MU OTS
>
>
>What's an MU?  Neither DUAT service was able to translate it for me.
>CGX has no instrument approaches, so I doubt that it is any sort of
>navaid.
>

   The MU meter is what the tower uses to measure breaking action.
Although it is relativly uncommon to see such  as NOTAM'ed as OTS
the water at both ends of CGX - Chicago Meigs warrants the caution
for the faster/larger traffic who find the length below their
balanced field length :+}

    Some comment about grass fields and their associated moo meters
could be included here as well.....

                                         Kermit
                                          Cessna N51411



>I hope this isn't too painfully obvious, or I'm going to look very
>silly.
>
>		William LeFebvre
>		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
>		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
>		Northwestern University
>		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
>
   that is a good question for the next biennial.... ;*}


Organization: Sponsored account, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 09:29:26 -0500 
From: Jeffrey Dunkle <jd5f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pilotage: Food for thought

>It's amazing how pilots, probably the better educated part of society,
>cannot combine these two conclusions and realize how important flight
>plans are.  [And I'll admit that I am (or was) one of those too!]
>Next time you go somewhere, look out the window and try to pinpoint
>something the size of an aircraft.  Maybe a car or a truck?  It's
>pretty tough to spot the detail.

Just to drive the point home....as some of you may know....a Cherokee
has been missing in the hills east of here for a week, as yet unfound. 
There were two abord and it was flying from Lancaster PA to Latrobe PA. 
The area is in the rolling mountains of the Alleghenies, but is thickly
wooded.

Jeff Dunkle<jd5f@andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc