From: rommel@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Kai-Uwe Rommel)
Subject: Re: NoS/2 shipping yet?
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:48:34 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.043924.25322@descartes.waterloo.edu> jsmolnar@descartes.waterloo.edu writes:
>>Nothing was left out.  It has all the features that it was supposed to
>>ship with, and will have even more features when 2.1 comes out, such
>>as SVGA support, etc.  Heck, it even does the things that Microshaft
>>weenies said could never be done, like run seamless windows.  Oh well,
>>what do you expect from a company that thinks Visual Basic is the
>>macro language of the future #8-)

>Well, hate to tell you this, but 32 bit Pm is not included, not all of
>seamless windows is included (ie SVGA, this is a fact), and other
>things, so becareful, you don't seem to know exactly what you are
>getting.  They are giving you a product they said would be complete,
>but it is not.

Well, hate to tell you this, but 32 bit PM IS included, just some code
within it is still 16 bit (the graphics engine) but the complete 32 bit
programming interface is there and will not change when the under-cover
graphics engine inside PM is substituted later for the 16 bit one. SVGA
seamless windows is THERE, you just need drivers from you card vendor as
you need it from your card vender for Windows 3.x too. Trident has made
drivers available to the public (I HAVE them) for 800x600 seamless
windows one day after OS/2 2.0 became available. When were Windows 3.0
SVGA drivers shipping after release of Windows 2.0?

You don't seem to know what we are getting. They are giving us a product
which is complete.

>On the other hand, Windows 3.1 is complete, and not a minor upgrade,
>it is not called 4.0 because MS already knows what it wants in 4.0 (and
>announced it basically).  So I think I will take the product I know is
>complete and doesn't require another few disks of upgrading in June...>

On the other hand, Windows 3.1 is not complete, it lacks
inter-application protection, a very basic thing.

>>   - Drag and Drop for programs.  You drop a data file on a program,
>>     and the program runs on that data file.  OS/2 has it.
>
>Well, sorry, but 3.0 did have a drag and drop style FM.

Who cares about the file manager having drag and drop? We need a
documented and supported drag and drop interface for ALL apps.

>>   - A built in font manager for scalable fonts.  OS/2 has had Adobe
>>     Type Manager integrated into the operating system for years.  

>Sorry, ATM has not been shipping with it for years, for I own it and
>know this for a fact.

Sorry, ATM has been shipping with *OS/2* for years. I own OS/2 1.3 and
got ATM and 12 type one fonts included with it (I use them daily!), in
OS/2 1.3 standard edition. Period. Look for the fonts on your OS/2 1.3
SE disk number 10.

Well, if you own ATM for Windows, it may well be that you know for fact
that you did not get it included with Windows for free :-)

>Well, MS did this because it wanted to create an open system for font
>technology that works cross platform (ie Mac).  Besides this technology
>has been proven better than ATM (so you can stick with it if you feel).

The Mac has ATM, Windows can use ATM and OS/2 has ATM, so where  is the
problem of cross-platform working? Truetype better than ATM? I remember
seeing a test from PC Mag cited here where they noted that Truetype
provided fast but buggy characters. And PC Mag has not been
anti-Windows, has it?

>>Of course, MS-Windoze does add a lot of other features in 3.1:
>>
>>- It has "Ole".  Neat.  Who cares?  Do any PROGRAMS use it?  The same
>>  features are available in OS/2, under a different name.  Nothing new here.

>First of all yes, a good few industry standard programs come available with it.
>And hate to tell you this, but you don't know what the hell you are
>talking about (as if this wasn't evident before).  Nothing even close
>to OLE is available under OS/2.  And OLE is quite useful for interapp
>communication.  I use it a lot.

Ever heard anything about the OS/2 2.0 "System Object Model" (SOM)? Get
a spec sheet from IBM and read it. It is not quite a 1 to 1 substitute
but provides the basic tools to implement object oriented applications
with the same functionality than Windows OLE applications (take a look
at the OS/2 2.0 workplace shell for an example).

>>OS/2 2.0 comes with DOS 5.0 and Windows.  Windows comes with a disclaimer.  
>>Any questions?     - juan@noyles.pha.pa.us (Juan Jose T. Noyles)
>
>Ya, then why does OS/2 come with a disclaimer as well.

Windows comes with a disclaimer ONLY. OS/2 comes with disclaimer and
POWER. 

>Please, if you want to compare the two, do it with constructive
>criticism or stay on a Os/2 area.  I agree that technically os/2 is
>better because of the 32 bit support, and multi-threading (though 32
>bit support is available under windows 3.0 and 3.1 .. more so in the
>later), but for the user, Windows is a hell of a lot better and will
>therefore fare better.  OLE, MM Extensions, TT fonts, faster, better FM
>etc (and cleaner desktop than os/2 2.0) all lead to a nicer system to
>work with.  

Maybe Windows is a hell of a lot slower than OS/2 and maybe a hell of a
lot of users have it because nothing better was available at that time
but it is certainly untrue that it is a hell of a lot better for the
user, it is just a hell of a lot better for Microsoft if the users use
it instead of OS/2 2.0.

>But I guess your mom taught you little, if you don't have anything
>nice to say, than don't say anything at all ... be constructive and
>know your facts before you speak...  I use both systems, and know what
>I am talking about.

These words turn against you! You don't seem to know *correctly* what
you are talking about.

And please, next time when you post an article, use the word-wrap
feature of your editor. Took me quite some keystrokes to reformat your
article when quoting it.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but as noted in an earlier article, I HATE it
when people spread misinformation.

Kai Uwe Rommel

/* Kai Uwe Rommel --- rommel@informatik.tu-muenchen.de */

DOS ... is still a real mode only non-reentrant interrupt
handler, and always will be.                -Russell Williams

Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms