HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 08:21:47 HST
From:         James Shimabukuro <JAMESS@UHUNIX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Reply to your request

John Keeling:
   Virtual browsing (or even on-line participation!) would be nice, but if
that's not possible, then a quick message or two on how it's all progressing
would be much appreciated.  I hope you're receiving some release time to
manage this project.

Jim Shimabukuro
jamess@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:34:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      no resume item

Lili, you're right.  Shimmering is nothing to put on a resume.
I've learned that people with eclectic skills, even brilliant
people with eclectic skills, are perceived by the grinding minds
that make the ultimate decisions as more than slightly suspect.
So often we tell our graduate students that sheer talent will
out, when in effect what counts is having the right study at the
right time for the right people.  Like lining up the planets.
Fred Kemp, TTU
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:00:04 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Favorite and most despised fonts

 *** Reply to note of 08/21/92 15:53
 My students used to turn in paper typed in some horrible large fat typeface
 that seemed to be of easy access in the MacIntosh connected to an image writer.
 It was almost unreadable. What *was* that wretched font?

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:37:00 EST
From:         "Christopher T. Loschen" <LOSCHEN@BRANDEIS.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Favorite and most despised fonts

Before returning to graduate school, I spent some time as a typesetter in
Silicon Valley.  At that time at least, Helvetica and its clones were almost
required for any technical documentation.  People thought that it looked more
clean, more precise and techie, even if it was harder to read.  I think
that's starting to loosen up a little--I'm seeing more Palatino in manuals
these days.  I imagine some of those employers still prefer to see resumes
in Helvetica, though.  For my own taste, Palatino or Bookman, and don't
waste my time with the fancy fonts title pages (Old English and the like).
I'd much prefer that the paper has lots of good ideas, of course, and too
often, the fancy fonts want to hide simplistic ideas.
Yours, Chris Loschen, Brandeis U.
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:44:42 -0500
From:         ENGMYLES@UBVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: misplaced the deed to the Idea

Eric:  what kinds of changes in other people do you think we can take
responsibility for?  and how can we tell that change has taken place?
My students get older, they handle some sorts of crises better, some of
them decide to do things like go to graduate school or not go, but all
of that would happen without us.  Fred started this, darn his eyes, but
he was on the righttrack:  there are changes we know we canmake in kids--
changes in behavior; sometimes we can change their interests or encourage
them or discourage them; but we don't set out to produce broad scale change.
I don't.  Not purposefully.  NOt in a lesson plan (never had one of those).
What do you change in one semester?  In the kids, that is.
Myles
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 11:18:00 EST
From:         00D0HENRIKSE@BSUVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: misplaced the deed to the Idea

Myles: how can you ever say "this course will . . . ."  Isn't it pretty
much up to the student?  Seems to me they can sit through the entire
course without much engagement, or merely superficial engagement, thus no real
change taking place, but a grade "earned".  Perhaps one should say, "This
course is designed to . . ."  which at least states what COULD happen
with the student's willingness to permit change.

I don't know.  I just know I sat through a lot of courses and wouldn't
agree with the course objectives that I had been "changed."

For other courses, I allowed entry into my mind in a more active way,
and real change did take place; but I, the student, was the controller
of whether or not that was going to happen.

Donna Henriksen (Nancy, I signed it!)  00d0henrikse@bsu.edu
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 12:59:00 EDT
From:         WWOOD@LUCY.WELLESLEY.EDU
Subject:      Re: misplaced the deed to the Idea

Myles (and others too numerable to mention by now; I'm losing track...):

Certain changes do take place in my students from beginning to end of
the semester that I can measure, or at least observe in some not-too-
subjective way.  Chief among the changes I count as important is that
they de-center:  they cease seeing things strictly from their own
18-year-old perspective, and begin to understand what an author was
attempting to do with a piece.  I think this is a developmental change, but
it is one that doesn't happen easily, and one that never happens with some
people.  It is one of the changes that a college education is for, one that
can be prompted and helped by college teachers.  I, as their writing teacher,
am not the sole agent of this change--I'm working collectively with my
colleagues on this one.

When we have a class full of 18-year-olds, we do have a hard time moving
them beyond the personal and immediate, which is why freshman anthologies
are full of pieces about growth, education, families, etc., and why the
phrase "identifiy with" is the most common phrase in our students' lexicon--
and why it is so hard to teach freshman writing!  When I get non-traditional
students in my classes--20 year-old Chinese students, e.g., or 35-year-
old returning students, it's a whole nother ball game, and the changes I
would hope for for them would be different.

Wini
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 08:06:20 CDT
From:         Eric Crump <C509379@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Tuesday night IRC

IRCers and Potential IRCers:

I've noticed a distinct lack of response on the list to Robert
Coover's request, fwded by Michael Joyce, for commentary (in the form
e-chatter) about the letters to the NYTBR editor in response to his
END of BOOKS piece (NYTBR, 6/21/92).  (The letters appeared 8/2/92,
I think).

Now, I know the relevance of the curriculum is momentarily the hot
topic here, but I was wondering if we couldn't tackle the end of
books and the response from the print lit crowd (in sum: "Oh no!
You can't take away our Books! you fiendish computer geeks!")

So, anybody game for a little IRC chatter on the subject,
dutifully forwarded to Coover afterward (it may be too late`
by now for him to send to NYTBR, but it never hurts to try).

9 p.m. central on channel #cw, as usual.

and if the conversation drifts into this relevance gig, so much
the better.

Eric Crump
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:44:44 -0400
From:         eng_allen@EMUNIX.EMICH.EDU
Subject:      our dogeared friends

Joel,
A bookstore in Montana uses the Groucho Marx quote on their store
T shirts.  It's a great line.

Nancy Allen
eng_allen@emunix.emich.edu
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 11:12:34 -0400
From:         eng_allen@EMUNIX.EMICH.EDU
Subject:      F2F and computers

Tom,
Try arranging the computers in pods, that is, with four computers on two
tables (pairs back to back).  Each group is surrounded by a little space,
depending on the size of your room.  This kind of arrangement encourages
group work and talk between and around monitors, and maybe that will look
positive to your colleague.  It also adds to decentering the room.

Nancy Allen
eng_allen@emunix.emich.edu
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Date:         Sat, 15 Aug 1992 18:41:00 EST
From:         BECKY RICKLY <00RJRICKLY@BSUVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: no duking

David,

On 8/15, you said "Rather, it's a wild fantasy that we should expect
whoever shows up at college nowadays to behave like college people--
faculty and students alike"

Exactly how do "college people" behave?

Just wondering...

Becky Rickly
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 05:27:20 CDT
From:         "Michael S. Hart" <HART@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      1990 Census (Second Edition)

The second Project Gutenberg edition of the 1990 US census has been posted:
(Complete with national, regional, and divisional summaries and listings.)

Aug 1992 The 1990 US Census (2nd)  (uscen902.xxx)

ftp mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (not from 10 AM to 5 PM)

(These 1992 etext releases in> cd /etext/etext92)

Available soon on simtel20, quake.think.com, NPTN


=====================================================

Thank you for your interest,

Michael S. Hart, Professor of Electronic Text
Executive Director of Project Gutenberg Etext
Illinois Benedictine College, Lisle, IL 60532
No official connection to U of Illinois--UIUC
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 11:36:30 EDT
From:         Susanmarie Harrington <USERGFHF@UMICHUM.BITNET>
Subject:      What we're allowed to know

Robert, I wish that I'd taken more math and science courses.  I took
chemistry one summer in college and loved it.  But somewhere along
the line in junior high and high school I developed the notion that
I just wasn't "good at" science and math like I was in English (despite
the fact that my grades were uniformly good across all my courses). And
then I had a HS chem teacher whom I disliked, and ended up being
discouraged from science.  Now I wish I knew more about how things
around me work, the practical and theoretical things.  Of course
I love my work as a writing teacher, but sometimes I wish that
the path to this job hadn't risen out of my feeling incompetent at
other things.
Susanmarie Harrington
English Composition Board/Univ. of Michigan
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Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1992 14:12:55 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Is your student population changing? (4)

 *** Reply to note of 08/16/92 10:52
 I'm seeing various versions of the population shift. I am currently serving as
 an administrator at ASU's new West campus. This semester we will enroll just
 under 5,000 students (a little over 3000 FTE). West is an upper-division and
 MA granting school just given separate accreditation from NCA. ALL of our
 students are transfer students (56% from Maricopa County Commuity Colleges,
 the rest from a variety of places, including the Main campus in Tempe). The
 overwhelming majority (64%) are age 25 or older. We have not yet begum
 systematically to assess the preparation of ASU West students. Meanwhile, back
 at the main campus, similar changes are taking place. The main campus is
 becoming a 2 year school by default. There are about 30,000 undergraduates at
 ASU main. Only about 5, 000 of them are first-year students. Upper division
 students outnumber lower division students 2-1. In my once (and future) life
 as director of comp at main campus, I figured that only about 15% of the
 students who eventually graduate from ASU Main will have taken first-year comp
 at ASU Main. I am still not quite sure what to do with that statistic. And ASU
 main students are getting older too. Most of the new first year students tend
 to be in the 18-20 range, but the average age for undergrads at Main is pretty
 much like the average age at West.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 10:47:36 EST
From:         Jim Porter <jporter@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Social Interaction in Computer Classrooms
              92 10:39 am

>An interesting subject: can you recommend some recent studies?

A good one is Jaspar Neel's _Plato, Derrida, and Writing_
(Southern Illinois UP, 1988).  Neel shows how the linear
communication model derives from Plato's philosophy--and
how Derrida provides an alternative theory of writing.
(Interestingly, Neel doesn't advocate one over the other--he
feels writing needs to balance models.)

Also look at David Dobrin's
_Writing and Technique_ (NCTE, 1989)--Dobrin does a good
job of identifying the sources of the linear communication
model (especially as applied in technical writing) ...
though I disagree with his conclusion that a dialogic
speech-act theory provides the best alternative.

I can't remember that either of these books says anything about
computers especially--but the issues they raise
are important to C&W nonetheless.  Much of the research I've
seen on CMC buys into the assumptions
of the linear communication model, still.  So I think it's
important that we surface that model and become familiar with
recent critiques of it.

--------------------
Jim Porter
Purdue University
jporter@mace.cc.purdue.edu
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:50:52 -0400
From:         WENDY <WARREN@EDINBORO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: misplaced the deed to the Idea

Dan,
I think it's great to teach a class and expect to learn something yourself
every semester, and center the class around some issue that you're currently
grappling with, but there's also a problem with that, in that you're "using"
the class for yourself. As long as it doesn't lose touch with the students,
that's okay, and I actually almost HAVE to use the class in a way, to avoid
becoming stale semester after semester. One friend asked me how I could teach
the same thing year after year, but I don't feel like it's ever done the same
way twice, and certainly the student mixes vary greatly from one section and
semester to the next. I'd like to hear what others think about this issue. I'm
always concerned that I'm using the classroom as a forum for some other agenda,
what Hairston wrote about in one of the spring issues, but then I'm also of a
mind that you can't help but be political either...as long as it's not jammed
down anybody's throat. Am I way off base, here?
It's just that there's a risk there, like any method, I guess. You should hear
the risks I'm taking this sem......
Wendy Warren
warren@edinboro.edu
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 10:04:33 --500
From:         bwresch@UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU
Subject:      ACE in Louisville

I have put together a listing of Assembly on Computers in English (ACE)
events at the NCTE convention in Louisville.  There are several places where
I will need help.

Thursday, 9-4:30  Multimedia Workshop -- presenters include Colletee Daiute,
Stephen Marcus, Doug Short, Dawn Rodrigues, Robert Royar, Paul LeBlanc,
Evelyn Posey, and Bill Wresch

Friday 4:30-6  Board of Directors Meeting

	6-7  Business Meeting:  Innovations of 92

Saturday and Sunday 9:30-5  ACE Software Center

At the Board meeting we will need to elect a Vice Chair for the group
(automatically becomes chair at 93 convention) plus several members for the
regular Board.  Anyone interested in chairing?

At the Business meeting we need people willing to give a five minute talk
about anything they see as an innovation.  It can be work they are currently
doing, or software they are using and like.  So far, Michael Day has
volunteered.  I need 6-8 more.

At the Software Center we need more people to serve as Experts to talk to
people about computer uses.  Here's the current list of volunteers:
Marianne Phinney, Bob Child, Michael Day, Robert Royar, Mike Benedict, Dawn
Rodrigues, Kim Ballard, Bill Wresch.  Apple and IBM will be supplying
hardware and software for people to play with.  What we want is to have
someone there who can sit in a corner and talk about how they use the stuff
in their classes.

If you are going to Louisville, please let me know if you will have some
time to help.

Bill Wresch
BWRESCH@UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:33:19 CDT
From:         Eric Crump <C509379@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      misplaced the deed to the Idea

Thanks, Myles, but it ain't MY idea. I was just telling Wini
to give you more credit because you provided the Words. I
think I must have read about it someplace anyway. Sounds
too good to be something I dreamed up all by myself.

Your point about syllabi is well-taken, too. turning
over responsibility to students doesn't necessarily
save teachers time and effort. Adds more in most cases,
I suppose. But it might be worth it. We'll see what
Wini has to say...

Eric
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:52:26 -0500
From:         ENGMYLES@UBVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Relevance?

Becky: what would you expect a bookstore to sell at ball state except
balls?  crystal, rubber, leather, plastic.  I guess the only thing to
do is bat them all around.
Myles
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:02:00 EST
From:         00D0HENRIKSE@BSUVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: misplaced the deed to the Idea

What can we change in one semester?  I'd be happy to think I helped change an at
   titude; one from "I hate to write" to "well, maybe it's not so bad".  That wo
   uld give me great pleasure to think I'd been partly responsible for that shif
   t.
Once the bug has bitten . .  . no telling!
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 10:07:49 -0500
From:         ENGMYLES@UBVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: misplaced the deed to the Idea

Eric: If I agree that change is neither measurable nor verifiable, that
I cannot predict what changes will be produced, in whom, and when, and
what form the change will take, how can I take credit for producing or
even influencing changes, or know that they take place, or tell the
legislature to give me money to produce them?  How do I establish your
agency and mine?  And why bother to say: this course will produce the
following changes in you:..... ?
Myles
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:53:00 EDT
From:         WWOOD@LUCY.WELLESLEY.EDU
Subject:      Re: What we're allowed to know

Susanmarie Harrington writes:  "...but sometimes I wish that the path to
this job hadn't risen out of my feeling incompetent at other things."  I
wonder what the path for being a writing instructor is for many of us.  How
did we get here?  On the linguist board there was a lengthy discussion
about how linguists ended up being linguists--the route that most closely
echoed mine (I did my graduate work in linguistics) was this:  we yearned
to be scientists but had a taste for language, loved language but weren't
burningly interested in literary theory; linguistics was the nexus, the plce
of refuge.  But for me, linguistics was also too remote from worldly things;
when I was starting on a dissertation in what Bantu tonology had to say for
phonological theory, I realized that probably only about 50 people in all
the world would even care about what I had to say, no matter how good it
was.  So I turned to writing instruction (I had learned to teach writing
along the way) as a way to reach a lot more people.  And, cynical as I am,
I still believe that we do reach, and even help, people when we help them
be better writers.  Linguistics is a good base for a writing instructor, but
I wish I had more knowledge about the conventional starting places--rhetoric
and literary theory.

Here's what else I wish I had had the wisdom to take during my undergrad
liberal arts days:  music appreciaion, art history, anthropology, economics,
political theory, calculus.  I'd still like to take these courses.  I'm
an advocate of lifelong education, of returning students, of nontradional
students....

'nuff said.

Wini
wwood@lucy.wellesley.edu
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 08:00:13 --500
From:         SLATIN@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Virus Alert!

Politicians aren't jokes, either, though I intend to watch the Republicans on
the Comedy Channel this evening... Sorry I was so grumpy about your message,
Dave, some of those things really were funny.  And we're still having
trouble-- I may have to reformat a few drives this week.  Damn.

John S
UT Austin
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 07:04:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Writing entirely by writing (15)
              (4)

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:37:39.77 MST
From: Doyle Burke <BURKE@MC.BITNET>
Message-id: <01GNQ2PRBJ44FULVM3@ulkyvx.bitnet>
Subject: RE: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Writing entirely by writing (15) (4)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

I know of two schools who do modem-based composition courses.  Rio Salado
Community College in Phoenix is one.  Dr. Julie Bertch developed the program
and now has seven students in Moscow taking the course.

The second school is one of the Houston Community Colleges.  I attended a
CCCC session in Boston in which they presented their program.  I'm sorry, but
I don't recall the names of presenters.

Three of us at Mesa Community College are planning to offer a modem-based
composition course, hopefully by fall, 1993.  We would appreciate any
information you have and would like advice from your experience.

Doyle Burke
Mesa Community College
Mesa, AZ
Burke@MC

------------------------------
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