From: Espen.H.Koht@dartmouth.edu (Espen H. Koht)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic 
 freedom
Date: 11 Apr 92 20:06:57 GMT
 <1992Apr3.122924.10645@husc3.harvard.edu>  <10845@chalmers.se>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <10845@chalmers.se>
d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes:

> In article <1992Apr3.122924.10645@husc3.harvard.edu> donaghey@husc8.harvard.edu (Thomas Donaghey) writes:
 >did not have the chance to answer was that in the US students have to
pay
> >huge sums for their education, which in Sweden comes free,
> 				^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   ...I have something against journalists peddling un- or halftruths regardless
> of it is of ignorance or by design.
> 
>   The truth in this matter is that while the actual education (lectures) are
> free, the student have to pay all materials themselves, and due to the 
> generally broken housing market, very often live in an expensive apartment
> that they cannot count on having since it is rented from the person who rented
> it from the landlord. Add to this normal living expenses, which is high over
> here, and the forced membership in the Students union which you have
> to be a member in to be allowed to take the tests.

            Well, when you have to pay $15,000 to attend lectures, the
difference is significant.  On top of that comes all the same expenses
you outline in terms of books, accomodations etc.   As far as I
remember (at least from the info I got from the Uni. of Oslo) the
Student Union fees were in the range of what I have to pay here as a
'Student Activities Fee' (~$100/year) and that is to a organization
with zero political clout too I might add, although it is the only
representaive body for students.  

>   So how do people solve this? Well there is the so called 'Studiel}n' which 
> is a big part loan and a small part subsizie that have to be payed back,
> *with interest* when you are finished. The amount payed back per year is
> dependent on income, so if your wage is low enough (not an issue for doctors,
> but for many academic professions) the loan will grow faster than you
> pay it off.
    
     Loans are very significant in any financial aid package granted
here (if you even get it all).  And they are interest bearing (starting
at the end of your studies).

>   So the situation isn't as black and white as "In the US you pay everything 
> by your self and in Sweden you get it all for free." Add the often extensive
> grants in the US, and the lower tax and it becomes greyer still.
  
    I think that the fact that here in the states most families who
expect to send their children on to higher education have to plan years
ahead and set aside money for that purpose, and infact go on paying for
their childrens education is the main difference.  The mentality is
entirely different basically.  The idea of a 'financially independent'
(ie. from your parents) student is foreign in American higher
education. 
 
    I really have a problem with this myth that tax money somehow
disappears into a gaping hole somewhere.  To get some perspective on
things look around yourself, admire your living-standard.  I dare
Scandinavians to compare their living standard to that of any other
country and come back and tell me you are getting ripped-off by the tax
system.  

Espen