From: unrza3@cd4680fs.rrze.uni-erlangen.de (Markus Kuhn)
Newsgroups: comp.std.internat
Subject: Re: An alternative I18N paradigm
Date: 31 Dec 1992 22:59:39 +0100
Organization: Regionales Rechenzentrum Erlangen
Reply-To: mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: cd4680fs.rrze.uni-erlangen.de

andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson) writes:

>In article <1hkff3EINN5uv@uni-erlangen.de>, unrza3@cd4680fs.rrze.uni-erlangen.de (Markus Kuhn) writes:
>> I suggest that this international local should use existing ISO standards
>> where possible. Some conventions for this international locale might be
>> 
>>   - use the metric system (SI units)
>>   - use ISO paper sizes (e.g. A4, C5, ...)
>[lines deleted]
>>   - ... (additional suggestions are welcome)

>  - a unified currency (say, the ECU)
>  - a single natural language (say, English)

>Some people believe that computers should be made to fit the needs
>of humans, not the other way around.

One elementary need of humans with regard to computers is simplicity
and transparency!

I agree completely and I believe that this does not conflict with my
proposal of an 'international locale'. There are a few elements of
a locale that are really necessary and the language used by programs
in dialogues is one good example. But the POSIX locales try to 
offer the usual all-in-one-kitchen-sink solution and offer many
many options for trivial output formats like decimal numbers and dates,
for which people all over the world will quickly accept international
standards. There isn't any cultural problem with the question whether
the date should be written littleendian or bigendian or worse. Whether we
have today

   - 31.12.1992 (German notation)
   - 1992-12-31 (ISO notation)
   - 12-31-1992 (US notation?)

isn't a question. Every intelligent person will easily understand
any of these and other notations. Perhaps an acceptable point of conflict 
would be which calendar should be used at all. Don't forget that there are
over 10^9 people on this planet that don't have the year 1992, because
their most important religious person was born 5000 or 7000 or 1400
years ago and that event defines their year 1. POSIX locales don't
address these REAL CULTURAL DIFFERENCES. It is ridiculous to introduce
complex mechanisms to switch between different decimal point alternatives,
but to ignore some major calendars.

No, I don't suggest to introduce another 10 locale elements for
calendar dates. The final solution is much easier, but perhaps we
have to wait a little bit for it: Some years ago, people within UN
have started to develop the idea of a new world calendar. Until then,
we should be happy with ISO 8601.

Solutions that try to make everyone happy (like POSIX locales) are
often much worse than simple solutions like an international locale
with as few local differences (e.g. message language) as possible.
Think about Occam's razor! Minimize local differences in environments
as much as possible! I have already enough troubles with switching
between German and US keyboard layouts here, but the most awful
and confusing keyboard I have ever used (SIEMENS PC 16-20) offered
both layouts in different colors ... 8-O

Markus

-- 
Markus Kuhn, Computer Science student -=-=- University of Erlangen, Germany
Internet: mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de  |  X.500 entry available
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