HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:47:50 EST
From:         "(Rashmi)" <rashmi%Spl3.ECE.Drexel.EDU@COE.DREXEL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Establishment (was legislating)
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
              "samant@CS.UCHICAGO.EDU" at Nov 11, 92 7:53 pm

: Well, non-antidisestablishmentarianistally speaking, my dear, I really
: think it's time Britain followed the US lead and separated Church from
: State.  We still have to swear alliegance to God first and the Queen
: second when we enlist in our Army.  It wasn't easy not to choke :-(

What's the story about the "So, help me God" bit?  Is that part of the
original oath of office, or something that was tacked on later?  What happens
if, horrors, an atheist is elected?  I can imagine the uproar if someone
refused to say those four words.  Is there any instance of an elected
official not saying them (all presidents and VPs appear to say them quite
routinely)?

rashmi
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: i'm on the rag
Date: 7 Nov 1992 20:49:45 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, R3EJD%AKRONVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu (Evelyn) says:

>"Filmed in front of a live audience" always makes me want to laugh;
>where else would they film it: in a morgue, perhaps?
>
If it would boost ratings, yes!  

>
-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
From: TRAVEN@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU (Blue eyes cryin' in the rain)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: HELLO!
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:32:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.EDU"
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.EDU

>Welcome, James. How come there's a + in your address? Regarding the F

	It means he's reading WORDS-L on Usenet.  It also means you can finger
	him, though I don't think you can get his full plan remotely.  Ask him
	about his 'companion.'

	From his username, I can also report that he's a student (no kidding),
	and is the 14th Pitt student with the initials JRL to receive a
	computer ID here.

	James, <real men> read WORDS-L on VMS.

[hey, I'm also known as traven+@pitt.edu]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal    traven@pittvms                  Bitnet          412-624-0097 (office)
        traven@vms.cis.pitt.edu         Internet        412-624-0110 (fax)
                    "You're only young once, but you can be immature forever."
                                          -- Larry Andersen, relief pitcher
From: BGRISSOM@UKCC.UKY.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: re: grungy city
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:06:07 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              5 Nov 1992 18:58:22 EST from <ST402747@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>

Blomberg rhapsodizes:

>     But the best I know is taking a ferry into Seattle at night, as the great
>gleaming skyline slowly looms closer to closer, as the ferry slowly enters into
>the embrace of the harbor, the lights of Ballard stretching around you to the
>north, and West Seattle to the south, all of it twinkling in reflection off the
>sound....

     Amen! Brother, preach on!                                   --brad
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:27:00 EST
From:         "(Alec D. Plotkin)" <185422285@UCIS.VILL.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Peeking out from under the manhole cover
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>Is it safe to come out now?

Never.
>-K

>-Mka
From: gtoal@RACHEL.IBMPCUG.CO.UK (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: amendment 2
Date: 8 Nov 92 22:39:54 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu


	And I'm not defending the 'religious right' -- I'm as scared of Pat
	Robertson and his ilk as I am of anyone.  I'm even scared of Jesse
	Jackson, since I'm basically a <devout coward>.  Look back at your
	post -- and please apologize for misreading me.  I defended you, and
	jim, and Ruth.  That's all.

I don't have to check.  I take your word.

I know you were defending Ruth, and not her views - in fact I think you
said that she hadn't claimed the views I was ascribing to her, and you'd
hold judgement until she posted them.  Well, it looks like it's going
to be impossible to pin her down to yes/no answers on issues like
OR9 or abortion of gay foetuses, so I guess we'd better leave it at that.

You may consider this an apology if it so strikes you.

G
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:05:00 JST
From:         Akio Tanaka <TANAKA%JPNSUT20.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Apology re Gleanings (67)

I must apologize for typos in Gleanings (67).

I have my own keyboard layouts on WordPerfect.  One of them is
<ctrl> + <k>, which carries the cursor to the left edge.  When
I was editing and putting the numbers in front of the items of
Gleanings, I seem to have pressed <k> before pressing <ctrl>.
Please drop <k> where you think necessary.  Thank you.

Monday was a busy day.  I had to read 352 KB of mail (which was
unusual for Monday), and then Marilyn with her husband came to
my office.  Marilyn sent some e-mails and we went out for a drink
in the evening.  We talked about the members of WORDS-L
mercilessly.  Steve (Marilyn's husband) gave me a lecture on
Multi-media, which I don't know anything about.

So, it was after I came back home that I was able to read mail,
edit Gleanings, and send it to the list.  That's why I was late
in sending messy Gleanings.

Please accept my apology.

Akio Tanaka/10 Nov 92
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 15:20:00 CST
From:         "Jim Thomas (tk0jut1@niu.bitnet)"
 <TK0JUT1%NIU.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Christian bashing (part 2)

Re "bashing," "bigotry," and discrimination: I'm not aware that
anybody advocates against Christians, including Fundametalists,
the following:

1. Discrimination in employment or housing
2. Teaching that it is "wrong" and "perverse"
3. Engaging in violence against them
4. Ridiculing them in public
5. Advocating violence against them
6. Reducing sentencing against victims solely because of
   their identity
7. Publicly castigating them as an evil that should be eradicated
8. Legislating against them
9. Denying them the full panoply of civil rights
10. The list continues.......

If Ruth chooses to adduce scripture, as is often done, to justify the
list, then she should not be surprised that the scriptures become a
focal point for debate. Ruth continues to confuse criticism of the
<reasons in the scriptures> with criticism for her <reasons for
believing in the scriptures> and thus equates criticisms of the logic
that promotes bigotry with Christian bashing. Ruth is unwilling to
support the rights of others that she is taught are "evil," yet she
wants her own rights respected.  She accuses those who criticize her
position as "violent" while proudly espousing a position that promotes
very real violence.  She just doesn't get it.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
From: jthomas@netsys.com (Jim Thomas)
Subject: Re: Apology to Ruth
Organization: Netsys Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:52:29 GMT

In article <2b000aa4.cursci@cursci.UUCP> Graham Toal <gtoal@CURSCI.CO.UK> writes:
>On Tue, 10 Nov 1992 05:37:42 GMT, "(Jim Thomas)" <jthomas@NETSYS.COM> wrote:
>> My point, beneath the stridency, was that some groups and *personal*
>> choices are condemned and must be confronted daily. You may not be the
>
>Yes.  Rita berated me for getting into what she considers an old
>argument.  But it isn't something you should fight once and then
>give up, saying 'I've done my bit'.  Once complacency sets in you
>get the situation like we currently have, where the pols in Colorado
>sneak through a reasonable-ish 'no positive discrimination' bill
>first, then when that works, gradually add more and more negative
>discrimination to it.  They planned their campaign more effectively
>than the bigots in Oregon who went straight for the jugular and
>were rejected.

And let's not forget that Georgia's anti-"sodomy" laws, which were
broad and include more than just an act of penetration, especially in
the hands of a rhetorically-gifted prosecutor--were ruled Constitutional
by the US Supreme Court a few years back. To my knowledge, they haven't
been invoked since then, but it's on the books. Let's also not forget
the Wisconsin woman who was indicted by her husband (in a child custody
ploy) under an old Wisconsin law making adultery a felony. The husband,
too, had other sex partners, but they were out-of-state and not subject to
Wisconsin law. The charges were eventually dropped, but felony charges for
adultery, a remnant of moral entrepenuerism, are totally unacceptable.

To address Steve's question of legislation--some acts, such as DUI laws--
we may oppose, but the reasons behind them extend beyond the enforcement
of private morality. Others, such as personal life style and other
choices that are not as clear cut, should be approached with the
greatest caution. When in doubt, we can afford a few errors in 
under-legislation far more than we can afford errors in over-legislation.
The current USSC has displayed a tendnacy to side with curtailment of
individual rights.

BTW--a blurb in today's (Nov 10) chicago tribune noted that 50 pct of the  US
population believes that the earth was created by a supreme deity within the
past 10,000 years. But, it also noted that the expansionist Tampa Bay
Lightening (hockey team) beat the NY Rangers 5-1 last night. There's hope
for the underdogs.
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: amendment 2
Date: 7 Nov 1992 07:17:59 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, gtoal@RACHEL.IBMPCUG.CO.UK (Graham Toal) says:

>PS These things appear to have been presented as 'no positive discrimination,
>no quotas' legislation.  Hell, I'd probably vote for that myself.  But they're
>not, are they?  Buried in all that prose is a lot of nasty negative
>discrimination and the thin end of a wedge. Btw can someone explain to
>me why it's Christians who are spearheading all this bigotry when they're
>supposed to be the ones who'll love *everybody*?  (Stap my vitals, and
>turn the other blindcheek, that's what I say...)

Do you want a serious answer?  We do it for that very reason.  Our Book
clearly states that certain things are wrong, with a capital W.  Voting 
to give preferred status, is "positive discrimination" to people who 
indulge in these practices is thus wrong as well.  If my father were an
alcoholic, I'd still love him because he *is* my father.  But I wouldn't
go on his booze buying runs for him.  I also wouldn't protect him from
a DWI rap.  It's a similar situation.  Christians may love everyone, and in
fact are *ordered* to do so.[direct quote from God's lips to Gospel-writers'
pens, worded in the imperitive]  On the other hand, we are told not to
love all the things people do, too.  I would love my father, but not the
alcohol; I will love a person, but not all of their actions.  Alcoholism
is thought to be genetically linked too, these days, but they pass laws
to protect the rest of us from the drunks, not the other way around.

You asked for it, you got it; do what you want with it.  This is fairly
conservative Christian thinking, most of it standard.  There is one
denomination that will ordain openly gay ministers.  They're in the distinct
minority, though.  And yes, this is a kissing cousin to the whole abortion
mess.  Don't even *think* of getting me started on that.:-)

-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
From: harwell@TENET.EDU (Anne Burton Harwell)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Wayward Pulpit
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:53:39 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Thu, 12 Nov 1992, Judith E. Schrier wrote:

> >is no fun. Are you keeping the beard ? Men and maybe women in Words-l must
> >have beards. It is sorta part of the look.
>
> The tail is optional. The beard is non-negotiable.

Awwww, do I have to?

-abh
It's scratchy!
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Biblical thought for the day...
Date: 9 Nov 1992 23:16:07 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, gtoal@CURSCI.CO.UK (Graham Toal) says:

>Feeling inspired, I've taken to reading the Bible for enjoyment.
>But I'm having trouble interpreting it.  I know I should take it
>literally, but for the life of me this sounds like a prohibition
>on praying in Church...  Should Christians *really* go back into
>the closet?
>
>Mat 6:5
> And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for
> they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the
> streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their
> reward.
>
> But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast
> shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which
> seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
>
This is part of the teaching Christ gave just prior to what's known as the
Lord's Prayer.  Matthew 6:7 tells the Disciples not to pray by rote - using
the same words over and over.  Kind of a verbal prayer wheel, really.  

Verse one states "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be
noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in
Heaven".[I'm using New American Standard, btw.  It was handy]  

IMNO [in my nontrustworthy opinion] it's a warning against hypocrisy, and
Christians are told in it to pray in a closet if that's what it takes to avoid
even appearing to be like the hypocrites.  On a personal note - if that's
what it takes to kill off lingering coals from the flame war, let's
head for our respective closets.  
-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: WORDS-L@UGA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:30:15 -0500
From:         James R Llewellyn <jrlst14+@PITT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: HELLO!

Don et. al.,
    By no means did I mean to criticize the list. I just noticed some
discrepancies between the world in general and the microcosm of WORDS-L.
Peace, Love, and Ban Peroxide,
Jim
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Computing Center, Mississippi State University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:53:39 GMT
From:         Frank Peters <fwp@CC.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fun for all
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

In article <9211100347.AA21045@epas.utoronto.ca> "(Agnes Kruchio)"
 <kruchio@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA> says:
: >
: > Pragmatic?
: >
: > There's nothing pragmatic about shipping outdated pig iron computers to
: > third world countries when you could send a high end PC cheaper and
: > have it last longer and be more useful while it does last.
: >
: > Charity without thought can be as much hindrance as help.
:
: Ok, you're on. Do it.

Huh?  Do what?
--
Frank Peters  -  UNIX Systems Programmer  -  Mississippi State University
Internet: fwp@CC.MsState.Edu  -  Phone: (601)325-7030  -  FAX: (601)325-8921
From: 185422285@UCIS.VILL.EDU ((Alec D. Plotkin))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: On the whole, I'd rather be in
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:03:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu


     >	Paris or Seville.  What do you all think?

Paris , I have not seen my Dad in a while.

later

alec
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Return-Path: <samant@cs.uchicago.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 03:03:32 CST
From:         samant@CS.UCHICAGO.EDU
Subject:      Re: Carolyn confuses the issue! (was Re: Twit word

>>But supracalifragilistic is extremely weak-minded! It's not a question
>>of objecting to it - it's just an objective fact!
>
>This has been allowed to get out of hand: supERcalifragilistic, surely.

"Super..." is even more weak-minded.

OK, I apologise for using the word "weak-minded" to refer to the word.
I originally used it to refer to anyone who would think it is a good
candidate for a single word.

This has nothing to do with whether the morphemes really exist and have
meanings which hold together. It's just a matter of whether they hold
together strongly. If you say supracalifragilisticex..., there is
already a weak link after "fragilistic". Changing supra to super is not
that disastrous, but it does kind of weaken the chain.

Same reason why pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis sounds
lame - it has a weak link after "scopic".

tushar
From: maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU (Natalie Maynor)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: UUCP Mail
Date: 7 Nov 92 21:41:08 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

> Count your blessings, Natalie - at least it isn't throwing headless
> chickens, egg trays de fridge, or peanuts at us!

But for every short blurb it tosses to the list, it's tossing about five
long delivery-error notices to me.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
From: bsinger@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Bayla Singer)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: November 7
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:40:56 GMT


Today's -Palm Beach Post- carried a story about how the cobblestones i
in Red Square have been torn up "for repair and replacement," and some
oldsters are grumbling that it seems suspiciously like an attempt
(successful) to prevent any parades or demonstrations today.

With Yeltsin's current difficulties, I wouldn't be at all surprised if
that were in fact the case. :-)

--bayla
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Return-Path: <tushar@math.uchicago.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:43:08 CST
From:         tushar@MATH.UCHICAGO.EDU
Subject:      Re: chalkos

>I'll bet the majority of chalkos aren't transpositions - they usually
>happen on a keyboard because a timing signal is sent to one hand
>slightly faster than it should have, so the fingers poised over
>a left-hand key and a right-hand key are pushed down in then wrong
>order.

Yes, it is hard to believe that transpositions can occur as chalkos.

>My guess is that for writing - paper or blackboard - the errors occur
>earlier in the phonological system and you make echoic sequence errors,
>such as phononological or phonolological.

The greatest chalko-artist I have ever seen is a professor right here in
the math department - Mel Rothenberg, champion vague-o and the department's
best loved nerd. (Apart from being a well known mathematician.)

I can't reel of his epic chalkos offhand, but I have a list somewhere,
compiled in parallel with taking lecture notes. Most of them do sound like
they originated in the phonological system.

He is also just a little bit dyslexic, and it might be hard to separate
out that component of his chalkos. Anyways, let me see if that list
exists.

tushar
From: karsten@netcom.com (karsten)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Grungy city
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:15:17 GMT
Organization: Karsten's Bit Bucket
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka) writes:
> Can you see it out there?  I was out in LA a few years back, and if you were
> up fairly high, you couldn't see *anything*.

Of course.  The smog isn't caused by cars or industry - its camouflage
produced by street gangs so they can't be seen by the helicopter cops.

--karsten

(Hence all the fires during our "civil unrest")
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Return-Path: <tushar@math.uchicago.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:17:13 CST
From:         tushar@MATH.UCHICAGO.EDU
Subject:      Re: When gods die

>I went to a Hindu wedding when I was a kid (big sister of a classmate) - it
>was just like that - kids running round wild around the central podium where
>a protracted ceremony was going on, people chatting and eating all the time,
>lots of fun being had by all.  I loved it - only religious event I've been
>to that I enjoyed.
>
>G

I was going to say something just like this to Blomberg's letter about
Orthodox services. In my opinion, whatever is called "Hinduism" allows
much more freedom than some other religions. I could never for instance
understand what the problem was in, say, "Portrait of an Artist ..." etc.
Let me say that a certain theology totally ruling someone's life is an
alien concept to me, and the phenomenon of someone going through a
psychological crisis because of religion strikes me as bizarre.

Since I have already started rambling, let me go on a bit. Even the earliest
"Hindu" (brahminical vedic) theology was split into six different schools.
Three of them were totally atheistic. So even before the Charvaks or the
Buddha, there were flourishing atheist philosophies.

Anyway, that's irrelevant. I don't exactly feel proud of Hinduism or
anything, but one of the things I definitely like is that there is
enough leeway for total irrelevance in the matter of gods. Or in any
matter, actually.

My grandfather could and did always make ridiculous fun of all religious
rituals and all gods. It's my fond theory that when he was young, the Konkan
strip on the west coast of India had one of the highest atheist densities
in the world. How else can I explain so many people from there, of his age,
who are so irreverent, humorous, and flamey without being bitter?

My grandfather doesn't talk to me or anyone much nowadays. I will always
remember one conversation I had with him, though. I was a kid and with
irrefutable kid logic asked him how he could make sarcastic remarks about
gods and rituals when his own wife devoutly read millions of holy books. He
turned to me gravely and said that I had to understand he was an old man.
He had seen the world, and had formed a considered opinion on it. His wife,
on the other hand, had seen less monsoons. She was a mere kid. Her opinions
obviously needed more time to mature and it would be premature and unfair
to damn her just then.

Their ages were something like 62 and 58. I was too young then to understand
what the old man was driving at and came out of it thoroughly freaked out.
Thankfully, I can remember it now, and I always laugh helplessly when I do.

tushar
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Return-Path: <samant@cs.uchicago.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:38:14 CST
From:         samant@CS.UCHICAGO.EDU
Subject:      Re: Tushar on the Ga

>"Liminal" refers to threshhold. The period between clearing the
>roads and the actual holiday, when no debts are to be contracted
>or paid, etc, is the "threshhold" of the holiday.

The sentence was something like "the restriction on socially
disruptive activities reinforces the liminality of the ... festival".

So apparently the festival marks some kind of "boundary". Liminal
is a bad word to use for just any kind of boundary or "crossing over"
or "turning point".

tushar
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