HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: terjer@ifi.unit.no (Terje Rydland)
Subject: Re: records-database
Organization: Ifi, University of Trondheim / AVH
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 07:40:58 GMT

I agree that a relational database would be the best for this purpose
because it reduces typing and gives the best freedom in searches.
It depends however on what you need. 

I have catalogued my recordings (consisting of about 1600 LP's,
250 CD's and 400 cassettes) with FileMaker Pro on my Mac Powerbook.
This is a flat-file database of extreme simplicity. I have separate databases
of LP's, CD's and cassettes, but they can all be open at the same time. 

I record the following data:

Composer : name, date of birth and date of death

Work : Name (symphony nr XX), opus number, key, date written, 
		category (orchestral, chamber etc)

Performer : As much as possible (orchestra, soloists, conductor, chorus etc)

Recording : Record company, record number, recording date

Other : What other works are on the CD, LP, Cassette
	      Where is the LP, CD, Cass. stored.


This gives me the flexibility I need. I can easily get lists of recordings
by specific artists, artist/composer, category etc FileMaker Pro is very
fast so even complex searches are accomplished in seconds.

The datafiles differ in size. The LP-file is about 2,5 MB, the CD file about
800k.

FileMaker Pro uses the card-metaphor (like HyperCard in many ways). This means
that to enter a new work by a composer I search for a card with as much as
possible 
 of the  information already there (I.e.  Mozart, string quart etc), duplicate
that
card and change the parts of the duplicate that I need. It doesn't take much
time!

The only really redundant information in this setup is the data about the
composer, so
in terms of entering data I don't think you would gain much from using a 
relational database. A relational database would give you more flexibility
in your searches though (and probably more speed). The set-up I have
described covers my needs.

Terje
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Paint Your Wagon (was Re: South Pacific)
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:13:00 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <CB.92Aug26144049@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:

>Sometime in my youth I was imprinted with a liking for the song "They
>Call the Wind Maria", which is now hard-wired; I can't evaluate the song
>impartially. ... 


>... rented a tape of the ~1970 movie "Paint Your
>Wagon".  Well, this thing is one of the all-time losers; I couldn't even
>finish it.  

As any movie guide book will probably tell you!  It was a major bomb,
and has few if any defenders.

>And "Maria" was stuck into it in the most arbitrary way,
>having as much to do with the plot as the songs in "A Hard Day's Night".

Indeed.  But isn't it the best thing in the movie?  (aside from the
quality of the song)  Finally, someone who knows how to sing, and what
the music is for, rather than nonsinging or dubbed movie stars.

>A recent Times article describes a new Eastern production of "Wagon" and
>includes a fairly extensive description of the show.  But I couldn't
>match this description with (what I saw of) the movie.  Is the movie
>supposed to be the same show, or did they rewrite it?  

Only the title plus a couple basic settings and character names are the
same.  It was totally rewritten and the old plot was thrown out as were
many of the songs.  Didn't the prominent credit for "Additional songs by
Andre Previn and Alan Jay Lerner" tip you off at all that something was
fishy?

>Was "Maria" more organically integrated in the original?  

I've never seen the show onstage, only read the play many years ago.  My
memory is that it's slightly more integrated in that it's one of the
main characters (rather than a walk-on) singing it, so it contributes
something to his character buildup.

>Is it a good show?

Again, the way to answer this is after having seen it.  I might suggest
though, that if it WERE a good show, people looking for a Lerner & Loewe
musical would sometimes choose it over Brigadoon, My Fair Lady, or
Camelot.  In fact it is almost never performed.  The current revival at
Goodspeed is a very rare chance to see it onstage, and I believe they've
felt the need to revise it a bit themselves.

It DOES however, carry out the tradition that all L & L shows feature
the 3 notes of the major triad as their major motiv:  compare the tunes
of "Brigadoon," "I could have" [danced all night], and "Camelot" with
"Paint your wagon...".  For whatever that's worth.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kiisaka@csi.uottawa.ca (Ken Iisaka (the mad pianist))
Subject: Re: Aspen Music Festival report
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 15:55:08 GMT

Why did I go to Aspen?

I would not be able to explain what made me go to Aspen this summer without
introducing myself.

I am an undergraduate computer science student who has been playing piano 
since 4 years old.  Because of the academic pressure, I have not been able to
practice much at all in the past several years.  On top of that, I suffered
from tendonitis over 3 years ago which prohibited me from playing for more than
10 minutes at a time.  I gravely missed music and needed a renewed inspiration
to continue.

Last year, my fiancee, Katie just finished her music degree from McGill 
university in Montreal.  Unfortunately, she has been having a bad experience   
there and needed a change in envirionment.  When the McGill orchestra was in
New York for a performance, she accidentally came across the New York office of
the Aspen Music Festival.  She picked up an application form and sent an
audition tape.  She was accepted and given a scholarship to attend.  She spent
9 weeks last summer there.

Seeing Katie returned regenerated, I instantly decided that I had to go to
Aspen to enrich my music.  I really did not consider going to other festivals
although there are other good ones.  Since Katie was planning to return to 
Aspen to continue studying with her teacher, we thought it would be an 
excellent opportunity to make music together.

After sending my tape, I was accepted by my first choice teacher, Gabriel
Chodos, of New England Conservatory.  He was chosen as my first choice only
because Katie's teacher, Yehuda Hanani, of Cincinnati University, College-
Conservatory of Music, is a very good friend of Gabriel Chodos.  It was 
basically a blind choice, still, since I knew little of his teaching.

It was perhaps rather radical for a computer science student to spend a summer
studying music.  However, it was a worthwhile experience as I will explain in
postings to follow.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

-- 
Ken Iisaka  kiisaka@csi.uottawa.ca : Just got back from Aspen, Colorado.
Artificial Intelligence Laboratory : Please be gentle.  I have to get 
University of Ottawa, Ont., Canada : acclimatised to the low altitude here.
H: +1 613 237 6642     W: 564 8155 : I was a mountain goat there...
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Subject: Re: The Essential John Cage
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:40:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.145444.5542@Princeton.EDU> jwp@dobro.Princeton.EDU () writes:
>Given the interest in Cage on this group, and since people have asked for
>suggestions of works to listen to, I thought I'd post the following list,
>which will be part of my forthcoming book on Cage's music.
>
>If I've made a mistake and claimed that there aren't >available< recordings
>of a piece when there are, I'd like to know about it.  Some of the recordings
>I list may be out of print, too, and I just don't know it.  
>
>James Pritchett
>jwp@silvertone.Princeton.EDU
>
>-----------------------------
>Amores (1943):  [???].

Two recordings:
- "Amadinda" on Hungaroton,
- "Kroumata" on BIS.

I posted the CD numbers recently; I don't recall them right now.

>Sonatas and Interludes:
Takahashi is on DENON.

Margaret
mikulska@astro.princeton.edu
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Funeral music?
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:01:51 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Distribution: rec.music.classical
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt) wrote:
> There have been many requests for wedding music. It just came to my mind,
> that on listening to one piece of music sometimes ago, I caught myself
> thinking: "This is music I would like them play in my funeral."
> Has anyone else had thoughts of same kind? 

I'd like a performance of Shostakovich's setting of Apollinaire's "The
Zaporozhian Cossacks' Reply to the Sultan of Constantinople" from the
14th Symphony.  With songsheets handed out to the congregation.  Give
'em a chance to express what they *really* felt about me...

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Supertitling
In-reply-to: conrad@brahms.udel.edu's message of Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:34:04 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<+#fnlr+.jfh@netcom.com> <Btutws.8qs@news.udel.edu>
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:39:44 CDT


Regarding big opera productions, cost, and so forth:

Out here in provincial Minnesota, we have what would be described as a
"regional" opera company.  Because of the huge surplus of well-trained
musicians in this country, the technical quality of this group is
actually quite good (though New Yorkers might disagree).  But more than
that, it's extremely accessible.  I can usually get a seat in the front
row, and the ticket price is something like $20.  This is an opera
experience that's almost unavailable to audiences in the major opera
centers.  The company knows how to work well on its scale and makes
works communicate with simplified scenery and props, somewhat in the
style of classic theater.  I've had quite rewarding operatic experiences
there, with a much closer relation to the goings-on that I could ever
get in row 89 at the Chicago Lyric Opera (having paid $70 for the
privilege).  In New York, I've been dazzled by the scale and
sumptuosness of the productions but not necessarily emotionally engaged.
I don't mean to suggest an overhaul of the big houses, but I do question
the need for multimillion-dollar productions.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.cd
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: Re: Summary: Ordering CDs from overseas
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:16:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.180933.8477@vax.oxford.ac.uk> ams@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>
>	These are a few US-based CD suppliers, who (according to the people who 
>sent me the addresses) will sell CDs by mail order. I emphasize that I have no 
>connection whatsoever with any of these firms, and have never (yet) ordered 
>from any of them. For all I know, they are all run by Robert Maxwell lookalikes
>who will abscond with your money as soon they see it. But it seems worthwhile 
>trying, given the certainty of being ripped off by British dealers. Many thanks 
>to those who sent me addresses.
>
.
.
.

>Compact Disc Connection,
>1016 E. El Camino Real
>Sunnyvale, Ca 94087	

Hey. This is my address!!! Actually it is a Mail Boxes Etc office where I have
a mailbox. So sure, send me your checks.
From: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM (James Langdell)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Enough about Cage, what about Partch?
Date: 25 Aug 1992 21:47:17 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bassclar

The world missed an astonishing opportunity for Partch's
creations going mainstream.

About a year before "Star Wars" came out, I attended a
presentation about the movie.  I asked the publicist
what plans there were for the music.  He said that
one thing they'd looked into was having a soundtrack
performed on Partch's instruments, but that John Williams
was also being considered.

In the cantina scene at least, Partch's music would have
been a better alien touch than the mutated dixieland
music that Williams composed.

--James Langdell       jamesc@eng.sun.com
  Sun Microsystems     Mountain View, Calif.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Winterreise
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:33:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.205043.11128@fid.morgan.com> steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:

>I'd welcome pointers to other performances, opinions, observations,
>whatever.

Gerald Moore wrote an interesting pianist's-eye view of it in his book
"The Schubert Song Cycles."  The third issue of OPUS had a lengthy
essay-review of 11 then-recent recordings by Conrad L. Osborne, in which
he devoted a great deal of thought and fine writing to the question of
how alien a song cycle is to 20th-century modes of presentation (he
proposed a cabaret-style performance with lighting, in which the
performer is allowed to "act" and the audience is prevented from
distraction by "following" it with texts or scores).

A very interesting and high-quality recording is the one by David
Wilson-Johnson and David Owen Norris on Hyperion (Norris uses a
fortepiano).  They present the songs in the poet's order, which is
different from the usual one, and make a good case that Schubert never
finalized his intended ordering of the songs (they make a less good case
for a different interpretation of the events of the story).

For "regular" performances of "Winterreise", I find the Fischer-Dieskau
one with Gerald Moore on DG (extracted from his Schubert marathon) the
best-balanced of his 6 recordings of it.  I also like Hans Hotter in
this work, either for EMI in the 1950s or even in very low keys for DG
in the 1960s -- he catches and sustains the desolation of the story.

Schubert seems to have composed the work with a tenor voice in mind,
judging from the keys he wrote it in, and for this Peter Pears and
Benjamin Britten are hard to beat.  (I haven't heard the Schreier.)

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steyn@cs.rochester.edu (Gavin Steyn)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:34:27 GMT

In article <BtMGLz.1Js@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:

>Because ANYTHING with value must be associated with a purpose.  Value is a
>value FOR some purpose, BY some valuer.  Would you mind explaining how something
>can be valuable without advancing a purpose?
>
>>Is the Koh-i-nor diamond valuable? Does it have a purpose?
>
>It has all kinds of purposes, it can be traded for things, it could be used 
>to make jewelry, it could be used for industrial purposes, it could be studied 
>for scientific purposes, it would make a dandy paperweight, and a thousand
>other things.  I think people generally value oddities more than they ought
>to, but that's another story.

This definition of value is so broad as to be pretty useless.  (Now if only
we get you to take the same approach to music :-) )
  After all, ny this definition, music does NOT have to have a message to
be good; it only has to have some value.  Cage's music ovbviously
has value to some people--it relaxes them, it makes them think, maybe it
influences their own music, and so on.  Now, it may not have any value to
Brian Yoder, but that's no crime.  (Heck, I find Mahler doesn't do anything
for me--I certainly wouldn't call his work "not music" :-) ).  Actually,
by the losse defintion above, Cage's music does have value for Brian Yoder; 
it gives him an example to point at to show how degenerate modern music is.

Gavin Steyn
steyn@cs.rochester.edu
"So he's had the lifelong ambition of reversing the polarity of the earth?"
From: kiess@i30fs1.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Heiko Kiessling)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mahler's 5th Symphony by Solti and remastering CDs
Date: 4 Sep 92 11:32:13 GMT
Reply-To: kiess@ira.uka.de
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany, Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: i30s20.ira.uka.de

In article <1992Sep3.180333.4315@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>, dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
|> In article <BtyCqv.HrK@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
|> >In article <1992Sep1.220115.22548@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
|> [...]
|> >>Solti is a formidable orchestral technician,
|> >>but I don't think he's much of a thinker.
|> >
|> >This is the standard thing to say about Solti, and I think he gets a bum
|> >rap sometimes.  
|> 
|> I didn't realise it was the recived wisdom. It certainly isn't in the
|> Penguin Guide which rhapsodises over some of his performances which I
|> find really week.
|> 
|> I will confess to only really being familiar with his Mahler and
|> Beethoven. Mind you, I did, in a fit of excess zeal for digital
|> recording in the early 80s, buy his Bruckner 5. This has to be one of
|> the worst performances I've ever heard...
|> 
|> >than Karajan, certainly)  And many more.  I wonder if his records were
|> >issued under pseudonyms, if people would react this way.
|> 
|> Maybe not. Maybe he wouldn't have won so many Emmys either?
|> 
|> Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
|> 
|> 
|> 

I recently read an interview with Solti (in FonoForum, a german magazine,
if memory serves me right), and what he said didn't quite fit your image
of him being a mere technician. His recordings of Wagner's operas are
exceptional (well, with one or two exceptions). For example, the famous
recording of Der Ring with the Wiener Philharmoniker has an emotional impact
which drives me to tears each time I hear it (especially the dialogue
between Bruennhilde and Wotan in Die Walkuere, and Siegfried's Death and
Funeral March in the third act of Die Goetterdaemmerung).

However, I own his digital recordings of Bruckner's 7th and 9th Symphony
from Decca and must admit that I don't like them very much. Too much
emphasis on brass and dynamics (but on the other hand that's a problem
with all those damn American orchestras ;-)). 
-- 
  Heiko
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Bottom ten operas
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:18:43 GMT

In article <92240.212326KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>The time has come for us to get serious. What ten works should be dropped
>from the canon, or at least from the standard international performing reper-
>tory?

Oooo.  This is getting nasty.  I love it!

>I don't know if I can list ten, but my list would include:
>Andrea Chenier
>La Gioconda
>Adriana Lecouvreur
>Faust

Note that those aren't really IN the international repertory.  None have
been done at either of the big London houses for decades, for instance
(I think Faust snuck into Covent Garden for one season).  Gioconda is
pretty much a US-and-Italy phenomenon only, and Adriana turns up only
because prima donnas who are a bit past it find it a flattering vehicle
(everyone else onstage compliments them on their acting -- so much
easier than really acting).

Still, believe it or not, those would have been my first choices too!
Let me see if I can add more.

Arabella
Semiramide (sorry)
The Rape of Lucretia (see, I don't love *all* Britten!)
I Puritani
La Sonnambula

Well, that gets me up to 9, anyway.

>My basic criterion for this list is the "If you can cast them, you can do
>something much better" standard 

My criterion is much simpler.  I just don't like them.  I find them
either birdbrained (Semiramide, Sonnambula), musically boring beyond
words (Semiramide, Adriana), kitsch pretending to profundity (Arabella), 
or morally loathsome (Lucretia).  I would have included things like Die
toten Augen or Tiefland in that latter category too, but they're safely
out of circulation already.  Gioconda is a different case; I actually
kind of like most of the music, but the time for this sort of grand
mindless musical melodrama has passed.  We're just out of touch with it
now.

Most of the examples of your rule "if you can cast it, you can do
something better" are out of the repertory anyway.  For instance, if you
can cast "Les Huguenots," you should do "Les Troyens" instead.  But who
can cast "Huguenots" or wants to do it in any case?

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 10:47:51 GMT

brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
: In article <1992Aug27.064005.19708@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
: >brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
: >[stuff about the USSR deleted...]
: >: Their offical policies on the laws of physics are similar to mine too,
: >: but that doesn't make me wrong there either. 
: >erh... Excuse me, I don't think you mean that. Remember Lysenko?
: Of course I do, and Lysenko in particular was why I put the word "similar"
: in there, just to forestall anyone like you who wants to focus on trivial
: side issues instead of what I was really discussing.  I guess it didn't
: work.
Que? What are your official policies on the laws of physics? Are you, too, a
self-contained Marxist hegemony? Please explain, the eyes of a thousand
net-landers are upon you...
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE; classical or not?
Date: 30 Aug 92 09:55:42 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1992Aug29.021539.16191@samba.oit.unc.edu> Rudy.Zalesak@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Rudy Zalesak) writes:
>A composer friend once told me that conservatory friends divided
>musical history into
>
>Pre-music (Medieval, Renaissance)
>*MUSIC* (from Bach to vaguely Wagner, maybe "easy" moderns)
>Post-music (Cage!, Schoenberg, ... Ornette Coleman...)
>
>I'm not sure where Glass and "easy" post-moderns would fit in
>here! Anyway his comment was that people who liked pre and post
>got along pretty well, but the *Music* types kept to themselves.

Depends on the conservatory, but I know the type; for ome of the
*MUSIC* group, you even have to leave out Bach and Handel,
strangely enough, as being "for Christmas and church only" :-),
yet who will nod to Vivaldi as "yuppie music-wallpaper" that the
"working class" classical musicians play for money.

I can't agree, though, that *all* classes of "Pre-music" folks get
along with our century..there are some people who are "into" the
Renaissance as purely creative anachonism...generally they only
involve themselves in a small range of madrigals and chansons and
cannot sing without a costume, and don't come to rehearsals.  :-)

Generally, though, those with tastes at either end of the
historical spectrum don't seem to avoid the middle or be otherwise
inhibited by barriers of period definition.


Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical