HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: Re: new template format
From: jwil1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (TMOTA)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:31:51 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland

[menu template handling code...]
>Of course, once the chunk has been defined, someone's got to
>write the SWIs to handle it... <shuffles feet and looks around
>hopefully>

Well, time permitting (i.e. not before March...) I'm willing...

>As to the Glass relocatable module (I'm liking this idea more and
>more) I should point out that the module will be PD, i.e. anyone
>can do what the hell they like with it.

Please don't do this. It's asking for trouble. Make it freeware,
so that you still retain some kind of revisiob control. Just look
what happened when Acorn let people hack and release their template
editor... in fact, Acorn didn't even let that happen, so beware!

>More importantly,  the *complete* source for the module will be
>Freeware, i.e. freely distributable but if you want to use the code
>in your own programs (as opposed to just being a SWI client) you have
>to get permission of the author (via the moderator i.e. me).

Um... I feel the source should be available only in a different form,
i.e. the module should be available, and the source code for the
contained functions (though not necessarily the whole module) should
be available in C/Assembler/BASIC if people want standalone code...

However, if the main thing is in an RM, you should encourage people
to use it as a shared resource rather than including the source code
directly into their own programs.

The main reason I believe the source code should be available is so that
  a) We can see what is going on in the module,
  b) We can alter it to do what we want, and send improvements back to
     you to possibly improve the next generation of the module...

>The reason the source will be available is because it's very useful when
>tracking down bugs or determining just *exactly* what a function does
>when the documentation is less than clear (as I found with DeskLib
>- this is supposed to be a compliment, Jason!).

;-) Well, I freely admit that DeskLib contains bugs. I had to leave
something up to the reader to solve, or they'd get bored ;-)

>Also, I think I'll back down on icon-decoding at run-time
 ...
>Of course, it's up to the programmer whether they use
>it or use constants...

...but of course, you'll encourage them to use it, as it
allows users more freedom with respect to altering the program
interface without having to re-compile the application to make
it work!

-- 
themasterofthearcanejwil1@cs.aukuni.ac.nzthismessagewassentonrecycledelectrons
From: srm2@ukc.ac.uk (Stephen Mansfield)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: RISC OS 3.1 WIMP Message...
Date: 4 Jan 93 16:35:13 GMT
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.


Just a quick question...

Does any one known the offical use and parameters of the WIMP message 0x400c9?

I believe it is broadcasted when one your menus dies...ie a wimp_MMENUDIE
message, its new to RISC OS 3.  If anyone can shed any light on the matter I
would appreciate it.

A coder awaiting the release of the new PRM's...

Stephen Mansfield.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: Re: New template format
From: jwil1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (TMOTA)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:35:19 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland

>How should the Glass format handle the fact that you use the text
>of an item leading to a submenu, as that's submenu title, which would
>be very convenient for menus you have multiple inside your menu tree,
>eg. colour selection menus. It's not neccesary to keep them multiple
>inside the glass file, as the only change would be the title name.

[aside:
  Well, for a start, throw away your colour selection menu. It was a silly
  idea in the first place, but now that Acorn draws a sprite for ticks
  in menus, the tick is all but guaranteed to be invisible on one colour...
  ;-(
  A colour menu should really be done as a dialogue window with 16 squares
  in it, as some programs are starting to use now... small, simple, and
  far more effective than a tacky stripey menu!
]

If you've read my template format document (posted recently), you may
have noticed that it doesn't handle this case: the reason is that I
personally want a UNIQUE identifier for each menu item in the tree.

If you rename just the menu title, then you lose the uniqueness of
identifiers, so you can't say 'colour0 was selected': you have to
refer to it as 'background.colour0', which limits the colour0 item to
lying within a submenu 'background', restricting the way you can redesign
your menu tree without recompiling the main application - this is something
I was hoping to avoid by having a flexible menu template format.

Thus, the suggestion was to copy a submenu altering the tags as you go,
to generate a new independent submenu. This means duplication in the menu
tree (but not necessarily in the menu template file), but who cares?
At least the thing can be edited properly.

There are also other problems: If GlassRM is going to support wonderful
stuff like tickable item ESG's and proper shading, as well as automatic
window popup, etc, it needs to have a separate copy of every submenu to
store the current state in (I kindof like the idea that you load a menu,
and then can ask about its state at any time, even when the menu is not
open, rather than having to store the state in variables yourself, and
re-write the state into the menu each time it is popped up...).
In this case, you have to have 2 copies of the menu, in order to store
all the state info correctly.

Apart from saving a teensy bit of memory (remember that the menu still has
to be duplicated n times in the WIMP menu definition in order to make it
work properly either way), I really can't see any good justification
for doing it your way... but I can see several very good reasons for
separate Glass-menu structures for every active/loaded submenu...
-- 
themasterofthearcanejwil1@cs.aukuni.ac.nzthismessagewassentonrecycledelectrons
From: wsinda@wsintt05.info.win.tue.nl (Dick Alstein)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: Re: New Template format discussion document
Date: 7 Jan 93 14:22:48 GMT
Reply-To: wsinda@info.win.tue.nl

tytgat@esat.kuleuven.ac.be (John Tytgat) writes:

>In article <4897@svin09.info.win.tue.nl> wsinda@info.win.tue.nl writes:
>>* Grouping icons
>Very good idea.  But maybe we can have a look at the way Draw stores grouped
>objects.  I think we can adopt the same way, something like : [...]
>
>As in Draw, group of icons can be nested.  However, there are certain
>consequences if we are using this approach : the icon numbering could be the
>order of apperance in the list of Icon object definitions.  And this puts a
>restriction on grouping/ungrouping because this action can change the order
>of the icon object definition block.
>This restriction does not apply for the programmer because (s)he only needs
>to remake the #define file but that's no solution for the user.

Doing icon grouping as in !Draw has the advantage that it enforces a proper
nesting (if two groups have objects in common, then one group must be a part of 
the other). However, in Draw files, objects are self-contained (except for
font handles, I think); all data needed to render an object can be found inside 
the definition block. IMO, it would be best to split the Indirected Data tables
and attach the data for each icon to the icon definition block. 

A consequence is that you are limited in how icons overlap: if icon A overlaps 
icon B, then all icons in the same group as A overlap B. But I think that's not 
a big restriction.

Another (logical) consequence is that you have to hide the icon numbers from
the programmer; if the grouping changes, then the order of the icon definitions 
in the file may change completely; hence icon numbers are very "unstable", and 
the programmer should only refer to icons by their names.

>What about defining the menu format in the Glass file ?

Looking at Olaf Krumnow's proposal, it wouldn't be much of a problem to define 
it. But, as Tim Browse wrote in his original posting, it's best to start with
a minimal definition, and extend the format when someone is seriously thinking
of writing a program (i.e. a Glass editor) that actually uses the extension.

Dick
From: phudv@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr R B Birkby)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: Re: A couple of questions.
Date: 12 Jan 1993 16:38:45 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk


 andyf@uk.sun.com (Andrew Fox - Sun UK - Answer centre) writes:

>Acorn are, in fact working on a replacement for the A540, and it should be with
>us quite shortly.

>It is currently called 'Victoria', in line with Acorns policy of naming machines
>after Australian cities (Brisbane - A5000, Perth - A4, Adelaide - A30x0).

>The prototype machine has an ARM610 running at 66Mhz in it, 8Mb of ram (with slots
>for up to 64Mb), VIDC20, and a slightly newer version of RISC OS 3.


Most of this information seems obvious but why would acorn want to sell a
product with the ARM610 ?
Surely an ARM600 with a FPU integrated or an external coprocessor bus would be
the best choice. Acorn wouldn't use this in a prototype either, they'd
construct a CPU board akin to the one in early A3010's with FPU support.

This sure does sound a nice machine though, especially the 66Mhz ;-) 

Richard.
-- 
********************************************************************************
*       Richard Birkby                    1st year physics student	       *
*		University of Warwick, Coventry ENGLAND CV4 7AL		       *
******************************************************************************** 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
From: tytgat@esat.kuleuven.ac.be (John Tytgat)
Subject: FontEd/PS print problems
Originator: tytgat@tolkien
Reply-To: baas@rulwi.LeidenUniv.nl (Simon Baas)
Organization: K.U.Leuven, Belgium
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 11:33:44 GMT

These questions are posted on behalf of Simon Baas, who can't post for
himself...
If you want to reply, then reply to the following address :
baas@rulwi.LeidenUniv.nl

Thanks !

John
tytgat@esat.kuleuven.ac.be
BASS  

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. What is the latest version of !FontEd, the Font Editor from
   Acorn? What is the status of this application? (PD, Shareware,
   Freeware, Beware, ...)
   If it's PD can someone please mail me a version higher than
   0.18 (10 May 89) (if such a version exists :-))...

2. How can I get the RO3.10 PS printer driver configured so, that the
   Adobe.Special encoding vector is used for a symbolic font? I have
   already tried to use !FontPrint, but despite my best efforts, I can't
   get a symbolic encoding vector in my PostScript output. Just the
   Acorn_Latin1Encoding...

3. If a font does not appear in the list !FontPrint displays, it will be
   downloaded to the printer. But why are the downloaded fonts so black?
   I mean, the letters just become bold or something. This makes it
   impossible to mix mapped and downloaded fonts, as the output really is
   like a sharp stick in the eye...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
From: tytgat@esat.kuleuven.ac.be (John Tytgat)
Subject: Re: CPU clock of A540
Originator: tytgat@queneau
Reply-To: tytgat@esat.kuleuven.ac.be (John Tytgat)
Organization: K.U.Leuven, Belgium
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 10:38:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.134929@informatik.uni-kl.de> m_sattle@informatik.uni-kl.de (Matthias Sattler) writes:
>A few days ago, I tried to increase the CPU clock of my A540. But I encountered
>a strange phenomenon. The computer boots until the message RISC OS .... then
>the cursor stops flashing and the A540 obviously crashes. BUT when I press
>reset now the computer enters the desktop happily and works fine??!!!
>I can't even run the ARM at 30 Mhz without having this problem......

When the Archimedes powers up, a memory check happens to see :

1) if your DRAM is ok,
2) and to find out the optimum DMA parameters.

Probably your enhanced CPU clock confuses the test and wrong DMA parameters
are being used (that's why an ARM3 has to have its 'cache off' during that
test).  If you simply press 'reset' then this test is being skipped.  I
presume Risc OS will take standard values for the DMA parameters.

I believe also that the CPU clock in the A540 is also being used for other
chips (isn't there a clock share (with a few basic dividers) between the MEMC
and ARM3 ? My A540 & A5000 Technical Reference Manuals are at home...).

BTW, what happens if you do a CTRL-reset ?

>But ALL A5000 I know run fine at 30 Mhz or even more and they only have the 
>'bad' ARM3 (as the A540 have the selected good ones..).

The A5000 has other circuitery than the A540 (see the A540 and A5000 Technical
Reference Manuals).  So comparing the 'same' hardware upgrade for these two
machines is a bit trickier than what you do.

>(At the moment I use a 74F74 on the processor card to get the CPU clock, maybe
>this is important. By the way, what is the 68ohm resistior between the 7474
>and the ARM3 good for?)

Mmh, you probably never heard about reflexions in transmission lines due to
differences in impedance ? Electronics is a bit more than replacing crystal
clocks... ;-)

John
tytgat@esat.kuleuven.ac.be
BASS
From: stuartb@spider.co.uk (Stuart Boutell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: A410/1 serial port: repair or replace?
Summary: to replace, or to repair? help me decide...
Keywords: serial port, broken, etc.
Date: 8 Jan 93 15:32:58 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK

The serial port on my A410/1 simply refuses to send data anymore.
(it was working, and now it ain't). I've checked out the cable, and
attempted to do a back-to-back, with no joy.

So, rather than spending mega-$$$ on getting my machine repaired (and
worse, being without it for ages), I was wondering:

a) About a year ago someone posted saying they had ended up socketing one
   of the serial related chips because it failed so regularly - if anyone
   has the details then I'd like to check this out, please.
  
b) Can anyone tell me if the Serial Port twin-serial card has
   software to allow one port to behave transparently as if it were
   the internal port? I'm very tempted to buy this card for two
   new serial ports that work, rather than have the broken
   one repaired for quite probably a similar amount of money...

aTdHvAaNnKcSe,
stuart
-- 
Stuart Boutell, Spider Systems Ltd, Edinburgh - stuartb@spider.co.uk
From: u894776@postoffice.utas.edu.au (James McCoull)
Subject: VIDC Programming Question
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 05:16:50 GMT

Just posting to ask for help on some low level VIDC programming.

I'm trying to program the VIDC to generate vsync interrupts after each scan
line - for both screen splitting, palette changing and a few other odds and
ends.  Unfortunately timers are no good for my task, I *must* have real
vsyncs.  So far I'm having a little trouble due to lack of documentation
(anyone know where I can find some documentation on the VIDC chip?
so far all my knowledge has come from looking at the OS and playing around
finding what the registers do).

Basically I have come up with two methods, but both do not work.  The first is
the simplest:

(1)  I gather that a vsync occurs when the vertical position passes the
value in the VDE (vertical display end) register.
So I had thought by setting the VDE to VDS+1 (vertical display start), I
would receive a vsync after the first line of the display - then on this
interrupt i could increase the value in VDE by 1,... and so forth.
However while all these registers do seem to take effect immediately
(unlike the vinit,vstart,vend buffer registers - which seem to be latched
on vsync) - this method doesnt seem to work.  It appears that the new VDE
value is ignored (something to do with the "should i be displaying new data"
logic on the VIDC chip?).
   I've tried a less ambitious example of only a single midscreen interrupt
but with no success.

(2)  My other 'method' is more complex it involves reprogramming the VC
(vertical cycle), VSW (vertical sync width) to produce the same effect.
However while i've only managed to get this method to work in a minimal sense.
I've managed to get a mid screen split using this method, but the video display
cuts out for at least one scan line... and i get about 8 distorted lines
(due to syncing trouble?).

Would any experienced VIDC programmer care to help me?
- or anyone care to post any VIDC documentation?

I'm at the hear tearing stage!!!

Preferably all followups to the news (as i don't have access to a proper
unix account)
From: mrp@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: do i need a memc1a to use risc-os 3.1?
Date: 4 Jan 93 12:28:43 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

do i need a memc1a to use risc-os 3.1 ?
thanks,
martin.
From: mrp@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: Watford A310 2mb upgrade board
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:41:59 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

i've got an old watford 2meg upgrade board now i've got 4mb in my
machine and i want to fit it to another a310.  i've lost the fitting
instructions so can someone confirm that its just a case of putting
the chips into the board, plugging the board in and connecting power
to the board.
thanks, martin.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
From: okrumnow@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Olaf Krumnow)
Subject: Re: New Template format discussion document
Organization: Point of Presence & MCS Hamburg
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 15:58:25 GMT

jwil1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (TMOTA) writes:

>If you are really concerned about icon tags taking up a lot of sapce, then
>I suggest that icon tags are either:
>  * 8 bytes of text, or
>  * 4 bytes of text/an integer.

>It would be fine to use sequential numbers as tags, so long as once a number
>is assigned to an icon, it is not renumbered by any change of position...
>Yup... Note also, though, that using a 4-byte number, we can also use
>numbers with weird 'values' such as:

>  Wimp_GetIconInfo(mainwindow, 'ICok',...)

And together with the already mentioned Window and icon pre- and suffixes
this should give enough possibilites to create an external tag for icons.

>>Yes, it would.  What about defining the menu format in the Glass file ?

>Already a proposition put forward. This would define menu entries and
>build menus from them. Each menu entry is tagged and contains some msgtransed
>text (e.g. the 'quit' item might contain the text 'Quit'). The support code
>will support extra stuff like ESG groups for tickable items, and proper
>handling of stuff like shading icons (shade an item with a submenu link
>and the submenu will still appear, only shaded, as in Acorn's Style Guide)

>This will also allow users to edit the menu layout completely, i.e. move
>'quit' into a submenu so that it's actually main -> go away -> die -> quit
>and the main program will still quite happily quit when 'quit' is selected.

And COPY items to other places, so they are available more than once, eg.
a save entry could be placed in a deeply nested menu, to allow saving after
a frequently used function.

>A mechanism would also ve included for automatically handling hotkeys for
>a menu item, so the user can change most of the key-bindings as well.

That's a must in my eyes. I never found key-bindings i liked. 

Olaf.

------------------------------------------------------------
Olaf Krumnow                 e-mail: okrumnow@mcshh.hanse.de
                             snail : August-Bebel-Str. 102c
Headquarter of the                   W-2050 Hamburg 80
German Archimedes Group              Germany
------------------------------------------------------------
From: J.Herbert1@lut.ac.uk (John O'Malley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: Arm mippage.
Date: 11 Jan 93 11:07:59 GMT
Reply-To: J.Herbert1@lut.ac.uk (John O'Malley)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.


Just a quicky from memory. I remember that in apples evalutaion of the ARM 610,
for there new newton handheld thingy, they ran a 20mhz ARM 600 and it apparently
ran at an equivilant mippage to a 25mhz 486 or a 40 mhz 68040, noting that the
fastest Mac uses a 33 mhz 68040. The other good thing about the ARM, is that no
other chip can match it for low power consumption at these speeds.
Read this months byte for information on Amulet an aschyncrounous implementation
of the ARM architechture which will, if it works run very, very fast indeed.

No flames please this was all from memory.

			Jim.

-- 
==================================================================
|  James Herbert	|				         |
| J.Herbert1@lut.ac.uk 	|	You see that PC compatible....   |
|	        	|	That's you that is.	         |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.tech
From: /G=Owen/S=Smith/O=SJ-Research/ADMD=INTERSPAN/C=GB/@mhs-relay.ac.uk
Subject: Re: High res Colour Printing in RISC OS 3.1
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 12:59:57 GMT

blacka@logica.co.uk wrote:

>- Owen is concerned about the ribbon becoming dirty 
>  because of overprinting.  I would guess this is only a 
>  problem with Y-interlace - for X interlace the driver
>  does the two yellow passes, etc ending with black.  Am
>  I correct here.

You are correct.

>  In the 
>  table of control codes (p58 if anyone has a copy) it 
>  gives the impression that you can print every dot, whereas
>  the spec on page 106 claims "Adjacacent dots not printable
>  in these modes".   I suspect the latter is the case - 
>  does anyone have any hard evidence.

Page 106 will be correct - I have experience in deciphering printer manuals.
Most 24 pin printer manuals say 360 DPI horizontal in their control code
tables and then later add a footnote about not being able to print adjacent
dots. If a manual says nothing at all on the point, assume nothing. It may
or may not be able to print adjacent dots. In this situation the only
options are to ring the printer manufacturer and ask, or print something out
assuming the printer can print adjacent dots and look at the output with a
strong magnifying glass or microscope.

>Final point - I have noticed that the quality of Outline
>Font printout is better under RISCOS3.1 than 2.  Previously
>I found 180x180 was poor, 360x360 was needed.  Now I  find
>that 180x180 is acceptable, and 360x180 when I need high
>quality.  Could Owen shed any light on what has  be done
>to obtain this  improvent 

I'm not sure what's giving this improvement, sorry.

Owen.