From: jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Females have it easy!
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:44:38 GMT
Reply-To: jsp@pls.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

earhard@ug.cs.dal.ca (Mark Earhard) writes:

}Well, I haven't had my share of girlfriends (about 4) in my quarter of a
}century, because I didn't date in highschool or until late into university,
}though I have dated quite a few poeple.  I'd have to agree with Sharon that
}it's a man's world when it comes to dating.  There seems to be a fundamental 
}problem with a lot of people's perception of how this "dating" thing works-  
}Both sides have limited power, but my opinion is that the guys have the 
}odds.  For example:

}Him:  I like her, I think I'll ask her out.
}Her:  I don't really like him, so I think I'll refuse

}Ok, this ends up on her side, BUT...

}Him:  I like her, I think I'll ask her out.
}Her:  He seems nice, I think I'll say yes.

}(they go out and have a reasonable time)

}Him:  I don't really think I want to start something with her
}Her:  I wish he'd call back...

}I would *MUCH* rather be on the aggressive side of the argument- ie it's
}my option to ask/not ask, call/call back.

I agree completely that it is much better to have the option, but your
assumption about who has that option is dead wrong.  Women have more
of an option than men do.  They have the above options, and they also
have the option of waiting for the man to be the aggressor.

Generally speaking, all other things being equal, if a woman is passive
and waits for men to approach her, there is a greater chance that she
will be approached than if a man waits passively.  (More generalization
disclaimers: given a man and a woman of similarly "attractive" appearance
and in similar circumstances).  The reality today is still that it is
much, much more common for a man to approach a woman than the other way
around.  The reality is that there are still many, many women who won't
even consider approaching a man.

So most men really don't have the option of sitting back.  Because if
they don't approach women, the chances are really, really good that
no women will approach them.

Women, on the other hand, can still take the more-or-less passive role
and know that men will approach them (again, generalization disclaimers
apply).  However, if they so desire, they *do* have the option of directly
approaching men.

}For example-  I went out with this quite nice woman a couple of months
}ago, but she really just wasn't what I was looking for in an SO, so
}I let things peter off.  I know for a fact that it ended up with
}her waiting to see if I'd call again.

But don't you see, this is exactly my point.  The woman *chose* the
option of waiting for you to call.  There was nothing stopping her 
from picking up the phone and calling you if she really wanted to
see you again.  But if the shoe was on the other foot, and you had 
really liked her, would you have had the option of waiting for her
to call?  The woman above, after some period of time passed without
hearing from you, could make the reasonable assumption that you weren't
interested.  But when that same period of time passed and you hadn't
heard from her, could you assume with as much certainty that she wasn't
interested in you?  Not bloody likely.  Because it is so much assumed
that the man is the aggressor, a man not calling most likely means he's
not interested.  But by the same token, a woman not calling *might*
mean she's not interested, but more likely means she's just waiting for
the man to call her (as, indeed, was apparently the case above).

}The option to do something is IMHO *FAR* more valuble than sitting
}by the phone waiting for something to happen.

But as a man, you have *no* option.  If you like the woman, you damn
well better call her; taking your "option" of sitting and waiting just
means you'll keep on waiting.

}I think women have a lot more at risk by being agressive than guys.  some
}guys just don't like women asking them out (I love it, and have never
}refused a woman's invitation)- they don't have the controll over the
}situation they feel they need.

Sure, some guys are put off by women asking, but I think there are easily
as many -- probably more -- men like me that would be so surprised and
thrilled at being approached by a woman that we'd accept such an invitation
even if it came from a woman that we might not have thought of approaching
on our own.  (Knee-jerkers beware: "woman that we might not have thought
of approaching" does *not* necessarily have anything to do with the woman's
looks, ok?  The plain fact is that men can't approach all woman, so some
criteria must be used.  Just don't assume that that criteria is always
and solely looks.  I'm just trying to head off potential flames here.)

--James Preston