HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kk@mcnc.org (Krzysztof A. Kozminski)
Subject: Re: Pond Building
Organization: MCNC Center for Microelectronics, RTP, NC
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:10:39 GMT

In article <BsyMpC.2IL@well.sf.ca.us> lp@well.sf.ca.us (Lily Pond) writes:
>Well, I've realized a big logistical problem: I want rocks to surround the
>pond and be the liner holder-downers. So I figure that's maybe 50-60 one
>foot in diameter round flat bottomed rocks. Well, the woman at American Soil
>Products tells me they're likely to be 75 lbs. each, and the only way they
>can get delivered is to dump them, expecting breakage, at the top of the
>drive (or wherever). Then anything else - the couple of big flat rocks I
>wanted on the edges, or the one big one for the middle, these'll be
>completely unmovable, I guess. So what am I going to do? Even if I forgo the
>big ones, the edging ones begin to seem impossible. Do I have any workable
>alternatives? Yikes!

For large stuff you want to put in the middle, you could use pumice
(soft,*very light* volcanic rock, comes in various colors from white to
black).  You'll have to anchor it down somehow or I think it might
float.  Perhaps carve a hole in what is supposed to be the bottom of
the rock, with opening smaller than the interior, and pour concrete +
real rocks in the hole.  Sort of like a tooth filling :-).  Carved
pumice also makes neat pots - you could make an island with stuff
growing in it.  I am not sure at all, though, how would it survive
freezing (if sf.ca.us is SanFrancisco, CA, USA, then this shouldn't be
a problem).  Just make sure not to underestimate the buoyancy,  or
you'll get a floating island :-)

Also, a 200 lb rock may be about 2feet in diameter with ~3-4 inches
thickness, so if this is the size you want, it is fairly easily movable
on a wheelbarrow.

As to rock breakage, I've had a truckload of rocks dumped once by my
driveway.  Yup, they break.  And they travel vast distances while
pruning nearby trees and bushes, rototilling flower beds, and taking
out bricks from walkways.  And you get about 500 pounds of ridiculous
rubble (too large for gravel, too small for anything useful) out of ~6
tons of what appeared to be (while on the truck) nice, large rocks.

Since then, I took to delivering them myself, in installments up to 10
pieces at a time (in my car the back seats fold; a piece of particle
board + lots of cardboard protect the integrity of the car), or ~30
pieces in a friends' pickup truck.  Additional benefit is that I get to
pick just the right pieces and, at 25 cents a piece, it is more than
twice cheaper than having the stuff delivered.  Just one warning: while
it is easy to dump a 200lbs rock into the trunk, taking it out without
inflicting damage on the car or yourself is quite a different story...

BTW, a solution that always worked for me when I needed to transport
large amounts of heavy stuff was to get together a couple of friends,
with at least one pickup truck, and trade a barbecue/homemade pizza for
some muscle work...

Speaking about ponds: does anybody know where to get lotus seeds?

KK
-- 
"Legalize freedom.  Vote libertarian"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller)
Subject: van Bourgondien & Sons
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:04:47 GMT

Sorry about the null post earlier.  I somehow lost my message file!

> VAN BOURGONDIEN & SONS, INC.
>    PO Box A
>    245 Farmingdale Road
>    Babylon, NY 11702
> 
> 
> I was wondering if anyone on this list has had trouble with this
> company.  I ordered 18 delphinium last February, my VISA was charged,
> but I've never received any plants.  I've called them over and over
> again.  At first, they told me the plants had been shipped.  (This
> was in May; I live in USDA zone 4.)  Then when they didn't arrive,
> I called back to say they must have been lost in the mail.  Then I
> was told that they'd run out and hadn't shipped them, and that 
> they would ship them to me *next* spring!  I've always thought that
> mail order places had to inform you if things were out of stock and
> give you the chance to cancel your order.  So I said I didn't want
> them next spring.  Then they said that they could only give me a
> merchandise credit, not credit my VISA.  When I got insistent about
> getting credit on my VISA, the person on the phone got rude, but
> agreed to credit the card.  Well, it's now August and guess what?
> I still haven't had my VISA card credited, and I've been calling
> each month to ask why not.  They just keep saying they'll get to it,
> but then they never do.  Have other people had this problem with
> van Bourgondien?  Is it not a reputable company?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jill McAllister
> (jill@cray.com)

Jill:  Contact the credit card company (your bank?) and find out from them 
how to complain.  Then tell then exactly what you have told the net.  They 
will check with the company and GET YOUR MONEY BACK.  That is one of the 
things you pay for with your yearly fee and interest payments.

--Jill Miller
--
A. Richard & Jill A. Miller            | Miller Microcomputer Services |
InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu       | 61 Lake Shore Road            |
Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA    | 

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens

Our area (Sunnyvale, CA) has been diagnosed with Oak Root (or Peach Root) 
Fungus.  We have found a whitish thready stuff in the soil about 6 inches down
(a very distinct layer).  The nurseries and the Agricultural Extension have 
told us that there are resistant plants, but I am more curious:

* How can a plant 'resist' strangulation?

* What types of soil encourage/discourage its growth?  (Is there something I
  can do to limit its spread--water, pH, etc.)

* I understand that it spreads by following the roots of plants.  Can it 
  spread by air (if we turn the soil and expose it)?

* Vegetables and grasses don't seem to be affected by it, but what about bulbs?
  (I'd like to plant daffodils in the area--if the bulb is below the fungus
  layer, would they be safe?  Is above better?)

* Is any research being done on the stuff?  Where could I write to get more
  information?  

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: starkie@eddore.trl.OZ.AU (Brad Starkie)
Subject: Re: Corn pollination: how?
Organization: Telecom Research Labs,Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:43:40 GMT

>Corn often won't produce cobs unless several plants are planted in a block.
>This is because the cobs must be pollinated before they will grow.
>Good news - if you have cobs growing already, you don't have to hand-pollinate.
>
I made the same mistake myself last year (My first crop of corn). 
I'd still recommend hand pollination as I ended up with cobs
with 1 kernel on them etc. After hand pollinating I got
perefect cobs.

>Remove one or more tassels and transfer the pollen to the silks.  One way to
>do this is to put the tassels in a small paper bag, close the bag and shake
>it, then carefully pour the dusty pollen on the silks.  You don't need much
>more than a pinch on each.
 Another way is just to rub the male tassels on the female
silks.

Brad Starkie
From: jdeck@wings.wcc.wesleyan.edu (Joseph G. Deck)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pond Building
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:22:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.104354.5334@mr.med.ge.com>  writes:
> Everyone is saying butal linerrs are the best  but most expensive.   
Could
> someone give me an idea on cost?  I'm concidering a 50' x 18' pond in my 
> yard and would love to get an idea on cost.  Maybe I can think bigger,  
or
> maybe I'm thinking way over my budget.

Pardise water gardens has a 45 mil @
8 x 10	$100.
up to
40 x 40 $1500

custom sizes are available

Lilypons water gardens has a 30 mil @

11 x 16 $299.
16 x 22 $595.

custom sizes at $1.79  per square foot

I put in my first pond last year using a 20 mil PVC liner.  This year I  
put in my second pond using a 32 mil PVC liner.  I think it all depends
on how permanent you want the pond to be.  

Life expectancies given in some of the catalogs are:

20 mil PVC  7 - 10 yr
32 mil PVC 15 - 20 yr
30 mil butyl  30 yr
45 mil butyl  50 yr
45 mil Herulite 50 yr
From: Ecology Center Fund <ecologycntr@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Date: 20 Aug 92 08:21 PDT
Subject: Re: Harvesting Potato(e)s :-)
Nf-ID: #R:168481125C.MWORKMAN@vm.cc.purdue:-1787891964:cdp:1453300077:000:330
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ecologycntr    Aug 20 08:21:00 1992


Dig the potatoes up after the tops die back.  The tops make food which
is stored in the tubers, therefore, the potatoes will reach their maximum
size right when the tops die back. (No more starch, no more tuber growth).

Of course, if you want "new potatoes", just dig them up around a month after
the top growth comes up.

chris

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: uehling@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Dana Uehling - Code 522)
Subject: Lawn problem- webworms?
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 12:04:08 GMT



My lawn is new sod that was put down last November.  About a month or
so ago I began getting half-rings of dead grass.  When I took a closer
look, I found a white substance at the soil level.  Could this be
sod webworms?  A book I have from the library says that if you dump
soapy water on them, the webworms will float to the surface.  I did this
but didn't see any worms.  Could something else be causing these rings?
What can I do to stop this from spreading? (I noticed more rings beginning
last night.)  My husband wants to dump alot of chemicals on the lawn.
I'm trying my best to stay "organic" but I don't want my new lawn destroyed.
Any and all help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Dana   (in maryland)

----
Dana L. Uehling                       Phone: (301) 286-3375
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center      Internet: uehling@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: crussel@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Carol A Russell)
Subject: Re: worms on brocoli
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:17:59 GMT

In article <PETRO.92Aug17115828@hancock.cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu> petro@hancock.cerc.
wvu.wvnet.edu (James Petro) writes:
>Hello.  I am growing brocoli without pesticides, and lo and behold, I
>have pests!  They are small, green worms.  I could a head up, and they
>turned into larger, yellow worms.  Needless to say, that ended up on
>my compost pile.  Is there anything I can do (organically) to get rid
>of these things before we eat the brocoli?
>
>I did try soaking the heads in cold water, and about 1 or 2 worms came
>off.  But the head I cooked had many more on it, so I feel it's not
>doing the job.  Any suggestions would be welcome.
>
>Jim


Jim - put some salt in the water.  About 1/2 cup per gallon of water is what I 
use, but there may be a better ratio.  Last time I picked broccoli I soaked it 
for about 20 minutes in this solution, and over a dozen worms came out of the 
heads.  There weren't any worms in it when we ate it.

carol
From: swk004@muvms3.bitnet (CONNIE LEINEN, SWK004@MARSHALL, HUNTINGTON, WV)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: African Violets
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:54:54 GMT
Organization: Marshall University

I don't know why or how, but I now have about 7 African violets and 
I've never purchased one or otherwise expressed a desire for one.

Nonetheless, I dutifully potted the first one, sure it would die.

I've decided African Violets and me get along.  These things go great
guns, are in almost a constant state of bloom and I ignore them 
shamefully.  People fall down and gasp over the one that is now
almost 3 feet wide.  "How do you do it?!"  I don't know.  I water
them when I remember (sometimes it's been 2 to 3 weeks between watering),
they frequently sit in standing water (I know this is a big no-no, generally
speaking, but as far as I can figure that's the only thing that as kept 
these things alive).  I fertilize once a year or so, generally about the 
time I solemnly swear to treat my houseplants better.  

It's terrible.  The big one is in a 10" pot, grows down the side, the roots
stick out the bottom and are laying in a puddle of water in the glass 
bowl that I set the pot in.  I'm afraid to try and repot the thing, 'cause
I can't even see the original pot and the whole thing is so overgrown, I'm 
sure to damage it getting it out.  Besides, if it ain't broke don't fix
it.

So, my advice, is neglect it.

Connie
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: bcking@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Christine King)
Subject: Re: marshmallow
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 15:02:32 GMT

The description in my Peterson "Field Guide to Wildflowers" says of
Marsh Mallow:

Mallow Family (Malvaceae)
  Note bushy column of stamens, typical of mallows.

  ...
  MARSH MALLOW  Alien	Althaea officinalis
	Velvety, gray-green, soft to the touch.  Leaves coarsely toothed
	or shallowly lobed.  Lower leaves heart-shaped or 3-lobed.
	Flowers pink.  2-4 ft.  Marsh edges.  Coast from Connecticut
	to Virginia; locally inland.			Aug.-Oct.


If I were looking for a recipe, I'd try the Euell Gibbons books,
"Stalking the Wild Asparagus", etc.
-- 
  Christine King
    Internet: bcking@hq.ileaf.COM
    US Mail:  Interleaf, Inc. / 9 Hillside Avenue / Waltham MA 02154 USA
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: sweiger@sequent.com (Mark Sweiger)
Subject: Re: HELP ME! California Sierra Redwood (Sequoia Giganteum)
Keywords: redwood, sequoia
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 17:40:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.224110.309@sco.COM> naomib@sco.COM (Naomi Brokaw) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug13.184302.11877@sequent.com> sweiger@sequent.com (Mark Sweiger) writes:
>>In article <55684@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> elefante@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (GUEST Luigi Elefante) writes:
>
>>>in 1989 I bought two plants of sequoia at Big Basin Redwoods State Park;
>>>Anyone could help to find books and documentation to grow them?
>
>>...In Italy, I would guess that the main
>>difficulty would be lack of water.  In their natural habitat, rainfall
>>is usually around 50 inches per year.
>
>Not where he bought them (Big Basin).  More like 20 inches per year.
>Although, more would probably not be amiss during the first couple
>of years.

You should check your figures.  *Average* rainfall in the valleys of
Santa Cruz *mountains* is 40-60 inches per year.  You haven't had much
rain in those mountains since 1986.  In 1981-1982, at Glenwood, above
Scott's Valley, we received 102 inches of rain that season, with 20
inches in one day, Jan 5, 1982.  The Boulder Creek/Big Basin area
typically would receive more rain than our higher elevation area.  The
whole mountainside at Love Creek, about 7 miles from Big Basin,
collapsed on Jan. 5, killing many people and destroying about 40
homes.  The sister of one of my best friends was buried in that slide.
Most bodies were never found.  Your 20 inch years are the dry years.
Hope you live on stable, high ground when the wet years return, as they
inevitably do.

>
>>>Massimo Barontini
>>>maxb@king.ICO.Olivetti.Com
>
>


-- 
phone: (503)578-4329    fax: (503)578-5730   internet: sweiger@sequent.com
From: buckc@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Carolyn Buck-Gengler)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Dandelions (was Re: ORGANIC lawn care???)
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:58:25 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <charlesv.714151560@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> charlesv@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Charles Van Duren) writes:
>sh4d+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sandra J. Harris) writes:
>
>>Does anyone know of an organic treatment for lawns?  My grass is in dire
>>need of treatment - it's full of clover, dandelions, lots of
>>unidentified weeds, and some grass.....
>
>Hey, if my lawn DIDN'T have clover and dandelions, it wouldn't be green
>at all!
>
>Why eradicate something that produces beautiful colours early in spring?

<in response to the above and a couple others who advocated leaving
dandelions in the yard...>
There are a couple reasons that some might not want dandelions in
their lawns and gardens:
1) Some folk are allergic to them (like *me*!  bringing my mom a
dandelion bouquet at the age of 4 or so is how I discovered my
(inherited, I think) hayfever/pollen allergy/whatever you want to
call it)
2) Neighbors might object, especially if they are trying to keep
their lawn weed-free; it's one thing to decide a particular thing is
not a weed, but another to force that decision on someone else with
another opinion when your seeds get scattered by the wind,
especially when
3) some municipalities have laws about weed control that include
dandelions.

Our main reason for eradicating the dandelions in our yard this
spring is the first one.  My husband used some chemical weed-killer
when the situation was worst (new home-owners and all that, it got
out of control before we realized it),
but I would be happy to learn of something a bit more benign, other
than digging out every last one.  We are fairly weed free now in the
lawn, and mainly only attack (by pulling, since there are fewer, or
cutting off the bulk of the plant including the flowers and buds) the
dandelions and salsify that are flowering and thus about to go to
seed.  Clover we don't have, but we also have thistle sometimes in
the grass.  That is more a problem if one is walking barefoot than
for my allergies, so we get rid of them too.

If I weren't allergic, I'd think about leaving them if my neighbors
(and Longmont) didn't mind!

Carolyn
-- 
Carolyn Buck-Gengler		Department of Linguistics
buckc@ucsu.colorado.edu		University of Colorado, Boulder
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Butterfly Weed
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:01:02 GMT
Distribution: rec.gardens
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens

In article <VSUMMERS.92Aug17115937@polaris.cv.nrao.edu> vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu (Vince Summers) writes:
>
>     I have only one Butterfly Weed on my property, although I planted a
>few dozen seeds this spring.  A partly bright-colored bug was at last 
>spotted as the culprit who makes a meal of the flowers before seed can set.
>Does anybody know what this is (probably)?  Sorry I can't be more definite
>as to description.  Also, does it take two years for the plant to germinate?

   Someone else has dealt with the insect question.  I will add that 
   my little bed of butterfly weed get attacked seasonally by bright
   orange aphids.  

   I have heard that butterfly weed seeds are hard to germinate, but
   I had no difficulty this year; about 80% germination within 2 weeks
   of seeds that had been stored dried and room temp over winter.  I
   got them from a single plant grown last year.  I suggest you plant
   them in pots and get some decent growth before transplanting the
   seedlings into a sandy sort of soil.  In general, don't expect 
   scattered seeds to manage very well.

   Wayne
From: machanicm@gtephx.UUCP (Mindy Machanic)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Mexican Primrose
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:52:47 GMT
Organization: AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona

In article <1992Aug17.175600.6070@clipper.ingr.com>, greeven@clipper.ingr.com (John Greeven) writes:
> A previous owner of my property did extensive landscaping which included
> the use of Mexican Primrose flowers.  They are very hardy and rather pretty
> but they are very invasive plants.  If planted in a flower bed along a
> a section of grass lawn, they will begin to invade in about a years time.
> 
> This is where I am at today.  Is there any advice out there on how to get rid
> of these plants?  
> 

First, dig out as many as you can. Second, take all forms of water away from
them. Third, bury a 12" strip of sheet metal around any area you don't want
invaded, and THEN add a capper of a brick edging. They have invasive roots.

I don't know where you are located, but in almost no place do they need
added water. Water makes them get huge. Here in Phoenix, we give them a
half-gallon of water to the general vicinity of the plants every few days
on the dripper, and they thrive. (Our patio stops them in one direction, and
we planned the garden to let them grow in between other plants in the other
directions.) 

If you want NO plants at all, you have to dig up the entire area and pull
out all the little rootlets you find. New plants grow from tiny little
pieces of root.
-- 
Mindy
*****************************************************************************************
Mindy Machanic  (AG Communication Systems/Quality Engineering, Phoenix, AZ)               
(This space available for interesting messages and the usual disclaimers...)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: spears@bobcat.lmc.edu (Gene Spears)
Subject: Re: Hummingbird-like insect?
Organization: Lees-McRae College, Banner Elk, NC
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:54:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.215920.673@calmasd.prime.com> jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop) writes:

>I'm getting confused.  I thought that someone said that sphinx moth
>came for the tobacco/tomato horn worms.  Now it sounds like there may
>be several species of the moth and ones that are being discussed in
>this thread are from the east part of U.S.

"Sphinx Moth", or "Hawkmoth" or "Hummingbird Moth" are common names for an 
entire family of moths, the Sphingidae.  They probably got the name "Sphinx 
Moth" because of the characteristic posture of their caterpillars.  They 
rear the front half of their body up when at rest, and resemble the Sphinx 
of Egypt (OK, these early entomologists had vivid imaginations).  According 
to "The Moth Book", there are about 80 species in NA, and lots of these are 
in the western US.  Lots more in the tropics.  All have a characteristic way 
of flying, with a high rate of wing strokes, like hummingbirds.

>So what do we have in California?  We definately have the
>tobacco/tomato horn worms; and though it has been a few years (OK many
>years) they look just like the ones we had when I was a kid in Texas
>and Kansas.  I've also seen hummingbird moths here.  So do we have a
>different species here?  Also what doese diurnal mean?

Diurnal means active during the day, like nocturnal means active at night.  
An even better word is "crepuscular" meaning active in the twilight, at dawn 
or dusk.


Gene Spears
spears@bobcat.lmc.edu
From: bobkay@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Bob Kyweriga)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PC / MAC based article reference databases
Date: 23 Aug 92 01:05:02 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

Does anyone know of or have experience with any of the
PC or macintosh based reference databases to magazine
articles about gardening?  I'm referring to the information
retrieval products where you provide a few keywords and
it kicks out references to articles that have appeared in
recent gardening rags.  I occasional seem some advertized
in the back of magazines.  Any opinions out there?


UUCP: {crash tcnet petrus quest}!orbit!pnet51!bobkay
ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!bobkay@nosc.mil
INET: bobkay@pnet51.orb.mn.org
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: Dog "Poop"?
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:10:52 GMT

In article <3740042@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, loftis@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Loftis) writes:
> 
> 	I have a question about Fertilizers.  Can Dog "Poop" be used as
> a fertilizer.  Many homes have this available and yet through out pounds
> of this stuff.  I am wondering if you can use it in a compost fashion. 
> 
> 	Let me know the negatives and any positives with dog poop.  I
> haven't found any literature that addresses this (I have read about a
> dozen books on landscaping, composting, etc).
> 
> 	Thanks for the info....Kirk


All I know is that when we had a dog, the kids were responsible for
cleaning up after it.  Well, they often didn't and where there was
dog-dodo, the grass was greener.  But I don't know if I would eat
something that grew in it.  ;-)

 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *  Sure to get `Flamed' if I didn't cross all my i's and dot all my t's ;-)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens