From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:54:34 EDT
Followup-To: 6.134616.4336@athena.mit.edu>

Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1992Nov16.134616.4336@athena.mit.edu>, dmsilev@athena.mit.edu (Daniel M Silevitch) writes:
> Note that the total cost of your improvements (most of which are not needed for
> your average PC) is ~$1000. The 486 machine still costs half of what the Quadra
> costs. 

Well, he didn't even begin to include software. Which should straighten out the
picture even more.

> IMHO Macs are way overpriced, even the peripherals. How much does Apple
> charge for the Extended Keyboard, $160? $200? At least twice what an
> IBM-compatible extended keyboard costs (~$79), and it isn't a very good keyboard
> anyway (feels like mush, no tactile feedback).

I LIKE Apple keyboards.

Of course the price may be higher, perhaps because it is a higher-quality 
keyboard.

One benefit of buying the keyboard separately is that you don't have to buy
Apple's keyboard if you don't want to. There are several companies that
make replacement keyboards. Cheaper. 

> |> Ability to add extra processors (only extremely specialized ones availiable).
> |> Ability to use more than 32 megs. (most PCs max out a 32 meg.).
> 
> Not true: limit for newer machines is usually 64Meg, and the P5 will be able to
> access 128 Meg.

Unless you run Xenix, you can't access more than 16 megs on a PC. The P5 isn't
out yet. (How can you possibly draw comparison with hardware that isn't even
shipping yet)

The Mac II I'm typing this to you on has 20 megs. It was sold in 1987. PCs
still haven't caught up. 

> |> System card bus that can access more than 16 meg. (ISA limit).
> 
> EISA. Enough said.

You still need OS support. Hardware support is only the half of it.

> Sorry, but I've used both the Quadra 950 and the 486-50. For straight number
> crunching, there is a definate edge to the 486, which gives it a distinct
> advantage given the 3:1 cost ratio. 

Except it isn't a "3:1: cost ratio. Remember the added hardware? Made it less
than 2:1. And you didn't even begin to check out the software additions 
necessary for the PC.

As for "number crunching" -- exactly what kind of computing is this? Is this
the kind where there's no need for a user at all?

> GUI performance is about equal, 

NOT!

Nothing on the PC compares with the Mac user interface.

> but is the Mac OS so much better that it is worth $4000?

Remember, it isn't $4000. More like $2000. You seem to keep forgetting all
those hardware additions you had to make the PC to make it marginally
equivalent to a Quadra 950.

> |> LC II w/ color monitor to 386/40 w/ color.  About the same price,
> |> 386 is much faster running Dos, slightly faster running Windows.
> 
> Quite a bit faster running Windows, 

Not in my experience. 

> and if you look at the options that come with the 386 (HD, memory, etc), it 
> is cheaper than the LC II by a considerable margin.

If you do just a numeric comparison of disk space, you are probably right.
However, the world isn't that simple. You also get lots of built-in stuff
with the LC (SCSI, Sound in and out, Networking software) that are extras
on the 386. You have to account for those additions as well.

> Same as above. Windows on a 486/33 is faster than a IIci, from personal
> experience. 

Except that Windows is not a Mac. "Faster" is pretty easy to achieve when
coupled with "does less."

> The cheapest Mac is the Classic II, costing around $1200. This comes with a 16
> Mhz 030 and 4 Mb of RAM and a 9" b+w screen.  For the same money, you can get 
> a 386/25 with SVGA and a 14" color display, a larger HD (Classic has standard 
> 40M), and Windows. Which one is the better deal. 

Not at all. With the Classic II, you get SCSI, ADB, Sound in and out, built-in
networking software, and a user interface that Windows can't touch. Plus
capabilities that you can't even get with the PC, such as the ability to
add a second monitor.

> For eye-strain release alone, I'll take the PC.

Why not spend a few $100's more and get the LC? You'd have even better color
than on the PC.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
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