HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: "what other people think" (was Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals..
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:19:19 GMT

In article <MUFFY.92Nov12115745@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.
edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.192346.24426@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sconley@magnus.a
cs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley) writes:
>>In article <BxIH13.87t@newcastle.ac.uk> J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harle
y)
>> writes:
>
>>>PC-speak might be stupid if we were all liberated, but we're not.
>>>What other people think about me does matter.
>
>>Then you will be oppressed by it as long as it matters to you.  You've
>>guaranteed your own oppression.  Have fun.
>
[job interview stuff deleted since that involves free association rights
 and will take us off on yet another tangent]
>
>I go out for a walk, wearing my freedom rings.  Some guys see me, decide
>that "what I really need is a man," attack me and rape me.  Are you
>claiming this would not happen if I "didn't care what they thought?"

No, I am not claiming that.

>What other people think *matters* because it translates into *action*.
>This can be positive or negative action, depending on what their
>thoughts are, but I assure you that people's thoughts *do* influence
>their actions, and their actions *can* affect other people.

Context DROP!  We were, as I recall, talking about whether it's okay
for Elf to dislike New Age Androgynous Bisexuals.  It was stated that
Elf's decision to dislike them amounted to oppression.  I disagreed with
that.  Elf did not say that they should be denied jobs, raped, or burned
at the stake.  He said he did not enjoy their company.

If you choose to dislike me, Muffy, are you oppressing me?  Is a negative
opinion a form of oppression?

I agree that thoughts and ideas matter, and it's important to try and
change people's minds when they're wrongheaded about something.  But is
a negative opinion, by itself, oppression?

>More than that, when people express their ideas, that *can* influence
>the ideas of other people, especially, say, their children.  "What other
>people think" has a lot to do with the world we are living in now and
>the world we will be living in in the future.  If we can affect "what
>other people think" in a way we consider positive, we can affect our
>world in a positive way as well.
>
>Acknowledging that "what other people think" *can* and *does* affect
>your life is *NOT* the same as saying that your thoughts and feelings
>are always influenced by theirs.

Agreed.  But what I was saying was, if you let someone's negative
opinion of you oppress you, then you're just creating oppression for
yourself.

There are no evil thoughts, only evil actions.

Steve Conley
sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: ahb0@aber.ac.uk (Anna He Baik)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Good Vibrations Catalog
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:15:06 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <1e3rphINNl9h@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>->men, including (and this makes me think that they aren't
>->_completely_ serious about toys for mem) a hand-pumped penis
>->enlarger.
>
>Actually, they're serious.  The penis enlarger is not actually that, but
>rather a device that lets you apply high suction to the penis ... Apparently
>some men may actually find that pleasant (I, personally, am writing this
>with my legs _firmly_ crossed).  To each hir own, I suppose ... the
>enlargement is a purely temporary and unintended side effect ...
>
>Of course, they sell the things that let you use it on nipples ... that
>would be fun ... 
Hmmm, someone once emailed me a cheaper method - you just use a bottle
& some matches (&ice cubes if you really want)...you drop the lighted 
match into the bottle & apply it to the relevant part, then use the ice
cubes to cool down the bottle if the match burning out doesn't create
enough suction....
Apparently it's best if you blindfold the victim first, cos they get rather
apprehensive when they hear sounds of clinking glass, & matches being 
struck....<cackle>
swsus,
yon
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Feeling out of place
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:55:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.130213.3199@infodev.cam.ac.uk> 
 crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
>"Action"? Deliberately seeking to confront people ("Kiss ins", tying pink
>balloons to lampposts, etc.) is something I resent, as I see it turning people
>off to lesbigay. Going through normal political channels, I don't mind, 
> although I haven't the energy for.

While confrontation and civil disobedience aren't my major modes of action,
I would suggest that there is something to be said for them. Lesbigay
invisibility is one of our problems and it is a tactic of the opposing
"traditional values" idelogy to deny that we do/should exist/be visible.

Research on homophobia has show that having any kind of interaction at
all with gay/lesbian people reduces homophobic attitudes, even of the
interaction was not seen as positive.

(On the other hand, it seems like a postitive interaction would be better.)

The alternatives are not between matching in the streets and doing nothing.

We should consider the merits of a mixed strategy -- there is something
to be said for having all sorts of actions.

I personally tend to favor methods that are a little less agressive but 
which still remind people I am bi.  Also, electoral politics are not the only
realm for political action to change attitudes and institutions.

As I said elsewhere, I'm involved with the church. Our denomination
(United Methodist) had a 4-year committee to "study" homosexuality.

When they met in our area to get feedback, a half-dozen or more people from
my congregation, including myself and another bisexual, testified before
the study committee.

When the study concluded, the majority recommendations were postitive
(though they were not adopted by the general church.) It is clear from
the margin that some hearts and minds were changed in the process.

Of course, one might hope there would be easier ways to change a handful
of people's minds -- or that the process of education they went through
could be replicated for the masses at a lower cost per-capita ;).

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons)
Subject: Re: Good Vibrations Catalog
Organization: Department of Atomic Text Units
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:13:09 GMT

In article <BxrwyC.6on@ibmpcug.co.uk> gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
|In article <1992Nov15.094230.26584@vpnet.chi.il.us> orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons) writes:
|>   No, I suspect with that thing the enlargement is an intentional
|>side-effect.  I've seen it advertised elsewhere, and the ads make a
|>specific point of mentioning that it's for penis enlarging.
|The *only* study to show this ever was the one commissioned by the
|original manufacturers.  All independent studies have shown no
|quantifiable effect at all, apart from a slight local swelling at
|the time of application.

   Who said anything about studies, or whether the things worked? 
The only comments I've seen about the things is something that (I
believe) Susie Bright wrote on them, where she said that they
worked, but only until you released the vacumn (and, from the
essay, apparently the enlargement can be *spectacular - personally,
I'd wonder about internal damage to my naughty bits after that sort
of, umm, exercise.

   But they still are sold for the purpose of penis enlargement,
except in the good vibes catalogue.  And that's why I don't think
that the people at good vibes are completely serious about the toys
for boys section...


|btw, they've been showing the operation for penoplasty on british TV
|here recently, and it's *gross*.  Your dick is stuffed with fat out
|your arse and goes all thick and squidgy.  Bleh.

   And, apparently, it only makes it look thick up until the point
where you have an erection, and then your penis sort of rises above
the fat, leaving a oh-so-attractive little fatty sheath at its base.

                 ____
   david parsons \bi/ "Gross commentary -R- us"
                  \/
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Latin (was Re: coming out to my parents)
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:59:25 GMT

In article <nsn.722229390@munagin> nsn@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:
:>>>I'm so *confused*!!
:>>Hoc non mirabile est, quia *bisexualis* es! :)
:>			     ^^^^^^^^^^ Shouldn't this be bisexuala ?
:
:Minime vero, O Timothee; adjectivum enim _bisexualis_ et non _bisexualus_
:est, cujus femininum _bisexualis_.

'Minime vero' - I *know* which book *he* learned Latin from :-)

G
PS Isn't there an 'annus mirabilis' joke in here somewhere fighting its
way out?
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: nsn@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas)
Subject: Re: demuffining at last....
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:49:27 GMT

eowyn@brahms.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis) writes:

ZOE!!!!!

*pounce*

*ravish*

Er, no, that's being a *biiiiiit* forward %^)

*fondle?*

Hm. Well, how about

*BACK-RUB!!!*

Ah yes. A *champion* of a pastime. Anyone here volunteering for me to
learn the skill upon? :)

>(somehow those warning clauses
>about spending thousands of dollars tend to put me off a bit) 

*giggle* All a lie, I tell you! It costs not a cent. Well, *I* haven't
seen a bill yet, anyways...

>(although others are always appreciated; being an English
>major I am little more than functionally literate where computers are
>concerned.) 

Yo Dawn! Yeah, you! Unix wiz! Get on over here :)

>I have about 400 back files left to read---we are a loquacious group!)

Oh. You *read* it all. Wow. Well, I didn't, but that's because I had
exams, what finished yesterday. So Mr Nick Nicholas has the pleasure to
inform you that he is

Back on the scene
Like a sex machine *uh*

and he's got oodles of catching up to do... *smile*

>So here I am, a muffin.  (*DUCK!*) (-:

Is that a muffin in your pocket or... dang! ANOTHER octopus! :)

>Words fail me.  Hugs to all.

That's the kind of failure I like :) though I can assure you all, this
woman can do the verbiage spiel well! Just ask her Shakespeare prof!

>Oh, and for any other celtophiles out there, I am yet another---
>although (as Nick can testify) I'm also Greek.  And also a francophile.
>And also a queerophile.

Let's file these -philes in order, shall we?

Celtophile --- one of these days, I *will* learn Erse; meantime, would
you be into Irish Latin stuff at all? St Columba's _Altus Prosator_,
for example?

Greek and Celtophile --- unbeatable combo. Reminds me of this Irish guy
playing Cretan folk music in Crete. The _lyra_ in the hands of a redhead
Billy Connoly lookalike? Forget your genderfucks, this was an ethnofuck
of champions!

Francophile? Hm. Does my being a Germanophile make us compatible, or
combattable? :)

Queerophile --- well, there are many here who could make capital of *that*
one :)

>hugs again.

Watch out, Zoe...

*RE-BACK-RUB!!!!*

>Zoe (just ask me about my login name.  Go on.  I dare you)

Incidentally, Zoe, I've been meaning to ask you about your login name...

 %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%
non me tenent vincula, non me tenet clavis, % (nsn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au)
quero michi similes et adjungor pravis.     % Nick Nicholas, striver, EE&CS,
      --- Archipoeta, _Confessio_.          % Univ. of Melbourne, Australia
From: winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: bisexual opinion by my friend
Date: 20 Nov 1992 01:26:44 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated, Austin
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com


|> PLease allow me to attempt to make up for my fellow statesman.  *I* happen
|> to be very much into the idea that West Virginian's are a friendly bunch.
|> *hug*
|> 
|> See?
I may be mistaken, but is this an ex-muffin?
I wanna >POUNCE<!
js

Gotta *name*?
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: My inner man
Date: 22 Nov 92 03:15:06 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <By12vs.98t@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>In article <By0n36.C7w@ibmpcug.co.uk> gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>>ARGH!!!!!  *See* what we meant????
>
>Oh, for For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge's sake! <spank> <spank> <spankety-spank>,
>Jim!  Here, take this bunch of hugs and go buy yourself a good etymological
>dictionary.
>
>				Kay
Grovel Grovel Grovel
I read the request not to ask after I posted but 
I had no way to retrieve it.
I offer my servitude in return for my hastiness.
Please take it and use it well.

Btw, I am an engineer who has not had a damn english course in
4 years, please pardon my etymological faults.
also, I am not proud of that; it is dictated to me.

-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    
               SILENCE = DEATH    
This is not a black and white world,
to be alive I believe the colors must be swirled- Live.
From: winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: "what other people think" (was Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals..
Date: 17 Nov 1992 23:02:10 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated, Austin
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com

In article <BP.92Nov16214429@swamp.cs.brown.edu>, bp@cs.brown.edu (Boris Putanec) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov16.231919.23826@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley) writes:
|> 
|>    There are no evil thoughts, only evil actions.
|> 
|> Yes. Yes, yes, yes. You hit the nail right on the head.
|> 
|> boris

Add my kudos!  And applause!
js
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Good Vibrations Catalog
Date: 16 Nov 1992 20:57:04 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1e8u38INNl6f@cuda.add.itg.ti.com> winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js) writes:
->Would *someone* please stop teasing about this damned catalog and post how to get
->one?  My wife and I are confined to a nasssty small town and need diversion.

Well, hey, no problem ... Just let us know what town you live in :).

Here's the info I have for GV.  Thsi is for their store, but you seem (no
offense) like you really want it, and the only information I have in my
phone book on line is this one ... mail me if you want the mail order info
and I'll mail it to you after my 14 hour sleep which I'll start RSN, honest
...

Name:           Good Vibrations
Number:         (415) 974-8980
Address:        1210 Valencia St (crossstreet 23rd)
Address:        SF  CA  94110
Email Address:
Comments:       Open 11AM to 7PM 7 days a week

I assume you can call them and then just sort of ask them for a catalog, I
believe. 

->grovel grovel grovel

Oh, please ... I'm sorry ... I'm usually the one who grovels :)

BTW, I'd have mailed this, but you still haven't really given us your
address :)

Hope this helps ... 

-roy

-- 
Roy S. Rapoport          rsr@soda.berkeley.edu             rsr@ocf.berkeley.edu
"Letters from you make me feel good."  -Laura Creighton
"Why do you guys all have to have penises?" -anon
DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it, but I doubt anyone else did."
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count)
Subject: Re: coming out to my parents
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:31:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.153149.23717@ctp.com> sthor@ctp.com (Sarah Thornburg) writes:
>Okay, so here's a question - why is it that gays and lesbians seem to
>believe that every one who is *not* het shouldn't *look* het.  I know, I
>know, it's yet another way of openly declaring one's sexuality, just like the
>T-shirts and pins etc.  But why is it that we are seen as somehow *wrong*,
>or at least not serious about being lesbigay if we look just like the
>average het on the street?  I mean really!  I look like the average
>girl-next-door, and quite frankly, that's also the kind of woman I am
>attracted to.  I don't believe that makes me any less bi than someone who
>"looks" lesbigay.

I don't know.  I appear like any other guy.  In fact, i don't ever think
that I have run across any LGB person who thought that if you were
out you had to be **OUT** (ie.. in looks)

If you bi, gay, or lesbian, it dosn't matter how you look ar act
you are still the same.

- kraig

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: demuffining at last....
Date: 16 Nov 1992 19:45:14 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated, Austin
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com

In article <BxoAMr.1GL@news.udel.edu>, eowyn@brahms.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis) writes:
|> 
|> Well, this is the first time I am actually posting anything to this or
|> any net, so bear with me if I screw up (somehow those warning clauses
|> about spending thousands of dollars tend to put me off a bit) but 
Money *well spent!

|> So here I am, a muffin.  (*DUCK!*) (-:
>pounce<
*hug* *hug* *hug*

|> I would like to thank everyone on the net who's said anything of merit
|> (yes, that's all of you that I've read, bask in the compliments) and
|> especially those who de-muffined before me and gave me an idea of what
|> to expect.
|> Um.
|> Words fail me.  Hugs to all.
Gleefully accepted!  Hugs back!

|> Special hellos to James and Jim, my fellow soc.bi compatriots here at  
|> UD---Jim, how did you manage to get that purity test score?  I thought
|> I was impure at 56.7%!!!! I guess I have a way to go before I get on
|> your level....
Jim, I *know* has TOO many carnal thoughts :) !  (hi Jim!)

|> Zoe (just ask me about my login name.  Go on.  I dare you)
Okay:
What's your login name?  eowyn?  Perfectly logical.

Welcome to the biggest party line in history!
js
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: PC
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:54:24 GMT

In article <1e72ujINNet6@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
>2)  You missed the point.  I'm not going to continue this because soc.bi
>isn't the right forum.

Oh, I'm sorry.  I thought the point was "I want to save the earth" was
interpreted as a heartfelt belief, albeit vague, and "i want to
recycle paper cups" was interpreted as PC cant, because it was a
stock phrase of woolly-minded wannabe ecologists who repeated what
they heard verbatim wthout thinking about it.

Since you're still using your signature in this forum, it does seem
like a suitable place to continue.  Perhaps you'd enlighten me as
to its true significance...?

>Tom
>-- 
>Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
>When I said, "save the earth!" everyone cheered.
>When I said, "why are you using styrofoam cups which don't recycle?"
>everyone called me "PC" and told me to go away.


G
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Feeling out of place
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 06:28:15 GMT

crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
: J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:
: > crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
: [...]
: > >It *is* legal (more or less).
: > Some things are, some aren't. Some people think some of the things that
: > *are* legal, shouldn't be. To voice an opposing view is political.
: I would prefer to regard it as a moral decision, rather than one of political
: ideology.

Whoa, you've lost me already!  What are you calling a "political
ideology" here?  That i-word is a shade loaded, and not necessarily
connected to my idea of what "political" means (in much the same way
that dogmatism has little to do with Jesus, even if it does seem to
taint several of his followers).

I mean, surely legality itself is a political issue; to have purely
apolitical views about it seems a nonsense.  It seems sensible to me to
use "political" to refer to any situation involving more than one
person, since humans tend to introduce power (however subtly) into
everything.  This is particularly true of societies, and what they do
and do not permit.  

I can't imagine what it means to have an apolitical opinion about the
appropriatness of motss PDAing, for instance.

puzzled hugs
Mike
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
From: bv426@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steven A. Kendrick)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: RE:re Just say NO
Date: 18 Nov 1992 01:36:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
 
>> While I'm sure you're doing so for a good motive, it's not
>> wise to spread disinformation for any reason.  The
>> amyl-nitrate/drug 'cause' of aids was put around by *one*
>> man, who is a homophobic bigot specifically trying to confine
>> the problem to homosexuals and drug addicts.  Haven't heard
>> much more about him since there was a significant crossover
>> into the non-drug-abusing straight population.
>>
>> Amyl nitrates may well have deliterious efects on the body
>> but there is *no* proven, suspected, or even posited (by
>> anyone else) connection with Aids.  Sufficient research has
>> been done by many many groups by now that we'd know if
>> there was.
 
FACTS:
  
1)  Any toxin that passes thru the hhepatic portal system is likely to
    cause immune impairment:  This includes, but is not limited to
    alcohol, poppers, solvents, et al.  The Jury is out about
    marijuana, since it is metabolized thru a different pathway
    (1 setp carboxylation vs. multistep oxidation, producing a
    non-membrane-permeable metabolite)
 
2)  It is true about the 1 person being the "poppers causing GRID"
    theory.  This does NOT, however, discredit any LINKING FACTOR
    or COFACTOR role for amyl nitrate, and there were some interesting
    studies of this effect before the "Discovery" of HTVLV3/HIV.
  
3)  Consequently, this research was abandoned -- also, there was never
    ANY study of the role of cell mediated immune response, which
    is telling, since CMIR may play the #1 role in preventing sero
    conversion in men who continue to have risk behavior.
 
4)  Ten years later, there is STILL no vaccine or a good
    understanding of hiv epidemeology, pathenogenis, et al...
  
And that is because no ONE "magic bullet" will solve the problem.
In fact, the indicators point to most cncers and auto-/deficient-
immune disease arise from modern & industrial causes.
 
So, the choice is yours.  You can dismiss my arguments as
"unwarranted" or "unproven thru research" and continue to indulge
in amyl nitrate or whatever and hope that the thin skin of a latex
condom will keep you healthy.
  
I don't have that choice.  I have cfids.  I take care of my 
teetering immune system as best I can and keep the pollutan out
of my space.  My friends living with AIDS do the same.  Do you
need INDEFATIGABLE PROOF published in journals or isn't COMMON
SENSE enough?
  
           s. kendrick (bv426@freenet.cwru.edu)