From: jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer)
Subject: You gonna pay for it?? (was Re: Open Access Computing NOW)
Organization: CAT-TALK Conferencing System
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:27:49 GMT

In article <9212120733.AA03282@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> schuyler@acf9.nyu.edu (Gabriel M. Schuyler) writes:
>Basically, I believe that access to the internet is an information resource
>like any other (e.g. the library) and that the University should allow
>access to the internet to all students without question.

What, so you can go and FTP dirty pictures and violate copyright laws.

Look - I'm tired of hearing all the whining from people who think that
they have some sort of RIGHT to access USENET/NSFNET/etc from their 
college machines.
 
Look buster, those machines cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and
are not like the library. They are there for specific research. Most
often this is:
   o - For research funded by a grant (a grant may be paying for
       the equipment).
   o - for other research
   o - For classwork
   o - For e-mail and news related to the above

Now, its ENTIRLY up to your school if they want to let you read/post news
on those machines or if they let you FTP and play MUD. You HAVE NO
INTRINSIC RIGHT TO IT!!!
 
Don't think that I'm some sort of authoritarian who thinks that the
administration is getting a rough deal - I'm not. I've fought my
battles with the Wayne State C&IT but that was over due process and 
over their contractual obligation to provide access to their systems.
(They have a policy giving students access).
 
Now - you can send a letter to your university asking them nicely
if they could do this for you (and the other students), but thats
it.
 
Now, if part of the student rights policy states that you are entitled
to certain things or if certain privileges are available to other
students in general (ie: the entire student body and not just some
taking a certain class, etc), then your school is breaching the 
contract that it has with you and you have a legal issue to take up
with them. 
 
In general, if it isn't explicitly stated in the contract that you
have with the school, and if they don't generally give full net 
access to just anyone, then YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to it.
 
--flame off
>
>This way, we can have a piece of paper with endorsements from the leaders
>of the industry that we can give to the computing department and the board
>of directors of our colleges and propose that they adopt it, so that all
>students can have access to the Internet.
>

You can *ASK* in this way, but again, you have no INTRINSIC RIGHT
to access to the net. 

>
>It's about time someone ensured Open Access for all students at all
>Universities.  All aboard. . . ?
>

Are you gonna pay for it?? (Don't hand me that "I pay my tuition" or
"I pay my taxes" - this doesn't give you a right to everything your
school owns)
 
I work for a network service provider. You want net access? Sure: 
 
   UNIX System with TCP/IP         $4000
   Startup fee for access to
   INTERNET                        $1000
   CSU/DSU                          $700
   MorningStar PPP                  $795
                                  ------
   TOTAL ONE TIME COSTS            $6495
 
   Monthly recurring costs: LINE COSTS ~$300, ISP FEES: $800
   TOTAL RECURRING COSTS: $1100/Mo.
 
 Will that be check or charge??

 Oh - and no MUDing and FTPing accross the NSFNet - you arent an
authorized user under the Acceptable Use policy. 
 
 Sorry for the flame, but being on the providing end of this deal,
you get a different perspective.

Palmer
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