From: tiff@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Tiffany Frazier)
Subject: Re: the term "vegetarian"
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 18:35:48 GMT

gbelli@opal.tufts.edu wrote:
: In article <1992Aug24.164357.15780@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey) writes:
: > In article <oeZNehC00VpNI990Ff@andrew.cmu.edu> "David F. McWade" <dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
: >>I recently e-mailed the person who puts together the vegetarian FAQ
: >>about including such pseudo-terms as "semi-vegetarian",
: >>"pesco-vegetarian", etc.  I found those terms offensive basically
: >>because use of such terms perpetuates the situation you describe above. 
: >>Unfortunately, the FAQ-maker (I forget his name) refused to remove the
: >>terms on my suggestion (my argument wasn't as coherently stated as yours
: >>is, however).  
: >>
: >>I would, therefore, like to publicly suggest that those terms be removed
: >>from the vegetarian FAQ, please.  Perhaps we can have some debate on
: >>this.  (Is the person who makes the FAQ a vegetarian?)
: >>...
: > 
: > We did have this discussion on the net about a year or so ago,
: > and it is certainly remains one of the top ten "occasional debates" on
: > rec.veg.   The outcome of the earlier discussion was that there is
: > no really good term for occasional meat eaters, but semi-vegetarian
: > seemed the least confusing.  
: > -- 
: >      Jim Lacey  --  my own opinions    

: Okay, I realize I am about to open myself up to all sorts of criticism--so
: here goes.  WHO CARES WHAT PEOPLE CALL THEMSELVES!  Is being vegetarian some
:  holy status that only the chosen few can aspire to?  I have been a veg-head
:  for quite some time, and in all that time I have never felt the need to a)
: feel superior, or b)convert the masses.  It is my own personal lifestyle.
: That's all.  Of course it would be nice if animals were no longer exploited
: by humans, but *it ain't gonna happen*.  Wouldn't it be more constructive 
: for us to help each other attain the goal that we are aspiring to--be it to
: become more healthy, or end exploitation of animals, or whatever you wish
: to accomplish by not eating animals--than to waste our time arguing that a 
: person who eats fish cannot possibly have anything in common with those of
: us (me included) who eat no animal flesh at all, and that that person is not
: entitled to join the exalted ranks of "vegetarian"? (Sorry about the run-on
: sentence)  I enjoy most of the postings in this group, but sometimes...talk
: about a tempest in a teapot.
:      Fire away!!
:      Gretchen Belli
:      Tufts University

Heck - I'm definitely with you on this one... this thread has really been
bothering me, but I've been really too busy to post.

The thing that really bothers me is the idea that the term/class "vegetarian"
is reserved for those that never, ever eat an animal product.
Absolutely no offensive intended, but one person even (jokingly?) suggested
the use of a new term "sushi-vegetarian" and admitted to one "lapse" over the
course of two years.  

Now pause on this please: is it any wonder that the vast majority of the
population would think that vegetarians are part of some "radical fringe"
group - since you can't be one unless you never, ever (at least knowingly)
eat an animal product?

Allow me some additional sentences to complete the thought...

- I'm not trying to label ethical vegetarians as radical fringe - truly,..
  I'm talking appearances.  I think a lot of omnivores don't understand
  that not all vegetarians are vegetarians for reasons other than ethical
  (see next point).  I would speculate that the fastest growing group of
  vegetarians are those that become vegetarians _not_ for ethical reasons.

- the *only* way one is labelled a "vegetarian" is if you are vegetarian for
  ethical (or religious) reasons.  

  Those that are vegetarians (except we can't be) for health and/or
  environmental reasons are not likely to be "true" vegetarians (e.g. not
  likely to _always_ forsake the bad stuff because, for example, it isn't
  going to kill you or the environment to eat a thanksgiving dinner with
  your relatives - period).  It kills the turkey, obviously, but...

- I look at my Webster and I just don't see the word vegetarian including
  the phrase "never, ever".

Since the majority of (at least americans) people are totally ignorant
on nutrition and what vegetarian means - I think one should gently
educate.  At restaurants one is _lucky_ if "vegetarian" is taken to
mean ovo-lacto vegetarian (without hidden other stuff).  We got to try
and make our needs politely clear and I think we should accept the
fact that vegetarian means a lot a different things.  The reality is
that vegetarians are a tiny minority and restricting the term to only
ethical vegetarians is not going to educate people very quickly.  Different
vegetarians have different dietary requirements!

Some side thoughts - I can really understand and sympathize with
the following complaints (especially for ethical veggies):
- people who say "I'm a vegetarian" and you later watch them gobble down
  a hamburger ("Oh well").
- people who seem to have to comment endlessly on the lack of animal
  products in one's food ("How do you get your protein", or my favorite
  type of comments: I can't be a vegetarian because I really need my XXX
  (usually protein, or calcium, iron... when they'd really better be
  served by some factual nutritional knowledge). 
- getting served something (especially at a party) which doesn't at all
  conform to vegetarian and finding you can't eat a thing.

This is getting rather rambly... but
Especially in America, vegetarians are a tiny minority - I think patience
and politeness are the best ways to handle problem situations.   

I watched someone next to me yesterday at UCLA's cafeteria ordering an egg
salad sandwich and really rudely saying "don't set my sandwich down on the
counter" (deli meat scraps were definitely there), "wipe the knife first
please", "wipe it with a rag, not a piece of paper", etc.  I can sympathize
with her plight but why she thinks the person behind the counter has any idea
what to do and why she has to bark commands out - with an exasperated "I'm
a vegetarian" - I don't know.  She came across as bitchy, self-righteous,
part of that radical fringe, etc, etc.  I just winced.

I've really gotten off the track here, but ultimately I really don't
understand this compulsive? need of vegetarians to establish some kind
of "pecking-order" amongst their ranks.  It seems counterproductive (If
we want the world to accept and understand vegetarians and their needs as
something natural/normal) and makes it _obvious_ that some brands of
vegetarians are inherently better than others.

-tiff
--
tiff@cs.ucla.edu
!{rutgers, ucbvax}!ucla-cs!tiff
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg