From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy, Bloody Hypocrisy
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:10:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucsu.1992Apr12.161008.24284
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Apr12.030037.29797@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> mal11@po.CWRU.Edu (Matthew A. Lewis) writes:
>
>
>Abortion.
>
>Now there's something that really pisses me off. No, it's not that
>I think it's right or wrong; it's just that I am so sick of hearing
>people argue in their most ignorant form. And the sad thing is that       
>both sides fit into this form. 

*everyone*?

>Let's break this whole issue down.
>
>1) Stupid idea of morality and abortion----
   ^^^^^^^

Let's look at your 'form' a minute.

>
>One side claims that the other is forcing its "morality" on the other
>and that abortion is not a question of morals. Wrong. One morality
>says abortion is okay, while the other says that it is as base as
>murdur.

I am pro-choice. I do not claim abortion is not a question of morals. I believe
it is *strongly* based in issues of morality and ethical standards.

Your above statement is simply incorrect.



> NEWS FLASH: This is a question of everyone's morality.


Make up your mind.

>You wouldn't think that taking aspirin is a moral question. But to
>some people, modern medicine is a no-no. What about driving a car???
>The Amish don't because they see technology from a moral viewpoint.

How would you feel if the Amish started blowing up computer companies?
Pharmaceuticals companies?  Lobbying for laws that said you couldn't go 
on life support? Get a blood transfusion?


>So, anyone who uses morality as a stance is heading for an illogical
>dead-end. Pro-life morality is irrelevant because it's "pro-life" 
>morality. In addition, pro-choice claims no morality on the issue
>of abortion.

Incorrect, overgeneralized last statement.



> They say it isn't a morality thing.


Who are 'they' and how can you say that?



> A lack of morality
>is a type of morality, just like zero, an absence of value, is a
>value. So please, let's drop the "holier-than-thou" and "it's not
>a moral thing/keep your rosaries off my ovaries" part of this debate.
>And just as one doesn't have to be a neo-Nazi feminist to be pro-choice,
>not every pro-lifer is a religious fanatic. And neither of these two
>types of people are odd. They're just not you and me. (BTW, are
>there any neo-Nazi, religious fanatic feminists out there??? :) )
>Please no more of these shitty stereotypes.
>
>2) Stupid idea of men and abortion
>
>Lately, I've been seeing alot of stuff like:
>
>if men could get pregnent, then you could get an abortion at 7-Eleven.
>etc.
>

You think there is not point in saying that because men *cannot* get 
pregnant, they do not see the issue the same as women?

I would certainly have not said 711, but I do agree that if men *could* get
pregnant (especially legislators) there would not be as great a push
to make carrying a fetus to term a law.



>It's like, abortion relates only to women, so men aren't really
>relevant. What about the woman who's sterile from birth???? Does
>she have a say?? She'll never have the chance even to get pregnant.
>This isn't a moral issue or a women's issue. IT'S AN AMERICAN ISSUE!!!!
>

Hence the name of this group.



>(cool....I didn't split that infinitive....wow)
>
>3) Stupid idea of rights and abortion ---- CRUX OF THIS POSTING
>
>1st thing first. Both sides of this issue are very impassionned.
>Impassionned people are not very rational.


Not as a rule. Impassioned people can be *quite* rational. I have seen several
folks from boths sides of the issue realize that being irrational is not 
helping the debate, so they became rational.




> Hence, neither of these
>two sides are acting very rational. This is where I come in.
>Abortion is a medical procedure. Abortion is not birth-control.


Abortion can be very much birth control. I don't know of *any* pro-choice
person who says it should be used as such, while several 'pro-life' people
have asserted this is *all* it is.

>Contraceptive is something that prevents pregnancy.


There is contraception, then there is birth control. They are not synonymous.

Abortion certainly does control birth, but it did not inhibit the conception.

> Abortion 
>occurs after pregnancy. Many people use abortion as birth control.


Make up your mind.


>I have known dozens of teenage girls who didn't use birth control
>because they could easily get abortions. 4 or 5 abortions by the time
>they were 17. 
>


This is not good, is it.




>PLEASE READ THE CONTINUATION.....I am about to be disconnected
>
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>MaThiEu a. LeWis   "Achtung ya'll........it's good to be down in America
>Thieves Like Us     for a while....and get to Texas.....I'll have a drink
>mal11@po.cwru.edu   on Texas."  - U2  Dallas, Texas  April 5th, 1992 
>                   I LIKE TO WATCH THINGS ON ZOO TV


-- 

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Corrected .sig for those who did not see the absurdity of the original one.
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Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity