HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: janem@smills.mentorg.com (Jane Merrow)
Subject: "You know you're old when" revisited
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 00:10:37 GMT
Reply-To: jane_merrow@mentorg.com
Organization: 'Mentor Graphics Corporation'
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


-- 

My husband and I started rock climbing last fall, and are
now avid climbers, and continuing to improve technically all
the time (very satisfying).  Here's my question.  We're both
40 years old (darn, all those years we could have been climbing
but didn't know) and are wondering how aging affects
climbing abilities.  I assume strength and balance diminish
sometime along the way, and that one might have to be satisfied
with lower-difficulty climbs.  Are there any 50, 60, or 70 year
old climbers out there?  How many years climbing do we have left? 

Another side question, how many folks out there climb with
their spouses?

-----------------------------
Jane Merrow, Mentor Graphics Corporation, Portland, Oregon
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Decking on the 1st Pitch of Touch and Go
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:54:25 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

For those of you that have lamented about decking on the 1st pitch
of Touch and Go on Redgarden Wall in Eldorado Canyon, there is a very
good thread for a runner just before you commit to the traverse.  If
you cannot find the thread, you have been spending too much time in the
climbing gym staring at big bolts, get out and get on real rock!

Let's hear it for natural pro!

Bruce
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sshostek@mentorg.com (Steve Shostek)
Subject: Re: Favorite Kor quote
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:27:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: mentor
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 

In article <1992Nov11.160208.12785@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com>, kjl@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (K 
|> 
|> My favorite is Kor saying "Don't fall now or we'll both go!" 
|> to numerous partners throughout the '60s.  
|> 
|> I love yelling this one to my second anytime my belay is marginal.

One of my favorites was when I was on a runout face pitch and my 
partner asked, "Are you sure that you doubled back your harness 
belt?" I got him back on the next runout slab with "Your shoe
came untied!"


-- 
* steve_shostek@mentorg.com         | Harmony with land is like harmony with  *
* sshostek@mentorg.com              | a friend. You cannot cherish his right  *
* {uunet, attunix}!mntgfx!sshostek  | hand and chop off his left.             *
*                                   |          --Aldo Leopold                 *
From: calum@ivy.clu.cf.ac.uk (Calum Gordon)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Diemburger and Scott lectures
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:28:31 GMT
Reply-To: Calum Gordon <calum@clu.cf.ac.uk>
Organization: Computational Linguistics Unit, Univ of Wales College of Cardiff
Posting-Software: GNUS: NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs

In article <BxK5wo.1Kw@world.std.com> gnray@world.std.com (Garry N Ray) writes:

>  Do these fellows ever lecture in the U.S.? Or any of the other European
>  paragons I've been idolizing for the past 15 years?

not much chance of Scott lecturing in the US in the near future seeing
as he's off to Antartica next Monday to climb Vinson + other unclimbed
peaks. BTW, he's taking along relatively inexperienced "clients" to
give them a taste of a big mountain, and apparently there's one place
still to fill! I'm sure any climber with a spare 12,000 sterling would
jump at the chance ... (that's 12,000 from Tierra del Fuego ...)
--
** Calum Gordon <calum@clu.cf.ac.uk>      ** TEL: +44-222-874000-x5310 **
** Computational Linguistics Unit (CLU)   ** FAX: +44-222-874293       **
** University of Wales College of Cardiff ** JAN: <calum@uk.ac.cf.clu> **
** ----- "People with (a) CLU use Suns; CLUless people use Macs" ----- **
From: tron@tc.fluke.COM (Peter Barbee)
Subject: Re: Fall factors
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:54:55 GMT

>Flame on!  Assumption ... force = hurt, meaning that the force applied
>to the rope is the same (has to be, the newt's 3rd law!) as the force the
>rope applies to you.  The rope factor of the fall is a measurement of the
>ropes ability to absorb this force.  If a 20' factor 2 = a 100' factor 2,
>as far as the rope's ability to dissipate the force - then the force you
>will feel from the rope will also be equal, at 20' or 100'.
>
>You even said it yourself "so it makes exactly the same force as a small fall
>with the same fall factor)"
>
>Somebody else can do the experiment though :-)
>
>Newton understood these things - thats why he free soloed so much :-)
>

Come on everyone!  OF course the force from the rope is directly
proportional to the fall factor - that is what fall factor is all about
and it is right.

But the forces that hurt a climber are not all due to the rope stopping
your descent.  That is what my posting was all about.  Read AND
comprehend!

Peter B
From: mfd@aber.ac.uk (Margaret Frances Disbury)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: IMAX theaters
Summary: The same but different
Keywords: screamers
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:04:49 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <1992Nov4.203123.60399@cc.usu.edu> sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:
>Anyone heard anything about an IMAX theater presentation that includes
>footage of a climber taking a big whipper? A colleague at work said he
>saw such a film in San-somewhere or another, but had no further details.
>Claimed it was pretty good though.
>Bob.

Not seen this one about climbing, but I saw something similar about a
stuntman take a screamer from the top wing of a biplane doing aerobatics (it 
sideslipped down to catch him).  It convinced my inner ear that I was flying 
like a stone and I wouldn't mind betting if you do get to see it, you'll be 
on the rock with the climber.

Fran
-- 
*******************************************************************************
Fran Disbury     JANET: mfd@uk.ac.aber    Internet: mfd@aber.ac.uk 
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: storm@geog.utah.edu (John Storm)
Subject: Re: Fall factors
Organization: DIGIT Lab
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 18:55:18 GMT

Lets make my last posting a little more conclusive for those
who are not convinced:

Again an assumption is needed, unless you want me to go into the proof?
Rope factor of the fall = the ropes ability to absorb energy (slow you down).

Ok now:

force = mass x acceleration OR force = mass x deceleration (same thing)

Since your wieght remains constant = M
slow you down (deceleration) has to remain constant (factor2=factor2)
therefore the force must remain the same! and so must the HURT :-)

What might be a conceptual leep for those without calculus, is that
when you take a 100' factor 2 fall it takes you longer to stop, compared
to when you take a 10' factor 2 - however your rate of deceleration is
the same (thats what a factor means - if you can't decellerate fast
enough the rope breaks, climbing ropes have got to at least handle a
factor 2 fall since that is the worse case scenario expected)

Sorry to beat it into the ground - but I wasn't the one who brought it
back up 8^)

John Storm	Internet: storm@geog.utah.edu
SLC UT		Climber's-net: bigwall.somewhere.Iwhish
From: nicolas@stam.nl (Nico Veenkamp)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: International Flavo(u)r
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:24:23 GMT
Organization: Stam Tijdschriften bv, Rijswijk, The Netherlands

Question: have any of you climbed in the Belgian Ardennes. Specifically 
in Dave or Freyr.
If so, what were you're favourite routes. I am gong there in the weekend 
of 21 november.


      *================================================================*
      |  Nico Veenkamp	        | You write, we publish                |
      |  Stam Tijdschriften bv  | -------------------------------------|
      |  P.O. Box 235           | Internet : nicolas@stam.nl           |
      |  2280 AE  Rijswijk      | FidoNet  : 2:281/1.7                 |
      |  The Netherlands        | BIX      : nicolas                   |
      *================================================================*
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Carabiner brake, was Re: No More Write-Ups?
Date: 12 Nov 1992 13:25:47 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <6Re5TB2w165w@stam.nl>,
nicolas@stam.nl (Nico Veenkamp) writes:
>
>Question: What is a Sticht plate.
"Sticht" is a German name for a round metal plate with one or two
slots in it.  A bight of the rope is pushed through the slot and
cliped into a locking carabiner.  You belay by graping each side of
the rope as it emerges fron the slot.  When you move your hands
apart the rope locks.  Addenda: a) My Sticht plate is made in
Germany by Salewa so it is not really an English name, b) some
plates have a coil spring on the back side that helps prevent
unintended lock-up, c) you can actual operate it with one hand but
its easier to show than to describe, d) one c*a*n rapell with this
device but it is not recommended since they tend to get very hot.

>For rappelling I use a piece of metal in the form of a figure eight.
>What is the english name for this device. Following up to this leads me
>to the next question. Is there a dictionary that translates english
>climber terms to german/french and vice-versa.
In American-English this is called a "figure eight".  In
British-English it is called a "figure of eight".  I've never seen
such a dictionary but would like to.  It should probably translate
between American-English and British-English too!

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: K2
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 18:03:51 GMT

In article <106480303@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM
(Jeff Elison) writes:
>> It was a military secret.
      ^^^
>Once again Eugene is just protecting beginners by not helping them.  He's
>afraid you would be killed by government agents if you new the dark "military
>secret" of the K peaks.

Not?  Surely you jest.  Far better help than spoon feeding them information.
UK Ministry of Defense.  Gee, I never thought you to be one of those
conspiracy theorists.

>> So write Brad Washburn and ask an original source for data.

This stands.  It's the process not the end result to learn.  As good as
writing referring another poster to write Chuck Yeager.  Do it.

>Mort (give me a break)

Right.
All you have to do is let go of the hands and lean backward. More more more...

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: jacobson5821@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Climbing in Iowa?
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:32:42 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Has anyone ever climbed in Iowa.  PROBABLY NOT!  I am looking for a climbing
group in Iowa.  I've gone to Backbone State Park several times, but have only
tried a few cracks.  

                        Thanks, 

                            Paul

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: kochte@stsci.edu
Subject: Jeff Lowe coming to Baltimore, Maryland
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 15:05:40 GMT

Big-time climber, coming to Baltimore?? That's right! Jeff Lowe (whom some of
you may like, some may dislike, and some may feel neutral about) is showing up
here in Baltimore next sunday for a slide/video talk. Open to the public
(though I'm sure 'the public' really doesn't know much about him, or his
accomplishments). Below is a copy of the flyer I acquired:

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
		THE LAST GREAT HIMALAYAN CHALLENGE

			   Featuring

			   JEFF LOWE

	    "America's Most Visionary Himalayan Climber"

Join Jeff as he takes you on a retrospective tour of his 35 years of climbing
experience illustrated with slides and video. The show will end with Jeff's
plan to attempt to climb a new route on the Southwest Face of Mt Everest "solo"
in the Spring of 1993.

Date: Sunday, November 15, 1992 @ 6:00p
Where: Towson State University
Smith Hall - Main Lecture Hall
Cost: $6.00
For more info call: 410-467-9727

Hosted by: Towson State University & Baltimore's Clipper City Rock Gym
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Disclaimer: I am NOT doing this for either Towson State or CCRG! I posted this
for anyone in the area who would be interested in seeing/hearing Jeff Lowe
speak. Can't tell you where Smith Hall is, either, but I can get you to
Towson.....
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: Spouses as partners
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 01:13:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Nov6.205220.5648@ncar.ucar.edu> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
>
>...had a difficult time climbing with Britt until (1) I improved
>to within a few grades of his ability, and (2) I started leading and thus
>could feel I was taking, if not equal responsibility, at least some
>of the responsibility of the climb.

I had the opposite experience with my wife.  When she started leading, I
had a hard time dealing with the risk (to her) emotionally.  This is
not a sexist thing either.  I had another good friend who expressed
the same feelings toward climbing with his brother.  My wife severely
broke her foot in a leader fall and lost most of her interest in climbing
as a result, so it is a moot point.  I'm glad I wasn't climbing with
her when it happened.

Watch out for ledges.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: RElearning to lead
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 22:30:04 GMT

Just do the same old recommended thing:
Start significantly easier and work up in the progression.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: brendan@buck.ac.uk (Brendan Murphy)
Subject: Re: Is there anybody...OUT THERE?
Organization: University of Buckingham
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 18:29:13 GMT

eazcdr@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (C.Rudd) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.185538.16843@buck.ac.uk> brendan@buck.ac.uk (Brendan Murphy
>) writes:

       [text deleted]
   
>>The long overdue guidebook to Yorkshire limestone (including such places as
>>Malham and Kilnsey) has just been published.
>  
>arguably this was upstaged by Mick Ryan's Rockfax which points the way for
>future guides - no long rambling text for one!

IMHO, the new Yorkshire limestone guide (and the vast majority of other 
"traditional" UK guide books) are *infinitely* superior to Rockfax.  I bought a
copy of Rockfax to supplement the old guide (yes, I'm that old) as a stop-gap 
while waiting for the definitive guide.  Simplistic topos with no descriptions
are fine for bolted sports climbs where the route is usually obvious, but often
inadequate for trad routes.  Such topos are only one step up from painting the
grade at the bottom of the route.  OK, the new guide is expensive, but still 
*much* better value for money than the Rockfax.

>>...little new route potential in England and Wales.....
>  
>I think you'd be surprised!

OK, but it's all relative.  There are entire crags/valleys in Scotland, Spain,
etc that are untouched.  

Brendan
-- 
********************************************************************************
Brendan Murphy					brendan%buck.ac.uk@uknet.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science			Tel: 0280 814080
University of Buckingham, MK18 1EG, UK		Fax: 0280 822245
********************************************************************************
From: mic@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Clarke)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 20:04:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Fall factors
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Ft. Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

Postscript, please.  Or at least an anonymous FTP site from whence we
can fetch the Postscript ourselves.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: rainer@spot.Colorado.EDU (Rainer Malzbender)
Subject: Re: No More Write-Ups?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:33:34 GMT

In article <8f085Q600axfAPjV8A@andrew.cmu.edu> "Christopher L. Morrow" <cm43+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Just a spare piece of information, just trying to help this guy out a
>bit. Although it i pretty bad to have started a multi-pitch climb
>without enough belay devices for all those involved.

Thanks. Yes, it would be somewhat bad to start a multi-pitch climb without
sufficient belay devices, although there are safe techniques for belaying
without them (the real problem was a hip belay, and a bad one at that).
Unfortunately, I only became aware of the lack of gear as I reached
the belay! Since then I've become a lot more conscientious about checking
things before starting out.


-- 
Rainer M. Malzbender      'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice.
Fyzzicks                   And when justice is gone, there's always force.
CU Boulder                 And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jking@socs.uts.edu.au (smathy werp)
Subject: Re: Fall factors
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date:  9 Nov 92 05:16:44 GMT


storm@geog.utah.edu (John Storm) writes:

>You even said it yourself "so it makes exactly the same force as a small fall
>with the same fall factor)"

john ..
	exactly .. i am agreeing with you .. big fall pain = small fall pain
	IF both FallFactors are equal .. when i said -- the less it hurts --
	i was talking relatively .. anyway .. the point is that it was a 
	forward from someone who said that big falls hurt more .. and i was
	correcting them .. FallFactor is the only relavent thing to the
	pain of a UIAA passed rope (within reason) .. let this be the last
	FallFactor entry ..

	thats all
--


	| Life: Jason | IRC: elephant | email: jking@socs.uts.EDU.AU |

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: gnray@world.std.com (Garry N Ray)
Subject: Re: Fall Factor II
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:47:36 GMT

I have a question about this absurd discussion: (flame on) is this what
you guys think about when you're on the 6th pitch and a tenuous stance? I
mean, are you really measuring the rope length from last placement divided
by the total rope length out and trying to factor rope dynamism and
climber weight to determine.....WHAT?!?!? First of all, you're forgetting
to factor in the potential for pulled placements, and how much total force
they're removing from the previously calculated fall weight, which you
can't figure anyhow, since it's too fucking cold and your legs hurt, and
your leader is on a mangy rotten hold with no foot placement
and....Jeesus...what an insane discussion. Put more pro in at the bottom,
and don't do insane runouts! 

I HATE THIS DISCUSSION!!! 

(flame off)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison)
Subject: Re: Light and warm sythetic bag: PARADOX?
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:39:45 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

Gen M. Kanai (Gen.M.Kanai@dartmouth.edu) wrote:

: I am considering the "Gold-Eck" bags sold by Mountain Tools, but I have
: no idea how good they are.  Does anyone on the net have any experience
: or heard second or even third hand info on these bags?

For what its worth: this is the only sleeping bag that 
A5 (big-wall equipment company) carries.  I took that to be somewhat of
a big endorsement.

: 
: Can anyone tell me what fill they like and why?  Does anyone have a
: good idea for me?  How about bivy bags?

You might want to check out the new Primaloft synthetic fill.  Caribou
is the only Company that uses it so far (I think).  Supposed to have 
the qualities of down but the advantages of synthetic.  (I did alot of 
looking at these bags.  I think I'll buy one if I ever decide I need one 
bad enough to spend the money.)

--Bobbie Morrison
From: eazcdr@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (C.Rudd)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Is there anybody...OUT THERE?
Date: 11 Nov 92 12:31:43 GMT
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham

In article <1992Nov6.185538.16843@buck.ac.uk> brendan@buck.ac.uk (Brendan Murphy) writes:

>>I wish more Brits, Aussies, Kiwis and other species of exotic
>>fruits and nuts would post more. Those of us who have moved from
>>the Empire to the colonies would like to hear from home.
>
  We're just too darned busy!

>The weather here this summer has been pretty poor which has made it a
>relatively quiet cragging season for a lot of people.  Having said this, a
>young British guy (whose name escapes me) has just repeated Ben Moon's "Hubble"
>which I think is given French 8c+ ................

  Malcom Smith (Scottish)

>Rachel Farmer has just become the first British woman to crank a route graded
>French 8a (at Malham).
>
  Rain Dogs

>The long overdue guidebook to Yorkshire limestone (including such places as
>Malham and Kilnsey) has just been published.

 arguably this was upstaged by Mick Ryan's Rockfax which points the way for
 future guides - no long rambling text for one!

>...little new route potential in England and Wales.....

 I think you'd be surprised! 

Chris Rudd
Mechanical Engineering
Nottingham
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jagat@gda.cadence.com (Jagat Patel)
Subject: What to choose for eye protection (prescription) ...
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:42:43 GMT


        I am looking for some opinions on choosing eye
   protection (prescription) while climbing (against 
   high wind and sun/snow blinding).  Are ski goggles
   over the regular prescription glasses the way to go?
   Is there a better way?  If not, what ski goggles
   work the best?

   - Jagat.
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: inDirect Euro-cage rattling
Date: 12 Nov 92 11:12:25 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

I'm really glad I misposted here, this group is MUCH more fun than 
rec.climbing. I may have to unsubscribe to them, but VERY QUIETLY - I 
wouldnt want to disturb their slumbers by excessively noisy use of the
'u' key.

Cheers

Andy
Newsgroups: rec.climbing