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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:26:50 EDT
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From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2582
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                          THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                               Issue # 2582

                           Monday, April 13, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                       Birmingham Pain Clinic Visit #4
                           Re: Herbal vs Chemical
                      Re: ASL as a Structured Language
                               Re: Lipreading
                    Prominent Deaf People, who are they?
                              Re: SIGN LANGUAGE
                           Me And We And Deafness
                              Re: Deaf Culture
                                  DEAFNESS
                    Prominent Deaf People, Who Are They?


                                ******


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Subject: Birmingham Pain Clinic Visit #4
From: Alan.Hess@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org (Alan Hess)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:261/1000 - Nerve Center, Pikesville MD


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

In a missive of <Apr 03 18:23> Arthur Saus (1:376/72.160)
writes to Alan Hess:

 AS> with this lies in semantics.  There is a significant difference in the
 AS> patient who has "chronic pain" and the patient who had "acute
 AS> recurring pain" although this is not generally recognized by patients
 AS> and medical personnel who have not specifically trained in pain
 AS> management.  The true "chronic pain" patient is very likely to abuse a
 AS> narcotic and become addicted to it, while the narcotic does not
 AS> actually provide the pain relief the patient is seeking; ie the
 AS> narcotic is the wrong drug to treat the problem.

I have tried all sorts of medications in the attempt to control my
pain problems.  Narcotics, anti-convulsants, anti-depressants, and
I can't remember what else.  I never went above the levels I was
prescribed, since I want to keep what little control I have over my
life.  But, because of the "narcotics are addictive, so they're
bad" theory, I never got any until the pains had already been
building for six years.  At that point, the narcotics were
ineffective at low doses, and I didn't want to take real high
doses.  There was no sensible reason not to try narcotics early
on.

 AS> not addiction.  Again I believe we are disagreeing on semantice here
 AS> rather than the actual issue.

Could be.  *adh*

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!261!1000!Alan.Hess
Internet: Alan.Hess@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Herbal vs Chemical
From: Eagle.Eyes@f100.n300.z44.fidonet.org (Eagle Eyes)
Organization: FidoNet node 44:300/100 - Phub 1, Tucson AZ


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

AS>A discussion of mechanisms of regulation of endorphins in relation to
AS>exogenous opiate administration is an entirely different subject than a
AS>discussion about antibiotic administration.  Steroid medications also have
AS>this "feedback regulation" effect on the body just as opioid medications do,
AS>but this is not true for antibiotics.

  But in my original message I was not refering to herbal use as an anti-
biotic, but as a muscle relaxer.

> As is true with chemically synthesized drugs, only the
> reaction are often more violent than with herbals.

AS>"violent" is a poor choice of wording unless you are trying to arouse emotio
AS>in your reader (which I suspect may be your intent).  I would agree that the
AS>action (note I said action, not reaction) is more specific with a purified
AS>drug, than with herbal preparations.

 Better hit your chemistry books again. Reactions due occur and they are often
described as violent without conotations of emotional reference.

> You are obviously not aware of the ability to utilize bioengineering to
> clone plants and maintain a very pure and consistent viable strain. This
> has been done commercially for over twenty years.

AS>I'm probably much more aware of bioengineering than you may have realized,
AS>but you cannot obtain the purity and consistancy from plant to plant that yo
AS>can from one batch of a purified drug to the next.

 Yes you can as it is being done commercially.

> It is that chemical purity that is often the problem. There have been
> instances of side effects (not apparent in the herbal form) that have to
> be compensated for with more drugs. (Here's one pill for your problem and
> three to take care of the problems that it will cause.)

AS>You're suggesting that there are no side effects with herbal preparations??!
AS>Come on!!  You know this is not true unless the dose of active ingredient is
AS>too small to have any effect on the body!!

  Herbal preparations can have side effects, however it is those small doses
that can have significant effects. You continue to rely on Western dogma and
refuse to accept what the physicians of other cultures have shown to be true.

> You fail to understand the main idea of herbal medicine. You want to
> use the lowest dosage possible to assist the body in healing itself.

AS>This is not different than the main idea of prescribing conventional
AS>medications.  All drugs should be used in the lowest dose needed to get the
AS>job done.

  If only that were true in actual practice. All too often, I stopped
doctors from overdosing patients when I was in the Navy.

> Too often, Western medicine thinks that to blast away with megadoses is
> the best way.

AS>This may be your impression, but I would challenge you to support that
AS>argument with any medical literature.  Medical students are never taught tha
AS>"to blast away with megadoses is the best way".  Your statement is just
AS>plainly not true. Instead, physicians are taught how to select the proper
AS>drug for the patients particular problem, and one in which the side effects
AS>are minimal or may be used to the patient's advantage when possible. This
AS>basic philosophy of using the lowest dose possible to accomplish the job is
AS>not different from the philosophy of dosing you suggest for herbal medicine.

  Come to Florida and take a look at the geriatric clientel. They come
walking out of the local pharmacies with bags of pills, written by 3 or 4
doctors. All too often we see where the doctor fails to check and see what
their other doctors are prescribing. If the pharmacy is busy, the pharmacist
can't check or just doesn't bother.

  Do you know the real reason that pharmaceutical companies refrain from
herbals?  They haven't figured out how to patent a plant.

 * DeLuxe2 1.21  * What you learn after you know it all is important.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!44!300!100!Eagle.Eyes
Internet: Eagle.Eyes@f100.n300.z44.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: ASL as a Structured Language
From: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:382/71 - BitStream, Round Rock Tx


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Pat, your post to Wayne S. is good. I'd like to know more about
your work with ASL. Wayne's argument (I'm sure were not meant to be
that way) are old hearized arguments meant to debunk the value of
ASL and once again encourage Deaf people to let go of it in favor
of pseudo languages such as SEE, SE, etc. I was/am planning to
respond to his post and am debating whether to repost Dr Supalla's
and Dr. Davis' reserach in this area to show what research proves
as opposite to speculations concerning ASL.

In truth, some spoken languages have been judged unstructured by
western people or westernizers of other cultures simply because it
didn't fit the western way of thinking. This is a gross injustice
to any people who use their native languages. ASL is astnoishingly
similar to most other lnguages and English contrary to the same. In
some areas this is so evident that half-serious questions arise as
to whether English is a true language in the strictest sense.
Personally I consider thsi questions s foolish as the question
about the validity of ASL as a language. Yet, there it is; the
question. It goes to show that if anyone chooses to find fault with
other people and their ways, they will.

Your post was great. i only wish you could have expanded n on it a
bit. I hope you share more reserach info on this area.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!382!71!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Lipreading
From: Karen.Keil@hnews.fidonet.org (Karen Keil)
Organization: The Handicap News, Shelton CT (203) 337-1607


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

JD  I noticed that I began to depend on my ability to read lips
JD  at my work
JD  after I took the sign courses....I worked in a very noisey
JD  place
JD  (machine shop) and I almost got to the point that I was
JD  asking people to
JD  look directly at me so I could "hear" what they said.
JD  I can imagine the WORK it takes to sucessfully read lips...I
JD  can do a
JD  little (with people who speak clearly and look directly at
JD  me, but BOY!
JD  do I miss a lot!) My friend used to (as he called it) "turn
JD  off his
JD  voice" for me and it really helped. Thanks for the
JD  information I really
JD  appreciate it! Are there special names to the classes in
JD  which this is
JD  taught?

That is really interesting that you fell into lipreading your
co-workers in the very noisy environment.  It seems we fall back on
other senses when one sense wouldn't work for a situation.

As to 'special names' to the classes in which lipreading is
taught...well, there doesn't seem to be any special terms.
'Lipreading' and 'speechreading' are the same term for the skill of
reading the lips/face.

The Alexander Graham Bell Association catalog has items such as:

1.  What People Say.  (book)  by Kathryn A. Ordman and Mary Pauline
Ralli.  An update of the classic Nitchie School Course in
Lipreading.  136 pp.  $10.95

2.  Lipreading Made Easy by Audrey B. Greenwald, M.S., CCC.  (book)
A photo-primer written to 'satisfy a specific unfilled need...the
need for easy practice-at-home material for people who want to learn
the basics of lipreading.  32 pp. $13.95

3.  Lipreading Made Easy videotape.  Can be used with the book above
or independently.  2 hours 15 min.  VHS format.  $75.00

4.  Speech Reading:  An Aid to Communication by Joan Good Erickson.
'Provides the hearing rehabilitation professional with 24 unit-based
speech reading lessons and numerous suggestions for others.....This
stresses the use of anticipatory and relevant informational cues as
well as the visual cues....In addition to presenting basic rules for
the beginning speech reader and directions for using the workbook, a
list of resources for hearing-impaired adults is included...may be
used for home practice.'  73 pp. $10.00

5.  Read My Lips!  Videotape Series (6 tapes). Can be bought
separately or as a set.  Goes from basic to complex situations.  VHS
format.  $185.00 for whole set.

6.  Speechreading Tapes Developed at the National Technical
Institute for the Deaf at RIT.
11 tapes.  Appropriate for both individual and group instruction.
Each videotape has several worksheets allowing individual work at
own pace.  A separte workbook plus a copy of SPEECHREADING
STRATEGIES by Marjorie Jacobs and E. William Clymer comes with each
tape.  Available singly or as a set.

There follows a description of each tape but won't type this here
except for the titles...
#1  Survivial Sentences  $75.00
#2  Survivial Sentences   "
#3  Survivial Sentences
and so on to tape 7 for different situations.
Tapes 8 thru 11 are ON THE JOB SOCIAL SENTENCES.

All are $75.00 each or $750.00 for the whole set plus a bonus gift
of a classroom instruction Manual.

Realizing that this is far more, more, more than what you asked for
in your questions about special terms.....but just wanted to give
you an idea of the area.

As for classes to go to, offhand I'm not aware of any, but schools,
universities and hospitals might be offering them.

Yes, lipreading is work and takes lots of patience and strength.
BUT I'm not sorry that I learned to lipread....well, the choice was
made for me by my parents...or rather..the professionals they went
to for help after my hearing loss was confirmed.  It's a good skill
to have in my toolbox.

My mother asked me if I ever wished that I went the other way and
became part of the deaf world instead of the hearing one, and I said
no, but I think I would be more isolated from my own relatives if
they did not sign and I could communicate by sign only.  Actually,
no matter where one chooses to go, there's always some isolation in
one way or another.  I'm straddling the fence between both worlds
and can participate only partially in either one.  Oops...sorry for
wandering off the subject!

By the way, my aunt and uncle used to live in Alaska, too, in
Fairbanks.  I have never been up there, unfortunately.

So long for now! :-)

Karen

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!809.0!Karen.Keil
Internet: Karen.Keil@p0.f809.n104.z1.fidonet.org

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!Karen.Keil
Internet: Karen.Keil@hnews.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Prominent Deaf People, who are they?
From: Karen.Keil@f71.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Karen Keil)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:343/71 - Seattle Hearing Imp, Seattle WA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 OA> She is working in the Lexington Institute in New York under a
 OA> College work study program, and she has been asked to compile a
 OA> list of prominent people who are deaf and who are minorities
 OA> (black, hispanic, indian, oriental, etc) past or present.

 OA> It seems that they are not too easy to find.

 OA> As a side question,this is for my own curiosity, are there any
 OA> books written on studies of how other societies, ancient or modern,
 OA> have dealt with the deaf people? Was there a serious effort to
 OA> communicate with them or were they just considered freaks?

In answer to question #2,  Deafness, by David Wright, has some
information on how past centuries treated the deaf or educated
them.  By the way, for the most part, any history of the deaf you
come across will deal with the education of the deaf since they are
closely related.  Wright's material deals mostly with European
history.

As for prominent deaf people of minorities...that's a hard
one....all the ones recalled to my mind are/were white or
European.

Deaf Heritage: A Narrative History of Deaf America by Jack Gannon
would probably have information on deaf minority people, but it has
been 10 years since I've read it.

Deaf Women: A Parade Through the Decades by Mabs Holcomb and Sharon
Wood (Dawn Sign Press) $19.95 is a compilation of information,
history, anecedotes and research about deaf women, past and
present....has more than 170 photographs.

If I find more, I'll post it here.

Back to #2.....yes, in some cultures, deaf people were considered
freaks and non-persons.  Chinese people left deaf babies on
mountain tops to die.  Europeans in the middle ages didn't believe
that deaf people had souls and that it wasn't worth the trouble to
teach Christianity to them (not all Europeans believed this,
though).

Hope this helps a little.

Karen Keil

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!343!71!Karen.Keil
Internet: Karen.Keil@f71.n343.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: SIGN LANGUAGE
From: Jay.Croft@p0.f710.n107.z1.fidonet.org (Jay Croft)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/710.0


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Simple.  Use the "dominant hand," and imagine the other hand.

I once saw an elderly deaf man participate in a discussion in a club for
deaf people.  His fingers and hands were completely paralyzed, but he
could move his arms, and the folks understood him.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!107!710.0!Jay.Croft
Internet: Jay.Croft@p0.f710.n107.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Me And We And Deafness
From: Hugues.Blanchet@f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org (Hugues Blanchet)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:167/136 - Ab.'s Place, Montreal PQ


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

James....

KK>This makes it refer to the Deaf identity as a
KK>group.  I have mixed  feelings about the Deaf identity to regard
KK>oneself as a deaf person first, then an unique individual second.
KK>Despite my subscribing to a variety of deaf magazines and
KK>newspapers, I still regard myself as 'me', not as part of
KK>some group.

  I'm getting to know Karen a lot!!  The more I read her the more I
  see somebodyt I'm getting to like a lot.  Her thoughts are just like
  mine!!!

KK>This makes it refer to the Deaf identity as a
KK>group.  I have mixed  feelings about the Deaf identity to regard
KK>oneself as a deaf person first, then an unique individual
KK>second.

  She's still right here.  We each have our own identity and some of us
  might think that we are part of a deaf group.  I think that I'm part
  of a group allright but the name of this group is called "Human
  Beings". I don't believe in grouping people (like deafs or blinds)
  and creating their own culture.  It's putting oneself apart of the
  society.  I KNOW I'm deaf and God knows I've accepted it quite a while
  ago.

JW>     I hope your feelings are less mixed now. Mine
JW>were once mixed too. I used to hate sign language in any form. I used to
JW>detest deaf people, though I was deaf myself. Then I discovered both myself
JW>and my Deaf self, and I love them both. It does not mean I reject others,
JW>either "deaf" or hearing. It means I'm not ashamed of who and what I am. It
JW>means I under the "me" better. It means I accept my deafness and love  "my
JW>people." That I will not waste my time and life trying to be something I am
JW>not. I simply am. And I belong.

  My feelings were also mixed in the begining.  When I started joining
  up with a group of hearing impaired people, I saw something I didn't
  like.   The day I went to a conference given by this association and
  that the person giving the conference asked the following question to
  everyone; "Should we try to integrate to the hearing society or should
  we have our own", I left and never went back again.  I was VERY MAD
  indeed!!! If they didn't know the answer to such a stupid question and
  even ASKED SUCH A STUPID QUESTION, then I didn't belong to the group
  because for me, everything was as clear as crystal!!!  I AM PART OF
  ONE SOCIETY, and that society is made of HUMAN BEINGS!  That's it!
  There is absolutely NOTHING else to it.

  After all James, if this was correct and that such societies should
  exist, then their should also be a society for those who don't have a
  heart in their chests, those who have mashed patatoes for brains,
  those who beat their dogs, those who...etc..etc...etc...

  I've noticed that since I joined this conference, a lot of people here
  are STAND UP people (I'm getting to like SilentTalk much more!!!)
  I think that those who were born deaf feel part of a culture.  Not so
  for those who have lost their hearing during their lifetime.  (Well
  not me anyways!) Those who lost their hearing during their lifetime
  don't feel PART of a deaf culture and don't feel APART from the deaf
  people neither. This isn't the same for normal hearing people. They
  feel different from both groups (people that are born deaf and people
  that lost their hearing). Since we (Karen and me) have heard before,
  we KNOW what both groups are like and that's the reason we do not feel
  apart from neither one. I think that we are better placed to see that
  the said *cultures* are only in peoples minds. They are not *cultures*
  but groups of people that identify to each others.  I identify to
  both, hearing impaired AND normal hearing people.

Regards,

Hugues

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!167!136!Hugues.Blanchet
Internet: Hugues.Blanchet@f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Deaf Culture
From: Wayne.Silsbee@p1.f222.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Wayne Silsbee)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/222.1 - N.W. Family History, Oregon City OR


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

In article <20722@handicap.news> hayes@godzilla.cis.ohio-state.edu
(Patrick Hayes) writes:

> ASL is very structured. This argument seems to be decended from the old
> one that ASL doesn't have a grammar which is simply false. The problem is
> that the grammatical structure of ASL is so different from that of spoken
> languages that it looks like it's from Mars. And, being a fairly new area
> of study, there is still a lot of research and debate about some aspects
> of ASL's grammar.If you're trying to analyze it in terms of grammars
> developed for spoken languages it is going to look unstructured.

Okay. I'll accept this analysis. It *looks* unstructured. From my
original argument, this changes nothing. It still *causes* the
shortening and "de-structuralizing" of English when English is
signed.

Right? Wrong?

Wayne

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!222.1!Wayne.Silsbee
Internet: Wayne.Silsbee@p1.f222.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: DEAFNESS
From: Leti.Labell@f421.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Leti Labell)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:109/421 - Twilight Clone Mac, Rockville MD


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

In your message to ANN STALNAKER you say:
>  When one girl asked me if I'm sorry I'm
> deaf, I looked at her straight in the eye and said "No. I like
> myself for who I am."

I'm curious.  By that statement do you mean that if  you had a
choice between hearing and being deaf, you would choose being
deaf?  If so, I find that hard to understand.  I like MYSELF for
who I am, but I certainly wish that I had good knees and could
climb stairs like other people, or that I had eyesight as good as
other people, and I DO feel sorry for myself sometimes.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!421!Leti.Labell
Internet: Leti.Labell@f421.n109.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Prominent Deaf People, Who Are They?
From: Karen.Keil@p0.f809.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Karen Keil)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/809.0 - Fantasy Mountain, Golden CO


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Some more information for you....

One 'prominent' minority deaf person is a black football player
named Kenny Walker, who plays for the Denver Broncos.  He was
featured in a magazine, The Voice, Aug/Sept. 1991, p.16.  Also,
several articles in my local paper appeared on him, which I saved.

The book, Deafness, by David Wright, has the information on deaf
people and how people treated/educated them in Chapter 10.  Even
though it's mostly European history, it's broad enough to include
other world cultures.  He said that information before the last few
centuries is scanty.

Another source of information you might want to explore is the
Gaullaudet Encyclopedia of Deaf People and Deafness, by John Van
Cleve, editor.  It's a three volume set of the 'first comprehensive
collection of research and information on deaf people and
deafness....it cover such topics such as....biographical accounts of
historic figures.'  You may be able to find this in a library.  It's
expensive...$330.00....hence my suggestion to check the
library...that's where I've seen it.

Hope this helps.

Karen.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!809.0!Karen.Keil
Internet: Karen.Keil@p0.f809.n104.z1.fidonet.org




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                                ******

             End of Issue # 2582 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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