From: psyrobtw@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Mormonism
Date: 18 Dec 92 02:24:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <92351.154122HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET>, HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET writes...

If I remember correctly, this ID is William Hamblin, from the 
History department from BYU. During one of his last posts on trm, he 
said that those who are on the opposite side of his views were like 
creatures from the movie, _Night of the Living Dead_. Nice to see you 
again, Bill.

> 
>   Some anti-Mormons are claiming that the LDS Church teachings that
>traditional Christianity is in "total apostasy."  This is utter nonsense.
>By apostasy we mean that traditional Christians have lost the "fullness
>of the Gospel" (i.e. correct doctrines) and priesthood authority.  Since
>we agree with many Christian denominations on many more doctrines
>then we disagree, why would we claim that everything other
>denominations believe is "total apostasy."  In fact, this is an invention
>of the anti-Mormons.
>    The basis of their charge stems from a misunderstanding of a passage
>in LDS scripture.

[...]

>    As proof that my interpretation of this passage is not sheer sophistry
>to hide the <true> LDS doctrine, let me quote from the following
>statement by the First Presidency of the Church (i.e. Prophet and two
>councilors):
><Statement of the First Presidency [of the Church of Jesus Christ of
>Latter-day Saints] Regarding God's Love for all Mankind (Feb. 15, 1978)
>    Based upon ancient and modern revelation, The Church of Jesus
>Christ of Latter-day Saints gladly teaches and declares the Christian
>doctrine that all men and women are brothers and sisters, not only by
>blood relationship from common mortal progenitors but as literal
>spirit children of an Eternal Father.
>    The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammad,
>Confucius, and the [Protestant] Reformers, as well as philosophers
>including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God's light.
>Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations
>and bring a higher level of understanding to individuals. ...
>    Consistent with these truths, we believe that God has given and will
>give to all peoples sufficient knowledge to help them on their way to
>eternal salvation, either in this life or in the life to come. ...
>    Our message therefore one of special love and concern for the eternal
>welfare of all men and women, regardless of religious belief, race, or
>nationality, knowing that we are truly brothers and sisters because we
>are sons and daughters of the same Eternal Father.>
>    It seems clear to me that the official LDS position is one of respect for
>the leaders and teachings not only of non-LDS Christian
>denominations, but of non-Christian religions as well.  We respectfully
>disagree with them, but respect them nonetheless, and believe that
>there are many true, beautiful, and good ideas in all of the world's
>religions.

	I didn't want to leave anything out. But I think that I should 
have summarized instead.

	In essence, Bill believes that the reason that there is the 
thought that the LDS is intolerant of other religions is due to one 
verse in the Pearl of Great Price. Bill then quotes one message to 
show that this is the real view of the LDS leadership. I think that 
there are more leaders that have spoken on this tan what Bill would 
focus our attention on.

	And so, here are some of the other LDS leaders, past and 
present, on tolerance for other religions....

        The Mormon Apostle Joseph Fielding Smith, who became the tenth 
Mormon prophet on January 23, 1970, claimed that "the entire Christian
world in 1820 had lost the true doctrine concerning God." (Answeres to
Gospel Questions, 3:117)

        Mormon leaders claim that Christians are committing idolatry, 
because they worship a false, pagan god. B.H. Roberts, of the First Council 
of the Seventy, stated that the "orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan
rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, p. 116) The Apostle
Charles W. Penrose stated that "the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a
being of their own creation..." (Journal of Discourses, 23:343) The Mormon
Apostle Orson Pratt stated the following:

  'I will now tell you the reason why the King [God] has kept silence so 
  long. It is because he has had no subjects to converse with; all have 
  turned away from him... they have introduced idolatry in its worst forms, 
  and utterly turned away from the true and living God. They have 
  introduced a "God without BODY, PARTS or PASSIONS." They have had the 
  audacity to call this newly-invented god by the same name as the God of 
  the ancient Saints, although there is not the least resemblance between 
  them.... This imaginary modern god has become exceedingly popular. It is 
  to him that a vast number of churches have been erected. It is not to the 
  true and living God that they send forth petitions, but it is to this 
  imaginary being.... There have been various species of idolatry in 
  different ages of the world. The sun, moon, stars, beasts, crocodiles, 
  frightful cerpents, images of wood, of stone, and of brass, have been 
  erected into gods, and worshipped by innumerable multitudes. But the 
  system of idolatry, invented by modern christianity, far surpasses in 
  absurdity anything that we have ever heard of.... O, blush for modern 
  christianity! - a pious name for Atheism! Some, perhaps, may think that I 
  have not sufficient charity. But why should I have charity for a god that 
  has no "parts" - no relation to space?... The reason, then, why the 
  people have not received any word from the Great King, is because they
  have petitioned the wrong god.  (Orson Pratt-Writings of an Apostle, "The
  Kingdom of God," part 1, no.  2, p. 3)


        Mormon leaders have stated that Christians are "ignorant," and are 
"heathens" and "fools" who know nothing of God. They "grovel in darkness," 
"reap damnation to their souls," are bound for hell, etc.

  'The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of 
  the salvation of God.  (Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses,
  8:171)

  'We may very properly say that the sectarian world do not know anything 
  correctly, so far as pertains to salvation. Ask them where heaven is? - 
  where they are going to when they die? - where Paradise is!  - and there 
  is not a priest in the world that can-answer your questions.  Ask them 
  what kind of a being our Heavenly Father is, and they cannot tell you so
  much as Balaam's ass told him. They are more ignorant than children.
  (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 5:229)

  'The Christian world, I discovered, was like the captain and crew of a 
  vessel on the ocean without a compass, and tossed to and fro 
  whithersoever the wind listed to blow them. When the light came to me, I 
  saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness.
  (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 5:73)

  'What! are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as 
  the brute beast.  (Apostle John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 6:25)

  'What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why, so far as 
  the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know 
  neither God nor the things of God.  (John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 
  13:225)

  'Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to 
  their souls...  (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 177)

  'The sectarian world are going to hell by hundreds, by thousands and by 
  millions.  (Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Documented History of the Church, 
  5:554)

  '"...Will everyone be damned, but Mormons?" Yes... (Joseph Smith, TPJS, 
  p. 119) [The Prophet Brigham Young said that "to be damned is to be 
  banished from, or be deprived of living in the presence of the Father and 
  the Son." Journal of Discourses, 11:271]

  '"...I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true." (Joseph 
  Smith, Documented History of the Church, 1:6)

  'I spoke of the impropriety of turning away from the truth, and going
  after a people so destitute of the spirit of righteousness as the
  Methodists. (Joseph Smith, ibid, 2:319)

  '...brother Joseph B. Nobles once told a Methodist priest, after hearing
  him describe his god, that the god they worshipped was the "Mormon's"
  Devil--a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts, and
  passions. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 5:331)

  '...Methodism is a system of idolatry....  Having now proved that
  Methodism is a system of idolatry; a false and perverted Gospel: a
  daughter of the great mother of harlots - having a form of godliness,
  denying the power, as well as a system of priestcraft of the deepest dye.
  I now call upon every honest Methodist, to come out from such
  abominations, and receive the TRUTH; for her sins have reached unto
  Heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities, and her judgments slumber
  not.  (Apostle Parley P. Pratt, PreAssasination Writings of Parley P.
  Pratt, pp. 43,45)

  '...brother Heber C. Kimball was beset by a number of Baptist priests who
  had been attending a conference. He read them all down out of the New
  Testament.... With regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never
  lived than the present so-called Christian world.  (Brigham Young,
  Journal of Discourses, 8:199)

  '...another Harlot Daughter of the Catholics - the Lutherans...  (Apostle
  Orson Pratt, Orson Pratt-Writings of an Apostle, "Divine Authenticity,"
  no.  3, p. 40)

  'Q. Is the Roman Catholic Church the Church of Christ?
   A. No...
   Q. Who founded the Roman Catholic Church?
   A. The Devil, through the medium of Apostates...
   Q. Did the great Protestant Reformers restore the Church of Christ to
   the earth?
   A. No: for they had no inspired Apostles, Prophets, or Revelators
   among them, without which the Church could not be restored....
   Q. But did not the first Protestant Reformers receive their
   ordination and authority from the Catholics?
   A. Yes: and in this manner they received all the authority that their
   mother church was in possession of; and the mother having derived her
   authority from the Devil, could only impart that which his Satanic
   majesty was pleased to bestow upon her.
  (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 205)

  'The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt 
  ecclesiastic power, represented by great Babylon...  (Orson Pratt, Orson
  Pratt-Writings of an Aposlte, "Divine Authenticity," no. 6, p. 84)

  '...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with 
  all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with 
  the devil and his angels.  (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith, Jr.,
  editor, vol. 1, no. 4, p. 60)

  'And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of 
  the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be 
  sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious 
  act.  (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255)

  'All the modern christian churches, who deny new revelation, have no more 
  authority to preach, baptize, or at1minister any other ordinance of the 
  gospel than the idolatrous Hindoos have; indeed all their administrations 
  are worse than in vain - they are a solemn mockery in the sight of 
  God....all the baptisms and sacraments administered by modern christian 
  churches who have done away new revelation, are an abomination in the 
  sight of God. All persons who shall suffer themselves to be baptized, or 
  partake of these ordinances through the administration of these illegal 
  unauthorized persons, after having been duly warned of the evil thereof, 
  will bring themselves under great condemnation before God, and unless 
  they repent of that sin they can in nowise be saved.  (Orson Pratt, Orson 
  Pratt-Writings of an Apostle, "The Kingdom of God," no. 2, p. 6)

  Mormonism claims that Christianity is anti-Christ and is of the Devil.

  '...the corruptions of anti-Christ, under the name of Christianity...
  (Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology, p. 71)

  '...the Saints [Mormons]...maintain a constant prayer in their hearts 
  that the spirit of the Lord may penetrate the learning and philosophies 
  of men that have moulded the religions of the world into the great
  anti-christ, in the guise and under the veneer of "christian" doctrine.
  (Mormon writer and educator, Rodger S. Gunn, Mormonism: Challenge and 
  Defense, p. 166)

  '...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great 
  antichrist...is the church of the devil...  (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie,
  Mormon Doctrine, p. 40)

  'And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is 
  the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; 
  wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth 
  to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the 
  whore of all the earth.  (BofM, 1 Ne. 14:10)

  'Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of 
  Babylon" whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as 
  having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness.  
  (Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255)

  'We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense....the 
  Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the 
  Christianity of the nineteenth century.  (Apostle John Taylor, Journal of
  Discourses, 6:167)

  'Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched 
  in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then 
  kicked on to the earth.  (Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses,
  6:176)

  'Evil spirits control much of the so-called religious worship in the 
  world; for instance, the great creeds of Christendom were formulated so 
  as to conform to their whispered promptings.  (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon
  Doctrine, p. 246)




=============================
Robert Weiss
psyrobtw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
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