HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kettler@mitme5.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Re: Thoughts....Random, yet interesting
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:26:00 GMT

In article <Bt4y15.47p@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, sbulmahn@yoyodyne.ncsa.uiuc.edu (scooter)   writes...
>4.  Yes, Shaq is good.  He's a franchise player, will be rookie of the year,
>	and might be a very strong force in the NBA.  But listen, he's not 
>	worth no  $$$$40 million bucks/6 years or whatever.  Nobody is.  
>	NBA salaries are now almost half as disgusting as Major League Baseball
>	contracts.  Its just absolutely disgusting how certain teams (wont mention
>	who) are just jacking up ticket prices thru the roof, and giving these
>	jive-ass salaries.  And Shaq hasnt even done anything yet!!!!
>	Jordan doesnt even get $3 million (but does get $10 mill endorsements)....
>	And then there are the REAL players like Detlef who arent getting a
>	fifth of what Shaq is getting.

I may be flamed for this but personally, I don't think that the Shaq will win 
ROY. Although he can block shots, he is not a great defender. Consider how well 
Calbert Cheaney shot against the Shaq in the Indiana-LSU with his hook shot 
over the Shaq's attempted block. He lets people too often into the lane and is 
not very fluid in his lateral movement on the floor unlike David Robinson. Also,
he will have problems guarding "centers" like Bill Laimbeer who make a living 
on the offensive end by shooting from outside 15 ft since under Dale Brown's 
system, the Shaq never had to get out of the paint.

BTW, I do feel that the Shaq will eventually be a great player but I just do 
not think that this year he will be a franchise player like all the scouts and 
press are predicting he will be.

Instead, I feel that Jim Jackson or Alonzo Mourning would have to be considered 
favorites for the ROY.

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Sixers Fanatic"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: nelson@clunker.b21.ingr.com (nelson jordan)
Subject: Re: Shoe teams
Organization: ^$
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:46:11 GMT

In article <Bt8nMr.936@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:
>
>	Reebok:  Dee Brown, Dennis Rodman, Horace Grant, Reggie Lewis,
>	and many others?
>
>
>	LA Gear:  Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, Karl Malone 
>	(and of course, good old Kareem)

     Move Shaq to Reebok. His LA Gear deal fell through, I believe. I have
   read where Reebok is introducing a new "Shaq shoe" line soon. I wonder if
   you'll be able to get a smaller size than 20something?  :)


>
>	Feel free to add to the list.  Any comments?  From 1st glance,
>	it would appear that LA Gear would have the inside game hands down.
>
>	Jazzy J
>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
>|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rsmall@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: RE: LARRY
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:14:20 GMT
Organization: Clark University


    My last attempt failed, so here we go again.
Larry will be a special assistant to Dave Gavitt.  The radio coverage of the
press conference said he would be an asst. coach.

                                    Rich...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: HE'S BACK (Re: Debunking ... [and other bullshit]) 
Originator: hillyard@tiger.msc.cornell.edu
Reply-To: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:45:03 GMT

From article <1992Aug12.162330.3858@ichips.intel.com>, by harryk@omews58.intel.com (Harry Koehnemann):

> 
> WOW!  Haven't seen form like that for some time now.  It's good to have
> you back.  BTW, this "lets compare B/W ..." on *any* front can serve no
> useful purpose.  Period.  If you compare/evaluate/make-biases on one front,
> there will absolutely be claims made on other fronts.  It's a no-win
> situation, so let's drop it and get on with basketball.
> 

Any front?  What about certain diseases and problems that occur with more
frequency in certain racial segments of the population, which if known about 
allows targeting of the correct groups for behaviour modification or being more
watchful for the problem (examples; high blood pressure, more common in blacks.
skin cancer, more common in whites).  Or how about certain medical conditions 
that signify a problem in one race but don't seem to in another, which may 
end up being needlessly treated, or wrongfully ignored.

Sports wise it is pretty useless, but it can certainly serve a purpose.

With respect to basketball and track the subject has been dropped.

SEH
From: mfrwq@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Robert W. Quesal)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: snore
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:28:47 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

Snore says it all.  Two babies going at it for weeks...who cares?  Don't
you guys ever work?

  
-- 
Robert W. Quesal, Ph.D.           mfrwq@bgu.edu 
Western Ill. U.                   mfrwq@ecnuxa.bitnet
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: All North Carolina team
Date: 23 Aug 92 01:01:46 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Aug21.212650.9388@Princeton.EDU> hariharn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh Hariharan) writes:
>>|> 
>
>And you truly fell for everything they said in that press conference.
>Don't immortalize the silly quote !! It's stupid and
>very immature on anybody's part to say something like that. 
>Magic has more championship rings than Larry, and Michael has just begun
>his count. Even Magic and Michael's stats are more impressive.  

Are they really???   Larry Bird averaged 20+ppg, 10+rpg, and 6+apg.  
How many people can you name that get 20+pts, 10+rebounds, and 6+assists in
any season, let alone for his entire career.  Just as a point of reference, 
even in his injury plagued final season, he average 20+ppg, 6+apg, and just
under 10 rpg.  He maintained this same average in the playoffs as well,
20+ppg, 10+rpg, and 6+apg.  He is one of the 10 ten best 3pt shooters.  
How much more "impressive" do you want to get?


>The Bulls totally depend on Michael to be #1 and magic's retirement pulled down
>the Lakers from #2 in the league ('91) to total disaster last season. As
>far as I see it, the Celts are going to be mired in mediocrity for atleast
>the next 3-4 seasons just as they have been in the last 4 seasons. 

Hah!!!  Remember when Bird came into the league??? What did they do the season
before Bird  29-53.   The first season with Bird?? 61-21.  Their only 
real significant addition was Larry Bird, and this was the greatest 
single season turnaround EVER.  We are talking 32 games better.  Though you
consider them "mired in mediocrity", they have still managed to win their 
division just about every year in which Larry played.  In fact, if I remember
right, their only sub 50-win season during the Bird era was when he was out
with the Achilles tendon in 88-89.  

>If you are going to argue that Bird played with more heart than any other
>player the argument doesn't hold water, being very subjective in nature.
>I agree that Larry Bird is probably the best white player in the history
>of the game .. But to say very casually that he is a level above
>Michael, Magic and others is plain BS.

Well, to say he is a level about in not just plain BS, but like you mention,
is very subjective.  But, if it was so highly questioned, then why would so
many of the so-called experts rate him so highly.  According to the 
Tendex Power Ratings, he ranks amongst the Top 50 of all time in more 
categories than any player ever.  Saying he is a level above Magic is 
probably no right, because we could do similar analysis with him, but
Michael has not yet reached that level, mainly due to simple length of
time in the league. He will go down as one of the best ever as well, but
Magic and Bird are already there
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
From: msmiller@Rational.COM (Mark Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Bird is retiring
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:24:12 GMT
Organization: Rational

In article <1735@hsdndev.UUCP>, nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder 432-4219) writes:
|>
|> I actually called up and voted for him to retire beleive or not! 
|> 
|> I thought all the stations(radio & TV) and print media did a tremendous
|> job covering the retirement day. Ch.4(NBC) even pre-empted some Nazi
|> Republican's speech and went with the newscast at 11pm. Good move.
|> Afterall,this was Larry's Day.

Boston still has its priorities straight.

Anyone have the FAX number for Boston Garden for some of us displaced
Bostonians?

|> After this season,you'll be able to get a good deal on season-tickets
|> and it would be actually a good invsetement when the new Garden open in '95 and a
|> new superstar will be playing for the Green.

New Boston Garden in '95? Yeah, right.

	-MSM

________________________________________________________________________
Mark S. Miller                                     msmiller@Rational.COM
"Life is a 4-letter word."                        msmiller@world.std.com
[ insert tedious disclaimer drivel here ]                           IV-Q
From: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Shoe teams
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:46:02 GMT
Reply-To: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Organization: Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center

In rec.sport.basketball.pro, jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:
>        I was wondering -- just what shoe company could launch their own
>        version of a "Dream Team" using the players that endorse their
>        shoes......

Look for the "Laettner Stomp" shoes that the kids can wear to stomp
down their opponents!  :-)


---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Steve Williams                           swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: S. Roberts: Trade Bait??
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:13:48 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <l8vfq4INN216@cronkite> andy@misha.central.sun.com writes:
>In article 6083@iscsvax.uni.edu, baker2668@iscsvax.uni.edu () writes:
>>
>>How about this possibility?:   Armstrong and the rights for Kukoc in exchange
>>for Roberts.  Of course this will depend on Kukoc signing a NBA contract but
>>this deal might tempt Kukoc.  He would get the starting position he covets and
>>he would get the chance to play along side the Shaq.  I only make this
>>suggestion because I do not believe that the Bulls will be able to sign Kukoc
>>in the near future.
>
>I'd like to see this happen.  However,  I imagine the Magic are pretty 
>close to being over the salary cap without Roberts contract.  They were
>able to go over the cap resigning their own FA.  They could not sign 
>Kukoc & go over the cap.  
>
>The Bulls would need a another PG.  But with the addition of Roberts,
>they could dangle 2 of the following 3:  King, Perdue, and Williams for
>a good PG.  Hate to see Williams go,  but he is probably the most 
>marketable.

I am sure the Bulls would love this to happen.  You would take a player who
showed a great deal of potential at the end of the year and you would get 
a part-time point guard and a player who has been very reluctant to join the
reigning NBA champions... IF... And this is a big IF, Toni Kukoc were to come
to the NBA and agree to play for the Magic, then the trade might be good for
Orlando, but otherwise... No way...

-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
From: rpierce@oracle.com (Russell Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Angola
Summary: Oh yeah
Keywords: Dream Team, excuses, Ha Ha Ha
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:29:21 GMT
Followup-To: rpierce@oracle.com
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores, CA  94065
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <Bt70y2.89E@ecf.toronto.edu> yewhin@ecf.toronto.edu (YEW HIN Jimmy) writes:
>I am a visa student from Angola and I am going to tell you something that will 
>upset many of you, specially in the US, but I swear to you over my grandfather 
>Kunta Abooba's grave, it is true. The reason our national team lost to the 
>Dream Team was because our team did not have enough time to prepare for the 
>games due to a tribal warfare in our countryside and some of our key players 
>were badly injured and could not make it to Barcelona.  The game was very close
>until the Charles Barkley elbow.  His intimidating style of play affected our   team morale; such hooliganism should not be allowed in international play.      Without all those problems, our team would have defeated the Dream Team since 
>we are superior technically specially in defense as you would know if you 
>watched our national league. 

	Oh yeah, I believe you!!  Great teams are not intimidated by physical
	play.  This reminds me of an old Cliche 'excuses are like assholes,
	everyone has them and they all stink'.

		Russ 'suckered into a response due to boredom' Pierce
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Angola
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:19:22 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson



 Bravo to whomever is forging these msgs.... I admit I almost fell for them...
First the Ausie and now an Angolan - I assume that we will have a Lithuanian
next telling us it was the bad Spanish water???


			gln
From: markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: LARRY BIRD RETIRES
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:39:07 GMT
Organization: Bell Northern Research Inc.

In article <1992Aug19.132455.3227@bmerh85.bnr.ca> stu1d46@bnr.ca (Victor Koa) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.064131.23266@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, rda455w@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (H. Nguyen) writes:
>
>|> 
>|> So when does he [Larry] get inlisted into the hall of fame??
>|>  
>|> O.
>|> 
>
>  They'll probably wait 'til Magic retires as well (I mean he makes it clear
>that he's NEVER coming back) and add a brand new wing to the Hall of Fame
>for Bird and Magic.  I think it would be a great idea to have the two of them
>inducted into the Hall at the same time, since there is an NBA era named
>after them.
>
>Reg Domaratzki

Just be sure it doesn't mess up the plan for Michael's floor (which would
obviously be built higher than the old one, since that where Michael regularly 
is in comparison to the other HOFers)!  ;^)

-- 
Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
Bell Northern Research, Inc.
From: msmiller@Rational.COM (Mark Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Is Bird Retiring?
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:11:30 GMT
Organization: Rational

I heard on the local (San Jose) news this morning that Larry is
supposed to announce his retirement today. Can anyone canfirm this?
The story was supposed to have come from a "Boston area newspaper".

Maybe I left Boston at the right time afterall.

	-MSM

________________________________________________________________________
Mark S. Miller                                     msmiller@Rational.COM
"Life is a 4-letter word."                        msmiller@world.std.com
[ insert tedious disclaimer drivel here ]                           IV-Q
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Who made the NBA prosper? (Re: All North Carolina team)
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:41:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <55801@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
>Sorry you're going to have to refresh my memory, what year was the NBA
>formed, 1980? The NBA existed before Magic and Bird, there were lots 
>of fans, the marketing wasn't nearly as good. It took off with cable,
>and Magic and Bird were the perfect "ambassadors", but the league
>would still have prospered without them, just not as much. None
>of this would have affected Michael, when you're that good, people
>will notice.
OK, Russ, how much have you noticed Wayne Gretzky? You know, the one
with some odd commercials like Avis (or was it Hertz) and Diet Coke(?).

MJ is no Gretzky in terms of dominance in the sport. No matter 
what you look at: stats, rings, honors, etc. Gretzky won ***NINE***
MVPs. How many have MJ won? Gretzky's routine 200 point season, in
terms of dominance, is like Wilt's routine 40 ppg season. Gretzky's
all time scoring record is like Kareem's all-time scoring record,
so far out that no-one can reach in the forseeable future. 

Yet, nobody cares about him. As a matter of fact, how many
of you people have watched any hockey games in the past 2 seasons? 
I haven't since it's not on TV.

David Stern did a great job making the NBA, so did Magic/Bird. Had
the NBA televised its finals at 11:30 PM tape delayed, like the
1980 finals, the NBA won't be that much better than the NHL. Had 
the NBA had an incompetent commissioner like John Ziegler,
MJ would have been like Mario Lemieux.

>Does your friend in Australia report people wearing Chuck Person
>shirts and hats? Why not? Because he doesn't have Mike's appeal.
Does you friend in Aussie report people wearing Wayne's jersey?
Why not? he is God in Canada.

-- 
                                          Edward Lor
                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com
                                          
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: yewhin@ecf.toronto.edu (YEW HIN Jimmy)
Subject: Angola
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:03:38 GMT

I am a visa student from Angola and I am going to tell you something that will 
upset many of you, specially in the US, but I swear to you over my grandfather 
Kunta Abooba's grave, it is true. The reason our national team lost to the 
Dream Team was because our team did not have enough time to prepare for the 
games due to a tribal warfare in our countryside and some of our key players 
were badly injured and could not make it to Barcelona.  The game was very close
until the Charles Barkley elbow.  His intimidating style of play affected our   team morale; such hooliganism should not be allowed in international play.      Without all those problems, our team would have defeated the Dream Team since 
we are superior technically specially in defense as you would know if you 
watched our national league.
From: yzhou@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Joe Y. Zhou)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Bulls sign top pick
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:50:36 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Chicago Tribune reported that the Bulls signed Byron Houston to a
multi-year contract Wednesday. The club did not release terms of the deal,
but the Chicago Tribune said that Houston signed a four-year contract
estimated at $2.6 million plus incentives.

        He is expected to be tried at both forward positions with the Bulls,
subbing for Scottie Pippen at the No. 3 spot and for Horace Grant at
power forward.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I just don't see how he can play power forward with 6-4 in the NBA.

    Any comments?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: ortcm@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (thomas.mcguigan)
Subject: Re: S. Roberts: Trade Bait??
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:44:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.094119.6083@iscsvax.uni.edu> baker2668@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>Now that the Magic's Stanley Roberts is officially "trade-bait",  I was
>wondering what offers the Magic have been hearing for him.

Reportedly, Pat Williams has received quite a number of calls indicating a
willingness to take Roberts off Orlando's hands.  Two teams have been named:
Stanley has mentioned that he feels he will end up with Milwaukee.  Moses
Malone is earning $2.4M for the last year of his contract.  The second year
of Roberts' contract is also worth $2.4M, so that would be a good fit for the
Bucks, but probably not this year (??).

The Clippers are also rumored to be seriously interested.  I would not rule 
anyone out entirely, except Dallas.

However, there are two complicating factors (this is my understanding
of the Salary Cap guidelines, any corrections or additional information
is gratefully appreciated):

1.  Yes, Orlando is over the cap.  Matching the offer for Roberts put the
Magic about $2M over; by the time they sign Anthony Bowie, Chris Corchiani,
and Litterial Green it will be ~$3M.  Thus, if we trade with another team
that is over the cap, we must trade for a player of "equivalent value".
If we trade with a team that is under the cap, both teams must end up under
the cap after the trade is completed.

2.  According to Brian Schmitz (sp?), a columnist for the Orlando Sentinel,
Roberts' trade value is NOT $1.9M (his salary for the first year of his new
contract), but $550K (his salary last year).  The NBA Salary Cap Guidelines
include a Base-Compensation Rule.  This rule states that if a player's
salary increases more than 30% from one year to the next, then his "trade
value" is determined by the previous year's salary.  Further that value
($550K, in Roberts' case) does not change for the life of the new contract
(or until the player is traded).

For these reasons, any trade involving Roberts would have to be based on
Orlando receiving one or more draft picks as the primary value in the trade
(unless our Salary Cap Wizards can pull another rabbit out of their collective
hats).  It's too bad, there are apparently quite a number of players available
who could really help Orlando.

>Or do the Magic plan on playing the twin towers?  Would this work in the NBA?

I wouldn't expect to see Shaq and Stanley on the court together a lot, but I
think Goukas will give it a try occasionally.  The likelihood of seeing the
twin towers will rise dramatically if Brian Williams isn't cleared to play.

OFFICIAL NET RUMOR:  Within the next two weeks, the Orlando Magic will
announce that the team's name is being changed to the Orlando Patients (Pats).
The team's colors (black and blue) will be retained.  Pat Williams will also
announce a yearly fund-rasing campaign for medical research to support our
"kids" (the Pats' Seals campaign).  Remember, you read it here first.

Tom@Orlando
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: nelson@clunker.b21.ingr.com (nelson jordan)
Subject: Re: Meeks == Lor
Keywords: I'ts over
Organization: ^$
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:16:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.191136.40466@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.150120.24198@bmerh85.bnr.ca> lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug18.145810.23996@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>
>
>  If you dislike the conversations between Ed and myself, kill files
> work well, so does skipping the articles. 

 Just a quick question- What do you guys have against email? Why waste the
bandwidth?


>-- 
>David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
>VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
>uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
>davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"