From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Subject: Re: Rape in any form ...
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:00:46 GMT

kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920) writes:

>Rape is rape is rape.  It is an absolute.  To fantasize about rape is always
>the prelude to the act.  Do you actually believe that men (or women) who
>commit rape do not fantasize about it first.  If so then you're stupid.  And
>as far as the "medical experts" opinion goes, *SO WHAT*!  It doesn't change
>the fact that rapists are non-human pieces of sewer scum and should be executed
>publically.  It doesn't change the fact that anyone who fantasizes about rape
>is a potential rapist and should get help before it's too late.  "Medical

Why should rape fantasies be treated any different than other fantasies?
Sometimes I daydream about being a famous formula-1 (racecar) driver.
I'm sure that most race car drivers have also fantasized about racing, but
does this mean that I'm actually going to jump in a race car and drive?
I've fantasized about being president, am I going into politics? The statement
"Do you actually believe that men (or women) who commit rape do not fantasize
about it first." has no bearing. Even if we grant that they all do, it does not
imply that most, or even many, of those who do fantasize about rape commit it.
(Logically, the statement "all A's do B" is not equivelent to "All those who
do B are A's") I'ld say 90% of all little kids fantasize about being cops
and robbers, and probably 20% of all adults either fantasize about it or become
"very involved" in such activities when they read about them. Few of them go
on to become either police officers or burglars.
	Aside from the question of "what is a potential rapist", how does it
figure that everyone who fantasizes about rape is a potential rapist? I doesn't,
any more than everyone who fantasizes about murder is a potential murderer, or
who fantasizes about being a stand up comic is even funny. Personally, 
I sometimes fantasize about being a famous general. I know that I am not going 
to be, that I don't particularily like the idea of being shot at, and think that
in general war is a pretty lousy way of solving things. Sometimes I fantasize
about being a gambler, or a spy, or a lothario, though I really don't want to
do such things (other than small ante poker.)
	I think that there is also a question of what constitutes a rape
fantasy. There are several factors, does the person fantasizing dwell on the
rape aspects? Is the victim someone known to the fantasizer? Within the fantasy,
is it clear to the "victim" that it is just play?  (Personally, I've never 
really fantasized about rape, I have fantasized about play-acting play-rape.)

>I neglected to mention people who fantasize about being raped.  All I can say
>here is that I feel confident that if such a person could add to that fantasy
>the physical, emotional, and spiritual trauma suffered by a true rape victim,
>the 'fun' would go out of the experience pretty quick.

Sure. I've also fantasized about being a lawman in the Old West. If I could
add to that fantasy the lice, heat, bad smells, fear, and occasional gunshot
wounds, the 'fun' would go out of the experience pretty quick, but I don't.
Most people who fantasize about rape really don't fantasize about rape per se, 
but about a delicious loss of control. About being f*cked without ones consent
by someone one would want to screw anyway.
-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape