From: baresson@cbnewsi.att.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Rapture Question (also Challenge to Dispensationalists)
Date: 3 Oct 92 06:14:38 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <Oct.2.00.13.12.1992.1508@geneva.rutgers.edu> topcat!tom@tredysvr.tredydev.unisys.com (Tom Albrecht) writes:
>baresson@cbnewsi.att.com writes:
>
>>3. The doctrine of imminency demands a pre-tribulation
>>rapture. We believe that the Lord can return at any time. 
>
>Could you please define this doctrine of imminency from the Scriptures?  How
>is it that the folks who hold to this "imminency" doctrine are many of the
>same folks who have been telling us all the signs point to the fact that
>we're the "terminal generation?"  If Christ's return is "imminent", how can
>there be signs prior to the rapture?
>
>--
>Tom Albrecht

Certainly. We have to admit that there is a dynamic tension
between the FACT and TIMING of our Lord's return, with those things
we are told of which will precede it serving to focus our minds
on the fact that it is soon. It is a call to a holy life.
The doctrine of imminency attests to this: we are
told to look for his appearing and at the same time to WATCH
"when you see these things beginning to take place ..."

Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:51-2 talks of "we who are left": I believe
that he fully expected the Lord to return in his lifetime - or
at least he lived with the strong possibility. So must we.

The relationship between the signs and the rapture is never made
clear, as to say what will happen BEFORE the departure of the
church and what will happen after, so for instance we see
that there are some things pointed to which could occur
beforehand or maybe afterward.

Because we are told to look for His appearing, there are no
signs that are specific to the church - with the arguable
exception of the great commission. We are told to watch, as
servants for their master, to live sober lives waiting for His
appearing. The Lord is at hand. The night is far off.

It is the church's relationship with Israel which is a major
factor in the pointing to our generation as being the last. We
hold that the Lord's return is imminent. In our generation.
Definitely. And if not in our generation then in our
children's. For doesn't the Scriptures say that Jerusalem shall
be trodden down by the gentiles until the times of the gentiles
are fulfilled (Luke 21.24) - was it not 1967 after the 6 days
war that Jerusalem was retaken by the Jews? And does not the
Bible tell us that when the fig tree buds forth, we will know
that the end is near. This happened in 1948, when a nation was
born in a day. (Ezek 36ff). Surely a sign to quicken us.

Take Jeremiah 31, for instance, where the Lord swears that the
nation of Israel will last as long as the ordinances of day and
night, then as if to confirm their longeivity he affirms that it
will only be when man has measured the heavens and plumbed the
depths of the earth that they will cease to be a people.
He then goes on to prophecy the future expansion of Jerusalem, a
prophecy which has only been completed in its fulfillment in 
our century.  (I can provide more details on this if you like, but 
this should suffice it for my purpose: ie to demonstrate that God 
still has a plan and purpose for the physical offspring of Jacob.)

In summary - this is the tension as I see it: we are not to
expect certain signs that we know will occur definitely before
the departure of the church, but at the same time to keep our
eyes open, watching, and fellowshipping all the more AS WE SEE
the day drawing near. When you see these things look up for your
redemption is nigh.

Now, here is something you can take me up on. I personally
believe that the battles of Ezek 38-9 refer to an invasion 
of contemporary Israel by Russia. In 1982 the Israeli invaded
Lebanon and discovered a VAST arms cache of Soviet weapons there
-
a phenonemal amount of ammunition and weaponry. In doing so they
thwarted a likely invasion then. But Scripture cannot be broken
and I believe it was only a postponement of the invasion. I
believe that the demise of the world power will create a power
vacuum out of which will emerge antichrist and the 7 year
treaty. BUT the timing of the rapture is never given - we hold
it to be 7 years before the antichrist's demise because there
should be someone as witnesses in the meantime ie if it happened
much before then then there would be a spiritual vacuum. 
This is not ABSOLUTELY necessary.
See Tim la Haye's book 'The Coming Peace in the Middle East' for
instance, where he postulates a rapture well before Daniel's 70th 
week.

Barney Resson
"Many shall run to and fro, & knowledge shall increase" (Daniel)