From: robd@cherry09.cray.com (Robert Derrick)
Subject: On finding The Book
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:15:11 CST

Yes, I found a copy of Thompson's book.

But, I must preface this post with:

Chris Stassen writes:
> 
> Below are the top twenty posters, by bytes posted to talk.origins, for
> postings received at this site over the past seven days:
> 
> ====		======  	=====		===========================
> Rank    	Bytes		Posts		Poster/address
> ====		======  	=====		===========================
..
>  12		 24877		 10		Robert_Derrick
..

First of all, let me say that I am abashed to see myself so high
on this list.  I feel that my content is fractional compared to
many others so much lower on the list.  I am feeling somewhat like
the Rush Limbaugh of Evolution on T.O.  Loud, verbose, opinionated,
brash, abrasive, strident, and obnoxious.  An occasional wit.

I also think that the last seven days have been exceptional for me.

It's just that Kalkis' tend to bring out the worst in me.  I apologize.

David Rice writes:
>  
> The recient "1e15^-1000" figure was given without any proof
> except "read the book," and naturally to read the book t.o.
> Regulars would have to pay for it (it seems the book in
> question only exists in theist book stores and not in public
> libraries or real book stores).

So, being one of the people least qualified to really review this
book, I have found it.  It is in the Macalester College Library
in St. Paul, MN.  But I can't check it out, so I had to go have a
look at it there last night.  I did xerox a few pages.  FYI, I
was also told that the U. of Wisconsin has a copy.

When I get a chance (and why do I feel like I sound like one of
them when I say that?) I will post some observations, quotes, and
my own bombastic opinions.  There are also some quotes I will want
the real Scientists here to have a go at.

Basics: Mechanistic and Nonmechanistic Science, pub. by Bala Books,
	Lynbrook, NY, 1981.  Call # Q175.P497 (although Macalester
	puts it in T497).  ISBN 0-89647-014-8 (pbk), 250 pages.

	Richard Thompson: BS Math S.U.N.Y, Binghamton, MA Math
	Syracuse University, PhD Math, Cornell U., specializing
	in prob. theory and statistical mechanics.  He has done
	research in mathematical biology at S.U.N.Y. (from the cover)

First impressions:  The writing style is quite good.  The man is
not a totally ignorant dogma waving ranting fool, as some of his
proponents may be.  He is erudite in practice, not just in theory.
Skimming the book was orders of magnitude more pleasant than 
reading the average ICR Gish/Parker CS Tract.  However, even though
the style is high, and seems well informed, the underlying 
conclusions seem to be largely based on a basic "Gee whiz, I just
can't imagine how that could be" argument from disbelief.  He
presents Church's Thesis, and then "shows" that it is inconceivible
that a single CPU modern digital computer could ever manifest
consciousness.  Well, gee whiz, although Church's Thesis applies
to all computers, including Turing Machines, it makes no limitations
on memory, efficiency, speed, and so the idea that my Intel 8088
chip with 512K memory could produce a conscious thought in
my lifetime is of course ludicrous.  But that of course, is not
the point.  Computibility and feasibility are two very different
questions.

I do note with pleasure that he does mention my own hobby horse,
epiphenomenalism, but rejects it with an another appeal to disbelief.

I can honestly say that I would prefer to discuss this book with
Thompson himself rather than Kalki, who seems to have only a 
passing understanding of the logical content of the book.

On the other hand, the logical content of the book is only about
two-thirds.  About one third of the book is a presentation of
his alternate model, which is of course a high-level regurgatation
of the Bhagavad-gita.  While I really do admire his attempt to
provide a spiritual basis for living life, and I would not fault
bhakti-yoga for it contributions to a daily life, I don't think that
its dogmatic approach is going to be any more useful to providing
a spirituality compatible with observations in the natural world
than its completely bankrupt brother, Christian Fundementalism.

I have also initiated an interlibrary loan request, so I might
have a copy at hand sometime in the next few weeks.  Of course, I
predict that KD will have run his course by then and disappeared,
and the question will become moot.  By then we will have a new
adversary with a new agenda.  New!?  Ha, I was just joking.

Matt Brinkman observes:
:    From the table of contents, if Thompson's book is not the work of a
: crackpot, the book will be of high interest.  In fact, if Thompson's book is
: the work of a COMPLETE crackpot, the humor value of the book may still be
: worth the cost.  Not wanting to use my book-buying dollar on non-intentional
: humor (when so many good humorists are out there), however, I have made it a
: practice to only obtain crackpot books on the cheap (e.g., $.50 for V's
: _Worlds in Collision_, $.10 for vD's _Chariots of the Gods_, $0 for G's
: _Evolution?  The Fossils Say No_).

Well, I am already out a buck or so, but shrewd business person has
never been one of my sobriquets.  I copied chapter 8, "The Doctrine
of Evolution" because that really is where I think the most rotten
meat is going to be found.  I have not read it yet.  This proof
using Information Theory is where KD is going to start, so I'll let
him dig that grave himself.

Where possible, I will attempt to keep KD honest.  Let the games begin.
--

rob derrick				robd@cherry.cray.com
Newsgroups: talk.origins