From: dallagata@udphvx.cineca.it
Newsgroups: alt.flame
Subject: Re: Intellectuals & women
Date: 23 Jan 93 13:38:40 +0000
Organization: None
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalf.fnal.gov

You made a bad job, "intellectual", sometime you conveniently deleted 
the reason for which I think/feel in this way. You'll see.

In article <1993Jan22.223525.7628@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, jbl3g@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Jason Basinger Linkins) writes:
> In article <1993Jan22.115547.1@udphvx.cineca.it> dallagata@udphvx.cineca.it writes:
>>
> Oh GOD, an extremist.  Let's think logically...shall we?  There will
> always be children in this world.  Always.  Never have I espoused the
> end of population.  But, of course, it's all black and white for you.
> I forget you are incapable of flexing your puny mental muscle.
> 
So, why DID YOU DELETE THE FACT ABOUT ITALY THAT'S HAVING 
LESS CHILDBIRTHS THAN DEATHS?!?!? Because it was against 
your fucking point?!? Bull shit, man! A big one.

[everything deleted, because I am tired of that. Wait to 
flame, you'll see]

Ok, let's try to summarize. If you don't like it, just tell 
me that, and I will answer to all the point you made, but now I 
don't care.

You says (correct me if I am wrong here): 

[1] To have a child can be the most wonderful experience for 
    some women, *BUT* not for everywoman.

[2] If they decide in this way, it is just because they have the 
    right to decide their lifes.

[3] I (you) am not cold, I do care about women (sorry, but I 
    need this point because I wanna also proove that you are
    cold, with my bigger model that's better then your).

[4] The world works in this way, let it spins in this way.

I say:

[1] I belive, that for every woman to have a child can be the 
    most wonderful experience.

[2] They can decide to do something else, right, but that's 
    the big point. If they do, I just don't like them (that 
    means I give to them the same respect that I can give to
    an asshole).

[3] The world is wrong (not only in this point) let's think 
    about how to improve it.

[4] I DON'T WANT TO ENSLAVE WOMEN, I WOULD LIKE TO FREE THEN FROM 
    THE SLAVERY THAT MEN AS YOU GIVE TO THEM!

Here my point (you mist it, sorry, maybe it has been an english 
problem):

The keyword is *to decide*. Many women decide to have not 
children because they want to keep their career.

It is not a women "fault", it is a society fault.
You can be right when we speak about women that *absolutely* 
do not want to have children (for many reasons).

But, what about the women that decide to have not children 
because this society don't let them to have children and to 
have a career? Do you think that there are not solutions? 

Do you think that is in this way and so it will have to be 
in this way? Do you think that this is to *care* about women?
Do you think that this is not cold?

There are women (two is enough), that are NOT ABLE TO DECIDE, 
man. Whatever they decide, they loose something else. It is 
not FAIR. And if something is not fair, we have to change it, 
ok? And to change this, does not mean "Tell to women that 
they have only to have children", NO! 

It means: "Tell to women that they have to fight as *women*
to have the *RIGHT* TO WORK AND TO HAVE A FAMILY". And they do 
not do it. That's what I would like to see in this world:
Women fighting to improve the society giving to it the best 
of women culture (yes, even the concept of love for the 
children, instead of the concept of hate, that causes the 
wars, tipical of men, dear boy). 

Why do they have to decide? Why don't we have to give them 
the opportunity to do both the things? Why a woman DON'T 
HAVE TO BE HAPPY ANYMORE FOR BEING A MOTHER?!? 
The problem is that they do not have to decide this, AS WE 
DON'T! We can have children and have a career. To have the 
same right, MEANS THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE TO DECIDE TO HAVE 
NOT CHILDREN, OK?

And now I also answer you about when I think that women 
behave like men:

Women behave like men when they think that this system is ok.
This system is a male oriented system. For sure. To think 
that this system don't damage them and that don't hurt their 
feelings is stupid and dangerous, other than a *male* 
thought. If they think in this way, they behave as men, if 
they don't they have to try to change it. Easy, no?

It is dangerous because it means that people think that 
women don't have to improve society anymore, and this society needs 
to be improved. If you don't think in this way, you are a 
reactionary. And, look, I neither like reactionaries, they 
can die, I don't care.

	Michele
Newsgroups: alt.flame