HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: More Notes from the Decline
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:00:59 GMT

Tom Maddox writes:
>	I for one trust that Mr. Morgan stands corrected:  Republicans read
>piffle and twaddle.

They also appear to be able to read bumper stickers.  I know this has
nothing to do with books, but I can't help it, I'm annoyed, today, to 
find that once again, the "Maryland for Clinton/Gore" sticker has
been peeled off the back bumper of my car.  The Jimi Hendrix, Dead
Kennedys, and Ministry stickers are left untouched, but three times
now, in a mere ten days, someone has removed the Clinton/Gore sticker.  

This strikes me as an odd form of political expression.  The net effect
is that I will drive to the local Democratic headquarters, give them
more money, and pick up another large pile of stickers and buttons.
Each time a sticker disappears, I immediately replace it, so my car
is _sans_ sticker only briefly, while parked (each of these thefts occurred
in different parking lots).

I wish I had a Perot and a Bush sticker I could lay on the back of my
car with a note, "Please take one of these instead, and put it on your
*own* car, dammit!"

I know, don't tell me, this belongs in some politics newsgroup...But I
don't *know* anyone in the politics newsgroups, so I don't have the same
sense of having gained some sympathy for my bumper sticker woes.

							<sigh>

							  Fiona
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: gara@cs.toronto.edu (Gara Pruesse)
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:15:43 GMT

Eric J. Olson writes:

   the one that
   really killed me was Kuhn's "landmark" book in science, _On the Nature
   of Scientific Revolutions_ or some such.  I was supposed to read it
   for a class; I couldn't even get through the first chapter without
   skipping paragraphs randomly.  He just drones on and on, repeating
   himself for page after page...

Almost as if each paragraph came up with the same ideas at the 
same time, independently... hmmm...

By the way, I have heard another work mentioned in the same context as
Kuhn't work, and that is an essay or book called _The Hundredth 
Monkey_.  I've heard that the presentation and distribution are
kind of goofy, but I'm intrigued anyway.  Anyone know more about
it?  Is there an online copy?

Cheers,

Gara
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:17898 rec.arts.sf.misc:3068 rec.railroad:7841
From:  (jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Whats the title/Author of this story
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:58:42 GMT
Organization: master/peon

In article <JOHN.92Oct7124625@sekrit.WPI.EDU>, john@sekrit.WPI.EDU (John Stoffel) writes:
> 
> >>>>> On 7 Oct 1992 14:51:06 GMT, wbrown@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Bill Brown) said:
> 
> Bill> In article <1992Oct7.020101.21144@cs.su.oz.au> matthew@cs.su.oz.au (Matthew Geier) writes:
> >
> > Some time ago I read a SF novel that was set on Mars and featured a
> >railway system on Mars.
> >	...
> > The reason im looking for this book is that it appears to be the only case
> >where my interests in SF and railways meet in one book. Im now looking for
> >a name for my railway BBS and thought that book might provide a name..
> >(Particularly the name of the siding at the town.. ).
> 
The was an Arthur C. Clarke which takes place on Mars just prior to
the Solar War.  The protagonist is preteneding to go and study, but
actually is there to determine which scientist is aiding the 'Outer Worlds'.
All right, maybe it was Luna, and I cannot recall the title, but the beginning
has the protagonist and another character riding an elevated train across the 
lunar surface, and the sunset terminator line crosses their path (parallel)
in so that they are in darkness riding a sea of light (paraphrase).  There
aren't that many train scenes, but you can find the book with the 1st few pages, 
and see if the station is mentioned.

Jon jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
=======-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Shut up," he explained
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:18123 soc.culture.iranian:8811
From: wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.iranian
Subject: REWARD OF $US100 TO END FATWAH ON RUSHDIE
Date: 10 Oct 1992 12:12:30 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: madvax.maths.uwa.oz.au
Keywords: Rushdie,fatwah



		****** CASH REWARD  ****** 



I HEREBY PLEDGE $US 100 IN FAVOUR OF ANY PARTY SUCCESSFUL IN
BRINGING ABOUT THE END OF THE FATWAH IMPOSED BY THE LATE SPIRITUAL
LEADER OF IRAN, THE AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI, ON THE BRITISH WRITER SALMAN
RUSHDIE.

THE PROCEEDS ARE WAIVED IN THE CASE OF:

(A) THE EVENT OF THE DEATH OF SALMAN RUSHDIE ON OR BEFORE THE DATE ONE
YEAR AFTER THE LIFTING OF THE FATWAH;

(B) THE SUCCESSFUL PARTY BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MAINTAINING OF, 
OR CONNECTED WITH IN ANY OTHER WAY, THE FATWAH AS OF THIS DAY, OCTOBER 9, 1992;

(C) ABSENCE OF PROOF SUBSTANTIATING THE PARTY'S CLAIMS.



THE PARTY MAY RESORT TO WHICHEVER MEANS ARE NECESSARY TO ACHIEVE THE AIM.



Signed,
John Wojdylo
Melbourne, Australia
October 9, 1992
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Help with Milton's Paradise Lost
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:03:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.):
>Hi, I just wanted to know if anyone has a ny opinions of Paradise Lost
>that I could ponder since we're reading it. Any criticism?...

That's a bit like asking if anyone has any opinions about Hamlet:  There's
no answer that can do justice to dozens and hundreds of *good* analyses
that can be found on the library shelf.  If you'd like an excellent
starting point, I suggest you read Empson's "Milton's God".  It has a
couple of weak points -- an essay near the end that really should have
gone into a different book, and an admission of partial defeat on the
question of whether and how Milton *does* justify God's way to man --
but by and large this is one of the more insightful critical works
I've read.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

Roses red and violets blew
  and all the sweetest flowres that in the forrest grew -- Edmund Spenser
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: index or be indexed 
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:09:30 GMT

Does anyone else here read indices of books, especially well-known
books, for entertainment?  I often discover strangely compelling,
or at least compellingly strange, snatches of "found poetry" in them.
For example, the following is an unedited excerpt (with page numbers
deleted) from the index of a famous book, whose identity I won't
disclose right away, just for the mystery of it:

		alkali in mother-liquor
		amoeba and pseudopodia
		apple-tree and bean
		'bewitched' as diagnosis
		blacksmith who escaped hanging
		breaking a crystal
		cambium layer in tree-trunk
		caterpillar and butterfly
		chemical analysis
		child's clenched fist
		conjuror and pigeon-breeding
		core of the earth
		criminal and sanctuary
		draining Zuider Zee
		driver and traffic regulations
		eat or be eaten
		elected representatives
		entrepreneur and capitalist
		facade of Italian church
		frontier control
		general shifting figures on a map
		household with knowledge of Sanskrit
		inoculation against diphtheria
		interconnecting channels filled with liquid
		judge and defendant
		lecture on _Alexander_the_Great_
		lion and camel on cliff path
		members of theatrical company
		migrant male sex glands
		migrant nerve cells in fish
		migrant tribes
		minerals and rocks
		mixed population
		nature reserves
		night watchman
		photographic negative
		piece of breccia
		pillory in the Middle Ages
		political article reduced to visual terms
		primitive language
		rider and horse
		robbery on a dark night
		sculptor and clay model
		small traces lead to detection of murder
		surgical operation
		toothache at the dentist
		trivial indications of love returned
		unmusical strumming on piano
		watchman guarding door to drawing-room
		witches, detection of

This does remind me a bit of a school test, because one way to
find the answer would be to ask, "What do all these items have in
common?"

							--Fiona
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:03:10 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS


That other Joyce, Cary -- *The Horse's Mouth*.  Just as there's
only one beer in the world I will not drink, only this book was
too ghastly to read, even in the middle of the Orinoco, when
last I tried.

Great thread!

Rage away,

meg

-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu		
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: Brennan.J.Murphy.53@nd.edu (BRennan Murphy)
Subject: Arthur Rimbaud, is that you?????
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:14:25 GMT

Has anybody seen Arthur Rimbuad lately?  I need to find him because I am
doing a report of sorts on his sordid self.  If you know where that
Atheist, Drug-running, coffe salesman is, please tell him to send me some
instructions on how to interpret his letter to Paul Demeny.  Tell him I
need to know what his notion of Poetry was.  If he has email, tell him to
send his address.
Yer a Pal,
brennan
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Borders Bookstores sold to K-Mart
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:22:29 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <7083@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:

>After all, if they get rid of all
>that literature stuff that doesn't sell much, they can triple
>the number of romances in the store.  Sigh!

Triple the romances?  Our Borders is such a pick-up joint as it is.


-- 
The trick of reason is to get the imagination to seize the actual world --
if only from time to time.     -- Annie Dillard, "An American Childhood"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
From: ccsdgdc@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Douglas Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: 1992 Nobel Prize
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:06:57 GMT
Organization: Bath University Computing Services, UK

In the referenced article, spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
>Just announced: winner of 1992 Nobel Prize for Literature is
> 
>      Derek Walcott, from the Caribbean island nation of St.Lucia
>
>My question: who the heck is this? I've never heard of him before?
>Is he a poet? novelist? Are his books in print? I don't recall ever
>seeing any?


Derek Walcott is generally acknowledged to be the finest poet currently
writing in English. He has a masterly command of the language. I have
looked at 'Midsummer' and 'An Arkansas Testament' and thought his content
flawed. But there is no contesting the quality of the language.
His latest book 'Omeros' is a very considerable piece of work.
A story in verse. That will have been his clincher for the Nobel.
In English he is a bigger talent than Brodsky.
-- 
Douglas Clark                                  Voice : +44 225 826039
Regional Services,                       JANET : D.G.D.Clark@uk.ac.bath
Bath University Computing Services, UUCP : ...uunet!mcsun!uknet!gdr!D.G.D.Clark
Bath, Avon, England BA2 7AY    ARPA : D.G.D.Clark%bath.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,aus.sf,rec.railroad
From: Rich.Rubel@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Rich Rubel)
Subject: Re: Whats the title/Author of this story
Keywords: SF railways mars
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:07:41 GMT


Actually, I can think of several more rail/SF tories One was a short that
appeared in Isaac Asimov's SF Mag last year, titled something like "The
Great Transcontinental Martian Train Race" or something similar.  As well,
Piers Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant has a sectionActually, I can think of several more rail/SF tories One was a short that
appeared in Isaac Asimov's SF Mag last year, titled something like "The
Great Transcontinental Martian Train Race" or something similar.  As well,
Piers Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant has a sectio (a large section) that
had futuristic railroads in and around Jupiter.  And Robert Heinlein had
"ringroads" (linear accelerator railroads) that followed the routes of
older (ie, our era) lines.
[RICHR]
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: myboy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Lewis Murtaugh)
Subject: White Jazz
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:00:52 GMT

I just finished an awesome new mystery novel entitled _White Jazz_, by James
Ellroy, who has written several other mysteries which I haven't read,
including _Black Dahlia_ and _LA Confidential_.

The book is incredible.  Ellroy writes like Ross MacDonald on crack --
extremely convoluted plot, involving LA police corruption in 1958,
high-velocity prose, great dialogue and characterization.

The book is told in the first person, by a crooked cop named Dave Klein, part
of an LAPD so bad it would make Ice-T hug Darryl Gates.  I don't think there
is a single "he said" in the whole novel -- dialogue is handled almost
cinema-like, with names and colons, or nothing at all.  He can go on for a
page of dialogue without using any names, and his characterizations are so
good that the reader isn't confused about who's speaking when.  The story
itself is told in an impressionistic, stream-of-consciousness style.

The plot is very grim, and there is a lot of violence, so it's not a book for
the meek.  I highly recommend it, especially to any other fans of the
hard-boiled mystery genre.  Don't expect too much purple with your prose,
though -- Ellroy doesn't waste a sentence for reflection.  It's a
demanding read, but it's as compelling as a shotgun pointed at your head.

Has anybody among the r.a.b.ble read any of his earlier books?  Are they
anything like this one?  Apparently he has several bestsellers under his belt,
but I'm entirely unfamiliar with his work.

--
Charles Murtaugh
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: nickles@sage.cc.purdue.edu (john a nickles)
Subject: In the best of our time, in the worst of our time
Summary: Hemingway-Dickens contest
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 05:20:26 GMT

In article <7068@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>I think most Dickens stories, if told in a spare, post-Hemingway
>style would actually be rather forgettable.  It is the richness
>of his detail and language that helps raise Dickens above the
>ordinary.
>
>--
>Jim Mann            
>Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Now there's a challenge if ever I heard one ! OK, r.a.b.ers, your mission,
if you chose to accept it is to write a Dickens story in the style of
Hemingway, or conversely, Hemingway in the style of Dickens. No more
than 250 words, please. God, I feel just like a New Statesman Competition.

John A. Nickles
Standard Disclaimer: Purdue has their opinons, I have mine
Bleak House Chap 1: It was foggy. 
(See how easy it is ? :)
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:39:43 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Oct8.123105.16864@morrow.stanford.edu>  
francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
> 
> As a confirmed Brundy basher, I must confess to some pleasure at  
seeing 
> *Wuthering Heights* top the list of unreadable books. Why had I not
> included it myself? Remember that the original thread was limited  
to
> good books that were, nevertheless, unreadable. It was Mark Taranto  
who
> broadened the thread and listed four categories (I think).  
*Wuthering
> Heights* -- as does anything from the pens of the Sisters Brundy --  
comes
> under the heading of Unreadable Trash.
> 	

Perhaps we should go back and define our terms.  I agree the
thread was "good books that were, nevertheless, unreadable."  The
question then is "How do we define 'good books'?"  For my
posts I was defining this as "books many respected sources
(some I know personally, some I've read) think are good but 
which I could not read."   Based on that definition, the work of the
Bronte sisters certainly qualifies as "good."  Many students of
19th century literature consider the Brontes important 
figures and their books major works.  

By the way, I've read very little of the Bronte sisters, but the
one novel I did read (Jane Eyre) I liked a lot. I think it
was a very good book.  One of these days (soon, I hope) I'll read
more.  (Too many books, so little time. Sigh!)

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: gifford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Barbara Gifford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: MARIETTE IN ECSTASY
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:08:04 GMT
Reply-To: gifford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Barbara Gifford)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

Has anyone read this book by Ron Hansen?  Any views on the ending?
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:40:52 GMT
	<9710@emory.mathcs.emory.edu> <1992Oct7.165311.25995@hellgate.utah.edu>
	<1992Oct9.202118.15847@cas.org>
Organization: pubs
In-reply-to: lgs57@cas.org's message of Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:21:18 GMT

lgs writes:

   With every page of the Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad, I found myself
   slowing down and down.  I did finally finish the book but it took me about 3
   hours.  (Typically I would have read a book that length in about an hour.)

It's inherently slow reading because the writing is dense and rich like
poetry.  You shouldn't expect to read it like other novels.  This is
another case of someone including one of my favorites on this thread.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 10:47:20 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Oct7.124735.21802@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>
>Now here we have the makings of one of the better threads in years.
>Good books which are just too damn boring to read. I would certainly 
>include Charles Prolix Dickens, a lot of the Shagger Pagger, all of
>Milton, &c., &c.
>

	Disagree.  PR yes, PL no.  SA is *incredible*, must not
	be on this list.

>							Fido

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mcrosby@nyx.cs.du.edu (Matthew Crosby)
Subject: Re: Fictitious Fiction
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: Morgenstern, Garp, Trout
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 22:34:01 GMT

In article <scs.719011669@hela.iti.org> scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons) writes:
>evanh@sco.COM (Evan Hunt) writes:
>
>>nickles@sage.cc.purdue.edu (john a nickles) writes:
>
>>>As the subject line says, I am looking for books (or movies or plays) in
>>>which reference is made to a book, movie or play that does not really exist.
>
>>These are incredibly common in fantasy - I think Robert Aspirin started the
>>trend with his mock historical quotes at the beginning of the chapters. 
>
>Preceeds Bob by many a year.  Certianly Lovecrafts "The Necromonicon"
>is among the more famous in fantasy.
>
>Tim Powers has made an interesting career out William Ashbless, quoting
>him in almost all his novels and making him the centerpiece of one.

And don't forget Tolkien.  (eg: The Red Book of Westmarch)

Of course Tolkien went a little futher, making up several languages, alphabets,
a huge number of legends, etc, etc.

--
-Matt
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the net!
mcrosby@nyx.cs.du.edu  -or-  crosby@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:29:50 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Oct7.124735.21802@morrow.stanford.edu>  
francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
> Barbara Hlavin writes (anent Joyce Carol Oates):
> 
> 	But I would stoutly maintain that she is a good writer -- for
> 	someone else.
> 
> Now here we have the makings of one of the better threads in years.
> Good books which are just too damn boring to read. I would  
certainly 
> include Charles Prolix Dickens, a lot of the Shagger Pagger, all of
> Milton, &c., &c.

I like Dickens and don't find him boring.

My personal choice on the list would be Henry James. I've tried
to read several of his works. They seemed well written (and many
people whose opinions I respect tell me they are very good), but
I could never make it more than 50 or so pages into them. 

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: ath@linkoping.trab.se (Anders Thulin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Date: 11 Oct 92 09:24:50 GMT
Organization: Telia Research AB, Teknikringen 2B, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden

No votes for Meredith yet?  Diana at the Crossways.

-- 
Anders Thulin       ath@linkoping.trab.se 	013-23 55 32
Telia Research AB, Teknikringen 2B, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Walcott laureate
Summary: Derek wins
Keywords: Nobel dreams
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:33:14 GMT
Reply-To: lnh@physics.arizona.edu
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner


I have to admit that a) I was not expecting any English-speaking
writers to win the Nobel Wise Prize in Literature, and b) if I had
thought about it, I would not have picked Derek Walcott as the likely
person.

Well, well.

Anyway, Walcott was one of those writers read in the anthologies that I
mentally tagged as "to be read more", but I have not yet done so.  Can
anyone more knowledgible than I recommend selected works of his corpus?

	Larry "Pompous before his coffee" Hammer
--

LNH@physics.arizona.edu     \   One like a wombat prowled obtuse
GEnie: L.HAMMER2             \  and furry  -- Christina Rossetti
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Help with Milton's Paradise Lost
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:34:55 GMT
Organization: pubs
In-reply-to: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu's message of 15 Oct 92 04:00:09 GMT


Satan, addressing Death:

Whence and what art thou, execrable shape, that dar'st, though grim and
terrible, advance thy miscreated front athwart by way?

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books