HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: randy@megatek.com (Randy Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: XLH vs Big Twin(accolades for the randyramaman)
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:32:48 GMT
Reply-To: randy@megatek.com
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

In article <BxM23B.E00@news.cso.uiuc.edu> crsg9887@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chad R. Sandstrom) writes:
|A glorious piece of writing I did just read.  My praise goes out
|to R. Davis the ZX-1.1 Pilot.

   Thank you, thank you...  You might get that keyboard fixed, though, you
are having trouble with the "." key.

|  You have the intellectual inertia
|of a truck and the logicical incisivneness of a large shard of 
|glass left upon the roadway.

   Interesting analogies.  Might be better if they made sense.  Work on it,
Chad...

|  May you never meet up with any 
|actual trucks or shards whilst riding your bike of choice,

  Same to you.  They would both fare about the same, although the beefier
tires I have might stand up to the glass a little better :-).

| and
|may you please take your noisy prattle to rec.motorcycles where
|it belongs.

  Poor baby...  No thanks, I'm happy right here for the moment.  You are
free to leave anytime, though, if you don't like my "noisy prattle".  PLEASE,
feel free to put me in your kill file...  It really won't bother me a bit.

|  I would be happy to hear any substantive comments
|that the man of the low black number 13 could (if he would)
|contribute to this Bulletin Bored "rec.motorcycles.harley"

  Work on that sentence, Chad, it don't make sense.  I'll take a stab at what
I think you meant to say anyway: sorry, I can't help you spend thousands of
dollars trying to get a Harley to put out more horsepower than the factory
saw fit to make them with.  If I had any suggestions, I'd be happy to share
them.

|The name of the game here is Harley Davidson Motorcycles.

  I do beleive we were discussing Harley Davidson Motorcycles, or did you
miss the constant reference?  Please, feel free to complain to my local system
administrator if you find my comments offensive, inappropriate, or even the
slightest bit bothersome to you.

|chad sandstrom - FLSTN skipper

  Skipper is about right...  Watch out for the turns to starboard (and to 
port, also, for that matter)...

Randy Davis                            Email: randy@megatek.com
ZX-11 #00072 Pilot                            megatek!randy@uunet.uu.net
DoD #0013                                     ucsd!megatek!randy
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: dormont@spot.Colorado.EDU (DORMONT WILLIAM  M)
Subject: Which cam to use???
Keywords: stroker, non-race
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:21:13 GMT

Hi - I haven't checked in here for awhile.  I'm the guy who's rebuilding
a '79 FXE basket that's got a 4 3/4" S&S stroker kit in it.  I'm not
a racer - I want a strong motor that is as reliable as a stroked shovel
can be.  I've decided to shitcan the solid lifters and go back to 
hydraulics.  My biggest current problem (besides cash flow, and deciding
which shop to entrust my motor work to) is deciding which cam to run.
Several shops automatically say "Andrews BH" when I ask them.  I'm 
wondering if, for reliability and longevity, I should use something like
a "J", or even go low compression and use a "2".  What I'm looking for
is mostly low to midrange power - I don't need to rev past ~5500.  I'm
planning to gear it tall since I love to be able to count the explosions
at most speeds.  Does anyone out there have similar tastes and experience?
  Thanks in advance for any posts or email replies -

			Denny Powers
			c/o dormont@spot.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: mmanning@icomsim.com (Michael Mannning)
Subject: Re: Riviera 4 valve heads
Organization: Icom Simulations
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:41:34 GMT

Chris deHahn writes:

>> Using the CV carb with 4V heads is a waste.  It's a POS to begin with and too
>> small to boot. You have to get rid of that VOES junk, too, which means changing
>> the ignition. Your experience with an S&S 'B' is an anomaly, they work very
>> well on Evo motors. No, you can't vrooom-vroom - go from idle to WFO without
>> bogging the motor with a 'B' or 'D' carb. If this type of poseur activity is a
>> priority, then go with an S&S 'E' or 'G', they have accelerator pumps which
>> will
>> let you vrooom-vroom.

>> IMO you're much better off going with a more traditional straightforward
>> approach.

>> ignition - Dyna S single fire
>> Coils - Dyna
>> Carb - S&S 'E'
>> Cam - depends if Sportster or Big Twin
>> Pistons - S&S (TRW), Arias or Wiseco 10:1 comp
>> heads - ported and flowed by someone that knows what they're doing
>> Pipes - pick 'em

I'm not sure if I wasn't being clear or that my poster munging my post made it difficult to follow. At any rate I was more curious about the Riviera 4V heads for curiosity sake than actually considering them. What I'm actually planing on is very similar to what you suggest.

|> I'm planing on milling the heads on mine to get the compression up to about
|> 9.5 to 1 were I think it should be. Caming it and maybe replacing the valve
|> springs with the XR750 style springs and adjustable push rods depending on the
|> cam I choose. I like the CV carb so far, so I plan on keeping it after I
|> drill/replace the jets. I already have slip fits on it.

True, I didn't mention the ignition. But my brain had been adding up the costs of everything and decided to omit it from the list so that I could add it to it later as a "nail soup" ingredient. I also didn't mention porting, but I figure that when I took the heads to Gary at the shop he'd convince me that I might as well do it since I have them off for only a few more $$. Saying that he knows what he's doing is an understatement. If I think about it too much and add up what is going to cost me in advance, 

I'll have a hard time rationalizing this stuff to myself and might not do it.

I'll give some though to new pistons vrs. milling the heads.

I'll do the carb last if at all, this will convince me that the contribution it's making is real & necessary.

This is the first time that I've been accused of being a "poseur" for wanting an accelerator pump. Next I'll be called a WEAKLING, doormat, invertebrate, jellyfish, milksop, Milquetoast, mollycoddle, namby-pamby, sissy, sop for using my clutch.

--
mmanning@icomsim.com

`92 FLSTF Fat Boy
`92 Ducati 900SS
From: gharriso@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Graeme Harrison)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: XLH vs Big Twin
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:51:35 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

First of all I'd like to point out that I've *never* owned nor ridden
a Sportster...just packed on one once. However, I do know of people
who owned both and thought I'd pass on one such XLH vs FLH tale.

In 1977 when I bought my first Harley, a 1975 FLH ratbike, in December
one cold winter night for $2800 in Castro Valley I decided to contact
my friend, Steve Rich, who lived on Portola Drive in Santa Cruz and
owned a '74 XLH1000 with extended forks to see if I could crash at
his digs that night but didn't tell him what kind of Harley I got. 

Later, after freezing my ears off over Hwy #17 which goes over the
Santa Cruz Mountains and startling cagers who couldn't believe a
biker would be out in such cold weather, I pulled up at Steve's
house and blipped the throttle a few times. He and his wife came
running out astonished that it was a big 74" Hog.

I took Steve out for a spin on the Hog and pulled over at some
convenience store to BS with him. First of all, he said that my
bike was a 1000 times better than his Sportster and was hoping
that I hadn't bought a Sportster. I asked him why and he said
that he had too many problems with his and the vibration was
unbearable on long trips. I asked him why he never told me this
before and he said, "Pride."

About two months later he bought a 1970 FLH stripper and sold his
Sportster for $2500. He *loved* his FLH and was happy to be rid of
his Sportster. That made quite an impression on me.

I know that the '82-'85 Ironheads were the best of that bunch and
the '86 and newer blockhead Sportsters are even better, but if I
was to pick between a XLH Evo or an earlier Shovelhead I'd go with
big twins. In fact, right now there's two ads in the local shopper
rag here called *South Bay Dealer* with a 1979 Lowrider for $5800
firm which looks really clean and a 1974 FXE for $5250/BO. Even
though they're not as smooth as the Evo big twins they're still
smoother than the Sportsters and offer more room, too. 

This is not intended to say that Sportsters suck, but to compare
them to big twins so as to help those who are trying to decide
between a newer Sportster or older big twin. It's all a matter
of personal choice. I like Sportsters, but at 6'3" 230 lbs they
don't fit me too well. 

Graeme Harrison
DoD#0649
'Jeez, this moto feels like a bicycle!'
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: felske@erich.triumf.ca (FELSKE, WAYNE W.)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: XLH vs Big Twin
Date: 10 Nov 1992 16:30 PST
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: erich.triumf.ca
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


> 
>|>Isn't it odd that although
>|> there are lines drawn a Harley rider and the  others that there are
>|> still clowns out there improperly dressed, driving so fast that there
>|> is little time to enjoy the ride, isn't that what it is all about?
> 
> (I have also upgraded myself
>from riding rice burners to riding an American bikes...Harleys...*smile*) 
> 
>I really enjoy riding.  It's like clean, good "fix" for me.  There is nothing
>in the world like it.

    1 
        Sportsters are not close to a Big Twin. Nor are they close to a rice
rocket. They are thier own and unique. No, not as comfy as a low rider, but
faster and more responsive. Not as fast as a FXR, but more comfy.
        My wife now rides a 91 1200 and I love it when she lets me ride it.
    2
       Maybe just  seems like it but of the accidents I've heard of this year
just  as many were on a Big V. It has also occurred to me that the mainstream
riders as a group are getting older as maybe half of the bad accidents I've
heard of this year involved riders over 30 years of age. I think the bad trafic
is getting to even the experienced riders out thier. Or is it my imagination?

    Wayne Felske      Still surviving the streets of Vancouver.
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: I'm surprised that...
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:22:59 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Nov11.013534.4182@c3.PLA.CA.US>, niall@c3.PLA.CA.US
(Neal Bedard) writes:
>... there hasn't been one mention of Sonny Barger's release from prison
>here
>in r.m.h. Fascinating that this would go unnoticed here; it was a major
>deal
>in the Bay Area, getting coverage on all four local news channels (and
>probably
>CNN too.)

OK, I'll bite on this.......

I didn't get to go 'cause I had my reserve weekend to do, but my wife 
went with some friends of ours (the mother & SO of the little girl 
wearing the Sonny Barger T-Shirt in the ads tryin' to sell 'em in 
magazines). Needless to say, the law enforcement folks had a grand ol' 
time with the cameras, etc. Isn't the RICO law wonderful??? My ol' lady 
said everyone was very well behaved, and the party was really pretty 
nice. And I was off stuck playin' Rambo up in the sacramento river 
delta...... patriotism is a bizarre thing........... 
>
>One hapless interviewer had the cheek to ask Sonny "What do you plan to do
>now?" "Stay out of jail" was Sonny's to-the-point answer. The Channel 7
>newsdweeb made a snide remark about Sonny drinking "yuppie bottled water
>because he isn't allowed alcohol as a condition of his parole. Just proves
>again how totally weak the mainstream media are when it comes to evenhanded
>coverage of motorcycling matters.

They couldn't actually admit that we are just a (slightly skewed) cross 
section of the american population now could they?? Then they would 
have to think of a different kind of nemesis for all those B grade 
movies.....

Later all, Eddie

Don't tread on me..........................................I bite
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Eddie Kieger                             efk00@cd.amdahl.com 
For Pay:      System Design Engineer     Amdahl Corp.
              Bringing you better mainframe computers
For Fun:      "River Rat"                SBU-XI SPECWARGRU1 (USNR)
              Bringing hellfire and brimstone to a river near you!
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Subject: Re: Riviera 4 valve heads
Originator: markk@sparcplug
Reply-To: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 01:10:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.173341.26529@engage.pko.dec.com>, dehahn@strokr (chris dehahn) writes:

>The heads work. They are NOT a bolt on affair. How long they will last is very
>questionable at this point. The cam is almost completely square, it's gotta
>beat the snot out of the valve seats.

Valve and seat life is one of the advantages of the 4 valve design.
The valve to seat contact area is much greater for two small valves
than for one large one.  This allows the two valve springs to exert a
much greater closeing force than one while not dmamging the seats.
This allows you to run a lumpy cam or higher red line.

>IMO you're much better off going with a more traditional straightforward
>approach.
>
>ignition - Dyna S single fire
>Coils - Dyna
>Carb - S&S 'E'
>Cam - depends if Sportster or Big Twin
>Pistons - S&S (TRW), Arias or Wiseco 10:1 comp
>heads - ported and flowed by someone that knows what they're doing
>Pipes - pick 'em
>
>This should get you in the neighborhood of 80hp at the rear wheel.

IMHO, judging from the cam profile, the Riviera design is a cylinder
head looking for a bottom end to take full advantage of its breathing
capacity and rev capabilities.  I'd like to see a little less cam and
a lot higher red line.  Does anyone know what the reliable rev limit
is for a built bottom end?  I'd like to try punching out the bore and
shortening up the stroke to see if I could get one to spin at 8000 -
9000 rpm all day.  70 - 80 HP/liter or more at the wheel might be
achieveable.  I think the upper bound for a streetable large
displacement twin is over 100 HP/liter at the rear wheel (the fastest
Ducatis).  Any thoughts?


--
)V(ark)<               markk@tcs.com                   DoD #400
1988 FZR400            1985 ZX900 Ninja             1977 RD400D
            TCSI Berkeley, CA USA  (510) 649-3781
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley,tx.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles
From: root@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith)
Subject: Re: Finally! I have it!
Organization: Why do you suspect that?
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 16:18:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.170117.25566@bcrka451.bnr.ca> duncan@bcrka466.bnr.ca (Ross Duncan) writes:
>Congratulations on the FLHS Mike!
>
>So, what doodads do you plan to add to it?
>

A buddy of mine just bought a Harvey Doodison and then bolted a chrome pig
onto the front fender ... 

If you like, I'll check and see where he bought it (the chrome pig).


>Regards, Ross
>
>DoD #1141
>1976 Kawasaki KZ200
>1991 Kawasaki VULCAN 750
>1992 Harley-Davidson FLHS (Spring of 1993)
>


Charlie Smith   charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org  csmith@dsac.dla.mil  whois ces10
MOA# 52888, RA# 15633, DoD# 0709, AMA# 574722, Buckey Beemers 411, BK Ohio V
BMW K1100-LT, R69S, R27 and other even less worthwhile [ 2 | 3 ] wheel stuff

            {  comments about chrome pigs deleted  }
From: jstalvio@niksula.hut.fi (Jukka Sakari Talvio)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: I'm surprised that...
Date: 13 Nov 92 06:53:32 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology

In article <1992Nov11.013534.4182@c3.PLA.CA.US> niall@c3.PLA.CA.US (Neal Bedard) writes:

>.... there hasn't been one mention of Sonny Barger's release from
prison here


This IS an international newsgroup and there are Harley owners and
dreamers here that never heard about Sonny Barger before. What was he
accused of doing? Did he do it?

I bought a few American Harley magazines last summer. They all seemed
to mention "our brother's in jail". Does riding a hog make one commit
crimes or are the criminal minds especially  taken to Harleys? Why
should that be? I do know that the bike is so expensive here in
Finland that I would need to rob a bank or two before I could buy one.
Is that it?

I was also wondering... I have spent almost a year in the US and the
variety of cultures and the exquisite blends they form never ceased to
fascinate me. Why is it that there were only caucasian riders in the
magazines? Is it only us that find cruising down a country road in
search of Zen and having our butt gently fondeled by the vibration
of a V2 engine such an exhilarating experience. Surely not.

======================Jukka.Talvio@hut.fi=============================
=  A man with one face, few moods, no god and a mind of his own.     =
*  Above opinions are not represented by any organization, which is  *
*  not to say they shouldn't be.                                     *
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: arnie@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Arnie Skurow)
Subject: Re: Finally! I too have it!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:28:19 GMT

In article <Bx9BxD.Co1@news.cso.uiuc.edu> crsg9887@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chad R. Sa
ndstrom) writes:
>
>My 1993 Heritage Softail Nostalgia it now mine all mine!
>
>It has been raining all week off and on but I have
>managed to get 150 miles on "My Preciousss"
>
>The rain did give me the chance to install the windsheild
>and boy does that help keep the windchill down (the temp
>has hovered in the 30's this week) (err is that "windchill
>up?")
>
>I am almost embarrassed when I try to describe how sweet
>this bike is to my friends it seems sooo extravagant.
>But, I forget all about the guilt once I'm riding.
>
>I had thought about getting the M6 primary chain tensioner
>and install it at the 500 mile check up but my dealer said
>that they work but add extra noise and he's seen destructive
>results after hard shifts with the M6. I'll try to get more

I've been running an M6 for a couple of years now.  I had it in
my 1988 FLSTC for two years and when I purchased an 89 FLHS I
took out the M6 from the Heritage and put it in the HS.  I've
never heard of any negative results with the M6 and many of
my riding compatriots have purchased them based on my recommendation.

Ask your dealer for more proof.

Arnie Skurow
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: hog@bnr.ca (Roger Seelaender)
Subject: re:MERCEDES MOTORCYCLE???? 
Reply-To: hog@brtph259@bnr.ca  
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP Info Systems
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:55:00 GMT

I am also not aware of Mercedes ever making a motorcycle, but
its founders from Daimler did experiment with several 2 wheelers
in the late 1800's. Check out the Febuary 1993 picture of the
Landmark Classic Bike calendar. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Seelaender   1985 FXWG
From: jjd1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (james.j.dutton)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: XLH vs Big Twin(accolades for the randyramaman)
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:56:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <BxM23B.E00@news.cso.uiuc.edu> crsg9887@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chad R. Sandstrom) writes:
>A glorious piece of writing I did just read.  My praise goes out
>to R. Davis the ZX-1.1 Pilot.  You have the intellectual inertia
>of a truck and the logicical incisivneness of a large shard of 
>glass left upon the roadway.  May you never meet up with any 
>actual trucks or shards whilst riding your bike of choice, and
>may you please take your noisy prattle to rec.motorcycles where
>it belongs.  I would be happy to hear any substantive comments
>that the man of the low black number 13 could (if he would)
>contribute to this Bulletin Bored "rec.motorcycles.harley"
>The name of the game here is Harley Davidson Motorcycles.
>
>--
>chad sandstrom - FLSTN skipper
 
Mayhaps Chad  the intellectual would like to stop pissing into the wind and
actually post something about Harley Davidson Motorcycles.

 
================================================================================
 Ipsissimus of the Inner Order of Sesquipedalian Fruitcakes 
 Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. DoD#564. There ain't no more.
================================================================================
From: behanna@phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Riviera 4 valve heads
Date: 10 Nov 92 03:15:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: research.1992Nov10.031549.15344
Reply-To: behanna@syl.nj.nec.com
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles.harley
Organization: NEC Systems Laboratory, Inc.

In article <1992Nov9.210904.18631@engage.pko.dec.com> dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com writes:
>--
>In article <1992Nov7.011018.3973@tcsi.com>, markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer) writes:
>|>
>|>IMHO, judging from the cam profile, the Riviera design is a cylinder
>|>head looking for a bottom end to take full advantage of its breathing
>|>capacity and rev capabilities.  I'd like to see a little less cam and
>|>a lot higher red line.  Does anyone know what the reliable rev limit
>|>is for a built bottom end?  I'd like to try punching out the bore and
>|>shortening up the stroke to see if I could get one to spin at 8000 -
>|>9000 rpm all day.  70 - 80 HP/liter or more at the wheel might be
>|>achieveable.  I think the upper bound for a streetable large
>|>displacement twin is over 100 HP/liter at the rear wheel (the fastest
>|>Ducatis).  Any thoughts?
>|>
>
>Yea, I think it'll turn a Big Twin harley into a Jap bike. All power, no
>torque. My motor revs to 8 grand although it's undercammed to
>redline at 7 grand for the street. Why give up the torque for another
>1,000 rpm? The torque is what beats the jap bikes. 
>
>As for 100hp at the wheel, that's easy. More is possible. When mine
>hits the dyno I'll let you know.

	7000 rpm with 4.75" stroke = 5500+ fpm piston speed.
	8000 rpm with 4.75" stroke = 6300+ fpm piston speed.

	How in the hell do you hold that motor together?  Most designs
that have reliability in mind (even Japanese motors that rev to 14000 rpm)
do not exceed 4500 fpm.

	All this assuming you have a 4.75" stroke.  Shorter strokes
will scale down the piston speed linearly, but you're still spinning
that engine awfully damn fast, especially considering the mass of
the reciprocating parts.

Inquiring (and maybe a bit jealous :-) minds,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114  KotHLF  1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike

Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC agree with any of this anyway?
From: crpresto@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Charlie Preston)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: buy a motorcycle
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:17:02 GMT
Organization: Illinois State University

When I saw the subject line I guessed it was a personal to Ed Green

Chas
Newsgroups: ucla.rumor,rec.motorcycles