From: sunny@me.cs.wm.edu (John S. Egbo)
Subject: Re: The White Man's Burden.
Organization: College of William & Mary, founded 1693
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 03:09:31 GMT

In article <C0Lz7K.FvG@panix.com> lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney) writes:
>What is your point?  That slavery was a barbaric practice?  So what
>else is new?  Slavery was a widespread practice all over the world in
>the 15th century.
  
Slavery was a widespread practice?  Can you elaborate?

E. D. Morel stated in his book what he considered the white man's burden.
If you disagree, then propose what you think that it is.  It is not enough
to say that slavery was widespread without proof.  Did the Africans take
Europeans into  slavery?  Can you elaborate on your assertion that slave
TRADE existed in Africa before the white man?  To what extent was the 
European just playing along an existing game?

> Read your history:  Shaka,
>Zulu, Geghis Khan, the Aztecs.  All were quite brutal with "the
>enemy."  For better or worse, the history of nation building is the
>history of brutal aggression and slavery (not to mention torture and
>rape).

Are you talking about war captives here or people stolen for the 
purpose of slavery?  [I find it interesting that whenever people try to
get a list of men (and women) of atrocities, they include on their list
Shaka Zulu, Idi Amin, Genghis Khan, even Lumumba and Malcom X and
occasionally Hitler; but NEVER Elizabeth I, King Henry, Goerge, or
Columbus.  Stefan Michalowski did this a while back. Just an interesting
aside.]

Since I suspect that you don't know, I will tell you something about the
old African cultures that the Europeans found.  The Africans had a civil 
and noble system; a philosophy that says that "there is no such thing as
a stranger, only friends you have NOT yet met."  A noble system that says
that you give your enemy the opportunity to avoid war; which usually is the
case.  A war with twenty casualities is regarded by those Africans (and any
reasonable human being) as a terrible loss.  While the Africans were not 
afraid of war, the back-bone of the African culture was diplomacy and as
such dimplomant were highly prized.

It was because of the African philosphy that "there is no such thing as a
stranger" that made them welcome the Europeans the way they did.  Many of
the first contacts with Europeans in the 15th century before slavery left
the European visitors impressed with the philosophies, political
institutions and cultures;  many wrote about their impressions.  (Democracy
is a NOT a western ideal; there are many African cultures where leadership
is completely distributed.)  At some point the Kings and Queens of Europe
decided to exploit the Africans; the African that was unprepared for the
the ability of Europeans for savagery.

The Europeans that visit Africa today are still impressed by the people's
nobility and general philosophy of living.  While much of the African culture
is being stolen by some European who copy them as solutions to their
culture's problem without crediting the source of inspiration, the media
reports has always focused on problems.  Perhaps, the western media's and 
educational institutions' focus on the negatives of Africa says something
about the white man's burden.  Of course politics, economics and general
quality of life is treatening the civility of many Africans all over the
world today.

I have gone off track in other to educate you. The purpose of this thread
should be on the Europeans burdens.  Thus our discussion should focus on the
nature of the white man's motivations and burdens.  For example some claim
that the white man's burden includes incalculable debt to Africa and its
people; includes what to do to maintain the lies it has told for many years;
includes Asia which contains cultures that has history just as barbaric as
his (Japan being one of them) with capacity to indescrimately subjugate.

>The only real difference between European barbarism and that in other
>countries was that, because of advanced technology, the Europeans have
>been able to be much more efficient and systematic about it than other
>cultures.   In particular, Europeans had large oceangoing vessels
>which allowed them to permanently carry large numbers of slaves away
>from their homelands.  They also knew how to forge wrought iron to
>make shackles, and guns.
>larry kolodney:(lkk@panix.com)

Please pardon me for asking how a barbaric act become inefficient.  Are
you for real or are just being euphemistic(sp?)?

-Sunny