HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall)
Subject: Re: Islam
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:18:29 GMT

v30004@vax1.cc.uakron.edu (Abeselom T Maasho 3460-457-801.) writes:

>I am a student from East Africa, and I recently read the autobiography
>about Malcom X.  I believe he is one of the greatest man.  The only
>thing I do not really agree with is that the portrayal of the islam
>religion as a solution to racisim.  I know that a Muslim who is black or
>yellow is not really seen as a Muslim by the Arab people.  They are seen
>more as 2nd class Muslims.  Am I correct in this assumption ?

This is probably less true at Hajj. But I think that ethnocentrism
is found to some extent among both Arab Sunnis and Iranian Shias in relation
to American and African muslims (and to each other). Just as it is found among
the Ashkenazic Jews in relation to the Ethiopian Jews and among European-
American Christians in relation to African-American Christians. It's just
part of the fallen human nature (al-nafs). Muhammed said, "Your very being
and existence is a sin which is like no other sin." (Hadith)
_______________________________________________________________________________

steven stovall
stovall@exeter.cs.ucla.edu
(310) 825-7307
From: mcbean@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Clinton's Disrespect For Jessee
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:45:31 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <1992Jul29.203653.1887@seq.uncwil.edu>, frankli@seq.uncwil.edu (william carter franklin) writes:
> 
>>Ah .. let's see, the Caribbean possibly?  Life is much more than a collection
>>of material possessions, it's about having dignity and worth also.
> 
>>McBean
> 
> 
> Thanks for the philosophy lesson, McBEANHEAD, but I don't remember
> mentioning that the criteria for "BEST PLACE TO LIVE" consisted
> of merely monetary things. Reread Please....(It's write above you).

I see tha I was mistaken.  I thought you were showing the mental agility of a
ten year old, but you're still in that three year old phase where you can't
address issues just parrot off random facts.  Grow up little boy....

McBean
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.african
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: Ethnicity
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 13:49:11 GMT
Followup-To: poster

In article <1992Jul24.234825.13796@panix.com>, lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney) writes:
> In <1992Jul24.211025.9135@panix.com> gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:
> 
> >In reference to ethnicities without territory, note that in
> >the Soviet Union "Jew" was an ethnic, not a religious category,
> >in fact an officially recognized ethnicity like "Russian" or
> >"Georgian."  However, the Jews did not have a territory,
> >unlike the other official ethnic groups.  There may have
> >been other ethnic groups in the same situation, but I am not
> >aware of them.
> 
> Actually Stalin DID create a "homeland" for the Jews of the Soviet
> Union.  It was an "autonomous region" located in the far east, near
> the border with China, and a few thousand Jews from European Russia
> actually settled there.
> 

Actually this was a resurrection of an early 19th century Czarist plan to
relocate the Jews out to Central Asia.  The section chosen was totally
arid and couldn't sustain much human life.  It was a politically
neutral way to get rid of the Jews, having lots of them starve
along the way.  It also didn't address the Jews of Armenia,
Georgia, the Crimea and the Caucasus who had been those areas for
longer than the non-Jews.

		Seth Rosenthal
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson)
Subject: Re: Modern African-Americans need ISLAM
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:51:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.143928.10020@cco.caltech.edu> bes@cco.caltech.edu  
(Behnam Sadeghi) writes:
> In article <1992Jul16.173421.951@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu>  
johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson) writes:
> 
> >     I agree that, in a religious text such as the Qur'an, words often  
> >have both a literal and a metaphorical meaning. Given that the Prophet  
> >Muhammed grew up in a slaveholding society, it shouldn't be surprising  
> >that he would have used the term "slave" as a metaphor for someone who  
is  
> >obedient to God, even himself. St. Paul uses the same literary  
technique  
> >in his letters. But let's not forget the literal for the sake of the  
> >metaphorical. My experience has been that religious people often try to  
> >"spiritualize" away passages in their religious texts that they find  
> >uncomfortable, thereby letting both themselves and the human founder of  
> >the religion "off the hook". Whatever literary devices that the Prophet  
> >Muhammed used to help him convey his Message, it is also true that, by  
> >choosing to regulate the practice of slavery in _this world_ rather  
than  
> >abolish it forthwith, he willingly engaged in a moral compromise. That  
is  
> >the issue here. Let there be no mistake about where I stand: _Any_  
> >compromise with slavery, in _any_ form, is unacceptable.
> 
> The Qur'an has a number of passages on slavery.  
> 
> 1)  The Holy Qur'an mentions that slaves can be taken only in war.
> This regulation of slavery is comparable to today's system of POWs.
> 
> 2)  The Qur'an specifically asks people to free their slaves if the
> slaves requst it.
> 
> I think if Muslims had faithfully followed the Qur'anic commandments,
> slavery would have been virtually eliminated within a few generations
> of the Prophet.
> 
> Note:  In addition to the divine verses of the Qur'an, we have  
historical
> reports of the statements of the Prophet about slavery.  These mostly 
> concern with the fact that slaves must be treated in a most humane way
> and that they should not be beaten.   Freeing slaves is mentioned in
> these reports as a means of atoning for ones' sins.   For example, if
> you wrongly break your fast in Ramadan, you have to free so many slaves.
> 
> One should note that many of the closest associates of the Prophet 
> were slaves or former slaves, amongst them the Black "Bilal" from 
> Abyssinia.  He's the first person in Islam who performed the Call to 
> the Prayers (adhan).
> 
> >Arthur Johnson
> 
> Behnam Sadeghi

     There's nothing really new here that I haven't already responded to  
in my responses, first to Khalid Khan, and then to Fred Rice. Rather than  
simply repeat myself, I think that it would be more useful for you to read  
Khalid's original post, my response to it, and the ensuing dialogue  
between me and Fred. Afterwards, if you still dispute what I've said, I'm  
willing to discuss.

Arthur Johnson
johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu
From: rb3a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rhonda E. Burton-Arnold)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Mo'Money
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:06:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.IeRg8EG00iUyE35lIS
Organization: Vice President for Academic Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I can see why this is film is called Mo' Money.  It's simple, I wasted
my money so others could get paid!

Take it from me...save yo' money' so you too can have mo' money.

what a rip off and waste of time...

Rondeo
From: carl.camurca@wugate.wustl.edu!travel (Carl Camurca) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Violence, defense & Islam
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:54:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Travel Online, St. Louis, MO, USA
Reply-To: carl.camurca@wugate.wustl.edu!travel (Carl Camurca) 

Hi everybody!

BS>From: bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi)
BS>Subject: Re: ?Islam

BS>Jihad is indeed a reality of Islam. Holy War is an incorrect
translation
BS>of it. It literally means "struggle" and by that is meant struggle in
BS>the path of God. The greatest Jihad, or "Jihadi Akbar" is the
spiritual
BS>struggle against one's evil temptations.

Thanks so much for the elucidation. It happens very seldom in this echo,
that an innocent question gets a straight and clear explanation instead
of picking on the color or the name of the poster...


BS>Jihad may also take violent forms.  But we are not talking about
BS>aribtrary violence here.  The Qur'an regulates the type of violence.

BS>With all due respect to pacifist philosophers, be they Ghandi or Dr. King,
BS>a world-view which does not permit the use of force even in self-defense
BS>is not practical on a national level.  For example, if Nazi Germany
BS>invades you, you want to defend youself.   The Qur'an specifically
BS>permits the use of violence as a method of defense and a means to put
BS>an end to oppression.

BS>Malcolm X, as a Muslim, said that he accepted the use of violence for defens
BS>against violence.  He said, in fact, that if the violence is in self-defense
BS>he wouldn't even call it "violence," he would call it "intelligence."  He
BS>said --and I am praphrasing-- "We are only non-violent to those who are
BS>non-violent to us."

Well, now we got another problem. *WHO* defines, what "defense" is and
when it is necessary? Hitler was defending the lebensraum of the Aryan
race, Bush was defending the "free" world in Iraq, Grenada, Vietnam
etc., Breshnev defended The Only Ideology in Afghanistan, Khomeini
defended the Islam against the evil West, especially evil heretics
like Rushdi. Are the lyrics of the song "Cop killer" an appell for
self-defense? The German army knew a term called "Vorne-Verteidigung"
("forward defense"). What does this mean exactly? Doesn't it sound more
like attack? I mean, this is slippery ground, by this way "defense"
becomes quickly something different and uncontrollable.

BS> Behnam Sadegi

Thoughtful, Carl.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * We now return to our regularly scheduled flame-throwing..
From: slzm9@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: <None>
Summary: Nonviolence?
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:17:02 GMT
Expires: 15 Aug 92 15:17:30 MDT
Organization: Utah State University


   Does anyone else out there think that racism is America can
be curbed without violence? If so how?
   If not why not? Please be more explicit that "whitey
                   is about to reap what he has sown."

Peace, but not without justice,
zip
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Tuesday, 28 Jul 1992 15:24:39 EDT
From: <LSMITH@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Death of Mary Wells
Distribution: usa
 <stovall.712281324@ficus.cs.ucla.edu>

Berry Gordy may not be any sleazier than others in the industry, but his sleaze
 is the product of his exploitation of his OWN PEOPLE, which does, in fact, mak
e him worse.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: brs@boole.acc.Virginia.EDU (Blanche R. Steppe)
Subject: William Carter Franklin
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:39:10 GMT


William Carter Franklin, you are one pathetic boy.  You come across as being
very ignorant.  In fact, you are beyond ignorant or stupid, you are just plain
DUMB.  Why does your mother let you out of the house?  Maybe she is dumb too
so you inherited it.  Chris Gray and Malcolm Moore have tried several times to 
have intelligent discussions with you.  However, your brain cells are so dead
that you are not capable of grasping the truth.  At first I thought that you 
were on drugs, but then I realized that this is your natural state.  I really
feel sorry for you and your mother.  I am a mother and I would hate myself if
I had a son like you!  

You may think that your remarks are making African Americans angry, but I for
one feel sorry for you.  WE know the truth and you don't so, so you do not
affect us.  Find something constructive to do or we WILL start contacting
your systems administrator to have your net privileges revoked.  This has
been done to other idiots in the past.

Blanche

Remember that "the empty wagon rattles the most".
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: pssres12@ucs.usl.edu (Vignes Gerard M)
Subject: Re: Clinton's Disrespect For Jessee Jackson
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 07:36:27 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.161541.25510@news.cs.indiana.edu> ejohnson@graph.. (Liz Johnson) writes:
>
>I'm curious as to what you would like Clinton to do as regards to minority  
>issues. This is a serious question -- not a flame at all.  When I saw the  
>Clinton interview with Bill Moyers, he named racial inequality as the most  
>serious problem in America.  I haven't read the Democratic platform or  
>Clinton's economic plan so perhaps his statements in the interview are the  
>rhetoric you are talking about and his plans don't follow through. In any  
>case, I would like to know your opinions on what the Dems should do.
>
>Thanks!
>Liz Johnson

OK Liz, here goes:

	Actually, it isn't really the Democrats problem at all,
	in that there's almost nothing they can do about it.

	A single political party cannot fairly represent
	as broad and diverse a constituency as that which
	the Democrats are attempting to attract.

	The Democratic Party cannot attract southern "Bubba" voters,
	a large and missing segment of their original supporters,
	and still represent the best interests of minorities.
	Someone will have to give up something,
	and you can possibly guess who and what that might be.

	But more importantly, minority leaders cannot continue
	to look upon the Democratic Party as the sole guarantor
	of their civil rights and economic well-being.

	Minority activists need to recognize the implications
	of our rapidly shifting political landscape
	and continue to shape their strategies so that
	their longstanding goals can be accomplished.

	Specifically, minority leaders need to strengthen
	their political leverage by participating
	aggressively and with heavy voter turnouts
	in BOTH political parties: Democratic and Republican.

	Middle-class African Americans cannot continue
	to shun the Republican party
	and then express shock and disdain
	when they realize it does not champion
	let alone even comprehend their concerns.

	The only cure for the myophia
	of a homogeneous political organization
	is a healthy injection of different cultures and viewpoints.
	
	But no amount of wishing and waiting
	is going the make a single-party system work.

							Gerard


-- 

                Mai, y'all hab'en lisd'nen ta d'voice ah

                         RADIO FREE LAFAYETTE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: kalam@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Kalam Ahmed)
Subject: warrior caste(the republican party)
Organization: University of Toronto Computing Services
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 06:17:50 GMT

t appears that bush and his cohorts are once again trying to bully the iraqi
people.it seems to be a recurrance of the old saddam bashing. The  yankee
warriors and it's republican sponsors are  once again trying to refight the
the iraqi people with the aid of the so called u.n. with the aim of killing
colored people with hi-tech wepons.
when bush was elected everyone knew he was itching to send his warriors into action thus, continuing the policy of ex-pres regan. under bush we had panama and
iraq, and now we are about to have iraq revisited, because it's the policy of the republicans to present themselves as super patriots, and police of the world,
especially at this time.sure he would like to use this foreign adventure to get
re-elected, but i guess the people are onto this.

the linkage of the gop and the warrior cast is not new(read Thimoty Leary)
from the time of the civil war through eisenhower eight out of thirteen
presidents have been ex-generals or glamerous warriors. the tridition of the
warrior president goes back to washington, the father of america, he won his
first fame in the indian wars.

the american warriors -the generals,admirals, the cops- are all overwhelmingly
republicans - this is ominous.George Marshall the only famous democratic generalof this century is renowned for his plans to wage peace. bush and his christian
fanatics, together with the war wing of the party are hell bent on subjugating
the third-world.

the intelligent blak men and women of america who represent the red-white-blue
ideals of initiative, tolerance, humor, compassion, fair-play and who dislike
armed bullies, will not allow bush and cohorts to drag them into another war

so let the  people issue some patriotic commands to bush and co.
ABOUT FACE! ORDER ARMS! AT EASE!.
:
   

 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney)
Subject: Re: Good Quote
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:41:06 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1992Jul21.121402.7703@vax.oxford.ac.uk> mcbean@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:

>Jews are allowed to hate Nazis, Kuwaitis Hate
>Iraqis, but never must a black man express his hatred and anger against racism
>by whites.

No one on this list has criticized anger and hatred of racism.  The
criticism has been when the anger is directed at all whites, blindly
and stupidly.


-- 
larry kolodney:(lkk@panix.com) 
_(*#&)#*&%)@(*^%_!*&%^!)*&#+!*&$+!?&%+!*&^_)*&#%)*&^%#+&
The past is not dead, it's not even past.   - Wm. Faulkner
From: stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Good Quote
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:43:07 GMT
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department

frankli@seq.uncwil.edu (william carter franklin) writes:

>If the crow has been in the corn field ruining the
        ^^^^
>crops, then you watch the crows when they come to roost

I think the chickens have come home to roost on that one, Jim.

_______________________________________________________________________________

steven stovall
stovall@exeter.cs.ucla.edu
(310) 825-7307
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Death of Mary Wells
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:09:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Jul27.231841.4699@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
>In article <92209.065326FKR@psuvm.psu.edu>,
>FKR@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>>Published in the today's news(AP), singer Mary Wells died of cancer. The
>>cancer was from a condition which seemed to existed since about a year ago.
>>She was treated for cancer of the larynx, but the cancer was not caught in
>>time. She was 49.
>.
>.
>I personally am tired of hearing about the deaths of ex-Motowners
>like David Ruffin and now Mary Wells who have died relatively young.
>Excuse me, but f--k Berry Gordy, the ripoff artist. Despite the
>pittance he and Ms. Ross pitched in, it was only blood money for the
>death of Flo Ballard. Her family still needs bread to pay for her
>bills and probably now for her funeral.


Amen. 'Nuff said.
-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: cdaigle@bnr.ca (Christopher Daigle)
Subject: Re: Islam and America's Inner-Cities
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:54:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul13.104839.3481@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:
>In <1992Jul12.194117.29609@athena.cs.uga.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Jul11.205123.7315@athena.mit.edu> femibyte@athena.mit.edu (Olufemi G Anthony) writes:
>
>>Some people will answer that Christianity is a religion given to black
>>people by white people, and is thereby more of a hinderance than a
>>help. My answer is usually that, with all due respect, Islam is more
>>of an Arab religion than an African relision.
>
>Islam is *not* an Arab religion.  Proof: the Qur'an (Islam's holy book),
>in its many passages, always addresses its audience as "O mankind" or "O
>Believers", etc.  Only once, *once*, does it ever address an Arab group.
>In one passage it addresses itself to some "Desert Arabs" who were not
>following Islam properly -- it was thus addressing a particular instance
>in Islamic history.  Islam, from the very beginning, addressed itself to
>*mankind*.  
>

My readings of African History have taught me that both Christianity
and Islam are "African" religions. In fact, since all civilizations
have there roots in Africa, all religions are "African" religions
in some form or another.(Ref: Diop, 'African Origins of Civilizations')
-- 
-------------------------------------------------
All opinions expressed are strictly my own
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: janhsu@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi)
Subject: Korean-American/African-American Relationship 
Summary: Improvement
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:21:42 GMT

Hello! I am currently studying the relationships between various ethnic 
groups of this nation, specifically the African-American and Asian American
communities. I'd like to hear from some of you what your views on Korean 
Americans are. I am free to listen to stereotypes, truths, or any thought 
that has surfaced regarding Korean Americans. I realize that much tension
exists between these two communities, and I believe that the situation is
not unique. The past has witnessed similar racial tensions either in the 
U.S. or not. I also believe that with proper understanding and effort, the
two communities can successfully benefit from eachother's presence. But,
in order to do so, I feel people must first address their thoughts, biases,
and stereotypes of the other group. Therefore, I would like to discuss this
issue on soc.culture.african.american. Please feel free to actively participate
in the threat; more minds the better! 

Thanks,


-- 
    .  .      +-------------------------------+
  --|--|      | Mark Yun Wook Choi            |
   /.\ |      | janhsu@hardy.u.washington.edu |
  --|--|      +-------------------------------+  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Re: [Sharise Phelps:  Malcolm X]
Originator: barnhart@gagme
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:25:08 GMT

In article <9207200627.ad12066@VGR.BRL.MIL> bstring@mainz-emh2.army.mil (BOB STRINGFIELD) writes:
>Thanks Sharise!  I really needed that to help me thru these trying times.
>Brings to mind the thread of a conversation over on AFROAM-L.  Black
>leadership.  The discussion is centered upon who these so called leaders
>are without the definition thereof being given.  What constitutes a black
>leader?  Does anyone know.  Are there any more around who are willing to
>give up life for that of his fellow brother?
>--bob

Plenty!  One of em's my pastor; he has even been known to give up his life
for that of his fellow sister.  There are others too, and they constitute
a strong spiritual structure in black American Christendom.  Eric Lincoln's
book gives you a good idea of just how large and how strong this body of
leadership is.

But they aren't technologically advanced, many of them are up to their necks
in mundane pastoral concerns, and to this day their views toward the public
policy arena, toward social action, and toward debate of social issues are
mixed at best.  So the "black leaders" you do see in the press are a small,
possibly unrepresentative sampling of the most publicly focused.  But they
are there, don't worry.  I think they -- and the women in leadership, who
are finally getting a voice -- are the last best hope for American
Christianity.


>********************
>I am a white Christian female who just finished reading (voluntarily) the
>autobiography of Malcolm X.
>
>I am awestruck by the honesty of this man and by the many ideas he had that I
>have never heard of before.  
>
>I just wanted to tell somebody.

Don't try tellin one of those guys with the X on their caps, sister,
it might dampen your spirits ...


-- 
Aaron (Barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us)
Evanston, Illinois        
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american