HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: The US Passenger Railroad Gap
Organization: LLNL
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 05:21:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.161341.15230@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne) writes:
>In article <1992Nov14.085532.4207@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

	[Details of a "railroad gap" of nearly a factor of 100 omitted...]

>There are a number of reasons for this.  First of all the European and
>Japanese trains are serving a population that is much more concentrated
>as well as the fact that the trains there are government owned and
>operated.

	Much more concentrated? Does anyone have any good figures on this??

	It seems to me that the Northeast is plenty concentrated.

>Many people think that since the tracks connect the cities, it would be easy to
>run passenger trains on these tracks.  Unfortunately, the heavy freight usage
>on these tracks (even today) have worn down the infra structure and the
>railroads really don't want to sideline a going freight train for the
>occasional passenger train.

	Then rebuild the old tracks and build new ones alongside of
them. Multiple tracking is fairly standard for heavily used rail
lines. Double or triple tracking should be sufficient, though short
single-track bottlenecks can be tolerated. But the problem here is
where the financing will come from. Since the private railroads are
now all in the freight business, they will have no reason to seriously
improve their lines unless they are paid to do it. Which puts most
passenger-rail improvements at the mercy of state and national
governments and how much money they see fit to spend. Studies show
that it is only the heaviest-trafficked lines that are likely to cover
capital costs from revenues in any reasonable amount of time; however,
that has actually happened with the Southeast TGV.

	[On how passenger train service is now gone from Columbus...]

	I agree that that is an unfortunate state of affairs. A train
that stopped at some time other than 3 AM would certainly be helpful.
From: mstoffan@uumark.UUCP (Mark Stoffan)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: UPDATE ON BOSTON TO PORTLAND, ME SERVICE
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 00:47:31 GMT
Reply-To: nlbbs!mstoffan@uunet.uu.net
Distribution: world
Organization: 


In article <168A597C3.M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org> M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org writes:

 > 
 > I noted the same story in our local paper (Haverhill Gazette).  The Maine
 > stops are Wells and Saco, with a seasonal stop added at Old Orchard Beach.

 > Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society > MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
 > Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
 > <M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>

        Another issue is taking shape in Portland right now over the 
location of the new station. Two sites are in the running, one along the 
main line near the site of the old Union Staion. The other is near the 
International ferry terminal, on a one-mile spur. The latter site is 
favored by politicians who want to unite cruise ships, the rail station
and a new aquarium. But putting the station on a spur would hamper the 
future extension of service further north to Brunswick and Augusta and 
cause a 20-30 minute delay while the train was turned/backed up to the 
main.
        Stay tuned.

        On another note, has anyone heard anything from Guilford lately? 
Colin Pease announced years ago that they would cooperate with Amtrak, but
that's the last word as far as I know.

 Mark Stoffan              nlbbs!mstoffan@uunet.UU.NET    (UUCP)
 Gorham, Maine  USA        mark@btsgatep.caps.maine.edu   (Internet)
From: btiffany@pbs.org
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Recording trains
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:24:26 GMT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <17NOV199213352686@alpha.sunquest.com>, rfj@alpha.sunquest.com (RICHARD F. JONES) writes:

> I have tried placing the microphone(s) adjacent to the tracks, about
> 10 to 15 feet from the tracks, suspended over the tracks (got some
> great engine sounds from this one!!) and between the tracks.  My
> problem is the frequent wind that often tags along with mile long
> freights travelling 60+ miles per hour.
> 
> I have used the usual foam wind screens, tried shielding the mikes in
> boxes (caused a sound distortion), etc.   Does anyone have any
> suggestions as to how I can get good recordings and not have the
> hurricane wind sounds along with the sounds of the train???
> 
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


I started recording trains in 1974.  I never had the problem from trackside,
except on very windy days; only while riding.  My expert advice to you is
to move farther away.  You'll probably get a better recording, too.

-- Bruce Tiffany
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:9046 ba.transportation:2705
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Failure of Proposition 156
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:38:41 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: LLNL

In article <1992Nov18.182041.1287@ntmtv> adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes:

[TRAC Annual Conference...]

>Going over the details is tiresome/tedious.  Some of the subjects covered
>at the all-day conference were: ...

prospects of
>passenger rail service on the Bay Area-Santa Rosa-Eureka corridor

	How did that go? I went along the NWP route to Santa Rosa by
GGT bus not too long ago, and the track is certainly there, though it
would need passing sidings and yard space, if not double tracking in
the more heavily to-be-used spots. Since the surviving NWP track ends
at Larkspur (I could see an abandoned trestle to Tiburon), it _could_
be extended to the Larkspur Ferry Station. This might mean that Amtrak
would have to add ferries to its bus fleet, or at least have timed
ferry connections to San Francisco. A bus or a van could go between
Richmond and Larkspur.

	[On a Central Valley TGV line...]

>The best plan according to the IURD CalSpeed alignment study is to
>construct an entirely new right of way that would pass somewhat to
>the east of Fresno and Bakersfield.

	East? Why east instead of west? West would mean shorter LA and
Bay Area connections. Or is this a typo?

The idea would be to *avoid*
>populated areas so as to keep as much of the line as possible at
>high-speed (200mph) running.  The initial trunk-line would connect
>San Francisco and Los Angeles roughly via San Jose, Gilroy, Pacheco
>Pass, Los Banos, Fresno, Bakersfield, and then via a new mountain
>crossing into the LA basin parallel to I-5.  Sacramento service
>would branch off the trunk-line in the valley somewhere between
>Fresno and Los Banos and would be something like $2 or $3 billion
>more.

 According the the study, the whole project will cost $9 billion.

	The next question is, of course, how to raise the money for
this venture.

	The Texas TGV is the only model so far, and even that is a
long way off from its intended total of $8 billion or so. I wonder how
it's doing so far.

	But if Clinton lives up to his campaign promises, things
_might_ be a little easier.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jomp@mentor.dk (Jan Otto Munch Pedersen)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Serious accident in Germany
Date: 16 Nov 1992 17:35:36 +0100
Organization: Mentor Informatik, Denmark
NNTP-Posting-Host: plys.mentor.dk

In the night between Saturday and Sunday a terrible accident occured in
the station Northeim on the line Hannover-Fulda.

A car in a southbound freight lost one of its "buffers". This caused 15
of the 43 cars to derail. Some of the derailed cars fell on the northbound
main track where express train #482 from Innsbruck to Copenhagen passed
in the same moment. The express hit the derailed cars with 120 km/h.

The engine of the express was smashed and the engineer killed. The first
two cars of the express derailed, and the next five cars turned over and
landed on the side. The remaining cars managed to stay on the track. One
of the overturned cars dropped down from a bridge and landed on a road.

So far 11 killed and more than 50 wounded have been found. It is feared
that more might be found, and that some of the wounded will die.

Seen by the loss of people it is the worst accident in Germany since the
Ruesselheim accident 3 years ago. Seen by the material damage it is
the worst accident for several years.

The important North-South line through Northeim is expected to be passable
again Monday evening. Trains have been rerouted via the nearby high speed
ICE-line.

Jan
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jis@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (jishnu.mukerji)
Subject: Re: Shuttle From Grand Central To Penn. Station
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:07:40 GMT

In article <z631mm_@rpi.edu> kaploww@sage.cs.rpi.edu (Wesley Kaplow) writes:
>As far as I can tell, the Penn. tracks (going east) 
>and the Central tracks do not
>meet until Westchester.  I pretty sure this is true because I know the
>Metro-North System very well, and the split for the New Haven line is
>basically on the Bronx-Westchester boarder, right below Mount Vernon.

The Hell Gate Bridge Line joins the Metro North New Haven Line just
west of New Rochelle station, at what used to be Shell Interlocking,
now it is CP Shell or CP <some number> and is controlled from MNCR's
CTC on Madison Avenue. This interclocking is going to be modified
drastically in the near future with the addition of a flyover to
reduce contention between westbound Amtrak trains and eastbound MNCR
trains. 

>There is another connection now, which is the so called "Empire Connection"
>(which is what this dicussion is all about).  Here the West Side link
>connects to the Hudson Line at Spyten-Dyvill(sp?).  Using this path
>would require that trains backup in one direction (not a problem for the
>RTLs and RTGs).

The completion of the Empire Connection resulted in the discontinuance
of Amtrak service to Grand Central, and hence discontinuance of the
shuttle in question.

BTW, in the old NYCRR days there used to be a connection from the
Suyten Duyvil bridge to the NYCRR mainline towards Marble Hill that
would have made such a service possible without backup moves. But that
connection was severed when Metro North changed the layout at Spuyten
Duyvil station. The old track can still be seen in the overgrowth.


Jishnu Mukerji
jis@usl.com
From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: CFV: rec.crafts.metalworking
Date: 17 Nov 92 10:23:34 MST
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY

This is a Call For Votes (CFV) on creation of the unmoderated newsgroup
rec.crafts.metalworking.  The charter is reproduced below.

To vote FOR the creation of this new newsgroup, send mail to
metalyes@corral.uwyo.edu.  To vote AGAINST the creation of this group,
send mail to metalno@corral.uwyo.edu.  Please send votes *only* to one
of these two addresses, otherwise it will not count.  Do not post your
vote, or send it to my personal mailbox.  The content of the e-mail
ballot is not important, just the address it is sent to.

The voting period will last until 23:59:59 MST, 14-DEC-1992.  Votes
*received* after that date cannot be counted.

Charter
-------

Proposed Charter -- REC.CRAFTS.METALWORKING

The USENET newsgroup, rec.crafts.metalworking, is a newsgroup which discusses
various aspects of working with metal, such as (but not limited to):

  machining, as on a lathe, milling machine, grinder, etc.;
  numerical control of such machines;
  welding, whether by gas, arc, mig, tig, thermite, or other methods;
  Metal joining, whether welding, brazing, soldering, riveting,
    screwing, folding, etc.  (this section was added during the discussion)
  casting various metals by various methods;
  hardening/tempering various metals;
  blacksmithing/forging;
  spinning and hammer work;
  sheet metal work;
  jewelry-making;
  purchasing and/or reconditioning metalworking tools and machinery;
  interesting projects;
  books on metal technologies and history;

Example areas of interest:

  knife/sword making;
  automotive repair;
  steam engine (model/scale, though full-sized discussions are welcome!);
  art work, such as bronze castings and sculptures;
  gunsmithing;
  toolmaking, such as for woodworking, further metalworking, etc.;

While the bulk of the discussion will probably be directed towards
small-scale "home" shops, industrial/production discussions are also
quite welcome.
-- 
Jim Kirkpatrick
jimkirk@corral.uwyo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Subject: Re: Air whistles (was Scaring away meese)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:36:55 GMT

In article <92321.143117RMCCU@CUNYVM.BITNET> Robert Chambers <RMCCU@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>Well Metro North from time to time have problems with Deer... like the
>one time we hit one coming home and were delayed a few mins for them
>to pull the carcas from under the train.
>
>The conductor was telling his assistant that the meat would probably be
>good since it was cold and would keep.. Yum.. M2 vennison.
>
>Robert


 Hey, every Tuesday night is 'Keep what you kill night' on the Metro
North.

 =)



    r++-----------,---,-------------.            Benn Coifman 
   /~____________/ ""||      @      |       zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu
  / o-o  (*) (*)  o :  o-o-o   o-o-o      zephyr@robotics.berkeley.edu
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Amtrak List of Trains by # (LOOONG) (fwd)
Date: 17 Nov 92 11:16:29 GMT
Distribution: na

Terry Fry writes:

>Utilizing a single set of codes reduced confusion & obviously made
>programmers much happier.

In the case of Balto., the trains do need some codes of their own.  BWI has
a rail station served by Amtrak, but the principal Balto. station is Penn
station in the city.
-- 
C. Wingate        + "The peace of God, it is no peace,
                  +    but strife closed in the sod.
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:
tove!mangoe       +    the marv'lous peace of God."
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jtbell@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jon Bell)
Subject: Re: Staten Island Rapid Transit
Organization: Presbyterian College, Clinton SC
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 03:45:57 GMT

In article <24028@galaxy.ucr.edu> santafe@watserv.ucr.edu (michael a parisi) writes:
>[...]  Could someone please tell me about SIRT? 

Well, it's been several years since I've had the opportunity to ride the
Staten Island Rapid Transit, but here are some basics.  Perhaps somebody
closer to the scene will provide more details.

The SIRT is of course part of the NYC transit system, and so presumably has
the same fare as the rest of the subway system (whatever that amounts to now,
I've lost track).  There is a single line, running the length of Staten
Island from the ferry terminal in St. George to Tottenville.  It's all
above ground (at grade or elevated).  Service is maybe every 15-20 minutes
during the off-peak daytime hours.  The equipment is relatively modern,
but not quite like other NYC subway cars... I think it's the same stuff
that runs on the electric third-rail commuter lines such as Metro-North.

If you're ever in NYC, an excursion on the SIRT ties in very nicely with
a trip on the Staten Island Ferry!

Jon Bell / Dept. of Physics & Comp. Sci. / Presbyterian College / Clinton SC
From: wbrill@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Warren Brill)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:29:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Dead meat, was Re: Stupid People (Grade crossings)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

In rec.railroad, CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:

> In article <1992Nov12.202042.7163@telebit.com> bjork@telebit.com (Steven Bjork) writes:
> >
> >The Alaska Railroad has problems with moose. The trains plow out
> >a nice place for the critters to walk, thus they congregate there.
> >
> >CTC Board mag claimed 20 or so struck in a single trip is not uncommon.
> >
> I've heard that when Canadian National switched from steam to diesel,
> there was a sharp increase in the number of moose killed by trains.
> It seems that a diesel's air horn, unlike a steam whistle, sounds
> much like the love call of a moose.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^'
*** Maybe that's why there are so many grade crossing accidents...Maybe the
diesel horn sounds like the love call of a big V-8.... :-) :-) ***

> 
> Tom Box
> CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA

 
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o                                          i---i_________________      o
o    Warren T. Brill, a.k.a.          *----|[|]|  #### #### #### |*    o
o    wbrill@hpxxx.fc.hp.com         i_|___/|___|\________________|_i   o
o    wbrill@hpfcso.fc.hp.com       =++()=()=() `========' ()=()=()++=  o
o                                  =================================== o
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Prime Mover Software Development <U93_PTUPACZE@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: GE chugging
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Organization: Indiana University
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:47:03 GMT
X-Vms-To: IN%"rec.railroad@silver.ucs.indiana.edu"

Ah, yes, a favorite topic of mine...

GE's chugging have long been a part of my railroad memories. I grew up on the 
Erie Lackawanna Boonton Line, and their freight U33C/U36C's were fairly 
common. But even better were their U34CH commuter units - their HEP generators 
were run off the prime mover; hence, they were always running at the 
equivalent of Run 6 - so you can imagine the sound as they accelerated from a 
stop! WOW!  Today's Susquehanna's DASH 8-40B's still have that familiar GE 
chug, though I think GE's figured out how to quiet 'em down - you can only 
hear the Suskie's units when they notch out climbing up Sparta Mountain or on 
the grade out of Butler. The spirit is still there.

As for explanations... GE's and Alcos share a common trait: four-cycle 
engines. GM's have a two-cycle engine, which "explodes" its cylinders at a 
high rate of speed. The four-cycle timing of GE's and Alcos allows a short 
pause, and a deadening of sound temporarily before the next "explosion." I 
think this allows the sound to reverbrate better, and makes the next 
"explosion" seem more loud; hence, the "stalk-chopper" sound.

Another neat sound I enjoy are turbocharged EMD's - especially the 50/60 
series. Their turbochargers are slightly more melodic, but they all have that 
neat high-pitched humming...

    - Paul Tupaczewski
      Stevens Tech
      Hoboken, NJ
      u93_ptupacze@vaxa.stevens-tech.edu

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jcarnold@athena.mit.edu (John C Arnold)
Subject: Why do GE's "Chug"?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:14:50 GMT

	Does anyone have any thoughts on the exhaust note of GE's 
engines? They seem to have a distinct "chugging" sound, particularly
at low speed. The problem I have is that the chugs seem to be too 
infrequent, coming on the order of once (maybe several times) per
second, whereas the exhaust pulses from a four cycle V-16 at
a few hundred RPM (idle) should come 30-50 times per second. I have
also noticed that both the U18's and C424's in our area have 
a more rapid exhaust note than the big boats.
From: krauss@Oswego.EDU (John E.Krauss)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: AMTRAK SOLD BAD PARTS
Date: 19 Nov 92 03:13:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: oswego.1992Nov19.031355.19538
Reply-To: krauss@oswego.Oswego.EDU (John E.Krauss)
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY

According to a report in the Oswego Palladium Times 11/18/92, Fulton Metal
Mechanics sold bad parts to Amtrak during Summer 1992. The FRA and Amtrak
are investigating the charge which was made in a letter to the FRA on 11/3
by an employee of the company.

The employee Robert Bowers claims that the owner knowingly shipped bad
Reservoir Tanks, Swing Hanger Nuts and Axle guide to Amtrak in LA & CHI.
Amtrak's spokesperson Cliff Black, the parts were discovered before they
were put on trains. The lack of acceptable parts is delaying scheduled
maintenance and has caused several layoffs.

Bowers claims similar parts were sent to NY Air Brake and Westinghouse
Brake. He also said faulty paint and parts were sent as part of a
subcontract for subway cars. The company has closed because these
contracts were cancelled. 

Following the last accident on the COLONIAL in Virginia, workers in the
plant were worried that their parts had caused the accident. The FRA
reported a vandalized turnout as the cause.

No offical comment available from the FRA. A consulting engineer for
Amtrak explained that failure of the swing hanger nut would be the same as
a blowout at 90 mph.

The parts were not heat treated which improves flexibility and prevents
fatigue failure. He said that his company had cancelled the contact for
parts but not before some parts reached Amtrak. He told the Paladium Times
that Amtrak has cleaned house in its quality control dept. 

More as the story develops since the Bowers has sued his employer over his
dismissal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"He who dies with the most trains Wins!"
From: 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Alcos Chugging (was Alcos Stalling)
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:16:21 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1egdrsINNqp8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema) writes:
> 
> In a previous article, billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) says:
>>In article <1ea25lINNo7e@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema) writes:
>>>In a previous article, U93_PTUPACZE@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU (Prime Mover Software Development) says:
> 
>>>  They share more than that...GE's FDL-16 has the same bore, stroke, and RPM
>>>as the Alco 251.  I made some recordings of GBW C424's last summer, and 
>>>was surprised at how similar they sounded to the B23-7's I got on the ATSF.

Yea, the Alco 251B is particularly loud. The other day, I was watching a CP
Rail runthrough to Chicago over CSX, and it had an MLW C424 and an MLW RS18
and boy was that RS18 chugging along, a lot louder than that C424, of course
the RS18 is 6-8 years older, but it was rebuilt for yard use sometime in
the 80's. The 424 might have been rebuilt too, I'm not sure.
But hearing both of them together is quite neat.
I also heard an all MLW consist one night pulling a heavy train up about a
1% grade. It had 3 M636's on it, probably the best train I've ever heard!
Now where's that tape recorder when you need it ;^)

Fred
From: santafe@watserv.ucr.edu (michael a parisi)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Staten Island Rapid Transit
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:41:12 GMT



I've never seen a picture of their trains or seen an SIRT timetable (or even a
magazine article about SIRT for that matter).  Could someone please tell me  
about SIRT? (E.g.-what are their trains and stations like, fares, schedules,
route(s), etc.)
                                  Thanks
From: jane_b1@verifone.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: London to Scotland anyone?
Date: 23 Nov 92 05:57:19 -1000
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI

Hi Folks,

Can anyone out there help me with the train schedules and types that travel
from London to Scotland? I am planning a trip for my parents and I for next
summer and my father is a train enthusiast. Actually, my mother and I love to
ride them too! We want to take a train from London to Glasgow and return about
a week later the same way. Any advice on the train system will be *greatly*
appreciated! You can post to this group or e_mail me personally.

Jane B.