HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: toby@milton.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Subject: Re: Hunting deer with 223?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: 9 Sep 92 08:02:37 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu
Keywords: 223 Deer

In article <1992Sep8.074342.29161@doug.cae.wisc.edu> jwforce@anagld.analytics.com (James W. Force) writes:
>
>	Has anyone had any experiences hunting white tail deer
>with a 223 round?

This should get the net stirred up again.  I've shot mule deer with
a .223.  None made it a body length beyond where it was hit.  None
was over 150 yards away, and all but one were shot in the brain
using a varmint rifle and bipod from the prone position.  If you're
willing to pick your shots carefully, and have an accurate rifle and
a good rest, a .223 is perfectly adequate for deer.  If you might
need to take a quick shot, or shoot at long range, or require
significant penetration to get to the vitals, a .223 would be
a poor choice when compared with more powerful (traditional)
deer loads.

However, note that a .223 has about the same muzzle energy as
a .44 Magnum handgun, and greater energy downrange.  There are
very few (or no) states where a .44 is illegal for deer (if
handguns are permitted at all), but many states forbid using
a .22 centerfire.  A big .22 CF, like a Swift, has more energy
at 150 yards than a .44 Mag has at the muzzle, and more than
500ft-lbs. remaining at 500 yards (500ft-lbs. at *100* yards
is a common minimum for handgun hunting).  A few states, like
Montana and Oregon (at least) permit any centerfire for deer
as long as it seems "appropriate" to the hunter.  I know well
a fellow who poached deer to feed his family while he was in
college.  He used a 22 rimfire, never took a shot at over 35
yards, and always aimed for the brain.  He never lost a deer,
and only had to use his knife to kill one he decked with
a CB cap.  I'm sure I'll now be flamed for advocating deer hunting
with CB caps (though I don't).  I do feel that the choice of caliber
should be left to the hunter's judgement.  Some people have
poor judgement, I agree.  Would the number of cripples go up if
.22 CFs were legal everywhere for deer?  Maybe.  Maybe not. Would
they go down if everyone had to use a .375H&H?  Maybe.  Maybe not.

>I know of 65 (+/-) gr. SP and HP bullets
>available on the market.  If so, which bullet type (HP/SP) 
>would be the better choice.

I've used a Sierra Blitz (head shot), but the penetration is minimal
with this varmint bullet.  The one deer I shot in the body with
Blitzes dropped at the second shot.  It was a small deer, and 
neither bullet even had to break a rib, but the penetration was
less than 4 inches at 100 yards.  If you're going to use a .223
on deer, call the bullet manufacturers and ask for a recommendation.
I bet some, like Nosler, will tell you that no .22 is good
enough for deer (even though they're based in Oregon).  

>Should this calibar not even be
>considered for hunting small deer??  All comments appreciated.

I doubt you'll appreciate *all* the comments you'll receive :)

Toby Bradshaw




Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: kbrown@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (J. Keith Brown)
Subject: Re: Where's the birds?
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: 9 Sep 92 08:01:23 CDT
Summary: Lots of Birds in NC
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Sep8.074236.28926@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, pfeiffer@NMSU.Edu () writes:
> Well, dove season opened Tuesday... I got out yesterday, and so far it
> looks like they needn't have bothered with a season this year... it


Sorry that you didn't find any doves on your hunt.  Our season (NC)
opened on Saturday and there were PLENTY of birds for everyone.  I was
on a pretty big hunt (220 people) covering a lot of acres of corn, soybeans,
millet, and sunflowers.  Believe it or not, we really didn't have enough
people to cover all the fields.  The doves were flying everywhere and
a lot of shells were spent.  I had no trouble limiting out (12) and my
son was able to bag 9 on this, his second dove hunt.  

The only problem we had was finding some of the birds that fell in the
corn fields since the fields have not yet been cut (I lost my dog 
recently so was dependent on finding by sight).

Anyway....there are lots of doves in NC....I'll be back out next 
weekend.

Oh yes.....the doves we bagged....they were delicious!!

Keith Brown




Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: toby@milton.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Subject: Re: Hunting Deer with .223?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: 14 Sep 92 07:53:06 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

>Keith Boyd
>I certainly did not intend to imply that the .223 would not kill. 
>Any centerfire caliber rifle will kill a deer in the hands of a 
>competent marksperson. Rimfires will also. I have said this before 
>but would like to repeat it: You owe it to the game you pursue to
>use the proper weapons, the proper ammo, and of course, only 
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^      ^^^^^^^^^^^

>take shots that you feel comfortable/confident with. 

It should be up to the hunter to decide what's proper, and under
what circumstances.
 
>Likewise, I was surprised and dismayed after looking through my 
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>SC Wildlife and Marine Resources handbook that apparently there
>is no minimum rifle caliber required to deer hunt in SC. I would
>like to see the .25 caliber minimum in place here, also.

I guess the .240 Weatherby, firing a 100gr Nosler Partition at
3200-3300fps (don't have my loading manual handy), is less capable
than a 7TCU (.223 necked up and blown out). :) for the sarcasm
challenged.

I bet the .243 and 6MM lovers in SC would not appreciate a .25
cal lower limit for deer.  Why .25?  Why not .458?  You must
realize that all such limits are arbitrary, and it's the
hunter that makes the difference, not the weapon.

Toby Bradshaw
Department of Biochemistry and College of Forest Resources
University of Washington, Seattle
toby@u.washington.edu

"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of
a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed."  Do you conclude from this that only voters
may own books?




Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: doug@premise.Prime.COM (Doug Fosdick)
Subject: Oleoresin Capucin
Date: 9 Sep 92 08:01:13 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


 Shawn Boyd writes:

 >Thanks.  I am interested in this stuff as a hunting aid.  I hunt
 >exclusively with a bow, and have an invitation to go to New Mexico for
 >a black bear hunt this season or next...

 >I hear the stuff really works good, but I've also gotten E-mail
 >advising me not to give up a firearm backup.

FWIW, this is little more than here say, I read it on the net. But a
poster said that the 10% capucin (sp) spray is/was used by the U.S.
Park Service to protect rangers working in the field against bears in
the National Parks.  The poster went on to say that a relative of his
worked for the Park service and that all (most?) of the rangers who
had used the spray against bears (grizzlies I believe) were
dissatisfied with the sprays effectiveness.
From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: NOTICE:"Bigfoot/Sasquatch" Sightings Request
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:51:54 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


   Our research group is currently investigating reports and sightings of the
animal known as "Bigfoot" or "Sasquatch". If you or somebody you know has had
such a sighting, or come across what may be evidence supporting the existance
of such an animal, please get in contact with us in one of the following
formats:
 
o Leave a private message in electronic mail.
o Call Thomas Hill at 216-362-6529.
o Or write:
 
  Thomas E. Hill
  16124 Richard Dr.
  Brook Park, OH 44142
 
 Contact with us can be totally anonymous if you wish. We are especially
interested in Ohio sightings but are by no means limited to investigations in
that state. Please, serious responses only.
-- 
"A large creature about 7 1/2 to 8 foot tall. It was greyish black in color,
and as it went away from me I seen the backside of it walking as a man would
walk on it's hind legs."- Former Sheriff Oliver Potter, Vancouver, Washington
The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga!
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: redelen@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (EDELEN RANDY G )
Subject: Hunting in Colorado
Date: 14 Sep 92 07:52:21 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


	Here is some info on game from colorado

>from the 1992 small game brochure

mourning doves
band-tailed pigeon
sora and virginia rail
common snipe
chukar partridge
blue grouse
mountain sharp-tailed grouse 
sage grouse
white-tailed ptarmigan
pheasant
northern, gambel's and scaled quail
sandhill crane
common crow
woodcock
gallinule
european starling
english sparrows
wild turkey

I am not sure of the definition of upland game our brochure is divided into
migratory birds and waterfowl.  Teal is in with the migratory game birds
but is a duck and requires a duck stamp. Thats it for the birds anyone for
mammals 8*) !^) %>)

randy



Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter)
Subject: Re: Hunting deer with 223?
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: 9 Sep 92 08:02:47 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu
Keywords: 223 Deer

In article <1992Sep8.074342.29161@doug.cae.wisc.edu>,
jwforce@anagld.analytics.com (James W. Force) writes:
> 	Has anyone had any experiences hunting white tail deer
> with a 223 round?  I know of 65 (+/-) gr. SP and HP bullets
> available on the market.  If so, which bullet type (HP/SP) 
> would be the better choice.  Should this calibar not even be
> considered for hunting small deer??  All comments appreciated.

Is it legal to hunt deer with a .223 in WI?  I think most states
have prohibited use of anything smaller than something like .25 
(i.e. .243/6mm on up are OK).  Some also require a minumum muzzle
energy.  I think the .223 will fall short on both accounts.  Check
your local regulations first... (I personally think the .223 is
far too light for deer; Not that the it won't kill them, but won't
kill them quickly).

-- 
Charles Scripter   *   cescript@phy.mtu.edu
Dept of Physics, Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI 49931
-------------------------------------------------------------------
With your one remaining eye, please do NOT look back into the laser
From: unknown
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: damage permit hunt
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:53:48 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Well I was finally able to get back to Cincy labor day weekend and go
bowhunting at the orchard. However this time things didn't turn out
quite as well. I can sum it up as slooow. But then again, this is
coming on the heels of the some of the fastest action I've ever had.
Well the weather was great and it was extremely enjoyable, and that's
all that counts IMHO. I was able to get out for three mornings, and
one evening. I saw a grand total of 0 deer while in treestands. I
guess I got them all :-) However the farmer has seen quite a few. I
did jump a small ~4 ptr still in velvet while still hunting. I did
quite a bit of that, as I spent more time scouting than actually
hunting. I found several small rubs, indicating that the deer are
starting to come out of velvet. I also found a really odd shed from
last year. It has 4 pts, but is probably off of a 1 1/2 yr old. It
grew almost straight up, but with a double brow tine and another
point. I wonder what he looks like this year.

    Well Ohio's squirrel hadn't opened yet(it opened the 10th) and
there were squirrels everywhere. They were hitting the buckeyes really
hard, but had just about finished them off. I also saw them starting
on acorns and walnuts. Mon morning I was in a walnut tree, and I was
practically run over by 4 or 5 squirrels that mostly ignored me. The
area I was in has about 95% greys and 5 % fox squirrels.

    On another note, It has been widely reported that a buck taken
last year by a guy named Koberstein (sp?) in Alberta, will beat the
Jordan buck as the new world record. His buck was scored as typical
9X8 frame with 3 nontypical points, and a 17 1/2" spread. It was
scored at 207 ?/8 versus the Jordan buck's 206 3(?)/8. It doesn't
really look all that typical, and is nowhere near as impressive as the
Jordan buck IMHO. However the latest issue of Deer and Deer Hunting,
is saying that the inside scoop is that it will not beat the Jordan
buck when panel scored in '95. In fact B&C is requesting that it be
rescored by a panel of Alberta scorers before then, noting some
"discrepancies" between the photos and the score sheet.

   Well it's starting to get cooler and definetly more pleasant. You
can almost feel fall in the air. It's getting closer.
						Matt Smith
	22 days till bow season, -1 till squirrel, and ~600 till graduation!
From: mailrus!gatech!col.hp.com!kd4nc.ampr.org!hp-col!fleck@uunet.UU.NET (Dave Fleck)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Upland Bird Hunting in CO?
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:42:07 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Mike,

There isn't a whole lot of upland  game  hunting  here....  There is a
strong grouse  population, but that is mainly west of the  Continental
divide.  That would  include  Blue  Grouse and Sage.  The  seasons for
those  birds  just  opened.  As far  as  pheasant,  I have  yet to see
anything on good populations of birds.  They would definetly be in the
eastern  sections  of CO.  near the  Kansas  border.  When it comes to
other  birds like ducks and geese we have 2 flyways and a fair  amount
of  access.  You can't beat the Big game  hunting  in very many  other
places!

Dave
                                                                         |
                                                                      --(*)--
                                                        ^                |
     /\         /\     /\
    /{}\       //\\   //\\     ^ /\                                  ___/\
   /{||}\     //{}\\ //{}\\     /~~\/\___ ^                      ^  /  \  \
  //{||}\\   //{||}\\/{||}\\   /         \            \/           /   /   \
 ///{||}\\\ ///{||}\\\{||}\\\ /   ()_=__  \        ___{}          /    \    \
////{||}\\\////{||}\\\\||    /    []/      \      /\ /\          /      \
....||.........||..o..||.....o.  /\                                

                         "I feel a fever coming on..... "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Fleck                              Hewlett-Packard Co.  Colorado Springs
Internet: fleck@cs.itc.hp.com           Information Technology Center
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter)
Subject: Re: Another: Need first rifle recommendation
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: 8 Sep 92 07:43:59 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Sep2.065646.28556@doug.cae.wisc.edu>,
chris@lightnin.columbiasc.NCR.COM () writes:

> In article <1992Sep1.061945.26406@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
> keith@clodii.columbiasc.NCR.COM (Keith Boyd) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug31.094543.12274@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
> >mja@philabs.philips.com (Michael Amato) writes:
> >>
> >[Stuff deleted]
> >
> >>30-30 lever actions seem to be pretty popular as a good short range rifle
> >>for most of the woods around here, but I was thinking more about a 30-06 
> >>                ^^^^^
> >Hey Michael, I will extend the same advice to you as I did to Matt
> >Harrington. I recommend the .270 winchester.
> >
> > stuff deleted
> >
> >The .270
> >is good for 200-300yd shots so why not just start out with the .270??

I always thought 200 yards was considered "short" if you were out
West.  ;-)  I think the .270 is a reasonable cartridge, and will
most likely be adequate as far out as you can hit your target
(My dad shot a mule deer at ~800+ yards with a .270).  If you're
shooting (and hitting) much further than that, you better get some
advice from some long-range shooters... ;-)

>      The original poster made references to hunting in the "woods",
> and the follow-up article made reference to long shots (200-300yds).

I think most of the major cartridges are fine for this range (not
the 30-30).  Look at .243/6mm, .257 Roberts (these are rare, and
might be difficult to find ammo for), .270/7mm, .308, 30-06 etc.
If you don't like rifles that kick, check out the lighter
.243/6mm/.257 sizes, if it doesn't bother you, pick any of the above.

> I have hunted in a lot of different areas---woods and fields
> included---and chose my shots accordingly.  I use a 30-06 because of
> its' versatility: 180gr in areas with undergrowth and folliage and 55
> gr at 150+ yds.

I also use a 30-06.  Though I wouldn't be afraid to use any of the
calibers I listed above.  Old military .308, and sometimes 30-06, 
rifles can be found cheap.  Also, both cartridges are extremely
common (as many of the old military calibers tend to be).

Keep in mind that many people think the 30-06 kicks to hard.  If you
flinch, and miss your target, all the power in the world won't help you.
Pick a rifle that you'll be able to shoot, and don't be afraid to
practice with it.

-- 
Charles Scripter   *   cescript@phy.mtu.edu
Dept of Physics, Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI 49931
-------------------------------------------------------------------
With your one remaining eye, please do NOT look back into the laser


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: keith@clodii.columbiasc.NCR.COM (Keith Boyd)
Subject: Re: Hunting deer with 223?
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC
Date: 9 Sep 92 08:02:26 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu
Keywords: 223 Deer

In article <1992Sep8.074342.29161@doug.cae.wisc.edu> jwforce@anagld.analytics.com (James W. Force) writes:
>
>	Has anyone had any experiences hunting white tail deer
>with a 223 round?  I know of 65 (+/-) gr. SP and HP bullets
>available on the market.  If so, which bullet type (HP/SP) 
>would be the better choice.  Should this calibar not even be
>considered for hunting small deer??  All comments appreciated.

No actual experience hunting with it myself but I recall once 
seeing a guy in the woods with an AR-15 evil assault weapon .223
type gun with a 30 round clip stuck in it. I still cringe at the
thought of it. My .270 bolt action is all I need.  Seriously, I
think most netters will advise against using this caliber to hunt
deer with as it is marginal in knockdown power. Some may even say
it was designed more to just injure rather than kill quickly
since it is a military caliber. I suggest you check your state and
local regs. to make sure it is legal first. Some states have laws
regarding minimum caliber such as Tenn. They require weapons of
at least 25 caliber or larger for hunting deer. 
           
Keith


-- 
| Keith M. Boyd  (NCR MCPD Cola.) | Nothing could be finer than huntin' and  |
| 3325 Platt Springs Rd.          |    and fishin' in South Carolina! -Me-   | 
| West Cola., S.C. 29170 |   GO BRAVES!!     | keith.boyd@columbiasc.NCR.COM |
| Vp: 803-791-6419 or 6455    | From uunet: uunet!ncrcom!ncrcae!clodii!keith | 


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Subject: handgun hunting regs for Tennessee: need info
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:06:14 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

I am in need of the regulations for hunting deer in Tennessee with a
handgun. Some friends and I were picked for a quota hunt in the Trace
area after the first of the year. And we are up for two more in the
Land Between the Lakes area. The buck I took there last year was at
25 yards and all of the timber that we hunted through looked like
fifty to seventy-five yard shots at most. I figured that I would try
it with a handgun this year.

If anyone out there knows what the rules are I would appreciate hearing
>from you.


geoff kotzar          gmk@falstaff.mae.cwru.edu
From: HUDSON%EIVAX@UALR.EDU (Keith Hudson)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Remington 1100 Value
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:52:55 GMT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Jeff Crowder wrote:
>...the safety fails to reset on reload... .

I'm not sure at all what you mean about this Jeff.  I have used
several Rem 1100 shotguns, and reloading has nothing to do with the
safety on this model.  I remember a cross-bolt that blocks the
trigger.  Did you mean something else???

Keith
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Subject: Re: Hunting deer with 223?
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:06:43 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Sep9.080227.995@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, you write:
>In article <1992Sep8.074342.29161@doug.cae.wisc.edu> jwforce@anagld.analytics.com (James W. Force) writes:
>>
>>	Has anyone had any experiences hunting white tail deer
>>with a 223 round?  I know of 65 (+/-) gr. SP and HP bullets
>>available on the market.  If so, which bullet type (HP/SP) 
>>would be the better choice.  Should this calibar not even be
>>considered for hunting small deer??  All comments appreciated.
>
>No actual experience hunting with it myself but I recall once 
>seeing a guy in the woods with an AR-15 evil assault weapon .223
>type gun with a 30 round clip stuck in it. I still cringe at the
>thought of it. My .270 bolt action is all I need.  Seriously, I

	Yeah, way to go. 'evil assault weapon'? Hmm been reading
	that HCI literature as bed time reading?

>think most netters will advise against using this caliber to hunt
>deer with as it is marginal in knockdown power.

	I would say that a 223 is marginal at best, but it's not
	because of the weapon it is fired from.

> Some may even say
>it was designed more to just injure rather than kill quickly
>since it is a military caliber. 

	I see. So I guess 308 or 30-06 will just injure rather
	than kill since they both are military calibers?
	If anyone hunts any big game with full metal jacket ammo
	then they are irresponsible, and unsportsmanlike, regardless
	of the caliber of the round (or the appearance of the gun
	it's fired from!) If I had to I'd hunt deer with a .223 semi
	auto loaded with the heavyist soft point I could find. It's
	not my primary choice, and never will be, but it will do the
	job in the hands of a _carefull_ hunter.

>I suggest you check your state and
>local regs. to make sure it is legal first. Some states have laws
>regarding minimum caliber such as Tenn. They require weapons of
>at least 25 caliber or larger for hunting deer.

 I was very surprized to find out that Wisconsin allows 22 cal
centerfires for deer.
 
>           
>Keith
>
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* for sale: Springfield Armory Factory Comp, 38 Super, +3 mags. All new
* in box (never fired at all).  $650 or best offer over $600 as of Sep 30.
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Apology
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:46:57 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Rialto

Greetings to all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.  T. Archer quotes a posting of
mine, and comments,

>Please don't adopt a patronizing tone.

I'm sorry that my tone upset you.  It was not intended as patronizing.  As I
reread the post, it sounds (to me) a bit stiff in places; I think the effect
came because I was trying very hard not to say anything that could be taken
as hot, and to be a direct and substantive as I could.  I think this did 
result in some unnaturalness.  It still doesn't sound patronizing _to me_,
but then, I wrote it, and I will naturally hear my own tones when reading.

As to the request for the future: I will try not to.  Patronizing, all else
aside, only angers people, and that's a stupid thing to do on purpose.  On
the other hand, I didn't do it on purpose that time, and I am not sure what
to change, so I can't promise success.

-- Angharad/Terry
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca