HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wa3wbu!john@uunet.UU.NET (John Gayman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Major 9
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:07:20 GMT
Organization: @ WA3WBU, Marysville, PA


In article <9301061530.aa28534@claudius.pica.army.mil>, erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
# 
# I also note references to ".38 Stupid" on this thread, which seem to
# imply that the .38 Super is not an ideal round for use in high-capacity
# semi-autos. Considering that it's been around since before most if not
# all IPSC shooters were born, is that a surprise?
# 
# 

   There also seems to be a lot of thoughts that the .38 Super is not the
ideal defensive round. This is probably due to the limp loads which some
of the factories are making these days. I see in the most recent "Handguns"
magazine that Cor-Bon now makes two .38 Super loads:

 38 Super +P  115gr JHP at 1450 FPS yielding 537 Ft-Lbs of energy.
 38 Super     124gr XTP at 1350 FPS yielding 502 Ft-Lbs of energy.

   Next time the balloon goes up make sure your new optically-sighted,
20-round .38 Super space-gun is equipted with a couple magazines full
of these. :-)


						John


-- 
John Gayman, WA3WBU 
UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hi-Power mag safety
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:16:04 GMT
Organization: Sun

In article <1993Jan4.172813.19993@cbnews.cb.att.com> webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods) writes:
#In article <1992Dec28.194001.17240@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
##In article <9212240001.AA09254@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca> keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca
##(Keith de Solla) writes:
###I have a new Hi-Power that I intend to use for IPSC and I was 
###thinking about disconnecting the annoying magazine safety. 
#
#The "browning problem" for action shooting is that the magazines
#don't fall out at the push of a button and must be pulled out as
#the button is held down.  That can be remedied by a good smith
#
#Posting concerns IPSC gun not carry gun.  A carry gun should be "stock".

It's a bit late for Keith, but for anyone else who might be thinking
of getting into IPSC and wants to shoot a Browning, their BDM has no
magazine safety, and the magazine jump right out when you press the
button.

Otherwise, it shoots a lot like a Hi-Power.






--
-------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give away      |
| to everybody else and have none left for yourself.  |
|------------------------ Dieter the car salesman-----|
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Penetrating Brick wall (was: Self Protect Handgun vs. Shotgun.)
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:31:12 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

Just for curiousity, is there a book or has anyone done an article on
various calibers' penetration on "common" items (walls, cars, iceboxes,
freezers, etc.)?

I remember reading an article when the AR-15 came out that claimed the
factory rep used 3 - 4 20 round magazines to make a hole in a
"cinderblock" wall that he could walk through.  I don't remember how tall
he was ;-{).
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: wa3wbu!john@uunet.UU.NET (John Gayman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: No Dillon Press Now
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:07:17 GMT
Organization: @ WA3WBU, Marysville, PA


In article <m0n9heA-0001exC@slmed.uucp>, scott@pcc9.spacelabs.com (Scott West) writes:
# After waiting for the Christmas rush to subside I called DILLON today to place
# 
# Well, DILLON is no longer in the business of the no interest payment program.  Thats the program
# where they would charge your VISA account over 5 months, it was history as of the 1st of the year. 
# A fellow shooter here a work used the program and it worked great,  wonder what happened?


   Wow,  that's really a bummer!  I used that plan to purchase both my
 RL-1050's.  I probably wouldn't have bought them otherwise at the time.
 I'm sure Dillon will loose some business over that. Perhaps they will
 re-implement it. Anyone contact them to get the straight scoop ?


						John




-- 
John Gayman, WA3WBU 
UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: guns vs. K9s
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:31 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1993Jan4.130458.7348@email.tuwien.ac.at>, by holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)):
# You are confronted with a very  unfriendly  and  rather  big  dog
# (growling,  foam  at  the mouth, suspected rabies) in your garden
# (so carry laws are not an issue).  What gun/ammo would  you  like
# to have with you?
# 

It would depend a lot on local/city ordnances.

# Would you deem a rifle necessary?  IMHO even big dogs  are  small
# enough to allow a quick killing by using a handgun.
# 

An Irish Wolfhound (~200 lbs.) might require some fairly heavy artillery ;-{).

# My (rather un-educated) guess is .357 Magnum 125grs SJHP in a  6"
# revolver.    Some might consider that a bit over-powered, but I'd
# rather err on the safe side.
# 

I think a 9mm would do well on your "average" sized (80 lbs?) dog.  Your
choice sounds good to me.  At home on the farm, we would have used a .22
rifle or 12 ga. shotgun (or whatever was available ;-{) ).

# What about shotguns?  Would you think a 12ga #4  or  #0  buckshot
# load  is  too  strong?  We don't want to litter the premises with
# body parts.
# 

I think I would use _at least_ #4 buck.  If I thought I could be sure of
hitting the dog, or, at least a solid backstop, I think I would like to go
with 00 buck.

Around here, in town, I would try to get inside and call the animal
control people/police and hope they could deal with it.
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: emgg1058@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Air pistols
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:21:42 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Can someone email me the names and address of mail order 
companies that sell CO2 pistols.

Thanks

matt.
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black-powder, Pyrodex  or ?
Date: 11 Jan 93 01:05:32 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In article <1993Jan4.211040.29608@afit.af.mil> lriggins@afit.af.mil (L. Maurice Riggins) writes:
#In article <1993Jan2.192534.27149@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
##I made one mistake in buying my Ruger "Old Army" cap & ball revolver:
##I got blue steel rather  than stainless. Now every time I take it out
##it has to be cleaned scrupulously or severe rusting will be my reward.
#
#Stainless guns will corrode just about as easily as blued when you're
#shooting blackpowder or Pyrodex... stainless steel is no substitute
#for cleaning and sometimes even cleaning isn't enough. The well-cared for 
#Smith and Wesson Model 66's (stainless) used by the Florida Marine Patrol 
#I saw were pitted beyond belief after a short time of use.  You've started
#a hobby that requires _immediate_ and thorough clean-up after use.  The
#upside is that hot soapy water does the job better than anything else.

I wasn't quite clear about this. The supposed advantage of stainless is
that it is easier to clean by just removing the grips and washing in
hot, soapy water. I would not want to do this with blue steel.
-- 
Donald R. Newcomb                * Oh please, Mr. Clinton, won't
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * you please just tax that other
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * guy and send his money to me?
From: zwbm07@hou.amoco.com (Walter Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: good, clean powder for reloading .38 spl?
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:34:29 GMT
Organization: Amoco Corporation


I'm new to reloading. I just got my Dillon Square Deal B and set it up. An NRA
instructor I know suggested I use Bullseye powder for both my 9mm loads and my
.38 Spl. loads. Well, I loaded up some .38 spl rounds and went out to see how 
they did. The powder left a LOT of residue on the cylinders (of my .357 and .38 spl)
and on my hands. Is there a cleaner powder out there? 

thanks,


---
TTYL & TANSTAAFL ---------------- Walter Moore 
      Internet: wbmoore@hou.amoco.com

...SCUBA divers do it with depth...blub...blub...blub...
From: unislc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (James Warren)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Cleaning freq. of a muzzle loader in the old days
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:30:40 GMT
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC

#From article <01GT9ZDQRK6AEWWAW9@UMAECS>, by jhwelch@ecs.umass.edu:
# I've been following the black powder discussion with some interest.
# We have an old civil war era muzzle loader as a decorative piece
# but I was thinking of having it checked out by a gun shop for
# actual use.
# 
# Previous postings have mentioned the need to clean a muzzle loader
# every 10-20 shots and/or after a shooting session.  
# 
# As sort of a historical question, I can't imagine a civil war soldier
# doing any kind of cleaning until the end of a battle at the earliest --
# and that's assuming cleaning supplies were handy.  My question is,
# how did they keep their rifle operational all day long?

In the "old days" they did not use petroleum based lubricants.  It is
this oil based stuff that causes the black powder fouling to build up so
fast.  If you use the "new" non-petroleum lubs, you will be able to shoot
many shots between cleanings.  (The natural lube must condition the
barrel for a while before you get the most benefit.  Any use of oil will
destroy your efforts and require a good cleaning and start the
conditioning process all over again.)
From: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: accuracy of .40s&w vs. 9mm
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:09:27 GMT


# I saw an article and thought "whatta stupid gun!"  The promotion I saw
# was in the Nov 92 Hand Gunning.  The thing weighs 43 oz empty: 4 oz
# more than a 1911A1, & 20 oz more than a Glock.  Not too impressive for
# something designed to be a "compact".  For some reason, the vels
# seemed pretty low also, maybe the gas delayed blowback?  Either that
# or the "factory vel ratings" for .40 are unrealistically high:

I have seen an explanation for this added weight, which, IMHO, makes a
lot of sense. .40S&W ammo are extremely fast to burn. This is why the
slide and the barrel start to recoil even before the firing pin has
gone back to its original position. This explains the vertical marks
on the primer of the delayed blowbacks .40. This also explains their
lack of accuracy: the barrel has significantly moved, even before the
bullet has gone out.

I guess that there is only two easy ways to cure this.  Either you make
the slide much heavier, to slow its motion down, or you use a much stronger
recoil spring. Of course you can use a balance of both. It appears that
this is what HK did. The result is a very heavy and not so compact gun,
but it is also extremely accurate, very stable during the fire and the
recoil of the slide is mauch smaller than the ones of other mechanisms.
If you can live with this added weight, these advantages are, IMHO, worth
the problems they create.

# 	The looks are not too keen either: It kind of reminds me of a
# fancy version of those cast zinc Stallard Arms blowback .40s.  For
# 1200 bucks you'd expect HK to sharpen it up a little.

Here, I entirely disagree. The HK is one of the best made pistol, and I
appreiate a lot its look.

Emmanuel Baechler.                        | Tel.: ++41-21-693-2732
Laboratoire d'Intelligence Artificielle   | e-mail: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch
Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne  |     or: baechler@liasun6.epfl.ch
MA-Ecublens                               | Standard Disclaimer
CH-1015 Lausanne	Switzerland

Ban the bomb. Save the world for conventional warfare.
From: mcaldwel@netcom.com (Michael Caldwell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Nationwide Sports Distributors
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:14:51 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1993Jan12.152647.19325@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch (Peter John Kunz) writes:
#In article <9301082352.AA06835@rutgers.edu> wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf) writes:
##In article <9301081913.aa17060@s.s.ms.uky.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
###I have not sealt with them.
###But as far as great service, I can reccomend:
###
###Sports South
###Accu Sports
#
#who?
#
##I didn't catch the original on Nationwide Sports. They are the
##Distributing arm of a large East-coast gun dealer chain called
##Edelman's. Both Edelman's and NSD are notorious for bait and
##switch, lousy service, interminable delays and rude sales
##agents. I'd stay away from them.
#
#i dealt with them until they put a $3.5k limit on export orders. seems things at nsd started changing around spring '92. is that when your problems started?
#
#
#cu
#-pete
#
#
#
#-- 
#Peter J. Kunz	Vogesenstr. 60	4106 Therwil	Switzerland
#petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch	pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
#
#

I have dealt with Nationwide Sports in Sparks, NV.  I called their 1-800
number, got a very helpful sales person, placed my order, they said I would
get it in a week, and three days later UPS was knocking at my door.  The
only other dealer I have dealt with is Jerry's Sport Center and I find their
salespeople very rude and unwilling to help or answer any questions.  No big
loss because Nationwide Sports has better prices.

Michael
From: callison@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Federal Firearms License ?
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:31:14 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1993Jan9.143305.3132@cbnews.cb.att.com> lvc@cbvox1.att.com writes:
#In article <1993Jan8.155911.5070@mcs.kent.edu>
#	sscott@mcs.kent.edu (Stephen Scott) writes:
#Contact the BATF Licensing Office 1-800-366-5423 and ask for an
#FFL dealer application.  It currently costs $30 and is good for 3
#years.  

Or call your local BATF office. They (might) know the local laws better.

#This varies by state and sometimes locality.  Federal law requires
#you go thru an FBI background check, provide two sets of finger
#prints, two passport size photos, pay a $200 transfer tax, and sing
#the national anthem backwards.  

Really? I was told you had to sing the national anthem backwards while
hopping on one leg and patting your head while rubbing your stomach. 
Must be those pesky local laws again. ;-)

##Will this license transfer to any location within the US should I move?
#
#You have to notify BATF where you are moving so they can keep track
#of the weapon.  If the state and city law you are moving to allow
#machine gun ownership by civilians then the move shouldn't be a problem.

When I called the BATF, they said that an FFL is not transferrable, even
within a city; i.e., it's tied to an address. They said that if you
changed addresses on your Place of Business(tm), you had to get a new
license.
Of course, they may not be as strict on NFA licenses/permits. ;-)

#Just kidding about the national anthem ...

You were? ;-)

				James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	"God didn't make men and women equal. Colonel Colt did."
			--Maggie Zombro, "Reasonable Doubts"
From: brian@pdx.csd.mot.com (Brian Vandewettering)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 7x30 Waters loads?
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:34 GMT
Organization: Motorola CSD, Beaverton, OR


In article <C0G5En.Lqn@fc.hp.com> scot@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Scot Heath) writes:
#Anybody out there have any pet loads for the TC in 16" 7x30 Waters?  Any
#pointers to a good source of infor for this cartridge?

Both Nosler and Sierra's handgun reloading manuals have 7x30 loads 
specifically made for the Contender.  Since I use mine for Silhouette
shooting, my pet load may not be useful to you, but here it is anyway.

I use a 150 grain Sierra boattail spitzer with Winchester regular primers
new Winchester 30-30 brass (fireformed) and Winchester 748 powder to get
about 2050 fps.  I can't remember the number of grains of powder but that's
just as well you should really look it up yourself.  This isn't a max
load but is plenty for slaming rams at 200 meters.  It also keeps flinching
and brass trimming down to a minimum.

With this load I've dropped 38 out of 40 silhouettes and the two I missed were
flinches.  Good luck with your new pistol.

-brian
-- 
"It cannot be presumed that any clause in the Constitution is intended to
be without effect..."

- Chief Justice John Marshall, Marbury v. Madison, 1803
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Info on Case and Neck Turning with Forster Trimmer Requested
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:15:03 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1992Dec29.160636.20615@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
#In article <withrow.15.0@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> withrow@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Jim Withrow) writes:
##I am considering purchase of a Forster Trimmer and was wondering if any of 
##the rec.guns netters had any experience with it.
#
#I would like to open the thread up a bit. I'm interested in turning the
#necks on my rifle brass and would appreciate opinons on what to buy. I
#have been using the Lee trimmer for length so I don't have anything
#invested in a bench trimmer. I have seen catalog listings for bench
#trimmers with neck turning attachments made by a number of firms. I
#have also seen hand tools that do just the one job of neck turning.
#I'm not sure of the advantages and disadvantages of each.
#
#-- 

Call Sinclair Int. for their catalog; then decide.

Sinclair (219)493-1858

tell them that your wife can't decide what to get you for your
birthday; and you'll get it real soon.  My wife needed one for XMas
and they had it to me in 4 days.

I use the Hart miccrometer neck turner, but it is very hard to come by.
Except for the gunsmith that sold me mine, I have seen none other.  The
Sinclair is just as good and perhaps a little more standard.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com

	"I got blisters on my fingers!!!" - John Lennon 
		(must be a BR case prepper)
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: One more Cz52 question
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:06:37 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi


In article <9301061648.AA12386@pravda.webo.dg.com> googs@pravda.webo.dg.com (Joe Gugliemino) writes:
#I still have one question about the pistol.  What does the lever at the
#front of the trigger guard do?  At first I thought it might be a slide
#release or lock, but once I worked the stiffness out of the action the
#lever didn't do anything that I couldn't do some other way.  If you know
#what it is I'd appreciate a post.  Thanks.
#any information

Joe,
  I'm not sure which "lever" you are talking about. There are two "legs"
at the  front of the trigger guard. These are pulled down while the slide
is pushed forward to remove the slide. There is a linkage on the left
(port) side of the gun, above the trigger. This is part of the slide
hold-back. As far as I can tell, it is not intended that you manipulate
this directly. It is raised by the magazine follower  when the last
round is fed and lowered  when the magazine is replaced and the slide
is pulled back.

  As for ammo; you should be able to shoot any commercial 7.63 Mauser
you can find. I have both Fiocchi and Hansen. The  Hansen is marked
for both .30 Mauser and 7.62 Tokarev. You should also be able to use
any decent surplus 7.62 Tokarev ammo and the M48 Chech, if you  can
find any. The Chech M48 is basically a "hot" 7.62 Tokarev.

-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * Life only admits two states: 
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * growing and dying. So what,
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * if I've put on a little weight?
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Major 9
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:15:03 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <1993Jan5.130352.17919@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:
#You know, I've always wondered *why* they developed the 9x21
#cartridge when the (virtually unused) 9mm Winchester Magnum
#already existed (I believe I've heard it is 9x22). I'm pretty
#sure 9mm Win. Mag. predates 9x21 by quite a bit.

	The point of 9x21 was legalistic: It's just enough
	different from 9mm Nato/lugar to appease the Italian
	government and the US Practical shooting bosses.
	The point was to have a round that would fit in existing
	hi capacity 9mm's. Since the only difference is the
	length of the brass, you could even just do a reamer
	job on a 9mm chamber to turn it into a 9x21 (you don't
	want to do this, as the higher pressures of the 9x21 Major
	require a fully supported chamber)

	By the way, the head size of the 9mm WinMag is .394 vs
	.392 for 9mm. The length of the brass is 1.160, which
	is just .009 shorter than the SAMMI max overall length of
	the loaded 9mm Lugar/9x19/... round. The 38 super is 
	built for 45acp length magazines, and it's COL is about 1.250 
	or so, and the brass is .900" long. which makes it a 9x23,
	while the 9mm WinMag is about a 9x29 or so.


*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
From: fisel@eskimo.com (Aron Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Beginner Help
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:25:54 GMT
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-


Hello, I was wondering if there is a FAQ for this newsgroup. I'm not
sure if this is an appropriate place to post, but it seemed like the
best choice. I am inexperienced with Firearms and I would like to learn
more about them the >right< way, not half assed. Any help on periodicals
to read, or gun clubs in my area (Seattle) would be helpful. If you post
I will proably not see it for a while so email would be prefered. Thanks
in advance for any help.

Fisel@eskimo.com

[MODERATOR:  After hastily apologizing for not having the FAQ ready,
let me be the first to THANK YOU for seeking information before jumping
in with firearms.   This is the responsible thing to do.  I encourage
you to contact the NRA to find out local clubs and also "basic firearms
safety instructors".  They should be able to tell you when the next classes
are offered in your area.  There are several, and the one I usually suggest
folks get is called the "personal protection" course -- not that we are at
all assuming you are interested in this solely for defense, but rather this
class will teach legal aspects of owning and using firearms (in addition to
gun safety), which I feel are important to know in this day in age. Stores
often provide classes like this, but it is my personal experience (locally
in MD anyway) that the classes taught by concerned volunteers are better
than those provided by bored employees at a store (unless that store is 
really set up for education.)   Usually the club-provided classes are cheaper
than commercial classes too!  Okay, folks, this reader has asked a very
responsible question ... time for you to pitch in suggestions too! ]