HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:30:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.001320.28917@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternl
ight) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.215319.29462@starbase.trincoll.edu> nmiller@starbase.trin
coll.edu (norman miller) writes:
>
>>
>>If they're in a public park then the state is obviously involved.
>>There's the problem.
>
>I disagree. A public park is one of the few state-provided places that's
>a haven for free speech. It is not a place where the state expresses
>state political policy, but rather is a State-maintained public place.
>
>David
>
Erecting a menorah in a public park or square requires some sort of permit
and therein lies state involvement.  It means that the state is asked to
make distinctions between those things that are "religious" and those that
are not (incredibly the Habadniks urged the theory that lighting menorahs
is a secular activity).  It means--down the line--an unholy mess.

And it means, even more certainly, that our grandchildren will grow up
in an oppressive and coercive Christian ambiance.

nm


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: chr04ha@vmsa.technion.ac.il
Subject: Re: The differences, again :-)
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 23:17:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.192547.550@netcom.com>, strnlght@netcom.com 
(David Sternlight) writes:
> 
> E.A. Halevi discusses God communicating to Moses in Hebrew. Why would
> God have to use any particular language, rather than speaking directly
> to Moses' brain, so to speak?
> 
> Does "vayomer" necessarily have to mean via speech?
> 
Please David, read before you write!
All I did was tell a joke, that may perhaps have gone sour.
I provided conclusive(?) evidence that Moses was a Galtzianer :-)
and thus presumably a Hassid rather than a Misnaged :-) 
but left the question of what language God used in speaking to Moses
for the original disputants on this thread to establish. :-)

As far as I know, "vayomer" means "said" or "spoke". I will leave it
to wiser heads than mine to determine whether by speech, by telepathy,
on the net, or whatever, and in what language. 
If on the net, it was probably English :-)

(How many smileys are needed to indicate that I am not being serious??)

Amitai

 *---------------------------------------------------------------*
 | E.A. Halevi, Department of Chemistry, Technion - I.I.T.       |     
 | "Mipnei seiva takum, vehadarta pnei zaken" - Leviticus 19, 32 |
 *---------------------------------------------------------------*

> David

> --
> David Sternlight
> RIPEM Public Key on server  --  Consider it an envelope for your e-mail
> 
-- 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: New Year
Organization: Free Faerie Front
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:50:11 GMT

In article <92Dec31.192831.19099@acs.ucalgary.ca> kmjoffe@acs.ucalgary.ca (Kenneth M. Joffe) writes:
>Here is the question.  If there are so many people that do not
>allow themselves to say 'Merry Christmas' (myself included), why
>are we not equally against saying 'Happy New Year'.?  I
>understand that there are differences here, but why accept the
>new year based on the existance of Jesus of Nazarath??

We don't. The calendar we use is *secular* in origin; it is based
on the "Julian calendar", instituted by Julius Caesar several
decades before Yashka haMamzer was allegedly born. (We call the
calendar the "Gregorian Calendar" or sometimes "Julio/Gregorian"
because Pope Gregory XIII instituted some reforms to make the
calendar more accurate.)

The fact that Christmas falls close to the end of the Julian year
is coincidental.

(Bizarre theological note: New Year's Day is a Catholic holiday,
because it's the eighth day after Christmas (counting Christmas
itself as the first day), and therefore it's the day their god
had the end of his penis cut off. No, really. It used to be
called "The Feast of the Circumcision", but I think they decided
that it sounded too Jewish.)
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:07:02 GMT


Marc Colten says Chabad got permission to put up a Menorah, and
now the KKK wants to put up a cross.

My guess is that they'll lose. The menorah commemorates a
historical event. It's kinda like putting up a statue of,
say, Jose Marti in a public park in a Hispanic neighborhood.
No problem.

The cross is a religious symbol. Moreover, though atheistic historians
(those historians who are atheistic in their professional lives) agree
that the Maccabee/Greek thing happened, they don't have any evidence
beyond the assertions of later Christians that the Crucifixion of
Jesus of Nazareth happened, or even that such a person was
divine. Christmas is a matter of faith and belief; Chanukah is
a matter of historical observance. The two are quite different.
Thus a Menorah or tree, but no creche or cross.

Thus it can be argued that the Menorah is a historical symbol (forget
about the business of the oil burning for longer than it should for
the purposes of my argument).

A closer parallel to putting up a cross in a public place would be
putting up a star of David. That hasn't been approved, and neither
should the cross.

David
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine)
Subject: Re: Solomon Perel
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:01:49 GMT

mannj@acf9.nyu.edu (Jordan Mann) writes:

>levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:

>>I recently saw the very good movie, "Europa, Europa." This movie
>>is based on the wartime experiences of Solomon Perel, a young German
>>Jew who pretended to be German and a member of the Hitler Youth.

>>My question is: His experiences, while they made a great movie,
>>seemed too implausible to be true. Were they verified?

>It depends what you mean by verified.  An article in the NY Times said
>that *he* said that most of the movie is true, although not all.  For 
>example, the scene at the end, in which his brother identifies him just as
>he is about to be shot, was made up.  But he says that the scene in which
>the teacher presents him to the class as a fine example of Aryan masculinity
>is true, and that after the war he found the teacher and said to him, "You 
>know, I'm Jewish!"
>--
>Jordan Mann at NYU      (mannj@cims.nyu.edu)

Yes, I know the movie *is* mostly based on what he said. But has what
he said been verified?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: fy@lucid.com (Frank Yellin)
Subject: Re: Feld brothers
Organization: Lucid, Inc., Menlo Park, CA
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:40:23


In article <5065@ceylon.gte.com> sg04@gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund)
writes: 
>
>  Would someone (perhaps one of the archair attorneys in s.c.jland) care
>  to fill me in on two details?
>
>  1. What is the alleged motive for this crime?

No idea.  I could easily make up a couple off the top of my head.  But you
don't really need a "why" in order to convict.  It just makes it easier to
convince a judge or jury.   

>  2. What elements does one need to have in order to indict someone for a crime
>    of intent of homocide in CA? motive? probable cause? prior arrest record?

Presumably, California is like the rest of the U.S.  You need "probable
cause" to indict, "beyond a reasonable doubt" to convict.  

In general, though, DA's don't indict unless there is a lot more evidence
than just probable cause.  It's a waste of their time and the court's if
they don't think they have enough to get a conviction.

Again, if anyone has any >>first-hand<< information please post it to the
net for us all to read.

-- Frank Yellin
   fy@lucid.com
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Jewish Charities
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 14:57:10 GMT

jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love) writes:

> One issue that I would be very interested in exploring is the question
> of whether the umbrella organizations discussed in the original posting
> are guilty of misrepresenting the percentage of funds which goes to
> adminstrative expense. Our local papers do annual features listing
> large charities and how they compare on this issue, and various
> national Jewish charities usually do very well--often coming in at
> under 15% for administrative charges. But I have often wondered if the
> calculation is really correctly computed. For example, if I give $100
> to my local UJA campaign, and they take $15 for administrative costs
> and turn $85 over to national UJA, is this then reported to watchdog
> agencies as an 85% efficient transaction? Because if this the case, I
> think the definitions need to be reworked. I figure that I'd be lucky
> if $25 actually ever makes it to the people I'm trying to help, and I'd
> call that a 75% *inefficient* transaction.
> 
> Anyone have some real research on this?

I understand that a change in accounting procedures is in the offing,
but current practice allows including many fund-raising activities
under "education."  For instance, while UJA may claim a mere 15% in
administrative costs, they may spend a fortune in mailings, fund-raising
events and the like.  As long as they make the slightest mention in the
mailings or during these events of what they claim to be doing with the
money, the entire cost of the effort can be placed under education
expenditures.  What other tricks are used I don't know.  

This is clearly not restricted to Jewish charities.  I recall
reading recently about some finagling among several organizations
to "share" the paper benefits of certain donations.  This would
artificially pump up gross receipts, thereby lowering percentage
spent on administration.  (Of course, it would also lower the %-age
"trickling down," but that doesn't show up per se.)

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Dr Isaac Balbin)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Organization: Collaborative Information Technology Research Institute
Date:  3 Jan 93 11:43:36 GMT

aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>>These are the same blood curdlers who scream for Salman Rushdie's life
>>without regard for other countries laws.

>Don't try to tie in two separate issues.  The Salman Rushdie affair is
>dead and buried.  And if you want to use double standards about regard
>for human life and international law, it adds very little value or
>credibility to your statements.  And you don't even have to scream
>religion, except when your own people were genocided by Nazis.

>Anisa

Hey Anisa baby. The issues are all connected. It is the same lunatic
koran wieldingf  blood thirsty murderers who would kill Rushdie that
claim that there is a holy writ to excise the land of Israel from the 
Jews by murdering Jews.

Face it Anisa, it is all about the Koran and Muslim land and it  is
only the blood thirsty extremists who admit  it. The others just couch
it in terms of Palestinian nationalism. Go as your own Arab bretheren.
They don't  know what Palestinian means. Wasn't it that secularist Assad
that said Palestinians were just Southern Syrians.
Face it. It  is an Arab problem. They can't face the fact that it is
in Jewish hands FOREVER.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg)
Subject: Re: jewish charities
Organization: Unixland Public Access Unix  (508) 655-3848
Distribution: soc
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:05:55 GMT

Rob Brickman writes that top executives of small- and
medium-sized companies typically get paid $200,000 or so, so how
can the Jewish community expect to attract good talent to head its
charities if they don't match those salaries.

I say it depends on the job. Maybe the national head of UJA deserves
such a salary -- MAYBE -- but certainly not the heads of regional
offices. It is absolutely ludicrous to expect the average person who
makes $25,000 or $35,000 a year to be willing to part with substantial
sums of his/her own salary at the request of someone earning almost
10 times as much. We are all being asked to be generous, and donate money
that we could certainly use for things *we* need. It is not too much to ask
that people working for those agencies have some kind of serious commitment
level, too, and not simply want to earn as much money as they can out of
a charitable agency.  

If all you are looking for is a high income, I don't believe a career
with a charitable organization is necessarily right for you.

If you want to compare with the average American private-sector job,
keep in mind that someone working for a Jewish agency gets MANY, MANY
MORE PAID HOLIDAYS. The average small- and mid-sized corporation does
not give time off for Purim, the first 2 days of Passover, and all the
other holidays I remember my sister getting off when she worked for
Hadassah. Nor do I get to leave early on Fridays in the winter so I
can be home by sundown. I have no qualms about offering
more vacation time in general to someone working for a non-profit agency,
in return for less-than-market-value salary.

I do some of my donating directly these days (i.e. to a newly arrived
immigrant family, without going through an agency). Yes, I lose the
tax deduction, but I know that everything I'm giving is going to
someone who needs it.

Sharon 

-- 
Note: My current address (sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us) will be invalid
as of 6 p.m. Dec. 31 because unixland is shutting down. My new address is
sharon@world.std.com  
--
Date: Monday, 21 December 1992 22:39:10 MST
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.15R
From: "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com>
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
Subject: Re: Assembly line
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Distribution: world

In <1992Dec21.200741.23215@epas.toronto.edu>, nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)  wrote:
# 
# In article <1992Dec19.053000.23169@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis (Ted Frank) writes:
# >I got shanghaied by the Lubavitch two-three years ago in New York.  They
# >had set up a "mitzvah van" on the street in the Village, approached me as
# >I walked by, got me to go into the van and put on t'fillin, say the prayer,
# >and ushered me back out.  They were only stopping Jews, as far as I could
# >tell -- I guess I'm fairly obvious.  I couldn't help but be amused by the
# >assembly line nature of the process.
# 
# Once at the Kotel ha-Ma'aravi, I was accosted by some Chabadniks who
# were trying to get me to put on tefillin.  "Thanks, but I have my
# own," I said in Hebrew.  This fellow persisted, and I said, "I have my
# own, thank you," in Yiddish.  He just wouldn't let me alone, and I
# said, "Look, I have my own tefillin" in English and waved my tefillin
# bag in his face ...  In the end I just had to run for it.  Caught my
# breath as I was putting on tefillin.

  A Chabad rabbi I knew in Alabama loved to tell the story of one of
  the tefillin troopers who was so nearly blind and deaf that he
  went for a woman.  She kept yelling "Ishah!" at him, but he nearly
  had her wrapped before her increasingly wild attempts to reclaim her
  arm caused him to get a good hard feel of her chest.  I take it
  that there was more to the story, but at this point my informant
  invariably became quite incoherent.

--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Cat Stevens (was Re: A self-confessed silly thread)
Date: 3 Jan 93 08:43:51 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1993Jan3.041314.25608@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>
>I remember those days-- a little ditty was making the rounds at
>the Yale Kosher Kitchen (offensive song to the tune of
>"Moonshadow" follows):

Reminds me of an even more offensive lyric that Dennis Miller
adapted to this song:  "I'm being followed by a big Muslim" ...

So which one gets the Most Biased medal?

Anisa

	"Allow us - we'll show the way ..."
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: jesus: where his remainders were at about 1900?
Date: 21 Dec 1992 16:15:45 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <4580@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
> The place some christians believe to be jesus's grave was found to be
>within that-time-walls and hence is not his grave.

Sorry Gideon, but this is simply not true. The cave which is 
marked today by the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was probably
outside of the walls during the period in question. This
has been a controversial issue amongst archaeologists for
quite some time, but since the late 70's most opinion, by
both Jewish and non-Jewish scholars is that the location
cannot be ruled out. It *is* however true that there is no 
certain evidence that the currently indicated cave is 
the true site. That identification is still primarily
an issue of whether one trusts tradition.

I will be teaching a unit on the Holy Sepulchre in a few
weeks, and if anyone is interested, I'll upload the 
references.
-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)
Subject: Re: Jewish Christmas Carol Hits
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:12:19 GMT





Arthur writes:

>I never thought about this before, but after hearing Barbara Streisand
>doing a christmas song, it occured to me that she's Jewish, isn't she?

Uh-huh... she is... and so is Neil Diamond, but that doesn't stop him
from having an (almost) hour Christmas special running on HBO.  I kinda
like his rendition of "Santa Claus is Coming to Town"... complete with
dreidle in the background   8-)



--
       No nation can survive without pride in its traditions.
       Marlene J. Miller   aa324@yfn.ysu.edu
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Jews by Choice
Date: 27 Dec 92 18:36:15 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio

Prof. Lawrence Epstein is asking to hear from converts to Judaism.
This is his letter:

  I am writing a guidebook for Jews-by-choice, people who are
  converts to Judaism.  For my research I would like to hear from
  those who are willing to fill out a questionnaire and/or be
  interviewed on this subject.  In particular, I am interested in
  hearing from people considering a conversion, those now seeking
  conversion, people who have already converted, and rabbis who have
  dealt extensively with converts.
     /s/
     Lawrence J. Epstein,   English Department, Suffolk Community
     College, 533 College Road,   Selden,  NY  11784

Dr. Epstein's book "A Treasury of Jewish Inspirational Stories" is
the Main Selection of the Jewish Book Club for January, and he has
also written:
 The Theory and Practice of Welcoming Converts to Judaism" (1992)
 A Treasury of Jewish Anecdotes" (1989)
 Zion's Call ( 1984) and  Samuel Goldwyn (1981)

Please feel free to contact Dr. Epstein directly.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: kahn@troi.cc.rochester.edu (James Kahn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Joke of the Day
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:50:08 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1h7friINNbuk@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf) writes:
>In a previous article, ward@sun17.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Paul A.S. Ward) says:
>>Sorry, the best bit of grafitti definitely has to be
>>
>>"Absolute Zero is OK"
>>
>Remember, this is supposed to be JEWISH humor.
>
>Paul 

In any case, the best is the old classic:

 	Nietzsche:  God is dead.
	God:  Nietzsche is dead.

I trust no one will quarrel with the Jewish content of this graffiti.

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman)
Subject: Re: Feld brothers
Reply-To: clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Live & Direct from Downtown Petah Tikva ISRAEL
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 22:38:17 GMT

In article <m0n6i0o-0000xkC@warlock.col400.att.com> <hem@warlock.col400.att.com (Hillel Markowitz)> writes:
>Am I just being paranoid or could the police be pushing the Feld case
>because they are afraid of the false arrest suit they are subject to
>if/when they admit their mistake.  Of course, it looks like the more
>they push, the worse it will be for the police when they have to drop
>the charges (especially with the treatment of the brothers as described
>in the Jerusalem Report article.
>
>Can the state/county be sued for the full legal expenses they have
>forced the Felds to undergo?  Does California even have the money to
>repay the Felds in the first place?
>____________________________________________________

I think you are just being paranoid.

The "Jerusalem Report" piece was published in the Jerusalem insert section
of the Post and was an "exclusive interview" with.... the Felds' brother,
who lives in Jerusalem and had absolutely NO independent information to
offer on the subject.  Why should we attach weight to what he said?  He's
at least 8,000 miles away.

I haven't read a single thing in s.c.j or mail.jewish which causes me to
doubt that the police had probable cause for this arrest.

I think the Felds have a lot more to worry about than do the police.
-- 
Bill Coleman
clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: Messianic Judaism
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 13:51:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.012551.25574@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.212432.26449@bony1.bony.com> billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec15.020441.15744@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>>
>>>God did while Moses was in charge?  Like parting the Reed Sea, turning
>>>Egypt's water into blood, slaying all of Egypt's first born, guiding
>>
>>Give me a bulldozer and I'll part the Reed Sea too.  =B^)
>
>Fine. Now, how exactly quick can you do it. Like say 5 lives or 6? Nice
>try!

Probably just a few hours.  For the humor impaired, its the REED Sea (as
in dried grass) not the RED Sea (as in a body of water between Egypt and
Israel).

Other posted nonsense responded to via email to spare the reasonable
readers of s.c.j.  =B^)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Synagogue Music
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 13:35:38 GMT

In article <199212272136.AA15280@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> <Murray Kahl
<kahl@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>> writes:

>As far the Hoadert... Lchai Olamim... which is sung to the French tune
>of the Marseillese, this was adopted by the Rebbe Shlita (the current
>Rebbe) a number of years ago.

I understood this had something to do with the time he spent at the
Sorbonne getting a degree in engineering.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish