HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: MD and DCC encoding-request for info
Date: 30 Dec 92 17:44:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24516
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <DAVE.92Dec30234952@pipi.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp> dave@pipi.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp (David Wuertele) writes:
>In article <shetline-271292211904@128.89.19.80> shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline) writes:
>> If they [MD or DCC] only handle PCM data, would there be a generational
>> degradation when copying MDs/DCCs (forgetting about serial copy mgt for the
>> moment)? It seems to me quite likely that there could be -- calculation
>> round-offs, inconsistent "framing" of the PCM data stream...
>
>Yes, there will be if there is any type of vector quantization going on in
>the compression (block transform + quant schemes are a subset of all
>vector quant schemes), because the PCM data stream has no framing
>information to keept the vectors consistent.  There is also a possibility
>that pre- and post- filtering is conducted, which will degrade even more.
>
>Dave

Oh, sheeesh.

Both coders (ATRAC and MUSICAM/PASC/ISO Layer I and II) are lossy
perceptual coders.

They both work on the same general principle, using this sort of block diagram:

--------> Filter Bank   -------->  Rate Control  ----> Bitstream generation
   |                                  ^
   |                                  |
   |                                  |
   -----> Perceptual Model -----------


In MUSICAM the filter bank is a 32 band polyphase filter bank
by Dehery  et. al after Crochiere and Rabiner "Multirate Digital
Signal Processing", the Perceptual Model is a Zwicker-based
model (See ISO-MPEG-1 Draft Audio Standard),  the rate control
is based on 3 groups of 384 samples in time/frequency, and the
bitstream uses PCM and some minimal radix encoding to do 
transmission/storage.

In ATRAC the filter bank is an MDCT (See Princen and Bradley's
ICASSP paper 1987), the perceptual model isn't published, the
rate control is some kind of block companding, and the bitstream
unpublished.  The MDCT is switched in length, it's not clear what
choices are supported presently.

A good place to read about this stuff is "Advances in Speech Signal
Processing", Furui and Sondhi, Chapter 4, by Brandenburg and Johnston.
Marcel Dekker, NY 1992.   For newer stuff see the latest ICASSP,
look for papers by Johnston and Fereirra, Davidson et al, Singh,
and others.  The Johnston paper was submitted late, it's on the
last four pages of the audio book.
-- 
Extremism *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   in the    *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
  defense of     *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 liberty is no vice.  *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video
From: jayj@fc.hp.com (Jay Johannes (Lvld))
Subject: Re: Is Laserdisc _really_ robust ?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:57:21 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

Steven Green (+61 6 276 6813) (gre253@mis.csiro.au) wrote:
: I've been following the "is S-VHS dead" thread for quite a while, and
: noted several comments that concluded "... LD is more robust than
: video tape ..." 
: 
: But, is it _really_ ? Sure tapes seem to wear out at a rate of knots in the
: rental arena. But would you trust a 12" _expensive_ LD to a pack of "typical"
: video rental freaks? Just look at the state of some of the video tapes and
: covers - it makes you wonder what they did with them !?
We don't have much of an LD rental market here, either. 99%+ of rentals
are VHS. The few places that rent LDs tend to attract a higher class of
renter. Even so, most places tend to keep the original cover art at the
store and send the discs home in generic covers. The discs tend to get
fingerprinted and also tend toward scratches.

I expect that the biggest problem for failure might be breakage. I don't
think most people understand that these things are somewhat brittle. I
lost one disc when my four year old daughter (she's 11 now), leaned it
up against a cabinet and then sat down on it. It snapped in half. What
amazed me was that I then broke one of the remaining halves. This took a
lot less effort than I expected.

  Regards,
    Jay
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video
From: A10035@email.mot.com (Scott Lindsey)
Subject: Surround Sound detractors <=> LP holdouts
Organization: Motorola Corp. Man. Res. Ctr.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 07:23:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.174951.1054@cmkrnl.com>, jeh@cmkrnl.com writes:
> 
> In article <1992Dec31.143637.8584@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, A10035@email.mot.com (Scott Lindsey) writes:
> > It is very important to be able to control the relative volume of the
> > surround speakers from the listening position. I placed the tiny 7's on
> > the floor on one side and very low on a book shelf on the other side.
> > The result was generally a more diffuse surround sound, but they needed to be 
> > turned up a little more loudly. The surround sound effect is dramatic and
> > a welcome change. The most annoying thing about surround sound is that when
> > the broadcast signal doesn't support surround sound, it's almost unlistenable!
> 
> Are you sure you aren't just being fooled by the "louder is better" effect?
> 
> In many cases most or all of the perceived benefit of the "surround sound" is
> that the surround speakers are turned up high enough to add additional volume. 
> 
> I've ruined the day of many a SS sales dweeb by insisting on comparing the
> SS with non-surround, but with the latter being adjusted to a volume similar
> to what you get with the SS speakers working.  
> 
> 	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA
> Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, hanrahan@eisner.decus.org, or jeh@crash.cts.com
> Uucp:  ...{crash,eisner,uunet}!cmkrnl!jeh
> 
Just like there were lots of holdouts for LP's over CD's, so there will be
with surround sound. You're point about the loudness trickery is certainly a
valid one, but the fact is, you can have a great soundstage in front with
excellent imaging, but will not get the effect of a jet zipping over your head
without rear speakers. The "total Surround" setup I'm sure could sound
great with an ideal setup. However, I find that runing the front speakers
in normal stereo mode (without spacial eq.) does a much better job of
providing imaging in the front  (at least without a center speaker). I still
run the rear speakers which provides the front to back imaging. And the 
Radio Shack Minimus 7's (the old David speakers) do an excellent job. In
fact, I'm sure the setup is much more forgiving by using one's already
purchased two channel stereo system to provide an excellent front sound
and only using the decoder to generate the rear sound. The theatrical
surround effect needs the center channel distinguished much more than a
quality home system. BUT YOU MUST TURN OFF THE FRONT SURROUND EQ. If you
don't, all the voices and center sounds go to crap. Anyone who owns a 
quality stereo system knows that a voice can be imaged anywhere in front of
you ==> IMHO, Center channel not necessary in home systems.
From: grego@bit.UUCP (Greg Sanguinetti)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Summary : Amps for Vandersteen 2Ce
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:21:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: bit.540
Reply-To: grego@bit.UUCP (Grego Sanguinetti)
Distribution: rec
Organization: BIT  Portland, OR

In article <JAN.92Dec21112224@gluon.ansoft.com> jan@gluon.ansoft.com (Seaway Jan) writes:
>Thanks for all the responses. Here is the summary on the Topic:
>"What amps are best for Vandersteen 2Ce ?"
>============================================================
>I have been very happy with my Vandersteen (older 2c) driven 
>by a B&K ST-140 amp.  This amp is conservatively rated at 
> ...
>Other amps to consider would be Adcom 555 (I thought the Adcom sounded 
>more "electronic", but it has better low-end extension and control 
>than B&K), and the current Hafler.  If you can afford more, I 
> ...others deleted....

I also recommend the ST-140. Best bang for buck and a great match for
the 2Ce. I have Adcoms for my Maggies and that is a good match but I
would not recommend the Adcoms for the Vandersteens. The low end works
but the high end does not.

Next on my recommended list, behind the ST-140, is any of the Parasound
line. They are softer than the Adcoms but not quite as warm as the B&K.

-grego
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grego Sanguinetti, Bipolar Integrated Technology | Water, water everywhere,
grego@bit.uucp or grego%bit%ogi.cse.edu          | but I'd rather drink
or bit!grego@ogi.cse.edu or ...!ogicse!bit!grego | beer.
From: co940@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nicholas E. Damato)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Radio Slack not all bad...
Date: 4 Jan 1993 05:42:35 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Radio Shack products are basically low to mid-end products
and they are generally pretty good compared to other
products of that type, however what they are is over-priced.
 
I read a recent article in Wallstreet Journal that stated
that Radio Shack Policy is to make 50% profit on everything
they sell. That is why their top end of any given line never
goes on sale until they phase it out.
 
If you're on a tight budget, and only buy their stuff when
it goes on sale, you'll do pretty good. One thing they do 
WELL is product support. I was recently able to reoutfit a
friend's 1978 minisette-7 tape-recorder/radio with new belts,
pinch-roller, speaker and a motor. The parts were cheap, and
I got every-one in about 10 days. not bad.

ned.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: rhoades@ll.mit.edu (Captain Chaos)
Subject: Re: Optimization dilemma...
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 20:16:59 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.162451.15043@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>
>There were two different parameters involved, 'bias' and 'equalization'.
>Chrome and metal want the same 'eq', but not the same 'bias'.  The tape
>type selector switches switch both.  Simple.
>

Great!  Thanks for the info.  Of course you've now peaked my interest and
I might have to ask another couple burning questions:

You say II and IV have the same eq, different bias -- suggesting that the
second of my two-toggle selection system is for bias.  But calling Type II
a "high-bias" tape (as packaging does) indicates the difference between
I and II is bias also, suggesting the first toggle is bias.  Is this more
archaeic terminology, misunderstanding (ie incorrect guessing) of the
functions of the two toggle switches, or both?

I'm also curious about what the different biases and equilizations generally
do.  Does the II eq, for instance, reduce high frequencies?  Or does
equiliaztion do something entirely different than an equilizer/treble/bass
control?

Andrew
rhoades@ll.mit.edu

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: HELP! Second receiver
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:09:02 GMT

whiting@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (claude whiting) writes:
: Newsgroups: rec.audio
: Subject:HELP! Second Receiver 
: References: 
: Reply-To: whiting@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (claude whiting)
: Followup-To: 
: Distribution:usa 
: Organization: GTE Federal Systems
: Keywords: 
: 
: Need some advice and help on selecting an inexpensive receiver for a 
: secondary system. My 25 year old Pioneer finally gave out (loud hum), and I 
: would like to replace it with a 60 wpc or so receiver for $200 or less. This 
: system will only be used mainly for background music. Any suggestions? And is 
: it worth mail-ordering? Will I save much money in such a cheap price range?

Amazingly enough I recently went through the same exercise for a
stereo for my wife's workshop. Replacing a 20 year old Pioneer which
was on its last legs. We eventually bought a ~$250 (CDN) Teac, and -
even through 20 year old Pioneer speakers - the difference was astonishing.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: rkarlqu@scd.hp.com (Richard Karlquist)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Analog CDs (was: CD Sound Quality)
Date: 24 Dec 1992 16:58:36 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Santa Clara Site
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscrj.scd.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

William Nau (nau@ssesco.com) wrote:
: Bob Myers writes:
: > Yes, that IS what LDs are; now why do you think this would be better than
: > any existing format?  The bandwidth?  They're certainly not very convenient
: > (too big), nor are they as durable as CDs (given the analog nature of the
: > signal, they're not nearly as forgiving of defects as the error-corrected
: > digital CD format).
: 
: I believe he ment to indicate that the method used to record 1 hour of video
: on a LD could be condensed to a much smaller (5") disk for 75 minutes of
: audio.  This would give you an analogue recording with the convience of
: a CD.  I find the idea interesting and would be interested in the audio
: quality.
: -- 

Video LaserDisks are engineered for a signal to noise ratio of about 40
dB., which is adequate for video.  It is not at all clear how you would
increase this to CD SNR levels (98 dB for 16 bits) for an analog audio
format.  The most appropriate analogy would be VHS-HiFi.  It doesn't 
get anywhere near 98 dB SNR in native mode.  Extensive companding is 
to extend the apparent dynamic range, although it still doesn't hit 
98 dB even taking that into account.

--
       -------------------------------------------------
       |  Rick Karlquist                               |
       |  Hewlett-Packard Santa Clara Division         |
       |  Precision Time and Frequency R&D             |
       |                                               |
       |  email:  rkarlqu@scd.hp.com                   |
       |  landline:  (408)-553-2194                    |
       |  radio:  N6RK                                 |
       ------------------------------------------------
From: dap@portal.vpharm.com (David A. Pearlman)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Pink Floyd is TOO MUCH
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:21:13 GMT
Organization: Vertex Pharmaceuticals, Inc.

In article <168C4950A.KCSCHIE@vm.cmp.ilstu.edu> KCSCHIE@vm.cmp.ilstu.edu writes:
>Before you pop down $100-150 for this new Floyd set, consider this:
>It is unlikely that many of these sets will sell at such a high price.
>Eventually they will probably release the newly remastered discs
>individually, perhaps even the rarities disc. I'll wait for that before
>I spend that kind of cash on music I already have. After all, I've got
>both the gold disc releases of DSOTM and The Wall and they sound great.
>I also have the Harvest import of Animals, and it also sounds good. I'd
>love a remastered WYWH. While we're on the subject of the new box, I'll
>flame this: what a waste of money and time to include MLOR in the set!
>I would hope it sounded as good as it could the first time it was released.
> 
>Cheers!

In fact, Momentary Lapse of Reason (MLOR) is the only album in the
box that was NOT remastered for this release. If more objective heads
had prevailed, it wouldn't have been in the box at all (I talked to someone
behind the scenes and he said that only after tense business negotiations
was MLOR included). But it is what it is...

dap
-- 
=============================================================================
    David A. Pearlman

Vertex Pharmaceuticals Inc.                     email: dap@vpharm.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: dmlkm@cbnewse.cb.att.com (david.e.montalbano)
Subject: Question: Impedance switch
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:07:42 GMT
Keywords: Impedance

On the back of my receiver there is a switch form low or 
high impedance.  The high is if you are using one set of 
speakers hook to the A speakers (8 ohms).  The low switch
is for 2 pair, 8 ohms each, hooked to both A and B.
My question is, should the switch always be set to low with
speakers hooked to both A and B, even if you only plan on
playing a pair at a time?

Thanks, 
DM
From: brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Do I really need 200W?
Date: 28 Dec 92 10:57:12 GMT

in article <1992Dec14.132035.2420@discus.technion.ac.il>, sorin@techunix.technion.ac.il (Goldenberg Sorin) says:
> What's the difference between the P.M.P.O and R.M.S power ratings ?

PMPO stands for "Peak Music Power Output" and is essentially a meaningless
marketing term used to impress those who know little about audio.  It may
vaguely relate to the headroom of an amplifier, but not in a very scientific
way and rarely are the distortion figures given at the PMPO level.

In short, I'd ignore any piece of audio equipment that needs to advertise
itself on the basis of "PMPO".  It's probably junk.

RMS stands for "Root Mean Sqaure" and is a more realistic measure of the
output power of an amp, and the one you should look for.  It can also help
to know what class the power amplification stage is (class A, B, AB etc).
Also, look for what the distortion figures are at the rated RMS power.  IMHO
anything under 0.1% THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) is fine.

Class A amplifiers have their output stage always in conduction.  This makes
them overall very linear, but rather inefficient.

As to how many watts you need - I reckon not many.  I have a 25 W per channel
true RMS class A power amplifier, and a comfortable listening volume is 2 to 3
out of 10.

Turning it up to 4 to 5/10 is *very* loud, and anything over 5 gets to
seriously annoy the neighbours :-)  It's only been to 10 once (briefly) at a
rather raging party I once held - it started to sound a little distorted at
that level, but it may have been my ears 'cause it was bloody loud!

So from this I think 25 W RMS is plenty, but it also depends on the other
specs for the amp and the specs for the speakers you're connecting to it.

My plastic A$5 note worth.

-- 
Brendan Jones  | ACSnet:  brendan@otc.otca.oz.au               | This space
R&D Contractor |   UUCP:  {uunet,mcvax}!otc.otca.oz.au!brendan | for lease
Network Access |  Phone:  (02)287-3128    Fax:  (02)287-3299   | pending new
|||| OTC ||    |  Snail:  GPO Box 7000 Sydney 2001, AUSTRALIA  | .sig
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: bobk@sequent.com (Bob Krull)
Subject: Re: Pioneer "Auto BLE" opinions?
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 16:57:55 GMT

In article <10583@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu (Wm. L. Ranck) writes:
>
>Hello Folks,
>   Does anyone have experience with the Pioneer "Auto BLE" type decks?
>I was looking at them over the weekend and the idea seems good to me.
>The deck records a test signal on the tape and then reads it off again to
>set the bias level for the individual tape in use.  I'm not a fan of gee-whiz
>gadgets but this actually aeems useful.  

It *does* seem like a useful feature.  I guess that's why major manufacturers
have neen offering it for the last 10 years ;-).

Ok, that *was* a cheap shot.  I don't know anything specifically about
the Pioneer deck, but I do have two comments.  First, I've always just
considered auto bias adjustment a mandatory requirement.  I'd like to
hear from the net on whether this seems reasonable.  Second, just because
a piece of equipment has a feature "commonly found" on higher-end gear
doesn't make it quality equipment.

Happy holidays,
-Bob
bobk@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: joe@avs.com (Joe Peterson)
Subject: Re: questions on new digital formats
Organization: Advanced Visual Systems Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:15:44 GMT

Ken Zuroski (kz08+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:
: Speaking of the new digital formats, I've yet to see either DCC or MD
: pre-recorded media for sale in music shops. My questions: how are they
: gonna package these things? I assume the DCC can fit into the old analog
: cassette containers, but what about the MD diskettes? With all the fuss
: from the record stores about CD packaging, I'm interested in what the
: record companies have planned for the new formats. 

We have them here in Boston.  The MD's are in (basically) a cassette shaped
box (much larger than need be, but able to fit in the cassette racks of
stores).  The blank MD's are in a tiny hard plastic case just big enough for
them (these cases are pretty cool - you slide the MD into them and they
kind-of snap into a notch).

DCC's come in a cassette shaped box, but the tape slides out of the small end.

						Joe
From: chased@rbbb.Eng.Sun.COM (David Chase)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: What is impedance of 12 yr. old Advent 5002s?
Date: 22 Dec 1992 01:20:24 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: ca
Reply-To: chased@rbbb.Eng.Sun.COM (David Chase)
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbbb

Please note the limited distribution, and the please reply to me, both
to cut the newsgroup clutter and so I'll actually see the answer.

I've got a pair of Advent 5002 speakers, about 12 years old.  The back
of the speaker says "Advent 5002", but it does not say anything about
the impedance.  Older and newer similar (large) speakers are 8 ohm
speakers.

I've had very poor luck finding anyone who knows for sure (tried two
stores, one repair shop, the library, and a used book store).  Does
anyone happen to know the impedance of these speakers?

For reference, I was thinking of hooking up the speakers that I
already own (and use as furniture) to a bookshelf system that
supplies/uses "8 ohm" speakers (that would fit nicely in my office).

Thanks much,
David Chase
Sun Microsystems
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: Mike_Benna@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Benna)
Subject: Re: Velodyne ULD-12 hums - why, and can it be fixed?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:58:58 GMT

> Cal Demaine writes:
>
> The problem?  Bad ground, of course.

I originally thought so too, but as I mentioned in my original post, it hums
even with everything else unplugged; that's why I ruled out a ground loop.
It's also not nearly as loud as a ground loop would be.  Thanks for the
suggestion anyway... I wish it were so simple :)
--
Mike_Benna@mindlink.bc.ca      Vancouver B.C., Canada
MindSpan Technologies          Video Game Design and Development
HardBall III, Summer/Winter Challenge, Joe Montana Football, Face Off!, etc
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: fm@neptune.iex.com (Mohammad Farooq)
Subject: RECOMMANDATION FOR WALKMAN ABOUT $100
Originator: fm@neptune.iex.com
Organization: iex
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:02:35 GMT


I posted this article a few weeks ago but didn't receive any response. I would
appreciate if someone on the net can share his/her experince with me. I am
thinking to buy a walkman. I am looking for best sound quality and some good
 options.If someone has done comparison, I would like to have the results. 
Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: questions on new digital formats
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 20:20:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.184453.11969@dgbt.doc.ca> ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted  
Grusec) writes:
> Yes, BUT, the major use of cassette tape is NOT music, but
> dictating machines, telephone answering machines,
> etc.  Pedestrian uses, not music.  DCC may fail for music,
> yet be a raging success in this much larger domain. 

Pretty expensive answering machine. For the cost
difference that is inevitable, I can't imagine people
opting for DCC over ACC in such devices. Other forms of
digital recording perhaps... 

Gordon

 
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
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Newsgroups: rec.audio