From: msilva@mercenary.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Mario J. Silva)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: Re:View from Timorese Resistance
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:03:27
Organization: UC Berkeley
Reply-To: msilva@cs.Berkeley.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: mercenary.cs.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: Irianto Sukaton's message of Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:53:35 -0500 


In article <4f01Az200WB2NZG2lJ@andrew.cmu.edu> Irianto Sukaton <is08+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:


   Excerpts from netnews.alt.culture.indonesia: 4-Nov-92 Re: Re:View from
   Timorese R.. by Mario J. Silva@mercenary 
   > You probably are aware that your Timorese brothers (as well as some
   > Indonesian) on the net do not reply to messages like yours for fear of
   > retaliation.  
     ^^^^^^^^^^^
   I sincerely do not think so.  But I can see how someone like you,
   who chooses to name an internet node MERCENARY could think that way.

I have been in contact by email with several Indonesians that read my
post and sent me their notes saying they do not speak out for that
reason. For me that is a sufficient proof.  

My machine was already named mercenary before I arrived here, and will
probably still be after I leave. Don't judge me based on that kind of
assumptions, please. They make absolutely no sense.

Of course, you do not have to worry about being persecuted by the
Indonesian government. But if you read the international press, you'll
find constant references to the way the Indonesian government manages
information and I am sure that will help you get a different view.

   >  
   > Howver, it seemd to be clear to me from Horta's interview that
   > Timorese people do not feel as your brothers. 

   Maybe so.  But as an aside; what are the background of these "Leaders
   of the East Timorese Resistance"?  How did they (or their) relatives
   sided during rebellions against Portuguese colony?

I read about a few FRETILIN leaders that were fighting the Portuguese
before '74. But there is no comparison between the strenght of the
Portuguese colonial presence (a few hundred people) and today's
Indonesian influence (150,000 Javanese people moved to Timor since
'76). So you should expect today's resistance movement to be orders of
magnitude larger, 

   > Someone in another posting suggested that Timorese had to be governed
   > by Indonesia because they are a primitive people living in the
   > information age. Just because they are primitive, shouldn't they at
   > least be allowed to have a word on how they want to be governed?

   Isn't this EXACTLY what you are doing?

Obviously not. I'm not saying anything besides that they should be
able to decide what is best for them and that that genocide has to be
stopped.  You seem to be claiming to know what is best for them or
that the Indonesian government does. I do think that no one but the
Timorese themselves should be the judge of their outcome.  Note that I
have nothing against Timor becoming part of Indonesia, if that is
their decision.


   > The same about the schools (that teach the main Indonesian language
				      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   > along with Suharto's propaganda) that Indonesia claims it has been
   > creating. From Horta's interview, it seemd clear that what they want
   > in the first place is the Indonesian army out of their country. 
   >  

   As a general policy, local languages or dialects are taught at
   public schools.  Classroom instruction is usually in Indonesian.
   Lingua franca is needed to get ANYTHING done in the WORLD.  Do you
   only take classes that are held in Portuguese at UCB?  It would be
   a great disservice not to teach Indonesian to the students of Timor
   Timur as most of the business is held in Indonesian.

That argument may be correct, but does not answer to what I intended
to say.

I was trying to answer to those claiming that Indonesia has a genuine
humaritarian interest in teaching those illiterate people in Timor. To
me, it is obvious that the objective of those schools is much wider
than teaching those people how to read. By seing how other
dictatorial/colonial regimes have used education in the past, it is
not difficult to infer what the real Indonesian government agenda is.


Mario


I don't want this to turn this into personnal attacks.  As a general
rule, I do answer only to those who question my positions. You started
with a personal attack and gradually changed this into a discussion of
ideas. Please keep it that way, if you appreciate that I follow-up to your
messages.