HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:15:36 -0500 
From: Joseph S Ligon <jl8f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Life extension debate coming up in my flat?




>>Also don't you think that if ultimately this was possible and birth rates
>>  decreased you'd be limiting change and society would become stagnant
>>  without input from the next generations <-- which would add to
>>  experience and all the inbetweens would be lost!

>Glad you brought that up - I've agonized over it many a time.
>That's what SPACE is for. This whole "limit the population" thing is
>only valid while we are stuck on earth. Once we move into outer space -
>no such limits need exist.

This is a good point, IF the universe is infinite.  I realize it seems
strange to say that the universe might be finite, clearly there isn't a
wall somewhere that marks "the end of the universe".  But some
physicists (I think Einstein first proposed this) think the universe is
finite in the sense that after a certain amount of space is traversed,
it repeats itself.  In this scenario, time would also be required to
repeat itself because in a finite universe there are a finite number of
possible arrangements of the particles in the universe (assuming there
is a smallest unit of space that cannot be divided into smaller units). 
Once a particular arrangement repeats itself, the universe will have
reached the same state twice, and hence the same moment in time.  Not
that this scenario is necessarily correct, but it is a possibility.  The
amount of time and space required for repetition is, in any case, large
enough to not impose any serious limits on the population.   

-Scott Ligon
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
From: mason@cis.umassd.edu (Mason L. Bliss)
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:55:51 GMT

In <1992Nov9.044003.25837@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> sgreever@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steven Greever) writes:

>The more I look at people's postings about the problems of the world in our
>Industrial Society, I keep thinking, perhaps we have forgotten the
>techings of Jesus.  We must recognize Jesus as our true savior as always
>to lead us into the divine light of revelation.  Yet what do you people 
>practice: Ugliness, Deviance, Delinquency.  Jesus can show you all your
>true path in life, and then maybe you can all co-operate and be friendly
>with each other in industry.

Keep your offensive preaching to yourself! And, while we're at it, if you are
so righteous, why do you read this group?
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|    What diabolical chicken stepped on your forehead and sat on your chin?   |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 \          Mason L. Bliss <mason@cis.umassd.edu> is watching you.           /
  \_________________________________________________________________________/





Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.society.futures
From: kxh16@po.CWRU.Edu (Kathleen Hardy)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Women in CP/Industria
Date: 15 Nov 1992 23:58:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: kxh16@po.CWRU.Edu (Kathleen Hardy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) says:

>KH>     Sure we are. Haven't you ever listened to women discussing
>  >     men, makeup, hair, clothes, fashion, soap operas? I'm willing
>
>Careful here, you're stereotyping :)
	Actually, no. :) I'm basing this on observation of other
	females I know - the more 'normal' ones I happen to live with,
	others that I have known, etc. Sure, they wander off on other
	things, but typical content deals with less than highly
	educational topics. There there's me and the people I talk to - 
	psychology theories, gaming, cyberpunk, and whether or not
	wind chill factor affects the freezing point of water. ;)
>Seriously though, I agree that _people_ are obsessive.  The direction of this
>argument is such that the nature of the obsessions have a different value for
>mens vs. womens.  The obsessions of men (in this case technical knowledge) 
>outweigh the value of the obsessions of the women (pick your favorite example
>from your list) based on the measure created by society.  But that's sort
>of off-topic.
	Actually, I think that's right on topic. The area of obsession
	that's considered acceptable is to a large extent set by society.
	I know *I* get weird looks when I demonstrate that I know perfectly
	well how to work networking software, hook up a computer, etc.
>While I'm at it, would you like peace on earth, good will towards men, and a
>cure for the common cold? :)
	Go fer it. ;)
>It's great that you have a penchant for computers (assumed that you do).  But
	Would I be here if I weren't? :)
>that makes you something of an anomoly (sp?) in our current society. 
	Pffooo.... don't remind me....
>Major changes in the mental makeup of society are interesting to think about, 
>but really don't exist except as amassed groups of tiny changes.  As I stated 
>elsewhere, social change is rarely achieved in any positive way by major 
>upheaval.  It occurs best in large numbers of small ways.  Shaping, a 
>therapy techique of the behaviorists, gets some of the best results of any.
>It's method is small changes, but keep pushing for the goal.
	Shaping, however, can be long and tedious, and does tend to be 
	1) subtle and 2) easily sabotaged. There was a study a few
	years ago (I can post the particulars if someone wants them)
	that found that people tend to fit into the role expected of
	them (there's another one called the Stanford Prison Expt.
	that goes into more detail on it).
>Just my thoughts on this at 4:50am.  Thanks for your time.
	Hey, thanks for yours, too. :)

Kitten
Life is a sexually transmitted disease. - R.G.
-- 
Do you like the dark?
Do you like the way it moves?
Do you come alive when neon kills the sun?
From: system@korova.freeside.com (razorback)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: golden rule
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 17:24:07 CST
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783

every rule has a paradox and/or contradiction that belongs to it.

including this one.

squid

**************************************************************************
        the official "i CANT BELIEVE its not a REAL POLITICIAN!!"
                                headquarters
me@korova.rivdell.com   *this human form/where i was born/i now repent*
From: v067rcyf@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (AARDVARK)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: WhatIs all This?
Summary: an info search
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:25:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <22580@drutx.ATT.COM>, mjb1@drutx.ATT.COM (BurrJ) writes...
> 
>Please let me know if anybody knows where I can get any firesigne theatre
>albums or tapes 
>I originally herd dont step on that dwarf hand me the pliers and have
>loved them from then.
> 

>-------------------------------------------------------
God's final message to his creation...
           _not_
>Gods last words to the universe...
>        We apologise for the inconvience.
>HGTTG
>------------------------------------------------------

sorry, i'm feeling anal today
------------------------------------------aardvark (rising)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: PENJOHW@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Agrippa on bbs?
Organization: Yale University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 22:48:19 EST

I read in the New York Times today (11-18-92, p. C26) that W. Gibson's novel
"Agrippa" A Book of the Dead" will be available on a "limited number of
computer bulletin boards."  Although the publisher, K. Begos, stated that
(according to the NYT) "those are also encoded so that the program will destroy
itself after each person reads it," I assume that any such "encoding" will be
burned immediately and that the novel will be made available on the net.  My
questions: When?  Where? How? Will anyone send >>  PENJOHW@YALEVM  <<  bitnet
address -- a copy / instructions?  I might note that my family read
Neuromancer aloud while driving to a family funeral..., so please don't
trash a note from an infrequnt reader of this group
Thanks greatly in advance; make war not love... John Pendleton, New Haven CT
Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 17:45:46 -0500 
From: Patrick C Leger <pl1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: cyberpunk at the arcades

Excerpts from netnews.alt.cyberpunk: 20-Nov-92 Re: cyberpunk at the
arcades by Bryce Koike@sdcc13.ucsd. 
>         Sigh, me sitting here on my damned high horse preaching
> morality to the thousands.  I'm pitiful, I know.  (No, I'm not
> conservative.  But I prefer things to be done with some sort of
> logic and in a tasteful manner.  Oh well!)
>  
I feel the same way...Sex and violence are used nowadays simply as cheap
selling points.  Probably due to a severe lack of original ideas which
would attrack a market.  Have a bland movie?  Throw in a big gun and
some breasts and it'll be a box-office hit...Pretty sad.  Pretty damn
sad.

Chris

--------------
Disclaimer:  If anything I have said has offended you, I promise not to
infringe on your right to just look away from the screen and ignore what
I'm saying.
From: kxh16@po.CWRU.Edu (Kathleen Hardy)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Neuromancer: Movie
Date: 23 Nov 1992 00:13:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: kxh16@po.CWRU.Edu (Kathleen Hardy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, pl1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Patrick C Leger) says:
>Excerpts from netnews.alt.cyberpunk: 21-Nov-92 Neuromancer: Movie by Mr
>C D Ward@csv.warwick. 
>> Who is going to do the cyberspace scenes, will it be left to one of the
>> giants, such as industrial light and magic, or should some of the smaller
>> production companies be let loose. the smaller company may not have the
>> manpower, but they might produce a better result, perhaps being closer
>> to the ideas that the book is about??
>>  
>I'd say give it to ILM, or maybe some company into simulations.  Pretty
>much anyone with a lot of time, money, and a few nice Silicon Graphics
	If Abel were still around, or Omni, or even WDP, I'd say them - 
	small, good people, possibly not quite as expensive. However, due to
	mergers and bankruptcy, none of them are around anymore. Bleah.
	DemoGraFX is, but I'm not sure if they're as much graphics oriented
	as Omni and WDP (founded by the same people) were. But Abel did
	really really really good stuff.... 

Kitten
-- 
Do you like the dark?
Do you like the way it moves?
Do you come alive when neon kills the sun?
From: aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Steven J.)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Date: 22 Nov 1992 04:48:49 GMT
Organization: Jobs With Peace at UWM
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.30

Cyberpunks for Jesus?!?  I think this is getting out of hand, don't you?


______________________________________________________
Steve J. White
my virtual spheres of consciousness can be reached at:
aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu
aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: cyberpunk at the arcades
From: Macbeth@cardinal.sc107.wesleyan.edu (Macbeth)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:54:08 GMT
 181628.9082@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <92328.002601AHACC@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Organization: Wesleyan University, Middletown, CT USA

In article <92328.002601AHACC@ASUACAD.BITNET> <AHACC@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>Subject: Re: cyberpunk at the arcades
>From: <AHACC@ASUACAD.BITNET>
>Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 00:26:01 MST

>Jason says:
>=========================================================================
>It's the trend.  Look at television and movies.  They are steadily
>heading towards more and more violence (sex, too, I predict pornographic
>video games within 5 years), and that violence is spilling over
>=========================================================================

>     As several people have mentioned, "pornographic" video games
>are already here.  If the adultish games like Leisure Suit Larry aren't
>explicit enough, try some of the shareware stuff like Simusex, an
>early attempt at VR sex.  A lot of explicitly sexual elements are
>already included in many of the arcade games with which we are familiar.

Now, now, now, Simusex is by far NOT VR! Not just because you are supposed 
to get horny while watching stupid animations of a woman performing felatio 
to this "floating" penis, does not mean it is VR. It is this form of usage 
of the word VR (Virtual Reality) which makes it so difficult to explain. 
Now, if someone came out with a method to stimulate your neurons and your 
nerves in such a manner that you can actually "feel" a sexual act, then, 
yes, we could call it VR.

>     This, however is far from a new trend.  Way, way back, right after
>the release of the early arcade game pioneers Pong and Space Invaders
>(of which some of you may have heard ...) a guy in Califoria began
>marketing a game called "Erogenous Zone."  While the distribution of
>the game was pretty much limited to California and fewer than 200 machines
>were produced, this was certainly the first foray of explicit sex in
>the video arcade.  The two-player game pitted one person, controlling
>a fleet of sperm, against an adversary guarding an egg with a tube of
>spermicide.
>---
>                                  -Devlyn Syde
>                                  <AHACC@ASUACAD>
>                                  <AHACC@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU>

Not only that, there were various "home-brew" programs with a similar idea. 
For example, a fellow student at the university programmed a game, somewhere 
in the 80s, in Basic which is called "Emission Impossible." The player is a 
little sperm that has to wiggle its way through spermicide infested 
colonies, through the vagina, to the ovum and thus fertilize the egg. 
Although the idea is very "sexually" motivated, it is not an idea that has 
not been used before, for example with games such as Star Gate (1984). Maybe 
we need another Freud to tell us how sexual King's Quest is.

							Greetings,

							Macbeth
From: mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Women in CP/Industria
Date: 20 Nov 92 11:16:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The MATRIX BBS - Birmingham, AL - 205-323-2016
Reply-To: mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) 

SJ> mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) writes:
  > : OK.
  > : I just go a wad of mail, and am replying in turn.  If this thread has ext
  > : past my personal view of it so far, just douse my head in napalm and toss
  > : match.
  > : 
: DS> Another factor that is really more prevalent in private BBS's than USENET
:   > that a lot of men consider women-in-cyberspace as nothing more than poten
:   > chewtoys.
SJ> : 
  > : WHAT?  Please expound...
  > : I belong to one of the larger BBS's in the country, and I get all the mai
  > : board non-private mail, as well as a large number of conferences (this on
  > : for instance).  I have yet to see any evidence that indicates that any ma
  > : this or any of the 15 or so other boards I regularly call are looking for
  > : rawhide bone.  This statement in itself is terribly sexist.
  > : I'm afraid I'm gonna need some clarification on that point.

SJ> I think what is being addressed here is what does indeed happen on
  > multi-line BBS's of a chat-system nature.  There are two such systems here
  > in Milwaukee and, yes, women who call in are subjected to a certain amount
  > of harrassment by the male users who are very much the majority.  Also,
  > there is a certain amount of sexual harrassment that exists on the system I
  > am currently working on.  Occasionally some male users feel it necessary to
  > look for female users on the system, hassle them with write messages and
  > then send them e-mail through ways in which it becomes increasingly
  > difficult to track down the source.  This happens on at least a monthly
  > basis here.  If this isn't sexual abuse, if not at least sexual harrassment
  > then what is?

Wow, sorry about their plight.  Boot the shitheads off the system if it
comes to that.  But I'm still afraid you've made a generalization that
you have only backed up with one (maybe 2) examples.  More evidence
is necessary before making such a statement.  I've put out a call for it
here, you should there.  When you get results, post them and we'll talk 
about it then.  Should take me a few weeks to get people off their cans :)

-Mykel


 -- SPEED 1.20 [NR]: "Mykel Wins!"

Xref: sparky alt.cyberpunk:5821 alt.industrial:763 alt.sex:36356 alt.sex.bondage:22101
Organization: University of Maryland at Baltimore
Date: Monday, 16 Nov 1992 09:11:50 EST
From: Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
 <1992Nov11.084054.20306@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
 <BxKIrq.G9u@news.cso.uiuc.edu>

cwf50862@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (The Last Bard), Chip, writes:

>  I think some of you who have posted have misconceptions of the bible and
Jesus
>  but then It might be just me.  Jesus was capable of love, we are not.<my
opinion>  Why do you think so many marriages fail becaus
>  Perhaps you have heard of the the shortest verse in the Bible, "Jesus wept."
>  Wow, he shows grief when his friend dies, intresting, it would seem that he
>  felt some sort of friendship and love toward his friend (Lazarus).  The
>  following verse is "Then the Jews said, 'See how he loved him!'"  Now don't
>  forget that the jews generally were skeptical of Jesus and therefore this
>  statement is signifigant.
>
> I am not going to force my beliefs on you it isn't fair to you as humans.  BUT
> I do want yo to informed and intellectually honest with youselves.  If you
> spout off half truths of the Bible as percieved through your own rosey glasses
> then you are and idiot <of course the great thing about america is that even
> idiots can speak),  I am not calling you an idiot, I don't know you, and you

The problem is not so much the Bible itself, as the interpretations of the
Bible that have come about since and used as method of oppressing women,
homosexuals, and non-Christians.  American Indians, Buddhists, and Hindus
are totally divorced from the JudeoChristian tradition, through no fault
of their own.  The ultra-literal interpretations of the Bible hold that
these people are damned.  I can't accept that.

Did anyone see _The Rapture,_ by the way?  (I know this is far from
cyberpunk talk, but it's a great film!)

Bob
From: S_SAMSO@iravcl.ira.uka.de (|S| Hermann Samso)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Neuromancer: Movie
Date: 23 Nov 1992 15:44:03 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe (FRG) - Informatik Rechnerabt.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: irav22.ira.uka.de
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23


 I may well be the only one who thinks so, but the only thought of having
 a Neuromancer movie makes me puke! NOT that I am blaming the ones who
 would like a Neuromancer movie... it's just my bad experience with book
 to movie conversions: none of them (at least the conversions I've
 seen) had any comparision with the book. Take as an example The Never
 Ending Story, the film would have been great... if I only hadn't read the
 book before... it was sooo different to what I had imagined when reading
 the book. I wouldn't like that it happened the same with Neuromancer, and
 the better the book is (and Neuromancer is certainly one of my favourites)
 the greater the probability that I get disappointed with the movie...
 IF there had to be a movie of it, then I would recommend totaly unknown
 players for the casting, faces that we don't already know and that we can
 forget as fast as possible, so that we can retain our own imaginations.
 As for the music it should have great variety and once again (it's my
 opinion) of not too well known/commercial bands.
  
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: lnosek@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Luke Nosek)
Subject: Re: Life extension debate coming up in my flat?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 07:32:30 GMT

>What do you hope to attain with this super extended lifespan enlightenment?

Try to write down all the things that you'd like to do in life.
You'd come up with a list to fill hundreds of years.

>the invention of the next 105 sex positions? <---not relevant I guess but my

I wonder if we would get bored of sex after living so long - I mean if you think
about it, sex is pretty monotonous - just the same old mutual stimulation of the
brain's pleasure centers. There are plenty more interesting things to do.

>  What can you discover in 600 years that can't be discovered in 50-70.

Today - there is so much knowledge that noone can ever hope to know but a
fraction of it. Isn't discovering more of this knowledge worth it?

>Also don't you think that if ultimately this was possible and birth rates
>  decreased you'd be limiting change and society would become stagnant
>  without input from the next generations <-- which would add to
>  experience and all the inbetweens would be lost!

Glad you brought that up - I've agonized over it many a time.
That's what SPACE is for. This whole "limit the population" thing is only
valid while we are stuck on earth. Once we move into outer space - no such
limits need exist.

>  _all_ the population living on, reduced birth rate, less _variety_ of
>  human experience or a slowing down of the creation of that variety
>  _part_ of the people living on, unbalanced power relations, more of the
>  same

But you also have to realize that allowing more time for life would give
each of us more time to experience and learn a VARIETY of things. We would
be able to create more interesting, better, things.

>ramble ramble

(the gist of the rambling seems to be that sufferring can never be eliminated)

Yes, but as we live longer, we seem to be able to handle suffering better.

>Rapists murderers? What _do_ you want to preserve?

Also more time for them to learn that they must reform their ways.
Most crimes are committed by young adults.

>Also would life be as intense an experience?

Life allways seems to be intense.

>Why would quality change for the _overall_ better just because of
>increased quantity? um um

yes.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,rec.arts.sf.written
From: ib09@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig)
Subject: modern space opera (was: Diamond-hard SF)
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:53:24 GMT

In article <Uf2FP6C00WCZ8iA1s4@andrew.cmu.edu>, Patrick C Leger <pl1u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Nor can I stand "space operas" anymore, after reading
>cyberpunk.  Yeah, I realize that they've got different purposes, come
>from different times and backgrounds, but I've just picked up this thing
>for well-written realism...

Try and check out Iain Bank's "Consider Phlebas" and "Use of Weapons".
These two books have convinced me that it is possible this day and age
to write space opera with enough clout to make just about anyone sit up.
Highly recommended.

Anything else written in this vein today?
-- 
Thomas Koenig, ib09@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de, ui0t@dkauni2.bitnet
The joy of engineering is to find a straight line on a double logarithmic
diagram.