From: richard@octel.com (Richard Karasik)
Subject: Re: frontrubs
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:21:48 GMT

Of course your mileage will vary ...

20 years ago I learned several flavors of massage - among them -esalen style,
an swedish style. The esalen style is typified by a wholistic sensing of the body.
 I would say "sensual" but that is too often misinterpreted. It means a feast
 of the sense for sight sound touch, taste etc etc. Often fresh aromatic herbs and
 flowers were kept nearby for interjecting a pleasant "high note" during massage, or
 even a bowl of fresh strawberries for taste. People today use incense etc etc.
 We would even keep drapes of several different textures -ie coarse, soft, cool
 crisp etc to use -altho there was precious littel draping done or being asked for.

 Swedish I would characterize by a good therapeutic style to relieve sore aching 
 muscles etc etc. Esalen seemd to relax sore aching minds as well ...

 Now the remaining answers are going to be in two heads - one from the late 60's 
 and esalen wholistic based, and one from what I believe is present practice on
 paying clients in a regular business.

>
>>Okay, I'd like to know what everybody thinks of massaging the breasts
>>during a (non-erotic!) full body massage.


First lets distinguish massage from manipulate ... to massage is to press, knead
rub etc muscles (ie through the skin ::)) or other areas of the body -noticeably
skin to increase circulation or reduce tension. That is a basic brief cold clinical
definition. 
  The breast is hardly a muscle. However in many cases depending on the size of the
  breast and its positiononing on the body, it can hide the pectorals, the
  intercostals, and several major lymphatic and neuro muscular points (none of the
  latter are from esalen or strict swedish tho ..) It can also hide the major
  connective ligaments of the ribs to the sternum.

  Now manipulate means to operate by skilled (note emphasis on skilled) use of the
  hands.

  SO now the important point -you have to have to involve your client in his/her
  massage. If the person is there for a theraputic massage becaues of muscle cramps
  in his/her legs -it hardly makes sense to ask if you should work the breasts
  (intentional crassness implied). If on the other hand the person is A) new to
  massage and/or wants to know what all the possibilities are, B) Very well known to
  you -ie a friend C) Brings up the subject of types of massage etc et or 
  any of many other things then you have an option. IE if you CHOOSE not to delve
  into breast, genital area massage then you should make that known right up front
  in as unthreatening a manner as possible.

  If on the other hand part of your therapy is to - for example do Chakra balancing
  and other pressure point techniques, then it will be hard to work the bottom-most
  chakra without ending up somewhere in the immediate vicinity of some genitals -and
  you should make that known also.

  Today's schools primarily avoid these areas and hence most modern massage
  practitioners avoid the areas entirely - I find this unsatisfactory for several
  reasons.

	A) If you are into having a whoilistic massage - then your mind is tracking the
	therapists movements. You can tell better than he/she which areas have been
	included, and touched just right -and here the emphasis is on inclusion and touch.
	Thus if you feel a long slow stroke up the leg cut out somehwere around an inch
	and 1/2 above the knee, --there is a mental hole in the massage. You will
	run your mind over that hole in the same way that a tongue will find 
	a rough spot in a tooth.  Your whole experience of the massage could be warped
	by noticing this abject avoidance of certain areas. 

	In general it is not good practice to manipulate or massage genitals -save for
	foreplay with a SO -and that is entirely different than what we are discussing
	here. However it is possible to include the general area in such a way as to
	give the person the effect of having included everything -discretely, and
	courteously. This includes using a drape tucked between the legs, and then
	massaging up to the insertion of the sartorious for example (groin area). Thuis
	the genitals are not touched, but the pelvic joint is ... and so on.

	Most schools do not teach this because it is oncet again too possible to
	misinterpret this. --Again -talk with your client about his/her needs and
	your style.

	With breasts, you may indicate that you will move them around on the chest (ie
	manipulate) carefully in order to work the underlying muscles. Some people say
	-ok others will not care to have this happen -ask ask ask..

	In terms of touching, you primarily use the sides of the hand to move the breast
	aside, while working intercostals, etc with finger tips.

	The primary thing here is to give the client a sense of connectedness, and of
	having his/her whole being included usually by long flowing  strokes -
	connecting one region to another -ie ankle to calf to hip to abdomen .etc

	B) All of what Ive said is also true for swedish, except in swedish the touch is
	more intense, so you have to be careful that you are not too intense in areas
	that don't normally get much touch -ie groin and breast.
> 
All that said and done -some clients will ask for damn near anything to be stroked
.. - I do not consider the breast a genital (you and your client's milage may vary)
and so will comply. I do stop at the
suggestion of genital massage and ask the client what he/she thinks the intention of
this session is. Being very straightforward -rather than flustered goes a long way
to weeding out people that just don't know and who will cooperate with you
as you run your practice from those that are out for cheap thrills at your expense.

You can easily indicate that you do not provide various services, and suggest the
client leaves, or accept what you have to offer. Most people that push limits
a bit will sober up and just accept a massage -others you have to kill ;-)
 
>Bill, the therapists I know say they do not usually massage women's 

Primarily because they haven't been trained. A good place to start is to practice
with a woman friend doing a simple breast exam -getting feedback on touch, pressure
etc. The lady I learned from also taught the following:
  A) leaving the breast in-place and starting at the armpit juncture -use 
  a simple stepping of the fingers in an ever decreasing spiral around the breast
  several times -ending ultimately at the nipple. On the right breast go
  clockwise, and on the left breast go counter clockwise.

  B) make a cage of the fingers over the breasts (right hand right breast etc)
  and move the main tissue mass in circles to the right, to the left, counter
  rotating (right hand circles right left hand circles left and then vice versa)

  C) If there is a lot of breast tissue, it may take two hands to do the latter.

> 
>Many female therapists to whom I have gone also avoid my breasts.  (I am, 
>as my name suggests, mail.)  *Every* profesional therapist, of course, 
>avoids genital massage, taking special care to drape the reproductive area.

That is only because that is what has been trained into today's 100 hour wonders
  including 10 hours of business practice .... Anything else is looked
  on as lewd and lacivious behavious and will probably get you arrested.
  In general, that is not the case -ie 100 hour wonders are not trained to do this
  so they don't. As you study many other techniques, you will find that some
  work the genital area and others don't. It depends on the effect desired
  (theraputic not silly-assed smile all over your face) and the TRUST between
  client and practitioner. I have worked with several clients  a few with
  urethral stenosis, and others with various reproductive issues -including
  reversed vasectomies. Needless to say these were not massage seesions but more
  theraputic touch session -and surprisingly almost all had their clothes on 
  - yet some involved work in the genital areas .. SO you pays your money -talk to
  your clients and see what rolls on ..  By the way the latter cases were of limited
  response - two of the urethral stenosis people got better -up until then
  they had been having catheters shoved up their urethra  about once a week
  and expanded to try and stretch the urethra. The various reproductive
  issues were a mixed bag -but in all cases the people felt better about who
  they were in the matter.


  However, genitals are not usually avoided for that reason -they simply aren't
  muscle - even if they do feel good -and they are usually significant areas in
  the clinical sense of significance. Hence if you mess with them you
  probably have to take on everything that person has stored about them,
  and believe me that is more than you want to handle on even an irregular basis.


Rub on 
RIchard
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