From: daveh@frackit.UUCP (Dave Hultberg)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Je
Summary: fishy sounding story
Keywords: story sounds fishy
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:15:54 GMT
Organization: Esoteric Tribble Factory, Harrisburg, PA

In article <1992Sep04.031309.130060@zeus.calpoly.edu>, jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester) writes:

> This is what was reported to me first hand by him.  Now, either you are
> calling me a liar or you are calling my friend a liar.  I do not appreciate
> either claim.

I think you need to go back and reread what I said.  I didn't accuse
either of you are lying.  It just seems to me that some of the details
got twisted as the story was passed from your friend to you to us.  

> And from what I've seen of the Order of the Arrow and
> Scouting in general (having been involved in both), I don't find the story
> hard to believe at all.  There were a number of leaders and memebers in both
> organizations when I was involved that were so wrapped up in their own
> self-importantance that I could easily see them over-stepping the bounds
> when they felt they needed to (whether or not they were right).
>

Now the above I can certainly agree with.  Scouts and Scouters are human
and like all organizations we have those who are overly impressed with
their own importance.  The problem with your original posting was that
it left the impression that this was some sort of standard procedure for
disciplining Scouters.  If some Scouters, who also happened to be OA
members summoned your friend to a kangaroo court and demanded his
resignation, then that was clearly outside of BSA rules and policies.   

> The point of the article, however, was not to engender pity for my friend,
> but rather to show how BSA is wasting talent and ability that it already has
> by rudely kicking them out for no reason other than fear and a sense of
> "moral indignation".

It is still not clear to me that BSA as an organization did this do your
friend or a group of vidilantes did it on their own.  It doesn't really
matter in his case since the end result is the same.  Until the
Executive Board of BSA votes to change the policy excluding gays and
athesists, Scouters who are found to be gay will be dismissed from the
organization.

Another point that we need to emphasize is that a unit level Scouter can
be removed from a Pack, Troop, Post, etc. at any time with no appeal
rights by the chartering organization and they don't even have to have a
reason.  So even if you do get national to remove the ban on gays, there
is no guarantee that chartering organizations, the majority of whom are
churches, will ever approve the registration of a gay leader.  In my
personal situation, my unit is sponsored by the PTO.  My wife was
defeated while running for re-election in a bitter fight with a
candidate backed by the principle.  The new president of the PTO could
have me removed as Cubmaster and there isn't a thing I could do about
it.
  
Dave Hultberg, Cubmaster Pack 196, Keystone Area Council
Eagle Scout Class of '67, Valley Forge Council

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