From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Eire, Ireland? (Was Re: Separation vs. integration)
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 13:52:30 GMT

In article <tahonen.27@katk.Helsinki.FI>, tahonen@katk.Helsinki.FI (Timo
Ahonen) writes:

|>In article <1992Jul24.180903.9800@news.nd.edu>
|>ulick@chopin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
|>
|>>In article <1992Jul24.092851.20554@dscomsf.desy.de>
|>hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
|>>>|>
|>>>|>Firstly, a correction.  Eire is a Gaelic word and is oncorrect
|>(in
|>>>|>Irish
|>>>|>courts, anyway) when used in an English sentence.  
|>>>
|>>>It's what the country calls itself. The English language is known
|>for
|>>>it's ability to absorb such foriegn words as `bungalow' which you
|>would
|>>>have known wer you au fait with it. The Irish courts are not an
|>arbiter
|>>>of the English language.
|>>>
|>
|>>My, you are an arrogant little bastard.  We all know that the English
|>have a
|>>God given right to abuse their language whatever way they think fit,
|>e.g.
|>>not pronouncing r's and occasionaly h's and using vowals sounds that
|>make
|>>linguists shudder, but I was trying to correct a non English speaker,
|>a
|>>Finn, that Irish people do not like the word Eire, which is Gaelic,
|>being
|>>used as a synomyn for the 26 counties in English sentences.  Eire
|>means
|>>Ireland, which is the entire island, and is the official name for
|>the
|>>country as Gaeilge and it implies a claim on the whole Ireland, and
|>>menas the exact same as Ireland does in English, which is the word
|>that 
|>>should be used when speaking English. If you want to imply Ireland
|>as
|>>the 26 counties, please use the expression `Irish republic'.
|>
|>This is exactly what I originally wanted to imply in my posting: I
|>referred 
|>to the Republic of Ireland as Eire since I felt that plain Ireland
|>would 
|>have been taken as a geographical term, and being a lazy bugger didn't
|>want 
|>to write the Republic of Ireland in full. Also this is the way Eire is
|>|>quite often used in at least Finnish texts when the above mentioned
|>|>distinction is wanted to be clear. As another poster wrote, also
|>some 
|>dictionaries use the word in the same way. But... it sure wasn't the
|>main 
|>point in my posting, so I won't argue about it any longer. The point
|>taken 
|>into account.

Could I just add that this was my impression of what the poster
intended. I took offence at Ulicks offensive "correction", especialy
since he followed it up with an attack on the "evil" British colonials
which he delivered in the same tone as ARF delivers his harangues about
secret rabbi taxes etc. 

Finaly I would just point out that carelessness in refering to other
countries is rather endemic in English. When people refer to the USA as
America they do not receive diatribes about the evils of Coln. Custer
etc.  Equaly, there has been quite a bit of carelessness in applying
some names, eg IRAQ and IRAN which are both the same arabic word
pronounced a bit differently.

Surrendering control over language to people who wish to use it for
political ends is a very dangerous thing. 


Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: soc.rights.human,misc.legal,alt.activism