HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Ecologies Wanted
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:20:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov23.172026.23983
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon

Well, as I said before, "Courtship Rite" by Kingsbury and "Dune" by
HErbert have got to be the best I have _Ever_ seen on the subject, but
here are some others:

Paul Parks "Soldiers of Paradise", "Sugar Rain", and "The Cult of Loving-
kindness". Velikovskianism, facultative polymorphism, and the French F---
ing Revolution by gum. The man is a genius.

John Brunner. Many books, but "Bedlam Planet" and "Total Eclipse come
to mind first of all.

Marion Zimmer Bradley. "The World Wreckers". Not exactly what you're
looking for, but close.

Frank Herbert. "Seed Stock". A short story but brilliant in its treatment
of humans and alien ecology. Also, maybe, "The Dosadi Experiment".

Lois Bujold. "Ethan of Athos". Includes a nice treatment of the ecology
of a space station.

Robert Heinlein. "Farmer in the Sky". How do you build an ecology from
absolute scratch, bupkiss, nada?

Sheri Tepper. "Northshore"  and "Southshore" (aka "The Awakeners"). Nicely
developed ecology with a few dark Malthusian twists.

Ursula LeGuin. "The Word for World is Forest". More the effect of environment
on people, but it's close to what you're looking for. Similarly "Vaster
than Empires and More Slow" which has an interesting and unique ecology.

C.J. Cherryh "40,000 in Gehenna" and possibly "Serpent's Reach".

Larry Niven "Ringworld" and "The Ringworld Engineers". More planetology than
ecology, but very good nonetheless.

Boy, that's a long list, but they're all good, and they all have what you're
looking for or something very close. BTW forget Gerrold's "War against the
Cthorr" and Card's "Speaker for the Dead" for your purposes. In both 
interesting ecological questions are asked, but the authors have made some
serious mistakes IMMHO.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Ellner  todd@reed.edu 
"What has the study of biology taught you about the Creator Dr. Haldane?"
JBS Haldane:"I'm not sure, but He seems to be inordinately fond of beetles."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ted@usasoc.soc.mil (Ted Nolan)
Subject: Re: SF for kids and teens?
Organization: SRI International, Ft. Bragg NC
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:52:34 GMT


OK, I'll bite:

	1) Heinlein of course.  My favorites were always _Space Cadet_,
	   _Citizen of the Galaxy_, _Startship Troopers_ (only marginally
	   a "juvenile"), _Have Spacesuit, Will Travel_,  and
	   _The Rolling Stones_.

	2) Alan E. Nourse.  Both his "Hospital Earth" milleu and some of his
	   individual stories.  In particular, I must have read _Raiders From
	   the Rings_ at least 50 times (literally).  I also have fond memories
	   of _Scavengers in Space_ (I think that's right..), _Trouble on
	   Titan_, and especially _The Universe Between_.

	3) Andre Norton. Norton's universe has a rather different slant
	   for a youngster.  There are strict limits on everything.  Power
	   packs run out, lifeboats crash..  A lot of her stuff left me cold,
	   but there were some that knocked me for a loop.  First and foremost:
	   _The Zero Stone_ and the followup _Uncharted Stars.  Then, 
	   _The Stars are Ours_ and _The Last Planet_.

	4) Lester Del Ray.  Who can forget _The Runaway Robot_, in which an
	   accident in manufacturing somehow gives a robot free will.  He also
	   did an entertaining alternate earths book about a boy following his
	   inventor father across multiple timelines (the name, unfortunately,
	   escapes me.)

	5) Ben Bova.  Several of his Neanderthals in space, weather workers
	   on Titan books got filed in juveniles at my library at least.
	   My favorite was _Starguard_.

	6) Doc Smith.  Not written as juveniles, but the teen ages are probably
	   the best time to hit them.  I've heard so many negative comments in
	   later years, that I've been scared to re-read, but at the time,
	   oh what marvels!

	7) Asimov.  His Lucky Starr stories are not his best work, but they
	   are entertaining, and it's interesting to see him working with 
	   concepts he later refined.

	8) Burroughs.  Like Doc Smith, it may be best to first meet John Carter
	   as a teen.  _A Princess of Mars_ is the classic and prototype of
	   course.
	   


For the younger set:

	1) The Space Cat books by Ted Key (?)

	2) The Freddie the Pig books (by ?)

	3) The Mrs. Pickerel books


And just because I have to throw it in:

	_Up Periscope_ by somebody White.  It's not SF, but for a Kid in the
	60s, a WWII submarine comes pretty close, and it was one of my all time
	favorites.



				Ted Nolan
				ted@usasoc.soc.mil

I'm sure I'll think of more just after posting this...

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.cyberpunk
From: aaron@space.ualberta.ca (Aaron Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Diamond-hard SF
Reply-To: aaron@space.ualberta.ca
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:15:31 GMT

[Nick Szabo calls for fiction free of 'mundane' characters and plot elements,
with an exciting idea on every page.]

There's a reason why "mundane" fiction has all those characters and plot
elements and things.  Simply put, they are as little as you can get away with
in writing good fiction.  You can put in more, like SF writers do(and I use
SF in the broaded possible sense here), but you can't take out those mundane
elements of plot and character without getting rid of the fiction part.
Admittedly, there are elements of plot and character not used much in
mainstream fiction, that fit much better into an SF background.  But I don't
think, either, that using 'mundane' elements will ruin an SF story.

But then, Asimov's is my favourite magazine, so we probably have completely
incompatible viewpoints here.

--
---Alfvaen(Looking for "October's Baby")
"Lucille was secretly thrilled when Norman sucked her toaster."
   ---B. Kliban
Current Album--Handel:Water Music
Current Read--M.J. Engh:Arslan
From: dac@prolix.apana.org.au (Andrew Clayton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: ASH OCK - Christopher Hinz
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 13:21:42 GMT
Organization: More like Dis~, really.
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00 beta rel2

I'm almost finished reading _ASH OCK_, Hinz's sequel to _Liege
Killer_. Triffic book. Is there a sequel out? [I haven't read the
first book, but that hasn't made for any difficulties with _ASH
OCK_]

Oh, and it isn't diamond hard SF either, but it is damned good,
with some nice surprises [and even nasty ones] in the story, and
some diverse plot lines.

Dac
--
dac@prolix.apana.org.au              David Andrew Clayton.           // _| _  _
dac@prolix.sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au      Canberra, Australia           \X/ (_](_](_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dwl@watson.ibm.com (David W. Levine)
Subject: Re: Amber questoin:  Could Oberon still be alive?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:51:37 GMT
Reply-To: dwl@watson.ibm.com 
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center

In article <1992Nov18.111847.1@woods.ulowell.edu>,
steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
|> In article <1992Nov18.071723.154977@zeus.calpoly.edu>,
jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester) writes:
|> > Okay, I've read the first set of Amber books a few times, and I have a
|> > question that I was hoping someone could shed some light on.  Could Oberon
|> > still be alive?  Could he have made a deal with Dworkin and staged
a phoney
|> > funeral?  Could Brand have actually lied about seeing Dad die?  (As
if that
|> > would be any surprise?)  The question arises from some thoughts I've had
|> > towards a Amber Role-Playing campaign I'm working on...
|> 
|> I would doubt it.  Oberon was playing with the original pattern here.
Remember
|> what it did to Corwin, when he tried to make a copy of it?  The sheer
might of
|> the forces was probably too much for him and in the end finished him off.
|> 
|> -darkelf
|> -----
|> "I have no brother, am like no brother;
|>  And this word "love", which the greybeards call divine,
|>  Be resident in men like one another
|>  And not in me.  I am myself alone."
|> 	-Gloucester, Henry VI Pt. 3
|> -----

Zelazney's been very careful to keep the actual limits of the powers of 
people from both the house of Amber and the Courts very unclear. (Makes
sense if you are going to keep writing consistently) In terms of the
psychology, it makes a lot of sense. It's not terribly different from
his playing Ganelon to evaluate Corwin. 

If there's anything that bounds how much you are likely to believe it, it's
the Unicorn showing up and annointing Random as king. Unless you allow for
Oberon and the Unicorn to be co-conspirators, it doesn't work very well.

David W. Levine --  dwl@watson.ibm.com  -- IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center
                   -- My Opinions, IBM's hardware. -- 
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your
aim" - George Santayana  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.horror
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: origins of "ansible"
Date: 24 Nov 92 05:43:47 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cobra.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov22.061404.27926@leland.Stanford.EDU> wade@samish.stanford.edu (Elizabeth Wade) writes:
>
>Does anyone know the origins of the word "ansible"?

an'-si-ble: a.  Susceptible to standardization.

c
From: mc7f+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael P Collins)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: works of L. Ron Hubbard
Date: 23 Nov 92 04:25:43 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 21-Nov-92 Re: works of L. Ron
Hubbard by Ken Roth@david.wheaton.e 
> BUT, I loved the book Battlefield Earth, which I read three times.
> One of the reasons that I enjoyed it is that after the Earth folks free the
> earth, things get worse...you just can't win8-)

I never was able to get that far.  Somewhere around page 105 he mentions
that some character was "As happy as a Psychlo baby on a week-long diet
of Kerbango".  I threw the book out of my room and at an unfortunate
friend of mine who was wandering by at the time.  It's not that his work
isn't bad for trashy Golden Age SciFi, it's just that it NEVER ROSE
ABOVE trashy golden age SciFi.  
  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.cyberpunk
From: denebeim@brtph254.bnr.ca (Jay Denebeim P025)
Subject: Re: Diamond-hard SF
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:31:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.053145.3591@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo):
>>* What are the best works in this diamond-hard style?

I think Nick would like just about anything Robert L. Forward writes.
Of course, he does talk about human rather than robotic exploration of
the galaxy, which I don't think Nick much likes.
-- 
Jay Denebeim     Address: UUCP:     duke!wolves!deepthot!jay
                          Internet: jay@deepthot.cary.nc.us
                 BBS:(919)-460-7430      VOICE:(919)-460-6934
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:47:57 -0500 
From: "Andrew C. Plotkin" <ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SF for kids and teens?

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 23-Nov-92 SF for kids and
teens? Sandra_M_Lowe.Henr80@XER (386)

> I have searched my bibliographies and lists and have surprised myself that I
> don`t have a list of SF for kids and teens, or any books in my lists designated
> as juvenile.  So what I would like is a list of reccommendations for books for
the very young and for teens.  

A great many non-"juvenile" SF books are quite readable by kids and
teenagers. I think I had devoured all of Niven's stuff by age 13 or so.
(On the other hand, I couldn't make a dent in _Stars in My Pocket Like
Grains of Sand_.  :-)  Got to get back to that someday....)

Considering younger stuff: (10 to 13-ish, I think): 
Sylvia Louise Engdahl: Several books, in a couple serieses. _Enchantress
From the Stars_, _The Far Side of Evil_ are the titles I remember.
_EftS_ is the first of two books about an agent of an interstellar human
civilization, who has to work on less-advanced human planets without
violating a non-interference Prime Directive-type law. Extremely good.
Zilpha Snyder: a trilogy, styled as fantasy but with SF elements, I
think. _Below the Root_, _And All Between_, _After the Celebration_.
William Sleator: Many books. Warning: He's writing for kids, but he
doesn't pull any punches emotionally. Some of his books rival any
"adult" dystopian SF.
Daniel Pinkwater: Many books with SF content. Thoroughly silly.
Everybody loves his stuff.

I second the motion for Duane's "Wizard" books. For everybody. (Just
been reprinted, too.)

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
From: STU_AESHANK@VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: John J. Miller
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:31:59 GMT

Does anyone know if John J. Miller has written any other sci fi or fantasy
other than contributing to _Wildcards_?  The reason I am asking is because
I have enjoyed his characters in that series and was wondering if he has
written anything else.

AnJanette Shank
stu_aeshank@vax1.acs.jmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Re: Amber questoin:  Could Oberon still be alive?
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:18:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.071723.154977@zeus.calpoly.edu>, jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester) writes:
> Okay, I've read the first set of Amber books a few times, and I have a
> question that I was hoping someone could shed some light on.  Could Oberon
> still be alive?  Could he have made a deal with Dworkin and staged a phoney
> funeral?  Could Brand have actually lied about seeing Dad die?  (As if that
> would be any surprise?)  The question arises from some thoughts I've had
> towards a Amber Role-Playing campaign I'm working on...

I would doubt it.  Oberon was playing with the original pattern here.  Remember
what it did to Corwin, when he tried to make a copy of it?  The sheer might of
the forces was probably too much for him and in the end finished him off.

-darkelf
-----
"I have no brother, am like no brother;
 And this word "love", which the greybeards call divine,
 Be resident in men like one another
 And not in me.  I am myself alone."
	-Gloucester, Henry VI Pt. 3
-----
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
Subject: Re: Daniel K. Moran (was Re: Human Computers in SF--Help!)
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:45:50 GMT

In article <92328.132816DASBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> David Silberstein <DASBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>As long as we're on the
>subject, does anyone know the status of _The Ring_? 

Yes.  Amazingly enough, I am the proud owner of every book DKM has had
published.  Amazing, ain't it? :)

The first half of _The Ring_ was pretty good.  Then it got to be not good;
some of it was just boring.  (DKM says that the part I thought was good was
stuff he wrote independent of the screenplay, to give it background and
[presumably] make a longer book :).)

The movie was never made, and DKM says the project is "so completely dead"
that everyone who worked on it winces when it is brought up :).

-- 
Sean Eric Fagan  | "Time and space is a bitch!"
sef@kithrup.COM  |    -- Gooshie (Dennis Wolfberg),
-----------------+       "Quantum Leap:  Killin' Time"
Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Food for thought...
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 03:46:26 GMT


In blatant violation of FAQ #16, I offer the following thought
experiment (stolen from Brett Shefter, Yale '89):

What would happen if there were a fight between the (old show)
Star Trek red-shirts, who *always* get killed... and the Star
Wars stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of a barn?
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"When angry, count four. When very angry, swear."
                --Mark Twain
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:14932 alt.cyberpunk:5841 rec.arts.books:20220
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.cyberpunk,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Diamond-hard SF
Date: 17 Nov 1992 06:02:57 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cobra.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <BxtJ4w.FDs@techbook.com> szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov6.195713.14495@math.ucla.edu> dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:
>
>>I'm willing to read a so-so
>>written sf novel if it is full of original and startling ideas.
>
>I second this, and go further.  Characters and plot are the
>exemplar components of mundane fiction.  I do not care to see them 
>at all, unless they are important to the technology

Then why in hell do you read science fiction?  

Just curl up with a few volumes of _Scientific American_ and you
should be happy as a clam.

I like that word, though - "mundane."  

I suppose in the right circles it could serve as a deadly insult.
"You - you - GRR!  You - MUNDANE!"  The goal would be to entirely
eliminate "mundanity" from your life.  It wouldn't be easy but I think
it could be done.  A little omphaloskepsis goes a long way.  And when 
your navel begins to remind you of the grittiness of life you can
always pick up a copy of _Popular Science_, or whichever, and dream
of nuclear-powered vacuum cleaners and vacations on the moon.

Do you know of anyone else, Nick, who shares your views on this
delicate and fascinating subject?  I might yet find a market for that
damned consignment of Gernsback busts.

c
From: kayuucee@cvl.umd.edu (Kenneth W. Crist Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Harlan Ellison's short stories
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:27:00 GMT
Organization: Center for Automation Research, Univ. of Md.


	I am not a big Ellison fan, having read a few of his short stories
and finding them about average. However, I would like to read a certain
subset of his stories, those about the Earth-Kyber[sp?] War. I know that
he used elements of these stories in his screenplay for the OL episode: Demon
With A Glass Hand (starring Robert Culp).
	What I am looking for is either 1) information as to where a listing
of the relevent story titles might be, or, 2) a list of the titles
themselves. #1 will, of course, preclude someone from typing in the titles.
	If anyone is interested I can post any information to this newsgroup.

						Ken Crist
						kayuucee@cvl.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: Re: Food for thought...
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 07:53:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.034626.3231@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
>
>In blatant violation of FAQ #16, I offer the following thought
>experiment (stolen from Brett Shefter, Yale '89):
>
>What would happen if there were a fight between the (old show)
>Star Trek red-shirts, who *always* get killed... and the Star
>Wars stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of a barn?

You might as well ask the following:

	Take a buttered toast (you know, the type which *always*
	lands on the buttered side when dropped), tie it to the
	back of a cat (those animals who *always* land on their
	feet) and drop the construct.

	On which side does it land? Or does it float? Or does the
	entry in the FAQ make sense? :-)

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
From: pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: works of L. Ron Hubbard
Date: 22 Nov 92 22:23:40 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Hi...

In article <76275112092100424@FREDONIA>, BOOT1423@fredonia.BITNET ("Stephen M. Boothe") writes:
>Hello,
>       I would like to know what other sci-fi fans think of L. Ron Hubbard's
>works of science fiction.  I know that his founding of the Church of
>Scientology was controversial, but I am concerned with his merits as writer
>of science fiction.  Are his works worth reading? 

No.

---
Thus spake Kalmoth the Vile, Wielder of the Warhammer of Unduk.
-- 
Thus spake Kalmoth the Vile, Slayer of the Seven Pigs of the North.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: naam@cecer.army.mil (Ramez Naam)
Subject: Re: The best sf story ever
Organization: US Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Labs
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:03:07 GMT

I'd have to give my vote to _Hyperion_ by Dan Simmons for the best SF
story ever.

--
Ramez Naam
naam@lorax.cecer.army.mil
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: loki@netcom.com (James E Myers)
Subject: Re: Amber questoin: Could Oberon still be alive?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:40:04 GMT

jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester) writes:

>Okay, I've read the first set of Amber books a few times, and I have a
>question that I was hoping someone could shed some light on.  Could Oberon
>still be alive?  Could he have made a deal with Dworkin and staged a phoney
>funeral?  Could Brand have actually lied about seeing Dad die?  (As if that

Remember, these are Amberites we're dealing with.  Lying and plotting comes
as naturally to them as breathing.  Yeah, Oberon could easily still be alive.
And if you haven't read the second series yet, there's nothing in them that
proves that he's really dead.

--James

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: novak@wri.com (John M. Novak)
Subject: Re: Ecologies Wanted
Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:04:34 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.141235.15238@HAN.Paramax.COM> tom@HAN.Paramax.COM (Tom
Jewell) writes:
>I'm looking for titles of books that have detailed non-Earth
>ecologies.
>...

I'm not sure whether you would consider the descriptions of the ecology
sufficiently complete, but Janet Kagan's "Mirabile" has a number of interesting
aspects.  Also try Rosemary Kirstein's "The Steerswoman" and "The Outskirter's
Secret" (especially the latter; but it is a sequel to the former.)
--John Novak
novak@wri.com
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: works of L. Ron Hubbard
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:33:27 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <76275112092100424@FREDONIA> BOOT1423@fredonia.BITNET  
("Stephen M. Boothe") writes:
> Hello,
>        I would like to know what other sci-fi fans think of L. Ron  
Hubbard's
> works of science fiction.  I know that his founding of the Church  
of
> Scientology was controversial, but I am concerned with his merits  
as writer
> of science fiction.  Are his works worth reading?  Thanks.
> 

A few of his earlier works such as Fear, Slaves of Sleep, 
Final Blackout, and Typewriter in the Sky are at least worth
reading.  They are decent pulp fiction, fun to read, and, on 
a par  with other "middle-weight" SF of the 40s and 50s (that
is, on par with Piper or the better Van Vogt).  However, some
SF historical revisionists really overrate him, trying to rank
him with Heinlein, which simply is not the case.

Most of Hubbard's later stuff is just plain bloated and bad.


--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.cyberpunk