From: sdc@nsscmail.att.com (Sheryl D. Chapin)
Subject: Re: why do people react to this stuff (long)
Organization: NCR Systems Support Center - New Jersey
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:25:55 GMT



I don't normally respond to posts on the subject of religion, but somebody
asked the question, why do people react to this stuff?  the conotation being
why do people react violently to this stuff. And since I am a person who
reacts violently when someone starts quoting the bible to me, I thought I
would try to give a little insight.  (And yes, I know this is not alt.religion
but since this is where I saw the question, this is where I will answer it.

When I became a pagan two years ago, I did *ALOT* of reading.  I read books
written by rabid feminists and white christian males and everything in
between, I read historical texts, spiritual tombs and a four voloume set on 
the history of church councils. And of course, I read the bible.

What I came to see and understand thru all this reading is that the bible has
been used as a bloody, violent tool to suppres people for 3000 years.  Most
notably, women. (I hear, ah a rabid, anti-male feminist.  While I admit that
during my studying, I did go thru an all-men-are-scum period, it didn't
last very long.  I am not anti-men, I am anti-bible.)

To give just an example or two.  The churches views on sex and woman are based
almost entirely on the beliefs of St.Augustine.  This is a man who argued in
a church council that women had no souls. (Luckily the Celtic priests won that
argument.) For a good book on how and why the church adopted his views, read
Adam, Eve and the Serpent by Paglia (sp?).

The church actively advocated beating women.  It was a pope, I don't remember
his name, but he was Russian, who began the idea of beating with a stick
only as big around as your thumb.  What is really interesting about this, is
that he made that statement to try and keep men from killing the woman.  
Men were beating women so violently that the women were permantly diabled or
killed. So he said use a stick only as big around as your thumb because you
still want them able to work.

Until very recently, it was perfectly legal in this country for men to kill
there wives by beating.  I think it was Stone-Wolloncroft or Wolloncroft-
Stone, who did a study in the 1850's and found that as many as 3000 women
died in one year by being beaten by there husbands.  This became such a 
leading cause of women's death, that congress had to intervene.  They did 
this not by making it illegal to kill your wife, but by starting a campaign 
to get men to treat women better.	

The actual commandment in the bible is "Thou shall not murder".  God couldn't
tell people not to kill when in Deutoronomy he tells the Hebrews to kill
every man, woman and child, their livestock, burn their fields and destroy
their buildings until nothing is left.

It isn't necessary to bring up the inquisition or witch hunts to show how
suppressive the church was, there are many other examples.

I'm sure you noticed that I use the word church, not christian.  This usually
means the catholic church and it brings the response of "That's why 
[insert your own form of christianty] broke away from the church."  However,
I use the term because historically, it was the church that was in power, 
and when other sects broke away from the church for idealogical reasons, they
all maintained the same attitude toward women.  Also, although Jews veiws
towards women are just as bad if not worse, it was the church that shaped
our society. (We are a christian nation, not a jewish nation.)

I expect someone will say, where did you get that reference, what book was
it in so they can check my facts, but quite frankly, what's the point?  My
telling you that I read this fact in this book isn't going to mean anything
and someone else will say I read this opposite fact in this book. I truly
belive that the only way to come to an oppinion is to read *ALL* the books
yourself and come to your own conculsions.  Which is what I did, which is
what I am talking about, my opinion.  

Now how does this all relate to the original question?  Well, to me, I see
the judeo/christian ethic as a tool used for suppression.  So when someone
starts quoting the bible at me, I react in what I feel is the same way that
a black would respond if someone said slavery was a good thing.  And I don't
think that is to strong a comparision. And I think there is also an element
of fear, to me the history of the christian religion is steeped in blood,
violence and oppression and the thought that they might actualy have political
power is to frightening to contemplate.

When I see the responses to a religious quote, "keep it to yourself" "don't
inflict your beliefs on me" "you believe what you want, I'll belive what I
want", I think it is because people value their freedom and see christianity
as a threat to that freedom.


Sheryl Chapin


"That is my opinion and I am unanimous in that!"


-- 
It was only for kicks cracks and flacks plicks and placks and plickers--
Lackplacker Lackplicker loundwadtti Daago--Nickers flickers lackplicker--
Kicks flicks plack and ack lackflacmac ack ack macflackack ...
						-- Roscoe Mitchell