HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: del@babel.DIALix.oz.au (D Elson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: membership costs too high for Canadians? 
Distribution: world
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 09:05:31 GMT
Organization: 


In article <ByqwDB.EzM@news.ucs.mun.ca> andrew@bransle.ucs.mun.ca writes:

  > 
  > There was a discussion earlier which probably beat this to death, but my
  > membership wasn't up for renewal then so I didn't pay attention.  Just now
  > I started to fill in the membership form, and was shocked at the costs.
  > A basic sustaining membership with one newsletter and TI costs $42 Canadian!
  > Even an associate membership with no newsletters at all costs $16!  Added to
  > this is the $2 fee for a money order.  I'm seriously thinking about resigning
  > as an officer of the shire so I won't need to be a member.  $42 is a lot of
  > money for a newsletter, and $16 is a lot of money for almost no return.
  > 
  > Miklos

OK, I suggest that you look up the BoD member responsible for international
issues (try inside a recent TI, be aware they swapped hats recently) and
add your voice to the registry-office-for-canada proposal.  We have one
here in Australia which is working quite well, I estimate that it
saves Australian [foreign] members about $10 per year.  Added to that
is you don't have to buy a money order (you could send in your fees in
canadian $, currently our fees are fixed in Australian dollars).

Just my $0.02 worth (plus 10c stamp duty and $7 draft fees, converted
at $US0.69=$A1.00, makes it about $7.13).

Del

-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------
D Elson                            |  del@DIALix.oz.au del@adied.oz.au
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: james@wrs.com (James Moore)
Subject: Re: Interlibrary Loan (was Heraldic references...)
Reply-To: james@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:04:45 GMT

cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:

>Oh, no, they don't restrict interlibrary loan---they just charge you.
>It used to be $15 per book; I haven't a clue what it is now, but I bet
>it's more and not less.

Depends on who you are.  There's no charge if you're a student.  (I
just called them.)  If you've got an alumni card, then the charge is $50
(yep, that's fifty dollars), but they point out that the Berkeley public
library will provide the same service for fifty cents.

-- 
James Moore                            /|\                        james@wrs.com
Wind River Systems                     \|/                  Alameda, California
	 "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half
			  didn't mean anything at all"
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Drifting Away...
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:07:26 GMT


 DS>   Did they just let it fall and used snowshoes to get around?
 This being about the one spot I can comment on with any intelligibilty 
 -- so far as I know, they just let it fall.  Skates are very definitely 
 period, skis & sleds I'm 95% sure of, snowshoes 75% sure of.  Think on 
 this -- when you shovel snow, you're shoveling down to the sidewalk, 
 right?  So, if there weren't a sidewalk or flagged path, then you probably wouldn't need to shovel down to it, right?
    Unfortunately, all that comes to mind are the various pictures of 
 folks lifting their skirts to the fire, or taking their shoes off to 
 warm their toes at the fire.....hmmmmm.... that does imply that they 
 were getting cold somewhere, doesn't it?
     Gwenllian CfM

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: estokien@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eric Stokien)
Subject: Devices on Disk
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:58:52 GMT

Could the person who posted about the CoA information on disks please send
e-mail to me, I lost the post somehow and my College may be interested.

Frederic de Cherbourg
estokien@jarthur.claremont.edu

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Membership Money
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:39:00 GMT

Someone who didn't give us their name wrote:
  Could anyone tell me what happens to the money sent in for SCA memberships?
  I have been curious for a while, and I don't really buy the storie that it is
  spent on newsletters.

Ellisif answered:
  [ Some good stuff deleted, by Tibor ]
                 I don't have the latest budget to hand, but I'm sure someone
  else does (Hi Tibor, you electronic packrat you :-) ).

Already handled my dear, but your posting did remind me of something.
While our original querent is from Canada, and may not take much
comfort in this, the SCA has been auditted several times in the last few
years by the US Internal Revenue Service, and we have had no problems
that I'm aware of.  As a California Corporation, I'm sure there are
documents that we must file that you could get from the California
Department of State, as well, and any questions you may have could
be gotten with a request from the Board of Directors or the Registrar.

In addition, the SCA has budgeted $5,000 dollars this year for an
independent financial review from a certified company which specializes
in non-profit corporations.  To my knowledge, that review was undertaken
voluntarily.  I think our hands are mostly clean.

Also, a Corporate Financial Policy was just published, with details as
to the Society's corporate bank accounts, methods for maintaining capital
equipment, and it's accounting practices.  Is their something specific
you want to know about?

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: uplink@cwis.unomaha.edu (Axel Rose)
Subject: Non-European Personas
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 09:32:35 GMT

	While I'm in a writing mood, I thought I'd share this...

	Once, while tending thoughts about re-entering the society 
after a long absence, I entertained thoughts about coming in as an
Arabian persona.  After finding that is was, indeed, period, I sent out
selecting a name.  I changed my mind later though.  *Sigh*  I would
have liked to see if I'd gotten to the crown.  If I'd became King of
Calontir, I would have decreed that during my rule, the Kingdom would
have been referred to as "the Sultanate of Calontir," since by the
Arabian social ranks (as I understand them, and that's not saying much),
I would have been a Sultan, wouldn't I?

Axel, the Bandit
--
sig deleted
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: uplink@cwis.unomaha.edu (Axel Rose)
Subject: Re-joining the SCA as a Bandit
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 09:36:39 GMT

	By now, several of you out there have read my wonderful
post about trying to enter the SCA as a character not from history.
However, in the post I did say (didn't I?) that I had been a part
of the SCA for a while.  I also said I was disenchanted with the
local Barony, Lonely Tower.  They are the main reason I am not in
the SCA today.

	My question, to you knowledgeable Lords & Ladies, is this:
Is it possible to join the SCA and not join the local Barony?  In this,
I imagine I'll be sort of a Bandit, not owing fealty to the local 
Baron, and could still be a part of the peerage (hey, Robin Hood
got away with it, and according to SOME legends, he's period!)

	And what does this entail?  Am I allowed to go to Barony 
events?  Or am I a complete, autonomous unit?  (And would that mean
that I can award myself Rank?  Just kidding... :) )

	Things to ponder...

Axel the Bandit

P.S.  To those in Lonely Tower: If you're wondering who I am,
	the Sultanate idea should have given my identity away.


--
sig deleted
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 18:58:18 GMT

Greetings from Euriol of Lothian,

In article <1992Dec15.051335.16251@newsroom.utas.edu.au>, u883161@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Alex Tewes) writes:
|> Greetings all!
|>  
|> Our group exists right at the edge of the world, in the far far Southern 
|> Reaches.  We only know the richness and variety of the SCA in the Greater Known
|> World from photos and the tales of travellers.  In looking at all the photos
|> which have made their way down to us, I notice the complete absence of black
|> faces.  Why is that?   Is the SCA in some way culture-specific in not being
|> interesting to blacks? or is there some prejudice involved?
 
I believe that the reason you don't see many blacks (Afro-Americans, to be
politically correct) and other ethnic "minorites" (I don't care for the word),
is a lack of interest. Part of my interest in the SCA has to deal with my
personal ties to that time period. (My blood lines being mostly from old
norman stock in the british isles). However, I do know of two squires in the
West who are black and very much involved in the SCA, one of which has a
welsh persona. I have adopted him as one of my many sons (since my persona is
half welsh). We joke around about his father being Black Irish :) 

I know of no prejudice against these two gentles. Both of them are highly
regarded in our local area.

|> Martin de Mont Blanc    (mka Alex Tewes)
|> 
|> Shire of Ynys Fawr/ Lochac/  West
|> 
|> Purpure, four bendlets enhanced
|> and in base a mullet of five, Or

Best to all for the holiday season and the New Year.

Euriol
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: membership costs too high for Canadians? 
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:03:44 GMT

Del wrote:
  OK, I suggest that you look up the BoD member responsible for international
  issues (try inside a recent TI, be aware they swapped hats recently) and
  add your voice to the registry-office-for-canada proposal.

The ombudsman assignment for International Issues (unchanged), is
  Mary Kay Buike
  (Viscountess Caitriona ne Bhriain)
  8163 Laguna Court
  Stanton CA 90680 USA
  +1 714 891 3930

This information from the Board Minutes of the October 17th meeting,
and the Summer TI.  (Yes, I am working on a digest of the Board
Minutes, but it may take a while, work is busy, and the Minutes are
long.)

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mcdaniel@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Tim McDaniel)
Subject: Re: Heraldic difference
Organization: GREX Public Access Unix +1 313 761 3000
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:29:47 GMT

Letters of permission to conflict require that you FIND the old
armiger.  I have heard a rumor that the Registry can help you -- but
that can only happen if the old armiger hasn't left the SCA or moved
since their last membership.

Nobody is entitled to bear cadenced arms in the SCA, except the
heraldic heir (with a label).  Even that requires a letter to
TheHeralds (designation of heraldic heir).

I strongly disagree with Gwenllian's last point.  Use of appropriately
cadenced arms by relatives is a wonderfully period practice.  In
period, a child would not have (in most cases) their own arms of
entirely new design.
From: pwr@jab.tucson.az.us (Patrick Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Looking for armorial ftp site???
Keywords: FTP, Armorial
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 22:45:20 MST
Organization: Just Another Bbs. Tucson, AZ

The armorial is at Stanford University for FTP.  I will look for the 
address.  It is also online at Herald's Point BBS in the Barony of the 
Steppes, Ansteorra.
 
POC is tim@f4229n124.z1.fidonet.org
 
Tadhg is former Star Principal Herald, and he is compiling it there.
 
Volfred
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: HELP! name searching.
Organization: Brown University Mathematics Department
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:35:54 GMT

Bjalfi writeth:
>
>>   Norse sagas: the only literature requiring a geneological flowchart
>>for comprehension...
>>Ulfie
>
>SHEEESH! No kidding.  Never seen a more user-friendly source of name-
>documentation, though.

I dunno --- we were sort of partial to the Decameron when I was at
Duncharloch.... 

			---Simon

p.s. Chaucer's nice, too....
From: Ulf.Gunnarsson@f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Ulf Gunnarsson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Children in Justinian's c
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:50:00 -0500

ABG>>Now I consider most people in their early twenties a bit on the childish
   >>side. Most of my friends are in their late twenties to mid thirties. I
   >>generally get along better with those who are a little older than me.

ABG>>As for the few gentles in their early twenties who are upset at Justinian
   >>for his "artificial, arbitary" rule, does your public upsetness make his
   >>decision seem less or more wise?

   By his definition, I am mature enough to be in his camp. But as he
would not allow some of my friends to camp with him, I would be at odds
as to my choices. I _do_ disagree with Justinian, but my "public
upsetness" in no way affects the wisdom of his decision.
   I cannot justify to myself such a rule. I tend to grant people the
benefit of a doubt as to their maturity until proven otherwise. Even
younger children. In fact, most ones I've dealt with seem to act older
if treated more like adults.
   I have seen entire campsites full of middle-aged people with the
attitude and manners of brain-dead teenagers. I have made friends with
young-looking people whom I have never bothered asking how old they
were. If they _act_ responsible_, who cares their age? I don't. I value
their friendship, knowledge, and help.
   I do understand some of the reasoning behind Justinian's ruling. I
just feel he's cutting out some valuable people from his side.

Ulfie


 * SLMR 2.1a * Jokes: $1, Bad Jokes: Free, Good Jokes only in season...
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armor & New Game
Date: 19 Dec 92 07:24:03
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: David Schroeder's message of Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:29:12 -0500 


David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
] Good gentles,
]
] I've been entertained by the discussions of aluminum in period
] (or in the Napoleonic Age, for that matter).  There's a little
] "thought game" I like to play at post-revels where the high
] value of aluminum in times past is worth remembering.
]
] The setup for the game is this:
]
]   You're doing whatever it is you do on the average week night
]   when a 10-foot diameter "time bubble" pops into your living
]   room and the driver says "Hurry, the Sun's going nova in
]   15 minutes, you've got 10 of those minutes to gather up
]   everything you can carry and think of a time and location
]   at least 400 years back where you'd like me to drop you..."
]
] How about some of the rest of you on the Rialto?
] WHERE?  WHEN?  and WHAT?

400 years is a little recent, but if that's when, drop
me in 1592 England. I'd bring :

My wife (of course) and dogs and cats, and the horses
if they'd fit, and our next-door neighbors.

My guns and ammo and bows and arrows, of course.

My telescope and microscope.

My CRC Handbook of Chem&Phys, Marks handbook for Mech. Engineers,
Merck Veterinary and Medical manuals, the encyclopedia.

All the medicines in the house, especially pain-killers.

My few bits of Waterford crystal.

The one non-battery-powered watch in the house.

And I'm probably out of time to collect things.





--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Primitive FireArms
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:25:05 GMT
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764

In article <724389963.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:
> Handgonnes are definitely period, since they are first seen somewhere 
> in the mid-14th, if memory serves me right.  I can't remember when they 
> started making matchlocks, but I know that the wheellock is within 
> period.  Hope that helps....

	I believe that matchlocks preceeded wheellocks.  Somethings tells me
that cannon preceeded handguns, also.

|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
|o| Of Course I speak  |      michael carson       | Carpe Diem, Man.        |o|
|o|  only for myself.  | c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu | Carpe Vitam, too.       |o|
|o| Would YOU let me   +---------------------------+-------------------------|o|
|o|  speak for you?!?  |      All flames to: nobody@moncol.monmouth.edu      |o|
|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: LoAR Question
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:30:24

 JM> Your friend's best approach would be to contact the chief herald of
 JM> Trimaris, Triskele Principal Herald.  That officer will have the
 JM> information he needs.  If you'd like someone here to try to dig it up, it
 JM> would help to know when he submitted the device, and whether or not he is
 JM> certain that it was passed by Triskele to Laurel.  (If it wasn't, then no
 JM> one outside Trimaris will ever have seen it.)  If so, I suggest that you
 JM> follow-up to scahrlds@pucc.princeton.edu, the heraldic mailing list, or to
 JM> me by direct mail.

 I sent His Excellency the status of his device about a week ago on the
 FidoNet MEDIEVAL echo; I wonder if his access to that area has been
 interrupted...  As I recall, it's scheduled for consideration in December.

    Tadhg, Obelisk

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:32:12 GMT

I'm going to bite the bait here, and respond to Carolus comments
with opinion, instead of fact:
  But I have the right to bitch, my friend, for I am a
  *dissatisfied customer*. I am not dissatisfied with my
  local heralds: They have bent over backwards for me
  and others. I am not dissatisfied with *any* individual
  herald. I think the system they operate under is a travesty
  and that the amount of complaining we see and hear is
  evidence that something must be done.

Carolus, the instinctive response to a perceived attack, is a
defense.  If you attack "TheHeralds", you will get an entrenched
defensive response, and little that's productive can occur.  I
will defend to the death your right to bitch, but I think your
approach is flawed.

When you stop shouting, and start talking, *I'll* be happier
to work with you. In the mean time, I'll leave a lot of room
in this forum for you to bellyache.  Heck, I'll cede you this
whole corner...

Some of your points have merit, BTW.  I just do not choose to
be pilloried while we debate.  Have at it, my friend.  What was
your thesis, again?

  Those stats posted on numbers of submissions told a story,
  I'd like to ivite Arval, Taghd, Tibor, and all of the other
  heralds on this group to theorise just what they imply.

On the other hand, this is an interesting question.  It might just
mean that the SCA is growing, it might mean that the CoA provides
a service that many folks can use, and use succesfully.  It
might mean that the CoA is overburdened, and in danger of immanent
collapse, or that we are growing succesfully.  Not very much real
fact can be read into those numbers.  I'd rather read a lot into
the review of the Laurel King's office in last spring's Board Minutes.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: HELP! name searching.
Date: 15 Dec 1992 19:15:49 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.berkeley.edu

>   Norse sagas: the only literature requiring a geneological flowchart
>for comprehension...
>Ulfie
> * SLMR 2.1a * Let's play a yoke on Njal... Get the torch.

SHEEESH! No kidding.  Never seen a more user-friendly source of name-
documentation, though.

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: HELP! name searching.
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 17:27:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.065828.25765@midway.uchicago.edu> ddfr@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>"Not all of the names of characters in period stories were borne by
>real people.  "Kvedulfr"  from Egil's Saga means "Night Wolf" or
>werewolf. This is NOT a name that a real Norseman would be proud to
>bear." (Lothar)
>
>Your translation is correct, but what is your reason for believing
>that the name "Kveldulf" was not actually used? I believe Egil is
>generally regarded as a historical figure (if not, the author of
>
>David/Cariadoc

I would agree with you that "Kvedulfr" probably was used as a nickname.
But, like many other Norse and Anglo-Saxon nicknames, it was not a
particularly polite nickname, since it was associated with Berserking,
and magic.  To my mind, a person who willingly takes the nickname
"Kvedulfr" is accepting a nickname that has nasty overtones. Calling
yourself "Snorri Kedulfr" is like calling yourself "Snorri the Evil", or
"Snorri the Unpredicable Madman". Yeah, you might be able to take the
nickname (barring the SCA prohibition vs. names or nicknames that imply
supernatural origin or powers), but would you really WANT to. It goes
against the mindset of a period person to want to willingly assume a
name or nickname with negative connotations.  The heralds (tm) have and
will, cheerfully register the most awful of nicknames (Actual examples:
Albert von Dreckenfeld, Matthew the Confused, Solomon the Black Wizard),
but people should be aware of the connotations of the name they are
taking!
	Also, Snorri Sturlusson was writing about his distant ancestors,
and could have very well have been trying to make them sound more
upernatural and powerful than they really were. While family sagas are
in general, very good sources of documentation for Norse names, I
wouldn't bet the farm on every nickname being documentable from the 9th
or 10th centuries based on 13th c. records. I have a feeling that some
of the more outlandish nicknames might have been legendary and would
have never have been used (at least to the person's face) during a
person's lifetime. Certainly a person wouldn't cheerfully introduce
himself by saying "Hi, I'm Snorri Kvedulfr". Instead, he would call
himself "Snorri from Birka" or "Snorri Rolfsson", or maybe even "Snorri
the Dark".

Lothar \|/
        0

how much How much can we assume
is real and how much 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca