HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: The Gripping Hand (was: Re: Mote around...)
Date: 22 Nov 92 22:40:42 GMT

> About a year and a half ago, Jerry Pournelle, in his byte column mentioned
> that his sequel "Mote around God's eye" was done... I have yet to see it in
> any bookstores, and the bookstore owners can't find it on any publisher
> list... Anyone know anything about this book, or what the lead time is like
> in publishing?

Heh heh heh.  I've *read* it.

Pocket Books sent me a galley last week.

Look for it February '93.  I will cover it soon in Raymond's Reviews.
-- 
					Eric S. Raymond <esr@snark.thyrsus.com>
From: cg533@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James Eugene Alloway)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Why Hard SF Should Be Character-Oriented (was Re: Diamond-hard SF)
Date: 23 Nov 1992 14:13:31 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I not only agree with Mr. Yamaguchi, I am rather disappointed in a purely
technological interest in SF.  I feel that learning about technology
or reading sf is enjoyable and enlightening when people are involved. Sure,
there is some "oh, neat" feelings when I learn a new tech, but I always
ask myself, "How will this affect me and those around me. Or my society."
If you want technology without a story, read a manual or textbook.  Fiction,
real fiction, watever genre, involves people.  Everybody has different views
on what SF should do, but I feel that one of the major roles SF can  play is
to explore the effect of future events and technologies ON PEOPLE. I don't
only wnat to know that Cyberspace is possible: I want to go there, and meet
others, and share my erxperiences.   Otherwise, There's no place for humans
and no place for me.
    Gene
  set soapbox="off"
From: eschneid@sparc49.tamu.edu (Erich R Schneider)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF for kids and teens?
Date: 23 Nov 92 22:08:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: sparc49.ESCHNEID.92Nov23140811
Organization: Texas A&M University
NNTP-Posting-Host: sparc49.cs.tamu.edu
In-reply-to: Sandra_M_Lowe.Henr801B@XEROX.COM's message of 23 Nov 92 14:01:16 GMT

In article <"23-Nov-92.9:01:04".*.Sandra_M_Lowe.HENR801B@Xerox.com> Sandra_M_Lowe.Henr801B@XEROX.COM writes:

>I have searched my bibliographies and lists and have surprised myself
>that I don`t have a list of SF for kids and teens, or any books in my
>lists designated as juvenile.  So what I would like is a list of
>reccommendations for books for the very young and for teens.  Please
>feel free to include some brief comments about why you reccommend any
>given book.

I recommend:

The first 3 "Earthsea" books, by Ursula K. LeGuin: _A Wizard of Earthsea_,
_The Tombs of Atuan_, _The Farthest Shore_. Also, the "Harper Hall" books
by Anne McCaffrey: _Dragonsinger_,_Dragonsong_, _Dragondrums_.

I read these books when I was a teenager and enjoyed them very much.
All of them deal with people that age, and I found them very relevant
to my life at the time. 

My tastes have since expanded, but I remember having a good time with
these.
--
Erich Schneider  eschneid@cs.tamu.edu

"The Hierophant is Disguised and Confused."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
From: doom@elaine6.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Brenner)
Subject: Re: Gregory Benford
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:27:27


Well, I'm definitely a fan of Greg Benford's fiction, in
fact I think you could make a good case for him being the
greatest living SF writer.  He's one of the few with a
scientific background, who also knows how to write...

Which is not to say that every one of his books is perfect.
ARTIFACT and BEYOND THE FALL OF NIGHT both had their
problems, for example.  But these don't matter much compared
to the things he's achieved with IN THE OCEAN OF NIGHT,
ACROSS THE SEA OF SUNS, TIMESCAPE, AGAINST INFINITY, IF THE
STARS ARE GODS (with Eklund), and some of the stories
collected in IN ALIEN FLESH.  Probably there are some others
that should be included in the list, I haven't made my mind
up about books like TIDES OF LIGHT.

My personal favorite is ACROSS THE SEA OF SUNS, in which the
aging Nigel Walmsley manages to get himself assigned to the
first interstellar expedition.  In addition to the usual
problems of understanding the phenomena they encounter, he
also has to deal with inter-ship politics, and a crew that
just wants to ignore his rather depressing message.  

If the usual run of SF writers strike you as being shallow
or pointless, you should check out Greg Benford.  

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.cyberpunk
From: mwasson@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Michael Wasson)
Subject: Re: Diamond-hard SF
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 02:48:49 GMT

>>You know, a metaphor doesn't have to be 100% accurate to be useful.
>
>Useful?

>[sarcasm]

>Nope, this here is _fiction_.  Greasy fiction.  Low-rent fiction.

I'm surprised to hear someone say, in effect, "can't be a metaphor, it's
fiction" -- fiction has *always* been about metaphor.

When Oedipus puts out his own eyes in horror and disgust at his situation,
where would the power of the scene be if we didn't see a metaphor of
some sort about the human condition?


Was it Ursula Guinne  [Guine ... Guinn  .... damn, I *know* I'm not 
spelling her  name right! ;-)  ]  who said that all science fiction 
is about the present?  How could it not be?  How could you make any sense
out of it otherwise?

Well, that doesn't mean one has to get all academic and sounding like
an English professor every time you read a book...  :-)


Mike        who's less didactic in person
______________________________________________________________________
Mike Wasson    ---   U.Hawai'i, Manoa   ---   Fat Messiah Games
mwasson@uhunx.uhcc.hawaii.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Can you say: Do-deca-he-dron?" -- Lisa Simpson
"Fool! Do you think I would fight you alone?!?" -- Skeletor
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: btowle@ecst.csuchico.edu (Brendon Blaire Towle)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Human Computers in SF--Help!
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:31:03 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

>
>Eskinder> Hello all:
>
>Eskinder> I need some help....  I'm looking for examples in fiction
>Eskinder> literature of super sophisticated communicative computers a
>Eskinder> la HAL. That is, computers that talk and communicate like
>Eskinder> humans.  I'm not so much interested in those instances where

How about David Gerrold's "When H.A.R.L.I.E. Was One"?

Also, "The Golden Fleece" (I forgot the author)
      "The Adolescence of P1"  (ditto)

Like the previous post said, there's lots more where this came from.

Brendon.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: haworth@cwis.unomaha.edu (Dwight A. Haworth)
Subject: Re: Human Computers in SF--Help!
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 23:38:17 GMT

sahle@csgrad.cs.vt.edu  writes:
> 
> Hello all:
> 
> I need some help....  I'm looking for examples in fiction literature
> of super sophisticated communicative computers a la HAL. That is,
> computers that talk and communicate like humans.  I'm not so much 
> interested in those instances where it's a robot that cannot be
> distinguished from a human being as in computers sounding human without
> being almost totally human-like.... 

    No one has mentioned  Blain  in _The_Waste_Lands_ by Stephen King.

    Dwight Haworth
    College of Business Administration
    University of Nebraska at Omaha
    Standard Disclaimers


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: charles@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Charles Jacob Cohen)
Subject: Re: SF for kids and teens?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:16:17 GMT

The best books I can recommend for teenages (of all ages!!) are the
"So You Want To Be A Wizard" by Diane Duane.  The are great, thoughtfull
stories that kept my interest the entire way.  They deal not only with
fantasy elements but with science.  Highly recommended.

Also, Patricia Wrede, whose books I wish I could find more of, writes a
number of books aimed at teenages that I love.  She is a good fantasy
writer though, not SF.
- Chuck

-- 
"I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect, had intended for us to forgo their use." - Galileo
"I'm an engineer, not a dictionary!" - Me
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: agc@bmdhh286.bnr.ca (Alan Carter)
Subject: Re: Ecologies Wanted
Organization: BNR-Europe-Limited, Maidenhead, England
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:26:58 GMT

> In article <1992Nov18.141235.15238@HAN.Paramax.COM> tom@HAN.Paramax.COM (Tom Jewell) writes:
>Can anyone recommend another source where a complete
>ecosystem is described?

Then there are the various stories about Medea - Harlan's World, where
a whole bunch of writers stirred up by Harlan Ellison described the 
planet and it's ecology. Stories have appeared all over the place, 
but there is at least one anthology with the above title.

   Alan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To arrive at the simplest truth, as Newton knew and practised, requires years
of contemplation. Not activity. Not reasoning. Not calculating. Not busy 
behaviour of any kind. Not reading. Not talking. Not making an effort. Simply 
bearing in mind what it is one needs to know.

   George Spencer-Brown, Laws of Form
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: FELSON_ADJ@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Mote around...
Date: 20 Nov 1992 17:02:57 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

About a year and a half ago, Jerry Pournelle, in his byte column mentioned that
his sequel "Mote around God's eye" was done... I have yet to see it in
any bookstores, and the bookstore owners can't find it on any publisher
list... Anyone know anything about this book, or what the lead time is like
in publishing?
From: jim@rand.org (Jim Gillogly)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: What is Deckard (was Re: Are *YOU* Human?)
Date: 22 Nov 92 00:45:33 GMT
Organization: Banzai Institute

In article <1063@chorus.chorus.fr> jice@chorus.fr writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.223534.22029@fnbc.com>, frank@fnbc.com (Frank Mitchell) writes:
>...
>%% over a forest, and an extra few seconds spent on Rachel's photograph that
>%% showed its subjects moving slightly (indications that it's a hologram?). 
>
>The subject of the photograph is not moving slightly, it temporarily becomes
>a live scene. I think this is to point out how intensly realistic are Rachel's

I single-framed with my laserdisk player across this scene, and it looks to
me like the apparent motion is due to shadows playing across the picture,
rather than either slight motion or live action.  Is your theory (either of
you) that this scene changed for the Director's Cut?
-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	U.S. National Debt: $4,141,909,777,133
	Your Share: $16,192
Organization: Center for Machine Translation, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:42:42 -0500 
From: John Robert Leavitt <jl3j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Author Polls: Ray Bradbury

Welcome to the author polls.  This week's author is Ray Bradbury.

INTRO to AUTHOR POLLS  (skip if you've participated before):

   Since no two readers can generally be expected to agree
   about the quality of a given author, an overall poll
   like that used in rec.arts.movies would be useless
   except as an incendiary.  However, there is often good
   agreement about which books by a given author are most
   worthy: thus this poll.

IF YOU MISSED AN EARLIER POLL and want to contribute, please
   feel free to DO SO.

BALLOT FORMAT  (read this once):

   You have four votes, one each at +3, +2, +1, and -1. You
   may vote for a work of any length, though you may wish
   to restrict yourself to the form in which the author was
   most prolific.

SAMPLE BALLOT (just a reminder):

   + 3 <vote for at most one work>
   + 2 <vote for at most one work>
   + 1 <vote for at most one work>
   - 1 <vote for at most one work>

SEND BALLOTS TO THIS ADDRESS.  If you prefer multiple choice,
you can obtain fairly complete bibliographies by anonymous ftp
from gandalf.rutgers.edu, in /pub/sfl/authorlists.

LAST WEEK'S RESULTS:

George R. R. Martin
-------------------
 The Armageddon Rag                +  11
 Sandkings                         +   7
 Fevre Dream                       +   6
 Tuf Voyaging                      +   6
 Stone City                        +   3
 Song for Lya                      +   2
 In Alien Flesh                    +   1
 Unsound Variations                +   1
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 Patrick Henry, Jupiter, and the   -   1
   Little Red Brick Spaceship
 Dead Man's Hand (Wild Cards #7)   -   1


PREVIOUS AUTHOR LISTS are available via Email from this address,
via anonymous ftp from any CMU CS machine (e.g., ftp.cs.cmu.edu
[128.2.206.173]), or through AFS in the directory:

         /afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/jrrl/public/authorpolls/

If accessing this directory through anonymous ftp, it is important to
"cd" to the directory using one operation, as some of the superior
directories on the path are protected from access by anonymous ftp.
PREVIOUS AUTHORS:
  Roger Zelazny
  Orson Scott Card
  Ursula K. Le Guin
  Larry Niven
  C.J. Cherryh
  Robert A. Heinlein
  David Brin
  Arthur C. Clarke
  Isaac Asimov
  John Brunner
  Frank Herbert
  Jack Vance
  Philip K. Dick
  Samuel R. Delany
  Greg Bear
  Robert Silverberg
  Philip Jose Farmer
  Poul Anderson
  Frederick Pohl
  Joe Haldeman
  Stanislaw Lem
  Cordwainer Smith
  Tanith Lee
  Gordon R. Dickson
  Walter Jon Williams
  Fritz Leiber
  Clifford D. Simak
  Harlan Ellison
  Gregory Benford
  Theodore Sturgeon
  George R. R. Martin
From: rr@chem.ucsd.edu (Roxanne Rohmann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Startchild trilogy by Pohl. Is it worth reading?
Date: 16 Nov 1992 07:41:40 GMT
Organization: Chemistry Dept, UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: chedccf0.ucsd.edu

In article <Bxo8yz.Exs@cs.uiuc.edu> joshi@cs.uiuc.edu (Anil Joshi) writes:
 > 
 > Recently I picked up Starchild trilogy in a library book sale. I started 
 > reading it last night but was not terribly impressed with the first 60 pages. 
 > Is it worth readin?

I have the book, although I haven't read it in quite a long time.
I enjoyed it quite a lot, but at the same time found it fairly 
uneven.  I suggest you think of it as three separate novels rather
than as anything really connected.  In trying to dredge up stuff
out of my rusty memory, I suspect I liked the characterizations
better than the actual plots.

All in all, I suggest you hang in there.

   ---Roxanne Rohmann
 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: stucki@retina.cis.ohio-state.edu (David J Stucki)
Subject: Re: Raymond Feist
Originator: stucki@retina.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: Ohio State University Computer and Information Science
	<1992Nov17.083851.16932@wheaton.wheaton.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:49:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.083851.16932@wheaton.wheaton.edu> kroth@david.wheaton.edu (Ken Roth) writes:

   In article <1992Nov16.161349.11324@cs.hope.edu> rossing@cs.hope.edu writes:
   >A friend of mine has heard that there's a new book out by Raymond E.
   >Feist and wants to know if this is true, and if so, the title and
   >whether it is part of Riftwar series or the Daughter/Servant of the
   >Empire books.  Anyone know anything?  Thanks!

Someone else answered this already, I believe (which is fortunate
since I don't remember the title -- it is part of the Midkemia series though).

   He has the third book of the 'Daughter of the Empire Series' due out
   somewhat soon.  Lesse, what is it called....hmm.

   I believe it starts with an 'S', but to be honest I cannot remember.  Sorry.

   Also, to those reading out in netland, what did you think of Fairie
   Tale?  (Yikes, did I get the title right....??.?)  Anyway, if you read
   his stuff you will know the one I mean.

Ken,

The third empire book has been out for some time now. The titles for
all three are:

Daugher of the Empire
Servant of the Empire
Mistress of the Empire

An excellent series (I think I liked it better than the riftwar series
in many ways).

Faerie Tale (notice the spelling) was much different from Feist's
other books. It was the first of his that I read (the title got me).
I would classify it more as a mythological horror than a fantasy, but
I liked it all the same. I'd like to see Feist do more branching out
like this rather than remaining stuck in his little Midkemia/Kelewan
niche. Why what did you think?

dave...

Formerly:
~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~=~+~
David J Stucki                     I didn't expect the SPANISH INQUISITION !!
Wheaton College C.P.O. 2507
Wheaton, IL 60187   USA            ihnp4!wheaton!stucki


David J Stucki               /\     ____          /\ Department of Computer and
537 Harley Dr. #6           /__\   \ /\ /  /\    /__\       Information Science
Columbus, OH  43202        /\  /\   \--/  /__\  /_\/_\    2036 Neil Avenue Mall
stucki@cis.ohio-state.edu /__\/__\   \/        /\    /\      Columbus, OH 43210
                                              /__\  /__\    __
There is no place in science for ideas,      /_\/_\/_\/_\   \/  /\     /\
there is no place in epistemology for knowledge,                --    /__\
and there is no place in semantics for meanings.  -- W.V. Quine      /_\/_\
From: bp494@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dana Goldblatt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF for kids and teens?
Date: 24 Nov 1992 04:26:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


Some sf authors I remembered liking as a little girl:

Andre Norton, mainly
H M Hoover
A M Lightner
Sylvia Enghdal (mentioned earlier)
Annabel & Edgar Johnston

I don't know how Hoover & Lightner would hold up to adult
reading since I haven't read either since 6th grade, but
their books were very enjoyable then.

I also had a favorite book in 2nd grade that 
did *not* hold up to later re-reading in 6th grade:
Odyssey from River Bend (or maybe Odyssey *to* River Bend)--
but it sure was great in 2nd grade.
-dana
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:15024 rec.games.frp.misc:8607
From: rob@hoster.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rob Carriere)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Amber questoin:  Could Oberon still be alive?
Date: 19 Nov 92 03:36:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: ee.1992Nov19.033621.14307
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc
Organization: Tim's poppenkast

In article <1992Nov18.071723.154977@zeus.calpoly.edu>
jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester) writes: 
>Okay, I've read the first set of Amber books a few times, and I have a
>question that I was hoping someone could shed some light on.  Could Oberon
>still be alive?  Could he have made a deal with Dworkin and staged a phoney
>funeral?  Could Brand have actually lied about seeing Dad die?  (As if that
>would be any surprise?)  The question arises from some thoughts I've had
>towards a Amber Role-Playing campaign I'm working on...

I think you're coming at it backwards.  As GM, you can make anything happen.
`Is it possible?' is the wrong question.  The real question is: do you want it
to be so?  Do you have some framework that will make it LOGICAL, as opposed to
merely possible or even plausible, that Oberon lives?  Will the resulting
campaign be better than it would have been without Oberon?  If so, go for it.
If not, dump it on the pile of neat ideas that almost worked.

If you do decide to go for it, it is clearly consistent for any and all
Amberites to have lied through their teeth.  As someone else pointed out, you
may have to do some fancy footwork to explain the behavior of the Unicorn, but
I'm sure that can be done.  The thing that needs work is explaining how and
why Oberon survived the Pattern.  Think long and hard about that one, because
most likely the solution you come with will have all kinds of implications for
other situations.  A lot work here will pay off in the form of dozens of
plot-hooks, probably including a couple of ways to start the players thinking
about Oberon's death.

Crossposted to rec.games.frp.misc, Follow-ups set to that group alone, as this
doesn't have much to do with sf.written anymore.

SR
"Goed, ik denk dat ik wel door de rollen die ik wilde bespreken
 heenben. Ik wil afsluiten met de mededeling dat ik Rob Carriere deze
 week een prominente rol laat spelen, let maar eens op!"
   -- Tim Van Der Avoird
---
From: Beth.Friedman@p5.f341.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Beth Friedman)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Looking for author/title of short story
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 21:10:22 -0600

 > Hiya. Some time ago, I read a short story about a man 
 > who programmed a computer to process a prayer over and 
 > over, like a Buddhist prayer-wheel. Eventually, 
 > something happened. This is all I can remember, So if 
 > anyone can help me with the title, author, where to find 
 > it, or even the plot, I'd be very grateful...

This is an exceeding long shot, but if it's _not_ Arthur C. Clarke's "The Nine
Billion Names of God" that you're thinking of (the obvious choice), it might be
"Armageddon" by Fredric Brown.  In that story, a prayer wheel that has been
going for centuries finally stops, with untoward results.

 * Origin: Beth's Point: Minneapolis, MN (1:282/341.5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: weiner@bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov (Gary Weiner)
Subject: Re: Gor Considered Thoughtfully --- an analytical essay
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 15:59:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.172550.5001@spss.com> markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder) writes:
>In article <1jPmLP#1JgFR74LSpf97kj1JV30N4rp=esr@snark.thyrsus.com> esr@snark.thyrsus.com 
>(Eric S. Raymond) writes:

>>From this angle, Norman isn't *wrong* so much as he is a man who's outlasted
>>his time.  But if that's so, why his return?  Why is "The Chieftain" viable in
>>the marketplace?
>
>Are adolescent boys now getting all the sex they want?  If not there's
>still a substantial market for Gor.
>

Really, then why are women a large percentage of Norman's fan's. Many women
,including (god halp me) my wife, love John Norman's books. Perhaps for the
same reason she/they like sleazy romance novels.

Also realize that Norman is no illiterate boob. He is an intelligent, well
spoken man and a professor of philosophy. He is also an interesting speaker
and if he shows up at a con you're at, go see him.


Gary J. Weiner  | Brookhaven National Laboratories  | "The killer awoke 
PO BOX 715      | National Synchrotron Light Source |  before dawn...
Upton,NY 11973  |    weiner@bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov     |  he put his boots on..."

Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:15049 alt.cyberpunk:5953
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Diamond-hard SF
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:55:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

jessec@yang.earlham.edu writes:
> whatever it is that is not "diamond-hard SF"-- "spongy-soft SF", 
> perhaps?

Talcum-soft SF.

	Larry "Helpful" Hammer
--

LNH@physics.arizona.edu   \   Hidden harmony is better than manifest.
GEnie: L.HAMMER2           \      -- Heraclitus, #47
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written