HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:38:53 GMT
Organization: IBM, Austin

In article <Bzp4Bu.B9C@news.iastate.edu> wwang@iastate.edu (Wen-Ping Wang) writes:
>
>I really don't like to repeat the story of Mr. Cheng nan-rong unless
>the netters are interested. But just when there are couple articles
>discussing about the possible biased position of several newspapers,
>does it occur to you that the story you read might have been twisted
>already?  
>

Why is the truth being told about TI terrorists biased, while the truth(?)
about the CNP is not biased? Can you see the double-standard bigotry here?

>W.P. Wang


-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ty Lee                                                                    */
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ioguo@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (OA Guo)
Subject: Re:    HATE EACH OTHER ? TIME FOR TIAWAN INDEPENDENCE
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 21 Dec 1992 16:06 EDT  

In article <1992Dec21.130529.4178@vax.cns.muskingum.edu>, ericlaw@vax.cns.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes...
>In article <1992Dec20.004414.14418@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>> 
>>>> To advocate for the *right* to independence is not the same as advocating
>>>> independence.  Just like to advocate for the *right* to abortion is not the
>>>> same as advocating abortion.
>>>
>>>	** No, it is the same thing. 
>>>
>>>	   Tell me how could it be different?
>> 
>> Tell me how it is the same.
> 
>	** Something in the world should be black and white.
>	   White is good and black is bad.
>	   You can not support good and at the same time support
>	   the "right of the bad". Bad thing has no right of anything.

	Eric, should I say it again?  You really have a mental block on
	what is democracy.  I agreed with Nelson wholeheartedly on the
	issue of "freedom of speech" in a previous posting.

	May I use your words "something in the world should be black and
	white".  It is my principle that "freedom of speech" is right, and
	"supressing the freedom of speech" is wrong.  Do you have a problem
	with that?  I honor anybody's right to advocate their believes -
	including TI, unification, and even communism.  
> 
>	   Your principle applies well to gray things.
>	   HOWEVER, you have to know: NOT EVERYTHING IN THIS WORLD
>	   IS GRAY.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
OA Guo                        |My statement does not reflect NASA's point of
NASA - Lewis Research Center  |view.  Nor should NASA's statements reflect
Cleveland, Ohio               |my point of view.
From: jin@gandalf.rutgers.edu (GJ)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Date: 22 Dec 92 02:56:42 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:

>In article <1992Dec21.160926.15558@zip.eecs.umich.edu> cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
>>afraid of bloodshed ? If so, I don't think you can even have a child.
>>Besides, who can guarantee that there won't be bloodshed if KMT united with
>>CCP ? In fact, there may be lot more bloodshed if CCP come to Taiwan.
>>So, man, forget about CCP, its history in Taiwan.
>>
>>Yi-Chieh
>You are not going to get TI. We not only do not give dawm about you TIers, 
>also your foreign master on the Taiwan issue.
>Jiang Zhe Ming warned if TI, china will take "resolute measure."(Duan4 Ran2
>Chuo4 Si1).
>I was even supurised by the phrases used. You may be Chinese enough to know to
>meaning of the wording.


You must be a TIer. You have been very successful making people from Taiwan
 disappointed at mainlanders.




+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|									|
|	Desinat in piscem mulier formosa superne.			|
|									|
|									|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:19:27 GMT

In article <BzLtBK.IKz@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:

>People are giving too much credit for "Democracy". It is not an ideal world
>, any weakening effect on China is a lose for Chinese and a gain for somebody
>in this world who wants Chinese down. If you are sensitive enough and monitor some
>westen media long enough, you will see "democracy" rhetoric is only a 
>camouflag for them. It is the same thing as hundred years ago , 
>"christianization" by the West. That the government has more, drect, immediate 
>accountability is always wanted. But when you talk about "demo", which one?
>Can I declare my apartment to be independent, my county, my province, if I want
>to? It is a relative concept. 

Sigh.

So, the perfect solution is going back to a monarchy?  Let's declare the
supreme comrade, Deng Xiao-ping (oops, if he becomes an emperor I shouldn't
even mention his name (Bi4 Huei4)) emperor.  Let him do anything he wants.

What else works if democracy doesn't?  In theory, a meritocracy might be better
than a democracy, but that is only in theory; in practice, a "meritocracy" will
never actually have the most able and most upright people handling it; it will
become corrupt, even if it starts out to be good.

What brought China to its present problems in recent times, after being the
leader in technology and strength up to the Tang Dynasty?  The inherent problem
with a non-democratic society.  The problem is that the ruler(s) will fear
losing their power, and will try to hold on to their power and prevent any
possible potential rivals from emerging, even at the expense of the nation/
people.  And corrupt rulers will then drag the country into oblivion.  The
Ming Dynasty happened to be a line of nothing but tyranny and corruption, and
by the virtue of the power it had, there was nothing to counter it.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: changhp@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 16:11:17 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan
Reply-To: echang@engin.umich.edu
Originator: changhp@fijan.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Dec31.181729.19093@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen) writes:
> In article <1992Dec31.163230.1413@cbnews.cb.att.com> liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes:
> >I am not so pessimistic as you are. We have brains (Aren't you one of
> >them?) and we are seeking a better living. Taiwanese businessmen are
> >not so short-sighted as you said. What we need is a leadership from
> >the government with a good policy not just protection.
 
> First, in my research field (semiconductors), whether a country has a
> seat in UN is never considered as a factor. Your example makes some
> sense, but it can't commonly apply to every field. Secondly, even if
> Taiwan declares independence, it will still be hard for Taiwan to enter
> UN. If China can use "unfair competition" to hinder Taiwan's economy,
> she can use the same method to hinder Taiwan's reentry to UN. Besides,
> declaration of immediate independence may cause the risk of war, which
> is adverse to Taiwan's economy.
> 
	Very few TIers want to declear immediate independence, TI can
be done in a prudent way just like your suggestion that unification can 
be done in a prudent way.  The key is to prepare for it and let the people
decide what we should do.

> >Whether someone can introduce a better reason and a better way?
> 
> Unification. :)  (Unification is a form of cooperation.)
> But only after China becomes a democratic country.
> 
	When? 
	If China becomes a democratic country, we should also compare 
the benifits of choosing TI or choosing unification.  The key is always to
put all options available in front of people of Taiwan and let them decide
what to do next.

> -- Chien-Chung Chen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: n
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:41:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.175203.3199@cbnews.cb.att.com> liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes:
>Another important thing is "Is Shi a special case among Chinese or
>he/she represents one of the China's view of Taiwan?" I would say
>the latter is quite possible. The fact is we are dealing with a country
>that some (or most?) of whose people never respect Taiwan.
>
>Will we become second class citizen after unification? Do China respect
>Hong Kong? To me, they treat it like "yet another colony" at least now.

Well, I wouldn't draw my conclusion if I don't have enough evidence
showing that most mainlanders support military unification and treat
Taiwan like colony. Since today's Chinese government is not a democratic
government, you can't equate Chinese government to Chinese people.

As to those of mainlanders who impose military threat to us, you know,
"One kind of rice feeds a hundred kinds of people." Jerks are everywhere.

-- Chien-Chung Chen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: leec4@rpi.edu (CD LEE)
Subject: Re: *Public Access in Taiwan?
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:19:59 GMT

In article <9TJ5VB1w165w@tsoft.net>, bbs.lar@tsoft.net (Larry Greenfield)
wrote:
> 
> Hi all.  A quick question if you please.  Are there any computer systems 
> hooked to internet/usenet/uucp in the Taipei area that are accessable to 
> the general public?  A friend of mine from school moved back to Taipei, 
> and I'm wondering if there's a public-access BBS or similar. Thanks. 
> Please respond via EMAIL so as nt to take up bandwidth. Thanks again!
> :::::Larry:::::
> 
> --
> Larry Greenfield (bbs.lar@tsoft.net)

Me too.  

CD LEE, Chun-Da Lee                              leec4@rpi.edu
ITS Consultant, Information Technology Service  CD_Lee@MTS.RPI.EDU
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
From: faype@bcvms.bc.edu
Subject: *** PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS CROSS-CULTURAL SURVEY!!! ***
Organization: Boston College
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:17:42 GMT

****************************************************************
*                  REQUEST FOR SURVEY PARTICIPANTS             *
*         CROSS-CULTURAL STUDY ON SURVIVORS OF SEXUAL ABUSE    *
*                BOSTON COLLEGE SCHOOL OF SOCIAL WORK          *
****************************************************************

*********************  I NEED YOUR HELP !!!!! ******************

My name is Peter Fay and I'm a graduate student in clinical
social work at Boston College and I am asking survivors of child
sexual abuse to be volunteers to fill out a questionaire on sexual 
abuse.  You will be helping a research project find out more about 
sexual abuse, how it affects people of different cultures and how 
they recover from it.  As a clinician and survivor, I have a vested 
interest in helping expand the inadequate knowlege base on abuse 
and recovery in order to help survivors.

*********************** CONFIDENTIALITY ************************

All information will be kept under lock and key and not accessible
through any computer network.  No identifying information will 
be kept with questionaire responses.  All information will be
sent through U.S. Mail, and responses will be anonymous.  All work
will be overseen by Dr. Nancy Veeder, School of Social Work,
Boston College.  

I was a "founding member" the alt.sexual.abuse.recovery newsgroup 
and set up the first anonymous posting service two years ago and 
had no breaches of security or anonymity while I ran it.

****************************************************************

To volunteer to fill out the questionaire (or for more info),
please send me your name, address (and if possible phone #). You
may contact me through mail, e-mail or phone.  Thank you.

                      Peter Fay
                      7 North Bend Road
                      Worcester, MA 01602, USA
                      (508) 757-3125

                      E-mail: 
                         Internet: faype@bcvms.bc.edu
                         Bitnet:   faype@BCVMS
From: yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Taiwanese Economic Data Wanted
Date: 1 Jan 1993 00:17:58 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu


Hello, I need some specific data on Taiwan's economy. Including 
numbers, and reviews. I'm sure there is someone out there who has
exact figures released from the government?

I would also like to gather as much information as I can about 
Taiwan's business climate, including overviews and brief accounts.
(and please don't send information that I already have been told by
dozens of Taiwanese people, namely "highest reserves in the world",
etc. Please send exact accounts regarding inflation, capital, 
real estate, etc.)

Thank you, I am sure the information will help my paper.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: China(was More than 50% support TI)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 23:56:06 GMT

In article <C08u0A.6ED@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>It was a bless in ancient times that Chinese can
>be killed by War during short period of chaos comparing other parts of the
>world, where most people could not live long enough to join the battle.

Shouldn't this article belong to rec.humor?

-- Chien-Chung Chen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao)
Subject: Re: TI Terrorisms (was Re: Election in Taiwan)
Organization: AT&T Bell Lab
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:32:19 GMT

From article <1992Dec24.074726.11284@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, by nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu):
> In article <Bzr2n9.2sG4@austin.ibm.com> tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee) writes:
> ...
>> ... 
>>I didn't accuse TI terrorists. I am not a prosecutor (chuckle :)) and I state
>>that according the source I read. I have to explain it again. They were 
>>inflamed involuntarily. 
> 
> At some points, I wonder if you are flaming involuntarily. :-)  But in any
> case, the source that you read is hardly an unbiased source; for example, I
> would have to assume that it tried to clear the government of all
> responsibility in the Dr. Chen case.  (I forgot his given name, but he, on
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> a visit back to Taiwan, mysteriously died after falling from the second story,
> after "talking" with the intelligence officers.)

Dr. Chen's given name is Wen-Cheng.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:26:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.231252.8263@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <BzLqrn.Gwr@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>
>>The danger is that the U.S. is behind all the TI deal. And DDP might
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>concel it's real intention until seizing power on the issue of TI.
>
>Please cite evidence, or otherwise your paranoia is not going to convince
>anyone.
>
>The United States supports democracy (or at least it says so); that is why
>it supported (but again, only lip service, IMO) Lithuanian independence, for
>example, because that is the will of the people.
How can I present you evidence? Tell you whole history, expecially recent events related to U.S. on Taiwan issue? I will try later as oppertunity comes.
But I do want you tell you why and how I say it by an analogy, hope it will help:
  When we are young Children, we paint with bright, sharp color, becuase 
  only sharp, obvious constrast let us see the picture. When we grow matured
  We became more understanding toward no so sharp contrast picture, see the homony or disharmony on the  picture. 
   Same thing happened in politics. simple minded people(less "sophisticated"
in westeners words) turned to understand and speak dramatic words. While 
better way used by the West is that slowly, persitently, bit by bit to 
influence the target population through media, and manipulate world events indirectly to inflluence output to be in their favor.
  Examples? plenty of them. Wait and watch my postings in the future.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Re: British Flags and Chritmas Wishes
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 23:58:02 GMT

walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
: From article <1992Dec25.031048.25839@nuscc.nus.sg>, by hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell):
: As I pointed out in another posting which may not have made it, the
: Spanish Fascists (the Falange, there was also the JON) coopted the
: anarcho-syndicalist colors because of the popularity of the
: syndacalists. It is not clear from your posting, but are you trying to
: imply that the Anarchists are equivalent to Fascists?


Aiyaa, as we say here. I wasn't trying to imply anything very much. The
original article in this thread was a jokey progression from Jolly Roger >
Jolie Rouge > Propety is theft (Proudhon?) > the Red flag. The second
posting (mine) SHOULD have progressed Jolie Rouge > choice of red and
black flags > a sideglance at the wicked colonel Q (just what we all need
at Xmas) > choice of anarchists and fascists (only the anarchists got left
out). So then I had to explain myself, and then it got into a right
rigmarole. The whole thing was a bit of playing around with colour
imagery/ words. Nothing more. I wasn't being SERIOUS. It's saturnalia
time, the rebirth of the undefeated sun, whatever.

BTW - wrong group I know - but you would happen to have the obscene
version of "Cara al Sol" would you?

Richard Pennell: 			

 :
 : 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: vogelm@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Michael Vogel)
Subject: British Imperial Weights and Measures
Originator: vogelm@hphalle6h.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:52:16 GMT


I would like to get some information about weights and measures.
Is the UK ever going to change from the British imperial system to the 
metric system?
To which extent and in which fields and professional branches is the metric
system used in the UK?
Who knows any abolished or rare weight and measures which are applied in 
special professional branches only, such as in mining, farming, navigation, 
etc.?
Is temperature still measured in degrees Fahrenheit?
How is liquor sold in pubs?
In which units are the height and the weight of a person given in the passport?
Is petrol still sold by the gallon?

 Thanks for your efforts
 
 Michael Vogel, Munich, Germany

 e-mailaddress: vogelm@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Gerry prayer corner and Xmas greetings
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:49:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.200610.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>In article <180342.18399@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>> Laurence old bean, he wasn't referring to you or DESY.  If you go on
>> like this, folk may take you for a paranoiac.  Not that everyone ISN'T
>> against you, but it isn't a good idea to behave like one regardless.
>> 
>> Oddly German-sounding name?  Hmm, have to think about that one.
>
>Sue, old gal, thanks for that advice.  I shall immediately take in on board and
>endeavour to ensure that whilst everyone hates me no-one mistakes me for a
>paranoiac.
>
>Merry Xmas to all the old maids on s.c.british
>

Anytime, Laurence.  I think perhaps the weather or the winter darkness
must be getting you down.  You were a lot perkier in the summer.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Gerry prayer corner and Xmas greetings
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:06:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.180342.18399@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
> In article <1992Dec21.121813.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>>In article <1992Dec21.025806.28341@osf.org>, dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
>>> snuffy@netmbx.netmbx.de (R.J. Bartle) writes:
>>>>
> Laurence old bean, he wasn't referring to you or DESY.  If you go on
> like this, folk may take you for a paranoiac.  Not that everyone ISN'T
> against you, but it isn't a good idea to behave like one regardless.
> 
> Oddly German-sounding name?  Hmm, have to think about that one.

Sue, old gal, thanks for that advice.  I shall immediately take in on board and
endeavour to ensure that whilst everyone hates me no-one mistakes me for a
paranoiac.

Merry Xmas to all the old maids on s.c.british

Laurence

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Re: Import/Export Research
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 13:41:16 GMT

z_ablesrl@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
: Hello all,

	Hi there, fellas
: 
: 	We are doing research on various items that international countries

	Well now a little problem here fellas - what's an international
country? is it the same as a national state, or what?

: would be interested in exporting and importing.  The items can consist of
: anything from clothing to large machines.  Of course, they must be a legal
							""""	    """""""	
	And a problem with our grammar eh boys?         PLURAL       SINGULAR

: product to enter and exit the different countries.  These are some questions 
: that we are trying to find the answers to:
:  
: 1.) How would we gather information concerning the legal regulations on
: 	shipping to Britian? 

Commerce section of your friendly local library?

: 2.) Who would an individual contact in your country about shipping
: 	requirements?  

A shipping agent?
: 
: 3.) What kind of licences or paper work does a company need to enter
: 	that foreign market place?


Your friendly local consular office?
: 
: I really would appreciate any help concerning this matter.  Thank you very
""""
Eh up: I thought you were plural boys. Royal we huh?

: much for your time and hope to hear from you soon.


Lazy so-and-sos

Richard Pennell, History NUS

: Sincerely,
: 
: 
: Ron Ables


Sorry, so-and-so