HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcollins@isis.cs.du.edu (The One and Only Killans)
Subject: MUTANT: Henry Peter Gyrich (was Re: X-Men Traitor i.e. Gambit)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 16:36:12 GMT


Good ole' Hank P Gyrich has been popping up in recent mutant titles
whenever there has been a 'high council' of government types to discuss
important mutant (or superpower) issues, for example Magneto's recent
actions, or 'bringing in Cable'. I've certainly seen him at least once,
and I assume he's a regular part of this high council. Other members
include Val Cooper and Nick Fury, it seems.

The last time I saw him before that was an issue of Wolverine but I've
probably missed a few.

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: dnaraghi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dara Naraghi)
Subject: Re: DC: Forgotten Heroes
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 12:02:10 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.194658.29627@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> tpjg9663@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Thomas P. Johnston) writes:
>
>My candidates for a new Forgotten Heroes group:
>1.  Black Lightning
>2.  Creeper
>3.  Captain Marvel
>4.  El Diablo
>5.  Hawk & Dove
>6.  Black Orchid
>7.  Vixen
>8.  anyone from Infinity, Inc.  or   Helix
>
>I think that DC has misused/underused all of these characters to a
>magnificent level.

	Well, pretty soon two of the heroes you mentioned above won't be
"Forgotten" anymore.  Black Lightning is getting his own series, written by
Tony Isabella.  Captain Marvel will also be in a new series, but I'm not
sure about the creative team (It might be Roy Thomas writing).



-- 
*****************************************************************************
* Dara Naraghi                       * "Love isn't really blind...just      *
* dnaraghi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu *  selectively nearsighted"--The Hulk  *
*****************************************************************************
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: META: Re: RAC SPLIT
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:41:20 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

mss2@midway.uchicago.edu:
>I understand some places are still aliasing rec.arts.sf.misc to
>rec.arts.sf-lovers, but I'm surprised if it's true that Princeton
>is not yet getting the other groups.

There were some nasty unfortunate politics associated with the r.a.sf
split, and one of the results was that the Princeton admin decided that
*he* wasn't going to accept the split, even if the rest of the net did.
I believe the matter is up for review.

>In any case, I remain in favor of putting the r.a.c. split to a vote
>as soon as possible, because my experience from other groups suggests
>that the subject will not die until it's formally either approved or
>rejected.  

Depends on what you mean by 'die'.  In fact, this subject has been
coming up and getting dropped intermittently for years.  The reason
it keeps coming up is that there *is* a widespread feeling that
the volume on this group is too high.  The reason it keeps getting
dropped again is that there are too many readers for whom a split
along company lines isn't the answer.

The main thing that's holding up 'the' split isn't a general reluctance
to see r.a.c. become more manageable.  Rather, we're still waiting for
a generally acceptable proposal, before it becomes worth moving to an RFD.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

  The surface of the strange, forbidden planet was roughly textured and green,
  much like cottage cheese gets way after the date on the lid says it is all 
  right to buy it.--Scott Jones
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime)
Subject: SILLY: Casting Coup (blatant political bias enclosed)
Reply-To: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime)
Organization: The Institute for Criminal Science, Gizmonics Control
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:12:45 GMT

In <56475@cup.portal.com> Peter_A_David@cup.portal.com writes:
>So what do you think--Paul Tsongas as Bruce Banner in a Hulk movie?  I
>mean, the guy has a bit more time on his hands now, and frankly, I think
>he'd be perfect.

If it'd get him any closer to the presidential office anytime soon, I'm for
it.  But knowing the effect of gamma rays, he's supposed to turn into
something completely different (no, not John Cleese); so he'd probably
become... 

Orrin Hatch.  (But dumber.  If that's possible.)

                           "It would make a lovely holiday card - `Greetings
                            from the Netherworld, love Joel and Elaine'."
---
                                        Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET:     moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP:  {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO:        You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
                 **>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: francis@styracosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu (RD Francis)
Subject: SANDMAN: Sandman Movie?!?
Originator: francis@styracosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: Ohio State Computer Science
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:14:56 GMT

In article <lis.702994962@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> lis@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Elisabeth Riba) writes:
   In the latest issue of Aboriginal SF, Susan Ellison's film column has
   this comment:
   "Adding to the list of growing comic book translations are an animated
   _Elfquest:_The_Movie_ and a screen version of the successful DC comic
   _Sandman_, written by Neil Gaiman."

Assuming such a thing ever got off the ground, I can see it only being
slightly butchered, covering the first Sandman story arc.  Several
changes would be necessary:

The people who captured Morpheus would have to be connected to John
Dee somehow.

John Dee would have to have taken an active role in supplanting
Morpheus, and would actively be fighting him at the end.

The period of imprisonment might be severely constricted; say, to a
matter of days, with Dee wreaking havoc ont he world at large.

Obviously, Constantine wouldn't play a role, nor would the regular DC
Hell cast; however, the search for the three emblems could still be
carried out.

Issue 2 would be pretty much obliterated.

The diner issue would be more generalized horror, probably in
connection with the shortened period of imprisonment.

Morpheus' victories in obtaining the first two Dream totems (or
whatever you want to call them) would at first seem like victories.
In the confrontation with Dee, they would at first be reduced to
trivialities, but would ultimately save the day.

Morpheus would be essentially an ordinary mortal throughout most of
the movie.  Odds are good he'd be paired with a human (female,
probably) and would learn what it meant to be human by the end of the
movie; in fact, his ultimate victory might hinge on this.

Pure guesswork on my part; just seems like what movie people would do
to the story.  On second thought, some of this would certainly *seem*
like a real hack job on the original; then again, I could imagine even
worse, I'm sure, if I tried.
-- 
R David Francis                         (Alternate addresses): rdf+@osu.edu
                                                            osu-cis!francis
B:If you can't believe what you read in a comic book, what can you believe?
R:Oh, Bullwinkle!           B:It's enough to destroy a young moose's faith.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: fal20643@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Capt. Frank A. Lauro)
Subject: Re: Abortion in Comics
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:53:22 GMT

fzhedric@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:

>	Considering all the hoopla in the Supreme Court over the most
>recent attempt by pro-lifers to recall the rights of a woman to choose
>if she is to have a baby.  I was wondering if at any time in comic history
>did the topic of abortion ever come up.  I have very strong doubts that
>Marvel would have the guts to ever bring up this sensitive topic but
>maybe a more gutsy/desperate publisher may have.

I remember PAD posting a while back that he had plans for an abortion-related
issue in an upcoming HULK.  (Or was it X-FACTOR, and if so, was that recent
"pre-natal mutant test" it?)
--------
Captain Frank A. Lauro          Commanding Officer       University of Illinois
fal20643@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu       USS ALEXA NCC 1764-D     Urbana-Champaign
--------
"What happened to your hair?"
 -- Boothby (Ray Walston) to Picard, TNG: "The First Duty"
From: rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Abortion in Comics
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:51:03 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <12055@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> fzhedric@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
>	Considering all the hoopla in the Supreme Court over the most
>recent attempt by pro-lifers to recall the rights of a woman to choose
>if she is to have a baby.  I was wondering if at any time in comic history
>did the topic of abortion ever come up.

Well, it was mentioned in passing in Watchmen, as I recall.  No doubt there
are a few actual occurrences out there.

Rumor has it that Neil Gaiman was going to write a Sandman short story
about a fetus dreaming, but chose not to so as not to provide the freedom-
bashers out there with more ammunition.

-- 
Michael Rawdon
rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI

"I am a cat, and I keep my own counsel."
					- "A Dream Of A Thousand Cats"
From: 0juan_e@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: X-Men Traitor
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:52:22 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US


My turn to throw my 'two-cents' worth to this arguement:
____________________________________________________________________________
In article <j-pj36.dani@netcom.com>, dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
> rudeboy@wam.umd.edu:
>>>...the most likely traitor to the X-Men and would make the best story and 
>>>fitting ending would be Wolverine.
> 
>>My gut feeling tells me that Bishop is the traitor of the X-Men...
> 
> You're both ignoring the obvious, which is that the future from which
> Bishop comes is not going to happen.  For one thing, he comes from a
> world in which there was no X-Man named Bishop.  More to the point,
> there can only be a destruction of the X-Men of the sort which Bishop
> 'remembers', if Marvel cancels the title -- or at least the clocks of
> most of the money-making characters currently in it.  So we can take
> it for granted that either the treason will never happen in the current
> continuity (as in, the new team just ignores it) or it fails.
> 
______________________________________________________________________________
Dani, 
  hate to break this to you -but this is the X-Men, probably comicdom's
most unpredictable superhero group, as in terms of plots and stories;
this is the only book that Marvel can get away with pulling stupid stunts
like multiple covers.  

As of the conspiracy, in Bishop's time The X-Men are of Legendary 
proportions, though they are given a distinguished place in history due
to the cataclysm that happened in Bishop's time (possibly, Bishop's time
coincides with that of the Sentinel's alternate Earth) some of the 
historic exploits of the team, including any official data on them, is
sparse.  If you've read the issues of "The Uncanny X-Men", which go 
over Bishop's timeline, it is revealed that the only known data of the
X-Men is from a man known as Witness (possibly, Gambit).
Anyway, the way everything is coming together -stand by for another
merry mutant cross-over but with a twist -a murder-clue plot.

Seems like good reading to me.

                                  Thanks
                                  Ned
                                  St. Peter's College
From: Peter_A_David@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: PEOPLE: PAD:  the Best/Worst Suckies (was Re: Best/Worst PA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 17:00:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <1340@bsu-cs.bsu.edu>

In response to several points/questions:

1)  James Fry and I had written a story that was to be a one-shot "Return of 
the Blasters" that was even more insane than the first one, and was a send-
up of the grim and gritty atmosphere of DC, which is an amazing contrast 
considering how loopy the entire line use to be back in the Weisinger era.
After sitting on the story for two months, it was rejected  (not by the
editor it was written for, but by another one) as being not at all the type
of story they want to print nowadays.   I'll probably run it in my column
under my "Useless Stories" banner.

2)  "Ace" didn't look like Michael Jackson.  "Ace" looked like the artist,
Mark Beachum.  Mark looks like Michael Jackson.

3)  The injection of humor into Dreadstar, especially in the beginning, was
quite deliberate in order to give the book its own style and flavor rather
than simply aping Jim Starlin.  But after three issues that were very 
tongue in cheek, the very next story involved death, destruction, 
cannabilism and other fun stuff.  Actually, I always thought some of the
most horrific stories I ever wrote were featured in Dreadstar--particu-
lary the issue that starts off with Iron Angel ripping out someone's guts
and ends with Vanth tearing Angel's arms out of the sockets.

PAD
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: Youngblood
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:49:05 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <poole.703521843@eugene> poole@convex.com (Ricky Poole) writes:


+>My question is what is it about this guy (Liefield) that makes him so
+>popular and that would attract a company to hype him so much?

	I think he is popular for his early work on New Mutants when
he had to at least accept the presence of a writer and had his drawing
style under more control.  As he became popular, he decided he knew
how to plot and pace a book....and the ultimate result of that is
youngblood.  He also had cable, the formulaic punisher/wolverine/terminator
type of anti-hero who is anti-social, mysterious and a killer.



	X-Force sold lots of books to distributors and direct-market 
stores.  True, these books didn't sell very well at the retail level
but with direct sales that means nothing.  If Malibu takes huge orders
for youngblood #1 based on expectations, they will have made back their
investment very quickly.   
	From the amount of X-Force books (1-up) I see various dealers stuck
with, I dont think at the retail level that it was doing very well.  I
was at a con in ft. worth recently and every issue of x-force was selling
for approx. .75 cents (except #1 with Cable card).  I know of two local
stores selling the issues all the way back to 2 for cover price.  I dont
mean that the book was necessarily not selling in high numbers, but the
sales were inflated by dealers over-ordering.
	Youngblood will die as soon as the retailers figure out that its
really not selling as good as they thought.

+>Given the time, effort, money and hype put into this book why didn't
+>Liefield do a better job? Surely and increase in his efforts and time
+>spent on the book could have rectified some of the problems with the
+>comic. I had read somewhere that "Youngblood" is really something
+>Liefield had done before his work at Marvel or DC. If so, why publish
+>such an early effort without a better reworking of it?

+>Sometimes he draws a good poster panel. Sometimes his action and poses
+>display a high energy look. I think with some real constuctive
+>feedback and some real art training he could be a good comic book artist.

+>Other observations out there?

	The paper and production quality on the book was very high and 
generally better than the art deserved.  But at what the book cost, I 
dont think it was quite worth the price.

	The book is the Liefeld formula again.  Lots of "banter" rather
than dialog.  Lots of posing and action shots and lots of "fighting".
Lots of one-dimensional throwaway characters.  No cable-type to center
the book on though and I think that was a major mistake.
From: tbroudy@lust.reed.edu (Timothy Malcolm Broudy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: SOME NEAT STUFF IN THE NEW PREVIEWS (no spoilers)
Date: 8 Apr 92 07:20:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Apr8.072052.9509
Distribution: na
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Apr4.002849.16255@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>  
kogutt@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SCAVENGER) writes:
> June is lookin' to be a neat month.
> 
> In Marvel's future:
> ANN NOCENTI returns!!!
> She's doing What if? #40 "What if Storm had remained a thief?"
> then she starts up a new storyline in MCP
> 	"WOLVERINE AND TYPHOID MARY"
.. I hope not. Typhoid Mary, that is...
..unless it's another one of Wolverine's ever-increasing stories from the  
past...
I tend to think that they should just leave Typhoid w/Daredevil 297.
(...But it's Marvel... ugh.)
From: douga@yang.earlham.edu (Doug Atkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Cerebus thoughts
Date: 12 Apr 92 22:45:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: yang.1992Apr12.174554.16893
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Lion of Serrea

In article <KDDHBVQ6@cc.swarthmore.edu>, jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand) writes:
> damiller@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dale J Miller) writes:
>> It seems to be a general concensus that Cerebus, Cirin, and S. Po are the 
>> three, but as I read it, there are four major belief systmes in the world.  
>> Cerebus/Tarimite, Cirin/Terimite, Po/Illusionist, and then there is Astoria and
>> Kevillism.  Does that place Astoria on par with the aardvarks?
> 
> 	A quote from one of the dream issues in Church and State. (78
> perhaps?) "Astoria is off changing the baby... She's trying to change it
> into another aardvark." Hmm, you don't suppose this means that she's trying
> to raise Kevillism up to the importance of the other religions? Very odd.
> 
> -Jeff
	She's certainly trying (very trying), but she's not there yet.  I 
doubt she'll make it, either.  (I mean, even assuming that she had a free 
hand to work...) She'd like to be on a high level of importance, but she's 
not a direct leader the way Cirin (and Cerebus in his better moments) are. 
In the long run, it seems that subtlety isn't the way to _really_ grab 
power in Estarcion.  Weisshaupt was subtle, and look where he is now.  If 
he'd had the balls to use the cannons more quickly... (well, if he had, 
reading 230 issues of blank pages would be dull).
	The really successful (in the long run, again) leaders seem to be 
those who directly use power.  Look at some of the leaders we've seen:

	K'cor: "I attribute my success to the fact that I'm the only one 
in my city not addicted to mind-numbing drugs."
	Cirin: Very direct.  Also the main power in Iest, Lower Felda, and 
who knows where else.
	Lord Julius: All right for now, but he "confuses staying one jump 
ahead of the opposition with real leadership." Sadly, it'll probably get 
him in the end.
	Duke Leonardi: Upid-stay or-fay _ure-shay._  Dumb luck.  I don't 
give him long odds either.
	Elrod: As direct as you get, and "the most charismatic and popular 
swordsman in Estarcion."  Not a leader, but he's successful.
	Weisshaupt: A manipulator.  Burning in hell, if Cerebus had his way.
	Astoria: Another manipulator.  Rotting in prison, isn't she?
	
	The evidence seems to bear out Weisshaupt: the mundane is 
triumphing over the sublime, "like a wonderfully allegorical play that 
suddenly turns into a Punch and Judy show" (or whatever the exact line is).
			--Doug
"Howard the Duck, you stand accused of terminal negativism.  How do you plead?"
"Not guilty--by reason of sanity."
			--Steve Gerber
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Claremont
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:29:16 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <910252m.6.703274707@ace.acadiau.ca> 910252m@ace.acadiau.ca (DWAYNE ALLAN MAC KINNON) writes:


+>     Since most of you seem to be more in touch with the comics world then I 
+>am, (I am a university student on a VERY tight budget), could anyone tell me 
+>why Chris Claremont has stopped doing ANYTHING for Marvel? I recently had a 
+>chance to talk to him (in March, at Wolfcon V) and when I asked him what he 
+>had planned for the future, everything he talked about was DC. I checked 
+>out a few things afterwards, and found out he left the X-Men. What's going 
+>on? (In case you're wondering, the only reason I'm asking this now is that I'
+>m new to the net. I only found it two days ago.)

	[This is mostly based on rumors of course. ]

	He left due to a power struggle with the editor of the x-men
	related books [Bob Harris].  In general terms Marvel was playing
	him off against Jim Lee and sticking a big hand into the plotting
	and writing of the book.  Marvel wanted Magneto turned into a 
	villian and Xavier in a wheelchair.....clairmont wanted neither of
	these changes.  Reportedly, the editor told Jim Lee to play fast
	and loose with clairmonts plots/stories in whatever way he saw 
	fit which added to the problems.  Claremont left and reportedly
	will not return unless Bob Harris goes as editor.

	Harris's position in controlling a large part of the "mutant" books
	gives him considerable "power" with the creative people and parts
	of the editorial staff.

	Under the rules that marvel works by currently, Clairmont has no
	value while Harris is irreplacable.  That may be backwards, but
	its the way things work.  The idea is that the x-men are going to
	be popular and are going to be bought as long as there are "hot"
	names on the book (any "hot" name will do).  

	A really interesting trend in marvel is the fracturing of the 
	company into smaller groups of books like the "mutant" line and
	the spider-man line and the "Punisher" line.  More and more 
	there are marvel (universes) rather than one universe.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.comics:13419 news.groups:10467
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Tanukijin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,news.groups
Subject: Re: SPLIT: Proposed charter and poll
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:38:39 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Apr16.152319.3015@u.washington.edu>, gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....) writes:
> In article <lis.703425597@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> lis@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Elisabeth Riba) writes:
> >michaele@nsg.nsg.com.au (Michael Edwards) writes:
> >>NOW is the time to discuss this - it makes sense to split rec.arts.comics.
> >>	rec.arts.comics.manga
> >>	rec.arts.comics.misc

Shouldn't this be rec.arts.comics.asian?  Not all asian comics are manga, nor
all manga are asian comics (Iain and Patrick, you agree?).

> >>	rec.arts.comics.super-heroes
> >Sounds good--two changes, though...
> >Make r.a.c.s into .superheroes or .superhero.  No hyphen.  I prefer
> >the latter (we are discussing "superhero comics")

Not to mention that "super-hero" is a joint trademark of DC and Marvel...

BTW, non-superhero comics published by the Big 2 would go
under the "misc" newsgroup.  That includes SANDMAN and HELLBLAZER.
(Yes, they've been known to have supers from time to time, but those
crossovers are infrequent.)

> >Add rec.arts.comics.reviews.  Possibly moderated.
> >What do others think of this?

Good idea.  But I don't think there's enough traffic to support it.
Maybe we could put the reviews into the moderated rec.arts.comics.info
newsgroup?

> 	I'd add r.a.c.cards or something like that to draw off discussion of
> trading cards and other merchandising....

I'm not sure trading cards discussion should go under the rec.arts. hierarchy
anyway.  Rec.collecting.cards?  Comments?
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		   Disclaimer:  You're not dealing with AT&T.