HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tovey@mullauna.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Gadget)
Subject: Re: Mystic Cyclone Problem !
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:37:47 GMT

mcsbc3maw@dct.ac.uk writes:

>Anyway this Voulge armed Mystic (Master Level Proficiency , L9 character)
>, double hasted (Potion and Spell) Waltzed in doing about 180 points
>of damage a round . The Dwarf was Stunned into silence as were the rest of
>us . The only guy more supprised was the GM!

>	Is there anything my poor over-stressed GM can do to handle this
>Cyclone , other than not letting any more potions of speed into the party ?

Well, HASTE always has been an awfully effective spell for a fighter...
A previous character of mine was a Kensai, which means that her ki power
allowed her to do max damage on a strike. With a high thaco (easy for a
kensai) and multiple attacks, the damage points add up quickly. Very
quickly. She never used haste, but it sure would have made a deadly
combination!

If I were the DM I'd probably attack the haste magic - perhaps multiple
hastings have the possibility of a nasty side-effect, or too many hastes
in too short a period is bad - for the caster, for the person - maybe
it makes him/her sick, dizzy, disoreintated - something he/she doesn't
want to do too often? Maybe Chronos, the Lord of Time objects to this
abuse of temporal powers? Then again, in a couple of levels, when the
mages start to get instant death magics, and really powerful spells,
maybe it won't matter much. In fact, in a couple of levels, things can
get downright boring for a fighter without a few quirks!

Gadget
Matt Tovey             |  Commpower Engineering | tovey@mullauna.cs.mu.OZ.AU
Voice: 61-3-419-4716   |  Melbourne,            | "Tomorrow's ideas on
Fax:   61-3-419-4716   |  Australia.            |       yesterday's technology"
Hone:  61-3-417-6528   |                        |
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: John_Morgan@mindlink.bc.ca (John Morgan)
Subject: DungeonQuest
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 09:12:56 GMT

Can somebody out there tell me where I can find modules for this game?
I find it enjoyable for sitting down with my wife and kids ( ages 6 and 13 )
or a six-pack and a bunch of friends.  So anybody who can help me, your help
would be greatly appreciated.


--
######################################################################
#                        #                   ARMY                    #
#  John Morgan           #              Another fine game            #
#  a345@mindlink.uucp    #              By Milton Bradley            #
#                        #                 Ages 17 & up              #
########################################
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: dagolden@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Alexandre Golden)
Subject: Re: Question about HP (Falling Damage)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 18:06:55 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.221320.269529@sue.cc.uregina.ca> bachelu@mercury.cs.uregina.ca (Blaine Bachelu) writes:
>In article <19775@mindlink.bc.ca> Clayten_Hamacher@mindlink.bc.ca (Clayten Hamacher) writes:

>>Looks to me like TSR meant damage to be 1d6 * (height/10') instead of the 1d6
>>+ 2d6 etc...
>>
>Actually it looks like (height/10')d6 ---> 1d6 at 10ft

>While what you just said would be --->1d6*1 at 10 ft

Ahem.  Yes, my typing got ahead of what I was thinking.  (h/10)d6.

And I have also not read Dragon to any extent whatsoever.  (Less of my $ in
T$R).  So I was not aware of the new falling rule.  Sure.  It seems more
realistic-- I mean, I doubt I could fall (much less jump down) 30' without
breaking or spraining something, and that's without armor.  Maybe if was
landing on something with a lot of give.  (Looking at a large bush outside
my window...)

D



-- 
David A. Golden '95           (dagolden@phoenix.princeton.edu)
Princeton University
From: IO11330@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (the DM)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Old Modules
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:15:32 GMT
 <93027.104159IO11330@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Organization: University of Maine System

Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 27 Jan 1993 12:07:52 EST
From: The illustrius Pat Ellis (the DM) <IO11330@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Old Moduels what will happen???

Well Another question for hte netlanders out there, with all of this
talk about T1-4 I have come up with yet another question?  Anyone out
ther have any clue as to TSR's plans for there older material??  Seems
to me that if they played things right, they could reissue most of the
classic's (the A's, I's, S's, etc.) in second edition format in about
four years or so.  In this way, many if not most new players would
consider this new material, they would have never seen it.  I hope TSR
does reprint stuff eventually, it really is a shame that such greats as
Ravenloft, the GDQ's and the Slavelords series will never been seen by
(most) future AD&Ders......

             Pat Ellis
type: dirm pw <enter>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: bapg3@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Eain Cathcart)
Subject: Multiple Attacks
Organization: University of Sussex
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:51:32 GMT

We tend to use the system whereby you roll a d10 for initiative and then
add weapon speed for the first attack, you then the add weapon speed
again for the second attack, and then again for any subsequent attacks.
Therefore if your fighter with a two-hander rolls a 5 for his initiative
he attacks on 15 (minus any adjustments for dex) and then again on 25.
The fighter with a short sword if he also rolls a 5 attacks on 8 and 11.
This system seems to work perfectly well in our game and is nice and
simple.


Best wishes,


W             W   I   BBBB    BBBB     L      EEEEE   |'I'M GOING SLIGHTLY
 W     W     W    I   B   B   B   B    L      E       | MAD'
  W   W W   W     I   BBBB    BBBB     L      EEEE    |
   W W   W W      I   B   B   B   B    L      E       |QUEEN, 1991.
    W     W       I   BBBB    BBBB     LLLLL  EEEEE   |

(GOSH I' M MODEST).

"PASS ME ANOTHER ELF SERGEANT, THIS ONE'S SPLIT." General Ashnak;
                                           in  Grunts by Mary Gentle.

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: gitzlaff@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jim Gitzlaff )
Subject: Net Wizard's Handbook 3rd Ed.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:47:54 GMT

It's up!  Thanks for all the suggestions from everybody out there.  I am in
the process of putting up different formats of the Net Wizard's Handbook 3rd
Ed right now.  Right now, "nwh3-ww2.zip" is on greyhawk.stanford.edu in the
/D_D/incoming directory.  This version is in Word for Windows ver 2.0 format.

Expect a PS version to go up tonight -- it will most likely be in pieces due
to its size.  I'll mess around with it for a while.  The PS version, since it's
aimed at people that don't do micros, will be ZOOed instead of ZIPed. 

To follow shortly afterwards:  either or both of a Wordperfect and Word/Mac
format.  No ASCII version planned (sorry).

To refresh your memories of what it contains....
     (1) Tons of alternatives to the standard AD&D system of spell casting,
	 including several spell point system, some systems based on
	 proficiency checks, and others as well.  These systems run in size
	 from the very short to the quite long, and have complexities to
	 match.
     (2) New nonweapon proficiencies designed (mostly) for use by wizards.
     (3) Magic Sects
     (4) The metamagician kit
All with a very nifty format, including imbedded illustrations, graphs, and
fonts.  Never settle for plain-vanilla ASCII ever again!

And remember -- I will always accept more submissions.  Send anything you
think is appropriate to Jim at gitzlaff@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu and we'll see how
long it takes to put NWH 4th Ed out.

Jim


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: phillips@stsci.edu
Subject: Multiple attacks:  an alternate view
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 14:10:29 GMT


	I've always thought of extra attacks that a fighter gets as being due
to skill (whether by level or specialization); if a fighter has more than one
attack per round with a weapon, it doesn't mean that he's swinging the weapon
faster, but that he's striking with more skill (beyond the to hit and damage
bonus in specialization).  Thus, a fighter specialized with a longsword doesn't
swing it faster than a non-specialized fighter; he just hits better.
	If a fighter has multiple attacks in a round, I have all of them occur
on the fighter's initiative.  I do the same for lions, for example, with their
claw/claw/bite & rake; it seems only fair to do the same with humans (it also
makes combat go faster--if you want "realism" in your combat, D&D is not the
place to be!  ;-).

--
Jim Phillips					phillips@avion.stsci.edu
	"Gee, that trick always worked before."
					-- Louie, "The Road To Macadamia"
Only 7(?) more days to "Hot Spells"!  More Morgana!  ;-)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: aa699@Freenet.carleton.ca (Michel Boucher)
Subject: Re: Temple of Elemental Evil
Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:05:30 GMT


Khaled, Temple of Elemental Evil is designed to take characters
from level 1 (Village of Hommlet) through to level 8 or 10.
It's actually a great module for starting characters, but they
have to proceed through most of it with caution.

Michel
-- 
C. Michel Boucher               | aa699@freenet.carleton.ca
<no affiliation>                | alsandor@micor.ocunix.on.ca
Ottawa, Ontario                 |
CANADA                          | member, Muriel Moreno fan club
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Experience Points for Spell Research
Date: 25 Jan 93 03:37:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.cfMyoVO00VpL0KzHAi
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


wgarrett@cs.cornell.edu (William F. Garrett) writes:
> How many experience points should a mage earn for researching an
> original spell?  Various sources (incl. 1st & 2nd ed rulebooks)
> suggest the following options:
> 
>         a)  100 XP * spell level
>         b)  200 XP * spell level
>         c)  500 XP * spell level
>         d)  100 XP * (spell level)^2
>         e)  200 XP * (spell level)^2
> 
> Schedule A seems too tight-fisted,
Yes.

> while schedule C is too generous for low-level mages.  
Is it?  Depends.  If research takes a month, a 1st/2nd level mage
picks up 500 xp, and a 3rd level one picks up 1000.  This doesn't seem
too bad, considering the mage has spent a month doing nothing but
research and has blown a large sum of money.

> D and E look like good choices for 1st and 2nd level
> spells, but might give too many XP's for higher level spells.
Someone else covered this, and I agree.  This doesn't give out much
for high level spells.  Method e gives 16,200 xp for a spell, or 4.3%
of the xp needed.  For comparison, that's equivalent to a first level
mage getting 108 xp for researching a first level spell.  This assumes
people are advancing at the same rate, irregardless of level, which
probably isn't true.  But this is also assuming the 9th level spell
also takes 1 month to research, so the two factors balance somewhat.

	joe
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: jdelacr@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Jorge DeLaCruz)
Subject: Re: Two-Weapon Combo
Organization: The Great Beyond
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:25:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.132420.13678@syma.sussex.ac.uk> bapg3@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Eain Cathcart) writes:
>	In the campaign that I'm currently helping to run we are about to
>introduce rules for parrying and for fighting with two weapons. I would
>be interested in any ideas or suggestions that you might have.
>

    With two weapons of different speeds, we usually say to use the slower
  speed to make it easier.  Unless one of the Swords is a Blade of Quickness,
  then the Player can keep track of one speed (the other sword is always first).

    With Parrying in any Weapon Style, we have the Player State in advace that
   he is saving an attack for Parry (we have them use an attack to parry), if
   no parry is needed then the attack is lost.  We make it that you have to beat   the attacks roll.  He Rolls a 15 and has +2 to Hit (17), you roll a 16 and
    have no plus, you are Hit. But a Natural 20 can only be Parryed by a 
   Natural 20.  If the one Parrying Fumbles (rolls a 1), we usually don't have
   anything happen, but you can say he lost the weapon.


						Hope it Helps
						Jorge


>	Munchkin ideas will be appreciated for laughter value, but I
>would prefer sensible suggestios if possible.
>
>Share and enjoy,
From: danw@sierra.com (Dan Williams - Contractor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Question about hit points
Date: 19 Jan 93 19:57:37 GMT
Organization: Sierra Geophysics Inc.,  Kirkland, Wa

Ryan Workman says

>What are hit points really suppose to represent?
>
>Why would a fireball normally kill a 0 level fighter while just singing a
>10th level fighter?
>
>Both would have equal chance of "avoiding" or defending against such an
>attack.  There seems to be an incongruency here.  Can anyone help?
>
>I usually think of hit points as skill in fighting w.r.t. one's health.
>
0 levels have no skills.  Their HPs have to be body points.  
Constitution bounus is multiplied by level.  This makes it a learned
attribute past level 1.  Characters with con learn how to use it to their
atvantage in fights.  
Hit points for new levels must represent Training and experience.  But they
may also represent interest in the character from various supernatural
beings, or some form of karma gained from their actions. 
-- 

Have You hugged your dragon today?
---------------------------/\/\__/\/\-----------------------------------------
Daniel J. Williams         \/0~__~0\/   These opinionated statements are mine!
From: jskinner@starbird.WPI.EDU (James Bryan Skinner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: LaTeX Net.MU|PR spellbooks v5
Date: 24 Jan 1993 02:05:33 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: starbird.wpi.edu

In article <C1BAJx.FD8@dcs.ed.ac.uk> smp@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Samuel Penn) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.144938.5672@daimi.aau.dk> u920558@daimi.aau.dk (Thomas Due) writes:
>>jskinner@starbird.WPI.EDU (James Bryan Skinner) writes:
>>
>>>I'm planning on translating the new Net.Spellbooks into LaTeX format along
>>>with any other spells I can get my hands on for the spell-point system in
>>>my upcoming campaign at WPI.  First, is there already a translation of the
>>>new spells in Net.Spellbook (other than the ones in Frost)?  Second, would
>>>anyone out there be interested in getting a copy of this when I'm done (in
>>>a month ot two)?
>>
>>I would certainly like to have a copy in LaTeX :)
>>
>
>How about a copy in ASCII text (or even better, an Impression document)?
>All the spellbooks I've looked at seem to be in tex, latex format etc,
>and ASCII would be a lot easier to convert to my own computer.
>
Well, Net.Spellbook.v5 is already in ASCII format.  And, like I said before
I'm not posting any official spells to the Net.  I might consider posting
an ASCII version of the description of my spell point system and the spell
cost lists and changes though.

Jim

>
>-- 
>
>Sam (aka The Eternal Halfling).  | "Ilharessen zhaunhil alurl"
>smp@uk.ac.ed.dcs                 | ---------------------------
>samuelp@uk.ac.ed.castle          |   STMFD junk,{intel,unix}
From: smp@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Samuel Penn)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: LaTeX Net.MU|PR spellbooks v5
Date: 23 Jan 93 14:50:21 GMT
Reply-To: smp@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Samuel Penn)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1993Jan21.144938.5672@daimi.aau.dk> u920558@daimi.aau.dk (Thomas Due) writes:
>jskinner@starbird.WPI.EDU (James Bryan Skinner) writes:
>
>>I'm planning on translating the new Net.Spellbooks into LaTeX format along
>>with any other spells I can get my hands on for the spell-point system in
>>my upcoming campaign at WPI.  First, is there already a translation of the
>>new spells in Net.Spellbook (other than the ones in Frost)?  Second, would
>>anyone out there be interested in getting a copy of this when I'm done (in
>>a month ot two)?
>
>I would certainly like to have a copy in LaTeX :)
>

How about a copy in ASCII text (or even better, an Impression document)?
All the spellbooks I've looked at seem to be in tex, latex format etc,
and ASCII would be a lot easier to convert to my own computer.


-- 

Sam (aka The Eternal Halfling).  | "Ilharessen zhaunhil alurl"
smp@uk.ac.ed.dcs                 | ---------------------------
samuelp@uk.ac.ed.castle          |   STMFD junk,{intel,unix}
From: jfox@sumax.seattleu.edu (<-----Shadoxx----->)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: A copy of PBeM Wanted.
Date: 21 Jan 1993 14:42:55 -0800
Organization: Seattle University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sumax.seattleu.edu

From jfox Thu Jan 21 14:05:56 1993
Received: by sumax.seattleu.edu id AA23173
  (5.65a/IDA-1.4.2 for jfox); Thu, 21 Jan 93 14:05:54 -0800
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 14:05:54 -0800
From: "<jfox@seattleu.edu>" <jfox@seattleu.edu>
Message-Id: <9301212205.AA23173@sumax.seattleu.edu>
To: jfox
Subject: TVI905:rec.games.frp.dnd
Status: R


Could someone send me a copy of the PBeM "how to" post.
The person who does is included in my game: In the campagin in Undermountain,
	Forgotten Realms.
Just as soon as I get it sorted out, and stock the dungeon.
Depending on how soon I get a copy, will be posting for players. Probabaly two
	or three more.

		Shadoxx<-----AKA----->jfox@seattleu.edu
	Shadoxx The Wizard of Wit ......
Sit down and ask yourself: "Do I really exist?"

Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.dnd:8351 rec.games.frp.misc:11408 rec.games.frp:25317
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd,rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp
Subject: Review cancelled
Date: 21 Jan 93 07:30:13 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Lekskola, G|teborg, G|taland


  It is my sad duty to announce that my third yearly nasty review of the
TSR catalogue has been cancelled as a protest against their latest insanity:
The store here got only one example of the softback and a few of the hardback
(Pay? No way!).

  Besides, I looked at it and it seems that they have put a lid on some of the
worst excesses of "The munchk.. eh gamers will beat your doors down trying
to get their hands on 'Forgotten Greyhawk Drow Pinup Photos 3rd edition'.
A surefire bestseller!"-type language so it wouldn't have been as fun as it
used to be.

  Does anybodu know if Palladium got a 'retailers only' catalogue? :)

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: adray@mcs.kent.edu (Adam Dray)
Subject: Re: WANTED: munchkin generator
Reply-To: adray@mcs.kent.edu
Organization: Kent State University CS
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:06:08 GMT

In article <2678@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
> 
> 	Of course munchkins use intelligence. Where else do you get all those
> extra proficiency slots?

=)


> 	And the #define is wrong; 18 isn't even worth bothering with. Only
> girly-man pretend munchkins think an 18 matters.

I wouldn't know.  
					Adam.


-- 
adray@mcs.kent.edu            The word is my oyster,
                              and meaning is
                              a tiny grain of sand.
From: jjas@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu (Jason Stephenson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Question about HP (Falling Damage)yes
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:17:16 GMT
	<1993Jan22.175354.4011@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
	<1993Jan25.225112.7466@gw.wmich.edu>
Organization: Boston University Information Technology Boston, MA USA
In-reply-to: x92joslin@gw.wmich.edu's message of 26 Jan 93 03:51:11 GMT

I have palyed ADnD since 1980, not that it matters, and have always
done falling damage 1d6 per ten feet cumulative.  I believe it says
somewhere in the original DMs' Guide or PHB about it being cumulative.
(I don't have them with me at the moment; they're close to a thousand
miles in the lair of the dragon--my room at my parents' home in
Kentucky.)  Anyway, if you think about the subject in terms of actual
(i.e. Earth gravity) falling it should be cumulative (due to
acceleration) up to a maximum of close to 900D6 upon impact.  However,
I find a max of 150D6 more than adequate.
From: u920558@daimi.aau.dk (Thomas Due)
Subject: Re: LaTeX Net.MU|PR spellbooks v5
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 14:49:38 GMT

jskinner@starbird.WPI.EDU (James Bryan Skinner) writes:

>I'm planning on translating the new Net.Spellbooks into LaTeX format along
>with any other spells I can get my hands on for the spell-point system in
>my upcoming campaign at WPI.  First, is there already a translation of the
>new spells in Net.Spellbook (other than the ones in Frost)?  Second, would
>anyone out there be interested in getting a copy of this when I'm done (in
>a month ot two)?

I would certainly like to have a copy in LaTeX :)

-- 
###########################################################################
###  Beware of the dark! You never know what it hides...                ###
###  For contact : u920558@daimi.aau.dk        Thomas Due/The Nightmare ###
###########################################################################
From: young@spinifex.dg.oz (Philip Young)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Question about HP (Falling Damage)yes
Date: 28 Jan 93 01:27:19 GMT
Organization: Data General Australia

In article <JJAS.93Jan26091716@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu>, jjas@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu (Jason Stephenson) writes:
|> I have palyed ADnD since 1980, not that it matters, and have always
|> done falling damage 1d6 per ten feet cumulative.  I believe it says
|> somewhere in the original DMs' Guide or PHB about it being cumulative.
|> [...] Anyway, if you think about the subject in terms of actual
|> (i.e. Earth gravity) falling it should be cumulative (due to
|> acceleration) up to a maximum of close to 900D6 upon impact.  However,
|> I find a max of 150D6 more than adequate.

Far beyond adequate, it's excessive.  ADND recognizes the existence of both
air and gravity.  Air resistance gives a human-sized and -shaped body a 
terminal velocity of about 200mph (+ or -, depending on attitude {does this
mean nasty characters fall faster? 8^}).  That's about 300 ft/sec. Now, with
g = 32 ft/sec/sec, and with initial velocity 0, one would fall about 30'
in the first second.  That's (1+2+3)D6 by the cumulative rule.

Now clearly, the cumulative rule exists to exemplify the idea that damage
is proportional to impact velocity, and acknowledges gravitic acceleration.
The problem is that such a "cumulative" series is a poor approximation of
a geometric relationship (Vt = Vi+0.5gt**2).  So let's take 6D6 as the
damage after falling one second (a bit severe, 0-level humans have been
known to survive a 32' fall), and solve for the time it takes to
reach terminal velocity.  Another fudge, since air resistance
effects are more pronounced at higher velocities, but anyway ...

	300 = 0 + 16t**2, giving  t**2 = 18.75, or t = 4.33 sec.

The upshot is that after about 5 sec you reach terminal velocity.  If you
consider damage is proportional to velocity, and damage after one second
is 6D6, then damage after 5 seconds is only 5x6 = 30D6, and that's the
maximum.  You could fiddle with these figures, since there's no absolute
reason to choose "damage after falling one second" as the intersection
point between rules and reality, but it seems reasonable to me.  600D6 is
simply ridiculous, but so is 150D6.  Remember, Douglas Bader survived a
fall of about 18,000 feet (from memory) (OK, so it was onto branches,
snow etc. but even so ...).
 
-- 
Philip R. Young                   | Sir Lloyne might ham it up, 
Data General Australia Pty. Ltd.  | but he brings home the bacon.
 
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd