From: baha@bcsaic.boeing.com (Jahanshah Darvish)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: RE: BAHAIS: Real or Economic Refugees?
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:03:59 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle


Asad <abbasa@ul.ie> writes :
>
>Bahais claim that
>
> 1) In Iran, they have been deprived not only of religious
>    freedom and basic human rights but they are also being
>    harassed, prosecuted, and even killed at a massive scale only
>    because they have different religion.
>
> 2) Because of that they have no choice but to flee from that
>    country.
>

The number of Baha'is who are prosecuted, kicked out of
their houses, put to jail, harassed, stripped of their human
dignity, etc. because of their SPIRITUAL belief is far
more than the number of Baha'is executed.  The total number
of Baha'is executed is about 230.  The total number of
Bahais in Iran who are subject to this kind of attitude are over
half a million . The total number of Baha'is and Babis who
were executed in the early days of the Faith, around 1840 to
1860, was more than 20,000. (Sorry you can't accuse them
of being spies for the state of Israel! because there was no
Israel then !)

>
>*IF* above allegations are correct, then one could conclude that
>
>  1) there should not be single Bahai left in Iran by now
>
>  2) And there should be huge concentration of Bahais refugees
>    in the neighbouring countries.

>BUT we see that even today maximum number of Bahai are in Iran

Wrong again.  The biggest number of Baha'is live in India !

>This is quite contrary to what we saw when a situation similar to
>the alleged happened in Iraq, Bosnia etc.  In these cases there was
>a huge exodus of people from troubled countries to neighbouring
>countries.  The number of people who got refuge in the west was
negligible
>as compared to those who were lying miserably in camps in surrounding
>countries.                                  ^^^^^^^^
>

In my opinion comparing the Baha'is in Iran with the Moslems
in Bosnia is like comparing apples and oranges.  The Baha'is
were not even allowed to leave Iran period.  No Passport was given
to them and those who had passports could not obtain exit permits
(khorooji). On the other hand the Moslems in Bosnia were at least
allowed to save their lives and the lives of their children and go
seek refuge somewhere else in the world.  I have remembered them
(the Bosnian Moslems) in my prayers and my heart bleeds for their
sufferings.

Also Asad, what makes you think that the neighboring Moslem
countries are any friendlier towards the Baha'is than the IRI ?
Quite a few number of Baha'is were massacred by the Iraqi
Government couple of decades ago !

On top of that the Universal House of Justice ordered the Baha'is of
Iran to stay and do NOT leave Iran.  The Baha'is of Iran obliged and
stayed.

Conclusion: This IF-Then construct fails according to the all
well-known logics of the east and the west. (including fuzzy logic).

>In case of Bahais the number of people who are in  neighbouring
>countries is inconsequential as compared to those who made their
>fortune by entering the west.  Even if there are a few people in
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You might not believe it but there are number of Baha'is who are living
below the minimum standard of living.  I can name hundreds of Baha'is
who escaped from Iran and left ALL of their belongings in Iran for the
IRI just to save the future of their children. It is no secret that
quite a few Baha'is are well-educated and bright.  And when they are 
forced to move, they start a business or carry with their professional lives
and earned an honest living. Now if you want to link good education with
fortune, I can buy that. But to claim that they left Iran because of 
economic reason, it would be quite ridiculous.

>these countries, they are using them as a transit on their way
>to the west.
>

The Baha'is all over the world consider each other as one family.
To open up their house to a fellow Baha'i who has just lost everything,
including parents, children, cousin, and has been the subject public
humiliation, ....  is nothing.

>BTW: It is a general observation that a big share of people who
>get refuge in the west come from those countries which are at odd
>with the west.  Does it mean that human rights are well-respected
>in all friendly countries?

Well I don't know about Ireland, but in the United States, with all its
shortcomings, you can still practice your religion without being
executed (like a computer program as Seyyed put it).

Sincerely,

Jahanshah.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian