HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Class III again
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:45:43 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:

#How much does an already-registered auto-sear cost? I would imagine
#it will be hundreds, if not thousands, times higher than the auto-sear
#cost itself. Two more questions follow:

 I have seen registered recievers at Knob Creek for appx $700 in October.

#(1) If I empty my checking account to purchase an already-register auto-sear
#    and go through all the legal processes to transer the title ( is this
#    the correct term? ) to me, will I have to pay such a high premium again to
#    purchase a new one after the old auto-sear breaks?

 Thats my understanding of it. A friend and myself have been discussing
this very topic. When you buy a registered reciever, you can readily replace
all the internal parts (as they wear out).


#(2) Am I expected to receive lots of trouble from the law enforcement people?
#    Will my name appear in some sort of list? Is the rock-'n-roll fun worth 
#    the troubles?

 Funny you should ask. :(
 We happen to live in a city whose police chief refuses to sign a Form 4
 (used to register an class III item and pay the tax).
 After over a year of fighting it, obtaining a lawyer, and exploring other
 options (people who can sign). A letter from Wayne Miller of the BATF said
 that the chief could refuse to sign if he wanted to. Even though we have
 proof that he is signing for some people.

#Happy, safe, and responsible shooting,
#David
From: m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:17:43 GMT
Organization: The Next Challenge, Fairfax, Va.



One favorite practical joke at the range (when they were available)
was to take a small box of black powder and stick it to the paper
target.  These were intended for use by farmers to scare off wildlife
eating thier crops.

It was great fun watching the reaction when the shooter's .22LR caused
the target to disappear in a flame.    B-)

Frank Ney N4ZHG EMT-P  LPVa NRA ILA GOA CCRTKBA "M-O-U-S-E"
Commandant and Acting President, Northern Virginia Free Militia
Send e-mail for an application and more information
----------------------------------------------------------------
"...I am opposed to all attempts to license or restrict the arming of
individuals...I consider such laws a violation of civil liberty, 
subversive of democratic political institutions, and self-defeating
in their purpose."
        - Robert Heinlein, in a 1949 letter concerning "Red Planet"
-- 
The Next Challenge - Public Access Unix in Northern Va. - Washington D.C.
703-803-0391 To log in for trial and account info.
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Laser Guns (was Re: Arrow proof? Re: Bullet Proof Vests)
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:06:14 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <199211081930.AA07768@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
#In article <1992Nov5.205146.6186@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
 
##I vaguely remember a Pop Science article from a few years back 
##that had a 'laser turret' on a tank body (this was reputed to 
##be acutal pictures of real DOD development systems) that was
##able to shoot down drone airplanes...
#
#That would be MIRACLE (Mid InfraRed ? Chemicle LasEr). It was actually
#ship mounted.

The published photograph was quite clearly a tank.  Unless they've
started putting tank treds on ships an running them around in
the dust ...

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: jdg00@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Josh Grosse)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:01:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: juts.m0mq4Fn-0000lJC

I have a personal antipathy towards alt groups due to S/N problems; I prefer
to keep you as moderator.  An unmoderated group would become t.p.g. II, and
that's not needed.  I'm constantly suprised by the amount of stuff that you
publish, and amazed you ever have the time for gentle editorializing, which
I like.

So there's my vote, for what it's worth!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse                                jdg00@amail.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp.                               313-358-4440
Southfield, Michigan
From: mlh6@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael L. Haynes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Trajectory question
Date: 8 Nov 92 13:26:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)


Oh   Boy,        
	If I've missed something some where tell me but in
 apas612@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu (Frank W. Douma)
 reportedly says:"There is no recoil from a firearm until the
 projectile leaves the muzzle, regardless of what it feels
 like. R He further states that this has been posted on the net
 before and seems to indicate that this is the consensus
 after some discussion on this thread.  THIS IS ABSOLUTELY
 INCORRECT.  This simple dynamics problem can be attacked
 by assuming either a closed or open system. Since misuse of
 the closed system, ie. bullet+gas+gun=system,( lets ignore
 the shooter for the minute)  usually leads to the most
 common misconceptions about recoil, I'll use it.  Simple
 physics states that the CENTER OF MASS of the system will
 stay motionless.  Since the projectile and the gas are part
 of the system, and they are accelerating, it is absolutely
 necessary that the gun accelerate in the opposite direction
 as soon as the POWDER FIRES so as to keep the center of
 mass in the same location.  The amount of effect this has on
 the trajectory is dependent on many things.  I once
 calculated our the effect for my dads single shot .22 and it
 is small( OK its been 10 years and I don't remember the #'s)
 but noticeable and is effected by the bullet weight, the
 powder charge, the distance of the center of mass of the
 weapon from the center of force ( of the charge) and the
 relative masses of the gun and the bullet.  This effect is
 usually masked by the reflexive flinch in most recreational
 shooters.  Experiment:  Have someone hand load for you 20
 times without letting you watch.  Randomly, on 2 of those
 occasions have them place in used casings.  95% of us (  OK,
 for you statistics sticklers out there, maybe only
 94.4325%) myself included any more, will watch the barrel
 "kick up" a small amount as we fire an empty gun..... 


	Some where, on the net, I also remember someone
 mentioning that they had heard that effect is true for long
 guns but not hand weapons. This is also not quite true. As
 soon as the powder fires, the acceleration of the weapon
 starts.  However, since the barrel of a hand gun is shorter it
 has less time to move before the bullet leaves the barrel
 and hence the effect on the trajectory is less pronounced.
 Also,(conjecture)  since a long arm has a longer
 barrel(imagine that!), it also has a longer lever arm and
 hence is POSSIBLY able to cause more angular acceleration
 in the weapon resulting, in even more pronounced effect. 
 This would again be dependent on the distance of the
 midline of the barrel from the centers of mass and inertia.  
 

	Well hope this helps out,

					Mike.
From: poppg@columbia.dsu.edu (GARY POPP)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: FYI
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:24:25 GMT
Organization: Dakota State University

Howdy
	
	I just wanted to let everybody know that if they have any gun work 
to be done, I know of a gunsmith in Mitchell that does exceptional work.  He 
does everything from general cleaning to trigger work all around the US 
and Canada.  His business is called Everson Gunsmithing.  If 
you have any questions, give him a call or write him a line.

Everson Gunsmithing
2400 N. Main
Mitchell, SD  57301

ph. # (605)996-1107
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why are there no reliable semi-auto shotguns?
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:20:00 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1992Nov8.083354.24874@netcom.com> tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler) writes:
#In <25499@sybase.sybase.com> mtxinu!sybase!joe@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Joseph Weinstein) writes:
#
#
##Why are there no highly reliable semi-auto shotguns
##for defence?
#
#	There is at least one: the Benelli M1 Super 90.
#

Make that TWO - I love my Beretta 1200FP.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle recommendations for DCM Matches?
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:01:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: ra.1992Nov6.173821.5951
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In article <5NOV199212520723@venus.lerc.nasa.gov> smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) writes:
#<1992Nov5.055012.28428@u.washington.edu>, ericj@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Johnson) writes...
##I plan on buying a rifle for use in  DCM/Highpower matches. 
##I want an accurate, cheap rifle that meets the rules for service rifle.
##I'm pretty much torn between an Enfield #4, and a 96 Swedish Mauser.
#
#The only rifles that are allowed as service rifles in DCM/NRA matches are the
#M1, M14/M1A and M16/AR15.  The Enfield and M96 are considered as match rifles
#in NRA matches. Only service rifles are allowed in the DCM leg matches. Other
#DCM matches may allow match rifles. I'm not sure if any caliber other than .30
#cal service or match rifles is DCM-affiliated club highpower matches. I have a
#document called "Approved courses of fire for Civilian Marksmanship Training"
#and it does not mention the 5.56 Nato round! You should call the DCM to make
#sure. 

Stefan,
 A DCM (club) match is not an Excellence in Competition Match (a.k.a. Leg
Match). A Leg Match is a Service Rifle Match and only NRA Rule 3.1 rifles
may be used (i.e. M-14/M1A, M1 & M-16/AR-15). The DCM's "Approved Courses
for Civilian Marksmanship Training" approves the use of the Garand, '03
Springfield, the M-14 "or any rifle meeting the requirements of Rule 3.3
NRA High Power Rifle Rules..." Rule 3.3 defines the NRA Match Rifle.
Either the SMLE or M96 Mauser easily qualify under this rule.

I would like to point out that the DCM's "Approved Courses.." is not
"gospel". Several years ago I pointed out to an individual  in the 
DCM (no names but his initials are M.R.) that all the courses that
used the A-1000 target were in error.  The A-1000 is a 5-point target
and they had figured 100 points for 10 rounds. I was told to just
double all the scores. To date the regulation has not been amended.
Similarly I was informed that we had to provide SMALLBORE scores for
10 juniors. When I pointed out that their regulation only stipulated
that the juniors had to fire an approved rifle course, I was informed
that it had to be SMALLBORE "because that's the way it has always been
done." Anyway, I'm off the point.

The point is that either the SMLE or M96 may be used in club sponsored
DCM affiliated Highpower matches. Scores fired with these guns may be
reported and used to qualify to purchase an M1 Garand.  I would use a
#4 SMLE because I prefer the "peep" sight and the SMLE action is much
faster than the M96 in rapid fire stages. Neither gun, as issued, would
make a serious NMC (600 yard) competition gun but either would  hold
the black in 100/200 yard matches.
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * The one who dies with the most toys
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * has accomplished nothing beyond
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * enslaving himself to his possessions.
From: mxb1517@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.X. Blair)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Fletchette
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:52:26 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

In article <1992Nov10.073319.3735@pro-amber.cts.com> rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (Randolph Sopicki) writes:
#I need some help settling a question we have.
#During Vietnam there was a fletchette type of weapon or round.
#I contend it was a paarticular round that was made for the M79 for the
#recoiless and other systems. My running mate says it there was a
#"fletchette weapon."

	If I remember correctly, you're both right.  There were, and still 
are, fletchette rounds of various calibers still in inventory today that
were used in 'Nam.  Also, there was a weapon delivery system - I believe
it was called the Ontos (sp?) - which was designed to be an
anti-personnel weapon. It looked like a self-propelled track with four
barrels, two per side, with a two-man crew.  It fired steel fletchettes
at some obscene rate - Wasn't used much, though.  (I wish I could
remember more of the details about the weapon - it's been a while
since I've seen the specs on it.)

-- 
| Another contribution from: | "Come into my world and take a journey with me.
| mikeb@ritcsh.csh.rit.edu   |  Paint me a portrait now of the things you see.
| mikeb@nick.csh.rit.edu     |  ... Tell me what this place was meant to be.
| mxb1517@ultb.isc.rit.edu   |            - "Perilous Nation"   Testament
From: marty@beta.lanl.gov (Martin G. Halvorson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:54:39 GMT
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory


  remain as is

  Peace

		Marty
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: New USPSA rules...
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:48:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I just got my November/December issue of Front Sight, and thought I'd pass
along a couple of things I found in the Inside USPSA section that were news to
me...

Apparently, there are now three classes, instead of just Limited and Open.
"The Assembly approved three categories of competition for Level 3 and higher
IPSC sanctioned events.  STANDARD, which is our Limited category, prohibits use
of optics and comps.  MODIFIED permits any modifications as long as it fits
within a box with the dimensions of 225mm x 150mm x 45mm.  OPEN is the current
open or unlimited category."

Since when was there consideration for a third class?  So is this actually an
IPSC classification, or will USPSA be adopting this?  It's not entirely
clear...

There was also this tidbit on maximum magazine length (?)...

"The Assembly ruled that for OPEN/UNLIMITED category ONLY, no magazine may
exceed 170mm which includes any pads, accessories or attachments.  The United
States will be asking the assembly to extend this ruling to Standard/Limited
category after we test the concept here in the U.S."

This doesn't seem to make much sense.  I think the rule about the magazine
not extending beyond the frame was more than adequate.  With this rule, even
if your STOCK magazine is longer than this (not likely, I'll admit), you're
hosed.  Plus, it seems that this would be more of a concern for limited class
shooters rather than open class, but ah well...

Finally, about minimum caliber to make major...

"The Assembly set a minimum caliber of 10mm (.40) except .357 Mag. to qualify
for Major category in either Modified or Standard (Limited) categories."

On first reading, this would appear to alienate 9x21 and .38 supers from IPSC
altogether, but here they refer to Modified and Standard in the new three
category setup.  So, all they are basically saying is that if you shoot any
sort of restricted/limited class, you will need a 10mm/.40/.357 or better,
which is actually old news.  Earlier, they had simply stated that in order to
make major, there had to be three factory loads in that given caliber that
would make major.  So again, nothing new...

 
-- 
DVC,
  Paul

Paul Yoshimune
pauly@netcom.com
From: hes@ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Sale Prices on Gun Safes
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:05:49 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University


  Natchez Shooters Supplies is having a sale on gun safes produced
by AmSec (American Security).  These are good quality gun safes -
not the best safes that money can buy, but a very good buy. (They
offer considerably more protection than the "gun cabinets" and are
real "safes" but don't have the ultimate in thickness, bolt
mechanisms, etc.  They are finished in nice brown, undecorated
paint.)

  For example the 6022 model (empty) is $411 with either of the
8 or 18 gun interiors being $45.  The 6022 is a 275 lb safe,
with a manipulation proof combination lock, 8 locking bolts on
the door, etc.

  The 6030 model is $585, the 6032 is $515 and the wide 6040
is $690.  I think that all these prices as so much lower than
retail (actually they are *much* lower than what a gunshop would
pay to buy in unit quantities) because Natchez is closing out
carrying this brand.  This info is from their November Flyer.

  Natchez is usually one of the lower priced mail-order dealers
and provides (in my experience) good service.  Their catalog is
worth getting.

P.O. Box 22247
Chattanooga, TN  37422

Information  615 899 0499
Orders only  800 251 7839

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle recommendations for DCM Matches?
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:39 GMT
Organization: who knows

<1992Nov5.055012.28428@u.washington.edu>, ericj@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Johnson) writes...
#I plan on buying a rifle for use in  DCM/Highpower matches. 
#I want an accurate, cheap rifle that meets the rules for service rifle.
#I'm pretty much torn between an Enfield #4, and a 96 Swedish Mauser.

The only rifles that are allowed as service rifles in DCM/NRA matches are the
M1, M14/M1A and M16/AR15.  The Enfield and M96 are considered as match rifles
in NRA matches. Only service rifles are allowed in the DCM leg matches. Other
DCM matches may allow match rifles. I'm not sure if any caliber other than .30
cal service or match rifles is DCM-affiliated club highpower matches. I have a
document called "Approved courses of fire for Civilian Marksmanship Training"
and it does not mention the 5.56 Nato round! You should call the DCM to make
sure.
From: moore@tc.fluke.COM (Matt Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotgun amo sequence.other view.
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:25:14 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

In article <a2qc03jub9DB00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> barry@uts.amdahl.com (Barry Needham) writes:

 << a lot of stuff that I agreed with >>

#   * It is possible that I might have to defeat auto glass or sheet steel.
#     There have been two drive by shootings in my neighborhood in the last six
#     months.

 << a lot more stuff that I agreed with >>

 The above statement puzzles me. It sounds like you intend to engage in a
firefight with the drive-by shooters. Why is this necessary? If they stay
in their car, you get the best odds by staying out of sight and behind
cover. If you are caught outside, you won't have your shotgun with you
anyway. If they shoot and keep driving, you want to let them go: firing
back might tempt or force them to stay, and do more shooting. If they get
out of the car and invade your house, you do have to fight, but you don't
have to worry about penetrating the car anymore.

						Matt Moore
						John Fluke Mfg. Co.
						standard disclaimers apply
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: breakdown .22s'
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:04:07 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <9211062032.AA07556@stortek.com> vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak) writes:
#A friend of mine was looking for a .22 rifle (semi-auto) that can break down
#into a smaller package.  The only three guns like this that I know of are:
#
#	1) The Marlin Papoose  ~$130 with carry case
#	2) Feather AT-22 ~250 without carry case.  Designed to looks like a 
# 	   military styled weapon.
#	3) The AR-7 style guns, ~$170, where the barrel can be stored in
#	   the stock, and it can even float.
#
#Any opinions on any of these guns.  Anything else out there that we are
#missing.

I have an AR-7. Crummy sights, rough trigger. But it is small and light
and functions reliably. It does float too. I prefer my Nylon 66 though.
Another option is a .22LR kit for an AR-15. Double your pleasure.

Gary
From: austlcm.sps.mot.com!jeffs@austlcm.sps.mot.com (jeff stump)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shotgun for NEW shooter
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:53 GMT


  I have missed alot of articles submitted on this topic and cannot find
who the original poster was. 
  To the poster - if this was for a *NEW* shooter, I would reccomend a 
Remington 870 Express Combo. I very much enjoy mine. If this may be used 
for multipurpose hunting I would advise (IMHO) that the Black Matte finish 
may be a better choice with a 'good' wooden stock. Perhaps, its not as
pretty as the Wingmaster but, if you crawl across barbed wire fences, 
through the brush....ect you wont be needing a pretty gun anyway. 
   There are a multitude of choke tubes and with the Combo you get an extra
barrel which is rifled for shooting slugs. I believe this to be an excellant
choice for the money.
***********************************************************
**  Jeff Stump                                           **
**  Motorola Inc, Austin, Texas                          **
**  E-mail:  jeffs@austlcm.sps.mot.com                   **
***********************************************************
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Cor-Bon ammo...
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:44:26 GMT

Yes the 124-gr ammo uses Hornady XTP bullets.

I use Remington R9MM6 115-gr JHP +P exclusively as defense load.  I chrono
this load at an average of 1300 fps out of my Beretta with very small
deviation.  Handgun rag chrono Cor-Bon 115-gr load at 1330 fps out of a 
Taurus.  So basically, you are paying $1 for every gain of 3 fps if you 
buy Cor-Bon 115-gr load.  For me, Cor-Bon 115-gr load is not worth its
very high price.

-tt
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Laser Guns (was Re: Arrow proof? Re: Bullet Proof Vests)
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:34:22 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <QeyaRy_00WB69HnLJQ@andrew.cmu.edu> sr2s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Malcolm Redmore) writes:
#
#Now, on to a RealGunRelated question.  I have been sniffing around at
#getting a laser sight. However, since they are red, I'm shying away from
#it.  Red is a bad color for night use.  I'd prefer green or yellow...
#Unfortunatly, the diodes that they use only come in red/infared.

Could you please indicate why red is a bad color for night use?  I was
in the army, and every night time blackout lighting I ever saw was using
red light, as it is much less likely to affect night vision than other
colors, particularly blue.  Some of that rods and cones stuff, one is
used more in night vision (black and white vision ie contrast) and the
other is used more in color vision, I never can remember which.  Red
light affects one of these (rods or cones) but not the other.

Perhaps the red color was chosen with this in mind, or perhaps it was
just chosen because red lasers are the cheapest visible light lasers
available.

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again