HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: furballs@sequent.com (Paul Penrod)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: DOS 6 Beta Looks for
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:41:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1993Jan8.204101.14824
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

In article <8JAN199313142759@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.055127.16318@sequent.com>, furballs@sequent.com (Paul 
>Penrod) writes...
>
>>Well, besides being a larger harddisk on the cheap, does MS-DOS 6.0
>>do anything to extend the actual functionality of the underlying
>>DOS layer, or is 6.0 a collection of feature utilities ?
>> 
>>It used to be that when MS rolled a major revision, such as DOS
>>3.0, there were major functional and structural enhancements. I
>>dont see any talked about here. SO why the 1.0 rollover ? Why isn't
>>it 5.1. like it probably should be ?
>
>Maybe they're just trying to keep up with Novell Desktop Systems ;-)
>

That's all we need...more crap on the desktop that looks like
Novell :)

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
            Bureaucracy: noun, plural - Bureaucracies.
         The process of turning energy into solid waste.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Mic
Date: 10 Jan 93 11:32:00 GMT
Reply-To: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Organization: Almac BBS Ltd. +44 (0)324 665371

PL..>>>Windows helps to sell MS-DOS. DR-DOS does not. Seems pretty obvious to me
PL..>>     How does Windows help sell MS-DOS?
PL..>1) Because Windows requires a copy of DOS...

PL..     Show me a person who buys Windows without already having DOS.

Isn't that an irrelevance? It seems that about half the machines over
here come with DOS and Windows preloaded, even if you want neither of
them.

/\/\ | |< |.                                     mike.dickson@almac.co.uk
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . FLASH! Elvis + Hitler seen dancing at local club!!
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! : )
Date: 4 Jan 1993 20:57:00 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1993Jan4.202937.24995@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) writes:
>|> The problem is that clone makers' discounts for paying a royalty for MS-DOS
>|> and Windows for every machine they ship are in no way connected with the
>|> volume.
>They are trivially connected with volume--maximal possible volume gives you
>the maximal possible discount.

Yeah, right. The discount you get for signing an agreement to pay a royalty
for every machine has no relation to the number of machines you sell; the
discount per machine remains the same. If I sell 10,000 machines, and pay
10,000 royalties under the exclusive agreement, it's still less than if I paid
10,000 machines' worth of royalties on the unbundled contract.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
      "Science is all in the public domain, and allows few secrets."
              -- Tom Clancy, _The Sum of all Fears_
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman)
Subject: Re: ftc and ms
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:51:38 GMT

In article <wiegand.726165582@lido16>, wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand) writes:
|> helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) writes:
|> 
|> >If you want to sell McDonald's hamburgers you'll have to sign an agreement that
|> >you won't sell Wendy's frosties from the same place.  Is McDonald's using
|> >"force" or anticompetitive activities here to establish domination of the 
|> >fast food industry?  Please!!!!
|> 
|> No - but if McDonald's required that in order to open one McD. you would
|> have to sell McD. hamburgers at all restaurants you own then that would be.

OK, we'll go with that.  Does anybody have any real facts here?  Does
any contract that Microsoft has specify that if you Fred owns 2
computer businesses that he has sell only Windows through both?
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: os2man@panix.com (Larry Salomon Jr.)
Subject: Re: Does IBM have an Internet email address?
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:07:45 GMT

In <C0Do0D.3Kn@news.cso.uiuc.edu> fippen@ux2.cso.uiuc.edu (J. Fippen) writes:

>	I use os2 and love the program. If IBM had an email address, I'd
>tell them directly what I like, and don't like, about the program as I
>use it each day. Can anyone help me?
>	Thanks    John Fippen

Post it here with the appropriate subject line (so people like me can skip
it if they so desire).  More IBMers read this newsgroup than you think.

Cheers,
Q
-- 
"If you choose not to decide, you  | "My other body is in the shop" - seen
 still have made a choice" - Rush  |  on a T-shirt
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: jahonen@cs.joensuu.fi (Jarmo Ahonen)
Subject: I can get something done with OS/2, thanks IBM. 
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:12:48 GMT


Well... This is obviously an advocacy message.

Some months ago I wanted to be able to run some of
my big programs at home, but I had a real problem...
Namely that in order to get those codes run I would
have required a UNIX box, or at least so it looked like.

I decided, however, to buy a 486 PC.

At first I considered buying some flavor of UNIX for it,
due to the lack of software I dropped that idea.

In the beginning I tried to run my codes under WINDOWS.
It was painfull. The memory management felt inadequate.
would you believe how slow the program got when it run out
of RAM and paging started? Try it and you will know...
And no real multitasking. What a pain for a devoted UNIX
user.

Then a collegue of mine proposed that I should try OS/2.
Well, I had played with the versions 1.x, and they were a bit
better than unusable for me. So I was a bit skeptic at first,
I though that the new OS/2 would just be still another shithead
system for intel processors, and I actually regretted that I
hadn't paid more and got a Sun.

During some months I have now used OS/2 2.0 to run/develop my
code, and I have been *very positively* surprised with the 
usefulness of OS/2. I have found that I'm able to run a number
chrunching program at background, interactively develope another
program and use mathematicsl software to analyze the results...
Just like in UNIX :-). 

I'm quite happy with OS/2, although my wishlist for additional
features is includes at least:
1) WPS should be a bit more versatile (is it possible to get it to
   work like X-windows?).
2) *much better* documentation. The current one does not earn the
   name of documentation!
3) a simple C-compiler as a part of the system. Why not? Now I use gnu,
   but couldn't IBM include a simple C-compiler to the base system?
   It would make life much easier for many people, I believe.
   I believe and hope that IBM is listening :-).
4) Useful file-protection system. The method to use extended attributes
   to set the "read-only" bit on is primitive and I do not like it at all.
   It would nice to stop myself from accidentaly doing something nasty :-).
5) A full variety of programming languages directly from IBM or from
   ISV's. FORTRAN-90 would be nice (or even FORTRAN-77 with some -90 
   extensions). I have not seen many adds for languages for OS/2 :-(. 
6) How can I tune the system for my specific purposes? Can I tune the kernel?
   The documentation, again!
7) Better documentation...
8) better documentation...
9) ...
.
.
.

And so on. I do not know if NT will be better choice for me when it is out,
but just now I like OS/2. I believe that it is, even with its faults (which
it has quite a great deal :-( ) the most useful PC OS just *now*. Future may
change everything, however.

Please feel free to flame me if you want to :-).

BTW, I'd still, however, trade my PC for a similarly configured 
Sparc Classic anytime.

Best regards everybody,

Jarmo J. Ahonen
From: Elias_Wakan@mindlink.bc.ca (Elias Wakan)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Seamless
Date: 8 Jan 93 02:12:43 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

What is this new computer term, "seamless"?  I assume it has some sort of
well defined meaning.
--
Elias_Wakan@mindlink.bc.ca
From: x90wardell@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: DOS 6 Beta Looks for
Date: 8 Jan 93 12:12:08 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <C0JIEr.AuJ@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>, aaa@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Simon Fowler) writes:
> In article <1993Jan08.020833.4494@microsoft.com>, philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
>> In article <3801.942.uupcb@almac.co.uk> mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson) writes:
>> >PL..>F-Fear- Fear that Using OS/2 and DOS on the same machine would be dangerous
>> >PL.. It is.  DOS 6 may make your FAT partitions unreadable by
>> >PL.. OS/2 or other operating systems.
>> >
>> >Congratulations, Phil. You may have put lots of people right off using
>> >MS-DOS 6.0, irrespective of whatever the finalised code actually does.
>> 
>>     Stacker makes your FAT partitions unreadable by OS's that
>> don't have Stacker available.  This hasn't scared people off.
>> The question is whether the benefits of the incompatibility are
>> worth the loss in interoperability.
> 
> Stacker does not make your FAT partitions unreadable by OS's that don't have
> Stacker available. Rather it creates a LARGE hidden file on the partition and
> accesses that. Other files can be put on the same partition with no problem and
> can be accessed from other systems without Stacker (can't speak for NT, but OS/2
> works OK.
> 
> simon

	YOu know, I don't know what this talk about Stacker being unreadable
is, my Stacker partition has been readable for quite some time= ~~
	You simply have to have a DOS 5.0 paritition and have the
stacker device driver in itz config.sys.  The only problem is that
you can only read the stacke r drives, not write to them.

					-Brad

p.s. sorry for the typos, I am using Pmcomm which is crud, having
problems with the delete keys.
From: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Is Microsoft using "Force
Date: 10 Jan 93 11:43:00 GMT
Reply-To: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Organization: Almac BBS Ltd. +44 (0)324 665371

RAH.. George Orwell was very familier with this technique, ever read
RAH.. 1984?  "Slavery is Freedom, Hate is Love, Peace is War."

Have *you* ever read it? The words are 'War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery,
Ignorance is Strength'. Rumours that his earlier manuscripts contained
the fourth phrase, 'Microsoft is the Antichrist' are completely
unfounded. ;-)

/\/\ | |< |.                                     mike.dickson@almac.co.uk
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . Keyboard not found...THINK F1 to Continue.
From: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Bill Gates:  What a w
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:10:00 GMT
Reply-To: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Organization: Almac BBS Ltd. +44 (0)324 665371

DB..I have no wish to get embroiled in a long-running debate again either,
DB..*but*: I'll accept that Windows is an OS when I see somebody running
DB..it on a system which doesn't have DOS (or DRDOS or something else) present.

.,..or when I see someone boot from the Windows installation disks...

/\/\ | |< |.                                     mike.dickson@almac.co.uk
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . WINDOWS : A better DESQview than DESQview?
                                                                            
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman)
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! :)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:15:46 GMT

In article <8317@lib.tmc.edu>, jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan4.203709.25238@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) writes:
|> >I know exactly how you feel!!  The best machine for me is a PS/2 but those
|> >bastards at IBM refuse to preload Windows on it!!
|> 
|> >So I try for my second choice, an HP-PA machine, but would you believe the
|> >_gall_ of those guys?  They won't sell it with SunOS!!!
|> 
|> Both of these arguments would be relevant if we were talking about Microsoft
|> computers.

??  Microsoft computers ??  You mean Clones?  My example about not being able
to buy a PS/2 without OS/2 I think is germain.  Is IBM as guilty as Microsoft
in your eyes?

|> A system manufacturer has the right to put whatever he wants on his
|> machines.

Of course.  But he doesn't have the right to do it at any arbitrary price
he wants.  In a just and fair society, if you want something that someone
else has, you're going to have to cut a voluntary deal with them.

|> Microsoft, however, is trying very hard to exercise the same kind of
|> power over machines that they didn't make.

That's like saying that I'm trying to exercise undue control over a house
I didn't build when I forbid you from filling your living room with my
furniture.  If you want my furniture you'll have to buy it from me--and
if I say that you must fill every room with my furniture or I won't sell it
too you that's my business, not the FTC's.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: bauwens@acs.ucalgary.ca (Luc Bauwens)
Subject: Re: Is Microsoft the next
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 04:20:44 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1993Jan4.214749.5874@umr.edu> ckincy@cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy) writes:
>
>>Ah, another example of how much the US knows about it's northern
>>neighbour. The GST is 7% in Canada.
>
>And what's the GST in the US?
>
>--0--
>
>We haven't *even* begun to talk about other taxes, buddy.
>
>What's a gallon of gas up there?  $2?  $3?

Last time I bought gas, I paid CDN $ 0.435/liter.  I if count it right,
it works out to be US $ 1.293/ US Gallon.  Don't pay too much attention
to Canadians complaining about gas prices.  for one thing, they typically
forget that the imperial gallon is much bigger than the US Gallon;
also, they may be quoting prices in CDN $.

AND BTW, I got a strong feeling that it won't take  that much longer
until you get some increase in gas tax in the US too...

Luc B


Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: brown-sh@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu (shawn c brown)
Subject: Re: Bill Gates:  What a weenie...
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:11:08 GMT

>>I have watched how Microsofties like to re-define terms. They call Windows
>>an operating system. 
>
>WAIT A MINUTE!  Windows *is* an operating system (we can start that debate
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	SUUUURE it is!  It just needs DOS for...moral support!  Yeah, that's
what's REALLY going on...  Who ever taught you what an operating system is,
anyway??

>again?)  There was no redefinition on "Microsofties" part... there seemed
>to be a redefinition on "modern OS believer's" part... the same kind of 
>people who would say "...a Stanley Steamer is not a car... now, the Ferrari
>Testarossa--THAT'S a car..."

Shawn Brown
-THE Ohio State University
From: gupw@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Paul Wagland)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: DOS 6 Beta Looks for OS/2!!!!!!!!
Date: 8 Jan 1993 01:31:22 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au

philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:

>In article <1993Jan1.133731.2312@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_kupkams@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>>
>>	All this talk about FUD & Misinformation about OS/2 from Microsoft has
>>some NEW Merit!
>>
>>	I Recently talked to a Beta Tester of DOS 6.0. He Runs OS/2 with 2 Hard
>>Drives, One FAT, One HPFS. He decided to Install the DOS 6.0 Beta on the FAT
>>Partition, and got a Message saying, and I paraphrase: 
>>
>>- OS/2 Detected! Due to the size of OS/2 you may wish to delete your OS/2 
>>files before installing DOS 6.0 -

>     Interesting.  What is the problem with that?  If there was a
>similar message that said "Autocad detected.  Due to the size of
>Autocad you may wish to delete your Autocad files before installing
>DOS 6.0", whould that be bad too?

Well, why doesn't it?  (And yes it would!)

I would get really upset if one program recommended that I delete
another to free up space, if I want to free up space I will do so, and I
will choose what will stay and what will go.  Now I know that the above
message does not imply that DOS 6 will not run with OS/2 installed or
that it will delete the OS/2 files, however it certainly looks to me
like it is recommending that I delete OS/2, which I _DON'T_ want to
do....

Oh well, I'll probably never have a copy of DOS 6 anyway....

Paul
-- 
Paul Wagland            | These opinions are mine and no-one elses
gupw@uniwa.uwa.edu.au   | Bingy Bingy Bingy Frogs Go round and round
------------------------+     -- Another silly quote from me  :-)
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:12169 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:3819
From: x90wardell@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: CS, what do they know?
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:56:57 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1993Jan12.211407.3795@sequent.com>, furballs@sequent.com (Paul Penrod) writes:
>>Sounds to me as though they've stayed pretty much the same.  Which is to say,
>>pretty much irrelevant.  
>>
>>	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA
> 
> Frankly, I quit the program before finishing a degree. I got tired
> of Professors who did'nt know what they were doing, trying to tell
> me it couldn't be done, while I was doing it. :)
> 
> ...Paul
> 

	The CS curriculum is sure on the ball around here.  I am taking
an operating systems class and the professor had never heard of WIndows
NT (but did know a bit about OS/2).

						-Brad



Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: NT Destined to Succeed??
Date: 05 Jan 93 07:50:16 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1993Jan5.040741.27996@midway.uchicago.edu> soh3@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan04.184825.3260@microsoft.com> philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
>
>>    I don't think you're a liar.  I do think that your attempts to
>>generalize your personal experience with Windows NT to sweeping
>>statements about Windows NT as a whole are FUD, and I've told you
>>why.
>
>I don't remember Steve trying to make any sweeping statements about
>NT.  Part of what he said was with slightly less than 8 megs of memory,
>NT refused to boot and with 8 megs he managed to boot up NT but its
>performance was too bad.  I don't find any FUD in these lines.  Because
>his observations were so in direct contradiction to some of the posts
>from NT advocates including Brian Sturgill, I found his experiment
>very interesting.  It was not definitely a FUD.  Is reporting personal
>experiences spreading FUD?

    Steve made several statements such as (paraphrased, as the
originals have expired - Steve can correct me if he objects to
this portrayal) "NT just doesn't run in 8 megs."  This is a
blatantly false statement - I was very surprised to see Steve
say it, as he usually strikes me as one of the more rational
people on this newsgroup.


>>>You refuse to believe anything bad about NT and ignore it. Then, since all
>>>the bad things have been ruled out of order.....NT must be great! 
>>
>>    Let me say this:  My own personal experiences with Windows NT
>>are in direct conflict with the reports that you've published here.
>>I've been running it for months with no major problems.
>
>Tell us about your configuration and let's see what's the difference.  
>I hope it has more than 16 megs of memory:)

    I'm doing development on a Compaq 486/33 with 12MB of memory -
I've been using this system fairly heavily on a daily basis for
almost four months now, and I've crashed it once.  I also run
it less frequently on a Northgate 386/33 with 12MB.  I've seen
it run in 8MB, but don't have direct experience with that
configuration.

			-Phil


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
From: juanita@bomford.canberra.edu.au (Juanita)
Subject: OS/2 vs UNIX
Summary: Need reference comparing OS/2 and Unix
Keywords: OS/2 , Unix
Organization: Info Sci & Eng, University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA
Date:  5 Jan 93 23:54:25 GMT

I am in need of a reference which compares OS/2 and UNIX.  I chose 
to go with a UNIX workstation for development of a graphics 
application and need to justify myself.  My main reason for choosing 
UNIX was its virtual memory capability (as I will be graphing heaps and
heaps of time series data) which I did not believe was possible in mid 
'91 with OS/2.  There is also the issue of disks speeds and memory
of PCs vs graphics workstations. 

Can anyone point me to a written reference?  I would appreciate any e-mail
to juanita@bpl.canberra.edu.au

Thanks
Juanita Crutchley
Computing Honours Student
University of Canberra
From: z_kupkams@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: DOS 6 Beta Looks for OS/2!!!!!!!!
Date: 4 Jan 93 15:49:23 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1993Jan4.151633.25543@wam.umd.edu>, rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
> In article <79005@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0449a@prism.gatech.EDU (Rob Coleman) writes:
>>Immediately upon trying to install Dos 6.0, the install program says:
>>
>>"An OS/2 partition has been detected.  The OS/2 partition will not be
>>available under MSDOS 6.0."
>>
>>Not at all threatening; just informative.
> 	
> 	
> 	Well.  
> 
> 
> 	Who wants to play pin the tail on the FUDder?  
> 
> 	If I recall, the original poster of the frantic MS is 
> 	the Devil message was z_kupkams@ccsvax.sfasu.edu.  

	OK, But the tester I talked to swears by the "Deletion" message.
	I did not say that I saw it, but that it came second hand. He still
insists that it said he should consider deleting OS/2 before installing DOS 6.0
Beta.

	I Never said MS is the Devil either.

	
	
	Michael Kupka.



> 
> 	Blindfolds, guys.
> 
> 
> -- 
>       Blaming "society" for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.
>  ---  boycott == coercion == censorship == closed mindedness == cowardice  ---
> 	      "Psalms 23:1  The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want."  
> 		Shepherds are for sheep.   -----      Pain teaches.