HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: psran@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Ms J I Vousden)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Tabi boots and socks
Date: 5 Nov 1992 11:38:42 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.csv.warwick.ac.uk

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: TaeKwonDo Shoes
Summary: 
Distribution: USA 
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Keywords:TaeKwonDO, Pro Specs

Can anyone provide me with a mail-order address where I can
buy a pair of Pro Spec Taekwondo shoes ??

Ican't seem to get them *ANYWHERE* in the UK.

Thanks.

Janet Vousden (Postgrad)
Dept. of Psychology
University of Warwick
West Midlands, ENGLAND

e-mail psran@csv.warwick.ac.uk


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: lauren@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Brian T. Murray)
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate Bullshit
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:30:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.124858.931@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> y41@aix320a.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Jef
frey Hazelwood) writes:
>
>
>Ok folks pay attention.
>
>A 70 Year old man whoopin' some young guys ass???? Possible, but
>highly unlikely. Get real. I have never met a 70 year old man whose
>ass I couldn't kick. Not that that means there isn't some tough
>old guy out there, it's just I don't believe he could whoop my ass.
>I guess you folks believe those guys in the Kung Fu movies can really
>jump from the ground to the top of the Temple as well.
>

How many 70 year olds do you know?

I have been following this thread with some interest since the idea of
getting older and better is fascinating.  I am a novice in the martial
arts (a couple of years in Tae Kwon Do), and I have never seen or
experienced the art of a 70 year old master, but I do have some
thoughts on 70 year olds in general:

1.   Most doctors don't consider 70 to be old age.  Lots of people are
     living into their 80's and 90's - 70 is relatively young.  My
     father is a primary care physician and specialist in sports
     medicine who meets many atheletic 70
     year olds.  I know a man in his late 80's who does much of the
     physical labor in his (relatively large) apple orchard.  I see
     advertisements where some guy is selling athletic shoes who is a
     70+ year old triathelete.

2.   It stands to reason that with so many 70 year olds being in good
     shape, some of them must be in *great* shape.

3.   Presumably, a 70 year old person, in great physical shape, who
     has been studying martial arts for 50-60 years must be a
     formidable adversary.

It works for me.


-- 
/***************************************************************
* Brian T. Murray          |   LEARN something new every day   *
*                          |   DO some good with what you know *
* GM Research Laboratories |                                   *
***************************************************************/
From: kjones@src.dec.com (Kevin Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: 10th Dan
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:48:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: src.1992Nov10.214811.18003
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center

In article <1992Nov10.162054.3484@col.hp.com>, gee@col.hp.com (Ken Gee) writes:
|> Kevin Jones writes:
|> >I know of at least 3 people who were awarded the rank of 10th Dan in
|> >Aikido, including Tohei Sensei. I know of one person within the Karate
|> 
|> 	I know Hikitsuchi Sensei and Tohei Sensei were awarded 10 Dan by
|> O-Sensei.  Who is the third?
|> 
|> Ken

According to Stan Pranin (in the Aiki News Encyclopedia), Seiseki Abe
was verbally awarded 10th Dan by O'Sensei. According to publicity
material for a video sent to my dojo, Minoru Mochizuki was also
verbally awarded 10th Dan.

There may be others - since one counter example was enough, I didn't
bother to make an accurate count 8->.


=================================================================
=                           Kevin D. Jones                      =
=                                                               =
= Digital Equipment Corporation   | E-mail: kjones@src.dec.com  =
= Systems Research Center         | Phone: (415) 853 2209       =
= 130 Lytton Avenue               |                             =
= Palo Alto CA 94301              |                             =
= USA                             |                             =
=================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: Badass Karate (-Do?)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 09:44:23 GMT

In article <memo.733367@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>>Yup.  I agree.  Boxers take a hideous amount of punishment, although the
>>_do_ get to wear gloves 8-).  Sumo is pretty much brute strength.  Takes
>>big guys to do it...
>No way is Sumo just brute stength! There is a high degree of skill in there
>as well. Just because they are big guys does not necessarily mean they rely
>purly on strength.
How true, if size and strength was all there was to Sumo, Konishiki
would win hands down.  Although he's a leading contender in the sport, 
I've seen him get finessed and out manuevered too many times.  Besides
the Sumo association would certainly disagree with that simplistic
accessment of sumo.  That old "sumo grace" they keep talking about!

RT
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Badass Karate (-Do?)
Date: 7 Nov 92 20:30:33 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <1992Nov05.143044.1057@srg.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
>#define SOAPBOX
>there's only 1 optimal way. [of course, optimal assumes something that you're optimizing for]


That parenthetical remark is one we should all keep in mind, all the time.


>	Soft stylists are always trying to find the path of least resistance in
>their own bodies.
>[snip]
>	Basically, if you can maintain relaxation throughout the movement, then
>you are moving along the path of least resistance. That's the idea which under-
>lies Taiji (as I understand it). The goal is efficiency, within the context of
>moving naturally - not necessarily in geometric ideas like "shortest distance
>between your fist and the target is a straight line."


I don't see soft styles as necessarily finding the path of least resistance
in one's own body -- otherwise, I think all such styles would be more similar
to one another than they are.  Even among the Chinese internal arts, which I
consider a smaller set than "soft styles", since some soft styles are external
(actually, I should say "most soft styles", since there's only a small handful
of internal arts, but a multitude of soft arts), there is a marked variation
in styles and goals.  T'ai chi does seem to concentrate on relaxation, even in
its fighting, but it's a particular _brand_ of relaxation that there's no
good English word for.  Hsing yi, OTOH, doesn't talk about relaxation at all,
and develops its power in ways completely different from those of t'ai chi.
>#undef SOAPBOX

Al
From: mnoell@reed.edu (Matthew Max Noell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Badass Karate
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:12:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov10.021216.2649
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
	". . . nonsense Wing Chun looking garbage. . ."  What?!?  If you know

anthing at all about Kung Fu you know that Wing Chun is NOT garbage or
nonsense.  Get a life.  Wing Chun is a very effective art.  If you really 
think it is nonsense, then go find a decent Wing Chun school and challenge
somebody.  Better yet, join and see how long you last!
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Test Requiremnets-WRITTEN?
Date: 8 Nov 1992 21:33:54 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov7.225546.309@news.uwyo.edu> rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky) writes:
>25. Why is the karate blow more devasting than the blow of any other
>    fighting system?  Include references to stance, breath control, 
>    sequential use of muscle groups (reverse punch, for example), kiai,
>    and comparision to a boxer's blow and footwork.

Fascinating.  I'm terribly curious to know what would constitute a "correct" 
answer to this question.  I mean, isn't it asking a lot of a black belt
candidate to have exhaustive knowledge of *every* other fighting system in 
existence?



-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: phantom@gagme.chi.il.us (Leif Ericksen)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: BAD A$$ Karate, a call to end this garbage
Date: 12 Nov 92 01:32:41 GMT
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Originator: phantom@gagme

In article <1992Nov12.004548.11868@gagme.chi.il.us> phantom@gagme.chi.il.us (Leif Ericksen) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.023725.4982@reed.edu> mnoell@reed.edu (Matthew Max Noell) writes:
>
>
>	I really dont know what you know about a street fighter but they can be
>mean, if I got the header rembered properly you were from around the BRonx, NY
>I suggest that you go to Angle HQ and talk to Lisa and Curtis Sliwa and find
>out how MA poeple in genral do against an MA person.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ OOPS! Kick me Punch me flip me
I absent midedly said MA to MA it should be MA against not-MA (typical street
fighter )

	ALSO check out the June 1985 Issue of Black Belt the article
Science of Street Fighting

	There are others, but I do not remember the year mainly the one that
said that to do any good in a street fight you would have to have a second
degree Black Belt.  Sorry, I had to many BB mags and I guess I trashed that
issue.

		- Leif Ericksen
		phantom@gagme.chi.il.us
>
>	- Leif Ericksen
>	phantom@gagme.chi.il.us
From: jat@hpcss01.cup.hp.com (Joseph Talmadge)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Name that art!
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:38:48 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino

giancc@csa.bu.edu (Chris Giancola) writes:
>I have been studying a variation on Muay Thai, one that has been
>passed down from generation to generation through a family of
>Laotians.  It involves many of the standard forms of Muay, but
>in each hand is a 2 1/2 - 3 foot sword.  In general it utilizes
>much sword technique, and in close combat relies on knee and elbow
>combinations.  Kicks are used too, making this art in practice look
>much like a "martial ballet"!  This art was not all physical, for much
>spirit development and control was emphasized.
>
>So why am I telling you all this?
>
>My teacher moved with his family, and I am now stuck without a
>teacher.
>I would like to know if anyone knows a name for a comparable art
>(with emphasis on 2-sword technique), and if it is taught anywhere
>in Massachusetts (Greater Boston preferred, but Im willing to go
>out of my way for the art), whether by a school or just a lone
>teacher.

If the art is Thai-based, then you have been studying something derived
from krabi-krabong, the Thai double-stick/double-sword fighting style.
Good luck finding a new teacher -- there aren't very many muay Thai
instructors here in the states, and not all of them know krabi-krabong.
Most should be familiar with it, though; I think krabi-krabong is
usually taught in the Thai boxing camps.

If you can't find a Thai combat instructor to teach you this, you
might want to check out some of the various Filippino martial
art styles (variously known as escrima, arnis, or kali) available
in your area.  There are definitely some good Filippino martial
arts schools in the Boston area, and most should include two-sword 
techniques.  Knees, elbows, and kicks are also  used.

My advice would be to find a Thai school first, and see if that's
what you want.


Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: Test Requiremnets-WRITTEN?
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:22:43 CST

In article <john.28.10.0@bnr.ca> john.28@bnr.ca (John Ledford) writes:

>No, but there is a _good_ oral drilling. I am not aware of any written tests.
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                         .... oooooo... sounds *painful* ....

-Lauren
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Badass Karate (-Do?)
From: richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 22:54:37 GMT
Reply-To: parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Distribution: world
Organization: Masterful Enterprises UnLimited.


In article <Bx4GDI.FwF@news.udel.edu> weigand@chopin.udel.edu writes:

 > "Hard" styles are styles which rely on muscles to put power into
 > a strike (external=hard=done with muscles).

Train harder.  There's a lot to be said about using proper technique
behind a punch - I can punch harder than many musclebound guys at a gym,
because of technique.  And then there's extending your chi/ki into a
killing force - can be done.  Even seen someone break 14 concrete
roofing tiles? ;-)

Other than that, you had some good points...  Sych as:

 > A Muay Thai practitioner could be the most gentle person compared
 > to a particular tai-chi practitioner. It's totally dependent on the
 > person. Therefore, comparing styles by your definition of "hard"
 > and "soft" is illogical.

It is indeed based upon the person.  Also, upon his trainer.

Later!

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: sven@stud.cs.uit.no (Sven Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Time required to attain Black Belt
Date: 5 Nov 92 11:18:56 GMT
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway


Kyokushin Karate:
I had been training 7 years when I got my black belt.
Some people have done it faster, some longer...



-----------------------------------------|         \ \\ \\ \
   Sven Johnson                          |--------- \ \\ \\ \
   sven@stud.cs.uit.no                   |         | \ \\ \\ \
   +47(0)83 31151                        |   |     |  \ \\ \\ \
   endure the pain                       |   \---  |  / // // /
                                         |\_______|  / // // /
-----------------------------------------           / // // /
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: a908301@server1.tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Re: Time required to attain Black Belt
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:21:04 GMT


I train in Tang Soo Do, it took me 6 years to reach 1st Dan.
I attended 2, 2 hour classes a week for the first 2-3 years,
most of my free time (there was plenty since I was still at 
school) was spent with a friend and fellow student working
out in the street. Also my friends father was a close friend
of our instructor, and he asked the instructor to give us a 
hard time, for which I am very grateful since it sets us apart
from most other students. 

I also now train in Ju-Jitsu and on average it takes about 12
years to reach 1st Dan in this particular style.


---
Andy Hudson (a908301@server1.tiuk.ti.com)

    - NE TE CONFUNDANT ILLEGITIMI ! -




Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: yy@cbnews.cb.att.com (alan.j.lapenn)
Subject: Re: Martial arts for children - what age?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:30:58 GMT
Summary: WHat is benefit

In article <cindy.137@berkp.uadv.uci.edu>, cindy@berkp.uadv.uci.edu (Cindy Windham) writes:
> At what age can a child begin to benefit from taking martial arts
> classes?  
> 
> - Cindy

Depends on what you mean by benefit. If you mean self defense, it really is
an individual thing at any age. If the person shows natural agressive tendencies
then that persons will most likely advance quicker. 

The most important benefit of martial arts as I see it, is to reconize and avoid
a potential conflict before it happens. I tell all of my students that the best
defense is to run if you can. Baring this, if it is required to defend your self
, take the person out as quickly as possible.


-- 
Alan LaPenn      att!mvuxd!yy          .signature not found!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin)
Subject: Re: Buddha's Palm
Organization: Institute for the Theoretical Physics
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:00:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.152119.6860@ncsu.edu> bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS) writes:
>
>I have studied many different styles and I am focusing on an art call
>Buddha's Palm. I was wondering if anyone else has heard of this art form
>before. It deals mainly with hand strikes palms especially.
>
>Brian K. Davis
>aka
> The Black Buddha

	I remember watching a Hong-Kong (?) movie "Shaolin against Lama"
(or something like this). There one student was specially taught a SECRET
SHAOLIN STYLE called Buddha's Fingers -- I guess it's the same.

Quote from the movie:
"And remember -- if you apply this style correctly -- NOBODY can ever beat you"

Greenoch?? :-)
______________________________________________________________________________
 Eugene  N.  Tyurin  <+>                          gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu
 Physics Department  <+>  Two wrongs do not make it right, but three lefts do.
 SUNY @ Stony Brook  <+>                              W. Siegel (unpublished)
From: glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: 10th Dan
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:43:30 GMT
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1dhi2iINNiam@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bp652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil W. Lau) writes:
>
>Maybe in your style of m.a., but there are 10th dans out there in
>plenty of styles.  Whether they're legit or not is another issue.
>Many of the styles out there are less than a century old, and the
>founders as far as I know usually hold the automatic rank of 10th dan.
>Of course the ranking system as we know it is a fairly recent 
>innovation.  Before that, there was the Master, then Number One
>Student, Number Two Student, etc.
>
>> Mark (Only Sankyu but I'm getting there)
>
>Mark, create your own style and jump automatically to 10th dan! :)

People pay more attention to the color of the belt at the waist
of their teachers instead of how good they are.  Look at how
successful the Japanese marketing technique.  Though there is no
belt system in my Chinese martial art school.  The American students
just keep talking about how many Dan those senior students have.
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: 10th Dan
Date: 8 Nov 92 06:06:58 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <40028.312921040@onyx.kiwi.gen.nz> mark@onyx.kiwi.gen.nz (Mark Goldie) writes:
>I have been told that the rank of 10th dan is not held by anyone in the
>world and has not been for 100's of years, as my instructor is 5th dan
>and the Kancho-Sensei of Chidokan is 7th dan, I find it difficult to accept
>that there is not someone out of 3 billion people who hold a rank three
>grades higher. 


Perhaps this is a, umm, "failure to communicate?" There may well not be any
10th Dans in in your particular style or art. Since the Kyu/Dan ranking sys-
tem is itself only about a century old (it originated with Kodokan Judo,
founded in 1882) the notion of there being 10th Dans "100's of years"
ago is rather unlikely. In any event, in 1989 there were a number of living
10th Dans on Okinawa (this list is *not* exhaustive):

   Name (English order)   Style		
1) Shoshin Nagamine Shorin-ryu [Matsubayashi]  
2) Eizo Shimabuku   Shorin-ryu [Shobayashi]
3) Meitoku Yagi     Goju-ryu [Okinawa]
4) Yoshio Itokazu   Goju-ryu [Itokazu-ha]
5) Hohan Soken      Shorin-ryu [Matsumura Seito]
6) Yuchoku Higa     Shorin-ryu [Kyudokan]
7) Seikichi Uehara  Motobu-ryu
8) Seitoku Higa     Bugeikan
9) Kanei Uechi      Uechi-ryu [I believe Uechi-sensei passed on in 1991, but
		                 I'm not sure]

Some of these gentlemen may be deceased now, but I *know* Nagamine-sensei
is still alive (and teaching/training daily...). Hohan Soken-sensei was
born in May, 1889, so he's 103 if he's still living (this is not unheard of
in Okinawa - Okinawans have a much higher proportion of centenarians than
*any* other population group). I may well have missed some names. In addition,
there were a number of 9th Dans who may have since been granted 10th Dan
by the appropriate umbrella organizations (the Zen Okinawa Karate-do Renmei or
the Zen Okinawa Karate Kobudo Rengokai) with which most Okinawan styles
are affiliated. I'm sure there are living 10th Dans in a number of Japanese
arts, as well.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cschum@engin.umich.edu (Corey Joseph Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Badass Karate
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 17:12:32 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Nov5.204304.29380@oracle.us.oracle.com> glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.215421.8721@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO) writes:
>>
>>     Each style was profiled, Karate being lumped together as one style.  Also,
>>certain individuals (2 Americans, a Brit and a couple of Japanese) were profiled.
>>The film followed each man's training methods, style, etc.  
>>     ANYWAY......the Karate stylists were clearly dominant.  The representatives
>>from China did pretty well, considering Kung-Fu has always had a bad rap as being
>>useless in competition vs. other arts.  The Thai boxers did as expected--they 
>>
>>For the record, I study WTF TKD.
>>
>>
>>|)  Joe
>>  
>Perhaps you haven't seen any real Chinese martial artists, other
>than those from movies. Come to challenge my master or ask your
>master to challenge my master, and count how long before you are
>on the ground.

I don't know any of the people involved, but it seems the
height of arrogance to be so sure your master could beat his master.
Take some humility pills.

Corey