From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american,sci.electronics,misc.consumers,misc.education,misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN? - Off track!!
Date: 17 Dec 1992 15:43:46 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: grissom.larc.nasa.gov

In article <1992Dec16.205108.6801@oakhill.sps.mot.com> rvkl60@aus18a25.sps.mot.com (Tom Mathes) writes:
>
>We will get back on track when we upgrade our educational system,
>invest for the long term, and retaliate with a vengence against
>unfair trading practices.  I hope under Clinton we will not see
>the wholesale destruction of US industries by foreign concerns,
>like the Japanese cartel of TV makers did to the US TV makers.

Admittedly the tactics which the Japanese TV makers used were not fair.
Nonetheless, the products which they made were superior to the American
products they were competing with.  The Japanese were using 110' CRTs
long before the US, and as a result were producting TV sets which had a
much smaller footprint for a given screen size.  If the US manufacturers
had realized that customers actually wanted smaller sets (instead of 
large console models) and that it would have been less expensive in
the long run for them to make tubes with the higher technology, there
would still be an American TV industry today, dumping or no.

>We should not be patsies on trade issues anymore.  Bush set
>a good precident in retaliating against European subsides in 
>seed oil.  Too bad he didn't use the same tactics to open the
>Japanese market.

This is true, but I don't think it's as much of a problem as seems to be
claimed here.  While the trade practices put American products at an unfair
disadvantage, the poor quality of many American products and the inability
of American companies to respond to changing markets is a significant problem.
Both of these problems need to be addressed.

The US. education system stinks.  I think we can all agree with that.  Some
of the replies here have been saying that the Japanese education system is
just as bad, or even worse.  Not having any experience with the system, I can't
say whether this is true or not.  Still, it's an irrelevant point.  The US
education system is bad, and no matter what the Japanese are doing, we need
to fix it.  Looking over our shoulder at Japan and copying them won't do any
good, because the attitudes of the people are different.  

>You say that consumers are better off, but there are lots of people
>with former good jobs out of work.  If the US had the same trade 
>policies as Japan, then you wouldn't see any Japanese TVs, VCRs, 
>autos, etc. that you see now.  Free trade is great, when both sides
>play by the same rules.

This is absolutely true, but we can't blame the Japanese for this.  Blame
the folks to attempted to convert the US over to a "service economy" at
the expense of manufacturing.  Blame the fact that the US government doesn't
sponsor any attempts at improving manufacturing technology, and the fact that
in the last ten years, the amount of pure research done by private companies
has dropped almost to zero.  We didn't invest in our future and we let the
entire US manufacturing infrastructure fall apart, and now everybody is 
running around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying to figure out
what happened to them.

>Don't ever forget that "consumers" are also "workers".  Folks
>out of a job make lousy consumers.
>
>Why don't Japanese consumers buy American products?  Often, they
>don't have a chance.  Excessive regulation blocking foreign goods,
>encouraged by domestic companies, locks them out.  Just ask Cray
>Research why they have trouble selling computers to the government
>there.  Or why US semiconductor makers, who are successful abroad,
>have a fit selling in Japan.

This is certainly the case.  Japanese protectionism is a problem.  But 
frankly Japan isn't a very big market for any products, American or
Japanese, which is why the Japanese turned to the US to sell their
products.  If Japan were an open market for US goods, they still wouldn't
buy very many, because Japan is a very small place compared with the US.
While it's an unfair situation, it certainly isn't the real problem.

>Americans, by international standards, have the lowest taxes in
>the industrialized world.  Some areas of the US do tax more than
>others; I'd dare say my taxes here in Texas are lower than one
>who lives in NY, the DC area, California, or Mass.

That's because Americans, by international standards, receive very few
services from their government.  Whether this is good or bad is something
which I am not going to get into.

>Saying it's all America's fault is like blaming the victim
>for the crime.  We should stop whining in the US and just
>act when we are right.  For starters, no more US defense of
>any country as wealthy as Japan or western European countries.
>Time they paid with their own money and lives to defend their
>soil and interests.  Also, short warning for unfair trade, then
>stiff retaliation.  I think the old Teddy Roosevelt addage of
>"speak softly and carry a big stick" should be followed by 
>Americans again.

It's time to stop whining about whose fault it is and fix the damn
problems.  Starting here, not starting with Japan.  Once we get our
house in order, then we can complain about theirs.
--scott