HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wa3wbu!john@uunet.UU.NET (John Gayman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand/M1A history & differences?
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:41:01 GMT
Organization: @ WA3WBU, Marysville, PA


In article <1992Jul20.005012.4301@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, tjohnson@xenon.stanford.edu (Ted C. Johnson) writes:
# When was the M1 Garand first used?  WWI or WWII?
# Was it designed in the US?  (Garand sounds foreign....)

    It was first used in WWII and it was designed by John Garand at
 Springfield Armory (original).

# And where does the M1A fit into the scheme of things?  It this a civilian
# version w/lots of nice features (e.g., a "normal" clip instead of an "en bloc"
# clip, and ???), or was the M1A actually used by the US Army?

    The M1A was not a real issue service rifle. It is the semi-auto 
 version of the select fire M14 which was issued and used for a short
 time in Vietnam before being replaced by the M16. The designation M1A
 is actually a trademark of Springfield Armory in Ill.  

    If you want some very interesting reading on the development of
 the Garand and M14 I recommend the hard cover book "U.S. Rifle M14,
 from John Garand to the M21". Very nice book. A similar book on the 
 development of the M16 is called "The Black Rifle". 


					John


# 
# Thanks!
# 
# -Ted


-- 
John Gayman, WA3WBU 
UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Poll
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:34:08 GMT


With the talk of the the $5000 shopping spree I thought
it would be interesting to conduct an informal poll.
If you wish to complete it, please mail responses directly
to me at C08926RC@WUVMD, and I'll post the results in a
week or two.

In your answers, please give make, model and caliber.  Reasons
aren't necessary.

1)  If you could have any handgun you wanted, what would it be?

2)  If you could have any rifle you wanted, what would it be?

3)  If you could have any shotgun you wanted, what would it be?

4)  If you could only own one firearm of any type, what gun
    would you choose?  Why?


That's it!


Rob
C08926RC@WUVMD
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Chlorate primers?
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:34:49 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.

As I wait for my recently-ordered Browning BDM to arrive ( :} ),
I'm looking around for reasonably-priced (read; cheap) 9mm ammo
to shoot through it.  For practice.  Which won't hurt my new
friend.  Or require cleaning every four or five rounds.  Etc.

I've been looking through Shotgun News, and have seen attractive
prices on some "chlorate-primed" 9mm (said to be useful for its
long storage life).  No mention as to corrosiveness, it is
Berdan primed.  (I'll be reloading, but not that particular
batch of ammo, assuming I get any.)

Is it corrosive? Reliable?


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dickwin@sequent.com (Dick Winningstad)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Which Semi-Auto should I buy?
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:02:32 GMT
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.


Get a Beretta 92F if not then a Sig P226.  Both are the best of a very
good selection of guns.  If these guns do not feel comfortable in your
hand then go to something else but try these first.  I prefer the
Beretta over the Sig, but that is due to my prejudices as they both, I
feel, are better than my capabilities.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+Dick Winningstad                                                    +
+                    Italian Wines are Fine                          +
+          I'd rather be on a Moto Guzzi in eastern Oregon.          +
+          Fourth gear curves at 7000 RPM are the greatest!          +
+dickwin@sequent.com                                                 +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: exuslh@exu.ericsson.se (Sherry HArris,xtr,0334)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm Information
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:57:54 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

hi Andy,

for a compact denfense pistol, I like the firestar 9mm.  It is a really comfortable
pistol to shoot.  Firestar has just introduce their new 40 and 45 caliber which has
put some used 9mm on the market.  I have not shot the 40 or 45 calibers.

I really like the looks of the Browning Hi-Power practical with adjustable sights 
but have not fired one just held it.  I would exactly call this gun a compact though.

Oh, one more thing.  The firestar is cast from all steel so although its compact its 
defenately heavier than the glock.  Depends on your needs.

I would recommend going to a range that rents guns and trying them out.  What fits
and feels good to some else might not fit and feel good to you.  For instance I know
alot of people like the Glock and it is very accurate but its too top heavy for me.
Just my opinion.

Hope this helps.  Let me know what you choose.  Another tip.  When you buy the 
gun make sure that you fire it with some frequency until it feels like second
nature to shot it.  After that, I suppose once or twice a month would suffice.

My opions are my own,
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Laser range finder
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:37:49 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <9207270007.AA00241@leland.Stanford.EDU>, ami@leland.Stanford.EDU (Amitava Biswas) writes:
# 
# Hello, I'm new to this group so please excuse my ignorance. I'm looking for
# information (or where to find information) on a laser range finder for 
# archery. I know this is not really gun-related, but I thought this readership
# might be able to help me out - sorry if it's too off-topic.
# 
# 		[MODERATOR:  Looks okay to me...  actually, I haven't
# 		 seen anything like this for archers, and it sounds like
# 		 an interesting engineering project to try and adapt a
# 		 mount.   Sure would help in *practice* too, so one 
# 		 could study one's follow through... well, I distract... ]
# 
# I'd like to find out what sorts of devices exist if any that enable a
# marksman(woman) to measure distace to target, short of actually getting a 
# ruler out. Are there laser devices that do this? Can you tell me what their
# accuracy is, and what sorts of ranges they can measure (eg 110-300 yds?).
# Who makes them, can they be used to measure distances to a moving target
# (eg deer), can they measure range in real time, are they reflectable, etc.
# Are they available with a digital readout?
# 
# Finally, are such devices usually gun-mounted, or handheld, or in any case
# do you think it would be possible to modify one for mounting on a compound
# bow?
# 

I'v recently seen hand held electronic tape measures advertised on tv.
I don't know what the range is, but if it is sufficient the should 
fill your requirements.  However, you'll probably have to get creative
to mount in on your bow.

-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: wwarf@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .380ACP & 9mm Makarov compatibility ??
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:33:57 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <9207221945.AA29341@leland.Stanford.EDU> loia@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Loia) writes:
#
#The surplus Walther PP/PPK style pistols chambered for
#9x18mm Makarov seem like a very good value except for the
#relatively rare ammo it uses.
#
#I am curious as to whether it is possible to use .380ACP
#ammo in these pistols without serious consequences.
#
#Has anyone tried this ?


No, but I'd doubt it'd feed from the magazine. The Mak round fits
very snuggly in the PA-63 mag. Mak ammo really isn't rare. It's
available in Hansen non-corr and the Chinese will sell you a ton for
a song if your willing to use corrosive.

-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Progunners???
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:57:37 GMT
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <m0mD3K3-0000hIC@crash.cts.com> jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
#In article <1992Jul27.013407.26236@massey.ac.nz> C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz (C.T. Teo) writes:
##Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Pro-gunners???
##
##Our local TV Frontline programme shown a few minutes clip on firearms ownership
##in the State of Georgia, USA. Beside showing the residents (young and old)
##carrying firearms in the open, it was said that the crime rates are
##comparatively low and that (listen to this) it is MANDATORY for household to
##possess firearm(s)!!! It this true???
#
#No, there's one small town in Georgia where that is the case.  The
#police chief or local sheriff went to the city council with this and
#they passed a town ordinance requiring that every household have one
#loaded firearm unless there was some factor prohibiting that such as
#religion or mental incompetancy.  Basically, if you could legally buy a
#gun and owned one, you were expected to keep at least one of them loaded
#in your place of residence.  I admire the law enforcement official
#even if it was a small town who came up with that idea.  It shows that
#there's some common sense in the world.
#
As I recall, the small Oregon town of Chiloquin, just north of
Klamath Falls, enacted a similar law requiring every household to
posess a firearm.  I believe that this law was also in response to
the Downer's Grove legislation.

Nice town, Chiloquin.

(snippa snippa)
#
#     // JCA
#
# /*
# ** ARPA    : jadpc!thewall!jca@nosc.mil | 13 + 1 = 228... 
# ** INTERNET: jca@thewall.cts.com        |
# **           jca@thewall.uucp           |           SIG-Sauer P228...
# ** UUCP    : nosc!jadpc!thewall!jca     |
# */


Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: bobd@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand/M1A history & differences?
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:33:21 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <9207210938.AA02403@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu> raymond@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu (Raymond Man) writes:
##The Garand was also used in Nam.  As you may have observed, when
##the Garand fires its last round it makes a distinctive "t-ting"
##sound as it ejects the clip.  Victor Charlie observed this and ...
#
#I have heard of the "t-ting" sound problem when the clip fallen
#on freeze ground in WWII, probably at the time of the Battle of
#the Bulge. However, I cannot imagine a VC can hear that good in
#a jungle.
#

The "twinggggg!" sound, as I remember it, happens when the clip
is ejected from the action at the end of eight rounds, not
when it hits the ground. It is a very distinct sound. 

In close jungle quarters with limited visibility the enemy could
well be withing hearing distance (besides, just how much "wildlife" 
noise will be going on after 8 rounds of .30-06?).
To give you an idea how seriously being detected is
considered, the bore cleaner formulation was changed during 
VietNam (at least I'm pretty sure that was the time period)
because the old one was too odiferous & could be detected by
someone with a good nose at quite a distance. Having spilled some
WWII vintage bore cleaner in a hut at Camp Perry (and currently
using the newer mil-spec bore cleaner), I can vouch that the
older US military bore cleaner has a horrendous stench (especially
in tight quarters :-).

#The US Army were already buying M16 in the hundreds of thousands in 
#1958 - 1961, so I guess very few VC had the good fortune to run into
#an M1.
#

Ummm, you sure about that intro date? I'll check "Small Arms of
the World" tonight if I remember, but this doesn't seem to agree
with my recollection of what I've read (especially such large
production numbers that early). Was it Westmoreland that decided
to switch over to the M-16 on a crash basis?
-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's

        "If it's in the paper it must be true!" --- D. Doright
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Long Range Handgun Ballistics
Date: 25 Jul 92 13:11:57 GMT


I made an unpardonable omission in my previous posting. In addition t
to Messrs. Beatie, Millin, and Schaefer, another run was done by
Bart Bobbitt. It corroborates the previous results.

Sorry Bart, but I printed out your message earlier in the day, so it 
ended up in the lower strata on my desk, and I just came across it :)


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What is Bore/Gauge ???
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:34:31 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1992Jul22.023238.4603@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> gunter@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Gunter Ahrendt) writes:
#Maybe an obvious answer for the experts, but not for a novice...
#
#What exactly is 16 Gauge in inches or cm diameter?
#Better still if you could tell me the formula to work it out?
#
#:)
#Thanks
#


uge is not a diameter measurement.  Originally, it meant that it took
16 shots to put a pound of lead downrange.  THis is why a 12 guage is
LARGER than a 16.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Old Western Scrounger & Silver Bullets
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:10:16 GMT

For the person who wanted this address, the following is from a Jan '92
Shotgun News ad (he doesn't put them in very often, it appears):

Old Western Scrounger
12924 Highway A-12
Montague, CA  96064

(Catalog $3)

And regarding the silver bullet query: Gun World actually did some
silvr-bullet reloading experiments as part of a Lone Ranger story some
years back (I think in the '60s). As I vaguely recall, the main problem
was the hardness of the silver -- the bullets wouldn't be soft enough to
take the rifling, despite experiments with various alloys, so they never
did get any accuracy from the loads. These were with a .45 Long Colt
in a Single Action Army, of course... 

I would suggest using cast silver shotgun slugs or buckshot, myself, if
you happen to have a local werewolf or vampire problem... [*]

(Maybe you could reload some "chain shot" type shells, using a blessed
silver rosary? Use a barrel rated for steel shot and you'll be OK...)

[*] Note: As per the comment on shotshell reloading and how one cannot 
vary components or experiment with modifications -- that has always 
offended me and has kept me from finding shotshell reloading to be very
interesting; it's just a chore to follow a recipe and crank out loads
dictated by some book. So you save money: I'd rather spend the money and
use my precious time for something more enjoyable and rewarding. In this
case, I guess you'll have to write Lyman or somebody to get their
blessing (too!) for the shotshell formulae to use for these silver loads.

Regards, Will
From: gunter@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Gunter Ahrendt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: What is Bore/Gauge ???
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:58:16 GMT
Organization: University of Western Australia

Maybe an obvious answer for the experts, but not for a novice...

What exactly is 16 Gauge in inches or cm diameter?
Better still if you could tell me the formula to work it out?

:)
Thanks
From: JAL@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .357 Mag.'s in a .357 Maximum Revolver
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:37:17 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Does anyone have any experience with shooting .357 Magnum rounds from a
revolver chambered for the .357 Rem. Maximum cartridge?  If so, how did the
of short range (25 to 50 yd.) accuracy compare to that of the .357 Max.
rounds?  I would expect some degradation in accuracy due to using a short
round in a long cylinder, but is the accuracy still acceptable (e.g, 3 inch
groups at 25 yds.)?  The gun of particular interest is the Wesson Firearms
Model 740 (or 40) with an 8" VH barrel.  Thank you.


Jeff Grimm
From: bartb@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .308 for 1000 yd. Matches
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:44:31 GMT

Some posts and responses regarding the use of .308 Win. or 7.62mm NATO in
long range matches have been posted.  Their comments about bullets going
subsonic before going through the paper at 1000 yards echo those I've heard
on the range.

I think there are a couple of things happening that may not be obvious to
some participants in this net, as well as all those others who discuss or
experience this phenomona.

When service rifles are used and the ammo is Lake City Match M852 (Sierra
168-gr. bullet), muzzle velocity can be anywhere from 2450 to 2700.  This
depends on bore and groove dimensions that determine the actual muzzle
velocity.  I've chronographed some service rifles that shot the same lot of
ammo much slower than other service rifles.  

One of the highpower competitors here in Colorado says his M1A does not keep
M852 ammo supersonic at the Nationals in Camp Perry (590 ft. altitude) but
the same lot of ammo is supersonic at the NRA Whittington Center in Raton
(6600 ft. altitude); both are at 1000 yards.  At Perry, his bullets `whoosh'
through the paper but at Raton, they `snap' as they go through.  When he
used Lake City M118 (173-gr. M2 bullet) ammo, at both places the bullets
`snapped' through the target.  This kind of indicates that the M2 match bullet
has a higher BC than the Sierra 168, or, the M118 ammo has a higher muzzle
velocity than M118 in his rifle.

In all situations where bullets `whoosh' through the paper at long range (800
to 1000 yards) they are subsonic; the ones that `snap' are supersonic and the
sonic shock wave from them causes the `snap.'  Also, when bullets are subsonic
at any range, they've always not been too accurate, which indicates a bullet
fired supersonic needs to be kept supersonic all the way to the target, 
whatever the range.  But a bullet that is fired subsonic can be accurate.  In
my observations, lighter weight bullets that go subsonic in flight tend to
change directions more so than heavier ones.  That's probably because there is
more mass in them to keep them from changing directions.  For example, black
powder long range rifles used in 1000 yard matches have their bullets going
from supersonic to subsonic before going through the paper.  Yet, their 
accuracy does not seem to change when this happens.
  
Once in a while, I've noticed that a bullet will be supersonic going through
the target at 1000 yards, yet it still keyholes.  That probably means the
bullet was either quite unbalanced or was spun too slow as it left the muzzle.
From: infmx!gregm@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rockchucker primer
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:30:30 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Jul21.144845.9470@edsr.eds.com> edsr!kjs@uunet.UU.NET (Kevin Sedota) writes:
#When I got into reloading I bought on of those RCBS master reloading kits.
#But on the advice of a friend I got a Lee hand primer. His concern was mainly
#that the system on the RCBS was prone to ignighting the entire tube of primers
#thus (PC ALERT !!!! ;-) ) causing serious negative impact on current reloading 
#process. (read: it could really screw up your whole day.)

RCBS had a recall on a part of the primer feed for the Piggyback unit.
It was advertised in the gun rags.  They were sending free of charge
a replacement part for the defective one.  As I remember it was a
plastic part and they changed the color of it so it could be identified
whether a reloader had the old defective part or the new and improved
version.

Call RCBS for the real info.



      Greg Mitchell          gregm@informix.com
From: Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Thi Huynh)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Best defense: Machine gun or shotgun?
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:01:23 GMT

cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) wrote:

# Obviously, you've never taken a revolver apart. If you do, you'll find
# about a dozen small moving springs, levers, ratchets, and whatnot that make
# up the "lockwork" of the gun. You might as well call it "clockwork"--it's
# just about as delicate. You get some mud in there (or for that matter, a
# nearly invisible piece of grit under the extractor star, or a number of
# other vulnerable points), and it's all over now, baby blue.
# 
# In fact, one of the reasons (besides fast reload) the military forces of
# the world rely exclusively on autoloaders is that they are more rugged than
# revolvers. A simple auto (like the Browning P-35) has _fewer_ moving parts
# than a revolver, and the tolerances between the parts are coarser.
# (Military autos are usually made with a sloppy slide-to-frame fit for
# exactly this reason: getting some grit in the slide rails does not
# necessarily prevent functioning.) In addition, it is _much_ easier to strip
# clean an auto than a revolver. I can take my P-35 apart in seconds, and all
# critical moving parts are lying on my table. (In fact, the reason you've
# never seen the insides of a revolver is that it's a non-trivial task to
# take one apart.)
# 
# A revolver is a fine thing, as long as you keep it clean in your desk
# drawer or your holster. But if you're going to subject it to
# (unintentional) mistreatment, a good autoloader is the thing to have.

I agree wholeheartedly with Peter.  I would take a good auto like the 
1911, Beretta, Sig, Browning or Glock over any revolver in any combat
situations.

I have had revolvers jammed on me at times.  Unlike jams with autoloaders,
when a revolver jams, it JAMS!!!  The lockwork just locked up!  This 
required me to take the weapon home, took out my screwdrivers, and 
unlock the thing.  At one time, a gunsmith's attention was required.

And these are good revolvers - S&W and Taurus.

With autoloaders, you needs training to clear jams quickly and on the spot.
With revolvers, you may have to use the weapon as a club once it jams.

-tt