From: kilowatt!root@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Kilowatt admin)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 31 Aug 92 04:51:52 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Kilowatt Computing of Deer Park, NY

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 15:57:25 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Aug30.155725.3241@kilowatt.uucp>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x,comp.human-factors


	Hello all... A word on GUI's from someone who has been hacking with
his FINGERS for 13 (or is it 14?) years now:
	A GUI is a godsend to people who don't want to be "programmers" to
get anything usefull done under UNIX - BUT, who set up the GUI in the first
place? Setting up the GUI is a PAINFULL experience - like X windows.
	I've used X minimally (maybe I'll use it more when I get this
Diamond SpeedSTAR 24 to work with 1024*768), and have found it very usefull.
It's nice to have 3 xterms up and running (and being able to see them while
I'm in another window) that still give me the CLI interface I NEED to develop.
I can't use a GUI to do debugging or editting - I still use TECO which is a
CLI based editor (even though I've made it do a LOT more than DEC's TECO in 
the area of on-screen editting). I have to use my HANDS - I have a much 
clearer view IN MY HEAD of what I'm trying to accomplish than any GUI
programmer could provide me with. I've setup things under X that greatly
improve things, but this is all because of the fact that I can SEE three
or more things at once. 
	An endorsment for X windows: Ever notice how unlike MS-Windows it is?
It lets you actually TYPE things... You can run an X application from an xterm
window... MS-Windows does not allow you to start a Windows app from the MSDOS
CLI - is this stupid or what? Does Windows NT change this? Or is the CLI 
completely gone? I have to use the mouse just to run a Windows app! How yucky.
What if I don't want to make an ICON out of it to run it more easily each
time??? X seems like the GUI for REAL programmers. It's certainly got my vote.
Although I DO see Windows NT becoming more popular for applications. Maybe 
someone will have a Windows NT development kit that runs under X? (hah hah)
	It's nice that GUI's have freed up many peoples time. It greatly
increases the productivity most computer-ignorant people get from their
computers. BUT, it's not a programmer's dream (or not mine anyway). I still
must TYPE most of my commands - and I'm much more productive while typing
than using a MOUSE. I don't have to move my hands from the keyboard to get
things done. 
	An aside about object-oriented programming: What's the deal? Didn't
every GOOD programmer who ever hacked a database, or patched an OS (like
TOPS-10) think this way to begin with? Do GOOD programmers need to worry
about screen access times or CPU load from the GUI to represent the 
algorithms in his head??? I used the object oriented approach all my life!
It's been my salvation from a boring life (where would I be without computers?
On the street corner... selling hot-dogs) Object-oriented programming is for
people that don't visualize (and as a result are MEDIOCRE programmers).
I agree, the average person can get a LOT done with OOP, but that's the
average person. From what I've seen and read, I'd rather hack C code and
use less resources in the mean time.
	Sorry to sound like I'm flaming, but I've been harrassed with Object
Oriented Programming brochures in the mail, et al. Don't see how someone else
can setup a GUI that would represent what I have in my head. Or are they
improving, and allowing the user to define a lot of things? Talking out of
my hat again?
	Oh well... BTW - Wonder why I like typing so much? I can type 110+ WPM
on a BAD day. I can't move the mouse with that much accuracy. And what about
accuracy? I'm a mediocre typist in that area, but I do READ WHAT I'VE TYPED
BEFORE HITTING THE ALMIGHTY ENTER KEY. By looking at some of the posts here
on the net, do you ever get the idea that the author has not read what he's
typed before sending it out? Don't flame me - please? I've got this thing
about the ENGLIGH language, I like it the way it is.
	Anyway... you can reply with flames to my EMAIL address below (if it
gets to me). Using "...uunet!admiral!kilowatt!krewat" seems to work well.
Or you can let everyone see it... It is a discussion group right?

Anyone need a colorized TECO for UNIX? It's great with C code - I altered TECO
to do this back in '84-'85 - when was EMACS hacked for this?
Anyone have a color XTERM that compiles under SVR4 or BSD??? I need one BAD
for using TECO under X windows. It uses ANSI seguences (another portability
feature). Thanks!!!

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