HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Drugs in racing?
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:25:00 -0500

Josh, this reply has nothing to do with the whether or not eventing is
humane. It has to do with drugs in horse racing.

JLI>I went to my first horse race a couple years ago and was
JLI>amazed how prevalent the use of drugs was on the horses, i.e.
JLI>stimulants and pain killers, etc.

Where exactly was this horse race? Did you see a horse given a
stimulant. Or did some railbird tell you something like, "Hoosis
flipped in the gate 'cause they had his mixture too rich"; or, "You
can't outrun old Bobo when they go to his head". Unless you actually
saw a horse given a drug that you know was a CNS stimulant, you
don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. If some
desperate individual thought he'd figured out a way to beat the
test barn, I don't think that he would invite you to watch him hop
his horse. In short: I question your veracity.

Some racing jurisdictions allow the use of mild pain killers, commonly
"bute" and asprin. No state racing commission allows the use of any
strong pain killers such as morphine-like drugs. No state racing
commission allows the use of ANY stimulant. The penalties for using
drugs are quite severe: most racing commissions will rule off a trainer
and anyone else involved in drugging an animal for a period of months
or years...even life. Most jurisdictions will penalize a trainer or
anyone else for having a syringe or a container of any kind of
injectable in their possession. You see Josh, the racing commissions
are
pretty serious about protecting the integrity of horse racing; in fact,
they don't even allow spectators like you in the stable area.

Were you at the race track or a match race in someone's pasture?

JLI>I dont think they should prohibit Horse Racing, but I guess
JLI>none of us will never know what the sport would be like without
JLI>stimulants???

You don't know what horse racing is like, with or without stimulants.

Tom Stovall
AFA Journeyman Farrier

___
 X SLMR 2.1a X A closed mouth gathers no feet.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Best x-mas presant in the world!!
From: chelsea@oneb2.almanac.bc.ca
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 09:38:20 PST
Organization: The Old Coot's (Spare) Almanac

Hi all!

Guess what I got for christ-mas?  A horse of course! (what else would I get
that I would tell you about on this newsgroup:-)) His name is "El Cid"  He
is a large white gelding.  He defenatly has draft horse in him, but he is
not purebred or nothin'. He lives at my uncles ranch, and works as a dude
horse for him. In turn, my uncle feeds him and boards him for free!
The reason for this deal is because I have no where to keep him at my house.
Nor could I afford it.  Anyway, I get to see him all summer and holidays,
weekends etc.


                          CHELSEA+MICKEY (NOT QUITE A HORSE BUT JUST AS
                          GOOD, EVEN IF HE IS A RAT:))AND FOR OUR NEWIST
                          EDITION,  INTRODUCING, EL CID!



               chelsea@oneb2.almanac.bc.ca (Chelsea Graham)
                      The Old Coot's Almanac
               Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada
                    Courtesy the old coot hisse'f!
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Brags Re: Happy Solstice
From: Kathie Robinson <KROBIN@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 22 Dec 1992 13:58:55 EST
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

>I just had to brag to an audience that would appreciate their
>accomplishment - most people here have never heard of dressage.  I can

Congratulations to the whole team!

>only take credit for lungeing him when my wife is unable to work him,
>and for being driver, groom, maintenance man, groundskeeper, stall
>cleaner, etc.  The rest was accomplished by their year-round hard work.

Can I clone you?

>Greg

Kathie Robinson  (who's ex never DID figure out one end of the horse from
Preble County OH (the other - only that he stay away from both!)
From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Brags Re: Happy Solstice
Date: 21 Dec 1992 22:08:50 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu

In article <10348@tetons.idaho.amdahl.com> gnd@idaho.amdahl.com (Greg Darnell) writes:
>and Solstice is happy - my wife's Trakehner gelding named Solstice, 
>that is.  Her Solstice finished 27th in the country out of 770 horses
>competing at 4th level dressage, with an average score of 62.788%, in 
>his first full year of competing at 4th level.  He also finished third
>at 4th level dressage in American Trakehner Association rankings.

Congratulations!  To all 3 of you!

Debbie
deblev@ipac.caltech.edu
From: mary@cloudpeak.tivoli.com (Mary Anthony)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Thanks for the Stall-kicking advice
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:58:42 GMT
Organization: TIVOLI Systems, Inc.


Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for help about Doug's kicking.
It appears that no one has had any bad experience using kicking chains and as
it isn't possible for me to implement the other clever solutions proposed... I
purchased a kicking chain and it appears to have turned the trick.  The chain
is attached to a cuff lined in sheepskin so his pastern is well protected.
Doug has stopped kicking (he isn't stupid).  After a few days, I'll remove the
cuff and see if he has learned not to kick.  If he starts up again, I'll put the
cuff back on until he learns that as long as he going to kick he'll have to
wear the cuff.


Thanks Again,

Mary

*****************************************************************
* YOU WANTED TO OWN A HORSE.		| Mary M. Anthony	*
* YOU WANTED TO BE A HORSE.		| mary@tivoli.com	*
* YOU WANTED YOUR BROTHER TO BE HORSE.	| Tivoli Systems, Inc.	*
*     - from a Nike ad			| Austin, Texas		*
*****************************************************************
--
*****************************************************************
* YOU WANTED TO OWN A HORSE.		| Mary M. Anthony	*
* YOU WANTED TO BE A HORSE.		| mary@tivoli.com	*
* YOU WANTED YOUR BROTHER TO BE HORSE.	| Tivoli Systems, Inc.	*
*     - from a Nike ad			| Austin, Texas		*
*****************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Ruth Vale)
Subject: Re: Brags Re: Happy Solstice
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:30:07 GMT

In article <10348@tetons.idaho.amdahl.com> gnd@idaho.amdahl.com (Greg Darnell) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.191012.738@cas.org>, mlr21@cas.org (Mary Lee Raines) writes:
>> 
>> Today is Solstice.  
>
>and Solstice is happy - my wife's Trakehner gelding named Solstice, 
>that is.  Her Solstice finished 27th in the country out of 770 horses
>competing at 4th level dressage, with an average score of 62.788%, in 
>his first full year of competing at 4th level.  He also finished third
>at 4th level dressage in American Trakehner Association rankings.
>
>I am particularly proud of horse and rider since they got to that point
>in Idaho, where the nearest instructor is 3 hours away, so that they get
>at most two lessons per month, and my wife had never ridden above second
>level before moving here.  I am also proud that they have reached this
>level without ever having a professional trainer on his back since being
>green broke.
>
>I just had to brag to an audience that would appreciate their
>accomplishment - most people here have never heard of dressage.  I can
>only take credit for lungeing him when my wife is unable to work him,
>and for being driver, groom, maintenance man, groundskeeper, stall
>cleaner, etc.  The rest was accomplished by their year-round hard work.
>
>Greg
>-- 

That's an impressive accomplishment for horse and rider - but having you
around to help makes a whopping big difference!  So, you can take some
credit for being driver/groom/mtce man, etc. which allows her to concentrate
on riding.  Well done!

Ruth


-- 
=============================================================================
  I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am
    not sure you realize that what you understand is not what I meant.
=========================== rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca ======================
From: Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: blistering, bleeding...
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 00:00:02 -0500

CH>AI think your claim that blistering a horse is ccruelty is ait harsh.
CH>Whethe or not there is any scientific merit in this therappy, does
CH>nt mean that man people consider it to be of great beneefit...

If you think blistering is beneficial and not cruel, next time you
sprain your ankle, swab it down with 7% Iodine, bandage it up for a
couple of days and see how it feels. If you're real curious, you
don't have to wait 'til you sprain your ankle.

CH>I know at least 1 person who stronny believes in th benefits of
CH>bleedinng horses and continues to use this method in the treatme of
CH>colic. He claims good success...

Does he use leeches? An 18 gauge in the jugular? An ice pick? An axe?
("I dunno what killed her, she was gettin' over the belly ache just fine
when she laid down an' died...")

CH>... so even though there is no scientific mer in bleeding horses
CH>who should stop him?

The nearest law enforcement officer.

Tom Stovall
AFA Journeyman Farrier

___
 X SLMR 2.1a X Katy, Texas: rice, cattle and humongus mosquitos.

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: hannah@pomponio.ai.sri.com (Marsha Jo Hannah)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Carnivorous horse?
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:15:09 GMT
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
In-reply-to: rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca's message of 18 Dec 92 03:56:07 GMT

In article <BzFs9K.EpC@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Ruth Vale) writes:

   One of our mares has taken a likely to eating dog food - usually
   because its the first thing she sees, on the way to her stall, that
   looks like her supper.  She's a *very* easy keeper, about 150 lbs.
   overweight....    She's
   the kind of horse that doesn't know when to stop eating, including
   bad hay or anything else that shows up in front of her face.

   Ruth

I suspect it depends on what kind of dog food and how much she gets.
Cheap dog kibble is mostly grain and fats, which should only make her
fatter; the more expensive brands are more likely to contain meat, or
at least meat byproducts.  One of my equine magazines (can't remember
exactly which one---maybe the donkey magazine?) recently issued a
strong caution against letting the critters have *any* dog food.  The
equine digestive system is set up for plant products; introducing
animal products in the absence of proper intestinal flora and fauna
for digesting same can lead to digestion biproducts which cause colic
or founder.  The fact that this mare is a super-easy keeper and a
"vacuum cleaner" raises red flags for me.  Maybe you can kludge up a
"creep feeder" that the dog can eat out of, but the horse can't?

Marsha Jo Hannah		Murphy must have been a horseman--
La Honda, CA			anything that can go wrong, will!

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: tobeor@pmafire.inel.gov (Ray Hoover)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 19:48:27 GMT
Organization: WINCO
Subject: Re: Happy Solstice
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Organization: WINCO
Keywords: 

Make that three people in Idaho.  And by the way, where did your wife go for her lessons?  I had to stop riding a few years ago when I ruptured a disc in my back, but am getting the itch again.  
Congratulations on you and your wife's and Solstice's success!
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Stallions
Date: 22 Dec 92 06:20:53 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <92356.25669.6042230@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>, 6042230@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
> 
> I have recently been offered a purebred registered Arabian colt, but with
> all the talk of stallions, I'm almost afraid to take him. I have never had
> a colt before. BTW, he is a yearling, and is supposedly well mannered. I
> am going to see him on Dec. 28 and will let you know what I think.
> 
> Anyway, the problem is: If he is really great, should I take him? Any
> thoughts would be appreciated.

Sure, if he is a great colt and what you want, take him and get him gelded
as soon as possible.  BTW, there are really just too many Arab stallions
around.  Too many people bought into the 'black stallion' syndrome and think
that all they have to do is get an Arabian stallion and they will be able
to breed it and make big bucks.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

A yearling colt generally doesn't even know he is a stallion yet, they are
still babies, especially Arabs which mature very slowly.  Don't expect a
big horse, an Arab that age usually isn't very big.  In fact, my mare at
that age still looked like a weanling. 

Sue

> 
> Donna
> 
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: tara@wam.umd.edu (Tara)
Subject: horse vacuums
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 21:11:20 GMT



A friend of mine who boards on the same farm as UMEA wanted me to ask
about horse vacuums....ya know, the type seen in ads of Equus/Practical
Horseman/Horse & Rider, etc

What he wanted to know was...
	*How well do they work?
	*Are they quiet enough/if the horse is used to clippers will they
	have no problem with the vacuum?
	*What brand names are recommended?
	*How are they different from a _Dirt Devil_ vacuum (ie they look
	the same...how does the "professional" vacuum become preferred)?
	*Any other related stuff.....

Thanks!


             ,--, | University of Maryland Equestrian Association 
       _ ___/ /\| |
   ,;`( )__, )  ~ | Horses: Quaker, Bud, Playboy, Tommy, Casey, Darla
  //  //   '--;   | 	    Nehi, Classy, Dee, Vern
  '   \     |     | 
tara@wam.umd.edu  |         



From: Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Drugs in racing?
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:19:10 -0500

(deleted discussion on drugs in racing)

JLI>  I cant argue with you on what the "mild stimulants" were because
JLI>neither do I remember, nor would I know what they were if I did.
The
JLI>program guides for that particular day of racing used abbreviations
JLI>codes for the different "mild stimulants" each horse was using...

Josh, I hate to labor the point, but understand this: there is no
such thing as a legal stimulant, mild or otherwise, in any racing
jurisdiction. You are confusing mild pain killers and bleeder
medications with stimulants.

In some jurisdictions, all drugs are forbidden. This practice seems,
to be the most logical in terms of maintaining the integrity of
racing with the public. (If you are not on intimate terms with the
DRF or the track program, it's easy to get confused about the various
kinds of medications a horse can legally receive.) Running horses drug
free seems to work very well. New York has, arguably, the best
racing in the world...with no drugs.

Tom Stovall

AFA Journeyman Farrier
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X If at first you don't succeed...distroy all the
evidence!
From: brownlow@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: exit
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:57:39 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College


selenium and hard keeper
My 3 day eventing pals feed "Alphasel" regularly to prevent tying up. In the
seventies we used to give a tablespoon of baking soda in the feed while
campaigning. I have kept horses in selenium poor areas of Canada and have
always used feed with added selenium to prevent white muscle disease. This
was all checked with vets beforehand and again, no need to feed vit. E.
Jennifer
From: dabay@morse.cns.vt.edu (Marian Dabay)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Brags Re: Happy Solstice
Date: 22 Dec 92 13:49:53 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, VA

In article <10348@tetons.idaho.amdahl.com> gnd@idaho.amdahl.com (Greg Darnell) writes:
>
>Her Solstice finished 27th in the country out of 770 horses

>I just had to brag to an audience that would appreciate their
>accomplishment - most people here have never heard of dressage.  I can
>only take credit for lungeing him when my wife is unable to work him,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>and for being driver, groom, maintenance man, groundskeeper, stall
>cleaner, etc.  The rest was accomplished by their year-round hard work.
>

Greg

I would like to congratulate your wife, but most especially YOU!!
Without all your help and understanding, your wife probably wouldn't 
be where she is today.  Thank God for understanding husbands who 
put up with doing most of the grunt work, so that we can enjoy the fun 
part of horse ownership.

I would like to take this opportunity to let all of you in the background
know how much we all appreciate you!!  

Marian Dabay
From: pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: horse vacuums
Date: 1 Jan 1993 23:48:35 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <1993Jan1.211120.15789@wam.umd.edu> tara@wam.umd.edu (Tara) writes:
>
>
>A friend of mine who boards on the same farm as UMEA wanted me to ask
>about horse vacuums.....

Our barn manager had an "Electro-Groom Vacuum with booster power",
which is $499 from Dover Saddlery (800-989-1500).  It was pretty
quiet, and even horses (like mine) who'd never seen one before didn't
seem to mind the noise.  They thought it looked a bit scary though.
They seemed to like the massaging action, and it got them really
clean.  It was a real advantage to have one in the winter when it's
too cold for baths.  I don't have any experience with the smaller Dirt
Devil types.

-Sarah Pallas


Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Ruth Vale)
Subject: Re: More on bowed tendons
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:46:26 GMT

In article <Bzq475.I0C@boi.hp.com> kris@boi.hp.com (kris troxel) writes:
>I have had great luck with the Professional Choice "Sports Medicine Boots".
>While I haven't had to deal with a bowed tendon, I use my horses under very
>stressful situations for their legs. I find these boots provide support as 
>
>Kris Troxel

I'm currently treating my mare for a serious bowed tendon - accident
happened on Oct 25 under another rider and she'll be coming out of
"solidary" confinement on Christmas Day - or at least that's when
the poulticing stops (I hope!).  I"ve been warned against Prof. Choice 
Boots by my vet - if I do decide to use them, I'm to put them on for
no more than 1 hour at a time and to not use them in turnout.  Logic
seems to stem from the principle that once you start using support
of this kind - you have to keep using it.  

Anybody else here pros and cons on these boots?

Ruth


-- 
=============================================================================
  I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am
    not sure you realize that what you understand is not what I meant.
=========================== rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca ======================
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: ktracy@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Karin L Tracy)
Subject: Re: Stallions
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:30:32 GMT

           Stuff deleted...
>
>I'm afraid I disagree with you here.  Stallions can be dangerous because
>they are stallions.  Here in my state there is a law that a stallion can
>only be turned out in a lot with six foot high fences.  This law has been
>on the books for over 100 years and is sadly ignored for the most part.
>Recently a local Appy stallion escaped from his lot (only fenced with
>one strand of eleric fence) and traveled three miles (!) and was found
>attempting to climb a fence to get in with a mare in heat.  Geldings don't
>do things like this.

>
>> The degree of discipline depends upon the personality of the individual
>> stallion.  I've seen people really lay into stallions for minor
>> transgressions.  If a young stallion nips at you, you should correct
>> him, just as you would if a young filly nips at you.  A protracted
>> beating with a whip is IMHO more likely to make him belligerant
>> in the long run than to instill proper discipline.  Stallions
>> aren't monsters, they are just horses to the nth degree.
>>
>>
>> Debbie
>> deblev@ipac.caltech.edu
>
>Talk to some people who routinely handle stallions.  I have.  Some of them
>can be absolutely the best thing to handle with no problem, then suddenly
>something will trigger them and they turn crazy.  One breeder I know says
>her stallion is absolutely a sweetie until the young colts get about six
>or seven months old.  Then he rages his stall, wanting to get out and kill
>all the potential male rivals.
>The woman I know who was kicked in the head by her 24 year old stallion
>had never had a moment's trouble with him before.  And she had had him all
>his life!
>The thing you MUST remember is, stallions are very often have their brains
>in only one place, and that's not in their heads!
>
>Sue

As a BREEDER who has two stallions, plus an 'ex' (gelded at 12), my
question is this, why, unless you are a breeder, do people have
stallions?  Even if the horse is 'breeding quality', the chances of
attracting mare owners to breed to your horse are nil without a
great deal of advertising and promotion together with demonstrable
proof, e.g. show or competion record, that he has more than looks
and pedigree.  I have seen far too many rank, unmanageable horses
up for sale because someone thought they had a superior animal
and therefore he should not be gelded.  The best stallion prospect
aalso makes the best gelding,  and, unless you are a breeder, you
and your horse gain a great deal more than you lose!

                     Karin Tracy and THE MIGHTY MORGANS
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: Lipizzan vs. Lipizzaner
Date: 2 Jan 93 08:19:53 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In Article 10751 (2 more) in rec.equestrian:
From: amarch@garnet.berkeley.edu (Anne Marchant)

>John had a question about why the USLR (and others) refer to the
>American Lipizzan as Lipizzan instead of Lipizzaner.

>In my opinion it may be more appropriate to use Lipizzan (pl. Lipizzans)
>when referring to American Lipizzans.  One might want to use Lipizzaner
>(German adjectival) when referring to the Austrian or German Lipizzaner
>since those are German speaking countries.

	I think there is a real danger here of people thinking that
because you are using different terms for those horses bred in America 
that they are not of the same breed as those bred in Europe and thereby 
allow some people to devalue the American breeding.
	If you are going to encourage one type of naming convention
then it should be a single one for all horses of the breed.  Having
said that I agree with your next statements --
  
>Having said this, as John pointed out, many use both terms.  The only
>real mistake is spelling it Lippizan, instead of Lipizzan as is
>sometimes done.

	Fortunately you are all very forgiving of us who make that spelling
error, I don't remember seeing you correct anyone for it.  Thanks!

>A rose by any other name...?

	Agreed.  Afterall the Arabian is often called Arab, why get too
particular, perhaps we should all just be glad we are speaking of and
admiring the same breed regardless of the word we use.

					Tracy and everybody