From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: israel's friends
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: talk
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:18:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.1777.22355@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
>To: Adam Shostack

>Wrt to the thoughts of what Western opinion elites I am privy to,
>in a specific sense that is obviously a private matter. In a more
>general sense I've had conversations and private communications
>with quite a few people at Harvard, MIT and elsewhere, in and out
>of government, which lead me to the conclusion that private
>opinion in the U.S. and the West towards Israel is not nearly as
>friendly as public opinion. And public opinion is already none too friendly.

>Try this simple experiment. The New York Times is probably the
>most influential policy elite newspaper in the the U.S. and the
>West (and quite possibly the world). Review all the articles on
>Israel on the op-ed page for the last year or two years. Flag all
>the pro-Israel articles. Now flag all the pro-Israel articles
>that are written by non-Jews. You are going to end up with a very
>small set of articles. That large silence should be worrying
>Israelis and Diaspora Zionists.

>When only people like William Safire and A.M. Rosenthal are
>strongly supporting Israel in the U.S., Israel is in very deep trouble.

Of course, this isn't true.  Like George Bush, you seem to have trouble
understanding the difference between dissent and dislike.  Virtually 
EVERYONE supports Israel, though many question some of its actions.

>I find it fascinating how many Zionists wildly veer back and
>forth between the extremes of thinking on the one hand that the
>entire world is anti-Semitic and out to get them and on the other
>hand denying that the world has grown deeply disenchanted with
>Israeli domestic and foreign policies. I find the thought and
>mood swings and general inconsistency inexplicable.

I find it interesting that you seem to be overgeneralizing just a tad.
I don't know any Zionists who claim these things.  Certainly not both,
and not either one separately, for the most part.

But then again, you know more Western opinion elites than I do...

>Wrt to American funding of NATO vs. Israel: how much aid does the
>U.S. grant to Western Europeans on a per capita basis each year?
>I'm sure it doesn't come close to $1,000. Also, Western Europe is

You're wrong.  You're forgetting that we have troops and bases over
there, which cost *far* more than the simple handing over of cash would.

>of far greater strategic and sentimental significance for the
>majority of Americans than Israel. Israel is arguably more a

They're also more able to defend themselves.

>strategic liability than a strategic asset for the U.S., as the
>Gulf War amply proved.

Yes, as the Gulf War proved, when the Iraqis DIDN'T have nuclear
weapons, thanks to the Israeli bombing of Osiraq.

>The enemy of Western Europe, the Soviet Union, was indeed until
>recently our enemy. Many of the enemies of Israel are America's
>friends. 

Oh, yes.  Great friends.  Those wonderful Saudis, who wouldn't let our
servicemen practice their religion?  Or the Kuwaitis, who committed a
mass expulsion of just a few more people than Israel did?  Or the other
Gulf states, who funded the PLO up until the Gulf War?

>	  Many Americans resent Israel trying to dictate to us who
>are enemies should be on the basis of a purely Israeli agenda.
>Israel has its agenda, we Americans have our agenda. The Israeli
>lobby could be ground up pretty badly in the gap between those
>two agendas.

Why does this sound like Jerry Falwell, or Pat Robertson, or anyone
else, explaining that "Americans are outraged over the smut in the media."

Tell the truth.  *They're* outraged over the smut in the media.

And *you* resent Israel trying to dictate...

No *rational* person would resent that, since it makes sense.  EVERY
country in the world tries to dictate to us who our enemies should be on
the basis of their own interests.  Why would they do any different?

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | "We don't need anymore [sic] wretched refuse.  It's 
niepornt@phoenix.    |  time to send the Statue of Liberty somewhere else"
   princeton.edu     |      -- Jack "Not a bigot" Schmidling, 1/7/93
Baltimore Orioles 93 |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast