HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gaynor@inferno.rutgers.edu (Silver)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,news.admin.policy,comp.admin.policy,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.d
Subject: Re: [UPI] "FBI probes computer child porn at Cornell"
Date: 23 Nov 92 01:51:12 GMT
Followup-To: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

UPI writes:
> The FBI is investigating whether a Cornell University sophomore has
> transmitted child pornography over computer bulletin boards, a report said
> Friday.
Washington DC!  Listen up!  Give the FBI more important things to do!

> material involving sexual exploitation of minors
I'll bet they're payed a hell of a lot more than Ronald McD would pay 'em.

> The name of the student had not been released because he had not yet been
> charged with any crime.
Then don't jerk my fucking chain.

> Netnews
That's "Usenet" or "UseNet", not "Netnews".

> In October, sophomores David Blumenthal and Mark Pilgrim were sentenced to
> community service for creating a computer virus that wreaked havoc on
> software as far away as Japan.
Good.  Thanks!

> In 1988, graduate student Robert Morris Jr. was convicted and fined $10,000
> for launching a computer ``worm,'' which also destroys software but differs
> from a virus in that it is self-perpetuating.
THE PERSECUTION OF MORRIS WAS UNJUSTIFIED (and I _hate_ using all-caps for
emphasis).  It was his graduate project in computer risks and security.  Given
the worm's tenacity, the likelihood of its accidental release is high enough to
believe that its release _was_ accidental.  Regardless, it did nothing more
than propagate itself.  Many consider his worm a good thing.

This country (USA) is pissing me off.

Regards, [Ag]
From: kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: [comp.org.eff.talk]  Re: Query: Can Universities limit network access &/or 'spy` on u
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:01:24 GMT
Followup-To: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,comp.org.eff.talk
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

[A repost - Carl]

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
Subject:  Re: Query: Can Universities limit network access &/or 'spy` on u
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 07:36:37 GMT


On a similar topic, I think that my university is the most anal-
retentive regarding its computers of any university on the planet.

I go to Southwest Missouri State University, in Springfield, and I
have heard rumors that students will no longer be able to get Inter-
net access next semester.  Others have said that Internet is just being
removed from another machine, and I'm not sure what to believe.

One of my friends was recently ordered by the head of some computer
department to unsubscribe to a list server he was using, because "stu-
dents never sign off of the list servers at the end of the semester."
And he was actually using it for ACADEMIC purposes (and I subscribe
to two servers, I could be next!).

Our school DOES have a few problems with Internet, the main one being
people who ftp 5 or 6 megabyte files at peak hours.  They seem to 
think that the simplest way to solve all this would be to cut stu-
dents off from Internet entirely.  Seems like amputating your arm
to be rid of a gangrenous finger to me.

They also don't like MUCKing--they don't consider it a "serious use
of computer resources."  But MUCKing is not putting an appreciable
strain on SMSU resources; I think they're just coming down on it
because they don't understand it.

I had thought that when an educational organization such as SMSU 
signed onto Internet, one of the basic tenets was that they had to
give any student instant access.  But as it stands now, we have to
get a sponsor's signature before we can get onto the mainframe with
Internet access.  And it's a very lousy mainframe, too.

Is there anything I can do about this?

--
Chris Meadows // CHM173S@SMSVMA // CMEADOWS@NYX.CS.DU.EDU
   "If blood be the price of admiralty, then I've just bought me 
    a naval commission."  -- Corwin, SIGN OF THE UNICORN, Roger Zelazny

-- 
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [alt.dreams]  Re: McElwaine's postings (was Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS, and Dreams)
Followup-To: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,alt.dreams
Originator: kadie@eff.org
Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:17:07 GMT

[A repost - Carl]

Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject:  Re: McElwaine's postings (was Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS, and Dreams)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:04:00 GMT

Many thanks to Gary Trujillo for bringing to light attempts to muzzle
Robert McElwaine.  McElwaine's beliefs couldn't be farther from my own,
but attempts to deprive him of his rights by revoking his "privleges"
are unacceptable.  

I wonder if McElwaine would be experiencing the same difficulties if
the content of his messages were in praise of the Reublican Party or 
the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals?

I suggest we all send Robert McElwaine a message of support at
mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu, and a message of protest about his
treatment to Charles Brenner (data systems manager?) at
cbrenner@uwec.edu.

I know it's a cliche, but if we allow them to silence McElwaine, it's
me they'll silence next and you after me.

Erik Timmerman
Film/Video Department
RIT
-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent EFF; this is just me.
 =kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: rthomson@mesa.dsd.es.com (Rich Thomson)
Subject: Re: [UPI] "FBI probes computer child porn at Cornell"
Reply-To: rthomson@dsd.es.com (Rich Thomson)
Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 00:49:34 GMT

In article <Nov.22.20.51.11.1992.20989@inferno.rutgers.edu>
	gaynor@inferno.rutgers.edu (Silver) writes:
>THE PERSECUTION OF MORRIS WAS UNJUSTIFIED (and I _hate_ using all-caps for
>emphasis).  It was his graduate project in computer risks and security.  Given
>the worm's tenacity, the likelihood of its accidental release is high enough to
>believe that its release _was_ accidental.  Regardless, it did nothing more
>than propagate itself.  Many consider his worm a good thing.

This is rediculous.  I attended a talk given by Donn Seeley, one of
the people who worked with the Berkeley crowd to disassemble the
worm.  There isn't any likely reason to believe that this was an
innocent experiment gone awry.  There is every reason that Morris was
pulling a prank he expected to get away with.

Many of us lost important time and MONEY in tracking this thing down
and stamping it out.  I don't know _anyone_ who considers this worm to
be a good thing except perhaps the poster of the above offal.

						    -- Rich
-- 
		      Don't blame me; I voted Libertarian
Disclaimer: I speak for myself, except as noted; Copyright 1992 Rich Thomson
UUCP: ...!uunet!dsd.es.com!rthomson			Rich Thomson
Internet: rthomson@dsd.es.com	IRC: _Rich_		PEXt Programmer
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,alt.society.civil-liberty,misc.legal
From: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,alt.dreams
Subject: Re: [alt.dreams]  Re: McElwaine's postings (was Re: THE DIVINE     MASTERS, and Dreams)
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:40:36 GMT
Reply-To: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

In article <1992Nov16.144854.9296@ms.uky.edu>, morgan@ms.uky.edu (Wes Morgan)
 writes:
>>Newsgroups: alt.dreams
>>From: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
>>Subject:  Re: McElwaine's postings (was Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS, and Dreams)
>>
>>Many thanks to Gary Trujillo for bringing to light attempts to muzzle
>>Robert McElwaine.  McElwaine's beliefs couldn't be farther from my own,
>>but attempts to deprive him of his rights by revoking his "privleges"
>>are unacceptable.  
>
>Um, his privileges aren't being revoked yet; see my comments below.

[a lotta stuff deleted]
>
>--Wes
>
>-- 
>MORGAN@UKCC         |       Wes Morgan       |        ...!ukma!ukecc!morgan 

You are quite right, his "privleges"  (I insist on the quotes, we may
be talking about a right, not a privilege) are not being revoked yet,
there is only the threat.

I hear your excellent points clearly.  Robert McElwaine is a bother/
nuisance.  In response to my email of support to him, he sent me
an ephamplet.  But is he any more than that?  Is he a bigger bother
than a groan and a quick stab at the 'n' key?  (And surely he is
not alone on the net in engendering that reaction.)  

What would happen if he were ignored rather than fussed over?

Back to my first point: if I wanted to deprive a person of a freedom,
the first thing I would try is to tell him it was a privilege, not
a right.

I am looking forward to your response.

Erik Timmerman
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,news.admin.misc,news.config
From: evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk (Mark Evans)
Subject: Re: [news.admin.misc, et al.]  ALERT RE POSTINGS AND CORNELL ACCESS TO ALT.*.*.EROTICA HIERARCHY
Organization: Aston University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL241235]
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:20:29 GMT

Carl M. Kadie (kadie@cs.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: [A repost - Carl]
: 
: Newsgroups: news.admin.misc,news.config
: From: M. Stuart Lynn <msl1@cornell.edu>
: Subject:  ALERT RE POSTINGS AND CORNELL ACCESS TO ALT.*.*.EROTICA HIERARCHY
: Message-ID: <1992Nov18.202832.1951@mail.cornell.edu>
: Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:28:32 GMT
: 
: ALERT ON POSTINGS TO AND CORNELL ACTION REGARDING
: ALT.BINARIES.PICTURES.EROTICA
: 
: It has come to my attention that certain pictures encoded as GIF files
: are circulating on the NetNews newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica
: (a.b.p.e) whose transmission may constitute violations of the United
: States Code regarding sexual exploitation of minors, in particular
: Section 2252. These pictures depict unclothed young children displayed in
: a manner that could be construed as constituting sexually explicit
: conduct as defined in the Code. Although some of these pictures may have
: originated from outside of the United States, it is known that a number
: of them have been re-distributed from sources within the United States.
: 
: One of these sources may have originated at Cornell, but there appear to
: be other sources associated with other institutions. It also appears that
: individuals from many institutions are explicily requesting copies of
: these files. 
: 
: Effective immediately, Cornell's official newstand will no longer provide
: access to the a.b.p.e, hierarchy at least until we can ascertain that
: there has been no violation of the law.

A point a big fuss was made about 2 years ago about kiddie porn
on the net.
These turned out to be pictures scanned from a japanese magazine
featuring models dressed in school uniform type clothes.
These models appeared to be under 18 to americans, when in fact they
were women dressed and attempting to be children.
: 
: M. Stuart Lynn
: Vice President for Information Technologies
: -- 
: Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Evans                                   |evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk
+(44) 21 429 9199  (Home)                    |evansmp@cs.aston.ac.uk
+(44) 21 359 6531 x4039 (Office)             |
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [eff.mail.cwis-l]  Re: CWIS Policies, Procedures, Guidelines, etc.
Followup-To: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,eff.mail.cwis-l
Originator: kadie@eff.org
Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:49:51 GMT

[A repost - Carl]

Newsgroups: eff.mail.cwis-l
From: d_tindall@LUKE.SPU.EDU (Dave Tindall - Seattle Pacific University)
Subject:  Re: CWIS Policies, Procedures, Guidelines, etc.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:29:26 GMT

>
> I would like to receive any copies of CWIS policies as well and have
> written to several schools for copies.  If there are any available that
> can be FTP'd I would like to know....Thank You.
>
> Kim Granquist (kgranqu3@ua1vm.ua.edu)

Excuse the message I just sent...without these valuable comments...

The NSF had a project to collect information on policies and procedures from
many academic institutions. I received a list of 70-80 "policy and procedure"
documents that institutions have submitted to that project within the last
week or so.

anonymous ftp to nnsc.nsf.net
cd to "policies-procedures"
the policy-procedure documents are listed by organization

>===============================================================<
: David W. Tindall                              SSSS            :
: Executive Director                            S    PPPP       :
: Seattle Pacific University                    SSSS P  P U  U  :
: Computer & Information Systems                   S PPPP U  U  :
: INTERNET:  d_tindall@luke.spu.edu             SSSS P    U  U  :
: PHONE & VOICE MAIL: (206)281-2239                  P    U  U  :
: FAX: (206)281-2850                                      UUUU  :
>===============================================================<
-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent EFF; this is just me.
 =kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [talk.abortion]  Re: Larry Margolis contacts my sysadmin
Followup-To: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,talk.abortion
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 04:16:22 GMT

[A repost - Carl]

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: margoli@watson.ibm.com (Larry Margolis)
Subject:  Re: Larry Margolis contacts my sysadmin
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 03:06:51 GMT

In <1992Nov21.003516.21632@ncsu.edu> dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu ( ) writes:
>In article <dd11skh@rpi.edu>
>keegan@acm.rpi.edu (James G. Keegan Jr.) writes:
>>dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>
>>> Despite your threatening e-mail to my sysadmin,
>
>> i'd like to see some proof of this allegation, unless
>> it's just another lie, of course.
>
>Here's the e-mail that Larry Margolis sent to my system
>administrators, forwarded from one of the NCSU sysadmins.
>I omitted the sender's address from the e-mail.

You also omitted your name.  Any particular reason for that?

You were also posting from a different ID (dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu);
the first appearance of dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu was in the anonymous
"letter-bombing".  And that had names attached like "big tree", "Woody Allen",
or (as above) no name.

I just tried fingering, and your usual ID is still valid (in fact, you're
on it right now), while the dsh ID gave back:
  Login name: dsh                         In real life:
  Directory: /usr/users2/dsh              Shell: /bin/csh
  On since Nov 19 16:49:32 on ttyp2 from :0.0
  8 hours 12 minutes Idle Time
  No Plan.

So how was I supposed to know that dsh was the same lying weasel that
posts to talk.abortion as dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu?  You didn't
start using the dsh ID to post here until after people complained
about the anonymous posts to other groups.

>>From: dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu ( )

I don't see any threats, Dougie.
--
Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent any organization; this is just me.
 = kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,comp.admin.policy
From: kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [alt.censorship]  Sex Censorship
Followup-To: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,alt.censorship
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:12:57 GMT

[A repost - Carl]

From: apohl@unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
Subject:  Sex Censorship
Date: 19 Nov 92 06:28:28 GMT

Recently all sex-related newsgroups have been banned from the usenet here
at the University of British Columbia.  I'm new to the usenet/internet
(I'm still not sure what each of these is), so I don't have any idea what
these newsgroups are called or what was on them.  Those responsible for
banning them (primarily the president's office) mentioned things like evil
lewd stories of rape and pillage, and people ogling animated porn on the
their computers at the office making female coworkers nearby
uncomfortable.  How much of this ever really happened or existed is
anyone's guess.  The language the administration, and particularly
university President David Strangway, used in justifying this was really
colourful, foaming at the mouth stuff, referring to a poison pervading the
university's community, corrupting and rotting moral fibre, and other
Strangelovesque phrases.

So now we can't even see these newsgroups listed when we ask for an
overview of available newsgroups.  Punching in a keyword like "sex" to
search for results in nothing.  It's like sex never existed on the internet.

What I'm wondering is this:  Are these newsgroups really so evil and
dangerous?  Are there no reasonable, progressive discussions of matters
sexual in them, or anywhere in the entire newsnet?  Have any other
institutions taken this step?  Would they even be able to in the U.S.
without transgressing constitutional guarantees of free speech, or is this
just one of the virtues of living in clean asexual Canada?  Am I wrong to
be just a teensy bit outraged by this?

Derrick Pohl
apohl@unixg.ubc.ca
Sorry, no cute ASCII pix or moving sentiments at this time.....
-- 
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,comp.org.eff.talk
From: kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: [comp.org.eff.talk]  Re: Query: Can Universities limit network access &/or 'spy` on u
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:01:38 GMT
Followup-To: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,comp.org.eff.talk
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

[A repost - Carl]

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: john@iastate.edu (John Hascall)
Subject:  Re: Query: Can Universities limit network access &/or 'spy` on u
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:04:32 GMT

cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:
}On a similar topic, I think that my university is the most anal-
}retentive regarding its computers of any university on the planet.
}I go to Southwest Missouri State University, in Springfield, and I have
}heard rumors that students will no longer be able to get Internet access...

}Is there anything I can do about this?

transfer?

(That's not as flip as it sounds) When students start asking the admissions
office questions like:

   Do you have `T1' or better access to Internet?
   Do all students get Internet access?  Under what limits?
   Do all students get usernames?  On what kind of systems?  Limits?

then the university will start realizing the importance of such facilities
-- hopefully the day will come when these questions stop getting asked, I
mean nobody asks:

   Do you have running water?  Electricity?  Indoor plumbing?

anymore (at least in up here in Iowa ;-)

John
-- 
John Hascall                   ``An ill-chosen word is the fool's messenger.''
Systems Software Engineer
Project Vincent
Iowa State University Computation Center  +  Ames, IA  50011  +  515/294-9551
-- 
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 19:29:14 EST
From: Nicholas C. Hester <IA80024@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: Re: [UPI] "FBI probes computer child porn at Cornell"
 <9211211820.AA14627@crocus.cit.cornell.edu> <1992Nov21.184453.4548@eff.org>
 <Nov.22.20.51.11.1992.20989@inferno.rutgers.edu>

In article <Nov.22.20.51.11.1992.20989@inferno.rutgers.edu>,
gaynor@inferno.rutgers.edu (Silver) says:
>
>
>> Netnews
>That's "Usenet" or "UseNet", not "Netnews".

On IBM machines the reader for Usenet is called NETNEWS.  People around
here often refer to the perusal of Usenet groups as "reading NetNews."
___

  Nicholas  Hester
ia80024@Maine.bitnet
ia80024@Maine.maine.edu
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Subject: Re: [UPI] "FBI probes computer child porn at Cornell"
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:20:57 GMT

In article <Nov.22.20.51.11.1992.20989@inferno.rutgers.edu>
gaynor@inferno.rutgers.edu (Silver) writes (In response to a UPI
article reposted by Carl Kadie):

>Washington DC!  Listen up!  Give the FBI more important things to do!

I agree with this sentiment in principle.  However, I am extremely
happy that the FBI is investigating the poster of the articles in
question, and not trying to shut down Cornell's Netnews facilities or
confiscating their equipment.  In short, I think the FBI is acting
responsibly (compared to much the recent history of electronic law
enforcement), and I applaud them.

>> Netnews
>That's "Usenet" or "UseNet", not "Netnews".

No.  First of all USENET is capitalized "USENET" or "Usenet", not "UseNet",
secondly, Altnet *is* *not* Usenet... Usenet is the set consisting of the
"big seven" hierarchies, news, comp, rec, soc, sci, misc, talk.  The set of
all hierarchies, including Usenet, Altnet, Gnusnet, Clarinet, and many that
have explicit name other than their hierarchy name may be most appropriately
referred to as "Netnews".  So the UPI article was right and you're wrong.

>> In 1988, graduate student Robert Morris Jr. was convicted and fined $10,000
>> for launching a computer ``worm,'' which also destroys software but differs
>> from a virus in that it is self-perpetuating.
>THE PERSECUTION OF MORRIS WAS UNJUSTIFIED (and I _hate_ using all-caps for
>emphasis).  It was his graduate project in computer risks and security.  Given
>the worm's tenacity, the likelihood of its accidental release is high enough to
>believe that its release _was_ accidental.  Regardless, it did nothing more
>than propagate itself.  Many consider his worm a good thing.

Before pronouncing your ignorance to the world, why don't you read up
on the actual history of what happened?  Quite a bit has been written,
both about the technical nature of the worm and about Morris's
motivation in writing it.  1) The worm was not a "graduate project",
and in fact was in way directly related to his graduate course work.
2) The worm did something much more than propagate itself... it
crashed machines.  It did so by replicating uncontrollably due several
bugs.  Even if one assumes no harmful intentions on Morris's part,
releasing the worm in this untested, buggy state was an extremely
irresponsible (and arrogant) act which I personally deplore.  (I'll
add here that I do think the prosecution came down on the kid way
harder than was appropriate, however.)

--
Jurgen Botz                  |   Internet: JBotz@mtholyoke.edu
Academic Systems Consultant  |     Bitnet: JBotz@mhc.bitnet
Mount Holyoke College        |      Voice: (US) 413-538-2375 (daytime)
South Hadley, MA, USA        | Snail Mail: J. Botz, 01075-0629
Xref: sparky alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:3457 news.admin.policy:562 comp.admin.policy:1536 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.d:9392
From: news@n7kbt.rain.com (John Opalko)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,news.admin.policy,comp.admin.policy,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.d
Subject: Re: [UPI] "FBI probes computer child porn at Cornell"
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:43:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: n7kbt.By6H4A.L9K
Organization: Two strange people in Forest Grove, OR

In article <1enjq4INNslt@clinet.fi> alien@clinet.fi (Risto Juvonen) writes:
>
> huh, I'm very pleased that I'm living in Finland, ...
>Nice to live in _free_ country! Sorry for you, U.S. citizens...

I'm sorry for us, too.  One of these days, I'm going to move to a country
that's *actually* civilized, instead of just pretending to be.  I'm American
by an accident of birth, not by choice.  A few years ago, I fixed the error
of having been born in Illinois.  Perhaps, once I can overcome my inertia,
I will fix the error of having been born in the U.S.

So, where can I go to learn Finnish?  :-)


John Opalko
john@n7kbt.rain.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,news.admin.policy,comp.admin.policy,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.d