From: llarsen%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Loren Larsen)
Subject: Re: Japanese Economic War (?)
Date: 13 Dec 92 21:28:44 MST
Reply-To: llarsen%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu
Organization: University of Utah, CS Dept., Salt Lake City

In article <1ggtgnINNlmb@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, aj843@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert L. Stone) writes:

|> Well, to my reading the recently posted article "Does America Say
|> Yes to Japan?" does anything but declare the superiority of the
|> Japanese system...in fact it serves as an introduction to the
|> Japanese business system and shows how that system is not compatible
|> with its counterpart in the United States in its present form.
|> As to the "recent events" recounted they do little to refute the
|> arguments of the paper or reverse the flow of capital from the
|> United States to Japan.
|> 
|> >I recall when the CIA was being criticized for the "ten feet tall"
|> >syndrome, in which our analysts supposedly gave the KGB credit for
|> >being invincible, only to discover the truth behind the facade when
|> >the Soviet economy and polity finally collapsed.  The latest
|> >version of the "yellow peril" writings seems much the same to me...
|> 
|> I'm afraid I fail to see the relevance of this argument.  The
|> Japanese are not engaging in unfair practices by keeping all U.S.
|> (and other 'foreign') companies out of their markets because the CIA
|> overestimated the KGB years ago?  Come on!

It's perfectly relevant to the argument.  Your interpretation of this 
excellent example makes me question the logic you argue with very seriously.
If our government and media make the Japanese out to be a much larger threat
than they actually are, the people of the US (who don't shy away from too many
fights where national pride are concerned) will rally to the cause.  Bush
believes we did that and won the cold war.  I think we did that, won the
cold war, but not for that reason- that's another discussion though.

|> >Well, I say that the Japan of today only claims to be a free-
|> >market, democratic society, but has not yet been able to shake off
|> >its feudal roots and structures, which is what MITI, the keiretsu,
|> >the status of women, and on and on are all about.
|> 
|> The operative word here is *Claims* - the article (as well as the
|> excellent PBS Frontline: "Losing the War With Japan") points out,
|> Japan has made little to no effort to move to a free-market economy
|> open to any other country.  Agreement after agreement have been made
|> between the U.S. and Japan regarding trade practices...and all of
|> them have been broken by Japan.  The MITI seems more analogous to a
|> committee for economic war with the keiretsu as the branches of the
|> military for that war rather than the remnants of Japan's "feudal
|> roots."

I fail to see why it makes any sense for Japan to want economic war with us.
First, we are their best customer, if we don't thrive economically neither do
they.  While it is true that the Japanese have an incredibly efficient 
manufacturing sector, the inefficiency in the rest of their economy and their
government more than compensate.  For example, they have 3 times for people
per capita involved in retail sales than the US.  Now the US has much higher
demand and most lavish spending habits than the Japanese.  Why would this be?
Could it possibly be inefficiency?  If I want to open up a store in the
Japan, I must get written approval from all the other store owners for about
1 mile around.  Can you get that?  Nope, not the Japanese or the Americans.
They just have laws that inhibit growth in general.  They also have a very
vertical economy meaning that Sony not only makes the TVs and VCRs, but they
own the trucks that deliver them and the stores that sell them.  Now why is
a Sony store going to sell RCA TVs?  They're not and we also know why RCA
can't just open their own store.  I don't really think this is some conspiracy
to keep American companies out.  These are old laws and are hopelessly anti-
business by American standards.  

|> >Those of us who believe in free market economics and free
|> >government know that our system has the laws of mathematics on its
|> >side and, given enough time, will emerge superior.
|> 
|> While I believe in a free market (as long as it is open to all)
|> as well as free government, I fail to see how transferring the
|> wealth of the U.S. to Japan at an incredible rate counts as our
|> system "having the laws of mathematics on its side."  That transfer
|> is in fact taking place at a rate that by the year 2000 Japan will
|> surpass the U.S. and become the wealthiest country on the Earth.

What do the Japanese really have?  An increased and insatiable desire for
American goods?  American real estate?  So what?  They love anything that
is American.  They are very good customers and will be even better customers
in future if we are intelligent about it.  Of course now that we are 
indoctrinating them with out ways of life, I don't see how the cultural
barriers you talk about are going to last long.  Now they are buying tons
of US real estate.  Again I say big deal.  What do they really own?  They
can't take the buildings back to Japan (it costs too much and there is no
where to put them), they can't employ people for less than minimum wage there,
they still have to pay taxes.  Of course since they don't vote, we can just
raise those taxes as much as we want, who's going to complain?  In fact, if
we really want that land back, we can just raise the taxes on Japanese land
so high they beg us to take it back for nothing.  No big deal.  In the meantime
they create jobs and invest in the growth of America.  While they are doing 
this, they can't use their profits to improve the infrastructure of Japan, we
can use the higher tax revenue to increase ours.

I don't believe the threat of Japan is as serious as many would like us to
believe.  American business has serious challenges ahead as does the rest of
the country.  I believe that in the coming years, Japan and the US will 
continue to grow closer to interdependence and begin to build on our 
enormous wealth potential together.

Loren

From: alanm@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Alan McGowen)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:24:58 GMT
Subject: Why do they hate us?
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA