From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: Mensa (was Re: Kinesiology - how I heard about it)
Organization: just me
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 19:18:04 GMT
Followup-To: sci.skeptic

In article <t7bn+rj.payner@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.174057.23999@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
>>In article <=7!n#8-.payner@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
<stuff left out>
>>
>>I gather then that you have never been beaten up for being an "egghead" or
>>a "bookworm".  I have, but I guess I may have deserved it, huh?  Thanks.
>
>Don't thank me, you just put yourself in that category. I am tall enough
>and aggressive enough that I have not had these problems. In fact, after
>the attempt to 'initiate' me in high school with lipstick, they left me
>alone. Somehow they seemed embarrassed wearing all that lipstick. And it
>was a large group, they had me completely off the ground.

Well, actually, others put me in that category.  Whether I wanted to be their
or not.  Makes an impression.
>
>>Whatever else I learned as a kid, it is that someone who is lighter and
>>shorter has no place being obnoxious, so I was very quiet and inoffensive.
>>But who knows, maybe they just *told* me they were beating me up for being
>>different.
>
>Bruce Lee was a bit on the short side, but that did not seem to paint a
>target on his back.

Guess I can't get away with *any* generalizations... :-)  Anyway, didn't Bruce
get into a lot of fights as a teenager?
> 
>>As to the little information, I assume that people do not want a life history
>>to justify one statement.
>
>[...]
>
>>>I assume that the "no place" is a type, and that you meant "a place".
>>>And you assume that all intelligent people have difficulty "adjusting to
>>>life", and that this is MENSA's purpose. I really do not thing that either
>>>your assumption or conclusion are correct.
>>
>>You assume that *none* do, as much as I assume that all do.  In reality, 
>>*some* people have trouble adjusting, and could use a group to find others
>>in the same situation.  I propose that this is one function of MENSA, and 
>>that it is useful.  
>
>OK, I will accept that this is -one- function MENSA fulfills, but not it's sole
>function. BTW, "type" above was a typo, it should have been "typo". 

You really seemed to deny even this, but of course email is a difficult medium
to interpret.  This is really what I was getting out, under the emotional
baggage.
>
>>                      I do *not* subscribe to either of the assumptions or
>>conclusions you misrepresent above.  
>
>SInce I clearly stated my opinion as such, you are claiming that I am
>misrepresenting my own opinion. Such silliness deserves a comment such
>as -get a life-, or -get real-. You choose whichever you prefer, or would
>prefentially flame. :^)

Actually, I thought you misrepresented *my* position, and said that.
I just didn't like the way it changed what I said.  "Get real" should do it -
I know a cheap shot when I write one :-).
>
>>                                   And yes, I took your postion to mean
>>that you have no sympathy for people who are the victims of actions based
>>on what other people believe them to be.  
>
>I said "some kids" not "some geniuses". And that was exactly what I meant.
>But I imagine you will stick to your assumption as long as it gives you
>something to argue against. I'd love to be wrong on this.

Not in the least.  I appreciate your seeing the point I made above, and regret
the tone of my response.  I made the latter clear in email; I don't mind stating
it publicly.
>
>>                                              Look at the reaction to this
>>thread - there are definite stereotypes about "high-IQ" people.
>>
>>So...Perhaps MENSA is not just an organization of self-centered, arrogant
>>dweebs.  Perhaps *some* of the people involved find it useful to meet others
>>like themselves.  Is that so terrible?
>
>It's incredible that this is a response to my post. You got so much more out
>of it that I never put in. And oddly, none of your reaction is to anything
>close to my views. Is there any link between the ability to communicate
>and intelligence (as measured by the IQ tests)? You tell me.

Like I said, lots of emotional baggage, it can cause some things to appear
more complicated than they are.  Hopefully I have not irretrievably offended
anyone.

As for any link between IQ scores and communicative ability: I haven't spotted
one :-).  But I consider this matter closed, having embarrassed myself quite
enough for one week.  It is amazing what skeletons can fall out of a disused
closet.
>
<sigs elided>
>Rich
>payner@netcom.com  (fighting massive line noise)

	David Pipes
robear@digex.com