HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: g.matas@ee.surrey.ac.uk (George Matas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Request info on Stasny name.
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:54:38 GMT
Organization: University of Surrey, Guildford, England

|> I found that the strangest part of this -ova business is when the
|> Czecho-Slovak papers refer to foreign names this way. For example
|> Mrs. Busch would be referred to as "Pani Buschova". Arrgh!!
|> 
   You haven't seen the strangest part yet! I have a friend in Germany who
told me this story. I young pregnant lady called 'Blahova' immigrated to
Germany. A son was born. The German authorithies, strictly sticking to the
law, decided that the son must have the same name as the mother and he
became Frantisek Blahova.  I don't know how to show the absurdity of the
name to non-Czech/Slovak speakers, but the first name is male while the
surname must be female. 



   George (Jirka) Matas
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut)
Subject: Re: Czech Fruit Dumblings (was: Maybe this will be a FAQ)
Followup-To: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Summary: The flour to use
Organization: Rocking Pig Enterprises
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:54:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.144645.16706@cas.org> jac54@cas.org (We are all individuals) writes:

>...and I wonder if someone could help me by providing the recipe for
>Czech fruit dumplings. In particular here in the United States,
>which flour is the most appropriate to use. When living in
>Australia, I used "Continental Flour" but when I asked for this in
>some stores here in San Diego, I was met with blank stares.
>
>Pomoc!

I have it on 'good authority' that the flour to use is 'Wondra' flour,
which is a coarse but not-too-coarse grind.  It is available with a
little hunting here in California, or at least in the extended Bay
Area (in fact I've noticed it as far as Placerville).  I don't have
that yummy recipie for fruit dumplings right by me, but I'll post it
within the next week or so... howzat?

--
 /'''     Kyle Wohlmut -- Rocking Pig Enterprises
 c-OO     'Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither
    \      ten days, nor twenty days; but even a whole month, until it
   -       come out at your nostrils...' (Numbers 11:19-20)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: synek@Cadence.COM (Kamil Synek)
Subject: Re: Cesi,  kde jste kdo?
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 22:53:20 GMT

In article <76340001@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM> georgem@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (George Mansfeld) writes:
>	Ahoj Cesi,
>
>Myslim, ze bychom meli psat taky chvili Cesky.
>
>Rika se ze Cecha najdes vsude.
>Ozvete se, kde jste kdo.
>
>Jirka

Ahoj,
To je pravda.  Ja bydlim v Bay Area (Santa Cruz).  V Californiy jsem od
'69 a to je 23 let.  Moji rodice jsou z Moravy (u Ulomouce) ale ja jsem
vyrustal na Slovensku, v Kosicich, a pak v Californiy.  Cesky jsem uz
nepsal hodne let tak prominte moje chyby.

Kamil Synek
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: ec332sbd@steam.uwaterloo.ca (David Malecki)
Subject: Re: women's last name endings
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:35:02 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.171447.12345@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> tmm@po.CWRU.Edu (Todd M. Michney) writes:
>
>I think I understand the concept, but would appreciate it if someone would
>verify or correct my as I attempt to render my mother's/sister's/grandma's etc
>version of our last name ...
>
>Our last name is Michney, originally Michny ...
>would the feminine version be Michnikova?
>
>Also, I was under the impression that different Slavic languages use slightly
>different endings to render last names feminine (all end in -a) -- for
>instance, I believe Polish uses -ska for -sky.  Can anyone contribute to or
>refute my hunch?

In Polish, we use -ski for masculine names and -ska for feminine ones.
Other variations are -cki and -cka (such as my own).

Interesting group.  I'll be reading it for a while.

Dave Malecki
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Czech Fruit Dumblings (was: Maybe this will be a FAQ)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:19:30 GMT

>       P.S. a useful cookery book would be welcome.
>
Sorry but our poster is broken..if you could, please post this for me.

My husband was born and raised in Czech. He moved (escaped) to the US about
12 years ago.  We have a lot of contact with his home land because most
of his family is still there. I have several cookbooks from my
mother-in-law that are of Czech recipes but the books are written in
English.  If there are enough people interested, I can have some sent to
me and then mail them out to interested people.  In the mean time I will
search for Czech cookbooks already in the US.
--
 --Deborah Kubicek
    kubicek@agps.lanl.gov (505) 667-8495
       Los Alamos National Laboratory
	  Los Alamos, NM 87544


	Sorry about the delay in getting this out.  I was reduced to
	reading our Unix manual and then ignoring it.

	Alec.
From: g89w5153@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR RR WERTLEN)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Kdo som ja ?
Keywords: Slovak
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:18:44 GMT
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

Hi,

Name: Ronald Wertlen
Born: Johannesburg, 4th January 1971
Parents both Slovaks (as they insist on being called - ie. NOT 
Czechoslovaks), paternal - Bratislava, maternal - Trencin.

I would like to know if it is good or bad that the Czechoslovak republic is 
being split. As I understand it, the Czechs have been very dominating in the 
fields of politics and business, esp. I recall some trade congress a couple 
of years back, where some 90 delegatwes represented CS, and of whom only 4 
were Slovak ( the rest being Czech or Moravian). Further almost all industry 
is situated in the Czech part. There is an article in TIME about this. One 
of the figures I can recall is Foreign Aid (Czech $550m, Slovak $150m).

I welcome any further information, as I have no doubt that the situation is 
far more complex than I understand.

Ciao
  Ron
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: stepan@natinst.com (Stepan Riha)
Subject: Re: women's last name endings
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:12:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.171447.12345@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> tmm@po.CWRU.Edu (Todd M. Michney) writes:
>
>I think I understand the concept, but would appreciate it if someone would
>verify or correct my as I attempt to render my mother's/sister's/grandma's etc
>version of our last name ...
>
>Also, I was under the impression that different Slavic languages use slightly
>different endings to render last names feminine (all end in -a) -- for
>instance, I believe Polish uses -ska for -sky.  Can anyone contribute to or
>refute my hunch?

The ending of the female name depends (in czech) on the ending of the male name
(or vice versa :-).
Names ending in a consonant usually add the ova' as in Nova'k, Nova'kova',
  sometimes the ending of the name gets changed too as in Vi'tek, Vi'tkova.
Names ending in a y' usually replace it with an a' as in Novy', Nova'.
Names ending in other wovels usually replace the wovel with an ova' as in
  R^i'ha, R^i'hova'.

So, according to that Michny' would yield Michna'.  I'm sure that there are
other rules and exceptions but those above seem to fit the names I can think
of.

Stepan
-- 
   Stepan Riha -- stepan@natinst.com

Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: hybl@umbc4.umbc.edu (Dr. Albert Hybl (UMAB-BIOPHYS))
Subject:  Czech cookbooks (was: Czech Fruit Dumblings)
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:18:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.121930.3219@cas.org> jac54@cas.org () writes:
>>       P.S. a useful cookery book would be welcome.

Czech Language:
(1) Marie Rosicka (1902) "Domaci Kucharka: Ceska-Americka,"
Tiskem A Nakladem Narodni Tiskarny, Omaha, Nebraska.
(2) Marie L. Jandackova (1954) "Ceska Narodni Kucharka,"
Geringer Press, Inc., Publishers & Printers

English Language:
(1) Joza Brizova & Maryna Klimentova (1986) "Czech Cuisine,"
AVICEMUM. Czechoslovak Medical Press, Prague, 1986.
Obtained from: Czech Cottage, 100 16th Avenue S.W.
Cedar Rapids, IA 52404
(2) "Cherished Czech Recipes," collected by Pat Martin,
ISBN 0-941016-46-3 (1988).
Penfield Press, 215 Brown Street, Iowa City, IA 52240-1358.
(3) "The Czech Book: Recipes and Traditions," and "Czechoslovak
Wit and Wisdom" are also available from Penfield Press.

Regards,
Albert Hybl (hybl\@umbc3.umbc.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: stepan@natinst.com (Stepan Riha)
Subject: Re: Who am I?
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:08:24 GMT

In article <3621@randvax.rand.org> pboren@rand.org (Pat Boren) writes:

  Pat talks about the term "Ahoj" and her general experiences in Slovakia.

>about the differences between Czechs and Slovaks.  Czechs historically
>grew up under German rule, whereas Slovaks grew up under Hungarian
>rule.  This leads to a difference in 'attitude' about life.

Actually, Czechs were more influenzed by the Austrians (as in Austria-Hungary)
then by the Germans.

I'm orginally from Prague and have lived in Switzerland for 7 yrs. and now in
Texas for 6yrs.  I have met quite a few people in Texas whose ancestors
immigrated early this century or even longer ago from Czechoslovakia (or
whatever htat area was called then).
The czech culture that is around in Texas is somehow detached from what's
happening in Czechoslovakia.  Some of the newsletters deal mostly with local
stuff and the people that I have spoken with in Czech used terms and
expressions that seemed quite outdated to me.
People here have their Czech heritage centers, dance halls (SPJST), etc.,
but they aren't *really* aware of what's happening in Czechoslovakia.  They
hear about the changes, sympathized with the struggle but they can't quite
feel what 1968 or the Velvet Revolution was like.
Personally, I missed them both, I wasn't yet around in '68 and left CSFR
by '79, but I remember what living there was like and what I heard from my
parents and relatives.
I guess, what I'm trying to say is, if you are really interested in what
the issues in Czecho-Slovakia are about it helps to talk to the people there
rather than to the czech or slovak old-timers over here.
It would be great for this group to have more input from people in CSFR.
I know that at least some universities are hooked up to bitnet (csearn); I
don't know, though, if they get the News.

Stepan

BTW, I don't know what the Czech and Slovak "population" is like in other
parts of the US.  Maybe there are more recent immigrants around in the
Nort East?  I know that in Switzerland, Germany and Austria, almost all the
people I knew arrived during or after 1968.

-- 
   Stepan Riha -- stepan@natinst.com
From: nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Request info on Stasny name.
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:57:58 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Jul21.162033.6073@natinst.com> stepan@natinst.com (Stepan Riha) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.135625.18553@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci) writes:
>>Are you sure it isn't S^tastny ??
>
>Or rather S^t^astny' with a soft 's' and a soft 't'.
>I guess in Nancy's case it would be S^t^astna'.

No, it would NOT, thank you very much.  I would no more use
that rediculous ending on S^tastny then I would have used
it on my birth name, Brodsky.

That a' and ova thing is absurd, in my opinion. Why use a different
ending on a woman's last name?  Why is it so importnat to know a
person's gender?  Who'd want to be listed that way in a phone book,
espeically if you are a female living alone?

I hope with the revolution comes the ending of that abomination.

-Nance

-- 
Nance Colucci  *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*  | Discussions welcomed. 
att!ihlpk!colucci                               | Trollers discouraged.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: RZSJS@ibm.rz.tu-clausthal.de
Subject: Re: Request info on Stasny name.
Organization: Rechenzentrum der TU CLAUSTHAL
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:37:18 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.195912.10637@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
tmm@po.CWRU.Edu (Todd M. Michney) writes:
>In a previous article, nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci) says:
>>>I would like to know more about the name Stasny (meaning "happy").  A
>>>Bunch of diacriticals belong over letters, it pronounces close to
>>>"Chesney" with a soft 's'.
>>
>>Are you sure it isn't S^tastny ??
>
>Or even S^t^astny (Slovak word for happy)?
 
\v{s}t\kern-0.125em`astn\'{y}= happy, lucky
In both languages (slovak&czech) identically written and pronunciated(try it).
v
Sarman
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: amt@linus.mitre.org (Anne Tallant)
Subject: Another Name Request
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:33:53 GMT


I am looking for any information on the Zavadil family.  I`ve been
unable to find any other Zavadil's in the US, other than immediate
family.  All I know of my family is that my grandparents came from
Bohemia or Slovakia around the turn of the century.  I also have
dim memories of speaking Czech with my great aunt when I was 7 or 8.

All help appreciated.

Anne (Zavadil) Tallant
amt@linus.mitre.org
--


Anne Tallant
MITRE Corporation

ARPA:  amt@linus.mitre.org
UUCP:  ...{att,decvax,genrad,ll-xn,philabs,utzoo}!linus!amt
From: @ee.surrey.ac.uk (null)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Who am I?
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:56:59 GMT
Organization: University of Surrey, Guildford, England

|> My family (Slovak) left the area while it was still Austria-Hungary. I never
|> heard the term "Czech" used at home; there were Slovaks and there were Bohemians.
|> Maybe the use of "Czech" is an artifact of the creation of Czechoslovakia.
|> Even people like Dubcek are often referred to as "Czech" when they are ethnically
|> Slovak.
|> 
   You probably didn't speak Slovak at home. The Slovak (as well Czech)
 word for "Czech" or "Bohemian" is "Czech".  The fact that "Bohemia" and
"Bohemian" is no more used in English to refer to "the nation inhabiting
the western part of (former) Czechoslovakia" has nothing to do with what
Czechs want or feel but with the evolution of English language.
   "Czech" is not an artifact of the creation of Czechoslovakia. It just
the Slavic (Czech, Slovak, Polish, Russian) name (more than 1000 years
old). Bohemia is of latin
origin. It's also close to the German Bohmen (bringing memories of the
WWII protectorate <end hence not liked by some>).
   The Dubcek case is a different problem. Dubcek used to be the chairman
of the communist party of Czechoslovakia and therefore an unofficial head
of Czechoslovakia. Here Czech is an abbreviation of Czechoslovakian. I agree
that this abbreviation might annoy Slovaks but I guess most of those
coining and using the abbreviation didn't know that Czechoslovakian is
actually built of two words.

     George (Jirka) Matas
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Project on national conflict
From: Shinjinee Sen <SSEN@auvm.american.edu>
Date: Thursday, 23 Jul 1992 20:31:15 EDT
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center

I am a graduate student at the School of International Service, the American
University (Washington DC), working on a project on national conflict.  My test
case for a theory I am examining is Czecho-slovakia. I have an extensive biblio
graphy, but would love to get current information (as the newspapers seem to
report news only when something like elections or a President's resignation
happens).  I would especially appreciate input from scholars in Czecho-slovakia
I don't know either Czech or Slovak, but do know Russian.  Please reply to my
e-mail address. I will reply after Tuesday July 28 (with a summary of pertinent
information for those interested).

Thanking you
Shinjinee Sen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: RZSJS@ibm.rz.tu-clausthal.de
Subject: Re: Female name endings (was Re: Request info on Stasny name.)
Organization: Rechenzentrum der TU CLAUSTHAL
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:22:02 GMT

In article <Brt7Kq.Fov@andy.bgsu.edu>
jrehace@andy.bgsu.edu (jan rehacek) writes:
 
>
>In article <1992Jul22.204803.28621@natinst.com> stepan@natinst.com (Stepan Riha) writes:
>>The previous was a discussion of what the -ova ending is about in female last
>>names.
>>of this adjectiv, i.e. S^t^astna' or Zelena'.  The same is true for names the
>>derive from nouns, i.e. for the name Jahoda (strawberry), the female form is
>>Jahodova' (as in strawberry juice) rather then Jahodova (as in the strowberry's
>>juice). ...
>>
> As for Mrs. Bush (pani Bushova),that really is a shame on us,since we should
>respect the original name.(We would not be glad hearing about John Hus ...
 
What about the small difference:
pan'i Jahodov'a pov'idala x Jahodov'a pov'idala
pani Jahodov'a hovorila   x Jahodov'a hovorila
Mrs. Strawberry has said  x Strawberry has said (?)
And what about the poor Mr.(he) Strawberry(she) in:
Pan Jahoda, P'an Jahoda, Herr Erdbeere, il signore Fragola, M. Framboise, ...
(jahoda=jahoda=die Erdbeere,la fragola, la framboise,...).
A strawberry, how can you eat it(?)? Are we canibals, if we eat her?
v
Sarman, Clausthal(D)
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: stefanis@ecst.csuchico.edu (Lab Boy)
Subject: Re: Czech Fruit Dumblings (was: Maybe this will be a FAQ)
Organization: California State University, Chico
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:01:35 GMT

There is a book called The Art of Polish Cooking. With a bit of
modification, you can get very close to the kind of food you are looking
for. Mrs. T's also makes frozen Pirogies that aren't too bad.
______   
|\   |\      Nick Stefanisko (stefanis@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu) 
| |--+-| 
|-+---\|     "Oodal-lada oodal-lada" 
 \|____|                            --Thomas Dolby
From: kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Krzysztof W. Kniaz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Request info on Stasny name.
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:41:22 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Jul22.135758.27089@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci) writes:

>
>That a' and ova thing is absurd, in my opinion. Why use a different
>ending on a woman's last name?  Why is it so importnat to know a
>person's gender?  Who'd want to be listed that way in a phone book,
>espeically if you are a female living alone?
>
>I hope with the revolution comes the ending of that abomination.
>
>-Nance

Dear Nance,
It a historic tradition for the Slavic languages , that woman's name is
written differently from man's. This tradition traces back to 8th. 9th
century and has obviously nothing to do with commies or especially
with any form of harassment or discrimination. It can be understood in
a broader context: namely gender plays more important role in grammar
of slavic languages and "female" nouns have usually an "a" ending.

Chris


--

Krzysztof Kniaz, University of Pennsylvania | If you can't learn  
Lab for Research on the Structure of Matter | to do it well,
Philadelphia, PA, 19104, USA                | learn to enjoy doing it badly.
From: kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Krzysztof W. Kniaz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Female name endings (was Re: Request info on Stasny name.)
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:19:52 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


Almost same rules apply to the polish language. BTW I remember funny story
about my family. My father comes from the small village in south-eastern
part of Poland very close (10 miles) to the ukrainian border. Poles and
Ukrainians (I bet Slovaks too) share many common and sometimes funny
expressions. For example they call married women, their husbands first names
in the female form i.e. my fathers name is Lucjan, so my mather would be
called Lucja-NOVA as if she was a "property of my father"! My mother comes
from "the city folks" and name LUCJANOVA was driving her nuts!

Chris
--

Krzysztof Kniaz, University of Pennsylvania | If you can't learn  
Lab for Research on the Structure of Matter | to do it well,
Philadelphia, PA, 19104, USA                | learn to enjoy doing it badly.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: peter@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (peter.pavlovcik)
Subject: Re: Request info on Stasny name.
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:39:55 GMT

In article <84075@netnews.upenn.edu> kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Krzysztof W. Kniaz) writes:
>
>Dear Nance,
>It a historic tradition for the Slavic languages , that woman's name is
>written differently from man's. This tradition traces back to 8th. 9th
>century and has obviously nothing to do with commies or especially
>with any form of harassment or discrimination. It can be understood in
>a broader context: namely gender plays more important role in grammar
>of slavic languages and "female" nouns have usually an "a" ending.
>
>Chris

On the other hand, the usual meaning of the "-ova" suffix for
nouns is "belonging to" or "belogs to". For example "Jan's book"
would translate as "Janova kniha". Therefore my mother's last name
"Pavlovcikova" could be interpreted (not that it really is) as "belonging
to Pavlovcik" (my father's name). I'm just trying to point out where
this "-ova" most likely came from.

I found that the strangest part of this -ova business is when the
Czecho-Slovak papers refer to foreign names this way. For example
Mrs. Busch would be referred to as "Pani Buschova". Arrgh!!

			Peter Pavlovcik, peter@iexist.att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: "VICKIE STARBUCK" <TS0058@ohstmvsa.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Czech Fruit Dumplings
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:44:00 GMT

When I was small we used to make these farina dumplings
with peaches.  My mother insisted that you cover then
with dry cottage cheese, a little hard to find depending
where you are, and cinnamon sugar and melted butter.  We
ate these for dinner.

I was happy to visit Prague in March, where I stayed with
a woman, Beatrice.  We became good friends partly because
we both love to play the recorder and it is always a joy
to meet someone who shares this.  One recorder can sound
kind of lonely, one recorder player can sound kind of self-consious,
etc.  Anyway, one evening we made strawberry dumplings in her
little kitchen.  The dough was not the farina one, but had
some cheese in it.  Not a lot, but something like cream cheese
I think.  She insisted we eat these with melted butter, sugar
and powdered cocao.  This was also dinner, and it was wonderful.

So let me add my familly names to the Czech/Slovak question.
On my mothers side I am "Czech" or sometimes my mother would
refer to Bohemian.  She is first generation.  Most of my
"czech" relatives live in Chicago.  They arrived here just
at the turn of the century.  The family names are Stejskal
and Kral.  I also do not know just how intact these are
since arrival here, although I believe that Stejskal could
not have been changed to much :-).  Can anyone tell me if
either of these names is particular to some ethnic group
ie. Czech, Slovak, etc.  I grew up in Eastern Washington
State, where there are some people of Czech heritage, but
it is certainly different from what my mother would talk
about in Cicero and Berwyn.

Any information or comments would be appreciated.

Thanks, Vickie Starbuck

Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak