HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chill@walt.UUCP (Curtis Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: UNC Academics/Jucos
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:30:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: walt.9207231530.AA02832



Andrew had a couple of minor errors in his UNC Prop 48/weak student post.


First, Larry Davis (Larry Smith was a walk-on last year; I confuse them, too)
made a 690 on his SAT's last year on his first try.  The Carolina staff 
encouraged him to go to prep school to work on his academics.  Of course,
while he was there, he worked on his ball handling and shooting skills.

Second, Dean will only take one recruit per year who could be an academic
problem.  This is so that the staff can concentrate on him and make sure
he does well.  Over the last few years, those cases have been few and
far between.  Lynch and Reese and the most recent.  Both needed extra
tutoring to get by their SATs.  This self-imposed restriction by Dean has
more of an effect on recruiting than anything else.  About 4 years ago,
UNC was recruiting Billy Owens, Alonzo Mourning, and Kenny Williams.  Once
Kenny committed, Dean backed off the other two, one reason being that they
were not strong academically.  Dean got burned when Kenny DIDN'T GRADUATE
from high school.  I believe he had his SAT's.  Not graduating.  Ugh.


As far as I know, JR Reid was never an academic problem.  Dean did make
the comment about JR and Scott Williams' SATs being higher than Laettner's
and Ferry's.  I think we know who the weak student was of the four...:)



Curtis
star3!walt!chill@mcnc.org



Bob McAdoo.  You've got to ask more challenging questions.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: wung@eecom.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Prop 48...
Reply-To: wung@eecom.gatech.edu
Organization: School of EE, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:08:23 GMT

In article 4475@msc.cornell.edu, hillyard@msc.cornell.edu () writes:
>From article <1992Jul28.185610.3657@ee.gatech.edu>, by wung@eecom.gatech.edu (Peter Wung):
>> 
>> By what I understand, the admissions process is not quite that simple.  A friend 
>> of mine who used to work in the admissions office at a major university tells me
>> that a number of things are used to determine acceptance.  Standardized tests are 
>> used, but they have found that these tests can only be used to predict the the first semester GPA.  A very complex statistical package was used, and by what my friend 
>> said, the best indicator is the high school attended.  The way they work it is to 
>
>Do you know how successful colleges are in general with their admissions?
>Do the top admits (by whatever standard is used) actually do a lot better
>than those near the cut off?  My impression (since athletes and those admitted
>under affirmative action tend to do less well. what about legacies?) is that 
>they are reasonably successful, but I'm not very knowledgable on the subject.
>
>SEH


Well, I am not real familiar with all the top colleges.  I do know that Georgia Tech
is reasonably stringent, but the flush rate for freshman is disturbingly close
to 50%.  I believe that is the rate taken four years after the students are admitted,
so this is not the flush rate for the first year.  Tech athletes do a little better
because of the help system set up by the AA.  Minorities suffer higher than average rates, but those numbers are iffy because they don't separate regular minority admissions and affirmative action admissions.  I don't believe they track legacies.


---
****************************************************************************
*Peter Wung				Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory		Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering		    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology				    	   *        *Atlanta, Georgia							   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...						   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy.  		   *
*									   *
****************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college,rec.sport.football.college
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Calling all Hoosiers (possible mailing list)
Originator: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:05:46 GMT


   I know there are quite a few Indiana alumni and/or fans out on the net.
Occasionally I get e-mail from some of you, asking me to let you know of
any IU news.  Would anyone be interested in a mailing list for IU fans?  I
think I could probably get one set up here.  I can't guarantee much volume
on such a list, but it would be good for those who don't want to bother the
net with really IU-specific stuff, or who want such stuff easier to find.
If interested, drop me a note.  If there's enough interest I'll see what I
can do.

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University Hoosiers
1991 Copper Bowl champions
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Underhanded Freethrows (was Georgia Tech)
Reply-To: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:27:05 GMT


In article 5354@cbnewsh.cb.att.com, jfw1@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (james.f.whitehead) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.153518.8018@CS.ORST.EDU>, rpandey@CS.ORST.EDU (Rajeev Pandey) writes:
>> In Article 16196 of rec.sport.basketball.college:
>> trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH) writes:
>> 
>> >Drew Barry	6-4		Frosh.	Off Guard	Could contribute
>> 
>> >off guard.  Drew Barry, Jon's brother, is ready to get some minutes after
>> >he redshirted last year.  He's a better athlete than Jon, though not a better
>> >player, at least right now.   He's also the only Barry son that shoots 
>> >free throws underhanded like their dad did.
>> 
>>  Incorrect.
>> 
>>  Brent Barry, probably a starting guard this year at Oregon State, also
>>  shoots his free throws underhanded. Brent is a 6'5" sophmore, and has the
>>  talents to make a name for himself down the road.
>
>OK. So far we have Scooter (Kansas), Jon and Drew (GT), and Brent (Oregon St.)
>How many more little Barry stinkers are we gonna have to put up with?
>Sounds like ol' Rick was accurate with more than just the basketball.
>
>Jim Whitehead
>"pc - NOT!"
>
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Department of Computer Science    | Rajeev Pandey 
>> Dearborn Hall 303                 |    Internet: rpandey@cs.orst.edu 
>> Oregon State University           |    UUCP: hp-pcd!orstcs!rpandey
>> Corvallis, OR  97331-3202  U.S.A. |    Phone:(503) 737-3273 Fax: (503) 737-3014


Well, he only needs 5 to get a full complement for a hoops team, think about poor Steve
Garvey, he's trying to start a whole baseball team!

Pete Wung
wung@ee.gatech.edu
From: milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Go Tennessee Vols beat Bama
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:14:25 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <15547@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> iftekhar@elm.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Iftekhar Hussain) writes:
>Hi,
>
>Can any  football guru tell me what is in store for Tennessee Vols this
>season? Thank you
>
>-Ifty

Yes, an early season loss to Georgia at Sanford Stadium in September.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: snuffy@netmbx.netmbx.de (R.J. Bartle)
Subject: Re: Origin of Hoya Nickname
Organization: netmbx, Berlin, Germany
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 09:41:19 GMT

milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman) writes:

>In article <14kjk0INNej1@agate.berkeley.edu> elrod@ocf.berkeley.edu (Edward L. Rodriguez) writes:
>>What is the origin of Georgetown's nickname, the Hoyas?
>>
>>Apologies if this has come up before.  I'm new to this group.
>>Thanks in advance,
>>-Ed

>There's no saying where "Hoya" came from, but does that bulldog logo look 
>familiar, especially with the little "G" on his hat. If not let me refer you
>to the logo of the Georgia Bulldogs!!


>					      Rick Milleman
>					      UGA - 1992 SEC Football Champs!!
My Polish ex wife informs me that the Word Hoya has a meaning in
Polish(vulg..) which could be applied to men but not womwn! (..if u see what
she's politely saying!)


-- 
******************************************************************************
* Ron J. Bartle,                                                             *
* Onckenstr. 19.,       (Incoming Tourist Services-Bln.)                     *
* D-W-1000 Berlin 44.   - snuffy@netmbx.de  or snuffy@zelator.in-berlin.de   *
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: delaw@eos.ncsu.edu (DOUGLAS EDWARD LAW )
Subject: Re: Prop 48...
Keywords: Flag, country, ashokan fiddle music, etc.
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:05:27 GMT


   There are many of you who think Prop 48 should be scrapped. I have a few questions for you:


 1. Should there be a national standardized test to measure the abilities of high school graduates who plan to attend college? If not, then does an admissions board for a college accept everyone based on their GPA , class rank, and curriculum? I mean, should an Ivy league school accept the 5th ranked senior from a prestigious private school over the top ranked senior from a rural public school (assuming both take the same high school courses)?  

2. Assume Prop 48 is canned. How do you insure against schools turning into football/basketball factories?  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: navarrer@bionette.CGRB.ORST.EDU (Roy Navarre)
Subject: Re: A Look Ahead at the ACC: Georgia Tech
Organization: Biological Computing Consortium, OSU, Corvallis, OR.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:44:00 GMT

*BOW*

Actually, I havent been gone. Things have been somewhat boring on this rec and
not worthy of my multifarious wit. I'm glad you are glad to see me Brian
and T-bone :)   Perhaps I will bless you with my insights.

Newsbulletin: My dollars say Shaq yes, Laettner no.
The question: Which rookie will make the all star team this year.

Like dudes I couldnt post an article without mentioning Shaq could I?

By the way Manley Stanley has signed with Dallas.

GEAUX TIGERS!

ps any LSU recruting news out there? If so bless you bless you

Pinhead
From: baker2668@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Illinois Prairie St. Games- collegiate
Date: 22 Jul 92 12:12:49 -0500
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <BrsqM1.AKJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jwag9429@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John Wilbur Althauser) writes:
> 
> Iowa's  James Winter did not show.

Does anyone know the reason for James not showing up?  Is his back still
hurting him?


BB

> .
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day)
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Reply-To: oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day)
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:33:34 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.131633.1054@rti.rti.org> wgr@rti.rti.org writes:
> You're paying way too much attention to SAT scores.  Plenty of people who
> make marginal scores on standardized tests make excellent high school
> grades, and go on to do very well in college.
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, Rumeal Robinson had to sit out a year because of Prop
> 48, then ended up graduating with a pretty good GPA from Michigan.
> Considering how his NBA career is going, I'm sure he's glad he got his
> degree.

Gene Banks was a similar character at Duke, though long before
Prop 48 - his grades were marginal and SAT's virtually off the
scale (not on the high end, either), but he was not stupid - he
came to Duke, applied himself to his classwork, and did quite well.

Orin

--
*********** "The NeXT is dead!  Long live the NeXT!" *************
Orin Day, Code 664.1                    oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov
Hughes STX/NASA       GSFC Laboratory for High Energy Astrophysics
******* Think that this is NASA's opinion?  NO, NO, NO!!!" *******
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: foerster@zman.rtp.dg.com (Mike Von Foerster)
Subject:  Big 11 Recruits - 1992
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 12:41:50 GMT
Reply-To: foerster@dg-rtp.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC

This is how the Big Ten recruits shape up for this year. This ranking
was produced by FutureStars Magazine. Included in this list are 
returning red-shirts and Prop 48 casualties, however, they do not
impact the rankings. 

I only know of one change to the rankings. Steve Hart was
listed as going to IU but he is headed to prep school this
fall instead. 

1. Ohio State         Gerald Eaker      6'11"  Westchester, IL
                      Nate Wilbourne    6'10"  Columbus, OH
                      Charles Macon     6'7"   Michigan City, IN 
                      Derek Anderson    6'5"   Louisville, KY
                      Grep Simpson      6'2"   Lima, OH

2. Michigan State     Steve Polonowski  6'9"   Rockford, MI
                      Jamie Feick       6'8"   Lexington, OH
                      Quinton Brooks    6'7"   Akron, OH
                      David Hart        6'5"   Battle Creek, MI

3. Iowa               Kenyon Murray     6'5"   Battle Creek, MI
                      Fred Brown        6'2"   Mercer Island, WA
                      Monter Glasper    6'1"   Albion, MI
                      Russ Millard      6'8"   REDSHIRT

4. Minnesota          Trevor Wilson     7'0"   Slayton, MN
                      David Washington  6'10"  Hutchinson  JC, KS
                      Kevin Baker       6'6"   Toledo, OH

5. Illinois           Chris Gandy       6'8"   Bradley, IL
                      Richard Keene     6'5"   Collinsville, IL
                      Andy Kaufmann     6'7"   REDSHIRT

6. Purdue             Justin Jennings   6'6"   Grand Rapids, MI
                      Porter Roberts    6'3"   Chattanooga, TN
                      Scott Colonna     6'1"   Staten Island, NY
                      Glenn Robinson    6'9"   PROP 48

7. Indiana            Malcolm Sims      6'3"   Shaker Heights, OH
                      Pat Graham        6'5"   MEDICAL REDSHIRT
                      Brian Evans       6'7"   REDSHIRT

8. Michigan           Leon Derricks     6'10"  Flint, MI
                      Dugan Fife        6'3"   Clarkston, MI

9. Penn State         Rashaan Parker    6'6"   Harrisburg, PA
                      Wade Parsons      6'0"   Crossville, TN

10.Wisconsin          Gregg Timmerman   6'10"  Cuba City, WI
                      Otto McDuffie     6'5"   Milwaukee, WI

11.Northwestern       Bret Yonke        6'8"   Burnsville, MN


-- 

Michael von Foerster           Internet: foerster@dg-rtp.dg.com
DG/UX Core Development         UUCP:     {world}!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!foerster
Data General Corporation
62 T.W. Alexander Drive
RTP, NC. 27709                 Phone:    919-248-6327
From: crs@milton.u.washington.edu (Cliff Slaughterbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: A Look Ahead at the ACC: Georgia Tech
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:58:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul23.165837.23316
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

navarrer@bionette.CGRB.ORST.EDU (Roy Navarre) writes:

>...............

What brilliant insightful analysis!  You poor fools who thought Roy was
a stool pigeon have got it all wrong.  In fact, he only made one misktake
in his post--he should have taken the "Georgia Tech" part out of the
title in order to make this a comment about the whole damned ACC.

[You decide...am I sassing Roy?  or the ACC megaposters? ]

****************************************************************************
Cliff Slaughterbeck           * 
Dept. of Physics, FM-15       *   Truth is a statue, and you are all just 
University of Washington      *   a bunch of pigeons. 
Seattle, WA 98195             *
****************************************************************************
From: dxj@cci632.cci.com (Dennis Joyce)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Prop 48...
Keywords: Flag, country, ashokan fiddle music, etc. redundancy, repetition
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:41:18 GMT
Organization: [Computer Consoles, Inc., Rochester, NY

In article <1992Jul28.143906.19806@ms.uky.edu> fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis) writes:
>DOUGLAS EDWARD LAW writes:
>>
>>2. Assume Prop 48 is canned. How do you insure against schools turning into 
>>football/basketball factories?  

I would support Prop 48 it they weren't taking away a year of eligibilty from 
the student. The principle is sound. If the student is below the standard
then they should sit out a year and concentrate on his school work. This
is not to punish the student athlete but rather to help help him. 

I also believe that all student/athletes should be redshirted. This would take
a great deal of pressure off them and let them get used to college life right
away. They would still be allowed to practice but they wouldn't get swamped
with the pressures of big time college athletics until they are settled inTO
college life.

Comments?
		

					Dennis Joyce 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis)
Subject: Re: Prop 48...
Keywords: Flag, country, ashokan fiddle music, etc. redundancy, repetition
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:39:06 GMT
Organization: Loose Affiliation of Millionaires and Billionaires and Baby

DOUGLAS EDWARD LAW writes:
>
>2. Assume Prop 48 is canned. How do you insure against schools turning into 
>football/basketball factories?  

So, since the schools can't be trusted, the student should be punished?
There are admissions policies at every school. Every school, apparently,
has a profile of the kind of kid it wants to educate and programs in
place to attract these kinds of kids. Why not substitute for Prop 48
a rule which would prohibit a school from accepting a kid from outside
its "target" base. If it has programs in place to educate "high risk"
students who aren't athletes, fine. It would be permitted to accept
high risk students who were athletes. It would be up to the NCAA member
institution to show compliance under some arbitrary cut-off point. A  
school wouldn't be able to fill ALL of its "high risk" slots with athletes.
The program would have to monitor and encourage ALL of the students
in the program.  It isn't too hard to imagine a set of constraints
that would promote some kind of fairness. As an added attraction,
it would Share the Wealth: non-athletes from bum educational backgrounds
could conceivably coat-tail their way into schools.

Let's take, for example, Georgetown and Patrick Ewing. Did Georgetown
have a program in place to encourage non-7' high risk kids. Or did
it create a program solely for Ewing's benefit. Under a plan like
I would envision, the burden would be upon the school to demonstrate
that simple exploitation wasn't on their minds. Some schools -- someone
mentioned Idaho -- accept all high school graduates from their
state. Fine and dandy. Under my "plan" the school would be able to 
accept any athlete from Idaho high schools who graduated. Idaho
has already accepted its mission to educate all comers. Why should the
NCAA care? I object to Prop 48 because it misplaces the burden.
-- 
Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu> Repeat after me:
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Prop 48...
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:15:31 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Jul24.185846.14062@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>, u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
>I don't buy any of this culturally biased stuff either.  People have advantages
> and disadvantages wherever they come from, but the basic skills needed to
> survive in this country don't change.  

 Yeah - its all just hogwash right? No such thing as cultural bias right Jerray?
Nah.... everyone is the same and all tests are the same.... But I'm sure you
know something that the folks who study testing bias don't know. 

			gln


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Prop 48...
Originator: hillyard@tiger.msc.cornell.edu
Reply-To: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:38:55 GMT

From article <1992Jul28.90856.26106@ms.uky.edu>, by fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis):

> The correlation between big feet and getting the permission to coin 
> money...I mean being a doctor...can be traced to the fact that
> all other things being equal, medical schools admit taller men
> over shorter men. 


> Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu> Older than before.

I've actually heard this before.  Tall men tend to be more successful
in general.  A vaguely remembered stat is that the taller candidate wins
in ~60% of elections, and note that it is working so far this year--Bush and
Clinton were the tallest in their respective primaries.  Prediction:  Clinton 
over Bush, since Clinton is taller (if Perot was taller he'd probably still
be around).

SEH
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis)
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:06:05 GMT
Organization: Loose Affiliation of Millionaires and Billionaires and Baby

Richard Milleman writes:
>
>Maybe it's just me, but isn't UMass a good school?Could anybody who couldn't 
>get a 700 on the SAT actually make it (academically) at a school of UMass's 
>quality or is UMass trying to compete and forget that it is an institution 
>of higher learning? I can understand a SAT/ACT failure to go to Arkansas 
>and pass all of his classes (probably with a 4.0), but I thought higher of 
>UMass, until now.
>
This assumes there's some kind of absolute linkage between SAT scores
and the ability to do college work. There isn't. In fact, there are
just as many bozos who do well on standardized tests (I won't name names,
but I shaved the chin of one of them this morning) who scored aces
on the test and then limped through college. The moaning and groaning
from opponents of Prop 48 come from this lack of correlation.

Plus, where does UMass get the reputation for being some kind of beacon
in the intellectual night? It's a state school like so many others.
Arkansas included. You wouldn't have some kind of grudge against
the good people of Arkansas would you?


-- 
Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu> Older than before.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: sbanerj@eos.ncsu.edu (SANJEEV  BANERJIA)
Subject: Re: Carolina/Academic Hardships
Originator: sbanerj@c00011-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: sbanerj@eos.ncsu.edu (SANJEEV  BANERJIA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 02:53:36 GMT


In article <9207241253.AA25126@walt.disney>, chill@walt.UUCP (Curtis Hill) writes:
|>
|>   *** stuff deleted ***
|>
|>Dean takes great pride in getting students graduated and making sure they're
|>successful after graduation, whether they play basketball or enter the
|>workforce.  He's done an excellent job of that over the years.  (We'll leave
|>Doug Moe out of this discussion, thank you.)
|>
|>
|>I think it's pretty obvious that this is a much better approach to take
|>than some other coaches use (Valvano being the most obvious, but not only,
|>example).
|>
|>
|>The ACC as a whole has changed its rules over the decade to help this matter,
|>too.  Schools have not been able to give Prop 48 players a scholarship for
|>several years.
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>Curtis Hill
|>star3!walt!chill@mcnc.org
|>
|>
|>PS  Chill, you State fans.  Valvano wasn't Satan, but it's pretty obvious
|>he recruited more than a few kids who didn't belong (academically) at State.
|>

I would hope that any knowledgeable, or more appropriately, principled, State
fan would agree with Curtis that Valvano recruited too many academically 
deficient students, esp. considering that *most* of the people he recruited had
academic difficulty.  Thank God that Les Robinson has turned this trend around.
Maybe in a few years, with a little luck, prep prospects can choose NCSU as
a strong b-ball AND academic program, as opposed to the shoddy reputation
it's had over the past decade (barring the past 2 years).

Sanjeev