HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Boycotting the Vote
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 05:17:31 GMT

edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil) writes:

>Does voting represent control?  No, it does not.  As proof of that, look
>at the universal bemoaning of the state of government.  Yet time after
>time, incumbents are sent back to Washington.  The people want change
>and theoretically could almost accomplish this in a single election (two
>more would be needed to finish changing the House), yet it does not
>happen.  In reality, voting does not work.

It works better than not voting.

>Citizens can also take control themselves.  

Yes.  By having people vote for them.  If the people don't vote, the people
can't gain control.  

>how the legislature can spend it.  E.g., force the state to allocate the
>money to towns proportionately to its collection in those towns -- then
>you can control its spending by participating in town meetings.

Go ahead and pursue that agenda.  But bear in mind that an informed 
majority would pursue precisely the opposite: distribution in proportion
to population, not in proportion to generated revenue.
>Also keep in mind the ethics of voting.  A government is not entitled to
>violate your rights, regardless of whether you vote or not.  A refusal
>to vote is a refusal to authorize a representative to act for you -- and
>hence it does not constitute permission for the government to act
>against you.  Some people say that if you don't vote, you don't have a
>right to complain, but that is plainly nonsense -- by not voting, you
>have REFUSED to AUTHORIZE a person to represent you, so you have given
>nobody the authority to do things that are harmful.  You have every
>right to complain when something wrong is done.  So

Sure you have.  You live there.  You abstained, thereby implicitly agreeing
to the will of those who didn't abstain.  You do not have individual right
of authorization, you never did, and you never should.  You have rights 
only as a member of a society, unless you choose to remove yourself from
that society, physically.

-rich



-- 
             Richard H. Schwartz, Scheduling Systems Inc.,
            1000 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA  02138
                  (617) 864 8330; FAX (617) 864 8377
                          rhs@world.std.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: The An-Tai conspiracy game
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 08:10:20 GMT

tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:

How "Tai" may be a Bourbaki-style group, having fun with us.

Yeah - until we come grind their equipment into little meatballs.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Summarizing the boycott (was Re: Boycotting the Vote)
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:57:20 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Oct13.205502.26065@walter.cray.com>, sonic@cray.com (Curtis
L. Swanson) wrote:
> 
> OK, time for a summary.  This is collected from quite a few posts and I've
> tried to keep all of the relavent context in it while editing.
> 
> EP = Eric Postpischil
> GMS = GMS (Gilbert Mark Stewart)
> RS = Richard Schwartz
> MS = Mike Steiner
> MM = Mark Moroney (I hope it's Mark)
> CS = me
> 
> *************************************
> 
> MM>People have already largely stopped voting, any message from this is ignored.
> 
> EP>Ross Perot did not ignore it.
> 
> Ross Perot says he entered the race because the system wasn't working and
> needed to be changed.  I don't read this as "Nobody's voting so I guess I'll
> run for President."
> 
> EP>You are not authorized to speak for those who do not vote; you cannot
> EP>dictate what their message is.
> 
> MS>The message is not what is intended; the message is what is received.  When
> MS>people don't vote, politicians get the message that people don't care.  It
> MS>doesn't matter that those people do not mean to send that message, that is
> MS>the message that is received.
> 
> Agreed.  However, if those who don't vote also don't say why they didn't 
> vote, NO conclusion can be drawn nor should be assumed.

Realistically, that will never happen; politicians will assume apathy
absent evidence to the contrary.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Nazi caterpillars from Venus
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:14:48 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Oct9.184428.9843@iex.uucp>, muchow@venus.iex.com (Don
Muchow) wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> More in the vein of Muchow D About Nothing....

> One gift I believe most of us (should) have in Mensa is an enlightened sense
> of humor and firm self-confidence.  For many of us, making it into Mensa should
> have removed some of those doubts.
> 
> By the way, I'm tired of Smurf logic problems!

If a Smurf and a half could eat a catepillar and a half in an hour and a
half, how many smurfs would it take to eat six catepillars in three hours?

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Boycotting the Vote
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:06:29 GMT
Reply-To: edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Oct12.184038.12632@engage.pko.dec.com>,
moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com writes:

>People have already largely stopped voting, any message from this is ignored.

Ross Perot did not ignore it.

>How can not voting help the Libertarian or any other third- or non-party
>candidate that seeks change from the current political system?

It helps because the non-voting occurs BEFORE the party appears to fill
the demand for it.  AFTER there is a party suitable to the non-voters,
they should vote for it.

>How are people going to do all this without voting?

You run for office in your city or town.  You propose a new law in your
city or town.  You propose a constitutional amendment.  (There is a
state constitutional committee in New Hampshire every ten years.)  You
vote in referenda but not in elections for office where none of the
choices are suitable.  You sue the government when it violates its own
laws.   (AAA is suing New Hampshire for moving highway revenue to the
general fund.)

>This is wrong.  By not voting you give up all authority to select a leader to
>those who do vote and accept the consequences of that act.

That is incorrect.  The people who vote might have the power or ability
to select a leader, but they have no authority to do so on your behalf.

>You have every right to complain of course but you would have to admit that
>you didn't try to do anything about it.

That is incorrect.  Voting is not the only thing there is, so not voting
is not the same as not doing anything.  I listed many alternatives.

> Remember, you don't have to vote
>for those on the ballot, . . .

In Hawaii you do.

>Non-voting is a message that you don't care.

You are not authorized to speak for those who do not vote; you cannot
dictate what their message is.


                                -- edp (Eric Postpischil)
                                "Always mount a scratch monkey."
                                edp@alien.enet.dec.com
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: t// Re: Meaning of Intelligence
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 07:21:29 GMT

phil@miracle.com (Phil Hill) writes:
>I'll see that you lose you access to the net.

What, are you sleeping? Or just being gracious?
A sixty-day reprieve {for the rest of us} would work wonders.
From: jorge@venus.phyast.pitt.edu (Jorge LLambias)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: ASTROLOGY READINGS, come and get it (not a reading yet, sorry Karleen)
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:01:16 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Oct9.093556.12457@tfs.com>, ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> I am curious to see if this teeny thumbnail test shows anything:
|> 
|> Three charts up to be read soon:
|> 
|> Karleen Davis
|> Gisle Hannemyr
|> Steve Marting
|> 
|> Three 'thumbnail', "overall archetypal life-theme impressions":
|> 
|> Born to be a Star -or- Entertainment Tonight  
|> Rebel Without a Horse
|> Trouble in Fairyland
|> 
|> Would these people step forward to claim that 'theme' which they feel BEST
|> represents their feel for their own situation? I'd appreciate it.
|> I will be titling the readings with these headings, so you'll see; or after
|> all three have responded, I will announce the results.


Taking a wild guess I would say

 Karleen Davis - Trouble in Fairyland
 Gisle Hannemyr - Rebel Without a Horse
 Steve Marting - Born to be a Star -or- Entertainment Tonight 

based on the following stereotypes

 Fairyland must be a woman
 
and ( I'm assuming Gisle Hannemyr is the Norwegian you mentioned, and is not a woman )

 Entertainment Tonight sounds more American than Norwegian

Probably wrong ...

JJLL
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: Ad in Air & Space
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:49:18 GMT

akearns@cs.ulowell.edu (Adam Kearns) writes:


>	Hi.  I saw an ad in Air & Space magazine (and I'm sure it's in
>others) from Mensa.  It said "Take This Instant Test To See If You're A Genius."
>and had this problem

>	      0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   =  1

>You're supposed to put in + and - signs in the correct places
>so the expression is true (the sum will equal 1.)  It also states that
>"This problem stups 45% of the Mensa members who try it.  And they all
>have IQs in the top 2% nationwide."  I looked at it, and solved it in 
>less than five minutes.  I was just wondering if 1) they're 
>exaggerating the 45% figure, 2) there is supposed to be a time limit
>on the problem, or 3) this means I'm a genius.  I'm not a member, but
>I was just curious to know what you people thought.  I'll put my answer below
>in case I made a mistake, someone can correct me (although I'm pretty sure
>it's right else I wouldn't post it all over the world).  BTW, I din't think
>you were supposed to start a sentence with 'AND' .  

There are lots of answers. Group the numbers in pairs:

0,1  2,3  4,5  6,7  8,9

The numbers in each pair are different by one, so if you put a "+" in front
of one, and a "-" in front of the other the sum for the pair will be
either +1 or -1. Just set three pairs to be +1, and two to be -1 and the
sum is +1.

I don't believe the 45% number.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: The An-Tai conspiracy game
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:17:49 GMT

bernard@sirius.gte.com (Bernard Silver) writes:
>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>	[A proposal for dealing with Tai]

>Why waste any energy?  These things really don't matter. rec.org.mensa
>is not an important forum.  Do you really think that the reputation
>of NCSU will be damaged in any serious way?  There are stupid postings
>from everywhere (except from GTE of course).
>
>tfs.com has an employee who is serious about astrology?  Wow, they must
>be a bunch of jerks!  And Mike Steiner is a Mensan?  They must all be
>rude, childish, self-important pompous idiots.

Hmm. Be nice, or bash, or flame? - I think I'll be cute.

(1) Unbeknowst to you, "Scott Tai" is a joint creation of G.M.Stewart and
Mike Steiner, and we three were sitting around a table discussing 'peevish'
people - you know, the ones who always say, "why are we wasting time on
trivialities?" - so we devised a game, where "Tai" would misbehave, and I
would haul out a draconian solution, while *otherwise* appearing to be a jerk.
We knew that the apparent discrepancy would call the peeves out of the
woodwork - so I guess we were right.

Got one in the bag, boys, haul 'im up!

No, not really.

(2) This being a REAL situation. Okay, hey: *I* - that's right, *me* -
*I* *am* a jerk, and a rude, childish, self-important pompous idiot (wasn't
'moron' the word you wanted?) --- BUT. I'm smart enough to know this, and
I'm brave enough to say so, to admit it. I'm tired of deleting Tai-mail,
so I've taken a step to suggest a remedy, is all.

(3) Actually, I know you're teasing. (aren't you?)

(4) Astrology works because I say so. Q.E.D.

*stretch*
*yawn*
(stomach gurgles)

Welcome aboard, Bernard.
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Boycotting the Vote
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:44:06 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.132149.24271@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil) writes:
>In article <mike_steiner-131092104040@192.35.50.131>,
>mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>
>>> You are not authorized to speak for those who do not vote; you cannot
>>> dictate what their message is.
>>
>>The message is not what is intended; the message is what is received.
>
>Oh.  So if one person says "No" to sex and another person figures
>they're just playing around, then the message is what is received, and
>it is not rape.
>
>I don't buy it.  The meaning of a message is solely determined by the
>sender.  It is the responsibility of the receiver to correctly interpret

This is wrong.  You mean the "intended meaning".  And it is the responsibility
of the sender to try to meet the expectations of the receiver for
communication to take place.  Responsibility is symmetrical.  Who screwed
up the most in a failed communication may be a subjective decision, but
the responsibility is on both sides.  

Now if you can't get back to the point and need to waste time debating
these very obvious concepts, set a new topic and at least stick to that one.

>it.  A receiver's belief in the meaning cannot in any way alter the
>sender's intent.

Let's stop screwing around.  Are you debating the meaning of
"communication" or the meaning of "intended communication"?
Get back to the point.

GMS
From: Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Summarizing the boycott (was Re: Boycotting the Vote)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 11:32:56 -0500

sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson) writes:

 CLS> Point to MS, in case anybody is scoring.

Not as often as I'd like to, and what's that got to do with pointing to Mike
anyway?  Do people often look for him after scoring?


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Is this line thing silly?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:39:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.133149.2442@brandonu.ca> mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:
>Lemme draw a line:
>
><-------------------------------------------------------------------->
>
>That line is supposed to be one dimension, extending to infinity in
>either direction right?
>
>But as we follow it one way or the other, it moves higher and higher
>off the surface of the Earth, and shoots off into space, right?
>Meanwhile, the Earth is rotating on it's axis and revolving
>around the sun, so the line I rew above is constantly changing it's
>position in the universe.  Also, the line above is being propogated
>to computer screens all around the world, each pointing in a different
>direction.  So doesn't the above 1 dimensional line actually occupy
>a great deal of the volume of the physical universe over time?
>
>I just couldn't sleep last night, and thought that up.  Is it silly?
>

Hmmm.  Well, thanks for sharing that, Brian.  

GMS
From: daver@felix.filenet.com (Dave Richards)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: How to make a good ghost illusion?
Keywords: Ghost, multiple exposure
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:09:08 GMT
Reply-To: daver@fritz.filenet.com (Dave Richards)
Organization: Costa Mesa, CA

>In article <20479@fritz.filenet.com> daver@fritz.filenet.com (Dave Richards) writes:
[beam-splitter ghost process description deleted]

In article <1992Oct15.203130.1379@clark.edu> gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) writes:
>Pardon my question, but what do you focus on, the background behind the
>glass plate, or the reflected image from the glass plate.

If you wanted both the background and the ghost to be in perfect focus, the
answer would be "both".  In that case, the distance from the camera to the
background would have to be the same as the distance from the camera, off
the glass, to the ghost subject.  Or, if there was a slight difference in
distance which you couldn't correct by rearranging your setup for some reason,
you could use a very small aperture (higher f number) for more depth-of-field.
A more likely scenario would be to have the ghost subject in focus, and the
background slightly out of focus, to more closely simulate a realistic ap-
pearance.  In that case you would have the ghost subject slightly closer to
the camera than the background, and use a wider aperture.

Still a third possibility might involve having the ghost interact with another
human subject that appears normal.  For that to work, the "living" subject
would stand in front of the background and you would focus on them.  The ghost
would have to be the same distance away to be in focus.  Again, the background
may or may not appear slightly out of focus, depending on the relative dis-
tances and the aperture used.  If you wanted a picture of the "ghost" and
"living" subjects shaking hands or embracing, etc, it would require you to
give a little direction to the models while looking through the viewfinder,
since they would actually be several feet apart.

Dave
From: ss51@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Sundaram Sridharan)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: studio effects
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:38:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Columbia University


can some one recommend a flash that gives pictures as close to the studio ones
as a slightly experienced photographer can get? I mean something that creates
softer features without sharp shadows(this is for a 35mm slr camera)
Please EMail me
thanks
SS
From: teter@vixvax.mgi.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: What is Barcodes ???
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:26:09 GMT
Organization: Management Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Oct6.165637.858@col.hp.com>, cab@col.hp.com (Chris Best) writes:
> Well, one obvious use of "bar-coding" is for DX encoding.
> This may not be what you meant, but nobody has mentioned
> it yet.
> 
> DX codes are the black and silver squares printed on
> the film cannister - some cameras are able to read this
> and set the proper ASA automatically.
> 
> It's not a "bar code" exactly, since that usually means
> something that is read optically (DX codes are usually
> read electrically, with contacts touching the cannister),
> but's along then lines of what you're asking about.

Part of the whole DX coding scheme is a barcode on the cassette.  You can
see these codes on Fuji, Kodak and AGFA film but not Polaroid.  The barcode
is unique for each type and length of film so you can derive roll length,
film speed, exposure latitude and film emulsion type.

The company I work for makes film recorders that read this barcode and
select the proper color balance table to match the light output of the
recorder to the film.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Teter					 Internet:      teter@mgi.com
Management Graphics, Inc.			 MGI Main:    +1 612 854 1220
1401 East 79th St.				 MGI FAX:     +1 612 851 6159
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55425-1128 USA		 Desk /vmail: +1 612 851 6101
From: babu@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Natarajan Sureshbabu)
Subject: Minolta lens -help required
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:11:04 GMT

I am planning to buy a Minolta 3Xi. But I found out that
in the range 35-80, they have only power zoom, and not auto zoom.
Is there any other company making autofocus autozoom lens for 
minolta 3xi. Also, can someone give me info asto how
the autozoom is better? Thank you.

Bye,
Suresh Babu
From: gt8006b@prism.gatech.EDU (Bradley D. Porter)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Minolta Autocord
Summary: info needed
Keywords: minolta autocord
Date: 13 Oct 92 03:36:36 GMT
Followup-To: rec.photo
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Does anyone have any information on the Minolta Autocord Twin-Lens 
Reflex camera?  I would like to know about age, history, etc.  I know
It's capabilities.
                         Thanks
                         Brad



-- 
->  Bradley D. Porter      Georgia Institute of Technology     Sophomore-ChE  <-
->Internet: gt8006b@prism.gatech.edu        US Mail: Georgia Tech Box 38006   <-
->          bporter@isis.cs.du.edu                   Atlanta, GA    30332     <-
->"Announcer: ...towels may be harmful if swallowed in large quantities"-HHGTG<-
From: mvolo@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Michael R. Volow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Nikkor 20mm f3.5
Keywords: lens comparison
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:34:18 GMT
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service


I bought a used Nikkor 20mm f3.5 (w/52mm filter size). This is a 
superb lens!!! It has good contrast, is sharp, has very little
linear distortion (ie, barrel or pincushion), and is physically
small. I verified this by doing a lens test with USAF targets.
It also has low flare. I traded my 24mm f2.8 Nikkor for it and 
I'm glad I did. I like the 20mm point of view much better. The speed
is fine, and focussing is not difficult, in spite of the 3.5 aper-
ture. I haven't used the 20mm f2.8 Nikkor so I can't comment. I found
that the lens shade that I used with the 24mm worked fine on the
20mm without vignetting.

I compared it with a Canon 19mm f3.5 rangefinder lens (circa 1967)
which also tested well, but the Nikor was slightly sharper and 
was a bit more contrasty, and much better as far as flare.
-- 
Michael Volow, Psychiatry, Durham VA Med Center, Durham NC 27712
919 286 0411 Ext 6933               mvolo@uncecs.edu