HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jerbil@ultra.com (Joseph Beckenbach {Adapter Software Release Engr})
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Heraldry and Copyright Law
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:42:44 GMT
Reply-To: joe@davids.mmdf.com
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies

Unto those here gathered
doth Joseph d'Aquitaine send courteous greetings!

	In the United States, you may copyright a particular execution of
any drawing by tacking on the copyright notice.  Technically, your drawing
is "born copyrighted", but many aren't worth registering to the Copyright
Registration Center.  Note that the blazon, which is the heraldic description
of the armory, is NOT copyrightable;  the collection of blazons which the
heralds of the SCA use for internal research IS copyrighted.

	We had someone submit a device some months back in the West, with a
copyright notice attached to the emblazon.  I think we could have recopied it
and sent it on under the Fair Use principle, but I think Vesper had to return
it for another reason.

	I'm surprised anyone wants a copyright of their armory.  There are
more things than are thought of in my philosophy, obviously....

		Joseph
-- 
----
Joseph Beckenbach	jerbil@ultra.com	408-922-0600 x246
	(speaking from, but not for, Ultra Network Technologies)
Silliness forever, with a side of garlic slaw!
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles)
Subject: Re: Late Night Noises (was Pennsic Land Allotment)
Summary: Don't overuse earplugs
Organization: Vanderbilt University student of numerology
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 02:49:39 GMT

To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!

Dorothea of Caer Myrddin writeth:
> I could not have done it without earplugs.  They make _good_ earplugs
> nowadays.  I can't remember any brand names--there is more than one

Warning!  My mundane sister, the audiologist, tells me that sleeping with
earplugs on a frequent basis often leads to ear infections.  Occasional
use is safe.
-- 
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
From: Jeff Lee <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Programming/eyeglasses
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 18:37:37 EDT
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

(Sorry for replying to the Rialto, but I missed the original message, and
the original sender's address isn't in the message...)

Tadhg writes:
>      Eadred Aethellystan wrote:
>                                                 [...] I need ask only one
>      question: how old were any of you other programmers when you were
>      first fitted with glasses?


Well, I began programming in 1977, and I believe I started wearing glasses
in '80 or '81.  (Though I don't think it's so much programming as READING
which caused my nearsightedness -- if, indeed, the theory that eyes adjust 
to the most oft-used distance is true...)


>  [On the other hand, I've just gotten through having radial keratotomy, and
>  don't wear glasses anymore. I'm sure that will screw up *somebody's*
>  data....]

Then it actually works?  I've seen paid hype in newspapers about it, but
said advertisements never publish any references (which led me to believe 
that it was just a snake-oil remedy)...  Oh, to be able to live without
glasses or contacts!

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
      "Of course!  Lager!  The only thing that can kill a vindaloo!"
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: casig
Date: 28 Aug 92 07:13:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.715047126.F00004

EC>  From: canton@robinson.ilog.fr (Eric Canton)
EC>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
EC>
EC>  You could use "la soule", the ancestor of rugby (it's the french
EC>  name, I
EC>  don't know the english one, if it has one), but with gentler rules :
EC>  you
EC>  wouldn't like to have a period casualties rate...

EC>  Claude de Montcastel

References?

Moreach NicMaolain
email to: trifid@agora.rain.com
From: grimmund@edsi.plexus.COM (Grimmund Blackwing)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: bunny round and other weird words
Date: 27 Aug 92 15:15:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: edsi.1992Aug27.151542.2314
Organization: Enterprise Data Systems Incorporated, Appleton WI


Thus speaks the Weasel, Grimmund Blackwing 

 	I don't know about the other terms you mentioned, but Florentine  
is a fairly generic term for any two-weapon fighting term.  As far 
as anyone around here knows, the term is derived from the old 
Florentine style of rapier and main-gauche (left-handed dagger) 
fighting style.  Properly, Florentine would refer to this style 
and this style alone, but it is commonly used two describe any 
two-weapon style, usually with the two weapons named if they are 
something other than two swords.

	Or at least that's how we use it here.

 Grimmund Blackwing,
Shire of Windhaven, Northshield, Middle Kingdom   

Usenet:  grimmund@edsi.plexus.com
From: rday@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E Day)
Subject: Re: Grand Pennsic
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:31:09 GMT

In article <715002416.F00001@therose.pdx.com> Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.
pdx.com (Suze Hammond) writes:
>MS>  T Archer says:
>MS>  I still don't have it clear why the Pensic War has suddenly gained
>MS>  a politically correct name.
>MS>  Don't expect the Pennsic Mistake to be repeated.  I'm sure hoping it
>MS>  won't be.
>Considering the *reasons* for the "mistake", fighters taking the "War"
>aspect too seriously *last* year, and mounting injuries...perhaps the
>majesties can get away with just *threatening* to make it into a
>Fair/Tourney next time.
>However, the cause *was* sufficient.

I do not think that the change in the name had _anything_ to do with the
fighters not taking this "WAR" too seriously.

The Middle knew that they were going to be outnumbered by almost 2:1. The only 
thing that they were serious about was not getting hurt. I would assume that 
the Easterners knew that they would outnumber the Middle, and therefore not 
need to worry about winning.

I feel that if the sides were even, and the Middle could have won some of the
earlyer battles, it would not have mattered what the Kings/Queens would have
done with the name. It would have been the same as last year. I just hope that
the memory of this years "fun" war will help make next year's war fun also.
-- 
If the price that I must pay to obtain my *  Robert E. Day/Syr Otto von    *
freedom, is to acknowledge that the Gov-  *  Schwartzkatz, Shire Mugmort   *
ernmet was granted the power to infringe  *  Barony Middle Marches,        *
on them, then I am not free. Paul Anderson*  Middle Kingdom                *
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: safety for marshals (was: Re: Town Battle at the War)
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:57:58 GMT

In private mail to the original poster, I mentioned one
problem with the scheme of marking scouts helms with
bright tape.  How are you supposed to sneak around in
the woods when your helm screams "Look at Me!"  "Here
I Am!" to everyone?`

I tried scouting drills in a red shirt once.  It didn't
work.  Later that day, I tried them in a dark green
shirt.  That worked.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: safety for marshals (was: Re: Town Battle at the War)
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:50:56 GMT

In article <1888qgINN3mv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance) writes:

>(An aside:  Can anyone tell me why, with most of the US in a temperate
>to subtopical climate, black armor is so popular?  Or does testosterone
>poisoning affect the parts of the brain controlling common sense?)

Maybe it's 'cause armour in the Middle Ages was frequently black.

Is there a widespread problem of marshals getting clocked?  I've only seen
it once.  The fighter was asked afterwards why he kept laying about the
marshal (Laurelen Darksbane it was) with a polearm.  His reply:  "He wouldn't
go down".  I suspect that a bit of training would be worth any amount of
bright orange cloth.  Somebody made reference to people being told to "hit
anything with blue tape".  That's the sort of thing that can be done away
with.  Teaching marshals to duck would be good too.

Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: SCA Heraldry and Copyright Law
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:07:00 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Someone whose name I misplaced wrote:

> In th United States of America, heraldry is just another art for like
> corporate logos or the Golden Arches; here in Canada, heraldry is
> heraldry, and rights to arms come down from the crown (until recently via
> the Ulster, Garter or Lyon King of Arms, but since 1988 from the Canadian
> College of Arms).  

Boris replied:

>  However I stand by my assertion that sca arms are nothing more than art 
> work. To be valid as true armorials they would have to be registered. 
> Only then would you have the right to stop someone else from using yours.

Both of you are essentially correct.  In the US, a piece of armory has no
significance beyond any other piece of artwork.  In countries with heraldic
authorities, a piece of armory which is used to make an unfounded claim to
armigerous rank becomes part of a fraud, but if it used only in the context
of theatrical pageantry (which is essentially what the SCA is in a legal
sense), then it has no particular significance at all.  I should note that
the SCA has not received formal opinions from any mundane heraldic
authorities, but we have received several informal opinions, and they are
unanimous.  We are planning to get authoritative statements from as many
mundane heraldic organizations as possible.

Grammatical note: Where you use the word "armorial", Boris, I think you
mean "arms" or "armory".  "Arms" is the heraldic device of one person;
"armory" is a collective referring to many sets of arms.  The noun
"armorial" means "a list of arms organized by name of the bearers".

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: ics.vance@Control.Com (Vance J. VanDoren)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: A&S camp / music camp at Pennsic
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:51:41 GMT
Reply-To: ics.vance@control.com
Organization: Industrial Computing Society

daver@mozart.amd.com (David Rubin) writes:

> Robyn Solarius                  Dave Rubin
> Bryn Gwlad, Ansteorra           Austin, Tx.
> 
> 
> P.S.  I would like any and all feedback on the Polyphonic challenge.....
> 
> 
The Rivenstar Madrigal Singers (from the Barony of Rivenstar, Middle
Kingdom) were delighted to learn of the Polyphonic Challenge some weeks
before the War.  We rehearsed a number of our favorite pieces specifically
for the purpose of entertaining the other participants as best we could.
But alas, we were disappointed to learn that the Challenge was scheduled
for Saturday afternoon during the Bridge Battle. That precluded the
participation of most of our basses and all of our tenors who, curiously
enough, came to the War to fight as well as sing. Too bad we couldn't do
both. We'll be there next year, though, if it can be scheduled for some
time earlier in the week.

Pieter van Doorn
Barony of Rivenstar
Middle Kingdom
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Edward Zifran of Gendy (was Re: Pennsic Land Allotment)
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:02:47 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House

In article <1992Aug31.030314.24001@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:

>Yes, It's true, he's been knighted twice. The only double knight in the
>Knowne World as I understand it. And I hope he forgives me the use of the
>familiar name in the public forum. If not, I'm sure I'll find out about it.

Others have, of course, been knighted twice.  Eddy might just be the only
case in which there was no intervening resignation or degradation.

Aryk Nusbacher
From: ics.vance@Control.Com (Vance J. VanDoren)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Heraldry and Copyright Law
Date: 2 Sep 92 02:20:00 GMT
Reply-To: ics.vance@control.com
Organization: Industrial Computing Society

bnostran@ds5000.DAC.Northeastern.edu (Barbara Nostrand) writes:

> Gentles!
> 
> Recently there has been some discussion on the heralds list about
> whether SCA armoury is protected by copyright law, whether it 
> should be and if so who owns it.  I believe that this is one
> aspect of a general question concerning what the society as a
> whole expects from the "protection" afforded by registration
> with the CoA.  Thus, I hope that there will be some discussion
> of what the populace desires in regards to name and device
> "protection."
> 
> 					Your Humble Servant
> 					Solveig Throndardottir
> 					Totally Ignorant

I registered my device some years ago and now display it proudly
in many fashions customary in the S.C.A. (on my surcoate, banners, etc.)
I have recently adpoted a variant of same as my corporate logo. 
Heraldically, the two would conflict, but I would pay little heed to
an S.C.A. herald's objections to my mundane logo. Nor do I expect the
S.C.A. to "protect" my interests by defending my registered device
against infringement by a mundane organization (i.e., my own company).
I support the B.O.D.'s  policy to limit their interest to matters of
importance strictly _within_ the confines of the S.C.A.'s activities.
Copyright protection for S.C.A. heraldry would not fall into this 
category.

Pieter van Doorn
Barony of Rivenstar
Middle Kingdom
From: baker@ROBOCOP.NYU.EDU (Jonathan Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Historical Accuracy (was Re: COVINGTON CROSS)
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:16:14 GMT
Organization: Courant Institute, New York University

Aryk compares the TV show to the level of authenticity produced by the SCA.

I would respond that we might expect a television program/movie to be
able to reproduce a period with a higher level of authenticity than 
SCAdians, for a number of reasons:
1) Money - they have hundreds of thousands of dollars, even millions, to
produce each program, whereas we are individuals, many working in low-
paying jobs, or in the military.
2) Acting talent: TV and movies are made with ACTORS, who are able to
assume a persona different from their own and carry it off with some
measure of conviction.
3) Costuming: They have professional costumers who can, one would hope,
produce reasonably accurate facsimiles of period clothing

Presumably they have the same access to libraries that we do as private
citizens.  One can thus reach the conclusion that the reason for the
inaccuracies is something intentional.  They wish to create a mood of
medievalism, but still need to sell their program to modern audiences.
Most modern audiences won't need extreme accuracy.

	On the other hand, my parents were rolling on the floor laughing
at Covington Cross, and they aren't particularly big on the Middle Ages.
My mother is a high school history teacher, who was mostly interested in
American history, and my father never really went to an academic college:
he graduated from Juilliard in 1939, but he spent many years in orchestra
pits reading anything & everything he could in the breaks between trumpet
parts.

	ObNitToPick: Did anyone notice that the pattern on the coachman's
cloak was the royal arms of France? (azure, semy de lis)  Was the sheep
trader/spy royalty?

	In service, I remain
	Deudone' d'Oxneforde
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Ooops...
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:58:35 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Rialto

Greetings to Ellisif, and apologies to everyone else, from Angharad.  My
mailer ate your message, complete with header, as I was in the act of
writing an answer.  I now have an answer, but no address to send it to ;(.

If you'll send me your address, I'll send my attempt at answering your
questions.

Humbly,

-- Angharad/Terry
From: Bob.Upson@f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Blue Feather and "poof-da" ?????
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 01:54:00 -0500

> However, this conversation no longer belongs here. I've directed
> followups to alt.politics.homosexuality*.
 
And exactly how many of us do you expect to be able to follow it there? <LOL>
 
I *do* hope you'll at least post any replies here where they can be read by the
original participants of the conversation...

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Subject: Re: soap ingredients
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:14:15 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC
Keywords: sources?

In article <1992Sep2.182125.25809@tc.fluke.COM> eris@fluke.tc.fluke.com (Chris Beckmeyer) writes:
>greetings-
>
>awhile ago i received much help from this group in locating soap recipes in-
>cluding a rec.crafts.* group name.  i'm now asking for assistance in locating
>a source (preferably in snohomish county) for lye.  i'll be saving saving wood
>ash over this winter to leach my own for next year.  for now i need the
>commercial kind.  any help is greatly appreciated.  email please.

	I don't know where snohomish county is, but when I needed lye I
got out the yellow pages and started calling chemical companies and asking
if they sold retail. The first one said yes, it cost me $10 for 1 pound of
sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) crystals.
						-Ilaine


-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Ilaine's E-Z Garb Workshop
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	Before you can spin the wool, you need to comb it.
                   | 	Use the combs with the 5 rows of 6" razor sharp spikes.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sherman@trln.lib.unc.EDU ("Dennis R. Sherman")
Subject: FAQ available
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:17:14 GMT

Greeting to the Rialto from Robyyan.

The beginning-of-the-month reminder (which will be repeated weekly 
this month, as the beginning of fall terms all over can be expected to 
bring us new readers):

There is a Frequently Asked Questions list available, providing
answers to those FAQs, and a posting style guide.

To get your very own copy, you can

1.  Wait for the middle of the month, when I will post the entire thing.
2.  Retrieve the list via FTP from one of the following sites:
		site		  filename
	meadow.stanford.edu	pub/faq.txt
	rainbow.cse.nau.edu	sca/rialto.info
	bransle.ucs.mun.ca	pub/sca/rialto_faq
3.  Request a copy from me via email.
4.  Retrieve the FAQ from news.answers, or any site with news.answers
    archives.

And again a reminder: if you have suggestions for things to include in
the FAQ, or opinions to offer on anything that is already there, please
mail me - I may not see a suggestion buried in a posting to the Rialto.
I respond to all comments I receive, and occasionally summarize to the
Rialto if it seems appropriate.

*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Robyyan Torr d'Elandris  Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill  Atlantia *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Dennis R. Sherman  	         Triangle Research Libraries Network *
* dennis_sherman@unc.edu       Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Pennsic Openness
Date: 26 Aug 92 01:27:04 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Good gentles,

The recent discussion of land allocation at Pennsic has reminded me
of another topic -- the "decline" in "friendliness" of the various
camps at the War.  In the "old days" -- my first War was Pennsic VI --
almost all camps save for the Dark Horde's were "open" in that there
were few ropes and folks "passing through" were hailed with friendly
greetings rather than "What are you doing in OUR camp?"  (Not the the
Horde Camp was "unfriendly" -- just that they made a big deal about
needing an invitation of some sort to enter.)

Many camps at Pennsic are still welcoming and friendly -- stray
passers-by and lost wanderers are greeted, feted, and even offered
refreshment.  Still, a growing percentage of the encampments at the
War are walled or thoroughly roped off and "trespassers" are decidedly
unwelcome.  I can think of dozens of reasons for this change in attitude:
the size of Pennsic these days and concern with security among them.
But I wonder -- is there any way to encourage hospitality and discourage
hostility and territoriality?  Any ideas, folks?

In the mundane world we have the "National Night Out" where folks are
encouraged to turn on their porch lights and sit out front for the
evening and get to know their neighbors.  Perhaps we can have a
"Neighbors' Night" at Pennsic where visiting encampments of
folks you haven't met is ENCOURAGED?

I welcome your thoughts and suggestions on the issue.

Many thanks -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..."
From: snolan@postmaster@hq.af.mil (Scott D Nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Great diesel beasts at Pennsic
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:04:39 GMT
Reply-To: snolan@marge.hq.af.mil
Organization: 7th Communications Group

> The great diesel beasts at Pennsic were an annoyance, bleating their 
> challenge out in both daylight and darkness.  However blame not all of 
> them as being unfriendly and malicious.  Most of them were blaring not to
> awaken campers, but to express displeasure and alarm at the throng of smaller
> dragons perched on the roadside, or in the road, peering into the camp.

How does that explain the beating all through the night?  I find it
hard to believe that there were so many casual onlookers at 2-3 hours
before sunrise each morning!

Our camp surmised that some irate local was on his CB home station
telling misinformation about us on the channels used by traffic of
I-79.  We figured that someone was telling the beasts to bleat at us.

Any other ideas?  I'd like to figure out a way to stop the irritation
from happening again, and I believe that keeping the passers-by from
noticing is the very best way.

Duncan Tiercel MacLeod
Barony of Storvik
Atlantia