HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Ran( Homosex in Mombaasa....)
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:51:28 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <102775@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>
>This isn't an African thing.  Most Americans, Europeans, Australians and
>so on abhor homosexuality.  It's only in the last several decades that
>"gay liberation" has brought it out in the open in the West.  Of course,
>there were times in the deep past when it was considered perfectly normal
>and even encouraged.
>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

Look, f your argument is that there can be found in Africa individuals who 
acquired certain tendencies, then that might be true. There is no question
that there are some Africans who are sodomised by foreigners. These normally
act as male prostitutes in the sense that they might yield to a teacher or
priest or an employer in exchange of financial favours. These people eventua
lly do get married to their own women. Their conduct does not at all represent
any kind of conduct you would find among Africans. It does not show "homosex
uality in Africa" any more than a group of Africans teachin an American Hausa
or Lingala shows that Americans have ever known Lingala. Yes, if you say that
there are Africans who engaged in sodomy with foreigners then that is true.
I heard of an English teacher who was arrested and deported for sodomising
his house servant ( incidentally, this sodomy law is a relic from colonial
law which the British imposed on us). 
Similarly I have pointed out that in coatal areas, foreigners who have lived
their many centuries are known to sodomised their african acquaintences (eg
Swahili etc....) This is what I have been saying all along.
Our position is that AfricAns do not indulge in this. If you don,t underst
and this, this is the equivalent of saying : Red Indians eschew and absolut
ely do not practise Christianity where as Europeans in America do. 


makala
From: cochrane@ae.agecon.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: ALI MAZRUI--A NEW WORLD ORDER?
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:35:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:MAILQUEUE-101.921217093450.256@a:820745652:000:1816
Nf-From: ae.agecon.wisc.edu!cochrane    Dec 17 07:35:00 1992


From: "Jeffrey A. Cochrane" <COCHRANE@ae.agecon.wisc.edu>
Reply-To: cochrane@ae.agecon.wisc.edu
Subject: ALI MAZRUI--A NEW WORLD ORDER?

In an interview on America's National Public Radio, Ali Mazrui
suggested that while America's intervention in Kuwait was quite in
keeping with the old world order, the intervention in Somalia might
very well be a signal of a new and, in his view, more benign world
order.

Ali Mazrui is one of the more famous African scholars in the US due to
his television series "The Africans: A Triple Heritage" on the Public
Broadcasting Service.  I believe he has joint appointments at
universities in Ohio and Nigeria, but is originally from Kenya.

This week's Time magazine closes with an essay essentially agreeing
with Mazrui.  On the campus of the University of Wisconsin tonight
will be a meeting of student activists and others presumably to
discuss why the American intervention in Somalia is really a part of
the old world order.  I see that there will also be a rally in New
York's Herald Square to protest the US invasion of Somalia (I picked
that up from NY Transfer I believe).

This is obviously still quite a debated topic, and the jury has not yet
returned a verdict.
****************************************************************
Jeffrey A. Cochrane
Department of Agricultural Economics
University of Wisconsin-Madison
427 Lorch Street           Internet: Cochrane@AE.AgEcon.wisc.edu
Madison, WI  53706  (  )   Peacenet: Cochrane
USA                 (xx)    Fidonet: Cochrane 1:121/25.3
             /-------\/      Bitnet: Cochrane@WISCMACC
            / |     ||        Phone: (608) 263-1903
           *  ||vv--||         Chat: Room 317 Taylor Hall
              ^^    ^^          Fax: (608) 262-4376
****************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet)
Subject: Re: New Topic
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 09:53:33 GMT
Organization: Dept of Elec Eng, UCT

todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.195258.5951@panix.com> mukasa@panix.com (Michael K Mukasa) writes:
>>The guys wanted to know why when a brother had a white woman across his
>>arm they said "look at that cute guy with that ugly woman....." Yet before
>>he went out with that woman he was not cute.
>
>You know the saying "The grass is always greener on the other side of the
>fence"? I've noticed that women of every color often find men more
>attractive when they are no longer available. Don't ask me why. Come to
>think it, I've found some women looked cuter once they were involved
>with someone else [What has that guy got I don't !?]

It's possible people do look more attractive when they're in a (new)
relationship.  They're happier, and perhaps they're looking after their
appearance better for their loved one.  Or maybe they don't have the 
'groomed for hooking a partner' look, which I find a little ridiculous, 
if not repulsive :-)

-- 
The net is like a vast sea of lutefisk with tiny dinosaur brains embedded 
in it here and there. Any given spoonful will likely have an IQ of 1, but 
occasional spoonfuls may have an IQ more than six times that!
                                                     - James 'Kibo' Parry
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Dangerous Statements ....:
Date: 13 Dec 92 04:54:49 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Dec12.235244.16057@Princeton.EDU> mbarroso@watson.princeton.edu (Margarida Barroso) writes:
> My friend went to
>> study Chenmical Eng. in cuba. The professors hand translated American
>> text book and gave their students xerox copies. This is pathetic, we
>> don't need to pay the penalty for the limited accessibilty of Portuguese
> 
>Cubans speak spanish!!!!!!!!
>May you should go I learn some more about the world geography!!!!!!!!!!!


Of course I know that Cubans speak spanish. I realized that some might be a
little confused by the way I wrote, but that was after I had posted the artic
le. The gist of the illustration was that languages like spanish and portuguese
are impedements and no more of economic facilitators than say, Lingala or Hausa
or tonga. As Africans we stand to gain by all adopting english as our language
(more so than if we used even Swahili). We should exercise our priviledge to
choose since all these are equally foreign to us. As Africans we should begin t
o think more in terms of profit than of maintaining unecessary political allia
nces. 


makala
From: mdanjou@gel.ulaval.ca (Martin D'Anjou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Do you have news about the election in Madagascar?
Date: 13 Dec 92 18:04:04 GMT
Organization: Universite Laval

Does any body have news about the recent election in
Madagascar?

Martin d'Anjou
mdanjou@gel.ulaval.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis)
Subject: Re: u.s. somalia
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:41:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.162504.4557@sei.cmu.edu> firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth) writes:
>
>>of course, the people who got killed fired first and the good guys fired
>>back in defense so i have no particular sympathy for them.  on any account,
>>i don't think i will mistake the armed thugs for mother theresa, if you
>>catch my drift...
>
>Ah, so the invaders are suddenly good guys, and the people trying to
>defend their country from invasion are bad guys.
>
huh? invaders? surely you can't be referring to the u.s. troops who
are being welcomed by the somalis who are suffering because of the
people who you say are "trying to defend their country"...

-- 
  __  ______  __  / __/ |       at&t bell laboratories, naperville il, usa
_/ (_(_) / (_(_/_/_(_/  .       ronald@iexist.att.com / att!iexist!ronald
"if you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes" -- edmund wilson
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Subject: Re: New Topic
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:26:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.195258.5951@panix.com> mukasa@panix.com (Michael K Mukasa) writes:

[.....]

>The topic was what do you think of guys who go abroad and come home with
>white women.

[........]

>Kiggundu.
> 

A version of this thread-- interracial relationships -- makes the rounds
every three months on s.c.a.a. Basically you find two groups of blaks:

Group A (the Louis Farrakhans):

    This is VERY bad for race relations.

Group B (the "others"):

    Heck! I am the rainbow-fucking type. Variety is the spice of life!!

The truth (with the usual pronunciation: "trut") lies NOWHERE in betwixt!!
"Can't we just all get along together"..:-)

kauta.


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Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: krallman@sol.cs.uni-sb.de (Matthias Krallmann)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Western politians and human rights in Africa
Date: 15 Dec 1992 09:23:07 GMT
Organization: Universitaet des Saarlandes,Rechenzentrum
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.cs.uni-sb.de
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Hello,

one thing I sometimes get angry about is the behaviour of Western
politians towards certain African governments that obviously
don't care much about human rights and democratic structures
in their country although they normally state the opposite.

I cannot understand why Western countries being proud of their
more or less well functioning democracies support African politians
who fight against real democratic reforms and oppress the
opposition in their countries. Is money the only thing that counts?

I know my statement sounds somewhat naive. But I think it is
important to mention true points even is mentioning them is not very
popular or almost everybody in the western countries thinks that
that's the way it goes and you can't do anything against it.

Greetings from Germany

	Mathias
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Mathias Krallmann
email: krallman@cs.uni-sb.de
From: jama@austin.ibm.com (Jama Barreh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: SOMALI CAUSE
Keywords: The Somali tragedy has become a cause for a lot of people. Most of them are
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:15:12 GMT
Reply-To: ...@cs.utexas.edu:ibmchs!auschs!aspencer.austin.ibm.com!aspencer
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division
Originator: jama@inetnode.austin.ibm.com


sincere people who are truly concerned about their human fellows but for some
of them this has become a cause celebre.Even some con-men (con-women) got on
this and started soliciting on behalf of "starving Somali children" .
   There are groups who oppose US presence in Somalia without giving reasons or
alternative solutions. Some Africans say that Africa's problems must be  solved
by africans. I ask , where were you when half of the Somalian population was on
the brink of starvation??  There are those who are categorically opposed to any
western force on African soil. I , too , would have liked to see all African
force resolve the situation in Somalia , but the OAU was no where to be seen.
There are also those who claim that this western christian force will convert
the children of this 100% muslim nation into christians. Again I ask where
were you when they were starving to death??
   If you have nothing to contribute to Somalia , SHUT your mouth and find
another CAUSE.

                                               jama
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Ran( Homosex in Mombaasa....)
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:10:16 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)

In article <857@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, pmmst8+@pitt (Paul M Mweene) writes:
>>>Why should I believe you more than Alfred Machela?

>For the same reason that I do not believe that all white men are
>cannibals like Jeffrey Dahmer.

And I don't believe all black men are homosexuals like Alfred Machela.

You didn't answer my question.  Machela says he's Zulu and gay, you say
he isn't.  Why should I believe you?
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: sofia_g@athena.mit.edu (Sofia Gebru)
Subject: Re: New Topic
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:08:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.195258.5951@panix.com> mukasa@panix.com (Michael K Mukasa) writes:
>While I was hanging out this weekend with a few African friends, both men
>and women, letting the cold ones go down nice and slooooowww :-) :-)
>We started debating a very firey topic.  I dont know if it has been
>discussed here to exhaustion, because I only recently rejoined internet. 
>If it has, please mail me the conlusions.
>
>The topic was what do you think of guys who go abroad and come home with
>white women.
>
>-Do these marriages contribute to, or destroy the African family and society.

Don't really think so....

>-Are the men who marry these women mentally colonised, seeking to have the
>white man's possesions

Some are, and some are not...they just happen to fall in love.

>-Does the African man (Not all but some) promote these values among the
>society by equating beauty with lighter skin. 

Not really.  This value is already dominant on the continent without the help of this particular African man.  I would think that it also depends on how he acts and his attitude towards others when he is with the woman.  If it is "Don't come near me...I am too good for you" etc, etc....then maybe so.
 
>-Would the above attitude be the cause so many skin lightening products
>(like AMBI) are sold on the continent because the women are trying to look
>"more beautiful" in the mens eyes.

Sad, but might well be true.

>-Why is it when you see a brother with a white woman, she is usually
>mediocre.  Yet when you see a white man with a sister she is FIIINNNEEEE!!

Unfortunately, this happens to be my observation too.  I don't really want to speculate about it....it might just be a coincidence..
 
>-Since this is not a colour blind world and no concrete steps are seeming
>to be taken to make it one, is rejection of white women cultural
>self-preservation.

I don't think so.  I think you should cherish the valuable and beautiful aspects of your culture and reject others...so this should not require you to reject anybody...white, black, or green...  

>The women claimed there were not enough good men to go around.  The men
>said the women were in hiding or taken.  Some men claimed it was not okay
>to date or marry, but having a fling was okay.  This infuriated the women
>to no end.
>The some of the women claimed they were treated better by these guys than
>some of the Africans had treated them.
>The guys wanted to know why when a brother had a white woman across his
>arm they said "look at that cute guy with that ugly woman....." Yet before
>he went out with that woman he was not cute.
>
It might be because they know they will not get that particular guy...something
about an attraction for the unreachable...

>Anyway I would like to hear peoples views.
>
>Kiggundu.
>
From: ez008288@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Going to Angola
Date: 16 Dec 92 00:54:26 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis
Originator: ez008288@hamlet.ucdavis.edu

I plan on going to Luanda for my dissertation research on human
fertility.  I know the situation is very bad now but I still plan
to go.
I was in Angola in 1983-1984, and I am watching the current political
situation closely.  But I need some practical advice about how to get
around Luanda these days.  I need information on housing, food,
currency exchange, everything. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Subject: Re: Dangerous Statements ....:
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 14:50:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.135244.1213@Princeton.EDU> mbarroso@watson.princeton.edu (Margarida Barroso) writes:
>
>What's even more incredible is the fact that cubans speak spanish!!!!!

Do you find the fact that Cubans speak Spanish incredible??

OR

Do you find the fact that Cubans DON'T speak Spanish incredible??


You have to make up your mind pronto!!

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From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: SADF Purge
Date: 20 Dec 92 18:40:39 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4


Hot off the press. De Klerk announces a "purge" of the SADF
in response to findings of an inquiry into SADF covert
operations. Two major-generals dismissed and scores of other
officers. Interesting stuff. This seems to be in keeping
with expectations that the SADF remains locked in the
"cold war" of the 80s, especially in its top leadership,
who seem to have their own ideas about De Klerk's reforms.
Even more interesting. Apparently criminal prosecutions
may follow.

Not so hot off the press. Goldstone finds that the taxi wars in
Alexandria are at root caused by commercial competition
and lawlessness, gangsterism etc. This receives zero coverage
in the local press, prone to air more sinister theories at the
drop of a hat.

Gavan Tredoux
FACCS Lab
UCT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: matunda@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Nyanchama Matunda)
Subject: Re: Who is on this network from Kenya?
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:06:47 GMT

In article <199212162130.AA18086@tuna.wang.com> "AJIBOLA.A..OSINUBI"@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Ajibola A Osinubi") writes:
>Regarding joe's comment, I think this is good.
>
>Ajibola.Osinbi@OFFICE.Wang.com


Yes, a lot of them. There is even a kenya-net.


Matunda Nyanchama

Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:7087 soc.culture.african.american:12998
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: u.s. somalia
From: galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 19:57:26 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

ncostello@vms.eurokom.ie writes:

> ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis), AT&T  writes
> 
> > ...
> > ... after the way our guys toasted those armored vehicles ...
> > ...
> 
> I beg to object to that way of talking. [Of course you have the right
> to say that, I just mean I think you shouldn't.] Rightly or wrongly US
> troops killed quite a few people in those vehicles, it wasn't toast in the
> vehicles. I just think that way of talking is a way of dehumanising
> war and trying not to realise what it involves.
> 
> This is what worries me about America (well OK it's called the UN these
> days) intervening in civil wars in the third world and taking over a
> country. Sounds like a good precedent for a recolonisation of the
> third world now there's no counterweight like the USSR which for all
> its faults at least sometimes gave training and arms to people like the
> ANC, Sandinistas, etc. (And no this doesn't mean I want people to starve
> in Somalia or support the "warlords".)


Without getting into the semantic argument over the rightness or 
wrongness of using the word "toast" in this context, will just remind 
folx that the old Soviet Union bears a large measure of the 
responsibility for Somalia's descent into hell.

Both the US and USSR treated Somalia as a Cold War pawn on the Horn of 
Africa, but it was the Soviets who made the first move with it, trying to 
use Somalia as a staging base from which ti destabilize Haile Selassie's 
pro-US govt in neighboring Ethiopia. They even supported a partial 
invasion of Ethiopia by Somalia -- until Selassie was overthrown and 
replaced in power by Marxist army officers.

At that point, the Soviets switched sides and started backing and arming 
the Ethiopians against the Somalis, literally overnight. We, in turn, 
came in to arm the Somalis.

When both sides lost interest, we both pulled out -- but as you can see 
in almost any TV video clip from Somalia, neither side remembered to take 
its toys home with it.

If there really were such a thing as justice in the world, there would be 
Russian troops escorting the food convoys as well as ours. But then, the 
Russians have their hands full these days trying to feed *themselves,* so 
maybe not...
G.

--
Gregory Alan Gross      Welcome to life, where no good deed goes unpunished.
San Diego Union-Tribune         (619) 293-1270 (voice)
P.O. Box 191                    (619) 293-2333 (fax)
San Diego, CA 92112-4106        galan@netlink.cts.com (Internet)
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Subject: Re: Dangerous Statements ....:
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:31:55 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.080009.3934@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet) writes:
>pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:

>>Except ofcourse that Blacks ARE not citizens of South Africa according to
>>boer law.
>
>Well, doubtless you'll be delighted to know that the KwaZulu Police 
>have been issuing automatic rifles to Zulu headmen.  The only problem
>is, they're mostly used on ANC supporters, not on whites, and everyone
>in South Africa seems to think that the endemic violence in the country
>is a bad thing...  They obviously don't have the clear perspective that 
>you've gained from being in the States.

Trying to be sarcastic?? What is the logical difference between arming the 
boere and arming IFP supporters??? Or are you confusing IFP with APLA???

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