From: Harvey.Smith@p0.f1.n7002.z8.FIDONET.ORG (Harvey Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: er,excuse me
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:35:58 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 8:7002/1.0


 RA=>The "Messianic Jews" are a more subtle group taking on
 RA=>a more outwardly Jewish appearance to hide their acceptance
 RA=>of the tenets of Christianity.  At the core, they're not
 RA=>much different from Jews for Jesus.

We are brothers in the Lord thats for sure Robert, but you are missing the 
point altogether.  We are Jews period.  You don't wish to deal with that, we 
never said we did not accept the biblical tenents of Christianity, and every 
one, Jew or gentile knows well before they come to our conferences or Shules 
that we in fact are JEWS who believe YESHUA is the Messiah, and that we 
BELIEVE in Biblical Holidays in stead of Church holidays that have their 
roots in paganisn... 

We try to hide nothing.  You are a litary deceitful person.  We do not make 
any innuendos or any statements that we are even a part of Rabbinic Judaism. 
And we are quick to state that Rabbinic Judaism is only one sect of Judaism, 
not the only sect. Just to name a few:  Karaites, Messianic Jews, Hasidim, 
etc.  All are legitimate sects of Biblical Judaism...

 RA=>For example, the founder of the "Union of Messianic Jewish
 RA=>Congregations" and pastor of a Rockville, Maryland "Messianic
 RA=>Jewish [sic]" congregation is an ordained Presbyterian minister
 RA=>and was born of a Jewish father and a gentile mother.  

Since you are speaking about Dan Juster, i will reply, since he is a 
personal friend of mine, and i served in executive capacity on the board of 
the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations.

Your information is incorrect and false, and you would do well to get your 
facts straight before you make accusations.

The UMJC was created by 20 Messianic Jewish Congregations independent of Dan 
Juster.  Dan was called to be the first president by the Union of the 
organization.  Soon after my shule joined the movement, and i became the 
executive secretary of the Movement..

You are right Dan Juster's father is Jewish, and according to Torah, the 
seed of promise is passed via  Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to their male seed 
forever, and the rite called Bris, or circumcision is the seal of the 
everlasting covenant between G-d and Israel.

Since Dan is not a part of Rabbinic Judaism, and since Rabbinic Judaism is 
false in its teaching that the covenant proceeds via a Jewish mother thereby 
violating the covenant of Moses, and Abraham...

Dan is more Jewish than those in Rabbinic Judaism who do not have a Jewish 
Father.  However in Messianic Judaism, both lineage from Father and Mother 
are acceptable, as well as it is in Reformed Rabbinic Judaism..

 RA=>unless he converted to Judaism, he's still a gentile.]  Other
 RA=>movement leaders have ties to the Assemblies of God church,
 RA=>and even the Jews for Jesus movement.

NOPE wrong again Robert.   According to Torah, Dan is very much Jewish and a 
direct descendant of Abraham... No need to convert to Rabbinic Judaism which 
is incorrect in its lineage....

Since you mentioned the AOG church, it would be proper for me to respond 
here.  Since the AOG is not a denomination but a movement, there are many 
folks from many different backgrounds.  Each Church and or congregation is 
independent and Sovereign, but gather with the parent organization for World 
evangelism...  NO secret there either Robert.... However, the majority of MJ 
congregations are non affiliated with anyone but the UMJC which itself is an 
independent umbrella organization, with its members still maintaining their 
independence and sovereignty...

 RA=>nonsense.  As former "Messianic" Larry Levey writes:
 RA=>  "... When one looks beyond the seemingly self-assured 
 RA=>salesman's

Now that you mentioned Jews for Judaism, and Larry Levey who came, saw, and 
retreated.  Was never an MJ, but a deceptive person, who could cause no 
strife by attempting to infiltrate the movement..
The Jews for Judaism is also very deceptive, in that though they know full 
well the apologetics involved with the New Covenant, they still attempt to 
teach these false assumptions as you have, knowing full well they are 
reconcilable, but don't tell their unwary MJ beginner that...


So now that you have been thoroughly debunked, care to continue?  (grin) 


--  
Harvey Smith - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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