HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 08:51:53 EDT
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Pre-Verbal Child As Narrator?
              6 Apr 1992 17:05:31 EDT from <FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CI
              S.COLUMBIA.EDU>

On Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:05:31 EDT Tom Frenkel said:
>Does anyone out there know of a novel with an "I" who is a young
>child?  I mean *really* young... pre-verbal, or almost so (I realize
>there is some kind of contradiction here, but...)  I am thinking of
>something along the lines of _Sound and the Fury_, but with a child
>narrating instead of someone who's mentally deficient.
>    Thanks!  --Tom

=Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man= by James Joyce begins with such a
young narrator, but doesn't stay that way for long.

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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:05:40 MDT
From:         tellez_d@MERLIN.NMHU.EDU
Subject:      PRAMOEDYA ANANTA TOER
Comments: To: LITERARY@UCF1VM.CC.UCF.EDU

I am currently reading "This Earth Of Mankind", by Pramoedya Ananta Toer.  I am
familiar with the "Fugitive", also.  I am looking for more information on what
other of his works are available in translation.  Also, any information
regarding him other than his nobel laureate status would be helpful.

Dan
TELLEZ_D@MERLIN.NMHU.EDU
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X-Acknowledge-To: <PISTUD2@DKNKURZ1>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 10:12:26 MEZ
From:         PISTUD2@DKNKURZ1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Travel, Kerouac Style.
              15 Apr 1992 19:31:59 PDT from <LITERARY@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>

Sorry if this might come across as a flame.
But I think that while having e-mail and discussion lists it might still
be possible to use old-style reference material like an
encyclopedia.... rather than sending megabytes of mail to hundreds of
ppl who would have to use the encyclopedia,too , to provide
exact info on some stuff.
Wild Bill Hickhock might not be in scandinavian Enc.'s but Kerouac
definitely will be in the books in even a small town community
in the Midwest, right?

OKOK, Flame off :)

Oliver

Oliver Gassner   PISTUD2@DKNKURZ1.BITNET OR pistud2@nyx.uni-konstanz.de
Snail:  Am Briel 51c,  D-7750 Konstanz , South-Germany, Earth
Aliases -- Relay-Bitnet: KRAUT  IRC: Kraut_II  MUDS etc.: "Hagen"
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:21:07 EST
From:         LL85000 <LL85%NEMOMUS.BITNET@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Warning. Query is about a "sub-literary" genre.
Comments: To: LITERARY%UCF1VM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu

Peter--
Once again I fight with what my son calls our "antiquated main frame" a
about whether or not it sent the follow up to the reply I got an "error"
message about.  In it I had added my appreciation of your frowning face.
Once more I repeat the original message.
Ever since your Friday afternoon reply to my plea for help in finding
the paroldy involving *, I have intended to convey my joy at finding
someone out there.  And while--as you pointed out--Nathan is not what
I seek, I want you to know his remark is certainly in the tradition
and the proper spirit!  And I appreciate your sharing it enormously.
Carol
From: root@cayenne.Eng.Sun.COM (Operator)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Humanities West lecture
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:39:44 GMT
Reply-To: root@cayenne.Eng.Sun.COM (Operator)
Distribution: ba
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cayenne

HUMANITIES WEST: "San Francisco 1906 - 1939: Recovering the Lost City",
May 8 - 9, 1992, Herbst Theater, San Francisco

What was it really like in San Francisco following the great quake of
1906?  Find out when you join Humanities West on May 8th and 9th in an
unprecedented journey to explore "San Francisco 1906 to 1939" through
the art, literature and politics of post-quake life.

Your conductors on this tour through the past include a stellar array
of historians, writers, performers and scholars.  Through the eyes and
memoirs of the people who were there, their lectures will cover (and
uncover) little known facts about an era which formed the character of
a city.  "San Francisco 1906 - 1939" begins Friday, May 8 at 8 PM and
continues through Saturday, May 9.  Join us for an excursion to the
colorful past.  Call Humanities West at 415 387-8780 for information
and reservations.
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 00:16:00 PDT
From:         Michael Bruce McDonald <MCDONALD@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      once again carol i once again to begin peter i once again carol

Carol, your repeated messages to Peter certainly comprise an interesting
experiment in applying the methods of Gertrude Stein to hypertext, but at
some point perhaps you might think of switching over to personal mail!

Bemusedly,
Michael McDonald
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:48:00 PDT
From:         Christian Taube <TAUBE@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Pre-Verbal Child As Narrator?

>
>Try James's _What Maisie Knew_.  I think she's about six when the novel
>begins, and maybe thirteen at the end?
>
>                                            Paul

I don't think she's thirteen _physically_, but the way
James conveys her she must be next to sixteen or so. At
least that's what I got from it. (She's actually seven or
thereabouts.)

Christian.
--
(if you are looking for the bilder deepen your ear on the movietone!) FW 062.08
------ Christian Taube -- taube@oregon.uoregon.edu + taube@oregon.BITNET ------
---------------------- Scientific progress goes 'boink'? ----------------------
- Disclaimer: I don't speak for the University of Oregon, nor does it for me! -
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 09:05:24 EDT
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      re: benjy & wee stephen

On Wed, 8 Apr 1992 08:17:00 PDT naomi seeger said:
>  moocow is different from benjy's narrative because while it is singsong
>"non-sense", it is feeling wrapped up in words.  the words of benjy's
>narrative report experience, rarely any emotion, never thought.  wee
>stephen's moocow *carries* emotion, it doesn't describe.  sometime,
>
actually, there is a lot of emotion in Benjy's section.  it's impossible not
to detect his love for the things that give him pleasure.
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 09:45:00 CDT
From:         RBLEILER@PRIME.MHSL.UAB.EDU
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

To:  LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Re:  Pre-verbal literature

  In addition to the works already mentioned, how about the novels
of Mickey Spillane and Andrew Vachss?  They're definitely about as
close to preverbal as one could hope for.  8-)

  And, somewhat more seriously, I've run into a couple of short stories
with babies and animals as narrators.  I can attempt to locate them if
somebody wants.

  Richard Bleiler
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 06:36:45 -0500
From:         Eric Casteleyn <Eric.Casteleyn@PHIL.RUU.NL>
Subject:      Re: WRITERS & POETS NEEDED
              Apr 3, 92 12:23 pm

                Hi!,

   To answer your questions: You can send in as many submissions as you want,
in any format you like, but if you don't want your entries to be restyled,
submit them on A5-size paper. Send all submissions to:

       Ikarus publishing
       (E.J. Casteleyn)
       Watermolenhoek 16
       2807 ED Gouda
       The Netherlands       or email them to: casteley@phil.ruu.nl

   And now for some more info: We are a very small, non-commercial publisher.
We publish Dutch and English work in our magazine, by all kinds of young poets
and writers. Since we have no large investers (yet), we do the typing, general
layout, copying and binding of the magazine and the occasional book we print
   ourselves. We try to keep the prices of our publications low, so that anyone
can buy them. We (the editors of Ikarus) make no money whatsoever, and we
don't wish to, because we consider this more of a hobby. However, since we
don't make fat profits, we are not able to pay contributors to our magazine
in any other currency than eternal fame. Writers who publish an entire book
do receive an author's fee of 10% of the total sales + two free copies of their
   book. I hope this has answered your questions..

    We're looking forward to your submission(s) !!



                      bye,
                          Eric.


 PS  I'm not exactly sure what you mean by editorial guidelines, and I'm
     not sure that we have any, but the only criterium for us publishing
     something, is that we like it. 8)
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 10:41:26 EDT
From:         Nicholas Traenkner <NTRAENKN@KENTVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Joyce's box

Michael Bruce McDonald suggested that the letters entrusted to Stephen Joyce we
re to be opened in 2050. I'm afraid (if memory serves) that dear Stephen Joyce
incinerated the letters in a hope to tame the wild frustrations and habits of
junkies to Joyce's work. Alas, we may never understand the Wake, nor Ulysses,
though I'm not quite sure if I ever really want to understand either text.

   Joycean banter tittilates the minor frustration of misinterpretation into
a not only accepted but esteemed sea of mass confusion and dyslexia. Further
more areas of incognito lexigraphic elevation of thought and supposed imaginati
on that stimulates the metrical sense of what will never be understood, and the
 ineluctable modality of common art and literature have been reached in the stu
dy of a single mans works who was to a greater degree more lost than any of his
 readers.
               But we still keep reading his crap,
                  and proclaim it holy.

           "I know, its only Rock 'n Roll, but I like it."
                                              -Mick Jagger

study is for fools who know no ignorance... N.TRAENKNER (NTRAENKN@KENTVM)
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Return-path: subrat@itsictp.bitnet
Full-Name: Kar Subrat
Also-At: subrat@ICTP.Trieste.It
Tel: +39(40)2240205 [Off]  Fax  : 39(40)224559
Tlx:  460392 ICTP I        Cable: CENTRATOM TRIESTE
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 04:52:14 -0500
From:         "Kar Subrat" <SUBRAT@ITSICTP.BITNET>
Subject:      Re:Pre-verbal child as narrator

Off-the-cerebellum, I can only remember these where the pre-verb. c. is
the n. -

1. To kill a m.bird - H.Lee / young girl, post-verbal
2. The Tin Drum - G.Grass
3. The red salamander - (will look this up/found the review recently)
4. "Once upon a lifetime"- short story/(my memory's like a strainer)

Is a mentally retarded adult, who cannot speak, a child ?

Why are we discussing the pre-v. c. as n. ?

Subrat
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wednesday, 8 Apr 1992 22:57:28 EDT
From: Solace <SETOM@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: camille what's her name

I saw her recently on Donahue and I think he pronounced as pal-ya, but I
might be mistaken.  So this won't be any help at all.  :)  It was an
interesting and relatively uninsipid episode, pitting Ms. Paglia and the ideas
she presents in her new book against a more ideologically sound (which isn't
necessarily a good thing) feminist thinker/writer.  Unfortunately, the debate
quickly degenerated into a theatre of personality, with Ms. Paglia emphasizing
her feminist credentials and the other woman (I'm sorry I can't remember her
name) expousing the politically correct view.  I don't agree with Ms. Paglia
on a lot of points, but at least she recognizes that feminism is a
broad ideology representing a diversity of opinions and one can label onself
as a feminist without agreeing the mainstream.
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:36:00 PDT
From:         Christian Taube <TAUBE@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      Being in Germany?

Jeremy...
>  However, I can understand your stress if it does in fact cost you $$$
>to receive these transmissions as it normally does not for Bitnet users.

If Konstanz is a real Bitnet node, it shouldn't cost anything,
or does it, Oliver? _Internet_, of course, is a different matter,
if it comes through unido--I can't see how they will let you stay
on a mailing list with considerable traffic when each transmitted
kilobyte costs in the area of 45 Pfennig... :-( (I've had that
problem before...)

>Also, I must add that I am quite envious of you.  Germany is somewhat of
>a dream for me.  Oh, to be in the country where Goethe, Hesse, and Mann
>lived and wrote...

Well you know, it's not that big a deal :-). And keep in mind
that all of them wrote a considerable portion of their works out
of the country--just as I'm doing now. I never wrote that much
in Germany. Now that's foreboding, is it? :-) :-)

But then, I'm not the one to annihilate your dreams, of course.

Christian.
--
(if you are looking for the bilder deepen your ear on the movietone!) FW 062.08
------ Christian Taube -- taube@oregon.uoregon.edu + taube@oregon.BITNET ------
---------------------- Scientific progress goes 'boink'? ----------------------
- Disclaimer: I don't speak for the University of Oregon, nor does it for me! -
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Original_To:  JNET%"Literary@Ucf1VM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 08:21:00 EST
From:         REDMON@GMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Flames

MM-
  Here! Here!

Oliver-
  That is what this listserver is for.  Probably 90% of these computer
conversations can be cut short by encyclopedias, but why use encyclopedias
when you have a wealth of varied information accessible through hundreds
of unique, and perhaps ethnic people?  Before arguing over what one should
write about here one must first examine what this listserver is dedicated
to.  Break it all down to its purest and simplest form and you will see
that this is a source of information as much as it is fun.
  However, I can understand your stress if it does in fact cost you $$$
to receive these transmissions as it normally does not for Bitnet users.
Also, I must add that I am quite envious of you.  Germany is somewhat of
a dream for me.  Oh, to be in the country where Goethe, Hesse, and Mann
lived and wrote...

Jeremy Redmon
George Mason University
REDMON@GMUVAX.BITNET
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:13:00 PDT
From:         Michael Bruce McDonald <MCDONALD@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      medieval celluloid

Gosh, suddenly i'm wondering if i'm sending this to the right list . . .
anyway, a list of films about medieval times and dudes must surely include
*The Name of the Rose*, with Sean Connery, but if you haven't read the book,
i'd recommend doing that instead!

Michael Bruce McDonald

P.S. I notice that you're in Galway--i'm going to be there in late June, and
would appreciate any special recommendations you could offer.  Thanks--
my personal address is <MCDONALD@OREGON.BITNET>
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:49:00 GMT
From:         Amos Haggard <ENLNIFHLATHU@BODKIN.UCG.IE>
Subject:      Joyce papers

Naomi,

There was, we are told, a corrected typescript of the first quarter of
_Finnegan's Wake_, which seems to be the only thing of *literary*
importance.  The rest of the papers were mostly part of a correspondence
between Joyce and Leon, with the exception, it seems, of the letters removed
by Joyce's grandson.  He (understandably?) resents the whole literary
industry; he told the _Irish Times_ that people should read the books and
leave his grandfather's life alone, and added that no newspaper was
interested in what *he* had to say, anyway.  However, he says he has not
destroyed any of the letters, but left them for later opening.  It was part
of the Leon bequest that the wishes of Joyce's relatives should be respected
when the papers were opened.

A.H.
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 08:04:25 SET
From:         MARCO BRAMBINI <S573980@UNI-BOCCONI.IT>
Subject:      Stapledon

Leonard I completely agree with you abot stapledon s work
but since i ve bought i'll try to finish this book .
Unfortunately Hyperion isn't easy to find here in italian but i ll try .




                                      Marco Brambini
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:45:56 EDT
From:         "The Stevenator" <sbf2v@UVA.PCMAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: camille pal-lya
Comments: To: "Discussions about Literature" <LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

does anyone realize how long it takes to delete 18 personal messages you're
not even remotely interested in?
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:06:00 EST
From:         REDMON@GMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Travel, Kerouac Style.

Ladies and Gentlemen,
  A friend and I will be embarking on a tour of America from May 10 to May 24,
and we'll be hitting a few major cities during the trip, namely Atlanta,
New Orleans, Fort Lauderdale, Brunswick (well, not a major city, but it
sounds interesting,) and Virginia Beach.  One of the main reasons for this
trip is for me to do some image shopping, or setting work, for some fiction
that I am writing.  However, let me get to the point- What are some definite
places that my friend and I should see in these cities?  I mean, out of all
of your travels and such, what places are must memorable in these relevant
cities?  Your help in this will aid in fine-tuning my travel plans, also
making my journey more aestheticly (Spelling?) pleasing.

  In addition, what was the name of the book which Thomas Wolfe wrote where
he is travelling across country in a coach-train making various observations.
People tend to associate this book with Jack Kerouac's style of writing in
regards to travel logs.

Thanks in advance!!!!

Jeremy Redmon
George Mason University
BITNET Redmon@Gmuvax.bitnet
Internet Redmon@Gmuvax.Gmu.Edu
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:44:00 PDT
From:         Michael Bruce McDonald <MCDONALD@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      pre-verbal me not

I'm sorry, but the opening pages of *A Portrait* do *not* "meet the
criterion--it's true that a pre-verbal child is *represented* by the
narrator (or rather *a* narrator), but a "pre-verbal narrator" is not
just a paradox; it is an impossibility.

Adamantly,
Michael Bruce McDonald
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 08:17:07 EDT
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: pre-verbal me not

On Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:44:00 PDT Michael Bruce McDonald said:
>I'm sorry, but the opening pages of *A Portrait* do *not* "meet the
>criterion--it's true that a pre-verbal child is *represented* by the
>narrator (or rather *a* narrator), but a "pre-verbal narrator" is not
>just a paradox; it is an impossibility.
>
The original request was for something pre-verbal -or- as close to it as
possible.  =Portrait= is probably as close as you are going to come.

And Naomi, I disagree that =Portrait= is primarily about words; primarily it
is about growing up and coming of age.  Secondarily it is about art, as in
wordcraft.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:09:58 EST
From:         Randy Money <LIBRBM@SUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Asimov

    According to the radio this morning, Isaac Asimov died
yesterday.  I take it his heart finally gave out.  He'd been
in ill health for several months, having to give up much of
his writing time.  He was 72.

Randy
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 12:03:33 EST
From:         "ruth s. smith" <V2164A@TEMPLEVM.BITNET>
Subject:      book group

I just wanted to thank everyone for their suggestions for our book group.  They
liked the idea of reading various American authors and comparing life experienc
es. My task now is to compile a reading list which should be rathr easy.  Once
again, thanks.
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:05:31 EDT
From:         Tom Frenkel <FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Pre-Verbal Child As Narrator?
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Does anyone out there know of a novel with an "I" who is a young
child?  I mean *really* young... pre-verbal, or almost so (I realize
there is some kind of contradiction here, but...)  I am thinking of
something along the lines of _Sound and the Fury_, but with a child
narrating instead of someone who's mentally deficient.
    Thanks!  --Tom
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 08:54:00 EDT
From:         Sharon Hogg <hogg@NCI02.CIS.TEMPLE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Pre-Verbal Child As Narrator?
Comments: To: literary <literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

> I seem to recall that one of the Canadian women authors has
> written a novel in recent years narrated by a young girl, but
> I can't remember which author or what novel.  I'm so helpful! :-)
>   - Anne

Anne,

Could you be referring to Cat's Eye by Margaret Atwood?

~ Sharon
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