From: daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.abortion
Subject: Ad Hominem (was: Virginia and Darlene)
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:40:30 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

Usually I let the abortion rhetoric which passes through t.r.m, go untouched,
but this is the second time I've seen the basic ad hominem attack against the
faith of people who, from long standing acquaintance on the net, I know to be
sincere Christians: Steve Adams and Publius. 

In both recent cases, Mr Nyikos has, instead of answering their arguments,
accused them of being non-Christian, in an effort to discredit them.  In the
most recent effort, Mr Nyikos states:

>>Nice stories, but not one trace of Biblical elements.  What I usually
>>find in many anti-abortion articles is that they like to use the tactic of
>>sentimentalism, and avoid the sound and solid Biblical discussions.
>>
>>Regards,
>>-- 
>>For Christ and His Kingdom
> 
> Shouldn't that read either "For Anti-Christ and His Kingdom" or
> "for the coming triumph of secularism"?  I have seen no more evidence
> that Publius is a Christian than I have that    drieux   is a Christian.

Mr Nyikos, I have known Publius on the net for several years now.  In all
these years, Publius has been quite consistent in his Christianity.  To be
specific he is a modern Calvinist (holding similar but not identical views to
Charles Hedricks, who has moderated soc.religion.christian).  Now my respect
for Publius does not stem from any shared theology.  In fact, our two opinions
about Calvinism and Calvin himself have very little in common.  Our
differences though do not lessen my respect for the fact that he is almost
always soft spoken, or that he tries to have good references for his
assertions, or the fact that he will consider and respond to quality
references given to him and not reject them simply because he may not like
their impact on his beliefs (ie: he will accept a well documented fact even if
it is not what he would wish to be true).  While I do not share his theology,
I have found him to be an honest man.  Further, to his great credit, I have
never seen him respond to a disputant by labeling that person a supporter of
the "Anti-Christ," in an effort to discredit the person and his/her ideas. 

I would also at this time have gone into a defense of Steve Adams, but at
this time, but I noticed your disclaimer:

> Disclaimer: I have been very wrong in my assessment of Steve Adams.  It
> is conceivable that I am just as wrong here.

Now Mr Nyikos, if you respond to any those who disagree with you, with a
public judgement of them and their faith, and thereby cast doubt on their
integrity, do not be greatly surprised when people thereby start doubting your
integrity.  While Ad hominem judgements of other can be a powerful propaganda
tool, when recognized, it tends to discredit the accuser rather than the
accused. 

What is truly ironic about this situation, is that in judging the sincerity of
another Christian's faith, you are engaging in an explicitly unChristian act.
 
				Later,

				Dave Butler

    "Who art thou that judges another man's servant? To his own master he
     standeth or falleth. Yea he shall be holden up: for God is able to 
     make him stand" 
				Rom 14:4 

    "But why dost thou judge thy brother? Or why dost thou set at naught
     thy brother? For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of 
     Christ" 
				Rom 14:10
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,soc.culture.jewish