HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bruce@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Bruce Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Compatability questions
Date: 22 Nov 92 00:07:45 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>What you have is an Italian BB that is right hand threaded on both
>sides with a 36mm diameter 24 threads per inch thread.  Also known
>as 36 x 24 tpi.  This is the most common thread.  The next most
		  ^^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^^ ****** ^^^^^^^
   *!*!*!* ummmm, jobst, I'm not sure which country you're living in,
   but if you're in the USofA, I think that you'll find that english
   threads are used on virtually all bikes built in japan, taiwan,
   and other asian countries that are supplying the vast majority of
   quality MTB's, hybrids, and road bikes sold in this country, plus
   most of the bikes built or finished in this country, plus many of
   the handbuilt frames built in this country as well, due to the 
   increased probability that the reverse-threaded fixed cup will
   stay tight and also the widespread availability of replacement
   BB components -- besides having larger, differently threaded
   BB cups, the italians use a 70mm (wider than the 68mm shell 
   that is used on just about everything else in the world, except
   for some schwinns  and early mountain bikes) BB shell, and the
   spindles are therefore not cross-compatible.

>common is the English 1.370 x 24 tpi that uses a left hand thread
>on the right side.
>jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
   *******

   bruce
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: CMSC28@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Mark Hickey)
Subject: Re: 9 Cannondale Crit Frame
Organization: Motorola
Date: 16 Nov 1992 12:23:04 CST

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
>Hey riders,
>   I'm conidering buying a Cannondale Crit Bike, but I would like
>to do a good bit of long distance road riding with it.
>I found a real good deal on the crit bike, but am I going to be
>crying in pain after 100 miles ?  What kind of difference in
>frame stiffness is there between the crit and a normal road bike ?

My 'dale is an '86 SR500... looked fat at the time, but almost
skinny now!  I rode a lot of steel bikes, but two pedal strokes were
all it took to feel the difference.  I don't think the aluminum is
that much harsher, but the increased rigidity pays off.  I always
enjoy hammering up hills beside someone riding an Italian artwork
bike, commenting on their chain rub and unwanted shifts by saying
"I wish I could do that!".  But keep in mind, I like cars with stiff
suspensions, and will suffer through the extra shock for the ability
to feel the road.  I would think about the geometry of the crit bike,
though... you really don't want a bike that twitchy for your average
century.. you might sneeze and take down half the field!

Mark (also likes hitting self with hammer) Hickey
From: vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu (Jack Vinson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Cannondale MTB's (was Cannondale Crit)
Date: 19 Nov 92 03:18:53 GMT
Organization: The University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Nov17.205648.6888@eng.umd.edu> gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck) writes:
>When he took it back to the C'dale shop he bought it from they told him
>that taking the bike off-road was excessive abuse and they would not be
>responsible!

<1992Nov17.215059.4877@cbfsb.cb.att.com> writes this in article weird@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (john.t.erhardt)
>What the hell kind of shops are they?  Mountain biking on a mountain bike
>is excessive?   That's like saying a road bike isn't for sprinting, 
>or just riding fast.


This is actually sadly true about most MTB manufacturers.  I noticed a Trek
catalog that basically said racing any of the Trek MTB's voided the
warranty, and have heard as much about other companies.  I agree this is
BS, but this is what the companies do.  It's funny that they advertise with
all their great Tomac, Grewal, Overend, Furst, blah blah designed bicycles but
won't warranty them if you do what these folks do.  

One option is buying from a small outfit, like I did with my Purple Puddle
Eater.  I crashed on a major decent which had me flopping over a downed log
and noticed later that the down tube was wasted -- major break about three
inches from the head tube.  The guys who built my bike replaced the frame
AND rebuilt the bike no questions asked.  Bugle Brand Bicycles in
Wyalusing, PA.

The Purple Puddle Eater
Jack Vinson			vinson@unagi.cis.upenn.edu     
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Cannondale Delta V question
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 10:00:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.160302.2421@gacvx2.gac.edu> doachs@next-1.gac.edu (Dan A Oachs) writes:
>Theodore Chen wrote:
>> the problem is that the force 40 system, combined
>> with the deore 2-finger brakes, requires a lot of cable travel.
            ^^^^^
>> i find that the deore levers don't pull enough cable.  so i end
>> up with brakes that ride uncomfortably close to the rim (meaning
>> that if the wheel goes slightly out of true the brakes will rub)
>> and levers that go awfully close to the bottom under hard braking.
>	I own a Cannondale 1992 m1000 and it also has force 40  
>brakes.  I have not had any probles with the brakes being too close  
>to the rims.

if your M1000 is stock, it has diacompe SS-7 levers, not shimano deore.
a bike magazine suggested that SS-7 or SS-5 levers were better with
the force 40 system since they supposedly pull more cable than deore levers.
somebody said that this was not true and that the deore levers actually
pulled more cable.  i don't know what to believe at this point.
i will probably go try a 'dale with SS-7 levers and force 40 and see
how it compares to mine.  if the comment about amount of cable pulled
is true, i think the difference may lie in the amount of take-up at the
beginning of the lever's travel.

-teddy
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell)
Subject: Re: Force 40 Brakes [was Delta V question]
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 23 Nov 92 23:30:14 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech

In article <1992Nov23.211150.22849@src.dec.com>, jcollias@src.dec.com (Jim
Collias) wrote:

> This is all simple physics.

No it's not. It's engineering and physiology (ergonomics?). And it's not
that simple. For example, my girlfriend's hands are darn near half the size
of mine. Even though she has a powerful grip, there's no way for her to
pull as much lever travel as I can. Yet component manufacturers have to
design a single size of brake levers to fit all sizes of riders. Standard
off-the-shelf components are designed for average rider physiology. Custom
components can be tailored to the individual.


> The Force 40 system seems to stop better with 'less
> effort,' but you're pulling more cable, so it all evens out.

No it doesn't. There is a complete dimensional order between distance and
force.


> ... this all evens
> out, but it gives you great relief because your hands and your brain would PREFER
> squeezing 10 pounds 100 times, instead of 50 pounds 20 times,

Where on earth did Jim come up with this ratio? I'm not sure, but I think
the Force 40 is a 2:1 ratio over conventional setup. Max. Longer cantilever
systems (e.g. Paul's) are more like 1.3:1 to 1.5:1. I AGREE that the more
conservative increase in braking power (longer cantilevers) is preferable
over the drastic 2:1 increase of Force 40. But then that's opinion, isn't
it?


> 	If it takes 'X' to stop your bike, then your muscles HAVE to put out 'X'.

No they don't! Mechanical advantage really does work. That's why we use it.
That's why our bikes have gears and why 'spinning' outlasts 'hammering'.

One of the big advantages of increased leverage in a braking system is the
relief of *sustained* effort. Brake pads are not brought to x force and
then released. They are held at x force for varying lengths of time. After
the movement has been supplied to apply x force to the pads, the amount of
effort to maintain x force is reduced for an increased-leverage system. Any
long fast steep decent will accentuate differences in braking efficiency
that can be glossed over for short intermittant stops. It's after you've
been on the brakes hard for 30 minutes that the difference really shows up.

Jim keeps trying to make the point that the Force 40 system is somehow
fundimentally different than longer cantilevers. I maintain the difference
is strictly a matter of degree (quantity). I agree that it seems like the
Force 40 setup has gone too far in the direction of increased purchase, but
I don't buy his explanation.

  --scott

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: mvolo@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Michael R. Volow)
Subject: Re: road bike gearing
Keywords: gears, ratios, road bikes
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:05:56 GMT


These are pretty unsympathetic answers, probably from folks who
are in superb shape. The bikes you describe sound like relatively
inexpensive bikes. I'll bet the cranksets don't allow much smaller
chainrings, but bring your bikes to the bike store to confirm this.
The cheapest way to get a little extra gearing is to change the
freewheel. If you can find old Suntour 5-speed 14-34, use it 
If your derailler has a long cage it will probably work. But you
will probably need to lengthen your chain so that it will cover
the large cog/large chainring in case you accidently shift into
this combination. My memory is that the long cage Shimano 600
would cover the 34-tooth rear cog, but I think the Suntour Cyclone
long cage only covers 32 teeth.

Alternatively, in rec.bicycles.*, ask if anyone has a used triple
crankset for sale for $30-40. This would probably be the best answer
to your problem. You'll still need a long cage rear derailler, an
with this crankset you'll also need a wide range front derailleur
(e.g. Shimano DeOre XT).

Back in the late '70s when few of us had triple cranks and MTBs did
not even exist, when we wanted to ride in the mountains, we
swapped our racing cogs and deraillers for the 34-tooth freewheel
and long cage derailler, and they worked fine. You probably won't 
need a special front derailleur if you do the 34-tooth bit (unless
your current front derailleur has a very short cage),
-- 
Michael Volow, Psychiatry, Durham VA Med Center, Durham NC 27712
919 286 0411 Ext 6933               mvolo@uncecs.edu
From: biegler@castle.ed.ac.uk (R Biegler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Out of Control Front wheel
Date: 16 Nov 92 09:10:43 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Nov13.215748.18727@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> oscar@crackle.Berkeley.EDU (Oscar DeMartino) writes:
>I have a touring bike that is about 10 years old.  I have never
>been able to ride it with no hands.  I remove my hands from the
>bar and the front wheel starts to wobble.  The faster I am going
>it takes to get out of control but never more than 30-40 yards,
>3-4 seconds.

About ten years ago I had a ten-speed that developed such a wobble after
a collision hard enough to bend the fork.  I was daft enough to just
bend back the fork and ride on for three months as I couldn't see any
other damage.  Then someone asked me if I knew that my frame was broken.
The collision apparently had cracked the lug that holds the top tube to
the tube where the headset sits in (whatever that one is called).  It
then continued breaking and rusting until it was completely loose.  I
was VERY lucky.  Check your frame for fatigue cracks.

Robert Biegler
From: truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell)
Subject: Re: Spokes Breaking on Rear MTB Wheel
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Distribution: NA
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:19:01 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech

> I seem to have a recurring problem with spoke breakage. In the past two
> months I have had to replace 4 spokes on the drive side of my back wheel.
> The spokes break at the bend where they go into the hub and it looks like
> metal fatigue to my non-metallurgically trained eye. (15 ga ss of unknown
> make being replaced with 15 ga DTs, 32 hole XT hub, cross 3 lacing)

The rear drive-side spokes are the weak link in a multi-speed bike. They
have nearly twice the stress as the other spokes.

I would buy all new Wheelsmith or DT spokes of 14 gage. Butted (swaged)
spokes are fine but the elbows and threads should be 14ga. No-name spokes
may be manufactured from less-than-optimal alloys that may be more brittle
than quality stainless alloys. You're looking at a whopping investment of
around $16.00 to completely respoke a wheel (not including labor... i.e.
DIY)

It is likely that the entire wheel is too slack (all spokes need
tightening) or that selected spokes are slack. Slack spokes can bend (and
thus fatigue) under normal riding whereas tight spokes will always be under
tension and never bend. Pluck each spoke and listen for any gross
difference in pitch. Even if the wheel is true, it should be adjusted if at
all possible so that the tension is as close as possible in all spokes.
Spokes on the drive side will be tighter than spokes on the left side. You
may be able to solve your problem simple by backing off all the nipples and
retruing from scratch. I would still recommend getting quality spokes,
though.

If it is not possible to have all the spokes on one side near the same
tension and still have a true wheel your rim may be bent beyond practical
repair. A new rim will cost you around $26.00 for a Mavic 231. These are
NICE RIMS. In my opinion (and in the opinion of many expert riders around
here) these are better than just about any others, some costing many times
more. Don't get the anodized rims. Plain silver color is the way to go.

 - - -

My girlfriend's beater bike had a hard-to-deal-with rear wheel. It was
always going out of true and breaking spokes. She would take it into the
campus shop and have them fix it and each time they would tell her that she
needed an all-new wheel. We decided to attack the problem in stages. First,
the hub was fine... so there's around $20 we saved right off the top. I
disassembled the wheel and noted the brittle, small guage spokes -- some
company was trying to skimp pennies. I laid the rim on a flat floor and
noted that, despite years of neglect and abuse, it was still pretty true --
definitely true enough to use. So we bought a set of straight gage DT
spokes for around $12.00 and laced the sucker up. Nice and tight, just like
it says in Jobst's book. That was a year ago. Haven't touched the wheel
since.

  --scott
From: tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Colnago double down tube bike.
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:30:29 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

My brother just bought a new Colnago from a bike shop in Chicago.  It's one
of those with the double down tube.  He got it for $1200 with Dura-Ace STI
and the new SPD clipless pedals (Dura-Ace).  Anybody know anything about this
bike?  Apparently the shop is desperate for cash, they've marked all their
bikes way down.
-Terry
From: Alex Brozan <soap@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:13 PST
Subject: Bicycle Trailers?
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1701900001:000:1148
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!soap    Nov 17 14:13:00 1992


From: Alex Brozan <soap>
Subject: Bicycle Trailers?

/* Written  1:14 pm  Nov 15, 1992 by soap@igc.apc.org in igc:rec.bicycles */
/* ---------- "Bicycle Trailers?" ---------- */
From: Alex Brozan <soap>
Subject: Bicycle Trailers?



Hello... I am looking for information or advice on building
a bicycle trailer, that is, one that can be hooked onto the back of
a bicycle and will allow full range of turning and movement, etc.

I have seen several advertised, but they are invariably expensive
I know they are quite common in Europe and other countries, but here
in the U.S., hardly a  bike-frinedly country, they are few and far
between.

I would appreciate any info on how i might go about building on,
what a good design would be, where I can get parts, and
how I can keep the costs low (I was thinking under $200)

I was thinking I could get some wheels and maybe an axle at, say
Sears, and then lumber for the trailer bed, but am wondering how i would
construct the rest of it, ie, the part that would connect to the bike/

Please respond by e-mail as I check these conferences infrequently.


thank you,

alex brozan
tufts university e-house

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Subject: Re: Wheel Failure/Crash/Warranty Question
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:52:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.231957.5034@u.washington.edu>
mattf@cac.washington.edu (Matthew Freedman) is wheeling and reeling: 

>This weekend I was riding down a short drop (maybe 8 to 10 feet), a
>somewhat steep and rocky descent, ... I saw that my front wheel was
>potato chipped.  ... 

The steep and rocky drop-off is the key here, I think.
I would guess that in dropping, the wheel wedged and the lateral
forces collapsed the wheel.  Bicycle wheels are extemely strong when
faced with direct force.  Lateral forces are the achilles heel.

>do I have a reasonable case for getting the wheel rebuilt under the
>warranty?  

Not if it were my shop or if I had built the wheel.

>I haven't gone into the bike shop yet.

Well, go talk to them.  Maybe they won't be as unsympathetic as I,
but then, again, .....




-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: 95njk@williams.edu (Nathan J Kurz)
Subject: Internally Geared Hubs and Hub Brakes
Summary: inquiry about benefits and drawbacks of int. geared hubs and brakes
Keywords: internal geared hubs disc brakes 
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:40:43 GMT

I am planning to spend January designing and building a recumbent, and
really am interested in Internally geared hubs and also in hub brakes.
They sure clean up the appearance of the rear triangle, and look to be
sturdier than their external counterparts.

I was wondering if anyone could tell me (posted, emailed or anything) their
thoughts and hopefully experiences with them, particularly durability,
repairs, and for the geared hubs, efficiency.

Also, who deals in them?  Cyclopedia carries Sturmey-Archer stuff, so
I have seen their specs, but does anyone sell Sachs?  Who else makes
these creatures?

I'd love any info you can give me.

Nathan Kurz			95njk@cc.williams.edu
SU 1760 			(413) 597 - 6951
Williams College
Williamstown, MA  01267

Thanks!

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: geoffo@spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au (Geoff Oakley)
Subject: Re: Hub Generator Sources?
Organization: none
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 03:32:39 GMT

I had a dynohub on a bike I had about 10 years ago.  I ran up about
5,000 miles on it, and it seemed to be fine, but the bike was then
stolen so I cannot tell much more about it wrt durability.  I never
tried to service it.

It had very little drag (maybe half of the drag of a dynapower) and
seemed very reliable in any condition.  On the other hand, it made
it rather harder to get the front wheel off, and I seem to recall that
the power output was limited.  It did one headlight fine, but no more.
(Maybe I was comparing it with the 6v6w side-rubbing generator I had
before.)

geoff o

--

	       geoffo@cse.unsw.edu.au
Geoff Oakley:  CS & E, UNSW, PO Box 1, Kensington, NSW 2033, Australia
	       Phone: +61 2 697 4043	Fax: +61 2 313 7987
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Colnago double down tube bike.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 06:51:18 GMT

In article <BxvIE7.IB8@cs.uiuc.edu> tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:

>The name of the shop is Cycle Smithy, they're in the 312 area code in Chicago,
>I don't know the number but you can get it by calling information at 1-312-555-
>1212.  I don't know if they do mail order but they sound pretty desperate for
>cash so maybe so.  I'd imagine you would have to pay shipping but it's not
>that expensive to ship bikes UPS.

I highly recommend against doing any business with this shop as
a mail-order. The price of the STI DuraAce grouppo with the new
SPD pedals is higher than the price for the completed bike deal.
This shop won't stay in business long.
From: x3420abo@maple.circa.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Majic Motorcycles
Date: 19 Nov 92 18:40:31 GMT
Reply-To: x3420abo@maple.circa.ufl.edu
Organization: University of Florida - CIRCA


	Well, has anyone ever heard of them before?

	Apparently they seem to be on the cutting edge of drive-trains.
Specifically into shaving significant amounts of weight and still
maintaining superior stiffness and durability.  I saw in "Bicycling"
that they have designed a 9-16T rear cluster!  This is in conjunction
with their 26-39T front using their cranks of course, but hey, why
wouldn't you?!

Sorry about misspelling maGic. I hit the wrong key.

Does anyone know what else they make?

Comment, mail, etc welcome...

"You gotta live hard to be hard" Tom Hayes (because in death he did part)
From: ccsdhd@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: How to secure pump to frame?
Date: 20 Nov 92 09:34:42 GMT
Organization: Bath University Computing Services, UK

In the referenced article, joe@ima.isc.com (Joe Chapman) writes:
>Ira Idelson writes:
>>I got a little gadget at my local bike store for ~$1.
>>It is sort of like a pump peg mounted onto a hose clamp type mechanism.
>
>About twenty years ago this was the usual way of mounting a pump.  You
>could also get one with a round metal cap instead of a pump peg--this
>was widely considered to be the more classy choice (unless it obscured
>the Reynolds 531 sticker, which took precedence).
>
>A much more noble gadget than some semi-functional Velcro monstrosity.

True tifosi would also ensure that their pump peg or pump cup was
made by Campagnolo from chromed steel.  It thus matched all the other
Campagnolo equipment on their bicycle.  I think it was part number
648 for the pump peg and part number 632 for the pump cup.  I haven't
seen an example of either of these items for a long while.
-- 
Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK
D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk
From: biegler@castle.ed.ac.uk (R Biegler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Internally Geared Hubs and Hub Brakes
Keywords: internal geared hubs disc brakes
Date: 16 Nov 92 09:18:23 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Nov16.024043.14168@williams.edu> 95njk@williams.edu (Nathan J Kurz) writes:
>I am planning to spend January designing and building a recumbent, and
>really am interested in Internally geared hubs and also in hub brakes.
>They sure clean up the appearance of the rear triangle, and look to be
>sturdier than their external counterparts.
>Nathan Kurz			95njk@cc.williams.edu

I metioned a few days back that both Shimano and Sachs have introduced
7-speed hub gears.  The Shimano won't be available in the UK, though
probably anywhere else (they think a coaster brake wouldn't sell here). 
The Sachs can also take a three speed rear derailleur.  I will get one
for my own recumbent as soon as I find out more about them

Robert Biegler