HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rinehart@aramis.rutgers.edu (Mark J. Rinehart)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: freon Deion
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:13:50 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <70458@hydra.gatech.EDU> tmiller@prism.gatech.EDU (Thomas Miller) writes:

>   Has anyone else out there about had it with Deion's antics?  He's a
> lot like Ross Perot it seems - changing his mind on a whim.  People
> here in Atlanta seem to think he's great, but I don't see how in the
> world he's important enough to fly to Pittsburgh Sunday from his
> Falcons game just to be able to play in the Braves game (if you
> hadn't heard, that's supposedly what he plans to do).  But, I guess
> when you have millions to blow, you can do these things...


Well, he is collecting a salary from both clubs. This looks to me to
be a business decision - and I bet that one or the other of the two
clubs will be picking up the tab for the charter flight to Pittsburgh.
Further, it seems to me that Deion is simply fulfilling his
contractual agreements with both clubs - something that he'd
definitely be slammed for not doing, if that were the case. Give the
guy a break. I say, if he's able to perform and help both clubs, more
power to him, in this age of arrogant, pampered and self-centered
professional athletes. His importance to both teams should be fairly
obvious to anyone who follows pro baseball and football.


Mark
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tomscud@ruf.rice.edu (Thomas Reid Scudder)
Subject: Re: Braves' Destruction
Organization: Rice University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:46:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.193857.1895@cis.uab.edu>, ramer@nrc3d.nrc.uab.edu (K. Ramer) writes:
|> In article <39485@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
|> >In article <1bfu0tINNsgn@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
|> >>In article <Bw37GK.Dt2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mfv23060@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Maurice F. Vallejo) writes:
|> >>>Again pirates 5 , atlanta 0 , 2nd inning.
|> >
|> >>  Didn't Barry jack one in this game? Looks like that choke label might be
|> >>  starting to slip down his neck a little.
|> >
|> >But this game is out of hand - his homer was meaningless.  All
|> 
|> Ah, but it wasn't at the time. It *could* have been the game winner (1-0) Bucs.

Ah, but you see, Barry "choker" Bonds has a similar sort of ESP to Jack
"winner" Morris, and knew in advance that his homer wouldn't make a
difference.  Therefore, it was all right for him to hit it, as it
wasn't TRULY a pressure situation.  B-) B-) B-) B-)


-- 
Tom Scudder                    tomscud@ruf.rice.edu
"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, a half pack of
cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses."
"Hit it."
-John Stuart Mill

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wwedward@descartes.uwaterloo.ca (Wayne Edwards)
Subject: Re: boo jays
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:25:51 GMT

In article <Bw5CIK.69u@mach1.wlu.ca>, bellswor@mach1.wlu.ca (bob ellsworth s) writes:
> 
> let me count the ways i hate you boo jays:
> 
> reason 792: jays fans insist on waving the canadian flag at home/away games
> implying (somehow) that this is a canadian baseball team. WRONG. it is
> an american team. please don't wave my country's flag at you fuckin'
> dome no more.

Apparently, you have some real repressed emotional problems.  Yes, everyone on
the team in non-Canadian.  But the BJs are a Canadian based team owned by
Labatts, a beer company.  How much more Canadian can you get?

>  
> reason 1001: i feel the reason most people in TO (at least) hope for
> this stupid team is because it (somehow) brings american recognition 
> to their stupid city. they (jays fans) get so annoyed when american
> (cbs) announcers do not drool over their stupid baseball team like
> the local (dickhead) commentators do.

It doesn't really bother me what the American announcers say as long as they
don't maliciously put down the Jays for no good reason like they did in the 
1989 and 1991 series.  This year, positive comments were much more
well balanced among the two teams and the negative comments were well justified.
Last year, I swear the CBS announcers were putting down Toronto just because 
they are a Canadian team and not because of their play (although that was 
definitely nothing to brag about). 

> 
> reason 40995: they bought all their good players anyway.

The New York Mets and LA Dodgers "bought" teams just like the Jays but were
never even close to challenging their respective divisions.


Gotta go,
Wayne
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jhg8680@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon  Hamkins)
Subject: Re: Morris: more fuel for this debate
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:05:57 GMT

niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

>In <1992Oct7.182747.6462@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct6.214115.16107@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>>>In <1992Oct6.144116.1656@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:

>OTOH, the one problem with ERA is that it is an average.  A 2.5 ERA is
>great if you consistently allow 2.5 runs per 9.  But if you allow 0 runs
>half the time and 5 runs half the time, you're going to lose many more
>games, given average run support.
              ^^^^^^^

I noticed that you have used the word "average" again.  In deciding
which pitcher you'd rather have, an inconsistent one or a consistent
one, it depends also on whether the run support is consistent or not.
Say a pitcher's RA is 3.5 per 9, and as you say, receives average run
support, which we'll approximate to 4.5.  Suppose an inconsistent
pitcher allows 0 half the time 7 half the time, and a consistent one
allows 3.5 all the time; likewise, inconsistent hitting produces 0 runs
half the time 9 runs half the time, and consistent hitting produces 4.5
runs all the time.  Consider:

P(win) |  Pitching    | Team hitting
-------|--------------|--------------
> .500 | Inconsistent | Inconsistent  (25% chance:shutout win, 25%:9-7 win,
                                       25%: scoreless game, extra innings)
-------|--------------|--------------
  .500 | Consistent   | Inconsistent  
-------|--------------|--------------
  .500 | Inconsistent | Consistent 
-------|--------------|--------------
   1   | Consistent   | Consistent

So, it's better for the pitcher type to MATCH the offense type, either
inconsistent, or consistent.

If the pitcher is worse than average, the P(W) is <.5, .5, .5, and 0,
respectively, so it is better for the pitcher to be of the opposite
type than his team is, so he can achieve the .5 win rate.

Admittedly, the simple model here is that realistic as presented, but I
think it holds up if we went to the trouble of defining realistic
random variables for consistent and inconsistent runs allowed/scored.

Think we can convince more people to include variances with the ERA and
run support stats? :^)

>(This is why I like quality starts.  It tells me how many times the
>pitcher pitched well, which is often more important.  Two excellent and
>one miserable start just isn't as valuable as three very good starts.)

Not so clear.

     ----Jon Hamkins  (hamkins@uiuc.edu)
         University of Illinios
         Urbana, IL
From: 900449f@ace.acadiau.ca (NORMAN THOMAS FERGUSON)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Jays vs. Braves.
Summary: Jays will kick butt.
Keywords: Morris vs. Smoltz
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:25:23 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

I was scanning through some baseball bulletinbs written by everyone out 
there.  Apparently there are a lot of Braves fans. I must admit, the Braves 
are my favorite NL team, but my all-time favorite is the Toronto Blue Jays.  
This is a different story now.  Braves fans, all I can say is wake up.  No 
amount of tomahawk (sp?) chopping is going to win the series for you.  Let 
me give you the world series champions 1992 lineup:
Devon White
Roberto Alomar (1992 AL MVP, Gold Glove, World Series MVP)
Joe Carter (pure power)
Dave Winfield (what can I say)
John Olerud (#1 lefty-he'll burn the Braves pitching)
Candy Maldonado (2,3, maybe 4 Hr's in series)
Kelly Gruber (pure defense)
Pat Borders (cannon behind the plate)
Manuel (a.k.a. Manny) Lee 


Maybe someone out there can give an in depth overview of the Braves.  

Norm Ferguson  Acadia University Nova Scotia
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: OPS by batting order
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:59:18 GMT

In article <steph.718616483@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>The team OPS by batting order caught my eye in the McWeekly.
>
>Batting first:
>
>Cincinnati .825 (Bip Roberts?)
>Boston .573 (!)
>
>Did Boston have Pena leading off?  No wonder they couldn't score any runs.

No, but they would have been better off.  Pena managed a .589 OPS and
.284 OBP.  Probably *better* than the other Red Sox leadoff hitters.
Consider how much time Winningham and Hatcher spent there.  (And the
*most* ridiculous thing is that some people believe Hatcher was one of
the better players on the team.  A LF who bats an *empty* .238.  He
isn't even close to the *worst* of the kids...)

>Batting eighth:
>
>Baltimore .775 (Second only to leadoff spot -- weird)

Not really, when you have Gomez batting there.  Not sure *why* Oates
wanted his third or fourth best hitter batting eighth.  But that's the
way he wrote out the lineup card most of the time.

>Good hitting pitchers are worth about 100 points of OPS, I guess.

Maybe.  Though even good hitting pitchers can't hit .200 over their
career.  (At least most of them can't.)

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
Date: Wednesday, 14 Oct 1992 18:37:19 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: BarryWatch: Where is it?

and, in response to the question of the relation of barrywatch, baywatch
and terrywatch:

barrywatch and baywatch are related in name only.

terrywatch is but a hypothetical son of the deeply innovative barrywatch.
From: x91godo@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: **Baseball Cards**
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:26:04 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

	


	Does anyone know where in the news they talk about baseball
cards?  I was wondering because I collect them and am curious as to
prices and buy,sell.  

				Jason
From: jwc@netx.com (Jeff Comer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: ALCS game 5: Why a day game?
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:56:46 GMT
Organization: The Chaos Bobs

empcomm@empserv.Corp.Sun.COM (Chet Anderson - Emp. Services) writes:
>I just heard that the A's beat the Jays today--why did they play
>a day game?  I thought I was going to get to watch it tonight on
>TV, but noooooo...
>Don't tell me they were afraid to go up against Monday Night Football;
>even then the ratings would have to be better than during the day.

lyle@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Lyle Youngblood) writes:
>    I doubt it actually.  For too many people Monday Night Football is 
>a social, not a sports event.  Even people who don't know anything about
>football go out to the bars which have special food and drink deals.  The
>Series would probably beat out an MNF game, but not an LCS game.  The bars
>themselves are the main thing.  Most of them have huge Monday night regular
>crowds.  They aren't going to risk antagonizing these people by putting
>even one TV on baseball. My regular Monday night bar has four TVs, all
>would have been solidly on MNF except during halftime.  I know.  I wasn't
>aware that game 5 was a day game and tried to check the score during
>halftime. Oops. Notice the Series starts on a Sat so that Mon is always
>a travel day.
>    Also, I doubt ABC would appreciate the competition and the big three
>rarely do things that would lead to competitive retaliation.  It's considered
>wiser to duck each others big events rather than go head-to-head.

In fact this has happened; in 1986, game 7 of Mets/Bosox was delayed until
Monday, when the Redskins visited the Giants. So New York (or at least the
NY Metro area) hosted two big-venue games simultaneously.

As I recall, the TV ratings for baseball were very high in most of the US,
compared with high ratings for MNF in only DC and NY.

The original post on this thread asked why certain games were day games.
The answer is that when you have two LCS's in progress, there will be at
least one day when both play simultaneously. So unless they're concurrent,
one has to go by day.

Now if they would only start a World Series game by day.... *sigh*

-jc
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner kenneth cecil joseph u)
Subject: Re: Morris Season begins Wednesday
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:39:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.092801.16527@access.usask.ca> (Gerry Gryschuk) writes:
>From article <BvpL52.9sB@mach1.wlu.ca>, by brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner kenneth cecil joseph u):
>> As soon as a game gets close, that's when Morris' arm starts to really pick
>> up. This technique of "saving himself" is going to give him about five years
>> longer in the spotlight than the alternative, which is throwing you hardest
>> pitch EVERY pitch.
>> 
>
>IMO Morris is an average pitcher at best although he's pitched better lately.
>
>There is no closer score in a ball game than 0-0. Knowing this please tell
>me why Morris would not want to pitch his best right from the start?

I think I answered that up there in that bit of post I didn't delete to save
bandwidth. Aside from flukes of nature like Nolan Ryan, who has thrown SEVEN
no-hitters and must thus qualify as a kind of pitcher's God, most pitchers
just don't have the kind of endurance it takes to rip their arms off game
after game after inning after inning. I'm curious to know how many starts
Jack has missed in his career. I doubt he has missed many. Know why?
Because he is smart enough not to go crazy, pitching every pitch like it was
his last. All Jack knows is that he can help his team win.

But I bet, after last night, he IS a little miffed at himself. I STILL can't
figure out why Cito didn't call for Ward/Henke/ANYBODY else to pitch the
ninth. No matter how good your starter is, the odds that somebody will burn
him increase with each of his trips through the batting order.


-- 
Ken Breadner	brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (the BREADbox)  ...
Wilfrid Laurier Day Care Centre--oops, University, Waterloo, Ontario
These are my opinions, and all my professors think they are wrong.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: PunisherX@cup.portal.com (M Phil Collins)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Don't Panic Yet
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 92 13:15:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Well I have tix for Game 4 and hopefully that will be the last gave thisyear 
tiThree Rivers Stadium. GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Re: Pittsburg Fans
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:18:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.205339.28310@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com (Glenn R. Waugaman) writes:
>
>In article <92287.090135IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, Thomas Hyer <IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> writes...
>>
>>  In fact, the Pirates would have outdrawn both New York teams
>>*combined* by this inane measure, even if both had sold out every
>>home game.  So?
>
>True, but even with the newspaper strike, in raw attendance the Pirates
>outdrew both the Yankees and the Mets this season (and God only knows how
>low the Yankees' attendance would be if based on actual attendance and not
>tickets sold, as in the NL).  I agree with the original point-- that's
>pathetic support for baseball for a metro area of almost 20 million
>people.  You'd think those teams would come close to selling out in season
>tickets alone, as the LA Dodgers would if they didn't limit the season
>ticket count and reserve tickets on a single-game basis.  But on the
>contrary, the Mets have dropped almost a *million* in attendance in the
>last two years, to be outdrawn even by other bad teams in much smaller
>cities, like Philadelphia. 
>
Philadelphia is the fifth most populous city in the country.  They at least 
had the pleasure of watching a team score a lot and hit a lot, despite the
fact that they lost a lot, too.
Furthermore, the Phillies are SUPPOSED to lose, the Mets were SUPPOSED to
win.  I still love to go see the UTEP miners play football--just on the odd
chance that they win, everybody gets to go home pleasantly surprised!

RStimets
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: NLCS
Date: 15 Oct 92 04:26:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.39538
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego


Wow.

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: barrywatch
Date: 7 Oct 92 01:38:15 GMT

(man on first, two outs)

taken ball, one ball, no strikes
talem ball, two balls, no strikes
taken strike, two balls, one strike
taken ball, three balls, one strike
fouled off, three balls, two strikes
taken ball, walk

0-1, 1 bb, 1 so

by the way, the first "barrywatch" should've included "(none on, none out)".
From: ballm@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: BLUE NOT blew JAYS
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:56:18 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

bblue jays not blew jays bring on the braves or the pirates we dont care
dont care go JAYS
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Equivalent Average: Last 10 Years
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:06:54 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker):
>This is included for reference's sake with my other EQA postings.
>It lists the league champions in EPEQA and EPER since 1982.
>
>      AL      EPEQA           EPER    NL       EPEQA            EPER
>1992  Thomas    .349  Thomas     147    Bonds      .378  Bonds      148
>1991  Thomas    .346  Thomas     142    Bonds      .332  Bonds      128
>1990  HendersonR.378  HendersonR 151    Bonds      .335  Bonds      131

[... etc.]


OK, I'll bite:  how are these things computed?  Some of the names look about
right, but others look very wrong (as in Tim Raines three years running (as
it were), which looks like too much weight on stolen bases).  I'm sure that
you'll get enough interest to justify posting the response.

-- 
       David Tate        |"Out of the dugout endlessly swinging,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | Out of the manager's throat, the sound fundamentals,
 Prof. of Story Problems | Out of the six-month season..."            
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR | 	Walt "Lefty" Whitman
From: rltst3+@pitt.edu (Robert L Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: NLCS Game 7 -- Incredible !!
Keywords: Coulda been a little better -
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:20:59 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


In article <musjndx.719129303@gsusgi1.gsu.edu> musjndx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Jonathan N. Deitch) writes:
>
>What a party !  Definately the best baseball game I've ever seen !

	Am I nuts, or are there any other followers of sports
that find that this was a very exciting, unpredictable game
which was played rather poorly on both sides of the plate?

	Namely :

(1)  Braves load bases w/ no out and come away empty after
Lemke leads off too far from the bag with King playing close
(and don't say it was Dougie's pitching that got them out of
it - the ball got ripped).

(2)  Merced lounging at the first part of his run off first to
get caught at the plate

(3)  Lind's boot(s)

(4)  Smith failing to throw a bender over the plate with a
3-0 count to McClendon (was it McClendon?).

(5)  Leyland being praised as possibly the best manager in the
game today, only to take a nap in the 9th?

	(i)  leaving DD in when he couldn't find the strike
	zone with a hose.
	(ii) putting in Belinda at all (fine if the bases are
	empty - otherwise put in Walk or Patterson)
	(iii) LEAVING him in after Gant jerked him to the wall

(6)  Pinch hitting Sanders at all

	These are only the ones that come to mind (I'm trying
to forget the game).  I would have liked to win the game, but
in a better quality way. 

	Congrats, Altlanta, take them the way you can get
	them, but this shouldn't go down as a good comeback.
	This should go down as a great choke.  2-0 in the 9th,
	and you can't hold a lead?  Change careers.

Oh yeah -
	My oblig Atlanta jokes :

	(1) Q. What's the best part about moving to Atlanta?
	    A. You're the smartest person there.

	(2) Q. What's the most common phrase heard in Atlanta?
	    A. "Stop it Daddy, you're crushing my cigarettes."

	    Sorry.

						-Bill
				(wdsst3@unix.cis.pitt.edu)
From: jfc@athena.mit.edu (John F Carr)
Subject: Re: Boston's outfield
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 18:23:57 GMT

In article <7107@transfer.stratus.com>
	dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:

>I thought Lou and Company had publically kissed off Clark?

I remember the Boston _Globe_ and TV sports reports saying that Clark
would be gone, and Gorman did not deny these reports, but I have not
heard of any official announcement.

--
    John Carr (jfc@athena.mit.edu)
From: peek@wsooti11.info.win.tue.nl (Marcel Peek)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: 1952/1953 World Series
Keywords: baseball, world series
Date: 8 Oct 92 09:59:32 GMT
Reply-To: peek@info.win.tue.nl

Anyone ?
Can anyone tell me who played the world series
in 1952 and 1953 ???

					   Thanks !
					   Marcel Peek
From: mspede@atlas.nafb.trw.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Alas, Pirates
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:02:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: atlas.1450.2add6bd0

In article <15OCT92.15303095@vax.clarku.edu>, hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
> Poor beautiful Drabek, he fought as hard as he could.
> 
> Congratulations Braves.
> 
> GO BLUE JAYS!!!!
> 
> Heather
> HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
> 
> Do you think if Mike LaValliere's arms were just a *little*
> longer, they could have had Bream at the plate...?

  Since you brought it up......... :-)

  I was thinking about the ole "best team is the winning team" arguments.
  Think about how the "best" team was't determined until...
     1) Sid Breams shoe size was determined
     2) LaValliere's arm length was measured
     3) Bonds choked on that throw home (couldn't get it 3 feet closer)
     4) Jay Bell's defensive positioning was off (note: my two year old
        kept me from seeing if Cabrerra's (sp?) hit was a grounder or a
        line drive.  IF line drive, THEN substitute #4 with #4a.
     4a) Jay bell couldn't jump high enough
     etc 

  Fun game too watch !

  Mark
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball