Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Third Reich Glitch???????
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:08:04 EST
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <12AUG199212313525@vxcrna.cern.ch>, casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes:
> In article <1992Aug11.193557.27324@julian.uwo.ca>, allan@gfx.engga.uwo.ca (Allan Flanagan) writes...
>>Hello, 
>> 
>>	I have just started playing 3R recently.  I played the
>>allies and I think I have found a glitch.  I invaded Portugal with
>>the US.  Yes Portugal.  There is no troups in Portugal and it is 
>>a free take.  Spain is an easy next kill and then France ...
>> 
>>My question is:  Is this legal?  This seems quite wierd and I doubt
>>it would ever happen.  The Axis have no real defense of this.  The
>>only problem is that it might delay the retaking of Paris a turn 
>>or two.
> 
> Yes it is legal.  Legal, but not very wise.  First, there are no ports in
> Portugal in 3R.  Therefore any reinforcements have to be landed by invading
> the beachhead...a waste of resources, and also time.  The Germans can intercept
> these reinforcements, whereas if you had a port, you could SR safely.  Also, if
> memory serves, minor countries without forces are not supply sources, so you
> will have to keep supplying yourself by sea until you get to Madrid. 

	Amateurs! :)

	When you invade Portugal, send a 5-6 north to secure a port or two. 
Spain pretty much always uses the cluster defense.  Otherwise invade Spain and
take out Madrid.

> Next, when you declare war on Spain, it could prove difficult to take out in
> one turn.  The Spanish have armor to impede your exploitation, and you will not
> have a lot of air available because of lack of bases and the distance from
> England.

	Lisbon, Gibraltar, a northern port or two.

>  On the turn after invading Portugal, you will have at most 5 ground
> units and perhaps one air unit. This is not enough to overrun Spain.  I suppose

	Another invasion, plus the smart player already has a Spanish port
plus Gibraltar.  Usually the Bealerics also.

> you could invade Spain from the Mediterranean and Gibraltar too, but neither of
> these diversions are likely to take Madrid the first turn either.  Plus, you
> are giving the Axis about a dozen free units.  If you don't take out Spain in
> one turn Germany (and maybe Italy) intervenes and you are really in the shit. 

	Italy?  Italy?  Hmmm, 4 9 factors do the trick, and hopefully they
actually decide to fight.  That way you can blast them and clear the way for an
invasion of Italy.
	Germany usually isn't in a position to intervene meaningfully.  The
more troops they pour in, the bigger bag to trap with an invasion in France to
cut them off.

> Since you have tipped your hand, he will probably be ready with armor and air
> in South France. If they hold Spain long enough, they get its BRPs, and you
> also risk a counter-attack against Gibraltar. 

	Trap them by invading France.

> When you fianlly do manage to take out Spain, what have you really achieved? 

	25 BRPs.  Taken out axis hopes of Spanish minor ally.  You have land
forces on the continent in strength.

> You are farther from Berlin than any other place you might have invaded, and
> now you have a mountain range to get through, plus Vichy France, plus the
> French rivers, plus the German Army.  And besides usually the Germans only have
> a weak defense on the more distant French beaches anyway...why not just invade
> France? 

	German defense of France is considerably easier with a protected (i.e.
neutral) Spanish border.  In addition, with more areas to cover the German
defenses are eithe weakened in other parts of France or on the eastern front. 
A good thing either way.  (Unless Russia is a separate player :)

	By demonstrating your willingness to take out neutrals, the axis player
must now watch previously safe areas.  If you invaded Spain, what about Turkey? 
Yugoslavia?  Etc.

	Even if you simply leave 3-4s on the border and sit on Spain you are
forcing the German player to defend southern France.  Hopefully he tromps all
over Vichy in the process, negating any possible Vichy activation.

> I really can't imagine why you think this is such a devastating move.  The 

	It's just another strategy.

> sole
> exceptions might be if Russia and/or Britain are out of the war and the 
> Germans
> have a vast number of units in France.

	That's precisely the situation where I would NOT invade Iberia.  Much
better to invade Africa in that scenario.

> If you are really determined to go through Spain, I'd recommend DoWing Spain
> and Portugal on the same turn, and hitting Spain from all three directions at
> once (Gibraltar, the Med, and Portugal), without giving the Germans a chance to
> react.  With both Allied airborne in Gibraltar and every Allied armor committed,
> it might fall in one turn.  If it did, you could then SR up to the (presumably
> ungarrisoned) French border the same turn.  Even then, you are a long way from
> your objective.

	Now you're getting the picture.  Portugal falls no matter what.  The
armor always races for Madrid.

Brett                                                      
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