HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: propriety in Pride and Prejudice
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:08:10

In article <C0HEA4.4sF@dunaad.co.uk> ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter) writes:

   In article <JMC.93Jan7015510@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:

   >Miss Austen always shows a high regard for Mr. Bennet.

   Except that she persistently spelt his name as Bennett, don't you think
   that was impolite? or was she just winding him up?

   Alan


   -- 
   Alan Hunter
   Johnson Hunter Ltd
   Isle of Islay, Scotland
   A.Hunter@dunaad.co.uk          fax: +44-496-2336         voice: +44-496-2286

Not in the edition that I have.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: ebroom@amethyst.axion.bt.co.uk (Ed Broom)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Easy quiz answers required
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:45:29 GMT
Reply-To: ebroom@axion.bt.co.uk
Organization: BT Labs
Organisation: BT Laboratories, Martlesham Heath, IPSWICH UK

Could anybody out there help me out with the following questions:

1. In which science fiction world is the university librarian
   an orang-utan?

2. Which "occidental" novel includes a length description of the
   removal of a tree stump?

3. Which Pulitzer-prize winning novel was released as a film in
   May 1992?

4. How many publishers turned down the manuscript for Thor Heyerdahl's
   bestseller "The Kon-Tiki Expedition"?

5. Who was the first English woman to support herself wholly by writing?

6. Tommy Stubbins became the assistant to which fictional doctor?

Answers gratefully received by e-mail, thank you.

Ed Broom

..but smart old Blue he took the Milky Way.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller)
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:11:22 GMT

sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh) writes:

>Hear, hear!  Real "communities" don't flame "newbies" for disagreeing
>with the views and practices of those already there.

     Right as rain.  Real communities lop off their heads, shrink them,
and hang them from the rafters of their lodges.  Big medicine!

                                             -- jf


| James P. H. Fuller, research director        Soil/Water Biology Laboratory |
|                                              Institute of Ecology          |
| work: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu               University of Georgia         |
| home: (crom2 rejoins the bitstream one day)  Athens, GA U.S.A.             |
|             Every woman adores a Fascist.  -- Sylvia Plath                 |
From: laura@acpub.duke.edu (Laura White)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Child molestation & celibacy
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:54:13 GMT
Xdisclaimer: No attempt was made to authenticate the sender's name.

In article <1993Jan11.95736.10154@ms.uky.edu>
fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis) writes:

> But, for the life of me, I can't fathom how a vow of Chastity promotes
> such a practice. 

One theory suggests that since for priests "normal" (i.e. consensual)
sex is a sin, all sex gets kind of lumped together.  Molestation of
children is conceivably considered "not that much worse."

Laura W.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Het Boys (was: Homophobia)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 16:13:09 GMT

                                     Saturday, the 9th of January, 1993

Steve Dyer writes:
  Why doesn't Morris promote his "Liberal" (snort) ideas regarding civil
  rights laws protecting blacks and other minorities?

Oh, but I think I have, Steve.

                   Mike Morris
          (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)
From: spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Homeschooling
Date: 6 Jan 93 00:35:29 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
NNTP-Posting-Host: zion.berkeley.edu

In article <13796@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>Unfortunately, what is taught in schools seems closer to 
>environmentalism than ecology.  One is a science, with the
>requirements of a science for proof and experiment.  The 
>other is a political movement closely akin to the mystical
>movements that set the stage for National Socialist Germany.

This is a very misleading, misinformed  statement.

Environmentalism indeed goes beyond pure science and
into the realm of public policy formulation.  This
does not however make it automatically "mystical".

Environmental questions are challenging and difficult.
Those who aren't up to the level of difficulty
present are  sometimes inclined to stick their
heads in the sand and denounce those who work in
the area.  Fine, but you anti-environmental 
homeschoolers ought to consider that maybe your
children will be a little brighter than you are,
and will want to face the dificult problems you can't face.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields)
Subject: Re: Computers not a substitute for books
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 21:04:47 GMT

>koosman@UTKUX1.UTK.EDU (Toby Koosman) writes:

>>This is a poor defense of technology from my view, demonstrating the sorry
>>pass we've come to on account of sound reproduction technology, in that the
>>normal way to appreciate music is assumed to be, not witnessing musicians
>>playing their instruments before you, but hearing recorded music.  

>>Not that this is analogous to the digitalization of books.

Just an add on to this thought (may or may not have any relevance to this
discussion but I thought it was interesting although extreme).

From The Independent Weekly, a newspaper out of Chapel Hill:
From "The Ribbon of Valor", a Hal Crowther column (regular columnist)
lammenting on getting a computer and getting rid of his "ugly green
Smith-Corona my wife [the lovely and talented Lee Smith] picked up for $10
at a garage sale."

	"Another thing that worries me is that the tendancy of all this
technology - laptop, desktop, electronic bullitant boards - is to make
every writer his own publisher.  Eventually there will be more publishers
than readers, better than a one-to-one ratio between the sources of
information and its consumers.   Besides dilution and a loss of focus,
there will be a tendancy for consumers to eat what they like and ignore
what is nourishing.  In the electronic media, proliferation and democracy
brought us Howard Stern, Rush Limbaugh and 'Studs'."

Personally, I think old Hal is full of shit (his wife, Lee, however, is 
a wonderful human being and writer - I recomend her, especially if you
have the opportunity to listen to her read her work).  The same arguement
has been used to support not letting certain populations learn certain
skills (ie: reading, writing, arithmetic) - it's never held up as an
arguement then and it probably won't now.  Oh well, just goes to show what
people will do to when they want to wallow in self-pity, martrydom, and
being crusty old sods. :)

Oh, he adds, later in his piece, "But triumphant surfers should be warned
that it doesn't matter what share of the information market they control,
or how many billion units of information they can summon at the touch of
the key marked 'Enter.'  They'll be judged by the quality of what they
produce and preserve."

Gee, Hal, thanks for reassuring me of that - I'll sleep better tonight....


Yours in wet fishes and ballroom waltzes,

Joan
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Child molestation & celibacy (was: Paul Johnson (was Paglia)
Date: 12 Jan 93 21:39:53 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1irv0iINNjdr@transfer.stratus.com>, lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann) writes:
> Jeff Davis writes
> >Francis Muir writes:
# ##I thought I had worded this with some care. I am sayiny that enforced  
# celibacy
# ##and and all-male clergy encoureges child molestation. I am not saying that
# ##the Church directly encourages the practise.
# #However you word it, it's still boloney.
# 
# Care to explain why it's boloney (sic)?  Would you care to speculate 
# as to why so many child abusers, particularly of boys, wind up being
# Catholic priests?  True, you find child sexual abusers in all professions
# and in all classes, but the most notorious cases recently have been
# by priests or ex-priests.

They are most notorious because we expect better of clergymen, of
any faith.  By the way, almost any profession that puts adult men
in charge of small children attracts fixated pedophiles.

The number of priests currently involved in such suits, however, does
seem quite high.  Is it as high as .0001% of all Catholic priests in
North America?
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
From: gwangung@byron.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Date: 5 Jan 1993 19:33:10 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: byron.u.washington.edu

In article <JMC.93Jan4235352@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>Bah, humbug.  Science graduates write as well as graduates in English,
>and include far less nonsense in what they write.

	But, John, you're at STANFORD. We're talking about the
Real World here.....




-- 
	"I got into theatre originally to pick up girls. Unfortunately, all I
found were women..."
e-mail:  gwangung@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: troach@netcom.com (Tom Roach)
Subject: Best Scientific terms dictionary? (surprise!)
Keywords: dictionary websters
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:58:04 GMT

I recently started reading Edward O. Wilson's The Diversity of Life. On
page ten (last sentence) I ran into all of the words I have listed
below. Since I didn't know what any of them meant I decided I would look
them up in my reference dictionaries/encyclopedias (Cambridge and Van
Nostrands). As you can see from the table below I didn't have much luck.
Finally I decided I would try my Webster's 3rd International dictionary,
which I hadn't thought would be as likely to define what are obviously
"scientific" words. The results of my search are found below. Does
anyone else want to see what the success rate of their favorite source
of scientific terms would be on these words?  BTW, Mr. Wilson now seems
a likely candidate as the Bill Buckley of the science world.
 
                       [Y = defined  N= not defined]
 
                  Cambridge Dictionary of  Webster's 3rd  VanNostrand
                  Science and Technology   International  Scientific
                     (1988)                               Encyclopaedia
                                                          (6th edition)
 
 
basidiomycete                  Y               Y               Y
 
ponerine                       N               Y               N
 
scolytid                       N               Y               N
 
embiopteran                    N               Y               N
 
zorapterans                    N               Y               Y
 
japygid                        N               Y               N
 
diplurans                      N               Y               N
 
 
 
Tom Roach
 
troach@netcom.com
CI$: 76347,1025
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: RE: Homophobia (really not about  Homeschooling)
Date: 10 Jan 93 15:27:56 GMT
Organization: Clark University

Roger Lustig wrote:

>Go on all you want about guns, but you will never convince me that 
>public education is the Gulag, or that the tax-supported library is 
>another Auschwitz. 

>>>  Sieg heil to you too, pal. 

>>I believe you owe me for that one, Roger. 

>Nope, sorry.  Your attitude is comforting to all those who look for 
>reasons to impose bigotry, bigotry even unto murder. 

In college outside Philadelphia we had a catch-phrase we would use when
discussions got, shall we say, out of hand:

     "How 'BOUT them PHILLIES??"

How 'bout 'em?

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Homeschooling (spp's response to multiple posts)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 05:31:26 GMT

                                    Wednesday, the 6th of January, 1993

Steve Pope writes to me:
  Mike, I'm sorry but you do not impress me at all as
  a person who is "facing the problem squarely". ...

  Of course you're entitled to your opinion on these issues, 
  but from where I sit, what I see is you and other homeschoolers
  being rosily led down the path to rightwing dogmatism,
                                    ^^^^^^^^^
  oblivious to what you're really doing ...

Sorry, no particular response, Steve. I just wanted to
savor this moment.

                Mike Morris
          (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:24501 talk.philosophy.misc:3256
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.philosophy.misc
Subject: Private lives (was re: Paul Johnson (was Paglia))
Date: 10 Jan 93 20:39:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1993Jan10.153907.19166
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <1993Jan9.172310.20841@Princeton.EDU>
roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:

>Well, then, how can we tell?  Or should we, as a rule, even consider 
>the private life of one whose ideas we find interesting?  

Certainly we should, inasmuch as his ideas purport to contain rules
for the conduct of one's private life.

>Or, for that matter, even his *public* life?  Insofar as Heidegger's
>political philosophizing is related to his aspirations vis-a-vis Nazism,
>we should consider the two together.  Is his critique of Aristotle 
>necessarily affected?

Indeed it is, insofar as the singular goal, and the unique litmus test
of all philosophical reasoning is ethics, and insofar as the ethical
reasoning of a philosopher is supported or vitiated by his personal
conduct.  If you should find yourself at a loss for positive examples,
I refer you to Socrates and Spinoza.

>Roger

 
cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Nothing can be said truly of what does not exist."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: scottj@magic.dml.georgetown.edu (John L. Scott)
Subject: Re: Education and the Environment by Gregory A. Smith
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:20:05 GMT
X-Posted-From: iamac-1.dml.georgetown.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1993Jan6.035212.19318@cheshire.oxy.edu>,
athena@cheshire.oxy.edu (Staci Ann Waldroop) wrote:
> You say that the educational system is bad.  I ask you...WHAT ARE YOU DOING 
> ABOUT IT???

For one thing, I am going to ensure that my kids are not damaged by it. 
That will be at least two people of the next generation who got a decent
education.  I think that's a pretty good contribution on my part.

> If you turn away from the system society has set up, then all you
> are doing is burying your head in the sand!  If something is wrong, then you
> should do everything in your power to change it...if you do anything less than
> you have no right to complain.

But by complaining, we are doing something about it.  And you are wrong: we
have every right to free speech, especially free speech of this nature.

> It is not *just* the school system that is at 
> fault here.  Parents must do their part, as I believe mine did (I was reading 
> Dickens for fun and doing research on more than one revolution before the 
> sixth grade...)

And I shall do more than even your parents did.   With parents like yours
and your own intelligence, why did you need school?

>  Even if you keep your kids out of school, you should get 
> involved in your community!  One day your kid's kids might have to go to that 
> school- they might not have the luxery of teaching their kids at home.  It is
> time that the people of this country learn to take responsibility for the 
> world in which they live and the world that they leave for the next
> generation.

Okay, I'll tell you what I do.  I advocate and support a school voucher
system which would allow parents to spend their vouchers on public, private
or home schools, with no restrictions on who may run or teach in a private
school or on how such schools may be run.  I can think of no better way to
improve the schools than letting the free market work.

Now you may violently disagree with those ideas, but I hope that wouldn't
stop you from admitting that I am doing something about the problem.  In my
opinion, every homeschooler, consciously or not, is adding to the cause of
school choice by actually exercising that choice, and therefore, every
homeschooler is doing at least that much (and probably more) to improve the
schools.

It's odd.  You complain some parents, unlike your own, aren't doing their
part in educating their children, yet when some other parents decide to
absolutely do everything in their power to ensure that their children do
get a good education, you accuse them of burying their heads in the sand. 
Homeschoolers do take responsibility--they take *full* responsibility for
their children's education.  How can you ask for more?

--John L. Scott
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Paul Johnson (was Paglia)
Date: 9 Jan 1993 17:13:27 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Jim Kalb writes:

	Mike Godwin writes:

		Does the fact that some priests have been charged with 
		molesting children prove that Christianity's prescriptions 
		are worthless, since the priests were unable to live 
		according to the doctrines they preached?

	If molesting children were characteristic of Christians it certainly
	would tell against the value of Christianity's prescriptions.

It is reasonable that organized religion march more-or-less in lockstep
with the prevailing sytem of Totems and Taboos (great book there...).
At the present time child molestation is a major taboo. I imagine that this
was not always so. It is likely that child molestation by priests is 
encouraged by the Roman Catholic prescription of celibacy and masculinity 
for their clergy. It follows that if the Roman Catholic church is to remain 
a harmonious part of our culture then either they must persuade us that
child molestation is not a BFD, or they must change their House Rules on
priestly celibacy and gender.

						RABworm
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Homophobia (really not about  Homeschooling)
Date: 6 Jan 93 15:25:46 GMT
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Francis Muir writes
>>John Scott writes:
>>	Making such generalizations about homeschoolers is as ludicrous 
>>	as claiming that all Oregonians are homophobes because some of
>>	them supported Measure 9.
>Which is itself as ludicrous as claiming that all those Oregonians who 
>supported Measure 9 are homophobes.

While this discussion probably better belongs in alt.politics.homosexuality, I  
would say anyone who supported Oregon Measure 9 (or Colorado Measure 2) is a  
homophobe.  That doesn't mean everyone in Oregon or Colorado is a bigot, just  
the ones who believe some minority groups don't deserve equal protection under  
the law.  And having seen some of the ravings from the "Pro-9" and 
"Pro-2" groups, I'd be curious how people can support either of these measures  
and not be homophobic.  

I'd be curious to hear a rational argument from someone.  To attempt to connect
this thread to books, the only arguments I hear are 
connected to a book----the Bible.  The arguments usually become "because the
Bible said so." Leviticus also has prohibitions against eating cheeseburgers  
and braiding your hair.  I haven't seen any government measures in this country  
to outlaw either of these sinful acts.  (Aside from the fact that while the  
bits of the Old Testament can be interpreted to condemn male homosexuality, 
it doesn't say anything about female homosexuality anywhere.)

*  In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak *
*  because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I *
*  didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade *
* unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist... *
*Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.*
*  Rev. Martin Niemoeller     [Why to March on Washington in April]  *
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: The Wall Street Journal
Organization: Clark University
Date: 7 JAN 93 18:51:44 GMT

Mark Taranto wrote:

>Incidentally, I've been working on Wall Street since 1985, and with the 
>exception of the book that Heather (obliquely) refers to (yes, there was 
>a book reference), I've never heard anyone on the street use the "big 
>swinging dick" expression. 

But Mark, aren't you closeted in the research office, safely distant from all
the young white men baying for money?

Mary Loveless wrote:

>Somehow, I think Heather coined the term.  

Nope.  If I did, I certainly wouldn't apply it to bond salesmen.  It's from
Michael Lewis' Salomon Brothers memoir, _Liar's Poker_.

>Heather, didn't you also coin the term, Eurodick?  

Yes, that one's mine, feel free to use it as much as you like.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: another Atlanta rabfest
Date: 10 Jan 1993 16:43:10 -0500
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS
NNTP-Posting-Host: emory.mathcs.emory.edu
Summary: ~z

In article <79633@hydra.gatech.EDU>, barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:
> Meg and I, envious of the SF boating jaunt, had our own little rabfest again
> today.  We went to Oxford Books.  We chatted for awhile first and gossiped
> about the rest of the rabble.  Then we hit the stacks.  We each bought a copy
> of _Halo_.  It has a nice cover, Tom.  I haven't started it yet.  We spent a
> good while browsing through fiction and discussing authors we like and dislike.
> Then we checked out the computer books, art books, coloring books, women's
> studies books, cookbooks, calendars, stationery...  It was a delightful 
> afternoon, sans tea.

Upon getting home, I gave _Halo_ to my beamish boy (and
literary guinea pig) to read.  He wrapped himself up in
the comfortor on the couch and did not move, other than
turning pages, for three hours.  When offered supper, he
said, "Um, jusleave it.  I'll get to it later."" High
praise indeed.

Rage away,

meg


-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu		
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books