HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pierson@ggone.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Subject: Re: Stupid (DEAD) people
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:02:00 GMT

In article <722047395snx@uumark.UUCP>, mstoffan@uumark.UUCP (Mark Stoffan)
writes...

>In article <168A18425.R1004@vmcms.csuohio.edu> R1004@vmcms.csuohio.edu writes:

> >      It's a good thing trains run on rails - keeps people from
> > claiming the locomotive swerved to hit them!  (but I'm sure some
> > have anyway!)

>A number of years ago when trains still ran in the middle of Portland's 
>Commercial Street, a little old lady in a big bronze Cadillac refused to 
>yield and drove right into the nose of an Alco switcher which was moving 
>at about 5 mph. Said lady proceeded to exit her banged-up vehicle and 
>yell at the engineer, demanding to know why he didn't swerve.

	Same thing is reported from Boston, where the Green Line (especially)
	still engages in street running.  Some out-of-towners occaisionally
	expect the trol.. errr LRV's, to swerve.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass		01775	pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry)
Subject: Re: Amtrak List of Trains by # (LOOONG) (fwd)
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:17:13 GMT

In article <TML.92Nov16103137@hemuli.tik.vtt.fi> tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist) writes:
>In article <Pine.3.05.9211151945.A26182-e100000@uafhp.uark.edu> plaws@uafhp.uark.edu (Peter Laws) writes:
>    1) Taken from _Amtrak System Train Timetables_, valid through 4/3/93.
>
>     1 Sunset Ltd.             NOL LAX 136 Comb w/21 SAS
>			       ^^^ ^^^
>
>Why does Amtrak use what I assume are *airport* designators for
>stations? Isn't that both stupid, as trains are supposed to compete
>with airplanes, and misleading, as many cities have several airports,
>none of which presumably are as conveniently located as the railway
>station(s)?

You have a valid question, but the answer makes sense (err, sorta).

It has to do with Travel agency Automations systems, Amtrak, and the huge
reservation computer systems that were under development at the time
Amtrak started.  Both were going though a major overhaul, it was decided
to reduce confusion for Travel Agencies (which book though a res system
that "connects" to Amtraks computers.  (For SABRE its **AMK)
Utilizing a single set of codes reduced confusion & obviously made
programmers much happier.


It hasn't become the standard that was envisioned, but for people who
travel its become a defacto-standard.
From: wbrill@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Warren Brill)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:04:34 GMT
Subject: Re: The US Passenger Railroad Gap
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

In rec.railroad, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

> 
> 	This may be old hat to some of you people, but here in the
> United States, we suffer from a severe passenger railroad gap compared
> to some of our economic competitors. I tried to estimate some numbers,
> and I came up with, for the number of intercity trains dispatched a
> day, of:
> 
> Amtrak: 250 to 300
> 
> [approximate count from most recent schedule]
> 
> Europe: ~20,000
> 
> [Thomas Cook schedule: crude estimate]
> 
> 	There are no commuter trains in Amtrak's count, though some
> _may_ be counted in the Thomas Cook schedule.
> 
> 	Even the two schedule books show the rather glaring size
> differential (about a factor of 100).
> 
> 	I think that this would be a great thing for some pol to make
> a fuss about:
> 
> 	How we Americans are suffering from a dangerous Railroad Gap,
> and how we must catch up, no matter what the cost, lest we fall
> hopelessly far behind and lose rather badly.
> 
> 	[in the spirit of other gaps that have plagued Americans, like
> the bomber and the missile gaps]
> 
This is interesting, from an employment point of view. Look at how many jobs
the "missle gap" engendered, as well as ultimately, its effect on the space
program.  Next, look what's happenning now with the attempts at change from a
"peace military" to a "peace...really" economy. Does the word "opportunity"
seem appropriate? If even 10% of companies which ate from the trough called
"military pork" switched to EFFICIENT TRANSPORTATION [read: rail] R&D and
manufacturing, could we catch up to the [insert favorite non-US country which
has "aced" a US industry lately] *************s? Now, what about SHARING
some technology? sacre bleu!
 
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o                                          i---i_________________      o
o    Warren T. Brill, a.k.a.          *----|[|]|  #### #### #### |*    o
o    wbrill@hpxxx.fc.hp.com         i_|___/|___|\________________|_i   o
o    wbrill@hpfcso.fc.hp.com       =++()=()=() `========' ()=()=()++=  o
o                                  =================================== o
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jis@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (jishnu.mukerji)
Subject: Re: More on Bos to Portland, Me rail service
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:47:24 GMT

In article <lgqs4oINNlth@news.bbn.com> rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
>All I know is that these shuttle trains appeared in Amtrak schedules
>until Amtrak left Grand Central last year.   They were called
>something like "Amtrak Station-to-Station Shuttle".
>
>Presumably they did indeed run from Grand Central up the
>MetroNorth New Haven Line to Westchester, then reverse 
>(or is there a wye there?) back to Penn Station over
>the Hell Gate bridge.
>
>The question is:  why did they bother?

Let me shed some light on this shuttle "train" between GCT and Penn
Station in New York. I had taken it several times. It is not the kind
that runs on steel rails. It is a rubber tired vehicle, usually known
as a bus. It used to provide connection to the Lake Shore Limited, the
Adirondack and the Maple Leaf from and to Penn Station. I took it when
travelling from Princeton Jct. to Chicago by the Lake Shore Limited.
At Penn Station the users of the shuttle had to assemble near the
Passenger Service Lounge and then walk up the stairs to the street to
board the shuttle. It dropped off on the Vanderbilt Ave. side of GCT.
In the evening the shuttle could easily be beaten by a subway ride
including a change at Times Square because of the evening rush hour
that the shuttle had to go through. But still it was more convenient
than a subway ride with a pile of luggage.  In any event, the routing
from Penn Station to GCT was up 8th Ave to 42St to Vanderbilt Ave.
Depending on traffic conditions there was considerable variation in
the routing used on a specific run.

Hope this clears up the confusion about the shuttle "train".:-)

Jishnu Mukerji
jis@usl.com


Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cwebster@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Maximum Flatcar Length?
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 14:48:40 EST

What is the longest load that can be carried on a flatcar?  I suspect
it's about 90 feet, but I thought I'd check. (North American standards)
Trailer Train flat cars are, I think, 90'+ a few inches coupler center
to coupler center, at least the "twin-45" cars are.

This information is for a Civil Engineering Bridge Design Class.  We're
doing I-beam girder bridges.  If the beam is long enough, we don't have
to splice it, which is nice.. it makes the calculation easier. :)

Any information will be appreciated.

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: sdejour@mksol.dseg.ti.com (stewart l dejournett)
Subject: Re: Train Master Program
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:25:15 GMT

In article <17582@mindlink.bc.ca> Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:
>> stewart l dejournett writes:
>>
>> I say an ad in the Dec Trains for a computer program called Train Master
>> from Corporate Strategies in Springfield VA.  Has anyone every seen this
>I have seen MANY requests for such info regarding a number of different
>Train-type programs.  Are people replying in E-mail or something cuz I have
>yet to see a review!
>
steve 
    I received 1 reply of someone who had some experience of this program.
This was the third time over a 4 month period I requested info.  The
conclusion must be NO one is buying or using any of these programs.  The
problem I have is that if the price tag was $5-20 then I would not ask
but $80 is too much to throw away on a game you might get tired of in a 
night.

Just my $0.02
stewart
From: 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Stupid People
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:35:45 EST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1992Nov17.194002.17469@wubios.wustl.edu>, derek@wubios.wustl.edu (Derek Morgan) writes:
> On the front page of today's (11/17) Post-Dispatch, there is a story about
> grade crossing accidents: "4 Die in Week; Authorities Cite Lack Of Caution"
> reads the subhead. The police in granite City, IL, just across the river are
> going to "target" the RR crossings and hand out tickets if somebody disobeys
> the signals.
> 
> The place noted is an excellent place to photograph and watch trains; NS, CSX,
> IC, Amtrak, and an occasional Terminal RR job go through on 4 tracks. If you
> hang out for more than 1 train, you will also see some near accidents. The
> accident of the week:
> 
> 28-year pregnant mother drives around crossing gate to wait for train to pass
> on far track. In gaining these precious 10 yards, which will save her an
> enormous amount of time, she fails to realize that the gate now behind her
> has a purpose; an oncoming train hits her car. She is in critical condition;
> her three children in the car with her were also injured.
> 
> She has been unable to comment on her proud, defiant stand in the face of the
> oncoming frieght. Her family is preparing to take legal action against the
> engineer, saying that since he saw the car on the tracks, he was negligent in
> not stopping the train.

Man, can you believe some people. Oh yea, I seen that car up there 1500 feet
ahead, I'll just stop this 10,000 ton loaded coal hopper train on a dime
so she can wait for the other train.

stupid part is, knowing the courts, she'll probably win :^(

Fred
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:9039 ba.transportation:2702
From: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: SFO rail transit setback?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 21:58:04 GMT
Organization: lbl
Distribution: ca
Reply-To: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.154
Keywords: Kopp SFO BART CalTrain

In article <1992Nov18.182856.3791@news.columbia.edu>,
brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) writes:
|> I've been following this SFO thread for a while (yes that "ca"
|> distribution has reached the East Coast!).  One thing puzzles me.

Only one thing?  We've got to try harder....     :)

|> Why do voters in San Francisco alone get to decide anything about (a)
|> an airport in San Mateo County and (b) use of regional transit funds?
|> What's the deal?  I'm guessing maybe the City owns the airport itself,
|> but I still don't get it. 
|> 
|> --Joe Brennan

You are right that the city owns the airport.  As it turns out,
the City and County of San Franciso (one entity) owns the airport,
and in fact is the largest landowner in San Mateo county (maybe
even more than San Mateo County itself owns--not sure).

I'm speculating here, but suspect that it is airport $$, not regional
transit $$, that the ballot measure would be about.  It wouldn't
require that BART go into the airport garage, but would prohibit
the people mover being built.  In principle, BART could not go to
the airport garage AND no people-mover built.

The whole thing might be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Bruce Nordman
B_Nordman@lbl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Subject: Re: Stupid People (Grade crossings)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 19:53:01 GMT

> Peter V. Mason writes:
>
> BTW, boneheads along the SP cut along Mission going east from LA
> used to throw rocks at the trains.  Since they were about eye-to-eye
> with the cabs, they managed to prang a couple of engineers.  Does this
> happen elsewhere?


Yup...

I had my entire side window shattered one time about two in the morning as we
went past a beach party.

Course, it does not shatter, it just "webs"...(dunno if that's the best way
to describe it :-)


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  The Great White North in
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []   Vancouver, BC, CANADA
From: 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Air whistles (was Scaring away meese)
Date: 23 Nov 92 10:17:25 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1992Nov19.191700.19046@pbs.org>, btiffany@pbs.org writes:
> In article <1992Nov17.063705.18132@bony1.bony.com>, billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
>> In article <1992Nov15.070123.8912@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN) writes:
>>>In article <6km8TB2w165w@1776.COM> bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
>>>>CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:
>> 
>>> At least one disel railway had whistles instead of horns. When absorbed
>>>into the Soo Line, all of the locomotives on the Minneapolis Northfield
>>>and Southern had air whistles. As the engines were absorbed and
>>>repainted, the whistles came off. A couple of these whistles are now in
>>>use by the Minnesota Transportation Museum on an NW2 and an SW1200. Oh,
>>>btw, the whistles fit the same mounting brackets as the normal air horns.
>> 
>> 
>> The New Haven FL9's had Nathan Air Whistles.  Some of their other
>> diesels many have had these too.
> 
> I believe they were Hancock air whistles, Bill.  They were on lots of NH
> engines, not just FL9's.  SAL also had them, possibly ACL as well.
> 
> -- Bruce Tiffany
The Notre Dame & Western (on campus of Notre Dame) has a little Porter engine,
with a whistle on it, and also, a big Steam  engine type bell one end (It's a
centercab type engine) There is a picture of it on page 389 of The Second
Diesel Spotters Guide.
Fred
From: jps@dworkin.wustl.edu (James Sterbenz)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: aus.rail update
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:37:49 GMT
Organization: Washington University,  St Louis MO

In article <1992Nov13.082213.28010@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au> eoliver@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Eddie Oliver) writes:
>In article <1992Nov13.014546.13363@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> brom@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (David Bromage) writes:

>>Here is the breakdown:
>>		FOR	AGAINST
>>Australia	15	2
>>USA		3	2
>>UK			1
>>New Zealand		1
>>Singapore	1	
>>Switzerland	1	
>>		----------
>>TOTAL		20	6

>>I think these results speak for themselves.

>For once I agree with you! They speak for themselves in demonstrating that
>you can only identify 26 people who are even taking enough interest in the
>matter to be bothered communicating with you about it (and when you
>remove yourself, it's not even 26).

>A number of people have communicated with me also (more than on your list).
>Needless to say, they have been opponents. Don't you think your sampling
>process is somewhat biased?

OK, I'm one of those people that has remained silent until now.  I'm 
AGAINST this.  I wasn't going to worry about it until a formal discussion
and vote through news.groups.

I'm for sensible namespace splits (and I don't think this is regardless
of the following...), but I really enjoy the international
flavor of some of these threads.  Will an aus. group (this is on an
Australian backbone?) get gatewayed to a rec.aus. group?  It would
really be ahsame if this would make the discussions about railroads 
down under inaccessable to us in North America.







--
James Sterbenz  IBM HPCC       (High Performance Computing and Communications)
                472 Wheelers Farms Rd. MS93           jpgs@watson.vnet.ibm.com
                Milford CT 06460-1844 USA                      +1 203 783 4380
From: wolfgang@nosc.mil (Lewis E. Wolfgang)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Why do GE's "Chug"?
Date: 17 Nov 92 02:09:02 GMT
Reply-To: wolfgang@nosc.mil
Organization: NCCOSC, NRaD Division

In article 11555@athena.mit.edu, jcarnold@athena.mit.edu (John C Arnold) writes:
>	Does anyone have any thoughts on the exhaust note of GE's 
>engines? They seem to have a distinct "chugging" sound, particularly
>at low speed. The problem I have is that the chugs seem to be too 
>infrequent, coming on the order of once (maybe several times) per
>second, whereas the exhaust pulses from a four cycle V-16 at
>a few hundred RPM (idle) should come 30-50 times per second. I have
>also noticed that both the U18's and C424's in our area have 
>a more rapid exhaust note than the big boats.
>

Hm, could it be governor hunting?  Perhaps one injector being 
adjusted too "rich", so that it's cylinder is the only one you
hear?  How about the configuration of the exhaust manifold?  Maybe
the cylinder closest to the end is the one you hear.  I had an
old Buda diesel in a fishing boat that had this characteristic.

I know that you can manually overide a single cylinder's injector
on our Alco RS-2 and you can then hear it chugging to beat the band!
Since that one overloaded cylinder is outputing more power than the
other cylinders, the governor shuts them down and you can't hear
them at all.

				Good Iron,
				Lewie
				wolfgang@nosc.mil
				San Diego Railroad Museum
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ajw@squid.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Waugh)
Subject: Re: Vandalism
Organization: CSIRO, Division of Information Technology, Melbourne
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 21:32:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.021144.7958@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> agrcjb@ee.latrobe.edu.au (Chris Bell) writes:
>On its second trip, someone threw a tin of blue paint over the loco,
>probably from one of the overbridges.  The loco was running tender first, 
>and the tender copped most of the paint, right over the right-hand side.
>
>Vandalism to the local electrics is one thing (and their is plenty of it
>on the Hurstbridge line)...

As I said to the official supervising the shunting at Heidelberg
afterwards, they were lucky they weren't throwing stones. There seems
to be one or two cretins on this section of line who enjoy throwing
things.

I was in a suburban train approaching Macleod (on the same section of
line) recently when someone -- probably the same someone -- threw a
stone right through a window. I looked up to see a cloud of glass sweep
through the other end of the carriage. Fortunately the glass is
safety glass which doesn't have sharp edges and mostly stays in the
window. But it still gave a nasty shock to the people sitting at
that end of the carriage.

I've been in other trains when a loud 'bang' indicated that something,
presumably a rock, had hit the steel sides of the carriage and not
the window.

From the splatter marks on the tender of K153, it appeared that the
engine was running tender first when the paint was thrown. If a
rock had been thrown, one of the engine crew could easily have
been injured. The windows on the rolling stock used (traditional
wooden bodied cars) is, I believe, just normal glass (David would
know...). A stone through that doesn't bear thinking about,
particularly as the train was full of small children.

The sooner they catch those bastards, the better.

andrew waugh
From: plaws@uafhp.uark.edu (Peter Laws)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Email for Anti-Airport Groups??
Date: 23 Nov 1992 12:39:10 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

	Does anyone have Email address(es) for any (reasonable) anti-airport
groups?  
	A group of businesspeople in this area are well on their way to
getting a "regional" airport for NW Arkansas.  There are many in the
area that don't believe that this is rational transportation planning and
it would be nice to "network" with others fighting the same fight.  
	BTW, the price tag is set at ~$150 million.  Not bad for a 2 county area
with a population of barely 200,000. (Tell your Republican politicians!)

	Please respond by Email, since this is only tangentially related to 
steel wheels/steel rails...

Peter Laws              |"The '90s are gonna make the '60s|plaws@uafhp.uark.edu
n5uwy@ka5bml.ar.usa.noam| look like the '50s"  --D. Hopper|plaws@uafsysb.bitnet
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Vandalism and stone throwing
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:25:03 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

ah yes "Cowboy" the mad conductor, this is the guy that used to explore
abandoned right-of-Ways with a 4-wheel drive truck at NIGHT!!.

That is until he went out on a timber trestle and found that half of it was 
gone when the front axle of the truck dropped.  Nobody hurt and the
supports for the snowplow kept the truck from sliding off the trestle.

Took them about 4 hours (in the middle of the night) to jack and winch the
truck back on the trestle.

to jack the front the had to lie on their stomachs in the cab and reach down
to work the jack. and the to winch the truck back the had to craw out on to
the roof of the truck and climb off the back of the truck.


UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!hudson
INET: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org
ICBM: Lat. 44.59 x lon. 93.13
HAM:  N0NMX  444.100 repeater
Advertisement: Try the Railway Post Office BBS (612) 377-2197 a Railfan BBS
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,wny.general,ny.general,cornell.general
From: parmelee@cs.cornell.edu (Larry Parmelee)
Subject: Thanksgiving Dining Train
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: ny
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:41:19 GMT

The Tioga Central and NYS&W Rail Roads will have a Thanksgiving
Dinner Train leaving from Cortland NY at 5:30pm on Thanksgiving
day.  For reservations or more info, call (607) 687-0990.

There will also be "Santa Claus" trains on Saturday November 28th,
leaving from the Marathon NY Station at 10am, 11:30am, and 1pm.
For more info, call the above number.

-Larry Parmelee
parmelee@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Ghetto Grills
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:20:10 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

stevray@stsci.edu (Don Stevens-Rayburn) writes:
> The 1960s were a more innocent time.  There were not many incidents of peo-
> ple deliberately trying to kill or maim railway workers in the Canadian 
> prairie.

In those days the Boston commuter trains had a lot of trouble with young
punks throwing rocks and bottles at the trains, putting iron bars across the
tracks, etc., etc.  If anything, it was worse then than it is now.  Maybe
the penalties were less severe then.  Massachusetts was very slow to treat
any form of vandalism as criminal behavior.  Until 15 or 20 years ago, even
car theft wasn't a felony unless the car was deliberately destroyed or ended 
up in a chop shop.

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
From: atrw0176@cellar.org (Atrw93)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: AMTK SW-1's
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:39:15 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system


Has anyone on the net know the heritage of Amtrak's

remaining fleet of SW-1's 730-744 series.

Any info posted or e-mailed will be most appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

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