HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:09:40 EST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         gallagherj@SATURN.GLASSBORO.EDU
Subject:      RE: Clinton's School Choice

Peter:
I also asked if anyone knew of the situation in the DC
schools. We received no response here. However, I would expect
that if Chelsea had been assigned to a specific public school which
was "safe" rather than the one she would attend because of the
geographic location of the White House, there would have been shouts
of "special" treatment or similar cries that it was unfair. In fact,
it would be tantamount to "choice" in the public schools. Would
other parents in the DC schools have an equal opportunity of choice in
sending their children to a "safer" school?

I think that it is a no-win situation for the Clintons. I stand on my
previous posting regarding their situation.
John V. Gallagher
School of Education and Related Professional Studies
Rowan College of New Jersey

GALLAGHERJ@saturn.rowan.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:30:44 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         U56E3@WVNVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Parents, School, and Government

Michael Hines says parents have the responsibility to provide the highest-
quality education affordable to them.

Michael--are you confusing schooling and education?  And what if the correla-
tion between cost and education (not schooling, necessarily) is quite low,
as I expect is the case?

CRAIG HOWLEY, ERIC/CRESS, P.O. BOX 1348, CHARLESTON, WV  25325
1-800/624-9120
From: 72460.3000@COMPUSERVE.COM (peter lau)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Subject: RE: Clinton's School Choice
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:28:20 GMT
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.

John:  You must have been sleeping when you took Logic in college.

Clinton advocates public school improvement, and took pride in the fact that
Chelsea attends public school in Little Rock (by no means a small town USA,
as someone else said on this net).  He used that in his campaign.  Had he
not flaunted this issue during the campaign, there would have been no issue
here.

Now, had he advocated improving the lot of the homeless by sleeping amongst
them, and talked about how he and Hilary stayed in a homeless colony in
Little Rock, and how that led to the elimination of homelessness in Ark.
And then went to D.C. and stayed in the White House instead of a hut outside
Union Station, then I would have raise the same concern (although perhaps
not at EDPOLYAN, but some homeless bitnet network).

By the way, while I don't know too much about DC schools, I don't think that
every DC public school is overrun with drugs and guns and gangs.  There must
be at least 1 or 2 relatively safe junior and high schools in DC.  Even here
in L.A., there are many very good junior and senior high schools.

peter lau
uc riverside
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:13:24 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         Michael G Hines <HINESMG@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: What is school for?

[Interesting Fred/Mario examples deleted to conserve bandwidth.]

>The solution to date in the P.S. seems to be Mario's solution -- take
>the teaching of religion and religious values out of schools.  (I
>think the U.S. Supreme court has ruled that displaying the 10
>commandments in a public school now violates the separation of church
>and state, as an example.)  This of course is totally contrary to
>Fred's concerns, and results in a dilemma that cannot be solved in the
>public schools.
>
>(By the way, this might explain why the homeschooling movement is
>dominated by religious people.  Like Fred, the public schools teach
>the opposite (in terms of religious values and the place of religion
>in one's life) of what these parents believe, so they must opt out of
>public schools and, as a result, choose homeschooling.)
>
>Alan Ogletree
>Houston, TX

I'm not arguing the Ten Commandments, although in my personal opinion
they would not hurt.  The argument is to teach and display character
valuable to all children, of any religion or not.  I don't think that
responsiblity, attentativeness, etc. are on the order of having a
particular denomination.  As an adult what happens when you don't pay
attention is you put you foot in your mouth, you make appologies to
those you've offended, and you hopefully learn to become attentive.
The end result either way is you learn to be attentive.  Why not
give children the opportunity to develop that type of character.

**********************************************************************
*                         Michael G Hines                            *
*    Student of Computer Information Systems at Purdue University    *
*                      hinesmg@vm.purdue.edu                         *
*                         hinesmg@purccvm                            *
**********************************************************************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA
X-Envelope-to: edpolyan@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"edpolyan@asuacad"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:24:00 EST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         HEWITJS@SNYPLAVA.BITNET
Subject:      inclusive teacher ed

Last time I ran this message I got no responses, but it was early in January and
    many folks may have on break.  Regardless, here it is again:
        We are working toward an inclusive teacher ed program here at SUNY
Plattsburgh.  Are looking into the programs at Syracuse and William & Mary, but
   would like to hear from anyone who knows of another college/university where
   a
teacher education program for both elementary and special education majors is
in place or in development.  One curriculum for all who want to teach in
elementary schools, with subsequent eligibility for certification in both
elementary and special education.
Thanks in advance!
Scott Hewit
hewitjs@snyplava
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: SCHOF
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:31:00 EST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         SCHOF@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Post-doc position

POST-DOCTORAL POSITION AVAILABLE


Post-doctoral Research Associate to assist full time in the study
of the social and educational impact of computer networking in a
large urban school district.  The position requires a broad range
of methodological skills, including knowledge of questionnaire
design, interviewing techniques, and case study techniques. A strong
background in social psychology, sociology, policy studies, or
evaluation research with an emphasis on educational issues is desirable,
as is experience in working in schools or other complex organizations.
Writing skills are essential as are initiative, independence, and
the ability to work harmoniously with others. This two-year position
is available immediately, pending finalization of contract negotiations
with the funding agency, NSF. Recruiting will continue until a suitable
candidate has been found. The stipend is $25,000 per year.  Interested
candidates should send a vita and a letter summarizing their
qualifications for the position AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.  Three letters
of recommendation should also be sent as soon as possible to:
Professor Janet W. Schofield, 816 Learning Research and Development
Center, 3939 O'Hara Street, University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, PA
15260 (e-mail SCHOF@PITTVMS).
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:51:00 EST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         PLISKA1@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: inclusive teacher ed

I DON'T KNOW WHO IS DOING THIS TYPE OF PROGRAM, ELEM/SPED, BUT LESLEY COLLEGE
IN CAMBRIDGE, MA IS ALWAYS INNOVATIVE IN PROGRAMS AND ONE MIGHT SEE WHAT THEY
ARE DOING THERE WITH THIS CONCEPT.  NOT A COMPLETE ANSWER BUT A SOURCE OF
KNOWLEDGE TO CHECK OUT.
-AMP, UPITT--
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:56:00 EST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         PLISKA1@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject: Re: What is a school for?

Character is caught not taught!  Modeling the behavior in our own lives and
dealing with the healing aspects of affirmation are the best ways of helping to
build character in children.  Many school Guidance programs have tried to teach
self-esteem and character but, in the long run, what the children see and hear
in the adults around them is what will influence character.

Ann
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:53:14 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         JFCOVALE@SUVM.BITNET

I am just listening to an NPR report on California elementary schools (San
Jose?) where the children participate "shooting drills" and "play dead drills".
The pojnt of the latter is that if a child is caugfht on the playground during
teh gunfight and can not get into the building, falling to the ground and
staying VERY still might pervent her from getting shot.

Now, while Clintons' decision to treat Chelsea as though they were her parents
is a disappointment to many of us who support public schools and a delight to
many of us who hate the thought that Bill Clinton is President, I would like
to offer a modest shift of perspective: the question is not where the
Clintons (or any one of us) chooses to send our children.  That is an
interesting conversation (private realm), but not (by definition) a public
social policy.  The policy question is what we are willing to do, collectively,
for those schools where we do not send our children, in neighborhoods where
we do not live.  I can accept the fact that my children are, in fact, more
inportant to me than yours; but I think I should feel shame if your were of
no importance to me at all.  As several people pointed out, if Chelsea had
gone to a public school, that school would have become (had it not already been
so) quite good, quite quickly.  And if that were to count as "improving public
schools", that would be closer to what I would call hypocrisy.

All of us who have children, I assume, try to make decisions that result in
their receiving the best education we think we can get them (however we
define "good" and "education").  That hardly counts as a public education
policy.  What are willing to do for children whose parents can not (will not?
do not?) make wise or good choices for their children?  As a society will we
continue to accept the continued existence of separate and unequal schools as
described by Kozol, penalizing those of our children who are foolish and
unwise in their choice of parents and neighborhood?  If so, what does that
say about us as a people; if not, what can we do?  I take those as policy
questions.


****************************************************************
*                                                              *
*                    John F. Covaleskie                        *
*      Cultural Foundations of Education and Curriculum        *
*  259 Huntington Hall                                         *
*  Syracuse University                 Maloff Towers, #2       *
*  Syracuse, NY  13244                 Chittenango, NY  13037  *
*  315/443-3343                        315/687-5595            *
*                   JFCOVALE@SUVM.BITNET                       *
*                                                              *
****************************************************************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Acknowledge-To: <DCHRISTO@PURCCVM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:12:56 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         "Dorothy J. Christoff" <DCHRISTO@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Trivia question
              20 Jan 1993 11:40:57 EST from <72460.3000@COMPUSERVE.COM>

On Wed, 20 Jan 1993 11:40:57 EST peter lau said:
>Who is this famous American?  Hint:  He was born in 1946.
>
>William Jefferson Blyth
                        ^
I believe it was spelled "Blythe" and, as someone already pointed out, he
is now known as Bill Clinton.

However, a related question (I don't know the answer to this) is:

 Was it "William Jefferson Blythe III" or "William Jefferson Blythe IV"?

Usually reliable sources (World Almanacs, Who's Who, etc.) give conflicting
answers.  Does anyone know which it actually was?  (Since there ARE
conflicting sources, if you post an answer, please post your source...)

- Dorothy Christoff               O O O o o o o . . . . .
  Purdue University              O    =======
  DCHRISTO@PURCCVM.BITNET        Y__'_|_|_|_| --++++++--
  DCHRISTO@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU      |__|_|  P  | | PURDUE |
  (317) 494-5485                {|____|_____|:|________|
  (317) 494-0587 FAX             /oo-----OO     oo  oo
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"edpolyan@asuacad.bitnet",IHLENKM
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:44:00 CDT
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         Kay Ihlenfeldt <IHLENKM@MACC.WISC.EDU>
Subject:      Great Books

TThose following the discussion of great books may be interested
iin the DPI's staff reading group.  The first book on their agenda is Savage
Inequalities.  Some of the other titles suggested for group
discussion include:

     America's choice: high skills or low wages.
     We've all got scars: what boys and girls learn in elementary
school.
     Smart schools, smart kids: why do some schools work?
     The Quality school.
     Tech Prep Associate Degree: a win win experience.
     Keeping track: how schools structure inequality.
     Reinventing government.
     The fifth discipline --- the art and practice of learning
organization.
     Empowerment through multicultural education.

In addition, you may be interested in a publication called Core
List of Books and Journals in Education by Nancy Patricia O'Brien
and Emily Fabiano.  It was published by Oryx Press in 1991.

Kay Ihlenfeldt, DPI Professional Library  (608) 266-3108
Dept. of Public Instruction, P.O.Box 7841, Madison, WI  53707
Internet:  ihlenkm@macc.wisc.edu
Bitnet:    ihlenkm@wiscmacc
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"EDPOLYAN@asuvm.inre.asu.edu"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:58:09 -0600
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         FSMITH@CHARLIE.USD.EDU
Subject:      RE: great books

How about
French, MArilyn.  Beyond Power, Men Women and Morals
Katz, Michael.  The Undeserving Poor
Cose, Ellis.  A NAtion of Stragers.
Ferguson, MArilyn.  The Aquarian Conspiracy
Marquez, Gabriel Garcia.  Love in the time of cholera.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:10:41 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         U56E3@WVNVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: What is a school for?

Jonona--part of the dilemma of public/private, sacred/profane is that all
we appear able to reach (operant) consensus on is teaching the ethics and
values of job-holding.  It won't do as a means (or reason) to hold us to-
gether, and parts of our individual persons even fly off in opposite direc-
tions.  Even presidents can't escape.

CRAIG HOWLEY, ERIC/CRESS, P.O. BOX 1348, CHARLESTON, WV  25325
1-800/624-9120
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: in%"edpolyan@asuacad.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:46:00 CDT
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         "John O. Wong" <JOHNWONG@MACC.WISC.EDU>
Subject:      Correction on date

Sorry, folks.  I believe I made a mistake on the date of the NYT article on
Stuyvesant and Syracuse.  Today means 1.25.93.


                                    # John Wong (608)263-3025
                                    # johnwong@wiscmacc.bitnet
                                    # johnwong@macc.wisc.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:39:00 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         SSOIFFER@CLARKU.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Survey regarding campus smoking policies

For Clark University, Worcester MA:
No to every one of the questions.
We are already a smoke-free campus, so it's hard
   to figure out what else to restrict, nor have we much
   else that still needs to be considered.

Steve Soiffer
Clark Univ.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 08:04:28 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         TJPUGH@SUVM.BITNET
Subject:      fed. research

    "What should be the federal agenda for education research in
the next decade? Where should the priorities be placed for
educational research and development? Where should OERI (the DOE
Office of Educational Research and Improvement) put its money?"


   I believe OERI is already working on trying to improve
information dissemination.  This seems a good priority.  I
would add selection to dissemination.  I realize there are
and always will be concerns with who gets to determine
what is worthwhile, and I am not sure how to address those
concerns.  But as it now stands there is a veritable flood
of information, much of it confused and confusing.
   The audience for dissemination would vary.  Attention
ought to be given to providing convenient access to
research for K-12 teachers and administrators.  The
format should emphasize brevity and clarity (not from
condescension, but in recognition of competing time
demands).

   A "white paper" series might be useful, the idea being
to survey current and existing work and identify areas of
need.  It might be similar to the Review of Research in Education
in idea, if not in execution.  Perhaps different formats
could be prepared for different audiences, one for researchers,
one for media, one for practitioners.
   Instead of urging the greater accretion of more "stuff"
I guess I am first concerned with taking stock of what we
already have and making it available an accessible to as
wide an audience as possible.
  As for specific research projects, I would like to see some
funding of research into:
  1. a host of issues related to rural schools including those
surrounding school and district centralization.  In particular,
arguments for economies or dis-economies of scale, equity, and
quality.
   2. the impact of federal legislation and funding on a
variety of pedagogical, institutional, and curricula levels.
   3. the relationship between public k-12 education and
American business strength in an international market. (I
confess that I include this last one out of conviction that
it is almost nill, and I am rather tired of the schools being
the scapegoat of business.  But I'm open to being proven wrong.)
   4. sustaining longitudinal data bases like High School and Beyond.
Projects of that size and continuity can only be conducted with
federal support.

* * * * * * * * * * * *
Tom Mauhs-Pugh
Cultural Foundations of Education

259 Huntington Hall         TJPUGH@SUVM.BITNET
Syracuse University       TJPUGH@SUVM.ACS.SYR.EDU
Syracuse, New York
             13244        (315) 443-3343
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:29:47 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         U56E3@WVNVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Outgoing and Incoming Presidents ...

Yes, Lee Wolfe, let's get on to other matters.  If hypocrisy is merely
inconsistency (as some posts suggest), then perhaps human existence is
hypocritical.  Hypocrisy, however, has more to do with espousing pretended
beliefs loudly, while privately (often secretly) and massively acting in
accord with a completely different set of values.  Charges of hypocrisy
against Clinton on this issue are clearly unfounded.  No more posts from
me on this issue, Lee.

CRAIG HOWLEY, ERIC/CRESS, P.O. BOX 1348, CHARLESTON, WV  25325
1-800/624-9120
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:33:43 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         Michael G Hines <HINESMG@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: What is a school for?

>Character is caught not taught!  [Additional comments deleted].
>
>Ann

Character can be taught.  But as Ann clearly points out, the only thing
you will teach without example will be hypocracy.

Good point on discipleship method of teaching, you teach and you show
with your life.

**********************************************************************
*                         Michael G Hines                            *
*    Student of Computer Information Systems at Purdue University    *
*                      hinesmg@vm.purdue.edu                         *
*                         hinesmg@purccvm                            *
**********************************************************************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11t]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:25:59 MST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         Roger Wilson <rwilson@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject:      Re: school choice and clinton
              93 9:44 pm

Anne Pemberton writes of Peter Lau:

>Peter, If this is an example of your brand of logic, it's
>apparently over-rated. I think I'll continue to build my
>opinions from facts.
>
>Useful logic requires us to look at facts not swill in
>symbolism.
>While he was looking after
>the schools his daughter would go to, Reagan and Bush
>back in DC doing nothing but kicking the DC and other
>public schools around in the press to justify squandering
>the funds needed for education on S&L's, Contras, and
>other military and political boondoggles.


Might I point out to Anne, that the latter is no more FACT than
the opinions of Peter Lau. They are but HER opinions. While I
might agree, I would suggest that political perspective affords
her a different view of the situation than say the Republican
faithful. Don't tell me facts speak for themselves otherwise that
debate will start all over again.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU