From: damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos)
Subject: Re: Compiling list of people who have done WRONG
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 17:08:45 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na

jamie@access.digex.com (James Treworgy) writes:
>Wrong.There are publicly available lists of people who have written unresolved
>bad checks, completely legal. Have you ever heard of comchek, or written
>a check at a major store? They validate it through a national service
>before accepting it, or look your name up in an in-store list, usually gotten
>through a similar service. They even do this at the post office. It's a credit
>screen, and while it may be big brotherish, it is in very widespread use.
>You can also pull up anyone's credit rating with the appropriate connections..
>they do it when you try to get an apartment, or a credit card, or a loan.
>Accepting a check is like giving credit.  Presently there are no laws
>protecting the privacy of people's credit ratings.  And since mail fraud is
>a significantly greater crie than writing a bad check (and since it usually
>involves it) I see no illegality in keeping a list of people who have
>commited mail fraud.

this is all fundamentally correct but it still misses the point.

Comcheck and the credit institutions are *corporations* that follow
specific guidelines and collect hard evidence (cancelled checks that
bounced, missed payments on revolving credit accounts) before putting
a "black mark" next to someone's name.

what do we have here? Ian Immature screams "Phil Phorsale screwed me! 
he promised to sell me something and i still haven't gotten it". So
Lonnie Listmaker puts him in his little Witchhunt Database as a 
Scumwad, and posts it to the net with subject line "DON'T BUY FROM THESE
PIGS". A week later, Ian Immature posts a teeny followup (under the
subject line "oops") saying, "sorry, i got my stuff, UPS screwed up and
delayed the hardware in transit". Lonnie Listmaker fails to see this 
post, and Phil Phorsale doesn't check up on usenet for a couple of
weeks, so his name remains slammed for quite some time, unjustly and
unfairly.

Then there are all the "Roger StealthBoy"'s and "Captain Virus Death"'s
who would have no problem making anonymous posts claiming they were
screwed in some deal, probably to get back at one of those "jerks"
who made the mistake of pointing out how woefully lacking their 
knowledge was about some technical topic.

The problem is that this little Witchhunt List will be based entirely
and totally upon *hearsay evidence*. Unless Lonnie Listmaker wants to
be truly responsible about it, and collects hard evidence from the
complainants, such as photocopies of bounced checks, delivery receipts
from UPS, etc.. And for those cases where someone says "we had an
agreement for me to buy this ramcard, and he sold it to someone else",
whose word would Lonnie Listmaker take? Bobby Buyer says "he PROMISED
to sell it to me!" and Sammy Sellor says "I made no such promise!".
Good luck settling that.

[Apologies in advance for all the annoying "Jake Jerkwad" naming 
conventions...]

(and for the record, I've bought and sold many items through usenet -
items with value as high as $950. In many cases, with only email
between myself and the sellor/buyer. I've not had any problems so
far, and neither have any of the people who've bought from me. If
somebody gets "taken" buying/selling here, who, fundamentally, is
to blame? Let the Buyer *and* Sellor beware.)
-- 
paul theodoropoulos                                         damiel@netcom.COM