Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:16:35 -0400
From:         gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 623

In this issue:
                       LIVING A LIE, my .02 cents
                                Morrisey
                            Gabriel's story
                            my own sig file
                   stories from Gabriel in New Mexico
                      Alferd Packer and CU-Boulder
                     gabriel and being a smartalec
                             PHILLIP-MORRIS
                        Philip Morris Continued
                         alferd packer and co.
                         FAX NUMBER FOR IGLHRC

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:        Thu, 13 Aug 92 16:31:13 EDT
From: "AAKL000@CATCC.bitnet  Kevin S. Lowery Catonsville"
 <AAKL%CATCC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject: LIVING A LIE, my .02 cents

> From: MPA15AB!RANDY@TRENGA.tredydev.unisys.com
> Date: 13 AUG 92 02:16
> Subject: Re: lies by ommission?
>
> COULPETG.JABBA@law.mail.cornell.edu (COULPETG) writes:
>
> > I don't think it is possible to "lie by ommission" in any
> > ordinary sense of the words....If others assume that I am straight simply
> > because they assume everyone is, then the only choice I have to not live
> > this lie by ommission is to continuously wear a placard reading
> > "I am gay" and shouting those words out as I walk down the
> > street....But it's ridiculous to think that I should make it clear
> > to the grocery store clerk that I'm gay or else be told I'm not
> > living my life "openly" or "honestly."
>
> Actually, Peter, I agree with you.  I was trying to explain what could be mean
> by the phrase "living a lie."  I think it really comes down to how much one
> cares what others think--if I were to laugh at homophobic jokes, change
> genders when talking about people I know, or be careful what I say in a
> personal phone call that may be overheard, then I am trying to hide my sexual
> orientation and to that extent am living a lie.  I agree that simply not
> volunteering information, while also not making any attempts at reinforcing
> an assumption of being strait, is not living a lie [hope I didn't go over my
> negatives-per-sentence allotment on that one].
>
> Randy
>
>   =====================================================================
>   = sua cuique voluptas              (everyone has his own pleasures) =
>   = Randy Gellens            randy%mpa15ab@trenga.tredydev.unisys.com =
>   = >>>>>>> If mail bounces, forward to rgellens@mcimail.com <<<<<<<< =
>   = Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak only for myself =
>
>                           Randomly selected tag:
>
> You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading
> this sort of trash.

If you are comfortable with your sexuality, then you will be yourself;
whether you are straight-acting or limp-wristed, or talk with a lisp,
or a weightlifter, or a bear, or a leather person or not.  You just
don't care what others think.  It's not that you're hiding it, you're
just not being blatant about it -- hence the PLACARD theory.  It is
not required of heterosexuals to "come out" so why should a gay man or
lesbian be expected to do the same just because we are "different" to
the strayts.  This should not be confused with a "lie by omission."

First of all, this lie may be the difference between your job and the
unemployment line.  That is a real concern that is why we who are out
need to work into our non-discrmination policies the two words which
will cover our butts: sexual orientation.  However, I do not believe
that those who are closeted should not bad-mouth the gay community and
its members to secure their heterosexual facade.  This is hypocritical
but is not a lie by ommission by one by commission, which is not our
topic.

However, I do believe that it is better (in most situations) to be OUT
and about rather than holding it all in.  There is such a release and
a freedom that you get.  I think that is what Lt. Thorne was trying to
say despite his use of terms.  It is true.  There is a true liberation
that accompanies coming OUT to people.  I still feel that rush when I
tell someone that I am gay who doesn't know (and there ain't many since
I've told two friends and they told two friends and they told two
friends, etc., etc., that don't know!)

It was really funny.  The other day I was visiting my SO in the
evening after work and he had the president of the community association
over and he introduced me as his business associate (which is not
entirely untrue.)  Well, I felt uncomfortable with that.  After she
left and I felt comfortable addressing the situation I asked why he
said that and he bawlked and blamed it on it being habit after growing
up gay in the late sixties and seventies.  Well, I expressed my dislike
of the situation and gave him alternative adjective he could use to
describe his affections for me (lover, SO, LP, boyfriend, etc.)  Besides
the community is very open and there are at least three or four other
couples in the community that are gay (and that is a low estimate) that
are OUT!

Now that I have gotten this far, I haven't decided whether I have
clarified, muddled, added or detracted from this ongoing net debate.
Hope that everyone gets what they need out of it.  Have a great
weekend y'all!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 16:56:26 EST
From: LAT <tate@siam.org>
Subject: Morrisey

          I recall in more recent interviews and profiles of Morrisey
          that he has been playing down his queerness, saying he is
          celibate and it doesn't really matter anyway, etc.  Stuff
          such as that.  I still love the guy though, and I love
          Derric's (sic--a certain letter on my 'board is not
          functioning) sigs!

          Lori

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 17:03:14 EST
From: LAT <tate@siam.org>
Subject: Gabriel's story

          Gabriel, I for one would love to read your story; I write
          fiction too.  If no one else is interested, you could just
          post it directly to me, if you want.

          Lori
          tate@siam.org

------------------------------

From: "Mac Phillips"  <MAC@hup.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Honors & Undergraduate Pgms
Date:         13 Aug 92 14:15:45 PST
Subject:      my own sig file
X-Pmrqc:      1

I've finally learned how to use my own file editor.  Test.Mac Phillips   *
 "And her eyes.  Such a lovely shade of violet.
UCLA           *    And such even teeth.  A rare, fair feature even
(310) 206-1694 *    teeth.  Of course she smiled to excess, but she
                    chewed with real distinction."
                                -Kate in "Lion in Winter" 1964

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 17:20:02 EDT
From: Catherine Moroney <moroney@oldkat.physics.utoronto.ca>
Subject: stories from Gabriel in New Mexico

Wasn't sure of my ability to get the message through to you personally, so
decided to go the public route.
Anyways, please do mail me the story, I am quite interested indeed.

A fascinated and becoming ever-more informed eavesdropper on the net.
Catherine Moroney
(.sig file, what's that?)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:46:22 -0600
From: Ryon Brame <ryon@support.avalanche.com>
Subject: Alferd Packer and CU-Boulder

Howdy!

	It's true that Alferd Packer is a bit of a local hero - the student
union cafeteria is named after him as well as "Alferd Packer Day".  It's
one of the most disgusting events I've ever seen (I go religiously every year)
consisting of various events designed to gross out the spectators.  For
instance the raw meat eating contest and oyster eating contest always make
some of the competitors vomit (which is another contest - first one to barf
gets $20), but I'm rambling.

	Alferd Packer (yeah, his first name is spelled that way) was in
the hills of south-western Colorado when he and his compatriots got caught
in a snowstorm.  After days of starvation and deaths from the cold, Alferd
and one of his buddies ate the other men.  'Ol Al's friend also kicked the
bucket, leaving Alferd as the sole surviver.  He claimed that the others
died from the cold, but many people believed that he murdered them.  He
was tried for murder and found guilty.  The quote that gets used most
around here (University of Colorado at Boulder) is from the judge that
sentenced Alferd Packer to death:

	"There wuz onl' seben dimmicrats in Hinsdale county, and you son
	 'o a bitch, eet five ob 'em!  I sentence you to hang 'til youse
	 is dead, dead, dead!"

	Although he was convicted to death, he was never executed.  I can't
remember if he appealed and got the death penalty reduced to life in
prison, but he served about 40 years before being released.  Also turns out
that the grusome act occured on an indian reservation, so the state
government never should have tried him - it should have been a matter for
the tribal council or the federal government.

	Amazin' what cha read about on GayNet, huh?

				- Ryon

P.S. - Gabriel (in New Mexico) - I'd like to read your story.  Send it to
me at:
+--------------------+-----------+------------------------------------------+
| Ryon Brame         |   *****   |  Due to financial contraints, the light  |
| ryon@avalanche.com |    ***    |  at the end of the tunnel will be turned |
| Boulder, Colorado  |     *     |  off until further notice.               |
+--------------------+-----------+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:17:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David M. Pahnos" <dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject:  gabriel and being a smartalec

>He says:
>
>>                           I equate being gay with 1. liking certain
>> types of music (I will go to a dance club that places house or techno
>> over one of country), 2. liking comic books (I collect them, and I go to
>> some conventions), 3. science fiction (almost the only genre of fiction
>> or non-fiction that I read, much to my detriment, as I refused to give
>> anything else a chance), 4. not being able to digest shrimp (but I  can
>> digest other shellfish), 5. being an abused child (by a father who was
>> damn good was he was good, and pretty bad when he was bad) and other
>> traits.
>
>I guess I'm not gay, then, since my dad didn't abuse me.
>
>Gabriel (in New Mexico)


you have totally misinterpreted what I meant by the above.  I equated
it, as these are aspects of myself just like being gay is in aspect of
myself, but none of the above qualifies as an ethnic identity, or an
overriding factor by itself in who I am.  When appropriate, each is
emphasized or brought up, but not used to prejudice my actions or
feelings toward something.  If you think I believe I'm gay becuase of
parental abuse, then you are really reading into my text, and your
wording needs something to be desired as far as tact is concerned.


michael j pastor iii
guest on davids account

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:18:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David M. Pahnos" <dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: PHILLIP-MORRIS

Now, I don't mean to attack you or anyone else, it is just that I have
a hard time justifying this kind of advertisement as good advertising.
Let's face it, they sell a product which has adverse affects on good
health.  I may not be in perfect health myself, but I try to avoid
even second-hand smoke.  Many of you can already see my point so I
won't belabor it.
Loren Meissner <lmeissne@u.washington.edu>

so do you feel the same way about Absolut Vodka's continual support all
of these  years in magazines such as the advocate?

michael j pastor iii
guest on davids account

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:29:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Loren Meissner <lmeissne@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Philip Morris Continued
Mime-Version: 1.0

Due to time commitments tonight and tomorrow morning, I probably won't be
able to type in the rest of the Philip Morris story from Thursday's Wall
Street Journal "Advertising" column for about 24 hours. I'm sure you're
dying to know what the
top ten brands smoked among Gay men are (as opposed to the national top
10). So if you can't wait 24 hours for this info, you can always rush out
to your nearest newsstand or library and snag a copy of this info.
(Disclaimer: I am not necessarily endorsing this article on Philip Morris
by posting it here).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:45:55 EDT
From: Tim Pierce <twpierce@cs.amherst.edu>
Subject: alferd packer and co.

"Mac Phillips"  <MAC@hup.ucla.edu> said:

>     My source is Ms. Packer, my highschool biology teacher from
> Melrose, MA.  A proud ancestor of Alfred

Boy, she must have been old.

-
____ Tim Pierce                / The Queer Resources Directory: access via
\  / twpierce@cs.amherst.edu   / anonymous ftp at nifty.andrew.cmu.edu in
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / directory /pub/QRD.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:19:09 -0700
From: Jessea N. R. Greenman <jnrg@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: FAX NUMBER FOR IGLHRC

A\OK all you infomaniacs, get ready: keep this one in your wallet,
at your workstation, under your pillow, etc.  The fax number for
the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission is
415-255-8662.

------------------------------

End of GayNet Digest
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