HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gt7219a@prism.gatech.EDU (Christopher Michael Lawyer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Ben's Death
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:46:03 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Jul31.144834.9639@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bl375@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian G. Greenberg) writes:
>
>This subject has always bothered me.  Why does Ben seem to give up while
>fighting Vader?  When I saw ANH for the first time (I was about 7) I thought
>that Ben was tranfering the Force from him to Luke.  Now I wonder if it was
>because Yoda had told Ben that it was Luke's destiny to face Vader.
>
>What is your opinions?
>-Brian

I always believed in the first reason.  Yoda wouldn't have told
Ben not to kill Vader because it was Luke's destiny.  Always in
motion is the future.  Back to the death star fight, I always thought
that the scene should have been something like this:

Ben:  If you strike me down Luke over there (points) will become
      more powerful than you can possibly imagine.  

C'mon, at the end of ANH Luke is barely able to beat a remote
with his force skills and at the beginning he desides to find
out if he can telekenesis things.  He had to get this skill from
somewhere didn't he?

this has been a regularly scheduled bout of random speculation
the manatee
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Subject: Re: Falcon en route to Bespin
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:06:40 GMT

I agree -- Han could have fixed the spare when they were
attached to the Star Destroyer. He & Chewie were fixing
*something* -- nothing says they couldn't be bringing the
spare on-line.

Chewie was probably trying to do that as they dodged the 
Star Destroyers leaving Hoth. 

Scott

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: gene@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Gene E. Johannsen)
Subject: Re: Falcon en route to Bespin
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:20:21 GMT

jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:

>In article <SS.92Jul20140112@wpi.WPI.EDU> ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)  
>writes:
>> >>>>> On 20 Jul 92 16:36:59 GMT, bailey@emunix.emich.edu (Grand Moff  
>Tarkin) said:
>> 
>> bailey> Because the Falcon has a backup hyperdrive that can be used in
>> bailey> emergencies.  But it is sort of like one of those doughnut
>> bailey> tires that can only be used for a short period of time.
>> 
>> Where did you come up with this??? The Falcon just flew to Bespin at
>> best speed. If it took a month, so what! Remember Luke was in training
>> at Yoda's all this time. What do you think, he spent the weekend
>> there? He must have been there a month or 2 at least....

>A month or two at sublight speed is NOT going to get you between
>star systems.

>The explanation I see is that Lucas and company made the classic
>blunder that so many other movie and TV producers have made. They
>really have no grasp at how big space is, and how far it really
>is between star systems, so that you can't easily drop in on 
>a system "next door" since next door, even for near by star system,
>is a couple of light years and thus at least a couple of years
>away at sub-light speeds.

Lucas et al are perfectly aware of the size of space.  The explanation
is much simpler:  He compressed time and space to expedite the plot.
We are dealing with a movie here, people.  Any resemblence to reality is
entirely coincidental.

gene
From: joshuali@usc.edu (Joshua Ling)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: R5-D4 wanted
Date: 27 Jul 1992 16:31:56 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
From: joshuali@aludra.usc.edu (Joshua Ling)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: klaatu
Date: 30 Jul 1992 09:29:11 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1194@niktow.canisius.edu> setlik@niktow.canisius.edu (ebbhead) writes:
>Well, I can help you out with the origin of 'klaatu' anyways.  It's from
>"The Day The Earth Stood Still" and is one of three words needed to be
>uttered to stop Borg(?) a crazy robot.  I belive the sequence is klaatu,
>niktow, barada.  

There are also skiff guards from Jedi named Barada and Nikto.  Barada is the
bull-dog faced one and Nikto is the one who fires the railing mounted cannon
which tips our heros' skiff.
From: joshuali@aludra.usc.edu (Joshua Ling)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: STAR WARS QUESTION
Date: 24 Jul 1992 17:05:19 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1992Jul24.155843.350@pro-freedom.cts.com> pip@pro-freedom.cts.com (David Pipgras) writes:
>The "Death Squad Commander" is the guy dressed in all black who has that
>spiffy, kinda dual, half-helmet, that kind alooks like the helmet was cut
>in hald and stuck together with one part on backwards....

No no no no. That guy is IMPERIAL GUNNER. The Death Squad Commander was the
original name for Death Star Commander.  He is the guy that says,"The
security deflector sheild will be deactivated when we have confirmation of
your code transmissionn...stand by" in Jedi.  He has a grey outfit with
a black helmet.

-joshuali@usc.edu


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: gh@sei.cmu.edu (Gaurang Hirpara)
Subject: Re: Wedge Theory
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:07:11 GMT



	Well, I think the possibility that Wedge is related to Luke and
	Leia extremely remote. Even according to the FotR script (which
	is fan written isn't it?), Lady Arcadia remains hidden with 
	Leia as a serving woman in the house of Bail Organa. Forgive
	me if I'm wrong, but I would think Leia would notice if she 
	had had a half brother during the time she was growing up there. 
	Her mother also died when she was very young apparently (around
	six or so?). So either she knows Wedge is her half brother and
	isn't saying (which I find highly unlikely since there's NO hint
	to this in any of the movies) or else it just ain't so. 


	--dan
From: tsmaster@media.mit.edu (David LeCompte)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Star Wars vs. Star Trek, tech & tactics, etc.
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:36:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Jul23.203644.14755
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

In article <BruMxE.MBy@watserv1.waterloo.edu> rlbell@babbage.waterloo.edu (Richard Bell) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.003111.13470@cco.caltech.edu> travis@cco.caltech.edu (Leopold E. Travis) writes:
>>
>>Even if we accept that the Empire cannot fight at FTL speeds, the
>>Federation still has to deal with the Death Star.  As I've pointed
>>out, the energy output required to destroy an earth-type planet is
>>on the order of 10^17 megatons--nearly two weeks' output from the sun.
>>Given this kind of power, it seems difficult to believe that Federation
>>weaponry could penetrate the Death Star's shields.  (And it was my
>>understanding that only small craft such as fighters could slip
>>through the shields like the rebels did).
>>
>
>The SSD passed right through the shields and caused extensive, if local,
>damage to the Death Star.  If the Death Star has holes in its shielding
>large enough to pass the Millenium Falcon, it has holes large enough to
>pass photon torpedoes, anti-matter bombs delivered via transporter, or
>any other destructive device that the Feds chose to use.   

Yeah, the Death Star II had large holes in its shields. REALLY big.
You might think that a band of Rebels might have gone in with some
explosives and destroyed a shield generator or something.

Now, if the Federation could create a diagram "that cannot exist in
real SpaceTime" a la "I Borg", feed this into the shield computers,
THEN the Fed might have a chance against the shields.

As it is, I think that the Federation, who HAS no small craft could
not penetrate OPERATIVE shielding and other defenses.

[regretting that I made this thread one message longer...]

				-Dave
-- 
---------------------
ObSig
From: pip@pro-freedom.cts.com (David Pipgras)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: 4-LOM
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:55:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: pro-free.1992Jul24.155535.350
Organization: ProLine [pro-freedom] AppleVan (Apple UG of Vancouver, WA)

In <23JUL199215401479@rosie.uh.edu> elee9tv@rosie.uh.edu (DANIEL) writes:

>
>	I was looking through my SW collection and came across a figure
>  called 4-LOM. Who was he? He never appeared in the movie.
>
>	dan 


4-LOM was one of the Bounty Hunters in The Empire Strikes Back, he/it was
located behind Bossk and next to IG-88...

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: etllnfr@babelfish.ericsson.se (Lyndon Fletcher)
Subject: Just how much of SW did Lucas make up as he went along??????
Organization: Ericsson Cellular Division
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:34:25 GMT


In the thread on Lightsabers someone suggested that Lucas decided to make Vader
Luke's father after ANH. Is there any evidence of this???

The other day I was looking through the Starwars Portfolio and noticed how much
Lucas changed the first film between preproduction and the final screened version.

The original artwork, which Lucas had drawn as a guide for production design
clearly shows:-

       o  Originally the hero was to be a girl (Leia Skywalker???)

       o  There was to be an extended fight in the cantina.

       o  Luke was to meet Vader in a duel on the Falcon.

       o  Ben was to survive the battle with Vader and be present in the 
          throne room at the end.

       o  Stormtroopers armed with Lightsabers and transparent (Lightsaber
          proof?) shields.

I always saw the Vader/Luke relationship as being a little contrived,
it always looked like an afterthought or something designed to shock an 
audience. Concidering the carefull characterisation of the first film    
it seems strange that Luke reacts so violently to the news. It's almost
like Lucas is using that grief to distract the audience from what is a
major plot twist. It's as if HE didn't believe it would stand up to close
scutiny.

Strangely I accepted the Luke/Leia relationship more easily. Every writer
puts a version of him/herself into their work. It was always obvious to  
me that Lucas's character in Starwars was Han Solo, he got the best lines
and the most interesting characterisation. Once you realised that it became
obvious that he either had to die mega heroically, or he had to get the girl.
For Han to get Leia, Luke would have to be out of the way (they had made too
much of Han and Lukes rivalry in the first film), I had thought Luke would
disappear off at the end of the movies to leave the field clear. Making
Luke and Leia brother and sister solved this problem quite easily.


So did Lucas change his mind yet again? Based on past evidence it seems
unlikely that George ever had a single unified vision for Starwars at
all, just a few general ideas that he developed as time went on.  When
the first movie proved so popular, Lucas realised that he would have no
difficulty financing two extra films and THEN he took a more long term view.
This could explain the sudden appearence of "Chapter IV" in ANH.

Well what does everyone else think??? I'm hoping to start a tread here!!
So far I haven't receieved a single comment, mail message or flame for
ANYTHING that I've posted here, I'm beginning to think that my posts
arn't getting through.

Opinions appreciated. 

Fletch       
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: s1082919@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (T Hankinson is YODA)
Subject: Re: Who didn't get figures made of them?
Organization: Monash University College Gippsland, Churchill, 3842, Australia
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:31:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.221810.284@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> a_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.163031.12320@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, bailey@emunix.emich.edu (Grand Moff Tarkin) writes:
>>
>> They never had a figure of the standard rebel guys either.
>>
>
>	They did (with Hoth outfits, anyway). Or maybe that's an officer...
>
>Brandon Cope
>
     Well actually both an officer and standard rebel in Hoth had figures made
     of them.



     And by the way I picked up 4  'original' tESB posters for $1 each. There
     was one of Boba Fett, one of Darth and some stormtroopers, the tESB poster
     and one R2D2 and C3PO.
From: ipc@zoo.bt.co.uk (Ian Coleman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: C3PO was: Re: Wedge Theory
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:20:23 GMT
Reply-To: ipc@zoo.bt.co.uk
Organization: BT Laboratories


 >In article <1992Jul27.194756.11404@wheaton.wheaton.edu> rmbenn@david.wheaton.edu (Richard M. Bennema) writes:
>>Also, 3PO says that he isn't very good at telling stories in ANH but in RotJ he
>>seemed pretty good to me.  Another boo boo of character development?

No. 3PO was telling Luke lies to dissuade any interest in the Alliance.
After all at that stage C-3P0 had no idea whether his new master was
trustworthy or not.

He was, in fact, being nearly as devious as R2-D2 who also showed a remarkable
disposition toward falsehood.

3P0 translates "He says the restraining bolt has short circuited his
recording system. He suggests that if you remove the bolt, he might be
able to play back the entire recording"

Luke removes bolt and the hologram disappears

Luke says: "Well, wait a minute. Where'd she go? Bring her back! Play back
the entire message."

Beeps from Artoo

3P0 "What message? The one you're carrying inside your rusty innards!" 

Droids never lie? Must be SW version of the Data Protection Act :-)
 


---
Ian Coleman (ipc@zoo.bt.co.uk)  | "Eat healthily, exercise regularly,
BTL, Martlesham Heath, England  |  you may not live longer, but it'll 
Europe, Earth, Sol, Milky Way...|  certainly feel like it"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: mnaught@carina.unm.edu ()
Subject: BONEHEAD MOVES (was SW/ESB CARDS AVAIL/NEEDED) 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 06:32:32 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Summary: I don't believe I did that. 
Keywords: Dumb, stupid, idiotic, shortsighted, myopic.

	In middle school, I bought SW / TESB cards BY THE CARTON.  I
	had a fascination for them.  I must've spent 200 bucks on 
	topps cards (was it Topps that made them originally?)  I'd just
	waltz into the convenience store and plop down ten or twelve
	dollars for an unopened display package of the things and then
	spend the next two days chewing powdered gum and reading cards.

	BUT SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE I screwed up.  I had shoeboxes 
	full of the things and SOLD THE ENTIRE COLLECTION FOR LESS 
	THAN THIRTY DOLLARS! 

	ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

	I also gave away some very first-edition action figures at a 
	garage sale.   And all on the then-reasonable pretense that 
	"I Was Growing Up."

	Has anyone else suffered similar brain damage? or am I alone in
	this, my final chapter of dispair .........

      -------------------------------------------------------------------
	"Albuquerque New Mexico   .... you will never find a more 
	wretched hive of scum and villany.  We must be cautious."
      -------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Matt MacNaughton                    ~~   "I dunno, I can *imagine*       |
| University of New Mexico            ~~     quite a bit...."              |
| mnaught@carina.unm.edu              ~~                         -- Solo   |
From: joshuali@aludra.usc.edu (Joshua Ling)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Lapti Nek
Date: 23 Jul 1992 13:53:01 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <23JUL92133422@tiamat.hacks.arizona.edu> dkemper@tiamat.hacks.arizona.edu writes:
>
>Yeah, same with the Cantina Band's song in ANH.  (Why don't they have a 
>cool name like "Sy Snootles and the Rebo Band" do?)  Thing is, in both 
>cases I like the soundtrack versions better.  But yeah, it would be 
>interesting to hear the movie versions in their entirety.

Are you sure that the Cantina version on the original soundtrack is not the
same as the version in the movie?  I'm pretty sure that it IS the same thing.
There is a second tune that is played in the cantina when Luke and Ben are
talking with Han that is different from the main tune.  If this is what you 
mean, I too have not heard any recording of it outside the film.

-joshuali@usc.edu
From: EMW107@psuvm.psu.edu (BIG ED)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: JEDI Sountrack???
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:34:04 GMT
 <1992Jul22.164424.3934@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Jul22.164424.3934@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
tabaer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Troy A Baer) says:
>
>Anybody know if there's any possibility Polydor will release ALL of the
>music to the trilogy in one humongous boxed set, like the 4 CD Led Zep. set?
>It'd be really cool... ->*sigh*<-
>
>        --Troy

    Alright. I already wrote to PolyGram (affliated with PolyDor), but I am
willing to write again about this poor excuse of a soundtrack release. Is any-
one else interested in flooding PolyGram with letters of complaint?? If so,
post it. Maybe we could try to mail them all the same day, in an effort to get
some attention. Comments, please.

                                     -Ed

 ======================================================================
             Edwin 'Big Ed' Weiland - EMW107@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
            Architectural Engineering; Penn State University
 "There are two ways to be, and truth does not depend on me." -King's X
 ======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: jmb5b@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (John M. Bozeman)
Subject: Re: Star Wars vs. Star Trek, tech & tactics, etc.
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:02:50 GMT

In article <mwalker-220792153436@mwalker1.npd.provo.novell.com.> mwalker@novell.com (Mel Walker) writes:
>> 
>> How about this:
>> 
>> Sensor Tech:  A warp drive?  Sir?
>> 
>> Imperial Captain:  An obsolete form of faster than light travel.  The Old
>> 	Republic abandoned it millenia ago, when the hyperdrive was
>> 	perfected.  In fact, they probably plan to attack us from warp
>> 	drive -- target all proton torpedoes, and wait for my mark.
>> 	Ensign!  Get me the commander of our Interdictor Cruiser --
>> 	This should be entertaining...
>> 
>> 
>> The *only* thing the 400-year-old Federation has going for it against
>> the millenia-old Star Wars galaxy is writers who aren't restricted by
>> things like consistency.
>> 
>
>I could believe this, except for one thing: If the Empire had a warp drive,
>they would use it. It would give too much of an advantage for ship-to-ship
>combat. Plus, they wouldn't need the Death Star. They could just ram a
>missle into a planet at warp speed. Of course, the Old Republic could have
>abandoned preliminary testing of a warp drive when the hyperdrive was
>discovered. If a fully-functional warp drive existed in the Empire, it
>would be used by the Empire. The only thing stopping it would be a writer
>who isn't restricted by things like consistency.
>
>"Captain! We're moving toward a huge, unexplored Plot Device!
>Coincidentally, it's causing all the Warp Drives in the Galaxy to cease
>functioning! We'll have to activate the experimental Hyperdrive and hope
>for the best!"
>

Yeah, but consider...In ST IV the entire federation was rendered helpless
by a Giant Squeeking Suasage Roll that talked to dolphins.  And you must
admit, even the New, Improved Federation sure got clobbered by a 
single Borg...
From: tmkst6@pitt.edu (Theodore M Kostek)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Ben's Age
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:12:32 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: tmkst6@unix.cis.pitt.edu


Some one posted question about Ben's age.  I didn't manage to get all
the interesting ideas in my message here :( but here's a thought:
in RotJ, Luke says to Yoda "You can't die."  Yoda replies with "Strong am
I with the Force, but not that strong."  I always took this to imply that 
being adept with the Force lengthened one's life, and that if you were
really, really good you might even live forever.  

So maybe Ben is actually quite old by human standards, since I always
thought that he was pretty good with the Force.  Maybe like 150-200
yrs or so, assuming that a normal lifespan is roughly equal to ours.
From: jrjj@moscom.UUCP (Jad Jordan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Another Han Solo Blooper?
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:55:30 GMT
Reply-To: jrjj@moscom.UUCP (Jad Jordan)
Organization: Moscom Corp., Pittsford, NY

In article <1992Jul27.012839.5227@leland.Stanford.EDU> mohr@leland.Stanford.EDU (Paul William Mohr) writes:
>I have a question.  In ROTJ, why does Han immediately have any desire to
>help out Lando when he's about to fall into the Sarlacc? 

Well, you forgot the scene in the cell where Chewie explains to Han the plan
that Luke, Leia, Lando, R2 and Chewie cooked up. Of course, they didn't tell
3P0 anything about it.

-Jad
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Subject: White 3PO-ish Droid
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:07:57 GMT

Help my poor brain!

Where did the white version of 3PO appear in the movies?

I can't recall, although I can picture the droid....

Scott
Organization: The Pennylvania State University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:46:24 EDT
From: Ernie Oporto <EAO102@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Falcon en route to Bespin

In article <0eRtZj200VIGFgNJ1K@andrew.cmu.edu>, Robert Edward Timlin
<rt16+@andrew.cmu.edu> says:
>
>     This brings up another question: did Vader's TIE fighter have a
>hyperdrive
>in ANH? Or did he just flit around the Yavin system until a Star Destroyer
>showed up to see why they hadn't heard anything from the Death Star in a
>while?
>
>     My money is on the hyperdrive, since his ship has a lot more structure
>than any other TIE fighter. The RPG say anything?

I'd bet on that too...If the X-Wings could have them, why not his unique
looking TIE fighter?  And what ever happened to that thing?  I guess after
his promotion due to the DS explosion weeding out the top ranks, he canned
it for the better job?

  _____)           ______        _)       _)  EAO102@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
                               __       __    OPORTO@CORVETTE.ECE.PSU.EDU
______    ______            ___      ___      Ernie "SHOKK" Oporto
                               __       __    Lab Computer Attendant
(_______ _      _ ________ _     _) _     _)  for PSU's CAC Department
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: redfive@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Vian Lawson)
Subject: News on Kenneth Flint.
Keywords: not.
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 04:04:42 GMT


Right!  Thought that would get your attention!

Well, in hopes of finding out anything about the mythical\legendary super
dooper giant sized novel which is (or is not) being written by him,I rang his
publisher, Bantam books, who have an outpost in Sydney. As any whelk
knows, Bantam Spectra are the chaps who produce both the Zahn novels and
the Young REaders series written by two people called Davids.  They
were singularly unhelpful, and suggested I ring either the New York or Toronto
offices, where somebody would almost certainly know something.  Alas,
international phone calls are not in the price range of the average
student, so I am at a dead end.  

So if there's anyone out there who lives in a city with a Bantam Office,
could they ring them and ask what Kenneth Flint is doing?  I mean, just so
we know.  There's also an office in London ...

Whatever discussion arose would have to be better than the current SW\ST
debate ...

-- 
  "They've shut down the main reactor"   /  ^  \  Vian Lawson. 
  "Oh no!  That means we'll have to     |  \ /  | Otherwise known as  
  react on our own ..."                  \_____/ redfive@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au