HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: david@perle.UUCP (David L.)
Subject: One Day At A Time In Al-Anon
Organization: Perle Systems Ltd.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 13:19:29 GMT

From "ONE DAY AT A TIME IN AL-ANON", copyright 1973, by 
Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.  Reprinted by 
permission of Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.

----------------------------------------------------------

APRIL 9

   Sometimes we find ourselves in a situation so
difficult that it seems like a long, drawn-out crisis;
we cannot solve it; there is no way to escape.
Such a problem will occupy our thoughts contin-
ually - round and round it goes and the more we
think about it, the more we are engulfed in
despair.
   This is the moment to recall a simple phrase,
a slogan or a bit of philosophy, and to say it over
and over until our minds are filled with it,
replacing thoughts of the tormenting problem.
   It might be the Serenity Prayer or a thought
like the one an Al-Anon member sent in to The
FORUM: "Thank you, God, I can now see that
thorns have roses."

TODAY'S REMINDER

   There is some good in even the darkest troubles that
happen to me. I can acquire the knack of searching out
the good, and concentrating on it. Much depends on
meeting my problems head on, calmly estimating their
real character, refusing to exaggerate them, and then
drowning them out with an inspiring thought.

       "Painful experiences come from the thorns
	that wound us; they make us forget they
	also have roses. Yet we cannot expect to
	enjoy life's color, beauty and fragrance,
	without accepting the thorny challenges
	and learning how to deal with them, as we
	do in Al-Anon."


Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: Steve Salter <ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Sorry about that (I'll figure out how to post yet! *grin*)
Organization: OFSA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 12:27:45 -0500

crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (crystal) explains:

 
>1) I have tried 12-step programs in the past. Couldn't get past step 2. I'm
>   an atheist, and there's just too much God-talk that I can't agree with.
> "Letting go and letting God" is bizarre concept to me. Letting go and letting
>   ME makes sense.  Hence I see 12-step as religious.

Hmmm, I see your viewpoint but I interpreted the "god" stuff a bit
differently. I substitute the word "higher power" for "god". Works for
me. I tried for 15 years to do it by myself but it wasn't until I was
completely *down* that I was able to start recovery. I did go through
treatment and was active in AA for the first few months. But, neither
treatment or AA could have helped me before *I* was ready to surrender
my ego. When I "let go" I let go of my controlling behavior and just
try to *be*.

>   hear people say "I've been in this group for 6 years and it works!" I have
>   to wonder how many more years will they be there before they can stop the
>   group (a compulsion in itself).  I did it in one. NO I AM NOT STOPPING MY
>   RECOVERY - it is an ongoing process.  But I am happy, healthier, more

Hmmm, you sound rather proud of doing it in a year, crystal. I was
always proud of my own "Strength" when I was using. I can't get too
proud of my progress...I still go to a meeting now and then to remind
myself of who I am.

Steve
From: ronan@codon3 (Karen Ronan;161 GPBB;x2-0884)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Sponsor followup
Date: 12 Apr 1992 23:04:19 GMT
Organization: University of California
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: codon3.berkeley.edu

In article <23683@scorn.sco.COM> joannee@sco.COM (Joanne Eglash) writes:
>
>My problem is that the other woman has a meeting at her house,
>and I really like her meeting...but fear her sometimes sharp
>tongue. I hate subjecting myself to a negative commentary if
>I pitch at her meeting.  So next issue: is it "dishonest" to just

Is there "crosstalk" at this meeting? Otherwise, where is the
sharp tongue coming from? Why is this woman commenting/criticizing
you? I find it completely unnecessary to criticize other people
at meetings (my opinion).

>stop calling her, and hope she won't press me on the subject
>of why I'm not using her as a sponsor. (Gawd, that sounds awful...
>"using" her...well, I hope y'all know what I mean:  communicating
>with her on a sponsor/sponsee level...)

(My opinion). I suppose it depends on what kind of relationship
you had with her: whether you regularly called her every day
and she has come to expect to hear from you. I personally don't
tend to "have it out" with people when they've crossed over the
line of tolerance. I frequently just avoid them and they usually
don't approach me asking why. Sometimes I just...never want to
have anything more to do with them..and that's it. If a person
asked me what was going on, I would just say that I have found
a sponsor with whom there was more compatibility. If she got angry
because I didn't inform her, I would just say, "Sorry" and end
the conversation.  If it isn't worth my time or trouble to
"placate" or "make someone feel better" about a situation, I just
don't do it.  I think that I'll probably get flamed for saying
that, but that's how it is.
Best of luck,
Karen

>
>Joanne


ronan@codon2.berkeley.edu

"Where the seller of stars, for a penny or two, will sell your
Heart's desire to you."
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: david@perle.UUCP (David L.)
Subject: One Day At A Time In Al-Anon
Organization: Perle Systems Ltd.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 12:57:33 GMT

From "ONE DAY AT A TIME IN AL-ANON", copyright 1973, by 
Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.  Reprinted by 
permission of Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.

----------------------------------------------------------

APRIL 12

   Despair - how many of us suffer from it! Yet
we do not realize that it is purely the absence of
faith. We cannot despair as long as we are willing
to turn to God for help in our extremity. When
we are troubled, and can't see a way out, it is only
because we imagine that all solutions depend
upon US. We must remind ourselves that our
human wisdom and ingenuity have often failed to
bring the hoped-for results.
   Perhaps our too-heavy burdens have made us
lose what faith we once had in a Power greater
than ourselves. Perhaps faith was never a part of
our lives and we are not convinced we need it.
   In Al-Anon we discover that the reality and
the efficacy of faith, as a force for good, can be
demonstrated. When we let go of an over-whelm-
ing problem and let God handle it for us, we find
that Divine Principle truly has a part in our lives.

TODAY'S REMINDER

   A natural faith is indeed a gift, yet it is never denied
to those who feel the need of something to cling to and
are willing to reach out for it. When I consciously
surrender my will to God's will, I see faith at work in
my life.

       "I will take comfort in unwavering
	faith, for without it I am helpless
	and alone..."


From: gcr@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (George Rieck)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:47:31 GMT
Subject: Re: DRINK NOW!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.recovery


But the disease makes it difficult to KNOW what you want! ...

George
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (crystal)
Subject: Re: Sorry about that (I'll figure out how to post yet! *grin*)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 02:48:37 GMT

In <1992Apr14.132806.1912@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) writes:

>>5) Not everyone can use the 12-step method. I can't. That doesn't mean it
>>   doesn't work. It does work for millions.  It's just not for me. When I
>>   hear people say "I've been in this group for 6 years and it works!" I have
>>   to wonder how many more years will they be there before they can stop the
>>   group (a compulsion in itself).  I did it in one.

>Congratulations!

>Please don't dig your hole too deep. Most of us were atheist or agnostic
>before we got to our respective 12-step programs. But we reached a point
>where we hurt bad enough to be willing to believe that there was a Power
>greater than ourselves.

>You say that you did it in one year. And as long as it lasts, that's fine.
>But if you ever find something missing, you might like to try another
>way - with other people.

>Love and service,

>jim p.



>-- 
>Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
>Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

I *DO* have other people...I just don't agree with the group aspect for ME.
 
I also did not post to get into arguments. I stated MY views. What works for
you may be different.  That doesn't mean *either* of is wrong.  There's room
in this world for many points of view. My only job is to accept them.  What 
you do when you hear them is *your* business.  

Peace!
  ;>

>*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Rules? We don't need no stinking rules!!!
Summary: Well, we didn't _think_ we did..
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:45:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: lambda.1992Apr7.174503.18793
Organization: NASA/MSFC


The last posting about "RULES" got me to remembering...
************************************************************

Once upon a time a bunch of us in my hometown got tired of the old
poops in our AA group making a bunch of stinking rules (for those who
didn't catch the subject line, it is loosely from the quote
'Badges?...'etc. 8-) and so we decided to come out in force and say
_STOP IT_. However, most of us attended noon meetings 

(parenthetcally - although this differs all over the country, in this
area, an AA group is likely to rent a building all by itself
_as_a_group_ and have meetings every day and night, rather than
renting an area in something like a church basement and having one or
two meetings a week )

and the monthly buisness meeting was at night. So we asked that the
buisness meeting be moved to the weekend, so we could attend.

They said no.

We asked our Area Delegate about it.

He said they should move the buisness meeting to the weekend so
everyone could vote.

We told the old poops that.

They said not no but hell no, and what were we doing taking our
problems to an outsider, dammit? (Hey, any ACA's out there, remind you
of home?)

So eventually we wound up forming our own group. And we said,
'RULES? We don't need no stinking rules!' And we didn't. Everybody
brought their kids to meetings, and the kids didn't need no stinking
rules either. And before long folks were reading papers and playing
poker _during_ meetings, and the place never got cleaned up, etc.

So now I see it as 'RULES? People can't get _along_ without rules of
some sort, the main difference in AA being that we have no authority
to _enforce_ the rules. But people generally don't mind going along
with a group conscience. If they do, then they go elsewhere - they
don't sit around trying to force their will. Not if they are alkys,
they don't!

love and service,

jim p.

p.s. While typeing this, I almost swooned (no, I ain't being dramatic)
when I remembered those buisness meetings. I reckon that the
resentment is still there...time to do more work! 8-0





-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
From: debrag@mattys.EBay.Sun.COM (Debra Giberson)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: One Year
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:14:40 GMT
Reply-To: debrag@mattys.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: mattys

I am happy to say that yesterday I celebrated one year of sobriety. I
had dinner with my sponsor and we went to a meeting where I was then 
elected Secretary. What a great way to celebrate! Anyways I am really
happy with the progress that I am making in my life, and I wanted to
share that with all of you!

Debra Giberson
From: ronan@codon2 (Karen Ronan;161 GPBB;x2-0884)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Two programs/two sponsors
Date: 10 Apr 1992 18:54:52 GMT
Organization: University of California
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: codon2.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr10.133609.12695@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) writes:
>joannee@sco.COM (Joanne Eglash) writes:
>
>he will tell me to _do_ this, or _do_ that, and no damn arguement 8-)!
>
>

I respect your trust and confidence in your sponsor, but what about
a sponsor who isn't such a longtime, good friend?
>This seems to be exactly what I need. I have a Higher Power, but there are

>I have to have a sponsor that, when the chips are down, I will shut up
>and do exactly as he says. The willingness to follow someone else's 
>directions is important to what little humility I have.

Again, you have your own needs, but I am speaking as someone
who sees things differently. I don't think humility has anything
to do with following someone else's directions. I think it has to
do with being aware that I am not the center of everyone else's
universe, even those who would love to focus on my problems and
give my life the direction that they want it to have.
There are friends who speak frankly to me but they never give me
directions. They show me a choice of directions and give me
the freedom to choose.
-Karen
ronan@codon2.berkeley.edu

"I wish I could find the wee street that wanders up and down,
East of the sun and west of the moon, and very near twilight town,
Where the seller of stars, for a penny or two, will sell your
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: Stop drinking step?
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:48:10 GMT

cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison) writes:

>In article <schmitt.703255699@convex.convex.com> schmitt@convex.com (Herb Schmitt) writes:
>>[...] a newcomer [...] asked: "What step do you stop drinking?"

>IMNSHO, that's purposely not in the steps.

>"To stop drinking" describes an act of will power.

>Better question:  "At what step is the desire to drink lifted?"

>Answer: "your mileage may vary"

-but _by_ the tenth step - 'For by this time sanity will have returned.
We will seldom be interested in liquor.'

love and service,

jim p.

-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: my sponsor fired me!
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:28:34 GMT

ronan@codon3 (Karen Ronan;161 GPBB;x2-0884) writes:

>In article <1992Apr13.123457.1486@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) writes:
>>
>>1. I know what is best for me
>>	vs.
>>2. I don't know what is best for me.
>>
>>One of these is psychological. The other one is spiritual.

>I don't see a major difference between psychology and
>spirituality.

O.K. Don't see any need to go into this now (especially as you
didn't _ask_ for a difference, you simply don't see one 8-)


>Some of the information I got was about spirit, about psychology,
>about interpersonal relations. You can get that information out
>of the "Big Book" and you can CERTAINLY get it elsewhere.

<stuff deleted>

>I've never read the Big Book and don't intend to. I'm not
>an alcoholic and I am not interested in reading about drinking.

<don't_need_big_book_stuff_deleted>

As I understood the post, it was about sponsorship in a twelve_step
program. These steps came from the Big Book.

The twelve step program is outlined in the Big Book. And it is _spiritual_
in nature, not psychological. 'When we recover spiritually, we straighten
out mentally and physically'.

'Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps...'

love and service,

jim p.

p.s. I also read the Big Book in _OA_ (was told to do so by my sponsor,
and even the OA literature tells me to read the BB 8-)

-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
From: joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Sorry about that... ;<
Keywords: sponsor followup
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:11:15 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <crystal.703126214@glia> crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (crystal) writes:
>I am one of those who used "self will" in my recovery.
>I did NOT use professional help.
>I can't stand the 12-step religions.

A 12 step program is not a religion and if you had any experience in one
you would know that. SO don't condem anything that you don't know about!!
>I read books, I looked to my subconscious, I became aware of the patterns
>around me and in my life.

>Within ONE year, I came from suicide attempt to discovery of my sexual abuse
>core memory to the feelings of normalcy I have now. My life is improving on
>a daily basis, some things ACTUALLY FIXING THEMSELVES without my help.
> 
>Yes, if you BELIEVE you can do it on your own, You CAN do it on your own!
>(Don't listen to those folks who call you nuts for trying your own self-will.
>If you want something bad enough, you will acheive it)
> 
>We are not given a wish without the means to make it come true - Richard Bach.
>  
>Books that I used:
>Your Erroneous Zones - Wayne Dyer
>Way of the Peaceful Warrior - Dan Millman
>Illusions - Richard Bach
>Bridge Across Forever - Richard Bach
>One - Richard Bach
>Keeping the Love you Find - Harville Hendrix
>  
>I used them in that order.  You self-willed people might want to give it a try.
>I'm re-reading Peaceful Warrior now and I'm spooked about how everything
>stated has come true in my life where before they were merely Understandings,
>they are now "realizations".
>  
>Forgive the messyness of this post.  If it doesn't work, I won't have wasted
>time tidying.  If it does work,  Oh...well...cest la vie!  ;>
>  
>Cheers!
>Crystal
>  ;>


Recovery from what? Sexual abuse is not recover from an addiction. 
You know I read many of the books you have mentioned and tons of other self
help books when I was still using. I thought that I could find my answers
in those books but guess what I continued to use and use and use. Nothing
helped me until I came to AA. Know with a clear mind  I can read these books
again and maybe get somthing out of them. I too have found out in the last
year that I was sexually abused as a child.  I feel for you having to go
through it alone. I have a support group of people around me. Many who have
gone through the same things that I have gone through. Before I  came to AA
I thought that I could do everything by myself that only weak people ask for
help. I now find that it is the opposite I am a stronger individual if I
ask for help.  The only way that I can learn to my fullest ability is to
ask people to show me how they did it.


Joni
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Alcoholics Anonymous pp 4-5
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:01:30 GMT
Reply-To: uunet!mdcsc!ah
Distribution: alt
Organization: TRW Space & Defense
Originator: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com


===========Posting for Alex=================
Alcoholics Anonymous: The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and
Women Have Recovered from Alcoholism: NEW AND REVISED EDITION,
Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., New York City, 1955.

This book (Big Book, second edition) is in the public domain.
=============================
pages 4 - 5

	Chapter 1 - Bill's Story (continued)
	
Abruptly in October 1929 hell broke loose on the New York stock
exchange. After one of those days of inferno, I wobbled from a hotel
bar to a brokerage office. The ticker still clattered. It was eight
o'clock - five hours after the market closed. I was staring at an inch
of tape which bore the inscription XYZ-32. It had been 52 that morning.
I was finished and so were many friends. The papers reported men
jumping to death from the towers of High Finance. That disgusted me. I
would not jump. I went back to the bar. My friends had dropped several
million since ten o'clock - so what? Tomorrow was another day. As I
drank, the old fierce determination to win came back.

Next morning I telephoned a friend in Montreal. He had plenty of money
left and thought I had better go to Canada. By the following spring we
were living in our accustomed style. I felt like Napoleon returning to
Elba. No St. Helena for me! But drinking caught up with me again and my
generous friend had to let me go. This time we stayed broke.

We went to live with my wife's parents. I found a job; then lost it as
a result of a brawl with a taxi driver. Mercifully, no one could guess
that I was to have no real employment for five years, or hardly draw a
sober breath. My wife began to work in a department store, coming home
exhausted to find me drunk. I became an unwelcome hanger-on at
brokerage places.
==============End posting for Alex=========================
-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: david@perle.UUCP (David L.)
Subject: One Day At A Time In Al-Anon
Organization: Perle Systems Ltd.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:01:16 GMT

From "ONE DAY AT A TIME IN AL-ANON", copyright 1973, by 
Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.  Reprinted by 
permission of Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.

----------------------------------------------------------

APRIL 7

   Someone says at an Al-Anon meeting, "But I 
must 'cover up' for the alcoholic; what would my
neighbors and relatives think of me if I didn't?"
Another admits that she must make excuses to
the boss, lest the alcoholic lose his job. Another
goes to work to help pay bills that should be the
responsibility of the head of the household.
   Can we really delude ourselves into believing
that such stop-gaps will work? Do we imagine
they will do anything but PROLONG the alcoholic
agony, since we know the disease is progressive?
We would do well to realize that the inevitable
collapse may be far worse than if we had allowed
him to face up to his own responsibilities and
mistakes, free of our interference.

TODAY'S REMINDER

   If I take no part in protecting the alcoholic from the
consequences of his drinking, and ALLOW disaster to
overtake him, then the responsibility for what happens
is not mine. I should not CREATE a crisis to "bring the
alcoholic to his senses" - but I must have the courage
to keep hands off and let the crisis happen.

       "I pray God to help me understand that
	the alcoholic's fate is not in my hands.
	I will leave to Him whatever action is
	to be taken, and guard against interfering
	with the working out of His plan for us."


Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com (Maurice E. Suhre)
Subject: Re: RULES....
Organization: TRW, INC.
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 00:21:13 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.122726.16416@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) writes:
 
=I kinda assumed that when they said 'We tried to hold on to some of our old
=ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely' that they meant
=_just_that_ 8-) :that _all_ old ideas had to go. Some of them we may pick 
=up again, but it ain't _my_ job (as sopmeone asking for sanity 8-) to 
=figure out which of my ideas are good ones and which aren't - they _all_
=have to go! This includes the kind of music I listen to, the way I dress,
=etc.

I believe that the words in the Big Book were chosen carefully.
However, I have a different interpretation.  "Let go" is not synonymous
with "evict" or "discard".  When I let go of all my old ideas, that
allows the ones which aren't useful any longer to drop away.  The ones
which are useful can remain.  Just that simple.
-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com