HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Originator: torrie@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:03:23 GMT

gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:

>And dropping backwards compatibility on the chipset is like going from
>the 680x0 series to some other RISC/CISC cpu.  It doesn't pay.

  Why don't you think it pays?  If you get a chip which performs two
or three times faster, yet costs the same or less, it pays off handsomely.
Especially if you have emulation technology already developed, along 
with binary recompilers (can anyone say Echo Logic?).

>Such is life.  Problems occur.  And if all they were going to do, as
>you say, the NeXT and Apple companies have, is to throw in an 040 cpu
>into a run-of-the-mill architecture, that would be just fine. 

  Define run-of-the-mill.  The NeXT (even the original) is hardly
a run of the mill architecture.

>But
>that's not the way it works, is it?  C= has always thrown new
>technology into things.  The A600 got a few new chips, and so will the rest.

  So you're saying the Quadra has no new technology?  Last I looked,
there was a new NuBus 90 bus in there, a built-in motherboard DMA
Ethernet, totally revamped (and improved quality) sound chipset, a new
high-speed SCSI controller (two of them for the Q900), and of course,
the 24-bit graphics on board (with support for VGA, SVGA, NTSC, PAL
outputs etc etc).
  Perhaps if Commodore could incorporate so much new technology in any
product over the past 7 years, people wouldn't be complaining.
  
>And a lot of the things that you ask for may be coming on the horizon,
>though patience is a virtue.  If I were C=, I'd wait until the falcon
>was, if it ever is, released, and then totally underprice them.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  Exactly.  So you're prepared to wait until 1997 for the A4000?
  
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
From: mike@pnet01.cts.com (Michael Cianflone)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PCs are the godsend. The will triumph over the world. : -)
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:16:03 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA


>>>>OK John, then maybe this'll do. I'm an Amiga user, so in your view, I'm in
>>>>"my" group, right? OK, so shut the hell up. You're getting as annoyning as
>>>>Marc Barrett, and starting to remind me of Thomas Hill (ala ST basher).
>>>
>>>>Tony Poole
>>>
>>>Oh! Dan Stephenson's gonna eat this one up!
>>>
>>>btw, I don't recall asking for your opinion
 
>>BFD, I gave it to you.  Who asked for your opinion or voice on ANYTHING?
 
>>Why don't you just give it a rest???  Please?
 
>>I put you in my kill file, but I still end up reading your crap through
>>follow-ups.  What do you think you are proving by playing Mr. Broken Record?
 
>  Ok. Since you asked so nicely. Seriously. I think I've had my fun. One
>person shouldn't be allowed to have this much fun. I think I win the award
>for the person in the most kill files :-) Since I'm in so many kill files, I
>imagine 80% of the people here won't be reading this ;^), unless someone
>quotes it and re-prints it. I do agree I might have gone a bit overboard,
>but I was just trying to show.... hmmmm, I don't really know *what* I was
>trying to show.. perhaps I was showing how the record approach ala Marc
>Barrett can be *very* annoying. The Amiga people see this and *gawd* is it
>*intensely* annoying and aggravating, as I'm sure everyone who read my posts
>will agree.
>  Although I have noticed that a few of the staunch PC people have seemed to
>calm down a bit, which was another reason for the postings... to refute
>*everything* bad that was said about the Amiga, whether it was true or not,
>and to post junk and sometimes totally false and inaccurate information about
>other systems sounding like I knew everything about them, just like is done
>here for most of the postings, but in a reverse situation also. It even
>appears
>Marc Barrett has learned how bad this type of posting is (although I admit
>several of my postings were a "bit" worse than Marc's. His posts in the main
>groups seem to have vanished. I even flamed an Amiga person, with an
intensely
>sarcastic attitude!(my attitude, not his). Sorry Tony :-). Goodness, I guess
>it kinda got out of hand.
 
><insert Eddie Hascell(sp?) voice with finger pointing> I hope you all learned
>your lesson <end of Eddie Hascell(sp?) voice and with finger pointing> :-)
 
>John Anderson
 
Ok, John. Here's a repost. It's the least I can do after that time you
happened to be driving by, saw our burning housed, rushed in through the
flames, and carried each of my family members to safety... besides the
time you jumped the guy that was holding us hostage, then fought with him,
wrestled the gun away, knocked him out, tied him up, and called the police.
 
btw, the last time I tried the repost, there were problems with the reply
and header.
 

What *is* a sig... *really*...
From: hawk@pnet01.cts.com (Hi. John. Anderson.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: PCs are the godsend. The will triumph over the world. : -)
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:16:08 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA


>>>OK John, then maybe this'll do.  I'm an Amiga user, so in your view, I'm in
>>>"my" group, right? OK, so shut the hell up.  You're getting as annoyning as
>>>Marc Barrett, and starting to remind me of Thomas Hill (ala ST basher).
>>
>>>Tony Poole
>>
>>Oh! Dan Stephenson's gonna eat this one up!
>>
>>btw, I don't recall asking for your opinion
 
>BFD, I gave it to you.  Who asked for your opinion or voice on ANYTHING?
 
>Why don't you just give it a rest???  Please?
 
>I put you in my kill file, but I still end up reading your crap through
>follow-ups.  What do you think you are proving by playing Mr. Broken Record?
 
  Ok. Since you asked so nicely. Seriously. I think I've had my fun. One
person shouldn't be allowed to have this much fun. I think I win the award
for the person in the most kill files :-) Since I'm in so many kill files, I
imagine 80% of the people here won't be reading this ;^), unless someone
quotes it and re-prints it. I do agree I might have gone a bit overboard,
but I was just trying to show.... hmmmm, I don't really know *what* I was
trying to show.. perhaps I was showing how the record approach ala Marc
Barrett can be *very* annoying. The Amiga people see this and *gawd* is it
*intensely* annoying and aggravating, as I'm sure everyone who read my posts
will agree.
  Although I have noticed that a few of the staunch PC people have seemed to
calm down a bit, which was another reason for the postings... to refute
*everything* bad that was said about the Amiga, whether it was true or not,
and to post junk and sometimes totally false and inaccurate information about
other systems sounding like I knew everything about them, just like is done
here for most of the postings, but in a reverse situation also. It even
appears
Marc Barrett has learned how bad this type of posting is (although I admit
several of my postings were a "bit" worse than Marc's. His posts in the main
groups seem to have vanished. I even flamed an Amiga person, with an intensely
sarcastic attitude!(my attitude, not his). Sorry Tony :-). Goodness, I guess
it kinda got out of hand.
 
<insert Eddie Hascell(sp?) voice with finger pointing> I hope you all learned
your lesson <end of Eddie Hascell(sp?) voice and with finger pointing> :-)
 


UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!hawk
ARPA: crash!pnet01!hawk@nosc.mil                 
INET: hawk@pnet01.cts.com
From: foax@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:06:40 EDT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1992Jul27.002936.25044@cs.rose-hulman.edu>,
catapcnl@Rose-Hulman.Edu. (Chris Lawrence) writes: 
> 
> 68000-based machines have been incorrectly compared to Intel 8086/88's *too  
> many times*, and for that matter to the 286.  The 68000 was designed to begin  
> with as a predecessor to the 020/030/040, whereas the 8088 was *never*  
> designed to work as a subset of a true 32-bit processor (like the 386).
> This cripples the later Intel machines (backward compatability with the 286
> and 8086/88), but does not hurt the later Motorolas as much (except for the
> idiots that were using 24-bit addressing against guidelines).  As a matter
> of fact, if IBM had never built an 8088-based PC, the whole world would be
> better off processor-wise.

I agree, it's rather difficult to compare two lines of processors like the
680x0 and 80x86 series.  It doesn't hurt that the Motorola machines were
designed later, either.  And the computing world might well be better off
if IBM had chosen Motorola over Intel.  (There were quite a few other CPU
makers they could have chosen instead which you didn't mention.)

But Motorola wasn't in the cards.  At the time the IBM PC came out, the CP/M
world was quite important, and it relied on Intel and Intel-compatible
processors:  the 8080, the 8085, and the Z80 (by Zilog).  While the 8088
wasn't hardware compatible with these, it was similar enough that porting
hardware and software to it was much easier than it would have been with
the 68000.  While this compatibility may not in retrospect have had much
effect on the machine's future, it's easy to imagine IBM execs worrying
about the issue at that time, considering that their previous attempt to
introduce a personal computer (I don't remember the model number) had been
a dismal failure.

And while backward compatibility with the 8086 and 80286 may have made the
386, 486, etc. less efficient than they otherwise could have been, it has
also ensured their success in a market where owners don't want to junk
their old equipment or programs and software and hardware suppliers don't
want to have to retrain themselves.  Besides, from the figures I've heard
the efficiency difference can't be more than 20-30%, and is largely
outweighed by the fact that all Motorola machines are proprietary, higher-
priced platforms (compared to clones) with smaller market share in hardware
and software.  Besides, most people don't even know about the efficiency
difference.
-- 

--Colin Howell			email to howell@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu
--Cornell Astronomy Dept.	(hopefully switching to computer science)
From: barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: comp.sys.amiga.BLAZEMONGER
Keywords: frog
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:33:26 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

>In comp.sys.amiga.advocacy another guy named Barrett writes:
>>	Now, if you wanted to form a comp.sys.amiga.BLAZEMONGER newsgroup, I
>>might be interested. :-)

In article <haley.711668826@unixg.ubc.ca> haley@unixg.ubc.ca (Ross MacGregor) writes:
>Yeah, wouldn't want to miss the good stuff!  What ever became of
>comp.os.BLAZEMONGER?  I don't seem to be picking it up anymore :-(

	The problem is due to buggy news software.  I don't think it's
possible for newsgroup names to have capital letters in them (someone
please correct me if I'm wrong).  Therefore, we can't spell BLAZEMONGER
properly, and the c.o.B. newsgroup got dropped.

>I tried installing a cracked version of the OS on my 3000 (no manual
>lookup when clicking on icons).  It turned it into a frog, i think i have
>a bad config file.
>Help.

	That's what you get for shoving tadpoles into your floppy drive.

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////

ps:  Gleeep is COMING!  No, really!!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rb345@rbhp39.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Matthias Meixner)
Subject: Re: A4000 article
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:33:56 GMT
Organization: TH Darmstadt
Keywords: A4000, new, Amiga

>This is typed from the _AMIGA news_ newspaper, volume 1 no. 7.
>
>
>			The A4000
>		The Scoop on Commodore's Newest!
>			 by Anon
>
>I've been chomping at the bit to speak out and right now I just don't care
>about the non-disclosure agreement.  We have been beta-testing the A4000 and
>another model which may be called the A1000 Classic, A800, or possibly some
>other name.  ... 

This article already went through the network some months ago, and it was said to
be a fake. Therefore better forget it, and wait for Commodore to officially
release new amigas.

Bye, Matthias
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: DEC/Commodore Agreement
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 20:24:59 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>What's with the "my way is the One True Way" attitude?

I cannot believe who is asking this question.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: catapcnl@NeXTWork.Rose-Hulman.Edu. (Chris Lawrence)
Subject: Re: OH MY GOD...I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I JUST SAW
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:00:27 GMT


In article <1992Jul27.205604.4059@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu  
(Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
:WOW... a ... a ... a ... commercial.  What a concept... maybe some of
:those new CBM marketing execs secretaries actually came up with an idea
:while his/her boss was sleeping, forged his signature for authorization,
:and slipped it through the mail slot.
:
:Thom

ROTFL... :-D
--
Chris Lawrence
Pretender to the Throne; Destroyer of the Faith
-----------------------------------------------
"To say that a small percentage of Americans should be treated better than the  
other 90+% due to past injustice is the act of freeloaders, not responsible  
human beings." - Chris Lawrence, RE Affirmative Action
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: Atari Lynx and Amiga   Re: Falcon Rumor?
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 06:43:55 GMT

I've seen more Lynx commercials (four recently, for the first time,
co-ordinated with Batman Returns) than I've seen Amiga commercials,
advertisements by CBM for it, in any publication or media outside of
Amigaworld.

Which is pretty sad, considering CBM size versus Atari.

Thom
From: dudley@cebaf9.cebaf.gov (John Dudley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Commodore and the Osborne Syndrome
Date: 27 Jul 92 12:43:13 GMT
Reply-To: dudley@cebaf9.cebaf.gov (John Dudley)
Organization: CEBAF (Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility)


|> 	The release date came and went with no product coming out.
|> The flamers said "See?  I told you!"  The developer said "we are just
|> waiting for FCC approval -- the product is done."  People shouted "Why
|> haven't there been any magazine reviews yet?!?"  More people yelled,
|> and others got angry, etc etc etc etc etc.
|> 
|> 	And you think .advocacy is bad.  1/2 :-)
|> 
|>                                                         Dan
|> 
|>  //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
|> | Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research
|> Center |
|> | University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  -- 
|> barrett@cs.umass.edu |
|> 
|>
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//////////////////////////////////
////
|> 

 Well first of all, you can't just tell the FCC "Hey, approve my product
NOW." You have to wait until
THEY finish all of their testing.  Second, I believe it was Amazing
Computing Magazine that DID
have a review on it.
From: u9148043@cs.uow.edu.au (Justin Jay Lister)
Subject: Re: PC's vs. mortals
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 05:05:49 GMT

nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:

>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>>nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
>>>leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:

>>>>on the Amiga... just add it.  And then run as many programs as you want 
>>>>till they run out... without addressing conflicts or other BS.

>>>I continue to run programs even after memory runs out, until the hardisk is
>>>full.  And I don't have to worry about one program crashing and bringing
>>>down the entire system either.

>>Why do you do this?  Is your system low on memory, or does each application
>>require excessive amounts?  Are you using OS/2 2.0?  Thanks.

>Yes I am running OS/2 2.0.  Currently I have about 6 or 7 apps running, 2
>OS/2 command shells, one DOS command shell, a PM terminal program that I'm
>writing this stuff in, a couple small utilities to monitor CPU load and
>swap file size, clock, scren saver, etc.  My swap file is at 4 meg, I think
>I only once ran out of virtual memory, something that has to do with
>Windows, I don't run Windows stuff anymore as a result.

Amazing, now they realise what we have been doing on the amiga for the last
7 yrs, but offcourse ours is only 256k (512k KS2.04) well surely thereis is
better (bigger = better) and they only need 8meg to run comfortably (again
bigger = better). On the topic of intsallation ask em how long it takes em
to get os/2 going nicely harrrh harrrh ( friend of mine on 486sx/25 who 
installs stuff all in his box, 3 mother bd's multiple scsi hd multiple com
etc.. ) he being trying for the last week to get os/2 to give 1k*800 on his
system (searching bbs for drivers and trying to config it for the correct 
screen rate) looks good a black screen. Hmm amiga pop push a chip. (run a 
file at beggining of startup-sequence) o well guess we lose again ;)
>-- Nan
-- 
|.####...#....#..######.| Amiga 2000 HD 120+5Meg  &  Amiga 500              |
|.#...#..#....#..#......|   email:  u9148043@cs.uow.edu.au                  |
|.####...#....#..###....|If it is worth doing, then do it properly -Use AMI |
|.#...#...####...#......|DONT ASK IF I WANT A FERRARI JUST GIVE ME A PORSCHE|
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:58:45 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>
>Turbo C++ 3.1 takes 30Megs for full blown installation.  I've seen either
>Jerry Shenkhel or Dan Stephenson post that a full blown OS/2 2.0 installation
>takes 40Megs - including online manual and everything.  That's 70Megs of
>stuff to fit on a 60MB hard drive :)  Even at 30 Megs each, you don't have
>any HD left for VM or source code or PD programs (or ...).
>

OS/2 2.0 takes 33MB on my system -- that's a full installation.
Borland C++ 3.1 -- on my system it's about 22MB, but I don't have the
Application Frameworks (Windows/DOS GUI C++ class libraries).

>
>Frankly, my friends who have 120Meg drives on their PCs (they use DOS) say
>that they need more HD space...  As well, you could use Stacker or some other
>HD compression to make some room, but I neither trust these apps nor would I
>want my Compiler or OS to be decompressing my commonly used files all the time -
>slows everything way down :)
>

Not really.  With a decent CPU, the fact that less data is being read
from the disk balances out the extra CPU time spent decompressing the data.
On the other hand, it would probably hurt multitasking systems more than it
hurts DOS.

Mike, please learn to spell my name.

>
>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young)
Subject: Re: Atari Lynx and Gameboy
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 18:05:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.040253.19077@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> benw@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (bennett.weber) writes:
>
>Same here in New Jersey...Lynx software gets almost no shelf space
>compared to Gameboy.  My wife works for Lionel Kiddie City (toy store
>chain) and she says that the Gameboys sell like hotcakes, while the
>Lynx sales are few and far between.

I have not heard of Lionel store too but I am sure it is very
good store.  If you wife work at Electronic Boutique, Good Guys,
GameXpress, Game Dude, Video Games Japan.. she will SELL OUT
of Lynxs!!

>
>Being the better system doesn't necessarily pay the bills...

You forget Atari makes BEST GAMES too, so Nintendo Gameboy
now ported Centipede, Missile command, Asterroids.. and Atari
said they will make many millions of dollars from license
of games!  So Gameboy sales will pay bills for Atari too!!
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:44:45 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <al158305.711824179@academ01>, al158305@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Gustavo Cordova Avila) writes:
>    Yeah! BUT!!!!! A '386 isn't akin to a 68k processor, more like the '286
> is comparable, external 16bit architectures, etc etc. I mean, the '386
> has virtual modes and all than. If you are to keen to compare the '386
> processor to something Motorola has, compare it to the '030, which is
> much more similar, and also was released at about the same year or something
> like that.
> 
>    COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES!!!

This is an old, old argument on this newsgroup.  My contention is that we
should compare systems by performance, capabilities, *and* price.  Yes, the
386 is newer than the 68000 and has more capabilities.  On the other hand,
judging from what I've heard, comparably equipped A500 and 386 clones are
roughly equivalent in price and can be legitimately compared to one another.

In fact, despite some pro-clone advocates' claims to the contrary, the A500
does not necessarily lose the comparison.  It's integrated chipset, video
capabilities, and excellent operating system may fit the needs of some users
better than the 386 system.

Incidentally, we usually seem to end up discussing the A500 and the A3000.
Does Commodore still make the A1000 and A2000?  If so, what are their
capabilities and costs?

>    Sure you can run a command line box in windows, BUT NOT ON A 286!!
> Which is a similar processor to the amiga's (in age and physical design?)

Actually, if all you want is a command line box, you can have that in Windows
on a 286 with a neat shareware utility.  What the 286 can't do is multitask
multiple DOS sessions.  A 386, of course, can (yes, I know it doesn't pre-
emptively multitask).

> have fun.

Always.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------