From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Date: 27 Jul 92 00:26:58 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: SCA

[NOTE: The following is an in-persona response to an in-persona posting.]

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings
and prayers for the blessings of Allah, most especially to the most learned
Yaakov HaMizrachi.

The most learned Yaakov wrote:

>It pains me to take issue with such illustrious,
>learned, and honorable men. But, as the Torah
>commands us, 'Do not stand by the blood of your
>neighbor.'  Therefore do I rise in defense of
>Christian Von Juaregg and his filk-post.

Learned brother, I fear that you are mistaken.  I did not reply to Christian
von Juaregg's writing of a filk.  At the time I ignored it, on the same
principle that one ignores one who breaks wind during the ritual prayers --
it may defile him, but it does no harm to others in itself and what harm
it does to he who does it is on his head, as the Prophet, may peace and
blessings be upon him, has said.  My comments were in general defense of
Stephan, who was accused of discourtesy.  In my writing I made general
comments about filking, and if von Juaregg fell within that category it
was by his doing, not mine.  I appeal to the same dictum of the Prophet
Musa, peace be upon him, in the Tavrut, "Do not stand by the blood of your
neighbor."  I spoke only in defense of Stephen.

>My Lords, You say then that you are blunt,
>and that as your words are true thy blutness]
>is to your praise.  Perhaps, but was not Korach
>also blunt, when he chastised Moses and Aaron?
>To state the most basic rule of courtesy (on
>one foot), it is as our Master Hillel (blessed is
>the memory of the righteous) says: Do not do unto
>others that which is hateful to you.

I answer with _ahadith_:

The Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "Admonish your
brothers not in flowery words but in the plain truth of God."

Imam Ali, peace be upon him, said, "Speak the truth without fear or concern,
for God protects the truth and prizes it above all else."

On another occasion, Imam Ali, peace be upon him, said, "The hurt done by
words of truth is nothing beside the hurt done by falsity or ignorance, for
the sting of truthful words is for a moment, but the hurt of falsity or
ignorance is the fire of hell."

>Ah, but perhaps you will say: I crave bluntness,
>therefore will I be blunt. Moreh d'Avraham!
>That is not what our Master meant in his text.
>Rather thanthe specific act think of the feeling
>you inflict with your words.  Would you like to be
>humiliated before your peers?  Have you artistic
>works spat upon in public?  I think not.  Had you
>wished to offer correction, you might have used
>a private communication.

Again, most learned Yaakov, you misunderstand.  The Prophet Muhammad, peace
and blessings be upon him, said, "No man knows the heart of another man, but
only his deeds."  I cannot speak for Christian von Juaregg and his feelings.
In fact, I did not speak of Christian von Juaregg at all, except insofar
as he fell within a category by virtue of his own deed.  I did not so much
as speak his name.  For myself, if I have erred, I would rather that my 
corrector spoke bluntly to me, even if the correction were hurtful, than that 
I should persist in error.  Since I spoke of Bertram's words on Stephen, I saw 
no reason to address my words to Christian von Juaregg, privately or otherwise.

>Now, having stated the general rule, let us
>move to the specific case.  Christian Von Jauregg
>be a worthy story teller and a beginning bard.
>Though cursed with inexperience and youth, I have
>heard it said that many good bards have overcome
>such handicaps.  Now, it is my great good fortune
>to live in the same barony as this man, and to
>have had his assistance in running a recent event.

May Allah strengthen him in the right path!

>Now, admittedly, this may seem of little more than
>local interest, and so perhaps he might be
>faulted for posting to the world.  But this
>was not -if I perceive aright- your complaint.
>You did protest the very essence, the very nature
>of the poem. Nay, you made it plain to all that it
>was an affront to your most basic senses, as it
>should be to all right thinking and civilized
>peoples.
>But why did this song so rouse your ire.
>Hossein speaks of a 'crusade against filk'
>with Stephen as Captian and Standard bearer.
>Yet why do you regard it as so evil?  Perhaps
>one small item escaped you. Look around lords.
>This be no event, no campground, not even
>a post revel. THIS IS A COMPUTER SCREEN AND YOU
>ARE READING IT WITH AN OPP DEVICE!  How, then,
>do Christian's words break thy mood?  Surely we
>shall not all be in persona in our posts,
>else we had all (save, perhaps, the learned
>Dr Pergrinus) cease at once.  Nor did Christian
>ever sing this song at an event. Nor, as far as I
>can tell, did he ever intend to do so.  It
>was but a passing fancy, shared with us in
>innocent joy and fallen as first victim to
>your new 'crusade.'  So, since you cannot be
>objecting to filk at *events* (for this was
>not one) I can but conclude that you must object'
>to filk itself.  And so, again, I ask you,
>as the song is not at an event, and deals with
>SCA (albiet local) matters, what strikes
>you as so evil that you must trounce on a young
>man's creative work and hold him up to ridicule?

Again, most learned one, forgive me, but you are mistaken.  First, Tibor
informs us that young Christian performed this work at a period poetry
session.  If Tibor is mistaken, please tell me.  Second, I was perhaps
wrong to think that I should not have commented when the poem was first
circulated on this bridge.  Perhaps my analogy to the rules of _taharot_
was in error, for why should one circulate such a work except that others
should read it, learn from it, and perform it?  If others were to perform
this work, would it not fall under the saying of the Prophet, peace and 
blessings be upon him, "Give not to the believers what will harm them"?
The crusade of which I speak is the _jihad al-nafs_, the crusade against
weakness in ourselves.  For is it not weakness that leads us to intrude
the inappropriate into our events, and to give encouragement by wide
circulation of such a thing is unfortunate at best.

>So, I say you sirs, be not as the follows of Korach,
>but as the followers of Aaron, who, our sages of
>blessed memory tell us, ever strove for peace with
>his fellows.

May peace and blessings be upon Harun!  Yet, I would be follower of al-Husayn,
peace be upon him, prince of martyrs, who spoke truth to the accursed Yazid 
with word and the sword, even though it cost him his life at Karbala.

If I given offense, I crave pardon, but I do not think that my defense of
Stephen was such offense, nor do I think that Stephen deserves such
chastisement.  As for Christian von Juaregg, I mean neither hurt nor harm
to him, and if he is needful of chastisement, it is more your place, as
a learned one among his people, than mine to provide it.

May the peace of Allah be with you always, my brother.

Hossein Ali Qomi
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca