From: JKH107@psuvm.psu.edu (Joy Haftel)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: The March in D.C.
Date: 11 Apr 92 01:37:05 GMT
 <92099.171526JKH107@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Apr10.180241.6251@nas.nasa.gov>
Organization: HAM--Hackers Against MUDs

In article <1992Apr10.180241.6251@nas.nasa.gov>, dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan
King) says:
>
>jh>In article <92099.171526JKH107@psuvm.psu.edu> Joy Haftel
><JKH107@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>rb>In article <17805@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald
>Bense)
>rb>says:
>jh>What about not killing it at all unless it's absolutely necessary?

>Would it ease your conscience if we legislated abortion to the extent
>that the physician must ask the woman "Is this abortion absolutely
>necessary" and if she replys yes, then she can get a safe and legal
>abortion?  Or did you want to be the judge of what constitutes absolute
>necessity?

Me, please.  Everyone who wants to have an abortion has to go through
me.  They must all journey to central Pennsylvania, find mutually
agreeable time, go through three days of counselling, and then I will
decide whether they can have one or not.

>rb>have made the leap of faith here that you are not bothered by killing
>rb>the roach or fly or flea, organisms that are much more complex than
>rb>an 8 week old fetus in that they are fully functional and can fend for
>rb>themselves.

>jh>Neither are newborns fully functional and able to fend for themselves.
>jh>Yet we don't condone killing them.

>But if you believe that it is important that a newborn is protected, you
>will be able to make the necessary sacrifices to ensure the newborns
>safety.  You would be able to take care of the newborn if the parents
>are unable or unwilling.  This is currently impossible at the time
>the majority of abortions are performed.  Since you can not take over
>for the woman involved, I don't believe it is any of your business
>with what she does with her body.  You can disapprove if you want, but
>you should not be allowed to legislate her action.
 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I'm not interested in legislation, Dan.  I don't think it would solve
anything.  What I would like to do--and what I would do if I had 10000
bodies and a host of angels is go around the country and find out
all the reasons women have abortions, and what can be done to prevent
them (within reasonable limits; I'm talking persuasion, material aid,
medical care, etc.).

But as for legislation, Dan, I am not Congress, thank God.  As far as my
vote goes, I am allowed to vote for whatever I want.  It's called
a democratic system.  So don't try to dictate my vote, and I won't
try to dictate yours.  Everyone according to her own conscience.
I find it suprising that the only people who ever tried to make me
vote a certain way was Penn State Pro-Choice.  Kind of turned me off
to the movement then & there. (I'm kind of a bastard pro-choicer--I
think abortions should remain legal because society does not benefit
from making it illegal, and if it must be done, it must.  But I still
don't *like* it.  So I have sympathies on both sides).

>body for support, it must leave.  If the only possible way for it to
>leave, in a timely and safe for the woman manner, is by killing it,
>that is unfortunate, but not worthy of legislation.

Legislation, bah.  If that's all we have to solve our problems, we
are in trouble indeed.  I just want to prevent preventable abortions
by peaceful means and stress to anyone considering an abortion what
a serious decision it is (some know it already, others don't).
There are many rationalizations for abortion that I find apalling.

Examples:  The child is unwanted and will have a terrible life.
           No one wants to adopt a minority baby.
(The sad part is that these are partly true, and even more appalling.
The underlying subtext--that unwanted children and minority children are
not worth saving or caring for--is as full of shit as anything I can think.
I can think of unwanted children and minority children (adopted) that are
very glad indeed to be alive)

Joy Haftel               "him whose strenuous tongue
JKH107@PSUVM              Can burst Joy's grape against his palate fine;
                            His soul shall taste the sadness of her might,
                                And be among her cloudy trophies hung."
                                   --Keats