From: sadhal@alhena.usc.edu (Sati Sadhal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: World Culture and Western Culture
Date: 30 Sep 1992 12:18:18 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: alhena.usc.edu



In article <JMC.92Sep29124216@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>I think I can agree with all that Brijnandan S. Dehiya posts.  I didn't
>know that the British ban on sati was instigated by Indian reformers.


>I didn't even realize there were Indian reformers so early.
>
Dr. McCarthy: This statement smacks not only of ignorance but
	also arrogance about the state of ignorance. Haven't you
	heard of Indian reformers such as Buddha, Guru Nanak, 
	Mahavir? They came on the face of the earth centuries
	before the British came to rule India.

>Let me return to the original questions.
>
>1. Is there a world culture today?
>
>2. Is it substantially based on European culture?  The non-European
>influences on European culture are secondary to this question.
>Benevolence or greed or lack thereof also have nothing to do with it.
>
If culture was defined as a group of ideologies that govern daily living,
then I propose that `culture' is made up of 

	(1) 	Political ideologies
	(2)	Religion
	(3)	Science & Technology
	(4)	Literature, Arts, Entertainment & Language.
	(5)	Social Problems (Crime and Law)

This list is by no means complete. But let us examine it.

(1) Political ideologies are today predominantly Western, whether
we talk of Communism, Socialism or Capitalism. Democracy certainly
	has Western roots. But democracy never came to be practised 
	by the West until recently. United States did not have
	democracy until 1965. Britain, while internally democratic,
	miserably failed in the practice of democracy over 1 billion
	of their citizens. The highest elected official in a colonial
	nation was the mayor. The Chief of Police was above him, and
	was appointed by the colonial governor. 
	
(2) The four major religions of the world are Christianity, Islam,
	Hinduism and Buddhism. The first two have their origins
	in the Middle East and the latter two in the East. The 
	principles are Eastern or Middle Eastern. Of course, there
	have been Western reforms to Christianity, e.g., by Martin 
	Luther, etc. 

	Nevertheless, some ideas practised by the West are definitely
	not Christian. Western Europe has had this unsatiable desire
	to colonize, take over, and rule over other people. Britain,
	France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Spain, Italy all have
	committed this crime. Wherever they could, they have wiped 
	out the native populations. This is neither Christianity
	nor is it culture. It is Barbarianism. Let me also remind
	you that the South African Dutch Reform Christian Church 
	believes that it their religious duty to subjugate the natives
	and rule over them.  	

	Largely, majority of the world population practices religion
	based on Eastern or Middle Eastern ideas, speaking of Islam,
	Hinduism and Buddhism.


	
(3) Science & Technology: The West has a definite claim to modern
	science. However, there are fundamental foundations that
	came from the East. For example, the present system of 
	numerals (base 10, the significance of zero) came from 
	India. These so-called Arabic numbers were given to the 
	Europeans by the Arabs who got them from India. Algebra
	also came from the East. Could the West have advanced
	technologically without this help from the East? Probably
	yes. However, the important question is that could the
	East have advanced technologically, if the West had not
	stopped them from doing so?  
	
	The West having ruled Eastern nations found this enormous
	market on which they could impose their products with the
	rule of the law (you should have lived in a British colony
	to experience this). Naturally, there was a need for mass
	production by the West (and hence, the Industrial Revolution) 
	These mass produced goods were to
	be the only ones allowed to be sold in those markets. For,
	example, the British government in Kenya did not give 
	licenses to local industrialists to manufacture
	nails, pots and pans -- items that could be manufactured
	there. 	

	You also know that the British government in India did not
	allow the locals to make SALT. They had to have the monopoly.
	
	So the West went full force with the industrial revolution
	while the East had to watch all this and worry about where
	the next meal would come from.

As much as the West would have independently found the Indo-Arabic 
numerals, the East would have found the modern technology, had it
ruled over the masses of the world. 	

(4)	Language: Chinese is the most spoken language today. English
	is second. The majority of the world speaks a non-Western 
	language as a first language. On top of that most of
	the Western languages (the Indo-European) have their origins 
	in Sanskrit. This is one example that would fit into a World 
	Culture that you speak of. 

	You did mention in an earlier post about the superiority of
	Western Culture. Well, certainly not when it comes to 
	languages. With most European languages, the
	phonetics are downright senseless. You know how you can write
	`GHOTI' to sound like `FISH.' Indian languages, on the
	other hand, have a sense of perfection that you would 
	only realize if you learnt one. You can chop a word without
	altering the sound of each piece.  

	MUSIC: There are  both Eastern and Western forms of music in
	the world today. I would say that it is 50-50.

	ENTERTAINMENT: India still leads the world in movie 
	production. These are seen in the Middle East, South
	East Asia, North Africa and Russia. 

	In SPORTS, the West clearly leads the World. 
	
	In LITERATURE, again the West produces the most. 
	But the West has also been good at destroying other 
	literature. Julius Caesar burned so many libraries
	in Egypt and wiped out centuries of literary works. 

 	  
(5) Incarceration rate seems most prevalent where there is Western
	influence. United States leads the world in incarceration 
	rate. One American in 230 in in jail right now. The number
	two in the world in South Africa, followed by the X-SSR.
	The rest of the world simply pales compared to these
	countries. Of course, there are many western countries
	such as Britain, Canada, etc., where the incarceration
	rate is very much lower.  

>3. Assuming there is pretty much of a world culture, what are the
>exceptions to its prevalence in various countries, e.g. India, that
>seem destined to survive?
>

The question is somewhat irrelevant. If you wish to define a world
culture, India being in the world, and also being a contributor to this
world culture, is not an exception to it. 


>The reason for raising these questions is the American debate about
>basing required college courses on "western civilization".
>--
>John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
>*


>He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
>
This line is getting boring. Try another one. Besides, try doing
your multiplication in Western (Roman) numerals, and you will
need help from Shakuntala Devi. 
 
                            ------ SSSadhal
				   sadhal@alhena.usc.edu

			XXX September, MCMXCII, Anno Domini















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