From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Religion and Politics (was: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT...)
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:31:56 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

>Danny Keren writes:

#aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:

#We could say that this is the reason for a continuing message from
The Almighty :-).  
>
>Ah, if only these messages would come with a certified signature! :-)

:-)  I think that practice went out after the Ten Commandments.  :)
Blessed is he who has not seen and believes :)

#We could also say that is the reason for the
political unrest in the Middle East - that outside forces want to
permanently destroy that fine line in Islam/Islamic governments.
>
>Nop. Arab countries have been causing most of the damage. Look
at the Egypt-Yemen war, the civil war in Lebanon, the Iran-Iraq
war, etc etc. You can't blame the West and/or Israel for all
of these.

Do you care to elaborate a little here?  Do you believe that
Israel had no part in Lebanon's civil war?

Of course we shouldn't let the blame solely rest on Israel and
the West's shoulders.  That would not be completely fair.  But
you must admit that many of the situations throughout history
were precipitated and supported by the West because of their
wanting to maintain political influence and power and in
supporting (and allowing to exist) certain regimes which follow
in accordance with their ideological system.

This is the basis of the capitalist system - to be the superpower -
the 'policeman' of the world.  With helping to create states such
as Israel, that foothold of power is extended and kept in tact.
In situations like Lebanon, it is not because of Israel specifically,
or religion for that matter (even though we know that the different
religious factions want to cease control), but the intervention by
the West and monetary and military support of these different groups
by the authoritarian regimes which continue the political strife.

#One may also claim that the assimilation of religious people in
foreign lands (and especially the occupation of foreign-secular
governments in traditional lands) creates the destruction of
cultural, socio-religious structure.
>
>This is unfortunately correct, and it happens all over the world.
It seems religion has to find new ways to fight the challenge
presented to it by liberalism, science, and freedom. However,
instead of modifying, religion seems to become more and more
prohibitive and narrow-minded. I think this is true to a large
extent of all major religions.

I follow along with your reasoning; however, I think what I have
always tried to stress here (in so many words) is that to the
non-Muslims, an Islamic system is suppression and followers/supporters
of such are backward, ignorant, etc.  This holds true in the case
of the Chassidic Jews - in the United States as well as in the
secular state of Israel (I am told to a certain degree).

My point is that people as a whole should try to work together to
not only understand and respect the different societies that do not
follow the standard separation of 'church and state' philosophy, and
to assist them in establishing a state where there is a solid foundation
of trust and appreciation of their own, what they feel, democratic
processes in accordance with their soveriegnity.  I don't feel, that
there is a 'standard' and accepted policy that should be imposed on
everyone.  That is what personal freedom and individuality are - to
try and demolish that is bigotry and superiority, which is really the
main problem here.  We can give the United States as a prime example
and the civil rights movement in the 60's/70's, dating back to the
formation of the fifty states.

I understand what you are suggesting and am not trying to purposely
oppose or refuse your logic here.  I agree with you to a certain
degree how a religious structure is not suitable for everyone and
should not be imposed on everyone.  But you should not deny or
impose a non-religious and capitalistic/imperialistic structure in
a very traditionalist society either.  And we know how elections
play a part in this process of decifering.  Unfortunately, we see
how this is intervened in only when beneficial to the West, while
suggesting that it is itself democratic and does not, itself
practice equal and civil rights for peoples in its own nation.
 
#Then what was the reason God sent prophets to the people?
>
>Have you seen any prophets lately? We are in desperate need of
one.

:-)  Don't you people believe that Rabbi Menachem Schneerson is
a prophet?  :-)  Funny how he doesn't even set foot in Yisrael ...
We are all looking for a miracle - for the Supreme Guidance.  But
maybe we can help each other by making peace together ... you
know, brotherly love and acceptance.

#And is the political concept of Zionism?  Why make historical
claims based on Biblical testament then?
>
>The word "Zionism" has been abused to such an extent that it 
hardly has any common interpretation anymore. Personally, I
reject claims to land made on Biblical texts.

Hmmm..... very interesting.  So you are not a Zionist?

Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast