HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Unescorted Minors at Events
Keywords: minors releases
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:01:38 GMT
Organization: Progress Software Corp.

Hal Ravn asks the excellent question:
            [ . . ]  but what do you do to persuade the parents (on
  behalf of the minor) that the SCA is a legitimate organization without
  nefarious designs upon their child?  Just *how* do you persuade the
  narrow minded that no harm is intended, etc. etc.?  These are the
  things that need to be done *before* the minor can be taken to an
  event.

I suppose it depends, Hal, on what sort of reservations they have.
Many of the "It's a Cult" reactions can be handled by sheer
openess.  Invite the adult along, be candid about bad parts of
the SCA.  In your case, Hal, let them meet your kids, who are
active (I can't do that, I have no kids).  Warn them that, should
their child enjoy the SCA too much, they may neglect their homework
to make garb and such.

If the parent isn't afraid of the SCA as a cult, but is afraid it
is a little too weird, I really have no idea how to help.  Frankly,
I agree that the SCA is a little weird.  Here in New England, we
can point to dozens of similar sorts of groups that do Revolutionary
War or Civil War recreation, or we can talk about other Medieval
groups like Acre or Markland.

I usually answer the "weirdness" question with great candor, since
it is a standing joke with some friends of mine that when I first
encountered the SCA, I thought it was "the stupidest hobby an adult
could ever have."  I was originally persuaded to hang out with the
SCA by the quality of the people I was meeting, and the fun I would
have with them, and later discovered that the middle ages and
renaissance are fun and interesting. all on their own.

On a Bertramesque Tangent, have you noticed that sometimes strangers
from the SCA feel more like old friends than some of your old
friends?  As part of playing chauffeur for some of the Board
Members last night, I drove them to a restaurant for dinner.  I
was fascinated, on a meta-level, to note how comfortable they were
to be around, how the conversation seemed to flow.  And this is
only the latest instance in an ongoing series of friends newly
met.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: One Oh
Organization: University of Toronto -- Office of the Provost
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:44:21 GMT

When I joined the SCA the Reeve was another name for the local exchequer.

Aryk
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Inexpensive, good looking armor
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:17:02 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <718444781.F00011@blkcat.UUCP> Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
>Carolus Malvoix (parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)) writeth:
>
> CP> I take it you have been
> CP> lucky enough to see the pierce-worked-helm-from-hell?
>
>For the benefit of those of us who haven't, could you please tell us about it
>(starting with what "pierce worked" means)?

Well  it's almost covered in panels of brass, filigreed copper,
and likely gold and silver as well. It's certainly shiny enough.
All the filigree and panel work is etched, engraved, and
filigreed to within an inch of it's life. Thousands of hours of
work must have gone into it, and equals in skill anything I have
seen from in period. If you go to pennsic, and duke Tjorkill Khan
is there, make a point of viewing the helm, it's downright 
inspirational.


Pierce work is cutting a sheet of metal almost like a stencil,
or like scroll work in wood.

Carolus Malvoix
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
From: mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ( Mark Richard Dewis)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Re:One Oh
Date: 11 Oct 92 22:48:10 GMT
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston

>>*    Twelve for the Twelve great Kingdoms
>>
>>This line will be true for a few years at least :)
>>
>
>Not so quick :-)  Drachenwald has petitionned the East, and the board
>has approved their request, to go kingdom.   So you need a new 12.

Not until you've got a King, me bucko. :)

(Anyhow, the _Known World Handbook_ will list twelve until at least
the next edition - say, five years ;)

-- Richard of Dunheved.
-- 

mdewis@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au ... but you can call me Richard.
Forma Propositum Perpetuo Praecedit. 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: phil@origami.UUCP ("Phil Freed @ origami --  Welcome to the fold.")
Subject: alchemy
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 03:44:35 GMT

Justin asks:

>Question: how far back did alchemy in the Christian world go? Most of
>the "major" alchemists I've heard about have been pretty late; the
>ones I can think of offhand seem to all be Renaissance. Not that
>Renaissance is OOP, but I *am* curious...

I have one resource (The Alchemists; F. Sherwood Taylor; 1951) which
says it hit the big-time in Europe around 1200-1300 A.D.:

   ... [Alchemy] followed the main stream of learning.  It existed in
   China and India, but we cannot connect these Eastern alchemists with
   the main tradition which emerges in the Near East at a disputable date,
   not later than about 100 A.D.  At that time alchemy was practiced in
   Alexandria and Egypt; it then spread through the Greek-speaking world.
   The Nestorians and Monphysites, exiled from Byzantium, were acquainted
   with the alchemical doctrines and carried these through Syria and Persia
   ( 450-700 A.D.), whence after the rise of Islam, came the learned men
   who translated the texts and gave them to the Arabic-speaking world.

   The Arabs became enthusiastic alchemists.  After 1100, Arabic texts
>> were translated or paraphrased into Latin, and in the thirteenth and
>> fourteenth centuries alchemy spread through the whole of Western
>> Europe, where it continued to flourish exceedingly until, in the late
   seventeenth century, the rise of the modern scientific method made it
   ever less credible.  None the less, a great many alchemical texts
   appeared in the eighteenth century and it was not until the dawn of
   the nineteenth century that the ancient tradition was broken.
  
Taylor goes on to quote an alchemical discussion from The Canterbury
Tales; he says Chaucer was "well-acquainted with alchemy."

--phil
The lord gave us two ends -- one to sit on and the other to think
with.  Success depends on which we use the most.
From: asparrow@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Angelia Sparrow)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Slay the Sea Serpent!
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:45:35 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

My apologies to the Rialto for not having
briefed my fellow shire member on etiquette  

The true theme of the event is the Battle of
Sliuce (sp?) and the sea serpant appears only
at the novelty shoot and the subtltie.

Arethelynda d'Eath, chief cook for Autumn Arrows
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: greg@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Hossein Ali Qomi (mka Gregory F. Rose))
Subject: Re: I am new and need help
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Rialto
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 22:17:07 GMT

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings and
prayers for the blessings of Allah.

Devril recently posted:

>		I am relatively new to the SCA and i am having some trouble
>researching my persona.
>
>Basically I want it to be very much like a king's forester.  
>
>Is that historically accurate.
>Does anyone know what books may be helpful.

Certainly there were royal foresters in England in period.  As for books,
I would recommend:

Charles R. Young.  _The Royal Forests of Medieval England_.  Philadelphia:
	University of Pennsylvania press, 1979.  The bibliography is
	especially useful.

Raymond Grant.  _The Royal Forests of England_.  Wolfeboro Falls, NH: Alan
	Sutton, 1991.  The bibliography isn't as extensive as Young's,
	but worth consulting.

N.D.G. James.  _A History of English Forestry_.  Oxford: Blackwell, 1981.
	Mainly deals with modern forestry, but some interesting information
	on medieval period.

Ralph Whitlock.  _Historic Forests of England_.  Wiltshire: Moonraker Press,
	1979.  Mainly deals with forests rather than foresters, but is
	good for finding locales.

I hope that this is helpful.

Best Wishes,

Hossein/Greg
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Alchemy, ....
Date: 8 Oct 1992 16:00:18 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <9210072250.AA07780@inmet.camb.inmet.com> justin@inmet.camb.inmet.COM (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks) writes:
>
>(I've occasionally played with the notion of putting together a
>Hermetic secret society within the SCA -- could be heapum fun, if
>done carefully...)
>
Secretly would be the way to do it, of course.  Not that anyone here would
complain if they found out--but they easily might've in period, and burning
at the stake is one of the things we least want to re-enact.  (not even
with red crepe paper.)


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: RGUSTAVSON@ocs.dir.texas.GOV
Subject: a request for information
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:40:39 GMT



M'Lords, M'Ladies, Honoured Guests: I pray you, hear this humble request and,
should you find it contain any merit whatsoever, vouchsafe me your wisdom in the
following matter.

I wish to hail the good knights of the kingdoms which follow the river Colorado, in
the region where it flows from below Travis Lake to the southern reaches ofTowne
Lake; that place in the river known as Waterloo.  I wish to meet these good and
gentile knights, and perhaps someday be worthy of accepting a challenge offered
by any one of them.  Alas, this will be most impossible lest I begin my journey
toward becoming a worthy knight.  I beg of you, to assist me in this quest, and I
shall repay you in service on the field and in the lists.

For now, I assure you, I hold you all in the highest regard.  Until such time as we
shall meet, I shall remain in your service, a humble servant of God and Crown.
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why have the SCA, Inc.?
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:38:04 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

Greetings from Arval!  

Discussing local autonomy, Charles Clerk wrote:

> For example, suppose the West decided to start letting the Coronets
> select the Crowns, the Middle decided to select their Crowns by having
> the two finalists meet in a field battle, and the East decided to keep
> selecting theirs by elimination tourneys.  How would this lack of
> standardization harm the Society?

> What if Calontir declared that its period would be strictly 1000-1400,
> and they wanted a higher enforcement of authenticity? What if Trimaris
> decides that they want to specialize in the Orient?  ...they are having
> no negative effect on the Society.

There is a world of difference between the first set of suggestions and the
second.  The first is well worth considering, because it would allow each
kingdom to experiment within the existing medieval structure.  The second,
on the other hand, would fundamentally change the game that people can play
in those kingdoms.  If you simply change the format of Crown Tourney, you
haven't changes what I can choose to do in the Society.  If you restrict
the period available period in one kingdom, then you are forcing me to play
a different game if I happen to live in that kingdom.  Currently, I can go
anywhere in the Society, do the same things I do today, and know that they
will fit in and be appreciated.  If that were not true, then we could not
have a single Society.  I believe, and I think most people in the Society
agree, that we need some minimum standard of uniformity across the Society.
I think that must include the definitions of our goals, scope, and content.
That is not a restriction: It is a Bill of Rights.  It guarantees that each
member can count on certain fundamentals, no matter where he goes.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Authorization and armour requirements
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 13:34:24

 UN>  Is it generally acceptable/legal to wear a sword as part of garb if
 UN> it never clears the scabbard and the wearer is unauthorized?

 Acceptable insofar as it is appropriate for your station in life. A peasant  wouldn't wear one.  Don't think a bard would.  But if you're being the  "gentleman So-and-So, traveling from afar" or "Lord Plume de ma Tante, a  courtier in the 15th c." it would be appropo to have it hanging from your  belt.

 Here are the caveates:  Learn to sit down in it.  Learn how to manage it in a  crowd -- ladies take it rather unkindly when they are poked by hard pointy  things in public * or slapped across the calves by the blade of someone who  didn't control his blade.  You'll have to take it off when you marshall in a  tournament, or when you herald one -- the rule says "No Live Steel on the  field", not just on the fighters.  In some kingdoms you'll have to take it  off before approaching the Thrones in Court.

 It is amusing to read the Italian manuals of 1599 by Negri and Caroso and  find that a gentleman danced wearing his cloak, his hat AND HIS SWORD.  I  have been teaching dance in the Society for a decade and a half, and would be  appalled to have to face weapons on the dance floor.  (Feet are bad enough!  (grin))

 * I said in Public -- what they do in private is between them and the  gentleman....

 -- Vashti


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: leino@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Antti Leino)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: One Oh
Date: 12 Oct 92 09:21:27 GMT
Organization: Keisarillinen Aleksanterin-Yliopisto

In article <1992Oct9.171907.25543@progress.com> schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei) writes:
>Gerhun wrote (about there being 12 kingdoms):
>  Not so quick :-)  Drachenwald has petitionned the East, and the board
>  has approved their request, to go kingdom.   So you need a new 12.
>
>Interesting.  My correspondence with members in Drachenwald, and my
>reading of the Drachenwald mailing list shows that no petion has
>been circulated.

M'lord, you are a bit outdated: the polling is now in progress.  It's
scheduled to end in about a week, so effectively we'll probably know
rather soon whether Drachenwald will become kingdom in the near or the
far future. 

	Pietari

--
Pietari Pentinpoika Uv  ! Aarnimetsa, Drachenwald, East   !
Antti Leino             ! Computing Centre,               ! You'll have to
Antti.Leino@Helsinki.FI ! University of Helsinki, Finland !    swing it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Unescorted Minors at Events
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:33:06 GMT
Keywords: minors releases

In article <1992Oct15.182201.12686@progress.com> schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei) writes:
>Hal Ravn asks the question:
>  Opening the can of worms a little wider:  What does one do if the teen
>  wants to participate and the parents are opposed without understanding
>  what the SCA does?
>
>You can do nothing.  If simple persuasion isn't good enough, what
>else can one do?  The parent may have good, or bad reasons to say
>no, which you are not privvy to.

Agreed--to a point.  All avenues must wide up as persuasion--and firly
gentle at that.

>It may not be too good for the teen, either, to inflame a conflict
>between a child and parent by taking the child's side to strongly.
>There is no telling if this is a healthy family situation.

On the other hand, it may be the best thing to do for the teen.

>As I mentioned in my previous posting, I have learned enough about
>parenting from listening to my wife talk about some of her patients
>at work, to no longer believe that all parents are good or sane.
>Even within the realm of the normal, there's a lot of room for
>different styles.

Somehow.... I wonder if I really want to know about all the myriad
ways families go wrong....

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Unescorted Minors at Events
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:22:28 GMT
Keywords: minors releases

In article <1992Oct16.023710.17778@castle.org> nomad@castle.org (Lee Damon) writes:
>As I understand it (mind you, this is third or fourth hand information)
>a child drowned at an event some years ago. The parents took responsibility
>because they weren't watching the tyke, but their Insurance company
>sued the SCA for neglagence - even though the parents didn't want to.

I don't know about any suit, but the statement about the incident is
substantially correct.  Taking a leaf from Randall Garrett, one could
say that the child drowned that day and died about a year (2?) later.

The father is no longer with us.  The mother holds high and respected
rank in the kingdom--and is in a position to read this discussion.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Drachenwald's future
Date: 13 Oct 92 10:22:43
Organization: University of Uppsala, Sweden
	<1992Sep30.050311.3370@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au>
	<1992Oct8.223902.19407@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au>
	<1b2j1lINN44s@homer.cs.ubc.ca> <1992Oct9.171907.25543@progress.com>
	<atterlep.718853301@vela> <1992Oct12.165743.37091@watson.ibm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: meryl.csd.uu.se
In-reply-to: mittle@watson.ibm.com's message of Mon, 12 Oct 92 16:57:43 GMT

Greetings from William de Corbie!

Arval asks what has happened with the Drachenwald kingdom
plans. I can confirm that the polling is under way. I received
the polling letter about one week ago, and have already replied.
I do not remember what was the deadline for answering, but it
was soon.

William
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Unescorted Minors at Events
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:35:07 GMT
Keywords: minors releases

In article <3231@accucx.cc.ruu.nl> awbaben@accucx.UUCP (Marcel Kramer) writes:
>Hal Ravn wrote:
>H> I believe that point was addressed.  I would rephrase you question to:
>H> Why didn't the adult that brought the teens know s/he needed the
>H> Minor's Waiver and Minor's Medical Waivers signed by the parents?
> 
>About Kingdom Anthropology, could you explain what 'Minor's Medical Waivers'
>are? I think I can guess what 'Minor's Waivers' are but 'Medical Waivers'?
>I've never heard about them. Now, I'm from Drachenwald, outside the US, so
>it's possible that we do things a little different. Or maybe its because 
>I'm a newby. (Well, relatively speaking that is.) :-)

It's a bit of mis-phrasing on my part... That should be "Minor's
Medical *Authorization*".  It authorizes the person(s) named to permit
medical treatment of a minor in the abscence of said minors parent or
legal guardian.  Ecept in immediately life-threatening situations,
doctors and hosipitals won't do anything to or for a minor without the
parents permission--lest their lives be filled with lawyers.
Hospitals routinely *fax* authorization forms and take the replies by
fax these days rather than work on a minor without suitable
permissions.  This is yet another facet of our ongoing fascination
with social contract by lawsuit....

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ... "Autocrat" ...
Date: 8 Oct 1992 15:55:07 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <17978@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> helm@jade.ucdavis.edu writes:
>
>I thought that the current eric was made by Rot Mahne, ....

I remember when Derek and Jania presented the current batch to Their
Majesties, so I'm moderately sure about that.  Perhaps Rot Mahne made
the previous lot?


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: On Barons and Membership
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:00:05 GMT

Now that the discussion on Barons and term limits has come around to
voting, and the suggestion was made that any ruling on such would
probably make the *members* the electorate, I think it appropriate to
note that I heard a suggestion that if the BoD wants to have some
privelege that means something, they could allow members to vote on
BoD members...

(As it happens, I think *voting* on Barons is a Bad Idea.  If the
populace of a Barony wants to petition the King for a new Baron, that
I would support.)

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Dancing; post-period sources...
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 15:33:24

 RW>  Somehow, Strip the Willow doesn't 'feel' early enough to me.  I 
 RW> think it's  the idea of chaining down the entire 
 RW> set of dancers and back up that feels  late - most of the early 
 RW> English Country Dances, even those for "as many as  
 RW> will" tend to form small units of four or six 
 RW> dancers within the set that  you dance the measure 
 RW> with.  It feels later than Fandango, a set for 6  
 Well, you're judging it based on your knowledge of *English* Country 
 Dances.  It's a Scots Reel.  Would you base the accuracy of the Italian 
 dances you know on what you know about English Country?  Apples and 
 oranges.....
     Gwenllian CfM

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca