HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cwis-l
Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:49:58 -0600
From:         "Terry D. Mathias" <GE0515@SIUCVMB.BITNET>
Subject:      Copyright and CWIS
Comments: To: cwis-l@wuvmd.bitnet

Interestingly enough, I had a similar discussion recently with a
librarian - my wife.  In general, obtaining something from a CWIS
ought not be much different from checking something out of a library.

But there are libraries and there are libraries.  It depends on whether
you belong to the same "jurisdiction" -- for lack of a better word here --
as the source of funding for the library.  If you go to a university
library, you need to be a member of that university community in order
to have the privilege of checking out materials from that library.
Similarly, a resident of the city to check out the materials from the
public library.

Yes, I know . . . we are talking about copyright, not access or
circulation.  But this leads to the difficult point which we were
not able to resolve for now:  If you access materials from a CWIS,
is it similar to checking something out of the library  OR  is it
similar to going to the library to read something there, but not
actually checking it out?  In most "jurisdictions," there is little
concern about use of the materials by "outsiders" so long as the
person doesn't want the privilege of checking it out.

We are inclined to think that the copyright question comes into
play in much the same way.  Is the CWIS user just "reading at the
library" or is the user "checking out the material"  or is the
user making the equivalent of a "photocopy" of the material?
Our laws seem to address only the last point.

Think about it . . . what is the analagous use?  From there, you
may decide whether having computer access is the equivalent of
having a library card  OR  of using a copier in the library
OR  of walking in the library door to read something.
~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~ <usual disclaimer about opinions, etc.> ~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~
Terry Mathias, Office of University Relations       Phone: 618/453-7419
Southern Illinois University at Carbondale       BITNET: GE0515@SIUCVMB
Carbondale, Illinois  62901            INTERNET: GE0515@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU
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Via: uk.ac.southampton; Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:31:44 +0000
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cwis-l
Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:23:48 GMT
From:         "C.K.Work" <C.K.Work@SOUTHAMPTON.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Copyright and CWIS
Comments: To: CWIS-L@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu

>
> We are inclined to think that the copyright question comes into
> play in much the same way.  Is the CWIS user just "reading at the
> library" or is the user "checking out the material"  or is the
> user making the equivalent of a "photocopy" of the material?
> Our laws seem to address only the last point.

Maybe the important issue is exploitation, not just reproduction - after
all, we have a fair use concept for photocopying. Copyright is to protect
the interests of the copyright owner. These suffer under exploitation (e.g
reselling) but not necessarily by reproduction alone.
>
> Think about it . . . what is the analagous use?  From there, you
> may decide whether having computer access is the equivalent of
> having a library card  OR  of using a copier in the library
> OR  of walking in the library door to read something.

It may be all of these things - I think the user needs to be told which
circumstances apply to the service (or items within the service) he is
looking at. There might be some analogy with shareware libraries - the
stuff is freely available, but obtaining the shareware does not necessarily
transfer any RIGHTS to the user - it is still protected by copyright. So
with a CWIS text - you can have the text, but not necessarily any right to
exploit it. Of course if you don't want the user to even possess the text,
it shouldn't be on the CWIS. I think the key to this area is separating the
concepts of 'having' something and 'having the rights' to something.

Colin Work
Uni. of Southampton Computing Services
C.K.Work @ Southampton.AC.UK

> ~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~ <usual disclaimer about opinions, etc.> ~~~.~~~.~~~.~~~
> Terry Mathias, Office of University Relations       Phone: 618/453-7419
> Southern Illinois University at Carbondale       BITNET: GE0515@SIUCVMB
> Carbondale, Illinois  62901            INTERNET: GE0515@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU
>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cwis-l
Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 13:29:45 -0600
From:         "Terry D. Mathias" <GE0515@SIUCVMB.BITNET>
Subject:      More on CWIS and Copyright
Comments: To: cwis-l@wuvmd.bitnet

Colin Work raises the distinction between "having something" and
"having the rights to something," which seemingly is the legal issue
at hand.  But two further aspects of that . . .

Enforcement. It is difficult enough to manage enforcement of the "rights"
with the printed versions.  (That is not to say that we should not even
try, of course.)  Is it reasonable to think that there can be some sort
of enforcement of "rights" to the electronic versions.  Restricting access
to certain materials because they are copyrighted has the effect of
negating the purpose of making them available on the CWIS in the first
place.  Maybe there should be two kinds of disclaimers, one for users
and one for information providers, just for the sake of the CWIS
manager-in-the-middle.  Enforcement will be extremely difficult.

Transmission.  Are we facing something of a double standard if we
make certain policies regarding electronic transmission of such materials?
Is the material under a different sort of copyright when it becomes
electronic?  If so, does the nature of the copyright then revert to
the original form if the user then prints it rather than just using
it on the screen?

To me, the fundamental issue remains this:  does the originator of the
material (or otherwise the current holder of the copyright) lose anything
different if the material is transmitted in electronic form compared to
being transmitted in printed form?  If not, then the form of transmission
(sale of the material, access to CWIS, photocopying the material, etc.) may
be irrelevant -- the holder of the copyright retains those rights, no
matter what.

And if we accept this notion, then the policies regarding copyrighted
materials on CWISes should be the same as the policies regarding such
printed materials.

Then we are left discussing the pragmatics of enforcement and access,
and probably not -- I would suggest -- the legal issue of rights.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cwis-l
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:58:26 -0700
From:         "Donna Pattee,
              CU Computing and Network Services" <PATTEE_D@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Printers on CWIS kiosks
Comments: To: CWIS-L@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu

At the University of Colorado, Boulder, we are investigating printers for
our CUline kiosks.  Does anyone else have printers for their CWIS kiosks?
If so, what kind are you using?  Comments and suggestions are welcome.

Donna Pattee
pattee@ucsu.colorado.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cwis-l
Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:24:00 CST
From:         RBANKS@UWSTOUT.BITNET
Subject:      A new list...

Project EASI, Equal Access to Software and Information,  has just
started a new electronic discussion list on disability access to
libraries.  Dick Banks from U. Wisconsin at Stout will be its
moderator.  Anyone wanting to join the list or get further
information about it should contact Dick rbanks@uwstout.edu.

      EASI is starting the list to:

1.  provide a forum to share questions and answers about how to
make

2.  provide a platform from which to reach libraries which are not
yet considering seriously the question of access for users with
disabilities.

3.  provide a platform from which to lobby vendors of electronic
library services to create tools that are already highly
accessible.

4.  encourage electronic networks and network information services
to make their facilities as accessible as possible to users with
disabilities.

5.  create and provide EASI services to assist campus libraries and
information providers with resources to assist them in becoming
more disability accessible.

     The print handicapped have the possibility of making ready use
of libraries for the first time.  Mobility impaired persons have
the possibility of making use of libraries without travel.  It is
important that these new electronic services be built from the
ground up with access awareness rather than having to become
modified later.  Please join us in this important task.

Norman Coombs
Chair, Project EASI
Professor of HIstory
Rochester Institute of Technology.
nrcgsh@ritvax.isc.rit.edu

Dick BAnks
easilibxs moderator
Adaptive Technologist
Library Learning Center
University of Wisconsin-Stout
rbanks@uwstout.edu


For information about Project EASI:
easi@educom.bitnet or easi@educom.edu

A project of EDUCOM's Educational Uses of Information Technology
Program  (EUIT), EASI provides information and guidance on campus
applications of  adaptive computer technology for access to
information resources,  instruction, research and employment.
EASI's membership includes professionals from throughout the United
States, Canada and other countries.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cwis-l
From: doug@cc.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell)
Subject: Re: WALLONGONG QUERY
Organization: Bush in 92 ? NOT!
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 05:06:43 GMT

vtx_operator@BSUVAX1.BITNET wrote:
:  00rphensley@leo.bsuvc.BSU.EDU writes:
..
: >
: >If anyone has had actual experience with WALLONGONG software, I would like to
: >know what your experiences have been.
: >

: I have used Pathway Access, which is what I think you are describing.
: Wallongong needs to work some serious bugs out of the version I had, particular

This is true of much of Wollongong's software, as I understand.  I can attest
to the flaws in their TCP for Unix for NCR Towers, and older versions of
Amdahl's UTS that used WIN-TCP had similar problems. 

I've heard the same complaints from some people about their VMS TCP offering.
You may wish to take this into consideration.
--
Doug Sewell, Tech Support, Computer Center, Youngstown State University
doug@cc.ysu.edu	   doug@ysub.bitnet	<internet>!cc.ysu.edu!doug

cat core | uuencode bunny.dropping | mail jp@tygra.michigan.com
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Via: uk.ac.sheffield; Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:31:31 +0000
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R3).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cwis-l
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:26:43 BST
From:         M.England@SHEFFIELD.AC.UK
Subject:      World Wide Web ???
Comments: To: CWIS-L@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu

Hi,
Can some one tell me about WWW or point me in the rigth direction for
information?
For a start is it a CWIS?
If so what are the differences between Gopher, WAIS and WWW?

Your Mike.
***************
ec2mpe@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cwis-l
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 10:20:00 EST
From:         "David J. Henry" <DAVE@UMDD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CWIS, INTERNET and anonymous users!
              15 Jan 1993 14:39:23 EST from <trudel@ERE.UMONTREAL.CA>

On Fri, 15 Jan 1993 14:39:23 EST Trudel Guy said:
>
>  Has anyone yet established a policy concerning these matters?  In
>  other words, do you let anybody having access to your system through
>  the public telephone network, connect to the gateways to the Internet,
>  or do they have first to log in to a computer on which they have an
>  account before they can connect to a gateway to the Internet.
>
What we have done here at the University of Maryland is to restrict telnet
access for users with anonymous access via dial-up.  We know when the user is
coming from our dial-in pool and in that case we don't allow people to telnet
to anywhere outside our local domain.  Otherwise, there is no restriction.
All that a user needs to do is access a system within our domain (this requires
a non-anonymous login somewhere) first and then they can use our CWIS with no
restrictions.  Since all faculty, staff, and students can get a userid, we
don't see this as a terrible problem.
s
This does disable some services for some users, but we felt this was necessary
to prevent hackers from attacking systems all over the Internet.  In fact, one
of the reasons for implementing these restrictions was that our CWIS was being
used to break into other systems on the Internet.  It IS unfortunate that a
few hackers have forced us to take this action, but I feel confident that it
is the right thing to do.

>  Is there a risk of conflict with Internet policies?
>
I don't know what the official Internet policies are regarding anonymous access
to the Internet is, but it makes sense to me that it is appropriate to restrict
such access when it is reasonable and possible to do so.
>
>--
> Guy TRUDEL    < trudel@ere.umontreal.ca>         tel= (514)343-6111 ext 5256
> Chef de service                                  fax= (514)343-2155
> Service d'aide aux usagers (SAU)            bureau= Pavillon principal
> Services informatiques                         piece T-220
> Universite de Montreal    C.P.6128, suc. "A", Montreal, H3C 3J7

David Henry
University of Maryland
Computer Science Center
College Park
David_Henry@umail.umd.edu
dave@umdd.umd.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:12:46 -0600
From:         LHAMPLYONS@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re: Participation Definition: a handout.

Rhoda
How about "adapted from a course handout by Rhoda Carroll in collaboaration
qwith the author"?
Liz
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:50:25 -0500
From:         Linda Lincoln <LL@UMNACVX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: duplicate messages

Evelyn:
I don't know whether anyone else on my campus receives MBU, but
I have not had problems receiving duplicate messages up to this
point. Linda Lincoln
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 18 Jan 1993 16:38:00 CDT
From:         Amanda Corcoran <YKFAC@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Truth about Orwell?

Don,
You're teaching Shooting An ELephant too?  I am as well. What are
you going to do with it? I'm thinking of using the narrative as
an example of the conflict between individual and group, which
I'm aiming to make my theme for second semester/first year Engl
this year.

Jus' curious.
Amanda Inskip Corcoran--Texas TEch.
Ps. if you receive a private answer to your question about the
hishistorical autobiographical accuracy of the story, would you
lelet me know if Orwell really did shoot the elephant?  I know he
wspent some significant time in Burma (re *Burmese Days*) and was
tired of Brit. imperialism. . . but shooting an elephant.  I
don't know.
This editor . . $#%@$%
Amanda Inskip Corcoran--Texas Tech
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:49:13 EST
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         BAHUOT01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU
Subject:      Focus Group experience anyone??

Karen, I used focused groups (we called them focused dialogues) to research
the "hidden writing" curriculum across the disciplines.  There's an article
about this in last Spring's WPA.  I'd be more than happy to talk with you
about doing this kind of work.
Brian Huot
University of Louisville
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:25:38 -0700
From:         "Michael J. Day" <mday@SILVER.SDSMT.EDU>
Subject:      willingness to revise on computers

Amanda, didn't we go through this revision/clean text
question a year or two ago on MBU, or is it my imagination?
I just looked through some of my files at Berkeley to find
the messages, but I stupidly followed someone's advice and
stripped all the headers, so of course the subject lines
don't show up in the message list any more.  So I couldn't
find them, but this might be an issue worth reviving.  Let
me know if you come up with any cites on this; some of my
research/software development depends somewhat on students
being more, not less willing to revise on the computer.

Here's a thought.  Could we say that they are more willing
to revise on the screen, but less willing to "violate" the
"perfect" look of a text once it has been laser printed?

Michael Day
mday@silver.sdsmt.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 09:22:00 CDT
From:         Mary OSullivan <MFOSULLI@MACC.WISC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: email privacy

>From:    IN%"MBU-L%TTUVM1.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU"   "Megabyte University
 (Computers & Writing)"
>To:      Multiple recipients of list MBU-L <MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET>
>Subject: email privacy
>
>>
>I presented a paper at Computers and Writing last spring on the topic of
>email privacy in the academic world.  I am willing to send an electronic
>copy of that paper and the resources I used to prepare it to anyone who
>asks.  I used electronic resources extensively to do the research for this
>paper, so I have the online addresses of lots of resources on this topic.
>Patty Ericsson

I would very much like to receive a copy of your paper.  Thanks.

Mary O'Sullivan
mfosulli@macc.wisc.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:16:00 -0600
From:         dene grigar <ACA102@UTDALLAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Job opening: Position description

This is even stranger:

I am attending a language institute in Italy this coming summer and one
of the items I found    that I need for the Italian government in order
to issue me the proper visa is a copy of my high school diploma.  I don't
know about you guys, but a high school diploma was not something I valued
too long after I began undergraduate school.  When I asked the consulate
if transcripts from graduate school would suffice, she said no.  I need
a copy of the h.s. diploma as proof that I am capable of doing college
work.  Go figure..
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 09:02:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Info Request, Gator Boxes and Pathworks (1)

Entry: 1
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 07:42:58 EST
From: IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.COM" Robert Royar, (C&CD Moderator)
Message-id: <1993Jan24.074258.v7.071.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject: Info Request, Gator Boxes and Pathworks (1)
Reply-to: "Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software
Lines:

NYIT may soon be able to connect a Mac Lab to some VAXen. Our MIS
administrator (who's very excited about the idea) said he knew of two ways
we could go
  1. a GATOR box connected into a MAC lan and
  2. Pathworks for (each?) computer on an EtherNet system.
I have a few questions:
  1. Did Bob Boston have difficulty with a GATOR Box earlier?
  2. Has anyone any experience with G-Boxes connected to Vax 750 series,
     8650 series or 2000 series computers? Elaborate please.
  3. Is any lab using Parthworks to connect Vax and Mac? If so, what's your
     evaluation of the product?
  4. Those who use Eudora, what are the Vax/Mac configurations needed for it?
We will have a multipurpose lab with classes scheduled in it most of the
time. There may be some use of the machines for Sixel Graphics on the Vax
(which seems to rule out the GATOR box and LocalTalk approach?). I'm unsure
of the Vax front end configuration (they will of install a new front end
also). The current front end is looked into old technology (1200 baud direct
line!).

Please respond directly to me at
 robertroyar@delphi.com (preferred) or r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
if possible to avoid the net chatter. I'll try to keep all the responses
together and mail out a summary later.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "Computers are potentially the most addictive drug yet devised."
                                                             -R. U. Sirius

------------------------------
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:19:42 -0600
From:         LHAMPLYONS@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re: Job opening: Position description

I agree that letters of rec. shuld not be expected unless an applicant makes the
short list ("final cut" varies a bit from place to place; letters may be
reasonably needed before choosing 5 people to bring for interview, for e.g.,
for the places who still have that kind of money to spend).  These days there
are so many applicants for every job it's an imposition on referees to have to
send out so many letters, and a terrible expense to send dossiers to every
place.  Search committees can generally see very quickly the applicants they're
not interested in, without reading recomendations.
I am not in favor of the generic letter that typically gets put in dossiers,
and that over-used referees have to send out when approached directly more than
2/3 times a year for the same person.  I have always found odd the American
practice that people apply for 20-40 jobs, everything they are remotley
qualified for, without regard to whether they could envision living in the regio
   n/town, whether it's a good school, etc.  Seems more sensible to apply for fe
   wer
and ask referees to respond to the specifics of the position anouncement as
they talk about one's abilities.  But then, my experience being on search
committees showed me that even some CANDIDATES send form letters, the same text
to every job (where they often blether on about their nearly-finished dissn on
??medieval nuns' erotic verse?? as though one may infer from that why they want
to direct a comp program or teach undergrad linguistics).  A letter that speaks
to the ad and issues raised by it impresses me many many times more...

Liz
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:00:09 -0500
From:         STINE@LU.LINCOLN.EDU
Subject:      SURVEY QUESTION

For a paper I'm giving at CCCC San Diego, I'd appreciate any
thoughts on the following question:
What's the one thing you would miss most--that you could not,
with a little ingenuity, replicate by non-technological means,
--if you were suddenly forced to teach without access to CAI?
Unconnected note:  Writing this first message (I just enrolled
in MBU!) was very intimidating. I don't know the "rules" for
"good" e-mail writing.
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