From: hjanssen@cbnewse.cb.att.com (hank janssen)
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,soc.couples
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:25:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

From article <1992Apr9.173110.24380@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, by sms@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (steven.m.stein):
>>This is getting fun.
>>I guess you also don't hold Hitler responsible for  the  second  world
>>war. Just imagine him saying, I am not responsible for anybody's elses
>>actions. Only my own.
> 
> Again, your analogy does not make any sense.  Hitler was and is 
> directly responsible for the slaughter of millions of people.  He
> was the one "incharge" and the one originating the orders.  He was
> the ruler.

On the contrary, the anology makes perfect sense. When Hitler  started
out.  He did not force anybody to join him, All done by there own free
choice.  (In  later  stage he did force people to join him via others.
But is not the point)
The point is that would he not have  done  the  actions  he  did,  the
people that went out and killed for him, would never  have  done  this
without him. They would have been normal workers and raised families. 

> You apparently do not agree, but I do not feel or believe for a 
> millisecond that I am "incharge" of women and I do not "order" women
> to date me or to leave who ever they might be seeing.

Let me give another example, which  is  close.  I  hire  you  to  kill
somebody  for  me.  You go out and do it, You get caught. I say, i did
not kill anybody. I am not responsible for his actions. He did it.
The  point  is, without you he most likely would not have gone out and
killed anybody. 
Same  like,  without  you  those two people would most likely not have
broken  up  without you stating your intrest. (They might, but that is
there problem. Not something for you to start)

> I do not create the unhappy or unfulfilling relationship they might
> be  involved  in.   I  simply  might  approach a women (not knowing
> whether
> she is or is not involved in a relationship) and simply express an
> interest in getting to know her better.  If she agrees, that's her
> choice.  

You can always ask, *before* you start dating/seeing her.

> 
>>B.llSh.t, without him there would not have been a second world war. 
> 
> We finally agree on something.
> 
>>Also  without you, the people would not have had a reason to brake up.
>>So it damn well makes you (at least, partially) responsible.
> 
> Wrong, with or without me, whatever reasons existed for the relationship
> being shakey, they would still exist.  If s/he was unhappy (whatever
> the case may be), they would continue to be unhappy unless both parties
>   decided  to  improve  whatever  it  is  that  went  wrong  in  the
relationship.

When you brake up, it does not always is because you are unhappy.....

> 
> This is where we disagree.  I DO NOT fear that women (whether she be
> my girlfriend or wife) would be soooooooooo easily taken from me by
> some guy (such as yourself) just because he walks up to her and says
> "Ug...woman.....I want you....you now mine".  Personally, any woman
> I would date would look at the guy who uttered these sounds, look at
> him with extreme pity, and rush home to my waiting arms..

Are you sure.  :-)   (Invincable lover huhg)

> But seriously, if my relationship sucked (and if it did, it would be
> partially my fault) and she were tempted by the kindness and
> compassion of another,
> NO, I wouldn't be happy....but I should have thought about her needs
> before ****** I ****** (and I can't emphasise the word "I" enough)
> drove her away.  It's not that the guy took or stole her from me, it's
> that "I" drove her away.  Understand????
> 

What  makes  you  so  certain  that  your  actions  with  your current
girlfriend/wife are such that she would never want to leave you.?
Or be wooed away by somebody else.??

>>Sad, very sad.
> 
> So true, but I still have hope for you.
>>

I just swallow and sit back....... :-)

On another note, we keep on saying that it is men wooing  women  away.
Is this our ego speaking. I would think it is  the  other  way  around
just as much.  Am i wrong.??


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------+------------------
The full moon shines bright. I gaze long at its beauty,	   |    Hank Janssen
I am overwhelmed. "Isn't it lovely," you say -		   | 	    (CPU)
         I'd forgotten you were there.			   |att!ihlpb!hjanssen
Newsgroups: alt.romance