HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: draitt@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David Raitt)
Subject: Re: Mac 512 Upgrades
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:34:30 GMT

In <parkyn.726595541@sfu.ca> parkyn@fraser.sfu.ca (Dale Parkyn) writes:

>rgc3679@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert G. Carpenter) writes:

>>I've a friend that wants to keep her 512 and is able to 
>>put about $300 into making it perform better.

>First: Are you able to use double-sided (800KB) disks with
>       this computer?
>       If you can format disks two-sided try the following...

>       Obtain the 'NewLife 1' CPU upgrade from NewLife
>       1-800-663-6395 Ontario, Canada. 

>       This will give you Mac Plus equivalent if not a bit faster.
>       There is also space for up to 8 SIMMS to a total of 4MB.
>       The SCSI connector allows use of HARD DRIVE.

>Second:Get 8 256KB SIMMS. Since they should be FREE (no use to 
>       anyone anymore) get a dozen. You will have extras in case
>       one is bad and you can swap/test combinations until they all
>       work. (Static charges might kill a SIMM)

[assorted deletia]

>Note: There are no guarantees that you upgraded 512K is going to last 
>very long. I have seen the 512Ke with NewLife still going after two years
>though...

>Dale
>parkyn@sfu.ca

I have been using a Newlife one in a 512KE for 3 years now with very 
few problems.  The main thing that I would advise if you follow this
route it to also buy a fan to keep the interior of the Mac cool.  
Otherwise you will probably find yourself replacing the power supply
in less than two months.  (This comes from bitter experience :-(

David
draitt@nwu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.misc
From: denk@Mathematik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Georg Denk)
Subject: Sticky hard disk, Mac won't boot
Originator: denk@sunbulirsch6.mathematik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 08:00:38 GMT


Dear net,

I have an annoying problem with a Mac IIcx (4MB, system 6.0.7):
From time to time the Mac does not boot, as it does not find the
internal hard disk (80 MB, original Apple = Connor HD), the screen
shows a disk with a question mark on it. Inserting a system disk
helps the Mac to boot, but there is no hard disk mounted.
Shuting down the Mac and rebooting solves (sometimes 8-( ) the problem.

In my opinion, the hard disk won't start spinning up, which could
cause the problem. But: How to solve this?

Any hints are very welcome!

Thanks in advance

Georg

--

===============================================================================
| Georg Denk                       |                                          |
| Mathematisches Institut          | e-mail:                                  |
| Technische Universitaet Muenchen | denk@mathematik.tu-muenchen.de           |
| P.O.B.  20 24 20                 | georg.denk@mathematik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de |
| D-W-8000 Muenchen 2              |                                          |
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Strange Needs
From: stump1+@pitt.edu (Robert E Mitchell)
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:23:48 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: stump1@unixd2.cis.pitt.edu


	Well, I have a strange need.  It would seem as if one of the people
I work with has decided that it would be best if they could get a device
(hardware, software, or both) that will turn on their file server (IIci)
at a specific time (AM) and off at another (PM).  I told them that they
would be better of just leaving it on (in my opinion they would be ...
I leave my servers in the office on all the time, as does everyone else I
know) but this particular administrator sees things differently.  So
how about it?  Any one know of a software/hardware contraption that will
do this efficiently?  I need reccomendations and rought estimates on
price.

	Please mail me with the info.  stump1@oss7q.cis.pitt.edu is
preferred.  I just set up a decent mail program on this A/UX server
and have yet to forward the rest of my mail there.  


Thanks a lot, all.  I really appreciate it.


Later...


				Stump.

Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.hardware:25419 comp.sys.mac.wanted:12382 pnw.forsale:2518
From: howie@intermec.com (Howard Kaplan x1696)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.wanted,pnw.forsale
Subject: 80M or 100MHD For Sale
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:10:58 GMT
Reply-To: howie@intermec.com ()
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intermec Corporation, Everett, Wa.

I need to sell ONE of the following:

I have a one month old internal Quantum 80 Meg (formatted) low profile, low
power ELS drive for sale.  It is now in my new Mac IIvx.  I really need a
bigger drive, but Apple did not offer the IIvx with larger drive when bundled
with the internal CDROM drive for some strange reason.  I plan to buy an
internal 230 Meg drive.  It yours for $210.

If you prefer, I have a one year old (one year remaining on warranty)
external with 100Meg (formatted) Quantum low profile. I currently use this
with my SE. If I sell this drive I'll move the 80 meg internal from the vx to
the SE instead.  It yours for $280.

Howard Kaplan
206-356-1696 days
206-778-0311 evenings
From: rfisel@informix.com (Rick Fisel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: do I need to reinitialize?
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:45:45 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

kvj@triple-i.com (Karl vonJena) writes:

>In article K58@eis.calstate.edu, pdang@eis.calstate.edu (Phillip Dang) writes:
>>I have a IIfx, 80MB SCSI, sitting horizontal. Do I have to reinitialize or
>>format the hard disk if I change the IIfx to a standing, vertical, position?
>>
>>Thnaks in advance,
>>Phil  pdang@eis.calstate.edu


>Most new drives don't really care which way they're mounted, but since you have an fx... I might be tempted to re-format. But a simple re-initialize won't do the trick. I think you'll need to use a third party program called StorWare to do the low-level format. You can reach them at 800 422-2115.

>BTW, can someone explain the technical reasons why the drive should be re-formatted? Or is this all just a bunch of hooey?

>karl

I didn't have to reformat or anything with my IIfx. No problems at all. Of 
course, this might depend on the maker of your drive, but I doubt it. The Mac II
series was designed to be set up in either orientation.

Rick Fisel
Unofficial Opinion (TM)
From: day@thrain.vancouver.wsu.edu (Steve Day)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: ImageWriter II LocalTalk Option
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:39:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: clark.1993Jan6.183919.8874
Organization: Washington State University at Vancouver

In article <1993Jan4.220234.4359@lmt.mn.org> ChazL@county.lmt.mn.org (Chaz Larson) writes:
>In article <Dec.30.15.05.21.1992.26281@remus.rutgers.edu>, 
>ficara@remus.rutgers.edu (ken ficara) writes:
>> Two questions: (1) is there an easy way to tell if the option has
>> been installed or not? 
>
>Given that I can't recall what the option looks like or where it's installed, 
>here's what I would do:
>
>1. attach the printer using a standard Imagewriter cable to the printer
>   port on a Mac.

The card fits into the printer above and to the right of the dip switches.
It is under a plastic shelf at the base of the ribbon cartridge.  Find the
dip switches and feel in the hold to the right, if there is a card there
it is the LocalTalk card.

>
>3. open the Chooser and see where the printer shows up. [installing the
>   option disables direct-connect mode]
>

NO.  Installing the card does NOT disable the direct-connect mode.  The mode
is selected by the dip switches.  (I don't remember which)


>I think the board goes under the ribbon carriage in the front of the printer, 
>but I haven't installed one for about 6 years.
>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: oueichek@gram2 (Ibaa Oueichek)
Subject: Re: Mobius Speedster '040
Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 13:27:37 GMT

Jose Hulse (hulsej@lclark.edu) wrote:
: What's all this jazz about an '040 accelerator being offered with/without
: FPU?  I thought that the '040 processor had the FPU built in... am I on
: drugs or what?
  Motorola has a "castered" version of the 040 chip. I think it's the 680LC40
or something like that. It doesn't provide FPU functions (maybe there's no
FPU core inside, or the internal FPU is disabled, really don't know, and 
it doesn't matter). I personally think it's a very wise policy given that my
main Mac activity (word processing, small software development) doesn't need
any FPU calculation.

--
Sham(u) ya tha (s)seif(u) lam yaghib(i) | Ibaa Oueichek. oueichek@imag.imag.fr
    Ya jamal(al) majd(i) fi(l) kutub(i) | IMAG, INPG.
Kablak(i) (t)tareekh(u) fi thulmaten    | Grenoble. 
    Baadak(i) staula ala (sh)shuhub(i)  |
					

Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.hardware:25234 comp.sys.mac.system:15757
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.system
Distribution: world
From: parkj@bones.et.byu.edu (John R. Park)
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:40:59 CDT
Subject: Re: HELP! Installing Daystar PowerCache card on MacIIcx!!

In article <1992Dec31.181224.12387@serval.net.wsu.edu> dshin@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu
(dongil shin) writes:

>      I have a Mac IIcx and am thinking about buying a powercache from
daystar.
>I was calling mail order companies to get a daystar power cache 50Mhz with
math
>chip. One of the salesperson told me that I need to SEND my computer to the
>daystar with the powercache card for installation. Is this true?
>It is quite hard to believe this.  I know that I need an adapter card for
>Mac IIcx. I called the daytar several times, but

For the IIcx this is true since many IIcx's do not have a socketed
CPU but rather soldered.  If your CPU is socketed you can do it
yourself but otherwise not.  Only the IIci doesn't require an adapter
for the PowerCache to work because it just drops in the cache slot which
the IIcx doesn't have.

-- 
John R Park             |  My opinions do not necessarily reflect
parkj@bones.et.byu.edu  |  those of Brigham Young University.


------ Internet Message Header Follows ------
Lines: 18
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 17:53:35 MST
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: HELP! Installing Daystar PowerCache card on MacIIcx!!
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
From: parkj@bones.et.byu.edu (John R. Park)


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: echoi@athena.mit.edu (Eric H Choi)
Subject: Powerbook DRAM or PRAM?
Keywords: powerbook memory
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 07:08:53 GMT


I suspect that my dealer installed a 6mb DRAM instead of pseudostatic
ram in my PowerBook 145.  Is there any way I can tell without opening 
the computer up?

-echoi@athena.mit.edu
From: pug@apple.com (Russ Emmons)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: Duo/SCSI details
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:47:53 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Dec26.213317.169474@bmug.org> , David_Schwartz@bmug.org writes:
>My question is with the Mini Dock; will the magical ROMs allow me to use my
>Duo with the lid closed, when connected to my (someday) Mini Dock?

The answer to your question is no.  Closing the lid sends a sleep demand, and
currently no support is provided to override that feature to allow for the
situation
you describe.  I think you can probably expect to see this rectified
eventually.

Russ
pug@apple.com
Portable ROM Dude
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: bredell@tdb.uu.se (Mats Bredell)
Subject: Re: Disabling Startup Page
Reply-To: Mats.Bredell@udac.uu.se
Organization: Uppsala University Computing Center (UDAC)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:28:27 GMT

Stuart Baker (stubaker@casbah.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
: I know its probably been asked before, but I am new to the mac world.
: 
: I have a Laserwriter NT.  Is there a way to disable the printing of the
: startup page every time the printer is turned on?

Use the LaserWriter Font Utility (not sure about the exact name in english)
from one of your system disks.

/Mats
-- 
Mats Bredell                                   Mats.Bredell@udac.uu.se
Uppsala University Computing Center (UDAC)     Ph:  +46 18 187817
Department of medical systems                  Fax: +46 18 187825
Sweden                                         Think straight - be gay!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: jolly@bmw.ece.cmu.edu (John Lee)
Subject: performance ratings for "accelerated" machines?
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Distribution: comp
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:15:11 GMT

The recent threads about Daystar's accelerators, and jazzing up an LC (which
I own) have piqued my curioisty.  Could someone provide references/data
on how much "acceleration" one can expect.

John.

--
   John Lee						Research Scientist
   email: jolly@bmw.ece.cmu.edu	        Performance Signal Integrity, Inc.
   voice: 412.682.7101			                 fax: 412.682.7178 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: umandru1@ccu.umanitoba.ca (John N. Andrusiak)
Subject: Re: Duo HD problems: HELP (Apple: say something!)
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 05:27:18 GMT


>>Apple buys drives from several vendors, and in order to have the formatted
>>capacity uniform, they partition the drives into the lowest common size
>>available on all the mechanisms they may use.

This is the core of Apple's problem. It's also important to note that
the drives bought from a manafacturer may not be the same size. It's
possible for the mapping out of bad sectors to change the the size of the
drive.


I believe the primary reason is the ease of manufacturing. All you have
to do is create a master image of a harddrive. Then you just blast the
master image on to the new drive. If you had to have some intelligence
to handle different size drives the hard drive copier would have to be
much more complex. Apple doesn't gain anything by maximizing the drive
size and they do save money by simplifying the manufacturing process.

Let me say that I believe that expanding into the unused space is completely
safe. From a theoretical point of view the manufacturer sells a 82.3
meg drive to apple, and they have to guarentee that works. Apple is the one
that chops it down to a 80 meg drive, but the excess space has already  
been tested. From a practical experience I've been running a SE/30 40MB 
for five years, a PB 170 for a year and 2 Mac II's with drives repartitioned
to take advantage of the space. I have had no problems. 

John Andrusiak - umandru1@umanitoba.ca

* One the other hand, two of the four HD's I've used have experienced problems
with the bearings. I don't think there's a connection, but you never
know.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: mcnc!fns-nc1.fns.com!hph (Paul Holzworth)
Subject: Touch Screen for the Macintosh
Organization: Fujitsu Network Switching
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 17:15:47 GMT

Does anyone know of a touch screen that is available for the Mac.  I am
trying to write an application for naive users (mouse phobic) and would
like them to select from a list of choices by touching the screen.  I
would appreciate it if you would post the name, phone #, and address of 
any manufacturers along with any experiences that you may have had.

Thanks,
Paul Holzworth
fns-nc1!hph@mcnc.org
From: Dale_Adams@gateway.qm.apple.com (Dale Adams)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: YES THE IIVXcd WILL DRIVE THE 16" MONITOR?
Date: 12 Jan 93 13:34:23 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <1993Jan12.010015.8642@mtu.edu> wdburns@mtu.edu (BURNS) writes:
> I am confused, I was told by Apple System Engineers that the IIvx would
> definately NOT support (internally) the 16" monitor.

The Apple System Engineers are correct.  The IIvx onboard video will _not_ 
drive the Apple 16" display.  Period.  Everyone at Apple says this.  
Anyone who actually owns a IIvx says this.  The IIvx system designer says
this.

Unfortunately, MacUser got it wrong and published that the IIvx would 
drive the Apple 16" display.  (I have a feeling we're going to be 
squashing this one for a long time.  I wonder if journalists have any idea 
how much grief they can cause by publishing bad information.)

- Dale Adams
  Apple Computer, Inc.
From: dcheenne@unlinfo.unl.edu (Dominique J. Cheenne)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: DeskWriter rebate...
Date: 5 Jan 1993 17:41:35 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu
Keywords: deskwriter,HP


Am I the only one who did not realize that the current Hewlett Packard
"Fame and Fortune" rebate, heavily advertised in Mac publications, and
offering a $50.00 rebate to the purchasers of a DeskWriter for the Mac
does not apply to the 550C?? I called HP, got the forms, filled them out
and got them back 3 weeks laters with a note attached to them stating
"invalid product/model number".... A call to HP revealed that the only
products to qualify for the rebate are the Desk Writer C and the Desk Writer
(products # C2113A and 2279A). The 550C (C2124A) is not included in the
rebate offer.

Anyone out there with the same experience?

Dominique J. Cheenne
dcheenne@unlinfo.unl.edu
From: jfw@neuro.duke.edu (John F. Whitehead)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: Info on the New Macs coming Feb 10th
Date: 12 Jan 93 23:08:19 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <1993Jan12.125551.10123@ac.dal.ca> seanmcd@ac.dal.ca writes:
>Well, all I can say about these prices is WOW! About time! Apple's going
>to move a lot of machines at these prices.

We'd better *hope* they can move them, judging by the waiting periods
for the popular Duos and Powerbooks...  :-)

-- 
 ________________________________________________________________________
|   John      jfw@neuro.duke.edu          Duke University Medical Center |
| Whitehead   jfw@well.sf.ca.us           Department of Neurobiology     |
|________________________________________ Durham, North Carolina ________|
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: henry@angelo.amd.com (Henry Choy)
Subject: Can a PB100 4MB SIMM be used in a Duo?
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Santa Clara, CA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 02:36:11 GMT

I remember vaguely that because the space available for PB100 SIMM slot
is so small, it cannot use PB140 and higher model SIMMs if they are 4MB
or bigger in physical size (2MB SIMM physical dimension is small enough
that the 100 and 140 can use the same SIMM).  

Now can I use a 4MB SIMM from a PB100 on a 140?  Is there any hardware
difference between the 100 and 140 SIMM slot?

How about the Duo?  Is there any hardware difference between the 100 and
the Duo SIMM slot?

Thanks in advance.

Henry
--
Henry Choy

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Santa Clara, California.
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.hardware:25235 comp.sys.mac.system:15760
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.system
Distribution: world
From: smargari@nmsu.edu (Susan Margarit)
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:44:16 CDT
Subject: Re: HELP! Installing Daystar PowerCache card on MacIIcx!!

Re: sending cx to daystar for upgrade...

If you have a cx with a soldered cpu, then you have to send in your
motherboard (about 1/2 hour's work). They promise to have it out same
day as received. Then you have to install the adapter and accelerator
yourself. Some cx's have socketed cpus (under your powersupply). Those
do not need to be sent back.

Jim


------ Internet Message Header Follows ------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.system
From: smargari@nmsu.edu (Susan Margarit)
Subject: Re: HELP! Installing Daystar PowerCache card on MacIIcx!!
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 02:03:21 GMT
From: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: Magnetized Monitor = Junk ?
Date: 9 Jan 93 00:42:01 GMT
Reply-To: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <C0EpwD.4oF@finnbogi.ocs.com> obi@finnbogi.ocs.com writes:
>...but what about
>greyscale monitors whose images aren't square? 
>... there was some "warpage" at the top and bottom left edges of the
>screen. 
>... the straight line is kinda wavy.
>
(diagram showing geometry problem)

>Is this also a gaussing problem? 

More likely an adjustment. Yoke and correcting magnets inside the monitor are
usually adjustable to handle just this kind of problem, but some of the 
adjustments interact with each other and benefit from an artistic and 
experienced touch. Some of the adjustment may also be electrical.

Suggest a monitor repair shop, but I wouldn't think it'd be expensive. I doubt
that anything has failed.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: povlphp@uts.uni-c.dk (Povl H. Pedersen)
Subject: Re: accelerator + ethernet for LCII
Organization: UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education
Distribution: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 00:32:05 GMT
Keywords: accelerator, ethernet, LCII

In <1993Jan9.004022.21503@selway.umt.edu> cs000rjp@selway.umt.edu (Russell J. Pagenkopf) writes:

>Does anyone make a combination accelerator/ethernet card for the LCII? If
>so, who and a phone number please. If not, suggestions and/or comments are
>welcome. Email reply is better, summarization if requested.

There is always the possibility of adding a SCSI based ethernet box.
This leaves the internal slot free. I am not sure if the PSU of the
LC series can do both accelerator and ethernet at the same time.
-- 
Povl H. Pedersen   -   Macintosh specialist. Knows some DOS and UNIX too.
pope@imv.aau.dk    -   povlphp@uts.uni-c.dk
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:10:31 EST
From: <OPQ@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: IIe card joystick problem mac lcii

Help! I recently purchased a Mac LCII with  a IIE card and attached an
Applied Engineering 5 1/4  in drive to the Y connector and a Kraft 2 button
joystick to the connector as well. (I also tried a Kraft KC3 three button
joystick as well.) I tried the joystick out with 10 games from as simple as
Choplifter to Dragon wars and Lords of Conquest. The result was that the
cursor would start at the center of the screen and drift to the right where
I could only get the cursor to function vertically and not horizontally. The
game buttons did not function either. The games worked fine using the keyboard
 where that was a choice. I removed the clock and mouse from the slots in the
conttrol panel as well as set the monitor to monochrome and the speed to normal
. My authorized apple dealer doesn't know what is wrong and Apple information
doesn't know either. Does one need a genuine apple joystick to work. Could it b
e the connector or I hope not the card?

                                       Thanks!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: npearl@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nathan Y Pearlstein)
Subject: Mac IIsi sound problems
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:06:02 GMT

I seem to remember seeing something on this newsgroup a while back about the 
IIsi having sound problems.  Yesterday a friend of mines sound didn't seem to 
work.  I think its hardware because it didn't play the startup cord on startup.
Anybody know anything about this?
-- 
Dark Nater, Lord of Little Furry Things;   e-mail:  RTFH
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.hardware:25323 comp.sys.sun.hardware:6648
From: cse0603@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: SUN to MAC Scuzzy interchange?
Date: 5 Jan 93 15:44:58 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

Hello

I know it was discussed previously, but what is involved in interchanging
Scuzzy devices btween SUNS and MACS, in general?

More speciffically, what would I need to do to get my MACS Quantum 105 HD
to work on th SUN Sparc2?  How about getting the SUNS CD ROM to operate
on my MAC LC?

Thanks.

-Steve
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware