From: skip@cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:34:17 GMT
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science

In article <1992Jul22.054538.8070@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>: Too bad Commodore does not adequately support all three systems.  
>
>Total opinion here.  I think C='s gold service is pretty great.  I
>think their phone service needs a little work, but it's better than a
>lot of clone places.  I think its dealerships need a LOT of work, but
>every once in a while comes a gem like Safe Harbor (it's local here).

Do the rednecks in Memphis who answer the phone bother you?  I prefer their
drawl to the usual yankees talking through their noses, but I can see where
some people might have trouble with it.  :-)

BTW, I was not referring to support such as Gold Service.  By support I mean
little things like R&D, advertising, etc.

>: Agreed, Commodore cannot even support the three existing lines.  It is
>
>They've been doing it for a long time, and they're making a
>profit--that says that they can, and have, done it.

Well hooray for Commodore!  If they are making a profit then surely there
is absolutely nothing wrong with them.  Excuse me.

>: incredible that the pitiful sum that Commodore spends on R&D has to be
>: divided among three lines.  Of course, I'd hope that little money was
>
>It's not really much of a division, is it?

True, the R&D division at Commodore isn't much at all.

>: wasted on the C64 line, but then again we do hear rumors about the C65,
>: the C256, etc. and there is that stupid "console" that was sold in the UK.
>
>Some people really don't think it was stupid.

I was in the UK last summer and saw those things for sale at fire-sale prices
because Commodore was going to drop them.  Had they introduced it a few years
earlier when Nintendo was starting out, they might have had something.  Of
course they would have to market the thing and everyone knows how well they
do that.

>: It would also be pretty stupid for Commodore to spend lots of money on
>: R&D for the PC line, but I wouldn't put it past them.  If anyone with a
>: screwdriver can put together a PC clone, I'd hope that Commodore could do
>: the same without too much trouble.  What are the PCs like?  Are they
>
>They're some of the best PC's made, and I've heard that from people
>all over Germany.  PC's by C= are considered by a lot of people to be
>some of the best systems made.

That is great if you live in Germany.  If they are so wonderful, why don't 
they sell them in the U.S.?  It has been some time since I've seen a Colt,
PC10, PC20, or whatever they are calling them now.

>: compatible with other PCs or do you guys build them using funky parts like
>: the Amiga line?
>
>Hmm.  Not sure on this one.  I thought resistors, capacitors, and a
>CPU were all pretty common things on motherboards?
>
>"Funky parts like the Amiga line".  Oh boy.  The Amiga doesn't use
>"funky parts".

I've yet to see a PC or Mac that uses ZIPs.  I just added another 4M to 
my A3000 and it was definitely much more difficult than just popping in
a SIMM.  

What if I want a high-density floppy?  Of course everyone else in the
industry has had them for years now, but I have heard that there are a
few Amigas with the 1/2 speed hacks.  Too bad I can't just pop in a
common inexpensive HD floppy.

I'd also like to get something better than enhanced CGA resolution, but
there is nothing out there for less than a thousand bucks that will run
any of the software that I want to use.  Of course, Commodore is going
to be coming out with RTG any day now, so maybe I'll be able to find one.

>: Was that machine the last one to be developed at Commodore?  I know that
>: you guys have made minor improvements to the Amiga line that had the 
>: misfortune of coming under your control, but nothing really new has been
>: introduced.  
>
>Yeah, it would have been so much better if it had just gone under.

No, it would have been better if the persons in charge didn't have their
heads up their collective ass.

>: Whoops!  I forgot the ECS!  How ignorant of me to overlook such an innovative
>: chipset!  And the A2024 monitor with the Hedley Hack!  Whoa, how could I
>: forget the 1/2 speed high-density floppies, the BridgeBoards with their
>: high-res displays, and all of those 040 accelerators!
>: 
>: You guys sure are innovative.
>
>Ooh, for a person who knows not what he says, you're really clueless.

I'm sure that you, Mr. Cluefull, will be glad to set me straight.

>First, ECS.  That's a damned interesting design.  How many chipsets do
>you know of conform to BOTH NTSC and PAL, are programmable, output in
>NTSC and PAL output sizes, support 15.75 AND 31.5khz output
>frequencies, offer video-based things like overscan, support 1-2mb of
>memory that, unlike available PC cards, can be used both to store
>code in as WELL as graphic and audio data, can change modes and
>palettes during display time on the fly, offer 8 hardware sprites,
>handle complex bitblts (the REAL stuff), make full use of DMA, and can
>handle display frequenceies from 25hz and up?

Wow!  It can do all of that!  Too bad its color limitations are the same
as my A1000 built in 1985.  Of course, it can do such useful things like
display 160x960 interlaced 32 color and has that great 64 color palette
in the 31kHz modes.

>Second:  The A2024:  If you knew anything, you'd know "panneling"
>video wasn't invented by C=, and that it's foolish to think so.

So that makes it a good idea?  If it is such a great design, why is it
so difficult to find one of the damn things?  I was really interested
in buying one for the resolution, but none of the dealers could get 
them.  One had the Moniterm with the Hedley Hack board and it sucked
compared to an old Sun 3/50 that I was using at school.

>Third:  Half speed floppies, the HD hack:  Yes, a new Paula would have
>been lovely, but not entirely possible to do due to required signals &
>stuff.  You'd need a paula that ran at twice the speed it does, and
>that won't be backwards compatible, to say the least.  So it's better
>to give an OPTION, if not the best, rather than to allow to go
>without, isn't it?

They don't even offer it as an official option.  A few "lucky" A3000
owners have them, but Commodore has not guaranteed their ability to
function as a HD floppy.  As for backwards compatibility, I'd gladly
sacrifice it if only to see some improvement after seven years.  I've
heard that the fabled AA chipset includes the old Paula, but I sure
as hell hope that rumor is false.

>Fourth:  The bridgeboard.  Its output supports the Amiga's current
>chipset, which can't reproduce VGA.  If you don't like it, think like
>an IBM'er.  Go out, get the neatest SVGA card, and plug the damn thing
>in.  It's a bridgeboard, not a god.  It makes the best possible use of
>the Amiga's chipset to the best extent that it can, and when it can't
>any more, it doesn't.  Why offer a VGA mode if you can't LOOK at it?
>You'd need a new monitor anyways, one specifically for your VGA card.
>Why yank up the price of the bridgeboard when they can simply plug in
>a VGA card and go?

Use that wonderful programmable ECS to display a 640x480 16 color screen.
Wow!  That is exactly what stock VGA is!  The palette for VGA is larger
you say?  Well believe it or not it is easy to go from 18bits to 12bits.
Sure, you do lose a few hundred thousand colors, but for things like
DOS and Windows it wouldn't be much of a problem.  But what about the
320x200 256 color mode?  Well doesn't the mighty Amiga with its wonderful
programmable ECS support 320x200 in 4096 colors?  The Amiga is the almighty
video wonder, so surely it won't have problems with the simple little
stupid non-programmable VGA displays.

>Fifth:  The 040 card.  Most people believe that 040 cards have been
>well taken care of by third party, and that C= should work on the
>thing that only C= can do:  Produce new Amiga SYSTEMS.  And since ONLY
>C= can put out an 040 Amiga, but anyone can make an 040 card, it's
>better that they do the thing that they have the most reason to, isn't it?

I purchased my A3000 with the intention of buying an 040 board soon after.
Several people from Commodore were predicting that 040 boards for the 
A3000 would be easy to build and would sell in the $1000 range.  That
sounded great, but here it is over a year later and nothing is available.
Of course there is such a great selection of two and one of those is
from the company who claims that the A3000 has buggy chips and that the
Zorro III bus is not fast enough for their video board.

I am not so sure that C= can put out an 040 Amiga.  They were supposed to
be one of the first with an 040 system, yet NeXT and Apple have shipped
their second generation systems before Commodore can ship one.

>Hopefully by now you've learned something.

Thank you so much for your little apology for Commodore's problems.

>(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
>(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
>(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
>(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Skip Sauls                 
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy