HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mmarkish@FEDS46.PRIME.COM (Mark Markish x2799)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Gogol', holiness, talant, etc.
Date: 12 Sep 92 00:52:47 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

+ From: Igor Belchinskiy
+
+ >| > Talent is not equal to saintness.
+ >| > It's more from God -
+ >
+ >And while it is impossible to argue with Igor and you, it is mete to ask:
+ >Is saintness _less_ from God?
+
+ of course, there is no scale or measurement and everything is from God
+ (question is - which one :-)

Are you offering a quiz on the 1st Commandement, like that guy who
asked whether someone else knew where Argentina was? Who knows, though;
if they need to be double-checked about Argentina, it's probably worth
making sure about Adonai ehod.

+ ..., but saintness is more God directed, straight,
+ while talent being more casual and unexplainable, is more _from_ God.
+ Saintness is more predictable, but "chem sluchainey, tem verney".
+ though talent and saintness are just two different faces of God.

No way. You are playing hardball with us.
                         Chto i kak tvoril Sozdatel',
                         chto schital On bole kstati,
                         znat' ne mozhet predsedatel'
                         Komiteta o pechati,
let alone a software developer like myself.

This is a slippery path which might lead us right in the midst of the old
Church dispute on whether Grace is created or not. Speaking of the gravity
of this question, suffice it is to say that upon its resolution the
possibility of divorce is hinged :-) or :-(

When I was asking the original question - virtue vs. talent - I meant
rather consequences than genesis. For instance,
 - if I have a true talent of dealing dope and not being caught,
   is there any reason for not implementing it?
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Russian Culture through California sunshades
Date: 5 Sep 1992 17:42:22 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu
Keywords: all of the above

In article <1992Sep5.051603.15388@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>and underground one is *language*. The language on which Doctor
>Zhivago is written is exactly the same which used most of (now forgotten)
>popular writers of 1900-10 years. From this point of view, this
>is clearly mainstream, while, say, Kharitonov's novel is 
>underground. Rock is underground the same: if they don't use
>profane language (which is rare), they still use street language
>etc. From point of view of circulation, well, in 1820-ies Russia

Without any connection to previous discussion. Do you think that all
mainstream Russian literature should be fixed to the langauge as of
1900-1910? Was it street (well, I mean common-high-class) language of
that time (I do not know the answer)? Why todays authors should not
use today common language? You high-brow crowd may laugh at me but I
think that in modern Russian literature best example of _modern_ russian
is books of Strugatski & Strugatski. Well, at least one branch of modern
Russian. I wouldnot claim that country people speak same language.
(From my limited experience they do not speak language of Proskurin and Co
either. Generally, printed version of their speach is nesseserely
compact :) ).

Yury


Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: Russian poetry
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 14:11:51 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

	From survivor of birth, childhood, school years to
	Her Majestic Abused Survivory Ms. Schwarz.

1.
In article <1992Sep7.192029.7028@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes a mess of unconnected citations including her own
Honourable Survivory revelating words among Ratushinskaya and Pasternak:

	[mutloized citations skipped]

2.
Every Her Survivory Ms. Schwarz posting recalls new and new proverbs
and poetry lines.

"Smeshalis' v kuchu koni, ludi..."

"Korol' umer, da zdravstvuet korol'".

3.
To became really good follower of Mr. Mutlu, survivor of Armenian 
atrocities, Ms. Schwarz needs to acquire good and long signature,
as long and vague and messed and mostly meaningless as her postings (IMHO).

It's yet an open question if she can pretend to the title "Mutloid of the Year",
- competition is very strong - but she definitely indicated that Her S. hopes
for this titles has a strong basis.

I believe that following in this direction Ms Schwarz will finally 
find Her Survivory proper place in our kill files. Welcome.

4.
And, I hope, net wisdom would be able to explain to stupid me,
why people try to write about things they don't understand completely.

5.

Poetry for Her Survivory

Travka zaleneet,
Solnyshko blestit,
Ordam rotozeev
Missis Schwarz strochit.

Zdes' urvet citatku,
Tam - cluchainuh slov
Sypnet, skleit gladko -
Umnuy trud gotov.

6.
	Personal to H.S.Ms.Schwarz

Dear Her Survivory, please enjoy this poetry. I and other netters
with a greatest pleasure would furnish you more upon request,
only please do not touch Pasternak and Akhmatova, Zvetaeva and Mandelshtam.
Read Freud and Yung and Fromm - they are for you.
Good Surviving.

	-igor
vendiib%kgnaix11@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
From: polyakov@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Dimitri Polyakov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Who Is Afraid Of Patricia Schwarz?
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:17:49 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Hey,guys!(This is meant to be a generic label for girls too,so,don't
think I'm a sexist).I just have to acknowledge that Mr.Shimkevich is
completely right.No need for all this bickering.Ms. Schwarz is not
the new Hasan B).Mutlu.At least,the volumes of their writings are
not comparable- at this point,I can only praise Ms. Patricia.
Those of you who think otherwise,are free to create the KILL Patricia
file in their news directory,exactly as it was done in Mutlu's case-
so that now Mr.Mutlu cannot annoy anyone sober-minded and his
name causes nothing but humouristic reminiscences.
And,after all,how could you know,maybe Ms.Patricia is a secret
communist.And COME ON,she has the absolute right to be a communist.
I see no transgression in being a communist.
Remember,Bertolt Brecht was a communist
         Vladimir Sorokin is a communist.
         Gorbachev is a communist.
         Hillary Clinton is a communist.
         Patricia Schwarz is a communist.
         Sergei Viznyuk is a communist.
         I am a communist.
So,guys,stop damning each other and let's start meaningful discussion.

               Love,
                    -Dimitri Polyakov.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: zhelud@drfmc.ceng.cea.fr (Andrei Zheludev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:55:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep11.085506.15526
Organization: Conspiracy International
Originator: verbits1@husc9.harvard.edu

In article <13741.2aaf5f1c@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> vadim@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:

>   
>  A ya to dumal chto za russkie pishut ves etot stuff v s.c.s.,
>da my zhe prosto pyany. Eto mnogoe iz stuffa obyasnyaet.
>  (And I thought who are those russians writing all this stuff in s.c.s.,
>we are simply drunk. This explaines the most of the stuff)
>

Ne, Vadim, ti mne to mozga ebat ne nado.. Intiligent nasholsia. Vse mi
tut intiligenti, znaem. Vot vodaru to netupo gruzim, a vse ne spivaemsia.
Odno slovo, inteligenti. A vse potomu, chto kostochka u nas est inteli-
gentskaya, kotoraya pozvoliaet pit i ne spivatsia. Tak chto mumu
Vadik porot ne nado, a nado chestno i priamo. Ti menia uvazaesh?! SUKA!
VADIK! TEBIA SPRASHIVAYU! TI MENIA UVAZHAESH!? MOLCHISH?  RAZBORKI POSHLI?!
TI BLIAT MENIA KONECHNO UBIESH , NO ZUB DAJU NAH.. NA TOT SVET TEBIA 
S SOBOY VOZMU!. Mne poherzu, ja fraer ne mestnii, popishu i uedu, b...
8 hodok, 3 pobega, b.., ja sam sebia boius nah...! Tak skazhi,
rodnenkiy, ti menia uvazaesh?

Hopefully, you are smart enough to take this one without ofence.

AaaaaaaAAAaaaazzzzzZZZZzzzzZZZzzz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: Russian poetry
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 16:28:39 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <1992Sep10.124502.27067@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>> And, I hope, net wisdom would be able to explain to stupid me,
>> why people try to write about things they don't understand completely.
>

Sorry if I'm wrong, but I always thought that 
"do not understand completely" == "do not understand at all"
"do not understand completely" == "understand nothing"
Btw, other netters who replied understand me the way I wanted.

>Can you name one thing that anyone understands completely that isn't
>trivial.

look at mathematics. There some non-trivial things.

But it's good to see your progress on mutlu way - to find the weakest
point and ignore everything substantial. Why I wrote previous sentence -
just to show you that asre different from you are trying to show.

Hope, I didn't abuse anybody.

>I am a physicist, and I see that all of science is writing about things
>no one understands completely.

If you are the physicist, why should you write about Russian literature 
professionaly. Anyway, you should better understand people.

>Einstein didn't understand  the theories he discovered.
>And the brightest people in the field are still working on trying
>to understand it.
>
>And you are asserting that literaure can be more completely
>understood than science?

No, I didn't. Next trap, please :-)

>I have never heard any professional in the field of literature
>assert that any work of literature could be completely understood.
>
>-patricia
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The least Nationalistic Nation
Date: 12 Sep 92 22:48:28 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:42:35 GMT
>From: mashina <novost@HALCYON.COM>

>As for Russian soldiers saying only da-da and net-net.  I would
>think their vocabulary is larger, such as slushayus' and tak
>tochno.    (Just kidding)

Nikak net, their vocabulary is much smaller.
It doesn't include "da-da" "net-net" and "slushayus'".
They say instead:

Da ----------------->  Tak tochno
Net ---------------->  Nikak net
Slushayus' --------->  Est'

What comes to "da-da", "net-net", it's quite from another source.


"But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay:
 for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
                                   (Matth. 5:37)
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Re: On Bulgakov's anti-semitism (was RE: Re: Bulgakov"
Date: 10 Sep 1992 06:23:42 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <SCS-L%92091000352796@INDYCMS.BITNET> "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:

>  Correct me, if I am wrong, but I do not remember in "Master..." any indication
>of the nationalities of heroes.  Therefore, it will be very difficult for me

Jeshua was Jew. And that terrible Iuda. Apparently Afranii was Russian,
chekist and antisemit :). Naturally, Pilat was Emperial occupant. Then...
let me see, or yes Begemot was cat. Ek odnako hitro zaverchno. Afranii checkist,
a kto zhe togda predsedatel' "trojki" evrej Kaiafa? Obraz javno otricatel'nyj.
Mezhdu prochim, vy ne nahodite, chto Voland (predpolozhitel'no
nemec (ili francuz, opredelenno francus)) otnositsja k Leviu kotoryj...,
opjat' zhe ..., kak-to svysoka. Prenebrezhitel'no. Voobshe, ja schitaju, chto
zatronut ochen' interesnyj plast tvorchestva znamenitogo pisatelja i sootvetst-
vujuschim organ sleduet obratit' na eto vnimanie.

Yury

PS. Timur all this stuff above has nothing to do with you article, sorry.
From: sergei+@cs.cmu.edu (Sergei Nirenburg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Tyazhelo navisshie voprosy (WAS: Re: Tuk-tuk...)
Date: 11 Sep 92 03:23:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BuE9EM.1qz.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


In article <2521@cronos.metaphor.com> covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy) writes:

>>     Armyanskoe radio otvechaet:  Vas'ka, ne pizdi.
>
>Nichego tak anekdotik!
>
>Dejstvitel'no, trudno poverit', chto mnogie v etoj gruppe tak uzh
>shibko duhovny i s takoj vot bol'ju v serdtse vosprinimajut, kogda
>russkuju kulturu/literaturu marajut "eti chernye amerikanskie baby".
>
>Tak chto, tovarishchi-radejushchije-za-russkuju-literaturu, 
>chitajte otvet Armjanskogo radio!
>
>-- 
>  Ivan Covdy, covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com, METAPHOR Inc.,  CA,  USA

Why don't we turn to a truly earth-shattering and long-unanswered
question of modern times (it has a lot to do with Soviet literature,
culture, including underground, I am sure) to obscure all those other
ancillary questions:

Pochemu my moem ruki pochti kazhdyj den', a nogi -- pochti nikogda?

Or, as translated, probably, by Myra Ginzburg:

WHY IS IT THAT WE WASH OUR HANDS ALMOST EVERY DAY
AND OUR FEET ALMOST NEVER?

Lighten up, folks. We are getting bOOOring!

Sergei
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: Russian poetry
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 14:38:32 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <1992Sep9.094339.20310@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>>Bravo, Igor!
>
>>Spasi nas Bog ot damochek s diplomami i aspiraciami.
>
>>Alexandre "Sasha Propili Bashli" Kostomaroff
>
>Why do you hate me and want to hurt me?

Nobody hates you personally. And I'm sure nobody wants to hurt anybody.

You said somewhere before "I don't understand..." about Gogol.

Stick to it, try to understand at first. 

It's very simple - understand, than say. Understand than write. Not vice versa.

Right now you really don't understand. So try.

I hope some years later (maybe many years later) you would
understand. Then you would be ashamed of things you wrote
in connection with Russian culture. But you wouldn't write
your book the same way you post here - so you wouldn't be
ashamed of that book, at least.

What may help? Educate herself, what else.

Try to read "Dar" (The gift) by Nabokov.
Especially scene of poetry meeting.

Try to read Ahmatova papers on Pushkin. Solov'ev's.

What else?
Do not try to narrow all you read to your own bad childhood 
experience and cut everything else. Open your eyes.
Russia is really different from US - you should change your scales.
Maybe you should try to forget all that shit about homo, hetero, etc -
it only makes mess in your head.

There is a difference between kitchen chat at night in Moscow
and book on culture.

>-patricia

	-igor
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: mashina <novost@halcyon.com>
Subject: The least Nationalistic Nation
Originator: bbs@halcyon.com
Reply-To: novost@halcyon.com
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:42:35 GMT

Entropy Warrior made a good statement about "...those folks who
arrive and misunderstand?....the more it seems reasonable to infer
that the new-comers are very important.

The new-comers are important if Americans stop to take the time
and try to talk with them in any meaningful way.  If you do, then
you can begin to understand our culture better as well as theirs,
both the good and the bad as well as some truths and miconceptions
about each others cultures.  

As for Russian soldiers saying only da-da and net-net.  I would
think their vocabulary is larger, such as slushayus' and tak
tochno.    (Just kidding)

        Jeff
From: vadim@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Rain Relief Fund
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:23:49 EDT
Distribution: world

In article <18lklcINNifs@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, rahman@ces.cwru.edu (Rahman A. Soomro) writes:
> Dear friends,
> 
> Recent rains in Pakistan have caused devastating effects on the 
> daily life of the Pakistani people. Scores of people have lost there
> lives and more than a million have been homeless.
> 
> 	I appeal to you to help our brothers and sisters in need
> and donate some money to help them. Please send your contribution
> (tax deductible) with your name and also I request you to collect 
> donations from any source -- your colleagues at work, friends, business
> associates, customers, persons from any nationalities and backgrouds
> to help people in trouble. 
> 
> 	We are tying you help suffering peoples, who are suffering
> from disease and malnutrition.
> 
> Please mail your contributions to:
> 
> Pakistan Rain Relief Fund
> 4105 Providence drive
> St. Charles, MO 63304
> USA
 
   Grazhdane, sdavayte valyutu! => Apt B, 59 E.Norwich,
                                   Columbus OH 43201 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 11:53:03 GMT


>>American culture is misunderstood by newcomers from Russia as easily as
>>the Russian one by Americans. It takes equally long time to realize
>>that American culture has a lot more to offer than baseball and Oprah show.

>Doesn't any "culture" include those folks who arrive and
>"misunderstand?"  I mean they're there too, part of it all.
>And the more the locals deny it, the more it seems reasonable to
>infer that the new-comers are very important.

>-Mka

Shhh!!! It's secret!! :-)

A beautiful chaotic secret, until the separatists find out and try
to ruin it.

-patricia
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Organic Gardens
Date: 6 Sep 1992 20:36:38 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


This posting may end up being included in the "California
Sunshades" postings because of its naivete.
However, since I am active in research and studies which improve
the yield of food gardens for urban housing, I and others I
work with have suggested that perhaps with the great food
shortages and related problems in the Soviet areas, that a
great education (or re-education) could be offered so that
individuals could at least grow a significant portion of their
food needs and better quality at that.
Some of the newer areas include: small greenhouse with maximum
yields for colder climates, fish aquaculture on a small scale,
and improvement in efficient of certain food chain recycling
for the small farmer.
It is also certainly true that the average urban American is
still quite ignorant and un motivated to turn his yard into
some food production.
We hope to change this attitude, especially with the American
economy falling as it has been.
-- 
            Mike Romano     Univ. Calif. Berkeley
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Date: 5 Sep 1992 17:32:29 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep5.045732.15387@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>>Don't you know, that what they are doing in Baltics. :)
>
>>That's just some Russian history, never mind. First Russian rulers
>>were Varjags (Vikings), so Russian military was born by you Scandinavs,
>>and you have courage to complain :).
>Well, not only Finnish schools are bad :)
>They were Norvegians, not Danish...
>
Absolutelt agreed about schools, espesially 2 and 145 :). I hate to refer
to "The Golden Book Encyclopedia for Children", but that's the only source at hand.

It says Viking were anchestors of modern Norges, Swedes and Dannes. Aside of
this source, do you think Greenland were gift from Norway do Denmark? :)

Yury
From: RUBAN@hartford.bitnet ("Timur Y. Ruban")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: RE: A Flaming Idea
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:52:00 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

From:         "Patricia M. Schwarz" <patricia@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>

>Heheh ;) this will probably get me some hate mail for sure,
>but I've had this discussion with some other people who didn't think it
>was crazy, so here is my question:
>
>Was Gogol gay?

C'mon, Pat!  Are we discussing Russian/Ukrainian literature here, or possible
scenarious for the next "Geraldo" or "Opra Wimphrey" (or whatever is the spel-
ling)?

Probably your next suggestion will be that Russia is full of gays on the indi-
cator that leaders of the country like to kiss each other?

>-patricia, putting on flameproof jumpsuit and spraying homophobe-repellant
>on the terminal screen

Sincerely,
-timur, eating cheeseburger and spraying no bull... on the terminal screen.

P.S.  I like your style of logic in making discusion topic - in reminds me
of old Odessa's "boulevard journalism" before 1930's (not then I've been there
at those times, but I've got a chance to see some of them.)  Take a look at
Bulgakov's, Paustovski's and Ilf & Petrov's early works - they talk about
this 'issues'.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:7092 talk.politics.soviet:7696
From: sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Russian authors & books
Keywords: Solzhenitsin
Date: 12 Sep 92 01:03:37 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <NVmyqB1w165w@halcyon.com> novost@halcyon.com writes:
>
>  Does anyone know if A. Solzhenitsin's books have been published
>in Russia?  In particular, has <A Day in the Life of Ivan
>Denisovich> been published?  Also, does anyone know where one can
>get a copy of this book in Russian.

  Yes, it was published in ~1962 by "Soviet Writer" (Sovetskij
Pisatel"). Try interlibrary loan. I'll try to find references
through a library network.

>                   Jeff

 S.B.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet