From: becker@edwards-vax.af.mil
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Shatner proposes idea for Star Trek VII
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:19:19 -0800
Organization: IFAST - EDWARDS Air Force Base

From: yung@r-node.gts.org (Amos Yung) writes.....

>In article <1992Jul20.114139.28868@edwards-vax.af.mil> becker@edwards-vax.af.mil writes:
>>From: yung@r-node.gts.org (Amos Yung) writes....
>>
>>
>>
>>>In case you are interested, here is a list of a dozen stupid things about ST V:
>>1) Row, row, row your boat. Enough said.  
>>>
>>I did not think singing row row row your boat was stupid.  It was a group
>>of good friends sitting around a campfire on a good ol fashioned camping
>>trip.  One such friend had never done this thing called CAMPING so he was
>>introduced to some of the traditions and one of them was singing.  Row row
>>row your boat is a good song.  I imagine any song sung around a camp fire
>>would be stupid to you, yes? 

>Just because it is fun in real life, doesn't mean it is funny in a movie.
>Singing camp songs could be a lot of fun if you are among friends. Watching
>people singing silly camp songs in a movie which lead to nothing is, imo, 
>stupid.
 
wait a minute.  What is a movie?  Is not a movie supposed to make it so you 
(the camera) are a impartial thing observing a sequence in someones life
or what have you?  So, what happens is we start out by watching these
guys on leave having a good time.  Singing songs around a campfire trying
to show one of their friends what camping is.  Just having a good time.
Whats so stupid about that?  THey weren't supposed to remind us we were
watching a movie and that sooner or later something was going to have to happen
so the story could get going.  IT was supposed to be real life!  Then, 
because we are so technically sophisticated their leave gets interrupted
in the middle of nowhere and they have to go back to work.  Even happens
to us poor working slobs now.  Some of us can't get away for 
anything! bleh!!!!! :-(

>>
>>>2) Chekov and Sulu got lost. Where was the other stooges? 
>>
>>Don't know.  It is possible for folks to get lost.
>>

>Yes, it is. But does it make a good scene by itself? Especially when 
>accompanied by the century old pun (by Chekov): "It's a miracle!" Yawn. Many
>bad sit-com still use this line to get some cheap artificial laugh. I 
>happen to think Star Trek should be slightly above that.       

Well, I agree that Star Trek should be above cheap artificial laughs, but
I really do think, at least I took it this way, that Chekov was being a bit
sarcastic.

>>>3) Out of all the star ships available, they have to pick one that doesn't
>>>   have a transporter for a hostage rescue mission.
>>
>>I do believe they made it clear as to why they were the only ones left to
>>do this mission.  but I don't really remember.  Have to watch it again.
>>

>Yes, they did. It was because they need Kirk's experience or leadership or
>something just as senseless. Firstly, when you have a ship with a functional
>transporter oribiting around the planet, then just beam up the hostages and
>then beam the terrorists to the holding cell. There is no need for any kind
>of "experience". Secondly, if for some unfathomable reason they actually
>need Kirk's presence, why not put Kirk on another ship (not necessarily as
>Captain). Any *ANY* functional ship will do.

ok, I see what you are saying.  But didn't they say there were no ships
around at all?  The only one was Kirks?

>>>4) A 50 (or 60) something Uhura dancing nude in the moonlight. 
> >
>I> enjoyed the scene.  She has a great voice, unless it was not her voice.
>>whoever it was that sang the song had a nice voice.  Uhura didn't look
>>to be 50 or 60 in that scene.  Looked pretty good as a matter of fact.
>>Why wasn't a beautiful little ensign used?  I don't know, maybe because of
>>lack of experience.
>

>Can't argue with you here. I am funny this way, the thought of a 50 or 60
>old woman dancing in the nude is a major turn off for me. Not that 
>the rationale  of having a woman dancing in the nude will immediately attract
>the unquestioned attention of the terrorists make any sense to me either.

True, they wanted to get their attention, assuming the dudes were a bunch
of horny guys that hadn't gotten it in a while! Risked Uhura's life. I mean real
terrorists would have just blown her away wouldn't they?  Her appearing
out of nowhere in the middle of nowhere. Why even give her a second thought?
Don't get upset now, but even though that scene was a bit far fetched, I still
enjoyed it. Liked the song!

stuff deleted about bird of prey and enterprise sequence and the bump on
              and scotty's bump on the head scene....

                                                 
>>>8) The idea of GOD, a metaphysical being, can be physically resided on 
>>>   a planet.
> >
>>WHy not?  Who are we to say what God can and cannot do.  
>>

>I hope you are just being argumentative because the answer to your question
>should be pretty obvious. 

Yes, I was, but if God chose to reside on a planet then he could, right?

>>>9) God turns out to be Another Evil Alien(tm). Oh, how original.
>>
>>Yes, well noboday said the screen play would be totally original.  And
>>the point was that it was not really God.  Sybok had not found HEAVEN or
>>God.
>>

>I don't see how your "point" connected to the theme (searching for god).
>So this thing is not god, what does that say about the existence of god
>and more importantly, the search itself? 

well, actually the only one really searching for God was Sybok. Kirk and
co had to go along for the ride. The movie points out that the search for
God, his very existence will and has driven man to go to the extreme.  showed
it in the movie.  Sybok kidnapped,held hostages, influenced others to go
along with his scheme by brainwashing them, stole a ship because he
THOUGHT he found the answer.    

>>>10) Really, Captain, what did you EXPECT to be able to accomplish by 
>>>    shooting a photon torpedo at god?
>
>>I believe they knew it wasn't God.
>>

>But it is something that was powerful enough to be mis-identified to be 
>god, which by definition is infinitely powerful.

True, stupid to fire at something even though you know its not God but you don't
know how much power it has.
>>
>>>12) The big speech of God is in our heart. And they say star trek is not 
>>>    just for kid.
>>
>>No, he said maybe what we are searching for, God in this case, is right 
>>here within the human heart.

>What exactly does that mean? Is God a physical being? Is god an abstract
>prinicple (like love)? 

No, God is a spiritual being.  He is untangible to physical beings.

>>  Thats not a childish remark.

>In my opinion, it is. It is a vague and extremely non-committal answer to
>a very real and definitive question. Just like proposing that we "love
>each other" as a way to solve the race problem. 

The question is real, but answers cannot always be as we would like.  The
question of the existence of God will never be answered on mankinds terms.
Those that believe in God believe by FAITH.  No one will ever be able to
produce the hard core unquestionable evidence of God's existence.  For the
movie to even attempt to answer that question is crazy.  They didn't 
answer, they did the right thing, the search continues.  And the concept of
love eachother for solving the race problem isn't so far fetched.  Most of
us love/like ourselves and we treat ourselves very well.  If we treated all
those around us the way we treat ourselves then how could there be a racial
problem?

><much deleted>

>I don't think we are heading towards any kind of agreement here. You saw
>ST V made some valid points about the search of god. I disagree. I think
>whatever point they made were trivial to the extreme. It serves a major
>dis-service to one of mankind's most valid quest.

I don't think it is a dis-service.  It made you stop and think.

>One more thing, I do REALLY hate ST V for ST V itself. I hate it the first
>time I saw it and I still hate it today. Just so you know.... :^)
 
ok.

>It's been fun.

Yes it has!!!!! :-) 

>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Amos Yung          | Macintosh Jr.: The power to crush the other kid.
>yung@r-node.gts.org| 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------