From: jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Jonathan Dwyer)
Subject: When to stop fighting?   (was: Kumite)
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Keywords: sparring
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Queensland
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:23:30 GMT


I'm fairly certain this was discussed to death on at least two previous occasions,
but for the benefit of new people lurking out there reading but NOT posting, two
things may be said:

ONE:  Post!!  Post!!  POST!!  Say what you think!!   This group is for exchange of ideas!!

TWO:  Jonathan Byrd (disguised as jon@zeus.med.utah.edu) writes:

|> tournament fights are almost always stopped when a point is scored, or
|> a fighter is injured.  in the dojo, the fighting is more or less
|> continuous.  when one fighter gets the other at a disadvantage, he (or
|> she) must try to completely crush the opponent.
|> 
|> some may consider this unnecessarily brutal.  i think it is a crucial
|> part of the self-defense aspect of free-sparring.  if you have the
|> advantage, you must continue to press.  you must not stop until you
|> are certain your opponent is finished.

#def SOAPBOX

Yes, yes, yes!!
When someone HUGE and MEAN and ANGRY (because you broke an engagement
after completing, say, a technically brilliant redirection - too bad the arm probably
weighed 18lb on its own:-) throws you face first into a wall and begins to kick the
crap out of you, you may begin to wish that 

	1.  you had followed Sensei Northcutt's advice and carried a gun, or
	2.  you had NOT stopped after delivering your stylish blow JUST LIKE
	    YOU HAD CONDITIONED YOUR BODY AND NERVOUS SYSTEM TO
	    DO BECAUSE OF ALL THOSE TIMES YOU STOPPED SPARRING EARLY!!!

#undef SOAPBOX
*ahem*

No, Jonathan, _I_ don't think you're being unnecessarily brutal, just being aware
that the Bad_Guy_(tm) isn't going to stop until _you're_ finished, so why should you
give away any advantage.  It just means that you have to go to all the trouble of
getting it back again:-)

Of course tournaments are different, they are expostional rather than applied.
You're there to demonstrate knowledge and execution of technique.  Once this is
accomplished, continuing is pointless.  In a _Real_Fight_(tm) continuing is pointless
ONLY when your opponent's threat capability has been removed.

Of course this argument is completely blown away if one defines the opponent's threat
capability as including the ability to run.  In that case: block, hit to disable, RUN AWAY!!
Sometimes you CAN run away - so deliver your 'stylish' hit and go!!  If you're good at
your tournaments you will be good at this too.  Sometimes you CANNOT run away -
so you must go toe-to-toe until one of you cannot move, to be blunt, either because
they are locked up, or because they are not conscious.  Obviously there's always the
possibility of leeway for either point of view!?! 

But in any case, unless you are TRULY studying your M-A only for fitness, havingbeing able
the ability to fight realistically in both an emotion- and adrenaline-charged state may be
somewhere on your list of priorities and certainly can occasionally be useful....  :-)

--
Jonathan "That guy from zeus has such a tasteful name:)))" Dwyer
jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au  jonathan@gauss.psy.uq.oz.au

PS> Anyone who says they're not emotion- and adrenaline-charged in a _Real_Fight_(tm)
    has been reading too many soc.culture.japan Zen postings....  Hey, that reminds me,
    what ever happened to our 'Periodic Aphorism' postings!?!?!?!