HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Subject: Re: male circumcision (was Re: Female Circumcision)
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 02:12:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.013724.14234@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> montas@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Hubert J Montas) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>        Anyways, here's a topic we can discuss, male circumcision.
>I'm circumcised. It feels alright! No special pain, Hygiene is pretty
>cool (i.e. no toe-jam-like deposits around the prepuce). I get regular
>erections and sex is real good (lots of Joy)! I got circumcized when I
>was a young kid, so I don't remember anything about the pain or if there
>was some. So, what about you guys, any good/bad circumcision experience?
>Or any good/bad non-circumcision related happenings? Anybody against male
>circumcision? Do you think that circumcised guys enjoy sex more, or are
>more easily excitable?
>         I think that a circumcised penis is more aesthetically pleasing.
>However, infibulated labias are urgh (at least to me, could be this cultu-
>ral thing). If one had asked me at thirteen or so whether I wanted to be
>circumcised, I would have said no I think. I'd feel It's like the ortho-
>dontist wanting to cut some off your tongue saying that's what pushes your
>teeth forward. I'd rather have my teeth forward than him cutting my tongue!
>Anyways, it happened when I was young enough, and, well, as far as I know,
>there hasn't been negative consequences.
>
>        H.


What you are saying really does not support the arguments of your people. 
You say:

1) You were circumcised when you were a baby.
2) You would not have accepted this to be done unto you if you were 13.

My view is that babies do not have rights at all anywhere in the world!
If you (or anybody else) think baby boys enjoy this circumcision and its long 
aftermath (days for the wound to heal, well after the aesthesia has stopped 
working), then you must have another think coming. Indeed, if you even 
suggest (as others have done) that somehow the element of choice exists in 
the west as far as circumcision goes then you must be crazy!!

J.K.
-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet          "......up to our necks in owls...":
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp   worries of an anti-ozone, owl-killing paranoid.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet)
Subject: Absence of black postgrads (was Re: Absence of black posters from SA)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 10:06:41 GMT
Organization: Dept of Elec Eng, UCT

mark@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes about UCT's Comp Sci dept:
>I would say that about a third of their students are black;
>that about a third of their final-year students are black
>(from what Riel says); and that less than one twentieth of
>their current postgraduate students are black (from the
>faces and photos I see in the hallways). [Racial
>classification can be difficult, and I don't have the
>expertise of the government :-) ].
>
>[...]  Perhaps someone from
>the department could advise us what measures they are taking
>to ensure that there is not such a high drop-out rate amoung
>black students going from undergraduate to postgraduate
>levels.  I would be interested to know whether the "black
>third" of the final-year class just doesn't have good enough
>marks to continue, or whether this is due to other pressures
>(such as finances).

Or to lack of interest - due to different priorities.

At least a year ago, I read a Usenet article somewhere like sci.edu,
discussing a study on the disproportionately low numbers of minority-
group postgraduate students in the States.  A trend was noted that
when the previous generation of a family has no (tertiary) education,
the next generation will get a basic degree and immediately start
earning money for the family.  After two to three generations, the
children start considering postgraduate study.

(And no, I don't have any references :-> )

BEGIN {Opinion}

Poor people without much earning power, and with no job security, 
rely on the collective earning power of an extended family.  Even 
if such a family hasn't had to pay the university fees of a child, 
they've lost that earning power for at least three years.  And the 
marginal benefit to one's earning power of a postgraduate degree is 
pretty low (or even negative - salaries in the academic world are 
much lower than in business, as Riel mentioned :-)

Before I get flamed by readers overseas, let me say I think this is
an example of "African cultural values" (working for the good of 
the extended family) which have largely been lost in Western culture.
And which seem to be ignored by those who worry about population
quotas in postgraduate study [throws Mark to the wolves in self-
defence ;-) ]

An article in the Cape Times within the last week bemoaned the fact 
that not enough young people are going into trades these days, or to 
technical colleges.  There is a perception that the only acceptable 
form of tertiary education is a University degree, when in fact it's 
much easier to get jobs with a trade than with certain degrees (like 
BAs, for instance.)

END {Opinion}.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Heidi de Wet                                 >>>  FREE  TSAFENDAS  <<<
heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za                       and give him back his job
From: 0112wilz@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (zane wilson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Millions of girls brutally mutilat
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:27:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: concave.0112wilz.720977242
Organization: Computer Science, University of the Witwatersrand

In <9074@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:

>Lets see how much you care about the plight of other human beings by allowing
>1(one) black man to make a submission to the net on your account tomorrow.
>Why do you pretend to love us when you are oppressing those like us who live
>near you?

Yo! For your information, I am (as you can doubtless see) on the same machine
as James. Now, I am in Computer Science II here, and EVERY member of my
class, which is at least 40% black, was given an account here, and was
as such able to enter postings in this or any other group. The fact that
they have not done so is not my fault; it is not theirs. However, the
fact remains that they have access. No oppression there. If you feel
*that* strongly about it, maybe I will ask one of them to come here to
the terminal room after the Computer Science exam and enter a posting to this
group. On their *OWN* account. Will that make you feel better?

No doubt I am about to be flamed to kingdom come by a whole bunch of people
for *daring* to stick my nose into an African group. Tough, guys - I was
born here in South Africa, and that makes soc.culture.african my home
territory. Its strange how people claiming to be such saints turn out to
be racists - saying nasty things about people based on the fact that they're
white.

Lets see if we can all grow up a little and not accuse me of being a
white racist pig simply because I am white.
From: philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: male circumcision (was Re: Female C
Date: 12 Nov 92 09:43:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: shannon.1992Nov12.094349.18109
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Xxdate: Thu, 12 Nov 92 10:35:48 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12

In article <10NOV92.21032123@edison.usask.ca> ,
f54oguocha@edison.usask.ca writes:
>can be proud of. And circumcision is one of them. Go to Africa and see
for 
>yourself that single parenthood which is the 'in thing' in the West has
not
>got many followers in Africa because it's not part of our culture. Those
wester-

In South Africa you are definitely wrong. You may put this down to the
break up of traditional families as a result of migratory labour, but
such a break up if on a less serious scale is a common result of
urbanization. Many of the things of which you speak may also have been
traditions in village life in the west before urbanization as well.

Modern "civilization" has had many failures but also many successes,
such as dramatic reduction in infant mortality. Since much of Africa
has not yet gone through a transformation from a traditional to modern
society it is certainly important to try to avoid mistakes others have
made. It would be interesting to have a sociological perspective
on the extent to which problems of modern western society can be avoided
in transforming to a more technological, urban society. How many of these
problems are an inevitable consequence of transformation? What meachanisms
can be used to avoid such problems? Social engineering has a bad name
after many failed experiments but I would argue that most of these
experiments had the same flaw as colonialism: the victims were not
given a choice.
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
From: barnhart@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: IPS:DEVELOPMENT: World Bank coordinating aid to CIS
Date: 7 Nov 92 03:09:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: ddsw1.BxBsry.Eor
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Title: DEVELOPMENT: World Bank coordinating aid to CIS /RELATE/


attn editors: please relate the following item to 'japan: limited
aid to russia reflects tokyo's displeasure' moved from tokyo
earlier.

brussels, oct 30 (ips) -- the world bank will chair a country
coordinating group (ccg) to organise financial assistance for nine
out of 12 former soviet republics.

the first meeting will be in paris, but a date is not fixed yet,
beatrice buyck, counsellor for european affairs at the world bank,
told ips friday.

the chairperson of the new ccg will be russell cheetham, now
heading bank activities in the commonwealth of independent states
(cis). the ccg was founded friday at the request of armenia,
azerbaijan, byelorussia, kazakhstan, kirgizstan, moldavia,
tajikistan, turkmenistan and uzbekistan, at a meeting of donor
representatives in tokyo.

the major donors on the ccg will be the u.s., japan, canada,
australia, the european community (ec), the international monetary
fund (imf) and other international financing institutions.

the u.s. has pledged 442 million dollars and japan 100 million
dollars in financial aid, the latter primarily for humanitarian
works. the world bank was not heavily involved in the financial
aid to the former soviet republics.

efisio espa of the working group on long term perspectives and
structural change (aiece) recently proposed a new institutional
body to bring together the economic institutions, the ec, european
free trade association, representatives of the group of seven most
developed states and the cis states themselves. but buyck said
such a body would not be efficient as the ccg.

financial aid to the cis will not affect the ec's ongoing tacis
(technical assistance to the cis and georgia) scheme, which
offered over 1.07 billion dollars over 1991-1992 to help cis
governments bring about economic reform, recovery, and speedy
integration into the world economy.

buyck said the world bank had resources to spare for the cis.
''we have not reached our lending top yet,'' she said. ec
officials have welcomed the setting up of the ccg after fear that
japan would monopolise international aid to the cis.

''this (aid monopoly) would give the japanese an advantage in
exploitation of the huge resources in the cis,'' noted one ec
official. ''already japanese banks and japanese manufacturers have
already positioned themselves in strategic areas in the cis,'' he
added. (end/ips/cd/bm/rj/92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: blda@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: GAY AFRICANS CORRECTION
Date: 10 Nov 92 12:29:38 -0500

The last letter should read:
I find it interesting that you believe you can
act as a spokesperson for all Africans of any country
in Africa.  I find it more absurd that you believe you know
(as a straight person) whether or not the gay culture exists
in Africa.  Get a clue, gays make up 10% of the population
EVERYWHERE!!!  There are plenty of gay bars in Kinshasa, (Zairians)
 and gays all around you if you just open your eyes, quit being 
homophobic and educate yourself!!!


UYT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: barnhart@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: IPS:ANGOLA: Portugal fears imminent resumption of civil war
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:49:46 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Title: ANGOLA: Portugal fears imminent resumption of civil war


lisbon, oct 29 (ips/mario dujisin) -- analysts here are
increasingly concerned at indications that angola's bloody 16 year
civil war -- which claimed over half a million lives before a may
16 ceasefire -- is imminently about to restart.

they fear that the rebel union for the total liberation of angola
(unita) -- beaten in september's free elections by the ruling
people's movement for the liberation of angola (mpla) -- will
restart the civil war and try to take power by force instead.

on thursday, senior unita official salupeto pena told journalists
in luanda that ''war is imminent in angola'' -- though he said, in
comments broadcast in lisbon -- that party colleagues still had
hopes that unita leader jonas savimbi will prevail in the second
round of the presidential elections.

unita won 35 percent of the vote for the legislature and 39
percent in favour of savimbi in the presidential elections.
savimbi does not recognise these results and claims vote fraud,
despite u.n. observers' reports to the contrary.

however another senior unita official, fatima roque, a lisbon
university professor proposed by savimbi as minister of the
economy if he wins, would only describe the vote as 'irregular',
not ''fraudulent,'' even when pressed.

pena, head of the unita delegation to the joint civil and
military commission established by the peace treaty, asserted that
''no one wants war, but it is possible''. unita broadcasters also
continued to attack u.n. angolan representative margaret anstee,
accused of ''selling out to the mpla for a handful of diamonds''.

anstee and observers from the three guarantor states -- the
united states, russia and portugal -- have repeatedly asserted
that the vote was fair, bar ''a few irregularities... normal in
any electoral process any place in the world''.

leading lisbon conservative daily 'diario de noticias' said in an
editorial that unita had ''overstepped the mark'' by pressing the
fraud claim and criticising international observers. this was
contrasted with the attitude of the ''mpla and the government, and
especially president jose eduardo dos santos, who are adopting in
this phase an attitude of patience and flexibility''.

lisbon has a contingency plan to evacuate some 40,000 portuguese
residents in angola, and has in support the frigate 'vasco da
gama' -- which 'by happy coincidence', according to the portuguese
navy, happened to be on exercise nearby.

russia has already began to airlift out some of its nationals.
the mpla was heavily backed by the former soviet union; unita by
south africa and the u.s. (end/ips/trd/ip/md/ego/tt/rj/92)
From: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Is racism "for whites only"? they are after my brother
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:45:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: catpe.2854.2B029F6D
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/22.5 - Novell User Group, Pretoria RSA

On <10 Nov 1992 22:19> Nick de Kock said to All :

 NdK>>Racism is a SYSTEM of predjudice upheld by military and 
 NdK>economic power. Without
 NdK>>these two it is but a complex of say the kind that blond 
 NdK>haired Swedes might
 NdK>>display to equally white, still wealthy but darker and dark 
 NdK>ahired French.
 NdK>
 NdK>So when the ANC takes power in Azania I would (theoretically) 
 NdK>be able to 
 NdK>call you a "nigger" or a "coon" or (dread word) a "kaffir" and 
 NdK>it wouldn't be 
 NdK>racism would it? Just a _COMPLEX_ - after all once the economic 
 NdK>and political 
 NdK>power had been transferred the _SYSTEM_ would have nothing to 
 NdK>uphold it.

May we assume from this that you are a member or supporter of AZAPO?




--  
INTERNET: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Gay Africans?
Date: 6 Nov 92 04:37:52 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov5.064219.26880@psg.com> chris@psg.com (Chris Pinkham) writes:
>Serious question (honest): Are there no African homosexuals?

If this is a statement, you are wrong and ignorant. If it is a question, the answer is NO. There are no homosexuals in Africa. 
Africa. 

All OF THOSE WHO CLAIM TO BE H-SEXUAL and African learned from other cultures.
There is Zero (0) homosexuality in Africa. Any one who tells you otherwise is
a liar.

Makala
>

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Subject: Re: Mozambique: Ceasefire team in place
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:13:26 GMT

In article <1dq1smINN4a6@mozz.unh.edu> llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius) writes:
>A team of ceasefire observers is now in place in Mozambique...
>The team consists of people from UNITA, FRELIMO, the UN and
>other international personnel...
>

THIS IS A JOKE, RIGHT??!!!! UNITA involved??? CHIT!!!

-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet          "......up to our necks in owls...":
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp   worries of an anti-ozone, owl-killing paranoid.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: ZAMBIA - need info
Keywords: biotech companies
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:11:16 GMT

In <1992Nov9.170719.909@crc.ac.uk> fkhurshi@crc.ac.uk (farha) writes:

>Can anyone give me any info on Scientific  institutions or research 
>companies in Zambia? Or waht fields of research are  popular there.
>If not can you point me in the right direction !

Contact Mark Bennett at the University of Zambia in Lusaka for more
information.  His Internet address is:

	Mark.Bennett@f1.n761.z5.fidonet.org

If you're interested in biotech, I think their medical school is:

	unzamedlib@f1.n761.z5.fidonet.org
-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: jsd@crunch.Eng.Sun.COM (Jules Damji)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: So Idi Amin *was* a Windsor!
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:11:17 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: crunch

In article <1992Nov5.063646.26642@psg.com>, chris@psg.com (Chris Pinkham) writes:
> We suspected all along that Idi Amin was closely related to Elizabeth II.
> Makala may have unearthed a vital piece of information strengthening
> Amin's claim to be king of Scotland. If only Shakespeare were alive
> to record this.

Rumour has it the Idi Amin Dada also contracted sphyllis from Queens'
maid. :-)


jules

--
___________________________________________________________________________________

	Jules S.  Damji			INTERNET : jsd@Eng@Sun.COM
	Sun Microsystems Inc.		LOCAL    : jsd@crunch.eng.sun.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: jsd@crunch.Eng.Sun.COM (Jules Damji)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: So Idi Amin *was* a Windsor!
Date: 8 Nov 1992 01:51:09 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: crunch

> In article <lflgqlINNhrs@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> jsd@crunch.Eng.Sun.COM (Jules Damji) writes:
> >Rumour has it the Idi Amin Dada also contracted sphyllis from Queens'
> >maid. :-)
> >jules

> 
>  Do you know where syphilis came from.......???

Umm... Now, I'll realy have to think about that one...I shall submit
that question to the American game-show hostness Vanna White. :)

Supposedly, she is quite well read, and may know the answer. :)

Jules

--
___________________________________________________________________________________

	Jules S.  Damji			INTERNET : jsd@Eng@Sun.COM
	Sun Microsystems Inc.		LOCAL    : jsd@crunch.eng.sun.com
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Absence of black posters from SA
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:20:02 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <BxM246.3qJ@casper.cs.uct.ac.za> gds@cs.uct.ac.za writes:
>pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
>Oi, so I suppose it is OK for a boer to say "I know kaffirs, they are all
>no-good down to the last one"?
>Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za

No, one is a racist label (Kaffir) the other is an Arabic word intended to 
denigrate non-muslims and was applied to the Europeans the Arabs fought in so 
many crusades. 

Later on, the Boers turned around and used it on other people. Boers gave 
themselves the name Boer which means farmer in dutch. Deny it?

makala
:wq









Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: IPS:GHANA: World Bank clears education loan
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:53:38 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Area: Africa, east
Title: GHANA: World Bank clears education loan


washington, oct 29 (ips) -- ghana will receive a new 45-million-
dollar credit from the world bank's international development
association (ida) to improve its university and polytechnic
system, the bank announced here thursday.

the credit is designed to support a 51.4-million-dollar project
which aims to reform and expand the west african country's
tertiary education programme, the bank said.

ida, the bank's soft-loan facility, provides no-interest
credits but has an annual charge of 0.75 percent on the disbursed
balance and a variable charge of up to 0.5 percent on the
undisbursed balance. (end/ips/jl/yjc/92)