From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: What does IT really mean? (was Re: So this is Christmas?)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:29:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.071044.11768@panix.com> sieh@panix.com (Liquid Tide with Bleach) writes:
	[Gary Dare's Christmas Question deleted.]
>
>It's almost 1993.  Just got back into s.c.as.am after a few weeks of starting
>a new project and getting into the holiday season.  After looking at the usual
>flamefests, I'm going to ask a more relevant question for introspection:
>
>	"How do you look at your life and spend it?"
>
	[Lui's preamble deleted.]
>
	[Call for new paradigms for the future deleted.]
>
>There has been increasingly negativity in the latter part of the year. Perhaps 
>it's because the general mood has soured thanks to the harsh economic climate 
>of the past couple of years.  This is different however from the "shitting"
>that was going on just last month with the whole interracial relationships
>thread and which a few netters were unhappy with.  That sort of "shitting"
>should never stop however.  It's important that disparate opinions and views
>be expressed openly no matter how awkward, painful, or distasteful it may be.
>That's how good things happen.  That thread epitomizes Progress.

The interracial dating thread (not the issue in general) is more a
model of the myth of Sisyphus than an epitome of progress.  We all
struggle here, slowly making progress, almost pushing that huge boulder
over the top, making consensus, understanding each other, and then some
newbie comes by and says either "Why are you Asian guys so hard up?  I
mean, just because you're ugly and stupid and sexist and can't get
dates doesn't mean you should be racist and demand that Asian women go
out with you, when they could be going out with enlightened non-sexist
men who are, of course, white" or "Why are so many Asian girls only
going out with American [sic] men?  I think they have lost their true
self-identify, so they shamelessly chase white men who don't know any
better", and that boulder comes crashing back down again, and we're all
left in the pits of a ground-zero flamefest again.

								To progress,
>there needs to be disagreements, fighting, and battling until something new
>comes out of it.  It's dynamic and change (good or bad) will occur because of
>it.  My perspective is that it shows the diversity of people.  It's makes 
>exciting and interesting lives as well as reading.  In the end, for better
>or for worse, this can only be good.  Let the "shitting" continue because I
>feel this truly reflects one of the big positives of "Asia America".

Hmm, taken out of context, that last line could be a real winner... :-)

>
>As times get worse people always do what they've always done for thousands 
>of years before.  They basically entrench.  This unfortunately will not work
>anymore in this day and age.  And it definitely can not work in America 
>where society is much too diverse -- culturally (not limited to only ethnic
>cultures), socially, economically, politically, philosophically etc.  We
>should strive to be more cognizant of these differences and to accept them
>as well.  To me, most Pan-Asian American advocates fail to do just that and
>so my mostly unsympathetic views on it.  I feel that a good majority of my 
>articles this year have revolved around this issue because I perceive a 
>certain narrowmindedness concerning race relations on s.c.as.am.  Too much of
>an Asian America focus and not enough of an America focus.  Too many barrier
>erecting and not enough barrier destruction.  Old prejudices and biases are
>being replaced by new ones or just being repackaged in a different way.  As
>the 1992 year for s.c.as.am draws to an end, a question is still unanswered.
>So far, besides Andy Shaw who attempted to address the issue in the summer, 
>no one has presented a convincing argument for Pan-Asian America.  No one 
>has so far to my knowledge within or without s.c.as.am come forth with why
>it can exist and be successful.  To all you political Pan-Asian Americanists, 
>I say that you must first come up with a raison d'etre as you feel it should 
>be.  You can never convince someone if you can not point to something and say
>to them that this is in their interest to follow you.  Remember, there are a
>lot of Asian Americans who have different ideas about things and there are 
>many factors working against your success.  All the best to you.

Lui, you keep brining this up, and I keep responding, and you never
respond to me.  Perhaps I'm being too boring or too feeble-minded,
but isn't a *common* interest to fight the same stereotypes and prejudices
that affect us *all* enough of a raison d'etre?  I mean you've phrased
the question before as "Other than anti-Asian violence and discrimination,
is there any good reason for Asian-American unity?"  To me, that question
makes as much sense as asking "Other than the fact that food tastes good
and that you need to eat to survive, can anyone give any good reasons to
eat?  Gee, I guess we shouldn't bother eating."  There clearly is a
justification for "Pan-Asian America".  Whether it can exist or survive is
an entirely different question.  Our wonderful media has managed to convince
large chunks of our population (mainly young women) to starve themselves to
death; the media seems to be doing a good job of fragmenting the Asian-American
community, too.  A goal and the pragmatics of reaching that goal are
independent; but deciding on the goal is clearly a necessary pre-condition.

>
	[Typically New York-centric world view deleted.  :-)]

From a xerox of the Nov/Dec 89 issues of Change, top 5 Asian-American
populations in a Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area:
	1.  Honolulu, HI
	2.  Los Angeles/Long Beach, CA
	3.  San Francisco/Oakland, CA
	4.  New York, NY
	5.  Chicago, IL
	6.  San Jose, CA (see 3)
	7.  San Diego, CA
	8.  Anaheim/Santa Ana/Garden Grove, CA (see 2)
	9.  Washington, DC/Maryland/Virginia
	10. Seattle/Everett, WA
Hmm, looks like the line-up of a good volleyball team.  :-)
According to a class handout that cites the US Census Bureau, 56.4%
of Asian Americans live in the West.

So Lui does have a point, those of us on the West Coast are just lucky.  :-)

>
	[Call for everyone to do his/her best as an individual to make
	 the world a better place, complete with poetry citation, deleted.]
>
>Best of luck and good health to all.  And to those who I've crossed swords 
>with over the years, may we do so again at a different time and place.
>
>Best wishes and Happy New Year,

ditto
					--Alan "I am not Arthur" Hu

>
>//Lui Sieh
>-- 
>[signature presently under new management.  Free rental 
>space available here.  Please inquire.  sieh@panix.com]
>
>


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