From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: UPDATED B.B. SURVEY (LONG)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 12:31:55 GMT

We got a number of new posts from Karate and Kung Fu practitioners
this time, but we still do not have responses from judoka and
aikidoka, or even from Wing Chun practioners, which is surprising
since they are so vocal in other matters. :)

SURVEY OF BLACK BELT COSTS & BENEFITS:  Version 2.0 (Oct. 1992)

What follows is a survey of the costs and benefits of gaining a
"black belt" at various schools both national and international. 
Not only is there wide variation in training costs, but also in
the time required for the "black belt," the first plateau in
training.  Just for the record, the survey was first produced in
Feb. 1991.

For the beginners out there, the variation in time required should
not be a concern to you (unless you just want a cool belt ASAP). 
The variation in the number of years required for that first
plateau is usually just a variation in the amount of dedication
each instructor wants to see.  A person who has been doing
Taekwondo for 7 years may be a 3rd Dan while a person in some
Karate schools may just be getting his 1st Dan, but their skill
levels will be relatively similar. 

Variation in training costs is more important than variation in
time required.  Some instructors consider their training a "holy
mission" and will train for free, although they usually will train
only a few students.  Clubs and Community Classes are the next
step up, and are still relatively cheap.  Commercial Studios
usually range from $40-50/month, with workouts up to 7 days per
week.  And, of course, there are the commercial studios run by
famous martial artists (see entry #15, Alex Sternberg's studio in
Queens).  These may easily run $100+/month, especially if the head
of the school is instructing (does anyone know how much Chuck
Norris or Jhoon Rhee are charging for their services these days?).

Please send me either corrections or additions for the next
listing.  Send email to:

burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

or just reply to this post.

Dakin Burdick
Indiana University, Bloomington.

PS:  The total training costs listed should include all costs
until black belt, including testing fees for the lower ranks.  
Expenses for equipment or uniforms should not be included.  If
you can, please make sure the prices are up-to-date, or at least
cite the year the prices are from.


                                   TOTAL
                  	Test   /-  TRAINING -\
                  	Cost     Cost   Time
Style              	($)      ($)   (years)  Benefits  Source
--------------------------------------------------------------
Iaido 	                 20	  180	   3	E	   13
Jujutsu			 25     1,800      6+    E 	   17
Karate, American	  0	2,000	 6-8	C,J,P	   21
Karate, Goyu-ryu	  0	1,500	 4-5		   11
Karate, Okinawan	  0	1,700	   5	J	   19
Karate, Shorin-ryu	  0(2)	3,105	 5-7 	E,F	    3
Karate, Shotokan	  0	    0	 7-9		    1
Karate, Shotokan	 10	  360	   2		    7
Karate, Shotokan	200	3,500	 4-6		    9
Karate, Shotokan	100	4,580	 4-5	B,C,H	   15
Karate, Wado-ryu	200(1)	  400	 3-4	B,C,E 	    2
Karate, Wado-ryu	  5	1,920	   4		    8
Kendo	                 20	1,500	   5	C,D	    8
Kung Fu, Ngor Chor	  0	1,584	   3	B,I	    7
Kung Fu, San Soo	  0	1,680	 3-5  	H	    6 
Kung Fu, Shaolin	200	  620	   3	B,H,I	   23
Kung Fu, Shaolin        100     1,200	 3-5	M,O	   18
Kung Fu, Shaolin	200	2,500(5)   4	B,H,I,Q	   23
Taekwondo	        120	  500	 2-3	A,C,E,H,N   4
Taekwondo	         95	    ?	 2-3	A,B,C,E,G   5
Taekwondo	        100	  350	 4-5	A,B,C,M	   10
Taekwondo, Moonlee	100(3)	  550(3) 4-5	A,B,J	   14
Taekwondo		140	    ?	   3	A,B,F	   22
Taekwondo	       1002       700(4)   5	B,C,H,M	   16
Tang Soo Do		 75	  985	   3	I	   20
TKA		        200 	2,355	 3-5	B,C,L	   12

(1)  This included 1 wk accommodations at Snowdonia National Park
     in Wales.
(2)  This does not include certification fees for the
     organizations.
(3)  In Australian dollars.
(4)  This does not include testing fees for the lower ranks.
(5)  Training costs go down to $1,300 (about half) with contracts.
 

BENEFITS/REQUIREMENTS FOR BLACK BELTS:

A  = I.D. Card
B  = Belt, usually embroidered
C  = Certificate
D  = Teaching certificate costs extra, and is only awarded at
     the discretion of the organization.
E  = Association with national organization.
F  = Association with international organization.
G  = Magazine Subscription
H  = Free training for associate instructors
I  = Free specialized training
J  = Free training
K  = Annual dues increase with rank.
L  = Change in uniform (for Taekwondo, black trim on uniform)
M  = Uniform
N  = Dinner after test, usually at Chinese restaurant
O  = Must attend regular conditioning sessions
P  = Welcoming party for new black belt
Q  = Dinner after giving tests.

NOTES ON THE SOURCES:

1.  Bu toku kai, University of Kentucky:  "We practice karate-do. 
Some would call it Shotokan, but as master Funakoshi was very
opposed to a Shotokan 'style', we do not use a style name."
	Source:  William K. Glunt, Math Dept., 5th Dan.
	<@s.ms.uky.edu:bud@ms.uky.edu> Wed Jan 23 22:20:29 1991

2.  Highashi Karate Kai, affiliated with (I think) the English
Karate Federation.  Benefits include a certificate and a ceremonial
belt.
	Source:  Benjamin C. Legaspi
	legasba2@mentor.cc.purdue.edu Wed Jan 23 22:35:35 1991 

3.  Asian Martial Arts Studio, Ann Arbor, Michigan.  Membership
in the American Shudokan Association and International
Martial Arts Federation.  Rank is recognized by both
Shorin-ryu karate-do and Shudokan karate-do systems.  "we
also have separate aikido and kung-fu programs that operate
on the same basis, generally speaking."
	Source:  Ben Vonk  
	Ben_Vonk@ub.cc.umich.edu Wed Jan 23 23:47:14 1991 

4.  Indiana University Taekwondo Club, Bloomington, IN. 
Affiliated with the United Federation of Tae Kwon Do
Instructors, a small American federation.  The instructor, until
this year, was Don Burns.  
	Source:  Dakin Burdick, 2nd dan
	burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

5.  Taekwondo School, Tallahassee, FL:  The school was an
American Taekwondo Association (ATA) affiliate.  The ATA is
nationwide, but it is also linked to some schools in South
America.
	Source:  Kenneth A. Garnto, Supercomputer Computations
	Research Institute
	GARNTO@vsken.scri.fsu.edu Thu Jan 24 09:17:04 1991 
	to mail to him, try GARNTO@scri.fsu.edu

6.  Peterson's International Kung Fu San Soo, San Diego, CA:  The
system is also called:  Kung Fu Toy Lee Ho Fut Hung OR Topka
San Soo.
	Source:  Tod Kuykendall   (tkuykendall@ucsd.edu)
	cs163wfn@sdcc10.ucsd.edu Thu Jan 24 13:37:04 1991 

7.  Reported for two schools:
Shotokan Karate at the Univ. of South Alabama, Mobile,
AL:  It was taught as a continuing education course, and
thus two tests were given:  "if we enrolled in the class
for credit, we had to pass a test given by the Sensei
strictly for the purpose of reporting a grade for the
report card.  Although this test was very informal, I
have never known anyone to pass this test, yet fail the
formal belt rank test."

Universal Academy of Gor Chor Kung Fu, formerly Graham's
Academy of Martial Arts, Mobile, AL.
	Source:  Jeff Pipkins  
	uunet!cpqhou!pipkinsj 
or	cpqhou!pipkinsj@uunet.uu.net 
	Thu Jan 24 17:00:34 1991 

8.  Reported for two schools:
Wado Ryu Japan International Karate-do Center, Salt Lake
City, UT.  In 1984-1988, training would have run about
$1,200. 

Utah Kendo Dojo, Salt Lake City, UT.  Jon also notes
that although there was no testing fee (the $20 was for
the certificate), they had to pay an instructor's plane
fare.  Annual dues for a shodan is about $12.
	Source:  Jon Byrd  
	jon@apollo.med.utah.edu Thu Jan 24 17:41:50 1991 

9.  Black Belt Academy, Woodbury Rd., Hicksville, NY 11801:  The
school also teaches Judo & Aikido.	 The Shotokan BB test
costs $35, the belt & certificate cost $165.
	Source:  Brian R. Poppenwimer 
	brp102@rose.psu.edu Thu Jan 24 19:28:47 1991 

10.  American FreeStyle Tae Kwon Do Academy, Pennsville, NJ:  The
style taught was American Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan. 
	Source:  Glenn M. Brunette 
	brunette@sjuphil.uucp  24 Jan 91 17:05:29 GMT 

11.  Goyuryu Karate (School name unknown), Duesseldorf, Federal
Republic of Germany.  Benefits:  "You become eligible to
participate at certain full contact tournaments." 
	Source:  Thomas Otake
	rcs61423@zach.fit.edu Fri Jan 25 09:37:49 1991 

12.  TKA (Taekwondo, Karate, Aikido),  Chang School, Bridgeport,
PA. 
	Source:  Michael Dobbins, Unisys Corp., Devon Engr. Offices 
	tredysvr!dvnspc1!mdobbins@gvlv2.gvl.unisys.com 
	Fri Jan 25 10:51:59 1991 

13.  Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido, West Los Angeles Kendo Dojo: 
Associated with the South California Iaido Federation,
affiliated with both the U.S. Kendo Federation and the Zen
Nihon Kendo Renmei.  The certificate is $10, the test is $10. 
Black Belts are registered with the Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei. 
"Our minimum time between ranks are:  shodan  -> nidan  1 yr,
nidan   -> sandan  2 yr, sandan  -> yondan  4 yr, & yondan 
-> godan  5 yr." 
	Source:  Al Bowers
	bowers@elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov Fri Jan 25 15:08:35 1991 

14.  Moonlee Tae Kwon Do, Queensland, Australia.
	Source:  Ross Milward
	James Cook University of North Queensland
	zlnem@marlin.jcu.edu.au  27 Jan 91 01:25:26 GMT 
 
15.  Shotokan Karate USA, Sensei Alex Sternberg, Queens Dojo, 1815
Ave M, Brooklyn N11210, (718) 253-3400.  Prices were
calculated at $90/month dojo fees for 4 years (total =
$4,320) + testing fees (estimated at $260 total) to black
belt (excluding black belt test).  
	"In 1985 I paid $50.00 for shodan (1st deg.) In 1987 I
had the fee waived because I was no longer considered a
junior instructor (as I was when I took my shodan exam).... 
I trained for two years in a community class that was tought
by an instructor from what later became my Dojo. The cost was
(I believe $4 a class) I trained for 6 months once a week,
and after that 2x a week. One class a week was 2 1/2 hours (I
took 2 consecutive classes after about a month of training
but only paid for 1). The second class that was added for the
year and a half period was 1 1/2 hours. I think I paid $40 a
month when I started training at the dojo. This increased
over the years to $50, though I dont know when. Now my dojo
charges about $90 a month.....  There are discounts if you
pay for several months at a time. There were also fees for
under black belt exams. I took 3 exams @ $15, 2 @ $20, 1@25
and 2 @ $35. The exams are now about 10 - 15 dollars more ea.
now, and Black belt is $100....  There are no strings on the
black belt. There is a rank called Shodan-ho which is given
to a student who performs well enough for black belt but may
need work in a single area.(provisional black belt) It is
rarely used. Black belts do not get written certificates
until a year later though.  When I took my black belt exam
the fee included a silk, embroidered, black belt from
japan.(it was embroidered with my name and style). I compete
all over (I've only left the country once, though I've
competed in international tournaments in the USA, this is
mostly b/c of cost, I had to finance all my trips
personally). I am and have been a member of the following
orgs. AAU, USA Karate Federation, United States Committee of
Sports for Israel (Maccabiah). The trip to Israel was all
expenses paid, with an open ticket. I also got a complete
wardrobe; warmup, team jacket, etc."
	Source:  David Bressler 
	DJBQC@cunyvm.cuny.edu Wed Feb  6 01:47:26 1991 

16.  Tae Kwon Do, Nenows Dynesty, Palmerton, PA.  Training cost
does not include testing fees for lower ranks.  Dojo fee =
$45/month.  Benefits include a "neat-o-poofigins belt and
uniform" (Ed:  I had to include that quote!).
	Source:  SAS124@psuvm.psu.edu Mon Jan 28 16:09:00 1991 

17.  Kodenkan Dan Zan Ryu Jujitsu, Nibukan, Chico, CA.  Black belts
are registered with the A.J.J.F..  The instructor is Soke Lamar Fisher,
kudan (9th dan).
	Source:  Jeff Meyers, sankyu (3rd kyu)
	jmeyers@ecst.csuchico.edu  Sun Sep 27 02:46:18 1992

18.  Shaolin Kung Fu, Chinese Shao-Lin Center, 514 El Paseo de
Saratoga, San Jose, CA.  The instructor is David Soard (from the
Chinese Shao-Lin Center, Denver, CO).
	Source:  Mikel Evins, 1st dan
	mikel@apple.com Sun Sep 27 23:28:51

19.  Isshin Shorinji Ryu Okinawa Te, Academy of Martial Arts, 
Aurora YMCA, Aurora IL.  The style is a hybrid form of karate
derived from Isshin-ryu and Shorinji-ryu.  The instructor is Thoams
Heriaud.  The fees were calculated $1,600 for non-YMCA-member's
fees at $60/session for 6 sessions a year for five years, plus 
$70 in lower rank testing fees ($10 per test, with 7 kyu ranks).
	Source:  Dave Carr, 2nd dan
	dccarr@cbnewssd.att.com
or	david.c.carr@att.com
	Mon Sep 28 07:30:44 1992

20.  Tang Soo Do, Lanier Athletic Club, Cumming, GA.  The instructor is
Jim Williams.  Training costs are calculated for club members:  $20 per 
month plus testing fees for yellow belt ($20), two orange belt tests
($25 each), three green belt ranks ($30 each), and 3 ranks of red belt
($35 each).  Non members would pay $35 per month for training, adding
$540 to the cost of lower rank training.  The black belt test price is
an old one and may have gone up.  Black belts trim their uniforms with
black trim, as in many other Korean schools.
	Source:  Matt Brandt, 1st kup
	matt@drefla.mese.com
or	matt%drefla.mese.com@mathcs.emory.edu
	Mon Sep 28 09:43:27 1992

21.  American Karate, Arlington Karate, 5747 SW Green Oaks, Arlington,
TX.  Instructors are Clayton Johns & J. Pat Burleson.  All lower rank
tests cost $25 each.  The school "used to belong to the AKBBA but it's
pretty much died out."  Black belt's have a one year probationary
period where they must continue to work out regularly.  Also, there
are "some students who clean the studio in lieu of training fees.  
Assistant instructors (lower belts) get discounts on equipment and
fees."
	Source:  Lee Ann Rucker, 3rd dan
	lrucker.parcplace.com Mon Sep 28 16:28:08

22.  WTF Taekwondo, J.W. Suh's Taekwondo, Campbell, CA.  The
instructor is Master J.W. Suh, and the school is associated with
the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF).  Superior athletes can get 
their black belt in 2.5-3 years; normal athletes take 3-4 years.
	Source:  Ray Terry, 2nd Dan
	rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com Mon Sep 28 17:32:59 1992

23.  Reported for two groups:

Northern Shaolin/Northern Praying Mantis Kung Fu, Wang's
Martial Arts, 7211 FM 1960, #270, Humble, TX 77338.  Master
Yun-Yang Wang is the instructor, and black belt contracts are
offered that cut the lower rank training costs about in half.

Texas A&M Kung Fu Club, College Station, TX:  The instructor is Sifu 
Tye Botting.  The charge is $30 per semester plus testing fees 
(tests are at the main school).  The style is Northern Shaolin/Northern
Praying Mantis Kung Fu, and the sifu's teacher was Yun-Yang Wang (see 
above).
	Source:  Tye Botting, 2nd degree black sash
	warlock@pro-haven.cts.com
or	warlock@tamu.edu  Thu Oct 1 21:42:07 1992