HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: ANIA Statement in CBG (was Black artists condemn DC)
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:21:25 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <9212150149.AA25764@lynx.corp.frame.com> jrd@frame.com (James Drew) writes:

>I have also been told by some people that
>they were appalled by Don and Maggie's lack-of-editorial-response; they
>*did* choose to withhold my address, though, and not by my request.)

Yeah, but *I* really don't want anyone fire-bombing your house....
 

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 11:59:46 EST
From: <JMC162@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: End of Crisis (dc)
 <168C0F16E.YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu>

On a related note.  In the new issue of the Flash.  Barry Allen has returned
from the dead to arrive at the Garrick's home for Christmas.  This was a
shock because there seemed to be no warning.  I couldn't be happier however.
Barry was always one of my favorite characters.

Joe C.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen)
Subject: Image: Savage Dragon #3
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:31:18 GMT

Well, I picked up this issue today, and think that if Erik is attacking 
anything here it's the very trends that let Image succeed.  Dragon seems to be 
Marshall Law with a little more restraint.  "I never cared much for you 
showoff, spandexed prettyboys in the *first* place.  Replacing altruistic good 
deeds with commercialized grandstanding and excessive merchandising turns my 
stomach."
     Dragon is a cop.  But he's a modern cop, not a futuristic cop like 
Marshall Law.  He is bound by Reasonable Force, and laws of evidence.  He 
doesn't waste time going after villains to just pound on them, he waits until 
he can arrest them and make it stick.  I like this.  God, I'm going to start 
reading an Image book regularly....
     Dave Van Domelen, well, I already read X-Men....
From: efox@unssun.nevada.edu (Eric Fox)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: McFarlane's art
Date: 12 Dec 92 05:47:14 GMT
Reply-To: efox@unssun.nevada.edu (Eric Fox)
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno

Just picked up the latest issue of Spawn by the ever illustrious Todd
McFarlane...the writing was the typical cliched McFarlane stuff with
little bits and pieces of wannabe humor, so no surprise there...

But where I was surprised was when I noticed the artwork (the main reason
I have been buying the book in the first place).  No, it wasn't in any
weird, funky radically different style or anything--it's just that I
noticed that I was...well...getting tired of it.  I mean, IMHO, it's still
pretty awesome artwork, it just seems to be getting kind of tiresome to 
look at (for me anyway)...

Maybe the problem was that this issue had a lot of drawings of just regular
people--no long flowing capes, no funky intertwined web--just regular people.
And, to tell you the truth, I'm tired of  reading a McFarlane book and
every time I'm expecting to see a regular person and face, I see a big blob
of melted goo with two beady eyeballs, an odd buble nose and a zillion wrinkly
line things everywhere.  Does anyone else have this problem with McF's artwork?
I really love his "superhero" stuff--but I'm just really tired of having all
of his faces (especially those chubby ones he loves so much) look just like
a big gooey mess with huge caterpillar-like eyebrows.

I don't know...maybe it's just me...but McF's style is really starting to
grate on my nerves for some reason...(of course, it might just be because
it's finals week and EVERYTHING is grating on my nerves...:-)

Fox
From: kens@psc.lsa.umich.edu (Ken Small)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Favorite Artists?
Date: 13 Dec 1992 18:43:32 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

In no particular order:

Jerry Ordway
Steve Rude
Steve Ditko
Jaime Hernandez
Gilbert Hernandez
Jack Kirby
Eddie Campbell
Peter Bagge
George Perez
John Byrne (on a good day)
Bill Sienkeiwicz
Frank Miller
Joost Swarte
Jose Munoz
Gil Kane
Todd MacFarlane (if only, if only, if only he'd draw just a little
                 better he'd really be great, but he needs an editor, really)
R. Crumb (although I don't much like his writing)
Richard Case
Dave McKean's covers


-- 
Ken Small           
kens@umich.edu
Consulting and Support Services, University of Michigan
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.animation
From: vgriscep@wam.umd.edu (VGR (Craig Pell))
Subject: Re: Transformers the toy, animated, and comic line
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 07:34:19 GMT

In article <mbecke69.723914532@ursa> mbecke69@ursa.calvin.edu (Mark Becker) writes:
>
>>  Be honest; most of the people raving about the Transformers today (myself
>>included) probably never really "played" with the toys. Instead, we were
>>drawn by (a) the niftiness of the individual transforming gimmicks, (b) the
>>characterization and storytelling of the cartoon/comic line, or (c) both.
>>Nothing wrong with that, but let's recognize that the inherent idea of
>>transforming robots is short-term, and nobody at Hasbro (or anyone else in the
>>toy industry, probably) cares to expand it more than that.
>
>I did!
>I still have my toys set up in my bedroom back home!

Ditto!  And some of the figures are very cleverly designed, and a lot more
than simple toys-with-a-gimmick.
-- 
      | $000C35FA                  <>-----=------------------------=----=----<>
 VGR  | (1812 Overture)            | "The size of the brain is no measure of  |
      | I GIVE UP                  | its capacity."   - Mr. Jonathan Frisby   |
      | YOU MUST BE A  VIDEO WHIZ  <>-----=---------=------------------------<>
From: damatt01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (David A. Mattingly)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Quasar and the New Universe
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:13:53 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


>Anyone want to lay odds on whether or not he's building up to explaining 
>the White Event in the pages of Quasar?


I thought that had already been explained away: the Star Brand created the
White Event when the old man tried to dump it into an asteroid. Later, it
was revealed that the Star Brand even created itself (by being so powerful,
it went back into time).



-- 
        Dave Mattingly              "Who's gonna teach me peace and happiness?" 
damatt01@ulkyvx.ct.louisville.edu   "I was an innocent, now I'm magnificent."
        (502) 584-6707              "Time is money. Sell your watch today." 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jcowling@ophelia.UVic.CA (Scowling Jim Cowling)
Subject: Re: Black artists condemn DC (was Corporate Mainstream...)
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 04:40:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.211146.3161@dorsai.com> mycroft@dorsai.com (Keith Kushner) writes:
>: >If you want truly Africn American comics, heed the slogan of ANIA.
>: >
>: >"Black written. Black drawn. Black distributed. Black marketed. Black
>: >Owned. Black Controlled. BLACK POWER"
>: 
>And if any company had a slogan like that, but substituting "white" for
>"black", it would be deemed racist and sued out of existence... Neat
>double standard, no?
>

What double standard?

Hello?  Hello?  Any oppressed caucasians out there?  No?  Didn't think so.
-------
Scowling Jim Cowling
Creative Writing Department, University of Victoria (opinions disassociated)
-------
Organization: Junior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:06:34 -0500 
From: "Kevin J. Chen" <kc2w+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Favorite Artists?
	<ym+rmxm@lynx.unm.edu>

In article <10DEC199216130901@addvax.llnl.gov> DougLim@llnl.gov writes:
>Who are the favorite comic book artists of the people out on the net
>and why?

Perez!  Perez Perez Perez!

(Okay -- I'm calmer now)

George Perez has been my favorite artist since his work in both Teen Titans
and JLA (the first incarnation)  More recent works by him in recent years
really cemented my opinions (especially the first two years of Wonder Woman
and his return to TT).  Why?  Perez just draws excellently -- he does superb 
facial features and expressions, as well as finely-detailed backgrounds and
scenery.  I was disappointed that he was unable to complete his work
on Infinity Gauntlet; hopefully his upcoming work on Hulk: Future
Imperfect will make up for the interruption.

Does anyone know if he's working on any other projects?

Kevin.
From: silbrmnd@acf3.nyu.edu (Darkmage)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: DC AIDS PSAs
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:19:49 GMT
Organization: New York University

ast2r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Andrew Symons Troth) writes:




>	And the "mature readers" AIDS piece is *certain* to offend some
>	people, but they really have no basis for complaint because they
>	were warned on the first page. On the other hand, it looked to me
>	like McKean probably took a great deal of time and care in laying
>	the piece out and pasting and drawing in the background illos, then
>	drew the Death and JC figures in about fifteen minutes. They barely
>	looked like *people*, much less the characters they were meant to
>	represent.

I agree with you on that!  Death looks like she's having a REALLY bad
hair day, and Constantine is only identifiable by his trenchcoat...
Other than the bad art, tho, the piece was very well done, and I think
Death was definitely the right one to do it.  

>cheers,
>	ast

-Darkmage, Bringer of the Light

silbrmnd@acf3.nyu.edu
des0699@acfcluster.nyu.edu
From: berninge@cs.purdue.edu (James Berninger)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: GL Mosaic (Whazzup w/ This?)
Date: 16 Dec 1992 17:17:57 -0500
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena.cs.purdue.edu

robert@askinc.ask.COM (Robert McMullen) writes:
>Does anyone else think this book should maybe get a chance on the
>Vertigo line instead?  Just give it an artsy new cover style, a la
>Doom Patrol, John Constantine: Hellblazer, Shade, etc., and have
>JS say "fuck" or "bitch" or "shit" every other page (just kidding about
>that last part).
Why be kidding?  Instead of "having" JS say those things, just
*"let"* him say those things.  It makes for a touch of realism in an
otherwise surreal book.  A book like Mosaic just won't do under the
guidelines of the CCA -- only under a "mature" label would it stand
a chance to reach its potential.  (I note that Doom Patrol was,
IMHO, better after getting the label -- not because of the
storylines that followed, but because I could feel the things that
Cliff and Jane experienced every time Cliff looked in horror and
said "Shit.")

>I think the politics of the Mosaic world could be better investigated
>and told in mature-reader format.
The politics *and* an unlimited variety of new ways to express the
cultures, lifestyles, etc.

  ______   Jim Berninger: berninge@cs.purdue.edu  |     Hate is not     ______
  \ \  /     Green Lantern Fan, Extraordinaire    |   a Family Value.   \ \  /
   \/\/   "I don't *wanna* play Leona Helmsley!"  | - - - - - - - - - -  \/\/
    \/        -- Elmyra Duff, Tiny Toons Xmas     |  Boycott Colorado.    \/
Xref: sparky rec.arts.comics.misc:10038 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:3576
From: jwlr@escher.cc.rochester.edu (James Willer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks
Subject: Re: Nature of Phoenix and the Multiverse
Date: 20 Dec 92 23:30:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB) writes:

>The concept of the Phoenix force as a unique entity in the entire Marvel 
>Multiverse is totally FUBARed.  {Marvel's whole consept of a Multiverse

I thought it was a stupid idea, from the moment I heard it.

>3) The last and most important problem stems from the very idea of alternate 
>timelines itself.  If timelines branch when different events happen (as Marvel 
>has presented) then how can Phoenix just vanish from other worlds whose only 
>difference is that a particular atom of uranium decayed rather then another 
>atom.  {Not all alternate worlds have to be ratically different, some may only 
>have different atomic and microscopic histories and still be identical to each 
>other at the macroscopic level.}
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is pretty much the reason I thought it was stupid.

>    Marvel seems to be playing with the 'go back in your own past and create
>a new timeline' idea {reprecented by Bishop}, the 'you can only enter into 
>another Earth's past' {Represented by Rachel Summers and Guardians of the 

Those two concepts are actually the same. (The reason you can't enter your
own past is that your presence *creates* a divergence.)

>Galaxy}, and the 'you can't change history because you being there is part
>of history' (Time loop idea) {The Thing becoming Blackbeard the pirate
>is one example, the resent battle between Thor and Loki being another} all

I'm not familiar with the Thor/Loki example, but most other examples I've
heard of (like Thing/Bluebeard) have been retconned into the "divergence"
concept.

>being used without tieing them together.  Like PreCrisis DC, Marvel has made 
>Time Traveling and dimension travel too easy and disjointed. There needs to 
>be a standard idea of how time and dimension travel should work before 
>things get more messed up. And patch fixes like the Time Variant Authority
>to try to prevent the time stream from becoming Grand Central Station
>are not going to solve the problem because other writers may not use them.

Where's Mark Gruenwald when you need him?	I-)

				Jamesa Willer
[don't call us, we'll call you]
From: bh929@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Palij)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Sin, Gaiman defend Spawn,Image
Date: 13 Dec 92 18:12:00 GMT
Reply-To: bh929@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Palij)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, aw3a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anatole Wilson) says:

>Have they decided what issue of SPAWN Neil Gaiman will write?

In issue #6 of Spawn the following writers were advertised 
as writing in the following issues:

 #     Writer
---  -------------
 8   Alan Moore
 9   Neil Gaiman****
10   Dave Sim
11   Frank Miller

>Anatole Wilson                  "If anyone objects to anything I say,
>-----------------                I am prepared not only to retract it,
>                                 But to deny under oath that I ever said it
>                                 in the first place."     

-- 
Just this person's view of netlife.

======> mike palij ::  bh929@cleveland.freenet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: alex@animal.Bell.CA (Alex Laney)
Subject: Fanzine - The MAD Panic
Organization: Bell Canada, Ottawa, Ontario
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:00:16 GMT

[ Article crossposted from rec.arts.comics ]
[ Author was My name is... ]
[ Posted on Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:24:20 GMT ]


	I publish a fanzine for MAD, PANIC and Alfred E. Neuman fans and
	collectors. Typical issue is 12 pages. Sample is $1.50 and 6 issue
	subscription is $7.50. Foreign is $2.00/12.00 in U.S. funds.

	Send to: Ed Norris
		 91 Kelly Drive
		 Lancaster MA 01523

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Norris   norris@mlo.dec.com             | 
--or--      norris%madmag.enet.dec.com     |
--or--      !decwrl!madmag.enet!norris     | "When it comes to hindsight,
                                           | everybody's got 20-20 vision!" 
Digital Equipment Corporation              | -- Alfred E. Neuman
143 Main Street  MLO3-6/C9                 |    January 1969
Maynard MA 01754                           |
(508) 493-0598                             |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Opinions expressed are my own, and are not necessarily those of Bell,BCE,etc.,
or any corporation, agency or association I may be affiliated with.
  Alex Laney, Independent User Interface Guru, IWS/TRACS Project.
  Addr: xela@pinetree.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: emery@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Scott Emery ACF)
Subject: Re: Sandman - Old Gods
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:00:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.213214.20496@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:
>conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei) writes:
>
>>Gods can choose to leave their roles if they so desire, but a lack of
>>followers does not imply a TOTAL loss of power.
>
>C'mon. Ishtar destroyed the last few followers of her once-great ideology
>and *poof* no more Ishtar...
>
>Tanaqui
>
>"Altering your state of consciousness nevertheless can gain you access 
> To a techno-tribal, positively primal, shamanic and artistic archaic revival"

	With due respect... that one (the term escapes me, let's call it
a dance hall) dance hall is hardly the only one of it's kind in
existence (some a lot less seedy than they are typically potrayed in
comics). If these dance halls are where Ishtar is now getting her
worship in, it is no wonder that she had the power to flash-fry the
place (please pardon the terminology). My feeling is that one of the
weaknesses of gods is that they have no control over who worships them.
I feel that the instances are fairly obvious, but let me count buddha,
hendrix, jim jones and gahndi. If those don't suit you, there are
others.  Point? (as if...) I am misinterpreting (safe bet) the story
to mean that Ishtar has control over her life/death/absorbtion into the
Dreaming. I hold that she has no such control.

Scott Emery
emery@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Subject: REVIEW: Youngblood #0
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:04:53 GMT

Well, since I'm the only Rob Liefield's art fan on the net,
I ought to give my review of YB #0.

Someone at Image must be a C programmer, obviously, to
start Image COmics and YB at 0 instead of 1.

Bad jokes aside, on to YB #0.

It's interesting to see how Stone (blood stone? battle stone?
I can't remember!) ties into Brigade. I mean, he left in
*disgrace* and they just let him start a new super-duper
group by himself outside the law? I don't understand this.

And, how many of the YB teams *are* there? The first page
hinted there were lots. That whole issue, and the people
Shafted meets when he's leader, is very vague.

I don't like the fill-in guy at all. His art was pathetic.
Is Rob trying to make himself look good by getting someone
awful on a few pages? What's with him anyway? If the book
is months and months late, why not just delay it til
Rob finishes the other pages? :)

He's doing poor advertising for the new series Bloodwhatever
with those pencils, unless he's like the Supreme guy and 
does a 180 turnaround in the art by then. I doubt I'll even
get that book.

Rob had a few good panels and SPLASH PAGES (gigantic
splash pages, there were 5-6 of them!). Most of the art
looked like pin-ups. Rob used to be able to tell a story
with his art, like X-Forced-Him-To-Leave, but now it's
a few good splashes and not much else.

I dunno, really. I think Rob's getting complacent with
his success and letting his book(s) suffer. He's a lot
better when he's inking or co-plotting than he is with 
Youngblood. I wish the guy who drew Supreme would pencil Rob's
books, and let Rob ink and maybe co-plot.

This is still better than 99% of Marvel's stuff, just cos of the
coloring.

Scary, huh?

:)

Scott

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: RE: Question ...
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 08:09:03 EST

> >In article <1992Dec8.050422.25504@leland.Stanford.EDU> firestar@leland.Stanf
> >>
> >>Does anyone have any idea what the very first comic book was?  Was there a
> >>"first" comic book?  How about who the first superhero was?  Inquiring
> >>minds ...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Firestar
> >>--

The first comic book was FUNNIES ON PARADE in 1933, according to most 
sources.  The "funny pages" were put together as a magazine for the first 
time.

The first superhero was Superman in 1939.

On the other hand, it depends how you define the words.  Gilgamesh was a 
superhero and the stuff on Egyptian pyramids sure looks like sequential 
art to me.

Namaste,
Elizabeth


Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: speterse%peruvian.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (soren--Ms. Jackson if you're nasty)
Subject: Re: ANIA Statement in CBG (was Black artists condemn DC)
Date: 12 Dec 92 21:57:26 MST
Organization: The Erland Cult

In article <1992Dec11.235600.5595@midway.uchicago.edu> lf7z@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.230712.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> 4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (John LaRocque) writes:

>>[ PERSONAL note. I must be really dumb. I didn't "know" about that stuff about
>>the Egyptian Gods. And as for Egypt being the mother civilization......]

>No, not dumb, just rational.  

Not even rational--just lucky.  Sometimes the "white" "western civiliation" 
popular wisdom happens to be correct.  That's nothing to be proud of, though--
the unexamined life and all that....

This is getting real far away from comics though.  Are there any good 
comics that deal seriously with Egyptian religion and culture?

I mean serious--the Living Monolith doesn't count.

--
    "From your signature it is obvious that you are a homosexual"
soren f petersen           :        i AM NOT          :    --Doc
speterse@peruvian.utah.edu :  THE university OF utah  :
"How could I dance with another/When I saw him standing there"  --Tiffany
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine)
Subject: Re: Books of Magic: Titania *not* Tim's mother
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:04:46 GMT

rooney@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael Sean Rooney) writes:

>	Neil is just trying to strike a mysterious pose, like
>all-too many of his characters and storylines.


But he does it *so* well.

LJC
-- 
Lady Johanna Constantine | "When you remove the pin, Mr Hand
tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu    |  Grenade is no longer your friend"
Founder of the Church of Our Lady of the Perpetually Clueless
Disclaimer: The U of I doesn't give a damn or blast WHAT I do