HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:22:08 CDT
From:         Wes Chapman <WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

Now hold on just a minute.  Some of us actually _like_ some New Age music out
here.  And you can't tell me that Michael Hedges or Alex DeGrassi are slouches
in the technique department. Yes, there's plenty of bad new Age--just as there
is plenty of bad classical, jazz, country--and dare I mention rock?  Play rock
backwards and you get Paul McCartney saying that he died . . .
hopelessly out of sync with the world again,
                                     Wes
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: MBU-L%TTUVM1.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu
X-VMS-To: NET::"MBU-L%TTUVM1.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu"
X-VMS-Cc: WWOOD
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:45:00 EDT
From:         WWOOD@LUCY.WELLESLEY.EDU
Subject:      Re: Computer Travels

Jim,

I've really been enjoying your computer traveller tales.  Wish I had time
to say more.  I don't.  But I'm glad you do.  Keep them cards and letters
comin.'

Wini at Wellesley
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 11:31:29 EST
From:         "(Kim Ballard)" <ballardk@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again
              "R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU" at Oct 2, 92 10:35 am

Bob C.,
I just read about your "dream class" which would basically involve having
students (and teacher, too?) memorize and recite poems culled mainly
from "Golden Treasury" books. The posting made me think about a great
workshop/performance I just saw at the Indiana Teacher's of Writing
Conference last weekend. The workshop/performance was called "Poetry
Alive," and, I think, was put on by a group with the same name.
Anyway, the two poets/teachers/performers who did the
performance/workshop had about 50 of us K-college English teachers
acting out (performing) such poems as "Casey At the Bat," "The Highway
Man," "I'm Nobody," "Jabberwocky," etc. In one 45 minute session, they
showed a smaller group of us (25) how they teach K-adult level participants to
memorize lines of poetry, "score" the lines (decide how many voices
will speak), and "script" the lines (decide how the lines will be said
and the actions that will accompany them.) At least one of the points
of this workshop was that kids (& others) should be given
opportunities simply to enjoy poems without the analysis.  However, it
was also clear that the type of activities which take place encourage
both interaction with the poems and attempts to understand them, if
not exactly to analyze them.  So . . . maybe you should consider
adding something about performing poems next time you introduce your
dream course to your faculty--just to see whether the idea gets shot
down any faster :)
--
Kim Ballard
Purdue University
ballardk@mace.cc.purdue.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 07:05:45 LCL
From:         George Duckett <George_Duckett.ADMIN_UTL@QM.UTAS.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Phobias

                      Phobias
Dear colleague,

I'm looking for information relating to any work involving overcoming the fear
of the use of technology, computers, AV equipment etc.

Can anyone point me in the direction to find:

1.     A  medical definition for the fear of technology and or computers.

2.     Is anyone out there doing research into computer anxiety?

3.     When you come upon a person with a high level of computer anxiety in
your class how do you deal with it?

George Duckett
George.Duckett@admin.utas.edu.au
From: RONRON@USU.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Imitatio & Schemata & Jazz
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:09:02 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Johndan -- remember that when I spoke of imitatio I spoke of a _range- of
possible imitative strategies, of which letter-by-letter copying is just
one.  I think your argument was that letter-by-letter copying is
both time comsuming and inefficient?  I haven't much of an argument
with that, since I don't have data.  However, the connections between
cognitive skills and the associated motor skills is an intersting
one, and it is not impossible that the letter-by-letter copying
in some way can facilitate the development of the higher level
skills we assoiate with writing. Ron
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:02:00 EST
From:         BECKY RICKLY <00RJRICKLY@BSUVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, one more time

Karen--what about the article by Lunsford and Connors re:  Frequency
of Errors in Freshman Writing (subtitled something like "Ma and Pa
Kettle do Research")?  I have a soft spot for that article--I was one
of the graders stuck in the musty old English deptartment library
counting comma splices.  As I recall, they found that teachers often
spent time marking things easily dashed off--like "c.s."  or "frag."--
rather than suggesting more helpful specific changes.



Becky Rickly
Ball State University
00RJRICKLY@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 05:28:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) grammar confused (12)

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 11:13:27 CST
From: Ralph L. Wahlstrom <rwahlstr@hp.uwsuper.edu>
Message-id: <40410.rwahlstr@hp.uwsuper.edu>
Subject: grammar confused (12)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

Karen, I think one of the big issues in English departments, composition
faculties, and basic writing courses is the definition of "grammar."  Is
grammar a set of rules and exercises on nouns and verbs or is it the
structure, the common and acceptable usage of language?  When we teach
people to use language effectively according to certain standards, we're
teaching grammar.  I suppose this one's been beaten nearly to death, but it
doesn't hurt to repeat it one more time:  Students learn to write by
writing, and in the context of that writing-thinking about writing-acting
on writing-interacting with writing, they develop a proficiency in the
grammar of English.  Someone mentioned that teaching traditional grammar is
the easy way out.  I have to tell you that I think that is your main
obstacle.


Ralph       rwahlstr@hp.uwsuper.edu

------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:03:05 EDT
From:         rselfe@MTU.EDU
Subject:      Computer Travels

>Subject:      Computer Travels
>   I think students need a say, too. Dickie Selfe lets
>undergraduate consultants have a voice and a vote on what
>goes on in MTU's labs. He gives them responsibility, a stake
>in what's happening. (This is correct, isn't it Dickie?)


I try.  We talk and talk and talk.  They look at our budget, scoff, and
then we decide to do next.
Dickie Selfe              rselfe@mtu.edu
Humanities Dept.          906-487-3225
Michigan Technological U.
Houghton, MI   49931
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 07:12:42 CDT
From:         "(McDonald James C)" <jcm5337@USL.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Fwd: In-school networking (10)

Well, if STAR TREK is any indication, books will make a comeback in the 24th
century.  One of the Star Trek movies, I think, made a point of Captain Kirk
doing something as old-fashioned as reading a book (an antique) instead of a
terminal, but Captain Picard is often seen reading books on The Next
Generation.
	Jim McDonald
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Samford University Writing Programs
X-Acknowledge-To: <DHROBERT@SAMFORD>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:40:37 CDT
From:         "David H. Roberts" <DHROBERT@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, one more time

On Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:08:34 -0600 <RONRON@USU> said:
>Thank you David for that help with the Hartwell artricle.  But my memmory is
>even worse than that.  The Kolln article is not "Closing the Doors on Alchemy"
>as I suggested, but "Closing the Books on Alchemy."  It's all that
>aluminum. Ron Shook

door, books.  what's the diff to an alchemist?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:01:54 --500
From:         "pws1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Paula W. Sunderman)" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject: Re: File IACDES

 I received the following note from Paula Sunderman (Sunderland?). I don't have
 the materials she requested, but some MBUers do. Could you send her some
 materials off the list? Or maybe write and get a more specific request?
 Thanks.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
 *** Forwarding note from PWS1    --CMSNAMES 09/28/92 14:36 ***
  X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
  Received: from ASUACAD (SMTP) by ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU (Mailer R2.08) with BSMTP
   id 4666; Mon, 28 Sep 92 14:36:12 MST
  Received: from Ra.MsState.Edu by ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with
 TCP;
     Mon, 28 Sep 92 14:36:11 MST
  Received: from Isis.MsState.Edu by Ra.MsState.Edu (4.1/6.5m-FWP);
             id AA27502; Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:34:35 CDT
  Received:  by Isis.MsState.Edu (4.1/6.0c-FWP);
  	   id AA01838; Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:34:34 CDT
  Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:34:34 CDT
  Message-Id: <9209282134.AA01838@Isis.MsState.Edu>
  To: IACDES@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

  David,

  Sounds like I got one of the funny messages you mentioned.  However,
  if you have any files on computers and writing or on multimedia
  that you can share, I would appreciate it.  I'm particularly
  interested in sources/bibliography/relevant articles, etc.
  Thanks so much.
  Paula
  pws1@ra.msstate.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 00:20:43 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: ...and I thought heaven was Iowa

 *** Reply to note of 09/28/92 19:00
 Hey, I'll make all you fall freaks feel better. It was 108 in Phoenix today.
 Our leaves aren't turning. They're gasping. I'll have no more to say until
 about February.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:29:54 EDT
From:         mer <MROSE01@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Jazz and New Age
              5 Oct 1992 12:16:30 -0400 from <R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU>

Bob:

               You're right. I was playing fast and loose with personal
               preference.  I hate New Age music: I experience their
               performances as a kind of aural hostess twinkees.
               I mean, listen to Winston, and then listen to Chick Corea's
               piano improvisations, or Kohln Concert by Keith Jarrett,
               or John Coltrane and Pharoah Sanders Live in Seattle, or
               John McLaughlin's My Goals Beyond, Miles'In a Silent Way,
               even Pharoah Sanders and Leon Thomas'"The Creator Has a Master
               Plan", or even the early Paul Winter Consort with Ralph Towner,
               and you can have your joy and your intellectual kicks too.

               But, to quote Sly, from Sly and the Family Stone:

                             "Different Strokes, for Different Folks."


                                                mer
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 06:13:37 EDT
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was cyselfe@WALKER2.HU.MTU.EDU
From:         "(Cindy Selfe)" <cyselfe@MTU.EDU>

Megabunnies,

Cindy, here, back from a visit to Boise--a beautiful landscape and plenty
of sunshine!

Just a note about Jim Crosswhite's important comment--I think lots of
computer places give lip service to student input and consultants'
suggestions, but often this input is limited and marginalized.  Dickie not
only gives consultants control over lab policy, hours, layout, environment,
etc.--he puts our money on the line--somewhere around $30,000 a year, in
fact.  He meets on a weekly basis with a cadre of senior
consultants--anyone who wants to provide some systemmatic input into
expenditures--and they let him know how our budget should be spent--they
come to own the environment of the Center for Computer-Assisted Language
Instruction by making decisions about how much money to spend on supporting
people, envirnment, hardware, and software. These students, in framing the
principles and the specifics of our speding policies, spend hours poring
over new product information, doing research on hardware and software, and
making policies that help us fulfill our educational goals.  For the most
part--except for a few technical consultants--these folks VOLUNTEER their
time for this important purpose, often spending hours a week on research
and meetings--they do this because, I think, because they want to shape
their learning environment.  How often do we really let students do such a
thing in public education?  Just don't tell our administration!!

Cindy


  Cynthia L. Selfe
  Humanities Department
  Michigan Technological University
  1400 Townsend Dr.
  Houghton, MI  49931

    Internet:  CYSELFE@MTUS5.CTS.MTU.EDU
    Telephone: (906) 487-2447
    Fax:       906/487-3347
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 24 Sep 1992 16:06:53 CDT
From:         Eric Crump <C509379@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject: irc tonight

IRC tonight (9 p.m. CDT at channel #cw)

Unless something else asserts, a continuation of the discussion
that sprang out of the creation of the new division at UT-Austin
and has turned to dreams of a department of discourse.

As David Russell sez:
"As writing became one more subject among many, it ceased being
a central part of all of them."
-and-
"With each new cycle of complaint and reform, the myth of transience
became more entrenched."
(both on p. 63 of _Writing in the Academic Disciplines_)
-and-
"America has never come to terms with the submerged conflicts that
underlie its attitudes and approaches to advanced literacy" (9).

but there is hope...

"But unlike its predecessors, the current WAC movement has elements
within it that do not ignore or attempt to supplant institutional divisions;
rather they work through the disciplines to transform not only student
writing but also the ways the disciplines conceive of writing and its
teaching" (299).
-and-
"The rising demand for writing skill . . . will not likely be reversed,
and the growth of information technology may continue to increase it"
(305).

So, is writing destined to remain on the margins, or is it about to become
a pervasive concern?

Hope some folks drop in and chat.

--Eric Crump
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:08:42 EDT
From:         mer <MROSE01@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Jazz as folk music,
              or was that Hungarian folk music? (19)

Robert:

              The classical/jazz cross pollenation is quite complex.
              Both Bach and Beethoven got their initial reputations
              as improvisers in contests: spontaneous composition of
              variations on a given, unprepared theme).
              Arthur Honegger, Erik Satie, and the other Paris Six
              rew from jazz rhythms and altered notes; Stravinsky
              was profoundly influenced by American Jazz--take for
              example L'Histoire du Soldat's constantly changing time
              signatures from bar to bar take syncopation to the heights
              of apotheosis. The American Charles Ives offers the finest
              integration, at least up to the incidental music of Chick Corea.


              On the other side of the Atlantic, Duke Ellington's
              Concerto for Cootie ('36?) conforms to sonata allegro form,
              while Charlie Parker read Bartok's string quartets carefully
              for altered harmonies based on Hungarian Minor scale(s) and
              actually stood outside of Stravinsky's home in Hollywood,
              hoping to meet the man, so to speak, but was thought of as
              just a colored vagrant and got shooed away.


              Keith Jarrett is a fine stylist as well as a prodigy with
              scary chops.  I haven't heard his clavier recordings, but
              I would expect them to be technically flawless and stylistically
              authentic.  (He got kicked out of my alma mater, the Berklee
              College of Music, Boston, for tuning the practice pianos to
              quarter-tones--by ear!)

                                                              mer
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 07:15:57 CDT
From:         "(McDonald James C)" <jcm5337@USL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

Imitation really came under attack a century ago when English departments were
young.  The two main objections were that memorizing, copying, etc. were
drudgery and that an emphasis on imitation interfered with students trying to
acquire their own style and voice, an objection out of romanticism.  An
unspoken objection was that imitation was part of the classical curriculum and
English in taking over from classics departments had backed away.  Interestingly
the concern about developing a unique and individual style led even advocates
of imitation like C. S. Baldwin to warn students not to try to _sound_ like
Robert Louis Stevenson and other popular model authors but to imitate the
"structure" of their writings.
  But imitation sneaks back in in other forms.  The reader becomes the most
prolific freshman comp textbook of the century.  Literature teachers stress
memorizing in their classrooms.  Students spend hours copying passages for
grammar exercises and hours copying, paraphrasing, and summarizing passages for
research papers.
  Drudgery, I think, has long been a problem with exercises of memorization and
copying.  When a student loves a model--as Phaedrus did with Lysias--memorizing
and paraphrasing can be fun.  But when they are forced to, for hours a year,
I'm not sure that the pedagogy accomplishes what it does at the cost of making
students hate writing.  Somehow teachers have to make this pedagogy "wordplay,"
which some classical teachers seemed to have done.  Others relied heavily on the
stick to support exercises that students came to hate.
  You got into the topic of my dissertation.  I had to get a word in.
    Jim McDonald
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:03:02 CDT
From:         Wes Chapman <WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

Re Jeff Galen's objection to imitatio (that it offers to the student a model
of learning as bowing down before the "greats"):  at least some of that could
be alleviated somewhat by choosing works that are non-canonical or to which
the terms "great" or "non"great" just don't apply (magazine prose, technical
manuals, etc.)--what matters is the "rhythm" you're trying to impart, not its
course.  And I think that the context for such an exercise matters, too:  if
one goes into class and says, "let's do some rote memorization," students are
going to get a very poor image indeed of what learning is about.  However, if
one introduces imitatio as an exercise in grammar and style, then they're
likely to think about the exercise differently (not many of them will have
been taught "grammar" like this!).

Still, I wonder a little about the practicality of the technique.  I like the
idea, and have had students imitate styles and sentence structures before
(introducing these exercises, BTW, with a version of mer's jazz analogy--the
technique is different, but the pedagogy is pretty similar).  What I wonder
about is this--is there really enough time to internalize "rhythms" by this
method in the short space of a single class? Anybody know of any research
which looks at how long it takes to internalize prose rhythms and structures,
and what frequency of practice is most desirable for quick and durable results?
Wes Chapman
Illinois Wesleyan University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sun, 27 Sep 1992 19:01:05 CDT
From:         Eric Crump <C509379@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Idaho Transformation
              26 Sep 1992 19:21:26 CDT from <S2.RSB@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU>

On Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:21:26 CDT Bob Boston said:
>...our objective is to teach
>writing, not to teach computer proficiency. I'm already seeing that these
>objectives conflict.  We want to spend as little class time as possible on
>computer training so that we can concentrate on teaching writing.  Therefore,
>we want to use hardware and software that require little computer expertise--
>precisely what the administration does NOT want us to use.
>
I know it's not always practical to teach computer proficiency along
with writing, Bob, but I would argue that it is also unfortunate that
the two are so often separated. Here, anyway, computer proficiency
is something (like writing often is) that teachers and administrators
assume students will pick up somewhere else. Somebody else's job.
It doesn't make sense to me to segregate writing technologies from
writing. Using computers doesn't come naturally to human animals.
Our lab is piddly small compared to yours, and is correspondingly
easier to manage, but I encourage our writing assistants to *look*
for opportunities to help students learn things about word processing
and electronic communications. Most of them learn on their own what
they absolutely have to know, but the interaction with the machine
remains more of a lop-sided battle than it has to be. I can't help
but think that frustration at their own inability to make the
machine behave has some negative impact on their writing. Soon's
the technology becomes more "transparent" they can focus more
completely on what they want to say, rather than fretting about
whether the laserprinter is going to print their whole paper on
one line, or somesuch.

I just wish the curriculum had room for a more integrated approach.
but it don't.


Eric Crump
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:54:19 EDT
From:         "(JOHN JOHNSON-EILOLA)" <jeilola@MTU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ...and I thought heaven was Iowa
              "LHAMPLYONS@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU" at Sep 27, 92 8:45 pm

Liz: If heaven is the opposite of the fires of hell, then you'd really
want to be up here in the great northwoods. Recent reports indicate
brushing of snow off car windshields. But the leaves look pretty.

--

- Johndan Johnson-Eilola                                  jeilola@mtu.edu
  Humanities Department                              jeilola@mtus5.bitnet
  Michigan Technological University
  Houghton, MI 49931