From: allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan)
Subject: Re: The Anaheim Mice and the Miami vICE may be in!
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:24:41 GMT

hujic@ecf.toronto.edu (HUJIC DAMIR) writes:

>In article <1992Dec11.161527.3370@bmers145.bnr.ca> macauley@bmerh760.bnr.ca (John MacAuley) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec11.124224.19160@abo.fi>, MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI
>>(Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
>>|>
>>|>Wrong again, Gerald! Hamiltonians already have the Maple Leafs and
>>Sabres (OK,
>>|>some distance away though). The three established franchises around the
>>|>Southern Ontario area (Toronto, Buffalo, Detroit) don't need another team
>>|>stealing their fans. 
>>|>
>>|>MARCU$

If I lived in Hamilton, I would feel insulted... What you would be
telling me is "You can't have a team... You have to make a 2 hour trip
to watch NHL hockey. So there..."

>>=================================
>>
>>MARCU$,
>>
>>If any city in North America deserves a franchise it is Hamilton.  They have
>>the BEST facility, the best fans, and great financial support.  

>Fans and financial support is questionable.  NHL games in Hamilton are a
>bust this season.  And I doubt that Hamilton could get 16,000 season
>ticket holders (like they said they had the past expansion time).  Somehow
>putting $50 bucks down for season's tickets, is not the same as putting
>$4000 for a pair, especially in Hamilton.

The NHL was brain-damaged when they scheduled Neutral-site games
in Hamilton. One of the neutral-site games featured, guess who, the
Buffalo Sabres! Now, Buffalo had just screwed Hamilton out of a francise;
how many Hamilton hockey fans are going to be keen on seeing the Sabres play?
(Also, there was a game the previous night, featuring the Leafs in Hamilton,
which DID go well.)

As for the fan support - 16,500 season tickets, waiting list of 8,000.
What evidence is there that people would not buy season tickets the second
time around?

As for financial support - The Hamilton bid was supported by Tim Horton's
Donuts. (Not as rich as Disney, but still, much better support than
Ottawa and Tampa Bay got.) Also, Hamilton ALREADY has a stadium (Copps),
unlike many other expansion francises which have to play in small rinks until
they can get a full-sized stadium built. (ie. initial capital outlay is
reduced.)

>>Having lived
>>in Niagara for all my life I can say that a team in Hamilton would not hurt
>>Detroit (4hrs. away), Toronto (1 hr of hell driving), or Buffalo (1.5hrs to one
>>of the worst facilities in hockey).  Try getting a ticket to a Toronto game!
>>It is nearly impossible, not to mention an expensive task.  I definitly don't
>>want to drive 4hrs to see a hockey game in Detroit on any regular schedule.
>>Heck, if you are going to use the proximity theory for an excuse, why don't
>>you mention that Montreal is only 7hrs away.  I drove 9hrs to see game 2 of
>>Montreal vs Boston last year.  I definitly want to drive 9hrs for each home
>>game in the regular season.
>>
>>Let us take a tally:
>>
>>	1) Toronto - can't get tickets, atleast 1hr of hell driving.
>>	2) Detroit - 4hrs, I think not!
>>	3) Ottawa - ooops, I live here and I even forget them!
>>	4) Montreal - same as above.
>>	5) Any other Canadian City - nope.
>>	6) Buffalo - just can't bring myself to go to a crappy facility
>>		     to see a team I can't stand.  Heck why not move
>>		     Buffalo to Hamilton if so many Hamiltonians are going
>>		     there?  In fact very few people from Hamilton make the
>>		     drive.
>>
>>I say let's move the Whalers from that GOD forsaken hockey hell to the
>>steal capital of Canada!
>>
>>By the way, I was a confirmed Hamilton season ticket holder when Tampa
>>received their team :(

>I do not forsee Hamilton doing any better over a long NHL run, than 
>Winnipeg.  Unless they had a winning team, they would not sell out
>75% of their home games.

What do you base this on? The Hamilton fans were ready to pack Copps
Colesium with season ticket holders. There are millions of people
in Ontario who want to watch hockey. Hamilton would probably do
better than Toronto in the long run, since Toronto fan support
is reduced thanks to baseball.