HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Inexperienced boaters
From: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:30:06 MDT
Reply-To: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Distribution: na
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1955ojINN4jh@gilligan.East.Sun.COM>, mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
|>
|>I just have a box that contains everything I need to launch
|>(drain plugs, kill cords, keys...) When that box is empty,
|>I walk around and check that all the pieces are in the right
|>place.
|>
|>The drawback is that immediately upon trailering, you must
|>remove all the plugs, cords, keys... and put them back in the
|>box. I find that having a set routine helps alot.
|>
I too have a set routine.  At home I take the cover off, check all vital
fluids, give the engine compartment a visual check, put the plug in, and
trim the drive up.
One Friday evening I decided to gas up the boat before a saturday morning
trip.  Since I was just going to get gas I didn't go through the whole
routine.  I just hitched the boat up and went to the store.  Well almost.
Something didn't feel right as I pulled out.  I stopped got out and found
a six foot gouge filled with aluminium shavings in my asphalt drive.  I had
forgotten to trim the drive up.
Moral:  having a routine helps me to get my boat ready and I depend on it.
But I learned that it is no substitute for thinking.

On a related note there has been much talk about experience and speed at the launch ramp.  Speaking as one who is still not real comfortable at the ramp.
Give us beginners some time and space.  It will actually go faster that way.
I find that most boaters prep or secure their boats away from the ramps.
What really bothers me is the knuckle-head who dosen't do a thing to his
boat until he is at the water's edge.  And then he takes his own sweet time.
Most beginners are entertaining, they are doing their best but things happen.  It is the other guy impressed with his own importance and his rights that
irritates me.
--
Hal Lynch
	Internet: Hal@cache.declab.usu.edu
	DECnet:   USU::HAL
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: knots and splices
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:59:55 GMT

Stefan Michalowski writes:

Francis,

	How about some ASCII artwork for your bowline alternative?
	(you weren't planning to do anything this weekend, anyway)

Not doing anything? Not sailing? You're kidding, I hope... But yes, I will
try for some artwork.
.


Not doing anything? Not sailing? You're kidding, I hope... But yes, I will
try for some artwork.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mike@ravel.udel.edu (Michael James Porter)
Subject: 22-26' Sport?
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:34:47 GMT

We've been leaning more towards buying a 22'-26' sport boat rather than a
cruiser/mid cabin type.  However, other than WellCraft Nova/Scarab,
and a few Liberators, I've not been able to find out very much about
what's available.

I believe I want the following:  22'-26', used, <$20K.  I would prefer
a single, possibly a big block.  We're not looking for truely high
speeds, probably 60 or so.  I would like a cabin large enough to sleep
two in, and we're willing to let the marina provide most of the rest of our 
comforts.  The boat would normally be used in the Chesapeake bay,
Delaware bay, and some short ocean runs along the coast.

StingRay nearly makes a boat in this class, but I would prefer something
a little larger than their 22.5', and can't afford the 26'.  A 241
Liberator might be what I'm after?  Anyone care to sell a 27' Fountain
for 20K?  Comments?

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: henry@convex.com (Lee Henry)
Subject: jib furling problem
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:18:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

I need some help with my Harken Jib Furling System.  This unit was on the
boat, a Catalina 25, when I purchased it over 2 years ago.  It was working
fine at that time.

Shortly after I bought the boat I had it moved to another lake.  After that
time I noticed that the furling gear would hang when the sail was being
unfurled.  Never had any problem rolling it up.  If I rolled it up slightly
and then quickly pulled on the sheet it would sometimes unroll a little
further.  Working at it in this method I could eventually get it unfurled.
If the wind was gusty a good gust would often get it all the way out.

So, I pulled out the installation instructions that the previous owner had
given to me.  I read about possible problems: jib halyard wrapping around
the headstay, jib halyard wrapping around the mast, foils riding on the
locking collar, foils too high and binding on the swage eye, salt or dirt
in the bearings, or furling line becoming snarled on the drum.  Two years ago
I ended up taking the unit apart to try to determine what was wrong.  I ended
up raising or lowing the foil height and the problem went away.

Recently I had the bottom painted and the mast was unstepped again and now
the problem has returned.  After playing with it for a while I ruled out
halyard wraps (I now put a lot of tension on the jib halyard before I furl
or unfurl the sail) and the furling line being tangled.  It appears that
whatever is binding is at the top.  I have checked the upper swivel and the
tack swivel and both spin freely.  I have noticed some scratches on the
upper swivel and sometimes it appears that it is not spinning correctly
when the hanging occurs.  It is difficult to tell if it is really getting
hung and I can't see what could have scratched the lower part of the swivel.

Yesterday I was playing with it again at the dock with no sail.  The genoa
is a 150% Aeroluff from North.  It has a luff tape that runs the length of
the luff with the exception of about 4-5' at the top and bottom so that
when reefing the middle of the sail will be drawn flat.  It also has a piece
of material that zips around the foil for the length of the luff.  When
there is no sail on the foil the drum and foils spin with no problem.  I then
tried to simulate headstay sag by pulling on the foil as I pulled the furling
line.  Something was now binding but it sounded like it was the headstay
binding inside the foils.  While I was playing I also tried adjusting the
foil height again.  When I raised it the binding appears to decrease.  I didn't
have time to go out and test it to see if it is alright now.

Anyone have any ideas what is going on or anything to try?
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: What's an appropriate boat for me?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 18:01:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.053255.4684@pixar.com> deering@pixar.com writes:
>So, I've recently learned how to sail a Lido 14 (my club's
>training boat), and am seriously hooked. Now I want my own boat:
>
>*  I'd like a used 12-18' trailerable sloop-rigged dinghy in the
>   $500-1500 range.
>
>*  I'd like to be able to take my wife and 2 small kids out in it
>   occasionally (eventually), but I'd also like to be able to
>   have some sailing fun in it (immediately). Not racing fun,
>   just more fun than in a Lido, which seems like a bit of a tub
>   (no offense, Lido owners!).
>
>*  And it should be somewhat forgiving (read "doesn't tip *too*
>   easily").
>
>There's a fair-sized reservoir a couple of miles away, and the
>San Francisco Bay (where I learned to sail) isn't much farther.
>

Tom,

My honest opinion: you cannot safely sail on SF Bay in the kind of
boat you describe, especially with small kids. Please don't try
it. The smallest boat that I would recommend is a Cal20. You can
probably buy one for $1500, but, with a full keel, it won't be
trailerable.

Stefan
From: tomm@voodoo.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: "Jiffy" reefing
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:51:37 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <1992Sep10.003447.5224@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen) writes:

>In <1992Sep9.215730.24186@morrow.stanford.edu>
>francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>>My Freedom 21 has built-in one-lead jiffy reefing on each of two
>>reef points, and its not as practical as it should be. One problem
> [text ommited]
>>Francis Muir

>IMHO the jiffy reefing with one line is in most cases useles. Why to make
>a simple thing more complicated than necessary and why do someone want to
>loose the advantage of separately controlling the leach and luff tension.
 [text ommited]
>- Lauri Tarkkonen

The reason, at least with the Freedom 21, is to make the boat easily
singlehanded.  All lines, including the spinnaker lines, lead to the
cockpit.  In addition, the reefing lines, halyards, spinnaker pole
centering lines, and spinnaker clew lines all lead through a stop block
(one 4-stop block on each side of the cabin roof) which is situated
in front of a winch.  Thus, any of the 8 lines can be led around a
winch for extra purchase.  The loads are small enough in a boat this
size that losses due to friction are not going to be a major problem.
In my opinion, the layout of the control lines on the Freedom 21 are
very close to optimal for my use, which is mostly singlehanding.  I
need go forward only to drag the mainsail down when its time to go
in, and I think I can solve that by cleaning and lubing the mast track
and sail slides.

-- 
Tom Mackey       (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services         ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,     P.O. Box 24346,     Seattle, WA     98124-0346
From: davea@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Dave Angelini)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:57:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Changing a name
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.boats

 

   Try sailing backwards over your wake. This is suppose to stop the bad 
    
luck.
From: hchan@well.sf.ca.us (Hoover Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: What's an appropriate boat for me?
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:02:04 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

In article <1992Sep14.180101.4646@leland.Stanford.EDU> stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski) writes:
>In article <1992Sep13.053255.4684@pixar.com> deering@pixar.com writes:
>>So, I've recently learned how to sail a Lido 14 (my club's
>>training boat), and am seriously hooked. Now I want my own boat:
>>
>>*  I'd like a used 12-18' trailerable sloop-rigged dinghy in the
>>   $500-1500 range.
>>
>>*  I'd like to be able to take my wife and 2 small kids out in it
>>   occasionally (eventually), but I'd also like to be able to
>>   have some sailing fun in it (immediately). Not racing fun,
>>   just more fun than in a Lido, which seems like a bit of a tub
>>   (no offense, Lido owners!).
>>
>>*  And it should be somewhat forgiving (read "doesn't tip *too*
>>   easily").
>>
>>There's a fair-sized reservoir a couple of miles away, and the
>>San Francisco Bay (where I learned to sail) isn't much farther.
>>
>
>Tom,
>
>My honest opinion: you cannot safely sail on SF Bay in the kind of
>boat you describe, especially with small kids. Please don't try
>it. The smallest boat that I would recommend is a Cal20. You can
>probably buy one for $1500, but, with a full keel, it won't be
>trailerable.
>
>Stefan

I was thinking about replying to the original posting but didn't think
I could do justice to it since the poster was asking for a difficult
combination of features (good for family on SF Bay _and_ handles like
a performance dinghy).

I'd second the recommendation for a Cal 20. It has a solid keel and is
very forgiving of mistakes. It's stable enough for sailing on San
Francisco Bay (I sail mine out of the SF Marina). At the same time,
because of its weight and rudder/keel, the boat handle a lot like a
dinghy. It can turn on a dime.

I chose a Cal 20 for several reasons. The first is that it is affordable.
You can get a decent one for $1500 but expect to pay more if you're looking
for one that is race rigged (faired keel, adjustable backstay/forestay,
improved deck arrangement) (expect maybe $2.5K-$5K).

The Cal 20 _is_ trailerable, but it is borderline trailerable. I know 
someone who races his boat in SF Bay and trailers it regularly from
Sebastopol.


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------
Hoover Chan - hchan@well.sf.ca.us
              {apple,ucbvax,pacbell,hplabs}!well!hchan
              hchan%well.sf.ca.us@cunyvm.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: steph@cs.uchicago.edu (Stephen Wilson Bailey)
Subject: Re: Electronics legal on racing dinghies?
Organization: University of Chicago Computer Science
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:16:08 GMT

The 1988 US Women's Olympic entry in the 470 class had a KVH Sailcomp
aboard.

Certainly small fluxgates compasses could be cheap enough (cheaper
than comparable quality cards) not to elevate the cost of boats which
already have compasses, and I don't think the advantage they give is
so large it should be denied to dingy racers that are already allowed
compasses.

On the other hand, other instruments on dingies seem silly to me.

Steph
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: STU@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: 8D ?  (wuz 2 batteries -- how?)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:17:17 GMT

>
>Please tell me how an 8D compares to the typical sized deep cycle
>batteries, "group 24" and "group 27".  I'd like to know physical
>size, weight, amps.
 
The 8D I use is rated at 1100 cold cranking amps - not terribly meaningful
since I can't crank 1100 of anything.  It has a 200 amp hour rating - a
more meaningful number.
 
According to the Boat US conversion chart, a 1100 cold cranking amp
rating - relates to a 1300 marine cranking amp rating.  As a net result,
the Shearwater that used to crank for about 5 seconds before starting,
now starts on the first compression stroke of the first cylinder.
 
The 8D is about 3 times the weight (150#) and 4 times the size of a
"normal" group 25 battery - 11" w x 21" long by 10" high (roughly).
 
It is the largest object I can manhandle around the boat myself!
 
In the event of a failure, an 8D makes an excellent emergency anchor :-).
 
If you use a sealed gel-cell version it is about $425 vs a charge of
about $125 for a regular lead-acid.  The regular 8Ds last about 5 years
in marine service - the gel-cells are warrantied for 5 years and never
seem to fail.
/ Stu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: heller@heller.b11.ingr.com (Anne A. Heller)
Subject: Need advice on small used runabout power boats
Keywords: Bayliner Capri 1750
Organization: Intergraph Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:15:56 GMT


My husband and I are in the market for a small used runabout for skiing and
exploring on a lake.  The lake in question is Wheeler Lake, part of the
Tennessee River reservoir system in Alabama.

We found a boat that we are interested in - a 1987 Bayliner 1750 Capri (~17 foot)
with a Ford 2.3 liter I/O engine.  The boat is attractive, it seemed to be
well cared for; it really looks like it would suit our purposes.  

I had seen a few posts earlier concerning the integrity of Bayliner boats.
I did notice that this boat's fuel tank was metal and mounted under the floor
forward of the engine.  I remember a post indicating if the gas tank in these 
boats ever leaks, the only way to get at the tank is major fiberglass surgery.  
How likely would such a problem be?  I also remember hearing that Bayliners are
sometimes underpowered.  I am not certain of the weight of this boat.  Does a
2.3L sound reasonable for a 17' boat?

What would be a reasonable offer for this boat in good condition?

Are there any other caveats particular to Bayliner boats?  Does anyone have
opinions on SeaRay or Chapparal boats?

Thanks for your advice,

-Anne
--
Anne Heller / heller@heller.b11.ingr.com  -or-  ..!uunet!ingr!b11!heller!heller
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: I/O Versus Outboard
From: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:40:39 MDT
Reply-To: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University

In article <19551mINN9od@seven-up.East.Sun.COM>, cnader@capecod.East.Sun.COM writes:
|>
|>I am in the process of buying a boat in the 20 - 23 foot range and would like
|>some information on any drawbacks that readers are aware of with inboard/outboard
|>engines.

If you find an OMC outdrive make sure it is a Cobra model.  The older pre
Cobra models had problems with the gimbel bearings.

|>For the past 20 years, our family boat has had the same 100 hp O/B Evinrude engine
|>pushing it thru all kinds of seas off of Cape Cod with very few problems. In fact,
|>it seems as if the engine gets better gas mileage today than it did 20 years
|>ago. Outboards ARE durable!
|>
|>The boats I am interested in today generally have I/O engines, but I have read 
|>a number or articles about people having to replace their I/Os after 4 or five
|>years. I know that outboards are generally more sturdy and have better corrosion
|>protection, but only getting 5 years out of an I/O seems hard to beleive.

I would think that any family that can get 20 years out of an outboard
should do very well with an I/O.

|>Any info or experience about the (potential) downside to I/Os????
|>
|>Also, any advice for a person buying a used boat (4 years old) with an I/O?? I
|>am trying to obtain a boat that was only used in fresh water, but some times its
|>hard to make the match between the right boat and the right kind of past usage.

Talk to local people who use their boats as you intend to use yours.  If you
find a boat you like by all means take it out for a trial.  If possible
use it like you would if it were yours.

--
Hal Lynch
	Internet: Hal@cache.declab.usu.edu
	DECnet:   USU::HAL
From: wes@ian.stx.com (John S.)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Hobie 16 masts
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:50:17 GMT
Organization: STX, Lanham Maryland

In article <BOWERS.92Sep2100143@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov> bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:
>In article <1SEP199214173185@zeus.tamu.edu> wkl5819@zeus.tamu.edu (LEVERICH, WILLIAM KENT) writes:
>
>>It's my understanding that when a Hobie capsizes, the water tight mast should
>>float.  The club I'm in has two Hobie 16s and a Hobie 14.  The masts on all of
>>them leak.  Every time one of the boats capsizes, it inevitably turtles.
>>Unless you have a lot of extra weight, unturtling the boat is a real bitch.
>>If you can find a way to keep your mast watertight, I would strongly recommend
>>doing so.
>
>It's actually pretty easy.  I do it in about 2 hours every other year.
>I did it before the beginning of this season.  It's simple.  you drill
>out all the pop rivets, remove all the fittings, clean off all the old
>silicone rubber, smear new silicone on, re attach everyting.  The
>really hard one is the Comp-Tip (the mast upper section is fiberglass
>to reduce the possibility of electrocution due to overhead wires in
>launch areas, it works too).  I've never removed my Comp-Tip, but I
>simply remove all the hardware, smear them with silicone and reinstall
>all the hardware.  Then a smear a thing bead around where the two
>extrusions meet and I'm done.
>
>It should be noted that anytime you need to do this with your rudder
>gudgeons, you should probably need to do this for your mast.  IMHO.
>
>--
>"But the fact that a 1938 touring bodied Alfa Romeo I once had is
>worth $1 million sometimes bothers the hell out of me.  It's a
>personal problem."                                     -Phil Hill
>Iaido   Takamine   Hobie   Rossignol   Alfa Romeo  Ducati (DOD #900)

Take it from someone who's had to do Comp-Tip conversions for a
dealership, you don't wanna mess with it. If the tip was installed
correctly, it should never leak. In addition to a huge plug of 3M 5200
sealant and a very tight fitting 4" plug of foam, the tip itself is
'glued' to the inside of the mast for a full 6" of it's length using
'Bondo'. If you really suspect a leak at the tip, I'd say take it to
the dealer and raise holy hell. As for sealing the rest of the mast, it
might be a good idea to leave the base un-sealed. The only way water'll
get in that way is if the boat turns turtle, which means there's
probably water in there already (most likely coming from elsewhere).
Leaving it open leaves an escape for the water when you right the boat.

                                                                             \
==============================================================================>
         ______                 ____________________                         /
           /  __   _  _  _  _  /__   _  _  ___  __   _  _  ___  __   __  
       ___/  /_/ _/--/ _/\_/  ___/ _/--/ _/_- _/-' _/--/ _/_- _/-<,_/__>

         wes@ian.stx.com     (John Shepherd)    Hughes STX, Lanham, MD
From: roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Electronics legal on racing dinghies?
Date: 6 Sep 92 19:44:47 GMT
Organization: Public Health Research Institute (New York)

guido@blink.att.com (Guido Bertocci) writes:
> FD class rules prohibit electronics except for watches.  We went through
> this issue about 4 years ago where someone wanted to use a Sailcomp.
> It ultimately was ruled illegal.  The concern is indeed cost. 

	Class rules appear to be strange and bizarre things.  Quoting from
the 1991-92 International J/24 Class Rules:

	4.1.3: At least one fixed marine type compass of magnetic card
	or digital readout type capable only of instantaneous readout.
	(Compasses capable of displaying stored headings and/or
	performing calculations for storage of tactical information
	shall be not allowed.)

	At a recent measurement seminar led by the chairman of the US J/24
technical committee (at which a bunch of folks, including myself, were
qualified as class measurers), the question of Sailcomps came up,
specifically the model with the 4 buttons which remembers what heading you
were on the last time you were on this tack and tells you if you are headed
or lifted.  After some specific questioning, it was unambigiously explained
that Sailcomps are legal, regardless of rule 4.1.3.  When asked how 4.1.3
could possibly be interpreted so as to make Sailcomps legal, the explanation
was along the lines of "it doesn't actually display a stored heading, it
displays the current heading and the difference between that and a stored
heading".

	It was also asked that if the reason for outlawing Sailcomps was
cost, why was it illegal to install a $600 Sailcomp, but perfectly legal to
buy a brand new $4,000 suit of sails for every regatta?  I don't believe
there was ever a satisfactory answer to that.
-- 
roy@wombat.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016, USA
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
Newsgroups: rec.boats