HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: disinformation by carasso
Date: 1 Jan 93 03:05:33 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

hi everybody!
have you ever noticed that _R_oger _D_avid _C_arasso (_R_ajgopalan _D_abulkhers
_C_hemanoor, inventer alt.wanted.moslem.women, alt.wanted.moslem.men,
alt.wanted.moslem.gay) has posted some articles giving statements about certain
arab leaders about what they think about the state of israel.

i would like to ask carasso, why did you post statements you try to show are
the current mindset of the arab leaders, when they were made at least 10 years
ago by almost all of them? do statements made 10 years ago by a person, any
person, necessarily reflect his or her opinions today? do you know what you are
engaging in? it's called disinformation. you are giving statements that have
some elements of truth, but not the whole truth. hey everybody! i ate spinace!
buzz! last time i ate that stuff was 3 years ago. a mild example of what you
were doing. in laymen's term carasso, you were lying through your teeth. each
and everyone of those arab leaders have modified there position (for better or
for worse, that is not the issue) regarding
occupied palestine (your israel) and you know it, and you know that i know it
too. be smart carasso, assad is willing to give concessions to israel, arafat
has modified his position as well. even the "terrorist" HAMAS organization,
has changed its stance in the few years that it has existed.

so mr. carasso, find some contemporary information and then use your
psychobabble.

sincerely

zafar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: An Article
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:53:57 GMT


Some of the obvious bias in this article can be witnessed by such
statements as "So,  despite  strident  calls for  arms shipments to be
sent to  the Bosnian  Muslims, despite the appeals for a 'jihad', no
Arab leader ventures close to 
^^^^^^^                                        ^^^^
Sarajevo."

In any case, while the writer of the article obviously had the intention
to denigrate Muslims, Arabs, etc. he or she is not correct in that, at
least, the Iranian foreign minister (while not an Arab per se) made a
trip to the area not so long ago. In the recent issue of Iran Times
there is an article about Iranian donations amounting to about $1
million which were collected to pay for relief supplies. The article
also mentions that a number of wounded Bosnians are being treated in
hospitals in Tehran at government expense.

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Common Sense or Hysteria?
Date: 22 Dec 1992 20:58:21 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



"Lebanon is resposible for the 418 deportees because they
are now on a Lebanese soil."

Ask where these deportees came from.  If Israel takes all
Palestinians and put them in Lebanon or elsewhere, don't
ever dare to blame Israel for such an action because these
Palestinians are no longer on an Israeli soil.

What a logic?
-- 
                  ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________
                 (______   _  |   _  |_
_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: What is HAMAS
From: A.Qadir@massey.ac.nz (A. Qadir)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 21:21:07 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
Summary: What is HAMAS
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

Assalamu Alaikum,
Can any body give me some detail about "HAMAS". I have heard this name
for the first time. Are they Shi'a or Duruz?.
regards
Altaf
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:5941 soc.culture.misc:484 soc.misc:1091 alt.sex:40279
From: texx@ossi.com ("Texx")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.misc,soc.misc,alt.sex
Subject: Re: Ear Rings
Date: 24 Dec 1992 14:31:41 -0800
Organization: Open Systems Solutions Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cheops.ossi.com

morten@oase.kemi.aau.dk (Morten Kjeldgaard) writes:

>I have thought about it, too. Probably the motivation is different between
>the different groups. I can think of a plausible reason for the age-old
>tradition of *seamen* wearing earrings: since this profession was very risky,
>and death could come in an instant, you always had your token or goldpiece
>to cross over into the land of eternity. 


In some cases jewelery was worn to pay the costs of a funeral if the person
was killed.

I think the real reeason is that there were dozens of reasons.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-texx

texx@ossi.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas)
Subject: Re: The vanquished always want to imitate the victor (Ibn Khaldun)
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 05:57:14 GMT

In article <Dec.22.15.11.44.1992.10738@pilot.njin.net> hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey) writes:
>In article <1h7fvsINNldr@function.mps.ohio-state.edu> hermi@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Lotfi Hermi) writes:
>
>> [22 ] The vanquished always want to imitate the victor
>> in his distinctive mark(s), his dress, his occupa-
>> tion, and all his other conditions and customs.
>
>Lotfi, do us a favor.  
[stuff deleted]
>
>And explain to us how and why it's necessary for everyone to learn
>Arabic to really understand the Koran. And why the translation of
>the Koran is not the Koran, only the Arabic version can be called
>the Koran.

i gave my explanation about that in a previous araticle, at least somewhat.
i might add that we muslims do not limit ourselves to the quran.
we believe that there are other books, like the injil, taurat, suhuf-e-
ibrahima, and zaboor. in order for all of these books to be considered
what they are, they must be in their original languages. so the book that
is now known as the torah, is NOT the taurat. we muslim will not consider 
it as divine until it is unchanged (which it is not) and it is written in
the language that it was originally revealed (definitely not). so that book
known as the bible is not considered holy by us either, it is a far cry
from what we want to see as injil. some of us even wish the injil was
here today. oh well enough of that.

zafar
>
>-- 
>
>	mark	
>
>   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
>   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey    


Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:5828 soc.culture.turkish:13498 soc.culture.iranian:11115
From: revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Killing settlers
Date: 31 Dec 92 00:18:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.42946
Followup-To: soc.culture.arabic

<C032ur.3yo@newsflash.concordia.ca> ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira):

>IRM in the worst case believes in killing  Israelis as a means of
>fighting against occupiers who happen to be Jews. It does not call for the
>killing of any Jews or all Jews. 

	This is false.  The Hamas Covenant specifically refers to
	"Jews".

>It sees all settlers as targets because
>they are in their view aggressors who are taking their lands.
>I do not agree with them in killing UNARMED civilians (including settlers)
>but any armed Israeli in the occupied territory should be a fair target


	An unarmed woman plowing a field should not
	be fair game, but if her concern about
	Hamas attacks on settlers causes her to
	carry a weapon in self-defense,
	then she's fair game.  Wonderful.

-- 
Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)
From: malek@pi.titech.ac.jp (Zidouri Abdelmalek 03/95)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: What is  H a m a s  ??
Date: 31 Dec 92 07:22:40 GMT
	<1992Dec31.013620.7505@trl.oz.au>
Organization: Tokyo Institute of Tech., Precision and Intelligence Lab., Japan

>>>>> On 31 Dec 92 01:36:20 GMT, faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) said:

Aziz> In article <1ht9obINN3s6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza  Salah) writes:
[....]

Aziz> |> The most dangerous thing is to talk about something that you
Aziz> |> don't know about.

Aziz> Well then you are either a lier or those Muslims who have told me that 
Aziz> is what the Qur'an said are liers.

Now when you are put into the corner Mr HONEST that does NOT hide behind
any religion you're trying to hide behind the Muslims who told you....
Get your facts straight and when YOU FEEL LIKE LYING do it in politics
or bring references like those of carrasso ( 1482 Dec. 3rd at 3:01 radio
Turing news ) or any other reference *but* not the QURAN please.
YOU INVENTED THE VERSE "Kill those who try to destroy your faith" 
then you have to absorbe it back and apologize in public.
[...]
Aziz> You do not know me. The bottom of my shoe is more honest and humane than you

You are very modest Mr Faris. :-) But there is one problem if your 
shoes are honest and HUMANE then the one who uses these shoes must
be a MONSTER AND UNHUMAN by stepping "in" humane shoes.

Aziz> are!. You hide behind Islam, I do not hide behind any religion.
[...]
Aziz>    . Why not go back to the M.E. and become a sheppard then.
Aziz> A.Faris

 You'd better take the above advice from Hamza.
Malek.
--
 Malek.
 
 "We cooperate in what we agree on, and forgive each other for that
  in which we disagree." Hassan El Banna.
From: bouguett@kibblesnbits.cs.colorado.edu (Athman Bouguettaya)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Testing
Date: 25 Dec 1992 11:10:55 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



Please ignore.

-Athman
From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: What is HAMAS
Date: 30 Dec 1992 15:18:04 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad) says:

>In article <1992Dec29.160417.12173@cbfsb.cb.att.com> mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar) writes:
>>
>>  Hamas stands for "Harakat al Muqawamat il Islamiyyah", which means, the
>>Islamic resistance movement. It was founded by Sheikh Ahmad Yassin three
>>or four years ago. It represents the Muslim Bretheren in Palestine. The
>>founder is sunni. The organization is an Islamic organization whose aims
>>include providing an Islamic support organization for Palestinians, resisting
>>Israeli occupation, the liberation of all of Palestine and the establishment
>>of an Islamic state.
>
>It is nice to know the Muslim Bretheren support the killing of an unarmed
>hostage without convicting him of any particular crime, *and* claim it is
>Islamic!

Stop your lies about Islam and muslims.  I would like you to give me
where in a Quran it says what Hamas is doing is wrong.

You're either one of these two , a jew or a christian who hates Islam and
muslims -or- some idiot who just doesn't know what he is talking about.

If these two don't fit your description, prove otherwise.  

I would like you once to respond to a jew post, or is it really these
muslims who you are after. huh?
 
>
>Tamer Abdelgawad
>
>P.S.  Happy holidays everyone :-)

Muslims don't have holdiays at this time of the year.
However, it is ok if you're christian to say it for non-muslims.  

-- 
                  ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________
                 (______   _  |   _  |_
_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: kal@mars.dgrc.doc.ca (ali baba)
Subject: Peace
Reply-To: kal@mars.dgrc.doc.ca
Organization: Communication Research Centre
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 21:40:54 GMT

To the arabs & the jews, if we do not negotiate a just peace now, the extremist on both sides will win and more innocent people will be lost. Let us try to stop the hatered and the bloodshed so our children can have a more peacful life than the one we had. Let us work for our "akhira". 

To the people that i sent strong worded letters in response to their letters, I wish our next letters will be more constructive and civilized.

have a nice holidays...

aslam alikum
shalom
peace from the country of freedom and justice...CANADA.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso)
Subject: Re: Hamas
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 00:19:57 GMT

cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza NAZI Salah) writes:
>
>>Somehow I can't swallow it.  Do you have evidence that Nissim Toledano
>>did kill "not only Palestinian men, but also women and kids"?
>
>Don't play smart by asking individual evidences!  Be general in your
>perspective.  As said in Arabic,"The one who lives with a group of people 40
>days, become part of them."  What applies to the border guard who kills
>kids, apply to any other border guard.

By the same reasoning Israel is completely justified and *should*
expel those 400 Palestinians, for living with, and generally
supporting, Hamas, which kills Israelis.  After all "Be general in
your perspective".  If Hamas kills a policeman, murder charges should
be brought up on all Hamas supporters.  Expulsion for upto 2 years
seems gentle by comparison.

now whose being illogical, you racist fuck.


carasso.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: All Arabs are guilty
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
	<1992Dec27.043847.11391@nysernet.org>
	<1992Dec27.173957.4658@informix.com>
	<BzxrCA.DKF@newsflash.concordia.ca> <1hll0aINNjom@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
	<1992Dec28.153944.4573@nysernet.org>
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:16:57

In article <1992Dec28.153944.4573@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>   There are millions of square miles of Arab territory outside Eretz
>   Yisrael, dwarfing the miniscule size of Israel (@8,000 sq miles) many
>   times over.  There is no need for Arabs to immigrate to Israel, unless
>   they want to drive the Jews out, while there is plenty of room in
>   Israel to accomodate any Jew who wants to return to his or her
>   homeland, without in any way harming any of the Arabs who live there
>   now.

This is racist propaganda.  The clear conceptual asymmetry of "Arabs
can only want to kick Jews out, while Jews can only want to live with
Arabs" is racist nonsense.

>   Of course.  The Israelis have always wanted to live together with the
>   Arabs;  it has been the Arabs who have wanted to kick the Jews out of
>   their homeland.

This is more racist propaganda.  Part of the design of the Zionist
settlements in Palestine was segregation from the Arabs, enforced by
the funding agencies.  Even when Jewish-Arab integration and
cooperation was working, segregation was forced on the Jewish settlers
by the Zionist authorities.  The Jews were, for example, not allowed
to hire Arab laborers, share Arab water supplies, and so on.  Any that
were found doing so were censured by the Zionist authorities.  This
belies your propaganda.
--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Subject: Re: Killing settlers
Organization: ECE - Concordia University
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:18:33 GMT

In article <42946@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans) writes:
>	This is false.  The Hamas Covenant specifically refers to
>	"Jews".
I know, but it should not be interpreted the way it was.. Hamas is
good at harming its own image, I can tell you this much.
>
>	An unarmed woman plowing a field should not
>	be fair game, but if her concern about
>	Hamas attacks on settlers causes her to
>	carry a weapon in self-defense,
>	then she's fair game.  Wonderful.

You do not get the point, they see that woman as an intruder that is
on stolen property  so if you have an armed woman in your land who
is engaging in plowing your field, what do you do?
You have to acknowledge that the settlers in the west bank Gaza and
most of the enlarged suburbs of Jerusalem are robbing land from the
Palestinians with the help of the Israeli government.
>
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Killing settlers
Date: 3 Jan 93 08:00:29 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1993Jan1.220624.8924@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>
>Not half as good as it is at killing innocent people.
 
And not *nearly* as ruthless and effective as the IDF are at
murdering, torturing, and controlling innocent Palestinians
in the Occupied Territories, Alan.

Anisa

	"We just hope that the Israelis will reciprocate and will
	not continue to create such painful and aggrevating conditions
	on the ground that need to further hostilities and feed the
	cycle of violence.  The occupation is an abnormal, distorting
	condition.  It has to come to an end.  And I think only then
	will you see an end to violence."
						Hanan Ashwari
				Interview on ABC World News/12-16-92
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: ephg8398@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Elizabeth P Hess)
Subject: Re: JORDAN IS THE PALESTINIAN STATE
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 06:20:18 GMT

carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso) writes:
What a smart logic you have Mr. Carasso
Your facts are contradicting each others.
>JORDAN IS THE PALESTINIAN STATE.

>FACTS:

>1. Jordan is in Palestine.
Be realistic
>2. All Jordanians are, by geographic definition, "Palestinians."

Are you saying that all Jordanians have the right to Palestines..
I agreed with you if you mean that.
>3. Over Half of Jordan's Cabinet ministers are Palestinian.

You just said all Jordanians are Palestinians in Fact #2.
Would you tell me if the other non-palestinians are from 
other parts of the world?!
>4. Over half of Jordan's population is Palestinian, 3/4th in Amman.
You are contradicting yourself in facts 1 and 2.
>5. "What you call Jordan is actually Palestine."
>		--Yasir Arafat,
>		  in an interview with Oriana Fallaci, 1970

This doesn't mean that he is giving up the real Palestine, if
Arafat means what you understand, then what is your problem with
him. He seems a man who agrees with your magic vision...
>6. "The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan."
>		--King Hussein,
>		  1981


What do you understad from the fact that Palestine is Jordan,
the arabs wants their Jordan 'Palestine' back from Israel.

Educate yourself more Carasso, You may come up with a solution
to the Middle East conflict by enlighting us with more of your
facts. This applied to all the facts you have claims in this
newsgroup.

:wq

>                  ___________________ carasso@turing.org _____________
>                 |     _   _  _  __ __ __
>_____ R O G E R  |___ |-| |  |-| \_ \_ \_\   
>                                  _\ _\
From: minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: 7642
Date: 28 Dec 92 18:48:29 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

the inside debate in israel is what is the definition of a jew. the question 
goes like this, the religious community in israel says that a jew is the one
that believes in the religion of judaism and practices it (or at least puts
an effort in doing so). however the common definition of it is anyone who is
a descendant of abraham through israel.
the debate is like this, the palestinians say that they are also jews because
they fit the common definition of what a jew is. so they want rights to the 
land of israel just like those invaders from europe have rights to that land.
they argue, so what if they are not believers in the religion? the philosophy
of zionism did not specify jews as a religious community but as a racial 
community. if they are not jews then the invaders from europe definitely are not
either. the indigenous people are jews who, some converted to christianity and
some coverted to islam, and some remained jews.
if the religious definition is to be accepted, then more than 75% of israel
would lose rights to the land. religious jews are definitely a minority in that
country.
if this debate continues in the direction it is going it is going to cause a
lot of trouble in israel because the palestinians are not bani ismail (for the
most part) but they are more bani israil. i picture israel becoming more
hypocritical in the future, the israeli government will know that on the
question of race it will have no choice but to allow palestinians citizenship
but it will not do so and will be more cruel in its persecution of those
people. 
if the palestinians want to gain more legitimacy for there struggle against
persecution they must demand citizenship to israel. the people who are in
the occupied lands (WB, gaza/judeah samaria/ whatever label you want) must
also demand citizenship to israel, they are being subject to israeli taxes,
and we all no that taxation without representation is tyranny. even our
"barbarous" islamic law gives representation to dhimmAt-ullah.

any thoughts? questions?

zafar minhas
From: ahmad@ra.cs.umb.edu (Ahmad Hashem)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Hamas
Date: 1 Jan 93 20:39:17 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

In article <1i0epvINN6a4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
>
>Where in quran or in hadith hamas violates the basic rules of justice.

Please read the following carefully because I think we are going in
circles here.  To say the least, Hamas's attacking Jewish *kids* violates 
the basic rules of justice.  I mentioned previously Abu Bakr's commandments 
to his army.  You said those do not apply when Muslims are weak.  But 
you failed to quote the verse or hadith that when Muslims are weak they
could kill (Jewish) kids; i.e., that when Muslims are weak they do not have
to follow Abu Bakr's commandments.

>Do the peace negotiations discuss making treaties for a specific period, 
>and is there a balance b/w jews and palestinians?  Did Sulh Al Hodibiah
>forbid muslims from returning to Macca?  Did it give only the permission
>for the Qurishes to be armed but not muslims? 

Your point about the Palestinians being weak now does not stand.  The fact
that Muslims made a SulH (peace treaty) when they were strong does not make
it unIslamic for them to make one when they are weak.  After all, the Quranic
verse about peace "If the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline
towards peace, and trust in God" (8:61) does not really qualify things.  I 
don't see why I have to accept, from an Islamic point of view, your divisions
of when Muslims are weak vs when they are strong.

As to the "specific period of time", I'd be willing, for the sake of argument,
to comrpmise on this one; i.e., would YOU accept making a peace treaty with 
Israel for, say, 50 years?  You seem to reject the whole idea of talking 
with them to begin with.  Did not the prophet (pbuh) talk with his enemies?
Did he arrive at SulH al-Hudaibiah without negotiating with them?  Then why 
do you reject the whole idea of negotiations?

>other sarcastic and silly answers were deleted.

It is up to you to think they are "silly", but I apologize if they appeared
sarcastic, because I did not intend them this way.

>It depends on how he causes it to break.  If he punches you on the face,
>and caused it to break.  Don't do Qisas, go and kiss him on the cheek
>and tell him thank you.

Did you look up "ad hominem" in the dictionary yet? :-)

Your answer has absolutely nothing to do with my question: I asked whether
I'd be justifed in punching any *other* person from the same group in
retaliation.  Look, Hamza, if the kid of an Arab is killed by Israelis, the
desire of the father to revenge for his kid's death might make him take his
weapon and kill some innocent Jewish kid in return.  He might feel better 
this way.  He might call what he did heroism.  But please, don't call it
Islamic.  Don't call it Jihad.  Call it revenge.

Best Ahmad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic