HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eu507dac@pts.mot.com (DOUG CHRISTENSEN X3915 P6818)
Subject: Re: fwd handling
Reply-To: eu507dac@pts.mot.com
Organization: Paging and Wireless Data Group
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:38:59 GMT

In article GGK@news.cso.uiuc.edu, jleung@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (A St. Xavier alum) writes:
>Given all this current hooplah over the handling of various fwd cars
>(Subaru Legacy, Acura Integra, Honda Civic, VW Sirrocco), I feel
>compelled to ask a question that has been bugging me for some time....
>
>My question is this:  How do I drive this car in a corner?
>What does 1) stamping the brakes 2) backing off the throttle 3) giving it
>more throttle 4) Other things    do when i am taking a fast corner?
>thanks.
>..
>
Most cars are designed to "push", that is understeer, in the corners, being
that is usually a safer, more predictable condition in street use.  You'll
probably notice that if you accelerate in a corner, the car will tend to
drive straight or "push" out of the corner.  But, if you then let off the gas
or add brakes, the car will then transfar weight from the rear to the front
wheels.  This reduces traction on the rear tires and the rear will tend
to break loose (trailing throttle oversteer (try this in a Porsche 911 [in
a large empty parking lot, please])).

I would suggest that you try to make sure the you are applying throttle in
corners.  Go in slow, accelerate out.  Apply brakes in a straight line.  Try
not to upset the car with sudden braking or hard accelerating in the corners
(Remember weight transfer).

You will find with time and experience that you can reduce the push out of
a corner by lightly letting off the gas which causes the tail to step out
slightly (throttle modulation).  Please don't try this on the street. 
(I have to say that).  You need to practice this though. A snow filled
parking lot is where i cut my teeth.

When things get bad...  Keep this in the back of your mind.  If the car
gets away from you, spin wise, its direction of travel will generally arc
in the direction of the spin.  If you lock the tires (brake hard), its
direction will become ballistic (a straight line).  This may be a usable
alternative as you can figure where the car is going and you become a 
predictable target for other cars.

I highly suggest taking a highway safty or race driving school.  They teach all
this and you don't need to worry about the police.

Enjoy,

Doug Christensen    SCCA SSB Scirocco 16V
doug_christensen@pts.mot.com

     _____
   _/_|__|\__
  | _ |61| _ \
 <-(_)----(_)-^       "When I'm racing, I'm alive.  Everthing else
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    is just waiting."  Steve McQueen, Le Mans.
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Rotary vs. Piston Engines
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:59:45 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <antkasx.720933737@gsusgi1.gsu.edu> antkasx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Ken A. Sturrock) writes:
>
>As I'm really ignorant about pistons:
>How does the piston's movement in a piston engine prevent oil from
>burning in the combustion chamber?
>
     It doesn't.  Oil leaks past the seal rings a bit.. and also
     thru the valve guides.  I've seen a lot more "boing-boing"
     smokers than rotaries on the freeways around here.



Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: klui@corp.hp.com (Kenneth K.F. Lui)
Subject: Re: Fast Japanese Sports Cars
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:24:51 GMT

In article <yogi.722501621@coombs> yogi@coombs.anu.edu.au (Michael Hanslip) writes:
[re: 1993 RX-7]
>                                                        As for the styling, 
>I think it looks a lot better than the last one. It is not really a rip-
>off of anything else and from 1000m away you can still identify this. What 
>is the car too small for? I thought it was about right on first exposure and the
>car has grown on me with subsequent months.

Personally, I like how the new RX looks from the front, but the
back's got to go.  The R1 spoiler makes it look a little better
but not much.  Actually, now that I think about it, its profile
looks the best of all, with the headlights popped up, and the
rear spoiler.

The Mk2 RX-7s look a lot like Porsche 944s.  Personally, I prefer
Mk2 RXes vs. Mk3s because Mk2s look good from any angle.

[re: Mk3 Z]
>I think that if you remember back to when the car first came out, you will 
>realize what a sensation it was.

I like the new Z, too; but a lot of new generation autos these
days have gained extra poundage because of added creature
comforts or whatnot.  The new Z has gotten its fair share of
gaining a few pounds here and there.  Maybe this is the reason
why the Mk3 RX-7s are getting so much attention these days.


What I really hate today are most the current sedans.  They all
look more or less alike.


Ken
#include <disclaimer>  My opinions do not reflect those of my employer
-- 
Kenneth K.F. Lui, klui@corp.hp.com                  3000 Hanover Street MS20BJ
Corporate Administrative Information Systems        Palo Alto, CA  94304   USA
Core Application Technologies                1(415)857-3230 Fax 1(415)852-8026
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: The Cure to Rattles in the Car
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 20:34:16 GMT

I was discussing the causes and cures of auto rattles and squeaks
with a classmate.

It occurred to me that the major cause of such things is the dash
board and plethora of load-grade plastics that are used in the dash.
Cars like the BMW and similar German emblems of engineering excellence
use either high-grade rigid plastics or rigid metal in their dashs,
and these are screwed in tight.  The plastic pieces in the econoboxes are
often just snapped in, and the connection sometimes becomes loosened
when the car goes over bumps.

I've finally figured out where that extra $5000 premium (for German
cars) goes.

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: djm48887@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dan Moisson)
Subject: Question about buying American?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:25:24 GMT

I have a question about buying American cars.  I am sure if we all
could find the perfect vehicle for us that was produced by
an American car manufacturer, we would.  Like, helping our
country out if possible.  Therefore, knowing the situation
with the Diamond Star and other "joint" ventures, is there
any advantage to the good ole' U.S. to buy say a Plymouth Laser
over a Mitsubishi Elcipse?  Or Stealth vs. 3000GT?  ie, would it
help the US more by buying a US name plate??

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Subject: Re: CONSUMER REPORTS
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 22:17:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.185250.2457@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>
>The top of the line Eclipse is a very different car than the under 10k
>Eclipse(check PACE or Edmunds not MSRP Motor Trend).
>
>
>You say that CU couldn't use the Eclipse in a comparison when in fact
>the 92hp one could be compared to some of the other lesser sporty
>cars. 
>
>So, how do you so arrogantly proclaim that I am wrong?
>

	Well, as I remember, they were talking about the Eclipse with the
DOHC engine (not turbo), which ends up being about $15K, which is about 
3K more than the Saturn.  I have to go home (home home, not the dorm)
to look up the particulars, but I will be back, with quotes.. The DOHC gives
the Eclipse the same specs as the SC (Now SC2), and similar acceleration,
but trim level, and features are different...

-- 
"The Clergy Dazzle us with Heaven or they Damn us into Hell"  Billy Bragg!!!!!
IIIII  L    L    IIIII NNNNN IIIII   Chintan Amin c-amin1@uiuc.edu DEPT of E.E.
  I    L    L      I   N   N   I   RUSH	YES FLOYD METALLICA PEARLJAM REM PG
IIIII  LLLL LLLL IIIII N   N IIIII   GO TARHEELS  GO CAPITALS GO COWBOYS 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (REAL LIFE?!?!  HA!!)
Subject: Re: FLAME! Only a Manual!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:42:08 GMT

dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Munroe) writes:

>>While I am not disputing the weight problems, don't you also have to factor in
>>the power loss from the torque converter?

>There are auto trannies with lockup torque converters.  I'm just guessing,
>but I believe that at a certain rpm, they "lock up" and lose little or no
>power through the fluid.

The lockup converter, alas, only locks when the car is cruising.  On any car
with a lockup converter, the thing readily unlocks at 1/2 throttle or so.  Its
function is not to improve performance, but gas mileage.  And I think you will
also find that with the converter locked, your acceleration would not be as
good as it would be with it unlocked (locked converter translates to taller
gear ratio).

$0.02


Michael T. Chaffee        |******BOYCOTT COLORADO******|  ______    
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu | Professional Slapthologist |  \    /     HATE
Member, Universal Life Church, Sect of Loons           |   \  /  can never be
Annoyance Theatre Platinum Member |     Evil Genius    |    \/  a FAMILY VALUE
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: D1SAR@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Steve Rimar)
Subject: Re: CONSUMER REPORTS
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:33:59 GMT

Consumer Reports has been a very good magazine for years and the articles
on autos are also very good.  One of the important areas they do is the
frequency of repair records.  Trends can be seen in the autos reliability
factors.  The frequency of repair is very important to me and a lot of
people that don't want to be spending a lot of time and money on car
repairs.  Why by a vehicle that has a very poor reliability?  As with
any magazine that makes reccomendations see if the items in the pro and
cons fit your needs.  I have been very happy with Consumer Reports in
most all articles.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*                                                                       *
*  STEVE RIMAR                       INTERNET: D1SAR@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU  *
*  INFORMATION SERVICES              BITNET:   D1SAR@AKRONVM            *
*  THE UNIVERSITY OF AKRON                                              *
*  AKRON, OHIO  44325           "TOO MUCH OF A GOOD THING IS WONDERFUL" *
*                                                                       *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Xref: sparky rec.autos:27604 misc.consumers:19376 sci.med:21363
From: baldwin@csservera.scs.usna.navy.mil (J.D. Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,misc.consumers,sci.med
Subject: Re: Seat Belts Releasing in Crashes: Institute for Injury Reduction
Date: 22 Nov 92 17:55:29 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dep't., U.S. Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD
In-reply-to: crpresto@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu's message of 20 Nov 92 18:48:28 -0400

You have touched upon my own proposal for reducing the accident rate:

1) Outlaw all safety belts and restraining devices of any kind.

2) Require all cars to have a 4" metal spike mounted on the steering
   wheel, pointed directly at the driver's sternum.

3) Sit back and watch the collision rate drop to zero.

(0.9999 * :-)
--
 From the catapult of:              |+| "If anyone disagrees with anything I
   _,_  J. D. Baldwin, Comp Sci Dept|+| say, I am quite prepared not only to
 _|70|___:::)=}-  U.S. Naval Academy|+| retract it, but also to deny under
 \      /   baldwin@usna.navy.mil   |+| oath that I ever said it." --T. Lehrer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Fix rear-window defroster?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 12:54 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

>	Anybody know how to fix a scratch across one
>of the glued-on bands of a rear-window defroster? 

Get a bottle of "Rear Window Defroster Repair Paint," available at 
most better auto parts stores but sometimes hard to find at the 
discount barns. Prepare yourself psychologically to spend seven or
eight bucks for a bottle so teeny you'll want to save the cardboard
display packaging just so you don't lose the durn thing.  Follow the 
instructions religiously.  

It's a conductive paint in some kind of glue matrix that will stick 
to glass and withstand temperature change.  It works reasonably well,
though it won't look exactly like the factory wires.

Good luck,
--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: torquey
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 06:25:51 GMT

In article 1e7bceINNcvv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu, aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>you always posting at this time of night, torque?...geez!..we should
>all be in bed!!!(yes..i'll delete this as soon as you answer, that 
>precious banwidth crap<??????>)
>DREW
>-- 
>??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
>??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
>?????????????????????????????????-----whatever!


Were you referring to me?

It was about 9PM when I posted tha last one yesterday.

Torque Monger

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas)
Subject: Re: Fast Japanese Sports Cars
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:09:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.174443.12427@cbfsb.cb.att.com> jjn@cbjjn.cb.att.com (Jeff Nappi) writes:
>In article <If1AkMO00iUxA0YPAG@andrew.cmu.edu>, Jinmo Ahn <ja2f+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>|> 
>|> I'm looking to buying a car very soon.
>|> 
>|> These are the cars that interest me:
>|> 
>|> Nissan 300Z Twin Turbo
>|> Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
>|> Mazda RX-7
>|> 
>|> I'm sure someone else was in similar situation before.  I would like
>|> some comment on any one of the above cars.  If you bought one of them, I
>|> would be interested in knowing why you chose it over the others.
>|> 
>|> Some of the important features I'm looking for are _very_ fast
>|> acceleration and good handling (w/ adjustable suspension).  The
>|> difference in price doesn't really matter as long as it's under 40k.
>|> 
>
>Well if handling a speed are the major factors then the RX7 R1 should be
>your choice. The general feeling is that the RX7 R1 packaged car is the
>closest thing to a road going race car that you can get. Be warned that
>the RX7 R1 does not come close to offering the comfort and conveniences
>the the 300ZX and 3000GT do. I have driven all three cars and power wise
>they are all pretty close but handling wise none of them come close to
>the RX7. I would also give a 93 Corvette a try, its the only one I know
>of that has the adjustable suspension and maybe a used Porsche 911. You
>really can't go wrong with any of the above choices, go out and drive
>all three and pick one.
>-- 
>Jeff Nappi
>Columbus Bell Labs
>jjn@cbjjn.att.com

I second that - you definitely should be checking out an LT1 Vette.  It'll
accelerate with any of them, and handle better than anything but the RX-7.
Plus, it has adjustable suspension, and a pretty nice interior...
Given the choice, I'd actually buy the RX-7.  It *is* the ultimate sports
car!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ___          
       / _ \                 '85 Mustang GT                        Bob Pitas
      /    /USH              14.13 @ 99.8                      bpita@ctp.com
     / /| \                  Up at NED, Epping, NH           (Cambridge, MA)

           "Laughed at by time, tricked by circumstances" -Peart
Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: gjg2001@andy.bgsu.edu (Greg Gantzer)
Subject: Re: Fast Japanese Sports Cars
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: bgsu
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:42:27 GMT


> i feel pity for you.  Anyone who is this far off base deserves my pity.  NOT
> HARDLY!! go buy your 300GT(sic on purpose!) and leave the damn 300ZX to ME!
> so i can see the look on your face when i pass you on the road at speed(damn
> rev limiters..anyone programmed around those yet?) and see you with a
> steaming hunk of mismatched plastic aerocrap in meltdown cuz you tried to
> drive it like they market it!
> DREW
> -- 
> ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> ?????????????????????????????????-----whatever!
The point of this article was that the styling of this car is boring, which
it is.  The convertible looks like shit and the styling is already out of
style.  Mazda knows whats going on and they designed a beautiful car.  The
3000gt is nice too, but could probably use a few refinements.  As for the
zx, give me some No-Doz so I can look at it for more than 30 seconds.

P.S.  Get a real .sig
        __/__/__/__/  __/__/__/__/ __/__/__/__/
       __/                 __/    __/
      __/   __/__/        __/    __/   __/__/
     __/      __/  __/   __/    __/      __/
    __/__/__/__/  __/__/__/    __/__/__/__/
                gjg2001@andy.bgsu.edu
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Street Sleepere
Date: 21 Nov 1992 06:29:46 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, 854mesik@gw.wmich.edu () says:

>
>
>	Everyone is writing about how an SHO Tauras wagon
>would be great. It would be cool, but how about this?
>1992 300 hp LT-1 350 in a Caprice Wagon? It would be a sure
>headturner to see that leave you behind in a puff of smoke eh?
>
>					-Steve
>  ** Rear Wheel Drive = More fun **
>
oh please!!..the ENTIRE CC lineup should be prounounced DEAD and BURIED!
so far, the best looking one i've seen was one of the wagons converted to
a hearse!!!!(i HATE hearses...but i REALLY think GM screwed up the CC's
when they redesigned and "improved" them!!!) just bury it all, and chalk
it up as (another) loss!
DREW
-- 
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????-----whatever!
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Raising the limit
Date: 18 Nov 1992 19:09:25 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

jyri+@CMU.EDU (Jyri Virkki) writes:
>> C) American/Japaneese cars (the majority) are _much_ less safe than the great
>>         European touring sedans...  We don't have the equipment, I'd hate 90
>>         in my Civic.

>This reason particularly is not true. A Civic, or any other equivalent
>car, will cruise all day at 110mph with no difficulty at all. There
>are very few cars anymore that are not suited for 100+ driving, even
>the worst offenders of a few years ago, big american sedans, are now
>being built with acceptable handling. The only modern car I've been in
>that became twitchy after 70 or so was the Geo Metro.

That's not really true.  The last generation of the Sentra (when it
was still boxy) was skittish over 70 and jumpy over 80 (and needed a
hill to hit 80 :-).  So's the older Hyundai Excel.

The new econoboxes are certainly getting better, though, and there
never was a problem with the midsized cars.  100mph is too high for
most of the econoboxes though -- many of them can't even maintain
85mph.

Picking your speed limit by making certain that all cars and drivers
can safely maintain that limit is impossible.  Picking one where most
can do so is easy, just watch what traffic does -- on the average
people don't run themselves and their cars at the edge of the
envelope.  Based on what I see everyday that safe point would be well
above 55mph, probably around 70-75mph (and whattaya know, that's right
around where the speed limits used to be around here).

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:00:19 -0500 
From: Truman Fenton <tf26+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Electric Vehicles
Distribution: usa


> 
>Is there a news group for electric autos.  
> 
>I just came from Westcom and there were a dozen machines there that
>looked pretty interesting.
> 
>Thanks
> 
Dave
 
I just read most of the new IEEE journal which had a lengthy special on
electric cars.  You should definately check it out.  Look for it in an
engineering library.

Truman
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Subject: Re: Street Sleepere
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:51:05 GMT

In article <13891@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM writes:
>In article 6476@gw.wmich.edu, 854mesik@gw.wmich.edu () writes:
>>
>>
>>	Everyone is writing about how an SHO Tauras wagon
>>would be great. It would be cool, but how about this?
>>1992 300 hp LT-1 350 in a Caprice Wagon? It would be a sure
>>headturner to see that leave you behind in a puff of smoke eh?
>>
>>					-Steve
>>  ** Rear Wheel Drive = More fun **
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^=

       Isn't the Caprice FWD?  :-)

-- 
"The Clergy Dazzle us with Heaven or they Damn us into Hell"  Billy Bragg!!!!!
IIIII  L    L    IIIII NNNNN IIIII   Chintan Amin c-amin1@uiuc.edu DEPT of E.E.
  I    L    L      I   N   N   I   RUSH	YES FLOYD METALLICA PEARLJAM REM PG
IIIII  LLLL LLLL IIIII N   N IIIII   GO TARHEELS  GO CAPITALS GO COWBOYS 
Xref: sparky rec.autos:27335 misc.consumers:19287 misc.kids:28833 talk.politics.medicine:37 sci.med:21249
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,misc.consumers,misc.kids,talk.politics.medicine,sci.med
Subject: Re: Seat Belts Releasing in Crashes: Institute for Injury Reduction
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:47:36 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <1992Nov19.065603.19747@r-node.gts.org>, ndallen@r-node.gts.org 
(Nigel Allen) writes:
>    This is entirely consistent with NHTSA's shirking of its safety
> duties under the Reagan-Bush Administration's anti-regulation
> policies in the past NHTSA has declared as safe the following, to
> name just a few examples;
>    Cars without air bags, cars without rear shoulder belts, roll-
> over prone utility vehicles, rupture-prone fuel tanks, child
> restraints without side impact protection, door-mounted seat belts
> that open in crashes, non-adjustable shoulder belt anchorages,
> lacerating windshields, collapsing seat backs, slack-inducing belts
> and antilock brakes.


What is wrong with anti-lock brakes?


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com or 74616.2237@compuserve.com
SHO  GOZE
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jbii@HDFS1.acd.com ( John O. Bell II )
Subject: Sorry, blew by the article... Re: High Speed License Possibility?
Summary: Gotta change that...
Keywords: high speed license
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:04:02 GMT

The idea I saw about issuing high speed licenses was pretty well thought
out... problem is that a red background on license photos is used to
indicate minors (i.e. for alcohol purchase) in some states (I know they
do this in Illinois).
Newsgroups: rec.autos