From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: Arab Gestures
Reply-To: horen@rs.com
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:37:15 PDT

In article 11052@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM, nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.171746.23926@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>>
>>Can anybody list any substantial Arab gestures of goodwill towards Israel,
>>say comparable to ending the intifada, stopping terrorist attacks on
>>civilians, ending the boycott, ending the secondary and tertiery aspects of
>>the boycott, ceasing to distribute anti-semitic literature such as the
>>Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or something comparable?
>>
>
>1> Me talking to you
>2> Peace with Egypt
>3> Meeting at the Peace table
>4> Accepting two states idea

1 Me talking to you - Please. Aside from the fact that you, and I, and all 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   of us on the net are, insofar as our posting are concerned, 
		      "disembodied voices", and as such, our communications are 
		      not to be considered "substantial", the other three
		      entries you've given us are at best enigmatic.

2 Peace with Egypt -- what does this mean? That *Egypt* did *Israel* a favor
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    by signing a peace treaty?? My gosh, Nabil -- Egypt
		      was roundly *defeated* by Israel -- she was no threat
		      to us. Moreover, as we all know, while the treaty
		      could have meant good things for both nations, in
		      reality it only returned unused land to Egypt that had
		      been lost in Egypt's adventurist military campaign, but
		      gave nothing to Israel -- no trade, no tourism, zero.

3 Meeting at the Peace table -- here, too; it is Israel who has made not only
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^	gestures, but actually implemented changes,
				such as cancelling the building of new
				settlements.

4 Accepting two states idea --	and here, too; it will be Israel (G-d forbid!)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^	who will be giving up something which was
				gained at the cost of many dead, in a war which
				she didn't start or want.

"Gestures of goodwill" doesn't mean empty words or glibly-spoken phrases, it
means *actions* -- actions taken despite the fact that doing them hurts.
Actions like Alan Stein listed -- stopping terrorism, ending the boycott,
etc., etc. Actions like Israel has taken, like giving back the Sinai Desert --
90% of the land Israel won during a war waged upon her by Egypt (among others)
and with a fortune in oil, like cancelling the building of new settlements, etc.

The only meaningful gestures I have seen the Palestinians making are the ones
where they throw rocks at us or give us the finger.

>Give the Palestinians a state and you will not need any goodwill gestures, you
>will have peace.

"Gimme, gimme, can you spare?"  Spare us this tired litany. Or, better yet, sing
it to your Arab brothers. They have hundreds-of-thousands of square miles of
land throughout the Middle East, but they wouldn't dream of giving-up any of
*their* land to their Palestinian cousins or of accepting them into *their*
countries as full citizens.

>>Or can anybody explain why it is always Israel that is called on to take
>>confidence-building measures? 

Well, Nabil?? Where's your answer??

 +------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
 | Jonathan B. Horen      |                                              |
 | TechWriter/SysAdmin    |      From L.A. to Palestine:                 |
 | email: j.horen@rs.com  |      Same fight, same struggle!              |
 | Tel:   (415) 856-8000  |                                              |
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Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast