HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kupstas@rainier.cs.unc.edu (Eileen Kupstas)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Climbs for short people
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:19:29 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <1992Jul29.151839.26603@ncar.ucar.edu> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
>Cheryl (5'2") and I (5'4") did an interesting route yesterday afternoon -- 
>the crux was a roof which seemed to require getting scrunched up underneath
>(in order to gain the footholds), then reaching out, finding a lieback
>edge around the corner, and leaning back, head tucked to clear the roof,
>then reaching up to a good knob above.  
>
>I went to the gym a lot this past winter with my friend Roy, who's 6'4",
>and although usually his height was a blatant advantage, occasional roof
>and cave problems were set up to deliberately make it harder for tall
>people.  It occurred to me that perhaps this route we did might also
>be harder for taller people -- the first natural route I've done where
>being small is an advantage!  (The route I'm talking about is Twofers,
>on Happy Hour Crag -- tall locals are welcome to concur or disagree).
>
>Does anybody else have a route to recommend where being short is an
>advantage?
>
>-- 
>/\        Ilana Stern DoD#009 | Whoever first said, "Things are seldom as they 
>  \_][    ilana@ncar.ucar.edu | seem," was wrong.  Things are usually as they
>      \_______________________| seem.  Otherwise, they wouldn't seem that way.

 I am 5'6" (not _too_ short!) and my partner is 6'2". I often feel
at a great disadvantage due to the height difference! Two routes,though,
have helped me feel pretty good about it all. One is Head Jam (5.5-ish)
at Moore's Wall, NC. It requires you to squat under a low roof, reach
around a 2 foot "bump" to get a good hold, then press against the wall
and slide about a foot. To make the slide, you have to fit your head
between the wall and a projection from the roof (hence the name).The 
guidebook even says that people over 5'6" will have a tough time (hee,
hee, one of my favorites!). The other is Bird's Nest at Great Falls, MD.
It has a portion that must be traversed while under a low roof. I squat
and use a handy undercling; my partner just can't get comfy under the
roof...
Is the short person advantage only at roofs?

Other fun parts for smaller (not necessarily shorter)people 
are the little chimneys and small ledges. Often I can fit 
in a chimney and work my way up a yucky blankish stretch of a climb,
whereas my partner has to stay outside the chimney and use what 
holds he can get from the chimney and the wall. I can get somewhat
comfortable on smaller ledges and can also use smaller ledges for
mantling. Taller people seem to need more leg room to do a successful
mantle (a couple of good ones at Great Falls come to mind).

We shorter folk need all the comforts we can get!

Eileen 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: scochran@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Steve Cochran)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: cairns
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:20:39 GMT
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)


>I have been amazed that so many people are offended by cairns. 

   I agree.  Think what torture it must be for these people to be on an actual
trail!

   I'm also amazed at the number of people who require absolute solitude when
they go the the wilderness.  Many of the ones that I've packed with 
dislike (to the extreme) meeting other people in the backcountry.  Kind of 
makes me feel like I shouldn't be along on the trip - I might be destroying
their experience or something.  Maybe they should go solo.  For the most part,
the people I've met in the backcountry are interesting and articulate.  The
kind of folks I'd like to hang out with all the time.

SC
From: klaus@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Klaus B. Biggers)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Animal Friendly Climbing Boots
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:43:55 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory

In article <1992Jul21.144329.8518@guinness.idbsu.edu> jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu writes:
>In article <25634@life.ai.mit.edu>, klaus@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu 
>(Klaus B. Biggers) writes:
>|>A valid point. However, both the leather and the petroleum products
>|>used
>|>for plastics are basically by-products from a larger industry...
>|>gasoline
>|>and beef to eat. So if you want to have any impact, cut back on your
>|>consumption af beef and gasoline. The leather and plastics cutback
>|>will
>|>come about much more easily then.
>|>
>
>Perhaps, if after putting on your boots, you pick up a stick 
>and beat yourself?

I'm not sure I understand this. But beating yourself with a stick
probably won't make things worse. :)


>  And, dare I say it?  Lycra must be a 
>petroleum product?  I still can't shake this image from my
>head of a 7-kid family in the suburbs, with a warm smile of
>self-righteousness as they seperate the diet coke cans and
>put them in the recycle box.

I'd still rather see that than a 7-kid family in the suburbs that
doesn't give a damn. A lot of the point of doing things like
recycling in a family is awareness of the problem. Maybe the seven
kids will grow up to be (for lack of a better term) environmentalists.
Rathar that than them turning out to be miners, loggers, etc.

One of the strangest eco-stances I see are the granola heads that
will not wear synthetic sweaters and opt for wool instead. Like
the sheep industry is less environmentally damaging. Its always
a lose - lose situation. The object is to just to minimize your
impact. And that applies whether your taking a dump in the woods
or whether your building a smelter. There is no entirely consistent
stance. There are flaws in all of the philosophies. Probably the
only way to really minimize your impact is to check out early :)

-klaus                                              klaus@ced.utah.edu

                         Visualize Whirled Peas
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: yeida@sfc.sony.com (Yeida Chang)
Subject: re: short people
Organization: Sony Advanced Video Technology Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:02:49 GMT

>as lynn hill said,
>if you are short, it just means that you get
>more climbing in on any particular route than tall people, so why complain?


Was is also Lynn Hill who said 
"There are no reach problems, just strength problems." 


I'm 5'6" which is reasonably tall for a woman.  Now if I only
had Lynn Hill's relative strength...
From: eexmsj@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (M.S.Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Don Whillans books?
Date: 29 Jul 92 07:35:26 GMT
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham

In article <1992Jul28.155722.16396@guinness.idbsu.edu> jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu writes:
>In reference to "carefull with that ice axe" Eugene's post:
>
>[l/m 6/22/92] References 		Distilled Wisdom (28/28) XYZ
>--------
>|>%A Don Whillans did an autobiography which would probably be good, and
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|>as well, Dougal Haston wrote a novel, "Calculated Risk" I think,
>|>but I don't think it was too good (he had a bit part in the
>|>"Eiger Sanction").
>
> Did Don Whillans write anything?  Has anyone else written a biography
>on Don Whillans?  Anyone know?  I've never heard of one, but would
>be interested.  'Enquiring' degenerates need to know ....
>

Yes someone has written a book about Don unfortunately I don't have the info!!
I've just been to the Alps and I took an old Climber (The UK publication) with
me because of an article about a group doing the Frendo Spur. In it there was
an article reffering to a book soon to be published that the author had
written. The magazine was from 1991 I think but can't be sure because I left it
at home. It didn't quote the full info about the book because it hadn't been
published then. Sorry the info's sketchy but someone with that issue to hand
might be able to post a bit more.
Keep looking though
Martin
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 17:46:23 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Jul30.210812.8112@morrow.stanford.edu>
AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>Speaking of the Alps, did yoy know that in Austria they PAINT trail
>markers on avaiable rock slas/walls, etc?  This is a bit of "old
>world sophistication" I can do without1

Yes, I knew.
We paint trails (rocks) all over this country:

	1) Strawberry Peak N of Los Angeles (green arrows)
	2) SLC, one of the best known practice rocks next to the
		foothill expressway has the routes numbered.
	3) SLO, the local ROTC painted a large 'P' for the school.
	4) The old 'CU' painted on the Third Flatiron above Boulder,
		removed, but visible.
	etc.

The Alps also have crosses (huge in some cases, we do, too), big ladders
for the trails, handrails, cable cars, cog railways.  But as partner Dave
and I were talking about driving back from climbing, we have a lot of things
the Old World does not: namely space.  Wide open space.  And the things
which come with that like animals.  Big open public land.  Where
lumber jacks can leap from tree to tree....

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Subject: Re: sole unstuck from bottom of climbing shoe
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:25:59 GMT


barge cement and a vehicle...

(depends upon how much you value your shoes)  Mine did that (on their
3rd resole, so I broke out the barge cement.. then parked the fron
wheels of my truck on top of my shoes overnight.  Seemed to work
pretty well.  (The shoes were old 5.10 razors, which are more just
used for bouldering these days... and were/are pretty broken down)

you may not want to do this with a newer pair!

--
tim schneider                       honeywell air transport systems division
ph: 602.436.3078 fax: 602.436.2252   po box 21111 ms k26e2 phoenix, az 85036
email: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  or  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sshostek@std.MENTORG.COM (Steve Shostek)
Subject: Re: Climbs for short people 
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:04:52 GMT

(Posted for Steve Shostek -- irs)

Ilana Stern asks:
> Does anybody else have a route to recommend where being short is an
> advantage?

Yes. Midrif Bulge (9/10a) at Smith Rock is an undercling  roof problem
that ends in a lieback. It sounds a lot like the climb that Ilana 
describes and is easier for short people than it is for tall folks.
It can be found on the NW side of Asterisc Pass, just beyond the Awl.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:08:12 GMT

>Hindu Kush will vary, do some book reading for those).
>
>We are not discussing the Hinterstoisher (sp) Traverse here. 8^)
>Besides, ultimately some one will litigate a bad trip over this.
>Just you watch.
>
>        "Disappearing Dome is so named because the first ascent party
>        got lost on the way back to their car."
>
>--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
>  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
>  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
>Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
>A Ref: Climbers Guides to the High Sierra by Steve Roper and earlier edition
>        by the late Hervey Voge

Speaking of the Alps, did yoy know that in Austria they PAINT trail
markers on avaiable rock slas/walls, etc?  This is a bit of "old
world sophistication" I can do without1
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: shing@tramp.Colorado.EDU (shing)
Subject: BOULDERING near Denver, CO
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:19:03 GMT

What is the best bouldering near Denver?  I don't have the equipment to
climb, so I have to resort to bouldering.  I have been up to Eldorado,
and found that to be interesting.  Any other places besides Eldorado?
Or, do you have any recommend any good boulders in Eldorado Canyon?

thanks in advance
.
..
Shing
..
.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Subject: Re: Rock Climbing... bungee jumping???
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:40:43 GMT


** "Brett" == Commander Brett Maraldo <bmaraldo@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> writes:


Brett> 	I have an awful lot of people ask me if and when I am going to go
Brett> bungee jumping, in light of the fact that I rock climb.  I found this to
Brett> be an unusual question and can't see why people relate the two.

<rambling on>

I get the same thing... They're not the same!  (Except maybe that
segment on the Ultimate Challenge when Dave Schultz is taking practice
falls from a bridge with Wolgang Gullich watching... I love that
quote from Gullich. "Dat vas good.. now maybe do that 4 or 5 more
times" ... "hear me today, listen to me last week"
(Gullich... he didnt really say that last bit, just threw that in
 for effect) (king's lunge segment)

I'll admit it may be a little easier for me to stand on the edge of
the "plank" without the height bothering me, and possibly "take the
plunge" but I have refrained from doing it because to me bungee is
akin to rappelling.  You are not in control, and you're totally 
ependent upon the anchors and equipment for your well-being.

I dont care that much for rappelling, and do it primarily as a means
of getting down from a climb.  I feel the same about bungee I guess.

Talked to one of my climbing partners who jumped while vacationing in
N.Z.  He said after a couple of jumps the ruch went away, and it got
kinda boring.  He enjoys climbing more, and exclaimed that the
rush/fear/feeling of accomplishment you get from running it out on
RP's (and living to tell about it?) is definitely better than all the
bungee jumps in the world!

<rambling off>


tims

--
tim schneider                       honeywell air transport systems division
ph: 602.436.3078 fax: 602.436.2252   po box 21111 ms k26e2 phoenix, az 85036
email: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  or  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: Doug.Hemken@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Doug Hemken)
Subject: interpreting cairns
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:03:12 GMT


Greg John writes:  "what we may have here is a clash of
philosophies/persepectives"

What we have here is an artifact/technology that is created and used for
many different ends:  safety in horrible weather, reducing environmental
impact, leaving a mark, passing time while the rest of the party catches
up. . . .  If we can't discuss the multitude of reasons for building
cairns and in which situation they may be justified, rather than making
blanket universal statements like "cairns are good" or "cairns are bad",
then we can't have a reasonable discussion.  Do the cairns on top of
Monkey Face and the cairns on top of Mt. Washington belong in the same
conversation?

-=> Doug Hemken
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: pehren@orion.nrl.navy.mil (Paul Ehrenfreucter)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Mountain Tools catalogue
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:53:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Research Lab, Physical Acoustics, Washington, DC

Howdy,

	Does anyone have an address or phone number for Mountain Tools.
I would like to get their catalogue but can't find an address anywhere.

					Thanks,

					Paul Ehrenfeuchter
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Webbing Strength
Date: 25 Jul 92 01:40:04 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <5094@transfer.stratus.com> kogan@sw.stratus.com
(Doug Kogan) writes:
>Well it seems we've talked about 'biner & rope strength, so why not progress
>to webbing.  I was at my local climbing supply store the other night and 
>while looking at their webbing/sling strength chart I was amazed to find out
>that flat webbing is stronger than tubular webbing of equal width.  Is this 
>true?  If so does anybody know why?

1) Contrary to some posting, rock tends to be weaker that other parts of
   the belay chain.
2) This is all tested when new.  Our gear does not tend to stay new long.
3) One is also assuming the flat webbing is made of the same stuff as the
   tubular.  Tubular is is generally stronger unless you are comparing
   different materials.  It also tends to resist wear better (much harder
   to measure).  Your manufacturer will vary.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: white_hae@ccsua.ctstateu.edu
Subject: LaSportiva Mythos shoe
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:53:27 GMT

Hi All

Has anyone had any experience with LaSportiva Mythos?

I'm looking for a shoe for the home crags (Ragged Mountain, CT), which
are traprock (basalt).

Thx
Harry

PS - Any Ragged Mountain rats out there?
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: climb sport lingo
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:36:01 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

I'll fabricate an FAQ just for r.c. out of all of these.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:33:13 GMT
Subject: Re: Animal Friendly Climbing Boots
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

> 
>                                                      Its always
> a lose - lose situation. The object is to just to minimize your
> impact. And that applies whether your taking a dump in the woods
> or whether your building a smelter. There is no entirely consistent
> stance. There are flaws in all of the philosophies. Probably the
> only way to really minimize your impact is to check out early :)
>

I think Klaus is right.  ALL environmental problems can be directly traced
to over-population of the human animal.  I'm not suggesting you "check out
early", but too many humans is the cause; everything else is just a symptom.

John

"More wilderness, less people"

(The legend on a button that has a circle&slash over a picture of a baby)

Xref: sparky rec.climbing:2591 rec.backcountry:5599
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:17:28 GMT
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Originator: stgprao@xing

In article <rjg.712267060@guinan> rjg@doe.carleton.ca (Richard Griffith) writes:
>In <1992Jul27.193311.12124@news.mentorg.com> billw@ace.mentorg.com (Bill Wright) writes:
>1) Cairns be created continuously along all routes. These cairns will be
> color coded by separation distance.
>2) All parties will be required to rent color coded glasses that will filter
> out the color of all cairns deemed to be ``too close together'' for the
> stated experience level of the party and the current weather conditions.

I just use glow-in-the-dark neon-orange spray paint, the extra tough kind that
lasts for years.  I paint arrows and write words if necessary.  You can see
these for miles.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
From: wild@eng.umd.edu (Randolph F. Wild)
Subject: Re: Public perceptions.  Was: Rock Climbing... bungee jumping???
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 13:34:51 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Originator: wild@pepsi.eng.umd.edu


>In article <1992Jul29.172314.116391@zeus.calpoly.edu>, 
>jdalbey@zeus.calpoly.edu (John Dalbey) writes:
>
>I guess the moral of the story is that climbers must make every
>effort to educate the lay public about outdoor activities if we
>are concerned about the politics of climbing and/or wilderness.
>People aren't going to vote for wilderness if they don't understand
>why it might be nice to have around.
>
>--jd

  This is true.  Suppose people naively equate rockclimbing with bungee
jumping. Then we might see the extension of the Florida ban on commercial
bungee jumping to a ban on rock climbing, of some sort, all in the 
interest of public safety.  Fortunately there is is not much rock climbing
in Florida so it probably will not happen there.

                                              RANDY

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Castle Rock State Park climbing info?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:08:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.172839.4521@oracle.us.oracle.com>,
rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) writes:
>apurmal@us.oracle.com writes:
>
>>to get an idea of what my friend and I might be able to tackle.  I'd
>>also appreciate any other information you might have regarding
>>climbing at Castle Rock.
>
>I took a rock climbing class there a few years ago with some coworkers.
>Castle Rock, at least the area I'm acquainted with, is made of pitted
>stone - I think it's limestone - that's been eaten away in thousands of
>places, some finger-sized, some fist-sized, some body-sized. Makes for

Sorry!  It's sandstone (raised beach/seabed) not limestone.
Although there is some limestone along the North/South ridgeline
west of SF Bay, virtually none is exposed in a "climb-worthy"
manner.  The sandstone at Castle Rock is very polished due to the
mega-thousands of climbers on it for decades.  If muck arounnd the
nearby slopes a bit (watch for poison oak) you can find examples of
what the surface of these formations looked like in "a sate of
nature".
Newsgroups: rec.climbing