From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:11:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: i88.1992Aug31.221102.2221
Followup-To: /dev/null
Distribution: usa
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL

In article <1992Aug31.210517.25476@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:

>Why don't you read before making stupid comments?

Okay, on the 8th reading, it appears I mistook your intent in the paragraphs
above (which I have deleted).

So it sounds like we are actually on the same side of the issue.
Which makes the following all the more remarkable.

AAP> Also, to end discrimination it is not
AAP>enough to go around saying "it is wrong, and that is it". We need to find
AAP>the reasons why there is discrimination, and then find how to change theM.
>>
JEQ>Changing the reasons is a group effort, however, and if _you_ don't
JEQ>go around saying "it is wrong", then _your_neighbor_ may innocently have
JEQ>no clue at all, and blissfully continue on saying "it is right", just the
JEQ>way his parents taught him.  If someone is discriminating against a
JEQ>person or persons without giving any conscious thought to the reasons
JEQ>why, then changing or eliminating the reasons will _not_ eliminate the
JEQ>behaviour.  The irony is that someone can know that the reasons
JEQ>for a behaviour are wrong, but never connect that wrong with the behaviour.
JEQ>Saying "it is wrong" to your neighbor may not be comfortable, but then,
JEQ>if life were meant to always be comfortable, we'd all have been born
JEQ>wearing oversized sweaters, eating hot fudge sundaes in front of a
JEQ>warm fire.

>We are talking here about changing social patterns of behavior, not your 
>neighbor's idea about something.

The two are absolutely one in the same, unless your neighbor happens to
not be a member of society.

>You do not change a social pattern by telling one by one: "it is wrong".
>You change social patterns by changing society as a whole.

Okay, I'm having trouble reading you again.  I'm saying that you can effect
gradual change by effecting individual change.  You are saying, in effect,
"No, you can't.  You have to change society by changing society."  Okay,
if you're going to reduce it to saying "1 = 1", then pray tell, how
would you suggest I change society.  I don't buy the notion that I have
to sit on the sidelines and wait for professional sociologists to change
society in one fell swoop.  And I don't agree with the assertion that
one on one interaction can't have some beneficial effect in the long
run.  I won't pretend that the effects of my influence will even be
measureable, in the context of society as a whole.  Given the much smaller
context of the community I live in, it could have a major effect.
Since there are young children in my immediate neighborhood, and relatively
few minority residents, changing my neighbors attitudes just enough to
prevent him from passing his inherited racism to his pre-school son
could conceivably affect dozens of children, and in the context of
my community 20 or 40 years from now, the overall effect could be
staggering.  So go ahead, wait for a magic lozenge to change all of
society.  In the meantime, I'll just keep trying to make my own little
corner of the world a better place.

And now, patient readers, a happy announcement:  This is the last I will
say on this topic, at least in the plethora of newsgroups it's getting
to now.  I will welcome any email discussion, but I won't comment publicly.
So go ahead, call me a moron.  I'll just sit back and laugh quietly.
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality