HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng)
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:58:40 GMT

In article <Oct.3.08.59.49.1992.12521@ruhets.rutgers.edu> farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.191132.13237@tc.fluke.COM>, nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng) writes:
>> If you want to claim the bible is untrustworthy in its facts or details, 
>> then how can you as a "christian" support the resurrection as a fact or 
>> detail, the cornerstone of our faith?  The common theme of all non-Christian
>> religions is to first doubt the bible as the inerrant word of God--something
>> that Jesus Christ did not do.
>> Just look at JW's, Mormons, Islam, Newage, Christian Science, Moonies & the
>> Unitarians, Bahai's etc etc etc......  
>> 
>> 
>> -Arnold Nordeng
>>  nordenga@tc.fluke.COM
>
>Now wait just a over-zealous minute. Number one, many "non-Christian"
>religions did just fine and dandy for millenia without having a
>Christian bible to refute.  For example: Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism,
>etc. 

If Hindusim and Buddhism are doing today as they have always done, they
are not doing "just fine".  In India, people are starving as a result
of rats eating roughly 1/3 of their crops they produce.  Due to hinduism
they refuse to control the rat population on the account that it may be
a grandpa working of his karma.  Traditionally the caste system has
been used to keep the rich and wealthy in power generation after
generation and the poor in deep poverty.....all due to a superstitious 
belief of karma and reincarnation.

Buddhism:  People in asia are starving, and people don't care...another
result in the belief that it is due to you.  Christians are the only
ones caring for other people because of true love for people as people,
and not a silly superstitious belief in reincarnation or sins of a past
lifetime.

No, people have not been doing "fine" for a millenia before Jesus came.
That is why Jesus came so we "can have life and have it abundantly".

Jesus said, 'I am the way the truth and the LIFE'.

>
>"Ask me a riddle, and I [should] reply,       Lorenzo Farris
>`Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie'"     farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu

-Arnold Nordeng
From: gt0009b@prism.gatech.EDU (rahim)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:59:09 GMT
Organization: Ga Tech

In article <1992Oct13.182218.1737@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
>               Secondly, and more importantly, after a particular 
>          Master physically dies and leaves this world, there is 
>          NOTHING that He can do for ANYbody except for the relatively 
>          few people that He INITIATED while He was still physically 
>          alive. 

There are internal guides.  To say that a person needs the physical
presence of a perfect living master is not only to underestimate a 
master's ability to guide, but also a chela's ability to be receptive
to the master's message.


>               Therefore, all those Christians who worship Jesus, and 
>          pray to Jesus, and expect Jesus to return and save them from 
>          their sins, are only KIDDING THEMSELVES, and have allowed 
>          themselves to be DUPED by a religion that was mostly 
>          MANUFACTURED by the Romans. 
>      
>               These things are similarly true for followers of most 
>          other major world religions, including Islam. 

There are groups within Islam that have their perfect living masters,
but I agree that orthodox Islam does not.

>               People who continue following Christianity, Islam, or 
>          other orthodox religions with a physically DEAD Master, will 
>          CONTINUE on their cycles of REincarnation between the psychic 
>          planes and this MISERABLE physical world, until they finally 
>          WISE UP! 

Why is there so much emphasis on the master being physically alive?

>               If a Perfect Living Master physically dies 
>          ("translates") before a particular Initiate of His does, then 
>          when that Initiate physically dies ("translates"), the Master 
>          will meet him on the Astral level and take him directly to 
>          the Soul Plane.  This is the ONE AND ONLY correct meaning of 
>          a 2nd Coming.

Do not think that you hold the one and true interpretation on anything.
Monolithic thinking stifles everything that religion is about.

>               If a person is not HEARING some form of the "SOUND 
>          CURRENT" ("THE WORD", "THE BANI", "THE AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM"), 
>          then his cycles of REINCARNATION in this MISERABLE world WILL 
>          CONTINUE. 

People who listen to themselves will find what they need to advance
in their development.  It may be blind faith, or hearing the "Sound 
Current", or writing a book, or just sitting and doing nothing.
Everyone will need something different to advance, and setting up
a general formula of release from salvation like that is denying
the individual path, in which the individual finds the divine power
in his or her own heart.

rahim
-- 
       "I could turn you inside out, but I choose not to do."
                                                   -R.E.M.
From: doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson)
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 19:56:06 GMT

nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng) writes:

> >Now wait just a over-zealous minute. Number one, many "non-Christian"
> >religions did just fine and dandy for millenia without having a
> >Christian bible to refute.  For example: Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism,
> >etc. 
> 
> If Hindusim and Buddhism are doing today as they have always done, they
> are not doing "just fine".  In India, people are starving as a result
> of rats eating roughly 1/3 of their crops they produce.  Due to hinduism
> they refuse to control the rat population on the account that it may be
> a grandpa working of his karma.  Traditionally the caste system has
> been used to keep the rich and wealthy in power generation after
> generation and the poor in deep poverty.....all due to a superstitious 
> belief of karma and reincarnation.

And in Ireland Protestants are shooting Catholics for having shot
Protestants - Christians all . . . add due to a superstitious belief
that one's own Church has the One True Way.

> Buddhism:  People in asia are starving, and people don't care...another
> result in the belief that it is due to you.  Christians are the only
> ones caring for other people because of true love for people as people,
> and not a silly superstitious belief in reincarnation or sins of a past
> lifetime.

Christians are not the only ones who care and who love and by no means
are all Christians caring and loving. For every outrageous example of
human suffering that you can attribute to a belief in reincarnation I
can match it with an example of an outrage deriving from the teaching of
one or another Christian Church.

And I'm a Christian too.

I think the problem you are pointing at is not a problem with a belief
in reincarnation but rather a general problem associated with social or
cultural habits forming around narrow and rigidly dogmatic
interpretations of a spiritual idea.

Many people who believe in re-incarnation do not shy away from keeping
cats to suppress the local rodent population.

Many people who believe in Jesus do not insist that others who do not
share that belief are therefore inferior.

In closing let me just quote a cute aphorism:

"All people who make sweeping generalizations are stupid."

. . . and another . . . 

"The world consists of two kinds of people. There are the stupid ones
who divide the world into only two classes, and there are the others."

=Doug
From: nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:01:44 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

In article <1992Oct7.165840.14358@tc.fluke.COM> nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng) writes:
>
>Buddhism:  People in asia are starving, and people don't care...another
>result in the belief that it is due to you.  
                                        ^^^
Ooops, meant karma.
>
>-Arnold Nordeng
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Question for Arnold (was Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:31:26 GMT

Tom Gorski (gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu) wrote:

: Um...Arnold?  As you know, I certainly don't go out of my way to see
: the universe as Ed does [Hi Ed!  Figured out your enlightenment yet?  Hah!
: Good luck!  :-) ], but I think he brings up a worthwhile point here.

"A tree in a golden forest", Tom. :)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG                  erc@apple.com                     801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 1992 17:25:55 -0400 
From: William Perrin Slease <ws1q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: RE:  A course in Miracles...

>I remember that Jesus said, insisted in fact, that John the Baptist was the 
>reincarnation of Isiah. (Matthew 11, 15 confirms this, but I believe there is 

A)  Jesus stated that John the Baptist was the reappearance of the
spirit of Elijah (not Isaiah).  (See the end of Micah (I think) where
God says he will send the spirit of Elijah again)

B)  Whether or not this says anything about reincarnation is up to your
idea of the word spirit and your beliefs about the life of Elijah. 
Interestingly, Elijah did not die according to the Old Testament but was
taken up, quite alive, into heaven.  Also, the Hebrew concept of spirit
was more a personality or life direction from what I understand.  The
spirit was a small part of the heart which was more descriptive of the
whole person...read my post regarding Sexuality & Religion for more on
that...

Bill
From: smd@sl0091.srl.ford.com (Steve Dahmen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS
Date: 14 Oct 1992 20:22:31 GMT
Organization: Scientific Research Lab, Ford Motor Company
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sl0091.srl.ford.com
Originator: smd@sl0091.srl.ford.com



Sounds to me like you're carrying an AWFULLY heavy burden of a belief
system.  You're also giving the Eckankar Path an extremely poor reputation
by vomiting your beliefs in such a fundamentalist Manner... think about
a bigger picture than yourself before you write, hm?


-- 
Steve Dahmen ** Graphics Application Programmer
Ford Motor Company
smd@sl0091.srl.ford.com
313-594-3229 (work)
-- 
Steve Dahmen ** Graphics Application Programmer
Ford Motor Company
smd@sl0091.srl.ford.com
313-594-3229 (work)
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4624 alt.alien.visitors:7281 alt.religion.kibology:4152
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Date: Fri,  9 Oct 92 06:11:48 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Dear Big Foot Lovers: It's good to see that my posting did come 
through OK. You can always tell if it is me by seeing if I make a 
mistake (I usually do). Big Foot is most of the time spelled as two
words. Anyway I be trying to put down some serious posting about the 
subject in the future in a humerous way.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 12:35:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.210510.19409@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> amorgan@csd-d-5.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) writes:

>Right.  Plus there is the fact that Columbus was making his journey
>based on mis-information (he thought the Earth was smaller than it was
>which is why he was convinced the Americas were India/China).

First, the Piri Reis map is not just a collection of random blobs - much
of it is pretty accurate.  Secondly, yes, Columbus thought the earth
was only about 22,000 km in circumference (based on a singularly bad
measurement by a Hellenistic guy whose name I forget).  He also thought
Asia was a lot biggfer than it is, largely thanks to Claudius Ptolemy.
And he insisted ever after that he really had found the Indies.

But that doesn't really clinch the matter, does it?  Columbus could
have had a map, it could have been a map of the Americas, and he
still could have thought it was a map of east Asia.

Another intriguing issue is the map projection.  The map is dated 1513,
but the projection wasn't rediscovered until the nineteenth century.
So it's not Mediaeval or Renaissance.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Becoming aware
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:35:53 -0600
Distribution: world

 writes
>
>In article <Oct.12.08.16.32.1992.20987@ruhets.rutgers.edu>, farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo  
Farris) writes:
>:In article <1992Oct10.213354.7488@leland.Stanford.EDU>, yunus@loro-next.Stanford.EDU (Jonas Sami  
Celebiler) writes:
..
>:Also, suppression of emotions has little to do with meditation.
>
>No?  I'd say that many eastern traditions teach outright avoidance of
>emotional expression along with their meditative practice, so in Earth
>culture, I'd say there is a connection.  Fortunately, there are some
>traditions that incorporate emotions healthily into meditation.

A connection. That was his point. The experience of meditation is independent of
emotional doctrine. 

>
>:Someone may think it does, but I will bet they have a pretty tough
>:time meditating, let alone living.
>
>I definately do, and my meditations are wonderful :-)  In fact, the more
>I work with my emotional expression, the DEEPER and FARTHER I can go 
>in my meditation.  Fact.

Redundant. This was implied. (Not that I object to your saying so, I just aim to clarify.)
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Becoming aware
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:29:04 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1821@lysator.liu.se>, ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson) writes:
> I can imagine. Do yourself a favour, go to an AA meeting and then tell
> *yourself* you are not an alcoholic, if you can. 

Ouch! Pretty harsh diagnosis, considering you have never seen him in
person. It sounds more like he is the average, newly arrived college
student. I agree with you that alcohol is very unlikely to produce any
insights in most people.  But consider, if one has had a VERY uptight
childhood, that first drink might unleash characteristics hidden for
20 years.  In this sense, if the experience is treated intelligently,
then yes, awareness is expanded.  This is the way that some people
have reacted to hallucinogens. EVERY experience can be used to expand
awareness. Of course, there are the concomitant problems if one uses
chemical means to alter consciousness. The risk of addiction, the use
of the chemical as an escape, the damage to the physical body.  Any
psychoactive chemical has an analogue that is produced in the body,
which is why they are psychoactive, and any drug experience can be
experienced without drugs.
There are many paths to the one goal. Some just take a little longer.
:-) 
			-Lorenzo
-- 
"The Hell Law says that Hell is reserved      ***************************
exclusively for them that believe in it.      *	Lorenzo Farris           
Further, the lowest Rung in Hell is 	      *	farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu
reserved for them that believe in it on the   ***************************
supposition that they'll go there if they
don't" -Honest Book of Truth; the Gospel According to Fred, 3:1
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4598 alt.alien.visitors:7258 sci.skeptic:17655
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 06:32:44 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <67067@cup.portal.com> <1992Oct9.002748.11955@fulcrum.oz.au>

Dear Smart People: Boy, what a bunch of comments. Well, I never. It seems
like for some people one time is not enough. Maybe some other people
have been reading Kebo too long. Will someone be so kind as to explain
how to understand what he is saying. I love him and his information but
it's hard for me to understand. Maybe I'm missing something. This is 
not a flame Kebo. I guess I need enlightenment.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 01:09:05 GMT

In article <67473@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
|> Dear Smart People: Boy, what a bunch of comments. Well, I never. It seems
|> like for some people one time is not enough. Maybe some other people
|> have been reading Kebo too long. Will someone be so kind as to explain
|> how to understand what he is saying. I love him and his information but
|> it's hard for me to understand. Maybe I'm missing something. This is 
|> not a flame Kebo. I guess I need enlightenment.
|> John Winston.
?????

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Sexuality & Religion
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:10:51 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <Yeqrdg_00iV3Q8T4Q6@andrew.cmu.edu>, ws1q+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Perrin Slease) writes:
: 
: Thank you for taking the time to respond, Ed.  What you say makes sense.
:  But I can understand where John and Arnold are hung up too.  If you go
: deep within yourself to find the door to God, aren't you in reality
: trusting in your own efforts to reach [the ambiguous] "Godhead."  What
: Lorenzo and John (and I) would say is that you are denying Jesus death
  ^^^^^^^
I might say this, but I probably wouldn't, not being a Christian.

: in our stead as the only way our relationship with God could be
: reconciled.  Now I guess the problem is that some don't feel we need to
: be reconciled but that we sort of simply lost touch with ourselves
: somehow or have forgotten or haven't realized/developed into our full
: potential.  But I don't see how a follower of Christ (a Christian) could
: say that.  As you can tell, I'm confused still...   

I think you are also a little confused about who might say what in
this group :-)
				-Lorenzo


				
-- 
"The Hell Law says that Hell is reserved      ***************************
exclusively for them that believe in it.      *	Lorenzo Farris           
Further, the lowest Rung in Hell is 	      *	farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu
reserved for them that believe in it on the   ***************************
supposition that they'll go there if they
don't" -Honest Book of Truth; the Gospel According to Fred, 3:1
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth)
Subject: Re: A Course In Miracles / Reincarnation
Keywords: A Course In Miracles
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:08:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.093915.1573@ntb.ch> milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes:

>I remember that Jesus said, insisted in fact, that John the Baptist was the 
>reincarnation of Isiah. (Matthew 11, 15 confirms this, but I believe there is 
>a better quote somewhere.)

Then you'd better find it, since the above verse says nothing of the kind.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4664 alt.alien.visitors:7338 alt.religion.kibology:4169
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 23:22:47 EDT
From: Joe Carlson <JKC3@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Distribution: world

In article <67397@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com says:

>Dear Fellow Truth Seekers: It is my purpose to tell you what I know
>and have learned about Bigfoot otherwise known as Sasquatch.
>  The first I heard about BF (Bigfoot) came in the form of a story
>told to me by my teacher and Guru, Merele Fagot. It seemed that a
>person had reported that he had been feeding a hairy creature in his
>backyard of his ranch in one of the NW states of the USA.  This thing
>was the normal 8 feet tall 650 lbs. of walking stalking muscle. A lady
>reporter had enlisted the services of a psychic lady and they came in
>contact with the BF in the rancher's backyard. The BF immediately
>by telepathy said to the telepathic lady, "Why do you people want to
>hurt me?"  The lady then said by telepathy, "What do you mean you big
                                              ========================

>lug? I couldn't hurt you if I tried."  The BF then told his story.
=====================================


Oh yea, Like someone would really say "BIG LUG" telepathically and
Bigfoot would understand it.....You're goofy enuff to run for Office!

>End of Part 1.
>John Winston.
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Becoming aware
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:49:36 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1bcc5jINNacp@ef2007.efhd.ford.com>, smd@sl0091.srl.ford.com (Steve Dahmen) writes:
: 
: In article <Oct.12.08.16.32.1992.20987@ruhets.rutgers.edu>, farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) writes:
: :
: :I am one of the 99%.  Please explain what you have achieved and how
: :through the use of alcohol. 
: :Also, suppression of emotions has little to do with meditation.
: 
: No?  I'd say that many eastern traditions teach outright avoidance of
: emotional expression along with their meditative practice, so in Earth
: culture, I'd say there is a connection.  Fortunately, there are some
: traditions that incorporate emotions healthily into meditation.

I did not mean to imply that there are not some traditions that think
suppression of emotion is a fine and spiritual thing. But if one does
not own their emotions and work with them openly, well I think they
will by tying up a little too much energy to really be meditating and
not just sitting there chanting or whatever. But maybe I have a more
narrow definition in mind of what meditation really is.
: 
: :Someone may think it does, but I will bet they have a pretty tough
: :time meditating, let alone living.
: 
: I definately do, and my meditations are wonderful :-)  In fact, the
: more

Huh? I meant some think suppression of emotions goes with meditation,
and I don't think you definitely do think that too, unless I have
misread the rest of your writings.

: I work with my emotional expression, the DEEPER and FARTHER I can go 
: in my meditation.  Fact.
: 
: :			-Lorenzo
: 
: Steve.
-- 
"The Hell Law says that Hell is reserved      ***************************
exclusively for them that believe in it.      *	Lorenzo Farris           
Further, the lowest Rung in Hell is 	      *	farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu
reserved for them that believe in it on the   ***************************
supposition that they'll go there if they
don't" -Honest Book of Truth; the Gospel According to Fred, 3:1
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4689 alt.alien.visitors:7387 sci.skeptic:17878