HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ans0@aber.ac.uk (Austin Newton Shackles)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: cardkey system advice?
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:10:28 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <Bt5JvH.Hs4.1@cs.cmu.edu> cbs+@cs.cmu.edu (Clauss Strauch) writes:
>
>	We have some folks here who are setting up a small lab and are 
>worried about security.  They are thinking about installing some sort of 
>cardkey system. At a minimum, this system would keep track of the times at 
>which people enter the lab and allow for expiration of cards.
>
>	Unfortunately, nobody here has any experience at setting up such a
>thing. Does anybody out there have advice on such issues as how much a system
>like this should cost, particular pitfalls to watch out for, warnings or
>recommendations 'bout vendors, etc?
>
>	Any advice would be appreciated.
>					-- Clauss Strauch
>                                           cbs+@edrc.cmu.edu

hmmmm i dont have any direct knowledge of insatlling them, but i know someone 
who was involved in interfacing a chubb crad-key system to a bbc micro 
(!)...he might rewmeber summat about it. the chubb system( i've seen several 
here in the uk) uses an infra-red reader with a bar-coded card(if you hold the
card up to a stong light source with a worthwhile red content, you can see the
coding along the edge.

also, several of the uk banks have started installing cardlocks on the outside
door, so people can get to cash machines in the lobby, these read your bank 
card (magnetic) - interestingly they don't seem to be specifically coded, 
almost any card of the correct physical format seems to open them, even my AA 
membership card...more interestingly, if i put the AA card into the cash 
machine it gives me a choice of languages to use, then when i select english 
it asks me for a personal number...i haven't got it right yet, but assuming i 
did and it let me have money, i wonder where it'd come from?
would it appear on my membership renewal maybe??

hohum...


-- 
   Austin Newton Shackles   |   Why do I get this feeling these days that
   ans0@uk.ac.aberystwyth   |   life is like going up the down escalator?
   DoD#0467 1981 Z440 Ltd   |           My opinions are just that   
+++ Signature Virus [.sig] removed from /mntda/base/aa_az/ans0/.signature
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,misc.consumers
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Was this a ripoff?
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 05:46:13 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <BsxzBp.I8L@hatch.socal.com>  richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg) writes:
>    5 new locks @ $95(!) because the originals were too old to be rekeyed.
>                         Is this possible?

Yes, if the cylinder is worn, you want to replace it to prevent lockouts.

What kind of locks, and what was replaced?  Did he just replace a cylinder,
or the entire lock?  Pick resistant cylinders cost a lot more than ordinary
cylinders, which cost more than cheap builder's hardware.

>    A few extra keys (don't know how many.)

High-security locks generally cost more to have the keys duplicated.

>    Install the new locks.

How much work?  How much time?

> Is $800 plus reasonable for this?  Was she cheated?

The best way to determine this would probably go to another locksmith in
the same area, describe the work that was done, and ask for an estimate
to do it.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
From: dchien@boole.seas.ucla.edu (David H. Chien)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Timed life keys - or keys that expire after MM minutes
Date: 22 Aug 92 16:17:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles


     Wouldn't it be great to have a key that would remember the ridges in
your master key.  It would use some sort of mechanism to push each tumbler
pin to the correctly configured hight when inserted, or would simply move
flat tiny bars to match the shape of the master key, emulating the master
key's ridges.  
     Programmed to 'remember' this shape for some period of time, you could
give this key out to car attendants, car washers, etc.  After the time 
that was programmed into the key has expired, the key would 'forget' the
shape, leaving it useless for future access.  So even if you forget to 
pick them up after loaning them out, they're no good.
     So do they exist?

     david :)   dchien@boole.seas.ucla.edu y
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Ted Wagner)
Subject: Re: My First Try
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:33:54 GMT

In article <Number deleted> [Name deleted out of respect for
privacy]

>
>my car), and whatever is in the movies.  So I decided to practice on a
>Plymouth Reliant because it was there.
>


	We are doing this practicing on our own cars, right?
Ethically, I hope this is what is occuring.  I like this newsgroup.
I want to learn about locks and locksmithing because my grandfather
was a locksmith for 60 years.  
	I don't want to see this newsgroup chopped at several sites
(at universities and companies) over administrative fears of rampant
theft.
	I am pretty sure everyone is honest. And I will not mention
previous posts or names as we do not want to start flame wars.

	I read the FAQ a few times since I ftp'd it.  Could we
add a clause about practicing on your own personal locks and equipment?
Thanks.  I really like this newsgroup...like I said, I would hate to
see it eliminated for unwarranted fear.  I assume everyone else shares
similar feelings.
	
	I don't mean to pry or pop bubbles...but I thought it should
be brought up...

-- 
"All my life's a circle, but I can't tell you why..."-- Harry Chapin
"Words to live by..."-- Bruce Springsteen on "Tribute to Harry Chapin"
-trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu   &    trwagner@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu-
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: paulb@harley.tti.com (Paul Blumstein)
Subject: Re: Lexus Locks
Organization: Are you kidding?
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:42:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.072139.27665@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> steve@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Steve Balogh (+61 3 565 4747)) writes:
+In article <1992Aug10.221603.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> zcookbruc@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
+>
+>There is a saying that goes:
+>	If the car thief knows what he's doing, and is determined
+>	to get your car, there isn't anything that'll stop him
+>	(Except maybe a cop camped in your car).
+
+The thief would probably be able to bribe the cop. :-(

In LA, they would shoot him.
____________________________________________________________________________
				I AM THE RNA!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul D. Blumstein, paulb@harley.tti.com, DoD #36, ABATE, AMA, HOG, KD6LAA
(note paulb@tti.com no longer works; paulb@ttidca.tti.com goes away soon)
            Transaction Technology, Inc., Santa Monica, CA
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: C0031018@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Johannes Heyer)
Subject: good tools and books for beginners
Organization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 11:01:49 GMT

Hi,
 
I tried to find a source for lock picking tools here in Germany but
had no luck. The same for books on locksmithing. :-(
 
A friend of mine takes part in a student exchange program with the
university of Toledo/Ohio. She could buy things in America
and send them to me. Unfortunately she even knows less about
locksmithing than I know ... if that is at all possible :-) So I
have to tell her EXACTLY what she should buy. The bad thing is that
I don't know either what is worth buying. I think I need at least
one or two books on the topic and a set of lock picking tools. I saw
the list of different pick sets and books in the faq but which of them
are really for beginners? What would you as a professional lock
picker recommend to a newbie? Oh, I'm sure you need to know what I
want to do to give me an advice: I want to be able to open normal
door locks and maybe it could be handy one day to know how to open
a car door but at the moment I won't concentrate on padlocks,
school lockers etc.
 
Thanks in advance, Tschuess
                           Johannes
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
   |\/\/\/|      Office:                         Private:
   |      |      Rechenzentrum der TU            Johannes Heyer
   |      |      z. Hd. Herrn Heyer              Brinkstrasse 4a
   | (o)(o)      Hans-Sommer-Strasse 65          Germany - 3303 Vechelde
   \      _)     Germany - 3300 Braunschweig     Phone: +49 5300 / 67 14
    | ,___|      Phone: +49 531 / 391-5555
    |   /        FAX:   +49 531 / 391-5549
   /____\        EMAIL: C0031018 @ DBSTU1.EARN
  /      \              c0031018 @ dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (134.169.1.1)
From: dude@losers.hacktic.nl
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Re: cardkey system advice?
Date: 21 Aug 92 12:13:03 GMT
Organisation: black mail inc.

In article  <1992Aug18.141028.13402@aber.ac.uk>, Austin Newton Shackles writes:

 A> also, several of the uk banks have started installing cardlocks on the 
 A> outside door, so people can get to cash machines in the lobby, these read 
 A> your bank card (magnetic) - interestingly they don't seem to be specifically
 A> coded, almost any card of the correct physical format seems to open them, 
 A> even my AA membership card...more interestingly, if i put the AA card into
 
 Those so called 'card-locks' on the lobby doors of ATM's are a joke!
 Most of them aren't card-readers at all, but just a slot with a microswitch
 in it. When you slide anything through (a card, a piece of paper, whatever),
 it opens. Security through obscurity..
From: dude@losers.hacktic.nl
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: How can I make my own tools and be self-sufficient?
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:29:28 GMT
Organisation: black mail inc.

robotron writes:

 S> I've called up MANY local locksmith stores and asked whether they sell 
 S> picks; none of them would consider selling their tools of trade. One of 
 S> them told me that I need to go to a locksmith school first before I can 
 S> carry lock picks.
 
 Don't bother with the locksmith stores; I've tried that also, and only found
 one (1) store owner who knew a bit more about locks than how to mount them.
 In America you can order the picks (there was a posting about some adresses
 a while ago), altough you'll sometimes have to sign a form saying something
 like 'I'm a nice guy and learning to be a locksmith, I'm NOT a crook'.

 S> After all these troubles, it seems to me that I have to be self-sufficient.
 S> I would like to ask whether anyone has made his or her own picks and 
 S> wrenches before, and how I can make my own tools so that I can practice.

 I've used and still home-made picks from the start. I also have commercial
 picks, but they aren't really needed. All you need is the knowledge, some
 sort of a pick, a tension wrench, and looooots of practice.
 For my tension wrenches I normally use strips of metal I buy from a hobby-
 shop. I also have a kind of an universal tension-wrench made of a piece of
 music-wire folded in a V-form and stuck in a tube.
 It looks a bit like this:
  tube: ______________
          ===============//  <--- v-shaped musicwire
        --------------
 I have made picks from sheet metal, knives, rulers and sewer-brushes.
 If you're seriously interested, spend a few bucks on a book about 
 picking and picks. It will save you a lot of time and effort.
 The books of Eddy the Wire, although a bit shadowy and incomplete, can
 give you a lot of starting info. (Still, the books are a bit weird, I mean,
 'Eddy the Wire' ? Come on! ).
 Success,
 
             TD
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Sunday, 16 Aug 1992 13:37:23 EDT
From: <IO10184@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: A question about safes......

Hi All

    While the subject of safes is onthe table I would like to
ask a question that has been in my head for awhile. When I
go to the local credit union to deposit a check etc, I can't
help but notice their safe sitting unobtrusively in the corner.
The safe is usually sitting open so that the inside wall of the
door is facing outwards (towards me). This is my question, I can
just make out a transparent rectangle on the inside panel of the
safe, it seems to have a couple dials behind it, do these dials
show the combination to the safe????I have a hard time believing
that they would be so lax, but what else could it be?

          Thanks for any info,
                 Pat
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: rbean@netcom.com (William Chen)
Subject: Sesame Locks
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 01:21:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

	I've had this big brass lock from Sesame for a while now, and
can no longer remember the 4 digit combination.  I've tried dialin
from 000 up, but it gets very tedious by the time you get to 200 or so.

	Is there a faster way to open it, and reset the combination?


-Wil
From: ltf@ncmicro.lonestar.org (Lance Franklin)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Lexus Locks
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:43:32 GMT
Organization: NC Microproducts, Inc.

In article <1992Aug10.221603.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> zcookbruc@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
}In article <cuXyoB1w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org>, bbs.ftiernan@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Frank Tiernan) writes:
}> I was wondering about those remote keys Lexus uses on its car. I was
}> Thinking it would be possible to make sort of a frequency scanner based 
}> on the range of frequencies from a sample group of keys. Then when you
}> find a door you want to open you point the scanner at it and it cycles 
}> through frequencies. Is this reasonable or would it take to long to cycle 
}> through all the frequencies? This was just a thought i had and am 
}> interested if any others had thought of this or implemented it.
}>       -Frank
}
}The problem with the delay is that the frequency used ~301Mhz is
}used in almost all remote controll applications and therfore a lot
}of singals can come in on that frequency. A delay of 2 Seconds would
}make a box like that impractical.

Seems to me a simpler solution would be using a receiver and some form of
recording device.  The thief spots the car they desire to steal, hangs
around about quitting time with a briefcase containing a receiver and
a recorder concealed within.  The owner shows up, actuates the remote,
and the combination gets recorded.  The next day, the thief shows up
with a programmable homemade transmitter programmed with the code,
presses the button, and voila, the car is gone.

Since, from what I understand, the theft of high-dollar cars is often
done by multi-person "run-like-a-business" car theft rings, and that
cars are frequently "staked out" in order to determine the best time
and place to steal them (so that the theft ring has the max time before
the owner notices the theft), it seems like this procedure would be
quite possible.  Most likely, the interception of the code would be done
by one person and the theft, the next day, by another while the first
is staking out the next days target.

Any problems with this scheme?

Lance


-- 
Lance T. Franklin            +----------------------------------------------+
(ltf@ncmicro.lonestar.org)   | "You want I should bop you with this here    |
NC Microproducts, Inc.       |    Lollipop?!?"                 The Fat Fury |
Richardson, Texas            +----------------------------------------------+
From: ans0@aber.ac.uk (Austin Newton Shackles)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Lexus Locks
Date: 15 Aug 92 21:38:36 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth


 zcookbruc@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
>+>
>+>There is a saying that goes:
>+>	If the car thief knows what he's doing, and is determined
>+>	to get your car, there isn't anything that'll stop him
>+>	(Except maybe a cop camped in your car).

hmmmm well the other day I found that all the keys on my key-ring that will 
actually go into the driver's doorlock on my car will unlock it...

but then, no-ones seriously likely to want to steal it anyway...

mebbe i'll have to make a clever hiding place for the stereo tho'...


-- 
   Austin Newton Shackles   |   Why do I get this feeling these days that
   ans0@uk.ac.aberystwyth   |   life is like going up the down escalator?
   DoD#0467 1981 Z440 Ltd   |           My opinions are just that   
+++ Signature Virus [.sig] removed from /mntda/base/aa_az/ans0/.signature
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: owen@olympus.arc.nasa.gov..arc.nasa.gov (Owen S. Nishioka)
Subject: Re: Telephones
Organization: Nasa-Ames Research Center
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 15:44:56 GMT

In article <BtBKxp.JLD@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> cmarsigl@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Klif Marsiglio) writes:
>Anyone ever pick a pay telephone??? I never was able to get one open no matter
>what we did and we finally had to shoot it open :) (It was a friends, he brought
>it from home -- I would never run down a telephone booth just to steal a 
>telephone :)
>
>Klif M.
>
I have heard, though I don't know if it's still accurate, that according
to the FBI, only one person was ever know to break into pay phones.  He
has since been caught - and I think he had some sort of special key that
he had made after seeing the actual key.  Apparently it is not something
most people would/could do.

My understanding is that you can't open one, in the conventional sense.
Correct me if I'm wrong.


-----------------------------------------------------------
_|_|_|   _|    _|    owen@olympus.arc.nasa.gov
_|  _|   _|_|  _| 
_|  _|   _|  _|_|    -These are my personal views...
_|_|_|   _|    _|     After all, who else would want them!
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: misc questions
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 22:40:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Aug15.183824.18885@athena.cs.uga.edu>  aharris@athena.cs.uga.edu (Austin Harris) writes:
>
> What is that double circular thing on the bottom of the lock
> Does it allow one to re-key the lock?

Yup.  Open the lock, and look down the hole where the shackle goes in.
There'll be a screw head at the bottom.  Unscrew that to release the
figure-8 piece that holds the cylinder in.

> how difficult are these padlocks to pick, say compared to a master
> 5 pin padlock (no. 3)?

The newer Americans use pins with rings cut out at the edges.  Makes
them *much* harder to pick.

> could someone tell me what percent of pin-tumbler padlocks and
> deadbolts you end up raking as oppossed to picking with a hook,

Most are a combination - start out raking, then pick the last one or two pins.

> one final question - I seem to having a re-occuring problem picking
> tumblers because it seems that I can "break" one or two pins but
> after that the others won't break (in any sequence), the remaining
> three pins seem to just be content being pushed up with their
> springs pushing them right back down again

Maybe one of the pins you picked really isn't at the shear line - e.g.,
with the American, it could be caught at one of the rings.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: Safes
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 13:39:11 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

I finally ended up buying a fire safe. For personal use, I decided
against a burgular-proof safe for a couple reasons.

First, most of my valuables are not small collectibles. For example,
I have an expensive home computer, an expensive guitar, and expensive
pet parrot, etc. A burgular-proof safe does nothing for me here.

Also, all I really care about is organizing and protecting from fire
some important personal papers that have no cash value to a thief.
Fire safes do have combination locks, and some can be bolted down.
This is sufficient for me.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths)
Subject: Re: Lexus Locks
Cc: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 00:35:35 +0000


> solution is to use a PK system like RSA, but that requires a two way
> link with the electronic key.


If you're interested in this type of device, this month's Scientific
American has a piece on it.
From: ov@saturn.cs.swin.oz.au (Owen Veenstra)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Paper clips
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:32:06 GMT
Organization: Swinburne Institute of Technology, Hawthorn, Victoria

In article <Bsw5CE.2xC@wrs.com>, gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven) writes:
|> In article 121@wrs.com, I wrote:
|> >A couple of weeks ago, someone posted some ASCII graphics describing
|> >how to pick a lock using two paper clips.  I printed the article but
|> 
|> The article was written by Doug Jones on 20 Jul 92...I'll email a copy
|> to all requestors, unless 1) Doug objects, or 2) he reposts the


   I, too, would be interested in receiving such an article.

   I thank you in advance if you email such an aritcle to me.

   my email address :   ov@saturn.cs.swin.oz.au


                          Yours,

                          The Mighty O.
From: randys@think.com (Randall Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: damage to locks by picking
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:29:46 GMT
	<1992Aug18.070114.25616@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: turing.think.com
In-reply-to: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com's message of Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:01:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.070114.25616@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>   From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
>   Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
>   References: <1992Aug10.131757.20752@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
>   Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:01:14 GMT
>
>   bx690@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Mirza) writes:
>   : 
>   : Hi,
>   : Just wondered if picking locks for practice (say your front door)
>   : could damage the lock in some way? 
>
>   Nope. Unless you pick it using a hammer. Much faster and easier, but
>   a lot noisier.
>
>   Bill

    Unless I'm very confused, this is incorrect.  There is the possibility
  of damaging a lock by picking it, especially if you aren't very good at
  picking.  Specifically, spring-steel is a lot harder than brass (which
  pins are usually made of), and can wear it away, changing the lengths of
  the pins, and hence (eventually) the proper working of the lot.  Raking
  does this a lot quicker than pin-at-a-time picking (it's sorta like
  trying to saw the pins lengthwise :-}), which is why purists argue in
  favor of pin-at-a-time picking (it also requires more skill, and hence is
  higher status :-}).  

    This shouldn't be a major problem unless you are having major amounts
  of lack of sucesses--try to use finesse rather than brute force (pay
  attention to what your fingers are telling you, etc).  Signs that you're
  doing something wrong include brass dust in the lock and minutes of
  raking without any impression of progress.  If either of these is true,
  stop and buy a practice lock from the store instead of finding a subtle
  way of locking yourself out of your house/apartment.

							-- Randy

Randall Smith          "The best thing that you've ever done for me
randy@ai.mit.edu        Is to help me take my life less seriously.
                        It's only life, after all."	-- The Indigo Girls
--
Randall Smith          "The best thing that you've ever done for me
randy@ai.mit.edu        Is to help me take my life less seriously.
                        It's only life, after all."	-- The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing