HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Bruce.Scott@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bruce Scott)
Subject: Re: Gluten content of "unusual" grains
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 23:09:14 GMT

cjross@bbn.com (Chris Ross) writes:
>With respect to gluten-free diets, most of my nutrition textbooks
>point to wheat, rye, oats, and barley as the "bad guys" and to rice
>and corn as the "good guys." (etc...)

Sorry, I may have missed this since I don't have time to read long
posts. Could you/someone pass on the gist of why this is supposed to be
a problem. Your 4 "bad guys" are 4 of the 5 I eat (whole, raw) every
morning.

Gruss,
Dr Bruce Scott                             The deadliest bullshit is
Max-Planck-Institut fuer Plasmaphysik       odorless and transparent
bds at spl6n1.aug.ipp-garching.mpg.de                 -- W Gibson



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Re:Vegetarian diets
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:03:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep25.164313.7088@iscsvax.uni.edu> howard@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>Most meat contains antibiotics and hormones. Has anyone done any 
>studies as to the long-term effects of eating meat from livestock
>who have been given large amounts of antibiotics and hormones? 

Why don't you look at the UDSA guidelines for the amount of such
residues allowable?  These residues are really very low, present
in sub-pharmacological amounts.  There are a lot of more serious
bogeymen to worry about, IMHO.

>I know that there are some problems in taking antibiotics in that one
>builds up a tolerance to them, and antibiotics given for an illness
>would then be less effective. 

You don't build up tolerances to antibiotics, but bacteria may.
The problem with feeding animals antibiotics has little to
do with residues in meat or dairy products, but rather with
the bacteria which have passed through the animal in such an
antibiotic-laced environment only to find themselves back in the
outside world.  Strains of resistant salmonella which are dangerous
to humans and difficult to treat with off-the-shelf antibiotics
may have come from such practices.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu
Subject: RE: Milk Press Conference
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 14:26:29 GMT

I'll play devil's advocate here, even though I am not an advocate of diary:

In a previous article, wheeler@super.org (Ferrell S. Wheeler) wrote:
>
>DIABETES:  Of 142 diabetic children tested in a recent study, 100% had high
>levels of an antibody to a cow's milk protein.  It is believed that these
>antibodies destroy the insulin-producing cells of the pancreas.
>

What does it mean "it is believed"?  Any proof?
Did they look for antibodies of other foods in children?
Are there diabetic children who never drank milk?
P.s. how do children in countries where milk is not easy to obtain get their
calcium needs met?

>
>CALCIUM:  Green leafy vegetables such as kale are as good or better than
>milk as calcium sources.
>

Isn't it true that minerals are harder to assimilate from vegetable sources?

> 
>CONTAMINANTS:  Milk is frequently contaminated with antibiotics and excess
>Vitamin D.  Of 42 milk samples recently tested, only 12% were within the
>expected range of Vitamin D content.  Of 10 samples of infant formula, 7 had
>more than twice the Vitamin D content reported on the label, and 1 had more
>than four times the label amount.
>

A local milk supplier was recently found to have Vitamin D content of 100s of
times the listed value.  Only 1 or 2 people claimed to have health related
problems due to it, although it was probably like that for years.

> 
>LACTOSE:  Many people of Asian and African heritage are unable to digest the
>milk sugar, lactose, which then causes diarrhea and gas. The lactose sugar
>when it is digested, releases galactose, a simple sugar which is linked to
>ovarian cancer and cataracts.
>

Is the latter sentence true?  I would be interested in knowing.  Do people in
non-diary cultures not get cataracts?

> 
>ALLERGIES:  Milk is one of the most common causes of food allergy. Often the
>symptoms are subtle and may not be attributed to milk for some time.
>

So are corn, eggs, fish, nuts, and wheat!

I should mention that a local allergist did make the point one time that
allergy testing of young children is not done enough these days. 

Mark
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From:  (relgov)
Subject: Calorie Question
Organization: Motorola Land Mobile Products Sector
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:05:49 GMT
Followup-To: sci.med.nutrition

I have, like many people, been counting calories in the foods we eat.  The
facts as have been told and documented a thousand times is that a gram of
fat contains 9 calories (incidentally, is it exactly 9 or a fraction above
or below), and that carbohydrates and proteins contain 4 calories per gram
(again, exactly?).  That's it.  All calories come from these sources.  The
rest of the weight of any food is presumably fiber? that does not get
digested.  My question has to do with alcohol.  What is it?  Is it a fourth
source of calories?  I once heard that there are 7 calories per gram, but
I'm not sure.  I ask this because if you read a beer can, a typical listing
of content says something like 0 grams fat, 0 grams protein, 2 or 3 grams
carbohydrate, yet there are over 100 calories in the beer!  Are there any
other sources of calories besides these?  Thanks.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: Re:Vegetarian diets
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 01:11:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep27.194216.15908@inmet.camb.inmet.com> mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
>In <1992Sep25.164313.7088@iscsvax.uni.edu> howard@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>>I'm a vegetarian (vegan) partly for this reason. The risks of missing
>>some "unknown nutrient" in meat versus being sure of not consuming 
>>antibiotics and hormones in meat products seems minimal. And yes, I 
>>do take a B12 supplement. 
>
>Do you worry about the pesticides and fertilizers used to grow your
>fruits, veggies, and grains?  Do you worry about the diseases you can
>pick up from mis-handled produce?  Eating Well did a story within the 
>last year or so about a mini-epidemic of hepatitus due to a contaminated 
>shipment of lettuce in the Nashville area (I think--it was one of the 
>Tennessee cities).

Sounds like an anomaly to me. The vast majority of people who get food
poisoning get it from flesh or animal products.

The liklihood of getting food poisoning from lettuce is pretty slim.
The stats I hear on poultry (for example) are that an extremely high
percentage is contaminated with salmonella.

I have never gotten sick from a salad bar.

>
>I am not anti-veggie, and I agree with any diet that pushes fruits,
>veggies, whole grains, and reduced fat intake.  But isn't trying to find
>safe veggies and fruits (by growing your own or buying organic) just as 
>hard as getting safe meat?
>
Fruit and veggies can be washed. It is hard to wash the bacteria out
of meat, eggs or cheese.

As far as toxicity goes, meat and animal products are far and away
more hazardous than fruits and veggies.

rf

>Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
>mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
>...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
From: pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk (Philippa Hogben)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Milk v/s Soymilk
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:01:52 GMT
Reply-To: pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

In article 7226@iscsvax.uni.edu, howard@iscsvax.uni.edu () writes:
>The ingredient list is:
>
>Filtered water, whole organic soybeans, brown rice, water, vanilla, 
>tricalcium phosphate, organic expeller pressed canola oil, sea salt, 
>carageenan, vitamin A palmitate, vitamin D2, Riboflaven (B2).
>
>The nutritional breakdown is:
>
>Serving size: 8 oz. 
>Calories: 150
>Protein: 6 grams
>Carbohydrate: 20 grams
>Fat: 5 grams
>Percent calories from fat: 30
>Polyunsaturated fat: 3 grams
>Saturated fat: 1 gram
>Sodium: 120 mg
>Potassium: 265 mg
>
>Percent of USDA Recommended Daily Allowances:
>Protein : 10    Vitamin A: 10    Vitamin C: 2
>Vitamin D2: 25  Thiamin: 10      Riboflavin : 25 
>Niacin: 6       Calcium: 30      Iron: 10  
>Phosphorous: 25 Magnesium: 10
>
>
>I believe that the nutritional content of this soymilk is comparable
>to that of milk, though the calcium content is due to supplementation. 

Is it possible to buy "skimmed" soymilk? I bought some soymilk recently to see what
it was like and I thought it tasted absolutely vile. I think part of the problem was 
that I found it too "creamy". I checked the carton later - the soymilk had 2.1g fat
per 100g whereas the milk I normally use (described as "Virtually fat free") has only 
0.1g fat per 100g.

Secondly, the carton I had listed the ingredients as only water and soybeans.

Philippa.

---
Philippa Hogben   pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk  (Reverse if mailing from Janet)
Any mistakes are mine, all mnie.

I am not a .sig virus. I am a free bug.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Have you heard of this?????
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:03:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct5.170349.19325
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Oct5.121701.392@lrc.edu> dorham_r@lrc.edu writes:
>I would like to know if anyone has heard of chelation therapy.  If
>anyone has, could you tell me something about it?  Thanks!!!!

Well, there are two kinds of "chelation therapy": are you interested in
the bozoid one that people push to "treat" heart disease, or the legitimate
therapy used to remove heavy metals like lead and mercury from the body in
cases of poisoning?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: beynonrj@uxb.liv.ac.uk (Dr. R.J. Beynon)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Stress & Vitamins (was Re: Incontinence)
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:35:46 GMT
Organization: The University of Liverpool
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Timothy Freeman (tsf@CS.CMU.EDU) wrote:
: In article <BvBx9I.B3s@csc.liv.ac.uk> beynonrj@uxb.liv.ac.uk (Dr. R.J. Beynon) writes:
: 
:    Timothy - what do you mean 'vitamins get used up by stress' ?
:    for water-soluble B vitamins it is more likely that intake is
:    reduced, which, when combined with normal metabolism and excretion 
:    of products leads to a marginal deficiency. 
: 
: I don't have the relevant information on hand to support what I've
: been saying about stress & B vitamins, so it should be regarded as
: hearsay until and unless someone opens some standard vitamin reference
: book to check it out.
: 
Which I've done - 
:    But stress cannot 'use up' vitamins - only dietary imbalance, and
:    maybe some dietary excesses can do that (e.g. B6 needs increase on
:    a high protein diet).:

[ ref deleted]
: 
: (I'll happily grant that this reference is oblique.)
: 
[yup :-) ]

: Can you support your claim that vitamin needs do not depend on
: environmental stress?  If you aren't speaking off of the top of your
: head, this might be worth a trip to the library to check out.
: --

Sure, but shouldn't that have happened before the first post?  ;-)
The original post wasn't about 'environmental stress' - but in any case,
I really think we need to define the term more closely-

e.g. Lovesickness = depressed appetite = lowered intake
     Long distance flights = altered bowel function = modified metabolism

could be considered as stress-related changes in vitamin metabolism

Speaking in metabolic terms (only, for the purpose of this post) pregnancy,
lactation, and maybe old age, count as conditions where vitamin intake/needs
change. These could be seen as metabolic stresses too.

But, to say that vitamins get used by stress is inadequate. How the 
the experimental study stress one group of human subjects, whilst controlling
their vitamin metabolism and measuring fluxes.

I'm not attacking, and I don't mean to be pedantic, but hearsay
is much more dangerous than scientific research, contrary to
popular belief ! :-)

Rob Beynon
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Vitamins:  How to Get the Right Mix?
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:53:57 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

From article <1992Sep21.135826.29196@mercury.cair.du.edu>, by kguinn@diana.cair.du.edu (Kip J. Guinn):

> Also--I have bad eyesight.  A common "urban legend" is that if I 
> were to consume a megadose of Vitamin A every day for a long
> period, my eyesight would improve.  But, large doses of A can be
> toxic, I've heard...  How much A is toxic?  And would it help?

This urban legend was started during WW2 as a cover story to explain
how the British fighter pilots were apparently able to see in the dark
-- they were using radar. And hey! -- did you ever see a rabbit
wearing glasses? It was hoped the Germans would start eating carrots
instead of checking out radar technology. Alas, they weren't that
gullible :-)
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: FIT FOR LIFE
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:53:34 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)

In article <v#9nm_#.strnlght@netcom.com>, strnlght@netcom (David Sternlight) writes:
>Matthew Wiener seems unable to see the distinction between "Scientifically
>refuted" and "gibberish and internal contradictions."

Recognizing the latter is certainly a case of the former.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: thom@cs.mun.ca (Thomas Clancy)
Subject: Info wanted
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:59:43 GMT

Greetings all,
 
   I have a friend that is quite physically active, she uses a 
stair master, runs, swims and does aerobics for about 2 or more
hours a day (for the last few years), and she is far from over
weight. The problem is, she doesn't seem to have any real 
'apparent?' muscle tone. ie: She looks slim but to touch she
feels [the best word I can think of] 'flabby?' She is wondering
if there is anything she can do to 'firmup?' ? She is 5'8, about
125-135 lbs [my best guess] and 33 years of age. About the only
thing I could think of that *MAY* be preventing her from gaining/
keeping muscle tone/firmness is that she is a vegaterian (sp?),
and thus eats no meat. I told her I would ask the NET to find
out for sure. If it is do to her diet, can someone suggest some
foods that would fit in with her lifestyle (being a vegi)?
No 'weight gainer' type chemicals please, if meat is a 
factor what type would be best?

Thomas
From: davef@cs.ubc.ca (David Finkelstein)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Buzz in your fruit juice
Date: 1 Oct 1992 17:29:04 -0700
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: guinness.cs.ubc.ca
Keywords: alcohol, fruit juice

In article <1992Oct1.233354.28968@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca> tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) writes:
>> Can any one tell me the amount (% by volume) of alcohol in commercially
>> available fruit juices. .. 
>
>Very little.  But, if you add some sugar, yeast and let it stand
>for a few days, it will increase significantly  :-)

And after you've made your hard cider, don't forget to freeze it.

--- Dave


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
David Finkelstein               |"Nothing comes out of the faucet
University of British Columbia  | but strawberry jelly.  I guess 
davef@cs.ubc.ca                 | that's how rich millionaires live."
From: tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Milk is dangerous?
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:06:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: U.TSF.92Oct2120624
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: tsf@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <2OCT92.15151518@nerus.pfc.mit.edu> mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu writes:
   In a previous article, blair@salem.intel.com (Guy Blair) wrote:
   >I heard a TV News report last night that after you are 1 year old,
   >milk is quite unhealthy.  One report said, what do you expect, it
   >is designed for calves?  What's the story here?  
   Does that mean that we should only eat foods that are designed for us?
   Can someone please list them for me?  Thanks.

Ask and ye shall receive:

---Begin List---
	     List of Foods Designed for Human Consumption

1. Mother's Milk (For use by infants only.)
---End List---

Hmm, that was short.

:-)

--
Tim Freeman <tsf@cs.cmu.edu>    CompuServe ID 71045,2267 checked occasionally.
When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun.
Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all.
From: beynonrj@uxb.liv.ac.uk (Dr. R.J. Beynon)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Cooking food alters protein
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:43:12 GMT
Organization: The University of Liverpool
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


Actually, I quite like this group, but it seems that there are two types
of readers/posters:

those who comment on books that tell them what to think, how to behave

those who read scientific literature that is rather more objective

Now, when you come to the eating habits of many people, objective research
is of  less value than in other fields of research. Which is why many of
the books purport to be a synthesis of scientific thought, and turn that
thought into a set of lifestyle guidelines.

So, we have the following:

Scientists who refrain from strong opinions,

Non-scientists who attempt to distil scientific wisdom,

Frauds who see an easy market and rip people off with garbage,

Most of the rest, who want to do the right thing by themselves
and their children, but who a) distrust scientists, b) don't have
the background, scientific skills, time or inclination to understand
the burgeoning mass of scientific research and c) are suckered in by
people who offer answers in a readily digestible form (pun intended ;-) )

What are needed are books that are scientifically correct, calm
and which indicate where there is controversy. This is a tall order,
for any writer, but I would expect the author to have been trained,
formally, in scientific method, even if they are advocating some
age-old diet.

I haven't read this FfL book, and don't intend to. But, the scientific time
invested in confirming or denying the findings could, IMHO, be better
invested in a book such as I describe above.

A colleague of mine just ventured that now that the cold war is over,
diet will be the major anxiety factor for the upcoming generations. I
guess we see a bit of here :-)

Rob Beynon
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Subject: Re: Re:Vegetarian diets
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 19:42:16 GMT

In <1992Sep25.164313.7088@iscsvax.uni.edu> howard@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>I'm a vegetarian (vegan) partly for this reason. The risks of missing
>some "unknown nutrient" in meat versus being sure of not consuming 
>antibiotics and hormones in meat products seems minimal. And yes, I 
>do take a B12 supplement. 

Do you worry about the pesticides and fertilizers used to grow your
fruits, veggies, and grains?  Do you worry about the diseases you can
pick up from mis-handled produce?  Eating Well did a story within the 
last year or so about a mini-epidemic of hepatitus due to a contaminated 
shipment of lettuce in the Nashville area (I think--it was one of the 
Tennessee cities).

I am not anti-veggie, and I agree with any diet that pushes fruits,
veggies, whole grains, and reduced fat intake.  But isn't trying to find
safe veggies and fruits (by growing your own or buying organic) just as 
hard as getting safe meat?

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: richard@octel.com (Richard Karasik)
Subject: Re: Calorie Question
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:31:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.180549.22103@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> (relgov) writes:
>I have, like many people, been counting calories in the foods we eat.  The
>facts as have been told and documented a thousand times is that a gram of
>fat contains 9 calories (incidentally, is it exactly 9 or a fraction above
     Current reading indicates that considering the 
	 way we metablize it, its closer to 11 KCal - ie effectively.
>or below), and that carbohydrates and proteins contain 4 calories per gram
>(again, exactly?).  That's it.  All calories come from these sources.  The
>rest of the weight of any food is presumably fiber? that does not get
>digested.  My question has to do with alcohol.  What is it?  Is it a fourth
     Alcohol -again because of the way its metabolized should
	 be counted as a fat - but at what proof I havent figured out yet!

>source of calories?  I once heard that there are 7 calories per gram, but
>I'm not sure.  I ask this because if you read a beer can, a typical listing
>of content says something like 0 grams fat, 0 grams protein, 2 or 3 grams
>carbohydrate, yet there are over 100 calories in the beer!  Are there any
>other sources of calories besides these?  Thanks.

Richard


-- 
|UUCP  richard@octel.com                 VOICE (HEY YOU!) or 408 321 6372
| 
|             Speaker for the dead - among them:
|                 Liberty, Justice, Freedom
From: dfield@zeus.calpoly.edu (Dan Field (InfoSpunj))
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Prostate cancer and vegetarian diets.
Date: 27 Sep 92 07:58:20 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

In article <24SEP92.18063548@nerus.pfc.mit.edu> mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu writes:
>See NY Times  9/23/92 page C12 for a good article on Prostate cancer:
>
>In addition to being rich in nutrients that protect against cancer, vegetarian
>diets are associated with lower blood levels of testosterone than are diets
>based largely on meats and other animal foods.
>
>Mark

      Is this because vegetarian diets tend to be lower in fat?  Testosterone
is a lipid, right?  Does a lower overall intake of lipids reduce testosterone
levels?

-- 

                                -Daniel R. Field
                                 dfield@nike.calpoly.edu