From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Mullah, Ulama, Jinnah and Two Nation Theory
Date: 21 Dec 1992 13:50:10 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Dec19.024059.7854@seas.gwu.edu> srahman@seas.gwu.edu (Shafiq-ur Rahman) writes:
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I am using my friend's account to post this letter. This is my viewpoint.
>                                   Arshad Hussain(ahussain@prism.poly.edu)
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
:
:From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
:Subject: Re: Pakistan
:
::1: Orthodox Muslim ulemas (from Deoband...) mostly were sidlined
::   after 1857 because they decided  not to compromise with the British.
::   They realized that Muslims could not live harmoniously with the masters.
::   As they were out of power, they hid themselves in their madrassahs.
:
:When  'Islamic Empire'-- founded by Aurang Zaib that imposed Jazia 
     [irrelevant comments deleted]

::2: Sir Syed and like minded people opposed this policy of seclusion
::   of the general ulemas. They embarked on a more compromising path.
:
:Thanks God, he realized that Muslims MUST be educated in order to survive. 
:BTW, Syed Ahmad Khan never worked for Hindu-Muslim unity. He never joined
:Congress. Read his speeches.

Please, read the article carefully. Ulemas non-cooperated with the British
as is very clear from (1) above. Therefore (2)  mentions compromise
of Sir Syed with Britishers, not with Hindus. Please read carefully before
replying.

:
::3: Generation raised under Sir Syed lost sight of the reasons of 
::   (i) why ulemas didn't compromise, (ii) why Sir Syed compromised.
:
:This makes no sense whatsoever.

How can it make sense, when you took (2) as compromising with Hindus, instead
of Britishers!!

:
::4: Therefore, we saw between 1900-20 efforts by Mohammad Ali Jauhar and
::   co to follow Turkey's youthful march towards modernism.
:
:You must be joking. Khalafat Movement, for example, was to turn clock back: 
:foolish act of short-vision by a sincere mullah. Do you know Jinnah opposed it?

Again jumping to conclusions. 
Where did I say Jinnah was for or against Khilafat movement?
Clearly I am distinguishing two types of groups in (4) and (5) below
that were  mentioned as the generation succeeding SIr Syed in (3).

:
::5: Some of the leaders like Jinnah, etc in the mean time went 
::   to the extreme and became believer of HIndu-Muslim unity.
:
: Compare (5) to (1) and see which one is 'extreme'.

If (1) appears extreme  w.r.t (5), then it naturally
follows that (5) appears extreme w.r.t (1). As I started from the
reference point of (1), you are simply saying what I am saying.
One was extreme w.r.t other!!!
:
::I said that Ulemas and Jinnah and co. were both believers of the
::same two nation theory. 
:
: Who were these 'ulama' ? Any names??? Any references??

These ulemas are the followers of those who disagreed with Sir Syed.
Please, read again (1) and (2). For details, see any book that describes
Muslim approaches after 1857. Not to leave you in suspense, I am talking
about the ulemas of Deoband, and desciples of Ashraf Ali Thanvi
 __ in line with Syed Ahmed Shaheed who
was martyred in 1821. This group  actually faught against British in 1857.
[Aside: Note that the generation following these ulemas of Deoband itself broke
away from the recluse as seen from orthodox ulemas of Nadava (Shibli Naumani, 
Syed Sulaiman Nadavi). Nadavis again came back into politics. 
Interestingly enough, ulemas of Nadavas and ulemas of Deoband, have now
merged together as seen from the prestige of Abul Hasan Ali Nadavi in both
camps.]. 
:
:Jinnah wanted to form a very loose federation --3 units. He was willing
:to compromise: less autonomy for larger land. Till  March 1947, that
:was his strategy. He used 'Pakistan' as a trump card to get concessions
:from Congress and the Raj. When he could not achieve his goals, he  even 
:asked Soherwardy to work for INDEPENDENT Bengal if Calcatta was included.
:That was the 2-Nation concept as Jinnah understood. How Mullah and Ulama 
:understood this concept,  you tell me.

Pick any book on Muslim Fiqh and read the places where they describe
 the concept of dar-ul-harab and dar-ul-islam!
:
::I already mentioned that ulemas had lost the national leadership of
::the Muslims. 
:
:When was mullah 'national leader' of muslims??

From Shah Waliulllah's time. Forgotten Maualana Ubaidullah Sindhi?
and his silken handkerchief movement?
When they led the revolt against British. They were the defacto leaders after
the spinelessness of the ceremonial Moguls.



Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18778 soc.culture.bangladesh:7076 soc.culture.indian:41938