HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: saeed@a.cs.okstate.edu (SAEED FAISEL)
Subject:  Banaam  "Karachi is the place to be ..."
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 21:02:16 GMT


KARACHI


Kabhi roz aatee thee chandnee kabhee roz mazdah-e-noor thaa
Woh karachi janay kahan chala jahan kaif kaif saroor thaa

Jahan gul thay ab wahan aag hay, kahan husn tha ab khak hay
Kabhee bazm-e-shoq thee char soo, ye qafas ke maskan-e-hoor thaa

Jahan phool khiltay thay raat din, wahan ahl-e-hukm hain sang zan
Parra khoon milta hay koo be koo jahan khooshbooan ka zahoor thaa

Yahan jo jahan say bhee aa-ay hay, woh saleeb samnay paay hay
Wahan bujh chalee hay nazar nazar, jahan shokh dil masroor thaa

				(incomplete ...)


(by   shahid mahmood shahid)


------------
Faisel Saeed

Computer Science Department,   Oklahoma State University,   Stillwater, OK 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    |_/       _ / o"         ( _\ /            .                   - \      
  _ //\      | | |    .       \_\\\        .                     //  \\--,  
 /_// /      | | |      .    / \ \\\ .                           \\         
/ // /_______|_|_|__________/_/_\ \_______________________________\\_______
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 WELL DONE   P  A  K  I  S  T  A  N  ! ! !        World Cup '92 Champions
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 

Faisel Saeed

Computer Science Department,   Oklahoma State University,   Stillwater, OK
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Curses, Beliefs of Mirza Qadiyani: Relationship with Bahais
Date: 12 Apr 1992 15:10:09 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Apr12.023153.28578@yuma.acns.colostate.edu> nr503637@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana) writes:
>
>Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (A.S.) WAS A Prophet, Nabi, Paighamber,
>Promised Messiah, Mahdi, and a reformer for the present age as predicted
>by the Holy Quran, Holy Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W), and other Holy Scriptures. 

Some one posted about the beliefs of Bahais.

I see very little difference between the approach of Bahaullah
and that of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, except that the former was closer
to Zorastrians and latter to Hinduism.( The writer failed to post the
"krisna" aspect of this person.)

It appears that they were trying to come up with a philosophy 
of "all-in-one". One which is acceptable to all the major religions.
It is another matter that all the religions which they were trying
to appease turned against them. From the experience of Bahais
it will not be very off the target to conclude that eventually
their status in the history of religions would be just another
"breakaway sect" reduced to the direct descendents. In Islamic history
it will become like a "druze" (?), Kharjis, Muatzillites,
Allawites, Bahais, Baathist and others!

(A food for thought. No flames intended. Just observing
cross-similarities between different breakaway sects)
From: vu0208@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Can science come back to Islam [Part 2]
Keywords: Be cool & sane.
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:54:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: newserve.1992Apr10.175400.14992
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton

In article <12128@tamsun.tamu.edu> gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:

>>What is this missing link? please elaborate.

>
>They refer to phenomena not yet discovered i.e., as soon as some astounding
>results/phenomena etc. is announced, all religious bodies immediately
>scramble to turn their noses up in the air saying 
>"Oh, but our scriptures discovered this many centuries ago". 
>It makes me feel like bonking their head with a rolled up newspaper and 
>screaming "then why the hell didn't you say so before". 
>

As far as i know Islam has never claimed to have discovered a
phenomenon, rather the the phenomenon being discovered gives the
validation to the text and message of God (Quran). Note that not a
single discovery or phenomenon of science has invalidated any part of
the Quran. I can bet on that!


>"which of the alternatives do you consider more credible? The 
>advanced civilization bit or the poets fantasizing bit about the 
>Ramayana?"

Look, by just talking or saying something beyong the current state of
time and world, one does not become "advanced civilization" however
neat the ideas be. But these ideas may be practical only if the
technology has advanced a bit or more thus we cannot call them
fantasies as well.


Then what should we call them!!

Puzzled!? :) 

Well this is how i resolve the situation if an scripture talks about
some futuristic sci-fi stuff (ie., materialistic things not phenomena)
which has later been turned out to be true then i would call it
logical pipe dreaming! else a wishful thinking.

Quran does not do either of the above, it gives signs, clues, and
warnings to think upon.


>But does my limited knowledge of the Quran render my discussions as 
>totally illogical or baseless ? 

no not at all, it will just make my job harder to enlighten you that
Quran is different from other books/scriptures.


>E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
>

regards.
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: The Qadiani/non-Qadiani war. Ceasefire ? Please.
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:51:06 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com
Originator: samaddar@orion

fmbutt@mrbt.sw.stratus.com (Farooq Butt) writes:

> ... In fact, "organized" religion has been one of the greatest, if not
> THE greatest civilizing force of mankind...
> .. conflicts are part and parcel of being HUMAN ..

IMHO, being civilized is also part and parcel of being HUMAN. Witness 
different civilizations who had quite different ideas about religion,
but neverthless were quite "civilized". The ancient Greeks, Romans, Arabs,
Chinese, Indians, etc. Most communities of humans have had kindness, empathy,
art, music, literature, and other "civilized" attributes along with the
brutal and barbaric attributes. 

The primary impact of "organized" religions is because of the "organizations"
they helped develop. Thus human endeavors could be undertaken on a grander
scale because of this organization. These endeavors could be civilized such
as building great pieces of architecture or they could be brutal like
campaigns of conquest, etc.

"Organized" religions were not the only sources of providing such grand
organizations. Political ideologies in modern times have served the same
purpose. And with similar results.

Sumitro
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Monday, 13 Apr 1992 04:58:01 EDT
From: Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry <32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: 'burqa and muslim women'
 <1992Apr6.141815.9509@sarah.albany.edu>
 <92098.05041332JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
 <1992Apr7.232206.21036@sarah.albany.edu> <1992Apr10.155316.30006@davidsys.com>

Salam Alaikum Muhtaram khuwateen: (if they are really, many people lie on net):

        'Pardah' Oh...cough...throat choak... 'bai pardah khawateen ek dosray t
o shabashi derahin hain'  'man tura haji baguyum tu mera haji bago'...'Kutch bh
i paigham Mohammed (PBUH) ka tughe pass nahi' ?

        'Main na manoo', it is something different ? Of course burqa is hindren
ce in pre-marital sex ??  In one of the hadiths narrated by Abu Hurira, Prophet
PBUH) said 'The woman whose smell goes to another male (na-mahram), will never
smell the Jannah'...  'Fatabro ya Ulil absar'  (O'those who have eyes, why do n
ot take lesson ) :

         On the day of Uhad one sahabi was eating dates and kuffars were attack
ing harshly on muslims, Prophet (PBUH) said, I am smelling jannah behind the mo
ntain Uhad.  The sahabi who was eating dates, questioned Prophet Mohammed(PBUH)
, is this fact, really, He said yes, then that sahabi (rzu) threw his dates asi
de, rushed towards enemy fighting and went inside the heart of the enemy alone.
After the battle of uhed when the dead bodies were collected there were 70 wou
nds on the body of that sahabi.  His name was Anas Bin Nazar.

          He never argued the validity of verses of Quran and hadiths ?  This i
s iman and submission.  He never said 'if and but' :

         'Ye nadan girparay sajdey main jab waqte qiyam aiya'
From: mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza)
Subject: Re: IS THIS YOUR ISLAM? (Re: Through QADIANIS away)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:17:38 GMT

nr503637@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana) writes:


>In article <1992Apr16.024305.20671@massey.ac.nz>, A.Qadir@massey.ac.nz
>(A. Qadir) writes:
>> Dear Brs & sisters in ISLAM,
>>
>>  [deleted]
>>
>> I would like to request all MUSLIM, not the stupid
>                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> QADIANI "KUFFAR", please do some thing for it so we can get
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> rid of these non sense people and their non-sense posting.
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> 
>> Altaf Qadir



>Mr. Qadir are you in your mind? Is this the way to talk? This is what
>your Islam has taught you? Don't you have any respect for any other belief? 

>Now that all you Non-ahmadi Muslims are running out of arguments and
>logic to support your claims, this is the solution you are coming up
>with? Now you want to get rid of us? If you are not interested in the
>debate or you have sealed your mind to listen to other belief's, then
>why are you stopping others? There are many many reasonable/sensible
>people on the net, who are interested in this debate. 

>Mr. Qadir take a break and go get some fresh air. 

Altaf Bhai! some fresh air is due after this diarheotic explosion.

Tauba, Tauba, Lanat ulla ul Kazibeen. and Altaf just means that he is
through with you gaays.

We never get run-out only LBW, and it seems logic is Iblis given gift
to you which you use effectively (now are you happy, little praise goes
a long way!!~!!~), but logic as i know you derive from the advisors
in US and UK.

>Sincerely,
Sincerely too,

Murad [ illogical, TOTALLY ] MIRZA.


>	
>**      *        *        * * * *    * * * * *  * * * * *  *  
>* *     *       * *       *      *   *          *          *
>*  *    *      *   *      *      *   *          *          *
>*   *   *     *     *     * * * *    * * * *    * * * *    *
>*    *  *    * * * * *    *      *   *          *          *
>*     * *   *         *   *      *   *          *          *
>*      **  *           *  * * * *    * * * * *  * * * * *  * * * * * *
>                                                               __________
>        "Is Not Allah Sufficient for His man?" :Quran         |  o    o  |
>        Nabeel Ahmad Rana, (LOVE FOR ALL : HATRED FOR NONE)   |    /\    |
>        April 15, 1992.                                       |  \____/  |
>                                                              |___smile__|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: 2+2=5
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 19:14:27 GMT

smunir@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sohail Munir) writes:


>Hi!
>I read an article 'A Mathamatical Fallacy' proving that 2+2=5.
>Here is the proof.

>16-36=25-45   (-20=-20)

>16-36+(81/4)=25-45+(81/4)

>(4*4)-(2)(4)(9/2)+(9/2)(9/2) = (5*5)-(2)(5)(9/2)+(9/2)(9/2)

>(4-9/2)sq=(5-9/2)sq

>4-9/2 = 5-9/2

This should be |4-9/2| = |5-9/2|
               |-1/2| = |1/2|

but not -1/2 = 1/2.

>4=5

>therefore,

>2+2=5

>Proved.




>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> SSSSS    OOOO    HH  HH    AAAA    IIIIII   LL
>SS       OO  OO   HH  HH   AA  AA     II     LL
> SSSS    OO  OO   HHHHHH   AAAAAA     II     LL
>    SS   OO  OO   HH  HH   AA  AA     II     LL 
>SSSSS     OOOO    HH  HH   AA  AA   IIIIII   LLLLLL

>SOHAIL MUNIR
>e-mail:smunir@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>Tel: (614) 294-1468
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: **Female Pakstudent and burqa
Date: 6 Apr 92 09:20:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: CMUVM.92097.05203832JMVQG
 <1840@transfer.stratus.com> <ktnimhINNo8r@crewcut.cs.utexas.edu>
 <AKGOEL.92Apr3120517@plg.waterloo.edu>
Organization: Central Michigan University

Mr. Goel :

       Why you put lot of your time on defining that Maudoodi was against Pakis
tan and later you asked the netters that if anybody could cite some reference o
n this issue.  Why you did not ask me ?  Being an Indian, you do not know that
this allegation stands for the last 45 years by opponents of Maudoodi but inclu
ding ministers (like Kausar Niazi), prime minister (Z.A. Butto, Benazir), presi
dent (Ayub Khan), governors (all), no body can proved this and or remained able
 to bring a single references.  In fact he was in favor of creation of Pakistan
and he said many times that if a single yard is created in the name of Allah he
 would be first one to migrate to that land.

        Br. Subhan Shahid wrote on this issue and gave him a reply, after this
he disappeared ?  Being an Indian you are ill-informed and try once more.  But
remember this time you have to make some false references yourself.  So please
go ahead and bang your head on computer scree for searching refrence to lay dow
n maudoodi but remember from india you and from Pakistan many like you :

            'Aa Andilib milke karain ah-0-zarian
             To hai gul pukar main chillaon hai dil    Salam.
From: anajam@athena.mit.edu (ADIL NAJAM)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Neelam Ghar to get a new compare........
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:53:14 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology




aab jigar thaam kay baitho, mairee baari aayee.....

Yes, that is what Naeem Bokhari (once of Tahira Syed fame, then of Studio-2
notriety and most recently of 'Bila-Takaluf' recognition) must be saying back in
Pakistan.

After a marathon run of 13 long years popular TV quiz programme Neelam Ghar is
going to get a new compare....yes, good 'ol Tariq Aziz is giving way to Naeem
Bokhari....just as an era ends on the Tonight show with Jhonny Carson passing
the mantle to Jay Leno, Tariq also passes the baton to Naeem.....there too an
era ends.

While we as a people sometimes became tired of and angry at Tariq Aziz's
so-called monotonous style, but the fact remains that he and his Nelam Ghar have
made PTV history and influenced a whole generation of PTV watchers beyond what
they themselves recognize. I for one have always felt that for some Tariq became
a man people loved to hate.....but despite all that people said about getting
tired of him, Neelam Ghar always remained one of the most watched programmes on
PTV. It was more out of our character of criticism that we questioned
Tariq....now that he would no longer be there, many will doubtlessly miss
him....Few actually realized his brilliance.....As Anwar Maqsood once said, "No
one except Tariq Aziz could have carried it on for 13 years"........a tough
challenge for Naeem.........As Naeem's stints on Studio 2 and more recently on
NTMs Bila Takaluf have proved, he can certainly keep interest alive with his
jolly and bubbly personality for a little while.......but can he play the
marathon innings that Tariq played?.....Also Tariq Aziz's greatest strength was
his credibility.....half of Pakistan actually believed that he was the brightest
person in the country........can Naeem Bokhari's "maskhara" immage pull it off?

Interesting questions....and tough ones for Naeem!

Last year when Tariq was just beginning his 13th innings Dildar Pervaiz Bhatti
commented that the maximum imprisonment that a prisoner is given in court of law
is 13 years......and maybe this should symbolically mean that the viewers should
be now spared on his "daikhti aankhouN, suntay kaanouN....." routine......maybe
Bhatti's comments were prophetic......but for this scribe,  Tariq's exit is a
loss......even if Naeem's entry may later prove to be a gain..........
From: ss511583@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Sohban Shahid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Re maindki ko zukaam. Take some advil
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:50:00 GMT
Reply-To: ss511583@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Sohban Shahid)
Distribution: na
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University


Jafry ke baiwaqoofi

>Baiwaqoofo, first find out iman, belief and faith
>then u will understand pardah.  I remember one of brother told one
hindu to rea
>d the book of Maulana Maudoodi on specific issue and later wrote that
it will h
>elp him to understand Islam.  No.  Give him Quran with meaning to
understand it
>Prophet Mohammed (S) used to explain the religion with explanation and verse
>s of Holy Quran.  This is the real way.  Salam. Jafry

Naveed  ke .........????????  (definitely not baiwaqoofi)

>If the Prophet had addressed the people of Arabia as baywaqoofa I bet there
>would not have been a single Arab that would have converted to Islam from the
>jahalat that they were living in. However that did not happen and the 
>prophet was responsible for converting Arabs into Islam by the sheer 
>strength of his character that later became one feature among muslims that
>was responsible for the spread of Islam in the subcontinent. i.e the Islam
>that I find worth loving is the sort of Islam whose followers exhibit the
>qualities that prove their worth as tolerant forgiving human beings like the
>prophets.


Naveed you know it very well that Jafry is an exceptional budy but  what 
happened to you. Jafry was on one extreme  and you are  the other extreme.
Kahaan zameen aur woo bhee jafry jaisee zameen aur kahaan woo roushan
fhallak.  Can we live somewhere in between?   I think so we can buy it.

----------------------------------------------------
SOHBAN SHAHID              e-mail ss511583@longs.lance.ColoState.Edu
Civil Engg. Dept.                    (303) 491 5844/8204 (work)
Colorado State University (303) 224 0397  (home)
Ft. Collins, CO-80523
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: sohan+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Women and Burqa: Analyzing the recent discussion
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:38:06 GMT
	<1992Apr8.234135.19796@sarah.albany.edu>
Organization: Software Development, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.pakistan: 8-Apr-92 Re: Women and
Burqa: Analyz.. Yazmasterj@sarah.albany. (2580)

> There are many cases where the passages of the Quran were
> 	addressed directly to the Prophet or members of his household
> 	which were not applied to others.  For example, the Prophet
> 	was allowed to have nine wives while the limit on all other
> 	Muslim men is four.  The wives of the Prophet were not allowed

Hmm...cough...cough...
Actually, it is not clear whether the limit of nine wives is restricted
to the Prophet. Nor is it clear that the limit is indeed nine. Some
accounts give the number of the Prophet's wives as nine, some say n
wives and 12 minus n concubines or some such.
Don't laugh when you read further and I am not pulling this out of my
hat, but historically, learned mullahs have been at variance as to the
exact number of wives permitted, but the numbers given were usually 4, 9
or 18. The Quran may be immutable, but the mind of the ulema is not, and
the number to be given was usually highly correlated with the number
desired by the local Defender of the Faith, alias caliph or king or
sultan or monarch or whatever. Virtually all readers here are familiar
with the argument for the limit of four from the Quranic verse 4.3. The
limit of nine was reached by those of the ulema who interpreted the
parts of the Quranic verse in question
"...then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; ..."
as indicating a limit of two plus three plus four, which usually
indicates nine, unless Khan Sahib @davidsys.com has changed that
recently. :-)
Some of the ulema seemed to think that the original verse ran
"... two and two, and three and three, and four and four ..."
which, as is obvious to everyone now, adds up to the nice number of eighteen!
Of course, I am sure some people were sure Allah was testing their iman
(and maybe more:-) by making them perceive a larger limit - a la Khan
Sahib. :-)
___
Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai
Office: UCC 181	Phone: x6406 [(412)268-6406]

Remember: Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: aamir@IASTATE.EDU (Mohammad Asif)
Subject: Re: Please answer Mr.Noor (M.G.A.Q's beliefs about Khatam-e-Nabuwwat)
Reply-To: aamir@IASTATE.EDU (Mohammad Asif)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 03:43:28 GMT
From: merchant@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: 'Kisi wakeel karain kissay munsafi chahain'
Date: 6 Apr 92 11:31:43 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

In article <92093.04493132JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>, Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry <32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:
> Salam Alaikum :  Rukhsana Saheba (if you are really rukhsana otherwise people l
> ie ): 

Walaikum Salam Jafry,
	Yes it is rukhsana.  I find it hard understand how a muslim can
implicitily or explicitly put doubt on another muslim's character, since
this is strictly forbidden.  No sir, I do my best not to lie and I would
appreciate it if you omit from further assumptions on my character.

> Recently I got a left hook on my nose 'Hamto gaithe chaila banki nari ka
> hgai bhyya' (Jamil Aali).  First of all I am sorry that from my writing offende
> d you.  
Apologies accepted.

> But to whom I discussed that issue on length through e-mail and explain
> ed my point of view and dushmano ki sazish, they agreed on the issue.  But leav
> ing all work aside I cannot explain everybody my point of view. Simply I can sa
> y that 'Na isay samagh sake tum na samagh saka zamana', when I get some time I
> will talk to you and explain the 'conspiracy'  thanks. and salam.

I have a hard time understanding where you are coming from, since we
seem to have very different upbringings.  I also do not want to put doubts
on your intentions, because I believe, that you believe you are educating
others of what Islam is and Allah know what good he is put in a 
person, and what a person's intentions are.  I, therefore, will take
leave of these discussions, since I do not seem to understand or be
aware of any conspiracies.  Khuda hafiz and salams, -rukhsana

-- 


If we are ever going to see a rainbow, we have to stand a little rain.
From: fazam@skat.usc.edu (Farooq Azam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: POSSIBLE BAN OF PAKISTAN HOCKEY TEAM.....
Date: 11 Apr 1992 12:30:05 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

This indeed is a very sad moment for Pakistan hockey, that pakistan hockey team
center forward Mussadiq Hussain has been tested positive in a dope test held
on the occasion of Champion's trophy. This has put, in my opnion, all the 
achivements of Pakistan team in recent past in a state of doubt. Inter-
national Hockey Federation is considering a possible ban of Pakistan team from 
Barcelona Olympics for the same reason.

Unbiased opnion says that this misconduct should not go unpunished, but  
being a Pakistani, I hope that only Musaadiq Hussain be banned and Pakistan
Team be allowed to participate in Olympics. After all hockey is our national
game.

Farooq Azam
USC, Los Angels