From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Fake?
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:59:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 

CMA>Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.greek

Quoting: Caglan M. Aras
CMA>The arm of the Turkish government is not as long as you may have been
CMA>taught. I wish there was a national network of computers where decent
CMA>information about people was kept and the paperwork minimized. The

 Are you saying that files are kept, but not on a computer? Call EDS or
 Andersen Colsulting, and they can take care of it. But the fact is
 that the Turkish government has taken (sometimes fatal) measures against
 dissidents. Journalist Ipektsi (sp?) was a well-celebrated case.

CMA>simple fact that you don't understand is that although all of the
CMA>Turkish participants may not agree with the style, they are mostly in
CMA>agreement with Mutlu's activities. He has the resources to prevent and

  If that is true, I am very dissapointed. I have a much higher opinion of
  the Turkish people, esp. students.

CMA>you want to see how it feels to be in his feet, just answer the
CMA>following questions and think of having to answer for these questions
CMA>when they are exagerated by a factor of 10:

  Well, I'll try, even though he NEVER answers to my questions.

CMA>- Why were so many Turks persecuted in Cyprus between 67-74?

  I am always the first to denounce the actions of the 1967-47 dictatorial
  regime in Athens, and the actions of EOKA-B. But the fact remains that
  the lawful voice of the Cypriot people, Makarios(+), was opposed to these
  unlawful actions.

  Evidence also exists that actions of EOKA-B were a part of a
  conspiracy between Athens, Ankara and Washington. The de-stabilization of
  Makarios' government, through unlawful actions from both sides, and
  the subsequent coup-d-etat and invasion/partioning were planned by all
  three sides. I can quote pages and pages on the subject from the book
  "2650 days and nights of conspiracy" by Nikos Kakaounakis, where this
  consiracy is detailed. Just promise me that you will review this evidence
  with an open mind, and I'll make the effort to translate and type them.

  I agree that any actions of the Turkish government back then are no excuse
  for the actions of the Greek dictators. In any case, they have been
  thoroughly punished for their illegal actions, and they are still been
  punished. Can we now go on with resolving the Cyprus issue? How about
  respecting the UN resolutions on the matter?

CMA>- Why are the Turks in North Eastern Greece not given full rights and
CMA>why do we keep hearing about discrimination against them?

  Turks in NE Greece have full protection of their human rights. The fact
  is that their population is increasing at a rate higher than the rate
  of the rest of the Greek population, and that their literacy rate is
  higher than the literacy rate of their relatives across the border in Turkey.
  Full education is given in the Turkish language, while the Kurdish languare
  in Turkey is supressed.

  Why are you hearing so much? Two problems: First there are indeed some
  morons on the Greek side, Greek equivalents of H Mutlu, who, acting as
  individuals, cause trouble. Second there are some equally stupid local
  third rate politicians who make stupid statements that are then presented
  by the Turkish media as the official view of the Greek gvmnt. Finally, there
  is a lot of mis-information crossing the border. Recently, two girls, one
  Christian, one Muslim, were harrased a motorcycle gang, until some locals
  came to their aid. In next day's turkish papers, both girls were reported
  as Muslim. A few days later there were 'reports' of massive attacks of
  motorcycle gangs against Turkish women in Eastern Thrace. Go figure.

CMA>- Why is Greece hostile against Macedonia?

  We are not hostile against Skopjie. We are hostile against the communist
  unelected government of Skopjie, who are trying to usurp Greek cultural
  heritage for their own purposes. Greece has repeatedly stated that they
  will offer every possible assistance to Skopjie once this naming issue
  has been cleared. The govmnt has wisely (for a change) pursued a 100%
  diplomatic route to solving the problem. That the EEC and the US have
  taken the side of the Greek govmnt is an indication that the Greek
  demands are not unreasonable.

CMA>- Why is Greece arming the islands in the Aegean, against all treaties?

   Read ALL the treaties. The 1923 treaties were overriden by the later
   agreements signed by Inonu. Your govmnt is not giving you the whole story.
   Even if those treaties were in effect, by the same token why is Turkey
   keeping thousands of Troops illegally in Cyprus, in violation of the
   Lausagnes treaty and the subsequent U.N. resolutions.

CMA>I can go on and on and on. Just because Turkey has not mounted an
CMA>agressive publicity campaign against these issues does not mean these

   Turkey has spend endless amounts of money on lobbying in Congress. Their
   efforts are currently spearheaded by Rep. Solarz of Brooklyn, better known
   for his support of dictatorial regimes in Central America. Fortunately
   chances are slim that he will be re-elected next year, in spite of his
   $1,000,000 cache.

CMA>and other issues do not exist and are unimportant. So, to see how Hasan
CMA>may feel, if you want, I can ask these to you every day, and make up a
CMA>few to polish up my point. I can even add some lies, fake documents, and

   Please don't. Do not step down to HBM's level.

CMA>maybe, I can add some terrorism to show the boldness of my fake ideas
CMA>and how people can be sacrificed for these fake ideas. Then you may be a
CMA>little ticked off. Then I can perhaps collect some money and get a
CMA>terrorist group to bomb several Greek Embassies around the world, shoot

   When has Greece ever operated terrorist attacks against Turkish embassies?
   I am well aware of the actions of certain Armenian factions, and I do not
   applaud them, quite the contrary. That does not change my opinions on the
   reality of the genocide of over a million Armenians.

CMA>an answer. If you say yes, then we can perhaps try some of them, (the
CMA>question-hassle part, of course :) ) and see how long you are going to

   I tried, as honestly and in as much detail as I could, to answer all your
   questions. You must agree that this is 1,000,000% more than HBM has
   ever tried to do.

   Now let me ask you:
   1. Why has Turkey and the TPRNC failed for so long to respect the U.N.
   resolutions on Cyprus?

   2. Is it true that the Turkish Army and Government regularly use extreme
   force in dealing with political dissidents?

   3. Can you justify the repeated violations of Greek airspace by Turkish
   military aircraft over the Aegean?

   4. What is the purpose of the Aegean Fleet, the largest amphibian landing
   force in the world?

   5. Regardless of what you opinion is on alledged genocide commited by
   Armenians, do you agree that atrocities against Armenians were committed
   by the Turkish gvmnt?

   6. Mr HBM has repeatedly stated that Greece has had only 17.5 years of
  democracy in it's history. Do you agree with that statement?

CMA>Caglan M. Aras

Michael.

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