From: noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer)
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 04:52:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.120558.12106@ultb.isc.rit.edu> kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.152345.16950@news.nd.edu>, slarsen@monet.helios.nd.edu 
>(susan larsen) writes:
>
>>I would have to agree with you on this, Katie.  In my dialog with women
>>at workbreaks, on the front porch, the store, anyplace where women gather
>>exclusive of men, man-bashing abounds.  And the most vocal at it are the 
>>"mainstream women" (as opposed to any hue of "feminist).  I think that 
>>some of the men who are claiming that such acts are "outrageous" and 
>>that net.women must be exaggerating are completely missing the point. 
>>This man-bashing DOES exist, and it happens so frequently that I believe 
>>that women use it as a female-bonding mechanism.  This is not a positive
>>situation, IMO, but just because we don't like to hear about it does 
>>not change the fact that it is happening.
>
>Sue, your observation that this sort of man-bashing happens so frequently that
>it appears to be a sort of bonding mechanism for women struck a chord with me. 
>I wonder if this behavior isn't some sort of alternative for these women who
>may well not feel empowered by or involved with the "traditional" feminist
>movement; the bonding could be their substitute and their way of empowering
>themselves.


My ex2b told me that at work, she and all her friends love to sit
around and trash men.  She told me the most common adjective used to
describe men is "pigs."  She works at a job where the average salary is
less than $10.00 per hour.  She and her co-workers came up with what
they thought was a novel idea.  They believe that men like to be "taken
down" verbally by women and thought a 1-900 number that men could call
and be insulted and degraded by women would be quite a good idea.  They
also thinks it would make a great deal of money.

She has also told me over and over that she is especially offended by
my involvement with men's rights issues, and men's and children's
groups.  Her term for the collective is "Nazi men's rights groups" - an
interesting parallel to the "feminazi" label that often crops up here.

She is still staunchly opposed to "joint custody" as a standard, thinks
"shared parenting" is simply the old arrangement with name changes to
appease men, thinks "parenting time" is terrible replacement for the
term "visitation," thinks that women are smarter than men, thinks that
women are much more nurturing and are better parents than men, thinks
that all men are abusive and doesn't want to have another relationship
with a man again etc.

I believe that women and men are equally intelligent and have equal
capacities to learn.  I believe that men and women are equally good at
parenting and that men would do quite well at it if given the
opportunity - those that have been do very well - as well as women.  I
believe in equal opportunities for men and women.  I believe in
equality and no gender preference in custody of children post-divorce.
I believe that the terms "visitation," "absent parent," "non-custodial
parent," and "deadbeat dads" are dehumanizing and demeaning.  I also
don't believe men would pay to have women trash them over the phone.

Aaron L. Hoffmeyer
TR@CBNEA.ATT.COM