From: liang@saul.cis.upenn.edu (Chuck Liang)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Non-mail-order experiences (also: shopping for used equipment)
Date: 26 Aug 92 04:54:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pennsylvania



  I don't know if this will be useful to anybody, but I'm bored and
thought I'd make this post.  The excellent monthly survey of
discount camera stores in this newsgroup only deals with mail-order
experiences, and not so much with the stores themselfs.  I'd think
it's safe to say that while mail-ordering new equipment is a good way
to safe money, when buying used items it is essential that you get to
examine it beforehand.  As an avid (near-nutcase) weird and old
equipment hunter, I've visited many of the well-known camera 
stores in New York, as well as all the camera stores in the
Philadelphia area.   So I thought I'd give an estimation of what
these stores would be like if you are to actually visit them.  I'd
love to hear from others about major camera stores in other cities, as
well as different experiences from my own. If there are enough posts,
maybe we can compile a list of summuries for the major camera stores
around the country. 


  New York City:


  B&H.   Since this store is so well known, the first time I went there
I expected to see something grandiose.  But NO!  The place is hardly
larger than one of your shopping-mall one-hour lab deals!  However, although
the place look extremely crowded, it's actually quite well organized.
I've had one good and one bad experience shopping there.  The sales
people don't try to sell you what you didn't go there for, though
sometime they won't give you the time of day.  They don't
have much used equipment.  Grade: A-


  Adorama.  The store exists in a tiny, narrow hallway.  But it's packed
full of everything photographic.  Like B&H, their in-store prices are
the same as in their mail-order ads (plus tax).  The sales people are
a little bit on the slimy side.  They'll try to sell you filters,
shades, warranty extentions, and intimidate you into buying something
without thinking.   Prices for their used equipment varies - but there
are more overpriced items than bargains.  They are willing to deal for
used equipment.  Grade: B


  47th Street photo.  These people are very friendly, at least when
you're waiting in line.  They bring out baskets full of candies for
their shoppers.  Nothing bad to say about them.  They don't have much
of what I want (like contax and leica screwmount rangefinders).
Prices for new equipment are not quite as attractive as some other places.
Grade: A


  Foto-Cell.   I only went to this place once.  They have cases full
of beautiful(!) used equipment - contax, rollei, leica & copies -
everything.  I was looking for a zeiss lens, and saw a whole roll of
them neatly lined up in display.  But while I stood in front of their
used-collectible counter, the two salesmen in the store were busy
selling a point and shoot to some guy and didn't even notice that I
existed.  And from what I can hear, they were jerks.  It was getting
rediculous with me standing there, so I left.  The few items I saw
tagged with prices seem a bit over-priced, though I don't know if
they're willing to deal.  Maybe I'll try them again some other time.
The store is very neat - but also very deserted.  I wonder why.
Grade: F


Wall Street Camera.  I'd have to say this is my favorite NYC camera
store right now.  I've been there twice, each time satisfied with what
I got.  The salespeople are very friendly.  They are in the process of
moving around so they can't even locate certain items, but that should
change.  They have loads of used, old and collectible equipment -
however, over half of them are in very bad shape.  They are willing to
deal on the price of used equipment.  Be warned that the equipment (used)
they list in their shutterbug ads doesn't correspond with their actual
stock.    Grade: A.


Olden Camera.  This is a very old store - building, staff and
equipment.  Only their prices don't look at all old.  I don't think
you can mail order from them but they are listed in the monthly
survey.  Their idea of what some cameras are worth is outrageous.
Most things over-priced, even items that belong in the trash can.  The
only interesting thing I found was a shelf full of old camera instruction
manuals - rolleiflexs, Voigtlanders, etc... that they sell.  Grade: C-




Philadelphia area stores.


  New York stores can't be beat for new equipment prices, but I've
found you can get very good deals on used equipment elsewhere -
notably Philadelphia, one hundrend miles south of New York.  I live
within walking distance of most of the camera stores here and know
them well (and well known to them).  


Photo-Cine Shop (18th and sansom street).  This is the classiest store
in phily.  They mainly sell (or help people sell) well-maintained used
equipment.  Their display case contains some usual used 35mm SLR's,
but also many classy items - Leica, Rollei, Minox...  And their
prices are often terific, something you probably don't expect from a
store located off Rittenhouse square, where many wealthy persons
reside.  The sales staff is very knowledgable and friendly, and
willing to show you their cameras, even when they know you're not
going to buy anything.  However, don't expect to talk down their
asking prices.  I've bought 3 cameras from them.  Grade: A+


  Mid-City Camera.  This is the largest, most professional store in
Phily.  They have a complete stock.  But they are geared to the
practical-minded amature/professional.  Nothing fancy.  New prices are
high, but usually you can find good deals on used SLR's.  Very
complete darkroom section.  Fairly friendly staff but not very willing
to negotiate prices.  Grade: B+


  Photorama.  These people are family.  I once stayed in the store
nearly an hour after their closing time while they helped me collect
darkroom equipment when I was buying an used enlarger from them.  They
have a room full of old, dusty, but cheap and often useful things.
They sell mainly used equipment.  The condition of their stock,
however, is somewhat lacking.  Often things are missing a screw here
or there.  But if you take the time to inspect the items carefully,
you can find bargains like nowhere else.  Many times I bought things
that are rediculously cheap.  They have a room full of old darkroom
equipment that they'd love to give to you for almost nothing.
Bargains can be found on cameras too.  Consider a Leica CL with 40mm
summicron lens at $550 asking price, or a Mamiya 645 (early,
non-removable back model) with 80mm f2.8 lens and metered prism finder
also for about $550.  Sometimes the owner doesn't really know the true
value of his equipment.  I regret not grabbing an absolutely MINT
Leica IIIf RD ST with 50mm summitar lens for $399.  Usually you can 
bargain the price down slightly.  Grade: A.


Camera Care.  Located in a semi-seedy section of phily, this store
mostly caters to the struggling professional.  The owner of this place
thinks he's some kind of Grand Lama.  He'd start lecturing you on
stuff.  They are VERY willing to bargain with you.  Their equipment
stock varies from collectables to used autofocus lenses.  Going to
this place is a cultural experience.  They are not the kind of store
who wants to sell cameras to old ladies as well as deal in collectible
and professional equipment.  I have the feeling they have a limited
set of customers.  Grade: No grade applies.


Kosmin's Camera Exchange.   These guys must be cousins with Olden
camera of New York.  Very old people charging rediculously high prices
on very old equipment.  Their philosophy is to sell one camera and
live off of it for the next month.  Their broken items cost
more than new ones should.   Grade: D-


The Camera Shop in Bryn Mawr  (not to be confused with the "Camera
Shop" chain stores).   They once got the "best of phily" award for
camera stores but now I'd say they're in the dog house.  Overpriced
equipment and deceptive, yuppie-looking salesmen who tries to convince
you that you're buying bargains.  They are well stocked.  Grade: C-



Portland, Oregon:

Camera World (of Oregon).  I grew up in the Portland area, but wasn't
interested in photography until after I left.  CWO is practically the
only camera store of its type in the city.  That allows them to price
their in-store items much higher than in their mail-order ads, to take
advantage of the lack of local competition.  Used equipment limited,
with very few bargains.  Salespersons are not rude at best.  A big
disapointment when I went there for the first time last year.  Grade: C