HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yasin@laser.dev.cdx.mot.com (Yasin)
Subject: Re: The Bear Trap - book by a pakistani general
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, Massachusetts
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:10:49 GMT

In article <ZIA.92Jul30173333@evans.ee.adfa.oz.au> zia@evans.ee.adfa.oz.au (Zia Ahmed) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.132201.18411@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mmasood@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mohammed A Masood) writes:
>
>   Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
>   Path: sserve!manuel!munnari.oz.au!mips!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!mmasood
>   From: mmasood@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mohammed A Masood)
>   Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>   Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>   Organization: The Ohio State University
>   Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:22:01 GMT
>   Lines: 6
>
>   Salaam, have anybody heard of the book called "The Bear Trap" 
>   by General Yusuf of Pakistan.  It deals with the issue of arms
>   aid to Afghanistan Jihad during the period of `83-`87?
>
>   If yes, could you send me some info on how to get hold to a copy
>   of the book.  I don't seem to find at the Ohio State Univ. Lib.
>
>   THE BEAR TRAP (243 pages)
>   BY: MOHAMMAD YOUSAF AND MARK ADKIN
>   PUBLISHER: LEO COOPER, UK
>   PRIZE: 18.50 (Pounds Sterling)


 USA price: $37.50
 from: Waterstone's
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (21st)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:04:54 GMT

There seem to some arguments on the Babri Masjid issue.
And comments are being passed back and forth.  
Some observations and points: 
Allah and Ram maybe equally mythical, but there is no human shape 
assigned to Allah and no birthplace associated with him/her.

Anyway, the point is that throughout history, every ruling group has 
taken over or destroyed temples and churches of the ruled people.  
This does not mean that you can go back in time and undo it.  The 
Mughals I'm sure took over many temples(although the Babri Masjid's 
past is still debatable->whether it was built over a previous temple), 
just as the Turks converted Aya Sophia to a Mosque in Istanbul, and 
just as the Spanish converted many mosques and synagogues to churches 
after the Re-Conquest of Spain.

So regardless of whether archaeologists find evidence supporting or
nullifying the Hindu fundamentalist' claim, the Mosque is still there.
Just as many previous mosques in Punjab are now Gurdwaras and Mandirs.
What do you think? Is it better to save your breath and let the past
go away or sit here and bicker over this?

Omar 
omar.farooq@att.com
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: NATIONAL LANGUAGE
Date: 23 Jul 92 07:06:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.oePgfvi00VAwQKZkMb
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Switzerland has existed as a nation since 1291, so says the
encyclopedia. The languages of its peoples are:


             Language and Religion

             In spite of the conventional differentiation into a German,
             French, and Italian SWITZERLAND, it is mostly language, not
             ethnic consciousness, that distinguishes different segments of
             the Swiss population.  Today the majority (65%) speak a German
             dialect known as Schwyzertutsch, while about 18% speak French,
             12% speak Italian, and 1% (mainly in the Engadine section of
             Graubunden canton) speak Romansch, a Romance language belonging
             to the Rheto-Romanic group.  With the exception of a tiny
             Jewish community, the population is almost evenly divided
             between Roman Catholics (49.4%) and Protestants (47.8%).


So you see, the myth of one nation == one language is just that.
Foolish to keep fighting over it.

-arun gupta
ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: vu0208@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (!)
Subject: Re: First Pakistani MD-PhD!
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:13:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.093144.30417@davidsys.com> khan@davidsys.com writes:
>  When you counter my arguments against 
>mad rush for worldly 'scholarship' with
>"Iqra!" from the Quran, you should understand
>that Allah swt is referring to the Quran,
>True Knowledge, not the False Knowledge of
>universities of today, a knowledge based on
>denial of God, and insists on Uncertainty.
>  On one level the Quran is a clear message,
>on the other level it is a key to  many
>other worlds of knowledge. 
>  You can have as many Phd.'s as you want,
>but can you identify your own Shaitaan?
>Can you identify which spirit you may be
>possessed with at any given time during
>the course of any endeavor, whether it
>is from Allah swt , or from a source 180 degrees
>opposite??
>  Status built around worldly pedestals
>is falsehood. 


    Rab-e-Zidni Ilmaa'
 
    O' God Give me more Knowledge...
From: zafar@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Syed Zafar Kazmi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Quwattay bazooay Muslim nay kiya kaam Tera..
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:34:22 GMT
	<dogar.711992119@opal4> <1992Jul25.035911.7509@newton.ccs.tuns.ca>
	<dogar.712251519@opal4>
Organization: College of Engineering, Northeastern University
In-reply-to: dogar@rtsg.mot.com's message of 27 Jul 92 15:38:39 GMT


>>>>> On 27 Jul 92 15:38:39 GMT, dogar@rtsg.mot.com (Haroon H. Dogar) said:

Haroon> Jawaab: Bhudsanam khaano main khushee kai Musalman gai


Just to set the record right, the above line goes like this:

	Boot(Idols) sanam-khanon main kehtay hain Musalman Gaiy
	Hay khooshi un ko kaabay kay nighaybaan Gaiy
	Manzil-e-dehr say oonton(camels) kay hudi-khawan Gaiy
	Apni baghlon main dabaiy hooway Quran Gaiy

	Khindaa zan kufr hay, ehsaas tughey hay kay naheen!
	Apni tawheed ka kuch paas tujhe hay kay naheen!

					[Need any more!-?]
	
Zafar Kazmi

P.S. Sorry, but had to get it out of my system:-)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:12771 soc.culture.indian:26003
From: alis@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Salman A. Ali)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: newsgroup for field hockey ?
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:29:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: CS.1992Jul26.202923.5036
Distribution: na
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.


	Question :
		  I thought there was a newsgroup for field hockey
		  by the name of rec.sport.hockey.field

		  Can anyone confirm whether this really exists or not,
		  if so, then are updates being sent on it about the
		  olympic results.

		  by the way, does anyone know the result b/w pak vs malaysia

		  thank u.

		  Salman Ali
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (21st)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:34:11 GMT

>In Article 25992 (4 more) in soc.culture.pakistan:
>From: sankar@hal.COM (Sankar Bandy)
>Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (21st)
>Date: 22 Jul 1992 11:26:47 -0700
>Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
>Lines: 48
>NNTP-Posting-Host: quality.hal.com
>
>Sankar Bandy writes..

>It is not true that religious structures once converted has not been
>reconverted. As far as I know , when the Turks conquered Spain they
>destroyed all the beautiful churches and built Mosques on most of
>them. However, when Spain came back to Christian power all of these
>erstwhile churches were restored.

My point was that many times ruling groups have changed a temple from
what it was originally built for.  Yes many of them may have been
reconverted back but the prevailing outcome is that most of the
monuments were left alone.  You can go to Spain and see many churches
that were razed to the ground and the Mosques built on top are still
intact, and vice versar for the Churches that were built on top of
mosques.
By the way , the Turks did not conquer Spain, the Arabs/Moors did.

NOTE: There is a difference between converting a structure from one
temple to another and destroying a building to make a new one.

>can you show a single proof of mosques in East Punjab having been 
>converted to temples or gurudwaras ?

My family is originally from Jhullunder (Indian Punjab) and the 
village they were in was predominantly Muslim.  Upon the time of 
partition, most of the village was destroyed and the two Mosques
there(Jamia masjid and masjid-ulmomin) were gurdwaras when I visited
that area 3 years ago.  And many people there told us of similar
incidents elsewhere.
Again, I am not complaining, this sort of stuff happened mutually
between Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims.  So it's an observation and
don't take it as provocation.

Later
Omar
omar.farooq@att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: MM24@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Any one in SF (California)
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:30:13 GMT
Organization: University of Liverpool

Hello, I am a student in Liverpool. I am intending to attend a medical
conference in SF in December.  I would greatly appreciate if any one living
in that area contact me via E-mail, I just need some advice on hotels,
transport and few other things.
Thankyou in advance

Dr. Aamir Memon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ahasan@snake-3.cae.wisc.edu (Ali Hasan)
Subject: Re: miss! miss! missssssssssssssssssssssss! (was: nat'l lang)
Distribution: na
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:13:32 CDT
Originator: ahasan@snake-3.cae.wisc.edu


In article <BrtCCw.FvA@acsu.buffalo.edu>, memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon) writes:
|> From: arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan)
|> Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
|> Subject: Re: NATIONAL LANGUAGE
|> 
|> 
|> >why arabic, just because we are muslims, what utter rot. Lets just have punjabi
|> >as the national language as a large number of pakistani's speak it already.
|> >Arabic, if we learn arabic we might turn out to be like arabs, god forbid.
|> 
|> >sahibzada rafay khan[]
|> 
|> 
|> jan bablo, how about having Seraiki as the national langauge. It should 
|> not be hard to adjust to Seraiki for Punjabis, Urdu-speaking Pakistanis,
|> and Sindhis. PaThan brothers and Sahibzada Khans who are fluent in Urdu
|> should have no problems. I think the sweetness and humility of Seraiki 
|> can do an awful lot to bring people together because even if you have 
|> a fight with someone, the curse words sound so romantic and loving :)
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> Naveed
	
	As opposed to punjabi, where even romantic words sound
	like one is explaining the family tree in none too uncertain
	terms or telling them to do something which, even though
	physically possible, would be very painful ;-)

							--ali.
-- 
**********************************************************************
* Ali Hasan			Computer Aided Engineering	     *
* ahasan@cae.wisc.edu		UW-Madison.			     *
**********************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.iranian
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: ISLAM ON ABORTION
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:16:20 GMT

Since I am not an erudite Islamic scholar, I was wondering if someone
had any facts, quotes, or knowledge about Islam'c position towards
abortion.  I have heard from many people that according to Muhammad(PBUH), 
abortion was allowed by the third month of pregnancy(latest), since the
soul of child was not formed yet.

Thanx in advance!
E-mail me directly or post it for others' interest as well.

Omar
omar.farooq@att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mghayalo@uceng.UC.EDU (Manoj Ghayalod)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (21st)
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Cincinnati
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:17:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.150454.8528@cbfsb.cb.att.com> onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq) writes:
>There seem to some arguments on the Babri Masjid issue.
>And comments are being passed back and forth.  
>Some observations and points: 
>Allah and Ram maybe equally mythical, but there is no human shape 
>assigned to Allah and no birthplace associated with him/her.
>
What's your point here ?

>Anyway, the point is that throughout history, every ruling group has 
>taken over or destroyed temples and churches of the ruled people.  
>This does not mean that you can go back in time and undo it.  The 
>Mughals I'm sure took over many temples(although the Babri Masjid's 
>past is still debatable->whether it was built over a previous temple), 
>just as the Turks converted Aya Sophia to a Mosque in Istanbul, and 
>just as the Spanish converted many mosques and synagogues to churches 
>after the Re-Conquest of Spain.

Here you are contradicting what you said in your last paragraph.
>
>So regardless of whether archaeologists find evidence supporting or
>nullifying the Hindu fundamentalist' claim, the Mosque is still there.
>Just as many previous mosques in Punjab are now Gurdwaras and Mandirs.
>
              Do you know this for a fact.

What do you think? Is it better to save your breath and let the past
>go away or sit here and bicker over this?
>
As far as my opinion goes, let the Babri masjid remain where it is.
My best friends in India are muslims and I would hate for them 
not to believe in India any more. Indian muslims have played no
small role in making India a dominant force in the subcontinent.
They are not responsible for the past.

I also know that if a temple was built over a mosque some centuries
ago an Islamic country would have destroyed it long back, but we just
aren't you.
From: umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Pakistani Olympic Athletes
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:13:41 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada


Last olympics, a Pakistani won a medal in boxing, did he make it this
time? If not, does any body know why?
Also what other events Pakistan is competing in besides field hockey?
There was another Pakistani who won a medal in wrestling in last olympics,
did he make it this time?

--nasir
umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca
From: waseems@sco.COM (Waseem Siddiqi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: NATIONAL LANGUAGE
Date: 27 Jul 92 01:39:50 GMT
Organization: SCO Canada, Inc.

In article <8ePgC4q00VAw8KU28L@andrew.cmu.edu> ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta) writes:
>
>Actually this national language thing is another distraction.
>A small country like Belgium has *TWO* languages, and has held
>together for quite a while (look at your history books). It is

A very bad example, if you have been following the recent events in 
Belgium. Actually the recent events there would argue the opposite.
Both the Walloons and the Flanders recently elected separation-minded
parties and there were considerable discussion going on whether
how long is Belgium going to hold. 

Canada is also officially bilingual. and beleive me this 2 language thing
here is not exactly popular.

waseem

>basically because no-one has felt the need to `uniformize' the
>people. When you stop trying to do that, people stop viewing
>each other with suspicion.
>
>The myth of nation-building in India and Pakistan has been that
>everyone must fit one mold. That is why our nations are moldy.
>
>-arun gupta


-- 
Waseem A. Siddiqi                                 Tel:    (416) 922 1937 
SCO Canada                                        email: waseems@sco.com 
Toronto, Canada                                        uunet!sco!waseems
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mughal@romeo.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Subject: Re: Green Card through marriage
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:30:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.231806.24896@menudo.uh.edu>, alt.binaries.pictures.erotica writes...
> 
> 
>Hi guys
>I need some info regarding the procedure and time involved in getting a green  
>card through spouse. My fiance is a U.S. citizen and I am on F-1 status. My
     			===============================
     			:)

>visa has expired so I am living here on a valid I-20.  I plan on getting  
>married in near future and have a few questions that some one could answer.
> 
>- How do you apply after the nikah?
You may want to have an Islamic wedding before going thru the following
'paperwork.'

Ask for marriage license from the City, your fiancee can ask it from her
home city. Usually after five working days (most states require blood tests 
etc) you appear before a judge (get an appointment ahead of time). You two 
sign the marriage certificate ... and ... Mubarak mubarak :)
File the marriage certificate with the City/State Court!

>- How long does it take for the whole process to go through?
From five working days to ... I don't know :)

>- How long before one is able to get a work permit?
No work permit needed. After filing marriage certificate you are a resident.

>- and most important of all, how long will I have to wait after the nikah
>  before I can visit Pakistan?
Maybe wait till your green card comes in from INS. Obviously you have to 
send beloved INS your marriage certificate etc to make a change in your
records. It should come in about 2-3 months, I think :)

>I need to go to Pakistan and since my visa is expired, I can't do so.
read above :)

> 
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>Naveed
>NIqbal@uh.edu
>
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re memories
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:35:19 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

From: dogar@rtsg.mot.com (Haroon H. Dogar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: memories, like the corners of my ..................


>Sure, we can ADD bandook. And lashkar, and teer, and hockey and ghandaasa. :-)
>And what was gained? Well, in the land where we used to live,
>they are happy that the Muslims have gone. [I know. This isn't what
>Iqbal meant, but it does apply.]

Well Iqbal said a lot of things that we don't get in Pakistan, the Gulistan,
the bulbulz. :)

1947, it was a Human catastrophe(sp) not a Muslim one only. 
It would be sad if it is known for a fact that in your ancestral village,
people celebrated after you left. Stories about refugees vary from 
region to region.


>>I agree completely about the choice and how people spoke for their
>>choice in one voice during Zia's referendum. 
>><insert as many winks here as you want, I am tired>

>Not the same thing. That referendum was viewed as irrelevant because
>it was NOT devoid of a specific implementation. It was viewed as a vote
>for Zia. Still, if the people of Pakistan were as anti-Allah as 
>the secularists would have us believe, they would have come out in
>droves to vote against him. Why didn't people give a damn? They
>said, "Yeah right. Who wants to vote against Allah or for Zia?"


"That referendum was viewed as irrelevant because it was NOT devoid of
a specific implementation." Now I should apologise for the lack of my
english comprehension. Do you honestly believe that the implementation
was meant to enforce to rule of Allah's will and not prolong the
dictatorship. Do you think that the intended implementation was compatible
with the need of the people for rule of Islam i.e would the implementation
not isolate the people further. Are the Pakistani secularists saying
that Pakistan should be anti-Allah or are they saying the fair democratic
consensus(sp) should decide whatever the people want. Is there is difference
between the two or did I miss your point. People in my opinion did not
give a damn because they have enough understanding of the status quo to 
note that Islam is being used. BTW did you know that there were anti-
Zia votes :) and atleast on one occasion when the TV reporters thought
that they were off-the-air, their jokes about announcing the "real results"
made it to the viewers. Election-time is the best time to watch PTV :)

 
>>jehra vi jota maray sir tay, mein tabaydaaran.

>heh?

Oh did I screw that one completely. Sorry I still had the bandook in my
mind :)

>-hd



Naveed
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP)
Subject: Re: fatwa for today
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:42:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.131937.28610@linus.mitre.org>, m21757@mitre.org (G) writes...
>In article <1992Jul21.062422.18946@leland.Stanford.EDU> 
>arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan) writes:
>>       after the tensions in peshawar.
>>         all religious tension between shia's and sunni's must cease.
>>         therefore i ask my followers and brothers and bhabi's
>> 
>>                 all sunni men should marry shia women
>>                 and all shia women should marry sunni men.
>>                                                                 17:6:92
>    
>   So does this mean that shia men should not mary sunni women?
> 

  	All muslim women marry a non-muslim. I am sure you will
        have more fun with them.

Mirza Ilyas

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mmasood@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mohammed A Masood)
Subject: Hockey news
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:08:48 GMT

From: lodhi@seas.gwu.edu (Fakhar Lodhi)
Subject:     1992 Olympics - Men's Hockey Tournament Summary - Correction
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:56:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.190516.19265@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, 
hasnie@ed.ecn.purdue.edu (Rizwan Hasnie) writes:

" If the goal difference is the same then the position is determined by
  the number of goals each team scored. If even the no. of goals scored
  is equal then the position is determined by the result of the match
  between the two tied teams."

Thanks for correction Rizwan!

    1992 Olympics - Men's Hockey Tournament Summary - After 2 Rounds
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                POOL A
                                ------
                                                    GOALS
                                               ---------------
    | ARG    AUS    BRI    EGY    GER    IND  |  for   against   PTS   POSITION
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ARG |  -     0/7                         0/1  |   0       8       0        6
AUS | 7/0     -            5/1                |  12       1       4        1
BRI |                -     2/0    0/2         |   2       2       2        3
EGY |        1/5    0/2     -                 |   1       7       0        5
GER |               2/0            -     3/0  |   5       0       4        2
IND | 1/0                         0/3     -   |   1       3       2        4
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                POOL B
                                ------
                                                     GOALS
                                                ---------------
    | CIS   HOL    MAL    NZ     PAK    SPA   |  for   against   PTS   POSITION
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CIS |  -    2/5    7/3                        |   9       8       2       4
HOL |  5/2   -                          3/2   |   8       4       4       1
MAL |  3/7          -            1/4          |   4      11       0       6
NZ  |                      -     0/1    0/3   |   0       4       0       5
PAK |              4/1    1/0     -           |   5       1       4       2
SPA |        2/3          3/0            -    |   5       3       2       3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fakhar Lodhi
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan