HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz)
Subject: Re: planning for people
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 21:23:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.063155.11389@athena.mit.edu> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.005742.643@nmsu.edu> dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu 
>(Dan Tasman) writes:
>
>> Transportation planners are a different breed than other planning 
>> specialists.
>> 
>> Instead of being concerned about aesthetic, land use and social 
>> concerns, transportation planners have one goal in mind - to get 
>> as many people from one end of the city to the other in as little 
>> time as possible.  Often times, that philosophy runs contrary to 
>> many planning concepts such as neotraditionalism.
>
>Hold on. I don't know if that's completely fair to all transportaton
>planners. I'll give you aesthetic, but I suspect that's mostly just a 

I have to disagree on the aesthetic point...I worked for Caltrans
(California Department of Transportation) where we were working on the
new Los Angeles Metro Rail and Metrolink networks. The stations are
incredible! Marble all over the place, 3% of the total budget
dedicated to public artworks in the stations etc.

One station that stands out is MacArthur Park. There are these Neon
artworks all over the station, very tasteful in my opinion. One
station even has a skylight with some modern artwork in the middle. 

Agreed that historically subway stations were built to serve their
purpose. Look at New York and London...Nevertheless, I think there is
definitely movement among transportation planners to improve
aesthetics. Personally I think it is all a waste of money. While my
professors would rave about older buildings, I personally like the
modern downtown building..the 60 story with black (don't care for
mirrored) windows and a company logo at the top. I guess the bottom
line is personal taste.

Eric
______________________________________________________________________________
|__Eric LeSatz_________________[]{}  I've got seven in the clip and one      |
|__elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu___[]{}  in the chamber. Will that be enough??   |
==============================================================================
From: bc151@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ken Fisler)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: List for the Discussion of the Presidential Campaign
Date: 12 Sep 1992 08:05:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu



I thought this might be of interest to members of this
newsgroup:

There is now on Bitnet a list for the discussion of the '92
presidential campaign. Discussion is unmoderated and focusses
primarily on important, current campaign issues, though, like the
campaign itself, some discussion occasionally degrades to
spurious non-issues. Threads sometimes lead into critical
analyses of political history, the media, and campaign
strategies. Many members of this list post exerpts from books,
magazines, journals, newspapers, television reportage, and
academic studies as well as the full text of position papers and
speeches given by the candidates. A meaningful number of list
members understand the inherent union of theory and praxis and,
given the nature of the discussions, the flame level is very
tolerably and surprisingly low. If all you've heard and read thus
far hasn't parted the sea of sound bites, if you're looking for
information and analysis of current issues or have something to
give or express yourself, this may be a viable group to join.

To subscribe, send to: LISTSERV@MARIST (from a Bitnet address)
or LISTSERV@MARIST.BITNET (from and Internet address) the
message: SUB CLINTON <your first name> <your last name>


	Internet:	bc151@cleveland.freenet.edu
	Bitnet: 	bc151%cleveland.freenet.edu@cunyvm
	Audio:		Ken Fisler
From: ecixdy@igc.apc.org (Energy and Climate Information Exch)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re: Planning Humor
Date: 11 Sep 92 04:08:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Sep10.002615.28297@infonode.:162372363:cdp:1665900005:000:123
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ecixdy    Sep 10 21:08:00 1992


Q: What is an engineer?

A: A person who is good with numbers but who doesn't
   have the personality to be an accountant.
From: ajpbart@adam.adelaide.edu.au (Paul Barter)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Pedestrian Pockets
Summary: Peter Newman and Jeff Kenworthy call them Urban Villages
Keywords: Transit Villages, Urban Villages
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:33:06 GMT
Organization: The University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: adam.adelaide.edu.au

sod@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Sean M O Donnell) writes:

>From article <LANCER.92Sep4160611@emilio.WPI.EDU>, by lancer@emilio.WPI.EDU (Stephe Lewis Foskett):
>>>>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron Priven <fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu> writes:
>> Aaron> Hi.  The Oakland local paper recently had an article on
>> Aaron> transit villages -- transit-centered high-density development.
>>
>> I believe another name for these are "Pedestrian Pockets".  High-density,
>> small area villages centered around commuter-rail lines.  There was a
>> conference about them a few years ago and a book produced after called "The
>> Pedestrian Pocket Book"  It's on Princeton Press.
>>
>> Anyone know more about these?  Were they built?  If so, were they
>> successful?  Please post more info!


Peter Newman and Jeff Kenworthy call them Urban Villages. In their definition
they are compact, mixed use developments centred on rail transit, with quite
high density development and strong traffic calming.

In their recent booklet, Winning Back the Cities (Australian Consumers
Association and Pluto Press, Leichhardt, NSW, 1992) they cite a number of
examples.

Their most glowing praise is for Arabella Park in Munich. It has extensive
car-free areas, 10,000 residents, 18,000 workers and 2,000 hotel rooms.
Other smaller urban villages in Munich are Zamilla Park and Germering.

They also give Stockholm's satellite centres the title of urban village. All
are of high density, walkable and clustered around a rail station.

Apparently Vancouver, British Colombia also has a number of urban villages.
These are New Westminster at what used to be the terminus of the Skytrain,
Metrotown (about 15km along the Skytrain route), West End (next to Stanley
park) and False Creek (on the waterfront opposite downtown Vancouver).

Other examples of Urban Villages that the authors mention are River Place,
Portland, Oregon and Mission Bay in San Francisco.

From the descriptions these seem to be "Pedestrian Pockets" or "Transit
Villages".  They are described by Newman and Kenworthy as being highly
successful.

Paul Barter
Adelaide University
ajpbart@adam.adelaide.edu.au
Xref: sparky alt.planning.urban:172 talk.environment:3609 sci.environment:11147
From: u8653100@keystone.arch.unsw.edu.au (Dennis Lu)
Subject: New alt group for architecture
Reply-To: u8653100@keystone.arch.unsw.edu.au
Organization: Faculty of Architecture, University of New South Wales
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:35:27 GMT

To everyone at the alt.planning.urban group,

This is a request for discussion on a new alt.architecture group.

A posposal for creating alt.architecture has been posted to alt.config, 
we would like people to comment on the poposal. Anyone interested in this 
should response to alt.config.

Thanks!

Dennis Lu
for the school of architecture,
University of New South Wales,
Australia.
From: dtasman@NMSU.edu (Dan Tasman)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Bashing Transportation Planners :)
Keywords: freeway, pavement, concrete, ADT, nice n' wide, what landscaping?
Date: 12 Sep 92 20:10:22 GMT
Organization: New Mexico State University

Okay, I didn't want to get the impression that I was slamming transportation  
planners a while back ... I didn't get any flames, but I might have deserved  
them.  Not all the transpo planners I know are "tear it all down and pave it  
all over" types, but there are a few that think more limited access highways  
are the solution to all our urban ills, just as there are comprehensive  
planners that believed razing inner city neighborhoods was the key to urban  
revitalization in the 1960s.  

Anyhow, I was talking with out department't transportation planner, and we came  
up with a theory ... a good road network equals low housing prices.  There are  
other factors that go into this, like the amount of land available for  
development and the whether a city has one or many "downtowns".  Public transit  
is normally not a factor, unfortunatly. When the theory is applied to many  
North American cities, it seems to hold true.

EXAMPLE - New York City, San Francisco, Toronto.  Congested highway networks,  
limited land for new development, large downtown and limited satelite  
"downtowns".  Home prices are astronomical.

EXAMPLE - Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington.  Congested highway networks,  
adequate land on urban fringe available for new development, large downtown and  
extensive satelite centers.  Home prices are expensive, but not unaffordable by  
most middle and upper middle income residents.

EXAMPLE - Houston.  Congested highway networks, commercial development spread  
throughout city with no real central node, and unlimited land on urban fringe,  
as well as close to the city center, available for development.  Real estate  
prices, even during the oil boom, were fairly reasonable.

EXAMPLE - Buffalo, Cleveland, Kansas City.  Extensive highway networks with  
litle congestion. Extensive land available for development on urban fringe.   
Downtown centered, with growing "edge cities".  Real estate is very affordable  
(although Buffalo is beginning to get expensive, because it is almost  
considered a suburb or Toronto, with outrageous home prices).

There are bound to be some exceptions, but look at it this way ... make your  
transportation network fail, have a strong downtown, and watch those real  
estate prices rise ...

--
   Dan Tasman                                       dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu
                                                     molson@rever.nmsu.edu
   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
   "I think that I shall never see a billboard lovely as a tree
    Indeed, unless the billboards fall, I'll never see a tree at all."
                                                                Ogden Nash
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: perkinsh@infonode.ingr.com (Hilary Perkins)
Subject: Planning Humor
Keywords: funny planning definitions
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:26:15 GMT


This was given to me recently, and I found it quite funny.
Hope you all do too: ... (posted w/o permission)

From the "New York Planner", Upstate New York Chapter, APA,
Volume 6, Number 5, September/October 1991.

ONLY PLANNERESE SPOKEN HERE
---------------------------

It had to happen -- someone finally figured out that planners,
like doctors and lawyers, have a lingo all their own that few
others can really understand.  Given that some planners don't
know quite everything, the following highlights are offered from
*Plannerese*, the first semi-authoritative dictionary by, for,
and about planners.

AICP:  Any Idiot Can Plan

Administrative Guerilla:  A professional who works through the
system to achieve personal goals in conflict with those of the
organization.

Analysis Paralysis:  An inability to make a decision due to excess
effort in studying an issue.

Bid:  A wild guess carried out to two decimal places.

Budget:  A spending program computed in red ink.

City:  Modern center of congestion, noise, and pollution.

Consultant:  Someone who borrows your watch, tells you what time
it is, and then bills you for it.

Controlled growth:  A belief that calls for regulation while
permitting additional construction.  Generally held by elected
officials and parents whose grown children can't move out 
because they can't find affordable housing.

Engineer's Estimate:  The cost of construction in heaven.

Low Bidder:  A consultant wondering what he's left out.

Life:  What happens while we're planning.

No Growth:  A belief that no futher building should be permitted
anywhere until all existing problems have been solved.  Usually
held by a homeowner who thinks that the last truly justified
construction project was the building of his house.

Open Space:  Undevelopable land.

Plannette:  A small plan, planling.  "Make no plannettes."

Pro Growth:  A belief that construction should be regulated by
the free market, and that building, safety, and zoning codes
are communist plots.

Specialist:  A person who offeres limited services for unlimited
fees.

Tentative Map:  An experimental map on trial.


Hilary
-- 
| perkinsh@infonode.ingr.com  
| hilary e. h. perkins                                  blond is a haircolor
| arizona state university                             blonde is a lifestyle 
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: dtasman@NMSU.edu (Dan Tasman)
Subject: Re: Planning Humor
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 19:54:59 GMT

I don't know if they're still in print, but a while ago the APA bookstore had  
two books of planning comics.  One was titles "Stop Me Before I Plan Again!"  
and the title of the other book escapes me.  

If anyone has one or both of these books, I have but one thing to say ...

GIF!  GIF!  GIF!  GIF!  GIF!  GIF!

--
   Dan Tasman                                       dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu
                                                     molson@rever.nmsu.edu
   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
   "I think that I shall never see a billboard lovely as a tree
    Indeed, unless the billboards fall, I'll never see a tree at all."
                                                                Ogden Nash
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:04:36 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <BuDBns.Aw4@acsu.buffalo.edu>, rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. 
Romanowski) writes:
> 	Well, you could go to Alaska with a 7.65 mm and shoot down the
> damn airplanes ... and anybody who crawls out of them alive ...
> 
> 	... but assuming you don't have an automatic weapon handy, you 
> could do something more constructive ... like sabotage the planes on 
> the ground.

For Pete's sake, don't add to the problem by suggesting that someone
start a war against light aircraft.  Why not just write down the N-number
(or CF number if canadian) and turn 'em in?

You sound like the Customs department! (they want to shoot down light
aircraft too).

Not to mention that the crime associated with sabotage of an aircraft is
murder if it results in death...


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
From: pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: I'm with Brent [was Re: Working with Wolves]
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:33:08 CDT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

I'm going to have to agree with Brent on alot of the stuff.

Although, I do not feel that violence is the answer, I sometimes feel 
that the people that hunt and kill wolves need to have the same done to 
them.

Also, Brent is highly against house breaking wolves and keeping them as
pets.  I agree here as well.

No offense to anyone on the net, but I am a purist and I do not think that
wolves should be purposefully crossed with dogs for the sake of having a
neat near-wolf pet.

Part of the decline in the wolf population is due to cross breeding with
wild dogs, but more so with coyotes (the Desert and Canyon wolves in
particular).  Of course, if humans had not killed so many of the wolves
there may not have been a need to cross-breed to propigate their line.
But as it is now, MANY entire sub-species of wolves have been pushed
into extinction and no amount of cross-breeding will bring them back.
Not saying that your purposes in cross-breeding is to get a certain
species (extinct or not), but I believe that it will only contribute 
to forming new breeds of canines . . . NOT wolves.  And they are NOT 
wolves.

I think we need to concentrate on preserving the species of wolves that
nature has provided without the added confusion and trouble of "making"
new species.

As I said, I mean no offense to anyone.  These are my feelings and opinions.
I ask no one to like, accept, or believe them, except myself.  I feel the
same for others opinions.  I may not believe in what is being done, but
I will not criticize anyone for it.

If we could get the world to set aside the bitterness over differing 
opinions, maybe we could all learn from each other and start to get this
world back in order.


Chris


ps - I am impressed by Brent.  Not all people are willing to stand up for 
     what they believe in, especially in the face of public opposition.
From: pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Working with Wolves
Date: 9 Sep 92 09:57:36 CDT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

Hi!

Anyone else out there interested in working with wolves as a career (or
already working with them)?

I am currently working on a double major in Biology and Chemistry.  I would
like to work with mammals, in particular, endagered species.  But my ultimate
goal in life is to work with wolves (hence I am posting to alt.wolves).

I am not sure exactly what I would be doing with them, but I like the stuff 
that L. David Mech has done.

Any thoughts, suggestions, or comments?

Thanks,

Chris
From: 1012breuckma@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: wolves in wyoming
Date: 14 Sep 1992 13:10:21 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 1012breuckma@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsa.csd.mu.edu

   JACKSON, Wyo. (AP) -- Jogging along a winding dirt road on
Jackson's outskirts, Renee Askins sometimes lets out a few howls to
rouse the coyotes that roam the foothills of the Teton Mountains.  
   "I'm a real good coyote howler," the 33-year-old Michigan
transplant said. "The coyotes answer me all the time." 
   What she longs most to hear, though, is the mournful reply of a
gray wolf. The predator hasn't made the greater Yellowstone area home
since the late 1920s when an aggressive federal government campaign
succeeded in exterminating the animal in the West.  
   The 1973 federal Endangered Species Act sought to reverse that
earlier move. But with no resident wolves yet in sight, in 1986
Askins created The Wolf Fund, a nonprofit lobbying enterprise.  
   The fund is devoting solely to seeing wolves returned to the
Yellowstone ecosystem, which includes Yellowstone and Grand Teton
national parks and surrounding national forests in Wyoming, Montana
and Idaho. The fund also publishes a newsletter and has a mailing
list of about 7,000 names, though there is no formal membership.
Support comes from private donors and foundations.  
   Askins' efforts have raised more than money. Her cause has
attracted people like Joseph Marshall. A member of the Sioux Indian
tribe in South Dakota, he sometimes joins Askins' in public speaking
engagements to talk about the wolf from the American Indian
perspective.  
   Askins also enlisted support for the wolf from people like Robert
Redford, who narrates a public service announcement for the fund. The
actor-director's involvement encouraged Cable News Network owner Ted
Turner, who has a ranch in Montana, to air the spot.  
   The Wolf Fund's advisory board reads like a Who's Who of
conservationists. Members include: writer Peter Matthiessen; wolf
biologist David Mech; and geologist David Love, the subject of John
McPhee's book "Rising From the Plains."  
   Askins said she has focused on restoring the wolf to what she
considers its rightful place because the goal is achievable. "We need
these things that heal us," she said.  
   The ecological arguments for returning the wolf to Yellowstone is
compelling enough, she said. "It (Yellowstone) does have every
original plant and animal species -- except the wolf."  
   While the wolf's numbers are growing in Canada and Alaska, their
populations are small in the Lower 48, chiefly in northwestern
Montana and Minnesota. Packs have also been spotted in Idaho.  
   The 1973 federal Endangered Species Act requires the government to
rebuild the wolf population.  
   That it hasn't yet, Askins and others in the pro-wolf cause blame
on politics since the sound of a wolf's howl would hardly delight
many ranchers and hunters in Wyoming, Montana and Idaho.  
   "If the wolf comes, it is just one more straw that will hurt this
state -- I'm talking economically," said Carolyn Paseneaux, director
of the Wyoming Wool Growers Association.
From: allenmk@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Allen Melinda Kay)
Subject: Hello!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 17:24:06 GMT


It's great to find a group for people who love wolves!  My best friend and I
have been working out stories about wolves for about eight years now--the
People of the Wolves are the central characters in our fantasy world of Xavion.
If anyone is interested in hearing more, let me know!

Melinda Allen
-- 
Melinda K. Allen                  The LORD is close to the brokenhearted 
allenmk@ucsu.colorado.edu       and saves those who are crushed in spirit.   
allenmk@tramp.colorado.edu			               Psalm 34:18
From: noah@acsu.buffalo.edu (Philip D. Noah)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: a point was RE: Working with Wolves
Summary: a mistake that I'd like to point out
Date: 13 Sep 92 16:24:21 GMT
Organization: UB

Just a quick point. I've never heard of a 7.65 there is a 7.62 and a 6.5
but as far as I know no 7.65 unless it's some odd ball that I don't know about.

Philip D. Noah
Dept of Anthropology,
SUNY at Buffalo NY
380 Fillmore (MFAC)
Amherst, NY
noah@acsu.buffalo.edu

c
From: v094lrtr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Brent Fiene)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:48:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep10.184445.25108@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, motto@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto) writes...
>In article <BuDBns.Aw4@acsu.buffalo.edu> rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski) writes:
>>pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>>
>>>Hi!
>>
>>>Anyone else out there interested in working with wolves as a career (or
>>>already working with them)?
>>
>>	Well, you could go to Alaska with a 7.65 mm and shoot down the
>>damn airplanes ... and anybody who crawls out of them alive ...
>>
>>	... but assuming you don't have an automatic weapon handy, you 
>>could do something more constructive ... like sabotage the planes on 
>>the ground.
>(some more suggestions deleted)
>>
>>OWooOOOOOoooooOOOO
>>Rick
>Rick -
>Why do you advocate killing of humans?  Why do you advocate sabotage?
>Don't humans have a right to live that is equal to the wolves?  Aren't
>humans part of the animal kingdom?
>Mary Otto

saying that hunting is legal is saying that we are a superior species.
we have alot to learn from wolves(and other species). i advocate the
hunting and killing of sane murderers who kill for the fun of it. if you
dont like it... go to hell!

-brent
Newsgroups: alt.wolves