HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hoagy@engin.umich.edu (Matthew Rupert)
Subject: Re: 2 questions.  Please read.
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 08:53:04 EDT
Organization: Kampus Krusade for Kush
Keywords: stretching, sparring

>|> 	In the unfortunate event that you're attacked, say on the street somewhere, and you're not stretched out, as you would be before and during training, how do you deal with it?  Obviously, kicks aren't going to be as high,
>|> and the danger of a sprain or tear is much higher.  How do you cope?  Any special ideas out there?

I've never known anyone in their lives to use a high kick effectively
in any sudden fight/attack situation.  If they tell you they high kicked
someonme during a panic fight, they are either lying, or the attacker
was brain dead and just stood there.  Initially, you will not react with
a roundhouse to the head.  Rather, you'll try to get into a good defensive
and start with punches and low kicks to the knees/shins.  

I've been a bouncer for 7 years, and a martial-artist for 12.  I've
never, ever had a chance to use a kick.  Those that have told me different,
and those of you who would tell me "Well, *I* could kick them, and *I*
would hit them with my super-high roundhouse" have never been in a
fight one day in their lives.

Isshin-Ryu is the style I practice(with 2 years of Kung Fu as well).
Low kicking is the staple of the IR at first, until you get better
at high kicks as you practice.   Myself, I'm not a high kicker, and
cannot side kick more than half my body height(I'm 6'5").  I can
front kick to my nose-height, but that's it, and I'd NEVER try it in
a bar figt, much less a street encounter.  Punching is usually
your best route, as you get close to them, they limit themselves
in wat they can do, since they're not adept at in-fighting as you and
I might be.  A good takedown will always help here as well, as you
can get 'em down, and start with knees, eye and throat gouges.
(Hey, if they want you hurt, you hurt them to STOP them, not just
 get in one lick and get up...they want you DEAD if need be!)


-- 
================================================================================
Matt Rupert	System Administrator	Anubis		 | Send money now
hoagy@ais.org   hoagy@[m-net,grex,anubis].ann-arbor.mi.us| or I'll kill you.
"I'm not arrogant, I'm just a whole lot better than you."| Really. I mean it.
From: sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fashions (was: Black Belt)
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:14:29 GMT
Organization: Comp & Comm - Telecommunications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
>         speaking of which, has anyone ironed/drycleaned a hakama? "don't, or
> the pleats will go!" shrieked a black belt when i asked him. "never
> have...ever" is the other comment i have heard. 
> 

	Well, due to bad folding technique, I almost lost all the
pleats in my hakama, so one day I grabbed the iron and ironed the
pleats back into the hakama.
	It worked. Just make sure that you iron it *with* the pleats.

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: multiple opponents; combat vs. self-defense
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:09:37 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <barry.703210860@citr.uq.oz.au> barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson) writes:
>keeping one of them between yourself and the rest of the group.  If you
>can hit him/her (pick the weakest one :^) and end his/her day, then
                           ^^^^^^^
Funny, my teacher always recommends the opposite. Take the biggest,
strongest, baddest, loudest, etc. first, in hopes of taking out the
ringleader.

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: CADS_COLE@GALLUA.BITNET (Kevin Cole; Washington DC)
Subject: Re: Request:  Strange MA styles
Organization: Gallaudet Research Institute
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 14:33:30 GMT

In article <1992Apr17.052815.12404@wam.umd.edu>, napalm@next06pg2.wam.umd.edu
(Warren L. Mohn) writes: 

> I'm interested in learning something about "strange" Martial arts  
> disciplines.  What I mean by strange is disciplines that are not the  
> normal fare taught in the U.S. I want to know if anybody has information  
> concerning styles that may have originated in India, Cambodia, Thailand,  
> etc.  Or ANYWHERE as long as it's not the normal fare.  The stranger the  
> better, but it has to be a recognized, settled discipline.  Please email  
> me telling me what you know, books i could get, etc. Or post it.

Last year, a friend of mine let me borrow two books.  If I recall correctly,
one was called "Asian Fighting Arts", and the other was "The Way of the 
Warrior".  Since I was skimming through both, simultaneously, I've gotten the 
details a bit jumbled, but one of them convered Indian (as in from India, not 
Native American), martial arts, still practiced in India at the time of 
publication.
-- 

 ========== U.S. Mail =============================== E-Mail =================
 Kevin Cole      <Flatline>           |  Bitnet: CADS_COLE@GALLUA.BITNET
 Gallaudet Research Institute  (GRI)  |  Internet: KJCOLE@GALLUX.GALLAUDET.EDU
 Washington, D.C.  20002-3625         |  UUCP: ...!psuvax!gallua.bitnet!kjcole
 (202) 651-5575  x4592                |  The WELL:   kjcole
From: rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:47:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: batcomfs

In article <4900@igor.Rational.COM> jquarant@mipos3.intel.com (James Quarant) writes:
>+In article <1992Apr5.040743.23510@cs.brown.edu> tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
>+>
>+>   A good, but subtle example is Smith's description of the Chinese long
>+>   double-edged sword.  He writes to the effect that "the Chinese learned
>+>   (as later did the European fencers) that the point of the sword was more
>+>   effective in attacking and keeping the opponent at bay than the cutting
>+>   edge."

    That could be because a double edged blade has less cutting ability
    than a flat ground single edged blade.
>+>
>+>   Oh really?  I guess a couple dozen generations of Samurai just couldn't
>+>   figure it out huh?  The reason that the Chinese and Europeans often (note
>+>   I say often) preferred straight swords is because they never developed
>+>   the cutting edge technology (no pun intended) that the Japanese smiths
>+>   did.  A katana or tachi can slash the wrist of a fencer in a sweeping
>+>   motion before the tip of a long sword would be able to reach the
>+>   kenjutsuka's body.
>+
>+Excuse me, but why does the fencer have to go after the body?  Epee

    yeah.  Other issues such as the type of armour which the opponents
    wore, and the style of warefare, might have something to do with it.

>	[deleted]
>
>True.  In fact, at my old fencing club we pitted a sabre against an epee
>(using epee targets, ie. a touch *anywhere* scored).  The sabre and epee
>fencers were always arguing which was the most effective weapon--the
>point weapon or the edge weapon.  We found that the epee won 75% of the
>time.  Typically, as soon as the sabreist took his point off target to
>deliver a cut, the epeeist could simply thrust into the sabreist's
>attacking arm.  If the epee  thrust missed, then the sabreist often
>scored.  Even then, the epee blade was plenty strong enough to parry
>sabre cuts.

    A point worth mentioning is that a puncture wound, such as is induced
    by a foil, does not inflict the damage that a slashing wound will.
    People who were stuck by piercing type European swords reportedly
    lingered for days, weeks, or even longer, after losing a battle/bout.
    People who sustain slashing wounds die much quicker, and cutting
    tendons/muscles, or lopping off limbs, better guarantees that the
    oppenent is not going to come back at you and kill you, AFTER you've
    already inflicted a fatal wound on him/her.
--
    Robert Allen, rja@sun.com		DISCLAIMER: I said it, not my company.

    "Traditionalists often study what is taught, not what there is to create."
			     - Ed Parker, Grandmaster, American Kenpo.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 11:34:14 -0400 
From: Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: What's the point?

fax0243@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>         Probably the closest we have ever come to actually covering anything
> about what the whole deal with this karate thing is was when our
> instructor Rod started reading _Zen In the Martial Arts_ to us.
> Unfortunately some mom in the kids class got ticked off because she
> thought he was teaching "eastern religion" or something...

	I remember riding a train home for Xmas, and getting into a talk
with a Born Again Christian. She showed me this book which basically
claimed that all Eastern martial arts were cults - she basically
believed everything in that book, without question.
	At the time, I was still in Aikido (big no-no in her book)
	Hopefully the fact that I didn't carry a pitchfork and try to
steal her baby gave her a new perspective. She was nice lady, and we
got along well - even though I'm one of those MA cultists, and, just
as bad, a Catholic!

>         Bringing me to my point... What do you all get out of karate? I have
> three things that I think most people get out of karate no matter what style or
> school they come from. Those are: 1). Self defense abilities, 2). Self-esteem
> (at least a little), 3). More or less physical fitness.
> 

	They're three of the big reasons I started training.
	But for me, there's a certain inherent pleasure in practicing
the martial arts - irrespective of style or technique.
	And I keep studying because I hope someday to teach MA,
and help to preserve something, which (I feel at least) is very
valuable and enriching.

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]
From: Darrin_Hyrup@sorinc.UUCP (Darrin Hyrup)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Black Belt (not what you think)
Date: 6 Apr 92 00:53:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: sorinc.Darrin_Hyrup.0023
Organization: Shades of Reality BBS

In a message dated Sun  5 Apr 92 06:40, Jm50+@andrew.cmu.edu wrote:

 > On the other hand:
 > I sometimes would prefer that people didn't know I practiced
 > MA. It seems to activate the dork zone in some people's brains.
 > "I guess you're pretty tough, huh?"
 > "Must do it to let out your frustrations, huh?"
 > Or, the worse is when people expect you to be their "hatchet
 > man" to handle confrontations.

 JPM> Tell me about it. When I got my yellow belt, MY OWN BROTHER told me,
 JPM> "I'll start taking you seriously when you can kick my ass." I know he
 JPM> was joking to some extent, but on a certain level, I'm sure he did
 JPM> mean it.

Funny you should mention that.  I had the same thing happen to me when I
got my Yellow belt in Kenpo.  In fact, my brother still has that attitude,
while I am now a purple belt.  Of course, he's a hulking 6'1" 250lb
monster, who has thinks he's a bad-ass. :)  While I'm 3" shorter, and
lighter than him.

Of course, I have chosen not to get into a situation where one of us had to
prove who is 'tougher.'  :)  (Nor do I plan to any time soon.)

 JPM> You also forgot the people who confuse movies and TV with real life:
 JPM> "So when do you learn to catch the fly with chopsticks/walk on rice
 JPM> paper/break cinder blocks/walk on hot coal/etc.?"

Hehe, haven't had that problem yet.  But sometimes I get the "Hey, lets see
ya use those sticks again" or something along that line.

Best,

          Darrin

-- Via DLG Pro v0.991

==========================================================================
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From: sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: multiple opponents; combat vs. self-defense
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:30:32 GMT
Organization: Comp & Comm - Telecommunications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
>   If, however, you have two attackers attacking *simultaneously*, they
>   are not going to do this.  They are probably going to crowd you real 
>   close, then jump on you together.

	Well, if you let them jump you simultaneously, then you
deserve to get whacked around a bit ;-)
	From what I understand, if you have 2 or more opponents, you
pick one of them (hopefully the weakest one), attack him/her (as
opposed to waiting for them to attack you), and hopefully toss them
into the position which you previously occupied.

>  You can hit one, but then you will
>   be in a grappling match with the other almost immediately.  And if you
>   haven't taken the first one out ("one punch = one kill"), then it's
>   two on one (actually "two on top of" one).

	I think the important thing is to change the distance so that
you they _cannot_ attack you simultaneously, and, get out of the
circle ASAP.

>   This is not as mystical as it sounds.  In fact, one quickly learns
>   that it is the only way to do it.  If any other arts seriously train 
>   against multiple opponents, I'd like to hear about them (I do not
>   consider most forms of two-on-one sparring to count, for the reasons 
>   given above.)
> 
	Just last Saturday we had a sort of "free for all" sparring in
the dojo. We started out paired off for flow sparring, then it became
every man for himself. Fun and educational.
	Even a basic kata like Pinan 1 is patterned after defense from
multiple opponents.

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]
From: D_NOLAN@unhh.unh.edu (David J Nolan)
Subject: On choosing a martial art
Organization: University of New Hampshire
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 19:44:32 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.12





Ahem.

I see a lot of Aikido branding going on out there ;>

...I see a lot of people "wondering where to start" in the MAs
and I have to leave my $0.02

First of all, I see some people wanting Jiu-Jitsu or Aikido 
"techniques" because they don't want to damage people.

Any technique (with minimal exceptions) can be used to either
subdue an opponent without permanent damage OR kill them, OR
worse.

Aikido demonstrations usually are an impressive display involving
three our four attackers each taking their turn against a 
competent practitioner; they usually wind up either politely 
guided to the mat or tumbling off in another direction, up 
agian, attacking again, and the cycle continues until it's clear
nobody is going to touch the bad boy in the middle.  ;<

Ever throw someone who *didn't* know anything about landing (except
that you DO INDEED hit the planet)??  Most muggers and assailants
I've dealt with don't have the first clue what to do when their a**
is traveling faster than their head (and higher).

On finding a school that's right for you, here's my advice:

(1) visit all the schools you can
(2) get to know the instructors and students...see if the students are 
    happy and disciplined and respectful of the sensei
(3) sit in on a few classes or just watch.

This is important, because PERHAPS Arnis or Muay Thai or Greenoch happens
to be "the art for YOU" but there really aren't any qualified OR
properly disciplined schools...and you'd be doing what suited you best,
but you might not be happy (and that's the point, right?  to feel
worthwhile?  If class isn't the best part of your day (on bad days anyway)
something's wrong, and it'll be harder to build your commitment level)

(4) Give it a serious try:  does it HURT?
(4a) Talk to a physician...maybe one that knows sports medicine even...

Remember:  Try SOMETHING...it should benefit you in one way or another...
at the very least you'll learn what you DON'T want to do.

Reading this and other posts isn't going to help you (and I'm talking to 
the REAL beginners here) as much as getting out there...

Anything you train is going to beat Mtv and potato chips ;>

Besides, any *good* instructor will listen to you, and if he doesn't
offer what you're looking for, he will help you find it.

Or you or anyone can e-mail me or someone else that seems to know 
what they're talking about (oops...I think I implied too much about
my stooopid head ;>

Again...turn OFF the Jetsons and GET OUT THERE  ;>  ;>  ;>


Dave
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: How to choose a Martial Art discipline?
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:43:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Apr11.200305.25066@walter.cray.com> radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner) writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.202737.24494@bnr.ca> naldrett@bcarh893.bnr.ca (Steve Naldrett) writes:
>
>>      S - tae-kwon do, judo, karate
>                              ^^^^^^
>
>               ARARARARRAGGGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>

Followed by:
>               ARARARARRAGGGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>               ARARARARRAGGGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>               ARARARARRAGGGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>               ARARARARRAGGGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>               ARARARARRAGGGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>-Lauren

Not only that, but karate will give you the loudest net.kiai on the block!

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schmburg@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Greg Schomburg )
Subject: Re: novice to master of basics to novice
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 14:34:56 GMT

drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:

>In article <1992Apr14.142435.26383@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> brankin@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (william.t.rankin) writes:
>>2) One school that I used to study at had all women close the front of
>>   their keiko-gis (uhm, doboks ;) in the opposite direction of the men.
>>   (ie. right flap over left as opposed to left over right)  much like
>>   the buttons on mens vs. womens shirts.  I never asked at the time, but
>>   is this normal/traditional/reasonable?  Sounds like a silly question,
>>   but I've always wanted to know...

>I was told by an advanced Aikido instructor that left over right is
>traditional in Japan.  He also said that only cadavers were clothed
>the other way. Guess how the subject came up.  Yep, for perhaps the
>only time in my life, I was wearing my gi right over left and he
>spied me out.  Anyone else heard of this alleged tradition?
>--
>Richard A. Drury                                    drury@helix.nih.gov
>National Institutes of Health                                   

	I always thought that the traditional left-over-right style of 
wearing the gi was so that Mr. Samurai didn't get his sword caught in
the flap as he was drawing it.  One mishap like this could end a promising
career in a hurry!

	We also traditionally kneel to seiza with the left leg first and
bow by touching the right hand to the mat first for the same reason - the
sword would be more accessible if trouble suddenly broke out.
                              
-- 
greg schomburg                          If we shadows have offended,
schmburg@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu             Think but this and all is mended,
schom@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu                That you have but slum'bred here
                                      While these visions did appear.  
Organization: Comp & Comm - Telecommunications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Thu,  9 Apr 1992 21:41:42 -0400 
From: Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.

jquarant@mipos3.intel.com (James Quarant) writes:
>   The sabre and epee
> fencers were always arguing which was the most effective weapon--the
> point weapon or the edge weapon.  We found that the epee won 75% of the
> time.  Typically, as soon as the sabreist took his point off target to
> deliver a cut, the epeeist could simply thrust into the sabreist's
> attacking arm.  If the epee  thrust missed, then the sabreist often
> scored.  Even then, the epee blade was plenty strong enough to parry
> sabre cuts.

	Two comments:
	1) The epee, with little modification, might be used as a
weapon. The sabre, would have to gain a LOT of weight before it'd be
an effective weapon.
	2) Unless my memory fails me, the epee is longer than the
sabre, which, in the hands of a skilled fencer, should be a great
advantage. I'll check it out next Monday.

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: Posting guidelines
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 13:44:17 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Summary:  observation...
Followup-To:      doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>
Keywords: not really...

In article <shv4eINNqms@agate.berkeley.edu> upload@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:

>In article <8235@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>>In article <sgfapINNln4@agate.berkeley.edu> upload@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
>>>The idea is this:  no one will be permitted to write declarative sentences 
>>>about any art unless they have personally trained in it for at least a
>>>month.
>>
>>If we made it two months, then you couldn't post any such statements
>>about Aikido!?
>
>Fine.
>
>I'm willing to give up my rights to pontificate about Aikido in exchange for
>little sense and order around here.

	this is got to be a joke, right!?  it is, isn't it???  i sure as
hell hope so.  
	i feel that anyone should be able to post their opinions, whatever,
at any time or level.  just be prepared to be challenged.  that is the
ONLY acceptable forem.  to be responsible for your own actions.... or
posts.  if you say something controvercial or unsupported, be prepared for
the feedback, or responses.  i have not always agreed with some of the
posters either in form or content, but they have every right to their
opinions, and if they post something i disagree with or don't approve of
i make my feelings known.  this is how it should be.  often a beginner
will ask a foolish question, or make a foolish remark, based on poor
traing, incomplete knowledge, or general misconception.  that is perfectly
acceptable.  that person will (hopefully) be corrected and learn.  don't
start that censor or censure crap here.
	thanks, and now you know *MY* opinion on this matter... take it
for what it's worth...
	and, as always, i am/at:

	     doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


	-=-< you are free to dissent without prejudice.... >-=-


From: jat@hpcuhb.cup.hp.com (Joseph Talmadge)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:03:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Bruce Lee on...(oh jeez, now it's Jackie!!)
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>another, Wang Su Ping (also famous)... the list goes on.  Plus! There is
>another phenomenon in China: take for example the story of Wang Su Ping, who
>is famous for having taken challenges of all kinds for years, winning against
>this humungous Russian fighter at one point, etc., only to be humbled
>completely by some unknown from the countryside who managed to seriously
>bruise his chest with what appeared to be a slight touch.

Hmm.  Aren't you the person who told a story about beginners with
6-months experience beating up experienced Thai fighters?

C'mon.  How many of these ridiculous stories do you really believe?
Next thing you know, we'll hear about the heart-pull.


Joe, who has no opinion in the Bruce Lee debate
jat@cup.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts