HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jonb@Ingres.COM (Jon Berger)
Subject: Re: Glad this group exists
Reply-To: jonb@ingres.com
Organization: Ingres, an ASK Company
Distribution: usa
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:44:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul17.013050.21312@csc.ti.com>, moiram@sacajawea.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Moira Mallison) writes:
>In article <83042@netnews.upenn.edu>, crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>
>>> So anyway.  My life is, I think, at the healthiest and most
>>> difficult it's ever been.  And now I want to start looking
>>> at my eating and doing something about it.  I'm not sure
>>> where to begin.  I read the book "Diets Don't Work" and agreed
>>> with a great deal of it.  Any feedback on that?
>
>There are a few of us who have the opinion that learning to eat in a
>more healthy manner  doesn't have to include deprivation, but there's
>not a lot of support for that idea here.  I had a very good experience
>applying the Diets Don't Work principles to my life.  Recently, I've
>been involved in a similar program developed by Geneen Roth, Breaking
>Free from Compulsive Eating, and change is occurring, gradually.

I'm sure Roth must be a constant topic of conversation here, so my
apologies if I'm raking up an old tired subject, but, having just started
reading this group and having just read "Breaking Free from Compulsive
Eating", I'm very curious as to whether anyone has had any success with
her program.  I have mixed feelings about her; much of what she says
strikes a very responsive chord, and then much of the rest of what she
says sounds suspiciously like "Just learn to be comfortable with the way
you look and everything will be fine."  Also, I confess I was put off by
what seemed to be a conscious decision on her part to exclude men from
her audience, but, annoying as it is, that's something that we male
people just have to put up with, I guess.  Anyway.  Success stories?
Horror stories?  Cautionary tales?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Berger     jonb@ingres.com     {mtxinu,sun,amdahl,pyramid}!ingres!jonb
"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over." 
                                         -- Fudd's First Law of Opposition
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: fran@Cadence.COM (Fran Peterson)
Subject: Quick/Easy Chicken (was Pie!) 
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:43:23 GMT

>In article <Jul16.195240.47385@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> pruett@CS.ColoState.EDU (J. L. Pruett) writes:
>>
>  Keep those EASY recipes coming, folks! I really appreciate them and I'm sure others do as well!
>
>    Linda

Due to circumstances beyond my control (he came home early, I was running
extremely late) I had to make dinner for my husband
really quick before going to a meeting one night last week and in a pinch
I came up with this:

	Frozen chicken breast (boned & skinned)
	Thawn and cook in Microwave
	Take Low Fat Parmeasan Cheese salad dressing
	Place chicken in baking dish
	Pour salad dressing over chicken (amount your choice) I used 3/4
	  cup for 3 large chicken breast (2 for him 1 for me later)
	Sprinkle with grated parmeasan cheese (paprika optional)
	Pop in micro 1-2 min. til dressing a very little bubbly 

	Serve with vegetable, slice tomatoes, and dinner roll.

He loved it.  When I came home - nothing left but veggies and tomatoes.


Good luck everyone - keep it up (and the weight down).

Fran Peterson

F [:)

"Think Slim - Be Slim"

"I like myself unconditionally"

"I made it thru yesterday; I'm making it thru today; I'll make it thru
tomorrow!"
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Ideas for Sabotage Workshop
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:04:04 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <1992Jul23.002104.16262@grebyn.com> fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:

>
>When you say "the physical hunger is much easier to deal with,"
>you sound like you're trying to say "No" to your physical hunger.
>Why?  If you *are* famished, and the pie is in front of you,
>why not eat a piece or two?  What's happened with me, is that
>by allowing myself to eat when hungry--indeed, insisting that
>I eat when hungry--I've changed my eating habits.  I've almost
>completely shut down the "mental" hunger, by ignoring it,
>distracting it, and most of all, by eating when I'm physically
>hungry. 
>
Well, I really wish I could do that.  If I could, I'm sure
I'd be able to lose weight more easily.  That is one of
the techniques you are taught in behavioral weight control
classes.  I just doesn't work for me.  Will power seems to
be a binary thing with me.  Either I have almost iron will
power or I have none.  If I am in the iron phase, I don't
even have to eat when hungry.  In fact, it is almost enjoyable
to be able to assert power over one's physical needs in
such a way.  When I am in the "none" phase, the opportunity
to eat some delicious food can not be averted if it presents
itself.  I think it is a physiological thing, since the
desire to eat when not hungry can be quite effectively aborted
using sympathomimetic amines, such as mazindol.  Physical
hunger has never been much of a problem for me in my dieting.
I usually don't go on diets with less than 1500 cal/day
(which results in a 2.5 lb/wk loss for me) and I don't
get physically hungry with 1500 cal/day.  

>It's like the whole difference between your approach, Gordon,
>and my approach, boils down to the simple words "no" and "yes."
>You're trying to say "no" to all the "bad" foods, and I'm trying
>to say "yes" to all the "good" foods.

Does "good" mean tastes good or good for you?  When dieting, I
say yes to good for you type foods.  I just don't really like
them all that much and do like a lot the "bad" foods such as
sweets.  I've tried your approach, and it just doesn't work for
me.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: news@fornax.ECE.CMU.EDU (USENET News System)
Newsgroups: alt.support
Subject: I need some advice...
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:21:24 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University.

Hello All:
    Well here goes. I met a women a few weeks ago in one of my ACOA meetings. We have been out on a few dates, four, to be exact and we had an enjoyable time on all of them. The major problem that I'm having is this: I would like to tell her how I feel about her but I'm not sure if I should at this point.
   This is compounded by the fact that both of us just got out of long term relationships, 3 months ago for me and about the same for her. We are both ACOA's and are both in recovery, she longer than I. She is also a recovering alcoholic, sober for 4 years now. There is also the fact that I met her at one of my meetings and it was/is not my intention to use meetings as a sort of dating pool. 
    The above aside, she is really fun to be with, intelligent, attractive and has goals. She is a grad student here on campus in a program that will take up a lot of her time once classes start in September.
    I'm not sure whether a relationship between us would grow into anything, but, such is life. 
    She is leaving for a couple of weeks to visit her parents and we are getting together tomorrow or the next day for dinner and or a movie.
   My question is this: Do I say something now or wait until she get's back? Or should I run like hell becasue of the meeting thing? The grind is there are many things I like about her and I hate to blow a chance.
	Thanks
	   g
Newsgroups: alt.support
From: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Subject: Re: I need some advice...
Reply-To: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov
Organization: Unisys/EPA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:28:07 GMT

You might try saying that you would like to talk with her about your relationship with her.
And ask "Would you be open to talking about it with me?"
Then you can tell her that you really like her and would like to continue
developing your relationship with her.  And you might tell her that you feel concerned
about going too fast -- that you want to not rush things -- and that you want to develop
the relationship without pressuring her or you into anything -- that you want to take 
a comfortable amount of time to check things out as you explore with each other.

And then you might ask her to tell you what she hears you saying -- asking her to 
reflect back.   If she didn't quite get some of it, ask for time to restate the part that she
didn't get.  Then when she has heard you straight, then ask her if she would like to tell
you about how she feels/concerns she has -- then when she has shared, reflect what
you heard back to her.  Then ask her if she feels that you heard what she meant.

This exercise is very simple -- it works in all kinds of relationships -- business, personal,
etc....  It is a great way to build trust and closeness without anybody getting overwhelmed.

You might check out a copy of _Keeping The Love You Find_ by Harville Hendrix and see what
kinds of suggestions he has for you.

Best wishes,

      Bob
Newsgroups: alt.support
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: Climbin' the walls and Chewin' on the Wallpaper
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:27:03 GMT

In article <9207241823.AA25306@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> shiva%morpheus%Servers@MAGNOLIA.BANYAN.COM writes:
>heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) says:
>>Someone please, just tell me it'll get quiet again soon.
>
>I don't know if I can tell you that.  I know it will get quiet again; but
>constantly in my head, and believe me, it's hard to make myself remember
>that hearing them means I am starting to listen to myself, that I am, in
>fact, healing.  But I try to remember one thing:  The voices cannot kill me.
>The silence can.

For some people, the voices are _not_ good things.  They can be very
effective at tearing down your self-esteem.  It all depends on if the
voices are supportive or critical.

You can't make the voices go away, but you _can_ change what they
say.  Unfortunately, to fully explain this requires a discussion of
self-hypnosis and allied techniques,... and it's late.  Besides, I
don't remember the details of how I changed my own voices. :-0


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
From: PORTIGAL_STEVE@tandem.com
Newsgroups: alt.support
Subject: Getting over it...
Date: 21 Jul 1992 22:01:33 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Wow.  I am very moved by your story (would've sent email but youu
can't receive it).  I realize that nothing I can say will take your pain
away, so let me just say this:

if you are motivated to "recover" as you clearly are, then it will likley
happen step by step.  You've already described progress you've made.  You
aren't done.  Stop expecting yourself to be at a certain stage.  It is
a natural process of your mind, just like the way your body heals a cut or
a broken bone.  The process IS what it IS.  It proceeds at its own pace.
Don't force it.  Don't decide "I should be doing this." If you aren't,
you probably shouldn't be.

I've probably said more than I need to.

Hang in there.

Steve Portigal
From: shiva%morpheus%Servers@MAGNOLIA.BANYAN.COM
Newsgroups: alt.support
Subject: Re: Climbin' the walls and Chewin' on the Wallpaper
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:23:40 GMT
X-Unparsable-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 69 19:00:00 EST

heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) says:
>Someone please, just tell me it'll get quiet again soon.

I don't know if I can tell you that.  I know it will get quiet again; but
how soon really depends, I think, on you.

I know the voices you are talking about; I have a gaggle of my own nattering
constantly in my head, and believe me, it's hard to make myself remember
that hearing them means I am starting to listen to myself, that I am, in
fact, healing.  But I try to remember one thing:  The voices cannot kill me.
The silence can.

Good luck and hang in - and keep taking care of yourself.

-shiva
From: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Subject: Re: Parents of Adults Divorcing
Organization: Here & Now
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:26:50 GMT

Shiva,

Do you feel angry when your mother does this crap to you?  She's asking
for your response -- and then unwilling to accept and honor your truth.

When people do this to me, what I try to do is: 

1.  Tell them that when they ask for my feelings and then say "You should
    be grateful...."  that I get angry.  and say:  When you ask me for my
    feelings/thoughts do you really want to hear them without judgement?  

2.  The next time they ask me for more feedback I will try to remember and
    I will ask them if they are willing to hear it and just listen without
    trying to fix my feelings.  If they say no, then I don't give it.  If
    they say yes, then I try a little bit and see if they honor their 
    commitment to just listen.

--

Bob Boyd
In The Here & Now
Newsgroups: alt.support
From: spice@nyx.cs.du.edu (spice)
Subject: so this is love (?)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 22:47:52 GMT




call me spice.  i'm 22 years old, and i've met the 
woman i want to marry.
i really do love her.  unfortunately, it's kind of
a long distance relationship, at least at the
moment..
the `problem' is this:  things between another
woman and myself at work are getting pretty heated.
i can't say with any certainty that things won't
go all the way.
i'm incredibly in lust with this woman, you see.

my question is this:  although it's obviously not
advisable, is it possible to be in love with two
different people at the same time?  because i
feel a really strong attraction to both.
i guess for me, part of the thrill lies in the
chase.  either way, i'm probably screwed in the
long run, no pun intended.  i used to be 
envious of guys who had two women.  no more.

advice, comments, shoulders to cry on are all
appreciated.

spice


(
Newsgroups: alt.support
From: nancyr@aviatrix.EBay.Sun.COM (Nancy Ramirez)
Newsgroups: alt.support
Subject: Is NLP Dangerous?
Date: 31 Jul 1992 20:08:00 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: nancyr@aviatrix.EBay.Sun.COM (Nancy Ramirez)
NNTP-Posting-Host: aviatrix.ebay.sun.com



Just caught a glimpse of the recent thread on NLP.
I had a negative experience, I'd like to share.

I'd read an extensive article in the Sunday paper
about a con-artist who took women for all they had.
He'd learned NLP and was expert at manipulating
people.

Since I didn't want to fall victim to a manipulator
like that, I enrolled in an adult education course
teaching NLP.  

The instructor had horrid ego problems.  He'd been
very overweight all his life, had a stomach operation,
and no one would know he once had a huge body.

The scars from his younger years (cruel peers, etc.)
just stuck with this guy, and he obviously wanted a
way to get even with the 'world'.  He was also into
hypnosis and very impressed by great hypnotists.

The class had about 45 people in the beginning.  At
the end it was 6-7.  I stayed only because I wanted
to learn everything this guy did.

It`s hard to describe.  But, the big thing was eye
contact.  Once he had that, you were his victim.
Again and again, he'd victimize people in the 
audience, by locking them in with that eye contact
and then basically mocking them by copying their
body posture.  It was humiliating.

He never got me once, not even when he phoned me
at home (yes it can work on the phone, too).  In
class I never allowed eye contact with him.  Not
until the last class, that is.

I got there late, and had to sit facing him.  While
speaking, he suddenly sat down directly across from
me which caused me to look at him.  He immediately
went into a body posture exactly matching mine.  
And he held it, while my brain was freaking out 
trying to figure out what was going on. 

If I'd been able to break the eye contact, it would
not have worked.  But, it happened so fast that he
had me confused.  As my face turned a painful red
in horrible embarrassment, he stood up, smiled,
and nodded at me saying, "Yes."  It was akin to
rape.  I'd been violated.

Maybe you can imagine my rage when I left that
class, maybe not.  But, I know enough now to
recognize it when I see it. 

This was NLP being used in a damaging context.
I might also add, that Richard Bandler, the father
of this stuff, ended up arrested in Santa Cruz
some years back after the murder of a prostitute
in his apartment.  Drugs were involved.

I do believe NLP can be used in positive ways, 
like neutral mediators trying to settle cases
out of court.  But, it doesn't hurt to be familiar
with both sides of the coin.

Nancy
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Re: Look at how I used to look when I was fat...
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:11:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>
>It's just been my own experience of being the lone fat man trapped
>in a weight-loss support group with fat women (any number of times)
>that the possibility that people might simply like to eat too much
>was never ever explored.  Pathology was assumed.  We all needed to
>find the Reason we ate so much.

Steve makes a good point.  I know I love to eat.  On the other hand, 
consider the stress and strain of fighting one's weight over
a period of years because one is neither unable to reduce one's eating 
nor able to accept being overweight.

In other words, I suspect that there has to be a missing piece, whether
it is physiology or psychology, that prevents many people from losing
weight they say they want to lose (and in fact, try very hard to lose). 

The NLP folks simply say that we prefer pleasure (eating good food) over
pain (deprivation) even though the short term "pain" leads to a long
term pleasure (lower weight).

And you also have the "insulin-resistance" camp (Atkins, Heller, etc) who
claim that many overweight crave carbohydrates because of a blood
chemistry disorder.

Anyways, "love to eat" is definitely a piece of it.  But if that was the
only part, I don't think people would struggle so much with their weight. 

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
From: avery@netcom.com (Avery Ray Colter)
Subject: How dead-fasting feels....
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 05:15:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

I think I just got a taste of what intensive dieting wreaks on the body
and soul.

Yesterday I woke up late for work and rushed off, terribly underslept.
So buzy was the day that I had no time for lunch, and so tired was I at
the end of it all that I just went home and crashed out.

It's a good thing I had today off. When I awoke and went out to take care
of some personal business, I felt very lethargic, dizzy, and was even starting
to have tremors. My thinking and speech were incoherent. Though decidely
nonmuscular, I don't usually feel weak per se. Well, that's EXACTLY how I felt,
until I went to Wendy's and binged so hard it would some of y'all stop and
stare!

And that's just one day! I've heard stories of some of "you people" (to cop
a phrase from Ex Runner Perot) doing this for days and weeks on end!

Yuck! I wouldn't wish that kind of feeling on anyone!


-- 
Avery Ray Colter ("Elfcat") - 	avery@netcom.netcom.com (IP 192.100.81.100)
(510) 656-1902          	"A R Colter" on America Online
"Heaviness is the root of lightness; calmness is the controller of haste"
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Re: Advantages of being fat
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:24:05 GMT
	<1992Jul22.115803.12173@public.sub.org>
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA


stcroix@z.eecs.umich.edu (William C. St.Croix) writes:

> Why is it that *MOST* health care professionals assume that people 
> who are "Overweight" have high blood pressure, high cholesterol
> rapid pulse, etc.  I have just come from a blood drive at a local 
> company.  The nurse that took my blood pressure was astonished that 
> my BP was 130/80 and my pulse was 86.  She said "Oh...but, someone of 
> your size should have a much higher BP.  

My wife writes:

You think *you* have fun -- my normal BP is 110/70 (maybe) with a resting
pulse of ~65. When under stress, my BP goes DOWN like a rock! I can *still*
get dizzy and fall down if I get up too fast -- I did, one day at work -- you
should've seen the panic on the nurse's face when she took my BP and it was
85/40! -- Yeah, I was still walking and talking, but I was kinda-lightheaded.
:-) She wouldn't let me leave her office 'til after she'd talked to my
friendly MD and poured some salt and liquid down me (I was about 220# at 5'$'
at the time!).

Karen
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
   "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
From: avery@netcom.com (Avery Ray Colter)
Subject: Re: personals
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 02:34:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

ernesto@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Teodoro Ernesto Gelabert) writes:

>personal on the alt.personals (or whatever  it is called) when looking
>for the special body type that i am (sorry if that sounds
>objectifying but i am and have always been a chaser).

Boy I hear that!

Seems like in certain groups there's always someone out to jack.

I really don't know if personals would be real appropriate for this group,
since all the "hunter-seeker" energy does tend to overpower more subtle
issues that should be dealt with.

Myself, I've been trying to keep my own carnivory within the bounds of
the bounds of the abstract in my postings here.

-- 
Avery Ray Colter ("Elfcat") - 	avery@netcom.netcom.com (IP 192.100.81.100)
(510) 656-1902          	"A R Colter" on America Online
"Heaviness is the root of lightness; calmness is the controller of haste"
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
From: avery@netcom.com (Avery Ray Colter)
Subject: Re: Advantages of being fat
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 00:19:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

peterk@public.sub.org (Peter Kittel) writes:

>Well, but experience/statistics is on her side. I also was never slim
>in my life. And when I was 18, I also was tested for blood pressure
>and was diagnosed normal. But today, at 41, I have higher pressure
>and some cholesterol (not yet alarming, but definitely above average).
>So you perhaps have to wait just a little... :-(

And that's all fat people are encouraged to do, evidently, if they don't lose 
weight: just wait around for disaster to strike.

This is to me the most maddening attitude in the old guard's repertoire,
that if a fat person doesn't get thin, they might as well stick their
heads in the sand and let the prophecy come true with nary an effort of
resistance.

-- 
Avery Ray Colter ("Elfcat") - 	avery@netcom.netcom.com (IP 192.100.81.100)
(510) 656-1902          	"A R Colter" on America Online
"Heaviness is the root of lightness; calmness is the controller of haste"
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
From: avery@netcom.com (Avery Ray Colter)
Subject: Re: personals
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 02:37:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>On the other hand, it's probably easier to change your belt size
>than your sexual preference! :-) :-)

Thank you for acknowleging that at least. ;)

-- 
Avery Ray Colter ("Elfcat") - 	avery@netcom.netcom.com (IP 192.100.81.100)
(510) 656-1902          	"A R Colter" on America Online
"Heaviness is the root of lightness; calmness is the controller of haste"
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks