HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Hitler as Occultist (was: Re: Numbers)
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:12:17 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <1992Aug14.061708.23345@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
>ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson) writes:
>
>>  Please set me straight.
>
>All right.  This whole thing got started when someone described a pagan
>event at which a comparison between witch burning and the holocaust was
>used to manipulate people's emotions, get them to hate the appropriate 
>folks and so on.  The original poster felt used by the practice.
>I cited Hitler and Stalin to show that the Catholic Church is not the
>biggest threat around.  Janis tried to lump Hitler in with the Catholics, and
>the rest is history.  

Fucking exCUSE me?  I did nothing of the sort.  I responded to SOMEONE
ELSE with a nothing more than a DIRECT QUOTE that Hitler did once try to
merge christian ideals and Nazism.  In a later post I stated that trying
to find out what a man forty years' dead was when we can't even decide
among ourselves was pointless; I stated that Hitler was only a complete
nut and that nothing else could be concluded.

Please get your goddamned story straight before you try to pin an entire
thread on me.  I've started threads before; this was not one of them.

Thank you,
Janis
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: house consecrations, in a fashion
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 17 Aug 92 02:08:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.011615.6342@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com writes:
>> i FINALLY finished the dollhouse...  anyway, it's going to have a little
>> home altar in it, and it needs consecrating.
>
>Hi Ailsa!
>
>I don't really have any suggestions.  

I do -- of course.  When have you people known me NOT to butt in with a
suggestion?

Howzabout you wear the inner child on the outside for a little while,
and consecrate it that way.  How would your inner child consecrate
something?  What would she say?  What was important to you when you got
a dollhouse when you were little?  Since you have a miniperson with you,
ask her opinion.  Better yet, WATCH Katy and see what she does with the
toys and things she finds most wonderful.  Maybe she can even take part
in it.

Blessings,
Janis
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: I have returned...
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:35:38 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <199208190638.AA03111@intercon.com>,
amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker) writes:

> I'm back.  At least, if you can read this, I'm back :)...
> 
> 
> Amanda Walker
> amanda@intercon.com

Catch up on the net.goddess stuff and post as to whether or not you
would care to maker it a tetrad instead of a trinity: shannon, ailsa,
me, and you!  (BTW, we each have a chocolate associated with us; I have
dark.)

Blessings,
Janis the BG#W1O2DOWNAW (you'll run into the anagram)
From: alizard@drc.uucp (A.Lizard)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Pagan fiction
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 14:51:24 PDT
Organization: Sound Blaster Systems, Concord CA

I've seen some excellent juveniles from Andre Norton, but I can't
remember titles just yet.
As for Friday having a pagan oriented section, wrong Heinlein novel.

The book you were thinking of was To Sail Beyond the Sunrise, where
Lazarus Long's mother admits to being a member of the Craft. (given
her social and political attitudes as described elsewhere... a trifle
surprising...)

Good post, Ian. I regard Heinlein's descent into the right wing in his
later books as unfortunate...
Bright Blessings
A.Lizard
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: More pissing around with surveys
Keywords: Follow me and be free!
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 15:01:34 GMT

In response to that damned post, Paul Harvey writes;

>>If you were to die today and God asked you, "Why should I let 
>>you into my heaven?" What would you say?

>I am that I am.

  Paul, a little Gnostic are we ?

  Reminds me of sitting on an overcrop looking down into the
basin of water behind an automated hydro-electric dam and
realizing, with the auroraborealis overhead and the lights of
the robots below, that the bush is always burning, and that
everything is the burning bush.

  Walkin' on holy ground every time I put my foot down.

  Blessed be, Ciaran.

  $uslinit; include oblig.sig <<
  "...And here, Queen Aphrodite, pour heavenly nectar into gold
   cups, and fill them gracefully with sudden joy."  -- Sappho >>
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:41:20 GMT

In article <0q9qPB3w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us> donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal) writes:
>ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>[entire post deleted... :) ]
>> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>      ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com                   ________
>>       No visible means of support          Silence \      / Action
>>       and you have not seen nothing yet.      =     \    /    =
>>       Everything's come together.           Death    \  /    Life
>>                                                       \/
>
>seeing your sig just reminded me of a sticker I saw at the Pro-Choice 
>rally this last Saturday at the Dome... The woman had it on her purse, 
>and told me she got it from Greenpeace at the CS&N concert the night 
>before... it said:
>       "Silence is the voice of complicity"
>       

While we're discussing neat junk seen at pro-choice rallies . . . a
friend of mine Sally went to a clinic defense and saw one woman wearing
a really neat t-shirt that reminded me of a Bertrand Russell logic
puzzle.  It said "No one knows I'm a lesbian."

Is that cool or what?  I had just read a little of Godel/Escher/Bach
thet night before, so my brain was primed for stuff like this.

Blessings,
Janis

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Hitler and Christianity
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 11:51:15 GMT

I agree with the pointlessness of trying to classify Hitler as christian
or pagan. (Didn't someone state that one of the laws of USENET was that
all arguments would eventually involve Hitler ;)

I think that a case can be made linking some of the excesses of the Nazis
to some of the excesses of the christian church.  This is not just a matter
of neo-pagans going after christians.  To illustrate I would recommend
the works of two christian writers:

"Beyond Mere Obedience" by Dorothee Solle

"Faith and Fratricide" by Rosemary Radford Reuther

If memory serves me, the first is about blind obedience to authority
and the second is about anti-semitism.  Both offer examples which
show a continuity between the positions of the christian church and
those of Nazi leaders. (Both are concerned with the persistence of
these trends in present day christianity -- and how to develop
a christian theology that does not rely on them.)

In particular christian anti-semitism does not seem to be just a
medieval thing -- when one includes the persecution in Eastern Europe
and Russia there is an essentially continuous history of active,
agressive discrimitation against Jews from the middle ages to
the Holocaust.  Much of this was carried out by secular insitutions,
but the roots in christian theology and practice are far too deep
to ignore.

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the netherlands...a late commentary
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 02:58:51 EST
Organization: Ailanthus Project

std_beaulieu@hg.uleth.ca writes:

>   The bulk of the Netherlands was once North Sea, and exists by
>        virtue of the dykes which guard it.

yay!  dyke power!  i have this mental picture of bronze-clad amazons bearing
labryses standing at the broders looking fierce...  B)

                                       -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com                   ________
      No visible means of support          Silence \      / Action
      and you have not seen nothing yet.      =     \    /    =
      Everything's come together.           Death    \  /    Life
                                                      \/
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: eivind@idt.unit.no (Eivind Throndsen)
Subject:  Places of Worship & Bookshops in Ireland??
Originator: eivind@mime
Organization: Div. of CS & Telematics, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 10:09:11 GMT

I am posting this for a friend without net access. He studies the history
of religions, and is going to do a master thesis on "Witchcraft &
Ecology". He will be travelling in Ireland from Sep 8-18.

Does anybody out there have hints on 

    a) Pagan/new age book shops, especially in Dublin.
    b) Places of worship, both old & new.
    c) Pagan newsletters 

that he could look up during his stay?

Please e-mail replies to me, and I'll forward to him. If I get any replies
and there is interest in it, I'll post a summary later.
 
Greetings & thanks
Eivind Throndsen
-- 
Eivind Throndsen (eivind@idt.unit.no)
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Amber...Jet.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 02:22:39 EST
Organization: Ailanthus Project

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

> In article <RsqiPB2w164w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T
> >cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> >
> >> In article <DPmePB8w164w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa
> >> >
> >> >i want to marry janis...  B)
> >> >
> >>
> >> ailsa, you are so fucking sweet.
> >>
> >> Blessings and a big hug,
> >> Janis
> >
> >oooooo!  does that mean you accept?  B)
> >
> >                           -ailsa
> >
>
> Dunno if the Magnificent Mikey'll go for it . . .
>
> And you're still sweet!
>

well, *I* am committedly non-monogamous, so i don't mind if you keep him around
as well...  B)

                                   -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com                   ________
        I don't need a hero                Silence \      / Action
        I don't need a soldier                =     \    /    =
        I did when i was younger            Death    \  /    Life
        But now i'm so much older.                    \/
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 22 Aug 92 05:15:44 GMT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

pierson@kukri.mps.mlo.dec.com (dan pierson) writes:

> Seconded, an all time great, not all that pagan though.  On the other
> hand, I bought "Moonwise" (my first pagan book recommendation) because
> of hearing the author speak in a panel on Gormenghast...
>

i bought _moonwise_ a few years ago, but i've never been able to finish it.
heck, i've never been able to START it - never got past page three.  no idea
why, it just didn't grab me.  _heroing_ by somebody with a welsh name, si
another book that i haven't finished, but that one DID grab me in the beginning
(stupid cover though - the books states quite clearly that the hera of the
novel is built like a bear, but they draw her willowy and cute on the cover).
no idea at ALL why i never finished it.  guess i'll have to do so.  it's one of
the few sawords and sorcery books i know of with feminist sensibilities...
(other than the trashy ones out of the various lesbian publishing houses).

                                          -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com                   ________
      No visible means of support          Silence \      / Action
      and you have not seen nothing yet.      =     \    /    =
      Everything's come together.           Death    \  /    Life
                                                      \/
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Pagan music (was Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction) 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 18 Aug 92 00:41:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.165908.9244@burrhus.harvard.edu> canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson) writes:
>In article <1992Aug15.200804.22678@lmt.mn.org> ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson) writes:
>>  Let's add another thread too -- Pagan Music !!!
>>
>>  [examples deleted]
>>
>	Uh oh - I think I remember having see this thread before!  :)  This
>time I think a defination of what you want to call pagan music might be
>helpful.  Until such a time as there is one, I'll feel free to utilise my
>fairly broad defination of pagan :)
>
>	Morris On - A. Hutchings, R. Thompson et al. do folk-rock versions
>		of _real_ pagan (well, OK, pagan-derived) music: morris
>		dances!
>
>	The Tain - Horslips - Irish folk-rock outfit from the '70s musical
>		version of the Irish literary masterpiece.  They're
>		whacked, but it's kinda neat.
>
>	Current 93 - Sveinbj|rn Beinteinsson: Edda - released under the
>		name of some weirdoid group from the UK, this is simply
>		a recording of Sveinbj|rn (Asatru leader in Iceland)
>		by himself chanting bits of the Edda kvaedi as well as some
>		of his own rimur.  I think he does all of V|luspa, as well
>		as bits of Havamal and Sigdrifumal.  
>
>	Hawkwind - various albums - stretching pagan a bit but they get
>		weird Atlantean and early '70s New Age-like stuff going on
>		some of their old albums like Space Ritual and things of
>		that ilk.  Space Ritual's liner notes are really wild new
>		age stuff.
>	
>	Jethro Tull - surely everyone knows about "Cup of Wonder",
>		"Beltane" and "Jack-in-the-Green" by now?
>
>	I tend to think of pagan religion as inseperable from folk
>tradition, so I lump a great deal of folk music into the "pagan" cateogry.
>It would be foolish to spit out and exhaustive list here.  I will mention
>bands like Fairport [happy 25th to them], Steeleye, the Albion Band as well
>as newer bands such as the Oyster Band, Phoenix, and Tempest.

Okay, let's get a little balmy, too.  Some of us like the feel of sun
on our skin and Medi sand between our toes!

How about Suzanne Vega's "Calypso" off of "Solitude Standing"?  The
first time I heard this, I was off on Ogygia in a seasside cave with
night fires flickering over the walls and and the surf in my ears ALL
NIGHT LONG.  I still get that way when I listen to it.  It's probably
one of the most lyrical and evocative pieces of music I've ever heard.
Hell, I like to just read the WORDS by themselves!

Blessings,
Janis
From: M14731@mwvm.mitre.org
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: jet
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:45:00 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102

In article <Bsunyp.DrI@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
 
>
>fannin@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (elizabeth a fannin) writes:
>
>>  Stuff about jet.
>
> More stuff about jet.
>
 
Well, you guys have finally found the topic to draw out another
"lurker."  My husband's a master goldsmith who designs using both
precious and semiprecious stones.  Reaching over to my copy of
_Gemstones_of_the_World_ by Walter Schumann (the *one* book by
which my husband swears):
 
"Jet is an organic product, a bituminous coal which can be polished.
Has a velvety waxy luster, sometimes with pyrite inclusions and, when
rubbed, becomes electrically charged.  Much was found in England
(Whitby, Yorks), but today it comes from Spain (Asturias), France
(Dep. Aude) and the U.S. (Utah, Colorado).  It is worked on a lathe.
Used for mourning jewelry, rosaries, ornamental objects, and cameos.
Imitated by other types of coal (anthracite, cannel coal), glass,
vulcanized rubber and onyx."
 
The info box gives a Mohs' hardness of 2 1/2 - 4 (that's the scratch
hardness), which at those numbers ranges from scratches with a finger-
nail (2) to scratches with a copper coin (3) to scratches easily with a
knife (4).  Transparency is listed as opaque.  Refractive index is
1.64-1.68 and no double refaction.  Specific gravity is 1.30-1.35.
The photographs of faceted pieces hardly reflect light.
 
Refraction would be your best, nondamaging test, however I doubt many
people have a refractometer at home like I do.  You could expect
Nature Company to be selling the real article, but you'll be paying
too much.  The best source would be to find a lapidary store--the kind
of dusty place where they sell chunks of minerals and fossils to
collectors.  You will likely find some knowledgeable people who are
*very* happy to have someone come in and ask questions.  These stores
often carry beading and some low-end jewelry supplies.  Ask someone
to show you pieces of jet, cannel coal, and onyx--and then buy when
you find someone who gives you straight answers (or refers to a
reference book) without telling you how "rare" it is or how they're
stock is special because it comes from some special source that no
one else in town has access to.
 
If you're interested in gemstones, _Gemstones_of_the_World_ by Walter
Schumann, Sterling Publishing Co. Inc, New York, ISBN 7198 0051 X is
a must.  For approximately $22 you get a 250+ page book in which every
other page is a color plate of the gems and stones being discussed in
both natural and cut, faceted, polished states.  I think it would be
an excellent complement to books on the magic and sacred uses of
gemstones.  AND will make for more knowledgeable buyers.
 
May your travels be shared in good company.
Elizabeth
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:32:59 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

I'll recommend _Wizard of the Pigeons_ by Megan Lindholm.  It's about a
magical street person in Seattle, and has a lot to say about the ethics
and the passions of the magical life.  A lovely book.

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 17 Aug 92 02:05:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.011853.29816@news.acns.nwu.edu> Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:
>Here are some authors whose works are seen as being for children, but
>I would recommend to everyone:
>
>Susan Cooper - esp. "The Dark is Rising" series
>
>Lloyd Alexander - esp. the Prydain series, i.e. The Black Cauldron
>(I think this is a reworking of stuff from the Welsh Mabinogian)
>
>Diana Wynne Jones - esp. Charmed Life
>

Well, hell, as long as someone mentioned it --

How about the Maginogion itself?  I thought it was rather good.

Blessings,
Janis


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: Chocolate (was Re: "gangway, folx")
Keywords: Dark Chocolate, Dark Chocolate, More Dark Chocolate
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 20:44:23 GMT

>> THE NEXT STEP IS A SACRIFICE TO THE BITCH GODDESS HERSELF:
>
>I hate to say, but I've already ceded my worship to Ciaran, who
>I've already eulogized and cry to the moon every night over. Now
>being somewhat of a polytheist (which means I use rubber bands
>rather than tape) I might have room in the lineup for an extra
>goddess, especially if she smells good. :-)
>
>Murray

  Umh ... ah, Murray, uhm ... ah ... well, ...

  Oh, what the hell.  Ok, Murray, here's how it works !!!

  Listen then to the words of the Not-Even-Remotely-Bitch-Goddess
Ciaran, who has been called many things, but never worshipped,
and who probably doesn't know what to do with a worshipper if one
dropped from the sky and dented my hood;

  "Drink ye not of the lesser corn-surgar-based beers of the land,
unless you're low on cash, or you've got some friends over who
can't tell the difference, or you're too blotto to tell the
difference, but Brew Instead from the Finest Hops and Malts
great brews of many varieties and Consume of These as you will,
without violating any local or state ordanances or personal
convictions about drinking, should ye have any ...

  "And playeth with thine train set regularly in such ways
as giveth thee a jolly, for jollies are greatly pleasing unto
this particular Not-Even-Remotely-Bitch-Goddess ...

  "And change your underwear -- what would the doctor think if
you were hit by a car in those !!!

  "Drinketh thee frequently of the Bean which gives us the 
Pause that Refreshes, and Perks us Up, for Coffee is greatly
pleasing and has been wrongly persecuted for far too many years.

  << gee, I'm starting to like this ... >>

  "And, uhm, well, Ok !!  That's a good start."

  Oooh, that felt pretty good.  Maybe this Goddess stuff is okay
after all ...

  Next time, maybe I'll try being a God !!!

  As for room for more in the lineup, hell -- stackem' deep !!!
No one should ever think they have "too many" God/desses.

  Blessed ... (where'd I leave my omnipresent narrator voice?  Oh,
there it is behind the sofa) ... _B_L_E_S_S_E_D___B_E_,  Ciaran.
From: system@korova.uucp (razorback)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: BVMs
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:36:18 GMT
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783

popec@fennec.sccsi.com (William C. Barwell) writes:

> Here we have Jesus-in-the-screen-door sightings.  In heavily Catholic
> countries we have Blessed Virgin Mary sightings.  In Southeast Asia they 
> see Buddha.  You see what your social milieu primes you to see.
> 
> The sage points at the moon, and the fool looks at his finger.
>            Ancient Chinese Proverb

i personally see elvis.

:> (there ya have it, folks.

squid

--
              VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783
        "where you can find the Zeta Greys SAFEWAYING themselves
                into the WONDERBREAD *heart* of America!"