HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bih@bagheera.East.Sun.COM (Bennet Ih - Sun BOS Hardware - Sunergy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Rookie pay scale
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:08:37 GMT
Reply-To: bih@bagheera.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc. - BDC
NNTP-Posting-Host: bagheera.east.sun.com

There's been a lot of grumbling lately about how high the salaries for 
lottery picks have gotten relative to established stars. I have
also heard occasional rumors that the NBA is considering a rookie pay
scale that would put a cap on first year salaries. Has anyone heard
anything about this?

How's this for a proposal: Since the first draft choice is usually evolves 
into an all-star after a couple years (recent picks: Larry Johnson, Derrick 
Coleman, David Robinson, Brad Daugherty; who did I forget here?), why 
not cap the salary for a rookie at the average salary of the previous year's 
All-star team? I don't really know how much money this really is (any 
of you stat-masters out there have any info?) but I'm sure it's a 
respectable number and probably MUCH higher than the typical 
Major League Baseball starting salary (< $200,000 I think). I'm guessing 
that this number is at least $1.7 million.

Thus a #1 pick like Robinson or O'Neil confident of their success would
then opt for a short contract (maybe 2 years) and then go for the big
bucks once they've proven themselves. Otherwise you could opt for
a longer term guaranteed contract. Sounds fair to me. Any opinions?
Also if anyone has info on All-star salaries or salaries of recent lottery
picks, could you please post them? I'm kind of curious to see how
much money these guys really make.

-Bennet
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Subject: Memories of Magic, Larry, and Mike
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:11:47 GMT


	Interesting to note some of the memories people have of these
	3 future HOFs.  Here's my contribution:

	Jordan:
	1)  The switch hands move against the Lakers in the 1991 Finals.
	2)  The shot over Ehlo in Game 5 of the playoffs.
	3)  One move where he's playing against the Atlanta Hawks.  He's
	    palming the ball, and thrusts it out to the defender (who
	    happened to be current teammate Cliff Levingston).  In return,
	    Cliff falls on his ass, and then Mike goes in and slams on
	    2 other Hawks.  Simply hilarious.  Talk about toast.
	4)  Numerous dunks on Ewing and the New York Knicks.

	Magic:
	1)  On the floor, Magic thows a perfect bounce pass inbetween
	    the legs of a defender to Rambis for the open slam.
	2)  His fadaway 3-pointer that banks in as the Lakers defeat the
	    Celtics in Boston Garden (regular season).
	3)  Magic's "junior junior" baby sky hook over McHale and Parish
	    as the Lakers defeat the Celtics in Game 4(?) of the NBA
	    Finals.
	4)  Numerous cross court, bounce passes to Worthy for the slam.

	Bird:
	1)  The "steal" -- catches Isiah sleeping and feeds DJ for the
	    go-ahead layup.
	2)  The shootout with Dominique Wilkins.  The key play in this
	    game however, it seemed, was when Ainge stole the ball and
	    was going in for the layup.  Doc Rivers was defending him,
	    and blocked the shot.  However, it was ruled that Rivers
	    touched the backboard, therefore a goal-tending violation.
	    That gave the Celtics some cushion, and led to their win.
	Unfortunately, the last 2 memories are bad.
	3)  Against the Sixers (in the mid 80's), Bird is fouled, and
	    proceeds to miss both 3-pters.  The Sixers come down, and
	    Dr. J sinks a 3-pter for the win.
	4)  Against the Knicks in Game 5 (last season of Jimmy Rodgers
	    tenure), 1st round.  Bird drives in, during a close game,
	    and misses a turnaround dunk.  A few plays later, while the
	    shot clock is running out, Ewing chases a ball into the 
	    corner and sinks a 3-pter.  The Knicks go on to win, by 
	    winning the last 3 games of the series.

	Sorry if I couldn't remember any more great moments by Bird
	(I'm sure there are a TON more) -- it's just that I've not been
	a Celtic fan my entire life, and being so, I tend to remember 
	the bad more than the good.  But along those lines, U tend to
	gain a respect for those players, and in my mind, there's no
	doubt that Larry Bird is one of the all-time greats.  All 3
	have great memories...

	Jazzy J
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: matthew@base.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher)
Subject: Re: Which Team is More Popular:NBA or NHL?!
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: 27 Aug 92 22:06:58 GMT

wgr@rti.rti.org writes:

> Even ESPN, the network that brings us monster truck races and arena 
> football, refuses to show ice hockey.

Careful, Bucky.

According to today's LA Times, ESPN is about to sign a contract to 
broadcast the NHL.  The would put the NHL on ESPN, but not the NBA.

Draw your own conclusions about the presence (or lack of it) on 
"The Total Sports Network".
--

Matthew Merzbacher	ARPA:	matthew@CS.UCLA.EDU
Moo - Moo Moo  		UUCP:	...!{uunet|rutgers|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!matthew
               		This time, *with* the oys
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Subject: Re: Lloyd Danielsd (was Re: Spurs Update)
Keywords: Spurs
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:44:26 GMT

>In article <55883@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
>>
>>The key with Lloyd (Daniels) is conditioning. I've written a lot of negative
>>things about him on the college group, but as a pro player they no
>>longer apply. Every pro stint he's had(CBA, WBL etc.) he's been accused
>>of being out of shape and lazy. You can't play for Tark and be lazy.
>>The skill is obvious when you watch him, he's smooth, passes and 
>>dribbles like a much smaller player. His shot is iffy, as is his defense.
>>
>>I kind of hope he does well so his name doesn't go down in infamy as
>>the guy with the most recruiting hype to never do diddly.
>>
>
    I hope he sucks. In fact, I hope the whole team and their cheating SOB
    of a coach sucks. Everybody talks about what a great coach Tark is, but
    I'm not too impressed with a guy who blatantly cheats to get the best
    players to come to his school. I don't think it's that tough to post a
    great career W-L record when you pay the best players to come to your
    school and you play a creampuff schedule. I'll be happy as hell to see
    Utah stomp all over them this year.

    --salty
From: vreddy@das.harvard.edu (Venkatesh Reddy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Date: 27 Aug 92 14:00:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Aug27.140030.13496
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <1992Aug27.121712.21182@brtph560.bnr.ca>, markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:

|> >Bird has been known to be a great team defensive player, though not a good
|> >one-on-one defender.  You want Jordan's weaknesses???  3pt shooting for one.
|> 
|> Okay, you leave him open at the 3pt arc a couple of times and see how long 
|> that lasts...

`Of course, but if you did the same for Bird, he would mop up the floor with
Jordan, open at the 3-pt. arc. On the other hand, so I don't get flamed AS
MUCH, if you put those two out on the court for a little one-on-one, Jordan
would mop up the floor with Bird.

-- Venk --
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor)
Subject: Re: Compiling List of Jordan Awards
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:30:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep01.184816.36542@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.145800.13706@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep01.125914.7775@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>>>82-83  o NCAA Player of the Year
>>Can this be true? 82-83 was Ralphie's senior year. As far as I remember,
>>Ralphie won all but one Player of the Year polls (including the Wooden
>>Award), while Jordan won only one. 
>Yes, it is true.  While Ralph did win a lot of awards his senior year, 
>and was on the Sporting News All-American 1st team, Jordan won the 
>Sporting News College Player of the Year award.  

The Sporting News College Player of the Year award != NCAA Player of the
Year. The Sporting News is not prestigeous enough to have its award to
be recognized as THE award.

FACT TIME (from the NCAA_basketball's_Finest, published by the NCAA):

(pg 84) 
Michael Jordan: Named player of the year by AP, UPI, the USBWA and the 
                NABC in 1984 ... Wooden Award Winner in 1984 ... Naismith
                Award winner in 1984 ...

(pg 131)
Ralph Sampson: Named player of the year by AP, UPI and the USBWA in
               1981, 1982 and 1983, and by the NABC in 1982 and 1983 ...
               Wooden Award winner in 1982 and 1983 .... Naismith Award
               winner in 1981, 1982 and 1983 ...

So my memory isn't bad. Jordan did win one POTY award in 1983, namely
the Sporting News, which has the nerve to deceive the public by listing
only THE SPORTING NEWS COLLEGE PLAYER OF THE YEAR in its NBA Register,
while ignoring the other more prestigeous awards.

Of course, the NCAA itself doesn't include the TSN awards in its 
publication.

This is equilavent to listing Don McPherson as the TSN COLLEGE FOOTBALL
PLAYER OF THE YEAR in 1987, while ignoring Heisman Trophy winner Tim Brown.
Of course, TSN didn't have the nerve to do that in the Football Register.
The Heisman is too big to be whitewashed.

Well, since MJ has become God, maybe all the awards he has won have
become the official awards, thus the TSN POTY award has become the 
official NCAA POTY award, while the AP/UPI/USBWA/NABC/Wooden/Naismith 
can be ignored.

-- 
                                          Edward Lor
                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com
                                          
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: rogerc@ssd.intel.com (Roger Christal)
Subject: Re: Predictions
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:47:42 GMT

In article <16376@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> fzchen@othello.ucdavis.edu writes:

>  . . . Cliff Robinson
>  is getting better each year and I wouldn't be surprised if 
>  Kersey ends up coming off the bench by the end of the year.
   ^^^^^^

Insert the word "DUCKWORTH" here.



-- 

>>=- Roger Christal
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Redskins Suck!
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:56:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Madison

In article <1992Aug31.195714.13323@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov (Dr. Norman J. LaFave) writes:
>In article <1992Aug30.025952.14048@wam.umd.edu>, huesmann@wam.umd.edu (Joseph Edward Huesmann) writes:
>> 
>> 
>> Alas, 'nuff said... :(
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>
>Well, isn't this a flimsy attempt at producing a flame war.
>
>Redskin fan in Texas hell

Gee, is their a new NBA team (or one in the CBA, Italian League, etc...)
called the "Redskins"?  I doubt it.  In other words, you morons, why don't
you discuss things in the appropriate group?  Geeesh!

[Am I now going to have to add "Redskin" to my basketball kill file, too?]
-- 

Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 01:00:33 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Aug26.181448.29403@das.harvard.edu> vreddy@das.harvard.edu (Venkatesh Reddy) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.152443.5240@brtph560.bnr.ca>, markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>
>	3pts for the best, 2pts for the middle, 1 pt for the weakest...
>
>		Category	Bird	Magic	Jordan
>
>		Passing		2	3	1
>		Scoring		2	1	3
>		Shooting	3	1	2
>		Rebounding	3	1	2
>		Playmaking(T)	2	3	1
>		Playmaking(I)	1	2	3
>		Elevating Team	2	3	1
>		Defense		1	2	3
My only differences would be that Bird's Individual playmaking would be #2 
on my scale, as would his defense.  Reasons being that while Magic was great
at getting the ball to his teammates, as well as driving the lane, he didn't
have the individual weapons that Jordan and Bird did on the offensive end.
Bird could drive, post up, or hit the outside jumper, or dish off to a 
teammate.   On defense, Bird was very good at the little things, defensive
rebounding, blocking out, etc.., as well as being very good at "help", or
team defense.  He was on 3 NBA defensive teams.  
>
>		Total		16	16	16
My totals would then be...      18      14      16

WHich puts Bird at the top.  I list them that way for the most part anyway,
except that in a team environment, Magic's team skills push him above
Jordan.  But hey, that's just MY opinion...
>
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: stuart@apollo.hp.com (Stuart Troutman)
Subject: subject lines!
Originator: stuart@mingus
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:00:46 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA


Is there some reason why so many messages contain subject lines that have
NOTHING to do with the actual content of the messages? How many messages have 
we seen here lately with subject lines of "re: All-North Carolina team", but 
which were actually nothing but endless monologues about the relative merits 
of Jordan, Bird, & Magic? Jeez, folks, if you're gonna fill up the newsgroup
with loads of messages, then show the courtesy of editing the subject lines
to reflect what the messages are really about (so that the rest of us can
delete the drivel that we'd rather ignore).
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: wardrb@cs.utexas.edu (Richard Byron Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Who's gonna win it all? (was Re: Predictions)
Date: 26 Aug 1992 13:30:41 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: dimebox.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Aug26.172948.25925@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
|In article <l9ndehINN35h@dimebox.cs.utexas.edu> wardrb@cs.utexas.edu (Richard Byron Ward) writes:
|>In article <1992Aug26.155210.11728@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
|>|>In article <1992Aug25.192309.7676@cc.umontreal.ca>, iacurtop@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Iacurto Paul) writes:
|>|>|> Milwaukee             Good beer
|>|                          ^^^^^^^^^
|>|   At least we something going for us!
|>|
|>
|>Not!  Name one good beer produced in Milwaukee.
|>
|    How 'bout Miller? Or the much underrated Pabst? 
|
I'm still waiting...

Rick
From: chrisda@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (David Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Blazers sign Johnson
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:14:55 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University

Portland has signed its #1 pick, Dave Johnson (6-7 G/F, Syracuse) to a 3-year
contract.

Portland's roster stands at:

PG- Porter, Strickland
SG- Drexer, Elie, Johnson
SF- Kersey, Robinson, Murray
PF- Williams, Bryant, Smith
C- Duckworth

That's 12.   Portland has a ton of guys who are 6-7 and play guard or SF.  I'm 
surprised they didn't send Johnson to Europe for the year and keep someone
else, either another PG (so Porter could swing to SG) or a free agent center.
I thought the PG would be Robert Pack, who showed some potential last year.
That or (6-6, 250) Marcus Kennedy, since everybody else seems to be collecting
their own Barkeley-esque player this season.  :)

Also, I haven't heard much about Clyde's knee, except that it was still swollen
during the Olympics--not a good sign!  In fact, I keep expecting to hear that
he's had a little athroscopic surgery on it over the summer.  Anyone know the
status of The Glyde and his sore knee?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: mack@isl.Stanford.EDU (mack)
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 04:04:01 GMT

IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Thomas Hyer) writes:

    [...]

>If someone has videotape of this and can check, they'll surely
>become heroes... :)
>
>   [...]
>
>Anyway, does anyone have the videotape and willingness to
>watch it again :) ?

You don't have to type anything twice for Ed to see it.

>Tom Hyer

    --mack

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: clv2m@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Charles Viles)
Subject: Re: Shaquille O'Neal interview
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:31:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.224059.18177@Princeton.EDU>, hariharn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh Hariharan) writes:
> In article <5011@news.duke.edu> radkel@canctr.mc.duke.edu writes:
> >In article <1992Aug31.053957.28254@leland.Stanford.EDU>, terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong) writes:
> >
> >
> > ...
> > He has absolutely no right to whine about this!  If Shaq had made himself
> >available for the world championships, Pan Am games, etc, when USA Basketball
> >really needed him, then maybe he would have a case.  Laettner had put in his
> >time, and deserved the slot.  Jimmy Jackson would have been another worthy
> >choice.
> >
> >--Rob Clough
> 
> Cut this crap please !! Being chosen for the Olympics is a prestigious
> issue and the BEST player should be given a chance (things such as availability
> for other tourneys should not count).. And most certainly Shaq is a few
> levels better than Laettner as a player.

I beg to differ. Laettner was chosen because he was the college player that
best fit the needs of the team, i.e. a big (6' 11") player with an outside touch who
could play two positions, center and PF. With Ewing and Robinson, the DT hardly 
needed another dominant inside player. By most accounts, Shaq is a raw talent who
will only get better and better, but let's face it, the guy can't shoot the
trey like Laettner.
> I would guess that the guys in the selection committee are racists who
> wanted to project a "nice image of the US" given that there are already
> "too may bad guys" such as Charles Barkeley and Karl Malone. 
> 
Wrong again bud. This is another instance of looking for racial overtones where
there really were none. Laettner was(is?) probably the most hated college player
in recent memory. Who can forget the chest-stomping incident in the 92 tournament?
If the selection committee was looking for a nice American guy, Shaq certainly
would have been a better pick. No racism there. If the selection committee were
that worried about image, they would have left Sir Charles off the team. But
they didn't, choosing instead to field the best team possible.
> 
> Just my opinion ... 

Just MY opinion.
> 
> 
> Harry 

Charlie
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: rogerc@ssd.intel.com (Roger Christal)
Subject: Re: Bird, Jordan, Magic...
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:17:12 GMT

In article <8c1703qY6am.00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> ronnie@uts.amdahl.com (Ronnie Townsend) writes:
>
>. . . Bird got acclaim because he was good *and* because he is white.
>Anyone who lives in America and denies this has his head ...well
>buried somewhere.. 

. . . And, people who INSIST on continually reminding us of that fact
obviously want us to keep the distinction clear in our minds.  What
are you trying to do, promote racism?


-- 

>>=- Roger Christal
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: west@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Brian West)
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Summary: Bird was a bad defender
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:59:10 GMT

> On defense, Bird was very good at the little things, defensive
>rebounding, blocking out, etc.., as well as being very good at "help", or
>team defense.  He was on 3 NBA defensive teams.  

As far as the big things on defensive like blocking/changing shots,
denying the pass, hounding the dribble, and denying the drive, Bird
just didn't cut it.  He had slow feet and couldn't jump.  He would
usually "guard" the oponent's 3 or 4, whomever had the weakest O.
This would allow him to play off his man, closer to the lane for help
D on drives and closer to the hoop for D rebounds.  He certainly
played hard on D but that didn't make him a good defender.

Maybe if "Bird is great/good defender" is said often here, 
then it will be so.

Brian West
-- 
west@inmet.inmet.com (or west%inmet@uunet.uu.net)
============================================================================
STANDARD DISCLAIMER: No one is responsible. 
My Astral-Projection did this, if you get my drift.
From: gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Celtics? (was Re: Boston Celtics' Rick Fox)
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:19:00 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <5916@transfer.stratus.com> halpin@sw.stratus.com (Jim Halpin) writes:
>	Jon Barry hasn't signed and there has been no news about him since the
>rookie camp. His agent thinks that a bigger salary slot will open up for Barry.

This must be the one that the agent was waiting for (Birds).  It should be
a cold day in hell before Barry gets that $1.6m.  But if the C's are that
stupid as to give him that salary, I bet it will tear the team apart.  Not
to mention that it would rehash the Brian Shaw thing.

___
A REASON NOT TO VOTE FOR BUSH:
"It's a terrible thing to lose one's mind, but what's worst is
to not have a mind at all"  --  PRESIDENT (1994) QUAYLE Addressing
				United Negro College Banquet
				Dan should know
WORDS OF WISDOM FROM NAT X
"I came from the streets" -- Vanilla Ice (KEVIN BACON).
"What streets.  Sesame Street"