From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: Mormons are not Christians
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:15:42 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.220342.59649@cc.usu.edu>, slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker) writes:
> In article <1992Oct13.024229.6978@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>,
>  press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
> > slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker) writes:
> >>  press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
> >> [...]
> >>> the lds says(like Jason), do you presume to know the
> >>> interpretations better than the lds? 
> >> 
> >> No, what we are saying is: "Do you presume to know the *LDS*
> >> interpretations better than the LDS?"
> > 
> > I think not. Joseph Smith Jr. displaced the christians with His
> > interpretations and said in effect, these interpretations are
> > correct, yours are skewed, corrupted, abominations, etc. You
> > wish to ignore this historical displacement?
> 
> Thank you for proving my point.  This is *your* interpretation
> of what Smith said, *not* the *LDS* interpretation of what Smith
> said.

Thank you for a non-answer. This is why the mormon wars never end
on Usenet.
So Joseph never re-interpreted the christian bible, or ever said
that the christians interpret the scriptures incorrectly?

> 
> [...]
> >> Mormons are not inerrantists.
> > 
> > The lds cannon scriptures contain errors?
> 
> Yes, they do.  No Mormon I know of ever claimed they are word
> perfect.  The only ones I know making *that* claim are
> anti-Mormons.

Ok, I'll keep that handy. When another comes along saying their(lds)
scriptures are inerrant, I'll point out that Jason says No.
> 
> Look at Ether 12:23-25; 1 Nephi 19:6.

I don't have the BoM handy. Are those the passages which(in effect)
apologize for errors? What of the PoGP and D&C? Those are scriptures
too right?

> 
> >> Mormons do not believe in infallable prophets or leaders.
> > 
> > Your inspired prophets babble on in unispired rhetoric?
> 
> They are just as human as you and me.  Humans make mistakes. 
> Maybe you believe that prophets lose their ability to succom to
> pride, boasting, or other human weaknesses (like Moses, Sampson,
> and Peter).

I don't recall any of the prophets or apostles you mention teaching
erroneous doctrine on a continous basis. I remember Peter succumbing
to the Law in which Paul reprimanded him. Can you honestly make these
comparisons to lds prophets who spoke way, way out, like(one example
Bringham Young)? Jason, are you hiding from your own prophets' foibles?

> 
> >> Mormons do not believe in infallable scripture.
> > 
> > Mormons have no infallible scripture?
> 
> No, they do not.  Despite your attempt to force infallability
> upon us, it just doesn't apply.  Anything that involoves humans
> is subject to human errors.  That's just the nature of things.

Saying "us" again? Do you mean just you?

> 
> > Do the magical undergarments really protect one from the devil?
> 
> Why don't you ask him yourself?

He said No. He just asks you to wear them 'cause they look funny.

> 
> > Are the undergarments infallible? 
> > Are devil repellent undergarments
> > mentioned anywhere in the christian scriptures. Were these undergarments

Well, are they mentioned in scripture? Were these articles lost
with the original twelve? where does this practice come from?

> > part of the "secrets of the kingdom" that were lost with the twelve
> > apostles?
> > You will no doubt be tempted to defuse these questions, but they are
> > serious. 
> 
> No, they are cantankerous, insolent questions intented to inflame
> and stir up contention, and to ridicule another's beliefs.

that's a good way to defuse the question as I predicted. We Are on
a public forum. The lds DO their best to promote their religion over
o.christianity, and tell christians who challenge this religion they
are rabid anti-s of the devil etc. 
I still want to know(publically)if these are some of the secrets lost
with the original twelve. No balogny, you should be proud to have
something "restored" that christianity lost. why the embarrassment?

barry--
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:18286 alt.atheism:19023