From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice)
Subject: Re: Romans 13, and variations on themes
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: fugue  
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:34:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.044223.24247@wetware.com>, 
drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes...
>

>b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) writes:
> 
>[ interesting view on romans 13 ]

Thanks, mostly I just quoted Vernard Eller though,
who quoted Jesus, Paul, Isaiah and Jeremiah.

>So can you sum it up as:
> 
>"When I think the Government is following the bible,
>it is something that I will support. But when Faced 
>with the Direct VIOLATION of BIBLICAL SCRIPTURES,
>as is the Case of the Federal Policy on Slavery,
>I will Run away from that Position and not deal with
>it as its Not really Something That I want to deal with.
>But Like when I want to Like use some of the bible, that
>I hope will help instatiate parts of what I think I will
>need to Hide My Political Agenda Behind a Religious Wrapper
>then We Will Fight the Fed's Tooth and Nail and Deprive
>Women of Free Access to Medical Facilities."
> 
>Or did I miss your point?

Yep, you missed it.

Summary: 

It's a waste of effort for a believer to dwell on 
revolutionary or reactionary efforts, such as abortion
protests or pro-choice demonstration. GOD accepts and
works in and through each and every person -- regardless 
of their humanly conceived social stances. 

For believers, dwelling on any issue which brings offense 
to another, makes it harder to be aware of GOD, and to 
love others (especially your enemies). 
	  
Sin is tolerated by GOD, and anything which exists -- 
GOD allows to go on. For the believer, it is a self-
conceit to think that their own logic is better than
the loving tolerance of GOD. 

It's an easy issue drieux. Just as are variations in 
the way that believers express their faith, which is 
well covered by Paul in Romans 14. Permit me a quote
(chp 14, verses 8-10):

	For whether we live, we live unto the Lord;
	and whether we die, we die unto the Lord:
	whether we live therefore, or die, we are
	the Lord's.

	For to this end Christ both died, and rose,
	and revived, that he might be Lord both of
	the dead and the living.

	But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why
	dost set at nought thy brother? for we shall
	all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.


For those who aren't believers, I can see how it's hard
(and probably seen as crazy) for those who believe to 
step back and wait for GOD to work matters out in GOD's
own good time and way. For believer's who forget that,
well, Peter and Paul were no better -- they had their
times of doubt as well. And I'm sure the brothers and
sisters of Islam and Judaism can cite times of doubt
in the lives of each of the faithful they esteem. But
the faithful all are recovered by GOD.

All issues which divide us are trivial before GOD.	

>ciao
>drieux
>  
>ps: I am most Amused at folks who want to protect
>the Rights of Religious Activities, and the free
>actualization of those Liberties Under the Constitution,
>but Still find It ok to support Terrorists Who are
>Trying to Deny ACCESS to Medical FAcilities, based
>upon the 'Higher Calling Argument'.
> 
>I return you to the Question:
> 
>	What does it profit a man that he save his life
>	and lose his mortal Soul.
> 
>Now Clearly Rescueing the UnPostRomanCatholics from
>the PIT OF HELL, should CLEARLY take Precedence over
>merely trying to save lives....

Best one can do for another, is stand by and be ready to
help, since the birth of the spirit is an intimacy between 
GOD and each believer. No one can enter into relationship 
with GOD for another. Nor can anyone replace GOD in planting
the seed of the spirit. 

And GOD has allowed many tens of billions of people to be
born and likewise to die in the flesh. It seems to me that
there are more important concerns than the life and death of
the body. But I reckon the best way to figure it out is to
focus on GOD's love, and be patient. *Each*, no more nor less
important than another, comes to term or not, as GOD allows.

Then again, I'm only human, perhaps "you" know GOD better?

(Not necessarily directed at you drieux.)

   |
-- J --
   |
   |  Stephen     "GOD with us now"