HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hf@tk.telematik.informatik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Harald Fuchs)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Detest Germans?
Date: 22 Jan 93 13:55:12
Organization: Karlsruhe University, Germany
	<1993Jan17.192129.27257@compu.com> <93022.014410U09416@uicvm.uic.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: whyaduck.telematik.informatik.uni-karlsruhe.de
In-reply-to: Pankaj Saxena's message of Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:44:10 CST

In article <93022.014410U09416@uicvm.uic.edu>, Pankaj Saxena <U09416@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:

> In article <1993Jan17.192129.27257@compu.com>, fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from
> home) says:

>>The British weren't particularly pleased with the new kid on the
>>block who was beating them up commercially the world over and who
>>was moving to also attempt to colonize the third world barbarians to
>>get raw supplies from them cheaply.

> Your tone here isn't much different from the Nazis...

That's right, but see below.

> so no wonder you
> sympathize with them.

I didn't notice that up to now. Perhaps _you_ didn't notice that Fred
talks about WW1 and the time before, not about WW2. He talks about the
age of imperialism, when _every_ European power, including Britain,
said "The people in the 3rd world are inferior, but if we teach them
to do it our way, maybe they can get some civilization. So let's grab
as many territories as we can." Of course it was only an official
excuse for exploitation, suppression and sometimes genocide, but many
people in Europe were comfortable with that.
The fact that Fred uses this terminology to describe the situation
doesn't make him agree with it.
--

Harald Fuchs <hf@tk.telematik.informatik.uni-karlsruhe.de>
From: rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Thirteen tribes :)
Keywords: qweerrty
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:24:13 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1993Jan21.143431.203485@uctvax.uct.ac.za> naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>There were thirteen Israelite tribes not twelve:
>We all know that Judah and Benjamin were not exiled by the Assyrians, and if you
>check up you'll see that neither was Simeon. Also the Levites and Kohanim were
>not lost. This leaves only 9 "lost" tribes. :)

That's absolutely right.  Which just goes to show that people don't know how
to count.

   Robert

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: levie@dutiws.twi.tudelft.nl (M.Levie.TA-tel-7230)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: MLK and Jeff Fields
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:17:10 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology

From: jhf@dbrus.Unify.Com (Jeff Fields)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King Quotes
Date: 21 Jan 93 01:46:35 GMT


>"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews; you're taking anti-Semitism"

J. Fields writes:

>Although I am an advocate of M.L.K., I believe that what he said here is
>both a generalization and a promulgation of a term that lacks meaning. I
>know that there are some Jews who do not support Zionism, i.e. not all
>Jews are Zionists nor are all who criticize Zionists anti-Jewish.


I guess a dumb listener needs more than two sentences, and He finely tries to
blurr the power of MLK's words. Instead of *BEWARE OF ANTI-SEMITISM*, his
words (in Fields' version) become: *ITS OK TO BE ANTI-ZIONIST BECAUSE THERE
ARE JEWS THAT AREN'T ZIONISTS*. Nice revisionism, but it shows your evil
intentions .

Next paragraph:

>Also not all Semites are Jews. 

You seem not to be able to listen, do You ? MLK cleary said *ZIONISTS*, and
ALL Jews are Semites.

Now come the lies:

>Anti-Semitism was a term invented in the
>Zionist movement of the 19th century. 

Its clear You've been an F student in History, or worse.

The term *Anti-Semite* was invented by a ANTI-JEWISH german group in Berlin
around 1870, in order to get at Jews indirectly. The guys who invented the
term wanted (check any book on the Shoa -Holocaust-) to make it *Salonfahig*
(Oh, yes, you dumb americans can't read german..It means: *Respectable*).

More trash follows:

>The Semites are a geographical class of people
>who have traditionally inhabited the area in and adjacent to the modern
>nation of Israel. There are many tribal and religious divisions in the
>Semitic peoples, which include Muslims, Jews, and Christians.

Nice, and maybe even true NOW, but alas not at the time at which the term 
*Anti-Semitism* was invented. It was, and is still directed at JEWS.


Peaceful coexistence as MLK saw it can only occur when one man doesn't spread 
malice and lies about his fellow man.

It seems to me, *Jeff Fields*, You are nowhere near that ideal.

M.Levie

Flames to /dev/null
From: bm25+@andrew.cmu.edu (Beth Allison Moses)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Work in Israel (help)
Date: 25 Jan 93 08:20:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.ofN2xmy00UhBA3sCNB
Organization: Senior, IM - Graphic Communications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I am looking for work in Israel, and would appreciate some advice (I
imagine I am posting at the right place!)

I am currently a college senior in Carnegie Mellon University's printing
program. I graduate in May and will be going to Israel. I'd like to find
a job (or at least job leads) in the printing industry there before I go
and preferably as soon as possible. I have considerable work experience,
and am acquiring Hebrew currently (and will take an Ulpan in Israel).

If you know of any organizations (besides a sheliach) that might be of
service, or if you have any personal contacts and wouldn't mind helping
out, I would appreciate it if you'd email me at this account.

Also, if you have any advice on what kind of visa/immigrtation status to
travel with (to stay and work in Israel for about 2 years), I'd
appreciate that too.

Thanks in advance.

BETH
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Andy again... (was Re: Was Arafat a GIRL
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:31:00 GMT

Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:


>Skoll says:

>>>Style conventions vary

>>Face it, Andy.  You're wrong.  In any case, no "style convention"
>>allows for dangling participles.

>>>in any case how is this relevant to judaism?

>>As relevant as your put-downs of Erlich's fluency in English, or
>>your long reposts of political articles.

>>-
>>David Skoll.

>For heaven's sake David, stop being so anal retentive and GET A LIFE!!!

     Andy,
     Please drop my request if you intended to write to David only (but why
through s.c.j. then?), but otherwise, for the benefit of s.c.j. readers whose
native or current language is not English or American or Canadian English,
would you mind teach us what is the meaning of "anal retentive" and of
"GET A LIFE"?
     I was born and educated in France, and lived there for 33 years before
returning home. I have very great difficulty understanding popular French
as spoken in Montreal or Quebec. There is nothing else than that in my request.
     I post this through s.c.j. because I am certain that I am not the only
one wishing to kindly ask that posts be written for the wide audience, not
encoded.                 
     Jacques

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: How do Jews reconcile science and philosophy with their faith?
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:31:07 GMT

In <44049@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington) writes:

>There seem to be many Jews (perhaps non-practising) in the sciences
>and mathematics.  Perhaps some of them even read this newsgroup.  It
>seems to me that it is difficult to reconcile various scientific
>accomplishments with religion in general.  For example, evolution
>and the big-bang theory run contrary to the account given in the
>Bible.  In the philosophical realm, I haven't heard any defenses of
>free will vs. determinism or other dilemmas given by people of a
>Jewish background.  So, how do you people do it?  "It" refers to
>reconciling your fundamental religious beliefs with the scientific
>and philosophic theories (&c.) of the day.

Well, some (a few) Jews do not reconcile science with religion, and
view science as wrong or incomplete.  But most, even the Orthodox, do
not insist on interpreting the Bible literally as, say, fundamentalist
Christians would.

Judaism in general is a practical religion, and perhaps doesn't care
very much about the dilemmas over free will vs determinism.  At least,
those issues are very interesting, and certainly have a place in
religious discussion, but they are not the overriding concerns of
Judaism, and settling them one way or the other is not really a major
goal.

Judaism also is a much less "organized" religion than many others -
there is no universally accepted dogma (Maimonides 13 principles are
about the closest we have), and no religious body even attempts to
impose one.

(Actually, a couple of years ago, I did enter into the free
will/determinism debate on the UseNet, but found it frustrating and
pointless, because most authors simply were using it as a forum to
either bash or push religion rather than talk about the subject
dispassionately.)

--
David F. Skoll
From: hlevene@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Howard Levene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Send a fax to the Almighty!!!
Date: 22 Jan 93 01:54:27 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <gZ4PXB1w165w@valpso.hanse.de> tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
>I've just read it in the news 

>BEZEK,  the israeli telephone company, installed a fax next to the Kotel
>(Wailing Wall) where everybody can send a prayer or petition to God, and
>an employee of the company puts them  afterwards in the gaps between the 
>stones of the wall.  The best of it: this service is free of charge! The
>fax number is:                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>                        (++ 972 2) 61.22.22
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de

Actually, I read in an "Off the Newswire" report today that the service is

****NOT**** Free of Charge!

I tend to believe this since otherwise the phone company employees would be
overwhelmed with unpaid service calls.

So, check with your local phone companies for the final word on the charges if
there are any.

Good luck!

--
 Howard B. Levene              |    "I'll call you the next time I pass
   You'd think I'd use someone |         through your star system."
      else's opinions?         |          -- Commander Wil Riker, ST:TNG
 hlevene@eniac.seas.upenn.edu  |  Data is a Mechanical Engineer, too.
From: hlevene@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Howard Levene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: How do Jews reconcile science and philosophy with their faith?
Keywords: HitchHiker's Guide
Date: 27 Jan 93 07:30:35 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <44049@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington) writes:
>There seem to be many Jews (perhaps non-practising) in the sciences
>and mathematics.  Perhaps some of them even read this newsgroup.  It
>seems to me that it is difficult to reconcile various scientific
>accomplishments with religion in general.  For example, evolution
>and the big-bang theory run contrary to the account given in the
>Bible.  In the philosophical realm, I haven't heard any defenses of
>free will vs. determinism or other dilemmas given by people of a
>Jewish background.  So, how do you people do it?  "It" refers to
>reconciling your fundamental religious beliefs with the scientific
>and philosophic theories (&c.) of the day.
>
>					Perplexed,
>					Matt Harrington

Evolution and the Big Bang do not run contrary to the account given in the
Torah by one of the following explanations:

1)  Torah described creation is allegorical and needn't be reconciled with 
	science.

2)  G-d decided that when He revealed the Torah, He'd leave out the part about
	Schroedinger's Time Independent Wave Equations for fear that the
	ancient Hebrews wouldn't quite understand it.

3)  Ask Slartibartfast (ref.  Hitchkiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

4)  The Universe was created seeming to be 20 billion years old in as much as
	Adam was created as a full grown man even when his chronological age
	would make him a baby.  This statement can neither be proven nor 
	disproven.

All these situations allow us technical types (I'm a Mechanical Engineering
Senior) to avoid trying to reconcile Science and G-d.  We just invoke Occam's
[sp?] Razor and go on our merry way practicing science and practicing religion.

--
 Howard B. Levene              |    "I'll call you the next time I pass
   You'd think I'd use someone |         through your star system."
      else's opinions?         |          -- Commander Wil Riker, ST:TNG
 hlevene@eniac.seas.upenn.edu  |  Data is a Mechanical Engineer, too.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:26173 talk.religion.misc:27655
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Child abuse ordered by G-d
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:16:36 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1993Jan22.201427.7917@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com> max@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com (Max Webb) writes:
>If the only way to prevent abuses of a law is to pile on so
>many preconditions that it never applies, how can it be a good
>law?

That's not the point.  "never applies" is wrong.  The fact is, though
that if a child is SO bad that these conditions do apply, I think
anyone in his right mind would wish the child killed.  It's just
fortunate luck that such a case never came to be.  But I think there
would be enough cases in this generation.


-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: egw@utkvx1.utk.edu (Wolpert, Edward Greenwal)
Subject: Liberal Talmud?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Talmud 
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:53:00 GMT


	I have a question I'd like to through out into the net... In my Talmud
discussion class, Today we talked about the difference in commontaries of the
Mishnah.  We compared the Gemarah to Mishnah Torah and other commentaries.  One
thing we noted that where the Gemarah said that on Yom Kippur, it was ok to
have half a mouth full of water, [The actual tract in Yoma said less than a
mouth full of water] and one of the commentaries writen in the middle ages said
absolutly no water.  [The name escapes me currently, help in net land?]
	This was explained that when the Gemarah was writen, many people had
access to Torah, and they were trying to understand the Mishnah.  The other
commentaries were writen when Jews' access to Torah was limited, and there
was a fear that such 'liberal' laws might be violated in such a way to 
violate Torah [since there was no access to it.]  
	I would like to know what views people have on this subject... Do they
see the commentaries of the Mishnah getting conservative over time?  If so,
then why?  If you disagree with this view, tell why(examples)?  Actuall 
reffs availible on request, and when I fished them out of my notebook. *grin*
		Virtually,
		Edward Wolpert
wolpert@neon.chem.utk.edu  "G-D gave Torah to the Jews,
wolpert@lead.chem.utk.edu   not the Jews to Torah."
egw@utkvx.utk.edu                -Rabbi Simon

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: Has Chabad gone crazy?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:49:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.223839.25174@nynexst.com>, schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz) writes:
> 
> In article <6054@ceylon.gte.com>, sg04@gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund) writes:
> > 
> 
> I will simply mention the cases of Jacob Frank and Shabtai Zvi.  History
> is not my forte, so I'll leave it to others to fill in the details.
> 

I was going to answer the first time, but Steve has started the answer
so let me finish.

Add to the list David Reubini.

Shabtai Zvi was the most disasterous.  His claim received nearly
global approval.  It isn't clear if this was due to the quality
of the claim, or the morale collapse in Eastern Europe
after the Khmelnicki massacres, which precede Zvi's appearance
by just a few years.  Anyway, around 25,000 of his followers
became Muslims (descendants still in Turkey called Donehmehs, from
both Ashkenazi and Sephardic origins), Sabbetaians continued to
harm rabbinic thought from within as well, and studies done
at various Genizahs in Europe and North Africa are revealing
the little secret of the day, that virtually all of the rabbis
of Europe, North Africa and the East had certified his claim
in writing (only the Jerusalem academies refused to accept
him) and subsequently destroyed the erroneous edicts.
The stories of Jews selling their property, packing and
waiting for Zvi and his spiritual advisor Nathan of Gaza to come
and bring them back to Israel are extant.  The powerful Sephardic
advisors to the Ottoman Sultan ruined Zvi, as he was seen as a
threat to their power.  They advised the Sultan to execute
him claiming that a Messianic figure would cause disharmony
in the Empire among the Jews.  The Sultan agreed,and to save
himself from death Zvi became a Muslim of a sort,
taking many of his follwers with him.   Salonica was their strongest
area until the Ottomans withdrew from the Balkans, the Donehmehs going
with the Muslims to Turkey.  They still exist in Istanbul.

Jacob Frank was mainly a Polish Jewish phenomenon.  He initially
had strong support,  his followers
became Catholics, and Frankists still exist in Poland and Russia.
Jacob Frank became an Eastern Orthodox Christian of some sort.

David Reubini was very popular among Sephardim, but died rotting
in a Spanish prison.  He was himself not of Spanish origin.
His popularity was probably because of the disasterous events
in Spain and North Africa.

Given the number of Jewish casualties caused by Bar Kochba
one would have to say his messianic claim was also a disaster
for the Jewish people.

Need we mention Jesus in this regard as well?

	Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
From: segs@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (susan.e.slusky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosherizing Recipes
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:18:32 GMT
Organization: AT&T


Brian asks about kosher substitutes for a few common treyf ingredients
Here are some I've used:

Shrimp: There are several kosher shrimp substitutes on the market now
made with pollack and flavoring. One is called "I can't believe it's not
Shrimp" or some such, O-U certified. Crab is also available.

Ham: Corned Beef 

Chinese Style shredded pork: smoked turkey, Empire brand, O-U

Bacon: Bacos (soy chips, pareve, O-U)

Welsh Rabbit: Welsh rabbit is really a cheese and beer sauce
that you dip toast into. The name is some kind of English joke about
the Welsh. But for rabbit I'd use chicken.
From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The Thirteenth Tribe
Keywords: khazars
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:54:49 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town

> Ah, to naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za (Colin) who writes on the subject 
> of Arthur Koestler's book:
> 
>>Of course the neo-Nazis love to claim that modern Jews are descended 
>>from any one but the Israelites. 
> 
> I suggest that he keep the Nazi and neo-Nazi thread away from this
> discussion. Koestler, while perhaps not a good historian, was a fine
> writer and, with his Hungarian-Jewish background, was as far from
> Nazism as it can only be imagined.
> 
> Jeremi

I wasn't actually referring to Koestler's book. What I had in mind was the
habitual statement made by the neo-Nazi group the AWB that the modern Jews are 
of Mongolian descent.

(As the Manchurian said to the Jew: "Funny, you don't look Mongolian.") 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: sdubin@igc.apc.org (Stephen Dubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Slavery (was Torah Morals)
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:09:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:199301201351.AA09370@das.wang.co:1394144244:cdp:1473600029:000:170
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!sdubin    Jan 21 16:09:00 1993


I have always understood the phrase, "Ki sikneh 'eved Ivri, shesh shanim
y'avod,"  to be the Biblical origin of academic tenure.  At the end of 
seven years - up or out!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: avi@dwanny.dco.dec.com (Avi Frydman)
Subject: Info Needed..Smith v. State of Oregon
Keywords:  Court, Religious freedom
Reply-To: avi@dwanny.dco.dec.com (Avi Frydman)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:11:26 GMT

My daughter (9th grade) is about to do a research project about the Supreme 
Court case of Smith v  Stae of Oregon.  This is the recent case that disallowed
the use of peyote in Native American rituals.  

Does anyone have  online access to the decision and some of the  amicus briefs?

I'd  appreciate  copies .  She  (and I) have limited access to a law library.

Thanks,
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Telnetting into ALEPH
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:41:59 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

I've forgotten how to telnet intothe ALEPH system in Israel to do a 
library search at some of the universities.

Would one of you be kind enough to remind me?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: beaucham@astro.phy.ulaval.ca (Dominique Beauchamp)
Subject: TO STEVE POTTER
Organization: Universite Laval, Ste-Foy, Qc, Canada
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:51:13 GMT

Hi Steve,

Since it seems impossible for you to talk about something else,
I suggest you transfer to group ALT.FLAME so I will have
the opportunity to tell you what I have "sur le coeur" for
a couple of weeks...

I hope you won't have problem with police tonight when you
will speak english at home.  I know Quebec is a "tough"
province!

Dominique
From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: test (don't bother reading)
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:55:50 +0200
Keywords: hello
Organization: University of Cape Town


Testing testing 1 2 3
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Davidic Lineage
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:01:45 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <1993Jan25.220636.6510@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
>
>There have occasionally been posts from people talking
>about Davidic lines, in particular missionaries make the
>claim that we have lost all of our Davidic lines.
>
>Interestingly, in "The Jews of Muslim Spain" there is
>some discussion about the roots of various communities
>of Jews in Spain, and in connection with this it is
>stated that the Abrabanel (Abravanel) family tradition
>was that it was Davidic, descended from Judaean
>nobles who were brought to Spain at the time of the destruction
>of the Second Temple.
>
>If anyone has to answer the question, from where can the Messiah
>come, here is one answer.
>
>
>		Seth Rosenthal
>
>Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.

I heard once that names like "King", "Koenig", "Kingsley" were commonly 
assumed by European Jews to preserve an indication of Davidic lineage.  
If I am not mistaken, the large scale adaptation of non-Hebrew names 
by Jews happened for political reasons in the eigteenth century. Does
anyone know about this?

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish