From: jnomina@andy.bgsu.edu (A.P.K.)
Subject: Re: Discrimination
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 19:41:15 GMT

nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu (Nathan Engle) writes:
> jnomina@andy.bgsu.edu (A.P.K.) writes:
>>jpsb@NeoSoft.com (Jim Shirreffs) writes:
>>> Get your hair cut, get damn job, and don't brother us 
>>> until you can make these tuff decisions for yourself. 
> 
>>     Actually, this isn't a tough decision, excepting as it
>>conflicts legally and ethically with all other forms of
>>discrimination.  Why should males be forced to conform to
>>certain standards which no one anywhere else is forced to
>>conform to such standards.  It'd look rather funny if all women
>>were suddenly forced to get their hair hair cut short, not
>>allowed to wear makeup, forced to only where suits and
>>ties, no jewelry allowed except weeidng bands, etc...
> 
>     I'm afraid that I find your moral dilema less convincing when you try 
> to justify it on those grounds. Males are *not* the only ones who are 
> 'forced' to conform to standards. Certainly the standards are different 
> for different groups and under different circumstances, but that *can't* 
> be what's bugging you unless you're one of those people who tries to use 
> a screwdriver to hammer in nails.

     I know that males are not the only ones discriminated against,
on the lines of discrimination I was using as an example.  It's just
that to base a hiring policy on such grounds may be considered to be
unfair (as are other examples.)  Having never really been in the
private sector of the job market, I didn't know what to expect.  Then,
when so many people around me started insisting that I had to have
a haircut just to go in for an interview, it seemed as though the
job market may well be unfairly discriminatory.  Considering many
of the responses I've received, especially e-mail, it seems as
though this isn't as prevalent as some people here around me may
have implied.

     As for pounding nails with a screwdriver ... I haven't done
that often.  Just when I'm trying to set a finishing nail and I
don't have a punch handy.  Then I might use a very small screwdriver
as a punch...  :)

> 
>>     Personally, I'm flexible on the issue.  I had to be if
>>I was in the military for eight years with short hair, I'll
>>live with it again if it's that necessary.  But when everyone
>>around me tells me to get a haircut for a job interview with
>>no logical basis behind their statements whatsoever, other
>>that to conform to some social standard or possibly be
>>discriminated against during job selection, I can't justify
>>that as a direct reason for doing it.
> 
>     If you don't consider the possibility of not getting a job because of  
> having long hair a logical reason for cutting your hair then I'm not sure 
> what to tell you. There really isn't much rhyme or reason to it besides 
> that, and that rule is *not* cast in stone. I've known plenty of long-
> haired software jugglers, but in practically every case those guys had 
> effectively 'earned' the privelage of having long hair by having superlative 
> skills which tipped any balance in their favor. If you feel that your skills 
> are good enough to tip the balance for you then by all means keep your long 
> hair. In some ways it might be a psychological advantage in that it sort 
> of projects the image that *you* think your skills are good enough that 
> your hair doesn't matter. Maybe that's enough.

     Which is exactly as I'd wish to be judged by an employer
at an interview, by skills and abilities alone.  I'm confident in
my abilities as a programmer, within the bounds of that which
I've already learned and know, although I can admit that I've
still got a lot to learn when it comes to programming, as well.
But then, is it possible for any programmer to truly know it
all?  There may well be a small few, but I'm forced to think
that it would be almost impossible.

     Well, hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to post some really
GOOD news.  But keeping with proper net protocol, I'll stick it
on alt.good.news...

Jim


Xref: sparky alt.rush-limbaugh:12635 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:11053 alt.politics.clinton:19351 alt.politics.bush:15217 alt.politics.homosexuality:8685