HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: ROC and the Catholic question
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:33:32 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <92232.190731GOGOLEKP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> GOGOLEKP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Peter Gogolek) writes:
>  majority of Protestants in this country.  Furthermore, I would
>  think that nonchristian and areligious are a large fraction of
>  the population.

In old census (i.e. those we can see the person's identity and who is
what, that is 1891 and before), the religion indicates the official
affiliation (for protestants) or the church someone is the closer.
In other words, in the previous century, they did ask you what
was your church.  If you answer "none", then they ask which one is
your preferred.  This is according to comments found on census (comments
in English written after some census officer found he asked the
wrong questions; in French speaking area, protestant were very rare).

I suppose that today's census would be the same, that is despite many
people are agnostic (even if they don't know what the word mean!),
they are counted as member of XXX church.  FYI, agnostic means someone
who just don't care about god existence.  You can even be agnostic and
of christian faith (like the Arianist church that virtually does not
exist today, but with which I sympathize : their credo was that Jesus
was a human like you and me).

As for political application, I just don't see any effect.  Most "hard faith"
catholics I know does not have a christian behaviour.  The language and
the fact that francophones are more right than other non-anglophones in
Canada is of more effect.

Finally, I think Kennedy was among the very few catholic US presidents.
Does this make him different from others?

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
From: thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: The tentative agreement of August 19th
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:55:12 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Matrox Ltd.

Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:

>Gerald Olchowy is more relaxed than I am about the representation proposed in
>this new deal.

>If the new Commons is to have 337 seats, then on average each seat should
>represent 81,110 Canadians (not all of whom are old enough to vote). On that
>basis, some provinces emerge with much more proportional clout; in effect, some
>of us will be more equal than others.

It is plain that provincial boundaries are getting in the way of seat
redistribution.  For the sake of equality of citizens, this should end.

--
Thomas Hood                                                    thood@matrox.com
Xref: sparky can.politics:6133 soc.culture.canada:6008
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias)
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome": Update
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:35:10 GMT


In article <1992Aug16.124308.7895@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ematias@dgp.toronto.e
du (Edgar Matias) writes:
>
>This is *very* interesting.  So, if I understand correctly, it would be
>*legal* to have a sign that said (in French) in BIG letters "F*CK THE
>LANGUAGE LAWS" with the word "welcome" (in many languages) written in _small_
>letters underneath?

In article <Bt4uzH.6z1@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>
beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) replies:
>
>This would not be legal.  The small letters message shall be the same.
>Moreover, maybe there is something againt hate signs.

Ok, so have all the text read the same.  Is there a law against promoting
intercourse with a law...?  

Edgar
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Governors-General (was Re: God Save your Queen)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 05:56:20 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada

peterd@cc.mcgill.ca (Peter Deutsch) writes:

> In article <a1N9oB1w164w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
> .  .  .
> >  One idea would be to elect the GG instead of this appointment business.
>
> At which point we don't need the Queen. After all, isn't
> the entire point of the GG that he is the Queen's
> representative in her absence? If the GG becomes an
> elected official, that would imply that he or she becomes
> _our_ representative and Betty Windsor and her family can
> take a well-earned retirement.
>
> This is great, Yadallee arguing to dispose of the
> monarchy!
>
> (yeah, yeah I know that's not what you meant, but this was
> too much fun to pass up).
>
>
>                                       - peterd
  Excuse me, but we elect our representative, why not choose who Her Majesty's
representative democratically. Let's start a 20th Century trend. As for your
staring phrase - NOT!!!

Dave Shariff Yadallee
yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All!
cowboy (n): A 20th Century extension of  the neanderthal caveman.
From: andy-w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Andrew webster)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: In the eyes of the USA..
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 00:05:03 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #2, Edmonton, AB, Canada

You all have heard lotto/USA?? Well what do you all think of this:
The AA-1 program, as it is called includes Canada on its list of 
countries that qualify for this lottery. But being a Canadian citizen is 
not good enough! You have to be "born" here to qualify. So if you have 
been here 40 years, a citizen, but born somewhere else you are out of 
luck. Does this mean there are 2 classes of citizens, real Canadians
and not so real according to the Americans??

Andrew webster              andy-w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
Edmonton Remote Systems:  Celebrating 10 years of service to Northern Alberta
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome": Update
Date: 17 Aug 92 12:32:38 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 1662

From article <1992Aug16.124308.7895@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, by ematias@dgp.toronto.edu 

 Edgar Matias suggests:-

> 
> In article <1992Aug12.231921.15668@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter
> ) writes:
>  
>      New Update: Quebec Gov.'s "Welcome" message to tourists is in
>      no less than 9 languages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>  
>      Harry Schick (Viennese pastry shop in Pt. Claire) is being
>      prosecuted for having multilingual "Welcome" on his windows.
>  
>      Apparently, so long as the "principle" message is in French
>      only, you can put whatever you like!
> 
> This is *very* interesting.  So, if I understand correctly, it would be
> *legal* to have a sign that said (in French) in BIG letters "F*CK THE 
> LANGUAGE LAWS" with the word "welcome" (in many languages) written in _small_
> letters underneath?
> 
> Hm...  Maybe it's a good thing I don't live in Quebec...  ;-)
> 

  Recent rulings on this would indeed seem to indicate that a sign similar
  to the one you suggest would be quite legal.

  In fact, it might be argued that "F*CK THE LANGUAGE LAWS" is not a
  commercial but an ideological message and that part of the poster could
  even be in English!

  The word "F*CK" might be illegal for other reasons but I see no reason
  why one could not use, say, "DAMN" or "STUFF" or "DOWN WITH" etc.

  :-)

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
From: hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Minority education rights (was: Radio stations in Quebec,...)
Date: 16 Aug 1992 01:08:49 GMT
Organization: University of Windsor, Ontario, Canada

In article <1992Aug14.145706.29979@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter) writes:

>  Rene Levesque signed with other first ministers an agreement that
>  included allowing minority language schooling for ALL minority
>  language children;


Do you really mean ALL MINORITY LANGUAGES, or just the "OFFICIAL"
Minority Languages? 

Newsgroups: can.politics
From: smith@minerva.harvard.edu (Steven Smith)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: REpublicanisn vs. Monarchists (Was Re: Beauregard vs. Yadallee)
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:10:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: minerva.SMITH.92Aug13091021
	<SMITH.92Aug10122030@gramian.harvard.edu> <12573@grayt> <12575@grayt>
Organization: Harvard Robotics Lab, Harvard University

In article <12575@grayt> grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray) writes:

> >> Canada was set up as a nation to rebuff the Republican influence of
> >> the USA and to preserve the British, French Cultures and the
> >> Aboriginal people.  In fact traditional lifestyles in a purely
> >> European Culture.
> >
> >This is laughably disingenuous.  The country of Canada was established
> >to protect British interests in North America.  Not even an Englishman
> >would be able to keep a straight face if you told him that Canada was
> >intended to both ``preserve ... the aboriginal people'' and
> >``traditional lifestyles in a purely European Culture.''
> 
> This assertion is laughably disingenuous [sic] [[?]]. Canada was set
> up to create a national state within which the existing British and
> French cultures could survive and flourish. MacDonald with his
> National Policy attempted to create a national culture. Mercier and
> Howe with their policy of provincial rights tried to preserve the
> local provincial cultures.
> 
> Canada was not set up to protect British interests. It was set up to
> preserve the existing cultures. I find Yadallee's assertion plausible.
> Yours I find to be preposterous or as you point out "disingenuous".
> For as we all know grammar and spelling are of great import but
> semantics can be charmingly idiosyncratic.

While the Canadian colonies colonies had legitimate national
ambitions, without which a country could not be forged, England
recognized that to secure British North America -- especially the
virtually empty and vulnerable northwestern territory controlled by
the Hudson's Bay Company -- to their expanding empire required a
stable legitimate government whose rule extended across the continent.
The whole reason Durham was sent was to identify how the political and
economic dissatisfaction of the 1830s could be corrected.  In these
endeavors the Canadian nation builders and the British Empire builders
were overwhelmingly successful.  The version you present, while true,
is incomplete and probably doesn't belong outside a grade school
civics class.  It's downright silly or naive or both to think that
this British orchestrated achievement didn't serve British interests.

Steven Smith
Xref: sparky can.politics:5967 soc.culture.canada:5803
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: History of North America, plus More Current events!!
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 05:40:43 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #2, Edmonton, AB, Canada

  Just responding to S. Clamen from private mail he sent me:

  1)  The U.S.A. is still playing war of Attrition with us, so they
      are probably, IMHO, waiting us out to come to our senses.

  2) As for those secret ecoomic sanctions, all USInc has to do is persuade
      the corporations to pull its investment from Canada until it became
      part of the USA.

 Stewart, don't be offended but I think some the mail you sent could have
posted as points of question or point of privelege.  However, as always, your
input is always appreciated.

Getting on with the rest of the news now:

1) My Canada Includes:

    -God, Queen and Country.

    -The primacy of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms including
      the facts of Quebecce's distinctiveness  and Native Self-Government
      subject to the Charter!

    - Quebec being treatedon an equal basis with the other provinces.

    - Indian self-government to be at the same level of municipal governments.

 2) NAFTA:

      Could anyone produce the text of the deal on net?

 3)  Also, can we get back to talking economics which IMHO is of greater
     importance than anything.

Dave Shariff Yadallee
yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All!
cowboy (n): A 20th Century extension of  the neanderthal caveman.
Xref: sparky can.politics:5893 soc.culture.canada:5712
From: smith@minerva.harvard.edu (Steven Smith)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Republicanisn vs. Monarchists
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:31:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: minerva.SMITH.92Aug13093154
	<1992Aug11.155514.12356@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>
	<c291042.713653540@gsb015>
Organization: Harvard Robotics Lab, Harvard University

c291042@cs.UAlberta.CA (David Yadallee) writes:

> > If so, do you really think that having no monarch will mean we are part of
> > the US?  Hardly.
> 
> On the contrary, the day Canada announces itself to become a
> REpublic, USInc will smile with glory, and do everything it can to
> annex Canada.

Not that I mistrust your sagacity in these matters, but this does
flout the wisdom of Machiavelli, who wrote that of all cities or
countries, republics are the hardest to conquer and to govern, while
those ruled by a prince are the easiest.  Are you so sure that a
republican Canada would so quickly succumb?

Steven Smith
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian J Ross)
Subject: Absolute Madness... Naturally.
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Brock University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:49:29 GMT

golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
: Our first ministers have gone mad...they are actually talking
: about getting rid of representation by population in the
: House of Commons...
: 
: What they are talking about will screw the West for perpetuity.
: [...] 
: If what they were discussing on the news this morning comes to
: pass...Canada is doomed...maybe not in the next decade, but not
: long thereafter.

I agree.  What is happening of course is that they are panicking, and are 
trying to tackle too much in too little time.  It's akin to trying to build a
Space Shuttle from scratch from common household appliances, in an hour.

The best thing that could conceivably happen right now is for Bourassa to
be convinced to postpone his referendum.  If this isn't possible, then 
cross ones fingers and let things fall where they may:  a poorly conceived 
deal would be a greater disaster.  

My pet solutions are these. (A) Redefine the provincial borders based
on current demographics, which might involve coalescing some provinces
(the Maritimes) and breaking up others (Quebec, Ontario). Have a constitutional
requirement that this should be done every 50-100 years. Then institute
an equal senate based on these demographic areas.  But since this will never 
happen in this time-space continuum, a better plan is probably (B) total
national devolution. Why not? Everyone else is doing it.

-- 
Brian Ross                            "At the end of the day, all money gets you
bross@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca        is a better place to watch television."
                                       -- Dana Carvey
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: Absolute Madness... Naturally.
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:45:35 GMT

In article <BtAM0G.H6F@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.083954.28846@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:
>>
>>     There will be no referendum in Quebec -
>>
>>     Bourassa will likely call on election instead.
>
>Good!  With the stupid agreement they announced yesterday (the only
>use of a minimum 25% of seats for Quebec corresponds to a racist
>behaviour of stopping almost completely immigration), Bourassa will
>loose the elections.

Or else, Denis may get a severe shock, and find out that he does NOT
represent the views of Quebec as a whole.

It's interesting to note that for this post, Denis does not use his
"my opinions" disclaimer:
>
>-- 
>  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
> /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
>J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
>\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !

Still, an election in-lieu of a referendum would have some interesting
twists; a victory for Bourassa would be taken as a victory for
federalism, and for the proposed agreement.  A Bourassa loss would not
be as clear-cut, though - I doubt the new PQ government could claim
that this gives them a mandate to initiate separation.  (A lot would
depend, of course, on what the PQ would present as their electoral
platform.)

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: chris.davis@rose.com (chris davis)
Subject: Re: Labatts/Molsons
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Distribution: can
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 17:19:36 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 08-15-92 12:12
TO: ph3@unixg.ubc.ca
Subject:  Molson/Labbatts

P(> 
P(> (Really, why would anyone drink a beer whose only qualities they feel safe in
P(> advertising are the bodies of the models and the fact that you should drink it
P(> cold. Sheesh.)
P(> 
I may have missed the point of this statement, but advertising wise, 
this is all they are legally allowed to show.
---
   RoseReader 1.70 R002529: Let him who is stoned cast the first sin.
   RoseMail 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: ROC and the Catholic question
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 04:30:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.194502.19391@ccu.umanitoba.ca> feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld) writes:
>According to the latest census data I've been able to achieve, Canada
>is just short of 50% (nominally) Catholic.
>
>This fact is significant federally in several ways, not least when it
>comes to appointments to , and the actions of, the Supreme Court.
>
>A Canada without Quebec would be much less Catholic, and much more
>heavily (in proportion) fundamentalist Protestant.
>
>Speculate: what would befall us as a result of this demographic
>change?

If you haven't been watching the "war" going on in the United Church,
the largest Protestant organization in the country, I'll just fill you
in.

Things like the ordination of homosexuals has split the membership.
Those at the upper echelons appear to be at the "liberal" (the
antithesis of "fundamentalist") end of the spectrum, that propose said
policy.  There are many at the "grass roots" that are strongly AGAINST
the idea.

The most likely "first action" by the United Church would be to lobby
the government to cease all trade with other nations, because it
causes environmental damage, poverty for some Canadians, and destroys
the cultural fabric of the nation.

The Anglican Church, which is most probably SECOND largest in terms of
Protestant denominations, has been involved in some fairly similar
problems in terms of dealing with the issue of homosexuality and their
ordained ministers.  And being a spin-off of the Catholic Church
(something about some English king wanting a divorce, back in the day
that Kings were Kings, peasants were peasants, and Canada was an
unknown land that was inhabited by savages), there is quite a bit of
resemblance between them and the Catholics.

I don't think that these are credible sources of "fundamentalism."
-- 
Christopher Browne
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca
University of Ottawa
Master of System Science Program
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: michele@catnix.UUCP (Michele Simond)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Queen of Canada (WAS :Re: Criticizing "My Canada includes Quebec")
Date: 19 Aug 92 06:02:48 GMT
	    <1992Aug18.003810.23068@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Organization: Rhinoceros, chargez!

pierre@chaos.phys.ualberta.ca (Pierre Rouleau) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.224135.19029@pandora.matrox.com>
>thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood) writes:

> > As for "doing something to save Canada," I am hereby
> > announcing my candidacy for the position of King of
> > Canada.  On guard, Rheal and  Peter!
>
>SAY WHAT ! ?  none of you guys are qualifed for this;
>who do you think you are ?  The idea is to replace
>Q. E-II by another QUEEN ...
>                   ^^^^^
>I propose Mitsou.


Pas besoin de Mitsou. D'une part elle est deja occupee ailleurs et
d'autre part, c'est, moi la reine.  Il ne manque
que le Prince consort pour s'occuper de mes trois jolies
princesses.... :-)



--
Michele Simond ...... Traductrice ......  B.P.: michele@catnix.UUCP
(514) 671-8820				   OU :	michele%catnix@cam.org

"L'or est le socle du savoir, le trone de la sagesse; mais si vous
confondez le socle et le savoir, il tombe sur vous et vous ecrase."
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Queen Mitsou of Canada
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:40:37 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <1992Aug20.215546.14665@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> pierre@chaos.phys.ualberta.ca (Pierre Rouleau) writes:
>roturier. Pour le prouver d'ailleurs je compte sur
>le Grand Genealogiste qu'est "Le Sieur Denis de Beauregard " 
>
>INCLINEZ-VOUS !! PROSTERNEZ-VOUS !!! Peut-etre qu'ainsi, dans
>ma magnificience, je vous eviterez les travaux forces dans
>les mines de sel de Windsor ...
>
>Pierre - Futur Regent de la Couronne -

La monarchie est hereditaire.  Il y a 6 chemins, semble-t-il, entre
certains Quebecois de souche et des rois.  Des que Pierre me transferera
ses donnees (son pedigree), j'essaierai de faire la connection et montrer
qu'il a herite de la couronne.

Moi-meme, je descends par 2 lignees de tetes couronnees.  L'une meme a
Louis VII de France, l'autre aux Stuart/Stewart d'Ecosse.  Mais, je
ne serai pas un pretendant au trone.

Si son A.R. Pierre veut bien aider, nous lui trouverons du sang bleu.

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !