From: kilpatri@nextnet.csus.edu (Joseph Kilpatrick)
Subject: Re: nihongo no shaberu gaijin
Organization: California State University: Sacramento
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 07:46:44 GMT

In article <MS-C.713679250.1103527590.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) writes:
>I've never been accused of speaking unaccented or non-stilted
>Japanese, except perhaps by certain of my friends who have an
>exaggerated opinion of my abilities.  I am all too aware of my accent
>and ungrammatical speech, and work consciously to stomp it out.  It is
>only recently that I have reached the point where I can spend two days
>in meaningful and extended conversation with a native Japanese who is
>completely unable to understand English.  I know because I recently
>did just that.
>
>However, I've observed any number of times how many self-proclaimed
>`fluent in Japanese' individuals are a good deal worse.  They may have
>a fair amount of grammar and even kanji down, but their pronunciation
>is atrocious!
>
>I suspect that there's only a dozen or so non-native speakers who can
>be considered to be truly fluent in Japanese.
>
>Very few native Japanese are going to make sense out of:
>	Corey wuh nine diskkuh?
>	Toily wuh dough-koe diskkuh?
>[actually heard out of the mouths of fellow hen-na gaijin in To^kyo^]
>
>Bad pronounciation combines with a strict usage of the sentence
>pattern:
>	[watakushi | anata] ha nani-nani [desu | -masu].
>for every sentence, plus an inexplicable reluctance to use aizuchi, to
>create a set of sounds that does not sound at all like Nihongo to the
>average native Japanese.
>
>Hint on whether or not you need pronunciation practice.  If you call a
>bilingual Japanese on the phone and he immediately switches to English
>upon hearing your `moshi-moshi', you need work.
>
>I cannot understate the importance of aizuchi and the other little
>meaningless words you add to your speech to make it more natural
>sounding and to cover for your mistakes.  An `ano....' or `ee-to' can
>open linguistic doors that `tabesaserarenakerebanaranakatta' (OK, I'm
>being facetious here) will not.
>
>If the question or its response is likely to be complex, try having a
>few startup patterns at your command that you can quickly rattle off,
>such as:
>	<appropriate number>-nen nihongo wo benkyo^-shinakatta no de,
>	mada heta nan desu kedo...
>at this point your listener is probably going to respond with aizuchi,
>most likely `hai', since it's pretty obvious at this point that you
>have a request to make.
>
>Even in simpler situations, try more indirect (adult) speech.  When
>looking for something that you suspect is in the vicinity, instead of:
>	nani-nani ha doko desu ka.
>try:
>	Ano...nani-nani wo sagash'te'ru kedo.......
>Here the response is likely to be `nani-nani desu ka', to which you
>can say something like `hai, onegai-shimasu' (sharp `hai', and stretch
>out `shimasu').

Well, I am in what would be the beginning of the the third quarter
of Japanese during the yea (I go to California no daigaku no dabisu 
which is a quarter system), and I am amazed at some of the prononciation
that my friends get away with.  For example, with suki, they say it
sue-key, when the u is supposed to be sient.  I don't know what those
aizuchi are, but they do teach us about stuff like ee-to and ano...
in fact, the sensei says that when we go in for our oral-exams we can
use them to stall for time...which is cool...
 
They way that I kinda practice (besides doing work in the listening lab_
is to listen to niho no anime no CDs and watching anime.  I know its not
exactly Old-high Japanese (my teaches says its a lot of slang) but it
gives me a chance to hear people speaking Japanese, and my Japanese friends
tell me my pronounciation is pretty good.  (It's also kinda wierd...I had a 
japanese nanny and according to my parents I was speaking nihongo before
English and they just thought it was babling...).
 
Another point is that a lot of Japanese people's pronocation of English leaves
something to be desired.  For example, my sensei has been here for over 20
years and she had a big access...then again a friend of mine has been here
5 years and could be a radio announcer...it depends on the person..

BTW, if you wanna practice listening and watching anime come over to rec.arts
.anime.... we just had a big fight over the meaning of otaku in realtion
to the Miyazaki murders...
-- 
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*"I gotta fly like a duck.......... |Alt. lyrics for "Back to Paradise" from  *
* I gotta run like a wounded badger"|Gundam0083[kilpatri.nextnet.ccs.csus.edu]*
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