HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jsc54790@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jocelyn S. Chong)
Subject: Re: Going metric
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 04:59:22 GMT

r1ckf@vax1.cc.uakron.edu (Constance K Fawcett) writes:

>I think it's high time that the ancient system of measurments that is
>currently in common use in the US be discarded in favor of the metric,
>or international system of measurments.  No other country in the world
>(except perhaps a couple of unimportant countries) uses US measures any
>more.  If the metric system was adopted, our products would be more
>exportable, and eventually we would only need one set of tools and would
>not need to convert between measures any more.  It really seems
>backwards to me to cling to an outmoded system of measurements.  I know
>that there are people who will complain about the cost of switching
>over.  It is true that retooling and converting things like road signs
>would be expensive, but I believe that at least some of the cost would
>be recred in the form of increased exports.  Also, the conversion need
>not be done all at once.  Old, worn out US measure things could be
>replaced with new metric things.  Road signs can often be changed
>without replacing them.  It would not take long to get used to the new
>measures, and things like the simpler calculations the metric system
>allows, or the illusion that you are travelling faster when distance
>markers are in kilometers rather than miles would be nice.  I hope a lot
>of people agree with me.  

I agree!  But can you imagine playing American football in metric???!!! :-)



Just me...JOCELYN
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jocelyn Chong (Email : jsc54790@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign  

	What work I have done I have done because it has been play.
	If it had been work I shouldn't have done it.
						     -Mark Twain   
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,alt.news.macedonia
From: gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Test : Plz ignore
Date: 21 Jan 93 11:21:27 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne


Problems, problems
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: harems (was: Linovamvakoi, etc etc)
Date: 23 Jan 1993 18:58:51 -0600
Organization: Delco Electronics Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

terziogl@ee.rochester.edu (Esin Terzioglu) writes:
  >>   So if there is anyone out there who claims that he/she is pure Greek,
  >>   he/she had better trace his/her family line back to fifteenth century.
  >
  > According to the above statement, some Turks should be checking if they
  > are descentants of Greeks, not the other way you are suggesting.
 
  Also, according to above, MANY Greeks should be checking if they are
  descendants of Turks!!! It goes both ways Mr.Tamamidis. Think it over,
  give it another try, you will find out that it indeed goes both ways!!

So, Esin, what did the Ottomans (tm) do with any babies born to Turkish
fathers and Greek mothers? Did they return them to the Greeks or did they
raise them as Turks? Not likely. So option (a) does not apply.

It could also go both ways if there was a concept of MALE harems (any
volunteers?) where young MALE Greeks would entertain (!) Turkish women.
And, any babies born would have to end up in the Greek side. Since this
did not happen (women's lib wasn't all that big these days :-)) it
didn't work both ways, my friend. 

I must have my newsgroups all mixed up. Is this misc.kids? what babies?
soc.culture.greek maybe? rec.harems ???

PS: i realize the inter-ethnic conditions that led to what you're 
talking about; rest assured though, harem's wasn't one of them :-)

Spiros
--
(arguments with furniture are hardly productive (Douglas Adams))
From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Subject: Re: Linovambakoi (Re: Turkish Cypriots reject ENOSIS)
Keywords: Ali Pasas, The King, Makarios, Chrysostomos, Vasiliu, Enosis, Palikaria, Akritas
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 08:48:39 GMT

terziogl@ee.rochester.edu (Esin Terzioglu) writes:

>In article <C17tv0.HnG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis) writes:
>[stuff deleted]

>>>GET OFF of it Symiris !!!
>>Besime control yourself, you are becoming a public scene.
>>Watch your typing too.  
>>
>>>Turkish Cypriots ARE TURKISH Cypriots.
>>
>>Exactly.  In your previous article you presented your arguments, which
>>were perfectly logical, and with which I agree completely.  It's how one 
>>feels that determines his ethnicity / nationality and not his genetic code.
>>Read also the posting by Lambros Skartsis about the more general subject, his
>>views are not very different than ours.
>>
>>However, the fact remains that some of the Turkish Cypriots indeed were 
>>Greek Cypriots who converted to islam during the years of the Ottoman rule.  
>>Historical Truth is Historical Truth.
>>That's the whole point I was trying to make, but your went several steps 
>>ahead and saw different intentions and implications.

>[stuff deleted]

>To all Greek Cypriots who claim that Turkish Cypriots were once Greeks(!),

>1) There is no evidence in the history of Cyprus that says that "Greek" 
>   Cypriots are related to mainland Greeks (then Byzantium). Cyprus had a
>   blend of peoples who lived on the Island (Lusignans, Venicians etc.)
>   So, present "Greek" Cypriots consider themselves to be Greek because of
>   common language and religion with the mainland Greece.

You are not serious, are you? Go read a history book and stop writing
nonsense. Do you have any idea of the history of Cyprus? Do you have
any idea of the history of the Balkans or the Asia Minor? It seems not.

>2) When Ottomans conquered Cyprus, they enslaved women and put them in
>   their harems. Hey Panos, check it out man, you could be a descendent of
>   one of those. This "enslaving women" was done in mainland Greece as well.
>   So if there is anyone out there who claims that he/she is pure Greek,
>   he/she had better trace his/her family line back to fifteenth century.

The ones that were born out of the enslaved women and converts are today 
known as Turks from Turkey. I would very surprised if you can find even 
one percent(in the average) of original turkic genetic material in the 
"Turks" of Asia Minor. 

>This article was called for by a couple of people of this net. It is not
>meant ot offend people, it is just a historical fact.

Yes, I see that you are trying to provoke a flamefest. But you provoke
innocent bystanders too. I just hope you don't believe all these crap 
you have written. If you do, some serious reading might help you.

						 Bye,
						Yannis.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,alt.news.macedonia
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: the chairman of EC says...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:18:43 GMT

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:

>Opaliko.

 Omalaka.

>Serdar Argic

 Panos Tamamidis
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12367 soc.culture.netherlands:5897 soc.culture.turkish:14617 soc.culture.usa:9960 soc.culture.soviet:12277
From: hilmi-er@teppo.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: The Chairman Of EC says:
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:16:34 GMT
Reply-To: hilmi-er@teppo.enet.dec.com
Organization: Stockholm University



Ulle Elleman Jensen , Foreign Minister
of Denmark, the chairman of EC said yesterday, 20/01/93:

   " I'm shamed of EC because it's bounded
     from Greece to not recognize Macedonia, EC must
     recognize Macedonia at once..."

The black sheep of EC, Greece, continues it's
disruption in EC and the government of Greece
has make the Macedonian issue to a sleeping-tablet
for the Greek people to hide Greece's lousy economy.




Hilmi Eren
Stockholm University
Sweden
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,alt.news.macedonia
From: c85perwe@IDA.LiU.SE (Per Westling)
Subject: Re: Ellemann-Jensen on Macedonia
Reply-To: c85perwe@und.ida.liu.se
Organization: CIS Dept, University of Linkoping, Sweden
	<JTSILLA.93Jan21131720@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu>
	<Jan22.012319.51623@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:56:33 GMT

In article <Jan22.012319.51623@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> irakliot@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Leo J. Irakliotis) writes:

> In article <JTSILLA.93Jan21131720@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu>, jtsilla@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu (James Tsillas) writes:
> |> 
> |> Despite Ellemann-Jensen's irritation Greece will probably continue to
> |> maintain its position. 

> It would be also interesting to note that the Danish minister is on hios way
> out following the Danish governement recently resigned.

The change of government has nothing to do with Ellemann-Jensen's
stance in this question.  Of course he might very well been more
"diplomatic" in his way if he would have stayed as foreign minister.

> |> This is not due to xenophobia (as anyone who
> |> knows Greece can see through this, immediately) 

> Actually Greece is one of the few EC members with no nationalist or
> neo-facism movements. Germany, UK, France, Danmark are facing problems
> with extreme right wing opposition to EC union. 

The major groups against EEC in Scandinavia are green groups, former
communists and similar.

James Tsillias suggested that Denmark would oppose the recognition of
The Republic of Macedonia if it would call itself New Copenhagen.  I
don't think they would, and for that matter, I would support them even
if they called themselves New Sweden (a name used by a part of the
world now incorporated in the USA).

BTW, another new state that has been recognized without any problem is
Slovakia [sp?].  A part of the former Slovakia was after WW II
incorporated in Soviet Union, and now belong to Ukrania.  Do anyone
know if Ukrania has opposed the new Slovakian state?  Using the Greek
argument they should do this, but have they?  Anyone that know about this?
--
Per Westling              |
Mardtoprsgatan 15         |  c85perwe@und.ida.liu.se
S-582 48 LINKOPING        |  In praise of Idleness -- Bertrand Russel
SWEDEN                    |
Stuff regarding DPP may be sent to x90perwe@ida.liu.se instead.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Errors (?) in the greek approach in the Macedonian issue.
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:43:12 GMT

>But the point is that Greece *is* blockading Macedonia.  If they want
>to have a province in their own country called Macedonia, fine.  If
>Bulgaria wants to do so, too, that's fine as well.  And if this former
>republic of Yugoslavia wants to keep its name (Macedonia), that's fine
>too.  They shouldn't be blockaded in an attempt to be forced into
>changing their name.  Note that the Greeks on the net don't admit to
>the blockade against Macedonia.

And while we're at it, I believe there is a Luxembourg province in
Belgium (that is, a case of one country stealing an entire country's
name, and not just a region).   Shouldn't NATO or the UN send in
peacekeepers to make sure that Luxembourg, the country, is protected
from the expansionist Belgians?

But I guess that we Americans should get our own act together first;
I mean, we should first resolve the our internal implied land claims;
such as-

	Jersey Shore, Pennsylvania
	Florida, New York
	Virginia City, Nevada
	Nevada County, California
	West New York, New Jersey
	Delaware County, Pennsylvania
	Delaware County, New York

and then, isn't it really sinister that Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York
all have an Erie County?  I hope the New York National Guard is on the
alert this weekend in Buffalo and Orchard Park this weekend, since everyone
else will be so absorbed in the Super Bowl, it would be no problem for
Erie County, PA (or Ohio) to reclaim some of "their" territory.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,alt.news.macedonia
From: thietani@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tapani Hietaniemi)
Subject: Re: Ellemann-Jensen on Macedonia
Organization: University of Helsinki
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:19:15 GMT


Leo J. Irakliotis (irakliot@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu) wrote:

> there are no ethnic minorities in Greece, according to US Dept of State
> and other respectable sources of information.


My Encyclopedia Britannica claims that according to 1961 census
2.8% of the population did not speak Greek as their mother tongue.

Most of them were Turkish,         179,895 (2,3%)
                  Macedonian slavs  41,017
                  Vlach             39,855
                  Albanian          22,736


The Albanians and Vlachs are claimed to be bilingual. But wat has
happened to the other minorities in 30 years?

with best regards
Tapani Hietaniemi
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12451 soc.culture.europe:11364
From: irakliot@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Leo J. Irakliotis)
Subject: Re: Rob West + Steve Anderson
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:47:52 GMT
Reply-To: irakliot@lance.colostate.edu
Organization: Engineering Network Services, Colorado State University

In article <1k7ge7INNo7g@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray) writes:

|> If you have evidence to that effect, post it.

Well, you mentioned first about a "macedonian" minority in Greece. Why don't
you post your facts first?


|> Only by the Greek gov't.  The rest of the world knows better.  In addition
|> to the Macedonian ethnic minority, there are also a significant number of
|> Turks living in Greece.

Not exactly. The US State Dept for example doesn't mention for a macedonian
or turkish minority in Greece. It does mention for a muslim greeks, religious
minority though.

-- 
Leo J Irakliotis                 irakliot@eva.lance.colostate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Electrical Engineering                      l.irakliotis@ieee.org
Colorado State U
(303) 491-2021                              Optical Computing Lab
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
From: jdd1@cec2.wustl.edu (James Dimos Dimarogonas)
Subject: Re: More on Macedonia (was Re: Greece reacts sharply to  remarks by
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:50:17 GMT

In article <C1GwvK.Crt@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger) writes:
>I don't have a copy of the Treaty of San Stefano handy at the moment,
>but will look it up when I get the chance.  However, nobody of Greek
>extraction on the Net has seriously responded to the claims that Greece
>is trying to blockade and starve the Macedonians into giving up that
>name.


NO,NO,NO! This is absurd!!!!  You await someone to come out on the net
and prove to you that there is no blockade.  We can answer to specifics
but how do you argue on some thing nonexistent, in otherwords  YOU 
would have to try to prove first the existence ox the blockade and THEN
I would try to answer.

>
Cheers

James Dimarogonas
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: More on Macedonia (was Re: Greece reacts sharply to remarks by
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:38:06 GMT

Re:
>
> a) Greece is only 1/4 of Skopjie's perimeter....
		           ^^^^^^^^^

I believe the country's name, and before that the name of the province
of Yugoslavia, is "Macedonia".  To avoid confusion on the net, please
use the name by which the country wishes to be known.

If you personally, or your countrymen, have a problem with the name
that a country chooses for itself, that's your problem, and yours alone.
Please don't try to involve us in your "naming convention" problems
by using code words in netnews postings.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Subject: Re: Linovambakoi
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 23:11:13 GMT

In article <C1BsBq.Hrv@unix.amherst.edu> eerginel@unix.amherst.edu (ERDEM ERGINEL) writes:
>
>In short, I don't believe that there was a great number of Greeks who
>converted to Islam and then became internal parts of the Turkish Cypriot
>society. The claim that they constitute "the majority of the Turkish
>CyhCypriots", as was claimed certain sources, especially the Greek Cypriot
>churc, is far from truth.


I cann't tell about Cyprus, but on Crete the 20% of muslims who were
exchanged in 1922 were *all* from ex-christian origin. No turkish
population had moved there. It is well documented in many history
books, as well as the reasons for their conversion (reaction to the
ruthless Venetian rule).


>There is also the flip side of the coin: There were many Turkish Cypriots
>who converted into Christianity and thus became Greeks. This mainly happened
>through the efforts of the church. The priests actively looked for isolated
>Turkish Cypriot villages, especially during the British era, and built 
>schools there and gave education to the local population.


If this is true, then this happened *only* during the british rule, thus
exact numbers should be available. Under the ottomans the conversion from
islam to anything else was equivalent to capital (death) punishment for
the people who promoted the conversions. And the registars were keeping
good accounts for both muslims and nonmuslims because of the implications
in the taxes collected and the conscripts.


Gr
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin)
Subject: Re: writings on mount 5-dactylos
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:48:42 GMT

In article <C1JMv4.9Gv@news.cso.uiuc.edu> msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis) writes:
>terziogl@ee.rochester.edu (Esin Terzioglu) writes:
>
>people who have never known northern Cyprus to realize that it is
>worth struggling for its liberation. 

WHO or WHAT ARE YOU LIBERATING FROM WHAT ????

The Turkish Cypriots mostly occupy the North not some aliens. 
We are people of Cyprus as much as anybody else is and the land
we now have may not be propotional to our population nor may we have originally
owned it all but we did own some of it and we did leave some lands in the
South as well on which you are sitting on so don't you go around talking
you are going to liberate the lands who totally belong to you because
they DON'T totally belong to you. 


Note: If any of you has numbers that show specifically and CORRECTLY 
      what percentage of North Cyprus(or south also for that matter)
      is/was owned by Turkish and Greek Cypriots, I would like to see them
      again. I know it has been posted on this net before.
>
>So, they only thing left to say is: GOOD JOB thanks for the service.

That service is as a result of the service you did to us, the Turkish
CYPRIOTS.

Besime Erin.

>
>-- 
>Michalis Syrimis
>University of Illinois
>Urbana-Champaign
>
From: terziogl@ee.rochester.edu (Esin Terzioglu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: writings on mount 5-dactylos
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:11:23 GMT
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science

In article <9301271428.AA11951@kocrsw06.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>Varnavas Lambrou asked about the writings on the Mount Pentadactylos
>and Besime Erin responded:
>
>> One of them is "Ne mutlu Turkum diyene!" which means: 
>> "How happy I am to be a Turk!" so its meaning is just that.
>
>Do you folks mean to say that high in the mountain Pentadactylos
>there's huge letters (reminiscnent of   H O L L Y W O O D   in
>Los Angeles) that write out these message(s)? How big are these
>writings? Distance they can be seen from? etc?

Yes. These writings are BIG!! There are also two flags. One Turkish and
one TRNC flag painted on the mountains. These flags were on CNN a couple
of years ago because they are the "biggest flags" in the world. I think one
of them is as large as 50 football fields (don't hold me for the size, I am
not quite sure but it is a ridiculously large number like 50 or so). As to 
the writings, they are next to the flags and in proportion to the size of
the flags. I think one can read the writings as long as he can see the 
mountains!!


>Just askin' (promise, no follow-ups)
>
>Spiros
>-- 
>Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
>Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
>GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]

Regards,
E.T.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12508 soc.culture.europe:11398 soc.history:10954
From: rika@informix.com (Rika Tsitsinia)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: Re: On Macedonia (was Re: Greece reacts sharply to remarks by
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:06:19 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

Mr J. Theodore Schuerzinger writes:

> I'm not saying
>that Greece has no right to use the name 'Macedonia', I'm saying that
>it doesn't have the *exclusive* right to do so.  Unfortunately, the
>Greek government seems to believe that it does have exclusive rights to
>the name 'Macedonia' (and so do most posters of Greek heritage).
>
>
>--Ted Schuerzinger

	Excuse me, but there is one country that wants to be called
    with the name Macedonia, its inhabitants Macedonians and their
    language Macedonian, and that country is not Greece. Moreover,
    that country accepts *no* qualifier to its name, like
    "Slavo-Macedonia" or such. No, they want to be called purely
    Macedonia.

	Now, *this* sounds to me like they want the exclusive rights
    to the name Macedonia and actually, *officially*.

	Moreover, this country insists on calling parts of Greece,
    Aegean Macedonia, and parts of Bulagaria, Pirin Macedonia.


P.S.:	I know that you were reacting to a greek poster that was
	saying something like "Macedonia is in Greece".
	Well, it is true. It all depends on which Macedonia we are
	talking about. It goes to the problem of who defined the
	bounds of Macedonia and why. The geographic bounds of
	Macedonia were changing considerably during the history
	of the name, but the ones that extend so far to the north,
	are a recent invention with specific purposes in mind.

	Even if you (reasonably) find this poster offensive though,
	you cannot compare it in magnitude to the official appro-
	priation of the name by a single country and its people.

	Georgios
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek