HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.*
Date: 18 Dec 1992 13:41:41 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Jess Anderson writes
>So here, in sum, is my current list:
>soc.motss.general (unmoderated)
>soc.motss.self (unmoderated)
>   Coming out, telling the family and friends, personal
>   witness and self-discovery.

I like the proposed split here---I'm just not so sure
about the name.  I think someone once suggested
using the word "support" for a subgroup split along
these lines.

>soc.motss.facts (moderated)
>soc.motss.advocacy (unmoderated)
>soc.motss.hiv (unmoderated)

I think having a moderated area, particularly for that
subtopic, is a really good idea.  I have mixed feelings about
an unmoderated HIV topic, only because it is a very sensitive issue
and it might drag in the phobes.

*  In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak *
*  because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I *
*  didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade *
* unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist... *
*Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.*
*  Rev. Martin Niemoeller     [Why to March on Washington in April]  *
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52240 soc.bi:16527
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: The MOW Platform (was Re: NOTICE - Details...)
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:48:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec14.154825.1332
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
>One last note: To participate in the march must surely be to
>endorse the platform. [...] If the platform has any moral force,
>it comes from the people who march under that platform. I disagree
>with the platform enough that I cannot lend my support to it in such a
>way. For this reason (and this reason alone), I won't be in the march.

Geez, Andy, you didn't seem to have any qualms when you voted Republican
last November.  What about _THEIR_ platform (remember the convention?)
Do I hear "double standard" here?  Or are you just holding the MOW
organizers to a higher moral standard than the totally discredited
Republican Party?

Changed your party registration yet?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: beezer@cc.utah.edu (BEEZER)
Subject: Re: Drooling over the "Europa, Europa" guy.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Salt Lick, UT
Date: 16 Dec 1992 00:55 MST  


I'll second that...
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: My *sigh* ad in the Washington Blade
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:15:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.151901.1@mscf.med.upenn.edu> smith@mscf.med.upenn.edu (Amelia T. Smith) writes:

>Even had one guy walk over and tell us how nice it was to see 
>"girls" in the bar ... <shrug> I thanked him. I thought he was 
>sincerely trying to make us feel welcome. So what if he called me 
>something I haven't been in (seems like) eons?

No kidding.  Amelia is to girl like a mac truck to a Tonka, like a
shark to a minnow, like....

Ry
ry@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Keywords: Gay food
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:35:10 GMT

In article <1go4ptINNa5i@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> Oh, I don't know about that, Rod.  I can't recall any
> recipes from _My Way of Life_ that might truly represent
> queer *couture*. I'm not even sure what queer couture
> is these days.  Are bicycle shorts still in? 
 
  You mean those Spandex things? Only if you have a 
basket to match. Of course I've lost track about when
high top Reebocks were in where you didn't tie them
and wore those stupid looking heavy socks with no
elastic in them.

>  Levis with
> faded crotches and the top button undone?  

  They're probably popular with the same set of
people but for different, apparent, reasons.

> Queer
> sophisticates always look divine in black leather jackets,
> but I'm not sure what food might represent a black leather
> jacket.  Anyone have any ideas?

  Beef of course. As in pectoralis giganticus. 
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jon@Turing.ORG (Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY))
Subject: Re: Have yourself a fairy little X-Mas (Re: It's That Time of Year ...)
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:10:41 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.103818.20455@spdcc.com> joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.011035.7098@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>In article <75502@apple.apple.COM> stevenso@Apple.COM (David Stevenson) writes:
>>>Speaking as someone who came out in the mid seventies, in San Francisco,
>>>quite a bit of innocence and exuberance had already been lost by then.
>>>In this light, you might find Larry Kramer's _Faggots_ educational as a
>>>contemporaneous reflection on that era (in New York City). [Hint:  even
>>>then, this book created a bit of a stir among the more politically correct
>>>gays.]
>>
>>The only thing good about that book was the cover jacket, in which
>>Larry Kramer sports a magnificant beard.  I wish he'd grow it back--
>>he looks like my aunt these days.
>>
>>I still have the dent in the plaster from when I threw the hardcover
>>against the wall in a fit of rage.  I thought it was a loathsome book.
>>Of course, that was 14-15 years ago (when did it come out?? 1978?).
>>Maybe if I read it today, by now having lost my innocence and exuberance
>>(it's somewhere around here--I've just misplaced it), it might seem old
>>hat (albeit dated.)  I don't know.
>
>I don't know. Maybe it was the scene with the underage gymnast with a
>12" cock having sex with his uncle that made you mad. It sure did me.
>I do think, however, that it was a timeless piece of writing. Or a
>timeless jacket cover. The secret is out on why anyone would buy the
>damn book.

Seems I can't walk into Lambda Rising with money in my pocket, and leave
with the money in tact. So, after spending over $100 (I went in to get
Men on Men 4, when I found they were sold out, I exacted my revenge by
purchasing a half dozen or so other books, that'll show 'em!) I went home
and found there was no space for more books on my shelves... I went though
and counted, So many books. And there, Kramers book. Faggots. *sigh*

I really really hate that book. Not for what it says, more for how it says
it. It's such a parody, such a utterly _BAD_ peice of writing... I forced
myself a few years ago to make it all the way through, to try to find out
what the author was saying. At the end, I realized it was just literary
flatulance. (much like this post, I'm sure some will feel drawn to point
out :)

Anyways, if you're looking to be offended based on content, try 'discontents'
a collection of 'new queer writing' There are some stories in there whose only
function, it seemed, was to be there, proving that you can say and write any
thing you damn well please. 

Of course, I wasn't offended, the writing is actually quite good, but boy oh
boy... parts of it read like the Jeffrey Dahmer Primer...

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: soc.foo
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:15:45 GMT

In article <18164@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>I'd also like to add my support for dumping the *motss* tag.
>
>motss as an acronym was coined so as not to offend the sensibilitys of 
>news administrators and other corporate types.
>I think its time to come out of the electronic closet and be more visible.
>Of course I prefer soc.queer, and understand that there are folks
>who have problems with that label, but ther doesn't seem to be another
>word that sums it up so neatly.

There's the rub... there isn't an existing word that covers
everyone except "queer", and a *lot* of us don't like queer.
"motss" confuses people, but it doesn't alienate or offend them.

On the other hand, newbies could have a lot of trouble finding
this group if they don't know enough to go through the
news.announce.newusers listings.

I'd like to suggest that we use "soc.gay", and that we declare by
group fiat that "gay" covers all of us. Before you flame: I'm a
bisexual, so I've been told that "gay" doesn't cover me. But it's
still fairly inclusive, and we can make it more so.

Of course, inertia votes for soc.motss, and inertia has a lot of
clout.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"SILENCE = QUIET"
                --Girljock Magazine
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Pittsburg, Pa
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:42:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47470
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Dec17.212913.27020@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) describes what he claims is
>the official cabal application.  There must be a Reason that I
>repeatedly construed deatil #3:
> >3. It must bear a notary seal (raised fonts on CRT's is soooo tricky).
>as
>"an otary seal."
>
>Mustn't there?

Actually, just like the candy bar you get for filling out a Sears
charge account application, the soc.motss.cabal.recruitment.division
periodically gives out these special seals to certain people who
correctly fill out the application.  You could be the next lucky
applicant!

However, if you manage to affix an otary seal to your application,
a special followup interview will be scheduled by one of our
many special interest groups.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: Porno for women vs. Women's porno
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:56:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.111117.3213@reed.edu>
     nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>I actually read some erotica written and posted to the net that was
>pretty good - both reasonably well written and it made me horny. The
>weird thing was that it was (more or less) het porn. I found that I
>identified with the woman who was being ravished.

   *Giggle*  Reminds me of a questionnaire on alt.sex I filled out once
as a joke.  One of the questions was "What is your favorite _couple_ in
pornography to watch, and why?"  My answer was:

   Tom Byron and Traci Lords.
   'Cause I can't figure out which one I envy more!

            Elf !!!
--
Elf Sternberg.   (elf@halcyon.com)
Due to a bureaucratic error, you are offered the job of county coroner.
You seriously consider accepting the job because it offers:          __
A. Unclaimed watches and wedding rings.                              \/
B. Gold fillings and bridges.
C. Free blood.
D. A constantly changing array of new friends who aren't at all stuffy
   about what happens to their genitalia.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Keywords: Gay food 
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:03:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.183021.405@cbfsb.cb.att.com> rcrice@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (roger.w.crice) writes:
>When I first heard about this, I thought to myself What
>sort of food could I share with my coworkers that would
>represent *my* culture?  

Too bad you're not a lesbian, or else you'd be able to
bring in some sort of disgustingly texture-free grey
casserole made of lentils, potatos, and rice in an
earthenware container.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Indications of homosexuality (was Re: How to tell if your son is gay)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:22:43 GMT

aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:

>I'm now content to just let it hang naturally.
>Shampoo every morning, and condition once a week, only if absolutely
>necessary.  Let dry.  No artificial goop.  Voila.  Hair.

Sigh...

(Sim's home! Yay!)

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico

      You're like one of those... 'Cabbage Patch' creatures...
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.sex.bondage
From: csc4213@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Uncle Remus)
Subject: Re: Smokey and the Bandit
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:31:14 GMT


"When I get home, I'm gonna punch your mama in the mouth!" - Sounds like a 
confession to me :-)

Josh Guttman

-- 

Uncle_Remus - 404-355-0001   "Yeah, I've heard of Internet" - GSU User Services
       "I tried safe sex once, but I couldn't remember the combination" - Me
  "If you're gonna rock the boat, make sure you know who owns the ship" - Me
csc4213@gsusgi2.gsu.edu, Uncle_Remus, The Remulater, Josh, Guttman, Anton_Levey
From: pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads: women posting and "cures" and its spinoffs)
Date: 11 Dec 1992 19:44:19 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniblab.asd.sgi.com

>In article <Bz0vwp.6E3@queernet.org> rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>>In article <mattm-081292105439@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew
>>Melmon) writes:
>>|> I might be better disposed to Castro Street were it not *FUCKING*
>>|> *IMPOSSIBLE* to park within eight blocks...  Eight *VERTICAL* blocks.
>
>>Park in Daly City and take BART, as nature intended.
>

Yeah, do that!
More spots for me!

I must be driving under some kind of umbrella made by the parking goddess
herself or something.

I lived in New York City (Chelsea) for three years and I've lived in
the heart of the Castro for two.  I've been parking on the street the whole 
time and it's never been a problem.  In both places, I could usually park in
under 5 minutes, and in the most rare and extreme cases it's taken 20 minutes.
Once, in New York, it took a half hour.

Maybe if you all just calm down you'll have an easier time of it.
The roads can sense your fear.


pauli.
From: klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Keywords: Gay food
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:08:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Dec17.210854.18532
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <1992Dec16.190330.21999@tc.cornell.edu>
shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes: 
>In article <1992Dec16.183021.405@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
rcrice@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (roger.w.crice) writes: 
>>When I first heard about this, I thought to myself What
>>sort of food could I share with my coworkers that would
>>represent *my* culture?  
>
>Too bad you're not a lesbian, or else you'd be able to
>bring in some sort of disgustingly texture-free grey
>casserole made of lentils, potatos, and rice in an
>earthenware container.

Roger - I think it's too bad you're not a lesbian, too, but have different
suggestions than Melinda.  Following are brief descriptions of some of the
popular dishes from several years of Lesbian Erotic Hors D'oeuvres
Parties.  (Just wanted folks to know that not all of us earthy-crunchy
types eat only casseroles like the one Melinda describes!)  Don't suppose
these'd be appropriate for an office party, though... 

Cunt Caviar (cream cheese molded anatomically and covered with red and
black caviar -- the *perfect* blend of salty and creamy, and my favorite
creation)

Cheese Cunts (thinly sliced cheese, such as havarti, stamped with my
rubber stamp in purple food dye ink -- imagine a whole plateful!)

Salmon Dip Breasts (with cherry tomatoes for nipples)

Love & Blood II, the Safer Sex Version (baked potatoes molded anatomically
and surrounded by borscht, with sour cream dolloped appropriately)

Chocolate Fondue (with the usual fruits, and specially shaped peppermint
creams)

The list goes on and includes eXotic foods as well, but the photos are at
home and I can't remember offhand everything that's been brought over the
years.  Smoked seafood is always popular, as is guacamole, persimmons and
other unusual fruits, anything that requires dipping and licking...

- Gretchen (a health food kind of gal who doesn't scrimp on style, flavor
or texture -- feeling rather hungry and hot right now...)

P.S.  Melinda, if you're going to be in the Portland area in February, you
are hereby invited to the next party. 

P.P.S.  The UNIX spell checker continues to amaze me...
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Love is like the Universe, No reason to exist, But here it is!"
			     - Linda Waterfall, "Love Out of Nowhere"
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Remakes of Songs from Youth (was Re: Gay Baby Saints)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 08:36:27 GMT

I can't describe the feeling I got when I heard Blondie's 'Rapture'
mixed into our local Top 40 station (I know, I know, but all the
other local stations are either country, oldies, lite, or news)'s
'Hot Mix' program. I remember me and my sister listening to it as
the B-side to 'The Tide is High' on our little kiddie record player.
The segment of the program ended, and the DJ talked about the song
as a 'classic'. Then he said that the song was from 1981! That's 11
years ago, and I remember it. Very odd.

(another 'I'm aging, aren't I?' anecdote: I'm reading 'Hometowns; Gay
Men Write about Where They Belong', which has been pretty Iowa School
of Writing, but then I got to a story by Stephen Saylor about growing
up in Amethyst TX, and he got me to feeling so *nostalgic*! I thought
you didn't start getting that feeling until you were thirtysomething.
I don't know how I'll be able to bear it by then if it hurts so much
now.)

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Kiss me, I'm an aphrodisiac!

		...and may all your Yuletides be trite.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ne.motss
From: buckmr@vccnw06.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Ken Reeves, first black, openly gay mayor in the US
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:56:45 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <t=g21t+@rpi.edu> buckmr@vccsouth15.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>>About Ken Reeves---is he single? :-)
>>Any pictures for the motss archives?
>>Height of 6' 1" sounds like a good start...

>He's really gorgeous, IMO.  I don't know if he has a lover.
>No photos handy, unfortunately.  Tall, trim, bearded, glasses.

Is that why you voted for him, eh? :-)

Anyway, there ARE pictures of Mr. Reeves in _IN_ the Northeastern gay and 
lesbian bar-rag.


-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ***Clinton-Gore 92!***
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"The love that dared not speak its name now won't shut up!" -Rev. Jerry Falwell
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:18:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: hp-col.1gtbn1INN540
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

john@zygot.ati.com (John Higdon) writes:
> I can state unequivocally that there are many more sins of much greater
> concern than homosexuality with which the churches should concern
> themselves. The sin of condemnation of homosexuals is one of them.

Absolutely true.  

> Is it not amusing that a minister will pound his fist on the pulpit
> condemning homosexuality to a congregation consisting of liars,
> adulterers, blasphemers, and stealers (e.g. tax cheats)? Except as a
> mention in the old testiment and in some of Paul's rantings in the new
> testiment, the sin of homosexuality gets scarcely a mention. 

Well, I wouldn't go that far; it may not get mentioned constantly, but 
it is more than scarcely mentioned.  

> And since this country has a preoccupation over matters sexual, gay people
> make the perfect target. Most of the faithful seem to feel that what goes
> on in the bedroom is far more important than what goes on in the
> boardroom. What you do during the day is insignificant. You may lie,
> cheat, and steal in your work, but if you go home and do the "wrong"
> things in the privacy of your home, you go to hell.

This is an extreme exaggeration.  There may be a minority who you could 
find to fit that bill, but it is hardly representative of the church-going 
population as a whole.  When you brand "most of the faithful" like this, 
you are not only doing them a disservice, you are also making people not 
trust you, as well as doing to your (percieved) enemy what you claim they 
do to you; *generalize*. 

Walter
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:24:19 GMT


In article <1g8139INNm2j@hp-col.col.hp.com>, smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

|> Or maybe they would rather not have such a subject such as sodomy discussed with
|> first graders at all?  That it should be left 1) till they are older and know what
|> it means, and 2) to the parents, and not the school system. 

When discussions of heterosexual families are referred
to as "discussions of penile/vaginal intercourse" I will
accept discussions of same-sex families being referred to
as "discussions of sodomy".

You've got some pretty heavy biases, Walter, and they're
starting to show.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
From: akbar@cs.mcgill.ca (Alain BOUCHARD)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Xmas is murder...  NOT!
Date: 13 Dec 92 09:21:25 GMT
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada

In article <1992Dec9.230707.14665@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM 
(Rod Williams) writes:
>> roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
>>Get a live tree, keep it there, maybe dress it up for Christmas.
>>All this tree-killing in winter gets me down.
>
>There's another argument -- that Xmas trees are grown as
>a crop precisely for that purpose, and cutting 'em down
>is morally no different from picking broccoli...

I must totally agree, and it is a significant industry.  Some researchers are
actively working on genetic manipulation to get fast growing species for that
purpose.  My favourite evergreen for Xmas is the balsam fir because it smells
so great.  Be carefull while shopping for trees that they don't pass you a 
black spruce instead.  They look almost the same, but balsam fir will last
much longer when watered properly.  My record is Easter, but blame it on 
lazyness.  We have an expression for being tricked or fooled: "se faire 
passer un sapin".

I know some Cris indians on the Quebec North Shore who turned to tree 
cultivation because their traditional lifestyle of fur trapping and trade 
were destroyed by Greenpeace.  Don't get me wrong, GP does some great stuff,
but we all know what fanatism can lead to.

Alain