From: mmarx@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Matthew Marx)
Subject: Re: Anti-religious fanatics (Was Re: School Choice )
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:56:14 GMT

In <1992Sep3.135001.4987@ornl.gov> de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill) writes:


>In article <1992Sep2.195731.4732@math.okstate.edu>, russ@math.okstate.edu (Horatio "Random" Hellpop) writes:
>>
>>*I* understood what he meant.  There is no teaching of Christ which reads
>>"go kill those weird easterners who bathe".  Quite the opposite.

>So what?  In theory, Christianity is safe, but in *practice* much blood has
>been and will continue to be shed in the name of Christ.

Whoooooooa, horsie! To speak of "Christianity" as one entity is
problematic, there being several thousand different Christian
denominations in the United States alone. To attribute to every one of
them by attributing to Christians *in general* (as you have done)
guilt for the deeds of a small minority of those who stand under the
Christian umbrella breeds not only ignorance, but the intolerance you
so self-righteously denounce.

>>That they did these things falsely in the name of Christianity does not
>>require me to accept that they did it as Christians.

>Deny it all you want, but that won't stop the next holy war from happening.

If it does, hopefully you'll take the time to look at who exactly is
responsible and recognize that they themselves are *not* doing what
they have committed to, rather than throwing all Christians into a
black kettle and turning up the heat.

>>>>Most (but not all) Christians don't dump on those that don't share their
>>>>beliefs.
>>
>>>I don't know about that.
>>
>>I do.  'Hate the sin, but not the sinner.'

>`A witty saying proves nothing.' (Voltaire)  Again, there's a *big* difference
>between what Christianity teaches and how it's applied by its practitioners. 
>And I don't know of any big movement in the organized Christian religions to
>identify non-Christian practices common among their members.  "Love thy
>neighbor."  Unless he's gay, or beats his wife, or takes drugs, or isn't
>Christian, or doesn't love you back, or...  "Do unto others..."  unless you
>can get away with it.

A witty paragraph doesn't prove anything, either. Look at what you
wrote. You once again generalize to *all* of Christianity, failing to
recognize differences not only in what is taught by individual
Christian churches, but in the way the different members react to
that. Such sweeping generalizations. Please. Your last sentence
reveals your ignorance about the "witty statement" you criticized.

>>Horse puckey.  False adherents have a way of trying to find justifications
>>for their deeds which simply do not exist.

>Huh?  What's that got to do with the leap of faith, suspension of disbelief,
>and subjugation of will required to be a Christian?

Once again, you reveal your ignorance. Spend a decent amount of time
learning Christ's teachings and you'll get a clue. 

>>If we were all judged by the worst of our number, where would any of us be?

>We should be judged individually only when we act as individuals.  When we act
>as members of a group, it's reasonable that we be judged as a group.  If a
>group has "a few bad apples", it's the group's responsibility to throw them
>out.  When a group consistently produces bad apples, it seems likely that the
>practices/beliefs of the group are responsible.

Many churches (including mine) do excommunicate many of those "bad
apples" -- if they're not willing to change their ways and try to be
better. 

>It follows, then, that atheists are not accountable as a group since they
>don't act as a group--they're merely a set of individuals with a common trait.
>You can't blame them for the ills of any particular atheist any more than you
>can blame redheads for any deed performed by a redhead.

But your previous paragraph about beliefs playing a large role in
determining behavior is a shoe atheists can wear, as well.
-- 
Matt Marx     mmarx@csli.stanford.edu           
So many newsgroups, so little time...

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