From: berger@atropa (Mike Berger)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,alt.cd-rom,misc.consumers
Subject: Re: FRAUD ALERT - CD-ROM vendor
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:49:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvvGIo.Dpz
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

jeg7e@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jon Gefaell) writes:
>I don't understand it... you gave a substantial amount of money to a stranger
>in return for their promise they would quickly ship you a product they didn't
>have at the time?
****
As you said, you don't understand.  This was a COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE, not
a flea-market exhibitor.  You depend on the good faith of ANY store to
deliver the merchandise that was promised.  A lot of stores require a
deposit for special-order or specially priced merchandise.

>On the other hand, the 'Smart Shopper' would;

>1.) Purchase via Credit card.
>	You can return ANYTHING within 30 days and pay nothing. All you need
>	do is call your credit card company, indicate that you are 'unsatisfied'
>	with your purchase. Then ship the offending item back to the vendor, get
>	a shipping receipt (insure the package optionaly, I send it back COD)
>	and mail a copy of the purchase and return shipping receipt, VOILA!
*----
I don't think this is correct.  First, the federal laws apparently cover
you if you purchase mail order from somebody over 150 miles away.  I don't
believe you are guaranteed the same protection under other circumstances.
As for the credit card giving you special 30 day return privileges, that
is absolutely incorrect.  You are covered if you don't get the merchandise
that was promised, or if it was somehow defective and the store refused
to satisfy you.  But there's no automatic right to return anything for
full credit.

>	Your account is credited the FULL amount of purchase.
*----
What world do you live in?  This might happen IF you dispute the
charge and IF the credit card company decides in your favor.  This
does not always happen.  And credit card companies recognize the
right to charge a restocking fee if you return the merchandise
for reasons other than misrepresentation or defects.

>	This is federal law. This is why direct marketing (mail order) ALWAYS
>	offers '30 days satisfaction guarantee!' It's Federal Credit Law. Might
>	as well offer it as a feature. Some offer an additional 30 days, but
>	impose restocking fees during this period.
*----
30-day satisfaction (that the product performs to specifications) is not
the same as a 30-day absolute return policy.  Your interpretation of 
the law doesn't agree with my credit card provider's interpretation.

>Common sense will avoid these sad stories as we've read here. Protect
>your rights!
*----
I didn't see any lack of common sense in what D'Armond did.  Keep in
mind that many computer suppliers operate on a very tight margin, and
keep costs down by accepting personal checks, while charging 3%-5%
overhead on credit card purchases.  This was a commercial exhibitor 
that had already developed something of a (good) reputation.  To me,
it proves that no matter how much common sense you use, you can
still get ripped off.
--
	Mike Berger
	Department of Statistics, University of Illinois
	AT&TNET     217-244-6067
	Internet    berger@atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
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