HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: Re: Boat Show
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:02:17 GMT

In article <1jplb4INN5pg@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.RLW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Lee Wood, 3-6284) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.183520.35402@watson.ibm.com>,
>walter@watson.ibm.com (Walter Wilson) writes:
>>
>>Kenedy sailed, Bush powered....
>>
>
>So...does that mean that bassboats will be "in" now?
>
>


"Bubba Boats", get your terminology straight. Bubba magazine's first
issue was recently published in NYC (not published by "Bubba's"). The
name is supposedly taken from a Clinton quote made during a radio call in
show.


The Northeast will be having its fun for a few years...

barry

2 cents

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lastline
From: len@persephone.think.com (Leonard Franco)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Give me some Ideas!
Date: 25 Jan 93 12:34:49
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: alt
NNTP-Posting-Host: persephone.think.com
In-reply-to: IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU's message of 23 Jan 93 02:50:22 GMT


All the nautical names are already in use :-).
I've always thought a boat name should relate
to something conveying a calm, tranquil feeling
so the name of my next next sailboat will be 
GUINAN- a la Star Trek, TNG. so don't use
that :->.


Len
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: meyer@dbsun.uucp (Don Meyer)
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Keywords: PWC, fun
Organization: BioMerieux-Vitek, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:50:27 GMT

So how have the Sea-Doos been reliability-wise?  I'm contemplating a
purchase and would really enjoy hearing some firsthand anecdotes.

I agree that PWCs have a bad reputation.  But then, so do high-end
powerboaters, weekend powerboaters, etc.  In all cases it comes down to
a few jerks giving the entire class a bad reputation.  When I ride a PWC
I am _very_ careful of how close I get to other craft, where they are
going, etc.

Mabye the sailboaters are more friendly to PWCs because both typically
have to worry about being run over by the guys in the 35' triple-engined
speed boats! :-) :-) :-)
Or perhaps it's just because, at least on most smaller inland lakes,
sailboats and PWCs are a minority compared to the 21' and up powerboats?

The PWC market is really heating up, almost _too_ many choices!
Sigh, *how* many more months until summer???

Don
-- 
" 'Cause you see son, it's one of my responsibilities as a parent to wean
you from life's joy and prepare you for the relentless heartache that is
adulthood." -- Earl Sinclair to Robbie
    =========================================================
From: bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
Date: 22 Jan 93 22:44:36 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.


This question seems to come up often. I would prefer the group not be
split.

There are often enough information of mutual interest: sticker fees,
coast guard information, navigation, engine maintenance...

I'm sorry there's an occasional impolitic statement made by a sailor.
I can pretty easily ignore those made by a power boater. 

If we can't manage to cooperate in an electronic newsgroup, how can we
hope to do it on the water?
From: fjh@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Fred J Helmstetter)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Need info on bareboat charters in Florida
Date: 28 Jan 1993 16:44:01 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.30
Originator: fjh@convex.csd.uwm.edu


I guess the title says it all...  Would anyone be willing to recommend 
(preferably based on personal experience) charter companies based in
Florida ?  I'm looking for a reasonable price on a solid 30-35' crusing
boat for less than a week in May or June.   Thanks. 

Fred J. Helmstetter
fjh@convex.csd.uwm.edu
-- 

fjh@convex.csd.uwm.edu 
(414) 229-4903 
-----------------------
Xref: sparky rec.boats:9453 nj.misc:413
From: brucem@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com (Bruce Maxwell)
Newsgroups: rec.boats,nj.misc
Subject: Boat for sale
Keywords: Boat Sale
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:23:37 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Computer ,Oceanport NJ


				FOR SALE

1987 24' 241 Four Winns Liberator

460ci, 340HP King Cobra, SS prop, C.G. Package, Halon system,
Docking Lights, am/fm cassette stereo,Porti Poti, Trim Tabs,     
Wet Bar,Sleeps 2, Excellent condition, Well Maintained ...

Make Reasonable offer on boat and will also include a Lifetime
Ownership Timeshare Oceanfront Condominium located in Pompano Beach, Fla
with 1 bedroom,2 baths, kitchen, dining room,Sleeps 4, RCI membership, 
Red Time.

	Call: Tom (908)840-6708 (home)



Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Daggerboard design question
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:20:28 GMT

I was hoping to tap into the net wisdom for help in designing
a daggerboard for my sailing dinghy.
 
Background:
 
Currently, the daggerboard measures about 10" front to back
at hull level (tapering to about 7" at the bottom), extends
about 35" below the hull, and sits in a daggerboard well that
measures about 16" front to back.   Thus the dinghy could easily
accomodate a daggerboard about 60% bigger front to back.
 
The family insists on vacationing in Ocean City, New Jersey
each summer, and a 36" draft is a bit too much for much of the
adjacent Great Egg Harbor bay; I end up sailing with the
board about half way up most of the time.  Also, I tend to
sail only in rather light winds--maybe up to 10 knots; anything
more than that and I am on a sailboard (at least in the summer.)
 
My woodworking skills are such that making and shaping a 20 ply
wooden blank to the desired shape should be no problem.  I would
just rather not have to make half a dozen different boards and
resort to on-the-water experimentation.
 
Questions:
 
1.  If there were no limitation on draft, what would the ideal
board for light winds look like?  (length, taper, width, foil?)
 
2.  Given that I would like to reduce the draft by at least 12",
what sort of compromises am I making in performance?
 
..Richard E+17 (eplus17@uiuc.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Sail salvage w/power (brainstorm)
From: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Date: 26 Jan 93 10:21:28 MDT
Reply-To: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Distribution: na
Organization: Utah State University


|>>We attempted to turn and drag her into deeper water where she could be
|>>righted using my 29' Criss with twin 350's but couldn' budge her. 

You might do better if you used a LARGE anchor and a winch.  I don't think
a stationary boat generates all that much thrust, what with cavitation and
the engines being low on the power curve.  The again you might give yourself
about 100' of slack and take a run at it.  :^)
--
Hal Lynch

	US Mail:  Utah State University
	          Office of Computer Services
	          Logan, Utah 84322-4410
	Internet: Hal@cache.declab.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
Subject: Re: Two-day courses offered by North Sail
Keywords: Is it worth it?
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:27:59 GMT

tsai@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Jeffrey C. Tsai) writes:

>In this couple months' Crusing World magazine, North Sail has
>ad. about their two-day classes on sail handling for $140.
>I am one like to learn by doing instead of listing/reading,
>but the price is not too bad if it is rated "EXCELLENT!".

The North Smart Course and Fast Course are excellent and well worth
the cost. OTOH, sailhandling is a bit more hands-on than reasoning out
the best side of the course ....

dhs     spencer@panix.com
From: karina@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Karina Haavik)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
Date: 24 Jan 93 07:55:11 GMT

Come oh, guys!  I go away for one day and when I come back there are 75 new
messages, at least half of which are about whether to split the newsgroup???

And over what - a joke, that someone ignored the smiley on.

I firmly believe that we should not split the group, because we need to be a 
community and because we don't have nearly enough traffic.

And if some jet skier wants to ask me why my vehicle is slow and leaky and 
points out that my only hope is to teach it plane COMPLETELY out of the water,
;-)     then I'll laugh.



--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karina Haavik   ******  karina@seas.upenn.edu  ***  Comet #2970
It looks like a boat.   It leaks like a boat.       It must be a boat.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bwb1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BRENT W. BENSON)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Daggerboard design question
Date: 28 Jan 93 14:43:34 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1k6o01INNqjf@usenet.pa.dec.com>, hagerman@serve.shr.dec.com (Doug Ha
german) writes:
>
>In article <BOWERS.93Jan26115012@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov>, bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.g
ov (Al Bowers) writes:
>
>|>
>|>Think of it this way.  The induced drag (drag due to load or to lift
>|>With zero load on the rudder, we
>|>get zero units of rudder drag and a total of 1 unit total drag.  Now
>|>lets say we take half the load on the rudder (leaving half on the
>|>daggerboard).  So now we get 1/4 unit drag on the dagger (1/2 times
>|>1/2) and 1/4 unit of drag on the rudder (ditto).  Total drag is now
>|>1/2 (1/4 + 1/4).  So by loading up the rudder we got half the total
>|>drag!
>
>This sounds plausible, but in a fairly heavy wind where
>say 100 pounds of leeway force is being prevented by the foils, my Laser
>rudder would, if trimmed using these rules, support a load of around
>40 pounds.  Even taking into
>consideration the considerable leverage of the tiller this doesn't
>sound like the right trim since I would feel something like say 5 pounds
>of force at the hiking stick.  Is the implication here that most boats
>are incorrectly set up to give insufficient weather helm (i.e. too much
>of leeway force taken by centerboard?)
>
>Doug.
>
The analysis of Bowers is similar to that published by Sutcliffe in vol 13 of
the Ancient Interface series, 1974.  Sutcliffe concludes that the ratio of the
rudder to centerboard sideforce coefficients should equal the ratio of their
aspect ratios, and that this occurs on most centerboard boats when the tiller
is within 2deg of centerline.  The basic conclusion is that for a well
designed boat, you should tune it with mast rake, etc to give "weather helm"
in the sense that there is significant force on the tiller to windward,  but
that this should occur when the tiller is within 2 degrees of centered.  Note
that even when the tiller is centered, the rudder still has the same angle of
attack as the centerboard (the leeway angle) and so generates lift to
windward.  This is slightly corrected by the downwash of the centerboard at
the position of the rudder, but on most centerboard boats the rudder is aft of
 this disturbance.
From: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Full Batten Main - Problem
Date: 27 Jan 1993 01:41:42 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: sextant

In article 20015@mindlink.bc.ca, Bill_Gardner@mindlink.bc.ca (Bill Gardner) writes:
> I have a C&C 30 1987 with a full Batten Main.  The sail works terrifically
> when underway.  Getting it up and down is not so good.  

Very common problem.  I've solved it with little rollerskates 
made by Ruttgerson and distributed by Harken, $16 each.  Your 
sailmaker should be able to fix this for you; if not, another 
one can.  Notwithstanding, the fullbat mains go up and down 
best if the boat is held dead into the wind, especially with lazyjacks.  

BILL



Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mike@erix.ericsson.se (Mike Williams)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Nntp-Posting-User: mike
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:52:52 GMT

In article <1k376qINNb40@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:
|> In fact, I think that all wheel-steered boats should have a tiller. I have
|> one on Sarah, and fortunately the wheel is far enough fwd in the cockpit that
|> it can actually be used. The kind of emergency tiller that you have to 
|> rig "sideways" to make it avoid the wheel is just loony (and probably
|> unsafe). Incidentally, I do use the tiller now and then, even when the
|> wheel steering is working.

I was sailing a borrowed wheel-steered B-31 in the heavily trafficked
straights between Sweden in Denmark last spring when the wire snapped
(yes I should have checked it before starting out).  There was a
"spare" tiny tiller which fitted onto the "top" of the rudder inside
the stern locker and it was possible go on sailing and get back home.

After this happened, my views about wheel-steering changed completely
and my own tiller steered boat no longer seems so old fashioned!

---Mike
From: terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: split rec.boats??
Keywords: split
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 06:14:08 EST
Reply-To: terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen)
Distribution: world
Organization: G.T.M. Incorporated, Kingston, ON (613) 546-3078
Content-Type: text

legacy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (wayne.m.simpson) writes:

> In article <wwalker-220193152424@bwalker.qualcomm.com> wwalker@qualcomm.com (
> >And if we do split, well, lemme see, I want to subscribe to
> >rec.boats.sail.cruising, rec.boats.sail.daysailing, rec.boats.sail.racing,
> >rec.boats.power.small, and rec.boats.power.big (maybe), but I'll skip
> >rec.boats.power.fishing, rec.boats.power.pwc,
> >rec.boats.power.tankers.aground, rec.boats.user-fee, and probably
> >rec.boats.sail.want-to-crew.  :-)
> >
> >Oops.  I forgot about rec.boats.sail.ice (just for you, John) and
> >rec.boats.sail.c27 (for Wayne). :-)
> 
>    We already have a mailing list for Catalina 27's (and other Catalina
> sailboats), but thanks for thinking of me just the same. :-)
> 
> Wayne Simpson (no fancy .sig this time)
> 
> 
and what about rec.sail.nonsuch (they already have a roster on who owns
what boat and have regular gatherings at different ports all over the
world.) I like the the splitting for one reason only. It would give the
chance to talk about sail.racing in the right newsfeed and not get a
a pile of newsfeeds about oil tankers. Oh by the way I am a power boat
person but love to sail.race.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terry A. Gerritsen         |  G.T.M. Incorporated              (613) 384 0162
Transportation Consultant  |  Kingston, Ontario           Fax: (613) 389 4594
Air/Rail/Road         "Transportation is our business"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: From Avon to Zodiac
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:37:58 GMT
Reply-To: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: nonsuch.ebay.sun.com

In article 315@smoke.cs.toronto.edu, enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) writes:
> spady@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robyn Spady) writes:
> 
> >The Seven Seas Crusing Association puts out a publication on cruising 
> >equipment . . . The most recent one (available for about $10) identifies Avon
> >inflatables as being one of the most highly rated inflatables and ranks the'
> >Zodiac as being one of the lowest rated.
> 
> Do you remember why?  Also, what is the title of this publication?  Do you
> have an address from which it may be ordered?
> 
> I would also be interested in hearing about any other "buyer's guide" type
> publications for inflatable boats.  Please post if you know of any.
> 
> Robert Enenkel


Last two issues of Practical Sailor did a comparison of about a dozen inflatable
boats.  You might want to check it out.

Jeff Huntington
From: graziano@ravel.udel.edu (Lisa Marie Graziano)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: splitting rec.boats?
Date: 23 Jan 93 20:13:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Delaware

And yet another opinion....  I am strictly a sail/rowboat person, and
would love to see a rec.boats.sail group.  I agree with many of the
opinions others have expressed.  The recent thread on oil tankers,
however, was quite interesting and I was glad to see it discussed.  The
second However (however) is that this newsgroup is simply too large for me
to keep up with.  The 3 others I follow are much, much smaller and I can
just about read everything.  Rec.boats is kinda overwhelming sometimes,
and I end up missing most of what I'd like to read along with what I
_don't_ want to read.  So, despite interesting non-sailboat articles, I'm
in favor of a split.  For what its worth.
Lisa
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: scoyle@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Scott Coyle)
Subject: Differences in Stainless Steel
Reply-To: scoyle@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Followup-To: scoyle@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:33:08 GMT

Ok, I'm sure this is common knowledge for most of you..  Could somebody
please explain the difference between 302, 304, 316, 18-8, etc. 
stainless steel.. I'm guessing hardness / brittleness is probably the
big factor.. 

Scott Coyle - scoyle@ncsa.uiuc.edu


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: schwartz@spk.hp.com (Dave J. Schwartz)
Subject: Martec Prop for sale
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:39:41 GMT

FOR SALE: MARTEC 12 x 12 folding prop in excellant condition. $150
	Home phone: (509)487-7718


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     /        |  Dave Schwartz - Hewlett Packard, Spokane Division
    /__  __   |                  P.O. Box 2500
   /  / /  /  |                  Spokane, WA. 99220-2500
  /  / /__/   |  
      /       |  Internet: schwartz@hpspkla.spk.hp.com
     /        |     Phone: (509)921-3648
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Jet Skis (now sailboards)
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:36:28 GMT
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

In article <1k42j1INNgb@transfer.stratus.com> kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner) writes:
>>
>>Scott, If you add pontoon boats and sailboards you would be duplicating
>>my list.  It's the people -- not the toys!  There are plenty of safe
>
>One real big problem with these kind of stuff (jet-skis, sailboards,
>etc) is that people lend one to a friend at the beach or where-ever
>and say "Try this, it's cool."  The person then using the craft likely
>has no knowledge of boat operation, right-of-way rules, what to do if

I have to take exception to the comments about sailboards. I am not disputing
that a sailboarder can not be annoying to other water users. However, if someone
comes flying by you and jumps your wake on a sailboard, it is not because
his buddy has loaned out his sailboard with the words 'Try this, its fun!'.

Sailboarders take years of dedicated practice and effort to get to the skill]
level wher they can terrorize other water users, so however annoying they may be,
they are not incompetent to operate their craft.

A beginner is more likely to be struggling in the water or slowly making his way
downwing at 5 mph.

Unfortunaely with jet skis, you really can just hop on and go. This is the reason
they apear so inconsiderate. Its mostly lack of experience and real understanding
of boating and seamanship skills. (maybe that should read seapersonship :-))

Jim Munro



Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mgm@metaflow.com (Gary A. Gibson)
Subject: Re: Origin of Starboard (was Wheel steering on small boats)
Organization: Metaflow Technologies Inc.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:40:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.101222.5385@alcatel.no>, vatne@alcatel.no (Lars Vatne) writes:
|> And. as y'all know, the steering oar used by the vikings was called
|> "styri", and was the origin of "starboard" (or "styrbord" in Norwegian). 
|> The oar is of course mounted on starboard, check out the vikingships in
|> Bygdoy, Oslo, Norway the next time you're around, and we can go for a 
|> sail afterwards (my boat's just five minutes down the road from there).
|> -- 
|> Lars Vatne                     Phone  : +47 22 63 76 51    
|> Engineering Division           Fax    : +47 22 63 84 97  
|> Alcatel Telecom Norway AS      e-mail : lars.vatne@alcatel.no
|> 

Now that we know the *real* origin of starboard, what is the
origin of port ?



       _                       Gary Gibson
       |_                       PRYORITY I
       | \                 Metaflow Technologies, Inc.
       |__\                4250 Executive Square, Suite 300
       /___\_____          La Jolla, CA 92037
  ____/         /          Voice:  (619) 452-6608 x231
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~        FAX:    (619) 452-0401
E-mail: mgm@metaflow.com

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: linda@wendy.net.com (Linda Hill)
Subject: Liveaboard rent question
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:52:29 GMT

I don't know how many liveaboards there are reading this group, but
something has come up in our marina that I would like get some feedback on.

A notice was posted regarding a .50/foot increase in the liveaboard
rate (the notice was addressed to liveaboard tenants only), which in
our marina is a rate in addition to the regular slip fee.  Okay fine,
no problem.  I've been hearing of rate increases for liveaboards in
other San Francisco Bay Area marinas.  People are complaining about
the unfairness of an increase aimed only at liveaboards, but I'm
willing to look at it purely from a rent standpoint and take it as a
rent increase that I would probably have to suffer if I lived in an
appartment.

The kicker is what follows.  It doesn't apply to my husband and I, but I
am still incensed by what it implies.  Our current lease states that no
one under 16 is allowed to be a liveaboard tenant.  The notice just posted
states that two people will be allowed to liveaboard at the per foot rate.
For every person over the two allowed, there will be an additional fee of
$200.00 per person per month.  Rumor has it that the under 16 rule was
legally unenforceable and that this is the marina's way of getting rid of
the kids.  We are to present ourselves at the marina office to sign the new
lease no later than March 1.

I know of one family with two teenage kids, one with a living at home young
adult, and one couple who just had a baby last month.  $200.00/child/month is
a big hit when you're already a family on a tight budget.  The irony is that
people don't usually liveaboard because they're rich boat owners.  It's
usually because they can't afford to buy a house.

So my question is, is this a normal tactic?  Am I naive to think that it's
an unusual circumstance which should at least be protested?  I have no
interest in this (i.e., we're not having children) other than from the
standpoint that it seems very anti-family, anti-people and anti-tenant to me.
I don't want to make a stink big enough to have us thrown out (liveaboard
slips are tough to come by here), but I do feel like making them uncomfortable
about what they're doing.

Any thoughts on the subject?

-- 
Linda V. Hill                           "Nakia", Hans Christian 33
Network Equipment Technologies          Email: linda@net.com
800 Saginaw Drive, 23.2.3               Phone: (415) 780-5785
Redwood City, CA 94063 			Fax:   (415) 780-5001
From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:38:01 GMT
Subject: Re: SF Boat Show
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO