HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA ( Is a new CFV really needed ?)
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 00:54:27 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.140123.18711@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>In article <26JE8OF@taronga.com>, peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>> Sorry, you don't get a veto.

>Why not ?

Nobody gets a veto. I don't. You don't. Spaf doesn't. Dave doesn't. Henry
doesn't. Even Ken and Dennis don't.

>And who are you to decide that ?

I didn't decide it. It's a simple fact.

>Oh I see, you are one of those self-appointed net.gods ;-)

Hardly.

>Someone who threatened to cut the Houston feed but couldn't do it.

I suggest you try reading what I wrote. Your memory is obviously not
up to the task. I said I'd cut your group on the largest public access
site in Houston.

>Someone who takes great pride and shows as proof of his 
>integrity a successful vote he carried despite personal opposition of the
>group.

It's better than a 50% successful vote that's still being debated long
after it supposedly passed. Is that what you have to show as proof of 
YOUR integrity?

>What makes you think you qualify to be a net.god, Mr. da Silva ?

What makes you think I care? For that matter, you're the one claiming
you get some special veto power nobody else does. What makes YOU think
you qualify to be a net.god?

>Someone who attempted to intimidate when one did not agree with him.

Lots of people don't agree with me. That doesn't bother me. People
acting like swaggering tinplated dictators with delusions of godhood
do.

>Sorry, I don't like hugging wolfs.

Ah. that's your problem. You need more hugs.
-- 
/F{findfont exch scalefont setfont}def /S{moveto show}def /T{/Times-Roman F}def
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/Courier F(`-_-')488 40 S ( 'U` )488 30 S 6 T (+1 713 568 0480 2400/n/8/1)24 27
S (+1 713 568 1032 Trailblazer)24 20 S 12 T (Peter da Silva)24 45 S showpage
From: coram@ed.ecn.purdue.edu (Kevin C Coram)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.games.mud.social
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:14:54 GMT
Reply-To: coram@ed.ecn.purdue.edu (Kevin C Coram)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Apr13.181224.15737@uunet.uu.net> alansz@cogsci.berkeley.edu (Alan Schwartz) writes:
>
>Name:	rec.games.mud.social
>Status:	unmoderated
>Charter:
>	Provide a forum for discussion related to "social"
> 	multi-user dimensions, eg. TinyMUD, MUSH, MUSE, MOO,
>	etc. Topics appropriate to the group include, but are
>	not limited to, 
>		- Questions about social muds
>		- Information about existing social muds
>		- Discussions of ideas related to social virtual reality
>

Even though I am not really into social muds myself, I thought I should
register an "official" opinion for this proposal.  I think it is a good
idea.  Those people more interested in one type of MUD than the other
probably do not want to read postings about the type they don't prefer.
Creating a social newsgroup will divide the postings logically, and keep
them more seperate, making things more "convienent" for thoe interested
in the postings.

Please do not post responses DIRECTED to me, as I do not plan to follow the
discussion very closely.  If you feel you need to comment to ME, please do
so via e-mail.

===============================================================================
# Somehow I don't feel shocked or frightened or even surprised.  Sometimes,   #
# I guess, you've just got to have the right ATTITUDE about these things.     #
#	-- Cory Emerson, DP 3.5                                               #
===============================================================================
# Kevin C. Coram                      # OF COURSE, all the opinions expressed #
# INTERNET:   coram@ed.ecn.purdue.edu # here ONLY mine.  After all, who else  #
# CompuServe: 72567,2201              # would even WANT them?                 #
===============================================================================
From: rdale@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Robert Dale)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.sport.baseball.roto
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:49:10 GMT
Organization: Purdue University, W Lafayette IN

I think its about time for the group to start...  Especially as a beginning
fantasy player I have a lot of questions that are hard to ask with
all of the posts on r.s.baseball.

Rob
--
Robert P. Dale                          <>      rdale@attserv.atms.purdue.edu
Purdue University Atmospheric Sciences  <>      74010.302@compuserve.com
West Lafayette, Indiana                 <>      N8GSK@K9IU.IN.USA.NOAM
From: ecaxron@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Comments on rec.sport.baseball.roto
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:13:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: ariel.14APR199210134986
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Here are comments received to date on rec.sport.baseball.roto.

**********************************************************************

From: navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Navarra)

	What would really be useful is to get a mailing list together
to do stats. I would love to have a copy of the USA TODAY's stats 
electronically available every week. In that way, I could write my own
sorting program and cut the time of doing stats a great deal. The other
option is to pay some stat service to do this.

	What I propose is to gather some people together (say about 25 
or so) who are interested in one league's stats and their job would
be to type in ALL the stats from the Wednesday USA TODAY and send a copy
off to other people in the list. If the group was this big then you would
have to perform this ugly task only once for the year.

**********************************************************************

From: grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner)

I suggest that the name be .fantasy rather than .roto, particularly if
you plan to discuss tabletop games.  [Also,] updates on individual players
may be of general interest to r.s.bb as well.

**********************************************************************

From: dadler@aguila.AOC.NRAO.EDU (David Adler)

I just wanted to drop in a word of thanks to EVERYONE on this mailing
list who responded to my request for auction advice. I had what I consider
a very succesful auction, and I think that I am now certainly in a position
to finish in the money. Special thanks to Mike Dalecki and Ron Graham for
the detailed hints on strategy.                            

**********************************************************************

Here's my response: Mr. Navarra's idea would dovetail nicely with such
a new group.  The Mailing List has seen several volunteers for team 
updates, which have assisted others in preparing for drafts.

Mr. Grabiner's suggestion (regarding .fantasy) is reasonable, and I 
would like to hear from others regarding their preference on this.  Is
a "straw" :-) poll necessary?

Several people have indicated that updates on individual players continue
to be of interest to the parent group.  This appears to be the only item
in the proposed charter which would lead to cross-posting, and such cross-
posting appears to be justified.  That information does not constitute a
great deal of traffic within r.s.bb, but it "boggs" :-) down the Mailing
List something fierce.  So "updates on individual players" stays in the
charter for the proposed new group, but I am not calling for those updates
to leave r.s.bb.

Mr. Adler's note is a reminder of the usefulness of the Mailing List, and
of the potential usefulness of a new group.

RG
Owner/GM, Cameroon Indomitable Lions, Building 86 League
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: brunner@kazoo.ssd.loral.com (Brian Brunner)
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.arts.dragonlance
Reply-To: brunner@kazoo.ssd.loral.com (Brian Brunner)
Organization: Space Systems/Loral
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 09:27:08 GMT

In article <13439@suns8.crosfield.co.uk>, jc@crosfield.co.uk
(jerry cullingford) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr4.180931.15062@uunet.uu.net>
|> EGIBBS@csci1.csci.unt.edu (Austin Gibbs) writes:
|> >Group: rec.arts.dragonlance
|> >Status: unmoderated
|> >Proposed Charter:
|> >   The Dragonlance series from TSR, the makers of the AD&D
|> > role-playing system, has become a series with several books
|> >on the bestseller list. There are many uses for a discussion group.
|> 
|> As a general comment, I'm not convinced that there's actually a need for
|> a seperate group. To take the possibilities in turn...
|> 
|> I haven't been reading the frp group recently, so I can't comment on that.

We have not discussed Dragonlance books or art in rec.games.frp for
ages and ages... except to bemoan the degradation of Art to art-that-will-
sell-things-it-is-attached-to-so-show-the-sexy-legs-on-the-
moral-leader-virgin-princess-and-dress-her-like-a-piece-of-meat-
for-sale type bitchmoans.
T$R is not a happy subject on rec.games.frp.

|> Is there really enough volume to make a seperate group a good idea, since
|> there are already obvious places to post discussions? It doesn't look like
|> it on the book side... and creating a new group is unlikely to produce a
|> massive increase, since there _are_ places to post already; It's not as
|> though there's nowhere to talk about it.

As a gamer and a reader, I agree.

|> 

--
HELP!! Somebody slapped a "stop payment" on my sanity check!!
brunner@kazoo.ssd.loral.com; Space Systems/Loral; Palo Alto, Calif.
Black Holes... the /dev/null of the Universe; the opinion of 65534.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 21:21:42 GMT

alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>In article <rdippold.703210289@cancun>, rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>> >> C) The vote was invalid; it is considered as if it never occured.
>> >> 
>> 
>> >If we consider that the vote never occured,
>> >please explain to me: On what basis are the 48 % sites carrying SCIA ?
>> 
>> Automatic newgrouping.

>????????

I can't believe you would need this explained.  Someone sent out a
newgroup message from SCIA.  Quite a few sites will have the software
automatically add the group no matter what.  I'm sure quite a few
admins that saw it thought it looked reasonable and newgrouped it
without knowing about all the controversy as well.
-- 
If you are seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:47:15 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:

>hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
> >    Actually, this might be a good time. If during the summer months
> >manga discussions dominate r.a.c the it lends more evidence in favor of
> >a mainstream manga group.

>Not really. At the moment, the net.manga community is spending most of
>their free time trying to convince news.groups that they actually know
>enough about manga (and comics, and japan, and... ) to know where it
>belongs in the Usenet hierarchy.

    Yes, but do you know enough about newsgroup hierarchies, and naming
conventions to know where the manga group belongs? Or do you know enough
about UseNet site administration to know which name will be the easiest
to handle? These are the questions that I have been debating. I have
never accused any of the r.a.m supporters of not knowing "enough about
manga".

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.comics.manga is anomalous and misleading.
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:34:08 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:

>lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
> >We have an existing hierarchy for comics, and
> >since manga are a type of comics

>Wrong, wrong, wrong.  Comics and manga are as different as boxing
>and martial arts.

    Fine. I'm still waiting for someone to explain what this difference
is. I personally, have read manga, namely the Akira series and a good
number of the Viz series, and it certainly seemed as though I was
reading a comic book. How are they so different?

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin
From: gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...)
Subject: Re: BENDING THE GUIDELINES IS BAD NEWS
Organization: Ursa Minor Beta, 402-476-8047 @ 2400
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 18:33:16 GMT

JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:

> The RFD on soc.personals.* has said that two of the
>proposed groups may not passed due to the so called
>"homophobic" voters on the net; so in order to prevent
>this alledged problem, the proposer of the RFD suggested
>suspending the requirement that each group be considered as
>a separate vote. After I and others voiced our objection to
>the kind of precedent that such bending of the Guidelines
>would create, the proposer has announced that following the
>advice of several moderators (among them David Lawrence) he
>will hold separate votes on each of the four groups. However,
>he intends to put a provision in the CFV stating that if any
>one of the groups fails then *all* groups fail regardless of
>the votes. As he says it "what a loophole."

> Such a "loophole" in my opinion is no different than suspending
>the Guidelines just to accomodate any one particular group (regardless
>how altruistic or worthy that group may be); we are about to set a
>terrible precedent.

The precedent was already set when rec.games.video made split out the
rec.games.video.arcade group.  A conditional statement was made
regarding the results there.  And the vote and newgroup went through.

> I for one will make one final attempt at keeping whatever shreds of
>sanity and rationality we have left on the net and will ask David Lawrence
>to withdraw his alledged support for "one vote for four different groups".

That is NOT what he is granting.  It is four votes for four different
(but related) groups, and requiring them all to pass if any newgroups be
sent out.  This makes it harder for the groups to be created, not
easier.

However, I STILL disagree with the proposer's line of telling people to
please vote all YES or all NO on the groups.  Each group should be voted
on by its own merit as if the condition never existed.  By voters
showing support for even a subsection of a proposal, you get figures on
what ones were the most popular, so that if one does fail, the entire
proposal can use those results to find a better proposal to put forth in
6 months.

> By the way, how do I feel about the four proposed groups ? I feel that
>they all deserve to pass, but as four separate votes with no special
>provisions attached to them. If done according to the guidelines
>I'll vote YES for all of them, but if the guidelines are suspended
>or twisted I intend to vote NO on all four.

There is no suspension or twisting of the Guidelines.  Conditional
statements have been used in the past, so this is hardly a net-breaking
event.

>Jose L. Martinez

--
  ///   ____   \\\       | CAUTION:
  | |/ /    \ \| |       | Avoid eye contact.  In case of contact, flush
   \\_|\____/|_//        | mind for 15 minutes.  See a psychiatrist if
       \_)\\/            | irritation persists.  Not to be taken
gberigan `-' cse.unl.edu | seriously.  Keep out of sight of children.
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:01:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Apr16.210130.22746
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School

In <axolotl.703384521@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:

>geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner) writes:
> >The potential for lack of crossover in a hierarchy is a good thing. It
> >reduced crossposting and makes the whole hierarchy more efficient. If a
> >*.comics.manga group has NO crossposting to rec.arts.comics I think that
> >would make the whole group creation a success.

>If none of the traffic was relevant to comics, it means that the name of
>the group would be an incredible anomaly.

>I thought people wanted a helpful namespace?

I never said anything about traffic being 'relevant' or not. I simply
stated that the less crossposting there is in a hierarchy the better.
ie: rec.arts.comics and rec.arts.comics.strips are in the same hierarchy
but there is very little crossposting. Why? Because strips is a well
defined type of comic and all discussion of that type is placed where it
belongs. The name is not an anomoly, it is well chosen and helpfull.

Ideally traffic in rec.arts.comics.misc and rec.arts.comics.manga would
involve very little crossposting. Traffic that belongs in one specific
group doesn't need to be posted to a misc group.

ie: Where would I post about a problem with a System installation on a
Macintosh? comp.sys.mac.system. comp.sys.mac.misc exists but why post to
it if there is already an appropriate group to post to?

*.misc groups (IMO) are the home of any traffic that isn't large enough to
rate its own group. Manga seems able to produce enough traffic for its own
group so placing it in a separate group from rec.arts.comics.misc makes
perfect sense, but it doesn't elevate the status of manga or reduce other
comics. It merely makes a statement about which is a more popular subject
of discussion at the moment.

-Geoff

--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU  -  Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business

	"I hate Vulcans!  I hate the logic!  I hate the arrogance!"
		-Sela
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: BENDING THE GUIDELINES IS BAD NEWS
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 02:27:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.183316.21323@unlinfo.unl.edu> gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...) writes:
>The precedent was already set when rec.games.video made split out the
>rec.games.video.arcade group.  A conditional statement was made
>regarding the results there.  And the vote and newgroup went through.

I missed that one. Could you elaborate?

(see what happens. I get a life and next thing you know I'm missing stuff
 on news.groups. Let this be a lesson to all newshacks)
-- 
/F{findfont exch scalefont setfont}def /S{moveto show}def /T{/Times-Roman F}def
6 T (Have you hugged your wolf today?)468 20 S 9 T (Taronga Park BBS)24 35 S 10
/Courier F(`-_-')488 40 S ( 'U` )488 30 S 6 T (+1 713 568 0480 2400/n/8/1)24 27
S (+1 713 568 1032 Trailblazer)24 20 S 12 T (Peter da Silva)24 45 S showpage
From: tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Tonghyun Kim)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:18:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.31624
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Apr13.223647.16643@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>
>    Ok, fine. I have really had about enough of these assertions that
>manga are not comic books. What I want to see from people is their
>definition of manga and their definition of comic books. Then we can
>really decide if they are different. And remember, no using one to
>define the other.

The term "manga" is a very tricky word. In Japan and Korea (pronounced
MAN-HWA in Korean, but with exactly same chinese characters), the word 
"manga" is used for anime/animation as well. Anime fans wouldn't use 
"manga" for anime but non-anime fans (who are the majority of the society) 
don't distinguish anime from manga; to them they're all manga (manhwa).

So the definition manga = comic is NOT true. Only PRINTED "manga"
can be called "comic".


Tonghyun "Vajra" Kim
tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu
From: jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:01:23 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: jingoro

In article <cpsjdd+@lynx.unm.edu> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim) writes:
>
>>> I have to wonder how many of the people who are arguing for
>>> rec.arts.manga are non-native speakers of English who aren't
>>> interpreting words like "comics", "manga", and "anime" in the same way
>>> that most native speakers would. 
>>
>> Are you calling me "ignorant" of the English language?
>
>I'm calling *several* people ignorant of the English language, no sneer
>quotes needed.  Anyone who makes constant incorrect assertions about what
>specific words mean to the average English speaker is ignorant of something,
>and the English language seems the most obvious something in sight.

Well, again I personally have stated that I am not arguing with the
dictionary definition of the words under question.  Secondly, I think
that I was trying to deal with the working definition/jargon of the
terms involved here as they are seemingly being used.  

>> Just because I wasn't born here? 
>
>I have no idea what's getting in the way of your comprehension of the
>simple, direct explantions that people have been making about where
>a new manga newsgroup would belong.  If English is a second language
>to you, that seems a likely possibility.
>
>>  I'm really sorry to hear you make a comment like that.
>
>Well trust me on this one . . . I'm really sorry to have to make it.
>

Well, the fact that you made it in such an openly read forum makes me 
seriously doubt that you had too much remorse in making it.

What am I to infer?  Should I infer that anyone supporting your side
who happens to attend unm will be as narrow-minded and as predujiced
as you?  For the sake of your school, I'd hope not.  Anyone who
who makes your type of statements, and just won't even consider 
the other viewpoint rationally, has some character flaw, and "narrow-minded"
seems the most obvious in sight.


--
Jun Kim                                         jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.Com
Sun Microsystems
Mountain View, CA                               "Oboete imasu ka..."
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: SCIA: The new CFV... is it needed ?
From: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin)
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:11:24 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Beckman Instruments, Inc.

In <1992Apr6.153811.15579@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:

>    I would just like to point out for the record that ONCE THE CFV HAS
>BEEN POSTED THERE IS TO BE NO MORE DISCUSSION ON THE GROUP. The
>discussion period set by the RFD has ended with the posing of the CFV
>and so should the discussion.

WRONG.
--
Arthur L. Rubin: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (work) Beckman Instruments/Brea
216-5888@mcimail.com 70707.453@compuserve.com arthur@pnet01.cts.com (personal)
My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of my employer.
Ich bin ein Virus.  Mach' mit und kopiere mich in Deine .signature.