HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cecilw@access.isc-br.com (Cecil Williams)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Food from Seattle to Provo
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:31:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: tau-ceti.2468
Distribution: pnw
Organization: ISC-Bunker Ramo, Spokane, WA


 (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>Saturday, I'm driving from Seattle to Provo Utah.  My route is:  I-5 from
>Seattle to Ellensburg, 

Hey Deb! If you find a way to get from Seattle to Ellensburg on I-5, 
could you share it with the rest of us? I always seem to end up in Portland
or Canada on I-5. <-:<

Once you do get to Ellensburg, and you're feeling a little hungry, if
you don't like the pre-fab salads at the fast food shops you can always
do what I do, and load up on locally grown fruit and veggies at the
produce stands.  Yakima and Umatilla, down the road a piece, are good
places to do this also.  It's probably too late for cherries...To bad;
Toolin' down I-90 groovin to some Mozart, Willy, or Megadeath on the CD
player and spitting cherry pits out the window makes for a priceless 
afternoon... 

(-:
Cecil
From: petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly)
Subject: Re: pandhandlers
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:12:30 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <16390001@b-mrda.ca.boeing.com> miller@b-mrda.ca.boeing.com (Mark Miller) writes:
>monaghan@carson.u.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan) writes:
>
>[...missive about non-productive members of society deleted for brevity...]
>
>> Three causes for homelessnes:
>>     1)  Substance abuse and inadequate treatment facilities available
>>     2)  Mental illness and inadequate treatment facilities available
>>     3)  Job loss and inadequate re-training facilities available
>> 
>> 
>> Do you see a pattern here?
>> ----------
>
>Not really, Tracy. Having worked with several people in the first and third
>category through Christian ministries, it has become obvious that many folks
>would rather stay on the street than accept the responsibilities that go along
>with being a "responsible citizen". (For the purposes of this discussion, let's
>say that a "responsible citizen" will not beat spouse or child, will attempt to
>hold a job, etc., etc.) No treatment in the world, even if provided free, will
>be effective to those who are too comfortable with chaos to change.
>
>This is not to say that *all* people on the streets are there by choice. Many
>take advantage of what is offered and get a new lifestyle. I was surprised
>by the number who turn away help for reasons known only to them.

Could we possibly move those in group 1 to group 2.  Substance abuse is
a legit mental illness, and treatment is avaliable for it, be it under
funded.

In fact, a loss of self image due to the ability to find a job, and other
factors common in the homeless can cause depression and hopelesness.
Would you move back into the real world if you though there was no way for
things to get better.  I'd classify these cases into those needing
counseling also.

As for the statement about No treatment will work, well, I disagree.
Maybe you just hadn't found the proper treatment or paradigm yet.

As for there being inadequate treatment facilities, this is VERY true.
But it's not all, there is inadequate staffing at the facilities.
And programs are poorly designed.

Some of the facilities may deal with the basic issues of food and shelter,
but usually have very few people who can deal with the important issues of
depression, hopelessness, etc.  Those issues are related to why the people
have stayed homeless in the first place.  It may start off due to lack of
employment, or drug use, or whatever, but a loss of self image due to living
on the street can be devistating.

Out of preach mode....petesk@microsoft.com
My opinions.
From: bbaugh@pdaxs.techbook.com (bruce)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand and Libertarianism
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:59:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdaxs.3DNLoB2w165w
Organization: Portland Public Access sponsored by TECHbooks Bookstore

dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:
> >                    I much prefer Jan Narveson's approach in THE 
> >LIBERTARIAN IDEA, in which he establishes a political order not based on 
> >intuition, but goes on to recognize that what people _do_ in such a 
> >society will and should be based on non- and extra-rational 
> >considerations of virtue.)
> 
> Is this a book?  I'll have to read it.  Again, I think Rand's point
Yes, THE LIBERTARIAN IDEA is a fairly recent work -- about two years old, 
if I recall correctly. But I'm afraid I don't have bibliographic data on 
hand; I got it from the local library. 

Narveson spends the first two parts dealing with the fairly abstract 
philosophical questions of libertarianism's philosophical possibility and 
desirability -- the good parts of these are where he works at building a 
non-intuition-based framework for rights -- then takes up a number of 
very practical concerns in the third part.

---
bbaugh@pdaxs.techbook.com (bruce) (Public Access User)
pdaxs gives free access to news & mail. (503) 644-8135 - 1200/2400, N81  
Send to info@techbook.com for more information.
Public access users are <NOT> affiliated with TECHbooks.
From: Eric_S_Klien@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Electronic Matchmaker
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 00:57:01 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Washington women, having a problem finding a Washington man?  I am 
about to launch a free electronic matching service on Usenet.  
Unfortunately, more guys than gals have expressed an interest so far.  
If you would like to see the fourth draft of my questionnaire so we 
can alter it to also fit women's needs as well as men's, either send 
me mail or look at the copy I posted in alt.personals.  
 
This service is serious and I already have 161 men and 111 women
signed up so far.  The site of the service has already been selected
and programming has begun.
 
                                                           Eric Klien
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler)
Subject: Re: pandhandlers
Organization: =>ESKIMO NORTH (206) 367-3837 SEATTLE, WA.<=
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:59:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.061507.1141@u.washington.edu> davidb@zeus.ce.washington.edu (David W. Barts) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.231433.4639@hpcvca.cv.hp.com>, scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
>>       4)  The person likes to live on the street (there are quite a few of
>>           these).

>Now why are there people on the street?  Wait!  I got it!  They *want*
>to live there.  It's a comfortable, cushy life.  It's far nicer to be
>out sleeping under the Alaskan Way Viaduct on a rainy January night
>than it is to be in a stuffy old house or apartment.  Yeah, that's the
>ticket...

    (from an old Doonesberry cartoon)  Hey they're all camping.  And we
all know what fun camping is.  Boy, wouldn't it be great to live a life
where you were camping all the time?



-- 
****************************************************************************
* Dave                          *               The Alpinist               *
* alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com *            DARE to be stoopid!           *
****************************************************************************
From: markj@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Mark R Jensen)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: pandhandlers
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:50:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: tekig7.6326
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Jul28.061507.1141@u.washington.edu> davidb@zeus.ce.washington.edu (David W. Barts) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.231433.4639@hpcvca.cv.hp.com>, scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
>>       4)  The person likes to live on the street (there are quite a few of
>>           these).
>
>Now why are there people on the street?  Wait!  I got it!  They *want*

Ok, I can't stand it any longer! I happen to have a relative that is
homeless (dead beat bum), actually she's the mother-in-law from hell!
She hangs with another dead beat that is an extremily talented artist
but wont do anything with his talent. They have both come right out and
said that neither of them want a *Real* job because they don't want the
responsability of having to show up each day and/or be consistant! On
the other hand they think nothing of showing up at my house or anyone
elses for that matter, planting thier asses down and refussing to take a
hint to leave untill you come right out and kick them out! Ok I've been
a nice guy a few times (just to keep on the wifes good side) and let the
bums stay a day or two. In a few days time all they seemed to accomplish
was to eat all the food they could get thier hands on and take up the
couch! They never lifted a finger or offered to help around the house or
do anything to make them selves welcome. Needless to say they are not
welcome to camp at the Jensen hotel any longer, the hell with them! I'm
sorry but I have no pitty for these people, as far as I'm concerned they
*HAVE* chosen to be were they are and thats it. BTW, if any of you
watched 60 minuts Sunday they did a story on street people in LA. These
were people that held good jobs in they past and had the ability to get
a good job. The main thing I got from the story was that most were there
because they got *burned* out, sniff sniff, I feel a tear, give me a
break!  Ok, smoke from the ears mode off!
Newsgroups: pnw.general,or.general,pdx.general
From: nabil@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Aaron Nabil)
Subject: Anyone using 386 SX's as embedded processors/controllers?
Organization: Explosive Space Modulators - R - Us
Distribution: pnw
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 11:43:42 GMT

Drop me a line if you are using 386 SX's as an embedded controller,
or have experience with 386 SX ICE systems (or you want a copy
of whatever anyone else replies).  I'm interested in what people
have to say about them versus other inexpensive processors, and
about development and support platforms for 386 SX hardware & software.

Thanks!
-- 
Aaron
nabil@cse.ogi.edu
Xref: sparky pnw.general:1661 or.general:482 pdx.general:961
From: mikeq@aspen.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: pnw.general,or.general,pdx.general
Subject: Re: Project Vote Smart
Keywords: candidates, election, views
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:13:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: master.3245
Followup-To: pnw.general
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

The Bush administration refused outright 
to cooperate with Project Vote Smart.

Apparently, the last thing George Bush needs is a smart voter.

Mike
From: bbaugh@pdaxs.techbook.com (bruce)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Anyone using 386 SX's as embedded processors/controllers?
Date: 25 Jul 92 17:48:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdaxs.waBHoB3w165w
Organization: Portland Public Access sponsored by TECHbooks Bookstore

Hmm, I believe that Dad is. He designs ranging equipment for NASA's Deep 
Sapce Network. Let me check and get back to you...

---
bbaugh@pdaxs.techbook.com (bruce) (Public Access User)
pdaxs gives free access to news & mail. (503) 644-8135 - 1200/2400, N81  
Send to info@techbook.com for more information.
Public access users are <NOT> affiliated with TECHbooks.
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Food from Seattle to Provo
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:14:35 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

Saturday, I'm driving from Seattle to Provo Utah.  My route is:  I-5 from
Seattle to Ellensburg, I-82 from Ellensburg to Oregon (Pendleton?), then
I-84 to Ogden, Utah, then I-15/SR 89 to Provo.

Can anyone recommend vegetarian-friendly restaurants along the way?  They
don't necessarily have to be all vegetarian, but it would be really nice
to find some places to eat at along the way that have more extensive ideas
about vegetarian food than grilled cheese sandwiches and iceberg lettuce
salads.

Thanks,

Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das
From: monaghan@carson.u.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Project Vote Smart
Keywords: candidates, election, views
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:21:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul28.162124.15021
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

To be fair, Clinton (or his campaign staff) would not answer their telephone
survey, but only sent them his position papers.


Tracy
From: monaghan@carson.u.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:03:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul23.220328.4648
Distribution: pnw.general
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


	(TACOMA)- Pierce County sheriff's deputies shot and killed a gunman
outside an art studio near Puyallup. The victim is identified only as a
48-year-old man... who authorities say worked at the studio. Sheriff's
spokesman Curt Benson says the man walked outside the studio with a
rifle yesterday... refused repeated orders to drop the firearm... then
pointed it at deputies, who opened fire. Benson says the man had fired
the rifle inside the building earlier. Investigators say the gunman was
upset over an illness and a failed romance. Law-enforcement officials
say the deputies involved in the shooting have been assigned to desk
duty while the incident is reviewed.
From: davidb@zeus.ce.washington.edu (David W. Barts)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Date: 25 Jul 92 06:48:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul25.064806.4744
Distribution: pnw.general
Organization: University of Washington

In article <1992Jul23.220328.4648@u.washington.edu>, monaghan@carson.u.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan) writes:
> 	(TACOMA)- Pierce County sheriff's deputies shot and killed a gunman
> outside an art studio near Puyallup. The victim is identified only as a
> 48-year-old man... [edited]

Undoubtedly true, but a sample size of 1 is generally considered to
be a poor basis on which to draw conclusions.

--
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
         In Hell, you can have whatever workstation you want
            (but it always comes with an LK-201 keyboard).
Newsgroups: pnw.general,seattle.general
From: lampi@polari.online.com
Subject: R Squared Offering Seminar on Unix Data Management
Summary: *Free*
Organization: R Squared, Redmond, WA (206) 883-3116
Distribution: pnw
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:41:51 GMT

You are invited to be our guest as R Squared presents a one-day seminar on:

        Data Management Solutions for the 90's

Wednesday, July 29, 1992, from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. at the Bellevue Red Lion
Hotel, 300 - 112th Avenue SE, Bellevue, WA 98004.

Seminar discussion topics will include:
  . I/O servers
  . Near line optical storage
  . High speed data scanning
  . Backup strategies
  . Tape subsystems
  . Disk arrays
  . Network growth in the 90's

(This is *not* an exhibition of a bunch of hardware and salespeople trying
to get you to buy their stuff. Rather, a number of manufacturers are going
to discuss different problem areas and their approaches to solving those
problems in a networked Unix system environment.)

Lunch is provided, but an RSVP is required.

For more information or to make a reservation, please call (206) 883-3116
no later than Friday, July 24, 1992.

-- 
-----
+-+  Michael Lampi       lampi@polari.online.com
|R|  R Squared           16398 NE 85th St., Suite 101, Redmond, WA 98052
+-+                      (206) 883-3116       fax (206) 883-2676
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: FDA still at large
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:44:45 GMT
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

In article <1992Jul26.200300.2652@eskimo.celestial.com> kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum) writes:
/In article <855@nazgul.UUCP> bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
/>Freedom and responsibility are two sides to the same coin.
/>Slavery and irresponsibility are two sides to another coin.
/I suspect that they are all sides of the same tetrahedral die; to some
/degree all 4 attributes are present in all of us, and they don't seem to be
/orthogonal.

I think I misstated my point. The transition from freedom to slavery is
a continuum. But if you mix in responsibility, you do not get another
dimension. You cannot have a slave with responsibility, and you cannot
have freedom of choice without responsibility for those choices.

Americans are headed for disaster in their desire for freedom of choice
*and* lack of responsibility for those choices. It simply cannot be.

Saying it another way, whoever you abdicate responsibility to you also
abdicate choice to.
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler)
Subject: Re: government still at large (was Re: FDA still at large)
Organization: =>ESKIMO NORTH (206) 367-3837 SEATTLE, WA.<=
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:38:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.230434.10536@Happy-Man.com> Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com writes:
>In <1992Jul28.175234.3653@eskimo.celestial.com> alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler) writes:
>
>> Well, it sure as heck doesn't 'trickle down' to the populace.  Over the past
>>Decade the richest 10% of the nation went from owning a little less than 1/4
>>of the nations wealth to over 1/3.  That means the majority got poorer.

>I don't have a reference for the total value of the nation's wealth
>over the last decade, so I'll pose this as a question:  did the bottom
>90% get poorer, or did the value of the nation's assets increase less
>than 15% over ten years?

    The 'value' of the nations assets has nothing to do with it.  It is
the quantity of the nations production that makes the difference.  If the
poorer 90% of the nation has gone from owning 3/4 to 2/3 of the nations
wealth, it doesn't matter if the value of that wealth doubled, tripled, or
quadrupled.  The majority of people still have lost a large percentage of
the goods and services in this country which is what the value represents.
Production as a whole hasn't increased in this country.  Possibly the
opposite.

-- 
****************************************************************************
* Dave                          *               The Alpinist               *
* alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com *            DARE to be stoopid!           *
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: government still at large (was Re: FDA still at large)
Keywords: rich money wealth poor work economics
Date: 30 Jul 92 07:48:44 GMT
Organization: =>ESKIMO NORTH (206) 367-3837 SEATTLE, WA.<=

In article <7yXNoB1w165w@eisley.akita.com> wood@eisley.akita.com (Ken Wood) writes:
>     I generaly agree with you assertion here Dave but I think your 
>numbers are off.  The latest numbers I recall put the richest 10% at over 
>50% of the wealth.  Your numbers sound like they might come from the 
>income not the total wealth.

    Maybe.  I have heard the 50% statistic elsewhere but the last actual
statistics I have seen were a little over 35% (perhaps a couple years or
few old)  Maybe it's changed a lot.  Maybe the numbers mean different
things.

>  Also the 100 lifetimes is 
>way off.  It comes out to just over $300 of production per year.  And this
>is a conservative estimate ( only 33 years ).  In fact if you are a 
>professional you probably make as income over 1 million in your lifetime. 

   Well, there is a difference in earning a million dollars in a lifetime
and being currently worth a million dollars.  I still think that a person
who is worth a million dollars is living a level of consumption that would
take about 100 lifetimes of labor to produce, but I will round down my
number (just to be agreeable) to between 10 and 100 lifetimes (depending
on how one wants to define what the average wage should be).

-- 
****************************************************************************
* Dave                          *               The Alpinist               *
* alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com *            DARE to be stoopid!           *
****************************************************************************
From: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: re: Seattle Newspapers
Date: 26 Jul 92 19:31:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: Tomobiki.MS-C.712179085.1103527590.mrc
Organization: University of Washington
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
To: Tim W Smith <ts@cup.portal.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0

The difference between the Times and the P-I is Doonesbury.  In a
nutshell, it's like the situation in San Francisco, only there is no
strong regional alternative the way there is for the San Francisco
funny papers.

The P-I is a Hearst paper.  Need I say any more?

It has been claimed that the Times is `conservative' and the P-I is
`liberal', but that's only if you think Ted Kennedy is conservative.
There has been no tax increase or liberal cause in recent years that
the Times has not enthusiastically endorsed, and its highly biased
coverage (complete with 180 degree flip-flops to maintain an anti-US
stance) during the liberation of Kuwait was shameful.

Neither paper thinks there is any civilization of the west side of
Puget Sound.

The worst of all, neither the Times nor the P-I is intelligent.  The
New York Times is a liberal paper, and obnoxious about it at times,
but at least they take an intelligent and reasoned position and are
too fundamentally honest to deny embarassing facts that stare them in
the face.  You can't say the same about the Seattle rags.

Some of the other papers in the region, notably the Sun, are trying to
fill the gap, but none of them are really there yet.  The Sun has made
an amazing expansion in the past year, has much better international
coverage than the Times or P-I (a lot of its readership is military,
and those guys want to know what's going on in the world!), and only
misses `Crankshaft' from the comics (yes, it has Doonesbury).  Its
recent series on the environment and pollution in Hood Canal won it
several awards.  It is still pretty much a local paper for Kitsap
County, but they do recognize they are getting a lot of new
subscribers who dropped the Seattle funny papers and are trying
awfully hard to fill their needs.  I have high hopes.

I don't know too much about the other papers in the region, but there
is a clear gap to exploit and with the expansion in this area someone
is bound to do so.
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: pandhandlers
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:14:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvca.1992Jul27.231433.4639
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

monaghan@carson.u.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan) writes:
: 
: Three causes for homelessnes:
:     1)  Substance abuse and inadequate treatment facilities available
:     2)  Mental illness and inadequate treatment facilities available
:     3)  Job loss and inadequate re-training facilities available

      4)  The person likes to live on the street (there are quite a few of
          these).

--

Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: bradley@mdd.comm.mot.com (Michael Bradley)
Subject: Re: Seattle Newspapers
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:29:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.174107.2983@jazzie.com> sds@jazzie.com (Sean Shapira) writes:
>In article <62701@cup.portal.com> ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes:
>>should I get the Times or the PI?
>
>Tim, I can't imagine anyone doing a better job than you at
>introducing themselves to their new electronic neighbors.
>Congratulations!
>
>On the paper question, may I recommend two other alternatives?
>Both Charmin and Scott brand toilet papers are available in most
>Seattle area stores.  Both of these are much easier to flush
>down the toilet than either the Times or PI....
>-- 
>Sean Shapira        seans@microsoft.com        sds@jazzie.com

Agreed 
But they are not as nearly as good at lining the rabbits cage
or training a puppy.
 mrb


Newsgroups: pnw.general