HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jwales@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales)
Subject: Re: Flag Burning
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:20:51 GMT

Recall my theme for the week: current conservatives do not offer a
consistent case for individual liberty.  When it comes to _economic_
issues, they often use individualist rhetoric.  But when it comes to
_social_ isses, freedom goes out the window.

Here's a fine example:

JASON STEVEN EUCULANO writes:
>I know you will say that this is a free country
>and some more liberal crap like that, but how do you think it has stayed free?

So now freedom is 'liberal crap'.

Now, like Jamie, I've had a hard time sorting out the newcomers.  I'm
under the impression that some of them are thoughtful conservatives
who are seeking to better understand what happened to George Bush.

My thesis is that the Republican party has been taken over by people
who are not friends of freedom and capitalism, and that this has driven
away many people who are otherwise attracted to the Republican pro-capitalist
message.

>                                        Jayce

--Jimbo

p.s. (Jamie: I think that Jayce has responded to your request for posts
which will allow us to 'sort out' the newcomers.  I think we can
safely put him in the 'M' column.)
From: DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU (The Integral Differential)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: "President Clinton"
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:40:31 GMT
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>Steve, have at me :)
>Kerry

	Ooooo!  Is there a line?

Brett'
Politcally incorrect to the last :)
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From: 8612775@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA (MIKE)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: term limits
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:28:42 GMT
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Can Someone tell be how many of the term limits initiatives passed?
----mike..
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:18:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: sarcasm

Brett':
        Then the "newbies" should learn, not be coddled.

BTW - let me know when you come up with such surreptitious sarcasm that you
must suffer dozens of questions about it.  THAT I'd like to see.


-T.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:25:02 GMT
From:         "(Dunstan_Vavasour)" <dunstan@GEC-EPL.CO.UK>
Subject:      Special Interest Groupe
Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.acs.ohio-state.edu

T:
>Special Interest groups?  One would think that the Republican Party INVENTED
>them!
>

The only powerful special interest groups should be the political
parties. It is the relative weakness of the political parties which
leads to SIGs having such disproportionate power.

And if the parties were better able to fund themselves there wouldn't
be the need for PACs

Dunstan
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 19:19:57 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: Just when you thought it couldn't get any weirder...

In article <POLITICS%92110705482699@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>,
BRIDEC92@IRLEARN.UCD.IE (james p mcbride) says:
>
>On Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:46:13 GMT andy said:
>>
>>In article <1992Nov6.165318.20364@news.media.mit.edu>,
>>elwin@maidavale.media.mit.edu (Lee W Campbell) says:
>>>
>>>In article <1992Nov5.143502.5432@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu
>>>  I personally don't think Reagan would secretly turn his back on the
>>>republican party in the privacy of the voting booth. That's not his style.
>>
>>More likely he couldn't remember who Bush is:) Quayle sounded like a man
>>approaching average intelligence when he conceded. Is it possible that
>>his brain only goes into abeyance when he's an elected politician?:)
>
>WOOAAHHHH!!!  Having just spent the last couple of days trying to get the
>conservatives to lay off Clinton, I'm not going to let this pass either.  I
>saw Quayle's concession speech, and thought it graceful, and courteous.
>Listen, they've gone, they've lost (for now).  Lay off the guy and give him
>a decent farewell, please?
>
And what am I supposed to do with my anti-Quayle t-shirts!:)


>
>james
From: CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: bounced checks
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:08:00 GMT
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Well, Jason, your argument about "floating interest-free loans" holds no water,
either; all the Members of the Bank, when signing on, agreed to such a service -
and the money came from THEIR ACCOUNTS.  No taxpayer money went to "float"
these loans.  It was something they all shared in, and NEVER had a problem
with.

If the money came from somewhere else, or if there were major complaints, then,
maybe - there would be a problem.  But since there wasn't.......

-T.
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:38:54 -0500
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Odin's day (was re: 1996)
Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.bitnet

linda:
>what is the meaning of wednesday.....jess asked me that last night....i said,
>i dunno, maybe people used to get married only on wed-nesday's? he didn't think
>this was a likely definition.

I was taught that Wednesday is derived from Odin's Day (or Wodin's day, if
you prefer).  Thursday is Thor's day.  Saturday is Saturn's day or Sabbath,
depending on your preference :)  That's all I can think of for weekdays
without consulting a dictionary.  Of course, in Spanish it's different :)

Cheers!
Kerry
lookin' forward to those v-beers; after an entire afternoon of freshman
advising, I'll need it!
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 12:52:52 CST
From:         erteltsa@ALPHA.HENDRIX.EDU
Subject:      RE: "President Clinton"
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Please excue the typing and grammar. I've been up all night and I'm not
my usual self. Besides, if that is the ONLY negative remark you can make
regarding my post, then I suggest that you too vacate this list or else
succomb to a lack of being able to adequately attack a post.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 18:24:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: ==> YES!!!!!

Special Interest groups?  One would think that the Republican Party INVENTED
them!

Oh, I forgot - NRA, AARP, AMA, National Right to Life, Christian Coalition,
etc. etc. etc. are LIBERAL DEMOCRATS!

Come off it, would you?  You and I both know where the major special interest
groups are politically.

-T.
[
   "People who want a cure, provided they can have it without pain, are like
    those who favor progress, provided they can have it without change"

                                        Anthony DeMello, _Taking Flight_

                                                                           ]
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:25:31 -0500
From:         ZIMMERJ@WABASH.BITNET
Subject:      sexual harrassment

ooops!  That last message on sexual harrassment was sent by me (JasonZ) NOT
Kerry.  Sorry for the blunder.

Jason
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:47:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: bounced checks

Jason:

     About bounced checks:

My federal credit union has a neat feature for its customers:
Automatic Overdraft Protection.  You see, if for some reason I
can't transfer money, or I forget - or whatever, and I write a
check for more than the amount I have in my checking account,
they simply cover the check. The money is called a "loan", and I
have the option of paying it automatically from my savings, or
paying the amount over time, with interest.

This service is for both forgetful people, and people who may
need emergency loans.

There is no major difference between that policy and the one they
used to have at the House Bank.  Now, if I took advantage of this
policy at my bank frequently, would this paint me in a bad light?
After all, it is a service they advertise to attract customers.
What's the deal?  Is there a difference?   I think not.  Anyone
care to comment?


-T.


"The expert misses the obvious.
The Chief Priest misses the Messiah."

                         -DeMello.
From: JCOCURUL@DREW.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Hosue Bank
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:34:00 GMT
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     Old debates don't die, do they?  Anita Hill was the problem of a
week or two ago.  Homosexuality is back again. Now we have bounced
checks, again.  (or overdrafts, whatever).  The problem, or one of
them, of all these issues is that they should be examined as issues
important for all, but each party or group is seen as tied to a
particular side.  Take the House Bank scandal.  This was seen as
another reason to take snipes at the Democratic Congress, like its
Democrats alone that tend to do such behavior.  Nope.  The behavior is the
result of one's power and expenditures as a Congressperson.  If
Republicans were in power there, they would be the top offenders --
both sides have their share of money problems.
     Nor is the House Bank is such a scandalous problem that people
should be voted out just because they were offenders. (I got an ad in the last
election by the R-C candidate against my Congressmen and the reason
for me to vote against my guy was because he oked his pay raise and
perks; apparently Rocky the squirrel is better then him because of
these facts).  What was the problem with the House bank?
Congresspeople with all they had to do didn't keep their books up to
speed.  This was a problem in 1990, but no one really cared.  I doubt
that in 1890 Congressmen were great in this regard.  Jefferson for one
had money problems.  7 conservatives freshmen types brought it up
since they had little need to worry, though other Republicans did like
Newt Gingrich.  It's nice to have Congresspeople having their books
straight, but sorry to say, them not having them straight is no big
surprise.  Maybe we can now search for banks and industry people who
have similar problems and get them out of office. Or just maybe look
for people who really are effective or have effective ideas in gov't.
     Just trying to put things it their proper perspective, hard thing
to do in most cases.  Yeah we want Congress to have less perks,
lobbying conflicts of interest, and financial resources that make them
nearly impossible to beat.  But a House Bank that have overdraft
protection that is not funded by our tax dollars is not up there is my
list of evils. When my mom with much less monetary concerns has a
messed up checkbook, I can understand how a Congressperson can have
one too.  The House Bank itself may be at fault, but how much blame
can we place on the person themselves for not preventing overdrafts?
Some I'll allow you, but not as much as many want to give.

   -Joe
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:49:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: RE:Catholic Tradition

Paul:

        When the Catholic Church preaches that this or that is immoral, they
are not imposing morality on non-Catholics.  When they lobby and fight for a law
, say, banning abortions FOR ALL AMERICANS, or fight to strike down ANTI-
discrimination (based on sexual orientation) laws, they are attempting to impose
their morality on US ALL.

Answer your question, finally?


-T.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:50:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      RE: veeeeeeerrry interesting...but stoopid...

Gary -

        If you understood what I was trying to do with Robert's TJE thing,
then why do you say that I blew it?  Even if I were on the list at the time
he explained it, I'd have to say it could still work.  Notice I say *could* -
I'm open to style criticism.  But if I were as rabidle right as some on this
list, even the suggestion that Teddy is an idol of mine would have to bug me
somewhere down the line.  Never suggested (hence the sarcasm) that it DID have
anything to do with los hombres Kennedy - at least never seriously.

Sounds pretty much like some Okie macho junk to me.

"Well, how are *you* Teddy Jack Eddy?  It's been *so* long since you've been
'round these parts, Teddy Jack Eddy.  Why doan-cha sit a spell, Teddy jack
Eddy?  Can I get y'all a beer, Teddy Jack Eddy?

Of course, there is the alternative notion:

So, Robert, you say that you are actually Teddy, Jack, Eddy AND Robert?

Can you let the Doctors talk with Teddy?  Is he is there, now, Robert?  Don't
be afraid.  We would just like to talk to Teddy.  Is that alright?  Or how
about Jack - is he in there to speak with?  Jack?  Will you allow Robert to
let us talk to you?  We can help, you know.  Now, don't fight the nurse.  She's
just giving you some nice medicine to help you relax - OK Jack er Teddy er
Robert?  There now, better?

If y'all wunt to speak yer mind regardin' this 'year post, walll, go right
inhead an' lemme' have it.

-T.
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Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 19:23:40 CST
From:         erteltsa@ALPHA.HENDRIX.EDU
Subject:      Re: Calooh! Callay!
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

No, Nazis were NOT anti-abortion. In fact, the scientists who were in charge
of murdering the Jews in the concentration camps experimented with many vaired
ways of killing people...gas chambers...firing squads...hanging...starvation...
They also experimented to find out what hurt people the most both physically,\
emotionally and psychologically. They found that for killing future children
it was better to kill them before they were born. Thus they killed the children
who were already born and they killed unborn children. They found that by
using abortion to kill unbron children, they could not only kill the child but
infict great emotional and psychological distress upon the mother. Thus, they
used abortion exclusively to kill the children of those in concentration camps.
--Steve
From: jse2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JASON STEVEN EUCULANO)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Let's get back to the point....
Date: 6 Nov 92 04:32:51 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

I believe that we have in fact deviated away from what we are here to discuss.
Does anyone out there actually believe that President-Elect (UGH!) Clinton
will reduce our national debt?  Will he continue to make appearances on
Arsenio Hall and the like to "stay in touch with the people?"  Will we really
have National Health Care and will it work?  Will there be an international
crisis, if so any bets as to where the first will be and when?
                        Awaiting MANY responces,
                                    Jayce
KEMP/BAKER '96!!!!!!!
From: MMORSE@YORKVM1.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: RE: This "12 years" thing
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:27:54 GMT
Organization: York University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Dear David,
  Let's put this to bed, before we bore the rest of the list. My last
remark, to which I welcome your rejoinder:
  What I have been talking about with R/B is not "controversial" policies,
but *criminal* ones, and criminal means to carry them out. It seems to me
that these crimes are not the incidental, "bad luck" hazard of any
administration--could Ike have "predicted" Sherman Adams, or LBJ, Abe
Fortas?--but a systematic result of a morally bankrupt value scheme.
  But here, too, I don't doubt we'll have to agree to disagree. If you
don't accept the "odious" comparison to other social darwinist regimes,
what would you say if I compared your euphemism "controversial" to
Khrushchev's 1956 account of Stalin's "mistakes"? In any case, I'll
gladly leave you the last word, with warm thanks for a very civilized
exchange!
Regards,
Michael
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 08:19:21 CST
From:         fred <CCHILDER@UNMCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      virtual home room monitor please call

My My, Jason, we are not a very happy camper today! Did we get up on
the wrong side of the election? I'm sure that you are correct (NOT)
that only idiots voted for clinton, and all of those idiot leaders
around the world are congratulating him because they know he is in
with the kgb from his college days.

Take a grow up pill and come back in four years for the next
election. Mr. list president, please ask the virtual home room
monitor to escort jason back to his cot for nap time and maybe
he will play better if he gets some rest.

fred
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 15:42:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: "President Clinton"

>have a family dog. Another friend stated that perhaps Chelsea could fill
>that role...(laughter).


oh great. just what i needed. another address to look for and delete unread.
*sigh*
-linda
From: erteltsa@ALPHA.HENDRIX.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: Calooh! Callay!
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:09:20 GMT
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Yes, CXhristianity HAS changed since Gandhi's encounter. If you'd care to
point out some of the ways in which it hasn't please do so.
--Steve
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 10:37:52 CST
From:         erteltsa@ALPHA.HENDRIX.EDU
Subject:      Re: Calooh! Callay!
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

RTF, what endless persecutions, mass murders and violent attacks? How 'bout
some proof of Christians being involved in these?
--Steve
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:17:27 -0500
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      term limits
Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.bitnet

Val and list members:
>I would say that while I can partially agree with Julie in spirit, I
>think term limits need to occur. I can recall arguing with the late
>Rep. Richard Bolling (author of _Power in the House and other books)
>that what was occurring was the creation of a class - politician
>professionalinus - that I saw as dangerous. He disagreed, as I knew
>he would, as he had served either 13 or 14 terms in the House. But,
>we have to get back to the concept of "citizen politician," and away
>from "career politician."

About citizen politicians and such -- will the kinds of people running for
elected office really become more diverse if term limits are adopted?  That
is, even with term limits in place to reduce the incumbent advantage, will
you really get people from many different backgrounds, professions, etc.
running for office?  Seems to me that (1) without campaign finance reform,
you're still going to need to be fairly wealthy to run (or to have enough
experience in *local* politics to amass lots of contributions -- but isn't
that sort of like being a "professional politician"?); and (2) you need to
be in a profession that "allows" you to take a break to serve, then return
to your former job.  What do y'all think:  if you wanted to serve, could
you take the requisite break from your job (or student-hood, or whatever)
and return to it?

I'm not saying this idea is correct, btw -- I just thought it was
interesting and would like to hear what y'all think.

Kerry
From: rhead@S850.MWC.EDU (robert v head jr)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: gays in military (Canada)
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:12:36 GMT
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Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Comments: To: "(Forum for the Discussion of Politics)"
              <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

> And for those who are disheartened about the Colorado initiative being
> passed, don't worry. The Federal Gay and Lesbian Civil Rights Bill will
> take care of that as soon as it's passed sometime in the next four years
> (as will ending the ban on gays and lesbians in the military). Clinton has
> promised to endorse both of these. (I love having a Democrat in the White
> House!) =)
>
> Derrick Field
> dfield@ithaca
>
	Could someone tell me exactly what the nature of the referendum
in Colorado was?  The papers here were unclear about it, only saying
that it was an anti-gay referendum.
					Robert Head
					rhead@s850.mwc.edu
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