From: sch@unx.sas.com (Steve Holzworth)
Subject: Re: Gun control and abortion - getting deeper
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:05:25 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.

infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew  Infante) writes:

>Most women (and I would think this is _very_ close to _all_ women) do
>NOT need an additional 24 hours to think about the decision for abortion.

Why not? (playing devil's advocate).

Pro-lifers would argue that they "need" a cooling-off period, to be
"sure" they really want to go through with it. Sounds amazingly like
gun control legislation, doesn't it.

>Why does someone NEED a gun immediately, except to do some damage.

How about to save their ass from an immediate threat.

1) If I decide I want to go buy a gun, why should I have to wait? What
does NEED have to do with anything? Why do you NEED a new car tonight.
Couldn't you just wait a day (or week) or so? Maybe you should have to 
wait 24 hours to be REALLY SURE that you want to get a car. Besides,
you might accidentally (or intentionally) go kill someone with it.

2) In Florida, when a stalker was running around the university killing
people, it was reasonable to argue that people (mostly women) there DID
NEED protection. In this case, that meant guns. (Most gun stores were 
offering training to the new owners - highly recommended if you don't 
know much about guns). 

3) What about people in the LA riots? Lots of store owners probably wished 
they had had the forethought of many others that purchased guns to defend 
their businesses. The police OBVIOUSLY weren't doing it. BY LAW, the police 
ARE NOT REQUIRED to defend you. Case law exists on this very point. 
(Specifically, the woman who was raped and beaten to death in NYC, while 
the police failed (repeatedly) to respond to cries for help.) What about 
people in the assorted hurricanes this year who had to protect themselves 
and their property from looters? Everyone has the RIGHT to defend themselves;
in this day and age, guns are the best equalizer (know how and when to
use them). Criminals sure as hell don't have trouble getting them into
the country.  Don't take them away from the known law-abiding citizens.

I, personally, wouldn't mind seeing people have to take a REASONABLE
proficiency test for a handgun license (with a reasonable fee, equivalent
to driver's license), provided that the license be revokable only upon
felony conviction, or court-ruled mental incompetence. Further, said
license should be FEDERALLY mandated, and supercede all stricter state 
regulations regarding ownership/carry. States (such as Florida) could have
looser restrictions (like their current concealed carry rights) if the
individual posesses the federal license.

I don't own a handgun. I do shoot them occassionally at commercial ranges.
I DO own a shotgun, and (used to) shoot trap alot. I've also trained
in martial arts for twelve years. That's great in hand to hand. It's
not very effective against guns, and is not a practical solution, in
any case, for most people. "Sure miss, your ex has threatened to beat
you up, but sorry, you can't buy an evil/nasty/baby-killing/SEMI-AUTOMATIC/
ASSAULT/war/death/kill/kill handgun to defend yourself. We'll be glad
to arrest him AFTER he beats hell out of you, then you can file assault
charges *. Besides, that court-order you got will keep him away..." (Yeah,
right).

* N.C. recently passed "stalker" legislation, so it's not quite that bad
here anymore. But it IS that bad elsewhere.

>Women should (and will!) be allowed to have control over their own 
>bodies.  The government should not have anything do do with it.

Why is it that the trend lately is "all activities are banned that
we don't specifically give to you". It used to be the other way
around. I'm a great believer in individual rights, with the associated
requirement for personal responsibility. Lock me up if I shoot somebody
(without legal justification). Don't ban guns on the premise that I
MIGHT shoot somebody.

>Period.

Exclamation point.

>later.

>andy
--
Steve Holzworth
sch@unx.sas.com
x6872
SAS Institute - Open Systems R & D
Cary, N.C.