HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: 4 Recommended Novels
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 00:58:44 GMT

 
Rosemary Waigh, who is not yet able to post on the net, 
has agreed to allow me to post on her behalf this very good 
suggestion of the following pro-animal novel.  
 
I hope some others would list some of their favorite books 
on this topic.  I know that I would like to know of some 
more good novels or short stories where the creative writer
perceptively and sensitively adopts the animal's perspective.
 
                                                  ted
 
 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Another good one is _The_Plague_Dogs_, by Richard Adams (author of
_Watership_Down_).  Summary from back cover:
 
        Two dogs escape from an experimental research station in the
        Lake District, where they have been horribly tortured and
        mistreated in the name of science.  As they run for their
        lives on the hard fells they attempt to survive wild and free.
 
        But the hunt is on...
 
Adams's books are among the most beautifully written I have read.  Despite
the depressing subject, _The_Plague_Dogs_ has a happy ending (well, as
happy as it can be considering the permanent injuries inflicted on the
dogs).
 
The following excerpt describes the drowning experiment Rowf is 
subjected to:
 
     The large mongrel dog in the tank was continuing to struggle with its
     front paws, but so feebly now that its body, from neck to rump, hung
     almost vertically in the water.  The spaniel-like ears were outspread,
     floating on either side of the head like wings, but the eyes were
     submerged and only the black, delicately-lyrated nose broke the surface.
     As Mr Powell watched, this too went under, rose again for an instant and
     then sank. ... Dr Boycott clicked the stop-watch. ... Then, allowing for
     the refraction with the skill of a certain amount of practice, 
     [Mr Powell] plunged in the crook, engaged the dog's collar and began to
     drag it to the surface.  After a moment, however, he faltered, dropped
     the crook and stood up, wincing, while the body subsided once more to
     the floor of the tank.
 
     'Christ, it's heavy,' he said.  'Oh, no, chief, I don't mean it's any
     heavier than usual, of course, only I pulled a muscle in my wrist last
     night and it's been giving me a spot of gyppo.  Never mind, never say
     die, here goes.'
 
     'I'm sorry,' said Dr Boycott.  'Let me help you.  I wouldn't want you
     to suffer avoidably.'
 
Adams points out in the introduction that while the characters are fictitious,
all the experiments described in the book have actually been carried out.
 
                                                       Rosemary
 
Rosemary Waigh             Undergraduate, Computer Science / Linguistics
g9rwaigh@cdf.utoronto.ca   University of Toronto
 
              Veganism -- the compassionate lifestyle!
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Question
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:09:49 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Ted Wagner) wrote:
> Due to a resent blood test, I need to back off of foods high in cholesteral
> and fat, and eat high fiber foods.
> I thought about eating vegetarian.  BUT, a lot of dishes I know that are
> vegetarian have cheese....and cheese is high in fat.

You need a vegan cookbook; there are lots of good ones available now, just
look round a bookstore.  Vegan food is vegetarian food containing no animal
products at all.  You will probably need to lower your saturated fat intake
as well; unless you go crazy on nuts and palm oil, this shouldn't be
difficult with a mostly-vegan diet.  You probably need more information
than one or two net postings can provide - trying to cook vegan when all
you can do is boil beans gets rather depressing.  It doesn't have to be
like that.


> Also, if I go vegetarian, how important is this amino acid thing and protein
> thing everyone warns against out here in cow land?
> I know protein is important, but how important are the amino acids?  Which
> ones do I need?  Don't have to worry about?  etc.

They do matter, but with a reasonably varied diet you shouldn't have to
plan your amino intake consciously.  Roughly, try to eat a balance of
legumes (beans, peas, peanuts, tofu) and cereals (wheat, rice, oats,
barley, rye, corn) in any form; they have different proportions of amino
acids which add up to a good mix between them.  Most of the world's people
have eaten this way for thousands of years with only occasional animal
products in their diet, so it can't be too far wrong.  Frances Moore Lappe
has a book called "Diet for a Small Planet" that goes into this issue; the
first edition overstated the problem suggesting that you had to eat a
balance of amino acids at every meal - now it seems that it's OK if they
balance out over days, so there's even less to worry about.  The main point
to bear in mind is that the meat-industry slogans about "first-class"
proteins are derived from antiquated science that was never very convincing
to begin with.

Solving this one for a vegan is *much* easier than trying to get a good
vitamin/mineral intake on a typical sugar- and animal-based junkfood diet.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: jereese@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jean reese)
Subject: Re: questionaire on reasons to be veggie
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:10:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.211753.9688@uoft02.utoledo.edu> vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>
>	Old timers on rec.food.veg may remember that one Ms. Meg Cawley has
>	done a survey like the one proposed above and posted the results on
>	the net. I have saved the survey results in my personal archives. I
>	have sent a copy to Andrew via Email, but if anyone is interested, I
>	can post it on the net or send via Email to individuals (if the no.
>	of requests are small enough). Remember that the file is 700+ lines
>	long, so I hesitate a bit to repost it.
>
>	Siva Prasad.				vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu


I would be interested in seeing it posted. I'm new to the group and don't
know how to request by email yet (although you could send it to me if
you want)! jereese@ucs.indiana.edu

Jean

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: bader@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu (Joel Bader)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Famous Vegetarians
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:25:29 GMT
Distribution: rec.food.veg
Organization: Center for Biomolecular Simulation, Department of Chemistry,
	Columbia University

Isn't track star Carl Lewis vegetarian?
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: nutruitional breakdown of foods table
Keywords: information wanted
Date: 30 Aug 92 05:05:06 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <Btrp32.H3C@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca> ejdavies@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Davies) writes:
>I've seen people post files giving the iron content of
>various foods, and the recently the calcium content, but
>I haven't seen a document that did a complete job. Ie,
> covered iron, calcium, various vitamins, fat, etc.

There are books with this info in them.

>I have seen one in the back of a Laurel's Kitchen, but
>paying $30CAN seems a bit much just to get those pages 
>from the back. Anybody aware of a file ftp from someplace
>with this info?

For US $16.50 (this was a few years ago), you can get one of the bibles
of nutrition science: Bowes & Church's _Food Values of Portions Commonly
Used_, 14th edition, revised by Pennington and Church, published by
Lippincott.  There might also be USDA or Agriculture Canada publications
available if you root around.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian foods with all necessary amino acids?
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 21:48:35 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland
Distribution: usa

Mexicans solve the problem by eating dried beans and rice together or by
eating dried beans and corn together.

Jane Brody's Nutrition Book gives a nice discussion of how to
complement proteins in vegetarian books. Though it is now several
years old, it's still a great reference.
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: vegan sources: B12, D3 and iron
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:03:49 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

Query:  does anyone know of good vegan sources of vitamin B12?
Vitamin D?  Iron?

I know Maypo oatmeal and grapenut cereal in the U.S. are fortified
with B12 and iron.

I'm aware I can take supplements for all three, but I've noticed many
B12 supplement pills have something like 8-100 times what you really
need per day.  Isn't too *much* B12 supposed to be bad for you?

Thanks to all who can help.
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Request for Soup Cookbook
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:48:28 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Aug28.171030.29055@nntp.uoregon.edu> nsax.uoregon 
(Norma Sax) writes:
>I'm looking for a good vegetarian soup cookbook. Any suggestions?

_Follow Your Heart's Vegetarian Soup Cookbook_ 
	Janice Cook Migliaccio
	Santa Barbara, CA: Woodbridge Press 1983 

This is not only the best cookbook on soup I've ever seen, it has 
an absolutely charming introductory essay on the philosophy of soup- 
making.  Every soup I've made from this book has been both delicious 
and beautiful to look at.  The book is 127 pages and cost something 
like $4 when Madhu bought it three years ago. 

Follow Your Heart is (or was) a vegetarian restaurant, run along the 
principles of a co-op, I believe. 

--Barbara
From: Christine_Code@mindlink.bc.ca (Christine Code)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: need zucchini chocolate cake recipe
Date: 1 Sep 92 05:22:47 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

The subject line says it all!   I've got a garden full of zucchini and I'd love
to make some of it into a zucchini chocolate cake.   Do any of you have a good
recipe?

...Christine

--

==========================================================================
Christine Code                 *  Searching for members and descendants
                               *  of these families: Code, Codd, Mudgett,
Vancouver, B.C, CANADA         *  Stewart, Tetlock, Sealy, Seely, and
Christine_Code@MindLink.bc.ca  *  Willows.
===========================================================
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Request for Soup Cookbook
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:00:39 GMT
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA

In article <1992Aug28.171030.29055@nntp.uoregon.edu> nsax.uoregon (Norma Sax) writes:
>I'm looking for a good vegetarian soup cookbook. Any suggestions?
>
I really like 'Hearty Vegetarian Soups & Stews" by Jeanne Marie Martin.
I'm not sure how widely available it is (I've only seen it at my health
food coop) so the publisher's address is:
		 Harbour Publishing
		 P.O. Box 219
		 Madeira Park, BC Canada V0N 2H0

It's mostly vegan, and besides recipes has chapters on soup ingredients, stock
preparation, substitute charts for [meat] soup recipes, and other useful
information.

Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: an idea
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 02:03:43 GMT

Rich Young writes:
 
>      I am answering in e-mail...which,
>        based on "ted's" last posting, will end up here anyway...an incredibly
>        rude, but totally predictable, behavior.  I have asked "ted" to go
>        to e-mail twice and he inexplicably continues to refuse to do it.
[. . .]
 
The rudeness, Rich, is on your part since after all it was you and
not me who resorted to insulting a fellow vegetarian as "just another
raving zealot".
 
Now, I've already explained that e-mail is a waste of time when you 
so freely abuse it by your name-calling and insults.  Indeed, when 
e-mail is abused by the sending of such destructive insults, you simply
forfeit the usual courtesies that readers like myself would afford 
towards a responsible and civil sender.  
 
If a person is going to misuse e-mail to send hurtful insults like
"stupid", "fanatic", "raving zealot", etc, then I think one way we 
can help wean people who are this abusive and would resort to this
cowardly sending of hate-mail is to post for all to see some of these 
remarks so that others may also see for themselves the kind of 
person that would here falsely and disingenuously proclaimed themselves 
to have no animus towards "vegetarians of any stripe" and to be
an objective critic..
 
The rudeness, Rich, is on your part since after all it was you and
not me who resorted to insulting a person as "just another 
raving zealot".
 
Again, I entreaty you to come down from your beefcow and make a
simple apology to Dave McWade for calling him a liar and to apologized
to the person you called a "raving zealot".  In this way, I think,
we can best clear the air and move on to more constructive postings
of information relevant to vegetarianism for vegetarians who here
wish to advance their practice, commitment or understanding of
vegetarianism.
 
                                                 ted
From: hans@Software.Mitel.COM (Hans Johnsen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Date: 28 Aug 92 12:21:05 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>No, if I make an outrageous claim, it is my responsibility
>to provide references for such a claim, especially if I'm
>asked.  I don't need to provide references for the world not
>being flat, nor will I.

I see. But what is 'outrageous'. Noone here believes they are making
outrageous claims. You believe some people are, and some other people
believe that you are. The same rules of evidence MUST be applied to
both sides of this arguement. Lets not forget that not too long ago
it was an 'outrageous' claim to some that the world was round. Einstein
believed that Quantum mechanics was an 'outrageous' theory.

What really gets me is that you seem to believe that you are being
totally objective here, which is a real laugh.
-- 
Take off all your clothes and walk down the street waving a machete
and firing an Uzi, and terrified citizens will phone the police and
report: "There's a naked person outside!" - Mike Nichols
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Public Statement.
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:49:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep1.134944.1604
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep1.112749.25257@pixel.kodak.com> young@serum.kodak.com writes:
>	I can't speak for Steve, but _I'm_ a registered Democrat.  If you'd
>	like to verify it, call the Monroe County Board of Elections.

Ditto.  It's a Democratic conspiracy, obviously.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: The problem of summer pets
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:11:54 GMT

This has nothing to do with vegetarian food, or rather very little.

In this country where I  live,  many  people take  pets for summer and
discard/abandon  them at the end of  summer. I  read  this in  a local
newspaper, on  the very  day I  found an  abandoned cat in  the common
kitchen, a few days back.

(I tried to feed the cat whatever I ate for lunch, but it did not take
much.  It  stayed hungry till  evening  when  it ate  more of the same
kind.  On the next day, it walked out and hasn't returned.)

Is this normal in many places or is it just the Finns who do this ?

With regards,


-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 04:06:15 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


ted mentions deaths due to colon cleaning (I don't much like the
pseudo-scientific "cleansing" equivocation, thought I have no position
on the subject itself). Apparently there are two enema methods--one
using gravity (the water is above your head), and another using a
pressure machine. The latter has caused at least one death in New York
State, in which a victim's colon was ruptured. I don't have any
details so I don't know if the machine was improperly operated or not.
In any case, New York outlawed colon cleaning as a result. I don't
think there was any issue about "effectiveness" entered into--"safe"
was enough.

Those I know who advocate colon cleaning via enema recommend against the
use of any but gravity flow machines since then.

David
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mwicks@eleceng.uct.ac.za (Matthew Wicks)
Subject: veg bodybuilding diet
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 07:52:31 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town

Has anyone got a vegetarian diet for body-building?
Or perhaps some tips.
Body building diets I have heard of consist of consuming
vast numbers of fowls and cows.
"Wickbat the Wicked"
Matthew Wicks
no fixed address
Elec Eng Department
University of Cape Town
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Subject: Re: an idea
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 19:07:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.100056.6287@iscsvax.uni.edu> howard@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

>In article <1992Aug27.120424.7945@pixel.kodak.com>, young@serum.kodak.com writes:
>> 	After having watched a number of postings in this vein go by, I 
>> 	cannot help but wonder why no one has suggested the use of rec.food.
>> 	recipes, a newsgroup moderated by Mary Howard, who is apparently
>> 	vegetarian, and a newsgroup which already exists with a format
>> 	which allows easy screening of recipes for dietary preference...also
>> 	a newsgroup which gets virtually no traffic.
>> 
>> 	PLEASE NOTE, I'm not making any suggestions one way or the other; I
>> 	was merely curious as to why such a suggestion had not been made...
>> 	even by Ms. Howard.
>> 
>
>Well, I'm actually a bit flattered. Does this mean someone actually
>likes my recipies?

   Well, as it turns out, I actually meant Mary SCHAFER, but that doesn't
   mean you shouldn't be pleased.  I DO like your recipes, especially the
   South American series (I hope I haven't confused Marys again).  I haven't
   tried them all, but I was in Ecuador a couple of years ago (actually more
   like "a few", now) and found them to be interesting.

   I "snarf" on a regular basis, not only for myself, but for friends who are
   either vegetarian or are looking for low-fat alternatives.  Hey, I don't
   much care whether a food is ethically correct as long as it tastes good,
   and I must say that the imagination and variety displayed in this group
   has been more than sufficient to keep me and my friends experimenting for
   years!  I have not posted many recipes here because it would be pointless
   of me to do so, but I have posted a few recipes from a vegetarian friend
   which are more appropriate to the purpose of the newsgroup.

   I'll take this opportunity to say that I have no enmity toward vegetarians
   of any stipe, and in fact agree that "less is better" is sound advice when
   it comes to dietary fat, especially saturated fat, but I do dislike
   promulgation of faulty information under the guise of fact and will offer
   corrections on those rare occasions when it seems to be the proper thing
   to do to prevent misconceptions or misinterpretations.  Even if I turn out
   to have been in error, perhaps some thought will have been stimulated.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Public Statement.
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 07:58:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


It's probably a bad idea for David McWade to complain about others
calling names and in the same breath calling the Republican Party "the
party of rich and greedy special interests." Some believe that labor
leaders and the heads of the educational bureaucracy are rich and
greedy special interests, and the Kennedy family is hardly
poverty-stricken.

I don't want to enter into an argument about the parties, just to
point out that such remarks tend to polarize just as much as
the remarks McWade complained of do.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 02:50:58 GMT

In article <osborn.714883195@dragon> osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn) writes:
>But the list includes also some amphetamine users (including heavy users of
>pseudo-ephidrine in flu OTC "remedies"). I don't know how many is "some".

I think fecal impaction is the least of any amphetamine user's worries.
Sympathomimetic amines like amphetamine have a mild effect on peristalsis,
but rarely so great as to cause constipation.  I'd be even less concerned
with pseudoephedrine.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: nuke@reed.edu (Bill Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Patrick Fergusson In St Andrews University
Date: 28 Aug 92 00:03:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug28.000351.18020
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <GRAVIL.92Aug27173410@piaf4.cern.ch> gravil@piaf4.cern.ch (Eric Gravil) writes:
>
>Hi,
>
>First of all excuse me to disturb your group with personnal problem.
>
>I am looking for vegetarian guy : Patrick Fergusson studying
>at St Andrews University in Scotland near Edimbourg.
>

Hey, this is rec.food.veg, not rec.dude.veg :-)

Seriously, I haven't a clue.

nuke
--
~/.oo
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: uad1214@dircon.co.uk (Peter Cox)
Subject: American Slaughterhouse Practices - Help Please!
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 00:19:25 GMT


One or two people may know that I'm currently writing the
new edition of "Why You Don't Need Meat".

I would very much like to hear from anyone who might be
able to provide me with some help concerning slaughterhouse
practices in the U.S. - not really from the hygienic point
of view, but from the humanitarian/ ethical.

If you've been eyewitness to anything less than humane, I'd
appreciate hearing from you.  Also, I'd appreciate knowing
what kind of regulations exist (federal/state) and how well
they're enforced.

Please e-mail.

Thanks.

-- 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                         Peter Cox