From: chaneysa@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu (Steve Chaney : Borg Operating Space Systems, Revision 2.0)
Subject: Attention!
Originator: chaneysa@nextnet
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:13:56 GMT


Attention all those who follow Chris Dicely's point of view:

A little history: When I went on my first pro-abort-bashing spree, I got a
whole lot of flak from a particularly confrontation-hating reader named
Chris Dicely.

Since then, I have engaged in serious flame wars with the various
flamelords - Susan Garvin, Mark Kaufman, PatricKKK Humphrey, and others -
trying to knock some elbow room into USENET for pro-lifers who want less
heat and more discussion. Perhaps if these bozos ran into flamelord
competition that was just as fierce and relentless as they are, they would
spend their time dealing with that problem, while leaving other pro-lifers
alone to pursue the more peaceful portions of discussion on this newsgroup.
Siren said I couldn't outflame this group, but in actuality, I matched and
surpassed them, and started becoming overwhelming, especially when I hit
the pro-aborts' nails on their heads.

And when that happened, my flames got nastier and they hit harder, and
hence, I began getting e-mail from ALL KINDS of folks. People who were
begging me to stop.

I have one final thing to say about these people.

Where were you when I and everyone else were all under attack and we were 
trying to avoid a flamefest, but were literally dragged into it?
Where were you when Dan Bredy was telling Suzanne Forgach to "play" with
the family dog? 
Where are you NOW, when Suzanne Forgach takes constant and brutal attacks
from pro-aborts?
Where are you NOW, as they concentrate on Doug Holtsinger?
Who was there for Conrad Vincent? Besides me, that is.

I didn't see very much help for Kevin Welch, either.


It finally took Nazi's like Mark Kaufman and Klansmen like PatricKKK
Humphrey, with their bigoted statements, for you to wake up and smell the
coffee: these punks want war and that's how they treat talk.abortion. 

Who are you to complain when someone like me, comes loaded for bear, for a
counterattack? What cracks me up, is that Chris Dicely flamed ME for giving
the pro-aborts HELL, and then they stabbed him in the back. Repeatedly. I
don't know why he is gone now - maybe it was because he couldn't stand the
heat, maybe it was because his access expired, maybe he got bored, or
whatever. But many other pro-lifers, some who have e-mailed me on the
issue, felt compelled to leave because the flames were too hot for them.

Perhaps if they had a little friendly cover fire to protect them, they
would have felt more comfortable. The pro-aborts on USENET cover their
friendly troops relentlessly against counterarguments, using flamethrowers
galore to keep their position secure.

Pro-lifers? I work hard to stifle laughter. I have never seen so large a
collection of people unwilling to protect their own dignity and
that of their allies, from these outrageous flamefests. Instead, all I see,
when pro-lifers do put up some defense for their comrades, is a Chris
Dicely telling us we're too hot for our own good.
What history ought to be screaming at you, is that while you're telling me
to cool off, the pro-aborts are flaming your hide off, smugly assured that
your time has been sufficiently divided between refuting logic, or the
lack of it, and protecting your dignity. 

These assholes are predators who'll go after each other at the snap of a
finger. They blew that poor guy Dennis so far off of USENET, and then came
up with this long, outrageous story about how he was actually ME. (Then,
they said I was Conrad Vincent, but that took a lot less time to fail.)
Why? DON'T ASK ME - ask the folks who blew Siren off the net because she
was peace-minded, and like Dennis, pissed the pro-aborts off. James Keegan
rose to the bottom of this Sludge and attacked Elizabeth Bartley, and
helped start a war over what "pro-choice" is. "Achtung! Your Goose Step is
not high enough!"

They have extremely double-standards. They scream Anti-Semitism whenever
the wind blows the wrong way, yet when Mark Kaufman and others make their
anti-religious statements which are just as bad as any Anti-Semitic
statement, the pro-aborts look the other way and try harder than hell, to
justify it. I thought for a while that they would ignore PatricKKK
Humphrey's racist comment, then a crack appeared in the big pro-abortion
USENET Iron Curtain, on that issue. But with Mark Kaufman, we saw for
a week and longer, their efforts to try and justify him. 
Hell, they took Kevin Darcy and created a newsgroup named after him, just
to have a newsgroup dedicated solely to kicking his ass. All because Kevin
Darcy doesn't have his GOOSE STEP down right (or at all).

That could very well happen to you, too. These people are relentless and
they don't give a hoot whose toes they step on, OBVIOUSLY.

And look what they started in on Tom Boutell with - he decides to run my
comments on abortion, and I'll be damned - they slammed him like nobody's
business, and as Susan Garvin said, they would not dare contribute to a
publication that ran my stuff. VOICE is supposed to be an even-handed
magazine, yet these idiots go into Cranial Overload when they find out I've
put an article in it. (Tom Boutell, however, being the Homey Don't Play
That man that he is, reminded them up-front that such an attitude is like
not voting at a booth because a Bush supporter might have voted there
before...)

And if you don't think a flame war can affect people and drive them away,
look at what happened on alt.birthright. Some punk named Wayne Smith posted
an article saying he was looking to flame some anti-abortionists, and I
responded. Not only did he back down, but in a short time, he was gone.
Just like that. Some guy named Douglas, came up and told me that I was a
man intruding into a female issue, challenging ME to a flamewar; I blasted
him so hard that he, too, disappeared, for quite a while. In fact, I
blasted people on alt.birthright with the same fierceness that the
pro-aborts employ here on talk.abortion, and I saw more vanishing acts
within 3 weeks than anything I've seen before. I had to resort to running a
massive "shameless attack on pro-choicers in general" to drag the rest out
of the woodwork, and finally I had a challenge!

But the lesson is, ferocity does scare people off for quite a while.
Doubtlessly, these guys are back onto alt.birthright now, but they sure
weren't on shortly after I came calling.
And with 20 pro-aborts doing the exact same thing I did on alt.birthright,
you bet there is considerable pressure for pro-lifers to just dump the
talk.abortion newsgroup for the sake of peace of mind.


So, boys and girls, if you don't want to respond to flames, fine. But think
about those other pro-lifers who are being flamed relentlessly just because
they're here, and who then leave because they don't feel like taking the
verbal abuse anymore. If you had helped defend them, we would have a 1-1
ratio on this newsgroup, right now. We have had more pro-lifers come and go
on USENET, than there are currently pro-aborts on it. Most pro-aborts,
however, come and STAY. Like cockroaches - once they arrive, you can never
get rid of them.

You yourself have helped create a situation on talk.abortion where you are
being swamped by the pro-aborts. If everyone responded to pro-abortion
flamefests like Steve Franklin did to Lefty, the pro-aborts would either be
scared off of USENET, or would be more inclined to shape up and calm down,
for some real sensible discussions, and we would not NEED to bash anyone, 
anymore. 

Pro-aborts only know the language of power and strength. When it comes
back against them, they cower and run for cover. When they use it and
we don't respond equally, they pile all over you and they never let
up. They eventually corner you and do a Kevin Darcy or Kevin Welch,
and they'll even savage each other. Yeah, folks, these pro-aborts will
slit EACH OTHERS' THROATS. It takes folks like ME, to catch them with
their pants down, so that they have to spend more time falling all
over themselves and trying to cover up for their own fuck-ups, so
other pro-lifers can state their point in relative peace. And really,
Doug H., Steve F. and I, seem to have cultivated an art out of this
strategy. :) 
 
So the next time you come onto talk.abortion and you see 20 pro-aborts and
5 pro-lifers, and you are crying about how few pro-lifers there are, don't
go whining about it. Remember all those complaints you e-mailed to me about
my efforts to lay down some cover fire to prevent those 15 other pro-lifers
from being swamped off the newsgroup - an effort you could have, though
less intensely, joined in.
At least Steve Franklin, Doug Holtsinger, Suzanne Forgach, Peter Nyikos and
I have the guts to take it to them instead of taking it in the ass.


=============================================================================
>##       "My logic is based on ... a religious perspective which says
>##  that personhood begins at birth (actually a month after birth if
>##  we want to be precise)..."
>##    -- Gloria Feldt,
>##       chief executive, Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona

>##   "I see nothing extreme or reprehensible about this statement."
>##     -- garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) <BtnDAw.Iwo.2@cs.cmu.edu>
=============================================================================
|Pro-Contraception   Pro-Freedom of Religion, Speech & Sexual Orientation   |
|Pro-Privacy    Pro-Humanism   Pro-Freedom of Choice 	Registered Democrat | 
|                                                                           |
|			Card-carrying member, NRLC                          |
|           Dedicated to achieving civil rights for the unborn              |
=============================================================================
BBBBBB     OOOOOOOO   SSSSSSS   SSSSSSS    Founder: Steve Chaney 
B    B     O      O   S         S          <chaneysa@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu> 
BBBBBBBB   O     OO   SSSSSSS   SSSSSSS    
BB     B   O     OO        SS        SS    Borg Operating 
BBBBBBBB O OOOOOOOO O SSSSSSS O SSSSSSS O  Space Systems, Revision 2.0 

	       The B.O.S.S. does not speak for CSUS. 
Newsgroups: talk.abortion