From: cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Honda?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 01:03:24 GMT

larsen@hellgate.utah.edu (Steve Larsen) writes:

>bigdave@texas.tdd.sj.nec.com (David Sweeney  x2987) writes:
>: cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman) writes:
>: >Isn't the trap that is being talked about the fireball, roundhouse
>: >sweep trap? I think it's out of range of any of Honda's attacks, so
>: >you CAN'T get out of it if Ryu times it right. It also works on
>: >Blanka I believe, and is similar to the Guile backfist "trap" on
>: >the classic.

>  Actually, it is the fireball/roundhouse trap that originally started this
>thread, and (to Crying Freeman), it is NOT impossible to counter.

Ok, then HOW do you counter it? I'm talking about that range where
Ryu is far enough that he is far enough away that he cannot be swept
through his fireball, and where he keeps this range... (Ryu can dictate
range far better than Honda because of his fast fireball release.)

Thus if you jump forward, you get swept. If you just jump straight
up, you don't gain anything. How do you approach Ryu? Just curious,
I personally don't really find playing Honda especially exciting, but
I'm curious to see how you get out of this trap...


>: 
>: That's not the trap they're referring to--they're talking about the 
>: fireball-fireball-DP trap.  Honda doesn't move fast enough to get out 
>: of it--I've anticipated Ryu's fireball with Honda and jumped BEFORE the
>: fireball came out only to get DP'd anyway.  A good Ryu can make that
>: trap unbeatable against Honda.
>: 
>: On a related note, Mr. Freeman mentioned that Ryu's fireball/roundhouse sweep
>: pattern works on Blanka.  I got absolutely demolished by a guy doing that
>: last night.  In the past, I've always been able to counter it, mainly by
>: varying my distances.  (Either I'd jump in out of range of his sweep and 
>: sweep him after he misses or jump in close enough to hit from the air.)
>: But this guy just killed me with it--I couldn't counter it more than 20% of
>: the time.  I just figured I needed more practice.  What's the verdict on this
>: one, anyway?  Can it not be countered, or am I just fucking up? 

If Ryu ranges it right and has really good timing, you will get swept
every time. Since you are in the air and he's on the ground (mobile)
he can control ranging... Thus you could get stuck in the pattern of
"roundhouse sweep, fireball, Blanka jumps over, roundhouse sweep, repeat
till Blanka is dead."

The best method to beat this trap would be to play "hiding" Blanka.
By this, I mean you have to get within the range where you can hit
Ryu when he throws a fireball. This is, of course, easier said than 
done... 

There are several ways to get in.

	Like you said, try to jump in out of the range of his sweep, and sweep
	him. Then, instead of immediately jumping in again, walk up to
	Ryu, just outside of his sweep range and just play reactive. If
	he sweeps, let him miss and sweep him, then wait again. If he
	fireballs, jump in and combo him.
 
>  I have really good luck countering with the fierce claws and the right
>distance.  Just the other night I was beating up on one of our best Ryu's
>who was trying to sweep me like this.  However, I am not sure enough to
>go so far as to say it will always work.

The key is distancing. If you jump in from a certain distance, Ryu can
step forward or back, and sweep you before you land.

>: 
>: On another note, I played around with Dhalsim's teleport last night quite a 
>: bit.  It has too long of a pause coming out of it for it to be that useful,
>: unless you do it just as your opponent does a lengthy special move.  Otherwise,
>: it's easy to hit Dhalsim when he reappears.
>: 
>: -- 
>: Dave Sweeney     bigdave@tdd.sj.nec.com
-- 
 Kenneth C. Wang	| University Of Illinois Champaign-Urbana	
 			| Internet: c-wang@uiuc.edu