HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cf036@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (G. Gary Preckshot)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Question about this Newsgroup
Date: 2 Jan 1993 06:03:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Without reopening wounds, Prof. Pollack is unaware that the
amount of flaming was mild compared to several other
controversies going on concurrently or slightly later on
news.groups.  Specifically, there was violent (and threats of
violence) controversy on rec.music.synth and soc.religion.islam...
Jim K. describes the issues well enough.  At this point, there
is no purpose in continuing them.  However, those who read this
thread will hopefully understand that all is not well in netland,
and that quite a few net admins know this.  None of this matters here, since we have finally got a real (and the
only) metalworking group.  It's high time.  Even though
some of us don't like the name, we'll manage.  Perhaps Prof.
Pollack can dredge up a little tolerance and permit his ire to
cool as well.

G.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: kamooni@pb2esac.uucp (Ken Moonitz)
Subject: Re: Cheap source for Air hardening tool steel
Organization: Pacific*Bell ESAC, Oakland, CA.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:52:11 GMT

In article <Bzo01o.J18@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu writes:
>In article <BzMu0K.Kzz@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini) writes:
>>I need a source for 7/8" air hardening tool steel.
>>The best price I've found is about $60/3' lengths,
>>which is _way_ too expensive.
>>
>
>	ok, let me try this one again, with a little more information:
>	I don't know what grade of tool steel I need, I was told
>	that 'air hardened tool steel' was what I needed for the task.
>	I'm trying to build some swaging dies that need to be able
>	to swage antimoinal lead, ~25Brinell. I 've been told that the
>	static pressures are about 50Kpsi. The other detail I omitted
>	is that what I need is 7/8" _round_ stock. 
>
>-Chris
>*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 

What you should be asking for is 7/8" "drill rod".  And yes $60.
is high.  KBC tools here in Calif has it for $16.70.... Ken
From: brianr@phred.UUCP (Brian Reese)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Butt Welder forsale
Date: 24 Dec 92 17:36:23 GMT
Reply-To: brianr@phred.UUCP (Brian Reese)
Distribution: na
Organization: o


---------------------------------------------------------------
This is posted for the company for which my wife works.  If you
are interested, call the numbers below.  Please do not reply to
my account.  And please don't post a flame about the price; 1)
I have no idea what this thing is worth; 2) I don't even care.
Thanx -BR
---------------------------------------------------------------

For sale: 15KVA Butt Welder

Specs:
	Throat depth: 2"
	Throat gap:   Adjustable to capacity; up to 1/2" round
	              or equivalent.
	Transformer:  Stryco 15KVA
	Functions:    Air operated; 110/220 volt input
	Electrodes &
	Grippers:     3/16" & 1/4" round
	Cycle time:   1-1/2 seconds for 20% mutual indentation
	              on 1/4" round rod.
	Height:       Approx. 40"
	Footprint:    Approx. 24" x 24"
	Weight:       Approx. 600lbs
	Manufacturer: L.A.D.D. Manufacturing & Equipment
	              Post Falls, Idaho
	              Jon Daub  (208) 773-2482

May be converted to a spot welder with kit from manufacturer.

Asking price: $4500

Located at Northwest Spring Manufacturing, Redmond, Washington.

Contact: Jorja Reese or Jim Jackson at (206) 861-8985

--
The usual disclaimer about having no affiliation with the above
parties applies, except of course that my wife works there.

-- 
Brian Reese                                 uunet!pilchuck!phred!brianr
Physio-Control Corp., Redmond, Wa.                    brianr@phred.UUCP
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains excite me!"
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Subject: Looking for SKF
Reply-To: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:15:18 GMT


Does anyone know the US distributor for SKF
machine tools? I'm looking for a 15mm x 1mm thread pitch
taper and plug tap. They supposidly have it in stock.

-c
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: "Gary A. Woodward" <p00140@psilink.com>
Subject: source for fractional hp 2 stroke gas motors
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:58:57 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

Does anyone have a name of a cataloz for weed eater motors?

Regards

Gary

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: kamooni@pb2esac.uucp (Ken Moonitz)
Subject: Re: Cheap source for Air hardening tool steel
Organization: Pacific*Bell ESAC, Oakland, CA.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:52:06 GMT

In article <BzoH8r.2M6@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.195211.28944@pb2esac.uucp>, kamooni@pb2esac.uucp (Ken Moonitz) writes:
>>In article <Bzo01o.J18@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu writes:
>>What you should be asking for is 7/8" "drill rod".  And yes $60.
>>is high.  KBC tools here in Calif has it for $16.70.... Ken
>
>
>	Could you get me a phone number for KBC? I tried to send
>	email but it bounced. If ayone else knows of places in the chicago area
>	that would have that kind of stuff, I'm dying to know. Most
>	of the places one finds in the yellow pages are not really
>	oriented to machine shop supply. 
>>
>*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 

KBC- Michigan 1800-521-1740
From: yoshi@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (D M Yoshikami)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Oriental Gong from Sheet Steel
Summary: Crunch!!
Date: 24 Dec 92 13:48:59 GMT
Organization: National Naval Medical Center

In article <1992Dec23.174417.27904@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> caastanl@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Alan Stanley) writes:
>You may have to periodically anneal the metal, but with mild steel this      
>usually isn't much of an issue.  When your gong is finished you'd probably    
>get a better tone if you heated the whole thing up to a dull cherry red and   
>quenched it in water.  You don't get a lot of hardening from mild steel, but  
>you get enough to change the tone.  I make hundreds of ringing triangles      
>every year and I find I get a much cleaner tone by heating all the corners    
>and quenching.  (I bend them cold so the process isn't automatically part of  
>the fabrication process.)

If I remember correctly, large flat surfaces (such as Gongs) like to
warp when you throw them in the quenching baths.  This can be
obnoxious on things such as saws, and even things like swords and long
knives.  Now there is a way to get around this problem, but I don't
remember off the top of my head, as I don't make knives, swords, or large
flat objects of that type.  A smith can, of course, heat it up
again, but you want to make something using the least number of heats
as possible.  Often, a smith might use brine or oil to quench
something; in fact, a Turkish knifemaker (who made some really nice
knives) said that they put spices and aromatic barks in the oil, and
although he admitted that they didn't make much of a difference, it
was an old family tradition to put different spices depending on what
they were making, some combinations, of course, being secret.

Quite often, tamtams have to be "warmed up" when you play them
(i.e. you hit them on the edges to get it vibrating before you smash it)
or the smash sound will come 2 to 4 seconds after you hit it.  Just make
sure you use heavy enough metal so that it doesn't sound too tinny.

DY :-)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
D M Yoshikami  :-) ;-) :-) | Internet: yoshikami@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil
     +1 (301) 295-3304     | Bitnet  : yoshikami@usuhsb.bitnet
***  !!xob X*NU V METSYS T&TA eht ni renosirp dleh gnieb m`I  !pleH  !pleH  ***
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: kopfj@bert.Tymnet.COM (John Kopf,D,6305)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: photo lithography of plates
Date: 25 Dec 92 00:23:21 GMT
Reply-To: kopfj@bert.Tymnet.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

Check out your local hobby shop...there is a book available on photoetching thin
metal to make parts for models.  I can't remember the title/author, but the hobby
shop manager can probably point you in the right direction.

John Kopf
From: Eric Kasten
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Green copper
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:17:44 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.cl.msu.edu

Ok, here's a question for you folks.  Sometimes on copper metal	
sculptures you'll find a finish which is sort of a rough green
substance (maybe somesort of copper oxide?)  The question is:	
just what is this finish, and just how is it created?  
Thanks for any info!
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: xslkkk@oryx.com (kenneth k konvicka)
Subject: Oriental Gong from Sheet Steel
Organization: Oryx Energy, Dallas, Texas.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 04:41:57 GMT

Know of any reference books on forming sheet metal by hand?
I'm trying to hammer out a gong, shaped sort of like a large
beer bottle cap, except 2ft diameter.  The blank is 0.035" thick
steel.  Problem is the edge keeps wrinkling as I pound it down.

Can't afford the 250 bucks the metalspinning shop wants for retooling
to make it for me.  Any suggestions?

Glad to see so many postings in this new group so quickly.

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays)
Subject: Re: Bench-top finishing
Organization: Intel Supercomputer Systems Division
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:14:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.162644.380@news.uwyo.edu>, jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu writes:

|> But I'm not sure how to finish the top (or bottom).  One method is to
|> occasionally apply an oil or oil finish.  The other is to seal the thing
|> up tight with a clear varnish.  I'd like to keep it sealed against stains
|> caused by cutting fluid drips, and so on.  But in Wyoming, there is a more
|> insidious threat:  the humidity is so low, especially in winter (15 to 20
|> percent most of the time), that butcher-block tables often split apart
|> because the wood dries out.

Having seen the other followups, I have one further suggestion:

epoxy

I use Brownells' "AcraGlass" epoxy, without the fiberglass flocking, to
seal gunstocks and grips *totally* from the effects of water and humidity.

It is impervious to oils and greases and every solvent I've tried, and you can
repair it with itself if it gets dinged or gouged.

Doesn't look half bad, either.

Cleanup is with vinegar(!).

Brownells is in Montezuma, Iowa, and their number is (515) 623-5401.  They are
very good at answering technical questions about their products over the phone.

Acraglass is also one of the best epoxies I've seen for general use, as well, so
if you need to mount any special bits on your bench, it'll work for that, too.

-- 
Kirk Hays - NRA Life.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing."  -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton)
Subject: Re: Need book on different metals
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:43:14 GMT

In article <1ha30qINN2cg@news.cerf.net> jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.203015.19688@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton) writes:
>>In article <wwebster-221292123630@47.220.4.59> wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) writes:
>>
>>For publications which take the slant of doing it at home, look for
>>British books and pamphlets, e.g. MAP (Model & Allied Publications).
>>
>>John Morton					University of California
>>jmorton@euler.berkeley.edu			Mechanical Engineering
>>{decvax,cbosgd}!ucbvax!euler!jmorton		Machine Shop
>
>I've heard of this place, and would like to get their catalog,
>do you have their address.
>
>Matthew Jones
>jonesm@cerf.net

MAP Publications are distributed by Argus Books Ltd., 14 St. James Rd.,
Watford, Herts., GB

A special favorite is _Foundrywork for the Amateur_, which describes
(among other things) how to build an iron-melting cupola furnace from
a 5 gal. can in your back yard.  They even tell you which beaches 
have the best moulding sand :-).

John Morton					University of California
jmorton@euler.berkeley.edu			Mechanical Engineering
{decvax,cbosgd}!ucbvax!euler!jmorton		Machine Shop
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: okunewck@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Phil OKunewick)
Subject: Re: Green copper
Organization: Random, at best
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:39:33 GMT

In article <1hal1oINNgur@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Eric Kasten writes:
>Ok, here's a question for you folks.  Sometimes on copper metal	
>sculptures you'll find a finish which is sort of a rough green
>substance (maybe somesort of copper oxide?)  The question is:	
>just what is this finish, and just how is it created?  

   It's likely a combination of substances.  Corrosion can take many
forms, depending on the corrosive agent.  Whatever free negative ions
are around will bind with the copper and form green, blue, or brown
substances.  Other colors may be possible, but not as common.

   Copper Ore comes in these colors.  Native copper (pure copper
mineral) is always found with a dull colored coating.  Copper nuggets
and crystals are cleaned in a solution to make them shiny, then sold
in rock shops.

   Copper is not a very inert substance; it corrodes easily.  How long
will a shiny penny stay shiny?  But the layer of corrosion insulates
the copper from further corrosion.  The same is true for several
non-ferrous metals, like lead, zinc, or aluminum.

   Copper oxide probably makes up a good part of the coating - copper
and oxygen.  Near salt water there's the potential for getting Cupric
Chloride into the mess, from the chloride ions in the "salt air".
Copper Sulphate could form if there's any sulphur around, like near a
hot spring, an old coal-burning industrial district, or on your
battery cables.  Whatever is around goes into the coating.

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Subject: Re: Oriental Gong from Sheet Steel
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 19:16:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec25.185159.15584@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> caastanl@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Alan Stanley) writes:
>In article <Bzrnpp.Ip@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil> yoshi@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (D M Yoshikami) writes:
>
>>
>>If I remember correctly, large flat surfaces (such as Gongs) like to
>>warp when you throw them in the quenching baths.  This can be
>>obnoxious on things such as saws, and even things like swords and long
>>knives. 
>
>I think in this case that the domed shape of the gong would be inherently
>stable enough to prevent serious warping, although a little cold setting
>might well be in order after the quenching process was complete.
>
>As for the heat itself - I don't know anyone who would have a forge large
>enough to heat an entire gong.  What I would do would be to build a good

Perhaps Zildjan?  :')
(Maybe even GM, Ford, or Chrysler....)

The original poster (whoever you are) might find a phone call to Zildjan
worth the effort, though.  Any music shop that sells percussion instruments
should be able to find a phone number for them.  If that fails, find
a professional percussionist who can at least refer you to a suitable
dealer.

My brother has been researching marimba bar design for a number of years,
and has found folks at Musser, Deagan, and other manufacturers quite
willing to talk to him, as long as the questions didn't get too close
to trade secrets.

My inclination, regarding tam tams, is that they are more likely
annealed after forming, and then work hardened during the finishing
process, rather than as an explicit heat treating step.  (In the grand
Usenet tradition, this opinion is purely speculative, based on no direct
experience, so take it as such.)
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
                Celebrate the winter holiday of your choice by
                  offering your hand to someone who needs it.
From: Bathsheba.Grossman@launchpad.unc.edu (Bathsheba Grossman)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Parts for Sherline Lathe
Date: 30 Dec 92 02:37:56 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <92364.191549JCEHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> JCEHC@CUNYVM.BITNET writes:
>     I have a miniature Sherline lathe, that I bought second hand.
>I would like to use it more except it needs some part.  

Two companies that sell the whole Sherline shebang are MSC and Micro-Mark;
you could use the Thomas Register or nag me to get you the addresses.  MSC
is a big machinist-supply house, and Micro-Mark specializes in miniature
tools, mostly for model-making - they're both fun catalogs.

I just got the Sherline mini-mill and am having a great time learning
about machining; my plan is to make small sculpture with it.  Now,
Sherline, what about the CNC retro-fit?

-Sheba  (student, UPenn Dept o'Fine Arts)

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: djt@merlin.caltech.edu (David Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Green copper
Date: 23 Dec 1992 19:20 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: merlin.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Hi All -

	My first post, thought I could help a little:

	I believe the green copper surface coat is a carbonate/sulfate as 
the last post indicated. As for how to get this done, try libraries or even
metal finishing businesses. There is a book put out by the metal finishing
industry called (more or less) "Metal Finishing Handbook" which lists recipies
for coloring/anodizing/plating etc. almost any metal you can think of. I ran 
into this book when I was trying to blacken some steel zither pins for a 
hammered dulcimer I was building (if you are interested, that one was boil
the pins in a VERY strong KOH solution with K2Cr2O7 added), which worked 
quite nicely. Fortunately I was woking in an analytical laboratory where we
did QC work for metal finishers/platers/circuit board mfgs. I'm not sure I 
could get a hold of this book myself, as I have been off that job for 5 years
now.

		Good Luck -- Dave Thompson
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Tuesday, 29 Dec 1992 19:15:49 EST
From: <JCEHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Parts for Sherline Lathe

     I have a miniature Sherline lathe, that I bought second hand.
I would like to use it more except it needs some part.  The self
centering three jaw chuck is broken (the teeth inside are sheared off.)
I also have been looking for a 0 Morse taper live center that will
fit in the tail stock.   Does anybody know of any parts suppliers
for this Sherline metal cutting lathe?

   I had hoped to find a Unimate lathe but was without success, so I
settled for the Sherline.  The Sherline is without screw cutting capability
but the instructions which came with it show an upgrade kit enabling
the lathe to cut screw threads.  This is something else I would like
to get, someday.


-------
MICHAEL F. GORDON
JCEHC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU






Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: neidorff@uicc.com (Bob Neidorff)
Subject: Lathe For Sale
Originator: neidorff@makore.uicc.com
Keywords: machine lathe for sale
Organization: Unitrode Integrated Circuits Corp., Merrimack, NH
Distribution: ne
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 18:24:41 GMT



I have a small Godell-Pratt metal lathe for sale.  This is a good tool
for small craft projects, but not up to the rigors of thread cutting
or heavy steel work.  It has a small two-jaw chuck, a tool post/compound,
1/3HP 115V single phase motor with belt-selected 15 speeds, and a tailstock
with center and 3-jaw drill chuck.  I have it bolted to a wooden bench,
made out of 2x4 stock and plywood.  The bench goes with it if you want it.
I also have a faceplate and dogs, and a tool rest for wood cutting tools.
The bed is a very rugged, large casting.  This will turn approx. 18" long
and 5" dia max.  (Those numbers are from memory, and may be slightly off).

$90.00.  You pick up in New Hampshire.

If interested, call me at work at the number in the signature, send E-Mail, 
or contact me after hours at:

	Robert Neidorff
	39 Stowell Road
	Bedford NH  03110
	603-472-2237

-- 
Bob Neidorff; Unitrode I. C. Corp.  |  Internet: neidorff@uicc.com
7 Continental Blvd.                 |  Voice   : (US) 603-424-2410
Merrimack, NH  03054-0399 USA       |  FAX     : (US) 603-424-3460
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: Re: Oriental Gong from Sheet Steel
Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 13:53:09 GMT

In article <Bzp3px.AGp@oryx.com>, xslkkk@oryx.com (kenneth k konvicka) writes:
|> Know of any reference books on forming sheet metal by hand?
|> I'm trying to hammer out a gong, shaped sort of like a large
|> beer bottle cap, except 2ft diameter.  The blank is 0.035" thick
|> steel.  Problem is the edge keeps wrinkling as I pound it down.
|> 
|> Can't afford the 250 bucks the metalspinning shop wants for retooling
|> to make it for me.  Any suggestions?
|> 
|> Glad to see so many postings in this new group so quickly.
|> 

For this type of shaping, I've found that the most useful references
are for silversmithing.  You just adapt the tools/techniques to using
thicker/tougher metal.  With this thickness of steel, you shouldn't have
too much trouble making an un-wrinkled edge.  Try for a smooth transition.
You basically have two options:

a) raising - placing the steel over a 'positive' form and hammering from
             the 'outside' of the gong down over the form
b) sinking (dishing) - placing the steel over a negative form and hammering
                       from the 'inside' of the gong down into the form.

I've found sinking to be easier than raising, but that may only be a function
of the sorts of things I've tried to make.  

Quick and dirty dishing: get a 1 lb ball pean hammer and edges of the  face
to form a smooth convex surface.  Take a tree stump, and use the newly ground
hammer to forcefully hammer a slight depression in the centre.  Now lay
your piece of steel over the depression and hammer into it to form the curved
edge of your gong (you may want to practice on some scrap pieces first).
Having a 'mushroom' stake over which you can planish the newly formed metal
would be nice, but may not be worth the investment for a 'one-off' piece.
If you know a wood turner, maybe you could get him to turn a mushroom shaped
stake out of hardwood that would last long enough to make your gong.  You
planish with a hammer that has a very slightly convex face (which makes it
less likely that you will marr the surface with the edge of the face should
a blow land at a slight angle) that has been polished.  By using many light
and closely spaced blows, you even out the curvature imparted by the dishing.
You should be able to impart the curvature in hot or cold rolled mild steel
without the need to annealing.

For heavy dishing, I use the bottom of an acetylene tank as a form and
a 4lb hammer with rawhide plugs. 


Cheers, Rick C.
From: Eric Kasten
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: re: Green Patina on Copper
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:14:22 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.cl.msu.edu

My original question certainly received a tremendous response!	
I thank you all for your suggestions, and as soon as I get a	
chance to try a few, I'll let you know how things work out.
Thanks again!		
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking