From: cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter)
Subject: Re: Premeditated Murder - Part 2  (was Re: No charges filed in SWAT killing
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:40:15 GMT

In article <4400217@iftccu.boeing.com>, bressler@iftccu.boeing.com
(Rick Bressler) writes:

> [...]
> >From: cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter)
> >In article <4400215@iftccu.boeing.com>, bressler@iftccu.boeing.com
> >(Rick Bressler) writes:
> 
> [...]
>
> Rick.  My name is Rick.....  It was right there in print....  I know, it
> was an honest typo....  Thank God, my life doesn't depend on your
> spelling....
> [...]
> Yeah, something as simple as typing an h as in Rich instead of Rick.
> That's about the amount of physical force needed to pull a trigger....

Hmmm... Interesting concept.  Fortunately, my computer keyboard is
not a lethal weapon, and dyslexia does not affect one's ability to 
handle firearms safely, and shoot straight.

> [...]
> What would you do?  Stand there and
> let yourself and the children be killed?  He still doesn't know if he
> fired in self defense, (intentionally) or reflexively.

I _never_ respond reflexively when handling firearms.

By responding reflexively, Tony could have just as easily have killed the
children he was to protect...  Very unwise.

> >I don't really care how "pumped" he was.  If he is unable to maintain
> >his cool, he shouldn't be there.  He can just stay in the car.  If an
> >officer in unable to perform his duty with competance, then he should
> >be removed from his office.
> 
> So, you think you could do better?

Perhaps, perhaps not.  I didn't choose that line of work, Tony did.

I am curious to know if Tony was trained as a member of the SWAT team.
If not, I want to know what he was doing there.

> You'd probably we your pants.  Have
> you ever been shot at?  Have you ever even had a gun pointed at you?
> Have you ever gone into a dark room where there were people that you
> expect to try to kill you or harm children?

I see... Somehow all this is relevant?  I make a habit of not shooting
any target I can't identify.  I believe SWAT teams are trained to do the
same.  Perhaps Tony wasn't trained for a SWAT team?

> Do you think police
> officers are somehow different than you?

Yes, in fact I do.  I suspect police officers chose a career in Law
Enforcement, instead of Physics.  I don't recall requiring them to
do so, however.

Killing those you were sent to protect does little to establish
credibility.  Failing to have a hearing, after killing those you
were sent to protect, destroys credibility.

> [...]
> We're dealing with people here, lets
> try to keep that in mind.  If you put people into situations where their
> split second decisions and reactions are matters of life and death
> people are going to die occasionally.

And if it happens to be an innocent bystander, oh well...  I find
this idea unacceptable.  The idea that you can sacrifice a few
innocent folks, to get the "bad guys".

> Does this mean we shouldn't even
> try?  Does this mean that we should reserve capital punishment for those
> who try their best and fail.

I didn't suggest capital punishment.  I suggested a criminal trial.
If the jury finds him not guilty, then fine.  But to merely wave it
off seems irresponsible.

> [...]
> Could you or should you be allowed to continue your job?  What
> if you had a family of your own to feed?  What if you had a 4 year old
> child?
> 
> Can you begin to understand?
> 
> >There are several places to lay the blame.  The officer should be charged
> >criminally.  If he gets less than "negligent homicide", I'd be surprised.
>  ^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Why? To satisfy your own sense of outrage?  What criminal act did he
> perform?

Did I say he performed a criminal act?  No.  I said he should be charged
_criminally_ (as opposed to a civil suit).  I find it highly suspect that,
after a killing of this nature, the case will never be heard.

Hell, the 4 officers involved in the Rodney King case were charged, should
this case somehow be less significant?  Is Rodney King being beaten more
important than someone being shot?

Can you begin to understand?

I would rather a thousand criminals walk the streets, than one innocent
person be killed in a police raid.  It may one day reach the point where
the Citizens of the US fear the police more than the criminals...  If
they don't already.

> [...]
>
> That is the one remaining thing that really bothers me.
> That unnamed individuals can give the legal system sufficient reason to
> issue such a warrant.  But what if this individual had come forward and
> allowed their name to have been used.  How would that have changed the
> situation?  Would it be 'all better?'  Not in my opinion.  I feel that
> this person is the one who should be charged.

Is this person known?  If so, I would say (s)he's in deep doo-doo.  This
does not relieve the police of their responsibilty, however.

> >I'd recommend the officer be tried on Negligent Homicide charges, and
> 
> Totally disagree.

I fail to see why you disagree.  Do you fear he won't receive a fair
trial?  If he is blameless, let him be found innocent by a jury...

> >Correct, but this does not relieve the officer of the fact that he
> >killed a person.  He should still be charged with negliegent homicide.
> 
> Our society generally does not punish or reduces punishment for
> unintentional acts.  This is the only point that I was really trying to

Except for things like Manslaughter, Negligent Homicide, Reckless
Endangerment...  Where our society *DOES* charge/punish persons for
unintentional acts.

> [...]

-- 
Charles Scripter   *   cescript@phy.mtu.edu
Dept of Physics, Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI 49931
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