HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: Marriage as Hell: Charlotte Perkins Gilman on TV
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:38:46 GMT

David Librik writes:
>The reaction of the literary-critical establishment to "The Yellow Wallpaper"
>is fascinating.  Ignored for some time except by the horror crowd (which
>means Lovecraft, initially -- it's not often realized how little there was
>before "Supernatural Horror in Literature"), TYW was seized on by feminist
>scholarship as a brilliant allegory of a woman's imprisonment in the shackles
>of conventional marriage ... but in the process, the overwhelming salient
>fact of the _supernatural horror_ was reasoned away.

Your comments are provocative, David.  I must admit that I, too, had
never seen anything supernatural in Gilman's tale--nor had I considered
that an overtly supernatural tale with a metaphorical subtext could be
argued to be more subtle than an overtly psychological tale.  I've
tended, for the most part, to think like Father Brown (of the Chesterton
tales), and search first for the non-supernatural explanation of a tale.
It's always been a puzzler to me that a supernatural vs. non-super-
natural distinction is often made for horror literature in used
bookstores.  And now--have you noticed this?--that bastion of splitter mania,
Blockbuster Videos, has undertaken to divide their horror movie section
into "horror" vs. "supernatural."  And with very little logic, too:
recently I found Vincent Price's priceless (sorry) "Theatre of Blood,"
a story of serial murders enacted according to Shakespearean texts,
categorized as a "supernatural" film.

What do you think is behind this trend?  Why are we (apparently) eager
to divide *fictional* events that are enormously unlikely but still
plausible in a purely material universe, from those that depend on the
existence of entities of a spiritual nature?  Is it just another example
of people wanting to reassure themselves--along the lines of "I don't
believe in ghosts, so this would never happen to me"?  This explanation
wouldn't gybe, though, with the feminist reconstruction you allege for "The
Yellow Wallpaper."  

Here's another way of pozing this riddle: why are you, David, so eager
to restore our awareness of the supernatural component in Gilman's tale?
Is there more to it than a desire to protect the subtlety of the writing
from a crudely politicized re-reading?  

(One last thought: Blockbuster Videos is run by Mormons, n'est-ce pas?
Maybe they find ghost stories blasphemous, but splatter films acceptable.)

						--curious Fi
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: elusive allusion
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:10:11 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <8SEP199212071841@zeus.tamu.edu>, spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:
# The same can be said (off the top of my head) for Harold Robbins and (in the
# cinema) Brian DePalma, both apparently not only sick and twisted individuals, 
# but closet woman-haters to boot.
# 
# There's something exculpatory about a guy who makes a big deal about how awful
# it is that people get taken apart by gardening equipment (or whatever) by
# psychopaths in fits of meaningless violence when said fellow's work is full
# of nothing but said meaningless violence, possibly with some meaningless
# sex thrown in for variety.
# 
# Or maybe that's just personal hangup of mine.
# 
# SubGenius

Oh no!  That just means that you don't appreciate fine art.  Doubtless
you are one of those anti-intellectual sorts that doesn't consider what 
the cultural elite does to be worth blubbering about.  Certainly, we
must watch you for signs of incipient fascism and censorship. :-)



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: calvo@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sherri Calvo)
Subject: Re: Ray Bradbury and American Airlines
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:40:00 GMT

In article <136156@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi) writes...
>In article <1992Sep11.142431.7698@athena.mit.edu> kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan) writes:
><Science fiction writer Ray Bradbury has joined the 
><staff of the American Airlines' in-flight magazine,
><American Way, as a contributing editor.
><
><All right, so Ray has a new job but didn't we just have a long thread
><on Ray and the immortal Asimov that brought up the fact that Ray
><doesn't fly?

>Actually, it seems that Ray Bradbury is simply taking Isaac Asimov's
>place.  :-)  Asimov wrote a column called "Change" for American Way for
>many years.  So I guess the editors long ago agreed to publish work
>by someone who is admittedly afraid to fly.
> 
>Ed
>ed@wente.llnl.gov

On the general subject of science fiction authors' preferred modes of 
transportation, I offer a quote from Arthur C. Clarke which may be of 
interest to the r.a.b.ble:

"For my own part, I steadfastly refuse to have anything to do with 
vehicles in which I cannot read when I am traveling."
                  -- Profiles of the Future
                  Arthur C. Clarke, 1963


Sherri

Sherri Chasin Calvo
calvo@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: evanh@sco.COM (Evan Hunt)
Subject: Re: Access to authors (was Re: Ota Benga - the pygmy in the zoo)
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:43:10 GMT


das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>In article <18dmeoINNbse@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> gxs11@po.CWRU.Edu (Gary Stonum) writes:

>>What a wonder:  immediate access to the author and at his
>>request no less!

>Terry Pratchett (British humorous fantasy author) is a regular contributor
>to alt.fan.pratchett.

GEnie has many groups about certain authors in which the authors participate.
Unfortunately, very little discussion about their work actually happens; it's
mainly just chat. I can't imagine why. ;-)

-- 
"This coffee is my blood, this breakfast burrito is my flesh.  And
 it cost me 89 cents, so get your goddamned own." - Jeff Lester, "Saint 11"
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The White Man's Burden of Proof
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:32:59 GMT



Fido writes:
 
        Mark Taranto writes:
 
                I do have a fancy title -- but it is usually associated with
                people who can not spell "potato."
 
        And, apparently, with people who cannot spell "cannot".
 
I often spell words incorrectly, but in this case I did not (didnot?).

My WEBSTER'S defines "Cannot" as "Can not."  I was taught that the space is
optional.  I'm surprised that Fido missed this, and wonder if it is due to
a shortcoming of his nanny, or to his public school.  For those interested
in looking it up, it might be of interest to note that it is on the same page
as "Canon."
 
Mark
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: news@enterprise.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Re: Androgyny & The Arts
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
cFrom: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 20:47:53 GMT

This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten)
Subject: Re: books to avoid
Summary: more blurbs
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:47:22 GMT

In article <88435@netnews.upenn.edu>, crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
> From article <9484@emory.mathcs.emory.edu>, by mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley):
> >> I long ago learnt to steer clear of books that were described 
> 
> "You'll laugh!  You'll cry!  You'll This!  You'll That!"
> 
> "A bawdy, lusty romp ..."
> 
> "A young man's sexual awakening ..."
> 
> "A young woman's sexual awakening ..." (written by a man)
> 
> "The sensitive story of ..."
> 
> "The (panoramic) (epic) (sweeping) tale of ..."
> 

All these are very true.  I've also learned to avoid the word
"funny".  I don't know why but any reviewer who uses that word
has no concept that funny, means you may actually laugh.  According
to Siskel and Ebert - "My Dinner with Andre" was funny.  According
to Tom Selleck (in a TV commericial), The National Review is 
"very funny".  I think this applies to books as well.

I also avoid "saga", "journey", "horrifying" (they never are),
and most of all "The story of 14 generations of an American
family". I don't know why, but the more generations they have
in a novel - the more alike they all are, like repeats.


marc colten
From: jjh00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: ... on Miss Manners (cough)
Summary: Manners not an all-inclusive topic
Keywords: boogers
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:48:16 GMT
Reply-To: jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


  jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu writes:
>
> My personal favourite Miss Manners column dealt with the problem of
> how to drink a long-necked beer.

My favorite went something like this:

   Dear Miss Manners:
      We all know that it's not polite to pick one's nose,
      yet it is often _neccessary_.  What is the proper
      etiquette for nose-picking?

   Gentle Reader:
      The customs of manners and etiquette govern the public
      behavior of polite persons.  What you do in private is
      none of Miss Manners' business.

---
Joel Hanes
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: frank@snooks.isri.unlv.edu (Frank Jenkins)
Subject: Lord Byron 
Reply-To: frank@snooks.isri.unlv.edu (Frank Jenkins)
Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 19:42:45 GMT

I am looking for a good, available biography of Lord Byron. Any suggestions?
From: wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Androgyny & The Arts
Date: 15 Sep 1992 07:07:44 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: madvax.maths.uwa.oz.au

Barbara Hlavin writes:


>[Infidel finds no merit in what I have to say about it.]
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

No: I find _little_ merit in what you had to say about it. 


>>In truth, she understands neither.

>You may be right.  What's your understanding of the term?



Here's a start:
		
1:  There is no difference between male consciousness and female consciousness. 
    (There is only consciousness.)

2:  The only genuine feelings are those to do with one's destiny.


(Androgyny is a term which coins the obvious.)


>--Barbara
 --Infidel







Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: books to avoid
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
	Meg Worley writes:
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:31:31 GMT


	It has now become necessary for me to avoid all books that contain
either of these adjectives: "essential" or "indispensable."

	Keith

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Morgan		      | Criticism is prejudice made plausible.
kamorgan@athena.mit.edu       |                          H.L. Mencken
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hopkins@agora.rain.com (Scott Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Books on Disc!
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:16:58 GMT

Naturally, the strain on the eyes from reading a monitor for a prolonged
period of time comes into effect.  However, we can remedy this by adding a
print-out feature, for those die-hard fans that don't mind wasting tons of
paper.  Or maybe print-outs of chapters, if you get tired to read the
screen.

The overall benefit of putting books on cd, would be the room.  We could
get several books from one author or mixtures.  There are several books out
there that want to be read, but are out of print and a real problem to
find.  Storing these books on disc would allow those people the opportunity
to read those novels.

It is true that there would be some downfalls.  No more smell of a new
book, no more feeling of accomplishment when you actually see how far along
are you, no more paper weight.  However, I think that the option should
exist for those that choose to go that route.  To each his own.

			-Casey Hopkins
hopkins@agora.rain.com
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The White Man's Burden of Proof
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:56:37 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <9209081832.AA10033@cfdev1.shearson.com> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:

>My WEBSTER'S defines "Cannot" as "Can not."  I was taught that the space is
>optional.  I'm surprised that Fido missed this, and wonder if it is due to
>a shortcoming of his nanny, or to his public school.  For those interested
>in looking it up, it might be of interest to note that it is on the same page
>as "Canon."

I trust that this circumstance does not make you feel that the words
in question qualify as an example of metonymy?


-- 
"But there is a limit to human patience; and of research, as of other
carnal pleasures, there cometh satiety at the last." 
                                                  --Bernard Berenson
 ...!cs.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!jzimm
From: cjh@tinton.ccur.com (Christopher J. Henrich)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Keywords: race canon
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:53:47 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp., Tinton Falls, NJ

In article <12139@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <67525@hydra.gatech.EDU>, barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:
>
>I post to rec.arts.books, where liberals attempt to defend the
>position that the ancient Greeks weren't white...

I can think of approximately three meanings of "white" that have
been used in the discussion of this "issue." (Why am I having
trouble counting up to three? Because two of the meanings are very
close to each other, and all of them are somewhat fuzzy.)

1. A "naive" meaning: Having little skin pigmentation;
"fair-complexioned" or "paleface" or "melanin-challenged".

2. The definition of "Caucasian" used by anthropologists.  This
includes features of pigmentation, bone structure, and probably a lot
of other things that I don't know about.  Pretty soon it may be
reformulated in terms of DNA sequences.

3. The social meaning of being "white" in the USA.  This meaning
cannot be discussed without reference to the social meaning of being
"black" in the USA; just as you can't define "Tuesday" without
mentioning the other days of the week.  Because this is a social
meaning, its reality consists, very largely, of how it is perceived.
Just to add to the fun, it is clear that different people perceive
it differently.

About the ancient Greeks: they were probably white in sense 1 (but I 
think they had spledid sun-tans, because Greece is a sunny country 
and they spent most of the day outdoors); I assume they were white in
sense 2; but they cannot have been white in sense 3, because they did
not share in the history of the "peculiar institution" of American
slavery.

There was slavery in Greece.  But it was not correlated with skin
color or other differences between anthropological races.  

There would have been a few "black" people in Greece, mainly visitors
from Africa.  They would, I suppose, have been regarded as outsiders,
foreigners.  ("Barbarian" means simply "one who does not speak our
language".)  A black man from the Sudan, a red-headed Celt, and a
blond Norseman would have been equally outsiders.

For a more pointed example: was William the Conqueror white?
YES! According to the first two definitions.  NO! According to the
third.  Shall I go flame at myself?

Ob. book refs.:
Poussaint, A. _Black Rage_
Baldwin, J. _The Fire Next Time_

Peace,

Chris Henrich
From: gxs11@po.CWRU.Edu (Gary Stonum)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Arthur Hugh Clough. Was: Re: I give up...
Date: 6 Sep 1992 19:48:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: gxs11@po.CWRU.Edu (Gary Stonum)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu

>
>>Arthur Hugh Clough was the only 20th century poet who had the misfortune
>>to be born in the early 19th century. 
>
>The other such poet being, of course, Hopkins.
>
>	Larry "What a wonder thing it is to have money, heigh ho" Hammer
>--
>
>LNH@albert.physics.arizona.edu   \  "People ought to fight for their law as
>The insane don't need disclaimers \  for a wall."  -- Heraclitus, #100
>

Wait a minute.  I'll plead guilty to Stupid Phonic Tricks with Clough's
name, but the guy's reputation as AAA ball--good field, no hit a major
league curve ball--is pretty much on the mark, unless one shares
with him an intense reaction to discovering that the 39 Articles
fudge things a bit.  Not to demean the poor guy's genuine (and
prolonged!) religious crisis, but what else but that and a
.247, 5 HR, 34 RBI facility with verse does he have going for
him?

My offense is at the pairing with Hopkins, who also had
a religious crisis but as a poet and for that matter a
perceiver and thinker reminds one of Roberto Clemente or
maybe Pete Reiser.  20th century all the way, as Larry
Hammer says.
-- 
      ||    Gary Lee Stonum                gxs11@po.cwru.edu    ||
      ||    English Department                  216-368-3342    ||
      ||    Case Western Reserve University                     ||
      ||    Cleveland, OH 44106-7117                            ||
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Ken Kesey's latest
Reply-To: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:28:05 GMT

Fido;

What makes you say Kesey is pond scum?

Erik Timmerman
From: jimh@pongo.Eng.Sun.COM (jim hori)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Chautauqua ? (Zen & the Art...)
Date: 11 Sep 1992 14:49:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: world, rec, usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: pongo

In article <1992Sep11.002017.17864@ccu.umanitoba.ca> feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld) writes:
>
>The word names a town; the town played host to a special kind of
>teaching: learning as a pleasure, the instruction provided largely, if
>not entirely, via popular lectures.

This is all true, however the word originates with the Iroquois,
from whom the above concepts were borrowed. They are also credited
with heavily influencing the concepts of democracy which guided
the founders of the United States of America.



....
jimh@west.sun.com

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re: books to avoid
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 21:04:06 GMT

Joann Zimmerman writes:
	
	But don't we all use exactly these phrases (and more) when
	enthusiastically posting here about books which we are attempting to
	summarize or characterize for readers of unknown tastes? The best
	example, of course, is "If you liked XXX, you'll like YYY."
	

I don't have a commercial interest in the books I recommend based on
my having enjoyed them for some reason or another.  The people who
put these thing on the book covers certainly do.  Many of them are
quotes from reviewers who may not have a commercial interest, but
I don't recall anyone posting about being turned off by phrases in
reviews.

Except me:  I still hate "for children of all ages".   :-)



William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Fowles' `The Collector'
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 23:59:53 GMT

In article <9209022028.AA29542@cfdev1.shearson.com> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
 
>The Narration of THE COLLECTOR is interesting.  It is written in the form
>of journals, and the contrast in style is done well.  What came through,
>for me, was how full the young woman's life was -- although she was held
>captive.

My take is somewhat different: I thought the first half of the book was
the setup for the young woman's half--in which we learn not that her life
was full, but that her reluctance to take the risk of commitment had left
her life emptier than it would have been. The young woman is the character
who truly interests the young writer Fowles--I'd go so far as to say that
his portrayal of her reflects some of his (then) ambivalence about women.
In any case, THE COLLECTOR, like all of Fowles's fiction up through THE
FRENCH LIEUTENANT'S WOMAN, is concerned with the consequences of
existential choices, or of failing to make them. In THE COLLECTOR, the
Collector himself is little more than a device.


--Mike





-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact 
mnemonic@eff.org| of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, 
(617) 864-0665  | both are transformed."
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Carl Jung 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: pvb@teal.csn.org (Phillips Bradford)
Subject: Ota Benga - the pygmy in the zoo [concerning the book]
Keywords: Ota Benga, pygmy, pigmy, africans, Verner
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 23:04:29 GMT


Notice of reviews on "Ota Benga -the pygmy in the zoo". This book is reviewed
in the New York Times Book Review, Sept.6, page 3. Also in Esquire, Sept. issue
page 88. Book is a true story concerning an African forest person who was put
on exhibit in the primate house at the Bronx Zoo in 1906. It may be of interest
to historians of the period, African-American scholars, sociologists, and
anthropologists. Your comments about this book and/or its reviews are invited.
I am one of the co-authors of this book.
-- 
Phillips V. Bradford, Sc.D.			office: (303) 620-4777
Executive Director				FAX: (303) 620-4789
Colorado Advanced Technology Institute		pvb@csn.org
1625 Broadway, Suite 700, Denver, CO 80202
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ks@cs.brown.edu (Kate Sanders)
Subject: Re: Used bookstores Providence, R.I.?
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 15:19:58 GMT

In article <11SEP92.16105701@jevex.waisman.wisc.edu> leavitt@jevex.waisman.wisc.edu writes:
>I will be in Providence in a few weeks and would
>appreciate recommendations on used-books stores there.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Lewis

Some good choices are:


Book Store, Murder by the Book, and Other Worlds. 1281 N. Main Street.
A variety of stores occupying the same space. Wide selection of used
science fiction and mysteries. 

Cellar Stories. 190 Mathewson Street, Providence. Good selection of
just about everything, cookbooks, childrens' books, history,
literature, science fiction, mysteries, you name it. Recently doubled
its space. Contrary to its name, it's on a second floor downtown, just
off of Weybosset. Can usually be spotted by a banner hanging from the
upstairs window.

Sewards' Folly, 139 Brook Street, Providence. Eclectic selection. At
about 15 years old, this is the longest-surviving of the used
bookstores around here, so they must be doing something right. Owned
by a retired couple named (surprise) Seward, this is a comfortable
place to browse, and only a couple of blocks from coffee mecca on
Wickenden Street, so you can conveniently take your purchases and
enjoy them over a cup of espresso.



Kate
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books