HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dd908821@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Douglas Deden)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Reloading advice needed
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:15:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: yuma.9210162047.AA95563
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <bakc.173.719129914@giraffe.ru.ac.za>, bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za 
(MR KR COMAN) writes:

[stuff deleted.

|> 
|> Golly, I bet somewhere out there someone's developed a Lotus spreadsheet for
|> his home reloading production operation!   Me: it was (1), then (2), then as
|> the Moderator says...."Cost savings = Additional Reloading Kit"!!!!
|> 
|> Cheers,
|> Keith 

Well, it's actually Quattro Pro, not Lotus, but it works pretty well.  I have the costs of
each batch of ammo adjusted to include the long-term costs (press, dies, tumbler, etc.) by
dividing total long-term costs by the number of rounds loaded to date.  My first batch of
100 9mm reloads cost almost three bucks each (that's three bucks per cartridge, not per
box), but now, with a total of about 1000 rounds loaded, the cost for each round is about
eighty cents.  Eventually, the long-term costs will approach zero, and the cost of each
round will only be the cost of the components.  Unfortunately, by that time, I will probably
have incurred more long-term costs. :-)


Doug Deden
Civil Engineering Department
Colorado State University
dd908821@longs.lance.colostate.edu
From: rmihara%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Randall A. Mihara)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Good news for Glock owners!
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:16:18 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility

In article <9210141507.AA00346@bigguy.eng.ufl.edu> glock@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto) writes:
#Right now GLock is having a sale on Trijicon and Meprolite sights: $59.40!
#
#That's right; for about $60 you can have Trijicon sights on your Glock!

That sounds like a good deal for the sights, but how much would it cost
to have them installed?  Presumably you need to use that sight adjustment
tool, which isn't cheap.  Do you think a gunsmith would charge an arm
and a leg to do a simple installation?

Randy Mihara
rmihara@ocf.berkeley.edu
From: tang1613@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tariq A. Nayfeh)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need tips for gun cleaning..
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:15:14 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

kknox@logdis1.hq.aflc.af.mil (Kevin P. Knox) writes:

#You recently wrote to rec.guns -

##I  have  a  Ruger GP-100 revolver in stainless steel.  I  follow  the
##instructions  for cleaning, but I can't seem to get it as clean as it
##should  be.  This is especially apparent where the cylinder meets the
##barrel.   I'll summarize my technique below so that more  experienced
##people can offer criticism and suggestions:

#...(much deleted)...

##So,  what  would  rec.guns readers suggest that I do  otherwise?   Is
##there  a  tool  I can use to scrub between the cylinder  and  barrel?
##Also, how clean does the gun have to be?

##Thank you in advance for any tips...

#A  friend of mine has a Ruger Super Redhawk that suffers from the same
#problem.    We  tried  everything  and   still  ended  up  with   some
#discoloration  around  the exit end of the cylinder.  It  helped  alot
#when  we  scrubbed  the area with a bronze brush.   Nothing  we  tried
#removed it completely.  Take care.

Try using FLITZ a metal polish. It seams to work great on my Redhawk.  It
also works wonders on any other shiny metal.
Tariq
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Is Balistic 4.00 the latest?
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:21:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: dixie.y=jpxd#
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

bigdog@bones.et.byu.edu (Dan Canfield) writes:

#Thanks to all for the input on a balistic program.  I downloaded
#Balistic v4.00 last night and have been playing with it today.
#Does anyone know if this is the latest version of the program?
#Also, because it was created in '89, does anyone know if 
#William Frenchu, the author is still at 79 Taylor Terrace  in
#Hopewell, NJ.  I want to register with him, but want to make sure
#he is still there.

The current version is 4.01.  I'm not sure if he's released that shareware
yet.  I have exchanged several paper mail messages with Bill suggesting
new features and bug fixes.  As of my last mail several months ago
the address above was still correct.

This is a very good package and validates well with field results.
When you register you can buy the sources for a modest extra fee.
Well written code.  I have hacked/started hacking a few nifty
things in such as integrating the HPREAD.C code that will allow
the program to read the infrared data stream from a Pact chrono
directly.  Last time I talked to Oehler they told me to expect some
kind of connectivity capability in their chronos so this ability
could be very useful.

John

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine (TM) |
Marietta, Ga                         |Interested in high tech and computers? 
jgd@dixie.com                        |Write me about PE Magazine
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Which 9mm to buy
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:52:53 GMT
Organization: Yale University, Computing & Information Systems


In article <1992Oct7.072231.29700@latcs1.lat.oz.au>, jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct06.110730.2587@convex.com> langston@convex.COM (Kevin Langston) writes:
|> #
|> #    Well, there's always the P-220 in 9mm. Dealers are buying them for
|> #    about $350-375. This is a superb gun, the only perceived shortcoming
|> 
|> 	I heard the P-220 in .45 is rather good, any opinions on this?

The P220 in .45 is excellent.  If they are available for $350-$375
dealer cost, please let me know where; I'l buy another one.
-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun Solvent Substitutes
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:16:10 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA


	Just as a data point, I've half a teaspoon of Hoppe's #9
happily burning away in a bottlecap on my desk as I type this in.
It has a blue flame, getting yellow as it climbs higher, and I can
see some boiling and hear a bit of fizzing too.  It's a hot flame,
not at all like an alcohol flame, and when put out it smokes fairly
well.  I'd compare it roughly to diesel fuel in flame properties.

	However, who cares if it's flammable or not?  The question
is whether or not it will harm your firearms while cleaning them.
I've found kerosene and diesel fuel will cut through grime and
lead in a barrel quite nicely, but you'll want to run Hoppe's
through afterwords to remove the residue.  I've only done this
on a black powder rifle barrel, so check your own guns on it before
you start using it regularly.  

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"I see angels on Ariels in leather and>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | chrome, Swooping down from heaven to >
<viking@iastate.edu      | carry me home."   ---    R. Thompson >
<ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee.>
From: sr2s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Malcolm Redmore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: H&K p7M8
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:16:24 GMT


Hi y'all

I kinda buried some of this in one of my earlier posts... So,
I'll give it another try for those  who didn't want to wade through a few K
in order to answer some newbie questions :).  (If anyone has a question that
I feel qualified to answer (chemistry, anyone? :) ) I'd love to answer
it, but for now, I'll just keep taking...


Anyhow... A few questions about the P7M8:
I bought one. Used. 549 dollars.  The barrel (sp?) appeared perfectly
clean, it cycled fine, etc...  However (I tore it down before hand..),
the thing was just grungy as all hell... Are there any parts in it
that are _supposed_ to be coated in black gunk.. (dumb question, I know,
but ya never know... and this is my first handgun).  i just went
through it with solvent and a whole buncha patches, and cleaned it
until no more black stuff came out (including the gas retard chamber).
Then I went over it with a lightweight "gun-oil".

Should I do that everytime I shoot it?  It took me about 45 min. to clean...
Or should I just swab the barrel, and only fully clean it every 1000
rounds or so?  I dno't have a problem with cleaning it every time, I
just don't want to do that if I shouldn't.

(I really like this gun.)

As for ammo, can it handle +P, or +P+ ?  (I was figuring with a steel frame
and all, that it probably could.  I don't want to test it the hard way,
though...)

(Did I mention that I really liked the way this gun shot?)

Anybody have a particular holster (brand or a particular holster
craftsman/woman) that I should check out?  Is it worth carrying
an extra magazine w/this gun?  If so, are there holsters that
account for this?  I'm not big on shoulder holsters... I'd prefer
to stick w/inside the wasteband.  But!  I hhave never tried a shoulder
holster (they just look really inconvenient...), so I am willing
to check 'em out...

(This is a really good gun...)

Of course, my friend just got a sig, so I now have "capacity-envy" :)...
Seriously speaking, will that be a problem for taking LFI-1, or doing
any sort of comp. shooting with it?
(I highly recommend this gun, but then again, I don't have all that
much experience, to take it with a grain of salt :)  . )

--Seth

(and a word of thanks to the moderator, who has to wade through all of this...)
"Thanks!"
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Remington 870 magazine extenders?
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:16:41 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

First, my thanks to all who've responded to my inquiry.  Looks like it's a
"go" with the 870, as soon as I can build up the budget a bit.  I'll have
to special order it to get the ghost ring sights, but don't anticipate
much extra expense or hassle otherwise.

In article <9210112354.AA11187@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ryan Alexander Noguchi) writes:
}In article <1992Oct10.001030.28245@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com
}(The Polymath) writes:
}#[...]
}#assorted aftermarket options (side-car, rifle sights, parkerized finish,
}			       ^^^^^^^^
}Would this be the "side-saddle" for spare shells on the side of the
}receiver opposite the ejection port?  

It would.  I've heard both terms used around here.  Likewise, for "rifle
sights" read "ghost ring sights." (I shouldn't post when I'm short of
sleep.  Trouble is, I'm _always_ short of sleep these days).

}#sling and associated hardware, flashlight built into fore-end).
}				^^^^^^^^^^
}I would make sure that:

[ Good advice deleted for bandwidth ]

The one I'm looking at is a part of the fore-end.  I.e.:  The fore-end
_is_ the flashlight.  It can't interfere with the action or be knocked out
of alignment short of ruining the gun.  It's controlled by a tape switch
along the side of the fore-end.  As with triggers, if you don't want the
light on, keep your fingers off the switch.  I don't have any plans to go
house clearing at all.  I plan to call the cops and hide behind my
waterbed 'til they get there.  Of course, someone breaking the bedroom
door down might call for a change of plan ...

My only concern about it is the fore-end isn't checkered.  I suppose
I could have that done later.

}	I recommend Massad Ayoob's new (1992) book "Stressfire II:
}Advanced Combat Shotgun" for defensive shotgunning techniques and
}shotgun/accessory/ammunition selection tips.  It also contains some
}graphic black and white autopsy photos depicting fatal shotgun wounds,
}in case anyone is curious...

I'm just finishing "Stressfire."  Good stuff.  I'll see about "Stressfire
II" next.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:42:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: iftccu.13400046
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group



Now don't get me wrong, I own both revolvers and semi auto pistols.
Each has their place.  This post had a couple of points that I felt
could use some clarification.

#The trigger pull is *longer* than on several popular revolvers. You may
#consider 5 pounds too light for a duty trigger, but I don't. I consider
#12 pounds too heavy for a duty trigger. The key question is what's the

Do you realize that under stress you can effortlessly exert over 50 lbs
of force with your trigger finger, without even realizing it?  Twelve
lbs may not be heavy enough.  Certainly all the experts I've read agree
that five lbs is an absolute minimum, and that for anybody who does not
undergo constant recurrent training, it is too little.  Banging away at
the range a couple of times a month, (or even per day!) doesn't really
qualify as training.

#pull for the *second* shot. On most semi-autos it's *much* lighter than
#12 pounds. In a combat situation, it's just as likely that you've already
#fired the first shot when you have an AD as it is that it's your first
#shot. So trigger weight isn't a safety consideration. What is a consideration
#is *consistency* from shot to shot. Glocks are consistent at 5 pounds,

You'll never get better consistency than with a good revolver....  Got
to agree on DA semi autos though.

#DA only weapons are consistent at 12 pounds, DA semi-autos are grossly
#*inconsistent* from first to remaining shots, and SA semi-autos are
#consistently *light* pull weapons after they're racked. Revolvers are
#grossly different between cocked and uncocked. Almost everyone cocks
                                                       ^^^^^^^^
#a revolver if they have the chance simply because it allows them to
#be more accurate.

Only those who learned to shoot by watching TV....  Out to about 50
yards or so, almost everybody who has learned to shoot a revolver
properly can do as well double action as single action.  And let us not
forget that many of the speed/accuracy records are still held by a
double action revolver shooters.  The advantages of an auto are capacity
and speed in reloading.  And reloading doesn't count much against
somebody who has practiced a bit with speed loaders.  There is maybe a
second to two seconds difference between reloading a revolver and a semi
auto, if you compare experts times.  Around a second for the semi, and
2.5 to 3 seconds for the revolver.  Lots of difference in certain games,
but not necessarily significant if you are in a tactical situation.

#                  Letting down the hammer on a cocked revolver can be
#a ticklish matter. That's never an issue with the Glock.

True. If you intend to use a revolver for defense, learn to shoot it
double action.  You probably won't remember to cock it under stress
anyway.

Rick.

Reduce violence in America.  Kill your TV.  Do it today.
From: edhresko@eos.ncsu.edu (ERIC DAVID HRESKO)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Night vision equipment
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:23:30 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos

In article <9210081325.AA12362@flubber.cs.UMD.EDU> kunz@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (kunz peter) writes:
#In article <1992Sep28.152435.8339@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
##	
##	Litton Military night vision goggles	$4999.95
##
##	Litton Night Vision weapon scope	$7299.95
##
##	And a bunch of other really expensive toys.
##
#whoa! look in the back of the uscav catalog. most eastern bloc scopes
#are available for around $1k

	Yeah, and the stuff is also that top quality combloc stuff!:)

-- 


Eric

******************************************************************************
Eric Hresko		* Mail:  edhresko@eos.ncsu.edu                       * 
Kanki House of Steaks   * Voice: (why would you want to call?) 1-919-821-5168*
Dishwasher 2nd Class    * HK Rules!!! (But a FAL will do in a pinch)         *
DISCLAIMER:  I don't wear sandals, eat granola, or tiptoe thru the Tulips    *
******************************************************************************
From: craig@osf.org (Craig Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carry around the country (a new response)
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:16:24 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation

In article <1992Oct12.114841.1@vaxr.llnl.gov> laycak@vaxr.llnl.gov writes:
#PS. I checked into carrying MACE (effective in a closed room, but questionable
#    outside on a windy day) and stun-gun (effective but you have to be real
#    close to your "problem" to use it).  

A couple of words on these points.

MACE, and many of its ilk, have proven to be very ineffective.  My
wife, a retired police officer, was sprayed with MACE multiple times
in "ideal" circumstances.  It really upsets people.  Most of the time
when people sprayed it to protect themselves against an agressor, they
were in for a much worse time than if they hadn't done anything (which
I'm not proposing).

In LFI-II Mass Ayoob has a final shooting scenario.  You are at a
target, your gun is holstered & loaded, and your signal to fire is...
being hit with a stun gun - 70,000 volt variety with the "enhancer"
attached.

It is annoying, but not much else.

In order for it to be effective you have to have continual contact
with the same part of the body (over a major nerve) with the "weapon"
firing for at least 6 seconds.  Even this doesn't work much of the
time.  He told the story of this one guy who was hit with two stun
guns & told the police to keep it up because "it feels like my old
lady is doin' me" as he laughed.

Part of the problem with the Rodney King incident was that they hit
him with a stun gun and it didn't do much.  They expected him to be
knocked out (as their false training had indicated).  He wasn't
knocked out, so they obviously had to use substantially more force.

According to Mass there are a few departments which issued these to
their officers with the standard (zap zap zap) demonstration in thin
air, and marketing promises of instantly stunned people.  Practice
showed that it didn't work, and back they went.

I seem to recall reading a similar article in Law and Order.

Craig.

PS Your choice of .38 spcl. was certainly the best of the items you
   named.
-- 
Craig Peterson, n8ino	craig@mainstream.com
PO Box 1120, Merrimack, NH  03054-1120
Unless otherwise noted opinions expressed are not those
of my employers.
From: mjc5@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael J. Cavotta)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .45 For Sale
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:23:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


	I'm selling my Para Ordnance P-14 Pistol.  For those of you who are not
overly familiar with the P-14 or its kin from Para Ordnance, it is based on
the 1911-style frame, with the exception of its light-alloy receiver and
wider grip.
	The P-14 is a high-capacity auto-pistol, holding 13+1 rounds of
ammo, hence "P-14".  I'm pretty sure it has a 5.5" barrel, but it may be
6", and has a black matte combat finish.  
	I have only put 500 rounds through the gun, using it as a personal
defense weapon with the occasional trip to the range.  It has performed
flawlessly for me, and will serve its next owner equally well, I'm sure.
	

	I want $500 for the gun, a considerable savings over retail (over
$200).  I'll throw in a box of ammo and an Uncle Mike's shoulder rig just
because I'm nice :)

   
-- 
Michael J. Cavotta

"You either ride the steam-roller, or you stand there whining and die..."
From: kozowski@ohsu.EDU (Eric Kozowski)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock adoption (Portland Mystery)
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:15:49 GMT
Organization: Oregon Health Sciences University


OK, Here is the scoop on the Portland PD glocks:

There was an AD with a glock when the butt of the pistol got struck with a
night stick.  It happend during training and luckily did not hurt anyone.

The second problem that was experinced 4 or 5 time was the the gun would
"decock" due to a manufacturing defect.  The officer would chamber a round
(and therefore cock the gun) and go about his daily business.  When they
got to the range, they unholstered, and attempted to fire and - NOTHING.
The slide had to be cycled and another round chambered for it to fire.
needless to say some officers found this a bit disconcerting.  So, glock
sent a factory armorer and reworked all the glocks.  Essentially the put
new guts in the guns.  

After finding out that the guns would decock and before the armorer
arrived, the dept. offered to buy back and glock.  So far most officers
have kept them.


-- 
Eric Kozowski                | System/Network Administrator
kozowski@ohsu.edu            | Oregon Health Sciences University
			     | 840 SW Gaines Rd GH113
503/494-4537                 | Portland, Oregon 97201
From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Re: Glock doesn't *need* a safety (Re: .40 S&W Help Sought)
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:19:06 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


/ iftccu:rec.guns / tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler) / 10:20 am  Oct  9, 1992 /

#	Properly trained shooters using Glock pistols are not burdened
#with having to do the "tap rack click, lock, strip, work, tap, rack,
#bang" procedure that Farnum (correctly) set a 10 second par time for.
#Double-feed clearing (generally the most complex, time-consuming
#failure that occurs with pistols) on a Glock pistol is accomplished
#merely by adding a single step to tap-rack-bang: strip the magazine ot
#of the magazine well only as far as necessary to allow a loose round
#to fall out (about half-an-inch). The drill then is:
#strip-tap-rack-bang. Works like a charm every time, and only requires
#about 3-4 seconds to accomplish.

The 'advantages' of magazines that do not 'free fall?'  What if the malfunction
was caused by the magazine?  What if it was caused by the ammo? (You do 
load different LOTS of your combat ammo in your spare magazines don't you?)
Factory ammo is very reliable, but problems with it DO occur occasionally.

To be fair, what Peter says is strictly true.  Double feeds in the Glock
can easily be cleared by the method he describes.  And 99.9 percent of the 
time, that is the problem that requires the 'extended' procedure we've been 
discussing.  The problem is that in a combat situation you may not want  
(or be able to) to take the time to diagnose the situation.  The full 
procedure, (you do carry at least one extra mag, even if you carry a 
high capacity wonder nine, done you?) will clear about any problem except 
a broken gun.  One extended procedure for (most) all circumstances.   Maybe 
Ayoob and Peter can think under that kind of stress.  For myself, I'm 
happier with a procedure that requires a minimum of thought.

Of course, if you get into a fight with a whole street gang, you might need 
EVERY round.....

Rick.

Reduce violence and raise America's average IQ.  Kill your TV today.