From: rseymour@reed.edu (Robert Seymour)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware
Subject: Re: New SPARC Classic
Keywords: sun, sparc, classic
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:19:12 GMT
Reply-To: rseymour@reed.edu
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Nov12.021408.5454@RedBrick.COM> jfr@RedBrick.COM writes:
> In article <1992Nov11.230438.21819@reed.edu> rseymour@reed.edu writes:
> >[munched various discussions of the Sparc Classic
> >	The price is $4295 (with the 15" color display and ~250MB hard drive  
> >display) for any quantity other than multiples of 12. So if you buy 15, it  
12  
> >at $3995 and 3 at $4295. In addition there will be no educational  
disounting.  
> >I hope NeXT never sinks to this level of marketing. However it is a low  
price  
> >for the amount of power you get (I've heard around 25 SPEC89s, as compared  
to  
> >the $8,000 Turbo Color's paltry 14.6 [and it doesn't have the awful problems  
> >with disk acess that the NeXT does {did you see UNIX Review's review of the  
> >Turbo Color?}), though the Solaris user interface is awful (and it only runs  
> >version 2.1). I'd like to see NeXT make a decision on its future, so that  
> >I can decide which system to go with (NeXT, Mac, Sun, IBM, or other).
> 
>   I don't know what you mean you "hope NeXT never sinks to this level of
>   marketing".  Are you suggesting that the lack of educational discounting
>   is a some kind of low-life level of marketing?  Why is that?
> 
>   You yourself say that a Sparc with 15" color and 250Mb drive is a good buy.
>   It is, IMHO, an excellent buy, especially if the 25 Specs is true.  
> 
>   If Sun can sell this machine at a low profit at this price, but not at any
>   lower price, then there are only two ways I can interpret your argument.     
> 
>     1) Sun should be selling the machine at an educational discount beyond
>        the already low $3995 price, even if it is at a loss.  OR
> 
>     2) Sun should be selling the machine at a higher price to those of
>        us who aren't *blessed* with access to educational discounts.
> 
>   I find both arguments extremely hard to stomach.  I agree that companies
>   should try and reduce their margins on educational sales if they have
>   fairly high margins on regular sales, for several reasons.  Educational
>   usage will help the future by seeding the world with lots of people
>   who are exposed to the machine.   It also helps the present by getting
>   a critical mass of software developers working on the machine who are
>   in a position to build stuff without a massive capital investment (they
>   are already being supported through school by their parents/school/
>   state/federal govt (pick all that apply :-)).  
> 
>   But if the company chooses to reduce its margins to the bare minimum
>   and sell a product at a very small markup to everyone, I don't
>   see why they should be expected to offer educational discounts.
> 
>   And I don't see why being in school should somehow magically entitle
>   you to own a machine at a lower price than me, just because you are
>   in school.  And I also fail to see how this is a "low" level of 
>   marketing.   
> 
>   BTW, most products are NOT offered at significant educational discounts.
>   For instance, cars, stereos, video cameras, appliances, etc.  Why are
>   computers somehow "different"?  If it is in the vendor's interest to
>   offer a discount, I have no problem with that.  But I fail to see why
>   discounts should somehow be mandated.  I would prefer to see low-margin
>   prices on everything to everybody.
> 
>   Jon Rosen

	It appears that I was not clear in my statement. I suggest neither of  
the above, nor that there is a type of "obligation" for a computer company to  
offer educational discounts. I think it is in the best interest of the company  
to do so, but that the decision is solely that of the company in question. I  
was referring to the fact that they advertise the main price as that of  
quantities of 12 (which I found misleading [supported by the lack of  
understanding about the price both in this group and in the sun groups]), and  
that they offer that price solely for multiples of twelve (as opposed to  
discounts for larger quantities in general). 
	I claim to any more right to determine the policies of a company than  
can be exerted in the vote I conduct with my wallet. I'm glad you find both  
hard to stomach, since I think they are outright appalling. We would all do a  
little better to divert the energy we spend flaming companies and policies to  
making a more conscious and informed decision in our purchases (these are our  
only real votes to a computer company [execpting stockholders]).

P.S.	I apologize for misleading readers in stating that there would be no  
	educational discounts. There is, in fact, a discount of aprroximately  
	15% (as opposed to the usual 25-35%) for the SPARCstation Classic  
	systems. I was mislead by a post in the sun hardware group which  
	reported that no educational discounts would be established.

--
Robert Seymour				rseymour@reed.edu
Departments of Physics and Philosophy
Artificial Life Project			Reed College
Reed Solar Energy Project (SolTrain)	Portland, OR