HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: palmer@icat.larc.nasa.gov (Michael T. Palmer)
Subject: Re: Wolves! They're back?
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:04:32 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

ketchum@cs.montana.edu (Steve White) writes:

>Okay I'm off of my soap box. Bring on the flames. But first one more thing.
>I don't think that the U.S. Dept. of Fish & Wildlife will ever reintroduce
>the wolves back into the Yellowstone Ecosystem. For two reasons; one- there
>is too much opposition from the locals who would have to live with them and
>two- someone else has already done it. Who? No one
>seems to know but several canids have been spotted and one shot that are 
>probably very much wolf if not 100% It's not that easy to say this critter
>is a dog and this is a wolf, since the wolf is a distant ancester to ALL
>breeds of domestic dogs. Yes, even those obnoxious, little punt dogs.

We had a speaker here at NASA Langley just last week: Chris Madson,
the editor of Wyoming Wildlife Magazine.  He reported much the same...
it is not clear if the U.S. Fish & Wildlife folks will ever reach a
decision.  And he said that they are *definitely* holding off even
thinking about it until they can verify those canids (he said there
were 3) that were shot.  Chris said that if wolves have "reintroduced
themselves" somehow, then the Feds won't (can't) interfere.  He did
not address the issue of someone "helping" the wolves to reintroduce
themselves.

Mr. Madson's talk was very interesting, since he spent a great deal of
it outlining the history of the idea of preserving large ecosystems in
the U.S. which led up to the National Park System (and other
organizations and land designations).  He is also the author of the
book: When Nature Heals: The Greening of the Rocky Mountain Arsenal.
And he is a hunter who seems to have a pretty good grasp of the
biological (and political) issues w.r.t.  wildlife management.

Hopefully, the kind of thoughful reflection on what might happen if we
take various courses of action that I saw Mr. Madson had engaged in
made me somewhat more upbeat about the whole problem out there.  He
also proposed that the westerners who instinctively resist "East Coast
Conservationists" telling them what to do with their land should
travel to the east to see what a mess we made of things here.  Maybe
then they would see beyond the immediate dollar signs to try to leave
to their children the same chances to experience the land and
participate in hunting & fishing that they had.

-- 
Michael T. Palmer, M/S 152, NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA 23681
Voice: 804-864-2044,   FAX: 804-864-7793,   Email: m.t.palmer@larc.nasa.gov
RIPEM Public Key available soon --- Consider it an envelope for your e-mail
From: pnr0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PAUL N. RITTER)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Lyme Disease E-mail Network...
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:35:05 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Dec23.100151.8829@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, ole!renfield!bender@uunet.
UU.NET (Craig Bender) writes:
>So who are the LDEMN folks ?  Are they M.D.s or other knowledgeable
>persons or just another group of "self appointed experts"!!
>
>Before rec.hunting becomes a sounding board for the medical field and
>Lyme Disease Research/Treatment we should know who is doing the `typing'.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Craig Bender

    This guy must be having a bad hair-day. Lighten up, bud.
From: josephs@garnet.msen.com (Joseph Stroup)
Subject: Colt
Date: 21 Dec 92 10:17:57 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Colt 45.....Boy I hear the name Colt and ugh! The guns and
the company used to be really great. Have any of you tried to buy
>from this chap.11 company? They took a two week holiday this
summer just like everything was fine. They need money and they have
the conversion kits in stock for AR15's, do you think they make any
attempt to sell them. The company does not have heart! You have to
want to make it to survive. I called a dist. this summer as well as Colt
and I could not get a straight answer on anything. Oh, the custom shop
will sell to you - The big ??? is when can they deliver. Yes, some gun
orders do trickle through but not many.

                  Frustrated. 


Joseph Stroup          | Still trying to work
                       | and Play well with Others.
From: mdb@netcom.com (Mark Bisgeier)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Skeet/Sporting Clays
Summary: Skeet/Shotgun Sports
Keywords: skeet
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:43:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Is this the right newsgroup for discussions re various shotgun sports such
as skeet, trap and sporting clays?   Thanks

[Moderator's note:  I think rec.hunting is a good a place as any.
Rec.guns might be a slightly better place but try posting questions to
both groups.  tjr]

-- 

Mark Bisgeier              mdb@netcom.com
       ...Let your mind wander... 
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Subject: Re: Wolves! They're back?
Organization: Sun
Date: 23 Dec 92 10:02:25 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Dec22.090444.5273@doug.cae.wisc.edu> bws20@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Brian W Simmons) writes:
>
>You are absolutely right.  Of course if you were lived in this cesspool of
>a state you would want to move, too.  Trust me on this.

It's pretty tempting...

>The _only_ thing saving the rest of the nation at this point is that there
>are still a lot of native Californians (I'm a Georgia boy, so don't tar
>me with *that* brush) have never been anywhere and honestly don't
>know they are living in a slime pit.  In a smooth move of enlightened
>self-interest, I don't tell them anything different...

Well, I'm a native Califonian, and I am quite aware of the problems of the
state.  Unfortunately, I'm also one of those who figure it's just barely
possible that it can be salvaged (start by thinning out the local herd of
policritters).

Maybe we'll be able to split the state and let the pathogens slump down
to the south. (I'm not a bigot...I grew up in SoCal, but I left of my
own volition.)  I figure the northern part of the state is worth saving.

I also recall a lot of disparaging remarks about Californians from Oregon
and Washington residents...and also remember seeing a *lot* of license
plates from both states when their economies were stalled, and ours
wasn't.

Ex-Californians are probably salvageable when they move into your state...
but it may take some serious chemotherapy to save them.  :}

I often thank God that Sacramento/San Francisco/L.A. is only a small
percentage of the total land area of the state.

--
-------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give away      |
| to everybody else and have none left for yourself.  |
|------------------------ Dieter the car salesman-----|


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg)
Subject: Re: Wolves! They're back?
Date: 31 Dec 92 10:11:32 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Craig (cvacura@uswat.uswest.com) writes:

   Matt Rein writes:
   >BTW, we hunt deer in and out of wolf country here in MN.  The hunting is
   >the same in both places as far as I can tell.  

   I have to disagree with that.  This last season some wolves moved into
   one of our hunting areas in Northern Minnesota.  We saw 10 deer on
   opening day, 2 deer and a set of wolf tracks on Sunday morning (BTW
   one of the deer was running from a swamp for no apparent reason??),
   more wolf tracks on Monday and nary a deer for the rest of the season.
   Fortunately, we have other land to hunt and we filled up.  The other
   hunters we know who stayed went 1 for 6.

   About 10 years ago, one of the last times I hunted there before
   moving, I saw 38 deer the first weekend.  That is an incredible number
   for MN whitetail.  The next weekend all we saw were a few sets of wolf
   tracks.

I don't see what wolves have to do with this scenario.  It is quite
typical for deer to wise up and not be seen after opening weekend.
Why do you suspect otherwise?  Do you think the wolves ate all of the
38 deer you saw on opeing weekend?

   [lots deleted]

   Just my few bits worth on a favorite subject.

   Craig

   I own guns, I hunt, I drive a motorcycle, I believe there is a God.
   I expect my freedom to do those things will disappear in that order.

This is a great .sig.  Unfortunately, I think your predictions are
correct.  At least, I think it will take quite a while for them to
happen. 

tim
---
    ...  Then they came for me,
	   and by that time there was no one
	     left to speak up for me. (Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945)
From: hunter@s07.es.llnl.gov (Steve Hunter 423-2219)
Subject: WARNING: Hydrogen peroxide and vinegar
Date: 29 Dec 92 09:30:57 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

	My dad asked me to use my Outer's Foul Out to electronically
clean out his .45 auto barrel. For some reason, the unit found the gun
to be clean after a very short time, but there was still visible lead
in the barrel, so I tried the hydrogen peroxide and vinegar technique
that was mentioned recently.
	After a short while there were bubbles coming up and the
liquid was discoloring. At bedtime it was still bubbling vigorously,
so I left the solution in over night. In the morning, the bubbling had
stopped and the solution was quite brown. There was also a ring of
rust at the top of the liquid. Pouring out the liquid revealed that
all of the lead streaking was gone, the entire area that was covered
by liquid had a frosted appearance, and there were several small but
deep pits in the chamber.
	No amount of cleaning, oiling, or even polishing could bring a
shine back to the barrel or chamber. It appears certain that the
barrel has been etched and the chamber has been destroyed.
	The solution was a measured 50-50 mix of new 3% H2O2 and white
vinegar.
	Does anyone know of a good place to buy a new .45 auto barrel?
It is the untapered type. I hope that I don't have to buy a full match
barrel, but my dad does use it in local competition, so a junk surplus
is out.

 __       __       __    __   __
/_/|     /_/|     /_/\  /_/| /_/|     Steven Hunter
| ||     | ||     |  \\ | || | ||     Seismic Observatory
| ||___  | ||___  |   \\| || | ||___  Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
| |/__/| | |/__/| | |\ \| || | |/__/| (510)423-2219
 \____|/  \____|/ |_| \___|/  \____|/ StevenHunter@llnl.gov
From: saunders@skitzo.dseg.ti.com
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Duck band
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:43:23 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Component Test Facility
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


 I killed a duck over the holidays that had a band on it. Does anyone
know the specific address for notifying the proper authorities. The
band just says "write Washington D.C. U.S.A.". I assume that it is the
Dpt. of the Interior but maybe someone else has done this before.

Tracy Saunders
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Marc Gabriel)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Lyme Disease E-mail Network...
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:34:56 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Dec23.100151.8829@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, ole!renfield!bender@uunet.
UU.NET (Craig Bender) writes:
>So who are the LDEMN folks ?  Are they M.D.s or other knowledgeable
>persons or just another group of "self appointed experts"!!
>
>Before rec.hunting becomes a sounding board for the medical field and
>Lyme Disease Research/Treatment we should know who is doing the `typing'.

A few clarifications:
1. The LDEMN posting was just an announcement... Interested
individuals should subscribe to the mailing list... rec.hunting will
not become a subset of sci.med.

2. The newsletter will contain:
   a. portions of the newsletter produced by the Lyme Disease Network of NJ,
   Inc.
   b. various press releases that usually make it on page Z78 of the New York
   Times.
   c. comments by Lyme physicians
   d. questions (by subscribers) and answers
   e. a commentary by either a patient or an MD
   etc..

-Marc.
-- 
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
             Marc C. Gabriel '93    -  U.C. Box 545  -
               (215) 882-0138        Lehigh University
              mcg2@Lehigh.EDU       Bethlehem, PA 18015
                Compu$erve: >internet:mcg2@Lehigh.edu
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 I'm still thinking about the witty one-liner I'm supposed to put here.
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: ole!renfield!bender@uunet.UU.NET (Craig Bender)
Subject: Re: Lyme Disease E-mail Network...
Organization: Seattle Silicon Corporation, Bellevue, WA
Date: 23 Dec 92 10:01:51 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

So who are the LDEMN folks ?  Are they M.D.s or other knowledgeable
persons or just another group of "self appointed experts"!!

Before rec.hunting becomes a sounding board for the medical field and
Lyme Disease Research/Treatment we should know who is doing the `typing'.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Bender


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: richm@bella.corp.sgi.com (Rich McKay)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Raising and Releasing Game Birds... Advice Needed
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:30:26 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Keywords:Raising and Releasing Game Birds... Advice Needed

My family owns a cattle ranch in South Central Nevada and we are
interested in raising and releasing game birds in order to establish a
self sustaining population.  There is a small native population of
sage hens already on the property, and we have also seen several small
bunches of chukar.  We were thinking of raising and releasing chukar
and quail.  There were populations of both in the past, but they have
dwindled over the last few years due in part to the increase in the
number of coyotes and hawks.

Does anyone know of any organization I could contact to get more
information?  I would be interested in purchasing chicks or even
fertilized eggs.  Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Please respond to this account or post to the net.


...Rich
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: bbx!therev!archive@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Rec.Hunting Archives)
Subject: Administrivia - the Rec.Hunting Charter
Organization: Los Alamos Case and Cartridge
Date: 31 Dec 92 10:10:30 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu
Keywords: Administrivia, Charter, Monthly

First, rec.hunting is moderated and here is the "official" charter:

   Charter: rec.hunting is to cover all aspects of hunting excepting the
   moral arguments about the nature of hunting.  Various topics include
   equipment, tactics, regulations, and just about anything else.

Note that all arguments about the morality of hunting will be
rejected.

Most systems automatically send news to the moderator of the group (if
any).  However a few systems don't.  To send posts directly to
rec.hunting, mail them to

        hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu.

Second, there is also a mailing list version of the group.  People on
the mailing list receive each day's posts through email.  The posts
are sent in a digest format which means there is one note that
contains all of the posts.  Also, the digest is in standard form and
many machines have built in "undigestify" commands.  However, don't
ask me how to undigestify mail on your machine because I don't not
know.

To be added to (or removed from) the mailing list, send a note to

        hunting-request@osnome.che.wisc.edu.

Tim Rigg (Moderator of rec.hunting)



Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael)
Subject: Re: Goose Recipes
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Date: 23 Dec 92 10:01:39 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

>From article <1992Dec22.090309.5126@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, by gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar):
> In article <1992Dec15.085623.14001@doug.cae.wisc.edu> mikepb@lupus.dell.com (Michael P. Brininstool) writes:
>>
>>A co-worker has purchased a 8-10 lb fresh goose to cook for her
>>husband for Christmas.  She would like to know if anyone has some
>>recipes for cooking goose.  Recipes for sauces would be real nice too.
>>Please respond to me by E-Mail (mikepb@lupus.dell.com) or to Kathy
>>(the dutiful wife) at kwoods@eutopia.dell.com.  THX in advance!
> 
> How about posting them too?  An acquaintance recently received a
> Canada from a friend and did a very bad job of preparing it for her
> family. Doubt they will ever try goose again, but good recipes might
> change that.
> 
Having cooked both domestic and wild goose with reasonable success, the
first thing the cooks must remember is that the domestic and the wild
birds are as different as night and day.

The domestic goose is a regular butter-ball; so laden with fat that the
main issue is draining the bird as is roasts!  Domestic goose should be
roaster on a rack over a pan. Breast up works fine.  The key trick is to
make a number of short slices in the skin of the back to let the fat
drain out of the bird.

The wild goose is as lean as the domestic bird is fat!  So, the main
problem with a wild bird is drying it out as you cook it.  I have found
that enclosing the bird in an appropriately sized paper bag that has
been completely greased is very effective.  (This technique also works
well with lean turkeys.)  Open the bag to brown the skin for the last 20
minutes of cooking.

chrisp


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: ketchum@cs.montana.edu (Steve White)
Subject: Re: field dressing question
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, MSU, Bozeman Mt 59717
Date: 21 Dec 92 10:24:49 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Dec17.092501.24611@doug.cae.wisc.edu> mkilpela@mtu.edu (Mark E. Kilpela) writes:
>
>The most important part (in my opinion) is in the processing. I've
>butchered four to five deer a year (my sons keep me busy) for a number of
>years and have had excellent venison during that time.   Believe it or not
>I haven't had one bad tasting deer in years!
>
>My Method:  I carefully  de-bone and cut away all fat and tallow from the
>meat. That's the only secret of good tasting vension. It takes a lot more
>time to do, but is well worth the extra time when it's on the table. 
>
>The last two years my brother had deer commercially butchered ( deer from
>the same area) and both were strong tasting.  --The way they were processed
>was:--  (This is the most common method of processing meat) The carcass's
>were frozen and cut up with a meat saw, leaving all bone and tallow in with
>the meat. The bone marrow from the saw cut spredding in to the meat may be
>another part of the problem, also the fat and tallow of wild game is very
>strong tasting. Taste it sometime.
>
> This has been my experience, what is the consensus of the net??
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mark E. Kilpela                          email mkilpela@mtu.edu  
>Michigan Technological University        phone   906-487-2264
>School of Technology 
>Home of the Huskies
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	WELL SAID MARK. I COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF. You
	explained my experiences and feelings exactly. DITTO.
Steve White



Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: lnorman@Arizona.EDU (Louis A. Norman, Rm 126,621-6701)
Subject: Re: Lurker Questions -- Why always after bucks,
Organization: University of Arizona, CCIT-Telecommunications
Date: 23 Dec 92 10:02:04 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Arizona does have doe hunts from time to time. You are correct that 
bowhunters could harvest does or bucks in the past, that changed two 
or three years ago. In the Kaibab, there have been several does hunts
for rifle hunters. We (my family) have gone up there a few times in 
the past for the doe hunts. It was a easy draw (we have a lottery for 
large game tags) and the meat was tender and tasty. Your are correct
that the doe hunts are part of managing the herd populations.

Lou
---



Louis A. Norman				
lnorman@arizona.edu
	



Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby)
Subject: Re: Wolves! They're back?
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:04:11 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Dec21.102613.3466@doug.cae.wisc.edu> ketchum@cs.montana.edu (Steve White) writes:
= 
= 	People are moving into this area in droves (mostly from CA) 'cuz they
= 	"like it here. It's so much more pleasant here."

And the next step will be, unless I miss my guess, that they will
try to change the place to be just like the place they moved there
to get away from.

Me?  A Cynic?  Naahhhhh...........


-- 
Best,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
	  crs@lanl.gov
From: todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Raising and Releasing Game Birds... Advice Needed
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:43:43 GMT
Organization: throw it on the floor - it's happier there.
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

richm@bella.corp.sgi.com (Rich McKay) writes:

>My family owns a cattle ranch in South Central Nevada and we are
>interested in raising and releasing game birds in order to establish a
>self sustaining population.  There is a small native population of
>sage hens already on the property, and we have also seen several small
>bunches of chukar.  We were thinking of raising and releasing chukar
>and quail.  There were populations of both in the past, but they have
>dwindled over the last few years due in part to the increase in the
>number of coyotes and hawks.

The best advice is: DON'T DO IT.  If you release pen-raised birds into
the area, you'll probably lose the native populations you've already
got to the increased predator population that the pen-raised birds
will attract.

At the Quail Unlimited national convention this past summer I attended
a lecture on this very subject, and they found that 99% of pen-raised
birds don't survive a week on thier own.  The few introduction
projects that have been successful (like pheasants and chukars) were
conducted by highly trained scientists and game experts, not the
general populous.

So far, the only things I've seen happen by introducing pen-raised
birds to the environment without careful study have been disaster.  On
the east coast, some of the duck hunting clubs buy *thousands* of
pen-raised mallards and release them each year.  The effect??  The
black duck is just about gone, due to the increased predation and
competition for food.  Nice job, boys.


-- 
Todd++;
------------------
todd@refrig.dixie.com
**** I voted with the majority this past election - AGAINST Clinton! ****
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Subject: Re: Goose Recipes
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:03:09 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Dec15.085623.14001@doug.cae.wisc.edu> mikepb@lupus.dell.com (Michael P. Brininstool) writes:
>
>A co-worker has purchased a 8-10 lb fresh goose to cook for her
>husband for Christmas.  She would like to know if anyone has some
>recipes for cooking goose.  Recipes for sauces would be real nice too.
>Please respond to me by E-Mail (mikepb@lupus.dell.com) or to Kathy
>(the dutiful wife) at kwoods@eutopia.dell.com.  THX in advance!
>

How about posting them too?  An acquaintance recently received a
Canada from a friend and did a very bad job of preparing it for her
family. Doubt they will ever try goose again, but good recipes might
change that.

gmk



Newsgroups: rec.hunting