HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL COMPUSERVE POLICY ON USENET POSTS FROM COMPUSERVE
Date: 9 Sep 92 07:00:10 GMT

alizard@drc.UUCP (alizard) writes:
 
> In other words, if someone gets an accountmpuserve
> and uses it to post a meg of extracts from alt.sex.bondage
> and GIFs of bestiality onto  the Xtian newsgroups, Compuserve
> takes no responsibilites for the actions of its users. At all.

Correct.  As it should not.  CI$ is simply the carrier--the fact that Usenet 
can be accessed via private email is not their problem.

> The only other comment I'll add is that this lack of interest
> probably only applies to what Christia do, and if a pagan
> or member of a minority religion did post a meg onto 
> altn.christianity, that CompuServe probably would
> take action.

I highly doubt it.  CompuServe is only concerned with making money.  They 
have no ideological axe to grind beyond that.  That's why they have an 
established policy of not restricting traffic across the Internet gateway, or 
any other email gateway they provide.  If someone sends an obscene fax across 
their fax gateway, that is likewise the customer's problem, not CompuServe's.

> Well, Chris can be unplugged at root at his gateway... which
> at least ought to be disturbed to find that one of its user
> systems DOES not care what its users do on the network...

Most system administrators do not care what their users do on the network.
Trying to stifle Chris is just as silly as him trying to stifle his 
detractors.  I'll say to you what I said to him: get a grip.

> A better question is what a system (and let's face it. On line
> services are simply super bulletin boards) that will not exert
> any form of control over its users is doing hooked up to ANY
> let alone Internet. But this is a discussion better suited for
> somewhere else.

You are describing almost all of the Internet.  Fidonet is the only real 
exception.


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Out of the Closet
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 20:29:22 GMT

  For some reason, it didn't occur to me that my co-workers
would be reading alt.pagan.

  Hi Reed!  Hi Aaron!  Hi (who? probably Dave and at least
one Tim and maybe even a Jim, Connie, Jo, and Mike or two).

  Guess that places me FULLY out of the broom closet.

  Ciaran (enjoying the additional elbow room, but squinting
in the unexpected sunlight)

------------------------
Ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org                 Not an LM spokesbeing

  "... hey but I don't care cause sometimes I said sometimes I hear
    my voice and it's been HERE silent all these years" -- TORI AMOS
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: books for new pagans
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:15:34 GMT
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764


	You might try "Witchcraft Today" by Scott Cunningham.  I like it,
at least.  It is non-fiction, lightweight, short and rather blunt.  If I
were you, I'd be certain to read what ever book I chose first.  The number
of flavors of Wicca is approximately equal to the number of practicioners,
so you will probably want to add some comments on ANYTHING you give them.

	I wish you luck!!

|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
|o| Of Course I speak  |      michael carson       | Carpe Diem, Man.        |o|
|o|  only for myself.  | c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu |                -me      |o|
|o| Would YOU let me   +---------------------------+-------------------------|o|
|o|  speak for you?!?  |      All flames to: nobody@moncol.monmouth.edu      |o|
|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: UCBVAX Gateway
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 21:00:22 GMT

I just sent a post to alt.satanism via the ucbvax gateway.  If it ends up
here, it's a forgery.

Chris Colvin
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: a bitmap for Windows
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 5 Sep 92 01:25:21 GMT

I have a bitmap for Windows that I thought you guys would like, if any
of you have Windows.  I got the idea from something I saw, and decided
to reproduce it for my wallpaper in Windows.  It's a dark blue
background with an owl in the foreground and moons in various phases on
top.  

If it sounds appealing to any of you who have Windows, let me know and I
can mail it to you; I'm hesitant to post it since it's about 35K long,
and that might be a bit big.

Blessings,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: names
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:22:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.180449.13988@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Rosaleen Dhu) writes:
|> Murray, I just read your post about taking different names. I seemed to see
|> a slight problem "taking seriously" people who use a name other than their
|> own on newsgroups. Now, you are very lucky in that you are able to use your
|> real name. But I am a teenage female and the reality is that it isn't
|> always safe for teenage females to give their real name over an open
|> posting. I have had a LOT of problems with this one and finally decided not
|> to use my real name on any newsgroups except in e-mail. You're not the
|> first person to "not take me seriously" because I chose a "fluttery" name.
|> (I admit, calling myself Morgaine, which I did for about a week, was
|> presumptuous, so I stopped. My Craft name, as I said in a previous post, is
|> the name of a more-or-less major goddess, depending on how deeply you're into
|> Welsh mythology, but I took it for one reason and one reason only: it chose mefirst.) If you want to talk about this further, feel free to e-mail me.
|> 					Rosaleen Dhu
|> "She danced on the waters and the wind was her horn,
|> The Lady laughed..."
|> 			--Lord of the Dance (pagan version)

And furthermore.

One of the most interesting, novel, and possibly important features
of internet news files is the unprecedented ability of people to 
control their visible personality.  Some people adopt several
different personalities in different forums, and there is much
for social scientists to consider in these behaviors.

IMHO, not only is it OK to adopt names, it's a great idea to adopt
multiple personalities.  In the past, I have tried to encourage
shy people (often women who told me that "I could never post things
like that") that they should make up a name to hide behind,
and then "pretend" to be competant, self-assured, and intelligent
in their postings.  Noone will know you are just pretending!

This note comes to you via my academic name, in which guise I pretend
to know what I am talking about.  Try to guess which posts come from
some of my alternative net personalities!

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: yet another weensy question from you-know-who
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:37:42 EDT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass) writes:

> We do indeed have a number of neat shell creatures.  We also have a fair
> number of shell-brain cretins who are rapidly getting their anti-human
> initiative shot down.

shot down?  things are hopeful then?  that's good news, since i plan on using
my inheritance, once i get it, to move to oregon, to join the Great Dyke
Exodus.  Oregon Or Bust!

now WHERE did i put that covered wagon....

                                        -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
 I wish her insight to battle love's blindness            ________
 Strength from the milk of human kindness         Silence \      / Action
 A safe place for all the pieces that scattered      =     \    /    =
 Learn to pretend there's more than love           Death    \  /    Life
                                  that matters               \/
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:8880 alt.mythology:1768
From: evc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Edward Van Cura)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.mythology
Subject: The Celtic Horned Goddess (was: Celtic)
Date: 7 Sep 92 04:17:05 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan


              The Celtic Horned Goddess

From *Dictionary of Celtic Myth and Religion* by Miranda J. Green.
Some of the earliest archaeological listings which claim Celtic origin
may in fact be Germanic in origin. Or the finds could possibly be
common to both peoples. The Celtic and Germanic peoples seem to blend
together at an early age. For a look at the similarities of the two
cultures and religions see H.R. Ellis Davidson's *Myths and Symbols
in Pagan Europe*. 

<<<page 60>>>
"At Saintes, Cernunnos appears twice on one monument: on the main surface,
he is accompanied by a female consort; on the reverse of the stone the
god sits cross-legged, in company with bull images. This link with a
female partner is interesting, especially because we know of a female
equivalent of Cernunnos: at Clermont-Ferrand (Puy-de-Dome) and
Besancon (Doubs) bronze figurines represent antlered goddesses."

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Thorfinn Einarsson                         "Nu em ek reidhr"  ---Thor
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: loki@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Favorite Bible Verses
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:34:17 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Sep11.024448.29528@cbnewsm.cb.att.com > mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon) writes:
 >In article <10SEP199220135953@rosie.uh.edu>, lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
 >
 >> >Converting Constantine didn't hurt either :^).
 >
 >> True.....
 >
 >I suspect I am ripping this from context, but I must say (as a Christian,
 >and reporting a substantial body of opinion within modern Christianity)
 >that I believe Constantine's conversion hurt a very great amount, indeed.
 >-- 
 >Michael L. Siemon		   "Oh, stand, stand at the window,
 >					As the tears scald and start;
 >mls@usl.com			   You shall love your crooked neighbor
 >standard disclaimer			With your crooked heart."

	Hmmm... Spiritually it was probably the death of 
the original christianity, and therefore a death wound.

	Politically it was a great help in letting the church 
become the new empire.

	Any connection between today's christianity and what the 
original founder (Yeshua, not Paul) taught is at best accidental,
and more likely depsite the wishes of the churches.
From: evc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Edward Van Cura)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: Fount of Esoteric Knowledge
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:55:43 GMT


>wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:
>Consider, for a moment, where the knowledge came from in the first
>place!

In your message you mention that the "`secrets' of nature are there 
to be found", "the rituals are there to be rediscovered". Then you 
quote an "elder" who says: "I practice my religion the same way my
paleolithic ancestors did.... I make it up as I go along!"

How can the quintessence of religion be found, be rediscovered,
while "elders" are professing to make it up as they go along?

>I decided that the
>easy thing to do was to teach the students how to learn what they needed
>for themselves, by observation and creative thinking.  (Yeah, that is
>the *easy* way, right! :-)

I would add that logic should also be brought into the process.
Creative thinking is a wonderful gift, but if it is given free reign
and not tempered with objective analysis, then the rediscovery can 
become a fantasy. 

>Fortunately, the folks who are interested in exploring the pagan
>religions are generally of a mindset that is already inquisitive and
>tuned to actually seeing the world around them.

My experience with many pagans in our NewAge reaffirms what your "elder"
said. They make up religion as they go along and denounce, shun, and 
attack those who would seek the true nature of paganism as experienced
by the ancient pagans themselves.

>The "old knowledge" came from somewhere, and where it came from it is
>still there, waiting to be found anew by those who have the heart to
>seek it out and recognize it.

In *Essays of Germanic Religion* by Edgar Polome' published by 
*The Journal of Indo-European Studies*, Monograph Series Number Six,
on pages 1-2 [insert <your religion> when you encounter "Germanic"]:

   "In recent years, the idea that man shapes his gods according to his 
   own being has received repeated confirmation in the study of exotic
   cultures; various efforts to apply this new knowledge to Germanic
   religion have led to careful reexamination of the scanty reliable
   evidence available in this field. But instead of carrying out minute
   historical research on the detailed development of the individual 
   deities by patching up a ragged image composed of aimless bits of
   evidence, the new trends focused their attention on pattern and 
   structure in Germanic religion, mainly according to three different
   approaches: (a) the Vienna school of anthropology; (b) the typological
   analysis of Mircea Eliade, based on the concept of archetypes coined
   by C.G. Jung and applied to religious studies by Karl Kerenyi and
   Erich Neumann; (c) the sociological approach, mainly developed in the
   works of Georges Dumezil."

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Thorfinn Einarsson     *     ALU ALU ALU     *     Odhinn er Alfadhir
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pmw2c@csissun12.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner)
Subject: Re: Wicca and the SCA
Reply-To: pmw2c@csissun12.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 23:54:12 GMT

In article <12SEP199213581699@rosie.uh.edu>, lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy
Stark Blandino) writes:

|> I have heard from official type people that the reason the
|> SCA doesn't allow pagan stuff is thus:
 
The SCA does not dissallow pagan stuff.  You can wear or carry any
symbol you like. The SCA merely ruled that
the pentagram cannot be used in an officially registered heraldic
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
device because it is associated with modern satanism.  That is an unfair
association, but it exists nonetheless.  Other pagan
symbols, such as horns, moons, etc, are all perfectly acceptable.
Considering the fact that the pentagram was not a pagan symbol
during the middle ages it shouldn't cause a problem.

That rule was not made to exclude pagans (the swastika is also not
allowed), but to protect the society from possible bad publicity.

|> I can understand this, I don't like it, but I understand it.
|> I feel however, that if we cannot display our beliefs on our
|> official heraldry then no one else should either.  
|> 

|> Barring any change consider this.  One knight wanted to put
|> his initials on his official symbol.  Therefore he devised
|> the background such that in abstract it was an M.  He then
|> put a double headed axe on top to form a T.  Tarl Mapt.
|> We could do the same thing.  We have symbols and symbolism
|> that they don't know, don't recognize, or think are 
|> different from what they really are.

At this point your posting is getting seriously paranoid.  The art of
heraldry has lots and lots of rules that when taken out of context
appear unfair, but they are not made to "get" people.  They come from
the historical rules of heraldry from the middle ages, and since the SCA
is interested in medieval recreation it only makes sense that they use
medieval rules.

					Paul Wayner
From: eburke@aludra.usc.edu (Kethry)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: yet another weensy question from you-know-who
Date: 9 Sep 1992 09:10:50 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


Aisla, I'm new here, but I used to work in a museum in the Echinoderm
section (the section with sand dollars if you didn't know) and can find
out for you if you would like where some are on the east coast Other than
Florida because From what I know about FA and what I've been reading here,
you might have decided not to go there...

Bright Blessings,
Kethry
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: "Jesus did not claim divinity" Part 1
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 13 Sep 92 19:54:56 GMT

In article <18vsavINNp32@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary) writes:
>
>I thought that everybody more or less knew about the huge gaping holes
>that would suddenly appear in their theories and beliefs when they tried
>to claim that the Gospels were biographies of Jesus.
>
>2. They were all written WAY after the fact- Mark, supposedly, around
>70 CE, Matt. & Luke around 75 CE, and John WAY after, around 100 or so.
>And according to the good Jebbie fathers at Fordham, who DO try to be
>scholarly about such things, John is more or less a compilation. According
>to Father Anginoli, a friend of my family and a specialist in canon law &
>Church scholarship, John's Gospel was most likely written by followers of
>John in an attempt to replicate John's style... and therefore is probably 
>the least reliable of the four accepted Gospels.

Reliable for what?  The three synoptic gospels were plagiarized from one
another in a big way; even the priest who taught my high school theology
class admitted this.  And, after the "fact" doesn't mean much, since
there is no real proof that Jesus existed, and too much inference by way
of other myths that the idea of a savior born of no earthly father and a
virgin, the son of the father and also the father, who dies a
sacrificial death and is reborn three days later, is not unique.  

As far as historical reliability goes, I don't think you can hand out
prizes to ANY religious writings.  Too many people have very blunt
ulterior motives in making them out the way they want.  (Of course this
happens in scholarly circles as well, but academia is fractured and
specialized enough that you can almost always dig out the original
information, especially since archaeologists and historians are
fanatical about preserving original information.) 

Blessings,
Janis
From: elton@sybase.com (Elton Wildermuth)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL COMPUSERVE POLICY ON USENET POSTS FROM COMPUSERVE
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:09:40 GMT
Organization: Paratheo-Anametamystikhood of Eris Esoteric, Edwin Meese Cabal

In article <T8ZqqB3w165w@drc.UUCP> alizard@drc.UUCP (alizard) writes:
> [quote apparently from James Perry of CompuServe:]
>All messages sent and recieved by members of CompuServe are
>confidential to those members, and any attempt to block messages
>is considered censorship.  [...]
>======================= end of quote ==========================
>In other words, if someone gets an accountmpuserve
>and uses it to post a meg of extracts from alt.sex.bondage
>and GIFs of bestiality onto  the Xtian newsgroups, Compuserve
>takes no responsibilites for the actions of its users. At all.

In other words, CompuServe believes in personal freedom (and will not
force any accompanying exercise of personal restraint), while alizard
does not.  Which of these would *you* characterize as a more liberal,
liberated, liberating attitude?

This is as good a demonstration as any I have ever seen that one need
not be Christian in order to exhibit a distressing narrow-mindedness and
willingness to censor others.  With just one small change in style of
worship, we have here the makings of a fine, upstanding Presidential
candidate who is sure to capture the Family Values vote.

Robert Burns:  "Ah, wad a gift the Giftie'd gie us, tae see oursel's as
others see us."

			-- Elton
+++
"The global kill file has worked quite well for me when reading news,
 you might want to learn how to use it."  -- James Perry
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: How many ______ does it take to change a light bulb?
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:22:40 GMT
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN

In article <003mqB1w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us>, donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal) 
writes:
> How many Gardnerians does it take to change a light bulb?
>    I can't tell you. It is a deep dark secret!
>    
> How many Family Traditionalists does it take to change a light bulb?
>    None. If oil lamps were good enough for Grandma they are good enough for 
us!
>    
> got any more? This is the thread for 'em!
> :) Maybe this should be crossposted to to rec.humor...

  From the Amerindian board ...

  How many reconstructionist traditionalists does it take to change
a light bulb?

  None.  When it is dark out, that is because it is night.
Go to bed.

  Ciaran.

  $uslinit; include oblig.sig <<
  "...And here, Queen Aphrodite, pour heavenly nectar into gold
   cups, and fill them gracefully with sudden joy."  -- Sappho >>
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: FAQ on Pagan Bookstores
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:38:47 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <9SEP199220241905@rosie.uh.edu>, lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
> Would someone like to create a FAQ listing good sources for books
> and other things for various cities.  People could write in for
> their city. 
> 
> I would do it, but I don't think I know enough about netting to
> do it properly.  However it would be good.
> 
> We might want to do the same thing for books, and "what is 
> paganism" etc.  I think creating some FAQ's for this group
> would be a good idea.
> 
> If someone is willing to tell me how to do it I would be willing
> to give it a shot.
> 
> Tammy

Actually the process is quite simple. Write an article stating what questions
you are addressing, and write the most comprehensive, least offensive answers
you can come up with. Post it under a title like "Proposed FAQ." If every
member of the newsgroup complains, you need to revise it. If people like it,
they will let you know, possibly by offering clarifications or additions to
your FAQ. Incorporate the suggestions you like or that seem popular. Be sure to
include an e-mail address. Post it at regular intervals once it gets
established (weekly, bi-weekly, and monthly are the most popular--perhaps yo
could post it every full moon  ;-).

I strongly encourage you to try it. It is actually kind of fun (and a hassle),
and you may learn a lot. This group desperately needs a FAQ on books--going
back over the "New Pagans and Reading" thread would be a good start. If you do
decide to do a FAQ on books, it's nice to include a brief description of the
books, so that interested parties can tell what would be best for them.

If anybody decides to take up a FAQ, I wish you well.

--Semhaza