From: shaun@octel.com (Attacking Deep Structure)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Re: Monomyl wire : Is it possible?
Summary: Digresses, but includes CP.tech stuff at the end
Keywords: physics, medecine, chemistry, EE, nanotechnolgy
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:43:56 GMT
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.

In article <1992Sep2.094806.784@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_rasmusseam@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>About that mono-filament wire... Yes, its possible.  Well, will be anyway...
>Think of it this way... WAY back in feudal Japan they had swords that were
>made of folded carbon.  They folded those swords as many as 400 times.  That
>gave you an edge on the sword that was approximately 1 atom thick.  

Wait, wait, wait.  Are you talking about watered steel, the stuff that has 
the water-looking ripples on the side?  You must be.  If memory serves, the
best swords were folded more than 400 times, perhaps as high as 2,000, and 
were made of steel, not carbon.  This did yield very sharp swords that kept
their edges very well, but I find it difficult to believe the edges were
one atom thick and stayed that way.  400 folds would produce a sword with
approximately 2^400 layers, which would make each layer thin indeed, if they
were all unform thickness.  However, it really, really seems like a one
atom edge would dull down a few layers as soon as you hit anything.  It 
doesn't seem like folding would affect the molecular structure of a linear
monomolecular strand, does it?  I know gold can be "to an airy thinness
beat" (only a few atoms thick) but you can scratch gold leaf from the 
substrate with your fingernail.
 
>Ie, about the best we can do now-adays is 200
>times.  That gives you an edge thats ~1.5-2.5 atoms thick... All of this is
>coming from memory, but I can go dig the lit if necessary...  

1.5 to 2.5 atoms thick?  That's an average, right?  :)  Yeah, I'd like to see 
some documented stuff.  This is the kind of thing that is neat enough that
lots of people have little bits and pieces of information stashed away that
are of dubious veracity.  Maybe there's an FAQ on one of the SCA or RPG
groups that addresses this.  I don't have easy access to a library, or I'd
look it up myself.  :-(

>Btw, I personally
>have a carbon-steel dagger that is folded 45 times and well, it goes through
>a stack of 5 quarters without dulling.  Pretty neat huh?

I've heard of watered steel swords that can cut through anvils and other
amazing things, but to be honest, I'm skeptical.  I'm not at all up on 
shear and the physics of severing, but I have a really hard time believing
claims like this.  It seems you could make a fortune selling kitchen knives
that would never go dull and would cut through anything.  On the other hand,
that's the implied promise that came with the Ginsu knife...

What happens when you jam a folded carbon-steel knife into a suit of armor
made out of the same stuff?  It might make some nasty armor-piercing 
bullets, or arrowheads.  Armor piercing arrows!  Yeesh.

To try to steer this back to CP somewhat, monofilament technology would be
great for lots of things besides cutting weapons.  Are you ready for a 
departure from the real world into SF?  If so, imagine:

- A flexible superconducting strand might make a good artificial nerve and
  would make a GREAT bus on a PC board... or even on-die
- Great light refractor toys for physics class
- Nanotech items with monofilament "muscles"
- Cheap high-quality lathes and precision industrial tooling machines that
  would allow six-sigma quality with the right control systems and
  application of statistical process control
- Scalpels.. unless surgeons rely on pressure feedback while cutting
- Subatomic particle physics research
- Cheese slicers where the wire doesn't break after cutting two slices of
  cheese (keep away from children.)
- Lawnmowers and weed-whacker type devices
- Chisels of joy for people who make statues and gravestones
- Some of the best burglary items ever seen
- Very precise measuring devices that would make Heisenberg spin in his
  grave, if you could find it, and if you were pretty sure he was dead.

Larry Niven used monomolecular technology at least a couple of times--those
"Guaranteed never to fail" ship hulls, and the stuff that held the black
squares together in _Ringworld_.

<free association mode off>

Thanks for reading this far!

@Man


-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  "Now is the time on Sprockets when we Lambada!"
              
Days of Our Lives: It softens heads while you do dishes!
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech