From: wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: education system
Date: 22 Jan 1993 21:38:44 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodin.cs.uh.edu

In article <1993Jan22.173140.4793@news.columbia.edu> jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim) writes:
>>I think that the system is so big that it will be difficult to be so specific
>>to individual level.  The question can be :
>>
>>     Which education system is good for YOUR CULTURE ?   
>
>No, I don't agree.  I know what *I* want.  I can tell you what *I* think.
>I have an idea of what to give to *my* children.

What I meant was macro-scopic view of the education system.
The micro-scopic things that you want as the above can be done by in
individual school level or teacher level.

In fact, your comments are very enlightening.  I wish Korea had various
schools, each of which uses its own specific method.
My kid is going to a kinder garden which uses "Montesori Method".
I am very happy with it (excep $$$ 8-( ).  
It does not give any pressure to kids to do something.

>I can't say for others.  See, it's much easier to be specific about
>individual level.  You talk to enough people, you have a pretty good idea
>what's going on.

Well, sometimes you use top-down approach, sometimes you use bottom up
approach.  And sometimes both at the same time.  
I think I was the one of the victim of (sort of) bottom up approach.  
Whenever Mr. Park's son faced enterance exam, everything was changed.

>By definition, any talk about culture is bound to be a generalization.  

But what is important is "granularity" of the generalization.
Should we generalize it to all Koreans ? Or only to drinkers,
Or only to smokers ?  Or only to wife-beater ?, Or  only to young
generations ? ...etc.

>It is about the general behavior of certain group of people.  It is mostly
>academic.  You can use it as a piece of information for yourself, but for
>it to be of any practical benefit, it is *you* who has to make a judgement.

This is precisely right. 
But I would not force my judgement to others.
And I would like to listen to others' judgements to see whether my judgement
is correct or not.
 "Koreans have this or that problem, thus Koreans are all like this or that."
It sounds just like Korean "BanGong DoDuck" text books :
 "North Koreans are all xxxx ".

>The big difference there is that you have much more flexibility here.  In
>US colleges, the major is much more loosely defined in first 2 years, you
>basically have more time to decide what you want to do.  It is also
>magnified by the fact that Korean highschool does not teach you anything
>beyond college.  It is fair to let the demand and supply dictate the
>market.  My point is that Korean students don't have enough knowledge about
>the market when they enter the college.

Yes. This is true (, I think).

>>As a result,
>>it is a well known fact that there are so few American students in 
>>basic sciences, which are filled by, as someone already said, lots of
>>international students.
>
>It was *their* choice.  If there is a fault, that's the industry's, not the
>education systems.  If you want to promote basic sciences, you create more
>jobs for them, and you invents more money in them.  

Even though it is ultimately the industry's fault, I think that it should
be controlled by government.  You are doing business, you have only limited
amount of money and you want to get profit. In most cases, you cannot afford
to hiring people for basic science research, let alone research facilities.
US government is doing relatively good job on this, I think, by supporting
lots of money for graduate schools for basic science as research funds.
Nevertheless, American students are not willing to come.
I think that that is why America is re-thinking its education system.
It was a cover topic in News Week some time ago.
It is interesting that such articles view Korean education system positively,
even though most Koreans (including me) don't.
I think that "Nam Eui DDeog" Theory also applies here ( 8-) ).


>Forcing highschool students to such fields by eliminating other possiblity
>is a lousy way of build an industry.  

I don't think that other possibilities are totally eliminated.
As you wrote in your original post, it is just more difficult than in USA.
Yes. It is not so flexible as USA, but you can still do that.
So, if you MUST go to some field since there is a strong reason for it,
I think that most such students can change.  I have seen many such students.

Also, people are not really sure whether specific field is really what they
wanted, unless they go very deep in that field (senior or graduate level).
I think that that is why many graduate shcools in USA require
*strong motivation* in their application forms, which is a very good method.
On the other hand, Korean graduate schools only see the enterance exam score
(+ GPA ?).  This is a somewhat sad story.  At least graduate schools should 
open their minds, I think.

In my case, I joined Radio/Communcation club when I was in middle school.
In there, I made several tube radios, amplifiers, ...etc. It was a lot of fun. 
I decided at that time I should go to Electronics dept in college,
but found out that it was not really what I wanted.

>How effective can it be, with bunch of malcontent workers?

Yes. Right.  In fact, this is a problem.
BTW, Korea has a tendency, which cannot be found in USA.  
So called, "Departmentship".
Even though some students are not happy when they they entere a department,
it seems to me that they (but not all) eventually become "The Department Man".
And they are proudly wearing their own department T-shirts.
And they seem to like their fields.

I think that this is one of the characteristics in Korean College culture
and that this will alleviate such malcontention a little bit.

I am not arguing which one is superior. As you already said, superiority
does not really matter, even though we may take a good look at it.
What I wanted to discuss or know
is that probably there are reasons why the professors (most of whom are 
educated in USA) had to choose such inflexible way, unless we do not
assume that those professors are stupid.
And if there are problems in there, then how should we overcome those ?
Will the new solutions create other problems ? ,...etc.


>>In Korea, students have much less freedom, but in fact, it acts as
>>balancing the number of students in all area (good for the whole country,
>>bad for the unsatisfied students).
>
1) >Unless it is not good for me, it is not good for the whole country.  I
   >think more satisfield people make a better country.

2) You may also think of this way : If it is good for the whole country, its
   benefit will be eventually coming to you.

2) is the one which has been requested by Korea, who has been in 
      under-development country.
I think that it is time for Korea to adopt the way 1) which is the concept of 
   'developed country'.  Or is it not yet ?


>Andy "The Steak Lover" Kim

I know that everyone is dumping me about my Cow, but please be forwarned
that my cow is protected by Attack Rooster ( 8-) ). 
Any other cute, or lousy or whatever dumping is welcomed.
Anyway, my wife is a Rooster Lover.  My family is a DongMool NongJang ( 8-) ).


-- 
____   ____  ____ ____________________________________ (___) _________________
|  |   |  |  |  |  W. Woody Jin (wjin@cs.uh.edu)       (o o)      Moo.... 
|  |   |  |__|  |  PhD Student. Research Asst.  o=======\ /  I'm  a Cow Lover.
|  |   |        |  Dept. of Computer Science   / |     ||O   My wife  was born
\  |---|  |--|  |  University of Houston      `  ||'---||    in Cow year. Mooo
 \____/|__|  |__| _______________________________^^    ^^_____________________


Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean