HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: laurahal@microsoft.com (Laura Halliday)
Subject: Re: Weather on I-5?
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:31:28 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <BzC5zH.EyG@neon.rain.com> jeff@onion.rain.com (Jeff Beadles) writes:
>Stuart Lewis wrote:
>>	"turn into a skid ..."
>
>andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner) wrote:
>>This is for rear wheel drive.  If you have front wheel drive, turn in
>>the direction that you want to go.  In snow country, this alone was a
>>good reason to buy front wheel drive -- the natural reflex is the right
>>one in this situation.
>
>I disagree with this, but then again I grew up in a area that received
>a lot of snow, with a rear wheel drive car.  Turning into a skid is
>a natural response. :-)

What has always scared me is that you can get a driver's licence
anywhere on the continent and not know how to control a car in a skid.
I think you should have to demonstrate skid control on a skid pad -
but then I'm the sort who finds deserted snowy parking lots and
practices skid recovery. To know theoretically that you turn in to
the skid is one thing; it's another thing to have actually done it and
know what it feels like. In a front drive car I'd probably use power
to pull me out of the skid, and in a rear drive car I'd back off the
power - but I'd know which worked better, because I'd have tried it
before I really needed it.

Oh yeah, expect snow in the Siskiyous. I flew from San Francisco
to Vancouver B.C. the other day and there was snow on the ground
from just north of Redding to about Eugene.

...laura
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: vernon@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Gregory Scott Vernon)
Subject: Re: Weather on I-5?
Keywords: Siskiyous, preparedness, planning ahead.
Organization: Boeing
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:23:36 GMT


Of course, another choice is to avoid I-5 thru that region and take
US-101.  This is a nice route, which rarely gets snow and has
some great scenery.  I'd suggest turning to the coast at Eugene, 
then you can hop over to I-5 in CA, or drive the rest of the way
south on 101.  This might take an extra four hours, but you might
spend that dealing with the snow on I-5 anyways..


Cheers!
Greg


Greg Vernon  Engineering Standards Distribution System |  An Earth is a
             Boeing Materials Technology               |  terrible thing
             internet: vernon@bcstec.ca.boeing.com     |  to waste.
             at&t:     (206)234-3865                   |
This is your Earth.  This is your Earth on Carbon Dioxide.  Any Questions?
Disclaimer: My opinions are not necessarily the same as Boeing's
-- 
Greg Vernon  Engineering Standards Distribution System |  An Earth is a
             Boeing Materials Technology               |  terrible thing
             internet: vernon@bcstec.ca.boeing.com     |  to waste.
             at&t:     (206)234-3865                   |
From: mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: driving in snow (or other low traction conditions)
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:25:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: Ikkoku-K.MS-C.724710317.1103527590.mrc
Organization: University of Washington
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0

David Barts writes:
>In pnw.general you write:
>>Some of these people who talk about how they ``know how to drive in
>>snow'' (and by extension, most everyone else doesn't) and spin yarns
>>about how they made it through snow-covered passes without bothering
>>to put on chains remind me somewhat about those general aviation
>>pilots who brag about how they know how to fly in thunderstorms, and
>>how they do it all the time.  True, you can fly into the side of a
>>level 3 cell and come out the other side none the worst for wear.  But
>>you can also fly into the side and come out the bottom; and even
>>experienced pilots do so.
>
>Translation:  "Hi, I'm from California and I'm here to tell all you
>folks who learned to drive in the Rockies and the Midwest how to drive
>in the ice and snow.  Trust me."

Translation: "Hi, I'm not a PNW native, but I want to be cool just
like you PNW natives.  Like you, I am bigoted and prejudiced but oh so
politically correct.  So I will bash `Californians' -- even if they're
not really from California -- so I can fit right in with Emmet Watson,
the True PNW Native!"  [It's curious how real PNW natives rarely play
the California bashing game.]

Get a clue; I'm not from California.  I lived there a few years,
that's all.

>I learned to drive in Northern New Mexico (in a town where a "big snow"
>means they announce on the radio station that you should move your car off
>the street because if the snow buries your car the plow might not see it
>and run into it by mistake), and I found the comments by the poster from
>Wyoming to be practical, easily understandable, and right to the point.

Don't confuse situation avoidance with the skill to get out of a
situation once it exists.  Also, don't fall into the trap of believing
that snow driving conditions in Santa Fe or Cheyenne (or at the
passes) prepare you for snow driving in Seattle or Boston.

Am I advocating performance driving schools?  Yes!  You'll learn more
in a couple of days at a performance driving school than you will in
all your seat-of-the-pants experience.  That is, if you're not too
stubborn when they make you unlearn some of your dearly-held SOTP
truisms.
From: dxxb@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Barts)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: driving in snow (or other low traction conditions)
Date: 21 Dec 92 04:52:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec21.045201.24465
Organization: University of Washington

Mark Crispin <mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM> writes:

>David Barts writes:
>>Translation:  "Hi, I'm from California and I'm here to tell all you
>>folks who learned to drive in the Rockies and the Midwest how to drive
>>in the ice and snow.  Trust me."

>Translation: "Hi, I'm not a PNW native, but I want to be cool just
>like you PNW natives.  Like you, I am bigoted and prejudiced but oh so
>politically correct.  So I will bash `Californians' -- even if they're
>not really from California -- so I can fit right in with Emmet Watson,
>the True PNW Native!"  [It's curious how real PNW natives rarely play
>the California bashing game.]

My, touchy about that "California" issue, aren't we?

Mark, if your article wouldn't have had the same pompous tone that
so many of the Texas drivers had about driving on snow in NM (the
very same Texans who then demonstrated their utter incompetence at
negotiating an icy, banked hairpin curve and ended up 30 feet down
a road embankment) I probably wouldn't have bothered responding to
it.

-- 
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: jrm@pgroup.com (John R Mudd)
Subject: Re: driving in snow (or other low traction conditions)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:21:06 GMT
Organization: The Portland Group

In article <1992Dec17.202937.2729@kopachuk.uucp> dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:
>This brings to mind my favorite Snowy Weather Imbecile - the 5 MPH Driver.
>Starting up a hill?  Go 5 MPH.  Going down a hill?  Go 5 MPH.  Coming
>to a slight rise?  Better get it down to 5 MPH before you start up.

Nyah.  What about the idiots who stop in the middle of a busy road to
jack up their car and put their chains on?  I've never seen such a stupid
manuever.

Geesh.

>but the guy in the
>Cadillac who has sitting parked at the bottom of the hill (why?  Don't
>know - he started moving again when the car in front of me was about
>300 feet away - probably wondered what was taking us so long.) should
>have been ritually disemboweled, too.  MOMENTUM!  MOMENTUM!  MOMENTUM!

Probably had just gotten back in his car after putting his chains on :)

... John
From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Weather on I-5?
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:00:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: glia.crystal.724291226
Organization: University of Washington

In <1992Dec13.172918.26548@u.washington.edu> tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:

>What's typical for weather on I-5 over the {Christmas|Solstice} holidays
>between Seattle and, say, Sacramento?  I'm only interested in weather that
>affects driving.

>Are there places that tend to get shut down by snow?  If so, how long do
>they stay shut down?  Are there particular times that tend to be bad?
>I know that there are places set up with signs to warn when chains are
>required, so I assume that at least sometimes they are needed, but how
>often does this happen?  Is there anything else I should know before I
>try this (I've only driven this in the spring or summer before -- never
>winter)?

>--Tim Smith

I don't know about "shut-down", but I would definitely take chains along
for the Siskyous (like Mt. Shasta).  My parents used to always drive to
Long Beach for Xmas, and we always hit snow someplace.  I remember once in
Portland getting trapped on a drawbridge and the dang thing had to rise
with our car stuck in the snow on it!  It all worked out...
       
God luck!
Crystal
  ;>
Xref: sparky pnw.general:2950 alt.society.civil-liberty:6956 alt.activism:19649 alt.individualism:6115 rec.bicycles.misc:1601 talk.politics.misc:64589
From: jimc@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Jim Cathey)
Newsgroups: pnw.general,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.activism,alt.individualism,rec.bicycles.misc,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Date: 17 Dec 92 01:51:47 GMT
Organization: ISC - Bunker Ramo, Spokane, WA

In article <1992Dec15.212152.12550@hounix.org> wlarkin@hounix.org (Ward Larkin) writes:
>If a bridge is dangerous, should the government's only
>responsibility be to post a sign which says that the
>bridge is dangerous?  According to you, the government

Here's a thought: If such signs were posted, _and_ a number of
'dangerous' bridges had collapsed, d'ya suppose people might actually
pay some attention to them?  I think they might.  In which case
such a gov't would actually be doing a responsible thing by posting
such a sign.  Of course, some might find the training period a
bit harsh...

-- 
+----------------+
! II      CCCCCC !  Jim Cathey
! II  SSSSCC     !  ISC-Bunker Ramo
! II      CC     !  TAF-C8;  Spokane, WA  99220
! IISSSS  CC     !  UUCP: uunet!isc-br!jimc (jimc@isc-br.isc-br.com)
! II      CCCCCC !  (509) 927-5757
+----------------+
			One Design to rule them all; one Design to find them.
			One Design to bring them all and in the darkness bind
			them.  In the land of Mediocrity where the PC's lie.
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Keywords: Helmet Laws, Drug Laws, etc.
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:51:56 GMT

ray@Celestial.COM (Ray Jones) writes:

>I agree, if you want to kill yourself by not having a helmet, go ahead.
>However, if I have to help pay for your funeral, that is another story.  If
>you are under age, under insurred, or broke, then my tax dollar pays.  If
>you are injured and any of the above, I have to pay.  That I object to.
>That, I think is the whole point to the helmet law.  These people are
>irresponsible, not only to themselves, but to the whole socity.

It's not just limited to helmet laws.  A couple of stories to show you
what I mean:

#1.  A friend of mine, an 18-year old girl, recently got into a 1-car
accident.  She has been living on her own since she was 16, so, in order
to have money to live on, she didn't have insurance.  She now has a VERY
sore back and neck, and medical bills totalling over $10k.  Did I forget
to mention she didn't have medical insurance, too?  Even though she'll
recover fully, she's going to be hurting for awhile both physically and
financially, especially since she has to now work out some sort of
arrangement to pay back the hospital for all the medical work.  Her
supposed saving grace, "At least I didn't hit anybody else, or I'd
REALLY be sunk."

#2.  Another friend of mine was rear-ended by a guy who, because he 
recently lost his job, had cancelled his auto-insurance policy so that
he, his wife and 3 kids could have SOME money for the Holidays.  My
friend, being just too kind for words, chose not to report the accident.
She was lucky, but then, the situation was pretty hopeless even if she
DID report the accident.  Why?  The guy who hit her already had a 
suspended license, so if she reported the accident, the police would 
have hauled his carcass off to jail for driving with a suspended license
AND not having insurance.  My friend felt it was simply better to not
report the accident, thereby he could work to pay for repair (not as
bad as suspected), or at least be able to go out and look for work
rather than having to sit in the slammer and have his family go w/o
food.

Now, as far as helmet laws, I really don't give a rats rear about whether
somebody riding his motorcycle has a helmet on or not, with the caveat
that I NOT have to pay WHATSOEVER if this person, through their own
negligence, causes an accident in which the helmetless person suffers
a head injury because the human head was not meant to skid on road surfaces
without sustaining damage.  There are many motorcycle accidents where a
person driving a car is actually the cause of the accident, but I also
know the other side, particularly since I have a brother-in-law who
delights in travelling in excess of 80 mph on his bike on not only highways,
but rural roads as well.  And I KNOW he's not the safest of drivers, but
he IS damn lucky!

allen
From: mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: just when you thought you had heard it all
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:30:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: Ikkoku-K.MS-C.724879834.377401575.mrc
Organization: University of Washington
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0

This little news item came to my attention a few days ago.

It seems that a girl[*] made it into her high school's football program.  I
believe she played fullback, although I'm not sure.  During a game, she got
hit and seriously injured; subsequent surgery was necessary to remove her
spleen and a kidney.

She is now suing the school district for megabucks on the grounds that the
school's athletic program failed to disclose to her that football is a sport
in which you can get seriously injured.

The Sun had a withering editorial on the subject, on how this girl's
selfishness turned an advance towards sexual equality into a huge setback.

I wonder, with the current push to get homosexuals into the military and to
get women into combat duty, if we will see similar lawsuits about failure to
disclose that combat is an activity in which you can get seriously injured,
maimed for life, or killed?

[*] Obligatory Political Correctness note: most female high school students
are under the legal age of adulthood, and it is doubtful that an adult student
would have been permitted to participate in a youth sports program.  Also, her
behavior in filing the lawsuit is childish.  ``Woman'' seems inapprorpiate.
From: jerryg@jaiser.rain.com (Jerry Gaiser)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Weather on I-5?
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 15:34:28 PST
Organization: Jerry's Attic - Gaston, OR

andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner) writes:

> This is for rear wheel drive.  If you have front wheel drive, turn in
> the direction that you want to go.  In snow country, this alone was a
> good reason to buy front wheel drive -- the natural reflex is the right
> one in this situation.
> 

This one of the biggest things I miss from my old Datsun 310. You had to
try real hard to lose control in the snow. I'm driving a Jeep Comanche now
and unless I'm real careful, I'm all over the road.

--
Jerry Gaiser                                      1-503-359-4017 (voice)
Usenet:  jerryg@jaiser.rain.com                   1-503-359-5111 (bbs) 
Fidonet: 1:105/380          
PBBS:    n7pwf@n7pwf.or.usa.na                    ..I read banned books..

Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Subject: Re: driving in snow (or other low traction conditions)
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:29:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.045418.22907@eskimo.com> wix@eskimo.com (Dennis Wicks) writes:
>
>If you have a _front_wheel_ drive, keep your front wheels pointed
>down the highway and give it a little gas, and you will quickly
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>be on your way.

If only I could!

This brings to mind my favorite Snowy Weather Imbecile - the 5 MPH Driver.
Starting up a hill?  Go 5 MPH.  Going down a hill?  Go 5 MPH.  Coming
to a slight rise?  Better get it down to 5 MPH before you start up.
Last night I got behind one of these safety-conscious folk going down
the Rosedale Hill on the Peninsula - 5 MPH is fine at the crest, but
by the time you're 1/4 mile down the 25% grade, your rear end gets
tired of going that slow and wants to lead for a while.  Can't pass on
the curves, and of course the ditches on both sides are littered with
the automotive carcasses of those who had previously tried to make it
up or down the hill at 5 MPH.  I made it down OK, but the guy in the
Cadillac who has sitting parked at the bottom of the hill (why?  Don't
know - he started moving again when the car in front of me was about
300 feet away - probably wondered what was taking us so long.) should
have been ritually disemboweled, too.  MOMENTUM!  MOMENTUM!  MOMENTUM!
The three things to keep in mind when driving in the snow.  It will
either work for you or against you.  If you can't figure it out stay home!

-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp           |   SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez-  |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!tacoma!dcb      | "Zinc & cadmium plating stops |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: <DEAD>        |  rust & acts as a lubricant!" |
From: news@sumax.seattleu.edu (Usenet News)
Newsgroups: seattleu.general,pnw.general
Subject: NEC's Lisa Mandelkorn Gives Concert in Seattle, December 20
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:45:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: sumax.6101
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Seattle University


BOSTON, MA--December 10, 1992--Popular Boston area soprano Lisa
Mandelkorn, who completed the New England Conservatory graduate-
level opera program a few years ago, will perform a concert
December 20 in Seattle.  The performance will take place
at 4:00 pm at the United Church of Christ on Mercer Island.

Her performance will include Barber's Nuvoletta and Verdi's
"Caro nome" from Rigoletto, along with numerous works by
Richard Strauss.  Ms. Mandelkorn, who will be competing in the
upcoming New York Metropolitan Opera competition, sang a number of
these earlier this week at NEC, in preparation for her Seattle
concert.  Her performance was vigorously applauded by the NEC audience,
and very positively reviewed by NEC opera coach Edward Zambara.

The concert will be taped.

Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: randall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Zaphod Beeblebrox)
Subject: Re: Weather on I-5? 
Organization: Hairballs Anonymous
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:21:25 GMT

In article <MS-C.724567097.662824084.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM> Mark Crispin <mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM> writes:
>Laura Halliday suggests backing off on the power to recover from a skid in a
>rear drive car.
>
>Not good, unless your skid is in an American Piece of Junk (APoJ) that tends
>towards understeering.  Backing off on the power in an oversteering skid will
>cause more weight transfer to the front of the car, which is exactly what you
>don't want.
[ some lengthy definitions deleted here ]
>The right thing to do in an oversteering situation is to apply enough steering
>to straighten the car out, KEEP OFF THE BRAKES, and wait until you are pointed
>in the direction you want to go, with your rear wheels behind your front
>wheels.  Then, PUNCH the throttle -- this will cause a sudden transfer of
>weight to the rear wheels, which will dig in and your car will happily go
>where you want it to go.

I agree with you *mostly* here. But DON'T "PUNCH" the throttle. Instead,
apply the correct amount of throttle to maintain the proper line around the
curve. I'm sure the author didn't litteraly mean to put the accelerator to
the floorboard, but I thought this need clarifying for those literal minded.

Disclaimer: My newsreader/poster has been screwy lately. If this gets
attributed to the wrong person, it's not my fault... REALLY!

As the Church Lady says, "could it be... Saaaa-TAN?". Ha ha ha... that
cracks me up.
-- 
  Michael W. Randall           | Don't put animals with sharp teeth
  randall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com | or poisonous fangs  down the front
   ...!uunet!bcstec!randall    | of your clothes.   -- Mike Harding
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal)
Subject: Re: What does ``turn into a skid'' really mean?
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:20:46 GMT

In <MS-C.724568758.1147902781.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM> Mark Crispin <mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM> writes:

>This is an FAQ, which many people are too embarassed to actually ask because
>they think that everyone else but them has a clue.

>``Turn into the skid'' means, essentially, that you need to get your front
>wheels pointing in the direction the car is going.

>Let me explain with two examples:


No need...just let Bill Cosby's voice from one of his old humor albums
guide you during your panic:

        (slow, deep voice from the back of Cosby'y's mind)
"Turn in the direction of the skid" 
    
        (Cosby's high-pitched yelling at his thought)
"HUH?!?  What kind of advice is that?!?  Sounds like if someone throws you
a left hook, you lean into it!

        (deep voice again)
"Trust me"




Anyway, it works for me in my rear-wheel drive... :>

(I *think* it is from "Why is there Air?" or "$100 Car".  It's been too long
since I heard it - except when I find myself in a skid...then I hear it loud
and clear!)


Crystal
  ;>
From: jeff@neon.rain.com (Jeff Beadles)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Weather on I-5?
Date: 16 Dec 92 05:02:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: neon.BzC5zH.EyG
Reply-To: jeff@onion.rain.com (Jeff Beadles)

Stuart Lewis wrote:
>	"turn into a skid ..."

andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner) wrote:
>This is for rear wheel drive.  If you have front wheel drive, turn in
>the direction that you want to go.  In snow country, this alone was a
>good reason to buy front wheel drive -- the natural reflex is the right
>one in this situation.

I disagree with this, but then again I grew up in a area that received
a lot of snow, with a rear wheel drive car.  Turning into a skid is
a natural response. :-)

	-Jeff
-- 
Jeff Beadles		jeff@onion.rain.com
From: monaghan@cac.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan )
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Weather on I-5?
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:11:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec16.011105.1798
Organization: UW Computing

In article <1992Dec13.172918.26548@u.washington.edu> tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
>What's typical for weather on I-5 over the {Christmas|Solstice} holidays
>between Seattle and, say, Sacramento?  I'm only interested in weather that
>affects driving.
>
>Are there places that tend to get shut down by snow?  If so, how long do
>they stay shut down?  Are there particular times that tend to be bad?
>I know that there are places set up with signs to warn when chains are
>required, so I assume that at least sometimes they are needed, but how
>often does this happen?  Is there anything else I should know before I
>try this (I've only driven this in the spring or summer before -- never
>winter)?
>
>--Tim Smith


1) Portland can get hit with freezing rain/sleet 
2) I-5 begins to climb south of Eugene, and can be icy/snowy around Roseburg
3) The mountains at the OR/CA border others have mentioned
4) The stretch from Redding, CA to Sacremento can get very dense fog AND
   freezing temps AND nuts who still drive at 70+ MPH


Happy Trail
Tracy