HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: What are Solid State Flippers
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:06:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

The main thing about S-S flippers is that, mechanically, they're
just the same as the older flippers.  Same coil, plunger, link,
crank arm, shaft, bushing, and finally the flipper bat.
Guaranteed to go flabby in two weeks, or no money back.

Only differences are the means of turning on the main power current
(transistor instead of direct button contact) and more important,
the means of dropping back the current to a much smaller "holding"
value after the stroke is completed.

DE used an electronic timer to cut back the current after a fixed time.
Williams kept the good old EOS contacts, but uses them to cut back
to a lower voltage (hence current).  I think Williams also uses a DE-style
timer as a backup, so a broken EOS contact leaf won't toast the coil
if you hold in the button.

I keep wishing someone would use a ROTARY SOLENOID flipper action,
and get rid of the plunger and link junk once and for all!
I've seen so-called "rotary solenoids" in old computer line printers.
They give about a 90-degree twist when energized -- just what you
need to flip pinballs.  Mounted under the playfield, with shaft coming
up thru and the flipper bat on the shaft, they would get rid of all
the parts that wear out so quickly.  The extra cost would pay for
itself in reduced maintenance and fewer pissed-off players who
stop feeding quarters to pins with wimpy flippers.
-- 
	"I don't think so, Al"
  Programmers Do It on paper.  So do puppies.
	knudsen@iexist.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: drew@juliet.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
Subject: Re: Layout/Pinball sexism?
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 09:00:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.141854.686@altair.selu.edu> pcs$1610@altair.selu.edu writes:
>>  Has any one else (besides me) noticed the inherent sexism in some of the pin designs?  HSII seems to worst protagonist in this respect - is it really necessary to propagate such out-moded stereotypes?  Is it likely that a hitch hiker is gonna be wearing next-to-nothing, carrying *nothing*?  And worse, still, is s/he gonna say things like "ohh nice car", "ohh nice wheels"? (I forget what else the hitch-hiker says for the moment)  To me, this sort of stereo-type got thrown out years ago, but it is s

Marketing will use advertisments targeted according to their demographics.
The demographics say that more men watch football than women, so the 
beer companies give us women in bikinis during half time. Pinball is 
no different.

When I walk into an arcade/bar/etc, I see more men than women playing pinball. 
Obviously, marketing at Williams has noticed the same thing.  Theoretically,
"sexy" back glasses, playfield art, etc will attract this audience. 

Sexism in pins will go away when there are more women playing pinball
than men.

-- 
Microsoft is responsible for propogating the evils it calls DOS and Windows, 
IBM for AIX (appropriately called Aches by those having to administer it), but 
marketing's sins don't come close to those of legal departments.
Boycott AT&T for their absurd anti-BSDI lawsuit.
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: drew@juliet.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
Subject: Re: The Getaway (Was: Re: What about Star Trek???)
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 08:46:30 GMT

In article <h=gzsg=@rpi.edu> sigma@picasso.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin) writes:
>gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Red Mountain) writes:
>>Comments on The Getaway? Who loves it? Who hates it? And why?
>
>But the worst is the left drain.  Putting a kickback there is just a lame
>excuse to have a gaping left scoop.  It really doesn't mean anything, since
>the default setting (I believe) is to not relight the kickback every ball.
>At least LW3 offers you that.

This makes you play the six targets at the bottom of the playfield,
and helps to keep the game challenging.  If you play these targets 
like you should, not only will kickback stay lit, but you'll also 
relight the super charger and keep it maxed out at 10M.

-- 
Microsoft is responsible for propogating the evils it calls DOS and Windows, 
IBM for AIX (appropriately called Aches by those having to administer it), but 
marketing's sins don't come close to those of legal departments.
Boycott AT&T for their absurd anti-BSDI lawsuit.
From: knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: King of Diamonds
Summary: Valuable classic
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:46:04 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <BvD336.KBw@news.udel.edu>, bradstoc@bach.udel.edu (Craig A Bradstock) writes:

> Going back several decades (hope that's ok), I have a pinball machine called    King of
> Diamonds.  It has been sitting in the basement several years.  I'd appreciate
> any information on this game, most importantly, when it came out.  Apparently
> it used to be quite popular.  Also if there is any antique value to it (not 
> that I plan on selling it) I would like to know. 

Yep.  K of D came out in '67 and is often found in lists of "Classic"
and/or "Collector" games.  I have its add-a-ball version, Diamond Jack.
The vertical roto-target makes for an interesting game.

If yours is in nice shape it could be worth up to $500.
Keep it well maintained and play it -- its value can only increase
as time goes by.  That is, if new young collectors grow to
appreciate old pins; right now it seems most (hardly all) antique
collectors are old enuf to have put their trolley fare and cafeteria
change into these babies.

Generally, Gottliebs made in the 60s are highly regarded by collectors,
since they were fun to play and popular in their day, had good artwork,
and often some sort of animation in the backglass (the card flags in yours
sort of qualify).

BTW, many Williams games of the 60s are terrific too, especially the bells
and pop bumper action.  I personally love 60s pins for their mix of
flipper skill shots and "gunching" (bumping the table) action.
The same can be said for 50s woodrails, but they're slower.
-- 
	"I don't think so, Al"
  Programmers Do It on paper.  So do puppies.
	knudsen@iexist.att.com
From: tyager@maxx.UUCP (Tom Yager)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: What about Star Trek???
Date: 27 Sep 92 03:24:22 GMT
Organization: New Hampshire Public Access UNIX

In article <1992Sep25.113913.20203@kth.se>, d91-jal@dront.nada.kth.se (Johan Almen) writes:
> No. Star Trek does not compare to T2, largely due to Data East SS flippers
> and DE software.

What a glorious thing it will be to watch the great red herring, the solid-
state flipper, die as an issue in my lifetime. TAF ushered SS flippers into
the W/B line, and they're staying. Look for the lightening bolt designs on
the flipper tops.

SS flippers last longer, require less maintenance, and are in all ways
technically better than the old mechanical jobs. If I were feeling nasty,
I'd say something like "Williams' new flipper feel is courtesy of Data East."
But that's not my style. I get enough hate mail from Williams bigots as it
is.

Software's quite another story. Get a look at LW3 or Star Wars if you want
to see what DE's doing in software now. As I said in an earlier posting, they
haven't quite got it as together as Williams, but given the size of their
team, I think they're doing a remarkable job. Better software, hot licenses,
killer display work (I hope that continues), better sound, and soon an
expanded manufacturing facility...DE is moving into the big leagues. They
still have a lot of catching up to do, but considering how long they've
been in business compared to Williams, DE is sure learning fast.
(ty)

-- 
Tom Yager, BYTE Multimedia Lab Director
           Author, Addison-Wesley UNIX programming book (Summer, 1991)
           Author, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich multimedia book (Fall, 1992)
           decvax!maxx!tyager, maxx!tyager@bytepb.byte.com
From: kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keith Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Stuck balls and tilting
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:26:42 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

If you smash the plunger shot out of mega frustration, you can usually wedge
the ball under the bear kick ramp and the very top-most area just beyond the
main loop around theh back in TAF.  Also, on FunHouse, again by smashing the
plunger, we had a top-left corner that was mysteriosly missing its cover, so
I got it caught in that area up there.  Absolutely no hope for tilting THAT
ball out of its position...

keith
-- 
|kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu|  / Amiga! |"'Relax,' said the nightman,          |
|.....Keith P. Johnson.....|\/ Not bad!| 'We are programmed to receive.       |
|.1711 Whipple Dr. Apt. 11.|           | You can check out any time you like, |
|...Blacksburg, VA 24060...|Pinball KEF| But you can never leave.'"  - Eagles |
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: musjndx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Jonathan N. Deitch)
Subject: Re: huh?
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:46:18 GMT

truth@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Ain't that the TRuth) writes:

>I just read through over 100 articles (I've never seen this list
>before, but I am a fan of pinball) and I saw mentioned a couple of
>times something about "Credits 0" vs. "Credits 0."  Could someone
>please fill me in on what that's about.  There was also mention o

Well ... the period is simply a flag for the operator (or repairman) for
the machine to let them know there's a problem.  Usually it's a switch or
sensor that the machine hasn't heard from in a while and is assuming has
gone bad.  Happens all the time with the drop target under the skull in T2.

- Jonathan

jdeitch@gisatl.fidonet.org
musjndx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu
From: kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keith Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: ramblings on older games
Date: 29 Sep 92 03:29:56 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

I know what you mean about the backhand!  I don't know how many times I've
tried it (too many!), but I swear it must be possible to hit an open vault on
TAF with the right flipper.  I've done it a couple of times, but that was when
the ball was moving and I just happened to get lucky, basically.  The question
is whether or not it's possible on an average TAF to get that shot when the
ball is caught on the flipper...  I don't think I've done it yet.

The playfield for FunHouse and TAF are definitely very similar.  There are
obviously differences, but even the skill shot is basically the same in the 2
pins.  We'll get something new sometime...

keith
-- 
|kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu|  / Amiga! |"'Relax,' said the nightman,          |
|.....Keith P. Johnson.....|\/ Not bad!| 'We are programmed to receive.       |
|.1711 Whipple Dr. Apt. 11.|           | You can check out any time you like, |
|...Blacksburg, VA 24060...|Pinball KEF| But you can never leave.'"  - Eagles |
From: rogue@cellar.org (Rachel McGregor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Layout/Pinball sexism?
Date: 30 Sep 92 04:57:47 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

drew@juliet.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt) writes:

> When I walk into an arcade/bar/etc, I see more men than women playing pinball
> Obviously, marketing at Williams has noticed the same thing.  Theoretically,
> "sexy" back glasses, playfield art, etc will attract this audience. 

When I walk into an arcade or bar, I usually see more men than women,
period.  But the women I see in arcades are nearly always playing pinball
machines rather than video games.  If the manufacturers aren't careful, they
could end up alienating a growing audience.

> Sexism in pins will go away when there are more women playing pinball
> than men.

You mean it'll just disappear?  There won't be 'equal time' for sexism 
against men, to make up for the cheesecake?  Bummer.

           
    Rachel McGregor (rogue@cellar.org)  research contractor, modem junkie
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 The Cellar BBS: 215/654-9184: quickly becoming the Net's most infamous site
 If you don't believe that, look for rogue, darling, richh, techie, or revpk
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: iott@rtsg.mot.com (Joel K. Iott)
Subject: Super Mario in Mushroom Land (PREVIEW)
Organization: Motorola Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 21:41:07 GMT

As reported in the pinGame Journal, Premier has created a mini-pinball machine
for use as a redemption (ticket) machine.  It's called Super Mario in Mushroom
Land (or something...  I forget the exact title). 

It's much smaller than a full-size pinball machine - and much closer to the
ground, so the kiddies can play it without a stool.

Price: 25 cents for one ball
no extra balls, "Replay" gives you more tickets not credits

The game itself is fairly easy as there are no outlanes, only a drain hole. 
The main objective is to hit drop targets.  Hitting the drop targets gets you
to a new "land" and gives you tickets. 

A ramp awards mystery awards, one of which is the Video Mode of the full-size
Super Mario Bros.  pinball.  There is a "bumpers" round, where the bumpers
award big points, two-ball multiball, and a bonus count-down mode. 

I noticed some palm trees on the playfield that looked like they were extras
from Surf-n-Safari.

I actually enyojed this game quite a bit.  (I have always liked drop targets)
The game is pretty easy since there are no outlanes. I got the ticket record
(39 tickets), all of which I gave to some excited little girls. 

I told them that they should practice and then they could get as many tickets
as I did.  I noticed that this is the one of the few redemption machines that
can be played for a while.  Most of the redemption games end their games pretty
quickly, and don't have too much skill involved.  I wonder if the arcade
management is going to post a "kids only" sign, since the adults can play this
game for a while. 

I am happy Premier has created this redemption pinball machine.  Hopefully, it
will attract kids to play pinball.  I encourage kids to play pinball when I get
the chance, and sometimes I let them play on my credits.  I figure this is a
good way to ensure the longevity of the pinball industry, and get them away
from the Str**t Fighter II/M*rtal Kombat games for a little while.  I just have
to make sure I play all the credits at once, so no little "future pinball
player" resets my game by pressing the credit button.  :)

Likewise, full-size Super Mario Bros. is an O.K. game, and hopefully will
attract some younger players.

--
Joel Iott
From: falknemj@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Magna Save (was Re:  Licensed Themes)
Date: 24 Sep 92 21:53:55 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

In article <yHXkRB2w164w@jwt.UUCP>, bbs-garfield@jwt.UUCP (David Eison) writes:
> BK2K had a button for Magna-save?  I think I seriously missed something 
> when playing this game..  (I've only played about 5 times.)  What the 
> heck IS magna save, and what is this about a button for it?  Any comments 
> would be appreciated, I feel like I'm REALLY missing something...

  Dave, yes, BK2K had Magna Save on the right side.  This was a feature so that
any time you felt that the ball would drain down the right side, you could push
the extra button and save the ball from draining with a magnet.  It'll hold the
ball right there.  But, like the kickback on the left, you had to relight it 
(on the wheel or K-N-I-G-H-T targets) to use it again.

  The button is below the flipper button on the right side.

  You have to push the button; the feature is not automatic.

						Mike Falkner
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: mpalmer@encore.com (Mike Palmer)
Subject: My FLASH still hangs when I use the flippers simultaneously -HELP!
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:24:13 GMT

I have a Williams Flash machine that exhibits the following problem:

Displays go blank and machine will not reset - must cycle power to cure.

I have narrowed the problem down to the flippers.  To date it only happens 
when both sides are used simultaneously  (Usually when my 4 year old boys
are playing - I don't often flip together!)

I have replaced the diode on one flipper coil & added an addition diode to
the other two.  (3 flippers total).

I changed the large smoothing capacitor (30,000 uF), to no avail.

It looks like someone may have modified the way the flippers work.  The
right lower flipper has a "double" switch on it.  When the flipper reaches
the end of it's  travel it makes one contact & breaks another.  The other
flippers, just break a contact.  Is this normal - the manual doesn't seem
to give the flipper wiring details.


Any ideas or new things to try would be VERY much appreciated.
From: kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keith Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: ramblings on older games
Date: 2 Oct 92 13:48:50 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

The 4-way combo is made by shooting the ball up the ramp, through the adv. x
shot, up the left ramp, and into the swamp.  Either the first three or last
three will give you a three-way combo.

The 3-way is 5 M (as you probably know), and the 4-way is 10 M.  But really,
a 4-way is worth much more because you get the bear kick, the bonus x (can be
worth a whole lot), the million + and a star for thing, and 5x graveyard.  Oh,
and you get the 5 M too for 3-way.  So we believe the 4-way to be worth a min.
of around 30 M on the average.  (Taking everything into account.  Much more for
a high graveyard or bonus.)

keith
-- 
|kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu|  / Amiga! |"'Relax,' said the nightman,          |
|.....Keith P. Johnson.....|\/ Not bad!| 'We are programmed to receive.       |
|.1711 Whipple Dr. Apt. 11.|           | You can check out any time you like, |
|...Blacksburg, VA 24060...|Pinball KEF| But you can never leave.'"  - Eagles |
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: ung@felix.filenet.com (Bill Ung)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: The Getaway (Was: Re: What about Star Trek???)
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:13:35 GMT
Reply-To: ung@fritz.filenet.com (Bill Ung)
Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, CA

In article <9227016.24500@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Red Mountain) writes:
|In <1992Sep25.051016.21006@colorado.edu> drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt) writes:
|
||The scoring is pretty bad. Ie, video mode is worth half what the 
||(Even Williams fell into this "trend"  with HSII) jackpot 
||normally is (10 mil vs. 25 mil).  
|
|Half? The jackpot in The Getaway is 25 mil and if you play video mode the
|way I do (shift straight up to 5th and sit on one of the lines and dodge)
|video mode is worth 27 mil. I love it :-)
|
|The Getaway is currently my fave. I love how this game is so well thought out.
|From the rumbling at the start of each ball (and revving by hitting a flipper)
|to the supercharger, this is one great game (when it's well maintained, of 
|course).
|
|Comments on The Getaway? Who loves it? Who hates it? And why?

Hate is an awful strong word, but even likes barely makes it.  HS2 is
the sequel to HS, yet HS2 has nearly nothing on it that I loved so much
about HS Classic.  The one thing they did preserve was the weak plunger.
Old HS games would always suffer from worn out plunger springs which
resulted in missed plunger-ramp shots.  A lot of HS2 games started out
like that, and I'm sure others followed as they aged a month or two,
since there wasn't that much leeway to fall back on.  The game itself
is okay, but there didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for the
stoplight targets, at least I couldn't follow any logical sequence,
like I could on HS Classic.  Also, the freeway spinners were gone,
which really bummed me out.  I don't know of a HS fan who didn't like
the sound of those spinners going with the 1000 arrows lit.  I dunno,
the game basically seemed like a few momentos from HS Classic, along
with the HS name on it, and a whole bunch of gimmicks and gadgets
(oh, and a big ugly yellow traffic light) to make a pin that would
hopefully make money based on it's name.  It's almost as bad as
licensing.  The one thing I did like on it was the music, cool stuff.

Bill Ung
  ung@filenet.com
From: nrp@csug3.cs.reading.ac.uk ("Fanatical winds" Neilski)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Fun with TAF
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:29:04 GMT
Reply-To: nrp@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk
Organization: University of Reading

Oh joy!  Oh bliss!  TAF here is sort of not working again!

Late last week the left lower flipper packed up (I still managed 60M off
five balls though.)  The guy who repaired it must have had an off day
because there are now FOUR balls in the machine.  So you have to fire a
ball quickly enough at the start of each ball to get it in play before the
machine pops the next ball out - if you let both balls in play, then once
you lose one ball it goes into the bonus sequence.

Oh yes, and Thing doesn't work either.

Still, I managed 260M which is not bad for me even when it's in full
working order... :-)

-- neilski

-- 
nrp@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk  \--------------------------------------------------
----------------------------\ "Oook?"  "Just a half, then."  "Oook."
"How do you manage to pay for all this stuff?  Every time somebody gives
you any money, you eat it."  "Oook."  "Amazing."                 -- Sourcery
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sigma@picasso.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin)
Subject: Re: Layout/Pinball sexism?
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:51:50 GMT

jutta@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Jutta Degener) writes:
>Yeah, guess when women will start playing pinball?

Never, at the rate things are going.  Well, maybe not that bad, but things
aren't going to improve any time soon IMHO.

>Anyway, I think there are a lot of excellent pins around with (to me)
>surprisingly unsexist stories, although the details nearly always hint
>at the presumed player's sex.  "Good man! Shoot again!"  Ouch.

I think Gomez called everyone "man" - it was just his thing.  They must
have decided they couldn't pass up the opportunity to put the quote in.

>The obvious fun idea would be to build a "real" sex pin -- although
>it's probably too goofy for anybody to really pull it off. 

I've always thought Bride of Pinbot is all about sex.  And you can take
quotes from TAF and re-evaluate them with a dirty mind.  Lends new meaning
to things like "That's the spirit, Thing!  LEND A HAND!"

-- 
Kevin Martin
sigma@ipl.rpi.edu
"We're gonna need another Timmy!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: wwg2101@venus.tamu.edu (GILPIN, W.W.)
Subject: Re: What are Solid State Flippers
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 02:54:00 GMT

>I can't stand it any more!  There's lots of msgs with hints on what solid
>state flippers are.  I understand the way the old ones work, with two
>solenoids (well, I mostly understand).  But how are SS ones different?

Solid State flippers are supposed to hit harder or softer depending on how
hard the player taps the flipper button. Data East tried this for a while. I 
don't think they're doing it anymore. They had reliability problems and also
were inconsistent (my nature). I hate 'em cause even if I time a shot perfectly
I also have to hit the button with a certain amount of force to get the ball
to go where I want it to.

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