From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: What is pleasure, fun, joy ?
Date: 25 Dec 1992 15:52:00 -0800
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Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu


In article <47569@ogicse.ogi.edu>, abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
:Earlier I mentioned that pain and  suffering  are to a good extent due
:to  mental conditioning. This can be extended to pleasure, joy and fun
:as well. Happiness might be a different thing. I hope some people will
:disagree with me.

Pain and suffering are not the same. Pain is our physiological or
emotional reaction to something. Suffering is a purely mental event.
By the same token, pleasure is physiological and emotional, while
happiness is mental.

(Just out of curiousity, do you extend different meanings to joy and
happiness, and if so, could you elaborate on this?)

There is also another classes of things we find
pleasurable/unpleasant, based on mental events.

:What is  pleasure ? When we ask ourselves this  question, we find that
:there is no simple answer to  it,  and the concept is somewhat hollow.
:We  have  conditioned  our  minds  to  think  that certain  things are
:pleasant, even  though they  might be  painful  (scratching,  drinking
:bitter drinks, etc.) Travelling is often considered a pleasure by many
:people. We will consider this separately at some other time.

Again, many of these pleasures are tied to physiology. And how is a
bitter drink painful, by the way? (As I sip my black coffee here ;)

:
:Why  is it pleasant to  listen  to some kinds of music, which  differs
:from person to person ?  Why is it that  some kinds of music are sheer
:noise for some people, but music to others ? We have cheated our minds
:and forced it to  think that certain kinds  of sounds are musical, and
:others are not. 

To a certain extent this is true. However, the quality of music is
also tied in with its ability to evoke certain responses from us, so
part of the pleasure/distaste of music is intrinsic to us.

Why is it pleasant to look at mountainous scenery with
:a river or a lake, trees and birds ? Why is it not so pleasant to look
:at slums ?   Why  are some tastes good  and others bad ? Why  are some
:chemicals perfumes while some others smell bad ? I think it is all due
:to conditioning of the mind. It is a different issue in psychology how
:this  conditioning takes place - why certain  things are pleasant  and
:others not, but the classification : pleasant/unpleasant has no basis.
:

Again, some is mental, some is physiological. Tastes are
physiological. Smells are physiological. If something smells or tastes
good or bad, it has to do on some level with the appropriateness to
your body of taking this substance in.

:It should be easier to attain a balanced state of mind (sthitapragnya)
:once one realises  the hollowness  of these  concepts of  pleasure and
:pain.

Suffering is hollow, but not pain. Suffering is a mental state. We
have no choice in whether or not to feel pain, if circumstances induce
it. We do have a choice, ultimately, of whether we suffer from this
pain or not. To make this concrete, let's say I have a headache. No
matter what I do, the physiological response is there. However, to the
extent that I dwell mentally on that event, or turn my attention to
other things, I will or will not suffer.

:What  is joy ?  What is ecstasy ? It is  a feeling which arises in the
:mind  under  some  circumstances.  That  arising,  however,  is  again
:baseless. Some circumstances result  in  joy,  others  don't. How does
:mind decide what is joyful ?

As suffering and happiness are purely mental events, to a certain
extent, we are taught what constitutes happiness and suffering. Part
of what I am doing is decoupling suffering and happiness from external
events, to the degree I am able. If I feel pain, I acknowledge that is
my body or my heart telling me something needs adjustment if possible.

Part of the way I interpret the Buddhist notion of unattachment is a
decoupling of suffering/happiness from external events. Happiness and
suffering are mental states that I can choose to dwell in.

This is where Maya comes in. I "know" that all I have to do to be
happy is to remember to be happy. But somehow I manage to forget this
a lot. My practice is in part learning not to forget.

All IMHO and IME.
				Lorenzo
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************