From: ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: What to read at sci
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:02:06 GMT
Organization: British Telecom

In article <jjjm!sr.bavafa@netcom.com> bavafa@netcom.com (Hooshyar Naraghi) writes:

> >
> >P.S.  However, I urge you to respond to questions (and misrepresentations)
> >about HISTORICAL FACTS or cultural aspects of the Baha'i community.

> I see, so there are exceptions to the plea.  Because _you_ happen to like
> historical facts or cultural aspects, you do urge Baha'is to respond.  Wait
> a minute, I am getting it now.  Isn't this plea of yours originating from the
> fact that Mark Towfiq talked about religious healing miracles that happen
> to be a topic not favored by you :-)

Well done, Hooshyar!  Even though you have noticed the PS above, you went on
for a page or two interpreting my words as if they implied "Victim
Responsiblity".  I am sorry (and understand) if all these Baha'i-bashings on
the net (a reflection of Baha'i persecutions back home) has given rise to a
sort of siege mentality in which the slightest criticism of Baha'i religious
propoganda (itself a legitimate activity) gives rise to a perception of asking
Baha'is to "shut up and say nothing".  Remember my comments were directed at
Kamran who gave a rather long response to a theological question and called it
"the _beginning_ of an answer"!

My only aim was to end this sort of "beginning".  In this way, I think I have
actually done something good for your religion!  Kamran is certainly an
effective preacher, but alas his line of arguments may work better in Sangsar
than in SCI!  It seems to be the second time I am picking on him.  The first
time was on the magic figure of 1000+260 Hejri Qamari.  (Sorry, Kamran.  In
both occasions I was prompted by your comments, and not by your name.  It just
happened that on both occasions, the remarks came from you.)

> >Poems by Qorrat-ol-Ein for instance? Or her bold campaigns for women's rights?

> Was it you who few months ago stated that in your opinion religions had not
> contributed anything to the progress of human civilazations?  Now if by 
> _your_ granting I post few nice poems from Tahereh or share with you her
> campaigns toward liberation of Iranian women, how would you characterize her
> actions?  Would you say she was influenced by the message of the new religion?

The answer is a certain yes!  There is no doubt that she was influenced by the
new religion.  I never said that "religions had not contributed anything to
the progress of human civilazations".  What I said was the following (I repeat
it because I think it is a statement of fact):
------------------------
NO RELIGION has ever added to the common knowledge of humanity, whatever
its divine claims and its source being the "All Knowing and Infalliable" being!
------------------------

It is a fact that if you scour any religious text, you will see no material
fact mentioned in it which was not already known or discovered by a human
being (including the proclaimer of the religion as a human being).  That was my
point.  No one can deny the effect of religions and religious movements on the
course of history and people (both individual and society).

> I bet 10 pounds NOT!

So I won the bet!

> >Hooshyar, are you related to Molla-Ahmad-e Neraghi (writer of Me'raaj-os-Sa'aadeh)?
> >Was he (or did he become) a Baha'i?  I am curious.

> I can't say.  I do not know the name you mentioned.  I checked with my father
> who is the oldest member of the family and he had not heard of such name.  Can
> you tell us more about him or his book, if you know him more than his name or
> hisk book?

So then you are not!  I do not know much about him except that he was a 19th c.
(13th h.q.) molla and wrote the aforementioned book (a classic in religious
morality reflecting mainly patriarchial-feudal values).  I heard once that he
became a Baha'i later in his life.  (Please see also the PS below.)

> A poem by tAhereh follows, regardless of the outcome of the bet!  Enjoy it.

Thanks.  It has aleady been well received, as I hoped.  Keep up the good work!

-hossein

PS.  And why did I pose this "personal" question?  This was asked by one of
your co-religionist and my response was as follows:

My "personal" question to Hooshyar was a diversion tactic.  Both to make him
come forward and respond to my post (which worked!) as I found him one of the
most interesting to hear and least dogmatic amongst the Baha`is I know on the
net, and also to lead the thread of discussion away from theology and to
history, culture etc (which also worked partially).