HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shrdlu@willow.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True)
Subject: Re: Sacrifice
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 15:15:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.041624.12078@u.washington.edu> duniway@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Duniway) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.014502.15534@ulowell.ulowell.edu> rickheit@dragon (Erich Rickheit KSC) writes:
>>
>>I'm honestly concerned that this question was asked. The sacrifice is
>>central to so many pagan myth cycles, so central to my understanding about
>>how we are spiritually and physically bound to the earth. Are there pagan
>>groups who don't have a sacrifice theme in their beliefs? How do they
>>reconcile this with a connected view of the world?

> Give me a break.  You don't see animals wasting food to demonstrate
> how connected with the world they are.
...
> traditions that believe the conservation and utilization of the
> worlds treasures is a sacred act of equal merit.  There are many
> paths.

And I second it... Many traditions make offerings rather than
sacrifices. I consider the concept of sacrifice to have implications
of guilt, and therefore unnecessary for my world view. Although I am
happy to offer water to the Earth during a ceremony, or to spread
flower petals, incense, and beautiful things about, I certainly don't
think of them as sacrifices. They just contribute to the spiritual
experience by their beauty.

Lynda
-- 
shrdlu@rowan.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True)
Work Phone - (310) 812-1660 or (310) 812-1570
TRW, One Space Park Drive, R2/2062, Redondo Beach, CA
From: cookliwj@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: I'm looking for a book . . .  
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:22:45 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

In article <29EA06FC.27239@noiro.acs.uci.edu>, cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> A different book, but I've been looking for it for twenty damned years
> and would gratefully borrow money to buy it.  It is responsible in large
> part for my love of reading and voracious appetite for books.  It is a
> simple collection of fairy tales, not at all gruesome like the Grimm's
> fairy tales.  It is one of a set of (I think) three books called "Under
> the Magic Umbrella", "Under the Green Umbrella", and "Under the Stars
> and Stripes."  The one I'm looking for -- and have been since I was
> about eight -- is "Under the Green Umbrella," and if anyone has ANY
> information at all, I am willing to reimburse you.  There are many
> stories in it; if I recall correctly two are called "Elsie Piddock
> Skips in her Sleep," and "The Bean Boy."  It never occurred to me to
> post this question, and there are probably newsgroups that are better
> suited to it.  HOWever, if anybody has any information, please please
> please please post it.  It may be hard to find; it was old even when I
> was young.
> 
> On a related note, does anyone know how you go about borrowing books
> from the Library of Congress?  I've heard that they have all sorts of
> books from stuff like this to more hairy political junk.  Is there a
> sort of central library in the country where I might find something like
> this, and is it the L of C?
> 
> Many very happy thanks for ANY information,
> Blessings,
> Janis
> 
> 
> P.S.:  I'm not kidding about the reimbursement, although I am in
> somewhat straitened circumstances.  This book means a very great deal to
> me, and I *will* reimburse anyone who can get me in touch with a copy.
>  
I BELIEVE THE BOOK THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO IS TITLED "STORIES TOLD UNDER THE
GREEN UMBRELLA" I REMEMBER THAT I HAD IT AS A CHILD, ALSO. I JUST LOVED THAT
BOOK, IT SEEMED OLD TO ME THEN, TOO, (I'M 44). I HAD IT UNTIL A FEW YEARS AGO,
LOST OR MISPLACED DURING MOVING. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT WAS PART OF A RELATED
GROUP. SHOULD YOU FIND IT, PLEASE POST WHERE YOU FOUND IT, I'D LIKE TO HAVE IT
AGAIN,ALSO.                   l   i       k        e                           
  d   L   D        ,          ALSO.         
 N
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: spinoza@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Prince Lev of the Domovoi)
Subject: Re: Seeking Polish Witches
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 03:19:56 GMT

I> He used to take her out into the woods where a stream ran, and teach  
her
> about plants and animals.  One day she said that he had a chicken in 
> a little shed he had built out there. He killed the chicken,
> pulled a "red string" out of its middle and tied it around her wrist.
> She said he was very solomn while he did it.  She didn't tell me if
> he recited or chanted or said anything about it at the time.
> 
Well, a red string would protect her against the evil eye...........



lev
From: egnr76@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Defects (was worship of greek gods)
Date: 13 Apr 92 13:39:26 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <29E6093F.5262@noiro.acs.uci.edu > cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
 >of awful diseases that should have been bred out like cystic fibrosis,
 >spina bifida, tay sachs, leukemia.  Not to mention the others that don't
 >exactly kill you but just make your life miserable like diabetes,
 >scoliosis, and sciatica.  Then there's stuff that you can live well with
 >but is a pain in the ass, and would get you killed in very short order
 >in a less techie society, like myopia.
 >
 >Take your pick.  Today's society is not eradicating defects.  It's
 >allowing these defects to continue so we get less healthy.  And I'm not
 >talking about things like virus diseases like smallpox.  I'm talking
 >about genetic and structural problems that can make a person untenable
 >in a less techie society.

	I read somewhere that myopia may actually be caused by reading,
or more generally by excessive use of the close focussing eye muscles.
(THis seems plausible but not for all cases), which distorts the shape of
the eyeball.

	This leads to the general idea that our technological society
is creating a new set of "defects" to which humans are adapting
as they evolve. You can supply your own examples. Primitive societies created
their own set of "defects", like chronic tooth/gum erosion.

	It is possible that the people with "defects" may, given the
incentive, sharpen their native intelligence in order to get round them.
If there is anything in Lamarckian inheritance theories (And I believe a
machanism for this has recently been established, but as usual my mempry lets
me down on details) This should lead to a general increase in intelligence in
a technologically oriented population,

	Well, enough speculation for now
From: cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: I'm looking for a book . . .  
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:50:03 GMT

In article <1992Apr17.022246.312@cnsvax.uwec.edu> cookliwj@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
>In article <29EA06FC.27239@noiro.acs.uci.edu>, cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>> A different book, but I've been looking for it for twenty damned years
>> and would gratefully borrow money to buy it.  It is responsible in large

>I BELIEVE THE BOOK THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO IS TITLED "STORIES TOLD UNDER THE
>GREEN UMBRELLA" I REMEMBER THAT I HAD IT AS A CHILD, ALSO. I JUST LOVED THAT
>BOOK, IT SEEMED OLD TO ME THEN, TOO, (I'M 44). I HAD IT UNTIL A FEW YEARS AGO,
>LOST OR MISPLACED DURING MOVING. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT WAS PART OF A RELATED
>GROUP. SHOULD YOU FIND IT, PLEASE POST WHERE YOU FOUND IT, I'D LIKE TO HAVE IT
>AGAIN,ALSO.                   l   i       k        e                           
>  d   L   D        ,          ALSO.         
> N

Not only did someone get in touch with me about it, but in such a way as
to embarrass the living hell out of me.  

They looked it up in the computer catalogue that my own university
uses, damn it.

Give it a shot.  You'll probably find it in a college library.

Blessings,
Janis C.
 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rjb@milton.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Subject: Re: Need references for FBI report on satanic activity in U.S.
Keywords: satanism
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 04:57:00 GMT

I suspect what you're looking for is Kenneth Lanning's "Satanic,
Occult, Ritualistic Crime:  A Law Enforcement Perspective," which I
have as an appndix to a book by Shawn Carlson and Gerry O'Sullivan
called _Satanism in America_ (El Cerrito, Ca:  Gaia Press, 1989).
According to the Acknowledgements, "Special Agent Lanning's report
is reprinted from _Police Chief Magazine_ with the kind permission
of the author."  The date on the report is October 1989.  The book
itself is a bibliographic dilly; it also says it's published by Ockham Press
in Berkeley, CA.  If there's an ISBN number on or in it, I haven't
been able to find it.

Good luck!

--LeGrand
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan-Christians(was Re: Animal Sacrifice (was: Re: Raising
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:29:08 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Apr14.134141.2867@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>, nc313127@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
> Now, stop me if I am wrong but:
> 		1) To be a Satanist, you have to believe in Satan(Lucifer, the 
> 		   devil)

Probably true, but some self-described Satanists might disagree. There are
people who call themselves "Satanists" yet are atheists.
 
> 		2) To believe in Satan, you have to beleive Christ(or God) of
> 		   the Bible.

That depends. "Satan" is a good word to describe an entity of abosulute evil.
The understanding of the word may differ from the Christian one. Granted, some
(but not all) Satanists believe in a principle of good as well, which may or
may not correspond to Christ and/or God. Satan could also be an absolute,
beyond good and evil (shades of Nietzsche!).
 
> 		3) If you believe in Christ, you are a Christian.

Only if Christ is your primary deity. You could believe in Christ's existence
without believing in his divinity, or you could believe in his divinity without
making him your focus.
 
> 		4) Therefore, Satanist are Christians(or Anti-Christians if you
> 		   prefer).

First:  see above.

Second:  Satan may have more functions than just opposition to Christ (e.g.
perptrate evil, have a good time, spread "I Love Satan" grafitti throughout the
world). A deity should not be defined exclusively by one of its purposes.

Third:  Why is Christian equivalent to Anti-Christian? Opposites may be
equivalent in philosophy; they definitely are not in language. Your equating
the two is somewhat like equating smoking and non-smoking areas at a
restaurant (in principle they are opposites; in practice there may be some
diffusion of concepts).
 
> 		5) Then how can Satanist be pagans?

I never said they could. But, since that's your question, I'll respond by
asking for a definition of pagan. Without that, it's a little difficult to
explain why certain elements should be excluded.

One more thought:  if the Satanist were worshipping Satan in the aspect of Set,
would they then qualify as pagan? Considering borderline cases could bring you
closer to understanding where and why you draw the line between the two groups.

> 		6) Or are there just a lot of pagan-christians running around
> 		   that I don't know about?

I don't know about them either; they're undefined (do they resemble division by
zero?). I think any pagan-christian would be self-proclaimed and easy to spot
if you asked them.
 
> Azure
> "Me, Myself, and I are three different people."

--Semhaza
Disclaimer:  I am a Satanist. I believe in Satan. I am not a Christian, nor am
I a pagan. If you have problems with any of this, check your hostility level
before you flame me for mine.
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Cult of Thor?
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:34:50 GMT
Reply-To: Leo Smith <shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Organization: Gated to News by demon.co.uk

krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (Doug Krick)
writes (amongst other interesting and Cola oreinted magick)

>It may sound like pure bullshit, but hey, it works! (Think about it.
>Coke is one of the few things that is spread worldwide. Even amongst
>the aboriginies of Austriala, if there is a shread of truth in the
>movie "The Gods Must be Crazy!" (Although probably ONLY a shread of
>truth...)

Whatt!!!!! Australia?? That was filmed in South Africa and features
(I believe) Kalahari Bushmen.

You must get your aboriginal _right_ :-)

P.S. I don't think there was a shred of truth in the movie, except
that I spoke to someone who knew one of the cameramen... who said
that they did fly the bushman into Johannesburg, and his eyes got
wider..and wider...

It was a parable, not based on fact, but on what might have been and
probably ought to have been. An African 'Huckleberry Finn'
From: cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Jesus was a pagan and lonely wiccians
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:08:43 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.165113.2823@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> nc313127@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
>I got some questions.(I can here you all panicing now!)
>
>	1) I have heard that Jesus Christ was originally a Celtic Myth (maybe 
>	about Merlin) that was perverted-i mean modified- by the Mediteranian
>	culture(s) for some reason.  Does anyone have any facts, speculation,
>	or ideas?
>

The Celts certainly had myths about gods dying and being raised up three
days later, and gods having sons that were also them, but I don't know
if this was kidnapped from the Celts.  The Medi cultures also had
similar gods -- read Dionysius and Apollo.  TONS of gods were born of
virgins with no earthly fathers, and died annually to be brought back to
life.  There are literally TONS.  I think your question is far too
specific.  Jesus was not a corruption of any PARTICULAR myth but just
one of many similar ones.

I think.

Blessings,
Janis

Janis Cortese           ||   "The United States is the only country to  
U. C. Irvine            ||    have gone from barbarism to decadence  
cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu ||    without passing through civilization."            
========================||                 -- H. L. Mencken
From: loren@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Discordianism (was: "What does PAGAN mean anyway?")
Summary: who really knows anything about the old eris, these days?
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:12:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: wmkt.loren.27
Organization: Wharton Marketing

Eris may or may not have drawn a distinction between creative and 
destructive chaos. As far as I know, the only mention of Eris is in the 
prologue to the Trojan War, and some scholars have claimed it was merely a 
mispelling of erinyes. Anyway, I would tend to agree with Tim's unvoiced 
assertion that Eris is a trickster figure, whatever her original mythology 
may have been, and whether her original mythology was written by Malaclypse 
the Younger or whether she was originally worshipped as a titan or pre-
titanic goddess. When you look at other trickster figures, such as Loki 
(another of Tim's favorite characters), you discover that they were all over 
the map. They did good things. They did bad things. They did stupid, self-
destructive things. They were gods in myths of creation and amusing tales, 
and it was not for humans to imitate them, unlike the gods who served as 
role-models for human action, such as Zeus and Hera, Thor and Sif.
-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller              LOREN@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu
Shoes are the most basic prerequisite for liberty
From: cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: warfare and women
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 15 Apr 92 00:59:16 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.000658.18340@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pciszek@isis.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
>Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>
>>what gunnora said!  women, taken as a species, are NOT more
>>peace-loving than men...  i know *I* would kill if i or my
>
>Women, taken as a species, are members of the exact same species as men.
>This may seem like a nit pick, but I thought I should point it out because
>many women do intentionally try to make "men" a category separate from
>"humans".  (For example, any time men are called "males" and women called
>"women" in the same document, the question is implied: male whats?  Obviously
>not male versions of whatever women are, or the the women would have been
>called "females".)
>

No, it's not a nitpick, but I think by saying that explicit "as a
species," ailsa was trying to say that she WAS using the word in an 
unusual way and KNEW it.

And, sometimes you oscillate between "man/male" and "woman/female" when
you write abut this stuff.  It's what I've seen, anyway.  I've never
seen any writer stick with one or the other, or at least I've never
noticed it, and forced language use usually slaps you across the face
and demands to be noticed.

Blessings,
Janis 


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: fritzs@microsoft.com (Fritz Sands)
Subject: Re: Herbals Request: Stomach Nausea
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:03:42 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

In article <28111@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes:
| 
| It doesn't go without saying, actually.  It's possible that
| cannabinoids don't cross the placental barrier.  If they do, though,
| they might pose a risk to the heart of the fetus.  In the absence of
| solid information, it's better to be safe than sorry.

And also, there is the fact that pot is smoked.  Smoke inhalation will
result in CO (carbon monoxide) binding to hemoglobin, lower oxygen
levels to the fetus, etc.  Also, smoking anything leads to ingestion
of a wide range of chemicals from the combustion -- not a good idea at
all while pregnant.

   Fritz
From: Vitriol@f155.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Vitriol)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Psychic Hotlines
Date: 5 Apr 92 10:05:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: mintir.702566085.F00001

GL>Yeah, they bug me a bit, mostly because at $3/min, a real tarot reading at
GL>about an hour <I *know* they don't give one>, that's $180!!! hey, *I* could
GL>be doing that!

Try calling up and asking, "What do I have in my pocket right now?"
___
 * SLMR 2.0 * "True liberty consists in fearing neither men, nor gods."
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Warfare and women
Date: 12 Apr 92 17:03:08 GMT
Reply-To: Leo Smith <shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Organization: Gated to News by demon.co.uk

At the risk of being flamed (probably by ailsa:-))
I have to say that I agree with shava a lot on this - that womens
agrressive instincst are (culturally? biologically?) channelled away
from direct physical actions towards underhand methods. I don't think
it is a coincidence that there are a lot of anecdotal statements
about this matter - e.g. the female of the species is more deadly
than the male - feme fatale - or even the rather unpleasant usage of
a term referring to an identifiable female piece of sexual apparatus
to represent a man who is devious and treacherous.

Thank you shava, for at least highlighting some cultural perceptions.
I think this whole aggression thing needs a better viewpoint than men
are - women aren't and if women had their way there wouldn't be wars.

PS - anybody read 'the gate to womens country' Sheri Tepper?

I nearly bought it 4 times, but finally didn't.
From: Farrell.McGovern@f60.n308.z1.fidonet.org (Farrell McGovern)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: dowsing
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:26:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: mintir.703008195.F00001

In a lo-rez cyberspace object, Doug Krick @1:396/10 texuralized the
following thoughts onto the reality grid of my fav VR co-ordinates:

 DK> From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (Doug Krick)
 DK> Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

 DK> How would one create an aura-dowsing rod???

     Hey! Don't point that thing at me!!!! :-)

 DK> The Reverend Officer Doctor Doctor (Mr. MsD)
 DK> Douglas L. Krick, D.D.
 DK> POEE Pope of the Greater and Lesser Wheaton, Il area

     All Hail Discordia!

fnord,
     Farrell
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ai210@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Steier)
Subject: Re: Berkeley Morris 1992 Performance Schedule
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 04:33:37 GMT


YES  YES   YES  YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Morris Dancing is really great stuff. Rigour Morris, the Cleveland/
Kent Ohio team will be dancing at dawn on Beltaine in Oberlin Ohio.


Last year A Toad in the Hole, the English Country Dance band which
whom I play hammered dulcimer, did a Maypole Dance.


be well
josh
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: duniway@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Duniway)
Subject: Need references for FBI report on satanic activity in U.S.
Keywords: satanism
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 02:43:52 GMT


Whoops, I forgot to change the subject header.  Lets try this again.

>I need to find a copy of the FBI report on Satanic murders in the U.S.
>that was discussed here some time ago.  If anyone knows the title, author, and yyear of publication could you please mail them to me?  Much obliged and 
>I'll wish good karma on anyone who can help me out.  (for the suspicious I
>need it because I teach an undergraduate class in the sociology of deviant
>behavior, and this whole issue makes a great example.)  
>
>duniway@u.washington.edu     Robert Duniway
>
From: markbr@radian.UUCP (markbr)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: psychic hair hotline
Summary: answer and a question
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:06:33 GMT
Organization: Radian Corp. Austin, TX

In article <1992Apr6.162042.1@zodiac.rutgers.edu>, edberg@zodiac.rutgers.edu writes:
# Hi again!
# 
# What have I got in my pocket?
# -Hands?
# -String or nothing?
# -A very dangerous unadorned golden ring destined for a volcano?

obviously the last - but are you sure it's *only* a volcano?
# 
# On the HAIR thing-
# When to cut it?
# Don't. Let it grow. Singe the ends if you have to.
# And for those of you plagued with knots, a piece of advice:
# Comb it out before you wash it.
# it makes all the difference.
# And keep it braided when not in use. (magical or otherwise)

Is that like keeping your weapons peace-bonded?
# 
# Lisa


/*___________________________________________________________________________*
 *  1.     How *DARE* you attribute these opinions to anyone else!           *
 *  2.     Would *you* claim opinions like these if they *weren't your own?  *
 *					                                     *
 *		         Mark Silverdragon                                   *
 *					                                     *
 *          	       	markbr@radian                                        *
 *___________________________________________________________________________*/
Etymology, n.:
	Some early etymological scholars come up with derivations that
were hard for the public to believe.  The term "etymology" was formed
from the Latin "etus" ("eaten"), the root "mal" ("bad"), and "logy"
("study of").  It meant "the study of things that are hard to swallow."
		-- Mike Kellen
From: jwalsh@aspentec.com (Jamie Walsh)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Jesus was a pagan and lonely wiccians
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:50:52 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Aspen Technology, Inc. Cambridge, MA.

In article <17872@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, lung@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Terence Lung) writes:
> Here is the first of five questions from nc313127@wvnvms.wvnet.edu:
> 	>1) I have heard that Jesus Christ was originally a Celtic Myth (maybe 
> 	>about Merlin) that was perverted-i mean modified- by the Mediteranian
> 	>culture(s) for some reason.  Does anyone have any facts, speculation,
> 	>or ideas?
> I have some ideas for this one.  Whether they are facts or not is debatable.
> I also have some date questions for anyone who can answer them.
> 
> OK.  Here are the ideas:  the Jesus Christ story existed as early
> as the Hebrew prophecies (which it fulfilled) of probably around 1451 B.C. 

Oh, say, starting with that his name would be Emmanuel, and right up through 
the rebuilding of the temple and world peace? Fulfilled did you say?

-- 
--jamie
	  "There's a seeker born every minute."

Internet:	jwalsh@aspentec.com
UUCP:	        uunet!aspentec!jwalsh
Newsgroups: alt.pagan