HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Center for the Amiga Advancement
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 22:05:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.213033.7016@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>In article <1992Jul26.190744.12857@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>>Just curious... is AmigaDOS 2.0 a 32 bit OS?
>
>I am not completely certain what is meant by "32-bit OS", but I know 
>that much of Intuition and the graphics.library are strictly limited 
>to 8 bitplanes.  The equivilents to Intuition and graphics.library 
>under MacOS, Windows, and OS/2 are clean 32-bit designs.

What is even more pitiful is that there is no Amiga that can display
8 bitplanes, much less 24.  It is both funny and sad that Commodore
may finally get around to releasing such machines this year when the
rest of the world is moving on to better things.  I myself would love
to have the problem of upgrading my software to work with new software,
but Commodore needs to act quickly or I'll be jumping ship.

>>Thom
>
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>-----------------------------------------------------

BTW, many people keep telling those of us who don't worship the Amiga
like a deity to "just leave and get a PC or Mac!"  Don't worry, I'd
bet that you will get your wish in the near future if Commodore continues
to sit on their ass.  If and when the exodus starts, believe me when I
say that I'll be there to remind you should you decide to join in.  :-)
                                                          ___         __
  Skip Sauls, TKKC Charter Member                          |  |/  |/ / 
  skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu                                |  |\  |\ \__
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Commodore and the Osborne Syndrome
From: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (LaMonte Koop)
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:35:44 -0600
Reply-To: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <1992Jul28.014224.12961@seas.gwu.edu>, gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>cuadrasola@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>

 [ stuff deleted ]

>Such products as Emplant, OS/2 2.0, and Windows 3.x are easy to announce
>early since they are exciting products.  Commodore has not released
>anything exciting since the A1000, and the rumors of their "new" 8-bit
>graphics are not promising.  Well, the A3000 was arguably an exciting
>release with its true 32-bit architecture, but Commodore crippled it with
>6-bit graphics, lack of RTG, lack of memory protection, lack of...

    I will admit some valid points exist with the above statement, but I do
wish to voice an argument against memory protection.  I agree it would be
nice to have in terms of development, but there are a few things people
do not realize about it.  For starters, it does slow the system a good
deal.  AmigaOS was designed to be a fast, compact, and as close to real-time
OS as possible.  Anyone used to its good response time would be very
disappointed with its slowed reactions in a memory protected environment.
    Seconds of all, applications presently would break, period, under
memory protection.  It simply is not an option under the current AmigaOS
layout.  Memory protection is nice to have...I certainly enjoy it under 
large systems I have developed on.  As of yet, however, I have not seen an
implementation on a smaller system which did not noticably affect system
performance, in some cases annoyingly.  Some may not notice due to expectations
they have, and some systems do contain extremely fast hardware to counter this.
However, systems which contain this are often a great deal more expensive than
is desired.

                   ----------------------------------------
             LaMonte Koop -- SCSU Electrical/Computer Engineering
  Internet: lkoop@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu -OR- f00012@kanga.stcloud.msus.edu
               "You mean you want MORE lights on this thing???"
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: people like you.
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:43:44 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

robert.buonincontro@canrem.com (robert buonincontro) writes:


> People like you are just as bad as Commodores management. Commodore has
>been working on new systems for two years now. Telling people that they
>are working on new systems is just as bad as not telling people. Looks
>at what the rumours have done. Potential users are waiting for new
>machines. Existing users are waiting for new graphics chips ect. instead
>of supporting 3rd party companies.

I once again agree with what Robert has to say.  The reason why I am
still using WB1.3 today is because I am waiting for WB2.1 (or the rumored
WB3.0).  I have been told WB2.1 has been beta-testing for awhile now.  
I don't want to have to buy the 2.04 package now, and purchase 2.1 disks
later.                

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin
e-mail: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu

>--
>Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
>World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Anybody care to crush this Falcon Rumor?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 01:15:34 GMT

In article <l73op8INN2ho@pollux.usc.edu> addison@pollux.usc.edu (Richard Addison) writes:
>In <1992Jul21.062153.23976@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>>pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
>>>: Maybe the vapor is nitrous oxide (laughing gas)?
>
>>    Actually, I think that's "nitric oxide".
>
>OK, Marc, the next time you go to the dentist insist on nitric oxide.
>Accept no substitutes!

   Don't be so cynical.  I know about the differences between nitric oxide and
nitrous oxide.  What I meant was that I am pretty sure that the report I 
heard about the chemical the makes males horney mentioned it as nitric oxide,
and not nitrous oxide.  I thought that was odd, too, but the announcer was
careful in mentioning it as nitric oxide, and not the 'laughing gas' 
anesthetic nitrous oxide.  I may be wrong about what exactly this chemical is,
but I was not confused about which one (nitrix|nitrous oxide) is "laughing
gas".

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------
"If you like Congress, you'll **LOVE** Bill Clinton."
                                --new campaign slogan
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 10:49:41 GMT

In <torrie.712369103@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
>  In my experience, MP allows you to FIND those cases of sloppy
>programming, whereas without it you're blissfully unaware until
>it jumps up and bites you one day when you're working on a 
>critical presentation due for the board meeting in 10 minutes.

It always depends and I rather look at the results as of the potentials.

Look at the hundreds of UNIX programs that will generate segfaults on
bad input data. This symptom exists because such an error doesn't bring
the machine down and is tolerated by people. It however won't help
you with your critical presentation where a segfault is as bad as a
system crash (at least on the Amiga where a reboot last a couple of
seconds).

Or the hundreds of VAX programs that harmlessly dereferenced NULL pointers
because *((long *)0) == 0 on those machines.

And still you can find such errors without hardware memory protection.
Look at such utilities like Mungwall or Enforcer which will track down
more errors than generic MP will exploit.

Regards
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Mark Rickan)
Subject: Re: Amiga Whiners
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:12:42 GMT

In article <Mike_Whalen.0knk@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US> Mike_Whalen@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Mike Whalen) writes:

>  No.. the way I see it as that Commodore wants to show Mr. Robinson that
>the Amiga is fine and he was wrong. Well, judging from the way I feel as
>well as many people here.. it's not alright. I wanted to simply inform Mr.
>Robinson of the net activity and what the real users are saying.. maybe
>diffusing what rose petals Commodore is sending to Mr. Robinson.

If you wish to inform Mr. Robinson about what the real users are saying,
direct him to a more pragmatic Amiga SIG. Regardless of how candid the
article may been, the condescending "I too was once a mushroom" attitude
he adopted wasn't particularly gratifying for existing or prospective
users. What really matters is how CBM delivers from here on in. If the
recent response is sincere and substantiated through new developments and
a more aggressive system of promotion/support, then invest accordingly.

I have a hard time believing that this guy considers himself a leading
authority, when he obviously knows less than your garden variety certified
developer.

Mark

-- 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
 = Mark Rickan                         ...!uunet!utai!utgpu!maccs!rickan = 
 = DCSS, McMaster University               rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca = 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: commodore
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:36:57 EST
Reply-To: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

->    The only support Commodore has now is the blind allegiance of the
-> "My Amiga, right or wrong" cheerleaders.  Wake up, people!  Haven't
-> we been their dupes for long enough?

 It could also mean that Commodore is fighting back because they have
some new products on the way. It's funny you just can't please some
people. I don't know who is worse Commodore or some of the Commodore
Users.

 People bitch the Commodore computers are too expensive.
 Commodore tries to lower prices by offering surface mounted chips
 People bitch that you can't upgrade the boards.

 People  bitch that Commodore hasn't released a new Operating System
 Commodore releases an amazing Operating system
 People bitch that Commodore is releasing to many version first 2.0
 then 3.0 ect.

 People bitch that Commodore needs 256 colour display modes.
 Commodore may anounce 256 colour display modes
 People WILL bitch that Commodore should release 16.7 million colour

 I'm not saying Commodore is not to blame. They have a lot of explaining
to do. They also have to prove to their users that they are dedicated.
But people like you shoot them in the foot before they get a chance.

    Robert.Buonincontro@Canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: sheldon@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon)
Subject: Re: LEAVE MARC BARRET ALONE!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:02:30 GMT

In <1992Jul17.143344.29631@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>In article <tony.711325586@ais.org> tony@ais.org (Tony Poole) writes:
>>It also kinda amuses me that a while back, one Bowie Poag was so hated that
>>his sysadmin yanked his net access.  "But he advocated Piracy!" they said. 
>>Heh....Mark is doing a better job at killing the Amiga than piracy is.

 If I recall correctly, that Bowie Poag was posting foul language.
I doubt that "advocating piracy" is grounds for removing net privileges.

There are many in the Usenet community who would interpret copyright law
differently.

>   You act as if I personally am responsible for all of the Amiga's problems
>today, and that I am single-handedly killing the machine off.  This is 
>absolutely ludicrous.  I admit that Usenet gives me a wide audience of people
>who can read my messages, but compared to the people who are really in control
>of things, I have no bearing whatsoever in the future of the machine.


 Well, anyway.  I don't believe that I have ever met Marc.  But there is 
at least one other person here at Iowa State who is behind him all the way!
I don't necessarily agree with his tactics.  But I would prefer to see some
negative commentary in the .advocacy groups to counter the "The Amiga is
great, the Amiga is good, The Amiga is GOD." drivel...

 My opinion?  The Amiga is dying a slow death.  That editorial from that 
Robinson guy was entirely accurate 100%.

 Well, enough complaining.  It doesn't matter now as I've sold the Amiga,
amazingly was able to get as much out of it as I sold my C-128 for years
ago...  But I'm likely as not going to continue reading this group out of
some sick loyalty to a computer which was trying to climb up a hill with
the brakes fully engaged from the start.
From: hawk@pnet01.cts.com (John Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC's are just kludge after kludge
Date: 19 Jul 92 12:16:04 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA


 
>In article <1992Jul17.073010.17515@uwm.edu>
>gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>>
>>You're incredibly diluted.  No, the "Tramiels" were not responsible
>>for the Amiga chips.  They were done by a completely third company.
>>Atari tried to buy it out, but C= bought it out from under them.
>>Thus, the Amiga became the C= Amiga, and Tramiel rushed to put a
>>system together to compete.  He beat C= to the punch, and put out the
>>ST.
 
So Jeff Young writes:
>Jay Mina' wuz Atari enginea' when he dun did Lo'raine chip design (1982-83)
>but dun did not finish cuz' Jack 'De Terminato'' Tramiel at Commodo'e
>DECLARED WAR on Atari (also TI, Mattel, Colecco, Microsoft MSX) and
>blew dem into BLACK HOLE.  Right On!  .  Right On!  
 
>Jay left wiped out Atari and join new company t'finish Lo'raine (Amiga)
>chips. Tramiels started Commodo'e but dey left (a'cuz uh Irvin'
>Gould??) and made stealout uh half wasted Atari.  Ya' know? Some C= engineers
>went wid Trameils too and started design uh ST clunker.  
 
>Amiga company needed bre'd t'finish Amiga clunker so's sucka's ax'ed
>fo' bre'd fum Trameils (NOT Irvin') but bre'd ran out.
>When Amiga company mos' at end uh rope sucka's went FIRST TO ATARI
>to sell company but Buckwheat Tramiel BLEW AWAY Amiga sucka's wid
>LOW OFFER. Some sucka's at Commodo'e WOKE UP IRVING t'steal out
>Amiga company and finish Amiga project. ST and A1000 started
>sellin' mos' same time but ST wuz winner.  Ah be baaad... Buckwheat Tramiel
>wuz happy so's he retired and left Atari t'HALF SENSE sons.
>Tramiel sons plum likes Wang Computa' son and mos' roll
>Atari OVER CLIFF.  Right On!  
 
>C= used time while Tramiel sons drivin' Atari all ova' de
>place and Commodo'e engineers made A500 BEST clunker fo'
>1980s.  Right On!  .  Right On!  
 
>Now Commodo'e be cruisin' along but HEADING FOR ATARI ICEBURG
>a'cuz Captain Irvin' be ASLEEP AGAIN.  Right On!  Right On!  'De Terminato''
>IS BACK and finished wid retirement so's he be takin' charge 
>ova' Tramiel sons t'start NEW WAR wid Atari Falcon clunkers.
 
>So Commodo'e looks OK now befo'e hittin' iceburg but it will
>LOOK LIKE TITANIC (wid Irvin' in lifeboat) real soon.  'S coo', bro.
 
>Jeff Young


UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!hawk
ARPA: crash!pnet01!hawk@nosc.mil                 
INET: hawk@pnet01.cts.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: Anybody care to crush this Falcon Rumor?
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:48:56 GMT

pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
: Maybe the vapor is nitrous oxide (laughing gas)?

Anyone hear the news that small amounts of nitrous oxide released into
the bloodstream is the cause of a man's erection?

Guess those atari owners must really need a cold shower these days,
eh?  :)

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: I am not giving up on the Amiga
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:49:46 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
>>
>>Mike, if you think that an Amiga with an accelerator and a 24-bit TIGA
>>board can even begin to approach the performance of an Indigo Elan, you
>>are badly disillusioned.  On the other hand, that Elan graphics board alone
>>costs something like $16K.
>
>I doubt he's talking about a TIGA board - he mentioned GVP 040, so he probably
>means GVP's EGS board, which is directly coupled to their accelerators.  The
>32-bit interface to it can shovel video data straight from the cpu at 50 MB/s.
>It comes with 8 megs of video ram, can do full 24-bit at 1600x1280, and can
>draw lines 24-bits deep at 3 million pixels/sec.  Used with a 27 MIPS cpu
>(040/33), you have a serious system.
>

Don't get me wrong, it's a great setup, but it's not even in the same
ballpark as an Indigo Elan.  3 million pixels/sec?  The Elan does a million
anti-aliased 3D *vectors* per second.  Plus, the Elan does things in hardware
that the EGS can only dream about, such as shading and depth cueing.

>
>David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: Proposal: comp.sys.amiga.barrett
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:47:13 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.000003@aminet.uucp> barrett%aminet@nuconvex.com writes:
>
>In article <33158@cbmvax.commodore.com>, andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
>>In article <50619@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@gleep.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
					       ^^^^^

>>>	There are at least *four* people named "barrett" who post in the
>>>Amiga groups, and who-knows-how-many "barretts" just reading.  Believe it or
>>>not, we are all individuals.  So I vote NO WAY on this newsgroup name. :-)
>>>
>>
>>Dan makes an important point;  remember to _fine tune_ those kill files;
>>otherwise you could be accidently failing to read interesting and
>>useful posts :-)
>
>Thanks Andy --
>
>YES - don't let one bad barrett spoil it for the rest of us! While my
>posts may not always be interesting, I'd like to think they are getting
>seen. Besides, I was here first (I just consume less bandwidth).
>
>[Note: This article excluded ;-)]

>-kgb

	But as the great Socrates once said, and died by, it is important
to remove the worst from any given group and also to concede by removing
the best from that group.

:)


-- 
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 516-473-5156 AMIGA  DDD-MEN   
     //  bounce-resistant:    dtiberio%libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu@sunysb.edu
   \X/	    Perot for President 1-516-399-2259 Long Island, New York

 	PPPP  EEEEE RRRR   OOO  TTTTT    IIIII N   N      999  2222
	P   P E     R   R O   O   T        I   NN  N     9   9     2
	PPPP  EEEE  RRRR  O   O   T        I   N N N      9999  222
 	P     E     R R   O   O   T        I   N  NN         9 2
 	P     EEEEE R  R   OOO    T      IIIII N   N     9999  22222
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: troy@bluemoon.rn.com (Troy Fridley)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 03:46:13 EDT

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>    Of the five new Amigas that have been developed since 1987, how many of
> them are simply rehashes of the A1000?  Answer: three; A500, A2000, and A600.
> The other two (A3000 and CDTV) don't offer all that much more in the line of
> improvements; CDTV is basically just an A1000 with a CD-ROM drive, and the
> A3000 is basically an A1000 with built-in '030, FPU, SCSI port, and display
> enhancer.  (I'm not counting the A2500 systems, because those are hardware
> bundles and not new systems)
> 
>                                 --new campaign slogan
> 
> 

a
 But your forgetting a couple of MAJOR advancments in the A3000 Hardware, 
You forget to mention that it has a 32 Bit Bus, Built iin Display 
Enhancer, and Lots of new chips with Cool new names!

                        Troy
 
DON'T FORGET TO EDIT THAT POST!

  Does one actually need a brain to think?  Obviously Not!
 
 UUCP: Troy@Bluemoon.uucp

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: haley@unixg.ubc.ca (Ross MacGregor)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:44:52 GMT

In <1992Jul28.222912.8025@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:

>True. However, memory protection won't save you since the OS, like every
>piece of software, will have bugs. In my experience MP doesn't lead to
>better or safer software but to sloppy programming.

Yes, I think Amiga programmers may be the most careful around, out of
necessity mind you but still the same.  I've heard many stories of
UNIX code dying on the Amiga.
 
-- 
Ross MacGregor           |  These views are my own and can be considered 
haley@unixg.ubc.ca       |  absolute truth.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Dave Hanie for C= Chairman of Board of Diretors! was Re: LET'S RESC
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:47:08 GMT

In article <Mike_Whalen.0kmq@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US> Mike_Whalen@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Mike Whalen) writes:
>  Not to mention the fact that Commodore FIRED the original developers.
>
>  Why?
>
>  Does anyone know why? 

   They weren't fired; they merely left.  Commodore wanted to close the 
Los Gatos facility where the Amiga was developed, and consolidate operations
at West Chester.  Since the majority of the Amiga dudes did not want to leave
California and move to a boring edge of the woods right ouf of a Bob Newhart
episode, they just left the company.  A few signed on later as temporary 
consultants, but the majority never had anything to do with Commdoore ever
again.

   I think this was the single biggest blunder on Commodore's part.  This is
what caused the A2000 to be a piece of crud system compared to what it should
have been; the A2000 was released almost two years after the A1000, and 
contained no improvements at all other than some slots.  

>---------
>Phillip Robinson author of Washington Post/San Jose Mercury
>article is RIGHT about Commodore atrocities regarding the Amiga!
>Let's make HIM our voice! Since Commodore won't listen to us!
>
>                              Phil Robinson
>                              P.O. Box 1377
>                           Sausalito, CA  94966
>---------

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy