HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: skip@cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Overabundance of Drek
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:59:37 GMT
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science

In article <1iipetINNfvs@pith.uoregon.edu> ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles) writes:
>   Folks, LAY OFF ON THE FLAME WARS.

Aw, what's a matter?  You don't like it?  Gee, I guess we'll all just have
to start being nice to each other so poor little Greggy doesn't get upset.

>   I login to find 217 new messages in comp.sys.amiga.advocacy. Most seem
>to be slamming Marc Barrett or someone else. This is not the place to
>defend your ego or prove you are a hardware or software god or goddess.

Bullshit, this is exactly the place for such things.  If you don't like
what you are reading, it is obvious you should stop doing so.  No one is
making you read this newsgroup and in turn you have no right to tell others
what they can and cannot post.

>If you have nothing of real use to say, then DON'T SAY ANYTHING.

If you can't take the heat, then STOP READING THIS NEWSGROUP.

>   There's enough crap to wade through in here as it is, and over the last
>few months, it's become intolerable. Knock it off kiddies. It's not wanted.

Fuck you asshole.  Your wimpy little plea is worse than anything that MB
or anyone else could ever hope to post.  
 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)             "Infinite Laser Dog" Development Team
>All opinions expressed are my own.       ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu, BIX: ggiles
>Willy Beamish (MS-DOS CD-ROM, Sega-CD), Space Quest V (MS-DOS), A10 1.5 (Amiga)

Dynamix is a once great company who sold out.

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Great feature in 1200 (3.0?)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 05:58:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.195906.62604@cc.usu.edu> slhmz@cc.usu.edu writes:
>In article <C0o47s.6D2@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>> ---
>> | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> "No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
>> is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
>
>
> Does this mean that you think that nearly every computer today is a kludge?

   No, I'm just making a point.  The AGA Lisa chip happens to remain compatible
with the ECS Denise by grafting the logic for the Denise on top of the new
logic for all of the new graphics modes and such.  This was done in a similar
fashion to the way the more-advanced Intel chips graft 8086-compatibility logic
on top of more advanced logic.  But, of course, I mean nothing about the
AGA chipset when I say that grafting computers on top of other computers is a
kludge.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:32:00 GMT

>  It's obvious that there is a tremendous level of applications redundancy
>for the Windows environment, most people do not require 3 word processors
>to produce printed output though.

It's called CHOICE. There was a man here who said that Lotus Ami Pro is
the best for equations.  I say that Word is the best for general use.
WordPerfect is the best for those that are already conversent with it.
Describe is a fantastic DTP type program, and has a beautiful feature
called unlimited undo.

CHOICE.

>
>  It offers a lot, if you're willing to accept a bridgeboard and Amax II
>as solutions that allow you to run applications that may not be available
>for AmigaDOS native without having to buy into an entirely new computer
>platform as well.
>
So what you are saying is: The amiga is flexible if you turn it into a
PC/Amiga.  Ok, I'll accept that.  Too bad you have to pay so much for
the Amiga half...and indeed for the PC half.  A BB is almost as much as
a motherboard+harddrive!

>  But why would they if Windows is supposed to be the Ultimate(tm) in
>operating systems?

Because, in the Amiga world, you all agree that AmigaDOS is the
Ultimate(tm) operating system because you have no choice.  Some prefer
Unix and say "but there is Amiga Unix."  In the PC world, we recognize
that differnt OSes have different strengths and weaknesses, and
everybody chooses their favourite.

Some like Unix's command line.
Some like OS/2's power.
Some like Dos' system resources requirements.
Some like Windows' applications.
Some like Solaris and NextStep's development tools.
Some like Linux's cost.

We have choice...we are not C= following lemmings.

>
From: barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Marc Barrett's first C program?
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:25:32 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: BLAZEMONGER INCORPORATED


	Over the years, Marc Barrett has made a number (17,948) of negative
statements about the Amiga, as well as some suggestions of how to change
it.  And yet we have seen no programs written by him.  What do Marc's
programs look like?  The following is my best guess.

	Please note the credits, since the original idea was not mine.

------------8<----------------- cut here ----------------8<------------------
/* MB.c:	A fantasy about Marc Barrett's first C program.
 *		Inspired by a posting by Paul Theodoropoulos.  (The printf.)
 *		Code by Dan "No Relation" Barrett.
 *		Spurred into reality by Marc "No Relation Either" Atkin.
 *
 * Created in Wordperfect 4.1:  the ultimate programmer's editor.
 * Anything else simply is not productivity software.
 *
 * This code is copyrighted and in the public domain.  You can give
 * out copies as long as you send in the shareware fee.  I hope that
 * Commodore will use this code in the next release of the pathetic,
 * useless, primitive Amiga operating system.
*/


#include <stdio.h>
#include <flamewar.h>
#include <whiner.h>
#include <exec/clueless.h>
#include <macintosh/ease_of_use.h>
#include <macintosh/drag_n_drop.h>
#include <macintosh/structured_graphics.h>
#include <macintosh/no_preemptive_multitasking_but_who_cares.h>
#include <you_are_wrong.h>
#include <thats_irrelevant.h>
#include <i_am_right.h>
#include <everyone_loves_me.h>
#include <DataTax.h>

#ifdef I_FEEL_LIKE_IT
# include <problems/surface.h>
#else
# include <problems/internal.h>
#endif

#include <five_years_of_complaining.h>
#include <dead/cdtv.h>
#include <dead/amigavision.h>
#include <dead/amiga.h>
#include <dead/marketing.h>
#include <dead/gould.h>
#include <dead/cbm.h>
#include <dead/elvis.h>
#include "MB.h"
#include "MB.h"
#include "MB.h"
#include "MB.h"
#include "MB.h"		/* Make SURE the compiler sees it. */

#define	TRUE	(1?1:1-1)	/* Super-clever hacker trick. */
#define	FALSE	NULL		/* Fewer names -- saves space. */

#if 1
# define some		all
# define 3		500
# define opinion	simple and obvious fact
#endif


main()
{
	printf("Hello world.  Amiga sucks!\n");
}

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: A4000 Pricing
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:42:54 GMT

In <1ikd7sINNil5@mercury.kingston.ac.uk> cs_e445@ceres (Vlod Kalicun) writes:
>Why does the Power Up only apply to the states.
>The Europe market is quite a big chunk for C= and yet we don't get
>any of these offers.

Maybe the US people need that to sell Amigas.

>Is it C= UK just being greedy or just lazy??

Definitely greedy as all people in capitalism.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:25:08 GMT

In article <C0rn9H.LJ@rice.edu> abuhr@owlnet.rice.edu (Aaron M. Buhr) writes:
>In article <1993Jan12.040020.21930@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>>In article <C0p5B4.HF@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod) writes:


WARNING: THIS POST CONTAINS MATERIAL THAT THE WEAK OF HEART, STOMACH,
AND MIND SHOULD AVOID.  IF YOU'VE BEEN UPSET BEFORE BY MY POSTS, STOP
NOW AND YOU'LL LIVE A LOT LONGER.


>>>>>Vesa spec bandwith is much higher then EITHER of these.  Byte says
>>>>>150Mps sec...that's 19M/sec.  They also say: "Few of today's
>>>>>applications require more then 100Mbs"...Vesa spec local bus has
>>>>>bandwith to spare.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, that's like saying the SCSI standard allows for 4MB/sec, so therefore
>>>>my particular hard drive and SCSI interface go that fast.  You're basing an
>>>>argument on a theoretical spec.
>>>
>>>No I'm basing the arguement that the ISA bus is a limitation on today's
>>>PCs.
>>
>>Zorro III has a theorectical maximum of 150 megabytes per second, therefore
>>it is vastly superior to the VESA bus.  If VESA has bandwidth to spare, 
>>Zorro III has bandwidth to solve the world's economic crisis...
>
>     Just for the sake of accuracy, I'm fairly certain the current VESA
>local bus specification indicates a max clock rate of 40MHz, with 32 bits,
>giving a 160MB/s max bandwidth.  The 64-bit VESA LB (and PCI) specs are 
>supposed to be finished this year.  Of course, the actual bandwidth is 
>limited to the CPU speed (and width), since the VESA LB is CPU driven.

What the fuck does the VESA bus have to do with the Amiga?  Why the fuck
do you read this newsgroup and post about what the VESA bus is or will
be in the future?  Do you really think that anyone here cares?  Oh, I
forgot, Jerry, Paul, Greg, and the other CloneHeads who hang around 
might learn something from your drivel.

Take the VESA bus and shove it up your ass.

>Aaron Buhr
>abuhr@owlnet.rice.edu

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate who is considering a kill file for this guy...
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:10:59 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Skip Sauls (skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu) wrote:
: >:
: >: How long have they had a popular widely available multitasking OS for the
: >: Intel architecture?
: >
: >Well, UNIX was available in 1984, and OS/2 in 1987...
:
: Popular, Jerry, popular...
:

Skip, we all know how to conveniently limit the scope of a discussion.  Let's
get on with it.

:
: >I've read two of their books, and there was no mention of the Amiga...
:
: Of course it didn't make it in the books, didn't you know that IBM has
: an Amiga filter for all of its publications?
:

Is this supposed to be taken seriously?

:
: >If you think a 1200 is as fast or powerful as a 486sx, you are sadly
: >mistaken.
:
: Sure, the 486sx has a lot of raw CPU power, but not much more.  It doesn't
: have a blitter, it doesn't have a copper, it doesn't have sprites, and it
: doesn't have a sound coprocessor to help it out.
:

Sure it does, if you add S3 video and Ultrasound audio!  Get with the times,
Skip.

:
: Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 6 Jan 1993 21:43:10 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan6.141519.19372@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Of course it was, unless you were running Windows 3.0 (not 3.1), specifically
>set to Real Mode.  Were you?

Eek.  Umm.  I don't know.  I do remember "turning off" protected mode.
Does 3.1 lack the capability?  That would suggest I was running under
3.0, which may explain even further why it didn't work...

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:43:51 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.020018.19174@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> zarthac@bradley.edu 
(Matthew Simmons) writes:

>: >Given the waning popularity of Geoworks Professional in the PC market,
>: >why not simply have Berkeley develop an Amiga-specific version of
>: >Geoworks?

>:    That's a very good idea. I don't really care who Commodore has develop the
>: package, as long as the package is done well...

>Answer it.  Claris is a subdivision of Apple)  Why do we have to make
>separate integrated packages?  With AREXX, all programs that support it are
>integrated.

You can't get integration in a vacuum. Regardless of how effective AREXX can
be used for IPC, the majority of end-users are not interested in programming
macros so they can do simple operations like cutting and pasting objects
between applications. By bundling an integrated productivity package with
a consistent interface and level of functionality, many people could use
the system right out of the box.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Date: 12 Jan 1993 02:43:13 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan11.105552.13510@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au> davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
>Thanks for the support (I'm the typical Amigoid referred to above  :-).

EEK!  Marc's quote was supposed to be in there somewhere.  Damn.
Basically, he said something to the effect of you having the vision of
a bat for not wanting a hardwired works package that would cripple
productivity under a multitasking OS.

>Yes, I tried to say this in my earlier post.  It shouldn't be necessary for
>the user to learn ARexx (although it's not hard, especially since, once you've
>learnt the macro language of one app, you've learnt them all).  What I'd like

_THIS_ is the big thing to remember.  Rather than learning a dozen
macro languages, you learn the SYSTEM macro language and apply it to
all applications under the system that support it.

>to see is, for example, if you've imported a picture into a document, the
>word processor should allow the user to select the picture, then select "edit"
>in a menu.  This would copy the image into the clipboard, load a paint program,
>instruct it to load the image in the clipboard, allow the user to edit it,
>then transfer back to the clipboard on exit.  All the user should need to know
>is the name of their preferred paint program, which would be recorded in
>preferences setting for the wp.  All we need are standardised Arexx commands
>for load, save, etc.  That, and better clipboard support.

Apps need to support better clipboard support, DEFINITELY.

>This is the crux of the matter.  It's why I told Marc to try thinking like an
>Amigan.  Building up from smaller, single-purpose modules is a different way
>of thinking, or paradigm, from throwing every possible feature into one huge
>application.  People can either see the advantage of a more modular approach,
>or they can't.

Generally, those who see the advantage of the modular, tool-based
approach are relatively good at using the average Unix system's more
powerful features because of its own tool basis.  The modular approach
has been around for a long time for commandline systems, and it's
about time Applications saw that.

Greg



--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ccb8m@onyx.cs.Virginia.EDU (Charles C. Bundy)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:17:22 GMT

In article <C0np2J.69C@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>	THEY also invented IBM PC. THEY were singletasking before Amiga
>>	was born, and most of THEM still are :)
>>	BTW, REXX is from mainframe world, right? Its pretty far from
>>	microcomputers, which are the subject here.
>>
>
>Read my lips:  All IBM operating systems (or at least new ones) have
>REXX.  It is part of their SAA/CUA standards.  It is the equivalent of
>a "law" in a country...it has absolutely nothing to do with the Amiga.
>
>IBM was singletasking in 1981, when Apple was single tasking, before
>Commodore was single tasking etc.  The reason they didn't start out

Apple was "production" single tasking before anybody.  Tandy & Commodore
ran close second and third (or is that third and second?)  IBM jumped on
the bandwagon in '81 and completely screwed themselves over because of
idiotic marketing strategy (Advertising in Forbes? Hmmm..)

Of course, these are just the American mainstream computers, let us not
forget Atari, TI, Osborne, and practically everbody else who came before 
IBM in the personal computer market....

>with a multitasking operating system is because with 64k of ram, you
>can't load two useful programs, plus a multitasking operating system.

Bullshit.  In 1982 I was routinely running text editors, compilers and
spreadsheet software on an OS9 64k system, it multitasked fine thank
you.  This was without overlays or VM, and if you took VM into account
many "mini" computers had an addressing limit of 64K.

IBM had their head up their arse in 1981, is why certain decisions went
the way they did.  Much the same as Commodore sometimes acts.  (I really
admire the design team/design specs on the original IBM-PC btw.)

>
>As soon as multitasking was feasible (with the advent of the 286) IBM

You really haven't had much exposure to the wonderful world of computer
design/history, have you?  How many systems have you studied?  How far
back did you go?

>started work on OS/2, the multitasking OS for it.  The amiga was not an
>influence.
>

Maybe, Maybe not.  I always err on the side of mercy and say that ANYTHING
which survives for seven years in the computer industry has an influence.
The cats that write software for IBM PC's may just like what they see on
an amiga, yes?  We don't know, but it is highly likely considering the
multimedia/multasking/GUI orientation now dominating IBM PC's.  (GUI,
probably came from the Xerox -> Mac stuff, but multimedia?)


Charles C. Bundy IV
ccb8m@virginia.edu

Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32936 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19589
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Amigaguide Management System
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 93 16:23:52 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <paul.046e@dragons.DIALix.oz.au>

>> As it is, i've got freakin (who put the freak in Amigaguide?)

Uh, nature did.
TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:12:25 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

E.A. Story (eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu) wrote:
:
: Again, you ignore his main point.. but then again, you ALWAYS ignore
: the main point.  The fact is, VM entails an interactive perforance
: hit... whether that's detrimental to you depends on what you're doing
: with your system, and your tolerance.
:

Nonsense.  If you take two systems with *equal RAM*, running the same
set of applications, and one system has VM, the only "performance" hit
in that system is the MMU overhead, which is negligible.

:
: Here you go again.  Maybe YOU program without checking return values
: from functions, but most people don't.. and shouldn't.  Perhaps its not
: a course in OS design you should be taking, but a course in applications
: programming.  VM is NOT so you can be lazy and ignore failed memory
: allocations.
:

Thanks for explaining the obvious.  You completely misunderstood me, which
is... OK.  Oh, no -- am I beginning to sound like Stuart Smalley?

: >
: >VM does not impede anything.  In fact, it can only show improved performance
: >over a non-VM system with the same amount of RAM.
:
: You can't support that statement.
:

Did you notice that I said "same amount of RAM"?  I'm just being cautious;
for some reason, Greg and Michael insist on comparing non-VM systems to
VM systems with half the RAM.

:
: Ezra Story
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+