HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: duquet@astro.phy.ulaval.ca (Jean-Remi Duquet)
Subject: Re: Americans on English schools in Quebec (Was: Quebec)
Organization: Universite Laval, Ste-Foy, Qc, Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:46:02 GMT

In article <2AFFC58C.3AF4@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
>[...] of their cultural dillemas? It's far easier to repress English than to
>encourage French, it's cheaper for the provincial government, and it
>has the (unspoken but very real) aspect of revenge. A lot of francophone
>Quebecois who support these repressive measures, take some obscene comfort
>believing that the English in Quebec are finally getting a dose of what
>they've been doing to Quebecois francophones for generations.  Of course
>this doesn't make it right, but it's one hell of a rationalization.
>
Well well... I guess mr. Leibovitch here made quite a deep study of the
profound beliefs of Quebecers... Can we know where you've found this
nice theory, or is it just a personal extrapolation ? :)
As for the obscene comfort and the "very real" aspect of revenge, I am
still trying to find some examples in my neighborhood.

>While languages from Bengali to Yiddish to Mandarin to Czech flourish in
>Canada merely because of the will of those who speak it, it is ironic that
>French in Quebec can seemingly survive only by repressing other languages.
>

Oh! Maybe THAT's what an English-Canadian means when (s)he says french
language flourish in Canada... Well that explains why franco-TROCians 
have some problems getting extra (meaning more than 0 ???) schools. :)

>-- 
> Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
>         evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
>         "IBM's three letters are probably EBCDIC for CYA" - Nik H.


Jean-Remi Duquet
From: ddjohnson@galaxy.gov.bc.ca
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Hurtig's New Party
Date: 21 Nov 92 19:53:59 -0800
Distribution: can
Organization: BC Systems Corporation

In article <1992Nov21.010426.3934@mdivax1.uucp>, robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim
Robinson) writes: > > Hmmm, the Reform Party should siphon off PC votes, and
the NoWayFreeTrade > Party should siphon off NDP votes - the Liberals may coast
to a majority if > this kind of vote splitting goes on. Perhaps Hurtig is
really a Liberal > double agent :-). 

Actually, this isn't very funny Jim! 

In the '88 election the Liberals were sort of against Free Trade (BFTA) and the
NDP were. The split vote (> 50% for the Liberals/NDP) resulted in Mr.
Mulroney's election, the implementation of the BFTA, and the massive
destruction of our manufacturing sector, especially in Central Canada. NEVER
AGAIN! (I hope). 

I know Mel is sincere and I have had the same thoughts as you. The NDP has
intensified their communications stating they will abrogate the BFTA and bail
out of NAFTA before its too late.. Broadbent treated this as an assumed in
1988. It cost us (Canada) dearly. Meanwhile the Liberals will "renegotiate" the
BFTA (and the GST). Until Mr. Hurtig's entry, there was ONE alternative. 

The last thing Canada needs is a replay of the '88 election re BFTA. 

DDJ
-------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Johnson			"You never can predict the weather."
Smithers, British Columbia	Q, Star Trek, TNG. 1992.
CANADA
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:22:36 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Defending Jean Chretien
 <1992Nov20.050945.18052@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>

In article <1992Nov20.050945.18052@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>,
golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) says:
>
>In article <TLRHuB5w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
>(Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
>>Givien the leadership we have, I PERSONALLY would LOVE to see Jean Chretien
>>become PM..  Jean, during the Referendum, has proven himself to be his own
>man
>>and wants to here everyone opinions.
>>
>>From personal experience, I believe that he is the more approachable of all  e
>th
>>Canadian leader we have today.
>>
>
>Jean Chretien has demonstrated to the country that he hasn't learned the
>lesson of the referendum...by imposing candidates on ridings without a
>democratic nomination process...and then quenching dissent through
>intimidation...

There has in the past, been an attempt to take over the Liberal Party by groups
 such as the Campaign Life Coalition by packing nomination meetings with
instant Liberals

>
>...is this the same Liberal Party that was complaining about Tory
>backbenchers who meekly follow Mulroney.
>
>When is Jean going to show his face on the streets of York Centre?
>
>Gerald
>
>
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Plan S -- Quebec separation
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 19:40:04 GMT

marky@engin.umich.edu (Mark Anthony Young) writes:

>Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:

>>
>You said earlier:
>>... two conditions:
>>
>>1) A party, running on a platform of secession, is elected.
>>
>>2) A government, in power, announces a referendum on secession.
>>

>So, should Canada have adopted your draconian measures back in 1980
>when Levesque announced his referendum?  If it had, how do you think
>things would have progressed from there?

Thats a good question. I think times are very different from 1980.
People in BC are much more confident about our ability to go it alone.
They are also much more confident that Quebec can't without paying a
high price. Most people in BC [not all] now think that any threat to
secede is a bluff and we are now prepared to call such a bluff.

I don't think we felt the same way in 1980, and we probably feared
Quebec secession. We don't fear it anymore. In fact, we just wish the
whole thing would go away, one way or the other. 

We think Quebec should decide to stay as one of ten equal provinces,
or decide to go. Piss or get off the pot. 

>If you say that "sovereignty-association is not the same as secession",
>then please explain how you would prevent Quebec from using a similar
>ruse to avoid your program in the future.

I agree sovereignty association is a ruse. But most people now know it
as a ruse. The threat of Quebec secession is no longer valid. It
doesn't scare us. The vote on the CA clearly shows how little BC
thinks of any special deals for Quebec. Sovereignty association is
just another name for a special deal for Quebec and still won't fly in
BC and won't fly in most of english speaking Canada.
-- 
......

Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada,can.general
From: msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader)
Subject: Re: Gay rights and the Charter
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 10:05:20 GMT

Mathew B Englander (mathew@unixg.ubc.ca) writes a nice article on the
topic of the Subject line.  He quotes this passage:

> 	15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the
> 	law and has the right to the equal protection and equal
> 	benefit of the law without discrimination ...

which is fine.  However, he begins by saying *this*:

> The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms applies only to governments,
> not to private individuals or corporations. For example, the Charter
> provides for freedom of expression, but if your employer is somehow
> limiting your freedom to talk, you have *no* recourse to the Charter.

which I do not think is right.  Certainly such an interpretation
seems to apply to subsection 15(1).  But the wording of the section
granting freedom of expression is different.  I don't have a copy at
hand, but it is simple enough to remember.  It begins:

|	Everyone has the right to freedom of expression ...

and there's nothing about laws or governments in it.  I note in
passing that this is an improvement on the U.S. version, which
*does* confine itself to stating what laws shall not be passed.

(This doesn't necessarily mean that an employee is free to express
themselves in ways harmful to the employer and escape the consequences.
I believe it *does* mean that SoftQuad couldn't tell me not to engage
in a political campaign, say.)
-- 
Mark Brader		"'Settlor', (i) in relation to a testamentary trust,
Toronto			 means the individual referred to in paragraph (i)."
utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com		-- Income Tax Act of Canada, 108(1)(h)

This article is in the public domain.
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Quebecker (was Re: Definition of/d'un "Quebecois")
Date: 19 Nov 92 14:36:11 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article  news@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca writes:
>Ne trouves-tu pas que c'est un peu presomptueux de critiquer un
>aspect d'une langue qui n'est meme pas la tienne, et que tu
>maitrises moins que parfaitement?  C'est un peu
>comme si je disais que je n'aimais pas l'emploi de la cedille dans
>la langue francaise (et dans Francois  :-)  :-) ).

I don't mind. I don't like the sound of the word "quebecker". It's my
opinion. It sounds like "quebequeux" to me.

Ce n'est pas une question d'etre presomptueux, ce n'est qu'une
impression.

PS: Thanks for the compliment on my english.  :-)
    I'm sure yours is perfect.

Ciao!


-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
        Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754     Facsimile: (613) 592-4784
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: EEE Senate (was: Reform Party)
	<1992Nov23.041508.8561@csi.uottawa.ca> <schuck.722548753@sfu.ca>
	<1992Nov23.213010.19960@csi.uottawa.ca> <schuck.722563887@sfu.ca>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:50:10 GMT
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
X-Posted-From: byron.sp.cs.cmu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <schuck.722563887@sfu.ca> schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck) writes:

   cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:

   >In article <schuck.722548753@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
   >>cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >>>The Reform Party, in seeking ways of "balancing" the Central Canada
   >>>majority, is trying to sell reforms which are NOT democratic when
   >>>considered at the Federal level, but which seem "pretty good" in that
   >>>they would (at least in theory) give power to people that have been
   >>>traditionally under-represented.
   >>
   >>>Unfortunately, the proposals are neither democratic nor "federal," EEE
   >>>being a good case in point.
   >>
   >>A Triple E Senate is the very *essence* of federal democracy.
   >>
   >>In the US the Senate is equal [ actually more equal in some instances]
   >>with the House of Representatives.
   >>
   >>In Australia, the Senate is equal with the House of Commons.

   >What do the two examples of countries with Senates that you've
   >mentioned have in common?  Hmmm...  They wouldn't have any British
   >traditions in effect, would they?

   The US is a Republic, with almost no British traditions left.
   It was based more on the French system, than the British.

What features of the French system are you referring to?

   >The Senate is a vestige of the Parliamentary system invented by the
   >Brits.  

   Nonsense. A Senate is the 2nd chamber in a bicameral legislature and
   has nothing to do explicitly with a British Parliamentry democracy.

   The term Senate dates back to Roman times.

And what was the OTHER legislative chamber in Rome called?

			[...]

   Without equality of the provinces in a Triple E Senate Canada is not a
   federal democracy.

   The US and Australia are.

   Name a federal democracy that doesn't have a Triple E Senate.

I did elsewhere:  Germany and Austria.

   And don't say Canada, because we are not a real democracy.

Everyone has a different idea of what democracy is.  Have you seen the
CBC/Patrick Watson documentary series "THE STRUGGLE FOR DEMOCRACY"?  I
found it incredibly interesting.

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
From: news@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca
Subject: Re: Quebec
Organization: McGill University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:36:57 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.141600.16434@cerberus.ulaval.ca> beaucham@astro.phy.ulaval.ca (Dominique Beauchamp) writes:

>Cesse de te plaindre, mes enfants, si j'en avais, ne pourraient pas aller a l'ecole
>francaise dans une autre province.  Tu le sais aussi bien que moi.

Pourquoi pas?  Crois-tu qu'il n'y a aucune ecole francaise en dehors
du Quebec?
>
>Ce que je veux dire c'est qu'il faut etre chinois avec les Chinois et quebecois
>avec les Quebecois.  Quand je vais en Ontario, je parle anglais et j'enverrais mes
>flos a l'ecole anglaise.  Mais au Quebec, la culture est francaise (majorite=$)
>donc les ecoles se doivent d'etre francaises.  Si le gouvernement de l'Ontario (
>ou de quelconque autres provinces) veux subventionner des ecoles ici, ben qu'ils
>y allent fort...
>
En Ontario, tu pourrais envoyer tes enfants a l'ecole anglaise.  Et
si tu habitais une region avec assez de francophones pour justifier
la creation d'une ecole francaise, tu pourrais y envoyer tes enfants.
N'est-ce pas mieux ainsi, que d'exiger une uniformite linguistique?
>
>Le principe, comme tu le dis si bien, c'est qu'on paie pour notre culture, pas
>pour celle des autres.
>
Qui sont "les autres"?  Moi, par example?

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA

Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: tcifelli@bmerh717.bnr.ca (Tony Cifelli)
Subject: Re: Anyone want to buy a used country?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 20:59:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.005442.3866@mdivax1.uucp> robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jim Robinson) writes:
>It's only not preposterous if you want Canada to act like and, more
>importantly, be considered a bankrupt 3rd world country. *I* would move my
>meager savings into US dollars if I thought the government was going to
>try this trick; I am sure that I wouldn't be alone.
Lots of Canadians (myself included) have and continue to convert to $US.
It's a good way to hedge against exactly what's happening to the C$ right 
now.  What's taking you so long?

Tony.
--
[Tony Cifelli              ][Phone:    613-765-2798   ][BNR is not accountable]
[Bell-Northern Research    ][FAX:      613-763-2714   ][for the opinions      ]
[P.O. Box 3511, Station C  ][Internet: tcifelli@bnr.ca][expressed herein.     ]
[Ottawa, On. K1Y 4H7 CANADA]["Still looking for a dramatic quote to put here!"]
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Definition of/d'un "Quebecois"
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:35:10 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Nov17.093351.13288@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:
>Many 'anglophones' consider themselves to be "quebecers" (which, i suppose
>could be linguistically translated to "quebecois" ?) - but you won't find
>many of them taking to the streets screaming "Le Quebec au quebecois!" on
>Jean Baptiste Day. :-)

That doesn't mean they are less quebecois.
A franco-ontarian is not less ontarian than a anglo-ontarian because
he doesn't burn Quebec flag as a hobby, or go to see the Queen when
she visits the colony.  :-)

The "Le Quebec aux quebecois" slogan is rather stupid. Technically, it
is accurate and simply reflects a revendication of Quebec's autonomny
(i.e., let the citizen of Quebec decide of their own destiny,
inlcuding everyone who is a citizen of Quebec). However, there is a
portion of the people shouting the slogan who have a more "selective"
(i.e. descriminating) view of what it actualy means. France's infamous
LePen uses a slogan similar to this. Sure, I've seen some idiots
shouting the slogan and complaining about "foreigners", etc. It still
doesn't reflect the overall atmosphere at the St-Jean Baptiste.

PS: I never liked the sound of "quebecker", not because it is english,
but because the terminaison seems rather strange. Furthermore, most of
the times I've heard it was by people bitching abaout quebec. I can't
think of any other cases of terminating a nationality with "er". Much
like saying "canadeux" or "ontareux".
-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
        Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754     Facsimile: (613) 592-4784
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)
Subject: Re: The Council of Canadians: 20-22 Nov, Ottawa
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 06:23:02 GMT

In article <721598499snx@dale.CAM.ORG> dale@dale.CAM.ORG (Dale Wharton) writes:
>
>                                         ./\.     Annual meeting
>                                      _|\|  |/|_  Council of Canadians
>  A G E N D A   F O R   C H A N G E   \        /  20-22 November 1992
>                                       >______<   National Arts Centre
>                                           \      Ottawa
>.
>  YOU ARE INVITED to four public sessions this year.  One will take
>  place after work Friday, November 20, two on Saturday morning, and
>  one on Saturday night.  Look for details of these events--to come.
>.
>  The Council of Canadians is a national, nonpartisan, public interest
>  organization of 22,000 members.  It is devoted to the enhancement
>  and preservation of Canadian sovereignty and political independence.
>  The COC monitors Canada's domestic and foreign policies, lobbies
>  decisionmakers to protect Canadian interests, promotes alternatives
>  for an independent Canada in a world community of nations.

translation:

panders to fear, economic ignorance, isolationism, and xenophobic
nationalism.

As Peter Cook chastises them:

"For those nationalists and leftists who, for so many years, inveighed
against foreign investment, there is a real monster to attack. It is
debt ridden governments that put foreign providers of capital in charge
of Canada. And there is a cause to promote. It is free trade which offers
some chance of reducing our current account deficit."

"How strange, then, that yesterday's nationalists and anti-foreign
investment crusaders are today's apostles of big government and closed
markets. What they advocate makes Canada dependent and weak."

[Globe&Mail, 92.11.16]
>.
>  The Council of Canadians (Join, eh?) * (613) 233-2773, fax 233-6776
>  1006-251 Laurier Avenue West  *  Ottawa ON  K1P 5J6


-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 John Paul Morrison                     |  
 University of British Columbia, Canada |  
 Electrical Engineering                 |   .sig file without a cause
 jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca              VE7JPM |  
________________________________________|_________________________________
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: viking@bnr.ca (Harold Henriksen)
Subject: Re: REAL CANADIAN HISTORY FOR AMERICANS from Dork Lord
Reply-To: viking@bmerh66.bnr.ca
Organization: BNR Ottawa, Fibre Systems Development
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 13:54:18 GMT

(deleted)

>4. WORLD WAR II: THE TRAGEDY CONTINUES
>     In 1917, the Yugoslavs were still at war with eachother, and with
>one of the Yugo leaders assasinated, everyone in power wanted to test out
>each others armaments and strategies in one of the most stupid wars in
>all history.

Well, I'll call it a typo and assume ... no I won't - this whole article is
just too ignorant to exhibit any tolerance.  Let's point out some errors in
just this portion of the diatribe:

1. Assuming you meant WWII - it started in 1939.  If you meant WWI - it started
   in 1914.
2. Yugoslavia was not created until 1918 - the assassination occurred in Bosnia
3. The assassinated person was the Archduke of the Austro-Hungarian Empire - not
   some Yugo leader.

(rest of errors/lies/polemic deleted but you get the point)
--
Harold Henriksen                    Bell-Northern Research
email: viking@bmerh694.bnr.ca       Ottawa,Ontario,Canada 

Pillaging and plundering were more fun than programming!
(Opinions are not my employer's and sometimes not mine)
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Virginie's TV violence petition
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:46:50 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 1179

From article <1992Nov23.153715.13076@spxtech.qc.ca>, by steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter):
> From article <1992Nov20.222744.1@uwovax.uwo.ca>, by 4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (John LaRocque):
>> In article <1992Nov20.110332.4393@spxtech.qc.ca>, steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:

Typographical error:-

>> [me:-]
>>> Am I a moron because I believe there is too much gratuitous violence
>>> on TV - and I believe studies that have linked it to violence in
>>> society to one degree or another?
>> 
>> [John/Jean:-]
>> Yeah, and they used to say that Jazz and Rock and Roll made black men want
>> to rape white women! And that Hallowe'en is Satanic too. .....
> 
> and "immigrant" kids going to English is a threat to the French language?

Last line should read:-

'and "immigrant" kids going to English schools is a threat to the French
 language?'

of course.

sorry.

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: can.politics