HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sbhattac@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: De-muffining
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:14:43 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

In article <1992Apr8.091918.12167@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:

>This  is  part of the old protein (actually amino-acid) combining nonsense.

I have a question, which is absolutely all I intend to contribute to this
thread. A string of related questions, really.

Why did this nonsense get started at all? If Frances Lappe was responsible
for it, what set of cultural biases did she suffer from? It is obvious that
she had to contend with her own occidental presumptions about diet, but she
was attempting something which I gather was regarded as revolutionary, so
how is it that she fell into this nonsense? As a food chemist I find the
notion of complementing proteins rather silly, except as a medium-term
averaging issue, and find it odd that anyone who actually understands
chemistry and biochemistry would give the idea more than thirty seconds
worth of attention. Indeed, not just today, but at any time in the last
half century.

Did Lappe understand biochemistry? Was her initial espousal of the
protein complementing idea an original foolishness on her part, or was she
passing along some existing foolishness?

Since she managed to overcome the other meat and potatoes cultural biases
with which she presumably grew up, I find it odd that she got stuck with
this one.

The idea that you need a certain balance of amino acids is perfectly
sensible, subject to some tolerances. The notion that you need to maintain
that balance for individual meals is not the reasonable default assumption
for a technically informed person. If she got that notion from some
orthodox source she was particularly unfortunate in her sources.

So, where did that idea come from?

- Shankar
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism and war
Date: 8 Apr 92 07:26:15 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.com (Rich Young (x37176)) writes:

>[...]

>I have no desire to get into another interminable discussion of why the 
>morality of some is thought by the holders of that morality to be superior
>to that of others, but a book review taken from t.p.a may be illuminating
>regarding extremism in this area.  Also, I do understand that this is not
>the Singer quoted in Mr. Miley's post.

And I thought you were going to temper your flame baiting of us
vegetarians.  Citing this so-called book review is not only irrelevant
to this conference, but it is downright insulting to our intelligence.

How come no reference?  Could it be that it was lifted from some
disreputable rag?  Do you really think that an informed review is
going to be made by a hostile animal researcher concerning a book
on ethics written by a philospher and predicated on a philosophical
position?  It is possible, I guess, but whoever wrote this review is not
very informed.  Anyway, I'm not going to debate this review here, but
on t.p.a.  If you really want to search out some book reviews from
more credible publications, then start with the BOOK REVIEW INDEX
found in your university library.  

                                        ted
From: therese@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: what rec.food.veg is all about
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:04:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.shnn9INNpnf
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Originator: therese@garnet.berkeley.edu

Hi, I tried to respond to Kamatchka Charlie (sorry for any misspelling)
but email bounced.  So here's a post instead!  I believe that there are
probably several silent supporters of Michael Traub in this newsgroup.
At least there's one - me!  While I do believe in tolerating meat-eaters
(my soon-to-be-husband is one), it seems that in a vegetarian news group,
of all places, there should be tolerance of vegetarianism, of our beliefs
and our ethics.  The flame wars have gotten so ludicrous I'm about to
join the exodus of otherwise interested readers.  Why don't we ALL try to
be a little more tolerant?  

Therese
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.com (Rich Young (x37176))
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipies
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:28:42 GMT

jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) writes:

[...]

>The reasons I have "run":
>1) M.T. never learned the lesson about the importance of quality over quantity.
>2) He doesn't have a well-developed sense of humor
>3) He is intellectually dishonest in his editing of other folks' articles
>4) He brings out the worst in people, including me right now.
>5) Grandmother taught ME: Never argue with a fool.
>6) Repeat number 1 above.
>JH

	All points well taken.  BTW, I meant nothing personal or pejorative
	by my question.


-Rich (young@serum.kodak.com)
From: camber@irie.ais.org (Brian Bruns)
Subject: Re: the single veggie flame war
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 92 10:07:32 EST
Organization: UMCC

In article <1992Apr1.162918.1@mscf.med.upenn.edu> shankar_k@mscf.med.upenn.edu writes:

[other stuff deleted]
>misconceptions as their meat-eating counterparts.  For example, one poster said
>that meat eaters wouldn't be interested in the recipes of vegetarians.  Why
>not, for God's sake?  People often WANT to reduce the amount of meat they
>consume and what better way to start than by getting some good recipes from the
>net for starters?  ANd many meat eaters post recipes for vegetarian dishes, as
>well.  Education by example not by force.

I have a friend who is totally anti-vegatarian.  He won't even consider
eating a meatless meal.  He actually believes it is God's will that men eat
meat.  This is an extreme case, granted, but most of the non-veg's I know
will not eat meatless meals.

        Brian
From: jeanthea@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Jeantheau)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: De-muffining
Date: 11 Apr 92 20:53:18 GMT
Reply-To: jeanthea@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Jeantheau)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

I have seen a lot of differing opinions from "authoritative sources"
on the need to combine vegetable protiens.  Is it any wonder that there
is confusion when two books--each very pro-vegetarian--give exactly
opposite answers on the need for combining protiens?

It can't *hurt* to combine vegetable protiens, and there is no waste
of time or money if you enjoy eating all the foods you're combining.
And for anyone dreading the thought of beans: I used to, because the
ways I had been served beens all my life were somewhat ugh.  But having
learned alot about how to cook with them, I'm finding many delicious
new recipes.  And--cover your ears, fanatics--I do still love the taste
of meat.  But beans are a great, healthy alternative.

** mark **

P.S.  The post I saw about 1 cup of rice providing a large portion of
daily protien requirements does not agree with several sources I have
seen on the subject...  And, as one poster noted, living on junk food
is hazardous regardless of protien requirements (and I believe the assertion
that such a diet would provide sufficient protien was a bit of hyperbole,
eh?).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
// jeanthea@oasys.dt.navy.mil // Mark Jeantheau // (202) 227-3562
// U.S. Navy // David Taylor Research Center // Code 1401 // Bethesda MD 20084
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed herein blah blah blah... [Standard disclaimer.]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--> "He must be made of stronger stuff... Bring in the Comfy Chair!" -Python
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 491miley@gw.wmich.edu (Tim Miley)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipies
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:22:11 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1992Apr9.073323.14475@rtf.bt.co.uk>, traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
> In article <1992Apr8.022525.5891@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Kamchatka Charlie writes:
>>     And another idea:  try being more tolerant of other people's habits.  Not
>>everyone wants or is able to quit eating meat; a simple allowance for that fact
>>might just make this group more tolerable for the nonvegans and nonfruitarians
>>amongst you.
> 
> I  really  wonder  why  we  keep  getting  this  sort  of  thing. This is a
> newsgroup  for  *vegetarians*.  If  meat eaters want to read it fine, its a
> free  net,  but  please  remember  if  we consider meat eating intolerable,
> that's *our* problem.
> 
> We  don't  need  you to tell us we are intolerant, we know we are, and most
> of us are quite happy being intolerant.
> 
> If  I  wanted  to  be a tolerant liberal, I would post to rec.food.recipes,
> wouldn't I?
> 
> I  wonder,  is  alt.atheism  continually swamped with bible bashers? That's
> what  rec.food.veg  seems  like  to  me.  If we can't discuss our likes and
> dislikes  openly  in  this newsgroup where can we? Why should we change our
> behaviour to satisfy the non vegetarian readers?
> 
> To end on a note of intolerance:
> 
> I  think  *everbody*  should  stop  killing  animals  for  food,  clothing,
> experimentation,  whatever.  No  if's  no but's, no nothing. If you think I
> am  a  looney,  good for you, I probably am, but you aren't going to change
> my  mind  just  by telling me I am. Come to that you aren't going to change
> my  mind  no  matter  what  you say, so please go away unless you can leave
> your  preaching  out  of  this  newsgroup.  This  is  *not* a newsgroup for
> animal  killers  to  convince  vegetarians of the errors of their ways, nor
> is it a newsgroup to teach tolerance amongst vegetarians, so just butt out!
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Michael Traub
> BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk

Here! Here!  Well said, Michael!  If I can't relax and take it easy in this
newsgroup, we might as well change the name to
Rec.Food.The-errors-of-vegetarianism.

-- 
****************************** "My situation is a solemn one: Life is offered
* 491MILEY@GW.WMICH.EDU      * me on the condition of eating beefsteaks...My
* or                         * will contains directions for my funeral, which
* X91MILEY@GW.WMICH.EDU      * will be followed not by mourning coaches, but by
* Tim Miley                  * oxen, sheep, flocks of poultry, and a small
* Western Michigan University* traveling aquarium of live fish, all wearing
* Kalamazoo, Michigan        * white scarves in honor of the man who perished
****************************** rather than eat his fellow-creatures..."- GBS
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: amy young <alyoung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Beef minus the cow
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 19:26:08 -0500

In article <1992Apr9.001857.20527@reed.edu> zeke@reed.edu (Zeke Koch) writes:
>Rob Beauchamp writes:>

>Hmmm, most of the reason I became a vegetarian was to avoid that
>"intense ground beef flavor."  I personally have always found veggie
>burges better than `real' burgers!  Seems like one of the best uses
>would be cost.  I never really did understand people craving meat
>though.

Probably the same way some can't understand my craving for brocolli at
times... or your craving for something others around you might not
like.  I also wouldn't call all desires for taste a "craving," at
least to me there is a difference. 

>I think it could be great.  By the way, has Fresh Start (The
>non-dairy-breakfast-drink-in-a-regular-milk-carton?) made it to your
>shelves yet?  I haven't seen it at the local safeway here in Portland,
>but I had some in Arizona.  It's basically soy milk marketed for
>lactose intolerant people.

Are there advantages for using soy milk in cooking?  Lower fat?  ??

amy
-- 
******************************************************************************
"Quick to judge, quick to anger.... slow to understand. 
	       		Ignorance and prejudice, and fear, walk hand in hand."
              						--Neil Peart
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kupstas@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Eileen Kupstas)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: RECIPE: Red-Cooked Seitan (wheat gluten)
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:42:37 GMT
Distribution: rec.food.veg
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

This is a very plain, not spicy dish. Goes very well with rice and
something spicy.

Eileen
---------------------------------------------------

Red-Cooked gluten
From _the Key to Chinese Cooking_ by Irene Kuo

24 pieces boiled gluten (about 1" by 1/2")
	[canned is fine - ek]
1/2 cup sliced bamboo shoots
12 small dried black mushrooms (presoaked)
1 cup hot water
4 tbls oil
2 tbls dark soy sauce
1 tbls dry sherry
1/2 tsp sugar
3/4 cup mushroom soaking liquid
1 tbls sesame oil

Rinse and drain bamboo shoots. Pour the hot water over the mushrooms
and soak for 1 hour. Squeeze them over the soaking bowl and reserve the liquid. Rinse the mushrooms briefly, squeeze dry, and de-stem. Slice the caps into
1/2" pieces. Measure out 3/4 cup of teh mushroom soaking liquid, avoiding
the "dregs".

Heat wok or large, heavy skillet ove rhigh heat. Add 1 tbls oil, heat for 
30 seconds. Add the bamboo shoots and cook for 1 minute to extract 
the water. Remove. Wipe the pan, heat until hot, add the remaining 
3 tbls oil. Heat until hot. Add the mushroom and gluten pieces and
stir rapidly for 30 seconds to caot with oil. Lower the heat, add the 
soy sauce, sherry, and sugar. Add bamboo shoots and stir briskly to 
season them. Ad dthe mushroom liquid, even out the contents of the 
pan, turn heat to low, cover, and simmer for 30 minutes.

Uncover, raise heat to make the liquid sizzle and stir rapidly for abou;t 
10 seconds. Add the sesame oil, stir briskly a few times, and pour
into heated serving dish. 

Note: you can use deep fried gluten in this also.
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: the single vegetarian
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:34:47 GMT
Reply-To: das@voodoo.boeing.com
Organization: BoGART Pretty Pictures

It's interesting:  none of the guys I've dated since I became a vegetarian
were vegetarian, but they all, without any urging from me, started cutting
down on meat or eliminating it completely whenever we were together.  For
some reaso (whatever it is, I like it!) I tend to attract men who are good
cooks, and all of them had no problem in making all veg meals when I was
around.  My current (very serious) sweetie is not vegetarian per se, but
grew up in a family that basically couldn't afford meat, so he never really
got into a big meat-eating habit.  He makes tuna samdwiches for his lunch
sometimes and will occasionally eat meat when we go out, but that's about it.
We eat most dinners together, and he's been delighting in finding new and
exciting veg recipes to make (he recently bought Lord Krishna's Cuisine, and
has been working his way through that - yum!).  

I guess it does bother me a bit to see other people eating meat, but I'm
of the "I don't want them to tell ME what to eat, so I'm not going to tell
them what to eat" school of thought.  I figure, the more we can convince
people that meat-free food can be just as tasty and nourishing as meat food,
the more converts we will get.  My mother, an avowed meat eater, told me
recently that since I became veg, she's been eating veg meals several times
a week (beleive me, this is an amazing development!).   Many of my meat-eating
friends who first tried making vegetarian dishes after inviting me over for
dinner (and yes, when responding to any kind of invitation that involves
food, I mention that I'm a vegetarian, and offer to bring a veg dish - most
of the time they refuse and say they'll make something), have starting doing
more meat-free cooking.  I think in many cases it just takes exposure to good
veg cooking for them to realize that it's good, usually cheaper, and you
generally feel great afterwards!

-- 
Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: janet@indetech.com (Janet Christian)
Subject: Re: Flour Tortillas
Organization: Independence Technologies, Inc. Fremont, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:19:10 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.144911.7380@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) writes:
>
>All day long at work I dream about the evening meal and wrapping things up in 
>flour tortillas.  Currently, it's refried beans and rice, plus tomatoes, 
>lettuce, hot pepper sauce etc.
>
>My question is:  would someone post other types of foods and can be wrapped up
>in flour tortillas?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>JH

Well, being a transplanted Texan, I have a great idea! I practically grew
up on breakfast tacos. You can put just about anything "breakfasty" in them.
My favorites were potato and egg (or egg-beaters). I also liked (before
becoming a veggie) bacon and egg (now I make them with Stripples fake bacon). 
You can really use your imagination. I like to add a little fresh tomato/
onion/hot pepper type salsa. Most of the fast-food Mexican restaurants in
San Antonio had a wonder breakfast taco selection. Our office frequently 
sent a "runner" to the nearest one to feed all us hungry slaves...

Janet
-- 
   Janet Christian             jchristian@indetech.com

My boss agrees with everything I say - well, actually, he thinks I'm working.  
"Never argue with a Scorpio - it's frustrating and you'll lose, anyway..."
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Protein (was Re: De-muffining)
Organization: UTCS
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:59:35 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.233159.28231@tcsi.com> robert@kohlrabi.tcs.com (Robert Blumen) writes:
# It seems that no single vegetable foods (except maybe quinoa or amaranth, I
# can never remember which) has "complete proteins".  Animal foods do have
# them.  Vegetable foods have partial proteins (amino acids) which must be
# "combined" in just the right way to get complete proteins.

Sigh, I guess this notion is going to continue to be propagated while we
still have organisations like the "Dairy Bureau of Canada" (or whatever)
and their equivalents in the agriculture business.  It suits them to continue
to push this piece of misinformation everywhere.  Just the other day I caught
the tail end of a program on my local PBS on "eating light".  They were 
pushing non-meat alternatives like light cheese, egg whites, skim milk etc.
Of course they had a registered dietician explain to the viewers that animal
proteins were complete, and when you ate vegetable protein you had to be careful
to properly combine them.  I wanted to see the credits at the end, and sure 
enough they took pains to thank various commercial interest groups such as
the Canadian Dairy Bureau for making the show possible.  The show was
recently made, so they have no excuse for continuing to mislead people.

It gets depressing when you realize just how the agribusiness manipulates
to keep themselves in business.  I know this is accepted business practice,
but it takes a lot of effort to educate yourself to see through the
"public service" campaigns.
From: rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck)
Subject: Re: Liquid Smoke
Organization: Pure Software, Los Altos, CA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 01:13:11 GMT

In article <1992Mar26.165126.4614@acsu.buffalo.edu> riacmt@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Carol Miller-Tutzauer) writes:
>Well, since people seem to be having trouble finding Liquid
>
>	Wright's Hickory Seasoning (Liquid Smoke)
>	Distributed by Nabisco Brands
>

I'm making this note for those folks who (like me) don't like to support the
lovely lung-cancer, uh, I mean tobacco industry.

>From "Kids Say Don't Smoke" edited by Andrew Tobias

"An Oreo boycott was begun against RJR Nabisco because RJR uses cartoon
characters in its Camel ads to attract young smokers.  Ben & Jerry's joined
the boycott on October 1990 by dropping Oreos from its ice cream.

"If it seems unfair to boycott a tobacco company's cookie division, note
that the idea for linking the two come straight from RJR itself.  In 1989
it fired Saatchi & Saatchi, the advertising agengy in charge of its
Oreo account for 18 years, as punishment for designing Northwest Airlines'
smoke-free skies campaign."

This little book is full of other fun info and facts.

I myself will not buy any RJ Reynolds Nabisco products (or any Phillip Morris
food subsidiary products, either).

-- 

Ray Peck
Pure Software
2111 Grant Road
From: jeffrey@cc.gatech.edu (Jeffrey Steinberg)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Passover Recipees for vegans
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:05:33 GMT
Reply-To: jeffrey@cc.gatech.edu
Organization: Software Research Center

I am kinda worried about what to do now that passover is coming up.

Vegtables and matzoh are the only things I can think of that are pasadech.

Is there anyone out there with a menu/recipees for a nutricious and tasty 
passover holiday??  If so, please post your recipees/menu to rec.food.recipees

Shalom,

Jeffrey


 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------				-Jeffrey L. Steinberg (jeffrey@cc.gatech.edu)
			 -Georgia Institute of Technology 
			 -Software Research Center
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hopper@cs.ucsd.edu (Steve Hopper)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Beef minus the cow
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:14:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego
Originator: hopper@empyrean.ucsd.edu


Way back, when I wasn't part of the Grain Group, I noticed that whenever
I ate a Whopper Burger I would get nauseous.  It didn't happen with
other chains burgers, only with Burger Kings.  Anyone else remember
having the same effect?  I also didn't care for meat then either
but there wasn't much in the way of alternatives.


Steve

|> 
|> Hmmm, most of the reason I became a vegetarian was to avoid that
|> "intense ground beef flavor."  I personally have always found veggie
|> burges better than `real' burgers!  Seems like one of the best uses
|> would be cost.  I never really did understand people craving meat
|> though.


-- 
Steve Hopper                    Internet: shopper@ucsd.edu
UCSD CSE Dept. 0114             Bitnet:   shopper@ucsd
9500 Gilman Drive               UUCP:     ...!uunet!ucsd!shopper
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114 USA     Voice:    +1 619 534 1335
-- 
Steve Hopper                    Internet: shopper@ucsd.edu
UCSD CSE Dept. 0114             Bitnet:   shopper@ucsd
9500 Gilman Drive               UUCP:     ...!uunet!ucsd!shopper
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114 USA     Voice:    +1 619 534 1335
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Is there a doctor in the house
Date: 17 Apr 92 07:56:25 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <AdvWS2600VB3A4aL1r@andrew.cmu.edu> dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) writes:
>
>Rich, this is exactly the type of thing you do that I find annoying
>(unless I'm completely misinterpreting what you seem to be doing, in
>which case you should explain yourself better).  

And this is where I always land up in trouble. To *me*, Rich's article
was inflammatory, I don't think he can claim ignorance as an excuse
even.


-- 
   "This isn't an argument, you're just contradicting me!"  "No I'm not."
   
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk