HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tpm@ecs (TP Monks)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: ON PULL-UPS, TRAINING, AND RELATED THOUGHTS
Date: 18 Dec 92 10:42:03 GMT

azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward) writes:

>>Not only that, in the time I'll spend not trying to do 1 armed pullups 
>>I can be avoiding the hulking monsters that live, grunt and guff in our 
>>uni gym and meet some intersting people in the pub.

>Yeah, you'll also find the hulks cant climb. Muscle bulk is heavy, you need
>small but efficient muscles. Ever noticed how the Ben Moons of this world look
>like Somali refugees? It is also very funny to watch these apes being
>able to do one arms till the cows come home, but not to lockoff properly cos
>their biceps get in the way and they have forgotten to train for lockoffs.

Heh, these people in our gym aren't climbers, they are the lowest of the low:
weight lifters.  There is one guy who regularly slaps himself in the
face to wake himself up - he obviously gets *so* bored...  I'm jacking in
weights and taking up swimming for a while instead.  This is after all the
rest season!

There was a really funny article in On The Edge about new up-and-coming
young bolt clippers in the UK, including that Scottish guy who did Hubble.
These guys really hate placing pro.  They think Malham is the ideal crag,
but they're wrong.  At their stage in training, weight loss is critical.
One of the guys, when offered an apple was heard to say 'no thanks, I
just pigged out on broccoli' BROCCOLI??  (he's recently lost about 
1.5st [12kg]).  I'd like to climb hard, but on real routes - granite
sea cliffs and the like.  I wouldn't want to resort to wasting myself 
away!  Surely that amount of dieting is about as warped as a sumo 
wrestler eating x meals a day in order to be good at his sport!
Another guy was quoted as saying that Ben Moon and Jerry M were 
'a bit slappy and lack power'.

>Most importantly, dont waste time power training unless you can run up 6a.
>You'll get FAR more return for effort learning how to read the rock, use
>your feet, and dance the moves you've read.
			^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh my god... You'll saying 'may the force be with you' next :-)
The point is that climbing in the uk in winter is usually impossible or
at least unpleasant.  Mimght as well train for next year whilst waiting.
I find that I am not strong enough to do some of the long steep
5c routes and that seconding hard routes I sometimes really need to be able
to lock off.  I therefore mainly train for endurance, but do some power
stuff too, for the day when I'm able to romp up 6a.  Why wait?

Tim
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Monks                                Vision, Speech and Signal Processing
tpm@ecs.soton.ac.uk                                    Southampton University
Tel: +44 (703) 592774                                   Fax: +44 (703) 592895
From: schuman@eacces.wpd.sgi.com (Aaron Schuman)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Southern Ontario Dolomite
Date: 11 Dec 1992 17:31:47 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics 415-390-1901
Distribution: rec
NNTP-Posting-Host: eacces.wpd.sgi.com

Does Southern Ontario have any climbing areas?  What about
the Niagara Escarpment, the 200 foot dolomite cliff with
the famous waterfall pouring over it?  Is it mostly exposed
rock, or is it smoothed over and forested?  Is dolomite
climbable, or do pieces snap off in your hands? 

I'll be spending some time in Toronto this year.  Are there
any Toronto area r.c readers who might want to team up with
an out of town partner once in a while?


					Aaron

.............................................................................
Aaron Schuman     415-390-1901     schuman@sgi.com     Silicon Graphics, Inc.
From: jacobson5821@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Devils Tower
Date: 14 Dec 92 10:58:35 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Can anyone tell me about personal experiences climbing at Devil's Tower.  I
would like to take a trip out there next summer and climb the 5.6 route.  It
will be my first multi-pitch climb.  I heard that there are fixed pitons on the
route, is this true?  Thanks, Paul

email me at Jacobson5821@iscsvax.uni.edu

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: ice climbing info, New Mexico????
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:00:03 GMT

Briefly, I will be romping around the Los Alamos area
for New Years, and I'm considering bringing along my
all-too-seldom used ice climbing gear.  Would anyone 
have any idea what my chances are of finding something
that is a reasonable one day adventure for the 
not-so-hard core guy?

email would be fine, thanks,

				- Greg

--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.| "Spoils of war are spoils of war,
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|  says junk man, owner of the junk. 
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|  Grafitti man's got something to
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|  say. "   - John Trudell
From: mvanwouw@fraser.sfu.ca (Mark Van Wouw)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: travel insurance
Date: 16 Dec 92 00:01:51 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada


Do any Canadians know of good (ie. cheap that covers climbing) insurance
for climbing in the US?  I'm in the Vancouver area.

Thanks.

Mark van Wouw   Simon Fraser University
mvanwouw@sfu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: janem@janem.mentorg.com (Jane Merrow)
Subject: 2-way radios
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:28:52 GMT
Reply-To: jane_merrow@mentorg.com
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corporation, Wilsonville, OR
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


--

After a couple of situations where noise of wind or water
and the outcroppings along a route have made communication 
between climber and belayer practically impossible, I noticed 
a headset 2-way radio in an REI catalog and thought, "Well,
maybe...". 

Has anyone tried such a technological solution?  (It does seem
somewhat excessive, doesn't it?)  Does anyone have any non-
technological solutions to letting someone know when to up-rope,
let out slack, watch me, etc. when you can't see or hear them?
 
-----------------------------
Jane Merrow
   jane_merrow@mentorg.com
From: L.Dekker@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: World Champs, Birmingham (UK)
Date: 14 Dec 92 11:38:40 GMT

Did anyone go to see the above on Sunday?
What happened?

I went on Saturday to see the women's quarter finals, men's
quarter finals and the women's semi finals.  What a brilliant
day out!  Nice climbing, shame about the commentary...  
Just who  w a s  that Moffatt bloke, anyway?!

Being new to this whole business, I was impressed at how 
unglitzy and relaxed it all was, how the climbers mixed in 
and sat with the crowd after they'd done their stuff.  It was 
particularly cute how they all scrambled out after isolation
to view the route, like a bunch of eager, scruffy kids in baggy 
leggings and weird hairdos.  I guess it won't be like that 
forever, especially with Olympic status coming up.  Shame.

But one of the most encouraging things was how different 
were the physiques of all the climbers, from the bits-of-
string-tied-together build, the tall obviously athletic 
looking ones and the short compact ones.  After seeing 
Robyn Erbesfield in action, I'll never complain about a
long reach again!
Xref: sparky rec.crafts.misc:933 rec.crafts.textiles:2383
From: chamberl@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Anne Chamberlain)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.textiles
Subject: Re: felting
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:23:52 GMT
Reply-To: chamberl@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Anne Chamberlain)
Followup-To: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.textiles
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


I have been fascinated by the discussion on felting because I've never
known anyone who has done this before.  My question is this:

What do you do with your felt?  What are you making it for?

Anne
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
From: schlumpf@uimrl7.mrl.uiuc.edu ()
Subject: Re: Mask Molding
Reply-To: schlumpf@uimrl7.mrl.uiuc.edu ()
Organization: Materials Research Lab
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:51:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.192318.6252@igor.tamri.com>,
viviana@igor.tamri.com (Vivian Aldridge) writes:

|>Hi,
|>I'm trying to find out how to make a REALISTIC
|>mask mold without smothering my subject (victim).
|>Does anyone know the different methods of mask molding? Or
|>does anyone know the names of books I could refer to?
|>I am planning to adhere photos to the mask so it needs
|>to have a surface that will accept them.
|>
|>Thanks in advance from your ideas and knowledge!
|>
|>Vivian
|>
|>viviana@tamri.com
|>

not that I've ever done this or anything, but I was watching some 
show on the Discovery channel not so long ago about a guy who 
was going up and down South America or maybe it was Africa, 
can't remember. I think it was Africa. Well, anyway, he was
 making statues of the native peoples there by encasing them 
in plaster of paris or some such molds. In order not to smother them, 
they either  cleared the nostrils of the plaster or stuck straws up
their nostrils so they could breathe. I don't think I could do it (stand
still that long) but he had some very nice statues from his trips.

Couldn't you paste the photos on after the mold is finished and
then lacquer them  with something? (the mask, not the person!).

Trying to be helpful-

Kay Schlumpf
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.textiles
From: lrfox@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (linda ream fox)
Subject: Re: felting
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:01:21 GMT

Well it makes lovely warm:
mittens, hats, (boots--if you're really into Mongolia culture), vests, jackets
.  Or you can make things like bags and purses.

What would you make with a textile that was thick, soft, fuzzy, warm and 
largely waterproof?

LRFOX
From: gpt@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (gabe.p.torok)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Found enameling supplier
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:12:16 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T


	Mike-
Sorry, that old number for Allcraft was REALLY old.  
The new one is 1 800 645 7124.
			Aliza
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
From: mnj@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (madhuri.jarwala)
Subject: Re: Xmas gifts for a quilt-o-maniac
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:21:51 GMT

My husband gave me a great gift for my birthday. It is from the catalog
of Metropolitan Musiem of Art in NYC. 
It is a little box which contains 16 painted wooden blocks. The blocks are
painted in different colors on each of the six faces. Some faces are solid
and otheres have a diagonal line cutting across with each triangle in 
separate color. All blocks are alike. So now you can bring up different
faces of each block to form a 4x4 design. Endless number of block designs 
are possible. 3x3 designs can also be made. 
I love it. Reminds me of the fun of playing with blocks.
Hope I have described it ok. If you are handy, you can easily make one
yourself.

--Madhuri Jarwala
mnj@cbnewsk.att.com
From: viviana@igor.tamri.com (Vivian Aldridge)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Mask Molding
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:23:18 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

Hi,
I'm trying to find out how to make a REALISTIC
mask mold without smothering my subject (victim).
Does anyone know the different methods of mask molding? Or
does anyone know the names of books I could refer to?
I am planning to adhere photos to the mask so it needs
to have a surface that will accept them.

Thanks in advance from your ideas and knowledge!

Vivian

viviana@tamri.com
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.textiles
From: laurie@rtr.com (Laurie Moskow)
Subject: felting
Summary: looking for felting equipment
Keywords: felting,fulling board
Organization: Ready-to-Run Software, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 01:05:40 GMT

Does anyone out there know where I can get a fulling board for felting?

Also, any information on felting rates for various types of wool, and
sources, would be greatly appreciated.  I have a few fleeces -- one Romney,
one Corriedale, and a couple of unidentified ones (I suspect they are also
Corriedale or Romney).  How will these felt?  The woman who taught me how
to felt said she used a Corriedale/Targhee mixture, but I would have to
mail order that as Targhee is not common in my area.

Any info is appreciated.  You can email me or post the info for any other
interested parties.  Thanks!

Laurie Moskow
laurie@rtr.com
From: bradshaw@taney.uscghq.uscg.mil
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: caning vidio request
Date: 15 Dec 92 10:10:58 EST
Organization: United States Coast Guard

Could anyone recomend a good instructional vidio on caning?

eddie bradshaw        bradshaw@taney.uscghq.usgc.mil
From: doss@crick.bchs.uh.edu (Dj)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Re: Gluing glass and metal question
Date: 14 Dec 1992 14:44:48 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
NNTP-Posting-Host: crick.bchs.uh.edu

In article <Bz0xrC.BF6@nic.umass.edu> s6420120@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Mark  
LeLacheur) writes:

> Your best bet is using a craft glue called Aleene's Tacky Glue.  Take my word  
for it (as an experienced crafter and jewelry maker) this stuff really works.  


OK...my two cents...I USED tacky glue, I USED Elmer's, I USED 'Jewel It' and  
most recently I tried something called 'E-6000', it's put out by a company  
called Eclectic...I think I read about it here first and then a book I got  
recommended it...of all the glues I used it works the best...the tacky glue  
doesn't hold nearly as well for things like jewels and glass on metal..unless  
you use really copious amounts...this E-6000 is an epoxy (premixed) that also  
dries clear (IF you leave alone after you apply it) and it dries pretty  
quickly..so far I haven't had ANY trouble with stuff falling apart..it's  
relatively cheap and it goes a long way...it DOES have some fumes, though.

Hope this helps...

-Dj
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,misc.wanted
From: dlc@ddsdx2.jhuapl.edu (Dave Collard x7468)
Subject: HAT BLOCK? For making hats
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 20:19:53 GMT

IF anybody knows of where a hat block, brim block or
other hatmaking supplies can be obtained, PLEASE let
me know.  My wife is into making hats and wants a hat
block for Christmas.  

A used one would be fine.  Does anybody else make hats
as a hobby out there?  If so, where do you get your
supplies?  I would like to know if *anybody* makes hats,
so let me know if you do.

Thanks,

--Thor
dlc@ddsdx2.jhuapl.edu
collard@capsrv.jhuapl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: murray@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com (Charlie Murray)
Subject: Re: Aeration of wort?
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:05:00 GMT
Organization: IBM, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina

In article <1992Dec16.181916.10115@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, andy rogers <rogers@ial3.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:
|> In article <1992Dec16.161001.9327@sernews.raleigh.ibm.com> Charlie Murray,
|> murray@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com writes:
|> >My local homebrew shop (American Brewmaster in Raleigh, NC) is going to sell
|> >an aeriation device that is basically a fish tank bubbler.  The claim is that
|> >by leaving this thing in your primary for the first 24 hours, you will get
|> >superior aeriation and subsequently fermentation (versus the slosh method).
|> >Are they on the mark?
|> 
|> consider that you will be pumping air from the room into your beer and that
|> air will be replacing the CO2 which would otherwise be resting in the
|> fermenter headspace. unless you've also got a tank of 'clean' oxygen you're
|> pumping from.

I believe they expect the fermenter to be open when the bubbler is in place,
so that any air in the headspace will be exhausted.  Then, after 24 hours, you
remove the bubbler, place an airlock, and ferment as normal.  I'm not sure
I understand the significance of your point, not understanding the affects
on the wort from the CO2 (or lack thereof) in the headspace anyway.
From: steve@caticsuf.csufresno.edu (Steve Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Kegs
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:20:50 GMT
Organization: CSU, Fresno


Okay, I give.  What's the net.wisdom on getting ones hands
on cheap soda kegs?  I've been talking all afternoon and 
still haven't found anybody who will sell me kegs.

I've talked to Coke, Pepsi and Seven Up -- they all say
that they send their old kegs back to their HQ for recycling.
Everybody else I've talked to (even those under Beverage
Dispensing Equipment in the yellow pages) say they don't
sell them.

Is my trouble because I live in a one-horse town or because
I'm going about this the wrong way?  Tell me your success 
stories so that I may learn.. :)

--steve
-- 
Steve Mitchell / steve_mitchell@csufresno.edu / steve@caticsuf.csufresno.edu
"STUFF: Anything that can be used for homebrewing."  "JUNK: Everything else
you thought could be used for homebrewing, but can't."
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: ralph@minnow.sp.unisys.com (Ralph Smith)
Subject: Re: Aeration of wort?
Summary: Does it really happen?
Reply-To: ralph@minnow.UUCP (Ralph Smith)
Organization: Unisys Corporation
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:13:46 GMT

Somebody writes:
> I have heard alot of talk on this newsgroup lately about improper aeration 
> of the wort being the cause of stuck fermentations.  
I have been wondering about this aeration thing for some time now.
A few years ago, I was setting up a marine aquarium and the general
feeling at that time was that the bubblers in a tank provide virtually
no aeration of significance, and that the bulk of the aeration effect was
at the water/air interface on the surface of the tank.
So, my question is:
Whats all this about shaking and stirring your wort? According to the
aquarists(?) we're just fooling ourselves.
Is the real benefit just the mixing action with the yeast, exposing it   
to all that good wort faster?
Or - are the aquarium folks all wet?

-- 
"Insanity is a full time job" - Bad Religion, Insanity
Ralph Smith 
Unisys Corporation         email to:
(612) 635-3008             minnow%ralph@rosevax.rosemount.com
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: sayre@chopin (Kirk Sayre)
Subject: Fermentation time
Organization: CSIS American University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:32:39 GMT

I am currently brewing my third batch of beer and I have a question.
Is it reasonable for a high gravity beer to ferment completely in
under 48 hours?  The reason I ask is that in my last batch (6 pounds
canned extract, 2 pounds honey) and in my current batch 
(10 pounds canned extract) the fermentation stopped after
approximately 36 hours.

Both batches started out with a tremendous initial fermentation (both
blew off close to 1.5 gallons of beer, and I almost had my eye put out
by the blowoff tube plug exploding out of the carboy on the most
recent batch).  The fermentation was done with ale yeast at
approximately 75 degrees.  I have tried re-aerating (sp) the partially
fermeneted beer, but it doesn't make any difference.

I bottled the previous batch after letting it sit around doing nothing
for a week and it came out tasting great, with a reasonably high
alchohal content.

Does anyone have any guesses as to what could be happening here?  Any
help will be greatly appreciated.

                               Thanks,
			               Kirk Sayre
				       sayre@chopin.cas.american.edu


Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: JACK.WEBB@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Jack \"CW\" Webb")
Subject: Phoenix area beer joints
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA USA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:36:53 GMT

Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, but I'm not running a UNIX box (gasp!), so
can't do wonderful things like FTP.

Could someone please e-mail me info on brewpubs and/or good beer places to
visit whilst on a trip to the Phoenix area?  It's a vacation type trip, so the
more info the merrier  :-)

Thanks!
Jack
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: Gleaming immersion chiller
Reply-To: gak@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:38:16 GMT

In article 4GL@news.dtc.hp.com, peterm@dtc.hp.com (Sweet Pete) writes:
>
>...where they get Hetch Hetchy water...

Gesundheit!

---
Richard Stueven       AHA# 22584 |----------|
Internet:            gak@wrs.com |----GO----| Disclaimer: I'm not allowed to
ATTMAIL: ...!attmail!gakhaus!gak |---SHARX--|             have opinions.
Cow Palace:            107/H/3-4 |----------|

From: Chuck.Cole@f78.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Chuck Cole)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: COMPUSENET DEC 10
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:57:48 -0600

Hello atkinson (1:282/31),

In REC.CRAFTS.BREWING on <Dec 14 18:45> to All, you wrote:

 a> If we attach the following rider, it seems that commercial 
 a> services will either not reproduce the rec.crafts.brewing 
 a> postings since honoring our rider would cause violations of 
 a> their ban, or, hopefully, they might relax their ban on 
 a> reproducing their postings:

 a> "This Posting is hereby placed in the public domain, and may be
 a> copied (manually or electronicly) freely from any location,
 a> including commercial services which have made copies".

We need to add a copyright notice first, and then grant permission to freely
copy any original or derivative.

By definition (check Webster's New Collegiate), asserting "public domain" grants
the right for anyone to use it ("appropriate it") for their commercial gain. 
That's the wrong privilege to grant!  Asserting copyright and permitting certain
uses is essentialy "freeware" that is protected from commercial appropriation.

Carrying the permission over to "any derivative" is a legal smoke screen that
can easily be construed to release almost ANY other brewing data.  Often, the
corroborating evidence of apparent "first publication" in usenet would be very
easy to obtain and very difficult to refute.

The first step should protect authorship credits and distribution rights, while
the second step might justify our publishing any of their stuff.  I really want
to see that CS hold broken wherever feasible: their asserting rights to
appropriate freely given material does not deserve to stand.  Send them
thousands of poison pills... deny their unilateral claim to restrict authors.
   grrrr

 * Origin: Atlas of Winding & Scenic Country Roads (1:282/78)
From: pklauren@nmsu.edu (Patrick M Klaurens)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Brewing, other things besides beer???
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:34:05 GMT
	<Bz9A6p.4Iy@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: NMSU Computer Science

one of my professors is allergic to beer and scotch, but loves his rum
and cokes.  Grains????
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: golka@bnr.ca
Subject: Re: KegHeads out there?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:45:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.235556.9758@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>
awds_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Adam Edwards) writes:
>I'm seeking some net wisdom on the subject of kegging.  I can't afford
>the expensive Cornelius system, but I've catalogues featuring 
>the plastic Rotokegs, and the small aluminum kegs(forgot the name).
>These Rotokegs come in 5 gallon sizes, for about 65$.  This is an ideal
>size for me(newbie).  They are pressurized by CO2 capsules.  Anyone
>use these?  How much CO2 is used to pressurize one/keep one under pressure?
>How long will beer keep in one, and is it easy to clean?  Any email
>or references to an archive would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you!
Don't do it! I had one for years, and recently converted to 
a Cornelius. Its great. The plastic kegs are tricky to get sealed.
If they don't seal, then you have to open them, risking  contamination,
as well as spend a little crtridge or two to repressurize.
I ate  up the extra cost of a Cornelius system in those little $0.50
a pop cartridges. Also I definitly used up the difference in price
in lost hair worrying whether it was sealed or not.
I recently sold my Rotokeg with a few boxes of cartridges for $30 to 
someone who wants to try it. I'm hoping he will decide to move to 
a Cornelius, and sell it to someone else after he gets some kegging
experience. If yo can get one cheap, try it for A WHILE, but plan 
to move to a real kegging system.

Bill Crick  Brewius, Egro Sum!