HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:33:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      RE: Homosexuality (again)

From:     Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@EDU.LOUISVILLE.ULKYVM>
Subject:  Continuation of Homosexuality (the sequel)

>I agree.  That's why I also don't think we should go after any group of people
>and tell them that they are wrong and are going to burn in hell. ...

agree that this is not a helpful approach as instead of drawing people to
Christ we are pushing them away.

>..... Not only
>is that putting them in their own hell (imagine being told that you were
>going to hell unless you changed your sexual practices), but causing undue
>stress on the person doing the cursing. ......

Very valid points.  It increases the stress on both sides.

>.... Learn to live and let live, and
>do less judging of other people.  Isn't that what Christianity is all about?

Not quite.  I think I see what you are getting at though.
How about "love and let live, judge not others least ou be judged" for a
summary of christianity ?

Thanks Angela Z.


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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: jeffgus@netcom.com (Jeffrey Gustafson)
Subject: Re: The unelectable elect.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 04:45:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM> writes:

>>I can well remember a Sunday School teacher once saying that that divine
>>election had three votes, God voted aye, Satan voted nay, and we each held
>>the deciding vote.  What drivel!  That reduces God to a bystander instead
>>of a sovereign who chooses His will with no recourse to others.

>Becareful of the biblical truth you so quaintly call drivel..
>God is sovereign but he is no dictator/tyrant/spiritual rapist.

>If God implanted his Spirit in me without my persmission then I see that
>as being as equally a case of Spiritual Rape as demonic possesion.

	John 6:44 "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent
Me *draws* him, and I will raise him up on the last day."
	John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you, and
appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit..."
	Luke 17:5 "And the apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!"

	Who are we to tell God what to do?  He's GOD!

				...Jeff
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 09:04:45 -0700
From:         "Steven E. Hoell" <seh@NEUTRON.PHYSICS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Short Summaries of Christianity

The prolog of the Gospel of John (1:1-17) is also
considered to be an early creed.

Steve Hoell
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Date:         Sun, 6 Sep 1992 20:32:23 -0600
From:         Glennerd Skynard <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Christian Morlity more precisely defined

Lon writes:

>Glennard Skynard cites Jesus quoting Deut.6:5 (Love the
>LORD your God with all your heart and with all you soul and
>with all your might) and Lev.19:18 (Love your neighbor as
>yourself) as a basis for defining Christian morality.
>Several years ago, I heard a series of sermons on the 10
>Commandments in which the preacher defined the first four
>commandments as the specifics of Deut.6:4 and the six
>remaining commandments as the specifics of Lev.19:18. He
>went on to say that the entirety of the rest of the Law of
>Moses fits into the 10 Commandments and therefore into the
>two Great Commandments, stating that the first four
>commandments have to do with our relationship with God, and
>the remaining six have to do with our relationship with one
>another.

>Just thought you might find this interesting . . .

>Shalom,

>Lon Mendelsohn

     Thanks for the post, Lon.  It seems that I have a lot
     of reading to do.

                         God Bless,



                        Glennerd :-)
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: the underground church
Date: 12 Sep 92 14:00:15 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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Dear saints,

As you go about your day, please occaisionally remember those your brothers
and sisters who are filling up in their own bodies the sufferings of Christ.
Realize too, that in the Spirit, you are one with them, and are to share
their sufferings.  Become aware of the continuing Cross.

Remember our brothers and sisters in Vietnam who are in jail for preaching
without government permission.

Remember the brothers and sisters in Nepal who worship at great cost.

Remember the brothers and sisters in China who are experiencing an increasing
level of persecution in many areas.  Remember those in jail, and those who
are being tortured.

Remember the brothers and sisters in Mozambique who are facing very difficult
times.

These are only a few fragments of the loaf that is being broken today for the
world.  Let us remember them until our Lord comes.  Come Lord Jesus.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:21:47 CDT
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      What have I forgotten?

 Hi Steven,
> Ian - lots of stuff concerning Word - Faith, Benny Hinn, etc...
> Kerry - NDE (Near Death Experience) article from CRI Journal

I know I didn't as before, but could you send me a copy of the article
from CRI that you are sending to Kerry. Thanks a bunch..

   Yvette Traylor     "We are His people and the sheep of his pasture."
   Dallas County Community College District             Psalm 100:3
   Computer Programmer/Analyst  in  Dallas - Texas
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 10:35:27 CDT
Reply-To:     bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com
From:         Brad Kaiser <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
Subject:      Re: John 6
              13 Sep 1992 03:22:00 GMT <9209130328.AA27613@motgate.mot.com>

Bob Weiss writes (in regard to John 6):

>> 	You seem to have overlooked 6:35

>> 	"He who has comes to Me shall never hunger,
>> 	He who believes in Me shall never thirst."

No, I haven't.  But you have to define "coming to Jesus" and
"believing in Jesus" carefully, as He would, and did.  Also, since
John 6 *still* says ...

  Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.  Whoever
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise
  him up on the last day.  For my flesh is true food, and my blood is
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  true drink.  Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  and I in him.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^
          -- Jn 6:53-55

and Scripture cannot contradict itself, I fail to see your point.

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

  "Hatred destroys.  Only love creates."
            -- St. Maximilian Kolbe, shortly before his arrest and
               martyrdom at the hands of the Nazis.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:32:47 PDT
From:         FRANK@125LAW1.LAW.UCLA.EDU
Subject:      unsubscribe

Sorry, in advance, to all you unsuspecting folk.

LISTOWNERS.  I want out.  I keep trying through the listserv to bag
this conference but to no avail.

The reason is my address has changed since I first subscribed.  My
old address is frank@law.ucla.edu.  Please UNSUBSCRIBE me.

Thanks,

Frank
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:31:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      Re: spiritual experiences

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 16:14:33 +0200
From: hutter@de.uni-ulm.rz.rzmain (Wolfgang Hutter)
Subject: Re: Spiritual Experiences

>.... but I indeed saw the Father smile one day. This was not
>with my physical eyes, but I am sure that He was smiling at me. This, by
>the way, was when He gave me green lights to start courting a girl of
>our church that is now my wife (and mother of our pre-born child).

>Does this experience help? ;-)

Wolfgang,
In short, yes.
In long, what happened to make you think this was the case ?  How did
it manifest itself ?

Reply direct if you like, via the list.  I'm also open to being told
to mind my own ......

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Carol A Long,  					DISCLAIMER - unless otherwise
IT Service,					stated this message contains
Southampton Institute of Higher Education	my opinion...probably only mine
East Park Terrace,
Southampton	SO9 4WW,   England		RELEASE - Repost at will, with
	UK Fax No : (0703) 222259		acknowlegements to author.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 10:24:08 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      homosexuality (again)

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757


I thought this conversation had finally died, but obviously it hasn't.


>love to quote the right to free speech (and choice) as it
>suits their needs, but are the first to stifle the free
>speech of any who disagree with them.

I don't think stifling free speech of the oposition is exclusive to gay
rights activists.  As far as I can tell, you can express your feelings against
anything you want to until you're blue in the face.  The problem comes in when
you try to take away someone else's right to choose what to do with their life.


>This doesn't apply only to a Gay lifestyle, but to abortion rights.

Let's not bring abortion into this as well.  One tired subject at a time is
enough, thank you.


>I feel scripture is clear on the right/wrong of a gay lifestyle,
>and individuals who continue to practice are walking a fine line.

I will discuss this one when I'm at home and have a bible with me to back up
my statements.


amzimm01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
or
amzimm01@ulkyvm.bitnet

Angela Z.
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From: psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: One little comment and question
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:35:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <01GOCZ68PPQA0006M5@RHODES.BITNET>, CORJB@RHODES.BITNET (Jason Briggs Cormier) writes...

[...]

>Why is it that homosexuality is treated as a bigger sin
>than lying or pride?

[...]

	I'm not sure that it is so treated. The key difference that I 
have noted is that there are factions that have been advocating that 
homosexual acts are not sin. Most of the posts have been made to 
address that issue.

	I'm sure if, say, Joe Isuzu stated that lying is not a sin, there 
would be posts that would address that issue.


 en agape,
 Bob
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: scripture
Date: 13 Sep 92 08:25:05 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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Could some one please tell me if the Gk word used for "scripture" in the
NT is the same word used for all writing whatsoever?  Thanks in advance,

                                                      zane
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:30:46 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: HOW are we RIGHTEOUS in Christ?

	Jesse,
	Amazingly enough, I agree with most of what you said.  And while
I agree with the outcome of your reasoning on imparted righteousness, I
disagree with one of the statements.

>But, righteousnsess in its inherent state is an attribute belonging ONLY
>to Diety, and not to anything created.
>
>Jesse

	What is righteousness?  To me, anything that is, and always has been,
in right relationship to God, is righteous.  That includes the angels in
Heaven and Adam and Eve before they sinned.  After all, it is our sin that
makes us need Christ's righteousness imputed to us.  If we didn't sin, we
wouldn't need it.  Christ is righteous because he did not sin, living a
blameless life before God.

Some of God's attributes are reserved to Him, and some can be attributes of
created beings.  I believe that while _ we _ are not righteous, it is possible
for created beings to have righteousness as an attribute.

Mark
drake@asuchm.la.asu.edu
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Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 16:59:56 CDT
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      Ministers/Preachers/Priests

 Brad:
 Michele let me read the post you sent her concerning Priests/ministers.
 As a fellow Christian, I felt that I should send you a response.
 Not to flame, but just to inform.
 (I don't wanna flame nobody...)
 I was in her account when I sent it, so...
 (this wasn't intended, it just happened!)
 Hope you guys don't mind.
 --------
 As far as the Sacraments are concerned:
 There are several that we Protestants hold dear, and I
 have already stated some of these from the "Baptist" standpoint.
 1. Marriage-God ordained this way back in the Garden of Eden.
 2. Baptism- we do this to follow the example Christ set.
 3. Communion- sometimes us Baptists call this "the Lord's Supper".
 --------
 (sorry for the incorrect english...)
 -------
 Our Ministers are no less important than your Priests.
 They are called by God to do his work... which includes
 Marryin' folks, buryin' folks, administering Communion when we
 do observe it.
 These guys, who are also undershepherds of HIS FLOCK, are there
 if we ever need to just ask them to pray with us.
 -------
 Example:
   I went to my Pastor, and said, "I have a problem I wouldd
  hope you can give me some Christian advice/councel about"
 He said, "ok... what's the problem you're facing?"
 I told him what my problem was, and he said, "have you prayed
 about this and  asked God's forgiveness???"
 Told him, "yes, I did"...
 Brother Miley (My Pastor) said, "would you want to have prayer
 right now????"
 After we prayed, he said, "stick to THE BOOK, and let GOD
 guide you through this mess... Lean on him, he'll see you through".
 ------
 I'm sure your Priest or Bishop has done this many times
 concerning the members of the congregation in your Church! :)
 God has different places for his messengers, and differnet
 (oops...Different) ways of getting HIS message across.
 Preacher/ Priest / Minister ... they are all doin' the same
 thing.
 May God Bless You.
 Theresa
  "G"
 PS. CAROL!!! You're of the Lutheran Persuasion, right?
     Can you help me here??? Tell me what you think.
     How does your Minister go about the task God has
     for him to do?


 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Original_cc:  HUTTER
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:04:00 N
From:         Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Spiritual Gifts

In a message of Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:48:37 CST
Received on Wed,  9 Sep 92 09:16 N
Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM> wrote:

>If people perminately had the I cor 14 gifts then pray tell why are not
>all our hospitals empty/demons cast out/ seas parted etc etc etc..
>
>No one PERMINATELY has the gift of Miracles, not even Jesus. Jesus acted
>under the annointing of the Holy Spirit as a man, no one PERMINATELY has
>any of the 1 Cor Gifts (oh I wish we did)..

You didn't read my message carefully enough - or I didn't spend enough
effort on being clear. I didn't talk about the permanent widespread
presence of these gifts in the Church (who says that there is no one in
the whole world who has the gift of healing/exorcism/miracles???), but
that these gifts rest with a  * PERSON *  permanently! That means that I
think that once a person receives a certain gift from God this gift will
rest with the person until (s)he dies or is raptured.

>Public Tounges for the edification of the Body are not something we have all
>the time either (IMHO). Tounges for ediification of the body is really
>just a prophesy in a non native language to the hearing audience.

Someone (Stephen) addressed this topic already a few months ago. The
kind of tongues Paul speaks about in 1Cor.12&14 are not prophecies, but
praise. - Read it!

>Personal tounges for self edification/prayer/intercession is another
>matter.

From which passage of Scripture do you deduce this opinion? - Finally
one person who has to find  * biblical *  evidence for his beliefs. ;-)

Love,

Wolfgang <><
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 10:16:00 CDT
From:         Sieg A U R I C H <B882SA@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>
Subject:      Novosibirsk contack?

I am looking for a contact in Novosibirsk.  I have a friend who will be
going their soon.  Does anyone have an internet/bitnet address of anyone
in the city of Novaibirsk, Russia?

                ><> In & For HIS Service, <><
                        Sieg :{>
                B882SA@UTARLG.UTA.ED
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:21:50 EDT
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      Spiritual Gifts - part 4

Continuing with the serving gifts...

5  giving - The special attribute given by the Holy Spirit to certain
members of the body of Christ (church) to contribute their material
resources to the work of the Lord with liberality and cheerfulness.

6.  mercy - The special...to feel genuine empathy and compassion for
individuals, both Christian and non-Christian, who suffer distressing
physical, mental, or emotional problems, and to translate that
compassion into cheerfully-done deeds which reflect Christ's love
and alleviate the suffering.

7. discernment - The special...to know with assurance whether certain
behavior purported to be of God is in reality divine, demonic,
psychological, or artificial

8.  faith - The special... to demonstrate a heroic, unwavering trust and
confidence in the power of God to reveal Himself in extraordinary deeds
that may seem impossible to men.

9.  hospitality - The special attribute...to provide an open house
and a warm welcome for those in need of food and lodging.

IV.  Sign gifts
1.  Tongues - The special...to speak to God in a language they have
never learned and/or to receive and communicate an immediate message
of God to His People through a divinely-anointed utterance in a
language they have never learned.

2.  Interpretation of tongues - The special...to make known in the
vernacular the message of one who speaks in tongues.

3.  healing - the special... to serve as human intermediaries through
whom it please God to cure illness and restore health apart from the
use of natural means.

4.  miracles - The specail...to serve as human intermidiaries through
whom it please God to perform powerful acts that are perceived by observ
observers to have altered the ordinary course of nature


Steps to discovering your gifts by C. Peter Wagner

1. explore the possibilities...read about the spiritual gifts
2. experiment with as manyspiritual gifts as possible...be open
   also to what gifts you do not have...determing them will help
   you to spend less time on the wrong things
3. examine your feelings...you will feel good about using your
   gifts...if you really detest doing something, you probably
   don't have that gift
4.  look for things to happen...if you are using your gifts, you
   will be effective
5.  expect confirmation...others will affirm that you have a gift
   or are good at a particular thing...if the Body doesn't confirm
   something you think you're good at, re-examine  and do some mor
   discovering

Sorry for the length...the book is 76 pages long, so this is
a much condensed version.  As I said, there is a questionnaire/
discovery tool also.

Any questions...I'll be glad to see if I can find answers.
                      the end  :-)
Carol Nemec
ya67@ferris
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:50:57 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Catholic or Ignorant?

 I am not Catholic and I am not ignorant.  What does that make me?
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From: nabil@cae.wisc.edu (Nabil Ayoub)
Subject: Re: Tradition (was Re: Second parousia in the past?)
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 13 Sep 92 21:53:33 CDT

In article <1992Sep13.005636.13404@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan) writes:
>
>What exactly do you mean by "the authenticity of Tradition", anyway?

To be more specific, I will change it to the authenticity of the *concept*
of Tradition. The verse I quoted earlier and a bunch of other ones that
were posted earlier, *prove beyond doubt* that there were teachings that were 
orally passed. What was written is a subset of what was passed on by the
Apostles. So in no way "Sola Scriptura" can be justified. 

Irene pasi,

Nabil
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 11:49:59 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      very weird rumor

Hi all:

A customer came in yesterday and told me something I do not yet believe.
He has a secular friend who went to an Ozzy Osbourne concert last week
at which he claims the following occured.  Can anyone *definitely*
confirm or deny this:

At the concert, Ozzy brought his kids onstage, stated that he had become
a Christian, and said that henceforth he will sing only Christian music.

This customer is someone I know fairly well.  Usually he is a reliable
source of information.  However, on this one, I must have some independent
confirmation before I can accept this rumor as true.

Any help?

Love INC,
         --Kerry