HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (jodi.weber)
Subject:  Holiday wishes for us 
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:06:00 GMT



I had a rather interesting experience this morning.  A colleague of mine
and I were talking about the holidays, and the religious vs. secular
value placed on each.  He is born-again Xian, so he naturally regards
Xmas as the most important and wonderful holiday of the year, and I,
meanwhile, told him how fun but relatively minor Hannukah was.  He stated
that he knew it seemed to hold more importance because it falls somewhere
near Xmas, which I confirmed.

He then proceeded to tell me how it was too bad that I couldn't enjoy,
"just at face value," the more secular parts of Xmas like the tree or
Santa Claus or some of the seasonal music.  I frankly resented very much
his pitying me because I chose not to share in the joy of HIS holiday,
but instead of voicing my ire, I asked him how he, with his religious
beliefs (he was raised baptist and has also been "born again"), would
promote the secularization of his most important holiday, and not stress
the religious importance of it.  Many people at this time of year, I told
him, are disturbed by the commercialization and secularization of the
holiday.  

He started to tell me that the secularization really didn't bother him,
but his words faltered somewhat when I expressed to him my surprise at
hearing him say that, so either I ended up putting him on the defensive, or
I think it actually does bother him.

At any rate, I explained to him that we have our own joyous holidays
to celebrate, including Hannukah, which are just as special to us as
Xmas is to him.

I also honestly am bothered by the fact that somewhere in the back of
his mind (or maybe in the front), I think he thinks or hopes he can
change what I believe and feel.  But we compare notes on our respective
religions every now and then, at lunch or just in the office, so I hope
I'm actually the one enlightening him.  I'm not looking to change him,
I just want him to understand better who we are.



Whew!  I feel better now!



Jodi
jodiweber@attmail.com     or     jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Telnet BBS in Israel?
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:13:45 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <1ghcieINNkrf@agate.berkeley.edu>, rice@enterprise.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel S. Rice) writes:
> 	Some time ago, someone announced the availability of some
> sort of public information system on one of the Israeli campuses.
> ("could you be more vague?")  I recall telnetting to it, and finding
> it to be a sort of BBS, with want ads and other stuff like that.
> There appeared to be plans to put some other, interesting things
> on-line.  I then forgot about it for a long time, and now I am
> curious again.  Does anyone know what I am talking about who can
> remind me how to access this system?  Any clues would be appreciated.
>
> 						Dan


You're probably referring to WWW. Telnet to  vms.huji.ac.il  and login as www

In my opinion, it's the best WWW server on the net, and probably the second
best info server on the entire net. The "best" is a certain law school gopher
which shall remain nameless :-)

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL



Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm))
Subject: Recipes in general
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm))>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 02:23:45 GMT


I'm compiling, as I may have mentioned,a personal cookbook.  Anyone got any
traditional Hannukah/Rosh Hashanah or whatever recipes they would be willing
to share?  Entrees, side dishes, cookies, treats, snacks, whatever! I will use
them all!!  

Anyone got a recipe for "Haman Pockets"?  (Passover treat I heard about)

JJ
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Kahane's philosophy
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:18:28 GMT

dm = makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)

dm: 	I have no problem with Israel taking Jewish interests into account
dm: first.  It would seem as if (and if I am incorrect I apologize in
dm: advance, but please tell me why) you do have a problem with this.
dm: 
dm: 	Also, even though what you say sounds oh so nice and bleeding
dm: heartish, taken to its logical conclusion it would effect aevery
dm: decision ever made by a majority in a democracy that had an effect on
dm: those in the minority.

Aristotle, if I recall correctly, distinguishes between a democracy,
in which the people can decide anything they like without restriction,
and a republic, in which there are some constraints.  Whether I have
gotten Aristotle correctly or not, the latter condition exists in all
contemporary democracies, Israel included.

I don't see how, at this point, the discussion could fail to turn into
one of what are the roots of morality, and what the connection is
between morality based on reason and the Torah.  I won't bother to
participate in such a discussion, we have them every six months and
they don't go anywhere.  If I were capable of dealing on other than a
gut level with such questions I'd be too busy running my philosophy
store to keep up with the net.

me: And they are not to be "expelled" if they agree to surrender
me: civil rights including the right to vote.  If another country did this
me: to Jews, would we not protest?

dm: 	We probably would protest.  However, Israel is a Jewish State.  It
dm: seems to me as if (again, if I am wrong I apologize in advance but
dm: please tell me why) you are willing to sacrifice that so as not to
dm: bring in a condition that you would protest if it took place in
dm: another country.  I have no prblem with keeping Israel as a Jewish
dm: State even if it would mean creating that condition.

If an action was objectionable when Jews were the recipient, it
remains objectionable if another ethnic group is, with Jews those
doing it.  Since I agree neither to the expulsion/disenfranchisement
of Israeli citizens based on their religion/ethnicity, nor to the
disbandment of the Jewish State, I prefer other solutions.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Subject: Re: Uncircumized jews
Organization: E.E. Dept., Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 18:12:31 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-25191]: bourbon


According to halacha (sorry, don't have a source handy, I'll try to
find it), if 2 sons die because of circumcision, the 3rd is exempt.
Obviously, this and its ramifications are discussed more fully among
the commentators.

David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Chinese Food
Date: 13 Dec 92 19:50:56 GMT
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <1992Dec11.030059.6632@Princeton.EDU>, jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Solomon Weinstein) writes:
> All right, this is a rather silly question, but if you can't ask a
> stupid question among your own people, when can you?
> 
> Over the course of most of my life, I've head a number of my fellow Jews
> make jokes about our people's fondness for Chinese food. I never
> believed it until I got to college, and discovered that most people just
> don't eat Chinese as often as I and my other Jewish friends do.

Which reminds me of the guy who walks into a Chinese restaurant and sees the
owner, Mr. Lee, eating gefillte fish, chopped liver and kishe. He says, "Mr.
Lee what's going on ? " and Lee replies, "Ah, me no eat Chinese CHAZELIE".
                                                                     ^

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL






> 
> Still, my experience has been almost entirely with
> reform-to-conservative Jews from the Northeastern corner of the country.
> Judging by the number of kosher Chinese restaurants I've seen, I suspect
> that my more religious brethren share this fondness.
> 
> Does anybody else think this is true? Obviously, one can't say that all,
> or even most, Jews like Chinese food-- but it does seem that we're more
> likely to do so than non-Chinese Gentiles are.
From: sutin@ra.UCSC.EDU (Brian Sutin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: s.c.j. mentioned in YEDIOT ACHARONOT
Date: 14 Dec 1992 00:25:28 GMT
Organization: Lick Observatory UCSC
NNTP-Posting-Host: ra.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Dec12.223309.70@vms.huji.ac.il> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:

>MAZAL TOV ! Soc.culture.jewish was mentioned in an article on the Internet in
>Friday's YEDIOT ACHARONOT weekend magazine section (pg. 26; byline by Yaron
>London) 

>Starring:

>Dov Bai
>Lory Cole
>Brian Sutin

Holy B'Wana!  I don't think I've posted in three months.  I would like to
see a copy of this if anyone can send it to me for a reasonable amount of
postage (or tell me what it says).  I can't imagine what anyone could find
to quote me for.

>And Gideon Ehrlich in a supporting role

>Josh
>backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL

Brian Sutin				sutin@lick.ucsc.edu
Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: seth@inst-sun1.tmc.edu (Seth Chazanoff)
Subject: Re: Holocaust jokes (was Re: To all Jews)
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA, USA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:49:28 GMT

Another one:

A Jewish man accidently bumped into a Nazi officer in Berlin.
The Nazi screamed "Swine"
The Jew tipped his hat, smiled, and said "Goldstein"

				Seth
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dattier@ddsw1.mcs.com (DWT)
Subject: Re: Shem and Abraham (Was Re: Conversion Question)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:16:07 GMT
Organization: Contributor Account at ddsw1, Chicago, Illinois  60657

warren@nysernet.org wrote in <3027@israel.nysernet.org>:

| Perhaps another answer might be (I'd have to check the ages of
| everyone in Abraham's lineage, or look at the book with all the charts
| (but it's still in New York), that some intermediate ancestor was
| still alive and would have inherited the job, so in order to get the
| job to the correct recipient, it was handed directly to him.

`Ever was still alive, if no one else.  It took Jacob fourteen years after
Esau's threat to get to Laban's ranch in Syria, and (since I haven't the
formal education in these matters, I cannot cite the source) it's explained
that he spent the time studying with Shem and `Ever.  When I heard that I
checked the chronology, and they'd still have been alive.

David W. Tamkin   Box 59297   Northtown Station, Illinois  60659-0297
dattier@ddsw1.mcs.com    CompuServe: 73720,1570    MCI Mail: 426-1818
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Andy the Canadian twat
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:49:51 GMT

In article <92352.1746092893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>, Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
> In article <102502@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P
> Wiener) says:
>>
>>In article <dfs.724618376@sybok>, dfs@doe (David F. Skoll) writes:
>>>> Mr Skoll, please stop sending me e-mail. I don't read it and I don't
>>>> want it!
>>
>>>Well, "Andy", if you post a public denunciation of me on scj, calling
>>>me names in front of the entire scj community, I will send you e-mail
>>>to keep the discussion OFF scj.
>>
>>I've had similar problems with Andy
>>insulting without you replying.  If you do, it's harassment.


I too have had problems with Andy, who is just a rather ignorant child with
odd ideas about use of the network which he tries to impose unilaterally
 on others.  He also appears to be incapable of constructing sentences in his
native language.

Finally his definition of harassment is inconsistent with that used in 
English and Canadian law.  Sending unwanted emails and ordinary mail is
not harassment - at best it could be termed a nuisance.

Don't take him seriously and Andy, if you reply to this I will consider it
harassment.

Laurence

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: does anyone know...
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 07:14:31 GMT

In <92343.193037SJB7@psuvm.psu.edu> SJB7@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

>It's been almost six years since I was last in Jerusalem, and I've been really
>curious as to the whereabouts of Baruch Levin, who I last saw running a few
>hostels and tours in the old city, as well as sending students to Yeshivot and
>Shabbat meals.  Does anyone know where he can be reached these days?

I have heard that Baruch Levine is no longer involved in this,
although Jeff Seidel can, I believe, still be found at the Kotel after
Maariv on Shabbat, sending people to Shabbat meals.  I Jeff's group is
also doing tours, there are posters all over the Jewish Quarter of the
Old City announcing tours given by a variety of groups, if not his,
then someone else.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: elevine@world.std.com (Eugene Levine)
Subject: unhappy thoughts
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 16:21:43 GMT

           On October 28 the Gestapo, on orders from 
        the Foreign Office, began rounding up Polish 
        Jews to transport them to the Polish border. 
        Prevented from entering Poland, they were kept
        in appalling conditions in a no-man's land
        on the Polish side.... Grynszpan's parents had 
        been among the first rounded up, and the son
        had become unsettled by their fate.
                                      The War Against The Jews
                                      Lucy Dawidowicz
   Grynszpan's anguish prompted him to kill Ernst vom Rath, and this, 
in turn gave the German's a pretext to launch Kristallnacht.
   I am troubled by two things: how can the Polish-Jewish leadership
of Israel be unaware of this resonance; and, how can they
hope to maintain such a situation with the whole world watching? 
Public opinion may tolerate savagery in the Balkans, or 
even in Israel's neighbors, but I doubt it will tolerate
an endless winter of 400 people stranded by Israel between borders
in the Middle East mountains. Regardless of the provocation!
  Fair? perhaps, perhaps not. But Israel's claim to existence
is largely moral, and her security interests can only be harmed by
alienating civilized opinion.
    Is it outrageous to speculate that the Israeli left - with 
no stomach for uniformed killing - is resorting instead to a "washing
their hands of it" strategy - if the Palestinians starve, it will 
be the fault of the Lebanese (or the Arabs, or whoever), just like Gaza
or the camps destroyed in 1982 were not their fault? Is it possible that
the Right was right? that killing a few selected terrorists by 
police or military is far preferable to "more humane" measures 
like these - preferable because it selects the targets more carefully, 
because it hits the targets (i.e., the *human* targets) more reliably 
and more lethally, because it does not drag things out on the world
stage? Etc., etc., etc.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: davidh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David Klein)
Subject: The Eight Nights of Chanukah
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 08:13:23 GMT

On the eighth night of Chanukah, someone sent to me,

Eight fiddlers fiddling,
Seven rabbis dancing,
Six grandmas cooking,
Five kosher dills,
Four pounds of corned beef,
Three golden latkes,
Two matzoh balls,
and a warm bagel topped with cream cheese.

Happy Chanukah!
-- 
David H. Klein        davidh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu      Brandeis University
"The single most creative thing that a person can do is run a company."     
                           -Jerry Sterner   author of Other People's Money
<< The opinions reflected herein have no relation to Brandeis University >>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: carroll@dori.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll)
Subject: Re: Messiah Jesus and the Dispersion
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:30:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.194805.25403@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar) writes:
>
>A number of you asked me to qualify my remark that the cause 
>of the dispersion was the rejection of Jesus.

Oh, did we really? Gee, I can't seem to remember that.

>I am sure that you know there were only 40 years between the cross
>and the destruction of the temple.
>
>Consider these Talmud entries:
>
>Yoma 39b: During the last FORTY YEARS before the destruction
>of the Temple ... the scarlet thread did not become white, nor 
>did the western lamp shine; and the doors of the Holy of Holies 
>would fling themselves open of their own accord.
>
>Rosh Hashanah 31b: For the FORTY YEARS before the destruction of the 
>Temple the scarlet thread never turned white but it remained red.
>
>Analysis: When the western lamp fails to shine it means that God's
>Divine presence the Shechinah has left the Temple.
>
>When the scarlet thread fails to turn white it means the nation
>Israel has not been forgiven by God.  As there has been no proper 
>Yom Kippur then in the eyes of God Israel has been guilty since that
>year.
>
>Try and see beyond the coincidence.
>
>I am curious to see what EXCUSES you crazy Orthodox come up with now.

Well, first, I'm hardly a "crazy Orthodox"; although everyone who
knows me will be glad to confirm that I'm crazy, I'm a
Reconstructionist who attends a Conservative synagogue.

And as for excuses, I don't see why we need one. I don't know the
relevant Talmud; I don't exactly bring the talmud to my office (I
don't have enough shelf-space for my research materials). But what I
do know is: the Talmud is a great piece of work, and understanding it
can be very tricky. To be able to interpret and analyze Talmud
correctly takes many years of study. Anyone who is clearly ignorant,
and quotes sections from the Talmud with _no_ relevant context,
doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.

If we try taking things in serious context, there is more than enough
written by the Jewish sages of the past to tear your argument to
shreds. I'd recommend reading _You_Take_Jesus_, which should refute
your current argument, and any other that you choose to post.

Now, do us all a favor, and stop wasting bandwidth. Soc.culture.jewish
is explicitly _not_ for evangelists to use for trying to convert Jews.

	<MC>

-- 
|| Mark Craig Carroll: <MC>     ||"If love remains
|| Univ of Delaware, Dept of CIS|| Though everything is lost
|| Grad Student/Labstaff Hacker || We will pay the price
|| carroll@udel.edu             || But we will not count the cost" -Neil Peart
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Jewish Joke of the Day
Organization: Jews for Melkor
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:40:37 GMT

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Q. What did the tzadik say when a camel sat on him?

A. "Ashirah laShem ki gamal alai."
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"We all have faults, and mine is being wicked."
                --- The Duke of Coffin Castle
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:18:07 EST
From: Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews, Cincinatti, and the KKK

In article <emc.724117834@vash>, emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) says:
>
>I was listening to the CBC last night where a Lubavitcher Rabbi
>from Cincinatti was discussing a situation that has developed in
>that city.
>
>It seems that for years, his synagogue has applied to put up a Menorah
>in the central square (Liberty Square?).  At the first application it
>looked like approval was imminent, until it came before  city council.
>It was refused on the basis of separation of Church and State.  When
>this was overturned by a court, they refused on the basis of safety
>concerns.  When they could not uphold that, they claimed the slippery
>slope argument: "If we let you have a Menorah, every group will want
>to have something, including the KKK".
>
>I don't understand how the Menorah was finally approved, but I understand
>that a white cross from the KKK will also go up with it in the same
>square, under the banner "freedom of speech".  It seems that city council
>made it look like there had been three application for crosses from different
>groups for a long time, when in fact there was only ever one group.
>
>The difference is, as the Rabbi pointed out, and as many are aware, that
>there is freedom of speech in America, but yet there is a law against calling
>"Fire!" in a theatre.  This clearly racist group should not be allowed
>to post their symbol of racism (even though the cross may mean something
>completely different to denominational Christians).
>
>Anybody from Cincinatti wish to add details?
>
>--
>Eli Chiprout
>Dept. of Electronics,
>Carleton University, Canada
>emc@doe.carleton.ca

The Lubavitchers have put menorahs and purim shacks (I forget what they're
called, boil me in oil) in front of Old City Hall in Toronto for as long
as I remember without any problem.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: chappell@willy.uchicago.edu (Chappell)
Subject: Re: Holiday wishes for us 
Followup-To:  soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Department of Statistics
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:56:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.170600.27512@cbfsb.cb.att.com> jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (jodi.weber) writes:
>I had a rather interesting experience this morning.  A colleague of mine
>and I were talking about the holidays, and the religious vs. secular
>value placed on each.  He is born-again Xian, so he naturally regards
>Xmas as the most important and wonderful holiday of the year, and I,
>meanwhile, told him how fun but relatively minor Hannukah was.  He stated
>that he knew it seemed to hold more importance because it falls somewhere
>near Xmas, which I confirmed.
>
>     ...   Rest of encounter's description deleted, in which JW is
>  surprised at the colleagues willingness to secularize Christmas ...

Jodi,  this was an interesting post.  It reminded me of a discussion
which started similarly.

I used to visit a cafeteria quite often and got to know the cashier.
She belongs to a fundamentalist church which holds strong beliefs about
quite a number of things like gospel, alcohol, dancing, and praying - I'll 
let you guess the direction of these beliefs in each case.  I admired her
faith and seriousnessnous and especially the fact that (except for,
when describing her church, she mentioned that "White folks like you
are most welcome - we'll treat you like one of the family") she had no
hint of evangelism.

When December came around I wished her a Merry Christmas at which point
she gave me a rare stern look and explained that she didn't believe in turning
a time of prayer into a public party.  She thanked me for my good intentions,
but thought that a deeply significant time of the year was all to
"merry" for her taste.

All the schlock is offensive enough to me, but I think that if I were a
religious Christian like she it would be worse.

"Come on down for our big Pesach sale!  Buy all your seder decorations
 while the kids sit in Moses' lap!" 

Rick.

--------------------------------
Rick Chappell <> Asst. Professor, Depts. of Statistics and Biostatistics
<> University of Wisconsin at Madison <> chappell@stat.wisc.edu
(608) 263-5572 / 262-2733 <> take logs
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish