Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Tuesday, 6 Oct 1992 10:10:42 EST
From: <JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Thistles
Distribution: usa
 <1992Oct5.143434.23677@cbfsb.cb.att.com> <BvnMvF.DxM@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
 <1992Oct5.204929.28395@infonode.ingr.com>

In article <1992Oct5.204929.28395@infonode.ingr.com>, knightf@infonode.ingr.com


prelude deleted....
>>>>I don't weed spray ANYTHING around my horses.  I used a weed whacker


>instead
>>>>
>>>>Sue
>>>
>>>
>>>I believe you should have used IYO (in YOUR opinion).
>>>
>>>Susan
>>
>>Susan, I think if we took a poll here, you'd find that you are _far_
>>outnumbered in your "opinion."  Apparently it hasn't sunk into you yet, but
>>if you need to keep your horses off the field for a week after using a
>>chemical, there's a problem.  When you have neighbors, well water, livestock,
>>etc. it's simply not worth the risk.
>>
>>It's so inanely silly to go over an entire field spraying herbicide when all
>>you have to do is go over the entire field mowing.  Think about it.  You
>>obviously haven't yet.
>>
>>       Darrin
>>--
>>
>I think (IMHO) the only thing Susan was asking for here was that her
>post be treated with some reasonable respect.  As we know, lots of
>herbicides are used, and some are more dangerous than others.  Lots
>of farmers would disagree (IMHO) that they should never be used,
>however, since they tend to be quite useful to put food on our table.
>
>Frank
>
I have to agree with Frank. While there are trade offs to be made with using
chemicals in farming, I am not convinced "all chemicals are bad."  The point
is that there are _lots_ of different herbicides, with a myriad of effects.
For example, my understanding of Roundup is that it kills _everything_ (plant
wise) it TOUCHES... it is quickly bound in the soil and doesn't translocate eas
ily to other plants, groundwater, etc.  The fact that you have to keep the
horses of the property until the herbicide dissapates makes sense, after all
almost anything in a high enough concentration or in excess amounts is harmful
(and that includes water).

I can think of a few good examples where herbicide (round up) was an acceptable
 alternative.  Between the ages of 10 and 14 I spent my summers walking beans
(pulling up weeds in soybean fields by hand).  That was for the first three
summers.  It often took over a month for a crew of 6 to 10 kids and two of the
landowners to do all the fields.  The last year I did it I rode on the front of
 a tractor bar with three other people and squirted round up on the individual
weeds. This only took us a week.  Yes, you have to factor in the cost of fuel,
tractor use, and chemicals.  But, it is ofset by labor.  Also the two land owne
rs had three weeks to do other chores.  (I get the feeling from some of the pos
ters on this net that if possible you should do it by hand.  This is very labor
 intensive and I will continue to use the short cuts when possible... but that
is another post).

The second occasion was when I was assisting the Nature Conservancy in prairie
restoration.  The typical way of removing trees, weeds, etc. from grasslands is
to perform controlled burns.  However, one weed - poison ivy - is real nasty to
 burn (the oils go in the smoke - so you get it IN your lungs, which is potenti
ally deadly).  Using round up to kill the weeds made a hell of alot more sense.

And finally, as for pure organic farming, I am not convinced that just because
one doesn't use chemicals the food is inherently better.  Yes I am quite aware
of the dangers of EXCESS chemicals (blue baby syndrom from exces nitrate, probl
ems with atrazine in ground water) - I grew up in Iowa and these issues were
dear to my heart.  However, under carefully monitored conditions the use of
herbicides can be used (IMHO).

Just a my 2 cents worth.
Jeff
JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET

Houghton, MI   No snow report, yet.  (0 inches, 200 to go).