HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Multiple currencies
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 01:12:00 GMT
 <JAMIE.92Dec11192838@kauri.vuw.ac.nz><1992Dec12.135319.19473@netcom.com><Dec12.175542.15258@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization

In article <Dec12.175542.15258@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
ludwigj@CS.ColoState.EDU (Vilkata (Joe Ludwig)) writes:

     When a player has a short sword, leather armor and no shield,
   they are going to spend that 100 gold in their hand on better
   equipment.  Getting players to spend their money only becomes a
   problem when they can't buy the things they want, or when there is
   simply nothing that they want.

As well as the fact that money should not be as common as it is on all
MUDs I've seen. Of course, it depends on the setting, but in all cases
the more money there is around, the less value it has. 

   >Most all mud economies inflate to the point of silliness quickly,
   >becoming a dictatorial you-can-only-set-the-item-value-so-high kludge.
     Can you say: Monty Hall?

Yes. :-)

     Player donations should improve NPC reactions to that player, but
   I can't think of any other benefits they would get.  Training costs money.
   Resurrection costs money.  I don't agree that gaining levels should cost for
   the same reason that I don't believe that levels should exist :)

Training costs money if the player training wants to charge. Let's not
make unwarranted assumptions here. :-) The same goes for resurrection.
As for levels, I agree entirely.

Trade is most certainly an attractice proposition; it's also not a
get-rich-quick scheme. The more people trading, the quicker resources
run out, and then people start going to the wall. And of course, it
takes money to make money - just paying people to get stuff out of the
mine could be expensive, and well beyond a norml person's means.

Jamie
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: brumleve@gauss (Dan Brumleve)
Subject: Re: Character names and memory
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:50:20 GMT

ee89psw@brunel.ac.uk (Paul S Wain) writes:

>In principle it is a good idea, BUT it has far too many associated problems. You
>are unlikely to get "newbies" at any site like that, and yes the success of a
>mu* does I feel depend on newbies and how readily they are accepted. There is
>also too much of an opertunity to spoof...

Armageddon was averaging around 20 players (playtesters) before I shut 'er
down for Christmas break for some rehauling.  It has a system similar to
that described by the original poster.

-Dan
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: wow001@acad.drake.edu
Subject: Detailed DIKU mobs
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:48:20 GMT

I have been codeing my mobs in DIKU as simple monsters because as of yet
I haven't seen any documentation on Detailed mobs.  If you have or know of
a site I can get some docs from please mail me.  I don't get to the news
that much and could use the docs as soon as possible.  

Thanks

	"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
                                     -Albert Einstein

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: danic@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Steve)
Subject: Re: Skills based systems abuse
Followup-To: danic@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca
Summary: Base skill levels should be high enough to encourage adventuring.
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:55:53 GMT

BASE SKILL LEVELS SHOULD BE HIGH ENOUGH TO ENCOURAGE ADVENTURING.

To encourage adventuring to improve skills instead of practising alone,
the base skill levels should be high enough that they have a chance of
working.  Once a character learns a skill, she should feel confident 
enough in it to _try_ casting spells in combat or _try_ picking someone's
pocket.

I tried dartmud (fermat.dartmouth.edu 2525) and the skills there need to be
practiced for entire days before you can even consider trying them in a
real situation.  Instead, players sit in bars and practice skills on
themselves.  Maybe if the base skill levels started higher, players
wouldn't feel the need to sit around practising.

...Steve

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Subject: Re: Character Names and Memory
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:49:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.151559.2817@cnsvax.uwec.edu>
bakerje@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

[Slight snip.]

   you do not see there name, but you see something like HUMAN1, ELF3, etc...
   You can only get their name if they INTRODUCE themselves... then you see
   GEORGE, BOB, FRED, ect...

There are two things I don't like about this system. Firstly, it's the
Human1, Elf1 bit. I would rather have a short (maybe one line maximum)
description for each player which would appear in place of a name, if
you didn't have one assigned for them. Secondly, the introduce
function gives the real name - I argue that it should be possible to
have as many names as you like - you could introduce yourself as
George one day, Bob the next, Fred the next, etc. And even this could
have no effect, if every player you meet assigns their version of your
name as Terry.

The beauty of allowing players to assign names to dbrefs is that it
introduces a little uncertainty into the game. Imagine one character
who is known by 10 people as George, and by another ten people as Bob.
When one of the first ten talks to one of the second ten about George,
the second person would not know who he was simply by the name.

The same could be done with objects - what one person sees as a wand,
another might see as a toothpick, or whatever. 

   As for the WHO or @who list, on CyberWorld MUD, you only get a
   list of people YOU know (ie have been in contact with during that
   playing session) and Administration.

I suppose this is a good compromise; I prefer not having WHO at all though.

	   Also... in response to the first reply about MU**s being social as
   well as roleplaying... I think that MU**s specify what nature they are quite
   obviously.  If you are using a MUD, it is probably for RP. If you are using
   a MUSE/MUSH... then it may be RP or just social, but there is usually a 
   description of the MUSE's theme right at the beginning.

Hrm, role-playing is not a word that springs readily to my mind in
connection with MUDs. Indeed, for me, it's almost the antithesis. That
may be, of course, differences in definition. My definition of
role-playing is, quite simple, playing a role (other than your real
self). I see precious little of that going on in any MUD I've visited,
and would say that it's almost the exclusive domain of
MUCKs/MUSHs/MOOs/whatever, and not in all of those cases either.

Role-playing for me does not mean combat/quests/adventure/
let's-see-how-fast-I-can-make-wiz.

Jamie
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.announce
From: dwb@Turing.ORG (Daniel W. Burford)
Subject: DalMOO needs a site!
Followup-To: poster
Originator: scott@glia
Keywords: desperation
X-Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1992 18:11:54 GMT
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:51:08 GMT

DalMOO, a project which has been ongoing for nearly a year now at
ahab.eecs.nwu.edu 17971, now finds itself without a site.  We desperately
need one to continue our development; we were nearly to the point of going
full public (were in betatesting at the time of shutdown).  Our database
is at about 15 megs and is not expected to grow much larger - I realize this
is quite large, but DalMOO was/is quite possibly a revolutionary new type of
MUD, with a very detailled and workable skill and RPG system, extensive
help documentation, intelligent NPCs, and much more.

If you have a site that could support DalMOO, please email me at dwb@turing.org
for more information about it.  Thanks in advance!

Gilmore



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Burford    | Gilmore   |  "The only difference between me and a madman,
dwb@turing.org |  @ DalMOO |     is that I am not mad."  -  Salvador Dali
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
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Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Multiple currencies
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:54:17 GMT
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization

In article <baljeual.724102873@uther> baljeual@uther.calvin.edu (Alan
Baljeu) writes:

   If money had restricted use, you would get a very interesting
   barter system. Picture this: A certain player has gained quite a
   proficiency in obtaining Magical Rubber Armor.  This armor is of
   high demand, so he decides to go into business.  In a barter
   system, he won't take just anything as payment, but instead will
   tell people who want his prize to go find him the Quartz Stone of
   Seeing Where People Are, or whatever he wills.  Thus, they go off
   on a quest (which you never even coded!) and that certain player
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Heed these words!

   uses his skill in finding Magical Rubber Armor to become very
   powerful in the community, through his bartering business. This
   seems to me to add a dimension to the game.

Thank you for that example; it demonstrates exactly one of the points
I've been trying to make - it's not necessary to code in everything in
a MU*; the players are certainly able to create their own things to
do, whether it be quests or guilds. As Alan says, a barter system
could add a whole new dimension to the game, whilst requiring no extra
coding (and could even result in the removal of most of the shops).

And even if shops did remain, with currency being in widespread use,
that is no reason for them to be coded as they are now. What about the
travelling salesman, who buys/collects goods from one area to sell off
in another where it is a rare commodity? A player could easily fill
this role, giving her money, adventure, and an excuse to travel and
meet people.

The idea of quests being more personalised is an important one - I
have never liked doing a quest that not only everyone has done, but
also holds no meaning to my character. I'd rather do "quests" which
actually achieved something I wanted done, as in the example above.
This doesn't require extra coding, it actually requires that some
artificial restraints caused by coding be removed.

Jamie



Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: baljeual@uther.calvin.edu (Alan Baljeu)
Subject: Re: Skills based systems abuse
Organization: Calvin College
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:26:56 GMT

drevreck@colargol.edb.tih.no (Lars Syrstad) writes:

[Wonderful stuff deleted]

>And when a character tries to climb that mountain, it would
>perform better the less fatigued it is. The same would apply
>to combat - one would not lower one's opponent's hitpoints, but
>make it more physically fatigued. The more fatigued, the greater 
>the chance of becoming fatally wounded etc etc.

But in combat, there is something more than fatigue involved, there is 
injury.  This doesn't necessarily have to be handled by the hit point system,
but fatigue just doesn't describe the effects of getting hit on the head
by a mace.  Without some kind of damage system, combat might just as well
be a break-dancing competition:  First one to have a heart attack loses!!

>The character's stats (talent) and education might modify how 
>much any given skill would increase fatigue. A powerful barbarian 
>might climb mountains all day long with only minor effects, but 
>might be exhausted after half an hour of reading, while a 
>under-nourished scholar would experience the opposite.

Reading decreases a scholar's mental fatigue? Ok.

>I think this would be reasonably realistic. In Real Life (tm) one
>is not 'almost out of spellpoints' or 'a bit low on hitpoints'.
>One is TIRED! And being physically tired affects all physical actions.
>Not like the standard mud (well, lp at least :-)) of today, when
>the fact that a character's almost dead doesn't hinder it from 
>running through a couple of deserts. And given this system, one 
>might also lower ones mental fatigue by taking a quick refreshing 
>walk through the forest. Actions would affect each other - and it 
>might also be quite easy to do it, once the system as such is setup. 
>(To set it up and balance it etc might be a chore though...)

The closer your system is to the way real things work, the easier
it will be to balance. (I think, never actually built a system.)

>I would be interested in hearing if anyone have tried to implement
>anything like this, and if so, was it a roaring success? ;-)
>All feedback is welcome. I might also try to get this working myself,
>in the NEW mud - if my compatriot approves... (*wave Tenghil*, nice
>concept, eh? Say yes! *bounce* :-))

Alan
			&-}
--
	Alan Baljeu
From: lesher@denebola.cs.bucknell.edu (T. Lesher)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Memory-Usage Question
Date: 15 Dec 1992 23:01:10 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA
NNTP-Posting-Host: denebola.cs.bucknell.edu

In article <42585@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:
>>>... when I boot it on a Sun, ...
>>>... But when I boot it on a Sparc, ...
>
>Odd, considering that a Sparc is a Sun.

Be nice.  What the poster meant was comparing a CISC machine (maybe a
Sun 3) to a RISC machine, a Sparc.



--
Tim Lesher <lesher@bucknell.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: hhelanto@vipunen.hut.fi (Henri R Helanto)
Subject: Re: Character names and memory
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 19 Dec 92 04:56:41 GMT

In <BzB5vn.44K@brunel.ac.uk> ee89psw@brunel.ac.uk (Paul S Wain) writes:

>My first though on this was, hey yeah, great idea, but then I thought, ok
>so I connect to say a MU* and I type:

>WHO

>What response would I get? 0 players? "No-one you know"? A list of 28 entries
>all reading 'a player'? Also what when someone walks into a room? "Someone has
>arrived"

>In principle it is a good idea, BUT it has far too many associated problems. You
>are unlikely to get "newbies" at any site like that, and yes the success of a
>mu* does I feel depend on newbies and how readily they are accepted. There is
>also too much of an opertunity to spoof...

>Ohwell, as they asay on brunel.general (my local site news group of course), 
>either 'just adding my 100,000 liras worth' or my '0.1 pf worth'


	...Not to mention how hard it would be to catch a THIEF!

	Someone tried to steal you!
	>look
	Thief68 is standing here.
	Thief7 is standing here.
	Mage20 is standing here.
	Thief53 is standing here.
	>curse
	...
	>shout Thief 68, 7 or 20 stole me something!!
	...

	RIDICULOUS!! Same thing about pk'ing and things like that.
	Whoever got this idea - do you know what names are for ?-) 

-Henri
-- 
Henri Helanto - SysOp
hhelanto@vipunen.hut.fi m40176m@puukko.hut.fi
Call MyBBS (+358-0-485067/485068/485968/485918/488139, 24h) !
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: reality vs. speed
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 01:01:48 GMT
 nz> <baljeual.724102873@uther><1gc2i7INNg0v@coral.bucknell.edu>
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization

In article <1gc2i7INNg0v@coral.bucknell.edu>
skelly@capella.cs.bucknell.edu (sean kelly `94) writes:

[Combat mechanic deleted.]

   I want to use endurance (constitution & strength with some modifier)
   as a target for these bruises, so using a weapon would also wear
   someone out to some degree (it's easier to get your ass kicked 
   if your tired).  What I would like to know is if you think adding 
   the 'bruise' option will affect speed significantly.  I was considering an 
   alternate system that just left that out, if so.

The way that I am thinking of doing this is by simply having wounds
cause penalties to skill use (which includes combat). I will also use
different mechanics, but that's not surprising. :-)

   On a unrelated note, what does everyone think about 'unnecessary
   stats' like charisma.  Although it helps in dealing w/NPC's, I
   think it would be better left out, and let player interaction
   handle the situation (player shopkeepers).  Following, in an ideal
   MU*, real players would constitute the majority of the population,
   with NPC's just added to fill very boring positions that have
   little interaction (like a farmer in most scenarios ) or to 'fill
   out' the game to make it seem more real.

I agree entirely. The stats that I am thinking of having are strength,
agility, size and health. Nothing which is not physical in nature is
not included, since that is entirely up to the player. In fact, this
holds true for all aspects of the game - I want to code only those
parts which are physically related (and skills...), since I figure
that all the rest can safely be left up to the people involved.

As for charisma, I think it's a sin to have interaction based on a
single number. Someone might be charismatic and beautiful, and yet
still be loathed by one particular character, for reasons that could
not realistically be put in to code form.

Jamie
From: starride@silver.ksu.ksu.edu (David Chase)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Long time players??
Date: 14 Dec 1992 00:47:49 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: silver.ksu.ksu.edu
Summary: Looking for old players from long ago.

	Hello world.  When I use to play I was  Sador or Saydor.
      			Depends on which one I was on.

	What I am looking for is those people I use to play with on
fenris, unicorn, and most of all avalon.

		Some of the people I am looking for are:

	Longshot, Beak, She, Galdilora(sorry about the spelling)
	Conan, and any others who remember me.    


	If any one knows what happen to these people or if you are 
reading this  please elm me. I would like to hear from you. 


PS  Lionheart if you want to write to me and tell to F__K OFF again
    that would be alright with me too.
From: rson@rhi.hi.is (Mimir Reynisson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Running LPMUD on A/UX....
Keywords: groan groan groan
Date: 17 Dec 92 09:52:43 GMT

Yup. But I would recommend that you used GCC to compile it.
The cc supplied with A/UX 2.0 and 3.0 is the worst compiler I've
ever seen, sort of makes you want to use basic interpreters instead.

Anyway, I've run both a 2.4.5 lpmud and 3.0.something mud on an A/UX.
From: pmgt1841@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Memory-Usage Question
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:56:23 -0600
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

I run a DikuMUD.  One thing I noticed is than when I boot it on a
Sun, it runs at a consistant 8 megs of mem;  But when I boot it on a
Sparc, it starts at around 13 megs, and while the MUD is up fer a while,
it steadily decreases to around 3 megs.  

Any idea why?

Thanks,

Lorin
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Character Names and Memory
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:32:03 GMT
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization

In article <1gmdfgINNdb0@coral.bucknell.edu>
lesher@spica.cs.bucknell.edu (T. Lesher) writes:

   >I suppose this is a good compromise; I prefer not having WHO at all though.

   On MUSHes, where almost all your interaction is with player characters
   and not NPCs, if you log in and no one else is on, it's difficult to
   plan TinyPlots, etc.  If I log on and no one else is on (for God knows
   what reason), I don't want to have to walk around for an hour Realtime
   to have to find this out!  There are some things that you simply can't
   simulate in a virtual environment; one is the fact that people exist
   24/7 in real life, and not even close to that in VR.  Well, most of
   them... :)

Surely it's possible, even if no one else is on, to do things which
would put in motion some plan? One person can alter the world and
start plots (this depends I suppose on how plots work; in the game I
envision, it would simply be players interacting without any code
whatsoever, not even @fo) which could then be picked up later when
others log in. In fact, being completely alone would sometimes be an
advantage, if you wanted to do something in secret, or which was some
sort of "criminal" activity.

   >Hrm, role-playing is not a word that springs readily to my mind in
   >connection with MUDs. Indeed, for me, it's almost the antithesis. That
   >may be, of course, differences in definition. My definition of
   >role-playing is, quite simple, playing a role (other than your real
   >self). I see precious little of that going on in any MUD I've visited,

   I was going to say this as well, but that's the kind of thing that
   gets LP vs MUSH, Diku vs MUSE, "My Mu* is better than your Mu* because
   blah blah blah" flamewars started.  :)

True. I do not advocate roleplaying as the One True Way for everybody,
nor do I think that it is not possible to be done on MUDs. 

Jamie
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: gohn@ecf.toronto.edu (GOHN IVAN LLOYD)
Subject: Kludge World
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 17:06:08 GMT

Here is a brief description of Kludge World
(by no means is this a totally accurate description,
all characteristics mentioned here are always subject to
change and revision)

Currently, as of Dec. 12,1992 there are four classes of
adventurer: Mage, Thief, Warrior and Cleric.  This forms a solid and
simple basis for grouping and divison of labour within the group.  There
is rumour that four other classes may be including within the ranks:
Ranger, Warlock, Monk and Paladin.

The MUD contains about 20K rooms and is currently expanding.  Located
in Atlanta and having finished playtesting only a few weeks ago, this
is one of the youngest muds I have seen.  Items

Just give it a whirl and tell me what you think about it. :)
The address is telnet st6000.sct.edu 4374

Take Care and Happy Holidays
Midnight the Shadow Warrior