HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shoppa@erin.caltech.edu (TIM SHOPPA)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Early Programable calculators.
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:11:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug12.170023.7223@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, aduell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Tony Duell) writes...
> 
>While agreeing that the HP9100 is an early programmable machine, and worth
>preserving (I want one!!!!), is it really the second progarammable ever
>produced.  The Casio AL1000 certainly predated it , and I think the AL2000
>did also (1968???) although the latter used integrated circuits.
>-tony 'PDP11 Hacker' Duell
>ard@siva.bris.ac.uk
> 
Hmm, I have a Litton unit of some sort that I think is older than my
HP9100.  It has a box about two feet high by two feet deep by about six
inches wide that has 4 or 5 circuit boards packed full of discrete transistors.
The box is connected by a very thick cable to the keyboard/printer unit.
The built in functions are + - * and /, with, I believe, a SQRT too.  It
is programmable, having I think 4 memories and 30 odd steps.  It's
been a while since I've been back at my parent's home to play with it, so 
I'm a little fuzzy on the details.  Sometimes the unit gets kind of flaky,
but rattling the box with the PC boards usually gets it going again!

				Tim (Shoppa@erin.caltech.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: keithd@bigguy.timeplex.com (Keith Dickinson)
Subject: Re: Computers killing people?  (WAS Re: 9 track data storage???)
Organization: Ascom Timeplex Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 10:57:29 GMT

In article <1400@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> oliver@cs.uwindsor.ca (Timothy Oliver) writes:
>>I remember hearing a rumor that printers sent to Iraq were programmed to
>>upload (something) into radar installations to give erroneous data.
>>
>>First, is it possible?  Second, anyone else heard such a thing?
>
>No, it is NOT possible.  There are not data lines that go FROM the
>printer TO the computer. The only line that go to the computer 
>are status lines (in a PARELLEL port).

Actualy, on the PC the 8-bit data lines are BI-DIRECTIONAL, indicating that
if the PC would read the data lines, then you could indeed back-feed data.
There are some PostScript printers that use this function.

>With a SERIAL port, maybe. But very unlikely. Few printers have
>the transmit data line hooked up. But any signal that comes in though
>the serial port MUST be read by a programme and any programme that
>writes to a serial printer will reject anything other than the paper out
>signal, pinter not ready signal, etc.

Actualy most Serial printer _do_ have it hooked up.  That's how they use
the Xon/Xoff protocol for handshaking with Unix machines that don't understand
EIA lead functions.

Also, again, some PostScript printers communicate in both directions.

L8r G8r
 Keith
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: warren@cs.stanford.edu (Mark A. Warren)
Subject: Re: Bogosort
Organization: Stanford, CS Dept.
	<fstuart.920813191644@lab16.eng.auburn.edu>
	<1992Aug14.032508.1076@csi.uottawa.ca> <phillips.713952175@s11>
Date: 16 Aug 92 10:49:05


In article <phillips.713952175@s11> phillips@uwa.oz.au (Christopher Phillips) writes:

   >(1) Strassen (sp?) transformations to speed up matrix multiplication from
   >O(n^3) to O(n^2.37...) (2.37 might be some slightly different number!)

   Is it at all possilbe to give even the slightest inkling of how it works in
   under 20 pages?  I've heard of them, but have no idea how they could possibly
   have such a low order.

Strassens algorithm is describe in full detail in
_Introduction_to_Algorithms_ by Cormen, Leiserson, and Rivest, pub
McGraw Hill, ISBN 0-07-13143-0. This is one of the best books on
algorithms in print, if you don't have a copy, you should get one.
The description takes only six pages (p 739-744). I have no intention
of typing in those six pages though.  But the basic idea is matrix
mutliply is usually:

r s = a b  e g
t u   c d  f h

where
r = ae + bf
s = ag + bh
t = ce + df
u = cg + dh

Which is 8 multiplies and 4 adds
T(n) = 8T(n/2) + O(n^2)
T(n) = O(n^3)

Strassen's algorithm makes use of the fact that these sums include
redundant information. So now

s = P1 + P2
t = P3 + P4
r = P5 + P4 - P2 + P6
u = P5 + P1 - P3 - P7

P1 = a(g-h)
P2 = h(a+b)
P3 = e(c+d)
P4 = d(f-e)
P5 = (a+d)(e+h)
P6 = (b-d)(f+h)
P7 = (a-c)(e+g)

This takes 7 multiplies and 18 adds.
T(n) = 7T(n/2) + O(n^2)
T(n) = O(n^(lg 7))   where lg == log base 2
T(n) = O(n^2.81)

This is good, but there are even better algorithms out there.

Mark

--
Mark W.
mark.warren@cs.stanford.edu
H: (415) 497-6816
W: (415) 723-2064
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.3d
From: azog@world.std.com (Azog Thoth)
Subject: Re: 'Movement' on light and dark screen background.
Organization: The World @ Software Tool & Die
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 21:55:05 GMT

ahm@spatula.rent.com (Andreas Meyer) writes:

>sauron@nano.engr.mun.ca (Patrick Ryan) writes:
>> hsu@pix.com (Dagwood Splits the Atom) writes:
>> 
>> >Now, if only they'd do a commercial with SIRDS.  Fat chance.
>> 
>>  Sorry if this is a FAQ, but what's SIRDS?

>"It's a candy mint... it's a breath mint..." :-)

No wait, its a floor polish

-- 
Billy D'augustine
azog@world.std.com

"Obliteration of mankind. Under a pale grey sky. We shall arise!"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: hacking too long?
Organization: The Cat Factory
Distribution: alt
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:25:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.123439.48@its.bt.co.uk> tjo@its.bt.co.uk (Tim Oldham) writes:

}Aren't you taught 24-hour time at school in the USA? 

I wasn't.  I don't know what they teach these days, if anything.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: kjell@elixir.e.kth.se (Kjell Rilbe)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Date: 17 Aug 92 07:21:02 GMT
Organization: Dept. of EE, Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

In article <IISAKKIL.92Aug14192502@vipunen.hut.fi> iisakkil@vipunen.hut.fi (Mika Iisakkila) writes:
>kjell@elixir.e.kth.se (Kjell Rilbe) writes:
>
>>LED to indicate power is on. When he moved the walkman, this little LED
>>seemed to kind of float around, like it was not attached at all to the
>>walkman!!!!!
>
>I suppose that because the flashes from the fireworks are very short,
>your eyes thought that the walkman was immobile (persistence of
>vision). Then because the LED is self-illuminating, it seems to move
>(like it does), but the walkman appears to stay in place until the
>next flash.
>
>[Other interesting phenomenons deleted]

No, no, no, no, no, no!
The fireworks hadn't started yet. We were *waiting* for the fireworks.
And the walkman did not appear to stay in place! We could all see both
the LED and the walkman move around, only the LED wasn't moving the same way
the walkman was.....

Please, TRY THIS YOURSELVES! I can understand that it seems unbeleivable,
but if you just switch off all lights, and try this, you will see what I'm
talking about! (I hope. If not, I'm going crazy. Along with three of my
friends.....)

/Kjell Rilbe
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: cornet@duteca3.et.tudelft.nl (Jan-Pieter Cornet)
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:05:22 GMT

kjell@elixir.e.kth.se (Kjell Rilbe) writes:
>LED to indicate power is on. When he moved the walkman, this little LED
>seemed to kind of float around, like it was not attached at all to the
>walkman!!!!!
>
>Please, TRY THIS YOURSELVES! I can understand that it seems unbeleivable,
>but if you just switch off all lights, and try this, you will see what I'm
>talking about! (I hope. If not, I'm going crazy. Along with three of my
>friends.....)

I tried it! It works! When you wave the walkman back and forth, you can
clearly (as far as that goes in the dim light) see the LED move _ahead_
of the walkman, upto several inches!! I must say that all the guests
were a bit surprized when I suddenly came down with a walkman and then
started to turn off all the lights, but then we all (6 of us) were amazed
by this phenomenon.

This really is a nice "by-the-campfire" trick to show on late summer nights
when the campfire is almost over.

Neat.


-- 
-- Jan-Pieter
cornet@duteca.et.tudelft.nl
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12901 comp.unix.misc:3337
From: kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Computers killing people?  (WAS Re: 9 track data storage???)
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:53:10 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

In article <1976@sdrc.COM> scjones@thor.sdrc.com (Larry Jones) writes:
>
>No, no, no, no, NO!  For the gazillionth time, the data lines on the
>genuine IBM PC Printer Adapter are UNIDIRECTIONAL!  Yes, the PIO chip
>is perfectly capable of bidirectional operation, but the direction lead
>is hardwired for output only. .......
>Just another misfeature from your friends in Boca Raton.

Although even some IBM Internal Use Only programs such as JFAComm (allows
drive, printer, etc. sharing between PCs) contain instructions on the 
few wires that need to be changed to make the genuine IBM PC Printer Adapter
bi-directional!

Several years ago when I was at IBM, I happily hacked up one of our XT's
printer adapters so I could transfer files to it from a PC across the
room.  JFAComm is a really slick program... it's too bad that some of the
best programs IBM makes stay inside IBM!

						---Joel Kolstad
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Subject: Re: Phone `boxes' (was Re: Hacker Test)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:25:27 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Aug10.074526.13117@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>In article <19607@plains.NoDak.edu> person@plains.NoDak.edu (Brett G Person ) writes:
>>In article <15t8blINNlp2@agate.berkeley.edu> rice@enterprise.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel S. Rice) writes:
>>>
>>>	Oops, upon reflection I think the box I wrote about is in fact
>>>a silver box.  I have no idea what a blue box is.  Sorry!
>>
>>A blue box used to enable you to make long-distance calls for free. it
>>did this by tricking the PhoneCo's equipment into thinking that you
>>were a PhoneCo employee  running a test on a line or somesuch. I think
>>it worked by generating the by-pass tones that mere mortal phones
>>aren't supposed to be capable of producing. Thje people over in
>>comp.dcom.telecom can tell you more than you ever eanted to know about
>>blue boxes.  They probably won't, however, tell you how to build one.
>>;_) 

A 2600Hz tone generator of any sort should do it, if I recall my lore properly.
Not very hard to cook up.  Captain Crunch whistles with the hole taped shut
were good for this once, which is where Mr. Draper got his nickname, I think.

>
>As I indicated earlier, I can't post information on this subject, but I will
>give out a smattering here: this is again specifically wrong.  The device
>mentioned is used to trick equipment into being in a normal state, but not
>the one it was in before you intervened.  The rest of the post indicates the

Is a blue box not a simple 2600Hz tone generator?  It oughtn't work anymore,
in any case, with in-band signalling gone, no?


-- 
Thor Lancelot Simon	 tls@panix.COM
  "Oh, you have wounded me!  I have very few prejudices, actually.  The
biggest problem is that I am intolerant of fools.  That is why I have
such a low tolerance level for Libertarians."  -- Jim McMaster
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12478 comp.unix.misc:3215
From: dhesi@cirrus.com (Rahul Dhesi)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Keywords: Pascal
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:29:34 GMT
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

You are ALL wrong.  The right way to write code is to do it all in a
high-level lanauge, then recode the speed-critical parts in assembly
language.  Anybody who exclusively uses assembly language, or exclusively
uses a high-level language, belongs on Usenet.
-- 
Rahul Dhesi <dhesi@cirrus.com>
also: dhesi@rahul.net
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: merlyn@digibd.com (Merlyn LeRoy)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: DigiBoard Incorporated, Eden Prairie, MN
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:05:08 GMT

ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!) writes:
>In article <1992Aug15.215427.5726@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM>, rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Robert Bernecky) writes:
>> a. Non-code can't have any bugs in it.

>I'll disagree with this one. When's the last time you had to fix a bug by
>_removing_ code. Obviously, most bugs are in the code that isn't there...

I have fixed bugs by only removing code; found one in rogue once -- the
potion of object detection would show objects on the ground and objects
carried by monsters, but failed to show anything if only monsters had
objects.  The routine had a quick-fail test for an empty list of objects
on the ground (in which case it showed nothing); removing this test
fixed it, as the objects-on-ground loop would exit immediately when given
an empty list and go on to the objects-held-by-monsters loop, instead of
skipping both loops.  I'd guess that originally monsters couldn't carry
objects, so the quick-fail test used to be valid.

---
Merlyn LeRoy
From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Early Programable calculators.
Date: 14 Aug 1992 18:14:05 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu


Hey, anybody remember the Mathatron?  It was as big as a desk, used a
Model 33 Teletype for I/O, but was basically a programmable calculator.
-- 
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
haynes@cats.bitnet

"Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an Art."
        Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
From: cflatter@nrao.edu (Chris Flatters)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long.
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:44:30 GMT
Reply-To: cflatter@nrao.edu
Organization: NRAO

In article Dpt@world.std.com, bmarcum@world.std.com (Bill Marcum) writes:
>Speaking of screen color, I've noticed somthing interesting on a computer
>where I work.  The screen display has alternating lines of red and light-blue
>text on a dark-blue background.  I wear very thick glasses, and as I move my
>head, the red letters seem to move around while the light blue letters stand
>still.

This seems to be a demonstration that red and blue light are focussed at
different depths by a lens.  This applies to the lens in the human eye as
well as Bill's glasses: hence the design principle against using bright
primary colours in near proximity on a computer display (the eye has to
continually shift focus between the two colours which can lead to eyestrain
after prolonged use).

	Chris Flatters
	cflatter@nrao.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: nolan@twg.com (Mel Brooks Fan)
Subject: Re: Re^2: "We don't need no steenking badges..."
Reply-To: nolan@twg.com
Organization: Rock Ridge General Store
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:54:44 GMT


In article <4025@novavax.UUCP>, vest@novavax.UUCP (Steven Vest) writes:
[stuff]
|>In the interest of making this seem more like a cascade than it does already 
|>I feel compelled to point out that, while this quote is indeed credited to
|>Treasure of the Sierra Madre.  The Mexicans in the movie never really utter
|>this line.   What they actually say is something akin to "Badges!?  We aint
|>got no stinking Badges!  We don't need any."  This is like the other more 

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT! Fork over a few bux and rent the film. take a GOOD
peek at that scene and come back with an update.

|>thanks much!  Sorry for the inconvenience and waste of bandwidth!

Sheeesh! The waste was the inaccurate info.

--
Nolan "Peeved at wannabe movie critics" Hinshaw
Internet: nolan@twg.com			Dingalingnet: (415)962-7197	
"If you don't know how to do something, you don't know how to do it
 with a computer." David Wittenberg, in Risks Digest 13.70
"Boy, was I in for a dose of reality." Randall K. Abler
"... necrophilia doesn't really hurt anybody."  Rick Gordon
"Well, first of all, your stance is too wide"
From: scjones@thor.sdrc.com (Larry Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: ancient typographical errors
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:22:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.190618.2610@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>,
spc@pineal.sci.fau.edu (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) writes
[about misspelled words in /usr/dict/words]:
>   I found it on our SGI system (IRIX 4.0.1).  Hmmm, did anyone ever
> check the list to see if all the words are correct?

Well, I just ran it through spell and it says everything is OK.  ;-)
----
Larry Jones, SDRC, 2000 Eastman Dr., Milford, OH  45150-2789  513-576-2070
Domain: lawrence.jones@sdrc.com               IBMMAIL: USSDR7DR at IBMMAIL
They can make me do it, but they can't make me do it with dignity. -- Calvin
From: tkogoma@triton.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: TV SHOW Secret Service (NBC)
Date: 17 Aug 92 02:39:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <msf.714016755@skaro> msf@skaro.as.arizona.edu (Michael Fulbright) writes:
>NBC has a new show called 'Secret Service'.Its about cases the
>organization has dealt with. One tonight was about a disgruntled
>employee at a power company named Benard Posten (spelling uncertain).
>This guy, which they portayed as your stereotypical computer nerd, was
>fired from the power company on a charge of sexual harassment.
>According to this show, he installed a 'logic bomb' in the printers at
>the poer company which infected the computer(s) controlling power
>distribution. His goal was to shut all power off to the city using his
>virus.  Of course the good guys stopped him, but some of the stuff
>they showed wass so unbelievable it made me start to wonder if they'd
>made the whole thing up. They never said what city it occured at, but
>it supposedly occurred in 1986. I'd really be interested if anyone has
>information on this.

I'm waiting for them to do a show on the raid on Steve Jackson Games.
Any bets as to how long? ;-) ;-)

>msf@skaro.as.arizona.edu


-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  tkogoma@triton.unm.edu
  I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                           what I have now...
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: sasbmt@jjoyce.unx.sas.com (Bruce Tindall)
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Originator: sasbmt@jjoyce.unx.sas.com
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:11:55 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


>>">You know you've been hacking too long when...
>>- You have multiple keyboards and screens and have one desk chair so you can
>>'swap' your time between the terminals/computers.

This reminded me of my mid-1970s undergrad days:

When Fred Brooks (author of _The Mythical Man-Month_) was chairman of
the Comp. Sci. department at North Carolina, he had several electric
analog clocks, apparently of World War II vintage, mounted on a shelf
behind his desk.  When you went in to see him, he'd pull a switch (that
looked like it might be surplus from Dr. Frankenstein's lab) to shut
off the clock that was labelled "Grading Papers" or "Writing"
or whatever and turn on the one labelled "Advising Students".

Dr. Brooks had been hacking a *long* time :-)

-- 
Bruce Tindall, Core Testing Manager, SAS Institute Inc., Cary NC 27513
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: warren@cs.stanford.edu (Mark A. Warren)
Subject: Re: SAGE
Organization: Stanford, CS Dept.
	<1992Aug13.225433.1408@nas.nasa.gov> <Bt1nJr.4vp@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>
	<16klveINNgj4@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
Date: 16 Aug 92 10:54:22


A couple more notes. According to CLR, the best algorithms for matrix
multiply are O(n^2.376) and Strassen's constant is  big enough that
you need n=45 or so before Strassen's is a win.

Cheers,

Mark
--
Mark W.
mark.warren@cs.stanford.edu
H: (415) 497-6816
W: (415) 723-2064
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Non Unix-OS's
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:00:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

  > .: multi-user hardware? Of course, there are a lot of old systems,
  > .: running old OS's. And there are lots of microcomputer OS's, but let's
  > .: exclude most of them by defining "OS", I mean multi-tasking, multi-user
  > .: OS.

BM> .I know of two:

BM> .1) Alpha Micro's AMOS (feels like TOPS-10 that shrunk in the washer)

BM> .2) DataPoint's RMS/XA (has a TRS-80ish flavor to it, actually...)

Add Convergent Technologies' (now Unisys) CTOS.

 * OLX 2.2 * Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
              
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:06:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.160412.23495@auto-trol.com> davgot@auto-trol.com (David Gottner) writes:
>>
>I was just pointing out that any language can be abused.  For example, Pascal
>has a goto statement, so a person could write a Pascal program with no control
>structure except the goto.
>

This is specifically untrue.  PASCAL implements brain-dead goto both 
syntactically and functionally so much of the code breaks when you attempt
to use goto for any other than panic exits.  (Stack dirt may be left behind, 
etc.)

This is partially because of the hidden agenda of the PASCAL promoters of
the time.  Instead of giving anyone a chance to see if goto is harmful or not,
they implement a poor goto to justify why it is harmful :-(.

cjl
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: kjell@elixir.e.kth.se (Kjell Rilbe)
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Organization: Dept. of EE, Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 07:33:29 GMT

In article <77775@ut-emx.uucp> cblandy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Blandy) writes:
>In article <BswnIE.Dpt@world.std.com> bmarcum@world.std.com (Bill Marcum) writes:
>>Speaking of screen color, I've noticed somthing interesting on a computer
>>where I work.  The screen display has alternating lines of red and light-blue
>>text on a dark-blue background.  I wear very thick glasses, and as I move my
>>head, the red letters seem to move around while the light blue letters stand
>>still.
>>
>>Bill Marcum  bmarcum@world.std.com  b.marcum@genie.geis.com
>
>There is another interesting phenomenon I have noticed with red color 
>persistance.  Look at your favorite LED clock/watch/etc at night and move your
>eyes slowly up-down/back-forth.  The numbers seem to actually move less than
>the clock itself!

Yes! This MUST be the same phenomenon I've been talking about. You know,
the one with floating power-indication LED on a walkman. Does anyone
KNOW what causes this?

/Kjell Rilbe