HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: source "tired, huddled masses.."? ON Liberty.
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:02:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.063129.8338@netcom.com> lion@netcom.com (carl loeber) writes:
> Does anyone know offhand from whence comes the phrase
> on the statue of Liberty?

The article I wrote for the recent Jewish Heritage Month says:

Emma Lazarus:
This poet, who is best known for her poem about America's acceptance of
immigrants, was in fact born in the United States in 1849 to a cultured
family of Sephardic Jews.  Educated in languages and the classics while
still young (and during a time when girls were frequently denied such
education altogether), she published her first book of poems and
translations at the age of 17, and at 21 published another collection
("Admetus and Other Poems") inscribed to Ralph Waldo Emerson.  She
also wrote a novel, "Alide," based on Goethe's autobiography which
won praise from such authors as Ivan Turgenev. Other works include
"The Spagnoleto," "Poems and Ballads of Heinrich Heine" (a
translation of Heine's works), "The Dance to Death" (about the
accusations of well-poisoning brought against the Jews during the Black
Plague), "Songs of a Semite" (dedicated to George Eliot), and "By
the Waters of Babylon."  But her best known work is "The New
Colossus," which is inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles.  From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips.  "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me,
I life my lamp beside the golden door!"

(Note: the "twin cities" mentioned are New York and Brooklyn; the
latter was a separate city until 1898.)

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Re: Native Indians - Where did they start ?+
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 06:34:15 GMT

In article <1993Jan1.125625.3594@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, prs9k@brain.med.virginia.edu (Phil Scarr) writes:
> In article <27539@sybase.sybase.com> venky@sybase.com (Venky) writes:
>>
>>It is known that the first Indian settlers came via Alaska around 500 A.D
> 
> Not quite.  Try somewhere between 25,000BP and 10,000BP.  Where did you
> get 500AD?  There are dated monuments in the Maya lowlands of Guatemala
> which date to 350AD.
> 
>>and proceeded to make Oregon, California and Arizona their habitat. The 
>>Modocs and the Apaches belong to this category, I guess. There were other
>>tribes which came from the south ( Mexico..) and made their homes in New
>>Mexico and sorrounding places. The Pimas and the Pegasos may be in this 
>>category. The time of the southern migration must have been around the 
>>same time as the northern migration.
>>
>>Of interest and not much discussed is their flight ( or their walk ) to 
>>North America. Is it true that they might have started around in Africa
>>and even travelled parts of Asia before landing in N.America.? I am 
>>interested in knowing their origin, the time and the travel.
>>
>>Any info is greatly appreciated.
>>
>>Thanx..!
>>Venky 
> 
> Pick up any intro Archaeology book.  They all tell this story.  In a
> nutshell, during the last major glaciation a bridge between asia and
> north america opened up and asian nomads crossed the bridge and migrated
> south filling north and south america by about 8000BP.  The rest is, as
> they say, history.
> 
> 	-Phil
> -- 
> PHIL SCARR        \      We are Microsoft...     /          (o) 804.243.0229
>  University of    /     OS/2 is irrelevant.      \          (f) 804.243.0290
>  Virginia,        \     UNIX is irrelevant.      /        prs9k@Virginia.EDU
>  Neurosurgery     /     Openness is futile.      \     prs9k@Virginia.BITNET
>  HP-UX is my life!\ Prepare to be assimilated... /   ...uunet!virginia!prs9k
> 
As of the last bet I heard, that the americas have had upwards of three or more
immigrations from asia.. Wit the eskimos/aleuts being the last..

First came over some possibly 35,000 years ago, and the last around 3000 years
ago.
Part of my family history is in two of the three.. 
I live in Nome, Alaska in an area where all came thru..

==
==
Michael Adams alias Ghost Wheel/Morgoth NSMCA@acad3.alaska.edu
From: venky@sybase.com (Venky)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Native Indians - Where did they start ?
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:51:47 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.


It is known that the first Indian settlers came via Alaska around 500 A.D
and proceeded to make Oregon, California and Arizona their habitat. The 
Modocs and the Apaches belong to this category, I guess. There were other
tribes which came from the south ( Mexico..) and made their homes in New
Mexico and sorrounding places. The Pimas and the Pegasos may be in this 
category. The time of the southern migration must have been around the 
same time as the northern migration.

Of interest and not much discussed is their flight ( or their walk ) to 
North America. Is it true that they might have started around in Africa
and even travelled parts of Asia before landing in N.America.? I am 
interested in knowing their origin, the time and the travel.

Any info is greatly appreciated.

Thanx..!
Venky 
Newsgroups: soc.history,sci.archaeology
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Soviet space disaster?
Followup-To: soc.history
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 2 Jan 93 13:22:59

I don't remember details, but I believe that Soviet space accidents
have been fairly well reported by now - both in magazines like
_Aviation Week_ and in the post-censorship Soviet Press.  Yurii
Gagarin, the first man to orbit the earth, was killed flying
a fighter jet.  So were two American astronauts.  Over the years,
the Soviets had more and worse accidents than we did.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: soc.history
From: glhewitt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Gary Livingston Hewitt)
Subject: Re: Cannibalism (was Re: Bronze in Native America)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:15:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.224312.8764@cbfsb.cb.att.com> kja@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (krista.j.anderson) writes:
>I've read some modern histories that doubt that the cannibalism is
>really true to the extent claimed.  Informants may have lied to
>make their enemies or themselves seem more fierce.  But I have
>friends who do believe the stories....  I'd at least like to
>maintain that it's open to dispute. 

This presumes, of course, that the culture in question would value or
identify cannibalism as something within the realm of possibility.  The
extent is difficult -- but it seems that the Aztecs, at least, did it.
>
>Plus, sometimes the word cannibalism is stretched a bit.  For
>example, one S. American tribe are called cannibals because they
>partake of the burnt and ground bones of their revered departed
>ones.  I personally wouldn't really consider that cannibalism.

I don't know that it matters.  I'm less concerned with whether these
people crossed or did not cross any lines, than with what they might
have done.  We put the burned ashes of our departed ones into jars and
leave them in our houses.  Others might find this disgusting.
>
>Another story I heard or read is that there was sometimes a ritual
>bite taken out of an enemies heart, but that the bite was spat out.
>To take a bite at all was apparently to prove one's self-discipline
>in being able to do something so disgusting.  Later the warrior
>would brag that he ate the other man's heart.

On the other hand, it appears that when an Aztec warrior brought home
his captured foe, to be sacrificed, he was the only one *not* to partake
of the delicacy -- some kind of "momento mori" thing, perhaps, but no
one is really sure.
>
>I think some Native women also took a symbolic bite of the placenta
>after giving birth.  The umbilical cord, when it dropped off, was
>kept by the child as being special.  (But these things could be
>unsubstantiated rumors, as I think I read them in _Hanta Yo_ which
>is fiction, albeit well-researched.)
>
>The most personalized report of doing something to an enemy I've
>read is in _Black Elk Speaks_.  Black Elk was about 13 at the time
>of the Battle of Little Big Horn (1876), too young to fight, but
>old enough to be expected to scalp a dead 7th cavalryman.  He
>managed to complete his task, but not without throwing up a couple
>of times.

Sounds better than old "Last of the Mohicans," where scalping seems
awfully easy and done wtih relish.  I suppose that some had the stomach
for it, more than others.  Just like Jeffrey Dahmer seems to have had
the stomach for it....

Gary
-- 
  ++====+========+==========+=======+===++
  ||    |    Gary| L. Hewitt|       |   ||  HELP!  I've been imprisoned
  || glh|ewitt@ph|oenix.prin|ceton.e|du ||  by my .signature!  HELP!
  ++====+========+==========+=======+===++
From: ceb@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: source "tired, huddled masses.."? ON Liberty.
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:47:18 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization

In article <JMC.92Dec29231741@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.063129.8338@netcom.com> lion@netcom.com (carl loeber) writes:
>
>>  Does anyone know offhand from whence comes the phrase
>>  on the statue of Liberty?
>
>from Britannica 14th edition
>
>LAZARUS, EMMA (1849-1887) U.S. poet, the author of "The New Colossus",
>the sonnet engraved on a memorial tablet on the Statue of Liberty ...
>
>The article LIBERTY, STATUE OF tells us that the stature was dedicated
>in 1886.

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teaming shores.
Send them, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

IMO the wretched Haitians huddled in the Guantanamo Bay camp illuminate the
tarnish on that golden door.

If it's a sonnet, there are 9 more lines.  Can someone supply them?


Carrie		ceb@rechenau.unify.com	x6244		---------------------+
|   "Technical work needs reviewing for the same reason that pencils need    |
|   erasers."			- Daniel P. Freedman & Gerald M. Weinberg    |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.history,sci.archaeology
From: prs9k@brain.med.virginia.edu (Phil Scarr)
Subject: Re: Native Indians - Where did they start ?
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: Neuroclinical Trials Center, University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 12:56:25 GMT

In article <27539@sybase.sybase.com> venky@sybase.com (Venky) writes:
>
>It is known that the first Indian settlers came via Alaska around 500 A.D

Not quite.  Try somewhere between 25,000BP and 10,000BP.  Where did you
get 500AD?  There are dated monuments in the Maya lowlands of Guatemala
which date to 350AD.

>and proceeded to make Oregon, California and Arizona their habitat. The 
>Modocs and the Apaches belong to this category, I guess. There were other
>tribes which came from the south ( Mexico..) and made their homes in New
>Mexico and sorrounding places. The Pimas and the Pegasos may be in this 
>category. The time of the southern migration must have been around the 
>same time as the northern migration.
>
>Of interest and not much discussed is their flight ( or their walk ) to 
>North America. Is it true that they might have started around in Africa
>and even travelled parts of Asia before landing in N.America.? I am 
>interested in knowing their origin, the time and the travel.
>
>Any info is greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanx..!
>Venky 

Pick up any intro Archaeology book.  They all tell this story.  In a
nutshell, during the last major glaciation a bridge between asia and
north america opened up and asian nomads crossed the bridge and migrated
south filling north and south america by about 8000BP.  The rest is, as
they say, history.

	-Phil
-- 
PHIL SCARR        \      We are Microsoft...     /          (o) 804.243.0229
 University of    /     OS/2 is irrelevant.      \          (f) 804.243.0290
 Virginia,        \     UNIX is irrelevant.      /        prs9k@Virginia.EDU
 Neurosurgery     /     Openness is futile.      \     prs9k@Virginia.BITNET
 HP-UX is my life!\ Prepare to be assimilated... /   ...uunet!virginia!prs9k
From: prs9k@brain.med.virginia.edu (Phil Scarr)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Native Indians - Where did they start ?+
Date: 2 Jan 93 13:02:39 GMT
Organization: Neuroclinical Trials Center, University of Virginia

In article <1993Jan1.223415.1@acad3.alaska.edu> nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>As of the last bet I heard, that the americas have had upwards of three or more
>immigrations from asia.. Wit the eskimos/aleuts being the last..
>
>First came over some possibly 35,000 years ago, and the last around 3000 years
>ago.
>Part of my family history is in two of the three.. 
>I live in Nome, Alaska in an area where all came thru..

Well, that's probably not true.  There weren't really discrete periods
of migrations.  People would move into and over the land bridge from
asia when it was available (and I don't believe it was available after
about 8000BP, so the 3000BP date you give is probably much too late).


>
>==
>==
>Michael Adams alias Ghost Wheel/Morgoth NSMCA@acad3.alaska.edu
>
>

	-Phil
-- 
(--)======================================================================(--)
 ||                                                                        ||
 ||  As evey cell in Chile will tell / The cries of the tortured men       ||
 ||  Remember Allende in the days before / Before the army came            ||
 ||  Please remember Victor Jarra / In the Santiago Stadium / Es verdad    ||
 ||              Those Washington Bullets Again!      --The Clash          ||
 ||                                                                        ||
(--)== prs9k@virginia.edu === Phil Scarr === Department of Neurosurgery ==(--)
From: cowan@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu (P.L. Cowan)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Indentured servants (was Re: Civil War Alternate Histories)
Date: 23 Dec 92 10:30:56 -0800
Organization: SSRL, Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu

In article <1992Dec23.145947.2533@das.harvard.edu>, jmf@endor.harvard.edu ( ghost ) writes:
> In article <1992Dec18.130737.2090@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne) writes:
>>One can also remember that in the early colonial days an indentured servant
>>was only slightly more expensive than a slave laborer (both had to be fed,
>>clothed, housed and given medical treatment).  The indentured servants never
>>became a lifelong slave for a number of reasons.
> 
> Among which was that runaway indentured servants blended right in to the
> rest of the pioneer populace; same color, same language...
> The "employers" usually did their best to extend the period of servitude
> beyond the original contract by charging extaordinary rates
> for medical treatment, fines for imagined infractions, etc, & they charged
> for time-lost due to babies born to female servants, then deposited the
> babies in orphanages.  All a pretty good incentive to skip out on your
> contract.

My gg...gfather was an indentured servant. After only a few months on
a tabacco farm he enlisted in the Rev.War Army. I doubt that his
contract had expired.  I have always wondered whether he just skipped
out, or if he was able to buy his freedom, possibly with an
enlistment bounty. Does anyone know if there were such bounties in the
Rev. War?

-- 
Paul Cowan     
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Please send replies, comments etc. (no flames thank you) to COWAN@ANL.GOV   
"If anyone disagrees with anything I say, I am quite prepared not only to
retract it, but also to deny under oath that I ever said it." Tom Lehrer
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.history,sci.archaeology
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: source "tired, huddled masses.."? ON Liberty.
Date: 30 Dec 92 19:24:41 GMT
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.

lion@netcom.com (carl loeber) writes:
>Does anyone know offhand from whence comes the phrase
>on the statue of Liberty?

Offhand, the poet Emma Lazarus.  But I don't know if it was written
specifically for the statue or not.  A little research would reveal
this pretty quickly, I'd imagine.

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
Newsgroups: soc.history,sci.archaeology
From: lion@netcom.com (carl loeber)
Subject: source "tired, huddled masses.."? ON Liberty.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 06:31:29 GMT

Does anyone know offhand from whence comes the phrase
on the statue of Liberty?

Carl
San Jose
From: ed_eck@milkwy.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Bronze in Native America
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:05:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Dec18.205841.18449@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, 
kja@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (krista.j.anderson) writes...

[...about bronze]

>-- 
>Krista Anderson, krista@ihlpf.att.com  or  ihlpf!krista@att.att.com
>I don't want to be here; I want to be in an Agatha Christie novel,
>or in a musical, like Mary Poppins.


Within the past year or two _Scientific American_ had an article on 
Peruvian bronze making, and within the past decade it had an article on
chemical electroplating by the...Aztecs?

Ed E.

(I once played Christopher Wren in _The Mousetrap_, myself)
From: ca855@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Allen Coody)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Variable Vara
Date: 30 Dec 1992 20:54:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I hope this message makes it through, my others appeared to have died
on the screen.  Is the vara in 16th century documents of Spanish exploration
2.68 miles. 2.50 feet or is it close to 5 miles. Research I have conducted
on two known points on the Farfan Expedition indicates a vara was close to
five miles. Any ideas?
-- 
Robert A. Coody (Juan de los Caballeros)           +
Flagstaff, AZ                                +  +  +  +  +
               "Quien Vivira, Vera"                +
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen)
Subject: Re: Byzantine First Names Needed
Organization: The Nibelungenlied Incorporated
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:36:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.211857.16079@shearson.com> brekshyn@shearson.com writes:
>Pick up the first two volumes of John Julius Norwich's Byzantine History.  You'll have all the names
>you'll ever need and probably one of the best written books on the Byzantines 
>English.  You can also check Psellus' - A secret history (something like that)
>names in a particular period.  How about "Constantine" for starters, chuckle!

Nah, that's Anglified Latin, not Greek, man !

"Konstantinos" would be much better !




  ++ Tuomas Viljanen                     ++ For a battle like Crecy, you do ++
  ++ Lahderanta 20 A 19                  ++ not need a military genius like ++
  ++ SF-02720 Espoo FINLAND              ++ Edward III. All you need is an  ++
  ++ 358-0-592175 or c34657b@saha.hut.fi ++ idiot like Duke of Alencon.     ++
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: "david meadows" <david.meadows@canrem.com>
Subject: the taj mahal is a hindu
Reply-To: "david meadows" <david.meadows@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 3 Jan 93 20:11:47 EST

CG>************* THE TAJ MAHAL IS A HINDU TEMPLE **************

CG>                     By Shri P. N. Oak
  >                        (Copyright)

[six `articles' of revisionist `history' omitted for the sake of 
brevity and good taste]

So what? Hagia Sophia is a Christian Church, but Christians don't 
waste others' valuable computer time yakking about it.
---
  1st 1.02b #813  Stercus longe aufer, ne malum habeas -- CIL 6.31615
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Soviet space disaster?
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 21:13:02 GMT

There's an incident reported by Robert Heinlein in Expanded Universe (published
around 1980 or so, and a revision of a work published in the 1960's) in which
Heinlein describes that on a trip to the USSR, he had heard about some Russian
space vessel which everyone referred to as occupied by a human until the
vessel got in trouble, when everyone suddenly shifted to calling it unmanned.
He wonders if there is a dead Russian in space.

There is also a recent incident where a Russian was stuck in Mir space for
rather longer than necessary because of political reasons (such as having to
send up a Kazakh cosmonaut who wasn't fully trained to take over duties there),
but he was returned to Earth and didn't die.
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman )
Subject: Re: Cannibalism (was Re: Bronze in Native America)
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:56:21 GMT

kja@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (krista.j.anderson) writes:

>The most personalized report of doing something to an enemy I've
>read is in _Black Elk Speaks_.  Black Elk was about 13 at the time
>of the Battle of Little Big Horn (1876), too young to fight, but
>old enough to be expected to scalp a dead 7th cavalryman.  He
>managed to complete his task, but not without throwing up a couple
>of times.

	Wasn't scalping originally something the European settlers
	in America introduced?

	- Michael Goldman

-- 
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives." - Abba Eban
	Disclaimer:  All views are solely my own & not the views of Acuson.
	<sun!sono!miklg>  or  [miklg@acuson.com]
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: 50 Years Ago: Monday, 7 December, 1942
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:25:02 GMT

In article <KiboBz06E6.E1C@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker) writes:

>Three Italian miniature submarines attempt to enter Gibraltar Harbor by
>night.  Five of the submarines are lost, and the sixth returns to its
>parent ship; none successfully attack targets in the harbor.

Hmmmmm.....

How many submarines?? 9-)


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: soc.history