HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: DAVID@bmeucl.medcor.mcgill.ca
Subject: Re: Music in plays/the name Casilda
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 01:35:00 GMT

Greetings to those upon the bridge from Dafydd y Peireannydd.  Rest assured
that I am *NOT* that Dafydd.

"It was a lover and his lass" was published in _The_First_Booke_of_Ayres_ 
by Thomas Morley, in 1600.  From the editorial notes in my copy of that
book (Ed. Edmund H Fellowes, Rev. Thurston Dart -- Pub. Stainer and Bell)

"Morley's text is twenty-three years earlier than that of the first folio
Edition of AS YOU LIKE IT; the variants in the song-book as compared with
Shakespeare's text are of special interest.  It also becomes evident that
Shakespeare incorporated the song as he found it and that he was not its
actual author"

I have photocopies of original printed versions of two more songs that are
connected with Shakespeare's plays: Full Fathom Five, and Where the Bee Sucks.
(The latter is fun to give to early-music impared singers, as the text has
tall Ss in all the right places :) ).  These two appear in THE TEMPEST (I think)

In Service
Dafydd y Peireannydd
Shire de l'Isle du Dragon Dormant
Laurel Kingdom of the East

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kkr42091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (QUEEN ZENOBIA!)
Subject: Re: twinkie names
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:55:13 GMT

can anyone recommend names for ancient finnish characters?
i know that the kalevala is from a collection by lonnrot in the 1800's,
but the first book was not publiushed in finland to i believe
the 15th century.
can someone suggest where i can get names?
thanks for all your help
kiitti

and also does anyone know if the kantele is a period instument?
ergh instrument.

Well lets make it more than three questions.

What exactly is meant by documentaion in A&S faires?
I mean, a lot of my sources are written in Finnish and i will be ghald to
suppoly people with the book if they want but does that mean i haver to translate it too?

-kyllikki
please reply through email since i am in finland and havent been checking the newsgroup;s that often.

kkr42091@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu


-- 
*******************************************************************************
*Kimberli K Roan          * "I have heard the echoes in the dark, * IRC: good *
*901 W Main -Bsmt.        * dim and distant voices of the past,   * luck in   *
*Urbana, Il USA 61801     * and I've seen so far into the night,  * finding me*
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Interesting garb factoid: verification, anyone?
Keywords: underwear, morals
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:53:00 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <398-JNEWS-2.1@smylex.UUCP> Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP> writes:
>Greetings from Godfrey!
>
>I was looking through a book on late-period costuming recently, and came 
>across something interesting.
>
>It claimed that women who wore underwear during this period (Tudor and
>Elizabethan) were considered to be of loose morals.
>
>Is this true?

	flipping through _Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd_ (Janet Arnold),
there is a photo on p. 209 of a pair of "White linen drawers, or hose, 
embroidered with colored silks and gold metal thread, possibly for a woman. 
Italian, late sixteenth century. Metropolitan Museum of Art"   They look like
womens drawers of the mid ninetheenth century - fairly long and loose, with
a waistband and straight pants. They look like they would reach to mid calf.
The text on the page talks about 'linen hose' but ms Arnold is unsure of 
exactly what the term means.  "It may be conjectured that these linen hose were
worn beneath expensive knitted stockings to save them from damage caused by
perspiration ... . Another possibility is that the term 'hose' here refers to 
loose drawers , although these do not seem to have been generally worn by 
women until the nineteenth century, apart from occasional examples such as 
those worn by Pepys's wife.  surviving examples in embroidered linen are of
Italian origin and it is not known if they were worn by a man or a woman.

	On p. 68 there is a footnote (number 70)
John Colte was paid #10 'for ye Image representing hir late
Majestie with diverse other things, viz one paire of straite bodies, a paire
of drawers, bumbast, iiij screwing Irons, & other Irons, a payre of lastes,
lace & pointes, & also a Chest to cary ye same' (PRO, LC2/4(4), f. 20)
If 'hir late Majestie' was Elizabeth (the subject of the book after all)
and she was wearing drawers, they couldn't have been too scandalous.
						-Ilaine

-- 
Liz Stokes         | Ilaine's EZ-Pregnancy Test 
Ilaine de Cameron  | ... "Now take the skein of handspun yarn out of the 
                   | dyebath. If it is green, you are with child, if it
ilaine@panix.com   | is blue, you are not."
From: leo@willard.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: various
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:22:16 GMT
Organization: Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814

Allo from Yves to those who gentles who remember me from visits to the 
Rialto in seasons past and those gentles who I've yet to greet.
 
FILKING: I admit I get the 'jarring' impression from modern lyrics and 
tunes, but have no problem with the practice if done well - which for me 
is a period tune with non-modern lyrics. I imagine a singer having fun 
with a serious piece, making up a version that might suit less serious 
audiences, would have done such a thing in period.
 
Marcos and Mari... the latest info. for Axemoor (New Orleans, if you do 
not have it already) I have is: Ld Shoiel (Steve Faber), 172 South 
Military Rd, Slidell LA 70461-8901; 504-649-2957. Unfortunately this is 
from the April issue... *sigh*
 
Vajk... I'm glad to hear wiccans aren't viewed with suspicion wherever 
you are, but Meridies is in the Big Bad Bible Belt - we try not to say 
things like 'pagan' or 'medieval' in some parts down here. I stress the 
use of the word MODERN instead of mundane (even if it IS true) and the 
use of MIDDLE AGES to medieval. I'll agree that pagans are gaining more 
acceptance and people on the whole, of course.
 
Wolfrick... sorry, can't help you about fencing here other than that it's 
apparently too much hassle for those who could run things - as far as I 
know, and even this is outdated.
 
Nicholas van Leyden... I understand your view of smileys, but I see their 
purpose - to give a cue when the author is not only being humorous, but 
smiling(!) as well. Facial expressions, tone, gestures are all lost via 
e-mail, so some authors put them in. The issue goes beyond, IMO, 
recognizing humor or tone. I'll agree that literacy is dropping fast in 
America.
 
Edan Aylwin... just a brief comment on a recent tagline of yours - I 
think it was about the witch scene in MP&tHG (last word is Grail) and it 
being the first instance of cross-examination. Consider Socrates - even 
though he didn't take part... *sigh*
 
S'all for now...
 
Yves Fortanier de Cavaillon - Bryn Madoc/South Downs, Meridies
 
Post Scriptum - excuse the lackluster missive, I'm typing this in live - 
which is rare for me in these days off offline mail processing! B-)

-- 
leo@willard.UUCP (Rick Wallace)
Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814
From: samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Amplified Dancing
Keywords: amplified dance
Date: 20 Jul 92 20:28:13 GMT
Organization: Old, used techie

In article <1992Jul20.001853.21633@news.cs.indiana.edu> mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Michael Squires) writes:
>A system designed for voice would be a lot smaller and cheaper.  The speakers
>would be much smaller and easier to hide, although passing the mic between
>speakers in Great Court would be ugly.

	Ummm -- yeah, but a cheap (~$40) parabolic mike hung from the
ceiling and pointed at a particular spot on the dias would create a
"talking place" into which the designated herald/whatever could step when
an announcement was to be made.  Put the speakers behind/under the
Throne, and the Royalty get heard!

	This _is_ the Society for _Creative_ Anachronism, isn't it?

-- 
Sam'l Bassett -- System Administrator 	      (among other silly things)
Work: DSC/Optilink, 1310-C Redwood Wy, Petaluma CA 94954; 1-707-792-7253
Internet: samlb@optilink.com 		      UUCP: uunet!optilink!samlb
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Regarding Cameras at SCA events
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 12:44:32 GMT

In article <712043902.F00003@therose.pdx.com> Katherine.Stewart@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Katherine Stewart) writes:

>in it so it isn't so obtrusive. I've even toyed with the idea of putting my 
>camera in a relicquary (sp?) and mounting it on a monopod (staff), to 
             ^^^^^^^^^^
Wazzat?

-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-
From: z_falkrg@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Attn:  Herald's Point, Ansteorra
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:20:26 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Greetings all, 

	PLEASE REPLY TO MY E-MAIL ACCOUNT.

	I am seeking information on my device I sent up many, many, many moons
ago.  My name is Minami Aometora and I am from Graywood.  I sent up a mon
(black field, white open fan, black diamond on the fan), and opened a whole can
of worms as to whether or not to cross check SCA mon with Japanese mon.  And if
so, are european SCA devices checked with Japanese mon.  
	In all the hubub that ensued, I lost track of it and the local herald
has not been helpful.  Do any of you all know what happened?  Thanx in advance.

#############################################################################
#    Rob Falk                   | What do you do to a guy who double        #
#     a.k.a. Tora               |   crosses you and then steals you girl?   #
#                               | You let him keep her.                     #
#    Z_FALKRG@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU  |              --Rutger Hauer "Deadlock"    #
#                               | Life is a sexually transmitted and	    #
# Disclaimer:  Whatever I say   |   terminal disease                        #
#   is nothing more than the    |   	       --I really don't know        #
#   nonsensical ravings of a    | They're coming to take me away!  Ha Ha!!! #
#   lunatic mind...             |              --Napoleon XIV               #
#############################################################################
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: lords...
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:24:58 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Charles of Glaedenfeld writes:

>Sir or Master were used to address any knights, clergy, scholars, and high
>ranking commoners, as well as low-ranking nobles, like vavasours or earls'
>heirs.  The only distinction I've found mentioned is this: a priest is
>addressed as Master if he has a University education, and Sir otherwise.

You are failing to make a distinction between casual terms of address
and formal titles.  "Sir" as a term of address -- that is, lowercase
"sir" not following by a proper name, as in, "Good day, sir," was a
respectful greeting for anyone of equal or greater rank.  ("Sirrah"
was the term of address for someone of lesser rank.)  

As a formal title, "Sir" could be used in two ways: "Sir [firstname]"
was used for knights and priests.  "Sir [lastname]" was used for
baccalaureate graduates of some universities."  Graduates with
Master's and Doctorate degrees were, obviously, called by those
titles.  


>The term armiger, mentioned by William, is first recorded in 1840.  In
>period, the gentle classes (knights and higher) had arms.  

Definitely not true.  The gentle classes did not start with knights
but included those whom you call "high-ranking commoners."  William 
Shakespeare, for example, was someone who was awarded arms but not 
created a knight.  He was, however, entitled to call himself "Master 
William Shakespeare."

-- Nicholas van Leyden
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: An Tir Query plus lots of odds and ends
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:37:52 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Aryk (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:

>>I suppose can understand why people might believe such things, 
>>but I can't really understand why people with such "modernist" 
>>biases would still be attracted to the SCA.  

>It's not "modernism", it's whiggism.... 
>Being whiggish doesn't preclude being romantic about the past.  A whig
>might very well want to pretend to be in the Middle Ages, and he might
>well say that Bill Shakespeare was the greatest writer the English
>language has ever known, but he will still believe that things in general
>are better now than they were before.

But I was not talking about people who "believe that things *in
general* are better now than they were before."  I was talking
about people who believe that *anything* that is modern must 
*automatically* be better.  

There's no denying that in many areas -- science, technology, 
medicine, etc. -- there has been more advance made in the last 
50 years than in all of prior history.  But some people seem to 
extrapolate from this to assume that similar progress has been 
made in all fields.  It's a pretty safe bet that a technique for 
treating kidney stones discovered in 1992 is going to be better 
than one used in 1495.  That doesn't mean we can assume a priori 
that that Gilbert and Sullivan must be funnier that William Shakespeare, 
and Cheech and Chong funnier than G&S, because humor, like medicine, 
must have improved in the intervening years.

-- Nicholas van Leyden

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA Rapier combat illega
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 03:53:14

>Both Tulane and Louisiana State have fencing teams. I have
>also participated in                                                      
>unofficial practice there. There will be no fencing in                    
>Meridies until the Powers                                                 
>that be give up the ghost. Too Bad.                                       
>                                                                          
>Brian                                                                     

From what I have heard (pure rumor), the laws do exist.  However, I
have also heard that SCA heavy weapons combat would run afoul of
the law just as quick as rapier combat or fencing.

As far as Meridies is concerned, Ansteorra and Trimaris gave some
rapier combat demos at the Gulf War in Meridies.  At court that
evening Trimaris opened the Order of the White Scarf of Trimaris
(rapier combat fighting award) and made the first two members.
___
 X MegaMail 2.10 #0:CRUSADE CRUSADE CRUSADE!!!!

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: andrew@bransle.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Draskoy)
Subject: Pennsic period music gathering(s)
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:12:22 GMT

My lords and ladies,
  Greetings and best wishes of good health from Lord Miklos

[In light of the recent posting about other period music at Pennsic,
perhaps I should call this the Monophonic Challenge :-]

  Everyone interested in authenticly styled performance of period songs
and music is invited to a gathering on Monday, the tenth day of August.
The time will be announced - watch the notice boards, especially in the barn.

  The goal is to enjoy song and instrumental music as it would have been
performed in period, in the appropriate style, and on appropriate instruments.

  The location is the Gyges encampment, at the bottom of Servant's Road
where it intersects with the Runefield Highway.  Look for the shrines.
The Gyges encampment is an in-persona period encampment (although for
economic reasons we don't have period pavilions.)  Please avoid modern
artifacts and references.  (Note - this includes modern sheet music.)

Guidelines for musicians:

  The songs, music, performing style, and instrumentation should
be period and appropriate to each other.  Modern versions of period
instruments are acceptable unless they have jarringly modern associations
or are radically different from their period predecessors.  (For example,
baroque recorders and neo-celtic harps are reasonable, modern guitars
are not.)

  If all goes well, there will be another session later in the week.
If you have questions, or would like to debate the guidelines, please
send me email or drop by the Gyges encampment.

Miklos Sandorfia
andrew@bransle.ucs.mun.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sommerfeld@apollo.hp.com (Bill Sommerfeld)
Subject: Re: "Once upon a Weekend" demo tape
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:39:52 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard

In article <711615569.F00005@therose.pdx.com> Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond) writes:

   JM>  Greetings from Arval!
   JM>
   JM>  I must say that I much preferred the Wall Street Journal article on
   JM>  Pennsic, which used hand-drawn portraits of the two kings, to any
   JM>  video

   They really did this? A Mundane newspaper was that sensitive to what we do?
   Gee.... I'm really very touched!

Well, that's the normal treatment that anyone covered by the Journal
gets..  the Wall Street Journal doesn't ever print photos.

The daily human interest story in one of the middle columns of the
front page often has a hand-engraved picture of the subject(s).




From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period vs. Filk (was Basic Courtesy)
Date: 30 Jul 92 04:35:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712567015.F00001

LE>  > Esmeralda asks about definitions of filk.
LE>  >
LE>  Alas, in fandom (where the term "filk" originated), it *also* applies
LE>  oringal words and tunes *about* Fandom.
LE>
LE>  So I have to say that original songs *about* the SCA are filk. This
LE>  ranges from "Burden of the Crown", to some pretty silly stuff.

The problem here in the SCA is that by putting original, "period feeling" 
songs into the category of filk you put them into a category many SCAdians 
are automatically prejudiced against.

Thus we must find another word for them, or lose the pleasure of them in 
many instances. In my opinion this renders *mundane* definitions of the word 
unusable to us, where they include "contrafait". (Which is, BTW, a perfectly 
good word in itself...)

Therefore, for SCA purposes, we will have to make some readily-obvious 
distinction between the usual sort of filk (SCA words set to "Gilligan's 
Island" and mundane and modern references set to "Greensleeves" and all SF 
and fantasy tunes) and the subset that is socially acceptable here, in all 
situations.

Note that Christian was hurt over just this distinction in this forum, and a 
young lady earlier described her hurt at having to leave the Enchanted 
Ground. Neither of these people meant to offend, and neither of their 
critics meant to hurt. (The young lady left in tears, if I remember...) The 
problem is that a certain class of acceptable song is lumped in with 
unacceptable songs, making it hard for new SCA members to fathom the "rules" 
(especially since they are customary rules, not "real" rules) and avoid 
embarrassment.

Surely you don't believe the integrity of the usual mundane definition of 
the word "filk" is more important than the social issue inside the SCA?

I know you mundanely, and I know you are usually very sensitive to people 
being hurt because of someone's definition of what they do.

Semantics is the devil in this detail....

So let's change the word!

Moreach NicMaolain
trifid@agora.rain.com
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Intolerance, re homosexuality and filks
Date: 30 Jul 92 05:18:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712567015.F00003

dd>  From: ddfr@quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
dd>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
dd>  Some of the populace believe,  as is their right, although I think
dd>  them misled, that these are the *only*  entertainments worthy of the
dd>  light of the campfires of the Society. Sobeit." (Moreach NicMaolain)
dd>
dd>  Who believes that? I thought I had the most restrictive bardic circle
dd>  at Pennsic until Aryk started posting about his, and I do not think
dd>  either of us takes that position. It sounds as though you are
dd>  criticizing a position nobody holds--or do you know people who do?
dd>  Perhaps this is another interkingdom difference.

Nope. A very localized problem here in our region of our kingdom. No 
reference to you meant, milord...

Just an attack of zealotry, no big thing... I'm currently over-sensitized 
to authenticity police.  ;->

Beggin' yer pardon milord...  :-)
Moreach NicMaolain
trifid@agora.rain.com 
 
From: Cat.Moran@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Cat Moran)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: "Once upon a Weekend" demo tape
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:18:32

 SH> Is capturing my unwilling image anyone's business who doesn't know me?

 But is it really your business if a candid picture of you is taken, AND you  are not likely to ever see that picture?  I'm not saying this to be snide...   I often take pictures of things (pavillions, garb, etc) that I'm not likely  to see again.  If I wish to take a close shot of YOUR garb, I will ask.  And  if you are not rude in saying no, there will be no hard feelings.  But if I  am taking the picture from half-way across the <field/court/encampment>, you  will likely never know I took that picture. 



 Unless you break into my house  and start looking through the pics that I didn't throw out, that is.  ;)  So, 
 what's the problem?
 
                                 Caitlin


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca