HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: whalen@starch.enet.dec.com (Rich Whalen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: bike trail info wanted
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:20:48 GMT
Reply-To: whalen@starch.enet.dec.com (Rich Whalen)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Shrewsbury, MA


In article <1992Sep27.180054.15890@husc3.harvard.edu>,
ndrose@husc8.harvard.edu (Nathan Rose) writes:
|>Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
|>Subject: bike trail info wanted
|>From: ndrose@husc8.harvard.edu (Nathan Rose)
|>Date: 27 Sep 92 18:00:53 EDT
|>Organization: Harvard University Science Center
|>
|>Can anyone provide information on something called the East Coast Bike
|>Trail, supposedly to run from Boston to Florida? Will this be an actual
|>bike trail, or merely a suggested route along normal roads? What's been
|>done on it so far?
|>
|>Nathan Rose
|>
|>

There is currently a route on regular roads that goes from Maine to Florida
that has a name like "Maine to Florida bike route".  Work recently started
on the "East Coast Greenway", which I believe originally runs from Boston
to Washington DC.  There may be plans to extend it to Florida.  Early last
spring I got a solicitation for help in routing for the East Coast Greenway,
and from their questions I'd say that they were concentrating on off-road
riding (bike paths, rail-trails, etc), but using roads where there was no
other choice.
------------------------------------------------------
Rich Whalen

You don't know where these bits have been!
From: Dave Snyder <davesnyder@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:30 PDT
Subject: Cycle Routes on Main Roads
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1702500010:000:1042
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!davesnyder    Sep 30 02:30:00 1992


From: Dave Snyder <davesnyder>
Subject: Cycle Routes on Main Roads

/* Written  2:05 am  Sep 30, 1992 by davesnyder in cdp:transport */
/* ---------- "Cycle Routes on Main Roads" ---------- */
I've forwarded your request to John Forester, author of
_Effective Cycling_ and one who loves to share his opinions
about proper routing of bicycle traffic.

In my opinion, you must consider each situation separately.
A rote parallel to a main route is of no use if it's
crossed with the main route's feeder routes and therefore
is full of stops required by signs and lights. The main route
would be preferable.

However, and Forester I think would disagree with me on
this, if the parallel route could be made bicycle-priority,
(i.e. - no stops for through bicycles; cross traffic required
to stop for bicycle traffic, restrictions on trhough car traffic,
wide lanes and/or no side parking, etc.), then, a parallel
route would be preferable because it would be away from the 
pollution and dangers of high-speed cars.

just my 2-cents worth.

dave
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Ticketing illegal cycling (was Re: Bikes
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:10:22 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.soc
Distribution: na
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <1992Sep26.022823.29673@slc.com>, marcs@slc.com (Marc San
Soucie) wrote:

> ...a lot of drivers simply have no experience with 
> cyclists on the road, and react with anger because they really don't know 
> what the heck to do. If the cyclists all behave as much as possible like 
> cars (as they're requested to do by the law), car drivers are likely to 
> feel less uncomfortable in their presence. Since most of them really can't 
> predict what a single cyclist is going to do, there's a problem.
> 
> This is one case where uniformity (up to a point) works to our advantage.

I agree.  But behaving like cars does *not* mean obeying all the rules. 
Cars don't obey all the rules.  Stop signs are the best example; people are
always saying "bikes always run stop signs," but the truth is that cars and
bikes run stop signs with about the same frequency and at about the same
speeds.  I'd guess that cars and bikes blow red lights about the same, too,
and fail to signal turns and stops about the same, and respond to slower
traffic in front by refusing to slow down.  And respond to rude behavior
with more rude behavior.

I don't advocate all of these behaviors, obviously.  I advocate safe riding
practices along the general lines of Effective Cycling, though I'm pretty
loose about suburban stop signs.  I advocate courtesy and reasonableness
between cyclists and drivers.  But as far as I can see the two groups that
really need to be educated are motorists and juvenile cyclists, neither of
whom read this newsgroup, and so it irritates me to hear adult cyclists
scolding one another and insisting that our safety depends on pleasing
motorists.  It just plain doesn't, though it could be helped a lot by
*educating* motorists.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:456 rec.bicycles.rides:226 dc.driving:50 dc.general:2482
From: lorrayne@smiley.mitre.org (Lorrayne Schaefer)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,dc.driving,dc.general
Subject: Re: Commute, a beautiful morning...
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:33:23 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA

In article <1992Oct5.182506.23004@csi.uottawa.ca> pete@aix1.uottawa.ca
(Peter Hickey) writes: 
> 
>Yes, I love the animals I see on my comute.  One day, I came 
>quite close to a skunk.  That was fun.  How many netters have 
>run into skunks while cycling?  
> 

I've run into skunks many times when I lived in California.  It's not
fun when you have to ride  past them up hill!

Lorrayne
From: jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: The Bird
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:45:14 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <4cz-D6#@engin.umich.edu> kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu (Michael F. Kamprath) writes:
>I have a little ethical dilema here . .  I have noticed that my middle 
>finger is starting to pop up alot easier lately when cars honk at me, 
>especially when they almost hit me due to their inability to obey simple
>traffic signals like stop signs.  Do you all think that my response
>to their irritatingly arogant hink gives bikers a bad rap?
>

Ah, to be young again...

I came up with these three rules last week when the redneck spit on me
out the window of his Chevy 4x4:

1) Never flip off someone whose vehicle outweighs yours by 4000 lbs.

2) Never flip off someone when you are wearing shoes in which you
can't even walk, much less run.

3) Never flip off someone unless you've been working on your sprints,
and you're in the right gear.

So just keep ridin'...

Jim
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: The Bird
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 21:06:42 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6EBD3641201C4FC@sprl-mac2016.sprl.umich.edu>
X-Xxdate: Sun, 27 Sep 92 21:08:52 GMT

I have a little ethical dilema here . .  I have noticed that my middle 
finger is starting to pop up alot easier lately when cars honk at me, 
especially when they almost hit me due to their inability to obey simple
traffic signals like stop signs.  Do you all think that my response
to their irritatingly arogant hink gives bikers a bad rap?


========================================================================
| Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan   |
|   kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering   |
|   kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |                              |
|---------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| Never, never, never drink two 40-ouncers of St. Ides in one night    |
|                                   --Michael Kamprath                 |
========================================================================
From: jmd@muppet.bt.co.uk (John Downey)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Buses and Bikes - Summary
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:24:47 GMT
Reply-To: jmd@muppet.bt.co.uk
Organization: British Telecom

+---------
|
| In article 2yD@u36.kwnet.on.ca, sp@u36.kwnet.on.ca (Sean P Goggin) writes:
|
| Hi,
|
| I asked some questions of the net concerning the locations of
| transit systems which permit bicycles to be carried as a matter of
| routine.
|
| Below is a summary of information gleaned.
|
| ...
|
| Integration of Bicycles on Transit Systems
|
| ...
|
| London, England.
|
| Bicyles can be taken on board the underground subway trains.
|
+---------

On certain lines. (Specifically, the ones coloured yellow, green &
purple on the Underground map, which are fairly close to the surface.)
Otherwise, no. In the deeper stations, it's very awkward to carry
bikes up & down the escalators anyway.

+---------
|
| They
| can also be taken on most trains - urban or long distance. Some
| trains have baggage cars in which the bikes are carried. More
| frequently they are just taken into the passenger compartment.
| Bikes are not allowed on commuter trains during rush hours.
|
| No additional charge.
|
+---------

Not in principle, but I've been asked to buy a "cycle reservation
ticket" (3 pounds) to carry my bike in a guard's compartment on an
Inter-City train; a kind of "back-door" charge. Still, it can be
done.


John Downey

Paper mail:			MLB 1/21
				BT Reseach Labs
				Martlesham Heath, Ipswich, Suffolk, England
Mail:				jmd@cyclone.bt.co.uk
Telephone:	(UK)		0473 649626
		(international)	+44 473 649626
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
From: arnie@col.hp.com (Arnie Berger)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1:30p)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:47:08 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

bushnell@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (William D. Bushnell) writes:
> 
> On a club (bicycle) ride I took yesterday up in the Santa Cruz Mountains 
>in the
> San Francisco Bay Area, I witnessed a motorcycle/bicycle incident, the
> circumstances of which have been weighing rather heavily on me.  I'd like to
> share what I saw with both bicyclers and motorcyclers in the hope that we can
> better understand the problems we face on the roadway.
> 
> We had just ridden up Alpine Rd. from the west and were resting in front of 
>the
> stop sign at Alpine Rd. and Skyline Blvd at about 1:25p.  After a few minutes
> we heard a large group of motorcyclists approaching from the south along
> Skyline.  While one of my companions was talking to me, I turned and watched
> a  group of some 20 motorcyclists slowly (i.e. within the speed limit) ride 
> by two  abreast in the lane.  Many but not all of them wore leather jackets
> emblazoned > with "Hell's Angels" on the back.
> 


The first few time that I took my bike with me to Palo Alto on business trips
I had wonderful rides on Skyline Blvd. Then I made the mistake of riding there
on a Sunday afternoon. I lasted about 5 miles. By the fifth mile my legs were
shaking so badly I had to get off. The reason? These crazy guys on these Ninja
motorcycles blazing by at 70 or 80 mph. That situation up there is a tragedy
waiting to happen. Why doesn't CHP set up nice, major radar-trap, production
line. The kind of radar blitzes that the NY State Police are famous for running
on the roads leading out of Watkins Glen. I have fond memories of spending 
a lovely Sunday afternoon on a hillside outside of Ithaca watching all the
people coming back from the Grand Prix and hitting our famous radar trap. 
There was one radar car hidden behind a tree, and about 10 patrol cars 
located about 1/2 mile further down the road around a blind curve. 


                                                         Arnie
 

-- 
Arnie Berger
arnie@col.hp.com
Telnet 719-590-5642
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: rlewis@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca (Robert Lewis)
Subject: Re: Nomenclature: "Bike Lanes" and "Bike Paths"
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 06:19:11 GMT

rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:

>On the new Minuteman Commuter Bikeway (Bedford to Cambridge, MA)
>some of these intersections are still partly blocked with
>Jersey barriers because of continuing construction.   These were
>inconvenient, but eliminated the danger that a cyclist would 
>shoot across the intersection at 20 mph.

>Where these were not present, I sometimes found myself almost
>all the way into an intersection before I was aware that there
>*was* an intersection.   Something needs to be done to warn
>cyclists that cross traffic is ahead.

The usual procedure is to put up everybody's favourite, "Cyclists
Dismount".

Robert Lewis
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,dc.driving,dc.general
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Commute, a beautiful morning...
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:21:05 GMT

In <1992Oct5.182506.23004@csi.uottawa.ca> pete@aix1.uottawa.ca (Peter Hickey) writes:

>Yes, I love the animals I see on my comute.  One day, I came
>quite close to a skunk.  That was fun.  How many netters have
>run into skunks while cycling?

When I was in college in Claremont, CA, I was once hit with
the flying body of a skunk that had just been hit by a
car... YUCK!  The skunk had sprayed the car as it was run
over and was dead by the time it flopped against my left
leg, so I got only a minor dose of skunk stench on me.

On a cheerier note, I see the same herd of deer grazing
alongside the road on my way to work at least once a week,
and they're so used to me they don't even look up for long
when my bike comes around the corner.

I was slowed to a crawl the other morning by a gaggle of
geese waddling along, not across, the same road.  Domestic
geese can be vicious, but usually they're just stupid.
These ones would not move left or right when I came up to
them, just speed up to a frantic, teetering waddle for a
moment, then slow back down.  Eventually they took off down
a driveway, cackling and running into each other.
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:472 rec.motorcycles:35039
From: dev2@inform.co.nz (Michael Seales)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1:30p)
Date: 7 Oct 92 00:03:08 GMT
Organization: InForm Group Ltd.

Sounds like a white-leathered-fast m/cyclist wouldn't be riding with the
hells angels people. Anyway, if he didn't hit anything, he probably didn't
even know he caused an accident, just blasted off down the road enjoying 
himself.

And yes, when I'm riding with friends we always hang a leg out the
side of the bike to warn of danger - gravel, potholes, dead animals, perhaps
even push-bikes could be worthy of shaking a leg.

Also appears the other m/cyclists were quite good about the whole thing.

One question I have, Bill, is that if you saw who you thought was the same
m/cyclist again, why didn't you try and read the licence plate then?


-- 
###############################################################################
# Mike Seales         Email: homer@inform.co.nz    \         /                #
# Inform Group Ltd.   Phone: 64-4-4720996          (         )   Oh Lordy!    #
# Level 8 DB Tower      Fax: 64-4-4732407         (-----------)               #
# 111 The Terrace                                 (           ) We're out of  #
# Wellington      My .sig is not silly, I'm too    (         ) goldfish again.#
# New Zealand     busy doing real work to improve it (_____)   And I'm hungry.#
###############################################################################
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:455 rec.motorcycles:34877 ba.motorcycles:478
From: thompson@Apple.COM (Paul Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1:30p)
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:27:57 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

irresponsibly, no, there is no "campaign" of harassment going on, and
no, practically kicking a bicyclist is not a sign to following
motorcyclists.  It sounds like you had the misfortune to run into
several riders who were not taking into account the possible
ramifications of their actions.

>As I said at the top, I'm interested in starting a _reasoned_ discussion aimed
>at clearing up misunderstandings that motorcyclists and bicyclists have with
>respect to each other.

Motorcyclists should give bicyclists plenty of room.  Bicyclists should
move to the side of the road if a motorcycle is trying to pass.  Seems
simple enough, but some motorcyclists will still pass too close to
bicycles, and some bicyclists will continue to ride two abreast around
blind curves.  Unfortunately, most of these offenders are not reading
this thread.
-- 
Paul Thompson    Apple Computer    DoD #47    Would you remember a 1-line .sig?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,dc.driving,dc.general
From: don@island.COM (Don Hermes)
Subject: Re: Commute, a beautiful morning...
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:40:59 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.115706.24258@linus.mitre.org> woycke@smiley.mitre.org (Daniel Woycke) writes:
>I just had to let folks know about my commute this morning. I biked in
>to work 15 miles and saw 3 deer, a fox, and a nice (not great)
>sunrise. The only animals I tend to see while driving are dead. Isn't
>this a wonderful reason to bike commute.

If you like dead animals. 
I saw two skunks this morning and last week I saw a deer. They were all dead.

Don
don@island.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,dc.driving,dc.general
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO)
Subject: HOV abolished!
Organization: HFS, Inc., McLean VA
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 01:03:14 GMT

Wonderful news folks!  Governor Wilder today has abolished the HOV lane
effective Monday on the Toll Road.  I guess it's not useless to voice
one's opinion to their elective representatives after all.  Kudos to
Congressman Wolf for his ingenuity in bringing this about.
-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:  ata@hfsi.com
HFS, Inc.		  VA20     |     UUCP:  uunet!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601	   |    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
McLean, VA  22102	           |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Dangerous situation - advice wanted
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 22:37:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep26.000137.4666@news.eng.convex.com> oexmann@convex.com (Carla Oexmann) writes:
>
>You won't like my advice at all : don't pass on the right.  Wait behind 
>the motorist.  If you really want to make a habit of it, make sure 
>your insurance is paid up.  Reasons ?
>1 : That oncoming driver won't even be looking for you.
>2 : The driver in the car you're passing may decide to turn right, 
>    rather than left.  Do not assume that a turn signal means that 
>    the diriver is going to turn in the indicated direction.  It 
>    usually does, but do you want to gamble your life on it ?
>
Sam Henry has said almost the identical thing.

I _agree_ completely with your assessments. But it is a legal manuveur
in most states. If you feel the need to make this pass, you must
be aware that you have become invisable for some period of time ands
act accordingly.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
From: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1:30p)
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.soc
Originator: markk@sparcplug
Reply-To: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:55:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.154708.28091@col.hp.com>, arnie@col (Arnie Berger) writes:

>The first few time that I took my bike with me to Palo Alto on business trips
>I had wonderful rides on Skyline Blvd. Then I made the mistake of riding there
>on a Sunday afternoon. I lasted about 5 miles. By the fifth mile my legs were
>shaking so badly I had to get off. The reason? These crazy guys on these Ninja
>motorcycles blazing by at 70 or 80 mph. 

Arnie, if you're uncomfortable riding your bicycle in traffic, perhaps
you should stick to bicycle trails.  Don't blame everyone else for
your own problems.

- )V(ark)<
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Ticketing illegal cycling
Date: 1 Oct 92 17:00:43 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.soc
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <1582@seqp4.sequoia.com>, rickd@sequoiasequoia.com (Richard
Dienel) wrote:
> 
[A lot of good stuff about not letting ourselves be blamed for the behavior
of cars, etc., and then this:]

> And yes, we should obey the rules of the road. 1 human + 25 lbs of metal
> & rubber = 1 vehicle. This places us under the laws that govern the
> privilege of using the public roadways. Stop at red lights and stop signs.
> Do not pass on the right in the same lane. Signal all turns and lane changes.
> Ride sanely.

I ride sanely, and I obey the REAL rules of the road, i.e. the ones
motorists obey.  This means that at stop signs, if I can clearly see that
there is no conflicting traffic, I proceed without stopping.  The same
applies to red lights when I am turning right.  I signal turns and lane
changes when it seems necessary (which is not usual) and when I can safely
take one hand off the bars (which is not always).  I also obey the REAL
speed rule, which is "go as fast as you can without getting scared."

I bring this up, for about the 3rd or 4th time this week, because people
are always harping on the stop sign issue.  I'm really sick of being told
to stop at all stop signs when in fact nobody else does.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: davevh@microsoft.com (Dave Van Horn)
Subject: Re: Ultimate cycling city _ Beijing
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:55:56 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

Mark Hickey writes:

>[bikes] get through Beijing traffic a *lot faster than the cars*
			....
>Moral of the stoy: Bicycles and motor vehicles *can* get along.

What you're describing isn't "getting along", it's the same
superior/inferior relationship as here except that the roles are
reversed.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc