HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 16 Dec 1992 12:20:57 EST
From: Yaakov Kayman <YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Apology? Feh! (Re: Vijay's Genuine Apology)

In article <1992Dec16.163129.24073@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay
Bhuchar) says:
>
>I just wanted to apologize for posting Messianic
>literature in SCJ.

So far, so good.

>I will continue over in the correct forum which is
>alt.messianic and hope that I continue to ....

This we can do without.

>My first article was in a response to a question
>* What is Messianic Judaism? * I showed you ...
> which is ....

This is no apology. It's yet another attempt to missionize, this time
in retrospect, after being asked to leave SCJ.

>My follow ups were in response either to news items or e-mail
>(i.e. you said there was no ... and I showed ....)

and here's another attempt.

>I will get round to sending e-mail enquirers a standard reply soon

Make it a non-missionizing one, please.

>Follow me on alt.messianic and I will ....

You go there alone, chum.

>Believe me you think you ....
>Its got something to do with ....

Learn how to truly, sincerely apologize, and don't insult our
intelligence.

>See you on a.m hopefully

Good riddance! Don't count on it!!

>Vijay

Yaakov K.
--------
Yaakov Kayman      (212) 903-3666       City University of New York

BITNET:   YZKCU@CUNYVM        "Lucky is the shepherd, and lucky his flock
Internet: YZKCU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU     about whom the wolves complain"
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Just what IS the e-mail policy?? (was Re: STOP Spreading...)
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:07:50 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

> In <1992Dec17.154906.7914@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo
> Pinkas) writes:
> 
> I assumed that it was okay to cite the basic idea in e-mail, unless
> the sender specifically asked that this not be done.  I also assumed that
> it was bad form to POST (not QUOTE) e-mail verbatim directly to the net.
> "Andy" and I thrashed this out, you may remember. :-(
> 
> So, what's the answer?

Most university systems have a disclaimer that reads, in part, that
one is supposed to operate as if all e-mail is publicly accessible
and that no privacy can be assured.  The nature of the medium, and
extensive Constitutional law, both confirm that the individual has
no REASONABLE EXPECTATION TO PRIVACY with regard to mail sent to
another person.  If you are willing to share an idea with the person
you send mail to, then you should be prepared for that person sharing
your letter with others.

It may not be the most polite thing to do when the subject matter is
sensitive, however it is always permissible to post mail that others
send to you.  The time for discretion has passed and the burden lies
with the person who doesn't want his/her ideas expressed publicly.
If you want an idea kept confidential, the only way to guarantee that
it will is to NOT send it.

Of course, there's always room to be a nice person and respect the
wishes of those who converse with you, I'm simply outlining the
legalities of modern communication.

Todd
From: 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Andy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Uncircumized jews
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:49:15 GMT
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston

I heard that rabbis sometimes give permission for sons not to be circumcised if
 there is a history of some medical problem or evidence of  a specific medical
 problem. I remember a news story a few years ago about a couple whos son ended
 up dying because of some circumcision related problem, their rabbi gave them
permission not to circumcise their next child if a boy.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:27:18 GMT

In <9212111738.AA13171@cyclone.sbi.com> gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler) writes:

>If I hear two Jews arguing about whether we must drink chalav
>Yisrael in this country, I feel great that both sides are concerned
>enough to be arguing.  (If they came to blows, I'd be ecstatic!)

You would probably bet on who would win, too.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: pasward@maytag.uwaterloo.ca (Paul A.S. Ward)
Subject: Re: JforJ ad in Newsweek
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:01:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.152648.25092@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> nwf0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (NICOLE WHITNEY FOX) writes:
>In article <BzEw9D.K70@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca>, pasward@maytag.uwaterloo.ca (Pau
>l A.S. Ward) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec17.114533.33750@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> mlsa@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (M
>ICHAEL LAUREN SHERMAN) writes:
>>
>>>Jews for Jesus, aren't they just Goys who speak Hebrew with a forked tongue.
>>>IF you are for Jesus Christ you can't be Jewish now can you, You'd pretty
>>>much, by definition have to be _Christ_ian.
>>
>>Now, we've been through all this before.  Yes, you CAN be Jewish, even if
>>you are not following Judaism.  If your mother is Jewish, you are Jewish!
>>So, like it or not, there are indeed Jewish Christians out there, (though
>>they are not part of the set of Legitimate Interpretations :-) just as there
>>are New Age Jews, and Buddist Jews, and Hindu Jews, and Athiest Jews, and so
>>on and so on and so on ...
>>
>Hmmmm.  I didn't realize that Judaism is a race, and not a religion.  What
>does that make me?  A Jewish Jew?

1)  Judaism is a religion.  Jews are a people that is broader than simply
    followers of Judaism.  Many Jews do not subscribe to Judaism, including
    many who read this network.  (Just go to Israel to see hundreds and
    thousands of secular Jews).

2)  Point (1) is irrelevant to the point I was responding to.  Someone claimed
    that "Jews for Jesus" are in fact Goyim acting like Jews for the sake of
    gaining converts.  Some may be.  The majority (especially with the specific
    organization that is called "Jews for Jesus") are NOT Goyim.  They are
    Jews who have converted to Christianity.  That is the point!

Paul.
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Messianic Judaism
Date: 15 Dec 92 02:04:41 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Dec11.143305.20681@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar) writes:
>Jewish writings such as the Talmud confirm that Jesus performed the
>greatest miracles ever.

Oh really, and what miracles are these?  Anything near to those that
God did while Moses was in charge?  Like parting the Reed Sea, turning
Egypt's water into blood, slaying all of Egypt's first born, guiding
the Jews through the desert for 40 years with a pillar of fire by
night and a pillar of smoke by day, bringing manna from heaven to feed
the nation while they wandered in the desert for 40 years, bringing
water from any number of large desert rocks, almost completely
revealing himself on Mt. Sinai as the Torah was given...

Let's see your deity top that list.

>It is quite clear that the Jewish rejection of Jesus led to a 19 century
>dispersion and punishment for us Jews.

Even the Roman Catholic church took back this decree in the 60's...
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 11:39:07 EST
From: Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Andy the Canadian twat
 <92352.1746092893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> <1992Dec18.014951.1@vxdesy.desy.de>

In article <1992Dec18.014951.1@vxdesy.desy.de>, godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de says:
>
>In article <92352.1746092893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>, Andy
><2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>> In article <102502@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (MatthewP
>> Wiener) says:
>>>
>>>In article <dfs.724618376@sybok>, dfs@doe (David F. Skoll) writes:
>>>>> Mr Skoll, please stop sending me e-mail. I don't read it and I don't
>>>>> want it!
>>>
>>>>Well, "Andy", if you post a public denunciation of me on scj, calling
>>>>me names in front of the entire scj community, I will send you e-mail
>>>>to keep the discussion OFF scj.
>>>
>>>I've had similar problems with Andy
>>>insulting without you replying.  If you do, it's harassment.
>
>
>I too have had problems with Andy, who is just a rather ignorant child with
>odd ideas about use of the network which he tries to impose unilaterally
> on others.  He also appears to be incapable of constructing sentences in his
>native language.
>
>Finally his definition of harassment is inconsistent with that used in
>English and Canadian law.  Sending unwanted emails and ordinary mail is
>not harassment - at best it could be termed a nuisance.
>
>Don't take him seriously and Andy, if you reply to this I will consider it
>harassment.
>
>Laurence
>

Good god Lawrence, everyone has problems with you, and you seem to have
problems with this entire nation of ours:)  Thanks for putting in your
two cents worth though.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: The difference between a chasid and a misnagid
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:54:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.161016.1251@Princeton.EDU>
jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Solomon Weinstein) writes:

>All right... I hate to be the one to ask, but my
>knowledge of Jewish culture is generally limited to Conservative
>Judaism, so: what's a misnagid?

Anyone with a pH above 7.  After all Misnagdim are the opposite of Acidim.

I'll leave the serious answers to someone else.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: If I were Prime Minister
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:44:09 GMT

In <9212171412.AA03778@helix.nih.gov> norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman) writes:

>Morning news is that Israel is trying to expel about 700 of
>the murderers, but probably won't since the WORLD will probably object. 

The latest I heard (via Israel Line) is that 380 Hamas supporters will
be expelled.

--
David F. Skoll
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Irreconcialable differences...
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:19:33 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Dec14.000338.16665@zeus.franklin.edu> scruggs@zeus.franklin.edu (Kevin Scruggs) writes:
>	The more I find out about Judiasm the more it seems I never
>knew anything about it... I would like to know what judaism has to say
>about the concept of a 'covenant' as a formalized contract with god.
>This idea is being batted about in alt.atheist in a thread comparing
>the old/new testaments...  

Well, there are many covenants in the Torah.  The most famous was the
one that was between God and Abraham, where he took many different
animals, cut them in half, and walked with God between them, and then
sacrificed them.  Circumcision is a perpetual reminder of that
covenant.

On more technical terms, a covenant is similar to a contract.  With
one major difference.  If one party breaks a contract, it is
nullified, and both parties go free (after settlement in court).  A
covenant can never be broken.  If one party violates it, the other is
still bound, and the violator remains bound to return.  For example,
just because you violate a covenant with God, he can't violate his
part.  And you are still obligated to continue abiding by its terms
afterwards.  And vice versa.
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: alex@math.idbsu.edu (Alex Feldman)
Subject: Re: STOP Spreading Jewish Stereotypes!!
Organization: Boise State University Math Dept.
	<9212171534.AA08486@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
Date: 19 Dec 92 14:25:55

>>>>> On Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:34:17 GMT, tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller) said:

Tim> On Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:51:22 GMT, emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) said:

Tim> 	Mr. Kotler is not stable, in my opinion.

Tim> -- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
Tim> "Not by a long shot.  Mail like that is grounds for account removal; I
Tim>  should know, I'd nuke one of my users for it."

I once (some weeks before this thread began) responded to a question
of Mr. Kotler, and found him trying (I thought) to twist what I said
and drag me into a conversation I did not like.  I told him to desist
and he did, but I am still uncomfortable about the exchange.
--
	--alex			alex@math.idbsu.edu
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jonathan Pollard / Mordechai Vanunu
Date: 15 Dec 1992 01:44:06 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

In article AA12364@cyclone.sbi.com, gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler) writes:
>bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
>> <92330.1413292893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> Andy writes:

>> >Good, then you understand that the point is we shouldn't expect the US
>> >to treat Pollard any better than Israel treats Vannunu since they were both
>> >punished more for principle and as examples than for any actual damage they
>> >did
 
>> There are so many difference between the two cases that comparing the
>> sentences is almost pointless.  They weren't even charged with the
>> same offenses.  A reasonable comparison with Pollard would be an
>> Israeli caught passing secrets to the CIA.  I don't remember such a 
>> case off-hand and wouldn't expect it to be made public anyway.

>Around the time the Pollard affair became public, Senator David
>Durenberger, then head of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence,
>said that the United States changed the rules of the game by recruiting
>Israeli citizens (and military officials) to supply the U.S. with
>Israeli intelligence information, unavailable through official
>chanels.  He was blasted for that statement only on the grounds
>that he had violated American rules of confidentiality, never on
>the veracity of his statements.  A trickle of reports came out
>after that of some Israeli military officer who had done something
>comparable to Pollard's crime, but both sides kept it hushed up.

Here is everything I know about it.

   [Durenberger] "said that CIA Director Casey accepted an 
   Israeli military walk-in during the war in Lebanon in 1982.  
   It was the United States, Durenberger charged, that actually
   broke the rules of the game first, making it easier for Israel
   to later accept Pollard.
   Still, there are limits within which friendly countries are
   supposed to operate.  Durenberger was referring to a very modest,
   one-time incident, with no money changing hands.  With Pollard,
   Israel would go way beyond those limits."
   [Blitzer, Territory of Lies, p163]

>-Don Gertler

Brendan.
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Rabbi and Priest Jokes [was Re: Top Ten List]
Date: 12 Dec 92 16:51:34 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1992Dec8.180056.18091@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:
>Being a Jew, I am compelled to point out an improved version:  The Priest and
>Minister actually put in 5,000 each.  The Rabbi took out the 10,000 dollars,
>and put in a check for 15,000!

You call this an improved version?  There is one which goes beyond that.

[Quick recapitulation, lest I'm thinking of a different joke:  Three men,
say an Englishman, a Welshman and a Scot, were burying a friend.  The
Englishman and a Welshman each put a #5 note into the coffin.  The Scot
took the notes out and wrote a cheque for #15.]

The ultimate punchline:

Several days later, the cheque was cashed.

The undertaker was an Irishman.

[or whatever you want to make him for the purpose of the joke]

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Solomon Weinstein)
Subject: Re: STOP negative stereotypes of Jews!
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:07:44 GMT

You know, I have to agree absolutely that anybody who perpetuates a
stereotype (however harmless) about the Jewish people is doing nothing but 
giving ammo to anti-Semites. I have therefore decided to flame 
somebody who insists on calling us "a stiff-necked people." Does anybody 
know God's e-mail address? 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: pasward@maytag.uwaterloo.ca (Paul A.S. Ward)
Subject: Re: Israel's deportation of over 400 Palestinians
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Keywords: politics is politics; culture is culture
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:47:41 GMT

Please keep this in a politics newsgroup, say talk.politics.mideast.

Ob Jewish Culture:  Have a peaceful Sabbath)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Here we go again
Originator: schwartz@baba
Keywords: annoying messianics and missionaries
Reply-To: schwartz@nynexst.com
Organization: Expert Systems Lab., NYNEX Sci. and Tech., White Plains NY
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 19:59:03 GMT


In article <1992Dec11.191138.4735@netcom.com>, strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
> 
> In response to Sam Saal's annoyance when new missionaries show up
> here to convert us, perhaps a terse, inoffensive but firm reply
> can be constructed that will make them go away quietly.

A personal note has a much greater impact than a group posting.
472 personal notes from 472 people in one's e-mail box have 
an even greater impact.
-- 
Steven H. Schwartz		Expert Systems Laboratory
schwartz@nynexst.com		NYNEX Science and Technology Center
PROFS: SCHWARTZ@UNIX		500 Westchester Avenue
914-644-2960			White Plains NY 10604
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: VERED HAGALIL (was: Cholov Yisrael)
Date: 18 Dec 92 08:20:03 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <1gps5hINNneo@pita.cs.huji.ac.il> aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum) writes:

>I got a letter from Rav Smuel Aliyhu, the RAV of Tzfat. He 
>says that since AV 5752, all milk (and dry milk) in Vered-HaGalil
>factory is CHALV YISRAEL !!! (b4 that only most of the milk was).

How does any milk in Israel (e.g. a sack of milk from Tenuvah) fail to
be Chalav Yisrael?

A more important question is when will they make a white chocolate bar
here that doesn't contain almond flavor?
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: X Window Hebrew Fonts
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 08:22:13 GMT

There are two bdf fonts available by anonymous ftp from
israel.nysernet.org:

israel/hebrew-fonts/bdf/heb6x13.bdf.Z
israel/uploads/heb8x13B.bdf

I've used heb6x13, haven't seen heb8x13B myself.  If the second font
isn't in uploads, look in  hebrew-fonts/bdf, it may get moved there.

What I haven't figured out is how to get xterm to use it, last time I
tried I could display the font using the program that displays entire
fonts (xfont? it's been a while), but when I sent the correct char to
the display in an xterm it wouldn't display Hebrew.  That was on
x11r3, maybe the x11r4 xterm works (or can be configured to work), but
I haven't found time to bring up x11r4 yet.  Don't ask me about x11r5,
I've got SCO OpenDesktop.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Why I became an Athiest (was: frustrations with christianity)
Date: 20 Dec 92 16:37:51 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)

In article <1992Dec18.224704.7444@netcom.com>, madhaus@netcom (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
>Again, my biggest objection to Organized Religion, including Judaism, [...]

If you don't like Organized Religion, hang out at a Chabad House.  You won't
find religion more disorganized than that.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: The NYPD situation (was: Say it ain't so)
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 23:36:06 GMT

In article <BypM4v.9qv@world.std.com> srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller) writes:
>jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>
>>In article <ByI12J.MwM@world.std.com> srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller) writes:
>>>jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>>>
>>>>The unusually low regard that many minorities in NYC and elsewhere
>>>>have for their Police makes effective prosecution involving police
>>>>testimony extremely difficult.
>>>
>>>Jake, I challenge you to spend a week in the criminal courthouse
>>>on Centre Street, testing this theory.  If you still believe it
>>>after that, I'll buy you lunch.
>
>>Stevens, I challenge you to spend a week in the Rosenbaum home in
>>Melbourne and try to convince them that effective prosecution is the
>>norm for justice in the USA. (*)  If you succeed, I will buy you lunch.
>
>But Jake, I never said the Rosenbaums could be made to feel this way.
>You, however, have repeatedly asserted that police testimony can't
>yield convictions.  

I said that "effective prosecution involving police testimony [is]
extremely difficult", not impossible.  I still feel this way.

>This hurts, because clients of mine are in prison
>right now, owing to police testimony and nothing else.

If your clients have been tried and convicted, then they are in prison
because of things that they have done, not because of police
testimony.  Important point, that one.

>>I stand by my earlier statement.
>
>As is your right.  Can you support it without using the Times or
>repeating your views on the Nossair or Nelson trials?

Sure, police in the US work under very restrictive regulations and
have to have their testimony and evidence reach extremely high
standards.  The acquittal of Lemrick Nelson demonstrates this.  This
has nothing to do with my personal views on the Nelson case.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish