HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:01:04 -0400
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         droby%NOVA.TCS.TUFTS.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Isaac Asimov
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              08 Apr 92 15:57:01 EDT." <9204081759.aa07151@Nova.TCS.Tufts.EDU>

Says Don Thornton <DTHORNTN@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>:
>.                        #31988 of LISTS.WORDS-L
>.droby@NOVA.TCS.TUFTS.EDU
>.          I read one of his books on algebra (don't remember the name)
>
>_Realm of Algebra_  a fawcett crest book (pub by ballantine
>& random house in Canada)  isbn 0-449-24398-2
>
>would be my guess
>
>                -one of the quieter dons

	Bingo!

		-another quiet don (Rita will testify after tonight's
		 Cambridge Pre-Clam plotting Session)
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 14:50:40 +0200
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         torkel%SICS.SE@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: ODDS 'N' ENDS
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              14 Apr 92 07:43:29 -0500. <9204141245.AA27316@sics.se>

  Natalie explains:

  >The matter of value judgments and philosophical questions is
  >related to how we're using the word "wrong."  As I pointed out earlier
  >this morning, I'm not using it in a moral sense.  I'm using it in a
  >practical sense.

  I don't see how this clarifies matters. Perhaps you could simply start
from the beginning and explain how you know as a linguist (whatever the
definition of linguistics) that there would be nothing wrong with English
changing into a system of grunts?
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:22:28 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      The People in Cambridge
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Is anybody online right now who remembers the name of the place where
all the leather people are now gathered?  I want to call them, but I
don't know how to find the number.  I just waded through a bunch of
usenet postings searching for the one that finally named their time
and place.  Never found it.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:21:32 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Tushar Samant <tushar%ZAPHOD.UCHICAGO.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Oracularities

I was quite impressed by oracularities for some time, but soon I got bored.
(Coincedentally, that was my 20th birthday.)  I have sent exactly one question
to the oracle, and the answer I got was so disappointong that I didn't try
again.

Funnily enough, my answer to their question was thought worthy enough to
appear in the oracular digest. Although it is silly, I have still kept it.

tushar
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:40:18 MST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Dan Lester <ALILESTE%IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Isaac Asimov
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>,
              Gail Lester <gaill@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com>
              8 Apr 1992 01:13:00 EST from <TRAVEN@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>

On Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:13:00 EST The harder I work, the behinder I get said:
>
>	I've heard the same story about Ray Bradbury.  In both cases, it seems
>	a bit unbelievable.
>
   Gail is sleeping, or I would ask her.  She has to get up at 0500 to
be at work at 0600.  But I forwarded msg to her for reply at her earliest
convenience.  She did a masters paper on him, and interviewed him
extensively.  I've seen the pictures of the two of them (Gail and Ray)
with arms around each other, and of them interviewing, etc.  Wonder if
there are some she didn't show.....hmmmmm....

dan
From: gtoal@robobar.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Gleanings (38)
Date: 8 Apr 92 09:09:03 GMT
Organization: Robobar Ltd., Perivale, Middx., ENGLAND.

In article <WORDS-L%92040714392396@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU (The Ronin) writes:
>Frencheth     Anne Haycock <haycock@MARLEY.THINK.COM>
>
>Non, il s'appelle Panoramix.  Le petit chien s'appelle Idefix et le chef du
>village s'appelle Abraracourcix.  Obelix s'occupe en fabriquant des menhirs

menhirs?  You mean 'finkelstein's :-)

G
-- 
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 11:10:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN

Sayeth        Graham Toal <gtoal@ROBOBAR.CO.UK>

> This concept of rules is totally illusory - we build up our input
> and output processing mechanisms by feeding in many examples as
> we grow through childhood.  Our neural hardware adapts its configurations
> so that our outputs match those of people around us.  Seeing some
> formal rules or structures in the behaviour we exhibit is a conceit
> of the mind and a function of our continual striving to extract
> patterns in what we see - in this case higher-level patterns in
> the patterns.

     While I am far too new to PDP (Parallel Distributed Processing)
and neural networking to argue incisively about this, the above seems
a contradiction to me.  On the one hand you argue that our 'neural
hardware' adapts to the patterns around us, which to me implies the
creation of structures for deciphering input so that it can have
meaning in addition to enciphering our meanings into the proper
outputs.  But you also deny that such structures can be represented as
rules.  While I concur that the structures that are built are neither
unchanging nor deterministic, that in itself does not prohibit
describing the phenomenon with rules.

     I am not arguing for the mere sake of argument (though I will
confess to enjoying it).  If I have missed something obvious or
fundamental, please elaborate.

The Ronin
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 06:43:04 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Karen Kay <LL23%NEMOMUS.BITNET%UGA.CC.UGA.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Penmanship
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> I've noticed something odd about writing with a pen lately.  I find
> myself making "typos" (? -- I'm not sure what you call that kind of
> error when it's with a pen).

I've been calling them 'write-os' for years...but there must be a
better word.  I first noticed this phenomenon when I was in Japan
in the mid-70's  and lost r/l contrast in my writing...That's when I
knew it was time to come back.  My friends saved me letters w/ mistakes
I hadn't caught.  Language and the brain sure are complicated!:)

Karen
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:39:00 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Aaron Dickey, The Happy Spore"
 <AXD7104%NYUACF.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Interdead

Well, I think the Internet link is screwed again.  Consider this a
test message.

--Aaron
From: tushar%ZAPHOD.UCHICAGO.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU (Tushar Samant)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: flipping channels
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:13:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: zaphod.9204140513.AA08201
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

So the disease of flipping through chanels is more common than I thought.
When I visited some Indian friends in winter, there was one bloke among
them who had this habit. It exasperated me beyond bounds of tolerance, and
the reason I cut my trip short was because I did not want to inch closer to
raving lunacy. I mean, appreciating polyphonic music is all right, but wanting
to see all the shows simultaneously is a bit too much. My friend did it with
a practiced ease, and he no doubt succeeded in glorking the gist of all the
shows. All I could think of was that splicing bits of channels in that way
would make one hell of an exciting arty film, and I say this here because I
trust everyone on the list not to actually carry it out.

tushar
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:46:32 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Tushar Samant <tushar%ZAPHOD.UCHICAGO.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Was Re: whorf

Natalie said, some time ago:

>Yes, Mr. Whorf?  Are you really sure that all those fires got started
>because of the English use of the words "full" and "empty" in reference
>to gas cans, or might it have had something to do with lack of understanding
>of what causes fires rather than with the language?

and

>Right.  And to the poor Japanese who can't handle math and science.  I
>wonder if my Honda is going to fall apart on my way home because it
>was designed by people with such a strange concept of verbs. ;-)


Well, here is a good place to say this :

Whenever anyone talks about something which sounds like Whorf, it's not
necessarily this blatant. (I'd say, for instance, that addressing someone
with first name has a different effect on one's thinking than addressing
the same person as (say) "Sir".)

Similarly, if someone says that <a particular change> is deplorable, that
person is not necessarily hopelessly misguided and in urgent need of
indoctrination in descriptivism.

As another example, if someone asks, for instance, "Why did X usage change
(to something else) ?", the answer is not "because people did it." That is
well known, and might as well be assumed common knowledge. The question
merely means "Why was there a need for the usage to change ?"

In short, the obvious reformulations of such statements should be assumed
and repeated only if necessary. Most people know these things. What they
want is information.

tushar
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 10:33:27 +0200
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         torkel%SICS.SE@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: ODDS 'N' ENDS
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

    Natalie remarks:

 >As you said, this is a "value judgment, philosophical in character."  I
 >guess that's why we aren't coming to any conclusions.  Maybe we should
 >try a new tack.  Why in your mind would it be bad if English were transformed
 >into a system of grunts?

  Ah, that's a question I'll have to think about! But you'll recall that
I started this line of argument in response to your statement that you
knew "as a linguist" that there was nothing wrong with changes in grammar.
So far my only concern has been to argue that you don't know this "as
a linguist", but on the basis of a value judgment, philosophical in
character.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:51:36 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>Using language is a social act, and therefore social judgements about it are
>o.k. in my opinion....

That's good since the identification of Standard English (or the standard
dialect of any other language) is a social judgment.

>Continuing, judging from what I have heard, I can't accept your contention that
>children automatically learn the rules of grammar without effort... not the
>rules of correct grammar....

All children (except those with physical impairments like deafness) acquire
the rules of the grammar of their native language effortlessly.  The rules
that they acquire are "correct" for their dialects.  I have a feeling that
by "correct grammar" you mean your idea of what is "correct."  That is a
social/political judgment.

>I know I'll get killed for this, but I think that
>the concept of standard English is good and worth preserving.

Standard dialects exist in most languages because they serve useful
purposes and are worth preserving.  I agree that the concept of standard
dialects is good.  It simplifies lots of things.  That is not to say
that Standard English is innately any better than any other dialect of
English.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:14:28 -0400
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Czarina Rita <rita%EFF.ORG@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gleanings 38 1) Louis Mayer/Pat Riley (Ken W.)
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

>     13) Emanuel Goldstein (Ken W.)
>
>Emanuel Goldstein is the name of a man who runs a talk show on Pacifica
>Radio's WBAI affiliate in New York.  It's about telephones, computers,
>hacking, and privacy issues.  I suspect that "Emanuel Goldstein" is a
>pseudonym, and that whoever he really is, he named himself after the
>mythological insurgent in Orwell's _1984_.

        Yes, it is a pseudonym.  I even know what his real name is.  As
 a matter of fact, I met him in DC a couple weeks back.  Interesting man..

Rita
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:10:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         AXD7104%NYUACF.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Tarmac rugrats

Adam--

Actually, just this morning I received in the mail a delicious example of
divine retribution against the smegheads of my youth.  My mother mailed me a
clipping from my hometown newspaper, which was explaining in laborious detail
the city's new downtown parking policies.  The picture accompanying the article
showed one of the city's meter...uh, "men" using a new handheld computer to
check for unpaid tickets on an illegally-parked car.  The guy in the picture
was my worst enemy from 7th-9th grade.  My mother also wrote of some details
she's learned of his life recently, which I won't post since they're really
heartwrenching (and I certainly wouldn't want to be accused of gaining
happiness from other's suffering), but suffice it to say, I think I won in the
end.

How I love the way my mother looks out for me.

--Aarn
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 09:18:48 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Judith Schrier <PRIMATE%BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Tarmac rugrats
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

>I was tormented quite a bit as a child.  However, I have recently discovered
>that one of the reasons that I was tormented was because I believed that
>what the children were saying to me was right...long before I even got
>into school.  A part of me feels like if I'm not perfect, then I am not
>worth living.         Any suggestions for books pertaining to acceptance
>of mediocrity?             LJG
Lisa, Sweetheart, just hanging on in WORDS-L is ultimate proof
of your superiority to just about everybody else in the world.
We are all brave, beautiful, brilliant, and just plain *NICE*.

*MY* words-kids is the best kids what there ARE!

love, judith, list-mama
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:48:11 -0500
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Nancy Harwood <harwood%TENET.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      English geeks (was Re: in-jokes and such)
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

> >(BTW, my undergrad degree was in math, but I am a librarian (altho
> > I'm not working in a traditional librarian position), so where do
> > I fit in the headcount?)
>
>         I dunno.  I'm an associate editor, so I don't fit in at all.
> Or maybe I fit in with the English geeks.  Does Natalie head up that
> category?
>
> Rita

Besides Natalie, the English geeks goddess...that doesn't sound right...
Natalie, goddess of the English geeks (better)...how many other EGs are
there?  I've heard a lot about librarians and economists and
mathematicians, but very little about English people.
ndh
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Original_cc:  WHITERJ
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:35:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: nouns

Offereth      torkel@SICS.SE

>   Well, I guess that is so. But the fact should not be bruited about, if it
> prompts people to awful puns. (All puns are awful.)

     Then how do you withstand reading this list?  I thought that puns
were a requirement.

The Ronin
From: gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Gleanings (38)
Date: 10 Apr 92 07:59:16 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <WORDS-L%92040919352873@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU (The Ronin) writes:
:Asketh        Graham Toal <gtoal@CASTLE.ED.AC.UK>
:
:> Well, I'm *always* getting into trouble by ending sentences with propositions.
:
:     What else would one end a sentence with?  My rules say that
:ending a senetnce with a preposition frequently leads to a sentence
:with multiple parsings (Sorry, no examples off the top of my head),
:but that it isn't a sin.  Just as using the passive voice isn't a sin,
:just sometimes inappropriate.  (Have never been able to convince my
:sister of this.  She *KNOWS* that passive voice is bad English.  I
:can't get through to her that if ti really is bad, how did it get into
:the language?)
:
:The Ronin


Read what I said more carefully this time.

G
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Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 10:49:01 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Carol Goodson <CGOODSON%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitnet or Internet Words-L?
              10 Apr 1992 22:40:40 CDT from <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

Internet is far, far faster and more efficient than bitnet
>most of the time.  UGA has a problem that I thought had been solved
>this morning.  It came back tonight, however.  My internet mail from
>UGA is being delayed by a couple of hours, although my internet mail
>TO UGA is getting there promptly -
Things are definitely screwed up right now.

Maybe there's really something to that SURANET maintenance they will be
doing on Monday 4/13....a computer tuneup
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X-VMS-Cc: AHARTFIE
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:50:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Adam M Hartfield <AHARTFIE%DREW.DREW.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Odder and Odder
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>
>Okay I'll pick up the gauntlet on this one: Why is it more awful when
>Arthur Ashe has AIDS than when anyone else does?
>
>(this seems to be the politically correct response these days, consider
>me your daily Devil's Advocate).
>
>Sir Steve, former Canadian

I don't consider myself politically correct, but I was going to ask
the same question.  I really couldn't believe all the hoopla that was
made over Magic Johnson having AIDS as opposed to the thousands of
other people that have it...what made me especially upset is how the
media was saying what a tragedy it was, and yet didn't say anything
about the other AIDS sufferers.

--Prof H.
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 00:24:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Adam M Hartfield <AHARTFIE%DREW.DREW.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: TV
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>didn't correct me!  I'm suspicious of people who buy the real TV Guide.
>I think what they really want to do is read about the soaps.
>   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)

Hmph.  The reason I buy the real TV Guide is because our bookstore
doesn't carry any daily papers for sale (you can get them, but you
have to have a subscription), and it's too far of a hike into town
for just a paper.

And I don't buy it for the soaps.  I buy it for the program
descriptions.  Sometimes I even do the crossword in pen.

--Adam
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:53:36 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: tarmac rugrats
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

Can I still come to the clambake even though I was not teased or tormented
as a child?
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
From: gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: WORDS-L in Cambridge
Date: 10 Apr 92 08:42:05 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <199204100114.AA04119@eff.org> rita%EFF.ORG@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU (Rita Marie Rouvalis) writes:
>expected him to.  Lisa Alfieri surprised me a bit -- pleasantly.
>From her postings I didn't expect her to be nearly so attractive
>both physically and personality-wise.

You swine!  Talking about fainting with damned praise...

> Mama Primate is now the
>official words-l Harley Mama.  What an outfit!  Jim Bradley I

Yeah - my kinda woman :-)  [So should I leave the Nutella at home
and bring the Dubbin instead?]

G
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 11:34:06 MST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Dan Lester <ALILESTE%IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Seattle Mariners
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              6 Apr 1992 13:09:49 GMT from
              <DBFABAK%CFRVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:09:49 GMT <DBFABAK%CFRVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu> said:
>Well, those poor, pitiful souls in St. Petersburg sure missed it.  They
>thought the Mariners would some day occupy the big, empty Sun Coast Dome.

Gee, Sun Coast Dome is an almost-oxymoron....what the hell do you
need a dome for there?  Can't they just sell the sunscreen and mosquito
repellent at the concession, along with the pennants and beer and dogs?

dan
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
From: bayla@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bayla Singer)
Subject: Re: nouns
Organization: Independent scholar
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 11:56:08 GMT


idempotent? IDEMPOTENT? Leave it to G to bring everything round to sex!

--Bayla
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 23:35:18 -0500
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Nancy Harwood <harwood%TENET.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Something Meaningful and Profound
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Tue, 7 Apr 1992, Anne Harwell wrote:

> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 09:27:56 CDT>
> Nancy,,
> "jones" is slang for withdrawal pains.
>
> -abh

Anne,
This is very interesting...Anne Diffily's response to this and your
response to her came in hours ago...this came in sometime between 11:15
and 11:30 p.m.  Another mystery.
ndh
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