HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Kevlar vests to be made COMPULSORY for pedestrians in NZ
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:46:47 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <pplane.21.722027597@massey.ac.nz>, news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System) writes:
> In article <58sis-b@massey.ac.nz> N.Perry@massey.ac.nz  
> 
> 
> I am sure there are other examples of laws that require people to protect 
> themselves from the action of others.
> 

I actually wear some kind of skull protector pretty much all the time. Since I
was 16 I have been a firm advocate of the "protect yourself from everyone else
at all times, and yourself" line on life. I've avoided small cuts and bumps to
the head caused by things like knocking into open kitchen cupboards, bumps from
lying down on a bed and accidentally hitting the window ledge, walking into
doors, walls, power poles and other dangerous immovable objects. I believe very
firmly that the day is not far off that all people should take precautions to
wear some kind of skull restraint protector, whether it be a crash helmet, bike
helmet, sports helmet or a good old fashioned jersey or towell wrapped around
the bonce, just like the old one I had when I first realized how crucial it is
to leading a happy and safe life BY PROTECTING YOURSELF. OK, so some people may
look twice at you as you swim or jog wearing a crash helmet but remember, at
least you are SAFE in the event of an ACCIDENT. Ask them if they've ever
knocked into the side of a swimming pool when frolicking innocently in the
water on a hot summers day, and I'll bet they'll soon stop haranguing and start
to LISTEN. 
I think from wearing a skull protection device like the ones I'm talking about,
its only a small step to getting into more comfortable and safe wear for
daywear on the rest of the body. Although I'm not too comfortable with it at
present I have been trying out shin pads and kevlar gloves for use around the
home and, as we know, its only a small step over the front hearth from there
into the big old (and very dangerous!) world. 
So do what I do, think SAFE, go on say it to yourself now, SAFE, thats right,
SAFE. Think, HAPPY, think PROTECTION, wrap up, keep warm and smile.

If there are any others out there, maybe that feel or do the same things that I
do, why don't we get together and try and CHANGE the status quo. My mum used to
say that you really can make a difference and CHANGE things if you've a mind
to. So come on lets do something about this, lets work to protect people from
themselves and others, RIGHT NOW. E-mail me.
-- 
Tommy (gee its hard typing in these gloves)
From: mrichardson@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: US Gun Lobbyist Visits
Date: 21 Nov 92 12:18:00 -0500
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University

In article <1992Nov21.113352.1101@acme.gen.nz>, kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I) writes:
> derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) writes:
> 
> 
>> Is there a serious attempt to do this?  I don't think there can be any 
>> possible justification for handguns or semi-automatic weapons to be 
>> freely available. I have yet to hear anyone come up with one either.
> 
> <sarcasm alert>
> 
> Semi-automatic weapons?!?! Oh no?! The horror!!!
> 
> <sarcasm off>
> 
> Hands up if anyone here actually has a clue what a semi-automatic rifle is.
> 
> 							- k
> -- 
> Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
> "Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"

Ooh! Miss! Miss!  I know! I know!  And I don't think any reason in 
support of them (e.g. more effective bunny killing) even comes close 
to the myriad of reasons against them (e.g. more effective people 
killing by the anti-social, easy conversion, in some cases, to fully 
automatic and thus even easier people killing and so on.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: klovatt@klnet.UUCP (Keith Lovatt)
Subject: Re: Kevlar vests to be made COMPULSORY for pedestrians in NZ
Organization: Lugroid Enterprises
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:37:06 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

USENET News System (news@massey.ac.nz) wrote:
: (I should point out that I am an experienced London UK cyclist and
: have been involved in serious accidents. I do not think people should
: not wear helmets [though their protection is not very much and they
: give a certain amount of false security]. It is interesting to note
: that my 5 year old son never thought of cycling as dangerous when we
: lived in London, despite the tales of near disaster and the accidents.
: A short while after coming to Palmerston North, a small town of merely
: 70K compared to the 6M of London and much quieter roads, he decided
: that cycling was dangerous after the barrage of propaganda which
: results in children wearing helmets when riding around the garden!)

So, do you think no cranial protection is better than "not very much"? How
about if your son fell off his bike and sustained a head injury. Would you
expect the government to finance the hospital costs? I'm sure you would.
Isn't it only fair that the gov't wants you to spend a few dollars for a
helmet, and possibly save the rest of the taxpayers thousands?

By the way, do you have rubber walls and rocks in your garden? My garden
rocks seem just as hard as those outside my property.
-- 
Keith Lovatt                 	|	Scarborough, Ontario, Canada
r-node.gts.org!klnet!klovatt	|	Phone: +1 416 293 0292
doe.utoronto.ca!klnet!klovatt	|    "You can never find a Lugroid
(A Kiwi in Canada)		|	when you really need one"
Xref: sparky soc.culture.new-zealand:3019 soc.culture.australian:4862
From: maj@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,soc.culture.australian
Subject: US Gun Lobbyist Visits
Date: 20 Nov 92 09:33:04 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

Has anyone any reactions to the US gun lobby's efforts to 
link up with their local counterparts to turn Australia and 
New Zealand into places where handguns and semi-automatic
weapons may be freely obtained?
-- 
Murray A. Jorgensen [ maj@waikato.ac.nz ]    University of Waikato
Department of Mathematics and Statistics     Hamilton, New Zealand      
__________________________________________________________________
'Tis the song of the Jubjub! the proof is complete,
if only I've stated it thrice.'
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Health Care etc....
From: Mary.Curtin@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 10:20:04 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange

In article <1992Nov20.040013.17435@mis.mi04.zds.com> gkozak@mis.mi04.zds.com (george m kozak) writes:

> What are the current GST/Income/Property tax rates in NZ?  Are they stifling

GST - 12.5% on everything - or rather every good or service .... but
there are some folks who don't have to levy it 'cos their turnover is
too small ...

Personal:  24% on the first 30,000   33% after that.   But if you are
a low income earner, effectively 15% on the first 9000.

Property tax - called rates - levels vary markedly around the country.

-- 
\   \/   /  |  
 \/\/\/\/   |  mary.curtin@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
From: ajackson@cs.ubc.ca (Ann Jackson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Beware the push bikers
Date: 19 Nov 1992 06:08:30 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: shiner.cs.ubc.ca

In article <1992Nov19.143643.12320@waikato.ac.nz>, bill@waikato.ac.nz writes:
|> In article <1eekpiINNmv3@golem.wcc.govt.nz>, bennett_w@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (William Francis Bennett) writes:
|> > In article <1992Nov19.115737.12309@waikato.ac.nz>, bill@waikato.ac.nz writes:

|> > I conjecture that it takes almost as long when driving in a new
|> >>country or city to get used to the road patterns. And it'll take
|> >>quite a bit longer before you feel comfortable with it. 
|> > 
|> > Fair comment - but I've been here nearly six years.
|> 
|> I would have said it would take 20 years at least.
|> 
|> Bill Teahan
|> - Who's travelled 115,000 km's on back-country New Zealand roads in the
|>   last four years, and the car looks it.

Oh c'mon Bill, does it take 20 years to get comfortable driving in the first
place? I've only been a licensed driver for about 16 years myself but I felt
pretty comfortable after about a month driving around the South Island a couple
of years ago. By your criterion I shouldn't even be comfortable driving in
Vancouver, where I have resided almost continuously since getting a license.

Ann Jackson
Another Kiwi in Canada
From: bennett_w@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (William Francis Bennett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Beware the push bikers
Date: 18 Nov 1992 08:48:03 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
Reply-To: bennett_w@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

All this talk of cycle helmets reminds me of a pet groan: the general level of
driving skills in New Zealand. Frankly, Kiwi drivers are worse than Italians or
even the French.

Now before I'm flamed to medium rare let's qualify my statement.

About six months after arriving in New Zealand, I got into a heated debate on
this subject with a bunch of journalists one night after work in the pub. They
had a number of excuses to hand (a bit too quickly to hand too if you ask me).

Ah yes, they said, but our roads are particularly difficult. Have you seen the
driving conditions? And a myriad of other assorted nonsense.

The most memorable arguement was that Kiwis drive so much further than other
nations, so they are bound to have accidents.

I pointed out that the roads were a sight emptier here than in say, London.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, the following day some statistics appeared
in the newspaper office from the MOT. They said that Kiwis are five times as
likely to be involved in a fatal accident for every mile driven as the European
average. A few days later some stats from an insurance company said much the
same. In other words, its true - driving is more dangerous here.

The apologists started trying to explain this. Oh, but we have so many drunk
drivers, they said as if that was some kind of badge of pride.
 
Maybe. But the drink drive limit is low here. Poms drive drunk all the time, in
mediterranean countries drunk driving seems compulsory.
 
Now, after five years in New Zealand I know the reasons. Put an average Kiwi
behind the wheel of the car and something like the special effects scene in Dr
Jekyll and Mr Hyde takes place. Mild mannered people become demons. Kiwi
drivers aren't just rude, they are positively suicidal. Even close friends have
scared me to death giving me a lift across town.

Ok. I know this won't make me popular in Netland. But really this is a national
problem of the first water. Road accidents are the major killer of young men.
So short of banning cars what do you think should be done?

**** HOLD THE FRONT PAGE **** EX-PAT POM JOURNO IN KIWI LOVE NEST SAGA **** 
                                                                              
William Francis Bennett                  | You cannot hope to bribe or twist, 
BENNETT_W@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz             | Thank God!, The British Journalist
PO Box 2613, Wellington, New Zealand     | But seeing what that man will do
Fax: 64/4/499-3431                       | Unbribed, there's no occasion to.
_____________________________________________________________________________       
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System)
Subject: Re: Kevlar vests to be made COMPULSORY for pedestrians in NZ
Followup-To: soc.culture.new-zealand
Organization: SMIS, Massey University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 00:06:10 GMT

In soc.culture.nz, Nigel Perry wrote:

> Cycling is not an inherently dangerous activity (certain types might
> be, such as racing, but general cycling is not). As such people should
> not be forced to protect themselves, though if they wish to they may,
> as it violates a fundamental principle that people should be protected
> from injury by others (or from their own activities). NO OTHER section
> of society is forced to protect themselves from injury in this way.

OK, so we've already gone through this at morning tea on Friday, BUT...

Sure they do.  The closest comparision is with motorcycles, which until
around '75 didn't require the compulsory wearing of helmets.  I can reach
50+km/h on my bicycle in favourable conditions, so that puts me at just as
much risk as a motorcycle, probably more considering that a push bike is
harder to see.

The trouble is that, although some people might be capable of deciding what
is an appropriate level of risk, others (probably in the majority) are not.
 By an appropriate level, I mean one which does not place society as a
whole at an unreasonably high risk of needing to support persons with head
injuries.  Never mind for the moment who pays for it -- society ends up
paying in the end.

--
Phil Etheridge               P.Etheridge@massey.ac.nz
Macintosh Consultant         Phone: +64+6-356-9099 x8689
SMIS, Massey University      Fax:   +64+6-350-5611
Palmerston North, NZ         40*23'S 175*37'E,    GMT+13
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,soc.culture.australian
From: pjr@splash.Princeton.EDU (Peter Rayner)
Subject: Re: US Gun Lobbyist Visits
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:17:39 GMT

Might I just insert a gentle warning here.  If anyone cross-posts an
article on this thread to one of the guns newsgroups I will personally
seek them out and strangle them ... gently of course 8-)   I don't
know if the scnz got a shrapnel wound from last year's fiasco but sca
was unbearable -- things just kept slipping through my kill file.  So
please, a fine topic for discussion but let's keep the
talk.politics.guns (which should have  usa appended) out of it.
-- 
Peter Rayner Program in Oceanic           | "All right, I retract, the 
and Atmospheric Sciences Princeton        | Honourable Member does *not* have
University                                | the brains of a monkey." F.Daly
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: rcpolloc@athena.mit.edu (Robert C Pollock)
Subject: Re: Beware the push bikers
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:36:30 GMT

I would have to agree RE:NZ drivers.  They SUCK.

Everybody around Boston says Boston drivers are bad... but coming from
NZ I think they're downright courteous.  At least to pedestrians.  I
still have to get used to cars actually stopping to let you cross the
road.  When I went to Otago Uni, cars would ACCELERATE.

Rob P.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Beware the push bikers
From: dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz (Kennelmeister)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 13:21:21 +1300
Organization: The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)
Summary: Bodgies

bennett_w@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (William Francis Bennett) writes:

> And while we're on the subject. Who are thos homicidal maniacs with black
> jumpers, short hair on top and long hair at the back. Some of them drive old
> holdens or fords.

Bodgies. Also known as Westies and/or Hoons. ( See Away Laughing on TV3 )
They are almost exclusively Pakeha.

distinguishing characteristics:

Black jerseys and haircuts as mentioned above
Cars as mentioned above. Usually have more primer than actual paint,
wide back tyres and no brakes.

Very young girlfriends ( ie: Not necessarily of legal age )

Found at Heavy Metal/Hard Rock concerts, public bars, and certain
provincial nightclubs.

Will pass anything, anywhere, anytime while driving. If a car is
spotted on the horizon, will speed up so that they can pass it - have
been known to try overtaking low flying aircraft...

> I ask because twice now as I've driven over the Rimutuka Hill road some of
> these loonies have past me on the inside after driving three inches behind my
> rear bumper for a mile or two. Heck, I usually drive 20k over the speed limit
> but that ain't fast enough for these bozos.

They were heading for home. Most bodgies live in the provinces.

Concentrations of them have been observed in Masterton, Palmerston North,
Eketahuna, Napier, Gisborne, Tauranga, Whakatane ( The usual Chrismastime
haunt) New Plymouth, Hamilton, Rotorua, Taupo, Nelson, Timaru, Invercargill,
Gore, and West Auckland (The latter being the infamous "Westie" clan).

Do NOT attempt to race a bodgie, especially if you have a new car - if
you win, they may attempt to run you off the road in a jealous rage.

> Scary.

True. But then again, you should meet their mothers......



Alan B                           "Well, we were just laying there
Dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz        And this ghost of your other lover walked in
Dawghaus BBS +64 6 357-9245       And stood there.
Palmerston North, New Zealand     Made of thin air. Full of desire..

...Why these mountains? Why this sky? This long road? This empty room?"
                                                        - Laurie Anderson
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Mistakes in scnz faq (unofficial)
Date: 19 Nov 92 18:21:03 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1992Nov19.124219.215@otago.ac.nz>,
roger@otago.ac.nz (Roger Grauwmeijer) writes:
> In article <1992Nov17.122316.662@fri.cri.nz>, wakelins@fri.cri.nz writes:
> > Buzzy Bees are still being made (albeit in a factory outside Shanghai).
> 
> The last Buzzy Bee I bought, about three months ago
> for a friends child in Canada, WAS made in NZ!
> I can't recall where, but I distinctly remember noting the fact.

And did it have wooden wings?
Think, Roger, think!
This is important.
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*poot* (Scot.) v.i. to shoot at young partridges or young grouse"
-- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Beware the push bikers
From: thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 19:30:14 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <1992Nov21.183630.20051@athena.mit.edu> rcpolloc@athena.mit.edu (Robert C Pollock) writes:
>I would have to agree RE:NZ drivers.  They SUCK.
>
>Everybody around Boston says Boston drivers are bad... but coming from
>NZ I think they're downright courteous.  At least to pedestrians.  I
>still have to get used to cars actually stopping to let you cross the
>road.  When I went to Otago Uni, cars would ACCELERATE.

I wonder what I do wrong.

I don't own a car, but seem to find that people stop at pedestrain
crossings. The also generally refrain from trying to run me down at
other times too.

When I'm out on my bicycle, it seems that people do try and avoid me.
They also wait for me at intersections when it's my right of way. I
have even seen them give way to me when they didn't have to.

Oh well, I guess they'll learn.
-- 
    Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz           Work: 64 4 233 8186
Datamark Intl Ltd | thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz     Home: 64 4 499 3832
 Technical Writer |   Be kind to me, I think I'm suffering from angst.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Beware the push bikers
From: bennett_w@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (William Francis Bennett)
Date: 23 Nov 1992 07:49:14 GMT
Reply-To: bennett_w@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
 <1992Nov21.183630.20051@athena.mit.edu>,<1992Nov22.193014.45450@datamark.co.nz>
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz


In article <1992Nov22.193014.45450@datamark.co.nz>, thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle) writes:
>
>I wonder what I do wrong.
>
>I don't own a car, but seem to find that people stop at pedestrain
>crossings. The also generally refrain from trying to run me down at
>other times too.

You probably give off some mystical aura - or you don't live in Wellington. :-)

Last weekend I nearly got creamed twice while driving through green traffic
lights. It seems that many drivers now deem stopping at Red to be purely
optional. 

The second time I was almost hit the jerk (who had gone through a red light)
had the nerve to scream at me! 
>
>When I'm out on my bicycle, it seems that people do try and avoid me.
>They also wait for me at intersections when it's my right of way. I
>have even seen them give way to me when they didn't have to.
>
Perhaps its the semi-automatic rifle you are carrying or the plutonium they
just happen to know is in your saddle bag en route to a recycling (get it!)
plant.

>Oh well, I guess they'll learn.
>-- 

Believe me Tom, this city is like deathrace 2000 day in day out. 

BTW: how do I post my text file of accident stats here? Any ideas?


**** HOLD THE FRONT PAGE **** EX-PAT POM JOURNO IN KIWI LOVE NEST SAGA **** 
                                                                              
William Francis Bennett                  | You cannot hope to bribe or twist, 
BENNETT_W@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz             | Thank God!, The British Journalist
PO Box 2613, Wellington, New Zealand     | But seeing what that man will do
Fax: 64/4/499-3431                       | Unbribed, there's no occasion to.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Kevlar vests to be made COMPULSORY for pedestrians in NZ
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:28:20 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <1992Nov18.171627.12286@waikato.ac.nz> hist1261@waikato.ac.nz writes:
 
>Lowest common denominator legislation, what a wonderful idea!  Some people
>can't handle alcohol, let's bring back prohibition!  

No, but the zero blood alcohol when driving seems to work in Sweden.  
Especially if coupled with large fines.  OK so lowest common denominator 
legislation sucks - BUT - there are a lot of people alive today who would 
have not made it through that accident unscathed.  Sometimes legislation has
to be made in order to generate an attitude adjustment.  After a while the
people involved will convince themselves that they wanted to wear that 
seatbelt/helmet anyway.

>Some people are attracted to the same gender and are helping spread a 
>nasty disease, let's recriminalise homosexuality!  

If that nasty disease is the one called AIDS.  It is a HETEROSEXUAL disease.
If you think you're safe because your Hetero and not a drug user you haven't
been paying attention.

In fact we should make the use of condoms compulsory to protect the 
ignorant.

No wait - perhaps that is going too far...



-- 
Derek Tearne.   --   derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz   --    Fujitsu New Zealand   -- 
Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental
consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor.  
"If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NZ UFO reports in mainstream press, 1989?
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 19:17:05 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <1992Nov16.022727.11619@nwnexus.WA.COM> markmc@halcyon.com (Mark McWiggins) writes:
>An acquaintance mentioned something about a bizarre series of UFO
>reports coming out of New Zealand in 1989, allegedly including guys
>wearing "USAF" jumpsuits getting out of a crash-landed craft.
>
>Does this ring a bell for anyone? If so, could you post a summary and/or
>pointers to the relevant press accounts?

The only ones I remember in 1989 were a couple of guys in Auckland with a 
rather large triangular kite!

If they had USAF jumpsuits someone would have noticed and asked them if they
were carrying muclear weapons before letting them land.  If they had 
replied 'we will not confirm or deny...' or possibly 'fvarswiggle bloamsnigit
waisnddneepoark vlapstreui' we would have sent them on their way.


-- 
Derek Tearne.   --   derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz   --    Fujitsu New Zealand   -- 
Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental
consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor.  
"If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said.