From: johnsd2@lib102.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Need to convince boss 486's are *not* w
Reply-To: johnsd2@lib102.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:30:20 GMT

In article 1165@qb.rhein-main.de, vhs@rhein-main.de (Volker Herminghaus-Shirai) writes:
>In article <3gg359q@rpi.edu> johnsd2@vccnw04.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman  
>Johnson) writes:
>[stuff deleted]
>> >Display Postscript - well, what more need be said?
>> 
>> What he would want to do with it. It is supposed to be slow, and
>> he isn't doing any graphics work to speak of. So what's he want this
>> for?
>
>DPS is the opposite of slow. PS has acquired a reputation of slowness
>because it was used on very high resolution devices when CPUs were slow
>and memory was expensive. I have yet to see a more responsive window
>system than the NeXT's. (You seem to know the NeXT just from the rags)

I have use them, but never for long. They seem slow, but this
could be any number of things (say, not having enough RAM.)

>[stuff deleted]
>> >Workspace Manager - keeps track of programs, mouse clicks, etc.
>> 
>> Matter of taste. I much prefer the Finder.
>
>Ever tried doing something else while you format a floppy, have an alert
>popped up or something?

Which has nothiing to do with the Finder, but with pre-emptive multitasking
(or the lack thereof) and the abundency of apps that overuse (or just
plain use at all) modal dialog boxes.

> There are *no* alert panels from any application
>that block other applications on the NeXT.

None?

Sounds limiting, but its better than too many.

> There used to be on Macs pre-7,
>don't know about now.

They still are there.

> Also you have shelves to temporarily store files
>on,

And we have folders. Wheeeeeeee.

> and interprocess services (one application's facilities can be used
>by any other application transparently. Sort of an automatic publish-
>and-subscribe of facilities. Not available anywhere else, and probably
>one of the most useful features in Workspace.

It certainly is. Apple events can do something liek that, but very
few applications use the ability, and its not anywhere near as
standard as on the NeXT. I think Window's OLE can do much the same thign
tho.

[deletia- that silly login screen thing]
>> >>>>Changing the login screen is an unsupported operation?
>
>It's not unsupported, but it's limited to the super-user. It is generally
>assumed that if you are self-confident enough to log in as a super-user,
>you know what you're doing. It is not possible to delete any system files
>if you are logged in as the default user, which you should.

There is no reason for it to be so touchy. It should be able to login
without the login tiff.

>[more stuff deleted]
>> >>I mean, sure the MacOS has its own flaws.. but this is a really really
>> >>trivial thing to have kill the machine. It seems excessive, unreasonable,
>> >>and very Unix like. :)
>
>Simply put, you cannot (or almost not) kill or crash a UNIX machine
>unless you have higher privileges than the normal user if the UNIX
>machine is properly set up.

I know.

> NeXTs come properly set up out of the box.
>You switch them on, and after booting you are automatically logged in
>as user "me", with no possibility to destroy the system.

Good.

> If you are
>daring enough to switch to "system maintenance mode" (i.e. log in as
>superuser, it's definitely your own fault.

Whose fault it is hardly matters.

> After all, somebody *must*
>be able to change the system configuration if this becomes necessary,
>so one can't get rid of allowing higher privileges to some logins.

That is no excuse for this sort of thing.

>> >Luckily, day to day work doesn't cause NeXTSTEP to crash, unlike some
>> >other <cough> OS's.  Unix is very nice in that regard.  Changing the
>> >login window is really very trivial.  Really. :)
>
>Right. As superuser, say
>	dwrite loginwindow ImageFile <YourImagePathName>

Right.

So why is it possible to prevent the machine for login in
by doing it wrong?

>[...]
>> >It's very stable.  NeXT has done some custom chrome under the hood
>> >that's not quite standard, but crashing the machine like that is 
>> >like pressing all the buttons in an airplaine cockpit.
>> 
>> This is a little inaccurate- this sort of stuff happens if you delete one
>> file on the NeXT, from what I am hearing. And the NeXT does nothing
>> to even warn you, never mind recover.
>
>"You" can't delete the file. The superuser can't. You shouldn't be
>super-user if you don't know what you're doing.

The superuer can't? Im confused.

But in any case claiming that the user "shouldn't have been doing that"
is no excuse at all. He- one of them anyway- DID that.

>> >>>>
>> >>>>> > Our machine still doesn't boot without typing bsd. The NeXT  
>answerline said
>> >>>>> >it was a bad controller card. Our NeXT dealer says there is no such  
>thing.
>> >>>>> >No one has a solution.
>
>OK, to the guy who posted the above paragraph:
>From the ROM monitor, type 'p'<CR> to get into the EEPROM setup. When
>prompted for the "boot comand", enter 'bsd'<CR>.
>This should do the trick. Let me know if this doesn't work and I'll assist
>you in getting it up again.

What a mess! Oh well, better'n most unixes anyway.

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

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