From: frank@austin.ibm.com (F. Karner)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,soc.men,alt.dads-rights
Subject: Re: Biological Reasons fo
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:44:23 GMT
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division
Originator: frank@karner.austin.ibm.com


In article <1e9108INNlmu@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com>, regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes:
> In article <BxsMAv.93I@ddsw1.mcs.com> karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger) writes:
> 
> >I suppose then that you won't mind if all of us men who see it as terribly
> >unequal that women can choose AFTER sex whether or not to have a child,
> >while we cannot, make damn sure you LOSE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE.
> 
> Ah, here's another one, Will.
> 
> This fellow isn't out to equalize the situation between parents.  He's out
> to take away a woman's bodily autonomy because he can't get a legal 'out'
> to a biological reality.
> 
Adrienne, 

You are missing the point completely.  There simply is no legal recourse
for a man out of a forced fatherhood situation.  No matter what that
situation might be.  Take for instance, the case of a predatory woman
using the child as a vehicle for extortion.  Even in the most favorable
cases the courts are incapable of divesting the unwilling father from
parenting responsibilities, or forcing termination of the pregnancy.

This occurrence is more prevalent than you think.  I remember the story
in Newsweek earlier this year (think), of a woman with demonstrable  
premeditation, getting a young man drunk at a party, having sex, then
dissapearing, and 9 months later presenting junior to the astonished
wallet.  According to the man's mother (author of the article in "My
Turn"), this woman was a total stranger, and was out for some measure
of financial security for herself in the form of support for the child.
After paternity was disputed and confirmed, the child's mother asked the
court to deny visitation by the father and his family on the grounds
that "he didn't want the child in the first place."   The judge ruled in
her favor.
On a more personal note, my brother was victimized in a similar
fashion, and my ex-wife removed her IUD, without my knowledge,
unilaterally, with the express purpose of becoming pregnant against
my wishes.  She claimed the pregnancy was due to a "failure" of the
contraceptive, and the truth only surfaced when I called the
gynecologist.  

How many women are out there making babies to prevent or discourage men
from leaving them?  I think that one can understand these desperate
tactics, but certainly not condone them since they have no moral basis
to stand on.  The targets are usually victimized by breach of promise,
deception, betrayal, and extortion, with NO LEGAL OUTS.  If we want to
hold the parties accountable AFTER conception, doesn't it also make
sense to extend this criterion BEFORE?  I mean, doesn't the
circumstances that LEAD to this condition need not be examined and
considered accordingly?  You honestly wish to make me believe that ANY
behavior by a woman is fair, and it's just the dumb man's fault (all
of it!) and his bad luck, as it were, for making her pregnant?  Come on,
there is responsibility involved, from beginning to end, for both!  The
inequity stems from conveniently ignoring that it was the woman's too,
before she got pregnant.

We have a situation here were crime is not only NOT PUNISHED, but not
even frowned upon by society.  In these cases, the basest form of
extortion, the use and abuse of an innocent child, is perpetrated with
total impunity.

Since the victims are by and large, educated, professional men - I mean,
there is no point in trying to extract monies from the indigent
unemployed, right? - would you care to guess how these men would tend to
approach reproductive issues?  While at it, why don't you think of the
long term effect that this tendency will have in future social and
demographic distributions?

-- 

         DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in this posting are mine
            solely and do not represent my employer in any way.
       F. A. Karner AIX Technical Support | karner@austin.vnet.ibm.com
Newsgroups: talk.abortion