From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice)
Subject: Re: Russians Release '69 KGB Blackmail Film of Clinton in Drug Orgy...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 20:47:00 GMT

ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes...
>

>b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice)...
>>

>>Since Brave-Bill isn't telling one way or the other, why 
>>shouldn't I believe he's been compromised??
>>
>Perhaps because the accusations are so ludicrous that he feels 
>they aren't worth responding to?

So it comes down to a matter of trust.

>>I wouldn't trust him in a fire-fight, why should I believe 
>>the best of him or give him the benefit of the doubt?
>>
>Innocent until proven guilty, remember?  Or don't you recognize
>the constitution?

If we were discussing criminal prosecution, yes.

Am I supposed to put faith in Brave-Bill because of his "vacation?"

John Kennedy had back problems to remind him of the PT-109 incident.

Bob Dole has a useless arm from shell fragments which shattered 
vertebra when he was leading an attack on a German machine gun nest.

Bob Kerrey has a prosthetic leg from a grenade blast where he led
an attack on an Viet Cong Bunker, and still continued to direct
the charge till the medivac'd him.

Jim Stockdale had his leg broken twiced and can't raise an arm
because of the beating and torture the Viet Cong gave him since
was one of the leaders of the POW resistance.

And Brave-Bill-Clinton lead anti-war protest while at college
and in Britain. The emotional wounds he suffered required R&R
in Moscow & Prague, I reckon. 

What did he do that I should put faith in him? 

Where is the evidence of his leadership -- if he only played 
a minor role in the peace-movement?

What makes this favored son a leader, who went off to college 
in Europe complete with 40 day vacations, instead of taking a 
front role in the peace movement, or joining with his countrymen 
to fight?

It's pretty slick -- just standing on the side lines out of the 
fray, with a token effort now and again to express anti-war sym-
pathy. That's what I'm hearing now -- he was not an organizer,
nor a leader of the peace movement. Nor was he a leader in Viet Nam.

So when the call for leadership came -- did he just take a vacation?

>>Bill Clinton's background and personality fits a pattern
>>that foreign intelligence agencies would have tried to 
>>exploit.
> 
>Evidence, EVIDENCE!!  Even his primary accuser, Robert Dornen, 
>says she has no proof, he just "feels it in his gut"...

This is not a trial. It's a matter of trust.

>> Why should I believe [he wasn't compromised] -- if he won't
>>tell us about his "vacation" from Oxford to Moscow and
>>other parts of the Soviet Union??

>... maybe, he feels his vacation was nobody's fucking business 
>but his own.

Has he said this?

>> Especially, when it was known he had a problem with US policy 
>>which he had protested at Oxford,

>His going to england (or Russia) in no way should have any affect 
>on his beliefs.

Affect him?? My point is about what was obvious to Soviet Intelligence. 

>> ... that he had future political aspirations? 
>>
>Yeah, right.  23 years ago, he KNEW he was going to be one of the major
>presidential candidates...

What did he believe? We know he wanted a career in politics from the
ROTC letter. Perhaps it's time to go back and look at his speeches and
correspondence, and see where those notions of trying for president
were first expressed.

In the mean time....

>>IF IT WAS JUST A VACATION -- THEN WHY NOT TELL US ABOUT IT?
> 
>HE HAS!  HE SAID HE TOOK A VACATION!!!  BIG DEAL!!! I TOOK A VACATION
>23 YEARS AGO, TOO, AND I HAVE NO NEED TO RELATE THE DETAILS!!!  WHY THE
>FUCH SHOULD HE????

I take it you don't want to be president.

The reason he should go talk about it, if it was just a vacation
is that it shows he has nothing to hide. He doesn't have to I agree. 
If it's all innocuous, then it's just a gesture that could build
trust. Even if he's only hiding youthful indiscretions, that's no
problem. Gee, if it's just a vacation, why all so hush-hush? Why 
bother going off through Northern Europe in the dead of winter if 
it wasn't meant to be an experience? Was it worthwhile or a waste?
Surely he wrote about it, and talked about it amoung friends.

Being politically inclined, how could it not make an impression 
on him -- unless it wasn't his first trip to the Soviet Union?

>>Was Clinton particularly susceptible due to his idealism,
>>and the notoriety of being a Rhodes Scholar and an anti-war
>>activist? How about his ego? With the way he's tried to 
>>appeal to everyone now, isn't he particularly vulnerable to
>>exploitation, even without considering his desire to be 
>>president? How can I know? If he wouldn't stand beside his
>>countrymen and fight with them, and instead would criticize
>>them from abroad -- why should I give him the benefit of the
>>doubt??? 

>Because he thought the police action in Southeast Asea was WRONG, and
>did what over a million other citizens did--used all legal measures
>to avoid it. (an action, BTW, that was PARDONED, in case you forgot...)

"Used all legal measures to avoid it."

Are you sure you really want to speak for Slick W... err Brave-Bill?

>>Right now I don't know what to believe; so be brave BILL 
>>-- tell us about your excellent vacation. That's all it 
>>was, right?
> 
>Again, he has.  He took a vacation, and enjoyed it.

Discounting the weather, I'm sure he did. He might even have enjoyed
it very much. "Hey, Comrade, come join our party. We'll take very good 
care of you. Tell us about your Amerikan hippy communes, rock-n-roll,
free love, and ... what you play saxophone? You're a star, yes? Like the 
Beetle's John Lennon? The women will go wild ...."

>He's just not willing to say the blatant lies that you and Dornen
>wish to propagate have any substance to them, which is the only thing
>you'll be satisfied with.

You read minds, eh?  So tell us what Brave-Bill did in Moscow on 
New Years Eve in '69?  I hope he didn't black-out from all the vodka.
No telling where he might have ended up.

>*      the KelleyMan:Kelley L. Miller  //  "Easter has been cancelled...*    

-- Stephen Tice     Arlington Texas    10-10-92

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