HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 10:32:40 -0500 
From: Bill Thomas <bt16+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Help now! Strat/Tele copy question
	<1992Dec10.201902.5200@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>

>> Why buy a copy of a Strat/Tele when the original and superior
instruments are
>> so reasonably priced?  Copies, while they *may* approach the quality of the
>> originals, never have the resale value nor will they appreciate over
time.  >If
>>you're going to go through a procession of guitars (like I do) the
former is >of
>> paramount concern.  If you hang on to instruments forever, the latter comes
>> into play.
> 
>I seriously question your first sentence. The new Strats/Teles now on
the >market
>are good guitars, but they are not the sames as the originals, they aren't 
>necessarily superior to instruments by other manufacturers, and I don't 
>consider them so reasonably priced.

OK, did I just make the mistake of my life or get a great deal?

I went down to the guitar store to buy myself an axe.
I was being quite a cheapskate so I skipped the Les Paul racks.
The Teles were from Mexico, the Strats were from Korea,
The prices were respectable; they surely weren't free-ya.

All right, forget that. I wanted to spend under $300 for the guitar and
under $100 for a practice amp. The store had a deal on Epiphone
"strats": $279 for the guitar, 15-watt amp and a gig bag. I played it.
It didn't seem real sturdy. I also played a Stratocaster Standard from
Mexico. $279 for the guitar alone. Definitely an improvement. Relatively
nice action.

Then I saw a lonely guitar in the corner: A Charvelle 1-A. Last one in
the store, which is discontinuing Charvelles (probably due to horrible
marketing support; who's ever heard of a Charvelle?). The alleged list
price was $499. The store was selling it for $249 WITH a 15-watt Fender
Squire amp. It seemed very rugged. The neck is flatter and wider than
the Strat's, but I kind of like that. It played a little different from
the Strat, but not necessarily worse.

So I got it! Actually, I had my wife get it for me for Christmas, so I
don't have it yet. Did I do the right thing?
Here's how I rationalize it: Fender is the General Motors of guitars.
They figure they don't have to try very hard and that the public will
buy anything of reasonable quality. Charvelle, meanwhile, is the Honda
-- OK, maybe the Subaru -- of guitars. They have to put out a really
fine product at a good price. So I got a real value!

Or did I?

Organization: Freshman, H&SS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 14:41:45 -0500 
From: "Andrew W. White" <aw37+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: roland jc120

is there anyone out there with a jc120 that makes some wierd background
noises when the chorus is on? also. what's the deal with that little
screw-like thing on the back panel? is anyone here from the boston area?
have you heard of the band childhood? what is the meaning of life? goth
is beautiful.  
i love you all
andy
From: derry@trident.usacs.rutgers.edu (Paul Reed S.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
Subject: Man-dO-lin
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:43:06 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Well since there seems to be a flurry of mandolin interest,
I thought I'd put my 2/100 of one dollar in.

I'm primarily (95%) a guitarist, but I love to dabble with
other intstruments; basically anything I can get my grubby
mitts on. ;-)  I got, as a present, a mandolin about 6 months
ago, and really like the sound and the instrument, but, alas,
I am having a wee bit of trouble locating transcriptions for 
anything I like.  I have a few recordings of mainly folky Irish
mandolins, and really love them, but my guitarist's ear is having
some trouble figuring out just how they play.  So keep those 
transcriptions coming!!! (please).  Oh, by the way, I have more
or less figured out the mandolin solo in "Stonehenge" by Spinal
Tap, so if anyone wants a copy, e-mail me, and I'll ascii-size it
for ya.

As to the guitar skill helping on mandolin; it does help with the
mechanical aspects (picking, strumming, etc.), however to properly
play the mandolin, I think that you have to shift you mind set a little
bit so that it's not obvious you're just a guitarist cheesing off
on a mandolin. (No tapping please!!) Easier said than done of course,
and I am having much trouble with it.  

In closing, I'd like to bring up another cool instrument (maybe this
belongs in another group), the sitar.  I have a friend who is lucky 
enough to have one, unfortunately neither of us has any clue how to play!
Does anyone out there on UNIX land have any basic tips for us??

Well that's all from me.
Ad-Yos.
From: lm@armelle.cma.fr (Lionel Menard)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
Subject: Re: Fender 210
Date: 11 Dec 92 16:11:30 GMT
Reply-To: lm@armelle.cma.fr (Lionel Menard)
Followup-To: mallet@teac.enet.dec.com

In article <Bz3MKy.LsE@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, mkuinder@cape.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Kuindersma) writes:
|> 
|>   While shopping for a new guitar combo unit, my buddy and I stumbled across
|> something called a Fender 210.  It's a tube amplifier combo with (you guessed
|> it) two 10" speakers.  It has channel switching and (if I remember correctly)
|> a quite nice reverb effect.
|> 
|>   I've never heard mention of a Fender 210 here on the net.  I've heard of
|> the Twin, the Tweed and so on, but never the 210.  What do you folks call it?
|>  
|>   BTW, we found that the 210 had just the kind of sound we're looking for - a
|> nice, warm, tubey distortion sound that's easy to control with dynamics... and
|> the clean channel is mighty fine as well.
|>  
|>   ----- Mike Kuindersma
|>  
|> -- 
|> *************************************************************************
|> *  mkuinder@cape.UWaterloo.ca  * Opinions expressed are not those of UW *
|> *************************************************************************

-- 




 ___________________________________________________________
| Lionel MENARD                                             |
| Centre d'Energetique                                      |
| Ecole Nationale Superieure des Mines de Paris             |
| BP 207 06904 Sophia Antipolis Cedex                       |
| France                                                    |
| e-mail: lm@armelle.cma.fr                                 |
| tel: (33) 93 95 74 23                                     |    
| fax: (33) 93 95 75 35                                     |   
|___________________________________________________________|
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Tuesday, 15 Dec 1992 17:06:13 PST
From: <WAUGH@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
Subject: Re: Looking for pickup for Gibson L6-S + shielding question

In article <mbernar-151292182540@macnet2_03.erenj.com>, mbernar@erenj.com
(Marcelino Bernardo) says:
>
>My Gibson L6-S had a DiMarzio in the bridge position when I bought it.  I
>would like to install an original or equivalent pickup.  According to the
>Guitar Player Book, it uses superhumbuckers designed by Bill Lawrence.  I
>was told by a dealer that Seymor Duncan makes a number of models that
>should fit.  I would appreciate hearing any recommendations others have to
>offer.

When I bought the L-6S I have since sold it had Duncans in both bridge and
neck positions.  The bridge pickup was a JB (Jeff Beck) and the neck a
'59 Neck.  The original SuperHumbuckers are standard sized dual coils so
anything should fit.  The stock pickups were potted units with no visible
pole pieces.  I put them back in the guitar when I sold it.

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
From: whc2993@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: John Lee Hooker et. al.
Reply-To: whc2993@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:05:14 GMT

In article <14DEC92.16062916@skyfox>, holtslander@skyfox writes:
>I saw the greatest show last night on the Arts and Entertainment Network.
>It was a show called "RAVE" the episode title was "John Lee Hooker and
>Friends".  Actually I only saw the last ten minutes.  J.L. jammed with
>Ry Cooder and then they had a finale number J.L. with Bonnie Rait, Lonnie
>Mack, Charlie Musselwaithe, John Hammond, Robert Cray, Roy Rogers, Johnie
>Johnson, and a bunch more fantastic blues musicians   I assume the show had Joh
>n Lee playing with all these musicians seperately.  A&E usually rebroadcasts
>their shows so watch out for it.  Definitely a must see.

If you hear about a re-broadcast let us know.
								B.C.


********************************************************************************
"The blues is a low down achein' chill"  Robert Johnson
 and so is my apartment right now. 
********************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar,alt.guitar,sci.electronics,rec.audio
From: rblander@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Robyn Landers)
Subject: Re: Sovtek tubes
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:19:27 GMT

In article <Bywoy0.GFM@cup.hp.com> balon@cup.hp.com (Tom Balon) writes:
>	The Sovtek 5881 is great tube. [...]
>	About the only other 6L6 tube
>	I've used that's as good are the old American made Slyvania or RCA's.
>	Phillips ECG also makes a decent 6L6.  These are much harder to find
>	and cost big $$$. 

    My reference materials agree with this.

>	[I discurage the use of Chineese power tubes.]

    My reference materials agree here too with one exception noted later.
The EL34s are horrible.  "Firecrackers".  When I last spoke with a MESA
tech, he told me not to buy MESA EL34s because they're Chinese and are
not very good.  The exception is 12AX7.  MESA has used Chinese ones for
many years and they sound great to me.  Physical construction details
are very obvious and distinctive.

>	I've used a dozen or so Sovtek 12AX7's with good results. I'm not
>	sure if they are as good as the El brand Yugoslovian 12AX7. 

    My reference material says the EI Yugo EL34s are very poor.
The East German Siemens brand (relabelled as National among others) EL34
sounds great in Marshalls and is probably the best bet for guitar amps.

>	As far as EL84's, once again the US made Sylvania's were great but
>	are scarce. The Sovtek is an exellent choice. 

    Agreed, by personal experience with Sylvania vs other domestic brands.
Sovtek gets great review in the book I have.



-----
Robyn Landers
rblanders@math.uwaterloo.ca
	"I'm just doing my rock'n'roll duty." -- Dubois

Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
From: rblander@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Robyn Landers)
Subject: Re: single coil hum cancelling idea...opinions?
Summary: Duncan pickups wired incorrectly
Keywords: Duncan pickup Strat
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:02:15 GMT

In article <MIZUTANT-161292131239@microlab20.med.upenn.edu> MIZUTANT@fred.wharton.upenn.edu (Taka Mizutani) writes:
>I also have an American Standard, with Seymour Duncan Classic Stack pickups
>in both the bridge and the neck positions. When I installed these pickups,
>I also lost the "in between" positions, neck/middle and bridge/middle. I'm
>thinking of putting in a coil splitter, so I can use one coil of the double
>coil, essentially making it a single coil, and getting back the
>hum-cancelling sound of the original pickups. 

	I respectfully submit that you have not wired your pickups
correctly.  Each Classic Stack is a humbucker and is virtually noise free.
You say you want to get back the hum-cancelling sound of the originals,
suggesting that you now have noise.  Also you say you lost the "in between" 
position sound.  Properly installed, the Classic Stack will be noise
free and preserve original tone.  So you must have wired them wrongly.

	I had no such problems with my Duncan pickups (Classic Stack
and Hot Rails) when wired properly.  Check yours again.

	[Removed alt.guitar from newsgroups line because now that
we have rec.music.makers.guitar we should quit using alt.guitar IMHO.]

-----
Robyn Landers
rblanders@math.uwaterloo.ca
	"I'm just doing my rock'n'roll duty." -- Dubois


Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
From: healy@nosc.mil (Mike Healy)
Subject: Re: strat hard case question
Keywords: strat
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:02:45 GMT

When I had an Ibanez locking tremolo (Floyd Rose type) installed on
my 74 strat, the tech highly recommended taking the arm off when
putting it in the case. Fortunately, my arm just pulls out.

Mike Healy

healy@nosc.mil


Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
From: kew@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (steve.w.askew)
Subject: Re: Chicago area stores
Summary: Used in Chicago
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:00:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.164110.353@qualcomm.com>, dweber@lark.qualcomm.com (Dan Weber) writes:
> 
>  Any good music stores in the Chicago area, I'm interested
> in places that specialize in good quality affordable used
> gear. I'll be leaving for Chi-town tomorrow 12/12 so if you
> read this after then please disregard.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dano
> 
> dweber@qualcomm.com

	Not to many places are into used gear in Chicago. We have
	a local resale paper called "Tradin Times" it has a HUGE!
	used musical insturment/amp/effects section, aprox three
	large pages of 2 line adds. Were talkin hundreds of adds.
	This can be had at any 7-11, White Hen, Jewel&OSCO in the 
	Chicago area.  Tradin Times is were just about everything 
	used goes. Most store owners do not want to deal with used gear. 
	I have a feeling they have a better margin on new gear. As far 
	as music stores the ones listed below will give you a fair 
	price on used gear that they carry. You can also get a copy of 
	a rag called "Illinois Entertainer" they have adds for most of 
	the stores in Chicago and Suburbs.


	1. The Music Crib	Aprox 107 and Southwest Hwy
	2. Flynn Guitars	In Lombard I think.
	3. Mr Bills Music	Crest Hill Il- 35 southwest of Downtown

	If you want entertainment its "AXE in Hand" in Dekalb. Bout 
	90 minutes straight west from downtown. Its well worth the drive. 
	Larry the owner has "THE" largest selection of Vintage and used
	guitars in the Midwest. He also has the highest prices in the
	Midwest. He has about 100 20+year old Fender amps. His prices 
	on amps is equally as arrogant. 

	Forget about Pawn Shops! They are a complete rip-off and not
	worth the time or effort. Most will charge $350 for a beat to
	shit Strat copy, and most carry Gorilla amps,,, and want list price.

	Steve
	Doin That Blues ThAng!

Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
From: jks2x@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jason K. Schechner)
Subject: Re: strat hard case question
Keywords: strat
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:49:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.180245.11939@nosc.mil> healy@nosc.mil (Mike Healy) writes:
>When I had an Ibanez locking tremolo (Floyd Rose type) installed on
>my 74 strat, the tech highly recommended taking the arm off when
>putting it in the case. Fortunately, my arm just pulls out.
				      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Isn't that horribly painfull?  ;-)

>Mike Healy
>
>healy@nosc.mil
>

-JK

-- 
"I sneak in my own house... it's 4 in the morning... I've had too much to 
drink... said I was out with the boys... I sneak in my bedroom... slip 
into bed... I know if I wake her, I'll wake up.... DEAD!"
   							-Dave Mustaine
From: viv@ford.mps.ohio-state.edu (John Vivian)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
Subject: Korg A5 MultiFX unit
Date: 15 Dec 1992 13:56:25 -0500
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ford.mps.ohio-state.edu
Summary: thoughts, feelings, and opinions sought!

Hello, 
	Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with this
multi-fx unit and what they think of it. Thinking of splurging for it
but first would like to hear what others thing/feel. I'm a definate
beginner/amateur who wants to expand his sound and this unit seems
to pack a lot. Thanks,
			John

Xref: sparky rec.music.makers.guitar:973 rec.music.makers:11525
From: keitha@spider.co.uk (Keith Aitken)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers
Subject: Re: Ultimate Guitar Amp
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:58:03 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.

In article <BzCM36.Ko5@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:
>jaz@icd.ab.com (Jack A. Zucker) writes:
>
>
>>          | Bmaj7  D7  | Gmaj7 Bb7 | Ebmaj7  | Am7  D7  |
>
>One of these days I'm going to get round to trying these chords in
>Jack's oft posted .sig

Yeah, me too. I'm sure this has come up before..... isn't it "Giant
Steps" or something similar?

Keith
-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::: Keith.D.Aitken, Mfg. Engineer ::::: "If you want to have fresh ideas, ::
: Spider Systems, Edinburgh, Scotland :: change them as often as your :::::::
:::: Email : keitha@spider.co.uk ::::::: shirts" ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar,alt.guitar,sci.electronics,rec.audio
From: dcovell@hfglobe.intel.com (David Covell)
Subject: Re: Sovtek tubes
Organization: Intel Corporation
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:57:23 GMT

rblander@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Robyn Landers) writes:

>In article <Bywoy0.GFM@cup.hp.com> balon@cup.hp.com (Tom Balon) writes:
>>	The Sovtek 5881 is great tube. [...]
>>	About the only other 6L6 tube
>>	I've used that's as good are the old American made Slyvania or RCA's.
>>	Phillips ECG also makes a decent 6L6.  These are much harder to find
>>	and cost big $$$. 

>    My reference materials agree with this.
>>	As far as EL84's, once again the US made Sylvania's were great but
>>	are scarce. The Sovtek is an exellent choice. 

>    Agreed, by personal experience with Sylvania vs other domestic brands.
>Sovtek gets great review in the book I have.

Okay, this answers all my concerns except one: how about the Sovtek 12AX7?
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
From: deal_j@apollo.HP.COM (John Deal)
Subject: Re: roland jc120
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:26:50 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <Qf_Cvt_00awD4bBFJ8@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Andrew W. White" <aw37+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> is there anyone out there with a jc120 that makes some wierd background
|> noises when the chorus is on? also. what's the deal with that little
|> screw-like thing on the back panel? is anyone here from the boston area?
|> have you heard of the band childhood? what is the meaning of life? goth
|> is beautiful.  
|> i love you all
|> andy
Don't know much about the JC120 except it is a great clean jazz guitar amp with
good chorus.

I do know a litte about the band Childhood.  The (I think) lead guitarist is
a former instructor of mine Greg Passler.  He is a great instructor and a real
nice guy.  I would still be studing under him except I am in heavy startup 
band mode and can not commit the time now.  I look forward to studing with him
again.

I have one cassette of Childhood called "To the Light".  It is a fairly streight
ahead rock band sound with a very nice recording job.  I mentioned this to 
Greg and he mentioned that this tape was more "commerical" than the last one
and he was also very pleased at the quality of the recording.

If you see Childhood in action, tell Greg "Hi" for me.

			John

-- 
********
Opinions of John Deal at deal_j@apollo.hp.com
********
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
From: jtblair@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (John Blair)
Subject: Re: repairing a beat up old hunk 'o junk guitar
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:01:11 GMT


If the 5th and 7th frets buzz, they probably don't need to be replaced.  the
first thing to check is relief.  Most guitar necks should not be absolutely
straight.  They need just a bit of bow around the middle, around the 6th
fret.  If there is no bow, or--heaven forbid--backbow, that is, convex, that
is, like an n rather than like a u, loosen the truss rod, slowly, until
you have just a touch of relief.  If it still buzzes, the first or second
fret after the fret you've stopped when it buzzes may be a touch high.  If
it's loosened you tap it down.  If it's just high you file it down and then
reround it.  Take this confused account with a bit of salt.  I think it's
all correct, but. . . .   corrections wished.

john







Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
From: barsz@bnr.ca (Peter Barszczewski)
Subject: Re: Need advice: microphone setup
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:01:08

In article <lj24ubINN2ud@saltillo.cs.utexas.edu> borst@cs.utexas.edu (Christoph W. Borst) writes:

   I am about to buy myself a microphone and stand, and need opinions
   about what microphone will be best, and where it is cheapest.  I
   will be doing mostly guitar recording, with perhaps a small amount
   of vocals.  I need a stand to hold it in place, but don't need 
   anything fancy.  I already have cords/transformers/etc.  So far,
   my friends have recommended that I get a Sure Sm57 and the cheapest
   stand I can find.  I seek more advice about which mike o buy and
   about which distributor sells it least expensively . . .

The "classic" work-horses is the Shure SM-57 (instruments) and SM-58
(vocals).  You can't go wrong.  If you insist on buying new, then go mail
order (Sam Ash, et al.), but I would recommend watching the net, you see
them go buy all the time.  I have had a couple SM-58's and abused them
terribly in an old punk band ... they still work fine.
--
Peter A. Barszczewski         |           .   .   .   .   .   .   .
(barsz@bnr.ca)                |        :    :    :    :    :    :    :
Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.  |     3     3     3     3     3     3     3
Montreal, Canada              |  D      D      D      D      D      D      D
From: br640@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jason A. Best)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
Subject: a new band...
Date: 13 Dec 1992 02:36:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


   A few friends and I are going to be starting a heavymetal/hard rock band
in the near future....We don't really know much about guitars, we are requesting
assistance please!!!We would like to keep it under 200 dollars...something
relative to an electrical acoustical guitar...
PLEASE relpy via e-mail...I need all the support/comments I can get!!!
thanks a lot...
-Jason Best
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
From: mongeau@ferrari.nmc.ed.ray.com (Mike Mongeau)
Subject: Blues radio shows
Organization: Equipment Division, Raytheon Company
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 15:33:45 GMT

I'm trying to put together a list of Blues radio shows across the country.
If you know of any Blues shows in your area, please email to me the 
specifics and I will post the list at a later date.   Here is an example
of the format I am using:

City             Station/Freq  Day/Time          Show
-------          ------------  ------------      ------------------
Boston, MA        WGBH  89.7   Fri 9pm-1am      "Blues After Hours"
                               Sat 8-9pm        "NPR's BluesStage"
                               Sat 9pm-1am      "Blues After Hours"
                  WERS  89.9   Mon-Fri 11pm-2am "Bluesology"

Worcester, MA     WICN  90.5   Thu 8-10pm       "Blues On The Ceiling"
                  WCUW  91.3   Fri-Sat 6-9pm    "Blues Hits Big Town"

Thanks !

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    "Saved by the Blues..."
      Mike Mongeau                        Raytheon Equipment Division
      mongeau@tif162.ed.ray.com                          Marlboro, MA
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: co273@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stacy Tartar)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
Subject: Gibson Midnight Special?
Date: 12 Dec 1992 19:25:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Does anyone have any idea what a Gibson Midnight Special is worth?
Just curious.

Also, can anyone recommend a good acoustic pick up?
-- 
Stacy Tartar
co273@cleveland.freenet.edu