HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lowell@tc.fluke.COM (Lowell Skoog)
Subject: Re: Bush's veto of family leave bill
Keywords: Family values
Reply-To: lowell@tc.fluke.COM (Lowell Skoog)
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:44:34 GMT

billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick) writes:

>Clever rhetoric, but misses the point.  The leave would be UNPAID, but
>benefits would be *PAID*.  For most employers benefits are a substantial
>part of the compensation package.

By benefits, I assume you mean health insurance, mainly.  Yes,
continuing to pay for health insurance during family leave is a
burden on the employer.  (Of course, in many of the countries listed
in Ed Schulz's original posting, employers continue to pay SALARY
during family leave, but we'll overlook that for now.)

To me, this is another sign of the need for universal, basic health
insurance in this country.  Basic health insurance should be a
benefit of citizenship, not employment.  If this were true, then
family leave would not be a problem.  In addition, I believe that
employers would be more willing to hire employees for the WORK that
they can do, without worrying about the cost of keeping those
employees healthy.  I believe that this would lead to more sensible
hiring practices and fuller employment.  (It sure would make it
easier to get help around here at Fluke!)

Some folks see universal, basic health insurance as socialist folly.
I see it as an important step toward making this country competitive.

					--Lowell Skoog, Seattle
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Zintel)
Subject: Re: Bush's veto of family leave bill
Keywords: Family values
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:48:01 GMT

In article <938@nazgul.UUCP> bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
>If you have unlimited free health care, and tons of leave for various reasons
>mandated by law, then you will no longer have a robust and productive
>economy.

Do I have this straight?

A robust and productive economy is more important than health.











-- 
---
Mike Zintel             zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com not zintel@mdi.com anymore
Motorola Mobile Data
Bothell, WA
From: alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Bush's veto of family leave bill
Keywords: Family values
Date: 26 Sep 92 19:00:47 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: =>ESKIMO NORTH (206) 367-3837 SEATTLE, WA.<=

In article <351@sleepy.UUCP> oster@sleepy.UUCP (Ken Oster) writes:
>I think you need to remember Bush's position on regulation..
>He believes government should not mandate, regulate, order business
>to "do the right thing."  I have heard him say he believes in family
>leave as a company policy etc. but again is more free enterprise
>oriented than the other countries you mentioned...

    By not regulating business, Bush believes in letting companies pollute
and destroy resources at rates which wreck our health, our lives, and our
childrens futures without having any responsibility economic or otherwise
at all for their actions.  He believes in letting big business screw over
customers and the people as if they were a big boiler room scam operation
with no regulation to stop them  (can you say S&L disaster?)  He believes
in the rights of rich big business executives to get richer quick at the
expense of the economy, long term jobs, and the well being of the country
as a whole.  Letting businesses do what they want, how they want, whenever
they want is NOT a good idea.

   Bush is all for though mandating, regulating, and ordering individual
people to "do the right thing".  He's all for taking away basic human rights
and freedoms of the common man in the name of morality.  What you can watch
read or do with your life must fall under the conservative mandate of
correctness.  Your property can be taken and you are nowadays "guilty until
you have proven yourself innocent".  Police can now coerce confessions out
of suspects (innocent until proven guilty - again hah!)  If you are pulled
over for any reason there is an automatic search warrant for your car, 
including the trunk.
 
    When Bush says he is against govt regulation he only means giving
the rich elite above the law status.  He's all for regulating away the
rights and freedoms of everyone else.
    
-- 
****************************************************************************
* Dave                          *               The Alpinist               *
* alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com *            DARE to be stoopid!           *
****************************************************************************
Xref: sparky seattle.general:3225 uw.general:83
From: bketcham@stein.u.washington.edu (Benjamin Ketcham)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,seattle.forsale,pnw.forsale,misc.forsale
Subject: PLANE TICKET FOR SALE
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:28:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct2.142821.16446
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


For sale:  One round-trip ticket on United, value $440.00, useable any
time within a year from this past August (minus certain blackout dates,
I imagine) for anywhere United flies up to that value.  I bought this
for use at Thanksgiving (thus, it may have fewer blackout dates than
most `special deal' tickets), and no longer need it.  Asking $400.00.

Ben Ketcham

bketcham@u.washington.edu
(206)543-8176
(206)528-1220
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: ken@GTEtele.com (Ken Swapp)
Subject: Paying for unlisted phone number.
Organization: GTE Telecom, Inc.
Distribution: seattle
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:02:54 GMT

I just investigated changing my home phone number to an
unlisted number, and was told by GTE NW that it will cost 
me $2.20 each MONTH!!!    

This is absurd!  I can understand paying a one-time service 
fee to alter my database entry, but why should I have to 
continuously pay for my privacy?   The only reason I can 
surmise is that GTE wants to discourage people from not listing, 
which would leave them with less numbers to sell/publish.

Are my complaints, and right to privacy, ignored because I am 
purchasing a service?  Has anybody tried to fight this with any 
success?

I'd love to hear any comments or suggestions,

Ken Swapp
-- 
Ken Swapp
ken@gtenmc.gtetele.com
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: timf@polari.online.com
Subject: Re: COPS in Seattle
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix (206) 328-4944
Distribution: uassa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 07:22:20 GMT


Please note that recent episodes of COPS have featured only Pierce
County Sheriff Dept officers.  No King County or Seattle PD officers
have been profiled.

No, I have no idea why COPS is advertising these episodes as "COPS
in Seattle".  SPD refused to sign the agreement allowing COPS to film
their officers.  COPS crews did ride along with King County officers,
and an episode or two featuring KCP were broadcast back in July.

-- 
Timothy R. Flanagan		timf@polari.online.com
				tim@reed.edu
I'm the ACLU, the NRA, the EFF, Pro-Choice -- and I vote.
Unfortunately, I can't find a candidate to vote for.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: kevin@milton.u.washington.edu (Kevin Caskey)
Subject: dormers and cabin west of stevens
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: pnw
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:51:24 GMT

Am am still looking for someone to do some work in my attic. Now, however
my wife wants dormers instead of just skylights. Does anyone know 
someone in the North Seattle area that could be recomended?

I am also looking for a cabin for the Christmas holidays West of Stevens Pass.
It should sleep 6 to 10.

Thanks for the input.

Kevin
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: kelsey@mdd.comm.mot.com (Joe Kelsey)
Subject: [sci.crypt: Re: Algorithm for VCR Plus+ codes: thanks]
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:57:21 GMT

In <28SEP199210145037@pearl.tufts.edu> gdallal@pearl.tufts.edu (Jerry Dallal) writes:

>            Special thanks go to  those  who pointed me to Shirriff K, 
>        Welch C,   Kinsman A,   "Decoding  a  VCR  Controller   Code," 
>        Cryptologia,  16 (#3, July 1992), 227-234.   (I'd thank you by 
>        name,   but I wasn't  sure you'd want  it posted to the  net!) 
>        Thinking this  to  be  what-you're-not-likely-to-find-in-your-
>        typical-college-library  I  first  checked  the  MIT   library 
>        catalog,   but they don't subscribe to the journal.   However, 
>        *Tufts*  does.  (Ever notice how sometimes you're surprised by 
>        what goes on in your own backyard?) 

I just called the University of Washington and Seattle Public libraries and
apparantly neither one carries this journal.  Does anyone around here know
where I can find a copy?

E-mail me if you can help and I can post the answer if others want to know
also.

/Joe
kelsey@mdd.comm.mot.com
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: slh@gibdo.engr.washington.edu ()
Subject: Re: Bush's veto of family leave bill
Keywords: Family values
Organization: none
Distribution: seattle
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:17:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.045116.15120@polari> trevord@polari.online.com writes:
>In article <1992Sep27.161928.705@eskimo.celestial.com> mann@eskimo.celestial.com (Tom Mann) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep26.051718.28897@seanews.akita.com>, billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick) writes:
>>> 
>>> Say you have a contractor begin remodeling your kitchen.  Halfway
>>> through the job the worker's child is born and he stops work for
>>> *three months*.  Now you can't give the job to someone else -- after
>>> all, by legislative fiat he has the right to leave you in the lurch.
>>> So your kitchen remains unusable for one quarter of a year -- but
>>
>
>   The family leave bill only applied to companies with >50 people.
>
[...]
	I think the poster (bill) was aware of that.
	(In fact, his full article contained a quote of that very statement.)
	He was probably trying to make the point in the only way some people
	seem to understand that something might not be fair;
	i.e. only if they were put in the position
	where they would be adversely affected by it.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: bossert@Thalatta.COM (John Bossert)
Subject: CD Repair
Organization: Thalatta Corporation, Bellevue WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 03:39:59 GMT

Can anyone recommend a decent, affordable place to have a CD player
repaired?  Thanks.

-- 

In-Real-Life: John Bossert, Thalatta Corporation, (+1 206.455.9838)
Domain: bossert@Thalatta.COM   Path: ...!sun!sunup!thebes!bossert
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: mckenzie@cs.washington.edu (Neil McKenzie)
Subject: Re: Paying for unlisted phone number.
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: seattle
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 19:20:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.230254.4013@GTEtele.com> ken@GTEtele.com (Ken Swapp) writes:
>I just investigated changing my home phone number to an
>unlisted number, and was told by GTE NW that it will cost 
>me $2.20 each MONTH!!!    
>
[stuff deleted]
>ken@gtenmc.gtetele.com
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

But wait a minute!  You're an insider.  Just hack the database from the
inside, and blammo!  Free unlisted number!  :-)

Alternate strategy:  talk to your boss and demand a free unlisted number
as a perk.  Or, a $4 raise on your monthly salary to cover expenses.

It has easier to fight City Hall if you *are* City Hall, is it not?
-- 
--Neil McKenzie 
mckenzie@cs.washington.edu	UUCP: ..!uw-beaver!uw-june!mckenzie
The army: the great prince issues commands, founds states, vests families
with fiefs.  Inferior people should not be employed.  (The I-Ching)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: mam@tc.fluke.COM (Mark Mays)
Subject: Re: Bush's veto of family leave bill
Keywords: Family values
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:03:47 GMT

In article <938@nazgul.UUCP> bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
>In article <1992Sep24.165900.8008@tc.fluke.COM> schulz@tc.fluke.COM (Edmund P. Schulz) writes:
>/Bush's after prime time announcement of his vetoing of the family
>/leave bill yesterday should remove any lingering doubts about his
>/real idea about a "kinder, gentler nation" that cherishes "family
>/values".  The bill would have required employers ....

And in Walter's farsighted view of society ...

>I suspect that the liberal idea of family values is "somebody, anybody
>but the parents, pays for the parents' childrearing".

The quality of your life is directly affected by how well myself and
other people in this country (world, really) raise our children.  Our
children will be the ones to build your house (retirement homes),
clean and repair your teeth, empty your garbage, fix your car, provide
you with jobs, pay your social security, and on and on for more than
anyone here probably cares to read.

Believe it or not, you DO have a vested interest in other peoples
children because of the incredibly dependent society we have created.
Don't you think proper attention to a child's development will give 
that child a better chance at being a positive contributor to society
rather some neglected, disaffected crime/drug indulgent loser?

You say that the liberal element wants 'somebody, anybody but the
parents' to pay for childrearing.  What a ludicrus statement!  You
obviously haven't a clue as to the financial burden children have on
their parents.  I'm really tired of people without children
complaining about other people's children as liabilities to society.
Children are assets whose futures should be invested in with better
quality education and whatever else it takes to make them contributors
rather than detractors, or the quality of your life will be affected
whether you like it or not.

Mark Mays

Xref: sparky seattle.general:3153 pnw.general:2188
From: meb4593@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Michael Bain)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell Viacom Cable to add the SCI-FI Channel
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:37:16 GMT
Followup-To: seattle.general
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

klg@statsci.com (Kevin L. Gross) writes:
>Well, I called, for all the good it will do. When I asked them what
>happened to the plans to provide more than 36 channels, they said that
>they have no plans to expand that number at this time. When I informed

Gee, that would give them another excuse for jacking up the rates.  I
can't believe that they don't go for that.  Of course, since they can
jack up the rates without having to spend any money anyway ...

>When I asked what channels would be deleted to make room for the SCI-FI
>channel (or WGN, which I've been requesting for 3 years, I'm a Cubs-fan)
>they said they would not remove ANY channels to provide new channels.
>
>When I informed them that they have done so in the past, I was told that
>I am mistaken and that they never do that.

Lying bastards.  Hmph.  I was pissed when they removed VH1 a few years
ago without any warning.  Is the shopping channel really that much more
popular?  I wonder how their priorities are set.  (I don't really ... I
know its on how much money they get from the other stations.)




-- 
Michael Bain                                            (206) 234-6942
Boeing Commercial Airplane Group           meb4593@icdfs.ca.boeing.com
Seattle, WA 98124
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick)
Subject: Re: Bush's veto of family leave bill
Organization: SEANEWS - Seattle Public Access News & Mail
Distribution: seattle
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 05:17:18 GMT
Keywords: Family values

In article <1992Sep24.165900.8008@tc.fluke.COM> schulz@tc.fluke.COM (Edmund P. Schulz) writes:
>Bush's after prime time announcement of his vetoing of the family
>leave bill yesterday should remove any lingering doubts about his
>real idea about a "kinder, gentler nation" that cherishes "family
>values".  The bill would have required employers of fifty or more
>people to provide up to twelve weeks UNPAID leave to deal with the
>birth of a child or a family illness.  Virtually all industrialized
>nations recognize the public service of rearing the next generation
>and provide not only unpaid leave but also paid leave.

Clever rhetoric, but misses the point.  The leave would be UNPAID, but
benefits would be *PAID*.  For most employers benefits are a substantial
part of the compensation package.

It remains true that the only appropriate negotiators for the employee/
employer contract are the employer and the employee.

Say you have a contractor begin remodeling your kitchen.  Halfway
through the job the worker's child is born and he stops work for
*three months*.  Now you can't give the job to someone else -- after
all, by legislative fiat he has the right to leave you in the lurch.
So your kitchen remains unusable for one quarter of a year -- but
wait -- now imagine you pay for his insurance during this time.

Not a happy picture.  Why is this then reasonable for any other
employer?

Bill
-- 
SEANEWS  []  Seattle News + Mail  []  Public Access  []  +1 206 937 9529
E-mail for PGP key.                   sum -r billmcc.pub gives "33931 1"
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: narayan@cs.montana.edu (R. A. Narayan)
Subject: Recruiters in the Seattle Area
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, MSU, Bozeman Mt 59717
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:12:13 GMT


Hello friends,

Could someone please send me a list of resruiters in and around the Seattle 
area?

Thanks in advance,

Narayan

-- 
  /|  / 
 / | /  __  __  __      __  __
/  |/  (_< / < (_< /_/ (_< / / 				narayan@cs.montana.edu
		   _/	
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick)
Subject: Re: Bush's veto of family leave bill
Organization: SEANEWS - Seattle Public Access News & Mail
Distribution: seattle
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 04:59:22 GMT
Keywords: Family values

In article <1992Oct2.014801.7422@mdd.comm.mot.com> zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Zintel) writes:
>In article <938@nazgul.UUCP> bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
>>If you have unlimited free health care, and tons of leave for various reasons
>>mandated by law, then you will no longer have a robust and productive
>>economy.
>
>Do I have this straight?
>
>A robust and productive economy is more important than health.

Lines like this always take me back to bedtime stories.  This one makes
me think about the story of the "Goose That Laid The Golden Egg."  Even
now I can hear the farmer say something like:

   "Do I have this straight?  A healthy goose is more important than golden
    eggs."

If you want to sacrifice a robust economy for short-term gains you are
doing nothing less than attempting to kill that goose.

Bill
-- 
SEANEWS  []  Seattle News + Mail  []  Public Access  []  +1 206 937 9529
E-mail for PGP key.   MD5 (no sigs) is: 8e253e95133365a292261c7d0da58bcb
Newsgroups: uw.jobs,seattle.general
From: maverick@halcyon.com (Thomas M. J. Fruchterman)
Subject: wanted: student for part-time QA
Keywords: student job,QA
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service +1 206 382 MAIL (382-6245)
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:39:14 GMT


   RAF Technology, a Redmond start-up, would like to hire a motivated,
diligent, technical college student for Quality Assurance. Would
prefer someone who is computer literate.


20+ hours a week
1 semester
$8-10 an hour
higher rate if you can program in C.

   You must provide your own transportation.

   send e-mail to maverick@halcyon.com or call 867-0700.


Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: monaghan@cac.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan {IS})
Subject: Re: U Dist. Restaurants?
Organization: UW Computing
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:25:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.031732.26055@nwnexus.WA.COM> guru@halcyon.com (Dennis Wicks) writes:
>I need some recommendations for restaurants, coffee shops,
>etc. in the U district where I can meet a lady friend for
>some coffee, a bite to eat, and some casual, and possibly
>serious, conversation.  They must be open late Sunday
>afternoon and early evening.

There's a coffee shop at 42nd & University (Roma something?) where all the
twentysomrthings hang out.  Good prices!


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tracy Monaghan: arithmetic-mean, melanin-deficient, gender-advantaged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick)
Subject: Re: Bush's veto of family leave bill
Organization: SEANEWS - Seattle Public Access News & Mail
Distribution: seattle
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:51:07 GMT
Keywords: Family values

In article <1992Sep28.045116.15120@polari> trevord@polari.online.com writes:
>In article <1992Sep27.161928.705@eskimo.celestial.com> mann@eskimo.celestial.com (Tom Mann) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep26.051718.28897@seanews.akita.com>, billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick) writes:
>>> 
>>> Say you have a contractor begin remodeling your kitchen.  Halfway
>>> through the job the worker's child is born and he stops work for
>>> *three months*.  Now you can't give the job to someone else -- after
>>> all, by legislative fiat he has the right to leave you in the lurch.
>>> So your kitchen remains unusable for one quarter of a year -- but
>>
>
>   The family leave bill only applied to companies with >50 people.

At that somehow makes it right?  The same principle applies.

-- 
SEANEWS  []  Seattle News + Mail  []  Public Access  []  +1 206 937 9529
E-mail for PGP key.                   sum -r billmcc.pub gives "33931 1"