HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: SASAKI@RHODES.BITNET
Subject: "mongen"
X-Unparsable-Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 13: 23:56 TZONE
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:24:38 GMT

Could someone let me know whether a Japanese university/college typically
has a "mongen" (close-the-gate time)? I want to incorporate this information
in the supplementary material I am developing for teaching
permission/prohibition.

Mummy Man
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: schung@kilroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Stephen Chung)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: WNN/JWP Help
Date: 13 Jan 1993 03:57:26 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: kilroy.jpl.nasa.gov
Keywords: jwp,wnn

In article <jwb.726888371@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au> jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au (Jim Breen) writes:
>>Q: Does anyone know    What's in these index file anyway? (If it's a trade
>>   secret, just tell me so :-)
>
>I didn't reply because I hoped that Stephen Chung (author of JWP)
>would see it and reply.  Stephen is possibly off the network now, so if

Hi, Jim.  I am still here.  :-)

Anyway, the WNN conversion dictionary in JWP is *not* smaller than
other versions of WNNDICT, e.g. as in MOKE.  It just looks smaller
because I used some form of compression to make it so.  To be sure,
count the number of lines.

Because of the compression, you CANNOT use another conversion
dictionary with JWP.  Maybe one day I'll modify JWP to use the
normal WNNDICT and be done with the same questions flooding my
mail box.  :-)

Cheers
  Stephen
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga)
Subject: Re: THE QUICK AND DIRTY GUIDE TO JAPANESE GRAMMAR (Posted)
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 08:52:26 GMT

In article <PKELL.93Jan4235357@pkell.is.morgan.com> pkell@is.morgan.com (Peter Kell) writes:
>In article <1992Dec26.142705.22799@Csli.Stanford.EDU> hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga) writes:
>   A related issue is the so called UNAGI sentences, of the form
>	   "Nani wo taberu?"	(What will you eat?)
>	   "Boku wa unagi da"	(I'll have UNAGI=eel; but literally,
>				    "I'm an eel")
>
>Replace " I'm an eel" with "For me, eel" and you would get both a literal and
>a correct translation.

That may work as a practical solution, but does not resolve the
grammatical issue.  What you gave is not a literal translation,
since the case is changed from nominative to dative (in short,
"I" to "me").

>   This is also said to be the origin of a common error made by Japanese
>   in speaking English, eg.
>	   "Who's your favorite poet?"
>	   "I am Keats"
>
>In the same way, this can be rewritten as:
>
>      	   "Who's your favourite poet?"
>           "For me, Keats"

The issue here is that such errors actually did/do happen;
which indicates the grammatical singularity of these UNAGI-bun constructs.
And that's why:
>   The grammatical basis of [this] sentence is a much debated issue.

There are a number of explanations/resolutions suggested on this
phenomenon (which I'm not qualified to go into detail), but no
definite conclusion is obtained as yet.

Tad Perry's original article gave a practical and clear-cut (even
if not perfect) account of the particle "wa" (with noted contrast
with "ga"), which is another reason for it to be recommended.

-Yuzuru Hiraga
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: AXJLC@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU (Jared Gedlaman)
Subject: RE: Japanese baseball (fwd)
X-Unparsable-Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 12: 37:48 TZONE
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:38:24 GMT

I agree with you on the basketball idea.  I just watched my Phoenix
Suns loose last night and break their 14 game winning streak.....
I wonder if a Japanese league would have the same level of intensity
as the NBA, though.  American teams playing exhibition games in Japan
would be very exciting, but a JBA?  I don't know, what do you think?

Jared Gedlaman
Finance/Japanese Major
Arizona State University
Tempe, Arizona, USA
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: surovi29@snybufva.cs.snybuf.edu (STUDENT)
Subject: Translation Help!
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:16:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: snybufva.cs.snybuf.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


Im looking to translate an instruction  booklet from Japan - Where can
I get a good program (Other than JDIC, it didnt help) Or where can
I order a book to help me out?

Thanks!

Scott

Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: REA2TZR@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU (Theresa Rooney)
Subject: Re: akemashite omedetou gozaimasu
X-Unparsable-Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16: 55:03 TZONE
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:56:31 GMT

> Nishimurasan
When I lived in Japan, they taught me to say "Akemashita" Am I the only one?
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Mule & Jenscript and Kanjips
Keywords: XKanji
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 08:18:18 GMT

The following is a test of the mule editor that I am using.

$B;d$K$F$D$@$C$F$5$$$^$;$s$+!#(B

Could you guys read the above sentence?

Anyhow, could someone please tell me where I might find English manuals
/descriptions for Mule, Jenscript, and Kanjips?

Please send me e-mail.  I'll post a summary.

$B$I$&$b$"$j$,$H$&$4$6$$$^$9!#(B

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992, 1993    Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                    |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
From: cov@spa3.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Richard Covington)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Postscript fonts for Mac/HP LJ ?
Date: 12 Jan 1993 19:17:22 GMT
Organization: Software Product Assurance, JPL
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: spa3.jpl.nasa.gov



Since I didn't see a FAQ posted for this group, I have to ask a basic
question.  I have a Mac IIcx, KanjiTalk (6.x), a Japanese word processing
environment (EGBridge,EGWord,EGBook) and an HP LaserJet 4M printer.

My problem is that the fonts that come with KanjiTalk and EGWord (Osaka
and Kyoto) appear to all be bit-mapped, i.e., all curved lines print as
jagged approximations. (These are the fonts whose finder icons are a
circle and the KAN kanji ("kan-ji" no KAN).)  Is this correct, or am I
missing something basic here?

If I'm just not configuring my system right, can anyone diagnose my
problem?  If it is, as I suspect, the bit-mapped fonts, can anyone
tell me what the state of postscript Japanese fonts is?  If they
exist, do you know where I could get them and if I need special printer
drivers to use them?  Maybe this is related to an earlier poster's
query about "vectored" fonts.

Emailed responses would be ideal, and I could post a summary.

Thank you.


-- 
___________________________________________________________________
Richard Covington, PhD               Jet Propulsion Laboratory
4800 Oak Grove Drive, MS 125-233     voice           (818) 354-6586
Pasadena, CA    91109                fax             (818) 393-1362
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga)
Subject: Re: MTV; strange sign
Keywords: tv, japan, lang
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:09:15 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.165626.2302@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>In article <1992Dec31.225520.22310@Csli.Stanford.EDU> hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga) writes:
>>It's not Jordan, but Charles Bigmouth Barkley blown up 50 times in size.
>>The monster, of course, is Godzilla (with sunglasses on).
>>Barkley elbows Godzilla and scores a basket, though he should be
>>clearly ruled of a charging foul.
>
>Ha! Shows what you know. Elbowing in the low post is NOT a foul in the NBA if 
>you are averaging over 20 points and 10 rebounds a game.

Gocha!
Since Godzilla obviously doesn't qualify as an NBA player (NBA doesn't
allow players with tails), they were playing under the international
(amateur) rules, as in the Olympics.
And that's the reason you don't see kangaroos in NBA.

-YH@sorry_for_the_noise
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane)
Subject: Basketball in Japan
X-Unparsable-Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 11: 41:20 SAT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 08:50:23 GMT

Jelani,  I don't care much for sports in general, but last year while living
in Japan I met a professional player (American) from New Orleans playing on
a Japanese team in Tokyo.  He lived near Shimoochiai, but I think he is back
in the states now.  In just talking with him he seemed like he really liked
playing ball in Japan.  He said people treated him very nice (true, Tokyo is
a little more international than say Odawara or something) and he was making
an effort to learn as much of the language as he could.  He did miss the
food of Louisianna though.

I see your from Portland.  My brother lives there (manages one of those pubs
that brew their own).  I have never heard of the Catlin Gabel School.  What is
it?  You can reply by e-mail if you want.  Peace, zane.
From: yoichi@carson.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: WNN/JWP Help
Date: 8 Jan 1993 10:27:31 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu
Keywords: jwp,wnn

I asked this a while ago but received no response.
Please allow me to repost.

I'm starting to use JWP, a Japanese word processor for
MSDOS machines. It comes with a kana-to-kanji conversion
dictionary called WNN.  In order to use this in JWP
however, you also need an index file for WNN.  I have
a bigger WNN file than the one which came with JWP and
would like to use it.  

Q: Does anyone know how to create the index file from WNN?
   What's in these index file anyway? (If it's a trade
   secret, just tell me so :-)

Yoroshiku Doumo!


Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga)
Subject: Cases in Japanese (Was: Re: THE QUICK AND DIRTY ...)
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:34:55 GMT

In article <C0DwI5.JI9@world.std.com> cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond) writes:
>Does "boku" have a case??

No, Japanese nouns (including pronouns) do not possess cases by themselves,
and (as Tad pointed out), do not inflect.
It is the particles, or rather, the noun+particle combination that
determines a case (in our case, boku+wa).

It seems universal for any language to specify cases of nouns.
This may be achieved by noun inflection (as in Latin: domino, domini,...),
word ordering (Chinese, which I believe is non-inflective), or
prefix/postfix particles (prepositions in European languages,
postpositions (=particles) in Japanese).
English uses a combination of inflection (for pronouns (I/my/me),
though retarded compared with languages like German or French),
word ordering (John loves Mary/Mary loves John), and prepositions
(to John, for John, ...).
Languages like Japanese and Latin are (relatively) order-free because
the cases are locally determined.

# The habits of the mother tongue carry over -- for example, with a
# Chinese person speaking Japanese, one can typically observe the
# ellipsis of particles, or overuse of copular verbs (ARU: be-verbs):
# eg. WATASHI KOKKU ARU YO (I am a cook; which in more natural Japanese
# is WATASHI WA KOKKU DA (or DESU).

Some mapping of particles with common traditional cases are as follows:

	Nominative (subject):		-wa, -ga
	Accusative (direct object):	-wo
	Dative (indirect object):	-ni
	Possesive:			-no
	Locative:			-de

Eg.: Boku wa Kanojo no Hon wo Kare ni ageta.
	(I gave him her book/I gave her book to him)

An immediate caveat is in order, though, since the particles do not
necessarily fit in the above categories, and are more elusive.

>It would seem to me that the literal translation would be:
>
>	Boku		wa	unagi	da.
>
>      I/me/my/mine    as for    eel     is/am/are(not formal)
>
>All of which points out the reality that there are not always clear
>one to one mappings in translating between languages.

True in general, though this particular example is rather exceptional.
There are many serious problems that arise in course of translation
(and I've done quite a few), though going through this would be
too tedious right now.

-Yuzuru Hiraga
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Kterm--Chotto sabishii yo
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 22:50:03 GMT

I have ftp-ed kterm from export.lcs.mit.edu.  I found it at
/contrib/kterm-5.1.1.tar.Z

I compiled it to kterm.  I typed

   kterm -fl '-sony-fixed-medium-r-normal-*'

An xterm popped up with a white background.  I typed


   more file

where "file" contains a sequence of Japanese sentences.  All the English
characters were intact, but the Japanese Kana and Kanji were replaced with
blanks.  What am I doing wrong?

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992, 1993    Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                    |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
From: CKELLEY@USUHS.UCC.USUHS.NNMC.NAVY.MIL ("LRC MR. CHARLES KELLEY")
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Journal of the Association of Teachers of Japanese
Date: 5 Jan 93 21:00:00 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet


	Here is the address of "The Journal of the Association of Teachers
of Japanese" according to "Ulrich's International Periodical Directory",
1992-93 editon.

	Association of Teachers of Japanese
	c/o University of Pittsburgh
	East Asian Languages and Literatures
	Pittsburgh, PA  15260
	Phone 412-624-5568	Fax 412-624-4419

An alternate address is given as well.

	Japanese Program
	Middlebury College
	Middlebury, VT  05753
	Phone 802-388-3711	Fax --none--

Editors and contacts are not listed for either address.

	Charles Kelley
	Uniformed Services University
	Bethesda, MD  20814-4799

	CKELLEY@USUHS.BITNET
	CKELLEY@USUHS.UCC.USUHS.NNMC.NAVY.MIL.INTERNET
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: SASAKI@RHODES.BITNET
Subject: underlining Japanese characters in HyperCard
X-Unparsable-Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15: 55:23 TZONE
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:57:30 GMT

I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to underline Japanese characters
in a HyperCard field. The menubar shows that the property of characters
is set underline, but it does not appear as such on the screen.
Interestingly, I have no trouble in underlining Roman alphabet letters
in the same field.

I changed the line height of the field, but it did not make a difference.

Could someone let me know whether this is the instinsic nature of this
application, or perhaps I am overlooking something obvious?

The environment I am currently working in is as follows:

KanjiTalk 6.07
HyperCard 2.0 (I tried both North American and Japanese versions)
Mac SE (purchased in fall 1990)

Mummy Man
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: mauro@netcom.com (Mauro DePalma)
Subject: beta sites wanted
Keywords: XKanji
Organization: self
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 07:20:07 GMT


   By using s/w based on X.V11R5, InterViews-3.1 and Nemacs we have
   created a product which currently runs on SunOS 4.1.2 which provides
   Japanese editing with romaji input and PostScript printing.

     We now need 2 or 3 beta sites to evaluate it before I make
   further announcements. The package has been named: 'XKanji' and needs
   at least 32MB of disk space.
   
      mauro@netcom.com (member of the LPF)

   DBA DePalma SoftCraft
   Sunnyvale, California
   (408) 245-0192
From: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Cases in Japanese (Was: Re: THE QUICK AND DIRTY ...)
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:27:34 GMT
Organization: U.S. Naval Academy

In article <fu#@byu.edu> luke@newt.ee.byu.edu (David Luke) writes:
>Here we run into problems for which there are not agreed-upon answers.
>It is my opinion that your above translation is the most literal, but
>many grammarians would argue that "suki da" is a transitive verb and
>that "kimi ga" is the direct object.

I've always wondering whether these grammarians were trying to force Japanese
syntax into an Indo-European mold.

>(See, for example, Kuno)  (There
>is evidence that this is true (or at least that it is becoming true) in
>the increased usage of the "--- o suki da" (and "--- o kirai") 
>construction, particulary in the Kanto area.)  Anyway, this would make
>the literal translation "I like you."

Some of Kuno's other examples also support this idea.  My only problem with
it is that I've never heard any real people talk this way.  I still hear
young women say "Anta ga suki" (constantly, constantly :-)
-- 
Els Withers                   email: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.mil
          phone: (410)267-3192 / fax: (410)267-4883
When orbiting particle-beam weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have
orbiting particle-beam weapons.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: xyang@ACS.UCALGARY.CA
Subject: Looking for JATJ
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:11:41 GMT

Hello, could any body post the address and contact person for

The Journal of the Association of Teachers of Japanese,  also
The Association of Teachers of Japanese

Thanks!

X. Jie
University of Calgary
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: SASAKI@RHODES.BITNET
Subject: "mongen" question supplementary
X-Unparsable-Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17: 37:26 TZONE
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:38:08 GMT

I forgot to tell in my previous message that my question on "mongen" was
about dormitories: that is, are Japanese college dormitory residents
prohibited from entering the dorm after a certain time at night?

Mummy
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: YNAKAZATO@GUVAX.ACC.GEORGETOWN.EDU (Yuji Nakazato)
Subject: Re: underlining Japanese characters in HyperCard
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:56:00 GMT

SASAKI@RHODES.BITNET wrote:

*I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to underline
*Japanese characters in a HyperCard field. The menubar shows
*that the property of characters is set underline, but it
*does not appear as such on the screen. Interestingly, I have
*no trouble in underlining Roman alphabet letters in the same
*field.
*
*I changed the line height of the field, but it did not make
*a difference.
*
*Could someone let me know whether this is the instinsic
*nature of this application, or perhaps I am overlooking
*something obvious?
* ......... (deleted)


This problem (not a feature!) has nothing to do with HyperCard
nor the Mac. The usual underline routine for roman-characters
on the Mac does NOT work for Japanese characters. (You know,
you can talk about the descender, x-hight, or ascender of
roman-characters, but they have no relevance to Japanese
charcters). In some word processors, which can handle Japanese,
there are two kinds of underlines: the regular underline &
the "lower" underline. I know no way to put underline in
Japanese text in HyperCard.

Yuji Nakazato
Chinese/Japanese Dept
Georgetown University
Washington, DC 20057
From: mdb@netcom.com (Mark Bisgeier)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: "Quomodo sedet sola civitas"
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:46:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Does anyone know the translation for this phrase, which appears in Waugh's
"Brideshead Revisited"?
Thanks
-- 


                      """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
                       Mark Bisgeier   mdb@netcom.com
                        "Imagine the possibilities!"

                        """"""""""""""""""""""""""""
From: delancey@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Scott C DeLancey)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: Origin of English?
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:10:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: pith.1ihrnhINN58e
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: darkwing.uoregon.edu

In article <C0Hr0w.159@NeoSoft.com> claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>			.
>>Of course particular *bits* of English come from elsewhere as a
>>result of contacts with Vikings, Normans, Christianity etc. But an
>>enormous amount of the basic vocabulary can be traced back at least as
>>far as Germanic, the same for the basic grammar.
>			.
>			.
>Every time this issue arises, I argue that this
>description inadequately emphasizes the importance
>of criollization (mostly with Norman French, but I
>know some highlight earlier processes, when differ-
>ent Germans and Scandinavians were moving around)
>in the genesis of English.  That is, I'm saying
>that, *un*like say, French, which picked up bits
>of Arabic, German, Italian, and so on, English
>differs fundamentally from its Germanic ancestors
>in the regular and predictable ways of a creole.
>
>There are some hazards in this position:
>1.  I might be wrong, scientifically; I sure
>    hope someone will set me straight if this
>    be so;

Well, it's maybe not quite as simple as right or wrong; I'd say
you're kind of right, but pretty wrong.
	You're right that in the traditional accounts the importance
of creolization effects in the development of English are
underemphasized.  But "differs fundamentally from its Germanic
ancestors in the regular and predictable ways of a creole" is
way overstating the case.  The most telling example I can think
of is the body of irregular verbs and nouns (come/came, foot/feet)
still in the language today, which are a direct inheritance from 
"Germanic ancestors"--this is the sort of think that gets eliminated
right off the mark in true creolization.  In fact, English still
had some of the Indo-European verb conjugation up to Modern Englihs
times (thou goest, he goeth), well after the end of direct foreign
influence--again, this is the sort of thing that disappears quickly
in creolization.

Scott DeLancey                   delancey@darkwing.uoregon.edu
Department of Linguistics
University of Oregon
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: Bulgarians - descendents of a Finn...
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:07:54 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1993Jan6.185852.7762@leland.Stanford.EDU> alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson) writes:

> 
> Are you talking about Gimbutas' work?  Or the beech/salmon/turtle stuff?  Or
> the "ex Oriente lux" of the pioneers?

No, I was referring to the book Mallory, In Search of the
Indo-Europeans.

One of the evidences and rationales (among some archeological stuff
and the beech/salmon stuff) is that taking into account the various
expansions/transitions, the descendant language that stayed closer to
the 'homeland' --since it would not have any problems with
the substratum or the invaders/dominators--would experience the
least changes, whereas more changes would be found among the
descendants as they moved out further assimilating/domineering
other-language speakers.
-- 

	mark	

   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey