HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Cost Concerns in Med School?
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:13:52 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <BvD8zJ.33x@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
>> Add to that the liability insurance for the manufacturer.  When I
>> was taking sports medicine as an intern, I had an idea of using
>> RTV to make flexible casts that football players could wear in
>> a game without hurting people.  We got a tub of it and did some
>> experiments.  But when the company found out what we were doing they
>> told the dealers not to sell it to us.  They had another product,
>> which was exactly the same stuff, but approved for medical use
>> that was 100 times as expensive.  
>
>How much of the increase was attributable to liability insurance?
>

I have no way of knowing what was due to that and what was due
to the expense of getting the stuff approved through the FDA.
I do know that in the field of computer programs to be used
with patients it is almost impossible to find anyone who will
issue liability insurance, despite there never having been
a lawsuit in the field.

>Would you be in favor of abolishing the Medical Devices Amendment
>of the Pure Food and Drug Act?

I'd certainly be in favor of modifying it if not abolishing it.






-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dsr@philabs.philips.com (Deborah S. Rech)
Subject: Re: SHINGLES
Originator: dsr@bubba
Reply-To: dsr@philabs.philips.com (Deborah S. Rech)
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:35:28 GMT


More circumstantial evidence on the connection between shingles and chicken
pox...

My husband's one and only attack of shingles occurred immediately after our 
2-year-old son had chicken pox.  Our MD also said this was a coincidence.
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: cfaks@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Alice Sanders)
Subject: Re: Antihistamines and Decongestants
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 08:39:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <1992Oct1.045548.13073@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>
>Don't you people have enough to worry about?
>
>-- 
>Steve Dyer
>dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer

I didn't understand the pertinence of this nasty little remark.  People
ask about what they are interested in and also things about which they are
ignorant.  

Why not just ignore the
questions you don't feel like you want to bother about answering and save
your energy for things you are more interested in.

Alice
From: rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: low thyroid levels, but not hypothyroid
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:14:27 GMT
Organization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA

In article <1992Oct01.024901.0902721@locus.com> yazz@locus.com
 (Bob Yazz) writes:
>Surely it's possible that the hypothalmus (part of the brain) that's
>ultimately responsible for the Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) is
>capable of underproducing the hormone, isn't it?

Hypothalamic/pituitary problems are a rare cause of hypothyroidism but
do occur.  It's usually relatively easy to spot when both the TSH
and the level of thyroid hormone is low.  If the TSH is in the normal
range, and the thyroid hormone levels are borderline low, it isn't
necessary to worry about this, so in the vast majority of cases,
the TSH gives the definitive answer.

-- 
David Rind
rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Excess Of Vitamin C?
Date: 4 Oct 92 15:06:43 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1470198@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com> kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse) writes:
>In sci.med, geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>
>> When Pauling's book on vitamin C came out, he recommended 1 gram
>> per day.  After they did studies with 1 gram per day showing no
>> effect on the frequency of colds in normal volunteers, he said,
>> "well, it really is 4 grams per day".  So they did those experiments,
>> still no better than placebo.  
>
>I'd like to see a reference to these studies. :-)

They came out about 1 or 2 years after Pauling published his book.
If you get the date of his book and search the back files of medline
about 2 or 3 years after that, I'm sure you'll find them.

As I recall it was in the early 60s.



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: cfaks@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Alice Sanders)
Subject: Re: Patients rights to copies of medical records
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1992 00:02:08 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <BvGJ56.HBs@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
>
>Here's a listing of the (20) states with statutory provisions
>guaranteeing full patient access to medical records:  Alaska, California,
>Colorado, Connecticutt, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana,
>Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, New York,
>North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.
>
>DC guarantees access by case law, not statute.  Massachusetts, 
>Minnesota, Montana, and Texas have statutory guarantees with 
>exceptions in cases where disclosure might harm the patient.
>
>Total: 25 states.
>
>Source: _In Health_ (formerly _Hippocrates), March, 1989.
>
>-- 
>Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
>russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ

In Illinois, though, the patient is only guaranteed a 'copy' of records.
When it comes to x-rays of some kinds, this can turn out to be very
inadequate.  I recently needed some x-rays for a second opinion, and the
second opinion doctor had to retake the x-rays because she simply could
not rely on the copy.  I obtained a second copy for her, trying to avoid
retaking them, and despite supposed efforts to get a very good copy, it
was no better.  I am now a patient of the second-opinion doctor rather
than the first one.  One of my gripes was the first doctor's reluctance to
assist me in getting my second opinion by letting me at least borrow my
originals; he could have kept a copy himself until I returned the original
if he had wanted to be helpful.

Alice
From: rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Chest pain
Date: 3 Oct 92 03:49:53 GMT
Organization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA

In article <1992Oct02.223042.8374@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu
 (George B. Clark) writes:
>Sixty-nine percent of people with a tender spot on the front sides of
>their chest wall suffer from Tietze's syndrome, a pain in the rib joints.
>At least that's what Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation
>said in February 1992.

This is ridiculously high.  Lots of people have tender areas on the chest
wall and do not have Tietze's syndrome.

>Maybe "costal-chondritis" and Tietze's syndrome are the same thing?

The terms costochondritis and Tietze's syndrome are often used 
interchangably, but most rheumatologists I know consider costochondritis
to be a part of Tietze's syndrome but that there are other components
to the syndrome, and so there are many people with costochondritis
(as might happen with an overuse injury) who do not have Tietze's
syndrome.
-- 
David Rind
rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo)
Subject: Cats and itching
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:21:13 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

I have a cat that sometimes bites the hair on his back.  The cat is 
15 years old.  I've been told that it is caused by dry skin.  It 
is not caused by fleas.  When he bites the hair, he leave bare spots
behind. 

Has anyone else seen this condition in their cat or dog and if so,
what did you do?
I read that the itching is caused by a vitamin deficiency.  
(But this information came from a vitamin retailer.  
(Hardly, an unbiased source))


-- 
Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com)  
From the beautiful and historic Mid-Hudson Valley area of NY state
From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Cost Concerns in Med School?
Date: 26 Sep 92 13:35:31 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <auwen.717281878@convex.convex.com> auwen@convex.com (John David Auwen) writes:
>
>As far as I can tell, there's no pressure to produce this kind of 
>equipment for a reasonable price.  The equipment that was used once
>and thrown away cost more than the fees of the 3 doctors (surgeon,
>assistant, anesthesiologist) put together.
>
>Would anyone who knows more about this care to comment on why these
>disposable tools are so expensive?

1) Greed. 

2) Research and testing. You can market a little plastic widget
as a child's toy with little planning beyond making sure the thing
is too big to eat and won't fall apart in the applesauce. Labeling
the same thing as "medical" requires a higher investment.

3) Relatively low sales volume. You can sell zillions of child's
toys. There are only so many cholecystectomies.

4) Potential litigation. Once you label something as "medical" you have
to realize that someone, somewhere, is going to sue for something
related to its use. It may look like a simple clamp, but if it breaks
sometime and kills someone the company that makes it has to pay up. 
Ask the company that made the Bjorg-Shiley (sp?) heart valves - they
look like simple little devices but they are miniature time bombs.

There was an anecdotal story at one time about the medical use of
"superglue" as a tissue adhesive. Apparantly it was used some in
Vietnam under emergency conditions, and performed excellently. After
the war the company reportedly looked into entering the medical
arena in the states and decided that it wasn't worth it. With what
they would have to charge for it to cover their buts, along with
the relatively small volume that would be sold, versus their
existent glue market, it wasn't worth it.

"Orphan drugs" are another example - the low sales volume that would
result from use for the "orphan" condition does not justify doing
any research or testing. There are now laws on the books which give
certain drugs "orphan" designation.


 -km
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: "Problem Patient"
Date: 4 Oct 92 14:04:34 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Oct2.170408.29912@col.hp.com> dag@col.hp.com (David Geiser) writes:
>
>A prospective employer might choose to use an 'information' service,
>i.e. run a background check, on a prospective employee to see if
>he/she has a history of filing for workman's comp.
>
>Are similar information services available for MDs?  If one knew
>that a particular patient was risky, i.e. prone to file for malpractice,
>would that help make a decision about treatment or a course of therapy?
>

I've heard about these, but I don't know anyone who uses them or
if they even exist.








-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David A. Nye MD)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Medline access?
Date: 5 Oct 92 01:11:27 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

Does anyone know how I can access Medline through the Internet?
I know I can access PaperChase through Compu$erve but that is
an absolute last resort.  I have found several university
library systems that offer access to Medline but only to users
within that system (I'm in the UWisc system -- so far I haven't
been able to discover that they offer it).  Access to anything
similar like SilverPlatter or Index Medicus would be helpful.

Also, does anyone know if there is a medical informatics news-
group (and if not, why not)?  It seems like the main focus of
activity in medical informatics is in Compu$erve which I refuse
to use.  
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Subject: Re: Can humans get tapeworms from cats?
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 20:30:41 GMT

In article <1a7fpfINNqjo@cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes:

[...]

>Two morals to this story.  (1) If you want to keep your cat free
>of tapeworms, keep it free of fleas.  If your cat gets fleas, it
>will likely get tapeworms.  (2) Don't swallow those fleas that 
>you bite off your cat!  You'll get tapeworms.

	Seems to me I remember that birds often carry tapeworms as well,
	so if your cat is a good hunter.....


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Arrogance, arthritis, & Banks
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:25:53 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <BvB0ww.9Mv@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
>In other words, they'll learn that it's wrong because you say it 
>is.   Are your pronouncements a reasonable substitute for verifiable
>information?

Look. When I go to an attourney, I ask for information and advice,
not references or arguments. When most people go to a doctor, they
ask for the same things. Is there any particular reason why you
would think that doctors on the net would obviously lie to people,
or speak on things they are not informed on? The only obvious reason
for a doctor on the net to be ignorant is that he/she is spending
too much time on the net. To ask for references on everything is
silly - I don't carry around a reference list for everything that
I know in medicine. That means that if you ask me for references,
I have to go look them up, and I'm sorry, I don't have that kind of
time to spend here. There is also a large body of medicine that is
not backed up with references, is based on the experience of
physicians over the years, and is spread by work of mouth. If you
want to disqualify this information you can take all our licenses
away.

I previously posted my credentials, including license numbers and
certifications. I don't answer questions on the net that: 1) I know
nothing useful about, 2) are not interesting, 3) would take too
much time to answer, or 4) are proposed by an obvious flame thrower.

 -km


Newsgroups: sci.med
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: "Problem Patient"
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:36:00 GMT

In article <6770@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> doyle+@pitt.edu (Howard R Doyle) writes:
>In article <1992Oct3.135230.27052@genie.slhs.udel.edu> nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
>
>>
>>How do you tell the difference between someone with Munchausen's and
>>someone with a problem you don't know how to diagnose? (I'll take your
>>word for it that Munchausen's exists, but I've also heard too many
>>horror stories from people who got told their real diseases were
>>delusional.)
>>
>
>I don't think I have personally come across anyone with Munchausen's,
>although I sometimes wonder if any of the normal appendices I have
>taken out in the past belonged to someone that was just pulling my leg.

When I had bad stomach pain as a teenager, I just told them what they
seemed to want to hear when they were checking for appendicitis. It's
a good thing I did, since my appendix was high enough that they might
not have recognized that I had appendicitis quickly if I hadn't lied.

It just goes to show that there's no policy, even telling the truth
to doctors, which is the right thing to do all the time, though I
certainly wouldn't recommend lying to them as a general thing. 

>[description of patient actually faking symptoms deleted] 

Nancy Lebovitz
nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: bonnie@nmsu.edu (Bonnie Hargrave)
Subject: low thyroid levels, but not hypothyroid
Organization: Computing Research Lab
Distribution: sci
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:07:59 GMT


My doctor says my thyroid levels (T2 and T3, I believe she said) are
low, but that the TSH level (the signal from the brain to the thyroid)
is normal, which means I do _not_ have a hypothyroid condition.

Then she explained that with true hypothyroids, the brain sends
excessive signals to the thyroid in an effort to stimulate it.  This
part makes sense to me.

But can someone explain to me why, if the brain part of me is working,
the thyroid gland part of me is not up to par?  My doctor seems to
have no knowledge of these workings -- either your thyroid produces or
it doesn't and no other factors affect it.  Sounds bogus to me.

Comments?
--

		bonnie@nmsu.edu         
		Bonnie Hargrave        

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: hdavies@rx.xerox.com (Hugh J.E. Davies)
Subject: Re: chapped hands
Reply-To: hdavies@rx.xerox.com
Organization: Rank Xerox Ltd.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:49:34 GMT

In article uupcb@travel.com, roy.rudebusch@travel.com (Roy Rudebusch)  writes:
>Dear Friends;
>
>Thanks!
>I wish I could e-mail each of you who answered my plea for a
>remedy for my chapped hands, (My BBS only allows so much e-mail
>traffic).
>
>In less than a week my hands are healed.
>
>It seems I was allergic to the rubber in my rubber gloves.
>
>I have had this skin condition for 6 years and was beginning to cause a
>problem in my profession, (I am an aspiring professional brewer). A
>brewer has his hands in sterlilants such as: caustic acid, sodium
>hypochlorite (bleach), Iodophor (iodine).
>
>So now I can line my gloves with cotton gloves. Yay!
>
>Hmmm..... I wonder if anybody makes a non-hypo-allergenic rubber glove?
>
>Thanks again!
>
> * OLX 2.2 * From: roy.rudebusch@travel.com
>                                                                        


It is possible to obtain PVC gloves - my mother-in-law uses them since it was discovered that her psoriasis is aggravated by contact with rubber.
---


Regards,

Hugh.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't speak for Xerox, nor they for me.

Rank Xerox European Systems Centre, Welwyn Garden City, Herts., UK.
Mail to; Huge.wgc1@rx.xerox.com, whatever it says in the header.

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Excess Of Vitamin C?
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:52:00 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <4283.466.uupcb@wugate.wustl.edu> carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca) writes:
>
>PR>I believe that Linus Pauling said he takes about 18 grams a day, and
>PR>he seems to be doing pretty well.
>
>BTW, are you familiar with Pauling's reasons for his hypervitamin
>diet? (He takes other vit's in huge amounts, too)
>

When Pauling's book on vitamin C came out, he recommended 1 gram
per day.  After they did studies with 1 gram per day showing no
effect on the frequency of colds in normal volunteers, he said,
"well, it really is 4 grams per day".  So they did those experiments,
still no better than placebo.  I suppose Pauling just keeps escalating
the dose and says they having been giving enough to disprove his
theories.  18 grams is so absurd, it is ridiculous.  There is no
way we could have evolved to require such high doses.  His urine
must corrode his commode something awful.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: bonnie@nmsu.edu (Bonnie Hargrave)
Subject: Re: mitral valve prolapse and need for antibiotics?
Organization: Computing Research Lab
Distribution: sci
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:09:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.221844.18901@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

   Reading too many of those "Yeast Blah-Blah" books, eh? 

Possibly.  Time, effort and whatever it takes to feel better again
will tell.
 
   It's crap like that which makes otherwise rational
   people mistrust perfectly legitimate and _important_ advise given to them
   by reputable physicians.  

OK.  That does it.  I have many other reasons for questioning this
particular doctor's advice.  Yes, she did pooh-pooh the candida
question.  She also thought a hypoglycemia test was unnecessary since
"everyone reacts to sugar".  Her explanation of the latter seemed
reasonable to me.

But, her _lack_ of knowledge of recent findings by the Center for
Disease Control (re:EBV and CFS), her inability to handle basic
questions (for example, would ibuprofen or acetaminophen in large
doses affect the uric acid level), and MOST of all her assumption that
my symptoms are merely mental led both my husband and me to believe
she is, well, in my husband's word, "hopeless."

I've had occasional chest pains since childhood and never thought much
about them.  I asked the doctor about them mainly because my husband
was so concerned.  And it took both he and my mother-in-law two years
to get me into a doctor's office for a complete physical because I
keep thinking these other symptoms will clear up eventually.  Once
they got me to agree that my health was indeed deteriorating I got
into gear.

On the assurance that doctors appreciate seeing the whole picture, I
made up a list of symptoms I've experienced in the last two years.  I
asked the doctor to look over the list and tell me what she thought.
Her reply was that the list indicates a "preoccupation with illness"
and that I should be seeing a psychiatrist.

When the patient loses trust in either the doctor's competence or the
doctor's ability to even _care_, that patient starts to question every
thing the doctor recommends.

   it's the development of resistant organisms which post a danger to others
   in the future.

Yeah.  Even _I_ read that one:^)  in Science News, of course.


   prophylaxis IS a very good reason to take such drugs if you have a
    condition where such is indicated, and the potential consequences
    of NOT doing so could very well lead to permanent impairment or death.

Thank you.  This is the kind of information I was looking for.  It may
not be serious, but then again it _could_ be serious, so in this case
I should probably take the doctor's advice.

			Bonnie
--

		bonnie@nmsu.edu         
		Bonnie Hargrave        

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: andreaf@bonnie.Rational.COM (Andrea Frankel)
Subject: Re: Herpies I/II
Organization: Rational
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:34:52 GMT

On the topic of herpes, can someone send me a list of things known to 
provoke cold sores?  I don't have a medical library in this town, so
apologies in advance for not doing my own research ;@)



Andrea Frankel (andreaf@rational.com) -- Rational, Grass Valley Office
"Wake now!  Discover that you are the song that the morning brings..."