HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rcharbon@athena.mit.edu (Ray Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Heinlein - Politically correct?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:01:12 GMT

In article <1564@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
|> ****oops, attribution lost.  sorry****

|> >As far as PC goes:  Where are the women in Starship Troopers?  Were they
|> >ALL unfit for infantry duty, so that not a single one could make it into
|> >a base camp of 10000 recruits?  Sounds a bit suspect to me...
|> 
|> 	First, I think it's made pretty clear that RAH considers using women
|> in combat a rather silly thing, but...
|> 	Even today, with lots and lots of women in the service (which there
|> weren't when ST was written), the groups are kept segregated to a great
|> extent. It's not unreasonable to assume that in the ST universe, even if there
|> WERE female infantry units, they were trained and deployed in entirely separate
|> camps.

Women were too valuable to use as foot soldiers.  They were scientists, pilots,
etc...


-- 
Ray Charbonneau              | The fifth dentist makes all the money.
rcharbon@athena.mit.edu      |             -- me
MIT and the Library Systems Office are glad that I'm posting my opinions
here so that they don't have to listen to them anymore.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: paul@econ.yale.edu (Paul McGuire)
Subject: Re: F&SF, Asimov's
Organization: Economics Department, Yale University, New Haven, Ct.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 05:59:59 GMT

In article <C0B71E.D4v@panix.com> pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden) writes:
>
>ojvind@chagall.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander) writes:
>>The 1991 Novel and Short Stories Writer's Market lists Analog's circulation
>>at 100,000 and Asimov's at 120,000.
>
>The 1991 Novel and Short Stories Writer's Market is full of it.
>

Since I've got the Feburary issue of both and noticed this, here's the 
real poop.

STATEMENT OF OWNERSHIP, MANAGEMENT AND CIRCULATION (Required by 39 U.S.C.
3685)
[...]
10. Extent and Nature of Circulation: Average No. Copies Each Issue During
Preceeding 12 Months:
(A) Total No. Copies (Net Press Run): 103,600 (IASFM)   107,000 (Analog)
[...]
(C) Total Paid and/or Requested Circulation: 72,000 (IASFM)   78,000 (Analog)
From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Heinlein - Politically correct?
Date: 9 Jan 93 18:00:34 GMT
Distribution: world
Back-References: <a6!39q-@rpi.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics2.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: rog's message of 8 Jan 93 14:30:24 GMT

In <MATT.93Jan8095814@physics2.berkeley.edu> Matt Austern wrote:
> The point, however, is that he *behaves* like a 20th century WASP
> American. 

Wrong.  For starters, Johnny Rico wears jewelry and makeup.  Reread the
book more carefully next time.
-- 
					Eric S. Raymond <esr@snark.thyrsus.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Covenant/LotR parallels? (Was Re: Amber: )
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Date: 9 Jan 93 13:34:06 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1ilo8uINNn7v@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes:
>In <1600@blue.cis.pitt.edu> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu writes:
>> single piece of good fantasy since Tolkien. I felt that the Covenant
>> Trilogies were original as hell, and that Mordant's Need was magnificent.
>> (Both by S.R. Donaldson, but I don't like his latest...).

>  Well, there are painfully obvious parallells between Covenant and LOTR, but
>Donaldson took a different direction via characterization.  I loved them too,
>but anyway...

	Parallels? Like, what? Offhand, I can only see:
	1) It's an epic. This is hardly a parallel, since tons of epics came
before and after LotR.
	2) A central "thing" in the book is a Ring of Great Power. However,
Rings of Power were hardly unique to Tolkien, and the manner of operation and
nature of the Power were completely different.
	3) The central character who has the Ring is reluctant to set out
on his quest. However, the nature of the character and his reasons for being
reluctant were completely different.

	I'm trying to come up with others, and running into a blank. There's
no real parallel for Gandalf, the thread that holds all of them together;
Foamfollower as Sam Gamgee? Some vague similarity there, but not much. No
Gollum. The Ravers could, possibly, be seen as somewhat parallel to the
Ringwraiths, but their nature and mode of operation is so drastically 
different that it's really reaching. (Ringwraiths were corrupted people,
Ravers were inherent spirits of destruction; Ringwraiths had to fight in
the same way as men, Ravers could posess people; etc.)


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Viscount of Adrilankha
Date: 13 Jan 93 01:37:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1993Jan13.013740.19367
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden):
>>Brust's sequel to "The Phoenix Guards" has been turned in -- "The Viscount
>>of Adrilankha".  (Actually, from what I understand, the sequel to TPG is
>>"Five Hundred Years After"...so Viscount will probably be third.

>You're confused.  The sequel to THE PHOENIX GUARDS will be FIVE HUNDRED
>YEARS AFTER.  The _next_ book in the trilogy will be THE VISCOUNT OF
>ADILANKHA, which will itself be a three-decker.

Yes, I'm confused, but obviously not about this. :)

>>Now who would the Viscount be?  I take it that...the Viscount
>>is the son of either Pel or Aerich -- which corresponds to Athos.  But
>>I can't decide which:  Both have Athos-type backgrounds and Aramis-type
>>behavior.  Or am I missing something obvious?

>I'm going to invoke publisher privilege and say Wait And See.  <g>

Tnx.

I tnk.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

Roses red and violets blew
  and all the sweetest flowres that in the forrest grew -- Edmund Spenser
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: The Illuminatus trilogy
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:03:26 GMT

A10JBE8@niu.BITNET:
>[The Illuminatus Trilogy, by Robert Shea <fnord> and Robert Wilson.]
>I am not only completely enthralled, but I am questioning just how
>fictional the story really is.... how much of this is based on fact?

That the world is controlled by a network of conspiracies, and that
these conspiracies have a common origin and inspiration in Atlantis
is undoubtedly true.  However, the details have been fudged to keep
the book from being suppressed, so if the authors mention the CIA or
the KGB or the Masons, you know that these are only stand-ins for the
organizations that are *really* in control.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

  The surface of the strange, forbidden planet was roughly textured and green,
  much like cottage cheese gets way after the date on the lid says it is all 
  right to buy it.--Scott Jones
From: john@sekrit.WPI.EDU (John Stoffel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: George RR Martin
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:39:58 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: sekrit.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: tyg@HQ.Ileaf.COM's message of 6 Jan 93 21:44:24 GMT

>>>>> On 6 Jan 93 21:44:24 GMT, tyg@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Tom Galloway) said:

Tom> In article <1993Jan6.144202@axion.bt.co.uk> jgraham@axion.bt.co.uk (John Graham) writes:

Re: George R. R. Martin

>- What other fiction he has written since the mid-eighties

Tom> Quite a bit...unfortunately just about all of it has been either for Wild
[...]
Tom> I mean, I like Wild Cards and his television work, but I've liked his
Tom> solo novels more.

Hear hear!  I'd love for him to get back into Solo work again, or
maybe I should just get a TV again after six years of not having one
around... nah, my brain would melt.

I read the first four to six of the wild cards series, and while they
were ok, I was getting tired of them, and wishing for something new
and original.  I'm sure everyone else has noticed the amazing growth
of the "Think of a Universe and invite others to write in it"
syndrome.  It's usually good at first, then goes down hill from
there...

			John
--
Youth of today!  Join me in a mass rally for traditional mental attitudes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
john@wpi.wpi.edu | Work Station Specialist | Worcester Polytechnic Institute
John Stoffel     | 508-831-5512 (work)     | Worcester, MA  01609
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dstein@charon.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: A sort-of apology to Mr. Stein
Reply-To: dstein@charon.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Organization: UCLA, Mathematics Department
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 22:48:32 GMT

Eric S. Raymond writes:

|> Mr. Stein: if you were offended by this, I apologize -- I wasn't kidding
|> about respecting your intelligence.  I guess I even owe Bret Jolly
some thanks;
|> obnoxious pimple though he's being, he did motivate me to go back and look
|> at what I'd written with a critical eye.

  I was not offended by your dismissal of my qualifications to question your
assertions.  I was somewhat amused and puzzled.  In the light of your defense
of the Davis Drive, i.e. an unortodox view by a non-expert, your dismissal
seemed a bit ironic.  And in the view of the corrections you had to endure
from your own camp on the few facts you gave, the dismissal appears dubious.

  I also think that insulting someone else within an apology is disingenuous.
And if Bret's calling you a "pompous windbag" made you reconsider something,
I don't think that your calling him an "obnoxious pimple" will be productive
in any sense.  Nor will your contempt over his phrase "saifai" substitute for
an argument.  I went through enough disputes and disagreements with Bret to
gain a respect for both his intellect and independence.  Hope you will too.

  All in all, I must say I would much rather see you going back to 
_Raymond's Reviews_ then playing a High Priest of SF.  Both the net
and you would gain, in my opinion.

 - David
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Gripping Hand
Date: 8 Jan 1993 18:57:20 GMT
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: uhad2.admin.uh.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <9301080721.AA18439@rutgers.edu> BECKS@TAUNIVM.TAU.AC.IL writes:

> 
> The appearance of the sequel to "The Mote in God's Eye" rouses me to
> comment on the original. Since I don't want to ruin anyone's reading
> pleasure nor to attract needless flames, I will start by saying that
> loyal fans of Niven and Pournelle may not want to read this.  OK?
> 
> "The Mote.." was a thoroughly mean-spirited book.  It did have
> certain points of pathological interest. It was a good example of
> anti-semitism according to the strictly linguistic, or Bobby Fischer,
> definition, namely it was offensive and demeaning to Jews and Arabs
> alike. 

 I don't see this.  Certainly it was not pervasive.  If you wish to consider
that the use of Horace Bury was an example of anti-semitism, I think you
take things much to far.  Neither Judaism or Islam was criticized, Jews as a
people were not attacked and considered inferior, nor were Arabs.  Bury, though
a scoundrel, was obviously a very intelligent man.

> It also had yet another example of Niven's quite extraordinary
> misogyny, which I don't think has been mentioned on the net.  If a

  Well, having read very little of Niven alone, I can't comment to this.  I
can't say I've seen it in his collaborative works with Pournelle or Barnes,
though.


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
From: matt@zurna.UUCP (Matt Karasu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: a good story
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:58:43 GMT


  well all this is very fine. I mean with morphing, and using other peoples ideas. But what I would like to know is what good sf show out there has   the most outlandish and creative story?
   Even the first stories of TNG were remakes of the old ST. But I did      enjoy them. This Highlander thing?NO. DS9? maybe I'll stick with them,    they havent had time to get accustomed to their characters yet. At least I hope thats what it is. 
  Good acting. outlandish sf stories. And that defintion evasive term     `Quality'. Any suggestions?
MIK.a bookish lemming.
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Gripping Hand
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:48:42 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <=_#311b@rpi.edu>, by kasprj@vccnw03.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak):
>  Niven has given Man-Kzin Wars his stamp of approval, so we can consider 
> them to be canon.

>  Also, there are hints in that series that the Kzinti breeding patterns 
> have actually produced females who are good at hiding their intelligence,
> or who use it for different things, rather than being nonsentient. Of 
> course the Kzinti males would never bring themselves to admit this...

Unfortunately that has no bearing on the current thread, since the
ideas in that series are not Niven's.
-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird P. Broadfield)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: bujold and ellison q's
Date: 9 Jan 93 01:51:43 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: "Well, a head on top, an arm on each side, two legs...."

In <1993Jan4.104256.1@skcla.monsanto.com> jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
>In article <1992Dec26.143128.16631@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>, iqv@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>> 
>> #1)  Is "Vor Game" part of a series?  If it is, what's the order for the
>> series, and will it spoil it if I read "Vor Game"  First?

>  Bujold has written nine books in that universe, not all involving Miles
>  Vorkosigan.
[list...]
>Read them in any order.  They spoil each other slightly, but only on minor
>details.  The order above is chronological for the characters, not as they were
>written.

I would disagree; Vor Game in particular is infinitely helped by an
understanding of Barrayaran culture.  Not that it would be a mistake
to read first, but as you read the others you would find yourself going
"oh!  now i understand better!" quite often.  Honestly, I would read
them in order of *publication*, or at least leave Vor Game and Barrayar
until later.  (Note: IMO, Ethan of Athos may be skipped entirely, not
up to the rest in writing quality.  Okay plot and situations, but sub-
standard writing, and not really integral to the "series".  Falling Free
on the other hand has only the universe in common (I don't think there
are any shared characters with the Vorkosigan books) but is much better
written.)

-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: gip207@sci.kun.nl (gip2 course)
Subject: Re: Sturgeon's Law (was Re: Who killed SF???
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:02:19 GMT

>>YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:
>>
>>It occured to me that Sturgeon's Law is almost as well know as Murphy's
>>Law.  There's an explanation in the FAQ about Clarke's Laws because
>>every once in a while, someone would ask about them (well actually only
>>about one of them).  But no one's *ever* asked about Sturgeon's Law.
>>

OK, you asked for it: WHAT IS STURGEON'S LAW? (seriously, I really don't
know, only thing I've ever read of Sturgeon is some of his short-stories).

			-Me
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: George RR Martin
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 12:52:46 GMT

In article <C0I04u.MBr@SSD.intel.com>, davidl@ssd.intel.com (David Levine) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan7.165935.13580@julian.uwo.ca> jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
|> >Industrially-produced  fiction is  clearly a better  investment for
|> >publishers  than fiction  produced  with the  same  pre-industrial
|> >techniques  obsolete  writers  like Dumas  or  Poe used.
|> 
|> Great idea, bad example.  Dumas is one pre-industrial writer who used
|> modern writing techniques -- not mass production, but contract labor.  Most
|> of "Dumas'" tremendous output was produced by anonymous writers working for
|> hire under Dumas' name.  We'll never know for sure which works were really
|> Dumas'.  However, I loved the post; it was dead on the money.
 
 If sarcasm were posted on the Net, would anyone notice?
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *|          he who refuses to do nonsense  
     \_|          is doomed to talk arithmetic.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:16997 rec.arts.books:23969
From: markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:01:42 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

In article <1icqfqINN8jg@agate.berkeley.edu> oliver@madrone.CS.Berkeley.EDU 
(Oliver Sharp) writes:
>I'm curious.  So far, nobody I've seen has spoken up in favor of guided 
>reading.  Am I the only one who has *liked* my literature classes?  I'm
>a voracious reader and am quite capable of drowning myself in piles of
>books all on my own, so it isn't a desire to be spoon-fed.  Nevertheless,
>I've discovered many splendid and gloriously written books in the reading
>lists for courses.  I was lucky enough to have several inspiring and
>insightful professors who opened up new worlds for me.  

Which suggests that "inspiring and insightful professors" are more effective
than reading lists.  Unfortunately only reading lists can be mechanically
reproduced.
From: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Michael McCollum
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:27:52 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <1993Jan8.065249.7065@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
>What about _A Greater Infinity_?  He sort of ended that one on a cliff-
>hanger.

I think it was really ment to be a one-shot tribute to H. Beam Piper's
Paratime series.  (Though it was a lot sillier than Piper's stuff ever was.  A
fun book.)

-- 
Michael Rawdon				  rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department,  Madison, WI

"...I trusted [Ganelon] like a brother.  That is to say, not at all."
				- Roger Zelazny, _The_Guns_Of_Avalon_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: Prometheus Awards?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:04:44 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.232802.11136@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com writes:
> I would appreciate it if someone could send me (or, I suppose, post)
> an up-to-date list or pointer to an up-to-date list of Prometheus
> Award winners.

The Prometheus Awards (and the Hugo Awards, and the Nebula Awards) are
available via anonymous FTP from the SF-Lovers archives on
gandalf.rutgers.edu (in /pub/sfl, I believe, but start with /pub and
work your way down).

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"To make the point [that homosexuals hamper military effectiveness] I'd
say that you would have to sift through your military history till you
find an instance in which failure has been attributed to the presence
of homosexuals on the losing side.  I'm not aware of any such case in
the past 2500 years, but I'd be interested to hear what you find."
-Nathan Engle
From: nicolas@stam.nl (Nico Veenkamp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Dan Simmons - Hyperion
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 14:00:34 +0100
Organization: Stam Tijdschriften bv, Rijswijk, The Netherlands

In <jvessey.726219452@husc.harvard.edu> jvessey@husc10.harvard.edu (Jonathan Vessey) writes:

>am looking for recommendations of other books by Simmons that are worth 
>reading. I'm primarily interested in SF, though I know he writes horror, too,
>and if a horror work were good enough, I'd consider reading it, too. Does   
>anyone have any suggestions?

Yes. Although I am not a horror fan I liked his Song of Kali. Also
his more mainstreamtype novel Faces of Gravity was very good.


-- 
      *================================================================*
      |  Nico Veenkamp	        | You write, we publish                |
      |  Stam Tijdschriften bv  | -------------------------------------|
      |  P.O. Box 235           | Internet : nicolas@stam.nl           |
      |  2280 AE  Rijswijk      | FidoNet  : 2:281/1.7                 |
      |  The Netherlands        | BIX      : nicolas                   |
      *================================================================*
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.physics,sci.skeptic
From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Davis Mechanics (was Re: John Woods Campbell)
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:35:08 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

To be more precise, it makes no sense to talk about an
incompressible bar in a relativity thought experiment, because
"incompressible" means (among other things) "infinite speed of 
sound". Note that it can still make perfect sense to suppose 
an incompressible bar in many Newtonian (non-relativistic) 
mechanics thought experiments, if one is not concerned with
the speed of momentum transfer. The fact that such a bar is 
impossible to make is irrelevent to BOTH kinds of thought
experiment.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: shaw@physics.wm.edu (John Shaw)
Subject: Re: Help, Locating Novel (The Invasion of Mars
Reply-To: shaw@physics.wm.edu
Organization: Rio de Caca Illuminati
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:30:51 GMT

The book is _Edison's Conquest of Mars_ by  Garrett P. Serviss.  Check my
spelling of Serviss.  He also wrote some popular astronomy books around
1900 or so.   Parts of the book were collected in an anthology in the 1950's,
I think the anthology was edited by Anthony Boucher.  The anthology also
contains R.U.R by Capek  and selections from _Last and First Men_ by 
Stapledon.

I have the anthology at home and can't remember the exact title...

John A. Shaw