HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dhukill@esprit.prime.com (Dave Hukill x4056 5-1)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna's an ass!
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:25:01 GMT

David_McCullum@mindlink.bc.ca (David McCullum) writes:
> You know I thought that we were all over this Nigel vs. Ayrton horseshit. Who
> cares whether you like one or the other. Who cares what you think you saw on
> ESPN/TSN/Whatever else you watch. I firmly believe that most of us are
> interested in what you know about what is happening, or what you have
> heard/read is or may be happening.
> 
> This chauvinistic fan-clubbing is revolting.
> 
> Go ahead....
> 

 I agree...somewhat. I don't root for anyone in particular, but I do want to
see a good race, and it seems that Senna's over-aggresiveness has gotten the
better of him yet again. It cost him a possible World Championship at Japan
in 1988 (IMHO, both Prost and Senna were at fault), and it's cost him at
other times. As I said before, I don't tend to root for or bash anyone, but
I must admit, I have never forgiven Senna for taking out Prost in turn 1 at
Japan in 1989. Senna seems to have no respect for the fans - I was looking
forward to a great finish to the Formula 1 season...Ferrari vs McLaren...
Prost vs Senna, and it was over at turn 1. Thanks alot Ayrton. Revenge?!
Horseshit!!! More like vindictive sore-loserness!!! I apologize to the other
netters for opening up this can of worms for the nth time, but after another
ho-hum ending to the Formula 1 season, I think I'll start watching NASCAR,
where the technology may not be as fascinating, but at least I'll see a good
race, EVERY race.

'Go ahead' Senna fans, flame away. I could really care less.

Your frustrated Formula 1 fan - 
Dave Hukill <dhukill@esprit.prime.com>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: andy@newton.cs.clemson.edu (Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna's an ass!
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:07:18 GMT
Organization: Clemson University Computer Science Dept.

In article <36970@cbmvax.commodore.com> bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson - Amiga Networking) writes:
>
>No one can see into his mind so know one really knows. But once Senna had
>admitted that he had, indeed, punted Prost of course in Japan _on purpose_
>he left himself open to such charges forever more. 
>
  And I suppose that Mansell, having never admitted to any mistake, is
above suspicion.

--
  Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS    |  Some people can tell what time it is by
  andy@cs.clemson.edu             |  looking at the Sun, but I have never been
  [andy@cs.widener.edu]           |  able to make out the numbers.
-----------------------***STANDARD DISCLAIMERS APPLY***------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: 10702296@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (DECLAN MC)
Subject: Re: F1: Tyrrell Announce Yamaha Deal
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 04:25:12 GMT

In article <720921233.26440@minster.york.ac.uk> pete@minster.york.ac.uk writes:
>Path: monu6!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!munnari.oz.au!sgiblab!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!ames!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!yorkohm!minster!pete
>From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
>Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
>Subject: Re: F1: Tyrrell Announce Yamaha Deal
>Message-ID: <720921233.26440@minster.york.ac.uk>
>Date: 4 Nov 92 23:53:53 GMT
>References: <1992Nov3.180007.11429@gdr.bath.ac.uk>
>Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England
>Lines: 15
>Andrew Henry (bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk) wrote:
>: 
>: This makes four engines in four years for Tyrrell.  The deal is 
>: for two years. Given that Yamaha's contract with Jordan was for 
>: four years, and it lasted one, does this herald a mid-season
>: engine swap for Ken's team ?  :-)
>
>Four engines in four years never hurt Toleman/Benetton much -- Hart, BMW, 
>Cosworth turbo and DFR (1985-88)

Tyrell will be hurtin' heaps!
Just look at what happened to the Jordan team this year, Tyrell will be 
languishing among the back markers next season, wait and see!
The Yamaha engine is a lemon, Jordan were glad to see the back of it.

Declan McCreesh
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen)
Subject: Re: F1 Engines (was Re: F1: Tyrrell Announce Yamaha Deal)
Organization: Waterloo Engineering Software
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:09:27 GMT

> JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu (Jonathan Swaby) writes:
>  |It wont be the same Yamaha engine. It will be a Judd V-10 with Yamaha
>  |valve covers. The Judd engine is not bad, perhaps more  reliable than
>  |the Ilmor Tyrrell ran last year.

First, I think the Judd V10 can be a lot better yet next year, if Yamaha
gives John Judd a solid development budget.  I thought the engine was a
very neat and well-done package in last year's Dallaras (and JJ got a 3rd
at San Marino with it), but it *was* a low-budget engine.

uemura@isl.melco.co.jp (Joe Uemura) writes:
> I keep hearing about Hart V10s, Ilmor, Judd, etc. I believe all these 
> engines are named after their tuners. Does anyone know who actually makes the
> base engines these folks tune? Also, as Jonathan implies above, will
> next year's Yamaha engine be a simple relabeled Judd V10 engine? If so,
> who makes the base Judd engine - Judd himself? 

Yup.  Judd, Hart, Ilmor (aka Sauber) and Cosworth (aka Ford) are all ground-
up designs by these independent engine designers.  I gotta have a lot of
respect for John Judd especially to be able to build that good an engine
on a shoestring budget -- and maybe Hart can do even better.

Next year's Yamaha V10 will likely be a second generation development of
the Judd GV, along the lines of an RS1 vs RS2, or RA121 vs RA122.

What -- am I going to have to cheer for Tyrrell, too, now?  :)

[ \tom haapanen    "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
[ tomh@wes.on.ca                   "trust the programmer" -- ansi c standard ]
[ waterloo engineering software      "to thine own self be true" -- polonius ]
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: Re: More Sauber Tests at Barcelona
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:43:05 GMT

In article <1ddqmqINN3g1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Richard Banks) writes in response to Dan Jones and Toby Vaughn Padfield:

|> You both *know* what you are missing.  I'll just go ahead and say it for
|> you.  You are both trying to imply that the Sauber-Illmor is a better car
|> that the Williams-Renault.

Aw, come on.  There are a lot of possible interpretations of the test
results.  One could indeed be that the Sauber-Ilmor C12 is better than
the Williams-Renault FW14.  Another one could be that Karl Wendlinger is
a better driver than 1992 World Champion Nigel Mansell.  Although I'd
be very happy if one of the two (or even both of them) is true, the
jury on Sauber/Ilmor/Wendlinger is still out.  The real test comes in
the next season, because
1) the track conditions for the Sauber tests may have been better than
   in May,
2) Goodyear may have concocted better tire compounds in the meantime
etc. etc.
Besides, even if the Sauber C12 _were_ better than the FW14, we should
not forget that Williams will field the FW15 next year.

And I'm sure both Dan and Toby know this, too.

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: comptec92070@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Mansell's Foot Surgery--Anyone???
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:44:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.220926.4012@hubcap.clemson.edu>, csroach@eng.clemson.edu (Shane Roach) writes:
> I just remembered something I noticed in the newspaper this weekend in the
> all-too-rare F1 article.  I don't recall the exact wording, but when asked
> what he'd be doing before starting testing with Newman-Haas, he said he was
> going to have some minor foot operation, then play golf with neighbor Greg
> Norman.  That struck me as a bit odd, as I hadn't heard anything about this,
> either here on the net or anywhere else.  Anybody know what the deal is?
> 
> 
> Shane Roach
> csroach@eng.clemson.edu


    Mansell has been saying that after an accident a few years ago he 
has had some sort of a bone spur (?) in his left foot that causes great 
pain when pressure is applied to it. He offers this as explanation for
his frequent limping displays after finishing races. This would certainly
account for the great difficulty he encountered when sprinting across
the track after crashing out of the Australian GP. He says that the 
clutchless semi-auto gearboxes he has used during the past four years
have covered up the problem but in preparation for his move to
Formula Friendly and his clutch-equipped Lola he will need the surgery.

   Sylvan.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: anc@prg.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1 Stuff
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:01:25 GMT
X-Mailer: mail-news 2.0.3


OK to chris i know "moving bits" have been barred but what defines
moving.  Everything and i mean EVERYTHING moves under certain
conditions, that includes carbon fibre. Heat, freezing temps and
other qualities make things react in a different way. We can only
wait and see.

Let me say that Williams budget for lawyers was more that Andrea Moda's
was for the whole season.

Alan
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:53:15 EST
From: Jonathan Swaby <JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Parmalat

I thought that it (Paramalat) sold dairy products. I can't remember
where I heard or read this.

Jonathan Swaby
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:48:48 EST
From: <BWF2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Petty's numbers
 <BxMCCw.rG@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>

In article <BxMCCw.rG@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, wlay@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Radio
90.1 FM WLAY Tarkington Hall) says:


>Wouldn't it be nice to see Dale and the #3 send Kirk Shelmerdine off in style
>with a VICTORY!!!
                    NN   N   OOOOO  TTTTTTT !!
                    N N  N   O   O     T    !!
                    N  N N   O   O     T    !!
                    N   NN   OOOOO     T    !!
>On the Winston Cup:

>        GO #7 HOOTERS!!!!

   GO #11 BUDWEISER! Make it an AWESOME championship!
  Brian ' looking for #2 in 92! " France
>Ron

>                           wlay@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
>                             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> 90.1 FM  WLAY  Tarkington Hall -=- "West Lafayette's Get Lucky Radio
>Station."
From: msorsini@eos.ncsu.edu (MARCO SALVADOR ORSINI)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Parmalat
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:12:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncsu.1992Nov13.181227.2783
Reply-To: msorsini@eos.ncsu.edu (MARCO SALVADOR ORSINI)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: msorsini@c00569-1403br.eos.ncsu.edu


In article <1e0qbsINNfu3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cg894@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Lee Wilson) writes:
|>Path: taco!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cg894
|>From: cg894@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Lee Wilson)
|>Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
|>Subject: Parmalat
|>Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 12:58:20 EST
|>Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
|>Lines: 8
|>Message-ID: <1e0qbsINNfu3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu
|>
|>
|>Could someone tell me what type of company Parmalat is or was?
|>They sponsored Piquet's Brabham for a number of years, and I
|>was just curious what they did.
|>-- 
|>      
|>Brian Wilson...                 Not from the Beach Boys!
|>
|>

      I believe that they sell milk in Europe.  I seem to
  remember seeing milk packaged by them in those funny little boxes
   in the early eighties.


   hope it helps

  Marco S. Orsini
From: parfrk@rs6418.ecs.rpi.edu (Karl Andrew Parfrey)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Re: F1 Stuff
Date: 12 Nov 92 04:51:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: rpi.rnq1vjh
Reply-To: parfrk@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.


|> generated. Straight line speed would be much greater without the drag
|> created by the wing; it would also increase fuel economy. Back in the

I recall reading an interview of (then) Benneton designer Rory Byrne
(speaking of the B188 or B189, I believe) in which he stated that
a F1 car's c_d is "well over 1.0" (i.e. worse than a brick!)
and that without the wings/undertray an F1 car would "easily do 300 mph".
	-Kap

-- 
Kap Parfrey   (parfrk@rpi.edu)			The opinions expressed
Center for Composite Materials  		herein are not my own
 and Structures 				but rather those of my
Dept of Mechanical Engineering 			employer. I am merely a
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute		puppet of the regime.
Troy Ny USA 						- Pinochio
From: agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92))
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell and Senna
Date: 10 Nov 92 14:20:37 GMT
Organization: American Solutions, Inc., Melbourne, Florida 32901

Much stuff deleted.

The terrible thing is that once again, two of the best F1 drivers came
together in a controversial incident.  I'm not particularly for or against
either Mansell or Senna.  I consider that I'm losing something when there
is a pattern of incidents.  Thank goodness todays cars are strong and we
are not seeing drivers getting hurt (or worse).

>btw:  the ESPN coverage was awful.  Someone suggested that Hobbs and
>Varsha weren't even there, and I believe it.  The only pit shots semed
>like they were from the world feed.  And it took them a long time to
>replay the above accident.

This thought also came to mind.  It is not clear they were anywhere 
other than ESPNs studio.  At least we get coverage.  How do we get
better coverage?  
-- 
Grayson Walker                                           CHC, Maitland, Florida 
Forza!                                            Internet: agwiii@fang.att.com
Voice: 407 660 7949               ". . . big brown river . . ." Tuli Kupferberg
From: igb@fulcrum.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: More Sauber Tests at Barcelona
Date: 9 Nov 92 12:53:18 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

In article <184158@pyramid.pyramid.com> danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones) writes:
> <sarcasm on>
> Therefore, I would like to say that the F3000 Reynard is a better car
> than the F1 Ferrari.
> <sarcasm off>

From watching F3000 racing this year, and the ``handling'' of this
year's Ferrari, I don't see quite what is so stupid about this
comparison.  I rather suspect Gerhard is hoping for change.

ian
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: andy@poe.cs.clemson.edu (Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS)
Subject: Re: Senna's an ass!
Organization: Clemson University Computer Science Dept.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:43:32 GMT

In article <433@rehab1.UUCP> dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein) writes:
>
> What an ass! Based on the final race accidents that Senna has been involved
>in the last few years, I tend to think 'he took Nigel out'! Why not? He had
>nothing to lose, it seems that unless Senna had some kind of a failure
>(brakes?) he was just driving over his head. Perhaps a years rest will help
>to stop his all to common problems in those final races. It would be very
>unsportsman like if Senna took ol Nigel out just to stop him from setting
>another record (most wins in a season).
>
  I don't know what caused the accident between Senna and Mansell, at
least not yet.  I do find it interesting to see how many people want
to jump on the Senna bashing bandwaggon before they know too.  You say
that Senna had nothing to loose by taking out Mansell, I am not sure
if this is true.  Senna looked, for the first time this season, that
he could compete with the Williams on the track.  If he had passed
Mansell he could have won the race.  On the other hand, what did he
have to gain by taking Mansell out?  Nothing at all that I can see.

  When I watched the incident on replay, it is clear that Senna is going
sideways when he hit Mansell.  It looks very much like he was trying
to avoid a collision.  I also find it quite interesting to compare
this incident to last years episode between Senna and Prost at
Hockenheim.  A lot of people were very critical of Senna for his braking
tactics, but how many of those people would be critical of Mansell if
it turned out he "brake tested" Senna?

--
  Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS    |  Some people can tell what time it is by
  andy@cs.clemson.edu             |  looking at the Sun, but I have never been
  [andy@cs.widener.edu]           |  able to make out the numbers.
-----------------------***STANDARD DISCLAIMERS APPLY***------------------------
From: marti@inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: More Sauber Tests at Barcelona
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:24:17 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

In article <1dbt41INN9n1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Richard Banks) writes:
>In a previous article, marti@inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) says:
>>Last week, Wendlinger clocked 1:21.51 at Barcelona.  Today's daily
>>newspaper says that Karl Wendlinger, driving the Sauber-Ilmor,
>>clocked a new best of 1:20.04 at Barcelona.  Nigel Mansell's pole
>>time at the GP in May was 1:20.19.
>
>Doesn't Barcelona have a long straight?
>Wasn't he using 93 tires?

As I wrote in an earlier article, Sauber has said that they'll do the
first tests according to the 92 regulations, so I assume they used the
92 setup.  However, I can't be sure since the info is from a mini-
article printed in the sports section of the largest daily newspaper
in Zurich (which in turn is the city with most inhabitants in Switzer-
land, something like 350'000).

-- 
Robert Marti                        Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Institut fur Informationssysteme
ETH-Zentrum                         Internet: marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland         UUCP:     ...uunet!mcvax!ethz!marti
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Re: Senna's an ass!
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:52:38 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Nov9.142713.8903@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:
>In article <433@rehab1.UUCP>, dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein) writes
>on the Senna-Mansell incident:
>|> What an ass! Based on the final race accidents that Senna has
>|> been involved in the last few years, I tend to think 'he took
>|> Nigel out'! Why not? He had nothing to lose, it seems that unless
>|> Senna had some kind of a failure (brakes?) he was just driving
>|> over his head.
>
>The way I see it, there are two possibilities:
>1) Senna punted Mansell off on purpose.  Considering Senna's track
>   record, I have to agree with Dan that this is (unfortunately)
>   a very real possibility.

As soon as I saw the accident I just *knew* there were going to be
postings to the net accusing Senna of deliberately crashing into
Mansell.  I see my faith in my fellow netters is justified :-)

>2) Senna made a stupid mistake.  This would be extremely embarrassing,
>   considering how he intimidated Schumacher for his taking the
>   inside line at Magny Cours and bumping into Senna.  (Btw: I'm
>   convinced that Senna could have avoided that accident but just
>   didn't give a damn.)
>
>Either way, Dan Schein's subject line seems to hit the nail right
>on its head.

A few facts.

    1)  There was a slower-moving car on the track just ahead of
        Mansell & Senna.  Mansell appeared to brake for the turn a
        little early - maybe he was trying to avoid being boxed in.

    2)  Mansell has never been reticent about blaming Senna for any
        incident.  But he did not hang around at the accident site
        and remonstrate with Senna - he headed straight back to the
        pits and locked himself inside the Williams trailer.

From my perspective it looked as though Senna definitely braked well
after Mansell.  He did not appear to notice that he was closing on
the Williams until very late, at which time he put on the maximum
amount of brake he could (have a look at how his head jerks around in
the cockpit just before the collision).  I put the incident down to
`Senna brain fade' when I first saw it, and did not see anything in
the replays to make me change my opinion. The fact that Senna escaped
without being slugged does, however, raise a few doubts in my mind.
-- 
John Francis                                 johnf@apollo.hp.com
with 9 cats to feed, I don't have time to think up a clever .sig
From: dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: seeya yamaha!
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:33:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Nov10.193308.25935
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

>
>Next year's Yamaha is going to be basically the Judd V10 with some minor
>revisions. It looks like Yamaha have finally realised (after the crap 1989
>V8 and the marginally better 1991 V12) that they can't build engines!

I dunno, I think Yamaha's engine for the Taurus SHO is excellent and their
boat motors are the best made.  It's just a question of focus and $$$...

-- 
Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
dafuller@sequent.com
From: jaslow@bissun.kodak.com (Russell Jaslow)
Subject: Re: open-wheel drag (Re: F1 Stuff)
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:59:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.155018.28582@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> slana@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (charles.e.slana) writes:
>Cd's of the same car equipped with '92 tires vs '93 tires.  Actually, I'd
>also like to see a Cd comparison between an Indy Car, a F1 car, and
>either a WSC or IMSA GTP car.
>

Can't give you the exact comparison you want, but how about a bit of memory
recall (i.e., may not be reliable).
I once heard an Indy Car Cd is 1.2.
Compare this to my '82 RX-7 which is .34.
And even that is outdated, as mini-vans now do better than my sports car!!!
-- 
Russell Jaslow         |Spec Racer #33 Finger Lakes Reg|NY RANGERS|My employer
Eastman Kodak Company  |In memorium: Andrew Spiller,   |and the   |has nothing
Rochester, New York    |Cynthia Bishop Halstead.  Keep |Cup!  Why |to do with
jaslow@bissun.kodak.com|the damn drunks off our roads! |not dream?|my drivel.
From: hpb@hpb.cis.pitt.edu (Harry Bloomberg)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Nissan leaving IMSA GTP for IndyCar
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:51:53 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov11.032805.4425@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>
>According to the USA Today Sports newsgroup, Team Nissan are pulling out of
>GTP competition, both IMSA Camel GT Series and Le Mans, and instead will field
>an IndyCar team.  The article said that Nissan is doing this because the
>recession has forced them to re-evaluate the marketing aspect of their sports
>car program.
>
   Will they be merely sponsoring a team, or will Nissan build a chassis
and engine?

   If they try to build their own car, I wonder if they'll have the same
success as Porche and Alfa. :-) :-)  It's tough for a new kid on the
block to break into the Indy playground.

Harry Bloomberg
hpb@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport