HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten)
Subject: Illusions outside Aysle
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 20:15:00 GMT

Begin forwarded message:


Fireballs are not illusory spells if taken from the grimoire.  They
are conjured from nothing, or altered from a ball of pitch.  You can
disbelieve right until someone throws an asbestos blanket around you
and rolls you on the ground.  You are still going to burn.

CJW

Right. However, there is nothing to stop you from making an illusiary
fireball, and then having that thrown about.


|  Heaven:   A place where the French are the cooks, the German are  |
|             the engineers, and the British are the policemen.      |
|                                                                    |
|  Hell:     A place where the British are the cooks, the French are |
|             the engineers, and the German are the policemen.       |


????: The Germans are the cooks, the British are the engineers,
	and the French are the policemen.
--
		Michael Gersten		michael@stb.info.com
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From: gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Illusions outside Aysle
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:05:12 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <gatemail1.0b24814264118140@morticia> WYNNE.C@fs.sciences.WLU.EDU (Colin J. Wynne) writes:
>michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten) writes:
>
>> Because an illusion of a bridge requires the law of observation to
>> make it real, and capable of supporting weight. LOO(k) only
>> operates within Aylse. Therefore, outside of Aylse it will hold no
>> weight.
>
>But I'm saying that it is not the LoObs.

It is. 

>The bridge is visible.  It is real already.  

No it isn't.

>Just because something is real does *not* mean that
>it must satisfy its own existence to all five senses.

Yes, it does.

>Are Psionics real?  What senses do you use to justify their 'reality'?

Psionics aren't illusions.

>The matter of the bridge holding weight is a function of a pattern
>for the spell, not of the LoObs.

The Pattern determines the size of the illusion, not whether it can hold 
weight. The observers give it whatever powers (to hold weight, etc.) they
believe it would have. Personally, I love the irony. I guess Dominant Vison
'removes' the caster from this process; they neither believe, and 
give it tangibility (in Aysle), nor do they disbelieve, and make it vanish. 

I guess the consensus is (more or less) that illusions outside of Aysle can 
persuade, intimidate, etc., but not do physical damage. I might allow mental
damage; after all, the backlash is still real, I have to give the caster
*something* for his trouble. Thanks.

>CJW

The Grant Man
gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

"This is good[beer]. Remind me to take this world."-Lost Destiny


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re:  The Gods and the Possibility Wars
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Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:02:44 GMT

[jim k's (the other jim) post on dieties deleted]

sucks being a god dont it?
omnicience + omnipotence = impotence
(if you can do anything, you do nothing, or are always doing something)

as far as the less-than-perfect gods (thor, dunad, lanala, etc)
yes, should the populace actually be able to invoke them,
then there is no reason they couldnt squash the HLs
so why dont they?

1) the populace has yet to invoke them (cant/wont/hasnt occured to them)
2) the "god" doesnt care/different adgenda
3) the "god" is actually incapable of doing so

the simplest excuse is that gods require faith,
and proof destroys true faith, so they dont do much

but this fails in the light of Aysle, with gods at war,
and the LL, where everyone might as well be god anyway
so we have Aysle - war among gods causes to many problems,
both sides decide to restrict themselves to mortal tools, 
and the LL - Lanala dont play that (peace, love, granola)

of course, this is an INFINI-verse,
so somewhere out there, there are some squashed HLs...

dave "who can know the mind of god(s)?" oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: wolf@cheshire.oxy.edu (Clinton Richard Wolf)
Subject: Re: pure zones
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Distribution: alt
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:20:31 GMT

In article <BPOSTOW.92Sep12123514@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> bpostow@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow) writes:
>what is the deal with pure zones? no, this is not a standard question.
>what I meen is, are there any CE pure zones? actually I would tend to
>believe that any area of CE that doesn't have any stellae around it
>would be automatically pure, what is there to make it unpure?? if not,
>what kind of zone is your standard CE zone. or, equally interesting
>is, what kind of zone are the actual cosms? like marketplace, terra,
>gaia, etc?
>
>--
 Well, they give you guidelines, based on the amount of possibility energy in-
herent in a cosm. The more energy, the more there are Dominant Zones instead
of Pure zones in the cosm (because Dominant zones are more flexible, don't
break as easily as Pure Zones, taste great, are less filling, etc.)
 So most of CE is Dominant, except, IMHO, Hardpoints, which attained a Pure
rating in response to the attack from another reality. I can't really think of
any CE sites which would be naturally Pure, since their energy would derive
from legends and artifacts (making hardpoints, by definition), and CE has so
many different regional customs, styles, and languages that it's ridiculous
to say one CE area is 'more CE' than another...

<shrug>

-- Clint
 


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten)
Subject: ramblings (delete now)
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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 03:13:00 GMT

Just watching an old, old movie, and considering what  
happens if WEG had put orrosh in the US instead of the LL.

Would the invasion have been seen first in New York City,  
as a cloud gathered over the roof of a tall apartment building  
as half the city watched, as the police department walls were  
bleeding? Would 4 brave, heroic defenders of earth climb up  
and battle, and be defeated?

Maybe not, but just a little tweak to the ending of  
Ghostbusters, and you've got a really nasty cosm invasion.

		Michael
--
		Michael Gersten		michael@stb.info.com
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Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: New rules cludge
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Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:54:01 GMT



On 9 Sep 1992, Michael Yacht wrote:

> Ok, yet another rules cludge from the mikester here.  Lately I have been 
> fuystrated with the combat system.  I find it silly that:
> 
> "I'm harder to hit, I have a dodge of 22, but when I get hit, WHAMMO!"

This is my recollection of K.J.'s house rule on the matter, which I liked
very much.  Use the Power Push of the difference between base attack and
defense scores as a modifier to effect value.

For example:  Attacker A has fire combat base 14, and Ninja B has dodge
22.  22-14 = 8, which is 3 on the Push table, so -3 to damage. 
Contrariwise, the Ninja with M.Arts of 20 attacking guy A with melee of 9
has an advantage of 22-9 9 13, or +5 to damage.

Jim, correct me, please, if I have misremembered.

Colin

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
==  Colin J. Wynne                       cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu  ==
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|  Heaven:   A place where the French are the cooks, the German are  |
|             the engineers, and the British are the policemen.      |
|                                                                    |
|  Hell:     A place where the British are the cooks, the French are |
|             the engineers, and the German are the policemen.       |
----------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re:  My summer vacation
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Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:05:34 GMT

Chris writes:

> Okay, so it is not my summer vacation, but my Labor Day Weekend vacation.
> 
> But first:
> 
>   National Radio Astronomy Observatory - 52 mi W on US 60, then S on
>       NM 78. The VLA (Very Large Array) radio telescope consists of
>       27 separate antennas situated along three arms of railroad track.
>       Self-guided walking tour of grounds and visitor center. (Daily)
>       Phone 835-7000. Free.
> 
> Yes, you guessed it. Clay, Bart, and I came within spitting distance (well,
> it would be spitting distance if you could spit 150 miles) of Kansas Jim in 

Actually, the VLA is only about 50 miles away, and since I do work for
NRAO I could have probably gotten you inside and shown you around.  

> Socorro, New Mexico! And though we entertained thoughts of appearing 
> unannounced on his doorstep ("Hi Jim! We've brought our Torg characters. What
> adventure are you going to run?"), we exercised a supreme amount of 
> self-control and refrained from these illicit desires.

Well, if it was on Saturday you should have come by, because I had an
old friend come into town and he wanted to game but we couldn't find
enough people to really get anything going....

> We discovered the following things about New Mexico:
> 
>     1) Everyone in New Mexico owns a trailer home. The trip put me in mind
>        of Jeff Foxworthy's observation that "If your richest relative
>        buys a new home and asks you to help take the wheels off, you *might*
>        be a redneck."

No, just the rich people in New Mexico.

>     2) New Mexican cuisine is a myth created by the residents to lure tourists
>        to their doom. In our trip across southern New Mexico, we saw not
>        one blue corn chicken enchilada in green chile sauce, not one helping
>        of posole, not one tamale in chipotle sauce. We did, however, drive
>        through the annual Hillsboro Apple Festival (doors locked, of course.
>        Small town America is quite frightening) and saw about 15 Dairy
>        Queens.

Well, unless you're in Santa Fe you have to really look off the beaten
path for places that serve food like that.  But Dairy Queens and other
fast food joints are everywhere (heck, if you go down the main drag in
Socorro you'd think there was nothing but fast food places to eat at.)

But if you ever decide to come through again, be sure and let someone
know!

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
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From: jas@EDU.ISI (Jeff Sullivan)
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Subject: Re: New rules cludge
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:32:09 GMT
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In article <1992Sep9.213739.8981@sei.cmu.edu> mly@sei.cmu.edu (Michael Yacht) writes:

>Ok, yet another rules cludge from the mikester here.  Lately I have been 
..
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: Illusions outside Aysle
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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 23:34:31 GMT

Clinton wonders:

>  Did people decide to make Caspar Babbidge an ord or a PR (he would seem to
> be an ord, from the description they give of his background, which suggests
> a spontaneous transformation...)
>  Now here's the million dollar question. A normal spell doesn't cause a long-
> range contradiction. But a ward/trigger spell (as is the 'message' he leaves
> in the sunken Cambodian temple) DOES. Now, how is this ord throwing a long
> range contradiction around everywhere? Should I just ignore it as the obvious
> plot device it is, or does someone have a spare kludge they can lend me to
> explain to my players? :)

Well, the ward gets real tricky since the Temple of Kra could be
within the mixed Orrorsh/Core Earth zone - the magic axiom there would
support the spell so it wouldn't necessarily be a contradiction; but
what about all the Core Earth reality between Aysle and Orrorsh?  Does
it have any effect on the contradiction level of the spell?

I figured that Casper was Possibility-rated simply because he was able
to travel from Aysle to Kra then back to Aysle with apparently no
problems.  


Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re: New rules cludge
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[note that i could care less about what kludge to use if any.
 having done simple combat simulations, i understand that being
 harder but less often is a neccessary evil to balance being hit
 always, but taking little damage.  i call it "elephant vs. squirrel"]
[of course, this still fails in TORG, because the squirrel still needs
 to roll a rediculously high bonus to damage the elephant - that is why 
 i like KS J's kludge for extreme skill discrepancies, but not damage]

Burton begs for it:
 ! burn me on that, sperate rolls are used for Spells, why not tech.  The 

so, why separate rolls for magic and not tech?

1) (the most obvious, and most weaselly) - magic is magic, tech is tech!
   why should two totally different sources do the same thing

2) (a better reason) - magic has two rolls, because one is for the creation
   of the effect, the other is to hit (and maybe damage, based on spell)
   the tech analogue is "one roll to create the gun/bullet/whatever,
   and one roll to use it" - perfectlly reasonable

3) (anal gamer reason) - because that what WEG says
   (actually, i feel that ANY roll in TORG should be stat+skill+bonus,
    and for any one action, including multis, only one bonus number is used -
    those spells and miracles that ask for two rolls at one time are bogus,
    and should be modified to fit the TORG "one action=one roll=one bonus

(of course, rule 2 takes precedence over rule 3)

dave "such a simple aside, such a horrendous flame..." oakes
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re:  Gods (he says, as he steps into the fray)
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:50:14 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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Chris Pearce(cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu) dares:
 ! I've been loosely following the gods thread. Here's my theology.

come on in and join the crowd - heresy is never full

 ! The gods do not exist, at least not as physical entities. Rather, gods are
 ! the embodiment of a spiritual community's belief in a concept.

[miracles as "possibility pools" for the faithful deleted]

[gods limited to having done what faithful belive deleted]

 ! So what if a community believes their god constantly intervenes in human
 ! affairs, vigorously and on a physical level. Such a belief might imply that
 ! avatars of the god (or the god itself) might then intervene DIRECTLY by
 ! stomping high lords. However, my hypothesis requires either a consensus
 ! among the spiritual community or an action by a spiritual authority, and
 ! the belief held must be specific and concrete.

i aint so sure that the community need be as specific as date and time,
but certainly we need more than a simple majority to say "stomp him"

 ! To sum up, gods only intervene when the spiritual community believes in
 ! a specific act by the god or when one powerful spiritual authority directly
 ! invokes the god.

realise that if the general populace truely believes that their god will 
come and save them (and the spirit axiom is enough) then it will.
its just that to make it an interesting RPG, the gods we have dont.
(another reason that the creation of a torg = invocation of the NO
 and this aperios' avatar business is truly bogus...)

dave "why do you think they call it 'deus ex machina'?" oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: How to screw a cosm
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Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 20:09:10 GMT



On Fri, 11 Sep 1992, Stephen Smoogen wrote:

> Does anyone have any other interesting fun you can have with specific
> realms? I think putting cyberware on an Akashan would probably be as
> fun :)

Topical anasthetics sprayed from a cropduster over L.A., and morphine into
the water supply  |)

Colin

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
==  Colin J. Wynne                       cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu  ==
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|  Heaven:   A place where the French are the cooks, the German are  |
|             the engineers, and the British are the policemen.      |
|                                                                    |
|  Hell:     A place where the British are the cooks, the French are |
|             the engineers, and the German are the policemen.       |
----------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten)
Subject: Illusions outside Aysle
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 02:54:00 GMT

Begin forwarded message:
> In article <gatemail1.0b2462334115383@morticia> michael@stb.info.com 

> (Michael Gersten) writes:
> 

>> Outside of Aylse, an illusion of a bridge will hold no weight. An  

>> illusiary fileball will still do damage (you saw it, you belive it) --  

                                            -------------------------
  Sounds a lot like err, AD&D. Does this mean we should also make 

a saving through to determine if you believe that the fireball is
real?
  Also, the "you saw it, you belive it" doesn't make much sence outside of
Alyse. For example, in Core Earch people don't expect someone to be 

able to lob a fireball, so why would they believe it? I don't think
they would. 


Ja,
Geoffrey
----
Ok, so I had D&D on my mind when I posted that. But consider this:

You, a CE person knows about fire, and what it is, and what it looks like. You've  
seen flame throwers, you know about portable gas thingies. (At my last residence  
I was three houses away from a backyard portable bar-b-que (natural gas) that  
went "blammo", and took the house with it -- it basically let loose a ball of fire). 


Now, consider that you see a huge flame coming at you. Might be a flame  
thrower. Might be a gas thrower. Heck, could be lots of things. You're engulfed  
before you can do anything about it.

Saving throws? Naah. Saving throws are the D&D "to hit" mechanism for area  
affect spells. Torg has explicit "to hit" mechanisms.

		Michael
--
		Michael Gersten		michael@stb.info.com
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Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: cpearce%nemesis@nemesis.acs.unt.edu (Chris Pearce)
Subject: My summer vacation
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Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:31:32 GMT

Okay, so it is not my summer vacation, but my Labor Day Weekend vacation.

But first:

  National Radio Astronomy Observatory - 52 mi W on US 60, then S on
      NM 78. The VLA (Very Large Array) radio telescope consists of
      27 separate antennas situated along three arms of railroad track.
      Self-guided walking tour of grounds and visitor center. (Daily)
      Phone 835-7000. Free.

Yes, you guessed it. Clay, Bart, and I came within spitting distance (well,
it would be spitting distance if you could spit 150 miles) of Kansas Jim in 
Socorro, New Mexico! And though we entertained thoughts of appearing 
unannounced on his doorstep ("Hi Jim! We've brought our Torg characters. What 
adventure are you going to run?"), we exercised a supreme amount of 
self-control and refrained from these illicit desires.

Besides, having two GMs in the same room together breeds disaster. Before
you know it, one of them sprays the furniture, the other one raises his
hackles, and then the fur starts flying!

Actually, we took a road trip to Carlsbad Caverns. And then, on a lark (and
because we had played a Call of Cthulhu adventure set there), we journeyed to
the Gila Cliff Dwellings National Monument. We camped in the Gila National
Forest (along with hundreds of Harley-Davidson Bikers, who decided to hold
their annual convention there).

It was an 1800 mile road trip.

We discovered the following things about New Mexico:

    1) Everyone in New Mexico owns a trailer home. The trip put me in mind
       of Jeff Foxworthy's observation that "If your richest relative
       buys a new home and asks you to help take the wheels off, you *might*
       be a redneck."

    2) New Mexican cuisine is a myth created by the residents to lure tourists
       to their doom. In our trip across southern New Mexico, we saw not
       one blue corn chicken enchilada in green chile sauce, not one helping
       of posole, not one tamale in chipotle sauce. We did, however, drive
       through the annual Hillsboro Apple Festival (doors locked, of course.
       Small town America is quite frightening) and saw about 15 Dairy
       Queens.

That was my Labor Day vacation.
-- 
Chris Pearce -- cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu