HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Date: 19 Dec 1992 10:42:22 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Akash Deshpande writes:
>>	I do not understand what you mean when you say "demonstrating" is'nt
>>	proving.
>
>You use the supposed fact that light exists to prove that light exists.

	No. Nothing of the sorts. I just ask you to hold the lens. If there's
	light, you'll yell out pretty soon :) 

>
>I believe you suggest that light causes shocks and fire, whereby
>we supposedly conclude that light exists. So unless
>you rule out any other cause of shock and fire there is some proof
>left. 

	Yes, that's right. So then you start listing out the possible agents
	and try to find those which will get focussed by a convex lens,
	excite a photocell and fit any other expt. you can devise. 
	Congratulations. you've just discovered the first principle of
	scientific experimentation.

>
>>	                                            A particle does not
>>	"possess" any physical properties in any objective sense till a
>>	measurement is made on it.
>
>Ah, but what does your religion say about the existence of a particle
>if no measurement is made on it? Does a particle exist if there is
>no observer? 

	Either you're totally dumb or you're playing the fool. The above
	statement clearly tells you about that. And I've given you references
	which you can look up and illuminate yourself. I have no intention
	of going into Bell's theorem again.

>Bye bye.
	
	good riddance :) Thanks.

	FFT




Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Narrow Hindu Beliefs: Tipu Sultan & proof
Date: 15 Dec 1992 13:59:56 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Krithi writes:
>From: fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
>NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
>
>|> Tipu Sultan, Rocket Science. 
>> duh?? pliss to give specific reference???
>
>Though the tone of your enquiry suggests cynicism and an already made
>up "mind-set". Here's the proof ..... 

	no, not an "already mindset". But Worma kinds who throw around
	claims make you cowsious...

>Also: 
>There is a temple town in TN : TiruVannamalai. The reigning diety of 
>the  famous  TiruVannamalai kovil/temple, is  ArunaChaleeswarar. The 
>very name as Aruna + Achchala symbolizes  matter-energy equivalence. 
>[Soure: Tattva-Darsana]. It is a  great achievement to have realized 
>this fundamental relation. 
>
>Krithi. 

	Can't buy this. You see, you tend to take only those speculations
	which happen to hit the target and conveniently neglect the
	ignorant garble like the eclipse-Rahu-ketu thing. secondly,
	such an interpretation can be justified only if it can be reasonably
	inferred that they had atleast some idea about what energy is 	
	and what matter is. By that, I mean they should atleast mention
	somewhere about the rudiments of Special Relativity.(And don't give
	me verses which say the world is Maya and everything is
	relative. That's Galilean relativity :) Thirdly, there is no 
	quantitative relationship which is a definite cause of cynicism.

	FFT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: goyle@tortie.me.uiuc.edu (Vipin Goyle)
Subject: Re: Rao on way out? Elections?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:13:25 GMT

akash@sol.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande) writes:


>I doubt that these are Rao's own actions. Seems like he has lost
>the internal power game. Now the basic political dynamics relate
>to timing of elections in BJP states and the centre. I suspect that
>they will call elections in only one state at first (HP?) to test the
>waters in a media-controlled manner. If BJP shows strength we enter a
>murkier phase---a likely scenario (unless BJP boycotts, which I think
>they wont) since the basic power balance has shifted little.
>A possible, all-too-congress scenario is that
>patsy congress governments will be set up by arresting BJP candidates
>as RSS members, internal power struggle will be sorted out (ie, Rao
>goes), some "achievement" will be drummed up, say a phony 300% rise
>in foreign investment, elections will be called mid-term, Rao will
>graciously retire from his "onerous task" to make way for young
>leaders, accolades such as JN award, IG award, RG award and other
>misc. junk will be heaped on Rao for his service
>to the nation, ...

A sound analysis of a pessimistic scenario, and unfortunately, the
more probable one.

>If Rao has not lost his fire, he will stick out
>the full term at centre, conduct fair elections in BJP states and
>press with his economic package, if only to assuage Manmohan Singh's
>plaintive refrain.

Let's all hope and pray, huh? How 'bout each of us writing a letter,
preferably non-partisan, requesting that he do just that? Won't bother
with a script, since form letters have a way of getting ignored.
Can also include some latent threats like concerns (fictitious or
real) expressed to us by some high-tech executives who might decide not
to invest in India. That's what I am going to do. Any takers?

>In any case, I think that the next parliament will again be hung.
>It remains to be seen what the BJP conjures up next to rally support.

The Congress just gave it to them. They are the Party of the People,
(apt that that's their party's name) wronged by those terrible 
pseudo-secularists.

>-Akash

-srinivas sunder
sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu

(from a friend's account)
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
 Vipin Goyle			Engg. Psych. Research Lab.     
 305 N.Lincoln Ave, #S205	Dept. of Mech. & Indust. Engg. 
 Urbana, IL 61801		U of Illinois at U-C	       
 (217)367-1219			(217)333-5140 or (217)244-8300 
 v-goyle@uiuc.edu		MC - 244		       
---------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: abdutta@icaen.uiowa.edu (Abhijit Dutta)
Subject: Re: 3 BJP ruled state govts. dismissed
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:23:51 GMT
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

|Deepak Srivastava <DXS23@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
|
|+ Dismissing other three state governments may not turn out
|+to be a mistake after all. Read an article I just posted. As
|+you also note below this may  be an opportunity to corner
|+hard liners with in BJP/RSS etc. It can be achieved a) by
|+putting more pressure on them to translate their public
|+support into vote or b) lead, follow or get out of the way :->.
|
|What if we end up with the Shiv Sena leading, the BJP following, and
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|the Congress(I) getting out of the way :-> ?
---------------------------------------------

    Deepak Srivastava's worst nightmare!! ;-)

|--
|Raphael Malyankar        malyanka@enuxha.eas.asu.edu

    -jit

disclaimer: opinions are mine only.


-- 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh)
Subject: Why B M A C (B M M C C) is not banned?
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 08:50:21 GMT



The VHP, RSS, BD, JIH and ISS have been banned after Dec.6 but
why BMAC (or now BMMCC) has not been banned?

It is the organization which gave call to boycott 
26th Jan 1986(?). 

How far it is considered to be a nationalistic/secular organization?

Bye
Adil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: pjoseph@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Paul Joseph)
Subject: Re: Fake Degrees From TamilNadu
Organization: SDSU Computing Services
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:40:30 GMT

In article <BzBC8q.ByL@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>The latest issue of India Today has a very interesting article
>on how Ph.Ds, D.Litts, etc., are being bought for anywhere
>between 5000 to 15000 rupees. All these degrees seem to be from
>US universities. Apparently in TamilNadu having a Dur before
>your name is prestigious for politicians, musicians, industrialists, etc.
>They have a thriving industry for generating these fake degrees,
>with scholarly thesis, and all that.
>You can buy MS and MBA degrees too. All this apparently is happening
>with businesses set up with political connections. 
>
>Next time you hire an RA/TA/postdoc or admit a student to a graduate program
>from TamilNadu, take care to see whether the degrees are for real or
>fake.
>
>Just to inform our inquiring sci readers!
>...kt

Please be careful while spreading such stories - there is enough bad 
reputation about Indians here ( in USA ) -- It might be true and sure
you have every right to say whatever you want but be sure of the
consequences. It undermines the achievement of people who have not been
cheating - and all just because you want a little attention - grow up
think before you just post off things like an excited little kid.

Paul
From: verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma)
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: 18 DEC 92 17:16:09    


In article <1gtcvvINN5s0@phakt.usc.edu>, fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes...
>Worma writes:
>>	There is no such thing as reality according to science. 
>                                 ^^^^^^^^^

	stuff delete.

	Why can't you learn to disagree? There is nothing wrong with
	disagreeing. Why do you have so much euphoria about what you 
	know or what you believe in? Just because science could not live
	certain religions, doesn't mean that religion or philosophy,
	in general, is hocus-pocus.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:
I express my views under the freedom of speech guaranteed by the constitution
of the United States of America. My employer is not responsible for any
damage or damages caused as a result of my writings. I use my employer's
facilities for a cost of putting extra two hours per week.

WORMA, the WORMS charmer and WORM Abater.

-- Virendra Verma
------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:41199 soc.culture.pakistan:18372
From: fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: India sending army units to Somailia
Date: 17 Dec 1992 14:10:34 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

worma blurbs:
>>India and Germany decided to send in army unit to Somalia to help in 
>>operation RESTORE-HOPE.
>>--Javed.
>
>	That is the only good news about India since the period of Ashoka.

	ok, mate, it's time you told us how old you really are. 11? 12?


>	BJP led revolution, at last, is showing some effect on the spineless
>	GoI to act beyond secularism.

	3 events:  Great Ashok, Operation Hope, and BJP "revolution". Quite
	a connection, I say. 

	FFT
From: patel@key.amdahl.com (Chandresh Patel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Fake Degrees From TamilNadu
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:13:24 GMT
Reply-To: patel@key.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Advanced System Division

-In article 10532@tandem.com, rajesh@Tandem.com (Rajesh Srivastava) writes:
-> In article <3928@key.COM>, patel@key.amdahl.com (Chandresh Patel) writes:
-> |> I am surprised that there is so much concern over false documents.
-> |> When I interview somebody for job, I look at the person's capability to -understand
-> |> the work at hand and the depth of knowlege on various tasks accomplished
-> |> and/or courses taken. 
-> |> 
-> |> If the person shows capability to do the job, I care a fig for the stupid
-> |> paper. It would be hard to believe that a person can land a job just with a -degree
-> |> (legitimate :) ) in hand.
-> |> 
-> |> Similarly a university should have open entrance exam, any body who passes should
-> |> be eligible for entrance.
-> |> 
-> |> Enjoy.
-> |> 
-> |> Chandresh Patel	

-> I agree with you but that person also clears through a pre-interview resume
-> screening while he/she may clear based on fake high grades, degrees etc. This 
-> is unfair especially when a qualified person whith a little less true academic
-> achievements is denied an interview chance.
-> 
-> -Rajesh

This would be true only for candidates who are just students applicants
without industry experience.  How many HR work solely based on paper
credentials without checking their authencity? I don't know.
But I don't presume many.

Now, if the FAKE candidate did well in the interview and landed the job on
merit,  the job was not worth (in the eyes of TRUE candidates as the other
guy is not a qualified person so the job capability is for non-qualified person)
and the TRUE candidate should continue to look for a qualified job. (Whatever
that means. :)

In a capitalist system, most of the time the right candidate gets the job.
Its the perceived match and not a piece of credential that will usually count. And
finally, if not this job then another. And if all fails, the indian industry
is still in dire need of QUALIFIED candidates. An unqualified person from India 
may land a job here and a qualified person will definately land a job there. 
A fair exchange?


Chandresh Patel	
patel@key.amdahl.com
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:41317 soc.culture.indian.telugu:1449 soc.culture.indian.american:2296 soc.culture.usa:9290
From: rajesh_h1@verifone.com (Rajesh P. Halarnkar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Need info on Indian associations.
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:12:11 -1000
Organization: Verifone Inc, Auburn, CA  (916)889-4997

I need the postal address, telephone numbers and some contact persons name 
of Indian associations in USA. Please send this info to me by email as I am 
2 weeks behind in reading this list. My address is
rajesh_h1@verifone.com
This information is required by a freind of mine who wants to explore 
business opportunities in the US.

Thanks in advance

Rajesh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: akash@crescent.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande)
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Reply-To: akash@crescent.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande)
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 21:42:29 GMT

In article <1gvqeeINNfog@aludra.usc.edu>, fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay
Fafat) writes:
|> Akash Deshpande writes:
|> >>	I do not understand what you mean when you say "demonstrating" is'nt
|> >>	proving.
|> >
|> >You use the supposed fact that light exists to prove that light exists.
|> 
|> 	No. Nothing of the sorts. I just ask you to hold the lens. If there's
                                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^
|> 	light, you'll yell out pretty soon :) 
        ^^^^^

I need say no more, and you still have to show that there is no other cause
of fire.

|> >                                             A particle does not
|> >>	"possess" any physical properties in any objective sense till a
|> >>	measurement is made on it.
|> >
|> >Ah, but what does your religion say about the existence of a particle
|> >if no measurement is made on it? Does a particle exist if there is
|> >no observer? 
|> 
|> 	Either you're totally dumb or you're playing the fool. The above
|> 	statement clearly tells you about that.

Ok I am a dumb fool. Does the above statement clearly say yes or no.
And while you are at it, explain your following gem in the light of
your opinion about Nature Herself, such as her capital self may be.

>       No. The uncertainty principle has nothing to do with the measurement
>       process. The uncertainty is "built into the nature". As Heisenberg
>       himself had said, "  'I am uncertain' does not mean 'I can be
>       certain'. ". The uncertainty is the "fault" with Nature Herself.
>

The crucial question is in fact: does a particle exist without the observer.
Possible answers:

Teleological: why ask?
Utilitarian: who cares?
Belief (Religion): yes, no.
Science: can't say
Rationality: rational thoughts cannot be formulated on this matter.

The above can be said more poetically (if you can appreciate it at all)
"speech returns baffled, mind returns without attaining," and if you
have a leap of intuition, "such is the bliss of the eternal."

-Akash
From: jeet@point.cs.uwm.edu (Jitendra Kavathekar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: reco's on good books requested
Date: 15 Dec 1992 03:04:10 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.5
Summary: Looking for good books on Hinduism and Jainism

Hello All,

   I would like input from people on the net regarding pointers to "good"
books on Hinduism and Jainism (*particularly* Jainism).  I live far away from 
a temple and there is not a big Indian community around here (the Org. line
is in the header is mis-leading), so it is hard to do this on my own.
Surely I will get flamed for being vague but none the less, I'll leave the
definition of "good" open to your interpretation.  The only
thing I specifically want is that the book be written in English.
Please give me a *very* brief synopsis of why you think the book(s) that
you recommend to be of merit, along with whatever information I need to
track it down (title, author, ISBN #, etc..).  

  I want to add some good books on the topic in my library.  I grew up
on family discussions, teachings, and stories being told on Jainism and 
Hinduism along with my favorite Amer Chitra (?sp) comic books :-).  The recent
events of India have gotten me thinking in this direction once again.
(even though I know the issue *may* be more political than anything else).

  Respond either on the net or via email.  I'll post a summary if
requested to do so.



Thank you for your time.

Jitendra (jeet@point.cs.uwm.edu)
From: dnl@dnlsun.Corp.Sun.COM (Dinesh Lokhande)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: info on H4 visa document
Date: 16 Dec 1992 18:08:46 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: dnlsun.corp.sun.com

I am posting this message for a friend who recently got H1B status
approval. His wife needs to apply for H4 spouse visa in India.

What documents she should carry with her to usa consulate?
Shas has been refused B2 spouse visa five months back. She
wanted to accompany her husband on business trip. The husband,
my friend was doing the business in India and he also had five
year nultiple B1/B2 visa issued at Canada. 

The wife was refused on the reasons - 

	the officer did not agree that the husbad was doing business
	in India.

	The husband had MS degree from Canada and the officer thought
	that he can easily get a job in USA and th husband and wife 
        will stay in USA.
	

	With thie background, would anyone pls suggest any additional
	documents, pls reply at rajiva@Sun.COM and dinesh.lokhande@Corp.sun.COM.

	What are the changes of getting H4 visa?
From: akumar@pollux.usc.edu (Anant Kumar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: looking for spic-macay
Date: 11 Dec 1992 23:47:53 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

rvenkat@vax1.umkc.edu writes:

>me a lead to  SPIC-MACAY . I did notice something on the net coupla weeks

	write spic-macay.core@marc.com

	anant
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Devjani Mishra)
Subject: Re: Sati's history
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Organization: Yale University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:35:17 GMT

A couple of clarifications, which I believe are necessary:

"Suttee" = widow-burning, term supplied by the Raj.

"Sati" = literally, a true and pure woman/wife, from the former incarnation
of Parvati.  Sati immolated herself through the force of her prayers
because her father would not permit her to become the wife of Lord Shiva.

I think "suttee" originated because someone decided a live widow could not
be "sati" to her dead husband.

"Jauhar" = practice of the women of the palace burning themselves en masse
lest a conquering army dishonor them.  In some palaces in Rajasthan you can
still see the handprints of red alta on the walls that women made before
they jumped into the flames.  

In any case at least some postings seem to be mingling "suttee" with
"jauhar" and calling the mix "sati".

       /-                 Devjani Mishra      misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
      /   /               New Haven, CT          diva@minerva.cs.yale.edu
  ___/  _  _   _  ___           
 /  /   /   | /  /  /     "We don't see things as they are.
/__/_  /_   |/  /__/_     We see them as we are."
                                                               -Anais Nin
                           
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: sudha@eng.umd.edu (Sudha Balakrishnan)
Subject: Apartment available
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 16:10:18 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: md

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Apartment available
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: md
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park
Keywords: 

Looking for a female Indian roomate to share
the Master bedroom at,

Springhill Lake Apartments, Greenbelt, MD.

Rent: $180.00 (incl. util.)

Avail.: January 1st, 1993.
(Need not sign any lease!)

If interested, please contact:
Sudha/ Gayatri /Zen : (301) 345 3821

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.african,soc.culture.canada
From: narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
Subject: Fake Degrees From TamilNadu
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:19:37 GMT

The latest issue of India Today has a very interesting article
on how Ph.Ds, D.Litts, etc., are being bought for anywhere
between 5000 to 15000 rupees. All these degrees seem to be from
US universities. Apparently in TamilNadu having a Dur before
your name is prestigious for politicians, musicians, industrialists, etc.
They have a thriving industry for generating these fake degrees,
with scholarly thesis, and all that.
You can buy MS and MBA degrees too. All this apparently is happening
with businesses set up with political connections. 

Next time you hire an RA/TA/postdoc or admit a student to a graduate program
from TamilNadu, take care to see whether the degrees are for real or
fake.

Just to inform our inquiring sci readers!
...kt
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Narrow Hindu Beliefs- was- Ram (Was h
Date: 17 Dec 1992 14:07:01 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

Sameer Bhatia writes:
>Isn't it high time we `desis' stopped talking such utter rubbish based
>upon the fact that we had such great scientists earlier?  So what?!!!
>have the "sound basis" you imply the desi guys had.... namely Flying
                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Chariots and Nukes...
^^^^^^^^^
>Sameer 
>

	No no no NO. Can't you see you've got it wrong? They had chariots 
	driven by horses . Chariots did'nt fly, though
	they carried peepuls who could launch nukes with the twang of a bow.
	It was the Vimanas which flew. I recall only Indrajeet using it for war
	Ram used it for a pleasure trip back home (Come to think of it,
	Hanuman must have discovered anti-gravity (??) )

	FFT

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian