HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:55:19 CST
From:         C444307@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      turkeys

I guess one of my biggest dissapointments was in
_Hook_.  It would seem difficult to make Robin
Williams appear uncolorful and uninspired, but
Speilberg did it.

BTW, my wife loved the movie.

What did others think?

Joe Daus
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:31:30 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Cook, Thief, Various Acquaintances & Chaplin

Alex,

You put out a pretty mean lot of verbiage size-wise, yourself. (That's meant
nicely, too.).  Actually, the reason I could do this last Friday was because
we had that snowstorm that Anita mentioned earlier that day.  Like the fool
I am, I came in to work from way out of town despite classes being cancelled,
and ended up stranded with my boss' rear-wheel-drive pickup.  So he put me
up for the night; and since I was due some time off for helping keep the
library services open to students, I took the time to write a little more
than usual instead of disappear for the day. I only put the brakes on this
sort of loggorhea (sp?) when I know something's for publication, in which case
I start sweating through draft after draft....

To exhaust my comments on CTWL for the present, you might be interested in
an interview that was conducted with Greenaway and appeared a couple of issues
ago (I think the one before the present one) in Film Quarterly.  I read it but
can't remember a blessed relevant thing from it; hope you have access to the
publication.  I'm looking forward to seeing Prospero's Books and will probably
re-read it then.

It's interesting to read where you're coming from on Chaplin, L&H, and Keaton
especially in that your intro to Chaplin differed so much.  What I really tried
to imply in my comments is an observation I can make now, since, as usual, I
thought of it after the fact of my posting: I feel guilty about my response to
Chaplin overall--i.e., avoiding him at present and claiming that to be based
on a critical judgment--because I distrust the impurity of my motives/percep-
tions.  So I mean to give him another shot. L&H were always underdogs, so I
had no trouble building my childhood affection into a cause celebre over time.
And Keaton is obviously cinematically inventive in a way Chaplin is not often.
Coupled to that, there's his deadpan confrontation of event and fate--his
Weltaanschaung (sp?) if you will--that hits home with my stoic and perverse
soul.

Jeff C.
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:42:32 -0500
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Murphy

Eddie Murphy is an utter mystery to me, pb.  Doesn't he have *any* friends
to call him on his bullshit?  Doesn't he have enough money yet?  Can he really
be so crass as to justify what he does (filmically, at least) on the basis of
the bottom line alone?  Does he *really* think he's funny in these abysmal
"films" (more like always already videos, I'd say)????  These questions
might haunt me, were the whole business ultimately such a waste of time.  Tis
a shame, though . . . the man is so obviously capable of doing *so* damn
much better!

michael mcdonald
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:50:00 EST
From:         AMBLY@CLUST1.CLEMSON.EDU
Subject:      Re: Listserv info

Heather:

To reach the list, use the address: cinema-l@american.edu

Hope this helps!

Adrian
Clemson
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Date:         Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:53:00 PST
From:         THOMPSON@UCRVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Big Sleep

Would whoever wanted my extra copy of The Big Sleep -- I think it
was Rick Fisher -- please get in touch; I found it again.
Jim Thompson
Thompson@ucrac1.ucr.edu
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:18:56 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: T&L, & feminist endings

j-man & kjf,

As a *general* idea, I'd have to agree not to agree with (Camus' or any
one else's) notion that suicide is the ultimate act of freedom.  Then
you end up with the Death of a Salesman reductio ad absurdem(sp?) appli-
cation of this.  You wiggle out and can provisionally accept this ob-
servation only through considering the context.  Depends on the the
character's situation, the quality of his/her awareness of it, even the
quality (attitude, frame of reference) of our awareness of it (conditioned
and complicated by the filmmaker or other artist has portrayed and is
"nudging" us).  So Salesman and T&L can be two completely different cases.
You can view T&L--as I sort of do--as a case of these women performing an act
that is almost a fait accompli given their own natures and the nature of their
world, and yet actually making of this almost inevitability a real choice by
the personal frame of reference with which they embrace it.  --If this seems
conundrum and willful obfuscation, so be it.

JC
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:03:19 -0500
From:         Ens Alexander W Ellermann <ellerman@NORFOLK.NADN.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Holy Loch revisited

Did a little checking & discovered that Holy Loch is scheduled
to shut down but is still operational & should be for a little
while yet.

  Absolutely positively leaving my desk & going to go get healthy now -ly,
                                                                        Alex
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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:26:01 CST
From:         Rick Francis <C47805NF@WUVMD.WUSTL.EDU>
Subject:      Laserdisc player--Panasonic?

I suspect I missed out on some discussion of laserdisc players.  I
would like to either get one or convince the school to purchase one,
but the only one I see advertised in the bargain places is a Panasonic
for about $350.  Sorry, don't have model number.  Question:  are there
compelling reasons *not* to buy the cheapest one to start up?  Are there
models in the $400-$500 range that are worth going out of the way for?
Anyone familiar with bottom of the line Panasonics?

Thanks.

____________________________________________________________________________
Rick Francis        | "'Originality' is the sickness of a modernity that
C47805NF@WUVMD      |  wishes to see itself as something new, always new,
Dep't of Comp. Lit. |  in order continually to witness its own birth.
Box 1107            |  In so doing, modernity is that fashionable illusion
Washington Univ.    |  which only speaks to death."
St. Louis, MO       |
63130               |       --Carlos Fuentes
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:40:19 -0600
From:         CDOMS@UMKCVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Dark films...literally

Comments about films being too dark to see very well.  Maybe due to
poor "arc" lightling from the projection booth, rather than the film.

Some, theaters are known for their "cheap" arc lights, should be avoided

Carol Doms
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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 11:23:00 CST
From:         Rolando Recometa <$W$LB4P@LUCCPUA.BITNET>
Subject:      More info on Crying Game

Crying Game was directed by Neil Jordan who gave us Mona Lisa,
Company of Wolves, High Spirits, We're No Angels, and last year's
The Miracle.
                                    Rolando
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:46:50 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: L & H Trivia

William,

"There's going to be a fight!"  I can *almost* picture that line and film
in my mind... but not quite.  Has to do with an impending fisticuff that
Stan must've had something to do with getting Ollie into, right?  JC
From: slingo@CASBAH.ACNS.NWU.EDU (Carol Slingo)
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Subject: Mimi in Italy/recommendation
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:37:36 GMT
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

I don't know if I thanked the people who posted the Mimi Rogers
filmography, but I will do so now.

One of the movies was called TO FORGET PALERMO.  This is Francisco Rosi's
DIMENTICARE PALERMO/THE PALERMO CONNECTION, which was marketed in the US as
a Mafia-drug movie with Mimi Rogers, Jim Belushi, Vittorio Gassman.  I saw
it last night and found it quite interesting for positive and negative
reasons.  I always regarded Rosi as one of the great post-war European
directors.  SALVATORE GIULIANO, THE MATTEI AFFAIR, CHRIST STOPPED AT EBOLI
all that political stuff very analytical and careful, like a melodrama
version of the MacNeill Lehrer Report.  PALERMO isn't much different but it
comes from the new Europe, take two International Faces (never mind that
Belushi can't suggest the anguish of the character for a minute, he's still
pleasant), some aging stars for support, nice scenery, a well-known novel
(I don't know in this case but usually), make an English version...

Anyway I thought the story, how the Mafia wages psychological warfare on an
enemy who is unsuited by temperament and heridity to fight back, was quite
interesting.

It's not just another Italian crime movie, folks.  Well worth a look.
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:55:00 CST
From:         Rolando Recometa <$W$LB4P@LUCCPUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Jeff and Angel video

Jeff,
    It's been out for some time but should still be in the
"new releases" section at Blockbuster. I haven't seen the
video version and am afraid that it would lose some of its
strengths.
                                              Rolando
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 10:55:00 EST
Reply-To:     ELGFROEHRER@PSUCES.BITNET
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From:         ELGFROEHRER@PSUCES.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Six handerchiefs/Ballad of a Soldier

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     15-Dec-1992 10:54am EST
                                        From:     Ellen L. Gfroehrer
                                                  ELGFROEHRER
                                        Dept:     Independent Learning
                                        Tel No:   (814) 865-5403

TO:  VMSMail User _IN%"CINEMA-L           ( _IN%"CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET" )

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Subject: RE: Six handerchiefs/Ballad of a Soldier

Jim:

All the 6 hanky movies you mention are worth watching and crying over,
particularly Now Voyager.  However, there hare plenty of 6 hanky movies not
worth the Kleenex their printed on, can we skip these and list only the good
stuff?

Ellen
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:09:00 EST
From:         AMBLY@CLUST1.CLEMSON.EDU
Subject:      Re: Alex and tears

Rolando:

I may have seen this when it was on TV, but I can't remeber the storyline.
Jeff's comments about the mental illness theme makes me think I may have
caught at least one night of it.  Who starred in it and what was the premise?

Adrian
Clemson
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:39:09 EST
From:         "Michelle Pfeiffer's Purrvert (Yee, Eugene)" <YEE@DICKINSN.BITNET>
Subject:      Thelma & Louise

The ending to _Thelma & Louise_ isn't exactly a pessimistic one.  I thought
it was one of optimism; it doesn't necessarily advocate that suicide is the
answer to oppression.  If I remember correctly, Louise (Geena Davis?) said,
"Let's keep going."  And Thelma (Susan Sarandon) said, "Where?"  To which,
Louise said, "Out there."  When they drove off the cliff, it shows they
weren't going to allow a male-dominated society take them back in; they just
kept going.  The freeze of their car in the sky shows they went on to
something better.  Just my thoughts, though not very coherent at the moment,
since it's the last day of classes today.

Euge
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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:14:00 CST
From:         Rolando Recometa <$W$LB4P@LUCCPUA.BITNET>
Subject:      More critics' awards

NEW YORK CRITICS AWARDS:
   Best Picture - The Player
   Best Actor - Denzel Washington(Malcolm X)
   Best Actress - Emma Thompson(Howard's End)
   Best Director - Robert Altman
   Best Supporting Actor - Gene Hackman(Unforgiven)
   Best Supporting Actress - Miranda Richardson(The Crying Game, Damage,
                                                Enchanted April)
   Best Screenplay - The Crying Game
   Best Foreign Film - Raise the Red Lantern (Hongkong)
NATIONAL BOARD OF REVIEW -
   Best Picture - Howard's End
   Best Actor - Jack Lemmon(Glengarry Glen Ross)
   Best Actress - Emma Thompson(Howard's End)
   Best Director - James Ivory(Howard's End)
   Best Supporting Actor - Jack Nicholson(A Few Good Men)
   Best Supporting Actress - Judy Davis(Husbands and Wives)
   I don't have the winners for the screenplay and foreign film.
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:59:03 -0500
From:         Ens Alexander W Ellermann <ellerman@NORFOLK.NADN.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Re: John and Grand Canyon

>   In GRAND CANYON, I think Kasden is saying that life is rough, but not
> unbearable.  People are not predestined for happiness or punishment.
> Sometimes it just comes down to the luck of the draw.  If your car
> breaks down at night in a bad section of town, it might have dire
consequences.
> Or you might get lucky.  Through it all, I think Kasden believes that
> love has a redemptive power to heal.  Not an original idea, but
> certainly not fatalistic, either.
>
> j-man
>     <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I agree, but my gripe with the film is that he says it over and over and over
and...
                                 Not really in the mood to work outingly,

                                                                        Alex
From: FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
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Subject: Re: Digital and Analog
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:51:55 GMT
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Wils,

Essentially, you're right on target about the confusion and result of all our
conversation on analog vs. digital in laserdiscs.  At any rate, you shouldn't
be receiving any flames on this matter!

Jeff Clark
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:44:21 -0600
From:         CDOMS@UMKCVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Anita's turkeys

Anita had commented about Ben Franklin's desire to see the turkey as
the national bird.  You got to remember he was talking about the "Wild
Turkey" and not the domestic "I'll drown if I look up to the sky
to see where all that rain is comming from" turkeys.

Carol Doms
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:11:06 -0500
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Alex and tears

Rolando, I have indeed seen Angel at My Table, and would probably never have
thought to call it "beautiful," but rather melancholy and tending toward the
leaden-paced.  I would, however, be very interested in hearing your views
on the matter.

michael mcdonald
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:24:28 -0400
From:         FISHERKJ@SNYONEVA.BITNET
Subject:      turkey hubris

Let me suggest (as if we really need such a thing) a Turkey Philosophy:

     "It's more fun to beat up on the big guys than the 98-lb. weaklings."

It's no big deal to fall flat if you haven't aimed high. To me, the real
turkeys aren't the run-of-the-mill, vapid, inane, insipid, jejune,
ordinary crappy movies. The real turkeys are the avatars of the spuriously
transcendent -- the pretentious woiks uv aht that reach for the stars
but wind up in the mud.

I don't mean noble, failed experiments -- even Bergman failed every blue
moon or two. I mean work done by hacks who mistake themselves for artists.
GRAND CANYON is a good example. The laughably overrated L Kasdan is a
reasonably skillful entertainer, but he tries for the Big Picture and
his slim talent can't handle it. (Want The Big Picture? Try CITY OF HOPE.)
HOME ALONE 2 doesn't quality -- it aspires to crappiness and achieves it.

Let's take aim at the braggarts instead of the sleazeballs.

kjf-
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:59:49 GMT
From:         John Smyth <eeijsh@EEIUC.ERICSSON.SE>
Subject:      Turkey Update

Even though I've already nominated "Robin Hood:Prince of Thieves", it
had, at least, the redeeming feature of Alan Rickman (Sheriff of
Nottongham). However, "Grand Canyon" was completely untroubled by
redeeming features, and filled a badly-needed void in the cinema schedules
last year. Turkey of the Year, with feathers!!!!!

John Smyth
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 10:42:54 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Greenaway, Chaplin, lost weekends, & Con Men

Alex,

On Keaton: The General is actually one of his best.  But you might go on to
try Steamboat Bill, Jr. (with an almost hair-raising scene in a storm, once
you realize that--like many of K's and other comedians' stunts of those early
days, it was literally dangerous), and Sherlock Jr. (...Steamboat Bill has
no "Jr"; just realized I was confusing the two titles)--in which K is a
movie projectionist who gets involved with what's developing on screen some
60-odd years before Purple Rose of Cairo.  A very inventive and amusing entry.

On L & H: Funny, but they never occurred to me to be in the same reductionist/
mechanical league as the Three Stooges.  And I don't find their mutually
dependent relationship to prompt a simple feeling of sympathy for Stan be-
cause of what Ollie makes him suffer.  As some wag once put it--more or less
aptly--this pair is a case of one (Stan) knowing he's dumb, the other (Ollie)
not knowing it.  And from time to time, I tend to think that almost any viewer
can find some of his or her self in both of them.  As for a feature to try,
top choice would be Sons of the Desert, which still makes me laugh nearly to
the point of tears, even through its simple henpecked husbands trying to sneak
off to a lodge convention plot.  It's got all their reportoire of shticks, tics,
   and emotions ripened and timed to perfection.  Second choice would be Way Out
West.

JC
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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:21:49 -0600
From:         JACKSOSM@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: updated advice for j-man

JC,

Thanks, again.  Now I've got a lot of shopping to do.

j-man
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 11:27:10 -0600
From:         JACKSOSM@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Aliens3

>.... Having said that, I
>wouldn't call Aliens3 a turkey. No, I'd have to award the prime poultry
>award to good ol' Kevin's "Whining Hood, Prince of Thieves" :-J
>John Smyth

I'd like to add LAWNMOWER MAN to that ignoble list, with BASIC INSTINCT coming
in a close second and, regretfully, DRACULA.  It pains me to lump any
work by Coppola with dreck films like LM and BI, but the old guy (I
know, he's not that old) showed signs of senility with this one.  Fair
or not, we hold the Coppolas of the world to a much higher standard of
filmmaking.  When they let us down, as they invariably will from time to
time, we feel betrayed.  But I would still prefer waiting in line to see
a Coppola failure, than pay my money for the product of an obvious clone
formula like HOME ALONE 2.

j-man
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 11:39:00 CST
From:         Rolando Recometa <$W$LB4P@LUCCPUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: John and Robin

John,
    Did you have to remind me of Robin Hood?! That would have to
rank up there, or down there, with the three turkeys I already mentioned
- 1492, Man Trouble, and Raising Cain. But the saddest part is that
this awful, mean-spirited, badly shot film made a lot of money. The only
bright spot is when Sean Connery appears at the end furtherunderlining
what's sorely missing in the movie - a sense of fun and adventure.
                                              Rolando
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