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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:51:19 -0500
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From:         Stephen Tihor <TIHOR@NYUACF.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Info needed on CSLG and other TEI changes

Ta Fuh Chiam is being a bit too polite here too I think.   The issue of records
keeping and cross tracking is one that both end customers and digital should
work on.   We need a coordinating database of DEC gear.   To maintina that we
need at a minimum a centralized contact for information on new purchases of
Digital systems directly from DEC or indirectly.   On the other hand Digital
should also be able to keep track of all the DEC gear that a single customer
has acquired direct or indirect.   We need to get our purchasing department to
feed data to us as POs go out.  DEC needs to keep track of this information
SOMEWHERE useful.

To make both processes work better each institution needs a contact in the
other to reconcile data that has slipped by.  This would let our salesdroids
know who was available for a suitable digital program.  It would let us know
who to speak to about our internal support and user groups, etc.

Both sides need to work on it.
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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:58:07 EST
              <DECTEI-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         Ta Fuh Chiam <chiam@VULCAN.CBA.OHIOU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: PATHworks TEI license bundle question

>No, that does not mean that at all. As I'm sure you know, licensing has always
>been available separately from LPS. We don't need LPS for these machines.
>Instead, we can buy an update license (currently quoted by our DECdirect sales
>rep for about $16) and an update Hkit for those machines if and when we need to
>run a newer version of client software. Betsy Carroll confirmed yesterday that
>the license bundle is in fact "locked in" to the version of the client software
>that exists at the time of the bundle purchase.

Oops, I forgot about the update license.

Since you have ESL, you do know that the incremental cost for systems above 100
is zero. This of course assume that you have a large amount of systems at your
site. The cost for enrolling into ESL may be cheaper if you have a lot of
systems.

============================================================================
Ta Fuh Chiam
Ohio University, College of Business Administration / Phone: (614)593-2088
Management Information Systems                        FAX:   (614)593-0319
Copeland Hall 22                   INTERNET : chiam@vulcan.cba.ohiou.edu
Athens, Ohio 45701, U.S.A.            or    : chiam@ouvaxa.ucls.ohiou.edu
                                   BITNET   : CHIAM@OUACCVMB
                          Use my first Internet address if at all possible.
Disclaimer: What I have said are my opinions, not of anyone else.
============================================================================
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:59:25 -0600
              <DECTEI-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         buchanan@BME8.UTMEM.EDU
Subject:      Re: Info needed on CSLG and other TEI changes

>Your case is the best example of why I say Digital does not understand how its
>customers work. I had a long talk with our local sales rep. yesterday and one
>topic that came up was that Digital has to reduce the coverage for customers
 >who
>do not have a large budget set up for purchasing stuff from Digital. It makes
>sense on the surface since the first business rules is to hit the bottom line
>and concentrate on where the money is. I certainly understand that but Digital
>fails to realize that education customers very often do not have a fixed budget
>for new equipment purchase BUT we do look for grant money and Digital is not
>doing much to try to "grab" this money. In other words, Digital fails to see
>where the money is and is missing the boat! Remember, education customers very
>often work in "Chaos Net."
Not only does DEC appear not to understand how its customers work, a
point I also made before which received tremendous criticism from some
members of this group, DEC appears not to understand WHO its customers
are.  I received a cold call from a local DEC person with whom I had
not previously talked regarding a DECstation whose warranty was ending.
 I said I had been trying for over a year to come up with a unified
maintenance approach for our 10 DECstations and assorted VAXstations
and, after a meeting, we are possibly on the road to a satisfactory
arrangement using the Campus Service Agreement (assuming the rules
don't change to drastically)--a positive sign.  While going through
this process however, we determined DEC's records had not a clue as to
the existence of our "work group" of computers (other than the one
which caused the call from DEC) though they do have all of the serial
numbers in their data base.  They are listed as being owned by one of
the University's purchasing agents (now retired) who, most likely, has
never seen a DECstation.   The listed location address is a loading
dock in a different building.  This is in spite of the fact I had made
several specific calls to the local DEC sales office about maintenance
on these machines and complained to this list.  I'm not sure we
education customers are the only people working in "Chaos Net."
        Jack Buchanan
        Biomedical Engineering
        University of Tennessee, Memphis
        buchanan@bme1.utmem.edu
        (I really, really don't want to be a DEC basher; honest.)
From: BTS@RTI.BITNET (Brian Sweeny)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dectei-l
Subject: PATHworks TEI license bundle question
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:15:58 GMT
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Hi,

My site is considering the purchase of several 100-unit PATHworks client
license bundles as offered by TEI. The machines these licenses are destined for
will not participate in the ESL. In fact, the PC's haven't been purchased yet,
and will be received over a period of 6 months or more.

By the time the last of the machines is delivered, it is likely that an updated
version of PATHworks client software will be out. If we buy the license bundle
today, can we apply the most recent version of client software to machines as
we get 'em in, or are we "locked in" to the version of the client software that
exists at the time we buy the license bundle?

Thanks for any replies!

  Brian Sweeny                          (919) 541-6759
  Ragland Computer Center               internet: bts@rcc.rti.org
  Research Triangle Institute           bitnet:   bts@rti
  RTP, N.C. 27709
From: TERRY@SPCVXA.BITNET (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dectei-l
Subject: Info needed on CSLG and other TEI changes
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:11:23 GMT
              <DECTEI-L@UBVM.BITNET>
Organization: St. Peter's College, US
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  Apparently some information was distributed at the recent DECUS Symposium
regarding recent and upcoming changes to the CSLG and TEI programs. Please
remember that < 10% of the DECUS membership gets to Symposia and that not
all of the folks who have an interest in this material are DECUS members.

  Policies and prices have changed (some as long ago as several months), yet
I have not seen a new price list here. This has put many of my purchasing
decisons on hold.

  Specific issues are:

  1) We were in the process of applying for the CSLG when our DEC sales rep
     told us to wait because "major changes are coming".

  2) We used to get a DBA discount and then use the TEI discount to bring the
     total discount to 30%. We were told that "commodity" items would be re-
     priced and our DBA would no longer apply to those items, but that it
     (and the TEI) _would_ continue to apply to spare parts, etc. where the
     prices were _not_ reduced. We find that there is no TEI allowance on any
     DEC purchase, and that the DBA discount is random (a 8-port DECserver
     700 is not discounted, but the 16-port one is discounted. With our DBA
     that makes the 16-port one about $150 cheaper than the 8-port one. It's
     a shame I need modem control.

  3) There used to be a TEI price list distributed through this mailing list
     which gave the actual prices we would pay for items, rather than trying
     to figure out which discounts applied to what. I haven't seen such a list
     in quite some time.

  Can some authorative information be posted ASAP?

  [Note - I am _NOT_ complaining about new prices being higher than old prices
(if in fact that is the case). I _AM_ complaining that information is simply
unavailable and this is making me defer decisions or seek alternative vendors
(I have had a call into Corporate Customer Relations for over 2 weeks trying
to find out how much I should be paying for DECserver 700's. It is really dis-
tressing to realize that _nobody_ in Digital knows the answer to this question,
or if they do, they're not communicating it). I am looking at buying wiring,
terminal servers, and Ethernet repeaters as well as FDDI gear for wiring a new
dorm we are building, as well as evaluating systems in the 7000-610/620 class
for a CPU upgrade. I simply _cannot_ get accurate, responsive pricing info and
this is making me look at other vendors.]

        Terry Kennedy           Operations Manager, Academic Computing
        terry@spcvxa.bitnet     St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
        terry@spcvxa.spc.edu    +1 201 915 9381
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dectei-l
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 09:16:00 EST
              <DECTEI-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         "Tracy S. Holt" <HOLT@GMUVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Info needed on CSLG and other TEI changes

>Add me to the list of those who NEED more information on this
>same issue.  I also have had to put purchasing decisions on hold
>or seek other vendors.
>
>I was at the recent DECUS and while I didn't get to attend the
>actual session where these announcements were made, I spoke with
>a couple of people who did.  They said that there would be a new
>Educational price list and TEI members would get an additional 7%
>discount.  Is this true?  Not for sure.
>
>Please, please Digital, relay this information to use.  If anyone
>knows about this, I'm sure it is Ellen Minter.  She has always been
>up to date on the TEI issues.  Ellen, can you help here?
>

I attended the session with the announcements. There will be a revised
TEI program that Ellen said would be announced around mid-January, 1993.
My notes say that she will post the announcement to this list as soon as
she can.

Tracy S. Holt
George Mason University
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dectei-l
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:42:20 EST
              <DECTEI-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         Ta Fuh Chiam <chiam@VULCAN.CBA.OHIOU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: PATHworks TEI license bundle question

>My site is considering the purchase of several 100-unit PATHworks client
>license bundles as offered by TEI. The machines these licenses are destined for
>will not participate in the ESL. In fact, the PC's haven't been purchased yet,
>and will be received over a period of 6 months or more.
>
>By the time the last of the machines is delivered, it is likely that an updated
>version of PATHworks client software will be out. If we buy the license bundle
>today, can we apply the most recent version of client software to machines as
>we get 'em in, or are we "locked in" to the version of the client software that
>exists at the time we buy the license bundle?

I believe you are "locked in." If your PCs are not going to participate in ESL,
that means they do not receive the rights-to-new-versions and so you are stuck
with the version that exists when you purchase the license.

The question I have for you is this: Since you do not want these PCs to
participate in ESL, how are you going to get rights-to-new-version? If these are
not going to be on ESL or you do not want any layered product support (phone
support and rights-to-new-version), that means you do not want new versions of
the software. Then why are you concerned about using the new version? I guess I
am a little puzzled.

============================================================================
Ta Fuh Chiam
Ohio University, College of Business Administration / Phone: (614)593-2088
Management Information Systems                        FAX:   (614)593-0319
Copeland Hall 22                   INTERNET : chiam@vulcan.cba.ohiou.edu
Athens, Ohio 45701, U.S.A.            or    : chiam@ouvaxa.ucls.ohiou.edu
                                   BITNET   : CHIAM@OUACCVMB
                          Use my first Internet address if at all possible.
Disclaimer: What I have said are my opinions, not of anyone else.
============================================================================
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:00:00 EST
              <DECTEI-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         SYSOP@ALBION.BITNET
Subject:      need uudecode program

I don't know if this is the correct list to send to, but.....
I received a message that was encoded using the program uuencode.
Therefore, I need the decoding program call uudecode to make it legible.
Can anyone send me this file or tell me how to get it.
We are not yet on Internet, only bitnet.  I do have a modem and can connect
to Michnet, but I have no user account so that I can ftp a file down.
Please help if you can.
Thanks much.

Shirley
SYSOP@ALBION.BITNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dectei-l
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:54:56 -0500
              <DECTEI-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         Stephen Tihor <TIHOR@NYUACF.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: PATHworks TEI license bundle question

I too am curious about this.   The RTNV support package is one that DEC
has opposed for many years since it would permit users to (a) not buy TSC
since they know what they are doing or (b) no buy TSC becuase TSC was
useless or (c) not buy TSC becuase they planned to "steal" the support
by keeping only one node under contract.

Item C is a legitimate concern.  Item a is bad business.  Item b is bad business
are bears an unpleasant resemble to "bundling", a practice tht must always
be view with caution since it is often not in the customers interest and
thus drives them (in their enlightened self interest) to other vendors.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dectei-l
From: osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Subject: Re: DEC File Optimizer
Organization: CS
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:37:50 GMT


Well, I've used both DFO and Diskeeper.  DK4 was great, the changes made
to DK5 sucked rocks, now DK6 has all the great stuff back in it.

DFO just doesn't seem to really pack it.  In a single pass, DK frees up
more disk space than DFO does on identically fragmented disks, in one 
local test.

DFO's requirement for run-time RDB is a pain.

Overall, I will stay with Diskeeper for the machines that need serious
defragging, lots of usage, whatever, and use DFO on the lightly used stuff
that I don't feel is all that important to have maximum contiguous freespace.

On the otherhand, DFO is free, can't argue with that.

Of course, there was some mention a while back of problems with the MOVEFILE
primitive, which I suspect that DFO would make heavy use of.  The DK people
recommend NOT using MOVEFILE.  This may have changed with later releases of
VMS.
-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@cs.montana.edu
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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:45:00 EST
              <DECTEI-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         "Anna Tomecka, x7733" <ANNA@CLARKU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: PATHworks TEI license bundle question

>I believe you are "locked in." If your PCs are not going to participate in ESL,
>that means they do not receive the rights-to-new-versions and so you are stuck
>with the version that exists when you purchase the license.
>

Does this mean that if do participate in ESL, I have the
rights-to-new-versions free of cost?  And I do not have to purchase the client
LPS?  I thought that I do have to purchase the LPS (about $10 a station a
month) for the right to run the current version of software and technical
support.  I wouldn't be concerned about technical support, but I
certainly am about the current version.  Does anybody have a clear
understanding how the maintenance of Pathworks works?  Thanks in advance.

Anna Tomecka
Systems Manager, Clark University
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 09:35:26 -0500
              <DECTEI-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         "Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr" <TERRY@SPCVXA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Info needed on CSLG and other TEI changes

Tracy S. Holt <HOLT@GMUVAX.BITNET> writes:

> I attended the session with the announcements. There will be a revised
> TEI program that Ellen said would be announced around mid-January, 1993.
> My notes say that she will post the announcement to this list as soon as
> she can.

  The problem is that we have funds that must be spent by the end of the year.
Without having a price or knowing what discount, if any, is in place we can't
place orders with Digital and will be forced to go elsewhere to get a firm
price quote on "commodity hardware". Having gone elsewhere, we might discover
that prices are lower, or delivery faster, or... It's a trend I'd rather not
start, but I'm being forced into it.

  Some policies changed as far back as November 2nd (if not earlier). I find
it hard to believe that we can't get a simple statement of what the policies
_currently__in_force_ are...

  Further, Ellen writes:

Date: 03 Nov 1992 15:00:37 -0800 (PST)
From: ELLEN MINTER * 297-2461 * EDUCATION MARKETING <minter@MR4DEC.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject: Education Pricing Program 1

[text deleted]

    You will no longer have to endure tedious, time-consuming price
    negotiations on discounts.  And you will be assured that you are
    getting the best prices available to all education customers -- whether
    you receive them from me or from one of Digital's direct order
    channels.

[text deleted]

    P.S. There will be a new U.S. TEI Desktop Price List distributed prior to
    the November 10, Alpha Announcement.

[end included text]

  So, instead of "tedious, time-consuming price negotiations on discounts",
I now get an honest "we don't know and we don't know how to find out" from
both DECdirect and CCR. Sounds like a step in the wrong direction to me.

  [Again, I am _not_ complaining about price. I am long past that point - if
Digital doesn't have a competitive price I'll go elsewhere. It's just not
possible to find out _if_ Digital has a competitive price since nobody knows
what is going on.]

        Terry Kennedy           Operations Manager, Academic Computing
        terry@spcvxa.bitnet     St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
        terry@spcvxa.spc.edu    +1 201 915 9381
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 11:08:38 -0500
              <DECTEI-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         Robert Lowe <LOWER@LAWRENCE.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DEC File Optimizer

>Date: 10 Dec 1992 13:03:01 -0700
>From: Jim Kirkpatrick <JIMKIRK@CORRAL.UWYO.EDU>
>
>Re the PAK: Yes.
>
>Generally, DFO seems to be very slow.  I almost think a dump/reload would
>be faster, but probably not (especially if you do it frequently).  And note
>that no defragger I know of will fix the INDEXF.SYS file, and you can still
>get the dreaded no-more-headers problem that requires dump/reload.

I don't run the product yet, but I can clarify something about the
INDEXF.SYS file.  The initial four clusters hold the volume boot block (VBN
1) and the first home block (VBN 2); the rest are copies, and these are
spread geometrically across the disk.  This way, in cases of "minor" media
failures (slight head touch-down), it is less likely that all copies would
be destroyed, leaving you some possibility of recovery.
..............................................................................
Robert Lowe                          Voice:  414/832-6572
System and Network Manager           FAX:    414/832-6962
Lawrence University                  e-mail: lower@lawrence.edu    (Internet)
Appleton, WI 54912                           lower@lawrence.bitnet (Bitnet)
U.S.A.
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 10:18:00 EDT
              <DECTEI-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         Bob Lang <LANG@ISIS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: need uudecode program (resend with my .sig)

Hi there,

If you have OpenVMS 5.5 and Posix 1.1 installed, you are in luck. uudecode is
included in POSIX. If you don't have them installed, there are several public
domain uudecode programs available from various sources.

E-mail directly to me if you need more help.

rml
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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