HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hankwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Y. Wong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Super Power in new century and Yellow Peril
Date: 31 Dec 1992 09:25:15 GMT
Organization: Renegade Legion
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: whirlwind.berkeley.edu
Keywords: china, invasion, taiwan, un

Couple of things I would like to add about the discussion over the
potentiality of PRC invading ROC (Taiwan):

First of all, PRC has all but flat out stated that it will invade Taiwan
if it declares independence.  That is why the people of Taiwan (who are
Chinese-ge, not Taiwanese-ge, unless you're talking about the aboriginies)
are chicken to support independence and still stick with KMT.  I guess
they prefer status quo (prosperity but less freedom) vs almost certain
disaster (invasion).  Anyway, PRC seems bent on taking Taiwan at ALL costs, if
it comes down to that.  Someone posted in s.c.t. an all-encompassing invasion
plan that sounded pretty tough to counter.  Besides,
 Foreign pressure isn't going to scare PRC off- it
didnt do so after Tiananmen massacre.

Second of all, sorry to break your hopes, Dwight Joe, but there is no way
the UN will ever intervene if PRC invades Taiwan.  Like you
said, Taiwan is a non-political entity. It is not even in the UN.  
Also, remember that PRC is one of the five permanent members of the Security
Council and thus would certainly veto any sort of resoultion, or at least
be able to block action until it is too late (which is not too hard with the
UN you know.)  Last of all, UN is overrated- its track record sucks.  Just
look at its ineptness in Bosnia, Cambodia, and to a lesser extent Somalia.
By the time UN votes to actually forcefully go into Bosnia, if it even does
so, it will only arrive in time to pick up the pieces.  And they aint doing
sh*t in Cambodia.  Taiwan cannot rely on anybody else for its defense,
it's gotta do it on its own.

Now that I think about it, what does this have anything to do with scaa??
-- 
******************************************************************************
Hank Wong		<hankwong@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Struggling ME student  (when not managing his rotisserie and softball teams)

"I played high school football!!!..." -Al Bundy
"You guys are pathetic!..." -Murphy Brown
"Denial is not just a river in Egypt, you know." -Stuart Smalley
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: russil@idacom.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Subject: Books on Asian-American history
Reply-To: russil@idacom.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, IDACOM Telecommunications Division
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 00:33:05 GMT

Happy New Year!  I hope everyone enjoyed the holidays.  While doing my
Christmas shopping, I came across a couple of books that people here
might be interested in:

James Dubro.  Dragons of Crime:  Inside the Asian Underworld.

    Discusses Asian (Chinese and Vietnamese) gangs in Canada, with
    particular attention to their history.  Despite the lurid title,
    I thought the book was well researched and reasonably objective,
    compared to the rather sensationalistic coverage of Asian gangs
    that you see in the newspapers and on TV.  There's quite a bit of
    space devoted to historical racism against Asians in Canada, and lots
    of references to other books about Asians in Canada, including the
    one below.  (Dubro is a journalist who used to work for the CBC.)
 
Lynn Pan.  Sons of the Yellow Emperor:  The History of the Overseas Chinese.

    I've only read the first few chapters, but it looks like an excellent
    book, with lots of details about Chinese settlement in places I'd never
    heard of (e.g. Cuba, Mauritius, South Africa, France).  Starts with
    emigration into southeast Asia in the sixteenth century, and continues
    from there.  (Lynn Pan was born in Shanghai, but grew up in Britain.)

-- Russil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ca.politics,soc.motss
Subject: Re: More AIDS absurdity - 1Billion AIDS cases
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 10:43:19 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <71964@cup.portal.com> <1992Dec18.214641.158@netcom.com>

For more information on the SF YOung Men's survey, ask for a 1991 edition
of any of SF HIV surveys from SF Office of AIDS.

Again, no one has mentioned that the survey is proof that use of condoms
is not correlated with low HIV+. If there are any studies that show this
correlation, I'd like to see it, because DanWohlfieler of the stop AIDS
coalition is still telling people that a high number of partners is not
dangerous as long as condoms are used. As long as gays enage in anal
intercourse at a higher rate than the general population, condoms or not,
they will have a higher HIV infection rate. Is this a price the gay 
community is willing to pay in exchange for sexual freedom? Certainly, many
gays in the late 70's made politicals statments that they gladly accepted
STD's and sickness as the badge of sexual liberation. It seems that AIDS
is being treated the same way.
From: david@elwood.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: On Languages and Asian Americans
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:52:45 GMT

bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan) writes:
>From personal experience, I've known many ChineseAs who regret that
>their parents didn't force them to learn Chinese (note, I didn't use
>the word force by accident).  I've also known many who could care
>less.  I myself right now am trying relearn the handful of Cantonese
>I know.

None of my cousins in Hawaii learned Hawaiian but wanted to learn.
Their parents were basically the last generation who spoke Hawaiian
but refused to teach their children the language.  They would even
send the children out of the house when they spoke Hawaiian.  Some
of my cousins have taken classes but it is not the same as being
raised speaking it.

>So I ask you, what will you want for your children?  In the growing
>interracial marriage scene, should we expect our children to learn
>3 or 4 different languages (Spanish/English/Chinese trilingual in the
>aforementioned poster's son's case).  (and lets keep this a friendly
>debate :)

I lived on an island in Micronesia for two years and it was VERY
common for people to speak more than three languages.  I even met
a three year old child who could speak three languages and he
even knew which language he should use to speak to a given individual.

My wife wants our son to be trilingual (English/Cantonese/Burmese).
I might teach him a few of some other languages that I know
(Spanish/Mandarin/Pohnpeian/Mokilese).

It is my observation that children learn languages easier than
adults.  Adults might learn structure better but children will
be able to pronounce better and be able to "think" in the language
easier.  They might get a little mixed up with the languages at first
but they will learn to sort them out like that Micronesian child.


-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jenn@Objy.COM (Jennifer Hom)
Subject: Re: On Languages and Asian Americans
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Reply-To: jenn@objy.com
Organization: Objectivity, Inc.
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 00:48:42 GMT

In article <1hm0srINNn6n@agate.berkeley.edu>, atom@soda.berkeley.edu (Allen Tom) writes:
|> In article <1go32jINN1fc@agate.berkeley.edu> bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan) writes:
|> >
|> >From personal experience, I've known many ChineseAs who regret that
|> >their parents didn't force them to learn Chinese (note, I didn't use
|> >the word force by accident).  I've also known many who could care
|> >less.  I myself right now am trying relearn the handful of Cantonese
|> >I know.
|> 
|> I regret that my parents didn't force me to learn Cantonese. (They were born
|> in China, too!) Not knowing my own language is one of my bigest shames. It's
|> embarassing. 
|> 
|> I might take a Mandarin class next semester though...  but I'd really perfer
|> to learn Cantonese.

I'll second that.  My parents did "force" me to learn it when I was
really young (no other choice, really, since my grandparents didn't speak English that well back then).  After I started school, though, I wasn't required to speak Cantonese at home and so eventually forgot.  I really wish they had forced me to speak even after I started school.  It's really frustrating not being able to remember certain key words in a sentence when talking with someone.  It's even more frustrating because some of my relatives don't speak any English at all.  I remember just enough to carr

y on a conversation ... slowly.  If it goes to fast, I just can't keep up.  And sometimes I'll use the wrong word, or just forget how to say certain things.

When I was young, my parents didn't have the money or the time to send me to Chinese school (the only one that they knew of that taught in Cantonese was 30 miles away).  Learning to read and write in Chinese is one of the things my parents can really get to bugging me about.  It's also one of those things that I'd really like to learn how to do, if only I had the time and the patience.

At this point, I think the only way for my language skills to improve is to get totally immersed in it for a while and be forced do things.  Learning how to read and write?  I don't know if I'll ever be able to do that, but if I do have children, I want to make sure that they'll be able to.

 - jenn

-- 
Why does life have to be filled with so many *big* struggles?  The little
ones are quite enough for me to try to handle ...
=========================================================================
       jenn@netcom.com *** jenn@objy.com *** jenn@soda.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: American History?
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:41:14 GMT

mike@clubmezz.Berkeley.EDU (Michael T. Itamura) writes:
>
>How do other SCAA readers feel about American History?  Do you
>'identify' with events that happened in this country that happened
>before you or your progenitors arrived in this country?  Or are those
>historical events merely events that you think of as 'other peoples
>history?'

First a qualifier, I'm Canadian ...

North American history before my family's actual arrival (in bits
and pieces commencing at the turn of the century to Western Canada
and to California) helped the shape the society that my predecessors
arrived into and drove the course of that society (or, societies) as
time proceeded.  The aftermath of the Oregon Border Dispute (54'40 or
Fight) determined that my father's father, at 17, landed in Vancouver,
British Columbia rather than one of two Vancouvers in Washington ...
While none of my ancestors were ever in Prince Edward Island, now or
in the past, watching "Avonlea" on the Disney Channel makes apparent
to me what society was like in other parts of English Canada which
ended up influencing the culture of our Atlantic region.  As much as
including the history of Asians in North America makes everything more
complete, excluding other parts blinds one to what makes things the way
they are and can frustrate one's efforts to motivate change.  Complete-
ness is the key ...

One example of exclusionary blinders is that I have oft read American
ultraconservatives and libertarians accusing Canada and Europe of
"socialism" for practices that have lingered from long before Marx
and Engels or for that matter their respective ancestors ... liquor
laws in English Canada are historical artifacts of Victorianism ...
Napoleon Bonaparte esconced French cultural practices in the Code
Civil which outlines a citizen's obligations to society around him.
I witnessed Bismarck's doctrine, similiar to the Clinton campaign's
slogans of investing in infrastructure including the people, at work
when a director of Commerzbank stumped for Germany's advantages in
having universal health insurance (just insurance which pays out to
private doctors and hospitals, a system also used in France and in
Canada (despite what lobbyists would tell you otherwise)) at a spring
German-American Chamber of Commerce dinner my future father-in-law
took me to ...

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Support NAFTA
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			 Eat Mexican  (El Teddy's ad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: CU/GE
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 04:09:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.204540.29568@midway.uchicago.edu>
tsh2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>what does this cu and ge mean?  example: Chinese-ge or Chinese-cu
>-- 
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  Tad S. Hwang
>"What happened to that nice decent boy I used |  tsh2@midway.uchicago.edu
>   to know...?"                               |  the university of chicago
>        -leslie wintheiser                    |


The following should explain it well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article 14423 of soc.culture.asian.american:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: Asian-male stereotyping, how?
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 00:03:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.233314.518@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>...	You seem to think very highly of Japanese culture. Well...
>
>No, that's not correct.  At no point have I ever said that Japanese-cu
>culture is better than Western-cu culture.  Mr. James Pak (jpak@oakhill.
>manute.mot.com), who backlogs much of the stuff on s.c.a.a, can be queried
>about some of my previous posts on s.c.a.a., where I specifically criticize
>Japanese-cu thinking in several respects.

Hi Dwight,

Hope you had a Merry Xmas, and I hope 1993 will be a good year for you.

That being said, can you do me a big favor in the future?  You haven't been
correctly citing my e-mail address.  It's not jpak@oakhill.manute.mot.com.
It's jpak@manute.sps.mot.com.  Unfortunately, this is twice now you've made
that mistake.

Thanks in advance.

>I have already noted this; Ms. Covington should ask Mr. Pak to repost the
>only article that I wrote but which he thought was very good.

Actually, I think several to many of your posts are good.  In fact, the ones
where you concentrate on Japan and don't talk about China are usually pretty
informative and/or insightful.  In fact, the ones where you don't talk about
China, period, whatever the topic is, tend to pretty good on the whole.

I'm not sure which particular post you were referring to above, but if you
can pin it down, I'll try to find it.

>>		Maiko Covington
>> (pulls up asbestos undies)
>
>Mai-chan, undies o kite iru toki kawaii n desu ka.

Man, what I wouldn't give to know what that last sentence means.  :-)

Jim
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:11085 alt.politics.clinton:19008
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Political Power--Why the quotas?
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:34:25 GMT
Organization: RAND

I really wonder if many of the "no quota" folks have actually had the
task of hiring someone for a position.  There are simply so many variables
involved that it frequently is impossible to rank one person from the top
of the pool over another.  Even such major elements as experience don't
always form clear-cut criteria; what if flexibility is of great importance,
and long experience carries the risk of thinking too heavily tied to
past methods?  There often is no clear way of knowing, so one has to
be content with making a short list of the best candidates, and choosing
from them based on intangibles that, in the final analysis, might as
well be random.

I've no problem with external factors being brought to bear at this point,
such as a desire for diversity.  In fact, my own experience is that
diversity of backgrounds and viewpoints often pays off handsomely in group
decision-making by short-circuiting some of the more egregious artifacts
of "group-think."

In choosing a cabinet I think there are even greater motivations for
choosing diversity.  The President is the leader of all Americans, not
just white male Americans.  A cabinet that "looks like America" could be
justified on pragmatic grounds as being an important component in this
broad base for leadership.  Personally, I don't need any more
justification than that, since I feel that there is such diversity in
the pool of capable candidates that persuing this goal sacrifices far
less than it accomplishes.

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Asian-male stereotyping, how?
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 01:49:11 GMT

In article <42957@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> mcovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington)
writes:

I don't know who this was addressed to, but I'll bite.

>Hmmm. Just because someone is not using YOUR system, don't assume
>they mean 'Chinese genetic'. Have you ever stopped to consider that
>to some people 'Chinese' might mean 'Chinese cultured'? Just because

As I've pointed out, 50 or more times, terms like "Chinese" and "German"
connotate 3 separate concepts:  ethnicity, culture, and citizenship.
This leads to confusion, and unless the speaker explicitly notes the
intent of his words, one could misconstrue the true intent.  However,
some people (Chinese-cu Chinese-ge, in particular) do this on purpose.

Chinese-cu bozos say,

(1)    "You aren't White.  You are Chinese.  You should be more Chinese."

Here are two interpretations--both equally valid.

(2) "You aren't White-ge.  You are Chinese-ge.  You should be more Chinese-cu."
(3) "You aren't White-ge.  You are Chinese-ge.  You should be more Chinese-ge."

#2 is racist, but #3 is not (though it is a bit nonsensical).  Then again,
#3 is stating a fact:

                    a = a   (reflexive property in mathematics)
           Chinese-ge = Chinese-ge
            German-ge = German-ge

Chinese-cu bozos frequently state #1 when they intend #2.  They use
the ambiguity in #1 to hide their racist intent, which is made obvious
by the use of my notation.

>they are saying 'Chinese' does NOT imply that they necessarily
>believe that all those with Chinese blood have Chinese culture.

It is _up_ to the speaker to note explicitly what he is saying.
Why should the listener be faulted for the intentional ambiguity of
the speaker?

In English (as taught in the West), it is incumbent upon the
_speaker_/_writer_ to make his point clear and unambiguous.  If he
intentionally (or otherwise) tries to use ambiguity, then the listener
is obliged to interpret matters as she sees fit.

> *I*
>don't, when I say 'Chinese'.

Then, Maichan (Ms. Covington) should state explicitly what she
means without ambiguity.  Stating one's point with out ambiguity
is the burden of the speaker, as I learned in high school English.

Perhaps, Maichan and I learned English differently.

>		MaiKO

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992, 1993    Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                    |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Re: Asian cliques. Why?
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 10:17:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.173205.8487@ee.gatech.edu> wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu writes:
>In article 2560@usna.NAVY.MIL, wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>) writes:
>>|In article <1992Dec15.180526.8118@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam) writes:
>>|>2.  For those of us out of school, the chance of meeting AA is kinda
>>|>slim (I am in the windy city not bay area).  So when I see other AA's
>>|>around we feel kinda close.
>>|
>>|This reminds me of a Japanese couple I met once.  They were living in Denver.
>>|When I asked them how they had met, they told me they were the only two
>>|Japanese people in Denver.
>>|
>
>Hmmm, kind of interesting, Denver actually has one of the larger concentration 
>of Japanese people in the US.  I remember going to Japanese grocery
>stores and nurseries as a kid because there were no chinese groceries
>and the Japanese nursery was the only place where we can get the material for 
>making tofu.  This was before tofu became a health food.  8^)
>
Well I don't know about the Japanese population over there now but when
I lived in Denver (suburban Englewood to be exact),  I hardly saw any
Japanese (or Asian-ge) looking people.  This was back in the 70's.  However
I must agree with Peter that there weren't  *any* chinese grocery store
around.  I do recall that there was this *huge* Japanese store in


--
|       Daniel Lam  danl@comm.mot.com  Chicago, Il, USA         |  
|...  Merry Xmas, Don't drink and spike, Don't drink and jibe,  |
|  Don't drink and blade, oops this last one does not rythm ....|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: (defensio libertatis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Women & Makeup, was Re: Homosexuality/Bise
Date: 22 Dec 1992 01:11:00 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: trinity.ebay.sun.com

 Michael F. Kamprath writes:

> Hey, I prefer women who don't wear make up -- they look more natural.  But
> then again, I should be ashamed of that.  I mean, having a preference in the
> type of women you date is quite un-PC and there are those who would claim I
> have a "no makeup-fetish".
> 
> :-)

Actually, it's having a preference and not denying it which is quite un-PC.

-M. Aurelius Insularum

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: taiwan verses korea
Date: 31 Dec 92 15:50:15 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


I hear that Taiwan is organizing a boycott of korean products
in retaliation for Korea's recognition of Red China ( and the
resulting breaking of relations with Taiwan )

Most taiwanese people still like korean people, althought they
hate the korean government.
But of course, whenever two governments lock horns, some people
from both sides take it personally. Doesn't matter what the
nationality or religion or ethnic group we are talking about.

So is there a boycott in effect ?




A side note;
Korean males have a reputation for beating their wives.
This stereotype is so strong that a female friend from
taiwan had to argue with her parents that her korean 
fiance(not me!) is not like that at all. Her parents are
very worried that once married, she will be treated terribly
by the korean.

Oh well...   ALL generalizations are bad. Without exception.

- jon