HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 12 Jan 1993 03:14:32 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan11.182347.10466@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>It's generating too much software support to be called "bogus".  It works

Umm, so was MS-DOS.

>well and supports applications the likes of which no other system can offer.
>Like it or not, most computers are used for applications, not games and
>demos.

Perhaps you'd sound less dumb if you avoided trying to use
applications to justify the OS at the moment.  If that were true, Plan
9 would probably be a pointless, dead OS, as would OS/9.  Fortunately,
they're two extremely good OSes.  The existence or lack of
applications does not justify an operating environment/system.

Greg
--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: Will PC Makers Survive Multimedia?? 
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 01:25:57 GMT

In article <C0K1nC.B8B@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod) writes:

>>And an MPC is? Care to elaborate on this one?

>An MPC is a 386 with a sound board and CD-ROM that have interfaces to
>work with MPC compliant windows programs.  That means if you buy an MPC
>machine (theoretically) your sound board and CD-ROM should work with
>all MPC software.  Nobody ever checks, but I've never heard of an
>incompatibility. 

I realize what an MPC machine is. I was questioning the fact that you
mentioned it in the same context as an effective system for instructional
delivery. For me, this is a non sequitur.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad)
Subject: Re: CBM does it again... 23 watt p.s. for A1200?!?
Organization: University of Helsinki
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:08:17 GMT

Marc N. Barrett (barrett@iastate.edu) wrote:

> >>has to be about the most ridiculous... come on, why not give us a standard
> >>150 or 200 watt p.s.  How much could it cost?
> >
> >$80 extra ? And most folx wouldn't use it and could as well get problems
> 
>    BS on both counts.  I can get nice 150W power supplies with built-in fans
> and numerous outputs for $40 new, in tiny quantities (IE: one).  Think of how

However, if a power supply withg enough wats for the system for 99.5%
of the users (of that particular system) is $10 cheaper than the 150W
supply, you should see why Commodore takes the cheaper choise. (simple
math - asume that Commodore will sell 2 million A1200's in next few
years - 10Mx10=100M. Savings of 100M is quite a bit for a company of
size of Commodore, even if it's spread over a few years. Hell, even if
the price difference were $1 it would be a much better choise to use
the cheaper alternative as long as 99% of users would find it good
enough - you should realizre that all those small savings together
make larger savings. However, we all know that in your opinion A1200
should be the absolute low end machine with 68040 and preferably a 486
too, and equipped with SVGA, Windows and 300 bhp power supply and with
a $49.96 price tag).

-- 
Jarkko Lindblad         | sleep my friend and you will see
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi | that dream is my reality
------------------------| they keep me locked up in this cage
          - MetallicA - | can't they see it's why my brain say rage
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:01:35 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
:
: >BTW, if the program you allegedly wrote is a DOS program, no wonder it
: >killed your system.  All programs terminate by calling exit().  If your
: >program stomps over the OS handler for the exit() call, gee I wonder what'll
: >happen...
:
: It was a Windows program that would look for the image and remove it
: with zeros, and then exit.  It never returned, the system locked.
:

Windows programs run in Protected Mode, which uses virtual addressing.
You thought you were overwriting DOS, but you probably overwrote something
else.

In any case, even if you don't have the source, perhaps you could describe
the method you used to search memory for the resident DOS kernel?

: Greg
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Distribution: world
Date: 4 Jan 93 09:00:52 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1993Jan3.185526.14646@samba.oit.unc.edu> John.Carver@launchpad.unc.edu (John Carver) writes:
>
>I just saw, at a major computer store, a 486/33 machine from a major clone
>vendor advertized for $999.  This $999 price *inluded* a 15 inch monitor,
>SVGA graphics in 1024x768x8, and a 2400 modem.
>
>Alas I think there is no way Commodore can compete with that.  Even
>though Commodore clearly has a better, more powerful system, quality
>does *not* sell computers.  Price sells computers.
>
>I thought 486s would bottom out at about $1500, but they appear to have
>kept on falling in price.  Wonder where it will stop?  Although I find
>the working environments on clones unbearably primitive, you have to
>admit that a 486/33 is a lot of CPU horsepower for $999 *with* monitor.

How much memory did it have?
What size disk did it have?
Was the monitor non-interlaced?
And was the processor a 486DX/33, a 486SX/33, or a Cyrix 486DLC/33?

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		  merk!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:15:09 GMT

In article <1iani1INN6ha@mozz.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>'>Actually I use a 486-50DX2 at work with 16M Ram, and running Windows 3.1 is
>'>a joke... gah... the response from my stock A500 is much better.. though it
>'>would be nice to have a decent screen saver for the amiga that does not take
>'>up too much of my ram..
>
>	I love these comments.  I am certainly no big fan of Windows 3.x, but
>   on my 33/486 (which is slower then yours) Win-OS2 at 640x480x16 runs 
>   faster then my old 1meg A500 running a 4 color low-res WB.  Even when I

Whoa!  Imagine that!  A 486 at 33MHz is faster than a 68000 at 7MHz!  Who
would ever guess?  Maybe that explains why my A4000/040 running Workbench
3.0 at 704x468x256 is faster than a 286-8 running Windows in 640x350x16...

>   up the driver to 256 colors its still fast.  I am using the outdated 
>   Diamond Speedstar Plus card also.  For the same money today, you can get
>   a Diamond Speedstar 24X which provides much faster Windows support, along
>   with true color. 

And for the same money as the outdated A500, you can get an A1200 which 
provides simalar capabilities to Amiga owners...

>							Greg Greene
>                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:39:33 GMT

>seven years should be more than enough time for a system to have a highly 
>polished multitasking OS. Especially when the Amiga multitasking  was very 
>highly polished by the time it was two years old or so. if we're going to 
>talk about the shortcomings of a platform, let's deal with all aspects of it.

And seven years is also plenty for the Amiga to get VM.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtaylor@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Douglas Taylor)
Subject: Re: 1200/4000 pricing
Summary: Mine Shaft?  Not Quite... 
Keywords: Eurocentrism, Americentrism Epiloon
 
 I see a lot of people complaining about how CBM's Power Up deal only applies
	in the United States of America, but there is one REALLY good reason 
	for this - CBM Marketing probably thinks that the machines are goona
	sell like hot cakes in Europe anyway, and sales will otherwise be more
	sluggish in the States; hence, they offer a price incentive to stimulate
	consumer interest in their product...
Organization: Florida State University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 17:38:30 GMT

 If you really have a gripe, hire an attorney - this is technically price dis-
	crimination (CBM doesn't make them cheaper or save resources by selling
	to previous owners), and hence CBM-US (at least) is able to be held 
	liable to a number of US Trade laws...
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Supermarket lines (was: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...)
Date: 12 Jan 1993 02:49:10 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan11.120604.15250@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au> davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
>The real question is, how would -MB- behave?

Oh, it's simple.  He woud tell them C= is dead, and within seconds,
the person is 98% likely to hang his/herself, in which case he simply
places his things upon the register and continues...

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:41:01 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan5.212604.672@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>If that's true, more power to them.  However, and I'm not pretending to be
>an expert on this, isn't there a screen management API that isn't really
>applicable to non-C= graphics hardware?

No.  :)

Screens on the Amiga are a function of the OS.  Screens can be
identified as being draggable or non-draggable, but they can always be
flipped (which would be the case under, let's say, a VGA card).

2.0's display database already allows for this for A2024 monitors,
whose screens cannot be dragged.

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jejones@microware.com (James Jones)
Subject: February *Computer Shopper*
Organization: Microware Systems Corp., Des Moines, Iowa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:33:30 GMT

Folks here will, I expect, derive great pleasure from reading
Arlan Levitan's column in the February 1993 *Computer Shopper*.
Last place I would have expected to see the following:

"Recipe for amazing the PC natives: [enumeration of PClone
hardware]...and you too can wow the rubes with postage-stamp-
sized videos running at 15 frames per second.  Leave it to the
boorish spoilsports in the crowd to point out that their plain-
vanilla Commodore Amiga can do a better job with full-motion video
playback straight out of the box...."

	James Jones
	(unassociated with *Computer Shopper* save that I subscribe--
	 guess there's still enough hardware therein that doesn't
	 have to go into a PClone that I still read it)

(Opinions herein are solely those of the author, and not necessarily
those of any organization.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jcook@cryo.rain.com (James Cook)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Date: 6 Jan 93 04:46:55 GMT
Organization: Cryogenic Software - Portland, OR USA
X-NewsSoftware: BBX-UMB 0.27a beta (Nov 30 1992)


In <jm39s70.06sq@sycom.mi.org>, jm39s70@sycom.mi.org (Jim Mallory) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >I have always wondered where all those 68k-chips go as Apple and
> >Commodore and all those laser printers can't be the only ones using
> >68k as 68k-series sells a lot more than those combined. Anyone have
> >any idea (excluding MB)?
> >
> 
> Well Wellfleet Routers use 68020's and 030's in their Communications Engine.  
> And they use 68040's in their Routing Engines.
> 
A great number of industrial control systems (programmable logic
controllers, etc.) also use the Motorola 680x0 series...
     
     Jim

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
    _  James Cook, PE - Electrical and Control Systems Engineer 
 _ //                    jcook@cryo.rain.com                     
 \X/      My views are not the views of Cryogenic Software.    
Amiga!               How can our views be the same?
                They're clear on the other side of town...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 1200/4000 pricing
Date: Tue,  5 Jan 93 17:35:24 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

>      Whether its easy to do or not, you still have to convince the software
>   developers that there is a viable Amiga market out there.  If you call
>   a lot of these software companies asking about Amiga versions they all seem
>   to say the same thing.  They are cutting back or dropping Amiga support
>   because of lack of sales.

Some companies are dropping the Amiga not because of a lack of sales (its
about the same as the Mac in terms of games), but because they're all
getting hammered in the MS-DOS market.

Revenue and unit sales are down across the board at game companies, and
its causing them to reconsider anything that's not "mainstream". Companies
like Sierra are strapped for cash with their "games network". The truth
is, despite the MS-DOS juggernaut, the market is becoming as fragmented
in 1993 as it was back in 1983. The market peaked for all platforms
in 1990, and there's no recovery in sight.

Companies like EA and Sierra are hoping the new "family consoles" like
CD-I and VIS (or whatever) will be the magic bullet for more software
sales and little piracy, so they're directing development dollars away
from what they consider a small market and into what they hope
will be "The Next Big Thing".

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 8 Jan 93 01:10:58 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras) writes:

>:   If it's sections of a program you're after then an overlay manager sounds
>: like a better bet since the application's author(s) would know best how to
>: construct the overlay map for a minimal ram image during run time.

>I disagree.  I think the operating system is much better at determining
>which segments in which program have been used the least, and therefore
>is better than overlays.  Your point might work for small programs, but
>for programs megabytes in size, a VM demand paging system would be better
>than determining the working set than a programmer.

  I still stand by my assertion that an overlayed program is a better win,
the applications authors (no matter how large it is) have much more knowledge
about the construction of the program than the OS ever could.

  Think about it, if you're using overlays smartly you're going to group 
common sections of code into each overlay segment, it's definately going
to be less of a burden on a VM manager as well since it's going to be dealing
with a net smaller code segment at any given time.

  -jack-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:19:31 GMT

In article <C0rJsv.514@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:


WARNING: WIMPS STOP NOW!  THIS POST WILL JUST PISS ALL YOU WHINY-BUTT
LOVE-THY-NEIGHBOR TYPES OFF...


>>>So if I want a 68060 based computer, I can buy a A4000 for $2500.00,
>>>throw out the 68040, and put in the 68060...good plan!
>>
>>Christ, do you know what you're talking about?  The 4000 doesn't have
>>a CPU on the motherboard.  When the '060 comes out Commodore will
>>simply offer an A4000/060, hardly any engineering involved, all
>>the'd have to do is design a new CPU board.
>
>If this is so easy, why did it take them so long to put an 040 in a
>stock Amiga?

How do you that it took them so long?  Has it ever occured to your 
weak little Clone-warped brain stem that not everything that is 
developed gets released?

And why the fuck do you care?  Use your damn Pentium wannabe and be
happy with it.

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate who really wonders about these folks...
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: Ace@auilcs0.UUCP (James Knowlton)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Arexx not useful? Was: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:37:50 PST
Organization: Alternate Reality Video Graphics

In article <C0GBL5.Gor@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:

->    ARexx is no micacle scripting language.  It only allows you to slightly
-> integrate the abilities of two applications.  But if no application has a
-> certain feature, then ARexx is useless to give you that feature.  For example,
-> I would like to have an Amiga word processor with lots of structured fonts
-> and which can import IFF DR2D or EPSF structured clip-art.  But even
-> collectively, none of the Amiga word processors supply these features.

Thats not what Arexx is for.  That like saying 'well gee my supramodem won't
make me coffee in the morning, what a useless thing'.

->   BTW, ARexx also not very useful if you are on a tight budget and can only
-> afford a small number of productivity programs.  For example, to be able
-> to link ProWrite and Final Copy II together with ARexx, you have to purchase
-> ProWrite and Final Copy II, unless you are a pirate.  And this gets very
-> expensive.  I purchased Mac WordPerfect for $150, which includes a drawing
-> program. To get the equivelent base functionality from Amiga software, I
-> would have to spend about $400 on Amiga word processors and a drawing program,
-> and it would still be lacking in features over Mac Word Perfect.

Tight budget?  Personally i use a simple $50 program called Cygnus Ed, with
lots of Arexx and a couple PD programs.  Thats one App.  Do you know what i do
with my single app and arexx script?  Well let's see.

1. Load Ced.
   Gee, thats a start.

2. Change environments.
   I want a different set of colors, and screen size.

3. Open a new ced edit view.
   I don't want any text in the first Ced window to be hidden behind the shell
   window that i plan to open.

4. Scroll the view to near the bottom of the screen.
   I'm going to have the shell open at the bottom the screen so i need to move
   the new view to the proper place.

5. Set the Ced screen to shanghai windows.
   I need the shell to go on the Ced screen.

6. Open a new shell window with certain parameters on the Ced screen.
   I like a shell on the same screen.  Great for programming.

7. Turn off the windows shanghai.
   I don't want my other windows being shanghai'd away.

8. Tell Ced to open a new file requestor.
   So I don't have to it manually.


So...  Now tell me how non-useful Arexx is without spending $500 on apps?
And...  Show me how i can do that without Arexx.
Also...  If that's too obscure an example for you just ask.  I have more.

        __
       ///
  __  /// James Knowlton - President & CEO - Alternate Reality Video Graphics
  \\\/// Usenet: uunet!csusac.ecs.csus.edu!citrus!amilink!auilcs0!Ace
   \XX/ Internet: amilink!auilcs0!Ace@citrus.sac.ca.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: d91ds@efd.lth.se (David Sundqvist)
Subject: Re:  Comdex/Quicktime released for the PC
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:25:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.132955.18409@pcnntp.apple.com> Dale_Adams@gateway.qm.apple.com (Dale Adams) writes:
>A number of Mac dealers have some overstock of the old Classic they're 
>trying to sell.  Apple no longer manufactures the Classic (and hasn't for 
>a number of months).  As I stated before, all current Macintosh computers
>have at least a 16 MHz '030.  By the way, does that A600 you're price-
>comparing have a hard disk (how big?) and a monitor?  (And how much RAM 
>does it have?)  I've seen 4 MB Classics with 40 MB hard disks advertised 
>for well under $800.
Yes, you are probably right, it DID look like they were trying to sell the
the ones they had in stock. The 600 comes without HD and monitor, but 
has more colors and better sound than the classic.
But its quite silly to compare systems that are going out of production. I
was just stating that as far as I knew the classic was still selling here.

>- Dale Adams

-David
From: Ace@auilcs0.UUCP (James Knowlton)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:17:35 PST
Organization: Alternate Reality Video Graphics

In article <C0GACp.FJq@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:

-> >Gee, if you say so.  Personally - i like a functional computer better than a
-> >screenful of niceties.
->
->    Niceties give you functionality.  For instance, the Amiga lacks a clipboard
-> with all of the 'niceties' of the Mac clipboard.  So you cannot cut and paste
-> structured graphics or fonts on an Amiga with all of the ease and
-> functionality that you can on a Mac.  This is entirely a 'surface' issue on
-> both systems, and it interferes with functionality on the Amiga.

True.  So let's change the subject.

Does the mac multi-task, let's say, anywhere near as well as the Amiga?

Ahh.  Well i consider Multi-Tasking one of THE features of the *Amiga*.

A computer that doesn't multi-task is a toy.

.Chalk up an opinion. .And flush the mac down the toilet.

Disclaimer:  It's my opinion, if you think a mac is useful so be it. I don't.
             Especially not for general computing.  If i couldn't multi-task
             I would be around %10 as efficient as i am now.

--
        __
       ///
  __  /// James Knowlton - President & CEO - Alternate Reality Video Graphics
  \\\/// Usenet: uunet!csusac.ecs.csus.edu!citrus!amilink!auilcs0!Ace
   \XX/ Internet: amilink!auilcs0!Ace@citrus.sac.ca.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy