HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha)
Subject: Re: Political Prostitutes or Democractic Activitists  ? 
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:40:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.061329.10597@marlin.jcu.edu.au> phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng) writes:
>After the arguments on CMFN have been carried out for two years and
>there are many reasons which are anti-CMFN bill, but few of reasons
>supportting CMFN, if there are some d-fighters who still push for the
>CMFN bill, do you think that they are democratic activities or political
>prostitutes ?
>
>J Su
>
	Let me ask you a question. Imagine someone in your family, maybe
your father or mother, goes into business in China. After some initial
success this relative finds himself in competition with some government
official, and is winning the competition. The government official, in 
fear of going out of business, arrests your relative and puts him in
jail for 10 years on some trumped up charges. For example, your relative
is accused of being a "counterrevolutionary". 

	Now, in this situation, would you support CMFN? Or rather, wouldn't
you support *anything* that might help eliminate such injustices?


	(Yes, I'm an American, and yes, America has injustices, too. That's
not the point.)

Mark
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:30741 talk.politics.china:2777
From: lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Zhou En-lai and his characters
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:59:10 GMT
Organization: Boston University

In article <gaojeng.722080219@durras> gaojeng@durras.anu.edu.au (J. Gao) writes:
>"The corruption, incompetence and ineptitude of politicians is often a
>legitimate cause of deep, firm and entirely justified moral judgements and
>forebodings... Politicians can be clowns as well as crooks or both at once.
>Some of them may even arise to the level of statesmanship and then we
>praise, admire and forgive them."
>
>-D. McCallum, in "The Pieces of Politics", Macmillan.
> 

A little surprised, but glad to see such evaluation from a young revolutionary
to a veteran revolutionary.

A lesson to all from the tragedy of Zhou may be an old saying:

Sang Zei Chuan Young Yi Xia Zei Chuan Nan (easy to get on board a gangster's boat,
                                            but difficult to get off)

The reason, as CCP GaoGan Mr. Yuan Geng told HK reporters,

Ren Zai Jiang Hu, Sheng Bu you Ji (after getting on board, none is controlled
                                              by him/herself)

By chance, according to Madam Jiang Song MeiLin, Deng YinChao told her almost
exactly the same in ChongQin.
-- 
The SOS China Education Fund is a non-political, non-profit and independent
organization to raise money promoting the education in rural China. All donations
are tax-deductable. Make checks or money orders payable to: "SOS China Education
Fund"; c/o Jie KANG, 2610 E. 5th Pl, Apt. 1, Tulsa, OK74104, USA.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: qkang@pico.cs.umn.edu (Eric Q. Kang)
Subject: verification letter from Int'l Office
Summary: where to get verification letter from school for EVD?
Keywords: verification, EVD status
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:31:58 GMT

Hi, fellows:
   This is a post for a friend of mine does not have an email account.
Could someone please help him? Thanks a lot.
--------------
   Dear netter:
   I changed from F-1 to EVD sometime ago. Now I want to invite my Mother 
   to come here. So as many of you did, I went to the Office of Int'l 
   Education(OIE) and ask them for a verification letter. However, 
   I was told that they does not issue verification letter for those
   on EVD(Extended Volunteer Departure, given by Bush), but they 
   suggest me to go the Student Relations Office at U and get a 
   computerised copy of verification letter. I did as they said and
   got a copy.
   Now my question for you is: 
     1) Does anyone on EVD has the same experience? If yes, Does the
        verification letter NOT from OIE(or the like) work fine?
   Sincerely
    Yun Yen
  
   P.S. since I do not have a computer account, please reply to this
   account:
         qkang@cs.umn.edu
   which is my friend's account. Thank you very much.
----------------
----------------
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:30900 soc.culture.taiwan:15486 soc.culture.hongkong:14689
From: ylchang@mtu.edu (CHANG)
Subject: test
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:52:01 GMT

this is a test
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:30944 soc.culture.hongkong:14723
From: liren@leland.Stanford.EDU (Liren Chen)
Subject: China Discover Vacations -- $899 -- All-inclusive
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 18:31:32 GMT

CHINA DISCOVER VACATIONS -- 7 DAYS

ALL-INCLUSIVE VOCATION PACKAGE:

$899 or more from San Francisco


Visa service available 

For more information and reservation, send mail to       
liren@leland.stanford.edu
From: kzhang@cisco.com (Kui Zhang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: dating a guy from China
Date: 23 Nov 1992 21:17:39 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Incorporated
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: regal.cisco.com

Someone wrote:
|> Hi, there:
|> I am a student from Taiwan and I was dating a guy from China before.
|> It seemed he liked me but he was afraid of falling in love with me.
|> I was lost.
|> would anyone give me a hint or any suggestions?
|> Thanks!

There's no catagorical difference between mainland Chinese and Chinese else where.
First, all can speak (or read/write) the same language.
Second, all have black hair/eye.
Third, all are human beings.

You got to do the analysis on individual bases.
After all you know more about him because you have dated him.


.kui
From: ST403071@brownvm.brown.edu (H.Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: a piece of "dui4 ou3"
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:20:38 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In article <1e8pl7INN9dq@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, ST403071@brownvm.brown.edu (H.
Chen) said:
>Posted on 16 Nov 1992 at 13:34:59 by H. Chen
>
>Re: a piece of "dui4 ou3"
>
>From: ST403071@brownvm.brown.edu (H. Chen)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:34:59 EST
>Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
>Message-ID: <1e8pl7INN9dq@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
>References: <009638E9.7955CD00@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>
>
>In article <009638E9.7955CD00@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>,
>uphhswh@Msu.oscs.montana.edu said:
>>
>>There was an exam problem in the entrance exam of Beida in 1940's which asks
>>for the "dui4 ou3" of "sun1 xing2 zhe3". The standard answer is "zhu3 chong1
>>zhi1". But another answer is the more likely one of a typical Beida's
student:
>>"hu2 shi4 zhi1".
>
>I think this happened in Hsing Hua(Qing Hua) U.
                          ^^^^^ ^^^
                          Tsing Hua, rather
From: gaojeng@durras.anu.edu.au (J. Gao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Zhou En-lai and his characters
Date: 18 Nov 92 09:50:19 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.22.8

"The corruption, incompetence and ineptitude of politicians is often a
legitimate cause of deep, firm and entirely justified moral judgements and
forebodings... Politicians can be clowns as well as crooks or both at once.
Some of them may even arise to the level of statesmanship and then we
praise, admire and forgive them."

-D. McCallum, in "The Pieces of Politics", Macmillan.
 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:30546 talk.politics.china:2721 soc.culture.taiwan:15381
From: txt15@po.CWRU.Edu (Tao Tao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: NEWS: China overseas policy change
Date: 16 Nov 1992 14:42:56 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


What the community college diploma will earn you?  Not much, I think.

-- 
p
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:30943 soc.culture.hongkong:14722
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng)
Subject: Re: CFMN?
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 02:41:11 GMT

In article <BxuAFp.GEp@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.232922.5013@tamsun.tamu.edu> x0y3510@tamuts.tamu.edu (Xuejun Yang) writes:
>
>>You know China is poor, but the majority of the people have
>>benefited greatly from open door policy. CMFN only hurts
>>ordinary people. Your life is comfortable now, and you have
>>become semi-american, so you can care less about the people
>>in China. Is this moral?
>
>CMFN will directly hurt decendents of CCP high officials.
>Human right abuse directly hurt ordinary Chinese people.
>As a person from ordinary Chinese, I think human right is more
>important than MFN. You are entitled to hold your view.
>I believe I am moral.
>
As I can not determine that you have been hurt or not, you can not determine
directly that ordinary Chinese people in China have been hurtting by CMFN or
not.  Thus, I make a suggestion here that if there are someones to
formally push the CMFN bill, we use whatever way, which is convenient
(newspapers, letters to university students in China), to tell the names
and behavours of those persons to people in China and suggest the people,
who are interested in, to make a judgement on that whether those CMFN
promoters are political prostitutes or democratic fighters.   The
answers are suggested to be sent to the USA embassy or any newsgroups
they want.  Thus, if they are considered to be democratic fighters, they
will be well known in China.  But if they are considered to be political
prostitutes, they will be kicked away both in China and USA.




J Su
 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: jfl@omaha.eel.ufl.edu (Yu-Fung Liu)
Subject: Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous?
Reply-To: edo@ugrad.ee.ufl.edu
Organization: UF EE Department (Graduate Student)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:28:28 GMT

In article <~~{5K~~}.92Nov13163110@owl.bunny.rhic.bnl.gov>, ~~{5K~~}@bunny.rhic.bnl.gov (~~{5K6,F=~~}) writes:
|> I wish people won't inhale whatever Bill smokes, it's not good for your
|> health though it might land you a job as the VP like Al. ;-). 

What are you trying to say? Please clear your smokes and so that I
can understand you. And what is "Bill smokes" and why you think
it is smoke?  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: guohsu@mercury.cs.uregina.ca (Allen Guo-Ching Hsu)
Subject: Re: [dating] Re: dating a guy from China [by a non-Mainland Chinese]
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:04:02 GMT
Organization: University of Regina, SK, Canada

In article <1992Nov23.021135.2714@leland.Stanford.EDU> chungdan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Zhong Qi Iao (Daniel)) writes:
>
>     Good luck to the original poster of the article, which I am responding.
>
>     It is a good sign that people from various parts of China, precisely
>speaking different *political* parts of China, that is the Chinese Mainland
>("New York Times" uses the term "Chinese Mainland" instead of "Mainland
>Chinese"), Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao.  There does not exist too much
>cultural differences between us now, or perhaps with the bond of
>the United Status of America, in which we live, and with our "national
>dialect" of the language, and of culture dating (pun) from now back
>to the times before our country was split (sob).

   What is your point here ?

>
>     However, Chinese are so few here.  Thus the original poster
>does not even have a close friend to ask, and is then posting it on
>the net.  Of course, there are probably many same-boaters -- but
>unfortunately, net readers are mostly computer science students, or
>people working in company companies, which is not a good mix of people.
>But when same-boaters *do* exist, they have gone through the process,

    Who told you all about these ? Again, what are you trying to tell ?

G.C. Hsu
From: PXW10@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: A biker ``flies'' over the Great Wall?
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:15:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92321.111516PXW10
Organization: Penn State University

A Taiwanese stunt man planned to ride a bike ``flying'' over the Great Wall
on the 14th of this month. Anyone out there knows the result?

Thanks for any answer,

Peter
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: guohsu@mercury.cs.uregina.ca (Allen Guo-Ching Hsu)
Subject: Re: What the HK governor is doing? Why?
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 03:42:18 GMT
Organization: University of Regina, SK, Canada

In article <1ejgu8INNlvu@crcnis1.unl.edu> stevew@helios.unl.edu (Steve Wu) writes:
>
>  About the airport issue, althought British government wants to take
>advantage over it, the fact is, it also benifits HK. After the 1997,
>God knows where those $10-billion (by the way, HK reserve is about
>$10 billion only) reserve will go, I double if Chinese government
>would leave this money to HK.
>
>  As a HK citizen, I would rather have something like an airport
>which is necessary in fact that actully belong to HK then have $10
>billion which may be taken away by the Chinese Government. I guess the
>Chinese government is the one which cannot be trusted, at least not
>now. 
>
>  The biggest possible trouble is the taking over of the Chinese
>Government, I can't see anything worst than that.
>
>  steve

  Are you telling the rest of world you enjoy being ruled by the British ?
  I wish you do have a backbone. You are telling me you prefer the British
  collect the HK savings rather then your fellow Chinese. The British have been
  sucking your/our blood in HK for more than 150 years. I am glad you haven't
  changed your family name yet.

  You remind me of a story happened at HK airport not too many years ago, some
  China Airlines(Hua-Hang) flight was delayed, the passangers had to stay
  over night in HK in order to leave HK next day, what happened was the
  airport/HK officials made accomodation arrangements for the
  non-Taiwanese/Chinese, left the Taiwanese/Chinese in the airport alone.  
   
  Keep your family name, wherever you go. Please. The Chinese Government
  might do nothing better than have my backbone recovered. I love my country
  more than myself.

  G.C. Hsu
From: ma@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Somebody tell me why this is wrong
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:43:06 MDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Utah State University

In article <By6M5p.IEF@cs.psu.edu>, echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng) writes:
> In article <1992Nov23.155635.10794@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>>	It seems to me that it is extremely hypocritical to be both for
>>unconditional MFN and for (and protected by) the Student Protection Act.
> 
> 	It is.  I am for UMFN and against the Protection Act (as if I 
> were not infamous enough...).
> 
> 
> 
>     Eddie

I think MFN and the Protection Act are two totally unrelated issues. MFN has
nothing to do with the people (Chinese or not) in U.S., but may affect very
much the life of the people INSIDE China. Similarly, the Protection Act has
nothing to do with the people in China, but it may either protect some people
or at least provide an easy way to stay in U.S. So there is nothing wrong to
support both UMFN and the Protection Act.
I myself support both UMFN and the Protection Act. Although I don't need the 
protection, it is no a bad idea to allow those who want to stay here to have
an easy life. The Act is good to those in U.S.  I also believe MFN is good
for people inside China and it is unfair to put conditions by one side in
such a trade issue. Therefore supporting both UMFN and PA is a good choice
because it makes everybody happy. 
Ma
From: weimin@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Weimin Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: IBM's Hiring Policy
Date: 15 Nov 92 15:55:52 GMT
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore

>IBM does hire foreigners, but I have seen the ads from IBM that say it 
>only hire people from Taiwan, S.Korean, Sigapore (sp?), etc. People from
>mainland are not included. I wonder if this is the IBM's policy, or some
>specific departments'.

I don't know enough about IBM per se, but quite a few U.S. companies
don't hire people from Mainland China who don't have a green card.
The reason is NOT because they (the companies) can get enough good
people, NOT because they have to apply for PR for you; IT'S because
you're from Mainland China, which is on a list of "communist" countries.
If these companies want to hire you, they'll have to apply for some
kind of export license, which itself is a much bigger pain in the you-
know-what than applying for PRs.  So if you're from India or Taiwan,
for example, you don't need to worry about this.

The people in a comany who decide whom to hire are usually the technical
managers; they may not know this issue very well.  If you suspect the
company you'll be interviewing with belongs to this group of companies,
ask about this particularly.  It may save you a lot of trouble and
disappointment.

Those of you liberal (:-) Americans may think this is bizzare, but it's
true.  I should know, because I (unsuccessfully) went through this,
twice.

Good luck to you all,
Weimin
From: ZHANGL@bcvms.bc.edu (Ling)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Visa Number for December 1992?
Date: 16 Nov 1992 21:58:19 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: zhangl@bcvms.bc.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Hi,
	Has anyone seen the Visa Bulletin for December 1992?  If yes, could
you please post it here?  

	NO email to this account please, as I am only using a friend's 
account to post this message.

	Many thanks in advance.

Canton, Mass.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,alt.chinese.text
From: joe@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang)
Subject: Re: Chinese character simplification, is it now necessary?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:45:01 GMT

In article <PWU.92Nov20024909@blackjack.ai.mit.edu> pwu@ai.mit.edu (Peng Wu) writes:
>As to the intellectual difference between T/HK and the mainland due to
>character set, I do not think I am looking at a scientific comparison here.  A
>controlled experiment is in order.  But I think it is indisputable that
>learning simplified chars takes less time than learning complex chars.

Actually, I'd like to see some controlled study on this, because it's
not clear to me that this is the case.  For example, in FanTiZi, the
radical for speech "yan" looks exactly like the word "yan."  So you
only need to remember one thing.  With JianTiZi, you need to remember
two things because the parts are different.

>An important factor not mentioned is budget in terms of time and money.  With
>simplified characters, people can shorten their learning program to reach the
>same learning level, which translates into big savings for a huge population.

Again, it's not clear that's the case.  As far as I'm aware of, there
have been no studies comparing the time it takes to learn FanTiZi over
JianTiZi. 

>On the other hand, according to some study I have heard, the children using
>sound-based writing systems start learning composing much early than the
>children using pictorial writing systems.  

Could you post a reference to that study?  It goes against my personal
experience.  In high school, I took Latin and German, but it wasn't
until I entered college that I started to learn to write in Chinese
(even though I had spoken it at home since age five).  The characters
didn't make Chinese much harder.

>I don't think
>the benefit from using pictorial chars is worth the few more years need to
>learn them.

It's clear from Hong Kong and Taiwan, that pictorial characters are
not a barrier to a high literacy rate.  Even the Mainland has a much
higher literacy rate than India which uses phonetic systems (75%
versus 40%).  If one wants to increase literacy, I think that it's
better to direct one's efforts at building more schools than in changing
the character system.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re: What do we Chinese celebrate? (Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous?)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:04:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.125217.15915@ms.uky.edu> gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li) writes:
>
>Not many people work 20 hours a day, and are willing to send their children
>to their grandparents. But, if they have this kind of problem, that might be
>that this is the only way they can do the best for their children. The contempt
>I sensed was that "you plain people have no way to get a better life", and you
>have the very reason to shame on them every day.
>You know what they got when they ask for apology from Japan.

There are many ways to handle life. I think you are too pessimistic.
In fact, there are many choices of life. You may think you are working
the best for your children. But to be honest, you might be working
for the best of yourself. You may say that it is consistent. But not really.

Don't put your sentence on me. I couldn't have thought that way.
Your brain is very artistic indeed :-). It is very hard for me to follow
your logic.

>This thought is too good for me to handle, I am just working for living and
>I have no problem with those who label me as working for the country, this
>makes me feel like a presedent. Of cause, I work for money.

I never labeled you working for the country. I also work for money :-).
But may be a little more than money. The comments I made was
to a guy (I forgot his name) who worked for People's Daily :-).
Even for that I was not intended to say, but he said he worked
20 hours a day and had to send his children to grandma. I felt
he was unfair to his kids.

>If this is good, it should be kept as secret. I don't want to talk
>about it either.

I remember I once argued this with Eddie Cheng. Later I realize that
to some extent he was right. The Asian hardworking mentality is
good only to some limit. Ever heard the Japanese is trying to lower
their product quality to make American feel better? :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Relationship between WIFE and MOTHER-IN-LAW ...
From: ZXIONG@arizvm1.ccit.arizona.edu (Zhongguo Xiong)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 13:03:43 MST
Distribution: soc.culture.china, soc.culture.taiwan, soc.culture.hongkong,local
Organization: University of Arizona

I have not noticed any discussion on this topic here. Would any one like
to comment on the relationship between your wife and your mother?
 
I am married and have two children. My mom loves to come to visit us and
see her grandsons. Every time I brough up possible visit of my mother, my wife
and I had a big argument, or even worse, fight (not a physical one). I have a
hard time to understand why women and their mother-in-law could not get along.
My situation is not unique. As far as I know, there are many examples of mother
-wife inlaw fight.
 
My wife's arguments are that we will no longer have privacy, that I'll love her
less when my mother is here, etc. Worse of all, she say she could not stand how
 much my mother loves and cares about me, which will make her jealous. BTW, my
mother visited us a while back, and as expected they did not get along well.
But if her mother comes to visit us, everything will be fine according to my
wife. She said there would not be any problem with privacy. She even threatened
to move out of the house if my mother comes to visits.
 
Enlighten me, my fellow netters. I just do not understand why it is so dif-
ficult for a woman and her mother-in-law to live together. Could not they to-
lerate each other a little and make every body happy? I do loves my parent a
lot and definitely do not want to refuse them if they wish to visit us or
even to live with us. At the sametime, I do not want to create division with
my wife.
 
Any suggestions, comments, or similar experiences?
 
 
Z. Xiong, very confused.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china