HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 09:35:41 GMT

In article <KYTAN.92Nov9111632@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com> kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.030057.28538@dragon.acadiau.ca> 891666t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Trish Turliuk) writes:

>>No. I disagree with that. If a person is constantly told that they
are not smart >>not thin enough..etc etc that person ultimately
develops (unless >>you can totally block it out, become untrusting, a
poor listener and generally >>more cold hearted) some sort of
insecurity.

>Hey, if someone is so uncertain of themselves, tough.  I've had my
parents tell >me all sorts of things, some uncomplimentary.  Didn't
bother me a bit.

How fortunate for you.  Unfortunately, there are African American
children who grow up thinking it's better to be white, Asian American
children who hate their looks and want to look white.  Not everyone
has your ability to tell the world to go to hell.

Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: differing wages (was Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?)
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:43:25 GMT

In article <lfqilrINN973@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums) writes:
)In article <1992Nov6.150355.9849@rtf.bt.co.uk> fletcher@rtf.bt.co.uk (Catherine Fletcher) writes:
)>1.  Doubt (by the word "if") one of the few statistics that it is safe to
)>    "believe" because the information it contains is straightforward
)>    and easy to obtain from accurate and diverse sources. 
)---
)	But the statistic is meaningless.  It ignores factors of
)seniority, job type and hours worked/week.  I might as well say something
)along the lines of 'did you know people under the age of 18 get an
)average of 20 cents to every dollar an adult gets' and then try to
)use this as some meaningful statistic on how minors are discriminated
)against.  Plugh!

It's not quite totally meaningless.  However, Farrel's statistic that
'single women earn 93% of what single men earn' (or whatever the current
figure is nowadays) is also 'safe to believe' because its information
is straightforwards and comes from the same sources that the $.59 statistic
comes from.

The interesting thing is reconciling the facts - both statistics are
true.

The more one digs into the issue (of wage compensation) the more complex it
gets (IMO) and the less the simplistic media 'knee-jerk' portrayls of what
this number 'means' come to mean.
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: ged1@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Gregory E. Daigle)
Subject: You guys all have problems **CLAUDIA**
Keywords: claudia
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies
Date: 11 Nov 92 06:06:55 GMT

All this talk of this model and that....Claudia is where it is at from every
standpoint.  Has morals, money and much more than a body....c'mon, check
out the faces of these women. Stop drooling anyway.


	Also, notice how many women have posted in USENET?  Maybe 5%.

	To me a woman is SEXIEST with clothes on anyway, forget the nudes.
From: garcia@husc10.harvard.edu (Javier Garcia-Torres)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: RE : Madchen Amick
Date: 11 Nov 92 02:59:17 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Nov8.231618.27200@tse.uucp> gkl@tse.uucp (Geoff Loker x656) writes:
>
>Does anyone have any additional information on this movie, such as when it
>was done, who made it, etc.?  Also, does anyone know where they got the story
>for the movie?

	I once read a story with the same title in Isaac Asimov's Devils,
an anthology of stories having to do with the Big Guy Downstairs.  It's
the first story in the book, and I would post the author's name if it weren't
for the fact that the book is about 900 miles away at the moment.

	Hope the title of the anthology helps.  It's one in a series of
anthologies edited( I think) by the late( sob) Dr. Asimov. 
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1761 soc.men:19181 soc.women:19446
From: cpm00@ras.amdahl.com (Craig P McLaughlin)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Keywords: A posse forms to the right...
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:34:00 GMT
Distribution: na

Victor P. Panlilio writes:
|> Unlike the people who are afflicted with the PC virus.  8^)
|>

Now, now, Victor, don't get petty on us.  PC-ness *has* done some good, you
know.
 
|> Then again, many people are reluctant to call advertising 'art.'
|> They would rather apply the term to the paint splatters of any of
|> several modern artists whose paintings command shocking prices.
|>

This has always baffled me.
 
|> >Wouldn't it be nice if people would open their minds
|> >            before opening their mouths?
|> 
|> Yeah, but some people, when they open their minds, only garbage
|> gets in, and stays there. The ones who don't have discrimination
|> and discernment and acuity in their vocabularies. The PC minds.
|> Those who brazenly accuse non-PC minds of being unable to carry
|> out complex thought, when they themselves reveal this fatal flaw!
|>

Victor, don't *bash* them.  It only lowers you to the level of those who 
rely on insult, rather than reason.  You've made some remarkable sense in 
your comments.  Don't stop now.


|> That makes CatWoman, -wat-, me, and now you, in the non-PC camp!
|> 
|> The line forms on the right (pun very much intended)....
|>

I'll stand somewhere here in the middle, but a little to the right.  Um, 
I think I'll call myself the "reasonably informed, and willing to listen to
reasonable, reality-based, debate" -camp.  Anyone care to join me?
 
--Craig

Craig McLaughlin  /  cpm00@ras.amdahl.com  /  Certified Generalization Hater
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: Fordham University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:04:00 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Distribution: usa
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov11.070434.14395@dragon.acadiau.ca>, 
891666t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Trish Turliuk) writes...
[intermediate posts deleted] 
>Do you *REALLY* equate this necessary survival list with my desire for a
>choice over what kind of images I am forced to see every day? I'll bet
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nobody ever put a gun to my head and said "Watch this or else!"  
Every television set I've ever seen has an "off" switch.  Read instead if
*all* channels have images which offend you.  As an adult, no one can force
you to watch.  You are also free to choose which books to read, or which 
video tapes to watch.  

>That which we are conditioned to believe is necessary prevents from seeing
>and feeling what is truly necessary. The conditioners are evil.

Such conditioners as you believe to be evil have a right to speak freely, as
do you.  There are so many diverse cultures and communities on this continent
that almost anyone can find someplace that suits her or him.   

> 
>trish
> 
>..'.'.''''.'.....'.'.'.''''.....'''..''"'..,',''''"......'.''.['".'`'`."']

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard J. Nissim  (nissim@mary.fordham.edu)   
Disclaimer:  "I speak only for myself."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1552 soc.women:18990 alt.feminism:3856 soc.men:18803
From: lynch@ils.nwu.edu (Richard Lynch)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:12:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: ils.1992Nov6.231200.21032
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences

In article <1992Nov6.030057.28538@dragon.acadiau.ca> 891666t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Trish Turliuk) writes:

 [a long diatribe on how awfully unrepresentative movies, tv, ads, etc are.]

{sarcasm on}
And, of course, it's so easy for all men to look like Tom Sellek (sp?).
{sarcasm off}

Not that you don't have a valid point, but I want to point out that it's not
clear that this is a *sexist* issue.  Lord knows I've been passed over for some
"hunk" enough times.  :-(
-- 
"TANSTAAFL"     lynch@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu
From: mjo@slee01.srl.ford.com (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: Article about models!
Date: 9 Nov 1992 21:24:39 GMT
Organization: Not an official spokesperson for Ford Motor Co.
Reply-To: "Mike O'Connor" <mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slee01.srl.ford.com

<laughs>  This article includes sites from the Detroit area that I
had to comment on:

:     At the Lakeside Mall in Sterling Heights, the first hopeful is 5 ft.2
:in.. "Do you think you're going to grow?" Jones asks tactfully. "Because if
:you do grow in the future, give us a call. But thank you for stopping by."

Sounds about right for someone in Sterling Heights.  Boring part of
the universe.  The girl probably showed up 'cause she had nothing
better to do.  Honest!  :)

:     For the afternoon open call, 150 girls have shown up at the Tel-Twelve
:Mall in Southfield. This is Big Hair Territory -- permed and teased to the

You'd better believe it!  At Tel-Twelve, you get the sorts of women
that put so much hairspray on that you're afraid they'll assault you
if they turn their head too fast.  Fortunately, there's an arcade with
Champion Edition SF II that I can retreat to.

:sky -- and Jones can't understand why almost every girl possesses a
:hairstyle found in no leading fashion magazine. She asks Angela Cyr.

<laughs>  Someone has to give the Detroit suburbs a break.  Around
here, people are just glad that they DON'T live in Detroit.  

:Speaking for all girlhood, Angela replies, "The guys really like it."

Speaking as one guy, I don't like it one bit.  :)

:     "Are you calling me a wuss!" shrieks Kristen Zang to Ivana Milicevik.
:They are sitting with Jones and scout Lisa Spindler at dinner at the center
:table of Les Auteurs in Royal Oak, a fashionable restaurant outside
:Detroit, playing the "wuss" game. They give each other high-fives. They

Damn!  I live in Royal Joke, right by Les Auteurs.  I missed 'em.
<snaps fingers>

:into a local fast-food restaurant, Ivana in a fashion show at ClubLand, a
:downtown Detroit bar. For this dinner they are wearing little black dresses

For the record, this isn't anywhere near as good as the original
Clubland in Chicago.  


						...Mike
--
 Michael J. O'Connor           |  Internet:  mjo@FMSRL7.SRL.FORD.COM
 Ford Motor Company, OPEO      |  UUCP:      ...!{backbone}!fmsrl7!mjo
 20000 Rotunda, Bldg. 1-3001   |  Phone:     +1 (313) 248-1260
 Dearborn, MI  48121           |  Fax:       +1 (313) 323-6277
From: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: nude in playboy - dumb answer
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:29:57 GMT
Reply-To: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation

In article <1992Nov11.003225.16464@neb>, jim@neb (Jim Hood) writes:
> >Which issue is that?
> 
> Since it was identified as THIS MONTHS playboy....
> If you check the Message-ID line
> -> Message-ID: <1992Nov10.105251.26701>
> It quite clearly states what month/year it is.

Considering PB usually puts out its issues a month in advance, your comment 
does not follow at all.  Particularly since I've seen the November issue, and 
don't recall the lady in question being in it.

Terry Carroll - tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com - 408/992-2152
The opinions presented above are not necessarily those of a sound mind.
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 04:02:02 GMT


Actually, you're right, I am female.
And thanks. :-)

Marty


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Seems like there ought to be a way we could look each other in the eye
To see we're all in this together, and put all thoughts of victory aside.
Seems like there ought to be a way we could turn this fear into trust;
No matter what you say, there has to be a way --
Every living thing is counting on us."      

Marty Hale-Evans                                 M   @   *   O   %   8   U
89 Mass. Ave., Ste. 199, Boston, MA 02115       \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/


Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:22:18 GMT

williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:

>In article  891666t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Trish Turliuk) writes:
>>The fact is we see *one-type* of women portrayed everywhere as the idealized
>>women and even this isn't a real type for she is subjected to hours of makeup
>>and airbrushing before she goes in front of the camera. The majority of women
>>don't see themselves reflected in society at all. How many models have you  
>>seen with crooked teeth?
>----
>	I had to take issue with this.  When was the last time you saw
>a car in a car add anywhere that was dented and/or scratched, paint
>bleached out, seats torn, tires flat or worn, windshield cracked, rag
>top torn, etc etc etc...  The fact is when advertisers are selling somethink,
>they want to use 'perfect' models.

What does this mean? Are they selling women on TV now?

al

-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: The Beauty Myth (was:Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?)
Followup-To: alt.feminism
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:37:40 GMT

In article <lg3carINNaeo@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov11.100954.601@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> y0000028@rzab0.rz.tu-bs.de (Kielhorn) writes:
>>>With women it is a little different, they come in different shapes and only 5
>>>percent look similar to those models. What happens to the other 95 percent, 
>>>are 
>---
>	One thing I missed here --  You mean to tell me that 5% of the women
>look like Elle?  Gee, I must live in an Elle impoverished area, since I
>haven't seen anyone who looks exactly like here.
>
>    Oh - you didn't mean 'exactly'?  What did you mean?  

The word  used was "similar", as in "look similar to those models".
I assumed that this was what was meant. Do I have an incorrect political
outlook?  :^)

Rini - we have another gross misrepresentation, can you handle this?
(It -is- your theme, right?)

>                                                          Looking like
>which model?  Elle is quite different in appearance to, say, Madonna --
>another female image.  Do you mean only 5% of the women have 2 breasts?
>What is this 5% figure?  I see alot of women, and alot of them fall into
>a category that I would see as attractive -- alot more than 5%.  Where
>did you get this 5% figure?

Incredible, simply incredible. All this supposition from 1.5 sentences.
 
>-wat-
>--
> --- "If women really earned fifty-nine cents to the dollar for the same
> work as men, what business could compete effectively by hiring men at
> any level?"    -- Dr. Warren Farrell


Rich

payner@netcom.com
From:  (Sneh Ctuh)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: eleniak.gif
Date: 9 Nov 92 02:27:58 GMT
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte


Outstanding pic.

You did it the right way.  Now lets see more.

Thanks.

Sneh
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: allorja@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Jason M. Allor)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 04:18:36 GMT

Come on people!!  You've been writing about this Elle MacPherson causes rape
things forever now.  Get a freaking life people!  Don't you have anything
better to do with your time???  At least change it to "Cindy Crawford causes
rape", or something.  I think a lot of us are really tired of this subject.
 Don't tell me to unsubscribe, becuase I like a lot of the things I read in
this newsgroup, and I don't want to unsubscribe.  But I would like us to move
on PLEASE!!!!!   I don't imagine what more you could possibly need to say 
about this subject that was not said in any of the previous 200 articles.
Thank you.
  



Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: sweenep@quig15.alleg.edu (Patrick Sweeney)
Subject: elle.gif
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 23:58:37 GMT

Please send ASAP - in desperate need of.
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:44:57 GMT

williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:

>In article <BxBCp7.BC8@encore.com> aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:
>>williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:
>>
>>>The fact is we see *one-type* of women portrayed everywhere as the idealized
>>>women and even this isn't a real type for she is subjected to hours of makeup
>>>and airbrushing before she goes in front of the camera. The majority of women
>>>don't see themselves reflected in society at all. How many models have you  
>>>seen with crooked teeth?
>>>----
>>	I had to take issue with this.  When was the last time you saw
>>a car in a car add anywhere that was dented and/or scratched, paint
>>bleached out, seats torn, tires flat or worn, windshield cracked, rag
>>top torn, etc etc etc...  The fact is when advertisers are selling somethink,
>>they want to use 'perfect' models.
>>
>What does this mean? Are they selling women on TV now?
>
>al
>----
*	Duh.  Women are used as 'model's on which to hang products that
*are sold.  Also, models are looked at for their own sake -- just as
*you can buy calendars of cars for their own sake.  Nothing is being sold
*except the vision of the car (or women) itself.

Exactly my point.. so what was it you were `taking issue with'.. seems to me
that the original statement was taking issue with the idea of `selling the
image' and deciding for us what `perfect' should look like.

al


-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
From: panlilio@acs.ucalgary.ca (Victor P. Panlilio)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Summary: Taking Political Correctness to the Extreme
Keywords: ideological fanaticism
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:27:06 GMT
Expires: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 05:00:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.supermodels
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <KYTAN.92Nov5103431@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com> kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan) writes:

>I disagree.  Whether the possession of calendar featuring a supermodel (or
>anything else) suggests that someone would like all females to be like that is
>not the point.  If any woman blames others for her insecurities, then it is
>totally HER problem.  I have met women like this who like to impose their
>values upon me and I resent it (as I suspect many men do.)  There are males

Hey, while we're at it, why don't we encourage the animal-rights
activists to have us boycotting National Geographic calendars
because the pictures might intrude on the dignity of the beasts
so callously objectified and portrayed in those exploitative and
sleazy photographs! I mean, we have to draw the line somewhere!

(chuckling with tongue-in-cheek here)

I happen to have the 1992 SI Swimsuit calendar on the wall in my
studio. The 1993 edition is tucked away, ready to take its place.
I also have a Sierra Club wilderness calendar nearby, prominently
on display. And I used to put up an Albert Einstein calendar...

Victor 8^)
(who only recently realized that women have BODIES)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: vpham@cs.ulowell.edu (Vinh)
Subject: Re: Do all supermodels smoke?
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:08:09 GMT

i think Paulina does.
From: stephen@lsil.com (Stephen Lee 8941)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: nude in playboy - dumb question
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:44:53 GMT
Reply-To: stephen@lsil.com
Organization: LSI Logic Microprocessor Group

In article 16464@neb, jim@neb (Jim Hood) writes:
>Sorry, I must be in a bad mood today.  Mabie I should be reading
>alt.flame, but...
>
>>dcarter@supra.East.Sun.COM (Dave Carter-Sun-Atlanta GA-Atlanta District MCC) writes:
>>: She is nude in this months PLAYBOY issue, can see much though.
>>: A few other models in there, can't remember who off hand
>>: ---
>>:
>>
>>Which issue is that?
>
>Since it was identified as THIS MONTHS playboy....
>If you check the Message-ID line
>-> Message-ID: <1992Nov10.105251.26701>
>It quite clearly states what month/year it is.
>

Good try, Jim! But before you flame someone again,
please note that the current issue of Playboy is the
DECEMBER issue (which Cindy nude). The date of the issue
is ALWAYS 1 month ahead of the current month.

Hope you learn something

---
---- Stephen Lee	Tel (408) 433-8941	Email:stephen@lsil.com
---- Cubicle 18, 2nd floor, Bld. 1525
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: zzekka@unislc.uucp (Zeke Zecca)
Subject: Re: Elle Wanted - Alive(or dead)
Reply-To: zzekka@unislc.UUCP (Zeke Zecca,B2C10,4827)
Organization: Unisys, Salt Lake City
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:10:56 GMT


. . . but still warm! heh heh heh
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: beh7214@venus.tamu.edu (HEAD, BRYAN EVERETT)
Subject: Paulina GIF
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords:  Teddy bear picture from Playboy
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:32:00 GMT

I've noticed quite a bit of reaction to the Paulina gif that was posted 
recently.  As has been stated, it is from Playboy.  Someone wrote in wanting
to know what issue it is from.  I have a roommate with a pretty extensive 
collection of Playboy from as far back as 1978.  So, if you really want to 
know which issue she's in, e-mail me and I'll send you the info.  I can also
give you prices and availability of back issues like the one with Paulina
from the Playboy catalogue, which I also have.   I would post the issue number, 
but first I'll have to dig out the mags and then sort through the over 100
mags to find it, and I don't want to do that until I know someone really wants
the info.  I can tell you that the Cindy issue was July of 1988.  E-mail me
if you want any other info.

Bryan

Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men