From: ptm57791@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Patrick T. Murzyn)
Subject: Re: Suicide (Was: Friends ... forever ...)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:42:43 GMT

A voice speaks up from the corner:

Well, you folks probably dont remember me, I posted- three times maybe?- 
toward the end of semester last spring, and am content to simply read the
conversation that takes place here.  I debated a while as to whether I was
qualified to comment on this topic or not, but I feel I am.  I, too, have
had to deal with a person who had contemplated suicide, and went through
with it.

I am deeply sorry for the loss of you friend.  However, I have to agree with
Gryphon here: life is more difficult in death.

[minor digression]  The suicidal person I mentioned above is my grandmother.
After my grandfather had a stroke, she was faced with watching all of the 
money she had accumulated over her 76 years blown in one big shot for the
medical expenses of my grandfather.  Further, she had to deal with watching
her husband in a debilitated condition.  This was too much, I guess, and she
made a very...thorough...suicide attempt.  She was found before she could
leave this life, however, and is now being cared for.  My biggest problem
with this is that she was going to leave those behind to deal with her
problems.  She was going to leave my father and his brothers, not to mention
my grandfather, to deal with that which she couldnt.  I am still not sure
I forgive her. 

Now, I guess that your friend's situation was different, in that he was not
leaving behind any problems for others to deal with that he couldnt.  But
he *did* leave behind the problem of letting those that cared for him deal
with their loss.  Now, to me, that is kind of selfish.  Based on your 
descriptions of him, he was a very kind individual, and I dont mean to sound
harsh in saying he was selfish.  In fact, I guess, you could dispute my
judging him.  Take it as you will.

One difference I have with what Gryphon said is that I dont believe that you
will have to pay for what you've done in this life later on.  Instead, I
take life as a challenge.  Faced with such a daunting set of circumstances
such as my grandmother's, or your friends, I would take a great deal of pride
in the fact that I have taken on the worst that life could dish to me and *I
am still standing*.  I think to commit suicide is to trivialize the life that
you've lived.  Like knocking over your king, or pointing to 'Quit' and clicking.

Well, I guess talking about that is a bit pointless now, isnt it?  Regardless
of how your friend looked at life, it cannot erase the fact that he is gone.
However, I maintain that he took the easy road.  I certainly hope that he is
happy wherever he is at.  I hope you've understood my point through all of
this.  I'm still not certain that it is coherently put together.  I feel
very strongly about this, though, and couldnt remain quiet.

I finish now with a toast:  In part to Arty, may he have found happiness and
satisfaction wherever he is, but mostly I toast you who have the courage to
face his death, and contine to put one foot in front of the other down the
road of life.


					- Patrick Murzyn
					ptm57791@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
					, 

-- 
Patrick Murzyn 					ptm57791@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
 "I'm the one who's got to die when it's time   University of Illinois
  for me to die, so let me live my life the     at Champaign-Urbana
  way I want to."   - Jimi Hendrix