HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thornley@milli.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:44:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.150945.1751@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>
>And next time, please read more carefully; I pretty clearly wrote this in 
>regard to the Tiger offense, as seen by "How did a guy with lower OBP *AND* 
>lower SLG contribute MORE to his team's offense?" Clearer now?
>
Depends on how you define "contribute", doesn't it?  How about the following
thought experiments:  Shoot Travis Fryman, or shoot Cecil Fielder.  See
the effects on Detroit's offense.  We can simulate the effects in several
ways.  I think you'll find that shooting Fryman has more of an effect than
shooting Fielder, and therefore I consider it a reasonable statement that
Fryman contributes more than Fielder to the Tiger's offense.

David Thornley
Who uses a very violent approach to determining value, sometimes.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar)
Subject: Re: More about Sanders/Alou/Karros
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-10949]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: News and Views from LSU
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:33:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.174918.2771@leland.Stanford.EDU>, claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes...
>In article <1992Sep14.153349.2908@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
> 
>>Alou is a platoon player. Sanders has done quite a bit of that himself.
> 
>Huh, Mike?  I believe I have shown that both of them have produced *more*
>despite *less* playing time.

	I don't think that is what Mike is getting at.  As a platoon player
it is very possible to have inflated stats due to only facing pitchers 
that you are better at hitting (see Paul Sorrento this year).

	I'm not sure Alou's stats are significantly effected this way.
Sanders' seem to be.  However, even with some decrease in value due to
facing all pitchers it seems that both Sanders and Alou are way ahead
of Karros.

Dave
__________
Dave Bonar
eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
__________
From: timl@zulu.mti.sgi.com (Tim Layman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: AL Cy Young update
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:31:40 GMT
Reply-To: timl@mti.sgi.com
Organization: Mips Technologies Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: zulu.mti.sgi.com

In article <1992Sep6.173808.5253@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward
[Ted] Fischer) writes:
|> 
...
|> 
|> If Clemens manages to take the lead in wins, he could be the first AL
|> pitcher in 40 years to win the pitching triple crown (wins, ERA, and Ks).
|> 
|> Cheers,
|> -Valentine
|> -- 
|> Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
|> Clemens four Cy Young!

	I've got a question. When was the last time a pitcher on a LAST PLACE team...

1) Won a Cy Young?
2) Won 20 games?
3) Won the "triple crown"?

	Certainly the first criteria will probablly be met. (The part about the Red Sox
finishing
in last place :^(  )

	Does anybody know any of this?

	Tim
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Ugliest man?
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:46:47 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Indiana University

After watching the Cinci/Houston game last night I wish to add a special
category to the ugliest man contest:

The Eric Davis Memorial Tobacco Slobber Award, 
and this year I nominate Jeff Bagwell, while asking the burning question
"How many bags of Red Man does he have in that cheek of his??"

And no, I'm not just saying this cause he double in an insurance run against
my favorite team.    :}:}

RStimets
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: Re: Baseball Czar Needed!!
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:20:55 GMT

In article 8111@ucsu.Colorado.EDU, wilbanks@spot.Colorado.EDU (Dylan the Wonder Pup!) writes:
>Now that the last non-puppet commissioner has been forced out, and a 
>puppet and mouthpiece of the owners is coming, I think it is time for 
>Congress to step in against the 

[Long digression]

>owners and complete the task they were going 
>to do back in 1920 - create a federally-appointed "baseball czar". 
>A czar who cares about tradition and could keep the owners from 
>being ridiculous idiots and trade franchise players for no-names. 
>A czar against wild-card playoffs. A czar who will be fair and impartial
>and have so much power ha can be fair and impartial.
>
>Since baseball is in violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act anyway,
>Congress could do it. 
>
>Let's save baseball!!!!!
>

Are we talking about the same Congress who can't seem to balance its budget,
who basically run for office only to run for office again in 2 to 6 years,
who are in part responsible for the economic mess we're in?

It's bad enough the owners are going to put their own guy in, even though
that's what's been happening since Judge Landis stepped down. However,
I shudder to think that Dan Rostenkowski, Newt Gingrich, and Fred "Gopher"
Grandy have the wisdom to run baseball properly. 

I'm up to my wits' end. Let baseball collapse and let America figure out
what to do in their spare time while MLB reorganizes itself. We may actually
figure out something meaningful to do than watch ESPN all evening.

******************************************************************************
--Stan Macasieb (stanm@comm.mot.com)              |  16 Major League Teams
--Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector           |     by 1996.
--Schaumburg, IL (just another suburb of Chicago) |  
--------------------------------------------------|
~~The opinion expressed in this post is not       |  "You got a problem
~~necessarily those of this corporation.          |   with that?" 
~~Copyright 1992, all rights reserved.            |   -- Roger Clemens
******************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Remaining Scheduled Games
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:17:10 GMT



Here are the number of games each team has against each other team
in the league, as of Labor Day.
To read the lists, a number in the nth row and mth column represents
the number of games team m has left to play at team n's ballpark.
For example, Cincinnati has 2 games left at Atlanta, while Atlanta
has 3 games left at Cinci.


    NL WEST

            	ATL	CIN	HOU	LA	SD	SF
Atlanta		0	2	3	2	4	3   	14
Cincinnati	3	0	2	3	3	3	14
Houston		3	2	0	3	3	3	14
Los Angeles	2	2	3	0	2	3	12
San Diego	3	3	2	3	0	2	13
San Francisco	2	3	2	3	2	0	12

  		13	12	12	14	14	14


    NL EAST

		CHI	MON	NY	PHI	PIT	StL
Chicago		0	3	2	2	3	3	13
Montreal	3	0	3	2	2	3	13
New York	2	3	0	4	3	2	14
Philadeplhia	2	2	3	0	3	4	14
Pittsburgh	3	2	3	3	0	2	13
St. Louis	3	3	2	3	2	0	13

		13	13	13	14	13	14	


    AMERICAN LEAGUE


	BAL BOS	CLE DET MIL NYY TOR   CAL CHI KCR MIN OAK SEA TEX
Balt	0   4   0   0   3   3   3     0   0   3   0   0   0   0       16
Boston  0   0   3   3   4   3   0     0   0   0   0   0   0   0       13
Cleve   4   0   0   0   0   3   0     0   3   0   0   0   0   0       10
Dtriot  2   4   3   0   0   0   0     0   0   0   0   0   0   2       11
Milwau  4   0   3   0   0   0   0     4   0   0   0   3   0   0       14
Yanks   0   0   0   4   0   0   3     0   3   3   0   0   0   0       13
Toront  0   2   4   3   0   0   0     0   0   0   0   0   0   3       12

Calif   0   0   0   0   0   0   0     0   0   4   4   0   0   3       11
ChiSox  0   0   3   3   0   0   0     3   0   0   0   4   0   0       13
KCity   0   0   0   0   0   3   3     0   0   0   3   0   4   0       13
Minn    0   0   0   0   0   0   0     3   4   3   0   0   3   0       13
Oaklnd  0   0   0   0   3   0   0     3   0   0   3   0   4   3       16 
Seatt   0   0   0   0   3   0   0     3   2   0   0   3   0   0       11
Texas   0   3   0   0   0   0   4     0   0   0   2   0   3   0       12

        10  13  16  13  13  13  13    16  12  13  12  10  14  11   


RStimets
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Players value
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:32:24 GMT
Organization: Boo!

In <1992Sep4.173755.13592@news.iastate.edu> sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm) writes:

>I'm interested in the opinions of the net regarding some players 
>who have not had the seasons that were expected of them.  I'm listing
>five players but feel free to add to the list.  How do the hometown 
>fans feel about them, how does management, and what would be needed 
>in trade for them, i.e. untouchable, you can have him, etc. 

>Chuck Finley - regarded as one of the better lefties in baseball, but 
>               having a horrendous year.

Really didn't have a great year last year, supposedly because of his
injury.  Now having a terrible year because he's busy recovering from
the surgery to repair his injury.  Or so they say.

I expect he'll be back as a decent pitcher, but that's all.

>Phil Plantier - picked as probable ROY before season started, now in minors.

If Phil had turned into a Rob Deer type, I might have decided that he
wasn't as good as I thought he was.  But his power outage makes me think
that something was wrong, physically or mentally, and that there's still
a good chance he'll fulfill his promise.

>Derek Bell - another pre-season ROY but can't seem to crack the line-up,
>             which is amazing when you think of the year Devon White has had

Well, Derek may have had a career season last year.  Part of the problem
is that he really hasn't had much of an opportunity.  But I don't think
he'll be a star, though i still think he'll amount to a solid ballplayer.

>Todd Zeile - see earlier net discussions

Geez.  I wouldn't hazar a guess on this one.

>Andy Benes - seems to be more of a victim of spotty run support than 
>             anything, but the world was expecting a break-through year.
>             I think he has the ability to be one of the best pitchers 
>             in baseball.  It's too bad the owners seem to only see the 
>             pitchers W-L column, which really doesn't mean much.

Well, yes, he hasn't had the greatest support.  But he also hasn't
pitched as well as I expected after his dominating second half of
'91.  Pitching is harder to predict than hitting, but I still think
Benes will put it all together eventually and be a very good, possibly
great, pitcher.

Greg 
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here) 
From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:53:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Times on Base: all-time records and Frank Thomas
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

In rec.sport.baseball, chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane) writes:

> Getting hit with a pitch intentionally is extremely stupid. The probability of getting injured and being
> out of the lineup for weeks or months (thus hurting your team), far outweighs the benefit of 
> reaching base a few more times.

Fine, then, we would expect the people who possess this "skill" to have short
careers, or play few games per year, in which case they wouldn't tend to do
well in stats like "total times reached base", anyhow.   No need to tack on an
additional penalty for choosing a lazy or stupid way to get on.

> Are you saying you think a team would perform
> better if the players were coached to be hit by pitches rather than avoid them ? 

Hmm.  Interesting experiment.  If anyone lets Don Baylor manage, perhaps we'll
get to find out.  You're probably right, but again, if it already comnes with
its own penalties, it would be unfair to penalize such players again by not
even counting the small benefit they give the team and counting only the hurt.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Cal Eldred, ROY candidate?!
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:15:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.225347.28929@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>
>   Fleming is 15-8 with about a 3.30 ERA (?) and Eldred is 7-1 with a 1.30
>   ERA. What if Fleming end up about 16-10 with a mid-3 ERA, while Eldred
>   is 10-2 with a mid-1 ERA? And what influence will it have if the Brewers
>   stay in the division race til the end with Eldred getting a couple big
>   wins?

Fleming was 10-2 at one point too, though not with such a good ERA.
Let's see how Eldred does the second time around the league.  (Though
after my unfavorable comparison of Eldred to Rhodes I probably already
look like an idiot on this one!  The only thing I have to say for
myself is that I traded Rhodes and kept Militello!)

I still think Eldred is playing over his head.  Nobody is that good
(except for Roger Clemens).

Cheers,
-Valentine


-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Clemens blowing a lead?
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:04:02 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

In rec.sport.baseball, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:

> June 21		Clemens at Burns
> ...
> July 29		Burns at Clemens
> ...
> Him again!

Interesting, one of my fonder baseball memories was a game a few years ago in
Oakland where Storm-Curt-Davis-Young started a game against the Rocket, was
roughed up good,n about the second inning, and Todd Burns came in and held the
'Sox down while the A's proceeded to peck away at Roger & Co.  This may have
been the same game where I saw Mike Gallego hit a home run.  It may also be the
game where I first met Tim Priddy in his right-behind-the-dugout season seat,
filling out of the several hundred write-in All-Star ballots for Gallego he did
that year.  Anyhow, yet another case of Clemens blowing a lead against Burns -
unless one or the other was gone by the time the lead changed.

OK, one my fonder memories, even if it isn't one of my clearest!:-)

> I challenge *any* pitcher to match this record.  Glavine, Maddux,
> Morris, Koufax, anybody!

Eck?  Probably about the same ratio, if you group innings pitched accordingly.
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
From: mspede@atlas.nafb.trw.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Eck and CY (was Re: Personal Attacks on the Net)
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:41:55 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <6311@transfer.stratus.com>, jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:
> In article <1261.2ab051b7@atlas.nafb.trw.com>  
> mspede@atlas.nafb.trw.com writes:
> 
>>  Their first proposition was that Eck must win either MVP
>>  or Cy Young (I had no big problem with that).
> 
> Why?  Eckersley deserves either award only slightly more than Fielder
> deserves MVP (in fact, I'd be less likely to give him MVP than
> Fielder).  Why?  First off, he has pitched 66 innings.  I can't

  Out of curiosity, what is the probablity that a team wins a game
  when trailing after 7 innings ?  or trailing after 8 inn ?

  Does this give some measure to the number of games Eck has been
  worth to the A's this season ?

  Mark Pede
  P.S. My cy young vote goes to Clemens also
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for Cs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 23:10:22 GMT

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Darren Daulton, Philadelphia	8.55	; my pick for MVP
Don Slaught, Pittsburgh		7.49
Mike LaValliere, Pittsburgh	5.13	; what a pair!
Joe Oliver, Cincinnati		4.68
Greg Olson, Atlanta		4.17
Tom Pagnozzi, St. Louis		4.08
Carlos Hernandez, Los Angeles	4.07
NL AVERAGE			4.05
Benito Santiago, San Diego	3.92
Kirt Manwaring, San Francisco	3.87
Joe Girardi, Chicago		3.76
Damon Berryhill, Atlanta	3.52
Gary Carter, Montreal		3.31
Eddie Taubensee, Houston	3.24
Mike Scioscia, Los Angeles	3.15
Todd Hundley, New York		2.95
Charlie O'Brien, New York	2.90	; what a pair! :-)
Darrin Fletcher, Montreal	2.87
Scott Servais, Houston		1.82

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Chris Hoiles, Baltimore		7.82
Mickey Tettleton, Detroit	6.58
Terry Steinbach, Oakland	6.37	; one of Oakland's secret weapons
Brian Harper, Minnesota		5.48
Ivan Rodriguez, Texas		4.43
Pat Borders, Toronto		4.41
Mike Macfarlane, Kansas City	4.16
Dave Valle, Seattle		4.10
Matt Nokes, New York		4.10
Jeff Tackett, Baltimore		4.05
AL AVERAGE			3.99
B. J. Surhoff, Milwaukee	3.67	; and they want him to be a 3B?
Ron Karkovice, Chicago		3.33
Sandy Alomar, Cleveland		3.30
Tony Pena, Boston		3.17
Mike Fitzgerald, California	3.01	; saved from cellar by...
Junior Ortiz, Cleveland		2.62

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Winfield: Best 40-year-old ever?
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 14:14:54 GMT

In article <5508@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>Bill James's 1986 Baseball Abstract presents a list of the best seasons of
>all time by age of player.  Among the 40-year-olds, James picked Willie Mays
>as the MVP.  Mays posted on OPS of .911 in 530 plate appearances in 1971, and
>played left field.
>
>This year, Dave Winfield is on a pace to post an OPS of about .880 over a
>considerably larger number of plate appearances.  Comparing Mays's line with
>Winfield's projection, we get:
>
>	AB  H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  R   BB  AVG  OBP  SLG  SB  CS
>WM     417 113 24   5  18   61 82  112 .271 .429 .482  23   3
>DW     600 175 38   4  28  105 97   80 .291 .375 .505   3   3

On the other hand, Winfield plays in the best hitters park in the AL these
days, while Mays was playing in Shea.  And Mays could've played more often,
I suspect, if he didn't have to field.
-- 
           .........................................................
          ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
         the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
         here i sit looking for a warming smile in a house of cold wit
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: J. Gonzales All-time HR King
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 04:33:30 GMT

In article <BuC3Ly.IFA@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mab50312@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark A. Blickhan) writes:
>
>Those numbers are very incorrect because Gonzalez won't walk JUST 50 time
>per year.  Like McGwire and F.Thomas (not Gorman), the pitchers would put
>him on base.

This is ridiculous!  Unless you mean to say that Andre Dawson is one
of the least-feared hitters in the league?  How about Kirby Puckett?
He must really suck, as he has only been given a free pass 33 times
this year!  Obviously, Jody Reed strikes more fear in the heart of
opposing pitchers than Joe Carter or Travis Fryman.  He walks twice as
often!

Walking, like hitting HRs, is a skill.  It has very little to do with
how good the batter is.  If Dawson can go through an entire 18 year
HOF career without ever walking 45 times in a season, I see no reason
Gonzalez can't do the same.

>I would estimate about 100 - 120 walks per season

Ridiculous!  Very few hitters ever walk 100 times in a season.  And
given Juan's free-swinging start, I would wager that he isn't one of
them.  Only 1/10 of all walks are intentional, you know.  You have
to *work* for the other 90%.

Or was this article meant sarcastically too?  It's too stupid to be
meant seriously.

-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 6669030@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Saturday Dodgers vs Giants Tix for sale
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 23:26:01 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------

|1, maybe 2, tickets for Saturday's Dodgers vs Giants game at
|Candlestick Park.
|
|These are excellent seats right behind first base.
|
|The particulars:
|Sat., Sept. 19, Noon game
|Lower reserved, Section 11, row 13
|
|I'll sell them at $10.25 each, same price I paid when I ordered them
|6 months ago.
|
|I'll also tell you where the free parking is!
|
||---------------------------------------------------------------------
||    @..@         Joey Doernberg                                              |
||   (----)   joey@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com                               |
|	< I  I >	(415) 857-6315 (work)								|
|	  "  "		(415) 595-1232 (home)								|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------

Any of you would be takers...be careful...if the seats are that close to
the field, watch out for errant Dodger throws...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Billy K.                                 |      |\/\/\/|
6669030@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM       |      |      |
                                         |      |      |
"Twins are done" -Gary "the Woof" Huckaby|      | (o)(o)Don't have a cow TK!
                      -9/15/92           |      C      _)/
"Not yet..." -Bill "dreamland" Kilgore   |       | ,___|/
                      -9/15/92           |       |   /
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Ryan Award (was Re: Amazing Walk Total)
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:44:42 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <1992Sep10.172127.37601@watson.ibm.com> mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com writes:

>Periodically, the topic of Ryan retiring comes up and someone always offers
>the opinion that they should name an award after him. This is my nomination
>for the Ryan Award: most (H+BB)/IP.

The problem with this is that Ryan is one of the all-time leaders
in FEWEST H/IP, though when you add the BB his ratio looks normal.

How about least (H - BB) /IP?

Through last year, Ryan had 5163 1/3 IP, 3731 H and 2686 BB.

Actually, something like 
number of Game Scores > 80 (or 90 if we really want to weed
out the mere occasional Cy Young winner) / number of starts.

It would be interesting to look at % of gems for some of
the top pitchers - Clemens & Ryan, Saberhagen, Glavine, Drabek...

I think Clemens & Ryan would be well ahead of anyone else with
150+ starts.  I don't propose to do this study  myself, however...

Dave 


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029