HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James P. Dusek)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 17:06:27 GMT

magenta@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Leilah Thiel) writes:
>  Overboard?  How is this going overboard?  Gays were killed in germany the 
>same way the jewish and the gypsies were.  I don't think we have any room

	This isn't Germany.

>to be complacent about this sort of thing in a country that put its
>Japanese citizens in concentration camps during WWII.  We have political

	Japanese were *NOT* put into concentration camps during WW2.
You are falling for media hype. There is a big difference between
a consentration camp and a detainment camp.

>people dying because of this hatred, and you think that this is going 
>overboard?  Sorry to ask for so much.

	Saying people are killing gays because they are gay is one
thing. Saying "gay" consentration camps are the next thing is going
overboard and making your whole argument look stupid. Alot of people
are killed because they are black/white or the wrong religion. Getting
killed is not a "gay" problem.

James
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 01:39:27 GMT

In article <mccalley.715646775@topaz1> mccalley@rtsg.mot.com (Phil McCalley) writes:
>So maybe it is not impossible for homosexuals to reproduce, but it sure
>is a whole lot harder.  

>When I add these two up, the future don't look good for gays.

Don't be silly, McCalley.  We're counting on heteros like you to breed
new lesbigays.  Hetero parents are having and raising lesbigay
children, despite what they and society in general have to say about
it.
From: michaelb@cse.fau.edu (Michael Rogero Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Current Batch of Uniforms
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:48:53 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton, FL, USA

In article <1992Sep11.182413.8632@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com> jmcc@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (John McCollum) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.213059.8681@iplmail.orl.mmc.com> mwilson@orl.mmc.com writes:
>>Is it just me? Is there someone else out there who thinks that the current 
>>(BSA) uniform shorts are cut too short? I've had complaints from mothers and 
>>boys in my troop. It's hard to encourage complete uniforms when a part of it 
>>makes people uncomfortable.
>>
>>PS: The long pants are not an option for a summer (March to November) in
>>the heart of Florida with 80-90 degree days and 90-100 percent humidity.
>>
>  Mark, are you really able to get your scouts to keep their socks pulled
>up?  Here in Texas, the current fad is to push the sock down to the ankles.
>Our boys wouldn't be caught dead with them pulled all the way to the knees.
>
Well, you guys seem to forget there are 2 types of scout shorts.  There are
the 'field shorts' (the really short ones with the cargo pockets) and the
'regular shorts' which are longer.  Frankly I had always been turned off by
the regular shorts because the photos in the scout catalog made them look
like cut off dress pants (nice cress down the center & all).  However, this
past summer our summer camp staff adopted them as part of their staff uniform.
After a few washings they look like regular style shorts.  I've seen the
one worn and I am definetly going to invest in a couple of pairs.

We also have problems with getting the kids to pull up their socks.  Here too
the kids push them down around their ankles.

Michael Brown
Southwest Florida Council 

-- 
<<                                                               >>
<< Michael R. Brown    CS Graduate Student-Florida Atlantic Univ >>
<< Internet: michaelb@sol.cse.fau.edu                            >>
<< BitNet: m_brown@fauvax                                        >>
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Reply-To: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Organization: QueerNet
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 07:24:40 GMT

In article <dusek.715969540@shale>, dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James Dusek) writes:
|> rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
|> >And you're falling for America-Firster jingoistic bullshit.  Try asking
|> people
|> >who were in the camps...
|> 
|> 	Really, I missed the part where the japanese in the camps
|> talk about the ovens and gas chambers, can you post where these
|> are refered to?

You probably missed the part where it said that the fact that some of the
Nazi concentration camps had ovens and gas chambers doesn't mean all 
concentration camps do...
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2944 alt.discrimination:4235 chi.general:1055 alt.atheism:16801 alt.politics.homosexuality:5822
From: jmcc@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (John McCollum)
Subject: Re: Current Batch of Uniforms
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 23:20:30 GMT

In article <2533@cronos.metaphor.com> emg@Metaphor.COM (Mike Greenawalt) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.213059.8681@iplmail.orl.mmc.com>, mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson) writes:
>|> Is it just me? Is there someone else out there who thinks that the current 
>|> (BSA) uniform shorts are cut too short? I've had complaints from mothers and 
>|> boys in my troop. It's hard to encourage complete uniforms when a part of it 
>|> makes people uncomfortable.
>|> 
>...
>|> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>|> Mark Wilson 
>|> Eagle Class of 1974
>|> SM, Troop 565, Deltona, FL
>
>I don't know about shorts.  The ones I have bought seem OK, but then maybe the
>adult sizes are cut differently.
>
>What gets me is that within the last couple of years the construction of the
>long pants has changed very noticably.  The zippers in the fly have gotten
>much shorter, and frankly make the pants much less comfortable to use.
>
>Has anyone else noticed that phenomenon?
>-- 

   YES !!!!

John McCollum
ASM Troop 895
Circle Ten Council
Richardson, Tx
From: emg@Metaphor.COM (Mike Greenawalt)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: 1957 USA Scout Jamboree
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:45:48 GMT
Reply-To: emg@Metaphor.COM (Mike Greenawalt)
Organization: m4

In article <1992Sep4.191135.9326@relay.nswc.navy.mil>, rweisbe@starfleet.nswc.navy.mil (Bob Weisbeck) writes:
[stuff deleted]
|> 
|>  Another thing that was mentioned is that they cleared an area (I guess it
|> was in the National Park) for everyone to sit on the hill side to see the
|> stage. The caption talks about clearing the trees and sitting on the newly
|> planted grass.  I don't believe that the National Park service would do that
|> today. Don't they have a policy to maintain the scenary as is and not destroy
|> it?   (Of course the foresty dept allows clear cutting but that is a different
|> dept.)

I full-well believe they might have cleared an area on a hillside for use as 
an arena.  Attitudes in the '50s were very different from today's attitudes.  I
even suspect that the (very) many of us who gathered in Valley Forge on the 
night of July 3, 1976 to watch a tremendous fireworks display might well have 
sat on that very same cleared hillside.

Oh, by the way, it may surprise you to know that Valley Forge did not become a
National Park until 1975 or 1976.  Up until then it had been a Pennsylvania
State Park.  The NPS took it over just before the Bicentennial celebrations.

|> 
[stuff deleted]

-- 
+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
| Mike Greenawalt           | emg@metaphor.com                           |
| Manager, Software Quality | ...!{apple|decwrl}!metaphor!emg            |
| 	   Assurance        |                                            |
| Metaphor Computer Systems | Metaphors be with you.                     |
| 1965 Charleston Road      |                                            |
| Mountain View, CA 94043   | These opinions are mine, not my employer's |
+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2930 alt.discrimination:4223 chi.general:1046 alt.atheism:16785 alt.politics.homosexuality:5808
From: omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:49:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UB

In <1992Sep8.230050.10290@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:


>Absolutely, but there is nothing to suggest that you would have
>even the remotest clue as to whether your orientation is learned
>or innate.

     Either it's my life and if it isn't innate I still have the right
to make whatever choices I choose to (so long as I hurt no one)
without your (or anyone elses) interference...  Just as you can choose
to be a chemist, I can choose to be gay (if it were a choice (which it isn't))

Have A Day
-Eftsne (Olu)
*Vox Domini*

******** _______________________________ All expressed opinions are mine unless
 * bi * |   omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu   | otherwise noted..  (UB wouldn't have
  ****  | V117MG7B@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu |  any opinions (besides popular ones)
   **    -------------------------------    anyway..)
Smurf these codes:
         *S8/3 b g+(+) l+(-) y/ z(-) n+ o+(+) x(+) a+ u(+) v(+) j+(+)*
                     *B0 f w cd g++! k(+) s- h- r p*
Good quote follows:
   "I believe that homophobia is equivalent to racism.  Prejudicial violence
     towards gays and lesbians is as irrational as hostility towards African
     Americans.  A bigot is a bigot."     		-L.S. Welch
From: daveh@frackit.UUCP (Dave Hultberg)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Summary: pot=>kettle=>black
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:01:03 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Esoteric Tribble Factory, Harrisburg, PA

In article <1992Sep4.033027.12445@auto-trol.com>, katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:
> Karen Hill, you are an immoral, ignorant bigot. Your immoral, ignorant
> bigotry hurts children.

Now that shows real class Kathy.  Win them over to your side with calm
well thought out arguments. NOT!  Being offensive and calling anyone who
dares to disagree with you is just another form of intollerance.  Name
calling is a childish display that only hurts your position.

Dave Hultberg, Cubmaster Pack 196, Keystone Area Council
Eagle Scout Class of '67, Valley Forge Council



-- 
Private site: ka3uzr    |    Mechanicsburg, Pa.    |    Dave Hultberg
uunet!rutgers!psuvax1!eds1!wa3wbu!frackit!ka3uzr!daveh 
vogon1!wa3wbu!frackit!ka3uzr!daveh@psuvax1.psu.edu  
daveh@ka3uzr.uucp    -or-    ka3uzr!daveh@uunet.UU.NET
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2997 alt.discrimination:4298 alt.politics.homosexuality:5889
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Sep6.022528.22499@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com>
	<1992Sep7.154140.22115@cs.yale.edu> <pink1ec@zola.esd.sgi.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:11:38 GMT

Yes, still crossposted to rec.scouting, because some rec.scouting
readers have no idea how they are hurting their children.

In article <pink1ec@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:

-   I can just about imagine someone, unable to come to terms 
-   with their own sexual identity, wishing for 'help'.    However, 
-   I cannot imagine someone who wishes for 'help' wanting that
-   'help' to come from just anyone who cares to interfere, no 
-   matter how unqualified or malicious that person might be.

Thinking back to my own past, the help I would have wanted would have
been some affirmation that being gay was okay (wow...a scoutmaster
even), that it was normal, that one could live a gay life and not be
on the brink of suicide all of one's life.

My response has nothing to do with the flame war between two certain
people.

--
Andrew Werling   awerling@nmsu.edu   yip@rever.nmsu.edu
"Jesus is coming, look busy."
          --from a button I bought in an Albuquerque bookstore.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: sgi
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 21:59:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.144802.4475@cs.yale.edu>, rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
|> In article <pit07d0@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|> >
|> >
|> >Now I'm not a brain surgeon, so if I followed your reasoning,
|> >and tried to fix your brain hemorrhage the results would be 
|> >disastrous.
|>
|> You would wish, would you not, that I try to obtain for you
|> medical attention?

There is a big difference between getting a qualified person to
help, and insisting on helping yourself.

I have no objection if someone wants to pray for me.   It's 
when they want to coerce me to accept their help that I object.

|> 
|> >As I explained before, this is your fallacy.   It's not any
|> >arbitrary help whatsoever that you desire, but qualified help
|> >from qualified people.
|>
|> Most Christians believe themselves to be qualified.
|> This is, therefore, a nit.

No it's not.   Now you have to say "If I was in situation X
I would want help even from someone who only believed themselves
to be qualified: whose help might in fact be disastrous"

Is that the kind of help you want?


|> 
|> >    And the fact that you would want 
|> >help in one situation does not let you assume that others
|> >would want help in that situation, or qualify you to offer 
|> >help.
|>
|> Then one is failing to apply the golden rule, Mr. Livesey.
|> It states, quite clearly that one is to DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU
|> WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.

But that's the whole point.   Unless you say "I would want help
from any malicious or incompetent person who decides to interfere"
then you are not doing unto others as you would have them do unto
you.

When you cut through the crap, the real problem with your argument
is your formulation of the Golden Rule.  Instead of "Do unto others 
as you would have them do unto you" you want it to say "If you
claim to be willing to accept coercion in your own life, you may
coerce other people".

But this is a hoax, for the people who claim "If I were Gay,
I would want someone to make me straight" are *not* Gay.  They
are not in the situation in which they claim they would want to
be coerced, and never will be.

So they are trying to trade their claim to want coercion in a
situation they will never be in, for the right to coerce others.

It's a bit like the Grand Inquisitor saying "If I were a 
heretic, I would want them to burn me" or a Nazi saying "If
I were a Jew I would want them to gas me".    But the Grand
Inquisitor is *not* a heretic, and the Nazi is *not* a Jew,
so their appeal to the Golden rule is not being made in good
faith.

And neither is yours.

jon.
From: dennett@sunshine.Kodak.COM (Charles R. Dennett)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Entertaining the boys
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:37:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: kodak.1992Sep15.143756.5725
Organization: Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, NY

I have a request to make.  I am one of the assistant Cubmasters for my
two sons pack.  Our first pack meeting of the year is this Thursday
night.  The way it usually works is that the Cubmaster takes the
parents off to another room and gives them a pep talk about how we need
their help during the year, etc.

We usually don't have any official program for the boys the first
meeting.  So, it is up to me and the other assistant Cubmaster to
entertain the boys and their siblings.  We're looking for ideas.
Can you supply any?  The boys cover the range from Tiger (1st grade)
to 2nd year Webelos (5th grade).  There's also the siblings.  Their
ages an range all over the map.

If I get a whole bunch of stuff, I will put it all together and post it
so other may benefit.

Thanks so much for all your help.

Charles Dennett          | Rochester Distributed Computer Services
Mail Stop 01816          |   Customer Technical Support Services
Eastman Kodak Company    | ---------------------------------------
Rochester, NY 14650-1816 |       Internet: dennett@Kodak.COM

Asst Cubmaster, Pack 48, Greece, NY, Otetiana Council
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rsd@sei.cmu.edu (Richard S D'Ippolito)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination...
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:35:33 GMT


In article <1992Sep4.033027.12445@auto-trol.com>, Kathy Beatty sputters:

|> Karen Hill, you are an immoral, ignorant bigot. Your immoral, ignorant
|> bigotry hurts children.
|>
|> Kathy

Yes, Karen, report to the principal's office immediately!

Rich


   "Please keep in mind that the ultimate goal [of hi-fi] is the
   reproduction of art, and that the invocation of science, while a neat
   parlour trick, is often unnecessary, flawed, and unreasonable."
   --  name mercifully withheld...                            rsd@sei.cmu.edu
From: jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 5 Sep 92 19:08:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

I'm sitting here reading your last few posts about what you believe
homosexuals (gay men specifically) are all about, and I really can't help
giggling.  What strange and laughable myths you straigh folk have.

5 partners a day?  *giggle*
No such thing as a long term relationship??  *guffaw*
All gay men are into young boys???  *outright laughter*

Really!  You guys are about as amusing as a Grimm Fairy Tale!

JOhn.

-- 
/-John A Kusters, jr.--------------------------------------------------- ______
| jkusters@ares.calpoly.edu   b0- f- w g- s-- r p++                      \    /
Silence keeps us all in darkness, We can't change things overnight;       \  /
But we can shed a little light, Be Political not Polite! -Romanovsky & Phillips
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: lalibr@jec305.its.rpi.edu (Ron Scott Laliberte)
Subject: Scouting now that you are in College
Summary: A fraternity based on the scouting ideals
Keywords: Alpha Phi Omega
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:24:28 GMT

  Alpha Phi Omega is a National (Co-Ed!) Service Fraternity.  It was founded
by former Eagle Scouts back in 1925.  We have over 300 chapters active across
the US, and a fair number in the Phillipines as well.  Ideas are being toyed
with for chapters elsewhere, but I have not heard anything definite thus far.
  APhiO (APO) was founded to bring the ideals of scouting farther into peoples
lives.  To provide a role model for the youth of the world.  And to eventually
find a better solution, than war, to the worlds problems.
  When most people hear the word Fraternity, they usually think of Animal 
House, or other such sterotypes of beer guzzlign social groups.  First off,
not all Social Fraternities are like that, and second we are NOT a 
social Fraternity.   
  We are a Service Fraternity.   Serving the Campus, Community, Country,
and our Chapters.  We help raise money for Charities, go out and help
people in our community whenever we can, help run blood drives.... 
Many chapters also are VERY involved with local Boy Scout/Girl Scout troops.  
We take them hiking, and camping... help keep the local camps in good 
maintainance, and help them with getting their badges.
  There is a lot that YOU can do for the world.  Whether you were a scout
before, or not... If you want to help your fellows out there, and enjoy the 
family spirit that scouting puts forth (Ed Note:Family Spirit, not Family
Values...thats another ball of Wax) then APO may be for you!
  Check out your school, there just might be a chapter there.
  If you have any questions, you can email me, or if they are of broad 
interest to scouts post them here...
  In Leadership, Friendship & Service (the three ideals of APO)
Vivs

Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 15:41:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.022528.22499@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com> max@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com (Max Webb) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.182434.21206@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>>It strikes me that the claim that bigotry is "immoral" is every bit
>>as tenuous as the claim that homosexuality is "immoral". While
>>I agree that there is no support for the latter, neither do I
>>see support for the former.
>Wellll, most people buy into the 'treat others as you would yourself
>be treated' principle, and so do I. This has the fundamental requirement
>that you treat them as people - not, for example, as means to an end.
>So I take this 'translational invariance' as an axiom.
Yes, but I don't.

>Bigotry doesn't treat others as people, with all their complexity, but
>as cartoon bad guys. The inference about the immorality of bigotry follows
>straight away.
No, you have a hidden assumption, which is that people wish to be
treated more or less as you do. If I wish that people not treat me
equally well, but "help" me (I.e. try to make me straight) if I am
gay, then I would naturally treat others in the same way.

And, by your standards therefore, be moral.
So, even if I grant your axiom, your conclusion still does not
follow.
-Ekr

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Fund Raising Ideas needed
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:54:46 GMT
Reply-To: mwilson@orl.mmc.com
Organization: Martin Marietta Orlando

In article 16705@linus.mitre.org,  (m19701) writes:
>In article <1685CE76F.A8637710@tscc.macarthur.uws.edu.au>,
>l.gudiksen@uws.edu.au wrote:
>> 
>> G'day to all.
>>  
>> I have decided to post this to see if any people have some inovative ideas
>> for raising funds for their group that they may like to share.
>>  
>
>Greetings and Salutations. . . 	
>
>					One of the "fun" fund raising activities I've seen recently was a
>"Meadow Pie Lotto" (also called a Paddy Drop, a Meadow Muffin, and numerous
>other names). 

This fundraiser, like raffles, would be prohibited under the fundraising 
criteria established by the BSA. Gambling and games of chance (which this 
surely is) are not allowed.

Sounds like a good idea for non-BSA groups, though.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson 
Eagle Class of 1974
SM, Troop 565, Deltona, FL
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2858 alt.discrimination:4148 chi.general:989 alt.atheism:16633 alt.politics.homosexuality:5719