From: ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell)
Subject: Paying Attention (was: Reincarnation)
Organization: Entropy Limited, Vancouver Canada
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 21:57:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.031305.14118@hfsi.uucp> ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.035406.4927@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca> ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell) writes:
>>
>>That certainly takes the cake for a non sequitur. He wasn't saying that
>>belief in a rabbit's foot was any of those things, he was saying that it 
>>did not fit the given definition of superstition.
>>[...remainder of explanation omitted: see earlier article...]
>
>You're right.  I thought he was saying that a belief in a rabbit's foot
>was indistinguishable from religion.  That is why I was trying to show
>that it didn't fit into the definition of religion.

In the article you're responding to here, I quoted what he actually wrote,
namely:

In article <1992Sep27.224930.26733@hfsi.uucp> ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:
>In article <1a4rjkINNf10@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>>In article <1992Sep26.145922.22060@hfsi.uucp>, ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:
>>=>But how does one differentiate "religious beliefs" from "superstition"?
>>=Rich, the dictionary defines religious beliefs as those beliefs
>>=concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe
>>=especially belief or worship in God or gods.  Superstition, on the
>>=other hand is defined as an irrational belief in the ominous
>>=significance of a particular thing or circumstance.
>>
>>Hmmm.  That seems a rather odd definition of superstition.  It means, among
>>other things, that a belief that a rabbit's foot will bring good luck is *NOT*
>>a superstition.  Please let us know what dictionary you use, so that we can
>>avoid repeating your mistake in purchasing it.

From this you "thought he was saying that a belief in a rabbit's foot
was indistinguishable from religion"??????? Are you suggesting that
anything that "is *NOT* a superstition" is "indistinguishable from
religion", or did your conclusion come from something more specifically
related to rabbit's feet? This sort of logical leap is so far-fetched that
I suspect that in fact it arose from simple failure to pay attention to
what was written.

>However, doesn't a belief in a rabbit's foot bringing good luck have the
>implication that if I forget my rabbit's foot or fail to carry it with
>me today, then *bad* luck will strike me?  That certainly sounds ominous to
>me!

Not to me, it doesn't. Are you postulating that an object's perceived 
ability to bring good luck _necessarily_ carries with it a perceived ability 
to ward off bad luck? (Or does this come from something more specifically 
related to rabbit's feet?) 
    A friend of mine buys lottery tickets on a regular basis, in the belief
that this could lead to good fortune. (In early 1991 he won $250,000 this
way.) I haven't asked Steve, but I strongly doubt that if he didn't get
around to buying a ticket one week he'd consider this an ominous
circumstance.
    By the way, if a person had the belief that a rabbit's foot had the
ability to ward off _bad_ luck, then the circumstance of such a person's 
discovering they'd forgotten it one day might well have ominous significance 
to them. I can't speak for Carl, of course, but it seems to me that this
_would_ fit the rather poor definition of superstition quoted above.
However, the careful reader will note that Carl was not talking
about such an individual's beliefs; he was talking about (his words,
emphasis added) "a belief that a rabbit's foot will bring _*good*_ luck." 
His point still stands: "That seems a rather odd definition of superstition.
It means, among other things, that a belief that a rabbit's foot will bring 
good luck is *NOT* a superstition."

Please note: I am disagreeing with you here on certain quite specific
points. This is not to be construed as disagreeing with other things you
believe in, nor is it to be construed as espousing any beliefs that you do
not believe in, except as explicitly stated in the text above.
    This disclaimer is motivated by, among other factors, your statement
that Carl's assertion that a certain belief failed to fit the given (poor)
definition of superstition led you to the conclusion: "I thought he was 
saying that a belief in a rabbit's foot was indistinguishable from religion."

-- 
ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca   {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!eslvcr!ted   (Ted Powell)