HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: van@teal.csn.org (Claude W. Van Horn)
Subject: Re: (Best W.C. Fields drawl...) "Shaddup kid, y'er botherin' me"
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 06:58:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.220214.13420@advtech.uswest.com> ron@eatdust.uswest.com (Ron Schweikert) writes:
>
>Question: how do you handle the "know it all" or smart-aleck kid who 
>challenges your particular effect with "I know how you did that...", or 
>"that's easy, you just *somehow* made the card come through the cloth..."
>or "<insert obtrusion here>.

I get them up on stage, hand them a piece of rope, and say "NOW! 
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!  For your pleasure, here is (what's your name kid) 
LAARRY THE GREAT! to perform the amazing ROPE TRICK!

and I stand back and watch.  He will fiddle around with the rope for about 
10 or 20 seconds, start to look up -- (timing is important here) and I say
Oh, Sorry, I forgot my lines.  Then I get out a pair of sissors, and let Larry 
help me with the rope trick.  He will be a hero, make him promise to keep
the secret, and let him sit down to the applause. 

He is usually one of the greatest friends of the show after that, and can 
even help keep other kids quiet for you.  THis works for me, hope it works
for you too.  (Dont give him a desk of cards or he will do that lousy
deal out three rows of 20000 cards and pick them up 23,000 times for the rest
of the show).

Van the Adequate, Magician
n
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: mjamroz@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Margaret Jamroz)
Subject: Penn & Teller...
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:03:30 GMT

Penn asked me to pass this on to alt.magic and it's for all the folks who 
subscribe to the Delphi, where the Penn and Teller BBS, Mofo, is located:					


Penn will be on-line to chat with people in a forum-style setup tonight from 
10:00pm to 11:00pm EST.

Here's your chance!


maggie jamroz
resident techno goddess, northwestern university med school
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: batten@kodak.kodak.com (James Batten)
Subject: Re: How does he fly
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 20:00:55 GMT

Relax already. Wether DC uses a 'stooge' or not is a moot issue. She does not
create the illusion of flying, he does that nicely all by himself prior to
her direct involvement. All she does is add to the entertainment.. perhaps
add a bit of (romance?).

  I can't speak for any one else on the net, but when I watch a magician I do
it to be entertained, the same if I had gone to a movie. When I see someones
head blown off in The Terminator I know its not for real, and I am smart 
enough to know that about a magicians performance as well. If I see a dollar
floating in the air and I am amazed my it, then on reflection I realize how
it was done and feel that it was a lousy way to do it I would still give the
magician a great deal of credit.. If on the other hand I realized what great
technical slight of hand skill the performer used, but did not feel the 
slightest bit of wonderment then I would have to say he was one lousy 
entertainer.

  I love it when I see all the GREAT CRITICS out here in net land try to tear
this stuff apart. The only reason I can see for it is to show all of us how
smart you really are. WOW... my biggest thrill is to see how many of you great
brains tend to explain off a great illusion with.. " it had to be a stooge from
the audience."  Try to do some self evaluation before you tear into the works
of others who work very hard to try and brighten our lives (as well as line
their wallets...)
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Torn/restored newspaper -- also, "how does DC do the tricks"
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:03:58 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <1992Sep8.143108.27419@advtech.uswest.com>
ron@eatdust.uswest.com (Ron Schweikert) writes: 
[...]
>
>That being said, just *how does* DC get air pumps powerful enough under the
>stage to lift him up like the air hockey game!?  :-) :-) :-) 

Ron - he doesn't.  I'm not sure this was a serious suggestion, but
I'll treat it as if it were.  If he used the Bournoulli (sp?) effect
(principle of science, not magic), his hair would fly all over the
place, and it would be a real hassle when he went into the box.

So how's he do it?  Wires.  Yeah, it's just a bunch of wires (10 to be
exact), in a fan formation attached to a harness around his waist.
The committee he invites on stage can almost certainly see this, and
the girl is either a member of the crew or they pick someone and set
her up beforehand.  She has five wires of her own, you see.

This again brings up what I hate the most about Copperfield.  His use
of plants & stooges points out his lack of ability to do it any other
way.  At least when Penn & Teller do it they let you in on the joke -
I'm referring to the trick where Teller gets run over by a truck, with
the audience watching on to 'ensure fairness'.

	RA

rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: van@teal.csn.org (Claude W. Van Horn)
Subject: Re: How does he fly
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 07:19:41 GMT

The fact that he uses a stooge is incidental.  The effect was absolutely
astounding.  In fact IMHO that show was the finest piece of magical production
work I have ever seen.  The penetration of the lovely young thing through DC's
body was one of the most totally erotic things I have seen on T.V.

His stage magic is great, and the production team for this last show was 
simply outstanding.  He uses some of the finest stage magicians in the world
for his producers, so no wonder.

What I do is to tape the show.  Then for the show itself and the first 
two or three times I watch the tape, I try to lose myself in the "magic"
of the performance.  I agree with others.  If Magic is not entertaining --
if it does not light your emotional candles -- then it is the same as the 
card tricks your Uncle Charley did at the family re-union when you were a pup.

I have seen magicians have an audience rolling in the isles with a dumb trick
you could buy in a magic store for $10.   It is the entertainment, not the 
effect.  DC is one of the finest magicians of his type that ever was.

but your magic does not have to be of that type to be fantastic.  I do a 
version of Card Wharp (one of the tricks DC did on the Johnny Carson show
(a card turns inside out when it passes through a tunnel made by another
card).  My version is better than Copperfields IMO.  In my version, I let
spectators pick cards at random from a deck, sign them, and show the cards
folded and unfolded several times durring the presentation.  

You must find the kind of magic that entertains you, and that you can work with
inside your own personality.  Become the BEST at doing four or five 
*presentations* instead of 30 or 40 tricks, and you will have great success.

It's really fun to have your friends say "Hey! You just GOTTA show that 
coin thing to Ed here!" instead of you saying "ya wanna see a trick???
One of the most telling lines in a book (for me) was the line in Douglas Adams
book RESTERAUNT AT THE END OF THE UNIVERSE that was just placed in a paragraph
at random toward the bottom of a page as a part of a description of a kind
of an ordinary day.  "a Magician walked along the beach, but no one needed him".

To be needed, ya gotta ENTERTAIN!

Van, the flaiming Adequate, Magician.
e
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 13:32:29 EDT
From: <HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Dai Vernon passed away
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep4.171823.13822@desktalk.desktalk.com>,
ted@sangabriel.desktalk.com (Ted Eggers) says:
>
>Dai Vernon passed away last week. There was a nice obit in the LA Times.
>Magic has lost another one of its giants.
>
>Ted Eggers
>ted@desktalk.com

I experienced rather unusual feelings when I heard that The Professor
had died.  I am deeply saddened by the loss of such an influential member
of the magical family.  I have never met Dai, but his advice and lectures
have guided me as they have guided an entire generation of magicians.
He will be sorely missed, and his voice of reason will never be replaced.

Dai, you will be missed...
Hans C. Masing   HCM100 @ PSUVM.psu.edu
From: jittlov@gumby.cs.caltech.edu (Mike Jittlov)
Subject: Re: Torn/restored newspaper -- also, "how does DC do the tricks"
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:00:08 GMT

ron@eatdust.uswest.com (Ron Schweikert) writes:

>One quick question.  I've been looking for a publication for the torn and
>restored newspaper effect.  It seems straightforward enough (I've played 
>with ways to do it), but would like some different insights.  I'm most
>interested in a version where 3-5 pages of a newspaper are thumbed through,
>and then "restored" after tearing.  There must be an easier prep for the
>effect than what I'm doing.  It is either too clumsy (require perhaps just
>more practice) or there's a better way.  Insights would be appreciated.

Several solutions come to mind.  Please describe the effect in more detail.

Simplest version involves showing the newspaper(s), tearing papers up,
_folding_ all that into a packet, *magic*, and unfolding it restored.

One solution involves a matching page(s), and a little glue.  Either let
the evidence dangle on your side, or palm it when you go for an object 
of distraction, or stuff it in a vanisher, or burn it, or flash-paper it,
or/ALT.MAGIC CENSOR!ALT.MAGIC CENSOR!ALT.MAGIC CENSOR!ALT.MAGIC CENSOR!

Okay okay.  And don't forget the little piece that flutters down, that
just happens to match the still-unrestored hole on Page 4 ;)

>That being said, just *how does* DC get air pumps powerful enough under the
>stage to lift him up like the air hockey game!?  :-) :-) :-) 

Why - the clue is in Dave Copperfield's initials!  Pipes beneath his
stage are routed directly from Washington DC's Senate chambers.  The
real trick is performing the stage illusion, when the Senate is
actually in session/ALT.MAGIC CENSOR!!ALT.MAGIC CENSOR!!ALT.MAGIC CENSOR!!


Views/News/Blames/Flames:
________________________________________ ___._`.*.'_._ ________
 Mike Jittlov - Wizard, etc       .   . +  * .o   o.* `.`. +.  
  Hollywood, CA 90026-2714       '   *  . ' ' |\^/|  `. * .  *
jittlov@gumby.cs.caltech.edu  (: May All Your  \V/  Good Dreams
  <& alt.fan.mike-jittlov>    and Fine Wishes  /_\  Come True:)
============================================= _/ \_ ===========
From: blake@acsu.buffalo.edu (Brian C. Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: NYCAN '92 Info
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:21:25 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

Ok...a bunch o' people wnated it...so here it is...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NYCAN 1992 IN BINGHAMTON, NY

Sponsored by IBM Ring 79 and the Southern Tier Magic Circle

October 8-10, 1992

*** 3 GREAT SHOWS *** NUMEROUS LECTURES ***

Close-up performers/lecturers:

	o Steve Dusheck
	o Dan Harlan
	o Dan Garrett
	o Lamont Ream
	o David Roth

Evening shows featuring:

	o Ward Thomas
	o Rob and Carol Allen
	o Tony Baronio
	o Johnathan David Bass
	o David Black

	o George Campbell
	o Robert Channing
	o Brian Geer
	o Al Grout
	o Bruce Kikola

	o George Marchiondo
	o Ken McCreedy
	o Toby Travis

Plus ---
	o Super Banquet
	o Twelve dealers
	o Intensive sessions with David Roth available


Registration is $70.00 US for all 3 days (make checks payable to "RING 79")

To be held at The Binghamton Regency (formerly The Sheraton at Sarbro Square)
Binghamton, NY 13902
	Single or Double occupancy - $60.00
	Triple occupancy - $70.00
	Quad occupancy - $80.00
	Call (607) 722-7575 - NYCAN is Group #G1391

For more registration info, or to reserve your space, contact:

	Phil Messina, Secretary
	311 Floral Avenue
	Johnson City, NY  13790
	(607) 797-7241

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thank you for your attention.

Brian Blake
From: joji@twics.co.jp
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: alt.magic
Date: 6 Sep 92 11:10:09 GMT
Organization: TWICS, Tokyo, Japan

>David Copperfield is coming to town! To Singapore and he will be performing
>here at the Indoor Stadium.

>Will someone enlighten me on how he do all his tricks? It is indeed amazing
>to see how he "flies" through the air and makes the Statue of Liberty
>"disappear". Halluciation?

I am taking it for granted that you are a magician.
You know, you should really let this one go.

Try to regard David Copperfield as a performer, not a magician.  If you go
back and look at his performances, you'll see that his effects, let alone
the modus operandi of them, are minor elements in his shows.  (Mind you,
the effects are created by other magicians).

The fact is, that unless you have a high appreciation for the art, a lot of 
his effects will simply disappoint you.  These are the kind of secrets that 
you'll wish you never asked.  They are good effects.  But to get the 
audience reaction that David gets, you need to be able to deliver a 
presentation as good as his.  And that is hard because his presentations 
personalize his effects.  Don't go out and do something that magicians
like David Copperfield or Doug Henning have popularized.  People that have
seen these performers on TV will always compare your 'execution' to their
'presentation'.

If you are a magician that can fool the pants off people (entertainingly
hopefully) but still get stumped by David Copperfield, consider yourself 
lucky.  Forgive my lack of modesty, but I am one such person.  I am lucky
because I still have a place to turn for pure fun entertainment.

Speaking of pure fun entertainment, another magician you must see is
Tom Mullica.  Great entertainment.  Here, we probably know what's going
on, but nevertheless, entertaining.  Fantastic cigarette routine.  Funniest
guy I ever saw in my life.
From: joji@twics.co.jp
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Skill vs. Showmanship
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:44:02 GMT
Organization: TWICS, Tokyo, Japan

>>On a small table are a glass of water, a toothbrush, and a tube of
>>toothpaste.  The first performer comes on, squeezes some toothpaste onto
>>the brush, and proceeds to brush his teeth.  He then rinses with the
>>water, spitting it back into the cup.  The next performer comes on,
>>squeezes more toothpaste onto the brush, brushes his teeth thoroughly,
>>then uses the dirty water to rinse, again spitting it back into the cup.
>>The audience gets more grossed out and groans more loudly as two other
>>performers come on and further dirty the water in their turn.  The cup
>>is looking positively sickening when the last performer comes on.  For
>>this role Mr. McGrew would chose the prettiest, most dainty girl he
>>could find.  After brushing her teeth, this girl does the unthinkable:
>>she raises the filthy cup to her lips and drinks it all down, swallowing
>>several times, till every last drop is gone.

>>Have any of you seen a similar trick?  Do any of you know of some other
>>device or explanation for this skit?

I heard that Alice Cooper did it in one of his concerts, the toothpaste
rinse being saliva instead.  The final drinker was none other than Alice
himself.
Don't think that was a trick.

Joji Matsuo
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
|Joji Matsuo      | From the country where black art is used to control|
|Fujisawa, Japan  | pornography.                                       |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst")
Subject: Torn/restored newspaper -- also, "how does DC do the 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 07:14:35 +0000


In article <92253.152958HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu> HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

>purpose of this newsgroup.  If you want to discuss it, join Bruce's mailing
>list (after you convince Bruce that you are a magician) and you can get all
>
Can somebody put up some information about Bruce's mailing list please?

Nigel

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pbaker@tbag.tscs.com (Pete Baker)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: (Best W.C. Fields drawl...) "Shaddup kid, y'er botherin' me"
Date: 12 Sep 92 12:17:28 EST
Organization: Tampa Bay Amiga Group

On Sat 12-Sep-1992 11:55a, Bruce Barnett wrote:
 In article <1992Sep8.220214.13420@advtech.uswest.com>
 ron@eatdust.uswest.com (Ron Schweikert) writes:
 
 >   Question: how do you handle the "know it all" or smart-aleck kid [...]
 
you might have to include a sucker trick in your routine... not the first one, but close to the beginning...  if your shows are anything like mine, the know-it-all will surface.. play it to the hilt!!!  When you reveal that he is not so smart as he appears, you have pretty much squelched the interruptions from that point on. (of course you thank him for being such a great sport)

another thing that works is when asking for volunteers:  Thrust your arm into the air and while waving your hand wildly, say "I need someone to help me that is sitting quietly with thier hands in thier lap."  The overanxious children will certainly be waving hands wildly and the mild mannered ones will be sitting still.  I focus on  the child who is sitting still.  Then wait for the others to realize that they should be sitting quiet and still if they want to be picked.  Then I reveal the chosen helper!  T

his gives me an attentive audience and a helper that will not try to steal the show.

Last point is that I do things like sword through the neck using the loud mouth... (for those of you who have never seen this effect.. a wooden block is placed around the subjects neck and they are told to hold the handles on each side.. you then take a sword and push it through the back to the front so that it is going right through the spectators neck.
I tell the loud mouth to put the block around his neck.  I lock it into place and then stick the blade in so that it pokes him in the neck at the back, lean in real close and whisper into his ear.. "if you continue to be a pain in the rear, I might forget how this trick is done!" and then I give him a little poke with the blade.  the rest of the patter is about the same.. (IE: making him stand on a lot of newspaper to catch the blood, Any last words?, etc..)

Maybe I'm jaded, but those little rug rats dont get the best of me!!

For the younger audiences (little kids): I first produce a lot of sticky candy and throw it out to them so that they have to dig into the carpet to get to it.. Then I produce a nice shedding bunny and let those sticky fingered little monsters pet the bunny... The fur really sticks to those little mits of thiers.. then I produce more candy and throw it out to them.. now they get to eat rug fibers, bunny fur, and candy..  What a smug feeling of satisfaction!!!

So its a sick sense of humor, you say?   Try working a couple of Bar-Mitzvahs and see if you dont want revenge!

--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)

Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: rick@opus.alf.dec.com (Rick Silverstein)
Subject: Re: How does he fly
Reply-To: rick@opus.alf.dec.com (Rick Silverstein)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:48:07 GMT


> DC uses the stooge to make the flying illusion appear to be greater than it is.  
                                        ^^^^^^^^              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sound like you just contradicted yourself.
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: How does he fly
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:48:19 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

<HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
|I believe it was the Professor (Dai Vernon - missed sorely already)
|who stated something along these lines:
|
|It is essential that an audience be given no reason to detect, let alone
|suspect, the method used to achieve an illusion.
| [...]
|There will always be people who cannot look at magic without saying
|"Yeah, he did some type of secret magicians move there" and explaining
|things away.  But I have to ask if they are there to enjoy the magic
|or to enjoy the technical skill.

I think this last paragraph is unfair to audiences, and contradicts the
earlier paragraphs.  If you invite spectators to examine what you're doing
(whether they are genuine spectators or stooges) you're ASKING people to
wonder about how you did it.  It's like saying "nothing up my sleeve."
From: Thomas_E_Zerucha@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: How does he fly
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 16:28:13 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Sep9.200055.14969@kodak.kodak.com>
  <1992Sep11.164942.13372@spider.co.uk> <1992Sep11.175124.20640@inel.gov>

The thing that bothers me about Copperfield using a stooge (actually, I
think the first few rows...) is that it is starting to go outside what
is "magic" and not some kind of Hollywood special effect.  I would not
consider it "magic" if someone made Mount Ranier disappear in front of
100 people, if they were all stooges, and the disappearance was accomplished
by advanced image processing technology.  Yes, it would be a great illusion,
but would not be magic.

If he simply did it by himself, it would be a very good illusion.  Adding
"a member of the audience" makes it better, but at the cost of stretching
what he is doing outside of common bounds.  On a magic video I have, it
starts off with a (badly done) camera trick, then goes on to do "magic".
If magic is an artform, then there are some things you shouldn't do.  There
is a difference between photographs and paintings.  And you can paint over a
photograph.  When do you cease being a painter and become a photographer?
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: The Amazing Jonathan...
From: tasdevil@netlink.cts.com (Adam Spragg)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 12:22:24 PDT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

has anyone ever seen this guy?  He is a very talented bizarre comedy 
magician.  He was on some stand-up comedy show the other night, and I 
missed seeing him...  Can anyone describe some of his effects to me?  I 
want to know more about him...
thanx...

--                    
INTERNET:  tasdevil@netlink.cts.com (Adam Spragg)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!tasdevil
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: (Best W.C. Fields drawl...) "Shaddup kid, y'er botherin' me"
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:05:49 GMT
Reply-To: barnett@crdgw1.ge.com
Organization: GE Corp. R & D, Schenectady, NY

In article <1992Sep8.220214.13420@advtech.uswest.com> ron@eatdust.uswest.com (Ron Schweikert) writes:

>   Question: how do you handle the "know it all" or smart-aleck kid [...]

If there is only one, I might say "You probably figured it out. Don't
ruin it for everyone else. Let it be OUR secret".

This builds up the prestige of the kid in the eyes of the audience,
and also gives him a reson to not explain how something works (which
s/he probably can't do anyway). It puts him on your side, and not
against you.
--
Bruce Barnett <barnett@crd.ge.com> uunet!crdgw1!barnett
Newsgroups: alt.magic