HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "Thomas Griesbaum" <KA04@DKAUNI2.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Ultimate Tournament Dates
Date: 17 Dec 1992 10:43:28 +0100
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Distribution: world

Dec. 15, 1992

I have been asked for this and therefore decided to post it.
These are the tournaments I know of which have some relevance to European
teams (and perhaps to travelling Ultimate players from overseas as well).

As you can see, I don't know of many at the moment and would like to ask
you to send any date(s) you might know to me.

The EFDF plans to mail a tournament list in the near future and has asked
the European associations to send in their dates. Until last week Vice
President Alex Kloetzel only received one reply from Sweden.

So, please, send your dates either to me or to Alex Kloetzel.


January
23./24.     Goettingen (D)   Qualification to German Indoor Ultimate
                             Championships (3rd Division North)
30./31.     Munich (D)       Qualification to German Indoor Ultimate
                             Championships (3rd Division South)

February
6./7.       Aachen (D)       Qualification to German Indoor Ultimate
                             Championships (3rd Division Middle)
20./21.     Essen (D)        Ruhrpott Cup (Indoor Ultimate)
20./21.     Utrecht (NL)     Double Dutch (Int. Indoor Ultimate)

March
6./7.       Munich (D)       Qualification to German Indoor Ultimate
                             Championships (1st Division)
20./21.     Berlin (D)       Indoor Ultimate tournament (?)
27./28.     Rotenburg (D)    German Indoor Ultimate Championships (1st, 2nd
                             and Women Division)

April
2.-4.       Aachen (D)       European Indoor Ultimate Club Championships
10.-12.     Versailles (F)   International Indoor Ultimate tournament
9.-12.      Geneva (CH)      WIZ Open (?) (Outdoor Ultimate)

May
1./2. (?)   Milano (I)       International Ultimate Tournament
15./16.     Bruges (B)       International Freezzz-beezzz Ultimate Turnier
20.-23.     Rotterdam (NL)   International Harbour Tournament (Ultimate)(?)
29.-31.     Carrieres (F)    International Ultimate Tournament
29.-31.     Amsterdam (NL)   Mokum Memorial (Ultimate) (?)

June
26./26.     Kassel (D)       2nd German College Ultimate Championships

July
25.-31.     Madison (USA)    3rd WFDF World Ultimate Club Championships
30.-1.      Den Haag (NL)    Int. Ultimate tournament during the World
                             Games 1993

Thomas Griesbaum, Brieger Str. 8, 7500 Karlsruhe 1, Germany
Tel.: +49-721-67698 (h), +49-721-608 4001 (w), Fax: +49-721-697760
New address:
Alex Kloetzel, Reumontstr. 42, 5100 Aachen, Germany
Tel. +49-241-31367, Fax: +49-241-82517
-------
Thomas Griesbaum, European Flying Disc Federation (EFDF), President
ka04@dkauni2.bitnet/ka04@ibm3090.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de/thgries@ira.uka.de
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: theisen@iowa.physics.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: Ultimate as a spectator
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:40:07 GMT
Organization: Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Iowa



AAAhhhiiieeeeeee!!!!!

	I can't believe the people who wish to do all this stuff just
to make ultimate a spectator sport
	I asked my girlfriend who likes watching other pro sports and
has seen several years of ultimate (including college nationals and
open regionals) what ultimate needed, and she said  "Popcorn and hotdogs." 
So there you have it!!!   You also need ten cameras, slow-motion
to see the lay-outs, and dancing girls selling beer and cars every 10 min.

	-They televise men/women bowling, golf,tennis,baseball etc.
	-When does the crowd roar? when some one scores at an important
	 or does somthing athletic like jumps and launches after
	 an object, ultimate has tons of this, there is plenty of action


The only things i see for 'PRO Ultimate' are refs (so we know what the
calls are), a game played to time (so it will fit into the T.V. schedual,
though someone did mention bowling isn't timed),  If the games are timed
this will necessatate a shot clock.  Also, perhaps an outlaw of zones 
(like pro b-ball, though football has them).  But hey, like basket-ball, 
'pro ultimate' doesn't mean this will be the same as in college or pickup.

		just some opinions/   billy t/   iowa ultimate

Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: mswitkes@ralph.cs.haverford.edu (Mike Switkes)
Subject: Disc in East Bay?
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:27:39 GMT

Quick question:  I'm home (in Oakland) for a long winter break (till 18 January
and am wondering if there is any pick up disc around (or even a team practice 
which I can show up to) during this time.  Please reply by e-mail as I doubt 
that too many people are interested in the results.

Thanks much,

Mike


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Switkes					mswitkes@haverford.edu
Haverford College
Haverford PA,  19041				(215) 896-2387
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: karenr@geronimo.sps.mot.com (Karen Ramondetta)
Subject: Re: Number of players
Reply-To: karenr@geronimo.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola, Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:58:51 GMT

In article 26230@galileo.cc.rochester.edu, sd007b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Sunil Dixit) writes:

>>What is the optimal number of players to have on a team? (that's
>>a touring team, holding practices and taking the game fairly seriously).
>
>>anja
>>haman@mprgate.mpr.ca
>
>Anja,
>
>That would depend on how good they are.  The ideal situation would be to
>have fourteen awesome players, so you could stick in a whole new fresh team
>every point.  Alas, only in Ithaca.  My best advice would be around 25 guys. 
                                                                     ^^^^^^^
So does this mean about 15 women??  Sorry, couldn't resist... 
:) 

Karen

"Go Ho Ho HO!"- Santa on the sidelines
From: bell@beethoven.cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: Ultimate as a spectator
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:07:48 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <1992Dec15.114007.1@iowa.physics.uiowa.edu> theisen@iowa.physics.uiowa.edu writes:
>Also, perhaps an outlaw of zones (like pro b-ball, though football has them).

I think it hurts the pro game that it doesn't have zones.  College basketball
is more interesting than the pros because there's the defensive strategy to
watch as well as the offensive.  So puuuuuulease don't even think of doing
such terrible things to ultimate...

  Andrew Bell
  bell@cs.unc.edu


Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: hogge@intellection.com (John Hogge)
Subject: Re: Ultimate as a spectator
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:01:10 GMT


Pro Ultimate need not change the rules of Amateur Ultimate.  The Pro
rules can benefit the spectator, while the Amateur rules can benefit
the player, maximize SOTG, and assume no clocks and refs.

>ULtimate.  He said that it's not the REF or NO REF which slows the game
>down, but the FOULS themselves.  He pointed to Water Polo, which, in his
>opinion, is terrible for spectating because there are so many stoppages
>of play.  And, yet, there _are_ refs in Water Polo.

If fouls are occuring too often, the penalties aren't severe enough.
However, they can't be made so severe that SOTG is sacrificed.  For
instance, I see alot of fouls for hitting the thrower's hand before
release.  The defense is covering or hacking too close, since there's
no disadvantage to doing so.  I'd suggest a mold penalty such as
allowing the offense to restart play up to three strides any
direction.  Three strides is as far as the thrower can walk.  He can
go backward to get better position into the endoze, sideways to
center, forward, etc.

--John
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: amostofi@iastate.edu (Afsheen Mostofi)
Subject: Re: Ultimate as a spectator
Followup-To: popcorn and hotdogs...
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:34:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.114007.1@iowa.physics.uiowa.edu> theisen@iowa.physics.uiowa.edu writes:
>
>
>AAAhhhiiieeeeeee!!!!!
>
>	I can't believe the people who wish to do all this stuff just
>to make ultimate a spectator sport
>	I asked my girlfriend who likes watching other pro sports and
>has seen several years of ultimate (including college nationals and
>open regionals) what ultimate needed, and she said  "Popcorn and hotdogs." 
>So there you have it!!!   You also need ten cameras, slow-motion
>to see the lay-outs, and dancing girls selling beer and cars every 10 min.
>	-When does the crowd roar? when some one scores at an important
>	 or does somthing athletic like jumps and launches after
>	 an object, ultimate has tons of this, there is plenty of action
>
>   [deleted]
>		just some opinions/   billy t/   iowa ultimate
>



I have to agree with Billy about the popcorn and hotdogs.  There have been
too many tournaments with no or overpriced food/snacks.  If you want
spectators, then give them a reason to stay in the sun for more than a game.  

And hey, is Iowa going to get an indoor winter thang going this year?

Afsheen





Organization: Doctoral student, Chemistry, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:17:39 -0500 
From: Jeffrey Hrkach <jh00+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Changing Ultimate into a spectator sport
	<Bz27Iv.8pq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>

Ben Fulton writes:

   Cons: 
   "players would get tired"
 
   So whup them into shape!  Start doing subs like in basketball, whenever
   there's a stoppage of play.  (In college bball, a TV timeout is taken
   at the first stoppage of play after 4,8,12, and 16 minutes.  Something
   similar, perhaps?)

Not only is subbing done at timeouts in hoops, but also at any whistle. 
A major problem that could arise is people making calls at a deliberate
time to stop a play and get their sub into the game.  For example, a
team turns the disc over and is mismatched with a short, slow guy
guarding the other teams best deep.  So, the marker calls a bogus
travel, play stops, and the d team brings in their stork to guard the
deep.  Now, of course, this could only happen in a sport that is not
governed by spirit of the game, so it could never happen in ultimate ;)

The main point is that a switch to this kind of system would require
referees and that sends us back to the great debate.

jeff
From: cbrunson@scilla.East.Sun.COM (Chuck Brunson - Sun BOS Corporate Software Engineering)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: Number of players
Date: 18 Dec 1992 17:31:21 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: cbrunson@scilla.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: scilla.east.sun.com

I usually try for 15-17. Thats enough to have full 7 on 7 practices. Its
a good number of people to have for tournaments although you probably want
to be closer to 17 if you're playing 3 or more games a day. Its a few too
many though for when you're only playing single games (like summer leagues)
but you can usually count on a few people not being able to attend for var-
ious reasons so that helps.

You also have to make judgements about the type of players you have. Some
people need to be in the game for a few points in a row in order to really
get into the flow while other people are better at going in for 1-2 points
at a time and playing really intense for just a short period. You have to
know who can do what in order to manage the team effectivly.
Thats just my $.02

---
UPA Masters Team: Red Menace		Chuckie B.
BACUL Team: 	  RADial ACTive 	Sun Microsystems/SunSoft Inc. BDS
Boston Area Corporate Ultimate League 	chuck.brunson@East.Sun.COM
 You're NEVER too old to play! 		Work Phn. (508)671-0527

From: terryh@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Terry Haynes)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:12:01 GMT
Subject: Re: Ultimate as a spectator
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc

John,

The assumption in the rules for ultimate is that no one will
intentionally break a rule.  Resumption of play after fouls
is trying to get things going again with out creating an
advantage for either side.  There have been few to no penalties
for fouls.

Terry (only play on my lunch hour (and a half))
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: lewisf@mencs.demon.co.uk (Lewis Foti)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Tournament Dates 
Distribution: world
Organization: Mentation Consultancy Services
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:02:05 +0000

If anyone is looking for a tournament in the U.K

January 16th/17th Godzilla Indoor Tournament. London, England
Contact Glyn Lewis +44/0 81 883 0218

----------------------------------------------------------------
- Lewis Foti                     -- magyar@cix.compulink.co.uk -
- Mentation Consultancy Services -- lewisf@mencs.demon.co.uk   -
----------------------------------------------------------------
- Mentation Consultancy Services (mencs.demon.co.uk) is in no  - 
- way associated with other systems in the demon.co.uk domain. -
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Eric.Simon@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Simon)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Changing Ultimate into a
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 08:17:22 -0500

JH>   So whup them into shape!  Start doing subs like in basketball, whenever
JH>   there's a stoppage of play.  (In college bball, a TV timeout is taken
JH>   at the first stoppage of play after 4,8,12, and 16 minutes.  Something
JH>   similar, perhaps?)

JH>Not only is subbing done at timeouts in hoops, but also at any whistle.
JH>A major problem that could arise is people making calls at a deliberate
JH>time to stop a play and get their sub into the game.

Hmmm, interesting.  Without speaking pro or con, I can fix up your idea.
Suppose that ONLY the opposite team that made the call can intiate subs.
I.e., if team A makes a call, team B can make subs.  Then, if B chooses
to, say, make two subs, A can make up to two subs (kinda like an injury,
where the injured person leaves and the other person then has a choice
of whether to sub or not).  Hmmmm, interesting.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Do not adjust your mind - the problem is with reality.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: singh@julius.cs.uiuc.edu (Rajendra Singh)
Subject: Re: a radical rule change proposal
Organization: University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:22:16 GMT

>>>>> On Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:59:52 GMT, tnt@netcom.com (Terry Turner) said:
|> i propose that we change the rules of ultimate so that it is the offending
|> party that makes the call.

I see at least two problems with this.
 1) SOTG is overrated.  Every game at a tournament is important and in
    the heat of the battle I just don't believe you'll see everyone
    willing to make calls on themselves.

 2) The person who is fouled is the most informed to make the call.
    Often the defender doesn't know for certain if he committed a foul
	(eg defender thinks "was that his hand I hit, or the disc"
	    thrower thinks "is that my hand that hurts, or is it the disc")

You can call fouls on yourself now anyways.

-raj
--
			  __ \_;
****- OM -****		 (  \
Rajendra Singh		    |
singh@cs.uiuc.edu	   /__/--\
			   \   @_/
			    |
			^.  /
			 `==
From: socolow@math.rutgers.edu (Paul Socolow @ Machine Ultimate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: a radical rule change proposal
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:40:53 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <TNT.92Dec16155952@netcom.com> tnt@netcom.com (Terry Turner) writes:

> i propose that we change the rules of ultimate so that it is the offending
> party that makes the call. 

This is a great idea, especially for those of us who are sick and
tired of playing against teams (and individuals) with little SOTG.
I can imagine the dialogue:
         "Foul!"
         "No it wasn't; you barely touched me"
         "You're sure?"
         "Yeah"
         "OK, play on!"
  I think this would be a dream come true for many of the more
spirited players around.
 
> i am hoping that this post will at least stimulate discussion which will
> lead to this idea being given a trial.

  I'm sure it will stimulate tons of discussion. I would think the
best way to begin would be to have a "Spirit Summer League" where
these rules are in effect (you could even make the teams random, to
reduce the gung-ho-ness even more). I'm not sure there are enough
people who would do this in a given area though, so your idea of an
experimental tournament might be a better option. 
  Anyone out there want to organize the "Ultimate Spirit Tournament"?
If it ever gets going, I bet it will soon become the most fun event
in Ultimate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RRRRRR    U     U       Paul Socolow, Rutgers Univ. Machine Ultimate
R     R   U     U       socolow@math.rutgers.edu
RRRRRR    U     U
R   R     U     Ultimate 
R    R     UUUUU  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: haman@mpr.ca (Anja Haman)
Subject: Number of players
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 01:38:28 GMT


I would like some opinions:

What is the optimal number of players to have on a team? (that's
a touring team, holding practices and taking the game fairly seriously).


anja
haman@mprgate.mpr.ca
From: tmarvan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Thomas Marvan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
Subject: Re: chicago.bears2
Date: 15 Dec 92 07:52:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <104589@bu.edu> scotty@bu.edu (walid tamari) writes:
>
>             The Chicago Bears do indeed find themselves..


I'm not quite sure what this is doing in here.  When I first read
the subject header, I was hoping that it may have been a comparative
essay on the struggling Chicago Bears with a struggling AFL side.

Alas, it had nothing to do with Aussie Rules.  So what is it doing
here....?




*******************************************************************
*  Thomas (Tom) Marvan         Phone: (619) 450 3670              *
*  Dept. of Political Science, E-Mail: tmarvan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu     *
*  University of California,   Snail Mail: 9450 Gilman Dr.,       *
*  San Diego,  USA.            #92092-0644, La Jolla, CA, 92092.  *
*******************************************************************

"There's so many different worlds, so many different suns,
And we have just one world, but we live in different ones..."
Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits singing "Brothers in Arms"


Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
From: mathers@sibelius.trl.OZ.AU (Steven Mathers)
Subject: Re: AFL News up to Friday 18/12/1992
Reply-To: s.mathers@trl.oz.au
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 23:03:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.131846.90842@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>, marino@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
|> The AFL News up to Friday 18/12/1992.
|> -------------------------------------
|> 
|>  Hello once again. There has not been much news this month but yesterday the
|> football world exploded onto the headlines again. Fitzroy is in deep financial
| As a personal note it looks like the AFL were expecting either a merger or the
| the death of a club this summer. They decreased the number of rounds to 22 but
 they left the price of membership tickets the same as in 1992 when teams played
| 11 home games and not 10. Also the death of a club would also see the death of
|> the bye and thus clubs could return to playing 22 games again.

I read in the age that the AFL will probably prop Fitzroy up for the 93
season because it is too late to change all the fixtures now etc..., and
eagerly let them die on cue for the addition of the Fremantle club in
94.  FFC, get it?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
From: drizzt@spock.uucp (Neela Jacques)
Subject: The Mighty Bombers
Organization: Choate Rosemary Hall
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:55:47 GMT

How,why and when did the Bombers move from Windy Hill to the MCG?
Who is the captain this year?
Is Anthony Danarhar still playing? Full Back?
Could someone E-mail me the full Bombers team.

Thanks!!!

P.S. I am an Australian from Mt. Waverley, Melbourne, Victoria but have been in the U.S. studying for a year.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
From: esquire@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Scott C. Kramer)
Subject: Re: chicago.bears2
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:11:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.134055.8596@newscan.canada.sun.com> ptaylor@airfarce.Canada.Sun.COM writes:
>
>In article 42575@sdcc12.ucsd.edu, tmarvan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Thomas Marvan) writes:
>>In article <104589@bu.edu> scotty@bu.edu (walid tamari) writes:
>>>
>>>             The Chicago Bears do indeed find themselves..
>>
>>I'm not quite sure what this is doing in here.  When I first read
>>the subject header, I was hoping that it may have been a comparative
>>essay on the struggling Chicago Bears with a struggling AFL side.
>>
>>Alas, it had nothing to do with Aussie Rules.  So what is it doing
>>here....?
>>
>
>Looks like a posting error by somebody who's now wondering why his
>post didn't show up in r.s.f.american !
 Well, I look at it this way...they wanted to promote American football
in Aussieland, so that way it would be fun...


>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>Peter K. Taylor			|| phone: (416) 477 - 6745  ext. 2302
>Sun Microsystems of Canada, Inc.|| fax:   (416) 477 - 9423
>Markham, ON, Can		|| email: ptaylor@airfarce.Canada.Sun.com
>--------------------------------||-----------------------------------------
>    Brisbane Bears in '93!  :^}	||    Keep yer stick on the ice, eh?
>	
>

 Scott C. Kramer
esquire@sage.cc.purdue.edu
From: leanne@DIALix.oz.au (Leanne Archer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
Subject: The end of Fitzroy???
Date: 16 Dec 1992 10:06:37 +0800
Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.dialix.oz.au
Summary: Gloom at Fitzroy
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #1


  Hello all,

        Just heard that Fitzroy may be closing. Any more news?????
 
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  |      _                                 Ms. Leanne Archer             |
  |    _//                                                               |
  |    /    _  __.  ____  ____  _       email: leanne@DIALix.oz.au       |
  |   /___ </_(_/|_/ / <_/ / <_</_                                       |
  ________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
Subject: Re: AFL News up to 8/12/1992
From: mudge@hfrd.dsto.gov.au
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:33:19 CST
Organization: High Frequency Radar Division - Defence Science and Technology Organisation

>Message-ID: <1992Dec8.232957.90791@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
>
>The AFL News up to Tuesday 8/12/1992.
>-------------------------------------
>
> - Hawthorn looks like Jonathon Robran will not come to Victoria in 1993. He
>   initially stated he would come but now he has changed his mind like his
>   brother.
>

This is crap.  I don't know what your sources are, but they've just shown
themselves to be unreliable.  As a close friend of both the Robran boys, I feel
I must stick up for Jon.  He never intended to cross the border in '93.  Right
from the day of the draft he has said this.  He has never said anything to the
contrary either - not to the press, and certainly not to me.  He wants to play
for Norwood for at least another year firstly for added experience, secondly to
add some bulk to his frame, and thirdly to finish his university degree. 
Believe me, when he goes to the Hawks (and he will eventually), he will stay
there.  Matthew had his own (legitimate) reasons for coming back to S.A., though
perhaps breaking his contract was the wrong way to do it, but Jon is completely
different - more determined and also a real Hawks fan from way back.

David Mudge
mudge@hfrd.dsto.gov.au