HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: misc.kids,alt.atheism
Subject: Lets just whack this off...
From: dayrton@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 23 Dec 92 12:10:40 EST
Followup-To: misc.kids,alt.atheism
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Dec22.203320.53231@watson.ibm.com>, strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom) writes:
> In article <1h7lh5INNdih@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>, potts@oit.itd.umich.edu (Paul Potts) writes:
> 
> |> but a rather personal thing. And so, my point of advocacy: don't
> |> perpetuate this rather bizarre practice, founded in a religious tradition
> |> and mostly unnecessary in a modern culture of cleanliness and reason.
> |> Sure, if there is some problem with the foreskin of your son, get it
> |> taken care of. But, as was pointed out, why routinely do something that
> |> only enriches the medical establishment? I certainly wish that I had


> Jewish circumcisions (which is where this thread originally started)
> are not performed by "the medical establishment".
> 
> The mohel who circumcized me did nothing but circumcisions;
> the mohel who circumcized my son did nothing but circumcisions.

Um, yes, but: the majority of circumcisions done in the USA are done by MDs,
without a sound medical reason for doing so.  


Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.men,alt.atheism,alt.sex.wizards
From: gdavis@griffin.uvm.edu (Gary Davis)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Distribution: default
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 15:21:34 GMT

In <ksand-271292172758@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik ) writes:

>I find it interesting to note that back in the Nordic countries, where
>health care is one of the major issues in society, nobody supports
>the idea of circumcision, unless you belong to a religious order/sect
>that has this tradition going on. Actually, if I would circumsize
>my child in Finland people would think that I'm a sadist :-). Anyway,
>my point is that aren't we really dealing with a tradition, and not
>a practical thing?

>Kent
>Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
>DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		

Kent,you have "hit the nail on the head". I knew it would take someone
from a non-circumcising culture to expose what all the so called
rational explanations are about! Just so much hot air! Americans like
to think of themselves as a religious,advanced scientific culture so
it is to be expected when something as pointless as circumcision is
challeneged they will leap to defend it with specious secular arguments.

Yes, the truth is that circumcision is NOT needed for health or social
acceptance.. except if you're in Israel. They circumcised every Russian
immigrant.. many of whom where obviously not Jewish.
But,then what in Isreal is logical?They last week refused the
Red Cross access to the displaced Moslems. (But I digress)
(Please no flames.. this is a statement of fact,not an anti-semetic
thrust)


--
            ******** Gary E. Davis***** WQ1F *****
 The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in the
 palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind.-H.L.Mencken
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory)
Subject: Re: Maternity lv and day care
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:10:26 GMT


So far the followups to this post (the ones I've seen) have all
suggested that leaving the older child in care, even a few days
a week, will make the older child feel rejected and unhappy.

Let me tell you about my friend who took her older boy out of
home-based care at age 3 when his younger sister was born, and
kept him out throughout her nine month leave. He was desparately
lonely. The baby was very demanding and wouldn't take a pacifier:
spent most of her time nursing. Again and again he was told that
they couldn't do something he wanted "because of the baby". I felt
so sorry for that little boy. He should have had at least one day
a week of his regular routine. Or his mother should have overcome
her shyness about nursing in public and taken him and his sister
to the park, library, playgroup, and so on.

Mind you, today that seven year old is a happy well adjusted little
boy who loves his sister. They have another sister now too,
about seven months old, and the now-three-year-old girl is enjoying
being home with mom and the baby and not doing much. So it may not
be such an important choice in the long run. Probably no matter
what you do about daycare your older will resent the baby at times
and grow up to love the baby anyway. I'd send the older a day
or two a week for continuity and so that I could get something
done during naps (like sleeping myself most likely) on those
days, and I'd pay close attention and be ready to make it more
days or less days depending on how the older was feeling. Ready
means among other things having the money in the bank set aside
to be able to pay for it. Since Beth's daycare is $24/day that's
not a trivial amount over a four month leave.

Kate
From: ellenb@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Ellen Boyle)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Daycare & being sick
Date: 22 Dec 1992 20:18:46 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: diva.berkeley.edu


As a Child Care Provider for over 8 years, I have found
that the spreading of illness is the number one drawback
of day care.  Even the highest-quality day care settings
have the same problem.  As a parent, it is the most
distressing problem - both from concern over your child's
health and the dilema of finding alternative care.  To
me, this is where the support of parents of young children
breaks down in this society.  If your child is ill, the
best possible solution is to stay home and care for him/her
until they are well.  But most parents don't have this
luxury so they either stress out finding emergency short
term care or have to take unpaid leave from work or, worse
yet, they have to send their kids to child care
even though they don't belong there ... then everyone
gets sick and on and on.  I know that many germs are
spread before symptoms arise so I certainly don't think
its possible to eradicate illness (especially colds)
from the day care setting, but I do think it could be
curtailed a great deal.  Besides there is nothing more
frustrating to a child care provider than having to
take care of sick children without the ability to
give them what they need - TLC, liquids, warm cozy
blankets, one-on-one reading and attention, quiet time, etc.

But even with all of this, I still think day care is
worth it.  I feel that the social interaction with
peers, the bonding relationship with the adult care
givers and the stimulation out weighs the negative
aspect of spreading illness.  However I am very
firmly in favor of part-time care, although am
sympathetic to people who must choose full-time care.

Ellen
From: mj7633@ireland.medtronic.com (Mark Jacoby)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Any Concensus on Waterbeds for Young Kids?
Date: 29 Dec 92 14:37:35 GMT
Organization: Medtronic, Inc., Minneapolis, MN


We are about ready to move our 21 month old daughter to a real bed,
probably for her 2nd birthday. 

We have a waterbed ourselves and had heard some positive things
about using them for children. We would like to get some info
on personal experiences and opinions. My biggest concern is
getting the temperature right, I know how tough it is to get
ours just right and she probably won't be able to let us know
if it's uncomfortable.

Email replies and I'll post a summary.

thanx,

mark jacoby

-- 
mark jacoby

mj7633@medtronic.com		612-574-8548
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: goldberg@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Patti Twigg)
Subject: tax deductions, (was Re: circumcision statistics)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:23:00 GMT

In article <RIGG.92Dec29095102@osnome.che.wisc.edu>, rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg) writes...
> 
>To add another data point, we are expecting any minute and think it
>will be a boy.  If so, he will not be circumsised.
> 
Hope you get your new little tax deduction before midnight Thursday!
8-) 8-) 8-)
                             Patti Twigg
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: tommy@boole.att.com (Tommy Reingold)
Subject: Re: Summary: Fine Art of Introducing Solids
Reply-To: tommy@boole.att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ, USA
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:29:08 GMT
Originator: tommy@hoodlum
Keywords: infant feeding

On the topic of prescribing which order in which to introduce foods, my
pediatrician pointed out that different cultures recommend different
orders.  For example, in the US, people recommend stuff like squash,
peas, and carrots for the first things after cereal.  He said that in
the Netherlands, they start with tomatoes.  He figures this difference
probably indicates that it just doesn't matter.  (Within reason of
course.  We fed Julia, age eleven months, some pasta with raw garlic,
olive oil and chopped tomato.  She loved the flavor, but her stomach
said no to the raw garlic.  She gave us the most spectacular vomit in
her whole little life.  I felt very guilty.)
-- 
Tommy Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy
From: kayvan@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Kayvan Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Protecting children in Public Schools
Date: 31 Dec 92 03:18:36 GMT
Organization: Sylvan Associates

Pardon me for saying this, but the devil made me do it. ;-)

Why don't you just write a letter saying that you don't want your
child exposed to any aspect of real life or any type of education
which might in any way resemble real life?

Sheesh...

			---Kayvan
-- 
| Kayvan Sylvan, Sylvan Associates, kayvan@satyr.Sylvan.COM, (408) 978-1407  |
| Consulting, Training, Development, SysAdmin, {BSD,SVr3,SVr4} Unix Systems  |
| "Think Globally, Act Locally." "Only you can make your dreams come true."  |
| Proud Dad of Katherine Yelena (born 8/8/89) & Robin Gregory (born 2/28/92) |
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Subject: Re: Stop Grabbing Your Penis!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:13:09 GMT

In article <4207@eastman.UUCP> majch@kodak.com (Kelly Majchrzak) writes:
>In article <BzM3rw.JAK@acsu.buffalo.edu>, oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
>
>This off the original subject, but does it really feel good at that age??  Do
>3 year olds really have feelings in "down there"??  My 2.5 yo daughter touches

Yes they do. Lots of little girls masturbate. The only problem is
getting them not to do it in public since they don't KNOW that
that's what they're doing. They only know it feels good. Think
about using somemore accurate terms than "down there" with your children.
From: ff@mtung.att.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Date: 21 Dec 1992 12:22:39 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

>In fact a lot of ignorant MDs still tell parents to
>force the foreskin back and clean.. clean... clean.. This is stuff
>from 1950s baby books!
	Well, it looks like my aunt was once prey to one of these MDs.  My
cousin is now 11 years old and he was not initially circumsized.  I remember
my aunt having to pull back the foreskin and cleaning the penis daily.  It
turns out that one time she did this and the penis got swollen and the
foreskin would not come back up.  The foreskin was then literally strangling
the penis and my cousin had to be rushed to the hospital where he was given
an emergency circumsicion.  Needless to say my aunt immediately circumsized
her second son.  I am personally in favor of circumsicion (in part due to
this event), but I understand there are pros and cons to both circumsicion
and "no circumsicion".  It is basically a personal choice and I don't think
either choice is better than the other.  


[story of friend's mother cleaning penis with a Q-tip deleted]
>Could it be the mother of your friend was disturbed? Was your friend 
>retarded? It sounds like one or the other must have been true.
	Not really.  After all you don't know the whole story.  Maybe the
kid had some sort of infection and the mother was just treating it.  After
all, he was ASSUMING that the Q-tips were being used due to no circumsion....
And then maybe it was due to having no circumsion.  There could still be
alot of explanations....for example:  1. her doctor told her to clean it
regularly with a Q-tip and she had no reason to doubt his/her credibility.
2.  Maybe the mother had a bad experience with an uncircumsized penis and
was just trying to make sure her child would not be one of those men that
would have to have a circumsicion later on in life.    I am not trying to
flame, but just pointing out that we can't be too quick to judge without
knowing all the facts.

Happy Holidays!

Frances
(first time mommy to baby due 5-13-93)
				^^Just had an ultrasound and was given this
				new date.  Let's see how accurate they really
				are when the time comes. :)




Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling)
Subject: Re: "my wife and I are pregnant", revisited
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 04:43:51 EST

In article <1174.9212171747@bonzo.xylogics.com> rollo@xylogics.com (Dena
Rollo) writes:

>But in fact, I'd bet that at least *some* of those men
>who talk about "babysitting" *are* in fact *babysitting* -
>that is, that they really do feel that they are just
>filling in for the primary caretaker. In those cases, what
>irks me is not the terminology, but the attitude.

If fools rush in where angels fear to go, then just call me stupid...

Dena, it could be that in many of those cases the men are *made to feel*
incompetant by the women who *feel threatened by the possibility that the
guy can "mother" just as well.*  I've read about relationships like this.
I've read about boys who were taught by their mothers that guys just weren't
capable of doing a good job with kids, so when they grew up and became
fathers, they naturally figured that when the wife wasn't around, they were
merely babysitting because everyone knew that men were poor substitutes for
the real thing.  In short, what I'm saying is that maybe it's not done with
malice aforethought on the part of the guys.

I'm not one of those guys, and my wife isn't one of those women, but YMMV.
And, for the record, this is one marriage where the guy is going to bear the
brunt of the kid work, since Cheryl works nights and sleeps days...guess
who'll be getting all the middle of the night feedings!  I must admit that I
also had to laugh when the instructor in our childbirth class urged the guys
to help out a little more around the house so that she wasn't doing
everything...in our house I'm the primary cook, housecleaner, dishwasher,
and a lot of other things that I do because I either have a very specific
way I like it done, or because we've each taken the tasks we enjoy most/hate
least.  I must admit that Cheryl has been good about helping with the dishes
lately.

But enough for now...I have about 90 more posts to read before I get to go
to bed.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Keith E Gatling                                  kgatling@mailbox.syr.edu *
*          Opinions?  I've got plenty of them.  Just ask my wife!           *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: nicklaus@lonetree.physics.wisc.edu (Dennis Nicklaus)
Subject: Re: Preventive Antibiotics
Organization: High Energy Physics
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 21:16:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.174824.9895@cbnews.cb.att.com>, klj@cbnews.cb.att.com (karen.l.carr) writes:
|> In article <29059@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst) writes:
|> > What have people's experiences been with preventive antibiotics?  Brad

|> Also, I would like people's opinions on tubes.  In particular, Alison's

|> 	Karen
Not to give anything which might sound like medical advice, but here's what
we did/are doing:
Liana had an awful ear infection (in both ears) which lasted from the
end of july until the first week of October sometimes.  Pain, drainage,
etc., (but not too much effect on the rest of her system like diarrhea).
We tried several different antibiotics and none did much.  I think
what finally helped somewhat was the new one whose name I forget, but
it is made by Lederle.
What also helped was going to the ENT doctor, getting the drainage vacuumed
off and then applying topical eardrop antibiotics, in combo with the
oral.  The ENT made some comment at the end that if that last hadn't
helped, they probably would have had to hospitalize Liana and put
her on IV antibiotics.  The thought of that still makes me shudder.
Anyway, so it was a bad one.
The ENT specialist we were referred to told us that in small infants
(Liana was born in March and probably weighed about 13-16 lbs
while this was going on) under 1 year old, it really wasn't worth
putting in the tubes.  He said it would be a more logical step to do 
if she were 1-2 yrs old.  I'm not completely sure of the reasons, but
maybe likelihood of them staying in place and the amount of growth going
on were part of his reasoning.
YMMV here of course, depending on the ENT.
ObHorrorStory: I took Liana for her first ENT visit where the Dr. gave
me the above reasoning about tubes.  My wife took Liana for the
2nd a couple days later, but it was with the ENT's partner 
because the first one wasn't available that day.  We thought that the 2nd
visit would just be the same:  vacuum out the draining stuff.
But the partner ENT came in (after examination) with surgery authorization 
papers for my wife to sign to insert tubes, which really threw my wife for a loop.
She called me to verify that we had agreed to NO tubes with the 1st ENT
and subsequently convinced the partner of that.  We were pretty shocked.
So it seems each Dr. will have his own theory. (And it would have
been nice if these ENTs had been able to at least present the illusion
of having talked about the case together.  We do still like the
first ENT, despite the experience.)


Anyway, since then, Liana has been on 1tsp of amoxicillin once/day
and hasn't had ear problems (tho she has a bad cold right now).
Both the ENT and our pediatrician recommended it since the 1st infection
was so bad, and we were more than willing to go along with it. Right
now we plan on sticking with it until the end of winter.
No bad effects from preventative antibiotics like yeast infection or anything.

Happy New Year!
Dennis
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 11:46:19 IST
From: <X42125@BARILVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.kids,sci.med
Subject: Ritalin

Please ecuse my english since this is
my first time posting.  My 10 year old
son has ben on Ritalin for 1 year now
(1 pill 2 times a day) and he has
been having lately violence attacks.
My doctor has told me to cut the doze
to half a pill since he said that at
the end of the pill - there are some
cases of violence.  I have heard of
other pills - Dexadrine, Cylert and
Tofranil - can any of these be used
to cut down random violent outbursts
and be used insted of Ritalin?

Any infomation on Ritalin would also
help.

Steve
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: barb@sq.sq.com (Barbara Burrows)
Subject: Christmas Tree Summary (Long)
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 20:36:21 GMT

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Subject: Re: Stop Grabbing Your Penis!
Reply-To: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:50:39 GMT

[Why did this have a NA distibution on it?]

Lib <lib@cbnews.cb.att.com> writes
> getting them not to do it in public since they don't KNOW that
> that's what they're doing.

A big problem with saying this and only this is parents end up teaching  
their children that they're doing something wrong.  Masturbation or  
genital exploration isn't incorrect behaviour, and very few posts on  
this thread stress this.

I would suggest teaching your children WHY it's not acceptable for  
people to do this in public (mainly that other people aren't that  
comfortable with seeing others touching their genitals and that this is  
termed a bad thing).  Simply telling them not to do something or to do  
something else instead while not giving a reason for the change of  
action can easily lead children to have more unanswered questions than  
they started with.

Teaching your children to the proper terminology 'penis', 'vagina',  
'scrotum', 'clitoris' and so on, instead of "down there" is another  
step toward letting your children know that their genitalia isn't  
inherently incorrect, bad, sinful or mysterious.
-- 
-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
-- NeXTmail welcome
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: angel@angel.UUCP (Angel's Spot)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Circumcision
Date: 28 Dec 92 00:21:35 GMT
Organization: Angel's Retreat - San Antonio, Texas

From article <199212231420.AA28162@tuna.wang.com>, by JUTTA.LAGE@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Jutta Lage"):
> This subject is coming up right on time since our baby is due in 7 weeks and
> we were just the other day discussing circumcision in case we are having a boy.
> Now reading all these messages and comments about this subject on the net
> (some of them are actually turning out to be real little arguments...) I can
> tell that it still carries the same pros and cons none of them making a real im
> pact on the necessaty of this operation. It is  however interesting how men
> defend it..... I suppose I will let nature be nature....and will teach my son
> the appropriate hygene...

GOOD FOR YOU!   I have two boys and they have not been circumcised.  My ob
gave me literature on the pros and cons of having them circumcised, and after
reading that the proceedure was somewhat painful for the child, I decided not
to have my son go through it.  I remember on the pro side of not having it 
done, was there was less chance of an infection on the penis.  

I have taught both my boys the proper was to clean themselves, and watched 
them until they were old enough to do it properly.  They are now 7 and 5.
To them cleaning their penis is part of taking a bath.

I could not see making a baby cry just to have something like that done to
them.

Good luck on your newborn.
From: BIOSEE@UKCC.UKY.EDU (Stephanie Edelmann)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: ultrasound
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:21:54 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky

In article <1992Dec18.033123.9166@dsd.es.com>
ksouth@iguana.dsd.es.com (Kerri South) writes:
 
>
>I understand that having an ultrasound done at around 20 weeks is almost
>"standard of care". That's still 7 weeks away, but my husband and I will
>have to make the decision about whether to have one or not. I would like
>some input.
>{stuff deleted}
>
>So, was an ultrsound really so great? What are the main reasons OBs or
>midwives prescribe them? Is there really any NEED for one in a normal, low-risk
>pregnancy?
>
>--
>Kerri South, Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
>Design Systems Division, P.O. Box 8070,
>Salt Lake City, Utah 84108        (801) 582-5847
>INET: ksouth@dsd.es.com
 
I'd have one even though there is probably no need to have one.  It was
the biggest thrill when I saw my 13 week old daughter doing summersaults (sp?)
in there.  Especially at this young age you can see the whole baby as it
moves around, not just a faint hand or head.  It's just plain neat.
 
Also, I'd definitely bring a videotape. My Doctor forgot to tell me to
bring one and I was soooo disappointed when I found out that I could have
taped it.
 
Stephanie