From: agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Anthony Rose; answering ----------->   Gordon
Date: 15 Dec 92 07:01:57 GMT
Reply-To: agr00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <17804@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:

>First, you didn't quote but a tiny snippet of the King Follett Discourse,
>not the "whole speach <sic>".  I consider it a wonderful speech, and
>value it beyond any of Paul's Epistles for theology, if you really
>want to know what I think!  If you want to type it in, we can deal
>with it.  It wasn't on the Trinity, but on the fact that God and
>man are the same kind and species.  That is a more radical idea
>than you have been criticizing anyhow, is it not?

Yes, radical, and HERETICAL!  Nowhere does the Bible even entertain the
thought that man and God are the same kind of species.  It testifies
exactly the opposite!

>>Gordon, when I get a letter like this one you have answered with, I can
>>see that you cannot deal with these matters.  From here you can do two
>>things.  You can ignore them and write them off, as you seem to be doing,
>>or you can accept them for what they are, turn to the True Jesus Christ
>>and accept Him as you personal Savior.  He then will show you the Truth.
>
>Again, I find you incredibly arrogant and presumptuous.  Let me turn
>that around and say "Tony, you can quit your false beliefs are turn
>to the True Jesus Christ and accept Him as your personal Savior."
>And what do you say to that?  And where does this get us?  Sheesh!

I agree, gets us nowhere. Just where you want it to get us.  Because you
are frightened where we might get if we discuss relavent issues instead of
you attacking my character and me defending it.

>>This is the choice that you have to make now Gordon.  Other Mormons have
>>faced the truth of these things and have accepted Jesus as their
>>personal Savior.  Today they KNOW that they are saved! That is one thing
>>that you can't say as a Mormon.  
>
>I'm afraid you just don't speak my language, Tony.  First of all,
>Mormons believe in a universal salvation where only a tiny few
>are not saved.

When I talk about being saved, I am talking about spending eternity in
the presence of God.  You do not believe that all but a few will do that.
Your universal salvation is the same as resurrection and only gets
Mormons in good standing to the position of spending eternity with God.

Everyone else gets one of the other two "kingdoms", but God is only in
the Heaven where Mormons who have been married in the temple will spend
eternity.  Therefore, when I speak of "saved" I am taking about what you
would consider "celestial kingdom".  And isn't it true that non-Mormons
are the only ones that will get there?  Therefore, you can't say that
you believe everyone is saved in the sense that most will spend eternity
in the presence of God. Only married Mormons will do that.

>Second, my interest in religion has nothing to do
>with my wanting to be saved.  I know you probably find this almost
>incredible to believe from your perspective, but it is really
>true.

I believe that more than you know.  I know many Mormons who are not
interested in know Truth, they are in the church for social reasons
only.  I respect them telling me so.

>Third, I do accept the atonement of the
>Savior most readily.  But I find it somewhat offensive that you think that
>someone could reach out to Jesus, accept his atonement, and 
>be rejected because of some theological error in their belief
>about His nature.  I really don't think Jesus was the kind of
>person who would insist upon rigorous correctness of belief of
>those who ask him for help.  I'm sorry you do.  Fortunately,
>I am as certain as can be that you are wrong, so those you so
>readily would send to hell need fear nothing.

If you reach out to the wrong Jesus, the real one will have no mercy on
you.

>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
>geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tony
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc