HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Surensoy Efendi
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:03:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.225922.28771@cbfsb.cb.att.com> enis@cbnewsg.cb.att.com 
(enis.surensoy) [AKA Surensoy Efendi] responded to article <43368@sdcc12.ucsd.
edu>, by hminassi@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Eh bien continuons.):

[Eh bien] Parev gam Barev!
[Eh bien]  
[Eh bien]  There will be a meeting on IRC this
[Eh bien]  wednesday, 1/13/93 at 7p.m. Pacific
[Eh bien]  time (west coast time) on channel
[Eh bien]  #Hayastan.
[Eh bien]  
[Eh bien]  Looking forward to seeing you there.
[Eh bien] 
[Eh bien] H. Minassian

[Efendi] This is Soc.Culture.Turkish; definitely NOT Soc.Culture.Armenian.
[Efendi] Go establish your own net to advertise meetings to make up anti
[Efendi] Turkish hate propaganda.

You are still so blinded by your fascism that you fail to see that there is no 
worse enemy of Turkey on UseNet than the Cosar-Argic-Mutlu team of fools. 

With the C-A-M team who needs anti-Turkish propaganda!

 
-- 
David Davidian <dbd@urartu.sdpa.org>  | "Who, after all, speaks today of the 
S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies  |  annihilation of the Armenians?" 
P.O. Box 382761                       |         -Adolf Hitler, August 25, 1939
Cambridge, MA 02238                   |          from: Nuremberg Document L-3 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: purwinto@rodan.acs.syr.EDU ()
Subject: PEACE: To whom it may concern
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 21:04:37 EST


-----start of forwarded msg

Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 01:36:40 EST
Reply-To: CFE Graduate Student List <CFEGRAD@SUVM.SYR.EDU>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was CFELIST@SUVM
From: FKELLE@SUVM.SYR.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list CFEGRAD <CFEGRAD@SUVM.SYR.EDU>

Some of you may be interested, so I thought I would send this along to
the crowd and hope to catch a few possible participants.  Peace, I think
that's what this is about, Fay
_____________________________________________________________________________

To all supporters of peace and justice in former Yugoslavia:

Action for Peace in the Balkans, a multiethnic, San Francisco Bay
Area-based peace group, has organized a nationwide telegram hotline to
President Bill Clinton, urging him to seek a peaceful solution to this
conflict. The telegram reads:

"I oppose military intervention or lifting the arms embargo in the civil war 
in former Yugoslavia.  Such action will fuel the fighting, prolong civilian 
suffering, and lead to an even wider conflict in the region. Exercise 
evenhanded diplomacy and pressure the three warring sides in Bosnia and 
Hercegovina to negotiate a mutually acceptable political solution."

The procedure for using the hotline is as follows:

1. Call (800) 372-2626 (Western Union, Telegram Hotlines)

2. Ask for hotline no. 9337; it will be identified as "Peace in the
Balkans"; the recepient and begining of text will be confirmed (full text
also read on demand; however, note that within this hotline the text is not
alterable)

3. You will be asked for a name and address of the sender, as well as your
home phone number; a $6.95 charge will appear on your next telephone bill
(however, you can call from any phone)

4. You may (optionally) provide your name and address to the organizers.


We urge you to take part in and advertise broadly this action, which will
be taking place for a limited time after inauguration. Our new
administration's policy on this issue has apparently not been set yet, but
defining it is its highest foreign policy priority. This is why it is of
paramount importance to immediately  let them know that military
intervention is *not* a viable option. This message must be sent in a
clear, visible and organized way, and this action serves that purpose.
Certainly, other means of voicing your opinion on the subject remain
equally important as before. But we ask you to take this action seriously,
since only many thousands of telegrams can make a difference.


ACTION FOR PEACE IN THE BALKANS

-------end of forwarded msg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: an7814@anon.penet.fi
Subject: No Subject
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.culture.turkish
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:01:50 GMT

x-anon-to:soc.culture.turkish

hello it is just a test,sonra gorusmek uzere|
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Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:14990 talk.politics.mideast:26261 talk.politics.soviet:10723
From: kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Tell Us Mr. Ozguven
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:47:43 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In <1993Jan22.135607.11375@urartu.sdpa.org> dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) writes:

>In article <kutluk.727461626@ccl.umist.ac.uk> kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk 
>Ozguven) responded to article <1993Jan13.011839.13170@urartu.sdpa.org> dbd@
>urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) who wrote: 

>[DD] For one who professes a heritage of parents & grandparents who killed
>[DD] Serbs as NAZI surrogates, I find your foolish outburst rather self-
>[DD] exposing. Yes, the NAZIS and their surrogates learned well from your 
>[DD] brother Turks who exterminated 1.5 million Armenians in Turkey during WWI.

>[KO] Now, we have to decide how many. 300,000 (the number of the
>[KO] perished from disease and hunger just as the Turks), 750,000 (population 
>[KO] of Armenians at that time), 1,000,000 (a handy truncation), 1,500,000
>[KO] (Davidian number in this posting but changes in every one), 2,000,000 (the
>[KO] Napoleon-concious correspondent's number - see the article), 
>[KO] 3,000,000 (people also say), ...  

>It is almost not worth another refutation of such creative demographics,

Then you shouldn't have  carefully removed the conflict between the 2
million and the 1,5 million. You see 500,000 human beings may not be
important for Armenian extremism, it is for the rest of us. Such
floating point carelessness is a sign of the strength of Armenian side of
the disagreement.

>however, I will respond by asking you to translate into English (since you are 
>in England) 

Should we laugh at this poor and rather primitive joke ? When will
your sense of humour  match your lust for unscholarly quotations ?  

>You see Kutluk, my Turkish is quite poor, but you -- who has the courage to
>revise the history of the Armenian people in front of thousands who read your
>crap -- should be man enough to translate this simple title into proper English
>so the rest of us will not get the wrong impression of you!

I don't have as high an opinion for my *articles* as you do, thousands
is beyond my imagination. After all, my original intention was to
point out the incoherence, and ridicule the weak arguments of the
meaningless Davidian production. I have achieved that. "Man enough" ? 
I have, I am afraid, no intention to translate some Marxist
anti-Turkish documents on a laughable call for macho-fight; if I had 
sufficient time for trans-Caucasus I would go and write more about 
the blood your organization continues to spill.

Kutluk
From: spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Anonim Tosun'lar!
Keywords: na
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:15:05 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

In article <2396@blue.cis.pitt.edu> vhast@cislabs.pitt.edu (Veli Hakkoymaz) writes:
|In article <1993Jan22215745.AA18879@helena.stat.uga.edu> rlm2s@helena.stat.uga.edu (Ramazan Hatipoglu) writes:
|>Beyler,bayanlar;
|>Belki de bunlari Hakki kendisi yaziyordur, kendisini mazlum duruma dusurup,
|>kredi saglamak icin.Zira anladigim kadari ile buna siddetle ihtiyaci var.
|>
|>Ramazan
|
|Uzun yazilari cok dikkatli okumuyorum fakat Hakki Beyin bahsettigi
|din, millet, ulus kavramlarinin kendisinin tarifine uygun anlamlara
|geldigini, yani bizim normal kullandigimizdan farkli anlamlari oldugunu
|Arastirici-Gazeteci olarak kendisini lanse eden Ugur Mumcu Bey de 
|dile getirmis bir yazisinda Aralik-Ocak aylarinda yazdigi. Saniyorum
|o kavramlarin ne anlama geldigini bir kez daha okusak fena olmayacak...
|Sonra cahil kalmayalim...
|
|Veli,

Veli bey karde$im,
Cok haklisiniz burada. Acizane netteki butun inanan insanlara tavsiyem
ba$ta kendim olmak uzere bazi kisir tarti$malar yerine kelimeleri ve ne
anlama geldiklerini muslumanlar olarak, Allah'in ve Rasulunun nasil
kullandigini bilhassa Kur'an da nasil kullanildigini ogrenmek zorunda
oldugumuzdur. Maalesef bircok musluman kavramlar konusunda yeterince
bilgi sahibi degil. Birkac gun once millet kavraminin kullanimi
konusunda me$hur Turk irkciliginin onderlerinden Z.Gokalp ten okumu$tum.
Orada Z.Gokalp millet kavraminin aslinin kabul edilemeyecegini cunku
manada Hakki abinin dedigine paralel anlamlar ta$idigini soyluyor. Ve bu
kelimenin ulus denilen kavram yerine anla$ilmasi gerektigini ifade
ediyor. Ziya Gokalp ki ' gonder bize (Turk ulusuna) ayri bir yalvac
(peygamber)' diye ifadelere sahip birisi. M.Akif Ersoy ve daha nice
insanlar millet kavramini Kur'an daki manasiyla anlami$ ve
kullanmi$lardir. Bu sadece bu kelimede degil her kelime ve kavram
konusunda ayni. $ahsen Hakki abinin akil, din, millet, $eytan ve
$eyatiin, 'will-Sha' kelimelerinin gectigi butun ayet-i kerimelerin
numaralarini verdigi (Allah kendisinden razi olsun) yerlerin hepsini
inceledim. Inandim diyen insanlar olarak vazifemiz hakikaten kavramlari
iyi anlamak. Ornegin Kur'an da din kelimesinin kullanili$ini, diger
kelimelerle olan ili$kisini anlayabilse butun muslumanlar nette
tarti$ilan bircok meselenin tarti$ilmasina hic gerek kalmaz. Allah'in
dininin ne oldugunu Allah'in kitabinda bu dini nasil kullandigini
ogrenen insan kendisine Allah'in dini diye insanlarca dayatmaya
cali$ilan dini kolaylikla Allah'in dininden ayirabilir. 

Uzun yazidan dolayi affiniza siginarak...

Muhabbetlerimle
Beytullah
From: emremsia@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Emre Erkut)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: AMERIKADA TERORIST EGITIM KAMPLARI
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:20:39 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <01GTYEFZENTU0000EP@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU> RCIRIT%DENVER@VAXF.Colorado.EDU (REMZI CIRIT) writes:
>alinmistir. Sonrada bir Arab gazetesinde yayinlanmistir.
			 ^^^^
Bunun Turkce'si "Arap"tir, "Arab" degil. 
-- 
Emre Erkut                                      You can murder people 
Krannert, Purdue                                but you can never 
Turkish Education Foundation 1992 Scholar       murder ideas. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: an7793@anon.penet.fi
Subject: No Subject
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.culture.turkish
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:40:04 GMT

Political T.V. commercials prove one thing: some candidates can tell
all their good points and qualifications in just 30 seconds.
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: mucit@cs.rochester.edu (Bulent Murtezaoglu)
Subject: Re: RE:RE:SEYTAN AYETLERI VE KUR'AN-2
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Rochester
	<MUCIT.93Jan19201714@slate.cs.rochester.edu>
	<4936.9301211952@thor.cf.ac.uk>
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:26:06

In article <4936.9301211952@thor.cf.ac.uk> speeo@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr Ercan Otemel 92) writes:
>   In article <MUCIT.93Jan19201714@slate.cs.rochester.edu> mucit@cs.rochester.edu (Bulent Murtezaoglu) writes:
>   |In article <01GTPDXHF0FM00005J@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU> RCIRIT%DENVER@VAXF.Colorado.EDU (REMZI CIRIT) writes:
>   |[buralari sildim]
>|>
>|>   Islamda Kur'an ve hadisligi ispatlamis aktarmalarin hic birini atamazsin.
>|>   Kur'an ve Hadis den secme hakkin yokdur. Ama delili saglam olmayan hadisler
>|>   ile Tefsirlerin soylediklerinde secme hakkim, yokdur. Ben yas konusunda
>|>   baska kitablarda bunun 9 ile 14 yas arasinda degistigini soyledim. ve yas
>|>   isterse  5 olsun benim icin farketmez dedim. 
>|
>|!?  Dil surcmesi bu herhalde?  Akli basinda insanlar, 5 yasinda cocukla
>|evlenen insanin her tarafindan nur fiskirsa bile Allah'in peygamberi
>|olduguna inanmazlar.  Sunu bir duzeltiverseniz diyorum.
>|
>
>   Hz. Muhammed (SAV) in peygamberligi bugun milyarlarca insan
>   tarafindan kabul edilmistir. Ancak INANMAYAN KIBIR sahibi
>   zindiklar boyle islerle ugrasir ve insanlarin midelerini
>   bulandirmaya calisirlar. Fakat nafile.....     

Anlamadim.  Adamin biri cikip 5 yasinda cocugu seyetmis olsa bile
benim icin farketmez diyecek, "yok herhalde dilin surctu" deyince
ben "INANMAYAN KIBIR sahibi zindik" olacagim?  Herhalde boyle demek
istemiyorsunuz.  O zaman ne demek istediginizi bir zahmet anlatabilir 
misiniz?

>   "Sizler ve taptiginiz $eyler cehenneme girecek kimseden
>   baskasini ALLAH'a karsi azdirip saptiramazsiniz..."
>   (Saffat suresi 161,162,163. ayetleri)

Cok guzel -- alakasi ne?

>   Iyi calismalar
>
>   Ercan

size de

BM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Anonim Tosun'lar!  
From: Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hakki Kocabas)
Date: 24 Jan 93 12:02:31 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

  
> Belki de bunlari Hakki kendisi yaziyordur, kendisini mazlum duruma dusurup, 
> kredi saglamak icin.Zira anladigim kadari ile buna siddetle ihtiyaci var.  
  
Hakki Kocabas krediyle is gormuyor, avansla is goruyor, sirtini da  
saglam bir kapitale yaslamis...Hakki Kocabas saglam bir kulpa yapismistir...  
boyle g*tten esintilerle yerinden oynamaz...  
Buraya gonderilen bir mesajin Hakki Kocabas'a mi ait oldugunu ayirtetmekten  
aciz sizler, hangi kitabin Allah'a ait olmadigini nasil saptayabilirsiniz ?  
Akletmiyecek misiniz ?  
  
> Ramazan  
>
From: Guven.Guzeldere%STANFORD.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (hq.ggg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Members with returned messages
Date: 28 Jan 1993 00:32:22 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: Turkish Cultural Program List <TRKNWS-L%USCVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

del trknws-l 76550.1502@*
del trknws-l technet!eron@*

Members with addresses written above are being taken off
the trknws-l list. News sent to their addresses are being
returned

trknws-l

To:  TRKNWS-L@USCVM
From: kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: basketbol haberleri (Efes'in baSarIsI)
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:19:44 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

AlInan habelere gOre:

--------------------- cut here ----------------------
   Efes Pilsen Litvanya nin Riga takimini Istanbul da 16 sayi farkla
yenerek yari finale bir adim daha yaklasti. Efes in grupta birinci olmasi
finale cikmasi icin daha buyuk avantaj, cunku obur gruptan tass gibi Aris
namaglup geliyor, ikinci takim ise daha zayifca olan Sirp takimi...
--------------------- cut here -----------------------
From: mucit@cs.rochester.edu (Bulent Murtezaoglu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: RE:RE;RE:SEYTAN AYETLERI VE KUR'AN-2
Date: 22 Jan 93 06:36:38 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Rochester

In article <01GTSHC8RVIQ003NZ9@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU> RCIRIT%DENVER@VAXF.Colorado.EDU (REMZI CIRIT) writes:

   n article <4936.9301211952@thor.cf.ac.uk> speeo@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr Ercan Otemel
   92) writes:
   >   In article <MUCIT.93Jan19201714@slate.cs.rochester.edu> mucit@cs.rochester.e
   du (Bulent Murtezaoglu) writes:
   >   |In article <01GTPDXHF0FM00005J@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU> RCIRIT%DENVER@VAXF.Colora
   do.EDU (REMZI CIRIT) writes:
   >   |[buralari sildim]
   >|>
   >|>   Islamda Kur'an ve hadisligi ispatlamis aktarmalarin hic birini atamazsin.
   >|>   Kur'an ve Hadis den secme hakkin yokdur. Ama delili saglam olmayan hadisle
   r
   >|>   ile Tefsirlerin soylediklerinde secme hakkim, yokdur. Ben yas konusunda
   >|>   baska kitablarda bunun 9 ile 14 yas arasinda degistigini soyledim. ve yas
   >|>   isterse  5 olsun benim icin farketmez dedim.

> BOYLE AYRINTILARLA ugrasip, ayrintilarin icinde kaybolmak istemedigimden
> birde, delillerimiz getirdik ve konuyu tartismak artik istemiyordum. Allah'in
> resulunun 5 yasindaki biri ile evlenmesi elbette zaten ilahi mesaj uymazdi. 

Tamam Remzi bey sildiginizi belirtmeden sildiginiz yerde bende zaten
oyle demistim.  Herhalde diliniz surctu dedim, "evet galiba oyle oldu"
yahut ona benzer makul birsey demek yerine tutup:

> parcalar halinde olayi ele aldigimiz zaman sistem teoricilerinin bir, lafi
> vardir parcalarin toplami butun degildir diye. Butun parcalar arasindaki
>baglantilar ile bir butundur. harsey contexti icinde genelde anlamini kazanir.
>Parcaciklar ile ugrasip butunu yakalayamam durumuna dusmek istemem. Birak
>ayrintilar icinde kaybolmak isteyenler kaybolsun gitsin. ercan ve Hamid beyler
>haklilar .
>Siz muslumnalar olarak Allah resulunde boyle sey beklermisiniz de, oturup
>onunla ugrsacam.
>
>   Remzi Cirit


diyorsunuz.  Ustelik yukaride benim ismim geciyor, ne dedigim belli degil.
Birazcik daha dikkatli olmak "deliller" vs.'ye aykiri mi?  Her ne hal ise.
Ercan beyin nerede hakli oldugunu anlamis degilim.  Ben dedim ki bes
yasinda cocukla evlenen adam Allah'in peygamberiyim diye ortaya cikarsa
biraz zor inandirici olur.  Ercan beyde tuttu "zindik" "inancsiz" vs.
gibi kime hitap ettigi pek belli olmayan ama buyuk ihtimalle benim icin 
soylenmis laflar yazdi.  Simdi siz yukarda ayni seyi soyluyorsunuz, herhalde 
size de "zindik"li bir cevap gelmesi gerekir Ercan beyden?  

BM
From: fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: NPR: Bosnia Faces Aggression now from Croats
Date: 26 Jan 1993 07:46:23 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu

In article <9301242114@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:
>In article <C19t2s.Hru@apollo.hp.com> goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes:
>
>>    Waffen SS incorporated numerous ethnic "divisions", does this
>>    mean it was a pluralistic institution?
>
>Coming from a racist x-Soviet "wieneramus" who would label Muslim/Azeri 
>people as "animals", this is rather amusing.

The following is taken from John Keegan, _Six Armies in Normandy:
From D-Day to the Liberation of Paris_; Harmondsworth: Penguin
Books, 1983, page 74.

	Moreover, several of the German battalions were not
	German at all in composition, but manned by more-or-less
	willing volunteers from the army of prisoners whom the
	Germans had taken in the east during 1941-2. They were
	indeed known as East (_Ost_) Battalions, for to have
	called them Russian would have been inaccurate. They
	represented for the most part the peripheral and 
	unassimilated peoples of the Russian empire, Cossacks,
	Georgians, Turkomen, Armenians, Volga Tartars, and
	Azerbaijanis, who had swapped a tenuous sense of citizenship
	for the guarantee of regular meals, and might be expected
	to waver in their new loyalty if pressed to fight for
	their suppers.



>
>Turkiye's territorial integrity is not negotiable. There are separatists 
>in Corsica and in the Pyrenees, but the territorial integrity of France 
>or Spain is not negotiable. Anyone who does not want to live in the 
>Republic of Turkiye is free to emigrate, but Turkiye cannot be broken up
>to accommodate the KGB that wants to build, of all things, a Marxist 
>state for the Kurds. Not a chance.

A Marxist state for the Kurds? The KGB?


>
>Right from the outset certain things must be made clear to everyone.
>Turkiye's territorial integrity is not negotiable. If some day the

Alexandretta?




-- 
Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;                      
She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: an7793@anon.penet.fi
Subject: No Subject
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.culture.turkish
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 10:40:02 GMT

Interpreter, n.:
	One who enables two persons of different languages to
understand each other by repeating to each what it would have been to
the interpreter's advantage for the other to have said.
		-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: 00mlschmalz@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Constantinople
Date: 22 Jan 93 09:03:24 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

Hello.

I am a history student at Ball State University, Muncie Indiana, and 
I'm looking for some relatively obscure information on the 
city of Constantinople amd its environs.  This information would 
ideally center on two facets of life: 1) the beliefs, legends, folk 
tales, mysticism, and such of the inhabitants of that region in the 
esrly 13th century, and 2) what the Franks of the Fourth Crusade did 
to the city.

All I can find on #1 is a reference to a book which a professor has 
checked out for the year - I can't find anything at the public library 
on this.  On #2, all I see are things like:  "Well, there was stuff 
here before the Franks, and it was gone afterwards, so they probably 
took it."  There seems to be a tremendous gap (like 250 years) but 
I am in the midwestern USA, which probably explains the apparent
scarcity of information on Constantinople, et al....

...anyway, I figure this is a great place to get a reference list 
for these topics, so I come to you asking for your help.  If you can 
send me references to books, documents, maps, ANYTHING that might help 
me with this research, I would greatly appreciate it.

I will check this board for about two weeks, so postings will work if 
you believe others would like this information.

Thanks in advance,

----
   Sparky!!
   marc@bsu-cs.bsu.edu
   00mlschmalz@virgo.bsuvc.bsu.edu  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish