HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ajpg1322@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Angelo J. Paguia)
Subject: Ecumenism theology interpreters needed
Summary: OSV article: Interpreters needed
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:21:10 GMT
Keywords: Ecumenism theology interpreters needed

The following appeared on the 1/24/93 issue of Our Sunday Visitor.
I thought that people in the newsgroup might be interested to answer
the call:
______________________________________________________________________
INTERPRETERS NEEDED

   One of the nation's leading Catholic ecumenists said a pool of 
"specialized writers" could help the laity better understand
developments in the Christian unity movement as they continue to
occur.
   Father John F. Hotchkin, executive director of the bishop's 
Committee for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, conceded that
highly complicated and technical ecumenical developments often do
not trickle down into the pews.
   Very simply, most developments are too complicated for many
writers to handle properly.
   Are there specialized writers in the religious and secular 
media who could do it ? There are writers who make scientific and
medical and other very complicated subjects readable without
watering them down. Would it not help to establish a stable of
such writers to get the word out ?
   "It would be a great idea, but no one has proposed it yet,"
Father Hotchkin agreed. "Now, these writers would have to be able
to take talks between biblical scholars and theologians and present
them in a way that would attract and inform the average reader 
without oversimplifying the matter.
   "The reader would have to feel he or she is being reliably informed
and not just reading a boiled-down version of an ecumenical discussion
that is made more simple than it really is."
   Father Hotchkin said he receives numerous calls from bishops and
pastors asking for study guides and study materials that are a little 
bit easier for the average reader to understand than the original
research papers that are published
---Robert Holton
______________________________________________________________________
So, what about it gang ? Any takers ? 
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:49:02 EST
From:         "Donald J. Magee" <djm@TRENT.ATT.COM>
Subject:      Re: directions
              "RASCH@C-H.BWH.HARVARD.EDU" at Jan 26, 93 1:16 pm

>
> As the dragons flew away, N.O. Monaghan" <monaghan@DCS.GLA.AC.UK>
> was heard to whisper
>
> > I wonder if anyone else has noticed that it is perhaps those churches
> > and seminaries which are doing least to adapt to the modern world (by
> > that I mean, doing least to change fundamental beliefs, principles,
> > social outlooks and so on) which are the most flourishing.
>
> On the other hand, one could also argue that giving people a chance to
> engage in denial about the real world by isolating themselves from any-
> thing that engages them with the complexity and discomfort and ambiguity
> that's out there in the modern world indeed may well be popular.  So are
> pain-killing drugs.  People may well feel better by being sealed off from
> conflict, but I don't think it ultimately does them, or the world, any
> good.
>
> Joan Rasch   rasch@c-h.bwh.harvard.edu    FidoNet  jrasch@1:101/230
>

If a person enters the seminary to escape, he is in for a rude
awakening when the bishop sends him into the world in 5 years.

BTW, in the Arch. of NY, seminarians spend every summer in parish
work.

Don Magee
trent!djm@jolt.att.com
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From: norris@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Chonak)
Subject: Re:      RE: Why is it?
Reply-To: norris@mit.edu
Organization: l'organisation, c'est moi
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:13:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.014021.23725@mlb.semi.harris.com>, bath@dw3f.ess.harris.com (Kenneth Bath) writes:
|> |>
|> |>>3.  In the Liturgy of the Hours, is an "(alleluia)" to be excluded during
|> |>>Lent, or added during Eastertime?

He continues:
|> 
|> I still don't understand when the "alleluia" is optional.  For example, the
|> Hours are introduced with the doxology, "Glory to the Father and to the
|> Son and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and will
|> be forever.  (alleluia)".  Is this "alleluia" excluded during Lent, or added
|> during Eastertime?  (In other words, do we say the alleluia during
|> Ordinary Time or Advent?)  I could cite other examples where the
|> "alleluia" is in "( )".
|> 
|> Again... not an earth shaking problem; I'm just curious about the notation.
|> 
|> Ken Bath

I think the alleluia you mention (at the start of certain hours) is for
all the year but Lent.  In the old office, it was replaced during Lent
with "Laus tibi Christe, Rex aeternae gloriae" (Praise to you, O
Christ, King of eternal glory.)

But I suspect that not all the alleluias behave this way.
  
A friend tells me that in some monastic houses there was a tradition of
taking a wooden "alleluia" out of the chapel woodwork on Shrove
Tuesday, and mounting it in a hoop, so that an altar boy would roll it
out of the church with a stick.

---
Richard Aquinas Chonak, norris@mit.edu, Usenet addict, INTP
250,000 marched for life in DC on Jan 22!
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:21:26 PST
From:         "Greg Wolff, MISG, ICS::,
              MSO1-1/J50 25-Jan-1993 0958" <wolff@ICS.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      condemnation of homosexual acts is necessary...

    "Angelo J. Paguia" <ajpg1322@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU> wrote a nice open letter
    of apology to the list about some postings on the topic of homosexual
    acts.  He states positions that are in keeping with the teachings of
    the Church [homosexual ACTS & heterosexual ACTS OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE are
    wrong and not to be done].

    He also states:
>I considered the demand for condemnation of such homosexual acts as
>mindless chatter, however, for the following reasons:

>1. If a person is a practicing Christian, then he/she knows what is
>wrong or right.

    Unfortunately, this turns out not to be the case.  There are many
    practicing Catholics who believe that homosexual acts are not
    intrinsically evil in and of themselves and it is ok to do them and
    continue to receive Communion.  These people must be informed of their
    error and taught what the Church teaches.

    The Church teaches that any sexual act outside of the (possibly
    fertile) marital act is a grievous sin and mortal to the spiritual life
    of the soul.  The teaching is that these sexual acts (masturbation,
    homosexual acts, heterosexual acts outside of marriage, marital
    contraceptive intercourse, etc.) are intrinsically evil in and of
    themselves.  Yet there are those who teach that these things are OK
    depending on the situation, Situation Ethics.  There are even persons
    who have the title "Catholic Moral Theologian" who teach that these
    sinful acts are OK.

    Thus, in this climate, we need to affirm in the public forum what the
    Church teaches about sexuality and that what the Church teaches is the
    Truth.

                                            In Christ the Savior

                                            Greg Wolff
                                            wolff@ics.enet.dec.com
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From: URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM
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Subject: Re: The Real Presence
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:30:05 GMT
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Edward Harbin <eharbin@CONVEX.COM> writes:
>However, I doubt the way to convince someone who has the temerity to
>disagree with you is to nauseate them.... Just a thought from the
>bottom of my stomach :)

You're the second person today who thinks I'm out to convince someone.

Perhaps the nature of the list has changed since I subscribed in '91.
The listees at that time seemed very set in their ways and it would
have been quite foolish to pretend that anyones' personal belief could
have been swayed by much other than an act of God:-)
I suppose it is possible that there are some listees today who are not
so secure in their beliefs that something I may say off hand might
influence their conscience one way or another.
I guess I might be underestimating the power of this medium. -J.J.
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:27:00 EST
From:         "Alfred S. Chavez" <achavez@UMSA.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Role of the Papacy (was Re: Homosexual acts)

Ray Lang wrrote:
>Very few bishops are professionally active theologians.  Only a
>relative handful have earned a theological doctorate, and that was at
>the beginning of their careers.  Most have little or no record of
>teaching at the graduate level, publishing in scholarly journals, or
>of holding leadership positions in professional societies.

Others will point this out, I'm sure, but the same can be said for all of
the original 12 apostles, and indeed, of the Master Himself.

His Peace,
Fred Chavez
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 09:41:15 WST
From:         David Straface <xavier@PF.ADIED.OZ.AU>
Subject:      Christian Communities

Is there any one out there who belongs to a IBOC (International Brotherhood
of Communities) or Catholic Fraternity Community?  Please post directly.

Thank You

David Straface
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:23:09 PST
From:         J Scott Berg <ALHY@SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Edward Schileebeecx (sp?) writings & Justification by Faith...
              25 Jan 93 10:49:31 PST." <272E5594D0E08A36@SCS.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

In your message of Mon, 25 Jan 93 10:49:31 PST you write:
>     If you want orthodox Catholic writings, don't read Edward Schileebeecx.
>     He is not orthodox at all.  You would be better served by the various
>     books published by Ignatius Press (2515 McAllister St., San Francisco,
>     CA 94118, USA; call 800-537-0390 and ask for a catalog).
>

This is not really correct, as far as I can tell.  Some of his
writings, particularly those dealing with transubstantiation, got him
into trouble.  However, many of his writings are considered orthodox
by everyone I've ever known.  In particular, "Christ the Sacrament of
the Encounter with God" is very well thought of, and has an
Imprimateur and Nihil Obstat (or however you spell them).  I have a
book of his about Mary ("Mary the Mother of the Redemption" or
something like that) that I think has the appropriate approvals as
well.

Peace and God bless

                                -Scott Berg

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions expressed here are, of course, my own and nobody else's.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. Scott Berg
email: ALHY@slac.stanford.edu
real mail: Varian Physics
           Stanford  CA  94305-4060
phone:  (415) 926-4732 (w)
        (415) 326-2631 (h)
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:53:41 MST
From:         mlj@EVOLVING.COM
Subject:      Re: PREGNANCY
              at Jan 28, 93 3:01 pm

>
> I am fed up with all this talk about catholic women and abortion.
> I feel that it is wrong for people to moralise about this subject as it is a
> situation that very few women will have to face and therefore will never have
> to consider .
> As a devout catholic women I had NO reservations about having an abortion at
> 6 months into my pregnancy.
> I faced the situation where I had came to a cross roads in my life, I was
> offered my first job offer since leaving university which I was delighted
> to accept but found myself pregnant to my lover.
> That was the choice, a new career or to stay at home and watch a baby.
>  I did not approach my church for any guidence on the matter, I contacted
> my doctor and arranged the termination as soon as I could.
> I would say to any woman in a situation of unwanted pregnancy to do similar
> as you will not feel bad about yourself.
> The only thing that will make you feel guilty about abortion is a priest.
>
> Eileen
>
> clg292@vaxa.strath.ac.uk.
>
Eileen,

> As a devout catholic women I had NO reservations about having an abortion at
> 6 months into my pregnancy.

To call yourself a 'devout catholic' you MUST accept ALL she teaches.  You
are not a devout catholic.  You need to go to confession.  If you still hold
to 'As a devout catholic women' I suggest you exercise your Choice and find
a new religion - one that allows, however wrong and evil, the the killing of
babies.  'Save the whales, but heaven forbid saving the unborn human.'

> The only thing that will make you feel guilty about abortion is a priest.

You blame a priest for your feeling of guilt.  God has placed a consience
in us.  It's the outraged conscience which is offended by immoral practices.
The guilt is a positive feeling urging you to do what's right.  When the
offenders of Gods's law urge public acceptance of their action, they are
hoping to avoid the guilt which is inevitable when one sins.  What's right
isn't determined by vote or by public acceptance.  The consequence of sin
is unavoidable.

--mlj (Michael Johns  mlj@evolving.com)
From: bobv@spike.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Bob von Buelow)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: homilies
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:31:04 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: spike.jpl.nasa.gov

"Alfred S. Chavez" <achavez@UMSA.UMD.EDU> writes:
>Don Magee writes:
>>Somewhere those delivering homilies need to strike a balance.  At
>>least in the Arch. of NY, we need a little more Tradition and a little
>>less secular life.
>
>Such as....farming, finances, familial relationships, etc?  Seems to me the
>gospels were full of such "secular life." ...

I agree, Fred.  And further the Constitution on the Church tells us that
the work of the church is to take the gospel to the everyday world.  And
I don't think that means reading the Bible on streetcorners, but rather
living the Christlike life out in the real world.  A retreat to Tradition
(as I think it was referred to here) is a retreat from our real call, 
to bring Christ into the 'secular life'.  Isn't the real test how well we
answer this call, not how well we would do on a church history test?  Yes,
it is unfortunate that we don't do better here, and we should improve, but
first things first, please.

Bob



--
Bob von Buelow             Mars Observer Planning and Sequencing Element
bobv@spike.jpl.nasa.gov          - standard disclaimers apply -
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:51:07 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Feb 2

                    Tuesday, February 2, 1993
                      Presentation of Jesus

Malachi 3:1-4                                   Psalm 24
Hebrews 2:14-18                                 Luke 2:22-40

                       A DAY TO REMEMBER

"The couple brought Him up to Jerusalem so that He could be presented to
 the Lord." --Luke 2:22

Presentation Ministries, which publishes "One Bread, One Body," is named
after our Lady of Presentation, whose feast day is celebrated November 21.
But we also celebrate today's feast day, the Presentation of our Lord.

When Jesus was presented in the temple, Mary and Joseph were purified
(Lk 2:22), Jesus was consecrated (Lk 2:23), Simeon's life was fulfilled
(Lk 2:26), and Mary and Joseph were amazed (Lk 2:33).  In addition to these
events, at Jesus' presentation, Simeon prophesied that Jesus is "a revealing
Light to the Gentiles, the Glory of Your people Israel!" (Lk 2:32), and "a
Sign that will be opposed" (Lk 2:34).  Simeon also prophesied that Mary
would be "pierced with a sword" of sorrow (Lk 2:35).  Finally, Anna
experienced the culmination of her eighty-four years when she met the Baby
Jesus (Lk 2:37-38).  The day of Jesus' presentation was an exceptional day
for many people.

Today as we remember Jesus' presentation, we also can be purified, consecrated,
fulfilled, and amazed.  We can begin a new life or end our life.  We can
suffer redemptively.  Today Jesus will be a revealing Light to us or a Sign
of contradiction.  Make this a day to remember.  Accept Jesus.  Don't resist
His grace.  Present yourself to Him with total love.


Prayer:  Father, may I never forget this day because I give my life to you
         and let You love me.

Promise: "Suddenly there will come to the temple the Lord Whom you seek."
          Mal 3:1

Praise:  Alleluia!  "This is the day the Lord has made; let us be glad and
         rejoice in it" (Ps 118:24).  Alleluia!
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
 Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
 Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
              Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:51:50 EST
From:         "Donald J. Magee" <djm@TRENT.ATT.COM>
Subject:      Re: condemnation of homosexual acts is n
              93 9:26 am

>
> On Tue, 26 Jan 1993 02:22:22 GMT Kenneth Bath asked:
> >When was the last time you heard a sermon on the Precepts of the Church?

>
> I really doubt the reason people are not going to mass is because no one told
> them to! No one told me to breathe, but it's something I've done consistantly
>
> >When was the last time you heard a sermon on why the Pope is the head
> >of the Church?  How about a sermon on the symbols of the Church like
> >the Ixthus, the Chi-Rho, the Alpha and Omega, or even the Cross itself?
>
> The homily at mass is part of the liturgical celebration, not part of an
> adult education semimar. It is a very brief time during which we are able to
> reflect on the readings we have just heard and decide how they are to be
> applied to our lives. I, for one, would look for another church to attend if
> the priest stood up and said "Let's ignore what we just heard and what we are
> about to do, and instead continue our series on 'Church Symbols of the Middle
> Ages'."
>
> Ah!, you say, we have those seminars but only a few show up. The only way to
> reach the remaining Catholics is to lecture them at mass. Then, I respond
> that we have a more serious problem than a series of sermons on Church
> Regulations will solve.
>
> Jim McIntosh, SFO (jim@american.edu)

While I totally agree that the homily should not be a graduate-level
discussion on Augustine's teachings on grace, it should be relevant to
the Scriptures and the Tradition of the Church.  To mention the latest
Giants game or some other silliness is not worthy of a liturgy of
divine worship.  While I can appreciate a particular homilist desiring
to interest the people before him, I can not appreciate him doing it
by discussing secular things in the context of the Liturgy.  Would a
discussion of the prohibitions against contraceptives and abortion in
the Didache be appropriate to show the tradition of the Church's
teaching against abortion and contraception?  Or maybe Augustine's
teaching that a man who has his wife use contraceptives turns her into
a prostitute be appropriate?  Certainly.  Is last nights football
game, or getting the dept. of transportation to add a left turn lane
at the corner worthy of mention in the Liturgy?  I don't think so.

Somewhere those delivering homilies need to strike a balance.  At
least in the Arch. of NY, we need a little more Tradition and a little
less secular life.


Don Magee
trent!djm@jolt.att.com
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: eharbin@convex.com (Edward Harbin)
Subject: Re: directions
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:49:52 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <930126143209.20200e61@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM> URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM writes:

>Some more 'tests';
>How about if someone were to go on public TV and rip up a picture of
>the Pope, would that get a public outcry more to your liking?
>Or what about publically supporting good-old Adolph, what side gets
>the "brickbats"?

>Hmmm, seems to be a pattern, extremists don't get much support no
>matter what the cause. Perhaps the public prefers "middle-of-the-road"
>type positions. Not that I would ever suggest that any of the Church's
>positions are "extreme" to us Catholics, just that to the general
>public they may seem extreme. Wat'cha think:-) - J.J.

WattI think is you're right - anyone out of the mainstream gets the grief.
I'd certainly include whatsername who tore up the picture, with whom I
have more sympathy than you'd think.  She sounds young rather than vicious.

But the mainstream is not necessarily the middle of the road. A lynch
mob expresses a collective opinion which is extreme and which it
may one day regret. There is an insularity and self-satisfaction about
America, adrift from its past, such that it never knows where the
center is. I'd be surprised if the judgement of the centuries is so
far wrong, and the received opinions of the professional classes so
far correct, as is commonly supposed.

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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:59:32 -0500
From:         Michael I Bushnell <mib@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      condemnation of homosexual acts is (un)necessary...
              27 Jan 1993 15:55:50 -0500
              <9301272057.AA10539@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu>

Greg Wolff said:

  No one will know if a person is a {homo|hetero}sexual unless they take
  action and prove it to you.  What the military is banning as "unfit for
  military service" is any person who makes provable homosexual actions.

This is incorrect.  The US military bans all those who are gay,
irrespective of their actions.

        -mib
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