From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:29:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug25.172941.24104
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug18.180420.12812@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>However, admitting the existence of the masc./fem  spectrum 
>ALSO ADMITS THE ABILITY TO DIFFERENTIATE between masc. and fem.  
>Otherwise, we are all just fooling ourselves.

Well, to the extent that it matters.  You seem to think it matters a
lot.  You're like someone ranting and raving about how awful it is to
be tall, and the shit that you get because of it, while directing your
vituperativeness towards short people.  Is it any wonder that you're
being tarred as a looney-tune?

>I have also gotten email from other sites, gay men saying "Right on!" 
>with what I have posted.  They are a little too shy to post it themselves
>(and I respect their right of anonymity), but the point still stands:
>there is a large chunk of gay men out there that do NOT identify with
>the fringe elements of the gay movement, and who will NEVER come out
>and join you because of the bizarreness that is publicly exhibited.

Right.  Everyone who has written to disagree with you is a drag queen
(or worse!) a lesbian (or even worse!) no better than a straight woman.
Bob, you don't garner respect by acting stupid and saying stupid things.
People might draw conclusions from what you write.

>/  There's nothing painful about
>/"masculine" men.  There's nothing special about being butch.
>Then why is there such a premium on avoiding butch behavior, and 
>downgrading masc. gays? 

Boob, we're not downgrading you because you're masculine, we're
downgrading you because you're saying really, really dumb things
which make you look very silly.

Frankly, I'd never ever heard of this scourge imposed on masc. males
by the amalgamated association of drag queens and sissyboys.  Whenever
I go to a gay bar, all I see are men trying to look and act hypermasculine.
All the erotica I buy is oriented along those lines.  Hey, does this
mean I'm *not* a drag queen?  What do I have to do to be a Real Man (tm)
like you, Bob?

>Wanna come over to a poker party at my place sometime, elf?

Wow.  Do you smoke cigars there?  I know lots of Masculine Men (tm)
who loove hanging out and being butch, smoking their cigars with other
Masculine Men (tm).

>Two dozen 
>masc. gay men doing perfectly normal things; no one squealing "girlfriend",
>no one discussing Madonna, no one raving about the latest Broadway 
>musical.

Gee, this sounds like the last con to me.  Or even the motss dinner we
had last weekend.  Wow, I guess I *am* a Masculine Man(tm)!  Even the
women there were Masculine Men (tm)!  No poker, though.  Do you have to
like poker to be a Masculine Man(tm)?

>And every one of these guys gets unmitigated shit pitched at
>him by the queens because the queens all think it's an act.  Jealousy
>is ugly.  

Maybe the get shit piled on them (on their piles?) because they're assholes,
not because they're masculine.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer