From: idfriedm@hertz.uwaterloo.ca (id friedman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Joseph Churba (Was: Re: israel as asset)
Date: 10 Jan 93 18:44:33 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <1993Jan10.015144.24095@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>In article <1993Jan9.1777.22304@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
>
># To: Roger Carasso
> 
>#  RC> "Joseph Churba, a former top Air Force intelligence official
>#  RC> and head of the Washington-based Center for International
>#  RC> Security, estimated that it would cost the United States $100
>#  RC> billion or more in additional spending -- and the deployment
>#  RC> of more than 200,000 of its own troops -- to replace Israel's
>#  RC> pro-U.S. strategic weight in the Middle East."
>#  RC>         --Myths and Facts,
>#  RC>          A concise Record of the Arab-Israeli Conflict,
>#  RC>          1989
> 
    I remember another prominent American intelligence officer making
    similar comments. I will try to find the source. ( Might take a week
    or so to find, be patient).

   



># Typical schnorring propaganda.
> 
>	Whatever you say.
>
># It's fascinating how many Israeli supporters rely on the same
># handouts from AIPAC to do their "thinking" for them.
> 
   Most of Israel's main supporters get their info. from
   (1) Local media
   (2) Israeli media ( some of them actually read Hebrew)
   (3) Talking to people there.

                                                                   
 



>	Yep. Whatever you say.
>
># Joseph Churba was a former close associate of Rabbi Meir
># Kahane--not the most objective source in the world on Mideast
># politics, eh? See Robert Friedman's False Prophet for the full
># background on Churba.
>
>	Actually, you might want to do a background check on Robert
>Friedman.  Hardly an objective source on Jews or Israel.
>
>	As to the association between Joseph Churba and Rabii Meir
>Kahane (HY"D), here are some actual facts.  One, they wrote a book
>together in the early (mid?) 1960's which may or may not have been
>commissioned by the FBI/CIA, to get Jewish support for the Vietnam war
>on the grounds that anything that was bad for Communism was by its
>very essence good for Jews.  While this may not have been such a great
>thing, it is hardly the worst thing in the world.
>
>	I once saw Joseph Churba speak.  He was asked about whether or not
>he supported Rabbi Meir Kahane's proposals vis a vis the
>"palestinians?".  His reply was that he REJECTED THEM OUT OF HAND.
>You should not smear this man with a false charge.
>--
              
   Let's take a close look at the ***** facts ****** behind a statement
   from a person such as Churba. Let's look at how Israel helped the U.S
   in only one recent conflict ( Gulf War).            

    I realize that Churba may have made the statement before the war,
    but the conclusion is similar. 

Fact #1: A ** major ** part of warfare is information.

Fact #2: Information indicating potential conflict is very important.

- If I know that there is a strong chance of conflict, I can prepare
  arms, people, strategies, etc.. more effectively.

Fact #3: Israel warned the U.S ( and world) about potential threat from Iraq.

- While the average American knew nothing about Iraq ( except that they beat
 up on the evil Iranians) Israel warned about Saddamn's destabilizing force.

Conclusion: Israel helped the U.S prepare for a "potential" war.

Fact #4: Fighting a non-nuclear is preferred to fighting one with nukes.

Fact #5: There is a very strong chance that Iraq would have had nukes in 1991
         has Israel not bombed Osiraq in 1981.

- They came close to having them anyways.

- The International Atomic Commission ( name?) believed their story about
 the reactor being used for electricity!! ( God knows they don't have enough
 oil).

Fact #6: The U.S and the allies thought that it was in their best interest
         to fight Iraq in 1991.

Fact #7: Based on fact #6 and facts #4 and #5, Israel prevented them from
        fighting a nuclear power. ( This fact, ***** in itself *****,
         is worth all of the U.S aid to Israel).

Fact #8: The U.S needed *** information *** to effectively fight a desert
         war.

Fact #9: Israel was the U.S ally which was best suited to helping the U.S
         make use of that info.

- How many other countries have ** won recent desert wars ** with U.S\
 based arms???

Fact #10: Facts #8 and #9 indicate that Israel was useful as a source of
          at least some info. for desert storm.

- I read that Israel helped feed the U.S info. on things such as effective
  water usage by troops, smart bombs, etc..

Fact #11: Israel provided at least some weapons to the U.S in the Gulf
          War.

- I read about Israeli minesweepers ( for tanks), smart bombs, and other
  weapons being used.


Conclusion: The U.S aid to Israel was worth its weight in gold for the U.S !!

However, the problem is that the Israeli gov't ( and its supporters abroad)
fail to make these points. They, for some reason, like to portray Israel 
as needing handouts and providing nothing in return. This is silly and
untrue.

I think that Israel should try to structure the economy so it doesn't need
as much U.S aid. However, that *** aid *** is more like a business deal in
which both sides benefit.

Ishay
 
>	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
>at math and those that are not.
>
>makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast