HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: darrell@coplex.com (Darrell Mizell)
Subject: kidney stone pain
Organization: Copper Electronics, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:54:01 GMT

how long can the pain last and what can be done to relieve
it? how come it has different levels of pain? how come it
is either on or off? 
any other info would be appreciated. thanks  
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: FYI: Re: Calcium vs. Iron
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 18:05:02 GMT

In article <shari.724443369@rlxdev> shari@modcomp.uucp (Shari Bernhard) writes:

[...]

>This was very interesting information and confirmed what the blood center
>told me, but it didn't answer my questions.  Am I better off with lower
>iron but higher calcium?  If I eat a calcium source a few hours before or
>after eating an iron source, will my body absorb both?  People who eat
>an iron-fortified cereal with milk are not getting the iron they think
>they are because the calcium blocks it.  Cereal companies aren't going to
>tell people that; how can the public be educated?  Sorry for reposting
>these questions, but no one responded earlier.  Thanks.

   This will hardly provide The Definitive Answer(tm) to your questions, but
   it may offer some new information.

	"If deficient, oral [iron] supplementation is preferred."
	{Fairbanks, V. F., Bentler, E., Iron deficiency, in HEMATOLOGY,
	McGraw Hill, 1983, pp. 466-489.}


	"Oral supplementation is best absorbed on an empty stomach."
	{Martinez-Torres, C., Layrisse, M. Nutritional factors in iron
	deficiency: Food iron absorption. CLINICS IN HEMATOLOGY 2(2):339-352,
	1973.}


	"Excessive [calcium] supplementation may decrease iron absorption
	in a dose defined manner leading to iron-deficiency anemia.  Perhaps
	23% of those ingesting more than 2,000 milligrams [of calcuim] daily
	are at risk."
	{Read, M. H., et. al. Mineral supplementation practices of adults in
	seven western states. NUT. RES. 6:375-383, 1986.}


	"...coffee taken with the meal or up to one hour after eating
	reduced absorbed iron by 39%.  This effect was concentration-
	dependent."
	"...tea taken with a hamburger meal reduced iron absorption by 64%..."
	{Morck, T. A., et. al. Inhibition of food iron absorption by coffee.}

	"Beef, lamb, chicken, pork, and fish have been shown to enhance
	iron absorption, while soy decreases it."
	{Kane, A. P., Miller, D. D. In vitro estimation of the effects of
	selected proteins on iron bioavailability.}

	[Both of the above from AM. J. CLIN. NUTR. 37(3):416-420, 1983.]



	"[Vitamin C] markedly enhances non-heme iron absorption by keeping
	ferric iron soluble and available for absorption at the alkaline PH
	of the duodenum."

	{Monsen, E. R. Ascorbic acid: an enhancing factor in iron absorption,
	in NUTRITIONAL AVAILABILITY OF IRON, American Chemical Society, 1982,
	pp. 85-95.}
	{Conrad, M. E., Schade, S. G. Ascorbic acid chelates in iron absorption:
	a role for hydrochloric acid and bile. GASTROENTEROL. 55:35, 1968.}


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 16:25:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Freedom of Healing
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition

Nice to see that "Concerned Citizen" is sufficiently sure of itself that it
is prepared to stand up and be counted...
From: jim@egret.ess.harris.com (Jim Mitchell)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Dry-eye/dry-mouth Syndrome
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:01:40 GMT
Reply-To: jim@egret.ess.harris.com
Organization: Harris Corp, ISD


Sorry about the e-mail address on the original post - 'tis corrected
on this one!  Thanks,

-jdm-
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: plum@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov (Mike Plum)
Subject: Fasting
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:13:00 GMT


Hi!

I'm looking for information on fasting.  I'm interested in the physiological
aspects, as opposed to the spiritual aspects, i.e., what's it good for?  I
am considering fasting on a periodic basis, based on the idea that it's a 
generally good thing to do.  I plan to drink only water, for just a day at a 
time.  

I can't find much literature on this subject in the local health food stores or
in the library.  Any information or sources of information or personal
experiences would be much appreciated.


Thanks in advance...   Mike.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jim@egret.imagesRus (Jim Mitchell)
Subject: Dry-eye/dry-mouth Syndrome
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:28:04 GMT
Reply-To: jim@egret.imagesRus
Organization: Harris Corp, ISD
Keywords: Dry-eye dry-mouth glycerine-water

I hope this group has some ideas.  Have you heard of Dry-eye/dry-mouth 
syndrome?  Does low relative humidity exacerbate the symptoms?  Is there
a way to hydrate the body that will alleviate the symptoms, somewhat?
My friend uses a treatment (added to distilled water) that claims to 
make the water "wetter" (glycerin-type additive?).  I could collect more
info if I knew what kind of info would help ... comments???

-jdm-
From: tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Linoleic acid requirement?
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:54:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bz982B.1zw.1
	<1992Dec8.150456.14989@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: tsf@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1992Dec8.150456.14989@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin) writes:

   Aside from what I might get from my diet, I obtain linoleic acid from
   lecithin capsules (as linoleic acid is one of the main constituents of
   lecithin).  In my case, each capsule: contains ~ 1/2 gm of lecithin,
   is < 6 calories & for those for which this is a major consideration,
   costs < 4 cents.

I've heard that lecithin capsules tend to be rancid, and that one can
typically observe this by simply breaking them open and smelling the
oil.  Have you found a supply that you have some reason to believe is
fresh?
--
Tim Freeman <tsf@cs.cmu.edu>    CompuServe ID 71045,2267 checked occasionally.
When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun.
Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition

In sci.med.nutrition, silver@fraser.sfu.ca (Craig Silver) writes:

> cpr4k@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Christian P. Roberts) writes:

> >What is the current recommendation for supplementing one's diet
> >with calcium (to minimize the bone loss leading to osteoporosis):

> I just finished a nutrition course and heard quite a lot about this
> subject.  My professor's thesis is that we as north americans DO NOT
> have a deficiency in calcium.  Rather, we have our calcium in the
> wrong body parts.  And he blames this on our dietary VITAMIN D!  If
> you'd like to me to explain further, get back to me.


Could you explain to the rest of us as well.


> >I have found supplements with Ca/Mg ratios of 2:1 and 1:1.  Or
> >would it be preferable to forego the magnesium?  

> If you take calcium supliments, the Ca/Mg ratio of 2:1 is definately
> what I was taught.  This is especially important if you want to
> maintain proper levels of calcium because it is magnesium that helps
> to prevent calcium loss.

> >What is the verdict on the use of calcium phosphate?  I recall that
> >this was not recommended because it caused a net loss of bone.

> I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but the current RDA
> (Recommended Daily Allowance - USA) is a Ca/Mg/P ratio of 2:1:1.

I wonder how rigid is this ratio.  Let's say that I drink no milk, my
Ca intake would drop to maybe 200mg.  Since there is little magnesium
in milk, my magnesium intake would stay about the same, so my Ca/Mg ratio
would become .5:1.  And, there are many countries that drink hardly any
milk.  How can they be healthy on what we consider to be a substandard
diet?


> -- 

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Craig Silver	           Computer Science at Simon Fraser University
> silver@sfu.ca (Internet)   Burnaby, B.C., Canada


gordon
gw@hpdtc.dtc.hp.com
From: tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: TIME RELEASE VITAMINS
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:59:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bz98AM.262.1
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: tsf@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <11DEC92.22481443.0063@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CCMG@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CCMG) writes:

   I recently bought some TIME RELEASE MULTI-VITAMINS,
   has anyone any negative or positive remarks concerning
   the TIME-RELEASE factor?

Yes.  During the hours it takes them to do their releasing, they
generally subject one small part of your digestive system to a very
high dosage of whatever substances are in the pill.  This doesn't seem
like a very good idea.  I take most of my vitamins as a powder instead.
--
Tim Freeman <tsf@cs.cmu.edu>    CompuServe ID 71045,2267 checked occasionally.
When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun.
Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: MENOPAUSE self-help group
From: WCCOLR%AM%IMCLU1@mrgate.resmel.bhp.com.au (Rodney Cole)
Date: 18 Dec 92 09:45:03 +1000
Followup-To: sci.med.nutrition
Distribution: world
Organization: BHP

MENOPAUSE Self-Help Group......A new self-help group is being formed in
Melbourne Australia to educate women and companions about Menopause and how
to deal with it.    I would be interested in hearing from any similar
self-help or research group with a common interest in menopause.   I would
also be interested in recent research work being conducted into womens
menopause so that up to date information can be  shared.   Medical
practioners and life style therapeutists will be invited to present the
information.
Any comments or practical experiences to help this group get established
would be very much appreciated.
  
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: rlewis@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca (Robert Lewis)
Subject: China Study
Keywords: China, epidimiology, aging
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Distribution: sci
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:45:33 GMT

A while back a report on a large scale epidimilogical/nutrition study of
China was posted in this group.  Could some one E-mail me a copy of that
and could anyone point me towards published articles coming from that or
from other studies which discuss findings concerning osteoporosis,
atherosclerosis, diabetes, and other degenerative diseases associated
with aging?  Thanks in advance.

Robert M. Lewis			rlewis@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca
Department of Sociology
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
From: Scott.Johnson@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM ( Scott Johnson)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Fasting
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:17:38 GMT
	<1gomqeINNmsm@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
Organization: NCR Microelectronics, Ft. Collins, CO
In-reply-to: kjell@cse.ucsc.edu's message of 17 Dec 92 01:57:34 GMT

>>>>> On 17 Dec 92 01:57:34 GMT, kjell@cse.ucsc.edu (Kjell Post) said:
K> NNTP-Posting-Host: arapaho.ucsc.edu

K> In article <16DEC199213132194@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov> plum@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov (Mike Plum) writes:
>
>Hi!
>
K> Join or call the American National Hygiene Society, P.O. Box 30630, 
K> Tampa, FL 33630, (813) 855-6607.  They have a couple of books on fasting,
K> written by the late Herbert M. Shelton.  He conducted several hundred
K> thousands of fasts.  You may want to start with the book "Fasting Can
K> Save Your Life".  You don't have to join to order books.

Wow! Several 100 thousands of fasts?  Let's see, at 365 days/year, 1
fast/day, he must have lived over 273 years!  I guess I should try out
this fasting thing!

-Scott

P.S.  This was intended to be humorous and not a flame for those of you
who didn't get it.... <sigh>

--
-----------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Scott.Johnson@FtCollinsCO.NCR.com
	 uunet!ncrlnk!ncr-mpd!Scott.Johnson
My opinions are mine and mine alone (unless I only live in your dream, in
which case they are yours and I denounce all responisbility).
GA to SK
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Subject: Re: Fasting
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 02:51:20 GMT

Pray tell, what are the purported benefits of fasting?  I find my body
does better if I eat all day (a little at a time).  I'd think that the
main effect of fasting is that your body would start shutting down to
conserve resources.  Then, when you resume eating, your body would hoard
all the resources it could get a hold of.

Do enlighten me.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Kidney Stones
From: <RBRCSA@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 10:00:53 EST
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company

Thanks, I've been doing just that but was concerned that the well water I have
is extremely hard.  So what you're saying is that the fluid dynamics in the kid
ney itself plays a role here; Maybe I'll read up in the boiler scale literature
:-).  Would also help to explain the hereditary aspects of this.  I should have

some 'hard' data by the end of the week.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: cpr4k@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Christian P. Roberts)
Subject: Re: Calcium/Magnesium
Organization: Academic Computing Center - U.Va.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:02:12 GMT

I was the original poster of the question about the recommended Ca/Mg
ratio.  I am female, and was concerned about using a supplement to
offset the effects of menopause relative to osteoporosis.  I have
gathered from the postings that a 2:1 ratio is probably recommended,
with no vitamin D, or a small amount.

Thanks to you all for your informative postings and email.

-- 

Chris Roberts                     ITC/Academic Computing Center
cpr4k@virginia.edu                University of Virginia           
(804) 982-4693                    Charlottesville, Virginia 22903
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: shari@modcomp.uucp (Shari Bernhard)
Subject: Re: FYI: Re: Calcium vs. Iron
Organization: MODCOMP, an AEG company
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:16:09 GMT

ringo@icad.com (Amy Gorin) writes:

>  > (From _Vegetarian_Times_, May 1991)

>  > "The Calcium-Iron Showdown

>  > "...Two new studies show that consuming calcium-containing foods or
>  > supplements with iron-containing foods or supplements can spell doom for
>  > iron absorption.  The first study, done in Sweden, showed that fortifying
>  > bread with calcium or eating meat with dairy products could block iron
>  > absorption by as much as 60 percent.  The second study, done at the 
>  > University of Kansas Medical Center in Kansas City, found that when iron
>  > was taken with most calcium supplements, iron absorption was also reduced, 
>  > sometimes dramatically.
>  > [details of studies omitted to save space.  VT says both were reported in
>  > the _American_Journal_of_Clinical_Nutrition_, but don't specify which 
>  > issues.  One of the authors of the Kansas study was James Cook, M.D.]

This was very interesting information and confirmed what the blood center
told me, but it didn't answer my questions.  Am I better off with lower
iron but higher calcium?  If I eat a calcium source a few hours before or
after eating an iron source, will my body absorb both?  People who eat
an iron-fortified cereal with milk are not getting the iron they think
they are because the calcium blocks it.  Cereal companies aren't going to
tell people that; how can the public be educated?  Sorry for reposting
these questions, but no one responded earlier.  Thanks.

Shari Bernhard
uunet!modcomp!shari
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Is there an FAQ for this group
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 16 Dec 92 07:16:30 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: sdavis@khan.ColoSpgs.NCR.COM's message of 15 Dec 92 21:57:14 GMTLines: 14

In <3391@ncr-mpd.FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM> sdavis@khan.ColoSpgs.NCR.COM writes:

> I just started looking at this group and was wondering if there is an FAQ
> available??  I am interested in an FAQ on migraine headaches.

Glad you asked.  There IS a rudimentary FAQ which is not quite on-line yet.  I
am currently evaluating 2 competing auto-posting software programs (heh, heh;
this is somewhat out of my league, but oh, well).  I have sent you what we have
on migraines via e-mail.  Meanwhile :  patience folks;  the FAQ *IS* about to
happen.

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Subject: "Eye Doctors"
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:37:45 GMT

My wife's optometrist examined her eyes yesterday to determine the cause
of "pigment disbursion." He suggested that it placed her in a higher
risk group for early glaucoma.

I was under the impression that optometrists were trained and licensed
only to do refractions and perscriptions, so I asked her to ask him. He
claimed that that changed about 10 years ago, and that now, optometrists
can do everything an ophthalmogist can do except for "invasive surgery."

Is that true? (We're in NJ, if that makes any difference).

Thanks,
Pete
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline)
Subject: Re: Peter Breggin, _Toxic Psychiatry_ (Q)
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 21:48:04 EST

In article <Bz29F5.Jvr@unx.sas.com> sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill) writes:
>
>"Behave normally" means (read the case descriptions) "not being a pain
>to other family members or people who may interact with them".  Very few
>(some, I suppose) would claim that patients being treated "successfully"
>with psycho-active drugs or ECT behave *normally*.  But at least they
>aren't a nuisance any more.

I would make this claim.  No problem.  The vast majority of people
successfully treated with psychotropic medication and ECT behave
normally.  That is, they might function adequately as your teacher,
your cab driver, your doctor.  After ECT, or while taking effective
psychotropic medication.   I know because I've treated both cab
drivers and physicians with psychotropics and seen them before and
after ECT.  Is is simply a falsehood to say that appropriately prescribed
psychotropics or ECT make people behave like zombies.  

The people who are manifestly NOT behaving normally are the people with
serious mental illness who are not getting treatment.  Most untrained
people can spot some of them a block down the street; disheveled,
yelling back at their hallucinatory voices.  

>
>And what about those patients who are perfectly happy about their
>"abnormal" behavior?  What about those patients who do not feel the
>need for treatment.  If you have not encountered a large number
>of case descriptions in which the patient is being treated at the behest
>of someone *else* (often under duress), you haven't read many cases.

I suppose its possible to be so naive that one can not concieve of the
possibility that something can go wrong with the brain which might
make it hard to realize that something was wrong with ones' mind,
the functioning of one's brain.  Even Dr. Szasz admits of this 
possibility (I have had this debate with him personally).

Mental health law in New York State provides for involuntary hospitalization
for 3 days if one is judged an imminent danger to oneself or others or
for up to two weeks if 1)  A person is judged to be suffering a serious
mental illness AND 2) a person is incapable or realizing their need
for treatment by virtue of their mental illness AND 3) treatment can
resaonably be expected to improve the patient's condition.  Most states
have similar sorts of legal frameworks.  Psychiatric hospitals are not
gulags where family members incarcerate nuisance relatives. The problem
is often the other way around; family & friends can see that someone is
coming apart at the seams and the ER doctor can't really see as things
are so bad as all that and the person is not admitted....

================================================================= 
mark kline                              mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu
suny health science center, syracuse    voice: (315) 422-1050
================ courtesy of syracuse university ================
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Physician's Incomes
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:49:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Dec20.185926.10508@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes...
> 
> Peggy sez:
>>>>Since you seem to have misunderstood my point, I'll repeat it.
>>>>I do not favor civil-service type systems (sometimes called 
>>>>socialized medicine).  Whether other countries have systems like 
>>>>this I do not know.  However, I would beware of any system that 
>>>>did not reward doctors (or anyone else) for working extra hard,
>>>>or a system that did not give them opportunity, to reach their 
>>>>full potential.
>>>>
>>> 
> 
>I sez:
>>>But this statement of yours is just a straw man, since you seem to
>>>know next to nothing about any health care system anywhere.  Why
>>>are you making it?
>>
> 
>Peggy astutely replies:
>>Ever hear of free enterprise?  The concepts involved can be 
>>applied to any industry/profession.
>>
> 
>No Peggy, never heard of free enterprise.  In fact, I never went
>to school, have never held a job, and I found this sparcstation in a 
>dumpster.  I was so lucky to be able to get it to work!  So yes,
>I *certainly* believe you when you say it's all Just That Simple.
> 
>Now I must go find some televangelists to give my money to.
> 

Might as well, if you don't have an alternative view worth
expressing.

- Peggy -
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Adiposity 101
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:05:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec15.150512.15687
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec15.090057.531@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:
>Gee, then I wonder how Mrs. Dukakis, wife of the governor of
>Massachusetts (who surely must have lived in Mass. at the time) became
>addicted to diet pills & had to undergo a drug treatment pgm. to get
>off of them?  I guess she myst have been "addicted" to those legally
>prescribed drugs "without sympathomimetic properties", eh? ;-) ;-)

Amphetamines can be prescribed; it is only their use for weight loss
which is proscribed in Massachusetts.  Kitty Dukakis was never obese,
and a prescription for same could at least be filled with an
understanding that it might be for some other purpose.  Fenfluramine
has no approved indication other than weight loss, so it's more
difficult to make a case that such an Rx would be filled without
question.  It's up to the pharmacist to determine whether such a
prescription is licit or illicit.

My understanding is that Mrs. Dukakis was taking 5-10mg of dextro-
amphetamine a day.  This is hardly a daily dose which reflects any kind
of "abuse", and it's arguable whether such a dose is any more harmful
than drinking too much coffee.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med