From: lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: FWD for Mr. H. Anonymous - Learn from Geshu (8)
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:19:42 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: Boston University

This is a forwarding.

===========================================================
  Re: Learn from Geshu (VIII)

Let's have a return visit to the following quotation:

>   Let's have a KISS - Keep It Simple and Straightforward.  After much
>digression, what prevents you to give the year of Old Du's Chariot Ballad
>(Bing Che Xing) and when Geshu Han began to attack Tibetans?  Feel a bit
>uncomfortable or what?

I had assumed that our "older chap" Sanyee was truly "learned" and was, 
like our poet TuYa,  merely pretending or faking ignorance when he 
chose to utter numerous laughably absurd statements, such as those
regarding "Jun Bu Neng" and "juxtaposition", etc.  Surprisingly, it 
turns out that he was dead serious (and therefore I was dead wrong), 
continuing to indulge in unheard-of foolery and doing so in absolute 
disregard of the TaiJie/"steps" I have been providing him all the time.

Therefore, I can only conclude that Sanyee is again being "quite
serious" in "translating"  the very title of Old Du's _Bing Che Xing_  
as "Chariot Ballad".  Indeed he seems to have taken a good deal of 
proprietary pride in this "translation" of the title, perhaps inspired 
by the movie extravaganza _Ben Hur_ with Charlton Heston's superb 
performance.

But then one cannot help wondering about Sanyee's education, about how 
much he really knows about Chinese history, particularly our long 
military history, on which he appears so confident in propagating out 
his eagerly awaited "corrections" to my humble and trivial notes.

The prime time of the Tang dynasty is usually defined by the KaiYuan 
and TianBao eras, which corresponded to the years 713-742 and 742-756.  
Let's take a look at what was happening in the world at the time:

It was the period in Europe when the Franks under Charles Martel 
defended France against Arabs invaders from Spain, resulting in a signal
victory in Poitiers in 732 and Arab retirement to their Iberian domain.  
In the Middle East, it was the period when the Abbasid caliphs replaced 
the Umayyad in Damascus and moved the political center of the Islamic
world to Baghdad.  The period, whether in the East or West, is part of 
the Middle Age.  Not ancient times.  No chariot.

During that period, Arabs fought Franks, Sunnis fought Shi'ites,
Tang imperial troops fought TuFan/TuBo warriors, and Korean ships
fought Japanese vessels, among other significant conflicts in the
Euro-Asian continent.  Nobody used a chariot. 

The BingChe Du Fu had chosen as the subject matter of his "Ballad"
could not have been the chariot.  In all likelihood it could only be 
a horse-drawn vehicle carrying Zi1Zhong4.  It is LAUGHABLE for Sanyee
to call it a chariot, there being no other way to describe his unique 
insight into a subject he seems to know practically little about, namely 
the military aspects of Tang (again no pun) history.  Zhuge Liang4's 
Mu4Niu2Liu2Ma might be closer classification if not a better bet, if
Sanyee really wants to generate some "romantic flavor".

In fact, it was decided at least a millennium before Du Fu was even 
born, by Zhao4 WuLingWang, that chariots were not very useful in 
defending ShanXi and HeBei from the cavalry of his most ferocious enemy, 
the XiongNu.  That's why he ordered the adoption of the XiongNu garment 
and the discontinuation of the use of the chariot in Zhao's armies.  The 
event is a milestone in our long military history, known as Hu2Fu2Qi2She4.  
Eventually, all other Chinese States (Zhu1 Xia4) followed suit.  The 
chariot then became a cultural relic.  The HuFuQiShe policy was initiated 
in the year 309 BCE or 309 BC as many people prefer.

HuFuQiShe is merely the first of events involving XiongNu that
had a profound impact on the evolving concept and companion reality
that defines CHINA.  Remarkably, they often involved technological
innovations started by the ultra-Mural XiongNu nomadic tribes 
and only later adopted by the infra-Mural HuaXia farming communities.
The use of horse as a fighting vehicle was first used in East Asia
by the XiongNu groups who harassed Zhao and Yan, latter's chariots
proved totally outclassed.  Hence HuFuQiShe.  The ability to shoot
(arrows) accurately while riding a galloping horse thus became a 
minimal requirement for a military officer until after the Opium Wars.  

Elaborating on this, the XiongNu horsemen were also responsible for 
the invention and widespread use of the stirrup.  The HuaXia cavalries 
again adopted this new product and new process.  Without the stirrup, 
the horse is merely a high-speed highly maneuverable means of transport, 
NOT a weapon.  With the stirrup, the rider is able to use the horse
as a self-propelled weapon.  The XiongNu warriors proved masters
in the use of the stirrup, which Europeans and Indo-Iranians were to
discover to their sorrow.  

Joseph Needham (Li Yue-se),  the British expert on Chinese science 
and technology often pointed out the invention of the stirrup is an 
example of a powerful new weapon having a decisive influence on the 
course of human history, which our "older chap" Sanyee must have also 
read as Li's monumental work was translated and published on Mainland 
prior to Deng's "Reform".  I just don't understand why someone would 
have the intelligence and nerve to think that the Tang soldiers, though 
perhaps less intelligent than our modern learned "older chap", might 
still have been (valiantly but suicidally) using something that had 
been proven out of date a millennium ago.

(To be continued)

-- 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:30193 soc.culture.taiwan:15262 soc.culture.hongkong:14212