From: conditt@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Paul Conditt)
Subject: Response from Moose-Breath
Organization: Applied Research Laboratories, University of Texas at Austin
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:33:19 GMT


Steve Novak writes:
>> = (Paul Conditt) writes:

>>There are always extenuating circumstances,
>>but it seems like if people were willing to take responsibility for their
>>own actions, then a whole lot of the situations where abortion becomes
>>an issue would be avoided.
>
>Oh, brother; not this dishonest bromide again...

Didn't know I was being dishonest.  Could you please tell me how I
can find out in the future so as not to lie on the net?

>
>>The key here is to plan ahead and
>>not wait until you're in the throes of passion to make these decisions.
>>I know for most men, the blood flow to the brain in such situations are
>>diverted somewhere a little bit south, therefore I can't count on myself
>>to think real clearly.
>
>TRANSLATION: I will not take personal responsibility at this point because
>I'm a helpless, lust-crazed man.

Well, pretty close, Steve.  I will take personal responsibility, but 
knowing my own limitations, I am *responsible* enough to make decisions  
while I'm in a more *responsible* state of mind.  The amount of 
helpless-ness depends on the woman :).

>>The choice occurs *before* you have sex, not during
>>and certainly not after.  If a woman wants to preserve her right to 
>>choose to not have a baby, then she shouldn't engage in activities where
>>there's a possibility of that happening.  
>
>Wrong, Moose Breath.  The woman can choose to have an abortion if she gets
>pregnant.  The woman doesn't have to "preserve" anything, because abortion is
>a safe and *legal* option, and that ain't gonna change.  

Pardon me for a moment while I go use some Scope (tm).  I know that a 
woman can choose to end a pregnancy through abortion.  I guess "preserve"
was not the correct word to use.  I was trying to state an opinion, *not*
attack anyone's beliefs or political stance.  Since you're so good at
reading between the lines, I'm sure that you can tell that I do not agree
with the laws on abortion.  However, I'm not going to attack anyone and
call them murderers, narrow-minded or even Moose-Breath.  I do believe that
abortion is murder, but the courts have not defined it as so.  I'm not
going to lobby for them to change it, either, because I don't think 
more legislation is the answer to many problems at all.  What I am going
to do is state my beliefs in as clear and concise a manner as I can.  I'm
not extremely eloquent, so I don't always get my ideas across.  Obviously
my delivery needs work since the smell of my breath came across more strongly
than the content of my words.  
>
>There is no responsibility to carry a pregnancy to term.  You just think

I disagree that there isn't a responsibility to do so.  But, that's just
my opinion and I can voice it, but I don't expect to change your's or
anyone else's.  Again, it comes down to whether the fetus is actually a
life or not, or when it becomes one.  If it's not a life until a certain
time, then you're probably right, there is no responsibility to do so.
If it is a life at conception, then I'd say there is a responsibility to
carry it to term.

>there is.  ...And luckily, you can do whatever you want in YOUR
>relationships, and I'm happy for your freedom.  Just mind your own business,
>and you'll probably have more free time, and people will quit thinking you're
>a control freak..

I can, and I do try to live up to my moral standards in my relationships.
I'm not sure why I'm not minding my own business here, though.  I'm not
standing in front of an abortion clinic trying to force my views on other
people or trying to make women who are having an abortion feel guilty or
angry or anything at all like that.  All I'm doing is trying to express
my viewpoint to an audience that is discussing the issue.  But, I guess if
I were more like you, then I would mind my own business by just describing
people as smelling like the breath of large mammals.  It doesn't seem
right to me that because my views are contrary to yours that mine must
be attacked and ridiculed, when I daresay that if I did the same to yours,
I'd be accused of being a narrow-minded fundamentalist freak, instead of
just a moose-breath control freak.  Hmmm, guess I better just go work
on my oral hygiene and learn how to relinquish control to those who smell
better than I do.


>
>[...]
>-- 
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>| Steve Novak |    |"Wacker the K"| 
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>steven@advtech.USWest.Com
>


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