From: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.sys.amiga.introduction,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Programming
Date: 15 Nov 1992 19:57:16 -0600
Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth
NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu
Keywords: AMOS, beginners, programming

In article <Bxs1D7.A3o@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> sjjohnst@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Stephen Johnston) writes:

>So AMOS cacn work on one screen or many.  So?  Can it open windows? Will you
>check for us?  I have never seen an AMOS program open on a window.  Maybe
>because it takes over system resources, it wouldn't be able to handle IDCMP
>window events...  And then what use is the program for input and output?

Sure it opens windows.  You can even select a variety of boarders
(including the option for no boarder I think).

>Gee, I have a C tutorial manual in fron of me ythat describes how to use
>more than 8 sprites at once.  It also describes how to use 16 colour sprites,
>and double width sprites.  A simple matter of setting a single flag in the
>sprite structure.  So AMOS doesn't have any advantage here.

You haven't seen the 64 sprites available to AMOS have you?  They can
each be 16 to 128 pixels wide by 1 to 255 pixels high by 16 to 256
pixels deep.  The number and size of bobs are only limited bt memory. 
I'm glad AMOS does not have an advantage, so others can use this too.
FYI, this information was taken directly from the AMOS manual.

>These Euro-Demos usually don't work on multiple machines - those that work
>on an A500 usually dont work on an A3000, those that work on DOS 2.04 won't
>work on DOS 3.0  You're limiting yourself to using one machine.  Ever want to
>upgrade?  Can you ever upgrade your AMOS program, without re-compiling under
>a new version of AMOS?  A system-friendly routine written in C or PASCAL, etc
>probably doesn't need to be re-compiled under different versions of DOS.  I
>regularily use HiSpeed Pascal under DOS 1.3 and 2.04.  As long as my routine
>doesn't use DOS 2.04 specific function calls, it doesn't matter where I
>compile it or run it.

Most AMOS programs are not compiled, so other users can learn by
example.  There are no include files for AMOS.  If one wants to use an
OS specific call (ie open a public screen), we just call the system libraries.
The AMOS Pro upgrad just made the package better (ie, added support for
MED and noisetracker modules, a better editor where you can see the
program running real time RIGHT ON THE EDITOR in a small window, Arexx
support, and more).

>Note 2:  SAS C, Hisoft Corporation, etc, don't release new versions of their
>compilers for specifically for new operating systems either.  I have SAS C
>v5.0 under DOS 2.04.  Do I really need to upgrade to version 6?  Not really.
>I can do everything I want, and use DOS 2.04 to its full advantage now that I
>have the 2.04 includes.  Does AMOS have 'includes' or something similar for
>new versions of DOS?  Or do you have to wait for the upgrade to come out?

Refer to what I have posted above.  Amos works the same under 2.04 as
1.3, with the addition od being able to call the 2.04 specific routines.

>>>BTW, you might be interested to know that the AMOS programs I have
>>>handy fall flat on their faces under 3.0. Just the usual AMOS
>>>"futz-the-copper-list" garbage, then a blank screen.
>>
>>Since you OBVIOUSLY don't program in AMOS, you have NO merrit on this.
>
>Gee, I never knew that it was a requirement to be a programmer to judge
>whether a program works or not...

You misquoted me.  I was referring to a different part of the post.

>>Besides, a LOT of programs don't work when you upgrade to a new OS
>>(including some languages). 
>
>Especially when the program is not system compliant - ie - doesn't use DOS.
>Have you read threads about Commodore not releasing the Hardware Reference
>Guide to AGA?  Commodore doesn't want programmers playing with the system
>directly.  They want people to use DOS.  They strongly hint thtat things will
>change DRASTICALLY with whatever comes after AGA (and this is already under
>development).  And if programs DON'T use DOS, they won't work.  Simple.

Yea, I've heard about it (even though I only have an A2000 and WB 1.3,
student budget you know.  One of the deciding factors in me buying AMOS).

>I disagree.  A programmer should learn from the start to program modularly.
>That means that each module complies with the rules of every other module
>on your program.  One of those 'modules' is the user/dos interface.  If you
>don't comply with these rules, you're not programming well.

Thanks you for agreeing with me.  Amos helps to teach modularity as it
uses sub-programs (procedures).  AMOS can (or a procedure) can call the
operating system whenever.  The dos communication is not the problem
Mike was stating.

>Using Amiga-A to switch screens is NOT system compliant (can you change this
>in your AMOS program?)  Capturing your input stream, so that my screen-blanker
>blanks my AMOS program after 5 minutes is NOT system compliant.

I don't know if I can change this or not.  Funny, though.  My screen
saver works perfectly with AMOS.  I've never had a problem with
multi-tasking. From what I have heard from AMOS Pro users, it can open
on the workbech screen. Perhaps AMOS is not as bad as you thought.

>/===========================+================================================\
>\|  Stephen J. Johnston     |      sjjohnst@descartes.uwaterloo.ca      /// |/
>/|  Computer Science        |  170 University Ave. West, Suite 12-198  ///  |\
>\|  University of Waterloo  |  Why follow, when  /\ |\/| | / _  /\ \\\///   |/
>/|  Ontario, Canada         |  you can lead?    /--\|  | | \_/ /--\ \XX/    |\
>\===========================+================================================/

I hope this clears things up a bit.

If you want specific info, like the window, screen, etc. commands, I
have the manual and can look things up.  Just give me a topic.

BTW, I'm sure Mandarin is working on a verion of AMOS that takes
advantage of the AGA chips (If that is not handled in AMOS Pro). 
Unfortunately, my version was designed for the ECS times (but since most
users have that right now, it works fine for me).

	Thanks
	Robert Fentiman

UseNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu
At: University of Minnesota, Duluth

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.applications