HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elonich@cbnewse.cb.att.com (diane.e.pedersen)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: "Missing out" (was. re:  Justin...)
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:35:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Sep3.173500.15193
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville IL

In article <1992Sep1.222114.12255@cco.caltech.edu>, hough@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Susan Hough) writes:
> In article <1992Sep1.175933.24905@ntmtv> missy@ntmtv.bnr.ca (Missy Iaquinto) writes:
> >|> 
> >|
> >I'm not sure who is hardest on mothers who have drugs, and/or c-sections
> >during their birthing, women who have not experienced labor, women who
> >*have* experienced labor, and refused/did not require intervention, men,
> >doctors, or the mothers themselves.
> 
> I have my own feelings about the answer to this.  Every so often,
> a smug posting appears from someone who had either a wonderfully easy
> delivery or a difficult labor that they toughed out without drugs.
> These letters typically extoll the virtues of unmedicated deliveries and
> the worst of them go on to say that more women could do it IF THEY REALLY
> WANTED TO.  I find this attitude absolutely infuriating, worse than
> anything else I've encountered in this regard.  Aside from just
> the newsgroup, it is a mentality that has turned the natural childbirth
> movement into something of a monster--setting childbirth up as such
> a proving ground for women.  
> 

To help keep things in perspective, maybe we should think back to
the women of several decades ago -- who had no choice.  All births
were vaginal and unmedicated , and usually occurred at home (OK,
there was a rare C-section, but they had much higher surgical risks).  
Also, because there wasn't much birth control, births occurred 
freqeuntly.  

So when anesthesized childbirth was invented, women hailed it as
nigh close to a miracle.  And when C-sections became safer, many
lives were saved and birth injuries prevented.  (My uncle was delivered
in 1929 by "high forceps"; when he was 17 months old, tuberculosis
set into the injury, and he died several months later.  My cousin,
in 1986, waited too long to get to the hospital after full-term labor
was signalled with vaginal bleeding.  They had a vaginal delivery
anyway, and the otherwise-perfect baby died during birth, with the
cord around his neck.)

Birth used to be the biggest killer of women and babies.
Anesthesia during birth started becoming discouraged after
people realized that it could have a negative effect on babies.
So medicine started evolving a priority-balancing philosphy
where health of the mother and child comes first, followed
by making the mother feel comfortable.

But I think the women (and orphans and widowers) of centuries
past would be flabbergasted at the notion that fully experiencing
each phase in the vaginal birth process was a necessary rite
of passage (no pun intended) for motherhood.
-- 
Diane Pedersen
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, Illinois
att!ihlpe!elonich
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: karinc@ssd.intel.com (Karin Coffee)
Subject: Re: Morning siiiiicccccckkkknesssssss.......ulp. ulp
Keywords: nasuea, sick, barf!
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:38:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.163409.25239@wdl.loral.com> christi@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Christine L Hilton) writes:
>tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov (Leigh Ann Tanner) writes:
>
>>In article <21962@suned1.Nswses.Navy.MIL>, lev@ipxed5.nswses.navy.mil (Lloyd E Vancil) writes:
>>|> 
>>|> for my friend sandra.....
>>|> 
>>|> Does anyone out there have a remedy for morning
>>|> sickness other than post partum?
>>|> 
>>|> 
>>|> 
>>|> help please!

The ONLY thing that helped me (and I was nauseous through the first 
trimester and any time I was in the car for 9 months) was LifeSavers!
Especially the 5 flavor kind.  It probably goes along the same lines as
keeping something in your stomach, and I have used LifeSavers and gum for
years on long trips and airplane rides.

Good luck!


 ________________________________________________________________________
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||__|__||__|__||__|__\|__||_|\__|  \_____||____||__|  |__|  |____||____| |
|________________________________________________________________________|
                       |   karinc@SSD.intel.com  |                       
                       |_________________________|
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: tina@bnr.ca (Tina Ley P015)
Subject: Re: Diaper Cover Recommendations
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP 
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:06:41 GMT

In article <6721@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, gaulandm@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Mike Gauland) writes:
|> Any recommendations for diaper covers which don't leak, and seem comfortable
|> (i.e., no sharp edges)? Every one we've tried either leaves a rash on Aidan's
|> tummy, or has too little elastic on the legs.
|> 
|> Thanks,
|> Mike-with-the-poopy-shoes
|> 
|> -- 
|> Michael A. Gauland	gaulandm@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM  
|
> AA7JF			(503) 627-5067

I have been using Gerber brand diaper covers. They don't leak at all!!! I haven't had one blow-by since i switched from the other brands( nikki, dappi, ecokids...etc). They sell for around $6.00 but Baby Diaper Service usually runs a sell about every three months. They also have velcro protecters on them so the don't  tear up everything in your laundry.
From: karen@madhouse.cavebbs.welly.gen.nz ((Karen Hayward))
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Baby Cries in Carseat
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 20:30:12  -2
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hayward Circus, Wellington, New Zealand.

jackie8@dasher.uucp (Jackie Brady) writes:

> In article <1684E6B4C.CREECH@LSTC2VM.stortek.com> CREECH@LSTC2VM.stortek.com 
> >I have a friend with a 6 week old baby boy.  She called in tears last night.
> >Seems that Charles HATES to ride in the car in his carseat.  He cried all th
> >way home from the hospital ( 1 1/2 hours) when he was discharged.  He has
> >cried during almost every car ride he has taken since then (including a trip
> >from Kentucky to Flordia :^( ).
> > [stuff deleted]
> >Since the trip to Flordia (when he spent many hours snuggled in Moms lap
> 				^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >because they couldn't stand the screaming), he has been more clingy and
> >wants to be held, but he doesn't scream uncontrolably anywhere but in the
> >car.
> > 
> I would like to get the opinion from misc.kid.parents out there
> on this one.  I apologize that I'm following up to this article
> w/out offering any suggestions, but seeing this post made me want
> to ask this.
> 
> I know I'm going to get tons of "*you're* not a parent so you can't
> possibly know what it's like to deal with a constantly crying baby...etc"
> responses, but here goes anyway...  When I read of/see parents who hold
> their babies in their laps (for *whatever* reason) it really gets to
> me.  There are far too many stories of children in accidents getting
> thrown right through the windshield or through the window.  Every time
> I see it I get a sickening feeling in my stomach because the parents
> should know better, and would have worse problems than constant crying
> should a car hit them.

Jackie, you're not going to get any flames from me, I agree with you totally.
I have 4 kids, including twins. Both twins were not the greatest when it came
to being in car seats. They both spent various periods screaming. Sometimes
they could be comforted, sometimes not. BUT, they stayed in their car seats
when the car was in motion. They were not held on anyone's lap. I would
prefer to have an unhappy, crying baby than a dead or badly maimed one.
I have seen the results of a three week old baby, being thrown through the
windscreen. The baby died minutes after arriving in emergency. It really
wasn't very recognisable as a human being. She, went through the windscreen
and was thrown about a further 20 metres down the road. It wasn't even a
collision, it was a sudden stop to avoid a collision. Her parents were both
belted in and had no injuries other than minor bruising.
Tragic....yes. Avoidable....yes, the unused infant seat was in the back of
the car. It really is not worth it.

Karen.
From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Are Fetal Heart Monitors needed??
Date: 30 Aug 92 06:14:28 GMT
Organization: Sylvan Associates

I tried to mail this reply, but it bounced.

They are not necessary to be on all the time, and will indeed increase
your risk of heavy intervention, including C-Section. I do have an
article about it, if you want me to dig it up.

Periodically checking the babies heart rate (the alternative) is
just as safe, and leads to less (unnecessary) intervention. They will
check during contractions, to see if the baby is being distressed by
the contractions.

Phillip, there are just no guarantees that everything will go right,
no matter which choices make. I think you should abide by your wife's
preferences during labor as much as possible, as she's going to be the
one birthing the baby, with your assistance. Support her as much a
possible -- that will make more of a difference to the outcome than
any monitor. If she starts to get upset, breathe with her and help her
focus on the task at hand. I cannot emphasis enough that labor support
makes far more of a difference in the outcome than anything else.

Also realize that many women spend a large portion of their labor
outside the hospital (and this is the usual recommended procedure) and
during that whole time NO monitoring is done at all, just like they
only sporatically monitor during the pregnancy. Birth is a natural
unfolding process, and while *some* do require extreme intervention to
come out right, most simply do not.  The more you can trust that
things *can* go well, the easier it will be for you to support your
wife, and if intervention is necessary, the doctors will tell you.

If you want more specific information, I'll dig it up for you.
-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89 &
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: negative attitudes towards breast-feeding
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:40:20 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

In article <BtJMFG.517@acsu.buffalo.edu> gorman@acsu.buffalo.edu (Anne-Marie K. Gorman) writes:
>
>It's really hard, in my limited experience, to change someone's mind about
>breastfeeding.  
>
>	[story about sil who refused to breastfeed deleted]
>
>What can you do?
>

You can allow her to make her own choices and respect her reasons for them.
After all, she may have some very personal, very private reasons she doesn't 
really want to go into with you.  Is it that hard to just be supportive?
-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
From: brett@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Brett K. Carver)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:57:11 GMT
Subject: Re: Morning siiiiicccccckkkknesssssss.......ulp. ulp
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: misc.kids

In misc.kids, lev@ipxed5.nswses.navy.mil (Lloyd E Vancil) writes:
> Does anyone out there have a remedy for morning
> sickness other than post partum?

My wife has a REAL problem with morning sickness.  She has only found one
thing that works for her:  keep food in your stomach ALL THE TIME.

This means lots of little snacks during the day.  She typically eats things
high in protien as it digests slower and stays around longer.  This is
especially important for the last snack before bed as it has to last all
night.

It isn't perfect (she still feels sick) but she throws up a lot less now
(we're on our third) than she did with our first child.

							Brett Carver
							brett@sr.hp.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine)
Subject: More cute things they say [4 1/2 years]
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:50:29 GMT

Yes, I know I've been posting a lot of these lately but .... my
kids are just soooo cute!

Two weeks ago we bought a new car (yay! at last!).  It has cruise
control.  Timmy's definition -- "I know  what cruise control is, mom,
it's the buttons you press on the steering wheel when you forget to
use the pedals!".

Also he explained to me the facts of life the other day -- "God puts
an egg in mommy and a seed in daddy.  After forty days, the daddy puts
the seed on the mommy's egg then puts fertilizer on.  Then the baby
hatches and crawls out from between the mommy's legs!"

-- Misty
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Freak thine elders! (was: differences between boys and girls?)
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:49:08 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.

In article <765209d7872465t102@witsend.uucp> dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions) writes:

>  I had some great talks with my grandmother, who was delighted that
>  men were wearing their hair long AGAIN and growing beards AGAIN.
>  She then told me some great stories of my father's generation and
>  how they scandalized their parents with Butch haircuts and so forth!

This reminds me of a story I read many years ago, probably the late
sixties.  A Jewish college student was home visiting his parents.  It
happened to be St. Patrick's day, and they young man was dressed in
bright green.

Father: "What are you wearing that awful color for?"

Son: "It's St. Patrick's Day."

Father: "But you're Jewish, not Irish Catholic!"

Son: "Yes, but on St. Patrick's day, EVERYONE wears green.  It
shows we understand and identify with the Irish, that we're
really all the same people."

Father (thinks for a moment): "Oh, I get it.  Like the way you
college boys grow long hair and beards so you look like Orthodox
Jews!"

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@ttidca.tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@ttidca.tti.com to you!)
{philabs,psivax,pyramid,quad1,rdlvax,retix,rutgers}!ttidca!reid
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: clg@cray.com (Coni Gehler)
Subject: Re: birth announcement (easy birth stories)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:57:20 CDT

In article <1992Aug28.194006.1489@morrow.stanford.edu> rabbit@leland.Stanford.EDU (Aleta Hanna) writes:
> Easy birth stories! I love to tell mine.
> .
> .	<birth story  deleted>
> .
>Soren was delivered by a wonderful labor room Nurse named Tommy
>Thompson.
>
>************************
>Aleta Hanna
>Maps and Records
>Stanford University
>rabbit@lindy.stanford.edu
>************************* 

So, that's what Tommy did before becoming governor of Wisconsin!

Sorry.  I couldn't resist.  Congratulations, Aleta.

Coni
From: zoe@ism.isc.com (Zoe Friedlander)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: prenatal testing - ultra sounds
Date: 31 Aug 1992 20:01:06 GMT
Organization: SunSoft Inc., Los Angeles, Ca.
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: sparkle

I have had several ultrasounds and my doctor said specifically that
I did not need to drink any water or do anything at all to prepare.

Just my two cents.

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mrp@world.std.com (Marjorie R Peskin)
Subject: Re: cradle cap
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 01:47:10 GMT

In article <2420.9208121648@bonzo.xylogics.com> rollo@xylogics.com (Dena Rollo) writes:
>
>My pediatrician's office has a clipping
>up on the bulletin board that says that
>people have had *great* results using
>Paul Mitchell brand baby shampoo for
>eczema/cradle cap. It says that some
>parents have used it as a body bath as well,
>for eczema that's not confined to the scalp.
>
>Haven't had to try this, so I don't have
>any personal experience with it, but it
>probably couldn't hurt. (around here,
>Paul Mitchell shampoos are available
>at beauty parlors/salons. this is their
>*baby* shampoo, not the regular)

Just my $.02 about Paul Mitchell products, and NO I don't work for them.  But
I would recommend purchasing them for your cradle cap baby and for yourself
because they don't test on animals, something Johnson and Johnson or
Proctor and Gamble can't say about their products.  Its hard to talk to
kids about how cute bunnies are when you use products that kill them for
no reason.

Marjorie
>
>-Dena


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: owens@jonquil.uchicago.edu (Christopher Owens)
Subject: Re: Ultrasounds
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, The Univ of Chicago
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:31:47 GMT

In article <1831dfINNdf8@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> nola@cats.ucsc.edu (Nola Van Vugt) writes:

> If [fetal damage due to ultrasound] was occurring in humans you
> would expect to see a higher incidence in birth defects in the
> children of the people who were exposed to ultrasound in utero. 

I would expect to see a higher incidence of birth defects in the
children of people who were exposed to ultrasound in utero, even if
ultrasound was causing no fetal damage.

One would expect that mothers who had some reason to suspect that
something might be wrong (high-risk pregnancy, family history of
genetic problems, advanced maternal age) would be over-represented
among those choosing ultrasound and, consequently, that the incidence
of birth defects among those who had had ultrasound exams would be
higher than among those who had not, irrespective of any causal role
of ultrasound in birth defects.

In order to accurately assess the effect of ultrasound, one might
perform a very careful balanced study in which a group of ultrasound
mothers were matched for all known birth defect risk factors with a
group of non-ultrasound mothers, or one might perform a study in which
women were randomly assigned to ultrasound or non-ultrasound
conditions.  Doing an unambiguously good job at the former type of
study is extremely difficult,  while the ethical factors militating
against the latter study (e.g. frivolously imposing otherwise unneeded
ultrasound exams for experimental reasons) are fairly obvious.
From: kathyj@pyramid.COM (Kathy Johnson )
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Tax-deductible Childcare Expenses?
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:49:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View, California

In article <1992Aug25.172126.2579@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com>, elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade) writes:
 
|> 
|> Yes, it really is possible to pay day care costs -- up to $5000 per 
|> year from pretax dollars.  (The $$ deducted reduce your W2 wages.
|> The difference shows up as one of the non-taxable benefits.) It is 
|> also possible to pay non-reimbursed medical expenses, like eye glasses 
|> through a similar account.  Ther are some restrictions on how the $$ 
|> are deducted and reimbursed.  The program must be offered through 
|> your employer -- TI does this.  Also, if you do take the pretax dollars, 
|> you cannot claim the child care deduction.  
|> Elise.
Last year my tax accountant asked if we had held up to the maximum (5,000) in the
pretax account and implied that if you have not held up to the maximum that you
may still qualify for some deductions.  We had held the maximum so didn't apply
to us.

-- 

       kathyj@pyramid.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: guido@island.COM (Guido Marx)
Subject: Re: differences between boys and girls
Keywords: Boys Girls
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.  San Rafael, Ca.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:34:55 GMT


My wife and I have a son who recently turned two.  We are just starting
to try and have another baby.  We have discussed it and we both would
like a daughter.  HOWEVER, we aren't obsessing over this - if we have
another son we will be ecstatic.  I would like a daughter simply 
because I would like the experience of having a daughter.  I realize
that the biggest differences between children are simply in their
personalities, and don't depend on their sexes.  That said, there are
differences between boys and girls.  Anyway, no matter what the sex
of this next child, we aren't going to have another unless we want
another child, regardless of the sex.  Having a child simply because
you want a particular sex is silly IMHO.

Guido
From: joanne@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Joanne Petersen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:44:47 GMT
Subject: Re: PLEASE, PLEASE READ! Please help!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard PAITC Data Center
Newsgroups: misc.kids

At 10 months, shouldn't your son be eating some solid foods (rice cereal, 
at least)?  And won't he allow his dad to feed those to him?  Mixing the
formula milk into rice cereal should be an acceptable alternative.... try
it with him!  (We used Similac with iron, but I'm sure there are other
alternatives if you don't like that brand.)

I understand your concern with getting breast milk to him, and I know that
for some women it's difficult to express breast milk.  I used a battery-
operated pump (Gentle Expressions brand) and found that would work when I
couldn't use the manually operated pump (or my hand) well enough.  That's
another option to try.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: ted@zeus.ocs.com (Ted Scott)
Subject: Garbage Trucks  (was Re: Vehicle connoisseurs)
Organization: Online Computer Systems, Inc.  Germantown, Md., 20874
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 14:45:54 GMT

lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom) writes:
: In article <ANNE.92Aug24135532@dolores.Stanford.EDU> anne@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Anne Paulson) writes:
: >Laura Floom writes that her son is completely fascinated with garbage
: >trucks. 

some may consider this offensive:
^L
About a year ago, I was taking Lindsay to daycare following this Garbage
Truck. I was in my normal A.M. stupor, and had to do a triple take...

There bolted up to the liscense plate was the yuppie vehicle mantra:

BABY ON BOARD 

--

-Ted Scott          
tscott@ocsmd.ocs.com           I was told that I'm a P.C. person:
(301) 601-2252                               Politically Challenged, that is.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Booster seats in aircraft
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:47:16 GMT

On Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:02:40 GMT, betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry) said:
Betsy> Nntp-Posting-Host: astaire.ch.apollo.hp.com

Betsy> In article <SHAFER.92Aug28100837@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov> shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:
>There was a little article in this morning's LA Times pointing out
>that one should _not_ use booster seats onboard aircraft.  All the
>major airlines recommend that you not use them, but they are not
>prohibited in the FARs.
>
>The reason for not using them is that aircraft seats will fold forward
>in an impact, injuring the child.  This doesn't happen in cars.

Betsy> I'd like to clarify that this refers to *booster* seats, not
Betsy> *infant-toddler* seats (the hard plastic ones).  Infant-toddler
Betsy> seats have a sticker on them certifying that they are safe for
Betsy> use on airplanes.

Quite correct, Betsy.  Let me repeat this--booster seats bad, regular
infant-toddler seats good.  (You will be tested on this material.)

However, since the FAA had made a blanket acceptance of any
DOT-approved device, the booster seats are also _legal_ in aircraft.
They're just a bad idea.  The FAA is, apparently, working on adding
this to the FARs, but the comment period, etc, takes some time.

Alphabet soup:
DOT     Department of Transportation
FAA     Federal Aviation Administration
FAR     Federal Aviation Regulation

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous