HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mukasa@panix.com (Michael Mukasa)
Subject: Re: Gay AFRICANS OSELE
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:45:29 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

In <Bxtz7r.Ht9@acsu.buffalo.edu> osele@acsu.buffalo.edu (itiakorit j osele) writes:


>The point here really is if homosexuality is there, give us the
>evidence of its' existence, not making unwieldly statement like you did

>Itiakorit

You have hit the nail on the head.  I have come to believe that these
people cannot believe that because a disgusting and 'sick' vice is
prevelant and growing in their society, it also has to be prevelant in
ours. They cannot for an instant stomach the possibility that there can be
something in our society that is better than theirs.  Next they will be
saying that psychotic, canibalistic mass murders who have sex with dead
bodies, like Geffry Domler (Sp?) are also prevelant in our society.  What
percentages are they going to give us for this one??  African society has
been influenced by the west but we are not and I repeat NOT in the moral
abyss your society is.  

Kiggundu.
From: adavies@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Anthony Davies)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT
Date: 15 Nov 92 17:59:25 GMT
Organization: Institute of Virology, Oxford

> If Homosexuality is one the benefits of the great western culture, then we 
>will elect to remain uncouth.
> 
> 
> makala
-- 
Makala, the unfortunate thing is that you're aligning yourself with some of the 
least "desirable" echelons of the West.  Electing your attitude to 
homosexuality usually results in the rest of the package appearing too: I 
should know, as it's been government policy here for 13 years....

Western culture isn't a package deal - some of it's bad, some of it's good.  
Don't we all wish life was simpler.  Shades of grey, Makala: shades of grey.

Anthony Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
                Vax:   adavies@vax.path.ox.uk.ac (preferred)
                       adavies@vax.ox.uk.ac (this account)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: Kou-wa-banga Afrikana! (was Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT)
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:34:23 GMT

In <1992Nov20.131746.5646@sunvax.sun.ac.za> 9027882@sunvax.sun.ac.za writes:

>                                            Cape Penisial (sp?).

We were wondering about that....  no wonder Makala is worried about the
Western Cape.
-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
From: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: AFRICA'S BLEAK FUTURE
Date: 23 Nov 92 23:47:50 GMT
Reply-To: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Organization: Swarthmore College

gds@cs.uct.ac.za writes:
> P.TENGENDE@cowan.edu.au wrote:
> >your general assumption that "our situation has collapsed", will not find a lot
> >of sympathisers on the group for the simple reason that we cannot be expected
> >to shoulder all the blame for our current state of affairs when we know that
> >those who are responsible for it in the first place are trying to walk away
> >Scott-free.
> 
> Isn't this to a large degree our problem in Africa - wanting others to fix
> things?  Yes, they broke it (for the most part), but should we not rather
> spend our energies in fixing it and ensuring that "the outsiders" would not
> be able to break it again, rather than getting than constantly wanting them
> to fix it when they probably won't fix it the right way anyway?  We
> Africans should sort solve our own problems (we can't do it totally on our
> own - the world is too much of a global village already) and only then,
> from a position of equality (or even superiority) we can look the rest of
> the world straight in the eye and say "and what are you now going to do
> about the mess you made and we cleaned up?"  We would then also be in a
> position to get them to do something.

my uncle once told: "if a workman messes up anything in the house, you get
them to fix it, only this time you stand over their shoulder and make sure
that they carry out your wishes."
reflect on that.

[stuff deleted


phoka
> -- 
> Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
> University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
From: 8934959@sunvax.sun.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Kou-wa-banga Afrikana! (was Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT)
Date: 21 Nov 92 23:33:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: sunvax.1992Nov21.213359.5650
Organization: University of Stellenbosch

In article <1992Nov18.201333.5643@sunvax.sun.ac.za><Johan Ferreria> writes:

> 
> Ek weet dat Engels die Usenet taal is, maar aangesien hierdie 'n
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> soc.* groep is, dink ek dis geregverdig om in 'n "soc.african" taal
> te skryf.  

 Translation of the underlined portion :
    "I know that English is the language of Usenet,"

But you chose to post in Afrikaans.  To each his own, I can't stop you but
you go on to say....

>Wat is die gevoel van andere?
 
 = "What are others' feelings (/opinions)"

That includes me, so I gave you mine.  Weren't you ready for them?

In a later article you question my patriotism. I find this incomprehensible.
You perhaps expected me to encourage you to post in Afrikaans, especially since
I am studying at an "Afrikaans" university.

Well I'm sorry to disapoint you, but if I encourage you to post in Afrikaans,
then I should also encourage others to write in Xhosa, Tswana, Zulu, Sotho,
etc,etc. Last time I "checked" they were also Africans. Then we could rename
the group s.c.a.chaos.



PS. If you would like an Afrikaans translation of the above, mail me. I have
    neither the time nor the inclination to use a 'stereo' approach.

James Micklem
micklem@cs.sun.ac.za          Stellenbosch University

                    --Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker
                            --Ogden Nash
From: fassnach@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Chris Fassnacht)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:20:47 GMT
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA

In article <VS8SBPQJ@cc.swarthmore.edu> imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng) writes:
>adavies@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Anthony Davies) writes:
><<<<Stuf deleted>>>>>
>
>> Western culture isn't a package deal - some of it's bad, some of it's good.  
>> Don't we all wish life was simpler.  Shades of grey, Makala: shades of grey.
>Dave man, thanks for these few words man.  I wish that most the white
>audience out there can learn to accept this.  Better still, learn to live
>confortably with the fact that their cultures are not so godly afterall.   
>
>frankly i am sick and tired of reading about how bad the african culture
>is.  i will like to think that there will be no need for my brothers makala
>and mweene to throw the f- and other unpleasnt words at white people had
>they not devoted so much time in attacking the african culture.  i do
>understand that there are some bad things in every culture and that there is a
>need for some of them to be changed, but as an african i am tired of seeing
>white people constantly attacking my culture without once acknowledging
>the good things in it.
>i am wondering then whether this is another of those excercises meant to
>marginalise us.  they invited themselves to africa and, through years of
>colonization, striped us of all that we had.  our culture is all that we
>have left to keep us together.   
>Please, please, stp marginalising it.
>
>phoka

The sentiments expressed in the above posting are right on.  I think that
there are good things and bad things in every culture and to just
focus on one side is unfair to all concerned.

I lived in Ghana for two years and there were many aspects to Ghanaian
culture that I wish we had here in the States.  The Ghanaians with
whom I lived and worked prided themselves on their hospitality and
friendliness, and with good reason.  Ghanaians are, to generalize, the
friendliest and most open people I have ever met.  They certainly did
their best to make a white stranger feel at home.  I am no social
scientist, but it seems to me that these characteristics are a natural
outgrowth of the extended family system that exists in Ghana, and from
what I've read, in many other African cultures as well.  Boy was it a
shock to come back to the States and see all the cold, unfriendly
faces of people rushing from place to place.

None of us lives in a perfect society.  We should try to keep this in
mind.

Chris
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Southern African Sport
Date: 15 Nov 92 22:48:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucthpx.1992Nov15.224849.21524
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4


I am glad somebody has been posting S. African Rugby Tour matches scores to the 
group. I could smell a hint of some subjects who were missing the point
altogether and were trying to bring across the question of Blacks in S African
teams, and I just thought I could bring the following observation to 
those who care to look at facts without prejudice and without reading between
the lines:

1) Zimbabwe's Rugby team, which has been to the last two world cup contests
has fewer than 5 blacks who command regular positions in the squad.

2) Zimbabwe's Cricket team, which recently gained test status, is composed
almost entirely of non-blacks.

3) Zimbabwe's Soccer team, which is enjoying some success , apart from 
Liverpool's Bruce Grobelaar, is made up entirely of non-whites.

4) Rugby is the fastest growing sport in Zimbabwe.

My reason for bringing this is that while to some rascist minded person
who has never been to Zimbabwe, it does look like there could be a problem
here, the fact of the matter is there is no problem at all. Rugby and cricket
are sports introduced to Blacks some ten years ago. Especially for 
cricket, a lot of money is required to buy the equipment, and the time required
practising in the nets is quite substantial as anybody who knows anything about
cricket can testify. Remember, people who started playing cricket at age nine
10 years ago are still only 19 , and indeed several young black cricketers 
have recently been considereed for national select ( F. Nhongerayi and
G. Dube), and provincial schoolboy teams (bothe Rugby and Cricket) are beginning to show numbers that
reflect the racial composition of the Nation and in a few years, these are the
same people who will be competing at the senior level.

To the sport-loving S. africans who've been posting scores lately, Keep us
updated. We (Zimbabwe) drew with India in our inaugaral Test Cricket Match, and I hope S. Africa wins the current series against India.


To cricket lovers: Recently, Zimbabwe , I understand, expressed interest in
entering the Castle Cup Competitions. Any further developments?
We in Zimbabwe need this to improve our competiveness because we were sick of
everyone's B team coming to play in Zimbabwe.

  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peterson Kanyimo Tengende           |
P.TENGENDE@bluering.cowan.edu.au    |  "To be or not to be? Thats the question."
Tel +619 370 2851                   |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: Kou-wa-banga Afrikana! (was Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT)
Reply-To: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:49:37 GMT

THANKS FOR TH WONDEFUL POSTING.. WHAT IS THE MOOD AT STELLEBOSCH ABOUT
THE RECENT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT THE SECRET GOVERNMENT ACTIVITIES. 
I WOULD ALSO WISH TO HEAR FROM  UN PRETORIA.

THANKS
MADIMETJA
From: yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Millions of girls brutally mutilat
Date: 15 Nov 92 22:48:20 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <Bxq42w.D60@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta) writes:
>In article <1992Nov14.195708.22710@cs.wm.edu> sunny@al.cs.wm.edu (John S. Egbo) writes:
>>While no culture is perfect, you people in S.A. are trying too hard to
>>convince yourselves that the "White way" is the only way by finding faults
>>with African cultures.  Why so much spin?  Is it because your heart bleed
>>for these African children you are supposedly speaking for? 
>>
>>If your heart is bleeding for solutions, I will suggest a number of things
>>in your culture you can work on to make this world a better place for
>>everyone including those African babies.  First, stop your barbaric
>>propaganda.  Second, work to create a humane government in South Africa and
>>equality for every South African. Third, pressure western governments to stop
>>these nuclear arms race and over militarism in its culture; it has done more
>>harm to African children than any genital circumcision would ever do.  Who
>>are you afraid of anyway?  Fourth, find permanent solutions for the nuclear
>>waste before you build anymore shit that generate such wastes; every black
>>civilization from Nubia to Egypt to Songhai to Mali came and went without
>>leaving everlasting burden for its children.
>>
>>While you work on the above four (just to name a few) issues, I pledge to
>>work with other Africans to find solutions for many African cultural 
>>problems including genital circumcision.  Deal?
>>
>>-Sunny
>
>Word!!! It couldn't have been put better!! Let's wait and see what THEY have
>to say to this.......

Don't know what "They" will say to this, but I've certainly heard the 
same argument from white south africans before. Something about how
"you americans should deal with your own problems before complaining
about apartheid." It's always possible to find an excuse for the barbarism
of one's own culture in the barbarisms of another culture. Should the US
have failed to impose a boycott on SA until the American Indians received
a fair deal? Should Zambia have refused to aid ZANU-PF forces until Zambians
had solved their own social problems?  By the way,
I've noticed that we have not seen any postings from African women
supporting the use of cultural weapons against little girls. 

-- 


yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Star Editorial (long - was Re: Scandal alert: more to follow)
Date: 17 Nov 92 11:13:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: shannon.1992Nov17.111300.4312
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Xxdate: Tue, 17 Nov 92 12:53:56 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12

As promised in my earlier posting here's more. Front page editorial
comment
from the Star:

The Truth Must Out

The Goldstone Commission revelations yesterday provide irrefutable
evidence
of moral corruptio, not to say depravity, at the highest level of the
South African Defence Force.

These revelations will send the country reeling -- yet, paradoxically,
they
will not come as a surprise to those who have watched, dismayed, as
military paranoia and deceit have grown by bounds in recent years.
o it is chilling enough to learn that Military Intelligence hired
  notorious double murderer Ferdi Barnard to head a covert unit that would
  use prostitutes, homosexuals and drug dealers in a dirty-tricks
operation
  against Umkhonto we Sizwe. Is willingness to murder Barnard's key
  qualification?
o more chilling still is to discover that the operation originated with
the Chief
  of Staff Intelligence, Lieutenant-General Rudolph (Witkop) Badenhorst,
  and ended with the intervention of the Minister of Defence himself.
o But it is most chilling of all to realize that this operation began only
  last year, in the midst of what is supposedly a time of reconciliation,
  and that there are hundreds of MI files that have yet to be examined and
  which may offer proof of other indefensibile activities.

Can it be that we are about to find out more about the sinister Third
Force -- or at least one limb of it?

Blind Eye

Judge Goldstone's investigation has raisde appalling questions. Did the
State President and his Cabinet know nothing of this plot? Does their
fiefdom hold so little sway that they cannot deliver on their promises
of good government and good faith in negotiation? Have they lost control
of their own security forces? Or are they simply still turning a blind
eye?

We do not know the answers yet. Nor are we so naive as to imagine that the
SADF has a monopoly on dirty tricks.

What we do know is that President de Klerk dare not turn down the
Goldstone Commission's recommendation that it be authorized to
investigate,
as a matter of urgency, all formal and informal security forces in South
Africa, including certain private "security firms". The country could not
withstand another cover-up; neither could De Klerk's own reputation.

A boil has been lanced and the ugly truth is beginning to come out. We
can only hope it comes out fast enough to stem the violence and anarchy
that is engulfing the country.
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: nrswart@phonon.uwaterloo.ca (Nicholas R. Swart)
Subject: Re: Posting language
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:24:42 GMT

In article <1efflgINNc6r@daisy.ee.und.ac.za> barrett@daisy.ee.und.ac.za (Alan P Barrett) writes:
>In article <NT0SBQKC@cc.swarthmore.edu>,
>imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng) writes:
>> share the info in a language that all people can understand that wy it
>> becomes power, not a source of aggravation.
>
>I agree.  If you want to post something that works only in another
>language (such as a joke), please try to post an English translation
>as well.
>
>--apb (Alan Barrett)

I disagree completely. Jokes are best told in the language of their 'mother
tongue' so to speak. Too much is lost in the translation.

Nicholas
From: kartik@hls.com (Kartik Chandrasekhar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: South African Expression
Date: 20 Nov 1992 10:51:49 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Hi,

	Today while listening to a report on the social and political
turmoil in South Africa I heard the reporter use a word which 
according to him literally meant "meeting in the bush".
(In the context of a meeting between the ANC and the Government)

	It sounded very similar to the native American POWWOW and 
appeared to be a popular expression in South Africa.  I do not 
know if the word is afrikaans but it sounded local to South Africa.
I have forgotten the word and  would like someone to help me out.

Thanks in advance

kartik
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Subject: Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT
Reply-To: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 05:02:07 GMT

adavies@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Anthony Davies) writes:
<<<<Stuf deleted>>>>>

> Western culture isn't a package deal - some of it's bad, some of it's good.  
> Don't we all wish life was simpler.  Shades of grey, Makala: shades of grey.
Dave man, thanks for these few words man.  I wish that most the white
audience out there can learn to accept this.  Better still, learn to live
confortably with the fact that their cultures are not so godly afterall.   



> Anthony Davies
> ________________________________________________________________________________
>                 Vax:   adavies@vax.path.ox.uk.ac (preferred)
>                        adavies@vax.ox.uk.ac (this account)

frankly i am sick and tired of reading about how bad the african culture
is.  i will like to think that there will be no need for my brothers makala
and mweene to throw the f- and other unpleasnt words at white people had
they not devoted so much time in attacking the african culture.  i do
understand that there are some bad things in every culture and that there is a
need for some of them to be changed, but as an african i am tired of seeing
white people constantly attacking my culture without once acknowledging
the good things in it.
i am wondering then whether this is another of those excercises meant to
marginalise us.  they invited themselves to africa and, through years of
colonization, striped us of all that we had.  our culture is all that we
have left to keep us together.   
Please, please, stp marginalising it.

phoka
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: 0112wilz@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (zane wilson)
Subject: Re: Absence of black posters from SA
Organization: Computer Science, University of the Witwatersrand
Date: 16 Nov 92 08:52:55 GMT

In <9418@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:

>I am not asking you to find an obscure primary school whic has one comp
>uter and parade it as an example of opportunity for black people. What
>about the students in you University, why are the blacks not allowed
>to post.

Goodness, Mr Mweene just doesn't get it, does he. They are, plain and simple.

>I talked to my fiends Kaiser Modise and Jabulani Tambo who go the Univer
>sity of Cape Town. They tell me it is the most racist place you could
>ever go to. A black man had better watch his step or he will be gone.

Oh, fascinating. So why didn't all the students (black and white, but mainly black) who demonstrated publically and violently get kicked out?

>A black man who wants to go in the sciences is discouraged. Most of the
>amenities are reserved for whites. The student union is infiltrated by
>the Burea of State Security and the broederbond. A lot of the white students
>support Eugene Terreblanche.

That's quite funny. Here we hear allegations that the Student Councils and SRC's
are infiltrated by the ANC!

>I asked them if they used the computer at all. They said yes but only for
>homework and other academic stuff. Everything was strictly monitored by
>the white supervisers and printing of personal stuff was discouraged and
>in the case of blacks illegal. I expalined the debate on the net. They

Oh, crap. I know this doesn't happen
eEveryone is free to make printouts, even if they have NOTHING to do with
the course (though this is of course discouraged).

>When I informed them of the discussion on the net, they got animated and
>wished they had the opportunity to participate and set the boers straight.
>They thanked me for doing a good job and asked me to keep it up.

They will have the opportunity as soon as they sit down and type 'nn' or 
NETNEWS. And the SRC, active as it is in favour of black rights, will make
sure that they are allowed to.

>I aked again why they did not post, and just when they were going to start saying someting there was a click and the line was cut.

Goodness, an overseas call being cut off! Must be racist whites doing it!
Couldn't possibly be the unreliability of the phone system