HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Garry Bjorklund HS Mile
From: dmika@charlie.usd.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:06:17 GMT
Reply-To: dmika@charlie.usd.edu
Organization: The University of South Dakota Computer Science Dept.

I believe Bjorklund ran 4:05 his senior year; the best HS time in the nation
that year (Prefontaine was #2).  He and Mike Slack hooked up at the state meetand went through the half in something like 1:55 (OUCH!).  Slack ended up 
running something like 3:38 a few years after graduating from North Dakota
State U.  There were a lot of promising HS distance runners in the 70's,
but I think Danielson was the last to break 4:00 while still in high school.

Dan Mika
dmika@charlie.usd.edu
From: rm0b@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROGELIO MACIAS-ORDONEZ)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Yet another ITB question?
Date: 24 Jan 93 00:17:09 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <93020.005135AGRGB@ASUACAD.BITNET>, AGRGB@ASUACAD.BITNET writes:
>Hey now,
>
>I know lots of us have ITB problems. My current physical therapist (my
>orthopedic sent me to this guy) is now suggesting that I have ultrasound
>directly on the ITB. Ignoring the excessive cost of this procedure, what do
>you think? Can this help (or hurt)? Has anyone had any success with this?
>Thanks in advance!
>Ramble on,  Rich
>
I over-supinate. I had ITB problems a few months ago, after a couple of times
just resting and trying to run again it was getting worse so I saw an
specialist and he sent me to ultra-sound therapy and stretch program. I got
better after one month or so but not totally recovered, in fact after 20 or 30
minutes running it starts hurting again. So it has not worked perfectly for me
but I have improved. In any case it is worth trying before you think of steroid
injections or surgery. I posted some references on this list a few months ago
on ITB syndrome, if you are interested I can either send them to you or post
them again. I am really terrified not to be able to run a happy hour ever
again but patience seems to be the best way to go.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: berkery@emmax5crd.ge.com (jack berkery)
Subject: Re: running barefoot 
Reply-To: berkery@emmax5crd.ge.com (jack berkery)
Organization: GE Research Center
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:15:27 GMT


>
> Does the same hold for elite marathoners?  
> Back in the 70's I had read advice about having the forefoot hit first,
> roll back on the heel, then come forward off the toes.  While at Stanford in
> the early 80's, I heard Brooks Johnson give similar advice (while also
> encouraging barefoot running).  I tried to shift my footplant, but always
> felt awkward.  I eventually ran a 2:22 marathon as a heel-striker, really
> only landing on the forefoot in races when I was running 4:45/mile or faster.
>	What do the rest of you think?  Is footplant very important?
>
>	Coty Pinckney			Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu

With marathoners it shouldn't be nearly toe-striking, which is probably what
you were trying to do. Long distance runners would do better with a flat
but still "active" foot plant. 

Remember the TV comentator who tried to analyze the stride mechanics of the
Barcelona Oly marathoners? He went into detail about stride angle and stride
length and knee lift and body position. Well, the main reason for developin
the correct form is to have the foot in the correct position before touchdown.

Get someone to video tape your stride and play it back in slo-mo. The instant
before impact, the foot should be moving backwards. That's "ACTIVE". To get
there requires a high heel lift, then you swing the leg under the butt with
the lower leg tucked in tightly, high knee lift and the bottom of the foot
should be paralell to the ground as the lower leg swings forward. (Most
people will point the toes down.) It takes concentration and much practice.
Work on it for 5k first, then try to hold it as long as you can for 10k and
gradually work up in distance all the while concentrating on stride mechanics.

It ain't easy.

Re: the barefoot thread. Yes indeed it is a good idea. It strengthens the foot
muscles and connective tissues. I wrote something about that recently too.
I'll post it in a few minutes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Berkery, Computer Scientist, GE Research, Schenectady NY
  berkery@crd.ge.com  "The Common Sense Coach"
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page)
Subject: Re: Is running with shin splints okay?
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 19:49:04 GMT

If you have shin splints, and you stop running for six weeks, they will get
better.  However, you will have treated the symptom, and not the cause.  Ie.,
if you start running again after six weeks, and do exactly what you did before,
you will get shin splints again.  So, whether or not you stop running is a
matter of how you want to treat the symptoms;  if it hurts too muchs, stop.  If
you can't get them to start healing while continuing to run, stop.

But far more important is figuring out what caused them, and thereby figuring
out what you are going to do differently in the future.  I suggest some
combination of:
replace the worn out shoes, get a more appropriate kind of shoe, get a
corrective orthotic device, run on a softer surface, run less total miliage,
do less speed work, strengthen your shins, stretch your calf muscles and
achilles tendon, etc.  If you find out which of these does the trick, you
may be able to continue to run (by icing your shins before and after running)
while you heal.  If you don't find out your magic cure, you wont be able to
run anyway. 
-- 
-----------------------------		-------------------------------
Thomas W. Page, Jr.			email:   page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu
3531 Boelter Hall			day:     310 206-8696
Department of Computer Science		evening: 310 398-1830
University of California
Los Angeles, 90024-1596
From: fkittred@spchp13.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast (rebutal)
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:04:19
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., 10 Moulton Street, Cambridge, MA
	02138
	<FKITTRED.93Jan23200913@spchp13.BBN.COM>
	<1k0strINNnq7@savoy.cc.williams.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: spchp13.bbn.com
In-reply-to: Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu's message of 25 Jan 1993 14:19:39 GMT

In article <1k0strINNnq7@savoy.cc.williams.edu> Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu writes:
>In article <FKITTRED.93Jan23200913@spchp13.BBN.COM> fkittred@spchp13.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge) writes:
>> I think this is complete hogwash:
>(Much has been deleted from above)

	   We could continue the discussion of (1) and (2) above on 
>soc.culture.african.

Right, like I would want to wade through several hundred postings on
female circumcision and gays in Africa.  No thanks.
> If you'll reread my original post, you will see
>that in terms of running, our points are identical (except for (4) 
>above, with which I disagree): genetics plays at most a small role 
>in explaining the difference between Kenyan and American distance
>runners, and the possibility of fame and fortune from becoming a 
>world-class runner engenders tremendous efforts by young Kenyans.

I believe I made it very clear in my posting that I mostly agreed with
you and directed my criticism with Runner's World.

	   No one has yet replied to my question about the physical 
>benefits of spending childhood barefoot.  Am I completely off the
>wall?

I have no opinion (other than it is more likely than a genetic
explanation!), but would like to add the additional information that
it is running barefoot on dirt paths and roads.

regards,
fletcher
--
/* Fletcher Kittredge
 * BBN Software Products
 * 150 CambridgePark Dr,  Cambridge, MA. 02140
 * 617-USE-FINK  /  fkittred@bbn.com  /  fkittred@das.harvard.edu
 */
From: gkc@freddie.udev.cdc.com (gordon k chace x2367)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Dukin' it out. Re: Dick Beardsley Injured
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:12:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.091418.3331@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, A.M.T.Bell@daresbury.ac.uk (A.M.T. Bell) writes:
|> ...Beardsley's injury...
|> He's famous over here for his intentional dead-heat with Inge Simonsen 
|> ...
|> I recall that in the 1982 Boston marathon he had a real tussle at the end with
|> Salazar, I wonder if they ever considered running in together in that one?

In various press interviews of that era, Salazar presented himself as a
fairly aggresive and confident personality.  If that image was correct,
it's unlikely he would have discussed any intentional tie.  Note that in
the media buildup for the 1982 New York Marathon, which was expected to
be a rematch for Salazar and Beardsley, Salazar made various "I'll beat
him" comments.  (It turned out that event was the beginning of the end
for Beardsley's career, and it was an entirely different person 
who had a dramatic finish with Salazar.  And that event turned out
to be the end of the beginning for Salazar)

Having met Beardsley in person, watched him train and compete, plus 
listened to his speeches, I can say that he shows no signs of a 
Type-A personality.  He runs for love, and winning is just a bonus.

Note that in more recent years, Salazar's public personality has toned
down greatly.  When Beardsley suffered his uninsured farming injury a few
years ago, Salazar joined in on the public donations.

Disclaimer: I have commented on Salazar's public personality, but make no
claim of knowing his private personality.

Second Disclaimer:  Of course I am prejudiced in favor of Beardsley, like
him I cannot run properly without wearing a hat.

-- 
Gordon K. Chace                                 voice (612) 482-6524
Control Data Systems, Inc.                      fax   (612) 482-2791
4201 N. Lexington, Arden Hills, MN, USA 55126   email gordon.chace@cdc.com
RISC: Really Invented on the Sixty-six-hundred by CDC
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Magdi N Azer)
Subject: Causes for Shin Splints? A Theory
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 06:01:55 GMT


	I posted earlier this week about shin splints, and how mine seem to
occur at the indoor 200m track here at the U of I, but nowhere else.  I have
formulated a hypothesis about this, and I would appreciate any input as to
correctness/incorrectness of my suppositions.

	1)  As I understand it, shin splints results because the calf muscle is
stronger than the muscles on the front of the leg; therefore exercises to
strengthen the muscles on the shin will help to prevent people who are
prone to shin splints.

	2)  On misc.fitness today, someone posted that one such exercise is to
tap your foot 100 times with your foot pointing three different postions a)
inward b) straight out, and (c) outward.  He claimed it worked wonders on his
wife's shin splints.  I tried this, and really felt a burn in my shins.

	3)  Based on my experience with the exercise suggested above, and the
fact that I have only felt this pain ice skating and after a hard day skiin, I
thought that this exercise strenghthens the muscle on the shin (in my case,
fatigued the muscle on the shin) because it isolates the muscle and gives it a
good workout.

	4)  From the logic of the above three observations, I concluded that
the reason I get shin splints on the indoor track at the U of I Armory is
because I am repetitively doing a motion/exercise that isolates the
weakness in my shin (Running on a flat surface).  The reason I only get shin
splints or soreness on the Armory track is that other places I run (Either
outside or on a suspended, banked track) is becuase in the case of being
outside and on the banked track, I am not constantly isolating my shin.
Instead, the motion of my foot as I travel across different terrains helps not
to isolate my shin.  Also the suspended track has superior cushioning.

	Is my logic correct or am I just blowing steam.  Any input is
aprreciated.

*****************************************************************************'
*****************************************************************************'

|
|      o        	Magdi N. Azer
|---    \       	Center for Laser-Aided Materials Processing (CLAMP)
|\|/   O/       	Department of Mechanical and Industrial Engineering
|    \/|        	University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
|     / \       	1206 W. Green Street
|     \  \      	Urbana, IL 61801
|               	Ph: (217) 333-5989
|               	email: magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu

*****************************************************************************'
*****************************************************************************'
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: passier@bmerh9a1.BNR.CA (Chris Passier)
Subject: Re: Garry Bjorklund HS Mile
Reply-To: passier@bmerh9a1.BNR.CA (Chris Passier)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 16:48:10 GMT

In article <C18M2H.29x@sunfish.usd.edu>, dmika@charlie.usd.edu writes:
|>I believe Bjorklund ran 4:05 his senior year; the best HS time in the nation
|>that year (Prefontaine was #2).  He and Mike Slack hooked up at the
state meetand went through the half in something like 1:55 (OUCH!). 
Slack ended up 
|>running something like 3:38 a few years after graduating from North Dakota
                         ^^^^
                         3:58?
|>State U.  There were a lot of promising HS distance runners in the 70's,
|>but I think Danielson was the last to break 4:00 while still in high school.
|>
|>Dan Mika
|>dmika@charlie.usd.edu
        
=======================================================================
Chris J. Passier        |splish...splash...splish...splash...splish....
passier@x400gate.bnr.ca |squeak....creak....squeak...creak...squeak....
613.763.8909            |slap slap puff..slap slap puff..slap slap puff
BNR, Ottawa, Canada     |.... aaahhhhhhhhhhh!              Just Tri It!
From: mdk@michael.udev.cdc.com (Mike D. Kail)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Narrow width running shoes?
Date: 23 Jan 93 18:00:08 GMT
Reply-To: mdk@pegasus.udev.cdc.com
Organization: Control Data Systems

In article <1993Jan22.113110.57@pasadena-dc.bofa.com>, robertson@pasadena-dc.bofa.com writes:
|> I'm new to this group, so maybe this is a FAQ.
|> 
|> I have narrow feet.  Can I buy running shoes in a narrow width?  Are there
|> stores in the Southern California area that sell them?

New Balance makes most of their shoes available in the various widths,
and the some of Nike's new line are also going to be available in
B width.  I know that the new Air Analog (replacement for the Anodyne)
is one of these.  

I, too, have narrow feet, and have had the best luck with Nike and
Brooks.  Your best bet is to go to a quality running store and 
fit several pair on because, as they say, your mileage may vary....

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Mike D. Kail                        mdk@pegasus.udev.cdc.com  |
| Control Data Systems, Inc.                                    | 
| 4201 North Lexington Avenue            (612) 482-2942 (W)     |
| Arden Hills, MN  55126                 (612) 628-9132 (H)     |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm."         |
|  - Ralph Waldo Emerson                                        |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: PAPAI@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan Papai)
Subject: Re: Distinctions Please
Organization: The Ohio State University
 <1993Jan27.230310.16945@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:09:14 GMT

jcs@syzygy.hr.att.com (John C. Schwebel) WRITES:
    ^^^^^^
I guess you like to keep things in line.

>|> Joggers overdress.  Runners wear as little as possible.
>So, Ron Dawes, who used to wear sweats in warm weather to prepare
>for hot weather races, was really a jogger? Great logic!

Lighten up.  I don't think this whole thread is as serious as
you want to make it.

>|> Joggers are meek & demure.  Runners are crashing all the time, competitive,
>|> and thrill seeking.
>|> Runners are active, sexy, type-A, athletic, coordinated, and full of
>|> excuses!  ....
>It takes a lot of coordination  to put one leg before the other one.
>
>So what about those of who neither meek and demure or sexy type-A?
>Now you need to invent a new stereotype: the jogger-runner.

There you go.  That's more in the spirit.

By the way, I havn't met that guy's girlfriend either.

Jon "The other one." Papai
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Magdi N Azer)
Subject: SHIN SLPINTS FAQ
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:35:33 GMT

 was sent a copy of the SHIN SPLINTS FAQ (I Think).  Unfortunately it was in
tar format, and when I tryied untarring the file, I was unable to.  COuld some-
one post me the Shin Splints FAQ

Thanks,

Magdi N. Azer
magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu

I'm an academic, and no one listens to me anyway, so why post a disclaimer.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: dougg@churchill.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Doug.Gilliam)
Subject: Plantar Facitis (?sp)
Organization: NCR Corp., Columbia SC
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 17:40:50 GMT

I have been following the discussion about Plantar Facitis(sp) and
have found it to be very informative.  Thanks to all of those who
have provided insight.

I have had PF for about 5 months now.  I initially tried to continue
running at a reduced level but decided to stop running completely after
a few weeks because it seemed to be making it worse.  I haven't run at
all now for about 5 months and my left foot seems to be completely healed.
My right foot feels a lot better but I can still feel it a little bit
especially in the morning (my right foot was worse than my left foot
to begin with).

I'm kinda itching to get back running but want to be conservative and
make sure I don't start back too early and hurt myself again.  I thought
very hard about starting back about a week ago but decided to 
give it another month.  If I need to, I would rather wait 3 more months
if necessary before starting back if this will SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the
probablity of injuring myself again.

When I do start back, I plan to start walking for a few days and then
gradually begin joging at a very slow pace.  I would like to have some
opinions from people whether they think it would be O.K. for me to
start back very slowly now or whether I should wait for a while.  If I
should wait, how will I know when it's O.K. to start back.  Should I
wait until I can't feel anything in either foot?  Should I wait for
another month after I can't feel anything in either foot?  Should I
wait even longer?  Or, is it not that risky to start back running now
given that I can just barely feel it in one foot?

I would appreciate anyone posting about when you should start back after
this injury.  I would especially appreciate hearing from anyone who
has fully recovered from PF.

Thank you very much.  Please post your opinions since there seems to
be a good bit of interest in the subject.

Doug Gilliam


** Doug Gilliam	(Fed. Systems)	803-739-6184
** NCR - MCPD Columbia          FAX 739-7318
** 3325 Platt Springs Rd.	VoicePlus 632
** West Columbia, SC  29170	doug.gilliam@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page)
Subject: Re: running shoe prices (was: shoes)
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Distribution: rec
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 04:52:22 GMT

In article <WOLF.93Jan23221427@doppel.first.gmd.de>, wolf@doppel.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Koehler) writes:
|> 
|> When I read the last post with a list of shoe types together with their
|> prices I was utterly surprised about the extremly low prices of nearly all 
|> manufacturers (at least all I was able to compare).
|> If I compare the prices with those here in Germany, we generally pay 50 % 
|> more for the same model. 
|> Eg., randomly chosen from the list: 
|> the Adidas Torsion Integral at US $100 , versus 220 DM (~$137) in Germany,
|> Adidas Eq. Support $110, versus 250,- ($176) 
|> Asics Gel Exult $100 versus 250,- ($176)
|> Avia 2080  $105 versus 250,- ($176)
|> The same picture for all other models
|> 
|> Where does this difference come from ? Is it only policy of the manufacturers ?
|> Or, are the numbers mentioned in the post not the prices for end users 
|> (excluding some kind of tax)? 
|> I would appreciate to see postings (or emails) from other countries about
|> the prices there too.
|> 

The article I posted had the US list price (full retail price) which is generally
the highest price you can pay in the US.  Where I had other information, I also
listed a second price in parens, which was a discount price that I had seen,
either in a mail order catalog or a local store.

It sounds like from Wolfgang's posting, and others I have seen from Australia,
that the manufacturers price the shoes lower in the US for some unknown reason.
-- 
-----------------------------		-------------------------------
Thomas W. Page, Jr.			email:   page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu
3531 Boelter Hall			day:     310 206-8696
Department of Computer Science		evening: 310 398-1830
University of California
Los Angeles, 90024-1596
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock)
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast and US distance runners so slow?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:07:08 GMT

Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu writes:

>	(1) The differences cannot be primarily genetic since Kenyans
>from many different tribes have excelled internationally.  Richard Chelimo
>is no more closely related to Paul Ereng or Yobes Ondieki than he is 
>to most American blacks.

Really? I had read that the top Kenyan runners came predominantly from two
particular tribes located in the Rift Valley region. Sorry, I don't recall
the source nor the details off the top of my head...

>	(2) Kenyans train exceptionally hard, in terms of both mileage
>and intensity.  They seem to be able to train above the level at which 
>most Americans would get hurt.

Don't they also tend to live and/or train at medium altitude -- say 6000 ft.
or so? If so, I'd guess that that may also be a big factor in their success.
Note too the location where the top Mexican runners train -- the "Forest of
Champions" outside Mexico City at substantial altitude.

>	Sorry for the length of this post.

Not at all. Your experience is quite interesting.

>	Coty Pinckney			Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu

Mark Sandrock
-- 
Univ of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign	  'The measure of mental health
Chemical Sciences Computing Services	  is the disposition to find good
505 S. Mathews Ave./Urbana, IL 61801	  everywhere.'
Email: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu		       -RWE
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: berkery@emmax5crd.ge.com (jack berkery)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Lets start the "Running Hotline"
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:03:31 GMT
Reply-To: berkery@emmax5crd.ge.com (jack berkery)
Organization: GE Research Center



> (Tim Nelson) writes:
>
>While I was in Columbia SC, a few months ago, I was looking for a race or
>
>They suggested that I call the "Running Hotline", which we found listed
>in the local phone book (white pages).
>

The Hudson-Mohawk Road Runners Club in Albany, NY has had a race info hot
line for over 10 years (518-273-3108). But here's the odd part. It's not
listed anywhere in the local phone directory. Go figure.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Berkery, Computer Scientist, GE Research, Schenectady NY
  berkery@crd.ge.com  "The Common Sense Coach"
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: treadmill?
From: wlange@eis.calstate.edu (Walter C. Lange)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:58:14 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

Newsgroups: rec.running