HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: New Employee Test
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:10:49 GMT

>>>I had an interview at a job fair yesterday, and the company asked me
>>>back to the job fair site to take a "programming aptitude test" today.
>>>I've never heard of this before.  Is it common for employers to
>>>give such a test?  Is there any correlation between the test results and 
>>>future job performance?  At this point I don't even know what the test will
>>>be like.  The interviewer did tell me that there's no way that I could
>>>prepare for it, and it's not programming-language specific.  So I assume
>>>the test is supposed to determine logical thinking skills or something.

Perhaps a throwback to the "old days" (pre-1970).  At that time computer
programming was a vocation, not a college degree profession.  Companies
would train people to do computer programming rather than hire them already
trained from school.  To evaluate people, they gave aptitude tests sort of
like the math part of the SAT test.

With degree inflation over the past couple decades, most new computer
programmers have college degrees (most white collar professions require such
now).
Also, colleges and businesses have come to an accomadation over business
computing skills.  A couple decades ago many computer science departments
thought it was an adbomination to offer a course in COBOL.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Subject: SALARY HISTORY -and- NO PHONE CALLS PLEASE!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:01:01 GMT

I just picked up a copy of today's Sunday Chicago Tribune and noticed that
there is just a slight increase in the number of ads (or maybe ad space)
over last week.

However I also have noticed another disturbing trend.
A larger number of positions are specifying:
    send resume and SALARY HISTORY...
or
    send resume and SALARY REQUIREMENTS...

But the REALLY SCARY PART is that there is a rather high correlation between
those jobs wanting salary history, and to a lesser extent salary requirements,
and those that say NO PHONE CALLS PLEASE.

This is leading me to believe that:

1.  These jobs are in companies with still an overly bureacratic office
    of Human Resources

2.  They are not sure if they even want to hire anyone yet, and are just
    speculatively gathering resumes.

3.  They are conducting YET ANOTHER salary survey.
-- 
/***********************************************************************\
| Phil Howard  ---  KA9WGN  ---  pdh@netcom.com   |   "The problem with |
| depending on government is that you cannot depend on it" - Tony Brown |
\***********************************************************************/
From: teresas@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Teresa Simske)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:55:37 GMT
Subject: Request for Reality Check
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc




Things seem a bit different in the past few months. I'm trying to
get a barometer on this. At this time last year, most of my thoughts
regarding employment were ones of despair. I'd been representing my 
company at a lot of university functions with students. All of these
students, so many of them bright and eager, were desperate for jobs.
Lots of them weren't going to get a job by the time they graduated
in December. How are they doing this year? I am an avid newspaper
reader and news watcher. How come I never see anything about how many
students are getting jobs?

In no way do I think the economy is good or that the job situation is
anything but anemic for engineers. (Drugs are not allowed at the company
where I work :) ) What I am not sensing is the doomsday sentiment from
job seekers or from non job seekers. Are things better? Are people 
just giving up, being quiet, and drowning their sorrows in chips and ESPN?
I know (without any facts, references, or numbers) that unemployment
figures are WAY too low as so many folks have just given up. I also know
that bureaucracy, lazy-frat-mba-bmw-biz-whiz-know-nothings, and general
wasted overhead (just read an article about the shortage of lawyers in the
USA) is increasing at a dispicable rate (HP contributes 2% to the GNP and
lawyers parasite 5% of the GNP). What I don't see is the outrage, the
motion or at least the strong demand/want/hope for change. 

So, am I just out of it? Maybe the election has temporarily burned out
the fires. Maybe it's really getting better out there? So, why am I still
so worried that America is on the brink of becoming Mexico or Russia or
Brazil ...


Living in a third-world country,
Teresa Simske



 
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: "ed carroll" <ed.carroll@canrem.com>
Subject: job list
Reply-To: "ed carroll" <ed.carroll@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: misc
Date: 20 Nov 92 12:15:24 EST

        A T T E N T I O N    M I S    P R O F E S S I O N A L S
        -----------------    -----    -------------------------
        The following is a partial listing of positions available
        at my client companies.  If you are qualified for and
        interested in any of these positions, please let me
         know, phone me at 413-592-4069.  If you wish to leave me
        a private message, call  CAREER SYSTEMS ONLINE
        at 413-592-9208 via modem.
CONNECTICUT
COBOL Programmer/Analysts:  Must 3+ years in life insurance
 industry and solid COBOL/TSO skills.  DB2 a plus.
DB2/Telon or CICS Programmer/Analysts:  Must have 3+ years,
 professional image and communications skills.
IMS/CICS Programmer/Analysts:  3+ years CICS and IMS,
 COBOL, TDS a plus.
MASSACHUSETTS
Teradata DBA:  Must have IBM mainframe relational db
 administration background and  at least one year on the Teradata
PC Programmer:  Must have 2-4 years C programming on MS-DOSbusiness
                applications (not mfg or engineering)
MVS/COBOL Programmer:  Must have 2-4 years COBOL, IDMS
VERMONT
IDMS/COBOL Programmer Analyst:  2+ years IDMS, COBOL, ADSO,
 Financial +. IMS Programmer Analyst:  3+ years COBOL, MVS, IMS,
Excelerator Programmer Analyst:  Must have 3+ years IBM, MVS, COBOL.
OHIO
Communications SR. P/A:  Must have 8+ years writing communications
                         software using BAL, C, and know ASYNCH,
International Software Mgr.:  Must be able to make alterations to
existingsoftwareproductsfortheinternationalmarket MustknowJapanese
INDIANA
ADSO Programmer Analyst:  Must 3+ years IDMS/COBOL on MVS.
TEXAS
Teradata DBA:  Must have 3+ years relational db administration and
at least one year on the Teradata DBC.
Please note that these are not entry-level positions.
All require 2 or more years full-time work experience
Career Systems: Your source for MIS Jobs Nationwide!
 413 592 9208 via modem   413 592 9255 fax

---
  OLX 2.2  Career Systems Online   413-592-4069   HST
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: New Employee Test
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:00:36 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Nov20.204024.20349@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu
(K.X. Saunders) writes:
|> In article <Bxzv8L.KHo@queernet.org> rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
|> writes:
|>< Myself, I expect programmers to be able to solve real problems in a
|>< reasonable amount of time, and to test it sufficiently to avoid the 
|>< ridiculous scenario you describe.  So I would have them bring code, 
|>< explain it to me, and expain how they tested it.  This isn't "Beat the 
|>< Clock," it's a marriage.
|> 
|> 	If they can show and explain their own code, why not have them try an
|> arbitrary piece?

Because I don't expect anyone to maintain or modify anyone else's code without
reasonable preparation, so why would I expect them to explain it under the same
circumstances?  If I wanted to know if someone was a good writer of prose, I
wouldn't ask them to critique someone else's writing; I'd ask to see their own. 
Why should it be any different with programmers?  The same can be said for the
write-code-on-the-spot style of testing: I wouldn't expect my developers to type
a line of code for significant portions of the time they're on a project, so why
should I expect them to do so, on the spot, for me?  What they were thinking
about, and how they pondered and solved a problem, is far more meaningful than
what kind of good little code-robots they can be on command.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz)
Subject: Re: C Guru - Six Figure Compensation
Reply-To: pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 20:15:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.185425.21895@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>, awells@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Andrew V. Wells) writes:
> In article <1992Nov19.212813.1493@netcom.com>, glenn@netcom.com (Glenn Gribble) writes:
> [ ... ]
> 
> >    Ability and willingness to work 60+ hours per week when required (not 
> >    constantly).
> 
>           Translation: Willingness to be a slave.
> 
> [ ...etc... ]

While your post is slightly amusing, I'll be honest and admit that the
original post looked like one of the more appealing ones.

You're posting from a .edu account, so perhaps you don't know that
working 60+ hours a week is sometimes required to get the job done. If
you're a salaried programmer and you don't get your product out the
door on time because you leave at 5pm every day, your head will be one
of the first to roll.

When the time comes to put in 60+ hours is when the excitement
happens! If you don't like it / can't cut it / think it's slavery,
then it's time to examine career alternatives.
--

   -paul	pmartz@dsd.es.com
		Evans & Sutherland
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: bruceh@well.sf.ca.us (Bruce Hartford)
Subject: Tech Writer Job Listings (Staff/Contract) SF Bay Area [Writers Union]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:41:26 GMT


The technical writers job bank of the National Writers Union 
lists many contract and staff writing jobs that go begging 
because we have no one to fill them. We are currently listing 8 
contract and 14 staff jobs

To hear a free description of these jobs, call (415) 979-5522.

The job bank is a non-profit cooperative effort organized by working 
technical writers who are members of the National Writers Union. 
Employers list their job openings on the hotline for free. When 
union members are interested in a job, our coordinator gives them 
the employer's name and phone number. Then the member negotiates 
directly with the employer. The union does not act as a middle 
man or broker. The union plays no role in the contract or terms 
agreed to between the writer and the employer. When members get a 
job through a hotline lead, they pay a finders fee of 12% of the 
first four months income. (Compare that to brokers who usually 
take a third of what the employer pays for the life of the 
contract.) 

You must be an NWU member to obtain the contact information about 
a job listed on the hotline. We are the trade union that covers 
all working writers (journalists, book authors, poets, technical 
and practical writers, etc.) except for those represented by the 
Newspaper, Screenwriters, or Dramatists Guilds. In addition to 
the job bank, the union provides many other services including 
union health plan, career networking, publishers and agents 
databases, and grievance handling (we've recovered almost 
$700,000 owed to writers). We are a national union with locals in 
12 cities across the country. We have been in existence for 10 
years and we are an affiliate of the UAW/AFL/CIO. Union dues are 
on a sliding scale based on your writing income, from a low of 
$35 for 6 months to a high of $150 per year. 

For membership information, or to speak with Kenya Briggs, the 
hotline coordinator, call (415) 474-5007. 

National Writers Union, Local-3
236 West Portal Ave #232
San Francisco, CA 94127
Phone:(415) 474-5007
Fax:  (415) 474-9302
E-mail: nwu3@well.sf.ca.us


-- 
______________________________________________________________________________
Bruce Hartford                             Westwind Writers Inc.
Phone: (415) 731-7826                        Fax: (415) 681-5085
Internet: bruceh@well.sf.ca.us       Location: San Francisco, CA
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: balamut@morris.hac.com (Morris Balamut)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Question: How do you check up on a company
Date: 23 Nov 1992 18:48:26 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Hi,

I am posting this for a friend. He is considering a job with a company
that is 80% owned by another company. The other 20% is owned by an investor.

How does one go about checking up on a company that is private. Also he would
like to check up on the 'parent' company which he beleives is public.

How does an individual do a Dun & BradStreet check on a company. What
other means/sources are there for investigating a company.

Thank you.

Morris Balamut

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Subject: Re: New group?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:37:48 GMT

hasker@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Hasker) writes:

>I would think the right thing to do would be to create a
>misc.jobs.offered.computer group.  Otherwise, what happens to the
>.noncomputer group when people start offering jobs on the net in lots
>of other areas?
>
>While .computer people would have to read the base group for some time,
>hopefully the computer-related jobs would migrate to the right place
>eventually.

I agree.  This makes more sense than m.j.o.noncomputer.  Let the one thing
that overwhelms the general case be isolated.  I would be totally against
a m.j.o.noncomputer group.  However I could support m.j.o.comp(uter).
-- 
/***********************************************************************\
| Phil Howard  ---  KA9WGN  ---  pdh@netcom.com   |   "The problem with |
| depending on government is that you cannot depend on it" - Tony Brown |
\***********************************************************************/
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ghost@openage.openage.com (Glenn Host)
Subject: Strange request: Unix 500 C
Organization: Open Age, Inc.
Distribution: us
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:26:40 GMT

My contract broker got a request yesterday for someone with
several years experience in "Unix 500 C".  My guess is that it
was a typo and they meant to say "Unisys 5000 C" but I may
be wrong.

Has anyone heard of 'Unix 500 C' and if so can you tell me what it is?
Mail would be appreciated since the news spool size is very small.

-- 

                      Glenn E. Host - Reston, VA
Very grateful guest of Openage - the best SCO service shop in the area
************* my views represent no one - not even myself. ****************
From: olga@csiatl.Gwinnett.COM (olga from the volga)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: How dressed is "over dressed?"
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 07:13:15 EST

figmo@netcom.com (Lynn Gold) writes:

> In article <1edpqvINNqrg@armory.centerline.com> russo@centerline.com writes:
> >
> >This is a question which may have gotten some coverage here before...
> >
> >	Here and the places I've interviewed at to date are casual work 
> >environments, and I'm assuming that the other firms will be similar.  I gues
> >the questions comes down to these: Is a suit "inappropriate" when interviewi
> >for a non-senior development position?  What is appropriate to convey the 
> >"ideal" first impression?
> 
> I've been coached on this by several recruiters.
> 
> A three-piece suit is excessive.  Not wearing a suit is underdoing it.
> I was told to stick to either a navy blue suit, a navy jacket and
> either gray or khaki on the bottom, or a gray or khaki jacket and navy
> on the bottom.  I usually stick to the suit for simplicity's sake; if
> it's cold, I don a grey tweed blazer and wear navy wool on the bottom.
> 
	[stuff deleted] 

	The place I work at is absolutely casual.  I go to work in jeans and
sneakers type outfits everyday.  So does every single engineer in my 
department.  For the interview though, I had NO idea whatsoever what kind 
of dress was appropriate for the company, so I figured I would err on the 
side of conservatism, that I could never go wrong.  I wore my Joseph 
Banks "interview suit".  It turned out of course that I was *very* 
overdressed, to the point of it being funny, but nobody thought it was 
out of line, because they realized it was an interview and that I had 
never met anybody at the company before.  I haven't worn the outfit since. 
(Whew!) I had this stuff because I had to wear it on my previous job.  :-(

olga@csiatl.gwinnett
YOW!
From: rem@public.BTR.COM (Robert E. Maas  rem@btr.com)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Advice from a hiring manager on resumes
Keywords: Advice
Date: 23 Nov 92 10:24:04 GMT
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. For info contact: info@BTR.COM

kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) says <<it's always
amused me that standard resume protocol requires putting one's name,
address and phone number at the *top* of the resume rather than the
bottom.>>

I think top is best. Unlike an audio tape, a printed resume allows
random access and variable read rate etc. The person reading the resume
will not read the contact info in detail, but will just do an instant
visual check that it seems to be there, then skip over it and start the
meat of the resume. Then if the resume looks good, hand the resume to
the receptionist to establish the telephone call. If the contact info
isn't at the top, the person reading it will have to search all over
for it just to verify it exists somewhere, then mark that portion so
the receptionist knows where to find it later, then go back to reading
the meat of the resume. Or maybe just toss it in the trash if the
contact info isn't where it is expected. (But I'm not a hiring manager,
so this is just my brainstorming, not personal experience from a hiring
manager. I'd be curious of real hiring managers agree with my analysis
of their response to normal and other-placed contact info.)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: figmo@netcom.com (Lynn Gold)
Subject: Re: How dressed is "over dressed?"
Organization: The Burn the Candle at Both Ends Club
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:50:03 GMT

In article <1edpqvINNqrg@armory.centerline.com> russo@centerline.com writes:
>
>This is a question which may have gotten some coverage here before...
>
>	Here and the places I've interviewed at to date are casual work 
>environments, and I'm assuming that the other firms will be similar.  I guess 
>the questions comes down to these: Is a suit "inappropriate" when interviewing
>for a non-senior development position?  What is appropriate to convey the 
>"ideal" first impression?

I've been coached on this by several recruiters.

A three-piece suit is excessive.  Not wearing a suit is underdoing it.
I was told to stick to either a navy blue suit, a navy jacket and
either gray or khaki on the bottom, or a gray or khaki jacket and navy
on the bottom.  I usually stick to the suit for simplicity's sake; if
it's cold, I don a grey tweed blazer and wear navy wool on the bottom.

As for the shirt, I was told to invest in a couple of blue Oxford cloth
button-down-collar shirts -- the kind you used to see in L.L.Bean and
still see in Land's End catalogs.  You want to achieve a look that can
be considered both dressy and casual at the same time.  Obviously, if
the place is EXTREMELY casual, you can remove the jacket and tie and
you'll look like everyone else.  If the place is very formal, you just
keep everything on.

Another thing to do if you're afraid you're severely overdressed is to
make a remark about it, especially when you're asked about what your
ideal work environment is like.  A remark such as "one in which I
don't have to come to work dressed like THIS every day" usually scores
points because the interviewer thinks "Oh -- this candidate's just in
costume; phwew!"

Hope I've been of help.

--Lynn
From: mike@pacsoft.com (Mike Stefanik)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Career opportunity with 90 yr old company
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:24:59 GMT
Organization: Pacific Software Group, Riverside, CA

In an article, kjb@calmasd.prime.com (Ken Brucker) writes:
|In an article, ear@sei.cmu.edu (Eugene Rindels) writes:
|> 
|> If you would like to generate a second income with a TOTAL GROUND FLOOR
|> opportunity I will show you step by step by step how to do it.
|
|In the title you say this is a 90 year old company.  How is that "Ground
|Floor"?

No, no. He meant that you'll be *working* on the ground floor (you know,
mopping, waxing, buffing, etc.)

:-)

-- 
Mike Stefanik  mike@pacsoft.com  ...!uunet!pacsoft!mike  (909) 681-2623
Pacific Software Group, Riverside, CA
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: haggar@BNR.CA 
Subject: FAQ Adress needed
Followup-To: haggar@BNR.CA
Keywords: FAQ Adress needed
Reply-To: haggar@BNR.CA  
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:50:57 GMT

Could someone send me the FAQ address for this group.
I can not FTP I can only EMAIL.

Thanks		
Haggar@bnr.ca

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: igj@amy13.stanford.edu (Ian Glen Jacobs)
Subject: New group?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 23:55:55 GMT

I think there should be a group (I know it would have light traffic)  
called something like misc.jobs.offered.noncomputer.

There are so few non-computer jobs listed that this new group would make  
it easier for non-computer job searchers to find what they are looking  
for. It might also increase the frequency of such posts...


any responses?
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: pjm@access.digex.com (Paul Masline)
Subject: Re: CHALLENGING jobs - Was: Advice from a hiring manager on resumes
Keywords: advice challenge resume
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:24:06 GMT




I must say that I agree with what you said 100%.  Although I do
not like my current job, I do find it very challenging because I'm
always having to learn something new.  It has given me a wide variety
of experience.  However, I've found that in trying to look for a new
job, most people that I have interviewed with want x number years
experience doing the same work as found in the position they are
trying to fill.  Your example at the end of your post is a good one.
I think most managers go for the person who can do the work in their
sleep because they've done it for the past x years.  I know from the
hiring that goes on in our company and talking with other managers I
know, that the main reason for chosing Person A is they are less of a
risk.  This whole situation makes trying to get into a different field
(which is what I'm trying to do) rather difficult.  I know a lot of my
experience carries over, but I have done the specific task the hiring
manager is looking for.  

I wonder how many hiring managers out there can look back at their
career and say that they are thankful for someone in their past giving
them "that chance."  Of these managers, how many are giving that
chance on to someone else?

-- 
Paul Masline
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                       pjm@access.digex.com
                                       pjm@po.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc