From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: English education and ANGLO WHINERS
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:47:18 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 6310

From article <1992Nov20.095921.1@uwovax.uwo.ca>, by 4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (John LaRocque):
> 
> (here is Steve whining again about Anglo education)
>
> In article <1992Nov19.110310.5953@spxtech.qc.ca>, steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:
> 
>> In the 15 years from 1977 to 1991 statistics indicate that enrollment
>> in English schools in Quebec fell by 53.3 percent with a corresponding
>> loss of 31.6 percent of English schools.
>> 
>> Enrollment in French schools for the same period fell by 12.2 percent
>> with a corresponding loss of 1.7 percent of French schools.
>> 
>> About 10 percent of English school age children are denied access to
>> English schools in Quebec.
> 
> How about a RETURN to the bad old days where all immigrants/allophones
> were considered "English" and got their education in English (NON merci
> Gretta Chambers!).
> 

"..... all immigrants/allophones were considered "English" ....." !?!?

NONSENSE!

Do you have any supporting references to provide for evidence?

> English education is declining for the SAME reasons that French language
> is declining EVERYWHERE in Canada OUTSIDE of Quebec.... a diminution of
> the population.

WRONG!

Quebec is the only province that has restrictive legislation specifically
designed to reduce enrollment in minority language schools.

I note your (indirect) acknowledgement that French language education is
NOT declining in Quebec. At least you admit that much.

> Look at your own statistics buddy... enrollment fell by
> 53%. In some districts that would be a VERY good reason to shut down 
> schools or convert them to French schools.

Precisely.

> That isn't racism or lack of minority rights...

Read Bill 101, chapter vii.

> ... just economic facts.

It isn't just economic facts - it is the result of a deliberate effort to
extirpate the English schools system in Quebec.

If you want an English community to remain in Quebec - this must stop.

> There aren't enough anglos to
> fill the schools, and THEIR population is declining faster than that of
> the French majority.
> 

I wonder why?   :-(

> What is it about minority language education anyways? Even in today's so-
> called bilingual environment, all it seems ANYONE is considered in is
> the plight of Quebec's poor English people.

Many people, myself included, are interested in preserving the French
language and culture in Quebec, and in Canada.

You certainly aren't talking about "ANYONE" - Exageration like that does
not help your already questionable credibility.

Minority language education is a valid concern in Quebec because of the
existence of restrictive laws that are having the destructive effect on
the community that you seem to be willing to admit, if indirectly.

> Hypocrites and vipers! 

Speak for yourself.

> Only 10% not getting their English education.... that's pretty good if
> you look at French minorities outside Quebec.

No French children outside Quebec are denied access to public French
schools, where they are available, by reason of restrictive legislation!

Where they do not have access it is because the schools are not available.
The "economic" argument you mentioned is far more appropriate there.

> And besides, this 10% can ALWAYS get that education later on in the
> French school system or by watching English TV or reading English 
> language books and magazines.
> 

WRONG!

My son is in grade 1 (and doing very well) - I am already having trouble
understanding his homework assignments. This is a handicap that would not
exist if he were attending school in his own language.

English (such as it is) is not taught in French schools in Quebec before
grade 4, and then only as a second language.

Of course he can't "get that education later on in the French school
system", and certainly not by watching "English" TV!

So don't be ridiculous.

On the contrary, there is no reason why he shouldn't learn French, as a
second language - naturally, in an English school. => If that is your
real concern!?

> In London, Ontario there is only one French TV channel (SRC Outouais/
> Ontario) and the only place where you can find French books is the local
> library. And French movies...very few indeed. It must feel VERY good
> complaining about the so-called plight of Quebec's English knowing FULL
> well that they live on a continent where the culture, business and language
> is English and where, unlike a good part of Quebec's French, they can pack up
> their bags ANYDAY and move out of Quebec to live elsewhere.
> 

I'm not complaining about the plight of the Quebec's English, particularly.
I am complaining about intolerant, excessive attitudes like yours that
prevent English-speaking people from being full members of the English-
speaking community in your province, even when those people are willing to
have their children learn your language!

If you judge culture by the quality of the TV programming or films that
are available you have a serious problem. Though that would explain a
great deal! :-)

> And while we're at it, here comes the real surprise: many English-speaking
> Quebeckers are CHOOSING to go to francophone universities and colleges.
> 

No surprise!

Many English-speaking Quebeckers are choosing to send their children to
French elementary schools in Quebec. Many English-Canadians are demanding
French immersion programs all over the country - especially in Quebec!

The fact that you choose to ignore that fact doesn't make you any less
ignorant.

> So stop whining and complaining.

I am not a fully legitimate member of "Quebec's English minority" since I
don't have the same legal rights. :-(

Until such time as I do - I will continue to whine and complain, as often
and as loudly as people like you give me opportunity to do so, and then some!

> Quebec's English minority is one of the
> luckiest minority communities in North America today. 

Whether that be true or not - So what?

That doesn't mean that your repressive legislation is any less immoral!

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||