From: sdb@ssr.com (Scott Ballantyne)
Subject: Re: ECT References (Brian Wenger's)
Organization: ScotSoft Research
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 04:23:11 GMT

In article <920723110058.22e43d36@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> WENGERB@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU (Brian Wenger, Asst Dir, Info Systems, CCSU) writes:
   >Scott Ballantyne wrote:
   >  including references that show that the description provided by
   >the Scientology group CCHR (via Mr. Wenger) is a tissue of lies.

   Hmmm... "tissue of lies" ...that's strange. It seemed to me that
   my description of ECT gave many more details than yours did. It
   was based on only one reference by CCHR, and also based on indi-
   viduals who witnessed it -- including one reporter who described
   in detail exactly what it looked like.

Well, it wasn't my description, I merely passed on the description
given by experts who performed the procedure, as an exact quote. I had
no need to kludge together a description from various sources that is
inaccurate and inconsistent. I assume the description left out things
like straps because they aren't used - it left out convulsions because
they can't occur with muscle relaxants, etc.

   >Well, first of all --- no one has to die to have a risk of death that
   >is greater than zero --- use your noggin. But more to the point....

   "More to the point", huh? I thought the point was that you said one 
   of the side-effects of Niacin as used on the Purif was DEATH. Getting
   caught in a deliberate lie is not fun, is it?  I might even overlook
   it if you weren't so blatantly attacking my religion.


You can check out the following reference (to spare the readers of
this group a repetition of a lengthy debate earlier, you might wish to
ask for more references by mail):

      Fulminant hepatic failure following low-dose sustained-release
      niacin therapy in hospital., The Western Journal of Medicine, 
      Oct 1991 v155 n4 p410(3).

Describes a death within 10 days of starting niacin. And before Raul
jumps in here and says 'but that's SR Niacin', I will direct both of
your attention to 

      Niacin revisited: clinical observations on an important but
      underutilized drug., American Journal of Medicine, Sept 1991 v91
      n3 p239(8).

Which describes similar symptoms (although this woman did not die,
since doctors corrected her mistake) from a non sustained release
preparation purchased at a health food store.

But people don't have to die to have a risk of death > 0. Was it
perfectly safe to fly on the shuttle until the Challenger disaster? Of
course not, there was always a risk of death - there still is a risk
of death, and there always will be a risk of death.

Am I attacking your religion? I certainly am asking it to judge itself
by the same standards it judges others.  Scientology has made quite a
lot of allegations about ECT, Prozac and other treatments used by
Psychiatry, and has demanded that standards of safety and efficacy
should be demonstrated.  What is wrong with me asking the same
questions of a similar treatment from Scientology?

Finally, I'm really pretty tired of you scientologists calling me a
liar. I think you owe me an apology.

sdb
---
sdb@ssr.com


Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology