HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: v5875bza@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael M Gorman Jr)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Switch-hitting  (WAS Re: Ruling Question)
Date: 27 Jul 92 00:20:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>....still sounds pretty impressive...maybe you should carry one
>right-handed club in your bag for occasions like this 

If you're really into this sort of thing, there's a way to hit opposite-
handed by turning the club upside down--i.e., toe down.  It's on the
Nicklaus Golf My Way video, which is in at least some video stores.

He, at least, is really good at it.


MG
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: bll@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Brad Loney)
Subject: Question: Reg or Stiff Shafts ?
Organization: Loral WDL
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:02:06 GMT

I'm going to be buying a new set of Irons and Wood's (Metal Shafts).  
I'm confused about what kind of shaft to get with my new clubs.  The Pro shops
in my area seem to be of no help.

What determines the shaft stiffness you should you select ?  

I'm 35 years old, 6 ft tall 175 lbs and semi-athletic.  Friends tell me I have
a smooth swing.  I hit a 7 iron around 150 yards.

Thanks in advance !

Brad Loney
From: tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: What's a flyer lie?
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:29:46 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

nelson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Nelson) writes:
- In article <1992Jul23.173924.15140@infonode.ingr.com> jim@dap.b29.ingr.com (Jim Weeks) writes:
- >In article <1992Jul23.152210.25522@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov>, sheldon@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Roger Sheldon - AISS) writes:
- >|> On TV, they're always talking about how a ball will fly out of the rough.
- >|> Anyone know the reason?  It seams that rough should always decrease the
- >|> flight of the ball.
- >|> 
- >|> Roger
- >   Good question.... what happens in the rough depends on the lie in the rough
- >    if there is a little bit of grass behind the ball three things happen .. 1st
- >    because of the grass being in front of the club head the ball actually is 
- >    moving forward before the clubhead reaches it..kind of a running start..
- >    2nd. at the moment of impact the water retained inside the grass is compressed
- >    between the club and the ball and it explodes adding to the extra velocity of
- >    the ball ..and finally... because of the grass and the water the grooves on
- >     the club face do not get a firm grip on the ball thus reducing its backspin
- >     resulting in something like a knuckleball ... all of this results is one
- >     thing.. a really hot shot that has no predictable direction .. I caught one
- >      this past weekend in a tourney ...had 145 to the pin and hit a 9 iron 
- >      about 15 yards past the green.
- >-- 
- >Jim Weeks                            
- >Ph. (205)730-4494                     Intergraph Corp.
- >Fax (205)730-6239                     Huntsville, AL 35894-0001
- >internet: b29!dap!jim@ingr.com        uucp: ...uunet!ingr!b29!dap!jim
- >------------------------------------------------------------------------
- >                            
- 
- The running start stuff. Hmmm, wouldn't the club head speed slow
- down due to the resistance of the grass resulting in a net gain
- of zero from the moving grass?
- 
- The expoding grass concept. Same argument. The energy comes from
- the club head. Besides, exploding grass .... come on, quick
- pulling my leg.
- 
- Mike N.

A golf ball needs back-spin to get "lift" (in a similar way as the wing
construction of an aeroplane gives the machine lift). However, the
normal backspin of about 5000 rpm also gives alot of friction against
the air. A "flyer" comes from the much less friction between the club
head and the ball, due to the grass. It will only rotate maybe 300 to
400 times per minute, enough to give it "lift" but giving much less
friction.

-- 
=============================================================================
 Tommy Petersson              tope@enea.se              Enea Data AB, Sweden
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: colinm@max.carleton.ca (Colin McFadyen)
Subject: ABC Mud mouths (was Re: TV coverage )
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:47:23 GMT

In <1992Jul21.141356.1312@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov> sheldon@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Roger Sheldon - AISS) writes:

>In article <92Jul20.195336edt.230@smoke.cs.toronto.edu> enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) writes:
>>
>>I'm glad to hear someone else thinks so too.  I just started watching golf,
>>but I thought the TV coverage was generally crap.  I'm going to watch the
>>Canadian Open in person - hope that's better than the TV.  

>I agree.  In addition to improving the format of the coverage, the
>networks should take polls on what announcers people like.  I personally
>thought Jim McKay's comments were pathetic -- he obviously doesn't know
>much about the game.  



...or about Scotland.  Several times he mentioned that Muirfield was just
25 miles from the Ayrshire coast.  The Ayrshire coast is on the west coast
of Scotland (Muirfield is on the east).  


  ABC should be banned from covering ANY golf tournament.  Brent Mussburger
is trying hard but he isn't a golf analyst by any stretch.  He is far too
much of a homer for my taste.  He seemed to be trying to turn the Open into
another Ryder Cup / America vs. The World match.

  Steve Melnyk lost most of his grey matter when his hair fell out.  He comes
out with some of the most inane remarks I have ever heard.  Talking about Phil
Mickelson Melnyk said "that Phil has his whole future ahead of him".  His mouth
is in drive but his brain is in neutral.  

  Another ABC British Open perennial is Jack Whitaker.  Jack isn't too bad
an announcer but I can't stand it when he puts on his cap and heads down
to the course to pontificate on just what the British Open means.


  Let's get McCord and crew over the Atlantic next time.  More experience,
better coverage and more fun to watch.

Colin McFadyen  (A transplanted Scot)
From: pistol@bank.ecn.purdue.edu (Peter C Tortorici)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Question on pulling the flagstick w/ ball holed.
Date: 23 Jul 92 03:19:09 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Jul22.232737.2753@rosevax.rosemount.com> grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes:
>andrews@qut.edu.au writes:
>: brad@meaddata.com (Brad Craig) writes:
>: > While playing a friendly round of golf this past Saturday, a playing
>: > partner holed a green side chip for birdie.  He proceeded to walk to
>: > the flagstick, pull the flagstick out in such a way as to bring the
>: > ball out with it.
>: > 
>: > Seeing that he got a birdie and would win 4 skins because of it, I
>: > joked with him and said that since he pulled the flagstick out and the
>: > ball came out of the hole, that he incurred a penalty.  I swore to him
>: > that I had hear/read this some where.  He did not belive me. Anyway I
>: > would not have made him take the penalty anyway, after all it was for
>: > fun.
>: > 
>: 
>: 	As I understand it, if the ball went into the hole so that it was
>: 	below the level of the hole it is deemed to be in the hole. It
>: 	then doesn't matter how it is removed from the hole as the player
>: 	has already finished out on that hole.
>: 
>
>From the _Rules_of_Golf_ (1991 edition, but this part didn't change):
>
>  17-4. Ball Resting Against Flagstick
>
>  If the ball rests against the flagstick when it is in the hole, the
>  player or another person authorized by him may move or remove the
>  flagstick and if the ball falls into the hole, the player shall be
>  deemed to have holed out at his last stroke; otherwise, the ball, if
>  moved, shall be placed on the lip of the hole, without penalty.
>
>My observations:
>
>Due to the shape of the cup, most balls that go into the hole will
>come to rest against the flagstick.  If the ball was resting against
>the flagstick, and came out of the hole, then to remain within the
>rules, the ball should have been placed at the lip of the hole.
>
>You would then have to tap in.
>
>So, be careful when removing the flagstick!  (I don't play with
>anybody that would make me place the ball and tap in, but I would hear
>about it for weeks.)
>
>--
>Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I'm EMOTIONAL now
>Rosemount Inc.                                |because I have MERCHANDISING
>                                              |CLOUT!!
>grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |

I think that this means that the ball is resting above the flagstick
above the plane of the hole. i.e. a windy day and the stick is bending
one way over the other. Say you chip from the side, and it rests
above the hole, but next to the stick, then this applies, but
I don't believe it applies when the ball is "immersed" in the hole
and you pull the stick.

Pete
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: martin@chiton.ucsd.edu (Martin Olivera)
Subject: Re: Survey of Good Golf Instruction Books
Organization: UCSD - Scripps Inst. of Oceanogr. - MPL
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:06:07 GMT

IMHO there's no golf "bible". The fundamentals are always the same and can be
found in almost every decent instructional book. Proof is that one can always
go back to Hogan '57 "classic" and learn the basic theory right there.
I've read Nicklaus, Watson, Ballesteros, Toski & ?? ... I picked up a few 
"things" here and there from all of them (swing thoughts, etc) and completely 
disregarded other things that I know do not apply to my swing. Basically I've 
always tried to "add" to my game rather than change it.

If I had to recommend books I'd go with Watson (the "classic" 'How to come up
and down..'), Trevino and Ballesteros for short game. I also liked parts of
Watson's latest book on the "long" game (lots of swing thoughts). Seve's book
gives a different approach to the fundamentals (emphasis on the right side as
the 'dominant' side) and it's interesting, although the best part of the book
is the short game instruction. Norman videos are pretty good too ... if you like
Norman (I do). It's nice to see him swing in slo-mo and tell you the "story"
about it. His short game video is also pretty good.

Just my 2 cents.

Martin
--
From: gr@st-andrews.ac.uk (Gavin Ramsay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: WOMEN'S U.S. OPEN
Date: 29 Jul 92 10:32:05 GMT
Organization: St. Andrews University, Scotland.

In article <1992Jul28.170926.10169@access.usask.ca> donald@dvinci.USask.Ca (David Donald) writes:
>jean-k@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Jean Kalich) writes:
>
>>CAN ANYONE TELL ME THE SATUS OF THE WOMEN'S U.S. OPEN PLAYOFF?
>
>Yes... The other lady (darn, now I forget her name) beat Julie Inkster (her 
>name I remember cause she's a Canadian - like me!) by two strokes in the 
>18 hole playoff yesterday.
>
>David
>
>-- 
>donald@dvinci.usask.ca
>
>"Close?  Close is a lingerie shop with no front window."
>					- Lorna Cole (Rene Russo), LW3.

Does anyone know who the other lady was??
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: gmacdougall@trentu.ca (George MacDougall - (705)748-1602)
Subject: Good Books
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Trent University Computer Services Department
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:15:00 GMT


	My two favourites are Jack's "Golf My Way" and Dave Pelz's (sp?) "Putt 
Like the Pros". Jack's book covers the full swing well. Dave's book covers 
putting very well.

	I am still looking for a good book on the short game and on course 
management. Neither of the books I mentioned cover these topics very well.

	I have watched many videos in the winter and they are great for giving 
me a fix of golf when I need it but I rarely watch them in the summer. When I 
am working on my game, the best videos to watch are of your own swing. If you 
are going to use other videos as a reference, making a note of camera angles 
can help.

							George MacDougall
							gmacdougall@trentu.ca
							
	Trent University - Computer Services Department - (705) 748-1602
        Peterborough, Ontario - K9J 6S2      

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: colinm@max.carleton.ca (Colin McFadyen)
Subject: John Daly
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:20:22 GMT

  I just got home from watching a clinic and round of golf by John Daly.
Long doesn't seem to describe his hitting.  Using a Killer Whale with
a titanium shaft he consistently hit ball 290+ into the wind.  His longest
was measured at 315 yards.  On one par 5, elevated tee, with the wind,
he hit his drive 355 yards (he flew a creek 300 off the tee!!). 

  On one par 4 that most mortals use a 3 or 1 iron, Daly used the Whale.
It is a forest-lined 385 90 deg. dog-leg right.  He hit a beautiful fade
that ended up around 50 yards from the green.  Most people laughed when
they saw the driver in his hands on that hole but Daly just smiled and
pumped up his Reeboks.

  He was terrific with the crowd.  He signed more autographs than I
could have imagined.  He gave away alot of balls to kids (as he said,
"They're free, so are the clubs.").

  All in all, the best $10 I have spent on entertainment in a long time.

Colin.
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: cook blows the open
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:57:15 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona

In article <BrpvLn.5zG@acsu.buffalo.edu> v5875bza@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael M Gorman Jr) writes:
>In a way, isn't it a mistake to say that Cook blew the open on
>the last two holes?  The reason he came in second is that he hadd
>one more stroke  o v e r  7 2   h o l e s.   A bogey in the first
>round is just as bad for your score as a bogey in the last round,
>right?

Wrong.

The game is dynamic, even if the conditions are not.  When
you're tied, the only thing that counts is the holes coming
up.  The knowledge of your current position relative to the
rest of the competitors alters the strategic decisions you
make.  When you are behind (but not too far :-)) you take
chances you would not take when you are ahead.

That's enough pop-psych.  Now some math.

In order to be behind, then come ahead, and finally fall
behind to lose, a competitor (let's call him "Cook") had to
make the same number of shots in the first N holes as the
favorite (let's call him "Faldo"), making the birdies,
pars, and bogies in whatever order necessary to reach that
point.  From then on, Cook's and Faldo's fates are decided
only by the next 72-N holes.

It is right to consider the probability of winning as a
72-hole affair only before the first hole.  After N holes,
if the score is tied, it is not right to consider the
probability owing to the previous N holes, only that
for the next 72-N holes.

Golf is a stationary process; golfing is not.

				--Blair
				  "lpr(1) is a stationery
				   process; rn(1) is not."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: tom@cs.su.oz.au (Thomas James Jones)
Subject: Re: cook blows the open
Reply-To: matty@cs.su.oz.au
Organization: Basser Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 08:03:08 GMT

In article <BrpvLn.5zG@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v5875bza@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael M Gorman Jr) writes:
|> In a way, isn't it a mistake to say that Cook blew the open on
|> the last two holes?  The reason he came in second is that he hadd
|> one more stroke  o v e r  7 2   h o l e s.   A bogey in the first
|> round is just as bad for your score as a bogey in the last round,
|> right?
|> 
|> Michael G

	Obviously, but also it was Faldo who came closest 
	to 'blowing the Open' from his 4 shot lead, more
	than Cook from his later lead, and Faldo was the
	Favourite + Leader from the first day until he
	almost lost it at the end.

	tom
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: collier@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Ken Collier)
Subject: Re: greenhorn (not) learning to swing
Followup-To: rec.sport.golf
Reply-To: collier@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Ken Collier)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:01:42 GMT

In article <92Jul28.203218edt.133@smoke.cs.toronto.edu> enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) writes:
[...]
>I came into possession of a #3 wood about a month ago.  I got myself
>Tom Watson's book "Getting Back to Basics".  I followed the nice
>pictures of how to hold the club, and started to practice hitting
>whiffle balls off a tee.  I tried almost every evening.  I still can't
>do it.  About one in twenty swings connect with a satisfying "crack", and 
>the ball soars high and far.  What a joyous feeling!  But more often I
>skim the top of the ball and send it tearing 6 feet through the grass,
>or hit it with the heel of the club or the toe and send it off at 45
>degrees, or miss the ball altogether.  Can you imagine how depressing
>it is?

I think there are two basic problems with your scenario.

a. You're hitting whiffle balls.  They aren't anything like hitting real golf
balls.  

However, this probably has very little to do with your frustration at
connecting with the ball.  The real problem is:

b. You're trying to learn with a 3 wood.  Generally woods are the most
difficult to hit consistently.  This is because they have such a long shaft
that it's more difficult to control the path of your club head.  The pro that
I have taken lessons from over the past several years recommends practicing
until you're blue in the face with a mid-length iron (5,6,7)  He says, "when
you get consistent with those clubs the transfer to long irons and woods is
much less frustrating".  

I'd recommend you buy yourself a used 5 iron and spend some $$ at the driving
range.  I read in Golf Digest several years ago that it takes something like
40,000 repititions doing something right before it becomes habit.  That's a
lot of range balls!

[...]
>How shameful.  I have a friend who golfs, and when I told him my problem
>he offered to sell me a "nice persimmon driver" for $200!  I can't imagine
>that is my problem though.  I'm sure Arnold Palmer wouldn't have any
>trouble hitting whiffle balls with my humble #3 wood, old and disheveled 
>as it is.  Any words of wisdom?

Some friend!  Don't be ashamed to screw up on the driving range.  Everybody
was a beginner at least once.  And don't buy a used $200 driver!
--
Ken Collier		Arizona State University     collier@enuxha.eas.asu.edu

"The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face."
				-Jack Handey
From: fin@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re Name Your Favourite Golf Ball!
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:39:45 +1000
Organization: University of New South Wales

Optima Tour the ONLY Golf Ball.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: maceache@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Tim Maceachern)
Subject: Re: YAGR (ball in tree)
Organization: NSTN Network Operations Centre, Nova Scotia, Canada
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:41:29 GMT

nelson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Nelson) writes:

...

> A competitor of mine once hit the same type ball after hitting a 
> provisional. Of course the second landed near the first. I asked
> which of his was the original that would be laying 1. He didn't
> know (both were new balls). I suggested that he might want to 
> go back and hit five off the tee but relented since he had an awful
> score already and I wasn't into an argument. He hit the worst of the
> two which was "fair" but of course was not correct. I wasn't keeping
> his score. I wonder what I would have done had he beat me out of a 
> prize (he didn't since neither of us won anything).

Not on this line of thought, except...  We have an internal out-of-bounds
area on an adjoining fairway to our number 10 hole.  I once hit two balls
out-of-bounds (and a third in bounds) with the two balls stopping less than
an inch from each other -- 240 yards out.  Yuck!

Then there was the day on a long par 4, second shot from a downhill, sidehill
lie.  Hitting a 4 wood with an OB fence on the right side, I managed to put
4 balls over the fence in the same woman's yard (there WAS a wind blowing out).
She commented that my group wasn't very accurate today.  Had 13, but broke 50
on the nine easily.

Just meanderings on a Friday before a long weekend, with heavy rain 
scheduled for tomorrow, first day of the club championship.  Mind you, I
can't play well on sunny, windy days, but always seem to do well on rainy
days.

*******************************************************************
*         Tim MacEachern         * Tim_MacEachern@hawk.nstn.ns.ca *
*     Software Kinetics Ltd.     *  or maceache@hawk.nstn.ns.ca   *
* Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada *                                *
*           Opinions expressed are the author's only              *
*******************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub)
Subject: Deformed flagsticks
Organization: University of Colorado at Colorado Springs
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:12:07 GMT

In article <2794@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU> mjb@mulka.ph.unimelb.edu.au (Michael Beeching) writes:
=>  quoted earlier:
=>  >From the _Rules_of_Golf_ (1991 edition, but this part didn't change):
=>  >
=>  >  17-4. Ball Resting Against Flagstick
=>  >
=>  >  If the ball rests against the flagstick when it is in the hole, the
=>  >  player or another person authorized by him may move or remove the
=>  >  flagstick and if the ball falls into the hole, the player shall be
=>  >  deemed to have holed out at his last stroke; otherwise, the ball, if
=>  >  moved, shall be placed on the lip of the hole, without penalty.
=>  
=>  	Is this an actual quote?, if so it is pretty obvious what it
=>  means. It says on the first line "....when it is IN THE HOLE" then
=>  later on says "if the ball falls INTO the hole" Hence the first
=>  part means when the flag is in the hole (pretty easy you might say)
=>  hence the later quote is meant to imply that the ball wasn't
=>  actually in the hole to start with, ie resting against a very
=>  deformed flag. So the ball is holed, hole is finished etc etc etc

Not really a very deformed flag.  I presume michael meant a deformed
flagstick.  Here in colorado, the wind blows and we have flagsticks
that do not set exactly upright. hence when you hit upwind, the ball
can become wedged between the edge of the hole and the flagstick.  I
think this is more common than a gnarly flagstick.
=>  
=>  Michael


-- 

charlie shub  cdash@cs.Colorado.EDU      -or-        (719) 593-3492     
  or even  cdash@colospgs (BITNET)  if the above address won't work
From: drg@bubba.ma30.bull.com (Daniel R Guilderson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: What's a flyer lie?
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:34:47 GMT
	<1992Jul23.173924.15140@infonode.ingr.com>
Organization: Bull World Wide Information Systems, Billerica MA USA

In article <1992Jul23.173924.15140@infonode.ingr.com> jim@dap.b29.ingr.com (Jim Weeks) writes:

	[stuff deleted]
	because of the grass and the water the grooves on the club
	face do not get a firm grip on the ball thus reducing its
	backspin resulting in something like a knuckleball

Didn't someone post a message to this group just a week ago claiming
that the backspin is the key to distance?  If that be the case, a ball
with negligible backspin due to grass and water in the grooves would
travel less distance than a normal shot.  Are you sure the effect
isn't the exact opposite?  i.e. the grass and water put more spin on?
Or maybe the other factors overwhelm backspin in a shot out of the
rough?  I'm confused.
From: arik@thepad.EBay.Sun.COM (Arik Klingensmith (Naturally Wired))
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Handicaps
Date: 23 Jul 1992 23:33:06 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: arik@thepad.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: thepad.ebay.sun.com

I am new to the  game of golf and I was wondering if someone could explain
to be how the handicap system works.  How is it calculated, used to adjust
your score and is it used differently in match and stroke play?  Also, how 
are the handicap numbers on the score card used?

---
Thank you,
Arik Klingensmith 		arik.klingensmith@ebay.sun.com