HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: khearn@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Keith Hearn)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Traditional Archery
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:04:29 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

In article <1jmqmsINN57c@harpo.cs.ubc.ca> lalonde@cs.ubc.ca (Paul Lalonde) writes:
>In <VADER.93Jan21003742@meryl.csd.uu.se> vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg) writes:
>
>>A Fastflite string on a longbow? Sounds very strange to me.
>>I would suggest that the traditional dacron strings are the
>>best for longbows; they are enough elastic not to stop the
>>bow limbs in a destructive manner. FastFlite is so stiff
>>that I suspect it could damage the bow.
>
>Dacron!  On a traditional bow?   Well yes, I'm willing to admit most 
>archers use it, but for the trully traditional archer you just can't
>beat linen or silk.  I've made a few linen strings (using 5lbs test
>cobler's thread, although something spun tighter would be better.  I had
>(until the post office lost them...) a few spools of a 7 1/2 lbs test
>linen that was thinner than the 5lb cobbler's thread) and find them
>every bit as durable as the dacron.  The biggest difficulty is in 
>fitting arrow nocks to them - they tend to be about twice as thick as
>dacron.  My solution is just to use self-nocks.  I've also located a
>supply of relatively cheap single twist silk to try out, but that won't
>be until spring :-(
>
>	Paul

I know a guy that made a silk bowstring. We figured out how much silk
  he used, it came out something like a half a mile or a mile. Silk is
  *really* thin, and it takes a lot to build up a string thick enough
  to use. 

If you're doing traditional, as in medieval or rennasance archery, you
  might also conider that silk was *very* expensive, since it was
  imported overland from china, so I expect that silk bowstrings were
  not much more common than hen's teeth.

I've heard (but not confirmed) that horse hair was also used in some
  cases for bowstrings. I'd think this was prolly for short bows, or
  else hair from very long manes and/or tails was used. I dunno, treat
  it as an unconfirmed rumor. :)

  Keith

-- 
Keith Hearn                   \    If a million dollars is a stack of 
khearn@pyramid.com             \   $1000 bills 4" tall, the national debt 
Pyramid Technology Corporation  \  would be a stack over 63 miles tall.
(408) 428-7304 or (510) 263-2701 \  And it's getting taller, FAST!
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: lewis@wixer.cactus.org (Lewis)
Subject: Re: Traditional Archery
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:32:31 GMT



	Some friends of mine have been using linen cord for strings for both
long bow and crossbow for quite some time and have had no problem with wear 
or thickness of string.  They use Barbo's #6 water spun right twist and service using button hole silk.  

		OG

-- 
*******************************************************************************
*lewis@wixer.cactus.org							      *
*oglewis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu						      *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Subject: Re: New deadly device?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:55:43 GMT

In article <C1F55v.HwK@boi.hp.com> bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm) writes:
>I think I know the ones you are talking about then.  I have seen pictures of a really
>massive crossbow that had a tripod stand.  Came across them when I was reading up on
>crossbows prior to making my own.  (Still have not done so, but have most of the
>parts scrounged up.)  I thought you were talking about a modern equivalent.  If I
>remember, these old ones had the crank built in.  Then there were the ones the size
>of a catapult....HATE to get hit by the bolt out of one of those!

It was probably built from old siege equipment plans!  
I have a book [reprint from 1907] called _Crossbows_ that deals with this
kind of stuff.  

The original crossbow was used as a Roman seige engine, and threw mostly
rocks.

Why would anyone want to fire a 1000 pound crossbow BOLT!?  Perhaps to
launch old Scud missiles if the engines don't ignite maybe..... :)

Brent "Really wants a 1000 pound crossbow on my car" Irvine

-- 
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         | For a mere $50 these personal  | Ak! Its 1992 tax|
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | opinions can also be yours!    |  season! Yuck!  |
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: rncb40@email.sps.mot.com (Douglas W.  Slowinski)
Subject: "Physics of Archery??"
Followup-To: alt.archery
Organization: MotoRONA - $P$
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:30:17 GMT

I have been searching the shelves of the Arizona State University Library
(quite extensive) and have spent a meager amount of time doping the same at
the University fo Arizona (in Tucson), trying to find a viable book
explaining the physics of archery - with limited success.
 
The problems I have include finding something about compound and crossbows,
as well as traditional equipment.  Another areas I have found little on has
to do with the physics of the "blades" and the associated "boundry-layer"
conditions as they apply to the tip when it come into contact with an
animal (or car thief). I've been shooting for years at a range outside of
Apache Junction (suburban Phoenix) and have yet to find one person who
understands even what I am asking about. Many know the "hows", but not the
"whys". They all want arrow speed and think the world of archery ballistics
ends at: F = ma. They do not understand that a lot of that ends at " + 1"
after the moment of impact.  

One reason for my concern is the large number of wounded animals due to
hunters using only two blades, or smaller blades....and the like.  I do not
know what the statistics are on deer, but on elk (which Arizona has to the
suprise of many) - this is quite critical.  A friend wounded an animal with
a neck shot a few years back and although ten guys spent two days trcking
the animal, it was not found.  I tried to explain the pros & cons of using
more than 2 blades, but it fell on "closed" (not deaf) ears.  Too many
"good 'ol boys who are set in their ways ! (Sounds like our managers)

If anyone is aware of such an article (I did find one good one on the balde
issue), please respond with the following info:  Title, Number, Author,
Publisher, Volume,...whatever .  
Thank you
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Thanks from the swedish student that needed answer!
From: pmj@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:03:20 -0600
Organization: Mankato State University

In article <1993Jan20.174534.13892@honte.uleth.ca>, an395_klein@hg.uleth.ca    
Hi!

This is the swedish student again.
I just wanted to thank everyone that wrote me a letter for my labwork.

I also want to say that the third round of six arrows that we counted, and
wrote up on a piece of paper, was quite good. I got 50p out of 54.
I think it had something to do with luck.

/PMJ the CATMAN
EMAIL: PMJ@VAX1.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU                                                               
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Re: Traditional Archery
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:05:00 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

The Century-21 (?) and several other longbow offerings offer a Fastflight string
as either standard or optional.  Thus, wouldn't this seem to imply that such
strings are indeed satisfactory?

Bill Blohm
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Subject: Re: New deadly device?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:29:24 GMT

In article <C1Gyv0.6MH@boi.hp.com> bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm) writes:
>Brent Irvine (irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>: It was probably built from old siege equipment plans!  
>: I have a book [reprint from 1907] called _Crossbows_ that deals with this
>: kind of stuff.  
>: 
>: The original crossbow was used as a Roman seige engine, and threw mostly
>
>If this book has as a cover a drawing of a crossbow with the bolt sticking out
>towards you, then this is the same book I read.  It was a pretty interesting
>book to read, with real nice drawings.

Nope, this one has an old hand-held crossbow top-view.  Crossbow has a cranqu..
on it [cant spell that term].  The cover is reddish orange with white lettering.

>: 
>: Why would anyone want to fire a 1000 pound crossbow BOLT!?  Perhaps to
>: launch old Scud missiles if the engines don't ignite maybe..... :)
>
>Wonder if you and I were to build one with some modern improvements and
>patent it we could go into business selling it as a "Stealthy Scud Launcher"?

Or maybe market it as "Low-Cost Low-Maintenance Mobile Tactical Scud Launcher 
with Stealth Capability,"  L2MTSL for the military acronym people!

Sell it for $100,000 a crack, sit back and rake in the profits! :) :) :) 

>
>As to the 1000# bolt, if you consider what kind of damage a mere arrow can do
>and escalate to a bolt, think of the damage a 1000# bolt can do to a man's
>castle when compared to a mere rock.

Wood on Stone?  Maybe the velocity.  How about its capability as an anti-
personnell weapon - hoo boy!

>
>: Brent "Really wants a 1000 pound crossbow on my car" Irvine
>: 
>Hey, I been thinking of rockets with water-proof paint warheads for those
>assholes who pull out in front of me when there really isn't enough room.
>Maybe if I had one of these on my hood it would be a better deterrant?

Only if you had a flag that said "Cut Me Off And Die" :)

-- 
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         | For a mere $50 these personal  | Ak! Its 1992 tax|
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | opinions can also be yours!    |  season! Yuck!  |
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Re: New deadly device?
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:02:04 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

]ke Eldberg (vader@meryl.csd.uu.se) wrote:
: The text I'm commenting mentioned pneumatic crossbows.
: 
: The most awesome archery stuff I ever saw was a competition in
: Switzerland where they shoot crossbows of 1000 pounds. BIG things!
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Are these one-man, readily carried crosbows?  Definitely need a 
crank-type, waist attached claw to set the string on these!

: 
: ]ke

Bill Blohm
bblohm@hpbs1686.boi.hp.com  (Boise, Idaho)
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Traditional Archery
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:29:27 GMT
Organization: University of Uppsala, Sweden
NNTP-Posting-Host: meryl.csd.uu.se
In-reply-to: lalonde@cs.ubc.ca's message of 25 Jan 1993 09:54:34 -0800

Paul, do you have any book or video references where one can
learn how to do the "flemish twist" type of strings?

]ke
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Subject: Release technique
Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu
Organization: Wayne State University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:46:44 GMT

I was ordering some cedar arrows from Three Rivers Archery yesterday and got into
a conversation about some problems I've had shooting. I use plain Mercury nocks,
not snap-ons, as most traditionalists do. Anyhow, I've had some difficulties shooting
the instinctive style with a corner-of-mouth anchor. Tab, which I used to use, 
tended to slap me in the face. Most gloves lacked the feel I was looking for, and 
the one I settled on, a soft deerskin model, resulted in irritation to my index
finger from the nocking point, as I had to grip the nock to keep the arrow from
slipping off the string.

This is probably old hat to many of you, but it wasn't to me. What I was told was to
roll the index finger away from the nocking point ever so slightly as I approached
full draw, just prior to release. Voila! No pinch. It seems to make my release a
little cleaner, too.

  --mike


Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: tang@akofin.enet.dec.com (Gabe Tang)
Subject: Re: Traditional Archery
Organization: the vms company
Date: 22 JAN 93 13:13:38 EST


re: (Paul Lalonde) ........
>re: (]ke Eldberg) ........
> 
>>A Fastflite string on a longbow? Sounds very strange to me.
>>I would suggest that the traditional dacron strings are the
>>best for longbows; they are enough elastic not to stop the
>>bow limbs in a destructive manner. FastFlite is so stiff
>>that I suspect it could damage the bow.
> 
>Dacron!  On a traditional bow?   Well yes, I'm willing to admit most 
>archers use it, but for the trully traditional archer you just can't
>beat linen or silk.  I've made a few linen strings (using 5lbs test
>cobler's thread, although something spun tighter would be better.  I had
>(until the post office lost them...) a few spools of a 7 1/2 lbs test
>linen that was thinner than the 5lb cobbler's thread) and find them
>every bit as durable as the dacron.  The biggest difficulty is in 
>fitting arrow nocks to them - they tend to be about twice as thick as
>dacron.  My solution is just to use self-nocks.  I've also located a
>supply of relatively cheap single twist silk to try out, but that won't
>be until spring :-(

Paul,
	Yes, you could use linen or silk to be more traditional. But, then,
	I hope you make them using a Flemish braid....... And no nylon or 
	monofilament servings. And how do you handle the nocking point? .....
	why, you serve that in too.....don't you?  I do.      :-)

	
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Re: New deadly device?
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:44:19 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

I think I know the ones you are talking about then.  I have seen pictures of a really
massive crossbow that had a tripod stand.  Came across them when I was reading up on
crossbows prior to making my own.  (Still have not done so, but have most of the
parts scrounged up.)  I thought you were talking about a modern equivalent.  If I
remember, these old ones had the crank built in.  Then there were the ones the size
of a catapult....HATE to get hit by the bolt out of one of those!

Bill B.

Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: sherman@panix.com (Sherman Chan)
Subject: Re: Anybody wanna sell a...
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 05:43:13 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <lynx.39sl@terapin.com> lynx@terapin.com (Debbie Caraway) writes:

>In article <1993Jan12.084108.10762@panix.com>, sherman@panix.com (Sherman Chan)
>writes:
>>I'm looking for something that some books describe as a "school bow"
>>a fiberglass recurve, weight of about 20-25 lbs, draw of at least 25 inches.
>>AMO length of at least 56" would be nice, but not too important.  While
>>obviously I'm looking for a bow in good condition, $$ is a consideration.
>>
>>-Sherm
>>
>Have ya tried going to a lacal high school after calling a PE teacher.  I don't
>know where you are, but many schools have equiptment that isn't used.  Chances
>are if ya offer to return it in better condition than you got it, they won't
>care checking it out to you.  

None of the local high schools have an archery class or team.


>I'm trying to get an archery team started with 12 & 13 year olds in the CA SF
>E. Bay.  I have about 8 7th and 8th graders mostly girls and a couple of left
>handed lads.  Any suggestions or advice?  How could I find out if there are any
>other beginning groups at that age in the area?

How about checking with the shops in the area?
BTW - I still haven't found what I was looking for, so if anyone wants to
sell such a beast, I'm all ears.

Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: locher@iastate.edu (Robert C Locher)
Subject: Re: New deadly device?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:55:32 GMT

irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:

>Why would anyone want to fire a 1000 pound crossbow BOLT!?  Perhaps to
>launch old Scud missiles if the engines don't ignite maybe..... :)

I bet anything that the 1000 pound crossbow meant 1000 pounds DRAW
FORCE, not bolt weight.

				- Rob
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: New deadly device?
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:43:38
Organization: University of Uppsala, Sweden
NNTP-Posting-Host: meryl.csd.uu.se
In-reply-to: bblohm@boi.hp.com's message of Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:02:04 GMT

Bill asked, apropos 1000-pound Swiss crossbows:

>Are these one-man, readily carried crosbows?  Definitely need a
>crank-type, waist attached claw to set the string on these!

Actually, they are tripod-mounted, or at least they have a stick
to support the weight. The ammo looked like 1/2 inch steel bolts.
As weapons, I believe they were originally used to pick off sentries
from the walls of besieged castles, from well beyond normal arrow
range. Sorry, I really don't know any more.

]ke
From: lalonde@cs.ubc.ca (Paul Lalonde)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Traditional Archery
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:04:38 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: harpo.cs.ubc.ca

In <185078@pyramid.pyramid.com> khearn@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Keith Hearn) writes:
>I know a guy that made a silk bowstring. We figured out how much silk
>  he used, it came out something like a half a mile or a mile. Silk is
>  *really* thin, and it takes a lot to build up a string thick enough
>  to use. 

The silk is to go with a high poundage bow (90lb or so), so yes, you do
need a lot, but the number of strands of 10lb test needed gives
(according to my calculation) gives a reasonable string (on par with
dacron on a light bow).

>I've heard (but not confirmed) that horse hair was also used in some
>  cases for bowstrings. I'd think this was prolly for short bows, or
>  else hair from very long manes and/or tails was used. I dunno, treat
>  it as an unconfirmed rumor. :)

No, you just have to twist the fibres.  Linen fibres are quite short,
but make dandy thread when spun...  You can do much the same with hair,
with the proviso that the result is thicker.  

Still says nothing about whether it was used for bowstrings or not 
though...

The other factor with linen (and the reason to try silk) is that modern
machine-spun linen is not as fine as can be done by hand on a wheel,
making a modern linen string somewhat thicker than the period
equivalent.  I'm (half-heartedly) looking for someone who is willing
to spin me a few hundred yards of fine linen thread to try with.

	Paul
-- 
 Paul A. Lalonde	 	Internet: lalonde@cs.ubc.ca

"On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible aux yeux"
				- Antoine de St.-Exeupery
From: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Angus Duggan)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Desperately Seeking Tom Dielen...
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:45:00 GMT
Followup-To: sender
Organization: Edinburgh University Fried Brain Carry-out

Is there anyone out there who can get a message to Tom Dielen, organiser of
the First World University Archery Games (held this coming February)? I've been
trying to phone him for days now, but he's never in, and the number which I
thought was his FAX number is not; I need to get a message to him re the
games.

a.
--
Angus Duggan, Department of Computer Science,	| 42lb 68" Portland 2000, 29.5"
University of Edinburgh, The King's Buildings,  | ACE 520, ACE UHR rod, Arten &
Mayfield Road, Edinburgh EH9 3JZ, Scotland.	| AGF twins, 18 str Fastflite.
INET: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk | JANET: ajcd@uk.ac.ed.dcs | PHONE: +44(0)31 650 5126
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
Subject: Re: Cadet Ranks
From: marc@csufres.CSUFresno.EDU (Marc Matteo)
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:20:00 PST
Organization: California State University, Fresno

I like the way it's done here at Fresno State.  MSI's and MSII's (freshman and
sophmores) wear c/Cpl rank.  MSIV's wear varing battalion staff ranks (from
c/Cpt thru c/LtCol.

MSIII on the other hand *rotate* through the company level positions to ready
themselves for advanced camp.  Therefore an MSIII holding a non-leadership
position for that perion would wear c/Sgt.  Squad leaders = c/Ssg, Plt Sgts =
c/Sfc, etc on up to the company commander (c/Cpt).

The c/MSG and c/1Lt really aren't used 'cause basically they don't need to be. 

Marc (MSIII - Army ROTC)
--
____________________________________________________________________________
Marc Matteo,                     |   AOL:        M Matteo
California State University,     |   Internet:   marc@csufres.CSUFresno.EDU
Fresno                           |   GEnie:      M.MATTEO
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
From: <juyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Cadet Ranks
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:38:45 -0500

>In article <106666@netnews.upenn.edu> krangel@pobox.upenn.edu (Eric S Krangel) writes:
>>
>>     I have a question about cadet (especially AROTC) ranks.  I, as well
>>as all other freshman cadets at the University of Pennsylvania, am a
>>c/PVT.  However, during weekend FTX's (field training excersises for
>>non-Army folk) we train with ROTC groups at other area schools.  I have
>>seen freshman ranked as high as c/CPL.  Could someone please explain to me
>>what is the SOP for promotion within cadet ranks?  Thanks.
>>
>>	- Eric Krangel
>>	  Univ. of Pennsylvania AROTC


Here in Indiana University, the cadet ranks are assigned to the MS IV
cadets according to their jobs:

	C/LTC	Cadet Battalion Commander
	C/MAJ  	Staffs (S1-S5)
	C/CPT	MS I, II, III Company Commander
	C/1LT			      XO
	C/2LT			      Platoon Leader

And for those MS I cadets, I've never heard of them being called
C/PVT.

Julia
Indiana University AROTC 1991-1992


Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
From: rlshuck@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Robert L. Shuck)
Subject: Re: merit/demerit policy
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:17:41 GMT


Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
From: rlshuck@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Robert L. Shuck)
Subject: changing schools
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:47:31 GMT

Does anyone know the procedure for transfering to another program?
(ie.,changing schools) if you are a contracted cadet?

Thanks.
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
Subject: New Sec of AF?
From: cvalj001@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Date: 26 Jan 93 11:07:14 PST
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvalj001


Does anyone know who the new Secretary of the Air Force is?

-- 
                                                           
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   Daemon E. Hobbs, C/LtCol, AFROTC
                 Senior, (Spatial Information Systems)
                          Cal Poly, Pomona
                            **Commander**
                602D Air Force ROTC Cadet Squadron (ATC)
                Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711

         "My ramblings represent no one's opinion but my own."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: krangel@pobox.upenn.edu (Eric S Krangel)
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
Subject: Cadet Ranks
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:24:20 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


     I have a question about cadet (especially AROTC) ranks.  I, as well
as all other freshman cadets at the University of Pennsylvania, am a
c/PVT.  However, during weekend FTX's (field training excersises for
non-Army folk) we train with ROTC groups at other area schools.  I have
seen freshman ranked as high as c/CPL.  Could someone please explain to me
what is the SOP for promotion within cadet ranks?  Thanks.

	- Eric Krangel
	  Univ. of Pennsylvania AROTC
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA