HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 09:50:29 -0400 
From: "Chad R. Vizino" <cv0q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Double to Triple Crank Conversion

While growing up the in flat farmlands of Indiana, my 52/42 chainwheels
and 14-30 freewheel combination on my road bike where fine for
recreation roadtouring.  Now, years later (my bike has been in storage
for awhile), living in the hills of Western Pennsylvania, I find that I
need lower gearing to handle some of the hills near my home  (I'll admit
that I am not in the condition I once was).

There has been recent discussion of triple chainrings on this board so
responses to my inquiry may be interesting to other readers:  I was
wondering if someone could comment on the
implications/difficulty/expense of converting a double crank to a
triple.  Will it be necessary to change the front derailleur, cranks and
BB spindle  (if possible I would prefer not to have to replace all those
items)?

 Thanks for your feedback.

   Chad Vizino
   Carnegie Mellon University
From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Are 8sp Really Needed?
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:25:56 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <jrh.2ad37176-e@mustang.dell.com> jrh@mustang.dell.com (Randy Howard) writes:
>maarrrk@seidel.ucsb.edu (Mark Erickson) writes:
>
>>jpalmier@rvgs.vak12ed.edu (Jim Palmieri) writes:
>>><TOM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> writes:
>>>> It seems to me, the seven speed cassette or freewheel is good enough.  
>>>>
>>>Yes there is something you are missing, a gear!  If you live in
>>>
>>If your top and bottom gears are the same, how big an advantage
>>is it to have 16 (or 24 for MTB's) steps between them over
>>14 (or 21)? 
>>
>>Is the finer discretization of the gearing really that important?
>
>I'd say you could reduce your argument to the simplest case, if you have
>a 2-speed cassette or freewheel, with a wide enough gap, isn't that good
>enough???  It's a case of how many do you really need, and like most things
>in cycling these days the answer is: "As much as I can afford" :)

Not quite.  The same arguments can be made for the number of chainrings
as for the number of cogs.  Assuming that you are going to have the same
gear range regardless of the number of gears (when I went from six- to
seven-speed I gained a 16t cog, not a 23) it's a question of: increased
weight and reduced strength versus having a larger number of gears to 
choose from.

(The weight gain is obvious.  The reduced strength in back comes from greater
axle overhang and more extreme dish; in front it comes from greater spindle
overhang.)

So, why would the people who first jumped at having eight speeds be the
last to be caught with a triple in front?  Remember, we're not talking
about some sh*t-shifting triple like those found on mtbs, but something
like a 38x46x52 which with a properly designed derailleur would probably
shift much better than contemporary doubles.
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
"Quayle in '94"		   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
From: dgi@tnds.bellcore.com (Dave Iveson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Anyone heard of PAaOT
Keywords: japanese bike paaot
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:36:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: tnds.dgi.92Oct162832
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bell Communications Research


I previously posted this request to rec.bicycles.soc and rec.bicycles.misc but
didn't receive any feedback so I'm posting it to 'tech' in hopes that someone
can shed some light on the subject.

I rescued a 10-speed PAaOT bicycle from the recycling center near where I live
last weekend.  I was wondering whether anyone can tell me anything about this
brand of bike, since I've never heard of it before.  Is says "Made in Japan" on
it and the friction shifters and derailleurs are Shimano brand.  Other than
having a flat rear tire and being a little greasy and dirty, the bike shifted
and rode well when I pumped the tire up and took it for a test ride.  What I'm
really looking for is some info about the quality, or lack of it, of this bike.

This is the 3rd 10-speed bike that I've rescued from the recycle place.  The
first 2 were a set of older his and hers Schwinns which I rebuilt from the
bearings up to the paint job for my wife and I.  It never ceases to amaze me
that some people throw away a 10-speed bicycle which, with a little maintenance
work and some TLC, is a perfectly good piece of equipment.  Disposable
10-speeds, what'll they think of next?

Thanks in advance for any info,

Dave Iveson  at Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Vitus with Aluminum Steerer Tube
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:39:09 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.134254.4598@athena.mit.edu>
xmeyer@athena.mit.edu (F Thomas Korsmeyer) writes:
 
>
>I have been riding an early Vitus with an al steerer for 5 years or so without a problem.
>Famous last words, perhaps, but I have never actually heard a credible story of a
>failure.  Has anyone else?
>
 
I witnessed a failure of a steel fork.  My brother in law descended a steep
hill down to a steel grating decked bridge on his tandem.  (No, the bridge
wasn't on the tandem.)  The edge of the bridge was a couple on inches above
the road surface...enough to bend the fork back and shear it off where the
crown joins the steerer tube.  It was a bloody mess.
 
At the time--about 15 years ago--oversized headsets and/or tubing hardly
existed (actually, the Taylors' tandem did feature such, but we were still
waiting for our Taylor at that point.)  My wife and I were concerned about
having a similar problem on our Gitane tandem; it seems to use a regular
weight fork.
 
Our "solution:"  We milled a 6" long aluminum plug to fit into the bottem
6" of the steerer tube.  The brake bolt holds it in place; we added some
epoxy for good measure.  Normally, where the steerer tube joins the crown
is where the steerer tube is subject to the most stress.  Our "fix" relieves
some of this stress.  And, if the steerer tube still insists on breaking
anywhere near the crown, our plug will likely keep things together until
until we can stop the bike safely.
 
This solution cost almost nothing, weighs a few ounces, and gives us great
peace of mind.  If my Vitus had an aluminum fork, I would consider the same
solution (I ride Vitus mainly because I got some frames at a good price
and they will not rust no matter how much I sweat on them, not to save weight;
others may have other concerns.)
From: 2641nabedian@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: My sensor question
Date: 8 Oct 1992 17:37:58 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 2641nabedian@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsa.csd.mu.edu

	Thanks to all who have helped with my sensor question.  I have not yet 
decided which is the best solution, but I certainly know more know than 
before.  
	I would just like to clear up what I feel has been slightly 
misunderstood, however.  This project is to be completed by approx. Dec. 10,
1992.  The class meets twice a week, once as lecture, once as "lab."  The 
lab usually includes a "brief" demonstration which ends up taking half the 
class period, leaving us with half an hour to play with our designs.  We are 
able to work outside of class in an open lab for perhaps one hour a week.
Also, my project is unique from everyone else's.
	I mention this so that we are all thinking along the same lines as far
as instructor's expectations and knowledge of my project.  I do expect to 
have a working unit by the deadline.  I feel the major emphasis of the class
is on interfacing devices to a microprocessor, not finding the optimal 
solution for every aspect of the project.  

	Don't let this stop you from offering any other suggestions, though. 
I TRULY appreciate all the guidance I have received from the net.  I have 
learned a lot more from your comments than from the class itself!
	Thanks again.

Jay Nabedian
2641nabedian@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Triple chainrings on road bikes
Keywords: they're great!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:31:47 GMT

In article <21482@drutx.ATT.COM> r.g.olsen@att.com writes:
>I have a Trek 1420 road bike with a triple crank
>and I really like it.  (I too got into road biking
>after I had started mountain biking.)
>It has Shimano 105SC components with Deore DX crank and derailleurs.
>I have it set up with 48-45-26 chainrings and
>a 12-28 7-speed Hyperglide cassette (half-step plus granny gearing),
>with a low of 25 gear-inches and a high of 108.

Living in the San Francisco bay area means that if you go riding, you go
climbing. This last weekend I rode in the Monterey Around the Bay Century.
I noticed that manyy of the people that were riding in that century were
on Treks and the older (yucko blue) 1420's were in evidence everywhere.

I have been recommending that bike ever since I first saw them, though
I must admit that the first advertisements for them said that they were
going to have a 24 tooth granny -- the only real option in my opinion --
if you're going to need a granny get the granniest granny you can. :-)

The 1420 appears to offer just about the perfect balance for fast centuries,
credit card touring and general riding that I can think of. It must be
a successful idea because we are beginning to see more and more 1420's
around. And the other manufacturers are building similar bikes (Diamondback
Expert, Specialized Triple) but not IMHO of equal quality.
From: ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Mounting Avocet on Manitou2
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:56:36 GMT
Organization: Control Data Systems
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXMessage-ID: <A7045E3AFF010456@ethelred.svl.cdc.com>
X-XXDate: Fri, 16 Oct 92 11:55:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.161126.11071@ra.oc.com> Lance Jablonski,
jlance@dbaix.oc.com writes:
>   I realize this discussion was held here a week or two ago,
>but, I finally got my new Manitou2, and it looks like I'll
>have to glue the damn sensor onto the fork. Would someone please
>post or email me the appropriate method for doing this. Please
>include type of glue required, how long it will adhere, or if
>you suggest going with the rear wheel sensor(BOO!) tell me why.

Don't know if this is any help but I had a similar problem with a very,
but VERY, old Raleigh I used to ride. This bike exploded 12 miles from
home one day - but that's another story.

I took out the sensor from the bracket and inserted it the other way
round ( the sensor fits in the bracket either way). Then I snipped off
the long bit on the bracket and installed the whole shebang upside down
underneith the fork. Worked like a champ.. I used longer tiewraps.
--
Lawrence D. Hare       ldh@svl.cdc.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Triple chainrings on road bikes
Keywords: they're great!
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:46:12 GMT

In <1992Oct15.204157.23673@novell.com> chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler) writes:

>My road bike is equipped with a 26/38/48 cranks and 12-30 freewheel
>(and freehub).  
>The high isn't quite high enough, so that'll probably get
>switched to a 50t.  That would just equal the front derailleur's
>24t capacity.  FWIW, the the derailleurs are XC-Pro (f) and XC-Comp
>(r). The crank is an XC-Comp w/Sakae rings.  The whole thing shifts
>beautifully and lets me ride the bike *anywhere.*  

The specifications claim a 24t capacity for the front
derailleur, but if the XC-Pro is as similar to the XCD as I
remember it being, you can actually do a bit more.  I'm
running an XC-Ltd triple 28/38/54 with a 12-28 freehub, but
there's enough room left on the derailleur I've thought of
swapping the 28 chainring for a 24 or 26, then putting a 
12-21 or 12-24 cassette on the freehub.

My cranks came with a more standard 50T big ring, but I like
to keep up with sprinting friends while descending
mountains, so when the 50T got worn I got the 54T.

The system still shifts beautifully, and you're right about
going anywhere, too.
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
From: budn@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Bud Noren)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:01:30 GMT
Subject: Re: Are 8sp Really Needed?
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) writes:

>So, why would the people who first jumped at having eight speeds be the
>last to be caught with a triple in front?  Remember, we're not talking
>about some sh*t-shifting triple like those found on mtbs, but something
>like a 38x46x52 which with a properly designed derailleur would probably
>shift much better than contemporary doubles.

I've always felt the real advantage that an 8-cog setup has over 7 is
the ease of shifting, not the number of gears.  The twelve usable gears
that you get with a 7 speed system are plenty for me, and I live in a
hilly area.  In the area where there is overlap between the large and 
small ring gears, the range used for flatter terrain, you end up double
shifting a lot to move among the most closely spaced gears.  The amount
of double shifting is reduced with more cogs.  With 8 cogs I think you
can effectively stay in one chain ring for each type of riding - the 53
for flats and descents, the 39 for climbing - and still have a good
gear selection.

So why the concern over double shifting?  It's not the end of the world
if you have to double shift.  I think the set up of high end bikes is
often dictated by racing concerns, and double shifting is more of a hassle
in a race situation where you don't want to waste any time at all.  It
seems like the innovations like 8 cogs and STI-type shifting are first
prototyped on a pro team, like Motorola, and then are introduced in the
high end groups like Dura-Ace, and then filter down through the other 
groups.

-Bud
From: truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell)
Subject: Re: Are long seatposts a problem? (was Re: Broken rear dropout)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:28:44 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech

In article <73134@apple.Apple.COM>, ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) wrote:

> This makes me wonder if having a long, inflexible seatpost running halfway
> down the seattube is a bad thing.
> ... Should I cut the thing off already and stop lugging the extra ounces around?

Cut off the extra length and if you want to minimize any effect of
leveraging the end of the seat post into a thin seat tube wall, cut it off
at an angle. Crude ASCII graphic follows:

  _______________
  \        ______)
   \______/
        \ \
         \ \
          \ \
           \ \
            \ \
             \ \
              \_\  <-- cut at an angle here so the part that gets
                       forced against the ID of the seat tube
                       gradually tapers away to a point. This
                       ensures that there will be some give here.
                       ASCII graphic can't show that it should be
                       at least a 45 degree angle. On my mountain
                       bike I cut it at a 60 degree angle.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: pohlgm@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (G.M. Pohl)
Subject: Triple Chainrings
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 02:38:45 GMT

Having both road (Bridgestone Rb-1) and Mtn (Specialised Rockhopper Comp) 
bikes, I really notice (NOT) having the granny rings. Having a granny ring
also allows you to tighten up the rear cluster. Alternatively just get a 
smallish low ring for the front of your double. I have a 52/39 with 12-18 
7 spd on the Bridgestone and that's great. If you have some spare $$$ have
a look at the Mavic 571 crank. Looks DEVINE and operates as either a double
or a triple (or even a track single). It has standard road bolt circles for
the two bigger rings and a special wee bracket to bolt on the granny ring. 
It has some clever mounting system to get around the extra offset required 
from the b.b. axle.

Graham Pohl <POHLGM@elec.canterbury.ac.nz>

Life is like a sewer...
                ...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.
From: jwgst2+@pitt.edu (James W Gourgoutis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: chainring phasing
Keywords: chainring phasing
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:13:16 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <NowPsB2w163w@gcarter>  writes:
>On a recently assembled triple chainring I experienced horrible
>shifting to the middle chainring from both directions.  I took off
>the middle chainring and carefully compared it to another I had looking
>for bends, etc.  The only difference was these otherwise identical
>rings were "phased" differently with respect to the bolt holes when
>the stamped lettering was oriented.  In other words the teeth of one
>started maybe 60 degrees later.  When I changed the rings and thus 
>the phasing the triple worked terrific.  I did not check this but
>possibly I could have changed the phase just by rotating the same
>ring.  These are ordinary SR round rings, not the pre-worn Shimino
>ones.  Is it necessary to properly phase ordinary front chainrings?
>Has everyone else been doing this and I just discovered it?  Maybe
>I was just lucky in the past?

	I don't understand this.  If the rings are identical except for the
lettering, then they should work the same.   If all of the teeth are the same,
then how is the thing phased?  It's like saying "where does a circle start?"
  	Maybe what happened is that you switched the spacers for the middle 
ring.  I know that on some Shimano cranks, there are spacers that fit between
the ring and the crank.  It is easy to get this mixed up and put the spacers on
the wrong side.  Maybe  you unknowingly switched the spacers.
	Or, maybe you had a ring on backwards.  Or is that inside out?  
Usually, all of the lettering on a set of chainwheels should face out.
Make sure that the rings are equidistant from each other.
	
	Hope this helps.  


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
James Gourgoutis       				   
Mechanical Engineering                                O   
University of Pittsburgh                           _ /__,     
e-mail me at:  JWGST2@unixd.cis.pitt.edu          (_) /(_) 
	       or JWGST2@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Thanks!           			   "Why am I so late?  It took me 
					    25 minutes to decide which bike
					    to ride!" 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-       
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: johnr@col.hp.com (John T. Rasper)
Subject: Re: TIME pedal maintenance
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:54:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

OK, we've answered the question about the rear cover plate. Now,
what does that red lever wrapped around the 'axle' do?


--
John Rasper                         Hewlett-Packard COL
johnr@col.hp.com                    P.O. Box 2197
(719) 590-5895                      Colorado Springs, CO 80901-2197
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: jrh@mustang.dell.com (Randy Howard)
Subject: Re: Are 8sp Really Needed?
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:23:34 GMT

maarrrk@seidel.ucsb.edu (Mark Erickson) writes:

>jpalmier@rvgs.vak12ed.edu (Jim Palmieri) writes:
>><TOM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> writes:
>>> It seems to me, the seven speed cassette or freewheel is good enough.  
>>>
>>Yes there is something you are missing, a gear!  If you live in
>>
>If your top and bottom gears are the same, how big an advantage
>is it to have 16 (or 24 for MTB's) steps between them over
>14 (or 21)? 
>
>Is the finer discretization of the gearing really that important?

I'd say you could reduce your argument to the simplest case, if you have
a 2-speed cassette or freewheel, with a wide enough gap, isn't that good
enough???  It's a case of how many do you really need, and like most things
in cycling these days the answer is: "As much as I can afford" :)

-- 
Randy Howard            _o	    @'s: jrh@dell.com
Dell Computer Corp.     \<,	    !'s: ...!uunet!dellunix!jrh
______________________()/ ()______________________________________________
"Univel"... Just Say "NoNIX"
From: dkw@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David Wittenberg)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Since we are talking about pro equip
Date: 8 Oct 92 22:00:04 GMT
Organization: Brandeis University Computer Science

In article <casseres-061092135509@missmolly.apple.com>, casseres@apple.com (David Casseres) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct5.202330.5336@netcom.com>, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H.
|> Kunich) wrote:
|> 
|> [Harry Phinney wrote]
|> > >I don't remember anybody mentioning 20 mph.  It is not reasonable to
|> > >expect that everyone posting here has the same riding ability or
|> > >participates in the same rides or races.
|> > 
|> > 20 mph is about the average speed of most people.
|> 
|> Ah, nothing like science.  What is this "average speed," please?  Averaged
|> over all rides?  Races?  Training rides?  Commuting?  Grocery runs?
|> 
|> And who are "most people"?  All cyclists?  Kids too?  Just racers? 
|> Commuters?  Just people with aero clipons?

My club offers 4 classes of rides:
A: animal
B: brisk
C: casual
D: deliberate

I think D is around 10 mph.  C seems to be about 12 mph. B rides run
14 - 15 mph, and A rides are around 18 mph.  I'm well aware that I
don't ride with the fastest club in the area, but we're a lot faster
than the people who ride twice a year.  I would put the average club
rider (not racer) at 14-15 mph, not 20.

--David Wittenberg
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: advice about MTB brake cables
From: David Penner <dp2y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 09:24:21 -0400 
Organization: Doctoral student, Psychology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I've got a pair of the new Xt low profiles. I find the new cable system
to be a real pain. I've been thinking of just switching back to the old
type of straddle cable and hanger system. I can't see why this would be
a problem, and it would be a lot easier to set up. Any comments?

dp
From: jbrandt@hplred.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:43:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Sensor for Computer
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA