HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Shoba Tanamukra
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Agra's Fame
Date: 24 Jan 93 01:50:19 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: isnext16.cl.msu.edu



                                      |
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               /^\             /^\ \     / /^\             /^\
               |O| /^\        (   )|-----|(   )        /^\ |O|
               |_| |-|    |^-^|---||-----||---|^-^|    |-| |_|
               |O| |O|    |/^\|/^\||  |  ||/^\|/^\|    |O| |O|
               |-| |-|    ||_|||_||| /^\ |||_|||_||    |-| |-|
               |O| |O|    |/^\|/^\||(   )||/^\|/^\|    |O| |O|
               |-| |-|    ||_|||_||||   ||||_|||_||    |-| |-|
               |O| |_|----|___|___|||___|||___|___|----|_| |O|
               |_|/_______________________________________\|_|
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From: ckohli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (chiranjeev kohli)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: QUESTION:  GREEN CARD FOR PARENTS:  PLEASE HELP
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:24:29 GMT
Organization: Indiana University


Background:  I am a permanent resident, and so is my only brother.  My parents 
have come to visit us.  They arrived in November, '92 with a six month stay,
and a five year multiple entry visa.  My brother becomes a citizen in June '94.
Then he should be able to sponsor my parents for permanent residence.  However,
my parents' six month stay permit expires in may '93.

Question:  How can we get them green card with the minimum (to none) trips to
India (for financial and age reasons)?

Also, specifically, do they have to go to India to get the green card when the time comes, or
can it be done here?

Thanks. 

Sincerely,

Kohli
From: g7tn@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Mehendale Shashank)
Subject: For UTexas at Arligton students
Organization: University of New Brunswick, Fredericton, NB, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:54:20 GMT

Hi Fellows,
	I am looking for E-mail address of Rahul Dabake .He was to join your 
University this term in Biomedical Engg.
	Eager for your reply.
	Thank you
.Shashank Mehendale  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Re: Some of Rajeev Gowda's actual views on Ayodhya ...
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:38:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.163850.15432@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>,
bond@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Girish) writes:
> In article <1993Jan22.172330.17249@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com
(alok.vijayvargia) writes:
> >In article <C15w7t.8AJ@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>,
gowda@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (M.V.Rajeev Gowda) writes:
> >
> >[...... stuff deleted ......]
> >> If my understanding of the history of this conflict is right, then:
> >> 
> >> The Babri Masjid was being used until the late 40's/early 50's
> >> when idols of Rama "miraculously" appeared in the mosque.  A
> >
> >Let's not forget that the place has been under dispute even before that.
> >Accounts published on this net indicate that even during British Raj,
> >there were conflicts on this in Ayodhya. During Mogul period also, there
> >were flaring up of conflicts on this, however they were brutally suppressed
> >during the Moghul period for obvious reasons. During British period,
> >Britishers articulately managed the conflict to keep both Hindus and Muslims
> >under control.
> >[.........]
> 
> 
>     Yes, Hindus have been fighting for the Ram Janma Bhoomi since
>     Mir Baqi demolished a temple and constructed a mosque-like
>     structure on top of it in 1528.
> 
>     In 1855, Hindu-Muslim clashes erupted over shrine. But the
>     dispute was resolved temporarily by erecting a wall around 
>     the disputed structure. In the rebellion of 1857, the near-
>     defunct Muslim dynasties tried to curry favor with the Hindus
>     in order to launch joint effort to re-estiblish their rule.
>     The Nawab promised to give the Hindus the Ram Janma Bhoomi
>     site back, in an effort to quench their anti-Muslim animosity
>     and redirect their attention towards the new common enemy
>     from Britain. This is the only instance in modern history
>     when Muslims offered concessions to Hindus. But this promise
>     never materialized.
> 
>     In May 1883, Hindus asked for a permission to build a temple
>     at the Ram Janma Bhoomi site. Following objections from some
>     Muslim leaders, Deputy Commissioner of Saket (Faizabad) refused
>     the Hindu plea.
> 
>     In January 1885, the mahant of Ram Janmasthan requested permission
>     to construct a temple by moving a petition in the court of a
>     subjudge at Saket. The request was turned down and the appeal 
>     was dismissed. Probably, the court decisions at that time were
>     manipulated too! :-)
> 
> 
>     -- Girish.
> 
> 




What I can't understand is that if the matter was so obvious and evidence
so irrefutable why did the BJP-RSS-VHP shrink from presenting the court with
such evidence and solve the matter once and for all. 

The judges certainly aren't so dumb that they would refuse to accept such
"irrefutable" evidence!!.

The BMAC couldn't have called the bluff for so long if the BJP combine
weren't sure of the evidence themselves. 



--Javed.
From: krashok@mse.ogi.edu (Ashok Krishnamurthy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: A Passage from the Rig Veda
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:44:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.48984
Distribution: world
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Material Science & Engineering


  A month ago,murgesh@entropy.esd.sgi.com(Murgesh Navar)
  posted the following fascinating passage from the Rig
  Veda:

>
               A Passage from the Rig veda 
                ---------------------------

        Then there was neither being nor non-being:
        There was no air, nor firmament beyond it.
        Was there a stirring ? Where ? Beneath what cover ?
        Was there a great abyss of unplumbed water ?

        There was no death nor anything immortal;
        Nor any sign dividing day from night.
        That One thing, in the stillness, breathed quiescent;
        No second thing existed whatsoever.

        Darkness was hidden in a deeper darkness;
        This All was as a sea without dimensions;
        The void still held unformed what was potential,
        Until the power of Warmth produced the sole One...

        Who truly knows, and who can here declare it ?
        Whence it was born, and how this world was fashioned ?
        The gods came later than the earth's creation:
        Who knows then out of what the world has issued ?

        Whatever he made the world or did not make it,
        He knows whence this creation came, he only
        Who in the highest heavens guards and watches;
        He knows indeed, but then, perhaps, he knows not!


>

        I have the following comment to make:

        The last line is similar to St.John's statement in
        the Fourth Gospel of the New Testament:

             " And the light shineth in the darkness;and    
               the darkness comprehendeth it not."

        Probably the above lines and the last line of the
        passage indicate that the creation of the universe
        is a spontaneous process rather than a self-willed
        one.          

        If there are any other opinions/comments/interpretations,                       please post them on the net.




Ashok Krishnamurthy,
Dept. of MS & E,
OGI,Oregon,USA.
---------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: tolia@chiller.ecn.purdue.edu (Anish Arun Tolia)
Subject: Re: Regarding Indian Behaviour . . .
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:22:46 GMT

In article <1k4hfo$rh1@agate.berkeley.edu> c60b-1ky@web-1g.berkeley.edu () writes:
>
>
>
>
>   Recently I have been reading alot of crap on this group. There are hardly 
>any sincere people here any more. All that are left are people who being 
>Indian think of themselves as White. They denounce their own culture and 
>tease their misfortunate brothers back home. Living in this morally devoid 
                                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>society one should have all the more respect for our way of life, our 
>heritage and customs, but Indians here have forgotten the Gandhi's, 
>Vivekananda's, Nehru's who strove to rid us of the West. Thank God they are
>not alive to witness what a mockery we have made of their sacrifice.
>
>
>					- Vikram.

Morally devoid society? As opposed to the wonderfully moral society back home? The
same "moral"
society that kills people simply because of religion? The same "moral" society that
has no regard for life and law? The same "moral" society that selectively aborts
female fetuses and burns women for dowry? My friend, Indians in India dont remember
Gandhi and Vivekanand either so please spare us this sanctimonious crap about
moral superiority.

Anish
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: bala@research.att.com (Bala Krishnamurthy)
Subject: Indian Airlines Plane Hijacked: News Report
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:19:58 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Keywords: IA Plane Hijack

apnews reports:
           NEW DELHI, India (AP) _ A passenger on an Indian Airlines plane
who claimed he had a bomb forced the pilot to return to the airport
soon after takeoff, news reports said.
           The plane, carrying 48 passengers, was on a scheduled flight
from the northern city of Lucknow to New Delhi, Press Trust of
India reported.
           United News of India said it was not immediately clear if the
passengers were allowed to get off the plane.
           No other details were immediately available.

----------

when i get more details i'll post to sci.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: A Passage from the Rig Veda
From: <RIPBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1993 22:47:54 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

I would like to point out that this hymn that has been quoted is not at
all typical of the Rigveda.  It is a much quoted hymn, but in its
mysticism and beauty, it is very different from the usual hymns that one
finds in the Rigveda.  Here is a more typical one:

  How, what priest's sacrifice hath he made mighty rejoicing in the Soma
and its fountain?  Delighting in juice, eagerly drinking, the Lofty one
hath waxed for splendid riches.  (IV-XXIII)

  And here is another one, again selected at random:

  Thou art attached to pressed out Soma, Indra, at laud, at prayer, and
when the hymn is chanted;  Or when with yoked Bays, Maghavan, thou comest
O Indra, bearing in thine arms the thunder.

The hymn originally quoted, the hymn of creation, occurs in book X, the
last book of the Rigveda.  To my mind it represents a transition from
`praising the gods and asking them for favours', which characterises
most of the Rigveda, to a query about the nature of the Universe.
This latter spirit is much more characteristic of the Upanishads,
than of the Rigveda itself.

Rohit Parikh
From: farid@dso011.sch.ge.com (Farid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: THE LATEST
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:49:53 GMT
Organization: GE Power Generation

In article <1993Jan21.194305.22749@ucselx.sdsu.edu> pjoseph@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Paul Joseph) writes:
>< Virendra Verma writes >
>< Re: Kennedy killed by a Christian/ Hitler a Christian >
>
>Just to let you know - being in the west and having a western name
>does not imply being a christian - Hitler was not a christian, 
>in fact in his war propoganda, Bibles were thrown into bon-fires.
>As for Kennedy's killer - he didnt do a very Christian thing -
>thou shalt not kill! - I am not sure if he was born a christian though.
>
>I do not agree with the statement that propmted this from Verma, that
>Gandhiji was killed by a Hindu - so what there are criminals everywhere,
>doesnt mean that that's what Hinduism preaches though.
>
>Paul


	You said it Paul !

	One can not become a hindu / muslim / christian / budhist / jainist ...
	just by having a name of that class. The individual actions of an
	individual or a specific group can not be attributed to a religion or
	a system unless his/her actions are exactly what the religion/system
	preaches ( with the corect understanding and interpretation ).

	If the person who killed Mahatma had a hindu name.. that doesn't mean
	that 'all hindus are killers or murderers'.We should really look into
	what and who inspired him for such a criminal deed.

	Did he fail to understant Mahatma's message or somebody misguided him.

	Was it a personal reaction (an individual act) or was he used as a tool
	to cut the life-thread of Mahatma, by some body ?

	But yes couldn't agree with u more .. Criminals are everywhere ...
	No religion teaches intolerance and hatred ....       


	[ Satayam-o-Jayte ] [ Truth will always win (sooner or later) ]


	[ You can not eliminate hatred by hatred Only Love can do it ]

	[ Aadil Farid ]



	Disclaimer : My views are my own .. My employer is not responsible for
		     anything what I express.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: banerjee@hsc.usc.edu (Samit Banerjee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Sthan's pique
Date: 27 Jan 1993 12:22:58 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: hsc.usc.edu

Veeramany.Sthanumurthy@launchpad.unc.edu croaks yet again :

>Remember my inability to "seperate[sic] fact from fiction" ...
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Good job - with the spelling, I mean.
>
>Sub-tera-fuge too baby!
	       ^^^^^^^^^

This is pathetic...watching a feeble mind disintegrate. Not only have 
you lost your usual acerbic style, you have descended to the level of
plagiarizing Asim Mughals donkey's style. That truly is sick.

Now if imitation were the sincerest form of flattery, Mustafa may have 
been tickled pink, although I doubt if he would have rushed to embrace you.
There are things, even a Mustafa wont do. 

If things persist at this level, I may have to go back and renominate
Nimmala as my principal betenoire on SCI. He atleast made it worth my time.


Samit

std. disclaimer  I hope this does not violate Mr.Asthana's code of ethics.
		 Please check with me before complaining to my sys.admin.
-- 
Samit Banerjee,			    |  
University of Southern California   |  A man who smiles when things go wrong,
Internet: banerjee@scf.usc.edu      |  has found somebody to blame it on.
Bellnet : (213) 342-1401            |  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: pink@shell.portal.com (Ravi Kumar)
Subject: Hijacking of IA Airplane
Keywords: Just heard over the local radio
  
Organization: Portal Communications Company
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:55:42 GMT

Ravi Kumar
From: ajay@mercury.aichem.arizona.edu (Ajay Shah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: (misleading) Indian Express Advertisement re: RJB
Date: 22 Jan 93 05:40:30 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science


arun@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Arun Achyuthan) writes

Can you please quote relevant passages from Pramath's post to
rpove that he equated RSS/VHP with Nazi? If not please admit that
you made a mistake or that you deliberatley tried to mislead the
readers of this newsgroup.

----------------------

Here are some of the other paragraphs from the India Alert mailing
list (Pramath's own words)

There is a war on for the minds of people, and whatever
front we can fight it on, we should.  First, Sitaram
Yechuri, in a soul stirring article in the Hindu, talked
about pseudo-Hinduism, quoted Golwalkar left right and centre,
and had the RSS types running for a while. I will post the
areticle soon. The RSS denied the existence  of the book (We ...),
and finally a letter to the editor from one Dr.seetharamiah of
Narsapur, accused Yechuri of playing fast and loose with his
facts, and quoted what he claimed was the correct quote- a very
sanitized version of the stuff N.Balaji gave us. This had us
all in a quandry, but I was confident that Yechuri was right,
and that there probably two editions of the book. I guess
Yechuri also figured that out, and came out with a spirited
defence of his article, and said that his quotes were absolutely
correct. His defense appeared in today's Hindu. So that is a
small victory.

--------------------------

As you may know (if you don't Pramath can forward a copy) of the
quotes and the book he is talking about - has been used by
the communists to equate RSS's second Sarsanghchalak Guruji Golwalkar
as a Nazi sympathizer.  Over two years ago, I posted articles 
by Golwalkarji which clearly criticized Hitler and Nazi Germany
on several grounds and said that it is one of the dangers all  
socities must guard against.                    
As it is clear from Pramath's mail, it is a common communist      
tactic to equate RSS with Nazis and then cry McCartyism when exposed.
            
In the culture, where being a victim gets you a lot more political 
milage than otherwise, the communists have figured out rather
well how play their vicious game. 


*******************************
Ajay Shah
ajay@mercury.aichem.arizona.edu
******************************* 

ps: due to problems in our software, this post may appear twice.
My apologies if that happens.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.pakistan
From: sirdesh@fzi.uka.de (Sameer Sirdeshpande)
Subject: Re: Indo-china issues, Sum lien
Reply-To: fzi.de
Organization: Forschungszentrum Informatik (FZI), Karlsruhe, Germany
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:56:28 GMT

In article <1jenitINNmfa@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, jxl43@po.CWRU.Edu (Jianfeng Li) writes:
|> 
|> In a previous article, dchacko@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU (Daniel Chacko) says:
|> 
|> 
|> > Instead of funnelling over 65% of your  national resources into your 
|> >xenophobic, power-hungry, expansionist military, why not re-direct
|> >your resources into agricultural and consumer based industries. Instead of 
|> >developing its 15th zillionth nuke, how about investing money in buying
|> >agricultural capital goods so you more efficently cultivate your land and
|> >increase food production. This way, China wont have to sell weapons to
|> >acquire the hard currency its needs to buy food on the open market.
|> >
|> >   It is an interesting thought that China "sells" weapons to merely feed 
|> >its people. Are you sure it doesnt have anything to do with Mao's philosophy
|> >of violently spreading communism?
|> >
|> >  - Dan
|> >
|> Interesting!
|>  
|> I am really interesting on where you got your data on the 65% stuff.
|> Actually , by selling weapons China can earn about $2-6 bils. That is it.
|> But today, to China ,the international trade totally is over $160 bils.
|> China buy corn from the states is not because chinese want eat it, most 
|> chinese like rice and used to it. The corn imported from the states is for
|> industry purpose. i.e., make acetone or ethyl alcohol out of it.
|> Just to update your data base: China enjoy 12% GNP increase rate. If you
|> happen to know that some other place has higher rate ,please do tell me.
|> 
|> It is true that China need a lot more years to bypass U.S. on GNP term,
|> some say twenty years, I would like to put 10 more. But so what. Chinese can
|> be very patient. 
|> 
|> After that many centuries( 20 ,30 or one can say 40),we are still here.I mean
|> our culture and our people. At the same time, other civilizations are long 
|> gone either on culture meaning or on genetic code.
|> 
|> Regards/Jianfeng  Li

Where did Daniel get all this crap from? China has an extremely progressive economy and the average Chinese is rich compared to the average Indian. At least all Chinese have enough to eat! Also, Chinese exports to the US and other countries are very large: the quality of their manufactured goods is excellent and their industrial growth, organisation and application of national resources is far better than India's. I wish India could do it at least half as well. Deng Xiaoping has managed to increase living 

standards in the Chinese countryside by an amazing amount since his reforms started in 1978. All this is documented very well in the article "When China wakes: a survey of China" in the Economist, November 1992, which deals with the politics and economy of China.

First of all, visit China and see how the average man in the street there lives before you jump to paranoic conclusions.

Sam 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:45659 soc.culture.pakistan:19913 soc.culture.bangladesh:7737
From: naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Attacks on muslims help moderates?? (Re: Beyond The Babri Masjid
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:44:13 GMT
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1993Jan26.020012.5906@Cadence.COM> aagarwal@Cadence.COM (Alok Agarwal) writes:


   Following is an article on the aftermath of Dec 6 Ayodhya incident.

   If that incident can make Muslims realise about the danger to the
   community on account of the current Muslim leadership and give
   voice to more Muslim moderates and intellectuals and enable the
   progressives to assume the leadership, then the Dec 6 incident would
   have done a major service to the country.

-Alok Agarwal
----

Alok,

If you look at the pattern of the ascension of the extremist palestinian
faction of Hamas, the reports clearly state that the PLO moderate faction
has been further weakened by the recent expulsion of Palestinians and
Hamas has gained a lot of support from younger palestinians in the west
bank. Similarly, the massacres at Sabra and Shatila weakened for 4 years the
moderate faction within PLO that had urged Arafat to recognize Israel at the
UN. When the peace talks started up under the Bush administration, the
faction led by Hanan Ashrawi was forced by extremist palestinian leadership
to take a hard-line stance against the renewal of settlements in the occupied
territory. Jerusalem Post recently printed an editorial by Ariel Sharon
[accused of responsibility in Shatila massacres] in which he argued that
present left-wing Labor govt in Israel is too soft in dealing with two 
outspoken Arab members of the Knesset. Clearly extremist palestinian leaders
are gaining power as a result of attacks on palestinians. Similarly, the right
in Israel is on the rise again as attacks on Israelis increase.

Similarly, after the gulf war, support for more extremist islamic movements
skyrocketed in Algeria, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Hosni Mubarak's moderate
leadership had its legitimacy weakened because of the west's attacks on
Iraqis. The muslims in the middle east, feeling under attack by the west,
rallied to the side of fundamentalist groups that called for attacks on the
"common enemy".

I think it is wishful thinking to hope that attacks on muslims will help more 
moderate muslim leaders rise to the front in India.In fact if you look at the
pattern of grass-roots extremist movements today, most of them have been
helped by attacks on their community. In fact NY Times article on killings
in Bombay [posted] had one muslims moderate saying that if young, hot-headed
muslims now wanted to enact revenge, their elders would not be able to hold
them in check.

The Babri incident has given more power to extremist muslim leaders and 
weakened the moderates. 

--Naeem Mohaiemen

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