HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Organization: Software Licensing Technology Group
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 13:06:59 GMT


Bill White - I'm sorry, but the crude news reader I can use from home
makes hash out of my attempts to quote messages.

Your reply to my posting on the length of a railgun reads like you
started to reply before you got to the second example.  Of COURSE
you wouldn't want to accelerate at 1 g!  That's why there were
two examples.

You suggested accelerating the mass within 1 second, an acceleration
of 8,000 meters / second ** 2.  Let's see - that's only 816 g's.
Your packaging and any payload would have to be built to take that
kind of stress - every kilogram of mass becomes 816 kilograms of
force trying to rip itself to pieces.  About the only thing you'd
want to ship that way would be very high-value items where the
value outweighs the cost of engineering them to take that kind
of acceleration and bulk materials that wouldn't notice.  I sure
wouldn't want to try to design a tank to hold liquid under those
conditions.  Solid raw materials could be shipped that way, but 
I thought the whole point was to get machinery and, possibly,
people up there to OBTAIN the raw materials?

				- - Steve







-- 
Don't miss the 49th New England Folk Festival,
April 23-25, 1993 in Natick, Massachusetts!
From: SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Santa Claus/ Kris Kringle
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 08:57:54 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Kris Kringle is originally from the Low Countries, not the Nordic ones; the
latter had various Yule elves/trolls/gnomes.  -- Robert

(Robert Mathiesen, Brown University, SL500000@BROWNVM)
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: PAGAN, was You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 28 Dec 1992 08:21:12 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

In article <725482216.AA07890@urchin.fidonet.org> Sirbyte'@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Sirbyte') writes:
>
>>A "witch" was (as I understand it, 
>>please correct if wrong) a member of 
>>the
>>wiccan.  Members of the wiccan 
>>studied wicca.  Wicca means 
>>something like
>>"ways of the wise ones" or "ways of 
>>the old ones".  Therefore the original
>>meaning of the word witch is 
>>"practitioner of the old ways" or 
>>something like
>>that.  I really wouldn't call that devil worshipping.
>>
> AB>  Can you back this with anything 
> AB> verifiable or academic?
>
>Well, just curious but can you come up with any thing to the contrary
>,acedemic and verifiable.  Now to insinuate insult or impolitness but
>why is there always such a haeted arguement to the precice meaning of a
>word or of a name of a belief system.  Should'nt just either pool our
>resorces and come up with one single working defintion to discuss,  or
>keep our own opinions to our selves and educate and share knowledge as
>opposed to having a pissing contest every time a new question is asked. 
>Now just from my own ideals I don't really care 'whos got the biggest
>god on the astral block' i just would like to hear experiances support
>and thoughts.  We are all on the same side here.  Lets try an open mind
>for a change,  it is us who is supposed to be the open minded ones.  If
>it were the Xians we might have avoided things like the inquisition and
>Salem.

 Well, GEE, I guess we can just say that Wicca means crystal using
survivors from Atlantis that live on Venus. Can you you come up for a
reference that says I'm wrong? After all, we have to have an open mind...

 Be careful your mind isn't so open that it falls out.

>-The voice of a true Magickian is an awe ispiring thing to behold-

 Maybe you should find this voice then.

 Wassail,
 Grendel Grettisson
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Quilts (was: Re: sowing bags)
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:05:49 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <1992Dec30.204735.2100@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan) writes:
> 
> In article <lk3h76INNr32@news.bbn.com>, dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
> 
> If I may continue the high-falutin' talk, the problem with the five-
> pointed star is that it yields a pentagon as your basic building block,
> and the pentagon won't tesselate the plane.  (For those of you who
> AREN'T math dweebs and don't have a dictionary handy, pentagons won't
> fit together neatly to cover a plane.)
> 
> Eight-pointed stars are usually embedded in a square, and six-pointed
> stars in a hexagon.  Both tesselate.
> 
> To use five-pointed stars, you'll have to make them part of a design
> that isn't based on the pentagram.  For example, you can put a 
> pentacle inside a square or hexagon.

Hexagons, squares, and equilateral triangles are the only REGULAR
tesselations, but there are other IRREGULAR tesselations including
things like Escher's fish and birds.  (And wouldn't that make a lovely
quilt?)  So two possibilities for pentagram tilings would either include
regular pentagons with other shapes to form a tiling, or would have
irregular five pointed shapes coming together in some sort of order.
The Penrose tilings (I said Moore-Penrose earlier, but I think I got that
confused with Moore-Penrose generalized inverses) are more or less
five sided, so if you didn't care if your stars were a bit rowdy and
disorderly you could do a pentagram-like quilt.  I've tried some
sketches that would look crummy in ascii so I'm not even going to try,
but the overall effect that I'm coming up with looks more patriotic
than pagan.  It looks stitchable though.  The main problem is that the
pieces would all end up with bias cuts, so the fabric would stretch and
not be as strong.

Now that I look at these sketches though, I don't think that an irregular
funny-pentagram would look at all pagan.  If the idea was to make an
altar cloth or a religious themed quilt, then I think applique or
a shadow or corded quilt would be the way to go.

Dawn
"What if I had PMS all my life, and told you you looked just like Barney Fife,
What if I twisted it in like a knife, Until it made you cry? Until it made
you lie? Would you still love me?"
"What If..." by Bongwater
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: PAGAN, was You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 23:59:58 GMT


>>think it is better to use, oh, I dunno, the actual NAME of your faith system,
>>if it has one, and if it doesn't, then why throw a silly Christianity-derived
>>term on there?  I find the word is used largely for attention-getting and 
>>pretense.
----

I don't think that most of the Pagans
who use the term are either a) mocking
Christianity or b) seeking attention.
The reality is that there are a whole
-BUNCH- of pagan/neopagan religions 
out there, and "pagan" has evolved as 
a blanket term to embrace religions of
pantheism, polytheism, Goddess worship,
magic, ecology, etc etc etc (I don't 
want to ressurect the debate on what
constitues a "real" pagan; define the
term however you wish).

This is, in my mind, a convienient 
compromise; otherwise, we'd have to 
call this alt.wicca.druids.asatru.
women's spirituality.Gaia Theorists.
Faerie Spirituality.Taoism.Hinduism.
Lamaism.Shinto.Shamanism.Native 
Spirituality.New Age.magic.magick.
magik.ritual magic.natural magic.
Ceremonial magic.etc etc etc...

-- 
I thank the Goddess for my life,
I thank the Goddess for my loves,
I thank the Goddess for continued blessings.
     -- Z Budapest
From: lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Why the Cross?
Date: 31 Dec 1992 19:23 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: elroy.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1hufonINNht9@uwm.edu>, pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii) writes...
>In article <30DEC199213204214@jane.uh.edu> lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:

...my post deleted.....

> 
>Hmmm, I don't think I explained myself well enough.  What I'm trying to get 
>at is this:  the major point of Xianity is the sacrafice of Jesus's life for
>the redemption and cleasning away of sin from humanity.   
> 
>The symbol for that sacrafice is the cross upon which he died.  Therefore,
>the symbol for Xianity is the cross or the crucifix.
> 

First of all, the idea of the scrafice upon the cross being the central 
theme of Xtianity did not occur until much later.  In the early days of
Xtianity, and I am speaking primarily of the first and second centuries,
this was not the case.  Today it is emphasized because at some point
the Xtians were attempting to convert some pagans and the use of the
pagan cross symbollically with the "death" of Jesus worked.


>My point in bringing up that quote from the Bible was to point out the idea
>behind the sacrafice "God gave His only son . . . "

No where in that quote does it mention anything about crucifixion (sp).  In
fact, it doesn't refer to anything concerning the "death" of Jesus.  God
sacrificed his son to the world, in effect gave him, or set him down upon,
the world, to spread the "truth" so that "whosoever believeth in him shall
not perish".  


> 
>I quite agree with you re biblical translations, after the number of
>translations are revisions the Bible has been thru, to rely on it as The
>Literal Truth would be a big mistake.
> 
>One other point, something that always seemed odd to me:  there is so much
>emphasis upon the death of Jesus, but little on the truly big event, his
>resurrection 3 days later.  That, to me, seemed the biggest, most important
>event in the life of this prophet, yet in many contemporary re-tellings of
>the tale, this point is most decidely ignored.  Commentary?
> 

You have a point there.  Let me think on that one......

>Peter Thomas
> 
>-- 
>"I'll lose my beard when they shave it from my cold, dead face!"
> 
>Quote from the Razor's Anonymous Handbook
> 

Tammy
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: The Holly & The Ivy, etc.
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:11:30 GMT
Reply-To: boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <Bzr4uK.F2H@world.std.com>, knighton@world.std.com
(Gwen Knighton) writes:

[songs deleted]

[referring to "Lord of the Dance"]
> (Obviously, this does go on about Jesus, but like 
> _The Holly and the Ivy_ and so many other folksongs,
> you don't have to look too hard to see the P/pagan 
> elements shining through. Whoever heard of 
> the Dancing Jesus, anyway? :-] )
 
"The Lord of the Dance" uses the tune from the Shaker hymn
"Simple Gifts".  I don't know off-hand where the words come
from;  I have a couple of references at home, and I can check
tonight.  Shakers often expressed themselves with movement
and dance during their meetings, which earned them the
derogatory label "Shaker" (or "Shaking Quaker").  Eventually,
they adopted the label for themselves.

Of course, this morning I can't even remember what the official
name of the Society was . . .

				- - Steve

--
Don't miss the 49th New England Folk Festival,
April 23-25, 1993 in Natick, Massachusetts!
From: rjb@carson.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Date: 2 Jan 93 00:46:34 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu


$50 for Pike's _Morals and Dogma_?  Around here it's a drug on the market --
great expression that nowadays makes very little sense.  Generally it
runs $8 to $15 at used bookstores.

(Now that I've posted this, I'll never see another copy, I'm sure.)

Ob documented evidence:

1)  "Documentation" doesn't have to be documents.  It can be other
    traces or records of activities or affiliations.

2)  But documentation of what?  The wonderful objects in Quinn's
    _Early Mormonism_ are documentation of magical practices, for
    example, but certainly not documentation of the existence of
    Gardnerian Wicca.  Documentation of a history of esoteric
    interests in a family isn't necessarily documentation of
    involvement with some sort of "witch" spirituality -- though
    records current Wicca involvement may be one more link in a
    long chain of esoteric affiliations within a family.

One problem is that the way we slice the cake isn't necessarily the way
our ancestors sliced it -- so goodies that show up in one slice in for
us may have shown up in another slice for them.  Thus certain activities
that show up in the "magic" slice for us may have shown up in the
"science" slice for them.  The same thing is true of the "p/Pagan" and
"c/Christian" slices.  (The "christian" isn't just a gesture towards symmetry:
in certain communities even recently wasn't "christian" used (though
capitalized, no doubt, if anyone happened to write it down), like
"soul," to indicate any generic person?)  Not everything that falls into
our Pagan and Christian slices fell into the same slices for  people a few
centuries ago.

There are two different sorts of claims here, as Robert and Amanda and 
others have pointed out:  historical claims and spiritual claims.  
Historical claims that include claims that they are true no matter what
documentation there is or isn't, and no matrer what the documentation
says, are pretty silly, though fervent believers are often tempted
to make them, or at least to accept them.  

Spiritual claims are something else entirely:  the test of their
validity is not historical, but spiritual.

Minor poets and dull boring verse have histories and can be documented,
just as major poets and moving verse have histories and can be documented.
The testhistorical claims about poetry is documentation (who wrote it, when,
and so on); the test of poetic claims is poetic effect.  The fact that
a poem is 50 years old and not 5,000 years old has very little bearing
on whether it makes your hair stand on end when it suddenly comes to
mind when you're busy making little ones out of big ones.

--LeGrand
From: lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Nomenclature./Men are Not witches!
Date: 22 Dec 1992 15:49 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: elroy.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Dec22.211732.7987@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes...
>sirbyte@brewich.hou.tx.us (William hancock) writes:
>: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>: > : The correct terminology for a man who endeavors to engage in magical
>: > : practices is "Warlock".  The more gender nuetral term would be

Actually this isn't true.  (I know, I know, .... flame away)

I don't remember the word that it comes from, but the original latin that
the word "Warlock" comes from means "betrayer".  A warlock is someone in
the occult that betrayes his/her own.

The reason I know this is because one of my teachers was accused of being
a warlock.  It was a vast misunderstanding, but then again emotions were
running high.

BB,

Tammy the flamebait
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Quilts (was: Re: sowing bags)
Date: 30 Dec 1992 15:48:54 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <1992Dec29.183630.23309@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan) writes:
> 
> In article <lipuccINN9jd@news.bbn.com>, dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
> 
> > (If someone thinks this doesn't belong in this newsgroup, I'm sure we could
> > come up with some pagan themes for quilts.)
> 
> Who needs an excuse?  What ideas do you have for a quilt?

I was thinking of the different star patterns that can be made with patchwork.
Eight and six pointed stars are easy to do (well, you have to sew fairly 
well to make an eight pointed star match up in the center, but the basic
techniques are easy to do and the patterns are easy to find.)  I still
haven't found a five pointed star pattern, and haven't figured out how to
draft one.  I once saw something called a Moore-Penrose (?) tiling in a
math journal that can make five pointed stars, but they didn't look like
pentacles at all.

(For the math nerds reading this, a quilt is nothing more or less than
a tesselation of the plane.  I've always wanted to check out the math
journals for cool tilings to make quilts from, but the way my life 
is going post-baby, I probably won't do it.)

Something else that caught my eye a while back was an Amish applique 
quilt to commemorate your dead.  One corner of it contained a graveyard
with little coffins with the name of the person embroidered on it, and
the rest of the quilt had little images from the persons life, like 
symbols for their hobbies and interests, or scenes from their life.
And they had a section with coffins of their living relatives that were
just pinned to the quilt.  When the person died, then they moved the
coffin into the graveyard and sewed it down.  Struck me as a little
ghoulish.

I guess another possibility is to have a white quilt and just draw 
whatever you like with the thread in a quilting pattern.  My last
quilt had eight pointed stars alternating with white squares, with
pictures quilted into the white squares.  Actually, I only finished
one of the white squares, and since it takes about five hours to do  
one right, and there's about twenty left to do, it ain't gonna happen
till the baby goes to college.  But the plans were for these intricate
star-crosses on the corners and the centers, and pictures of the zodiac
in the others.  Sigh.  At least it's still useful without the fancy
quilting.

Dawn

Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
"Folk Song" by Bongwater
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: anyone going to Arisia?
Date: 28 Dec 92 18:02:47 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

Is anyone going to be at Arisia (a Boston area con Jan 15-17)?  If so,
can we manage some kind of get together or lunch or something?  Seems
like there's a lot of Boston area folks on the newsgroup lately.

Dawn

Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
"Folk Song" by Bongwater
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Politics and Environment
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:50:52 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

Once again I am posting a fairly long article on the environment.  I
believe that the issues, structures and tactics discribed in this 
article are relevant to the pagan community.  However, if you are
not interested in the subject I wish to let people know that the
next Politics and Environment article is a biggie.
BB
Paul

-- 
                          * * * * * * *
"It is possible to join forces, to identify common goals, and to agree on
 common action." - U.N. World Commission on Development and Environment
		       casspa@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: spbaker@mtu.edu (Shaun P. Baker)
Subject: Re: Tree Prayin' Fey Talkin' Foo'
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:05:05 GMT

Another practice that I really prefer is to simply sit under a tree with your
back against the bark and relax.  If you're feeling down and out, this is a 
real 'pick-me-up'.  Not to mention the ease of relaxing to the sound of the 
leaves (so long as it's not winter; then you have to deal with pine sap).    ;}

I'm sure each tree will affect one differently, but I haven't had the time to
go field test each tree in the forest.  For now I'll just have to stick with an
old favorite - an ancient wolf oak.

As Above, So Below.
Shaun

Geology rocks!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: luikero@pcuf.fi (Lauri Kero)
Subject: Re: Meaning of pentagram, pentacle for You
Organization: The PC-users of Finland
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 20:31:10 GMT

Reply_to_article_from: napalm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (jason hill)
 
> hehehehe well this is my first time posting (another lurker emerges)
> anyhow ive been lurking a long time and final learned how to post.
 
        My post was the second I have done to this group :-)
 
> anyway have you ever noticed that the pentacle includes a anarchy
> symbol?
 
        Nay, I don't think so.
        Are you mixing this with the pentagram:
 
                 A         A
                  A ------A
                   A     A I
                  I A   A   I
                 I   A A     I
                I     A       I
                 I   A A     I
           AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                   A-----A--
                  A       A
                 A         A
 
        Sheesh, it's difficult to draw in ASCII, but that's supposed to
        look like an 'A' written on a circle with overlong lines.
 
 
 
-- luikero@pcuf.fi (Lauri Kero)
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:14641 talk.religion.misc:24727
From: sieferme@stein.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Truth
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Date: 29 Dec 1992 16:43:22 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

In article <1992Dec29.042902.11064@nuscc.nus.sg> eng10172@nusunix1.nus.sg (POH HONG CHENG) writes:
>ihiimjaiosjdkaksio

Makes sense to me.  Count me as converted!

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
       A Lie is still a Lie, even if you believe it.
---------------------------------------------------------------
From: luikero@pcuf.fi (Lauri Kero)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Subject: Re: Meaning of pentagram, pentacle for You
Date: 30 Dec 92 17:34:21 GMT
Organization: The PC-users of Finland

To_article_from: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
 
>> Tammy:
>> See, to me that really sucks, cause look how many people use a
>> 5-pointed star and all the things they use them for.  Hell, the US
>> flag has 50 5-pointed stars, but you don't hear anybody call it
>> satanic. But put one on a rock album or on a piece of jewelry...watch
>> out!...them gawdless, un-american, sob's are are worshipping the
>> DEVIL....sheez...give me a fucking break.  Do you realize how stupid
>> all that blustering looks?
> I know how you feel, Tammy.
 
        Hey, You and Tammy too, I would want you to feel happy for one
        little thing now: You've converted at least one person who USED
        TO THINK that the pentagram/pentacle is only the symbol on
        Satan or whatever Devil -- me.
 
> Me too.  to have to bury your joy so you won't be persecuted by it
> sucks. to feel put upon everytime you hear an X-mas carol, to have to
> hide your anger when you see a Halloween witch in the pamphlets these
> jerks leave in the fuckin' LAUNDROMAT... I hate it.
 
        It really makes me feel bad to read this, I am so sorry for you.
        I think it would be a lot easier for you in another, smaller,
        country, like Finland for instance. I don't think you would even
        be noticed (Of course you'd be noticed, but not like "Who's this
        satanic evil person?). The problem is that Finland is a very
        expensive country to live in, but hey, we have thousand lakes,
        white winters and green forests.
 
>> They are a part of my soul. Like my hazel eye
 
        What is this hazel eye?
 
> and burn crosses on our lawns
 
        Have they actually done that?
 
 
luikero@pcuf.fi