HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz (tmp))
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Bread machines
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:42:17 GMT
Reply-To: Gary Fritz <fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com>
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4

egdorf@zaphod.lanl.gov (Skip Egdorf) writes:
> I have had no trouble with mine and use it with a wide variety of
> recipes. I do have some special tricks to get good rye, whole-wheat, etc,
> but just dumping in DAK's plain white bread ingredients before bed and
> punching the "bread at 7:00 AM" button also works fine for me.

Consider yourself lucky.  My machine does OK for white bread, but many breads
(lemon, banana wheat, others) are frequently gooey in the middle.  And from
what I heard on the bread-machine mailing list, that's a common problem
with the R2D2's.  They don't do it at first, but over the course of 3-4 mo.
it starts to be a problem.  My "burnt crust" problem is unique to my machine,
as far as I know.

There were also several reports of one model of R2D2's from DAK locking up 
during the "bake" cycle -- filling the house with smoke and turning the bread 
(but thankfully not the house) into cinders.

> Perhaps the fact that I live at 6500 MSL has and affect?

Possibly, but I'm at 5100', so it wouldn't be that different.

> I would love to find some sourdough procedures for this machine.
> I say procedures rather than recipes because I believe that the
> normal recipes will work like a regular oven. Getting the proper
> rise times and kneading will be the trick.

Me too.  I've just barely started to get by-hand sourdough figured out
so I haven't experimented with the machine yet.  I suspect it will be
difficult to get sufficient rise time, given that the longest rise in
the machine is about 2 hours.  My most successful by-hand loaves so far
had 12 hrs culture prep (easy to do before dumping into machine), then
4 hours rise, punch down & form loaves, 1.5 hrs rise.  Seems like you'd
have to mix up the dough and let it do the first rise *before* starting
the bread machine -- maybe you could dump in the ingredients, start the
machine long enough to mix/knead the dough, then reset it and set the timer
to start a regular cycle in another 4 hours.

That might work, but the by-hand loaves I made were so much nicer in texture
than any machine-made bread out of my R2D2 that I don't know it's worth
the trouble...

Gary
Xref: sparky rec.food.sourdough:166 ba.food:2702
From: lara@sgi.com (Lara J Allen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough,ba.food
Subject: Re: San Luis Sourdough
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:55:23 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Silicon Graphics Computer Systems,  Mountain View CA.

>|> where.  Does anyone know of any outlets for SLODough in the Bay Area?
>|> Michael J. Harper
>.Hence the phrase SLODough.   Yes I am interested in finding some too.
>Tom Loupy


Speaking as a SLOGrad :-)
I've searched high and low and finally broke down and
dialed the 1-800 number on the back of some SLO bread
that a friend brought up for me.  There are no distributers
in the Bay Area.  You have to order sets directly from them
which they then UPS to you.

I'll try to remember to post the 1-800 number.  It's at home
and I'm at work.


lara
--
===============================================================================
In Space, No One Can Hear You Meow!                  
             /\_/\ 
            / o o \   Lara J. Allen      DoD# 0391   '86 454LTD
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cherry10.cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: FAQ's
Originator: dadams@cherry10
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:17:48 CDT


 tinsethg@ucs.orst.edu (Glenn Tinseth) writes:
> I've had access to this group for about two weeks and haven't seen the
> FAQ's yet. I also looked in the FAQ archive machine at MIT and they weren't
> there. The group news.answers is also not the place so far. This exhausts my 
> knowledge of where to look. Help anyone?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Glenn


Well, were still getting organized, sort of.  We still have a few details
to work out (like how we are going to link the mailing list to the
newsgroup.)  Can anybody tell me what we need to do to get our FAQs 
placed at the archive machine at MIT?

In the meantime, FAQs are indeed available via anonymous ftp from
ftp.ils.nwu.edu.  Look under the pub/sourdough directory.  Archives
of past discussions are also available.

Jim Mccoy <mccoy@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu> administers the archives
which I update.

shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Rick Shrum) writes:

>I was
>just wondering if someone could send me some BASIC sourdough recipees.

There is a FAQ.recipes, which contains (you guessed it) recipes.



-- 
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.
From: sallyh@StarConn.com (Sally Holmes)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Bread machines
Date: 20 Aug 92 02:38:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: StarConn.1992Aug20.023853.22012
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133

linda@oak.math.ucla.edu (Linda Wald) writes:

> ... Does anybody
>know of a breadmaker that lets you program the rising times etc.?

Yes: the Zojirushi has a programmable cycle. It's a pain to program,
though, because you have to babysit it. You don't just tell it to knead
for 10 minutes, rise for 3 hours, knead again etc: you have to set it to
knead, wait 10 minutes, set it to rise, wait 3 hours, set it to knead...
If you forget and overshoot, you have to start again from the beginning.
This seems like a design that would have been very easy to get right,
but wasn't!

Sally
From: pamhall@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Pamela Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Starting a Starter from Local Atmosphere!
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:23:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Aug13.182321.14987
Organization: Western Washington University


Hello everyone!
I've been reading this group since it "started" and I like it quite a bit.
I've never made sourdough before, but I thought it might be interesting. 
Also, my husband *really* likes store-bought sourdough, and I figured the
homemade stuff would be even better!  So, I decided to make some starter
from the "local atmosphere."

Well, Tuesday at 6:00pm I mixed together some flour (all purpose white
flour) and warm water, stirred vigorously and let it sit (set) all night.
I stirred it again (vigorously) twice during the following day, and by
9:00 pm Wednesday night it was *full* of bubbles!  According to the FAQ
about STARTERS, I shouldn't have expected many (if any) bubbles quite so
soon.  It was also somewhat "puffy."  [I'm not sure if that's the word
I should use.]

Anyway, I'm *completely* new at this and I want to know if something is 
wrong, or is everything completely right!  I put the flour/water mixture
in a wide glass bowl (uncovered) so it has lots of surface area exposed
to the air.  I placed it in a corner of the room by a window (the sun
shines quite nicely through the window and warms the room, but the sun
does not shine directly on the dough).   Is all of this ok?

I'm not even quite sure I know what the mixture is supposed to smell like!
Maybe I'll buy some storemade sourdough bread, smell that and try to make
a comparison.  Well, I also don't know how many bubbles is "enough."
Mine has about 120 small bubbles on the surface (the bowl is about 6" in
diameter) plus bubbles under the surface.  According to everything I've
read in the FAQ (I have no other sources!) this is ok.

Oh, one other thing.  Is it possible for this mixture to go bad?  I mean,
well, I don't know what I mean!  Is it possible that I'm not collecting/growing 
any lacto bacilli, etc, and something else is happening?  I know that's a
dumb question, but I'm a novice!  My house is also about 50 years old and
kind of musty (ugh!)--does that make a difference?  Should I sit the 
mixture by an open window?

Well, thanks for any advice/answers in advance!  
Pamela
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: Wondering about milk...
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:29:08 CDT

 fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz (tmp)) writes:
|dadams@cherry10.cray.com (David Adams) writes:
|: I have never heard anything about dairys adding antibiotics to milk.
|: I have made yogurt with both powderd milk and whole storebought milk.
|
|I don't think the dairies add antibiotics to the *milk*.  However,
|the farmers DEFINITELY add antibiotics to the COWS!  It's not impossible
|that a detectable amount ends up in the milk and messes up the lactobacilli.

How then does the process of drying remove the antibiotic?  (Is it fat-only
soluable?  I doubt it as it often is administered as a water based 
liquid.)  [note: in the original discussion it was mentioned that use of
powdered milk might avoid the antibiotics, thus alowing more lactobacilli to
grow.] 

<but good point for how the antibiotics might get into milk.>

|You might have bought milk that came from less-"innoculated" cows.
|Or the whole theory might be hooey.  :-)

Well, I doubt that "Land -o- Lakes" follows anymore of a pristine or
organic philosophy than any other dairy company.

Besides, all the comercial dairy people make and sell yogurt.  Where do
you think Dannons, Old Home, Land -o- Lakes, Cream -o- Weber, Qualtiy
check, Hy-Vee, What-ever-it-is-where-you-are, ..., gets the milk
for the yogurt they sell?  Further more comercial yogurt is only rarely
non-fat like it is when you use powdered milk to make it.  Look over the
list of ingredients.  Some use some non-fat milk, many use none.

Furthermore almost all cheeses, sour-cream, and buttermilk, as well as yogurt
are cultured by lactobacilli.  If the antibiotics present were to hinder the
growth of lactobacilli it should pose a problem to these other products as
well.  (It is worth noting that often milk that cannot be sold for drinking
milk can be used for making cheese, no?)

On the other hand, lactobacilli itself is responsible for producing certain
toxins, which it is able to tolerate, so perhaps it just tolerates most
of the anti-biotics in the same fashion?




|
|Gary



---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Bread machines
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 18 Aug 92 09:55:01 CDT

This is posted as a favor for one of those without access to the group:


#	From: "Tom Wallace, JSB Corp. " <tomwa@jsbus.COM>

Ray asked about bread makers.  I have had two, and one was kind
of boring, while the second is assume. 

The first one I got was a DAK, which is more or less the same 
as Welbilt. $129.  Round, 1 1/2 pound, looks a little like R2D2.  The 
bread was convenient and easy to make, but it wasn't all that 
special.

The second one I got is a Panasonic.  It makes square loaves,
1 1/2 pounds, and makes truly great bread. ~$195.  I can't 
explain the difference between the bread makers, but the taste is
very, very different. I have _not_ successfully done sourdough in  
it, though, and would like to hear the magic formula from someone 
who has.  

This is not a plug for Panasonic, per se, I suspect that most of 
the large square ones probably share a similar technology.  I 
have also heard good reports from one that starts with a Z, who's 
full name escapes me.

-Tom


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Wallace                                    108 Whispering Pines Drive
JSB Corporation                                   Scotts Valley, CA 95066
408-438-8300 ext 215; (in U.S.) 800-359-3408             FAX 408-438-8360
tomwa@jsbus.com                                                         



Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough,bionet.plants
From: monaghan@carson.u.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan)
Subject: Drying sourdough culture
Summary: What's going on?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:32:38 GMT


David and I have had this running dialog concerning yeast and lactobacilli
in sourdough culture, particularly what happens during the drying process.

I'm crossposting to bionet.plants (OK they're not really plants but give me
a break, they're definitely not animals, are they?) in the hopes some
biology types could settle this or at least lessen the cinfusion some.

------ forwarded stuff  -----------------


On Thu, 13 Aug 1992, David Adams wrote:

If it would kill it in this form I can't see why it wouldn't be even
worse for the powdered form.  We have had quite some success mailing
the powdered flakes for some time now.



To which, I wrote :

I'm not a biologist nor an experienced sourdough, but in it's dried form,
the 'critters' would be dormant, and if I'm not mistaken, in a more
resistant form.


In response to, David wrote:

There has been some speculation that since lactobacilli does not
truly sporulate it may have a more difficult time surviveing
the drying.  There has never been a clear answer for the group.

It is pretty clear (to me) that at least some of the lactobacilli 
survive drying.  I think it may be worth posting your comment
in the hope that it sparks some commentary by some biology types.





Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: vln@icpsr.umich.edu (Victoria Neff)
Subject: Re: making yogurt
Organization: Inter-University Consortium for Political and Social Research
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:40:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.154246.5403@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> steveve@ecs.comm.mot.com (Steve Veeneman) writes:
>Wow!  I just saw David's yogurt recipe and am delighted to find that 
>I am not the only one who makes yogurt so simply.  

I'm sure enjoying this newsgroup.  I used to make bread all the time, and
yoghurt.  I had a sourdough starter that I kept for years.  Then
Real Life intervened and working 40 hours a week and all that stuff.
I'm getting up for trying more baking and sourdough again, just reading
this stuff here.

Anyway, I used to make the yoghurt from the Whole Earth Catalog.  As
I recall, you start with a 2 quart caserole (with lid).  Put in one
can of evaporated milk, 2 cups of powdered milk, one cup of yoghurt,
and enough water to make 2 quarts.  Put on the lid, and put the caserole
into a 200 degree oven.  Shut door, turn off oven.

I found that the yoghurt got better and better as I started batches from
my own yoghurt instead of commercial stuff.  Sweeter.  Creamier in texture.
Maybe I'll have to try that again, too.
From: randy@raven.alaska.edu (Randy Hayman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Bread machines
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:44:03 GMT
Reply-To: randy@raven.alaska.edu (Randy Hayman)
Organization: U of AK - Fairbanks

My wife and I have a great bread machine.  Unfortunately we can't plug
it in without
defibrillating my heart.  We just toss all the ingredients into the
container, and let 'er
rip.  With sourdough, it does take longer, but while it's rising, we can
do other things.

Actually, I am the bread machine, and this past weekend I made 12 loaves
of bread, 
pizza, and a cherry pie -  two loaves of bread and the pizza are gone
already, and
the cherry pie has a nice dent in it.  I made whole-wheat-rye,
rich-white, and
whole-wheat breads, all sourdough, and on top of that, we still had
plenty of time 
to do our normal (non-bread-making-weekend) fun and games.

Nope, you can't convince me that making bread by hand isn't convenient, isn't
easy, is too time-consuming, and all those other excuses for bread machines.
8')


Randy
sxrmh1@orca.alaska.edu


 - After re-reading what I wrote above, I think I woke up on the wrong
side of the 
bed and encountered cold rain and fog once too many times - Hope I
didn't offend
anyone who loves their electric bread machine. 8')

"Anything worth raising is worth raising with sourdough - especially
your kids" - me
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dixon@spot.Colorado.EDU (Life is real?)
Subject: Re: sharing cultures
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:33:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.114629.17164@hemlock.cray.com> dadams@cherry10.cray.com (David Adams) writes:
>
>Instead of making a powder or dried flakes for mailing I mixed
>some of the active wet culture with some flour so that it 
>made a thick past or dough and I put this in an envelope to
>be mailed.
>
>Salt is supposed to slow the growth of yeast (and lactobacilli?)
>and so I might recomend a very small amount of salt by included.
>
>In otherwords, instead of mailing a teaspoon of flakes, mail
>a small wad of regular bread dough.  (I use only flour, water,
>salt, and culture for my white bread or pizza dough)
>
>This should maximize the number of lactobacilli that survive
>with out altering the strain.  (There seems to have been some
>concern about this in the past in the group.)
>
>I suggest working the dough out flat in the bag so that it
>fits in the envelope in a nice fashion.  (The bag I made
>up was about 2 millimeters thick.
>
>
>Disadvantage:
>
>	You can only use this technique for cultures that you
>	are currently using.  (The culture needs to be in a
>	liquid form.)
>

Sounds like a great way to me!  Should a pinhole or two be put in the
baggy to allow out-gassing during the trip?  Maybe using cornmeal in
the paste would allow easier flattening/spreading of the dough and
may help keep the dough from rising in the baggy...although those
automatic mail handlers are probably great for 'punching down' the
dough!  :^)

Brian D.
From: roy@prism.gatech.EDU (Roy Mongiovi)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: baking on clay tiles discovery
Keywords: clay, baking
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:02:31 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


Since the tiles weren't made for cooking, might you not want to worry
about unwanted minerals (like lead) leaching out of the tile and into
the bread?
-- 
Roy J. Mongiovi   Systems Support Specialist        Information Technology
                                                Georgia Institute of Technology
Tough are the souls that tread the knife's edge  Atlanta, Georgia  30332-0715
        J. Tull                                      roy@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cherry10.cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: kneading stretch test discovery.
Originator: dadams@cherry10
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:10:19 CDT


In article <Bsznr4.EB6@fc.sde.hp.com>, fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz (tmp)) writes:
> dadams@cray.com (David Adams) writes:
> : Instead of grabbing a corner and trying to pull I need to 
> : take it very slowly.  Grab the whole dough wad, and grabbing
> : it in two hands slowly and gently squese a flat spot in
> : the center like I am beginning to stretch the dough out 
> : to make a pizza crust.  After the first squeze-tug ...
> : 
> : It sure took alot of words to say something so simple.  :-(
> 
> Unfortunately I'm still confused.  :-(  I'm trying to envision what a
> "squeeze-tug" is, and not having much luck!!  I don't understand why
> you have to grab the whole wad of dough, or whether you're squeezing
> (i.e. trying to press the dough flat) or tugging (like you were trying
> to stretch it to paper-thin-ness), or what.
> 
> Try again?
> Gary

Now your know why I'm not a full time writer.  ;^)

I mean to say, stretch it slowly and gently, letting it relax between
stretches.  Act like you are stretching out a pizza crust, but don't 
quit at the thickness of a pizza crust.

I guess squeeze was a poor choice of word.

 
-- 
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: ahall@fmrco.com (Andrew Hall)
Subject: Re: Bread machines
Organization: Fidelity Management & Research Co.
	<1992Aug18.164403.10278@raven.alaska.edu>
	<1992Aug19.083404.14500@amd.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:28:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.083404.14500@amd.com> karen@angelo.amd.com (Karen Black) writes:

   Bread machines come in a variety of sizes and shapes, with prices to
   match.  Here's some of the makes:

   Welbilt
   DAK
   Panasonic/National
   Maxim
   Hitachi
   Zojirushi
   Sanyo

   In general, these fall into three categories:

   Large (1.5 lb) cylindrical loaves (DAK and Welbilt ABM100 are identical)
   Small (1 lb) cylindrical loaves (Welbilt ABM600)
   Small (1 lb) rectangular loaves (all other models)

My National makes a 1.5lb rectangular loaf.  It works very well for yeast breads.
ah
From: kenr@cruise.cc.rochester.edu (Kenneth C. Rich)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: has anyone ever tried feeding a starter with corn flour?
Summary: yes
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:40:57 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Me of (Rochester, NY)

In article <p93mnnj@lynx.unm.edu> swells@triton.unm.edu (Earth-daughter) writes:
>i was thinking of attempting to make my own starter up here in the
>Jemez Mtns (where many Anasazi used to live), and it occurred to
>me that i might try it with fine blue corn flour.
>shannon tmprb

CORN:
I was just out there with me starter along!  My usual bread both
there and here in upstate NY is 50/50 wholewheat pastry flour and
yellow cornmeal.  Where i was last week all i had was some coarse
white corn meal and it was great.  Blue corn makes a wonderful purple
bread.  Haven't tried a 100% corn bread.  The only small problem i
see with all-corn starter is that it isn't gooey like wheat so it
doesn't catch the bubbles as much and all the descriptions of what a
starter looks like in the FAQs and postings won't be of any use to
you.  Do it!  Navigate by nose.

STORAGE:
Halfway thru my stay in NM i stopped cooking, mixed the remainder of
my cornmeal into the starter to make a moist fluffy mix and left it
sitting in a yogurt fez in a box in a closed car for a week.  It
seems to have survived fine, I'll have the word on whether it
survived in a few days when i get back to cooking, but it smells
divine.  If this works, it might be a better form for transport of
starters since it seems a moist environment would be better for the
survival of lactobacilli.

RYE:
And a note to (wasn't it) Julie out there, I still haven't done the
measuring to give you the rye-corn bread recipe, but since my trip i
have requests for the wheat-corn (basically the same) recipe from
people who might get even if i don't follow thru.  So RSN...
--
-ken rich                  hmmmmm...                  kenr@cc.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: tweaver@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Tim Weaver)
Subject: Pretzels Recipes?
Organization: Kalamazoo College
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:54:36 GMT

I've checked the FAQ's and it's not there.  Does anyone have a sourdough
recipe for soft pretzel's?  Failing that, any pretzel recipe will do.
-- 
|Timothy E. Weaver           | Kalamazoo College  |  (616) 383-5656        |
|Database Programmer/Analyst | 1200 Academy       | These are MY opinions! |
|email:  tweaver@kzoo.edu    | Kalamazoo MI 49006 | Mine!!  Mine!!  Mine!! |
+----------------------------+--------------------+------------------------+
From: dancer@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Starter giveaway
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:16:03 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

Hello again,

   Well, I remembered that I have the Goldrush starter, not a San Fransico..

On the otherhand, I have more than enough for any and all who want it.

I'll be drying it soon (I was out of town this last weekend and have been
really busy this week) and I will fill any requests that include a SASE(self
addressed stamped envelope) and a ziploc type baggie.

If you want a starter, please send email to me. Thanks.

---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---
Dream Dancer                               dancer@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
aka                                        dancer@acm.rpi.edu
Martha Underwood                             Four cats and a
                                             burmese python