From: grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Has Denis Seen the Light or is he just passing gas?  Re: Tom Gray who is ra*
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:17:42 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <BttMu3.MGr@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
|In article <12707@grayt> grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray) writes:
|>In article <BtLD6z.454@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
|>>The day tom gray will accept the fact he is racist, maybe I will
|>>answer to his racist postings.
|
|Tom emailed me that he "must be racist".  So, I can answer.

No I didn't Denis - fantasy number 1.

|
|>After the Act of Union, the British attempted to exclude the
|>Frecnh Canadian from the government and to denationalize the
|>Frecnh culture. This attempt was rejected by politicians
|>of both cultures in Canada who forced the UK to accept
|>French Reformers in the government. The followed this
|>with the practice of the double majority and control
|>of cultural matters by the members from the affected
|>cultural group.
|>
|>Now Denis - does this sound like domination or the
|>cooperation of practical people who know that they
|>have to find ways in which two intermingled cultures
|>can live together?
|
|Your question is not as clear as you thought.
|Primo, it is not because in one aspect, there seemed to be cooperation
|that there was cooperation in all domains.  The fact that 30 years ago,
|before law 101, a francophone could not have an executive job because
|he was francophone (in some anglo companies) is domination by anglophones
|and is not related at all to what the parliament does or doesn't.
|
Do you see all relationships in this sad way?
How does this answer the question?

|Segundo, in the period 1840-1867, the Canada had many problems in working
|because the anglos were divided and the francos were not.  The francos
|were more monolithic.  While this is not per se domination, it is not
|either cooperation.
|
French and English politicians cooperated to form governments. Governments'
were required to have the confidence (support) of both cultural groups.
Fantasy number 2 - although it is so jumbled that I cannot determine
exactly what it is.

|Tercie, intermingled cultures means cultures that mix together. (webster)
|I don't think that our cultures are intermixed.  They have some effect
|one each other, but this is not at all intermix.

Do you see all relationships in this sad way?
Fantasy number 3.

|
|Finally, our cultures are not living together.  Ever heard about two solitudes?
|Our cultures are existing in close spaces.  A theater may display the
|english and french versions of a movie.  A TV antenna may transmit many
|signals both in french and english (this is done in Montreal and probably
|Toronto), but this is not the same thing as two cultures living together.
|This is resource sharing.

Do you see all relationships in such a sad way?

|
|>
|>Now is that not a direct question?
|Is that a direct answer?

No Denis it was not a direct answer. It was however a reflection of
the sad way that people like you view human relationships.
I gave you an example of cooperation between the two cultural
groups. You didn't answer it (probabably because your history
although you exalt in your knowledge of it, is not aware
of it).

|
|>
|>Denis - Denis - was the fact, the vote that did not take place in
|>favour of Confederation when in fact it did. Was the fact that Confederation
|>received support from what was to become Quebec when you claimed that
|>this was just an Anglo plot?
|
|I did not claim it was an Anglo plot (your invention, indeed).
|I just said that Quebec had no legal existence in 1865 and therefore,
|it was not Quebec, but deputies of Quebec, that voted.
|>

You keep changing your stories here Denis.
First there was no vote - an anglo plot (fantasy a)
then it is revealed that the vote had taken place in the
legislature and had passed with no significant opposition to
Confederation expressed.

You counter that this was na anglo plot with a stacked
legislature. (fnatasy b)
It is shown that the Confederation idea was strongly influenced
by French speaking members and was seen by them as a means
of protecting their culture.

You counter that this was an anglo-plot since even though
Quebec had been created by Confederation at the insistence
of French speaking politicians as a political entity for their culture,
it was all an anglo-plot since the french speaking members who
had created Quebec did not immediatly vote to dissolve it.
(fantasy c)

You keep changing your claims about how everything is an 
anglo-plot - don't you Denis

|>Is this satement self-referential? I cannot see how it applies to me.
|>I just asked a question about the historic cooperation between the
|>French and English cultures in the legislature of the United
|>Canadas (1840-50) and I am accused of eleiminating historical data.
|
|It is not me who said you eliminated data.  Perhaps some email you

Another fantasy - of course you did in your own words.

|received?  But not from me.  EH, WAIT A MINUTE!!! WHO'S USING MY KEYBOARD ;^)
|Oups.  I'm alone.  So, either you misread some signature or someone is
|strong enough (not need to be very strong indeed, just remember Mutlu
|who was using a dummy address in his signature) to use my mailing address.
|
|>Before 1976 (Louis St. Laurent, Wilfred Laurier, creation of
|>the Official Languages Act,  creation of Hydro Quebec,
|>recognition of right of residents of Quebec to control
|>their culture .....)
|
|Before 1976, between a good bilingual francophone and a incompetent
|unilingual anglophone, many companies selected the anglophone.
|
|>Denis - whatever happened to the Quiet Revolution. You
|>Trudeau, Pelletier, Marchand and the like. You know the
|>people who really defeated Duplessis. Do you forget them
|>because they were not afraid of the Anglo but could
|>work with their fellow citizens and respect their culture.
|
|PLEASE RETURN TO YOUR BOOK!  Duplessis was in Quebec.  He died while being
|Premier of Quebec.  The Quiet Revolution is by Jean Lesage.
|Trudeau et al were really not involved in that.  Moreover, the Quiet
|Revolution begun in 1960.  Trudeau et al were elected years after that.

Denis - read your history- The Asbestos strike occurred in the late
1940's. It was Trudeau who was leading politician advising the
strikers.

|MOreover, Trudeau is an anglo!  His mother was an anglophone (Grace Eliot)

I've already answered this but it is so sad and revealing, I'll let it
stand again.

|and he speaks french with a France accent, indicating that he did not
|learn French in Montreal!  The same way, Mulroney is an anglophone (he
|has a strange accent and I read somewhere that he spoke hardly French
|when he begun his lawyer career).
|
|>
|>Denis- by 1976 the Quiet Revolution had been long won.
|>There was universal education in Quebec and a federal
|>government controlled by the people who had created the
|>Quiet Revolution. Why do you think 1976 is significant.
|
|You missed something ;^] 

No Denis - sadly it is people like you who always miss the real
point.

-- 
i.sinature
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada