From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Joys of Dice
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:00:32 GMT
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Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
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In-reply-to: cscott+@CS.CMU.EDU's message of 13 Aug 92 20:42:01 GMT
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>>>>> "CS" == Curtis Scott <cscott> writes: [pardon my edits; this is
>>>>> getting long]

CS> My question is this: Wouldn't roleplaying a scene like that in so much
CS> time.

[I (Rat) replied]
|> Not really, no. Diceless combats tend to run much faster in real time
|> than diced combats do (with the exception of nuking the site from orbit

CS> How is this possible? Is it because you don't pay the "overhead" costs
CS> of dice rolls and interaction ("What's your sword skill?", "Roll your
CS> damage," "What's your armor class?")? Or is it because (as you indicate
CS> below) you abstract combat down to choice scenes?

A combination of both, actually.

CS> Based on the above (which was written by an admitted non-diceless
CS> player), I would expect diceless RPGs to go in cycles of interaction.
[and get boring for inactive players]

|> Not if the story is kept interesting to the "inactive" players. But
|> again, this is a GM problem, not a "system" problem.

CS> This makes a strong implication about the relative ability required to
CS> GM a "diced" and "non-diced" combat. I can put up with an uninspired GM
CS> in a diced game running a combat because he can usually put enough
CS> color in to keep me awake and at the same time I've got something to
CS> fiddle with (dice).  From your statement, I would think that a GM would
CS> have to be significantly above average to make every moment
CS> entertaining.

Yes.

CS> You get an analogous effect in dice-based games when you have too many
CS> players, or when the combat system is too complex (where "too complex"
CS> is a function of how skilled the GM and players are in the system, not
CS> an arbitrary standard). However, without the (admittedly artificial)
CS> structure of the "round," have diceless GMs encountered this problem?
CS> How many players have you had when you did?

|> It's a trade off; keeping everyone active almost constantly vs. resolving
|> each individual's encounter quickly. Within Amber, if the PCs encounter a
|> group and a fight ensues, the opposing party will tend to be either all
|> "grunts," or the opposition is grunts lead by a powerful enemy. [...]

CS> I have two pictures of combats, based on the above. The first is an
CS> unequal combat (say, for example, the Warriors Three from Marvel vs. a
CS> group of lower-level types). [Volstaag smashing a mob in 6 panels]

CS> The second is a long slow fight (for example, the end of Ben Hur).
CS> [...] The hero is doing something truly amazing, and defeating the
CS> great nemesis.

CS> I will confess that diced RPG combats have never felt like either of
CS> those, much though I would want them to. Have I got a correct image of
CS> the goal (if not the reality) of diceless combat?

Perfectly.

--Rat

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