HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ahollander@dcs.simpact.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Variable Systems
Date: 9 Sep 92 12:52:39 PDT
Organization: Simpact Associates, San Diego CA

In article <laqm1vINN4kc@cypress.cs.utexas.edu>, varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel) writes:
> In article <18jg1lINNl8b@agate.berkeley.edu> jaffray@zippy.sonoma.edu writes:
> 
>>It seems absurd to play a one-way big club when vulnerable against not,
>>because of interference from opps and less gains from light openings,  
>>but I haven't seen any Precision pairs which drop their system at that
>>vulnerability.  Is this just disinclination to have to play two distinct
>>system, or do the big clubbers out there really think they still show
>>a gain when red on white?
> 
> Goldman and Soloway were using a club system NV and Eastern (possibly 
> Aces) Scientific Vul, last I heard.
> 
> Rosenkranz (possibly the world's strongest client) uses Romex Vul and
> a club system NV at matchpoints and club system only at favorable at
> IMPs.  Barry Malcolm (BAM) and I do something like that on OKBridge.
 
Forrester (?sp) - Lodge of England were playing different cards according 
to vulnerability.  I believe the options were Weak Opening System nonvul 
and Big Club vul.  I'm way behind on reading the English publications (3+ 
years)  so this may no longer be true.  

Tony Sowter had published an article that described a system that had 3 
ranges for an opening 1NT: equal, unfavorable (vul vs nvul) and green (nvul 
vs vul - aka favorable)

There is alot to be said for adjustments because of conditions of contest 
(matchpoints, bam, long imp matches, short imp matches, rubber), 
vulnerability (using Sowter's approach or the vul vs not simplification), 
and position (expectations HAVE changed if partner has passed, also if one 
or both opponents have passed).

> Being a bit of a bidding complexity junkie, my reason for wanting to
> do that is that I know both systems, so why not?  Now if I could just
> learn to count every time on defense ...
> 
> -- Don Varvel (varvel@cs.utexas.edu)

Back in the carefree days (mid-70's) my partner and I did alot of 
experimentation with systems.  The friday night game was an anything goes
matchpoint game (prime directive was to have FUN).  A few times we did the 
following (totally illegal in the ACBL) 

	If I opened the bidding we played my card.
	If he opened the bidding we played his card.
	Otherwise we played the OPPONENT'S card!!

Total lunacy!!! I wish that game still existed!!!!!!!!

Al
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: zhang@me.utoronto.ca (Xiaodong Zhang)
Subject: Re: Bid these hands
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:43:00 GMT

likes@moose.cs.indiana.edu (Kevin Likes) writes:

>The following hands came up in a local duplicate game last week.  I am
>interested in seeing how people think they should be bid.  Please feel free to
>use your favorite system.  (I am especially interested to see a Romex auction,
>if anyone can come up with one.)

>Matchpoints
>Vulnerable vs. Not
>Dealer East

>  N
>-----
>S KTxx
>H A
>D AJx
>C QTxxx

>  S
>-----
>S (void)
>H KQJ987
>D KQxxx
>C AK

>Hypothetical question:  If west were to open 2S, how should things proceed?
>(In reality, West was the dealer and opened at one table, after missorting
>his hand.  From what I understand, many Norths decided not to open (!), which
>is why I state the problem with East as dealer.)

>Thanks in advance,

>Kevin Likes
>Bridge Neophyte (but learning)


A precision bidding would be(if east pass and no int.):

 S  W  N   E
           -
1c! -  2c  -
3h! -  5d! -
7h  -  -   -

1c=16+hcp
3h=Ace asking bid
5d=Ace of D and a key card in H



Xiaodong Zhang

)
From: elpwestg@nuscc.nus.sg (West)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Bridge Games for IBM PC
Date: 7 Sep 92 03:10:10 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore

<GUF@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
: As a new bridge player, I am considering purchasing either "Grand
: Slam Bridge" from Electronic Arts, or "Omar Sharif on Bridge" from
: Interplay.  I would appreciate any commentary on either of these
: two programs; or any other discussion of alternatives for the IBM.
: Thanks.  Send to Gil Gall (guf@psuvm.psu.edu).
I've used "Grand Slam Bridge" for a couple of years and it's adequate
but don't expect any frills. The really good feature it has is that you
can create your own hands by specifying which cards go where. I've
entered about thirty hands that emphasize squeezes - it's very
instructive to see how the squeezes work and it's much easier than using
an actual deck of cards. I have heard that the "Omar Sharif on Bridge"
is not particularly good, but I can recommend another program - "Bridge
World". It has an excellent feature that allows you to use a flow chart
that explains various bidding and playing situations.
From: zilch@apples.Eng.Sun.COM (John Hoffman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Bridge-O-Matic moves West
Date: 9 Sep 1992 01:48:31 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: zilch@apples.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: apples

The complete hand, for the morbidly curious:

Board 22  East deals EW vul

        North
        S- K73
        H- AKT7
        D- AKT4
        C- KQ
West               East
S- J               S- QT9864
H- 952             H- 64
D- QJ85            D- 972
C- J9842           C- T6
        South
        S- A52
        H- QJ83
        D- 63
        C- A753


Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: mikeehli@cie.uoregon.edu (Mike Ehli)
Subject: Re: Need some help
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 01:43:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.010044.8566@msc.cornell.edu> ding@msc.cornell.edu (Gary Ding) writes:
>
>	First of all, let me say that obridge is a great program
>and I am a happy user and there are quite a few good players in the net,
>including several that played on an okbridge team with me with fairly
>respectable results at happier times when there were formally
>organized weekly matches.  However, the quality of a match in a
>random drawing of players is so unpredictable that it really gets
>annoying when your friendly new partner keeps escaping into NT
>contracts when doubled, even though you never entered a bid, and it is
>really no fun making arrangements with your regular partner Kkm's away, 
>only to sit there and beat up random opponents with ZERO partnership.
>	Matt, could you organize some official weekly matches?
>that would encourage a lot of serious players, including my former
>teammates who are semi-retiring from okbridge for the lack of cutthroat
>competition.
>	 

Speaking as a novice bridge player, I agree that OKBridge is a great
program that I have had a lot of fun with.  But I can fully appreciate
your comments about the unpredictability of the opponents (and partners)
one can get stuck with...(I wonder if koo will ever forgive me for blowing
grand slams on two straight hands due to my bad bidding...  8-/   )
It's hard to be 100% comfortable on a board where I'm the only novice
amongst good players, even if they are fairly forgiving (and most are,
thankfully...much appreciated, gang).
In addition to the weekly matches for the serious players, maybe there
should be some events for those of us who are less experienced?

--Mike Ehli (mikeehli@cie.uoregon.edu), aka Tholian on okbridge

Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: bjpt@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Ben Thompson)
Subject: Re: WC Problem - Full Hand
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 06:01:38 GMT

desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins) writes:

>   Pr(-1) + ... + Pr(-10) < 5 Pr(-1) + 5 Pr(-2) = 5 (Pr(-1) + Pr(-2)).

I won't requote the whole lot - just the relevant line.

Now THAT I find a convincing argument.  So - I was wrong (you can
all pick yourselves up off the floor now :-).

Or, at least ....

In the actual event (although he didn't know it), the extra undertrick at
3NT was only worth 1 imp, because the Icelanders had bid (and made) the
superior 5C contract.

So since Pr(-1) + ... + Pr(-10) > Pr(-1) (and presumably, quite a bit
greater - certainly in my experience it is!), Line 2 would in fact have
been "more likely to win the match" than Line 1 (although the final
margin was more than 10, so it wouldn't have).

Of course you can't KNOW what your opponents are doing at the other
table.  We could assign some notional probability to a few likely
events (in this case, bidding 3NT and bidding 5C).  We could also
get some empirical values for Pr(-x).  And figure out how often your
opponents would have to be in 5C before you should take Line 2.

It really seems to be a too-close-to-call situation (in which case
psychological factors are the ones that count - oh no, not that
can of worms - forget I mentioned it :-)

Ben
From: taylor@logan.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Did I do the right thing?
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:50:39 GMT
Organization: TIVOLI Systems, Inc.



W vs. R, MP, You South hold :

Kx
AQ
Q9xxx
10xxx

Bidding proceeds :

N      E       S       W
1C     1D      P       P
D      P       P       P

I lead a trump for +200, however,
leading a trump allowed declarer 1 trick more than
what was necessary.  No ruffs were available in dummy.
Bad bid or bad lead?
From: davidm@voltaire.Rational.COM (David Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Bid these hands
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:02:07 GMT

varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel) writes:

>Interestingly, with North as dealer the auction hits a gray area
>of 4th suit forcing.  What is the difference between 1C-1H;
>1S-2D; 2NT-3D and 1C-1H; 1S-3D?  Are both forcing?  Do both show
>diamonds?

The 4th suit force with a 5-bagger is unusual in itself. I would play
the first sequence as showing the  6-5 hand while I would expect the
3D jump to be a cue bid in support of spades, showing 4-4 (or longer)
in the majors. As a general rule, when nx is game forcing, I play (n+1)x as
a cue (or a splinter if at the 4 level). 
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Steve Myerson)
Subject: Re: Least of evils
Keywords: Your guess is as good as mine.
Organization: Raytheon Company, Portsmouth, RI
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:16:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.92329.13024@ms.uky.edu> Joel D Haywood writes:

* Favorable at pairs, you have  xxx xxx xxx AKQx.
* 
* The auction has gone
* 
* You   LHO   Part   RHO
* Pass  Pass  1C     1H
* 
* What is your call?
* You are playing negative doubles and are not playing inverted minors in
* competition.

You don't have 4 spades, so forget the negative double.
You also don't have a limit raise, so forget the inverted minor limit raise.
You don't have ruffing values. You have a single raise. I would just bid 2C.

Steve Myerson (sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com)
From: taylor@foraker.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Beginner's question: what do you bid?
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:21:49 GMT
Organization: TIVOLI Systems, Inc.

In article <ARNDT.92Sep7092121@kirsch.c3consult.comm.se>, arndt@c3consult.comm.se (Arndt Jonasson) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> In a recent matchpoint event, the following hand turned up:
|> 
|> (S dealer, none vul)
|> 
|> 
|>           KJT765
|>           J7
|>           842
|>           83
|> AQ98                32
|> -                   AQ62
|> T93                 AKJ7
|> QJT972              AK4
|>           4
|>           KT98543
|>           Q65
|>           65
|> 
|> 
|> I was E, and the bidding goes:
|> 
|> S   pass
|> W   1C		(usually shows 13-21 hcp and at least 4 clubs)
|> N   2S		(I would have bid 1S - I didn't ask why he bid 2)
|> E   ?
|> 
|> As E, what would you bid here, and which contract would you land in finally?
|> 
|> I bid 3S, in order to show strength, and make my partner tell me more
|> about her hand. We don't have an agreement on this situation, and I thought
|> she might not take out a double. What do you have "double" mean here?
|> 
|> [Since people here make such a point of it: We don't have an agreement
|> on what to do in this situation, otherwise I would have trusted
|> partner to remember our agreement. So "trust your partner" doesn't
|> arise.]

West's hand falls way short of an opening bid except if you have
an explicit agreement about "light" openings.  Bidding your voids
is not usually a good thing to do until you have more information
from partner.

Most people would use a negative double after 2S.
What ever partner's response, you can cue-bid to show strength.
3S immediately is too ambiguous.  (Should it show a spade stopper?
Should it show excellent support for clubs?   What is you overall
pattern?)
The genernal rule is to show shape first (if it is a forcing bid) and
show strength later.   It is always easier to play catchup on strength.
Playing catchup on distribution is harder when the opponents preempt
further.

With the East cards, I would push on to an eventual 6C after
partner eventually shows a spade control.  You can make it as
long as the opps do not lead clubs.
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: willner@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Law problem
Date: 12 Sep 92 18:16:20 GMT
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA

From article <1992Sep8.233817.28925@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>, by
rainbow@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Rob Buchner): 
> your obligation as dummy before the opening lead is one of two things,
> tell the opponents what you thought your agreement/system was (ie partner
> misbid/misalerted), or indicate you just plain forgot and misbid the hand.

The second is completely wrong.  Remember the general principle that
opponents are entitled to a _full explanation_ of partnership
agreements but to _no_ information about the actual hands.

If your partner gives the opponents misinformation, you _must_ offer
a correction after the hand is played.  It is to your advantage to
offer a correction earlier _if_ you can do so without giving partner
unauthorized information.  In practice, this means at the end of the
auction if your side declares, but if your side defends, you have to
wait until the end of the hand.

If partner gives a correct explanation that does not match your hand
(i.e., you have misbid or psyched), you are under no obligation to -
indeed must not - offer any "correction."  Just remember that all of
partner's explanations, correct or otherwise, are unauthorized
information for you.

-- 
Steve Willner            Phone 617-495-7123         Bitnet:   willner@cfa
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA                 Internet: willner@cfa.harvard.edu
  member, League for Programming Freedom; contact league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: brl@kopasker.is (Bjorgvin Runar Leifsson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Bidding
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:54:04 GMT
Distribution: rec.games.bridge
Organization: Primary School of Kopasker, Iceland

germain%sanctum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (H. James de St. Germain) writes:

>My partner and I who are new to bridge were practicing on the following hand

>South
>Clubs  A K 10 6 5 3 
>Diam   A K J
>Hearts 9 6 4
>Spades 5

>North
>Clubs  8 4
>Diam   9 6
>Hearts A K 5
>Spades A K 10 9 7 6

>Could some one bid this one through for us?

No, not with this information.  First, who is the dealer?  Second, which
system?  Any system I like?

Also, it is better to put the north hand at the top and, of course, reverse
the suits:
Sp
He
Dm
Cl

So please post the hand again and I'm sure you'll get many good answers and
even a few bad (like this one, perhaps :-)

Bjorgvin R. Leifsson
brl@kopasker.is
From: asya@ux5.lbl.gov (Asya Kamsky)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Vugraph for the Novato Individual
Date: 15 Sep 1992 21:23:43 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Reply-To: asya@ux5.lbl.gov (Asya Kamsky)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ux5.lbl.gov

I've received lots of responsed from people who would like to watch
the Bridge Today All-Star individual.  Now my problem is to set it
up.  I need a laptop which I can probably get, and a person to enter
the play in as it happens.  That I'm a bit stumped for.  I have a
caddie for picking up score slips and such, but I really need someone
who's computer literate and is either familiar with OKbridge or can
learn really quickly.

When: Mon Sept 21st, 12:30 - 4:30 Pacific time
      Tue Sept 22nd, 12:30 - 4:00 and 7:00 - 9:00 PDT

Benefits: you'll get to see in person some of the greatest players ever.
Players will include:  Zia, Hamman, Wolff, Kantar, Sontag, Glubok, Woolsey
Stansby, Martel, Lawrence, and 10 other world/National champions.
To come and kibitz, it would cost you $20.00 (this is a charity event)

So if you would like to help out, or know someone who can, please let 
me know ASAP.

By the way, Monday night is a Pro-Am tournament where you can either play
with an expert of your choice for a $400.00 donation, or for $25.00 entry
fee play with your partner against the abovementioned experts.
-- 
"In nature there are no rewards or punishments, only consequences"

Asya Kamsky	      e-mail: asya@ux5.lbl.gov                   Go Red Sox
"In order to command you must first learn to submit" - chinese fortune cookie
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: ted@heawk1.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ted Ying)
Subject: Re: Please, Human Readable Files Only
Organization: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Distribution: rec.games.bridge
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:11:25 GMT

svp11@ccc.amdahl.com (Mughith Adham) writes:

>To all users:
>Please, can you only post human readable files on this
>newsgroup. Thank you.
>
	I don't think this is appropriate.  I personally didn't download
	and print out the daily bulletins from Italy, but I really
	appreciated the fact that someone took the time to post them.
	If I had wanted to read the daily bulletins, I had them available,
	by just saving them and printing them out on my postscript
	printer.

	Since those files are pertinent to bridge, I think they should
	have been posted here.  Many thanks to the person who took the
	time and effort to save and post all those bulletins!

	Ted Ying			ted@rosserv.gsfc.nasa.gov
	Hughes/STX			Goddard Space Flight Center
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: taylor@logan.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: PSP #20.6
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:32:45 GMT
Organization: TIVOLI Systems, Inc.

|> AK2
|> A93
|> J8
|> AK862

I count this as an unflawed 20 pt hand (extra point for club),
and would open it 2N.  What about others?
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Date: Sunday, 13 Sep 1992 15:51:15 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: bidding
 <1992Sep13.133525.21623@galois.mit.edu>

well, if you hope that that was not serious, i'm sorry, but i must dash your
hopes.  i think that bridge would be much cooler if people were competing
against each other in making the most artificial, confusing, and yet useful
bidding systems.  and trying to figure out what the other team's bids mean.
From: varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Defense against defense against Precision 1 club
Date: 8 Sep 1992 20:49:51 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: cypress.cs.utexas.edu

In article <18jg1lINNl8b@agate.berkeley.edu> jaffray@zippy.sonoma.edu writes:

>It seems absurd to play a one-way big club when vulnerable against not,
>because of interference from opps and less gains from light openings,  
>but I haven't seen any Precision pairs which drop their system at that
>vulnerability.  Is this just disinclination to have to play two distinct
>system, or do the big clubbers out there really think they still show
>a gain when red on white?

Goldman and Soloway were using a club system NV and Eastern (possibly 
Aces) Scientific Vul, last I heard.

Rosenkranz (possibly the world's strongest client) uses Romex Vul and
a club system NV at matchpoints and club system only at favorable at
IMPs.  Barry Malcolm (BAM) and I do something like that on OKBridge.

Being a bit of a bidding complexity junkie, my reason for wanting to
do that is that I know both systems, so why not?  Now if I could just
learn to count every time on defense ...

-- Don Varvel (varvel@cs.utexas.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: pynq@quads.uchicago.edu (George Jetson)
Subject: Re: bidding
Keywords: system, agreement, theory, bidding
Reply-To: pynq@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: D. J. Dougherty & Associates
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:16:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.133525.21623@galois.mit.edu> maboyiny@ccvax.as.edu.tw (Dr. Weird) writes:
>In article <92256.162844RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu writes:
>>i think that bridge would be a much more interesting game if you weren't
>>required to tell your opponents what your bids mean.
>
>I dunno--- I might find that enjoyable, but I suspect that playing against
>me would not be, whether you or anyone here on the net.....
>
>I mean, I hope this is NOT serious.
>
>

This was essentially what S. J. Simon argues in his book.  That the game
would be more fun without any regulations.  In particular, he argues
that he would love to have his opps uses whatever signals they like - he
would be more likely to benefit than they would.

BTW, in bridge, as in the real world, the laws are designed to protect
the weak.  That is, it is clear that without laws, everybody would be
better off, but position of the strong would be improved much more than
would the positions of the weak.  So it is in the interest of the weak
to accept the laws.

Unfortunately, of course, as time goes by, the laws always end up being
used primarily by the strong, for their own benefit.

It's a funny thing, isn't it?

	- What newsgroup is this, anyway? -

************************************************************************
A note to new readers:  the weasely :-) symbol is frowned upon in this
group.  Any questions, see Phil Gustafson who will gladly rearrange your
diodes for you.
			- From the AFU FAQ -

	- pynq@quads.uchicago.edu, who is still costing the net
	  hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, every time he posts -
************************************************************************
From: woods@colossal.Eng.Sun.COM (Don Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Bid this one for me
Date: 5 Sep 1992 01:53:38 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: colossal

Matthew Merzbacher writes:
| >>> N:	A K Q J 9 6 5 3 2
| >>> 	4
| >>> 	J 9
| >>> 	4
| 
| >If not, has anyone considered 3NT(gambling).  Most people play that
| >this shows a solid minor, but I just play that it shows a solid suit.
| >(Maybe I've been playing to much matchpoints).
| 
| In 3NT you can go down 9.  Even if partner has an ace.  What's the phrase?
| "Unbridled Optimism"
| 
| 3NT is *not* a good contract, no matter what partner's hand is.

I thought bridge was a partnership game.  ANY time you open a "Gambling 3NT"
you're risking down a zillion, but the theory is that partner will pull you
out of it if he doesn't have the stoppers.  (And he always knows if he has
the right stoppers, since if he has three stoppers the fourth suit has to be
your long one.)  I too play gambling 3NT on any solid suit, though usually
it's a 7- or 8-bagger.  Even on the hand shown, at least 3NT has the
advantage that it shows the solidity of the spades, if not the length,
whereas a 4S opener shows (more of) the length but not the solidity.
Which is more important?  To let partner know you have more than 7 spades,
or to let him know your spades will run at least 7 tricks?

On the actual hand, partner can go to 7NT over 3NT.  He knows your suit is
spades, he has a spade to lead to you, and he has 6 top tricks opposite your
promised 7.  But if partner only has 4-5 top tricks it gets harder; I don't
see a good way for him to find out your true spade length, and I don't see
a good way for you to find out his quick tricks.  E.g., if he has 5 toppers
and bids 6NT, you can't convert to 7NT because you don't know if he's doing
it on 5 top tricks or on AK, AK, KQ.
--
--	-- Don Woods.				[*** Generic Disclaimer ***]
--				    ...!sun!woods.eng -or- Woods@Eng.Sun.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria