HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Self Appreciation (was: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?)
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:24:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Nov14.033550.17735@adobe.com> kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall) writes:
>In article <1992Nov13.101621.27144@microsoft.com> jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes:
>>
>>Actually, Daniel, at the moment I am aware of PAIN in my shoulders
>>from my bra straps holding up my (^&**%&(^*(%^F&*%&( LARGE BREASTS.
>>Not to mention the PAIN in my upper back, also from the &*^&(&*( things.
>>AndAnd I am often self-concious of the things because they're so damn
>>big and bulky and in the way. This is at the end of a long day wearing
>>a bra that doesn't quite fit right - I'm in an 'in-between' week (my
>>bra size varies from 40 to 42 depending on how I've been eating and
>>excercising, and my cup size varies from DD to DDD depending on my
>>menstual cycle, and I hate to shop for bras anyway). I find breast
.................
>>Sigh. Why did I pop in with this? Oh, yes. Most women are unhappy
>>about their bodies; often it seems to be a "grass is always greener"
>>situation. While my breasts fit my junoesque figure and 5'9" frame, 
>>they're also (to me) a pain. I envy my friend Betsy, who is 5'0", slightly
>>curvy, and around a size 6 - not because I think thin is better,
>>but because I've never been the 'small, petite, girly'-type. Betsy,
>>who has been that size all her life, would rather have more curves
>>and more height so she'll look like 'an adult woman' rather than
>>'a 14-year-old'.
>
> It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that, if I
> were to wear a bra, I'd have to shop in the teen section.

Still another problem, if you've done a lot of sports a regular bra
is too small to fit around your back and the ones they sell in fat
ladies stores have cups that you can't fill.
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us
Subject: Re: Self Appreciation (was: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?)
Organization: Wendy's World
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 18:01:17 GMT

Celeste (celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov) wrote:
> In article <1992Nov18.215150.5881@ads.com>, charleen@ADS.COM (Charleen
> Bunjiovianna) wrote:
> > 
> > In article <1992Nov18.153348.6594@mr.med.ge.com> wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us writes:
> > >
> > >I will say this. You are looking at this from one side only. I am starting
> > >to see it from the other side. Whether you believe it or not, women are 
> > >looked down upon in this society. Very few men treat them as equals. 
> > 
> > This is at least the third time you've stated this as fact, and I can
> > no longer ignore it.  Your whole premise, quite simply, is suspect.
> > 

					 [...]
> It may simply not be a truth that you have found.
> 
> Love and hugs,
> 
> Celeste

Thank you Celeste,

You've said what I was trying to express. Thanks.

Wendy
From: dpaxton@ut-emx.uucp (Debi Paxton)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: More Women Than Men Prefer to be Alone
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:15:54 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas

In article <BD.92Nov12092048@fluent.UUCP> bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU writes:
>foy@aero.org (Richard Foy) writes:
>>A news item this morning said that 20% of married men preferred to be home
>(I forget the details, but the study dealt with senior citizens who had
>been married to their partners for a long time), when the woman dies
>the man often dies within a year (the change in average lifespan was
>statistically significant), but when the man dies it has no effect
>(statistically) on the death rate of the women - they live to their
>natural age.
>I just assume that studies like this show that men care more about 
>women than women care about men.  Like most such generalities,
>it's probably false, but that's the way it seems sometimes.  8-)


Care more about?  I interpret it just the opposite way--that women
are far more likely to devote themselves to taking care of their
husbands than vice versa.  When his caretaker is gone, an elderly
man may have neither the resources nor the desire to take care of
himself.  However, many older women actually become rejuvenated
when they no longer have to put someone else's needs and wants
ahead of their own.  

At least, that's how it has worked in *my* family.


-- 
"Never imitate consciously, but do not worry about being an imitator;
take pains instead to admire what is good."

Debi Paxton                             		dpaxton@emx.utexas.edu
From: hwatters@armltd.uucp (Helen Watters)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Back Again To Father
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:44:49 GMT
Organization: Advanced RISC Machines Ltd

Will Steeves posted.
>First of all, I don't think that the wife should be required to tell *anything*
>to anyone.  I have already stated that counsellors and/or doctors would make a
>better judge of a given situation. 

SARCASM MODE ON
It is so nice to know there are still men out there, who believe
I MUST be protected from the big wide world.  Some higher
authority, preferablely male, should decide what is best for
me, as I, a mere woman, am incapable of deciding that for myself.
This paternalistic attitude, makes my weak fluttering heart 
beat stonger. 
SARCASM MODE OFF

I am the one living my life and I don't want someone else making 
MY decisions for me.
Just so it is clear for you I will repeat that:-
I am the one living my life and I don't want someone else making 
MY decisions for me.

and to salve his consience, he then writes
>   since a woman could hypothetically become pregnant through an affair, 
>  then tell the doctor "I was raped by a stranger" in order to avoid 
>  the husband finding out about it).

1) I don't feel it is constructive to lie to a doctor.
and
2) The doctor would then probably point out that a woman could catch some nasty 
   diseases off a rapist and would she like some tests/counselling etc.

The doctor most women would go to, in this hypothetical situation, is the 
one that would give them complete confidentiality.

You can't legislate for truth justice love etc. in a relationship.
Some people you form relationships with are wonderful and some aren't.
Only bitter experience allows you to find out which is which.

Helen
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: greg.grainger@rose.com (greg grainger)
Subject: Re: Beards vs. Make-u
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:33:04 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 11-23-92 18:21
On Nov. 22, xenon@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu wrote:

XE>re: Recent episode of Star Trek where Dr. Beverly Crusher says that beards ar
XE>an "affectation" comparable to the wearing of makeup by women.

[ . . . ]

XE>I think the one similarity between beards and makeup is that each of these
XE>things is more popular with the sex that wears it than with the opposite sex,
XE>but I'd be willing to bet that there are a lot more men who don't like makeup
XE>than there are women who don't like beards... ;)

Put me down on the list! As a general rule, I have always thought that
women looked better without makup.

                                                Cheers,
                                                Greg.

Greg Grainger
Toronto, Ontario.
greg.grainger@rose.com
5:55:05 pm, Mon 11-23-1992.

        Personal policy statement: Neither flames nor flame-bait
        will be responded to.
---
   OLX 2.2   Honest Politician: One who stays bought.
   RM 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Xref: sparky soc.women:19662 soc.men:19360
From: slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:05:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame

In article <1992Nov12.233356.26787@tellab5.tellabs.com> chrz@tellabs.com (Peter Chrzanowski) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.144852.9664@news.nd.edu>, slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen) writes:
>> I've heard it said that Abraham Lincoln could not be elected president 
>> today because he was just too darned ugly.  I've heard it said that 
>> Franklin Roosevelt could not be elected president today because he would 
>> appear weak and unhealthy on his crutches or in his wheelchair.  
>
>This is straying from the subject, but while I've heard the same things,
>the fact is nobody really knows. 
>
>If you look at old photographs or televised newsreels of FDR you'll
>hardly ever see the wheelchair.  You'll see him speaking at a podium,
>and there's no way of telling from the picture that he's not standing
>behind it.
>
>I agree that visuals are very important in politics, but many candidates
>have successfully controlled the media's presentation of them, just
>as FDR was able to keep pictures of the wheelchair out of the media
>in his time.  Nixon and Reagan were both masters at presenting only
>what they wished to present to the public.  In this last election,
>Perot bought 17% of the vote even though his looks are, shall
>we say, homely.
>
>  If looks are that important, HEEEEEEERE COMES DANNY!
>

Fodder for my nightmares!

About FDR, he was able to successfully hide his condition because the 
visual news media was still in its infancy.  Most of the events 
depicted in the newsreels were staged and FDR used radio as his 
most potent communication tool.  Given today's wall-to-wall television 
coverage of our leaders, such a huge physical flaw as the effects of 
FDR's polio could not be concealed.  In fact, just as the media harped 
on Paul Tsonga's cancer and Pres. Bush's general health, they would never 
ease the focus on a candidate's disability.

Nixon learned the hard way that political survival depended on media images 
through the 1960 debates with Kennedy.  Reagan was a professional actor.  
Even Perot, although not conventionally handsome, understood that playing 
a role mirroring a classic American icon (the folksy, down-home 
philosopher ala Will Rogers) could work to his political benefit. 

What I fear is a time in which our general view of human appearance becomes 
so narrow and our political process becomes so dependent on sound bites, 
that a good-looking nut case could gain a position of political or 
economic power.  I was heartened this year, though, when the voting public 
showed not only the candidates, but the mass media as well, that they were 
starved for in-depth discussion of the issues.  IMO, we will be better 
served by the mass media when we use are power, as consumers and viewers, 
to shape the media in our own image to suit needs as we define them, not 
as a Clinton or Bush or Madison Avenue or Hollywood would define them.  Or us.

Sue Larsen
slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: yorton@turtle11.rtsg.mot.com (James J. Yorton)
Subject: Re: Chippendales et al
Reply-To: yorton@rtsg.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:55:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.225048.13653@latcs1.lat.oz.au>, jem@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Joan McGalliard) writes:
|> 
|> The behaviour of the women in the audience was fairly
|> horrible.  They were shouting, grabbing at the men, playing
|> with them like they were toys.  Even the waiter in a g-string was
|> part of the floor show.  One member of our party said to him
|> "she wants to touch your bottom".  "That's what I am
|> here for," he replied.  I do not think that men at female
|> strip show could have behaved worse (I have heard, indeed,
|> that generally men are polite during such shows).

Men could not have behaved worse.  In many clubs where there
are female strippers, there is also a bodyguard/bouncer in the
nearby vicinity.  If you get too "friendly" or paw at them,
you'll probably get tossed out the door-- or through it.

---
Jim Yorton
Motorola Inc., General Systems Sector
Cellular Infrastructure Group
Arlington Heights, IL
yorton@rtsg.mot.com
Xref: sparky soc.women:19767 alt.feminism:4598 soc.men:19451
From: wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Self Appreciation (was: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?)
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:36:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Nowhere
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Janice Kendall (kendall@adobe.com) wrote:
> In article <1992Nov16.185735.25510@mr.med.ge.com> wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us writes:
> >Rich Payne (payner@netcom.com) wrote:
> >> Since you made a public anouncement, I hope you won't mind my asking why?
> >> (The sex change that is)
> >>  
> >
> >Why???? Because I am a woman. I just happened to get stuck inside of a man's
> >body. While I have surpressed these emotions for many years, and tried to
> >act as a man, I've always known I was female. The internal conflict is almost
> >too much to bear. I doubt that you would understand. Most people don't, although
> >more women seem to then men. 
> >
> >> 
> >> Rich
> >> 
> >
> >Wendy
> 
> Think about what we all experience as real differences between men and women.
> Men and women think, act, react, dream, ... differently.
> 
> Now, each one of you that strongly identifies with being male or female - take
> your current personality and picture it inside the body of the opposite sex.
> It would be damned awkward, confusing, at times humiliating as you would 
> behave in a manner different from the "norm".  Wouldn't you want to get
> back to a body you're comfortable in?
> 
> I don't know about the statistics, but I've not yet heard of somebody 
> changing their sex twice!
> 
> Nature/God tries out endless "variations on a theme" all the time.  I don't
> know why people feel so threatened that someone is born gay or that someone
> feels like a woman trapped inside the body of a man.  Since our society 
> has trouble accepting men who act like women, I think it's fine to use
> the technology we have to allow someone to be consistent in their nature and
> their appearance.
> 
> Take care, Wendy.
>    
>  Janice Kendall    kendall@adobe.com    ...!{decwrl|sun}!adobe!kendall
> 
>       Don't Panic!  Clinton will be our *42*nd President.

Janice,

Thank you so much for this wonderful post. It says what I feel very well.

The pain of being transexual is almost to much to bear. Many Transexual
people kill themselves over the internal conflict. We are branded as crazy
by many who have no idea of how we feel. I have never thought or dreamed
like my male friends. I have had to force myself (with great difficulty) to
act and react like a male. My therapist says the hardest part will be to
drop the male shell I have hidden myself in (so that I could survive as a
male). 

Thanks again, Janice. Your compasion is most appreciated.

Wendy
Newsgroups: soc.women,talk.abortion,talk.politics.misc
From: ndallen@r-node.gts.org (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Planned Parenthood Names New President
Organization: Echo Beach, Toronto
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 08:46:46 GMT

Here is a press release from Planned Parenthood.

 Planned Parenthood Names New President
 To: National Desk
 Contact: Roberta Synal of the Planned Parenthood Federation of
          America, 212-260-4660

   NEW YORK, Nov. 20 -- Pamela J. Maraldo, R.N., Ph.D., 
a nationally recognized leader in healthcare policy, was
named today as president of Planned Parenthood Federation of
America, the world's oldest and largest voluntary reproductive
health care organization.
   The appointment, effective Feb. 1, 1993, culminates an extensive
nationwide search for a successor to Faye Wattleton, who resigned
after 14 years as PPFA president earlier this year.
   Since 1983, Maraldo has headed the National League for Nursing,
a coalition of individual and agency members that promotes quality
health care to the public.  She is a nationally recognized expert in
health care policy, a prolific author and a respected lecturer on
nursing and health care issues.
   "Pamela Maraldo brings to Planned Parenthood the experience,
intelligence, energy, and savvy leadership ability needed to defend
the reproductive rights of women and expand the health-care options
of all Americans well into the next century," said PPFA Chairperson
Jacqueline S. Jackson, Ph.D.
   "I am proud to join Planned Parenthood, an organization that has
long been the standard-bearer for individual liberties and the
freedom to choose whether and when to have children," said Maraldo.
"It is both exhilarating and humbling to be part of the mission of
Margaret Sanger, Alan Guttmacher and Faye Wattleton.  These
visionaries have exemplified the highest standards of courage and
commitment."
   Maraldo was selected following a seven-month search process that
began following Faye Wattleton's resignation in April to host a
syndicated television talk show.  A 10 member search, committee,
designated by PPFA's board of directors, closely considered nearly
100 candidates drawn from the fields of medicine, government,
public advocacy, women's rights and business.  David J. Andrews,
PPFA's executive vice president for 14 years, has served as acting
president in the interim.
   PPFA's 169 not-for-profit affiliates, with their more than
22,000 staff and volunteers, operate 922 centers in 49 states and
the District of Columbia.  These centers provide medical and
educational services for nearly 5 million Americans each year.
Planned Parenthood's international division, Family Planning
International Assistance, helps meet the family planning needs of
women and men overseas.
   As PPFA's chief executive, Maraldo will supervise a national
office annual budget of $44 million.
   Maraldo also assumes leadership of the Planned Parenthood Action
Fund, an independent, not-for-profit organization formed as the
political arm of PPFA.  The Action Fund engages in lobbying and
electoral activity to expand and preserve reproductive health and
reproductive rights.
 -30-
From: dwelch@mpd.tandem.com (Dan Welch)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Self Appreciation (was: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?)
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:42:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: devnull.2935
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tandem Computers (MPD) Austin, TX

In article <1992Nov17.221225.21312@cbnews.cb.att.com> eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans) writes:
>In article <2882@devnull.mpd.tandem.com> dwelch@mpd.tandem.com (Dan Welch) writes:
>>
>>....If you don't
>>believe this, check out an issue of "Ms." magazine.
>Why don't you check one out?  NO ads.  NONE.  Whatsoever.

I was mistaken; it's been a while since I last saw one.  However, in Ms.,
this is a pretty recent phenomenom; they did have ads until just a few
years ago.  Plus, the ads weren't pulled because the editors were afraid
of the negative effects they were having on the readers.  Besides, this
is just one of many women's magazines, and the others still have the
ads.

I still hold my point to be valid -- the pressure to look good that women
feel comes from other women, not men.

Daniel Welch
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us
Subject: Re: Self Appreciation (was: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?)
Organization: Nowhere
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 18:42:28 GMT

Peter,

As I posted to both you and Lenore previously, the MMPI-2 has suppositly
been updated for cultural (and other) changes.

Wendy
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: rfs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (richard.f.j.soyack)
Subject: Re: Sexist?  Dangerous?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 16:59:27 GMT

My favorite related conversation along these lines was told to
me by my friend Karen (what a clumsy sentence).  Karen is a
sprts wear model, and some nerd, as Karen put it, said to her
out of the blue, "I suppose you don't want to sleep with me."
Karen's reply was, "No, I'm not tired."

We are trying to talk Karen into doing stand-up comedy (among
other things).

Have fun,
Rich Soyack
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: mec6@quads.uchicago.edu (rini)
Subject: Re: <none>
Reply-To: mec6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:54:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.181215.4795@dragon.acadiau.ca> 
890530m@dragon.acadiau.ca (Darren MacKenzie) writes:
 
>I remember this discussion came up a couple years back on the net.  I'll
>say the same thing now that I say then.  As I am living in a co-ed dorm,
>I would have no problems of shared bathrooms (even in public places).  

[...]

>I expect flames from all the feminists from this one, and I can't wait to
>see the replies.

Gosh, I'm so sorry to disappoint you.

rini
-who has a co-ed bathroom in her house.

Newsgroups: soc.women
From: ra@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Starcap'n Ra)
Subject: Re: Sexist?  Dangerous?
Organization: soc.women
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:57:41 GMT

barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes:
> 	Yes, but that's not what I'm disputing. What you _said_ was that
> "compliments on appearance are rude".

     You know Kenn, this may or may not surprise you,
but I would pretty much go along with that.  For one
thing, so-called etiquette experts such as Miss
Manners do hold that it's rude, even though many
people (particularly women) do it anyway. I would
agree with Miss Manners, if for no other reason than
it tends to make the recipient self-conscious.

     Now oddly enough, while I find "polite" remarks
about my clothes or appearance to be annoying, I enjoy
complimentary remarks that make it obvious the
remarker finds me sexually attractive, be they female
or male.  Go figure.

     Perhaps this is because most of us males who
aren't famous musicians, or whatever, are so
infrequently treated as sex objects that we enjoy
it when it occasionally occurs.  I am, however, as
sure as I can be (short of being one) that if I were
a woman I would tell some man clueless enough to
walk up to me as a total stranger and remark about
my appearance to fuck off.  The reason I would do
this is because I would believe any reasonably
intelligent and perceptive man would know how often
women are harassed by men using this approach and
would never dream of taking the chance of being
mistaken for yet another asshole.  Because just
going on pure numbers, the overwhelming probability
would be that he *was* just another asshole.

--Starcap'n Ra       {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
                        {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
                                          ^---------------The Wrong Choice
                             internet: kennedy@asuvax.asu.edu
Xref: sparky soc.women:19783 alt.feminism:4610 soc.men:19467