Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: The delusional nature of sincere belief.
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 14:26:39 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:

>In article <adams.725848950@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>
>>>To what end is this "the best you can do?"  In concrete terms, what do you
>>>hope to get out of this, that you choose to follow the way of another
>>>rather than your own?
>>To have a right relationship with God.
>Why do you desire this?
Because I beleive it to be proper...since I believe in God, then such
action is proper...
 
>>>Are you saying that you are willingly unrepentant of some of your
>>>so-called sin?  I'm not sure I understand this.
>>
>>Well, uhm, yes.  Basically, I look at who I was 'then' and those things I
>>did made perfect sense, and in the same position I would do the same thing.
>>How can I repent that?
>
>I perceive that it would be very difficult for me to adhere to a deity whose
>moral standards were so alien to my own.  But I respect your feelings on
>this point.

It is not that the moral standard is alien...I wouldn't repeat those
actions at this point.  No way.  My point is that looking at the situations,
I don't see how I could have made different decisions, seeing as who I was
then...

>>>Your premise - "If you do ungodly things, you deserve hell" isn't quite
>>>what I was looking for.  If a woman refuses to have sex with a man, would
>>>you say that she "deserves" rape?  
>>
>>Of course not...but the analogy is false.
>
>Why?  Perhaps it hits a few societal buttons, but I don't think that it
>is a false analogy.  The pattern is the same in both - if you refuse to
>acquiese to demands put upon you by another, you deserve to have bad
>things happen to you.  The demands are "do godly things" and "have sex
>with a man"; the bad things are "go to hell" and "get raped."

I disagree with the analogy...in the case of the woman, BOTH of her choices
results in bodily invasion by the man.

In the case of God, there is a true choice.

>>>lies with me.  If what you believe is right, and God chooses to send me
>>>to hell, then I will go gladly - not because I think I "deserve" it, but
>>>because I would not wish to spend a single moment in a heaven ruled by
>>>such a God as that.
>>I see your point...but to me, God being the all-powerful creator, has the 
>>right to set up the system any way he wishes...I don't always like it,
>>either.  But in the end, He is God and His way is right(tm).
>
>I differ with you on the "all-powerful creator" bit, but even assuming that
>I accepted it, I would still choose to live out my own will instead of
>humbling myself before him...the one thing I refuse to compromise is my
>own integrity.  Doing that would be equivalent to annihilation, in my
>eyes.  Perhaps I shall burn...but 'twill be ME that burns in hell, rather
>than a shadow enjoying paradise.

I don't see that I give up on who I am by honoring God and humbling myself
before Him.  I *WANT* to do it...

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan