HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: An interesting question (any game)
From: hooverb@cs.wvu.wvnet.edu (Bruce Hoover,Armstrong)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 20:43:33 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Engineering Research Center
Originator: hooverb@a.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu

From article <1993Jan7.221956.8554@trl.oz.au>, by mathers@sibelius.trl.OZ.AU (Steven Mathers):
> In article <1993Jan7.000751.1@us.oracle.com>, cracicot@us.oracle.com writes:
> |> I have a moderately philosophical question for all you net-folk.
> |> 
> |> Is it a reasonable game action (in game of your choice) to threaten
> |> someone as follows, then carry through if they call your bluff:
> |> 
> |> "If you don't do/refrain-from action X, I will spend the rest of
> |>  the game making you do as badly as possible.  I don't care how
> |>  badly it wrecks my position."
> 
> It worked for Rome.  Any sort of empire game that doesn't allow for
> 'Do this or suffer' type diplomacy is seriously flawed IMHO.i
>
Ah, but there is a difference in

"Do this or suffer" 
and
"I will kill myself and take you with me"

many historical examples can be found for the first, but the second
(i.e. Kamakazi) seems to be fairly uncommon, and even then usually
limited to individuals, rather than entire cultures.

Can anyone provide historical examples of a culture which was willing to
face  cultural anihilation in order to dismay a foe?

Bruce Hoover
 
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Subject: Re: Command Magazine etc
Followup-To: rec.games.board
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: who knows
Date:  5 Jan 1993 17:17 EST  

garry@archsci.arch.su.edu.au (Garry Stevens) writes...
>I was a subscriber to S&T from the early 1970's until very recently. 

I also was a RECENT subscriber to S&T (including getting burned when S&T went
down temporarily) form the early 1970's.  I let my subscription lapsed because
of their GM-like response to subscribers and customers and I had a subscription
with Command instead.
From: roma@pe.chalmers.se (Robert Maglica)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: 1809 from VG
Date: 4 Jan 93 14:35:55 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology


Hi,
Does anyone know were i could find the game "1809" made
by Victory Games (out of print) ?

/Robert Maglica
From: rholmes@dhvx20.csudh.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Wanted: 1776 pbem opponent
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:56:10 GMT
Organization: CSU, DOMINGUEZ HILLS

Howdy Folks!

I'm looking for someone to play an email game of 1776; anyone up to
it?

Rod Holmes
rholmes@dhvx20.csudh.edu
From: manga@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Michael Betz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Formula I Games??
Date: 12 Jan 1993 01:16:56 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4


Has anyone out there found any decent games that simulate formula 1 auto
racing?? Especially ones that could easily be transcribed over for
miniatures?? I was thinking that this could make a good exhebition game for
our club.....

                        Tiger-A
                      Otaku-for-Hire
                    (and racing freak)

Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: Bruce_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Harper)
Subject: Re: Winning isn't everything
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:44:08 GMT

Here's another real-life example.  In a game of Adv Civ, I was in a bad
position (probably in last place).  In theory the game would end only when
one player completed the AST (not a time limit).  I attacked an adjacent
player who otherwise would have moved ahead on the AST and won.  My thinking
was that as long as the game was still going, I had a chance to win, whereas
if it ended I would lose for sure.

As it happened, everyone decided to call the game on time, and the player I
attacked came second (presumably because of my attack).  He was very upset
and thought I had behaved improperly.

In retrospect, I'm not sure whether I had or not. I had never met any of the
other players (other than one I had corresponded with), and the attack
certainly wasn't "personal" - it seemed to be the only chance to win, slim as
it might have been.  But perhaps in the circumstances it might have been
better to keep a low profile.

Was I right or wrong, or somewhere in between?  And was the "victim"
justified in being upset (this was at Avaloncon, and he might have gotten a
trophy or some other prize - I really didn't, and still don't, know)?
From: jerry@uni-paderborn.de (Gerald Siek)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Do YOU play to win?  (was: Re: Winning isn't everything)
Date: 12 Jan 1993 12:36:32 GMT
Organization: University of Paderborn, Germany
Reply-To: jerry@uni-paderborn.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: planck-bb.uni-paderborn.de
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Paul Kinsler (kinsler@newton.physics.uq.oz.au) wrote:
: My approach is:
: 1) Try to win
: 2) If you can't win, try to come second.
: 3) If you can't come second, try to be third
: ...
: n-1) If all else fails, try not to come last.
: 
: And there is another rule too ...
: 0) Have fun.

I think this should be rule #0 for every game!  I really dislike players
who desperately try everything to win.   After all, a game is just a game.
I always try to win, too, but when the game becomes too boring I will surely 
take some unusual or silly action just to have fun.   When playing
BattleTech I always try to move my 'Mechs in the very best positions, but
when no heavy hits have been scored after 20 turns or so tend to move some
of the 'Mechs just between the enemies forces to start a fistfight even if
I can expect to have my 'Mechs blown to dust.

I have met many "serious" players who did not agree to my position.
What do YOU think?

	Jerry
--
  Gerald Siek  -  jerry@uni-paderborn.de  -  University of Paderborn, Germany
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: sap@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Stephan A. Puga)
Subject: Looking for Paul Work (I think that is is name!)
Organization: Sacramento Public Access Unix
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 01:36:20 GMT

I was bidding on a game in some big auction that ended in November,
I payed my money (for winning of course!) and I still haven't
received my game!  If you happen to knwo which auction I am talking
about (it was pretty big and even had several large group buys),
and you know the email address of the guy handling it, please send
it to me!  I payed an awful lot for the game and I really would
like to get it!  Thanks!!!

Stephan A. Puga

-- 
#############################################################
# "Its been surreal!"         #     sap@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US   #  
#     -- Gogo Dodo            # UUCP=..ames!pacbell!sactoh0 #
#############################################################
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: frank@hypnos.bssi.bls.com (moo)
Subject: Games for sale
Organization: BellSouth Systems Integration
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:45:20 GMT

I am cleaning out my games closet to make room for new acquisitions and will
start a minor game auction. Shipping will be handled on a per case basis
depending on size and weight. 

Games:

DragonMaster-GW 	Played once. 
Kerrunch-GW		Played once.
Mighty Empires-GW	Box is ratty, but good condition pieces.
Blackbeard-AH		unpunched
New World-AH		unpunched
GodsFire-metgaming	punched and old
Executive Decision-3M   Musty
Russian Civil War-SPI	unpunched with mounted map
Conquest of the Empire-MB A few broken spears

I also have an odd collection of S&T and Ares games from the magazines but
without the magazines. (Not for collectors but cool for gameplayers.)

I have the S&T's from Paratroop-Tito---and a copy of Scrimmage (oh joy.) Will
happily trade a few of these for a Dragon 125, or copy of the Clay-o-rama
article.
From: chappel@eecg.toronto.edu (John Chappel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Formula I Games??
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:23:41 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Electrical Engineering, University of Toronto

In article <1it668INN3hu@uwm.edu> manga@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Michael Betz) writes:
>
>Has anyone out there found any decent games that simulate formula 1 auto
>racing?? Especially ones that could easily be transcribed over for
>miniatures?? I was thinking that this could make a good exhebition game for
>our club.....
>
>                        Tiger-A
>                      Otaku-for-Hire
>                    (and racing freak)
>

We used to play a LOT of Avalon Hill's Speed Circuit at the game's club I 
belonged to in Toronto. One of the most popular spectator events at our
conventions was an F1 race played on a large track using 6" model cars.

JC
From: m91pma@tdb.uu.se (Patrik Manlig)
Subject: Re: An interesting question (any game)
Organization: Dept. of Scientific Computing, Uppsala Univ.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:03:54 GMT

cracicot@us.oracle.com writes:
: Under what circumstances do you think such things are reasonable actions?
: I can give one example where it might actually be justified.  If I am
: obviously in dead last place, and someone is about to attack me and
: put the last nail in my coffin lid, I can see myself issuing such a
: threat, since I don't have anything to lose at that point, since it
: would be fruitless to try to play for a better position than my
: assured last place.

  I've used it for this purpose myself, and I think that this strategy
 is valid for "defensive" use. I.e. if someone stabs me in Diplomacy, I
 treat that as a DOW, and I will then do all that is possible to prevent
 that player to benefit from the stab. Even if this means that I will have
 to give my territories to a third player. And even if I might even worsen
 my position in that particular game, I know that the person will think
 twice before betraying me again if I can burn him bad enough. But the way
 Diplomacy works, I would probably still accept a player that betrays me to
 slightly improve his own position, say to insure that he will finish 1st
 instead of risking a split or 2nd place, _if he then chooses to cease hos-
 tilities_. If he insists on destroying me, I can't do much else than resist.
 This is a way to say that even players with no chance of winning can matter
 in any multiplayer game. If the leading player tries to step on everybody's
 toes at the same time, they will ally against him and possibly defeat him.
 However, I probably wouldn't ever be subdued by a threat like this used
 "offensively", i.e. like in your second example. Then it's just an absurd
 strategy.
-- 
 m91pma@bellatrix.tdb.uu.se        /Patrik Manlig
 "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Across Five Aprils...How is it?
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 03:03:14 GMT

kbos@carina.unm.edu (K. Mitchell Bose) writes:
>Any reviews out there???

Soon, I hope.  I bought it, read the rules, and will hopefully play it
this month.  The reports I've heard from those who have played the game
are generally positive.  Of the five scenarios, however, there is
varying degrees of success.  I've read about four people's comments on
the game, and everybody seems to like Shiloh and dislike Pea Ridge; the
other three are each liked by some and disliked by others.

The rules read very well: good introductory level game; you could
probably play twice in an evening, except the Gettysburg scenario,
which looks quite large.  Similar to the old SPI Blue & Gray quad
games, but enhanced with a draw-a-chit-to-activate-units design.  This
prevents unrealistic tactics like shifting every unit in your whole
line down one to free up an extra one for a flank attack: the Xth corps
may get to move this turn, but the next chit drawn might be the
enemy's, and you don't want to leave that hole in your line in the
meantime . . .

Solitaire works fairly well, thanks to the chit-drawing technique,
too: you never know which units will move next, or when you'll have to
fight that turn.  Some Southern corps have two chits per corps to
represent superior Southern reaction time: you only move on the first
one (usually), but the odds are improved that you'll be drawn sooner
than a Union chit.

I'm looking forward to playing it.

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
From: jmm@scarabz.Corp.Sun.COM (John Morrison)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Culloden - game based on it maybe???
Date: 5 Jan 1993 23:26:08 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: jmm@scarabz.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: scarabz.corp.sun.com


Greetings,

     I was wondering if anyone has heard of a game adaptation of the famous/
infamous battle/fiasco of Culloden.  The complexity level that I am hoping for
is something that is hex based, although any information would be greatly 
appreciated.

Thanks

John Morrison
john.morrison@corp.sun.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: kwhitley@oracle.uucp (Kevin Whitley)
Subject: Re: Looking for Dragonriders of Pern Game
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:39:10 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.


Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: jdoucette@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca (JOHN DOUCETTE)
Subject: Re: An interesting question (any game)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Holland College - Charlottetown PEI
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:28:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.020649.27282@trl.oz.au>, s.mathers@trl.oz.au writes...
>In article <1iso60INN6fk@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>, coxa@ucs.orst.edu (huh?) writes:
>|> 
>|> I strongly beleive that suicidal actions are wholly illogical and 
>|> only leaders who lack a sense of logic would attempt to employ
>|> this tactic.  Try to convince me otherwise.
>|> 
>|> --Mark

	You forget that emotion is as much a factor as logic.  More, in  
some cases.

> 
>I doubt whether a country/empire would choose a suicidal course of
>action on purpose, but in a lot of cases, conflicts get out of hand
>and end up as 'There aint room enough on this planet for the two
>of us.'

	The only situation I can see is the one where it's "We're going to 
die anyway so why not die fighting".  

John Doucette
From: 00nderwin@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: An interesting question (any game)
Date: 11 Jan 93 02:01:52 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

In article <C0no8M.6Bs@cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu>, hooverb@cs.wvu.wvnet.edu (Bruce Hoover,Armstrong) writes:
> From article <1993Jan7.221956.8554@trl.oz.au>, by mathers@sibelius.trl.OZ.AU (Steven Mathers):
>> In article <1993Jan7.000751.1@us.oracle.com>, cracicot@us.oracle.com writes:
>> |> I have a moderately philosophical question for all you net-folk.
>> |> 
>> |> Is it a reasonable game action (in game of your choice) to threaten
>> |> someone as follows, then carry through if they call your bluff:
>> |> 
>> |> "If you don't do/refrain-from action X, I will spend the rest of
>> |>  the game making you do as badly as possible.  I don't care how
>> |>  badly it wrecks my position."
>> 
>> It worked for Rome.  Any sort of empire game that doesn't allow for
>> 'Do this or suffer' type diplomacy is seriously flawed IMHO.i
>>
> Ah, but there is a difference in
> 
> "Do this or suffer" 
> and
> "I will kill myself and take you with me"
> 
> many historical examples can be found for the first, but the second
> (i.e. Kamakazi) seems to be fairly uncommon, and even then usually
> limited to individuals, rather than entire cultures.
> 
> Can anyone provide historical examples of a culture which was willing to
> face  cultural anihilation in order to dismay a foe?
> 
> Bruce Hoover
>  
Is this when the person playing the game demands you do such and such, or the
character(s) the person is playing demands such action.  If it is the person
playing the game that demands you do whatever, I think that person is not a
verying the game that demands such action, they do not sound like a very
good person to play games with IMHO.

  Nathan Erwin
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: fred_s@netcom.com (Frederick Scott)
Subject: Re: An interesting question (any game)
Organization: Nerds On Parade
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:49:21 GMT

cracicot@us.oracle.com writes: 

>I have a moderately philosophical question for all you net-folk.
>
>Is it a reasonable game action (in game of your choice) to threaten
>someone as follows, then carry through if they call your bluff:
>
>"If you don't do/refrain-from action X, I will spend the rest of
> the game making you do as badly as possible.  I don't care how
> badly it wrecks my position."

This question was argued at length on r.g.b. approximately 14-15 months
ago in the form of the "meta-gaming" question.  (Somebody brought up an
example in Cosmic Encounter where the story-teller held two very powerful
cards, Zap cards, I think they were.  Someone else was in a position to
win the game at a certain moment in a way which could only be stopped with
a Zap card.  A third player had just got a chance to look at story-teller's
cards, so he knew that the story teller held *two* Zap cards.  The story-teller
played the first Zap card and the third player, knowing he had another,
played some sort of Zap-cancelling card which he assumed would force the
story-teller to play his other Zap card - what choice did he have?  Well,
the story-teller decided his other choice was to let the second guy win, so
that's what he did - ultimate vengenance.)  The term "meta-gaming" was used
to refer to an action which might be counter-productive in a given game but
might, in the long run, gain an advantage for the "meta-gamer" in such a way
as to permit him to win more games overall.  The question: is "meta-gaming"
ethical?

Some thought no, you ought to play each and every game to win that game and
only that game - as if you were never going to play another game with these
same opponents again.

Some thought yes, arguing that any tool (within the rules of a game) at your
disposal for winning is fair game, including forging a reputation for
vengenance.

Personally, I agree with a lot of the posters whose responses I've seen that
feel it's fair and reasonable for a player to commit vengeful acts if they've
a mind to.  In some cases, I think it's a wise strategy.

I also agree with those who've said it can be overused.  If this person always
goes off on a hair-trigger or constantly wants too much from those he threatens
(a particular habit of less-mature personalities), sooner or later in the game
someone is going to stand up to him and he'll lose *every* game.  If this is
the sort of person you're playing with, I might point out to you that it's a
perfectly legitimate strategy to manuaver to get into his good graces and then
just wait for the time bomb to explode on some *else*.

Fred
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Formula I Games??
From: C1899007@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU (tobin lathrop)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 16:00:16 CST
Organization: UM ST. LOUIS
NNTP-Posting-Host: umslvma.umsl.edu

In article <1it668INN3hu@uwm.edu>
manga@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Michael Betz) writes:
 
>
>
>Has anyone out there found any decent games that simulate formula 1 auto
>racing?? Especially ones that could easily be transcribed over for
>miniatures?? I was thinking that this could make a good exhebition game for
>our club.....
>
>                        Tiger-A
>                      Otaku-for-Hire
>                    (and racing freak)
>
 
    only one i can think of off hand is Speed Circut from AH... its a
real good game and fun to play...
 
                     -tobin
                      c1899007@umslvma.umsl.edu
From: Ricardo.Sedan@launchpad.unc.edu (Ricardo Sedan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Has there been a TITAN issue of "The General"?
Date: 7 Jan 93 04:26:30 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service

general, vol.20 no. 2
july/aug 1983
featured titan as its cover feature.
it incleded an overview/strategy article,
an article on tactics, 
and a design notes article.
pretty good issue; i'm sure you can order it from a.h.
-rock


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: imb@oasis.icl.co.uk (Ian Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Multi-Player Game Poopers
Date: 8 Jan 93 10:48:53 GMT
Distribution: rec.games.board
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Dennis Watson (watson@clark.edu) wrote:
: 
: We also have instituted a cocked-die rule that leaves no doubt.  If the 
: die is on any two surfaces, it is cocked!
: 
: Dennis
: watson@clark.edu

This would not help with an event that occcured recently while playing
"The game of nations" (not sure of title - the one with the tea cloth map),
anyway the play rolls a single die for some event onto the map and the die
stops balanced on one of the corners (no sides or edges touching).



	All the best
              Ian Malcolm Brown

Mail:         imb@oasis.icl.co.uk  OR  ...!uel!dsbc!imb
From: arrow@stein.u.washington.edu (Ken Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Warhammer (Fantasy Battle/ 40K/ Epic)
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:24:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1iao1bINNe61
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

malterer@kirk.fmi.uni-passau.de (Christian Malterer) writes:

>currently i am playing Epic most of the time, mainly because i think the
>new warhammer battle rules have lost much of the excitement and strategy
>even as they have corrected and improved many things in the dubious 3rd ed
>rules.	a thing to discuss perhaps in this newsgroup ... 

After spending a lot of time looking through the new rulebook, I think most of
the rules changes are good ones, but a few I feel are garbage.  I've been going
through and rewriting a lot of the new book (on computer, of course), and as
soon as I'm done, I'll post all the changes if there's any demand for 'em.

The biggest change I want to make is to use the old aerial rules, only a big
improvement that I can see is to make the distance for air-to-ground weapons
counted as horizontal distance + 1/2*vertical distance (instead of the 3rd ed
horizontal distance + (vertical distance - 20")).  Also, make charging give a
+4 to initiative, instead of automatically winning init.  I'm sorry, but elves
with spears receiving a charge by goblins with hand weapons will skewer the
gobbos before they get a chance.  The gobbos just aren't *that* fast.

Also, if anyone's interested in orc & gobbo plastic figs, I'll be listing a
bunch of 'em up for sale real soon (I have a personal dislike for playing the
ugly suckers....)

>>>=================================-
Ken Martin
arrow@u.washington.edu
From: atra@galaxy.ucr.edu (wayne wallace)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: SFB: photons & warp use
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:47:12 GMT
Organization: University of California, Riverside

forgot to add a few words at end of this paragraph. here it is corrected.

In article <24873@galaxy.ucr.edu> atra@galaxy.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) writes:
standard weapons, etc. The reason you are using warp power for batteries is
because photon torpedoes require warp energy to charge. (note that they can use
standard energy (impulse, APR, batteries without warp energy) to hold non-
overloads)

[end of included text]

There you go.

Wayne
-- 
*    // Only /\      |Lord Zar,Commander Of All He Surveys|Stay Alert! Trust  *
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