From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Maimonides on the Trinity  - (was( old) Question For Rob Levene)
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:22:41 GMT
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems

In article <1992Sep26.111259.20457@ousrvr.oulu.fi> dah@tko.vtt.fi (David Harwood) writes:
>In article <9209251201.AA29681@aplpy.jhuapl.edu> levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene) writes:
>>dah@tko.vtt.fi writes:
>>
>>...
>>> Maimonides, the greatest rabbi and codifier of your "fundemental principles"
>>> of Judaism - stated that it was false that the Christian concept of the
>>> Trinity involved "belief in another diety,"
>>
>>I think you're confusing what's permitted for Jews to believe
>>and what's permitted for gentiles to believe.  To which
>>statements of Maimonides do you refer?
>>
>>Some codifiers would say that for gentiles, belief in a mandatory
>>intercessor or "assistant" to G-d would be OK, others still call that
>>idolatry.
>>
>>R
>>
>\\\\\\\\\\\
>Actually, you are confusing issues more by omitting the relevant context
>of my reply, and by some speculative confusion of other notions.
>
>I meant what I said, responding to a mistaken but traditional polemical
>criticism of Christianity, reiterated by H.M. Which context you omitted.
>
>If you remind me, I will research the reference when I return home from
>overseas (in a few weeks). Maimonides was correcting uninformed Jewish
>criticism, in this passage - he knows that Christians do not believe

It seems appropriate to repost a translation of what the RAMBAM
actually said at this point.

____________________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz    |  Said the fox to the fish, join me ashore  |
| H_Markowitz@att.com |  The fish are the Jews, Torah is the water |
|_____________________|____________________________________________|

From: sg04@ploni.gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: The Laws Concerning Mashiach (Rambam)
Date: 23 Jun 92 15:35:39 GMT
Reply-To: sgutfreund@gte.com
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA


		    The Laws Concerning Mashiach

		Chapters 11 & 12 of Hilchos Melachim
		from the Mishneh Torah of the Rambam

			  Published by:

		        Sichos In English
	              788 Eastern Parkway
		    Brooklyn, New York 11213
	        (718)778-5436; FAX: (718)735-4139 

		     PUBLISHER'S FOREWORD

Since the time of the Rambam (1135-1204), it has been impossible to
discuss the subject of Mashiach and the Era of the Redemption without
direct reference to the last two chapters of his monumental halachic
code, the Mishneh Torah. For example, it is these two chapters that
form the basis of the whole of the next publication of Sichos In
English - I Await His Coming Every Day: Studies by the Lubavitcher
Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem M. Schneerson (shlita) on the Rambam's Conception
of Mashiach and the Ultimate Redemption.

These chapters conclude the final section (Hilchos Melachim - "The Laws
Concerning Kings") of the final book (Sefer Shoftim - "The Book of
Judges") of the Mishneh Torah, and are sometimes referred to separately
as Hilchos Melech HaMashiach - "The Laws Concerning King Mashiach."

The translation of this classic text which Sichos In English presents
herewith is not only new, but - unlike almost all of the extant printed
editions, even in the Hebrew original - unexpurgated. All the passages
suppressed by various medieval Christian censors have been translated
in full. They appear here in the footnotes that are keyed to the exact
positions from which they were deleted.

It is hoped that this publication will give more and more readers
access to one of the major primary sources on the subject of the coming
of Mashiach.

[Footnotes at end of text]

			 - Sichos In English
			   24 Sivan, 5751 [June 6, 1991]



			CHAPTER ELEVEN

1. In future time, the King Mashiach[1] will arise and renew the
Davidic dynasty, restoring it to its initial sovereignty. He will
rebuild the [Beis Ha]Mikdash and gather in the dispersed remnant of
Israel. Then, in his days, all the statutes will be reinstituted as in
former times. We will offer sacrifices and observe the Sabbatical and
Jubilee years according to all their particulars set forth in the
Torah.

Whoever does not believe in him, or does not await his coming, denies
not only [the statements of] the other prophets, but also [those of]
the Torah and of Moshe, our teacher, for the Torah attests to his
coming, stating: [Devarim 30:3-5]

    And the Lord your G-d will bring back your captivity 
    and have compassion upon you. He will return and gather
    you [from among all the nations].... Even if your 
    dispersed ones are in the furthest reaches of the 
    heavens, [from there will G-d gather you in].... G-d 
    will bring you [to the land]....

These explicit words of the Torah include all that was said [on the
subject] by all the prophets.

There is also a reference [to Mashiach] in the passage concerning
Bilaam, who prophesies about the two anointed [kings]: the first
anointed [king][2], David, who saved Israel from her oppressors, and
the final anointed [king] who will arise from among his descendants and
save Israel [at the End of Days][3]. The following [quoted] phrases are
from that passage: [Bamidbar 24:17-18]

    "I see it, but not now" - This refers to David; "I perceive 
    it, but not in the near future" - This refers to King Mashiach.

    "A star shall go forth from Yaakov" - This refers to David; 
    "and a staff shall arise in Israel" - This refers to King Mashiach.

    "He shall crush all of Moab's princes" - This refers to David, 
    (as it is written [II Shmuel 8:2], "He smote Moab and measured 
    them with a line"); "he shall break down all of Seth's 
    descendants" - This refers to King Mashiach, (about whom 
    it is written [Zechariah 9:10], "He will rule from sea to sea").

    "Edom will be demolished" - This refers to David, (as it is 
    written [Cf. II Shmuel 8:6 and 8:14], "Edom became the 
    servants of David"); "his enemy, Seir, will be destroyed" - 
    This refers to Mashiach, (as it is written [Ovadiah 1:21], 
    "Saviors will ascend Mount Zion [to judge the mountain 
    of Esau....]").

2. Similarly, in regard to the cities of refuge, it is stated [Devarim
19:8-9], "When G-d will expand your borders... you shall add three more
cities." This command has never been fulfilled. [Surely,] G-d did not
give this command in vain, [and thus the intent was that it be
fulfilled after the coming of Mashiach]. There is no need to cite
prooftexts on the concept [of the Mashiach] from the words of the
prophets, for all [their] books are filled with it.

3. One should not entertain the notion that the King Mashiach must work
miracles and wonders, bring about new phenomena within the world,
resurrect the dead, or perform other similar deeds. This is
[definitely] not true.

[A proof can be brought from the fact that] that Rabbi Akiva, one of
the greatest Sages of the Mishnah, was one of the supporters of King
Ben Koziva, and would describe him as the King Mashiach. He and all the
Sages of his generation considered him to be the King Mashiach until he
was killed because of [his] sins. Once he was killed, they realized
that he was not [the Mashiach]. The Sages did not ask him for any signs
or wonders.

[Rather,] this is the main thrust of the matter: This Torah, with its
statutes and laws, is everlasting. We may neither add to them nor
detract from them. [4]

4. If a king will arise from the House of David who delves deeply into
the study of the Torah and, like David his ancestor, observes its
mitzvos as prescribed by the Written Law and the Oral Law; if he will
compel all of Israel to walk in [the way of the Torah] and repair the
breaches [in its observance]; and if he will fight the wars of G-d; -
we may, with assurance, consider him Mashiach.

If he succeeds in the above, builds the [Beis Ha]Mikdash on its site,
and gathers in the dispersed remnant of Israel, he is definitely the
Mashiach. [5]

He will then perfect the entire world, [motivating all the nations] to
serve G-d together, as it is written [Zephaniah, 3:9], "I will make the
peoples pure of speech so that they will all call upon the Name of G-d
and serve Him with one purpose."

			CHAPTER TWELVE

1. One should not entertain the notion that in the Era of Mashiach any
element of the natural order will be nullified, or that there will be
any innovation in the work of creation. Rather, the world will continue
according to its pattern.

Although Yeshayahu [Yeshayahu 11:6] states, "The wolf will dwell with
the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the young goat," these
[words] are an allegory and a riddle. They mean that Israel will dwell
securely together with the wicked gentiles who are likened to wolves
and leopards, as in the verse [Yirmeyahu 5:6], "A wolf of the deserts
despoils them, a leopard watches over their cities." [In this era, all
nations] will return to the true faith and no longer plunder or
destroy. Instead, at peace with Israel, they will eat that which is
permitted, as it is written [Yeshayahu 11:7], "The lion shall eat straw
like the ox."

Similarly, other prophecies of this nature concerning Mashiach are
analogies. In the Era of the King Mashiach, everyone will realize what
was implied by these metaphors and allusions.

2. Our Sages taught: [Berachos 34b] "There will be no difference
between the current age and the Era of Mashiach except [our
emancipation from] subjugation to the [gentile] kingdoms."

The simple meaning of the words of the prophets appears to imply that
the war of Gog and Magog [Yechezkal ch. 38] will take place at the
beginning of the Messianic age. Before the war of Gog and Magog, a
prophet will arise to rectify Israel's conduct and prepare their hearts
[for the Redemption], as it is written: [Malachi 3:23] "Behold, I am
sending you Eliyah(u) [6] [before the advent of the great and awesome
Day of G-d]."

He will not come [in order] to declare the pure, impure, nor to declare
the impure, pure; nor [will he come in order] to disqualify the lineage
of those presumed to be of flawless descent, nor to validate lineage
which is presumed to be blemished. Rather, [he will come in order] to
establish peace in the world; as [the above prophecy] continues
[Malachi 3:24], "He will bring back the hearts of the fathers to the
children."

Some of the Sages say that Eliyahu will appear [immediately] before the
coming of Mashiach.

All these and similar matters cannot be [clearly] known by man until
they occur, for they are undefined in the words of the prophets. Even
the Sages have no established tradition regarding these matters, beyond
what is implied by the verses; hence there is a divergence of opinion
among them.

In any case, neither the sequence of these events nor their precise
details are among the fundamental principles of the faith. One should
not occupy himself at length with the aggadot and midrashim that deal
with these and similar matters, nor should he deem them of prime
importance, for they bring one to neither the awe nor the love [of
G-d].

Similarly, one should not try to calculate the appointed time [for the
coming of Mashiach]. Our Sages declared: [Sanhedrin 97b] "May the
spirits of those who attempt to calculate the final time [of Mashiach's
coming] expire!" Rather, one should await [his coming] and believe in
the general conception of the matter, as we have explained.

3. During the Era of the King Mashiach, once his kingdom has been
established and all of Israel has gathered around him, the entire
[nation's] line of descent will be established on the basis of his
words, through the prophetic spirit which will rest upon him. As it is
written [Loc. cit., v. 3], "He shall sit as a refiner and purifier."

He will purify the lineage of the Levites first, stating that "This one
is a priest of defined lineage" and "This one is a Levite of defined
lineage." Those whose lineage he does not recognize will be relegated
to the status of Israelites. This is implied by the following verse:
[Ezra 2:63] "The governor said to them, '[They shall not eat of the
most holy things] until a priest arises [who will wear] the Urim and
Tumim.'" From this verse one can infer that the genealogy of those
presumed to be of unquestioned [priestly and levitical] lineage will be
traced by means of the prophetic spirit, and those found to be of such
lineage will be made known.

He will define the lineage of the Israelites according to their tribe
alone; i.e., he will make known each person's tribal origin, stating
that "This one is from this tribe" and "This one is from another
tribe." However, concerning a person who is presumed to be of
unblemished lineage, he will not state that "He is illegitimate," or
"He is of slave lineage," for the law rules that once a family has
become intermingled [within the entire Jewish people], they may remain
intermingled.

4. The Sages and prophets did not yearn for the Messianic Era in order
that [the Jewish people] rule over the entire world, nor in order that
they have dominion over the gentiles, nor that they be exalted by them,
nor in order that they eat, drink and celebrate. Rather, their
aspiration was that [the Jewish people] be free Ito involve themselves]
in Torah and its wisdom, without anyone to oppress or disturb them, and
thus be found worthy of life in the World to Come, as we explained in
Hilchos Teshuvah.

5. In that Era there will be neither famine nor war, neither envy nor
competition, for good things will flow in abundance and all the
delights will be as freely available as dust. The occupation of the
entire world will be solely to know G-d. The Jews will therefore be
great sages and know the hidden matters, and will attain an
understanding of their Creator to the [full] extent of human potential;
as it is written [Yeshayahu 11:9], "For the world will be filled with
the knowledge of G-d as the waters cover the ocean bed."

			  FOOTNOTES

1. In the original Hebrew, HaMelech HaMoshiach (lit., "the anointed
king"); i.e., the Messianic King.]

2. In the original Hebrew, the word here translated "anointed [king]"
is simply HaMashiach (lit.  "the anointed one"); i.e., the Messiah. It
is used interchangeably with the earlier phrase.]

3. At this point, before being censored by medieval Christian
authorities, the Rambam's original text continued: "...and save Israel
from the hand's of Esav's descendants. This and two other such
deletions have been copied verbatim in these footnotes from the
celebrated Yemenite manuscript in the hands of Chacham Yosef Kapach of
Jerusalem. (See footnotes 4 and 5, below.)]

4. At this point, the uncensored original text continued as follows:
"Whoever adds to [the mitzvot] or detracts from them, or misinterprets
the the Torah, implying that the mitzvos are not intended to be
understood literally, is surely a wicked imposter and a heretic."

5. The whole of the following passage was deleted from most of the
editions published since the Venice edition of 1574.

"If he did not succeed to this degree or he was killed, he surely is
not [the redeemer] promised by the Torah. [Rather,] he should be
considered as all the other proper and legitimate kings of the Davidic
dynasty who died.  G-d only caused him to arise in order to test the
multitude. As it is written [Daniel 11:35], "Some of the wise men will
stumble, to purge, to refine, and to clarify, until the appointed time,
for it is yet to come."

"Jesus of Nazareth who aspired to be the Mashiach and was executed by
the court was also spoken of in Daniel's prophecies [Daniel 11:14],
"The renegades among your people shall exalt themselves in an attempt
to fulfill the vision, but they shall stumble."

"Can there be a greater stumbling block than [Christianity]?  All the
prophets spoke of Moshiach as the redeemer of Israel and their savior,
who would gather their dispersed ones and strengthen their [observance
of] the mitzvos. In contrast [the founder of Christianity] caused the
Jews to be slain by the sword, their remnants to be scattered and
humiliated, the Torah to be altered, and the majority of the world to
err and serve a god other than the L-rd."

"Nevertheless, the intent of the Creator of the world is not within the
power of man to comprehend, for [to paraphrase Yeshayahu 55:8] His ways
are not our ways, nor are His thoughts our thoughts. [Ultimately,] all
the deeds of Jesus of Nazareth and that Ishmaelite [i.e. Mohammed] who
arose after him will only serve to pave the way for the coming of
Mashiach and for the improvement of the entire world, [motivating the
nations] to serve G-d together, as it is written [Zephaniah 3:9], "I
will make the peoples pure of speech so that they will all call upon
the Name of G-d and serve Him with one purpose."

"How will this come about? The entire world has already become filled
with talk of [the supposed] Messiah, as well as of the Torah and the
mitzvos.  These matters have been spread among many spiritually
insensitive nations, who discuss these matters as well as the mitzvos
of the Torah. Some of them [i.e. the Christians] say: "These
commandments were true, but are not in force in the present age; they
are not applicable for all time." Others [i.e. the Moslems] say:
"Implied in the commandments are hidden concepts that cannot be
understood simply; the Messiah has already come and revealed them."

"When the true Messiah king will arise and prove successful, his
[position becoming] exalted and uplifted, they will all return and
realize that their ancestors endowed them with a false heritage; their
prophets and ancestors cause them to err."

6. The name of the prophet is occasionally spelled, as in this verse,
without the final letter vav.



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Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund		 		  sgutfreund@gte.com
GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA			    harvard!bunny!sgutfreund
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