HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Messeian recommendations?
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:51:57 GMT

In article <BxGFoD.wu@brunel.ac.uk> David.Martland@brunel.ac.uk (David Martland) writes:
>Paolo Leva writes in answer to Bob Martino:
>
>
>    >Hi Rob,
>    >
>    >I suggest you to buy the Turangalila Symphonie recorded last year 
>    >by CHUNG (I'm not sure about the spelling) on Deutsch Grammophone.
>    >As an alternative you can try to find a recording of the same symphonie
>    >by R. Chailly (Decca). I know he is a great interpreter of Messiaen but
>    >I'm not sure whether he has already recorded that symphonie.
>    >
>    >If you are interested in Messiaen's music I can also suggest you to
>    >listen to 'la transfiguration de notre signeur Jesus christus' (sorry
>    >for all the spelling mistakes, french is definetely an unknown language
>    >to me). It is a religious work quiet long (one and an half hour) but
>    >extremely beautiful.
>    >
>    >Hi, Paolo.
>    >
>
>I don't know the Chung version of th Turangalila symphony, but would suggest that you
>look around for the Previn version on EMI. Unfortunalely (as far as I know)  they haven't
>seen fit to reisssue it on CD, so you'll need to look out for the LPs. It was for a very
>long time the version to have, although for some inexplicable reason EMI decided to put
>Simon Rattle's version (also good) onto CD in preference to Previn's.  If anyone wants
>to hassle EMI in the hope of getting the Previn available again, they will have my support.

Amazingly enough, this is one of the few works where I enjoy Seiji
Ozawa. His Toronto SO recording, with the Loriods, while not as well
played as many others, strikes me as being more atmospheric. I prefer
it to Previn and Salonen and Rattle, but haven't heard Chung.

The most *exciting* performance I ever heard was a relay from a prom a
few years back, with the National Youth Orchestra under Mark Elder (I
think). The Martenot were *really* cranked up high.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: HMUSAMWS@admin.uh.edu (SUMBERA, MICHEAL W.)
Subject: Re: The Best Thaikovsky's 6th
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:14:52 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <bTB=1S@engin.umich.edu> newjack@engin.umich.edu writes:

> which is the best recording of the Thaikovsky's 6th symphony out there.

This may not be the best recording, but I'm rather partial to it possibly
because it so much more individual than any other recording I'vr heard.  That
being the recent Bernstein recording with the NY Phil.  Yes, as usual in his
late recordings the tempos are incredibly slow (last mvmt. 17+ minutes or so),
but this to me heightens the intensity of the piece over the whole performance.
The climax of the first movement is unbelievably slow, but I marvel at the NY
brass low brass for maintaining volume, intensity, consistency of tone color.
It works.

I wouldn't recommend the other late Bernstein Tchaik recordings, but this is one
is something to listen.  Not very often, mind you.  It is a fairly draining
performance.

MWS
From: givler@bermuda.cbm.commodore.com (Greg Givler)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The Best Thaikovsky's 6th
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:20:14 GMT
Organization: Another Amiga UNIX System

In article <bTB=1S@engin.umich.edu> newjack@engin.umich.edu (Kyong Soo Lee) writes:
>Hello fellow netters!  I'm sure this question has been raised in the past.  Anyway,
>which is the best recording of the Thaikovsky's 6th symphony out there now in your opinion?
>
>Hope to get a long productive thread on this subject!
>

My recording is Solti and the Chicago. When the brass come in the first 
movement you'll jump out of your seat. I did the first time I heard it.

>Kyong Lee
>newjack@engin.umich.edu

Greg
-- 
Greg Givler                 | "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Commodore Product Assurance | - Mark Twain
givler@cbmvax.commodore.com |
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel)
Subject: Re: Prokofiev, Romeo, Maazel/Cleveland
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:34:55 GMT

In article <terjer-121192114039@majestix.ifi.unit.no>, terjer@ifi.unit.no (Terje Rydland) writes...

>What about the Previn recording from about the same time (middle 70's) on
>EMI. Is that available on CD? I bought it back then on LP and from what I
>have heard of the Maazel I prefer Previn.
>Other opinions?
> 
This is also available on CD.  It is a great performance in its own
right, but I prefer the Maazel (by a hair) because of the strong
rhythmic force of his interpretation, and the technical brilliance
of the Cleveland Orchestra.

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Subject: Re: Tomita (was The Planets)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 16:31:51 GMT

> Phil Hees writes:
>
> I have to add one more note to this thread:  Isao Tomita has an excellent
> electronic interpretation of The Planets, if anyone is interested in
> trying something other than the usual symphony versions.


Wasn't there one of Tomita's recordings which was suddenly withdrawn for some
reason? Was it The Planets? Something to do with copyright?

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: terjer@ifi.unit.no (Terje Rydland)
Subject: Re: Prokofiev, Romeo, Maazel/Cleveland
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: IfI, UNIT-AVH
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 10:41:22 GMT

In article <11NOV199208084269@portal.lasc.lockheed.com>,
le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel) wrote:
> 
> In article <Charles.R.Hohenstein.1-081192204730@hesmac23.hesburgh.lab.nd.edu>, Charles.R.Hohenstein.1@nd.edu  (Charles R. Hohenstein) writes...
> 
> >I have been attempting to purchase the Maazel/Cleveland recording of the
> >complete Romeo and Juliet ballet on London, but it seems to be out of
> >print.
> 
> It is still available in the catelog, and I have a copy on CD myself.
> It is great, too.
> 
> Ron

What about the Previn recording from about the same time (middle 70's) on
EMI. Is that available on CD? I bought it back then on LP and from what I
have heard of the Maazel I prefer Previn.
Other opinions?

Terje Rydland
From: cwr@crash.cts.com (Will Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Sheet music editor
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:15:56 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

A friend teaches the violin, and is looking for a sheet music editor
to run on an IBM PC and print out the manuscripts for his students.
I have no idea where to start looking for such a (shareware) beast -
he's already tried a program called Composer and doesn't much like it.

Does anyone have any ideas?  Please email to cwr@crash.cts.com.

Thanks - Will
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Trill notation question
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:34:08 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

> In article <1992Oct28.130816.1@ocvaxc.cc.oberlin.edu>,
> bamon@ocvaxc.cc.oberlin.edu wrote:
>> Does anyone know the meaning of the following notation:
>> 
>>            #                 b (flat)
>>           tr        or       tr
>>            #                 #
>> I would have assumed it to be a turn in the second case with a flatted
>> upper note and a sharped lower note, but there are also turns in this
>> piece (an Altes flute etude) marked with the normal turn notation.

The symbol tr always means `trill'. The sharp/flat on top clearly means
sharpen/flatten the auxiliary (upper) note. The sharp underneath assumes that
you'll play a turn at the end; just sharpen it! (So for instance
ABbABb...ABbAG#A)
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Salome
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:46:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxGpH4.LHs
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <Nov06.053519.38704@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:

>Well, I just bought the Sinopoli recording of Salome with Cheryl Studer in the
>title role...It is beautiful!!  

Isn't it marvelous?  Not only is Cheryl Studer splendid, but for once
Sinopoli sounds absolutely in tune with the music he's conducting.

>I have already listened to it twice (I am used
>to Wagner - this is so short!) and there is a lot here to like.  I had never
>heard this opera before this evening, and I am quite impressed.  I have heard 
>that this piece really caused quite a stir at it's debut...But I don't see
>why it is all that shocking.  


Picture yourself a genteel middle- or upper-class operagoer in the early
years of this century.  You have a subscription ticket, and like to take
in your cultural uplift with the works of Verdi, Wagner, Donizetti et al
(even when the plot verges on the sordid, it all looks quite respectable
onstage).  Then you see an opera in which a young girl has the hots for
John the Baptist and rhapsodizes about his body; in which the girl's
stepfather has the hots for her and keeps begging her to do a striptease
for him; in which she finally does so, on condition she gets the head of
the prophet; and finally for 20 minutes you watch her fondle said head,
and essentially work herself into an orgasm over it.  Pretty raunchy
stuff.  It still is, I daresay.  Back when women were not publicly
admitted to have legs, and the carnal act was never alluded to in polite
society, it must have been mind-boggling.

>I guess that the one thing I really don't get is,
>what is the POINT of this thing?  I am used to Wagner and hence, looking for
>some kind of 'interpretation' for everything that I listen to...It seems to me
>that this is just a story, and I should just enjoy it as such.  Does anyone
>have any thoughts about this?

You're quite right, that there's a problem about this.  And the answer
(and the strongest thing one can say against the opera, which I hasten
to add I love) is that it has no point.  It exists to "shock the
bourgeois."  In that sense, one might even call it (descriptively, not
pejoratively) pornography, in the sense that its whole purpose is to "go
too far," and to titillate by doing so.  It does this brilliantly, of
course.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tomrice@netcom.com (Tom R. Rice)
Subject: Re: KDFC - a question.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:32:15 GMT

GQ.JNK@forsythe.stanford.edu (John Klemm 3-4420) writes:


>  But some of the others, including the witless,
>hapless and worthless Lou Sinclair, are beginning to do it too.

	My fave hate is Victor Ledine (sp), pretending to be
	erudite, but making the classic mistake which turns
	"Liebeslied" into "Love's Misfortune", and similar
	boo-boos.  

	There is a satellite network (The Beethoven Satellite Network)
	broadcast over KXPR in Sacramento after midnight, with a
	really good announcer, Peter van de Graf, who makes up
	very good programs, with a lot of stuff you never hear on
	the "mainstream" stations (lotsa rare oratorios and other
	singspiel stuff).  Being a _real_ night owl, I get this 
	during my return-home commute.

	But, let's face it, there'll never be anything like WQXR in the 
	1950's!

	trr 
-- 
"Start off every day with a smile and get it over with."  --W.C.Fields
Tom R. Rice   WB6BYH                   Holler Observatory - 
tomrice@netcom.com                     Longitude:  121 d  30 m  20 s W 
CIS: 71160,1122                        Latitude:    37 d  25 m  10 s N 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kldawkin@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Kiwi)
Subject: Chopin Ballades
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:57:48 GMT

Any recommendations for recordings of the Chopin Ballades?
I would prefer newer recordings, if at all possible...
has Perahia recorded them? If so, has anyone heard it?

Thanks in advance!

Kyle.
   ,------------------------------.,---------------------------------.   \._,
  /   7   ,7  o             o     / kldawkins@cayley.waterloo.edu    /   < /
 /   /--<'   /   /  ,  /   /     / kldawkins@descartes.waterloo.edu /     ' 
/  -'    `--'`--'`-'`-'`--'`-   / kldawkins@napier.waterloo.edu    /    /7 
`------------------------------'`---------------------------------'    //  NZ!
"Don't call me God. Call me Pope so I have something to aspire to."    '
From: hellerS@moravian.edu (sjh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Messeian recommendations?
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:54:19 GMT
Distribution: na

In <BxGFoD.wu@brunel.ac.uk> David.Martland@brunel.ac.uk (David Martland) writes:

>Paolo Leva writes in answer to Bob Martino:



>I don't know the Chung version of th Turangalila symphony, but would suggest that you
>look around for the Previn version on EMI. Unfortunalely (as far as I know)  they haven't
>seen fit to reisssue it on CD, so you'll need to look out for the LPs. It was for a very
>long time the version to have, although for some inexplicable reason EMI decided to put
>Simon Rattle's version (also good) onto CD in preference to Previn's.  If anyone wants
>to hassle EMI in the hope of getting the Previn available again, they will have my support.

>I just hope the grooves on my LP don't wear out!

I have the LPs of Ozawa (not very good) and Previn (pretty good), and the
CDs of Rattle (not exciting enough for me and the acoustics aren't that
good), Salonen (absolutely superb, except the onde is painfully brilliant)
and the Chung, which overall, is probably the best. I still find the
Salonen remarkable for its clarity and bite (the percussion is
electrifying), and if your ears, speakers and neighbors can stand the onde,
this is a rightous performance and recording. 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben)
Subject: Re: Bernard Shaw quotes (was: Brahms)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:03:09 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <12NOV199213190783@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel) writes:
>In article <BxM4Gt.Dtn@cmcl2.nyu.edu>, tony@cns.nyu.edu writes...
>>I can't resist adding George Bernard Shaw's view of Brahms to this (quoting
>>frommemory): "Brahms is like a gigantic baby, who insists on dressing himself
>>up as Bach or Handel, and making a prolonged and intolerable noise".
>> 
>GBS also had a couple gems re: Wagner.  He reported to a friend that he had
>just heard Wagner's Ring, "and lived".  And he also maintained that "Wagner's
>music is not as bad as it sounds."
>
>There must be many other memorable quotes about music, composers, etc.
>I'd like to hear others.
>
>ron

  I recall something that Rossini said after looking at the score of Berlioz'
Symphonie Fantastique :

"It's a good thing this isn't music."

Mike Hurben
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: HAYDN
Date: 6 Nov 1992 09:49:29 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Ian Murray (ian.murray@synapse.org) wrote:
: They say he was one if not the most prolific composers of the
: period...perhaps he was a "formula" man who found his niche and
: profitted from it at the cost of quality.  Everything I've heard sounds
: the same to me. 

This to me is a fairly apt description of Mozart.

For Haydn try late symphonies, late string quartets, masses, 7 last
words of Christ, Seasons.
From: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: re: Subject: Bruckner = Bad Vibes?
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:29:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: kadsma.1992Nov6.192952.22596
Reply-To: pajerek@kadsma.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Telstar

In article <17148@mindlink.bc.ca> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:
>The reference to the Scandinavian musician becoming ill or feeling nauseated
>after playing Bruckner shortly after WW II was found in a discography of
>Bruckner published in High Fidelity many years ago.
>
>For me, Bruckner has his moments, some of which are truly extraordinary, like
>the horn passages at the beginning of the 6th symphony. But on the whole I
>find listening to his music like watching a glacier move...it's boring as
>hell. I've never heard a live performance of a Bruckner symphony which
>aroused me out of my lethargy and recorded ones which rise above the level of
>monotony are few and far between.
>
>

Bruckner is certainly not for everyone, especially the last two
symphonies. But as often in such cases, there are rewards to be
found that are unavailable elsewhere. An obvious case: the slow
final movement of the 9th symphony; I can't think of another symphonic
movement like it, though Sibelius' 'Tapiola' is perhaps a contender.


Don Pajerek

Standard disclaimers apply.
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: HAYDN
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:19:26 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <BxG170.34L@cen.ex.ac.uk> gordon@dcs.exeter.ac.uk (Gordon Watson) writes:
>>>>>> On 6 Nov 92 08:01:45 GMT, hudu@well.sf.ca.us (Scott Marley) said:

>Scott> Just to take two obvious examples, Haydn was depending on his
>Scott> audience hearing the key changes and therefore following his
>Scott> modulations; I doubt that one person in a thousand hears key
>Scott> changes now, 200 years of increasing chromaticism later.  And
>Scott> Haydn was also counting on his audience following the
>Scott> forms--sonata form, theme and variations, whatever.

>Scott> A lot of
>Scott> the pleasure of listening to Haydn lurks in the way he leads
>Scott> you to expect one thing and gives you another, but if you
>Scott> aren't paying close enough attention to the shape of the music
>Scott> to have your expectations raised as to what you're about to
>Scott> hear next, you can't enjoy the difference of what you actually
>Scott> *do* hear next.

>I like Haydn, but I'm one of your 999 persons out of a 1000 who can't
>hear key changes.  Can someone tell me and the other 998 how to learn?

It's hard to teach, but easy to learn -- if you have the time.  If you've
listened to a lot of sonata-form movements (i.e., first movements of
symphonies, quartets, etc. as well as many of the slow movements and
finales) you may have caught on to some of the regularities.  One of these
is that the first half often gets repeated (not so much in slow movements).
Now, the first half will usually end in a very stable fashion: a big
close with lots of final-sounding music, thump, thump, thump.       

This moment is very interesting: the music has closed, but not in the
home key.  To start the movement all over again, one must either wrench
back to the home key (which sometimes happens) or make a transition that
destabilizes the new key in favor of the original one.  Listen to that
moment in a few pieces.  Pieces in minor keys are usually the easiest,
because the "new" key is usually in major.  Good starters: Beethoven 5th,
Mozart G minor (40th), Schubert Unfinished.

Another good place to hear this is in minuets, which also have a first-half
 repeat (and a second-half repeat).  There's usually less of a transition
back to the home key htan in some sonata movements; the shift is pretty 
direct.  

If you can listen to a tune and identify the tonic, i.e., the "home" note
that the tune is pushing toward, then you're equipped to pick all this up.
Of course, it *does* take some practice.  But once you get going, you'll
notice when the composer does change key, and how.  (Think of stability
and instability, of closure and lack of closure, of passages that could
stand on their own, and passages that obviously lead to something else.)

Enjoy!

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Subject: Re: Messeian recommendations?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 16:19:16 GMT

> Christopher Colby writes:
>
> The Turangalila is another one of Messaien's most well-known pieces.  It is
> longer than the Quartet by about 30 minutes or so.  It is also scored for a
> large orchestra, piano, and the "ondes martenot" -- the weird electric
> instrument in the Beach Boys' song "Good Vibrations" that does the
> glissando (or portamento, or whatever).
>


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the instrument in the Beach Boys piece
is a therimin, not an Ondes Martenot.
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: ncole@nyx.cs.du.edu (Noah Cole)
Subject: I GOT MY NYE TICKETS!
Organization: Macalester College, St. Paul Minnesota USA
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 15:56:13 GMT

I woke up at 9:30 here and came down to my room to call TicketBastard. My fried
from Colorado said thayt he got through at 9, er 10:09 EST and they cut him off
after they got his CC Number but before they got his Phone number.. *hmmm*.

But, I got through around 9:40 and got 4 tickets.  It was busy for awhile; I used the NH Number 603-626-5000 without many problems.  4 Tickets = $99.300 (oops
$99.30). Oh yeah, 9:40 here = 10:40 EST.

Sop, seeya all at NYE!

-Noah

PS: Sorry my editor sucks and I can't edit!
--
Noah Cole               "I believe in the future        NCOLE@MACALSTR.EDU
Macalester College      there will be no war. Maybe     ncole@nyx.cs.du.edu
St. Paul, MN 55105      not in my lifetime but in    cncole@coos.dartmouth.edu
612-696-7388            yours"- Paul Simon         aj909@cleveland.freenet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: jamie@access.digex.com (James Treworgy)
Subject: Mystery tape from '92: Identify, anyone?
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:42:35 GMT

Hey kids,

I have this tape which in a flurry of tape trading ended up alone, unmarked,
unknown.  Here's the set, if anyone knows what it is please let me know! 
Thanks... -- Jamie

Golgi, Uncle Pen, Stash, Lizards, Landlady, Fee, NICU, All things,
Foam, A-Train, Bowie.

Bye!
-- 
James A. Treworgy
jamie@access.digex.com