HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Thursday, 12 Nov 1992 10:31:58 PST
From: Charles Young <YOUNG@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: How to tell a REAL buyer's agent
 <1992Nov9.175741.1035@donner.SanDiego.NCR.COM>
 <1992Nov11.011205.12996@mccc.edu> <1992Nov11.184210.14010@dg-rtp.dg.com>

In article <1992Nov11.184210.14010@dg-rtp.dg.com>, eliot@chutney.rtp.dg.com
(Topher Eliot) says:
>
>I've heard that buyers who get real buyers agents working for them sometimes
>can take advantage of the benefits of such, and then at the last minute get
>the listing agent to split the commision being payed by the seller, just as
>if the buyer's agent had been a "selling" agent all along.  It makes me think
>that if I ever list a house for sale through an RE agent again (not that I
>think it's a good idea in general), I will put a clause in my contract stating
>that if the buyer is represented by a buyer's agent at any point in the
>negotiations, the commision I pay will go down by 50%.  Let that seller, who
>is benefiting from the buyer's agency, REALLY pay for it!
>
>Note that I have nothing against RE agents as people, I've received fine
>treatment from some of them.  But I'm convinced that the industry is
>inherently
>inefficient, with little market force to make it efficient (sort of like
>health care...)  So I prefer to opt out if I can (which I did quite
>succesfully
>on my latest purchase & sale).
>
>--
>Topher Eliot             Data General DG/UX Systems Administration Development
>(919) 248-6371                                             eliot@dg-rtp.dg.com
>Obviously, I speak for myself, not for DG.
>misc.consumers.house archivist.  Send mail to house-archive@dg-rtp.dg.com
>"I can understand Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, but I can't understand
>mutually
>recursive inline functions."  --anon.
The buyer's agent contracts that I have seen say the buyer will pay the
agent a certain amount for services rendered. There is a stipulation that
if this agent can collect compensation from another party (ie seller)
then buyer's payment will go down correspondingly. This change does not
affect the legal responsibility of agent to buyer.

In other words, if buyer's agent can get commission from seller, buyer
doesn't have to pay extra. [He's already paying throught the price.]

Bottom line is the agents want to get paid, and don't care whose pocket
it comes out of. Even if the seller is the only one writing a check, the
buyer is surely paying for part of it through the price. At least here
in California, agency relationship (and therefore fiduciary responsility)
is independent of who is writing the check. If you must use an agent, find
a good and conscientious one!
From: wae@aero.org (William A. Emanuelsen)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Gas logs in your fireplace
Followup-To: misc.consumers.house
Date: 9 Nov 1992 15:03:16 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org

In article <FAUNT.92Nov6113544@dustbin.cisco.com> faunt@dustbin.cisco.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS 415-688-8269) writes:
>A question I've had for a while:
>Why are gas pipes requires to be black iron?  Why not galvanized?

I didn't think it was a requirement, just traditional, so that you can
tell a gas pipe from a water pipe.  It wouldn't be a whole lot of fun
to unscrew a water pipe and end up with a major gas leak.  Or if it was
stuck, perhaps use a cutting torch on it...BOOM!
-- 
William A. Emanuelsen    I degaussed my girlfriend and I'm
wae@aerospace.aero.org      just not attracted to her anymore.
From: dans@danix.UUCP (Dan Simoes)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Info on renting/buying
Date: 13 Nov 92 09:35:49 GMT
Organization: Danix Consulting
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


I'm not sure if this is the right group, but does anyone have any ideas
as to how to avoid buying a house right away, but without renting?
I'll be getting married in February, and I don't want to buy a house just
now, since I'm not sure where we want to end up living.  I really hate the
idea of renting, since the money just goes into someone else's pocket, and
you have nothing to show for it.

The obvious solution is rent to buy...but what if I decide not to buy?

Again, sorry if this is out of line for this group!

| Dan |
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne)
Subject: Re: How to tell a REAL buyer's agent
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:48:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.191727.15670@tessi.com> allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) writes:
>In Oregon, every realtor is a Seller's agent in that it is law
>that every realtor must represent the best interests of the
>seller, not the buyer.  Exception to this is the realtor who
>is paid by a buyer to represent the best interests of the
>buyer.  Prospective buyer's can indeed sign a contract to have
>a realtor represent the buyer and in this case, the realtor
>is no longer bounded by Oregon law to represent the seller first
>and foremost.

This is true in most states.  Since under a commission split, both agents
are paid by the seller (under contract), they both have a fiduciary responsi-
bility to the seller (not disclosing anything that would be a detriment to
the seller, e.g.).

In Ohio, the buyer may obtain an agent to either of two ways--one way is to
sign a contract that their agent represents them (and not the seller)--in
which case the agent is not privy to information from the listing agent--and
sometimes accepts a smaller percentage of the total commission as well.

And (2) the buyer can directly contact an agent--and pay that agent for 
services performed.  Unfortunately, most people want someone else to pay
for the services and so this option is not used very often.

Charlie


Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: mja@philabs.philips.com (Michael Amato)
Subject: Re: R-values
Originator: mja@hercules
Reply-To: mja@philabs.philips.com (Michael Amato)
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:45:51 GMT


In article <1992Nov10.034042.8341@wixer.cactus.org>, guppy@wixer.cactus.org (Jennifer Mery) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov9.152233.26690@philabs.philips.com> mja@philabs.philips.com (Michael Amato) writes:
|> 
|> >Do you mean the vertical knee walls that fill in between the 8' ceiling
|> >joists and the cathedral ceiling? If they are exposed to attic space then
|> >insulate with normal wall insulation. The best is to use 5 1/2" R-21, but
|> >unless you have 2x6 construction this will be tricky. Then you would want to
|> >use 3 1/2" R13. For more R value put insulation board over it.
|> >If the walls are not accessible you will have to go with a blown-in product.
|> 
|> Well our vaulted ceiling is about 8 ' at the short end, and then 9' or
|> ten feet at the other end.  The top has insulation on it, but the
|> triangle shaped sides (perpendicular to the flat attic floor) dont have
|> any insulation. they are vertical, so I don't know how to make the
|> insulation sitck on them. 
|> 
|> Maybe I could nail up styprofoam panels cut to size? otherwise I don't
|> know how to keep it from falling down.

OK Jennifer, you can:

1. Use these little pieces of wire that are slightly larger than the space between the studs. They push in and stick into the studs. These are usually used
to keep floor insulation in place when being installed from a basement or crawl
space.

2. Use rigid insulation that fits between the studs.

3. Use fiberglass insulation and rigid insulation as a cover (Fiberglass 
insulation may settle over time).

4. Use chicken wire.

|> 
|> 
|> jam
|> -- 
|> ==============================================================================
|> Jennifer Mery |
|> Austin, Texas | guppy@wixer.cactus.org
|> ==============================================================================

-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Amato  DoD#0639 | "If pro is the opposite of con,       |
| mja@philabs.philips.com | then what is Congress"? - Will Rogers |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
From: randy@rls.UUCP (randall l. smith)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: OK to pound nails into concrete blocks?
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:21:48 GMT
Organization: The Internet

In article <13805@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
> I have cement blocks for my basement wall, and would like to hang things
> from the wall.  Is there a certain kind of nail that can be used on walls
> like this? Is it better to pound nails into the joints- where the mortar
> is- or into the blocks themselves? If nails are not recommened, is there
> some kind of bolt that can be used>

All the recommendations I've seen are fine but I didn't see anyone address
your question regarding pounding nails into the joints or block. 

Always pound or screw into the joints.  Putting anything into the block
invites cracking and eventual disintegration of the block.

Just go to your local friendly hardware store and look at all their
gadgets for attaching things to cinder block.  Ask for help, they are
often quite knowledgeable.  To me, this process is a perfect substitute
for my childhood toy store days. :-)  <age 37 and counting backwards>

Cheers!

- randy

uucp: randy@rls.uucp
bang: <backbone>!osu-cis!rls!randy
inet: rls!randy@cis.ohio-state.edu
The bold print giveth and the fine print taketh away.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor)
Subject: Re: Locksets - brand recommendations
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:29:46 GMT


>>Schlage - Best
>>Weiser
>>Kwikset
>>Weslock
>>Yale    - Worst
>Schlage isn't as good as it was 20 years ago, but Schlage, Corbin, and
>Russwin are my favorites. 

BEST is Best :-).

-Mike
Xref: sparky misc.consumers.house:14273 misc.invest.real-estate:904
From: harp@isi.edu (Brian Harp)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Control of escrow accounts
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:25:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: USC Information Sciences Institute


In article <1498@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM>, lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow) writes:
> During one of the many discussions of  home financing and re-financing,
> I believe a couple of people mentioned they did not pay their taxes
> and insurance through the usual escrow accounts.  How is this done?
> Don't the lending institutions require it?  Or is this something you have
> to ask for and qualify for?  I would be interested in choosing this option,
> if possible, when I re-finance.
> 

I think it depends on the lender.  We only put 10% down on our house and our
taxes and insurance are not impounded.  PMI is included in our interest rate so
we didn't have to impound any money for PMI either.  

It doesn't hurt to ask whether you have that option.


Brian                      o
 Harp                       \
                          \0/
       ||==================|=====||
       ||-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-/\+-+-+||
       ||=================\=\====||
       ||                        ||
       ||                        ||
       ||                        ||

USC/ISI, 4676 Admiralty Way, Marina del Rey, CA 90292
Phone: 310/822-1511, Fax: 310/823-6714 


--
--------------------------------------------

Brian                      o
 Harp                       \
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas S. Rand)
Subject: Re: Finishing the basement. What to do with the support poles??
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: usa
Date: 9 Nov 92 11:30:26

In article <BxAx9n.1px@fc.hp.com> ec@fc.hp.com (Edgar_Circenis) writes:

   Steven Bellovin (smb@ulysses.att.com) wrote:
   > In article <Bx3zyz.34p@fc.hp.com>, ec@fc.hp.com (Edgar_Circenis) writes:
   > > I know it's too late for doing this now, and I also know that a lot of
   > > people probably wouldn't approve, but when I finished my basement, the
   > > walls were placed such that the posts were inside of them.
   > 
   > It's not a matter of approving or not -- in our basement, one of
   > the poles is in more or less the exact center of the total space.
   > If you put a wall there -- and whoever finished the basement didn't --
   > you'd end up with much less usable space.

   Well, sometimes it is.  I wans't referring to the physical arrangement
   of walls, but the fact that if you build the post into a wall, you then
   lose access to the post.

   Some people think this is important because these posts are adjustable,
   which may come in handy if your house settles in an unfriendly way.
   Personally, I don't think it will happen.

The posts aren't always adjustable.  I believe that the ones installed
when the house is built would tend not to be.  We had an adjustable
lolly column in the house I grew up in and I assume it was installed
for settling.  It was too close to the foundation wall to be a normal
structural support.


--
Douglas S. Rand <drand@osf.org>		OSF/Motif Dev.
Snail:         11 Cambridge Center,  Cambridge,  MA  02142
Disclaimer:    I don't know if OSF agrees with me... let's vote on it.
Amateur Radio: KC1KJ
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas S. Rand)
Subject: Re: Jacuzzi baths vs others?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
	<1992Nov11.175955.22335@donner.SanDiego.NCR.COM>
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:10:06

In article <1992Nov11.175955.22335@donner.SanDiego.NCR.COM> davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord) writes:

   In article <sands-101192111506@90.10.20.76> sands@apple.com (Michael Sands) writes:
   >We are remodeling and get an opportunity to add a jetted bath tub to our
   >master bathroom.  Jacuzzi has a patent on their jets and charge a $800
   >premium on their baths because the jets are better. 
   >
   >Is this true?  Are the jets really that much different?

   I haven't used one, but the recesses for the jets look like they
   would be a magnet for soap scum, gunk, and mildew. The also look
   like they would be impossible to clean. Anyone know who's actually
   used one?

   Also I would be interested in knowing what the installation is likely
   to run on one of these tubs. Do they require a separate electrical
   circuit? I assume a GFCI is required. I'd also like to know how you
   attach the drain when the house is on a slab.

A GFI is required,  normally you put a GFCI outlet and plug in the
jacuzzi.  I'm not sure if you are required to have a separate circuit,
but it would be a very good idea as I believe the pump draws quite
alot of current.
--
Douglas S. Rand <drand@osf.org>		OSF/Motif Dev.
Snail:         11 Cambridge Center,  Cambridge,  MA  02142
Disclaimer:    I don't know if OSF agrees with me... let's vote on it.
Amateur Radio: KC1KJ
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: stevez@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (steven.a.zubatkin)
Subject: Re: Finishing the basement. What to do with the support poles??
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:53:43 GMT

Another suggestion (if it hasn't already been mentioned; I haven't
followed this thread completely).

We carpeted our support poles (the ones not hidden inside walls) with
the same carpeting as on the floor.  It looks great and provides 
cushioning in case one of the kids runs into it :-).

Steve Zubatkin
Morristown, NJ
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: How to tell a REAL buyer's agent
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:06:23 GMT

prange@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Henry Prange) writes:

>Irrespective of what contracts or laws my suggest, a realtor primarily works
>for the realtor, not the buyer or the seller. It is to the realtor's distinct
>advantage to arrange a sale in the least time possible to minimize overhead
>and maximize return for time invested. Thus, the best strategy is to convince
>the seller to undervalue their home and convince any buyer to pay whatever
>the asking price may be. A few $$ lost in comission by selling low is easily
>compensated for by the increased volume. Bottom line: the realtor is the
>realtor's friend; let both the buyer and seller beware.

Henry, have you recently gotten burned in selling your home through an
agent?  I was curious as to why you posted such an anti-realtor message.
I found our agent (who sold our home) to be extremely helpful in not only
getting a good asking price for our home, but also in selling it at that
price.  The agent we chose was the ONLY one of 4 that we interviewed who
agreed that our house was worth what we wanted to put it on the market at.
Additionally, once the buyer offered full pop on the house, our realtor
worked like a woman possessed in getting comps. to the bank appraiser when
he first valued our house 10k less than that selling price.  We stuck to our
guns on the asking price after doing our own homework and our agent worked
her fanny off getting the appraiser to recognize that price as not too high.

I agree with you that both the buyer and seller should beware, but I don't
think all agents are as cutthroat as you *seem* to make them to be in your
message.

allen
From: steve@presto.ig.com (Steve Barnhouse)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Cleaning Fireplace Insert
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:47:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: IntelliGenetics, Inc., Mountain View, California USA

In article <1608@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> bsmith@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (ROBERT SMITH) writes:
>
>Anyway, I had forgotten how dirty the fireplace was.  More than just ashes, it
>has a lot of black soot on the inside.  Any suggestions on how to clean this? 
>In particular, the glass door is so dirty that you can't see inside the
>fireplace.  I'd like to be able to see the fire when we have one!  Thanks.

Oven Cleaner works well for cleaning glass doors on fireplace inserts.
For cleaning the inside, use a wire brush.  Wear a mask so you dont'
inhale the dust.  If the fireplace is dirty, then the chimney probably
is too.  You can buy brushes that fit the flue or you can tie a weight
and some rags or brushes to a rope and let it down the chimney from
the roof.

--steve                                          steve@presto.ig.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Re: GFCI question
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 01:36:02 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <10885@wrgate.wr.tek.com>, davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) writes:
> While a GFCI will indeed protect outlets downstream, whether they be two
> prong or three prong, a GFCI will not convert a two prong wiring system
> into a three prong wiring system.  If you want to use three prong
> outlets, that third prong must ultimately conduct back to earth ground
> and do so independently of your white wire power return.  So, if you
> don't have that third wire wired in your series of outlets, you can't change
> your outlets to three prong outlets simply by adding a GFCI.  A GFCI
> will make them two prong outlets safe, but it won't make em three pronged.

Depends on what you mean by ``use three prong outlets''.  The NEC and
the CEC explicitly permit use of three-prong outlets downstream of
ungrounded GFCIs.  See, for example,210-7(d), Exception, in the 1990
NEC:  ``Existing nongrounding-type receptacles shall be permitted to
be replaced with groundint-type receptacles where supplied through
a ground-fault circuit-interrupter-type receptacle.''

Now -- you're right that the third prong isn't grounded.  And that
will cause trouble if you wanted to use certain kinds of fluorescent
lamps, or surge protectors.  But it's legal to use three-prong outlets
in that situation, as Chris and I wrote in the FAQ.
From: AMILLSAP@cmsa.gmr.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Hardwood floor over concrete slab ?
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:00:46 GMT
Organization: GM Research Labs

In article <35960126@hpindda.cup.hp.com>
stellaw@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Stella Kwong) writes:

>
>
>
>     I am thinking of having a hardwood floor in the kitchen and the
>     nook area. (total about 250 sq.ft).
>
>     Is it a good idea to put hardwood floor in the kitchen? Can I
>     clean the hardwood floor with water every other week?
>
>     Also, is there any problem putting hardwood floor on top of
>     concrete slab? I know hardwood floor can be glued instead of
>     nailed, but my contractor told me that the moisture from the
>     concrete slab could create bubbles underneath the hardwood
>     and eventually it would damage the hardwood floor.
>
>     Is this true? Is hardwood floor over concrete slab possible?
>
>
The National Oak Flooring Manufacturers Association (NOFMA) has a number of
reports available on these kinds of things.  In particular they have a nice
twelve page document on installing oak flooring which contains complete
instructions including those for installing over a slab.  Also available are
reports on, Finishing Hardwood Flooring, Flooded Floors (i.e. repairing
flooded floors), Safeguards, Wood Floor Care Guide, etc.

The reports cost 10-50 cents each, but when I called they just mailed me a
a couple - no charge.  The charge may only be for dealers buying in larger
quantities.

Their phone number is : (901) 526-5016

Their address is:    P.O. Box 3009, Memphis TN, 38173-0009.

By the way, the brochure titled "Installing Hardwood Flooring" states:
  "Should you encounter a situation not covered here, or have additional
   questions, we invite you to contact the Technical Department of NOFMA
   for assistance. 901/526-5016 8:30 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. Central Time Monday
   through Friday."

Hope this helps

Arnie Millsap
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: GFCI question
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 19:02:34 CST
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

michael@sunbeam.ksc.nasa.gov (Michael D. Myjak x7-3286) writes:

[ GFCI FUNCTION THREAD ALERT!!! GFCI FUNCTION THREAD ALERT!!! ]
             [ SET KILLFILES TO MAXIMUM!!! ]

> Now, on to pick a nit: a GFCI in a circuit will protect *all* outlets
> on that circuit. In other words, a GFCI can go anywhere in the circuit
> and will provide protection to all devices in that circuit. Thats
> because the GFI is sensing a current difference between the hot and
> neutral...  which there shouldn't be unless current is being grounded
> somewhere elsein the circuit. Typically, GFCI circuit breakers are set
> to trip at .005 amps.

No, a GFCI will *not* protect all outlets in the circuit, only 
the ones downstream from it (on the side away from the fuse/breaker
box). A GFCI *cannot* sense a current difference that's not flowing
through it!

Current being shunted to ground upstream of the GFCI will make no
effect whatsoever on it; it won't notice or trip.

If you have some new breakthrough theories of how electricity
and GFCIs work, post those. A number of us, I'm sure, will
be *real* interested.

You may have the trip level right, though.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house