HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Language Lists (was Re: Work in Progress: Proposal
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:04:27 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

palmer@cco.caltech.edu (David Palmer) writes:

>I like what Gene Wolfe does in his 'Book of the New Sun' (read it!).

So do I. Unfortunately, I don't have Gene's command of language, nor do I
have the years of research and polishing the material he had (if you want to
get a feel for just how much work he did making those books feel effortless,
track down a copy of CASTLE OF THE OTTER, either in the (very expensive and
rare) Zeising Brothers edition, the not so expensive SF Book Club edition,
or in the upcoming Tor release (it'll be an omnibus edition combined with
some other shorter works of his).

Much as I like it, though, I think the New Sun books are as much as exercise
in "language as literature" as they are novels, and that's not really the
intent of my writing at this point. Those books are also fairly tough to get
involved in because of the language, and I know a number of people who don't
like them because of it. They're not as accessible to the less-advanced
reader who enjoys language for its own sake.

(note, before you yell at me. This is not a criticism. I like them just
the way they are. I've got a couple of volumes that Gene autographed
for me at Conspiracy that I cherish, and every so often I nudge him to
write something for OtherRealms, which so far he's successfully
avoided. Sigh.  But they're a style of book that'd be a very tough sell
for a new author (IMHO), not to mention that it's an exceptionally difficult
writing style to do correctly, much less successfully. Maybe when I have
half a dozen books under my belt and have a better feel for the process)


>As for forks, who uses forks?  They are a recent invention:

Very true. It's just an example. (my people use knives and fingers, just
like people did up until the last few hundred years)

>Of course, many of us are not Gene Wolfe, and don't know English
>as well as he does.  Here's a tip from the White Queen (?)--If
>you don't know the English for something, say it in French.

That technique makes me crazy, because it tends to come across as the author
trying to blow one past the reader so the reader doesn't figure out he's
being spoofed. I read a mystery by, I believe, Dorothy Sayers many years ago
where she gave out a key clue to the readers IN LATIN. Without it, any
chance of figuring out what was going on was hopeless. To me, that sort of
stuff is a bad cheat, and I'm out to entertain the readers, not cheat them.

(which is not to say you can't use this stuff as an etymological background
here and there, but I don't want to depend on it).


-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!

          Painted emblems of a race, all accurst in days of yore,
       Each from his accustomed place steps into the world once more.
From: chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Work in Progress:Magic
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:35:23 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:

>Meanwhile, I hit paydirt today with a book on Aztec food and medicine; it deals
>with magic in great detail, including the tripartite soul that was an important
>part of Aztec religion.

Title? Author? ISBN? 

-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms

    I believe there should be a constitutional amendment outlawing the
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst")
Subject: Electronic publication 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:59:34 +0000


In article <1992Aug31.101259.9684@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:

>
>
>
>I've got the info (temporarily mislaid--I'll find it after I wake up, no
>doubt) on ClariNet (sp?), a plan to publish reprint short stories and
>reimburse authors depending on how many subscribers ($5.00 a month) to the
>service download their stories.
>
>Anyone got an opinion on whether this would put your story in the public
>domain?
>
>
>Bonita Kale
>
>
I don't think it would if you had a clear copyright notice on the story.
At least it would not appear to for English authors, copyright comes into
being on publication, and showing a copy of the story to my mother counts
as publication.  I think the rules are different in the States, and you
may find yourself with a problem there.

If I have copyright in England, I have copyright in all the Berne
Convention countries.  It then takes a specific act to release the
document into the public domain.  Putting it onto a subscription service
where one is getting a fee for each download, would not amount, in my
opinion to such an act.  The fact that a fee is payable to the author
in respect of the number of downloads, would indicate that the
document is not in the Public Domain.

Nigel


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Self-Promotion
Date: 27 Aug 92 07:22:21 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

A friend of mine who's taken one of your writing courses has just released a
book.  I thought I'd plug it for him.  (Apologies if someone else has already
covered this).  Don DeBrandt's SF book _The Quicksilver Screen_ was released by
Del Rey this month.  He did a great job writing the book, and he's also used
the local fan network to remind all local booksellers to get his book.  He had
a signing at White Dwarf last Sunday.  I don't really know how much was
intentional promotion and how much was good intentions from Vancouver fandom.

Robert J. Sawyer from Toronto gave an excellent talk on self promo at
ConText'91.  He went so far as to produce 200 mock up copies of his first book
to send out to reviewers.  Most review columns don't bother with first time
books because they never get copies until the book is released.  By the time
the review is published, the book is gone from the shelves.  I think I have his
network address around here if somebody want to try for contact...

Sawyer spent most of his advance promoting his own book, but he feels it was
worth it.  He believes he got more attention because of it (and I tend to
agree).  Hopefully, if the publisher notices his book's been noticed, the
publisher will spend more on promotion for his next book.

It might be a worthwhile investment for a starting author.

Alan

Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: scott@apollo.HP.COM (Scott Southworth)
Subject: Re: Horror Magazines 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:12:19 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

Hello,
The address for The Gila Queen's Guide to the Markets is
PO Box 97, Newton NJ 07860-0097.  The subscription rate
is $24 -- make the check payable to Kathryn Ptacek. 

I have found this to be a pretty good magazine on the markets.
It focuses on different genres in each issue, which means that
you may have to wait several months to get info on the genre
you are interested in. But every issue does contain some updates
that may apply to any genre, and back issues are usually
available. 

Regards,
Scott Southworth 
(Pen name: Scott Julian) 

Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Date: Wed,  2 Sep 1992 15:51:16 -0400 
From: Edwin Huang <eh1s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: short story writing vs. novel writing
Distribution: world

I believe that  short stories are important for an aspiring novelist not
only because  of the short term satisfaction of completing something,
but because of the fact that you have completed something.   A short
story is very useful in  stopping a writer from rambling on and on. You
start on a novel that you want to get published and pretty soon you're
working on a dectology to submit to your publisher cause you just aren't
done with the story yet.

Also there is nothing from stopping your short story to become part of
your novel. In science fiction, both V. Vinge and Glenn Cook have both
built novels around their short stories or visa versa. I consider short
stories a way of starting small and working your way to higher
aspirations.  Perhaps the scope of the short story is too small in your
eyes, but  I believe one has to be able to work with small scopes as
well as large ones to be a decent writer.

-ed
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Pulphouse magazines and SF Age info
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:41:27 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale) writes:

>Do you have an editorial address for Tomorrow?

The address for submissions is:

	A.J. Budrys, editor
	Tomorrow Speculative Fiction
	Box 6038
	Evanston, IL 60204

Normal formats/requirements apply (SASE, etc). Dean says the key word is
Speculative, and that Ajay is actively interested in working with newer
writers and not just borrowing from the Analog stable. The focus of the zine
is sort of Analog-esque.


-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!
From: Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: First one to correct the typo wins
Date: 29 Aug 92 08:00:46 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Actually, I meant six months for the initial wait.  Maybe three would do.  My
logic has been that if a magazine keeps it for more than six weeks, they might
buy it, but once it's been gone six months it's been buried.  Normally I get
responses before three months has gone by, but I have had a few things
disapear.  I don't think it profits a writer to badger an editor immediately at
the time one would expect a response.

BTW don't trust stated response times, they are policy not fact.  I recommend a
magazine called PULPHOUSE REPORT (which I'm sure Chuq knows) for up to date
market listings in SF and good response time statistics.

Yeah, maybe it is a slip.  At least I can straighten it a bit.

Alan
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Science vs. story in SF (Was: World Creation)
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:19:15 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

I should be posting another "Work in Progress" item (and will, I hope, a little
later today, but the discussion on technology & science in SF has provoked me
into going into my dreaded Literary Theorist mode...

Modern SF is a hybrid of two very old literary forms, one intellectual and the
other popular. The "anatomy" or "Menippean satire" is a study of the world as
seen in terms of one dominant idea. Its concerns are the follies of
scholarship, the ideal society, the moral aspects of language, the importance
of documents as objects in themselves. Anatomy is not much concerned with
character or plot, so events may move slowly while cardboard characters debate
the issues of the tale.

The popular genre is the heroic romance, whose plot is usually some kind of
perilous quest to achieve a restoration of the obscure hero to his proper
place--the throne. Here we have travels, strange beasts, ordeals, sexual
threats, and everything else that makes prime time TV so stimulating.

"Highbrow" SF tends to be more anatomical than romantic. Examples are 1984,
Cat's Cradle, More's original Utopia, and much of Le Guin. "Lowbrow" SF goes
for the thud and blunder of romance, in which interstellar technology exists
only so some bozo can put 3 feet of steel into some other bozo's innards after
a journey of 4700 light-years.

So the science or technology in an SF story really depends on how seriously the
author wants to examine social and moral effects of the technology. In most
modern mass-market fantasy and science fiction, that's not a major concern; the
author falls back instead on a familiar power-fantasy plot and leaves it at
that.
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: when is a goat a goat (was: Language Lists)
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:57:32 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
Summary: "Great Pan is being used to fry goat meat!" --Emily Dickinson (not!)
Keywords: SF names
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

>So it doesn't particularly have to be a goat, but a good goat-like thing
>would work pretty well (it has to be domesticated, because you don't always
>have time to go out and find a reasonable sacrifice when you need one.
>deadlines, you know).

Of course, to readers in our culture, a goat has not only intrinsic 
characteristics, but also a heavy load of symbolism.  Regardless of
whether you are trying to lose this or avoid losing it when you create 
and name your alien goat-oid, you have to stay aware of it.

Even if your animal model is lighter in symbolism, the name you give
it will resonate into an image.  Reading Larry Niven's stuff, I conjure
up a culturally directed idea of what a chirpsithra or kdatlyno must be 
like; if he'd called them furfurals and blxtfs, I'd have thought of 
something completely different, even if their descriptions and actions 
remained the same.

Joe
"The pallid pimp of the dead-line/The enervate of the pen" --Robert Service
From: tmhoff@oogoody.Corp.Sun.COM (Todd Hoff)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Science vs. story in SF (Was: World Cre
Date: 30 Aug 1992 01:54:15 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: tmhoff@oogoody.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: oogoody.corp.sun.com

>Personally, I have some trouble deciding which of the two forms
>I loathe most.  Marooned on a desert island with but one book,
>would I prefer Eddings or Le Guin?  Rather throw myself to the
>sharks. 

Definitely Eddings. His books are thicker so you can use them as a 
pillow, weapon, or paperweight. Very versatile. Besides he writes the 
best characters in SF, characters I could spend some alone time with
on a desert isle.
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Balance of Technology and Story
Date: 31 Aug 92 07:42:20 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Curtis Yarvin comments that my definition of Speculative Fiction seems to
exclude space opera, and excellent anthropological speculation like Leguin's
_The Dispossessed_.  _The Dispossessed_ would not be the same story if one set
it in its closest historical analog, Australia.  The book deals with a
seperation of ideologies which is only possible in the context LeGuin
created--thus _The Dispossessed_ rates as good Soft Science Fiction.

Good Space Opera, like much of Lois McMaster Bujold's work, falls into the same
category.  E. E. Doc Smith's work would border on Fantasy by my definition, as
would Star Wars.  All these qualify under my definition of Speculative Fiction
as stories which depend on a unique speculative element.

A funny thing: many people seem to think true SF has to be about hardware.  The
truth is, good SF is about anything which changes society, whether it's
teleporter booths or Martian Philosophy.  A younger member of my writers' group
insists that science fiction isn't science fiction without spaceships.  He
hasn't been able to give a label to one of our member's novels, set on a
post-enviromental-cataclysm earth 6000 years in the future.  I wonder what
he'll come up with?


Alan
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: curtis@berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Subject: Re: Balance of Technology and Story
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:16:39 GMT

In article <14745@mindlink.bc.ca> Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay) writes:
>
>Curtis Yarvin comments that my definition of Speculative Fiction seems to
>exclude space opera, and excellent anthropological speculation like Leguin's
>_The Dispossessed_.  _The Dispossessed_ would not be the same story if one set
>it in its closest historical analog, Australia.  The book deals with a
>seperation of ideologies which is only possible in the context LeGuin
>created--thus _The Dispossessed_ rates as good Soft Science Fiction.
>
>Good Space Opera, like much of Lois McMaster Bujold's work, falls into the
>same category.  E. E. Doc Smith's work would border on Fantasy by my
>definition, as would Star Wars.  All these qualify under my definition of
>Speculative Fiction as stories which depend on a unique speculative element.

This is true, but I find it rather disingenuous.

There isn't a story around that doesn't depend to some
extent on its setting.  You can't perform a change
of venue with M-x search-replace in Emacs.

Nonetheless there are sf stories, like _The Dispossessed_,
in which neither plot nor theme hinges on a speculative
setting.  Not _TD_, but a book with similar plot and the
same theme, could be set in many of the utopian "colonies"
of the nineteenth century.  Lois McMaster Bujold could
be transferred without much trouble to medieval Europe.

But let me turn this question around - can you name any
piece of fiction which uses a speculative setting and
yet does not fit your definition of Speculative Fiction?

c
From: chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Legal Aspects of Pen-Names -- query
Date: 1 Sep 92 00:04:49 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>For several years I've tried, every so often, to get good up-to-date
>information about legal aspects of the use of pen-names.  To no avail.
>Does anyone know of a source of information on this?-- 

Source of information? Not handy. Real world aspects? No big deal:

o pen name goes under the title on the manuscript:

     This is a title,
	 by
    herbert Schoring

o real name goes up in the address part of the manuscript.

That's it. Assuming everything works, the contract/check comes out in your
name, and the story comes out in the pen name. 

Some authors put an AKA on their bank account to make it easier to cash
checks sent to them with their pen name on it (it happens). Depending on
business realities, you might need to add an AKA to your business license
and/or do a fictional business legal ad to make the city happy (if your city
requires you to do that sort of stuff as a freelancer).

The big question is why to use a pen name? Generally, they're a big pain in
the neck and if you ask me, not worth it 99% of the time.


-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!
From: sahle@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Eskinder Sahle)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Help! Copyright Procedures
Date: 23 Aug 92 18:28:40 GMT
Organization: VPI&SU Computer Science Department, Blacksburg, VA

Hello all:

Some of my friends and I are compiling a lexicon.  The project
started out as a pass-time for us, just to have fun.  But now the
work has grown into something substantial and serious.  We've formed
a group to supervise the development and are now wondering if we
should copyright the dictionary.   Does anyone know what the process
is to copyright a work?  

Thanks,
Ahmed
From: Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Story submissions?
Date: 28 Aug 92 08:11:07 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

This is what I do when I submit a story to a magazine:

1) Prepare a SASE, a stamped self-addressed envelope for the magazine to return
my work in.

2) Prepare the manuscript.  One inch margins.  Name and address in the upper
left corner of the first page.  Under your address type anything special, like
NOT A SIMULTANEOUS SUBMISSION.  Word count to nearest hundred in upper right
corner.  Title halfway down the page.  Penname (if different from the one with
my address) a double space below the title.  Start the text six lines below the
title.  Use clear black script on white 20lb paper.  It's easiest to read a
non-proportional font, so I use Times Roman.  Left justify the text and leave
ragged edges, block text is harder to read.  The text should be double spaced.
At the upper right corner of every subsequent page type an identifier like
this: BARCLAY\story title\2 <the page number>.

3) Paper clip (don't staple) the manuscript together and stuff it in an
envelope with the return envelope.

4) For a short story you don't need any sort of cover letter.  You may want to
include a letter if you can list some previous story sales.

5) Keep all receipts for postage and enter when and where you sent the story in
a log book.  (Postage expenses are deductable from income made on the story.)
(By the way, many editors get peeved if you send the story to more than one
place at a time.  It's good to reassure them by putting NOT A SIMULTANEOUS
SUBMISSION on your mss.)

6) Cross your fingers and start writing another story.

7) If you don't hear back in six months, send a polite enquiry.  If nothing
happens after another six weeks, send a letter telling them you'll consider the
story rejected if you don't hear in another six weeks.  After that, send it to
another mag.

This is one of the accepted submission standards for most North American SF
markets.  I wish you luck!

Alan
From: Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: World Creation
Date: 26 Aug 92 07:51:52 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

I learned a valuable lesson while plotting my current book.  I submitted a
sketchy outline to my writer's group and they kept asking questions about the
world that I could not answer.  I had thought I knew what was going to happen,
but the muzzy world details kept shooting holes in things.

After that I spent a couple weeks hammering out ideas on how magic works and
what forces affect people in the world.  Many of these details started as
arbitrary decisions, but later contributed to my plotting.  Once I knew how
things worked I could start throwing things into the plot that had never been
there.

For example: I decided one of the major rules of magic is the Law of
Similarity--two similar things have a magical connection.  My protagonist is
dumped into a fantasy world which contains a duplicate of himself.  The
duplicate is a powerful wizard, while my protagonist is just a beginner.  Much
of my plot now revolves around these facts.

I used to be a perfectionist, wanting an imaginary universe to pop full blown
into my head.  I now believe that the patchwork creative process (which is the
only way it seems to work) is wonderful, because the tension between two wild
ideas often produces an interesting explaination.


Alan

Newsgroups: misc.writing