HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel)
Subject: Re: Debaters on drugs
Organization: DAFCO: OS/2 Software Support & Consulting
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:58:03 GMT

ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eli Brandt) writes:


>Unfortunately, Andre Marrou was barred from a scheduled interview
>on C-SPAN by the St. Louis police, but for comparison,

What!!! Could you explain this please?
-- 
Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
 
[.sig on vacation]
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,alt.individualism,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.ec,alt.politics.europe.misc
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: Free Country WHERE?  (was: Products to be banned by the FDA)
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:58:33 GMT

Well, believe it or not, my friends who run the International Society for
Individual Liberty say probably the freest countries right now are either
South Africa, the Czech Republic, or perhaps the Baltic Republics or Poland.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
From: jpt@telecaster.think.com (James P. Taylor)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: inelastic demand for drugs
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:02:38
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com
In-reply-to: dolan@XENON.BERKELEY.EDU's message of 15 Oct 92 19:20:27 GMT

In article <9210151914.AA01941@helium> dolan@XENON.BERKELEY.EDU (Kent Paul Dolan) writes:

   CJ sez:

   > Kent, you ignoramous, why don't you go look up "elastic
   > demand" and "inelastic demand".  Hint: demand for some
   > drugs is inelastic, and hence price insensitive. Come
   > back when you've actually done some reading about the
   > concepts.  You'll look like less of a fool.

   Sigh. Notice that nice little weasel word "some"? As I recently posted,
   a study one can trust -- no self reporting, no self selection of study
   participants -- shows that the demand for cocaine, explicitly, is quite
   dollar price sensitive, even when the larger social costs to military drug
   users are are prohibitive beyond the drug effects.

   What does that say about the likely effect, in the USA, of making
   cocaine cheaper by legalizing street drugs?

The issue is not elasticity [or inelasticity of demand].  The only
requirement is that the "legal" price [probably regulated] should be set to
not encourage a significant black market.  The issue is to exterminate the
black market [aka crime] that surrounds drug use.  

   CJ, I got my "A" in Economics 101, out of Paul Samuelson's text,
   roughly the time you cut your first molar.

   Next fool?

   Kent, the man from xanth.
   "The Birthright of humankind is the stars!"
   --
   Ignore the header, and don't expect me to see a news reply.  We don't get news.
   Use email to: <dolan@nrlmry.navy.mil> or <dolan@192.138.87.240>
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: Ventura Co. Raid?
Date: 16 Oct 1992 17:25:53 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: asp.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct14.164838.17820@PA.dec.com> rah@rampart.pa.dec.com (Robert Holt) writes:
>Anyone with an LA Times able to verify this story?

Yup.  It's de troof, boys.

Chalk up another one for the Inquisition.

c
From: drumm@cnsvax.uwec.edu (Danny)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: inelastic demand for drugs
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:55:38 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

In article <9210151914.AA01941@helium>, dolan@XENON.BERKELEY.EDU (Kent Paul Dolan) writes:
> 
> Next fool?

Looking for someone to take your place?


                          ________________________________
                         /                                \
                         |  The Drug War:  Witch hunt '92 |
                         \________________________________/
Xref: sparky talk.politics.drugs:6846 alt.politics.usa.misc:242 alt.politics.usa.constitution:710 alt.individualism:5795 alt.politics.elections:17354 talk.politics.guns:22241
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Gun control party lines?
Summary: I'm not so sure
Keywords: RKBA
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:35:26 GMT
Reply-To: garry@alice.UUCP ()
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

In article <1992Oct15.211809.25316@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:

>	On this one you are mistaken.  While there are legislators in the 
>Republican party who are against the RKBA, they are in the minority.
>Among lefties, particularly among the Democratic legislators, anti-RKBA
>is the rule.  Self defense, the RKBA etc, are not compatable with the 
>lefty philosophy of reliance on government.  Votes on anti-gun-owner 
>legislation tend to be divided along party lines.

You may be right, I'm not really up on who votes for/against this.
But, just for information's sake, I do recall reading a while back,
I *think* in Newsweek, an article on Gun Control(GC).  They stated that
votes on GC were a regional, not a party issue.  They cited
Mitchell, from Maine (where hunting is popular and urban crime is not
a big issue ) as being anti-GC, and a conservative republican who is
pro-GC.

Again, I don't know if this is right or not, but I just thought
I'd toss it in.

-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
From: wilcox@cfht.hawaii.edu (Dan Wilcox)
Subject: Re: some notes on the presidential debate
Reply-To: wilcox@cfht.hawaii.edu (Dan Wilcox)
Organization: Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope Corp.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:45:47 GMT

In article <machman.718910683@milton>, machman@milton.u.washington.edu
(The Machman) writes:
> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
> 
> >     Did anyone else notice Bush scratch his nose just as he mentioned
> >cocaine? I found it hilarious, myself.
> 
> YES !!  There were about 8 of us watching the debate in my livingroom, and
> as soon as that happened, all of us exploded in hoots and laughter.  It was
> the most amazing thing.  I wonder if anyone's going to play that up.  
> Letterman?  Probably not.  SatNiteLive?  Maybe.  
> 
> 						-- dave
> 
> >Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off
my brain!
> 
> -- 
>  /'''   The Machman     machman@milton.u.washington.edu    david c carroll
>  c-OO                                                                      
>     \                     "Big Science.  Hallelujah"
>    -                                                                       

   The debates here in Hawaii were delayed and Roc (live) came on right
after that.  They happened to play that particular scene as they started
the show.
We all just died laughing.  Maybe George is trying to tell us something? ;-)

===============================================================================
Dan Wilcox	wilcox@cfht.hawaii.edu		(808) 885-7944
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Tout ce qu'un homme est capable d'imaginer,
 d'autres hommes seront capable de realiser.         Jules Verne
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the
 insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well         U.S. Supreme Court Justice
 meaning, without understanding.                     Louis Brandeis
===============================================================================
From: gardner@convex.com (Steve Gardner)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: U.S. Government Launches Anti-Drug Abuse Program in Schools
Date: 14 Oct 92 02:41:52 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <1992Oct13.234923.25138@samba.oit.unc.edu> Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen) writes:
>Using animated characters and rock and rap music, Skyshapers
>materials will give the nation's children tools for building
>self-esteem and a future free of alcohol and other drugs.  
		 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	How in the sam hill did they slip this one by the beer companies?
	A future free of alcohol and other *drugs*?  This is the best news
	the legalizaton movement has had in years! Who let the Womens
	Temperance Society religious nut cases out of their cages?  Finally
	the fictional wall between alcohol and "drugs" is beginning to
	crumble. If the government keeps this shit up, NORML will be getting 
	most of its money from Adolf Coors. ;-)

	Boy if this ain't miller time I don't know what is!!!  

						smg



						
	
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
From: wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (William December Starr)
Subject: Re: Prohibition
Organization: Northeastern Law, Class of '93
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:00:29 GMT


In article <16119@borg.cs.unc.edu>, 
bell@cezanne.cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell) said:

> Having argued drug prohibition with Kent way back in 1988, and
> finding him still showing the same complete lack of logic, I find it
> much like trying to teach a pig to sing.  However, I'll both post
> and e-mail him, in the vain hope that it might educate anyone who
> believes him.

I applaud your civic virtue, Andrew, but why bother?  Anyone who
believes Kent Paul Dolan would have to be at least as stupid,
bullheaded, arrogant and assholic as Dolan himself...  and what are
the odds of you educating Ed Nilges about anything?  :-)

-- William December Starr <wdstarr@athena.mit.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.constitution
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: Boot camp?
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:34:55 GMT

>Clinton:
>"I am adamantly opposed to legalizing drugs. ... we ought to have
>boot camp for first time non-violent offenders..."

What exactly _is_ a boot camp?  Some kind of a mandatory Hitler Jugend
to teach people to respect Vaterland?  Where does the name come from?

>Unfortunately, Andre Marrou was barred from a scheduled interview
>on C-SPAN by the St. Louis police, but for comparison,
>
>1992 Libertarian platform:
>"In particular, we advocate... the repeal of all laws prohibiting
>the production, sale, possession or use of drugs... We demand the
>use of executive pardon to free and exonerate all those presently
>incarcerated or ever convicted solely for the commission of these
>`crimes'."
>
>It's your call.

//Jyrki
Xref: sparky talk.politics.drugs:6674 alt.politics.elections:15770
From: atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Clinton: guarding our orifices
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 92 23:39:41 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

Crossposted from alt.individualism.

>From: keithl@klic.rain.com (Keith Lofstrom)
>Subject: Clinton restricts food supplements
>Message-ID: <1992Oct6.202321.3894@klic.rain.com>
>Date: 6 Oct 92 20:23:21 GMT
>Article-I.D.: klic.1992Oct6.202321.3894
>
>Thought you would like to know:
>
>On June, 1985, Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton signed a state regulation which
>requires a physician prescription for food supplements and herbs.  Strangely
>enough, King George has gone on record as being against such regulation.  Gee,
>it's getting so you can't tell the fascists from the fascists anymore ;-)
>
>A complete report may be found in the October 1992 issue of the Townsend
>Newsletter for Doctors, along with the text of the regulation.  
>
>Keith
>-- 
>Keith Lofstrom         keithl@klic.rain.com       Voice (503)-520-1993
>KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon"
>Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Power ICs


    Alan T. Furman         | VOTE LIBERTARIAN!!  Marrou/Lord in 92!!
---------------------------+----------------------------------------
  atfurman@cup.portal.com  |   (800)682-1776 for more information
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,alt.drugs
From: gaspar@inf.ethz.ch (gaspo)
Subject: Halloween Favorite Drug-(Survey, Please Read)
Summary: Halloween Favorite Drug-(Survey, Please Read)
Organization: Twilight-Zone-Algorithms-Incorporated
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 12:59:04 GMT


Ok, we got really lucky this year, and all-hallows-eve shall fall upon a
saturday nite, begging for some serious parties and misciev.  I happen
to think Halloween is best suited to a certain ergot derivative, but,
drugs are like music, everybody has their favorite type.  So, hit the
reply key ("R" in most rn's), and let me know what you think is the best
inebriant for Halloween by filling in the following info:

1): number-one favorite drug to take on halloween
2): number-two drug for the nite of pranks
3): whatever you would take if you cant get 1 or 2

WHY: a brief description (preferably only a few lines) of just excactly
WHY: why you think 1) is most suited for Halloween.

I will tabulate (well, actually, the script will) the results and post
them back here probably on Thursday, 29 October so the way down stream
sites can get the tabs before the dark nite.  I will also pick the best
why's, and post them with the results (if any come in that is).

You can delete anything above the line that has the "1):" on it, and
everything after the "WHY:" lines. Or, just leave the whole bit in.

Any kind of ">" "#" or whatever indentation-character your software 
uses for replies can stay, as my script only reads whats after 
the "N):" and "WHY:" strings.

This is not anonymous, but I'm the sysadmin, and I'm the one who has
ultimate control over all the logs on this end.  If you're worried about
what will happen to you over this, then you probably shouldn't be
reading this group, as its easier for the bill to read your .newsrc file
than to get my logs.  Besides, i said "what you think", and, there's an
amendment or something that says you can say "what you think", and not
incriminate yourself.  Furthermore, If the suits want some blood, they
can get mine easier than yours.

Even if you don't vote on this, I wish you a nite of magic and
devilment, with the spirits watching over your non-participating buts.

thanks for your time and input.

--gaspo.


- Scott "gaspo" Gasparian / Dept. Informatik -    |    - Umwelt    -
- Stabstelle Software / System Administrator -  \ | /  -  Schutzen,-
- ETH-Zentrum,  CH-8092 Zurich,  Switzerland -  _\|/_  - Rad       -
- gaspar@inf.ethz.ch     /   +41'01'254'7205 -   '|`   -  Benutzen.-
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
From: gag65@cas.org ()
Subject: Libertarian presidential candidate Andre Marrou on Larry King 10/12
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:09:01 GMT

This has already been posted to the alt.politics.libertarian and
alt.politics.marrou groups, but for those interested in hearing the Libertarian
Candidate for president, Andre Marrou, he will be on CNN's Larry King show
tonight (10/12) at 9:00. Eastern.  He will probably be on during the second half
of the show.

Marrou will no doubt be talking about being the only one of the four candidates
on the ballot in all 50 states who was not invited to the debates.  He will also
most likely discuss Libertarian solutions to current problems and the
differences between his ideas and those of the other three candidates.

PS.  Andre Marrou is _adamantly_ opposed to the criminalization of drugs.

--Gary
~
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.misc,alt.drugs
From: tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: War on drunk driving fails
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:13:35 GMT

dougm@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>What?  You mean jail won't cure an alcoholic?  Better start
>confiscating those cars and houses!  We do know how to turn a drunken 
>bum into a homeless drunken bum.

Or increase the jail time.  If there is not enough space in the jails, then
make the fifth offense punishable by death (fifth offense gives you two
chances to learn and two relapses after you've learned).

Also, make the method of execution death by removal of organs for transplant
so that the body doesn't go to waste.

--Tim Smith
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,alt.individualism,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.ec,alt.politics.europe.misc
From: doctor1@cbnewse.cb.att.com (patrick.b.hailey)
Subject: Re: Free Country WHERE?  (was: Products to be banned by the FDA)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 07:13:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.235830.10680@nntp.hut.fi> jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:
>
>PS3. or how about USA with the U.S. Constitution?

The most likely alternative in a depressingly unlikely bunch of alternatives.
To my view, one of the best ways to work towards this is to support the
Libertarian Party.  Even if you don't want 100% of what the LP wants, an
increasing LP presence can only help.

I may still be persuaded to send out LP info packets.  They'll get to you
quicker than they will from the party.  Send me your snail-mail address via
e-mail.  Or call the party at 1-800-682-1776.

Flame me for LP stumping in this forum, if you must, but really, it's been
*weeks* since I've posted something like this, and it only took two lousy
paragraphs... 

   Thanks awfully,
              Patrick

Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
From: ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eli Brandt)
Subject: Debaters on drugs
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:47:18 GMT

Quotes from the debate, in response to a question on
"...If not what's advocated by William F. Buckley Jr. and Milton
Friedman -- legalization, somewhere between there and where we are
now?"

Perot:
"Just look at those little children and if anybody can even think
about legalizing drugs, they've lost me."

Bush:
"I think legalization of narcotics or something of that nature in
the face of the medical evidence would be totally counterproductive.
And I oppose it..."

Clinton:
"I am adamantly opposed to legalizing drugs. ... we ought to have
boot camp for first time non-violent offenders..."


Unfortunately, Andre Marrou was barred from a scheduled interview
on C-SPAN by the St. Louis police, but for comparison,

1992 Libertarian platform:
"In particular, we advocate... the repeal of all laws prohibiting
the production, sale, possession or use of drugs... We demand the
use of executive pardon to free and exonerate all those presently
incarcerated or ever convicted solely for the commission of these
`crimes'."

It's your call.

   Eli   ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.misc,alt.drugs
From: skrenta@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Rich Skrenta)
Subject: Re: War on drunk driving fails
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:18:47 GMT

dougm@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> The latest statistics available from the Justice Department show that
> the number of driving-while-intoxicated arrests rose 22 percent in the
> 1980s.

Be careful how you interpret this statistic.

I read that fatal auto accidents resulting from alcohol had declined
in the 1980's.  Aha!  This casts a new light on the DUI arrests:  perhaps
they're working.

Of course if you set up sobriety checkpoints and institute tougher DUI
laws you're going to make more arrests.  And incidents of DUI should
decline.

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics."

--
Rich Skrenta
From: bmasel@igc.apc.org (Ben Masel)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: I'M RUNNING FOR SHERIFF
Date: 10 Oct 92 08:09:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1484000060:000:548
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!bmasel    Oct 10 01:09:00 1992


THIS MORNING I WOKE UP IN A CURFEW
as the first Drug-War roadblocks appeared in Madison.  I decided
our Republican Sheriff could not stand for re-election un-
opposed, and declared my candidacy as an Independent Write-In in
November. (Its too late to make the ballot.)

I have registered with the County Clerk, and created an official
Campaign Finance Committee, Masel for Sheriff, No More Roadblocks!
516 E. Mifflin St. #4, Madison, WI 53703. Contributions over $20
refused.

See response 1 for my first salvo, a letter to my opponent.

Ben Masel
From: rhoge@leven.appcomp.utas.edu.au (Robert Hoge)
Subject: Re: Free Country WHERE?  (was: Products to be banned by the FDA)
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 03:15:32 GMT

To find a free country, you're really looking for one without a population
register kept by the police or some closely allied authority.  That
requirement eliminates all European countries, including Finland.  The U.K.,
the U.S., and Australia all used to qualify, but not anymore.  In the U.S.,
as we read on the network, you're all written up at least by the business
community, and the feds are doing their best to catch up, too.  The U.K.,
I'm told, expects to have a mandatory national ID card scheme in effect
sometime soon, and Australia has its Tax File Number system in place.

Surprisingly, of all the countries I've visited (about 20, I think), Hungary
came closest to real freedom for me as a foreigner.  This was in the 70's,
however, and things may have changed.  Of course, Hungarians in Hungary weren't
free, but as a Finnish national, I could enter at will without a visa, and
there was no requirement to register with the police as long as we stayed
with friends.  Only if you took a hotel room or got private quarters through
Ibusz, the national tourist agency, did you get into the police register
as a foreigner (this goes for Finns, now, blood brethren of the Hungarians).

So, had the opportunity been there, my family and I could have settled in
Hungary, done whatever consulting I could have found, probably payed no
taxes ever, and enjoyed some of the finest landscapes, best food, and
friendliest people this world has to offer, with no legal authority
anywhere interested in our whereabouts and our doings.  Now that's
freedom...


-- 
Robert Hoge                           AARNET: Robert.Hoge@appcomp.utas.edu.au
Department of Applied Computing & Mathematics        Phone : +61 03 260 476 
University of Tasmania at Launceston                 Fax :   +61 03 260 368 
Australia
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,alt.individualism,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.ec,alt.politics.europe.misc
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Free Country WHERE?  (was: Products to be banned by the FDA)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:51:09 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.225833.7172@genie.slhs.udel.edu>, starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:
> Well, believe it or not, my friends who run the International Society for
> Individual Liberty say probably the freest countries right now are either
> South Africa, the Czech Republic, or perhaps the Baltic Republics or Poland.

  Besides South Africa, is this perhaps because these countries are in
such a state of anarchy that they are relatively free (in the sense that
there is no central repressive entity)? I was under the general perception
that the Eastern European countries were not really "libertarian" out
of any deep conviction, but mostly sick and tired of communism. I would
be interested to hear that they recognize individual liberties as a basis
of law rather than by circumstance. Do you have any information on what
their "constitutions" look like?
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)