From: altus@leland.Stanford.EDU (Steve Altus)
Subject: Re: Suncoast Monstrosity
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 13:09:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.222341.4774@odin.corp.sgi.com> luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo) writes:
>>
>>i've been silent on this issue the whole time...i HATE domes, i HATE astro
>>turf, and i like being able to see NL teams here while i'm at stanford (and
>>have no plans to ever live in Tampa again)...but i must tell you, as one who
>>has lived in both places very recently, no matter what the die-hard 
>>Giant fans here say, from what I'VE seen i must admit that the fans in 
>>Tampa/St. Pete deserve a team much more than the ones here...
>>
>Why do you say that the fans in Tampa/St. Pete deserve a team more then the
>FANS in SF? Is it because they built a dome to steal a team from someone
>else? That can be pushed through with a small minority of the population
>and politics. Is it because the FANS of the Bay Area voted down the stadium
>proposals? Couple of facts here: 
>

Don't be stupid.  Would i post to say i thought the fans were more deserving
there on my inside info that there is a new stadium there and not one here?
Oh, boy, let me share my unique knowledge with the net!  No, the dome certainly
doesn't make the fans there any better (actually, it's their weakness!  if
they had control over the situation it would have been a retractable roof;
but, as you point out, the fans don't control these things, the politics do,
and getting a fixed-geometry dome there was kinda like not getting a stadium
at all here!).

>What happens to your theory after the rose is off the bloom. The team
>has been there for a few years, they're losing, the newness has worn off,
>they have trouble attracting free agents because they play in dome or 
>one reason or another, attendance is declining, etc., etc. Will the Tampa/
>St. Pete area deserve the team more then? The point is: every area is 

yes, they will.

>going to have up times and down times. Fan support will be a function
>of winning, marketing, dynamics of the region (recessions and such) and
>uncontrollable elements such as weather, none of which is changable by
>the fans. One of my bugaboos about the Giants is that they have done a

in the SF bay area it is.  not around the world.  some people are fans
of the game.  those red-hot St. Louis Cardinals seem to do okay...

>miserable job of marketing the team over the years and have failed to
>develope a large fan base, therefore, if the team doesn't win and win
>big attendance is down. It's not good enough to simply put a team on the
>field. You have to give the fan more then that for the dollar. If they

maybe in SF that's true, where people can take their dollar and go to
the Opera or the Symphony or the Wine Country or the A's or go spend it
in leather stores or comedy clubs...and with their time can go up the
coast or down the coast or spend a day in Golden Gate Park or go bike
riding in the hills.  the competition for people's leisure dollar and
leisure time aren't as stiff in Tampa/St. Pete.


I said what i said because it's what i observed to be true in one-to-one
interactions with people in both places.  I don't expect everyone to agree
with me.  The only reason i posted was because i've interacted with the 
fans in both places -- the BASEBALL fans, and the people -- in the 
"other" Bay Area seem to have a better concept of the game and what it
means to American culture.  Because a lot of them will go to games no
matter how the team is doing;  to support the team, to see the other
teams, and just to see a baseball game!  


Don't get me wrong;  i love the (SF) Bay Area, and i love the people.  I
would much more likely be here than in Tampa.  But from what i personally 
have seen, i just don't think the fans here deserve a team as much as the
people in Tampa.  



 -- steve altus
Organization: University Relations - Diane, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA