HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bdavis@staccato.cray.com (Brent G Davis)
Subject: Re: Munchikinism/Min-Maxing (Require Def'n)
Organization: Cray Research Inc., Chippewa Falls, WI
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:08:02 CDT


Here is a good example of min/maxing:

   A new character manages to get the following rolls:

   18, 17, 16, ...

   The player decides to make a thief and arranges
the numbers as follows:

   Dex: 18
   Str: 17
   Con: 16

   Notice where the 16 ends up.  Putting either
the 17 or 18 in con wouldn't give the character any
extra hit points bonus since it's not a fighter.
By putting the 17 and 18 in strength and dex,
the player gets some good bonuses.  Clearly
a case of min/maxing the stats rather than just
arranging them for role-playing.

Hope this helps,

Brent
--
 /  bdavis@romulus.cray.com     Cray Research Inc.    Chippewa Falls, WI  \
(  Just another Engineer/Musician/AD&D'er multiclass with Internet access  )
 \ "I`m a zombie in the a.m., when it's just too early to wake the dead." /
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: spzkny@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES ZAKANY)
Subject: Re: A word on Mages
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date:  8 Sep 1992 08:32 EST  

In article <1992Sep4.162630.1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au>,
 edb892rsft@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au writes...

[yeah, yeah...we all know what this thread's about by now...]

"Give" a low level mage something akin to a "Wand o' Magic Missiles" with a 
dozen charges or so (probably in their first adventure's treasure trove).  

Also mentioned was non-weapon profs (since Int adds to these, wizards 
usually get a lot of 'em).  A budding thaumaturgist in MY campaign is an 
accomplished linguist...which REALLY aids the party.  He also has the 
obligatory "healing & herbalism" combo in a priestless band (VERY useful).

Plus, there's just plain ol' roleplaying!  If you make magic "special", 
you'll make even a low-level mage special, too!
                                                  James S. Zakany
Organisation: European Space Technology Centre (E.S.T.E.C)
Date: Friday, 4 Sep 1992 15:49:03 CET
From: <MATTWOOD@ESTEC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Adventure Modules

 First things first - is there a FAQ list for this group? (Is this a FAQ!)
And now for something completely different:

 I've been running the Temple Of Elemental Evil as DM for some time now, and
the group are nearing their goal, so I'd like to know if there is a follow-on
to this module.  If not, then the players are happy to start a new (level 1)
game, maybe with a little less 'hack-and-slash' and more intrigue - any
suggestions would be appreciated, except physical impossibilities :-)

Thanx all,

 Martin Attwood BDMFH.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: mkelly@chopin.udel.edu (Michael Joseph Kelly)
Subject: Re: Munchikinism/Min-Maxing (Require Def'n)
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:46:52 GMT

  I'm pretty new to the whole thing of D&D, however would a form of min-maxing be rolling a 6 sided die four times, taking the best three rolls, and then making that result the ability score of your choice?  I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who was a DM in a game using AD&D 2nd Ed. rules who was complaining about that because it was creating ultra characters.  Statisitically, it makes getting an 18 a lot easier.

                                                                    -Mike Kelly
                                                       mkelly@chopin.udel.edu

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: cg250@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Geoff Piper)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Spell casting, was Re: A word on Mages
Date: 12 Sep 1992 17:58:33 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


	What's the point? If I was a mage I would just rememorise the spell. It would take less time. From a mechanics game point I'd say fine but from the role play ascpect, I wouldn't do it. Beside really bofing up some game play and creating mage-Dm friction,
it doesn't fit. Think if a mage has to manipulate magical energies to cause them to come together in a cohesive form. He has to do it quickly or else what he has worked on will drift away. I'd say don't let them cast out of a book. If theywant to
do something like that, letr em use scrolls.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: mrmarcel@eos.ncsu.edu (MICHAEL RONN MARCELAIS)
Subject: Re: What are Cantrips...?
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:38:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.135735.18876@ncsu.edu>, cobra@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Brian Dunphy) writes:
|> The idea behind cantrips is mages had to learn how to cast spells at
|> some point, and they probably didn't start by trying to cast shocking
|> grasp (or some other 1st level spell).  Cantrips are basically the
|> 'learning' stage of magic.  They have become sorta 'holdovers' that
|> some real mages keep around.  (That's I beleive the way they were 
|> introduced in UA, I think)  Cantrips are basically too wimpy a spell to
|> be first level, but can be entertaining or useful if used correctly.
|> They are almost by necessity non-damaging.  We play that you can replace
|> one first level spell by three cantrips as memorized.  I'm not sure if
|> that's the official word or not.
|> 
|> How this gives you an idea what they are.
|> 
|> 					brian.
|> 
|> 
|> cobra@catt.ncsu.edu               "A little nonsense now and then
|> Brian Patrick Dunphy               is cherished by the wisest men."
|>                                          Willy Wonka.

-- 
If you play by second edition rules, there is a first level spell _Cantrip_
that allows the mage to cast an unlimited number of cantrips for one hour. (I
think that's right...)  The cantrips can't cause direct harm or ducplicate any
spell effect of a leveled spell but can be used to impress people or to do
useful things.

IE:  Your party's warrior and other meet in single combat.  You can use the
cantrip spell to cause the opponent to get a slight itch under the nose,
causing that person to lose initiative.  Then hope that your warrior dices up
the opponent.

Cantrips are usually used to impress people or when some small magical effect
needs to be done subtely.

(These are all just my opinions, except for the spell which is TSR's opinion.)

+-------------------------------------+------------------------------+
|  Mike Marcelais                     | mrmarcel@eos.ncsu.edu        |
|  353 Tucker, Box 04780, NCSU        | Fourth Bryan Productions     |
|  Raleigh, NC  27607                 | #include <disclaim.h>        |
+-------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| if the above address bounces, then try the address below:          |
| mrmarcel%eos.ncsu.edu@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu                              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: s9877751@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9877751)
Subject: Re: Missiles into Melee Combat
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:59:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.115138.6634@iscsvax.uni.edu>, boelter3945@iscsvax.uni.edu writes...
>In article <1992Sep7.140245.12612@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>,
>   jddavenport@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes:
>> A question regarding missile fire into melee combat:
>> 
>> In our gaming session this past week, I had occasion to throw a spear into 
>> a melee between two bugbears and my fellow Cleric (yes, I play 2nd edition
>> rules, but they'll always be clerics to me :)  The DM ruled that each of the
>> three combatants would be given an equal chance to be the target, then a to-hit
>> would be rolled (1-2 on a d6 means my compatriot would be the target, etc.).
>> The party felt this was an unfair ruling, because it in effect means that
>> a 20-th level fighter would hit his fellow adventurer more often than a 1st
>> level mage, because the chance of aiming incorrectly was equal for both, while
>> the fighter would have a vastly better chance of hitting *something*.
> 

Well, the method you've described above seems absolutely ludicrous.  In our 
sessions, in which I am the DM, we go by a simple rule.  If a missle is hurled,
or fired into a melee, then only the intended taget can be struck, unless the
attacker rolls a 1 or 2(situation dependent) for their hit roll.  This unfor-
tunate occurence would allow anyone else in the area to be struck, including
party members or other monsters.  Who is then stuck is determined by d%, and
each being has a different chance of being struck, depending upon its total
size and/or mass.
From: tsouth@techbook.com (Todd South)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Paladins
Date: 6 Sep 92 07:45:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: techbook.1992Sep6.074548.23869
Organization: TECHbooks --- Public Access UNIX --- (503) 220-0636

In article <66908@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
>In article <BtJuJ2.C4L@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:
>
>>Yes, it is justice. The victim may not be qualified to judge the right or
>>wrong of the situation. A rape or spousal abuse victim might blame herself
>>for the crime and not want the other person punished. The paladin is trained
>>to judge these sort of things, and having the advice of his diety doesn't
>>hurt either.
>
>Oh, so in your campaign, the paladin talks to his deity?  Like, on a
>daily basis?  Or is it just when he gets into tough situations?  Funny,
>'cause I play a cleric and I've never gotten any advice from my deity.
>Or any coversation.  Only spells.

Not his fault! Talk to your DM!

>>This isn't going to break the paladin's heart. He is concerned with
>>his people and his god foremost. Most gods aren't that concerned with
>>what you do with outsiders.
>
>Sorry, but I can't consider any god 'good' who would say "be good to
>each other, and do whatever the hell you want with people not of
>our religion."  Any god who would allow killing, raping, etc of people
>just because they worship a different deity is not good in my book.
>
>Besides, some gods actually get along with each other or work together.
>What would paladins from these gods do then?
>
>-- 
>Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
>ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."

To me, this is because you are placing values of the 20th century
onto a god that reflects anothers era's values.  Humanism is a
wonderful thing.  The current world has benefitted from the wave
of guilt caused by the whole lot of ism's.  But, in just another
hemisphere of the world people still lose hands for stealing.  This
is not a joke, this is not nice, but it is right and good by the
standards of the society and the standards of Islam as dictated
by his annointed.  Argue and disagree all you like.  A good fifth
of the planet has a different opinion.

Todd South

-- 
tsouth@techbook.COM  Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400, N81)
From: Devon_Sheppard@mindlink.bc.ca (Devon Sheppard)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Clerics: Deities Granting Spells
Date: 11 Sep 92 10:31:45 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Brian Vickers writes:


Actually, this wasn't fixed in the errata sheet. It was a question posed to
Skip Williams in "Sage Advice" of Dragon magazine. _He's_ the one who said
that you could add Commune w/ Nature to the druid spel list.

-- Brian
brian_vickers@isd.jpl.nasa.gov


I've done the same sort of thing... I've given certain priests access to
certain spells, even though they don't have full or even partial access to the
sphere - just a spell or two that I felt they should have to 'round out' their
abilites. A number of the Tome of Magic spells fall into this category,
especially from the Numbers, Thought and Time spheres.

  D

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: warren@apple.com (Chris Warren)
Subject: Re: Do we need a FAQ?
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.dnd
Organization: Taligent.com
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:17:18 GMT

In article <BuBLxs.6Kt@newcastle.ac.uk>, Mark.OLeary@newcastle.ac.uk (M.D.
O'Leary) wrote:
> 
> Having followed *.frp hierarchy groups for a couple of years, and more 
> especially now that we have a specific ADnD group, I think that there should be 
> a FAQ to prevent/reduce these recurrent discussion (ie the current alignment 
> fest? 4th time for me, I think ).
>    A FAQ along the lines I am about to suggest would be BIG, I think, but would 
> also be a n excellent resource for DMs... Here goes with my suggestion.
> 
> 1. Obvious recurrent topics would be described, with all the net-suggested 
> options for fixing the problem, ie.
> 
> LOW-LEVEL MAGES ARE PUNY.
> A suggests a SPELLPOINT system (briefoutline)
> B suggests BONUS SPELLS as per clerics (briefoutline)
> C suggests DROP ALL MAGES IN ACID
> etc etc
> 
> 
> 2. Locations of FTP, Mailing Lists etc could be centrally held and updated.
> 
> 3. Rules fixes, References to Dragon articles etc listed for reference...
> 
> 
> You begin to get the idea, I hope.
> 
> Now we need a volunteer to run the FAQ....
> 

There is a faq in progress.  I posted it once and am in the process 
of incorporating the *many* great suggestions that came in.
I got hit with a deadline recently so I may not get it out this week.
So look for it by sometime next week.

Cheers
--Chris
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters)
Subject: Re: Munchikinism/Min-Maxing (Require Def'n)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:45:13 GMT

In article <BuDFy5.4Ew@news.udel.edu> mkelly@chopin.udel.edu (Michael Joseph Kelly) writes:
>  I'm pretty new to the whole thing of D&D, however would a form of min-maxing
>  be rolling a 6 sided die four times, taking the best three rolls, and then
>  making that result the ability score of your choice?  I was talking to a
>  friend of mine yesterday who was a DM in a game using AD&D 2nd Ed. rules
>  who was complaining about that because it was creating ultra characters.  
>  Statisitically, it makes getting an 18 a lot easier.

First, let me thank you for putting carriage returns every 75 characters - NOT.

This is not what is normally considered Munchkin or Min/Max.  3b(4d6) 
"3 best of 4d6" is a fairly common method of generation.  Many DMs view 
that the players are somewhat different than "normal" (i.e. 3d6) folk, and
should have slightly higher stats.  

3b(4d6) does not make getting an 18 "a lot" easier.  True there are now
4 combinations which create an 18, but the total number of combinations goes
from 6^3 to 6^4.  Getting a 3 is very tough, since there is only 1 combination
which will yield a 3 (1-1-1-1).

From Years of DMing (how many you ask - well you can keep asking), I almost
always use the 3b(4d6) method.  It provides more characters who are slightly 
above average, with the occasional gifted character who gets an 18 (or two).

Munchkin is the infamous method (VII?) in Unearthed Arcana, where your class
dicates the dice you roll for scores:  A silly example is a barbarian:

STR : 3b(9d6)
INT : 3d4
WIS : 3d6
DEX : 3b(6d6)
CON : 3b(7d6)
CHA : 3d6

Min/Max is a cousin to "rules rape", but is not always bad.  It is often 
figuring how placement of scores can create a more survivable character.
I.e. a character who places a 15 in STR and an 17 in CON, playing a fighter,
has decided that the bonus hit points from the high CON outweigh the 
advantages of the hit and damage bonuses of a high STR.  A player may
decide to take a weapon which offers no other advantage than a high speed,
so he/she can get in the first attack (if you use weapon speeds).

But, as the _ultimate rule of thumb_ (c) copyright 1992 ultimate rules inc.
When playing in a DM's game, you use what (s)he allows.  If you are DMing,
decide how you view characters, as normal people, or as something with a 
little edge which makes them adventurers.  Then decide the method which is
best for you.

Might I suggest allowing a choice to your players:

1) 	Roll 3d6 6 times, recording the total each time.
	arrange these scores to suit your desires

2)	Roll 4d6, total the best 3, and write the score in the attribute.
	Repeat for each attribute.

This gives 2 equally good options, the slight edge of 3b(4d6), or a 
chance to decide where the scores go.

-Coyt
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Subject: Re: Non-weapon proficiencies, compiling, and needing help
Keywords: NWPs, Linguistics, Kits, etc.
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:35:29 GMT

How about "Omen Reading", a one slot profficiency available to priests.
It would be rather like "Astrology" but only usable for reading omens that
occured without the priest's intervention, thus it could be used only when
the GM wanted it to be used.
-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu
From: hermann@catull.uni-passau.de (Michael Hermann)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Character creation program
Date: 12 Sep 92 19:43:10 GMT
Organization: University of Passau, Germany

Hi,

I'm currently writing a program to create characters (o.k. it has been
done before, but I think that none of the programs I've seen fulfills what
I want and thus....)

I now have a method with which any way of rolling the attributes can be
included and here is where you come in :

   I am looking for ways that characters are rolled in the various worlds
   in order to include them in the program.

   Systems like DARK SUN, for example, use different methods than the
   Players Handbook (I haven't read the rules for DS but since you can get
   values of up to 24, as far as I know, they just have to use another
   method...). 

   So I'm looking for information on all the worlds of AD&D and the
   methods used to create characters. The various races not mentioned
   in the player handbook which are added as PC races in the different 
   settings (along with their min and max attributes) would be appreciated 
   as well.  

   And finally, in case that the common min/max attributes are not
   3/18 the new min/max values would be needed too. (If there are new 
   attributes i.e not str,dex,con,int,wis,cha those would be needed
   as well..)

BTW do not send any methods _you_ use which are not official (from any
package). The program will have a menu in which you can custom design
your own method...

Thanks in advance for any information sent.

PS: the program will be made available once it is finished (might take 
another month since I have a lot to do at the moment...) and will be 
freeware. I hope that it can be posted on the net or that I find a way
to submit it to a large ftp-site (like wuarchive).

    - Mike
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Lady and her Walrus)
Subject: Re: Adventure Modules
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 05:21:32 GMT

In article <92248.154903MATTWOOD@ESTEC.BITNET> <MATTWOOD@ESTEC.BITNET> writes:
> I've been running the Temple Of Elemental Evil as DM for some time now, and
>the group are nearing their goal, so I'd like to know if there is a follow-on
>to this module.  If not, then the players are happy to start a new (level 1)
>game, maybe with a little less 'hack-and-slash' and more intrigue - any
>suggestions would be appreciated, except physical impossibilities :-)
>
> Martin Attwood BDMFH.

I seem to remember that T 1-4, as it was released, was tied in to the combined
A 1-4 module and the GDQ 1-7 module.  I doubt either one has quite as much
intrigue as you're hoping for, but you might be able to modify them or take
ideas from them.  I believe "Queen of the Demonweb Pits" was the sequel to 
"Scourge of the Slavelords" but I don't remember how they tied in with "Temple
of Elemental Evil" offhand.

The Walrus
From: boelter3945@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Cube of Force usage question
Summary: Cube of Force vs. Great Wyrm Red?
Keywords: Dragon, Red, Cube, Force, Ouch!
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:22:24 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Sep9.112026.12705@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>, 
   crchakford@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes:
> 
>         [...] I also think any DM who
> gives his players a cube of force is a moron.  It's just to d*mn
> powerful.
>         DM: "The great wyrm red dragon attacks!"

   As if a great wyrm red dragon _isn't_ too powerful... :)

>         PC: "I turn on my cube of force, face 6, stops EVERYTHING!
>              *evil grin*"
>         DM: "@$%^&%&$*%*&(@!!!!!!"

   Alternate GM:  Okay, great wyrm red dragon attacks, let's see.. one bite, 2
claws, tail slap, foot stomp, wing buffet.. *calculate* .. dragon's relative
strength.. *calculate*.. Okay! Take off another 40 charges to maintain the
screen!.

          PC:  "But.. but.. it only has 30 left.."
          GM:  "Whoops, guess that last wing buffet his your party then.. okay,
saves everyone to maintain balance, plus x damage.  Mage, your spell got
ruined...
          GM thinks..
          GM:   "Oh, sorry, forgot about its MR.. *roll roll* Ah, cube ceases
to function when it gets near.. lemme add up damage..
          PC:  **groan**

   Great Wyrm Reds are _NOT_ to be messed with, if played right they are
*nasty*. :-)

   Of course, all of the above is in my own opinion, and just how I would run
things, assuming I would put the party up against a Great Wyrm Red...

                                        John "Nightwind" Boelter

--
*******************************************************************************
* John Boelter        a.k.a. Nightwind            boelter3945@iscsvax.uni.edu *
* Organizational Manager and contact person for everything and then some.     *
*******************************************************************************
* The individual who said we only use 10%  * The first 90% of a task takes    *
* of our brain's mental capacity, was      * 90% of the time, and the last    *
* probably 90% incorrect.                  * 10% takes the other 90%.         *
*            -Unknown comic on A&E-        *   -99 rule of Project Schedules- *
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