HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 18:02:36 CDT
From:         Tushar Samant <tushar@ZAPHOD.UCHICAGO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: English aspiration

>                        That is, my allophones are not asp/unasp, but
>more asp/less asp.

That's what one means by asp/unasp. There can't be anything which can be
called "unaspirated". As you aspirate less and less you voice more and
more.

>                    Tushar, what the hell are you doing?  What meaning
>are careful speech pronunciations of words in isolation going to have
>to you?  I think the things that confound you are words in sentences,
>casually spoken.  That's what you need data on, perhaps.  I wonder
>whether native-speaker intuitions count as data.

I am asking people who know what aspiration is. On the side, I am also
asking people around me to say words so that I can hear them myself.


>The other thing is that I don't believe your problem is w/ English
>rules (which, according to observations of my own speech are
>1) aspirate everywhere--I could never do the feather thing),
>I think your problem is w/ Marathi rules interfaced w/ English ones.

You have misunderstood my problem. I just want to know the rules which
determine aspiration in English.

I'll post in some more time what heard with my own ears.

tushar
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Subject: Re: Words-l All-Amazon Task Force
Reply-To: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 04:12:01 GMT


In a previous article, N567126@NCSUADM.ACS.NCSU.EDU (Gilbert Smith) says:

>>   It made perfect sense, providing one has the vocabulary to understand
>> him.....  Of course, from a man who couldn't understand that a <turd> was
>> a Donkey Puck...I wish I could say I was surprised.
>> <cheshire grin><dons asbestos Buffalo Plaid pjs>
>
>Now just *stop* *it*.... using these words I don't understand just
>to confuse me.  What, may I ask, is a Donkey <Puck>???????  I thought
  Gilbert Smith, you must have been a sore trial to your mother....  A
Donkey puck is what you southern boys use to play hay hockey, of course.:-)

>we were talking about <turds> and <biscuits> and <muffins>....
>Stop changing the subject ruthie baby.
Ahem.  I let you get away with Ruthie due to your age and state of decrepitude,
[and a certain silver Miata] but no one calls me Ruthie baby and gets
<away><with><it>.  May your wife read this and borrow your <silver Miata>.

Ruth<ie?>
but not baby [ you only think I'm that young....]

>
-- 
It's Ruth the NetHead, back from the [virtual] dead
	- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
fighting for truth, justice and static-free lines
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 10:57:58 MST
From:         Dan Lester <ALILESTE@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Brother Barbara
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              2 Sep 1992 22:52:49 EDT from
              <rashmi%Spl3.ECE.Drexel.EDU@COE.DREXEL.EDU>

On Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:52:49 EDT Rashmi Murthy said:
>What's a professional women's organization?

a buncha whores getting together for a coupla beers
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 09:03:55 CDT
From:         Bandwidth Pig <aharwell@PANAM1.PANAM.EDU>
Subject:      RE: computer registration
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>the mainframe in every way--we can finger now, since yesterday, so
>I can spy on Anne Harwell.

Goes both ways, m'dear...

<obligatory nasty remark about being fingered deleted>

-abh
From: karsten@netcom.com (karsten)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: fire and ice
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:01:49 GMT
Organization: Karsten's Bit Bucket
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
> Natalie, before putting anything wet on your screen (cloth, or worse -
> spray-on foam) leave your machine switched off for *many* hours.  Best
> do it first thing am in fact before you power up.  Otherwise use
> rubber gloves.

If you are referring to the lovely capacitive effect picture tubes have
then you might be interested in knowing they can store a charge for
weeks.

Most "owner's manuals" I've seen recommend using nothing more than a
damp cloth.  I get the impression that you have found this to be
unsatisfactory (problems with smoke?).  The ridiculous "computer
cleaning kits" supply places often sell usually offer cloths
containing an alcohol - usually isopropyl.  It is always
possible that the plastic used for your monitor case doesn't
get along well with this, so be careful and check first.

In any case, don't apply liquid directly to the screen.  Apply them
sparingly to a cloth and then use only the cloth for cleaning.  You
really don't want any liquid getting inside your monitor.

--karsten

(The truly anal would use lens paper, of course.)
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 00:39:42 EDT
From:         Rashmi Murthy <rashmi%Spl3.ECE.Drexel.EDU@COE.DREXEL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gleanings (57)
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
              "tk0jut1@niu.bitnet Jim Thomas" at Aug 31, 92 11:25 pm

[Dworkin philosophy deleted]
> But, if the term itself is troublesome, "male-phobic" is fine.
> What's the antonym for "misogynist?"

Jim, Andrea Dworkin seems to be the perfect example of a "misandrist" : a woman
who hates all men.

rashmi
(rashmi@coe.drexel.edu)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:17:01 MST
From:         Dan Lester <ALILESTE@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gleanings (56)
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              24 Aug 1992 17:39:00 EDT from <N567126@NCSUADM.ACS.NCSU.EDU>

On Mon, 24 Aug 1992 17:39:00 EDT Gilbert Smith said:
>pretty indigestible after a few days, but seemed funny at
>the beginning.

   sorta like the potatoes au gratin themselves, I imagine.

>handsome young stud (similar to -ggs in appearance), backing up
>and asking "Pardon me, are those Bugle Boy jeans?"  When the stud
>confirms that they are, the lovely young lady says "Thank you"
>and speeds off burning rubber.  Every man's fantasy.

   Wrong!   The fantasy would NOT have her speeding off....but asking
him to climb into her sports car as she casually unbuttons her blouse
to reveal her heaving bosom.....etc...etc...etc....

   dan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:46:47 -0500
From:         Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik <amadeus@CCWF.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Brother Barbara
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Wed, 2 Sep 1992, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> My sorority was officially named "fraternity."

Mine too.  Or, perhaps more accurately, my Greek professional women's
organization is properly referred to as a fraternity, not a sorority.  I
think it has something to do with the fact that, when the "professional"
women's groups wre formed, they decided to call them fraternities to
distinguish them from the more socially-oriented sororities.

Interesting how, in order to be taken seriously, they had to call
themselves a fraternity.  Professional women's sorority just wouldn't cut
it.

At any rate, even though I was a member of Sigma Alpha Iota, professional
women's music fraternity, we referred to each other as sisters.

--Susan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:33:06 EDT
From:         Tony Harminc <TONY@VM1.MCGILL.CA>
Subject:      Re: English Aspiration

On Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:21:38 EDT Karen Kay said:
>But aspiration is only a distinctive feature for voiceless stops in
>English.

I thought aspiration of ptk was never a distinctive feature in English.  Do I
misunderstand/not remember the terminology ?  Aspiration (of ptk) is
not phonemic in English.  Same thing - no ?  Examples ?

Try to tell your average native speaker that the p in spin is not at all
the same sound as the p in pin.  It's a hard sell!

Tony H.
From: karsten@netcom.com (karsten)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Law of Supply and Demand
Date: 27 Aug 92 22:10:53 GMT
Organization: Karsten's Bit Bucket
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

"Don Moore974-4078 S/C 574-4078" (813974-4078 S/C 574-4078") writes:
> ...I almost agree with you...BUT some lumber yards said they
> WOULD NOT raise prices.

...and then they did?  Or did they keep their prices low and others
raised theirs?

This is one case where chain stores can have an advantage.  If
International Lumber and Nails has 200 stores, 5 of which are in
Andrew areas they might be able to handle the additional demand
without difficulty (or price increases).  Chris's Plywood Mart
(1 location conveniently located near you if you live near Chris)
probably doesn't have that reserve.  Chris can either keep
the price low (and run out of plywood), raise the price to pay
for new sources or take a loss on each sheet sold.

--karsten

(Right next door to Chris's Stud Mart?)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 20:13:57 CDT
From:         Tushar Samant <tushar@ZAPHOD.UCHICAGO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two Tushars

>> It's just a knack.
>
>And you notice he didn't have Bernard with him.  Bernard would have known
>the difference and given away the hoax.
>   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)

"Bernard" is one of my least important inventions.

tushar
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:40:36 -0500
From:         Doris Smith <dorisann@TENET.EDU>
Subject:      Greedy List Friends
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

> Hint #2: the so-called "Rocky Road" blizzard has some unidentifiable
> blackish pellets in it that I believe were called, in my youth,
> "tektites," rocks reputedly formed by material thrown off the moon during
> gigantic meteor collisions. Stay away from both...they are evil and will
> make you <slow>.
>
 abh, quit being a spoilsport and go get your own blizzard.  You
m u s t n ' t  t r y  t o  s p o i l  m y  a p p e t i t e.  I ' m  t o o
q u i c k   f o r  y o u .
d
 o
  r
   i
    s
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 22:05:04 EDT
From:         Frank <ST403231@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: English aspiration
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

>From:         Tushar Samant <tushar@ZAPHOD.UCHICAGO.EDU>
>
>>> That's what one means by asp/unasp. There can't be anything which can be
>>> called "unaspirated". As you aspirate less and less you voice more and
>>> more.
>
>Natalie:
>
>>I'm getting confused.  Are you saying that sounds like [p] in "spin"
>>are voiced??
>>   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
>
>Karen:
>
>>Patently untrue; where did you get this idea from?
>
>
>If I don't aspirate where I should, it is generally heard as voiced.
>
By speakers of English, yes.  The same thing happens when I use a Russian
word in the presence of an English speaker who does not also speak Russian.
If that word should have (especially begin with) a voiceless stop, which
are *never* aspirated in Russian, the English speaker will invariably
reproduce it using a voiced consonant that roughly matches the one in
the word in place and manner of articulation.  (The match is usually
fairly close for the labials and velars, and not so close for the dentals,
since English dentals are really alveolars.)  Still, what Natalie and
Karen were pointing out was that even though an English speaker will
understand the consonant as voiced, that still doesn't mean that the
vocal chords were vibrating when it was articulated.

If we didn't try to substitute the sound we heard in a foreign language
with one that comes more or less close from the phonetic inventory of our
native language, then none of us would ever speak with accents.  Think
how boring that would be.

By the way, how *did* you pull off producing Natalie *and* Bernard *and*
do it in Starkville for the Moore family visit.  You are a master, sir.

Frank
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:06:24 EDT
From:         Tony Harminc <TONY@VM1.MCGILL.CA>
Subject:      Re: RevereWare
              3 Sep 1992 15:30:56 -0400 from <droby@NOVA.TCS.TUFTS.EDU>

On Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:30:56 -0400 <droby@NOVA.TCS.TUFTS.EDU> said:

>I think I'm in one.  If we ever have a pseudodivorce, it'll be
>unpleasant and complicated, probably as bad as a real divorce.  Should
>it ever happen, I'll ask Paul how it compares to his real divorce.

FYI, the Ontario courts have just ruled that it is unconstitutional
to deny survivor and pension benefits to gay couples.  All sides
are now predicting that gay marriages (non-pseudo) will be legal
here soon.

Tony H.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 06:44:31 EDT
From:         "Judith E. Schrier" <PRIMATE@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Words-l All-Amazon Task Force
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

>I am expressing a great amount of interest in ordering an All-Amazon T-shirt.
>That is more than a mild interest.  That's an 'I'll write out the check now'
>amount of interest.  I would if I knew the cost, anyway.
>
>Betty  (which breast comes off?) Z.

The left, if you shoot right-handed.

And yeah, I'll buy a t-shirt.

love, judith
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 23:45:16 -0500
From:         Nancy Harwood <harwood@TENET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: info, please
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Sat, 29 Aug 1992, Bayla Singer wrote:
>
> I need someinfo help.  I'm neck-deep in a proposal, and can't think
> clearly anymore.  It *was* the -Challenger- that went down with the
> schoolteacher aboard, wasn't it?  I have to get this thing in the mail by
> tomorrow morning, and there's nary a liberry open around here at this hour!
>
Yes, it was the _Challenger_.  I remember it all too vividly...it was the
second time I had spent the aftermath of disaster with a roomful of
somebody else's stunned and horrified children. The first time was the Kennedy
assassination...two very long afternoons of feeling absolutely helpless.
ndh
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:30:18 -0500
From:         "Pat Gathright" <patg@TENET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Schoolyard taunts (Was Love Potion Number Nine)
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

> From: Doris Smith
>
> Let's go to Dairy Queen and get
> a *large* chocolate chip cookie dough breeze - want to?  Aw, what the
> heck, make it a *blizzard*
> Doris
	I heard on the news this morning that Blue Bell Ice Cream is
making their chocolate chip cookie dough flavor one of their regular flavors.
They had planned for it to be a summer ice cream but because of the demand
it will be right in your dairy case next to cookies and cream.
--pat
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:47:01 CDT
From:         Bandwidth Pig <aharwell@PANAM1.PANAM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bumper Stickers
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>I knew that -abh would come in with some <obnoxious> ad hominem attack!
...
>--ggs (forgiving -abh for her insensitivity only because of her
><ontological condition> of being Republican....)


Sorry, GGS, I gotta run to a <club meeting>, but I just have to fire a parthian
shot and say you're wrong, or you're wearing blinders, or you're living in a
very exclusive area where the public schools rival the private ones.

-abh
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Organization: Current Science Tel: +44 71 323 0323 Fax: +44 71 580 1938
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:03:02 EDT
Reply-To:     Graham Toal <gtoal@ed.ac.uk>
From:         Graham Toal <gtoal@CURSCI.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Bumper Stickers
Comments: To: Words-L and the Bandwidth Hogs <words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Mon, 31 Aug 1992 22:59:00 EDT, "Gilbert Smith" <N567126@NCSUADM.ACS.NCSU.EDU>
 wrote:
> I think all this is great, really.  My objection to *private* education
> is that it drains off all the students whose parents are in a position
> of power because they have money.  If all those students were in public

Not to mention the teachers.

G
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:29:01 MED
From:         Graham Toal <gtoal@STACK.URC.TUE.NL>
Subject:      Re: Aspiration
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

	> >Ditto. I've no idea what 'eighth' is relevant to either, but it's a
	> >good work to drop in morphological conversations.
	> >G
	>
	> Why, what is it an example of?
	> tushar

	Same thing 'dogs' is an example of.
	   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)

How does 'dogs' have problems with grapheme -> phoneme translation?

The think about 'eighth' is that it's difficult to identify consonant
clusters which map to the phonemes: [ei]t[th] - the only way to handle
it is as a single large unit.  This is the one that breaks text to
speech systems.

G
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 04:20:30 MED
From:         Graham Toal <gtoal@STACK.URC.TUE.NL>
Subject:      Re: TGTAagnes
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

	(uh, what does ATS stand for?)
	Doris

As They Say?  Griefs, you're such an easy target,Doris :-)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
From: ak743@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Doretta Hanschka)
Subject: Re: Lint-free cloths
Reply-To: ak743@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Doretta Hanschka)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 03:57:04 GMT


In a previous article, ALILESTE@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU (Dan Lester) says:

>>advice for poor bozos like me who have no access to hospital refuse.  Guess
>I understand there are some beaches in NJ and NY you could move to in order
>to get easy access.....

  Don't forget Connecticut - we had a ton of that stuff [used needles - 
cheap!] last summer, and a bit more this year.  


-- 
Nethead, aka the Ruth Hanschka, hath enscribed herein, a message
	ap290 and ak743 , both of the Cleveland Freenet
			Here Be Dragons
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:04:00 CDT
From:         "tk0jut1@niu.bitnet Jim Thomas"
 <TK0JUT1%NIU.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: misogynist antonym

   >The antonym of misogynist is misanthrope.  Isn't there a Moliere
   >play by that title?

A misanthrope is one who dislikes people (regardless of sex).
Moliere's play was The Misanthrope.

My favorite example of a misanthrope was Henry Brisbon, the "I-57
Killer" in Illinois. A rather nasty guy, he blew away a couple of
kids--he had the guy kiss the girl while he killed her so the guy
would know what dying felt like before we was murdered.  Brisbon stuck
his shotgun in the woman's vagina and pulled the trigger. Then he slit
the male's throat. Unfortunately (for Brisbon) the male lived. Brisbon
went to prison, where he murdered an inmate. Placed on death row, he
tried to murder John Gacy.  He was placed in max-solitary on death
row, where he did cute things like throw acid in a nurse's face, throw
feces on the staff, and generally try to get at people. In a rare
moment of lucid insight, he said "I used to think I was a racist. Then
I figgered out that I just didn't like nobody!"

The Henrys of the world challenge even the staunchist opponents of the
death penalty to come up with alternatives.

Jim (but I'm still an abolitionist) Thomas
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 08:50:45 CDT
From:         Bandwidth Pig <aharwell@PANAM1.PANAM.EDU>
Subject:      Re: system crash fix
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>locks up when I use Quickmail while also connected somewhere with
>NCSA Telnet.  It really is intuitive - when the machine is unresponsive
>I know that I'm in trouble.

NCSA Telnet, while a worthy product that has made telnet access available to
thousands, is worth exactly what you pay for it compared to some of the
commercial products out there. TCPack from Advanced Software Concepts is a
slick implementation, works great.

-abh
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:32:57 EDT
From:         Tony Harminc <TONY@VM1.MCGILL.CA>
Subject:      Re: Name that Node III
              25 Aug 1992 11:31:22 U from <harwell@SMTPGATE.TECHRSCS.PANAM.EDU>

On Tue, 25 Aug 1992 11:31:22 U Anne said:
>OK, I repent me of mine sins and all...I have a chance to give my MacIIci a
>FQDN, which means Words-L gets to play yet another round of Name That Node. I
>promise not to yield to the sys.nazis this time and name it something dumb and
>unimaginative. It'll be <?>.techrscs.panam.edu.
>
>Ideas, anyone?

Same idea I always have to these questions: Hamnet.

Tony H.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 23:53:30 EDT
From:         Karen Kay <LL23%NEMOMUS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: Fire and Ice
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Posted on 28 Aug 1992 at 17:21:32 by Tony Harminc
> So might I ask other WORD-Lers to take the huge risk and let me know
> whether I've just been lucky over the past 20 years or whether perhaps
> something in Graham's environment is a bit strange ?

I have had this problem when I was in an office w/ no windows that was
so vastly overheated we threatened to wear bathing suits.  (They turned
the heat down, then.:) )  I couldn't open the door w/out seriously
shocking myself, and my computer screen got me a couple of times.  But
this was always in the winter.

Karen
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Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 22:54:00 EDT
From:         Gilbert Smith <N567126@NCSUADM.ACS.NCSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Words-l All-Amazon Task Force
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>

I want a t-shirt, even if it *is* designed by -abh.
--ggs
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1992 16:43:09 CDT
From:         Bandwidth Pig <aharwell@PANAM1.PANAM.EDU>
Subject:      RE: tmesis 1
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

Yeah, yeah, Tushar. Where were you? Get <lucky>?

-abh
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1992 10:45:27 CDT
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Furthermore...
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

We've gotta stop saying bad things about Tushar.  He has reset 'mail'
for the list.  :-)
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)