From: lalford@fsu1.cc.fsu.edu (LYNN ALFORD)
Subject: Re: J Price answers questions
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: lalford@fsu1.cc.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University
Distribution:  world
Date: 20 NOV 92 17:23:57    

This will probably be very brief.  We are traveling around and so I am 
trying to catch up on things.

In article <1992Nov17.170257.10999@ncsu.edu>, jjprice@eos.ncsu.edu (JEFFREY JAMES PRICE) writes...
> 
> lalford@fsu1.cc.fsu.edu (LYNN ALFORD) writes:
> 
>|>In article <1992Nov9.165434.20916@ncsu.edu>, jjprice@eos.ncsu.edu (JEFFREY JAMES PRICE) writes...
>|>> 
>|>>In article <19242.2afd6c4e@levels.unisa.edu.au>, 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (The Eidolon) writes:
>|>>(all previous arguments deleted to save space and actualy answer a question)
>|>>|>In article <1992Nov3.210902.3556@ncsu.edu>,
>|>>|>jjprice@eos.ncsu.edu (JEFFREY JAMES PRICE) writes:
>|>> 
>|>>|>So, it's OK to kill unwanted puppies but not unwanted fetus's just
>|>>|>because a dog isn't a human? Are you implying that humans are in some
>|>>|>absolute way that humans are superior to all other animals?
>|>
>|>>I don't think it is OK to kill any animal (insects excluded) but one thing I 
>|>>have noticed is that talking to someone and you talk to them about getting
>|>>a little puppy put to sleep will elicit more of an emotional response then
>|>>talking about abortion. Is a puppy any more important than a baby.
                                                               ^^^^^^

>|>By the way, who is killing babies?  Abortion removes a fetus, which may be 
>|>alive, but isn't the same as a baby.
>Anyone who has an abortion kills a baby.(where did I mention killing babies but
>I answered the question.

I have highlighted above where you mentioned babies.

Abortion is to remove a fetus from a woman's body.  A baby is no longer in 
the woman's body, and can breathe, eat, and eliminate its own waste 
products.  

>Have you ever heard a pregnant woman mention that her fetus is kicking or when
>she talks about her pregnancy how many times does she say fetus instead of
>baby? What is the difference between a fetus and baby?

Ok, I admit to having no experience with pregnancy, but my understanding is 
that the woman can't actually feel the fetus kick until about the 6 or 7 
month of pregnancy.  Most abortions happen well before that.  A woman that 
far along usually will have decided that she wants (or at least is willing) 
to bear a child and at that point she might be calling it a baby.  But I 
(yep, my personal belief and not supportable) is that a baby can live 
outside of the womb.  A fetus cannot. 

>|>Ok, Jeff, let's get down to cases.  I had a friend who is married.  She was 
>|>on the Pill, because she didn't want to be pregnant.  Now you say that if 
>|>this married woman, had sex with her husband, then she must bring any 
>|>pregnancy to term?
> 
>YESSSSS!!!!!! (sorry fo caps)

Well, you certainly did answer the question.

>|>Well, there is a small problem in this case.  This person is trying to 
>|>avoid children for good reason.  She was on several medications for major 
>|>allergies and for chronic depression.  Now, before getting pregnant, she 
>|>should be off these drugs for a couple of months, to avoid any potential 
>|>fetal damage (read possible minor to major birth defects.)  If she did get 
>|>pregnant due to birth control failure, she was going to have an abortion, 
>|>because it was very unlikely that she would have a healthy baby.
>|>
>She knew there was a chance and she took and messed up PAY THE PRICE !!!

Here, you and I have a basic disagreement, and it seems unlikely that we 
can resolve it.  How did she mess up?  The fact that she wants to continue 
having sex with her husband?  The fact that no birth control is absolutely 
guaranteed to prevent pregnancy?  

>It was unlikely she would get pregnant but she did it is unlikely she 
>will have a healthy baby but she might.

She might also be forced to go through the pain of pregnancy, having to 
stay off the drugs that help her mental stability (remember, they were part 
of what might cause the birth defects), all to see a baby born that dies, 
painfully within hours or days?  

>Please quit spouting minority cases at me I can think of exceptions all day
>long but lets deal with the majority.

Minority cases are most of the talking points in this group.  After all, 
you want to lay down rules, so would you allow acceptions for the minority? 
Pro-life members of this group do the same with discussions about abortions 
the day before the delivery is supposed to happen.  I have yet to see any 
real proof that these ever happen, but they certainly get discussed.

>|>Now, would you force this woman to continue an unplanned pregnancy? 
>Yes.. 

Definite disagreement here.  Especially considering a case where birth 
defects are likely.

>|>Knowing that it was very likely that any baby would have some sort of birth 
>|>defect due to medication the mother was taking?
>Is There a question mark here for a reason.

Medications can have real effects on a developing fetus.  A pregnant woman 
shouldn't drink, should watch what they eat, and should consult their 
regular physician about any regularly used prescription before they become 
pregnant.  This makes medications and medical history potentionally very 
important when considering an individual case.

>|>(note, this example is in present and past tense because I haven't spoken 
>|>to this person in some time.  Things in past tense may have changed by 
>|>now.)
>|>
>|>>|>Answer the question: What if she is forced to change her mind because
>|>>|>of reasons not under her control?
>|>>|>
>|>>Have the baby because she purposely brought it into the world
>|>
>|>People using birth control are *not* purposely bringing any offspring into 
>|>the world.  They are trying to avoid offspring.  Why force them to have 
>|>children they aren't prepared for?
>I answered your question jbut I will answer a quetion about my reply I don't
>understand

Jeff, I think you are getting a tad agressive in here due to mis-reading 
this.  I was not the person who wrote

Answer the question:...
check out the attribution at the top to see who wrote that. 

I was just bringing up a few specifics to see how you felt about them.

Lynn
  _____      The Darwin fish
\/    o\
/\_____/
  bb bb
I had an opinion just a moment ago.  Now where did I put it?
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,soc.men