HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pmontgom@euphemia.math.ucla.edu (Peter Montgomery)
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.jobs.*
Keywords: alterations to newsgroup(s)
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 19:55:18 GMT

>>CREATE: misc.jobs.entry    = positions offered to new graduates
>>        misc.jobs.expert   = positions offered to the experienced
>>        misc.jobs.recruit  = positions offered by recruitment agents

        Webster's II New Riverside Dictionary (1984) defines the noun
"recruit" as

                        A new member, esp. of a military force.

If these terms are used, then I anticipate confusion between
"entry" and "recruit".  The term "recruiter", "headhunter", "agency",
or "searchfirm" would be less confusing.

        No proposed category caters to those who are experienced
in the discipline but not expert in the assignment they desire
(e.g., someone with five years experience as system administrator
may want to design a LAN).  Dropping the "t" on "expert" would allow
both the understandings "expert" and "experienced".
--
        Peter L. Montgomery              Internet: pmontgom@math.ucla.edu
        Department of Mathematics, UCLA, Los Angeles, CA  90024-1555  USA
Go Bruins!  This Bruin PhD wants to go solve your problems.
Interests include computational mathematics, compilers, and number theory.
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.manga
From: kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry)
Subject: Re: Another problem with rec.arts.comics.{manga/japan}
Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 04:18:24 GMT

In article <axolotl.702885083@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au writes:
>The "culture" associated with manga culture has almost no overlap with
>the associated (rec.arts.) comics culture.  

Except for the Far Side strips in Mangajin.  Except, those aren't
"sequential art"...

>With rec.arts.comics.manga or no mainstream manga group, it would be either
>rec.arts.comics.manga.strips or rec.arts.comics.strips.manga.  THAT'S
>an ugly namespace.

Hey!  Don't forget comp.sex.manga!  It's ESSENTIAL to my PLATONIC WELL-BEING!

						-- K.
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:49:29 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

pearl@romulus.rutgers.edu (Starbuck) writes:

>In article <30rjrhf@lynx.unm.edu> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:

>> Where groups belong is not based on where they should be created.  Anime
>> is a type of animation, so it belongs under rec.arts.animation.  Manga are
>> a type of comics, so it belongs under rec.arts.comics.

>Anime is the Japanese word for Animation, not a "type" of animation.
>When I purchase a Japanese magazine devoted to animation (Anime V,
>Newtype, Animedia, Animage), they are just as likely to cover Tiny
>Toons or Beauty & the Beast as Yamato.

    Good point. I, personally, have never read any anime mags, so I
wouldn't know what they print.

>rec.arts.animation was created for the readers who wished to read
>about non-japanese animation without slogging through rec.arts.anime.

    This is true. Thus a new group was created to handle the discussion
of non-Japanese forms of animation.

>Shouldn't Manga readers get the same courtesy?  
>(Btw, Manga is the Japanese word for Comics and not a type of Comics)

    To which courtesy are you referring here? There is no doub't in
anyone's mind, that I can see, that manga should get their own group. We
are not asking you to move your discussions into the already large
traffic volume of rec.arts.comics. We are asking that the the group,
which is devoted to the discussion of Japanese comic books, be placed
within the already existing hierarchy for comics related discussion. 

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen)
Subject: Re: r.a.manga vs r.a.c.manga - A Plea for Sanity
Organization: Waterloo Engineering Software
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:37:24 GMT

> cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon) writes:
>> It might be to you.  Some people think it's rather important to keep it all
>> consistent.  I shall be voting no if the CFV calls for rec.arts.manga.

axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Ian Sinclair) writes:
> Why is rec.arts.manga inconsistent?  rec.arts.manga is consistent
> with at least seven democratically determined naming precedents.

Two wrongs don't make right.  I, too, will vote no if the CFV is for
rec.arts.manga instead of rec.arts.comics.manga.

> If some net."god" doesn't think that democratically determined
> precedents should be respected, that opinion should be included in
> the newsgroup creation guidelines.

Respect for poor group names is irrelevant.  The least we can do is to vote
for keeping new group names consistent.

[ \tom haapanen    "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
[ tomh@wes.on.ca                   "trust the programmer" -- ansi c standard ]
[ waterloo engineering software      "to thine own self be true" -- polonius ]
From: ahooper@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (hoop)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RESULTS:  rec.music.{info,marketplace} pass {214: 14,206:22}
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:59:05 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


Can anyone give me a pointer to the soundtrack to
the movie Ladyhawke.  I am mailing this strictly for
this information, so please respond by email to
ahooper@eniac.seas.upenn.edu.  Thanks.
--
       |
 /~~\| |/~~~\  /~~\   /~~\  |/~~\   /~~\  |/~~\
(    | |    | (    ) (    ) |    ) (----) |     @eniac.seas.upenn.edu
 \__/| |    |  \__/   \__/  |\__/   \__   |
From: rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Some comments on this rec.arts.{whatever}.manga
Date: 10 Apr 1992 15:54:59 GMT

In article <3922@airs.com>, ian@airs.com (Ian Lance Taylor) writes:
> 
> The purpose of a newsgroup name is to unambiguously describe the
> contents of the newsgroups, and to allow easy distribution control in
> news sys files.  Good reasons for choosing rec.arts.manga are ``nobody
> will be able to find it under rec.arts.comics'' or ``people will think
> the newsgroup is restricted to the discussion of those manga that are
> comics'' or ``news sites which receive rec.arts.comics will not want
> to receive rec.arts.comics.manga'' (note that demonstrating the
> contrapositive is not useful, since it is just as easy to add
> rec.arts.comics.manga to a sys file as it is to add rec.arts.manga).

 I want to second this comment and hope that it is read and understood by the
 proponents of rec.arts.manga. In fact, it is easier for a site which is 
 already receiving a selected news feed to include the manga group when it is
 created; do nothing since if the site already has rec.arts.comics in its
 sys file, it will get the subgroups automatically. To add mage if it is
 named as rec.arts.manga will require that the news administrator explicitly
 add it to his/her sys file entry. 

 Nothing in the arguments have indicated to me that mange is 'different' than
 other comics that it needs a separate hierarchy. As Ian indicated, the name
 is designed to allow people to locate a group on a topic and to allow a news
 administrator to manage the flow of news. For the second reason, if a new 
 group fits into an existing hierarchy then it should reside in that hierarchy.

 As far as the 'charge' that this implies manga is 'inferior' to 'comics', 
 nothing could be further from the truth. It actually implies that the topic
 was important enough [in the sense of traffic and interest] that it was broken
 out from the parent into is own group. People need to understand that many of
 the older groups [and I think that rec.arts.comics was originally net.comics]
 were created with the idea that lower level groups would be created from the
 higher as required. This is why there is a rec.autos not a rec.autos.misc
 or a rec.comics not a rec.comics.misc [and rec.arts.sf-lovers]. The creation 
 of a misc group as the home for a hierarchy is a recent trend and the older
 groups should not be held to the new scheme. (And yes, I know there are 
 exceptions to this observation.) No one complained that rec.arts.comics.strips
 somehow made comic strips 'inferior' to comics.

  I also agree with Jay and others that if the CFV comes in asrec.arts.manga,I
 will vote no but I will vote yes for rec.arts.comics.manga
-- 
Richard H. Miller                 Email: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
Asst. Dir. for Technical Support  Voice: (713)798-3532
Baylor College of Medicine        US Mail: One Baylor Plaza, 302H
                                           Houston, Texas 77030
From: mwfolsom@hydra.unm.edu (Mike Folsom)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD for new IMAGE PROCESSING newsgroup
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:52:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.k+zjqsj
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque


Help!

I've just been alerted to this discussion via the confocal microscope
mailing list.  So, right now I feel a bit behind the curve.  Is there
a proposal floating somewhere detailing what this group will cover?

I think creating an image processing group is a great idea and 
the title " comp.image-proc " is fine with me but I'd still like 
to know what the group is to be about.  That's not only for me 
but it might be good to post such a statement to bionet.general
so people there would know of this discussion.

Be well -

Michael

 
       I've been told to keep my remarks relatively brief.
                     I understand Quayle-hunting season begins at noon.

                                       -- V. P. Dan Quayle at Eau Claire, Wisc.
                                                    (LA Times  10/16/88)
_______________________________________________________________________________
M.W.Folsom/Biology/UNM/Albuqueerque,NM87131/505.277.4228/mwfolsom@unmvm.unm.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal)
Subject: Re: No New Enya News Group!!
Organization: Unicom Systems Development, Austin, TX
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 03:47:23 GMT

>Really?  What about a uucp site that gets rec.music.* but none of alt?  How
>are they supposed to do this?  This describes a fairly significant number of
>sites.

Geee.  And why do you think it is that more and more sites are shutting
down the Altnet?  Maybe it has something to do with the fact that once
in a while Usenet works properly and a poorly conceived newsgroup
creation is prevented, where on Altnet any tripe and drivel can get
through.  (existence proof:  John Palmer)

Today's clue for those desperately in need - learn about mailing lists.
-- 
Chip Rosenthal  512-482-8260 | Let the wayward children play.  Let the wicked
Unicom Systems Development   | have their day.  Let the chips fall where they
<chip@chinacat.Unicom.COM>   | may.  I'm going to Disneyland.  -Timbuk 3
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume)
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:54:03 GMT

hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (I) write:
>
>>Please don't be offended that I feel that domestic comics and manga
>>should be at the same hierarchical level.  To me, it's very intuitive.
>

[BTW: I'm no longer defending any particular naming convention.]

>    Rec.arts.comics exists for the discussions of all type, forms,
>shapes, sizes of graphical novels, or sequential art (seems to be the
>new buzzword term).
>                    ... [M]anga readers decieded not to post to the
>appropriate group for their discussion, and now seem to feel warrant a
>place in the hierarchical structure that, for them, holds some
>non-existent value.
>    This is what offends me about this whole debate.

[I'll address the "appropriate group" phrase.]
No one argues that manga doesn't fit under such a broad definition.  
The reason the alt.manga was spawned from rec.arts.anime instead of
rec.arts.comics is because the readers who were fan-boys of manga usually
were also fan-boys and anime.  A fan-boy could post in *anime and be sure
to have an interested audience.

It doesn't matter what group you *define* to be appropriate.  Practically,
there will be more cross-posts and interest between *.manga and rec.arts.anime
than between *manga and rec.arts.comics.  This is simply a *consequence*
of people's interests.  This was not a *conscious* choice of the parties
involved.

I'd hate to see rec.arts.comics.manga win, and the you get upset because
the manga group will still tend to keep closer ties to rec.arts.anime even
though it is defined to be less appropriate.

--David
PS "fan-boy" as used above, is gender neutral.  Egads... :-)
From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.games.frp reorg
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:49:10 GMT
Distribution: news
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

Are we getting to a good point to go to a vote? I haven't seen very many
postings recently; those I have seen seem to be about two points:

(a) Should rec.games.frp.dnd be in the split we vote on?

    The main argument against is that it doesn't fit in with any theoretical
    framework for the split - i.e. it isn't genre-based, it isn't strictly
    speaking game-based (it comprises 3 games), it isn't company-based (TSR
    make other games), etc., etc., etc. (Personally, I doubt that *any*
    theoretical framework of this nature is going to be acceptable to the
    majority, but that's another matter.)

    The main argument for is pragmatic: D&D-specific postings make up a very
    substantial, identifiable section of rec.games.frp traffic.

    One point I would make: this split proposal seems to be based on doing
    two things. One is to split out some small, easily identifiable sections
    of the traffic (r.g.f.marketplace, r.g.f.archive, etc.); the other is to
    split out a large chunk of what remains in as painless a manner as
    possible (r.g.f.dnd). It's by no means completely painless - but does
    anyone have any better suggestion for this part of the split?

    If not, we can't remove r.g.f.dnd from the proposal without completely
    disrupting it. So let's vote on it as it stands.

(b) Should rec.games.frp.cyber be in the split we vote on?

    I would like r.g.f.cyber to come into existence. But there do seem to me
    to be very good reasons to defer voting on it, simply because of the
    problems we could get into about rec.games.cyber. (Consider the attempt
    in the first rec.arts.sf-lovers ballot to bring rec.arts.startrek into
    the same hierarchy. It *might* have been a good idea, but it made the
    discussion reach critical mass...)

    From what I've seen, there seems to be no objection to holding a vote
    about rationalising the cyber newsgroup a few months after this vote. A
    few months' delay is a low price to pay on Usenet for avoiding
    controversy!

One final point in favour of going to a vote: we're now beyond the end of
the standard (:-) 30 day discussion period.

David Seal
dseal@armltd.co.uk

All opinions are mine only...
Date:  9 Apr 92 09:09:21 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:

 >jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim) writes:
 >
 >> ...manga fans have been posting to r.a.anime for years.  They get better
 >> responses in an animation group than in a comic group.  Does that tell
 >> you something?  
 >
 >Sure.  It tells me that fans of Japanese animation and Japanese comics
 >tend to cluster together.  I knew that to start with, and it isn't a fact
 >that should be used in deciding where a new newsgroup belongs.

Uh, why not?  We have a situation where the traffic is finding itself
everywhere except rec.arts.comics, and a loud minority is still insisting
that it be shoehorned into rec.arts.comics.  Beats me.


 >If you folks think the "Japan"ness of the media is more important than
 >their "animation"ness or "comic"ness, you should run a vote to create a
 >rec.arts.japan hierarchy for rec.arts.japan.anime and rec.arts.japan.manga.

Nobody is suggesting it, nobody is implying it.  We've arrived at
rec.arts.manga after a lot of informed discussion.   That discussion
includes consideration of "the field as it exists now"  (as stated
before, and as will probably be stated a dozen more times).


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
From: ross@spam.ua.oz.au (Ross Williams)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: CALL FOR DISCUSSION: COMP.COMPRESSION.THEORY.
Summary: CALL FOR DISCUSSION: COMP.COMPRESSION.THEORY.
Keywords: comp.compression.theory new group
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:02:46 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide


CALL FOR DISCUSSION: COMP.COMPRESSION.THEORY
============================================
It is proposed that a new newsgroup be created:

   Name    : comp.compression.theory
   Charter : Discussions about data compression algorithms.
   Status  : Unmoderated.

Many researchers have stopped reading comp.compression because of the
volume of non-research traffic (e.g. postings with subject fields such
as "Where can I get Unix compress for MSDOS?"). There is now a strong
need for a newsgroup that can provide a forum for more theoretical
discusions about data compression and data compression algorithms.
Such a newsgroup would assist those who are actually involved in
understanding and developing new algorithms as opposed to merely using
them.

The suffix ".theory" is designed to scare off those who want to
discuss specific computer programs. The term "algorithms" in the
charter is designed to lure back those who got so scared that they
decided it must be a newsgroup for information theorists. It is
intended that the scope of the newsgroup range from information theory
to practical algorithm construction, but no further.

Timetable
---------
Tue 14-Apr-1992 Call for discussion (deadline for agreement 14-May-1992).
Tue 28-Apr-1992 Call for votes.
Thu 21-May-1992 Last day on which votes will be received.
Fri 22-May-1992 Posting of vote tally. 5 day waiting period.
Thu 28-May-1992 Creation of comp.compression.theory.

In accordance with the guidelines for newgroup creation, discussion
about the creation of this newsgroup will take place in "news.groups".

I am sending this message to a few key newsgroups and also to all
those who voted in the comp.compression vote about one year ago. I
urge you to support this proposal which has the potential to
significantly assist data compression researchers around the world.

Ross Williams
ross@spam.adelaide.edu.au
(Creator of comp.compression)
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: cjudd@esk (Craig Thomas Judd)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 09:36:55 GMT

>> The people who will post to the new group want it to be rec.arts.manga;
>> the people who won't want it to be rec.arts.comics.manga. 
>
>Stupid assumption; I'd subscribe to rec.arts.comics.manga the day it was
>created here, and I'm the person arguing loudest for its creation under
>rec.arts.comics.
>Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)

Hmm, have you subscribed to alt.manga? Would you subscribe to rec.arts.manga
the day it was created, or does the name mean that much to you?

Although I don't really want to dive headfirst into this discussion, I will
try to give my opinions pro the name rec.arts.manga.

As has been stated before, manga are different to western comics. While they
may BE comics, the name rec.arts.comics has, by and large, become known to be
the repository for western comics: it has the same sort of intrinsic meaning
that r.g.frp has. Before the creation of alt.manga, or its arrival at many
sites, many of the manga fans did NOT post to r.a.comics as much as they did
to rec.arts.anime. We need our own space, individually placed and individually
named. 

If the group were to be named r.a.comics.manga, we would feel bunched in with
all the intrinsic meanings of "comics", which as explained, has come to mean,
on the Net, Western comics. 

Yours debatably;

-- 
   \/\  "Men, we're going to the Olympics."  The Colonel, Akira (movie)  /\/
====\/\       "You REFUSE to drink my wine...?"  Kahm, Outlanders       /\/====
=====\/\      *** WANT ANY MANGA ARTWORK DONE? Just email me! ***      /\/=====
      \/\   cjudd@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au    a.k.a. Kuro to Shiroi   /\/
From: jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:55:14 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: jingoro

In article <1992Apr12.192940.4146@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner) writes:
>
>If you don't like my opinion or care about my vote, feel free to ignore
>me. Your kill file is only a few commands away. My ego has better things
>to be worried about than the net. Really.
>

If you don't agree with my points, feel free to ignore them.  Your kill
file is only a few commands away.  My ego has better things to be
worried about than the net.  Really.



--
Jun Kim                                         jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.Com
Sun Microsystems                               
Mountain View, CA                            "..ck me gently with a chainsaw" 
Xref: sparky news.groups:10444 rec.radio.amateur.misc:7798
From: emmayche@apple.com (Mark Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: rec.radio.amateur.public-service proposal is dead
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:19:05 GMT

Although all but one of the responses posted or mailed to me have been
positive, the very slight volume (< 20) indicates to me that this is
not the time for this group.  At the very least, the lack of enthusiasm
does not encourage me to pursue the matter.

If anyone else wants to pick up the ball and run with it, I'll support
them.

Thanks to everyone who responded.
=====
Mark Hartman, N6BMO
emmayche@apple.com
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin