HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rarobert@ursa9.cs.utah.edu (Robin Roberts)
Subject: Re: Boyancy control with drysuits
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:37:54 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

>   How does using only your BC stop flooded suits?  How does it make a
>   flooded suit warmer?  Everyone posting here on the side of using
>   their dry suit for bouyancy control has stated that the BC should be
>   used on the surface.

A little misunderstanding here - let me try and clear up the intent of my
post.  I was addressing my remarks to a) divers who have not yet 
learned to control their bouyancy perfectly in a dry suit, and b) divers
who use a dry suit without a BC.  A more clear statement of my opinion
would be:  a BC is an extremely important piece of SAFETY gear when diving
with a dry suit.  

>
>    The problem you cite is more likely to occur if you have to
>    adjust air in two devices.  The accidents you mention are equally
>    available to all divers.  Too much air in either will cause them.
>
Agreed. 
 
                                    robin roberts



Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: VIP/HYDRO & air fills?
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:34:35 GMT

   I have a Question regarding visual inspections and hydrostatic testing.  I
buy most of my scuba gear used, and most of my tanks were out of hydro when
I bought them.  So I took them to a testing station, had them hydro'd, They
passed (most do I've been informed).  Well when I have the tanks filled, some
air stations refuse to fill the tanks that had just been hydro'd.  Because
the tanks were not visualed.  As I was later informed by the hydro facility,
they visual all the tanks they test.  So why must a tank have a visual sticker
for the first year after hydro?  The new tanks I've seen typically don't have
a visual sticker on them. What gives?  Is there a technical reason or an
ecomonic reason or no reason?  My usual air station is aware of the visual
aspect of hydro testing and does not require a visual sticker in the first
year.




                                               Kris
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: adb@herboid.uucp (Anthony DeBoer)
Subject: Re: That Rodale magazine
Organization: Linda's Dragon Memorial Society
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:36:34 GMT

M. J. Saltzman <mjs@hubcap.clemson.edu> writes:
>Does anyone know the real story of how DAN members came to get that
>new magazine from Rodale (is it Scuba Diving)?  I just noticed that 
>my "subscription" is only for 4 months.  I was wondering if it will
>keep coming when I re-up with DAN, or if it was just a marketing 
>gimmick and I'm going to start getting notices for renewals that I
>have to pay for.

If you look on the inside front cover of the July/August issue of
_Alert_Diver_, DAN's magazine, there's a letter from the Director
assuring the membership that the member list is being held in
strictest confidence.  In part, he says:

"In regard to _Scuba_Diving_, the new magazine from Rodale Press,
complimentary copies were sent to all DAN members.  However, a third party
was employed under strict secrecy guarantees to send out the magazine so
that no one, including Rodale Press, would have access to our mailing
list."

As far as renewals go, Rodale can't ask you to pay for the magazine when
they don't even know who you are.  The copies we're getting are
complementary, perhaps partly because Rodale likes DAN, but mostly because
they figure if they can impress people with the first few issues, people
will start sending in for subscriptions.  It's part of the cost of
starting up a new business.
-- 
Anthony DeBoer                       | Why watch TV, when Netnews provides
adb@herboid.uucp | adb@geac.com      | 100% of your daily requirement for
uunet!geac!herboid!adb               | trivia and meaningless entertainment?
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: merrill@stsci.edu (Clark)
Subject: Re: Big Stingray - Cape Cod
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: usa,local
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:43:18 GMT

> 
> At Stingray City in the North sound of Grand Cayman, I had the honor of 
> swimming with about 20 Southern Stingrays ranging from babies at about 
> 18" diameter to some large ones near 4 feet. It still ranks as one of my 
> more memorable dives. My biggest danger on the dive was keeping the water 

The first time I was at Stingray city was in 1987.  This was before it
made National Geographic and all the other Dive Rags.  (It was neat having
a picture of something before it made National Geographic)  The first time
they were graceful and it was no problem, it was a great dive. 

The second time I went was in 1989.  This time there were Yellowtails
mixed in with the stingrays.  This had the stingrays competing for food. 
The stingrays were not gentle.  The Yellowtail had made it harder for the 
rays to get food and made them take a more aggressive approach to eating.
The first time I was there, we had no problems.  The second time, numerous 
scraped fingers and a few divers that were almost bowled over by the rays.  
I cut out of the dive ofter 15 minutes.  I was told by the instructor leading 
the trip that it did not get any better.

I will be back to Caymon in October, it will be interesting to see how the
behavior of the rays has changed.  I want to be the first one in the water
so I can get a picture of the rays coming out of nowhere.  I took a 
beautifully composed picture of this in 1989, butit  was at least 2 stops 
under exposed.  Even if the Rays are a disappointment, maybe I can retake 
this picture.

Clark B. Merrill                        PADI OWSI# 26852
Space Telescope Science Institute
Baltimore, Maryland
merrill@stsci.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scuba,news.answers
From: FKK@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Boyancy control with drysuits
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:22:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: SLACVM.92232.102214FKK
 <1992Aug17.101658.6971@hellgate.utah.edu>
 <1992Aug18.235013.17159@syacus.acus.oz.au>
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

I dive with a custom made Harvey's neoprene dry suit.  My first experience
diving without a BCD was my last.  It is not possble to stay on the
surface with your head out of the water.  If you are content to stay
horizontal at the surface you can keep air in the suit, otherwise it burps
out the neck seal.  Now I use a BCD only at the surface, deflate it
entirly on the way down and use the suit for bouyancy control for the dive.
I dump air on the way up out the neck seal.  Once on the surface I use
my BCD again. Since the suit fits me so well I cant really get enough
air in the feet to cause an uncontrolled feet first ascent. I'm tall and
thin and a dry suit is the only way for me to dive Monterey.  I even
wear this suit for free diving up north.  The squeeze when I hit to 25-30 foot
range is noticable but tolerable.  The problem is overheating at times.
From: mayne@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: computer recomendations?
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:33:20 GMT
Reply-To: mayne@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1992Aug20.174517.1153@mksol.dseg.ti.com> pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com writes:
>
>The ascent monitor (which is becoming more common)
>is probably the second most important feature on dive computers.  (The first is
>brand, right?? :-)

Actually I neglected to mention that one feature which neither Aladin has
which I would like, but can easily live without, is an ascent rate indicator,
not just an alarm.

>My only two decompression dives weren't planned as such, I was lead man on the
>first buddy team for a deep dive class and drag on the way up.  Well things got
>drawn out, people got delayed and next thing you know ...  (Not diving your
>plan is never an excuse, mea culpa)

Hopefully such unplanned decompression dives involve only what I would call
minor decompression, comparable to PADI's "emergency decompression" rules
and just about any computer should be able to handle such decompressions.
Say a maximum of 15 minutes at 10 feet. It is quite possible you wouldn't
have been in decompression mode at all according to a less conservative
computer. Some computers just throw up their hands if you get to where a
stop deeper than 30 feet is required. Whether or not that matters depends
upon the kind of diving you do. Surely you wouldn't get into decompressions
with stops 40 feet or deeper without planning.

Bill Mayne
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: adb@herboid.uucp (Anthony DeBoer)
Subject: Re: scuba classes
Organization: Linda's Dragon Memorial Society
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 02:17:46 GMT

Greg Wolgamot <wolgamot@milton.u.washington.edu> writes:
>As to how agencies compare, I would like to share my experience.  I was 
>originally certified through YMCA in Montana in 1984.  Later, wanting to
>continue my education, I enrolled in a PADI advances course.  Come to find
>out, my YMCA basic was much more rigorous than the PADI advanced.  In the 
>YMCA basic, we spent  four 3 hour pool sessions (one per week) on snorkeling
>and swimming skills, before we were allowed to touch a tank.  We did
>numerous doff and dons, gear recoveries, and station breathing exercises
>over the next month.  Finally, we spent several pool sessions on emergency
>practices such as six man buddy breathing (to teach us control and discipline)
>and CPR.
>     The PADI course, on the other hand, had us breathing SCUBA within two
>hours of the first pool session.  There were only about five pool sessions, 
>as opposed to twelve for YMCA.  We didn't buddy breathe at all until the last
>night.  And, to top it off, it cost $20 more.

Do bear in mind that a basic course and an advanced course are two different
things.  The first assumes you're starting off knowing nothing about diving
and tries to teach all the essentials, and the second assumes you already
know everything from the basic course and skips ahead to try to teach you
new things.

The other thing it sounds like you ran into is overlap.  What I've been
told is that back in the Bad Old Days (tm), there was only the basic
course and the instructor course.  It took a lot of time and effort to
pass either one and the dropout rate was high.  The basic course was later
split into a more basic course, teaching only the essentials so that one
could start doing easy dives without the instructor, and an advanced
course to teach all the other things a diver should know.  It could be
that the YMCA (or the individual instructor) still teaches a fuller basic
course than PADI does, which leads to PADI's second level picking up
midway through what you already knew.  They tend a bit more to shorter
easier-to-handle courses.

Also, if your original course was through a university, there might have
been minimum course lengths to gain academic credit as well as the C-card,
and the instructor may have added material to meet university requirements.
-- 
Anthony DeBoer   NAUI # Z8800, D5482 | Why watch TV, when Netnews provides
adb@herboid.uucp | adb@geac.com      | 100% of your daily requirement for
uunet!geac!herboid!adb               | trivia and meaningless entertainment?
From: Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Boyancy control with drysuits
Date: 13 Aug 92 00:58:20 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

In article <1992Aug12.191716.11186@bmerh85.bnr.ca> scribler@bnr.ca
(Dennis Richards) writes:

>Can any of you drysuit experts explain how to handle
>boyancy control with drysuits?

     (I'm not an expert but I look good in a green suit. :-)

     When ascending I try to be very alert for increasing buoyancy
so I can react immediately by dumping air before things get away
from me.  If I do start drifting upwards I can get a bit of time
to hit my BC by exhaling completely (and why does my mask always
flood when this happens? :-).

     When I first got my suit I used it for buoyancy control almost
to the the exclusion of my BC.  I've since changed my technique;
when I first start down I put just enough air in my suit to take
out the squeeze, then use my BC normally from there.  If I'm going
deep I might put a little more air in my suit farther down, but
that's about it.

     Coming up I'm primarily dumping air from my BC to keep my
buoyancy under control.  I don't usually have to worry about my
suit until I'm up to about 30 feet.  It does take a bit of work
to get air out of my suit sometimes (my valve is on my upper arm).
If I have to do it I kick my feet under me to get my body upright
and raise my left arm so that the valve is up high; this moves
most of the air in my suit up to the valve so I can let it out.

     Once I'm up to 15 or 20 feet I have to be careful, but by
dumping air frequently I can keep things under control.  By then,
though, both my BC and suit will be pretty much empty.  I have a
neoprene suit; I suppose if anything it'll be a bit trickier due
to its compression at depth (and expansion as I get shallow).

     One more thing: Do you have enough weight?  Once you've run
your tank down to 500 psi you're about 5 pounds lighter than when
you started.  You should be able to comfortably stay at 10 or 15
feet when your suit, BC, and tank are all empty (well, I might be
a bit uncomfortable if my tank was _completely_ empty :-).

     DISCLAIMER: I'll probably go out on Sunday, pay attention to
what I'm doing for a change, and find out that this is all bunk
and I really do it completely differently...

Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Looking for Career info in Hyperbaric Medicine
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:12:43 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <rasmussenc.25.0@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu> rasmussenc@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu writes:
>
>Hi everyone - 
>
>	Does anyone know of any educational programs aimed at delivering 
>people with the necessary skills into this [Hyperbaric Medicine] career?
>

Chris -
This may be hard for a Wahoo to take, but:

Get on 29.  Go south until you hit I-85 at Greensboro.  Take I-85 east
for about 40 minutes.  You're now at Duke.  You're at the center of
Hyperbaric medicine studies in the country.  I don't know specifically about
their hyperbaric medicine programs, but with the tons of research they do
on it, they should have a lot of related educational programs.

Regards,  Lee Jones (Duke '78)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: lls@kings.demon.co.uk (Lady Lodge Systems)
Subject: Re: Boyancy control with drysuits
Organization: Lady Lodge Systems
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:21:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.223225.529@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson) writes:
>
>I believe that some British dry suits incorporate an "AP valve" in the wrist or
>ankle.  It is basically a "flapper valve" set to open a preset difference in
>pressure between the inside and the outside of the suit.
>
>I have never seen one (I've only read about them) and I'm not sure how well 
>they work.

Indeed, quite a few (neoprene) Dry Suits in the UK are fitted with
non-adjustable valves normally, in my experience, referred to as
'drager' valves.  AP Valves is a company making, amoungst other things,
suits valves of various flavours.

These 'drager' valves, are simply plastic housings around 4cm in
diameter and around 2cm deep containing a (silicon rubber?) diaphram.
When the pressure inside the suit is greater than the pressure outside,
plus whatever resistence is built into the diaphram, they let air out.

In practise, they are normally sited on the forearm and the arm is
raised above the head when the diver wants to dump air. I used to have one
on my Northern Diver neoprene Dry Suit and it always worked well.

Amusingly, quite a few Vicking owners, fit these valves onto the top of
the integral dry hoods in an attempt to stop them inflating - or it is
to let out the bubbles from their skull?

Nowadays, I dive in a DUI crushed neoprene suit fitted with an
adjustable dump valve.  On the descent, I inflate my suit, adjust the
valve to just stop squeeze and use my jacket to ensure that I'm
neutrally buoyant (remember that the suit is pre-crushed so less
buoyancy is lost on the decent than in a 'normal' noeprene suit).  

On the ascent, I use my jacket to actually control the ascent and the
suit vents automagically on the way up.  One of the reasons for doing
this, is that my 300bar twinset plus pony plus 4kg battery pack makes
for a heavy load on my back - having the jacket partly inflated helps
bear the load more comfortably!

-- 
Regards,
        Russell
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Russell Brown          | MAIL : russell@kings.demon.co.uk                 |
| Lady Lodge Systems     | PHONE: 0832 272224 (Home/Work it's all the same) |
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Death in Bonaire
Date: 15 Aug 1992 04:16:48 GMT
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston

A recent post on CompuServe said that there was an apparent diver death
on Bonaire recently.  A diver without a buddy was diving with one of the
major outfits there (not Sand Dollar or Divi) and was allowed to dive
solo.  Apparently, there were 2 groups on the boats and he tended to
follow one or the other group on the dives.  On a dive to the Southwest
Point of Kleine Bonaire they hit the water and found a stiff current,
which is not uncommon - on a trip last year Sand Dollar moved to an
alternate site after a current line showed a stiff current. The two
groups cut the dives short due to the current.  The solo diver never was
seen again.  An extensive sea and air search was negative. He may have
had heart trouble in his medical background.

Looks to me like multiple rules were broken here......
-- 
| Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
| hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov    SpokesPersonp(Me,or(NASA,LESC)) = NIL
| "No the game never ends when your whole
|       world depends on the turn of a friendly card"
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: wolgamot@milton.u.washington.edu (Greg Wolgamot)
Subject: Re: Dive Gear for Sale, Anyone?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:35:50 GMT

I've got a friend, recently certified, who is looking for some good used
equipment.  Is anyone in the SEATTLE AREA looking to sell something?
Please respond through E-mail.  Thank you.

						-Greg
From: max@queernet.org (Max J. Rochlin)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: DAN - should I join now?
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:45:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: QueerNet

I've recently been hearing that DAN is in financial straights.  
Do you think it's wise to join now?  I haven't been a member for
a couple of years, but since I'm going on a dive trip soon I've
been thinking of re-joining. 

Any comments are welcome.

-- 
|  max@queernet.org  |   Max J. Rochlin   |  {uunet,mips,decwrl}!unpc!max  |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|      If everything is coming your way then you're in the wrong lane.     |
From: sander@hawai.inria.fr (Peter Sander)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Tubas?  Scuba!
Date: 21 Aug 92 09:13:02 GMT
Reply-To: sander@hawai.inria.fr
Organization: INRIA Sophia, Robotvis

In article <1992Aug19.200103.1@vax1.umkc.edu>, ttasset@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
|> I was looking for a newsgroup that had to do with anything about tubas, but
|> since this is the closest sounding one, I thought that I would just say...

A judicious choice - you might be interested to know that the french translation
of "snorkel" is..."tuba"!
From: awpsys@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Dry suit buoyance control
Reply-To: awpsys@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:57:17 GMT

In article <Bsy1Dn.C7s@nntp-sc.Intel.COM>, rwu@ismdqa.intel.com (Ronnie Wu ) writes:
>
>	1. Never use it to replace the BC.
>
Interesting.   This is precicely the opposite that DUI recommends for
dry suit diving.   Their owners manual says that that the BC should only be
used for surface flotation.  The argument they state is that since it is 
impossible to get ALL the air out of the dry suit so the diver is always
having to deal with two independant air bladders when they use their BC for
underwater bouyancy.

DUI goes on to say that bouyancy problems in dry suits are most of the time
the result of overweighting.   A properly weighted diver should hang
at eyebrow level in the water with a full breath of air in the lungs, suit
as empty as possible, BC empty, and 500 PSI in the tank.  On exhaling, you
should sink slowly..

They say that with the exception of regular neoprene drysuits, the bouyancy
characteristics of a properly weighted diver will not change with depth.

Unfortunately I cannot offer any personal experience to this discussion as I am
new to drysuit diving having just received my DUI CF200SP.

- Andy
From: daryl@dman.b24a.ingr.com (Daryl Owens)
Subject: YMCA - CMAS conversion
Organization: Intergraph Corporation
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:08:20 GMT

 
|> > ------
|> > 
|> > I hold certifications from YMCA, PADI, CMAS and NSS-CDS.  One of the  
|> nice
|> > things about YMCA and CMAS is if you hold a certification in one, all
|> > you have to do is submit the money and paperwork to receive an equal
|> > certification in the other.
|> > 
|> > Daryl Owens
|> > YMCA/CMAS - AI
|> > 
|> 
|> Sounds nice ...
|> can you give some details?
|> adress, how much money, paperwork??
|> 
|> Happy
|> Jan
--------------------------------

Well Jan, bad news.  

I just called YMCA National HQ about conversions from CMAS to YMCA.  
YMCA does NOT allow for a direct conversion from CMAS to YMCA.  You can 
convert YMCA to CMAS with $10 (US) and a copy of your C-card but the 
conversion is not reversable.  This really surprised me!  I thought it 
would be a two-way street. 

As for the other certifying agencies, I have not heard of any conversion
possibilities in either direction.  I do know that that of the diving 
areas here in the Southeast US (Huntsville, AL - Birmingham, AL - Panama
City, FL) I have not had a problem using my CMAS card.

If you have any other questions, let me know.

-Daryl-