HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tsai@tecrus.enet.dec.com (Kuo-Yeang Tsai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Translated Taiwanese Poem (3)
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:31:07 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation



	In Mourning of Someone		written by Young2 Mu4
					translated by Kuo-Yeang Tsai

I.

That night, it was said that just like others
you were hit by the light of stars, fell, through the shadow of woods,
along the curve of tile edge onto the potato garden
faced down as if listening to a magnificient 
legend -- sword and dust
and eloquently spoke of something
else. Starlight conversed

Conversation: A dog barked feebly in a far deep lane
fireflies were there over the weed around the watergate
rain and cloud passed over Da4 Tung2 Mountain
and a solitary boat waved in the harbor. Starlight
consulted with your losing thoughts about
your basis of day and night. No more Cicada's song in memories
only the clashing of leather and wrought iron along the corridor was heard
Humidity was increasing, and filled up the entire basin
Blood sugar expectedly decreased


II.

In the west were insects and azaleas,
a little stream barely carried floating leaves
Darkness was then thick to the west, 
you pressed ear over the ground and listened
only the motion of earthworms turning their bodies poking the 
earth, and the earth probably would quietly bid farewell to 
and receive a broad-shouldered young boy. You
pressed ear over the ground and listened

You heard drumbeats obscurely from somewhere
faintly from the past pages of history
on and off. It was dark on the roof
startlight was still twinkling and debating, inside the window
power lines roamed across each other
A bookworm awoke, yarned
with a nervous and apprehensive heart, then it
crawled over Gwe3-Gu3-Tz3, appraoched the corpse
arrived at your fingers and remained
wordless


III.

Azaleas turned to the other direction
when moonlight shone all over the dry road,
and noticed engines and motors drove towards the end
and circled once around the rotary, like birds fluttering away
In the wind there was smell of sweat, blood, and tears, or
perhpas it was from books, tubes, machine oil
and number 6 riceseed,  maybe it's the past
when you raced through the blooming azaleas
in the March drizzle

Then you heard someone beneath the ground
sigh, the voice was like that of growing leaves
stretching roots, fulfilled and precise
Like dews condensed upon buds, moonlight thus had entirely illuminated 
the thread of light perseverely peircing into the hot wind
A dog feebly barked in the far deep lane


Note: Gwe3-Gu3-Tz3 (ghost valley son) was the teacher of the two most
      famous strategists during Warring Nation Era, namely, Chang1 Chin2 
      and Su1 Yi2.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ctiao@riemann.math.purdue.edu (Chieh-Hsien Tiao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: US born kids
Date: 17 Aug 92 03:35:06 GMT
Reply-To: ctiao@riemann.math.purdue.edu (Chieh-Hsien Tiao)
Organization: Purdue University

In article <Bt13x8.73p@acsu.buffalo.edu> stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shuoh-Ren Tsai) writes:
>If you tell Taiwanese students the same thing, job in US, the answers are as
>follows:
> [ deleted ]
>What do you think?
>
>---   Shuoh-Ren Tsai                        stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu   

One thing is sure for me:

I went college and graduate school with that low tuition because those tax
payer who might even not have chance to attand college paid all the rest
for me. I know that place might be much worse than USA, so that's why they
pay tax and educate their young men. I would say those educated people are
hopes of Taiwan. Unfortunately, most of those educated young guys are un-
willing to go back because Taiwan is not good enough to satisfy their desire.

To me, going back is an obligation, because all my life, I will bear the
name of Taiwanese or Chinese (whatever), and my son too, no matter how I try
to change my citizenship. I feel shame to be a Taiwanese or Chinese because
my ancestor did not work hard enough, and I don't want my baby to feel the
same. I know one thing: Honour and glory come from hard working, in stead
of finding a country with honour and glory and working hard on making
himself its citizen.

I am not saying you are obligated to go back. It's find for any one to seek
their dream. I am just saying that I'd rather put my dream on Taiwan.

Jason Tiao
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: aa727@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Johnny Wu)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Chinese Text Editor/Word Processor
Reply-To: aa727@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Johnny Wu)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 22:05:26 GMT


In a previous article, scy1@ra.msstate.edu (Steven C. Yang) says:

>lulu@ucrmath.ucr.edu (david lu) writes:
>
>>Hello.  I am desperately in need of a Chinese text editor
>>or word processor for the MS-DOS platform.  I have BYX,
>>but it uses the simplified characters from China rather
>>than the complicated characters that I am more familiar
>>with.
>
>>I have heard of ET.  Is this a public domain program?
>>If so, can someone please mail me a copy?  If it's
>>commercial, can someone tell me where I can purchase
>>it in the US?
>
>>Information on any other Chinese editors will be greatly
>>appreciated.  Thanks 1e6!
>
>>			- David
>
>   You should be able to find CWP (Chinese Word Processor), and 
>NJSTAR at FTP site
>
>	ahkcus.org          directories /CWP  and  /NJSTAR
>
>  NJSTAR has both simplified characters and complicated characters.
>You will need to configure the software from the menu bar.
>A
>   About ET, I have no information about it, but I would also
>like to know more about it.
>
>Steven Yang
>scy1@ra.msstate.edu 
>

ET is not a public domain software, the latest version works on Windows
3.0 (as I heard) and you can order it from Taiwan, the price, I have no
idea about it.

Microsoft also have a Chinese version, the Chinese Windows 3.0, it is
a nice program, you can incorporate all Windows softwraes with Chinese
writing. 

ANother 'company' released a Chinese Windows 3.1 version $179, I have
not yet tried it but it said to be good too.

-- 
No one is a failure... Keep up your dream and you will find it!
Ask always WISDOM from God!
From: thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: WSR & BSR
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:45:49 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <1992Aug12.194547.2984@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> hhwu@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (eric.wu) writes:
>
>If I am supposed to dislike the WSR, would somebody explain 
>to me why?
>
>Eric

I dislike the word WSR so I propose the word 49er instead.  These 49ers
are Taiwanese and Taiwan is a state not province.  In San Francisco,
49ers arrived in 1849; in Taiwan, 49ers arrived in 1949.

A boundle of 49ers along with some other Taiwanese "elites" are only
interested in pulling their own childrens into important positions of
power and money.  Connection has been valued over efforts and merrits.
Rest of 49ers and Taiwanese are going to suffer from this kind of
poisonous culture of family feudalism.  There should be some form of
affirmative action in Taiwan based on the proportional representation
not solely on ethnicity but also parents' income and profession.

You should not dislike anyone you do not know.

TY Huang
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:11920 soc.culture.china:23063
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Can we not all get along?
Date: 16 Aug 92 20:57:57 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Aug15.011837.17650@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) writes:
>Barriers within Taiwan and surrounding Taiwan are not similar to begin
>with.  

How are they dissimilar?

>I really don't know this Mr. Tang, sorry.

Mr. Charles Tang is the person who helped to start this thread.  From
what I gather of his postings, he immigrated to the United States
around the age of 12. 

My question is, if Mr. Tang (who resides in the United States) is to
be included in this cohesive society that you spoke about, why should
another Mr. Tang (who resides in Fujian province) be excluded?
From: txc6266@ultb.isc.rit.edu (T.X. Cheng )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: (none)
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:11:07 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: txc6266@ultb

In article <9208200653.AA06701@hermes.hut.fi> pan@hermes.hut.fi (Huachen Pan) writes:
>Hi, netters
>
>I know that GNP per capita in Taiwan is about 1/3 of USA, Japan or Northern
>Europe. My question is what is the salary level in Taiwan? Someone told me
>that the salary level in Taiwan is almost the same as in other most advanced
>industrialized countries. It that true. If so, where the money comes from?
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                               Would you please explain it
                                               more detail ?  I can't under-
                                               stand.  Thanks.
>
>What is the social security system in Taiwan? I mean things like medical 
>insurence, education and other social wellware issues. Is Taiwan the same
>or similar to West Europe (free medicare and free education) or like America.
>
>What the authority do if somebody is unemployed?
>
>Huachen Pan
>Teknillinen Korkeakoulu
>
From: dickhoff@NERO.WUSTL.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Answer to a Question to Open Letter
Date: 16 Aug 92 16:24:59 GMT



In article <7062@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> blamb@rodan.hri.com (Bill Lambert) writes:
>In view of the "Open Letter to the Japanese Emperor" and
>some of the discussion related to that topic, I'd like to
>ask Chinese or Korean readers just exactly would be acceptable
>as an apology from the Japanese government or Emperor, and
>what constitutes "accepting responsibility".
[deleted for briefty]
>I guess this is important, because so many people expect something,
>but I'm not sure that they even know what they expect, and have
>those with expectations set a goal that will satisfy them?
>
>Please remember, the Emperor as a symbol without power, can only
>use his words. What are the good words he should say?
>
>Please be frank.

Mr. Lambert, your belwilderment is excusable, because you are not
Chinese.  Here I am completely frank with you in answering your
question.

We Chinese have no expectation on whatever the Japanese Emperor is 
going to say.  He should say anything at his own free will.  We 
just want to ask him a simple question:
How he think about Japanese army's deeds in China in WWII. 

  If he thinks it was glorious, then that's fine. 
  If he wants to be silent on this question, then that's fine too.
  If he thinks it was really shameful, then we expect he would 
     behave in a way as an ordinary human being when he feels 
     guilty and shameful.

Any more question?

-----------------

T.T.Wu
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Yes, Let's Not Talk about History (Was: Re: BANANAS)
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:06:45 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Aug12.154312.21920@news.columbia.edu> cwt2@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Charles W Tang) writes:

>Since I'm not into the political/government scene in Taiwan, may I ask you 
>if Taiwanese people now have at least half of the seats in the National
>Assembly?

Most of the National Assembly, Legislative Yuan, Cabinet, and KMT
Central Standing Committee consists of BSR.  The President is BSR as
is one of the three military chiefs.

>And
>I wasn't Taiwanese in my immediate past life either.  But today I'm
>Taiwanese, and I accept Taiwan, and that's exactly what anyone who
>wishes to have anything to do with Taiwan should do too!

What exactly does it mean to be Taiwanese?  And more importantly who
decides what it means to be Taiwanese?  

For example, if someone in Taiwan asserts "Mandarin ought to be the
official language of public schools because that's the standard
language of China of which Taiwan is a part" does that make him or her
"anti-Taiwanese"?  






Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12222 soc.culture.hongkong:10041 soc.culture.china:23561
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: [education] giving student numbers in secondary schools
Date: 21 Aug 92 10:56:52 -0600
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.china
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <9208201958.AA05091@efi.com>, dchung@efi.com (Daniel Chung) writes:

>      A related point seen above is that students are spread evenly
> according to the test results.  Thus 1st goes to class A (jia3?), 2nd
> goes to class B (i3), 3rd goes to class C (bing3), and so on.  What
> they can do is to look at the trait of students and put *similar* students
> in the same class, so that they can work with the same strengths and
> weeknesses.  In our secondary school in Hong Kong, we have academic
> "class-allotting tests" (fen1 ban1 shi'4), and we
> put students with similar strengths and traits together.
> 
> 					*Zhong* Qi-Iao, Hong Kong / U.S.A.

	** I think the Hong Kong way you described is bad.

	   Some schools in Taiwan used or are still using the same
	   system. 

	   In my time, we call those classes with inferior students to be
	   "Fun4 Nu2 Ban1" (release cow class). If your kid is in that
	   class, how would you feel?  I think this way of doing is ver
	   unfair.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thursday, 13 Aug 1992 21:23:45 CDT
From: <U38250@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: BANANAS (was Re: Thanks, buddy!)
 <1992Aug13.001121.9068@odin.corp.sgi.com> <92226.095658U38250@uicvm.uic.edu>
 <1992Aug13.211227.8515@cbfsb.cb.att.com>

In article <1992Aug13.211227.8515@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
(yung-kao.hsu) says:
>
>        Well, free speech does not equal to not taking responsibilities
>        for what you say.

  Please read articles carefully. I never said free speech was equal to
  not taking responsibility. I repeat my words again (with emphasis) :

  " Netnews is a system in which people express or exchange their own
  opinions without paying attention to who agree or who do not.
  ONLY IF IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW can nobody interfere with what people
  say.  This is part of the freedom of speech."
From: smw@unity.ncsu.edu (Shawkang Wu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: setting up FAQ
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:37:11 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: /usr/local/lib/rn/organization

In article <1992Aug14.040829.1938@oskgate0.mei.co.jp> claude@oskgate0.mei.co.jp (CLAUDE Huss) writes:
>Hi Fellows!
>
>	Someone could explain to me what BSR and WSR stand for?
>
>	Any help would be very appreciated.
>

i think it's about time to set up an FAQ now in this group.
any comments?







-- 

--Shawkang Wu
From: mlab3@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Utility convert BIG-5 and GB
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:41:39 CDT
Organization: who cares

-- 

       ''',         +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
    o_)O \)____)"   | mlab3@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu   |      /   /     |
     \_        )    | qhu@tesla.ece.ukans.edu    |     /---/ /  / |
woof!  '',,,,,,     | mlab3@ukanvm               |    /   / /__/  |
         ||  ||     +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
        "--'"--'
From: thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Can we not all get along?
Date: 15 Aug 92 01:18:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <77727@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>
>There is an inherent parochialism in the concept of Taiwan
>Nationalism.
>
There is an inherent parochialism in the concept of Chinese Nationalism
or even Humanism.

>If you seek to break down the barriers of parochialism between
>different groups inside of Taiwan because of common experience, then
>the question arises why should similar barriers with groups outside of
>Taiwan remain?  
>
Barriers within Taiwan and surrounding Taiwan are not similar to begin
with.  The question does not exist at all.

>If the answer is that they shouldn't remain, then you've stepped
>outside of the boundaries of creating a cohesive society known as
>Taiwan into the realm of creating a cohesive society known as China.
>
From Taiwan's cosmopolitan (and hense fragmented) background, the next
step is to interact with the whole world.  I hope for a cohesive world
and my idea about how to get there might be different from yours.

>If the answer is that they should remain, then how is it possible to
>include people like, Mr. Tang, who after all lives in the United
>States?

I really don't know this Mr. Tang, sorry.

I know you will have more questions, see you next week.

TY Huang
From: tylee@austin.ibm.com (Ter-Yuan Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Telecommunication in Taiwan
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:54:15 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin Advanced Workstation Division
Originator: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com


In article <Bsy32p.n47@acsu.buffalo.edu>, stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shuoh-Ren Tsai) writes:
> 
>  
> I just read a piece of news. Many of AT&T researchers come back to Taiwan....
>  
> And I have an idea:
>  
> In Taiwan Telcommunication is not a private business.  In US there are several
> Telecommunication Companies.  Because of competition, we have good price and
> service.  As we know, the price of Telephone calls is pretty high in Taiwan.
> But the business is very good because the popularity of Telephone in Taiwan,
> right? Well, maybe not.
>  

The price for making a phone call through a pay phone in Taipei is NT$1.00.
That is about US$0.04. I think it is cheaper than US in this respect.

> But think about the cost( in term of space ) and the profit.  Within the same
> space of area, in Taiwan there are more Telephones than US.
>  
> If we have more than one Telecommunication  company in Taiwan ...
>

As soon as the scale of the phone business reaches that of USA, then it is
time ROC had more than one phone companies. Yes, competition is good for
economy and the customer would be profited from this competition.

Similar situations can be found on Hong Kong which has only one phone company.

  
> 
> ---   Shuoh-Ren Tsai                        stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu   
>       Dept. of Electrical & Computer Eng.   State Univ. of N.Y. at Buffalo
-- 
/* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *\
 * The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
 * Ter-Yuan Lee                                                              *
From: thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: An old joke about Taiwan and China
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:33:58 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley


I just heard that Earth is a part of Jupiter.  Is that just a rumor?
From: philliao@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Hsin-Chao Phil Liao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: UCB Batzang
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:20:08 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

Hello,

I am new to Berkeley.  Could any of the Batzang people please
contact me.  I am philliao@cory.berkeley.edu

Thanks

Hsin-Chao Liao    (aka Phil)
From: dickhoff@NERO.WUSTL.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Answer to Mr. Lambert's Question
Date: 15 Aug 92 23:41:00 GMT



In article <7062@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> blamb@rodan.hri.com (Bill Lambert) writes:
>In view of the "Open Letter to the Japanese Emperor" and
>some of the discussion related to that topic, I'd like to
>ask Chinese or Korean readers just exactly would be acceptable
>as an apology from the Japanese government or Emperor, and
>what constitutes "accepting responsibility".
[deleted for briefty]
>I guess this is important, because so many people expect something,
>but I'm not sure that they even know what they expect, and have
>those with expectations set a goal that will satisfy them?
>
>Please remember, the Emperor as a symbol without power, can only
>use his words. What are the good words he should say?
>
>Please be frank.

Mr. Lambert, your belwilderment is excusable, because you are not
Chinese.  Here I am completely frank with you in answering your 
question.

We Chinese have no expectation on whatever Japanese Emperor is going
to say.  He should say anything at his own free will.  We just want
to ask him a simple question:
 How does he think about Japanese army's deeds in China in WWII. 

  If he thinks it was glorious, then that is fine. 
  If he wants to be silent on this question, then that is fine too.
  If he thinks it was really shameful, then we expect he would 
     behaves in a way as an ordinary human being when he feels 
     guilty and shameful.

Any more question?

-----------------

T.T.Wu
From: An-Ly Yao <anlyyao@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Date: 15 Aug 92 06:20 PDT
Subject: Re: Many ugly Yankees!!
Nf-ID: #R:cyen.713874972@ponder:1843998687:cdp:1474900009:000:1214
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!anlyyao    Aug 15 06:20:00 1992



Uh! There someone really got rid of lots of steam!

To experience safe traffic, I probably would not visit Taipei. But to meet
friendly people, Taiwan is a nice place to go.

It isn't too helpfull to portray others (i.e. Americans) as "ugly" in order
to get a better selfconfidence for the own people.

There is a better approach by Bo Yang (you probably heard about him): to lead
Chinese out of what he considered to be their misery, he shocked his own people
with his "The ugly Chinamen". They of course aren't that ugly (as I know from
my wife, a "Chinawoman". But his book was a big success.

Recently, in Taiwan more then elswhere, you can see a lot of selfcritizism.
Look at the good side:
   strength is: to be able to look at one's own weakpoints.

So in this sense Taiwan is getting pretty strong. Imagine a book like "TAIWAN
2000" (Academia Scinica, Taipei 1989). In the PRC, in Korea, the ASEAN coun-
tries you won't find such a down-to-facts study on environmental problems.

To understand yourself, you should take a look in the mirror and not at ameri-
cans, wether "ugly" or not. Also looking at others (Germans like me) won't
help.

take it easy
Goetz

anlyyao@igc.apc.org
Seoul 1992/08/15, Korea

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: U38250@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: BANANAS (was Re: Thanks, buddy!)
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:48:02 GMT
 <1992Aug13.211227.8515@cbfsb.cb.att.com> <92226.212345U38250@uicvm.uic.edu>
 <1992Aug14.141408.675@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <1992Aug14.141408.675@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
(yung-kao.hsu) says:
>
>        4-letter words does not violate the law, but you may get kicked out
>        of the net for using it here.
>

Sorry, this time you are wrong. If you use 4-letter words to somebody in
public, he/she can bring a lawsuit against you, and you will definitly be
convicted on condition of enough evidence.

By the way, there are many cases when a speech is against the law.
Harrassment is one of them. Threatening is another.

>        Not signing your name or email address does not seem to be taken
>        responsibility of what you say to me. Many newspapers require
>

You can always find one's E-mail address on top of every article. You can
always send messages to that address by simply using "REPLY" (PF5).

Thank you.
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: No Taiwanese?!
Date: 17 Aug 92 08:48:06 -0600
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <17AUG92.09051113@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw>, u322543@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw writes:
>    In Aug.11, KMT female Legislator, Chow1-Chuan2, said,
>    "Those KMTs who speak Taiwanese are bastard. (Bai4-Lei4)"
>    Oh, I feel so sorry for the hundred thousands of KMTs, who
>    speak Taiwanese as their mother language.
> 

	** What did she really trying to say? 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan