HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ulick@chopin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Chicago Brewing Co. Tour
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:13:43 GMT

On Saturday a German friend, who was very impressed with Heartland Weiss
and I went on a tour of the Chicago Brewing Co.  They have tours every 
Saturday at 2pm, according to their 6-packs, but seeing as we were driving
in from South Bend we made sure in advance.  It was alittle hectic with
a street festival going on in the alley, Besley Court, on which the 
brewery, Illinois' largest, is located.

The brewery consists of a 50 bbl brewhouse, made of copper, that was 
obtained from a small Germand brewery that closed.  The rest of the brewery,
which consisted of hot liquor store, a whirlpool, 12 fermentation vessels-
lagering vessels and 4 storage tanks, all of 100 bbl capacity, were 
purchased from a New York micro that closed (used to preduce New Amsterdam,
or something like that).  The tour was interesting, but some of the 
processing interested me.  They rough filtered their beer, i.e. no sterile
filtering and then stored the beer in the tanks.  For draught they just 
connected kegs to these tanks, but for bottleing their beer was flash
pasteurized.  They said that only 2 other breweries in the US, Anchor and
one other used this technique.  They cap their bottles with Smartcaps, which
gives thier beers and extra 2 months of shelf life.  

They use 100% US ingredients.  Briess malts, Chinook hops for bittering, Mt.
Hood for finishing.  Steve Dyneheart, who gave the tour, was very pleased
with their showing in the GABF, winning best European Pilsener for their
Legacy Lager, a nice dark pilsener.  They also won the bronze for their
Heartland Weiss behind a draught beer and a dunkel weizen. He seemed to 
imply that the Pilsener beat out Pittsburgh's finest (now sueing brew pubs
for use of the city name in which they like to imply that they brew their
beers), however a review of the GABF results had no mention of this beer.
Naturally, we got to sample some of their beers.  They brew Lagacy Red Ale
in addition to the 2 beers mentioned above, and we had samples straight 
from the storage tanks.

Their beers were good.  We walked around to Goose Island afterwards and their
beer didn't seem that good (was GI on the southside last time I visited, or
am I getting disoriented?).  I had a Baderbrau, brewed by a micro somewhere
in the suburbs, in a restaurant later, and while drinkable, I thought it was
not quite a pilsener.  All in all, an interesting day.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ :'( crying   :-& tongue tied   ;-) flirt  + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+ :-D laughing   B-| cool      5:-) Elvis   + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ 3:-) cow      :=8) baboon   +-(:-) pope   + Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+ =|:-)= Uncle Sam    ':-) shaved eyebrow   +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: ulick@mozart.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: ENGLISH BREW PUBS
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:30:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct14.203044.20554
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame

In article <11113@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes:
>In London, there is a chain of brew pubs called the Firkin pubs.  Their 
>names all end in Firkin.  I went to the Frog & Firkin, and it was pretty 
>nice, although the beer was brewed off premises.

I have had beers at the Greyhound in Norbury (I think).  That was a few years
ago and I can't really remember how their beer was.  It was probably better
than random English ale, but inferior to Fuller's ESB.  But that was a few
years ago.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: ibiggs@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Ian Biggs)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Coffee Brews ???
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:16:32 GMT
Organization: Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency (ACOA)


    I've been thinking seriously about adding a 1/2 pound of fresh crushed 
coffee beans to my stout that I plan to make in the near future.  I was 
thinking about putting in the wort during the last 5-10 minutes of steeping 
before I sparge to the primary.

Has anyone tried this before.  Do you suggest or regret it?	Any help 
would be appreciated.

Kevin Crawfrod
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Boston Stock Altbier?/Seabr
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 23:43:04 GMT

homebrew@lupulus.ssc.gov writes:

> Boston Stock Altbier?/Seabright Brewery
>Hidy ho neighbors,

>I was on vaction last week (honeymoon actually) so its taken me a while to
>catch up on my digest reading, and consequently I am a little late catching on
>to the Altbier thread.

>When I returned, I found the results of the '92 GABF in my mailbox and saw that
>Samuel Adams Boston Stock Ale had won a gold in the Dusseldorf Altbier
>catagory. No silver or bronze was awarded.

>Now my question is:  Is Boston Stock Ale really representitive of the
>Dusseldorf Alt style?  Or did the The Boston Beer Company enter it in a
>catagory with no other entries so that they could win the gold medal necessary
>for their tried and true marketing campaign?  "Samuel Adams has won a gold
>medal at the Great American Brew Festival N years in a row."

Boston Stock Ale is as representative of Dusseldorf Alt as zucchini is
of the Lepidoptera.  Well, maybe that's a little harsh...  I happen to
like BSA but it's no Jack Kennedy.  Er...

I would say that your instant analysis up there was accurate.  Jim Koch
is no slouch at manipulating the GABF and using the results for
advertising purposes.  It's what he does best.

Jeff Frane

-- 
gummitch@techbook.COM  Public Access UNIX at (503) 220-0636 (1200/2400)
From: edbu@pogo.wv.tek.com (Ed Burress)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: O2 tanks for CO2 dispensing
Summary: Woa, hold on there a minute......
Date: 14 Oct 92 00:29:21 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1437.2ad97027@atlas.nafb.trw.com>, bhadley@atlas.nafb.trw.com writes:

(text deleted)

>Will a supply company fill a O2 tank with CO2? Any comments on this would 
>be appreciated. Brian.

Several years ago, a supply company in Salem, Oregon supplied an O2 bottle 
full of CO2 to the local Hospital in Dallas, Ore.  The hospital used this 
bottle during surgery.  The anestesiologist (sp) noticed that the patient 
was not getting enough O2, and turned up the flow.  After a few more minutes 
of this, the patient died.  An investigation turned up that someone had to 
make a special fitting at the supplier since the two bottles and their 
associated regulators are different (one uses left hand threads, and one 
uses right hand) If I remember all of the details correctly, this was done 
as a "joke" (not too funny) and resulted in a lawsuit, and criminal charges
for most of the people involved.

My guess is that you won't find anyone who will fill the tank for you.
I found however, that the local Pepsi distributor will sell me a tank
full of CO2 for $21. I get to keep the tank as long as I like, exchange it 
for a new one whenever it's empty, and never have to worry about the
hydrotesting stamps.  You might be able to find the same deal near you.
Actually, you might be able to sell the 02 tank to one of the local gas 
distributors for a profit. Hope this helps....

--------------------------------------------------------------
U.S. Mail:				edbu@pogo
Ed Burress 63-356			Phone (503)-685-3200
Tektronix, Inc.
PO box 1000 Wilsonville, Oregon,
			97070-1000
--------------------------------------------------------------
"A wise monkey never monkeys with another monkey's monkey."
--------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: rstern@col.hp.com (Richard Stern)
Subject: Re: Repost: GABF results
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:27:27 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane) writes:
> 
> their beer's merits.  As I recall from a conversation with Fred
> Eckhardt, who has served on the judging panels over several years, they
> are *required* to hand out a full array of awards, even if they don't
> feel the beers are really worthy of recognition.  If there are only Gold
> & Silver medals in a category, it's because only 2 beers were entered!

I would really like to find out if this is true.  I certainly don't
believe it.  When announcing the awards, they say "the judges decided to
only give out 1 (or 2) award(s) this year".  Note the word "decided".

Also, look at last years winners of Classic Pale Ale (3 medals - none of
them for SNPA).  This year the only medal was a gold for SNPA.  Are we
supposed to believe that the winners from last year didn't even enter
this year??  Are we to believe that only 1 beer was entered in the Classic
Pale Ale catagory, which has to be one of the most popular and common
styles at the GABF?  On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that
last years 3 medal winners weren't even good enough for the judges to
give them any medal. 

Something fishy is going on (as usual).

Richard Stern
rstern@col.hp.com
From: newkirki@hotcity.COM (Joel Newkirk)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Belgian Strong Ale 
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:16:51 PST
Organization: BBS

I'm entering this recipe to the net for a friend.  We brewed it a few weeks
ago,aiming for a Belgian Trippel, but the resulting brew was a lovely golden
ale color.  At about 9 1/2 percent alcohol it seemed innapropriate to call it a
double.  After four days in the bottle, tasted room temperature, it was
fantastic.  No bananas yet, but we're of course expecting them.
 
Belgian Strong Ale
 
Brought to boil with 2 gallons water:
3/4 cup Belgian Special Roast Malt
3/4 cup English Crystal Malt (80L)
 
Grains removed at boil
 
Boiled 1 hour:
10 lb NorthWestern Gold Extract
1/4 lb Light Brown Sugar
1/4 tsp Cinnamon
1 tsp Irish Moss
 
Boiling Hops, 1 hour:
1 oz Fuggle pellet
3/4 oz Cascade pellet
 
1/2 hour:
3/4 oz Saaz whole hops
3/4 Styrian Golding pellet
 
15 minute:
2 oz Fresh Whole Cascade (Homegrown)
 
5 minutes:
1/4 Saaz whole
1/2 oz Olympic pellet
1/2 oz Cascade pellet
 
Brought to 3.5 gallons total
 
Pitched Wyeast 1214 Belgian Liquid Yeast
 
Original Gravity: 1.083 (Monday)
Secondary: 1.018 (Thursday)
Dry hopped 1/4 oz Norther Brewer leaf hops
Final Gravity: 1.009 (3rd Thursday)
 
Final Yield: 40 7 oz bottles & 2 750 ml
 
This seemed like overhopping ad nauseum, but it came out wonderfully balanced. 
The cinnamon, of course, is a drop in the ocean of flavor.
    _______
   |XXXXXXX|_
   |XXXXXXX| \       Joel NewKirk   (NewKirki@HotCity.com)
   | .   . |\ \
   |o   O  | > >     "My views are my own, therefore they
   |  .   '|/ /        DO reflect those of my employer"
   | o   o | /            "It's good to be the king"
   |_______|/
 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: chrisbro@ssd.intel.com (Chris Browne)
Subject: Re: Coffee Brews ???
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Divison, Intel Corp.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:33:33 GMT

Coffee in beer is great! I used a dark malt extract + 12 oz of Kona Coffee + 12
oz of french roast for my first batch. It might have been too much coffee.
The second batch I used dark malt extract (7 lbs) and 1 lb of Kona Coffee. Great!
People that like dark beer and also like coffee will love this. (1.25 oz chinock
hops for boiling and 1.25 oz cascade for aroma) I added the fresh ground coffee
right after the boil and strained out most of the grounds with the hops. I then
put it in a carboy for a few weeks to settle out the coffee some more and put
it in a 5 gal keg.

	I tried a pound of coaco instead of coffee in the same mix of malt and
hops but was not as impressed. 


				Good Luck
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: rjhoffma@iastate.edu (Richard J. Hoffmann)
Subject: Re: Weeping Radish [Stoudt's]
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:19:30 GMT

In article <01050166.fv8k6f@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us> joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us writes:
>
>In article <527@ssdc.UUCP> (rec.crafts.brewing), jbasara@ssdc.UUCP (Jim Basara) writes:

>) Likewise, when I purchased bottles from the Weeping Radish in Manteo N.C.,
>                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Well, the Weeping Radish does sell beer in those really cool monster
>swingtop bottles.  But I recently had a sweet stout a friend brought
>up from there that was 1) not all that flavorful, 2) unpleasantly
>sweet, and 3) a bit sulfury.  Supposedly they pride themselves on
>their authentic "German brewmaster."  I guess this is where the
>brewmasters who get C's in brewing class go ... (we used to say that
>the civil engineers who had 2.0 GPAs all went to work designing Raleigh's
>roads).

At the risk of asking for it, I had the opportunity to sample the Black
Radish beer this place makes this past summer.  I'm no expert, and just
a beginning brewer, but I thought it was very good.  From what I've
read, I expect that this is an example of a schwartzbier.  I'd recommend
giving them a try.




-- 
Richard J. Hoffmann              Internet: rjhoffma@iastate.edu
Department of Zoology & Genetics   Bitnet: rjhoffma%iastate.edu@isumvs
Iowa State University               Voice: (515) 294-8075
Ames, Iowa 50011
From: atl@kpc.com (Drew Lynch)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: On the use of hydrometers
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:27:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer

In article <1992Oct15.141904.12530@news.nd.edu>, ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct14.222721.2636@kpc.com> atl@kpc.com (Drew Lynch) writes:
|> >
|> >Screw the little plastic jar.  Sanitize the hygrometer and drop it in the beer.
|> 
|> The problems with this are that it can be tough to stop the hydrometer
|> riding on bubbles, can be tough to fish it back out of the carboy, impossible
|> to measure sg while spargeing, and one doesn't get a sample to sample to
|> see how the beer is.  (If your spelling above was not a typo please note
|> that hydrometer is quite different from hygrometer.  The latter measures
|> atmospheric humidity).

  I sit corrected.  I do use a two stage fermentation, extract only. I measure the SG just before pitching the yeast.  At this point the wort is in a 7 gallon plastic pail, so retrieving the hyDrometer is not a problem. The large pail makes it easy to avoid the bubble problem.  I can see how this would be more of a problem in a one stage, carboy only setup.  Secondary fermentation takes place in a 5 gallon glass carboy.  Just before bottling, I rack back into the plastic pail, and measure the SG again, and







 then mix in my bottling sugar.  Rather that using the hydrometer to identify racking and bottling times, I transfer from primary to secondary when the most active fermentation has ceased, and bottle when the beer is clear, but then I'm real good at "Don't worry, Have a homebrew." 

-- 
+-----------------------------+	    Andrew Lynch, atl@kpc.com
|    Vote or Shut Up!	      |	Kubota Pacific Computer Inc. Santa Clara, Ca.
|                             |	          (408)748-6345
+-----------------------------+	  Disclaimer: This is me, not them.
From: john.fix%hardgood@philabs.philips.com (John Fix)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: PHIL FLEMMING'S XMAS BREW
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:13:00 GMT
Reply-To: john.fix%hardgood@philabs.philips.com (John Fix)
Organization: Hardgoods East BBS - Eastchester, NY (914) 961-8749

TO:  kmcintyr@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com



-> Luckily I always ferment in the bathtub in case of these little
-> accidents.

Do you shower in a carboy?

<chuckle>

-> attempting is the Phil Flemming Xmas brew that is in the

Let me know how it turns out.... I may attempt one of the specialty xmas
brews from Cats Meow once I'm back from Florida in two weeks.  Gotta
bottle an experimental lager I've got in the fridge first.

                                  -= John =-
From: gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: mailing beer and headaches
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:13:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: pslu1.1992Oct13.181325.28420
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin

In article <1992Oct13.171741.3312@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> gilpbf@cindas.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian F Gilp) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.193139.17201@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski) writes:
>>Question:  what kind of brewpot do you use?
>>(I'm fishing for something here....)
>>
>>--Tom G.
>
>For this batch it was a coated(enamled?) aluminum I think.  Anyways
>its fairly thin gauge at least compared to the pot that I am sure
>is uncoated aluminum.  I never worried if this pot is steel or
>aluminum because it is coated.  O.K. I really don't know what the
>hell it is but It boils my wort what else do I need to know?
>-Brian

Okay, that kills my first theory.  I remember my very first batch,
which I did in a cheap aluminum canning pot.  I used to get vicious
headaches off of that batch, so much so that I had to go out and
get an enamel-coated one like yours.  I don't know that it
was the aluminum, but the beer did have a harsh, metallic taste
to it, which was reason enough to switch, and I haven't had the
headache problem since.  

OK, time for the next theory...could it be...the dreaded FUSEL ALCOHOL
monster!?

Without going into an overlong discussion of fusel alcohol production
(Miller, Papazian, etc., discuss it in their books), I'll toss out
the following points for consideration:
  - do you have a lot of trub in the primary fermenter, or
  - ferment at temperatures which are on the high end of the
    range for the yeast you use?

Failing this, I wonder if this person isn't possibly having a
psychosomatic reaction to your beer....the fiend!  :-)

--Tom G.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: AHA Policy on Product Reviews
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:46:10 GMT

Faint as I am at the notion of agreeing with Msr Schmidling on anything,
I agree that the AHA/Zymurgy policy is misguided, and that the correct
way to handle reviews is to provide ordering information.  As has been
pointed out, this is pretty much standard policy in every periodical I'm
familiar with.

In this particular instance, I believe the policy stems from an enhanced
sensitivity to retailers based on past behavior.  A number of retailers
not only carry Zymurgy but advertise there, and they have strongly
objected in the past to competition from mail-order services -- to the
extent, if memory serves, of pulling their ads when they got disgusted
enough.  Most homebrew retailers are dinky outfits and are uptight about
losing their customers to mail-order houses that can offer better
prices.

This is not a particularly good excuse, mind you, but I believe it is an
explanation.

But, hey, write to the AHA and complain.  Or e-mail them at their
compuserve account: 70740.1107@CompuServe.com

But be polite, folks.

Jeff Frane


-- 
gummitch@techbook.COM  Public Access UNIX at (503) 220-0636 (1200/2400)
From: mracette@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Racette)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Grain Mill
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:01:08 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

I am interested in purchasing a grain mill, but the only ones I've seen
are kind of expensive, e.g. a Corona corn mill - $100.00, another hand crank  
mill for $96.00, and the least expensive one at $61.00. Is there a good 
alternative for good brewing-quality grain milling out there for a little
less money? Is it possible to use a meat grinder or something and if so
what kind of blades do you need?

Thanks
From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: O2 tanks for CO2 dispensing
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 21:49:23 EDT
Organization: 5 Sigma Software
Reply-To: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v5


In article <1437.2ad97027@atlas.nafb.trw.com> (rec.crafts.brewing), bhadley@atlas.nafb.trw.com writes:
) 
) I have a question about tanks and regulators for a CO2 system. I found a
) medical O2 tank with all the gages and regulators at a garage sale for
) next to nothing. I figured that perhaps the thing could be used as a CO2
) system for kegging. Will this work? Will there be any necessary and costly
) modifications? I have been told that O2 tanks withstand higher pressures
) than CO2 tanks so this should not be a problem. Will a supply company
) fill a O2 tank with CO2? Any comments on this would be appreciated. Brian.

I haven't bought a tank of O2 ... but CO2 tanks of the sort most brewers
use contain liquid CO2 and have a siphon inside.  I don't believe
O2 in cylinders is liquefied (!).  You could use it for nitrogen,
though, I would think.

uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
-----My employer isn't paying for this, and my opinions are my own-----
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: danp@sabre.bellcore.com
Subject: Re: First Mead
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 19:24:41 GMT

>	I pitched Vierka mead yeast into one gallon of must this 
>past Sunday afternoon.  As of Wednesday morning, there was still
>no action.  Can anyone tell me how long it _usually_ takes for
>mead yeasts to get going?  What can/should I do to get this mead
>going on its way?  Any sage advice would be welcome.


Vierka is notorious for starting slowly (3-4 days) and frequently
not starting, especially if you pitch it directly into the must.
I strongly recommend rehydrating this yeast before pitching.

On the other hand, I've never had a problem with pitching Red Star
Pasteur Champagne directly.  It is usually visibly active in about
24-36 hours.



Daniel Pomplun, Bellcore, danp@sabre.bellcore.com
Phone:  (908) 758-2740  Fax: (908) 758-4268
331 Newman Springs Rd, Red Bank, NJ 07701-7020,  MS: NVC-1E246
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Sake
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:49:44 GMT

homebrew@lupulus.ssc.gov writes:


>Howdy Brewers,

>	Although only vaguely homebrewish in nature, I thought this
>question was best asked of the HBD, as I consider us "experts" on the
>quality of alcoholic beverages.

>	Anyway, I am interested in trying some sake, I think.  I
>have heard both good and bad things about it, so figured I should
>get a brand name recommendation before buying any.  Any comments?

>I suppose since this really isn't homebrewing that personal
>email is the way to go.

>Thanks,

>Brian J Walter 

This is as good an intro as any to say that Fred Eckhardt's book, Sake
U.S.A. has just been published (by Fred). 
PO Box 546
Portland OR 97207

Contact Fred at the address above for details, or to express interest in
his quarterly (kind of) Sake Connection newsletter.  Both the book and
the newsletter offer information on commercial sake and on brewing sake.

I will say nothing more, since the observant will note that I'm listed
in the book as editor and designer.  So this is a Point of Information,
only.

Jeff Frane



-- 
gummitch@techbook.COM  Public Access UNIX at (503) 220-0636 (1200/2400) 


Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing