From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military..what nobody is talking about:
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Arizona USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:01:03 GMT

In article <daj20.724440585@junkers> daj20@amdahl.com (Daniel A Jatnieks) writes:
]>In article <1992Dec13.222013.25233@anasazi.com> john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore) writes:
]
]>>   Okay, I'll explain  it again (for about the 3rd time in this thread).
]>>   Hets need not fear sexual interest by the African American. They
]>>   do fear it from gays. I know that some people will say that gays
]>>   won't find hets sexually attractive, but that is utter crap, as indicated
]>>   by plenty of unfortunate incidents where gays made passes at hets
]>>   who responded violently. It DOES happened. It HAS happened. It will
]>>   happen again. It is frightening and anger provoking for many young men, and
]>>   that is dangerous to military units. 
]
]
]	We can assume then that it specifically frightens you?

I don't know why you can assume that, since I have repeatedly stated
that it doesn't. You seem to be making the typical mistake of today's
liberals (which you may or may not be) which is to assume that one's 
psychological pathologies are behind any illiberal or un-PC position. 
Unlike today's liberals, some of us believe that it is possible to
have a position based on logic rather than emotion.

I'll say it again: I have no personal fear of gays in the military. I
will never serve in the military again, due to age; even if I was, my
response to a gay pass would just be a "no thanks" - not a fist or
a knife that many in the military (and some on this net) would
respond with. From a personal stand point, it isn't an issue.

]	I agree with Peter Young that this is an irrational fear.  And
]	the fact I think it is an irrational fear has nothing to do with
]	the fact that gays will make passes at het's and even sometimes
]	rape them.
So is the fear of death. Are you going to legislate it away also?
]
]	I wonder if this gives those that are frightened by this a greater
]	appreciation for how women feel when confronted with unwanted 
]	passes at them or the fear of being raped?  And yet there are
]	many women in the military who do want to be there ... hmmm, 
]	I guess they have been able to deal with their fears of unwanted
]	passes and rape well enough.  I guess men just can't be expected
]	to have to be that mature is that it?
You may not realize this, but in the military women are SEGREGATED from
men in their sleeping and showering and pooping quarters. As I have said
before, that would be one solution to the gays-in-the-military issue.

]
]	I think you have brought out the most basic reason that 
]	motivates many who are against gays in the military, and that
]	is simply fear.  As you put it: fear of sexual interest from
]	gays, fear of unwanted passes, even fear of rape.  All I can
]	say is that the proper way to deal with fear IS NOT to try
]	to make it go away; it doesn't work that way.
THat's nice. Now why don't you go down to San Diego and tell that to
the tough dudes in Seal Team One. Good luck! Then go to the Recruit Training
Depot and explain it to the street toughs who are being processed into
the military.

If all the touchie-feelie social engineering stuff worked, we would have
a lot fewer social problems. In fact, it ain't that simple. Modification
of behavior is difficult even in people who want to modify their
behavior.  Schools are finding that the huge amount of PC instruction
that now passes for education at some institutions is resulting in
anti-PC students. Funny, but people are just not clay that you can
mold to your idealistic model.

]>I see no difference between an irrational fear of skin color and
]>irrational fear of getting fucked in the ass.

Obviously. However, these days of AIDS an undesired ass-fucking is something
that is fearful indeed. However, realistically, as far as I can tell
homophobia (used in a more correct sense - FEAR of homosexuals or
homosexual activities) seems to be based on an insecurity about
one's masculinity - not uncommon among adolescents (such as the
folks joining the military) - and apparently especially common among
the more "macho" folks (such as those who want to join the combat arms).

Now, you can spend all day arguing about how irrational that fear is.
I don't deny it's irrationality, and, in spite of the assertions of the
homophiles on the net,  I don't share that fear - at 44 years of
age I know who I am - even if you folks don't. 

However, the moment you take the leap of logic from "the fear is irrational" 
to "therefore we should bring gays into the military" - we part company
in our views. You leap from what is to what you wish should be, assuming
that what you wish should be is something that can simply be created.
That is typical logic of the social engineer, and the failures of the
resulting policies are legion.
-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
 - - Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! - -
 - - It is not enough to be right. One must also be effective! - -
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush