HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Alex Lopez-Ortiz <alopez-o@MAYTAG.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Sobre la cita de Feynman
Reply-To: Multiple recipients of list MEXICO-L <MEXICO-L@TECMTYVM.BITNET>
Organization: University of Waterloo Canada
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:36:05 GMT

>
><<<Richard Feynman (premio nobel de fisica) dice:
>
>Athens is a sprawling, ugly, noisy, exhaust-filled mess of streets filled
>with nrevous traffic jumping like rabbits when the lights go green and
>stopping with squealing brakes when they go red -and blowing horns when
>they go yellow. Very similar to Mexico City, except the people don't look
>as poor.
>--
>Alex Lopez-Ortiz  >>>
>
>
>        Pues Feyman podra ser un premio Nobel, pero este tipo de frases no
>muestran mas que una limitada apertura mental, una pobreza cultural mayor
>a la que critica ("la paja en el ojo ajeno") y, finalmente, una estupidez
>inaceptable para una celebridad. Hay veces que es mejor no decir ciertas cosas
>o, mejor  buscar la mejor forma de decirlas.

Feynman fue a la ciudad de Mexico, y a diferencia de muchos turistas, el si
recorrio las zonas populares. El dijo lo que vio y lo dijo con franqueza.

Si la verdad nos duele es culpa nuestra y no de Feynman. (A mi tambien me
da pena que alguien pueda comparar la C. de Mexico con Atenas, porque la
verdad es que Atenas es horrible).

>        Y otra vez lo de la pobreza asociada a Mexico. Talvez no hay nada mas
>que irrite a algunos extranjeros, en especial a los americanos, el ver que un
>pais mundialmente presentado como "la tierra de los nopales y los sombreros",
>tiene una riqueza cultural e historica que no hace mas que despertar envidias,
>reconociendo lo plastico y supercial de sus ambientenes de origen.

A Feynamn no le irrita que la gente sea pobre, le indigna ver el sufrimiento
de la gente pobre. Como debiera indignarnos a todos.

Notese que Feynman evita hacer criticas, su parrafo es mas bien descriptivo.

>
>                Saludos y que viva Atenas tambien, que debe de ser linda!

Si, ese ya me lo se: "Como Mexico no hay dos!"


Basta de patrioterismo! Si el pais  tiene problemas, es en la medida que los
reconozcamos que los vamos a solucionar. No resolvemos nada intentando
tapar el sol con un dedo.

Alex


--
Alex Lopez-Ortiz                              alopez-o@maytag.UWaterloo.ca
Department of Computer Science                      University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario                                                   Canada
From: IQAN0@EBCCUAB1.BITNET
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
Subject: Premio Nobel
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:15:29 GMT
Reply-To: Multiple recipients of list MEXICO-L <MEXICO-L@TECMTYVM.BITNET>
Organization: Universidad Autonoma de Barcelona

Raza,
        Acabo de oir en las noticias que el premio Nobel de la Paz
le ha sido otorgado a Rigoberta Menchu, mujer guatemalteca defensora
de los derechos humanos.
        Ojala y esto tenga una repercusion directa en la tragica
situacion de los derechos humanos en el pais hermano (y por que no,
en el nuestro).
        Regocijaos,

        Francisco Valdes
        iqan0@cc.uab.es
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
From: rjsalvad@iastate.edu (Ricardo J Salvador)
Subject: Re: Mejico??
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:52:13 GMT

In article <EeopCVW00Xci0CdIk5@andrew.cmu.edu> hs1c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Hector Salgado-Galicia) writes:

>A proposito, podria alguien elaborar sobre cual es el origen de esta
>palabra "gachupin"?

La palabra aparece por primera vez en textos mexicanos escritos en
nahuatl en los 1700.  Se cree derivada de CACTLI y de CHOPINIA o
TZOPINIA (o sea CACHOPIN o CACHOPINTIN en plural--en nahuatl no
existe la "g"), y significari'a algo asi' como "el que se picotea
los zapatos."   Sin duda es te'rmino despectivo.

Hasta moztla,
Ricardo
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
From: rene@rice.edu (Rene G. Rodriguez)
Subject: Re: Fwd: 12 de octubre !
Originator: rene@athene.cs.rice.edu
Reply-To: rene@rice.edu (Rene G. Rodriguez)
Organization: Rice University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:43:33 GMT


Hace un par de dias salio esta

|> INVITATION A TODOS LOS LATINOAMERICANOS.
|> 
|>                  NADA QUE CELEBRAR !!!
|> 
...
|> 	Pensamos firmemente que no se trata de procla-
|> mar una confrontacion, ni de alimentar rar rencores o vi-
|> liosos sentimientos, sino de no caer en el juego 
|> de un festejo, que no sentimos nuestro.

Pues yo festejo el nacimiento de la cochinita pibil y la
tortilla de patatas, de las carnitas y el gazpacho. Al final
de cuentas es el cumplea~os de la raza. Hay quien en su 
cumplea~os se va de fiesta y se pone borrachito, hay quien
se sienta unos momentos a hacer un balance de su vida. Hay
quienes no hacen ni lo uno ni lo otro, sino todo lo contrario.

|> la vigilancia de la dignidad y bienestar de los
|> pueblos indigenas de nuestros paises, es responsabi-
|> lidad, que como latinoamericanos nos compete. De al-
|> guna forma queremos hacer evidente nuestro rechazo a 
|> una celebracion, y patente un compromiso moral con 
|> nuesta gente. Para esto,
|> [...]		   realizaremos un planton el lunes 12
|> de octubre de 12 a 14 horas, frente al Sheldonian
|> Theatre de Oxford.

No les parece unicamente una forma de lavarse la conciencia?
Quizas los indigenas de nuestros paises logren con esto un
beneficio que no alcanzo a vislumbrar?

La madre Teresa de Calcuta dijo alguna vez "we can do no great
things; only small things with great love." Si en verdad
quieren hacer algo por la dignidad y bienestar (TM) de los
pueblos indigenas, en mi opinion estan empezando al reves.
Menos palabras y mas obras, no?

|>                                   Grupo Tierra Firme

Aunque lo que he escrito suena a critica, y no estoy de
acuerdo con lo que hacen, les deseo suerte.

--rene
From: hs1c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Hector Salgado-Galicia)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
Subject: Re: Mejico??
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:08:02 GMT
	<HWR712F@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de>
Organization: Doctoral student, Engineering and Public Policy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Ricardo J Salvador y Paco Morales escriben:


>>La palabra aparece por primera vez en textos mexicanos escritos en
>>nahuatl en los 1700.  Se cree derivada de CACTLI y de CHOPINIA o
>>TZOPINIA (o sea CACHOPIN o CACHOPINTIN en plural--en nahuatl no
>>existe la "g"), y significari'a algo asi' como "el que se picotea
>>los zapatos."   Sin duda es te'rmino despectivo.
>>Ricardo
> 
>! Carambas !, en la primaria me ensen~aron que la palabra "gachupi'n"
>significaba "hombre a caballo", o algo similar. 
>! Chin !, le voy a tener que ir a reclamar a la SEP por contratar
>maestras tan "valines". 
>Ni modo que me vaya a quejar, la primaria donde estuve ya la cerraron.
> 
> 
>Saludos
 
>Paco

Interesante el comentario de Ricardo. Podrias elaborar un poco mas sobre
que es lo que se entiende por "picotearse los zapatos"?

Y comparto el asombro de Paco porque a mi lo unico que me ensen~aron al
respecto en la primaria fue que en Dolores un cura de apellido Hidalgo
alla por 1810 se puso a agitar al popolos con arengas de "vamos a matar
gachupines". Algo habran hecho que les agarro tanta tirria... mira que
si hubiese sabido lo que vendrian a hacer despues Echeverrias y Lopez
Portillos capaz que se desgan~ita. Tendra  que ver algo de esto con la
SEP?


Saludos

--Hector
From: REGHC@CUNYVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Visting africa
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:53:12 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

I plan on visiting Africasoon.  Any ideas of the places where I should go to?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius)
Subject: Angola update
Summary: MPLA agrees to postpone announcement of election result
Organization: Department of Mathematics
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:05:43 GMT

The MPLA government in Angola has agreed to postpone the announcement
of the results of the elections until UNITA's claims that there was
vote rigging are investigated.

Meanwhile, "Pik" Botha says he will remain in Angola for the time being
(whatever he means by that) and he also says his discussions with Savimbi
were reasonably positive and that the chances of a civil war have been
diminished.

er, MC, what do your AP guys say? :-)

--
lk(with the man in the yellow hat)
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Illegitimate government in South Africa
Date: 15 Oct 92 09:52:25 GMT
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

cscoging@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Chris Scogings) writes:

>I am interested in several terms used in some of the articles posted here.
 ...
>Another interesting term is "regim".  (Is there a spelling variation?)
 ...
>Perhaps it means oppressive government?

Well, not according to my trusted Chambers 20th Century dictionary.  Under
'regime' (there is no regim) it simply says "regimen: administration", and 
under 'regimen' it says: "government: system of government: course of 
treatment, as diet(med.): grammatical government: prevailing system or set 
of conditions."

But yes, it somehow always seems to be used with a negative conotation.
Maybe the people using it that way just don't know any better.

[puts on asbestos suit, ducks behind tons of smileys]
...and that surprises me, because it seems to be mostly African politicians
using it that way (and not just with respect to South Africa) and they 
always know better. :-)
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: SAIRR Leadership Wanes
Date: 12 Oct 1992 21:50:32 -0700
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: pacific.cs.ubc.ca


gram@aim1.aztec.co.za (Graham Wheeler) writes:
>I note with interest that some SAIRR researchers have resigned, allegedly due
>to their belief that JKB is waging a disinformation campaign against the
>ANC.

Are there any details on this.

This is a pity since the SAIRR is a useful organisation. Besides
projects like their bursary scheme they do produce useful research.
I think there is a place for a research organisation which produces
research from a variety of different perspectives. Unfortunately
Kane-Berman has become a poltical activist (nothing wrong with that
it just undermines the credibility of what the research organisation
does).

Question to Gavan. I wasn't satisified with your answer. Pointing
to the Survey and saying there's balance is not good enough. The
Survey is a reference work. What I think would be fairer is to
compare to stuff like Jeffery's earlier report on the effect of
mass action. Where is the equivalent analysis of Inkatha, or
KwaZulu (and there's lots of material there)? And what is important
is not just what gets published but the way it gets published. Does
JKB get up in front of the cameras and really push it. I'm not
saying there isn't an equivalent, just that the survey is not 
the equivalent.


Larry Kolodney writes:
>For all its window-dressing, the simple fact is that Inkatha remains a
>fundamentally undemocratic monarchist party,

I don't think it is really a monarchist party. It uses the monarchy
is more correct. I find it quite amusing Buthelezi making a big fuss
about the king not being at Codesa. Does anyone remember the incident 
a number of years when Buthelezi started attacking the king (verbally
I might add) during a session of the kwaZulu Legislative Assembly
and the king jumped up and ran out (not that I blame him). There's
no love lost between the two.

Scott



Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:5278 sanet.talk.politics:83
From: nicolson@odie.ee.wits.ac.za (James Nicolson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
Subject: Ungovernability (was Re: Dissatisfaction within the SAIRR)
Date: 14 Oct 92 14:52:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: odie.nicolson.50
Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Novell Users).

In article <1992Oct14.084408.203102@uctvax.uct.ac.za> mark@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:

>[from New Nation, 9 October 1992]
>RACE RELATIONS STAFF PROTEST

[... most of the article deleted]

>They pointed out that to shore up her conclusions that the
>ANC policy of "ungovernability" was responsible for the
>violence, she decontextualised the ANC policy of
>"ungovernability" to explain current violence which was
>taking place under different circumstances.

>She does not bother to note that the policy of
>ungovernability coincided with intense repression during
>which over 35000 persons were detained.

The claims that the ANC policy of "ungovernability" is responsible for the 
present violence is particularly surprising coming from the SAIRR. It can 
only strengthen suspicion that they are bolstering the position of the IFP, 
since Buthelezi never tires of raising the "ungovernability" line.

It is always difficult to be objective about recent history, but to say that 
the ANC's call to render the townships ungovernable is responsible for the 
violence (even the violence of the '80's) is a bit naive. Not even the ANC 
expected the kind of response that the call received from township 
residents. The township uprisings were a direct result of the introduction 
of BLA's, fuelled by years of harsh repression -- they were largely 
spontaneous. The idea that the ANC's call was the cause of the uprising is 
the same as the old accusation that black resistance to apartheid is 
caused by _instigators_ -- it is a fundamentally racist idea.

No-one can argue that the breakdown of the rule of law in the townships
is not a factor in the violence, but to blame this on the ANC totally misses 
the real causes: 

illegitimate government, 
repression, 
a police force engaged in political repression rather than preventing crime,
institutionalised poverty.

These all exist in kwaZulu, so Buthelezi would do well to look at the real 
social roots of the violence rather than make childish accusations about the 
ANC.

No doubt it can be argued (as Anthea Jeffery's does) that the ANC's policy 
of "ungovernability" fuelled the conflict. This is unhelpful because it 
ignores the real root causes and the context (as noted in the SAIRR internal 
report on Jeffery's research), but it also distorts the role played by 
democratic organisations during the township uprisings. This role was 
largely one of trying to replace the collapsed township structures with 
alternative structures (for garbage collection, crime prevention etc.).
These organisations promoted a certain level of discipline in a situation 
that could have led to much more senseless bloodshed than we are seeing 
today.

------------
James Nicolson, Department of Electrical Engineering
University of the Witwatersrand, South Africa
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: IPS: MOZANBIQUE: UNITED NATIONS BEGINS EMERGENCY OPERATIONS
Originator: barnhart@gagme
Organization: Evanston, Illinois
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:04:08 GMT

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Reference: United Nations; Agriculture
Title: MOZANBIQUE: UNITED NATIONS BEGINS EMERGENCY OPERATIONS


maputo, oct 2 (ips) -- the united nations has begun its long-
awaited operations in mozambique to help thousands of drought
and war victims with emergency food aid.

road convoys and airlifts have already begun to carry
foodstuffs to people in both government-controlled areas
and areas held by the mozambique national resistance
(renamo).

this is the first time in the history of mozambique's armed
conflict that the united nations will have carried humanitarian
aid to areas controled by renamo.

the beginning of the operations thursday ended the impasses
created by renamo's refusal to accept an operations plan
presented by the united nations last week.

the united nations sep. 11 presented to the government and
renamo a unified plan of action, proposing air and land routes
to be used both by the united nations and the international
committee of the red cross (icrc).

estimates suggest at least 17,000 people live in areas
controlled by renamo, which has been waging a war against the
mozambique government since the country's independence from
portugal jun. 25, 1975.

about six million of mozambique's 15.6 million depend on
foreign donations, according to government figures.

further airlift and road operation began sep. 25, covering
the ''worst affected and most isolated areas'' in gaza, manica
and sofala provinces in central and southern mozambique.

the icrc began supply operations by air to canxixe, a renamo-
controlled area in sofala province, while the united nations
still hopes to start air suply to inhaminga district of sofala,
from oct. 6.

from oct. 7 joint u.n.-icrc operations will go to several
renamo-controlled areas to make a needs assessment.

''if we don't act in an organised, realistic way, the result
could be chaos'', a swiss diplomat told ips here friday.

the diplomat added that even if the government and renamo
still sign a peace accord this week, it will be several months
before the donors make a real response. (more/ips)

(story received incomplete)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Subject: Re: Gunfire heard in Luanda
Keywords: UNITA, election
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:41:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.134423.10973@newshost.unh.edu> llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius) writes:

>have been conciliatory. Meanwhile, South African foreign minister
>Botha is on his way to Huambo (sp) to talk with Savimbi. 

This is what we mean by saying Savimbi is a puppet of the West...Otherwise
Botha, from an apartheid regime, wouldn't have the audacity to go to Angola
and talk to the shithead. The New World Odor. Unfortunately, Savimbi is not 
the only example in that region....

>There seems to be some disagreement as to whether the election results
>should be published.

Irresponsible and highly misleading statement. UNITA does not want the results
to be published, but the rest (including the international observers) disagree
with that. The results will be published this evening (Luanda time) and
all hell will break loose, according to the most current AP wire reports.

This is what I meant by saying Savimbi is a national security threat. How can
he be part of the democratic process when he is against the process?? Many,
many concessions were made to him (his army general was made the commander of
the unified force, for example) and yet short of absolute power, he will 
stop at nothing.

History has given us a very simple way of handling guys like him..A way which
will ensure he never again disgraces the African continent...I will leave that
to your imagination. 
-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet         
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp           
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
From: lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney)
Subject: Re: ANC Leadership Wanes
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 03:31:57 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1992Sep30.151638.202934@uctvax.uct.ac.za> hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:


>An honest look at the violence in Natal reveals that Inkatha has lost a very
>large number of people, and that attacks on its members are just as frequent
>and bloodthirsty as those on ANC members.



An honest look at the violence in Natal reveals that Inkatha is the
ruling party of of a brutal one-party dictatorship called KwaZulu, and
has total control of the police in virtually all black areas of Natal.

Attacks on Inkatha members in Natal have the same relation to attacks
on ANC members as attacks on members of the Vichy government had to
attacks on members of the French underground during WWII.

For all its window-dressing, the simple fact is that Inkatha remains a
fundamentally undemocratic monarchist party, which serves as
Buthelezi's vehicle for his meglomaniacal delusions of grandeur.

If the government wanted to stop the violence it could do so in short
order, by depriving Buthelezi of his artificial powr base: the
patronage machine of the KwaZulu government.  But Buthelezi serves a
very useful role for the government: it keeps the ANC weak.


-- 
larry kolodney:(lkk@panix.com) 
_(*#&)#*&%)@(*^%_!*&%^!)*&#+!*&$+!?&%+!*&^_)*&#%)*&^%#+&
The past is not dead, it's not even past.   - Wm. Faulkner

Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:5276 sanet.talk.politics:82
From: philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
Subject: Re: Third force rides again
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:33:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: shannon.1992Oct14.123331.2504
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Xxdate: Wed, 14 Oct 92 14:30:33 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12

In article <nicolson.48@odie.ee.wits.ac.za> James Nicolson,
nicolson@odie.ee.wits.ac.za writes:
>skewed legal system. 'Everyone' knows who killed Matthew Goniwe and
David 
>Webster. There is no evidence that will stand up in court - but that is
not 
>an indictment on the people who hold these views, but of the SAP.

Some interesting revelations in the David Webster inquest - the
investigating officer was told not to hold CCB men for questioning
because they'd be released immediately, CCB files disappeared etc.
This _is_ all being subjected to cross-examination so it will be
interesting to see what stands up to court procedure. None of this proves
there is a "third force" now, but it does show that the organization is
capable of such things. If the evidence heard so far is true, people
very high up in the police, army and cabinet were involved in a
cover-up.
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
From: Philip Machanick <philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za>
Subject: internet to worknet
X-Xxdate: Thu, 8 Oct 92 15:40:02 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:39:10 GMT

A week or so ago I posted a question: does anyone know how to send mail
to a workent address from the internet? If there was a reply, I may have
missed it so here goes again...
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: NIGERIA: More of the same..
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:48:37 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.

First, excerpts from the AP:

   Military Ruler Suspends             
     Political Activity In Nigeria    
                 ---
    LAGOS, Nigeria - Nigeria's return
to civilian rule is in question after
the country's military leader suspended
political activity indefinitely.
[........]
    Military sources said Gen. Ibrahim
Babangida was angered by the conduct of
primaries, which was held in three
stages last month.
    Babangida conceived the elections -
even setting up parties mirroring the
U.S. Democratic and Republican
organizations - after pledging to hand
over power to civilians.
[........]

end of AP text.

Here we go again....Why do Nigerians do it this way?? Why do they have to 
follow the US model?? It failed them miserably under Shehu Shagari and it's
going to fail them again!

This type of imitation is surely THE sincerest form of flattery and it makes
me sick!

JK

-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet         
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp           
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african