HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Re: RElearning to lead
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:11:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.111530.13912@watson.ibm.com>, eru@watson.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche) writes:
> Climbing is first of all fun !! So learning to lead should be done in an
> area where leading can be doen without any fear. That means good holds and
> good anchors == BOLTS. 
 
Yeah, this worked for me.  I had been climbing about 5.7 or so when I 
joined the local gym.  There, I managed to improve to about 5.10a, at which
point I started leading the gym climbs (the easiest were 5.9).  By the
time I started climbing outdoors again in the spring (not counting an
occasional outdoors jaunt at 5.8 or 5.9), I could lead 5.10a and top-rope
5.10b/c -- in the gym, of course.

My first (real, no bolts) lead was a 5.6.  That was about right!

I got a lot of good advice from this group -- one person suggested that I
practice placing pro on the ground, with an experienced leader critiqueing
me.  That helped a lot.  Another suggested that I key the various pieces
to body parts, so that I could quickly decide that "this is a two-finger
crack, so I use *this* friend" rather than trying a whole lot of different
pieces.

Bolted, hard but non-threatening routes for the leading attitude
Easy non-bolted routes for the gear practice

I also noticed that leading 5.8 seemed almost easier than leading 5.6, 
because on the 5.8, it was always obvious where to put the gear and where
to go, whereas on the 5.6, it was pretty easy to get offroute and put
myself where I was facing a 5.9 move!

-- 
/\     There may be honor among thieves, but there's none among politicians.
  \_][ <--NCAR Ilana Stern dod#009 r.b. cliff swallow ilana@ncar.ucar.edu    
      \______________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Climbing Partner Wanted
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 18:16:21 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

If anyone is the Fort Collins/Boulder area is interested in climbing
this weekend, either rock or ice, please reply with email.

Thanks,
-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: shoop@horton.farsef.com (Dan Shoop)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Glacier Glasses Information Request
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 11:58:22 EST
Organization: FARSEF -- The Far Side Expeditionary Force

czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon) writes:

> Which brand/model of glacier glasses performs best (non-perscription)?  I
> usually switch from fairly good sun glassess (old style Oakleys with Iridium
> lenses) to cheap glacier glasses (Bolle') as I gain altitude.  The Oakleys wo
> fine lower down but provide insufficient side protection from wind higher up
> (despite their wrap around design).  Unfortunately, the Bolle's fog up so
> badly, I need to take them off every 5 or 10 minutes to wipe them off.  More
> expensive Julbos are available in the local climbing stores.  Do they perform
> any better?  I need to get this problem worked out before heading down near t
> equator to climb this winter.  I got seriously burned in Mexico last year.
> 

I used to switch between a pair of old REI's and the Bolle's for mountaineering
and a pair of Bolle' TRG's for driving/kickin-about. I've switched to the 
Jublo mirrored lenes, and it's a startling difference. Well worth the price,
which is still reasonable. Personally I prefer a neutral-grey which the Jublo's
have, and the clarity was suprising, I wondered how I could see all those
years using the Bolle's. 

The Jublo's are by far more comfortable, and the leather nose bridge piece can
be replaced with one that has a nose guard. The Jublo's have decent ventilation
to reduce fogging.

Fogging is a problem on most glacier glasses, but if you use Cat-Crap(tm) to
clean them and keep them clean, you won't have a problem for most any glasses
you choose.

Fogging is generally caused by two major factors:

1) dirty glasses. The dirt and oil from your body provides a medium for 
the fog.

2) ventilation. Glasses without sides don't tend to fog because they don't trap
the moist air. Some air holes in the leather sides helps reduce this problem,
but can let nasty light into the sides which reflects off the glass.

But come on now, Oakleys, get real. 

-dhan



FARSEF | The                                  Dan Shoop
       | Far Side                             shoop@horton.farsef.com
       | Expeditionary                        ATTnet:          201.612.0895
       | Force                                PagerNet: 800.225.0256 #92664
                                              Snail:   127 E Prospect 07463

   "Computers are the wave of the future and I was the first to drown..."

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Re: RElearning to lead
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:47:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.195533.18218@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:
> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
> >ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
> >>eru@watson.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche) writes:
> >>> Climbing is first of all fun !! So learning to lead should be done in an
> >>> area where leading can be doen without any fear. That means good holds
> >>> and good anchors == BOLTS.
> >I hope everyone realized that good anchors do NOT neccessarily equal
> >bolts.  Almost anyone who has climbed for a while has reached a bolt
> >anchor that makes you blood run cold!!
> 
> The statement that good anchors == BOLTS certainly rang my bell.... 

Please watch your attributions when you post.  My name's up there,
but none of these words are mine.

-- 
/\     There may be honor among thieves, but there's none among politicians.
  \_][ <--NCAR Ilana Stern dod#009 r.b. cliff swallow ilana@ncar.ucar.edu    
      \______________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eno@leland.Stanford.EDU (Benedict Dugan)
Subject: Rock Climbing in New Zealand
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 17:45:24 GMT

Hello, I'm planning to visit relatives in New Zealand for 5 months starting
in January of 1993.  Since the last time I visited them in New Zealand,
rock climbing has become a large part of my life.  I would therefore
be very interested in hearing about the possibilities for climbing in New
Zealand.  From what I remember from my last visit, the alpine climbing is
incredible, but the rock is generally too crappy/crumbly for solid climbing.

Does this breakdown still hold true, or have there been "discoveries"
in recent years?

I will be there for 5 months and will have a lot of free time, so I would
appreciate any tips, advice, etc, via email.  

Thanks in advance,
Ben Dugan
eno@leland.stanford.edu

Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Date: Mon,  9 Nov 1992 22:29:44 -0500 
From: Michael Minhall Chang <mc7z+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Climbing in Hong Kong, China, Tiawan


I'm visiting Hong Kong for the Summer and was wondering if anyone had
climbed in any of these places and can give me some information about
climbing there and/or competitions.



mike c.
love 5.10's
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Subject: Glacier Glasses Information Request
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:10:36 GMT

Which brand/model of glacier glasses performs best (non-perscription)?  I
usually switch from fairly good sun glassess (old style Oakleys with Iridium
lenses) to cheap glacier glasses (Bolle') as I gain altitude.  The Oakleys work
fine lower down but provide insufficient side protection from wind higher up
(despite their wrap around design).  Unfortunately, the Bolle's fog up so
badly, I need to take them off every 5 or 10 minutes to wipe them off.  More
expensive Julbos are available in the local climbing stores.  Do they perform
any better?  I need to get this problem worked out before heading down near the
equator to climb this winter.  I got seriously burned in Mexico last year.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
From: nicolas@stam.nl (Nico Veenkamp)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: inDirect Euro-cage rattling
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:50:45 CET
Organization: Stam Tijdschriften bv, Rijswijk, The Netherlands

azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward) writes:

> I'm really glad I misposted here, this group is MUCH more fun than 
> rec.climbing. I may have to unsubscribe to them, but VERY QUIETLY - I 
> wouldnt want to disturb their slumbers by excessively noisy use of the
> 'u' key.
> 
Which newsgroup would that be Andy. The message you posted WAS in 
rec.climbing.
(where is that #$& cheek now that I have found my tongue)


      *================================================================*
      |  Nico Veenkamp	        | You write, we publish                |
      |  Stam Tijdschriften bv  | -------------------------------------|
      |  P.O. Box 235           | Internet : nicolas@stam.nl           |
      |  2280 AE  Rijswijk      | FidoNet  : 2:281/1.7                 |
      |  The Netherlands        | BIX      : nicolas                   |
      *================================================================*
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: "You know you're old when" revisited
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 17:58:29 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Nov06.001037.20078@news.mentorg.com> jane_merrow@mentorg.com writes:
>
>-- 
>
>Are there any 50, 60, or 70 year
>old climbers out there?  How many years climbing do we have left? 

I know a guy in his 60s who climbs 5.11.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Re: No More Write-Ups?
Date: 11 Nov 1992 14:14:35 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov10.213744.9757@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>,
marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt) writes:
>>>I had just gotten to that uncomfortable band atop pitch 1 (before I
>>>knew you could do pitches 1 & 2 together) where I decided to just slap
>>>on a hip belay since he had our only belay device. Bad move. He peeled
>>                                                    ^^^^^^^^
>>No shit! Multi-pitch with one belay-RAPPEL device??
>>
>>>off about a third of the way up, and the rope proceeded to cut two thick
>>>grooves into both of my hands. Fortunately the friction provided by my
>>>searing tissue was enough to gently ease him to the ground with barely
>>>a thud. (I should have mentioned that he was overweight at about 220 lbs.)
>>>With blood dripping down my hands I soloed the rest of the climb ... no,
>>>wait, that's not true -- I bailed off.
>>                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>What did you do jump? You didn't have a rap device! Jesus, you're scary.
>>
It seems like some folks may be getting a little gear dependent.
What next, do we call for rescue if we don't have the right size
friend (camalot, what ever)?  Anyone ever hear of knobs or
chockstones?  BTW, I routinely climb with just one sticht plate and
just belay the second with a hip belay.  This should never cause a
problem if you set your anchors appropriately.  (I find new climbers
who start out in a gym get a little freaked by this but they soon
realize that it is a completely reasonable procedure.)

Say, does anyone still understand about: a) nuts in opposition, b)
two nuts on one perlon sling to create a primitive camming device,
c) tying off the shaft of a rigid Friend (hmm sounds racy!), d)
other devious techniques?

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Subject: Re: Trip Report: A Day in Eldorado
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:40:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.192254.17711@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:

>I think there is an attitude problem towards anybody who is not from
>Colorado.  Xenophobia.

If you really want to start a fight in Colorado, go to a red neck bar in
Leadville.  Tell them you're from Texas.  Then tell a really stupid Colorado
joke.  Works like a charm.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Spouses as partners
Date: 6 Nov 1992 16:22:20 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov6.205220.5648@ncar.ucar.edu>,
ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
>I agree with Marc that the big problem with climbing with one's spouse
>is competition and expectation, and that maturity (emotional, not
>chronological) helps.  I am fairly immature and competitive (well, it's
>true!) and had a difficult time climbing with Britt until (1) I improved
>to within a few grades of his ability, and (2) I started leading and thus
>could feel I was taking, if not equal responsibility, at least some
>of the responsibility of the climb.
>
One example of a mismatched couple involved a case where one was
addicted to offwidth and squeeze chimneys while the other person was
quite normal.  I guess that's what happens when you marry a pervert!
:-)  Said pervert is now associated with a like-minded SO so that
half of the situation sorted itself out.  I've occasionally
fantisized about what a personals / lonely-heart add by a climber
would look like:  "5'8" NS F/M seeks opposite.  Must lead 5.11,
follow 5.10 (OW freaks need not apply)."
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Diemburger and Scott lectures
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 21:18:20 GMT

In article <BxK5wo.1Kw@world.std.com> gnray@world.std.com (Garry N Ray) writes:
>Do these fellows ever lecture in the U.S.? Or any of the other European
>paragons I've been idolizing for the past 15 years?

Sure.
Saw Diemburger years ago at West Ridge in LA.
Scott stayed in a camp on the other side of 4 and partners climbed with
him on various trips.  We invited him by UCSB and Ventura.  

If you want to hear these guys, you organize a visit yourself.
And then you go climb with them.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: klapka@vette.colorado.edu (Igor Klapka)
Subject: Europe cotation & learning to lead
Keywords: Europe cotation lead
Reply-To: klapka@vette.colorado.edu (Igor Klapka)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:31:22 GMT

Hi,

Thanks to all; this rubric is a very very intersting one.
Good advices. Friendly meetings.
I think climbing is first of all a way of live, and we can find
that in your articles; GREAT !

Coming from Belgium, (EUROPA), I try to have a beter idea for cotations 
between here and there (which are about german ones). Not only a
translation table, but a feeling of how you decide to give an
apreciation.
Differences between bouldering cotations and climb. Leader and second.
If some frequent traveller-climber could give me an idea, it should
be very climbfull.
For your knowledge, in belgo-german cotation, we have
1 or 2 spider-guys in the world : 9 a(first opened last year in germany)
                                  8 a,b,c(seems to be your 5.13-)
                                  7 a,b,c
                                  6 a(seems to be 5.10),b,c(+/- 5.11)
                                  5 -,+
                                  4 
usually beginners                 3,2(ladder),1
(+/- is also used sometimes for a relative better evaluation)

For bouldering, it depends too much from one place to another. 
Fontainebleau's forest (20miles from Paris) could be a reference.

And things are also different in mountains, but that's another story.



In response to the article 
> learning to lead
I would like to say the folowing:

In my country, when climbing, your cotation is the one you usually do
when leading. Indoor for example, some people make 5.12, but leading
outside, they can't make 5.9 !  

BUT, most of routes are PRE-equiped with pitches and bolts,
so leading is just a problem of feeling and not of safety.
As SOON as possible you have to lead.
That's really climbing. Don't wait 2 years !!!

On NON-equiped ways, things are differents. You HAVE to LEARN how to
use friends before. Your life and the one of your belayer depends on
it. 


Boulder is really one of the world famous places to climb.
(not Universe's famous, as they said about the classic third 
flatiron beginner's route in "best climb in boulder" book ...;
does someone has really an idea about 'climbing on the moon'..? :-))

Sorry for my very bad english.



          \|/                                       /\  
          -O-                                      /  \        /\
          /|\                    /|               /\/\/\ /\   /  \
                                /||              /      \  \ /    \
  ______________________________|||_||_||_______/        \  \      \
  Boulder, CO, USA:                        klapka@vette.colorado.edu
  Liege, BELGIUM:                              u5174a1@vm1.ulg.ac.be
From: scochran@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Steve Cochran)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:35:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing


>I doubt that many climbers or landowners have a clue as to what the chance
>of a landowner being found liable would actually be, and I suspect that it
>is vanishingly small.  I would encourage the climbing mags to educate climbers
>on the actual risks to landowners.  Since most climbers know how to work a
>Xerox machine, they could in turn educate landowners without much trouble.
>The old line "I know I would never sue you, and I can't imagine any of my
>friends doing it either" just isn't all that convincing.  The other reason
>climbers should know the real odds of winning a suit is to deter them or
>their next of kin from filing nuisance claims.

It's not just the probability of being found liable, it also the expense/effort
that it takes to fight even a frivolous lawsuit (- all of us have heard of 
instances when someone who signed a waiver decided to sue).  That's why so 
many suits get settled out of court for much less than the asking price.  
Either way the property owner gets screwed.  They have nothing to gain 
(except goodwill) by letting climbers go at it on their property, and 
they have alot to loose.  Its too bad for us, but under the current tort
system nothing's going to change.

SC
From: storm@geog.utah.edu (John Storm)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: IMAX theaters
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:44:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: fcom.1992Nov5.074418.21498
Organization: DIGIT Lab

In article <eric.720942024@milton>, eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst) writes:
|> sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:
|> 
|> >Anyone heard anything about an IMAX theater presentation that includes
|> >footage of a climber taking a big whipper? A colleague at work said he
|> >saw such a film in San-somewhere or another, but had no further details.
|> >Claimed it was pretty good though.
|> 
|> Truly the worst climbing footage I've ever seen.  Hero-man free climbing
|> big wall with rope but no evidence of a belayer or other system.  Makes
|> hard moves, trundles big boulders, falls on the 5.6 bit, dangles on frayed
|> rope, swings in space, further fraying the rope, grabs rock just as the
|> rope breaks in two.  It might be a fun one to take your worrying mother
|> to if you're feeling sadistic.
|> 
|> >Bob.
|> 
|> Eric Hirst
|> eric@u.washington.edu

Not the same one I saw ... the flic was about the human body and how it
handles stress and adrenaline.  I saw it at the NYC Museum of Nat. Hist..
It was composed of footage on DH ski racing, Ballet, some thing else??, and
climbing.  The climber was Tony Yanaro(sp?) somewhere in the valley.  He is
at the lip of a roof, panics and falls (granted set up!).  Gear pulls, he
goes for a BIG ride and is left in space ~1000' off the deck. I don't remember
the rope breaking part, but then again I was probably cleaning out my pants :-)
Seeing it on a 3 story screen is a hell of a way to spend an obligatory
afternoon with mom and dad!

John Storm	Internet: storm@geog.utah.edu
SLC UT		Climbers-net: 1-900-slander
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: gnray@world.std.com (Garry N Ray)
Subject: Re: RElearning to lead
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:56:41 GMT

srclark@happy.colorado.edu writes:

>Any suggestions on how to get back on the lead horse? I've joined the local
>climbing gym and think that once I get my lead card and practice 'sterile'
>leads this might help.

I had a similar problem. Had been leading .8 to .9, but after a lengthy
hiatus from climbing, could hardly follow a .4. It clearly was not an
issue of difficulty or strength, but of being generally out-psyched by the
rock. I just seconded for a while with competent leaders, quickly got back
in the groove, and am sure I'll be back to .9 next season. I know its cold
in Colorado right now, but I'd also recommend getting out of the gym, if
at all possible and if you intend to lead on rock. We all know it ain't
the same thing.
From: jacobson5821@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Help in chosing shoes.
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:22:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: iscsvax.1992Nov5.132253.8440
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

It seems no one answered my request for advice on climbing shows.  After
ascending a 5.9 in hiking boots I realized that climbing shoes are a must.  I
have looked at some 5.10's in last springs REI magazine for $99.  Do you think
that I would be satisfied with them.  Also, is it worth investing in 5.10's
since you can buy a resoling kit?  I will be climbing limestone bluffs
with quite a few cracks, pockets and overhangs.




                                         Thanks for the advice,

                                                  Paul
Newsgroups: rec.climbing