HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gural@cae.wisc.edu (Kevin M. Gural)
Subject: Re: A1200 - the REAL story....
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Distribution: World
Date: 11 Jan 93 00:14:43 CST
Summary: Built-in clock?  3.0 manuals?  Math coprocessor?  3.5" drive?
Keywords: A1200 clock 3.0 manuals math coprocessor 3.5 hard drive

In article <griffita.726704639@sfu.ca> griffita@fraser.sfu.ca (David Stuart Griffiths) writes:

[speaking on the A1200]

>My gripes:
>
>It's been said before, but it needs to be said again.  There should've
>been a clock inside.  'Nuff said.
>.
>.
>.
>The AmigaDOS 3.0 / ARexx manuals should've been included.

I currently have an A500 system, and would like to step up to a 1200.

I just picked up the Jan Amiga World and was shocked to hear the 1200
doesn't have a built-in clock.  In the magazine, they mentioned it was
_optional_... what does this mean to me?  What must I do to get a 
clock in my A1200?

I had assumed that manuals for AmigaOS 3.0 and ARexx would _naturally_
be included... now I hear testimony to the contrary!  What must I do
to get the freakin' manuals?!?

OK... while I'm at it, my other 1200 questions:  What about a math
co-processor?  I've heard from different sources that it's a factory
installed option, a dealer installed option, and a user installed 
option.  Does anyone reading know the truth?

And how about the hard drive... I have heard that a slim 3.5" drive
will work with some modification (removal?) of the RF shield.  Has
anyone else heard this?  More importantly, has anyone actually tried 
it?

Thanks much for any answers!

--Kevin
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:10:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.165813.27333@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>>
>>Any graphics with 640x480x8-bit displays or better qualifies, right?
>
>640x480x256 qualifies also.

I think you meant 640x400, here.  Otherwise, people will think that you don't
know that 8-bit = 256 colour.

> This is achievable with only 256k and is
>supported by many of the SVGA boards.  

Yes, we have some Paradise boards like that, dating from a few years back.

>Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate who loves his new 17" IDEK multiscan...
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu


-- 
David Meiklejohn (davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au)
 - PC's, Unix, and networks by day, Amigas by night...
Currently residing in Mareeba, Far North Queensland, Australia
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: e91petmo@odalix.ida.liu.se (Peter /\/\odin)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: CIS Dept, Univ of Linkoping, Sweden
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:12:14 GMT

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>Matthew Simmons (zarthac@bradley.edu) wrote:
>:
>: Second, doesn't it
>: kinda say something for the OS if its better than windows or os/2 and
>: fits on a single floppy?
>:

>Why bother with hypothetical situations?  It isn't better than either Windows
>or OS/2!

Well, I know this is nothing but your own opinion, but exactly WHAT is
Windows good at?... eating disks? ...oh, I know! Running Excel and MS Word!
I give up, NO WAY could MY Amiga do that (in its present set-up)!


--
|=Peter Modin - Responses to: e91petmo@und.ida.liu.se===========|
|                             modin@lysator.liu.se              |
| Dept. of of Computer Science, Linkoping University, Sweden    |
|---------------------------------------------------------------|
|         /// /\                ___                             |
|        /// /  \  |\    /| |  /   \  /\                        |
|   \\\ /// /____\ | \  / | | |  ___ /__\                       |
|====\\X//=/======\|==\/==|=|==\___//====\======================|
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jsg@ccs.northeastern.edu (Jonas S Green)
Subject: Re: More BS from -MB-
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:00:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.205449.17282@sol.UVic.CA> aramsey@ugly.UVic.CA (Aaron  Ramsey) writes:
>I don't think the real problem here is which computer is inherently better,
>because the Amiga comes out on top of the Mac and IBM with no problems....
>the only reason that IBM and Mac have come on top so far is the simple
>reason of marketting. John Q. Public will go out and buy most whatever is
>pushed into his/her brain. It's sad really. But I guess.... can't really
>blame them, if they haven't heard of the Amiga, they have no real choice.

I tend to agree. Most people looking to buy a home computer are thinking
Mac or MS-DOS Clone, due simply to marketting and image. The Amiga is seen
as a Specialty Video Device, not as a general purpose home computer.

I wonder how the Amiga Competes against the other lesser known machines,
for example the NeXT. I remember a while back the NeXT was advertized as
a Desktop Publishing Computer, which its custom Laser Printer and Hi-Res
Screen. 

Of course my experience of home computer shoppers is they are looking
for the Name Recognition not of MSDOS or Finder, but of Applications
like microsoft word, or Excel, or 123. (Which are now available on
both so they are stuck trying to decide between one or the other.

Curious, I have never needed a spreadsheet for home use, or a database
save for a list of phone numbers & addresses which I keep on computer.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: The Mac is not ideal (was Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:43:42 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <2f8P03ZDc7cz00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> alan@xserver.uts.amdahl.com (Alan Bomberger) writes:
>I resisted a followup for a while....

I didn't.

>
>There is a preference setting on the Print Monitor
>to keep its window open all the time it is actively
>printing.

And when it's not printing?

I ask because as long as that silly capability is there to close the window
when another app is selected, you can never tell whether something is
printing or not at  glance (unless you always know the state of
this preference setting).

>
>The latestet (7) Version of the MacOs has made it 
>possible for Applications to cooperatively multitask
>so that you can indeed calculate spread sheets and
>edit words "simultaneously", Older applications do
>not do this as it is part of the application not
>the OS (the OS provides a tool).  This muddies the
>difference between an App and a DA and gets some people
>to spend money upgrading applications to get what the
>Amiga gives for free.

What you posted makes no sense.  Applications could
cooperatively multitask in system 6.  What the
mac cannot do is pre-emptively multitask.

What is this "Tool"?

>
>It isn't the GUI that makes the Mac look better to 
>me as a developer for both Mac and Amiga.  The Mac
>is infinetly better at producing paper as one need
>only open a printer port that acts just like  a 
>window port.  One uses the same drawing instructions
>and the result goes correctly to your printer.  The

It's about the same on the Amiga.  You use the normal
graphic routines to draw into a rastport, then blast the
finished thing to the printer with one printer-independant
system call to the printer device.

Have you ever programmed the Amiga?

>application does not have to have its own printer
>driver!!

Applications on the Amiga do not need their own printer
drivers, either.  Some come with standard system drivers
but I've never bought an Amiga app that required a special
printer driver (including paint & word processing
programs).

>
>Other features are better integrated as well.

Yeah, like GetNewDialog() that doesn't return an
error code and therefore deems that if it fails, the
calling application will crash?

>
>Like most systems, it is often  the "common"
>knowledge that comes from active use that makes
>the Mac system appear good to the Mac biggots and
>the X system look good to the X biggots.

The more I learned about the insides of the MAc, the less I
liked it.  I don't see how anyone who values clean design
could see otherwise.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:13:18 GMT


On the topic, I'd get an Amiga.  I would probably suggest an IBM clone to
anyone else, since I don't feel like arguing the point.  Let Commodore do
their own advertising.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:14:30 GMT

In article <C0ouvJ.C9J@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>>What do you define as "SVGA."  Trident SVGA is about equivalent to AGA.
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>It's also about $50.00.

>All I was saying is that SVGA is a wide spectrum, you can't say "SVGA
>is this and SVGA is that."  Trident is certainly not as good as AGA,
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>but then trident is dirt cheap.

Rule number 1 of social engineering (BSing) be consistant.


--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purude.edu
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 6 Jan 1993 14:03:34 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

In article <1id2h0INNrcg@uwm.edu> bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>I'm not saying it's not possible that I zeroed the wrong thing, BUT
>I'm relatively positive that I got MS-DOS and ONLY MS-DOS.  (shrug)  I
>also wouldn't venture to say I got ALL of MS-DOS.  I wouldn't know
>whether MS-DOS creates tables, expands, whatever.  I just know I got
>the disk image, and poof.

It's been my experience that Windows *does* use MS-DOS for disk I/O.
If it didn't, then programs like Stacker, which is a disk-compression
device driver that runs as a DOS TSR wouldn't work under Windows - yet
they do.  As I understand it, the 32-bit Fastdisk feature is only used
for paging on a permanent swapfile (if you use a temporary swapfile,
the requests go through DOS).

On the other hand, I've read articles by MS employees claiming that
they could use Fastdisk for regular file access in theory.  The reason
they don't is to maintain compatibility with things like Stacker file
systems.  If they wrote their own driver, it would have to be aware of
all the different networked and compressed file systems.  The way its
done now, most of the file I/O requests pass through DOS, where they
can be intercepted by the appropriate device drivers.

Paul
-- 
Paul Secinaro
pss1@kepler.unh.edu
Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Laboratory
UNH Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Byte A4000/A3000T-040 ReviewREFRESH
From: kickstart@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:06:13 -0600
 <1992Dec29.072401.6373@desire.wright.edu> <C01HAx.LGq@news.iastate.edu>
Organization: Mankato State University

>    I can think of one right off the bat.  Commodore's problem is that the bulk
> of their sales are to these electronically-ignorant individuals who use their
> computers as home computers.  Even the bulk of A3000 and A4000 sales are to
> people who use them as home computers.  I would even bet that the majority of
> Commodore's Amiga UNIX systems went to individuals who used them as home
> computers.
> 
>    Commodore needs to sell far more systems to corporations and educational
> institutions, that would be responsible with the systems.  Apple and Compaq
> don't have the problems that Commodore has, because the bulk of their sales
> are to companies and institutions that a responsible with in-warantee systems,
> and don't attempt to have the manufacturer pay for botched work.  This dilutes
> any losses from sales of systems to individuals who do try to get the 
> manufacturer to pay for botched upgrades.


What I was always curious about was, what percentage of 3000/4000 owners are
first time Amiga owners?  It seems like all the people I knew who purchased
them were just Amiga owners upgrading systems.  Is the number of users
increasing, or is it just the same number of users continually buying a new
machine every 4 years?

> ---
> | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
> --------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------/\----------------------------------------
kickstart@vax1.mankato.msus.edu      /\/\  NeXT:  The object is the advantage.
"Christopher P. Josephes"           |\/\/|
Mankato State University             \\//
--------------------------------------\/----------------------------------------
From: iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy)
Subject: Re:  Comdex/Quicktime released for the PC
Date: 06 Jan 93 19:10:47 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

>In article <justin.02pf@hybris.UUCP> justin@hybris.UUCP (Justin Richards) 
>writes:
>> My Amiga500 is NOT by any means a professional tool, but it will run
>> circles around the Q950 (my school has 3 of em, I am not impressed with 

This I doubt. I'm an Amiga advocate. But lets get a dose of reality.
You're accelerator is what? An Adspeed? You're running circles
around 68040 machines? With 24 bit color? Yeah... right.
Considering your machine will slow to a craw if you try to run
even a 4 bit workbench, I wouldn't be bragging. I know this
for a fact as my old A3000 was a dog with a 4 bit WB.
I now own an AGA machine. Problem solved.

>> Umm lets see here...  The Amiga is going to be 9 years old this comming
>> year, and is already emulating IBM 486's at benchmarked 105 Mhz, they
>> emulate the higher up macs FASTER than the real macs go, running all of
>> their hardware....

Make that 7 years old. Now. Emulating 486s at 105 benchmarked Mhz?
Yeah... right. There isn't even a hardware based emulator that will
do that, let alone a software one. What kind of fantasy world
do you live in? Tell me the name of the product that will
give me the equivalant of a 105Mhz 80486DX based PC.
I would really like to know!

The Amiga is fine computer. I like mine a lot. But let's get
real folks. I also use PCs, know their capabilities and even
enjoy using them. But lets get real about their capabilities
too. Same goes for the Mac. Lets keep claims of greatness somewhere
within the limits of credability at least.

Ian "My Amiga kicks butt with CRAYMax III+" Kennedy
-- 
"Apple's attitude toward its ROM code is a little like that of a rich kid
toward his inheritance. Not actually knowing how to create wealth himself,
he guards what he has with hysterical fervor." - John Perry Barlow
MAIL : IANK@MICROSOFT.COM			 Crime and Puzzlement
From: kludge@carson.u.washington.edu (Eric Moon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Mac is not ideal (was Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths)
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:58:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1iaiv8INN84f
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

Hmm you know what I'd REALLY like to see on the workbench?  Something that
would make it a lot more usable...

Well besides optimizing everything so for instance names-only display doesn't
scroll like icons and such...  and no not built-in support for nice goodies
like totally user definable menus with neat CX stuff and stuff..

No, What I' really like is a nice, usable directory tree system.  Just
double-click on your disk icon and if you have directory-trees set as your
display type, it gives you a nice, easy to use, optimized tree with
collapsable directories and such...  Easy use of wildcard selects, just a
generally USABLE file management system.  Something good enough that you
don't need a DirOpus type utility and can just use what comes with the amiga.
I'm sorry if you like having a window-per-directory and can't stand trees or 
lack of big icons but it really would make workbench a _MUCH_ more usefull
tool...  Now before I start waiting for completely pointless flames about how
WB is completely adequate or that having 3rd party companies make the only
(PD is a 3rd party company here :) ) easily usable file management SW is good
for the market or some such drivel, let me give you a little user interface
hint: 
 If you want the OS to keep AppIcons, MB's hypothetical and actually
usefull Task-Icons or whatever you call them, and whatnot seperated, try this:
(you can modify it however you like)
for AppIcons:  Interface standard is _3 pixel 3d border_ so unlike program and
disk icons, these ones would appear to stand farther above the WB background.
for TaskIcons, you could have them have no 3d border - they look like part of
the background.  Or they could be below it or whatever.  However it's done,
this would be quite visable and would keep things nice and seperate...
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 7 Jan 1993 01:00:37 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <C0GBL5.Gor@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>    JRComm, Word Perfect, and PageStream.  These are the applications I use
>the most, these are the applications that I would most like to write ARexx
>scripts for, and none of these support ARexx.  

Eww.  Okay.  JRComm is lovely, but either 1) Wait for Terminus, or 2)
Dump it for something else.  I use Term.  I'll decide about Terminus
when it's released, but I like Term.  I like the fact that it's
source-released.  I like the fact that it does exactly what I want.  I
like the fact that it's got a HUGE set of Arexx functions, and you can
access menu functions from within Arexx.  It uses ARexx as its
scripting language.

As to WordPerfect.  To be honest, I'm really not sure why you're using
it.  If you're doing it for the sake of compatibility on IBM machines,
surely there's something better available.  Doesn't WordWorth v2
import and export that?

Soft-Logik's full of a bunch of thick-headed dimwits.  There's your
answer.  I don't know of any other DTP packages that support AREXX,
but I'm not versed in DTP.

Personally, I'd say dump WP and use TeX.  It's amazingly
cross-compatible.  :)

Greg
--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:13:49 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <1ihjghINNbqj@mozz.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>In article <C0GtEn.LAs@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>'>Ok... Amiga community... look out.
>'>According to Greg here, they have finally come up with a 486 that
>'>can outperform the "old 1meg A500".
>'>Although, it is a little hard to believe.
>
>	Not very hard to believe for me, since I owned both at one time.
>
>							Greg Greene
>                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu


Gee, Greg... can you come up with any substantial numbers that actually
PROVE your 486 is faster than an Amiga 500?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dleland@dante.nmsu.edu (LELAND)
Subject: Moot point (was: The Mac is not ideal) 
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 07:59:23 GMT

Guys, guys, the complaining about the Amiga needing a whole bunch of
drvers is pointless now. Under the new versions of the operating system they
are going to introduce a set of standard drivers for everything from
printers to page viewers. Ok, they should have done it before, and I KNEW
they should have done this and so on and so forth and bla bla bla and yak
yak yak. The point is they did it, and that's fine with me. 

Queen of Swords

Darrell Leland
dleland@nmsu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:27:00 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Michael van Elst (mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de) wrote:
:
: >YOU think about it.  Take a non-VM system with the same amount of RAM.  As
: >soon as IT reaches the limit, it will stall until you turn off the computer
: >and reboot.
:
: Hardly. It will refuse to run the program or perform an operation until
: the memory is freed.
:

Yes, but a badly written application (one that doesn't check the return
value of the allocation routine) can easily crash the system.  Oops, no MP.

:
: There's hardly any application for VM where a single program requires
: more memory than physically exists. As I said, it is a stopgap. Nothing
: you will really want to have.
:

Look around.  People *do* want it.

:
: Michael van Elst
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: jmpierce@whale.st.usm.edu (Jimmy Malcolm Pierce)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:45:00 GMT

 rar@auc.UUCP (Rodney Ricks) writes:
>papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>>  Of course, they could do what I did to my Amiga, bought an external
>>>drive. So both of my Amigas have an external floppy, much easier to move
>>>them from machine to machine than ms-dog machines floppy drives. DJ.
>>
>>Excuse us for liking to have our periphearls INSIDE the machine!  Give
>>me a break...now having external floppy drives is a *FEATURE*.
>
>This is said as if there aren't any MSDOS machines that have external
>floppies.  If you want to see some that do, just go to your nearest
>Radio Shack.

   The five Radio Shack model IV's we used to used here at the University
 did have an external drive on a few of them. The Tandy { same as Radio
 Shack } 1000 SXs we have { XT clones } have two internal 5.25 floppy
 drives.

>Also, I'd like to point out to Paul Prescod that all Amigas have at least one
>internal floppy drive, and most Amiga models can have additional internal
>drives, as well as external ones.
>
>In conclusion, for those machines that allow the peripherals to be inside
>the machine AS WELL AS outside then, yes, having external floppy drives
>available IS a feature.

    Yes, a feature I rather like. Which was the point I was tring to make.
 With an external drive, I don't have to dismantel a 'cabinet' to move it
 to another machine. { I have two Amigas. An A1000 and an A500. }

>P.S.  This is not, in ANY way, meant as an endorsement of Radio Shack
>      computers.  I just wanted to point something out.

   I got this impression from what you posted. DJ.

-- 
         Jim Pierce Bach. of Sci. in Applied Computer Science USM 
             jmpierce@whale.st.usm.edu  Disclaimer: Standard.
                      Video. Peter Gabriel: Steam 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.graphics