HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ben@media.mit.edu (Benjamin Kline Lowengard)
Subject: Re: We're Only In It For The Money... remixed?
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:49:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.165419.24857@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> jayceem@pike.ee.mcgill.ca (Jean-Charles Maillet) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov13.150823.28546@cc.tut.fi>, vinksu@aloysius.ee.tut.fi (Vinksu Chandrasekhar) writes:
> 
>> To be honest, the early MOI don't play too good. And the recording technology
>> of 60's is nothing worth of conserving. Would you listen to, say, Beethoven's
>> 5th recorded in 30's? There's nothing wrong to rerecord the music, if you do it
>> with good taste. (In general FZ has good taste.)
>> 
>> The sound quality is, whether we like it or not, one of the most important
>> things when listening to music. That's why I like 'Jazz From Hell' so much...
>> Everything must be as clear as possible. Everything must be close to perfect.
>
>Frank is clearly readapting his sound to the requirements of today's markets,
>and/or a new and more obvious sense of aesthetics.  Pehaps he had very little control over the sound quality of the earlier works but to me the whole thing about the early mother's stuff is the ugliness of it all.  Zappa made ugly music sound beautiful and vice-versa.  His music was borne abbrasive and seems best delivered in an abbrassive way.
>
>When I hear a nice digital Sade tune I know the big STROKE's being laid on my ears, now that's psycho-cosmetics ! when I hear the analog Freak-Out I know the big STROKE's going in the opposite psycho-cosmetic direction, because the shit is not easy to listen to. There's all these little things going on in the background that make you want to dig into it - now that's my kind of entertainment !
>
Well, according to the interviews in GP's Zappa magazine, Frank has realized
there are some folks out there who didn't like the updated versions of 
his older albums. He alludes that (maybe, possibly) a cleaned up version
of the original material could happen, now that he has "Sonic Solutions".
(the processing software he uses to clean up extraneous noise) So hang in
there. 

The more recent newer material "Best Band" and "Make a Jazz" seemed rather
bright to my ears(and to my tweeters) but this is a result of the "live
to digital" format...maybe I'm just used to tape dynamics. I'm surprised
that the Rhino Releases didn't employ slightly more meticulous consideration
when it came to preparing the Boots series for release. I've used my
own eq and compression tecniques on some of these cassettes(for listening
purposes) and it really makes a big difference in the sound quality. It's
obvious that the release of these "entertainment" devices were specifically
arranged as a business deal, and as a novelty item not as "official" Zappa
releases. 

all in all, though, I'm pleased as punch that the availability of all these
performances are around and slowly trickling out(though even zappa questions
the value of yet another "pound for a brown") . Now, how do I get into
that VAULT!!

benj
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: Studio Tan
From: bjbernstein@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Date: 20 Nov 92 09:56:16 -0500
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <921118171837.23830615@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU>, FELSON_ADJ@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU writes:
> When is FZ going to re-release studio tan?
> 
> Considering how much junk he has released on CD. why is he
> waiting so long to release greggory_peccary?  
-- 

  Studio Tan has been out on CD for quite a while now. It's a BP, not 
Ryko.. check wit yer local compact disc  distributor

 have a NICE day

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@ Brian Bernstein (Drone)           @@ "I'm a white dread, I'm a white   @@ 
@@ bjbernstein@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu @@  dread, so? I got a little ring   @@
@@-----------------------------------@@  and I hang it from my nose.."    @@
@@ the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers!@@                -Jane's Addiction  @@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
From: millerje@CS.ColoState.EDU (Jeff Miller)
Subject: Bungle (was Re: Studio Tan)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:36:56 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

>genious 'Mr. Bungle'-CD he produced (& played on!)? Mike Patton from Faith 

Does anyone know any of the other musicians on here, esp the bass player?
Killer group for sure... just to think, I missed them when they played in a 
VERY small club here in Ft Collins.

-- 
 _____________________________________________________________________________
|                                                                             |
| "Nuke the unborn gay whales!" |  millerje@cs.colostate.edu  |  Jeff Miller  |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:53:55 -0500 
From: Brian William Carroll <bc2u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Mastery Box???
Distribution: alt

   I recently saw a vinyl box set called 'The Mastery Box'.  It had ten
albums of live recordings from '68 to 74' and some more eighties.  It
also contained a '63 performance of some of Frank's yearly 'serious'
music at St. Mary college (I think that's the name) somewhere in
Califoria and a song preformed by the Kronos quartet at U.C.L.A.
sometime in the eighties. It was selling for about $80.00.

    Does anyone know anything about this box set?

Brian
From: waltersm@logica.co.uk
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: We're Only In It For The Money... remixed?
Date: 19 Nov 92 09:31:48 GMT

In article <natola.51.722034775@coos.dartmouth.edu>, natola@coos.dartmouth.edu (Mark A. Natola) writes:
> 
> I don't remeber if Lonely Little Girl is on Mothermania, but a lot of the 
> songs on that LP sound different than their album counterparts.
> 
> Mark
Mothermania had `unspliced' versions of Idiot Bastard Son and Mother People.

MCW

Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
From: pehe@electrum.kth.se (Peder Hedlund)
Subject: Re: Studio Tan et seq
Organization: Divided Misprinted Dwarf-Nebulas Inc.
	<1992Nov19.094342.351@logica.co.uk>
	<natola.56.722184682@coos.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 09:19:44 GMT

In article <natola.56.722184682@coos.dartmouth.edu> natola@coos.dartmouth.edu (Mark A. Natola) writes:

>   Well it wasn't.  I think he said it was going 
>   to be called "Martian Love Secrets".  I don't know if he was kidding or 
>   not.  I wish I still had the article because it had a list of songs, and 
>   I think some of them ended up on Studio Tan.  

 Martian Love Secrets ended up being a song title on Steve Vai's latest album
"Pleasures and Pain" (I think it is called).
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
From: s0454850@let.rug.nl (J.P. Prenger)
Subject: Re: Studio Tan
Organization: Faculteit der Letteren, Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, NL
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:10:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.150758.5154@news.media.mit.edu> ben@media.mit.edu (Benjamin Kline Lowengard) writes:
>From: ben@media.mit.edu (Benjamin Kline Lowengard)
>Subject: Re: Studio Tan (renamed: John Zorn)
>Date: 23 Nov 92 15:07:58 GMT
>
>RE:
>In article <=c31q#g@rpi.edu> petrop@vccsouth09.its.rpi.edu (Philip A. Petrocelli) writes:
>>In article <102617@bu.edu> drjim@acs.bu.edu (James Shanahan) writes:
>>>In article <83968@ut-emx.uucp> james@astro.as.utexas.edu (James McCartney) writes:
>>
>>
>>Also, it's good to see someone mention John Zorn.  HE along with Francesco are
>>my IDOLS when it comes to composition.  Sheer genius.  

Oh Yeah!! Talking 'bout John Zorn! Anybody outthere knows the absolute 
genious 'Mr. Bungle'-CD he produced (& played on!)? Mike Patton from Faith 
No More was also involved in this project! Great fun!

[By the way, it's possible that some of you are waiting for me to respond to 
their mail. And it's also possible that they'll be waiting quite a long time 
if they don't read this. I mean, some of my mail is missing  - I probably 
accidently deleted some of it. So, if you think I mean you, please re-mail 
me. Thanx & Sorry]

Jan Peter Prenger           :  'The rich are getting richer and the poor
University of Groningen     :  are getting drunk' - Paul Westerberg
The Netherlands             :
E-mail: s0454850@let.rug.nl : 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
From: petrop@vccsouth09.its.rpi.edu (Philip A. Petrocelli)
Subject: Re: Studio Tan
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:38:50 GMT

In article <102617@bu.edu> drjim@acs.bu.edu (James Shanahan) writes:
>In article <83968@ut-emx.uucp> james@astro.as.utexas.edu (James McCartney) writes:

>>   tangent -->  I wonder if there is a score available for greggary peccary
>>which is one of my all time favorite FZ compositions. It has some of his
>>neatest chromatic writing as well as parodies of many styles. This is the
>>piece I would point out to John Zorn fans .. FZ in my opinion does the
>>Zorn thing better than Zorn .. and did it before him. And anyway comical
>>medleys as a style are nothing new.
>>   --- james mccartney
>
>I also would love to see such a score.  Greggary Peccary is hilarious, if
>philosophically incomprehensible.  It's one of my favorite Zappa pieces, even
>if he didn't want it released in that particular way.
>
>-Jim Shanahan
>Boston University
>drjim@acs.bu.edu

I really love the "Greggary Peccary" story, myself...  Is it me, or does the 
story end too abruptly when Greggary finally meets the philostofer???  Am I
missing something subtle?  It seemes that the story could go on for the entire
disc, and then comes to an abrupt halt.  Just wondering if anyone felt the same
way.

Also, it's good to see someone mention John Zorn.  HE along with Francesco are
my IDOLS when it comes to composition.  Sheer genius.  Has anyone gotten the 
"Music of Carl Stalling" album on which Zorn was the Production Consultant?  I
was thinking of getting that disc as well.  I have a funny feeling that
Stalling will fast be added to my pair of aforementioned idols.
Info, anyone???

Phil
From: jayceem@pike.ee.mcgill.ca (Jean-Charles Maillet)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: We're Only In It For The Money... remixed?
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:54:19 GMT
Organization: McGill University - VLSI Laboratory, Montreal, CANADA.
Originator: jayceem@intrepid


In article <1992Nov13.150823.28546@cc.tut.fi>, vinksu@aloysius.ee.tut.fi (Vinksu Chandrasekhar) writes:
 
> To be honest, the early MOI don't play too good. And the recording technology
> of 60's is nothing worth of conserving. Would you listen to, say, Beethoven's
> 5th recorded in 30's? There's nothing wrong to rerecord the music, if you do it
> with good taste. (In general FZ has good taste.)
> 
> The sound quality is, whether we like it or not, one of the most important
> things when listening to music. That's why I like 'Jazz From Hell' so much...
> Everything must be as clear as possible. Everything must be close to perfect.

Frank is clearly readapting his sound to the requirements of today's markets,
and/or a new and more obvious sense of aesthetics.  Pehaps he had very little control over the sound quality of the earlier works but to me the whole thing about the early mother's stuff is the ugliness of it all.  Zappa made ugly music sound beautiful and vice-versa.  His music was borne abbrasive and seems best delivered in an abbrassive way.

When I hear a nice digital Sade tune I know the big STROKE's being laid on my ears, now that's psycho-cosmetics ! when I hear the analog Freak-Out I know the big STROKE's going in the opposite psycho-cosmetic direction, because the shit is not easy to listen to. There's all these little things going on in the background that make you want to dig into it - now that's my kind of entertainment !

When you ACCESSIZE the stuff then it's like spoonfeeding, just one long and
steady drawl. Now, ain't that a shame ! 

  Just can't live without that ugliest part of my body.

                      ^   ^
  ||----------0-------6---6-----
  ||--------4---4-----7---7-----
  ||------6-----------6---6-----  
  ||----6-------------6---6-----
  ||--0---------------6---6-----
  ||------------------0---0-----

"Ta da da da daa da ... Dum dum ...
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
From: jrk@cs.columbia.edu (John R. Kender)
Subject: Re: We're Only In It For The Money... remixed?
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:33:25 GMT

In article <17506@mindlink.bc.ca> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:
>
>By the way, I think the reissue of Hot Rats really sucks too.
>

In general, I agree, with one exception.  I never really listed much
to "Gumbo Variations" on vinyl (I liked "Son of Mr. Green Genes" best
there).  But, the extra minute or so of added material on the CD version,
including the lead-in and several four-bar sections, seem to round out
the concept of the piece.  

Still can't get used to hearing all the treble, after 20 years of turning
the vinyl into black powder. . . .

John

Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Wizard shot the food!)
Subject: Re: Studio Tan
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:37:00 GMT

>I also would love to see such a score.  Greggary Peccary is hilarious, if
>philosophically incomprehensible.  It's one of my favorite Zappa pieces, even
>if he didn't want it released in that particular way.
>-Jim Shanahan
>Boston University
>drjim@acs.bu.edu

This would have to be one of the most difficult pieces to transcribe, it's hard
to think of a denser piece of music. There is lots of studio trik in evidence,
too like the sped up voices, typewriters and what sounds like an entire extra
drum track recorded at half speed and then sped up. 


Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
>Here comes a jet ski.
>weuh weeuhh weeuhh weeuhh WEEUHH WEEUHH WEEUHH WEEUHH weeuhh weeuhh weeuhh weuh
From: natola@coos.dartmouth.edu (Mark A. Natola)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: We're Only In It For The Money... remixed?
Date: 19 Nov 92 14:21:57 GMT
Organization: D.M.S. Section of Neurology

In article <1992Nov19.093148.350@logica.co.uk> waltersm@logica.co.uk writes:
>From: waltersm@logica.co.uk
>Subject: Re: We're Only In It For The Money... remixed?
>Date: 19 Nov 92 09:31:48 GMT

>In article <natola.51.722034775@coos.dartmouth.edu>, natola@coos.dartmouth.edu (Mark A. Natola) writes:
>> 
>> I don't remeber if Lonely Little Girl is on Mothermania, but a lot of the 
>> songs on that LP sound different than their album counterparts.
>> 
>> Mark
>Mothermania had `unspliced' versions of Idiot Bastard Son and Mother People.

>MCW
I seem to recall that "It Can't Happen Here" also had a different fade out 
than the Freak Out version.  I'm going to have to pull that record out and 
look into this stuff.  There was another MGM Greatest Hits type LP with "
Big Leg Emma" and "Why Don't You Do Me Right" that I think had CENSORED 
versions of a couple songs from WOIIFTM.  Time to crank up the turntable 
again. 

Mark
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
From: s0454850@let.rug.nl (J.P. Prenger)
Subject: Early Works-CD
Keywords: Early Works-Cd
Organization: Faculteit der Letteren, Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, NL
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:35:39 GMT

Hi there!

Last week I've bought me the 'Early Works`-CD. (Maybe there's been some 
mailing on this, but I guess I wasn't connected to this newsgroup then; 
I mean, the CD has been out for quite a time) Besides the fact that I 
already knew the songs (from some documentary on 'The Yellow Shark'-project 
on Dutch radio), I was very disappointed in the price-quantity balans. About 
16 minutes for 25 guilders, goddamned! (I guess this is about 15 dollars.)

But, there was a great booklet in it! A lot of pages! But, eh... they're in 
Japanese, so I couldn't read 'em (except for the three pages with lyrics). 
So, my question is, is there somebody who has the text translated? Please E-
mail me! 

[I've mentioned it in my last mail, but again: I've accidently deleted some 
mail, so when you're waiting for my response.. I'm sorry, please re-mail 
your post. Thanx]

Jan Peter Prenger           :  'The rich are getting richer and the poor
University of Groningen     :  are getting drunk.' - Paul Westerberg
The Netherlands             :
E-mail: s0454850@let.rug.nl :
From: orf@skool.ssec.wisc.edu (Leigh Orf)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Remixes, reissues, re-performing!
Date: 15 Nov 92 22:14:30 GMT
Reply-To: orf@ssec.wisc.edu (Leigh Orf)
Organization: Atmospheric & Oceanic & Space Sciences Dept., UW Maidson, WI

In article <17506@mindlink.bc.ca>, Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike
Quigley) writes:

>It's unfortunate that the bass and drum lines got screwed up, but I
>don't think the decision to add modern sounding replacements is a
>satisfactory solution to the problem. Surely it would be possible to take
>a near-pristine copy of the album (the original) and use today's
>technology to remove the distortion and surface noise. (Anyway, I hear
>that it may be reissued, perhaps from a long-lost tape??)

I thought the same thing! And it would be so much simpler. There are some
awesome turntables out there (which some of you may own) that would do the
trick well enough for most of us. Sometimes I think Frank gets a little too
eager to play with the controls when it comes to reissues and remixes. 

I diagree with Vinksu Chandrasekhar's assertion that better sound quality
-> better to listen to. I agree that the sound quality of _Jazz From Hell_
is very good. But the music.... bleah. Dry & relatively uninteresting (imo
of course). I must admit that one of the reasons why I bought it was
because it was a digital recording & done on a glorified computer. But I
have learned that just because something is recorded digitally with good
equipment does NOT mean I will enjoy it. It took a year or so, but now I
don't even look at the DDD/AAD/ADD labels anymore. In fact, I have heard
some CD releases of stuff from the late '60s whose sound quality exceeds
that of a lot of what is released today. _In Search Of The Lost Chord_
(Moody Blues) is one example. I hear many examples of awful sounding
digital recordings because of the fact that the person who mixed it & eq'd
it didn't do a good job. Personally, I hate when they over-eq the high end
and just to really irritate me, throw in a lot disgusting digital echo! 
Bleaugh! Too much salt makes anything taste bad, but a little can enhance
nicely. And who the hell needs 64 tracks, anyway??? Rant rant rant....

>By the way, I think the reissue of Hot Rats really sucks too. I haven't
>bought the one of Ruben and the Jets, since I have 2 copies of the
>original, both very scratchy (but that adds to the "feel")...  

I am familiar only with the Ryko release of Hot Rats. What a great album...
I am glad that I am not familiar with the original because I am sure that I
would like it better. The bass is not very much there and some of the high
end is grating on the Ryko release... but since I don't have the original
to compare it to, it doesn't bother me all that much.

Overall, I think Frank has done a good job with his CD reissues, but not a
perfect one.

leigh
                                     -*-
        * '76 Saab 99 * Sprecher Amber * Phish * Radio Netherlands *
     "Black things billowing forth with the power...
| /_|/_|_| /\|>|_                  ...of ten billion butterfly sneezes"
|_\ |\/| | \/|\|                                       - Moody Blues
From: FELSON_ADJ@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Studio Tan
Date: 18 Nov 1992 16:22:17 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

When is FZ going to re-release studio tan?

Considering how much junk he has released on CD. why is he
waiting so long to release greggory_peccary?  
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
From: xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters)
Subject: Re: We're Only In It For The Money... remixed?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:04:55 GMT

In <1992Nov19.042214.27548@cs.com> larry@cs.com (Larry Spence) writes:

>Frank said that the tapes for _WOIIFTM_ had been stored so poorly that the
>oxide had flaked off and you could _see through the tape_ in places.  No
>way is any amount of DSP going to "correct" or "interpolate" that...
>NoNoise deconvolves the background crud out, but it can't _add_ anything,
>as I understand it.

Well, then it's a good thing that he ever released the album.  Surely
NoNoise can interpolate around clicks and pops from the vinyl?  The
question in my mind is:  how much does a good "NoNoise" editing setup
going to cost?  Can Frank afford it, and/or is it going to be cost
effective to do this for the few heads who really want it.  I have no
idea.

I haven't heard the updated WOIIFTM, but I do know that, for the most
part, I prefer the re-mixed Hot Rats.  Except for Peaches.  I think I
liked the original mix of Peaches better.  <shrug>
-- 
Chris Waters    | the insane don't | "Don't you boys know NICE songs?"
xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers |                 -- Mrs. Borg
From: larryh@cabezon.uucp (Larry Huntley)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: We're Only In It For The Money... remixed?
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:27:33 GMT
Organization: Logic Modeling Inc of Beaverton Oregon

In article <1992Nov13.150823.28546@cc.tut.fi> vinksu@aloysius.ee.tut.fi (Vinksu Chandrasekhar) writes:
>
>I only know the CD version. I would like to know, in detail if possible, WHAT
>was removed from the original? What was changed? And I would like to know,
>why everyone thinks the CD version sounds bad compared to the original. It
>would be logical to think that drums & bass sound better...
>
>To be honest, the early MOI don't play too good. 

 To be REALLY honest, the early MOI play way the fuck better than anybody else
 playing at the time.  We are, after all, talking musicianship here, not top
 hits or gold records...

>And the recording technology
>of 60's is nothing worth of conserving. Would you listen to, say, Beethoven's
>5th recorded in 30's? There's nothing wrong to rerecord the music, if you do it
>with good taste. (In general FZ has good taste.)

 If the 30's recording was a significant performance, I'd listen to it.  It
 could be the only surviving recording of a particular work by a certain
 artist, conductor, or orchestra.  A good performance is a good performance.
>
>The sound quality is, whether we like it or not, one of the most important
>things when listening to music.

 But, ultimately, the performance is THE most important thing.  CD's and DAT
 make the music sound aesthetically 'better' but I still listen to my LPs and
 cassettes, too.  I listen to the music.

>That's why I like 'Jazz From Hell' so much...

 I like it a lot myself.

>Everything must be as clear as possible. Everything must be close to perfect.
>
 I think we'll continue to disagree, here.

 - Larry Huntley
-- 
         (larryh@lmc.com)         |         --TALK.BIZARRE-- 
     Logic Modeling Corporation   |      The Suppurating Abcess
          Beaverton,  OR          | of the INTERNET - Dr. Donald Wildmon