HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbc@tc.fluke.COM (Dan Carson)
Subject: Dave Barry running for office?
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:20:31 GMT


The other night I was flipping back and forth between the Braves' game
and Get Smart when I caught a glimpse of Dave Barry on some channel in
between.  I flipped back to find him, only to discover it wasn't Dave
Barry at all - it was Al Gore!  Anyone else see a resemblance?  Come to
think of it, did you notice you never see Dave and Al together?

Dan Carson

Disclaimer:  I don't mean to imply that Dave Barry would be any more
entertaining as a vice president than the current office holder.
Newsgroups: uw.forsale,seattle.general
From: issarny@cs.washington.edu (Valerie Issarny)
Subject: Yard Sale
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 22:58:19 GMT




                        Yard Sale
                  
                    29-30 August 1992

             2617 NW 58th (in Ballard), Seattle

                       10 AM - 5 PM



Most items are less than a year old, and include:

    - Double futon + frame + cover, 
    - Electronic (Bose speakers 301, 
                  Kenwood stereo receiver/amplifier, 
                  Yamaha keyboard portasound) 
    - Storage cabinets,
    - Comforters,
    - Kitchen stuff.


    	 	 
Xref: sparky seattle.general:2824 pnw.general:1955
From: wbg@mtek.com (W. Brewster Gillett)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: Re: Caller ID's fundamental flaw
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:57:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: mtek.1992Aug27.215735.15442
Reply-To: brew@mtek.com
Distribution: pnw
Organization: MTEK International, Inc.

Randal - in case you missed the earlier thread-segment, you should be aware
that businesses have had the ability to ID calling numbers for quite some
time. It's called ANI and is an outgrowth of a facility that phoneco
operators have had for years. Many large telemarketing orgs use ANI, often
tying it to their customer database so as to flash up account history. I see
CallerID as primarily aimed at the residence & small-business user. The
really big dogs don't need it. Just setting the record straight .. :-)

-- 
_________________________________________________________________
brew@mtek.com
MTEK International, Inc.             Throughput Technology Corp.
Throughput!
Xref: sparky seattle.general:2831 pnw.general:1962
From: lmorris@mdd.comm.mot.com (Larry Morris)
Subject: Re: Caller ID's fundamental flaw
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Distribution: pnw
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:06:10 GMT

In <MERLYN.92Aug26105759@romulus.reed.edu> merlyn@romulus.reed.edu (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:

...

>This is the fundamental flaw of Caller ID.  You don't get a *person* id,
>just a *channel-of-communication* id.

>And that's not sufficient (I won't argue the side for "is it
>necessary").

>Take this brief test:
>Quick.... the phone number on the screen is 777-0095

>is it:
>a) your friend?
>b) your friend at a friend's house?
>c) your significant other?
>d) your significant other at a friend's house?
>e) your significant other at the store needing a ride home because the car
>   broke down?
>f) your doctor with information about your blood test?
>g) a telemarketing slimeball?
>h) the same person that harrassed you 10 minutes ago, but at a new phone?

OK, I took your test.  I didn't recognize the number, so I let it go to my 
answering machine.  I then check the message later.  On the other hand, if
I did recognize the number and it was from a friend or parent I could pick
it up.  And your business analogy is lacking.  I (and likely you) already give
out my number when I call 1-800 numbers.  

The peep-hole in my door is insufficient if the visitor hides their face or
stands way to one side.  That does not mean that peepholes are of no use.
I am allowed to make a decision on opening the door for the deceiver.
This used to be a question of privacy.  Then the privacy issues were addressed
(ID blocking, etc.) so now it has moved on to a variety of other causes.  If
you object to paying for ID, fine.  But don't presume to know how useful
ID might be for others.  ID combined with an answering machine is (IMHO)
better than the answering machine alone.
-- 
Internet:    <lmorris@mdd.comm.mot.COM>   |  Larry Morris
 ...uw-beaver!sunup-----\                 |  Motorola/Mobile Data Division
 ...uunet-----------------!mdisea!lmorris |  19807 North Creek Parkway
 ...van-bc!mdivax1------/                 |  Bothell, WA  (206) 487-5810
Xref: sparky seattle.general:2845 pnw.general:1975
From: leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: Re: Caller ID
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:11:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug30.141119.18802
Reply-To: 70465.203@compuserve.com
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick) writes:

>As to long distance, isn't it the case that CID can't show numbers 
>from outside the area?

No! Several people on comp.dcom.telecom have reported getting out
of area calls with Caller-ID displayed. It isn't *always* possible
because the entire path of the call has to go via SS7 capable trunks
for the info to get passed to the destination.

To allow things like being able to keep the same 800 number when
changing long distance carriers, the FCC is *requiring* that all phone
companies have ss7 installed by early next year. They based this
on what the phone companies told them regarding how long it would
take. Last figures anybody has seen show most phone companies at
about 90% or better SS7. US West is only 60%. And they are asking for
more time.... seems that they can't meet their own time-table!
-- 
Leonard Erickson		      leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com
CIS: [70465,203]			 70465.203@compuserve.com
FIDO:   1:105/51	 Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org
(The CIS & Fido addresses are preferred)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,uw.general
From: mtakacs@milton.u.washington.edu (Tak)
Subject: Rent a room in 5 bedroom Udistrict House (260/mo)
Followup-To: poster
Summary: Room for rent in 5 bedroom house, 260 month
Keywords: room rent house 260 rent me
Organization: HITLabs: Human Interface Technology Lab
Distribution: seattle
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:31:13 GMT
Expires: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 07:00:00 GMT


----ROOMMATE NEEDED----------------

    + You'd get one unfurnished bedroom in an otherwise
      fully furnished house in the University District.

    House has:
    + 5 bedrooms    	    	    + storage garage
    + 2 kitchens    	    	    + porch
    + 2 bathrooms   	    	    + plenty of street parking
    + living room & dining room	    + short walk to campus (10-15min)
    + washer & dryer	    	      bus lines at corner

    Us:
    + UW grad student	    	    + 1 cat 
    + 3 Art Institute students	    + easygoing & fun
    + Occasional house parties
    
    Stuff you need to know:
    + 260.00 mo + share of phone, gas and electric
    + 150.00 deposit, plus first/last month rent to move in
    + Available as of Sept 1, 1992
    + 1 year individual lease with landlord
    + no handicap access (flight of steps to steet)
    + male or female.
    
    + Address:
    	5062 7th Ave Ne
    	Seattle Wa, 98105
    	545-9563
    Contact: Mark, Eric, Steve or Jerry
    	Call noon - late (we're up til 1ish usually) but DON'T call 
	before noon, we're not home and/or sleeping. 
     


Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: lee@seanews.akita.com (Lee Hauser)
Subject: Re: Any recommendations for a local, non-profit PC BBS?
Organization: SEANEWS - Seattle Public Access News & Mail
Distribution: seattle
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:50:55 GMT
Keywords: BBS Seattle

In article <1992Aug25.040720.16663@tc.fluke.COM> moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
(Jeff Meyer) writes:
>Anyone have any recommendations for a local PC BBS where the Sysop's
running
>it for enjoyment instead of as an investment?  Something with good PC
tech
>chat, etc.?
>
>                           "If there are twelve clowns in the ring, you
can
>                            jump in and start reciting Shakespeare --
but to
>                            the audience, you'll just be the thirteenth
>                            clown."
>                                           -- Neil Gaiman [?]
>---
>                                        Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
>INTERNET:     moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
>Manual UUCP:  {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
>CREDO:        You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
>                 **>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**


Try Babel, 363-8969.  Currently running BabeCit on a CP/M machine (yes,
I said CP/M).  Very little Windows stuff but lots of PC tech talk on
DOS, CP/M and Unix systems.  Run strictly as a hobby, very reliable,
lots of great people (well, not LOTS -- you can usually get online
pretty quickly, since there's a 30 minute call limit, which is very
reasonable).  It's in North Seattle.

Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: fyl@fylz.wa.com (Phil Hughes)
Subject: Movie: The Panama Deception
Organization: FYL
Distribution: seattle
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 03:17:11 GMT

I just went to see "The Panama Deception", a new movie by the
Empowerment Project.  It premiered at the Neptune on August 20 and is
now showing at the Metro Cinemas (U district).  It was produced by the
same people as did Coverup and, like coverup, narrated by Elizabeth
Montgomery.

Much like Coverup it doesn't draw conclusions but it presents human
and video testimony of events.  It presents the mainstream coverage of
what happened (actually going back to 1903 when the U.S. created
Panama) and then fills in the blanks with Panamanians who were there
as well as various experts.  I felt it did a very good job of
presenting this information.  I didn't leave feeling good about what
we did in Panama but I do feel I have a better understanding of what
happened.
-- 
Phil Hughes - FYL - 8315 Lk City Wy NE - Suite 207 - Seattle, WA 98115 
Phone: 206-526-2919 x74      Fax: 526-0803
E-mail: fyl@fylz.com or nwnexus!fylz!fyl or cpac.washington.edu!fylz!fyl
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com (Doug Rudoff)
Subject: French Instruction
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:11:54 GMT


I need to improve my French speaking skills in the next few weeks.
Can anyone recommend any language school in Seattle?
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Doug Rudoff          Motorola, Seattle    INTERNET:rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com
                                            USENET:uunet!mdisea!rudoff   
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Xref: sparky seattle.general:2796 pnw.general:1929
From: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: deadlock on Caller ID
Date: 28 Aug 92 03:43:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: Tomobiki.MS-C.714973387.377401575.mrc
Organization: University of Washington
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0

Well, it seems this discussion has gotten as far as it can reasonably be
expected to do.

On one side we have people who say "I want Caller ID, I'm willing to pay for
it, and I don't see what is wrong with me getting this information from anyone
who presumes to call me."

On the other side we have people who say "Caller ID is stupid, it just gives
more revenue to US West, it doesn't solve any problems, and I don't see why
anyone should be allowed to get this information."

This is a deadlock.  Those of us who want Caller ID have run up against the
Political Correctness Police who feel it is the business to tell us what we
are and are not allowed to have or own.

It's amazing that these often tend to be the same clowns who claim that drugs
should be legalized on the grounds that the government should have no business
interfering in what a person can buy.  The hypocrisy of interfering between
willing buyers (those of us who want Caller ID) and willing sellers (the phone
companies) doesn't reach them.  Nor will it.

Fortunately, it is more likely that we will have Caller ID someday than we
will have legal drugs.
From: dash@fylz.wa.com (Mike Dash)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Sept 26 Conference on Community Activism
Date: 23 Aug 92 20:52:26 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: FYL

There will be a day-long working conference on working for progressive
social change. The conference will be held Satuday, Sept 26 at Seattle
Central Community College.

Workshops will include fundraising, lobbying, computer networks, press
relations and more. Booths and tabling are encouraged.

For more info contact John Chandler at the Peace Campaign (547-3977)
or Julie Simpson at Sane/Freeze (524-3720).
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
Subject: Owner of Last Exit Coffeehouse passes away
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:52:46 GMT

I just learned that Irv Cisski (sp? I have also seen it "Siske"), the
owner-operator of Seattle's oldest coffeehouse, which produces the best
mochas in town, died about a week ago.  RIP.  There will be a wake at
8AM, Saturday, September 12, at the Last Exit, according to a sign I
saw posted there.

The UW is probably planning to tear the building down, probably to build
a "Center for Politically Correct Studies", or a parking lot.  There goes
an old hangout.  :( :( :(
-- 
kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
 "People who sign their own .sig are just net.personality wanna-bees." --
 K. Cockrum
Xref: sparky seattle.general:2789 pnw.general:1923
From: pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: Re: New topic (incredible) (was: Re: Seattle Online / polari)
Date: 27 Aug 92 11:11:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: rwing.1745
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Totally Unorganized

In article <1992Aug25.182358.24204@eskimo.celestial.com> alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler) writes:
>In article <klg.714699444@statsci> klg@statsci.com (Kevin L. Gross) writes:
>> My personal glee at your problems
>>intensifies since the "the phone company" at which you point your finger,
>>is likely the same phone company for which you were proselytizing caller
>>id last year.
>
>     Sorry to find a totally irrelevant topic in your post but this is
>something I would be interested in hearing other peoples opinions on.
>I support caller ID.  This is one of the few areas I totally disagree
>with the opinions of the ACLU on.  I think the right to privacy of my
>own home is supported by me being able to know who it is that is calling
>me.  When my phone rings it is my privacy in my home that is being entered
>by the caller.

Don't publish or list your number if you don't want just anybody calling.

How about folks that have paid for unlisted and unpublished numbers,
usually to prevent harassing calls?  Caller ID which cannot be disabled
kind of eliminates the ability of one to choose who they want to give
their number to.  Caller ID is OK as long as there is a means by which
one can disable the passing along of the number usually by dialing a
special prefix code.  For the purposes you mention the phone company
can always log the caller ID info in their records (they allready have
that ability, since the info is needed for LD billing).

Where a harassing call, etc came from can be tracked down if the time
of the call is known, just preserving the info or properly
cross-referencing it is needed, certainly a trivial addition for caller
ID.  The originating number is ALLREADY available, else the enhanced
911 service couldn't work.  In the case of calling to check if one is
home, caller ID is of no use, since (as I understand it) no ID is passed
if the call is not completed (the called end doesn't go off-hook).  You
can BET that in any caller ID system provides for those declard as
'imporant' folk can disable THEIR caller IDs, this should be available
to anyone who pays for unlisted and/or unpublished numbers.  Without
that safeguard, I cannot ever support the idea of caller ID.  There is
no easy way to determine the destination of a call - a private party or
some business that would record (and sell to boiler rooms) numbers of
folks calling for some inquirey on a product or service.  One shouldn't
have to pay the price of junk phone calls to merely call some business
to check on prices, availability of some product or service, etc.

In other words, your privacy doesn't take precidence over mine.

-- 
pat@rwing.uucp                                  (Pat Myrto),  Seattle, WA
                      If all else fails, try:
         ...!uunet!{pilchuck, polari}!rwing!pat
WISDOM:    "Travelling unarmed is like boating without a life jacket" 
Xref: sparky seattle.general:2864 pnw.general:1995
From: lmorris@mdd.comm.mot.com (Larry Morris)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: Re: New topic (incredible) (was: Re: Seattle Online / polari)
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:46:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: mdd.1992Aug31.174622.8821
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA

In <1745@rwing.UUCP> pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto) writes:

>How about folks that have paid for unlisted and unpublished numbers,
>usually to prevent harassing calls?  Caller ID which cannot be disabled
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>kind of eliminates the ability of one to choose who they want to give
>their number to.  Caller ID is OK as long as there is a means by which
>one can disable the passing along of the number usually by dialing a
>special prefix code.  For the purposes you mention the phone company
>can always log the caller ID info in their records (they allready have
>that ability, since the info is needed for LD billing).

>In other words, your privacy doesn't take precidence over mine.

OK, are you just blathering, or do you know something I don't about the
proposed CID.  Last I saw, U.S. West offered Per-Line and Per-Call Blocking,
Call Trace, Call Return, and several other goodies.  If you know otherwise,
please post details.  If you don't know otherwise, get a clue before 
joining on a rather decrepit bandwagon of folks who think they are 
protecting everyones rights.  The only rational arguments I have seen in
this entire discussion revolve around pricing and what are free/cost
services.  Lets drop the FUD and stick with facts.
-- 
Internet:    <lmorris@mdd.comm.mot.COM>   |  Larry Morris
 ...uw-beaver!sunup-----\                 |  Motorola/Mobile Data Division
 ...uunet-----------------!mdisea!lmorris |  19807 North Creek Parkway
 ...van-bc!mdivax1------/                 |  Bothell, WA  (206) 487-5810
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
From: alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler)
Subject: Re: Caller ID
Organization: =>ESKIMO NORTH (206) 367-3837 SEATTLE, WA.<=
Distribution: pnw
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:25:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.061025.11388@fnx.uucp> jp@fnx.uucp (Jack Pospyhala) writes:

>I think you have the wrong idea here.  You say you can't think of a
>legitimate reason for someone to hide their ID.  Well, if I call a local
>business for information, I don't want them to have my phone number and
>address just because I called.  That is a violation of my privacy.  With
>caller-id you create a situation where someone that wants to harass me
>has only to use a pay phone (WHICH THEY PROBABLY DO ANYWAY, IF THEY ARE
>SMART), but in order to get information of any type without having my
>number entered into a mailing/phone list by the business I call, I now
>have to leave my house and go use a pay phone.

   This seems to be one of the main arguments against caller ID.  The fact
that you might get your name on a phone list.  (horrors)  Lets see ... if
you pay for anything by credit card, if you order a magazine, if you buy
anything through the mail, if you donate to charity, if you enter a 
sweepstakes, if your address is on your checks - you get put on mailing
lists every time you do any of those things.  You really have to live a
restrictive lifestyle if avoiding being put on a list is that important
to you.  Then it gets down to how often do you call a business that you
have never bought anything from by check, credit card, or mail order?  I
bet for most of us it is seldom or never.

   So far the benefits of caller ID greatly seem to outweight any possible
disadvantages.

-- 
****************************************************************************
* Dave                          *               The Alpinist               *
* alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com *            DARE to be stoopid!           *
****************************************************************************
Xref: sparky seattle.general:2911 pnw.general:2030
From: kenh@seahcx.UUCP (Ken Hughes)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: WSP radar?  (was: WSP's `cellular listening center')
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:20:17 GMT
Reply-To: kenh@seahcx.UUCP (Ken Hughes)
Organization: Harris Computer Systems, Bellevue, WA

In article <1992Sep2.142331.25353@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen) writes:
>In article <MS-C.715375780.662824084.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>, mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) writes:
>   
>That's becuase the WSP is mostly interested in sitting by the side of the 
>road, watching their precious radar. I've lost count of the number of times
                               ?????
Hmmmm....  this brings up a question.  I was told recently that the WSP has
moved to laser speed detectors.  Can anyone confirm?  I was told that they
can "spot" the laser on a single car in traffic for an undetectable "gotcha".

Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: bergen@milton.u.washington.edu (Scott Bergen)
Subject: Any Good Writers Clubs in the Area?
Reply-To: bergen@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:46:01 GMT

A friend of mine is looking for a group of aspiring writers who get together
once a week or so to exchange stories, ideas, or tips.

Anyone know of such a thing in the Seattle area?

My friend thanks you,
Scott
bergen@u.washington.edu

Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
From: jp@fnx.uucp (Jack Pospyhala)
Subject: Re: Caller ID's fundamental flaw
Organization: I/Ovations
Distribution: pnw
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:54:29 GMT

In <1992Aug30.143713.19229@qiclab.scn.rain.com> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:
>jp@fnx.uucp (Jack Pospyhala) writes:

>>Hardly the same thing.  What's the worst that could happen if you opened
>>the door to someone that covered the peephole?  Most people would say
>>the worst is that they barge into your house, rape and torture you, and
>>then kill you.  Comparing that to an anonymous phone call is ludicrous.

>True, emotional rape can be a lot *worse* than the physical kind. 

>I am *not* trivializing rape. But too many people don't seem to understand
>what kind of damage can be done by a sicko with just a few phone calls.

Worse than torture, rape, and death, huh?  Please spare us your preaching.
You "emotional rape" types should go out and get a *real* life.  You're
probably the same ones that use the home shopping network and call those
1-900-TOO-SEXY numbers instead of venturing out into reality...

-- 
Jack Pospyhala                                    uunet!pilchuck!fnx!jp
There is no gravity, the world sucks...
Xref: sparky seattle.general:2828 pnw.general:1959