HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Are Fetal Heart Monitors needed??
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:36:48 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

In article <31AUG199209455209@trentu.ca> bwolfe@trentu.ca (BEN WOLFE) writes:
>Fetal heart monitors are one of the best examples of the problems with
>modern obstetrics. The World Health Organization has described them as "a
>model of the inappropriate use of technology." The inventor of the
>monitor, Dr. Edward Hon, has made a point of saying that most doctors are
>not using monitors correctly, and as a result are performing many
>unnecessary caesareans.
>
>A slew of reputable studies published in the most prominent obstetrical
>journals, involving many tens of thousands of women, shows that fetal
>heart monitors do *not* improve birth outcomes. They do, however, increase
>the caesarean rate dramatically. They do this partly because using them
>requires that your freedom of movement in labour be severely restricted.
>If you have an internal monitor, you have to lie down through labour in the
>classic stranded beetle position (the *worst* for you and your baby).
>

Interesting.  When I was pregnant and reading, I read "Pregnancy for Today's
Woman" which stated emphatically that studies had shown that there is a
marked decrease in birth related disorders since the routine use of fetal
monitors.  I believe cerebral palsy was one such disorder that the author
of the book (an M.D.) claimed could be avoided entirely with correct use
of monitoring and intervention when necessary.  

So I would say that, at best, the professional community is in disagreement.
Which, of course, makes it harder for us consumers to know.

Frankly, I LIKED the monitor.  I had it set to I could watch the contractions
and the baby's heart rate.  Having lost two pregnancies, one rather late in
the pregnancy, I was seriously neurotic over the baby's health.  Hearing the
heartbeat and watching the contractions on the monitor were more reassuring
than any human could ever have been.  My C-section was not caused because of
fetal monitoring.  However, I would be a statistic because I had a C-section
and had monitoring.  The fetal monitor showed that the baby was handling the
labor quite well.  It was Mom who was in serious danger.  My cervix never
dilated past 1.5 cm.  I was exhausted.  I WANTED a C-section after 20 hours
of non-productive and very intense labor.

I guess its one of those risk assessment things.  But from my point of view
and basing it on all the reading I did (yes, 4 years ago), I would say that
if there was a 1% chance that monitoring could prevent a birth defect, I'd
pick the monitor.  Especially since it is non-invasive and, at least to me,
can be very reassuring.
-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
Organization: Alumni Relations, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:25:44 -0400 
From: Dana Lindsay Rinehart <dr18+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Baby Cries in Carseat
	<1992Aug25.192546.5029@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>

>I know I'm going to get tons of "*you're* not a parent so you can't
>possibly know what it's like to deal with a constantly crying baby...etc"
>responses, but here goes anyway...  When I read of/see parents who hold
>their babies in their laps (for *whatever* reason) it really gets to
>me.  There are far too many stories of children in accidents getting
>thrown right through the windshield or through the window.  Every time
>I see it I get a sickening feeling in my stomach because the parents
>should know better, and would have worse problems than constant crying
>should a car hit them.
> 
>I am honestly interested in the opinions of all you misc.kidders out
>there on this.  Am I alone in this.  My SIL took care of her twins by
>herself and had the same problem with my nephew -- constantly crying
>choking, etc.  Her solution was pulling over and going back to him
>until he was better. I'm not saying this is the best idea, but this
>is what she did in the same situation.
> 
>Flames to /dev/null. I'm just interested in serious opinions. I'm
>not interested in a fight. Thanks. :)
>---
>Jackie Brady/jackie8@cc.bellcore.com/908-699-5458		    
>(My company has nothing to do with my opinions.)
>Consequences, schmonsequences...as long as I'm rich! -- Daffy Duck
 
I agree completely.  It drives me crazy to see people holding their
babies and small children in their laps. 

If you plan for lots of extra time so you can stop often and let the
child have a break from the carseat and be comforted, then you shouldn't
have the stress of needing to keep driving for hours and hours on end
with a screaming child.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Sand under Swings?
From: Dennis.Ingram@actrix.gen.nz (Dennis Ingram)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:27:49 GMT
Organization: Actrix Networks

olney@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Doug Olney) writes:
> 
> 
> Howdy!
> 
>     We've decided to replace the weeds under the kid's swing set with
>     something more appropriate.  But what?  We'd love to do sand, but
>     I have visions of a giant kitty litter box.  On the other hand, the
>     local park doesn't seem to have any trouble.  Does anyone:
>     
> 	   o Know how parks avoid kitty problems?
> 	   o Have experience with sand they would like to share?
> 	   
>     Of course, if anyone has a favorable report on alternative
>     materials, I'd love to see that too.
>     
> 					     Thanks!
> 					     
> 					     Doug Olney
> 					     Santa Rosa, CA
> 					     (Parent of 6 mo Rachel,
> 						       24 mo Laura)
> 					     
A recent article in a New Zealand parenting magazine that I subscribe
to covers this quite well.  Apparently sand or grass surfaces are as
bad as asphalt if a child falls from a height (e.g. from the top of a
slide).  The best surface seems to be bark chips, as they absorb impact
very well, and are cheap.  I doubt that they would attract feline
attention either...   also, depending on the age and inclination of
the children, playing with the bark chips can keep them occupied safely
too.  Many of the playgrounds in my area use bark chips and I can
vouch for them.  You need a good depth, say about 150cm.  Another
common surface used is padded plastic mats, made from recycled
plastic, that have an open grid pattern.  They are laid down so that
grass grows through the grid squares.  These are apparently best for
high wear areas.
From: vrs0@bunny.gte.com (V. Stern)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Baby Cries in Carseat
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:32:40 GMT
Organization: GTEL

I jsut have to say how glad I am (for selfish reasons explained below) to 
see that other people have kids who hate to ride in the car.  When Matthew 
was very little, he screamed and cried whenever we went in the car.  (He's 
much better now, thank goodness, but it took a while.)  Many people, 
especially my husband's relatives, made me feel totally inadequate as a 
new parent about this (and other things) by saying things like, "Really? 
He *hates* the car?  I've never heard of such a thing.  All of *my* 
children loved to ride in the car.  They always fell asleep."  This was 
usually said in a tone of voice that implied that I must be doing 
something that I wasn't telling them to cause him to hate the car.

I finally put the rear-facing seat in the front passenger seat (I know 
that middle back is safest), because he seemed to think he had been 
abandoned if I left him facing the rear seat.  This seemed to help alot, 
although I did get into a fairly bad rear end collision when he spit up 
one time and I took my eyes off the road to look at him - one of the 
drawbacks, I know :( .

Vanessa R. Stern
vrs0@bunny.gte.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mgaudrea@afit.af.mil (Michele L.D. Gaudreault)
Subject: Re: "Missing out" (was. re:  Justin...)
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:48:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.155306.28967@nas.nasa.gov> choi@wk59.nas.nasa.gov (Diana Choi) writes:
>(Catharine Robshaw) writes:
>>choi@wk59.nas.nasa.gov (Diana Choi) writes:
>>: (Diane Lin) writes:
>>: 
>>: Yep me too, notes ...but now I wish we had videotaped the whole thing
>>: because right now, (7 months later) I would just LOVE to watch it.  
>>: (And before I always thought videoptaping a birth was weird).
>>
>>
>>I also wish I had videotaped the whole thing.  Is there anyone out
>>there who has?  I have yet to meet anyone who has done this.
>>
>
>
>Yep ...my brother did.  Funny thing is his wife is really a pretty modest
>person.  Yet if you ask, they'll gladly show you the video. 
>
We did, too.  And I'm really glad I did.  I'm fairly modest (I think),
but I love showing the video, especially since it was a home birth.  My
mom had a hard time looking at the pictures of the birth (her little
girl in so much pain!), but enjoyed the video.  I guess being able to
see I was okay between contractions helped.

The weird thing about watching the video (for me) is that it's from the
wrong angle!  It's not the perspective I remember.  One of the neat
things in labor was looking up at my 3 year olds face.  I can't see her on the
video (except in the post birth part).

Michele
From: ssmith@xocolatl.com (Shannon Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Getting tired of alt.dads-rights,alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.w
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 09:57:12 PDT
Reply-To: ssmith@xocolatl.com
Distribution: world
Organization: Amethyst Systems, Fremont, CA

lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom) writes:

-> Ok, all you news gurus. Does anyone know how to auto kill anything with
-> any of the following stings in the newsgroup field:
->                      ^^^^^^
-> alt.dads-rights,alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.women

I cannot believe that that was merely a typo..... :-)

---
Shannon Smith                     ssmith@xocolatl.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: stoesser@i31s22.ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: God's Family Values
Date: 26 Aug 1992 12:39:47 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: i31s22.ira.uka.de

In article <714704878snx@whizbang.wariat.org>, mark@whizbang.wariat.org (Mark W. Schumann) writes:
|> 
|> In article <2A8FBE70.3782@intercon.com> ooblick@intercon.com writes:
|> 
|> ! In article <aidler.714030781@sanjuan>, aidler@sanjuan.UVic.CA (E Alan Idler) 
|> ! writes:
|> ! > It would be negligent for us as parents to not
|> ! > teach our children the truth to they may 
|> ! > choose happiness throughout their lives.
|> ! 
|> ! Here we go again.  Prejudicial, judgmental, and calling non-xtian parents 
|> ! negligent.  And yet some still wonder what non-xtians find offensive in this 
|> ! type of stuff.
|> 
|> Read carefully.
|> 
|> "It would be negligent *FOR*US* to not teach our children..."
|> 
|> I don't see anything wrong with Idler saying this.

Okay, I only pretend to know English, but doesn't "for us as parents"
imply "for all parents"?

								   Achim
________________________________________________________________________

I'm an anarchist, atheist, pacifist, and vegetarian.  Several thousand
years ago our ancestors thought that despotic chieftains, thunder gods,
tribal feuds, and cannibalism were good ideas.  Any similarity with
living persons is merely coincidental.

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: YKYAPW
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 02:21:27 GMT

You know your a mother when you polish your nails for the first time in
25 years because your 2 year old daughter is the type of little girl who
loves frilly things and, as you expected, ADORES having her finger nails
painted.  And your 4 year old son insists that you paint yours.

Actually, I almost posted this to the gender differences thread.  But my
step-mother picked up on something really important with my daughter.  I
am a tomboy and tend to think Erin looks really cute in blue jeans and her
brother's hand-me-down T-shirts.  But Erin seems to really like frilly things.
My step-mother sends her these dresses that I would never have bought that
Erin loves and looks wonderful in.

So lately I've been focusing on Erin as her own person and making space for
her in our family so that her personality has room to grow.  And in stepping
back (I really recommend this to all parents for all children) I saw that
this was not ME as a little girl.  Erin is much more like my best friend
growing up who always had necklaces and curls in her hair and wore tutus and
wanted to play princess.  And who's mother painted her nails too.

So Sunday morning I curled her hair and painted her nails and put her in a
very cute not-TOO-frilly dress I'd bought her and she beamed.  I bought her
some little heart beaded necklaces which she wears around (only thing on her
body) all day.  Etc., etc.  

So I think just as those tough macho dudes need to allow their young sons to 
wear bows in their hair if that is what their sons want to do, we macho moms 
need to let our daughters do the same.  I recommend that in all this effort to
gender-neutral our kids, we don't repress our very feminine, frill loving,
little girls.    


-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
From: kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Baby's Last Name
Date: 29 Aug 92 23:26:21 GMT
Organization: Manlius Pebble Hill School; Dewitt, NY

Okay, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about (it's happened before) and
what I'm about to propose is naively simple an bureaucratically impossible
(one never knows), but I'll give it a shot.

How about you give the baby *your* last name, and then when such time comes
that the two of you decide to get married, he can adopt the kid and change
the name then?

Like I said, I may be totally off base, but I figured it was worth a try.

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Keith E Gatling                                  kgatling@mailbox.syr.edu *
*          Opinions?  I've got plenty of them.  Just ask my wife!           *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lisa@icase.icase.edu (Lisa A. Leutenegger)
Subject: Birth Announcement
Organization: ICASE/NASA Langley
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:14:53 GMT


I'm happy to announce the birth of Alexander Ivan Leutenegger on
August 14th at 12:05pm.  He was 8 lbs and 14 oz - 21" long.

The labor story is short - just 8 1/2 hours - no medication - no
eletronic monitoring - no episiotomy (a small tear  only 1 stitch) 
- we were only at the hospital 2 hours before he was born.

We are now preparing for our move to virginia next week.  So in 3-4
weeks I will be back in touch with the internet.

---lisa leutenegger
   lisa@icase.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: m13079@mwunix (Mary Anne Walters)
Subject: Re: prenatal testing...
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:46:28 GMT


I've had early ultrasounds by a radiologist (full bladder required -- not
only that but *they* determine when you are full enough.  I had to sit in
the dressing room forcing glasses of water till I thought I'd bust!) and 
early ones by a perinatologist.  The perinatologist said maybe radiologists
need to have you with a full bladder, but he certainly didn't.  The difference
as I saw it was that we (my hubby and I) could see a lot better in the
full bladder sono and had to have a lot more pointed out to us in the not-so-
full bladder one.  In late (after 4 months) sonos, the full bladder doesn't
seem as often demanded by the tester.      

I was told the reason for the full bladder was that sonos were echos off
solid matter, and they passed thru water.  The empty bladder is more
"solid" and therefore offers a conflicting image to deal with.  The full
(of water) bladder serves to push the uterus up into a better position (in
early pregnancy) while allowing the echos to pass thru the water and give a
clearer picture.  In later pregnancy, the uterus pushes the bladder out
of the way and the fullness is not required for a clear picture.

Of course what do I know?  This is just the explaination *I* got.

I am still waiting for my echocardiogram, although the sono gave us a real
clear picture of the heart.  I plan to post what that is all about when
I've had the test.  In the mean time, if anyone else has had one, I'd be
interested in hearing what it is like -- I don't even know if it is done
with a different machine or if it is just another sonogram that focuses
on different things.  The last one I saw, on Alexander after he was born,
was color enhanced and pretty sono-like in some senses but very, very
focused on the heart only (and therfore a bigger picture).  Anyway, any
info would be appreciated.

 
--
--Mary Anne  
"What we have once enjoyed and deeply loved we can never lose, for all
that we love deeply becomes a part of us."  Helen Keller
                                                 [for Alexander]
From: mueller@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Nancy Mueller)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Rear-facing carseats
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:18:51 GMT
Reply-To: mueller@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Nancy Mueller)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In misc.kids, lauraf@spike.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom) writes:
>
>This of course is a common worry of people: not to be able to see if your child
>is in distress in the back seat of the car. It is kind of scary, but to put it
>in perspective, you are stil closer to your child, then if s/he was in another
>room of your house taking a nap...

However, you are not nearly as mobile as the driver of a car as you
are when you are when you are home.

>
>If you have the baby in the front seat, you might find yourself paying too much
>attention to the child, and not enough to the road, which, of course, can be
>very dangerous.
>
>Laura Floom

When I bought my graco toddler/infant car seat last fall, the instructions
explicitly stated that if there was only one adult in the car, i.e.,
the driver, the car seat should be placed in the front seat (if there
are two adults in the car, one adult should sit in the back seat of
the car with the child).  Apparently, they have found it is much safer
for the child to be in front of the car, where an adult has easy access
to the child (therefore, peace of mind), and can concentrate more
effectively on driving.

It worked for me.

Nancy
From: bl@pacersoft.com (Bill)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Late night bottles
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:17:53 GMT
Organization: Pacer Software, Inc.

My son (22 months) is in between using bottles and cups, but at night he has 
a bottle (of milk) before going to bed.  Usually half an hour or so.  We are 
aware of the possible ramifications to his teeth, but he will NOT drink 
anything else at bedtime (our fault I guess) and its the same thing when he
wakes up in the middle of the night.  He doesn't always wake up during the
night, but when he does, he wants milk and only milk.

Any suggestions of breaking him of this habit/security blanket?

Bill (father to Chase 22 months)
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 14 month old who always wants to be held
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:23:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

In article <17b694INN413@smaug.West.Sun.COM> zoe@cypress.West.Sun.COM (Zoe Friedlander) writes:
>I'd like to have the benefit of net experience on this:
>
>My 14 month old son wants to be picked up and held what seems to
>me to be a disproportionate amount of the time.  I am very affectionate
>with him and maybe I held him too much when he was younger (?) and now
>I've made him into an addict?  I love to hold him but when I'm
>making breakfast or cleaning up after dinner, I really can't hold him
>at the same time; ...

Maybe he doesn't want to be held as much as he wants to be part of the action.
Have you tried moving his highchair into the kitchen while you do these things
so he can watch?  


-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
From: bowen@prg.ox.ac.uk (Jonathan Bowen)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Things children say
Date: 26 Aug 92 09:59:38 GMT
Reply-To: Jonathan.Bowen@prg.oxford.ac.uk (Jonathan Bowen)
Organization: Programming Research Group, Oxford University, UK
Originator: bowen@topaz.comlab

Our two daughters (Alice, 6 and Emma, 4) seem to have come up with all
sorts of sayings that have made us laugh (and think!) recently.  Here
are a few I managed to record for posterity:

Emma, at a themed mediaeval weekend at a local Farm Museum:
"At that time I was still in my mum's tum!" 15 Aug

Emma: "When you're bigger you like boring things." 19 Aug

Alice to Emma at bedtime after being promised a five minute story
if they go to bed: "I've got it, we can stay up; I can read you a
five minute story!" 19 Aug

Emma: "I like dancing, especially dancing, but I don't know how to
dance." 21 Aug

Alice talking about a paper I have to write: "What have you got to
write about?"
Daddy: "Computers."
Alice: "Just put `Computers eat electrons. The End.'" 26 Aug

-- 

--
Jonathan Bowen, <Jonathan.Bowen@comlab.ox.ac.uk>
Oxford University Computing Laboratory.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: van@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (valerie.thompson)
Subject: Re: Help with words to _Puff the Magic Dragon_
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:43:00 GMT


Could anyone with all the words please post them?
My 4 year old loves that song, and I only know a few lines.  Thanks.
From: anita@devvax.mincom.oz.au (Anita Graham)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Baby Cries in Carseat
Date: 2 Sep 92 02:35:39 GMT
Organization: Mincom

In article <1684E6B4C.CREECH@LSTC2VM.stortek.com>, CREECH@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Teresa Creech) writes:
> I have a friend with a 6 week old baby boy.  She called in tears last night.
> Seems that Charles HATES to ride in the car in his carseat.  He cried all the
> way home from the hospital ( 1 1/2 hours) when he was discharged.  He has
> cried during almost every car ride he has taken since then (including a trip
> from Kentucky to Flordia :^( ).
>  
David hated the car and the capsule until...we started putting children's
tapes into the cassette player. Then (and now) he will just sit listening
to the tapes forever. Now that he's two he knows the words and music off by
heart - and so do we.

On long trips I found it REALLY helped if I sat in the back and talked and
played with him.

BTW, the tapes trick doesn't work for everyone - but David does respond
very strongly to music.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anita Graham
anita@mincom.oz.au
Newsgroups: misc.kids