HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: skinner@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Gregg Skinner)
Subject: Re: A question
Reply-To: g-skinner@uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:50:36 GMT

mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:

>In article <BtLJq8.Gvt@news.cso.uiuc.edu> g-skinner@uiuc.edu writes:
>>lemoine@chemvx.tamu.edu (Brett G. Lemoine) writes:
>>
>>>Homosexuals are not allowed to marry the persons of thier choice.
>>
>>Why is this a problem?  Who cares whether the government affirms one's
>>marriage?  I don't.

>However comforting it might be that you don't care about
>the legal status of a marriage, tax collectors, health insurance
>providers, and the Social Security Administration provide
>off-the-top-of-the-head examples of people who do care
>about the legal status of a marriage, and whose interest
>in the matter has non-trivial practical consequences.

Isn't this the problem, then?  Rather than expand the legalities of
marriage and divorce to another group of citizens, I advocate dropping
state-sanctioned marriage altogether.
-- 
Gregg Skinner    g-skinner@uiuc.edu         I speak for no organization.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: lemoine@chemvx.tamu.edu (Brett G. Lemoine)
Subject: Re: Contents of the 'Death Sea Scrolls': claim by Australian scientist
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University - Chemistry Dept. Programmer
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:28:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.083509.323@doc.bmd.trw.com>, jbrown@doc.bmd.trw.com writes...
}In article <92238.165251A410JACQ@HASARA11.BITNET>, A410JACQ@HASARA11.BITNET (Jacqueline Cote) writes:
}> A few weeks ago there was an article in a local newspaper that an Australian
}> scientist (I forgot her name), who had studied (part of) the Scrolls claims
}> that they state that Jesus *did not* die after his crucifiction, was revived
}> with mirre and some other substance, and continued to live for another
}> 30 years, travelling around and telling people about his visions. He married
}> Mary Magdelen and had three children with her, two sons and a daughter.
}> After the birth of his second son, he apparently left her to marry a Greek
}> female bishop (?????).
}>  
}> Does anyone else have heard this story? If it *would* be true, it would
}> have spectacular implications and it would also shed light why little
}> to nothing is known to the world about the contents of the Scrolls.....
}>  
}> The story reminded me of another story I once read *years* ago, about
}> one of the 'secrets' of the Vatican. That story claimed that there was
}> evidence (in some convent in France) that indeed Mary and Jesus were a
}> couple (after his 'death') travelling around and visiting places.
}>  
}> Comments, anyone?
}>  
}> Jacqueline
}>  
}> P.S.: just for the record: I'm an astrophysicist an (of course) an atheist.
}> ________________________________________________________________________________
}> Jacqueline Cote'     | Astronomical Inst., Un. of Amsterdam, The Netherlands
}>                      | and: SRON Space Research, Groningen, The Netherlands
}> jcote@sron.rug.nl    | phone: +31 (0)50 634014  +31 (0)50 418433 (home)
}> a410jacq@vm1.sara.nl | FAX: +31 (0)50 634033
} 
}If you are gullible enough to believe that story, I have a question for you.
}Would you be interested in buying some beach-front property in Arizona?
}(There's lots of "beach" down there you know.)  Or how about the Brooklin
}Bridge?  Or closer to home perhaps, the Eiffel Tower?
}Regards,
}Jim B.

Why are you so quick to dismiss the possibility? It seems a bit more plausible
than the biblical account of the matter. I'm not going to believe it based
just on the evidence of heresay, but I have no reason to dismiss it either.

}-IvArch->--------------------------Brett G. Lemoine-------------------->
}-Texas A&M University--------------Chemistry Department Programmer----->
}-Internet: lemoine@chemvx.tamu.edu-Bitnet: lemoine@tamchem------------->
}------"A person without a god is like a fish without a skateboard."---->
Organization: Sophomore, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 1992 00:53:31 -0400 
From: Stephen Alan Sisson <ssac+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: who?

Who's Andre Marrou?
What is the Libertarian party?
Am I invited?

TELL MEEEEEEEEEE!		
		
						Teevie for Prez.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.discrimination,rec.scouting,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Aug29.145536.3961@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
	<1992Aug31.133826.28229@newstand.syr.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 03:56:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.133826.28229@newstand.syr.edu> cwebster@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Chris Webster) writes:

> Sorry, Stan, but when a 15 year old is forced out of a troop, told that
> he's "unfit" and "immoral" simply because he has a particular sexual
> preference _IS_ gay-bashing.

> Imagine being fifteen and telling your scoutmaster you like girls and then
> have all the sh*t done to you that the BSA does to gay teens.  You'd feel
> pretty bashed.

 
Yes!  This was so to-the-point that I just had to repost it.

		THINK ABOUT IT!

--
Andrew Werling   awerling@nmsu.edu   yip@acca.nmsu.edu
"now we find sodom strange take it out put it in your mouth how do you like
gomorrah now a taste of this swallow that feel the fish hide the hat ezekial
where's your wheel you better grease it GREASE GREASE GREASE GREASE! ROCK!!!"
       --Chainsaw Kittens, "Ezekial Walks Through Sodom and Gomorrah"
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: jay@oclc.org (Young Jeff)
Subject: Re: Contents of the 'Death Sea Scrolls': claim by Australian scientist
Organization: OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 02:59:45 GMT

A410JACQ@HASARA11.BITNET (Jacqueline Cote) writes:
: A few weeks ago there was an article in a local newspaper that an Australian
: scientist (I forgot her name), who had studied (part of) the Scrolls claims
: that they state that Jesus *did not* die after his crucifiction, was revived
: with mirre and some other substance, and continued to live for another
: 30 years, travelling around and telling people about his visions. He married
: Mary Magdelen and had three children with her, two sons and a daughter.
: After the birth of his second son, he apparently left her to marry a Greek
: female bishop (?????).
:  
: Does anyone else have heard this story? If it *would* be true, it would
: have spectacular implications and it would also shed light why little
: to nothing is known to the world about the contents of the Scrolls.....

Oh wow!  When I saw this, I got a shiver down my spine.  Check out
"The Last Temptation of Christ".  Talk about prophesy!

:  
: The story reminded me of another story I once read *years* ago, about
: one of the 'secrets' of the Vatican. That story claimed that there was
: evidence (in some convent in France) that indeed Mary and Jesus were a
: couple (after his 'death') travelling around and visiting places.
:  
: Comments, anyone?
:  
: Jacqueline
:  
: P.S.: just for the record: I'm an astrophysicist an (of course) an atheist.
: ________________________________________________________________________________
: Jacqueline Cote'     | Astronomical Inst., Un. of Amsterdam, The Netherlands
:                      | and: SRON Space Research, Groningen, The Netherlands
: jcote@sron.rug.nl    | phone: +31 (0)50 634014  +31 (0)50 418433 (home)
: a410jacq@vm1.sara.nl | FAX: +31 (0)50 634033
-- 
Jeff Young

Opinions expressed are mine alone.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: csfed@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Frank E. Doss)
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:07:28 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <1992Aug31.133413.202585@uctvax.uct.ac.za> fllant01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>======================================================================
>Extract from 'Seal of God' by F.C.Payne (1974):
>
>BIBLE NUMERICS - FIRST ASPECT
>
>The New Testament begins with the genealogy of Christ back to
>Abraham. It is interesting to note that this genealogy itself is
>divided into three sets of 14: Abraham to David (14), David to
>Babylon (14), Babylon to Christ (14). See Matt. 1:17. It has two
>natural sectiond, verses 1-11 and 12-17. I am but giving some
>examples from the section 1 to 11, the latter section contains
>similar phenomena which need not be enumerated. The following now is
>from the Greek, in whick the N.T. is written. The actual numerics are
>by Dr. Panin.


Wasn't Jesus supposed to be the son of god?  If so, why are you commenting
on the genealogy?

Did you accurately count the generations from Babylon to Jesus?  I counted
13 generations.  Bad luck number!

Were the original texts written in Greek?

Did you take into account that atheists do not believe that there is a
god, and therefore would look upon any "proof" that a god wrote anything
would be looked upon as tripe?

Did you read the FAQ?


Std disclaimers apply.

-- 
Frank E. Doss                            Academic Computing
csfed@ux1.cts.eiu.edu                    Eastern Illinois University
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: russ@math.okstate.edu (Horatio "Random" Hellpop)
Subject: Re: A question
Organization: Aggie? What precisely is an Aggie?
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:28:53 GMT

In <1992Aug26.081451.18837@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

>In article <1992Aug24.204716.15720@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> mayne@cs.fsu.edu writes:

>>I doubt that, though it is true that in the past the christian church
>>endorsed slavery (with a very case built on the Bible),

>	In fairness, there were churches on _both_ sides of the issue.


No no no no no.  Everyone knows that all us Christians think precisely alike
on all issues.

:)

-- 
Russ "Random" Smith
+----===Comedy!  Sudden, violent comedy!===-----------russ@okstate.edu--------+
|  Godfather of the Random Gang; Diplomat of the Brotherhood of Evil MUDders  |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician)
Subject: Re: Undecidability and the FAQ
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 10:37:40 GMT
Organization: Society for the Preservation of E. coli

In article <TORKEL.92Aug30113641@bast.sics.se> torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:
>In article <8fgnmj#@lynx.unm.edu> bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician) writes:
>   >You're calling Steven R. Lay, Ph.D., of the Department of Mathematics
>   >at Aurora University a "casual reference"?  You're calling Dr. Keith
>   >Devlin (Ph.D. from Bristol University) as a "casual reference"?

>  Well, no, I didn't even use the term "casual reference". I said that you
>have been misled by casual formulations. But perhaps you have only misled
>yourself?

No, I know you used the phrase, "casual formulations."  I'm going for
something deeper.  I asking if you consider these two people stating,
directly, that the Continuum Hypothesis is undecidable to be making
"casual formulations."  Thus, these people would be "casual
references."  Did they give Godel's and Cohen's proofs?  No (though
Dr. Lay does sketch the proof that c = 2^aleph-null).  But they both
state, directly, that the Continuum Hypothesis is undecidable.

>  Your remaining comments, which I have scrutinized carefully, have
>no apparent relevance to anything in particular. The simple question at issue
>is this, Is it provable in ZFC that the continuum hypothesis is undecidable
>in ZFC? The simple answer is, No. Assuming, of course, the consistency of ZFC.

Question:  Are the following statements true:

Under ZF, the size of c cannot be proven to be anything but aleph-one.

Under ZF, the size of c cannot be proven to be aleph-one.

I hope you answer in the affirmative because that's what Godel and
Cohen did.

Therefore, if you take the two together, do you not come to the
conclusion that the question of what the size of c is is an
undecidable statement?

I'd like to know why you maintain that the Continuum Hypothesis isn't
known to be undecidable.  Are you claiming that Godel and/or Cohen
used principles outside of ZF?

-- 
Brian Evans                |     "Bad mood, bad mood...Sure I'm in a bad mood!
bevans@carina.unm.edu      |      I haven't had sex...*EVER!*" -- Virgin Mary
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.origins
From: robd@cherry09 (Robert Derrick)
Subject: Re: I visited the ICR in person (4 of 4)
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: 1 Sep 92 10:47:38 CDT

Dan Yergeau (yergeau@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: In article <37445@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, slinke@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Steven Linke) writes:
: 
..
: |> Branches of the Evolutionary Tree
: |> ---------------------------------
: |> Evil Practices:
: |>   Abortion
: |>   Promiscuity
: |>   Pornography
: |>   Genocide
: |>   Euthanasia
: |>   Infanticide
: |>   Chauvinism
: |>   Bestiality
: |>   Homosexuality
: |>   Drug Culture
: |>   Child Abuse
: |>   Slavery
: 
: Hmmmm, are they asserting that the practices listed above
: did not occur before Darwin?  Then, they are going to have 
: to rewrite the Bible.  Maybe that is part of their "True 
: History."
..
: Any ICRer's out there want to try to explain why/how these
: practices are to be blamed on evolutionists.  They seem to be
: well documented (and, at times, even encouraged) in the Bible.

No, they (ICRer's) are highly unlikely to try to explain, because
although it is easy to expound such things to a rabble of believers,
such words are merely profane in the antiseptic light of logic.

But,

There is a clue in Linke's post, which has it's root's in a belief
published (if not actually invented) by the ICR.  Now, I do not
remember what book it was, but I am sure it was either Gish or
one of the Morris' boys that wrote it.

You see, Darwin did not invent, discover, or otherwise create
Evolution.  Evolution was a plot devised by Nimrod and Satan
himself back in the good ol'days.  Therefore, it has been around
for all the time necessary to account for all of the "Evil Practices"
of the OT.  QED.

Believe it, or Don't!

[from Linke's post:
 Evolutionary Pantheism
 ----------------------
 "Evolutionism--that is, the denial of a transcendent personal God
 as Creator of all things--can be traced back to ancient Sumeria,
 which probably means to Nimrod...]

On the other hand, it is my personal belief that Gish and the
Morris' are all nimrods.  There is also another creationist,
Norman Geisler, that believes that UFO's are "Satanic manifestations
for the purposes of deception." [from the witness stand in the
Arkansas Equal Time trial]  The reason, he said, that he knew they
real existed, was because of an article in that most revered of
scientific journals, Reader's Digest.

 I am not making any of this up.

rob derrick
From: 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re New atheist newsgroup - .moderated
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:33:19 GMT
Organization: University of South Australia

The moderater (he said he was...) is Tony Lezard, 
tony@mantis.co.uk  I don't know if that address is complete or what,
but try it anyway.

-- 
John McVey, Whyalla campus, Uni S.Australia
Enic Eng Student & Terror Tekkie G1 (at 19!)
9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au, or try
9051467f@wh.whyalla.unisa.edu.au

Those who believe in an afterlife will not be disappointed.
				--me.
'An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.'
   				--Don Marquis
From: bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:52:13 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Aug31.133413.202585@uctvax.uct.ac.za> fllant01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>If anyone is interested, I'll post more from the book. If anyone has
>a more comprehensive book on the subject ('Seal of God' has only 4
>chapters on it), I please mail/post title details.
>

  Well then it's obvious that 'Seal of God' is from the devil, else
  there'd be seven chapters.  QED.


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 

Bob Beauchaine bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM 

"If I have to resurrect you, I'll resurrect you, whether you like it
or not!"
	 Paul to Jesus, _The_Last_Temptation_of_Christ_

"For dying is not to be feared--it is the final comfort.  As we all
learn, eventually."

  --Robert Heinlein
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: I was wondering
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:47:41 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1992Aug27.140825.5745@pellns.alleg.edu> frisinv@alleg.edu writes:
>In article <92239.221620EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu> <EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu>  
>writes:
>>Did any one (from any Judeo-Christian background) ever really look at
>>their prayers while reading them?
>
>   I really don't think those prayers are meant for the ears of a god so  
>much as to review the theology of the religion.

A few months ago I happened to attend a service which was being
recorded by the BBC.  It went quite well (I think), but after it was
over, there came a man who asked the congregation to stay a little
longer and sing the first psalm again, because something had gone
wrong with the radio's hardware and they hadn't managed to tape it.
It looked as though all those people were serving the BBC, rather than
God; and I thought that, if there were a God, he would have a good
reason to be sorely displeased with the way in which he was used.

-- 
 `If ye hiv ears oan yer heid - then use them tae lissen.' (The Glasgow Gospel)
Ivan A Derzhanski   (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk;  iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,sci.skeptic
From: titmas@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Eric Titmas)
Subject: Re: Bush interview as quoted in Alt.Atheism FAQ
Originator: root@mogate.sps.mot.com
Organization: SPS
Distribution: world,local
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 22:58:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.004028.12597@colorado.edu>, bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug19.201550.15888@newsgate.sps.mot.com> titmas@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Eric Titmas) writes:
|> >My religion says that paying taxes is a sin.  Does the First Amendment protect
|> >me?
|> 
|> To address the serious point you skirted, paying taxes is a (quasi-)
|> reasonable burden shared by all citizens equally.  Telling an Amerindian
|> he can't take peyote (even when his legally recognized church agrees to
|> restrict peyote consumption to 'bona fide' members of the congregation),
|> but the Catholic church should feel free to provide alcohol to anyone
|> who walks in the door appears a violation of the Freedom of Religion
|> clause of the First Amendment and the Equal Protection clause of the
|> Fourteenth.

I'm not being disingenuous I really do not understand the distinction being made.  Restrictions
on drug usage are a (non) reasonable burden shared by all citizens equally.  And is your point
about "legally recognized church" somehow meant to say that the government can distinguish
sincere from insincere religious belief?

|> >Mr. Giles earlier claimed that the Supreme Court's decision in the peyote case
|> >somehow resulted from a mis-statement made by George Bush in 1988 while cam-
|> >paigning for President.  How did a mis-statement in extemporaneous remarks
|> >cause this ruling?
|> 
|> I made no such statement.
|> 
|> One observer asked why anyone should care that President Bush _stated_
|> (he did not retract his statements later so it was _not_ a misstatement)
|> that he didn't consider atheists citizens.
|> 
|> I offered several examples of non-Christian rights being trampled, the
|> Amerindian peyote case one of them.

It looks to be the same statement.  Otherwise why should we care about Pres. Bush's
mis-statement (mis-statement here defined as a false assertion that atheists aren't 
citizens)?
-- 
Eric Titmas      Motorola ASIC       titmas@chdasic.sps.mot.com               

It is impossible to take in more money than Congress can spend.  - Thomas Sowell
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Reductionism, etc (was LIFE GOES ON)
Date: 28 Aug 92 12:06:47 GMT
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
NNTP-Posting-Host: de5.ctd.ornl.gov

In article <1992Aug27.222733.29803@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, pmy@vivaldi.acc.virginia.edu (Pete Yadlowsky) writes:
>
>I see no rationality in it whatever. How can one agree, on the one
>hand, that our powers of perception are limited, and, on the other,
>that they are nevertheless capable of acquiring perfect knowledge?

One doesn't need perfect perception to acquire reliable information.  And
perception plays no part in the mental process of applying logic to
abstractions.  E.g., I don't need perfect perception to believe with absolute
certaintly that I'm composing an article to be posted to USENET shortly.  I
don't perfect perception to believe with absolute certaintly that 1 + 1 = 2. 
Is that conceit?  I think not.

That said, I still agree with:

>How could one ever know that such acquisition had in fact been
>finally achieved? The only rational approach I see is to forge ahead
>(in all directions) with an open mind, with an emphasis on
>exploration, unfettered by delusions of Final Resolution. 

So atheists have faith in their perceptions/beliefs, just like theists.  The
difference lies in the strength of the link between their perceptions and the
beliefs derived from them.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)	   For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
Workstation Support                Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
From: jhb@maths.su.oz.au (John Brownie)
Subject: Re: Take Your God And ....
Keywords: God
Organization: School of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Sydney
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:41:24 GMT

In <1992Aug31.182853.18246@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> spc@pineal.sci.fau.edu (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) writes:

>[1]	The Roman parthenon is based upon the Greek parthenon, which is what every-
>	body thinks of when anyone mentions a parthenon.  But the Greek parthenon
>	was itself based upon older parthenons of the Babalonians, Asrians, etc ...
>	By the way, a parthenon (for those of you not in the know) is a group of
>	12 gods.

Sorry.  I can't resist.  A parthenon is a temple in Athens on the
Acropolis.  I can't remember which god it's associated with, but there
is probably something to do with virgins (parthenos = virgin in
Greek).

The word you're looking for is pantheon (pan = all, theos = god).
--
John Brownie
School of Mathematics and Statistics   |    Wycliffe Bible Translators
University of Sydney NSW 2006          |    Graham Rd
Internet: jhb@maths.su.oz.au           |    Kangaroo Ground Vic 3097 AUSTRALIA
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.misc
From: Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au (Tim O'Neill)
Subject: Re: A Critique of Barbara Thiering's 'Jesus the man'
Organization: University of Tasmania (Australia)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 02:10:21 GMT

Just in case anyone else is having trouble getting my
address it's:-
Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au

Tim O'Neill
Tasmanian Devil
Newsgroups: alt.atheism