HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johny@cogs.sussex.ac.uk (Lord Yak Da Hairy)
Subject: Time Machine (was Re: Who's out there?)
To: rec.games.pinball
Posted-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 13: 02:26 GMT
Organization: EAT MORE SPLEEN!
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 13:02:26 GMT
Received-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 07: 04:37 CST
Via: uk.ac.sussex.syma; Sat, 21 Nov 1992 13: 04:26 +0000

In article <1992Nov20.113511.12169@bsu-ucs> 00tdspence@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>And that clicking noise during multiball.

That's genuine chimes, that is. I could only hear them faintly over all the
solenoids, as our machine was badly adjusted. Presumably yours was too.

But I agree with you on it being one of DE's best games... and not even
a licensed theme! :)

-- John Yeates (Lord Yak Da Hairy) --------------- johny@cogs.susx.ac.uk --
-- "Be a geezer - put grasshoppers in your freezer!" - The Mystery Chefs --
From: v051r9bf@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (When will Mergle EVER shut up?)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Funhouse question from a while back....
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:15:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

A coupla weeks back I posted a question about a glitch in the FUNHOUSE machine
I was playing, and no one responded.  So I'll try one more time.

I was playing a FUNHOUSE set up for extra balls only.  (Replay = EB, no 
match, special =EB.)  At no time in particular, the machine made a funny
diagnostic check type noise, did a 'stuck-ball-check', and awarded me
2 credits for no reason, and didn't interrupt my game.   The display said
'check switch 47' or something, and 'awarded 2 credits' to that effect.

Any idea what happened?  I didn't tilt the machine, nor was I exceeding
a high score or anything.  It just happened.  

- - - - - - - CLIP AND SAVE (IF YOU HAVE 8-BIT-NO-PARITY SCISSORS) - - - - - -
>Assume Dan Quayle was the head of R+D for Crayola.          +-----------------+
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------------------------------------------------------------ | that Mergle is. |
>Suppose your toaster was God.                               +-----------------+
 Do you think it would be satisfied with just ANY waffle???  +-----------------+
------------------------------------------------------------ | If ifs and buts |
>What if Potsie Weber were a stud?                           | were candy  and |
 Do you think the Fonz would've been jealous?                | nuts,  we'd all |
------------------------------------------------------------ | have  a   great |
>Say all the electrical power in the world was terminated.   |    Christmas    |
 What would Don King's hair look like in a week?             +-----------------+
 _______________________  _________________________________  ________________
 \  Mergle              \ \  V051R9BF@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu \ \ University at \  
  \  46942 Interstate 90 \ \  priester@acsu.buffalo.edu     \ \ Buffalo, N.Y. \
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(tm) Mergle Appendages, Unlimited.  |  'We take .sig files to new [low] depths.'
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: blake@ncrsna.stpaul.ncr.com (Tony C Blake)
Subject: Gotlieb  Triple Play
Keywords: Triple Play
Organization: NCR NPG StPaul MN
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:48:59 GMT

I spent this past Saturday morning at an auction of coin operated devices
here in St Paul.  There were a ton of juke boxes and video games, but only
five pins!  I was disapointed.  

Anyway, one of the pins was a gotlieb Triple Play.  It had a baseball theme
centered around the Chicago Cubs.  Being an ex chicagoan, and a die hard
Cubs fan, (no flames please :)  ), I took a liking to the game.  I was
wondering if Gotleib produced this machine with other baseball teams
used instead of the Cubbies?  Does anybody know?  It seems to me you
could produce a machine that had a generic sports theme, and then customize
it to particuliar teams as need be.  Has this ever been done?

As you can tell, the auction held little interest to me and I had a lot of 
time to sit and ponder these idle thoughts while waiting for the pins to 
come on the block.  The Triple Play, (B rating) sold for $750.00!  They
also auctioned a zenon, (B-), for $900.00 and a Captain Fantastic for
$650.  I left after that.  The other two machines were Sterns, and were not 
worth bidding on.  


===================================================================

Tony Blake                      NCR Corporation
blake@ncrsna.stpaul.ncr.com     Network Products Division
(612) 638-7259  voice           2700 Snelling Avenue North
(612) 638-8173  fax             St Paul, MN  55113-1784

===================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: bobsar@ecs.comm.mot.com (Bob Sarocka)
Subject: manga-save problem
Organization: base_stations
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:20:59 GMT

The magna-save above the right outlane on my Black Knight does not
work.  The playfield light reacts to pressing the red magna-save
button, so the problem doesn't lie there.

Any suggestions?  Thanks in advance.
-- 
Bob Sarocka
Lombard, IL
bobsar@sarek.stc.comm.mot.com,
From: iott@rtsg.mot.com (Joel K. Iott)
Subject: Re: New games
Organization: Motorola Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:44:45 GMT

Just adding my $.02...

In article <1ec6s1INNt43@transfer.stratus.com> overturf@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Dallas Overturf) writes:
>
>Creature is a crammed and Jammed playfield while WW is 
>pretty open and basically a mutlitball/ramp game With
>a terrific waterfall display.  I won't get into game details
>as we did not really take the time to figure them out.
>
>Suffice it to say that neither of these games seemed like anything
>special; though they did not seem really bad either (at least
>not with normal flippers)
>

I played both Creature from the Black Lagoon and White Water enough to get a
good feel for both.  I enjoyed CFTBL quite a bit, it has a "nostalgic" feel to
it, as the theme is a monster movie at a drive-in in the 50's.  CFTBL is a more
"traditional" game than White Water in the sense that you have to work quite a
bit to get it into multiball.  Then once you get it into multiball, you have a
jackpot, super jackpot, and multiball multiplier ramp to shoot for - but it all
disappears if you leave multiball.   There's a couple other objectives besides
getting multiball - but they're not the main objective.

I didn't enjoy WW as much.  It seems like the objective is mostly to get the
ball to the upper mini playfield, shoot waterfall to light whirpool, shoot
whirlpool to get whirlpool award, repeat.  It's relatively easy to get into
multiball, in contrast with CFTBL.

The waterfall display is similar to what you might see on old beer signs (e.g. 
Olympia).  I looked at it, but didn't see any moving parts, just flashing
lights.  Maybe the lights have polarizing filters, activating different parts
of the waterfall display??? 

>DW on the other hand is IMHO another excellent game by WMS/BLY
>and I enjoyed it thoroughly at EXPO. It's main flaw as shipped is
>that it is not being shipped with the flippers that it was designed
>for and the mini playfield may be a problem (mechanically) at times from
>what I've seen and heard.  Though all I played at expo were fine.

I not too thrilled with Doctor Who either (Dallas and I have different tastes,
obviously). I can't put my finger on just one thing, but it just doesn't
interest me in repeat play like Fish Tales or The Getaway.

--
Joel Iott
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us (Louis Koziarz)
Subject: Re: Pinball Expo
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 03:43:32 GMT

Good review, Brad.  A few of my own observations:

The seminars were pretty good, although scheduling them on Friday wasn't
the best idea.  I liked the Saturday sessions better.  Pat Lawlor did a fun 
session where the crowd helped design a machine from scratch.  Nobody liked
my idea of a 'Chicago Disasters' theme (yes, that was me).  I thought a great
pin would have the player flood the tunnels, black out the Loop, lock the
Michigan Avenue bridge in the up position, then set the place on fire for
MultiBall.  Guess you have to live here to understand.  I digress...

The expo area was much better than last year.  Bigger too.  All of the usual
exhibitors were there, but not as many older machines like last year.  I
enjoyed the old Gottlieb exhibit, and wished someone else had done the same
with another manufacturer.  Maybe next year...  Premier's exhibit was the
Flip-Out area with 'Cue Ball Wizard', WMS/Bally Midway had Fish Tales and
Dr. Who to play, with one Getaway thrown in for some reason.  The record-
breaking Addams Family pin was there as well, this was the one that broke
the old production record set by ??? at Bally (8-ball?).  WMS gold plated the
rails and put it behind some velvet ropes.  Disappointingly WMS/Bally was
not showing their newest machines, Whitewater and Creature from the Black
Lagoon, which I guess is still in the testing phase.  Data East did have
Star Wars up and running, which isn't really out yet.  Software looked good,
play was alright, a little too much plastic on the field for my tastes.
An R2D2, half of the Death Star, plus other gadgets moving around, plus 
a cheap vacuformed Darth Vader sticking from the top. (Does EVERY pin have to
have a geegaw on top now?)

The auction on Saturday sucked compared to last year.  Not a great selection,
only a few newer SS pins, most were 1975-1986.  Prices were a little high,
then again this an enthusiast's auction plus competition from operators
looking to suck up everything.  There were some interesting artifacts to see,
though.


>	I picked up seven backglasses, a bunch of books, untold small plastic 
>giveaways from Williams Electronics, and a handful of hard-to-find parts I've
>been lacking for the last several months. And I'm still married - all in all,
>a highly successful trip.
>
>-- 
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> | Brad Martinson, XWindows janitor   SunSoft,Inc   brad.martinson@sun.com |
> |    Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc   #include <std/disclaimers.h>  |
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


-- 
Louis Koziarz
koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us
From: Stephen Jonke <jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Drop Targets (Was re: Cue Ball Wizard Rules sheet request)
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A736C36BEA015C5D@joe.gsfc.nasa.gov>
X-Xxdate: Mon, 23 Nov 92 22:20:43 GMT
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 22:20:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.074111.23541@nwnexus.WA.COM> Mark Phaedrus,
phaedrus@halcyon.com writes:
>     Much as I like drop targets, I disagree here.  For one thing, the fact
>that the bounce off a drop target is different than the bounce off a touch
>target isn't necessarily a feature.  When you shoot at a particular point on
>a touch target, you *know* how the ball is going to bounce off it; there's
>no variation caused by whether the targets are up or down or what shape the 
>bumper is in.  That makes a big difference; if I have the ball on the right
>flipper and only the right fish targets are lit, I can shoot with confidence
>at the left targets anyway, knowing that the ball will ricochet over to hit
>the right-hand bank as well.  I would never try that shot into a bank of drop
>targets, for fear that a weak rebound would drain the ball down the right
>outlane.  Fish Tales is a hard enough machine as it is; there's no point in
>making it harder.

[rest of article deleted]

This is a silly argument -- no one said they wanted Williams to recall all the
Fish Tails out there and blindly replace the round fish targets with drop
targets.  You have to design the use of drop targets into the game (just as
they designed the use of round targets into the game.)  With the difficultly
level of Fish Tails as it is, replacing those targets with drop targets would
be foolish, of course.  But there's no reason why they couldn't have
incorporated real drop targets into other areas of the game if they had given
it some thought (the drop in the casters club doesn't count as "real" to me
since they so deftly hide it's existence even going so far as to making it
completely black.)

As for the ball bouncing off differently dependent on the target being up or
down, I'm all for a little variety.  If you want games that react exactly one
way to anything you do, then maybe you should try modern pattern based video
games where no thought is required whatsoever, just automatic reflexes built
up through repetition.  Keep in mind that you KNOW that if the target is down
it will bounce differently, so it's not like it's completely random -- there
is some randomness, but that's what makes pinball so much better then video
games.  It's different every time.  A well designed game keeps the randomness
under control enough to keep it from getting frustrating, but includes enough
to add variety.

Drop targets do require more maintenance, but then so do Ferrari's.  You can't
give me a Toyota Tercel in replacement and say "it's more reliable" and expect
me to be happy!!!

Steve
------------------------
jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov
------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: patenaude@nhtima.enet.dec.com (Roger Patenaude)
Subject: Re: Stern "PINBALL"
Keywords: stern repair
Reply-To: patenaude@nhtima.enet.dec.com (Roger Patenaude)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:45:05 GMT



Your not gonna like this answer... :^(

It sounds like you got the wrong game roms... I don't have a Stern rom part
number list but I have had the exect same problem. It seems someone had 
swapped MPUs between two machine, I knew who bought the other machine and was
able to trade. Your prints (if you have them) may show what the rom part 
numbers should be (I doubt it though). 

1) check with another same game. "Pinball" was released in 8/77 (I don't see
   one on the PAPS) or...

2) call two bit score in tx. and ask if they have copies of the roms, who much
   and what the correct numbers are.

    Two Bit Scores
    Robert Sokol
    11600 Manchaca Road, Suite 305
    Austin, Texas 78748
    512-282-9369
 

Then verify against your roms in the U2-U6 sockets.


--
__

    |\/\/\/|                        Roger Patenaude
    |      |                        Pinball Pathologist
    |      |                        "Specializing in Autopsies  
    | (.)(.)                         of Dead Pinball Machines"
    C      _)      /------------\  
    |  ,___|    ---| Don't Have |    make sure all replies go to;
    |    /         | A Cow Man! |       "patenaude@nhtima.enet.dec.com"
    /---\          \____________/ 
 
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: datepper@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Aaron Tepper)
Subject: Re: QBW: Que Ball Wizard question
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:30:14 GMT

From princeton!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!think.com!ames!pacbell.com!sgsimon Thu Nov 19 13:01:03 EST 1992
Article: 7740 of rec.games.pinball
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sgsimon@srv.PacBell.COM (Steve Simon)
Subject: QBW: Que Ball Wizard question
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:35:29 GMT

In an earlier article Steve Simon wrote:

The QBW I play has 2 full size pool balls in it, a cue ball and
an 8 ball.  In this machine the 8 ball is on the main playfield,
and the cue ball is in the little upper area.  Is this standard?

It seems like these may be reversed, although the upper ball is
the one "hit" by the tacky looking pool cue, so maybe it makes
sense.

	Ummmm, Steve, be honest. Have you _ever_ played pool before?

	The whole point of the pinball machine is that for scratch shot,
eight ball, and nine-ball, you're supposed to aim for the cue ball and
get it to hit those round green targets raised above the playfield. This
is what triggers the eight ball to shoot when appropriate. A scratch
shot means you haven't hit anything. During 8-ball mode, hitting the cue
ball targets at the appropriate time "sinks" the 8-ball and gives you a
new rack. And during multiball, you have to aim the 8-ball as well at
the red, blue, and yellow targets.
	
	Hope this clears things up.

Tep

-- 
I'm too sexy for meiosis.
From: overturf@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Dallas Overturf)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Stern "PINBALL"
Keywords: stern repair
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:51:31 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbootay.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Nov17.214505.10937@e2big.mko.dec.com> patenaude@nhtima.enet.dec.com (Roger Patenaude) writes:
>
>
>Your not gonna like this answer... :^(
>
>It sounds like you got the wrong game roms... I don't have a Stern rom part
>number list but I have had the exect same problem. It seems someone had 
>swapped MPUs between two machine, I knew who bought the other machine and was
>able to trade. Your prints (if you have them) may show what the rom part 
>numbers should be (I doubt it though). 
>

The correct numbers are "Rom P1" in U2 and "Rom P2" in U6 if memory serves!
Stern Stingray also uses the same identical Rom just a different
playfield.

			Regards,	Dallas...
From: josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Score Inflation (was Re: Cue Ball Wizard Rules sheet request)
Date: 21 Nov 92 22:53:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: mowgli.josh.722386403
Organization: University of Washington

I left the references on, although I've changed the name of the
post to more accurately reflect the subject matter, I hope. Which
is, score inflation on Cue Ball Wizard, what with half-billion
point shots and the like.

In fact, I now have the second high score on my local machine,
at an inch from two billion (argh! actually came up about 20K short),
done WITHOUT the halfbillion shot. Had a couple shots at it but missed
them both. The point is, that shot is entirely within the framework
of the rest of the scoring on the machine, as proven by the fact that
I could get two billion without hitting it.

[How, you ask? On the strength of a truly astounding pool ball mania
during double mode, mostly....a very zen-like experience....I achieved
a state of "no-mind"]

What I DO object to - and it's not on CBW - is some scoring gimmick
that is absurdly out of line with the remainder of the game. The BOP
billion point shot is a good case in point, although I only played
the game once. I think high scores are probably in the low hundreds
of millions on this game - right? Or wrong? - and it seems crazy to
have a single shot that's worth several times the high score. Hmmm.
Maybe they should make a "high score" shot, that is worth EXACTLY
what the current high score is? Start with some machine pre-defined
value? Whaddaya think?

Josh

--
Josh Hayes, Quantitative Sciences HR-20 U of Washington
josh@mowgli.cqs.washington.edu             206 543-5004
        The future is fun! The future is fair!
   We may already have one! We may already BE there!
From: kens@css.itd.umich.edu (Ken Small)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Cue Ball Wizard Rules sheet request
Date: 17 Nov 1992 20:22:11 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

In article <BxvKBM.Myu@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keefer) writes:
>kens@css.itd.umich.edu (Ken Small) writes:
>> 
>> Point inflation has gotten waaaaaay out of hand.  I still remember thinking
>> -- 
>> Ken Small
>> kens@umich.edu
>> Consulting and Support Services, University of Michigan
>
>Well, we should all try to think every once in a while, huh?  :)
>
>Seriously, I think we missed a little of your message there...  But you're

The second (and last) line of my message should have read:
"that the "Million!" shot in Comet was too much."


 No idea where it went...

-- 
Ken Small
kens@umich.edu
Consulting and Support Services, University of Michigan
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: lfs@mitre.org (Lyman F. Sheats Jr.)
Subject: Re: Cue Ball Wizard Rules sheet request
Organization: The Mitre Corp., Bedford, MA.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 04:25:46 GMT

kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keefer) writes:

>Seriously, I think we missed a little of your message there...  But you're
>right; point inflation is just rediculous.  A million should be a LOT of 
>points...  The MILLION shot should be a major score...  Remember the good
>ol' days, when in Earthshaker and Whirlwind you'd have that annoying lady
>yell "OOooh, MILLion?"  And in Dr. Dude, the chorus of guys yelling "MILL-yun!"
>Well, you can't have that today, because you can get a million just by having
>the ball accidently fall into the graveyard.  And things like "OOooh, FIVE 
>million!" sound kinda stupid.

Oh, so you're saying that things like "50 million!" sound kinda stupid?
I'm not trying to be harsh here, I'm just trying to make a point.  Anyone
who's ever played Addams and toured the mansion may disagree with you.
Same thing with the 3/6/9 million mansion awards.  I thought they were
done fairly well and with an appropriate amount of enthusiasm.

I mentioned this before, and I know just about everyone disagrees with
me, but I really believe points are all relative and you should take them
in stride.  Whether you make a million point shot on a game like Whirlwind
or a billion point shot on a game like Cue Ball Wizard, the points really
shouldn't matter -- it's the excitement of making the shot and scoring the
points associated with the shot that's supposed to be fun.

I don't see why everyone seems to be all bent out of shape and all hyper
about point inflation.  Who cares?  I hear all the time: "I really enjoy
playing game X, but it's really point inflated."  How do a few extra digits
in a score make a game more or less fun?  I guess I just don't understand.

--
Lyman F. Sheats Jr.
The MITRE Corporation
202 Burlington Road, Bedford MA 01730
email: lfs@mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: Inflated scores
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 08:33:00 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <LFS.92Nov19232546@arcadia.mitre.org> lfs@mitre.org (Lyman F. Sheats Jr.) writes:
>>Well, you can't have that today, because you can get a million just by having
>>the ball accidently fall into the graveyard.  And things like "OOooh, FIVE 
>>million!" sound kinda stupid.
>I mentioned this before, and I know just about everyone disagrees with
>me, but I really believe points are all relative and you should take them
>in stride.  Whether you make a million point shot on a game like Whirlwind
>or a billion point shot on a game like Cue Ball Wizard, the points really
>shouldn't matter -- it's the excitement of making the shot and scoring the
>points associated with the shot that's supposed to be fun.

The problem is more point inbalance rather than point inflation.
It doesn't matter to me if my top score on TAF is 571,000,000, 571,000
or even 5170.
Oh, it impresses the mass audience (read: the ones who stick in far more
quarters than all of us combined) to have big huge million point score
totals, so that is why they are there.
The problem is point imbalance- billion point shots merely for the sake of
having a billion point shot- that sort of thing. Take, for example, a
Dr. Who. You can bounce a ball around for 5 minutes and still have a score
of under a million. Start multi-ball, however, and you can have a score up
in the hundreds of millions in a very short period of time. That is imbalanced
scoring.
Now take a good game, like TAF- well balanced scoring all around. When you
score the big 50 million for touring the mansion, you've >earned< those 50
million. 
Actually, IMHO, TAF is one of the most balanced games, scoring wise, that I've
ever played.

Just some random observations.
r.