HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Tourney wrap up...
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:57:20 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <67329@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccastks@prism.gatech.EDU (Kevin Stallard, esq.) writes:

>If anyone wants to play in a linear tech, 2 update/day, quick test game,
>send mail to ccastks@prism.gatech.edu with:

Linear tech?  You'll never get any testing done.  The game will be over
in a week.

-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
From: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Land Units
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:08:04 GMT
Organization: The Dorsai Grey Captains

In article <Bu1x49.1x2@world.std.com> kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar) writes:

[New class of units may make the game too complex]

Thank you, David; I was afraid that I was the only person who feels this way.

While I think all the new programming efforts (especially Tom's) have been 
a boon to the game, I think it may be starting to go overboard with this wave
of enthusiasm over land units, with each proposal more complex than the last.
 
Here's something to think about, for all you old-timers out there: do you 
remember the days of 0.9.28 empire?  Compare that to the KSU and Merc and 
Chainsaw code we have today.  If you think about it, you will probably (at 
least I do) realize that while your enjoyment of the game hasn't changed, 
the complexity and time required to play well has increased signifigantly.
Has it been worth it?

-- 
Matthew DeLuca                      "I'd hire the Dorsai, if I knew their 
Georgia Institute of Technology      P.O. box."
Office of Information Technology                - Zebediah Carter, 
Internet: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu              _The Number of the Beast_
From: hendric@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Richard Hendricks)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: new player?
Date: 3 Sep 1992 18:42:04 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Summary: is there any beginner games?
Keywords: Is there any games set up for new users


I was just cruisin' the system when I say this newsgroup.
Now I just happen to have a copy of a game called Amiga Empire,
and by reading some of the messages, it looks pretty similar.
I was wondering if someone could give me some info, perhaps some docs,
and maybe a few open games to try out.  Game on!

	thanks
-richard hendricks
hendric@matt.ksu.edu
From: jasonp@cunix4.Prime.COM (Jason R. Pascucci)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Strategy
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:35:25 GMT
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.


Hi,

I'm interested in hearing if there is a generally accepted
strategy, especially where begin-game is concerned,
even to the point of 'what to do at the first update'.

I was thinking that the first update, you should move
a fairly small number (say 20-30?) of mils or citizens and food 
to each adjacent sector, and then use the rest of your mobility for
exploring, (a' la the utility in xemp). Then, the next 
update, use the mobility of the other sectors to expand 
your exploration area. 

I haven't quite figured out which things to do next,
but it seems to me that it should be in the order of
Agriculture, Iron, Light materials, Gold,
Schools, and others...How long should this take? 
etc..

Where do you start caring about happiness? Etc...

If there is already some strategy documentation
out there, I'd like to be pointed at it. I realize that
people won't give their most precious strategy secrets
away, but perhaps a few pointers might be helpful...

Thanks!
-- 
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer)
Subject: Re: proposed update alternative
Organization: the Elves of Briton
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:12:35 GMT

fein@acsu.buffalo.edu (L. Fein) writes:
>
>Hey! That's a DAMN good idea! Time zones.. Hmm.. I like that..

thanks. I'm glad someone did.
there's been so much talk of "update" ideas that my orignal post that
started all of this seems to have been forgotten! :*(

*--*
the Elf



Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: kpearce@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (BULLDAWG)
Subject: Send mail problem?  Any direct (telnet only, no client) users?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:37:39 GMT

Does anyone know if the "send mail" routine between the server and the
client uses some special protocol?  

I have looked at the client1.1 on empire.bbn.com and I have yet to 
figure that out....

I am trying to write a routine that allows one to send mail from the PC 
Client to the internet server. I have noticed that the server acts as if
it is getting an extra character in addition to the CR.  So when one types
"." to finish the message, the server thinks it got "something" plus the "."
so it doesn't think you are finished with the message.   I have noticed the 
exact same behaviour when one logs directly via telnet into the server.

If you ahve played empire successfully via telnet (sans client) please e-mail
me as well as you probally have some useful info as well...

If you have some experience interfacing with the "send mail" stuff e-mail
me and I will try to describe in more detail.

Ken
LSF

P.S.  For those who got the PC Client beta version, a few bugs have been 
killed since.  One can now use the dial menu as advertised.  The scroll
function is now operational (scroll back over 10 pages of text for each buffer).
I have almost got it to the point where it will place the call to the server 
and make the connection automatically.  These corrections are available.  A
new version with ve-like graphics will be available soon as soon as some of the
more nasty bugs are squashed.
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Subject: Re: Another considered change
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 23:51:01 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:
> talk to the people that put together the UB game.
> they found historical precedent to the effect that WWI bombing
> actually did more damage to morale (work %) then it did to
> the area itself (eff %). they took this to heart and added it in.

Makes sense.  

> comment: the lottery is dumb. but I liked it! :*)

Yeah, can't argue with that.  The odds have been tinkered
in the more recent release.   We were getting too good at
stacking the odds..:-) 

>thought: how about having bombings going into the negatives
>          via a "ruin" sector type, ie you bomb the sector into ruins
>          and then they have to build *up* from a ruins.

Interesting...since damage is done as a %, it'll be hard to
work it in...but I like it.


> flames: your land units are way, way more complex then they should be.

You mean the tanks?  Anything in particular you find akward/complex?
How do you like the spies?  (they are in there, right?)

Walter Smith
smithw@cs.itc.hp.com
UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: hjpoell@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl (Henk Poell)
Subject: Re: proposed update alternative
Organization: NIKHEFK
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:06:31 GMT

(I'm not going to repost the reference article...)

Maybe the update scedule of today isn't THAT good, but it really is
hard to improve it... For example:

If your plan is implemented, there can be 100+ updates/day. I know that
I would start logging in often to move ships (they can discover unocc
land, it's SO important to be the first), check if Vulgaria isn't under
attack (people can do a lot with 8 hours now) or using 11% 1mob planes
for a single flight... With one update a day, you can go to sleep
knowing that there isn't anything more to do. A nice feeling! There is
also a substantial programming effort needed (really!). But: if you're
going to do it, I'll play a game with the new code. Promise!

Another proposal submitted recently, was to let people have their own
update time(s). This is okay, but think about the code you need to
prevent abuse. I can think of ships getting updated by several countries
after being traded or boarded, to let floats move quicker. Or sectors
being updated by several (2) countries to let the civ's grow faster.
Still, after playing for some time in a game with a 4am update time,
I would love it when these things could be taken care of. Even if you
had to make your update times known at the beginning of the game.
cmd [1:2]  report *

Country       Tech      Research     Education    Status    Updates

USAland       similar   similar      similar      Active    17:30  19:00
Finland       advanced  backward     similar      Active    12:00  15:00
etc.


More comments please!

Henk Poell.
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: daniels@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel R. Sawyer)
Subject: I'm new, are there new/open games?
Summary: I'm never been in a game, but would like to
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:10:24 GMT
Keywords: new or open games wanted

I'm new at this Empire stuff, never having played before, and at the net.
However, I would like to play in a new game or a game with openings.

Can anyone help me here?  You can email me.
-- 
Daniel R. Sawyer
daniel-sawyer@uiuc.edu

--
From: ccastks@prism.gatech.EDU (Kevin Stallard, esq.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Euro III replacement
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:25:09 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Due to the overwhelming response, I no longer need a replacement for
Euro III. 

Maybe next time. :-)
From: ccastks@prism.gatech.EDU (Kevin Stallard, esq.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Test game is up
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:02:16 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

The test game is now up.  Those who have sent me countries and reps are
(should be) set up and ready to go.  There are 8 slots left open.
(countries test10-test18, reps are the same as the country name)

Host is 139.88.30.210
port is 1617

Enjoy,
   Lord Mac
From: evil@bbn.com (Dave Nye)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: NEED A NEW HOME FOR THE EMPIRE.BBN.COM EMPIRE ARCHIVE!!!
Keywords: BBN, ARCHIVE, FTP
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:09:04 GMT
Reply-To: evil@bbn.com (Dave Nye)
Organization: War Lord and Imperial Emperor of THE Evil Empire
NNTP-Posting-Host: archive.bbn.com

I have accepted a new position with another company.  This new company does
not have internet access beyond UUCP at the moment but will hopefully be
connected in a few months.  Until then I need to ask someone to take over
support for the archive.  It's accessed daily by lots of sites and I'd hate
to have this access disapear.  So if you've got ~30 meg or so of space that
you can spare and are allowed to set up a ANON FTP at your site let me know.
I will be leaving September 11th so we need to do this quickly.

-=TheEvilArchiver


-- 
===============================================================================
===   =========   =======================              David Lee Nye          =
===   =========   =======================       BBN-DSS Systems Administrator =
===         ===         ===         =====       evil@bbn.com, dnye@bbn.com    =
===   ===   ===   ===   ===   ===   =====            evil@gnu.ai.mit.edu      =
===   ===   ===   ===   ===   ===   =====       BBN, Inc., Cambridge, MA      =
===         ===         ===   ===   =Inc=  My employers computer, MY opinion. =
===============================================================================
From: CS19241653D@LUST2.LATROBE.EDU.AU (Matthew GILLARD)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Pc version of empire....
Date: 31 Aug 92 13:36:05 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.22

I got the PC version of Empire from an FTP site, and I only have a Hercules
graphics card, and to my disappointment, it didnt work on it.  Does anyone know
where, if anywhere a Hercules version exists?  I would be very grateful,

		Matthew....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Gillard,		E-Mail: cs19241653d@lust1.latrobe.edu.au
La Trobe University,
Victoria, AUSTRALIA.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rtaylor@honors.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Down games
Date: 2 Sep 92 23:22:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Sep2.232201.16029
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services

Well, the subject says it all:

Euro III is barfing at me (someone rebooted, maybe?)
The just-opened test game is refusing connections.

Not my day, is it?

**********************************************************
*  "Random shootings in sector -4,2 will continue until  *
*  worker moral improves."  -- Lord Blackthorn           *
**********************************************************
* rtaylor@honors.uoregon.edu  rtaylor@oregon.uoregon.edu *
**********************************************************
From: evil@bbn.com (Dave Nye)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: empire-list and blitz-list Need a new home!
Keywords: empire-list, blitz-list, evil, bbn
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:13:08 GMT
Reply-To: evil@bbn.com (Dave Nye)
Organization: War Lord and Imperial Emperor of THE Evil Empire
NNTP-Posting-Host: archive.bbn.com

As I stated in the previous posting I will be leaving BBN on September 11th.
I have been the moderator of blitz-list and empire-list for quite some time
and sadly need a new home and moderator for a few months atleast for these
lists.

empire-list has been fairly inactive for the last few months but blitz-list
is used quite alot to announce the various blitZ games.  If you are able
to create and maintain mailing bursters let me know ASAP.

-=TheEvilOne


-- 
===============================================================================
===   =========   =======================              David Lee Nye          =
===   =========   =======================       BBN-DSS Systems Administrator =
===         ===         ===         =====       evil@bbn.com, dnye@bbn.com    =
===   ===   ===   ===   ===   ===   =====            evil@gnu.ai.mit.edu      =
===   ===   ===   ===   ===   ===   =====       BBN, Inc., Cambridge, MA      =
===         ===         ===   ===   =Inc=  My employers computer, MY opinion. =
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: loney@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Patrick Loney)
Subject: Re: Euro III update (Week 4)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: euro, market
Organization: :The state of being organized
Date:  4 Sep 1992 08:28 EST  

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, I could go on and on about this but I don't have all day.
I will just say that one country out of 68 complaining about the time delayed
market is a great percentage.  I will make one chage to the market in Euro IV.
I will add a message to the "buy" command that says "Warning!  Self abuse of
this command is a sure way to mess up your country"

One other thing, any of the players in the game may feel free to post
what they feel was going to become the "inevitable outcome"


In article <1992Sep3.153500.28721@athena.mit.edu>, tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes) writes...
> 
>A few words regarding the country of Macedon in Euro III and
>opinions on market systems....
> 
>Co-run by Ultima and Redline, the leaders made their final
>determination that games with new, un-tested, possibly-buggy mods are
>not for them and rather than continue such a game and risk further
>frustration they decided to cash in their chips and bow out (leaving
>a little present for the new market system that caused them to make
>their final decision).  The leaders have little doubt as to the
>inevitable outcome of the game had it not been for the market bug and
>realize they were still the odds- on favorites to win, but chose not
>to make their mistake worse by continuing to play a 'buggy' game.
> 
>Just so the players not in the Euro III game know, the leaders'
>decision had nothing to do with the combined attack of the three
>other countries.  The damage was quite minimal and nearly all sectors
>would have been easily retaken had it not been for the market problem
>leaving them unable to retaliate.  Even after the three countries had
>finished their attacks and Macedon had yet to retrieve any of its
>sectors, the three countries could only manage to pull Macedon down
>to #2 on the power chart (still ahead of all of its agressors).
> 
>The time-delay market is a good idea, but it certainly isn't without
>some major flaws and loopholes.  For now, it seems that no market is
>still the best solution.  Perhaps the concept can be saved and later
>incorporated with another idea, but it doesn't seem like any idea
>can match the realism and unexploitability of the 'no market' option.
>Any ideas are, of course, most welcome....
> 
>-Andy (a.k.a. Ultima)
>
From: fein@acsu.buffalo.edu (L. Fein)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: proposed update alternative
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:25:21 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <182la2INN3pv@agate.berkeley.edu> mytelka@codon2 (Daniel Mytelka;612 Barker;x2-5110) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.200631.6389@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl> hjpoell@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl (Henk Poell) writes:
>>
>>Another proposal submitted recently, was to let people have their own
>>update time(s). This is okay, but think about the code you need to
>>prevent abuse. I can think of ships getting updated by several countries
>>after being traded or boarded, to let floats move quicker. Or sectors
>>being updated by several (2) countries to let the civ's grow faster.
>>Still, after playing for some time in a game with a 4am update time,
>>I would love it when these things could be taken care of. Even if you
>>had to make your update times known at the beginning of the game.
>>cmd [1:2]  report *
>>
>>Country       Tech      Research     Education    Status    Updates
>>
>>USAland       similar   similar      similar      Active    17:30  19:00
>>Finland       advanced  backward     similar      Active    12:00  15:00
>>etc.
>>
>>
>>More comments please!
>>
>>Henk Poell.
>
>This proposal will create the worst of both worlds, Henk. If you
>are fighting someone and worried about "around-the-update" attacks,
>you'll have to be logged on both for their updates and for your own.
>In other words, you're guaranteeing that everyone will have to be logged
>on for twice as many updates, some at very inconvenient times. The only
>way I can think of to solve this is to create time zones, where all the
>people who want updates at a particular time are put on a single
>continent. This will lead to boring segregated games for Europeans, though,
>where you will always initially be clustered together.
>

Hey! That's a DAMN good idea! Time zones.. Hmm.. I like that..
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer)
Subject: Re: Another considered change
Organization: the Elves of Briton
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:54:15 GMT

bill@cv.hp.com (Bill Frolik) writes:
>smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>: elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:
>: >thought: how about having bombings going into the negatives
>: >          via a "ruin" sector type, ie you bomb the sector into ruins
>: >          and then they have to build *up* from a ruins.
>: 
>: Interesting...since damage is done as a %, it'll be hard to
>: work it in...but I like it.
>
>This, too, is now in the HP version.  It's actually fairly trivial 
>to add, and should have an interesting effect on the way battles
>play out.  Sector type is '_' (flattened rubble?).  Sectors can't be
>designated as ruins -- ruins only result from damage.
>
>For our first cut implementation:
>Damage code flips designation if damage exceeds three times sector 
>efficiency, and ruin "efficiency" initially becomes (dam-eff)*2.  
>E.g., 10% damage to a 10% sector just reduces efficiency to 9%, 
>but 10% damage to a 3% sector flips it into a 14% ruin.  Continued 
>damage to the ruin increases its eff by an amount equal to the damage.
>Certain obvious sector types cannot become ruins (sea, wilderness,
>bridge spans, etc).  Ruins do not produce food, and dismantle at 1/4 
>the normal sector dismantle rate, although they use the normal 
>dismantling workforce.  All other aspects (mobility, etc) are same 
>as wilderness.

Ok, how about being able to "create" ruins?
In the carnage empire code there was a "raze" command wherby you could
raze a sector. It used the sectors mobility to determine damage.

if the sector was already a ruins then 
	eff = eff + mob
else {
	eff = eff - mob
	if eff < 0 then {eff = abs(eff); newdes= des; des = ruins;}
     }
mob = mob / 2
mob = mob - 2

added other things in like needed mil control, civ death, loyalty mods etc...

also, for the ruins sector type I had (used '@' easier to see then '_' which
might be confused with '-') I had the mobility cost be more then wilderness
(it being harder to move through) and changed the defence and offence to 1/1.

*--*
the Elf

ps. speaking of offence and defence, wouldn't it be great if there was a
  command that allowed you to see what the values were set at in any paticular
  game? ie a "show sector" and it gives you a chart telling equivalences?
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: tedrick@triangle.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Update Stuff & Land Units (100 mil per unit)
Date: 4 Sep 1992 01:55:40 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: triangle.berkeley.edu

<The UNIT database would get *HUGE*.  That alone makes
<replacing mil completely with units seem impractical.

Good point. I think a unit ought to represent 100 mil rather
than 10 (or something like that) to keep the UNIT file smaller.

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: nlc@vulcan.xtel.co.uk (Neil Cook)
Subject: Tech in Empire.
Organization: X-Tel Services Ltd.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 08:39:07 GMT

It is my humble opinion that Empire is far too heavily based on tech. Tech
should have more penalties associated with it, and there should be other 
variables in the game which are adversely affected by tech.

In other words, there should be say 4 or 5 variables including tech, which are
all interlinked, and which affect your economic and military capability. At
the moment, the only thing which directly affects how well ships, planes (and 
land units) perform is how much tech you had when you built them.

Thus, someone who nurtured their people into a fanatical fighting force with
good leadership and plenty of people willing to join up and die for their 
nation would stand a good chance against someone slightly more advanced in
tech, but with an angry mob at his/her door.

Also, the game seems to be too much based around 20th Century weapons of war.
There is this massive jump from the country having nothing but plain military,
to battleships and planes.
Most of the great battles before this century were not influenced by tech, 
because they usually had broadly similar tech, they were more influenced by
tactics and good leadership. It was HOW Alexander used his phalanxes that 
mattered, not just the fact that he had them.

I would like to see a far longer period of warfare with just ships and land 
units, with tech being fairly unimportant at the start of the game, but 
becoming far more important towards the end. 

This can be donbe fairly easily. At the start of the game there is a
small maximum on the amount of tech one can produce. This can be made fairly
easily by just about all the nations. As the game proceeds, the maximum amount
of tech you are allowed to produce becomes larger, and then differences 
in tech become apparent as the weaker nations struggle to keep up with this
target.

There should also be more penalties for large countries. The disadvantages of
large countries are smaller than a small thing with a particular reason to be
small today.

Also, if we have more variables representing the cultural state of the nation,
then the weapons you produce when you get tech could be influenced by them. 
Then, not everyone would get the same weapons, and wars would become more 
interesting. Alternatively, you could choose which areas of tech you wish
to invest in, and your weapons of war would be influenced accordingly.

Just some musings,

Neil Cook.