HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sieh@panix.com (Twinkie Chinkie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 22 Aug 92 19:02:40 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <77752@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>In article <SHAW.92Aug13001642@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu 
>(Andy Shaw) writes:
>>That's what a democracy is about.  One way to obtain that
>>power is to portray oneself as a victim, 
>
>Another way is to simply have the majority see you as a human being.

Indeed.  It looks like I've missed the beginning of this thread and maybe a
few others.  

For myself, I have a serious difficulty with the idea of portraying myself
as a victim.  With my background, I hardly can say with any honesty that I
have been seriously disadvantaged.  I also can not see how being a victim
will necessarily lead toward empowerment.

>>the the point where we
>>delude ourselves into believing that the majority will look after our
>>interests if only we trust them (Lui Sieh).

HELLO????!!!!!  I have never argued for this.  I have argued, no
railed against the politics of "Us vs. Them" that supposed "activists"
have advanced (ie. Judy Tseng and Hoyt Sze come to mind).  Furthermore,
I have implicitly argued that social equality will be result of *cooperation*
among *all* ethnic groups.  By pitting ethnic groups against each other or
even ethnic minority groups vs "Whites" is self-destructive to American
society.  It will lead to balkanization of society in which Asian Americans
will be reduced to fighting over a part of the "Minority Pie" as opposed to
the whole Pie.  This is not even close to equality.
>Why should I trust the average AA activist to look after my interests
>anymore than I do the majority?
>

Precisely.  I certainly don't.  I don't even like others speak for me.  I
can do that perfectly okay thank you very much.  If Asian American activists
are like Judy Tseng's, then I will do everything in my power to make sure
that their "voice" be muted or called into question for their inherent hate
message.  I will try to expose them for their true colors.  In the end, it
will hurt not only Asian America but all of America.

//Twinkie Chinkie


-- 
//Lui Sieh
Dum loquimur, fugerit invida Aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum postero.  
Horace, Odes, I.xi.7;	<-- "Why post to USENET?" -Brian O.  Indeed.
What about my opinions? ==>> /dev/null	or  sieh@Panix.COM
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:8065 alt.culture.us.asian-indian:510
From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: friendships....
Date: 16 Aug 92 17:20:50 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

===================================
 cass@netcom.com (Diana Tenery-Fisher) writes:
>
>I am a born and bred Californian. I have always felt a bit out of the
>norm because the people I went to school with were very concerned about
>things I considered superficial and silly.  The things *I* wanted to talk 
>about (literature, philosophy, religion, etc.) were not of any interest to
>most of the people I knew. Since being in college, I have met a more 
>racially diverse group of people and find that the sad truth is most
>Americans tend to be complacent, superficial people. (That isnt to say
>that people from other countries cant be complacent or superficial) 
>But in my experience my most memorable conversations have been with 
>Asian-Indian people. (I should say men, since I dont know any AI women)
>The men I tend to be attracted to are AI. I may just be lucky. I may
>be meeting people that arent 'the norm' of that culture either. But they
>are pretty incredible to me. They dont seem to be hung up on the things
>that Americans have beat into their heads every day as they grow up. 
>
>I am not pre-judiced against Americans, I keep an open mind about every
>human being. 
>

 Diana, you are just lucky. Just too lucky. :)

 My experience runs differently. I find that superficiality is the norm all
 over this planet. The incredible humans that I have met come from different
 backgrounds. Few of them are nth generation americans. The number of 
 incredible asian indians I have met are few, too few. I find as many 
 superficial americans as superficial asian indians and superficial anywhere
 else.

 IMO, the best way to discover a friend is in not expecting/needing
 to find one; just meeting every human being as one meets other facts
 of nature. And remembering that one's life-long best friend is oneself.

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lchsu@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Leon Hsu)
Subject: Taxonomy
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:17:15 GMT

OK ... I think it is time we all adopt some kind of standard for the
abreviations and terminology we use. I saw a post earlier today where 
someone was talking about AAMs, AAFs, AMs, and AFs. I'm sure you can
guess the topic of discussion. The point is, I wasn't completely sure 
if the poster was talking about AMs and AF as American (Fe)Males or
Asian (Fe)Males. One of my other problems is that everytime I see CF 
or CM I think Chinese (fe)male, then remember that the poster meant 
that to stand for Causasion (fe)male, even though (s)he really meant
"white" or descended-from-mostly-European-stock (fe)male.

First off ... no-one but DJ uses his stupid -cu/-ge notation as it is
quite ambiguous, so we can not really worry about it. What we should
do is establish a common set of abbreviations and terms and post them
in a FAQ-type monthly posting.

I'm not going to suggest any abreviations here, since I am a wimp and
don't want to get flamed.  :)  Well, OK. The real reason I don't want to
suggest any yet is that I haven't thought about good PC abbreviations 
to use and I'm too lazy to do it right now.

-leon.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@caen.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Why do minority groups whine?
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 17:57:12 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d5
X-Xxdate: Thu, 13 Aug 92 17:57:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.141257.10243@ee.gatech.edu> Peter Wung, wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
writes:
>
>Look at the '60s, african-americans have been mistreated for a long time,
>but white america ignored most of the signs of social unrest until
>the oppressed people said enough is enough.  White america stood up and
>took notice.  The situation has changed considerably, but the problem 
>is still there.  My question to you is, when will white america look
>at its problems BEFORE the problem erupts?  There are warning signs 
>everywhere, but only a very few are listening.  
>

Probaly when someone comes up with a solid way of demonstrating to all of
America that the problems of the minorities are really problems for us all.

After the Rodney King beating, alot of news agencies and shows started to 
show and srite of stories of police abuse not just towards minorities, but
towards the genral populace (yes, Whites included).  Alot of White America
probaly thought that they were just blowing things up because its that
"White vs. Black" thing.  But then once seeing these other accounts, then
they realized that the problem also affects them.  

How do you dot his for every problem?  I don't know, because I really do 
not know all the problems.  But you must feed on what motivates people in
order to get them to do/change something.  Example: Alot of White America 
is up in arms over Affirmative Action because they feel that it puts them 
at a  disadvantage.  Using this as a foothold, show how minorities are too
at a disadvantage and go from there (not a original idea, someone actually
used it on me).  Most Whites _ARE_ reasonable, whether they know it or not.
  
Michael F. Kamprath
kamprath@caen.engin.umich.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:8248 alt.culture.us.asian-indian:527
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: friendships....
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:00:01 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american

mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij) writes:

>ObACUA-I:  My parents and I have a continual argument over the meaning of
>friendship and its relationship with family.  They believe family is
>far more important than friends, and I agree with them in the sense that
>familial relationships tend to be much more stable.  Yet they go so far
>as to discourage spending time with friends because they see it as an
>intrusion upon spending time with family, as if it were a zero-sum game.

The stereotype of American life carried by many/most Indians is that kids
grow up to be kind of unattached to their parents/family. Thus, anytime you
spend "too much" time with friends, alarm bells may be ringing in their
heads. In India itself, grown up "kids" (actually sons) ie; post-high school
but not yet out of home, can roam around town with friends without parents
getting unduly bothered.

Just my guess.

Sumitro
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Subject: Re: Why do minority groups whine?
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
	<1992Aug12.002610.16584@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Aug12.045752.5170@midway.uchicago.edu>
	<SHAW.92Aug12032100@whopper.lcs.mit.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:16:12 GMT

   shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:

      sieh@quads.uchicago.edu (Twinkie Chinkie) writes:

      Let me interject here for a bit.  After a bit of irrational as well as
      irresponsible flamage/ranting and raving from a certain Judy Tseng, who
      spoke up?  I've stopped waiting for a particular netter to speak up.  I
      am not surprised.  

   If some Clueless White Boy [tm] wanders in and starts posting the usual
   Clueless White Boy Comments [tm], who speaks up?  Certainly not YOU.
   Certainly not anyone who is a white man.  Not yet, I haven't seen it.

   I'm not stupid enough to wait for you to speak up in such a situation,
   because you have demonstrated that you are willing to quietly accept such
   moronic sermonizing from self-important CWB's.  You may disagree with those
   CWB comments, or you may think that they are insignificant, but you never
   speak up.  Why not?  Explain that, and maybe you've got yourself an answer
   to your own question.

I think you're both getting a little obsessed with the idea of people
condoning something by not speaking out.  In case you haven't noticed,
the net is full of Very Stupid People.  It might be fun to give each
and every one of them a well-deserved toasting.  It might be socially
useful to give each and every one a polite, carefully-reasoned,
lengthy explanation of why they are somewhat confused.

But dammit, I don't have the time, and neither do most other people!
(If you *do* have the time, it's time to Get A Life [tm]).  

So I have to pick and choose.  Since I prefer arguing with people who
appear to have functioning brains and might even change their minds, I
ignore a lot of flamers and people who seem to be out to lunch.  It's
just a personal choice.

If someone says something about (say) media conspiracies or the
biological basis of race deep in a line-by-line rebuttal of the 17th
message about CM/AF, I'm not going to see it.  That doesn't mean that
I agree with what's written there.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: Racial Beating
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:19:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.134459.24076@natinst.com> fellow@natinst.com (Osbert Tan) writes:
>
>
>My question to the net is, how do you deal with this type of situation
>(i.e. racial slur), at the same time coming out of it with honor/dinity
>(you fill in the appropriate word(s)) intact and ALIVE ?
>
>-Osbert
>-- 
>                                     _ _
>---------------------------------ooo--U--ooo------------------------------------
>fellow@cs.utexas.edu  Standard disclaimer applies. My opinions are, simply mine.
>fellow@natinst.com            Down with racism. Down with imperialism.  

Racial Slur:  Ignore it.
Racist lynch mob:  Glock 19, full magazine, plus one in the chamber.

						--Alan Hu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: timothyc@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Timothy J. Callahan)
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Keywords: CWB
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 11:07:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.173548.6943@Cadence.COM> jyoung@Cadence.COM (John Young) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.183617.21725@inmet.camb.inmet.com> lrq@fanny (Robert Quan) writes:
>>
>>Why is it that a majority of the non-orientals (caucasians) that post here
>>all tend to have an optimistic view on racism.  
>>....
>>    Robert
>
>What does caucasion have to do with it.In these day's of "Civil Rights"the 
>"white" man is one of the biggest victims of racism!!!
>.....
>If you think about it the U.S.gives out grant's and scholarships to the:
>disabled
>minorities
>women
>etc.
>But you don't get a loan/grant/scholarship/low interst rate if you're a typical
>"white male"
> .......
>
>		Shut up & bring on your "but we're the oppressed"flames!!!
>



I'm a white male.  And I've gotten scholarships & fellowships.
And I know lots of other white males who have as well.  And I also
know lots of minorities/women/disabled who have received these awards.
And most of *them* are smarter than me.

By the way, most Asian Americans are not considered "minorities" for
most scholarships/fellowships since they are not "underrepresented"
in academics, and therefore they get no special consideration.
So AA males are just as oppressed in this respect as us poor 
white males!

-- Tim

Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:7951 alt.culture.us.asian-indian:502
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Subject: Re: caucasians
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
	<BsvLI8.8oJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:30:36 GMT

   shay@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (George Shay) writes:

   In Boston, *some* white teenagers from former Yugoslavia could understand
   that better when they shouted 'You yellow pigs go back where you are from,
   we came here first' to a vienamese family in accented, broken English.
   They meant whites came to this land first though we, Yugoslavia
   refugees did not, we should share the benifits because we are whites also.

In addition to needing some help with their manners, those people need
some help with their history.  As is often forgotten when discussing
the "discovery" of America, the Americas were populated when white
Europeans arrived.  In fact, since American Indians are generally
considered to be descended from people who crossed from Asia to
America, one might even argue that "Asians" were in the Americas
before "Europeans", and that those rude yahoos should go back where
they came from.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jlw@gestalt.austin.tx.us (James Waldrop)
Subject: Re: Accountability, or rather, JJ's lack of it.
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory, NM
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 04:34:07 GMT

russil@idacom.hp.com writes:
>I think you're missing Andy's point, though.  Anybody reading Andy's articles
>knows who wrote them.  If they wanted to, they could look up his phone number
>and home address.  Or they might remember his USENET articles while reading
>one of his papers, or while interviewing him for a job.  The same isn't true
>of jj@alice, because jj isn't his *real* name.

You ever think that someone might NOT WANT any random user to be able
to have that sort of information about him?  I mean it's all well and
good for Andy to do it, but should the rest of us follow suit as if
we were lemmings or something?

I'm all for Andy being completely free to plaster his dossier all over
Usenet if he wants to, but I think there should be an element of choice
involved.

Sulam
-- 
James Waldrop
jlw@hebrew.cc.columbia.edu

I walk along the path muttering about signs and portents.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Asian-American Guys Superior?
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:46:04 GMT

In article <4854@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:

>Interesting observations. I would say that many Asian men born overseas
>are much more confident in who and what they are in society; therefore,
>they have the gumption to ask an AAF out. I know that a lot of my troubles
>stem from the fact that I have little or no identity. As to why AAM would

While I can't say what your particular "problem" is (actually, it just sounds
like you're a bit shy), I wouldn't state that "Asian men born overseas are
much more confident..." in regards to the opposite sex. Japanese young men
are notoriously shy, and I assume that they have no identity problem of the
type you mention. I've heard several of my wife's friends claim that they had 
not been asked out on a "date" until they were about 23 years old.

There seems to be a lot of pressure on young men to forego dating, etc, until
you have a job, etc, over there. 

Mike

-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H  man vi ^@  ^L  ^[c  ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help  helpquit ^D  ^d 
man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: Accountability, or rather, Andy's lack of it.
Keywords: Just go punch him out, JJ.
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 03:58:51 GMT

In article <16p08fINNocr@agate.berkeley.edu> nbyram@ocf.berkeley.edu (Nicholas Byram) writes:
>But JJ, I think you should do more than just respond to his ceaseless 
>lying.  How far is the drive from Jersey to Boston? I personally think
>Andy Shaw should be held personally accountable for his lies--with a 
>good beating. A baseball bat or hammer to the forehead can do wonders 
>to clear up his thinking. It's also harder to tell lies when one's 
>nose and jaw are broken.
>Then again, by that standard, Noam Chomsky (Khmer Rouge apologist),
>also at MIT, should be taken out and beaten...
Hmm, Ever thought about seeing a psychologist about your
aggession?  As a start I can recommend Primal Screaming
as a therapy, or find yourself a punching bag (make sure its
a water filled typed say around 60 lbs, more if neccessary).
If those dont work, shock therapy have been known to have
some effect, as a last resort a frontal labotomy should cure you
completely.
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Why do minority groups whine?
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 03:45:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.021954.4194@bnr.ca> thao@bnr.ca (Anthony Murtagh) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.010803.20829@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>...
>>By the way, Laly is a lady.  So, Mr. Pak's last sentence should read
>>"She always comes off reasonable to me."
>>
>
>dwight, what made you think i was female??? :-)  i'm as male as any
>other male.  don't worry though, you're not the first to think i'm
>female.  ;-)
>
>good guess, jim.  what gave it away?  :-)
>
>laly thao  "a co-op and a male at that"

Wait a sec.

Mr. Thao, I recall that there was a Vietnamese-American lady who
worked at BNR.  She posted about 6 months ago, complaining of
boredom and disinterest in her job.  To use her words, she
was "tired of fighting the switches"; she apparently was testing
digital switches at the time.

I had suggested that she come to California to work as a 
spokesmodel for Nissan.

I'm sure that Mr. Pak has her post backed up somewhere.  Perhaps,
he could refresh our memories.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lchsu@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Leon Hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Taxonomy
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:47:59 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <23464@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy) writes:
>Do we really have to create even MORE labels?

I don't understand how you can be so afraid of labels and 
talk about Asian-Americans or African-Americans or "white boys".
You use labels all the time. When you talk about any group of
people and give them a name, you are labeling them. It happens.
There is no other reasonable way to have an intelligent discussion
about them. You have to be careful though, because if you are using
one name for one group and someone else is using the same name for
a different group, then your whole argument is moot.

>
>Now, I will agree that having some abbreviations for who we
>all are and are talking about is quite sensible, but I'm a bit
>concerned about how far such labels creep into our thinking.

Yes, that's another reason why I think we should choose some sort
of agreed upon set of terms to use. 

>
>Me?  Just call me COWB.  (that's Clueless Old White Boy)
>or, y'know, how about  :-) COWBOY (that's Clueless Old White Boy
>Orating and Yelling)

I think I'll just call you clueless. That's a nice euphamism.


-leon.
From: judyy@ocf.berkeley.edu (Judy Y. Tseng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Asian Pacific Islander Men Calendar (was, Re: Surviving in a White
Date: 15 Aug 1992 01:31:45 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tempest.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug12.150550.10596@inmet.camb.inmet.com> lrq@fanny 
(Robert Quan) writes:
>
>    Point 3:  Why do white men think that they are superior in looks and 
>              physique to oriental males.  It is all media developed 
>              stereotypes.
>
>    Last point, what steps should be taken to correct all these falsified and
>negative stereotypes.


Here's one step in the right direction. A Filipino American man, Victor
*something* (can't remember his last name) created the Asian Pacific Islander
men calendar 2 years ago to show men of AP ancestry in a different light.
They sell for about $13 in stores around California. If anyone wants one,
I will be glad to send you one (not f/free, of course. I'm a poor college
student!).


Judy Tseng
judyy@ocf.berkeley.edu

"Hey, I'm getting a real life. Imagine dat!"

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american