HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:10:57 EDT
From: <SXS30@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: What is Action 9201?
 <1992Sep26.221817.1@ducvax.aub
 <1992Sep27.150521.633@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

In article <1992Sep27.150521.633@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) says:
>
>The discrimination against foreigners in China is institutionalized, and in
>my opinion, much worse than the discrimination against foreigners in the
>U.S., though I admit the latter does exist.

 This is completely exaggerate! Did you see any foreigner's invest been
 burned without any protection?
>
>In China there's a different price scale for foreigners, and foreigners must
>go where they are directed to go. For example, they must stay in the most

  The reason that there are different system exist is caused by different
  economic system. Most Chinese live in a life of low wage and low consumption.
  The goverment take away most of the money that one can earn to invest in
  public facility, such as park, hospital,rail road..,etc. Hence there has
  to be some kind of price to allow people to access to these facility. If
  you work in China as an ordinary Chinese, you will be able to know this.

>expensive hotels. Many taxi drivers will not accept Renminbi from foreigners
>even if they have a "white card" (I know that in some cities *no one*  can
>pay taxidrivers with Renminbi, but in other cities, like Beijing, it's only

   There are some agency that you can complain about these taxi driver, they
   rip everybody off, not just foreigners.

>foreigners.) Many foreigers who have intimate relationships with PRC citizens
>are threatened or harassed. Most foreigners must live in segregated
>dormitories if they live on a college campus. Chinese entering these
>dormitories must sign in, so that contact with foreigners can be kept track
>of and discouraged.
>
   Hi, I guess they (CG) should change the policy about this. Let people
   select where there want to live as long as they can bear the noice of
   undergraduate dorm and sacriface the privacy and nice bath room. -)


>It may seem to you like foreigners live a luxurious life in China, but life
>in a golden cage is still life in a cage. Discrimination against Africans
>in China is a whole nother story which I will not go into here. (I was only
>addressing discrimination against Westerners above: the Africans come in
>for special treatment in China, because they are generally regarded in
>China as coming from especially backward and inferior cultures.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: ping@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Shiping Zhang)
Subject: Re: > my prediction about the bill
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:26:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.171558.11001@news.iastate.edu> txa95@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>
>I really do not think the above argument desersves my response, but as another
>netter is kind and patient enough to, at least, say something to you, I just
>copy his words.
>
>In <1992Sep29.041050.12248@news.iastate.edu> zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo) writes:
>
>>In article <9209290048.AA11745@phloem.uoregon.edu> Tuya@ccmail.uoregon.edu writes:
>>>          ( PSU mail deleted )
>>>
>>>          ...  I frankly thought you and 9201
>>>          folks had decided to stop activities and concentrate
>>>          on growing up instead.
>>>
>
>>I think the above must be written by a GROWING baby or an idiot.
>
>>TAKE an option that I pleasantly provide here, Tuya.


  Well, the one "patient enough to say something" said 23 words, while
  the one "not thinking it worthwhile to respond" said 32 words, let alone
  the fact that he/she DID respond, in contradict to his/her words. :-)

-ping
From: engp2030@nusunix1.nus.sg (WU HU)
Subject: Looking for Ma Xuewu
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 01:35:58 GMT

Ma Xuewu graduated from Tianjin University. He went 
N Ill U in 1989.

Wu Hu
engp2030@nusvm.bitnet   or
engp2030@nusunix1.nus.sg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 02:46:28 GMT

In article <81136@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:

>I don't support CCP, but I'm not too enthusiatic about overthrowing
>it.  The reason is that I've looked at 20th century Chinese history.
>When people overthrew the Qing, they got the KMT.  When people
>overthrew the KMT, they got the CCP.  Based on this, I strongly
>suspect that if one just overthrows the CCP, one will plunge China
>into chaos, and after about 20 years, one will end up with yet another
>party which people want to overthrow.

But it is hardly the rule in Chinese history!  When the people overthrew
Sui, they got Tang (a better dynasty).  When they overthrew Ming, they got
Qing (a better dynasty), etc., etc.

>Because of this, I am not enthusiatic about just overthrowing the CCP
>through traditional means.  We need to find other ways so that we can
>break this cycle of modern Chinese history.

Well, the Soviet communist party was overthrown, albeit in a non-traditional
means.  If you, however, consider that overthrow traditional, then I would
say that it is possible that overthrowing the CCP will help the Chinese
tremendously.

>As long as the CCP keeps on its policy of economic reform (and by now
>so much power has flowed to the provinces that its impossible for it
>not to) and as long as there seem to be some people in the CCP who
>understand the situation, I would say that our efforts are better
>spent transforming the CCP rather than overthrowing it.

Like how Egon Kranz spent East German efforts trying to transform the East
German communist party?  Like how the Hungarian leader (forgot his name) spent
Hungarian efforts trying to transform the Hungarian communist party?  Like
how Mikhail Gorbachev spent Soviet efforts trying to transform the Soviet
communist party?

At first, people's lives will be improved by these transformations, and that
is good.  However, as the reforms go, it is inevitable that there will have to
be an eventual split between the reformers and the hardliners.
From: yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: ROC vs PRC
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:51:06 GMT
Reply-To: yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA, USA

In article <80570@ut-emx.uucp>, joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
|> 
|> Had the United States fought only to save South Korea, it is very
|> unlikely that the Chinese would have entered the Korean War.  The
|> problem was that once American troops crossed the 38th parallel and
|> headed northward, Mao and his friends became very nervous.  What

I had never been a great student on the subject of history but
was not it n-korea crossed 38th parallel first. CCP+n-korea won quite a few
battles and captured a few US generals inclding a 2-star before MacArthur
came in. If I remeber it right, even seoul was (or soon-to-be) lost to n-korea.

|> worried them was the possibility that American troops would not stop
|> once they reached the Yalu River and would continue into Manchuria.
|> Even if the United States did stop at the Yalu River, China would have
|> to garrision a lot of troops at its border with Korea to defend itself
|> against a hostile regime.
|> 
|> Also, I agree with you that Chiang Kai-Shek had almost no influence in
|> the American decision to enter the Korean War. 

Not only that, Chiang did not get US help and support after 1949 after
korea-war broke out. US then realized that they could not make friends with
CCP and then decided to send 7th fleet to taiwan strait and continue support
KMT.
From: ma@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: History of Xinjinag?
Date: 30 Sep 92 11:36:47 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <yy7085.717862427@eehp10>, yy7085@eehp10.cen.uiuc.edu () writes:
> 
> Hi, there. I got a forwarding from my Turkish friend. The forwarding is
> an article about Xijiang. Though my Turkish friend told me before that 
> Xijiang was not part of China before 1949 and he would predict the independence
> of Xijiang not a remote event, I'd like to hear about all you guys' opinions, 
> especially the ones who are knowledgeable in the history of Xijiang. 
> 
> ----------- the following is the forwarding I got ----------------

[The story deleted]

Some comments:
The story was probably true. However, what it says is just that there was
a guerrilla in some area of Xinjiang in 1940's. Even though we assume that
the every word of the story is true, it is still too far from concluding that
Xinjiang was not part of China during that period. There were guerrilla, or
may called Tu3Fei3 (remember KMT called CCP Gong4Fei3) everywhere in China
at that time. Some claimed their own gorvenments, as CCP did. But they were
all cleaned up after 1949. The KMT Chinese Government governed Xinjiang as
good , and as bad as any other part of China during that period. Therefore,
in my opinion, the story can't prove Xinjiang was not part of China. 
It also depends on the outcome. If that guerrilla mentioned in the story
had successfully survived, and been strong enough to take over the entire
China, like CCP did, it could have named the whole country East Turkistan
Republic or Empire, or what so ever. But the problem for them is that it
didn't happen. 
So a bunch of people in Kazakhstan claim Xinjiang. Some in India clain Xizang.
A few in Taiwan claim China. A claim is just a claim.

Ma
  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: Blood Card Lottery
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:01:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.150601.21704@bnlux1.bnl.gov> ping@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Shiping  
Zhang) writes:
> In article <2ACB9A41.29790@news.service.uci.edu> yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon  
Yeh) writes:
> 
> >[...]
> >to control George Bush.  So, how about playing a Blood Card Lottery?
> >[...]
> >
> >shannon
> >-------
> >
> >PS: this idea was contributed by a friend.
> 
>   That's a real way to make money out of other people's blood.
>   You can also play a lottery on Shen Tong's fate.
> 
> -ping


I would be happy to play lotto on Shannon Yeh's fate.

Carl
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:26543 soc.culture.taiwan:14036 soc.culture.hongkong:11520
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: TW News 28/9/92
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:59:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.152606.513@m.cs.uiuc.edu> yang@dante.cs.uiuc.edu (Der-Shung Yang) writes:
>elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang) writes:
>
>
>>ROH ARRIVED IN CHINA FOR HISTORIC VISIT
>
>>BEIJING -- South Korean President Roh Tae Woo began a historic visit
>>yesterday in Beijing, saying that it would help lay the groundwork for
>>ending Cold War tensions with North Korea.
>
>>He was greeted at the airport by Chinese Trade Minister Li Lanqing,
>>Vice-Foreign Minister Xu Dunxin and several dozen Soth Koreans.
>
>
>Shouldn't he be greeted by some more higher-rank officials from China?
>Anybody care to comment?
>
I know the Duputy PM in charge of Foreign affairs(Wu XueQian) is in Tokyo,
the foreign minister might be away also, I think that's why they sent
the Trade minister instead.  But, ;->  this is kinda of straight to
the point:  "let's talk about business now!"  ;->
>
>--
>DerShung Yang    
>yang@cs.uiuc.edu 
>Beckman Institute
>Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: zliu@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Zhong Liu)
Subject: Re: Oct 1, our National Day
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:17:33 GMT


Why China was able to build atomic and hydrogen bombs in an almost
close door environment but can not build her own economy? I think
the CCP finally realises military power cannot be built on poor
economy unless the military power is used to invade/liberate
her neighbors, such as Iraq invaded Kuwait and grabed almost everything
to pay for the weapons. But history proves such use of power will
always fail. Back to the question, today's China economy really
failed in comparison with  the great a-bomb and h-bomb achievements.
Look at our government how to operate its economy, it's not
difficult to conclude the the CCP only knows how to kill its own
people and never knows how to build economy. The a-bomb and h-bomb
achievements were under the pressure of US and former Soviet Unions.
Today, the CCP is under no pressure except how to keep its communist
regime. All I can say, China is dying in the hands of the CCP. And
who wants such indenpendce?

Z. Liu
From: tylee@austin.ibm.com (Ter-Yuan Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: ROC vs PRC
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:08:16 GMT
Organization: IBM
Originator: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com


In article <BvGqD5.HuC@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>, bihkyan@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Yang Yuanxin) writes:
                                                             
> 
>  I borrowed 4 books about Korean war from Chicago public library monthes
> ago, at least two of them mentioned the POW incident, very very close to
> what I heared in China. Also, I found that books published after 1980
> are more reliable, less propaganda. 
>  If you wanto know the books names I borrowed, I can give you next week,
>  According to these books written by American, I can say, CCP is too
> honest on this issue, they could have gain much more if they have 1/10
> of the propaganda/brain wash ability as KMT has. If they had 1/100 of
> the courage of lying as KMT has, I can't imagine...
> 
> YY
> 

I was not talking to you but CongZong. He said in China he saw certain
reports on the Korean war. Then, I asked him to provide me the reference.
OK, since you volunteered, send the titles to me. I will check them out,
and, maybe give a summary.
   
As I said if CongZong could provide me the reference from China, I would
gladly consent your point that communist Chinese is "too" honest according
to communist Chinese side of view. But, don't imply that I was brainwashed
by CNP. Because, by saying so, the ground and bottom line for this debate
will be shattered. How could you claim that CNP was lying? Have you read the
the publications from communist China and CNP about this? Or, you only believe
what "American" said?


-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ter-Yuan Lee                                                              */
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao)
Subject: Re: Protection Bill
Organization: MITRE
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:13:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.134020.1@cua.edu>, chenx@cua.edu writes:
> 
> I posted a question about the Protection Bill two days ago, and I would like to 
> thank you all who responded to my question.  But, in my understanding, most of
> the responses, except one, confused the difference between China and the
> Chinese Government.  There is no doubt that China needs all of us to go 
> back.  China needed Sun ZhongShan to go back from Japan, and it needed 
> Communists to go back from Europe.  But, the government at the time 
> absolutely did not want them to go back.  A country and a government 
> are absolutely different concepts,  but the government on power always 
> tried to make people confused about the difference.  A patriot can be an
> anti-government activist.  The Communist Party used armed force to
> overthrown the then-legal KMT government, we learned it from the elementary
> school.  Now, return to the old question:  Does Chinese Government really
> want these Chinese students to go back?      
> 
> 
I do not think Chinese Government really want these Chinese students to go
back. For high-tech engineer and scientist, they can easily find a job in
U.S, and it does not matter the protection bill is passed or not.  For rest
of these CSS (majority), nobody really care they go back or not. However,
if these CSS live in U.S, they will send back the dollars to China that
will help the economic reform.  If the protection bill passed, I think
Chinese Government will protest it but no retaliation, just for
face-saving.

The problem is that do you think U.S. Government really want to lose 80,000
jobs to
CSS?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: rzhu@math.uwaterloo.ca (Rupert Zhu)
Subject: Electronic Books
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 23:00:51 GMT


                     List of Electronic Books
               Accessible from University of Waterloo


Level 1:  Current Categories of Electronic Books

1.  Search Electronic Books <?>
2.  1990 USA Census Information/
3.  Aesop's Fables/
4.  Alice's Adventures in Wonderland/
5.  CIA World Factbook 1991/
6.  Complete Works of Shakespeare/
7.  Far From the Madding Crowd/
8.  Federalist Papers, The/
9.  Herland/
10. Historical Documents/
11. Hunting of the Snark, The/
12. King James Bible/
13. Moby Dick/
14. Narrative of the life of Frederick Douglass/
15. O Pioneers!/
16. Oedipus Trilogy, The/
17. Paradise Lost/
18. Peter Pan/
19. Roget's Thesaurus/
20. Scarlet Letter, The/
21. Song of Hiawatha/
22. Through the Looking Glass/
23. Time Machine, The/
24. War of the Worlds, The/
25. Zen and the Art of the Internet


Level 2:  Electronic Books in Category of Historical Documents

1.  Amendments.
2.  Annapolis Convention.
3.  Articles of Confederation.
4.  Bill of Rights.
5.  Charlotte Town Resolves.
6.  Constitution.
7.  Continental Congress Resolves.
8.  Declaration of Arms.
9.  Declaration of Independence.
10. Emancipation Proclamation.
11. First Thanksgiving Proclamation.
12. Fundamental Orders 1639.
13. German Surrender.
14. Gettysburg Address.
15. I Have a Dream.
16. Iroquois Constitution.
17. Iroquois Constitution (README).
18. Japanese Surrender.
19. Jefferson Inaugural.
20. Lincoln Inaugural 2.
21. Magna Carta.
22. Mayflower Compact.
23. Monroe Doctrine.
24. Northwest Ordinance.
25. Paris Treaty 1783.
26. Proclamation of Neutrality.
27. Rights of Man.
28. Transmittal.
29. Treaty of Greenville.
30. Virginia Declaration of Rights.
31. Washington Farewell.

=======================================================================
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:26646 talk.politics.china:1468
From: rzhu@math.uwaterloo.ca (Rupert Zhu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
Subject: FTP Site of Electronic Books
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:26:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: math.BvD2Bs.2x0
Organization: University of Waterloo

Several friends asked me for FTP sites to get electronic books.

The following is one of the FTP sites which store electronic books.
I will try to dig out more information later.

    
FTP OAK.OAKLAND.EDU
USER ANONYMOUS
PASSWORD USERID
CD PUB\MSDOS\BOOKS

Here is the index

 Filename   Type Length   Date   Description
==============================================
AESOP11.ZIP   B  102164  920615  Nov 1991 Aesop's Fables
AESOPA10.ZIP  B   32091  920618  Mar 1992 Aesop's Fables (ADVANTAGE)
ALICE29.ZIP   B   64809  920615  Jan 1991 Alice in Wonderland
BIBLE10.ZIP   B 1636512  920618  Apr 1992 New Etext of Bible (KJV)
CROWD13.ZIP   B  358371  920618  Mar 1992 Far From the Madding Crowd
DUGLAS11.ZIP  B  102460  920618  Jan 1992 Frederick Douglass
FEDER15.ZIP   B  467260  920615  Aug 1991 The Federalist Papers
HISONG12.ZIP  B   78337  920615  The Song of Hiawatha
HRLND10.ZIP   B  136293  920618  May 1992 Herland (FOR MOTHER'S DAY)
LGLASS16.ZIP  B   73128  920615  Feb 1991 Through the Looking Glass
MOBY.ZIP      B  606033  920615  May 1991 Moby Dick (FROM OBI)*
MORMON13.ZIP  B  513720  920615  Jul 1991 The Book of Mormon
OEDIP10.ZIP   B  103284  920618  May 1992 Sophocles' Oedipus Trilogy
PLBOSS11.ZIP  B  217770  920615  Oct 1991 Paradise Lost
PLRABN11.ZIP  B  214541  920618  Feb 1992 Paradise Lost (RABEN)
ROGET13.ZIP   B  580335  920615  Dec 1991 Roget's Thesaurus
ROGET13A.ZIP  B  643011  920615  Dec 1991 Roget's Thesaurus
SCRLT10.ZIP   B  222695  920630  Jun 1992 The Scarlet Letter
SNARK12.ZIP   B   17184  920615  The Hunting of the Snark by Lewis Carroll
TIMEM10.ZIP   B   84641  920731  Jul 1992 The Time Machine-(HG Wells)
USCEN90.ZIP   B   38665  920618  Data From the 1990 Census
USCEN902.ZIP  B   63270  920824  Aug 1992 The 1990 US Census (2nd)
WARW10.ZIP    B  161767  920731  Jul 1992 The War of the Worlds-(HG Wells)
WORLD12.ZIP   B  798086  920615  Apr 1991 1990 CIA World Factbook
WORLD91A.ZIP  B  912325  920618  1991 CIA World Factbook
ZEN10.ZIP     B   71459  920630  Jun 1992 Zen and the Art of the Internet

=======================================================================


Information Exchange
---------------------            rzhu@math.uwaterloo.ca
Rupert Zhu  (in Canada)
From: lix@yangtze.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Oct 1, Greencard, and others
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:00:26 GMT
Organization: Boston University

In article <9210022142.AA09340@phloem.uoregon.edu> Tuya@ccmail.uoregon.edu writes:
>
>          Oct. 1 is no more important than the day Mr. Zhu Yuan1
>          Zhang1 became the president of China.  From a historical
>          point of view, they are essentially events of the same
>          nature.

No more? I think less. 1) Ming overdrawn a foreign (at that time)
dynasty; 2) Ming became a first rate of world power (at that time).
Mao's achievement, if any, can't surpass Zhu Yuan Zhang in these
two regards. On the other hands, Mao repeated almost all mistakes
of early Ming dynasty, such as self-isolation, and cruelity to its
own officials, intellectuals  and people.

--
From: dhsy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: FWD:Senate sustains Bush veto on China MFN
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:31:17 EDT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University


XiaoFei says:

>>* Bush for vetoeing the bill.
> Is this article written by Quayl ?  Where should I register a complaint
> from the inconvenience the extra `e' caused ?

Well XiaoFei always overdoes things.  You should deduct the "extra e" from
the UPI, or whoever posted that piece of news from UPI, not from the
vice president's name!  In fact some extra e's would never hurt, but a
shortage of e's can be a serious problem.  :-)  How about XiaoFi ? :-)

dhsy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: liud@hobo.ECE.ORST.EDU (Don Liu)
Subject: Re: Can I buy a fax machine from U.S. and install in China?
Organization: ECE Dept.,OSU,Corvallis
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 23:49:31 GMT


If you plan to buy a FAX and bring it to China, be careful. I tried this
last year. I bought a small FAX machine and mailed it to LA where my
cousin was temporarily staying for a bussiness trip. My idea was to
utilize their official status to avoid trouble. Yet my cousin thought
it was more important to be loyal to his boss and asked the boss about
any regulation on this matter. According to the delegation leader, one
must pay about $350 tax to bring a FAX into China, and must register
the machine with the PSB thru his employer.

Of course this was one year ago. Plus, you don't have to register
in order to actually USE it, because it is just a machine capable
of hi-pitched, multi-tone screaming, much like what you hear during
night in cat's mating seasons. When you hear a door-knoking, hide
your fax, pick up your phone, say "come in, please", then scream 
into the phone: "gee gee gee--, ju ju ju ---".

meauw!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china