From: kalki33!system@lakes.trenton.sc.us
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Separateness and Earth Changes (was Re: What's your SIQ?)
Keywords: earth changes, some strong predictions
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 05:03:26 EST
Reply-To: kalki33!system@lakes.trenton.sc.us
Organization: Kalki's Infoline BBS, Aiken, SC, USA

smd@sl0091.srl.ford.com (Steve Dahmen) writes:

> Sigh.  I guess you're too emeshed in it to see, and too ungrounded to be
> able to see what you are doing.  Forgive me for asking you to do a reality
> check.  

We forgive you.

> 
> Perhaps you don't know the word pundit, also sometimes spelled pandit.
> A pundit is a person (more commonly older, Indian (east)) who spends his
> professional time speaking on the scriptures.  Usually, though not necessaril
> he's not a priest, and doesn't perform ritual for others.  he just talks.
> And talks.  And talks.  And emptyminded people sit and listen and marvel 
> at his beautiful voice and perhaps get some wisdom from the scriptures.
> Most indicative of a pundit, that I have found in my years spent within
> the Hindu community, as well as my trip to India several years back, is that
> they don't listen to anyone's dogma but their own, and cling to scriptural
> words rather than their own spiritual vision.

The prime example of a pandita is Chanakya, who was Chandragupta
Maurya's prime minister. He accepted no salary, and lived in a hut. But
his instructions on the duties of a righteous king are still considered
authoritative.

> So, Kalki, you stand upon a sandalwood soapbox, vomiting an ego-tarnished
> spiritual lunch all over the rest of us.  I for one am getting nauseous of
> the whole thing.
> 

If our job was to humor you we would certainly apologize. Do you really
expect us to stop posting simply because you don't like what we say?


> It really blows my mind that people can apply powerful spiritual practices
> such as chanting, singing, dancing, and worship, and still receive no
> inner guidance... or worse yet the kind of illusory guidance that says it
> is appropriate to come stumbling into an open-minded (am i?) spiritual commun
> and start unloading personal beliefs as if we'd been forming a line... like
> that odd Dr. Seuss character that came into a peaceful town and set up his
> factory that killed all the trees.

Tell us, why are chanting, singing, dancing and worship such powerful
spiritual practices?

> 
> To perhaps help you here... imagine yourself at a personal audience with
> Srila Prabhupada.  You are at his (lotus) feet.  You ask him, "Is it right
> to test people's "spiritual IQ?" and then grade them on it?  WOuld you
> do it, Gurudev?  Even though many people Love God dearly in this newsgroup
> that I write on, do you think I should tell them in a loud manner of
> how much better and higher "our" beliefs are?"   What, in all truthfulness
> do you think would be his reply?  Sometimes, based on some of his writing,
> I would guess he might actually support you.  But from what my friend
> told me of his attitudes, he was actually quite against prosylatization.
> Its a shame that's what ISKCON is known for in most people's minds.
> 

Srila Prabhupada himself instituted the Bhakti-shastri examination for
the express purpose of testing the devotees' spiritual knowledge and
knowledge of the scriptures. His examination was much more difficult
than our simple SIQ test, which anyone with even a tiny amount of
knowledge of God should have been able to pass.

> When I was holding fast to my path of Yoga, and Guru Bhakti (devotion to
> a teacher) I would often ask myself, "Would He/She do this?"  and I would
> refrain if I could not in my heart say YES.  It moved me a long quickly, as
> I aligned with his mastery by this method.  I wonder what question, if any,
> you ask youself before you post to this group.
> 

Are we to understand that you are no longer holding fast to "your" path
of Yoga?

> As to the tarnished image of ISKCON, ask the average person how much they
> like some ungrounded, spaced out youth dressed in orange shoving heavy
> books and flowers into their hands at airports and such.  As them how they
> feel about one of their main leaders being indicted on first degree murder
> charges.  Ask people if they know anyone who's gotten involved with ISKCON
> and ask them what they thought of their friend's changes after involvement
> (if they didn't disappear tojoin the group).  
> 

In the last paragraph, you state that you were on some path of "yoga"
and were performing "Guru bhakti", yet in this paragraph you are mocking
those who do the same thing. You give lip-service to Srila Prabhupada
and then you blaspheme his disciples. It is foolish and very dangerous
to criticize the Lord's devotees in this way.

Regarding the supposed "main leader" who was indicted, if you are
referring to Kirtanananda your facts are incorrect. He was ejected from
ISKCON many years ago when his practices were brought to light.

> Perhaps I've got an inside line that most poeple don't have, so maybe my
> views are more tarnished.... but I've heard nothing but stories of strife
> and difficulty concerning the New Vrindaban community in West Virginia.
> Most of the problems stem because everyone has given away their power, and
> few understand that Devotion is NOT Emotion, and that a devotional life does
> not mean you have to adopt every trapping of a foreign culture, and that
> you CAN have TWO feet planted firmly on this Earth and be enraptured with God
> 

The New Vrindavan community has no connection with ISKCON.

> It seems to me, Kalki, you are living in a fantasy world... one perhaps more
> reminiscient of ISKCON's earlier days.  You'd best wake up and realize that
> organized religions of any sort are now facing all their power karma and 
> people are starting to wake up to the dark influences that various Humans 
> have brought to devotional paths here on earth.  Get into your body please
> and take a look at what's happening around you, for surely it is a mirror
> of what is happening inside you.  And if its not resolved this lifetime,
> then you'll come back again as another Follower until you get it.  Jesus,
> Krishna, Hitler, MOhammad... fanatacism raises its ugly face in many
> traditions.  I am sure you've known more than a few in your lives.
> 

> Why am I giving this so much energy?  I guess its because I've walked a few
> miles in those sandals you wear now, and I know that much of mankind still
> insists on wearing them... and that time is running out.  The days of Denial
> are coming to a close, and putting God in personality on a cloud with a face
> and ignoring our own Godforce are not going to resolve spiritual crisis on
> Earth.  The path of Separation is an ancient path here.  There's a lot of joy
> in it, religion depends upon it as its basis. But it's not going
> to be supported on a planet who's Spiritual Destiny will be manifesting
> itself here in the next 20 years.  There are other places/planets
> which will be provided for people who still wish to continue the journey
> believing themselves to be so separate from the GodForce.  Souls that still
> wish to maintain their separation will be moved to the place where they
> need to be.
> 

You are giving this so much energy because you are a demon who is
envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His devotees, and you
are afraid that your bluff will be called. It certainly will.

Sincerely,
Kalki Dasa


       -------------------------------------------------------
      |  Don't forget to chant:   Hare Krishna Hare Krishna   |
      |                           Krishna Krishna Hare Hare   |
      |                           Hare Rama Hare Rama         |
      |                           Rama Rama Hare Hare         |
      |                                                       |
      |   Kalki's Infoline BBS Aiken, South Carolina, USA     |
      |        (kalki33!kalki@lakes.trenton.sc.us)            |
       -------------------------------------------------------
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