HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: frank@unixg.ubc.ca (Murray Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Honda perfection management
Date: 22 Jan 93 05:41:42 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: kynok.ucs.ubc.ca

In <1993Jan22.013308.18148@en.ecn.purdue.edu> surge@en.ecn.purdue.edu (PhD-in-Training) writes:

>In article <ELI.93Jan20092614@glare.cisco.com> eli@cisco.com (Steve Elias) writes:
B
stuff deleted

>The Hondas have a good reliability record as far as break down on
>the road, I don't doubt that.  The point of this thread is that
>most Honda owners conveniently seem to forget the ridiculously
>high maintinence costs of their cars.  I don't have to have my
>timing done (not till past 100K if ever, thanks to engine
>management).  I don't have to have my valves adjusted routinely.
>I don't have to have a rubber timing belt replaced (mine is
>chain).  Wait till you have to replace your timing belts to the tune of a
>couple hundred bucks (at 60K)....you will still be singing the
>"reliability" song.  That's what annoys non-Honda owners.

The facts on average ownership costs are not so clear cut as has been 
being suggested. From Autopinion 93 published by the Canadian Automobile 
Association: Average Mechanical Repair Costs for 1988 thru 1992
Accord $724, $ 507, $378, $371, $281
Taurus $664, $ 499, $509, $212, $215

Degree of owner satisfaction: Very Satisfied
Taurus 77.9%, Accord 90.9%
From: schwinn@bernoulli.WPI.EDU (Ashwin Purohit)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: slick 50
Date: 26 Jan 93 05:08:04 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: bernoulli.wpi.edu

In article <C1F2JG.A9B@trc.amoco.com> zrol01@trc.amoco.com writes:
>You don't need Slick-50 or STP or any of the additives.  If they were
>needed the oil companies would have incorporated them long ago.
>
>Mr. Wade's comments are correct.  Just change your oil and filter
>every 3000 miles and cool your jets.  I've heard others that
>suggest using a synthetic oil such as Mobil 1 changed every 10,000
>miles BUT change the filter every 3000 miles.  The filter change is 
>an overlooked but VERY important step.  It is a very inexpensive
>replacement step to throw away all of the abraided metal and junk
>that get traped.  Oil stays cleaner, filter throughput is higher,
>engine lasts longer...
>
>Rick

	I agree that slick 50 isn't NEEDED if you change your oil
regularly. However, in older cars, such as my old Buick, when you tend
to burn oil, it sure as hell helps. In fact, I ran out of oil 3 times
in that V6 engine (which only had 3 well-running cyliders - probably
forgot some oil changes along the way). It still ran without seizing
up - 3 empty oilpans....quite impressive. I guess you could call it a
saftey feature.

				Schwinn@wpi.wpi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: hellmann@cs.scarolina.edu (Doug Hellmann)
Subject: Re: Japanese cars never die!!!!
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:02:43 GMT

white_w@ab.wvnet.edu writes:

>	I have a little automatic 2-wheel-drive '81 subaru GL wagon, and I
>would just like to put in my 2 cents worth.  I boutht the car used 9 months
>ago from a dealer.  I paid $1000.  Since then I have wrecked twice (only one
>was my fault).  It ate a guardrail at over 60 miles an hour, and survived.
>I also sideswiped a Bonneville at about 20 (I wasn't looking behind me when
>I pulled out *embarrasment*).  I have put 18,000 miles on top of the 101,000
>that were on it when I bought it.  Except for new brake pads (safety
>precaution) I haven't done anything to it but change the oil and beat out
>dents.  I put 2000 miles on it in the last two weeks, 1000 in two days.  It
>has never failed.  Show me a chevette that can say that.
>				W. C. White
>				White_W@ab.wvnet.edu

Japanese cars may appear to last a long time, but when something does go
bad on them, better kiss your money goodbye.
I drove Chevettes (had 4) since I was in high school.  Granted, they did
break down, but when I had to replace something, every junkyard in town
had the part and were willing to almost give it away because they had so
many. All of my Chevettes lasted at least 130k miles, too.
I'd buy american for a lot of reasons, but the fact that the parts are
considerably cheaper than Jap parts has a good deal to do with it.  
Besides, I never paid more that $400 for a Chevette either.

-Samantha

>
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: 1-800 for Ford
Date: 23 Jan 93 01:52:50 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: na
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <44142@gremlin.nrtc.northrop.com> jslee@nrtc.nrtc.northrop.com (John Lee) writes:
>> bing@jazz.concert.net (Carter E. Bing) writes:
>>	Could someone pass the 1-800 number for Ford to me.
>
>	Based on previous experience with them, it may as well be
>1-800-YOU-LOSE or 1-800-TUF-LUCK.

   Try 1-800-BUY-HNDA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: green@cbnewse.cb.att.com (david.bruce.green)
Subject: What about flywheel based vehicles
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 08:04:53 GMT
Keywords: I've lost hope for electric



I guess I've given up on electric vehicles ever becoming practical.
So, now I am convincing myself that fly-wheel technology will be the
next major shift in automobiles.  The simple view I've taken proposes
a small internal combustion engine running at a super-efficient, super
clean, constant speed to "load-up" a fly-wheel to store energy.  When
you want to burn rubber, the fly-wheel is engaged to the drive wheels.
Some pretty hefty torque and power can be tapped depending on the mass
and rpm of the fly-wheel.  Of course, regenerative braking recaptures
some of the energy to the fly-wheel when slowing or stopping is required.

In some ways, the age old challenge of maximum acceleration has a
different twist with this technology.  There can be so much stored
energy in the fly-wheel that LIMITING its delivery to the drive wheels
would probably be the most important factor.

And I'm assuming that weight of the fly-wheel is no problem since the
real energy will be stored by the speed at which it rotates.

Any insight on what problems exist with this type of vehicle?

					Dave Green
					dbg@attmail.com
					
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Speeding ticket in OKlahoma --- what's SP8?
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:04:04 GMT

>
>	Ms. Greis, you're going off completely half-cocked.  You can get a
>ticket for 10 over in a 55 zone on a clear day with no one around you for
>miles around and no construction zones.  Do you actually expect me to believe
>that 65mph on an empty interstate with clear visibility and no poor old men
>or construction workers is a dangerous speed?  I just don't buy it.
>-- 
>Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
>behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike

i agree...obviously ms. breis is an anal retentive control-freak.  i bet 
'she' goes thru a roll of toilet paper a day!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:39:39 GMT

qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi) writes:

>>>With all the advances in aerodynamics and ergonomics in design in the past
>>>ten years (mostly on the part of European and Japanese makers), this beast
>>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>Apparently the Ford Taurus had little influence on the shape of cars today.
>>In my opinion there is no car that has had a greater influence on the vast
>>improvements of aerodynamics than the Taurus.

>--Why doesn't anyone give credit to the '84 Audi 5000 S???  I thought this
>  was the car that started the wave of aerosedans!!!  The Taurus merely
>  copied the Audi's aerodynamic styling!

The Taurus was launched in 1985 as an '86.  Ford was probably locked into
the design at least as early as 1982; that's way before the 5000S.

If you look deeper, you'll find that Ford launched the restyled Cougar
and T-Bird in '82 (or so).  Those vehicles, IMHO, set the stage.

Also, don't forget that the Taurus was marketed to eventually replace the
LTD and the Marquis.  In other words, it was intended for use by Ma and
Pa America, not the fringe Euro-American driver.  It combined FWD, an
independent suspension, automatic overdrive, tight steering, and a large
cabin and trunk all packaged in swoopy aerodynamics.  That sedan and its
wagon counterpart were real shockers.  It took GM years to answer with the
Lumina and its siblings.  Chrysler hasn't fully answered until today.
Japan only has the Camry and Maxima to fully compare.  The Accord was a
little putz-mobile and the old Camrys and Maximas weren't much better.
Even today, the Accord still seats one less, is slightly lacking in safety,
and has a weaker four cylinder.  Please don't get me wrong, these are all 
great cars with their own little flare.  I guess what really gets me is that 
some people actually credit Japan with influencing styling and aerodynamics;
well, at least now they try.

BTW, I too, nominate the Caprice as the worst car.

Next, possibly, is the Del Sol.

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH
From: rogers@calamari.hi.com (Andrew Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Rain-X?
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:38:08 GMT
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products, OSSD division
NNTP-Posting-Host: calamari.hi.com

In article <1993Jan27.211421.2356@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>>If so, are their any side-effects, or consequences?
>
>...and they become slaves to re-rain-xing the window monthly since washer fluid
>eats it away.  luckily my car came with windshield wipers for free so i 
>just use them when it rains.>

True, but it really works well on areas that aren't covered by windshield
wipers - the hatch window (if you don't have a wiper), rearmost side windows
on wagons, mirrors, headlights...

AWR
From: co940@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nicholas E. Damato)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Q: how do i know if i need a new catalytic converter?
Date: 24 Jan 1993 05:56:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Hi, my milage has dropped, and the car seems sluggish. it has
about 70,000 mi, i've looked at a lot of things, but i'm
wondering how i can tell if the catalytic is fried.
thank you for the info.
n.e.d.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: SHO Problems
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 15:15:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <16509@auspex-gw.auspex.com> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
>For any of you who listened to my problems with air conditioning
>on my '90 SHO, my Ford dealer has agreed to replace the air conditioner for
>me if I pay the $50 deductible that would be charged under the ESP.
>
>To me, at this point, after six failures of the air conditioning, this
>seems quite reasonable.  Any comments?
>
>
>Tom Pickett 

I think you'd be justified in expecting them to replace it
without charge to you...Six failures, to me, indicates the
machinery must be fundamentally fucked up, and that strikes
me as Ford's problem (not really the *dealers* problem, the
*manufacturers* problem.)

Regards, Charles
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: philip@mentorg.com (Philip Peake)
Subject: Re: Speeding ticket in OKlahoma --- what's SP8?
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:50:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Mentor Graphics
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 

In article <1jt9g9INNgg5@uwm.edu>, greis@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gayla Ann Greis) writes:

|> You may think I'm a jerk for writing this, but I hope that this
|> ticket makes you think before you get behind the wheel - and while
|> you're at it! 

I don't think that anyone (well ... most reasonable people) would disagree
with what you wrote, or write you off as a jerk - IF you were talking about
speeding as in "exceeding a reasonable limit given the road conditions".

The problem is that many of the limits are not reasonable.
As someone recently pointed out, driving at 60 mph on sections of
road which are now labeled 65 used to make you a filthy low-life
scum who should really be shot - and now, without any changes to
the road (except maybe the addition of a few more cars), you suddenly
become a model citizen dutifully obeying the law ....

Philip
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mike Serafin)
Subject: Re: LH warranty
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:01:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.161929.25559@lds.loral.com> mcculloc@sps203.lds.loral.com (Thad McCulloch) writes:
>I've decided to take the plunge and have placed an order for an Eagle Vision
>TSI.  The car should arrive in a couple of months.  My question involves the
>selection of the warranty period.  The Chrysler LH cars give the buyer the
>choice:  12/12 everything + 7/70 powertrain OR
>         36/36 everything
>
>Given that the LH cars are new and Chrysler being Chrysler, any 
>recommendations about what warranty selection might be the better bet?

A lot of it really depends on how long you plan to keep the vehicle and how
much driving you do.  If you trade in vehicles rather frequently, maybe you
should go with the 36/36. If you plan on keeping the car beyond 4 years,
probably the best bet is the 12/12/7/70.  I just bought a '93 Grand Cherokee,
and chose the 12/12/7/70 option.  Considering the extensive non-powertrain
components on this vehicle, I am also seriosly considering an extended
warranty.  Evaluate your intended usage and make a decision from there.


******************************************************************************
Mike Serafin             serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com       Texas Instruments
DoD #0742  AMA #671922  HOG #0565502                            Dallas, Texas
1967 Firebird 326              1982 Honda CM250C
1969 Barracuda Formula 340S    1993 H-D FLHS 
1988 Ford F250 4x4             1964 Cessna 310I
1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee
******************************************************************************

>
>---------------
>Thad McCulloch
>mcculloc@lds.loral.com
From: mdennie@beryllium.mc.xerox.com (Matt Dennie)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Speeding ticket in OKlahoma --- what's
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:20:12 GMT
Reply-To: mdennie@beryllium.mc.xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Corporation

In article 13463@leland.Stanford.EDU, tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>
>this is a mistake of fact, not ignorance of the law.
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>and mistake of fact *can* be an excuse.  in this case,
>though, the law may hold the owner responsible for the
>accuracy of his speedometer.
>
>-teddy

I don`t know what a mistake of fact is, legally speaking, but I know I 
was recently convicted of speeding when the judge said, "I believe you
didn`t know that you were speeding, but I believe you were speeding."  Then
he made me pay a $60 fine and $25 state surcharge ($85 total).  Not a big deal
until the insurance surcharges come in for the next 39 months (probably to the
tune of $2000 in all).

"I`ll never speed again.  I`ll buy a Valentine One.  God, what should I do?"

---
--Matt Dennie                              Internet: mmd.wbst207v@xerox.com
Xerox Corporation, Rochester, NY (USA)
"Reaching consensus in a group often
 is confused with finding the right answer."  -- Norman Maier
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cyliao@iastate.edu (Jessy Liao)
Subject: Re: Rain-X?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:30:40 GMT

In article <C1Iyny.5Ds@utdallas.edu> goyal@utdallas.edu (MOHIT K GOYAL) writes:
>Does this product really work?
>If so, are their any side-effects, or consequences?

yes it really WORKS!!!
it's one of the very few things on the market that actually does what it
says :) Best seen when driving in the heavy rain and when trying to
pass those huge trucks. All I did was to turn the wiper on once or twice,
while sighting others' wiper going crazy :)

the only complain i have is that when there's little rain at night.. and
 you are driving in the city with street lights.. the tiny little
rain drops (with a sphere shape rather than sticks flat on the winshied)
act as some kind of mag lens that reflect the street lights...
that makes you see thousands if not hundreds of tiny little shininig
things from the winshield.. very annoying. You need to keep wiper going
in that case.

otherwise, wishield wiper on freeway is 99.44% not needed, and you see better
than a winshield with crazy wiper without ran-x :)

it's been 2 months.. it still works.. though not as good as the day i applied
for the first time.

standard disclaimer applied.



-- 
Jessy Liao                 |\   |  __ \  /-----                 -------------
cyliao@iastate.edu         | \  | /  \ \/   | A Milano      ------------
c.y.liao@ieee.org          |  \ ||---- /\   |  Dreamer  ---------
CprE Iowa State University |   \| \__ /  \  |Mail OK, I have MailService.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: pebi@aem.umn.edu (Peter A. Bidian)
Subject: Re: Politics of car buying
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:47:50 GMT

jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:

>c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>>>In Germany, where there are even fewer restrictions on importing cars than in the US
>>>(no quota, no extra taxes on light trucks), Japanese cars are almost as successful as
>>>they are in the US. 

>>I don't think so; I have the figures in the library, but I seem to remember
>>that Japanese car market share in Germany is at best in the low teens %,
>>while in the US is in the upper twenties or low thirties...

>Until January 1, 1992 there were extreme limitations on Japanese
>imports into Germany, so I would be really surprised if in the last
>year they've managed that much penetration.

>jim frost
>jimf@centerline.com

Can you guys check your statements and give some sources before you post?
I can remember that the japanese Imports into Germany a couple of years 
ago were around 15%. I don't think that got worse for the Japanese. The
cars are quite popular over there. Other countries like Italy and France
have very stringent quotas. I hardly saw japanese cars in Italy.

Peter
From: crowede@ucs.orst.edu (Debra Crowe)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Why is US engine technology so retrograde?
Date: 23 Jan 1993 00:22:59 GMT
Organization: UCS, Oregon State University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: crowede-mac.ucs.orst.edu

In article <1993Jan22.221059.11074@leland.Stanford.EDU>
tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>In article <IfLw32G00ioW8Ns6J6@andrew.cmu.edu> jyri+@CMU.EDU (Jyri Virkki)
writes:
>>Large, torqey (sp?) engines feel very different from small high
>>revving engines. You pick whichever you like the most. Me, I think big
>>engines are good for trucks and luxury cars, neither of which I have
>>any interest in. For sport[y|s] cars, like your example above, a large
>>engine would be disgusting. Large engines tend to be sluggish and low
>>revving, thus no fun at all on a sports car.
>
>oh, really.  you haven't driven a corvette LT1 lately, have you?
>hair-trigger throttle response at any engine speed.  compare that
>to the 300ZX turbo, which needs to see 4 grand to produce any kind
>of power.
>
>-teddy
>
yup, there's nothing more fun than being able to squeak 'em in third gear!
makes the 4 cylinder cars sit up and take notice...
(makes me feel sooooo high school ;)

Debra Crowe                          Email:crowede@ucs.orst.edu
'89 Mustang 5.0
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:20:44 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.194635.7009@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>
>'CR Statistics' is an oxymoron.
>
>Unless CR can prove that they have used a sample population
>representative of the actual population of course...

Why is that necessary for what they are trying to show. Unless the
people answering the questionaires are morons or like to lie, the
data is useful, it is not that hard to know when you got a repair.

>CR is great for getting you to THINK about features, but I have had
>serious questions about their credibility ever since I bought a
>lawnmower based on what they said... Just like in cars, they were
>quick to point out flaws or potential flaws in SOME brands but MAJOR
>flaws were sometimes ignored in SOME brands.
>

So, what did they mess up on? 

john
-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu         /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
                                           \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
  Back off man, I'm a Scientist!            \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: lhclin@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca (Louis Lin)
Subject: Selling Saturns in Japan (Re: Politics of car buying(Buying a Japanese car))
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:33:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.221143.9065@oakhill.sps.mot.com> rvkl60@email.sps.mot.com (Tom Mathes) writes:
>
>In the 1994 model year, Saturn will export cars to Japan specifically
>tailored for the Japanese market.  They will be right hand drive, have
>mirrors/lights designed for their market, and even come with power antennas
>(the domestic versions won't) so that the cars can be parked in those
>cubbyhole-like parking decks that are needed in dense urban areas, etc.
>It will be interesting to see if that car, which is successful in the
>U.S., can make it in Japan.
>

Here in Canada (or Ontario to be more specific), I do not notice that many
Saturns are running on the streets.  My suspicion is that they are not selling
that well.  In the US, the strongest selling point of Saturn so far I can see is
extremely good dealer service, which is not available here (Saturns are sold
through Isuzu/Saab/Saturn dealers), thus the mediocre sale.  So when Saturn is
to hit Japan in 1994, in order for it to be successful, not only the product has
to be right, good service must also be there.

I may be pessimistic, but if Saturn is to be sold through Toyota dealers in Japan
(correct me on this), it will certainly lost its strongest virtue.

-- 
______________________________________   ____ |    ____
| email : lhclin@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca | \/   o\J  \/   o\
| Louis Lin, Computer Graphics Lab,  | /\____/   /\____/
| University of Waterloo, Canada.    |             ||||
Newsgroups: rec.autos,misc.consumers,misc.kids,talk.politics.medicine,sci.med