HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: <h198@hosp.med.umich.edu>  (Gene Mangum)
Subject: News Question (plea for info)
Organization: Univ of Michigan Hospitals
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:20:00 GMT

Hi All,
I posted on n.a.technical, but no response, so I hope someone here can
help me.   I'm writing a DOS newsreader client and I have a question
that I haven't been able to answer by RTFRFC.   My question is: What
is the maximum article number within a newsgroup, and what happens
when a group reaches that max?   Do the numbers wrap to 1 or are the
existing articles renumbered?
Thanks for any help,

Gene Mangum
Univ of Michigan Hospitals
Newsgroups: news.admin,alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: ALT.GRAPHICS: Enough already!!!
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 03:29:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.112510@mccall.com> tp@mccall.com (Terry Poot) writes:

>In article <1992Oct8.160442.23928@netcom.com>, jef@netcom.com (Jef Poskanzer)
>writes:
>
>>- It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of right and wrong.
>>  I realize that some people don't understand the difference, but
>>  most do.
>
>It is a matter of opinion over right and wrong. Given that alt has no arbiter of
>right and wrong, even by popular consensus, differences of opinion are possible.
>Which part of this do you reject?

That alt has no arbiter of right and wrong, even by popular consensus.
There is an understanding (granted, a very general and loosely defined
one) among news administrators regarding which alt groups are
"properly" created and which ones are not.  For example, the arguments
in favor of the existence of alt.graphics usually run along the lines
of "nobody cares about alt" or "anyone can create an alt group at any
time."  The attitude of apathy, I think, is self-defeating.

>What I was referring to is
>the annoyance of receiving email from my news system giving me the blow-by-blow
>on your war with the forger. The last thing any news admin (or in this case,
>every news admin) needs is more annoyance.

I can cope with receiving the occasional rmgroup/newgroup pair in my
mailbox.  It, at least, is regular, unlike the performance of tin,
which I consider a major grievance. :-)  alt.graphics is really a drop
in the bucket.

>You are both guilty of sending out
>messages that annoy large numbers of news admins with no consideration for our
>feelings in the matter.

Whine.  Jef *could* put "becker" in the Path message for his rmgroup
messages to hide their existence from the guilty party, presumably
resulting in the lack of a following newgroup.  Nevertheless, this is
really out of proportion with the situation we're talking about.

Imminent death of alt.graphics predicted, film at 11 ....

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
From: Walter.Wohlmuth@f1.n100.z60.wlink.nl (Walter Wohlmuth)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: access to sci.materials and sci.optics
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 05:38:29 -0100

Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering

I am unable to get the newsgroups sci.materials and sci.optics
on my system.  Help obtaining these newsgroups would be much appreciated.

Newsgroups: news.admin,news.software.b
From: news@geovision.gvc.com (News Administrator)
Subject: Locking out sendsys?
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:10:40 GMT

I've received 4 sendsys commands from somebody, and each one has been
followed by a message from his site that his userid doesn't exist.  Is there
something I can do to stop this?

His userid is:
ycy@dec8.ncku.edu.tw
and the sendsys message has the line:
test for sendsys

I don't particularly like sending mail to Taiwan for no reason.  I am _not_
remaining calm.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, News Administrator Extraordinaire.  (pt@geovision.gvc.com)
I just administer the news, I don't make or state policy.
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli)
Subject: Re: News Question (plea for info)
Organization: Mentor Graphics -- IC Group
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:32:42 GMT

In <19921008192004.h198@hosp.med.umich.edu> <h198@hosp.med.umich.edu>  (Gene Mangum) writes:

>I posted on n.a.technical, but no response, so I hope someone here can
>help me.   I'm writing a DOS newsreader client and I have a question
>that I haven't been able to answer by RTFRFC.   My question is: What
>is the maximum article number within a newsgroup, and what happens
>when a group reaches that max?   Do the numbers wrap to 1 or are the
>existing articles renumbered?
>Thanks for any help,

There is no defined max, but most sites use a 32-bit int.  When a
newsgroup reaches that limit most software starts failing, the users
yell at the sysadmin, the sysadmin deletes the newsgroup and re-creates
it, and the cycle starts again.

Luckily, I don't think any newsgroup had yet to hit the limit.  Most
machines get recycled too often for it to happen.

Define a new type and use it consistantly.  If you find you picked
the wrong type you'll only have to change the .h file.

Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work) -- tal@plts.uucp (play)
"I like Bill Clinton tremendously.  I know him from the governors' conferences.
The Democrats nominated their best person, a very able fellow.  The country is
well served by that choice." -Bush's re-election chair in NJ (Thomas Kean)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.admin.misc
From: markz@ssc.com (Mark Zenier)
Subject: Re: No, I won't be starting an auto-canceller
Organization: SSC, Inc.,  Seattle, WA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 05:25:51 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


More neat stuff from
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc

Mark Zenier  markz@ssc.wa.com  

bruce@pixar.com (Bruce Perens) writes:
: The vote was strongly against auto-cancelling those two users.
: 
: It would have been interesting if I'd gotten a majority vote to cancel
: them: with a majority vote I probably could have gotten away with it, and
: it would have changed Usenet policy. We still need some kind of
: self-regulation system that lies between moderated groups and total
: anarchy.
: 					Bruce Perens

Newsgroups: news.admin
From: rla@netcom.com (Robert Armstrong)
Subject: UUCP mail and possibly news feed wanted in South Bay area
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 04:59:13 GMT

  I'm looking for a uucp email connection somewhere in the San Jose to
Palo Alto area.  I have a 9600 baud V.32 V.42bis modem and I've set
up uucp connections in the past so I don't expect any problems.

  You don't need to call me - I'm willing to do all the calling.

  A news feed for about 20 newsgroups would be very nice, but that's
optional.

  Even better would be a site with a direct Internet connection that
could serve as an Internet forwarder for me.  That'd be marvelous!

  The system being connected is a VAX running VMS and DECUS uucp.
But you don't need to have a VAX - DECUS uucp speaks perfectly well
to Unix machines.

Thanks,
Bob Armstrong
rla@netcom.com


Xref: sparky news.admin:7992 alt.config:6256
From: ccs@aber.ac.uk (Christopher "Jd" Samuel)
Newsgroups: news.admin,alt.config
Subject: Re: ALT.GRAPHICS: Enough already!!!
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:21:15 GMT
Organization: University of Wales - Aberystwyth - Prifysgol Cymru

In article <1992Oct9.223843.23059@oracle.us.oracle.com>,
 rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) doodled:

>Jef Poskanzer <jef@netcom.com> writes:
>
>>- Since it would require positive action on my part to stop the weekly
>>  rmgroups, it's not likely that I'll "back down".  Not so much
>>  pig-headedness as simple automation.  There are of course conditions
>>  under which I'd shut it down.  Three months without any forged
>>  newgroups would do it.
>
>This sets a bad example and leads to things like Bandy's idiot script.
>
>Here at Oracle, we honor newgroups and ignore rmgroups. That won't change
>no matter how often you rmgroup alt.graphics.
>
>Pretty inconsiderate, Jef.

As Tim has already said, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

The result of this is that we get the sort of confusion that exists with
alt.bbs.waffle, when alt.* groups get superceded by a mainstream group,
and when groups that have been renamed refuse to die, or rather turn
up in peoples junk group.

-- 
 Christopher Samuel, c/o Computer Unit, UCW Aberystwyth, Aberystwyth, WALES
  RFC: ccs@aber.ac.uk   UUCP: *!mcsun!uknet!aber!ccs   JNT: ccs@uk.ac.aber
          Deddf Iaith Newydd i Gymru | New Language Act for Wales
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: emcguire@Intellection.COM (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: Hasan B Mutlu
Supersedes: <EMCGUIRE.92Oct9183805@fuller.Intellection.COM>
Organization: Intellection Inc.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:58:45 GMT

In article <oNy3RB1w165w@vector0.UUCP> jon%vector0.UUCP@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Dazed N. Confused) writes:

   The net, as volume increases, inevitably all becomes *noise*.

DOTN predicted.  Flying saucers interfering with satellite feeds.
Details at eleven.
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>
Xref: sparky news.admin:8004 news.admin.misc:173 rec.radio.amateur.misc:17130
From: jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.admin.misc,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: No, I won't be starting an auto-canceller
Date: 16 Oct 92 11:49:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: mtholyok.Bw7q78.Fry
Followup-To: news.admin.misc
Organization: Mount Holyoke College

In article <1992Oct16.052551.25813@ssc.com> markz@ssc.com (Mark Zenier) writes:
>More neat stuff from
>Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
>
>bruce@pixar.com (Bruce Perens) writes:
>: The vote was strongly against auto-cancelling those two users.
>: 
>: It would have been interesting if I'd gotten a majority vote to cancel
>: them: with a majority vote I probably could have gotten away with it, and
>: it would have changed Usenet policy. We still need some kind of
>: self-regulation system that lies between moderated groups and total
>: anarchy.

I don't think so.  Usenet is a /functional/ anarchy.  Emphasis on
functional, i.e. /it works/.  If it ain't broke don't fix it... and
while it doesn't work perfectly, I think if you look at the general
perception of how well it does/doesn't work, you might find that a
greater percentage of people are happy with the way Usenet runs than
are currently happy with the the American (USA) democratic system of
Government.

But if you think that you can come up with a better system, all the
more power to you... Usenet isn't the only system that uses the Netnews
transport mechanism, and just as some thought even Usenet to be too
restrictive and created Altnet, you can always start "Democratic-net"
or "Dictatorship-of-the-masses-net" or "Bruce-is-king-net".  If you
really feel that more authority, of whatever form, is needed, that is
the /only/ way to accomplish it.  You will never succeed in imposing
any kind of additional restrictions on the existing Usenet.

--
Jurgen Botz                  |   Internet: JBotz@mtholyoke.edu
Academic Systems Consultant  |     Bitnet: JBotz@mhc.bitnet
Mount Holyoke College        |      Voice: (US) 413-538-2375 (daytime)
South Hadley, MA, USA        | Snail Mail: J. Botz, 01075-0629
Xref: sparky news.admin:7904 alt.config:6100
From: nrp@csug3.cs.reading.ac.uk ("Fanatical winds" Neilski)
Newsgroups: news.admin,alt.config
Subject: Re: ALT.GRAPHICS: Enough already!!!
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:20:40 GMT
Reply-To: nrp@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk
Organization: University of Reading

Seconded.  alt.graphics is getting some traffic (at least here) so why
don't we create it "officially" and have done.

(Although the newgroup messages are getting interesting!)

Crossposted to alt.config .

-- neilski

-- 
nrp@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk  \--------------------------------------------------
----------------------------\ "Oook?"  "Just a half, then."  "Oook."
"How do you manage to pay for all this stuff?  Every time somebody gives
you any money, you eat it."  "Oook."  "Amazing."                 -- Sourcery
From: emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: mailing lists to news
Date: 10 Oct 92 19:00:01 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: nigel.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

G. Vitillaro (peppe@ipgaix.unipg.it) wrote:
:  I'm looking to some "easy" way to map
: mailing lists (in particular bitnet listserv)
: on local newsgroups.

a big batch of bit.listserv.* groups are already gatewayed into netnews at
american university in washington dc, you might find it more effective to
just get a bit.* feed in and be done with it

--Ed
Newsgroups: news.admin,alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: ALT.GRAPHICS: Enough already!!!
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:31:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.090408@mccall.com> tp@mccall.com (Terry Poot) writes:

>In article <719058360.F00055@monly.wlink.nl.wlink.nl>,
>Tim.Pierce@f1.n100.z60.wlink.nl (Tim Pierce) writes:
>
>>There is an understanding (granted, a very general and loosely defined
>>one) among news administrators regarding which alt groups are
>>"properly" created and which ones are not.  
>
>Maybe among some admins, but my understanding (and apparently at least a few
>others) is that there is no such thing as an improper alt group, by definition.

I'm happy to point to alt.music.enya.puke.puke.pukeSender: though that
is an extreme example (and I think not what you're discussing).

My point is that *total* anarchy makes alt close to unusable.  One of
the reasons I remain so strong on this issue is that I perceive a
tremendous amount of potential good in the concept of the altnet, but
few people seem to take alt seriously.  That seems to be largely
because of the tremendous number of "joke" groups, which give people
the impression of "nobody cares about alt."  People don't carry alt
because it's a "cesspool."  And that, I think, is a crying shame.

Does alt need to turn into another Usenet in order to reverse that
situation?  I don't think so.  I have created every group previously
discussed in alt.config without strenuous objections.  I think that a
large number of those are either poorly conceived or misleadingly
named, but so be it.  It's not for me to decide.  I *do*, however,
categorically reject newgroups that come in without a prior
announcement in alt.config.  I need *some* yardstick for deciding
which groups to consider "proper," and this seems like a pretty
accurate way to measure it.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: lwk@engin.umich.edu (Lewis W Kellum)
Subject: Re: AmeriCast.COM campaign92 groups
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 14:47:19 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: usa

In article <1aqu04INNff4@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> warlock@ecst.csuchico.edu (John Kennedy) writes:
>In article <Zr3-d_#@engin.umich.edu> Lewis W Kellum writes:
>
>-->  I apologize if this has been asked before. Has anyone out their 
>-->  recieved the nptn.campaign92 groups? Are they legit? ...
>
>  I think I'm *almost* going to get them soon.  (;  We've been playing mail-
>tag and they said that they're swamped, but a few more shots should do it.
>

Well - I'm getting them now, and they seem legit. That is, if you call campaign literature
from the democrats,republicans, and libertarians legit.  - Woody Kellum
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst)
Subject: Re: ALT.GRAPHICS: Enough already!!!
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:14:30 GMT
Organization: The Programmer's Pit Stop, Ann Arbor MI

In article <Bw06vM.40J@alsvid.une.edu.au> mark@alsvid.une.edu.au (Mark Garrett Internet: mark@arvak.une.edu.au Phone: +61 66 20 3859) writes:
>	I know we are not all running C-news but. All that's necessary
>to stop alt.graphics is alias it to comp.graphics and then forget
>about it.

Or, just delgroup it locally, and then apply this patch to
/usr/lib/newsbin/ctl/newgroup.  This will make newgroup reject
newgroup requests for "alt.graphics" with the error message
"alt.graphics is a bogus newsgroup."  I do not suggest modifying
newgroup to bounce the mail back to the sender, since I believe the
From: line on the messages is Jeff Pozkanzer's address.

Here is the patch.

*** newgroup~	Mon Oct 12 18:11:58 1992
--- newgroup	Fri Aug  7 17:27:46 1992
***************
*** 48,53 ****
--- 48,57 ----
  	esac
  done
  
+ if [ "$1" = "alt.graphics" ]; then
+ 	reject=${reject-'alt.graphics is a bogus newsgroup'}
+ fi
+ 
  # consult control file, if present
  perms=$NEWSCTL/newgroupperm
  action=yv

-- 
Marc Unangst, N8VRH         | "There are two ways to solve this problem:
mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us   | the hard way, and the easy way.  Let's start
                            | with the hard way."
                            |   - W. Scheider, from a Physics lecture
Xref: sparky news.admin:8008 alt.config:6280
From: tp@mccall.com (Terry Poot)
Newsgroups: news.admin,alt.config
Subject: Re: ALT.GRAPHICS: Enough already!!!
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:43:52 GMT
Reply-To: tp@mccall.com (Terry Poot)
Organization: The McCall Pattern Co., Manhattan, KS, USA
Nntp-Posting-User: tp


In article <Bw6s19.Kur@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
writes:
>My point is that *total* anarchy makes alt close to unusable.  

That was not the feeling when alt was created. They didn't ask my opinion,
either, as I'd have agreed with you, but there it is. 

>One of
>the reasons I remain so strong on this issue is that I perceive a
>tremendous amount of potential good in the concept of the altnet, but

But that concept is total anarchy, which you reject. So in effect, you are
trying to reform altnet, which I personally think is impossible. You can't make
anything "stick". Poskanzer and Becker are good illustrations of this. There's
nothing "wrong" about what they are doing. How can you change that fact, when
there is nobody to say what is right and wrong.

>Does alt need to turn into another Usenet in order to reverse that
>situation?  I don't think so.  I have created every group previously
>discussed in alt.config without strenuous objections.  I think that a
>large number of those are either poorly conceived or misleadingly
>named, but so be it.  It's not for me to decide.  I *do*, however,
>categorically reject newgroups that come in without a prior
>announcement in alt.config.  

A reasonable policy to apply at your site.

>I need *some* yardstick for deciding
>which groups to consider "proper," and this seems like a pretty
>accurate way to measure it.

Some people obviously disagree. The point is you are no more or less correct
than anyone else. The flip side of "anyone can create any group at any time" is
that "nobody has to carry it if they don't want to". Unfortunately, anyone can
also send a rmgroup, and that isn't "wrong" either.
--
Terry Poot <tp@mccall.com>                   The McCall Pattern Company
(uucp: ...!rutgers!depot!mccall!tp)          615 McCall Road
(800)255-2762, in KS (913)776-4041           Manhattan, KS 66502, USA
From: news@bazooka.amb.org (Usenet News Account)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: ALT.GRAPHICS: Enough already!!!
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:13:59 GMT
Reply-To: news@bazooka.amb.org (Usenet News Account)
Organization: AMB Research Labs, Sunnyvale, CA.


-- 
    ///  Ti Kan
   ///   News Administrator for AMB Research Laboratories
  ///    news@amb.org
 //////  ...!{decwrl,synopsys,tandem,tsoft,ultra}!sgiblab!bazooka!news
///	 ...!{uunet,sun,apple,sco}!altos!bazooka!news
From: terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: ALT.GRAPHICS: Enough already!!!
Date: 8 Oct 92 01:40:49 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

In article <1159@bazooka.amb.org>, news@bazooka.amb.org (Usenet News Account) writes:
[not much, actually]

  I agree. One of the two people involved in this should know better.

  On the other hand, I had an interesting dialogue with the other party,
who asserted he wasn't changing the rmgroups to newgroups and the various
other creative alterations as well. However, when I asked him for his word
that he wasn't doing it, I received no reply. Oh well.

	Terry Kennedy		Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.bitnet	St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	+1 201 915 9381
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Internet
From: williamsca@hiramb.bitnet (Curtis Williams)
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:17:15 -0500
Organization: Hiram College
Nntp-Posting-User: williamsca

Does anyone know where I can find a copy of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the
Internet?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        *** STANDARD DISCLAIMER ***
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Curtis Williams, Programmer/Analyst
Hiram College
Hiram, OH  44234
Voice: 216-569-5314	Fax:   216-569-5462

HIRAM: williamsca         BITNET: williamsca@hiramb
                        INTERNET: williamsca%hiramb.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu

"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard, grow big,
    wear glasses if you need 'em."    -- The Webb Wilder Credo
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: root@victrola.sea.wa.us (The system god)
Subject: changing domain of system running C-news
Organization: Vince and Suzie's Underpowered PC
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 17:47:52 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

I have a USENET site at work running C-news (122291 patchdate)
that is moving to a new domain...same system name, just moving
to a new subdomain within the company.

Is there a quick thing I can do with C-news to switch the domain
(or is there nothing to be done) rather than having to rerun build
and reinstall everything ?

Also, I have to set up a temporary feed in the 'soon-to-be-old-site'.
Can I do a quickie edit of some file(s) to switch the hostname of the
site to the new (temporary) hostname ?  I'd like to basically copy the
whole /usr/local/lib/news tree and again, not have to rebuild a custom
copy and reinstall things if possible.


-- 
     ---------- Vince Skahan --------- root@victrola.sea.wa.us ----------
    Running Linux/C-news/Tin/Elm/Smail - we don't need no steenkin' MS-DOS 
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.config,news.sysadmin
From: steve@jack.sns.com (J. Steven Harrison)
Subject: MAP Help!
Organization: Systems'n'Software
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 17:51:41 GMT

Hello Netlanders!

I have been running the following command to generate a pathalias database for
mailers for years:

pathalias -l jack ./data/[du].* ./data/MyMaps|sort -f|pathproc >paths.jack

where pathproc looks like this:
# move cost field to end of line
#
sed 's/\(.*\)   \(.*\)  \(.*\)/\2       \3      \1/'|
#
# convert target domain/host to lower case
#
lcasep |
#
# sort the stream
#
sort

With the release of the maps at the beginning of the month this years old
procedure has broken. Has anyone else expereinced any trouble?

Any useful suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

-- 
J. Steven Harrison, PhD.	steve@jack.sns.com
45034 Imnaha Court		Voice:	(510)623-8651
Fremont, CA   94539-6669	Data:	(510)623-8652
Systems'n'Software            	FAX:	(510)623-8656 
Newsgroups: news.admin