HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Making the transition (was Re: milk substitutes for Jill and others...
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:59:54 GMT

Clover, I think you are doing amazingly well.  Good for you!

Back in 1990 I decided to become vegetarian (I hadn't even heard of veganism
back then) gradually, by cooking one vegie meal a week, then 2, and so on... 
But I procrastinated a lot.  Finally, after visiting the Experimental Farm in
Ottawa, I quit eating flesh "cold turkey".  It was actually a great relief to
have done so because I was never comfortable with the idea of eating dead
animals, even when I believed doing so was essential.

For the first n months I really was pretty clueless about nutrition and was
living mainly on Kraft Dinner (not even really vegetarian, contains rennet),
french fries, chocolate bars, and potato chips.  I do *not* recommend this.  I
was hungry all the time and gained 10 pounds (of cellulite, on my thighs) and
for the first time in my life had a lot of ear infections.  Fortunately for
me, I heard about _Diet_for_a_new_America_.  After reading it I felt I had to
become vegan, or at least try.  But I was still too wimpy to tell my family
because they had a fit when I became vegetarian.  So for about a year I was
vegan at home, and lacto-ovo-vegetarian when I ate out.  Eating like this it
soon became apparent that eating milk made me feel worse (I now blame my ear
infections on my higher intake of milk at that time).  So on January 5 1992 I
became vegan (except for occasional smidgens of honey, sorry Abhay) and have
not knowingly eaten animal products since then.

Ro
rwaigh@zooid.guild.org

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: ph@pencom.com (Patrick Hester)
Subject: Re: Little Tyke the Veggy Lion
Reply-To: ph@pencom.com
Organization: Pencom Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 21:16:01 GMT


given:
	1	cats are normally carnivorous
	2	Little Tyke was a vegetarian cat
	3	cats go blind without taurine
	4	taurine is only found in dead animals products
	5	Little Tyke wouldn't eat meat put in front of her

Isn't it safe to assume that Little Tyke wouldn't eat the meat put
in front of her because she couldn't see it, having gone blind from
lack of taurine in her diet?

--
Patrick Hester   ph@pencom.com   (212) 513-7777   NeXT Mail OK   =8(\/\)
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Silk
Date: 11 Jan 93 10:00:28 -0600
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1ipvcdINNpal@shelley.u.washington.edu>, sannuti@math.washington.edu (Arun Meda Sannuti) writes:
> 
> 	I was wondering if some of the ethical vegans in this group
> would share with me their feeling on silk.  Would you buy it?  Would
> you wear it if you were given it?  Would you wear silk that you had
> bought/recieved before you turned vegan?  I also think it would be
> informative if you mentioned whether you eat honey or not.  Thanks.
> 

I used to buy and wear silk blouses for work. Now I don't. The reason
is not because of silkworms. It is because virtually all silk is 
made in China. China continues to have numerous human rights violations
and there is lots of evidence that prison and child labor is being used
to produce the clothing and other items being sold in the United States. 
I do have a couple of silk blouses that I purchased a long time ago
that I continue to wear. But until China improves its human rights
record, I'd prefer to buy products made in the U.S.A, or at least 
a country that strives for democracy. 

-Mary Howard
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Cats2: Practical Advice
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:48:55 GMT

tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com writes:

>In article <altar.725567086@sfu.ca>, altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>> 
>> F.  SOME PRACTICAL ADVICE AND COMPROMISES
>> 
>> 1.  Use An Approved Commercial Vegetarian Pet-food Or Supplement
>> 
>> Now, one does not need to be a biochemist to feed a cat. There
>> are now on the market vegetarian cat foods or supplements to add
>> to a vegetarian regime (like Vegecat) where all of the above
>> consideration are automatically provided for.  These products
>> have been checked by veterinarians and animal nutritionists.

>How were they checked?  Was the study peer reviewed?  Independantly
>verified?  Were the studies controlled, double blind studies?
>How long were they conducted?  How many animals were used?  Are
>the studies repeated if the product is reformulated?  What
>was the final disposition of the animals used in the study?

>Sorry ted, but you sure glossed over that part.  Please provide 
>answers to these questions before you make such a claim.

Ted, I don't know how much of this is publically accessible,
but they did have to pass product testing regulations to be
marketed as a complete cat food, one of those requirements being
to meet the requisites for a balanced diet acording to
the most recent 1986 "Nutrient Requirements of Cats" as
set by the Committee on Animal Nutrition of the National
Research Council  (you can get a copy as this is published
by the National Academy Press).

					ted
l

>Disclaimer:     Monsanto didn't say this, I did!
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rhuls@liebnitz.ssd.kodak.com (Robbin Huls)
Subject: Re: Dairy farming (was nice cows)
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 21:40:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.015632.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> eerbl@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes:
>I mean no disrespect for dairy farmers. Hell, most of my neighbours are cattle
>farmers of one sort or another. The problem is that they don't understand and
>cannot let themselves fully empathise with the animals they treat as objects of
>commerce.

I recently saw John Robbins speak and he told a wonderful story about a
pig farmer that he visited while researching for his book.  As he was
speaking with the farmer, who made comments like "removing all you
environmentalists from the face of this earth", he noticed that the
farmer would occasionally "go away" mentally.  Finally he asked and the
farmer "where he was going" and the man told him a story about a pig
that he had raised when he was young.  The pig followed him around and
swam with him in the creek...  Then the farmer's father told him that he
had to slaughter his "friend".  So he did, and then he took over the
farm when his father died and just kept on doing what his father had
done, which included keeping these intelligent, sensitive creatures in
small stacked crates until they were sent off to slaughter.  The next
time John saw the man, he had sold the pig farm, bought some new land
and was raising pygmy pigs and selling them as pets.  I was in tears
when he finished.

Robbin
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield)
Subject: Re: Silk
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:21:33 GMT

sannuti@math.washington.edu (Arun Meda Sannuti) writes:


>	I was wondering if some of the ethical vegans in this group
>would share with me their feeling on silk.  Would you buy it?  Would
>you wear it if you were given it?  Would you wear silk that you had
>bought/recieved before you turned vegan?  I also think it would be
>informative if you mentioned whether you eat honey or not.  Thanks.


I no longer eat honey; much prefer maple syrup and some of the grain-
based sweeteners.  I also find cotton (since I'm often not thrilled
with synthetics) to be a material that provides a lot of variety in
texture and use/color/care, etc.  For the most part, silk is
something of a hassle to take care of anyway.

My advice would be that if there is a chance you would not be
comfortable with the ethics of something you participate in (by
purchasing it) -- whatever it is, look for a more acceptable
substitute.  There usually IS one and often -- as in my case --
you wind up PREFERRING the substitute.  Good luck!!

Anne

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Re: milk substitutes for Jill and others...
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 04:00:39 GMT

I have a question regadrding becoming a vegan.
 
How many of you have gone from meat eating gradually to veganism,
and how many went cold turkey (like I tried to do)?

I find that right before I menstruate I get beef - RARE beef -
cravings, but I was able to get by with only one transgression
(although it was a BAD cheat - a whopper with cheese and mayo,
oops!) and some milk chocolate.  I also ate a slice of pizza 
and a grilled cheese sandwich.  Oops! I almost forgot the margarine
I ate at Christmas - my fiance's parents cooked with it and I didn't
have the courage to tell them that it was only 48% vegetable oil
until I was leaving.  Next time, I'll bring my own vegan-safe
margarine.
 
Overall, though, that is total of the animal products that I have eaten
since December first.  When I cheated, I felt bad, and I felt that it
was a major transgression, but looking back it, I guess it wasn't so
bad, considering that I wasn't even vegetarian until Nov 31.
In fact, I even ate beef for dinner the night before my ban started.
 
So, here it is, January.  I am extending my original one month experiment
to a second month, and we shall see how long it will last.  I have a 
feeling that if I keep to it long enough, it will become a matter of habit.
 \
What do you all think?

Clover
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
This is my very first sig.file
From: jay@metran.UUCP (Jay Ts)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Silk
Date: 12 Jan 93 13:16:08 GMT
Organization: Metran Technology, Tampa, Florida

mad4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Maddex) writes:
: 
: As for a vegan silk sub, I think the best is probably rayon.  My sister used
: to work in a natural fiber store and some of the older hippies would freak on
: seeing rayon, but it's a natural fiber.  Rayon is made from surplus wood chips
: left over from paper making and stuff.

I have heard this before, but I wonder.  Isn't that like saying that
polyester is a natural fiber because it's made from crude oil?  In other
words, what process is used to convert the wood chips to cloth?  Is that
process more environmentally-friendly than the ones used for silk, cotton,
or hemp?

Is rayon naturally biodegradeable?

-- 
Jay Ts
uucp mail: uunet!myrddin!tscs!metran!jay
phone: (813) 979-9169
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: artemis@netcom.com (Michelle Dick)
Subject: Re: 2 queries (vegan katsup/vegan and kosher food)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 22:19:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.105901.2870@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>2) Mostly out of curiosity (but also partly to be sure I'm spreading
>correct information):  is there such a thing as vegan food that is 
>NOT kosher?

Yes, vegan food is generally kosher.  Vegan restaurants that advertise
themselves as Kosher have arranged for the premises to be supervised
and certified by a rabbinic authority.  For a vegan restaurant, this
supervision is much easier than for a milk or meat restaurant and I
assume the supervision fee is therefore lower.

The only real difference between a vegan uncertified restaurant and a
vegan kosher restaurant is that the kosher premises and equipment will
have been "kashered" prior to use (i.e. pots, pans, ovens, counters,
etc thoroughly cleaned with boiling water or some other acceptable
method).  If the restaurant owners are Jewish, then some legal
arrangements are made at passover and depending on who's certifying,
also on shabbat. There are a few other intricate points of kashrut
that also need to be followed.  But, nothing that you, as a non-kosher
diner, need to be worried about.

So no, it's not really a gimmick.

--
Michelle Dick
artemis@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Soy milk
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:39:10 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu







Well I bought some rice dream vanilla flavor and it tastes awful to drink it.
Maybe I still remember too much what real milk tastes like.  I don't have to 
have something that tastes exactly like milk but I'd like it to taste 
good (i'm more picky than the averate cat. 


 
   
BAlso does anyone have any ideas what to do with broccoli?  I bought some frozen
since I don't trust frew 

 I don't trust fresh produce inthe store I go to as in I find worms in 
apple s  and it always tastes horrible and is mostly all rotten when you buy 
it.   
Thanks Jill
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Ted Altar
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:02:58 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <altar.726509770@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:
>
>>Ted Altar is the most important contributor on rec.food.veg.
>
>>Since Michael Traub left, he has been the most informative
>>and needs to be thanked for that.
>
>>Let us hope he does not have to leave some day in near future.
>
>
>Again Abhay, I appreciate your generous compliment, but
>please, you must not do this to me.  I am NOT the most
>important contributor.

Ted is the most modest contributor on this newsgroup.

Abhay is the contributor most given to drawing up lists.

I am the most brilliantly witty (only mainfest from time
to time).

Paul
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Ted Altar
Date: 9 Jan 93 09:10:13 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University

In article <1993Jan08.151054.25129@eng.umd.edu> dbader@eng.umd.edu (David Bader) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan8.062121.7601@abo.fi>, abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:
>> [REPOSTS deleted]
>>
>>Abhay
>
>
>Abhay,
>  I can't understand why the readers of rec.food.veg are inflicted by your 
>never ending generalizations.  

Where was a generalisation involved in it ?

Isn't it time you stopped reposting this
>message?  There was a flame-war the last time, is that what you want again? 

Was there one ? I am good at ignoring postings I don't like, so it is
very likely that I miss the flames.

Why should there be a flame war if we appreciate an important participant ?

Is there someone who has provided more information than Ted has, in
the recent past ? 

>
>Peace,
> david
>

Abhay
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Answer to clove[24~[24~[24~*darn dle keys*
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:32:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.063644.7401@sarah.albany.edu> la1002@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
> 
>Oh, any suggestions for things I can serve my fiance's parents for brunch?
>Both are hard-core meat and potatoes, 50's style people - He hunts, she
>serves chex-mix.
> 
For that time of day maybe you could serve freshly baked cinnamon buns, or one
of those breakfast cakes with lots of apples and sticky stuff...  Sorry I
don't have any recipes, this is just what my meat 'n' potatoes father made for
me when I was home for the holidays.  (He actually bought frozen vegan bread
dough for the cinnamon buns somewhere, and then made his own filling out of
brown sugar, cinnamon, and olive oil.  I think it could have been moistened
with maple syrup instead of oil myself.)

Good luck,

Ro
rwaigh@zooid.guild.org
P.S.  What is chex-mix?
From: jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: info needed.
Date: 9 Jan 1993 22:34:36 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu


Ok, I guess I have a few questions. I'm not doing too bad at eating no dairy 
and no meat - but I'm finding that beans are disgusting tasting.  I don't like 
them at all.  Is there some way to cook them so they taste better?  

Also, I feel that I should be losing weight - I have cut out all meat and dairy
and haven't had any that I know of now for a couple weeks.  I feel like I'm 
gaining weight and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.  I have probably been 
eating more than I did when I ate meat, but I have been eating alot of rice 
and veggies and salads.  I'm starting to get really discouraged.  

Jill
From: sritacco@wet.UUCP (Steve Ritacco)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Soy milk
Date: 6 Jan 93 06:22:08 GMT
Organization: Wetware Diversions, San Francisco

Hmmm.

I just recently bought the "original lite" Rice Dream, and I was pretty
impressed by it.  It is not the sort of stuff you would want to chug from
the bottle, but it is pretty good.  I used it on a bowl of cereal and it
was fine, and then I tried to make a cafe latte with it, and that was
surprisingly good too.  It doesn't foam like real milk, but the taste
was pleasant, and the "mouth feel" was (to me) just like real milk.  I did
notice that it didn't lighten the coffee as much a real milk, but still...
it was good.

so... I vote for original lite, though I confess that I haven't tried any
of the soy milks.

Steve

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Subject: Re: More About Beans:)
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: NRL
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:37:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.153251.17886@wam.umd.edu>, sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve
Russell) wrote:
> [stuff deleted]
> 
> Also not all legumes are the same.  Some are harder to cook and produce more
> gass.  Interestingly these are the ones that were raised in the west for
> cattle feed and fertilization purposes.  Several legumes originating from
> asia were raised for human consumption are much easier to handle, are as
> nutritious, and dont lose their flavor in soaking.
> 
> Long Cooking high gass beans:
> 
> pintos, garbanzos, kindneys, black, navy, white northern
> 
> Quick Cooking low gas beans/legumes:
> 
> mung beans, adzuki beans, all lentils, all varities of split peas, blacke-
> eyed peas.
> 
> Steve R
> 
Thanks for the informative post.  I think there's a bit of misinformation
here, though, on the historical aspect --- garbanzos (and fava beans) are
Old World (i.e., from Asia/Africa/Europe), and have been eaten for
centuries (perhaps millenia?) by humans, not just as animal feed.
Similarly, pintos & similar beans are from the Americas and were eaten by
Anasazi and other native American groups. So I'm not convinced that the
"user-friendliness" division has anything to do with which were grown for
cattle feed, it's more the size of the beans (note that all the second list
are small, with the exception of black-eye peas & they aren't all that
quick, really). Also, some Indian dhals (esp kali dhal, the whole black
ones) take a really long time to cook, even though they're small. 

Corrections are welcomed --- I'm still trying to figure out the origins of
various legumes (all foods, in fact; it's a fascinating subject). If I
remember I'll look this stuff up when i get home.

Judy Karpen                "pushing back the frontiers of science"
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil  Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC USA
From: therese@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Changes at Chevy's
Date: 11 Jan 1993 18:28:12 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

About a year ago I posted a complaint about Chevy's and their "veggie
fajitas" that weren't vegetarian (they came with beans that had hunks
of ham swimming in them and rice cooked in chicken broth).  At the time,
I complained to the manager (this was in Monterey) about the name and
the fact that I was offered no vegetarian options.  He said that he
thought vegetarians just avoided red meat!  I pointed out that the beans
had ham in them so even by his definition they weren't vegetarian!  Grr.

Last week I went to Chevy's with my sister and there had been three changes
that I noted:
1.  The name had been changed from veggie fajitas to vegetable fajitas
2.  Printed in big letters across the top of the menu was "Vegetarian
    Black beans may be substituted"
3.  The rice is no longer made with chicken broth.  I asked the waiter
    about this very specifically, and he said that yes, they had used to
    be made with chicken broth but that they had changed the recipe for
    the very reason that vegetarians had complained about it!

This made me feel good.  At least at this place complaining about the
lack of veggie options on the menu seems to have made a difference.  

Therese

I am not in any way affiliated with Chevy's, I'm just a (now) satisfied
customer.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: nbb@widget.demon.co.uk (Nick Bristow)
Subject: Re VEGAN: Then don't include honey. 
Distribution: world
Organization: Widgets Unlimited
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:13:40 +0000

In article <1993Jan3.132752.10581@abo.fi> abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:

>In article <8uJswB2w164w@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> stvnolan@oneb.almanac.bc.ca
> writes:
>>la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.) writes:
>>Hmm.  I suppose you could try using a thick soymilk, and substitute honey 
>>for the rice syrup..  I've never considered it before.  If you do, try to 
>
>Sorry to interrupt. Honey is not vegetarian, and certainly not vegan.
>

Really! I know it's not Vegan but if your Lacto-Vegi Surely the distinction
between milk and honey is very thin, both being animal products which if
collected carefully do not harm the animal. I think that most peoples view
of vegetarians are Lacto-vegetarians therefore why be pedantic? If your
vegan then just say so it's no one else's fault if they do not know what
"flavour" of vegetarian you are :-).

                                Cheers,
                                        Nick.

-- 
                                |
                                |
                               \|/
           Completely Novel, Witty and Profound .sig in construction.
From: dbader@eng.umd.edu (David Bader)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Leather Alternatives: Aesop, Inc.
Date: 13 Jan 1993 02:08:43 GMT
Organization: Professional Student, University of Maryland, College Park
NNTP-Posting-Host: mountaindew.eng.umd.edu

A few months ago, I called Aesop, Inc., The Leather Alternative, for
their current catalog, and they told me that they were in the middle
of creating a new edition.  I just received this new catalog:

Aesop, Inc.
P.O. Box 315
North Cambridge, MA  02140
617-628-8030

It includes a wide selection of non-leather goods such as
socks, belts, boots (bike, western anklets, military style),
Birkenstocks (Arizona, Milano, Capri, Sporty Milano, Super Clogs),
Sandals, Rope Shoes, Hiking Boots, Casual Walking Shoes, Dress Shoes,
Pumps, Vegetarian Information (Animal's Agenda, Veg Res. Group, NAVS,
AVS, etc.) Tennis shoes, Crosstrainers, Aerobic shoes, etc.,
billfolds, purses, business portfolios, briefcases, attaches,
handbags, backpacks, etc.. [I just paged through the catalog writing
up general things...]

It looks neat, the prices are what you'd expect (the usual for the
item... nothing discount), but I think I'm going to make an order and
see what happens! 

peace,
 david

David A. Bader            
48 Avonshire Court        
Silver Spring, MD 20904   
(301) 680-3616            

Internet: dbader@eng.umd.edu