From: mbrgw@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk (R.G. Walters)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Arggggh!
Keywords: true, ouch
Date: 7 Jan 93 12:15:06 GMT
Organization: Daresbury Lab., Warrington, U.K.
NNTP-Posting-Host: seqnet.dl.ac.uk

In article <1993Jan7.000906.19081@linus.mitre.org> bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman) writes:
>In article <1ifn8mINNc5t@transfer.stratus.com> tnh@sw.stratus.com (Tim Hill) writes:
>:Dear Bob,
>:
>:     I'm sorry if you're having a bad day, but would you please stop wasting
>:network bandwidth with your flame thrower and offer us some of your wisdom
> 
>Why? Most of you don't listen anyway. See below.
>
>:on the subject Robin raised?
>:
>:     Playing your favorite methods with your favorite partner, if you open
>:2C in third seat (Chicago, they're vulnerable with 60 on) and LHO overcalls 4S,
> 
>But he asked about some strange 20+ 1NT opening. This is not the same as 2C.

"Strange"?  It's Vienna (only a bit stronger), and we use it precisely to be 
able to show this sort of hand which isn't quite worth a normal 2C opener.

>
>:what are your partner's options?  In particular, what would pass, double, and
>: 4NT show?
> 
>(1) Pass is forcing. It shows a good hand.
>(2) Double is penalty. It shows either a bad balanced weak hand or one
>that is not suited for offense in a suit other than spades.
>It is the most discouraging bid you can make.
>(3) 4NT is takeout and promises some values with reasonable support for
>at least 2 suits other than spades. It shows somewhere around 4-7 HCP.
>A typical hand will be balanced with at least 3 card support for all suits
>or at least 4-4 in two suits other than spades.
>(4) 5 of new suit shows a decent 6-bagger. It shows a minimal HCP, but
>decent suit equivalent of a weak 2-bid.
>:
>:     If your partner and RHO pass, what would you call with:
>:
>:     9
>:     KQT
>:     KQJ98
>:     AKQ2
> 
>I do not open 2C on this hand. I would not open 2C if you held a gun to
>my head. This hand has between 8 and 9 playing tricks, 3 losers and
A
>some eventual losers as well. It is not anywhere close to opening 2C
>then rebidding in a minor. It takes a lot better hand to open 2C
>when intending to show a minor suit, than it does when holding a major.
>I have said this repeatedly in this forum, but somehow the message just
>doesn't seem to get through. This is what I meant above about people not 
>listening. No matter how many times I say it, I still get people (like you)
A
>who think random 20 counts not suited to open 2NT should be opened 2C.
>Do you really think this hand is even close to having a game in a minor?

You've already made that abundantly clear. Well, if you've opened it 1D, and 
it goes (4S) Pass (Pass), what does partner's pass mean now?
It _isn't_ forcing, so what does the _net_ think is the best route to
reopening on such a sequence? 

>:
>:How 'bout with:
>:
>:     K4
>:     A62
>:     A
>:     AKQJ743
>:
>:(You would open both these hands with 2C, wouldn't you?)
>
>Over 2C-4S-P-P, I bid a simple 5C. Why is this a problem? It's the
>value bid on the hand; you have a minimum. The next move is up
>to partner.
>

And go off when partner shows up with 

xx
QJxx
KQJxx
xx

Or isn't this good enough for a pass?

Robin.
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge