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Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:40:20 CDT
Reply-To:     bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com
From:         "(Brad Kaiser)" <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
Subject:      re: Purgatory: Justice or Works?

In Tom's original post on purgatory, he wrote:

>> Maybe it means the "laity" can give enough
>> money to move God to look the other way so He will ignore the sins of
>> those still in Purgatory.

First, a definition: an "indulgence", in Catholic teaching, is a good
work which can be applied to remit, in whole or in part, the suffering
of a soul in purgatory.  The "good works" in question are things like,
for example, reading the Bible.

AGAIN: this is NOT a "gospel of [salvation by] works", since all souls
in purgatory are already saved, and are merely undergoing a period of
purification before entering the heavenly kingdom, into which nothing
unclean may enter (Rev 21:27).

Now, in answer to your comment "Maybe it means the 'laity' can give
enough money to move God ..." ... you might be interested to know that
any member of the laity who tried to do such a thing would risk
excommunication, as would any member of the clergy who dared to
participate in such an act.

The sale of indulgences was prohibited in very clear terms by the
Council of Trent in the 1560's.

>> Wasn't that one of the complaints during the
>> Reformation?

Yes, it was one of the motives for Luther's apostasy.  However, the
sale of indulgences was illegal then as well, prohibited by general
regulations against simony.  Regrettably, the regulations were not
enforced.

A general comment to you and Jesse, and anyone else caring to
question/criticize Catholicism:

>> OK, just a few questions taken from "Saint John Neumann's Catechism."

With all due respect to St. John Neumann, you guys should seriously
consider throwing your catechisms away.  God is infinite and
ineffable; all of our theology is just a feeble attempt to understand
a wondrous mystery.

In case you doubt me, ask any physicist or chemist whether we can
construct a complete, perfect, analytical quantum mechanical
description of a helium atom.  He/She will say, "no".  Guess what: the
helium atom is the second simplest atom in creation: a nucleus and two
electrons.  Only hydrogen is simpler.

If we cannot fully understand even the simplest building blocks of
creation, what does that say about our understanding of the Creator?

By looking at simple, Q & A catechisms written for children, you guys
are doing the theological equivalent of trying to learn quantum
mechanics by reading "Dick and Jane Learn About Science".

Try a modern adult catechism, like Fr. Hardon's "A Catholic
Catechism", or Lawler, Wuerl, and Lawler's "The Teaching of Christ".
From there, look at college-level Catholic theology texts, and the
teachings of the ecumenical councils and Popes.  You'll get a much
clearer idea of what non-Protestant Christianity is all about.

In Christ's Peace,

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

	  Those who trust in Him shall understand truth,
	  and the faithful shall abide with Him in love;
	  Because grace and mercy are with His holy ones,
	  and His care is with His elect.
		    -- Wis 3:9 [NAB]
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