From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD Alternative Medicine
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:33:58 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Oct13.052805.23308@netcom.com>, kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski) writes:

>Larry, I'll let your hyperbole speak for itself.

If only it _were_ hyperbole.  But I fear I understate the case.  It is hard
enough to police legitimate and well-known care providers, there is no control
at all for your "alternative" health care.

>                                                 Basically, you're
>operating under the faulty assumption that "alternative practioners"
>are the same as "quack practioners".

As was clearly implied in your original posting, they are.  You are not talking
about new treatments that have recognized advantages but are not yet wide-
spread, nor about value judgement such as midwife delivery vs hospital.  Such
things deserve discussion, but they deserve it in sci.med.  The stuff you are
getting torched for is grapefruit45, laetrile, regressing engrams on the cans,
homeopathy, acupuncture, etc, etc, etc.  I don't care how many Chinese think
acupuncture is wonderful, they are not trained scientists, and trained scien-
tists who have evaluated acupuncture and the others - have actually tried it -
all put it down to the placebo effect.  Which is hardly surprising considering
how these acupuncture points are determined, a method much in the same vein
as astrology.

Your proposed newsgroup is for quacks and their victims, I'm sure it will bring
them together.  That is what I and anyone who values real health would like to
avoid.  There is a sucker born every minute, but I see no reason to make it
easier for them to get fleeced.

>Competent, qualified health care providers meet these criteria:

> - qualified to provide care;

Qualified by whom?  By Harvard Medical School?  Or the one they started up so
they could award themselves a diploma, as Hubbard did?

> - properly licensed, certified, or affiliated (as necessary);

Licensed and certified by whom?  By some official-sounding organization the
provider or his teacher founded, or by the AMA?

> - willing to provide references attesting to practioner's skills;

References to what?  AMA periodicals?  Books to be found in the Harvard
Medical School library?  Or some quack book they or their teacher wrote
that was refused publication by reputable medical reference publishers?

> - able to determine if a different therapy is more appropriate

Another therapy in mainstream medicine?  Or just another they invented?

>   and willing to refer patient to another specialist if necessary;

To a mainstream health provider or just to a student or graduate of the same
quack institute?

> - communicative with patient about diagnosis and treatment;

Hubbard was _real_ communicative about diagnoses and treatment, but Dianetics
is still quackery of the highest sort.

> - open to second opinions from other qualified health care practioners;

Qualified by who?

> - open to discussion about other avenues of treatment;

Suggested by who?

> - charges reasonable fees.

Not even certified health providers do that.

>If you're talking about somebody who *doesn't* meet these criteria, s/he is
>not a health care practioner, alternative or not -- s/he's just a quack.

A big fancy diploma means nothing unless the school is acredited and
recognized by the current health establishment.  Hubbard created half-
a-dozen "institutions" to lend credence to Dianetics and Scientology,
it made them _sound_ real scientific and official, but anyone with half
a brain knows how scientific and official they really are.

If the sort of alternative care you propose for this group met all those
high criteria you mention they would be welcome in sci.med.  That they
are not is all the evidence I need to try and convict you in a court of
reason.

>>I'd vote against the thing no matter where it goes.
_Still_.

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want,
it is the freedom to do whatever we are able.
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