HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eric@sacae1.two.dec.com (Eric E. Westbrook  dtn 247-2449 TWO/A12)
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
Reply-To: eric@sacae1.two.dec.com (Eric E. Westbrook  dtn 247-2449 TWO/A12)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 09:22:49 GMT


In article <378@mje99.UUCP>, mje@mje99.UUCP (Mark J Elkins) writes:
|>
|>Now, I'd love to be able to send a Fax from my Unix machine - but have
|>no idea on the protocols and formats that text must be in - etc.  Has
|>anyone done any work in this area - and left the results in the Public
|>Domain area?  
|>
|>So has anyone done anything like this?
|>

I also have a faxmodem on a u*ix machine, and, coincidentially, your
exact dilemma.  In my initial attempt to solve it, I found out that 
the Free Software Foundation has a package called "netfax", which I 
pulled via anonymous ftp from prep.ai.mit.edu.

The netfax package has sources for sending and receiving faxes on modems
that support the Class 2 protocol (I'm not even sure whether mine does;
it's a Prometheus ProModem 9600 Plus and came shipped to me with *no* 
fax programming documentation).  

Unfortunately, the netfax package doesn't have any sort of front-end 
for routing modem calls to getty and fax calls to the fax software, 
which I imagine you need as much as I do.  In fact, it polls the S0 
register rather than using auto-answer (a bug with the particular 
modem they use, I believe).

Unless I find a better way (suggestions are requested), looks like I'll 
be adding a getty front end, and maybe protocol mods for my modem.  You
may wish to check it out to see if netfax can help you out.

Let me know what happens!
Eric

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric E. Westbrook                            eric@sacae1.two.dec.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------
         Any opinions expressed herein are strictly my own.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.fax:27 comp.dcom.fax:804 comp.mail.misc:1476 comp.society.futures:210
From: david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth)
Newsgroups: alt.fax,comp.dcom.fax,comp.mail.misc,misc.entrrepreneurs,comp.society.futures
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 04:35:03 EST
Organization: DAVID A. ROTH MUSIC
Reply-To: david@david.UUCP ( David A. Roth )
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4


In article <1992Apr4.000834.1705@pegasus.com> (shaw@pegasus.com), shaw@pegasus.com (Sandy Shaw) writes:
> A friend of mine, who is a communications consultant, seems to think that
> fax is of limited utility especially in the future.

How far in the future?  One year? Five years? 20 Years?
> 
> He says that all his clients that send either long faxes frequently or
> many faxes, especially to international locations, end up switching
> to other forms of communication, network, e-mail, etc.  He thinks
> that as companies use fax technology more they will gravitate towards
> the other media.

Considering that a number of offices still purchase and use memory
typewriters instead of micro computers it seems unlikely that anything
is going to happen quickly.  As was mentioned in Metatrends, the culture
can only accept a small percentage of change.  With the recent change
of the clocks for daylight savings time there are still parts of the
US (Indiana) and farmers living in other areas that continue to not
change their clocks.
> 
> I say that there are large numbers of firms that send large numbers of
> faxes all over the world and with more features and faxserver
> capabilities available, will continue to do so well into the future.
> Any opinions on this?  Any actual cases?
> 
> Is fax only the tool of smaller companies or departments, or is it destined
> to be (is it now) a prime-mover for some larger firms?

Just like memory typewriters, fax is easy to use.  You don't have
to be technical.  People who using computers on a daily basis for
posting articles, e-mail and writing various utilities to make things
a little easier are not the lion's share of people in offices.  In
spite of what the computing magazines try to imply.
> 
> 
> Sandy Shaw
> shaw@pegasus.com
> 

David
Newsgroups: alt.fax,comp.dcom.fax,comp.mail.misc,comp.society.futures
From: "Stephen Guthrie" <guthrie@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 09:16:13 -0500

In article <JLNViB1w164w@uuisis.isis.org> doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) writes:
>david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth) writes:
>> Just like memory typewriters, fax is easy to use.  You don't have
>> to be technical.  People who using computers on a daily basis for
>> posting articles, e-mail and writing various utilities to make things
>> a little easier are not the lion's share of people in offices.  In
>> spite of what the computing magazines try to imply.


I have to agree that fax machines are here to stay for quite a while.
One thing to consider is the ability for similar fax boards to pass
files.  In my particular situation I am able to send files via my
faxserver if the person on the other end has the same type of board.
The only problem with this is there doesn't seem to be any standards for
fax boards.  This means that just like e-mail I can send a file in an
agreed upon format and the user on the other end can load in into
there word processor, spreadsheet, etc. without modification.
Finally, many times we don't have articles and documents on our pc.
Therefore, we can either scan them in and then e-mail the scanned
file, or we can just run to the fax machine and put in the original.
In my opinion the later is much easier, especially for the novice.


--Steve










Newsgroups: alt.fax,comp.dcom.fax,comp.mail.misc,misc.entrrepreneurs,comp.society.futures
From: doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson)
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 19:20:16 GMT

rikitake@jrd.dec.com (Kenji Rikitake) writes:

> In article <0105009A.0b1bm1@david.UUCP> david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth) writ
> >   In article <1992Apr4.000834.1705@pegasus.com> (shaw@pegasus.com), shaw@pe
> >   > A friend of mine, who is a communications consultant, seems to think th
> >   > fax is of limited utility especially in the future.
> 
> I often see this sort of claim. And I *hope* FAX will eventually
> disappear. But I think it is not likely to happen at least in my
> country (Japan) for 20 years. The reason is simple: people in Japan
> have experienced "typing Japanese" (i.e. using word-processors) for
> less than 12 years. Toshiba invented the first Japanese word-processor
> in 1981 (correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I've seen in many
> books). The number of people actually typing Japanese is not so many.

I agree entirely for Japan. In fact, FAX in North America (which has
been around for 30 years) only caught on when the Japanese started using
it - and when the Japanese presence in the North American economy
started rapidly increasing. FAX can, in many legitimate ways, be said to
be a Japanese technology. The lack of a phonetic alphabet made 'typing'
or the use of e-mail more difficult.

There may be some very interesting ramifications to that in the future!

> My mother, 66, who was born FAR BEHIND when the computer was invented,
> is capable to use fax. But she will never be able to use computers,
> because you need to remember a lot of commands to use a computer.

I don't know your mother, but lots of people older than 66 are doing
e-mail with ease.

> John McCarthy, the father of LISP, once wrote an article called
> "Networks Considered Harmful For Electronic Mail", on Communication
> ACM December 1989 issue. A very interesting perspective on current
> e-mail infrastructures. He also mentioned about fax's advantage there.
> I recommend you to take a look at it.

I've read that article. Since that was written in fall of 1989 the
Internet has grown from 130,000 hosts to over 700,000. There is the
infrastructure! It is springing up.

Without a celebrated massive government spending programme like that
which built such things as the interstate highway system, the 'roads'
for e-mail and the address and format standardization are materializing
anyway. Not to say that governments have not made crucial and
substantial contributions - just to say that gov't isn't the mainspring
behind the growth of the e-mail 'highways' these days.

=Doug

----------------------------------------------------------------------
UUCP: uunet.ca!uuisis.isis.org!doug                Voice: 613-722-4724
DNS:  doug@uuisis.isis.org, doug@uuisis.UUCP, doug@isishq.fidonet.org
                      SKAN Communications Inc
      POST: P.0. Box 3041, Stn C., Ottawa, K1Y 4J3, CANADA 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.fax,comp.dcom.fax,comp.mail.misc,comp.society.futures
From: jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria)
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 05:02:01 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.091632.8541@news.cs.indiana.edu> "Stephen Guthrie" <guthrie@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> writes:
>In article <JLNViB1w164w@uuisis.isis.org> doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) writes:
>>david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth) writes:
>>> Just like memory typewriters, fax is easy to use.  You don't have
>>> to be technical.  People who using computers on a daily basis for
>>> posting articles, e-mail and writing various utilities to make things
>>> a little easier are not the lion's share of people in offices.  In
>>> spite of what the computing magazines try to imply.
>
>
>I have to agree that fax machines are here to stay for quite a while.
>One thing to consider is the ability for similar fax boards to pass
>files.  In my particular situation I am able to send files via my
>faxserver if the person on the other end has the same type of board.
>The only problem with this is there doesn't seem to be any standards for
>fax boards.  This means that just like e-mail I can send a file in an
>agreed upon format and the user on the other end can load in into
>there word processor, spreadsheet, etc. without modification.
>Finally, many times we don't have articles and documents on our pc.
>Therefore, we can either scan them in and then e-mail the scanned
>file, or we can just run to the fax machine and put in the original.
>In my opinion the later is much easier, especially for the novice.
>
>--Steve
>
I recently installed PerfectFAX by Perfect Byte, Inc. on our SUN
Sparc server.  The software comes with an EverFax 9600 baud modem.
After the initial problems with installing new software, etc., I
have found this product to be excellent.  We are able to
send/receive faxes from our workstations.  Faxes can either be sent
via e-mail, FrameMaker, and we can send eroff (nroff/troff files)
also.  Users are notified via e-mail of confirmation of their faxes.
Incoming faxes are spooled to the printer and the fax administrator
is notified via e-mail that a fax has been received.  I agree that
faxes will be replaced by electronic mail in the future.  However,
even vehicles have fax machines, so fax machines will be around for
quite a while.  This being the case, our package by
Perfect Byte is an efficient tool.  For those of you who would
like more information, you may contact Perfect Byte at: 800-359-070
or 402-554-1122 and ask for Stephen Caskey.  I have no interest or
any ties to this company other than a satisfied customer.
-- 
 John Gloria - jpglori@pacbell.com	
-------------------------------------------------------------
 "He that knows himself, knows others; and he that is ignornant of
himself, could not write a very profound lecture on other men's heads.
Newsgroups: alt.fax,comp.dcom.fax,comp.mail.misc,misc.entrrepreneurs,comp.society.futures
From: rikitake@jrd.dec.com (Kenji Rikitake)
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
Reply-To: kenji@komaba.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp
Organization: I speak for myself.
Date: 09 Apr 92 00:39:12 GMT

In article <0105009A.0b1bm1@david.UUCP> david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth) writes:
>   In article <1992Apr4.000834.1705@pegasus.com> (shaw@pegasus.com), shaw@pegasus.com (Sandy Shaw) writes:
>   > A friend of mine, who is a communications consultant, seems to think that
>   > fax is of limited utility especially in the future.

I often see this sort of claim. And I *hope* FAX will eventually
disappear. But I think it is not likely to happen at least in my
country (Japan) for 20 years. The reason is simple: people in Japan
have experienced "typing Japanese" (i.e. using word-processors) for
less than 12 years. Toshiba invented the first Japanese word-processor
in 1981 (correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I've seen in many
books). The number of people actually typing Japanese is not so many.

>   Just like memory typewriters, fax is easy to use.  You don't have
>   to be technical.  People who using computers on a daily basis for
>   posting articles, e-mail and writing various utilities to make things
>   a little easier are not the lion's share of people in offices.  In
>   spite of what the computing magazines try to imply.

My mother, 66, who was born FAR BEHIND when the computer was invented,
is capable to use fax. But she will never be able to use computers,
because you need to remember a lot of commands to use a computer.

John McCarthy, the father of LISP, once wrote an article called
"Networks Considered Harmful For Electronic Mail", on Communication
ACM December 1989 issue. A very interesting perspective on current
e-mail infrastructures. He also mentioned about fax's advantage there.
I recommend you to take a look at it.

>   > Sandy Shaw
>   > shaw@pegasus.com

>   David

-- Kenji
--
Kenji Rikitake // kenji@macrofield.or.jp
My mailing address in Digital Equipment Corporation Japan will be deleted
by April 20, 1992. Please contact Macrofield Corporation after April 21.
Newsgroups: alt.fax,comp.dcom.fax,comp.mail.misc,misc.entrrepreneurs,comp.society.futures
From: doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson)
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 20:18:38 GMT

david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth) writes:
> Just like memory typewriters, fax is easy to use.  You don't have
> to be technical.  People who using computers on a daily basis for
> posting articles, e-mail and writing various utilities to make things
> a little easier are not the lion's share of people in offices.  In
> spite of what the computing magazines try to imply.

While this is undoubtedly true, we must remember that we're shooting at
a moving target. 10 years ago the PC scarcely existed. Up-to-date
offices used electric typewriters. Today it is actually hard to find an
office of any consequence in which micro-computers of one sort or
another haven't replaced the typewriters to a substantial extent.

My work takes me into quite a few offices and it is quite rare, in my
experience, to see a typewriter of any description. It is more rare to
find no computer at all.

FAX will go the way of the quill pen in time. Emphasis on *time*. It
isn't going to happen tomorrow. I think the only real question is how
long, or 'when', rather than 'if'.

Just as computers have penetrated the workplace rapidly, as soon as they
become cost-effective, so e-mail will replace FAX as it comes to be
percieved as cost-effective relative to FAX. Since it *is*
cost-effective relative to FAX, its penetration of the business
environment should be rather quick.

=Doug

Xref: sparky alt.fax:43 comp.dcom.fax:824 comp.mail.misc:1529
From: mje@mje99.UUCP (Mark J Elkins)
Newsgroups: alt.fax,comp.dcom.fax,comp.mail.misc
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:25:45 GMT
Reply-To: mje@mje99.UUCP (Mark J Elkins)
Organization: Mark's Machine (Working for Olivetti Africa)

In article <680yiB3w164w@uuisis.isis.org> doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) writes:
>rikitake@jrd.dec.com (Kenji Rikitake) writes:
>
>> In article <0105009A.0b1bm1@david.UUCP> david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth) writ
>> >   In article <1992Apr4.000834.1705@pegasus.com> (shaw@pegasus.com), shaw@pe
>> >   > A friend of mine, who is a communications consultant, seems to think th
>> >   > fax is of limited utility especially in the future.
>> 
>> I often see this sort of claim. And I *hope* FAX will eventually
[all the wonderful discussions deleted]

So I have this wonderful modem at home (DSI V32bis 9624e+ - with
flashfax) but its always connected to my unix machine (3B2-400; Unix
Sys 5 Rel 3.1) for doing uucp/mail/news to a machine at work.  If I
want to send a fax, I have to disconnect the Unix machine, plug in my
DOS PC - and fire up 'flashfax' to send the Fax.  If I _knew_ someone
was about to send me a fax - I could do the same - switch on the DOS
machine ...  etc.

Now, I'd love to be able to send a Fax from my Unix machine - but have
no idea on the protocols and formats that text must be in - etc.  Has
anyone done any work in this area - and left the results in the Public
Domain area?  I'd love to send 'mail' to a fax address in my machine,
have the mailer call a translation program and end up sending a Fax.
I'd love to be able to receive a Fax, store it, copy to my cheapo
epson 9-pin, send me mail announcing the fact - etc - as well as keep
the modem open for normal UUCP traffic.  Can this be done?  I have
many interesting sources (getty's - etc) so could perhaps persuade my
'getty' to switch to a fax receiver program.

So has anyone done anything like this?


  .  .     ___. .__      Olivetti Systems & Networks, Unix Support - Africa
 /| /|       / /__       UUCP: uunet!olsa99!mje (Mark J. Elkins)
/ |/ |ARK \_/ /__ LKINS  mje@olive.co.za (Postmaster) Tel: +27 11 456 3125
-- 
  .  .     ___. .__      Olivetti Systems & Networks, Unix Support - Africa
 /| /|       / /__       UUCP: uunet!olsa99!mje (Mark J. Elkins)
/ |/ |ARK \_/ /__ LKINS  mje@olive.co.za (Postmaster) Tel: +27 11 456 3125
From: burden_d@oass.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: alt.models
Subject: 1/12th scale F1 cars
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:50:03 GMT
Reply-To: burden_d@oass.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


How many others out there build the 1/12th scale F1 series (mainly Tamiya,
but also Protar)?  I'm working on the complete set and so far have the
following:

Lotus 49
Matra MS-11
Ferrari 312B
Tyrrell 003 (unbuilt)
Honda RA-273 (re-issue)
Lotus 72D (re-issue - unbuilt)
Texaco Marlboro McLaren M23B (almost done)
Ferrari 312T
Tyrrell P34
JPS Lotus 78
Wolf WR-1
Ferrari 312T4
Renault RE20
McLaren MP4/2C (Protar)
Ferrari 126CK (Protar)

Wheel changing Mechanic (4 kits)
Engine tuning mechanic (4 kits)
Team manager (3 kits)

--
Dave Burden                                      ______--------___
Digital Equip Corp - Alpharetta, GA             /|             / |
                                     o___________|_\__________/__|
burden_d@oass.enet.dec.com          ]|___     |   |=  ||  =|___  |"
                                    //   \\   |   |___||_///   \\|"
                                    |  X  |\-------------/|  X  |\"
                                     \___/                 \___/
From: thorn@phoenix.radonc.unc.edu (Jesse Thorn)
Newsgroups: alt.models
Subject: Hobby Shops in Chicago?
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:36:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Radiation Oncology, NCMH/UNC, Chapel Hill, NC


I am going to be in the Chicago and Rockford areas next week and
wanted to check out the local hobby shops? Any recommendations? I like
1/48th WWI & WWII aircraft, 1/35 armour, resin kits, vac-u-forms, books, etc.

Thanks,
Jesse
From: mfcdbarn@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Darryl K. Barnes)
Newsgroups: alt.models
Subject: Gundam Models for Sale
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:06:00 GMT
Organization: UB

Hello

I have several Gundam models kits for sale in scales from 1/2000 (ships)
to 1/144 and 1/100 Mecha.

To name just a few.                           

                          1/144 Original Gundam
                                   "     Gun Cannon
                                         Zaku (Sha)
                                         Zaku (Green-standard)
                                         Zucock
                          1/144 Gundam Mark II
                                Gundam High Grade Mark II
                                Shiki (Sha's mech from Z-Gundam)

                          1/100 Original Gun Cannon
                                         GM

                          Various kits from 0080

                          1/100 Gundam from Sha's Counterattack
                          1/144 Gundam  "    "         "
                          1/144 Sha-Zabi

                          1/60 Original Gundam (with Core Fighter)
                          1/60 Zaku (can be built as Sha's Red Zaku
                                     includes small figure of Sha or
                                     Zeon mobile suit pilot.

Prices range from $4.00 for the original gundam 1/144 scale kits to $25.00
for the 1/100 Scale Nu-Gundam to $35.00 for the 1/60 scale kits.

The Mrs. wants me to make some room in the house.  Please reply by E-mail
if you are interested and we can talk terms.

Darryl K. barnes
From: mdavis@alex (Matthew Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.models
Subject: Vector W2
Summary: Looking for Vector W2 kit... does one exist?
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:35:39 GMT
Organization: Univ of Texas at San Antonio

Are there any commercially available kits of the Vector W2?  I'm interested
in pretty much any scale....

Please e-mail replies... if there are a great number, I will summarize and
post.

Thanks!
-Matt

From the electrons of another manga lover...
***************************   Hikaru:  I'm your biggest fan! 
*    Matthew A. Davis     *  
* (aka Prince Nematocyst) *   Minmei:  Oh, do you listen to my songs?
***************************
*   Anime is cool, but    *
*    Manga is cooler!     *
***************************
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Newsgroups: alt.models
Subject: Re: 1/12th scale F1 cars
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:00:24 GMT
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd

In <6493@shodha.enet.dec.com> burden_d@oass.enet.dec.com writes:


>How many others out there build the 1/12th scale F1 series (mainly Tamiya,
>but also Protar)?  I'm working on the complete set and so far have the
>following:

Yup, count me in.

>Lotus 49
>Matra MS-11
>Ferrari 312B
>Tyrrell 003 (unbuilt)
>Honda RA-273 (re-issue)
>Lotus 72D (re-issue - unbuilt)
>Texaco Marlboro McLaren M23B (almost done)
>Ferrari 312T
>Tyrrell P34
>JPS Lotus 78
>Wolf WR-1
>Ferrari 312T4
>Renault RE20
>McLaren MP4/2C (Protar)
>Ferrari 126CK (Protar)

I'm impressed. Where'd you get the Matra? Original issue?

I've got 2 of the reissued Lotus 49s, a 72D, BT44 unmade,
a JPS 78 and RA 273 to be remade, a Protar 312T unmade.
I had a 312T4 from Protar, not bad, but not as good as Tamiya.
I also have the Porsche 935 - a big kit.
Somewhere around I have the Airfix Blower Bentley, but that
one needs some work.

I've been frantically collecting any 60s or early 70s F1 or
sportscar/prototype that I can get, in 'most any scale.
So far I have the Porsche 917, 512S, McLaren M7a, BT33, 
a Lotus 49B (to be remade). A Mini Cooper S (that my brother 
dropped), and probably more, but I can't remember at the
moment.

I'm waiting for Tamiya to redo all their 1/12th kits.
I would queue for hours to buy a Lola.

>Dave Burden                                      ______--------___
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
 The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 'but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?' R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
From: joar@stud.cs.uit.no (Joar Ankarstein Larsen)
Newsgroups: alt.models
Subject: QUESTION;new TAMIYA PT BOAT
Date: 9 Apr 92 07:20:37 GMT
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway

I was wondering what the prise is for the new River pt Boat?
You see,in Norway it is a bit to expensive.
Newsgroups: alt.models