From: mike@isgtec.com (Mike Sellers)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: CHRISTIANITY vs CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS
Summary: It comes in multiple flavors, some of them stupid
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:18:43 GMT
Organization: ISG Technologies Inc., Mississauga Ontario

gclapp@javelin.sim.es.com (Glenn Clapp) writes:
> In article <1992Apr13.114903.488@yvax.byu.edu> mark@yvax.byu.edu writes:
> > muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
> >> The Christian Jesus is God as man and died to pay the penalty of death
> >> for us.  "For the wages of sin is death"  He did this because it is
> >> impossible for us to be sin-free.
> >> 
> >	And that's the "Mormon" Jesus.  That's the simple, plain and clear
> >truth of the matter.
> 
> Oops, not quite.  Is not the mormon jesus a created being (first born
> son of god and one of his wives and brother of Lucifer)?  In Christianity
> Jesus IS God incarnate, not created by God.  Also, in Christianity, 
> Jesus died for ALL _our_ sin, not just Adam's "original sin."

First, this is getting pretty ridiculous.  Do those of you pretending
to represent all "Christians" have *any* idea how wide ranging the
ideas of things like the Trinity are, even within mainstream Christian
churches?  Take a look around before you start trying to exclude people
based on *your* image of what it is (talk about the "philosophies of men"!).

Second, LDS theology states that Jesus was the firstborn (spiritually)
of God the Father.  No one really knows how literally the "born" part
is, if there is any "mother" involved, or what.  People have various
hunches, but there is no LDS doctrine on this point.  (I know I've said
all this before, but some people seem to glaze over the things they 
don't want to read.)  Jesus was, and is, the *only* one who atone for
all of our sins (I don't know _where_ you got the idea that we think
he only atoned for Adam's sin!).  
  The issue of his pre-mortal and post-mortal divinity is not entirely 
clear to us, in that we do not understand how he could be divine without 
having a physical body.  Nevertheless, this is what we have been taught, 
in the Bible and elsewhere.  We do believe that Jesus is part of the 
Godhead, that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all united as God,
though there is a lot we don't know there either.  The Bible is not
too helpful on some of these points (yes, we're reading the same
verses you are).

  I realize that some Christians claim to Know It All, and claim that
Jesus is God the Father incarnate.  However, they have a hard time
answering questions like:
 - Who did Stephen see as he was dying (why two beings?)?  
 - Who spoke when Jesus was being baptized, and why did he use 
   the language that he did (my Son)?  
 - Why did Jesus call this supposed other part of himself Father?  
 - Who did Jesus pray to?  
 - Why does John say that "the Word was with God"?  
he three-in-one-being camp has  a hard time with questions like these, 
and yet some in that camp for some reason feel that they are the arbiters 
of what is and isn't Christian.  The most ironic part of course, above and 
beyond the mental gymnastics they must perform to wiggle around such 
questions, is that Christ himself said "whoever is not against us is for 
us" and warned of those who would create schisms and contention.  I cannot 
believe that this "*YOU'RE* not a Christian" fervor would be embraced by 
He whom these same people claim to serve.

> | Glenn Clapp                          |  gclapp@javelin.sim.es.com        |

--
                    Mike Sellers       mike@isgtec.com
                        User Interface Team Leader
                    ISG Technologies, Toronto, Canada
            "Actum ne agas" -- Do not do what has been done.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc