HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: L'Chaim
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:26:23 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

***********************************************************************
L'CHAIM                       ISSUE # 227                   PART 6 OF 8
***********************************************************************
                                CUSTOMS
***********************************************************************
          Why,  when Tisha B'Av (the ninth  of the Hebrew month of  Av)
occurs  on Shabbat, as  in this  year, do  we push  the fast  off until
Sunday?     A public display of mourning is not permissible on Shabbat.
Tisha B'Av  is the day on  which we commemorate the  destruction of the
Holy  Temples. Fasting  and  observing the  customs  of Tisha  B'Av  on
Shabbat, then,  would  be public  mourning  which is  not  permissible.
***********************************************************************
                       A WORD  FROM  THE DIRECTOR
***********************************************************************
       Tishah  B'Av commemorate  the destruction of  Jerusalem and  the
Holy Temple will be transformed into festivals and days of rejoicing.  
 This  past year, shortly  before the conclusion  of the fast  of Tisha
B'Av-- which was  actually observed on  the tenth of  Av (just as  with
this year)--the  Rebbe unexpectedly  delivered a short,  inspiring talk
about the imminence of the Redemption.     The Rebbe completed his talk
with the following  words: Had  we merited, the  complete and  ultimate
Redemption would  have come even before Tisha  B'Av. And then the tenth
of Menachem Av would have been marked in a completely different manner.
For whatever reason, a reason that cannot be understood, G-d decided to
hold back the Redemption, and thus  the tenth of Av was associated with
fasting, "And the tenth  will be holy." This will, however,  be quickly
followed by the  singing of the  tenth song of  the Jewish people,  the
song of the Redemption. May this be in the immediate future.      After
the conclusion  of the fast and  the evening prayers, as  the Rebbe was
leaving  "770," he  began singing  a melody  his father  would  sing on
Simchat Torah. This generated singing and then dancing by the thousands
of chasidim and visitors in the shul.     May we merit that this  year,
Tisha  B'Av be celebrated as a festival  and day of rejoicing, with the
coming of Moshiach, NOW!                                               
   Rabbi Shmuel Butman
From: josip@src.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Fascism Reawakens in Croatia, Charges Jewish Leader
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:55:01 GMT
Organization: Systems Research Center, Maryversity of Uniland, College Park

Following our discussion on how Serbian propaganda has been used to justify
war by charges about "fascist Croats", "fundamentalist Muslims", etc., a
strategy developed by Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic which made the
former Yugoslavia a killing ground, Mr. Stojanovic responded by lenghty
personal attack.

In article <1992Aug19.131321.14887@husc3.harvard.edu> stojanov@husc8.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:
> [...]
>Nice last passage.  But empty, except falsehoods.
>
>Milan N. Stojanovic
 
Whoever cares to see my response, which is long and boring, should
switch to reading soc.culture.yugoslavia ...

Josip
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:49:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.181046.9215@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>Actually, the Orthodox understand it this way.  As do many other
>Jewish groups.  God is completely without form.  This is stated
>explicitly in the "Yigdal" prayer: "Ain Lo D'moot Hagoof, v'aino goof"
>- "His body is not dead, for He has no body"  (I'm sure this is

D'moot (or D'moos) means semblence, form, or image.  THus the
sentence reads.

He has no appearance [or form] of a body, and He is not material
(body in the sense of matter).

THe diference is that many pagans considered the god to be an
immaterial being that appeared to its worshippers as a speicific
being.  Thus He is not matter as we know it and does not even
appear to us in any shape.

>translated wrong - my Hebrew is a bit rusty could someone correct
>this?) 
>-- 
>   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Reply-To: horen@rs.com
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:24:25 PDT

In article 3562@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM, nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.131828.10261@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:
>>In article 17390@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM, nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>>>In article <-#!nfbp.yosi@netcom.com> yosi@netcom.com (Yosi Almog) writes:
>>>>
>>>>What about you, do you think there is any importance for a jew to live
>>>>in Israel?
>>>
>>>You are asking the wrong person. However I will be honest with you and tell
>>>you my opinion. If you ask the question "Does a Jew have the right to live
>>>in Israel?" I would answer "A Jew have the right to live anywhere in the 
>>>world and so does anyone else". As far as is it important, I would say I don't
>>>know simply because I am not a Jew.
>>
>>Well, then, do I, as a Jew, have the right to live in Mecca? Do you think that
>>I have the right to go up onto the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, into the
>>Al-Aksa mosque, and worship in my Jewish way?
>>
>>Be honest.
>
>Well, I will be honest with you. If you tell me as a non-Jew that I am welcome
>to live anywhere in the World except that I am not allowed to enter a 
>synagogue or live in a certain area in Jerusalem that is sacred to Jews,
>I will gladly accept that. Not allowing non-muslims to live in Mecca 
>or go up onto the Temple Mount is a religious belief. You can do it if
>you convert to Islam and I think you don't have plans for that. 

Can I, then, say that all of Israel is sacred to Jews, and that Muslims
cannot live there unless they convert to Judaism?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 17:54:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Rubin, it's lucky you are not a Greek mythological figure, because you
are clearly guilty of the crime of hubris, the penalty for which
was pretty severe.

:-)
From: ae@sei.cmu.edu (Arthur Evans)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Headaches during major fasts
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:02:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: sei.1992Aug19.130259.8464
Organization: Software Engineering Institute

D. C. Sessions (dcs@witsend.tnet.com) says
>>  In <1992Aug12.194536.20509@cbnews.cb.att.com>, ask@cbnews.cb.att.com
>>  (Arthur S. Kamlet)  wrote:
>>  # Anyone had a headache on Tisha B`Av?  Or Yom Kippur?
>>  # 
>>  # Might be caffeine withdrawal.   Causes headaches.
>>  # 
>>  # If you are someone who has to have a daily shot(s) of caffeine,
>>  # consider cutting back a week or so before a fast day.  It could
>>  # really reduce headaches.

For me it's surely caffeine.  Some 10 or 15 years ago I read an article
in _Moment_ by Rabbi Richard Israel who pointed out this problem.  Since
then, my wife and I have made it a point to reduce our tea consumption
during the week before Yom Kippur, so that by the holiday we can
confortably go from dinner to dinner without difficulty.  Since
instituting that change, the sick headache that we used to have
regularly during the afternoon has never reappeared.  I recommend this
approach.

The suggestion on liquid makes sense.  I wouldn't know as I've always
made it a point to drink plenty of liquid before the holiday.

Art Evans
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Smoking during major fasts
Date: 16 Aug 92 15:45:37 GMT
Organization: KESHERnet International - Dallas, TX

In article <isaac.713685613@numbat> isaac@numbat.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Isaac Balbin) writes:
>
>I saw people who ex-haled into a bottle before Shabbos and used that bottle
>throughout Shabbos.


This is a joke, no?  I would imagine that anyone so strict on keeping the laws
would also be strict on the fact that smoking is halachically forbidden!


-- 
| Aaron D. Schmiedel            |  All my opinions represent what is right  |
| KESHERnet International       |  and true.  Just ask me....               |
| The Jewish Computer Network   |       <aaron@kesher.lonestar.org>         |
| Voice: (214) 239-1941         | ...uunet!convex!egsner!sdf!kesher!aaron   |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE EAST
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
	<1992Aug20.121545.23966@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:56:11

In article <1992Aug20.121545.23966@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>   In article <1992Aug18.152950.26710@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
>   nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>
>   >>                          The Bush Record
>
>   >>The Bush Adminstration has gravely harmed our relationship with Israel.  It
>   >>has:
>
>   >>    o Pressured Israel to make once sided concessions in the
>   >>      peace process
>
>   >     * Pressured the Arabs to make concessions too.
>
>   Other than coming to the peace talks, please name one concession the Arabs
>   have made.

The Arabs have let the Israelis dictate who is to be on their
negotiation team.  This is not just a practical matter of prohibiting
the use of the talks by known terrorists (such as Arafat).  This seems
a major concession by the Arabs.

>   >>    o Ignored the cruel and crippling economic boycott of
>   >>      Israel by its Arab neighbors, and disregarded other
>   >>      roadblocks to peace
>
>   >     * The Economic boycott will end once peace is achieved
>   >       and the Palestinians have their own homeland.
>
>   Why should anyone believe this?  After all, the boycott was in place
>   _before_ 1948 when Israel became a state.

The singular example of Egypt breaking both the diplomatic and the
economic boycotts demonstrates that the two have in fact been
correlated.  That is why one should not discount out of hand the
possibility of more general Arab-Israeli trade after the successful
conclusion of peace talks.
--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
From: de@moscom.UUCP (David Esan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Bris
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:34:47 GMT
Reply-To: de@moscom.UUCP (David Esan)
Organization: Moscom Corp., Pittsford, NY

In article <VyDRPB8w164w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu writes:
>From: yy@corner.wpb.fl.us
>To: burks@seena.eecs.umich.edu (Timothy Burks)
> 
>SO>the ritual?  Doing something symbolic for baby girls?  Or
>SO>is there already a strong Jewish tradition that honors
>SO>female Jews... in kind of a "different but equal" way?

I meant to reply to the original article, but got waylaid by work and trying
to wade through the Yugoslavia, and OCR flame wars.

While in the Orthodox community there is no official function on the birth of
a girl many people have some sort of welcoming party.  

Now the actual circumcision is necessary, but the party afterwards is really
optional.  Since we had had a nice party for each of our boys britot we felt
that if we should ever have a girl we should give her a party as well.

When, lo and behold, child number 4 was a girl, we scheduled a welcome party.

I went to shule and named her at the proper time (and resisted the suggestions
of my boys to name her swamp-monster).

The advantages to a welcome party over a bris party are many.  You can schedule
for when you like, say Sunday afternoon, as opposed to the 8th day after birth.
By not being tied to a specific day, you can schedule for a time when the baby
and the parents are doing better (Mom has recovered from birth, Dad from trying
to be Mom and Dad).


-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -->     David Esan      de@moscom.com  
 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:14567 talk.religion.misc:14349 talk.politics.misc:40856
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.religion.misc,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Vatican, Israel and Hidden Children
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:41:13 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.

In article <4123@bimacs.BITNET> rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg) writes:
>A friend of mine in Canada heard Yosef Burg, the former minister of
>religious affairs in Israels, speaking in Toronto on relations between
>Israel and the Vatican.  Commenting on the Vatican's refusal to
>recognise Israel, he asked what the problem was.  After all, even
>though Israel has not been recognised by the Vatican for about forty
>years, the Jews have not recognised the Vatican for the last 2000. :-)

Recognizing the Pope as a person speaking for God, no.  Recognizing the
Pope as worldly ruler of an area of land, however, is another story.  The Pope
doesn't have to recognize anything _religious_ about Israel, just to recognize
its existence as a country.
--
I am of course experienced in teaching and have read the writings of Socrates.
    -- Ed Nilges

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
From: allen@golem.ssc.gov (Michael Allen)
Subject: Re: CYLOR -- again
Reply-To: allen@ssc.gov
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:19:18 GMT

>>>>> On 14 Aug 92 15:40:29 GMT, dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions) said:

In article <765198d3161879t84@witsend.uucp> dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions) writes:

D.> Every so often somebody points out that CYLOR is either redundant or
D.> else a gratuitous insult to non-O rabbis.  It admittedly has a nice
D.> ring to it, but in the interests of cooling the flames I (modestly)
D.> suggest the substitution of:

D.> CCHA = Consult Competant Halachic Authority

D.> which is, after all, what we really mean.  (Your local rabbi may not
D.> be well-versed in your minhag anyway, right?)

How about:
CYLAWIEHATPOHAATTOSFMR(WRIFS)UT
=
Check Your Local Authority Who Is Expert In Halachah And The Process
Of Halachah As Accurately Transmitted Through Our Sages From Moshe
Rabbenu (Who Received It From Sinai) Until Today

:-) :-)
--
===================================================
But those who toiled knew nothing of the dreams of 
        Those Who Planned;                         
And the minds who planned the Tower of Babel       
        Cared nothing for the workers who built it.

	-Metropolis
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: josip@src.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric)
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history
Followup-To: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Organization: Systems Research Center, Maryversity of Uniland, College Park
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:14:10 GMT

A note: This is not about Jewish cultur.  Read if you're interested,
        followup to soc.culture.yugoslavia.

In article <1992Aug12.033756.17979@cco.caltech.edu> simic@pollux.ccsf.caltech.edu (Petar Simic) writes:
>
>	Yet, part of the (deeper) reason Serbs in Bosnia and Hercegovina
> rebeled so strongly, is also easy to understand. They, have been victims
> of the real Holocaust in these areas, and they associate their worst
> nightmares with the possibility that the world might force them to live
> in another Croatian & Muslim State. This will come about in two steps 
> (they fear):
> [...]

This argument about Serbian fears has been going on for over a year.
And yet, non-violent methods of dealing with Serbian fears were
repeatedly rejected by Serbian leadership.  

Last fall, Serbia was the only republic to reject the EC peace plan, 
which would have guaranteed rights of all nations in former Yugoslavia.  
Given the recent events, it is especially clear that "fear" is only 
an excuse for "conquest".  Complicity of Serbian President Slobodan 
Milosevic and his media in exploiting Serbian fears in order to
advance their own political agenda has been well documented.

Don't get me wrong: Serbian fears should not be ignored.  But they must
not be an excuse to perpetrate the racist notion that while Serbs cannot
live with or under anyone else, non-Serbs would have to be dominated by Serbs.
There were (and still are) non-violent methods for assuring Serbs,
and their fears are NOT an excuse for this carnage.

Regards,
Josip
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Are there any truly kosher butchers?
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:43:07 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Aug12.143348.3657@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> jgoldber@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>
>   A weird thing happened to me when I went to get a chicken yesterday.
>   The store owner wouldn't sell it to me until I had told him what
>   torah I had learned that day. I told him Pesachin 49b, and so got
>   the chicken. Anybody know how this idea is further developed?

Interesting!  I wonder, if you said you hadn't learned any, would you
be treated to an d'var Torah by the shopkeeper?  If so, I kinda like
it.
-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Egg Creams (was Re: Proof of the Decline and Fall)
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:28:21 GMT


  For years I've heard about this great New York delicacy called an
  "egg cream," and it turns out to be simply an ice-cream float
  *without the ice-cream!* Another great disappointment.

  (Isn't this more fun than OCRQ?)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Auswich and $$$???
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 19:22:13 GMT

In article <559@kesher.UUCP> aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel) writes:

#I read today in the Texas Jewish Post (a real rag of a "newspaper") that the
#keepers of Auswich are saying that it will cost $42 million to keep the place
#running as a museum.

I read that in an Israeli paper a few months ago. It seems the place
is falling apart, and a major reconstruction operation will be
nedeed to preserve it. The problem is not so much with the 
extermination installations themselves (which were dynamited by
the SS before the liberation of the camp and are in ruins, except
for the gas chamber of Krema I) but in the barracks and the
places that house the belongings of the victims.

#So now what?

Well, the Germans promised they would fund all, or most, of the project.
Let's hope they mean it.

-Danny Keren.
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Proof of the Decline and Fall
Date: 14 Aug 1992 17:06:16 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin

Well, as if we didn't have enough proof already that Western civilization 
is in a decline, this morning at my local bagel shop I saw not only 
bottled egg creams, but bottled STRAWBERRY egg creams.  What is the 
world coming to?



********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************
From: acohen@cs.ucsd.edu (Ariel Cohen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Israeli abbreviation?
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:11:33 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

Article 45473 of soc.culture.jewish:
From: 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Israeli abbreviation?
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:33:33 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH

timk@meaddata.com (Tim Klein) wrote:

> ...
>
> Some banks in Israel use the abbreviation "B.M." in their names.
> (At least, I assume they are banks.)
> 
> For example,  Bank Leumi Le-Israel, B.M.
> 	      Bank Hapoalim, B.M.
> 
> What does this abbreviation stand for?

Bowel Movement? :-)

Seriously now - it stands for Be'eravon Moogbal which means Limited 
(in Hebrew). It is common practice for Israeli financial institutions 
to use transliterations instead of translations of names in their English
documents and forms. 

BTW, Bank Hapoalim = Workers Bank, Bank Leumi Le-Israel = Israel National 
Bank.


-- Ariel
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Looking for Universities in Israel...
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:24:55 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <1992Aug19.181105.23491@scott.skidmore.edu>, ssteigma@scott.skidmore.edu (stephen steigman) writes:
>
> Will someone be able to help me with a little request.....
>
> I'm hoping to spend my spring semester of '93 in Israel, and am
> currently looking into Universities and colleges in Israel.
>
> I am an Arts Administration major looking for classes in both Music
> and Business, but also for classes in Judaic studies, etc.  I do need
> though to concentrate on Music and Business.
>
> I would also be interested in a school which would help me to set up
> an internship with an Israeli Orchestra, chamber group, etc.
>
> Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.  Please e-mail to the following address:
>
> ssteigma@skidmore.edu
>
>
> Thanks in advance....
>
> Stephen Steigman
> --
> =====================================================
> Stephen H. Steigman   INTERNET: ssteigma@skidmore.edu
> Skidmore College      VOICE:    (202) 416-8108
> Saratoga Springs NY		


For information on university programs as  well as work programs (WUJS, Sherut
La'Am, Project Otzma, and professional internships) and combined
kibbutz/university study programs, contact the toll-free number of the Israel
University Center in New York: 800-27-Israel


Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: sephardic anecdotes (was Re: become jewish ?)
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:46:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.143817.11555@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:

>All of this is my personal experience or those of close friends
>in the USA.  Here, Sephardim have been assimilating in roughly
>the same ratios as Ashkenazim.  Note, I am 42 and times have
>changed somewhat.

>3) Sephardic neighbors of mine accepted the Ashkenazi spouses
>of their children, so long as the children would be brought
>up in a Sephardi Synagogue, learn Ladino, etc.

If the spouses were all women, this is perfectly reasonable according to
Halacha.  If there was a mix (some men and some women), then it is a
matter of pride in tradition, something I've noted is lacking more and
more often in n-th generation American Jews (as n gets large).
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish