HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Path: strath-cs!str-ccsun!warwick!uknet!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!gatech!bloom-beacon!eru.mt.luth.se!kth.se!sunic!liuida!isy!lysator.liu.se!ceci
   From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson)
   Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
   Date: 15 Apr 92 18:41:02 GMT
   References: <1992Apr10.102209.22158@osf.org><1992Apr10.130407.29177@cl.cam.ac.uk><NICKH.92  Apr10161517@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU><JIM.92Apr13110259@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk> <NICKH.92Apr13131104@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU>
   Sender: news@isy.liu.se (Lord of the News)
   Organization: Lysator Computer Club, Linkoping University, Sweden
   Lines: 28

   Isn't there something like the German informational right to
   self-decision (informationelles Selbstbestimmungsrecht) in the UK? The
   German right to information self-decision is valid aswell for
   computerized data as for traditional card-index systems. It states
   that authorities musn't collect or trade information about the
   citizens without their expressed consent.

No. Local authorities in the UK are obliged to sell their electoral
register to anyone who wants to buy it.

		Jim
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: When must general elections be held?
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:12:36 GMT
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

In article <1992Apr13.160725.18826@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>Would someone explain the parliamentary rules governing when
>general elections are held?  I know that usually the governing
>party gets to call the shots, unless they lose a vote of no
>confidence, but there must be more to it than that, or else
>a party with a huge majority could stay in power indefinitely.

Parliament lasts for a maximum of five years.  For instance, the new
Parliament will be sworn in on April 27th 1992, so the next general
election must take place before April 27th 1997.  Only the Queen
has the power to dissolve Parliament.  The Prime Minister can ask
the Queen for a dissolution at any time before the five years are
up; she could in theory refuse, but in practice this does not happen,
so that the Prime Minister effectively has the power to call an
election whenever he likes.

--
Guy Barry	Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 | University of Cambridge
		  Fax: +44 (0)223 334678 | Computer Laboratory   
	   JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl | New Museums Site, Pembroke Street
        Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk | Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: rna@leland.Stanford.EDU (Robert Ashcroft)
Subject: Re: The Decline of Britain (was Re: Great Britain as a malfunctioning democracy)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 22:02:20 GMT

In article <2fUz02aK10T.01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> czl30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) writes:

>Actually, isn't the Economist part of the Rupert Murdoch empire these
>days? The Sun definitely is, and its Scottish edition was telling its
>readers to go for independence (ie vote SNP to split the anti tory vote)
>while the English editions were saying the opposite.
>
>Chris Lee

No, no, no, no, no!  The Economist is 50% owned by the Financial Times,
which is in turn owned by Pearsons.  By the way, those people who think
that the Economist is a Tory rag should cogitate on the fact that the FT
endorsed Labour, and that the Economist damned the Tories with faint praise.

The other 50% of the Economist is owned by some trust.

RNA
From: rap@tcom.stc.co.uk (Richard Porter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Manipulative election broadcasts
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:23:10 GMT
Reply-To: rap@tcom.stc.co.uk (Richard Porter)
Organization: NT Europe Limited, London N11 1HB.

In article <1992Apr2.155245.6828@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk
(Matthew Huntbach) writes:

>Previous Conservative election campaigns have centred on the
>defence issue with emotive appeals very much like the one you
>report. It's worked very well for the Conservatives - in the
>last two elections I canvassed plenty of people who told me
>they didn't believe in much of Conservative philosophy, but were
>supporting them on the grounds that the other parties were
>"weak on defence". It remains to be seem whether it'll still
>work in the current world situation - my feeling is that it
>won't.

It shows how easy it is to create a totally false impression despite
the glaring facts. If it hadn't been for Thatcher withdrawing British
submarines from the South Atlantic the Falklands war might never have
taken place. That little false economy cost hundreds of lives and
billions of pounds.

BTW, do you think it is wise for Paddy Ashdown to go on about the
possibility of a minority government trying to struggle on, and the
Lib-Dems then bringing it down? That line of attack could well backfire.

Richard Porter
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Gas stoves
Date: 12 Apr 92 17:03:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: osf.1992Apr12.170353.4784
Reply-To: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Organization: Open Software Foundation

In article <40rjxvf.sue@netcom.com> sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>(Ernest Adams) writes:
>>probably still grown by Farmer Brown using methods that haven't
>>changed significantly since the invention of the plowshare in the
>>14th century.
>
>Yeah, and they still milk cows by hand and... Sheesh!!  You have
>a very quaint view of the rest of the world outside of the US!!

Sue, Sue, aren't we forgetting the s.c.b. Implicit Smiley?  Chill!

Talking of farming, has Shula farrowed yet?
-- 
David Brooks				dbrooks@osf.org
Systems Engineering, OSF		uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Is Holohan a dweeb?
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:25:28 GMT

Scott Horne writes:

	Andrew Merritt writes:

		Scott Horne writes:

			One other thing:  Don't swear by the _OED_.  
			See what it has to say about the "correct" 
			pronunciation of `key'.

		Could you expand on this comment?  The pronunciation given 
		looks normal to me (ki: (where ':' stands for the similar 
		looking IPA character), with the i: sound the same as the 
		'ea' in bean).

	The last time I checked, there was a note claiming that the 
	"correct" pronunciation was [kei], pronounced like the name of the 
	letter `K'.

I cannot believe that Mr Scott Horne of Yale has ever opened the Oxford
English Dictionary. If he had he would know that the OED has no interest
in "correctness." It does not pontificate, but merely examines use. What
they do say about the pronunciation of "key" is quite contrary to Mr Horne's
claim. It is as follows (I have expanded out the abbreviations, but it is
otherwise verbatim).

	The modern pronunciation is abnormal.  The other Old English 
	words ending in -ae&acu.&asg. have uniformly modernized as 
	clae&acu.&asg. clay, grae&acu.&asg. grey, gray, hwae&acu.&asg. 
	whey; and that key had the same vowel as these in Middle English 
	is proved not only by the frequent spelling kay, but by its 
	constantly riming with day, way, say, play, etc.  This was 
	evidently the standard pronunciation down to the close of the 
	17th century; Dryden has the rime with way more than once in one 
	of his latest works (1700).  On the other hand, we find even in 
	the 15th century a (northern) spelling kee; and in Scottish 
	manuscripts of the same century the form key (plural keis) shows 
	that the vowel in that dialect was not the same as in day or clay; 
	in somewhat later Scottish (16th-17th centuries) the identity of 
	the vowel with that which gives modern pronunciation is established 
	by rimes. In modern Southern Scottish also, key has the same 
	diphthong as be, me, we, dee, see, tree, etc., proving that it must 
	from an early period have had the same sound as e&mac., ee had at 
	the time.  The verb weigh has the same history in Scotland, but in 
	England remains.  The modern pronunciation thus appears to be of 
	northern origin, and it is difficult to know how it came into 
	general English use.

Truly wonderful what an online dictionary and a bit of cut-and-paste can
do.

						Francis Muir

francis@sep.stanford.edu
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: MAJOR WINS MAJORITY!!!
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:52:58 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <1992Apr16.101932.14400@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>Waldegrave has been shuffled out of the way into Chancellor
>of the Duchy of Wales, or some similar sinecure, which basically makes 
>him a high-paid gofer.  

Ooops, not quite right obviously, as Wales isn't a duchy.  Lancaster,
maybe?  Cornwall?  Anyhow, my first guess gives the correct sort of
impression, even if it's wrong in a minor detail.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
From: jackson@soldev.tti.com (Dick Jackson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Gas stoves
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:16:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: ttidca.34376
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.

>In article <pwe.702655289@slipknot> pwe@slipknot.mit.edu (Paul W. Emery) writes:
....
>She'll have bigger problems with the flour, which never seems to
>be quite right in the US - different kind of wheat or something.

Very true -- you've put your finger on it.  Even if I go to a local
"French" bakery (where I assume they try to do the right thing) and buy a
loaf that is nary an hour old, it is still of indifferent quality compared
with the real thing.  A couple of years ago I visited England after a long
time away.  The taste of the bread there was a revelation -- I remembered
how bread shold really taste.  Any flourologists out there care to explain
how the Merkans have managed to de-flavor the stuff so effectively?

Dick Jackson
From: bob@castle.ed.ac.uk (Bob Gray)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The Decline of Britain (was Re: Great Britain as a malfunctioning democracy)
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:55:30 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh Parallel Computing Centre

ravis@axion.bt.co.uk (Richard Avis) writes:
>her/his way. The classic example of this effect was the Poll Tax - dreamt up on the
>back of a fag packet in the PM's office in about five minutes, with the disaster

It was dreamed up by the Adam Smith institute. An extreme
right wing group of self styled "libertarians". The type of
people who want everyone to conform to their idea of
freedom, even if that means destroying everything in the
process.

>1) The virtual disappearance of any latitude for movement at county and borough

Everything to be decided at the centre, and planning and
decisions handed down the layers of beurocracy.

>2) The stacking of NHS management and hospital trust committees with `our'
>people - making them a rubber stamping mechanism for any daft scheme.

All government organisations staffed with loyal party
members. All public utilities to be run as monopolies by
similar loyal party members.

>3) Politicisation of the Civil Service - to the point where a government of any other

See above.

>4) The 10 fold increase in Government's advertising over the last 13 years and
>the tendency for it to look more and more like propaganda.

From the ministry of Information.

>5) Banning of unions at GCHQ (and the practical destruction of unions period). 
>I have never understood this one and even the CBI has argued against much 

See the "loyal party members" comment above.

>Some of these things are indeed indicative of a one party state, and let's face it

Exactly. The policies forced through by Mrs T and her
supposed right wing government bear more resembelance to
those expressed in "Das Kapital" than in "Wealth of Nations".

>what the tabloids keep telling them they should be, along with the 
>tory propaganda and red scares.

That is the funniest, and most ironic bit of the lot.
	Bob.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: dweeb?
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 08:49:02 GMT

In article <amvjca#.sue@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
<In article <1992Apr12.002852.21905@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
<
[About residents of the US:]
<>Two or three of the quarter-billion (or
<>quarter-milliard :-)) of us eschew the vile orthographic revisionism of
<>Noah Webster.
<
<I hope you are correct in stating that there are only two or 
<three of you.  Sickening suck-up Anglophilic Yankees are grotesque
<aberrations, and should be kicked in the head at regular intervals.

I'll thank you not to call me a Yankee:  that's a term I reserve for people
like you.

Anglophilic?  You're barking up the wrong tree.  My hatred of Britannia
is surpassed only by my hatred of the United $tates of Amerika.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
From: albion@bnr.ca (Alan Buchanan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,uk.politics
Subject: Re: Rampant paranoia (was Voting slips: what happens to them,DANGER!)
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:31:22 GMT
Reply-To: alanbu@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd, Ottawa
Originator: albion@bcrks63


In article <3920@mercury.brunel.ac.uk>, xxxxajh@brunel.ac.uk (Alan J Holmes) writes:

> 
> Ain't you never heard of the Official Secretes Act?
> 
   "One's DNA will never be revealed"  ??





--
Alan Buchanan       Bell-Northern Research, Ltd       Ph.: (613) 763-2750
Silicon Design      P.O. Box 3511, Station C          Fax: (613) 763-3970
  Methods           Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1Y 4H7  

alanbu@bnr.ca        

        Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.
                         - William Butler Yeats
From: jlloyd@cc.uow.edu.au (Jonathan Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Inclusion of expats in UK elections
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:46:13 GMT
Organization: University Of Wollongong

albion@bnr.ca (Alan Buchanan) writes:

>In article <1992Apr10.193459.1828@osf.or

>On the subject of ploys, has there yet been a judgement on the effect
>of MT's inclusion of us ex-pats?

>I took the Liberality (sic) of registering through Conservative central
>office and then voting according to conscience (or whatever).


>                                                    Alan

I reckon (and I might be wrong) that inclusion of expats in the election
register wil have had little effect.
The Labour party was dead against it I know. Their argument was that lots
of "rich" tax exiles and retirees living overseas would be the main group to
benefit. Assuming that most of us expats are naturally conservative.
Anyone following this newsgroup will know that not to be the case.

It seems to me here in Australia that most Brits living here who have the 
right to vote in UK elections if they can be bothered (and most can't), are if
anything Labour supporters, having come from "working class backgrounds"
mainly in the north of England, Wales, and Scotland.

Most expats who leave UK leave because they have had enough of the weather
and the crappy wages which seem to reward mainly middle men and ad execs.
Many could'nt give a toss who runs UK!

I think when the votes from expats are actually singled out, we will find
that only a fraction of those entitled could be bothered to make the effort.

********************************************************************
** These views are my own and do not reflect upon the policy *******
** or views of the University of Wollongong, only of a young *******
** welshman in a land down under ---Cymru am Byth ******************
********************************************************************
Phone +61 42 213018     Fax +61 42 213112       Email J.Lloyd@uow.edu.au
From: djd@alveston.sybase.com (dan debrunner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Marmite in S.F. Bay Area?
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:29:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: sybase.19506
Distribution: ba
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <1992Apr13.173752.26498@novell.com> rbailey@wc.novell.com (Robert Bailey) writes:
>
>I have a friend who is having serious Marmite withdrawal problems. Is
>there a place in San Francisco, or nearby, where she can get some?
>
>Thanks
>Robert Bailey
>rbailey@wc.novell.com

[Distribution (hopefully) changed to ba.]

Most food stores near where I live (the Haight in SF) sell marmite,
but usually it's hard to find. They seem to place it near the baking
stuff, I guess because it says "yeast" on the outside. One of my
American house-mates almost used it for baking bread once when he
ran out of yeast before being put off by the aroma!
Also the jar is a different shape to the usual British one.

Also, Cost Plus behind Pier 39 sells Marmite plus other a few other
British foods (Cadbury's Chocolate Fingers :-).

Dan.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:6657 alt.politics.british:30
From: rjc@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Richard Caley)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british
Subject: Re: The Decline of Britain (was Re: Great Britain as a malfunctioning democracy)
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:14:58 GMT
	<1992Apr15.090252@axion.bt.co.uk>
	<1992Apr15.212054.18977@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Organization: Centre for Speech Technology Research

In article <1992Apr15.212054.18977@leland.Stanford.EDU>, Robert Ashcroft (ra) writes:

ra> The idea behind the poll tax was to make local councils
ra> responsible for the (sometimes) enormous amounts of money they
ra> were spending.  

Who told you this? It _is_ the line which the Tories tried to drown
out oposition with as they backpedaled, it bears all the relationship
to the truth one would expect under such circumstances. 

The poll tax was pushed by Scottish Tories who were afraid of the
property revaluation which was due to increase their rates bills to
something more reasonable. It was taken on enthusiastically by central
office who saw it as a way of reducing local council responsibility to
their constituents by increasing the power of cewntral government over
local budgets. 

The everybody pays bit was an obvious misdirection since it is easy to
come up with systems where everyone pays something but which are not
cripling to local councils and a gift to the middle classes at the
expence of the poor. 

--
rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk			_O_
					 |<
From: matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi (Matthew Faupel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: When must general elections be held?
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:32:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: matthew.MATTHEW.92Apr16142845
	<1992Apr13.171236.6290@cl.cam.ac.uk>
	<NICKH.92Apr13153213@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU>
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications, Cambridge, UK

I don't think this is quite what the original poster intended by their
question, but I thought I'd mention it as no-one else has.  The election
has to be on a Thursday, though I don't know whether tradition or law
dictates this.


Matthew
--
---* Amnesiac the Wizard *------------------* matthew@uk.tele.nokia.fi *---
 Opinions expressed here are not those of my company.    | NB. ntl02 is EN
 They're not even my own; I plagiarised the lot of them! | TEE EL ZERO TWO
---* matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi *------------------* Matthew Faupel *---
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Marmite in S.F. Bay Area?
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:24:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: sgi

In article <1992Apr13.173752.26498@novell.com>, rbailey@wc.novell.com (Robert Bailey) writes:
|> This may be a FAQ, I don't usually read this group... 
|> 
|> I have a friend who is having serious Marmite withdrawal problems. Is
|> there a place in San Francisco, or nearby, where she can get some?

I get it at Safeway.  When they're out, Pier One Imports carry it,
as well as some amazing stuff called Vegemite, made out of wormcasts
so far as I can tell.

jon.
From: dpl@aber.ac.uk (David Philip Langstaff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The Green Party
Date: 15 Apr 92 09:42:03 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

>In article <1992Apr13.130210.24037@cs.brown.edu> ST402679@brownvm.brown.edu (Simon Bandler) writes:
>>I was just wondering, from these fields afar remote, as to what what to those
>>Greens in this most recent election of April 9. Do they now command such little
>>support as to not justify even a mention on the net ? Under 1% ?
>>
>>I dont think they are about to start a new revolution, but surely their message
>>should still be considered seriously.

Here in Ceridigion the Greens had a good election. We'd decided last year
sometime that we wouldn't stand a candidate of our own, rather to support
Plaid Cymru, who qualify as Green on a number of key matters; preference
for local economy, devolved power etc, etc. Luckily this commitment to 
devolved power extends into the party machinery allowing local parties
to make arrangements at a local level.


The seat before the election was a fairly safe LibDem, with the sitting MP
having been in the house since 1974 with a majority of 4000, in the 1987
election Plaid came 4th & the Greens 5th, getting about 2000 votes between
them.

The joint campaign really worked, Jonathon Porrit came down to endorse the
PC candidate and Greens were out canvassing with plaid on the doorsteps.
We got a lot of people talking about the campaign, and the presence of a few
English speakers nailed the lie about PC being english-haters, even if I did
get ticked off by a couple of voters for not being able to canvass them in
Welsh !

The result of all this: 1 Plaid/Green Mp (Cynog Dafis) currently waiting 
to take up his seat in the house and a lot of very surprised & happy people
in this part of Wales. The result was the third highest swing in the whole
of the UK.


The moral of the tale: If opposition parties talk to each other and work
out their common ground well in advance of elections great things can be
achieved.

Cymru am Werdd

-- 
Dave Langstaff | Janet:dpl@uk.ac.aber.cs | Disclaimer: All my own work. 
Any views expressed are those of the author alone. | Phone:(0970)622838 
After-life, After-shave, don't hold with any of it, bleugh! - Sir Henry 
If Ceridigion can vote properly, what happened to the rest of the UK?
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: MAJOR WINS MAJORITY!!!
Date: 13 Apr 92 09:55:02 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <1992Apr10.202526.1@acfcluster.nyu.edu> axd7104@acfcluster.nyu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.144725.2121@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>> 
>> I don't understand why people believe this.  It was this government
>> (and particularly the Lawson budget of a few years ago) that put us
>> into it.  In the past 13 years, Britain has been falling further and
>> further behind in the EEC 'league tables' of economic performance.  (I
>> think only Portugal and Greece are worse, at this point -- that's
>> nearly right anyway, may have missed someone.)
>
>Oh, please.  In case you haven't noticed, the WORLD is in recession
>right now.  The UK, The USA, Japan...things are bad all over.  There's
>barely such a thing as an "English economy" anymore.  There's just one
>big economy, and it flows up and down.  This recession will end, the
>economy will grow again, then another recession will come about and
>fade away, ad infinitum.  

I've noticed the world situation.  The point is that the UK has been
slipping faster than most of the (industrialized, at least) world.
Thirteen years ago, the UK was near the top of most comparative EEC
tables; now it's near the bottom.  Maybe the whole world *is* going to
hell in a handbasket, but that doesn't mean that the UK needs to lead
the way.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132