From: pwu@oreo.ai.mit.edu (Peng Wu)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: 88 Integra/Clogged exhaust system
Date: 26 Sep 92 23:27:54 GMT
Distribution: usa
In-reply-to: hchang@mott.seas.ucla.edu's message of 22 Sep 92 23:49:29 GMT


    From: hchang@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Hai Chang)
    Subject: 88 Integra/Clogged exhaust system
    Date: 22 Sep 92 23:49:29 GMT
    
    Thanks to those who offered suggestions to my original posting about the
    clogged catalytic converter, muffler and Acura dealer.
    
    The ordeal isn't over yet for this poor car.
    
    History:
    60K major service + timing belt + water pump
    72K clogged catalytic converter + muffler
    Car now has 72K on it.
    
    Last Friday, the car died (everything turned off) on the freeway.       
    The electronic timing module (computer chip) was faulty causing car
    to die when the chip overheated....cost of chip replacement $250.
    
    Murphy's Law is killing the Acura...everything goes bezerk after the
    70K extended warranty expired.
    
New cars are not necessarily doing better.  The major difference is that you
have to pay after the warranty is over.

    And that's not all...it turns out that the incompetent Acura mechanics
    had installed the new muffler we paid for onto someone else's Integra!
				  ^^^^^^^^^^^      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^        
    This wasn't discovered until 2 days after we thought we had a new
    catalytic converter and muffler.
    
    So I wonder if the continued tremendous back pressure caused by the clogged
    muffler could have had something to do with the electronic timing
    module failing?
    
It is always possible that the circuit was wrongly opened, shorted, etc.,
during or after the repair, resulting in an injured chip.  Heat from the
engine and exhaust system is also a possibility if the chip is located near
one of the heat sources.  The chip may suffer from mechanical damages.  Or
improperly installed if it was removed during the repair.

I would usually assume it is a bad luck that a chip burned out, but with such
incompetent mechanics, I would look at it very closely, everywhere they could
have possibly touched.  If you have to replace the chip on yourown, have it
done somewhere else.  If you can do it yourself, finding a junk yard or
rebuilt replacement is what I would do.

However, if the old muffler was clogged, it may have damaged the new CC by
creating an abnormal engine working condition and overheating it, similar to
the way the old CC was killed.  If the dealer won't replace the CC right now,
you should ask for a written warranty covering a period acceptable to you,
including all diagnosis/misdiagnosis, labor, and emergency expense resulted
from CC failure, and watch the CC closely.  You want misdiagnosis coverage
because it could be very difficult to diagnose CC failures (see the story at
the end).

    Can anyone beat this Acura horror story?

Only dealers themselves know.  I believe there are many undiscovered.  

Once I went to a guy who claimed he is good at diagnosis, fixing problems
Sears and the like could not.  He give me a $500 (TSP $110 + ECT $70 + Tune up
+ Labor) estimate based on misdiagnosis with possibly $250 (Gas pump) follow
up if the first $500 does not correct the problem.  Then, an AAA recommended
garage insisted on that the timing chain was broken but wouldn't do the job.
They recommended to replace the engine.  Guessing that I would sooner give up
the car then replacing the engine, they volunteered to junk the car for me.
In fact, they told me later that they wanted to keep the car for themselves.
The next is an AAA recommended dealer who insisted on that the engine was bad
but cannot venture even a guess about what could possibly be wrong.  They were
very happy to introduce me to a sales person so that I can trade in the car.
They changed the oil without telling me first, that's right, on a car they
thought should go to a junk yard directly.  They cracked a spark plug by
tightening it over 100 Fxlb but they said they used a torque wrench.  None of
the parts mentioned needed replacement (other than the cracked spark plug).
In fact, my car is still running with them now, and the car is running fine.
The problem?  The CC was blocked.  The cause?  A dirty filter on the EGR
control solenoid and possibly problematic CC design.  The car is a Topaz in
case you want to know.