HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: masseyj@NOVAVAX.NOVA.EDU (James Massey)
Subject: NJStar vs. MOKE
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:37:25 GMT

I have been playing with both for about six months now, & I am beginning
to come to the conclusion that NJStar is better.  It certainly is easier,
though neither is easy in the English language word processor sense.
MOKE 2.1 is commercial; NJStar can be ftp-ed from a number of places,
though I can't for the life of me remember which (someone else is bound
to tell you here).  MOKE 2.1 is $69, NJStar is $49.

"/" /_,
Jim Massey
Nova University
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: jfriedl@TUBBY.MACH.CS.CMU.EDU (Jeffrey Friedl)
Subject: Re: FAQ: word lists available ?
Reply-To: jfriedl@cs.cmu.edu
Organization: Omron Corporation / Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:09:51 GMT

TMKAA@FITKJES2.BITNET (Kauko Hamalainen) writes:
|>  I am trying to locate a file containing japanese/english word pairs
|>  for vocabulary practice. Even a small seed would help,

On monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (130.194.1.106) in pub/nihongo you'll find
Jim Breen's "edict" which has a small list that might be of use to you.
There are other things in there as well that you might find of interest.

|>  I plan to put it behind a home-spun exercise program and enlarge it
|>  myself with time.

If you can run perl, I can let you have a program that both helps search
edict and kanjidic (Jim's database of kanji info), as well as quizzing...

	*jeff*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Eric Francis Friedl   jfriedl@cs.cmu.edu -or- jfriedl@omron.co.jp
Omron Corporation, Section RZC, Shimokaiinji, Nagaokakyo Kyoto 617, Japan
Visiting researcher to the Mach Project, Carnegie Mellon University
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: nomura@zen.uta.edu (Seiichi Nomura)
Subject: mtfuji nntp server ?!
Organization: Univ. Texas at Arlington, Arlington, Texas
Distribution: sci
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:26:06 GMT


Does anybody know what happened to the mtfuji nntp server 
(mtfuji.gw.u-tokyo.ac.jp) ? It does not seem to carry 
recent fj.* articles for a while although it still accepts
connection.

--

  -------------------------------------------------
  Seiichi Nomura ($@LnB<Lw0l(J)
  Mechanical Engineering Department  nomura@zen.uta.edu
  University of Texas at Arlington
  Arlington, Texas 76019 0023        +1 817 273 2012 (voice/fax/msg)
From: vchan@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Victor Chan)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: MAC jis reader anywhere?
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 20:54:53 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

I'm looking for a Mac program that will read/translate JIS files and 
allow me to print them to a postscript printer as well.  I'm running a 
Mac IIci with 5MB Ram and system 7.  The printer is a Laserwriter IIg.
I appreciate any help and if any replies can be e-mailed to me as I have 
only sporadic access to reading the posts.

Doomo arigatoo.

      B.anzai   |B  T|  Victor Chan - Consultant to BAKA
      A.nime    |A  E|  E-mail: vchan@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
      K.lub of  |K  C|  Subscribe to BAKA no baka^[$@!V%P%+$NGO</!W^[(J
      A.lberta  |A  H|  Hey, Full Moon Story available to members!
           :  :  : : :::STATION z e b r a GRAPHIC d e s i g n
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: What word is this??
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:31:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.220407.25507@Csli.Stanford.EDU> hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.202040.25821@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>>	In Kawabata's Sho no syousetu (palm of hand stories)
>>	in the story "Natu to Huyu" on page 3 there is a word,
>>	"haehairazu" (with the characters for hae "fly" (the insect)


	Quite right in your correction, this is a glaring mistake on
	my part.  (Would you believe a typo?) 


>>	and "hairu" (enters)).  Is this a screen door?
>
>Not knowing the original, the best I can guess is that it should
>be read as "hae-irazu"; and identical to what is more commonly


	Right.  I even have the furigana, and thus no excuse.


>known as "hae-tori-gami".
>Haetorigami is a roll of paper hung from the ceiling, with
>sticky substance (and possibly some attractor substance) on both
>sides so that a fly that touches it gest caught.


	Ahh, fly paper streamers.  I never would have guessed (never
	having seen them).  Much more in tune with the times, that is.


  
>After a few days with a number of flies on it, it's quite an ugly sight.


>I don't think you can find them much nowadays.
>
>By the way, "neko-irazu" is the name of anti-rat pesticide tablets.
>Literally, this means "cats not needed".
>If my above supposition is correct, note the asymmetry in the naming --
>here, it is flies that need get rid of.


	Quite interesting.  Are there any other examples of this? 
	(can't imagine what they'd be for.. Birds, maybe?)


>In this, I think your "screen door" may be equally valid.
>Perhaps if you provide the context, I can do better.


	First, thanks for your help so far.  

	Here is the context:

	itu mo nara, nabe no huta wo tottari, 
	<always, [he] would do things like lift the pan lids,>

	hae-irazu wo aketari sita ue ni,
	<?hang fly strips.. and on top of this,>

	soba he kite Kayoko no yakikata ga doo no koo to kousyaku 
	tokoro de aru.

	<come stand next to her, and lecture Kayoko on her way of cooking.>

	
	I really guessed "screen door" or "screens" because of akeru.  
	But I really like the fly-strip idea (it makes a lot more sense),
	but what's the proper idea, then?

	Thanks for your comments, assistance.



-- 
Attempts to lessen the burden of proof in rape | Why not put me in your kill
trials are violent assaults on civil rights.   | file?  add: "/: rsrodger/h :j"
  =====boycott=is=coercion=is=censorship=is=closed minded=is=cowardice=====
Pyramid schemes are illegal unless you're the US government.| Evolution works.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: MKALTUN@TRITU.BITNET (Ismail ALTUNCU)
Subject: Re: What is the duty of UN?
X-Unparsable-Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15: 40:30 TSI
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:53:38 GMT

 Hi all, Larry;

The address of Boutros Gghali is absolutely right. This address is actually
his fax addres. If you send any mail to him, he will receive your mail as a
fax message. As you see with the userid this is his personal mail (or fax)
address. I have send him a mail and received a mail report (like a fax report)
'your mail have been succesifully sent to fax nnnnnn number of Boutros Ghali'
And got a message like this.

I got also some reactions due to sending previous mail. This is a humanities
problem. This must be interesst in every one as humans  or aren't you?
Wanted share this problem with ppl on this as a member of this list.
good luck, all nice things for you.
ismail
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura)
Subject: Re: What word is this??
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:12:15 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1993Jan27.031039.9562@Csli.Stanford.EDU> hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga) writes:
>In article <1993Jan27.024502.8929@Csli.Stanford.EDU> I wrote:
>>In article <1993Jan27.013125.8721@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>>>	Here is the context:
>>>
>>>	itu mo nara, nabe no huta wo tottari, 
>>>	<always, [he] would do things like lift the pan lids,>
>>>
>>>	hae-irazu wo aketari sita ue ni,
>>>	<?hang fly strips.. and on top of this,>
>>>	...
>>
>>Ah! Now I see.
>>I was wrong, it's not haetorigami (fly paper streamer?).
>>
>>I don't want to rob credit from Tetsuya Nishimura (who accidentally
				  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's me!

>>mailed my his solution instead of posting it), so I'll wait till
>>he posts.   What a suspense!! :-)
>
>Yet I can't resist (besides correcting "my" to "me" in the above).
>
>So some hints: The idea of a screen door was much closer; hint 2: a tent.
>
># The person who can figure this out from sheer imagination is
># highly appraised.
>

	Thank you Mr. Hiraga and I'm sorry for my hitting "R" instead of "F."
	The referent of the word in question seems to be a folding mesh net
	with which you cover food on the table.  Yes, the thing which usually
	has a four ribs and opens like an umbrella without a center shaft.

	I myself didn't use it to cover the food on the table but played with 
	it sometimes covering myself :-) or "catching" friends and brothers.

	When you open it you pull the string coming out of the top since it has
	no shaft like the one on an umbrella.

	Ooooh, I haven't seen or used one for a while...
	Natsukashii mukashi ga yomigaeru....

					Tetsuya Nishimura
					(I'm not THAT old, yet!... am I?)

>-YH
From: oi@cs.meiji.ac.jp (Hitoshi Oi)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Japanese softwares ftp cite in UK
Date: 22 Jan 93 02:19:43 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Meiji University, Japan.
In-reply-to: oi@cs.meiji.ac.jp's message of 21 Jan 93 04:52:32 GMT

Thank you for all those responded to my question.
They told me kuso.shef.ac.uk (143.167.25.1) has Japanese softwares.
--
$@=PLa$jB);R(J
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: What word is this??
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:02:47 GMT

In article <1k52u2INN89m@shelley.u.washington.edu> yoichi@carson.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii) writes:
>hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga) writes:
>>So some hints: The idea of a screen door was much closer; hint 2: a tent.
>>
>># The person who can figure this out from sheer imagination is
>># highly appraised.
>
>I think I've seen this instrument at my obaasan tutor's house
>long time ago.  So _that's_ what it's called. :-)  
>
>Hint 3 would be (if I'm correct): table.


	<continuing the "What word is it" thread>

	I, too, am awaiting the answer sent to Yuzuru Hiraga
	(as mentioned in his post) from Tetsuya Nishimura, but 
	in the meantime I got (in email) a pretty good description 
	of what it might be:  (excerpted)

		'Hai-cho' (which come from Hae-cho) is a kitchen
		 cabinet which has screen door and screen sides
		 to keep inside dry and fly-free.

		'Hae-yoke' is an inflatable dome-shaped 
		 table cover made of screen. 'Hae-yoke' is used to protect
	 	 foods on table against flys.

	This last one sounds about right.

	Thanks to all who responded so far:
	Yuzura Hiraga (got the thread moving) 
	Youichi Hamazaki (who sent me a more detailed version of the above) 
	Yoichi Ii (hints?  20 questions?)
	Tetsuya Nishiyama (the post we seem to be waiting for) 

	Thanks to everyone.


-- 
Attempts to lessen the burden of proof in rape | Why not put me in your kill
trials are violent assaults on civil rights.   | file?  add: "/: rsrodger/h :j"
  =====boycott=is=coercion=is=censorship=is=closed minded=is=cowardice=====
Pyramid schemes are illegal unless you're the US government.| Evolution works.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: tsait@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Theodore Leonard Tsai)
Subject: Re: Looking for a Japanese Word Processor For MS-DOS
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:39:20 GMT

In article <21JAN93.22118397.0093@VM1.MCGILL.CA> BFLV@MUSICT.MCGILL.CA (BFLV) writes:
>Could anyone tell the FTP addresses where I can find Japanese word
>processors for MS-DOS or Windows ?  ThanX!
>
>
>                                               M.Y.

Me too!  Me too!
Ted Tsai
tsait@rpi.edu


Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: huttar@HP750.ITG.TI.COM (Lars Huttar)
Subject: (none)
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:33:40 GMT

> If I want to say "don't forget Tienanmen Square", is it "Tenanmon wa
> oboenachatta ikemasen" or "oboenakucha"?

"oboenakucha ikemasen" (the latter) is right.

Lars Huttar               |  Fish Common in Japanese Diet,
huttar@hp750.itg.ti.com   |  Pork Prevalent in American Senate.
(Opinions herein are not  +----------------------------------------------------
necessarily those of TI.) | $B!V%=%i(B
 $B%h%$%H%h%$%d%^%+%I%C%3%$%5%N%;!W(B-- $B:y@n(B $B@54](B
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: ltm@cns.nyu.edu (Laurence T. Maloney)
Subject: FAQ
Reply-To: ltm@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 08:14:35 GMT


Hello. I'm a beginning/intermediate student
of Japanese (3rd semester). I'm interested
in finding out about software that would
let me wordprocess and print, and software
that would let me browse some of the fj
groups.
Platforms: SUN SPARC OpenLook [UNIX+X]
	or  IBM Clone [Windows 3.1 or DOS 5]
	or I'd consider buying a MAC II if
	the Japanese software were especially
	good.

I've been reading this group for two weeks
and I've seen a lot of useful information
go by, but I'm pretty much a beginner at this.
Perhaps there could be a FAQ containing 
reviews of common products and freeware
and recommenations for various platforms.

E.g. what do I have to do on an English
language MAC, IBM PC, SPARC?
Is kterm all I need for a SPARC? What packages
go together?

If you'd like to send reviews direct to me
I'd be happy to assemble a FAQ and pass it
on to whoever it should be passed on to.

thank you for any advice,
L



Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: TMKAA@FITKJES2.BITNET (Kauko Hamalainen)
Subject: FAQ: word lists available ?
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:27:00 GMT

Excuse a novice on this list, but I have what I feel is bound to
be a "Frequently Asked Question":

 I am trying to locate a file containing japanese/english word pairs
 for vocabulary practice. Even a small seed would help,
 I plan to put it behind a home-spun exercise program and enlarge it
 myself with time.

Another FAQ: Is there a FAQ list of answers on the language anywhere ?
             No archives at MITVMA, it seems.

Yours,
Kauko Hamalainen
From: jonwd@uwtc.washington.edu (Jon Wiederspan)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: MAC jis reader anywhere?
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:54:40 GMT
Organization: Technical Japanese Program
NNTP-Posting-Host: harajuku.tjp.washington.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d16
X-XXMessage-ID: <A7895BE8B803CA3F@harajuku.tjp.washington.edu>
X-XXDate: Mon, 25 Jan 93 16:57:12 GMT

In article <7DZwXB2w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> Victor Chan,
vchan@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca writes:
> I'm looking for a Mac program that will read/translate JIS files and 
> allow me to print them to a postscript printer as well.  I'm running a 
> Mac IIci with 5MB Ram and system 7.  The printer is a Laserwriter IIg.
> I appreciate any help and if any replies can be e-mailed to me as I
have 
> only sporadic access to reading the posts.

ASLKConvert will convert JIS to SJIS for you so you can read it on a
Macintosh.  It is available at ftp.uwtc.washington.edu.

Jon Wiederspan
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au (Jim Breen)
Subject: Re: (none)
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:55:14 GMT

hbarnes@ST6000.SCT.EDU (Hal Barnes) writes:

[Thanks, Hal, for the nice things you say about the goodies on monu6.]

>You'll notice that none of these files include japanese words written
>in romajii (ie, roman letters) - they're all in japanese.  I think this
>is because japanese words in romajii don't capture the precise japanese
>pronounciations.  

The reason I have eschewed romaji is more fundamental. In Japanese literacy 
romaji plays no role whatsover. I believe that anyone taking Japanese
language study beyond the trivial level MUST come to grips with kana
and kanji, and the sooner the better. As I say in the .doc file for 
JDIC:

 All the Japanese displayed by JDIC is in kana and kanji,  so if you cannot read
 at least hiragana and katakana,  this is not the program for  you.  The  author
 has no intention whatsover of producing a version using romanized Japanese.

>For myself, I think I'd settle for approximations
>in pronounciation to make it a bit easier to get started, but that's
>the way it goes.  I think you could romanize the onyomi and kunyomi
>readings in your program, but I haven't had a chance to play with that much.

Pronunciation is not the issue. If you take care, you CAN transliterate
the Japanese syllabary quite precisely into a vowel/consonant system. (Of
course you need to be aware that "shi" or "si" is not pronounced the 
same was as someone in Tennesee would pronounce the first syllable of 
"shit", but that applies equally to pronouncing French, German, .....)

No, learn kana. It's worth it.

[I hope I have not triggered an outbreak of the Holy Romanization War.
But then, I was not championing either Hepburn or Kunrei, I was
damning both.]

-- 
Jim Breen                           JIS:$B%8%`!!%V%j!<%s(J
Department of Robotics & Digital Technology. Monash University. 
PO Box 197 Caulfield East VIC 3145 Australia (ph) +61 3 573 2552 
(fax) +61 3 573 2345  AARNet/Internet:jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au
From: am748@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Glenn Lindamood)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Data Analysis Software for the Macintosh
Date: 23 Jan 1993 18:07:07 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


Hello! 
     I have a friend from Japan who is starting to work on his 
thesis in Polymer Engineering.  He would like to buy a Macintosh
computer to use now and take back to Japan in the future.  
Right now he is using Sigma Plot on an IBM computer to do data 
analysis and print graphs.  His question is:  Is there a 
comparable package available for the Macintosh?  Also he is 
interested in a Japanese word processor. 
    Both of these programs can be in either Japanese or English
format.  
    Any advice would be helpful!

    Thank you very much!

    Glenn Lindamood

-- 
Glenn Lindamood                    am748@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: poser@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Bill Poser)
Subject: Re: Vowel systems of ....
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:27:21 GMT

Two comments. First, don't bother looking for the new edition of Ruhlen's
_Guide_. There is a new version, published by the Stanford University
Press, but it is supposed to comprise three volumes, and the only one
published so far deals only with classification. The "data" volume has
yet to appear.

Second, contrary to Kenneth Miner's memory, Maddieson's inventories
are, for the most part, second hand like everybody elses and so raise the
same problems of interpretation, inconsistent phonemicization, etc.
It has its uses, but like any other such book, I would treat it primarily
as a source of pointers to the primary literature and check out anything
crucial myself. Note also that that it attempts to present a statistically
useful sample, not an exhaustive list of languages, so relatively rare
sounds and inventories may well be missing.

Bill Poser



Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: twt@mindlink.bc.ca (Tom W. Tomlinson)
Subject: Truetype IPA fonts?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 06:26:56 GMT

Hi.  As a fenestrophile (Windows-lover), I have settled upon TrueType
fonts as my one & only font standard.  Does anyone know of any IPA
character set TTFs, especially public_domain or shareware ones?

Eagerly awaiting SCHWA, EDH, THETA, and those other varmints,
Tom
--
   ----------------------------------------------------
  |   Thomas W Tomlinson  |  Vancouver, B.C., Canada   |
  |       aka: Hylas      |        `Lotusland'         |
  |....................................................|
  |   twt@mindlink.bc.ca  | English/francais/italiano  |
   ----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder)
Subject: Re: Esperanto a natural language?
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:42:13 GMT

In article <user-230193130936@hf-mac16.uio.no> user@computer.uio.no (PC Jorgensen) writes:
>I've never learned much Esperanto myself, but wasn't/isn't one of the
>points of the syntax that you could, to some extent, construct sentences
>according to the rules of your native language (Germanic/Slavic/Baltic
>users can put the
>adjective before the noun, and Romance speakers the noun first)?

I believe I read this myself somewhere.  Barmy idea; the effect would be an
immediate fracturing of the language into syntactic dialects, and many amusing
opportunities for confusion.  I would maintain, however, that Esperanto is
nowhere near this forgiving.  In effect Zamenhof defined Esperanto syntax
ostensively, by writing books in it, and present-day Esperantists can,
like speakers of natural languages, model their syntax on that of fluent
speakers and writers of the language.

>And secondly, apart from the literature written in Esperanto, isn't the 
>syntax one can find in both written (letters, for instance) and spoken
>Esperanto very straightforward (for IE speakers, that is)? (as determined
>by the context and the nature of the situations where people who speak/know
>Esperanto actually use it?)

Mmm, define "straightforward."  

Do you consider English syntax (as seen e.g. in letters) straightforward?
Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: Re: Subject and object confusion (Was: Re: "n'ha"...)
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 11:57:46 GMT

David Librik (librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
>Jacques Guy (jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU) writes:
>>Yes, so in Latin (e.g. Catullus: dic mi te me amare), but in the
>>Breton case, if memory serves me (I can't find my Breton grammar,
>>koc'h!) that confusion could arise in the simplest sentence, i.e.
>>a single, main clause.
>
>This appears in Welsh (which is related to Breton).  You can emphasize a
>certain word in a sentence by putting it first.  So while the normal order
>of a sentence is unambiguous:
>	Gwelodd Tom ci		`Tom saw a dog'
>if you make `dog' emphatic you end up with:
>	Ci welodd Tom		`Tom saw a DOG' or `A DOG saw Tom'

Well, again we can add several languages to the list. Swedish and
German are two. In German you only get an ambiguity when none of
the words are masculine with articles, so the example above does
not translate well to German, since "Hund" is masculine, but take
a cat instead:

       "Eine Katze sah Tom"

I leave to Leo Connolly to sort out the fine details for German, but
in Swedish:

       "En katt s}g Tom"      ("}" = a-ring)

You don't really know what this is without context. Normally you put the
subject first, but then again you are more often talking of what Tom sees
than what the cat sees.

A somewhat similar problem occurred to me when reading a headline
in an Italian newspaper. I have forgotten the words, but I had

     verb noun adjective noun adjective

First noun was the subject, the second the object, so far so good but
what confused me was my initial analysis of the adjectives which I
assumed both were postpositioned which made the head line look very
strange. (My Italian is not fanastastic.) It took me quite a while,
until I realized that both adjectives belonged to the object. Italian
is a good example on that you need case systems and that to have a
free word order.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se