HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: niekd@cs.kun.nl (Niek van Diepen)
Subject: Re: How to interpret the ko-rule?
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:59:51 GMT

Fred Hansen and Barry Phease already answered part of the questions
posed by John Tromp:

>In article <8469@charon.cwi.nl>, tromp@cwi.nl (John Tromp) writes:
>> 
>> So my question is:
>> is there any rule-system in which the no-repetition rule
>> includes the turn in the position? do they also state that a player
>> may pass at any turn?
>> 
>> regards,
>> -John Tromp

And Barry's answer:
>The New Zealand rules state that a move consists of
>   a) saying pass
>or b) playing a stone on an empty intersection which does not repeat a
>previous board position with the same person to play.
He then explains that the situation in the new American rules is the
same. However, Oriental (*) rules tend to be more pragmatic and hence
the rules tend to forbid immediate recapture (**). This implicitly
includes that the same player is to move after the capture, so it is
not mentioned.

The technical terms are ko-rule (no immediate recapture) and super-ko-
rule (no board repetition). The motivation for the ko-rule is that it
is easy to remember, while the super-ko-rule demands some omni-science.
Of course, the disadvantage is endless repetition with undecided games
as a result.

What is best? Westerners in general want "complete" rules, so they
prefer the super-ko-rule. Orientals in general want "practical" rules
so they prefer the normal ko-rule. Mr. Ing (Taiwan) tried to make the
normal ko-rule complete. Decide for yourself....

Again Barry hits the nail on its head:
>As you are in Europe you are probably using Japanese rules which just
>define a simple ko. In the situation you describe (...) it is not
>considered a ko and no prohibitions apply.
So if the gentlemen insist they can play this way forever with a pass
included in the sequence. Still, one is capturing two stones for each
stone captured by the opponent, so, even if it is a repetition this
player will be able to wait until he has enough prisoners to give up
the seki and still win the game.

Niek van Diepen, 3-dan
Secretary European Go Federation
Member EGF Rules Committee

(*) Japanese actually -- the translation of the official Chinese rules
    for the International Go Federation Rules Committee conveniently
    omitted the translation of the ko rule.
(**) Mr. Ing of course has his own solution. This is very compicated,
    forbidding one to fight certain kos (so called disturbing kos) and
    allowing one to fight others. In my opinion it is doubtful whether
    the whole concept is well-defined.
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: van@teal.csn.org (Claude W. Van Horn)
Subject: Re: How to do an electronic rag...
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:54:25 GMT

I agree, ASCII is the only way to do it, and distribute by EITHER
mailing list (for those who read EVERYTHING from the screen) 
or sent to someone's house (in which case SOMEONE is going to have to pay for it.
Van!!

-- 
 __________________________________________________________________________
 |  Claude Van Horn           |  Go Player, Magician, Board Games fanatic |
 |   van@wordsys.com          |  Voice Mail systems instalation tech      |
 | WORD SYSTEMS 800-827-3911  |  unusual phone probs gladly solved        |
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: hoffman@cmf.nrl.navy.mil (Eric Hoffman)
Subject: Re: electronic magazine (Re: GO World in trouble)
Organization: Connection Machine Facility, NRL
	<1993Jan4.012710.21256@news.acns.nwu.edu>
	<C0BBL0.AwC@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:46:52 GMT


In order to do this, one would to have insert quite a bit of formatting
information in the ascii, this rendering it less than readable for a 
normal human. It would also reduce the flexibility the authors and 
editors would have in formatting their articles. 

My suggestion would be that a standard graphically rich format be used 
(Postscript, TeX, or something custom), with an automatic extration
program that would try to be as faithful as possible in ascii. 

It seems the task would be very difficult without numbers-in-stones
and foreign alphabets. [as a side note, can chinese speakers really
read pinying with the tone as a number following the syllable?] 

Whatever the consensus is, I'll offer my services as an editor and
software-weenie, since my Go skills are hardly up to the task of
being an author.

ehoffman 10kyu
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: IGS? IGS-servers?
From: yding+@pitt.edu (Yijun Ding)
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:02:32 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

>>>What is IGS/IGS-server? Is is a server with which players can play
>>>each other? How do I use it?

To get started, type the following to connect IGS if you have telnet:

  telnet 128.32.201.46 6969
  telnet "128.32.201.46 6969"           ;on some VMS machine

Choose any name and password.  Try some of "who, help, games, observe 3, 
tell jzy can you help me?, or shout anybody help me!"...

-- 
Want to write in Chinese on PC?  Get dngdng12.zip from 130.49.2.61 in
directory /pub/incoming.  With it, you can post in Chinese too.
From: smidt@fy.chalmers.se (Peter Smidt)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: The Mysteries of Weiqi (part 10)
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:16:53 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <C09q9p.MsK@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> yychen@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Youyi Chen) writes:
>Number 1 golden rule is:
>
>                "Tan Bu De Sheng"
>
>Tan1 =  Greedy;
>Bu4  = cannot, do not;
>De2 =  get;
>sheng4 = victory, success.
>
>Looks like an easy one. "Don't be greedy" is obvious to almost all
>Go players.

In Sweden there is a saying (maybe there likewise is an english)
that goes: "Den som gapar efter mycket, f|rlorar oftast hela
stycket.", which means: "The One who jaws after much, often looses
the whole part."

...

-- 
+=======================================+
"The whole valley is like a smorgasbord."
					-- TREMORS
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: olounela@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Olli Lounela)
Subject: Re: electronic magazine (Re: GO World in trouble)
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:04:13 GMT

In article <2721@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM> mdobbins@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM (Michael Dobbins) writes:
>In article <1i809eINNee0@nic.umass.edu> yang@titan.ucc.umass.edu (HUAYONG YANG) writes:
>>articles with few diagrams? Take ychen's articles for example, if we
>>display them with mgt, the comment window would be way too crowdy. One
>>way to solve this problem is to add one more feature to mgt, i.e. the
>>ability to display ascii screenfully.
>
>That might be a reasonable new feature, but another way to handle it is
>to create a shell script which displays the text a page at a time and
>invokes mgt (or other display programs) when it needs to run through a
>smart go game sequence.  This is essentially what mailgo does with the
>mail message passed for email go games.

I second this.  Please do not make us poor non-gurus dig out the proper
use of TeX, and please do not make it postscript, for besides the fact
that some people may have no access to ps, I at least would prefer
reading it on-line. 

IMHO, a new feature in mgt is preferable to a shell script which would
be usable in Un*x only anyway. 

-- 
	Olli, 3 dan

E-mail: olounela@cc.helsinki.fi           ! .sig still under construction.
Blame me only for any opinions expressed. !  Never you mind, I don't either.
From: julianr@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Julian Richardson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Q: Go software for the Amiga
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:05:41 GMT
Reply-To: julianr@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Julian Richardson)
Organization: Dept of AI, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1993Jan11.122648.14968@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>,
jjstrout@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Joe Strout) writes:
# 
# 	I'm looking for Go software for the Macintosh.  I remember seeing some 
# a year or two ago, but I didn't have a Mac at the time so I didn't keep it.
# I've looked for a FAQ both here and in news.answers with no luck.  If this
info
# is in the FAQ, could someone please post it or mail it to me?  Or if you
have a
# recommendation (whether or not in the FAQ) I'd appreciate hearing it.
# 
# 						Thanks,
# 						Joe
On a similar note, has anybody ported MGT to the amiga?

Julian

-- 

Julian Richardson, 8k                                julianr@aisb.ed.ac.uk
O-)                       Dept. A.I., 80 South Bridge, Edinburgh, Scotland
From: yang@titan.ucc.umass.edu (HUAYONG YANG)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: electronic magazine
Date: 6 Jan 1993 18:55:48 -0500
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.ucc.umass.edu

In article <1993Jan6.134157.17001@ll.mit.edu> nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:
>
>i have given this some thought...then i came to the conclusion that we
>already have an electronic Go magazine infrastructure setup for us -
>this newsgroup.  so i would like to know what kind of features this new
>magazine would have that would make it worth the effort to start
>something new.  maybe we can do all these "magazine" things right here
>in this newsgroup.  or at least use its form.  this would settle the
>issue about ascii versus some TeX or postscript format, since the news
>readers present articles in ascii form.
>

What is in my mind is neither ascii, nor Tex, nor postscript, but the
format that mgt (for PC) can deal with. (Do we have similar programs for
X-window or Mac?) Imagine you receive an uuencoded issue of EGM, you
decode it, transfer it to PC, and read the magazine with mgt. That is
what was in my mind originally. (Of course this is not good for people
who only have terminals.) Why do we need EGM? I can think of two reasons
right now: one is better graphics; the other is organized articles.
Another possible reason is that it gives us reason to ask top players
for some contribution.:-) 

>what would be some of the new things that would go into this magazine
>that we dont already have?  how best to deal with them?
>
>then there is hypertext...no, not yet....
>
>- nate

Huayong
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: electronic magazine
Date: 6 Jan 93 13:41:57 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <1i7e1cINN6r0@nic.umass.edu> yang@titan.ucc.umass.edu (HUAYONG YANG) writes:
>
>I have an idea: why can't we publish a free electronic Go magazine?
...[]...
>BTW, I think ychen's series of articles would be fit for the magazine
>if there were one.
>
>Comments are welcome.
>
>bn 2k

i have given this some thought...then i came to the conclusion that we
already have an electronic Go magazine infrastructure setup for us -
this newsgroup.  so i would like to know what kind of features this new
magazine would have that would make it worth the effort to start
something new.  maybe we can do all these "magazine" things right here
in this newsgroup.  or at least use its form.  this would settle the
issue about ascii versus some TeX or postscript format, since the news
readers present articles in ascii form.

what would be some of the new things that would go into this magazine
that we dont already have?  how best to deal with them?

then there is hypertext...no, not yet....

- nate
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: scoffin@advtech.uswest.com (Steve Coffin)
Subject: xigc v2.1 available
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:39:58 GMT

xigc v2.1 is now available from the ftp site ftp.u.washington.edu,
in /public/go/prog/xigc_v2.1.sh.Z, and at export.lcs.mit.edu, in
~/contrib/xigc_v2.1.tar.Z.

xigc, formerly named xigs, is an X Window System client for the
Internet Go Server.  xigc v2.1 is a bug-fixed release of xigc v2.0;
v2.1 contains no new features.  If you have had no problems with
v2.0, then you do not need to upgrade; move to v2.1 if you:
	1) have problems with end-of-game scoring, "status," or
		"look" commands,
	2) have problems with sgf output from "Save Game"
	3) still have problems with game numbers changing unexpectedly.
	4) have other unresolved problems

ps= When you switch to v2.1 be sure to read the README and xigc.man
files before you try to install, and before mailing to me :-)
If you have built v2.0, save your Makefile; you can use it with v2.1.

pps= If a bug you know about did not get fixed in this release, it
is probably because you did not send me a bug report :-)

ppps= mail bugs, problems, and $$ to me.

				=S.Coffin
				scoffin@uswest.com

==================================================================

Changes in xigc from v2.0 to v2.1:
	1.  Fix so xigc does not try to change game numbers automatically.
	2.  Fix several minor bugs.
	3.  Remove last move dot for "status" display.
	4.  Fix several bugs in sgf save format.
	5.  Upgrade support for "status" "look" and "translate" to chase
		the latest IGS changes.
	6.  Fix a bug that occasionally caused xigc to exit unexpectedly
		during "Refresh (Host)" of games with more than about
		180 moves.
	7.  Force 7-bit characters so xigc works correctly with 8-bit
		communications programs and modems.

==================================================================
From: osman@hannah.enet.dec.com ("Eric, dtn 235-8439, DSG1-2/D8  08-Jan-1993 1002")
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: mgt on x ??
Date: 8 Jan 93 15:01:48 GMT
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA20030; Fri, 8 Jan 93 07:01:49 -0800
X-Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA26427; Fri, 8 Jan 93 07:01:48 -0800
X-Received: from hannah.enet; by decwrl.enet; Fri, 8 Jan 93 07:01:48 PST
X-To: gogroup@hannah.enet.dec.com
X-Apparently-To: rec.games.go.usenet


 
In article <1993Jan6.193222.10057@linus.mitre.org>, hkc@mitre.org (H. Chao) writes:
|> Could anyone tell me how to get SmartGo program?  Thanks.
|> 
 
I would be happy to get a recent version of xmgt (Mgt for X11), too.
Franck




Me too !  I have a vxt2000 here, and I often run MGT on my decterms.  But I'd
*love* to see higher-quality looking go boards, and use mouse to click on them,
which of course is possible using X.

So, is there such an MGT yet ?

/Eric
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 11:17:45 CST
From: <U50329@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject:    Chicago Tournament

The University of Illinois is sponsoring its third AGA rated tournament on
February 13, from 9AM until 6 PM.  There will be from 4 to 6 rounds.  This
will be rather free form.  Back in October, we had a field of 32 players,
ranging from 18-kyu to 6-dan (we had five of the latter.)  Please feel free
to join us.  Bob Barber  2735 N. Lockwood   Chicago IL 60639  (312)804-1612.
U50329@uicvm.uic.edu.  AGA membership required (available at time of
registration).  $10 in advance, $15 at the door, plus minimum $5 for the AGA.
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: eng20332@nusunix1.nus.sg (TAN TECK SENG)
Subject: Re: Q: Go software for the Mac
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:42:58 GMT

Try ftp.u.washington.edu.


    

Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: girodias@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Pierre Girodias)
Subject: Re: Shirayanagi's YUGO
Reply-To: girodias@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Pierre Girodias)
Organization: Universite de Montreal
Distribution: world 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 05:43:37 GMT

An article by Shirayanagi can be found in the "New Directions in 
Game-Tree Search Workshop" proceedings, T.A. Marsland (ed.) 
Edmonton, May 1989.
A revised version is also available in "Computers, Chess, and 
Cognition", T.A. Marsland & J. Schaeffer (ed.), Springer-Verlag.
From: zpy@lpf.umd.edu (Zhiping You)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: University of Maryland Open Go Championship
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:14:44 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park


		Tournament Annoncement

	University of Maryland Open Go (Wei-Qi) Championship

  This is the third Open Go Championship organized by the University
of Maryland Go Club. The first two tournaments (which were in Jan. of
1990 and 1991) were very successful. We had about 50 players at each
tournament and we expect more to come this year. The tournament is AGA
rated. 

Format:

  Five round tournament,  open to all players.
  Time limit: 1 hour per player and 20 moves in 5 minutes for overtime.

Schedule:

  Sat. Jan. 9th  9:30 - 10:00 Registration
  Sat. Jan. 9th  10:30 First Round
  Sun. Jan. 10th 12:00 Fourth Round

Place: 

  University of Maryland College Park Campus
  Tortugal Room (inside Stamp Student Union)

Tournament Fee: $20.
  
Contact Person: 

  Gang Li   (301)422-2659
  Gang Chen (301)209-0057 gchen@math.umd.edu

Direction: 
  
  Take I-95, get on the Washington Beltway (part of which is still
called I95), exit at U.S. Route 1 (exit No. 25.), take south along
Route 1. After a couple of miles you will see a Jerry's Pizza on you
right. Cross a small bridge after Jerry's Pizza, make a right into the
campus (east entrance). Follow that road, you will see a sign for
public parking. Ask any person for Stamp Union.



-- 
Zhiping You
From: alan@ikkyu.Eng.Sun.COM (Alan Marr)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: xgoban, goban
Followup-To: rec.games.go
Date: 10 Jan 1993 11:53:46 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: alan@ikkyu.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: ikkyu

    adrian@stein.u.washington.edu (Adrian Mariano) writes:

    This program [xmgt] has not been released.  Try xgoban instead.

I am the author of the old goban for SunView.  Is xgoban related?
The source was available, it was a Sun demo.  How can I get xgoban?
Who wrote it?

Thanks.

Alan.

Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: hkc@mitre.org (H. Chao)
Subject: Smart Go Program
Organization: MITRE
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:32:22 GMT

Could anyone tell me how to get SmartGo program?  Thanks.

Hungkai
(hkc@mitre.org)
From: pvm@otter.hpl.hp.com (Paul Mellor)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:45:35 GMT
Subject: X11 for IGS ???
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.games.go

I've just found the IGS and would like to play but I don't like the
look of the character based boards. Is there any way I can get an X11
display? I'm running HPUX on a HP 9000/720.

Thanks in advance.

Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: How to do an electronic rag...
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 07:55:58 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque


Its easy. 
First, get a list of 'subscribers'- e-mail addresses from people who want
the magazine (remember, not everybody reads this group all the time :).
Whoever is in charge of distribution can easily set up a bulk-mailing thing
to send it out.
Make it bi-weekly. Any more often and you'll be so busy you won't have time
for much else, and monthly is far to spread out, especially for an electronic
magazine.
As for articles and such-At first, get 'em from anywhere you can :) I would
start by with the numerous and fine informational postings that appear in
this group on occassion- ychen's 'Mysteries of Weiqi' articles would make
a fine column. Since its bi-weekly, having your authors come up with a new
column every 2 weeks is tough, so alternate the columns in every other issue.
Get permission from whomever to post game records and the like. Lots of nice
old Pro games are good- find someone to comment them.

Format? ASCII. Anything else is asking for trouble. (and one can still format
ASCII to look halfway decent- page breaks and the like).
As to how to do game records- do it in 2 forms- in the 'body' of the magazine,
post regular game record type things- ASCII board and lots of numbers. Then,
at the end of the magazine (as a supplement to those who want it), include
a package of MGT formatted records of the games discussed in the articles.

And there you go.
r.
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: hansm@cs.kun.nl (Hans Mulder)
Subject: Re: Funny problem
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 10:54:17 GMT

In <1992Dec28.173621.1@aud2.aud.auc.dk> i13mufel@aud2.aud.auc.dk writes:

>	1 is wrong. try :

>  |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
>  |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
>  |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
>  |. . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . .|
>  |. . . . . . # . . O . . # . . . . . .|
>  |. . . . . 7 # O . . . O # . . . . . .|
>  |. . . . # O O # # # # # O O # . . . .|
>  |. . . . # O # O O O O O # O # . . . .|
>  |. . . . # O # . . # . . # O # . . . .|
>  |. . . # O O # # # . # # # O O # . . .|
>  |. . . # O * 2 9 b . . . . # O # . . .|
>  |. . . 1 O 3 4 a 6 . . . . . O . . . .|
>   -------------------------------------

>	5--*  , 8--3, 

Why would white play 6?  He now has enough liberties to play 6:

  |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
  |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
  |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
  |. . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . .|
  |. . . . . . # . . O . . # . . . . . .|
  |. . . . . 7 # O . 6 . O # . . . . . .|
  |. . . . # O O # # # # # O O # . . . .|
  |. . . . # O # O O O O O # O # . . . .|
  |. . . . # O # . . # . . # O # . . . .|
  |. . . # O O # # # . # # # O O # . . .|
  |. . . # O # O . . . . . . # O # . . .|
  |. . . # O 8 O . . . . . . . O . . . .|
   -------------------------------------

And white is ahead, 3 liberties to 2.

--
Hans Mulder		hansm@cs.kun.nl			1 kyu
From: adrian@stein.u.washington.edu (Adrian Mariano)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Smart Go Program
Date: 7 Jan 1993 18:14:26 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

In <37847@sophia.inria.fr> lebastar@crazy.inria.fr (Franck Lebastard) writes:
  
>I would be happy to get a recent version of xmgt (Mgt for X11), too.
>Franck

This program has not been released.  Try xgoban instead.
From: landman@hal.COM (Howard Landman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: The Mysteries of Weiqi (part 9)
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:12:03 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bang.hal.com

In article <C09Ds7.Ew5@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> yychen@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Youyi Chen) writes:
>Qi4 = discard, abandon.

>My tentative interpretation of this golden rule is

>       "When in danger, consider qi".

>I use Chinese "qi" instead of English "discard", since "discard" is only
>one of many meanings implied by "qi".

>Secondly, there is a difference between tenuki and "Qi".
>Looking up Chinese-English dictionaries, "Qi" means discarding. 
>Therefore, "Qi Zi" means discarding stones. However, as a Go term
>in Chinese, "Qi" implies not only going away, discarding, 
>or tenuki.

Perhaps this is related to the Japanese term "sabaki", which literally
means "disposal".  It means to play lightly and flexibly so that, if
attacked, you can easily run or make life, possibly by sacrificing
part of your group.

	Howard A. Landman
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: lh8413@u.cc.utah.edu (Louise Horney/internal medicine)
Subject: New PC client
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center Student Mail Machine
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 20:21:15 GMT

A new client for PC users (VGA only) named tgigc11.zip is available from
u.washington.edu in public/go/prog.  Features include:
  1. Larger board display (smaller text area).
  2. Local mode for replaying saved games.
  3. Play variations of the actual game while observing or in local mode.
  4. Rudimentary territory estimator.
  5. Automatic script for login.


Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: olounela@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Olli Lounela)
Subject: Re: Kanuck Kwestions Kirin Kount
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:26:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.190210.11639@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> mbrownel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Mark Brownell) writes:
>Mr. Davies writes...
>>...A team, won in all four rounds to finish with perfect scores, for
>>which they received the perfect reward: a year's supply of Kirin beer.
>
>I'd be interested in knowing just how many cases "a year's supply of
>Kirin beer" is in Japan. Up here in beer-swilling Canada that's an awful
>lot of suds! 

And a Finn doef the fame inquiry.  Here it would amount to *QUITE* a
bit...  (Dear me! can I even count that many..? :-)

-- 
	Olli, 3 dan

E-mail: olounela@cc.helsinki.fi           ! .sig still under construction.
Blame me only for any opinions expressed. !  Never you mind, I don't either.