HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: School History ( Was Re: This Favorite Lie Again.)
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:24:04 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1992Dec11.165526.28616@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
>From article <Bz3GF7.Jur@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, by morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay):
>> In article <Bz0ELs.70J@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> streater@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater) writes:
>> 
>> Assuming one is studying for Higher History, it;s up to the school to
>> pick a selection of periods to study, and those you do study probably
>> say something about the general ethos of your school.
>> 
>> 
>
>But wasn't period selected nationally in that even though the school
>chose the topic the exam always (long ago) was broken down into
>questions on different period, with the student being required to answer
>a question on that period. As I remember the questions were written such
>that various topics could be used to answer it.

Not in my day :-)

I only realised that other schools must study different periods in
history when I saw the Higher papers and was briefly shocked to see
questions  on dozens of periods I knew nothing about.

Turned over the pages and Whew! Good old Walpole and his foreign policy!


M

-- 
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8126 soc.culture.british:17460 soc.culture.usa:9187
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: British interference in U.S. elections
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:23:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Dec14.162300.28620
Organization: Clarkson University

From article <1992Dec14.124138.29721@bristol.ac.uk>, by smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee):
> Far as hiding stuff goes, if what they're trying to hide is too
> outrageous, it will probably leak -- and the leakers will probably get
> away with it.  That's where Watergate and Irangate started.  Not
> everyone in government is a nasty.  In this regard, though, the UK
> recently tightened up the internal security laws -- the Official
> Secrets Act.  Used to be that a leaker could try a court defense along
> lines that 'yes, the information was marked secret, but it was in the
> public interest that the information be released'.  This actually
> worked a few times, and in the new OSA, the 'public interest' defense
> is explicitly disallowed.

Even this might be by-passed by appealling to the jury. Did a couple of
juries in the recent past acquit (sp?) someone despite the fact that the
judge advised them to convict?

															GW
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: riordanm@cs.tcd.ie (Mark Riordan)
Subject: Re: This Favourite Lie Again
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 08:08:02 GMT

In article <28024@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.035353.796@maths.tcd.ie>, tim@maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy) writes:
>> Nobody cares what religion anyone is.
>
> Oh my God. Perhaps that is due to the 90+% Catholic population. I lived in 

I don't think anyone does care what religion people are. It certainly
doesn't have much bearing on jobs, housing etc. Although there have
been a few isolated cases mostly in the early years of the state.

>You seem to have missed my point completely. I am not arguing that 
>individual religions are at each other's throats - I am arguing that like 
>some throwback to the 1300's the Catholic church has undue influence over
>the politics and future of Ireland and its people. An influence that I believe
>to be unjustified and unwise...

The Catholic church seems to me to influence politics in
Ireland by influencing its members who in turn influence
politics via the ballot box. This although less of a force
than it once was is still strong. It is also entirely
democratic. You may like me not agree with some of the 
results but that is the will of the people.

>
>> Northern Ireland is very rarely discussed.
>
> Something that you should be ashamed of not proud...

Good point.
>		gln

MARK
-- 
--
| riordanm@cs.tcd.ie	Mark Riordan, MIPS Project		|
|			Computer Science Dept. Trinity College	|
| 			Dublin 2, Ireland			|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Cromwell
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 10:21:03 EST

Regarding Ulick Stafford's comments on Cromwell, I also
remember the Ladybird books being quite filledwith praise for
Cromwell. My impression of Cromwell from modern historiography
was that he was feared by everyone and loved by few. To this day, I
have to ask whether those children's books were typical of English
attitude, or what? As I've said, most historians, left or right,
view Cromwell as an intolerant dictator.

Any comments?

Chris
  


Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,uk.politics
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: UK unemployment figures
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:32:33 GMT

From article <1992Dec18.094255.21415@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, by mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach):
> From today's "Guardian":
> 
> Scotland         9.7%
> Wales           10.1%
> N.Ireland       14.6%
> 
> England:
>  East Anglia     8.2%
>  East Midlands   9.3%
>  North          11.8%
>  North West     10.8%
>  South West      9.7%
>  South East     10.1%
>  West Midlands  11.2%
>  Yorks & Humber 10.3%
> 
> Now arguing from these figures, and even forgetting the huge
> amount of personal debt suffered by people in the south-east
> and the fact that housing costs are still much higher there,
> can we still hear from all those people who are perpetually
> saying what a privileged place south-east England is, how
> deprived Scotland is, how the Tory party is the "South-east
> England Nationalist party" etc.
> 
> Matthew Huntbach


Real question: do you know what the median incomes are for these
regions, or standards of living?

You could have 0% unemployment with everybody geting 2 ponds a week, and
living at the starvation level, and have 50% unemployment with the
median income being 10,0000 pounds a week with the unemployed being
given 5,000 pounds unemployement benefits. My point being that
employment figures are only one component in an economic analysis.

													GW

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Scotland Demands Democracy!
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:34:39 GMT

From article <1992Dec14.180127.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, by cabr01@vaxa.strath.ac.uk:
> Well, on Saturday the 12th of December, 25000 protestors filled the streets
> of Edinburgh to take their greivance that Scotland has no say in who governs 
> the Scots. This has been the largest demonstration since the Tories took
> power in 1979. It corrected those who said that "the Scottish Question" was
> dead. Major denied its legitimacy and was "embarassed" by it. Time and again 
> he has argued that the UK should retain sovereignty within the EC yet he cannot
> see the Scotland requires a voice too. When will he listen. When will Democracy 
> reach Scotland?
>     This may be news to Netters. The BBC did not mention it on a national
> level. The Times was not aware of it today. This is all proof of the
> manipulation of the truth to keep Britain English. BTW I was once in favour of
> the Union. 
>     I would be interested to hear of notification of this turning point in 
> Scottish politics. Has anyone heard of it in the "UK" papers. If so how much?
> 
> 
> Karl Stephen (Active member of the non-affiliated punters party).

In the New York Times on sunday there was a long article about the march
for scottish devolution/independence. It said that from 10,000 - 20,000
people attended the march, and that it was a mixed bag of devolution and
independence supporters. However, it noted that there was general
agreement that Scotland had been disenranchised for more that 12 years.

													GW
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Scotland Demands Democracy!
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:10:56 GMT

From article <1992Dec16.095239.24512@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, by mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach):
> In article <1992Dec15.153439.29505@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) >In the New York Times on sunday there was a long article about the march
>>for scottish devolution/independence. It said that from 10,000 - 20,000
>>people attended the march, and that it was a mixed bag of devolution and
>>independence supporters. However, it noted that there was general
>>agreement that Scotland had been disenranchised for more that 12 years.
>>
> "Disenfranchised" means "denied a vote". Scotland has not been
> disenfranchised, in fact it has a rather generous entitlement
> of MPs. The problem is that for the past 13 years, the whole of
> the UK has elected a majority of Conservative MPs (hasn't cast
> a majority of Conservative votes though), which have outweighed
> the fact that Scotland has elected a majority of Labour MPs.
> 
I was using the term figuratively, since Scotland has voted for a "left
wing" government for the last 12 years, and we have been stuck with the
Tories instead, it is a little like being "denied a vote". I know I can
be pedantic at times too!

													GW
From: stevem@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Steve McGowan (RA))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Information Sources: Highland Clearances
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:58:50 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Computing Sci, Glasgow Univ, Scotland

In article <DROBB.92Dec17132812@hunter-01.cs.strath.ac.uk> drobb@cs.strath.ac.uk (David M Robb IE90) writes:
>
>I am also interested in American Indian clearances as well
>and any ideas of sources of info about this - again facts and 
>actual happenings, treaties, indian view etc rather than general
>books about it - would be appreciated (should this part be to another
>newsgroup? soc.culture.usa?).

	Maybe not suitable for s.c.c, but still.......

	One of the most interesting books I've read recently was 'Bury My Heart
	at Wounded Knee' by Dee Brown.

	It attempts to give a historical view on how the whites ill-treated
	the American Indians. It describes all aspects in full detail, and also
	(which I think might be relevant to what you're after), describes how
	various geographic, civil and land treaties were breached and exploited
	to the benefit of the whites.

	I'm sure the book also contains references and pointers to other
	related articles and work.

	Regardless, it's a splendid book - even if you don't want to use it
	as a reference source. Any good book shop will stock it, but I think
	it's just gone up in price by a pound or so to 7.99. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

			Ye'll no be paying for the fush.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8124 soc.culture.british:17456
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Date: 14 Dec 1992 16:28:20 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

Dr A. N. Walker writes:
#>>>	Kindly explain how *I* have stolen *anything* you (or anyone else)
#>>It's meant figuratively

#>	I understood that.  Now can you explain how I [including the

Apparently not, since you're continuing to pound away in the same
fashion.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine)
Subject: Re: Scots Wha Hae lyrics
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:32:32 GMT

Regarding Scots Wha Hae:

Welcome to the reality of the celts.

merry wars and sad songs.

Haven't you ever noticed that most scottish folk music involves death, dying
and war?  For that matter, in irish, people are always drowning.

I still love it all tho.


slainte,


Tara O'Shea aka LJC
-- 
Lady Johanna Constantine is going home for vacation from 12-18-92 until 1-10-93
tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu*I will miss you all (except Kevin Kline on r.a.animation) 
Founder of the Church of Our Lady of the Perpetually Clueless
Disclaimer: The U of I doesn't give a damn or blast WHAT I do
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,uk.politics
From: dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: SE living standards again (was Re: UK unemployment figures)
Followup-To: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,uk.politics
Organization: Vonnegut Tent Rentals, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 20:38:00 GMT

Matthew Huntbach (mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk) wrote:
> northern chauvinists.
> 
Pot. Kettle. Black.

--
||------------------------------------------------------------------------
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)|Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY  |
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8128 soc.culture.british:17468
From: riordanm@cs.tcd.ie (Mark Riordan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:34:47 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science)

In article <1992Dec14.125659.9372@maths.nott.ac.uk> anw@maths.nott.ac.uk (Dr A. N. Walker) writes:
>let it be dominated by [often mis-directed] hatred.  (c) In the specific
>case of Ireland, it is hard to see any benefits that I, the British in
>general, or for that matter any segment of the population of the UK and
>Ireland derive from past incidents.  The vast majority of us are heartily
>sick of all the problems, are paying through the nose for them, and would
>be very pleased if some magic wand could solve them.

Presumably the wealth transferred from Ireland to Britain during
British Rule has gone on to generate further wealth, jobs, investment,
etc. in Britain while its absence has had a negative effect here.

Some of the British gentry continue to profit from ground rents on 
lands in Ireland (Republic) despite the dubious nature of their
claim on the land. This was presumably insisted upon in the treaty
negotiations or subsequently.

MARK


-- 
--
| riordanm@cs.tcd.ie	Mark Riordan, MIPS Project		|
|			Computer Science Dept. Trinity College	|
| 			Dublin 2, Ireland			|
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: New World Order - what about NI???
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:48:03 GMT
Organization: Not Philips.

In refd article, smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC) writes:
>The main english-speaking troops in the UN are British, Irish and American.
>The first two are obviously ruled out, and I think the various well-known
>attitudes re: Americans & the Republican movement (correct or otherwise)
>would make US troops distrusted by the Unionist camp.

Not that I would wish a tour of duty in NI on them, but I'm fascinated that
you seem unaware that Canadian Forces have played a bigger role in UN
peacekeeping than those of any other nation, and that Canada spends the
largest portion of its Defence budget on that role than any other.

Or do we not count as English speaking??
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  ray@cam.org           |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ulick@michaelangelo.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: Scotland Demands Democracy!
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:02:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.130034.17226@samba.oit.unc.edu> Gerry.Mulvenna@launchpad.unc.edu (Gerry Mulvenna) writes:
>reassured that it was so well supported.  I remember similar media treatment
>meted out to a 20,000-strong Poll Tax demo in Edinburgh some years ago.
>
>It is odd how 1000 demonstrators in Moscow seems to be more news-worthy
>than 100,000 muslims in London or 10,000 Republicans in Belfast etc etc.

What's odd about it????  Are you in Belfast or Chapel Hill (just curious).


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Ireland...Catholic Church
Date: 12 Dec 92 08:13:45 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Dec12.011621.5454@massey.ac.nz>, news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System) writes:
> In article <27965@optima.cs.arizona.edu> Gary L. Newell,
> gln@cs.arizona.edu writes:
> > "I want my abortion and I want it now!". 
> >In fact I want two they're small.... 
>   I suppose I can speak for many of the Soc Culture Celtic contributors

I have a feeling you probably suppose wrong but far be it from me to
say so - anyway - I would greatly enjoy hearing why you think I should
be committed - please explain for us.....


			gln

> in wishing you the best of luck, and hope for a speedy recovery.  I also
> hope the 'men in the white coats' at the 'clinic' treat you well, and
> that the strait-jacket isin't too tight!!!!


			gln

Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8237 soc.culture.canada:9450
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: New World Order - what about NI???
Date: 17 Dec 92 03:24:51 GMT
Organization: Not Philips.

[Now crossposted to soc.culture.canada]

In refd article, gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.034803.25407@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>> Not that I would wish a tour of duty in NI on them, but I'm fascinated that
>> you seem unaware that Canadian Forces have played a bigger role in UN
>> peacekeeping than those of any other nation, and that Canada spends the
>> largest portion of its Defence budget on that role than any other.
>
>Care to expand on this? In particular, how have you determined that Canada
>has "played a bigger role" than any other nation in peacekeeping? Is this
>in raw numbers? A percentage of the population? As of 1980? What? Since
>Canada has a "defence" budget the size of Arizona's state budget, I'm
>curious just how earth-shattering the Candian effort has been if in fact
>it is that impressive....
> How many Canadian troops were in the gulf? How many are in Somalia?  

If I'm going to quote statistics, then I expect gln to do the same,
including justifying the relevance of his "defence budget the size of
Arizona's state budget" sneer.

There has never been any question that Canada maintains a _much_ smaller
armed force than the US (I'm happy to say).

So how many UN peace keeping missions has the US supplied troops to in the
last 20 years or so?

I'll research the actual Canadian figures, but in the meantime, Canadian
troops are currently in Cyprus, (formerly) Yugoslavia, and Somalia.

I believe they are currently withdrawing from Cyprus, having been there
continuously for nearly 30 years.  28 or 29 Canadians were killed.

They've been in Bosnia/Serbia for several months.

Unlike gln, I wouldn't categorize "the gulf" as a peace keeping mission,
but yes, Canada had naval, ground and air forces and fighter planes in the
gulf.

Under the circumstances, I can't resist pointing out that the next mission
of one of the three ships we sent to the gulf was a relief mission to aid
our southern neighbours by rebuilding hurricane devastated schools in
Florida.

Of the 10,000 troops in Somalia, about 900 will be Canadian in a
week or so, the rest being to my knowledge French Legionaires and US.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  ray@cam.org           |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 15 Dec 1992 16:20:42 CST
From: <U52148@uicvm.uic.edu> (Chicago Cro)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject:    Attention Chicago Celts

There will be a rally for Bosnia Dec 23, 1992 at noon
in Daley Plaza. Bring your flags, and dress warmly.

-Cro
From: rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Capercaille
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:40:59 GMT
Organization: Dundee University

Capercaille's tour bus was involved in a 13 vehicle accident on
the road to Aberdeen last night. John the percusionist is detained
in hospital with 'serious' injuries - Tayside Radio said the injuries
were to his neck on last nights news, Radio Scotland just announced
serious this morning. Donald Shaw is reported as having a broken wrist,
the rest of the band and crew as being cut and bruised.
The Scottish christmas tour is cancelled - hopefully just postponed.
From: rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: This Psalm thingummyjig
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:48:14 GMT
Organization: Not Sht. Andrewsh Univershity

Shurely Shome Mishtake Moira - that's MacCrampon's psalm thingummy,
ishn't it?

Or more seriousy - maybe they mean MacCrimmon's Lament.... one of
the more dreary apres drinks song...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Highland/Native American Clearances
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 01:07:27 GMT

In a previous posting I mentioned a book by Peter Matthiessen about the
history of Native Americans and how they were in many cases cheated out
of their land, well I got the title wrong, it should be either

Indian Country by Peter Matthiessen or

In the Spirit of Crazy Horse by Peter Matthiessen

both are published by penguin, and it was the latter one that had the
"censorship" controversy. Also wrt the Lakota Souix they won a supreme 
court ruling about 5 or 6 years ago that said that the Black Hills had 
been taken from them illegally, and as a result the government said that
they could have x million dollars but they refused to take this money
and are demanding the land back (land that is "owned" by the government,
not by private home owners). Bill Bradely of New Jersey tried to pass a
bill (no pun intended) that would give the land back to the Sioux but
the congress voted against it. wrt Native American politics I also
recommend Buffy Saint Maries latest album entitled "Coincidences and
Likely Stories".

														GW