HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ruckerm@gtephx.UUCP (Mike Rucker)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Question about baseball broadcasting
Keywords: broadcasting
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:03:53 GMT
Organization: AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona

In article <ku3otkINN58f@saltillo.cs.utexas.edu>, colaluca@cs.utexas.edu (Mark Colaluca) writes:
> This is a bit off the current subject(s), but I'm curious to know if anyone 
> out there has experience about how most broadcasters get their starts in
> baseball broadcasting.  
> -- 
> |  Mark Colaluca	Internet:   colaluca@cs.utexas.edu |
> |  			Compuserve: 72230,1221 AOL: MC99   |
> |        "A Pittsburgh native, and proud of it. "          | 
> |----------------------------------------------------------|

My brother-in-law, Kent Derdivanis, is one of the Pirates announcers.
He's worked for the Red Sox, done Arizona basketball/football, and
UCLA football.  In the past, he's led seminars on how to become an
announcer.

Being a Pittsburgh native, you might try to get in touch with him
via the Pirates and see if he's planning on doing the seminar any
time in the near future.

From what I recall, he tries to talk as many people out of pursuing
this line of work as possible, as it seems to be geared more and
more towards ex-jocks.  But then, he may just be trying to protect
his own job :).

Mike Rucker, AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona
From: dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Oakland A's Dream Team
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:06:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: unix.204632
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Apr8.210451.4356@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> glb50263@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Gary L. Blickhan) writes:

>snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:

>>RP	Dennis Eckersley
>>RP	Rollie Fingers

>>No problem here.

>Dennis Eckersley doesn't deserve to be listed with (no less above) Fingers.
>
>Fingers was awesome!!! [...] The Eck just doesn't compare. 

Yeah, right.

For anyone who didn't notice, Dennis Eckersley, from 1987 through 1989, was
the most dominating reliever in history.  No, really; go see if you can find
200 consecutive comparable innings from anyone.  Certainly not from Fingers,
good as he was.  Maybe Sandy Koufax; maybe Bob Gibson.  No other reliever can
touch it, though.


-- 
          David M. Tate            |"The man who hath no music in himself
     dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu       | Nor is not moved by concord of sweet sound
  A poem should be dumb, / As old  | Is fit for treason, stratagems, and spoils
 medallions to the thumb.-MacLeish | 	Shakespeare, "Merchant of Venice", A.V
From: ky0l+@andrew.cmu.edu (King-Han Yao)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Answer to Question re: 2000 Wins
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:49:54 GMT
Organization: Senior, Economics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

On 14-Apr-92 in Answer to Question re: 2000..
user Dodger@mizar.usc.edu writes:
>This should come as NO surprise...
> 
>The first (and only) National League team to get 2000 Wins
>since 1969 (Start of Division Play) is....
> 
>		The Los Angeles Dodgers
> 
>YAY!
>					BleedsDodgerBlue

Did an AL team beat them out?
Please post if you know (by the 'sound' of your post, it seems like some
AL team did, but I don't know).

-King
-------------
King Yao                       
Economics 
Class of '92                   
Carnegie Mellon
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: More On Griffin, The Immortal One
Date: 12 Apr 92 19:23:13 GMT
Organization: The Cult Of Personality

Checked out Griffin's teams' records with and without him during the
seasons he was with them.

         Record With    Record W/O
'87-'90  247-241,.514   91-66,.580

(Griffin played every game in '85 and '86, so including those years would
have unfairly hurt Griffin's cause further.  I don't have '91 data available
to me as of yet)

Greg   
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here)
From: winstonc@aludra.usc.edu (|)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Trivia: What to the numbers mean...?
Date: 8 Apr 1992 17:44:17 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <92099.185021GRM100@psuvm.psu.edu> GRM100@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>Here's a bit of trivia from our college paper...
>
>Give the significance of the number and the player
>who holds the record.
>
>1) .424      Highest BA maybe

Possibly

>2) 2.17      lowest era

Definitely not. Bob Gibson had a 1.12 in '68; Clemens 1.96 (or 1.93) in
'90.

>3) 56        \
>4) 57        /  Is one of these 50's, Hershisers inning streak

Hershiser pitched 59 consecutive scorelss innings, I think.

>5) 61

Number of home runs Roger Maris hit, of course. (HR record)

>6) 190

Hack Wilson's RBI record.

>7) 511

Cy Young's Win Record

>8) 755       HR career?

Henry Aaron's Career Home Run record.

>9) 5511      Hits career?   Pete Rose?

Nolan Ryan K's?

>10) 7

Longest World Series played (in games) ?  :-)

>
>Any suggestions?  Good luck..I post the answers when the next paper
>arrives....at the end of april.....
>
>grant


-- 
Winston Chang		    "Truth is beauty, beauty truth;
winstonc@aludra.usc.edu	     That is all ye know on earth,
			     And all ye need to know."
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 1991 Cy Young -- Glavine vs. Martinez
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:28:56 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <167C8DC71.CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:
>     OK, let's toss out the wins and losses and compare Glavine and
>Martinez by runs and innings.  It's true that Dennis has the better
>ERA, 2.39 to 2.55.  He does even better in RA (counting unearned runs
>as well), which many people (including me) think is a more accurate
>measure of a pitcher's ability and rate of performance -- 2.84 to 3.03.
>But these numbers are only *rates* -- surely you wouldn't argue that
>Doug Dascenzo should win the Cy Young because he had a 0.00 RA. (I
>think he pitched last year; anyway, you get the point.)  To measure
>a pitcher's value, you have to multiply rate of performance by amount
>of performance (innings pitched).  Thus, the stat which measures a
>pitcher's value is IP/RA.  

If you're going by IP/RA, then Dascenzo is still better...

A better measure is runs better than average.  The average NL RA was 4.12.
Martinez still comes out ahead on this (he did have a sensational season).

But it's really not proper to ignore that Glavine pitches in one of the
best hitting parks, and Martinez pitches in one of the best pitchers'
parks.  On the road, Glavine's ERA was better than Martinez.  Except for
home runs, the two had quite similar seasons.  One can't conclusively
say that Martinez was better, and if they weren't going to give it to
Ryan for his sensational 8-16 season, they're not going to give it to
Martinez, when Glavine had a season at least as good, *and* won the magic
twenty.
-- 
Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  hat."  -- District attorney explaining Marc Cienkowski's
U o' C Law Skool   +  murder with bow and arrow of Michael Klucznik in
Chi, IL 60637      +  Doylestown Borough, PA over a game of Monopoly.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wnbc@eng.umd.edu (Joseph S. Kaufman)
Subject: Re: Mets Romp in '92 laffer
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 22:58:38 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Distribution: na
Keywords: idiot

In article <1992Apr7.124345.5194@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In just *one* post, this guy empirically demonstrates
>(1) How obnoxious Mets fans are, and
>(2) They don't teach people in Wharton how to count.  (I mean, really,
>    eighteen times five equals 88?)
>
>>METS  80-8*
>Ted Frank          + "A word is not a crystal, transparent and unchanged, it

Ted, your article demonstrates
 (1) How much of an idiot you are

How can you possibly think that this guy was being serious when he writes
that the Mets will go 80-8?  You are an embarrasment to the human race.

As a Mighty Metropolitans fan, I personally think it will be hard for the
Mets to take 1st place with their current defense.  My defense would have
Howard at third, Darryl in center, Mags at 1st, and Murray back in Baltimore
in an old age home.  

I am pissed that Frank Viola and Blaine Beatty are no longer on the Mets.
I think that our pitching is going to suffer greatly because of this.
But hey, if our 4 main guys can stay healthy and Anthony Young can give 
us some innings, I think our inconsistencies, in the defense especially, will
ballance out.

Lets Go Mets, Lets Do It AGAIN.
-- 
*****************************************************************************
 In-Real-life: Joe Kaufman, University of Maryland College Park, MD, U.S.A.
------- "Howard Stern is number one, Magic Johnson will soon be done." ------
	wnbc@eng.umd.edu 	 phone: 1 301 699-9455        :----)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: NL Roster questions...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 00:20:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.175210.29000@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> frisbee@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Tyler Brown) writes:
>A little while back, someone kindly posted a compilation of opening
>day rosters from USA Today. I have a few questions:
>
>I show the Astros with 24 men. Mike Simms is not included. Is this
>an oversight?

Actually, no.  I might have omitted a name, but Simms was not on the roster.
There are 10 pitchers, 2 catchers, 8 infielders, and 5 outfielders.

>Steve Lake is the backup Catcher on the Phillies? I thought he spent his
>spring with SF?

He refused the assignment to Phoenix, and was immediately re-signed by the
Phillies.

>The Giants kept Bryan Hickerson?

Yes.
>
>Some St.Louis questions: How badly is Jose Oquendo injured? Is he on the DL
>yet? With Geronimo Pena out, who will take his place? Jones? Hudler? Wilson?

Luis Alicea was called up, and Jones and Alicea will probably platoon.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Charter Member of the Acker-o-phobics Anonymous
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Navarra)
Subject: Re: Eckersley NOT better than Fingers
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:44:45 GMT

In article <Apr.14.22.33.58.1992.25753@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky) writes:
>navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Navarra) writes:
>
>2 years IN FENWAY of 2.99 era's.  in all his years as a 
>starter, he had *2* years that "sucke" - i don't consider a 4.27
> era in fenway as sucking by any means.    other than those
> 2 years that he sucked, and 2 years that he had a 4.27 era,
> he *never* had an era above 3.73.  in fenway.

	What the hell are you talking about???? He had two years of a 
2.99 Era (78,79) followed by FIVE years of an era no LESS than 3.73
with the highest being 5.61! In the 7 years that followed those two
good years, Dennis went 74-78 with 0 (repeat 0 saves) and a horrendous
ERA. Basically, in the 7 years before his switch to the bullpen, Eck
did NOTHING impressive.

>
>>	Eck had the advantage of a second chance -- something many players
>>don't get. Give Rollie a break, he was great, is great and ever shall be
>>great.
>
>lesson #1 in baseball history.  rollie fingers STARTED his career as
> a starter.  after doing POORLY as a starter, he got a "second chance"
> (something many players don't get), dick williams (i think) moved
> him to the bullpen.  
>
	Yeah, I realize this but when rollie did not SUCK for 7 years 
as a starter before he was moved to the bullpen. His second chance
game early in his career and he was always effective since then.

-tms
-- 
From the Lab of the MaD ScIenTiST:
					
navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu		
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dsl@cs.brown.edu (Clyde Drexler)
Subject: Trivia:  10 wins in last 9 seasons
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:22:33 GMT

I'll guess Bruce Hurst and Mike Boddicker.
From: psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: It's way to early, but how could I resist
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:23:07 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


Mets fans, comfy in last place?  Get used to it!  Just as I said
the errors and miscues are adding up, the runs and power of their lineup
is all smoke and mirrors (except HOJO), their cross town rivals are beating 
them at the gate and why not the Yanks are the only real baseball team in NYC. 
The pitching is... is ... what's the word I'm looking for uhm, laughable 
yeah that's it laughable.

I can see the sharks in the NY media smell blood and are circling in for the 
kill already!

Life is DAMNED good!

PSG
From: wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Baseball stats
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:21:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: cc.P9KHBNR5
Distribution: na
Organization: CC

In article <1992Apr9.212818.1582@ccs.QueensU.CA>, drew@rakoth.ic.cmc.ca (Andrew Scott) writes:
> 
> Are there any sites or services that provide current
> stats (ftp or equivalent)?  I noticed a 1-800 number
> in Baseball Weekly but I can't access it from Canada.
> 
> thanks,
> pds
> 
> 

Please see my separate posting under the thread "Downloading Stats"
about the INTERNET BASEBALL STATISTICS COOPERATIVE.

- matt
From: X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Rickey Henderson v Nolan Ryan -- Stat-head call to arms!
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:30:21 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University

In article <204975@unix.cis.pitt.edu>
     dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
 
>>Ryan causes a lot less problems than Rickey for his teams.
>
>He also causes noticably fewer wins.
 
   And I'm sure that if Rickey had played for the Astros with
the kind of support that Ryan got from them, he would have been
on the losing side too....
 
   And it wasn't just the Astros; Ryan has been plagued with
playing for teams that couldn't produce support for him.
 
      ----------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |  "Success is the realization of your
x005cb@tamvm1.tamu.edu  |       worthwhile dreams" ---  Dexter Yager
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |  "A goal is a dream being acted upon"
(409) 845-8454 (work)   |                          ---  Don Wilson
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Will Clark as a Triple Crowner?
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:47:00 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr13.212422.22439@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@fish.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>In <QduAzhO00Vom8H50Vp@andrew.cmu.edu> Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>:
>>What more can you say about Barry Bonds?  Unbelievable.  He may be the
>>closest thing to a triple crown threat in the NL.
>
>Yes, or maybe Will Clark.

Clark?  Ok, an outside shot at BA.  But since the rabbit-ball year, he's
only hit 19-29 home runs a season (and more of those at Candlestick
than on the road, so it's not completely the park.)

I'll be surprised if Bonds can pull off the batting average needed to
win a triple crown.  1990 was the closest he came, 301/33/114.  (Though
he had 116 RBI's in '91.)

Thomas and Griffey Jr. are the only real TC threats I see who are
currently active.
-- 
Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  hat."  -- District attorney explaining Marc Cienkowski's
U o' C Law Skool   +  murder with bow and arrow of Michael Klucznik in
Chi, IL 60637      +  Doylestown Borough, PA over a game of Monopoly.
From: thornley@cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: More arguments (was Re: Eckersley NOT better than Fingers)
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:15:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr17.021556.22943
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.

In article <1992Apr16.195037.17155@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> mab50312@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark A. Blickhan) writes:
>By the way, if anyone has any more ammunition left,
>
>consider the remaining topics above, but let Fingers vs. Eck die
>in peace (the squabble, not them hopefully).
>
>Start a new discussion based on:
>1)  Career value vs. single seasons

How about career value vs. a short stretch of seasons vs. single seasons?
Mantle's best years were better than May's best years, but I think Mays
had the better career.  Meanwhile, Maris' 1961 is better remembered than
any of Mantle or Mays' numbers (to the point where Maris is commonly
considered a one-year wonder, rather odd for a man with consecutive MVPs).

This is one I waffle on, but my prejudices for Hall of Fame voting are for
a player with a brilliant peak, meaning that I'd vote for Mantle before
I'd vote for Mays.

>2)  'Doctoring Stats

"Doctoring" seems like a loaded word.  I prefer the more neutral "adjusting".

Stats as numbers are meaningless.  They are only useful to show how good a
player is or was.  Therefore, we should have no regard for the numbers, and
should examine them for meaning.  Now, a .298 batting average for an outfielder
would be outstanding in 1967 and low in 1936.  Should we conclude that most
of the good hitters in baseball had their careers in the 30s, or should we
conclude that hitting was easier in that era?  Should we conclude that there
were no sluggers before 1920?  Should we conclude that all the best pitchers
pitched in the dead-ball era, and we have never seen their like since?

Park effects can also be significant.  The As get fewer runs at home and
they will allow fewer.  Therefore, the impact of one run is greater, and
therefore runs are more valuable.  Most park effects are close enough to
neutral that they can be ignored, but some are not.  Last time the Cubs
won their division, they appeared to have excellent offense and average
pitching; with park adjustments, they appeared to have excellent pitching
and average offense.  It would in fact have been easier to improve the
offense than the hitting.

>3)  World Series play vs. Regular Season

World Series play is clearly the most dramatic and visible play, and tends
to magnify good and bad things.  On the other hand, nobody plays enough
WS games to draw any useful conclusions about their level of ability.
If a player were to play in 25 WS averaging 6 games each, he would have
played the rough equivalent of a season, and we know how much variability
random chance can play in a full season.  World Series play tells us
virtually nothing about players.

David Thornley
"Have opinions, will type"
From: reeve@steam.Xylogics.COM (Scott Reeve)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Memories of baseball
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:44:17 GMT
Reply-To: reeve@steam.Xylogics.COM (Scott Reeve)
Organization: Xylogics, Inc. Burlington, MA, USA 01810

My favorite baseball moments:

1976:	ALCS 5th game.  After George Brett hit a three fun home
	run off Grant Jackson to tie the game in the top of the
	ninth, good ol' Chris Chambliss cracks on in the bottom
	of the ninth to win the series.  (forgot who he hit it off)

1977:	ALCS 5th game. Yankees down by one run in the top of the
	ninth, score three runs to go ahead by two.  Reggie with
	a *big* single.  Yanks win series.  Of course Reggie with
	his three homers in the World Series is right up there too.

1978:	Bucky Dent.  [Didn't Mike Torrez bad-mouth the Yanks
		      when he left?  Gotta love it!!]

1983:	Dave Righetti's no hitter.

P.S: To all the Red Sox fans out there:
     After all the years of the bitter rivalry between the Yankees and
     the Red Sox, I still wanted them to beat the Mets.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kleiner@nexus.yorku.ca (Ron_M_Kleiner)
Subject: Spiers & Thome injuries?
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 00:33:36 GMT

What sort of injuries do Bill Spiers and <what's his first name?> Thome have?  
When are they expected to return?

Thanks,

Ron Kleiner
kleiner@nexus.yorku.ca
From: jimdean@bnr.ca (Jim Dean)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: *** THE TORONTO BLUE JAYS ***
Date: 15 Apr 92 11:59:24 GMT
Reply-To: jimdean@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Originator: jimdean@bcrks81


In article <SOLENSKY.92Apr13192237@animal.clearpoint.com>, solensky@animal.clearpoint.com (Frank T. Solensky) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Apr13.180805.29307@helios.physics.utoronto.ca> chuong@bullet.ecf.toronto.edu (CHUONG  HAN HSING) writes:
> 
>    I'm curious to know which cities outside of Toronto have Blue Jay fans.
> 
> After a few more of your postings, probably none.. ;-)
> 
> So, were you a Yankee fan in a previous life?

Yeah, and was your name Al Feldstein?

-- 
Jim Dean (Internet: jimdean@bnr.ca) +-----+    President
mild-mannered computer scientist -->|Phone|--> National Capital Baseball League
Bell-Northern Research, Ltd         |Booth|    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Phone: (613) 763-2135               |     |    Phone/Fax: (613) 723-1580
Fax: (613) 763-7241                 |     |    Hosting the 1993 Baseball
                                    +-----+      Canada Cup (Midget (16-18))
"Has posted more recently, but is still less famous, than Al Feldstein"
From: f67709317@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Kevin Brown = Cy Young?
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:19:38 GMT
 <1992Apr13.231932.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu> <texdude.703256644@camelot>
Distribution: usa,local
Organization: University of Arizona
Nntp-Posting-User: f67709317

In article <texdude.703256644@camelot>, texdude@camelot.bradley.edu (Philip Allen) writes:
> But in those two years [89 and 90], he started out giving up a lot of hits
> and walks in those games.  He's looking much better now.

I'm not sure about that--his raw totals in 89 were ERA under 3.50, 168IP/141H,
with decent BB/SO ratio, although not as high as you'd like.  That's quite awe-
some for a rookie starter, but the injuries ruined part of the season.  He did
a little worse in his sophomore year, with yet more injuries knocking him out
before season's end.  Then last year he stayed healthy all year but was 
terrible.  

I think it's most likely he'll have a 1990-type season (you can't predict
anything from 2 starts!).

> Kevin proved last year that he can pitch 200+ innings.  He almost had
> several CG's last year.  He just had a tendency to lose them in the eighth
> or ninth inning.  Also, he had 12(!) games where he left the game with a
> possible win and the bullpen lost it for him....

Granted, he might have picked up a few more wins if the pen hadn't failed
him.  But that still wouldn't excuse the ERA and high H/IP ratio.  Besides,
he's got a new cast of pen personalities (Floyd Bannister? Steve Fireovid??)
to deal with.  Unless your name is Jack Morris, throwing CGs early in the
season is asking for trouble, IMHO.  Texas has got to have a good rotation
starter to support their offense, and KB could be it.
-- 
Greg Franklin                             "Death is everywhere,
f67709317@ccit.arizona.edu          there are fries on the windscreen."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.culture.china,talk.politics.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,rec.games.frp