From: farzin@apollo3d.apollo3.ntt.JP (Farzin Mokhtarian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Some more info on the Baha'is
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:34:15 GMT
Organization: none




Behnam Sadeghi writes:
                      
@ Regarding Kamran's reply:
@
@ He ignored every objection I made to his line of reasoning.
@ (He had attempted to prove that the Qur'an/Propohet had let people
@ know about the advent of Bahaullah).
@
@ Instead, he commented on two incidental points that were 
@ not central or even relevant to the main argument.

Yes, that is the Kamran Hakim I know. A while ago, when I brought
up a strong argument against Bahaullah, he did not respond at first,
then he simply claimed that he had already responded!
            
The following is more information about Baha'is that someone sent me.
It appears reasonable but I have not researched it myself. I am
posting it merely for the sake of informing interested non-Baha'is
and definitely NOT for the sake of debate with the Baha'is since I
am thoroughly convinced that the Baha'is (at least the ones who post
to SCI) are totally insincere.
                  
Happy reading,
  
- Farzin
                   
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            
Dear Farzin: Salam
I'm sure that you are aware of many things that many of the SCI readers
are not. For example the fact that followers of Mirza Husseinali are
exchanging their books (for better ones!), returning some of them every
year (because it is not good for them!) etc. Of course they all do this
without any question. For example they are asked to return a certain book
for exchange.The new book is almost the same as the old one, but they never
ask the reason for the exchange. Now, this is very funny, but that is the
way that they are trained! (You know the reason for the exchange is nothing
but to fix some of God's mistkes, misreresentation and mischief! For example
the first printing of the "Ighan", the most important book of Mirza is not
available. The reason is that it contains the most obvious mischief of Mirza
the God. In the next publications this misquotation has been corrected.
However, the line of reasoning in the new edition is lost, which indicates
the change. This sort of change in Bahai's miracles is too many to mention)

Some of very imprtant works of God is not available in English. The reason
is that there is no way to fix the cotadictory nonsenses in them. I guess
these books includes the book of "Badii' " by Mirza. It is in this book
that he calls Subh-e-azal a "Goosaleh" and a "khar" (Pages 9,12 for first
fact and page 174 for the latter).

A second book which indicates Abdolbaha's successor should be Mirza Mohamad
ali "Abbas afandi's brother" is "Adei'eh Mahboob, Ketab-e-A'hdi, page 218".

Let me quote some phrases from the book "God passes by" of Shoughi afandi
about how they helped british army defeating Othomon government.
"We learned that when the British marched into Haifa there was some difficulty
about the commissariat. The officer in command went to consult theMaster.
"I have corn" was the reply
"But for the army?" said the astonished soldier.
"I have corn for the British Army, " said Abdul-Baha
He truly walked the Mystic way with practical feet.

No wonder Abdul-Baha received the title of "Knighthood" from British
Government.

About the most modern Bahai laws I can mention the following:
Page 18, line 5 of the Holy book "Aghdass" : Burn alive whomever burns a house
intentionally"
The 'mahr" for urban women's marriage is 19 misghal of gold and for rural
women's 19 misghal of silver!
Women recieve nothing from residential house or clothes of the deceased.
Seyed Bab's teaching is really noble:
Don't drink donkey's milk and don't carry weghts on the cowsand don't hit
the eggs to something before you cook it! Page 49 of Bayan-e-Arabi
Destroy all the books except the ones that is about this "amr"i.e."Babigary"
page 198 of Bayan-e-farsi
And finally in page 298 of bayan-e-farsi, Seyed-e-Bab allows the wife of
a man who can not bear a child to sleep with someone else to bear him a
child.
Of course the bahais would try to distance themselves from the Bab, but
accoding to their leader Mirza, none of Bab's teaching is invalid.
                 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   
Sir Abbas afandi in his book "Makatib" page 347 prays in Arabic whose
translation is "Parvardegara empratoore bozorg zhorzhe panjom (Gerorge IV)
ra beh towfighate rahmaanie khod moa'yad bedar wa sayehye aan keshwar ra
bar in mantegheh ( Palestine, where he was given the title of knighthood
for helping British army defeating Othoman Governor) beh yaari wa hefz wa
hemayate kheesh mostadaam bedar, tou(God)neeroomand wa aali wa aziz wa kareem
meebashi.... Abbas Abdulbaha.
Abbas Afandi was pretending to be a muslim to the last day of his life (real
meaning of hypocracy!). This is because of what Shoughi Afandi writes in
his book entitled " God passes by" and I qoute from the persian translation
which is called "Gharn-e- badi'e", page 318.... " .....hatta dar akhareen jome
tawaghofe ishaan dar jahan, ba za'fe faravan jehate adaye namze zohr dar
masjede jame'e shahr hazer gardeedehand...".  It is interesting to note
that there is no "Namaze Jamaat" in Bahaii way of life and thus he was
showing to the muslims that he was a muslim.

Mirza Husseinali (Bahau'llah!) Was never imprisoned for FOURTY Years. He was
arrested because of an attempt on the life of "Nasereddin Shah", but very
briefly, and with the help from foriegn ambassadors he was released.
There are enough in Bahaii books to prove this and I can provide the details
if necessary.

Seyede Bab in two instances denied that he is Bab,  Mahdi, peyghambr or
having any knowledge. The first denial came in Masjede Vakeel in Shiraz
according to pages 136-138 of "Talkheese tareekhe Nabeele Zarandee". The
second Toubeh nameh was written in Tabreez and it is quoted by Edward Brown
and also on Pages 204-205 of the book entitled "Kashfolgheta'" by Mirza
Aboulfazle Golpayegani, a very prominent Bahaii moballegh.

The story that Seyed Bab went to a toielt after the first bullet hit the rope
is almost correct. He actually ran into a stable and the second time was
shot dead. The stories that he had to go to his secretary to write the last
words and then turning himself etc. is only good for "Aghnam" or sheeps,
as the master Bahau'llah calls his followers, to believe. Indeed "bring your
reasons, if you are right!)
When Seyede Bab was in prison in Tabreez. There was a hearing by Ulema and
they decided that he was mentally ill and should not be executed (page 209
of Brown's the Babi religion), But amir Kabeer, the sadre Azam, for the sake
of the country  had to order for his execution. You see, the poor people of
Iran was awaiting the Mahdi and they were thinking the gate to Mahdi is
in prison. Bab with the help of many agents or semi agents was making alot
of trouble at a time that Iran desparately needed calm and harmony.

Mokhless, ...

p.s. The order to destroy the books etc is on page 198 of Bayane Farsi (but
in arabic, and incidently the arabic of these semi-Gods is unique to themselves
and an arab may not understand it!, let alone a persian or ....)

There are many books that the Bahais are not allowed to keep or even to
see. I can mention almost all writings of Bab, different editions of
"Ighan" and some writings of Mirza in Farsi. You see, Bahais are told that
this is a new religion and has nothing to do with the Babi religion, and
so there is no need for the books. However, even going through some of the
messages which has appeared in SCI, one can see that Bahais desparately
need Bab's teachings.
                          
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian,talk.politics.mideast