HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: guido@cwi.nl (Guido van Rossum)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Python documentation as INFO and WWW hypertext
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:02:38 GMT
Followup-To: alt.hypertext

Python is an object-oriented, interpreted programming language with a
nice clean syntax and data model (compared to C or Perl, at least :-)
Until now, the Python documentation has been available only as LaTeX
source or PostScript, which meant you had to print the entire manual
in order to use it.

But thanks to my colleague Jan-Hein Buhrman, the library documentation
for Python can now be browsed on-line! There are even two ways: as
Emacs INFO tree (1) and as a bunch of WWW hypertext nodes (2).

(1) Emacs INFO tree

The library documentation is available in the format understood by the
Emacs INFO browser.  For this you need to fetch the tar file
python-lib-info.tar from anonymous ftp site ftp.cwi.nl
[192.16.184.180], directory /pub (source for Python is also here).

The tar file contains 6 compressed info files which together comprise
the entire info tree for the library manual.  You can go to the top of
the tree using the 'g' command in INFO mode, type g followed by
(python-lib), assuming the tar file has been extracted in the right
directory.  Of course you can also edit your "localdir" file.

You don't need Emacs to browse INFO files: if you uncompress the
info files, they can also be browsed with the info browser written in
Python from the Python distribution's demo directory,
python/demo/stdwin/ibrowse/ib.  (This requires that you have installed
the STDWIN extension to Python.)

(2) WWW hypertext

If you have a browser from CERN's WWW project (World-Wide Web, a
distributed hypertext system) you can browse a WWW hypertext version
of the manual by following the following link:

	http://voorn.cwi.nl:2784/texinfo/python/top.html

If your name server doesn't know about voorn.cwi.nl, substitute
192.16.201.121.  Try http://voorn.cwi.nl:2784/default.html to see
what other WWW documents are available from CWI -- I have converted
several other texinfo documents to WWW's format and made them
available, such as the Emacs manual.

It is possible that our Internet interface prohibits access to port
2784 on voorn.cwi.nl.  In that case, you can try the following slower
but equivalent access path using ftp:

	file://ftp.cwi.nl/pub/www/texinfo/python/top.html

Sources and binaries of WWW browsers can be ftp'ed from site
ftp.cern.ch, directory pub/www.  Start extracting README.txt.  The
Viola browser is quite worthwile (if you have X11).

I have also written a WWW browser in Python, but its displayer and
parser are rather slow compared to the C versions.  If you're
interested in the texinfo-to-WWW conversion program (also in Python),
send me mail.

--Guido van Rossum, CWI, Amsterdam <guido@cwi.nl>
"Well there's spam, egg, sausage and spam.  That's not got *much* spam
in it"
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: stieger@inf.ethz.ch
Subject: Public Domain Hypertext
Keywords: hypertext information retrieval
Reply-To: stieger@inf.ethz.ch
Organization: ETH Zurich
Distribution: global
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 06:55:47 GMT

I am searching for "public domain" hypertexts in order to perform
some (automatic) retrieval experiments on "real" collections.

The hypertext should NOT be strictly hierarchical, but sufficiently
large (e.g. some 1000 nodes, with node sizes > some few words), and
it should be provided in a way, so that I can access the data without
special hypertext systems (e.g. ASCII with some markups would be
nice).

Please contact me

         stieger@inf.ethz.ch

when you know about such collections.

Thanks !
From: le9miiwa@cine88.cineca.it
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: LINKS!
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:37:56 +0100
Organization: CINECA, Italian Interuniversity comp. centre


Reminder posting:

The LINKS forum is an ACM-sponsored, moderated mailing list about
hypertext/hypermedia/hyperanything.

LINKS is not an alternative to alt.hypertext, but maybe you
may think it useful to extend your queries, and your opinions,
to a broad spectrum of hypertext professionals...

Up to now, we averaged one issue per month, but we plan
to arrive at one issue per week as the traffic increases.

To subscribe, send a message with body
	SUBSCRIBE LINKS
to the address
	LISTSERV@ACM.ORG

To have your question/answer/position statement published, e-mail it to
	LINKS@ACM.ORG

To receive a sample issue, send a message saying "I want a sample issue"
to
	LINKS@ACM.ORG
and you will get one...

Andrea Spinelli
ACM SIGLINK local for Italy -- LinkIt!
LINKS Co-Moderator

Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: dinsmm@henson.ciue.rpi.edu (Michael Dinsmore)
Subject: Toolbook and bitmap image control.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:31:52 GMT

Greetings.
I am wondering if anyone out there has any
experience dealing with bitmap images in 
Aysmetrixs Toolbook.  Specifically, I am looking 
for ways to change a bitmap image to any size I
want.   However, any other infomation you might have 
could be useful, so don't hesitate to drop me a line.
Thank you.



    ___  ___    
   /  |\/  |\  Michael Dinsmore
  /   |/   ||  dinsmm@rpi.edu
 / /|   /| ||  Michael_Dinsmore@MTS.RPI.EDU
/_/ |__/ |_||  Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
\_\/\__\/\_\|  Computer and Systems Engineering
From: langston@memstvx1.memst.edu (Mark C. Langston)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Novel navigation techniques
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:37:42 -0600
Distribution: world
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <1992Nov16.155529.2435@mydual.uucp>, olson@mydual.uucp (Kirtland H. Olson) writes:
> In article <1992Nov15.004816.4084@memstvx1.memst.edu> langston@memstvx1.memst.edu (Mark C. Langston) writes:
> 
> 
>>I would be interested in... 
>>discussion, regarding novel navigation techniques in HyperText.  By _novel_
>>I mean something other than a simple keyword->link->node path, something
>>other than simple index or 'overviews', something other than simple
>>backtracking or page flipping.  
> 
> First, a general comment:  expressed as k->l->n the only choice seems to me
> to be the character of the link.  (I am considering keywords and hot
> spots on graphics screens to be functionally identical.)  Comments on
> this assumption would be helpful to me.
> 
   [...deletia...]

> 
> Except for calling an external program, I don't see where I would end up
> except at a node.  In fact, I want to find a way to make the external
> program return a node address to HyPlus.  
> 
> Does this address the point?  What else should I look at?  Are the
> starting and ending points less fixed than I imagine?  Are there links I
> do not know of?  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kirtland H. Olson                     olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com

  Well, perhaps I was not clear... when I referred to the 'simple' k->l->n
structure, I meant the inflexibility (and sometimes arbitrary) of assigned
links.  What I meant to address was this:  what unique methods exist for
deciding link type, resultant node, keyword to link(s) assignment, link(s) to
node assignment, etc.  What novel methods are used to get away from the rigid,
programmer-assigned link structure, and allow the user more flexibility in
cossing keywords/links/nodes, besides typical indexes or overviews...


-- 
+--------8<------Cut Here------8<------Cut Here------8<------Cut Here---------+
  Mark C. Langston   |  "Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny."                 
  Psychology Dept.   |  "Always listen to experts.  They'll tell you what can't
  Memphis State U.   |     be done, and why.  Then do it."                      
      "Pftph!"       |           -From the notebooks of Lazarus Long         
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: WESCHAP@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: The Future of Hypertext
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 04:40:37 GMT

In article <Bxv9w2.6Br@andy.bgsu.edu>
savina@andy.bgsu.edu (Sharlyn Avina) writes:
 
>
>Hello!  I've just joined this newsgroup.  And I was wondering if anyone
>out there could help me.  For one of my graduate classes I have to write a
>report on an electronic technology.  I am doing mine on hypertext as you
>might guess.  Anyway, as part of the assignment we are supposed to
>predict the future of the technology, as well as report on others'
>predictions.  So, my question to you is:  Where do you think hypertext
>will be in the next 5-10 years?  Will it still be used to present online
>information or will something else take its place?  Any input you could
>give me would be very helpful. Thank you.
 
The future will surely depend upon the development of the technology that
hypertext depends on--something that's hard to predict.  Myself, I see a
number of technologies gradually coming together.  If we can assume that
video format will be HDTV or better, that the "cable" coming into middle
class houses is optical fiber, and that computers will become more and
more ubiquitous in the Xerox PARC sense, then I think it likely that
telephones, video rentals, television, newspapers, books, mail, etc.
will be more and more closely interrelated and less and less distinguish-
able; we'll watch TV on our palmtops and make phone calls on our TV. The
more that happens, the less it will be true that hypertext is a discrete,
rather odd techno-phenomenon and the more it will be true that hypertext
is simply the environment we get our information from.  In some ways this
is already true, but we don't (and won't) see it that way: online catalogs
in libraries, airline ticket terminals, credit bureau databases--all that
stuff is hypertext, even if the only people who call it that are the
people who write the programs.
 
Wes Chapman                                   BITNET: WESCHAP@UIUCVMD
Illinois Wesleyan University        INTERNET: WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU
P.O. Box 2900
Bloomington, IL 61702-2900
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: crawford@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (James E Crawford)
Subject: Re: Hypertext fiction, novels
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:25:00 GMT

Let me preface this by saying I am a big fan of Voyager, and I like
their "expanded book" concept, but, let's face it... it isn't hypertext.

Voyager's software allows you to add little annotations to the texts,
but each book is designed as a stand-alone, incapable of being linked
to anything external. The text is read in a linear fashion, and is, to 
my thinking, little different than reading the text on a word processor.

This isn't to say that they aren't useful; I am currently working through
Susan Faludi's _Backlash_ from Voyager. But hypertexts, they are not; just
high quality transcriptions of the texts to the computer.

Jim Crawford

Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: savina@andy.bgsu.edu (Sharlyn Avina)
Subject: The Future of Hypertext
Keywords: hypertext, online information, forecasts, predictions
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:33:37 GMT


Hello!  I've just joined this newsgroup.  And I was wondering if anyone
out there could help me.  For one of my graduate classes I have to write a
report on an electronic technology.  I am doing mine on hypertext as you
might guess.  Anyway, as part of the assignment we are supposed to
predict the future of the technology, as well as report on others'
predictions.  So, my question to you is:  Where do you think hypertext
will be in the next 5-10 years?  Will it still be used to present online
information or will something else take its place?  Any input you could
give me would be very helpful. Thank you.
-- 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sharlyn D. Avina			savina@andy.bgsu.edu
English Department			(419) 372-6864
Bowling Green State University		(419) 354-1101
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: God Is Silly
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 10:07:02 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift) writes:
> In article <1992Nov11.114355.14940@nmsu.edu>, sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe) wri
> > In article <92315.021717MVS104@psuvm.psu.edu> <MVS104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes
> >>In article <n0de5t@ofa123.fidonet.org>, David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org says:
> > 
> > It's like this:
> > 
> > Weak atheism: "I do not believe that a God exists."
> 
> Bzzzzt.  This is more like agnosticism....

READ THE FAQ FILE.

[ This is a canned posting ]

This is a reminder about the alt.atheism Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
file.

The file exists to help new readers avoid embarrassing themselves by asking
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To find a copy of the alt.atheism FAQ file:

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   FTP is a a way of copying files between networked computers.  If you
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   in the body.

4. If you don't have FTP, send mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu
   consisting of the following line:

      send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources
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5. (Penultimate resort)  Send mail to info-server@mantis.co.uk consisting of
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      send atheism/atheism.txt

   and our poor overworked modems will try and send you a copy.  There's
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   "send atheism/index".


mathew
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: Circumcision (was Re: God Is Unfair)
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 17:19:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.214621.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> kmagnacca@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>In article <1992Nov21.183803.25639@cs.yale.edu>, rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>> In article <Uf3RnyG00WBLI8pqg2@andrew.cmu.edu> "Jordan M. Wolbrum" <jw67+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>So, in summary, circumcision has medical benefit which outways the minor
>>>pain that the child feels.
>> Really? I know of no medical benefits it has been proven to have.
>> Facts, please, sir.
>   I don't know if I can dig up a solid reference for it, but I
>read a while ago that there has never been a recorded case of 
>penile cancer in a circumcised man.  But the chance of getting
>it is so small that it's no more than the chance of infection
>from circumcision.
Hmmm...How many TOTAL cases of penile cancer have there been? If
it's small enough, it's certainly possible it's statistical error.
-Ekr



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re:      Re: God Is Unfair
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:12:27 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Nov18.151044.23933@watson.ibm.com>, strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom) writes:
> In article <1992Nov18.032637.21553@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham) writes:
> |> As for your suggestion that atheists use the Bible for wisdom, I can see
> |> that I'm obviously not even coming close to getting through to you.
> |> Why in the bloody hell should I even consider using a book of your
> |> tribe's barbaric history to teach anything to my kids?  There *are* zillions
> |> of competing books around.  I'd be about 1e20 times more likely to chose
> |> something written by the ancient Greeks than I would the Bible.  When
> |> I look at what the Greeks accomplished, and then listen to you speaking
> |> of the lessons to be learned from reading the story of how Abraham was
> |> willing to murder his kid, or from the stories about how the Jews asserted
> |> their righteousness by slaughtering other peoples, it makes me want to cry.
> |> 
> 
> OK.  Let's do the experiment.  Pick a package from the Iliad or
> the Odyssey, which I imagine we can agree are the most famous
> pieces of epic literature from ancient Greece.  Prepare
> a commentary and a sermon which would allow you to teach
> a public lesson from this passage.  I don't think it's
> going to be as easy as you think.  Make sure that the
> lesson can be understood at multiple levels --- by young
> children and by adults.
> 
> Could you divide the Iliad into 52 weekly portions and
> give a lesson a week throughout the year on them?
> 
> If my memory serves me correctly, the Iliad and the Odyssey
> have problematic passages even more disturbing than the
> "bad" Biblical passages like Elisha and the bears.  I'll
> try to look up a few and post them.

Pardon me for jumping in without warning. I agree that there are
some disturbing things in, say, the _Iliad_, but what about
modern mythology? There's plenty in science fiction, for example,
that teaches excellent lessons about how to live while avoiding
the moral ambiguities of _The Bible_.

I would be *proud* to teach 52 lessons a year from the works
of Isaac Asimov, did I but have the knowledge of how to write
a sermon!

--Semhaza
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Circumcision (was Re: God Is Unfair)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 22:14:01 GMT
Organization: IBM Research

In article <1992Nov19.092029.24644@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham) writes:

|> >Please explain how circumcision of an eight-day-old infant is
|> >as barbaric as excising the clitoris and sewing the vulva
|> >of a young girl.  
|> 
|> Ok, I guess if we have to start quantifying barbarity (I know, I
|> started it), I'll concede that circumcision is not quite as barbaric
|> as clitoridectomy.  But they're both completely unnecessary mutilation,
|> they're both very painful for the victim, and they both cause reduced
|> sexual enjoyment for the victim.
|> 
You drastically overstate the comparison between the two.

The pain associated with circumcision is transient; the
pain associated with the other operation is massive,
and it causes intercourse to be painful.  The effect
of circumcision on sexual pleasure is essentially
unquantifiable; the effect of the other operation
on sexual pleasure is drastic.

Americans have far more "barbaric" practices:  in
our community (Connecticut) it is almost universal
for teenage and pre-teen girls and occasionally
boys to have holes punched through their earlobes
and metallic studs and rings forced through them.
I would say almost 90% of the girls in my daughter's
school class are "victims" of this form of mutilation.

-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
From: ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark)
Subject: Re: What REALLY pisses me off about Fundies
Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Date: 16 Nov 92 11:12:28 GMT

nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:

>In <ednclark.720769528@kraken> ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark) writes:

>>mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:

>>>Because ending something is not the same as not having started it in the
>>>first place.  For example, ending a nuclear war (via massive retaliation) is
>>>not at all the same as not starting one in the first place, morally speaking.

>>>So the answer to "If it's OK to cause a potential person never to exist, why
>>>isn't it OK to cause an existing person to cease existing?" is simple;
>>>"causing a person to never have existed" is not the same as "causing a person
>>>to cease existing".  Hence my original comment.

>A sentient fetus is a "person" in the phenomenological sense of the
>word.

>>Yeah, and also why not (if we take the view of pro-lifers) get every fertile
>>woman we can cram into an in-vitro fertilisation clinic and inseminate her
>>with a potential life.

>Boy, talk about reading comprehension problems!  Fertile women and sperm
>banks both contain potential human life: the unfertilized ova, and the sperm.
>The fetus is actual human life.  Pro-lifers are not into greatly 
>increasing the number of human beings on this earth; they are very 
>concerned about reducing their numbers by violent means, in utero.

>> It seems to me, that if we view the right to life
>>above and beyond societal and existing person's well being, we have a moral
>>obligation to do this. We have the capacity to make sure a much greater
>>proportion of existing ova and sperm realise their potential so, according
>>to pro-life, it seems to me we should do this. When will such madness end!

>Soon, I hope.  The madness, that is, that preceded your last sentence in
>the same paragraph.

>Peter Ny.


When is a foetus a foetus? Why is a foetus greater than a zygote or
potential zygote? 

Jeff
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Nipples or bellybuttons
From: G.A.Arias@massey.ac.nz (G A Arias)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 02:47:13 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
Keywords: Buttons, belly nipples
Summary: Suggestion of a place for the "spicket"
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

Someone writes:

>As the female was created, 
>and she had to nurse the children she'll bear, the nipple offered a 
>conviencient local for placing the "spicket". After all, if the "spicket" 
>was on her back, she'll be less able to hold the baby while suckling.

In that case I think that the most convinient place for the "spicket"
would be the bellybutton. After all, we have just one so the female
wouldn't have to change from one side to the other (as with nipples)
which makes her really clumpsy... I think it's more relaxed for the arms too.

Ger.