From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Male bashing in other newsgroups
Organization: TFS
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:51:10 GMT

ASDXPSC@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU (ASDXPSC) writes:
>     The authors were correct.  This really pissed me off big time.
>     I am so very very tired of equality really meaning " you act
>     and behave as women think you should".  More and more men
>     are forced into the realization that equal rights really means
>     " we will have our cake and eat it too".
>
>     As long as I can continue to draw one testosterone tainted
>     breath I will not allow myself to be "gender neutered" by
>     society.

The guy says his wife likes it.

You know, it's easy to get pissed, that's obvious. I think men can see
themselves in it, maybe they can laugh about it.

Being on usenet is very educational. The first thing I noticed was that
I felt better when I was trying to cooperate in a discussion having strong
feelings, than take every opportunity to bash and refute. The discussion
went places, for example. It was very odd to notice the feeling that I was
somehow abandoning my prerogatives by cooperating, but I figured maybe I
was picking up a feminine value.

I noticed that I tend to react too quickly to a suggestion of content, and
would run with what I thought someone said, and bash the shit out of it,
only to realize I had got it wrong what they intended (oops.) It works -
to set the other up as the complete symbol of the enemy and fight them,
because maybe you get stronger in the fighting (sharpens wits.) But it also
alienates.

Now I get to do a big reversal and instead of castigate this thing, I will
say if the authoress feels these things (were it a she), she is someone I
would not at all contemplate to deal with. But why do I have to feel
defensive, really. There are plenty of nice women out there, so let's not
fall into a trap of thinking this one woman somehow controls our access to
the other women, or that she speaks for them. Only a few items on the list
apply to me, and I know which ones refer to things about myself I will not
change.

If we're up against a lot of ego-bruised women, well, we're a lot of ego-
bruised men. I'm not in a relationship now and I'd very much like to be in
one. I think it'll be much easier if I begin to truly take it for granted
about myself that my desires are good, my intentions are good, and that I
am good enough to hear things like this without feeling personally attacked.

Flaming is fun and I will continue to do it here and there. If I see I'm
compelled to answer every negative thing in kind, I have work to do.

If the woman (if it was) who wrote the list lives in the world she describes,
she must be pretty unhappy. We can also see her attitude will keep her there.
I don't want to join her there by being trapped in a debate with her. She's
not referring to any relationship I have or want, so let her live with whatever
vituperative energy it is (if that's what it comes from).

There is the image of the man, the woman is angry with him, she comes up and
pounds him on the chest. He stands there and takes it, until she has vented.
She realizes that he accepts her anger, and they are reconciled. The author's
image is the one in which the man punches the woman out of the same anger.
I don't want to live that way. I've been the first man; my punches are verbal
only, were I the second man I would shout first, then end the relationship.
If I can't accept the woman's anger, what room does that leave her?

It's very true, this current of "she's decided she's in charge now".
That is a statement out of powerlessness. The Men's movement now reaches
a point where Men have themselves back whole. All they have to do is
remember the strong and noble aspects of their archetype and act them,
and resist reaction out of pain and fear of rejection. Women want Men who
are nice and strong and care about them. Well, aren't we that? We aren't
strong if women who are behaving like spoiled girls can bait us. Give her
someone to respect. Women want self-possessed men, and men want self-possessed
women. All this debate about all-you-want-is-sex and you-never-want-sex
is full of shit to its eyebrows. My woman can listen to me talk sex all day
long and realize it is my imagery for bondedness, and we both want bondedness,
and we both want sex. No average self-possessed woman, whose native desires
have not been snuffed out by the church & company, is going to be any less
of a sex-partner than I would want, nor will I be overdemanding, overbearing
and forever in her pants.

Men have the same power of refusal as women do. The people who should be
refused relationships are those of either gender who wish to perpetuate the
values we're trying to eliminate. Women who view sex as a commodity the desire
for which in the man gives her the ability to manipulate him, are clinging to
one of these old values. In these women we see that they do NOT feel empowered
after all. Since they are looking for a relationship, all they need to see
is that women who are direct about who they are, and direct about what they do
and do not want, and who are not manipulative, are the ones who are getting the
"good men".

I'm still very much working on my confusions regarding the social landscape,
where men catch so much hell for their attitudes about sex. The weird thing
is I know at the bottom of my heart that 'the woman' very much wants me this
way; she's complaining about how I SAY it. If all it takes is a certain kind
of smile versus a leering look - on the first date! Hell, that's worth figuring
out how to do.

There isn't any question in my mind that the universe's image for these people
as lovers is that they have met to copulate, because that's the only way to
make more sets of ten tiny fingers and ten tiny toes. For men this is
externalized, for women it's internalized but there just as much. She knows
you're a satyr to the hilt. Trust she is too. Maybe she wishes we'd shave
before we kiss her.

-ecsd