HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Hackard)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: "news.admin.policy" afraid of "ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle"?
Date: 28 Dec 92 21:51:46 GMT
Followup-To: news.admin.policy
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <9212271800@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:

>But why not create a newsgroup called "soc.culture.x-soviet-armenia"? 
                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Longer than 14 characters.

--
--Andrew Hackard                                 If I spoke for UT, this post
  andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu                        would make even less sense.
From: mucit@cs.rochester.edu (Bulent Murtezaoglu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: KAYANIN BILGISI
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:41:14 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Rochester

In article <23662.9212221126@thor.cf.ac.uk> speeo@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr Ercan Otemel 92) writes:
[buralari sildim]

>   Mr. KAYA ortaya degisik kartlar atiyorsun. Yemezler.
>   Sakin simdi kalkipta hadi gosterin islamda bankacilik
>   nasil dir. Islam da ekonomik sistem nasil olacaktir ?
>   seklinde sorular yoneltmeye.

Benim bu yaklasima aklim ermiyor.  Bin kusur sene evvel kimin
dokuz yasinda cocukla ne yaptigini sormak var da, daha
makul sorulari sormak yok!

>   Dedigim gibi o konulardada yazariz yazmasina da zamanini
>   biz biliriz. Sen once YALANLARINI ve SAHTEKARLIGINI 
>   itiraf edip muslumanlardan ozur dile.
>
>   Diger net sakinlerinden ise ilgilenenler icin 
>   piyasada islam ekonimik sistemini anlatan kitaplar
>   mevcuttur. Lutfen en yakin kitapciniza gidiniz.
>   Detaylari vermek isterdim. Fakat KAYAnin kartini
>   isletmek istemem. Birde arayip bulunca daha zevkli oluyor
>   okumasi.

Tabii ki siz bilirsiniz ama kavgalari e-mail'de yapsaniz da
o yazilari buraya hatta daha iyisi s.r.i.'a yazsaniz ne iyi olur.
Alt tarafi bildiginiz ve inandiginiz bir seyi yazacaksiniz, buyuk bir
sirri aciga cikartmaniz istenmiyor.  Bunlari hangi kitaplarin
yazdigini soylemek nicin kart oynamak oluyor?  Ben anlamiyorum bu
halleri.  


BM
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:13644 soc.culture.europe:10856
From: ck@cs.tulane.edu (Cris Koutsougeras)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: The bleeding remains of thousands of poor innocent Turks, of women,...
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:35:15 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-1153]: isis

In article <9212272242@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:

>  'Greek Atrocities in the Vilayet of Smyrna (May to July 1919), Inedited
>  Documents and Evidence of English and French Officers,' Published by
>  The Permanent Bureau of the Turkish Congress at Lausanne, Lausanne,
>  Imprimerie Petter, Giesser & Held, Caroline, 5 (1919).
>
>  Excerpts from the Introduction (pages 1-6):
>
>  <<The Hellenic authorities with the profound experience that
>  characterises them in the oppression and extermination of the
>  allogeneous peoples who have fallen into their clutches, began,
>  immediately after the occupation, to put into force again their


Anonymous "officers"... published by the Bureau of the TURKISH Congress...
and repeated here by Argic who took over Mutlu (who BTW never denied
receiving support from Turkish propaganda forums although he was
repeatedly called to make a statement that he did not) and Cosar.

These fabrications of the Turkish propaganda are not even worth the
time responding to.  But it is amazing how these people think that it
is possible to twist history to that degree as to make the crimes of
their own forfathers (the Turkish) seem like crimes of those (the
Greeks) who really got murdered, raped, and burned down to ashes after
premeditated plans of extermination of everything non-turkish.  And
when such anti-turkish violence goes on until today (e.g. Kurds) they
must really consider us too damn naive if they think that this sort of
propaganda will convince us.

-ck
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet
From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Fraud & Libel on UseNet
Summary: the Cosar-Argic-Mutlu revisionist tag team 
Keywords: Bernard Lewis 
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:14:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.084934.8630@news.columbia.edu> vd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
(Vedat  Dogan) wrote:

[VD] [DD] "...the terrible holocaust of 1915, when a million and a half
[VD] [DD] Armenians perished..." 
[VD]
[VD] [VD]   is this the way you 'quote' from the books, Mr. Davidian..

[DD] Go to the library, get the book, and YOU quote from it! I gave you the 
[DD] reference...now go and check it out.
 
[VD] It is obvious that you think I don't have the book... 

If you have the book or have to go to the library for it is immaterial.
 
[VD] read below..

I did! The point of all this, sir, is that Bernard Lewis never said Armenians 
killed 2.5 million of anything. Turkish Genocide Apology has posted many times
on UseNet that Bernard Lewis did state such revisionism of history. You have 
failed to show that Bernard Lewis stated that Armenian killed 2.5 million 
anything. Thus, we have both demonstrated that the posting of the Cosar-Argic-
Mutlu revsionist machine are libelous and fraudulent. 

[DD] Sure, kill the messenger!
 
[VD]   no, no, kill the turkish goverment officers..
 
If you were not Turkish, the Cosar-Mutlu-Argic fools would take your above
line as proof of your support for terrorism. Let's see how fair-minded your
fascist friends are now!

-- 
David Davidian <dbd@urartu.sdpa.org> |"The massacres? Oh well! They merely  
S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | amuse me!"  -Talaat Pasha, architect of 
P.O. Box 382761                      | Turkish the genocide of Armenian people. 
Cambridge, MA 02238                  | (Four Years Beneath the Crescent, p 208)
From: erkin@nynexst.com (Erkin Cubukcu)
Subject: Learning English in US
Organization: NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 18:35:17 GMT

Recently I received a letter from a student at the Bilkent University.
What I understood from the letter is that she wants to learn English in the
US. She is asking what conditions she should satisfy and where she
can get more information. She is also asking if she could do this in the
summer break. Does anyone know any (summer) school offering 
English courses as a second language?

I would like to compile the responses and write to her.

Thanks for the info in advance.

-- 
Erkin Cubukcu                          Ph#:     (914) 644-2876
NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc.       Fax#:    (914) 644-2237
500 Westchester Ave. Rm# 2G-16B        e-mail:  erkin@nynexst.com
White Plains, NY 10604
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: lhermi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lotfi Hermi)
Subject: Bedouins and Cowboys
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 04:08:21 GMT


>Exactly. Whoever imitates the Americans becomes one of them. Whoever
>imitates the 7th century Bedouins becomes one of them.

Actually, bedouins and cowboys have some common points , like for example
their taste for adventure. The bedouins in a few decades established the
largest empire mankind has ever known. Pioneers of the 7th century, or
pioneers of the 20th century, we should follow always pioneers.

Lotfi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: twm27@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: I wish..
Reply-To: twm27@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 06:23:16 GMT

I wish that discussions about seriat and secular can be done in English.

You see, my Turkish is rusty nowadays...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: mucit@cs.rochester.edu (Bulent Murtezaoglu)
Subject: Re: ERBAKAN HOCA ve EKONOMIK PROGRAMI (Islamcilardan secmeler)
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Rochester
	<22959.9212241252@thor.cf.ac.uk> <29841@castle.ed.ac.uk>
Date: 25 Dec 92 14:51:41

In article <29841@castle.ed.ac.uk> emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral) writes:

>   In present banking system, a man who puts a certain amount to the bank
>   receives the money+a FIXED amount at the end of a period.  The fixed
>   amount is gained WITHOUT RISK since the bank is the guarantor.

There is no such thing as "without risk."  As far as I know, the reason why
the risk appears minimal is that the state/central bank/etc. keeps some
portion of the deposit by law and insures the deposits.  As the the value of
money isn't constant, it isn't even clear whether the "fixed" amount is really
fixed.  People seem to understand this in general, as whenever the bank
interest rates become unsatisfactory in real terms, money seems to move to
alternative investment tools as stocks, government bonds, etc. some of which
entail greater risks.

>   Now, my questions are:
>
>   IS IT JUST FOR A MAN TO MAKE MONEY WITH HIS MONEY WITHOUT ANY RISK?

I fail to see why justice is the relevant concept here.  It is his money, and 
the bank isn't coercing him.  It is just a contract between two consenting
parties.  As long as we assume people really own their money, I can see
no question concerning morality here.  


>   WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM?

The bank sells the money to other consenting parties.  We have banks
because there are people who are willing to deposit money to and borrow 
money from banks.  

>   Realise that I have not given an alternative, and only criticised.
>   However this is the first step, and if we are all willing to look
>   for an alternative, then we can discuss the further steps.  Then
>   we may search for references.

I have no argument with people believing that classical banking is unjust
or whatever.  If they have problems with what the banks are offering, there
are always other alternatives available today.  The freer the system
the more alternatives there are.  The beauty of freedom is that it is
not necessary for _all of us_ to be willing to look for an alternative
(as you said above) for the alternatives to exist.  One can just go ahead
and exercise his rights on his property in whatever way he wishes without
waiting for consensus on what he might be allowed to do.

As for references, many undergradute economics texts in the US would 
contain good enough answers to your questions about how banks work.  For
the morality issue, your scripture of choice is a good bet though scriptures
hardly ever give clear cut answers.  I suspect many books on socialism would 
also talk about not allowing property rights, and the "moral" justifications
of that.

I'm still curious what Erbakan's "changes" would be.  (see the subject).
One would assume that he has more concrete outlines for changes than
just slogans.  Are there anyone in the know in this crowd?

[stuff deleted]

BM
From: emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: DENEYEN VE FiKiR DEGiSTiREN ALLAH
Date: 30 Dec 92 14:39:53 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Dec29163125.AA54490@me.unda.edu> kg+02@me.unda.edu (Kaya Guralp) writes:
>      kirip biciyordunuz, ama Allah size arzuladiginiz zaferi gosterdikten 
>      sonra gevseyip bu hususta cekistiniz ve isyan ettiniz; sizden kimi
>      dunyayi; kimi ahireti istiyordu; derken denemek icin Allah sizi geri
>      cevirip bozguna ugratti.
>
> Bu ayette soylenen olay, DENEYEN VE FiKiR DEGiSTiREN ALLAH imajina uydugu
> herhangi bir problem yaratmamaktadir.

BILAKIS bu ayette de goruldugu gibi bir insanin basariya ulasmasi icin
Muslumanim demesi yetmiyor, Peygamberin sozunu dinlemesi gerekiyor.
Bu ayet Uhud savasinda tepeye konan okcularin ganimet sevdasiyla Peygamberin
emrine bas kaldirarak yerlerini terketmeleri akabinde zor durumda kalan
Muslumanlara hitap etmekte.  Sayin Kaya ise her zamanki gibi yine o alisilmis
uslubuyla bizi "aydinlatmakta." 

Demek ki insanlar ne kadar "ben Muslumanim" derse desin, yine denenecek
ve sadece soyledikleriyle degil daha da onemlisi ne yaptiklariyla
yargilanacaklardir, yargilaniyorlar.  Cenabi Hak'kin adaleti boyle olur.

Hamid
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr)
Subject: Xibo is a turkey?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: turkey argic-bait armenia genocide
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 12:37:34 GMT

In article <BzDtxI.G6A@world.std.com> kibo@world.std.com writes:
>"IS KIBO RELATED TO XIBO?"
>No.
>
>"WHAT'S A XIBO?"
>A bad bozo, who isn't allowed.
>
>"WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT XIBO?"
>I could if I wanted to.  See, I'm allowed to.  Xibo isn't allowed.  As
>the saying goes, "You're allowed, unless you're Harry, Glass, Xibo,
>Spot, Sandro Wallach, Noah Friedman (after midnight), or especially
>Patrick L. Obo."
>
>"WHO'S XIBO?"
>A very bad bozo, who still isn't allowed, no matter how much he whines
>about it.
>
>"WHERE'S XIBO?"
>Sittin' in his nowhere land, making all his nowhere .plans for nobody.
>
>"WHY IS XIBO SO FAR AWAY FROM KIBO?"
>Because they're on opposite sides of the real world.
From: emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: ERBAKAN HOCA ve EKONOMIK PROGRAMI (Islamcilardan secmeler)
Date: 23 Dec 92 11:39:48 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

Hubey writes;
>
>> If there is no interest there won't be any inflation.
>> Inflation is due to false profits banks gain from the people
>> through interest.  If you do not have interest this false profit
>> disappears, and you do not have inflation any more which makes poor
>> poorer and rich richer.
>
>This is not correct. The only way inflation can be stopped is if
>prices of all goods and wages and salaries are frozen. As long 
>as the farmer wants more for his wheat, the memur wants a raise,
>the bakkal wants to make a profit, there will always be inflation.
>
>Interest is just a way to take this into account. There was inflation
>throughout the Ottoman times.

>............

Do you justify then that a men who do not produce anything but just
by putting money into bank gaining so much money that he becomes like
a Saudi petro-millionaire, a fatso; and while a man who works so much that
his underwear sticks to his body from sweat, and still suffers from
low living conditions due to low wages?

I also would like to ask you:  Where does the money come from to pay
to the fatso?  Why is he legally able to claim a share in it?

If this is your understanding of justice, then this discussion needs
not to continue.  Because I do not think that at the end what we are
aiming is the same.  My aim is to achieve peace through establishing a just
system, not an unjust system where at the end we have unhealthy social
structures both domestically and internationally.

>hubey

Hamid
From: cekin@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us (cem ekin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: KAYA ILE ILGILI FETVA ( Duzeltilmis)
Date: 26 Dec 1992 13:10:15 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


***************************************************************************
               KAYA ILE ILGILI FETVA VE SEBEBLERI
   20 Aralik 1992 de yillik fetva toplantisini yapan "KUZEY AMERIKA
   DOGRULAR KOMITESI" su kararlari almistir; ( Guvenlik acisindan
   toplanti yer ve zamani tam olarak aciklanmayacakdir.)
   
   Baglayici Kararlar
   
   1. Soc.culture. Turkishde surekli olarak Islamiyetin temel kaynak-
   larini carpitarak, Islam ve muslumanlar aleyhine yanlis kanaat uyan
   dirmaya calisan KAYANIN baslica suclari sunlardir;
     
     a. Ayetlerde olmayan kelimeleri ayetlere eklemek,
     b. Kasitli olarak yanlis ceviri yapmak
     c. Ayetleri icinde bulunduklari ortamdan cikarip, ayetlerin anlamini
     degistirmek.
     d. Hz Peygamber (sav) ilgili cirkin iftiralarda bulumak, bunlarida
     Amerkada Yahudu donmesi olan ve su Amerikada BAHAHilein parasi ile 
     yasayan, karisi Turk turizm sirketleinde birinde calisan 
     Ilhan Arsel'in kitabi ile Turan Dursunun kitablarindan yapmak.
     e.Kendisinin ayetleri ve olaylari saptirdigi ortaya konunca, cevap
     bile vermeyrek kotu niyetini ortaya koymasi
     
  nedeniyle, Turkiyeli YEHOVA SAHITLERINDEN olmasi ihtimali kuvvetli olan
  University of North Coroline'den yazan KAYA GURALP takma adiyla yazan
  sahsin Komitemizin asagidaki sayili ve tarihli karari ile;
  
  Karar: Kaya ile ilgili Fetva
  Sayi :34547648
  Tarih:20 Aralik 1992
  Komite:...........(isimler sakli)
  
  RUH VE SINIR HASTALIKLARI HASTAHANSINE  gonderilmesine karar verilmistir.
  
   TAVSIYE KARARLARI:
   
   1.  Sayin  Coloradodan yazan Remzi Cirit,Ingiltereden Beytullah  Cetiner,
    Ercan O. Temel, Lami  Yeni Zelandadan  Hakkinin  bundan sonra butun 
    foyalari ortaya cikan Kaya ile ugrasmamalari tavsiye edilir.
    
   2. Sayin Telat Yanika da son zamanlarda kufurlerine son verdigi icin 
   tesekur karari alinmistir.
   
                               Komite adina
                              Yurutme Kurulu Baskani
                              Cem Ekinci
  *****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: kg+02@me.unda.edu (Kaya Guralp)
Subject: DENEYEN VE FiKiR DEGiSTiREN ALLAH
Organization: University of Dakota, School of Engineering
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:31:25 GMT


 Kuran'da Peygamber'in emin oldugu seylerden sonra, dediginin yanlis cikmasi
 uzerine soyledigi bahaneler de bulunmaktadir. Ornegin, bir savas oncesinde
 Allah inananlara zafer mujdesi verir. Ama gelgelelim, savas kaybedilir.
 Bu peygamberi guc durumda birakmis olmali ki, ``yeniyordunuz ama Allah sizi
 denemek icin bozguna ugratti'' diyen bir ayet gelir. 

 Ali Imran Suresi
  152 And olsun ki, Allah size verdigi sozde durdu. Onun izniyle kafirleri
      kirip biciyordunuz, ama Allah size arzuladiginiz zaferi gosterdikten 
      sonra gevseyip bu hususta cekistiniz ve isyan ettiniz; sizden kimi
      dunyayi; kimi ahireti istiyordu; derken denemek icin Allah sizi geri
      cevirip bozguna ugratti.

 Bu ayette soylenen olay, DENEYEN VE FiKiR DEGiSTiREN ALLAH imajina uydugu
 herhangi bir problem yaratmamaktadir.

 saygilarimla
 ------------
 kaya
From: speeo@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr Ercan Otemel 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: iNSAN iRADESi VE iSLAM
Date: 26 Dec 92 14:33:01 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

In article <29842@castle.ed.ac.uk> emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral) writes:
|In article <1992Dec24184210.AA17016@me.unda.edu> kg+02@me.unda.edu (Kaya Guralp) writes:
|
|SECME SACMALAR:
|=================
|
|>  Insan iradesinin olmadigini, herseyin Allah'in emirleri dogrultusunda
|   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|>  gerceklesmesi gerektigini one suren Islam, Kuran'daki hatalari
|>  reddeder ve Kuran'a kesinlikle uyulmasi gerektigini emreder. Kucuk bir
|                                                                ^^^^^^^^^
|>  insan topluluguna gore ve belirli bir bolge icin ortaya cikmis olan
|   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|>  Islam'in buyuk kitleleri yonetmek icin gerekli dinamik politikayi
|   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|>  baskisiz gudemeyecegi asikardir. Cunku Islam dini duragandir ve kimse 
|   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|>  bunu degistiremez.
|   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|>
|
|Sacmalar %80 sinirini da asmis.  Durum gittikce fecaatlesiyor :-).

Ben size daha once demedimmi ?


|
|> saygilarimla
|:-(
|
|> ------------
|> kaya
From: KELLY@SUVM.SYR.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Istiklal Harbi ve Mustafa Kemal-2
Date: 26 Dec 1992 19:43:28 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

  Dr. Riza Nur, 'Hayat ve Hatiratim,' Altindag Yayinevi, Beyazid-
  Beyazsaray, Zemin Kat Nu: 39, Istanbul (1967). Nasiri: Heidi Schmit,
  4100 Duisburg 11, Deutschland.

 c.3, s.883:

 <<Sakarya Harbi bitince ben hareket etmezden evvel iki sey olmustu.
 Mustafa Kemal hareket etmeden evvel, Meclis'ten kendisine gazi unvani
 ve mu$irlik verilmesini istedi. Herkes 'Canim bu adam ne oluyor? Neler
 istiyor? Bunlari ne yapacak?' diyordu. Ve yine 'Galiba bu adam padisah
 olmak pesindedir. Simdiden onlar gibi tugrasina 'el-Gazi' yazmak icin
 bu unvani istiyor. Hazir firsattir diyor.' diyorlardi.

 $u adam muthis bir mahluktur. Ve Nutkunda 'Meclis bana Gazi unvani verdi'
 diyor. Halbuki boyle sey kimsenin aklina gelmedi. Sakarya Harbi'nde
 verdigi ric'at emri, kacmak icin yaverini yollayip esyasini denk yaptir-
 digi da herkesin malumu idi. Kendi istedi. Meclis ise 'Olmaz' dedi.
 Kiyamet koptu. Nihayet tehdid altinda ve kendi adamlarinin takrir ve
 $unu bunu ile gazi unvanini aldi. Mu$irlige itiraz etmemislerdi. Birkac
 gun gecince de 'Bana Meclis dort milyon lira nakdi mukafat versin' dedi.
 Herkes Meclis'te bir daha kizdi ve kopurdu. Tuhaf ve nedense Hamdullah
 Suphi de telas ve cok itiraz etti. Bu para aleyhine cok propaganda yapti.
 Kendisine gidip 'Isteme! Butun haysiyetin gidiyor' dedi. Ben de hatta
 Ismet'e Adnan'a soyledim. 'Canim su adama soyleyin, para filan istemesin.
 Seref ve haysiyetinden bir sey kalmaz, olur.' dedim. Butun Meclis 'Olmaz'i
 bastirdi. Mustafa Kemal bir milyona indi. Yine 'Olmaz' dediler. Hasili
 Meclis para vermeyiz dedi ve vermedi. Mustafa Kemal bir muddet ugrasti
 Bakti olmuyor, vazgecti. Hem boyle bir sey lazimsa Meclis kendi verir.
 Bu, kendisi ister, adeti budur. SIkIlmaz.

 Nutukta bu para meselesini hic soylemiyor.>>

 c.3, s.887-888:

 <<Meclis'te Mustafa Kemal aleyhine muhalefet arttikca artmis, Kara
 Vasif da bunlara iltihak etmis. Rauf ise yine iki yuzlu kilic halinde,
 her iki tarafi da kesiyor. Ikinci Grup iyice tebellur etmis. Bunlar
 Mustafa Kemal'i fena sIkIstIrIyorlar......

 Sakarya Zaferi gibi muhim ve hayati bir zaferin arifesinde Baskumandan'a
 boyle yapiliyor. Denmesi lazimdir ki ''Ne nankorluktur?'' Fakat meselenin
 ic yuzu var. Baskumandan layik bir adam degil. Baskumandanligi zorla
 kabul ettirmisiz. Insan oyle bir gunde derhal kabul ederdi. Bir defa
 herkes bundan dolayi Mustafa Kemal'den buz gibi sogumustu. Sonra bu herif
 en can alacak anda ricat emri vermis, esyasini baglatti kaciyordu, onune
 durdular. Zabitlerin kanlari bahasina Yunan ordusu def edilince, Meclis'ten
 Gazilik, mu$irlik, milyonlarla paralar mukafat istedi. Bunlari Meclis
 biliyor. Son haddinde ayyaslik, rezilane fuhus, dalaverecilik ve emsalini de
 biliyorlar. Tabii boyle bir adami nasil sever? Ona yapacagi muamele tipki
 budur. Hasili ekseriyet simdi Mustafa Kemal'in siddetle aleyhinde...>>

Nejat
From: bakd@tet.uni-hannover.de (Birol Akdemir)
Subject: Re: Futbolda Reform ?(Sporda reform?)
Reply-To: bakd@tet.uni-hannover.de
Organization: Institut f. Theoretische Elektrotechnik, Univ. Hannover
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:04:29 GMT

Merhaba arkadaslar !

Daha oncedeki bu konu useri mail'lere katiliyorum. Cirv altyapiylada
bitmiyor bu is! Mesala Afrika'dan gelen futbolcular senginmi? Yede
onlarin Turkiyde ki ayni chance'lari var mi, hayir! Ama onlar kalpe
ulkesine oynuyorlar! 
Hem turk gazetelerin yapti sey de iyi degil, her onemli mactan evel:
BIZ YENICEYIZ, BUKADAR GOL ATACAGIZ....
Yani halkta bir beklenti oluyor, o beklentide olmuyorsa her kes usuluyor :-(((
 
Birde sunu soylemek istiyorum:
Gercekce bakilirsa biz(Turkler) hangi spordalarinda basariliris:
Olumpiyatlarda, dunyakupalarda,... 
Gures, box, halter, karate hep dovusle ilgili seyler!
 Hem bu dalarda'da her zamanda basarili olmuyorus! Bazan birizi
Bulgaristan'dan Turkiye geliyor, ve bizim icin altin aliyor(ne mutlu),
ama Turkiye onu yetistirmediki !
Benim demek istetim su, Turkiye'de cogunlukla hersey futbolla
bakiyor, ama futbolun basariliklarini(basarilikzilini) biliyorus.
Futboldan baska daha da spor var, onlarada yani yukle yardim edilmesi lasim!

Hadi hoscakalin 
                  Asta la vista
                                 Birol

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Birol Akdemir
Adress :
e-mail: bakd@tet.uni-hannover.de
"Hey Soctty beam me up "