HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bob.kenyon@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Bob Kenyon) 
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: XMAS 1847
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:44:00 GMT
Reply-To: bob.kenyon@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Bob Kenyon) 
Distribution: world
Organization: Freddy's Place BBS - Edmonton, AB - 403-456-4241

                  CHRISTMAS AT FORT EDMONTON - 1847


 "No tablecloth shed its snowy whiteness over the board; no silver
 candelabra or gaudy china interfered with its simple magnificence.
 The bright tin plates and dishes reflected golly faces, and
 burnished gold can give no truer zest to a feast...

 ...At the head, before Mr. Harriett, was a large dish of boiled
 buffalo hump; at the foot smoked a boiled buffalo calf...My
 pleasing duty was to help a dish of mouffle, or dried moose nose;
 the gentleman on my left distributed with graceful impartiality,
 the white fish, delicately browned in buffalo marrow. The worthy
 priest helped the buffalo, whilst Mr. Rundell cut up beaver tails.
 Nor was the other gentleman left unemployed, as all his time was
 occupied in dissecting a roast goose. The centre of the table was
 graced with piles of potatoes, turnips, and bread conveniently
 placed, so that each could help himself without interrupting the
 labours of his companions. Such was our jolly Christmas dinner at
 Edmonton; and long will it remain in my memory, although no pies,
 or pudding, or blane manges, shed their fragrance over the scene.

 From:

 WANDERINGS OF AN ARTIST AMONG THE INDIANS OF NORTH AMERICA

 Paul Kane

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Merry Christmas

Bob Kenyon, Trainer III                FREDDY'S PLACE BBS
Edmonton Regional Council              (403)456-4241
Edmonton, AB. Canada

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


 * SLMR 2.1a * Taglines make great Christmas gifts!
                                                                                                  
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: macman@bernina.ethz.ch (Danny Schwendener)
Subject: Re: scouting mailing list?
Organization: Peppermint Software Inc.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 10:55:06 GMT

lucien@watson.ibm.com (Lucien Van Elsen) writes:
>I've heard there's a mailing list for Scouting-related discussions, but I
>didn't find any reference to it in the list of listserv lists, and I
>wasn't able to find a FAQ for this group.  If there is such a list, can
>anyone send me the information necessary to subscribe to it?  Thanks!

Send an e-mail to listserv@tcubvm.bitnet containing the following line
as message body:
	SUBSCRIBE SCOUTS-L "Lucien Van Elsen"


-- Danny Schwendener         macman@bernina.ethz.ch
   Wolfsmeute Nidau/Glockenhof, Sihlstr. 33, CH-8001 Zurich, Switzerland
   m.h.c. Troop 14, San Francisco            
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: hunter@master.lds-az.loral.com (Bill Hunter)
Subject: Re: "Official" Policies
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: Loral Defense Systems - Arizona
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:55:24 GMT

On the subject of offical policies, it has been my experience from reading
BSA national Charter, Policy and policy letters that they are careful to
use the words Shall meaning a requirement without exception, and the word
may, should, recommended, etc meaning it's your call.

We have very few "real" requirements in this program.  Most concern safety
and liability. Things are very open ended; and intentionally so.  That way
each sponsor can mold the program to its own particular needs.

Have a merry Christmas and keep the principles of scouting close; the rest
will fall in place.

Bill Hunter
Scoutmaster, The Vertical Edge
Loral Defense Systems - Arizona
1300 S. Litchfield Rd.
Goodyear, AZ  85338
PH 602 925 7929  Fax 602 925 6988
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: lucien@watson.ibm.com (Lucien Van Elsen)
Subject: scouting mailing list?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:09:10 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J Watson Research Center

I've heard there's a mailing list for Scouting-related discussions, but I
didn't find any reference to it in the list of listserv lists, and I
wasn't able to find a FAQ for this group.  If there is such a list, can
anyone send me the information necessary to subscribe to it?  Thanks!

	-Lucien
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucien Van Elsen                                          IBM  Research
lucien@watson.ibm.com                                     Project Agora
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU (Dennis J. Wilkinson)
Subject: Re: Hangmans Noose
Reply-To: pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:39:24 GMT

In article <BzMIyF.HxH@news.iastate.edu>, wjturner@iastate.edu (William J Turner) writes:
>
>Not only that, but it can be very dangerous!  If the two ropes are not
>*EXACTLY* the same (in other words, the two ends of the same rope) the
>square knot *WILL* slip.  Therefore, about the only purpose it is
>specifically suited for is first-aid, where you may tie a bandage on
>a victim.  

Reef knots slip under a variety of circumstances, mostly related either to
different sized ends being knotted or uneven pull. Under load, a reef knot can
remove over 50% of the load-bearing strength of the lines tied together because
of the way force is opposed in the knot (I'm not a physicist, but this is what
I've seen printed in various books). 

Actaully, the main reason that a reef knot is tied on bandages is because it
makes it extremely easy to UNTIE the knot, especially with forceps - grab the
two bights of the knot and pull in opposite directions. Not that that makes much
difference to a surgeon with a pair of gauze scissors... :-).

As far as teaching knots is concerned, teach your Scouts in the same manner, and
with the same information, as is shown in their Handbooks (or whatever
literature they're using as a reference) so that if they need to look it up on
their own, the information won't confuse them by conflicting. You should only
conflict (and this is a personal opinion) is when there's a possible saftey
hazard, as with a load-bearing reef (square) knot.

I wonder if anyone's ever mentioned this problem to the people who churn out
handbooks (for the BSA, at least...)

Related to all this talk of knots, how many of you out there can tie both right-
and left-handed??? Just a curiousity... I've found it helps if you have to teach
a lefty knots, particularly things like the bowline and sheet bend.
----------------------------------------------------
Dennis J. Wilkinson, II  (pnsf01dw@umassd.edu)
University of Massachusetts Dartmouth - Design/CS Project

The opinions reflected in this post are MINE!!!! ALL MINE!!!!!
From: gorka@mizar.usc.edu (Michael Gorka)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: "Official" Policies
Date: 21 Dec 1992 11:47:39 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

	In response to Stans question of "Official" policy, I can speak of the
Policy for the Rio Hondo District, Los Angeles Area Council. This information
is provided at the Roundtables and at Scoutmaster training.

	1. Board of Review not advancing a boy..
		Sorry, no experience with this one except that the
		Eagle Board has on rare occasion refused to act on
		an application, thereby effectivly not advancing
		the boy.

	2. Board of Review Membership
		Scoutmasters, Assistant Scoutmasters and a boys
		parent(or guardian may not sit on a Board.

	3. Merit Badge Counselors
		All applications for Merit Badge Counselors, no
		matter if they are in troop or general, are reviewed
		and approved by the District Advancement Chair.
		A Scoutmaster may, as scoutmaster, sign for Camping,
		Cooking and Hiking, but no other badges unless
		he/she is registered as a counselor.

Mike Gorka
Assistant Scoutmaster
Troop 546, Whittier CA
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wjturner@iastate.edu (William J Turner)
Subject: Re: Hangmans Noose
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:18:14 GMT


I agree that there are possible uses for *ANY* knot other than what is 
normally taught.  However, you need to be careful to make sure a knot is
strong enough to do the job, especially if it involves a risk to life or
limb.  In particular, I agree whole-heartedly with the following statement:

In article <KIRAVUO.92Dec21181237@lesti.hut.fi> kiravuo@hila.hut.fi writes:
>
>There is only one thing I am really worried about when teaching
>knots. The improper use of square knot. Every scout book I have
>seen says that the square knot is used for "joining two ropes of
>equal thickness". And this is bunk. The square knot has a
>tendency to unravel, if the knot is disturbed in some way. In
>practice this means that if you join two lines with a square knot
>and use that as a fastening line for your boat, you may
>experience difficulties in finding your boat the next morning. 

Not only that, but it can be very dangerous!  If the two ropes are not
*EXACTLY* the same (in other words, the two ends of the same rope) the
square knot *WILL* slip.  Therefore, about the only purpose it is
specifically suited for is first-aid, where you may tie a bandage on
a victim.  Unfortunately, this not that well known, and because it is
so easy to remember, the square knot has become *THE MOST DANGEROUS KNOT*.

This information is all from a wonderful book I bought a year and a half
ago and used to teach knots to scouts at summer camp.  If any one is
interested, the book is called THE ASHLEY BOOK OF KNOTS (or something like
that) and has something like 4000 knots.  I got it for about $45 (US) at
Waldon Books.  I love this book!!!



Weuchsowagan -- Will


Will Turner
ASM Troop 182, Ankeny, Iowa, Mid-Iowa Council
Eagle Scout class of 1987
Vigil Honor member of the Mitigwa Lodge #450, Order of the Arrow
Scoutcraft Director, Camps Mitigwa and Wapello, 1991



-- 
Will Turner,  N0RDV		 --------------------------------
wjturner@iastate.edu		| Whatever the mind can conceive |
twp77@isuvax.iastate.edu	| and believe, it can achieve.   |
TURNERW@vaxld.ameslab.gov	 --------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: ggardner@dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU (Grant David Gardner)
Subject: Joining Ropes (was Re: Hangmans noose) 
Originator: ggardner@leather.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU
Keywords: knots ropes
Reply-To: ggardner@dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU (Grant David Gardner)
Organization: CSIRO Division of Mathematics and Statistics, Australia
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:38:38 GMT


   Interesting discussion regarding the Hangmans noose,
Rumours about its alledged illegality were rife here in Australia
when I was just a scout. 

	Anyway in one of the articles Re:Hangmans noose Dennis J Wilkinson
wrote 
>The reef knot isn't designed to bear
>weight (it's for closing packages, really) and under a heavy load will do one of
>two things - slip completely, or break (it weakens line severly). Use a sheet
									^^^^^^^^
>bend for joining lines (even if they're DIFFERENT sizes!)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well for all our rope joining purposes when the load on the rope is going
to be US! (ie abseiling) the only knot we ever use to join rope of EQUAL
thicknesses is a double fishermans. (The knot used to make a prussick loop)
	This knot has the advantage of keeping the rope in a straight line,
reducing the sideways stresses on the rope. We only ever use
kernmantle ropes but I see no reason why it would knot (Ha Ha) work with
other types. (Although they may be hard to undo)
	I do agree however that a sheet bend is the most suitable knot for
joining unequal thicknesses, or different types,  of rope.

_________________________________________________________________________________
Grant Gardner.
Crew Leader.
1st Kissing Point Rover Crew,
Sydney Australia.

e-mail- ggardner@dmmsyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU
_________________________________________________________________________________


Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: hunter@master.lds-az.loral.com (Bill Hunter)
Subject: Scout Death
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: Loral Defense Systems - Arizona
Distribution: U.S.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:50:40 GMT

Subject of hangmans noose and pros and cons, for informtion I had a boy
"die accidently" from autoerotic aphixia.  His mother found him hanging in
the backyard one morning.  He learned the knot from a friend in another
Troop.  You just never know what kids will do!

My philosohy has always been:  Never give a kid a loaded gun.

Bill Hunter
Scoutmaster, The Vertical Edge
Loral Defense Systems - Arizona
1300 S. Litchfield Rd.
Goodyear, AZ  85338
PH 602 925 7929  Fax 602 925 6988
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
Subject: Re: Santa Clause
Reply-To: mwilson@orl.mmc.com
Organization: Martin Marietta Orlando
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:55:21 GMT

In article lkbr2hb@lynx.unm.edu, anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo) writes:
>Relevance to rec.scouting... Well, I always remember as a Cub getting
>to meet Santa at our December pack meeting. 

Our pack has an annual visit from Santa. The Scouts get pinewood derby kits
(park of the pack budget plan) and siblings get a small gift. The guys who have been 
in a while know what's going on, but they still get in line.

---
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson                              Martin Marietta E,I & M Group
mwilson@orl.mmc.com                      Mail Point 170
Phone: (407)356-6386                     P.O. Box 555837
Fax:   (407)436-5482                     Orlando, FL, 32855-5837
My opinions are my opinions, Martin Marietta can speak for itself.

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: ag279@yfn.ysu.edu (Robert C. Knollman)
Subject: Re: Wanted:  Advancement Tracking Sftw.
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:01:46 GMT


I can validate this endorsement for Troopmaster.
We have used both the APPLE II and IBM versions
in our troop (not my job, though, Thank Heavens :))
and seem to find it able to keep track of the details.  Works 
GRAT Grate[A[D  

Great if you can put it on a lap top and take it meetings
Bob Knollman
SA  T940 BSA
Wet Chester Ohio
usr111
usr11439@cbos.uc.edu

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: sc6933506@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg (CALVIN NG)
Subject: Scouting in Thailand
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 02:32:20 GMT

I have been to Thailand rather recently, and every where I went, I can see
boys and girls in the scout uniform.

I am not sure whether this is practised anywhere else, but I was really
impressed, the scouts helped performed duties such as helping students
crossing the road, ... etc.

Some of the teachers are in uniform too, I won't be surprised if they teach
in their uniform.

Such scenes makes me respect them, it shows their committment to the Scout
Movement.  If only such things are practised in my country too.  The boys
here don't really enjoy wearing the uniform, far less respect it.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:  The above is solely my personal opinion, and does not reflect
	the view of my club, school, friends, .......

					    email: SC6933506@NTUVAX.NTU.AC.SG

"Rather fail with Honour than Succeed by fraud"
From: brianm@cara.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Brian Moretta)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Webelos - Summer Camp
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:20:46 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

Although I don't know for certain I suspect that there will be no special
events on at that time. The English school holidays don't start til the middle
or end of July so they'll have nothing on then.

The Scottish schools break up earlier - about end June/start July. I don't 
remember seeing anything in particular on then but if you want I can
have a look. 

Brian Moretta
brianm@cara.ma.hw.ac.uk

Dept Act Maths and Stats
Heriot-Watt University
Edinburgh
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: cdavies@ToonTown.ess.harris.com (Charlie Davies)
Subject: Re: Joining Ropes (was Re: Hangmans noose)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:45:46 GMT
Reply-To: cdavies@ToonTown.ess.harris.com
Organization: Harris Government Aerospace Systems Division


---
Just a thought to pass on to the boys on the art of "KNOTS".

A "KNOT" is used to join the ends of A (one) rope together.
A "BEND" is used to join 2 or more ropes together.
A "HITCH" is used to attach a rope to something other than anthor rope.

---

   \_\_\_\_    \_\_\_\_\_  \_\_\_\_   \ Charlie Davies           
  \_       \_   \_          \_     \_  \                          
   \_            \_          \_      \_ \ Harris Corp. - GASD      
    \_            \_\_\_      \_      \_ \ P.O. Box 94000           
     \_            \_          \_      \_ \ MS 19/4827               
      \_       \_   \_          \_     \_  \ Melbourne, Florida 32934 
        \_\_\_\_     \_\_\_\_\_  \_\_\_\_   \                          
                                             \ Voice: 407-727-6235      
         email:cdavies@su19x.ess.harris.com   \ Pager: 407-690-8518      
          CCmail:harris.cdavies@ic1d.harris.com\ FAX:   407-727-4016
From: prs@oasis.icl.co.uk (Peter Swynford)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: WINDSOR INTERNATIONAL CAMP 1993
Date: 24 Dec 92 10:53:00 GMT
Organization: ICL, Bracknell, Berkshire, RG12 4SN, UK



For those of you who enjoy international camps...

Announcing WINGS 93

* Windsor INternational Guide and Scout camp

* located in Windsor Great Park,
  Windsor, Berkshire, England
  (next to the Castle)

* 31st July - 8th August 1993

* approx 4000 campers

* bookings now being taken

* hundreds of on-site and off-site activities

* Scouts and Guides are welcome from all countries

* only 40 pounds for the week (70 pounds including food)

E-Mail me if you want an application form.

Peter.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--... ...--      -.. .      --. ----- .--. ..- -...      -.-
Peter Swynford is available... tel:+44 344 424842 x 2625 / fax:+44 344 489280
or at prs@oasis.icl.co.uk ..!uunet!mcsun!ukc!iclbra!prs  G0PUB@GB7RDG.GBR.EU
Disclaimer: See Paragraph 2.4.a of section 1.a (article 7) (iii) of the
            Town and Country Planning Act, 1967.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: arklein@pica.army.mil (Arnold S. Klein)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Klondike Derby
Date: 28 Dec 92 16:21:03 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Distribution: usa
Organization: Picatinny Arsenal, NJ

I would like to get some new idea's for running the towns in a Klondike
Derby. I want to set up manual for running this type of event for my
council.

Arnold S. Klein at Armament Reasearch, Development and Engineering Center
Picatinny Arsenal New jersey USA  E-Mail arklein@pica.army.mil
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: scouting mailing list?
Organization: Summit NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 17:16:23 GMT

Dave Pollak writes:

>I am a webelos scout and I was wondering if anyone had ideas for pack 
>trips in central New Jersey.
>
>-Ari Pollak, Pack 250, East Brunswick, New Jersey

For my Webelos Den Traveler award 6 years ago, we mapped out the route
to High Point.  It's probably about 1.5 hours one way from East Brunswick.
I understand there's some rock museum in that area, so it's possible
to work in the Geologist award too on that trip.

For some educational experiences, I would suggest Washington's Crossing
State Park, on the Pennsylvania side.  There's a visitor's center with
about 1/2 hour movie (plan to go there next Christmas Day to see the
reenactment of the crossing).  I would also recommend the historical
district in Philadelphia (state with the visitor's center and movie),
then Independence Hall, the Liberty Bell, and if a business day,  the U.S.
mint.  There's also Valley Forge, PA;  I think they may have some program
for Scouts.

For your Sportsman award, learning at a Den meeting on how to keep score,
followed by 2 or 3 games at a bowling alley, meets one of the requirements.
To cut costs, I asked for bowling coupon donations from the Entertainment
books.

For some fun, try for a baseball game at Veterans Stadium (even when
the Mets play the Phillies, there are usually seats available).  My
Cub Scout Pack in the 1950's (from Atlantic City) once went to a game
at the old Connie Mack Stadium in Philadelphia.

Hope this helps.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 27 Dec 1992 00:28:15 CST
From: MATT HUNSAKER <U61474@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Hangman's Noose

I'm pleased to see that rec.scouting is serving scouting again. The last time I
read, it was overwhelmed with articles from people who disagreed with the
policies of B.S.A.  Nice to see scout stuff again.

About the hangman's noose, I learned how to tie it back when I was a scout, by
reading it out of a book.  Scouts can find it there too.  A knot is a knot.
I disagree with the "don't teach this not, they will go out and hang them self"
post.  I'f this were the case, we would ban axes, knives, and fires because of
the potential for misuse.(ie. if you teach them to build fires, they MIGHT
start a forest fire.) If you refuse to teach the hangman's noose, I'll bet
that some scout will find it in a book and show every scout they know.

As for the square knot, it is commonly used to join the ends of rappelling
seats,( by the U.S. Rangers), with an overhand on either end. It is quite a
bit easier to tie in the field in a variety of situations where your hands are
gloved or wet, etc.  Fancy knots that are incorrectly tied= fatal mistakes.

Teach scouts ALL the knots you can, because they may find a use for it  on down
 the road.
-Matt
From: dan@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Dan Parmenter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.strips
Subject: Re: Worst Comics. Was (Re: Jim's Journal)
Date: 29 Dec 92 20:48:26 GMT
	<Bzo24r.JDL@unix.amherst.edu>
	<1992Dec23.023444.6936@lokkur.dexter.mi.us>
Organization: /home/fsg/dan/.organization

I believe Jon was a cartoonist.  I had forgotten completely about
Lyman.  It was a cool little strip at one point.  In recent months the
Sunday strips have been getting increasingly bizarre, with occasional
flashes of inspiration (hard to believe).  I chalk this up to the fact
that with a lot of these "committee" strips (writing staff,
pencillers, inkers, etc.) have separate sunday and daily staffs (with
plenty of crossover of course).  The Sunday strip might be in the
hands of some slightly crazed rookie.  There was one episode a few
weeks back involving Odie's tongue that, had it been part of a "Ren
and Stimpy" episode would have gotten lots of yoks.  The Sunday artist
also seems to fool around with the logo in occasionally interesting
ways. 

I'd like to know just what the division of labor on that strip is.
Does Jim Davis do *any* of it?  Or does he function more or less as an
editor, setting creative policy and hiring other people to do it all?
Does he pencil?  Is the division of labor penciller/inker in the art?

Garfield at its worst sure beats US Acres though.

Oh yeah, worst comic strip?  Uh, "Beauty and the Beast" or "Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles".  The former is a shoddy, uninspired tie-in to
the popular media blitz done by anonymous hacks.  The latter is a
shoddy, uninspired tie-in to the popular media sensation done by hacks
who sign their names (except when it's drawn by the nation's 8 year
olds, who occasionally draw it better than the real thing).

- Dan
--
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dan Parmenter       |"I'm waiting for a time, when I can do without these  |
| dan@gnu.ai.mit.edu  | things that make me feel this way all of the time"   |
|                     |                            - Spiritualized           |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.strips