HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sight picture and eyes
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:20:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: vincent2.viking.718590446
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes lots of excellent stuff, and
deserves praise from the rest of us.  I'll just add a little:

#A young person can rapidly shift focus from near to far. The shift is
#so rapid that both the sights and the target seem in focus at once. As
#we age, our ability to rapidly change focus declines, and we start to
#let the target fuzz out while keeping the sights sharp.

	The muscles in the eyes that control this can be consciously
controlled.  It's a strange feeling, but they can be exercised.  One
method I used was to look through a screened window from a distance of
about six inches.  Look at the screen, look at the yard, look at the
screen, look at the yard.  Anything where you continuously focus from
near to far and back is good exercise.  The focusing mechanism are
muscles on the eyeball that literally squash it out of shape.  By
exercising these, you can make them stronger and quicker.  Do this
one eye at a time, and carefully note if your times are getting
slower or your vision deteriorating.  Personally, I'd check with an
optometrist before doing this, but it did work for me when I was
too young and stupid to bother with eye doctors.  Just as not
everyone can build muscles like Arnold Schwartzenegger, not everybody
will build eye muscles the same way, so consult your eye doctor.
I use it these days to consciously stretch my eyes so as to avoid
fatigue in the muscles from staring at a screen a fixed distance away
from me all the time.

	It also works when staring down a barrel for extended periods,
like at the range when I just can't seem to get the target lined up
in the sights and my vision is starting to blurr.  Your milage may vary.
From: mark@pdx.csd.mot.com (Mark O'Shea)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock adoption
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:22:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: mcspdx.1385
Organization: Motorola CSD, Beaverton, OR


In article <1992Oct5.184326.15014@ohsu.edu> kozowski@ohsu.EDU (Eric Kozowski) writes:
#In article <1992Oct3.003922.5337@latcs1.lat.oz.au> jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John  
#Dimogotsis) writes:
## 
## 	Has the Glock been adopted by any large organization, police-force or
## military?
## 								Thanks.
#
#It was adopted by the Portland, Or. PD acouple of years ago (2?), but they are  
#now in the process of getting rid of them.  They have had nothing but problems  
#with them.

This is incorrect.  They had problems with a few of them.  Glock fixed the
problem and offered to modify all other guns regardless of the existance
of the problem.  The PPD is now reviewing the situation.  

In a conversation I had yesterday with a PPD officer, he indicated they are
still in favor of the Glocks and will probably stay with them.

Mark O'Shea
Gun Control is the Ability to Hit Your Target
From: ucsd!sdsu!hercules.SDSU.EDU!news@uunet.UU.NET (Alan Young)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: SIG 226 9mm
Date: 10 Oct 92 13:39:31 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University, Math Dept.

I saw a movie called FEDS (with beautiful Rebecca DeMornay) not too long ago 
and in one scene they had SIG 226 (not 100% sure about the model number) 9mm. 
I gathered from the dialogue that this handgun is a very good one, able to 
handle different load powers, so on and so forth. It was a great looking gun 
indeed.
Can anybody shed light about what this gun is, the exact model, how good it
really is and where I can write to get a manual?

All responses greatly appreciated,

Alan


-- 
# Alan B. Young		         |
# Computer Science Dept.         |
# San Diego State University     | 
# Internet: young@saturn.sdsu.edu|
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Colt Army Special revolver
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:15:18 GMT


I'm considering buying the subject firearm, and I'm trying to get
an approximate date of manufacture.

Colt Army Special, .38 Special, blue finish, 6" barrel, walnut grips

Patent dates on top of barrel, "Colt Army Special .38" (or such) on
left side of barrel, serial no. on frame hidden by crane when
closed, "T" in a triangle mark on left side of frame, "3" on left 
side of trigger guard.

"BWS" on left side of frame, and "CITY OF NEW YORK" in a circle around
it.

Anybody with Colt references able to date this piece? Thanks in advance.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Loaded Clips
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:53:48 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <1992Oct2.013508.21791@lever.com> ee@lever.com (Edward Elhauge) writes:
#In article <9209300801.aa11961@sco1.qdeck.com> burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge) writes:
##
##In California, you still would be in trouble.  The rule of thumb being
##immediate access to both gun and ammo at the same time.  Granted I have
##broken this thumb on many occaisions.  They are supposed to be separate
##and locked.
##
##Bill	burge@qdeck.com
#
#In California, can one have a gun with an unloaded magazine locked in a range
#bag, with full clips in an outside pocket? This would be a convenient thing
#to do if you don't want to eject all the bullets from your gun before going
#to the range.

	As in Ca. so it basically is in NJ.  The weapons must be secure such
	that you cannot get to them easily.  This is what the State Police
	Fire Arms division told me.  Ammo and arms should be both secured and
	out of immediate reach.  

	Even if this is not strictly so in Ca. it still may be a good idea.
	On the scene, the law is whatever the cops say it is.  *IF* you are
	arrested at the scene for a firearms violation, you will be in for
	the hassle of your life, regardless of your guilt or innocence.  I
	think it is best to play these situations as safely as possible since
	to do otherwise may see you in jail and you may lose your guns in any
	case, be without them for months or years and if you ever get them
	back, you may find several thousand rounds worth of mileage on them.

	You will walk away from such an occurrence as the big loser almost
	no matter how you cut it.
	
#
#I asked the people at the range and they weren't sure. In fact they said they
#asked a cop about it and the cop wasn't sure.

	Do NOT under ANY circumstances trust the word of a cop on such
	questions, unless you get it on PD letterhead.  They are under no
	obligation to give you accurate information and certainly are not 
	accountable if they goof.  Chances are they will not be well
	versed in such knowledge, and the possibility always exists that
	they might purposefully give you wrong information just for a laugh.
	Hardy har har when your ass lands in the slammer on felony weapons
	charges.  Talk to your state police firearms division, or whatever
	they call it where you live and get the facts, and the name of the 
	officer you spoke with and also try to get any printed literature
	that might be available through the state.  If you do not know who
	to call, give the local BATF a ring and they should be able to tell
	you.  Don't play games with this kind of stuff; jail time is not fun
	time.

	-Andy V.
From: laycak@vaxr.llnl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carry around the country (a new response)
Date: 13 Oct 92 03:20:34 GMT
Organization: LLNL_LIS



In article <RTARAZ.92Oct12110535@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>, rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
# 
# A while ago I asked about a way to carry my pistol around the country
# on my motorcyle.
# 
# Thanx to many people who responded, I now know that I can carry it if:
# 
# 1. I have a permit for every state that I pass through (impossible)
# 2. carry it unloaded in a locked case
# 3. take it apart  and carry the parts in different compartments.
# 
# My only reason to carry my piston with me was for protection reasons,
# just in case that I need to protect myself in the country side.  If
# the gun is unloaded, locked, or taken apart it would be a lot of help!
# (maybe I should post this to i.f.p also.)  
# 
# What do have to do to get some protection around this country!? 
# 
# Thanx again for all your responses.
# 
# rtaraz@wpi.wpi.edu


I found myself in a very similar situation earlier this year when my friend
and I decided to embark on a cross country bicycle tour from California to
New Jersey.  Although I was extremely excited about the venture, I was also
very concerned for our safety, first because my friend is female and second
our mode of transportation is highly vulnerable.  After much soul searching
and resistance from family and friends, I decided that an option in preserving
my life was necessary.  Having never owned or operated a weapon before, the
education that gun shops and local law enforcement officials gave me was 
certainly eye-opening.  True, it is all but impossible to LEGALLY carry a gun
(in a standby, usable condition) across the US.  True, penalties for such 
behavior CAN be severe.  True, a LOT of people carry guns..good folks as well
as not-so-good folks.  The law enforcement people I talked to thought it would
be foolish NOT to have protection on our trip, with the proviso that you better
NOT GET CAUGHT!
My decision was clear. I would much prefer discussing the reason I had carried
a gun on my trip in front of a judge, than to be the lunch special at
CARRION KING, somewhere in the middle of the New Mexico desert.  My 38 Spcl,
American Derringer remained loaded in my bike handlebar bag throughout our 
trip, and much to my happiness all our incidents with the folks across 
America were pleasurable ones.
The decision (I hope, always) is yours.

PS. I checked into carrying MACE (effective in a closed room, but questionable
    outside on a windy day) and stun-gun (effective but you have to be real
    close to your "problem" to use it).  

Good luck!
From: smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: M1A/M14 Scope Mounts
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:14:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: venus.16OCT199213060451
Organization: who knows

I am seeking recommendations on a scope mount for the M1A/M14.  I will be
using the scope for accuracy testing and load development.  I will use iron
sights mainly for bullseye target shooting.  I do not want a mount that needs
any drilling or tapping and hopefully that does not need the removal of the
clip guide.

Thanks.
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle Calibers for Long Distance Shooting
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:59:49 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1992Oct2.173525.21995@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
#In article <dlamber-021092013022@m248-99.bgsu.edu> dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu (Don Lambert) writes:
#
##As for .50 BMG, it's fun but the cost is still to high. 
#
#Somewhere in the Highpower Rule Book it says you can't use a muzzle
#brake or compensator (yes, we know about the HBAR). I would like
#to see someone shoot a .50 BMG without a muzzle brake. (Call the
#doctor! Ouch!)
#-- 
#

I read a story about Elmer Keith who had a 50BMG bolt gun on loan
from someone and they hooked him up to a series of machines to see
what happened to him under recoil.  They found that his heart skipped
a beat when the gun went off.  I don't think I could afford 22 beats
in 22 minutes.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: rwb@alexander.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Berger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: NAvy Seals and Barett Sights
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:18:45 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Contrary to what's shown in Hollywood creations such as Navy Seals
and Blue Thunder, thermal imagers CANNOT see through walls. They
can't even see through glass. Glass is opaque at the wavelengths used
(10-14 microns).

However, they can see fine through smoke and haze. The Iraqi Republican
Guard found this out the hard way; the first clue they had that
American tanks were nearby was when the Iraqi tanks started exploding.
The oil field fires started by Saddam actually helped our side more.

The ability of thermal imagers to see through smoke has also been used by
firefighters.

As for quiet helicopters, during the Iran Iraq war the US government
released some footage of some Iranians pushing mines off the back
of a small boat. They said the footage was taken from a previously secret
quiet helicopter, whouch could hover a few hundred feet above the
Iranian boat without detection.
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ruger #1 feedback sought
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:14:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.wrrp8mn
Organization: UNM Cancer Center

In article <9210131945.AA21902@Corp.Sun.COM>,
       fax@thrust.Corp.Sun.COM (Fax Guy) writes:
#
#Anyone out there with experience with the Ruger #1 single shot?
#I am very interested in whether there is any accuracy advantage
#with a single shot versus bolt actions. One would be tempted to 
#think so as there is no long reciever to bed properly or that the
#breech block would be more rigid. Why are they not more common on 
#the target ranges if quick reloading is not important? Is the
#the rifle as is from the factory accurate enough to not warrent 
#much improvement?
#
#Comments anyone?
#
#Conrad
#
	I have two #1 rifles, in 7mm Rem Magnum and .375 H&H Magnum, and
  they are both very accurate for hunting guns.  (When I sighted in my
  .375 H&H for elk hunting this year, my first two shots printed about
  1/4 inch apart at 100 yards, before I started adjusting the sight).
	The disadvantage to the #1 action design which keeps it from
  being a "target" rifle is that the relatively heavy hammer results in
  a significantly longer lock time (the time between when the trigger
  breaks and when the primer is ignited) than any of the "target" bolt
  guns.  They are wonderful rifles in all other respects and I think they
  are great hunting guns (a single shot makes you concentrate a little
  more on that first shot), but they would be at a big disadvantage in
  any target competitions where minimal lock time is important. (Are there
  ANY target competitions where lock time isn't important?).

  -Bob

  
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: mcdphx!systemname!gcall@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (Glen Call)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mini-14 Stainless price?
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:59:51 GMT
Organization: Motorola Computer Group Marketing


In article <92279.44911.J066610@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>, J066610@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
|> Hello Netters,
|> 
|> I have had a Ruger Mini-14 Stainless Steel carbine stored away in my
|> closet along with a few other guns.  I bought it new about 5 years ago
|> and have never fired it.  I was thinking of trying to sell it, but wasn't
|> sure as to how much it might be worth these days.  It is in brand new
|> condition.  Anyone have any ideas?

The Eleventh Edition of the Blue Book of Gun Values gives the following prices:

K Mini-14 -- mini stainless steel version
Mfg.'s Sug. Retail $516, 100% $475, 98% $375, 95% $340
Add $85 for folding stock.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glen Call                          Technical Marketing Systems Engineer
Motorola Computer Systems, Inc.    gcall@phx.mcd.mot.com or mcdapps!gcall
DISCLAIMER: The above is strictly my opinion.  I DO NOT SPEAK FOR MOTOROLA!
From: clochmul@nrambr.chem.duke.edu (C. H. Lochmuller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Win. Black Talon vs others
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:16:07 GMT

After all the talk here about Black 
Talon my oldest and I went out this past Sunday with 2 boxes of Black Talon
.45 ACP, 2 boxes of Federal Hydrashoks and 50 Corbon 200 gr JHP. We brought
many gallon-jugs of water and set them up on the table used for bowling
pin shoots { long axis turned to point towards the impact berm}. All shots
were fired at about 4 feet from the first container. All solid hits. All
centered in the water away from the handle { they look like clear milk
containers.} 

Results: 

Black Talon - consistent expansion and penetration of 3 containers. the
first two were shattered with caps landing as far as 16 feet away. The round
was consistently stuck between the 3rd and 4th container. All expanded
uniformly and to the same caliper measured size. Weight loss less than 1%
Every round was a mirror image of the last one in every detail. 

Federal HS - Rounds sometimes expanded and sometimes simply lost part of the
nose. Those that did expand lost 5% of original weight. 

Corbon 200jhp - shattered losing 100% of the jacket and 50 % of the weight.
Recovered rounds were small stubs with rounded tops of .46 avg.dia. Pieces
of jacket lead and such left in first three containers.


My SA 1911 showed no feed problems with Win-Olin BT ammo. Nor any eject
problems. My oldest has a early series 70 { Nickel Plated!} that he bought
NIB 3 months ago. He had ejection problems with the BT ammo. Reloads using
Rainier Ballistics 200 gr JSWC show no feed or eject problems. He has std
springs and the Colt as manufactured ejector.

We finished shooting through a scrap of 2x8. Ranier Baliistics left a hole
suggesting some expansion. The Federals simply drilled a hole. The Corbon
rounds shown some expansion. The Federals created a cone-shaped hole from
fron to back with and exit hole about 3 bullet diameters.

Granted that 40 shots is a small sampling of Black Talon. If Win -Olin sold
the bullets I would reload several hundred and do a more thorough test.

CHL
From: hancock@iex.iex.com (David Hancock)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: First Gun Suggestions?
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:53:43 GMT
Organization: IEX Corporation, Dallas

In article <9209302105.AA14472@spsgate.sps.mot.com> rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg) writes:

[Lotsa stuff trimmed]

#
#Randy, I am not disputing where the recoil pressure goes, what part of the
#hand controls it, or even whether or not it is possible to do this.  I am
#pointing out that this is an irresponsible thing to do with a firearm because
#it *IS* possible (probable in my opinion) to have an accident.  Would you
#honestly feel safe standing next to somebody at the range who decided to try
#this?
#
#There is no reason what-so-ever to attempt to fire a weapon this way. There
#is no situation that I can think of where such a technique would be necessary.
#The only purpose of this 'stunt' is to satisfy one's curiosity.  That is what
#I was referring to as the "I wonder what happens when I do this?" mentality.
#It is analogous to saying "Gee, my finger will fit just right in this light
#bulb socket. I'll try it and see what happens."  Let's not all go out and try
#this, okay?
#

Jeff Cooper performs this "shoot a 1911 with web of hand and trigger finger"
trick to demonstrate that the recoil is far less than legend.  I saw it in
a video he made some time ago, and prior to that had read about it (maybe
in "Cooper on handguns").

I *don't* think I would try it with my Clark Combat (I'd cry if I dropped it),
but if I did I believe it would be prudent to single load it the first time.


-- 
David Hancock -*- IEX Corporation	       | Email: [uunet!]iex!hancock
		  1400 Preston Road, Suite 350 | Voice: (214) 612-2600
		  Plano, Texas 75093
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silhouette shooting
Date: 10 Oct 92 13:39:35 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <9210091600.aa27525@ingate.microsoft.COM> joeha@microsoft.COM writes:
#For silhouette shooters and T/C Contender owners.
#
#Ever in search of new shooting sports to compete in, I
#now find I would like to get into handgun silhouette
#shooting.
#
#Since I am already geared up for .357 Magnum, would a
#T/C Contender in this caliber allow me to be
#competitive?  I realize there are better calibers for
#the job, but I want to start out inexpensively.

  Perhaps a .357 Maximum barrel would be a better choice - since
it would let you shoot .357 Magnum (which is generally considered
to be on the wimpy side ! :-) and also later move up in power.
(Also it depends on which style silhouettes you shoot.) You might 
even be able to reload .357 Maximum with your present gear.
#
#If this is at least an adequate choice, (i.e. I don't
#get laughed off the line) what are some good recipes
#for reloads?  I'd prefer formulas for Hercules 2400 but
#not necessarily limited to that powder.

  The Sierra manual (last edition - green rather than red) gives
for .357 Magnum 10.1 through 11.5 gr. of 2400 behind a 180 grain 
jacketed bullet - with velocities of 950 - 1050 fps.  By contrast 
the .357 Maximum uses 14.6 - 17.8 gr. of 2400 behind the same
bullet with velocities of 1300 - 1500 fps.  There is a big
difference there!  (Note that the Mag loads were from a 6" barrel,
the Max from a 10 1/2" barrel - both revolvers.)

  On the other hand, Elgin Gates book gives some loads up in the
2,000 fps. range for a T/C Contender chambered in .357 Max.!
(Would you believe 25.7 gr. of 296 behind a 180 gr. FMJ reaching
1982 fps with a 10" bbl and 2148 with a 14" bbl.!)
# ...

  This book is
The Gun Digest Book of Metallic Silhouette Shooting, 2nd ed.
Elgin Gates
DBI Books, Inc. 1988  8 1/2" x 11" paperbound  256 pages
ISBN 0-87349-021-5


--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Loaded Clips
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:17:33 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <9210130106.AA102274@nike.calpoly.edu>, ehorne@zeus.calpoly.edu (Eric T Horne) writes:
#   I was told by someone that it is LEGAL to carry a UNLOADED weapon in
#   California without any type of permit (except for the registration of
#   the weapon, probably) so long as you do not have on your person any
#   ammunition. Can any of you  legal types cite a PC number or at least
#   verify my friends "claim" (personally, I don't think that you can
#   do this..). If you are unclear on what I am saying...

It is certainly legal, because 12031 Cal. PC only applies to loaded
firearms, and 12025 Cal. PC only applies to concealed weapons.  But...

#   My friend says that it is legal to carry his Ruger P89 with him at any
#   time on public property (barring buildings and places which do not allow
#   you to carry any type of a weapon, of course) so long as it is unloaded.
#   Reason for doing this -- Halloween is coming up... 

I wouldn't advise it.  Especially at night, this will get him stopped
and questioned.  Under the wrong circumstances, it might get him
killed.  (Like, if he's black or Hispanic, I wouldn't write him life
insurance.  I'm not sure I would be keen to write him life insurance
if he was white and tried this).

#   -Eric


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.