HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Envelope-to: WORDS-L@UGA.BITNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:24:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         BUHITELA%SUNYJCC.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: odder and odder and a clambake

From:   NAME: Les Buhite
        FUNC: Visual and Performing Arts
        TEL: (716) 665-5220                   <BUHITE, LES AT A1 AT JCCV03>
To:     IN%"WORDS-L@UGA"@MRGATE@JCCW22




<Who was it who implied earlier today that we're all a bunch of reality-
<avoiding net freaks?  This clambake is for real -- it's not a virtual
<clambake.  Clams don't pass through the nets very well.  Nor does Cajun
<music.
<   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)

Ooooooooh!  Touchy! I simply noted that such persons exist. Make of
that what you will.

Wish I could make the clambake.  Unfortunately, I gotta work.  Anyone passing
Chautauqua Institution en route to R.I. is hereby invited to drop in for
a tour.  I can also put limited numbers up for the night. Boston is about a
10 hr drive from Chautauqua NY/Erie PA, and then its ??? (someone here knows)
to the clambake.

Dr. (rest)Les
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 09:57:00 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "815 Stephen H. Karlson 753-6980"
 <TA0SHK1%NIU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: list oddities

The List Angel (and onetime resident of Grosse Pointe Park) asks,
"What's the BBA?"

Bachelor of Business Administration (Wisconsin '75, specialty in
utilities and transportation.)

I'm surprised Akio had to glean LGYC -- haven't I bored everybody
with my Lake Geneva Yacht Club stories?

Steve Karlson

Get a good start and sail on the lifted tack.
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:12:26 -0500
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Doris Smith <dorisann%TENET.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Well, really.
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

How about this?  Hello.  Nice day, isn't it?

Doris

On Thu, 16 Apr 1992, Lobstrosities Unite wrote:

> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:03:00 PST
> From: Lobstrosities Unite
> Subject: Well, really.
> To: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
>
> Lookit now.  I finally get access back and am raring to offer my two bits on
> whatever the current topic is and I find I'm the only one on.  Come on.
> Somebody say something controversial.
>
> Please...
>
> Chris
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
From: bayla@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bayla Singer)
Subject: Re: nouns
Organization: Independent scholar
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 10:54:22 GMT

Bayla chided Graham for bringing everything round to sex: there followed

>>Idempotent is a quantity (or operator) that is unchanged by
>>multiplication by itself.  Unity is idempotent, as is any identity
>>matrix.
>>
>>Nothing at all to do with sex, Bayla

--and

>The worst fate of all is the nilpotent joke.

>tushar

---Aaargh!  This makes Two!  

---bayla
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:28:29 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Anne Diffily <ADBAM%BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      1) Age, and 2) AIDS
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

To Chris, the Lobstrosity:  You are a true gentleman!  Thanks
for the palpitations.   :-*   (collectible in person on July 5,
if the size of my girth by then doesn't keep you at arm's length)

Leah:  It's usually news when a famous person is stricken
with a fatal illness.  I'm not sure I can explain it any
better than that.  a)  The person is famous   b)  therefore,
many people are interested in the person's life and wellbeing,
and  c) when the famous person is going to die prematurely,
many people are very interested, if not distressed.  If that's
not news, I'm not sure what is!    It wouldn't really matter
if it was AIDS or something else.  Look at the headlines
when Michael Landon developed incurable cancer, and died
not long afterward.

    - Anne, who seems to be reversing her one-day disappearance
         from this list!
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:47:52 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Karen Kay <LL23%NEMOMUS.BITNET%UGA.CC.UGA.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Ronin
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> I found an interesting description in _An English Dictionary of Japanese
> Culture_ by Honna & Hoffer. (1986) Yuhikaku, Tokyo.

Hey!  I just met Bates Hoffer Thursday night!  Interesting.  Do you
think this is a good book?  I thought the definition of ronin was quite
good.

Karen
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:18:26 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Rashmi Murthy <rashmi%CBIS.ECE.DREXEL.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: free press
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

> printed word both) see themselves as a fourth arm of the government, and even
> worse, an  intermediary between me and my government. Somehow, I do not think
> that this is what the founding fathers had in mind. And frankly, when I hear
> the President or any other public figure speak, I do not need and much resent
> having a television reporter analyze the speech for me.


Well, it isn't all one-sided.  The president and other politicans are
pretty skillful at using the press when it suits them.  They whine when
they can't get their view of the situation out, when their spin control
fails.  BUT, I think the press is doing a poor job of covering the
campaign this year.  They seem to have equated reporting poll results
with reporting.

rashmi, cynic at large
From: haycock@marley.think.com (Anne Haycock)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Visceral response
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:47:15
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: marley.think.com
In-reply-to: bayla@casbah.acns.nwu.edu's message of Wed, 8 Apr 1992 13:17:34 GMT

Bayla asserts:

   *Somebody* ought to get in trouble dept: In today's -Chicago Trib-'s
   "Style" section, (p.6, O ye scholars) Bulls coach Phil Jackson (described
   elsewhere in the article as "Mr Cerebral") is quoted as contrasting the
   nature of his psyche with that of his wife: "She has a more guttural or a
   more emotional level with which she deals with things.  I deal with them
   ... intellectually." 

   My guttural reaction: AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!.
      ^^^^^^^

A well-placed "knee-jerk" reaction would be more appropriate in this
instance.

//anne//




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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:15:13 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Odder and Odder
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> Wouldn't it be nice to have a job playing with net mysteries?

I would adore it!  If anybody knows of any job openings in net-mystery
playing, please let me know.

Meanwhile, something is still very much screwed up.  It's taking a couple
of hours for my list mail to get here.  If I want to see anything that
has been posted recently, I have to go to usenet.  That's weird.  Before
it can show up on usenet, it has to go from uga.cc.uga.edu to auvm.american.
edu.  Why does it get there instantly but take two hours to get here??
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:36:27 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Odder and Odder and Clambake and Stuff
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> Nope, I didn't get anything over the weekend (hence my List Coma
> msg), but I'm subbed at my internet address.  When I checked the News
> program here, which is subbed over bitnet, everything was fine.
> Curiouser and curiouser...

When I checked usenet, which is subscribed over internet, everything
was fine.  But the archives and I weren't getting any mail.  Even after
I started getting mail again, there was a big gap in time.  Postings
showed up on usenet hours before they got to my mailbox.  I think the
time gap is beginning to narrow now.  The weird thing is that my notes
TO the list were getting through -- I know because I saw them on usenet.
But nothing was coming this way.  Strange goings on.

Welcome Jill, Gayle, and other newcomers!  Mark July 5 on your calendars
to be in Providence, RI, for the WORDS-L clambake -- but only if you send
the money to Judith Schrier by June 5.  Details are available via ftp
from isis.msstate.edu in docs/words-l/clambake.announce.

Who was it who implied earlier today that we're all a bunch of reality-
avoiding net freaks?  This clambake is for real -- it's not a virtual
clambake.  Clams don't pass through the nets very well.  Nor does Cajun
music.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Acknowledge-To: <NY911179@PACEVM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 10:53:03 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Mark Susskind <NY911179%PACEVM.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gleanings (38)

On Mon, 6 Apr 1992 15:31:00 JST Akio Tanaka said:
> 2) Linda Evans/Raffi (Mark S.)
Linda Evans: actress in commercials, TV series _Dynasty_, perhaps some movies,
             too (TV and cinematic)
Raffi: singer and songwriter, primarily children's songs
       "I wonder if Yanni knows Raffi."
       I wrote that line because of obvious similarities in the names. =)

> 8) 1-Alarm chili (Ken W.)
A one-alarm fire is a fire where only one fire engine company is called.
I guess that it extends to chili when the chili is hot, but it is nothing that
he can't handle.

> 9) IRT (Ken W.)
Independent Rapid Transit, as it is used in the New York City Metropolitan
Transit Autority
IRT is composed of subway lines 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 9
Other subway line groups are IND (Independent Line) (A, B, C, D, E, F, H, Q,
                                                     and S),
and BMT (Brooklyn Mass Transit) (G, J, M, N, R, and Z)

>19) PDQ (Graham)
"Pretty <Darn ;-> Quick"
Also, parody composer Peter Schikele's pseudonym, P. D. Q. Bach

>29) TQM (Dan)
Total Quality Management, basic principles:
  involvement of all managers and employees
  a commitment to continuous quality improvement
  assessment related to outcomes sought by the program and its customers
  assessment along measurable dimensions of efficiency and effectiveness
  goal setting along measurable dimensions
  development of strategies to reach goals
-- _Modeling "That TQM Jazz"_

>30) Vanity plate
a license plate that has a personal (sort-of-)message on it

Much lovin',
Mark R. Susskind <NY911179 @ PACEVM.BITNET>
238 Dogwood Road  Clerk-Typist                   Computer Science
Valley Stream     USDA, FSIS, M&P, RP, CP        Pace University
Long Island       26 Federal Plaza, Room 36-128  Isle of New York
New York, USA     Isle of New York               New York, USA  10038
11580-4036        New York, USA  10278-0043
+ 1-516-561-1128  + 1-212-264-4674,5,6
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
 If I am only for myself, what am I?
 And if not now, when?" -- Hillel
"The impropriety is no illusion." -- Mark R. Susskind
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X-VMS-To: IN%"WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.EDU"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:43:00 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "The harder I work, the behinder I get"
 <TRAVEN%VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Baseball announcers (was Russian students)
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.EDU

From: Janet Teuber <C0229%UNIVSCVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.EDU>

>Neal, it seems to me that baseball announcers are not nearly as bad as football
>announcers about creating their own vocabulary to describe things for which we
>already have perfectly good words.  This act of excessive vocabularizing I
>liken to tearing up a perfectly good towel to make a rag you can use in place
>of a towel. :#  <-- new symbol for what some sportscasters should do.

	Having been addressed directly, perhaps in my role as primary baseball
	maven chez words-l, let me note that I just scanned past the 'Baseball
	on the Air' chapter of _Total Baseball_, written by my Pittsburgh SABR
	colleague Paul Adomites.  I was looking for details on the career hit
	total of Cap Anson and the Nap Lajoie-Ty Cobb batting title controversy
	of 1910.

	Anyway, it's getting late, and I've read a remarkable number of
	fascinating postings tonight.  There must be something in the air
	today, and NOT just in words-l.  Even statlg-l, usually prone to
	baseball geekism and childish namecalling, has been thoughtful and
	philosophical tonight.

	I *do* have thoughts on the matter, and generally agree with you.  Let
	me leave you with two thoughts:

		baseball is really the *only* sport we still listen to on the
		radio, and radio is fundamentally different from television.

		local, rather than national, broadcasting is the baseball norm,
		and baseball announcers are identified with specific teams.

	More later, I hope.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal	traven@pittvms			Bitnet		412-624-0097 (office)
	traven@vms.cis.pitt.edu  	Internet	412-624-0110 (fax)
			"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America
			 had better learn baseball."	-- Jacques Barzun
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"WORDS-L@UGA.BITNET"
Original_cc:  WHITERJ
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 10:52:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: TV

Sayeth        Dan Lester <ALILESTE@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU>

> Is there any other way?  I don't even OWN any pencils.  Pens or nothing.
> I also don't own a watch.  Life is wonderful without any stupid pens or
> watches.

     While I agree in general, pencils are very good for sketching out
engineering ideas and I find a watch necessary to fit in with society.
I have a habit of going 30-36 hours straight, then crashing for a bit,
then doing another long stretch.  Having the watch reminds me when I
am not following the norms.

The Ronin
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 12:50:49 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ODDS 'N' ENDS

> of grunts. So let us suppose that a system of grunts meets the needs of
> the speakers of this evolved version of English. Then, obviously, their
> needs must have changed dramatically. For example, they have no need for
> mathematics or literature. How do you conclude, from linguistics or by
> any other means, that there is nothing wrong with a change in human culture
> whereby there is no further need for mathematics or literature?

But wait!  The topic seems to have shifted.  Either it's shifted, or I
didn't know what it was in the first place.  I've been talking about
linguistics.  I have no idea how one might conclude whether a change in
human culture is good or bad.  You can, of course, say that language is
part of culture.  That's not the point here, though.  I'm anti-Whorfian
to the extent that I believe culture influences language more than
language influences culture.  If the culture changes, the language
adapts.  The linguistic change cannot be considered "wrong."  Trying
to decide whether the cultural change that leads to linguistic change
is good or bad, right or wrong is another question.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
From: haycock@marley.think.com (Anne Haycock)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Descriptive and prescriptive
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:07:38
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: marley.think.com
In-reply-to: torkel%SICS.SE@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU's message of 9 Apr 92 13:27:27 GMT

Torkel questions:

     Natalie writes:

   >There is nothing innately superior about "he doesn't."
   >People who use "he doesn't" instead of "he don't" do not necessarily
   >"think better" than people who use "he don't."

?? But has anybody said that "he doesn't" is innately superior to "he
?? don't"? I hardly know what this would mean myself.

Well, "he doesn't" breaks down to "he does not", and "he don't" breaks down
into "he do not".  

I don't think I need to say which is preferable to me.  Call me an english
snob, whatever, but I maintain that despite the evolution of spoken
english, there will remain some basic standard by which "good" english
(written and spoken) is judged.  Good is subjectively defined -- but, I
would not be honest if I said that I didn't make judgements based upon a
person's ability to speak/write "good" english.  I'm sure I'm judged upon
similar standards by others and often fall short (my mother and graduate
advisor would be apt examples here).

//anne//
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X-Envelope-to: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.EDU"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:57:00 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "The harder I work, the behinder I get"
 <TRAVEN%VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Ashe and AIDS
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.EDU

>Is it true that Ashe decided to reveal that he has AIDS only because
>somebody was about to publish it? (I haven't read the newspapers or
>watched the news for a few days, so this might be wrong.)
>If it is true, what do you think about the responsibility of the media
>in this regard?  Should they've respected his wish for privacy?  I
>think its sad if he was forced to announce it against his wishes.

	I think USA Today acted *extremely* responsibly in offering Ashe the
	opportunity to reveal his condition in his own way.  They could have
	printed the story without waiting for him.

	Like it or not, HIV and AIDS in a celebrity remains newsworthy.

>Another clarification: does Ashe have the virus, or the disease?

>rashmi

	Both.  He has known of his HIV-positivity for 3.5 years, and is
	currently under treatment for opportunistic infection by toxoplasmosis.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal	traven@pittvms			Bitnet		412-624-0097 (office)
	traven@vms.cis.pitt.edu  	Internet	412-624-0110 (fax)
			"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America
			 had better learn baseball."	-- Jacques Barzun
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 23:06:11 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Tushar Samant <tushar%ZAPHOD.UCHICAGO.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fitting in

I thought that being an editor would be good, but I have too much of a
one-track mind. Now I think the thing I most want to be is a bookstore
owner. You can goof off in your own store all day, and as a perk you
get to meet all the big nibs.

tushar
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 10:06:00 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "815 Stephen H. Karlson 753-6980"
 <TA0SHK1%NIU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: follows from compactness

Tushar Samant tries again to prove the existence of a minimum cost:

: Take the sets given by intersection of closed spheres around the origin
: (intersected with the "non-negative orthant"). These are compact and some
: such set (corresponding to sphere of some radius) intersects the input
: requirement set which was closed. NOW apply compactness (to the
: intersection).

Now we're getting somewhere.  Because the input requirement set is closed,
every convergent sequence of points in the set converges to a point in the
set.  Call each such sequence <_x_>.  Form a new sequence (_w_._x_> where
w is the vector of strictly positive input prices, and the . denotes
the inner product.  Each sequence converges to a positive real number
and among those real numbers is the minimum.

Something wild about theoretical economics is that some people like
to use measure theory and norms and talk about ||x-y|| < d and others
prefer the more abstract approach Don Roby mentioned last week (let
A be an open set containing x and let the image f(x) be in set B).

Steve Karlson
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 13:31:33 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: tarmac rugrats
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> Well, as an older brother who gave his sister her daily ration of
> s---, my inclination would be to say no.  But in all fairness I musk
> ask Natalie if she gave as good as she got.

I think I've already mentioned throwing a fork at him one time.  But
that doesn't count as teasing.  That was ordinary violence.  What about
sneaking into his room and reading the love notes from his girlfriend?
I guess that's not teasing either.  It's hard to tease somebody who is
four years older than you.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 09:00:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "PLOTKIN, ALEC DAVID" <185422285%UCIS.VILL.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: flipping channels
Comments: To: words-l <words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu>

Since we are talking about flipping channels. Don't you hate when you stay at a
hotel they attach the flipper to the table next to the bed? I understand
people steal they flippers but, i still hate it.


later

alec


HAPPY IRS DAY - THOSE IN THE USA
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
X-Prolog:     University Computing Services/Student Data Systems
X-Prolog:     University of South Florida
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 12:43:29 GMT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Comments:     Converted from OfficeVision to RFC822 by PUMP V2.2X
From:         DBFABAK%CFRVM.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU

*** Resending note of 04/17/92 00:14

Confuseth the Ronin:

>     No need to get drastic, here.  The Ronin was in class and then
>attempted a COBOL student, but he is back on the terminal for a couple
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What does that mean?
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:31:59 MST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Dan Lester <ALILESTE%IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: words-l history
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              7 Apr 1992 13:43:28 EDT from <rashmi@CBIS.ECE.DREXEL.EDU>

On Tue, 7 Apr 1992 13:43:28 EDT Rashmi Murthy said:
>>    --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
>>      Subscribed to WORDS-L the day it was born
>Haven't you been the listowner since the inception of Words-l??

I haven't been around as long as Natalie....but joined about a week after
it moved to ra from yalevm, I believe.  There was even a time when it
was a MODERATED list!   (Not under Natalie, but in the "olden days")

I imagine Natalie will catch you and others up on the details when
she catches up on mail.

dan
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