HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: heintzelman-george@CS.YALE.EDU (George Heintzelman)
Subject: Re: Taeis: co-op creation of internally-realistic fic worldSKIP
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:53:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.071803.4332@bb1t.monsanto.com> bjgaed@bb1t.monsanto.com writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.191455.12671@midway.uchicago.edu>, tuff@ellis.uchicago.edu (Geoff Tuffli) writes:
>> 
>> 	THE TAEIS PROJECT:
>> 
>> The Taeis Project is an attempt to create a fictional world constructed in
>> such a way that it is logically consistent in every possible facet from
>> history, culture, social systems, anthropology, linguistics, economics,
>> political systems, and so on.
>> 
>[Description, etc. deleted]
>
>> 		Geoff Tuffli
>> 		University of Chicago
>> 
>> 		tuff@ellis.uchicago.edu
>
>NOFLAME  NOFLAME   NOFLAME   NOFLAME   NOFLAME   NOFLAME   NOFLAME   
>
>Why would anyone want to create a "logically consistent" fictional 
>world?  If the purpose of fiction (indeed, of all art) is to 
>illuminate truths about the world in which we live, what is the 
>purpose of fiction about such a world as the TAEIS project describes?
>To explore alien culture?  If you have a world in which everything is 
>logically consistent, then there is no mystery, there is nothing left 
>to explore.  *Everything is knowable.*  
	Sheesh, talk about cynicism. Everything being consistent might
mean that everything is knowable (I'm not sure that it has to, but
I'll let it slide), but that doesn't mean that the characters
inhabiting that world, or those reading about it, know everything....
	I hope THIS world is logically consistent. If it isn't, then
science may as well give up, and I'm out of a job...but humantiy, even
taken together, is FAR from knowing everything about it, I'm sure you
would agree.

>
>Nobody in such a world would do any of those logically inconsistent 
>things we humans do like falling in love and then throwing it away, or 
>ignoring the telephone bill, or religion, or getting up early in the 
>morning to trade words with a bunch of netters, or reading science 
>fiction, or ...  .
	Um, no. A logically consistent world doesn't mean that the
people in it behave logically, just that they make sense. 
>
>The only thing I would expect characters in such a world to do would 
>be to commit mass suicide as soon as they found out what their world 
>was like.  Makes for *one* very short book followed by a huge and 
>eternal silence.
	Spoken like a die hard cynic. Even IF it happened that someone
found out everything, I don't see how that makes life unenjoyable... a
bit boring at times, I suppose... and besides, no one ever will.
>
>A little application of Occam's razor please.
	How does this apply to any of the above?

George Heintzelman (somewhat active in the Taeis project...)

heintzel@cernapo.cern.ch

Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: selvin@nynexst.com (Al Selvin)
Subject: Ethnographies of software developers 
Originator: selvin@ghee
Reply-To: selvin@nynexst.com (Al Selvin)
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 17:18:25 GMT


Can anyone point me to good references for anthropological,
cultural, ethnographic etc. studies of software developers
in their work context? I'm not looking for references
like _Peopleware_ or _The Mythical Man-Month_, but
rather for actual ethnographies of programming 
cultures.

I'll post a summary if there's any interest.

Thanks!

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Al Selvin (selvin@nynexst.com)       NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc.
Expert Systems Lab                   500 Westchester Avenue
(914) 644-2156                       White Plains, NY USA 10604  

Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: peterk@public.sub.org (Peter Kittel)
Subject: Re: The Anthropology of Coca-Cola
Organization: Public News & Mailserver, Commodore Germany PM UNIX, Frankfurt
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 13:57:55 GMT

rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes:

>"You know, there are so many different cultures, but deep down, were all
>pretty alike. We all like to put our feet up, relax, and enjoy a nice
>Coca-cola."

I remember well when I tried Cola the first timeas a little boy: I didn't 
like it. It didn't taste sweet for me, more like cold coffee. But that 
has changed...

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to  \\  Only my personal opinions... 
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
                                   or  peterk@public.sub.org
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: fsmadja@figment.shearson.com (Frank Smadja)
Subject: Re: The Anthropology of Coca-Cola
Reply-To: fsmadja@alfred.shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers
	<151u8tINN6uo@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> <glenda.712296755@hoel>
	<1992Jul29.133450.23891@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:39:45 GMT



>BINGO!!! YOU WIN!!!! You have stumbled on the point of my original post.
>Coca-cola, in this absurd ad campaign, has tried to portray love of 
>carbonated water, sugar, and carmel color as a universal, a trait that
>links all humans cross-culturally. When, of course, it is an acquired taste,
>and one that is nutritionally 100% worthless. But of course, coke will keep
>

All of culture is acquired !! And  there are a few things that look like
universals in culture, and it is not that ridiculous to think of Coca cola as
one  of these.


Fs.
Newsgroups: sci.edu
From: cavrak@uvm.edu (Steve Cavrak)
Subject: Back to School: MacWorld Issue on Computers and Education
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:35:56 GMT

Check out the current issue of Macworld.  It is dedicated
to education.  

-----------

MacWorld, September 1992

Special Reports on French, Japanese, and U. S. Educational
Policies.

On the Cover:

America's Shame: The Creation of the Technological Underclass in
America's Public Schools - How We Abandoned Our Children's
Future.


Contents:

SPECIAL ISSUE:


-  Personal Computers in Education

For the last decade, America has invested heavily in programs to
place personal computers in schools.  We report on what our
nation has accomplished so far and where we're headed. The prognosis
is not encouraging.

-  Commentary/Jerry Borrell

Congress and the Bush Adminstration are at loggerheads over
who'll take the lead in getting personal computers to work in
the classroom.


- Conspicuous Consumer / Deborah Branscum

What has kept computers from being integrated in public schools?
Inadequate support, training, research, money, and will.


- Separate Realities /  Charles Piller

The failure of U.S. public schools to arm students with
computing skills means many may never effectively compete in
our technological world.


- The Official Word / Morton Kondracke

Our government's education policy claims to promote computer
literacy - but do the results back up the rhetoric?


- The World View / Jean Cassagne and Toru IIyoshi

Thought they face similar obstacles to implement computer-based
learning, some countries are moving ahead of the United States -
as these special reports from France and Japan show.


Newsgroups: sci.edu
From: 13r43@math.ucrf.edu
Subject: Re: worst labs and science activities
Organization: McGill University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 03:55:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.205555.12168@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  
ebrownst@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Erica M Brownstein) writes:
> We are putting together a workshop for educators that will help them to
> distinguish "good" science labs/activities from "bad' science  
labs/activities.
> In order to do this, we are collecting "bad" science labs and activities that
> are available to educators.
> 
> If you have a science activity or lab that you would like to nominate for the
> ten worst science activities, please send your suggestion to us!! 
Got to be the SSC. Of course, your school district will need $8.25 billion if  
they want to try that experiment !
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 23 Jul 1992 11:19:07 EDT
From: <IO00865@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: Computers in science education
Distribution: usa
 <1992Jul17.211321.2666@cbfsb.cb.att.com>

I would like to know what computer programs are currently avaliable for
use in secondary school life science curricula. Also, information on
literature avaliable for unawares teachers to show them what is what would be
helpful.


Please reply by E-mail...

Ethan Strauss                              IO00865@maine
Dept. Plant Biology & Pathology            Maple St. Apt.#1
University of Maine at Orono 04469         Bangor ME, 04401
207-581-2994                               207-947-6017
Newsgroups: sci.edu
From: cavrak@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Steve Cavrak)
Subject: Re: What's happening with programmed learning/teaching machines?
Originator: cavrak@kira.emba.uvm.edu
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:28:44 GMT

Herman Rubin  comments :

	Unfortunately, at this time the great bulk of material
	presented is exactly stimulus-response.  It is trying to make
	humans act like computers.  What is needed in education is
	concepts.  There is a big amount of talk of transfer of
	training; what I have seen on this is either negative, or it
	is application.  

There is no doubt a large amount of the "stimulus-response" type of
thing going on out there -- but from my experience there is as much if
not more high quality "though provoking" material.  Some, like
Tarski's world has a "game like" approach, but at a very high level.

One of the key points to remember is that "concepts" can only be
taught in the context of "experience."  The "stimulus-response" model
is a very one dimensional experience; a program like MathMaze,
however, and Tarski's world, provide fairly rich experiences -- always
under the control of the learner who can modify twist bend flip the
rules to suit her curiosity.  

Yes, this does take a lot of developmental work -- probably as much as
writing a new textbook.  But imagine a math textbook with Mathematica
built in; a statistics textbook with JMP and several years worth of
opinion polls and economic data; an astronomy text with tons of images
of the planets (gis type); an environmental studies text with 
stella, etc.

Ciao
Steve
From: che358w@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: MS Windows Vibrations Program Available
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:00:05 +1000
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

Hi,
  If anyone is interested I have written a MS windows program that displays
and animates normal modes of vibrations. It can extract the data it needs
from a Gaussian 90 log file or read it in from a text file. The vibrations can
be displayed as arrows from the centres of the atoms and these pictures can
be printed, saved as bitmap or copied to the clipboard.

I hope people will find it interesting and useful. It should help
spectroscopists as well as people teaching molecular spectroscopy.
 Its shareware and available on archive.umich.edu
under msdos/mswindows/educational or on wuarchive.wustl.edu under
mirrors3/archive.umich.edu/msdos/mswindows/edicational. Its called winvibes.zip.
Samantha Lane
CHE358W@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: sci.edu
From: cavrak@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Steve Cavrak)
Subject: Re: What's happening with programmed learning/teaching machines?
Originator: cavrak@newton.emba.uvm.edu
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:27:04 GMT

From article <13643@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, by steffen@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (David Steffen):

	... Teaching machines simply automated this process.

	This seemed like a good idea at the time, it still seems like a
	good idea to me, and given the wide availability of computers,
	seems much more practical now than then.  Does anyone know
	what ever happened to this concept?  Has it been discredited
	in educational circles, has it fallen between the cracks, or
	is it in widespread use, and everyone knows about it but me?

While not totally "discredited", it certainly has passed out out vogue.

There are a number of things that are "wrong" (i.e. limiting) about
it.

- Skinner, who was very instrumental in proposing the original models,
was quite insistant that the number of "stimulus - response" pairs
required in getting to a level of competence was quite large.  He
estimated something like 100,000 arithmetic "problems" to reach a 3rd
grade level.

- except in rare cases, "programming" instruction along that mechanical
model falls apart quite rapidly.  The human effort involved is
tremendous; arithmetic is one of the nice counter examples.

- most of learning is not "rote" memorization or "stimulus - response"
but "model acquisition".  People try to understand what is going on
about them, how things work, and what they can do next.  Jerome
Bruner, a colleague of Skinner across the street, was one of the
people to point out the difference between "teaching" and "learning".

- learning is most effective when it is "active", ie when the learner
is "setting the agenda" or "in control".  Sherry Turkle's "The Second
Self" shows how quickly kids get bored with the lock step and quickly
learn to "subvert" the "teaching" machine and turn it into a "learning"
machine.  

- as computers, and especially personal computers have become more
powerful, and as instruction has matured, people have learned to make
computers flexible "mind" tools that students can use -- to improve
their hand writing, to improve their reading, etc.  It's frightening
how many "learning handicaps" vanish when students are given a computer
to help them along.  Computers are something that students can
"control" rather than be controlled by.

Basically, the original "teaching machine" model represented a poor
understanding of what learning was all about and what computers could
do for it.  

Ciao
Steve
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: Re: What's happening with programmed learning/teaching machines?
Summary: What should be; they are not good for much
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:08:01 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Jul29.012704.23784@uvm.edu> cavrak@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Steve Cavrak) writes:
>From article <13643@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, by steffen@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (David Steffen):

>	... Teaching machines simply automated this process.

>	This seemed like a good idea at the time, it still seems like a
>	good idea to me, and given the wide availability of computers,
>	seems much more practical now than then.  Does anyone know
>	what ever happened to this concept?  Has it been discredited
>	in educational circles, has it fallen between the cracks, or
>	is it in widespread use, and everyone knows about it but me?

>While not totally "discredited", it certainly has passed out out vogue.

>There are a number of things that are "wrong" (i.e. limiting) about
>it.

>- Skinner, who was very instrumental in proposing the original models,
>was quite insistant that the number of "stimulus - response" pairs
>required in getting to a level of competence was quite large.  He
>estimated something like 100,000 arithmetic "problems" to reach a 3rd
>grade level.

This exemplifies well what can be taught with programmed learning; 
manipulations and nothing else.  

			..................

>- most of learning is not "rote" memorization or "stimulus - response"
>but "model acquisition".  People try to understand what is going on
>about them, how things work, and what they can do next.  Jerome
>Bruner, a colleague of Skinner across the street, was one of the
>people to point out the difference between "teaching" and "learning".

Unfortunately, at this time the great bulk of material presented is
exactly stimulus-response.  It is trying to make humans act like
computers.  What is needed in education is concepts.  There is a
big amount of talk of transfer of training; what I have seen on
this is either negative, or it is application.  

I was on the faculty at Michigan State University when the then
president tried to get the various departments to adopt computer
courses.  I do not know if any did; it would have required many
hours of manpower to produce the materials, and they would not be
useful in 2-3 years.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: sci.edu
From: tchamov@sunran1.cern.ch (Nikolay Tchamov)
Subject: NEW-Projects 
Keywords: Electronics, Computers, Education, Research, Design
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 09:32:59 GMT

***************************************************************************

                                 July 24th, 1992, CERN
                                 Geneve, Suisse/Switzerland


Dear Sirs,

I didn`t find a news-group(s) dealing with European Projects like
TEMPUS in example, except ESPRIT & EUROCHIP which is not much 
supplied by news and discusions. 

Do such News-groups exist, where someone can get up-to-date information
about European projects in the fields of :

  Electronics & Computers & Education & Research & Design ?

If not, please give a hint how to get Up-to-date E-mail information 
about projects like those handled by Brussels etc. 

It is too bad to get those informations by ordinary mail 
quite late (sometimes about 2 weeks before the time to apply).

Having such networks and losing some chances is too sad fact.

Thank you very much in advance for your help.

Sincerely,

Nick

--------------------------------------------------------- 
  P.S. Please reply either here (in this News-group) or
  directly to my E-mail address:

                    tchamovn@cernvm.cern.ch

****************************************************************************
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: Teaching of concepts
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:12:55 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Jul29.212844.15222@uvm.edu> cavrak@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Steve Cavrak) writes:
>Herman Rubin  comments :

>	Unfortunately, at this time the great bulk of material
>	presented is exactly stimulus-response.  It is trying to make
>	humans act like computers.  What is needed in education is
>	concepts.  There is a big amount of talk of transfer of
>	training; what I have seen on this is either negative, or it
>	is application.  

>There is no doubt a large amount of the "stimulus-response" type of
>thing going on out there -- but from my experience there is as much if
>not more high quality "though provoking" material.  Some, like
>Tarski's world has a "game like" approach, but at a very high level.

>One of the key points to remember is that "concepts" can only be
>taught in the context of "experience."  The "stimulus-response" model
>is a very one dimensional experience; a program like MathMaze,
>however, and Tarski's world, provide fairly rich experiences -- always
>under the control of the learner who can modify twist bend flip the
>rules to suit her curiosity.  

As one teaching concepts in mathematics and statistics, I would argue
that it is more important NOT to have too much experience so that the
concepts can be developed without being swamped by the details.  Not
that examples should not be given, but that they should be chosen 
carefully to be so varied that the student does not carry irrelevant
garbage to confuse the concepts.

>Yes, this does take a lot of developmental work -- probably as much as
>writing a new textbook.  But imagine a math textbook with Mathematica
>built in; a statistics textbook with JMP and several years worth of
>opinion polls and economic data; an astronomy text with tons of images
>of the planets (gis type); an environmental studies text with 
>stella, etc.

I can see something like Mathematica being included in a good textbook
teaching mathematical concepts.  But the stuff you have mentioned has
no place in a statistics book until the concepts, none of which are
even illustrated by the methods and data suggested above, are clearly
understood.  (Well, the opinion polls might be all right for examples,
but not as usually given.)  It is very difficult to get a person who
has learned statistical methods to discuss the statistical problem 
with a statistician; the ingredients are not known at all.  This 
statement definitely includes the great bulk of those who misuse
statistics in psychology and education.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: steffen@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (David Steffen)
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: What's happening with programmed learning/teaching machines?
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:32:49 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx


  When I was in elementary school (I'm now 43) "teaching machines" and
"programmed learning" (which is used by teaching machines) were proclaimed
by major academic journals such as _Popular Science_ (;-)) as the wave of
the future.  Programmed learning consists of a series of short blocks of
text (typically 1 or 2 paragraphs) followed by a multiple choice question.
Depending on the answer given, one was directed to the next section of
text which was remedial for wrong answers (different wrong answers
implying different misunderstandings and pointing to different remedial
texts) and the next concept for right answers.  This was sometimes
implemented as a book.  Teaching machines simply automated this process.

  This seemed like a good idea at the time, it still seems like a good
idea to me, and given the wide availability of computers, seems much more
practical now than then.  Does anyone know what ever happened to this
concept?  Has it been discredited in educational circles, has it fallen
between the cracks, or is it in widespread use, and everyone knows about
it but me?

  Respond to the group or by email, whatever seems most appropriate.

  Thanks!


-- 
David Steffen
Department of Cell Biology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston TX 77030
Telephone = (713) 798-6655, FAX = (713) 790-0545
Internet = steffen@bcm.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.edu