From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: MBA LX review.
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:50:38 GMT

lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd) writes:
>Ugh...  More "Bridgestone knows all, Shimano knows nothing" diatribe.  First,
>let me say that I think Bridgestone makes good bikes.  I don't feel, however,
>that because Bridgestone makes a decision that decision MUST be the right
>decision.

You're accusing me of overgeneralizing by making your own generalizations
about what I said.  I didn't say Bridgestone knows all nor do I beleive they
do.  They make mistakes like anyone else but their basic philosophy is a 
shining standout compared to the majority of major manufacturers that
just slap the the latest Shimano group on their bikes.  I knew somebody
would say I was anti-shimano because I criticize the LX group.  But my
mountain bike has Deore DX and my road bike has Ultegra so I can't be
too anti-Shimano.  

>Yes, Shimano LX stuff is ugly, and it is probably less durable than XTR.  But
>what do you expect?  When it is new it supposedly works as well as XTR.  Of
>course, LX is a whole lot cheaper than XTR, too.  The decrease in price had
>to come from somewhere.  Cheaper materials are one reason.  If you want 
>something that works as well as XTR and lasts as long as XTR, there's a simple
>solution:  buy XTR.  

Right.  You missed my basic point which was really clear as far as I can see.
LX is good stuff for cheapo mountain bikes but not $800 plus bikes.  The MB-3
with DX is the same price as many steel frames with LX.  It's a better buy
as a result.  Clear?

>As for this stuff about Bridgestone and DX, I don't know what your point is.
>I'll bet the new LX stuff is at least as expensive as DX is, but I haven't seen
>the group prices so I can't be sure.  The new LX stuff (according to MBA at
>least) works better than DX, too.  Ohhh, but wait.  Now I know.  LX doesn't
>offer thumbshifters.  That settles it.  LX (and XTR) are bad things because
>they don't offer thumbshifters.  Never mind the fact that quite a few people
>think they work really well, as whoever yells the loudest wins.  We all know
>who yells loudest around here.

I don't know where your coming from with that.  You must have rapidfire and
think any criticism is a persoanl assault on your manhood.  Hey some people
like thumbshifters some like rapidfire plus.  I prefer thumshifters and made
it clear that that is my personal preference.  I also stated why in detail.
That doesn't mean I think everyone should use them.

>As for the Altus stuff:  If someone buys a bike that has suspension and the
>Altus stuff for $500 and expects it to be durable, they've either been lied to
>by someone in the shop or they're fairly ignorant.  What they're gonna be 
>getting is a $200 (retail) fork on a $300 bike.  We know what kind of bikes
>sell for $300, and they're not too trailworthy.

Right.  You just agreed with me.  However instead of blaming the rider (victim?
I blame the manufacturers.  These bikes are obviously designed for new riders
who will probably get their information from a bike shop or the manufacturers
catalogs.
>Have a pleasant day now...
-Terry


-- 
-Terry