HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: greg@afs.com (Gregory H. Anderson)
Subject: Re: experienced NeXTSTEP programmer shortage
Reply-To: greg@afs.com
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:14:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.120709.16965@dircon.co.uk> uad1221@dircon.co.uk  
(David Lomax) writes:
> When you talk about teaching smart/open-minded people NeXTSTEP, 
> are you assuming that even though they have no previous NeXT 
> experience, they do have previous OOP/D experience. 
> [munch]
> I would be very happy to take on staff who had never used a 
> NeXT box before but would be a lot more retiscent about people 
> who had no OOP/D experience.
> 

Nope, only Dave had previous OOP/D experience (in C++). As mentioned in my  
original posting, I had only programmed in BASIC before. Dave taught me  
what OOP/D is all about. It took a week to reach a fuzzy understanding and  
another month of poking around and making sense of examples to get the  
point. And of course, I had to complete an entire complex project to learn  
what works in a larger context than two or three simple classes. Object  
toolkits don't spring up fully formed in your first at-bat. The classic  
advice "Always be prepared to throw one away" is still valid. That's why I  
say you need at least one or two people as mentors. They can provide a  
sanity check on unnecessary 'recycling' by less experienced personnel.

If you're a reasonably good teacher, and I think I am, it's not that hard  
to convey the essence of OOP/D to bright people. You just have to know how  
to do it effectively. The best teachers are skilled at leading students to  
model within their own brains what is already known and understood by the  
teacher. As a result, the true limitation on learning speed lies with the  
*teacher*, not the student, in most cases. I'm sure you're a bright  
person. I'm sure you can remember a teacher who had a knack for helping  
you grasp new concepts, and another who left you in a fog no matter how  
hard both of you tried. How fast would you have learned OOP/D under both  
of them? Whose 'fault' would it be in the slower case?

It's often said that it's easier to teach OOP/D to people who do NOT have  
traditional programming experience (less de-programming, pardon the pun),  
and I have found that to be true. I stick to my original conclusion.

--
Gregory H. Anderson          | Thus spake the master programmer: 
Master Programmer / Manager  | "Let the programmers be many and  
Anderson Financial Systems   | the managers few; then all will be 
greg@afs.com  (Nextmail OK)  | productive." -- Tao of Programming
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
From:  (slugg jello)
Subject: Re: A few small changes for 3.1 (Edit and gdb)
Reply-To: slugg@mouthers.wa.com
Organization: Mouthing Flowers
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 04:12:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec25.200729.25642@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  
fermat@fermat.dartmouth.edu (Michael Glenn) writes:
> 
> >  One addition that should be both easy to make and quite
> >  useful is to follow the example set by the Stuart terminal
> >  emulator by adding an "extent" option to the print pannel.
> >  This allows one to print: all, selection, visible.  I
> >  have found this to be extremely useful.
> 
> Not to detract from "Stuart"s cleverness, but the Terminal.app does this  
> as well.

See also SwoopN'Print, a part of Paget Press's SwoopN' package.  It is a  
service that lets you print any selection in any app.

-- 
Doug Kent
slugg@mouthers.wa.com
From: alex@cs.umd.edu (Alex Blakemore)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
Subject: Good PostScript book available
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:19:20 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

This book is a real gem for learning PostScript, esp level II.
lots of examples and good NeXT plugs - though the emphasis is
on the printed page more than the display.

PostScript by Example
Henry McGilton & Mary Campione
Addisn-Wesley 1992
ISBN 0-201-63228-4

This is an unsolicited recommendation.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------
Alex Blakemore alex@cs.umd.edu   NeXT mail accepted
From: matt@drefla.mese.com (Matt Brandt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
Subject: Multiple instances of IB objects
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:32:30 GMT
Organization: Applied Engineering

If I create a window in IB with lots of gadgets and connections in it how  
can I get multiple instances of that window that act correctly at  
runtime? The -copy method of Object won't do it because it doesn't copy  
secondary objects (objects pointed to within the primary object). Anybody  
got a good method of doing this?

Matt Brandt
matt@drefla.mese.com
From: t68@nikhefh.nikhef.nl (Jos Vermaseren)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
Subject: How do I NOT get special key codes?
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:20:56 GMT
Organization: Nikhef-H, Amsterdam (the Netherlands).

Can some kind knowledgeable soul please help me with the following problem:
I am trying to port the STedi editor to the NeXT and part of this editor
is that it can map any sequence of keys to any other sequence of keys.
However internally the NeXT plays around with the alternate key and if
I press Alternate-a it signifies an accent so it waits for a second key.
In terminal this behaviour does not exist, so it must be possible to
switch it off. How is this done? (I would like to be able to bind 
alternate-a to whatever command my mood inspires and have any user do
so also).
I have checked all my manuals (I have the developer docs) and have not
been able to find a solution to this problem. Did I overlook something?

Happy NewYear
Jos Vermaseren
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
From: demarco@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Vince Demarco)
Subject: Re: Prolog interpreters/compilers?
Organization: University of Calgary
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:14:09 GMT


>Are anyone out there using Prolog on their NeXT. Does anyone have a
>Prolog that works?

I was using cprolog for a while, it works just fine. (find it by using
archie) the only thing that doesn't work in cprolog is,

	In the bagof/setof operators you can hide variabled from
	the output list using the ^ operator. This doesn't work
	in cprolog (or any PD prolog interpreter that i could find)

vince
--
vince@whatnxt.cuc.ab.ca    (NeXT Mail accepted)
demarco@cpsc.ucalgary.ca


Nobody speaks the truth when there's something they must have.
ELIZABETH BOWEN 1899-1973
	
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
From: pfkeb@kaon.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Paul F. Kunz)
Subject: Re: NXBrowser Problem
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 04:50:04 GMT

>>>>> On Wed, 30 Dec 1992 00:32:27 GMT, pfkeb@slac.stanford.edu (Paul Kunz) said:

>    I have a problem creating a two column NXBrowser with two columns being  
> displayed.   Can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong.   In the init method  
> of the browser's degate I do

>     [[funcBrowser setMinColumnWidth:1] setMaxVisibleColumns:2];
>     [funcBrowser separateColumns:YES];

> as is recommended in the documentation of the -setMaxVisibleColumns method.    
> The second column is being loaded correctly, but only one column at a time  
> is being displayed.   The size of the cells in either column are small  
> enough that both columns can be displayed.

>    Am I missing something?

  This is a follow up to my own posting.   Still working on this
problem, I put the NXBrowser in a resizeable panel just to check that
my statement about the cells being small enough was true.   What I 
found was that if I resize this panel, then the browser displays
the two columns immediately.  This is true whether I make the panel
larger or smaller(!).

  So I'm still looking for the magic to make the browser display two
columns when it is first brought on screen.
--
Paul F. Kunz	pfkeb@slac.stanford.edu (NeXT mail ok)
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, Stanford University
Voice: (415) 926-2884   (NeXT) Fax: (415) 926-3587
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
From: billb@nasty (Bill Burcham)
Subject: Re: Problems using gcc 2.3.3
Organization: First National Bank Of Chicago, Chicago IL, USA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 15:40:24 GMT

In article <PFKEB.92Dec30221114@kaon.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>  
pfkeb@kaon.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Paul F. Kunz) writes:
> So here we are...
> 
> - gcc 2.3.3 doesn't support NeXT's extensions to Objective-C which
> were introduced with NeXTSTEP3.0   So you can't use gcc for any
> compilation requiring the appkit; cuz it will hit things like 
> ``@class'' almost immediately.

There are more reasons why you can't use gcc 2.3.3 to build Appkit  
programs.  One is that Appkit classes are built on top of NeXT's  
Objective-C runtime library which is _different_ from GNU's Objective-C  
runtime library.  Another problem (as you mention above) is that gcc does  
not recognize @class, @protocol, nor does it support NeXT's Distributed  
Objects stuff.

> - NeXT's cc++ doesn't support GNU's extension to the C++ language which
> were introduced with gcc 2.x.   So you can't use cc++ for any
> compilation requiring libg++; cuz it will hit things like
> ``#include-next stdlib.h'' almost immediately.

The main issue I have found here is that NeXT's Objective-C++ compiler  
does not support the C++ 2.1 standard (it supports the C++ 2.0 standard I  
believe).  You should be able to compile _old_ (version 1.3.7) versions of  
libg++ using NeXT's Objective-C++ compiler.

This is how I understand things:

                                  TOOL
                  Compiler               GNU Library Version
               _________________________________________________
          2.0 | NeXT Objective-C++ | (1.37) or (1.39 w/ hacks?) |
C++ std.      |--------------------|----------------------------|
          2.1 | GNU 2.3.2 (2.3.3?) | 2.2                        |
              ---------------------------------------------------

> So if I understand things right (please correct me if I'm wrong), we
> are really in bad shape.   We can't use both the latest release of
> gcc/libg++ and NeXTSTEP 3.0 in the same application.
> 
> Anybody else find this distrubing?

Since the GNU project seems uninterested in compat. w/ NeXT's  
Objective-C++ compiler and runtime (with Distrib. Obj., etc.), I think  
that the best we can hope for is that NeXT will bring Objective-C++ up to  
the C++ 2.1 standard so that we can compile the latest libg++ on NeXT.

PS Are nested function definitions part of the C++ 2.1 standard?  I  
believe that GNU's compiler allows these.  Does the GNU compiler have  
features outside the C++ 2.1 standard?  Does libg++ use any of these  
features?

> Paul F. Kunz	pfkeb@slac.stanford.edu (NeXT mail ok)

+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
|          Bill Burcham          | "Make no small plans; they have  |
| First National Bank of Chicago | no magic to stir men's souls"    |
|    billb@fnbc.com  (NeXTmail)  |      Daniel J. Burnham           |
+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Subject: Re:  Using the serial # in ROM as a copy protection mechanism...?
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:06:23 GMT

Matthew Dillon writes

>     AARRRGRG!! :-)  No serial or parallel port dongles!  They are
>     a mess...  a huge mess.  I have to deal with them on our IBM's
>     and, frankly, it is WORSE then machine-id keys.

Most dongle implementations are indeed really horrid.

If you absolutely have to have something physical, what might work
would be a single user-tied dongle, sort of like a start-up key
that you can take with you in your pocket.  It's insertion at the
end of an easily accessible chain (such as at an extra ADB port on
the top of the keyboard) would be required for powerup.  All software
would talk this one dongle protocol, and would tag itself to the
user's id contained in the dongle.

In this way, if the software was network installed, you could enable
it for a set of users, who could run it from any machine on the
network.  Or you could take your software to a service bureau on
a floppy, have it work there, and if you accidently leave it behind,
you've not violated any license agreement since it won't work
without your particular dongle plugged into the machine.

Of course, I personally think that user names & ids work just fine.

Tying a piece of software to host ID, however, is about the worst
thing I can think of.  Even worse than the stupid dongles hanging
off the serial port.

--
Scott Byer                             NeXTMail: byer@mv.us.adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim.Brownfield@f236.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Brownfield)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
Subject: Re: WANTED ADDITIONAL FUNCTIONALITY IN IB.
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:42:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/236 - MacCircles, Genesee CO

--  
Jim Brownfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Brownfield@f236.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
From: pfkeb@slac.stanford.edu (Paul Kunz)
Subject: Re: NXBrowser Problem
Reply-To: pfkeb@slac.stanford.edu
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:24:53 GMT

In article <C01qu3.57M@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> pfkeb@slac.stanford.edu  
(Paul Kunz) writes:
>    I have a problem creating a two column NXBrowser with two columns being  
> displayed.   Can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong.   In the init  
method  
> of the browser's degate I do
> 
>     [[funcBrowser setMinColumnWidth:1] setMaxVisibleColumns:2];
>     [funcBrowser separateColumns:YES];
> 
> as is recommended in the documentation of the -setMaxVisibleColumns  
method.    
> The second column is being loaded correctly, but only one column at a time  
> is being displayed.   The size of the cells in either column are small  
> enough that both columns can be displayed.
> 
   The answer came from someone at KSU whose name I lost...

	alt-click-drag the NXBrowser in IB

It behaves like a matrix of buttons, even thou it is not a matrix.
--
Paul F. Kunz	pfkeb@slac.stanford.edu (NeXT mail ok)
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, Stanford University
Voice: (415) 926-2884   (NeXT) Fax: (415) 926-3587
From: brunkhorst@mayo.edu (Geoff Brunkhorst)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
Subject: Answers to: Help: Problems Using Expansion Dictionary in Edit (3.0)
Keywords: Edit Edit.App Bugs
Date: 30 Dec 92 23:27:42 GMT
Reply-To: brunkhorst@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Foundation, Rochester MN. Campus

In article <1992Dec30.201224.22572@bmw.mayo.edu> brunkhorst@mayo.edu (Geoff  
Brunkhorst) writes:
> I am finaling working with my 3.0 machine, and have run smack into
> a major problem; the functionality of Edit's Expansion Dictionary
> is seems to be null for me.  I cannot get it to expand abbreviations,
> let alone creating fields within the expansion.

My NeXT CC came back with the suggestion of running with Emac's key-bindings
turned ON.  It didn't change the Expansion Dictionary's presentation (where
are all those buttons anyway?), but the escape key now works to signal
an abbreviation.

> Has anyone been able to put command-key equivs on
> User Pipe menu items via the documented method using
> pipedict?  I have tried, and it seems to ignore
> them.  Put the same line in .commanddict and it works
> with out a problem.

After some further testing, it is apparent that Edit will not use some keys as  
command-keys.  I was trying to use command-j for a date function (to mirror  
WordPerfect)  and it didn't work. Using command-5, all is well.  I cannot see
why command-j is not allowed, as it is not already defined as a command key
in Edit, nor is it used by any of the Services defined to work with Edit.


--
- Geoff
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Geoffrey Brunkhorst                           brunkhorst@Mayo.edu
Research Computing Facility, Guggenheim 10         (507) 284-1805
Mayo Foundation, Rochester MN, 55905, USA      fax (507) 284-5231 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
From: michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten)
Subject: Re: Drag and Drop behaviour for shelves (was: Re: UI: Suggestion for open and save panels)
Organization: STB BBS, La, Ca, 310 397 3137
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:38:41 GMT

In article <By2uws.80q@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens) writes:
>Larry Blische writes
>> Don't forget about the Font Panel.  I'd like to see a shelf there as
>> well to  hold the collection of fonts I'm using in a particular doc.
>
>Is there any panel that should not have a shelf?  I can't think of any.

Here's a better question: Is there any panel that *should* have a shelf?
Answer: ONLY the shelf application.

How's this for a UI: Eliminate all the shelfs from the workspace windows.
Add a new application who'se only function is to provide shelfs for
any other application to drop things on, or to be dragged from.

You can put a font object, or a file object, or even a miniwindow object,
or anything. All that you need to do is have some sort of drag&drop
protocol set up, where you can supply an image of what the shelf should
display (obvious for a file, not really obvious for a font).

Why make this change? Right now the Workspace is doing the work of
three different apps, and I find that I hate having to clutter my
screen with two of them when I only want one of them.

(Specifically, it does:
File navigation/manipulation
Shelf storage
Opening *all* directories from 'open .' (1)
And services menu central comminucation/application launching.

You cannot reduce a resizable shelf to size 0. You cannot expand a
resizable shelf to the full window size -- it insists on a shelf of
at least one line, and an icon area of at least one icon height.
By seperating the shelf into a seperate app, this problem is solved.)

		Michael
(1): When I want to look at a directory from the shell, I can type 'open .',
except that that unhides every workspace window that I have, and clutters
the screen, *BIG TIME*. Screen clutter is a mess on the NeXT; only VirtSpace
makes it workable. And then, if you accidently hide an app, the unhide will
destroy your carefully laid out window placement by trying to bring everything
on screen (which you didn't want). Only solution would be to make a serpate
"bring all windows onto screen" menu item. In fact, I'd like to see a
"arrange only non-miniwindows in front" menu item for when I only want the
windows currently on screen to be arranged, excluding the miniwindows which
get arranged anyways. Normally the arrange in front does not move windows
which are non mini and completely off screen.
-- 
	Michael Gersten		michael@stb.info.com
NeXT Registered Developer (NeRD) # 3860 -- Hire me! Quick!
Will program computers for food (and net connection, health benefits, cash,...)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
From: quarrie@cds001.cebaf.gov (David Quarrie)
Subject: Re: Unresolved references when linking
Reply-To: quarrie@cds001.cebaf.gov (David Quarrie)
Organization: CEBAF (Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:36:50 GMT

--
In article <1h8f0hINNota@ni.umd.edu>, louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A.
Mamakos) writes:
|>
|>In article <1992Dec22.173036.7075@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
|>quarrie@cds001.cebaf.gov (David Quarrie) writes:
|>>--
|>>I'm experiencing problems with unresolved references when using
|>archives (.a).
|>>This isn't just my own .a files, but also libX11.a for X-Windows. As
|>far as
|>>I can ascertain, it's a problem with global symbols instead of global
|>routines
|>>and can be illustrated by the following (I haven't actually done the
|>following
|>>since I'm not in front of my NeXT but I think it should illustrate
|>the
|>>problem):
|>
|>[...example omitted...]
|>
|>>Am I doing something stupid? Is it a case of RTFM? So far I've
|>managed to force
|>>linking to succeed by extracting the appropriate .o files from the
|>library
|>>and explicitly linking them, but I wouldn't have thought I should
|>need to do 
|>>that. 
|>
|>Stupid?  Well, I don't think so.  Yes, RTFM, specifically 'man
|>ranlib'.  I think the -c option will do what you need.
|>
|>
|>louie
|>

Louie is, of course, absolutely correct. ranlib -c works just fine and does the
job. There are times when I just HATE U**x and the fact that they all appear
to be identical, but they're all just a little bit different. I think it's
worse than using VAX/VMS and U**x, at least you know they're going to be
different.

I'm also intrigued by the fact that the libX11.a supplied by Cub'X also needs
this to be done. Is this a well known fact or am I the first person to try
building an X application? -)

Thanks again to Louie...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	David Quarrie					CEBAF MS 12H
							12000 Jefferson Ave
Internet: quarrie@cebaf.gov				Newport News VA 23606
DECnet  : cebaf::quarrie				Tel: (804) 249-7562
BITNET  : quarrie@cebaf					Fax: (804) 249-5800
From: absinthe@viva.chem.washington.edu (Daniel Faken)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
Subject: Not being unhidden when providing a service.
Date: 29 Dec 92 03:43:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1hohhkINN2a0
Reply-To: absinthe@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: viva.chem.washington.edu

Is there a straightforward way to do this?
appDidUnhide: comes before the service message, so I can't simply
  Deactivate Requestor: NO and then open windows iff I get a service
  call first.  (and `Activate Provider: NO' does not prevent unhiding)

thanks for any help,
--
      Daniel Faken          |    Name a poison,
absinthe@u.washington.edu   |    pick your flavour.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
From: sam@musical.fdn.org (Sam Przyswa)
Subject: cc problems ???
Reply-To: sam@musical.fdn.org
Organization:  Rock'n Jazz BBS - (The Music Land)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 17:24:39 GMT

		Hi all,

	Big problem, all the sources files what I have, can t be compiled  
with NeXTStep 3.0 stuffs, WHAT HAPPENS !?, does I have to back to NeXTStep  
2.1 ???

	I m stopped in my work, does the C source code is portable on  
whole platforms exept the NeXT ???

		Sam (I need some help...)
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Sam Przyswa                                << Rockn Jazz BBS >>
    E-Mail: sam@musical.fdn.org     Paris        FidoNet: 2:320/102  
  --<NeXTmail accepted 10Ko max>--  France        Music & Midi BBS
From: scheurer@lithnext.epfl.ch (Marco Scheurer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer
Subject: wanted: Stepstone's ICPack info
Date: 30 Dec 92 09:59:22 GMT
Reply-To: scheurer@lithnext.epfl.ch

Hi,

Has anyone here used ICPack from Stepstone on the NeXT and wants to comment on  
it? Can it be used with NeXT kits? Is it useful? Thanks.
---
Marco Scheurer	scheurer@lithnext.epfl.ch (NeXTMail)
Laboratoire d'Informatique Theorique
Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne
IN-Ecublens
CH-1015 Lausanne (Switzerland)
(+41) 21 693-2589
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer