HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Derailing the Reagan Revolution: Part zero: highlights
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 19 Aug 92 02:08:30 EST
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <1992Aug19.003724.6521@meteor.wisc.edu>, stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Steve Jascourt) writes:
> In article <1992Aug18.013719.3556@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
>> [concerning article he posted from Forbes magazine]
>>	We'll see that while places like Eastern Europe and Mexico use the
>>Supply Side Bible to bootstrap themselves into prosperity, the US, Japan and
>>Europe seem content to emulate the failed socialist systems we defeated in the
>>cold war.
>>
>>Brett                                                      
> 
> The systems referred to as "we defeated in the cold war" were NOT socialist.

	Look, Steve.  We know all the die-hard socialists hopped on the "that
wasn't socialism!!!" bandwagon as soon as the socialist countries started
dropping like flies.

	But they called themselves socialist.  They named themselves socialist. 
They followed socialist precepts.  They quacked like socialists.

	So while you'd like to hold up a re-labeled bottle of snake oil as the
"new improved socialism", it just isn't going to work.

	Funny how a system that is supposedly so great cannot be made to work
in any part of the world, and currently has no adherents, eh?

	Oh--all this backpeddling would be just a wee bit more believable if it
had been done during the heydays of the xUSSR, instead of after the coup
failed.

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.misc
From: maxwell@fnalb.fnal.gov
Subject: NORML conf in SF, Labor Day weekend.
Organization: What does *this* button do!?
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:07:30 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalb.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

The 22nd annual NORML conference is coming up...

The vitals are:
  Sept. 4-6
  Westin St. Francis Hotel                 
  San Francisco, Ca.     

  conf (member)   $50    Chex payable to NORML
   "   (non " )   $75    No refunds after 21 August.
  adv.reg.       -$10    for more info : 900-97-NORML [$2.95/min, over 18 only]
  benefit dinner  $50

 The hotel costs $95/night, reservations:1-800-228-3000]
 The official airline is United, 1-800-521-4041, refer to group id# 530KW
 The theme is MJ as Medicine.

Seems like there ought to be an @ party...esp. given the high concentration of 
net.people in the area. 

Have a nice Labor Day Weekend, folx. I know I will.  

regards.max
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: El Salvador: Death Squads Escalate
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:26:07 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Aug13.032845.18340@news.duc.auburn.edu> blackmon@eng.auburn.edu writes:
>>Does anyone else find the inclusion of right wing ads in a list of
>>murders revealing?  Apparently right wing ads are just as bad as
>>killing activists, eh Harel?  But if the people you support get
>>control of El Salvador they'll end all that, won't they?  Free speech?
>>Who needs it?

>I think the emphasis was on the fact that the right-wing ads were
>blasting peace accords.  

So what?  You mean that's as bad as murder?

>Reread the article.

I don't need to.  I read that part and I considered it to be irrelevant.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: harelb@MATH.CORNELL.EDU (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.bush,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc
Subject: "SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS"
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:45:45 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.elections
Organization: misc.activism.progressive on UseNet ; ACTIV-L@UMCVMB


		=====================================
		" S p e c i a l   I n t e r e s t s "
		=====================================

"An important semantic development of the past decade that is closely
related to the doublespeak of moderateness and extremism is the new
usage of the concept of "special interests." In earlier years,
special interests meant narrow groups, mainly business groups, who
seek political privilege by lobbying and bribery. Recently, special
interests has come to mean blacks, women, Hispanics, labor, unions,
farmers, and others who add up to a very subtantial majority of the
population. At the same time, business interests are no longer
included in the category -- and by an unspoken new premise their
interests have become synonymous with the National Interest. This
premise is base on the fact that many politicians cannot imagine a
solution to economic problems other than by making things attractive
for business investment; and if they did propose an alternative
solution their campaign funding would dry up ..."

		Edward S. Herman, on "`Moderates' & `Extremists'" in
		his column on "DoubleSpeak," Z magazine, March 1988

[For more about Z, email harelb@math.cornell.edu]
Xref: sparky alt.activism:15304 soc.culture.latin-america:3200 talk.politics.misc:41451
From: mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,misc.headlines,alt.desert-storm,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: U.S. "TO PROVOKE IRAQ" on MONDAY
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:41:28 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gelato.mips.com

Michael P. Deignan (KD1HZ)) writes:
|> harelb@MATH.CORNELL.EDU (Harel Barzilai) writes:
|> 
|> >Topic 31        -> U.S. TO PROVOKE IRAQ MONDAY <-       2 responses 
|> 
|> How does it feel to be consistantly wrong?
|> 
|> 
Since it was a White House leak, I can live with it.
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: maxwell@fnalf.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: More War Drums
Organization: What does *this* button do!?
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:09:45 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalf.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug11.095544.1@mdcbbs.com>, rivero@mdcbbs.com writes:
> In article <Bsrx59.I22@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman) writes:
>> 
>> More war drums from the U.S. Ministry of Propaganda. Maybe, maybe, 
>> there really are concentration camps in Serbia, etcetera. All I have 
>> seen so far on the mass media broadcasts are war prisoners, some of 
>> them looking quite skinny. Perhaps this *is* proof that there is a new 
>> holocaust going on in what used to be Yugoslavia.
>>
> ..............
>  
>> Or again, recall the Viet Nam war and how it got sold to us. There was 
>> the "Gulf of Tonkin Incident" which in fact turned out to be not as 
>> depicted. And of course there was the "Domino Theory" which today 
>> seems more like paranoia than theory. The point is that people got 
>> fooled and the war machinery was permitted to be activated. Noam 
>> Chomsky points this out in his books. The way in which the U.S. sells 
>> war to its people is under the guise of us protecting either ourselves 
>> or somebody else. According to Chomsky, this is how we hide our 
>> aggression.
>> 
> 
>   How about the news report that a female prisoner claimed to have been
> raped an average of 10 times a day and that her captors announced a plan
> to deliberatly impregnate as many women as possible?
> 
>   Kinda reminds me of that nurse who was interviewed just before we bombed
> Bahgdad back to the start of the industrial age. She claimed that the Iraq
> soldiers were removing premature babies from incubators and shipping the
> units back to Iraq, thus leaving the babies to die. Great PR, made people
> mad as hell, except...........  Except that the "nurse" turned out to be
> the daughter of a high Kuwaiti official, and the story was a complete
> fabrication, designed to goad us along the road to war.
> 
>> 
>> Look out. They're doing it again.
>> 
>   Yep. 'pears like it.


I posted the following to alt.news-media, but as usual, got no nibbles. I
dunno, maybe I shoulda crossposted to the world, or maybe it was too subtle...:

[ Newsgroups: alt.news-media
[ From: maxwell@fnala.fnal.gov
[ Subject: Nightline on Serbian death camps
[ Organization: What does *this* button do!?
[ Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 19:12:15 GMT
[
[ I just happened to tune in _smartline_ last night, and discovered kookie
[ roberts instead of ted koppel.
[
[ The topic was the *alleged* Serbian concentration camps.
[
[ Was anyone else out there reminded of ... baby incubators?
[
[ regards.max

I noticed that last night's CNN drivel included "balanced coverage". Pictures
of squeaky-kleen Croation run POW camps. *Someone* in former yogoslavia
understands the power of television. Or someone in New York, or the beltway...

whatever.max
From: mitja@hera.Berkeley.EDU (Mitja Baumhackl)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: University of California settles lawsuit for $25,000
Date: 12 Aug 1992 14:48:14 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hera.berkeley.edu
Keywords: People's Park


>From SF Chronicle, Tuesday, August 11, 1992 p. A16 (Bay Area Report)

BERKELEY - Two men arrested for allegedly vandalizing property near People's
Park received $25,000 from the University of California in a lawsuit settlement.

David Kamola, 33, and Christopher Mackinney, 36, allegedly drew anti-UC
slogans on a sidewalk adjacent to People's Park last year.  UC police held
them in custody for eight hours after their arrest.  No charges were ever
filed.

Both men filed a suit against the university on the grounds that their First
Amendment rights were violated.

"It's pretty clear the reason why they were arrested was because they were
at People's Park," said David Beauvais, Kamola's attorney.

Carla Shapreau, attorney for the UC Regents, said the men taunted police
officers and provoked the incident by trying to incite a large crowd that
had formed at the scene.

"This is a bogus claim," she said.  "These individuals set these officers
up and provoked this incident.  The officers acted reasonably and with
probable cause."

Worried that a long, drawn out trial might waste taxpayers' dollars, UC
decided to settle the matter, said Shapreau.

---------------------------
Well, yet another instance where we can see how UC and the City of Berkeley
ignored the First Amendment as they rolled 350 armed officers into town
during the People's Park demonstrations...watch out soon for the
settlement of BAUMHACKL V. CITY OF BERKELEY.

mitja@hera.berkeley.edu
Opinions expressed are mine alone and are not endorsed by the University of
California or my employer.


Xref: sparky alt.activism:14892 talk.politics.drugs:5820 alt.society.civil-liberty:5555 seattle.general:2586
Newsgroups: alt.activism,misc.headlines,alt.desert-storm,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: U.S. "TO PROVOKE IRAQ" on MONDAY
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:39:32 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

harelb@MATH.CORNELL.EDU (Harel Barzilai) writes:


> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>Topic 31        -> U.S. TO PROVOKE IRAQ MONDAY <-       2 responses 
>sfreedkin       News of Actions for Mideast Activists    9:10 am  Aug 16, 1992 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Phony leak....and it hasn't happened.  You complete leftists just won't
give up on the idea that Bush is going to use military intervention to 
try and 'steal' the election.  What happened to the invasion of Cuba?  Or
some other minor country?  Hmm??

>HOUSTON -- The United States and its allies have decided to provoke a
>confrontation with Iraq on Monday morning* over the right to inspect
>Baghdad's most closely guarded ministry buildings, American officials
>familiar with administration planning said on Saturday.
Hasn't happened, and the Iraqis have cooperated...because of the
understanding that they HAVE to cooperate...In fact, the UN inspectors have
been into the buildings they wanted to and are leaving today...

>"We aren't doing anything that we haven't been doing for the last two
>years in terms of insisting that Saddam Hussein comply with U.N.
>resolu- tions," Cheney told reporters in Seattle.
Totally correct...

>Initially, Bush has selected a set of military options that pose the
>least risk to American military forces, though the loss or capture of
>any American pilots could deal Bush a damaging political blow.
Which is exactly why he WOULDN'T do this...That and the fact that he is a
bit more responsible than you claim...


Still waiting for that huge use of military force by George Bush that you
leftist whiners keep claiming is going to happen.  Glad I'm not holding my
breath...

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.discrimination,talk.abortion
From: rjohnson@shell.com (Roy Johnson)
Subject: Re: FOCA: And I quote.....
Organization: Houston, TX
	<RJOHNSON.92Aug18092840@conus.shell.com>
	<1992Aug20.231602.2133@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
Date: 21 Aug 92 10:43:09

smccabe@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Sarah A McCabe) writes:
 >>because pregnancy would interfere with vacation plans.
			    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 >Could you please provide some documentation for this claim?  Perhaps
 >something a little more verifiable thatn "it could have happened so it
 >probably did" or "my best-friend's sister's next-door-neighbor's niece did
 >this."  Thanks ever so.

What, anecdotal evidence isn't any good anymore?  8^)  I read it in
a series of interviews done by one of the Houston papers, and it stood
out in my mind as outrageous.  That's the best I can give as a source.

I make no representation that it is a common thing (in fact, that was
the point of my mentioning it), only that it is an area that is currently
permissible and potentially in need of examination.  This remains true
even if all of the abortions done to date were done for medical reasons.


--
Roy Johnson, who is not Kibo
Shell Development Company (but speaking for myself)
"There's a big difference between being a lesbian and being a male!"
			-- tabn3@isuvax.iastate.edu (Griffy)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,alt.politics.elections,talk.environment,alt.save.the.earth,misc.jobs.misc,sci.econ
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: STUDY: NAFTA TO CAUSE U.S. JOB, INCOME LOSS
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: Curious Goods (formerly Louis Vendredi Antiques)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:02:54 GMT

foster@leland.Stanford.EDU (Pablo Estrada) writes:
>
>	If you want to do some in-depth research yourself into free-
>trade and its likely effects on the different types of economies, I
>would recommend to you the topic of "Comparative Advantage," which
>should be covered by any worthwhile basic-economics text.

Back in Canada, the US-Canada Free Trade Agreement is popularly
unpopular despite all the numbers that are printed in the very same
newspapers containing Op-Ed and Letters-to-the-Editor decrying the 3.5
year old treaty.  People will blame the FTA when they get gas rather
than take an Eno.  New York Times Business recently printed an article
summarizing these figures from the Canadian press and from Royal Bank
studies, and on Monday had a Business section lead article on how
American textile PAC's are trying to counteract Peerless Clothing of
Montreal's success in European-style men's wool suits (Brooks Brothers
is a big customer).  Last night, UPI Clarinet reported that Amdahl is
expanding their software development programme at their Toronto lab
(meanwhile, it's still impossible to get an interview at their Silicon
Valley lab if you're outside of the California vicinity -- this is not
a flame at Amdahl, things are tight in the Valley).  But I'm sure with
the announcement of the NAFTA treaty today, there will be cries of how
it and the existing FTA should be torn up ...

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				Elections 1992-93:
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		* Jean Chretien (Canada)
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			* Perot^H^H^H^H^H Elvis! (USA)
Xref: sparky alt.activism:14939 alt.individualism:5257 talk.politics.misc:40188
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack Newsbaum)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Age of Consent
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:39:34 GMT

In article <fulton.713807217@copper>, on 14 Aug 1992 15:46:57 GMT,
fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton) writes:

>
>In <19920813203901ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack Newsbaum) writes:
>
>>systems. Children are required to live according to the rules set up by
>>their parents, and child abuse is always forbidden. Presumably, the
>>parents would not consent to their children having sex with adults.
>
>Presumably, but not definitively.  If the parent does consent, however,
>I do not believe that young children have the ability to make the decision
>for themselves.  Here are the lines from the platform I have problems with:
>
If the parents approve, and the child is in no way coerced to engage
in sex with an adult, who then is in a better position than they to
determine that the experience is inappropriate? In the real world, I
don't see this as a problem. Where there is, apparently a problem, is
with incest between a parent and a child. The child, out of
inexperience, may acquiesce to a parent's advances.

>>persons who are  willing to assume guardianship, and children have the
>>right to seek other guardians who place a higher value on their lives.
>
>and
>
>>Children should always  have the right  to establish their maturity by
>>assuming administration and  protection of their  own  rights,  ending
>>dependency upon their  parents or other guardians and assuming all the
>>responsibilities of adulthood.
>
>Well and good, but what happens when my 8-year old decides I make her
>go to bed too early, and decides to "seek other guardians", or move out
>on her own?  While the ability of children to make their own decisions is
>not directly based on age, it is related, and I don't think the platform
>covers well enough the gray area of those who think they are capable of
>making their own decisions, but demonstrably are not.
>
You can always try to persuade her that you are acting in her best
interests. If she is unconvinced, and does not come crawling back home,
but actually finds new guardians who will make her happier, what's
wrong with that?

If she actually is capable of establishing her own independence and
providing for her own needs, even though she is chronologically only
eight, sho would have demonstrated her ability to manage her own
affairs, and would be a de facto adult. You would be due congratulations
on having raised a precocious child.

>ben
>fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
>will be president for food
>
    ====Jack====
Newsgroups: alt.activism,misc.headlines,alt.flame
From: eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler)
Subject: Re: U.S. "TO PROVOKE IRAQ" on MONDAY
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 04:04:14 GMT
Organization: Culturale Elit
Followup-To: alt.flame

In <1992Aug18.005907.22452@anomaly.sbs.risc.net>, kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net sez:
>harelb@MATH.CORNELL.EDU (Harel Barzilai) writes:

>>Topic 31        -> U.S. TO PROVOKE IRAQ MONDAY <-       2 responses 
>
>How does it feel to be consistantly wrong?
                               ^

Dactar af phalasaphy Daagnan, heal thyself.


-- 
blah blah Communism blah blah Berlin wall blah blah school prayer blah blah
slick blah blah Communism blah blah Navy flier blah abortion on demand blah
blah Hillary blah blah Communism blah blah thirty million new j -- er, blah
	   Mark Eckenwiler    eck@panix.com     ...!cmcl2!panix!eck
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Ethnic Cleansing
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 18:14:04 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA

In article <1992Aug14.141448.9691@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> aj336@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pat Weber) writes:

>[Ethnic Cleansing stuff]

>This is cultural evolution, the strongest survive. It's not 'nice',
>nor would I want to be 'cleansed' by the Canadians, but it's a fact
>of life. We are animals and we struggle for survival - it's
>Nationalism, the nemisis of World Government.

I assure you, Sir or Madam, as the case might be, that Canadians are quite
incapable of cleansing anything, let alone your ethnics. By the time the
anglos decided how to do it, the francophones would threaten to turn Quebec
into Disneyland North<tm>, and the entire nation would creep to a halt -
probably for several decades.

I agree that we have _tried_, with enormous energy, to 'cleanse' the Native
peoples for hundreds of years. That they not only survive, but continue to
resist our ethnic efforts, and evolve more effective methods of resistance.

That might be taken by some as an accurate measure of our abilities in this
regard, and should, by the same measure, completely reassure you :-)

-- 
"THIRTEEN TRANSPORTS, comprising 13,000 Jews, were sent from Theresienstadt
to ghettos of the Lublin  district between  March 12 and June 13, 1942.  At
least  6,000 of  these Jews  were  murdered in  Sobibor and  about 7,000 in
Belzec." (Testimony of Yehuda Lerner)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.drugs,alt.society.civil-liberty,seattle.general
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: SWAT team kills innocent woman in No-Knock raid.
Keywords: SWAT police no-knock raid death
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 06:18:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.204906.11264@eskimo.celestial.com> wix@eskimo.celestial.com (Dennis Wicks) writes:
}This is indeed a tradgedy, and someone should pay for it, and I don't
}mean monetarily, and this practice should be stopped.

Hey!  Don't knock monetary restitution!  While perhaps insufficient, it can
only help if the individual(s) responsible support those orphaned by their
misconduct.

}The people at fault were far removed from the action.  The investigators
}who decided to act on the tip, the watch commander and other ranking
}officials in the law enforcement agencies that let the tips be acted
}on without further investigation, and possibly most of all, the 
}judges that issued the no-knock warrants on such flimsy evidence.

So the victims should be able to sue for restitution, which can be monetary
at least in part, from those who were jointly the agents who committed the
crime.  Right?

}I think we can all remember cases where the original suspects were 
}later found to be innocent.  But there seems to be an attitude in 
}the law enforcement agencies and the prosecutors offices that the
}first person that becomes a suspect is the guilty party and all
}further investigation stops.  I am certain that somebody will say 
}that the police don't have the manpower to do all that investigating,
}but it seems to me that if they spent more time investigating
}they wouldn't be wasting so much time on arresting and prosecuting 
}people who turn out to be innocent.

One of the advantages of restitutional justice is that it gives the victims
monetary incentive to bring the perpetrator to justice.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc