HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From:  (MJ)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W loads???
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:00:09 GMT


In article <1993Jan20.212927.4579@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>,
jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) wrote:
# 
# As I mentioned, I bought a Glock 23 (small .40 S&W) last fall.  Has anyone
# seen any "good" loads for this caliber?  I have a local source (Miller)
# for very hard 200 gr. LSWC?  If possible, I would like to match the recoil
# (and accuracy) of some of the popular JHP loads (Silvertip, Corbon, etc.).
#  
# I have ordered a Glock 20 (10mm) as well.  Is there a reason why they
# designed these 2 cartridges with different size primers?  Does anyone make
# brass for one or the other that uses the same size primers as the other?

The .40 doesn't use a large primer because supposedly the ejector may set
off a live round if manually ejected.  I don't know of anyone making small
primered 10MM brass.

MJ

[As if you didn't already know, my opinions are my own and not my
company's.]
From: mn29+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Anthony Nicholson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .264 Win. Mag
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:37 GMT

CC

Is anyone out there familiar with the .264 win mag?  I've had one for 5
years now and only know 1 person who has one.  I love the rifle for long
range shooting, mainly due to it's amazing accuracy.  I would also like
some reloading tips.

Thanks,
Mark
From: wkb@cblph.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: the spirit of rec.guns
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:52:43 GMT
Organization: AT&T


    > About this idea of putting subject keywords at the beginning of each
    > subject line:
    > ...
    > Bottom line: in my opinion, there should not be more than four or five
    > standard, accepted keywords, specifying broad categories.  ...
    > 
    > [MODERATOR:  Conventions like these appear elsewhere in the net, e.g.
    > there are conventions for posting multiple uuencoded image files over
    > in the sources directories, with subject line set up so that a decoder
    > can reconstruct the original file automatically.   What is your
    > opinion of the effectiveness over there?  Is it just not worth the
    > bother for us to fool with it here?]


    In the [alt/rec/sci].aquaria groups, we use:

      [F],(F) = freshwater
      [M],(M) = marine
      [R],(R) = reef

    I'd say that only about half the postings use them.  Also, there is
    probably a bigger percentage of people interested in, say, freshwater
    aquaria only than, say, rifles only (just my gut feeling).  And a note:
    we started out with the square brackets, but have been moving to parens
    because of problems the brackets cause with some news readers out there.
    To conserve subject line space, as was mentioned before, we could use:

      (R) = rifle
      (P) = pistol
      (S) = shotgun
      (A) = automatic (full)
      (D) = personal defense
      (L) = reloading
      etc. ...

    FWIW.

    -- Keith

-- 
    | (614) 860-3187         Copyright (C) 1993, by       AT&T, Room 3B202 |
    | att!cblph!wkb  or,     W.K. Brummett and AT&T      6200 E. Broad St. |
    | wkb@cblph.att.com       All rights reserved.      Columbus, OH 43213 |
    `----------------------------------------------------------------------'
From: hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: BEST SHOTGUN DEFENSE ROUND?
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:02:38 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <> FKK@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
|> 
|>  The drawback is that these 3" shells really kick.  Any comment?

 "Felt" recoil is all in your mind.

 Sure, out on the range, that monster magnum kicks like a mule 
 but when you're out hunting and that dove/duck/goose/deer comes
 by and you take aim and shoot - hey, where'd the recoil go?!
 You didn't "notice" it because your attention was on the game
 and not the gun.  

 With training and practice, you won't even notice the recoil in
 a defensive situation - because your mind will be on the "game".


 TRAVIS
From: guerry@iluvatar.tip.duke.edu (Guerry A. Semones)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Marine Sniper
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:15:45 GMT


In article <4378@eastman.UUCP>  (MJ) writes:
# 
# Marine Sniper by Charles Henderson (Pub: Berkley) has been getting some
# attention on rec.guns.
[Stuff Deleted]
# Unfortunately and until recently I've only seen this book
# offered by mail order and in hardcopy.  A friend recently found the
# $4.99 paperback version in the History section of B. Dalton Booksellers, 
# a mall bookstore chain.

I have seen the paperback version in several of your bookstore chains,  
i.e. B. Dalton, Walden, Wills, etc.  All of these stores have a History  
Section.  I got my copy for Christmas.  It didn't last me two days, but it  
cost me some sleep!  8^)

Hathcock is an amazing man who was extremely dedicated to serving his  
country and to the sport of shooting.  That book made me think; alot.  It  
has been a month since I finished it and it still comes to mind almost  
daily: what level of dedication to excellence do I practice?  How far will  
I go to serve what I believe in?  Tough questions.  Hathcock is a tough  
man.
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ammo
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:17:15 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1993Jan26.151052.258@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger) writes:
# I have heard a semi-official, probably true rumor that Winchester has
# yielded to law enforcement entreaties and is going to change the name
# of the Black Talon ammo to something a defense attorney can't use for
# his or his clients personal gain.
# 
# |Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA

"Fluffy Bunny Slippers"?
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
From: roa@galen.med.virginia.edu (Robert O. Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Recoil Formula ??
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:24:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: galen.9301261257.AA57860



        Well, I misplaced the formula for recoil and the boy wants a 
Remington 7mm Magnum. Although I'd kinda like to have one, I'm semi-
half-heartedly trying to talk him into a .270. I don't have anything in 
comparable recoil except maybe an 870 3" mag. If someone could email the 
formula for recoil I would appreciate it.

Thanks

bobby
From: SYSTEMM@FRED.ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL (System Manager Wuest)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: AMT Longslide  (good gun?)
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:25:08 GMT


  I need a real "shooter" for IPSC and bowling pin matches this year - just
  getting started.  I don't want to invest a king's ransom because: 1) I
  can't afford it, 2) I won't be very competitive, and 3) this may not be
  my cup of tea.  Caliber is .45, the standard for pins, I understand.

  The local GOB gun shoppe has a consigment AMT Longslide for $350.  Wadda
  'ya think?  I'm a little lerry of an almost new gun being returned to the 
  shop.  This gun looked OK, but needed a good cleaning.  I would have 
  thought the guy would have cleaned her up real nice for selling.  The
  handling felt read good in the store.  That heavy front end would probably
  be steady, and tame the muzzle flip somewhat.

  Also I'm somewhat scared of off brands.  All my previous experience has
  been positive, but then I've only ever bought the big 6 brand names.  
  That's Colt, Remington, Winchester, Browning, S & W and Ruger, if you 
  have to ask.  (Well, I did buy a Davis once ;-)

  Talked to a friend last night that bought one of the earlier serial #'s.
  Said he had to do some machining (a la gunsmithing) work on it.  Luckily
  that is his line of work.  Also he said it would not shoot a whole clip
  of lead bullets, the rifling was too rough, and leadded up within 6 rounds.
  I expect lead RN reloads to be the major practice round of choice.  
  
  Appreciate any feedback.  I had been giving some thought to a Springfield
  imitation of a Commander (new), but hadn't started looking yet.  

==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==
|  Mike Wuest, Allin1, DDN, & VAX Systems Manager  SYSTEMM@ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL |
| Disclaimer: Opinions are like ears; everybody has a couple - these are mine!|
|  "My children, we are strong; we are numerous as the stars in the heavens,  |
|   and we are all _gunmen_, yet we live in peace and friendship ..."         |
|       Thomas Jeffferson, 1805  To the presently assembled Indians           |
|==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==
From: bd474@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill McDonald)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: SKS Cleaning Rod
Date: 25 Jan 93 01:04:46 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)



I was looking closely at an SKS the other day and wonder how the
designer intended the cleaning rod to be used.  It's too short to go all the way
through the barrel, but has screw threads on one end, as if it was
supposed to be attached to another device/rod (perhaps a separate piece of
field gear?) to make a full-length cleaning tool.

Does anybody know how a soldier in the field made any good use of this
apparently too-short rod?

McD
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm Glock problems?
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:31 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:


#The California Highway Patrol, when they tested the Glock 10mm did
#find some cracking problems (I believe in that part of the gun), but
#they were using prototypes which Glock had specifically stated should
#_not_ be used in prolonged tests. The production 10mm were slightly
#redesigned to reduce/eliminate this problem.

I thought the story was that they had been given a non-firing 
prototype, and that they had been given it for looks, with
the understanding that it was not to be used in any kind of 
tests.  Someone in the CHP wanted the S&W to come out looking 
good, so he had a "shootout" of the S&W vs the non-firing Glock
prototype.   The S&W won.

JD
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Buying out-of-state
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:00:00 GMT


#There are some exceptions to the prohibition against interstate
#sales of firearms.  In particular, if your state and an adjoining
#state both agree that out-of-state purchases are OK between those
#two states, and if the purchase is legal at both ends of the
#transaction, then it is legal to make an out-of-state purchase.

True, except that it doesn't have to be an adjoining state - one
can buy longarms in any state, as long as both states' laws are
followed.

I've found that many dealers would much rather transfer the sale
through an FFL so as to avoid the hassle, however.

To compound the question, would non-residents be able to buy in IL?
Obviously they wouldn't have the IL FOID card.  If they are able to,
they would definitely still be subjected to the IL waiting period.

Rob
From: hays@SSD.intel.com (Kirk Hays)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: hand shake
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:40:57 GMT
Organization: Intel Supercomputer Systems Division

In article <9301211626.aa10989@salmon.maths.tcd.ie>, dc@maths.tcd.ie (Daniel Carroll) writes:
|> 
|>    What would you experrts out there recomend to someone with a slight
|> shake in their hand.I myself suffer from this inheireted disease and i
|> would like to know if there is a way of increasing the accuracy of 
|> my shot.

Aspirin - about two grams (4 - 500mg tablets) works for me, your mileage 
may vary.

Alcohol works, also, but I never have guns around when I drink.

Avoid coffee, tea, and chocolate (noooooooo!) - they make the problem worse.

-- 
Kirk Hays - NRA Life, seventh generation.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing."  -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
From: lilianstrom@krang.fnal.gov (If its too loud,  You're too old)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Seagal's Firearms handling (was: Re: Got One! (Spring. Arm. 1911-A1))
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:24:56 GMT
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division, Special Projects Group

In article <1993Jan26.002742.22687@ttinews.tti.com>, hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
#In article <199301230809.AA26704@news.service.uci.edu> spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett) writes:
#}In article <9301221707.AA16674@mmddvan.mdd.comm.mot.com> booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth) writes:
#
#}#My Black Badge Instructor mentioned he had seen Steven Seagal compete in IPSC 
#}#matches, and that Mr. Seagal knew his stuff.
#
#}... The gunsmith that builds most of my stuff built a stainless Colt for Seagal
#}last year. I asked what movie it was for and he said he thought it was for 
#}Seagals personal use. I also know others out here who've built other stuff 
#}for him as well. I think he feels technical realism in movies is important. ...
#
#I read somewhare that Seagal was a professional body guard before he got
#into acting.  As such, he knows the ropes and tries to make his films as
#realistic as possible.
#

When 'Above the Law' came out, there were some interviews with Seagal that had
him being in SouthEast Aisa 'working' during the 70's and always having the 
CIA attempt to recruit him. Some of his experiences are said to have been
incorporated into that particular film.

			al

Al Lilianstrom
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
Batavia, Illinois
lilianstrom@fndcd.fnal.gov

My opinion.  Not the DOE's, URA's, or anyone else at Fermilab
From: nahst6+@pitt.edu (Nathan A Horstman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 10mm and CHP
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:17:13 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


In article <MAILQUEUE-101.930126081318.288@english.as.ua.edu> DHORTON@ENGLISH.AS.UA.EDU (David A. Horton) writes:
#I seem to recall that once the 10mm had been ruled out as a round due
#to its heavy recoil and the 40 was accepted, the S&W 4006 that made
#the 5000 round mark had a problem with a "creeping" firing pin. The
#pin would work itself loose and had to be pushed back in with a
#finger so testing could resume. While not ruled a product failure (
#she kept on spitting out lead), it finally broke somewhere around
#5200 rounds I think. Glock, as I understood it, had to scramble to
#design a pistol capable of firing the 40 S&W and as such was
#handicapped from a R&D perspective.
#David A. Horton

I take it they use SW4006 now?  Correct me if I'm wrong...

Nathan

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<-->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       G  O       H  O  U  S  T  O  N 
<<      Nathan A. Horstman      >>  OOOO  IIIIII LL     EEEEEE RRRRR   SSSS  ||
<<   University of Pittsburgh   >> OO  OO   II   LL     EE     RR  RR SS     ||
<< in%"nahst6@vms.cis.pitt.edu" >> OO  OO   II   LL     EEEE   RRRRR   SSSS  ||
<<      nahst6+@pitt.edu        >> OO  OO   II   LL     EE     RR RR      SS ||
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<-->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  OOOO  IIIIII LLLLLL EEEEEE RR  RR  SSSS  oo
From: crmeyer@voodoo.physics.ucsb.edu (Charles Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: For Sale: Webley Tempest Air Pistol
Date: 25 Jan 93 03:09:52 GMT

---- Beeman/Webly Tempest .177 cal Air Pistol for sale -----
 
o 6.75" rifled ordinance steel barrel
o Spring piston cocking (barrel)
o 32 oz weight / 9" long overall
o checkered grip with thumbrest
o Sights: Post front, sliding rear leaf adj. for windage/elevation
o 470 Feet/second
o Adjustable trigger pull + saftey
o Single shot
o in very good condition
 
only $70 + shipping (list: $159)
(this transaction presumes that you have no laws in your area prohibiting
the mail order of air pistols)
 

                      +-------------------------------------------+
                      |         Charles R. Meyer                  |
                      |                                           |
                      | Internet: crmeyer@voodoo.physics.ucsb.edu |
                      | Bitnet:   crmeyer@voodoo                  |
                      | HEPnet:   voodoo::crmeyer                 |
                      +-------------------------------------------+
From: DHORTON@ENGLISH.AS.UA.EDU (David A. Horton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun in an Apartment
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:02:00 GMT
Organization: University of Alabama English Dept.

Patrick Law:

Why not consider having your apartment lock(s) changed/upgraded?
Seems like a small price to pay for added security. Anytime I move
that's the first thing I do -- regardless of what my landlord says. I
keep a lot of my "stuff" in my apartment all the time. It makes for a
headache, but I'm in a pretty good neighborhood and I have a real
nice relationship with my insurance agent (Grin!).

Now if I could just stop spending money on guns and get the safe I
keep telling myself I ought to get.....
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 10mm and CHP
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:10 GMT
Organization: "Well, a head on top, an arm on each side, two legs...."

In <1993Jan26.224243.27871@univel.com> Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Saigon Smuggler) writes:
#Hmmm.  Glock pistols were designed to use drop-in parts.  This means that
#if you need to replace your barrel (or any other part) for instance, you
#don't need to machine that part to fit into your gun properly.  You just
#order the part and drop it in.  In fact, according to Glock, the only tool
#needed for a Glock armorer is pin punch.  If you lose it, a ball point pen,
#handcuff key or paper clip will do just fine.

In fact, I seem to recall a story (possibly apocryphal) that part of the
"standard" Glock sales pitch was for the salesman to bring in several 
pistols, disassemble them into a paper bag, shake vigorously, reassemble
at random, and fire.

-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
From: matth@hpcvccp.cv.hp.com (MH)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ruger political questions
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:40:46 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA


I have read several bits and pieces in this newsgroup in the few weeks
I have been reading it regarding the boycott of Ruger products.

This is what I have gathered so far.

   Bill(?) Ruger sent a letter to Congress(?) recommending the
   banning of weapons with magazine capacities greater than those
   built by Sturm, Ruger Co.

People seem to in general be very unhappy with Ruger over this issue, and
are choosing to not buy his products.  This is certainly understandable,
but I am seriously considering buying a GP-100 and I would like to make 
a more informed buying decision.  Political reasons aside, I like the price,
the quality, and the fact that it is designed and built in America.

My questions are:

   When was this letter written?

   To whom was it sent?

   Can anyone refer me to a magazine or newspaper article regarding
   this alleged letter?  Preferably one that reprints the letter in
   its entirity.  (Specific edition please.)

If you feel your response would be of general interest to the net, please
post it.
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Norinco 1911 vs Springfield
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:51 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA



#In article <ffEA02P732SV01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, efk00@cd.amdahl.com
#(Eddie Kieger) writes...
## 
###
###Someone recently mentioned a shop that sold new Norincos for $339.
###If the prices for Norinco and Springfield are about the same (for
#new
###guns), why choose one over the other?
##        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
## 
##Well, don't take it personal, but I am amazed that this question is 
##asked. Given equivalent quality, I would HOPE that most Americans 
##would buy an American gun. I know that at least I would. One reason 
##why I am not even considering Browning for my new hunting rifle.
## 
#
#However, you have to face up to the fact that we are living in an
#ever-increasing international marketplace.  For example, Springfield
#imports
#the raw forgings for its 1911s from Brazil and then final machines them
#in 
#the U.S.  I would think that the modern Browning designs are engineered
#here 
#in the U.S., but are only manufactured overseas.

yeah, I read that just after my post. Makes it LESS of a big deal for 
Springfield > Norinco, but at least SOME Americans get their paycheck 
from Springfield.

In todays "global" market place, even the little things count.....

Eddie
From: eesnyder@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Eric E. Snyder)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Wanted: .308 varmint bullet suggestions
Date: 23 Jan 93 21:50:28 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

reidld@ecf.toronto.edu writes:

#[...]  Does anyone know of a light .308 bullet that is
#fragile and sleek?  I don't suppose Hornady makes a .308 version of their
#.223 'super explosive' bullet, eh?  (Rumored to work most impressively).

I just loaded a few Nosler 125 gr Ballistic Tip Boat Tails in .308.  With
50.0 gr of W748, these (according to Hornady data) should run at about 
3100 fps.  That sounds like a pretty good varmit load to me.  I haven't 
tried these out yet, so stay tuned for further reports.  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TTGATTGCTAAACACTGGGCGGCGAATCAGGGTTGGGATCTGAACAAAGACGGTCAGATTCAGTTCGTACTGCTG
Eric E. Snyder                            
Department of MCD Biology              ...making feet for childrens' shoes.
University of Colorado, Boulder   
Boulder, Colorado 80309-0347
LeuIleAlaLysHisTrpAlaAlaAsnGlnGlyTrpAspLeuAsnLysAspGlyGlnIleGlnPheValLeuLeu
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From: $$$CBFI@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu (Jack Schudel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why ? (Hand in Pocket)
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:52 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, NERDC

In article <19609@smoke.brl.mil>
gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
 
#
#
#In article <28549@sybase.sybase.com> mtxinu!sybase.sybase.com!thorick@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Thorick Chow) writes:
##WHy is it that many pistol target shooters put their non-shooting
##hand in their pockets ?
#
#It seems like a good place to put it.  TV technicians working around
#high voltage keep one hand tucked into the belt behind their backs..
#
#I think your real question is, why are they shooting one-handed?
 
Bullseye rules require one hand shooting.
The reason for putting the off hand in a pocket is for repeatability.
You want to do everything the same, every time.
Same grip, same sight picture, same body position.
If your off hand moves, it throws off your balance.  (If the TV tech's
hand moves, he probably gets zapped.)
Leaving your hand in your pocket also requires no effort to keep it
from moving, so there is one less thing to worry about.
 
/jack