From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Clean And Unclean Under The New Cove
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:16:01 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO


 TA> From: tom@portland.mdc.unisys.com (Tom Albrecht)
 TA> Date: 28 Jul 92 15:47:13 GMT
 TA> Organization: Unisys - Applied Technology
 TA> Message-ID: <1992Jul28.154713.4244@portland.mdc.unisys.com>
 TA> Newsgroups: alt.messianic
             -=> Quoting Tom Albrecht Bill Carlson <=-
TA> Bill Carlson writes:
 BC>    I have a copy here at work; and it says:
 BC>    (Thus He <-{these two words are in italics} declared all foods
 BC>    clean)  The entire phrase is in ()'s in my NAS, and if you'll
 BC>    note, the word "declared" is also not in the Greek anywhere.
 TA> No, there are no brackets in the NASB, just parenthesis.
      Yup.  That is what I note here in the past post.  But ()'s or
      no; the words: "Thus He" do NOT appear in the Greek, and are
      in Italics.  The word "declared" also does not appear in the
      Greek!  -But is not in italics; as when you add the words to
      the text that aren't there: "Thus He", declared is then
      'understood'.  Considering that "clean" is the same word is
      purge in Greek; and considering that Y'shua had just in context
      talked about waste going into the toilet!  -To add the words
      "Thus He", and understand the word: "declared", and further
      take the then assumed meaning of "clean", is shoddy interpretaion
      AT BEST!   NOPE!  The KJV has it translated CORRECTLY HERE, the
      others do NOT!
 TA> Mark uses the same form of commentary in
 TA> verse 11 when he explain "korban" to the Gentiles.  (If you have a
 TA> "red letter" edition of the NASB, you'll notice that both sets of
 TA> parenthetical statements are not in red.) 
      NO!  The words in verse 11 ARE IN THE GREEK! In verse 19 they are
      NOT!  There is no ()/[]/,/./:/;/?/! in ancient Greek anyway!
> TA> happened to be in a Christian bookstore and consulted a number of
> TA> commentaries on Mark.  None of them hinted at questionable text
BC>   Not surprising; most commentaries today have little value anyway.
 TA> Perhaps you can suggest a more substantive commentary that agree
 TA> with your theory regarding Mark 7:19.
        How about common sense!  ...end of commentary!
>TA> Objectively speaking, is it sin today for a Jewish believer in
>TA> Messiah Jesus to fail to circumcise his male child on the 8th day?
 BC>    I would have him read ACTS 21b; where Ya'akov declares that it
 BC>    was a LIE that Sha'ul would say that the Jewish Believers
 BC>    should not be circumcising their children, and forsaking Torah;
 BC>    and let him draw his own conclusions :-)
TA>So, in other words, they would be in sin, and if he were a member
TA>of your congregation you would be obligated to admonish/
TA>excommunicate him? What are you sneaking around about?  Just tell us
TA>plainly.
       I did, and we have SEVEARAL TIMES!  But you cannot hear.  My
       answer is extreemly clear.
 > TA> Objectively speaking, is it sin today for a Jewish believer in
 > TA> Messiah Jesus to fail to celebrate Yom Kippur?
 BC>    Y'shua IS our Yom Kippur.  Why would a Jewish Believer not want
 BC>    to celebrate this?
TA>...biblically speaking, he can't.  There is no bloody sacrifice,
TA>no Levitical priest, no scapegoat.  It is impossible to celebrate a
TA>biblical Yom Kippur today.  He can follow the rabbinic traditions -
TA>additions to the Scriptures - as you apparently do, but then this
TA>would not be a religious holiday, but a cultural/social one.  What
TA>you celebrate is a human tradition pure and simple.
     NO.  But celebrating the greek-whore-goddess day of easterous/
     ishitar sure is a human tradition!  You've heard all this for
     years, but your ears are full of wax(ed)  - cold.

... 012 Shalom Alechem ---> <--- Alechem Shalom 210    
--  
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