HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron)
Subject: Re: Make money off of credit card?
    <1992Nov5.062401.19479@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> 
    <1992Nov8.081000.12911@u.washington.edu> 
    <1992Nov11.020720.9926@pony.Ingres.COM>
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:36:01 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

reb@Ingres.COM (Phydeaux) writes:

>In article <1992Nov8.081000.12911@u.washington.edu> tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
>>Assuming you want a GM car, what's to stop you from buying a lot of
>>stuff on the GM card, then returning the stuff for a a refund, and using
>>the refund to pay off the credit card bill before interest accrues?  Repeat
>>until you've reached the maximum GM rebate.

>What's to stop you?  The $500/year rebate limit. 

Besides which:  When you return an item you bought with a credit card, 
your refund is supposed to be in the form of a credit card uh, credit.
This lets the merchant get back the 3% he paid Visa/MC/whomever.  In 
which case, GM probably deducts that portion of the rebate.

Some merchants might give you a cash refund, but I think they'd start to 
catch on after a while.
-- 
Kenneth Herron                                              kherron@ms.uky.edu
University of Kentucky                                         +1 606 257 2975
Dept. of Mathematics     "Your ball goes over them, it sails off the edge into
a huge cauldren of fire-breathing dragons."  "And they call this a par three?"
From: ysoh@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Cara Soh)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Indianapolis <==> Vancouver --- $390
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:32:46 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

I have a Northwest roundtrip air ticket, flying from Indianapolis to Vancouver.
Bought it for over $400 and now I'm selling it for $390. It is dated
for December 26, 1992 to January 3, 1993. However, I can requested for
them to be changed and will pay the $50 charge for switching dates.
If you are interested, please let me know as soon as possible.
      
Cara Soh (ysoh@silver)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: tony@disk.uucp (tony)
Subject: Food Lion v. PrimeTime / The Jungle revisited???
Summary: How can the public protect itself from unscrupulous retailers?
Keywords: food, sanitation, punlic, national, practices, right-to-know
Organization: Digital Information Systems of KY
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 12:26:51 GMT

     According to the tv show PrimeTime a foodstore chain called Food Lion is
engaging in unscrupulous food retailing practices.  Allegedly they were seri-
ously violating sanitation standards by doing things like soaking rotting meat
in Chlorox to bleach out the stench, then they were repackaging it for sale at
reduced prices.  If what PrimeTime alleges is true, this situation brings to
mind the Upton Sinclair classic, "The Jungle."
	If food retailers in other food chains also use unsanitary packaging
and do things like mix old rotting chop meat with fresh meat to cut down on
waste... how can the public learn of such practices and avoid shopping at 
stores that do this kind of thing?  I would just like to know because I would
like to be able to avoid shopping at such stores if it is possible to learn
who they are.

	Tony Safina    coplex!disk!tony@uunet!UU!NET

Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: brein@gpvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Barry S. Rein)
Subject: Re: Encyclopedia Britannica
Followup-To: misc.consumers
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:04:57 GMT


Anyone thinking of buying the Encyclopaedia Britannica should call used
bookstores first.  They frequently have recent editions at very good
prices.

******************************************************************************
*                               Barry Rein                                 
 *
*                        brein@dsfvax.jpl.nasa.gov                         
 *
******************************************************************************
*                              No clever comment.                          
 * 
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: reb@Ingres.COM (Phydeaux)
Subject: Charging more for CC purchases (was: The unhappy byproduct of gas...)
Reply-To: reb@Ingres.COM (Phydeaux)
Organization: E 4th St Home For The Overeducated Underemployed - Chicago Div.
Distribution: usa
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:59:24 GMT

In article <n|#@byu.edu> $stephan@sasb (Stephan Fassmann, Software) writes:
>In article <Bx9vxr.7zu@chinet.chi.il.us> koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us (Louis Koziarz) writes:
>
>>the credit rate now instead of cash'.  Now I'm steamed.  I'm gonna talk to 
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I thought it was illegel to charge more for using a credit card then for 
>cash. I think I read this in the local paper but it was some time ago.
>Anyone know for sure?

In the U.S. It *is* illegal to charge more for something if you charge
it ...  that's  why gas stations  offer  a "discount  for cash."  Same
price, they just call it  something  else to get  around the law.  The
fact that they post different prices on the pumps for cash  and credit
is only for your "convenience."
					reb
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Can a Microwave's performance deteriorate with time?
Date: 13 Nov 1992 01:00:20 GMT
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: skybridge.scl.cwru.edu

Others said
# Wonder if anyone has ever done a test? I.E how long to boild 1 quart of
# water or somesuch thing that is a standard amount.  Might be fun to see
# how different units do.

from the NetNews information attic:

>From: albert@uofaee.uucp (Albert Huzinga)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics
Subject: microwave oven (power measurment)
Date: 1 Nov 89 16:11:16 GMT

1KW = 14.4 degree C rise in temp in 1 liter of water in 1 min.
Albert Huizinga


Test away!



--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: srfergu@rufus.erenj.com (Scott Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Airline Consolidators (WAS: Prodigy...)
Keywords: Travel, Consolidators
Organization: Exxon Research & Engineering Co.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:35:09 GMT

In article <aa.721410398@hela.iti.org>, aa@iti.org (Aayush Asthana) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> A phone call to a consolidator/bucket house is more educative as to
|> the true margins that regular travel agencies make:  list prices on
|> Eaasy Sabre are higher than what you can get from travel agents;
|> travel agent prices are higher than those of consolidators.
|> 

How would I go about finding consolidators? Are they in the yellow pages?
I haven't been able to find anything, where do I look?

I'm unfamiliar with them, but it obviously sounds like firms who collect
blocks of tickets on planes for a bulk discount, and then pass the discount
on to consumers. How's their selection of flights? Do they wait till they've
got demand and then book for optimal discount all the time, or is the
discount more related to how many folks happen to want to book that flight?

Thanks very much.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Ferguson                        Exxon Research & Engineering Co.
Project Engineer                      New Jersey
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Always bark at a dog."
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: mpalmer@encore.com (Mike Palmer)
Subject: Re: US to Europe electrical transformers
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:43:36 GMT

julian@baldur.lbl.gov (julian cortella) writes:

>Hi,

>I will be moving to France soon, and I was wondering about the 110 to 220V
>transformer problem.  So here are a couple of questions:

> o Does anybody know of a good cheap source for such transformers, mail
>   order or otherwise? What's a decent price?

> o Are there different types of transformers?  What should I look for?

> o Which appliances and stuff will work in Europe?  I already know that
>   a TV & VCR won't.  Nor will electric clocks keep time properly.  What
>   about a microwave oven?  I assume my cheap coffeemaker and iron will
>   work.  Anything else?

The TV & VCR will work on a transformer fine, but not to play European tapes
or TV shows.  Your US tapes will play fine on the VCR and show fine on the TV.

> o Is there another newsgroup that might be of more help?

Wait till you get to France and visit any large Do-it-Yourself place.  The
price is similar to what you'd pay in the states, but you won't have the
hassel of carrying them over there.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.house
From: kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup)
Subject: Re: Kerby Vacuum Cleaners Information
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:36:33 GMT


I hope by now (I haven't been really following the thread) that someone has
already pointed out that unqualified amperage numbers on motor-run products
don't mean squat by themselves, and almost certainly nothing between competing
manufacturers- I can turn my old Hoover Elite into a 15A unit quite easily
with a few Ohmites, and it will heat the floor (an added bonus now that 
Winter's here) as an added bonus.

	-Kenny

-- 
Kenny Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA
OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142	+1 617 621 7306
kenny@osf.osf.org			OSF has nothing to do with this post.
	  Religion: The longest-running gag ever played on Mankind.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.legal
From: guppy@wixer.cactus.org (Jennifer Mery)
Subject: Re: Need info. about Fair Housing act...
Keywords: limit of number of residents in an apt.
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 09:47:28 GMT

Take a look at your lease. I've had several TAA leases, and they all had
a specified number of days that you could have guests in your apartment.

I can't remeber what the consequences of it are, but the apartments
really like to protect themselves.

jam
-- 
==============================================================================
Jennifer Mery |
Austin, Texas | guppy@wixer.cactus.org
==============================================================================
Xref: sparky misc.consumers:19006 misc.consumers.house:14541
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Kerby Vacuum Cleaners Information
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 22:47:18 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Keywords: We are talking about a Kirby not a Dirt Devel

In article <1992Nov9.221533.8004@opencon.com> giand@opencon.com (Deepak S. Gianchandani) writes:

>	From what I have used (and own), Electorlux, Hoover's, 
>and Regina's there is no comparision in cleaning ability to that of 
>the Kirby.  Longevity of the product is a second, but an important
>issue to me, (especially since I'm paying so much for a Vaccume Cleaner)
>but from what I hear from people on the net. with reference to this
>thread, I'm glad I bought one, which will last over 20 years.  
>Over time, not only does one save the money on the machine but also 
>the carpet maintainance is also reduced and the carpets will last 
>longer (this especially true for a homeowner) .

I purchased a Kirby in 1974, and paid about $Cdn 800.00. The machine worked
well, but I'd never buy another one. 

The Kirby was very powerful, and the companion to the power was noise - you
couldn't hear yourself think when it was running. The only real problem I
had with it was that it eventually began throwing belts, and my wife and I
finally got tired of replacing them (monthly) and flogged the machine.

If I were to buy another, I'd buy it _used_, but I think I'd go for a used
Rainbow first - they are available widely in my area for $Cdn 300-400.

-- 
The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) Waffle XENIX 1.64
Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay)
                      Sssssssh.... Hard disk dying...
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: schep@math.scarolina.edu (Anton Schep)
Subject: Citybank Choice card
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  3 Nov 92 15:08:32 GMT

My wife got in the mail an offer for the Citybank Choice Visacard and I was
wondering whether there was a catch to the offer: no fee, 25 day grace
period, and upto 2% rebate! This seems to make the card more attractive
than e.g. the Discover Card. I know that their interest rates suck, but we
don't care, since we pay off the balance each month. The only suspicious
thing I noticed in the fine print was, that this offer was not valid for
current Citybank cardholders. Does this mean that they plan to change the
terms on me a year from now?
From: lou@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM (Lou Kvitek)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:16:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Nope again (was Re: Yup, Amway's a scam)
Organization: HP Response Center Lab
Newsgroups: misc.consumers

In misc.consumers, abulloch@garnet.berkeley.edu (Anthony Bulloch) writes:

> the company could in practice stamp out such practice if they
> wanted to) with Amway.

That would be impossible to police.  We're talking about 1 Million
distributors in the US.  How does Espial or NuSkin 'stamp it out'?  

> But, no, I don't think you _will_ find anyone in Nu Skin or
> Espial using this kind of dissimulation; more than likely
> the individuals who are in Amway that employ deception of this
> kind wouldn't want to be in Nu Skin or Espial anyway: but if

Why not?  These unscrupulous people merely see what the power of 
building a large MLM business can do.  Why should they care what 
product they are moving?  Seems to me they want to generate their
volume by continually signing up new people (very short sighted).

> they did sign up with either of those companies I think it's
> _very_ unlikely that they would use the same recruitment
> 'methods'. 1) they would be trained differently; 2) what you
> might call the ethos of these companies is very different.

Training is great if the trainee listens and applies it, but we
are all in our own business and are free to ignore any and all 
training if we so choose. 

I don't know what 'ethos' means (philosophy?), but are you suggesting
that Amway would train its people to be deceptive?  Oh-oh Anthony,
I don't think that's what you mean.  Amway's reputation as a corporation
is unimpeachable - 33 years in business with volume over $4 BILLION,
environmental awards from the UN, founders consulted by US Presidents
on business issues, etc, etc.  You don't achieve what Amway has achieved
by having bad business practices (ie, a poor philosophy).

> (Just to be clear: I am _not_ claiming that all Nu Skin or
> Espial distributors are faultless! I'm commenting only on the

Doesn't this disclaimer negate your entire statement?  My point is
just this, that not all distributors in MLMs apply good business
practices - it doesn't matter which MLM they are in!  Espial and
NuSkin included!  The people with these bad practices will not last!  

Lou
From: dburns@cvbnet.prime.com (Dana Burns x4370 5-2)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: phone needles
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:55:21 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Computervision

The kids got to the old needle of my pickering cartridge and I'm
having one heck of a time trying to find a replacement! Please save
the CD discussion for now, I'd like to cheaply listen to the many
old scrathies I have. Does anyone know if they sell phonograph
equipment anymore at all? Does anyone know pickering's number??

-- 
Dana Burns  \\\
             ----===---
            ///
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: giand@opencon.com (Deepak S. Gianchandani)
Subject: Re: Big Brother Radio Shack
Followup-To: misc.consumers
Organization: OpenCon Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 18:24:16 GMT

In article <742@emdgat.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> kklein@emdgat.Dayton.NCR.COM (Ken.Klein@DaytonOH.NCR.COM) writes:
>In article <1992Oct29.042510.11379@itsmail1.hamilton.edu> jmalloy@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Joseph T. Malloy) writes:
>>In article <5160005@hpsad.sad.hp.com> smithj@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Jim Smith) writes:
>>>
>>>I just bounced a wadded-up receipt off of a Radio Shack clerk's chest.
>>>
>>I know how you feel; those dweebs (and know-nothing dweebs at that) can
>>really be irritating.
>>
>>Joe
>>jmalloy@hamilton.edu
>>.
>
>I just use the name and address of the dispatcher at the local police station.
>
>It also works for the times when they "demand" a phone number on a credit
			^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>card transaction.
>
	
	They can no longer do this, IT IS Against the LAW if they do
	it in New Jersey.
	
>I'll bet they wonder where all the junk comes from. :-)
>
>Ken
>


-- 
____________________   .    .   __         .       | Deepak S. Gianchandani
\___________________|) .____.--"--"---._____       | E-mail:giand@opencon.com
     .      ||       /_____/  NCC_1701  __/ .  . . | 
.       .   ||      /--/--._________.----/   .     | To Boldly Go Where
From: egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Doctor ripoff, or just reality?
Date: 11 Nov 1992 14:47:26 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: egreen@east.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 10802@bradley.bradley.edu, guru@camelot.bradley.edu (Jerry Whelan) writes:

[inflated doctors fees]

>	So tell me, is this normal, or is the doctor screwing
>us over?

Yes, and yes...

>	We expect that this stuff will be covered by the health
>insurance company, but we are still a bit enraged at this pricing.

...and this is WHY it is "normal."  Since you personally are not paying
the full bill, you feel a littel miffed at getting ripped off, but
aren't REALLY worried about it because the insurance will pay the bulk
of the fee.  The doctor knows that, which is why he can inflate your
bill with impunity.

All the hype about "revamping the health cares system" in this country
boils down to a simple truth:  when consumers are directly responsible
for paying the cost of their health care, free market competative
forces will bring that cost down.

The LAST thing we need is some kind of socialized national health care
system, either administered or [shudder] paid by the federal
government!

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...

From: lou@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM (Lou Kvitek)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:24:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Nope again (was Re: Yup, Amway's a scam)
Organization: HP Response Center Lab
Newsgroups: misc.consumers

In misc.consumers, dans@danix.UUCP (Dan Simoes) writes:

> The reason most people don't tell you it's 
> Amway is because Amway has developed a bad rep over the years from certain
> overeager 'distributors.'  The actual sales/recruiting methods vary greatly
> from organization to organization.  To anyone looking into Amway, I would
> encourage you to attend one of the information sessions/'functions'.

Very nicely put Dan, and right on the money.  It will take time for the
good business people to overcome the 'bad rep' layed out by the 'overeager'
distributors.

Your advice is very good.  People should check it out firsthand.  Decide
for yourself, don't let other people decide for you by giving you 
negative feedback.

Lou
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: eab@msc.edu (Edward Bertsch)
Subject: FORSALE: '79 Seville, '86 Colt e, '76 Torino
Organization: Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:38:21 GMT


I've got 3 cars that I'd like to sell.  In decreasing value,
they are as follows:

'79 Cadillac Seville
	97,000 Arizona miles on the body (no rust, very clean),
	engine rebuilt 5,000 miles ago.  The interior is also
	very clean, and has all original equipment.  This is
	said to be a collector's car in Cadillac circles, and
	from what friends in the auto business tell me, '78 and
	'79 were excellent years for big American sedans.
	It's got a 5.7 liter 350 cubic inch V8.
	This is a 4 door car with tinted windows, AM/FM
	8 track (!) original equipment, power windows, mirrors,
	antenna, trunk, cruise control, automatic headlights,
	climate control, driver and passenger map lights as
	well as dome light, arm rest for back seat, power
	seats for driver and passenger.  The car is turquoise
	blue, with wire wheels.

'86 Dodge Colt e (made by Mitsubishi)
	Car has approximately 101,000 miles, most of which
	were highway.  The car is in excellent mechanical
	condition and has little rust.  It is a 4 door,
	gets great mileage, and has an AM radio and CB.
	There is minor cosmetic damage to the right front
	and side caused by a recent (non-fatal) collision
	with a deer.  Manual transmission.  Burgundy.

'76 Ford Gran Torino
	Car has approximately 150,000 miles, has quite a
	bit of rust but runs well, and always starts, even
	on the coldest of Minnesota mornings.  It's got a
	big V8 (350 cubic inch) and a brand new battery.
	It's got an AM/FM autoreverse cassette.  This is
	a great winter beater.  Olive green.

For all these vehicles, give me a call at 612/645-0168
or send me e-mail.

Thanks!


--

Edward A. Bertsch (eab@msc.edu)   Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc.
Operations/User Services          1200 Washington Avenue South
(612) 626-1888 work               Minneapolis, Minnesota  55415
(612) 645-0168 voice mail         [DISCLAIMER: MY OPINIONS; NOT MSCI'S]
From: judson@watserv.ucr.edu (Michael Judson)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Make money off of credit card?
Date: 13 Nov 92 02:06:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.170815.2912@unixland.natick.ma.us>  
bill@unixland.natick.ma.us (Bill Heiser) writes:
> tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
> 
> >Assuming you want a GM car, what's to stop you from buying a lot of
> >stuff on the GM card, then returning the stuff for a a refund, and using
> >the refund to pay off the credit card bill before interest accrues?  Repeat
> >until you've reached the maximum GM rebate.
> 
> One would assume that when you get a CREDIT, the amount of your
> potential GM Auto rebate would be reduced.

This is not necessarily so.  I have several credit cards and one of them
gives credits toward "prizes."  I purchased an item, saw that my credits
increased, then I returned the item (it wasn't what I wanted) and the
credits were still there.
--

judson@watserv.ucr.edu
From: fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Nope again (was Re: Yup, Amway's a scam)
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:18:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: fc.BxAyn7.JHw
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Lon Stowell (lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com) wrote:
:    And few 7-11 owners bore the heck out of the newsnet with
:    incessant yammering about whether or not their product is or is
:    not a scam...as if anyone with a life really gave a rat.

Lon, if someone called you a thief and a child molester in a public forum,
wouldn't you be tempted to try to clear your name?  Most of the
"incessant yammering" is started because 1) someone asks an innocent
question, 2) some rabid anti-MLM person jumps in with the pronouncement
that all MLMs are scams and all MLM people are slime, 3) the MLM people
say "Hold on a second here," and 4) it degrades from there.

In the case of this particular discussion (the "Yup, Amway's a scam"
thread), it started with an unprovoked attack.  Most of the "incessant
yammering" STARTS with the non-MLMers, NOT with the MLMers.

Gary