HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: frankli@seq.uncwil.edu (william carter franklin)
Subject: Re: Is Crime a non-issue for Blacks
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:09:32 GMT

Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:

>Aug 12 92 Wall Street Journal: Political Paradox: People With Least To
>Fear From Crime Drive the Crime Issue

>Interesting article that claims that law-and-order is a code-word for
>white fear of blacks, and that blacks themselves even in the worst
>neighborhoods aren't concerned with crime as an issue. Quoting an
>Alan Turner "I hear white people talking about crime as an issue. I don't
>hear black people talking about it. It's almost a non-issue for us".

>"Hasan Carter, 29 and unemployed has been robbed twice in recent years.
>In one case he was beaten so badly that he suffered broken ribs. He
>never reported the incidents.
>What would I say? Mr. Carter aks, since he syas the first time it
>happened, he was attacked by drug dealers whom he had tried to rob
>earlier. The second time he was held up in a bathroom at a concert.
>Mr Carter says he isn't involved in crime now and doesn't carray a

>weapon now, but he insists he isn't afraid to walk the sgtreets of
>his East Wimlminton neighborhood. "It's going to happen to every
>black male, black female", he explains with a shrug".


>Hmmmm. On the face of it, this is a politically correct piece showing
>how whites are just a bunch of racists. On the other hand, are blacks
>really THAT unconcerned about crime???


How does this piece show ANYTHING about whites except that they display
concern about crime? I don't see how it shows racism. Remember, Accrding
to the Atlantic Monthly in 1986 and 1987, blacks picked white victims 
for their violent crimes 51.2 percent of the time.
>arthur_t_hu@portal.com - does not represent my organization, race, or species
From: jthomp@mainz-emh2.army.mil (JEFFREY THOMPSON)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re:  "Acting White"
Date: 14 Aug 1992 01:29:38 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

There is one way to find out Charles. Make a survey of the Black youths in
the near vicinity and several neighboring areas. This so called anti-intellectual thread (ignorance) is predominant among Blacks. It seems we'd rather buck the
system than go with the flow. Communication and the ability to effectively communicate not only among ourselves but with others as well is important. Education
is the media or vehicle for accomplishing this. I guess fear is one reason why
some Blacks develop this anti-intellectual attitude; fear of losing one's 
identity. You won't belong anymore. A typical example is well exhibited in
Michael Jackson's video "Bad" or "I'm Bad" whatever.

I could be very wrong too Charles. Just view this as a brainstorming effort.

Jeff.
From: mcbean@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Tuskegee Experiment on Syphillis
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:01:04 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Aug12.163356.24215@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu>, johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson) writes:
> 
>      McBean, did the documentary reveal the names of the "physicians"  
> involved in this experiment, where they got their medical degrees, where  
> those still alive currently live or work? Also, Tuskegee is a historically  
> black American college. What explanation did the Tuskegee administration  
> give for supporting such barbarism? Why were these black administrators so  
> willing to sell other black people down the river like this? Were they  
> bribed? Intimidated?

The program (from my unreliable memory; I spent most of the documentary in a
red haze of anger) implied that the program was run by the department of health
rather than at the university.  The hospital was used, but again the impression
I got was that it was under the aegis of the public health authorities.

The names of the physicians were shown, giving their then positions in the PH
system during relevant periods.  Some of them certainly still work, being shown
in white coats in offices.  The "sell-out" in this episode was one Nurse Rivers
who liaised between the patients and the public health.

There was an active campaign to prevent the men from getting medical treatment,
and one of the men recounted how Nurse Rivers took him out of a queue for
treatment with arsenic compounds, because he was with the experiment.  I am
looking forward to getting the book _Bad Blood--the Tuskegee
Syphilis Experiment_ by James H. Jones. (thanks to Charles Isbell and Al B.
Wesolowsky who supplied me with the info.  Actually Charles had posted this
title as recommended reading last week, but I hadn't seen this post in this
"backwater of civilisation").  I don't know if Nurse Rivers genuinely thought
she was doing the right thing, or she was so chuffed at her sense of value to
the experiment that she was willing to do anything (the sort of house slave
mentality).  I will try not to vent my spleen in anger until I have read the
book.

It is sometimes easy to judge people in another era (why didn't slaves revolt
more, etc.)without stepping into their skin, but on the face of it, it appears
to be a classic case of a coconut.

McBean.
> 
> Arthur Johnson
> University of Wisconsin-Madison
> Department of Chemistry
> johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: "Acting White"
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:36:41 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <1992Aug5.202811.7142@crd.ge.com> mmrwlm@sn116.uca writes:

# No, I am not.  Personally, I have never heard of BEV.  I just
# interpret English as English.  This is really the first time I have
# ever heard of that term.  I am assuming that what y ou call BEV is
# equivalent to the old southern way of calling lunch "dinner" and
# dinner "supper" .  If I am wrong, please let me know.

There's really a continuum of dialects ranging from "Plantation
Creole" to just a hint of an accent attached to Standard American
English.  And a lot of people are not stuck at one particular point on
that continuum, but can slide in one direction or another as the
situation warrants.

Plantation Creole was presumably spoken by a large percentage of
slaves.  It was fairly similar to modern Jamaican Patois, and can
still be heard among the Gullah people of South Carolina and Georgia,
who until very recently were isolated from the rest of American
society.  If you can get ahold of the Story of English segment on
Black Englishes (it includes Caribbean and West African English as
well as American), there are some very interesting examples.  The
Uncle Remus stories are also considered to represent the dialect
fairly well.

"Black English Vernacular" was the name given the dialect as it
existed in the 60s, mainly in urban areas, although it had clearly
been imported from the rural South.  It was clearly different enough
to warrant being called a dialect, not just on the basis of
pronunciation, but real grammatical differences, like a very different
set of verb tenses.  How much this dialect is holding up today isn't
very clear.  In 1965 there were relatively few poor families with TVs,
and not much on them to keep kids amused in any case.  Now, of course,
even the poorest kids are surrounded by the sounds of Standard English
from birth.

I think what you're probably hearing from black high school kids today
is a distinctive accent, which blacks tend to maintain for group
identity just as New Yorkers, Southerners, the Irish, etc., do, plus a
collection of slang expressions that also reinforce the in-group
feeling.  I don't think it's grammatically distinct enough to be
considered a separate dialect, though.  In fact, the grammatical
differences from "educated" English are basically the same ones used
by  English speakers round the world.

David
From: isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Tuskegee Experiment on Syphillis
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:02:31 GMT
	<1992Aug12.163356.24215@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu>
	<1992Aug12.193746.23027@rti.rti.org>
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
In-reply-to: wgr@rti.rti.org's message of 12 Aug 92 19:37:46 GMT

wgr@rti.rti.org writes:
|johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson) writes:
|[ description of Tuskegee syphilis experiment deleted ]
|>     McBean, did the documentary reveal the names of the "physicians"  
|>involved in this experiment, where they got their medical degrees, where  
|>those still alive currently live or work? Also, Tuskegee is a historically  
|>black American college. What explanation did the Tuskegee administration  
|>give for supporting such barbarism? Why were these black administrators so  
|>willing to sell other black people down the river like this? Were they  
|>bribed? Intimidated?

|Tuskegee is also the name of a town in Alabama.  Nothing in the original
|post indicated that the experiment was associated with the university.
|Maybe the name is just taken from the town where the experiment was done.

It was; however, at least one of the presidents of Tuskegee U was
aware of the experiment, if not all of its details.  Pretty sickening.
Read the book:  _Bad Blood:  The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment_ by
Jones.
--
Peace.
   "There is a difference, the true seditionist would argue, between a
   revolution and a gesture of macho defiance.  Gestures ares cheap. They
   feel good, they blow off some rage.  But revolutions, violent or
   otherwise, are made by people who have learned how to count very
   slowly to 10."
                          -Barbara Ehrenreich
                                   -\--/-
    Don't just adopt opinions     |  \/  |       Some of you are homeboys
          develop them.           |  /\  | but only I am The Homeboy From hell
                                   -/--\-

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: bstring@mainz-emh2.army.mil (BOB STRINGFIELD)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: [william carter franklin:  Re: This FRANKLIN person]
Date: 17 Aug 1992 01:41:07 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

This is the same logic they used to take Africa, rape our women and
rape **our** children!!!!  Exact same.  It is written in the sands
of time.  Stats?  I got one for you.  Seem there have been 4,752
recorded lynching (enforced punishment to you Carter) but that only
carries the party line of what a lynching is.  That definitive stat
can not be correct!  Hell, I have been victim to more then that Carter.
Now you see how they can be used.  Good only to the beholder.  Dried
ink on paper.

Bastard.  Again gross misuse of a term.  Bastard denotes one without
a **heavenly** father or a mindless one.  Heh-heh-Heh....  I do not
think that term fits 'krb104@psuvm.psu.edu..

--bob
<KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>  There has been this William Carter Franklin person postin here for a while
>on the subject of what country is best for Blacks to live in.  I just want
>to warn, and ask everyone who is responding to him to please question his
>dubious statistics.  For instance he stated that 75% of the violent crimes
>comitted in this nation are committed by Blacks.  Well, when I asked for a
>citation on this, he informed me that this was for the DC area, an area which
>is predominately Black to begin with.  He said he got his statistics from the
>Associated Press, what article, what paper, where they got their statistics is
>still a mystery.  Please question his statistics and ask for exact citations.


I knew that some bastard would eventually misqoute me.


I said that the nationwide stats according to the associated press
were around sixty nine percent and that the D.C. total was 75 percent.
Reread please, especially the first posting which you so ignorantly
responded to. Where are your nationwide stats? Mine are correct, yours
are lacking. If you can't prove me wrong, then who cares where I got 
my stats from; you haven't even checked them to see. I think you are
afraid that I am correct and you will find that I am.

You are misleading. The original article, If I can FIND it, will clear
up this misquoting you have done.

My point, too, which you so nicely have outlined, is still valid...
even if D.C has a higher crime rate and more black people, the point is
that AMERICA is THE BEST PLACE FOR BLACK PEOPLE TO LIVE. Post the 
nationwide violent crime stats for 1990 and notice the distribution
among the cities and, then, the longitudonal racial boundaries.
America is very kind and tolerant to her black people. My point is
still undisputedly correct!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: mjcarpen@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J. Carpenter)
Subject: Somali Relief
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 17:37:34 GMT

I re-post the following addresses where donations to help in Somali relief
can be sent (addresses originally contributed by another s.c.a.a. participant):
 
  Donations may be sent to Doctors Without Borders, 30 Rockefeller Plaza,
  Suite 5425, NY, NY 10112 or the American Red Cross, P.O. Box 37243,
  Wash. D.C., 20013.  Note on check "Somali relief."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: trs4742@sigma.tamu.edu (SEBESTA, TIMOTHY RICHARD)
Subject: Violence Prevention in Inner Cities
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 00:45:00 GMT

Does anyone know of some very current programs in the inner city devoted
to prevention of violence. I've been researching this area and most programs I
found in the literature date from mid to late 80s. I appreciate any info you
may have on the subject. You can either e-mail or post here if others are 
interested in topic. Thanks in advance.

Tim Sebesta
From: alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu (Amy Young Leith)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Accent switching [was re: "Acting White"]
Date: 16 Aug 92 20:28:33 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.african.american
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington

In article <1992Aug13.195800.29002@meaddata.com> jeb3@meaddata.com (Jennifer Bing) writes:

>There truly is a lot of switching going on. I'm Black and not only do I switch 
>the way I talk when I'm talking to non-blacks, but also when I'm talking to 
>northeners. I'm from the south.

A comment on this whole discussion of "switching:"  In conversation,
if you want to be "successful" incommunication with the other person,
you do your best to communicate "on their level."  Meaning to speak in
a way easily understood by them, to not use words they are unfamiliar
with (jargon, dialectual words, etc), and not to speak in tones or
inflections that might be "normal" for you but of which you know are
differently taken by them.  It's not all that strange...  You conform
to your audience to some extent for the sake of facilitating the act
of communication. 

amy
From: bstring@mainz-emh2.army.mil (BOB STRINGFIELD)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: [william carter franklin:  Re: Clinton's Disrespect For Jessee Jackson]
Date: 17 Aug 1992 09:11:17 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

and Carter says ' looks like I just informed you.  you need a freshman
level stats course.'

Naye I say.  Then that would make all that took the course as ignorant
as you but that is your purpose and the trick imbued into your
thought processs.  Is not now you deceived us in the beginning?  Yes.
If you tell a person enough times that you are superior then eventually
he will have no recourse except to go along with it.  Especially if
**you** hold the whiphand.  Sigh, and so nothing has changed even though
you would have us believe that it has...

Universal Truth (no stats, just truth):  The more things change the more
they remain the same.

Universal Truth (yupe another one):  Racism is just another label for
**IGNORANCE**.

No numbers to throw around carter for you have shown that you can not
be trusted with those.
--bob
From: mhmulli@eos.ncsu.edu (MARTIN HARPER MULLIS)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: The Republican convention
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:13:50 GMT
Reply-To: mhmulli@eos.ncsu.edu (MARTIN HARPER MULLIS)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: mhmulli@c00431-313mn.eos.ncsu.edu


>Republican primaries because he liked playing a game called "find the Black
>delegate".  I have been playing that game all week, and still haven't won!
>Photographers don't count!  Nor does Alan Keyes, who spoke on Monday, he is
>a senatorial candidate in Maryland, and is not a delegate (and will get
>trounced in the election by Barbara Mikulski).   So, I am still losing.

 To my knowledge there are three black delegates from North Carolina
 Correct me if I'm wrong

>the one Republican who still impresses me, and who I would seriously consider
>voting for in 1996, is Jack Kemp!   He really cares about minorities, and other
>underrepresented peoples in this land, and puts his actions where his mouth is.
>He is one of the few Republicans who is like that.

 I've been hearing many people say good things about Kemp.  The irony is that
 Kemp is a leading Conservative, unlike Bush who is a moderate at best.

 

 On another note, I realize many people believe Buchannon to be racist against
 minorities.  Can someone tell me what he did to deserve this label. The only
 accusations that I have heard held very little weight and appeared as 
 nothing more than political ploys to turn voters away from him.

   Thanks,

      Martin
From: gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Clinton's Disrespect For Jessee Jackson
Date: 19 Aug 92 03:16:23 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <1992Aug18.181516.12100@seq.uncwil.edu> frankli@seq.uncwil.edu (william carter franklin) writes:
>gay@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gay Doucheanus) writes:

Ohhhh owwwww.  The shame the pain the degradation.  You call yourself
an intellectual.  And I thought that you were above this 2 grade
behavior.

I wont bother commenting on the rest of your trash. I don't have the
time or the interest, I'm too busy bashing bigots who might change
elsewhere.

Not to mention that I've just remembered that there isn't a point
to arguing with bigots, especially those who deny their prejudices after
each statement and the infamous flag waving variety.  Of which I'm sure
frankie is both.

These two types are often refuse to allow one iota of truth to
interfere with their ignorance.  They are very content to remain
that way.

For those who continue to argue with him, the guy is cutting and
pasting the same recycled nonsense to rebuke everything you say.
Note that he uses the same responses for a variety of statements
matching them as closely as possible.

You're wasting your time.  He simply pastes BS #???.
From: wayne@tse.uucp (Wayne Hines)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: "Acting White"
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:41:53 GMT
Organization: Toronto Stock Exchange

In article <cbc1.712964422@Sax.CC.MsState.Edu> cbc1@Sax.CC.MsState.Edu (christopher b carey) writes:
>kevinc@sequent.com (Kevin Closson) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Aug4.191120.769@crd.ge.com> mmrwlm@sn116.uca writes:
>
>>> Too many times I had heard, "You talk like a white girl," because I used 
>>  proper grammer ...
>
>>  Did you get hassled because you speak with proper BEV grammar or 
>>  proper SAE grammar?
>
>Well, I guess we think we are clever don't we???
>It seems rather obvious that she was using proper grammar.  NOT BEV.
>Yeah, I know.  Y'all already had a field day with BEV and all that crap, so
>don't bother me with it.  
>
>I doubt she'd have been told she was talking like a white girl if she were
>using BEV.
>
>Use your brain.
>
I've been hassled the same way as well. 

It's one thing to be hassled by the occasional, redneck, white ass.
Hell, I sometimes almost enjoy it. "Damn right I'm a nigga, and I'm 
glad I'm not what you are", is what always comes to mind.

But when some brothas seriously get on my butt because I "sound like 
a white boy", that's just too much. It happened to me the other day.
I mean you've got U.S. blacks who sound different from African 
blacks, who sound different from Nova Scotian blacks, who sound 
different from Jamaican blacks, who sound different from Trinidadian 
blacks. These losers were dogging me because I "lost" my West Indian 
accent (something I never had since I learned to speak, and read 
in Britain).

From now on, "a spade is a spade", and an idiot is an idiot, no more 
patience for bigoted ignorance. Some of us need to learn that it's 
not how you talk, or what accent you use. It's what you think, say, and 
do for your people that counts.
-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
		Wayne Hines 
		wayne@tse.uucp
From: KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Proof that Mr. Franklin is full of s***
Date: 12 Aug 92 11:47:21 GMT
 <1992Jul27.155327.17632@seq.uncwil.edu> <1992Jul28.033304.22174@panix.com>
 <1992Jul29.203414.1738@seq.uncwil.edu> <1992Aug4.163732.9290@tse.uucp>
 <1992Aug6.161000.16141@seq.uncwil.edu>
 <
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Aug7.185220.8374@seq.uncwil.edu>, frankli@seq.uncwil.edu
(william carter franklin) says:
>
>bing@jazz.concert.net (Carter E. Bing) writes:
>
>
>
>
>>       Greetings,
>
>>       This has to be one of the most foolish conversations that I have seen
>> in this newsgroup in quite some time. The best place for African Americans
>> is anyplace where we are "we are judge by the content or our character and
>> not the color of our skin." This has not happen in the US or most western
>> countries.
>
>>       If you need stats just check employment stats, banking stats, police
>> stats, ect. ect ect......
>
>>               Latter,
>>                       Carter
>
>
>America employs TWENTY SEVEN times the amount of black people that
>Canada employs. Most black people in America are middle class, AND
>for those who are not, 33 percent of all government aid to the under-
>priviledged went to black people last year. Crime statistics are worse
>here but whose fault is that? If Luther Washington decides to rob a
>bank to support his crack habit that was his decision as an INDIVIDUAL.
>That is not a racial issue, but a crime issue. (Even though 75 percent
>of the violent crimes in 1990 were committed by black people who only
>make up 12 percent of the population). America has done and will do a
>better job of caring for her black people than ANY OTHER COUNTRY in the
>world. Canada can go take a shit, oops, I mean seat.
>
>
>
     Mr. Franklin has recently (yesterday) stated that he specifically said
Washington DC, when he was citing his 75% of all violent crimes are perpetrated
by Blacks.  Well, as you can see above, Mr. Franklin is full of shit.  He
says above that 75% of violent crime in 1990 were committed by Black people
though we only make up 12% of the population.  If anyone has any kind of brain
he/she would realize that DC is greater than 12% Black, so obvioulsy Mr. Frank-
lin was speaking of the whole country!  Mr. Malcolm Moore and myself have
asked Mr. FRanklin over and over again for a direct citation on this piece of
bogus information, with no response!  This is the kind of person that we must
stay away from!  He obviously is inciting argument for the sake of inciting
argument.  He does not back up his assertions with facts.  As a matter of fact
he misquotes statistics.  Again, I will ask for the whole network to  see,
MR. FRANKLIN, PLEASE GIVE A DIRECT CITATION FOR THE BOGUS STATISTICS THAT YOU
GIVE ABOVE, INCLUDING WHAT AP ARTICLE YOU CLAIM TO HAVE GOTTEN IT FROM!