HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steel@gnu.ai.mit.edu (JLE)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: jews as a race
Date: 10 Jan 93 22:47:58 GMT
Organization: Free Software Foundation
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <4908@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>In article <C0nDs8.DCC@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon) writes:
>>
>>religion.  Most Muslims I know drink, sleep around, rarely go to the
>
>loosely structured society.  Though you have only associated with
>non-religious Muslims, it doesn't mean that all Muslims are like this.

How true, Sister Anisa,
In fact there is a story about the prophet in this regard.
As he was welcoming back people returning from Syria (Bilad Asham),
he asked one:  How are the people of Syria?  
The man responded:  Thieves, alcoholics, womanizers, gossipers, ...etc.
The prophet responded:  Correct.

He asked another man the same question: The man resonded:
They are sweet, humble, help each other and the stranger, religious,
...etc.  The prophet responded:  correct.


The people around him said: Two contradicting answers!!
He responded: because the first hung around the bad ones, and the
second hung around the good ones.
-------
P.S., the above are not the eact words nor in the exact order,
but the meaning of the story is the same.  Brother Hamza, or
Sister Anisa can help.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Re: Deportation of Palestinians
Organization: Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Date:  5 Jan 93 05:13:21 GMT

In <4847@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
[referring to Rabin]

>	What exactly is he willing to GIVE to promote peace, security,
>	and stability to Palestinians?


What have the Palestinians "given" so far in the peace process?
I think that some of the moderate ones have recognized Israel's
right to exist (Wow, what a neat concept...let's 'recognize' the
other side ....usually necessary for a negociation...) and that
is about it.

--
cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Deportation of Palestinians
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:14:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.140319.13468@fuug.fi>, an5115@anon.penet.fi writes:
> In article <1992Dec30.135057.23322@ennews.eas.asu.edu> you write:
> >In article <29851@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy
Henderson) writes:
> >
> ># The affair of the illegal and immoral deportation of Palestinians has
> ># brought some interesting things into focus on this newsgroup.
> >
> >	Given the context in which it took place, only an anti semetic
> >bigot would call it immoral (or, perhaps, someone ignorant of the
> >facts might call it immoral).  However, given the fact that the Israel
> >Supreme court has not overturned it, only an idiot would call it illegal.
> >
> 
> Former supreme court judge Haim Cohen described the deportations as 
> illegal according to Israeli Law and immoral according to Jewsih ethics,
> when he was interviewed on Israel's TV news programme "Mabat"
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
> Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be
anonymized,
> and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.

The BBC (6-1-93, 0300 UTC) reported that the Israeli Justice Minister
stated that the deportations were "probably" illegal under Israeli law
because the deportees were not tried first.

R. Netherlands (7-1-93, 0030 UTC) reports that the Dutch Justice
Minister has cancelled a scheduled visit to Israel in protest of the
deportations.

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: bdm659@huxley.anu.edu.au (Brendan D McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israeli Nazism?
Date: 4 Jan 1993 09:47:28 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.2.12

In article <1993Jan4.032427.26730@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:

>As to the major characteristic of Nazi terror, mass murder of
>civilians with poison gas, it was practiced in the mideast only
>by Arabs against other Arabs (Iraq and Egypt).

Actually it was first used by the British against the Kurds.  There
is a nasty little quote from Winston Churchill (then War Sec) that
he couldn't see any problem with using gas against ignorant
savages, or something like that.

>-Danny Keren.

Brendan.
(bdm@cs.anu.edu.au, not the address in the header)
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: bernard stone
Date: 8 Jan 1993 06:39:09 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

In article 21317@ennews.eas.asu.edu, makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

>In article <1993Jan7.1777.22217@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:

># To: David Makowsky
 
>#  DM> Bernard Stone is perhaps the leading authority in ther world
>#  DM> when it comes to international law and the Middle East.
>#  DM> Among his writngs in the area is "Israel and Plaestine:
>#  DM> Assault on the laws of Nations".
 
># This is quite odd: I did thorough searches in Hollis (Harvard)
># and Melvyl (UCal), and came up with no books on law by Bernard
># Stone. All that appeared were a few books on mice (children's
># books?).
 
># I called the Harvard Law School library for background info on
># Bernard Stone, the eminent international lawyer. They turned up
># nothing. Same results from inquiries to a number of other local
># libraries.
 
># So what gives?

>	I may be wrong about his first name, but his last name is Stone.
>I have read several things by him, but the only one I remember by name
>is called "Israel and Palestine:  Assault on the laws of Nations".  I
>do not remember the year, and I am not sure about the publisher but I
>think the publisher was the John Hopkins University Press.

Israel and Palestine : assault on the law of nations / Julius
Stone

  Baltimore : Johns Hopkins University Press, c1981
  xiii, 223 p. : maps ;24 cm.

  ISBN  0801825350

  SUBJECTS.... United Nations - Israel
               Palestine - International status
               Israel - International status

  AUTHORS..... Stone, Julius, 1907-

He has written more than 40 books and pamphlets on international law,
maybe of them focussed on Israel.  He is undoubtedly the leading
figure amongst the minority of academics in international law who
consider it their duty to present Israel's case at every turn.

I don't know enough law to take on Stone, but it is immediately clear
that the book does not even pretend to be balanced.  It reads like
the summing-up you would get from the defense attorney if Israel
was charged with breaking international law.

However, I do know a little about history and I believe that Stone's
book is loaded with biased and sometimes blatantly false history.
It doesn't help his legal credibility any.

>makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu

Brendan.



Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25270 talk.politics.soviet:10412 soc.culture.greek:12190 soc.culture.europe:11164 soc.history:10691 soc.culture.turkish:14188
From: bill@bcserv.wustl.edu (Eldridge (Bill))
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: POLITICS: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:46:17 GMT
Organization: Washington University in Saint Louis, MO USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bcserv.wustl.edu

backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:

>In article <bill.725744475@castor>, bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge) writes:
>> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>>
>>>>
>>>> How did Britain handle the zionist terrorists circa WWII?
>>>> (it just seemed to be a closer analogy, or at least a little ironic).
>>
>>>You mean those Jewish bastard Christ killers ?   :-)
>>
>> What's the point of throwing in these cute barbs?

>You're the one who wrote "zionist terrorists".

I think that "zionist terrorist" is possibly a good term for
the zionists who were blowing up various British possessions in
order to gain a Jewish homeland in Palestine pre-1948.  You, I
am sure, have other terms for them (perhaps freedom-fighters?)
and you are welcome to use those terms.  Your JBCK's seems 
excessive to me, and amusingly tries to pin me down as a
Christian, in order to label me as a small-minded Christian bigot,
no doubt.  You are an irritating person, I might note.  Worse,
you're not much fun.

>I don't know how old you are and if you remember the Weathermen in the 1960's
>but they were basically "open season" for being hunted down.

Basically?  Hunted down?  How many died?  How many were just apprehended
for terrorism?

-- 
William M. Eldridge			bill@bcserv.wustl.edu
Biochemistry Department Box 8231	(314) 362-3436
Washington Univ. School of Medicine	(314) 362-7183 (fax)
660 S. Euclid, St. Louis, MO 63110
From: ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: bernard stone
Date: 8 Jan 1993 08:44:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan8.041152.21317@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>	I may be wrong about his first name, but his last name is Stone.
>I have read several things by him, but the only one I remember by name
>is called "Israel and Palestine:  Assault on the laws of Nations".  I
>do not remember the year, and I am not sure about the publisher but I
>think the publisher was the John Hopkins University Press.

Your search for the Title: ISRAEL AND PALESTINE ASSAULT
retrieved 1 title.

1.     Stone, Julius, 1907-
       Israel and Palestine : assault on the law of nations / Julius Stone
       Baltimore : Johns Hopkins University Press, c1981

Main Stack   JX4084.I8.S76
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 02:08:34 GMT

In article <1ipu9cINNa0h@life.ai.mit.edu> gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer) writes:

# In article <1993Jan10.011854.21767@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
 
# >	Funny, coming from a person who has falsified my name in the past.
# >I will not enter your debate, but please tell when I posted that.
# >From an article where you did not fake my name.
 
# I have never falsified your name; as you well know.  In fact
# there is still that little issue that we have to settle.

	Well, I do not well know so you are either mistaken or lying.  As
to your only line of defense, missing one letter don't cut it.  As to
settling it, if you will consent to pay the rest of my legal fees I
will be glad to have my lawyer retype the letter he was about to send
out to Rice University.

# But no matter; that is a personal issue and not relevant
# to this forum.  Do you then claim that you are not from
# "Israel?"

	If you mean by "from" was I born there, than no I am not.
However, since I am a Jew my heritage and past is from there.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israeli Nazism?  (Arabs killing Arabs)
Date: 6 Jan 93 14:43:29 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1993Jan6.131315.8532@ifi.uio.no> michaelp@ifi.uio.no (Michael Schalom Preminger) writes:
~
~In article <29920@castle.ed.ac.uk>, jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
~> In article <1993Jan6.014248.10027@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca> wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich) writes:
~> ~In article <C0EAKH.sI@techbook.com> gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane) writes:
~> 
~> ~      Syria's Hafez Assad ordered the massacre of approximately 10,000
~> ~to 20,000 fellow Arabs in the city of Hama in around 1980.  I believe
~> ~this town was an active Moslem Brotherhood area.  They would be quite
~> ~similar in philosophy to the Hamas members that Israel recently
~> ~expelled (note expelled, not butchered like in Syria).
~> 
~> I used to be under the impression that Israel aspires to be a civilised
~> democracy in the "western" sense. Now it is clear that as long as the 
~> Israeli regime is less brutal than that in say, Syria, or Iraq, or other
~> cradles of gentleness, that's ok. Why not try setting your sights just a
~> tiny bit higher?
~> 
~> 
~Mr. Henderson:
~
~Do you require a different standard of humanity from israel than that
~you do from its neighbours?
~
~If the answer is "YES": could you elaborate a little bit on it?

My posting refers to the contrast between Israel's behaviour and its
assumed aspirations, but to answer your question:

I require the same standard of humanity from every country. Too bad no-body
consults me before deciding what to do ;-(

~Thanks

You're welcome.





-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          

This message cost the net hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
Bloody good value if you ask me.
From: cpr@igc.apc.org (Center for Policy Research)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israel and Mideast
Date: 5 Jan 93 09:30:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1hu7i6INN92i@agate.berkeley.edu:-110281303:cdp:1483500317:000:2271
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cpr    Jan  5 01:30:00 1993


Dear folks,

I was brought up in Jerusalem in a Jewish home. It was in 1946. In the
end of 1947 my neighbors, fearing the clashes, went away with the aim of
returning when the war was over. They were not allowed to return when
the armistice came.Why ? because they were Christian.

This fate awaited hundreds of thousands of others who were subject
to what is today called "ethnical cleansing" and is practiced in 
amost barbarous way in ex-Yugoslavia. These refugeees, from Jerusalem,
Jaffa, Haifa and hundreds of small villages all over Palestine, were
not allowed to return. Their houses, land, workshops, orchards, machines,
were confiscated by the Jewish state and handed over to Jews. Jewish
artists now enjoy the luxury of such confiscated Arab houses in Ein-Hod
and in Jaffa, where they set-up spacious studios. Meanwhile the erstewhile
owners of these houses are prevented of enjoying their assets.

Is this the Israel you admire ?
What are you doing to repair this blatant injustice ?
I surely don't want Jews to be expelled from Israel and be replaced by
Palestinian refugees. But, given a choice, I think the Palestinian
refugees are more entitled to appartments in Israel than Soviet Jews,
for the simple reason that they have an inherent right - enshrined in
numerous human rights conventions and the Human Rights Charter - to
return to their homes. The right of Soviet Jews to immigrate to Israel
is not an inherent human right. The concept of "return" of Jews to 
their homeland after 2000 years, lacks  any legal or scientific base.
No person can prove that his ancestors came from Palestine 2000 
years ago.The concept "return" is a Zionist political construction,
built on Jewish messianism. The Palestinian claim to return is nothing
mythical. Many posses even pictures of their homes and many homes are still
existing. Their right to return is moreover supported by all
members of the United Nations (excluding Israel, including the United 
States, Israel most reliable ally.

If you wish to obtain a list of all villages destoryed by Israel after
1948 with the aim to prevent the return of Palestinian refugees,
please contact me.

Best regards,
Elias Davidsson
Center for Policy Research, ICELAND

email: elias@ismennet.is
Corr.   elias@ismennt.is
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Fatah Hires Israeli ex-con to Kill Israeli Public Figures
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:19:27 GMT


From Yesterday's Israel Line:

---------------------------------------------------------------
Investigation Completed of Israeli Drug Dealer Who was Drafted by
the Fatah Terrorist Organization

KOL YISRAEL reports that the investigation of Refael Avraham,
suspected of receiving money from the Fatah terrorist organization
for planning and carrying out terrorist attacks in Israel, has been
completed. Avraham, a resident of Rishon Letzion, admitted that he
was drafted by the Fatah, met with senior officials from that
organization, and received money to plan and carry attacks on
prominent public figures in Israel. He claimed that he never
intended to carry out his missions. A previous KOL YISRAEL report
stated that Avraham was known to be a drug dealer in Rishon
Letzion.
---------------------------------------------------------------


-Danny Keren.
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Chechens
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:45:40 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1993Jan5.010651.19004@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:


> 	Mark, you lack the most simple knowledge
> 	of Chechen politics, and act as you know everything.

> 

Excuse me Misha, but I know probably more about the history
the Caucasus than most people who post here but I don't
intend to carry on because I have too many other things to
do.

> 	On the question of minorities starting their own mafias:
> 	do you know what was the main point of Dudaev's
> 	election program? That every male Chechen of grown
> 	age will have his own firearms, subsided by goverment.
> 	At least a gun. Indeed, now each male Chechen
> 	(starting from 15-18) has a gun, and about each
> 	big family - its own grenade- or flame-thrower.
> 	Since Chechens always shoot when are being married,
> 	they are shooting  each 15-30 minutes in Groznyi
> 	main square etc. Many people do not go outside
> 	without mashine gun. There are no laws at all
> 	which restrict shooting, owing or carrying a weapon,
> 	regardless of type.

Not only that they have even sent groups of armed people
into the neighboring Caucasian republics like Kabardino-Balkaria
and Karachai-Cherkessia not to mention Abkhasia in Georgia.
Most (many ?) might be thinking that time for armed resistance
has come to gain independence. They know the can't win a
war. I don't think they intend it in that way. It's just
a part of their history to fight invaders with all they
got. ONe might say they have a collective Masada complex.

Whether they get their independence depends on the Russian
government's beneficence. Maybe the Chechens intend to
appeal to mass Russian consciences by getting almost
decimated once again.

And other peoples (other than CAucasians) are known to celebrate
various occasians with gunfire.


> 	And please, your incompetent PC attitude
> 	is very nauseating. 

I'm one of the persons that has fought on this net against
fashionable PC attitudes. There exist however general
principles that we'd like to adhere to for creating
peaceful coexistence among nations/peoples of the world.

> 	Russian, yes: a huge majority, at least.
> 	Chechens, no. Dudaev's rating currently is
> 	very low - much less than 50% of supporters,
> 	by all accounts. Chechens currently don't want
> 	to secede (while Dudaev still does). He will
> 	lose his power soon, many observers say.

It's possible. There has been a blockade of food and
other goods for a long time and it's certainly being
felt.
-- 

	mark	

   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey    
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: ggoebel@sun1.ruf.uni-freiburg.de (Garrett Goebel)
Subject: Visas
Organization: Rechenzentrum der Universitaet Freiburg, Deutschland
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 19:28:06 GMT

Hello, I am an American exchange student in Freiburg, Germany.  I would
like to spend most or all of my two month break between semesters in
Moscow, Russia to improve my language skills.  I have begun the visa
process, but have been notified that I need an "invitation".  Does 
anyone have any information ono how I could quickly obtain one (break 
starts Feb. 13), or would anyone be willing to extend one.

Last, does anyone know of email addresses to either the Russian or 
American embassies?

-- 
Garrett Goebel,8811500 <ggoebel@sun1.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: tammet@cs.chalmers.se (Tanel Tammet)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Bilingualism - a good cause!
Date: 12 Jan 93 09:38:44 GMT
Organization: Dept. of CS, Chalmers, Sweden

In article <1993Jan11.070946.19665@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>Henry Mednikoff (henry@bms.com) wrote:
>
>: For a single russian individual living in the Baltic States Your ethnic
> statistics  is meaningless . This person does not care wether karelian
> culture and language are not up to european standards,or wether there are
> over 100mln. russians in Europe and he is majority in Europe..Big deal ! 
>: He was born in Latvia, his home & job was always there, but You want to
> displace him because he is not of your breed, you feel he does not belong
> there, he is just statistics for you.The main purpose of all changes
> in the Baltic states  is to kick ethnic russians out.

>Of course you are correct from that point.

Not exactly. It is definitely not the case that the main purpose of
all changes is to kick the Russian residents out. It is not on the agenda
at all - in contrary, the main question is how to integrate Russian residents
willing to stay into the non-Russian community of the country.   

>One weakness is of course that we have not real Balticrussians on the net,
>even Estonia's estonians are absent.

No. I am an Estonia's estonian, though I am currently living and
working in Sweden:  I have been staying in Sweden for less than a year,
and I am visiting Estonia every few months.

Regards,
	Tanel Tammet
From: LODEESENJ@adminb.rferl.org (Username was LODEESEN)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Chechens
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:03:56 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

Why all the heat on countries' claiming as their citizens or members of their
nation, people whose ancestry links them to some other groups?  It is really
when large countries start excluding people who have nowhere else to go that
there is a huge problem.  Canada is proud of Wayne Gretzky, and so are the
people of Los Angeles, with fewer than .1% of whom he shares any kind of
genetic identity.  Canada loves hockey and produced the world's greatest
hockey player and not out of the genetic weave of either of the two largest
ethnic components of the nation.  Nureyev's ancestry was pretty generally
known.  There is no shock value in an oft repeated revelation.  Tatars who
like ballet should be terribly proud.  So many Russians love ballet that they
were understandably delighted with him before he left, had mixed emotions
about his desparture, and can now mourn the passing of one of the greatest
exponents of an art form which was brought to a particularly high peak in the
country in which he danced and which he left.  I am no ballet fan.  I am
rather happy that he chose to come to my country and understanding that he
did so because we don't require any kind of transfer of loyalty (or blood
transfusions for that matter) in order to gain acceptance here.  America has
produced very few ballet greats.  Who knows the nationality of Maria
Tallchief?  If that knowledge adds to her mystique, fine.  If not, isn't it
interesting how differently Americans tend to dance?  Who remembers Charles
Aznavour?  Those were distincly French songs he sang.  I'll bet a lot of
Armenians are proud of his success.