HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tscwhitehead@cc.weber.edu (Clarke Whitehead)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Fun ways to get rid of fundies...
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:21:00 GMT
Organization: Weber State University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Dec30.035249.23858@newsroom.utas.edu.au>, Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au (Tim O'Neill) writes...
>In article <1hqoqaINNdk0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bb099@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Adam Trent Phillips) writes:
>> 
>> 
>> 	A good one is that if you see them coming to your house,
>> take a copy of ICE-T's "Body Count" and put in your stereo, cranking it
>> on the song "Cop Killer".
> 
>Very true Kent, though I think that 'KKK Bitch' would do just as well. I live
>next door to the Full Gospel Church and when I'm felling silly on Sunday
>mornings I put on Ministry's 'Psalm 69' and sit on my balcony with a
>malevolent grin on my face. They probably can't make out the lyrics
>( I can't either), but it sounds diabolical enough to make the worshippers
>walk a little faster as they pass my house.
> 
>Tim O'Neill
>Tasmanian Devil
>'You wanna ban the AK? I got ten of em stashed and a case of hand-grenades!'
>Bodycount

Jeez',  have you guys considered a more civil and direct approach like
telling them you're not interested?!  Why do you need to resort to violent
talk or music?

Clarke
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)
Subject: Re: Did Muslims Ever Forcibly Convert Others to Their Religion?
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:11:22 GMT

In <1992Dec14.214953.24852@adobe.com> mmwang@adobe.com (Michael Wang) writes:

>In article <renfield.724177368@camelot> renfield@camelot.bradley.edu (Dennis Depalma) writes:
>>In <1992Dec12.053123.26553@nmsu.edu> epowers@dante.nmsu.edu (POWERS) writes:
>>>David Choweller (David.Choweller@launchpad.unc.edu) wrote:
>>>	As far as I know, the beginning of Islam was one of forced
>>>conversions, when Mohammed gave the Meccans a choice of Islam or the
>>>sword.  But you'll have to look that one up, since I have no reference.
>>
>>Ehh!! Wrong answer.  According to my Middle Eastern history professor last
>>year, one of the basic tenets of the Muslim faith (created by Mohammad to
>>prevent conflict with some of the other sects also in existence at the
>>time) "people of the book" (Christians and Jews) were not to be molested,
>>and other people weren't forcibly converted.  He just set things up so that
>>anybody who wasn't a Muslim suffered financially because of it.:wq

>You can say the same thing about Muslims since the Koran dictates a
>2.5% "poor tax" to be paid by all Muslims who own any sort of wealth.
>This money is then redistributed to those who need it most.

>Muhammad made very clear that Muslims were to be tolerant of other
>religions, "Will you then force men to believe when belief can only
>come from God?" 

That quote is from Surah 10, verse 99 of the Qur'an (if memory serves me
correctly).

Another relevant verse is,

"Let there be no compulsion in religion, truth stands out clear from
error..." -- Surah 2, verse 256 of the Qur'an --

...explicitly *prohibiting* any sort of forced conversion.

>I'm not qualified to say how well Muslims have upheld
>this ideal, but notice that we don't have Muslims posting to a.a.
>trying to convert us to Islam.

I personally do not make postings trying to convert people to Islam.
Any of my postings about Islam on alt.atheism are to try to clear up 
misconceptions of it.

 Fred Rice 
 darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au   

==================================================================
=   A poor man said to a rich one:				 =
=     `All my money goes on food.'				 = 
=     `Now that's your trouble,' said the rich man. `I only 	 =
=   spend five per cent of _my_ money on food.'			 = 
=                                        			 =
=                -- Idries Shah, _The Magic Monastery_		 =
==================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: zitsky+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mark Ryan Miller)
Subject: Re: Ok, truce?
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:35:12 GMT

|> >This newsnet is not a decent forum for serious discussions.  They are too 
|> >often interrupted by flames and sarcastic answers.  While these have their 
|> >place and are often called for, they are annoying to anyone trying to make a 
|> >serious point.  For example, someone says something, but doesn't say it 
|> >clearly.  Instead of getting a chance to restate what they were trying to 
|> >say, which was possibly very valid or interesting or thought-provoking or 
|> >whatever, they are flamed to death.  Out of embarassment, the flamee doesn't 
|> >bother to try again, and their insight is lost.
|> >

Well, I've only been in this group for a few weeks.  I thought it might be a source of information and support for atheists who need information about atheist
organizations, etc.  But unfortunately, it seems to be full of flames.  That's the problem of both the Christians and atheists who flame back instead of JUST IGNORING these people.  (Do atheists have incredibly thin skins?)  I thought we were atheists because we didn't see the need to prove ourselves?  This newsgroup could be much more beneficial for "young" atheists, and could help as a support group for people just struggling to overcome Xianity.


|> >
|> >I don't approve of homosexuality.  However, I don't hate gays.  One of my 
|> >best friends is a bisexual.  ( I don't have many friends who are gay, not 
|> >because I am avoiding them, but because I just haven't met many.)
|> >
|> My best friend is a lesbian, which annoys me no end, since i find her much 
|> too attractive for that.


Well, she's probably too attractive to waste her time around men.  

So... What do people think?  Would you rather have people unsubscribing to the newsgroup, because of the constant flames, or would we like to see this more for the benefit of the atheists and less for the benefit of the Christians.
Maybe I should pay more attention to the atheist.moderated group???

--Mark


QUOTE OF THE DAY: "If you keep looking at the sidewalk, you can't reach for the stars."
From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: iq<->religion: connection?
Date: 29 Dec 92 18:27:32 GMT
Distribution: world,public
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Dec29.140219.11488@prime.mdata.fi> iikkap@mits.mdata.fi (Iikka Paavolainen) writes:
>
>If you don't like the whole idea of the discussion, why not say so? Are you
>a Christian who is offended? Do you think I would get angry or lose my temper
>because of this discussion? What would it benefit me if I went about flaming
>people? I don't think you'll get anywhere by flaming me, either, as it won't
>change the topic.
>

  I rather like the discussion, actually.  It doesn't matter a r.r.a
  to me whether atheists, christians, or astigmatic bisexual pygmies
  score better on IQ tests than I do.  What I'm offended by is
  someone who blazes into our newsgroup making a rash of potentially
  true statements, but then shows less regard for the scientific
  method than does a high school sophomore dissecting his first
  frog.

  Not to mention that you're the second self proclaimed holder of a
  high IQ who offended posters at a record pace, while generating
  endless replies and degrading the SNR to near unity.  I wonder: Is
  high IQ correlated with poor socialization skills?

  Please don't change the topic on my account.  I'll be killing it
  soon anyway unless you can, as repeatedly requested by Steve, back
  up some of your claims with impartial empiricism.  

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 

Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM 

"Look, I tried the cat experiment.  On the third trial, the cat was
dead.  On each of the subsequent 413 trials, it remained dead.  Am I
doing something wrong?"
			James Nicoll

Q.  How many Heisenbergs does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A.  If you know the number, you don't know where the light bulb is!

Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe)
Subject: Re: iq<->religion: connection?
Organization: New Mexico State University
Distribution: world,public
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 19:46:27 GMT

In article <2934646808.0.p00168@psilink.com> p00168@psilink.com (James F. Tims) writes:
>> Iikka Paavolainen <iikkap@mits.mdata.fi>
>>
>>I didn't want to include any quotes, because your statements had degenerated
>>into pointless babblings. Insulting is an easy way to show weakness, and you
>>showed it well.
>>
>>So I just got more supporting info from your post:
>>
>>1) You do agree that you used your intelligence in attacking the original ideas
>>
>>2) Apply this kind of cynicism to the Bible and Christianity
>>
>>3) Denial of the the statements in the Bible is due to intelligence.
>>
>>No use denying any of this, as you supported these notions well along the
>>thread. Basically, the original post was an easy lure, to see how cynicism
>>works among the atheists in this group, and the denial of the Bible became
>>strong. Or are you saying that your cynicism was out of stupidity?
>>
>>Being heavy on psychology, I like to see how people's minds work. Thanks for
>>the posts.
>>
>>--
>> __/|_  ,  ,--------------------------------------------------------------,
>>/o    \/:--| Iikka Paavolainen / iikkap@mits.mdata.fi, in Espoo, Finland  |
>>\__~__/\:--| "I won't have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."    |
>>   `    `  `--------------------------------------------------------------'
>
>Here is a brief summary of some studies, which I am sure will interest
>no one on this thread.  For every study there is the counterargument
>that it proves nothing. 

[Long list of studies deleted]

Now *that's* more like it.  You could learn from this guy, Iikka--he
actually went out and found something to substantiate this position.
Also, he takes due note of the fact that counterarguments exist to
these studies.

Why couldn't you go do this, Iikka?  Why did you need to flame and
insult instead?

SD
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org (Mike A. McAngus)
Subject: Re: iq<->religion: connection?
Organization: Homebrew Virtual Reality Labs
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:45:44 GMT

Iikka Paavolainen (iikkap@mits.mdata.fi) wrote:
: In article <2934646808.0.p00168@psilink.com> p00168@psilink.com (James F. Tim
s) writes:
: >Here is a brief summary of some studies, which I am sure will interest
: >no one on this thread.  For every study there is the counterargument
: >that it proves nothing.
:
: [studies deleted]
:
: Thank you *very* much, the posting was very resourceful.
: Nice to see people who bother to post info they have.

Ditto.
-- 
Mike McAngus 			 | As if I needed Another time consuming hobby.
(mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org)		 | 
The Truth is still the Truth	 | This Post exploits illiterates.
Even if you choose to ignore it. |
From: jmunch@hertz.elee.calpoly.edu (John Munch)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: A little food for thought (pizza?)
Date: 31 Dec 92 12:16:57 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo


  Oh wow, I can't seem to get off this durn computer. I posted about ten
articles tonight, its after three in the morning, and I'm still doing it.
  Ok, here goes with this one. I think that the meaning of life is life
itself. Q: LIFE = ?     A: LIFE = LIFE
  Life has no meaning outside of itself. Trying to insert some other meaning
into the equation is fool's play.
  When the wolf wakes up at the beginning of his day, does he ask himself,
"What is the meaning of my life?" Does he say that he needs to know the
reason he is alive, before he can go and kill a rabbit for his dinner?
No, he merely goes and lives his life. 
  Knowing that my life has no meaning does not depress me or put me in
misery. I'm actually quite happy to be alive, and I enjoy living. 
  As for the author saying that science has lead to confusion and division,
i.e. the cold war; We have always had wars, and most of them have been
religious wars. I think that during the cold war era, the world became 
more aware in general of just what the heck was going on.
  I find it interesting to note that while I was in the U.S. Army during
the cold war, an orchestrated attempt was made to instill me with the belief
that the meaning of my life was to fight and die for my country. Perhaps
the author is trying to instill us with the belief that the meaning of
our life is to serve god. I think both of these beliefs are false beliefs.

                      -John David Munch

P.S. If this post is incoherent, its because I'm too tired to check it.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.sex.wizards,soc.men,misc.kids
From: house@helios.usq.EDU.AU (ron house)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Organization: University of Southern Queensland
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:45:35 GMT

mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin) writes:

>Why don't you stop harping about the unfairness of life and settle down
>to enjoy yourself with what you have?  Griping about not having a foreskin 
>is about as stupid as a woman complaining that her genetic heritage didn't 
>give her bigger breasts.  You can't do anything about it, so you might as 
>well not worry.

But a woman might well complain if some mindless parent had cut one of
her breasts off.  The point is not what we are born with, but whether we
have been deliberately mutilated - THAT is something everyone would have
a perfect right to feel aggrieved about.

--

Ron House.                 USQ
(house@helios.usq.edu.au)  Toowoomba, Australia.
From: christen@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Carl Christensen)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Violence in other religious texts?
Date: 4 Jan 93 00:48:58 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Clarke Whitehead (tscwhitehead@vx9000.weber.edu) wrote:
: The quotes of violence in the Bible were very interesting.  Can anyone tell
: me of other religious works such as the Qur'an or Bhagavad Gita (spelling?)
: have similar types of violent language?  I know the Book of Mormon does.

I know of some violence in the Bhagavad Gita, at least what I consider
violence.  The warrior, Arjuna, on the eve of battle has a change of 
heart as he feels bad about battling former friends as well as his own
relatives such as his grandfatther.

But along comes Krishna (God) who says it's OK to kill everyone, as we are
all born again (through reincarnation) and should not mourn this body's 
passing into its next state.  

To me, Arjuna's doubts seem very "human" and considerate and Krishna's seem
pretty bad.  I do not see how killing and violence is bad in this context as one
could justify it by  saying that their victim is going to be reborn into
another life form anyhow.  However, animal slaughter is bad according to the
Gita which is OK by me (I'm a vegetarian).  It stills seems odd that 
killing man is OK but not animals.

For specific references in the Bhagavad Gita look to the end of Chapter 1 and
the beginning of Chapter 2 where Arjuna has his doubts and Krishna counsels him.  
The version of the Gita I use is called 'Bhagavad-Gita As It Is' and is put out
by the Hare Krishna's.  I assume other versions translate similarly.
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: The Bible As A Rorschach
Date: 31 Dec 92 01:23:16 GMT
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com

In article <1992Dec31.020043.25959@arden.linet.org>, joeb@arden.linet.org (Joe Beiter) writes:
>
>> This is certainly a claim which is worth considering.  I'll sooner
>> believe that it was all a lie than that what the Gospels say about
>> Jesus of Nazareth is anything other than a lie.
> 
> A lie of that extent would have been uncovered and squashed during that 
> time and would not have lived.

A lie of *what* extent?   A lie that said Jerusalem was in China would have
been squashed.   But a lie that said an unknown man in a distant province
had risen from the dead?

What does "uncovered and squashed" mean anyway?   Does it mean some 
people would have refused to believe it?   Well, many people did and
still do refuse to believe it.

Now what?


> How long does a lie like that live  now-a-days?     (ie: Nixon/Watergate, 
> Regan/contras, Quayle/intelligence, Swaggart/lust etc..)

Are you serious?   There are still people who believe Nixon did nothing
wrong.   There are still people who think Quayle isn't a complete idiot.
There are still people who believe Swaggart's version.

Come to think of it, there are still people who believe that the Earth
was created in seven days about six thousand years ago.

jon.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
From: muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: world,public
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 20:17:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.112032.1498@walter.cray.com> jwest@wisc (Jeff West) writes:
>brian@lpl.arizona.edu (Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615) writes:
>: 
>: Jeff West (jwest@wisc) writes:
>: 
>: :  I just love these kind of rationalizations.  NOT!  Your a real piece
>
>	< see previous post for all of my comments here>
>
>: :  Jeff "you really hit my hot button" West
>: 
>: It grieves me to hear this kind of discussion.  God gets accused of
>: things that are really not his to begin with.  Both Christians and
>: non-Christians alike attribute the pain and suffering in the world
>: to God.   This is not true.
>
>Hey it was one of your own that sparked my post.  I know that there are many
>different opions on Christianity.  But read his post again.  He clearly
>states that it's your god that *gives* us these things as *gifts*.  You say
>he doesn't.  Maybe you two should talk.

God is, right now, in the process of perfecting everyone who would dare to
accept His grace.  He allows trials in the lives of His children to refine
them and make them more and more able to love as He loves.  I agree that God
doesn't do bad things to us - He allows them to happen.  Satan thinks he is
getting a pretty good deal when he gets to mess with the life of a believer
(like Job), but in the end good comes of it for those who love the Lord.

>As for the rest of you post I only have 2 comments.
>
>	1.)  Why did your god "deliever into the hands of Satan" such a
>	     righteous man as Job?  Why did your god need to torture a
>	     true believer?  Wasn't his obedience and faithfulness enough?
>	     Or is it just your gods form of entertainment?
>		"Man I just can't shake this guy!  He REALLY REALLY believes
>	         in and serves me.  Hey I know, let's test him!"

Read Job.  He was better off for these occurences and closer to God as a
result of them.

>	2.)  Your one of those that believes that the earth is ~5000 years
>	     old aren't you.

Young earthers should really read Hugh Ross' "The Fingerprint of God".
Keep in mind Romans 1:20.

>clink, screeeeeeep, clink
>
>The above sound you just read is my unlocking the atheist cage.  I'm going
>to go put on my flame retardent suit now, cause it's gonna get REAL hot here
>before you post has seen its end. 8-)
>
>

John M.
From: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Ok, truce?
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:02:13 GMT
Organization: Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things

darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes: >
910773f@axe.acadiau.ca (HEATHER LEE FYFFE) writes: >>
>
>>I believe in that truth-type #1 somebody described.  I will not forcibly 
>>state that the truth as I believe it is undoubtedly that Truth.  However, 
>>that does not change the fact that there _can_ only be one Truth, by its 
>>very nature, whatever it is.  If the Truth is that there are many little 
>>truths, then that is still the Truth.
>
>One viewpoint is the "perennial philosophy", i.e. that there is one
>primordial Truth which every religion contains.  The deeper one
>understands each religion, the more one sees the similarities in the
>essences of each religion.

Joseph Campbell also discusses this in his works (I'm reading
the one about Myth that came from the PBS discussions with
Bill Moyers).  Campbell had a Jungian view of religion that I
agree with; that the search for the Godhead is really a search
for one's inner spirit, and that most creation stories are
parables of this becoming self-aware.  Campbell shows numerous
instances of commanality among religions and its creation
stories.  Really fascinating.

-- 
Maddi Hausmann                madhaus@netcom.com
Humorist, Satirist, Tech Writer.  Take your pick.

Centigram Communications Corp, San Jose California  408/428-3553
From: deborah_w2@verifone.com
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: Any job Opportunities?
Date: 29 Dec 92 10:46:15 -1000
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI

I was wondering if anyone had advice for new gradutes looking for positions. 
The man I've been dating and hi roommate are graduating with Master's in
architecture in March from Georgia Tech.  Actually the roommate is available
now.  I've been watching the classifieds and it seems to be a very tight
market.  I have seen much of the work of the roomate (Robert Fountain) but my
friends portfolio and his thesis project are impressive.  Both men are  in
their thirties and have some practical experience.   Are there any really hot
areas of the country to look for positions?
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: sociology of arch. in early america
From: tbeaudoin@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: 31 Dec 92 12:32:24 CST
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City
NNTP-Posting-Host: vax1.umkc.edu

	Can anyone direct me to some sociological studies of early American 
architecture (revolutionary period to late 19th century)? I would 
be much obliged.  I am a high school college-prep history teacher, and 
my students would love to get their hands on these kinds of studies.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give. Please respond directly
via e-mail. thanks!

Thomas Beaudoin

TBEAUDOIN@VAX1.UMKC.EDU 
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: Todd Sandrock <@bnr.ca>
Subject: Re: job posting
X-Xxdate: Wed, 23 Dec 92 09:11:05 GMT
Organization: Northern Telecom
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d13
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:07:17 GMT

Subject: job posting
From: Michael Stephen Zajac, mzajac@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 06:33:11 GMT
In article <BzLJJC.9AF@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Michael Stephen Zajac,
mzajac@ccu.umanitoba.ca writes:
>I am posting this for a friend.  Please direct enquiries to the Faculty
of
>Architecture:  (204) 474-9558, fax:  (204) 275-7198, or to the address
below
>---------------
> 
>Applications are invited for a tenure track appointment at the Assistant 
>Professor rank for the Departments of Architecture and City Planning.  


ooh Mike, can it be me? no? I guess I'm not sufficiently corrupt for the
U of M...
Arch. Professors here (5 are allegedly involved) at Carleton U getting
themselves in hot water for "Sexism, racism, verbal abuse, and unwanted
touching." Sharla, my wife, says, "The system of architectural education
has to change!"

I say, "The system of architectural education is a perfect preparation
for the architectural industry."

By the way, aren't you a bit old to be in school?

Yours in cynicism,

Todd Sandrock M.Arch.(U Manitoba, '90)
Northern Telecom Limited
Ottawa, Ontario
(613)763.8808

p.s. it rained here yesterday. how 'bout where you live? ;-)