From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: How to choose a Bible Translation
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<fWVXUcK@quack.sac.ca.us> <1992Dec22.072246.17200@engage.pko.dec.com>
Date: 23 Dec 1992 01:02:20 UTC

In article <1992Dec22.072246.17200@engage.pko.dec.com> 
pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius) writes:
>I have cited my source.  Now it is your turn to do so. 

In support of what assertions? I think we are pretty much in agreement.

>So it is not a surprise
>that the Isaiah in the Septuagint is not that different from the Isaiah
>in the Masoretic text.  The difference is that the Septuagint was based
>on a much earlier version of the same text tradition, but with a poor
>job in the translation effort.  The text base of the Septuagint is
>certainly older than the Qumran manuscripts.  As far as Isaiah is
>concerned, all three (Sepuagint, Masorah, Qumran manuscripts) are
>based on the same text tradition, but with different vintages
>(Septuagint's text base being the oldest).  So the Septuagint is
>really a foggy window (due to the poor quality of translation) into
>the precious treasure of a very ancient text which is older than
>the Masorah and the Qumran manuscripts.

Agreed. The significance here comes when you consider that Isaiah is the
main text used by Christianity as a prophecy of the coming of Jesus
Christ. For example, what do you think is the source of the use of
virgin as referenced in the NT? This virgin, supposedly prophesied in
Isaiah but not actually in any Hebrew text now evident is what got this
thread going. I'm fairly certain it comes from the translation error in
the Septuagint and illustrates how the Septuagint was used by the NT
writers, presumably in preference to the Hebrew if the Hebrew was used
at all, but of course there is no such proof of such a theory, only
evidence to be weighed. What is your theory for the famous "virgin" of
Isaiah?

>Anyway, we are not talking about "discrediting the Masoretic tradition".
>Masoretic tradition is a very valuable source, and that is why
>most Christian Bible translations use the Masoretic text as the basis
>of the OT text.  At the same time, everybody realizes that the Masoretic
>text is not perfect, and every responsible Bible translator, including
>those translating JPS, would also take other ancient text material into
>consideration.  My point is that the Septuagint deserves such a
>consideration, as some of the best Christian translators have realized. 

Some excerpts from JPS Tanakh:

The Septuagint and the Targums are not only the oldest translations of
the Bible but also the most influential. Down to our own day, virtually
every Christian translation has followed the methods of the Jewish
translators who created the Septuagint, and generally followed their
renderings of the Hebrew as well. The Christian translators also were
influenced by the interpretation of the Hebrew text set forth in the
Targums (much of it in oral form at the time) and by the writings of the
Jewish philosopher-interpreter Philo of Alexandria (died about 45 CE).

The committee profited much from the work of previous translators; the
present rendering, however, is essentially a new translation. A few of
its characteristics may be noted. The committee undertook to follow
faithfully the traditional Hebrew text, but there were certain points at
which footnotes appeard necessary: (1) where the committee had to admit
that it did not understand a word or passage; (2) where an alternative
rendering was possible; (3) where an old rendering, no longer retained,
was so well known that it would very likely be missed, in which case the
traditional translation was given in the name of "Others" (usually
referring to the Society's version of 1917 - based on KJV/Septuagint);
(4) where the understanding of a passage could be facilitated by
reference to another passage elsewhere in the Bible; and (5) where
important textual variants are to be found in some of the ancient
manuscripts or versions of the Bible.

In preparing the translation of *The Prophets*, the translators faced a
recurring problem that deserves special mention. The prophetic books
contain many passages whose meaning is uncertain. Thus, in order to
provide an intelligible rendering, modern scholars have resorted to
emending the Hebrew text. Some of these emendations derive from the
ancient translators, especially of the Septuagint and the Targums, who
had before them a Hebrew text that sometimes differed from today's
traditional text. Where these ancient versions provide no help, some
scholars have made conjectural emendations of their own. Many modern
English versions contain translations of emended texts, sometimes
without citing any departure from the traditional Hebrew text. Like the
translation of *The Torah*, the present translation of the prophetic
books adheres to the traditional Hebrew text; but where the text remains
obscure and an alteration provides marked clarification, a footnote is
offered with a rendering of the suggested emendation. If the emendation
is based on one or two ancient versions, they are mentioned by name; if
more than two versions agree, they are summed up as "ancient versions."
Conjectural emendations are introduced by "Emendation yields."
Sometimes, however, it was deemed sufficient to offer only a change of
vowels, and such modifications are indicated by "Change of vocalization
yields." In all cases, the emendation is given in a footnote, which may
be readily disregarded by those who reject it on either scholarly or
religious grounds.

The present rendering of *Kethuvim* (The Writings), like *Torah* and
*Nevi'im*, is based on the traditional Hebrew text - its consonants,
vowels, and syntactical divisions - although the traditional
accentuation occasionally has been replaced by an alternative
construction. Following the approach of the original committee, the
entire gamut of biblical interpretation, ancient and modern, Jewish and
non-Jewish, has been consulted, and whenever possible, the results of
modern study of the languages and cultures of the ancient Near East have
been brought to bear on the biblical text. In choosing between
alternatives, however, just as antiquity was not in itself a
disqualification, so modernity was not in itself a recommendation.
Divergences of the present translation from recent renderings reflect
the committee's judgment that certain innovations, though interesting,
are too speculative for adoption in the present state of knowledge. The
as yet imperfect understanding of the language of the Bible, or what
appears to be some disorder in the Hebrew text, makes sure translation
of many passages impossible. This uncertainty in *Kethuvim* is
indicated in a note; and, where the Hebrew text permits, alternative
renderings have been offered. However, emendations of the text of
*Kethuvim* - except for the five *Megilloth* - were not proposed, and
notes were kept to a minimum.

The text of *Kethuvim* frequently presented the translators with
extraordinary difficulties, for it is hardly possible to convey in
English the fullness of the Hebrew, with its ambiguities, its overtones,
and the richness that it carries from centuries of use. Still, it was
their goal to transmit something of the directness, the simplicity, and
the uniquely Israelite expressions of piety that are so essential to the
sublimity of the Hebrew Bible.

Torah (Mosaic Law): Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
Nevi'im (Prophets):
	Major: Joshua, Judges, 1,2Samuel, 1,2Kings, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel
	Minor: Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum,
	Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi
Kethuvim (Writings): Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Songs, Ruth,
  Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Esther, Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, 1,2Chronicles

Aquila - A second-century convert to Judaism who made a literal
translation of the Bible into Greek.
Berakhot - One of the treatises of the Mishnah and the Talmud.
Ibn Ezra - Rabbi Abraham ibn Ezra, a Bible commentator and grammarian
who lived in Spain in the twelfth century.
Kimhi - Rabbi David Kimhi (Radak), a Bible commentator and grammarian
who lived in Southern France in the late twelfth and early thirteenth
centuries.
Masorah - The text of the Bible as transmitted, with vowel signs and
accents.
Mishnah - The code of Jewish law prepared by Rabbi Judah ha-Nasi and 200
CE. The word is usually followed by the name of the relevant treatise.
Peshitta - A translation of the Bible into Syriac, parts of which are
said to have been made in the first century CE.
Qumran - The site of the caves where Bible manuscripts were found in 1949/50
Rashbam - Rabbi Shmuel ben Meir, a grandson of Rashi, who commented on
the Torah.
Rashi - Rabbi Shlomo Yitzhaki, the best-known Jewish commentator on the
Bible. He lived in France at the end of the eleventh century.
Saadia - A *gaon*, ie a head of a Babylonian talmudic academy, in the
early part of the tenth century. His works include the famous
translation of the Bible inot Arabic.
Septuagint - The oldest Jewish translation of the Bible, into Greek. The
Torah translation dates from the third century BCE; other books of the
Bible were translated somewhat later.
Targum - A Jewish translation of the Bible into Aramaic, a language once
widely spoken in Western Asia, of which Syriac was a later development.
Ugaritic - A language of inscriptions found at Ras Shamra, on the Syrian
coast, in the second millennium BCE. Both the language and its
literature have shed much light on the Hebrew Bible.
Vulgate - The Latin translation of the Bible made by the Church father
Jerome about the year 400 CE. It became the official Bible of the Roman
Catholic Church.
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