From: spira@panix.com (Greg Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: AL Rookie of Year Award?
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:47:40 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <steph.717806198@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>In <1992Sep29.043819.9110@panix.com> spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:
>
>>In <steph.717717072@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>
>
>>My argument may be a bit strong, but I don't think its more than that.  I
>>would definitely think that, say, 24 of the current major league shortstops
>>would be worth more than the best defensive centerfielder.  Let's take
>>real life examples.  Does Jeff Blauser, a horrendous defensive shortstop,
>>have more defensive value than Devon White?
>
>If we replaced Blauser with any other shortstop the Braves have, the Braves
>would give up less hits.  So his net value to the Braves defensively is
>negative.  Of course, the Braves would make less hits as well.  Normalizing
>for position, Blauser's offense is almost on a par with Terry Pendleton.
>
Okay, but forget offensive value.  Neither of us is interested in that
right now.  What we're interested in is whether Jeff Blauser's defense
is more valuable than Devon White's because of the extra difficulty of
the shortstop position.  Now, I think we both agree that Devon White
is a much, much, much better centerfielder than Blauser is a shortstop.
Yes, any other shortstop the Braves would put out there would be more
valuable defensively.  But I don't think that means Blauser has negative
defensive value, because you can't compare him just to other shortstops.
You have to measure his defense in terms of all fielders.

Now, I have no way of measuring this, and I presume you don't either.
We're both just theorizing, really, without any real evidence available.
If anyone has anyway to measure what we're talking about, speak up now.

[Aside - Has anyone noticed that McWeekly's idiotic TAG system rates Frank
Thomas as one of the five most valuable DEFENSIVE players in baseball]

To move to an easier example, would you agree that the worst shortstop
is worth more than the best first baseman? Or a DH?

>Blauser has less defensive value to the Braves than does Otis Nixon (especially
>if Deion isn't available).  However he's more valuable offensively than
>Otis.
>
What I'm saying, obviously, is that the ability to play shortstop for a
major league team has a value in and of itself.  Only after you establish
that value do you add on more value based on exactly how good at that
position he is.

>>Interestingly, White was sent to the minors after posting numbers that
>>would probably be acceptable for almost any shortstop but were not
>>acceptable for the best centerfielder.
>
>If we're going to normalize offensive numbers by position, why not normalize
>defensive numbers?

Well, we should normalize defensive numbers by position.  That's precisely
what I'm arguing for.  A bad effort at shortstop should be normalized to
make it worth more than a good effort in centerfield.

Greg 

---
To left field - This ball is out of here and this      spira@panix.com  
ballgame is over and I don't believe it! Ray Knight  158-17 Riverside Dr
hits a game-winning home run and the Mets have won   Whitestone NY 11357
7 in a row!    -   Tim McCarver, July 3, 1986         cmcl2!panix!spira 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball