HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: water storage for emergencies
Keywords: bleach water storage
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:23:14 GMT
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory

|> I think it would be a good idea to store some water in plastic milk jugs for 
|> emergencies.  How much bleach per gallon should I use?  How long will the 
|> water be good?  Should I change it every so often?  Is iodine better to use? 
|> I wanted to go inexpensively.....

The Red Cross recommends 8 drops of household bleach per gallon to
treat suspect water before drinking.  You could probably get away with
less if you're using tap water.  You should probably change the water
every 6 months or so to prevent bacteria build up.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:53:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvca.1992Aug26.005318.27511
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
:
: Another reason to mimic Pacific Northwest types and carry an ice axe
: at all times!  What's good enough for Trotsky should be good enough
: for Rover. <evil grin>

Actually, I know of a person who hikes with an axe-handle (you know, the
long kind).  He had been attacked by a dog a long time ago.

He's only had to use it once, but it probably saved him quite a few stitches.
I don't think the dog lived.

Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
From: jaym@hplsla.hp.com (Jay Miazga)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:02:29 GMT
Subject: Re: handy tip: priming MSR whisperlite
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Instead of priming your MSR Whisperlite with white-gas from the fuel bottle,
carry along a small squeeze bottle of alcohol.  Just fill up the priming cup
and let go, start the stove as usual after the alcohol has burned off. It's
really neat and clean, and gets the job done (I think it does the job better
than white-gas)  The flame is small and clean, doesn't freak you out when
you're too close to a vestibule or rain-fly, it heats up darn nice and best
off all, the stove doesn't get all gunked up with tons of soot from the gas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I've been using this method with my Whisperlite, but had recently abandoned
it because the alchohol didn't seem to want to light when it was cold.

What kind of alchohol do you use?  I first tried 70% isopropryl(sp?) which
was barely flammable.  Stepped up to 99%; it was better but still a little
finicky about wind and cold.  Is rubbing alchohol not as volatile as 
"real" alchohol?  I tried to find some Everclear (~100% grain alchohol)
figuring it would burn well, but the local liquor store didn't carry it.
I figured it could do double duty in a pinch :-)


jaym
From: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Pronghorns != Antelope
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:41:26 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

Next we'll be hearing that bison aren't buffalo.  As though some eastern
university dudes know more about the critter of the West than those such
as are herding or raising or eating them day-to-day.  Take a perfectly good
word, use it for a few centuries, and then some pundit will claim exclusivity,
as though a word has an inherent meaning all its own, and is not defined
through simple daily use.  One of these days we'll hear that something that
quacks like a duck and walks like a duck is really a mammal.  :-)

	Dave
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: MSR filter (was: Water treatment article from Am J Pub)
Date: 2 Sep 92 09:16:19 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

>tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
>  The MSR is a piece of trash, according to reports from the field.

In article <89520@rphroy.ph.gmr.com> rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com writes:
>Could you elaborate? I have been considering buying the MSR and
>the comments I have heard have been all favorable.

I can not remember where I read this but the comment I read was that
cleaning the filter(s) were a pain.  It was usually the smaller two of
the four filters that were the hardest to clean.  I looked at the MSR
after I had bought a Katydin (can't spell this morning).  Being able
to dismantle and clean the filter in the feild without having to worry
about lots of parts and gizmos is very important.  Although expensive
the Katydin is simple to clean and for the most there are not any
parts to worry about - I would sure hate to put a filter back in the
wrong way that has "gunk" on it.

I carry both iodine and the filter for getting rid of all them nastly
little creatures that reak havoc on my system.  Katydin has it faults
(like it is a pain not having a out flow tube - which prevents you
from acciedently getting gunk near the good water) and it is a little
hard to pump (which usually means it needs cleaning).

Cheers,

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"I always wanted to climb those peaks ...
	 just didn't think I would do them all in one day."

	My climbing partner after hiking/climbing in the Wasatch.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: helix.nih.gov (B. Hayward)
Subject: INFO/Goretex?
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:01:44 GMT

DOes anyone know/recommend any Goretex substitutes on the market? I was in my local REI 
where they have a product called Ventana which seems to do much the same as Goretex
but at half the price but the staff couldn't say whether or not it was a substitute.
Thanks. 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: National Park Mortality Rates (was Re: No dogs in Natl Parks)
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:41:58 GMT

No that we are on the stupid-tourist thread again,
I wonder if the statistics on how many fatalities and accidents in National
Parks are published somewhere.
I personally saw twp heart attack casualties in the Grand Canyon last Easter,
but never heard how many overall deaths there are.
From: ecologycntr@igc.apc.org (Ecology Center Fund)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:00:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Aug20.172708.25509@walter.cr:-152048232:cdp:1449600026:000:874
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ecologycntr    Aug 25 09:00:00 1992


First- procomm script is down, so i can't reprint the thread leading
up to this, sorry. :)

I want to see wild animals. I do not want to have wild animals charge
at me unnecessarily. I can handle a griz encounter by myself. I don't
think I could handle one with a dog there. 

And you have missed my point regarding the track. I don't particularly
mind seeing bike tracks, horse prints, or even horse shit. I don't mind having
people up there enjoying the wilderness. What I was referring to was
the sense of satisfaction that comes from seeing a track of a canine and
_knowing_ it's wild. If you've felt this you'll know what i mean, and if
you haven't, I feel sorry for you.

One more point. Do you really need to flame so in a friendly discussion?
Or did you feel I was insulting your dog? If so, please don't feel that way.
I'm sure its a credit to its genus. :)

chris
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco)
Subject: Re: boots
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 23:47:25 GMT

vsh@etnibsd.uucp (Steve Harris) writes:

>re: boot recommendations.

>Since you're posting from Brown, I assume you live in New England --
>you really should visit Peter Limmer & Sons bootmakers in Intervale, NH
>don't have the number handy).

603-356-5378

>quite reasonably priced for a custom boot.  However, the lead time may
>be a deterrent, last I heard it was about 8 months.

12 months maybe longer...

>Some people claim that Limmers are just an Austrian work boot with
>vibram soles

They also carry Austrian boots with vibram soles last I heard. You don't
have to wait a year for these!

I've found that fellow Limmer owners will pick you up when you're
hitch-hiking back to your car. This is definitely worth considering...
From: rlm@sunlight.Physics.UIowa.Edu (Robert Mutel)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: High Quality boots
Keywords: Boots
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:22:11 GMT
Organization: Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Iowa

I am in the market for a pair of high quality mountaineering boots. They will be used for backpacking with heavy loads and occasional mixed climbing on rock and snow (i.e. they must edge well and accept crampons). I have size 12 EE feet so I need a wide boot. The local shop has Merrill Guides which seem to fit the bill, but they are expensive ($230) and I need to special order the right size. Also, I have another pair of Merrills (lighter weight) which haven't held up well. 

Does anyone have suggestions? 
 
Robert 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:28:43 GMT

johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>
>Have any of you dog owners that have brought a dog into the
>backcountry had the dog get giardia?
>
No.

--Chris
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Svea 123R
From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:17:14 +0900
Organization: Menzies School of Health Research, Darwin, Australia
Keywords: memories of Svea

In article <1992Aug28.212201.16339@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:
>
>Also at a swap meet bought this big Primus/Optimus stove.
>It is box like with a brass tank cylinder inside.  When you open the box
>up, this hinge section in front moves forward and the tank slides forward
>along with it.
>
>Anybody know what this is?
>I did fire it up once, but now it is waiting in my shed for some group
>camping venture when I think I need it's "firepower".
>Someone told me I can get exchangeable tips for it and burn everything
>from white gas, to kerosene and diesel feul.

Sounds like an Optimus 8R to me, big solid blue case, brass tank etc.  Used
to call them CHOOFERS, cause thats what they do. *(-: 

You need to be careful using big pots on them.  If the brass tank gets too
hot the pressure relief valve in the fill cap releases and you end up with a
very impressive roman candle (and singed eyebrows).  Same as a blow out on
SVEA's and 00's.  I think they run Kero but I'm not 100% sure.  If you cant
find out else where  E-mail me and I'll look it up.

                                                     |      |
  Daryl Webb  (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)               \    / 
  Menzies School of Health Research                    \__/   
  P.O. Box 41096                                        ||   <<
  Casuarina N.T. 0811            ----------------------- *  <<
  Australia                                             ||   <<
  Voice : 61_89_228196                                 /||\ 
  Fax   : 61_89_275187                                * || o
                                                     /  ||  \    
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Re: boots
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:27:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.141409.14228@cs.brown.edu> pmh@cs.brown.edu (Philip M. Hubbard) writes:
# I recently returned from backpacking in Alaska.  The trip was great, but I
# was somewhat disappointed with my leather hiking boots.  Even though I
# covered them thoroughly with Sno-Seal, they still leaked a considerable
# amount of water.
# 
# I am now considering buying a new pair of boots.  I have a few ideas about
# what I might buy, but I would love to hear any advice from people out there.
# The two options I have thought of so far are as follows:
# 
# 1. Buy a pair of L.L. Bean's Maine Hunting Boots and replace their
# rounded-bottom soles with Vibram soles.  A friend of mine who is a ranger at
# Denali says some of his fellow rangers like this approach because the Bean
# boots are quite waterproof.  But how comfortable are Bean boots for hiking?
# 
# 2. Buy a pair of light-weight (i.e., not all leather) hiking boots and a pair
# of Gore-Tex socks to make them more waterproof.  I have a few concerns about
# this chioce, though.  Are Gore-Tex socks really waterproof and comfortable in
# field conditions?  Which light-weight boots are the best?  Do the Gore-Tex
# boots remain at all waterproof and/or breathable when they get muddy?
# 
# I know little about Gore-Tex socks and boots, so I would particularly
# appreciate advice on those topics.  Thanks in advance.


I have both goretex socks and goretex lined boots.  The socks are great for
footwear that can't be waterproofed -- but your feet still sweat in them.
They aren't very comfortable, but I am much happier with them on in
soggy conditions than without them.  I can't address their durability
since I haven't worn them enough yet.  I usually wear Vasque Sundowner
boots hiking or backpacking (goretex lined), and they have never
leaked.  I always wear two pair of heavy wool socks in those boots and
the socks absorb any moisture my feet release throughout the day.  So
no matter how soggy the conditions, my feet have always remained
comfortably dry.  I do wear gaiters if I am walking through wet grassy
areas to prevent water from entering from the top.

I'm sold on goretex hiking boots.  They are much more comfortable than
wearing goretex socks in leaky boots.  But discomfort of th egoretex socks
is much less compared to that of wet soggy feet.  The goretex socks must
be treated with great care or they will develop leaks.

Regards,
Tom
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 3 Sep 92 00:23:54 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1950042@hpgrla.gr.hp.com> edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore) writes:
>Regarding dogs in the backcountry.....
>
>This is a topic regularly debated in this forum, but I can't resist.
>
>My wife and I spent a few wonderful days in the Mummy range of RMNP
>2 years ago.  While walking above Lawn lake, we looked around and
>found ourselves in the middle of a herd of bighorns.  They were
>clearly skittish, but not intimidated.  We simply sat down and
>enjoyed them for nearly an hour.  There were other folks
>in the area, and I can conclude with 98% certainty that if anyone
>would have had their dog with them, we simply could have not had
>that experience.

If I owned a dog, I'd want to take him to the backcountry with me.
All I can say, however, is I'm glad I don't.  I'm 99% confident
that if I had had a dog with me during several grizzly encounters over
the last couple weeks, I would not be here posting this message now.
(Dog aggrevates bear, bear chases dog, dog runs to master.)  These bears
try to mind their own business, if you let them.


-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Report: Conundrum Hot Springs, Colorad
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:12:31 GMT

Herberg_David@tandem.com (David Herberg) writes:
>
>Has the pool gotten shallower?  It was 3 ft deep in the 70's, with a stone 
>floor.  We've had 25 people in there.  The oozing thoughout the general 
>area is also new.
>
>David Herberg, Herberg_David@tandem.com

I remember the oozing (spring water running down hillside from pool)
and the main pool seating ~15 people packed, as far back as ~1976.
I was there a week ago and all looked the same.

--Chris
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: toddl@ecs.comm.mot.com (Todd Leigh)
Subject: Re: Svea 123R
Organization: trunking_fixed
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:44:03 GMT
Summary: Possessed stove
Keywords: memories of Svea

The second person I ever went backpacking with owned a Svea 123.  He called
it his possessed stove because at times it would "flame on" and he couldn't
ever figure out why...  He got himself an MSR XGK and never went back.

Based on his recommendation, I got an XGK and have never had a problem 
(except when trying to simmer).

Most of the stories I've read here about the Svea sound like parents fond
of a troublesome child swapping stories of its exploits.

Have fun.

Todd.


-- 
Todd Leigh                Motorola Inc.      Opinions expressed here are
toddl@ecs.comm.mot.com    Schaumburg, IL     not those of "THE MANAGEMENT"
Facts all come with point of view. Facts don't do what I want them to.
                                           - Talking Heads
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: accessible = !wilderness (WAS Re: Oreg
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:51:10 GMT

In article <l9p31jINNlqs@cronkite>,
alpope@skids.Eng.Sun.COM (Alan L. Pope) writes:
>
>This reminds of a question I wanted to ask.  Anyone know what kind of research
>UCB is conducting in The Hall, area next to (part of) Hoover Wilderness where
>no one is allowed to stay overnight and other restrictions?
>
I think they are trying to re-introduce Big Horn sheep.  Human
presence may interfere with this until the population has gone
through a few generations.  Note:  I may be wrong about this.
From: jjh00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:41:30 GMT
Reply-To: jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


  jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com (JB) writes:
>
>   ...   Dogs are eminently
> trainable, and incredible companions, and no one has yet to pose an
> argument that will compel me to leave mine home.


It's _illegal_ to take them into National Parks.
This doesn't dissuade you?

Then I'm sure you won't mind if I drop by your house while
you're on vacation and steal your stereo.


This attitude of _some_ dog owners, that the rules simply
don't apply to them or their beloved animals, gives all
dog owners a bad name.

---
Joel Hanes
From: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas
Date: 1 Sep 92 02:46:34 GMT
Reply-To: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz) writes:
> I have passed and been passed on the trail.
> I don't understand why that should cause a conflict.  [...]  I think
> frustrations can rise if one or both parties in a sudden and
> forced relationship don't operate with courtesy and good will.

Absolutely true.  But there are those for whom speed itself -- not the logistics
of speed -- is the issue.  Speed doesn't bother me much -- let the faster
hikers, the horses, the bicyclists, go on by, and I'll keep walking happily.  I
do find my pleasure at reaching the top of a climb to be lessened by finding
automobiles, or a ski lift, there.  I suppose it's motorized transit that I
want to get away from.  (Oddly, when I'm bicycling, cars don't bother me, even
at the top of a climb.)

But I think there are some people who really want to get away from speed itself,
speed of any kind.  A running deer may be too fast because it upsets attainment
of a steadily slow pace as a counterpoint to life outside the backcountry.  I
don't know for sure -- I'm not one of those, and I don't completely understand
their motivations.  It's a different mind set from mine.  (I'm rather resistant
to speed all the time ...)  Maybe there is someone reading this who can explain
it better.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.meta.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.meta.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: colinj@engin.umich.edu (Colin Johnson)
Subject: (REQUEST) SOLO Wilderness Medicine Address
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 13:06:48 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor


	I am looking for the address of the Solo Wilderness Medicine
School in New Hampshire. Does anyone have it.
 
Thanx
-- 
Colin Johnson           |Colin.Johnson@um.cc.umich.edu
Ann Arbor Michigan      |colinj@caen.engin.umich.edu


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Subject: Re: methanol
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:37:16 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1992Sep1.211947.29093@voder.nsc.com>,
by pad@galaxy.nsc.com (Paul Denny x8349):

> Thanks for all the helpful replies - Some people suggested pharmacies
> but none round here stock it, others suggested laquer thinner from 
> hardware stores which I haven't tried yet but sounds promising.

NO NO NO -- not laquer thinner, shellac thinner!  The former will buy
you an explosion, not a clean fire.  The latter is alcohol!  Reat the
label if you take that route.
					Doug Jones
					jones@cs.uiowa.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:01:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.222925.24783@hpcvca.cv.hp.com>,
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
>
>Except,  in this situation, the dog ran from its owners and faced off in
>front of me, barking extremely loudly.  My wife nearly had a heart attack
>right there (it happened so fast, she didn't even know a dog was in the
>area until it *loudly* barked only a couple feet away).  The owners just
>laughed.  The dog kept on barking and running at me, to make me move.
>He kept running back and forth until he ran past us on the trail, and
>came at us from the other direction.  If either of us had flinched, he
>probably would have bitten us.
>
Another reason to mimic Pacific Northwest types and carry an ice axe
at all times!  What's good enough for Trotsky should be good enough
for Rover. <evil grin>
From: sawtelle@mariposa.stonecutter.com (Don Sawtelle)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Water treatment article from Am J Pub Health (1989)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 01:04:59 PDT
Organization: Stonecutter Software
Reply-To: sawtelle@stonecutter.com
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4

In article <la7rh0INNgur@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> (rec.backcountry),
tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
> The MSR is a piece of trash, according to
> reports from the field.

I filtered about 100 litres with an MSR on a trip in August; had no
problems, and found its design very convenient.

I had to "thumb-clean" the 1st stage screen once. It was easy to do. I
switched to filtering from water in a pot instead of direct out of
streams (one of which may have been quite murky; it was dark) and
didn't have to clean it again.

I wish it came with a cap that sealed off the entire "clean" end of the
filter so that there is no chance of contaminating that clean end with
the inlet hose end during storage. I developed various paranoid habits
(putting the inlet hose end in a bag, securely doubling the inlet hose
end under the pump handle, keeping it away from the "clean" end)
because of this worry.

It seems to me that without something that can seal off the "clean" end
completely there is some danger, even if the inlet hose is kept away,
of the interior of the storage bag becoming contaminated and it then
contaminating the "clean" end of the filter. Likely this would be a
rather dilute contamination, but...

I don't know what MSR's line is on this question. But for it, so far, I
give MSR an excellent review. And I expect that more or less similar
concerns exist with the design, use, and storage of other filters.

---
Don Sawtelle:Stonecutter Software:Mariposa, CA
sawtelle@stonecutter.com