From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Re: Islam versus Religion
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:31:00 GMT

In article <10292327.67487.14479@kcbbs.gen.nz> Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz
(Hakki Kocabas) wrote in response to dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian):

[DD] Gee...Mr. Kocabas, how can one possibly use UNIX without understanding the
[DD] Kernal? How can somebody drive a car without understanding the complex  
[DD] chemical processes of combustion? Well, some of us do a good job at both!

[KK] no..no..no..ask this: How can someone drive a car without knowing  
[KK] how to use the brakes....  
  
I didn't ask that question. Knowing how to use brakes is like knowing how to
read the Quran. However, understanding the UNIX kernal is to understand why
the Quran was written. That was my question -- yours is a different question.

Again, I wish to repeat:
 
[DD] First all Mr. Kocabas, what you presented must have come from a different  
[DD] discussion, for I have no idea what you are trying to prove to me that 
[DD] either I didn't know or argued in opposition to. 
   
[KK] Your point is:  
[KK]
[KK]'Islam' is 'religion'  
[KK]  
[KK] and   
[KK]  
[KK] 'religion' is 'way of life'  

No. My reason for entering this discussion was in response to the statement
that Islam is a religion, not a way of life. Further, I believe I provided
a path from a way of life centuries ago, to a written tradition today,
practiced when it is felt necessary, ignored at other times. This is known as 
religion today and its dilemma. One can read the Bible or Quran, and can
virtually "prove" whatever one would like. This not ridicule, but it is fact, a
fact that you use in "proving" what you wished I had said.

[ passages & references from the Quran deleted ]

[KK] I think there is enough examples here in the Quran which gives you  
[KK] a solid over-view how you can use this word "DIN" without ending up  
[KK] in the maze of metaphysicians' "DIN" ?! (Like D.Davidian)  

You engaged in precisely what I described. I am not being metaphysical, for I
view what is known as Islam, and what is written in the Quran in its historical
context. What you have done is to remove Islam and its written ways out of this 
context to "prove" that in fact, Islam is whatever you want it to be. 
  
[KK] If you were really keen to know the answer, then you wouldn't waste your   
[KK] time to ask me, but you would scan the Quran itself to figure  
[KK] out how the word 'Islam' is used in it.  
 
I have not asked you anything of the kind. I am quite happy that human beings
have the "akil" or "akhil" to view the world as they wish. You wish to view it
as you wish, and I view it as I do. It is when either of us impose our views
on each other that the problems begin. Your life is (or should) be based on
your view of the world, as is mine. In fact, may people justify a world view
or a way of life, by choosing a written justification of it, rather than being 
able to put into one's own words the world -- and their place in it -- as they
see it. Is it bad not being able to express one's place in the scheme of
things? I think so, however, that is my opinion, based on my view of the world. 
 
[KK] I am not here to give answers, remember....I am here to ask questions so  
[KK] that you may start using intellect=akil.  
 
Hmm...
 
[KK] by the way, tell me how do you say "Selam!" in armenian.  
 
I guess the closest to selam, when selam is used as a greeting, in Armenian is
"barev" (or "parev", in the western, Istanbul dialect of Armenian) or in a more
formal setting "voghchoin". However, the "religious" version of selam in
Armenian would most likely be "shnhoravorutiun".


-- 
David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org "It has been ever thus in all things, son, 
SDPA Center for Regional Studies    Whatever we thrash we give to the wind, 
P.O. Box 382761                     We too have been blown by the world's wind
Cambridge, MA 02238                 The chaff is gone but the grain remains."