HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: R U Attending Auction Ben Lomond Saturday ???
Date: Mon,  6 Apr 92 22:16:57 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: ba

Did you notice the auction listed in the San Jose Mercury-News?
I called the place up, and it sounds like they might have an
interesting collection of books for sale.  Lots of late 19th
century stuff.

It's over in Ben Lomond, and I was thinking of going, but I
suppose I won't.  But if I can hitch a ride with somebody,
maybe I'll go.  I'd contribute toward gas.  If you're
interested in attending the auction and might want to go
with someone, send me e-mail.  I live in Saratoga.

The auction is in Ben Lomond, with preview at 9 AM and auction
at 11 AM.  The auctioneer said he expects it to take 2.5 hours.

Mark Thorson
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: bhanafee@deimos.ads.com (Brian Hanafee)
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mountain View, CA 94043, +1 (415)
	960-7300
	<73066@netnews.upenn.edu> <1992Apr9.174800.19856@infonode.ingr.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 00:05:17 GMT


(not sure if my earlier response made it out; my news server crashed very
soon after I posted the first time).

In article <1992Apr9.174800.19856@infonode.ingr.com> palmerc@palmerc@abulafia.b21.ingr.com (Christopher M. Palmer) writes:
>I don't have a lot of respect for non-representational art *if* I
>don't know that the artist is capable of representational art.

   This sounds to me like some sort of "legitimacy" test of the
artist.  I'm curious, do you also have a corollary test for musicians?
Something like "I don't have a lot of respect for jazz musicians *if*
I don't know that the artist is capable of classical music."  Does
that mean that you have more respect for (say) Wynton Marsalis than
Miles Davis?  Does your answer change if I tell you Miles attended
Juilliard?  Does it change again if I tell you he dropped out because
he didn't like it and preferred to play in nightclubs?

>  Without this background,
>how do we know that the person has artistic talent.  Certainly some
>painting, abstract or otherwise, have innate artistic quality.  But if
>you are confronted with a Pollack or a late-period Picasso, how do you
>know if the painting is a challenge to traditional modes of art, or
>just the semi-random scribblings of someone who cannot paint.  Judged
>in a vacuum, there is some merit to the fact the some Picasso's look
>like attempts by pre-schoolers attempting representational art.

   I think this is the part of your posting that bothered me most.  It
implies that the only legitimate challenger to an art form is someone
who practices (or has practiced) the traditional form.  But art is not
a guild, and I doubt very much that many of the great artists would
pass such background tests.

   I also think you are being overly dismissive of the "innate
artistic quality."  While it may be true that Pollack or Picasso were
deliberately challenging traditional modes of art, the necessary
alternative is not "semi-random scribblings of someone who cannot
paint."  It may also be that the artist simply expressing something in
what he feels is the most effective form and is completely indifferent
to the traditional forms.  If the only test available to decide if
something is "semi-randon scribblings" is to examine the artist, then
either you, the artist, or both have failed.

   In my own case, I am the one who has failed so far with GR.  I've
tried to read it twice so far, and haven't gotten past the first 150
pages or so.  On the other hand, I found myself laughing out loud
while reading the "disgusting candy scene", and I'm convinced that I
haven't apprehended as much as I could, so I will try again.

--
Brian Hanafee                         Advanced Decision Systems
bhanafee@ads.com                      1500 Plymouth Street
(415) 960-7300                        Mountain View, CA 94043-1230
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Cruelty in Human History (was Re: The Painted Bird)
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1992 14:48:33 GMT

In article <1992Mar26.002306.28735@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> leeper@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Mark R. Leeper) writes:

>Most Holocausts have a goal of simple
>attrition, which is cruel enough.  The European Holocaust had much
>more cruelty for its own sake as a goal as well as attrition.  And
>that also makes this particular Holocaust unique.

I believe Mark Leeper is correct in his belief that the European Holocaust
was uniquely (or almost uniquely) cruel. (The qualifier is based on what
I've read of the Cambodian Holocaust, which seems to come pretty close.)

As Primo Levi documents quite well in his many books on the subject,
the Nazis often chose to be *inefficient* if by doing so they could
increase the amount of inflicted pain and humiliation. Stalin's mass
starvations were merciful in comparison.



--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis
mnemonic@eff.org | qu'on a perdus."
(617) 864-0665   | 
EFF, Cambridge   |          --Marcel Proust
From: Ronald_Ramage@mindlink.bc.ca (Ronald Ramage)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 10 Apr 92 09:06:42 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> 
> I don't have a lot of respect for non-representational art *if* I
> don't know that the artist is capable of representational art.  In the
> case of Picasso, I didn't have any real respect for his art until I
> saw a collection that had some of his early paintings which showed his
> transition from realism to abstract representation.  According to Kurt


I don't understand a response to a work of art that is mediated by a knowledge
of an artist's capabilities.  What you know about an artist doesn't change the
work of art a whit.

        To need to know of an artist's ability in "traditional"
representational art, before being able to appreciate the work in front of your
face, is to need to learn a chef's history of cooking before your mouth's
response can be trusted.

Ronald Ramage
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:27:12 GMT

In article <MATT.92Apr7222521@physics.berkeley.edu> matt@physics.berkeley.edu writes:

>I'm curious where Pynchon's opinion about literary criticism can be
>found.

In his contracts with his publishers, which provide that those publishers
cannot publish literary criticism about his work. And, given his deep
suspicion of the human facility for interpretation--a suspicion we find in
V, CRYING, and GR--it's no surprise to me that he insists on such a
restriction.

>By the way, Mike, good to have you back.  There's nothing quite like
>one of those hundred-articles-in-rec.arts.books days. 

Apparently there were problems in distribution from my site.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Anyone who has obeyed nature by transmitting a piece
mnemonic@eff.org | of gossip experiences the explosive relief that
(617) 864-0665   | accompanies the satisfying of a primary need."
EFF, Cambridge   |          --Primo Levi
From: klkarp@ratt.rutgers.edu (Karen Karp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: King Arthur, many versions
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:56:24 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


  I had a class last semester call Arthurian Romance and the professor
has three books published on the subject.  They are about the legend
and the stories that grew around it.  Some of the stories are really
good:  about Gawain, Percival, Lancelot, and Arthur.
  The books are called 'The Romance of Arthur I, II & III' by J.J.
Wilheim.  I don't know how available they are but if anyone is
interested in finding them, send me email and I'll see if I can help.
From: ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Ellen Gilchrist's _Net of Jewels_
Date: 8 Apr 92 10:55:38 GMT
Reply-To: ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Distribution: na
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Interzone Office
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com


For the interested:

Ellen Gilchrist's new novel, _Net of Jewels_ has been released.

Summary: NoJ continues/fills in the story of one of Gilchrist's main
characters Rhoda Manning, spoiled, crazy, fine.  The book follows Rhoda for
some six or eight years, from her first year of college through a first
(disastrous) marriage.

(I never know quite what to say about Ellen Gilchrist's work.  I've read
everything she's ever written and she's one of the two or three authors
whose books I consistently buy the moment I can get my hands on a copy.
But I always feel, well, strange _recommending_ her books.  If you read
Gilchrist, either you get caught up in the characters and need to know what
is happening in their lives, or you simply couldn't care less.  There seems
to be no middle ground.)

A note: A portion of NoJ is a (modified) version of Gilchrist's story
"1957: A Romance" from _The Land of Dreamy Dreams_.

Enjoy
Nichael
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 01:07:30 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.231358.19007@Cadence.COM> vince@cadence.com (Vince Gibboni) writes:

>    Kurt Vonnegut, who has an annoying habit of phrasing things better than 
>    me, has said (in a better-phrased way) that the reader's job is hard enough
>    and that a writer, while he may not enjoy it, is obliged - if only out
>    of politeness - to exercise self-disipline on the reader's behalf.
>    This, I think, is where Pynchon falls short.

It would never occur to me to attribute a lack of discipline to Pynchon.
In fact, it seems to me that at least three of his four novels
show exceptional discipline, not just for Pynchon but for any writer.



--Mike





-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Anyone who has obeyed nature by transmitting a piece
mnemonic@eff.org | of gossip experiences the explosive relief that
(617) 864-0665   | accompanies the satisfying of a primary need."
EFF, Cambridge   |          --Primo Levi
From: vail@tegra.COM (Johnathan Vail)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Bones of the Moon (WAS: DON'T send flamewar...)
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:01:57 GMT
Organization: Tegra, Inc., Billerica, MA
In-reply-to: tfarmer@datamark.co.nz's message of 6 Apr 92 22:22:37 GMT


In article <1992Apr06.222237.35617@datamark.co.nz> tfarmer@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Farmer) writes:

	   Has anyone read anything by Jonathan Carroll? I just picked up
   a book by him (the names escapes me) which was really neat. It started
   off as a yuppy lifestyle book (excuse bias) and ended up as an
   interesting twist on an old fairy tale.

_Bones_of_the_Moon_.  An amazing story.

jv


"Don't Ever Antagonize The Horn"
 _____
|     | Johnathan Vail     vail@tegra.com     (508) 663-7435
|Tegra| jv@n1dxg.ampr.org    N1DXG@448.625-(WorldNet)
 -----  MEMBER: League for Programming Freedom (league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
From: msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu (Mike Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:13:01 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario


                                Thursday, the 16th of April, 1992

Bob Ingria asks a fair question:
     You consider Euripides' _Bacchae_ an Apollonian work?

I do think that Euripides for the most part likes to tie
intellectual knots. The Bacchae is clearly built from out of
very primal material, but to me there is an intellectual
distance maintained even in the Bacchae that makes *me* much more
disturbed by the Agamemnon, even though I agree that
the Bacchae is used as the canonical example of the legacy of
from Orphic past. For my money, Euripides is the *least* tragic
of the three. 

          Mike Morris
      (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)
From: msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu (Mike Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:59:58 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario


                              Friday, the 10th of April, 1992

Joe Green writes:
   No, Ulysses is the greatest comic novel in English.  This means that
   it is the greatest novel.  
Umm, I can't quite share the intensity of this enthusiasm, Joe, but I'll
allow that time and more readings might change me. The thing is,
I have a personal reservation about Joyce that goes something like what
you were arguing against. My problem focusses on the Wake. I maybe
know it better than I do Ulysses. I've read the Wake between 2 and 4 times
(depending on how you count), Ulysses but once. I am very willing to
acknowledge Joyce's genius for language at every step, that he
exhibits complete technical control over his writing. But (not trying
to be too Paglia-tive) in the dichotomy between form (or style) and
content, I feel the content is missing. The Wake feels to me like it
is all style. Well, not quite. Let me (try to) explain: In Dubliners I
get a strong sense of the sterility of lives within a modern mass society,
lives seem to be small and contained to me. There is a thematic content
to Dubliners that I can carry away from it. Perhaps as well with Portrait
and artistic concentration and exile. But, in the Wake, once one is past
the strangeness of the experiment, and even past the exquisite beauty
of the language, there are the Great Themes which are sounded: recurrence
in history of mythical archetypes, the fall, resurrection, brother conflict,
and the Ewig-Weibliche. My trouble is that I never have gotten past the
impression that Joyce isn't artistically ``playing'' or ``dancing''
with these themes the same way he dances with his words. I think you
once said here, Joe, that style is everything (I don't remember if that one
was said in a sincere voice or not). For me, style is a lot. Reading Joyce
first taught me that it is more than I had thought. But, I still
hold that content is a lot as well. Finnegans Wake, as much as I love it,
as beautiful as I find it, just rings a little hollow for me, brittle
maybe, and that *feeling* (a feeling which may well change in time)
probably colors my memory of Ulysses as well.

          Mike Morris
     (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Moorcock's reference to Harlequin
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 16:14:18 GMT


rose@acf9.nyu.edu (David Rose) writes:

>mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:

>>rose@acf9.nyu.edu (David Rose) writes:

>>> Commedia dell'arte was a form of theatre ...

>  I never did.  That was M.H. Nadel.

A Miriam by any other name, would smell as sweet.
Please accept my apologies.


Mark
From: weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:27:46 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: Leroy.

In article <leroy.702778784@syzygy>, Leroy. writes:
>       I haven't. I've said Pynchon is pretentious, badly written and boring;
>Vineland certainly justifies those opinions.

I found it funny and exciting.  While I find Pynchon funny in general, his
humor was always of a weird laughter-suppressive type until VINELAND, which
made me laugh out loud repeatedly.

>					      If Vineland isn't representative
>of the "average" Pynchon, please let me know.

I don't think it is representative.  It's his first truly political book,
which is part of its appeal.

>					       When I can find $20, I'll buy
>(and read) Gravity's Rainbow.

>       It's wonderful we can argue like this without patronising each other. 

You don't have to insult what _you_ haven't figured out.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Irrelevant _GR_ question
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:03:41 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <1992Apr17.171529.19852@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> gxs11@po.CWRU.Edu (Gary Stonum) writes:
>
>In a previous article, tmaddox@milton.u.washington.edu (Tom Maddox) says:
>
>>	That's because Solly kept telling them in Russian and sobbing
>>so hugely you couldn't hear a word he said.  Though to be fair, if Jerry
>>didn't wear that false nose and ears, he might hear better.
>
>Is that why I didn't recognize Jerry when James Earl Jones played
><him> in Field of Dreams?


No, what fooled you is that Jones is too tall.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Anyone who has obeyed nature by transmitting a piece
mnemonic@eff.org | of gossip experiences the explosive relief that
(617) 864-0665   | accompanies the satisfying of a primary need."
EFF, Cambridge   |          --Primo Levi
From: wark@gandalf.think.com (Mark Warkentin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Date: 15 Apr 92 09:17:38
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
	<1992Apr14.205151.26537@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gandalf.think.com
In-reply-to: paul@clodii.Columbia.NCR.COM's message of Tue, 14 Apr 92 20:51:50 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.205151.26537@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> paul@clodii.Columbia.NCR.COM (Paul Fidler) writes:


   In article <1992Apr10.132743.7505@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale) writes:
   >
   >Things I learned when I moved from Long Island (New York) to Michigan and
   >Ohio:
   >
   >Soda was pop.  I had to get used to that; if you said soda, you got plain
   >soda water. 


   Uh, 

   What did you expect to get?  Coca Cola?  Mountain Dew?  7Up?  Sprite?

   I mean, the variety of carbonated soft drinks/pop/sodas/"cokes" is such
   that they are usually specified by trade name, no?

   If you said "pop", what did that mean? Any brown-colored cola?



   What about root beer?

"Pop" is anything non-alchoholic that fizzes.


							"No Coke--'Pepsi'" SNL
--
         #  The opinions expressed are not my own and I disavow #
         #  any responsibility for them whatsoever. Then again, #
         #  my employer isn't responsible for them, either.     #
From: joshm@netlink.cts.com (Josh Mercer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: TV This Week (April 11 - 17, 1992)
Date: 13 Apr 92 09:19:57 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

Just for the record, I think it's a travesty that Dark Water is getting the 
axe.  It's probably because the stupid toys didn't sell well enough
(sort of like Robotech).  I, too, have LOADS of complaints with the
last 8 episodes, but for what it was (that is, the Fox miniseries with
Roddy Mcdowal as Niddler), I shall miss it when it's gone.
 

--                    
INTERNET:  joshm@netlink.cts.com (Josh Mercer)
UUCP:   ...!nosc!ryptyde!netlink!joshm
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 435-6181
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: 2805ak@gmuvax2.gmu.edu ( )
Subject: Re: The Last Unicorn
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 05:23:09 GMT


->   I just saw _The Last Unicorn_ for the first time on Friday
-> fantastic!  I urge anyone who hasn't seen this movie to go r

Yeah, it's my all time favorite, though I don't watch that much
animation.  The music by America is really good - very sad.
From: pac@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Purdue Animation Club)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Japanese Animation
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:51:33 GMT
Reply-To: pac@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Purdue Animation Club)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue Animation Club headquarter, somewhere in Midwest

In article <1992Apr15.172243.8658@acsu.buffalo.edu> v148rb5b@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (COLLIN MCCULLEY) writes:
>
>>Can someone tell me where I can get Japanese animation model kits or
>>videos in the D.C. metro area?  Thanx.
>
>	For that matter, would anyone know where to get videos in the
>Western New York (Buffalo) area.

Both of you gentlebeings should try Rec.Arts.Anime for more information on
this.

RAA is the place for Japanese Animation (anime) and you'll find quite a few
helpful people there. :)

:) :) :)  <- (Friendly faces of Rec.arts.anime)

								Highlander.

this
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: lwv26@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Subject: Re: when is Ren & Stimpy shown?
Followup-To: rec.arts.animation
Reply-To: lwv26@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Organization: Nedriv Software and Shoe Shiners, Uninc.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 11:25:34 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.084907.13311@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle) writes:
:Like the subject line says....
:
:Since it's on a network, I assume it's at the same time nationwide?
:

Wrong assumption.

Note 1: There are two Ren and Stimpy groups - more discussion than
you would believe appears in alt.fan.ren-and-stimpy and alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy.

As for times, the one island of sanity (if that phrase can be used with
this marvelous show) is Nickelodeon.  Every Sunday morning you can
see a RnS episode.  It comes on at 11am E[SD]T.

The other place that RnS shows up is MTV.  As for the time - they
do not seem to know when they want to show RnS.  I know that in the
past, it has been on at (E[SD]T) 8pm, 8:30pm and not at all on Saturday,
as well as 10:30pm, 11 pm and 11:30pm Sunday.  This past weekend, I
do not believe it was on Saturday and I forgot to check about Sunday.
-- 
Larry W. Virden			UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!lvirden
Same Mbox: BITNET: lwv26@cas    INET: lvirden@cas.org
Personal: 674 Falls Place,   Reynoldsburg,OH 43068-1614
America Online: lvirden
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: alberti@ux.acs.umn.edu (Timothy Fay)
Subject: Re: Looking for Eighth-Man
Organization: Revolutionary Anarchist Bowling League
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 06:19:20 GMT

In <92097.102921DANW@wuvmd.wustl.edu> DANW@WUVMD (dan) writes:

>When I was growing up I remember a cartoon called Eigth Man. I
>recall that it was about a robot/android spy.
>At about the same time I think there was another cartoon about
>a "child" android super-hero.

>Does anyone else remember these?  Does anyone know where I might
>be able to get tapes of either of these?

Some (all?) _Eigth Man_ episodes are in the public domain, so you
can find them on tapes from several small video companies (e.g.,
New Age Video based in Middlesex, NJ).  You can probably find these
tapes in larger video stores, and toy stores like Kay Bee Toys and
Toys 'R Us.

The "child" android super-hero you mentioned is probably _Astro Boy_.
Episodes of the original series (produced in the 1960's) are available
from a company in Iowa (forget their name at the moment).  These might
be a little harder to find (Dreamhaven Books in Minneapolis has a few
of the _Astro Boy_ tapes).

Hope this helps!

-- 
		Reply to:  avatar@pnet51.orb.mn.org
 "Bowl a strike, not a spare; Revolution everywhere!"  -RABL credo
From: pibeb@dcatla.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Could Disney do a human-only animation?
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:56:40 GMT
Organization: Digital Communications Associates, Alpharetta, GA


	I also enjoy animation of human characters and get a little
tired especially of things like turning Robin Hood into another cute
animal picture.  But whenever animators are asked about this, the artists
themselves usually claim to find human animation boring and redundant.
Even Don Bluth's Space Ace and Dragon's Lair meet with the same attitude.
To them, as entertaining as the stories are to us, they always remain
just a source of revenue.
	Bryan
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA