From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Date: 16 Sep 92 03:38:48 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <19635eINNahi@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> pvg@po.CWRU.Edu (Paul V. Gerwe) writes:
>>Actually, I feel GURPS has a *lot* more to offer than other systems!
>>The reason is that it provides a *universal* scale against which one
>>can rate a SciFi universe: you can look at characters, technology
>>and such in the context of the modern day world, cyberpunkish worlds,
>>hard SciFi worlds etc...and get an intuitive feel about what you can

	You know... this comment, combined with another I noticed on
.advocacy, finally crystallized one of the REAL gripes I have with 
GURPS.

	Bluerazor (Gog help me) said something I agreed with: Spacemaster's
psi system sucks because it works just like RoleMaster's magic system
(in fact, there is a place in the SM rules where the text refers to
"spells" instead of "psions"... editing slip...).

	This problem is even more extensive in GURPS. EVERYTHING FEELS
LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE!!!

	I guess one of the reasons I LIKE AD&D still, despite all of
its monstrous flaws, is that when I'm doing different things as a 
character, I'm doing different things as a PLAYER! When I swing a 
sword in GURPS, I roll the same dice in basically the same system as
I do when I cast a spell, use psionics, or pilot a starship. But
in AD&D, I roll a d20 to hit with a weapon, and hope for a high
number. I cast a spell, I don't have to (in general) roll for success,
but my opponent has to do something. In psionics (old style) I tended
to succeed or I might have to roll versus an opponent. 

	Does anyone else feel the same way as I do? I find systems
which have similar mechanics for everything BORING! They don't aid
me at all in "feeling" that I'm doing anything different. GURPS
made me feel like I had been reduced to nothing more than a mechanical
d6 roller. Roll dice.  Compare with target number. Roll dice. Same
dice. Same system. How can I even tell what I'm doing?


>>     Finally, GURPS has a *consistent* point system which guarantees
>>character equality

		[...]

>>     I think that the emphasis on power-gaming, optimization and
>>rules-lawyering which is inherent to most systems is revolting! GURPS
>>does a very good job at curtailing this behavior and fryingwould-be
>>Hack n' Slashers at the design level.

	If you really believe all that, I have megabridges to sell you.
GURPS doesn't guarantee equality at all. In fact, there IS NO GAME SYSTEM
ON EARTH that can  guarantee ANYTHING except its own existence. GURPS
is a perfectly good system, but it is NOT anything close to the paragon
of games you make it out to be.Sure, for the tested concepts
GURPS balances fairly well, but if you don't play precisely the way
the designers intended, then it doesn't work.

	And the rules-lawyers are an exceedingly common breed in
GURPSians. Optimization is a BYWORD of GURPS, or indeed of ANY 
Point-based game. In fact, the ONE thing that a randomized system
CAN really help eliminate IS pointmongering optimization; if you
don't HAVE that kind of control you can't minmax the character.

	In point of fact, GURPS is a basically good game system,
but it's not the System of God, any more than AD&D is.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc