From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:01:22 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Aug24.080940.20107@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au> davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
> >No, CBM shouldn't worry about compatibility with existing Apps.  They shouldn't
> >have with OS 2.04, either.  If they spent half the effort they spent on compatibility
> >towards VM, MP, and DIG, we'd have plenty of apps by now that worked.  And we'd
> >have those features.
>
> I agree this far.  Commodore shouldn't have to worry about software that breaks
> the rules.
>
> >While they're breaking all the Apps, the CPU switch would
> >be just dandy, too...
>
> Ah, but that would break EVERY application - there would be nothing at all
> left.  We'd be starting again from scratch.  Now, at least with OS 2.0, if they
> hadn't bent over backwards to make old stuff work, a lot of software would
> have broken, sure.  But, not all of it.  And, while software is being updated,
> we could have still had the option to boot 1.3.  That wouldn't be possible on
> a 386 Amiga.
>

No, it wouldn't be possible on a 386 Amiga.  Remember, though, all they need is a
working 'C' compiler and a working OS and all the stuff on the Fish disks would
be easy to just recompile.  The stuff that is worth it, anyhow.

> >Don't have 68K on the brain so much :)
>
> But I like the 68K!
>

I like the 68K, too.  But I won't buy a Macintosh just because it has one :)

> >Think about what it would mean.  The OS would use the 386/486 in true 32 bit mode
> >all the time - none of the DOS 640K barrier, none of the 16-bit emulation crap.
>
> You've just described a PC running OS/2.  Once again, why bother with an
> AmigaOS port?  More to the point, why would developers port their software to
> a 486 Amiga?
>

OS/2 has fewer apps than even the Amiga does.

> >Also, I don't suggest CBM drop the 68K altogether.  Not at all.  They can make
> >BOTH systems.
>
> That makes more sense.  Except that I don't think the PC-style Amigas would
> sell, not having any software.  CBM would waste development money they could
> put into the 68K line.  We don't need a fragmented Amiga market.
>

What CBM really needs is an end to the Amiga market and a huge step ahead - a
massive direction change.  They can keep selling their game machines (bulk of
Amigas sold).  And they will have a machine for the 90s.

> >Intel is moving the x86 line into the Risc universe, too.  P-5.
>
> I saw a quote from one of the cpu-makers recently, about the current state of
> risc vs cisc : "RISC is anything that isn't Intel-compatible."  They're all
> using the same techniques now.  However, as long as Intel retain backward
> compatibility in the x86 line, it must hold back performance - it's a
> restriction that limits their design choices, and which wouldn't be there if
> they had a blank sheet of paper to work from.  So, I don't believe that they
> can keep up.
>

yawn.  (no offense)

> >Occupying a niche gives us little in the way of productivity software.  It
> >closes the door to BIG companies that would otherwise support the machine
> >with quality software.
>
> If a machine sells in enough numbers, and there is a market for a product,
> that product will be produced.  That's free enterprise.  A niche doesn't have
> to be tiny, you know.
>

The remaining 3rd party amiga publishers is dwindling to a precious few.  Give
the world a machine that a SoundBlaster plugs into and you have bazillions
of developers already lined up and in place.

It would be slow at first, just as A1000 was.  But when the market hits 2-3Mil,
it is big enough for the Lotus and Aston Tate crowd to consider an EASY port.

> >Fourish?  That's what the Amiga is doing?
>
> No, but it could.
>

I used to believe it could.  I do not anymore.

> >  Declining market share is all the Amiga has ever done.
>
> That's funny - I'm sure they started from a zero base.  It must have gone up
> before it came down, hey?
>

Market share.  When Amiga was new, it had a few percentage points of the market.
It has lost a share in the market.

> >Ah, but you see, CBM has invested their whole future in their OS.
>
> In that case, they don't have a future.  What does AmigaOS have that OS/2
> doesn't?
>

AmigaDOS.  CLI.  Processes as we know them.  ARexx instead of Rexx.

> >An Amiga with 386/486 IS different.
>
> Looks like just a PC with some added features to me, and why would anyone
> support those features, when you yourself say that the Amiga chips aren't
> that impressive?
>

Which chips :) ?

> >And the reasonable software support is
> >a freebie for the big fish - 1-2-3, Novell, etc.
>
> No, the software support goes to DOS, Windows and OS/2, which the x86 Amiga
> may be able to run?  So what?  You might as well just have a PC (and that's
> my whole point - I keep repeating it in different ways).
>

Reality check.  It takes a MAJOR application, either hardware or software, to
make a computer marketable.  We've seen bursts in sales when a major App like
Digiview or Video Toaster comes along.  The PC had WordStar when it first came
out - and that was a compelling reason to buy a PC.  The Mac had MacPaint and
MacWrite which were very unique and visual.  A reason to buy the Mac.  The reason
to buy a machine is NOT the OS, unless the OS ships with Apps (word processor,
term program, rolodex, etc.).  And if those programs work well, you have something
USEFUL out of the box.

> >That's why NOW is the best time - new machines.  The value of your A3000 is
> >about to DROP like a rock.
>
> I know.  I've seriously considered selling now, except that I'd be Amigaless
> for an indeterminate amount of time.  If I knew release dates and availability,
> I'd sell up, but only to buy another Amiga.
>

My decision has already been made.  I will keep my A3000 forever (indefinately).
I got myself a fast enough PC clone that it runs everything well.  I find myself
regularly using commercial quality software on the PC where I rarely did on my
Amiga.  My 90Megs of application space on my HD is all wasted except for development
tools...

> >Go for it.  Just don't complain that little software, other than the OS, takes
> >advantage of your machine.  Don't complain if games don't work, since everyone
> >will be either developing for the A600 or not at all.
>
> We'll see.  I'll take the chance.  If it doesn't work out, I'll bite the bullet
> and get a PC.   :-(
>

Well, Compaq has a new 50MHz 486 machine with local-bus video and IDE (faster than
the drives are), 8MB of RAM and 6 EISA slots for $2800 or so.  Made in the USA, too.

>
> --
>
> David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
> Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
> Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy