HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joero@microsoft.com (Joe Robison)
Subject: Re: soaring near Seattle?
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:21:05 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

In article <1992Aug20.090025.24303@microsoft.com> joero@microsoft.com wrote:
> In article <Bt53Cu.7rH@math.uwaterloo.ca> gamiddle@math.uwaterloo.ca wrote:
> > Are there any glider operations within about 2 hours drive of Seattle?
> > Thanks...
> 
> Yep, Evergreen Soaring is based in Arlington, about 45 minutes on I-5

I should mention a couple of others.

Chuckanut Soaring is a rental operation, based at BayView airport.
Bayview is on the road to Anacortes, just west of I-5, and about
30 minutes further north from Arlington (for a total of about 1:15
driving time from Seattle).  They have a couple of Grob 103s, which
are very nice, but prices are higher because it's a commercial
operation, not a club.

There is a club near Enumclaw, southeast of Seattle.  I know very little
about it and have never been there, though I know it is easily within
the 2hours' drive criteria you gave.

A little further afield, there is a club in Hope, east of Vancourver B.C.
That's about 3 hours drive from Seattle.  They're in the mountains, so
they do a lot of ridge and a bit of wave, but there's very little chance
for cross-country soaring.  In fact, if you want to do cross-country
anywhere around Seattle then your only real choice is Ephrata.

Getting completely far afield, there's a new operation in Golden BC.
That's closer to Calgary than Seattle, but since you're coming from
Ontario maybe it's on the way?  I've only flown through there in power
aircraft, but some of the pilots from Ephrata did some soaring up there
and the pictures they brought back were spectacular.  There's no
mountain flying like Rocky Mountain flying.
From: wjb@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Bill Buse)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Re: Metro-III flight questions
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:35:40 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO

In rec.aviation, ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie) writes:
 >> 1)  Why didn't the pilots reduce power once we leveled out at 14000.
 >>    The noise level was way higher than my Mooney.

 > These Metro's are beastly planes.  Not only are they noisy, but they
 > are small (the fuselage looks like a big pencil).   I knew I was in
 > trouble when they asked if I wanted by briefcase checked.  I guess
 > I've been spoiled by the Brasilias they use around here for commuter
 > flights.

Around here the Beech 1900 has become the common 19 passenger plane for
commuter flights.  I've flown on one once and it was very quiet towards
the back where I was sitting.  I've heard it isn't so quiet if you get
one of the front seats by the props.  

Bill Buse
wjb@hpisla.lvld.hp.com 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: laubach@hpl.hp.com (Mark Laubach)
Subject: Re: Transition Glider to Power
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:10:39 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4

Yes, I'm one of the few people who has added ASEL onto a PP-G ticket.
I just did this in March after having my glider ticket for about three 
years.  This route unfortunately doesn't buy you much in terms of time
saving for getting the added rating.  But I'll detail my experiences
with some short comments.

- This is a rating add/on to your current ticket and hence, you'll 
  never actually be a student power pilot.  When the instructor
  signs you off for solo, you'll be a private PIC when you are solo.
  This has two effects, 1) ignore everything in part 61 about student
  pilots, and 2) all your cross country time counts for an instrument
  rating as it is all private time and not student time.  Note that 
  you cannot carry passengers until you get your FAA proficiency
  check ride done.  Also note that you do not need to be signed off
  legally for either cross-country or TCA although it is a very good
  idea to pretend this is so with your instructor.
- You'll need to take the ASEL FAA written exam.
- You can only use 10 hours of your glider PIC time as credit for
  your 20 hours solo time.  You still need to meet all the private
  pilot requirements for ASEL which part 61 details so well.

I found that I was able to handle a power plane real easily and smoothly.
Both my instructor and the DE commented on that.  So, you'll find it
really straightforward to add the new rating, it just takes more time
than anticipated.

--
Mark Laubach
PP-ASEL-G(at)


Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Subject: Re: Manuverability of 727
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 02:17:13 GMT

# Dan> Exactly how manuverabe is a 727?
{}
# As a transport goes, though, it's not bad.

And, if empty of PAX and fuel, it is quite a bit more spirited.
(Saw one at a CLE air show years back...)
--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Subject: Re: War story and story request
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:00:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.182422.25568@tss.com> burke@tss.com (Jim Burke) writes:
> an acceptable landing site?  At 1500 RPM, you aren't getting a whole lot
> of power but it is more than zero.  Would you want to fly at something 
> greater than best glide in this case?  That is, assuming your goal is to 
> fly the longest distance possible.  

My simple suggestion:  if you're at a relatively low altitude, fly at
whatever speed it takes to maintain (or increase) your altitude.  Forget
about maximum distance.  You have a situation in which you don't know how
much longer you'll have engine power, and if you cease to have engine power,
you'll be very glad for any altitude you've been able to retain.

If you're at a higher altitude, you could consider trying to figure out
what the "best-glide-with-power" speed is.

However, as Dan Masys so eloquently pointed out, when you're confronted
with such an emergency in reality (as opposed to on the net), you're
probably not going to be interested in remembering the specific speed for
your airplane and holding it +/- 2 knots.  So, you're best off trying to
hold a pitch attitude, and see how the airplane behaves.  Then make
adjustments to the pitch attitude to induce preferred behavior.

						Geoff
From: Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com (Steven.Schultz)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Su-29 info request
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:44:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: mixcom.1992Aug13.204400.16489
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.

I'd ke any information on the Su-29, a Sukhoi OKB product, based on
the Su-26M aerobatic aircraft.

-- 
Steve Schultz     Steven.Schultz@mixcom.com
From: mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com (Mark Rowe)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: "remain clear of the ARSA..."
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:13:03 GMT
Reply-To: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Organization: UDT-CV (ITO)

In article <ritter.713711877@claude> Roger Ritter writes:
> ...  Since an ARSA is designed to separate aircraft, not individual
> passengers, why is the passenger count criteria even there?

While you may be right about it simply being a case of excessive
bureaucracy, it may be that the criteria considers not only the
liklihood of a midair incident (based on number of aircraft), but
also the downside risk of such an incident (based on the number
of persons involved).

Mark Rowe             email: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Hewlett Packard       voice: (503) 750-3246
Corvallis, OR         FAX:   (503) 750-3788
From: Lyon_Jim@Tandem.Com (Jim Lyon)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: TRSA's
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:43:11 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation
Organization: Tandem Computers, Inc

In article <l98cksINNkl5@sol.usc.edu>, barney@sol.usc.edu (Barney Lum) wrote:
> 
> What I'm not really sure of is why Terminal Radar Service Areas exist in 
> the first place.  Is it something political?  Something to denote the 
> amount/type of traffic at a particular airport?  Conversely, why
> aren't all facilities with radar denoted as TRSA's?

Participation in a TRSA is voluntary for the pilot, but mandatory for
the controller.  Thus, if you are in a TRSA and you ask for radar advisories,
you will get them.  [At least, that's the theory.  One could test the limits
of this by arranging for 100 planes to simultaneously converge on Buffalo
and request advisories.]

Conversely, if you're in airspace that's covered by radar, but not part
of a TRSA, the controller has the right to tell you he's too busy when you
ask for VFR radar advisories.

-- Jim Lyon                           "... where the work is NonStop,
   Lyon_Jim@Tandem.Com                     and we do everything twice."
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: partial power loss, speed
Date: 17 Aug 92 10:51:13 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <BsvKDw.3y0@cup.hp.com>, joea@hpucsft (Joe Algieri) writes:
> Keep in mind that best climb speed will require an INCREASE in drag; increased
> lift requires an increase in induced drag.  Best glide speed is the airspeed
> at which both induced and parasitic drag combined are at a minimum.

Uh, best rate of climb occurs at the speed of greatest excess POWER. That speed
occurs at the minimum drag speed, since there is more power available for
climbing. Hence, the best glide and best rate of climb both occur at almost
the same speed. 

Best angle of climb occurs at the speed of greatest excess THRUST. This
speed is substantially lower than that of best climb.

Look it up in any aerodymanics text.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: barrk@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BARR KEITH STABLER)
Subject: Re: What type of plane is a King Air Super 200?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:20:05 GMT

In article <SHAFER.92Aug13203448@ra.dfrf.nasa.gov> shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:
>[stuff about big (15,000 ft) runways being rare deleted]

When the new Denver Airport is totally complete it will have 4 16,000 ft
runways, and 6 or 8 12,000 footers.  I love high density altitude. :^)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Barr              |                        |   barrk@tramp.colorado.edu
COMM-AS&MEL/INST/IGI    |  THIS SPACE FOR RENT   | barr_k@silver.colorado.edu
University of Colorado  |     INQUIRE WITHIN     |  barr@hickory.mmm.ucar.edu  
Aerospace Engineering   |                        |          barr@mmm.ucar.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: thad@lever.asd.sgi.com (Thad Beier)
Subject: Re: Locked on the Controls (was GLiding instruction)
Reply-To: thad@sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:54:12 GMT

This is a foaf story, but really happened.

My father-in-law was a Grumman test pilot, who had the
privilege to fly to Iran to teach them how to fly the F-14's that
we sold them.  The F-14 has no flight controls in the back,
except for one.  His best friend was instructing a pilot that
froze up during a spiral dive, and just could not bring himself
to roll level, despite all the encouragement from the Grumman
instructor in the back.  So, the instructor took the handle in his
hand and punched out.  The guy in front rode it in (the guy in
back cannot eject the guy in front, although the pilot will eject
both of them if he initiates the ejection)

And then there was a Navy pilot friend of mine that was really
upset that they made them repaint his F-14s all gray, from their
original gaudy color scheme.  Then, the first time they might
fly in to battle (near Iran) they had them paint the tails bright
orange to distinguish them from the Iranian F-14's.  So much
for low-visibility paint jobs.
-- 
Thad Beier..Silicon Graphics..415)390-1028..thad@sgi.com..C-172A N7770T.....FLY!
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Flying/Driving Habits
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:57:42 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

In article <Bt3ILE.920@chinet.chi.il.us> pjern@chinet.chi.il.us (Phil Jern) writes:
>I recently realized that I do have some crossover between flying and driving.

I find myself accellerating thru right turns and braking thru left turns.

-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539    rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com    CDP, PP-ASEL
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter)
Subject: Re: "remain clear of the ARSA..."
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:17:57 GMT

geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
>Whenever you get a "Straight-out departure approved, cleared for takeoff"
>instruction from the tower, which might allow you to fly into the ARSA, they
>append "remain clear of the ARSA" to the instruction.  It's not ambiguous
>that way, and if you've got a question about it, it gives you a chance to ask
>right then and there.  It's courteous, and perhaps a tad verbose, but it
>works.

Nice idea.  Worth suggesting to the Nashua tower folks.  Just occurred to
me, though, that Nashua is a non-federal control tower.  That may cause 
some strange political things to happen.

>Again, my impression of Manchester Approach as relayed by all those netters
>who wrote in is that they do need to meet some GA pilots and have some of the
>concerns of the GA pilots given to them.  My impression is that Manchester's
>traffic count barely justifies an ARSA.  Perhaps some pressure on them to
>improve procedures would allow their traffic count to go up enough to ensure
>that they hold their jobs...

Of the three criteria that the FAA can use to justify an ARSA (two based
on aircraft traffic counts, one based on airline passenger counts), 
Manchester qualified only on the airline passenger count.  The aircraft
movement counts were (and I think still are) *way* below the trigger
values.  Since an ARSA is designed to separate aircraft, not individual
passengers, why is the passenger count criteria even there?  This sounds
like just another instance of bureaucratic empire-building at the
expense of the public, to me.  As a somewhat related aside, the airport
management there seems to want to manage a 'big' airport, and just
barely tolerates those damned little airplanes.  I don't know how
much influence this attitude had on getting the ARSA put in.
-- 
Roger Ritter N1FZZ (R.Ritter@ma30.bull.com) PP-ASEL, AGI
1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky"
Sheep do not so much fly as plummet!        NH CAP: Profile 49
From: glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: So what' so great about Nut Tree?
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:17:19 GMT
Organization: What, me? Organized?

In rec.aviation, rah@public.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com) writes:

> I can assure you that Nut Tree's food cannot be considered to an 
> "up-scale Lennies, I mean Dennys.  

 OK, I appologize for making the comment. You're right. Denny's is a bit
 better than the Nut Tree :-)

 ..glen
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rmiller@i88.isc.com (Richard J. Miller)
Subject: Re: Ropes and gliders
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:06:37 GMT

the old hard/soft release question raises its head again :-)

>From: peltz@cerl.uiuc.edu (Steve Peltz)
>I actually feel more comfortable with a Schweizer release than with a
>Tost - if I do fail to release (because the release knob cable breaks
>or something), I know that when the towplane releases the rope will
>come free from the backward pull; even if it doesn't, it will pull free
>if the rope snags on anything, or I run over it with the wheel when I
>land.
>
>The only thing I don't like about them is how loud the release is.
>-- 
>Steve Peltz
>
>From: rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220)
>Steve Peltz mentioned the loud noise when operating a Schweizer release. This
>can be avoided by doing a soft release. Just before releasing climb about
>30 feet above the tow plane then dive down to tow plane level. This puts
>slack in the tow rope for a soft (silent) release.
>
>From: hagood@sabre.den.mmc.com (Dave Hagood)
>...
>GOOD POINTS:
>1) Easier on the hardware, since the loads on the mechanism are
>less.  In the case of a perfectly done soft release, the loads are 0.
>2) If the tow pilot is watching in the rear view mirror, (s)he 
>will be ready for your release.
>
>BAD POINTS:
>1) Since the towrope isn't loaded as much, it will not spring
>away from the glider upon release.
>2) Our local FAA designated examiner doesn't like students performing
>soft releases; he thinks it is a safety compromise.  If you botch the
>maneuver, you can end up with major slack line, excess airspeed, etc.
>
>The tow pilots at Black Forest have varying druthers.  Most don't
>mind, some like it, and one absolutely hated it: he couldn't tell when the
>pilot had released and was never sure when to do his breakaway maneuver
>(he once stood the tow plane on the left wing while I was still on tow).
...
>David M. Hagood

tow pilots are just so picky some times :-)

the critical problem with a hard release is the possibility of damage
to the airframe due to the release arm hitting a frame tube very hard
repeatedly. there is an AD on the Schweizer release that fixes this.

beyond the vagaries of the tow pilots, the real problem with a soft
release is a deeper version of David's first bad point. the Schweizer as
designed REQUIRES at least some pressure to operate. a very tightly
configured release arm (as many were just after the AD was applied)
might not even move on a soft release. when the pilot lets go of the
release handle, this would cause the release to close without releasing
the rope. the result depends upon whether the pilot notices if the rope
fell away or not, if the pilot just cranks right after pulling the
release, well ...

Rich Miller
ex-Schempp-Hirth Discus JBX and
ex-Rolladen-Schneider LS-4 TQ
rmiller@i88.isc.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: Mark Milbourne <milbouma@esvax.dnet.dupont.com>
Subject: Re:Glider pilots : how many are you ??
X-Xxdate: Thu, 20 Aug 92 12:58:37 GMT
Organization: DuPont CR&D/Scientific Computing Div
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:54:35 GMT

OK, here's what I've got so far.  I'm a little surprised at the underwhelming
response, but not everyone has time to read rec.aviation every day and this is
also vacation season.  We'll give it a week or two.  Thanks to everyone who
responded so far.

Rick has forwarded to me the responses he got.
If you have a glider rating, even student, please send me e-mail.  I know
theres a lot more of you out there going from who has posted to soaring
threads recently.  I could go though recent postings to get names and e-mail
addresses but I'm want submissions to be entirely voluntary in case some have
reason to not be on the list.

Wow, why do I have to have such a long e-mail address and location.  I could
barely make it fit 80 chars and had to leave off 1-26 and G103.  Looks like 80
chars is enough for everyone else though.

Mark Milbourne
milbouma@esvax.dnet.dupont.com
----------------- rec.aviators who soar ----------------------
Moshe Braner/braner@emily.emba.uvm.edu/P/Sugarbush, Warren VT/2-33,1-26,ASK-21
Michael Corvin/zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com/P/Black Forest, CO/
Rick Lafford/lafford@serum.kodak.com/I+T/Dansville, NY/Discus
Mark Milbourne/milbouma@esvax.dnet.dupont.com/P/NewGarden,Toughkenamon PA/2-33
Eric Niedrauer/ericn@corp.sgi.com/P/Truckee CA/PIK20D
Ian Spence/spence@psych.toronto.edu/I/SOSA, Ontario/30+ types 1100hrs
Charlie Stone/cstone@ncc.telecomwa.oz.au/I/Narrogin GC, Perth Australia
?/lharts@hydra.unm.edu/?/?/2-33,1-2,1-26,G 103,Club

KEY:
Real Name/
e-mail address/
Rating (S-Student,P-Private,C-Commercial,I-Instructor,T-tow pilot)/
Location you fly (name of club or airfield, city state or country)/
Sailplanes you own(ed) or have flown (if many just include as many as fit)
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: sam@inavex.neoaci.msk.su (Konstantin V. Samotescul)
Subject: Russian Mi-17 helicopters for sale
Reply-To: sam@inavex.neoaci.msk.su
Organization: INTERNATIONAL AVIATION INDUSTRY EXCHANGE
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 13:54:51 +0400

>From sam Mon Aug 17 13:50:13 MSD 1992
We are offering for sale two Mi-17 helicopters (one-new,other-used).
Price 4,000,000 US$ for both. Spare parts, maintenance programe will
be provided.
If you should have any questions, please feel free to contact us at
your convenience.
International Aviation Industry Exchange, Moscow, Russia.
Konstantin Samoteskul.
Phone(voice/fax): (095)361-6473
E-mail:           sam@inavex.neoaci.msk.su
From: dt@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Ryan Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Me. 163 aerodynamics
Date: 23 Aug 92 04:05:01 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

I got a question. The Messerschmitt 163, used in World War II, was a plane
that had no elevators. My question is, how did it control pitch? Anyone have a
clue?
From: tetsuji@rai.juice.or.jp (Tetsuji Rai)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Principle of VOR
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:30:26 GMT
Organization: Rai's home in Tokyo

In article <1992Aug18.220044.2704@sics.se> lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.105101.543@rai.juice.or.jp>, tetsuji@rai (Tetsuji Rai) writes:
>>
>>Hi, netters:
>>
>>    Very fundamental question(I suppose).
>>    What is the principle of VOR system ?   I've ever read that the difference
>>....
>
>The VOR carrier wave is modulated with two signals: One 30 Hz variable
>phase signal and one 9960 Hz subcarrier signal, which in its turn is
>modulated with the 30 Hz reference phase signal.
>
>(Actually, the VOR carrier is also modulated with the ID signal at
>1020 Hz and the voice channel in the band 300 - 3000 Hz).

  Thank you.   I got some reply-emails, but they differ in some points(and
so does yours..) and I'm at a loss.   But your explanation seems most 
reliable..   How are those signals modulated ??

-Tetsuji