HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eyal@echo.canberra.edu.au (Eyal Lebedinsky)
Subject: F15/SEIII questions
Summary: Some wanderings about how real it is
Keywords: HUD, realizm
Organization: Info Sci & Eng, University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA
Date:  6 Jan 93 09:59:08 GMT

Hello Everyone,

I Just got F15/SE-III and managed to install it (with the usual funny
stuff: at first it would not create the configuration data. I figured it
will do this once I run install with enough mem/ems. It did).

Apart from finding the frame rate rather slow (I use a 486/50 with a
et4000 SVGA card) it looks better than F3 when it comes to detail (I
have no clue how correct it is though).

I set all options to highest fidelity available.

I have some questions about the HUD. This can be answered by people who
know what the real thing looks like:

1) is the heading scale showing only the tens? In a FA18 video I saw
   that the full 3 digit heading is shown.

2) the velocity vector seems to hardly ever move anywhere. Relative to
   the 5 degrees pitch marking I's say that this game never flys at an AOA
   over 2 degrees. What a feat.

3) The hud is 20 Degrees high and 30 degrees wide - is this realistic? I
   thought that only the very new holographic HUDs (not yet very common)
   can cover so much area. Is this reallistic?

4) Generally, flying straight down causes the pitch ladder to go crazy
   (this is expected and normal); however, I found it to get really stuck
   under such situations, and I could swear that the plane had some bad
   time too just then. Anybody else had that experience?

5) this is not about the hud. I found it possible to fly at 500 feet,
   push the stick down and do a full reverse loop without loosing more than
   200-300 feet and with no G problem. Surely this cannot be right??? I was
   doing at least 600kt at the start of the maneuver.

Now I can calmly sit to read the manual...
From: danl@col.hp.com (Daniel Lockhart)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Strike Eagle III problems
Date: 4 Jan 1993 14:49:29 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpcsqm.col.hp.com

stauffer@src.honeywell.com (Don Stauffer) writes:
>    I recently purchased SE III, and am having a problem I havent seen
> mentioned.  I have tried to call MP, but their support number is eternally
> busy.
>    After running the install program numerous times, when I try to run
> the game itself, it tells me I have to run the install program first.  It
> seems as if the configuration file is not being written to my drive.  Does
> anyone know what the file is called?  There seems to be no menu selection
> for writing a file to disk in the install menu.  I therefore assume that
> writing the currently selected configuration or setup file is automatic
> upon selecting "exit to DOS".  Is this true?  When I do select this
> selection, the DOS prompt appears awfully fast, and not a hint is mentioned
> about writing the file to DOS.  I notice no disk activity.  Is this normal?
>    Don in Minneapolis

I too experenced a simuilar problem, everything installed until you got to the
point of writing the config file.  I got a complete machine lockup.  After 
manually redefining my config.sys and autoexec.bat files for all the memory
plus expanded memory, the program installed.  hope it helps.

daniel

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Subject: Re: CH Flightstick in ATP
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 03:01:10 GMT

In article <19568@mindlink.bc.ca> Ian_Staines@mindlink.bc.ca (Ian Staines) writes:
>....(more)
>My "CH Flightstick" now works in my games port. I have been using it for FS4,
>and it is GREAT! I have co-ordinated aileron & rudder plus elevator and
>throttle.
>
>I am having problems getting this to work with ATP.  If I select the single
>joystick mode I do not get the THROTTLE control.  However; if I choose the
>double joystick mode, ATP assumes I have rudder pedals as well, and disables
>the co-ordinated aileron and rudder movement. Is there any way to set
>co-ordinated flight mode as well as have a throttle?

You can toggle co-ordinated flight in ATP by hitting the '/' key ... Just
be careful you don't hit '\' by accident..  :)  The latter gives you full
thrust.  :)

-- 
John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: cthudgin@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER T. HUDGIN)
Subject: ATP 3D window screen resolution
Originator: cthudgin@c00082-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Keywords: ATP
Reply-To: cth@math.ncsu.edu (Christopher T. Hudgin)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 23:44:07 GMT


   Is it my imagination, or does the 3D window in Flight Assignment:  ATP
operate in a lower screen resolution mode than the 3D window in Microsoft
Flight Simulator 4.0?  If FS4's 3D window operates in 640x350, does
ATP's 3D window operate in 320x200 resolution?  It just seems to me that
buildings, planes, and other features look less "sharp" in ATP than they do
in FS4.  Is this what SubLOGIC calls its "improved scenery?"  Less resolution?
(Note: I have a VGA monitor and run FS4 in 640x350x16 VGA mode and ATP in
EGA mode.)

                                                           --Chris Hudgin
cth@math.ncsu.edu
From: tetsuji@rai.juice.or.jp (Tetsuji Rai)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: FS4 and SoundBlaster
Keywords: soundblaster sb fs4
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:34:40 GMT
Organization: juice

In article <weoZwB4w165w@savanna.UUCP> jao@savanna.UUCP (J. A. Ollinger) writes:
>tetsuji@rai.juice.or.jp (Tetsuji Rai) writes:
>
>> Hi, netters,
>>   I'm playing FS4 with SoundBlaster(not Pro) and Mallard's SGA.   I can
>> hear the sound effect(engine noise, gear noise, etc..), but it doesn't talk
>> at all!   The manual of SGA says that sbtalk must be installed before fs4
>> is invoked, but fs4 hangs up just before it talks.   My machine is 486/33,
>> with ATI Graphic Ultra Pro(with ATI851.zip driver, but this fault occured
>> before i installed this), and my version of fs4 is FS4.0A.   Is it a problem 
>
>Try freeing up some memory.  FS4 shuts down certain features because of
>lack of memory.  Try and get around 600K of low memory available and try
>it again.
>
>=============================================================================
>J. A. Ollinger of Sacramento, Calif.
>This site is not yet registered on UUCP maps.  Route mail me to me at:
>JAO@SACTOH0.SAC.CA.US

Thank you for giving me a hint.   I've solved the problem, and the resolution
was simple.   I had been trying with blaster.drv coming with SoundBlaster
instead of SGA !! (^_^;)   Thank you very much.....
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Subject: Red Baron Mission Builder (Re: Formation Flying...
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:52:03 GMT

From article <1icasfINNjhf@tamsun.tamu.edu>, by mkk9316@tamsun.tamu.edu (Mark Kuebeler):
> How well the planes handle is sort of subjective.  There is a functional
> rudder (the Mission Builder adds rudder pedal support), and energy loss

Be forewarn that the rudder/padel (or it is spelled pedal?) in the
Mission Builder is like that of the keyboard -- one step left or right.
It is not proportional or analog like that AOTP, which can vary the
amount of rudder.  But, it is better than using the keyboard.  (actually
I spent $20 just so I can use the rudder instead of the keyboard!) 


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: seeya@tellabs.com (Michael Ciha)
Subject: Re: Upside down Boeings?
Organization: Tellabs, Lisle,IL
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:27:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.170034.17710@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> med2p@receptor.pharm.Virginia.EDU (Marc. Durieux) writes:
>I noted that it is fairly straightforward to fly the planes in ATP
>upside down.  Just get a good bit of speed, and then turn over with
>a full roll.  And remember that all your stick movements are now
>reversed.  It works even with the 747.  Anyone who knows if this would
>in fact be possible with these aircraft?  I realize they're not
>designed for it, but still...
>
>Marcel Durieux
>med2p@virginia.edu

I was watching the Discovery Channel--I'm not sure if it was a 'Wings' 
episode, or maybe the 'Frontiers of Flight'  one that they had and it
talked about the 707 and the development/testing of it--the test pilot
actually did a full roll with this plane (to show its capabilities).

He did not fly it for any period of time this way, but he actually did it
twice that day.  A roll (if done correctly) is a 1-g activity.  I saw some
video somewhere showing Bob Hoover actually pouring liquid from a pitcher
into glasses while the horizon went around as the plane was rolled.  

I wonder about extended inverted flight, however...

Can anyone elaborate further???

Mike

-- 
==========================================================================
Can't catch a turtle 			|  	 Michael T. Ciha
in this rat race			| Tellabs, Inc.  Lisle, IL 60532
Feel like I'm losing time		|
at a breakneck pace			|	seeya@tellabs.com
					|	...!uunet!tellab5!seeya
-Stevie Ray Vaughan, 'Tightrope'	|
==========================================================================
From: tetsuji@rai.juice.or.jp (Tetsuji Rai)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: FS4 and SoundBlaster
Keywords: soundblaster sb fs4
Date: 5 Jan 93 11:33:50 GMT
Organization: juice


Hi, netters,
  I'm playing FS4 with SoundBlaster(not Pro) and Mallard's SGA.   I can
hear the sound effect(engine noise, gear noise, etc..), but it doesn't talk
at all!   The manual of SGA says that sbtalk must be installed before fs4
is invoked, but fs4 hangs up just before it talks.   My machine is 486/33,
with ATI Graphic Ultra Pro(with ATI851.zip driver, but this fault occured
before i installed this), and my version of fs4 is FS4.0A.   Is it a problem ?

   Thank you in advance.

-Tetsuji

--
 Tetsuji Rai    tetsuji@rai.juice.or.jp
   5-12-21, Toyotamakita, Nerimaku, Tokyo 176, Japan
   voice: +81-3-3557-3936   fax: +81-3-3993-0323
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: aepp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Anton Epp)
Subject: FS5
Keywords: FS
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 13:57:22 GMT

Is there going to be an FS5?  Does anyone out there know?

What other recommondations would people make for realistic simulators
of (moden) aircraft?  I (unfortunatly) only caught the last half of the
SEIII debate.  I'm interested in realism and visual effect mostly.

 - Anton
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Reality is for people who lack imagination.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Murray)
Subject: Re: Upside down Boeings?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 05:28:23 GMT

Niels Ejvind Andersen writes:

: It's possible!  There was an article in National Geographic some year ago
: about a 747 which performed a full roll with a load of passengers.  The
: passengers complained that the aircraft had gone inverted, but the pilots
: denied the roll had occurred.  However, when the flight data recorder tape
: was input into a computer so the flight path of the aircraft could be
: reconstructed, the full roll was evident.
:
: For some still unknown reason, the aircraft had gone into an uncontrolled
: descent, and the pilots did not notice the roll---they were too busy trying
: to get the aircraft back under control.

I believe this was the CAAC incident.  If my memory is correct, the crew's
carelessness with the autopilot was the culprit.  In the end, the plane lost
something like 20,000 feet (or even more, I can't remember offhad).

The passengers did more than complain, I'm sure.  :-)
--

       Joel Murray / Vancouver, British Columbia  /  Canada, Eh?
       Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca               CIS:  73200,3117

Ligneous and petrous projectiles can potentially fracture my osseous
structure, but pejorative appellations will forever remain innocuous.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Upside down Boeings?
From: visser@n6batws1.itwol.bhp.com.au (Martin Visser)
Date: 11 Jan 93 08:52:05 +1000
Distribution: world
Organization: BHP Steel - Slab and Plate Products Division - Port Kembla AUSTRALIA

In article <C0I66I.Ayw@mach1.wlu.ca>, eandersn@mach1.wlu.ca (Niels Ejvind Andersen) writes:
|> Marc. Durieux (med2p@receptor.pharm.Virginia.EDU) wrote:
|> : I noted that it is fairly straightforward to fly the planes in ATP
|> : upside down.  Just get a good bit of speed, and then turn over with
|> : a full roll.  And remember that all your stick movements are now
|> : reversed.  It works even with the 747.  Anyone who knows if this would
|> : in fact be possible with these aircraft?  I realize they're not
|> : designed for it, but still...
|> 
|> It's possible!  There was an article in National Geographic some year ago
|> about a 747 which performed a full roll with a load of passengers.  The
|> passengers complained that the aircraft had gone inverted, but the pilots
|> denied the roll had occurred.  However, when the flight data recorder tape
|> was input into a computer so the flight path of the aircraft could be
|> reconstructed, the full roll was evident.
|> 
|> For some still unknown reason, the aircraft had gone into an uncontrolled
|> descent, and the pilots did not notice the roll---they were too busy trying
|> to get the aircraft back under control.  
|> 
|> Each aircraft has a maximum positive and negative G limitation, as well
|> as a never exceed speed, and as long as these limitations are not grossly
|> exceeded, the aircraft should hold together, regardless of its size.
|> 
|> However, my stomach has a standing rule about avoiding aerobatics in real
|> airplanes, big or small, but I wear a seat-belt at all times nevertheless!
|> --
|> Niels Ejvind Andersen     [eandersn@mach2.wlu.ca / 70511.2302@compuserve.com]
|> Information Systems, Wilfrid Laurier University, Waterloo, ON  N2L 3C5 Canada
|>                                                                   ... VFR NC4
|> 


At a guess however, I would imagine that a 747's fuel system is not designed for
sustained inverted flight, i.e. the fuel needs to come out of the bottom
of the tanks.

-- 
Regards, Martin

   /\/\     :  Martin Visser - Electrical / Software Engineer 
  / / /\    :  Engineering Technology Department
 / / /  \   :  BHP Steel - Slab and Plate Products Division
/ / / /\ \  :  P.O. Box 1854 Wollongong NSW 2500 AUSTRALIA
\ \/ / / /  :  Phone    +61-42-75-7522 ext. 6207
 \  / / /   :  Fax      +61-42-75-7038 
  \/\/\/    :  E-mail   visser@n6batws1.itwol.bhp.com.au
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: bass@convex.com (Brad F. Bass)
Subject: Re: ACM 3.0?
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:47:55 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

rroman@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Randall Roman) writes:

>A while ago it was posted that ACM 3.0 was to be released in December '92.

Well, I wondered when people would start asking.  I had lunch yesterday
with Riley Rainey, ACM's author.  Basically, work has been keeping him
busy.  He hopes to get ACM3 out the door before the end of January, but
it'll probably slip to February.  Sorry 'bout that.

--
Brad Bass		"...we're in deep voodoo..."
bass@convex.com			Ross Perot on trickle-down economics
Convex Computer Corp.	
Richardson, Texas
From: sh09@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (STEVEN HIGGINS)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: F15/SEIII questions
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:22:17 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>Apart from finding the frame rate rather slow (I use a 486/50 with a
>et4000 SVGA card) it looks better than F3 when it comes to detail (I
>have no clue how correct it is though).

    Low framerate on a 486/50?????  Good Grief, what are they using to
    develop this stuff?
>
>I have some questions about the HUD. This can be answered by people who
>know what the real thing looks like:
>
>1) is the heading scale showing only the tens? In a FA18 video I saw
>   that the full 3 digit heading is shown.

    More likely the first two digits, 270 would be 27?

>2) the velocity vector seems to hardly ever move anywhere. Relative to
>   the 5 degrees pitch marking I's say that this game never flys at an AOA
>   over 2 degrees. What a feat.

    Seems low to me too.  Can you achieve higher AOAs without a bomb load?
>
>3) The hud is 20 Degrees high and 30 degrees wide - is this realistic? I
>   thought that only the very new holographic HUDs (not yet very common)
>   can cover so much area. Is this reallistic?

    The F15E has a wide-angle HUD.  20 x 30 is correct.
>
>5) this is not about the hud. I found it possible to fly at 500 feet,
>   push the stick down and do a full reverse loop without loosing more than
>   200-300 feet and with no G problem. Surely this cannot be right??? I was
>   doing at least 600kt at the start of the maneuver.

    Pretty expensive hole you just dug, bud.  Hope you don't drive like that...
    :-)
-- 

~Steve
sh09@lehigh.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Upside down Boeings?
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 19:28:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.180346.4467@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P.  Mechalas) writes:

>As a side note, I remember reading a long time ago where a
>test pilot was able to do a barrel roll in a DC-9 or DC-10
>...  I can't remember which.  :)

In the prototype Boeing 707, the test pilot did a complete
roll during an important demonstration, caught all sorts of
hell for it.  But the film looked really neat!  It was
recently shown on TV here.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: Darryl Rouse <rouse@thumper.bellcore.com>
Subject: Control Yoke and Rudder Pedals
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 18:12:05 GMT


I just started playing around with FS4 and am interested in improving
the "realism" with a Control Yoke and Pedals. I think I have seen such
things around and would like to hear some comments on them (versus the
mouse for example). I would particularly like suggestions on what and
where to buy. Do they just plug into the joystick connectors? Do they
really add to the realism? Are they worth the money? 

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Darryl

--------------------------------------------------------------
Darryl Rouse <rouse@thumper.bellcore.com>
Bellcore Room 2B-227/445 South Street/Morristown NJ 07962-1910
voice: +201 829 43 36; fax: +201 829 58 88
From: jao@savanna.UUCP (J. A. Ollinger)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Upside down Boeings?
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 18:10:38 PST
Distribution: na
Organization: Savanna, Ltd.

eandersn@mach1.wlu.ca (Niels Ejvind Andersen) writes:

> For some still unknown reason, the aircraft had gone into an uncontrolled
> descent, and the pilots did not notice the roll---they were too busy trying
> to get the aircraft back under control.  

I'm not calling anyone a liar--but I find that *real* hard to believe.



=============================================================================
J. A. Ollinger of Sacramento, Calif.
This site is not yet registered on UUCP maps.  Route mail me to me at:
JAO@SACTOH0.SAC.CA.US
From: tmis1692@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: WANTED: Helicopter Simulator like FS4
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:09:14 -0600
Keywords: Helicopter, Simulator, FS4
Distribution: world
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

Are there any helicopter simulators similar to MS FS4?
Thanks,
Kevin - TMIS1692@selu.edu
From: mcdonald@skorpio.usask.ca (Shane McDonald)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Adventure Factory questions
Date: 12 Jan 1993 22:30:51 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: skorpio.usask.ca

In article <1993Jan12.135830.11400@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>, mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes:
|> I have been playing with the Adventure Factory for FS4 as of late, and
|> have been wondering...

[question I can't answer deleted]

|>    Also, does the RADIAL(NORTH,EAST,LOW,HIGH) condition give results in
|> true radial or a result correct for magnetic variation?  I would guess that,
|> like the COURSE condition, the values from RADIAL are based on the 
|> absolute reference, and not the magnetic variation, but I don't have
|> my PC in front of me so I can't test it.  :)

  I've found that if your NORTH and EAST values are the same as for the
location of a VOR, the RESULT of the RADIAL() condition is the same as what
you see on your instrument panel.  So, I would assume it's based on magnetic
variation.
--
Shane McDonald                                       mcdonald@cs.usask.ca
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: jtg0707@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jui Tien)
Subject: Re: Upside down Boeings?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 06:48:35 GMT

rdd@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett) writes:
[deleted]
>It might be possible, but it'd be a structural risk.

>Of more concern is that the fuel and oil systems are designed to work 
>with gravity pulling the fluids "down."  Reverse the directions, and the
>fuel system wil start sucking air.  One can even see boost pump low
>pressure lights come on in real airplanes, during steep turns.

I think it is called the 1g aileron roll. You lose quite a bit of
altitude while maintaining that all important 1g throughout the 
roll. Tex Johnston did it (twice) in the pre-production version of Boeing 707.
The airplane (Dash-80?) was recently restored and scheduled to take up
permanent residence at the Smithsonian soon.
From: mkk9316@tamsun.tamu.edu (Mark Kuebeler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Formation Flying...
Date: 5 Jan 1993 09:52:46 -0600
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu

In article <1ic2o6INNkeg@news.umbc.edu> cs491122@umbc8.umbc.edu (cs491122) writes:
>I'd like to know how well the Red Baron planes "fly",
>	and how detail the instruments are simulated.

Well, there is an option for "realistic instruments" that only gives you
the instruments that were historically available on a particular plane.
For example, some of the early German planes had no altimeter or airspeed
indicator.

How well the planes handle is sort of subjective.  There is a functional
rudder (the Mission Builder adds rudder pedal support), and energy loss
in turns is modeled fairly well.  Some planes that were prone to spins
will spin if you stall out.  If the wind is strong you need to compensate
for it to stay on course.  Overall the flight models seem very good to
me, much better than Dynamix's Aces of the Pacific. 

>I also would like to know if the game has good enough
>	visual feedback that enables one to keep oneself
>	in the formation without resorting to some auto game switch.
>

The out of cockpit views consist of front, rear, left, right, straight up
and straight down.  There is also an external view that you can use to pan
around in all directions.  The views are adequate for staying in formation,
and the graphic rendering of the planes is excellent.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators