HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sml@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (Steven Law)
Subject: Re: Light Weight Back Packing?
Organization: Australian Artificial Intelligence Institute
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:11:19 GMT

I have done a couple of such walks. On an overnight walk I have taken:

1 set of clothes, mostly worn all the time, jacket tied around waist when warm.
1 set of waterproofs.
2 lunches, 1 breakfast, 1 dinner + snacks.
1 stove full of fuel to save carrying a fuel bottle.
1 water bottle.
Camera around neck.
1 sleeping bag. (What no Thermarest? I must have been tougher in those days!)
1 tent fly, poles and pegs.
1 day pack, with tent strapped to outside.
All up weight < 10lbs I think.

I've also done this with a close friend a couple of times. Then we shared the
stove, tent fly and sleeping bag (unzipped like a doona) and carried
Thermarests! It's easier in summer when you don't have to carry lots of
warm clothes.

Using a day pack with stuff strapped to the outside saves weight. My regular
backpack weighs 2kg, a day pack weighs a few hundred grams.

You can also cover good distances without straining your self and because
you only need light footwear.

For emergencies we carried lost of common sense :-)

Steve
From: price@helios.unl.edu (Chad  Price)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Info on Whisper Lite Stoves
Date: 21 Jan 1993 21:28:40 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.unl.edu

jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece) writes:

>Why kerosene?  It's far more available in the third world than white 
>gasoline (naptha), 

I'm afraid I wouldn't qualify Britain and Continental Europe or New Zealand and
Australia as "third world". Probably more accurate would be to say that the
ready avaliablity of "white gas" is unique to North America, and elsewhere it
may be either hard to get or unavailable.

>and its lower volatility means a lower risk of your face 
>getting burned off or your gear burned up.  It used to be a lot cheaper than
>white gasoline.  The lower volatility also means spills won't evaporate and 
>you have to do a better job priming.  Most people loath the smell, but
>for me it brings back childhood memories of Grandma's farm....

I agree on the lower volatility. Its safer to use if there is any tendency for
the equipment or the user to malfunction; although its BTU content seems to be
about as good as white gas. Many kerosene camping stoves can boil water as fast
or faster than white gas stoves of equivalent size.
--
chad
price@helios.unl.edu
cprice@molecular.unmc.edu
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Boot Review wanted
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 13:18:31 EST(-0500)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Distribution: na
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

sguha@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Saumyen Guha) writes:
> randrew@teton.UVic.CA (Rex  Andrew) writes:
> >I was told that there was a review of such boots in an outdoor magazine
> >"not too long ago" -- which I take to be sometime in '92. Does anybody
> See the April'92 issue of the 'Backpackers'. It lists not only boots,
> but also, tents,backpacks and stoves.

The May 1992 issue of _Backpacker_ has a review of ten medium-weight boots. 
It's a full review, not just a product listing.  This is probably the
referenced review.  They thought the majority were junk.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc!blkhole!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: do you want a new group -- rec.camping?
Date: 22 Jan 93 06:29:24 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

>In article <RIGG.93Jan19112702@osnome.che.wisc.edu>
rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg) writes:
>>rec.outdoors heading. 

In article <1993Jan20.155754.2296@nimbus.com> jimiii@nimbus.com
(Jim Warford) writes:
>As opposed to rec.indoors?

I remember when Life magazine has a special outdoors issue in 1970
(including an article on climbing), it engendered an article from a very
irrate woman who complained and insisted on an equivalent special issue
on the Great American Indoors.  That's the way our society raises many.

So sure, why not?  8^)

In the end, I doubt it would make much difference.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: A-word and Hemmingway
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:14:24 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1993Jan22.122140.21507@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>
>So if you think that playing race car driver is more physical than
>playing marbles thats fine with me - just remember I can take marbles
>and play somewhere else.

The fact that you climb ice, Allen, demonstrates you've already lost
your marbles.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt)
Subject: Re: Bull Fighting (was A-word)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:32:43 GMT

In article <Jan25.194427.24992@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>In article <11175@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:
>>
>>Actually, I would have a hard time calling bull fighting a sport.
>>More a spectacle, a very obscene spectacle.  What it amounts to is
>
>What would you nominate as the most injurious sport?  I say rodeo riding.

Well, in almost 20 years of climbing, I have never had a serious
injury. A few scrapes, and considerable loss of face at times, but
nothing serious. Some close calls (getting an arm dinged by a rock
halfway up a 700' free hanging rope was close...but then that's caving),
but really, it has been pretty safe.

I also grew up on horses, and rodeoed for a few years in high school.
Barebacks, saddle broncs, and some pitiful team roping. Two concussions,
a cracked rib (complete with horseshoe print), and a nasty sprain which
put an arm in a brace for a few months. That from some infrequent 
rodeoing during the summer - those who go at it full time learn to 
live with injuries. And yes, the stock do get hurt on occasion. 
But given that they represent a pretty large investment, the contractors
tend to work to make sure they are protected.

I don't know how various sports stack up statistically regarding injuries.
I'd imagine mountaineering has a pretty high fatality rate, as would
cave diving. Football seems to produce a lot of blown knees and separated
shoulders. Sport climbing has its share of tendonitis and joint problems.
Still, I don't think I can think of any activity which sees its 
athletes play with worse injuries than rodeo. Riding with broken arms
and jaws is not uncommon, and I've known of people soaking of body casts
(broken back) in order to compete in the National Finals. Still, I am
always amazed at the low fatality rate in the rough events, given the
hooves stomping down on all sides of fallen riders (my sister once 
dated a guy who had a hoof scar which started under one ear, slid down
under his jaw, across his throat, and off his shoulder...fun times!)

>(Does rodeo belong in .indoor or .outdoor?)
Depends whether the carpet has just been cleaned.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Twit twit twit                                                           
Jug jug jug jug jug jug                                                   
So rudely forc'd.                                                         
Tereu                                                                     
  --T.S. Eliot, The Waste Land                                            
..............................................................................
s.w. marlatt, <><  &  *(:-)               Prov. 25.2
University of Colorado:                   marlatt@spot.Colorado.edu  492-3939
National Center for Atmospheric Research: marlatt@neit.cgd.ucar.edu  497-1669
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: how do you feel about a group of 1!
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:08:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <11227@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:
In article <1993Jan28.142114.15883@scott.skidmore.edu> pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel) writes:
>On the flip side... how about a group of 1?  I started backpacking
>last year (after a 10 year interruption), and enjoy going by myself.
>Now I get flack from aunts, friends, even wife, about how dangerous
>this is.. I *should* go with at least one other.  So,... how many
>people backpack by themselves?  What's the advice on this?

As a search and rescue volunteer my advice is, if you like it and
know what you are about, go ahead.  With a bit of experience and
common sense it's safer than crossing certain streets I could name
during rush hour.  (I will add that beginners should not go alone
however).  Just follow a few reasonable safety rules:

1.  Let somebody know where you are going and when you will return.
Be sure they know who to call if something does happen.  If your
plans are uncertain at the outset try to leave a list of routes with
the idea that you will be on one of them but aren't certain which.

2.  Stay well within your limits.  You may have less chance of an
accident on that low 5th class rock than while crossing the street
but an ambulance will not appear in the backcountry like it would on 
the street.  "Push the envelope" only when the unexpected will not 
lead to disaster.

3.  Be prepared for the unexpected.  This includes possible weather
changes, accidents, and "temporary confusion" when the trail isn't
where you thought it was.

4.  If you change your plans in the middle of a hike, try your best
to let somebody know.  You might even leave a note at a planned
campsite so if a search is started searchers have a clue about your
change of plans.

This will not make you as safe as doing the same activities in a
group of competent people.  There is some risk involved.  However if
the enjoyment is worth the risk, have at it.  I don't think we're
here to hide under the bed all our lives, we ought to enjoy life.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: hsu@pix.com (Dagwood Splits the Atom)
Subject: Re: Light Weight Back Packing?
Organization: Pix -- The company with no adult supervision.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 05:35:52 GMT

In article <1k4l4sINNp6p@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> dickman@ecst.csuchico.edu (Bob Dickman) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.173146.10159@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> bohack@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (edward.e.harstead) writes:
>>>1 tent fly, poles and pegs.
>>A bivy sack saves more weight.
>>I agree that the Thermarest is a must.  This is supposed to be
>>enjoyable, right?
>Or for perfectly dry conditions, an army surplus poncho liner makes for a 
>warm covering.

Much as I love my Thermarest, I should add that if you can stand the
bulk, the Deluxe RidgeRest is lighter, just about as comfortable,
indifferent to punctures, and eliminates the need for a groundsheet if
you're in a dry environment.  Admittedly, it rolls into something about
the size of a 500lb bomb, but the full-length model (well, okay, the
deluxe is only available full-length) is still slightly lighter than my
3/4-length Ultralight.  I think it's feels warmer too, but I haven't
tried one in windy conditions.

-dave

-- 
Dave Hsu                           <hsu@pix.com> -or- <hsu@eng.umd.edu>
Caffeine and Salsa Czar            Have you been mentally contaminated?
Pix Technologies Corporation       Would you like to be?
Have nerds, will telnet.           Join Unix Lepers(tm) today!
From: dvost+@pitt.edu (David Voigt)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: U.S. Geo. Survey Topo. Maps
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:20:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: dvost@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu

I am interested in getting some topo. maps for areas in western PA.
Does anyone have the address around ?  Also, does anyone know an
approximate cost for a map, or how long the process takes?

Reply via email if possible.
Dave

dvost+@pitt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jon@unislc.uucp (Jon Bork)
Subject: Re: Heavy Weight Backpacking (was Re: Light Weight Back Packing)
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:58:42 GMT

From article <1k6ol1$bl3@agate.berkeley.edu>, by ho@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Kinson Ho):
> 
> What are the unusual (and RARELY USED) items people carry when they
> go *heavy* weight backpacking?  
> 
I met a guy in New Zealand on one of the tracks that was busy
carrying his mountain bike and had for most of the hike!
-- 

Jon Bork
Phone: (801) 594-5508	Fax: (801) 594-6708	OFIS:	JEB1/CORP
internet: jon@unislc.slc.unisys.com  -or- unislc!jon
From: gladug@armory.enet.dec.com (ger)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Seeking 1-person tent
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:53:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: engage.1993Jan26.160650.16592
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


I use a Sierra Designs 1-person tent called a Divine Light. It's primarily
a mesh tent with the bottom 6 inches coated nylon. It has a large rainfly
with a vestibule to store boots and cook under. It can withstand extreme
winds but rain tends to bounce up under the tarp when blowing in under
these conditions (ie when the rain is horizontal). But that's an extreme
case. 

It packs very small and fits in the bottom compartment of my I-frame even
with my sleeping bag. Stuff size is like 5"x14" if you use their stuff
sack but I use a larger sack. Weighs 2.2 lbs. I paid $150 on sale in 1986
but I don't know what they go for now. The newer models may not have a
vestibule.

Gerry
From: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: do you want a new group -- rec.camping?
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:56:56 GMT
Reply-To: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <RIGG.93Jan19112702@osnome.che.wisc.edu> rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg) writes:
>In article <1993Jan19.152726.9265@netcom.com> derich@netcom.com (Scott A. Steinbrink) writes:
>
>   I'd like to form a new newsgroup - focusing only on camping.
>   Camping supplies, equipment, sites, activites, cooking, etc can
>   be included.
>
>    Do you think it's a wise idea for rec.camping to be formed?

Did you intend that this group be mutually exclusive with rec.backcountry?

That is, would this cover camping in big motor homes where you do not 
need to hike into the wilderness?

A charter that guarantees lots of cross posting will not solve your 
perceived problem, which must be that the camping issues of concern 
to you are lost in a wash of politics and hiking posts.  If the load 
on this group is too heavy -- and it does not seem that bad -- it 
would make more sense to create r.b.camping and r.b.backpacking 
plus r.b.misc to handle the political discussions.

But without a proposed charter and a call for discussion as per the 
group creation rules, and discussion is pretty pointless. 

>Actually, I think we should completely restructure many groups related
>to rec.backcountry.  A new group rec.outdoors.fishing was created
>about a 6 months ago.  Rec.backcountry should be moved over to the
>rec.outdoors heading.  A new set of groups might include
>
>rec.outdoors.misc (formerly rec.backcountry)
>rec.outdoors.camping (as proposed in the original post)
>rec.outdoors.hunting (formerly rec.hunting)
>rec.outdoors.climbing (formerly rec.climbing)
>rec.outdoors.boats (formerly rec.boats)
>...

A vote on this would fail. 

--
J. A. Carr                                    |  "The New Frontier of which I  
jac@gw.scri.fsu.edu                           |  speak is not a set of promises
Florida State University  B-186               |  -- it is a set of challenges."
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute |   John F. Kennedy (15 July 60)
From: graham@cs.montana.edu (Jonathan Graham)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Recommendation: a place to go with my father?
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:05:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: coe.1993Jan26.180517.29987
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, MSU, Bozeman Mt 59717

In article <1993Jan24.200026.1840@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> abl9y@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Andrew B. Lederman) writes:
>After years of claiming that I am crazy, my father hsa decided that he wants 
>to share a wilderness experience with me.  We are planning to go somewhere
>in mid-July, but don't know where to go.  He could probably not deal with 
>carrying a heavy pack for a long time, and canoeing is out, so we are loking
>for a good place to day trip from a lodge or something.  Anywhere in the U.S.
>is fair game, but we'd prefer someplace in the Rockies.  Any suggestions,    
>experiences would be  a great help.  I have to make this a good trip!
>


		I would recommend any of the various lookout towers that you
can rent in the Kootenai Ntl Forest (Northwest corner of Montana).
These are old lookout towers that aren't used by the Forest Service
anymore but are maintained for public use.  The hike in is usally
5-8 miles and the lookouts usually run around $15/night.  Mail me
if you would like some more info.

-Jon


Jonathan Graham 				     Computer Science
------------------------------------------------------------------------
graham@cs.montana.edu			->	     Montana State University
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am so hip I can't see over my pelvis"          -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Light Weight Back Packing?
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:30:29 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1993Jan27.194153.7191@butch.lmsc.lockheed.com> tilley@sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com writes:
>In article <Jan27.165956.74635@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>
>>The only contingencies I ever seem to have problems with are noisy
>>obnoxious people, and rangers telling me I can't camp/bivy where I want.
>
>Oh?  I remember your post (several months ago) about your stove dying,
>leading to the dire emergency of a coffee-free day!   :-) :-)

Precisely.  Had you read my post more carefully, you'd have
realized that the coffee incident was not a contingency as defined:

>>What contingencies?  If something goes wrong, walk back to the car.

... in other words, walk back to the car and go for coffee.

Still, you are right.  Had I been deeper in the wilderness this might
have been a real disaster.  Woe to the unsuspecting novice who heeds my
flippant advice. 

But on the other hand coffee is not a matter of contingency planning at all.
It is a basic necessity, like, food, water, shelter, donuts, and beer.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: deer whistles
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:43:24 GMT
Reply-To: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <93019.141656DCW1@psuvm.psu.edu> DCW1@psuvm.psu.edu (Denise Wagner) writes:
>
>Has anyone ever tried the ultrasonic whistles available to keep deer from runni
>ng  in front of your car?  I suspect they are something like the mosquito repel
>lers that don't work.

My dad and my brother both have them, and neither have hit a deer yet! 
They both live in a county where more than a thousand deer were hit 
last year, but there are hundreds of thousands of cars so who knows 
what the odds are.  I will let you know if either of them ever hits 
a deer, since only a counter example will really answer your question. 

I can tell you that even the manufacturer does not claim that they 
work at less than highway speeds.  They would be of no help in the 
wooded neighborhoods around here where there are a lot of deer but 
you are only traveling 30-35 mph.  

--
J. A. Carr                                    |  "The New Frontier of which I  
jac@gw.scri.fsu.edu                           |  speak is not a set of promises
Florida State University  B-186               |  -- it is a set of challenges."
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute |   John F. Kennedy (15 July 60)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Subject: Re: Info on Whisper Lite Stoves
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:03:58 GMT

Along a not-so-similar line...

I have heard that unleaded will work in a white gas stove, but the reason
that stove manufacturers don't recommend it is that white gas (ie Coleman)
is more finely filtered, and you run the risk of clogging your stove using
unleaded.

I have an Optimus 8R I picked up for $1 (yes, that's right), that has a
built-in cleaning wire.  Could I use unleaded in this stove, and then rely
on the self-cleaning wire for cleaning after clogging?


Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
From: wardp@skyfox
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Ski traverse in Canadian Rockies
Date: 28 JAN 93 03:59:22 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: sask.usask.ca

I am planning to do the traverse from Bow Hut (Banff Nat'l Park) to
Stanley Mitchell Hut (Yoho Nat'l Park) and would like to hear from
anyone who has done it. I've been in from either end but not across
the middle portion. Specifically, I need info. on time (we have 4 days),
avalanche hazards, and suitability of the terrain for people without
extensive telemark experience. We have 3 strong skiers skilled in
glacier travel, but there is the possibility of two additional people
who would be making their first major trip.

Pearse
From: zedel@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Len Zedel)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Tent poles
Date: 28 Jan 93 15:45:20 GMT
Reply-To: zedel@weejordy.physics.mun.ca
Organization: Dept. of Physics, Memorial University

After 10 years of backpacking, I finally lost one of the
poles from my Jansport Mountain Dome.  This raises two 
issues:

1)  Does anybody have a spare section  of  a tent pole
    that would be compatible with my missing section.


2)  My tent uses fibreglas poles which I find heavy and
    somewhat more fragile than the aluminium poles.  Is
    there any source for aluminium replacement poles
    for tents?


Thanks for any information.   Len Zedel
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss)
Subject: Re: deer whistles
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 21:21:42 GMT


I was wondering if there were some sort of deer wistle that
would bring them in to me. That would be great for hunting.
I've tried "Here Deer, Here Deer", but it doesn't work too
well for me.

		Your Furry Friend,

			Mr! Woody
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,news.groups
From: george@windslc.seri.gov (George Scott)
Subject: Re: do you want a new group -- rec.camping?
Reply-To: george@windslc.nrel.gov
Organization: Colorado State Reformatory for Young Hussies and Trollops
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:48:39 GMT

In article <C16ro1.IoA@ms.uky.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
>
>I agree with the proposed new group format!
> rec.outdoors.splunking 
               ^^^^^^^^^
For the discussion of dropping stones into the water?

>and rec.outdoors.repelling might be choices.
                  ^^^^^^^^^
For discussing the relative merits of DEET, Off, 6-12 and citronella candles?


As for the proposed 'outdoors' hierarchy, I think it's totally unneeded.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George N. Scott                         EMAIL: george@nrel.gov
Wind Research Program (formerly SERI)   VOICE: 303-231-7667
National Renewable Energy Laboratory    1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO  80401-3393
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry