From: msb@sq.com (Mark Brader)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.folklore.computers,alt.config
Subject: CFV: comp.society.folklore unmoderation
Followup-To: poster
Date: 23 Nov 1992 18:02:52 -0500
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.uu.net

At the start of November, I wrote in these newsgroups:

| Now, I think alt.folklore.computers has been a pretty successful group,
| and therefore I think it's long past time that it was moved onto Usenet--
| or, if you prefer, into the so-called "7 main hierarchies".  I therefore
| propose that comp.society.folklore be converted to unmoderated, and that
| when this is done, alt.folklore.computers be aliased to it and thus
| cease to exist under that name.

The discussion period has raised a number of alternative possibilities,
the most-discussed being "Do nothing; it is not an improvement to move a
group out of alt.*".  I now call for votes of Yes or No ON THE ABOVE
PROPOSAL.  If you prefer some other action, vote No; there can be further
discussion on other proposals if this one fails.

The group-creation criteria will be applied: the Yes votes must outnumber
the No votes by a difference of 100 *and* by a factor of 2 for the proposal
to pass.

      To vote Yes, mail a message to:   vote-yes@sq.com
      To vote No,  mail a message to:    vote-no@sq.com

A daemon will do its inhuman best to acknowledge all votes.  I should note
that a small number of sites have in the past reported trouble reaching
addresses ending in @sq.com; if this is still a problem for anyone, try
@sq.sq.com as a second choice.  We also accept email by UUCP from utzoo
and (with lower connectivity) uunet; for UUCP the sitename is simply sq,
e.g. ...!utzoo!sq!vote-no.

The voting period runs from Monday, November 23, to Monday, December 14,
1992, inclusive, reckoned by the local time in Toronto.  One repeat-CFV
will be issued on or about December 2.

Here is the full text of the RFD posting quoted above.

| In the spring of 1991, comp.society.folklore was created; the intention
| was that it would be a moderated Usenet newsgroup with a similar charter
| to that of alt.folklore.computers.  Comp.society.folklore experienced
| severe technical problems at the outset, which were never diagnosed
| satisfactorily.  Some articles were posted to it by the moderator, Eric
| Raymond, but they generally did not make it to Usenet at large.
| 
| Eric tells me that in fact only half a dozen articles were ever submitted
| to comp.society.folklore.  It seems likely that the propagation problem
| was partially responsible for this; no articles means no followups.
| But in addition, many users simply prefer the faster interaction pos-
| sible in an unmoderated newsgroup to the orderliness possible in a
| moderated one.  And with the existing channel of alt.folklore.computers
| in operation, there was little incentive to debug comp.society.folklore.
| 
| Now, I think alt.folklore.computers has been a pretty successful group,
| and therefore I think it's long past time that it was moved onto Usenet--
| or, if you prefer, into the so-called "7 main hierarchies".  I therefore
| propose that comp.society.folklore be converted to unmoderated, and that
| when this is done, alt.folklore.computers be aliased to it and thus
| cease to exist under that name.
| 
| I proposed this informally a couple of months ago, and drew a smattering
| of responses covering a variety of opinions.  It should be noted in
| particular that Eric Raymond had no objection (and that he's going to
| see a copy of this posting); this is not a case of "hostile demoderation".
| 
| I am submitting this to news.announce.newgroups because I judge that
| the most appropriate procedure, if this proposal is to be implemented,
| would be the standard procedure for creating a new group.  This is not
| necessarily intended to be a precedent for other demoderations; this
| one is not hostile and the moderated group has no traffic.  I would ask
| Dave Lawrence (the news.announce.newgroups moderator) to comment on the
| procedure in a Moderator's Note.
| 
| [[ Moderation's Note: we've done such things before, and I really
| don't mind it furthering precedent, especially in lieu of a consenting
| moderator. -- tale ]]
| 
| Followups are directed to news.groups.  My intention is to NOT take part
| in any discussion there myself; I reckon the proposal can stand or fall
| on its own merits or deficiencies, which will no doubt be aptly described
| by others.  I plan to call a vote in mid to late November.
-- 
Mark Brader		   "How diabolically clever: a straightforward message!
SoftQuad Inc., Toronto		Only a genius could have thought of that."
utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com		-- Maxwell Smart (Agent 86)
This article is in the public domain.
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc,alt.lang.basic