From: sweet@ug.cs.dal.ca (garth r sweet)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: troi
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:03:09 GMT
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Dean Adams (dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote:
> 
> sweet@ug.cs.dal.ca (garth r sweet) writes:
>  >Dean Adams (dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote:
> 
>  >"Growth potential"..... Maybe she packed on a few pounds, but that's
>  >the only growth I ever seen from Sirtis. 
> 
> Come on, what show have you been watching?  You have it totally backwards.
> Marina started out with a few extra pounds, but she has lost a LOT of weight
> since then.  She is now probably at about her idea weight.  I don't know
> what "pounds" you could be seeing...
> 

	I never said specifically that I noticed ANY extra pounds on
Sirtis, but if your looking for some area of growth then it's certainly
not in acting ability (IMHO) so I figured her figure was the next logical
area. 

>  >The Troi character is totally useless,
> Blah, blah, blah...  That line is more tired and cliche than ANYTHING
> Troi has *ever* said.  It really amounts to the mark of someone with 
> a totally closed mind when it comes to this character.
> 

	Closed Mind! If you think Troi serves any essential role on TNG
then your mind but be so open that on windy days you get a nice hum 
between yours ears! <Joke> The character Troi never seems to provide
any especially useful information and in fact in the few situations where
she could serve to provide something useful, she's always got that 
handy Troi line of "I can't seem to read anything Captain". A ship is
certainly going to have councilers in the 24th century, probably
many (which brings up another topic I'll leave for some other debate),
but one on the bridge, why? And one that can't do anything but trumpet
off what should be obvious to even Geordi without a visor? If the TNG
writers want a counciler, give her the lines like "He seems reasonable
captain, but be aware he may be bargaining in poor faith, I'd approach
him with some caution. It may come to blows if he doesn't get his way"
(excuse my poor writing style) instead of the all too expected "He's 
hiding something captain" or "I can't tell anthing for sure". Today's
FBI type psyhcologists can give a description of a person just from the
way they write a bomb threat that has a reasonable degree of reliability,
plus they can usually derive a basic personality profile for the person
too. In the 24th century and with a empath for counciler, I'm sure that
after a 10 minute dialouge with the alien, Troi should be able to fathom
more of the character then she does. I'm surprised the computer can't.

>  >I'd like to see a little more of this exploration of space they keep
>  >talking about instead of the current trend of exploration of deep 
>  >emotional issues. 
>
> Sorry, guy...  Star Trek is about *characters* and the "human condition".
> If thats not for you, then might I suggest the aforementioned Space Rangers?
>

	Agreed, but the I always understood it to be the human condition
as it is under the backdrop of space exploration. These silly emotional
issue episodes certainly have nothing to do with that space exploration
backdrop and would seem more at home in the last 5 minutes of a sit-com
turned sappy ending or on 30 something. I think I speak for *most* TNG
watchers when I say that I usually watch with less then any real
intrest at these emotional issues show. TNG writers, hear my cry! 
"Bring back the salt sucker creature from TOS!" <joke!!!!!!!> 

> 
>  >Her good/poor looks have nothing to do with why I and others would like 
>  >to see Troi gone
> I seem to see almost more "body" references from the rabid Troi-haters than 
> from the people who LIKE her.  This obsession with a non-existant "weight" 
> problem is a very good example.
> 

	I still stand by my claim, while I find Troi/Sirtis a real porker
and down right butt ugly, it's the Troi character that I dislike. I may
use my dislike of her looks to insult her, but it's my dislike of her
character that makes me want her off the show. As a matter of fact, it'd
be nice in TNG or DS9 had a male or female main character who was none too
gorgeous, IE overwieght, etc. Just make sure you give them some lines, 
because "a good body does not a good character make". Feel free to call 
me shallow for using her looks against her. I'll accept that, but don't
try to say that's the main/only reason I want Troi off the show because
it isn't.

>  >Now my choice for a good Startrek women to lust over is Dax, at least she 
>  >doesn't have to have the transporter beam set to "wide spread" to get her 
>  >hips down to the surface. :-)
> Whoops!  There you go again...<heh>   So you hate the character 
> because of her skeletal structure?  Oh, yea... that makes sense.
> 

	See above for rebuttle (is that the spelling???). But let me add
that at this point I do like Dax primarly for her good looks. If it were
not for her good looks, I'd still 'like' her but I wouldn't be such a
steadfast Dax supporter. Again shallowness shines, but whether or not I
continue to like Dax will be based on performance (dialoge/acting), her
looks just give her an edge with me.

>  >As for Space Rangers I still haven't seen it yet, but I always
>  >liked Battlestar Galatica so who knows if I'll like it.
> In that case i'd say you should really *LOVE* Space Rangers!
> 

	Goody! Good acting is great, good FX help too, but I must admit
I can watch pure drivel if it's action packed! :-) BTW what are you
feelings on Dr. Who?

>  > You sound like a *shutter* Wesley lover to me! 
> Ugh, excuse me while I hurl!!  Perhaps you should open your "shutter" and 
> consult with Mr. Logic before making comments like that?   BTW, it just so
> happens that I have seen many a troi-hater who DO seem to like that weasley
> quite a bit.  Oh, well. I've never understood anyone preferring a ridiculous
> and repulsive teenager, over an attractive and intelligent woman like Troi,
> but that's just me I guess...  :->
> 

	Well we seem to agree to disagree on Troi, and agree to dislike
Wesley. At least we have some things in common. I'll retract my Wesley
line, as falsly accusing someone of Wesleyism is a pretty serious crime
in my book. :-) Keep your stick on the ice.

+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
+ Name : Garth Sweet        + if (you(love(to(C)))) {                      +
+ email: sweet@ug.cs.dal.ca +   honk(loud);                                +
+ phone: 902-865-8987       + }                                            +
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current