HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Necronomicon <-- Legit?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:57:16 GMT

cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low) writes:

>Daniel Andrew Osher writes:

>>>Would it be too much to ask if other readers here would share at least the
>>>names of their favorite grimoires?  
>>
>>
>>For me, that's easy. I don't have any. I tend to take my working methods from 
>>several available sources. 
>>Thought the one I am currently reading is Liber Null with it's companion
>>Psychonaut.

>It's happening again.....I thought it was widely accepted that the Liber
>Null was fabricated by the English author Pete Carroll circa 1980. I don't
>see any harm in using works of fiction as magical grimoires, but I prefer
>something with a pedigree - the Necronomicon for example. 

>Colin

> 

Colin, the request is merely for grimoires, it doesn't state when they had to
have been written by.  _LN&P_ is clearly a grimoire, though a recent one.  For
an even more recent one, there is _Deryni Magic: A Grimoire_ by Katherine
Kurtz.  It even says that it's a grimoire! :-)  BTW, are you trying to imply
that _LN&P_ is fiction?!?

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
From: briansp@css.itd.umich.edu (Brian Spolarich)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Magical Power(book)
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:21:06 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services

In article <IeXfzPK00awLM21EQp@andrew.cmu.edu> William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>        (c) Reality is in here, is mental, and in the ultimate is so
>>        connected to the process of perception, that not only are our
>>        attempts to come up with a description doomed to failure, but
>>        in fact the reality and the description are so linked that
>>        any attempt to describe changes the reality....
>
>The problem I have with this is that I used to believe that perception
>changed reality.
>
>It didn't work.
>
>I tried over and over, and even now have a similar belief, but it was
>never supported by reality.
>
>
>And don't try that 'well, if your beliefs didn't change reality, you
>didn't believe enough!'
>I felt I believed strongly, and such an assertion is quite circular.
>(It's true because it's true)
>
>-Me

   It is not enough to simply believe a thing, like for example "I am 
going to not lack for money."  If you don't also examine the beliefs
that block you, like "money is corrupt" or any of the other associated
baggage, then you will be shooting yourself in the foot.  Try examining
your "root beliefs" and I think you will be surprised at what you find.
   I strongly believe that our beliefs directly affect our experiences,
and have found it to work in my personal life.
   -brian

________________________________________________________________________
Brian W. Spolarich			"I never understand what it is
1029 Vaughn St.				about all of these vegetarians
Ann Arbor, MI 48104			trying to make vegetables taste 
(313) 747-8473				like meat.  I mean, do priests
Internet: brian.spolarich@umich.edu	buy a lot of blow-up dolls?"
Bitnet:  USERW292@UMICHUM			-Kyle Baker
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Abramelin oil
Distribution: world
Date: 11 Aug 92 22:43:57 PDT
Organization: Shades of Reality BBS - Medford, Oregon

In a message dated Tue 11 Aug 92  5:10, jasonp@tiger1.prime.com (Jason
Pascucci) wrote:

 JP> Gar!

>                         1 dram  is   $4.00
>                         1 ounce is  $26.00

 JP> I could make a gallon of the stuff for about $10. (well,
 JP> not quite, but pretty darn close) I'm fairly unimpressed. 

I would be interested to find out how or where you are getting your Myrrh
oil, since AUTHENTIC Myrrh oil runs about $300 a pound.

Also, Galangal oil (the real stuff, not some synthetic compilation of
perfumes) is about $150 a pound.  About the only cheap thing in Abramelin
is the cinnamon oil and the olive oil.

I have been in the import/export game for quite some time.  I would love to
know your sources for oils.  (I am, of course, assuming you are not using
synthetics).

 JP> The only problem I had was it tended to seperate if left 
 JP> for a while. I probably didn't have the suspension quite 
 JP> correct, I was going by feel (intuition) rather than by exact 
 JP> measurement. 

Crowley had stated that the color of properly blended Abramelin oil should
be like honey... a deep amber color.  If you use exact measurement, the
color will depend on where the oils came from:  i.e., cinnamon from Madras
is very bright yellow, while Spanish cinnamon is very dark.  Myrrh is
almost solid black when it comes from India, but from Pakistan chocolate
like.

Love is the Law.
Gerald

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Subject: Magickal Ecology (was Re: Merlin Tarot Workshop)
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:41:59 GMT

In article <JOSHUA.92Aug17143521@bailey.cpac.washington.edu> joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
>*no one* gave a shit about the 'environment'
>before the late 18th century.

It is the opinion of a lot of students of shamanic religions that one of the
underlying structures of the taboos and various of some cultures is to
keep the local ecology running.  Almost every culture has a rule equivalent
to 'don't shit in the water supply.'  Now, this is Marvin Harris style
anthro...  I don't necessarily believe as a point of faith that Jews 
don't eat oysters because they were too easily spoiled in the mediterranean
climate...

But anyway, I do kind of believe that this was shamanic ecological 
magick.  It did seem to work, anyway, in a lot of cultures...

Shava
-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu
/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary 
    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */
From: jon@cyclone.MITRE.org (J. E. Shum)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Necronomicon <-- Legit?
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:18:56 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corp. McLean Va.
Originator: jon@cyclone


In article <AeY3bpC00Vox1FS10r@andrew.cmu.edu>, William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Colin Low writes:
> >It's happening again.....I thought it was widely accepted that the Liber
> >Null was fabricated by the English author Pete Carroll circa 1980. I don't
> >see any harm in using works of fiction as magical grimoires, but I prefer
> >something with a pedigree - the Necronomicon for example. 
> 
> heh... That's funny, most people I know think that Lovecraft invented
> the Necronomicon, which was then made up a few times to look good. I
> would regard your statement as a clever joke, but I know better. Sigh.
> 
> -Me
> [Pooh Bear incarnate.]
> <B1 c+ f+ w g+ k+ s+ r- e+ p>

It must be a joke.  Else why would Colin refuse to answer my questions
about his sources?  I've sent him email and posted inquiries every time
I've seen this stupid thread (the NECRONOMICON IS R E A L !, etc) and
he doesn't even deign to respond in any fashion.  Nice joke, Colin.  But
you are guilty of unfair treatment of genuine seekers and researchers
whose only sin is ignorance.
-- 
<jon@mitre.org>|--------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------| Libertarian Party  
  Andre Marrou    Nancy Lord for  | 1528 Pennsylvania Avenue SE  (202)543-1988
  for President   Vice-President  | Washington, DC 20003         (800)682-1776
From: friday@netcom.com (Carol Anne Ogdin)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP)
Date: 21 Aug 92 05:35:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <199208202135.AA15944@intercon.com> amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker) writes:
> (folks at my last job dubbed me 
>"the information vampire" :)).


>Peace,

>Amanda Walker

May I address you with the honorific, "Madame Vampire?"   :-)

-- 
---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---
    - Friday -                   "If a miracle happens in your vicinity--
      friday@well.sf.ca.us                            take credit for it!"
      (Carol Anne Ogdin)
From: cward@Think.COM (Christopher)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Unity
Date: 18 Aug 1992 15:51:17 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: custard.think.com

In article <JOSHUA.92Aug15022246@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>, joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Aug14.231337.17236@samba.oit.unc.edu> eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu 
|> (Edward M. Averett) writes:
|> >  I Don't think that we need to stop our discussions with Aleister though, 
|> >  it's merely a good point of beginning.  But whether you "like" him or not, 
|> >  (kind of a silly question in my perspective), trying to discuss *magick* 
|> >  and ignoring Crowley is kind of like discussing *psychotherapy* and ignoring
|> >  Freud and Jung.  You're gonna miss out on a lot. 
|> 
|> the comparison I usually use is discussing physics while ignoring einstein,
|> though (on thought) newton might be more exact.

The problem here is that magic(k) is not exact, certainly not to the level of
general physics.  The analogy of talking of psychology but ignoring Freud
is very much akin to discussing magic(k) but ignoring Crowley.  Neither man
"discovered" the field but are acknowledged early pioneers.  The problem
I have with both is the warped personalities of the men so color their writings
that they can only be interesting historical footnotes.  The less said the
better.  In a highly personal and subjective field like psychology or magic(k),
the personalities of the writers play a much more important role than in more
rigorous fields like physics.

I am quite pleased that much work has been done by more stable writers since
the writings and work of these two pioneers.  I much prefer to ponder these
new works rather than the plodding "classic originals".  I should mention that
I specifically left Jung out of the group.  Though much of Jung's work is
a difficult read, it merely requires translation not tempering.

-Christopher
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Belief Systems 
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
	<Bt8r5y.K4F@acsu.buffalo.edu> <1992Aug20.001016.7585@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 04:58:21 GMT


In article <1992Aug20.001016.7585@samba.oit.unc.edu> eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu 
(Edward M. Averett) writes:

>   I'm not sure I believe in random occurances or probability, except as a 
>   generally useful mathematical model.  In the real world, if you flip a 
>   coin 999 times and it comes up Tails every time, then there is NOT a 50%
>   probability that it will come up Tails the next time.  It's either gonna
>   be strongly in favor of either heads or tails, but "the odds are" that 
>   it ain't 50%. 

say what? unless the coin has two tails or has been fiddled with
some other way (can you load coins like you load dice?) the odds
that it will be either heads or tails *are* 50%. 

josh
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Necronomicon <-- Legit?
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 19:45:41 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA


	To drive another nail into the Necronomicon's coffin (as if it were
needed) one might recall that the alleged "author" was called Abdul al
Harazed (that may be slightly wrong - you all know what I mean).  The
"Harazed" part was in fact based on the surname of one of Lovecraft's
relations, I believe it may have been in mother's or grandmother's maiden
name.  He made up the entire name for himself after reading  The Arabian
Nights as a small child, and in fact says so in his writing somewhere.
	The name is a grammatical disaster in Arabic anyway :)

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: angelai@wam.umd.edu (Angela I.)
Subject: Re: Benign magic spells (empathy?)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:25:18 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.204808@cunix4.Prime.COM> jasonp@cunix4.Prime.COM (Jason R. Pascucci) writes:
>In article <4eZ32ai00awQQ2fExy@andrew.cmu.edu>, Nanci Ann Miller <nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> mcmorris@vet.vet.purdue.edu (brandywine) writes:
>> > -brandywine
>> 
>> Out of curiousity, how?  How does one take down the empathic "barriers"
>> that block others' feelings?
>> 
>> Nanci
>
>
>Also like many things, for some people it takes practice, others
>seem to be unable to develop it, and still others it comes
>relatively easy. I've never heard of a person who doesn't 
>have the barriers, but I suspect such a one would be a likely 
>candidate for a mental institution. Unfortunate, but likely. 
>
>Perhaps a path to dropping these barriers is deliberate
>empathic experiments. Pick a person who you judge as having
>'strong emotions', and spend some time with them, talking. 
>Block out their 'obvious' projection of emotion, such as 
>vocal tonality, facial features, posture, etc, and 
>concentrate on what's left. 

Actually, one that works even better is to chat with people on 
the Net.  All you get to go on is their words, typing, and a few
smileys, but you can still pick up a heck of a lot...  But then
I can speak from the perspective of a "newbie" to the world of
empathic abilities...  I think just realizing that it's there
and realizing that you can do it (become aware of then learn to sort
through all of the mental messages that come barraging into your
mind all the time, every day) is all there is to it.  The hardest
part I think is learning which messages to listen to and which
ones to NOT discount (ie "I think that was what they were thinking,
but maybe I was just imagining it...")

>
>In my studies, (to avoid any commentary, I will state that these
>are wholly unscientific, even if they aren't), I have
>found that there is a pretty definate 'range' to unfocused
>empathic 'projections', if you will. So, a Guns and
>Roses concert may be little more powerful then a group
>of 20 bible students sitting in a room. Equally, one person

Perhaps you have never been at a bible study then! :)  At least at
a concert, most people are thinking roughly "cheerfully," and they're
not dealing with their raging internal conflicts. :)  The most difficult 
situation I tend to encounter is funerals of people you care about:  trying 
to deal with your own emotions, plus the grief of everyone around you,
plus if you pick up any of your departed friend's feelings....  It
becomes a test of your ability to distance yourself from it (ie these
are the feelings of these people; even though I'm feeling it too, I know
it does not come from me and it does not have to wrench my emotional
energy....)

There are other considerations, but as Jason so eloquently put it
"I leave that as an exercise for the student."  (I already deleted
that line so I hope that's the right wording. :) )  Just wanted to
include my own personal $.02, for what it's worth. :)
From: cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Necronomicon <-- Legit?
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:06:19 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.

J. E. Shum writes:

>It must be a joke.  Else why would Colin refuse to answer my questions
>about his sources?  I've sent him email and posted inquiries every time
>I've seen this stupid thread (the NECRONOMICON IS R E A L !, etc) and
>he doesn't even deign to respond in any fashion.  Nice joke, Colin.  But
>you are guilty of unfair treatment of genuine seekers and researchers
>whose only sin is ignorance.

There has never been any shortage of people on alt.magick who have
attested that the Necronomicon does not exist, and are generally very
quick to point out in the most graphic of terms the innane stupidity
of anyone who thinks otherwise. Some have even provided details which
might appeal to genuine seekers and researchers.

I've always thought this was an unfair way to treat people whose only
shortcoming is their irrational beliefs concerning the physicality of a 
particular book, and I wrote the Necronomicon FAQ with such people in mind. 
I can understand that you feel aggrieved by the lack of tangible references
in the FAQ, but these things take time to cultivate, and I have no doubt
whatsoever that in the fullness of time both the Starry Wisdom Press and
their catalogue will spring into being fully formed like Athena from
the head of Zeus. Until that time you will have to live with some temporal
inconsistency. A simple trick for those who know how to do it.

Colin.
From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: IS THIS REAL?
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:18:10 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1267.726.uupcb@factory.com>, harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy) writes...
>Is this for real?  What I mean is, Is magic for real? DOes it really
>exist? Can a person control the elements, or anything, anything not
>explained by science.  I have always wanted to believe in magic, but
>everything and everyone around me laughs at the idea of the
>supernatural.  I really must know if magic is for real.  I say this
>because in all probability none of you will ever know me, but I dream of
>it(magic).

Yes.. it's for real.                                                                                                
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: New Slopoke Update - With extra bits.
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 05:29:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.115327.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> cigp07@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
>
>Updated list as of: 3 Aug 1992.
>
>INCOMING:
>
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         30982 Aug  5 21:27 aeonpers.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         35420 Aug  5 21:28 alnotes.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         20471 Aug  5 21:28 archer.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         13438 Aug  5 21:28 cacodemo.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         55689 Aug  5 21:28 etemple.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         44254 Aug  5 21:29 firetemp.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110          8031 Aug  5 21:29 firstkey.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110        318955 Aug  5 21:31 gematria.zip
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         13674 Aug  5 21:31 heptagrm.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         27792 Aug  5 21:31 hexrit.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         81707 Aug  5 21:32 initseq.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         20918 Aug  5 21:32 keytwo.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         17773 Aug  5 21:32 lowertem.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110          2506 Aug  5 21:32 packing.lst
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110           839 Aug  5 21:32 paths.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         58257 Aug  5 21:33 sethorus.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110          8179 Aug  5 21:33 temabyss.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110         21956 Aug  5 21:33 theland.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      110          8063 Aug  5 21:33 zround.txt

 If you guys would look at the damn files, it would help! I uploaded these
and EVERYTHING is listed in the packing.lst (the packing list) file. These
are Ben Rowe's Enochian Temple stuff and other things.


Wassail,
Grendel

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Al Billings - Anthropology Undergrad - Admin for the Troth-l Mailing List | 
| SysOp of The Sacred Grove BBS (206)634-1980 -=- mimir@u.washington.edu    |
------------------------------ Cut Here -------------------------------------
begin 644 GRENDEL.PUB
MF58``1%^*@Q":6QL:6YG<RP@06S^`2N`$7JAHA^YG*D:W0:>,_,\N<XL-]7BN
LV+1/'DT4SH3V2$'*(9NAE_,+VB9R.4=@$9R.J1?CL3H!9@HR8+7DD3@%`!$%E
``
end
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From: lyn@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Myself)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Belief Systems
Date: 20 Aug 1992 11:29:07 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:


>In article <1992Aug20.001016.7585@samba.oit.unc.edu> eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu 
>(Edward M. Averett) writes:

>>   I'm not sure I believe in random occurances or probability, except as a 
>>   generally useful mathematical model.  In the real world, if you flip a 
>>   coin 999 times and it comes up Tails every time, then there is NOT a 50%
>>   probability that it will come up Tails the next time.  It's either gonna
>>   be strongly in favor of either heads or tails, but "the odds are" that 
>>   it ain't 50%. 

>say what? unless the coin has two tails or has been fiddled with
>some other way (can you load coins like you load dice?) the odds
>that it will be either heads or tails *are* 50%. 

>josh

I belive his point was that if the coin comes up T 999 times, the odds are
that is HAS been tampered with. And yes, you can load a coin. It is, however
much more difficult than loading a die, because it only has 2 sides and a small
area to work with.

-- 
This was brought to you by Myself(lyn@matt.ksu.ksu.edu) who is all things here.
Head of Synergy Systems, a non-official group of aspiring hackers creating and
distributing software for the common good. Head office:Terra, Sol system. We
Flames accepted-and returned with interest and intelligence compounded.
From: cstollen@meltdown.chi.il.us (Carolyn Stollen)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: "do[ing] stuff" (was Re: Is Magick worth the effort??)
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:49:18 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

God....

is soooo kind that it, o go along with 

Miracles...

provides an expalination to go with it/them

......for those who are more comfortable that way.

      carpe diem.... but dont miss it on the blink.

      (grins to all and kisses to some and hugs around)

.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
cstollen@meltdown.chi.il.us
Citizen of the World.
                            "All is my own Dream."         (TKR)
.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Tell me yours. . . . . . . . . . . 
Newsgroups: alt.magick