HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: skb@ute-cmi.ctcpc.cypress.com (Scott Butler, MN, x5036, (612) 894-6562)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Spin (was Power Volleyball - the ultimate serves)
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:20:36 GMT
Reply-To: skb@ute-cmi.ctcpc.cypress.com
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor Inc.

Let's get one thing strait.  Any ball that has some surface air friction
will move in a predictable maner when there is a significant spin on the
ball in a parellel plane to the direction of the ball.

A ball with top spin will dive. (Ask any tennis player!)
A ball with back spin will sail.  (ie. show less effect of gravity.)
A ball with clockwise spin (parallel plane to ball direction) will move
right (again relative to the plane ...)
A ball with counter-clockwise spin will move left.

The spin that is applied to a bullet as was mentioned before is 
perpendicular to the direction of the bullet.  This is intended to give
the bullet stability, without effecting the trajectory!  If you could
spin a ball the same way as you throw/hit it, the effect would be neutral.

As was also decribed (correctly) in an earlier note, a float serve (or 
a knuckle ball pitch) is attempting to remove predictability of the 
trajectory by removing all spin from a ball.  Small difference in air
currents, air presure and humidity will cause the ball to move in appearently
random directions.  

In the case of a volleyball, a float serve has an added
effect.  The ball surface on impact is pushed out of round.  As the ball
is moving the surface ripples an undulates while returning to it's prefered
shape.  Check out pictures of a ball being spiked, or one being saved where
the ball appears deflated, and you will see just how out of round it can get.
This effect happens so fast that you normally never see it without stop
action photography.  (See stop action photography of an arrow flight for
other interesting "unseen" phenomenon.)

So one reason a float serve is so effective, is that a good serve receiver
can usually detect ball spin and accuratly predict the trajectory.  A jump
serve allows the server to hit the ball harder (faster) without hitting 
the ball out because the starting position is higher allowing for a straiter
trajectory since the net is less of an obsticle.  Serves with top spin can
also be hit harder since the ball will dive into the court.  The faster
the ball is hit, the less time the receiver has to react.

Use other spins, just to keep receivers guessing/hesitating.  If a pitcher
threw the same pitch every time...

Hope this helps.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Butler			 	Telephone : (612) 851-5036   
Cypress Semiconductor Inc.	 	Fax       : (612) 851-5199
2401 E. 86th Street		 	E-Mail    : skb@cypress.com   
Bloomington,MN 55425, USA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: geoff@flash.bellcore.com (Geoffrey Clemm)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: DID YOU OR THE NET TOUCH WHILE BLOCKING?
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:35:21 GMT
	<1992Apr9.202110.11288@athena.mit.edu>
	<1992Apr09.225127.114501@locus.com>
Organization: Bellcore

In article <1992Apr09.225127.114501@locus.com> cjkuo@locus.com (Chengi Jimmy Kuo) writes:
   Ball is ping-pong'ing across the net.  I play a ball that's just come over.
   I play it to one of our guys.  The ref blows the whistle and calls "4".  (Bad
   call.)  He said, at some point, the ball didn't go over.  Then when I try to 
   argue, he cites ref's judgment.  I don't think there's any place for "ref's 
   judgment" there.  I was asking him to ask the person on the other team who 
   directed the ball to me to verify that she was the one who hit it over.

   Essentially, he never saw the play and lost count but he wouldn't let me
   argue it.  I wanted to protest the game.  (He was a bad ref.)

   So, is "4" a ref's judgment call (no blocks involved, no area for confusion
   there)?  All I wanted was "errant whistle."

The ref was correct in classifying this as a ref's judgement call, and
therefore not open to protest.  You cannot protest the ref's judgement
as to what actually happened (no matter how blatantly incorrect that
judgement was) ... you can only protest the implication of those facts.

For example, suppose the ref calls a foul because "you hit the ball before
it has fully crossed the plane of the net".  You can protest that the rules
allow you to hit the ball in this situation.  This protest is legal because you
are not disputing what took place, but rather what the rules say is legal
in this situation.

Cheers,

Geoff
--
geoff@bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: gordon.cheung@spd.analog.com (gordon.cheung@analog.com)
Subject: Power Volleyball - the ultimate serves
Organization: Analog Devices, Norwood MA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 00:23:42 GMT

    I've been reading my 'Power Volleyball' book lately, lot's of
stats and pictures and words. I love the book. In the chapter of
serving, the author suggested that the ultimate serves are:

1. Side-spin serve ( one that curves)
2. Jumping Floater
    
    I can't quite picture how a jumping floater works. I've done it
accidentally here and there, and for me, jumping floater is 
equivelent to 'OUT'. Did anybody actually try this and has some success.

    Then the author pointed out that the rule book does not specify that the
server has to toss his/her own ball. What if a teammate can toss for the 
server? Think of the implications, the jump server can get consistant tosses
from the setter, extra momentum can be gain off the rebound of an incoming toss, 
or ...Hmm ... let me go home and check my rulebook.
-- 
****************************************************************************
 Gordon Cheung  INTERNET: gordon.cheung@analog.com
      7E         UUNET   : uunet!analog.com!gordon.cheung
      7X          MAIL    : 3 Technology Way,Analog Devices.Norwood,MA 02062
****************************************************************************
From: ar2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anthony Russell Rosania)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Overhead setting...
Date: 12 Apr 92 22:04:43 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Freshman, Drama, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


	 I don't have the book but I would like to point out that it ALWAYS
gets sketchy, the other thing is it can get down right unfair. I've seen
refs that would call based on the best setter in the league/pool,
meaning everything that setter did was legal, to a point. The other
thing is at higher and higher levels of play more and more hold is
allowed, at this point if the person " catches" the ball a little bit
but puts up a perfect, beautiful set he will get away with it, it is one
of those he is so good he can get away with it things, it also just
isn't worried about, it's not that important at higher levels (meaning
AA and Olympic, etc., really higher.) my point is the rule book isn't
going to decide for you it has to be a case by case thing.

								Ant
From: taj@hpcuhb.cup.hp.com (Tom Jack)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:17:56 GMT
Subject: Volleyball Doubles Clinic - San Jose, CA
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball

Next week I will host a volleyball doubles clinic at
my High School in San Jose.  Some of you might be 
interested in attending.

    Athletic Sports Foundation - 1992 Summer Doubles Clinic
    Wednesday and Friday Evenings, April 22 & 24, 6:00-9:00 p.m.
    Lincoln High School, 555 Dana Avenue, San Jose 

Staff:  Steve Suttich - UCLA & USVBA three time All-American
                        Former Head Coach University of Washington

        Kjell Nilssen - The best grass doubles player in Northern California
                        AAA ranked beach player

Cost: $35 pre-registration, $45 day of registration.

This is ASF's eighth year of offering Volleyball Clinics.

For more information, or to register:
   Call 510/975-0952 (Walnut Creek).  Please tell the person  
   who answers the phone (Steve or Jeff), that you heard about
   the clinic from Tom Jack.  This won't benefit me in any way,
   I'm just curious how much of a response he will get from 
   this news posting.

Tom Jack       arpa:taj@cup.hp.com       uucp:uunet!hplabs!hpda!taj 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From: wang@ibmb0.cs.uiuc.edu (Eric Wang)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Karch says "No Thanks" to U.S. Olympic team
Date: 10 Apr 92 03:57:24 GMT
Reply-To: wang@ibma0.cs.uiuc.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

marshall@software.org (Eric Marshall) writes:

>	So says Paul Sunderland from the weekly AVP coverage on Prime Network.
>Sunderland said he got the information directly from Karch.

Karch and his wife are expecting their second child right around the
time the WVL rolls into action.  He quite justifiably feels that this is
not a good time to jump into the WVL's frenetic travel schedule.  While
I, like any USA Volleyball fan, would have loved to see Karch in
Barcelona, it's nice to see that he's got his priorities straight.
(Besides which, he's already won two -- time to give somebody else a
chance.)

Eric Wang
wang@ibma0.cs.uiuc.edu
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Power Volleyball - the ultimate serves
Date: 8 Apr 92 03:48:27 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr8.002342.25625@spd.analog.com>, gordon.cheung@spd.analog.com (gordon.cheung@analog.com) writes:
>     Then the author pointed out that the rule book does not specify that the
> server has to toss his/her own ball. What if a teammate can toss for the 
> server? Think of the implications...

Hm.  Mine says:

Rule 7, Article 1(b): After being clearly released or thrown from the
hand(s) of the server, the ball sdhall be cleanly hit for service...
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: rmp@crashnburn.Eng.Sun.COM (Richard Pottorff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: DID YOU OR THE NET TOUCH WHILE BLOCKING?
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:04:29 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: crashnburn

In article <1992Apr9.173313.11501@sunb10.cs.uiuc.edu> u2417@sunc2.cs.uiuc.edu (Mike Schneider) writes:
I'm sure this has happened to anyone who blocks often.  
You are blocking, and your opponent spikes the ball hard,
and it hits the top of the net and bounces back at him.
However, it also happens to have hit *you*, which your
opponent doesn't realize, and his team has 3 more hits!

Then this happened during practice.  The ball bounced off the net
back to the other team, and I had touched it (just a bit).  One player
passed it, but someone else was saying "did you touch it" and of course
I didn't say anything.  The next person just caught the ball
and said "He didn't touch it."  Then *I* said "Aha!  I did touch
it, and you should never let a ball go until you are absolutely
sure it is dead." (or something like this).  Of course, this person
that caught the ball is a friend of mine with an attitude and
he got really pissed at me when this happens, which is typical
of him since he hates to be wrong.

I'm just wondering...how does anyone else feel about this?


-- 
Mike Schneider

Mike,

It is true we should play a ball untill we know for sure it is dead; I've
passed balls over the net that everyone else has given up for dead, and the
other side has seemed shocked to recieve it, and they aren't ready to do
anything with the lollypop pass.

But, also, be a sport.  When you touch the ball, say you did, whether your
side or the other gets the next hit.  And if it hits the tape, but not
your hands, say something like never went.  I'd be inclined, in your
situation, to do a do over.

Ramblin'
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: bonacci@bullet.ecf (BONACCI  John)
Subject: 4-person strategy
Originator: bonacci@bullet.ecf.toronto.edu
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 04:55:11 GMT

We've all experienced this.  Especially when an 8-person team practices.
What is the most effective way to play real volleyball four to a side?
I always suggest 1 middle-front (setter), one middle-back and the two outsides
(hitters) responsible for a lot of forward/backward coverage.  I suppose that at
an advanced level it would be possible to get 2 blockers with the other 2 
defending the backcourt.   

Any insight/pointers appreciated.  How can you make the most of this
irregular situation?

JB
UToronto Civil Eng.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: jpy@mendelssohn.cs.columbia.edu (John P Yu)
Subject: Re: DID YOU OR THE NET TOUCH WHILE BLOCKING?
Organization: Columbia University
	<1992Apr9.202110.11288@athena.mit.edu>
	<1992Apr09.225127.114501@locus.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:08:57 GMT

In article <1992Apr09.225127.114501@locus.com> cjkuo@locus.com (Chengi Jimmy Kuo) writes:

>  (Portions Omitted)
>   Situation:

>  Ball is ping-pong'ing across the net.  I play a ball that's just come over.
>  I play it to one of our guys.  The ref blows the whistle and calls "4".  (Bad
>  call.)  He said, at some point, the ball didn't go over.  Then when I try to 
>  argue, he cites ref's judgment.  I don't think there's any place for "ref's 
>  judgment" there.  I was asking him to ask the person on the other team who 
>  directed the ball to me to verify that she was the one who hit it over.

>  Essentially, he never saw the play and lost count but he wouldn't let me
>  argue it.  I wanted to protest the game.  (He was a bad ref.)

>  So, is "4" a ref's judgment call (no blocks involved, no area for confusion
>  there)?  All I wanted was "errant whistle."

   (Ruling on "4")
   If linemen were present, your best bet would be to ask if either
   of them saw the touch.  The down ref may be watching stuff on the
   floor and the first ref probably didn't see the block.  He can't
   make a call based on something he didn't see.  Otherwise you're
   out of luck, cause it is a judgement call - not an interpretation
   of a rule.

   If he simply lost count of the contacts, then you can refer it to
   the second ref, since the top referee is applying the wrong rule
   the situation.

   Regards,
   /jpy

--
===============================================================================
The rogue warrior |.,..@....V.O*L/L)!?...EY.]+#####+B.A.....LL.....U..S.A*....|
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: cjkuo@locus.com (Chengi Jimmy Kuo)
Subject: Re: DID YOU OR THE NET TOUCH WHILE BLOCKING?
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:07:43 GMT

jpy@mendelssohn.cs.columbia.edu (John P Yu) writes:

>In article <1992Apr09.225127.114501@locus.com> cjkuo@locus.com (Chengi Jimmy Kuo) writes:

>>  (Portions Omitted)
>>   Situation:

>>  Ball is ping-pong'ing across the net.  I play a ball that's just come over.
>>  I play it to one of our guys.  The ref blows the whistle and calls "4".  (Bad
>>  call.)  He said, at some point, the ball didn't go over.  Then when I try to 
>>  argue, he cites ref's judgment.  I don't think there's any place for "ref's 
>>  judgment" there.  I was asking him to ask the person on the other team who 
>>  directed the ball to me to verify that she was the one who hit it over.

>>  Essentially, he never saw the play and lost count but he wouldn't let me
>>  argue it.  I wanted to protest the game.  (He was a bad ref.)

>>  So, is "4" a ref's judgment call (no blocks involved, no area for confusion
>>  there)?  All I wanted was "errant whistle."

>   (Ruling on "4")
>   If linemen were present, your best bet would be to ask if either
>   of them saw the touch.  The down ref may be watching stuff on the
>   floor and the first ref probably didn't see the block.  He can't
>   make a call based on something he didn't see.  Otherwise you're
>   out of luck, cause it is a judgement call - not an interpretation
>   of a rule.

As I noted above, there was no block involved.  The ball had been going 
back and forth.

>   If he simply lost count of the contacts, then you can refer it to
>   the second ref, since the top referee is applying the wrong rule
>   [to] the situation.

This last paragraph is more along my line of thinking and why I felt
I should have been allowed to argue and why there was no "referee's
judgment" involved.  Unfortunately, there was no second ref.  And the
vote from other people now stands at 3-1 (or 3-2 if I count my vote).

Roy's argument was the most definitive though.  The ref tells you what
the facts were.  He can completely recount a play that didn't happen
and I would be subject to that universe.  Oh well.

Jimmy
-- 
cjkuo@locus.com
"The correct answer to an either/or question is both!"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin)
Subject: Results from Italy? Karch?
Originator: gamg6900@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:32:02 GMT

Why hasn't anyone posted results from the Italian professional leagues?
I tried calling the Volleyball Monthly Spike Line but they had nothing
on the Italian Leagues. I called the USA National Team Offices and
the woman from public relations said she thought Il Messaggero (Karch
and Steve's team) did NOT win the championship, but she didn't have
the actual results. How about someone with the facts posting them?

I also asked this woman if she could confirm the rumor that Karch
will not be rejoining the USA Team for the Olympics, and she said they
had also heard the rumor but could not confirm it. I wonder if Karch's
decision might have been affected by the loss in the Italian Leagues?

			---- Greg Martin, g-martin1@uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: jpy@mendelssohn.cs.columbia.edu (John P Yu)
Subject: Re: Overhead setting...
Organization: Columbia University
	<JPY.92Apr13093946@mendelssohn.cs.columbia.edu>
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:56:51 GMT

In article <JPY.92Apr13093946@mendelssohn.cs.columbia.edu> jpy@mendelssohn.cs.columbia.edu (John P Yu) writes:

   In article <1992Apr12.201808.16354@csusac.csus.edu> cp18429@shazam.ecs.csus.edu (Ron Lee) writes:

   >  Could someone point me to the specific section in the USVBA rules outlining
   >  the overhead set?  I am in my school intramural league and a couple of teams
   >  are "catch and throwing the ball" in my eyes.  If they were playing beach 
   >  volleyball, then their sets could be legal.  But this is in an indoor court
   >  and subjuct to the rules of USVBA if not modified through the league's rules.
   >  I need to find the rule and section in the USVBA rules that explicitly states
   >  how to contact the ball, how far the ball may travel (ie. no lower than the
   >  forehead), and the number of rotations allowed.  I have the 1991 pocket
   >  rulebook which is VERY sketchy on this.  If someone could tell me which
   >  USVBA rulebook to look for with the rule(s) and section(s) that are concise
   >  about over head sets, I would be appreciate it VERY much.  Thanks in advance.

>     As I recall the 1992 rulebook, doesn't specifically mention limits
>     as far as rotations or length of travel.  I do believe it clarifies
>     that the ball cannot come to rest, specifically mentioning "beach"
>     and "deep dish" sets.  However, you're still subject to the first
>     referee's interpetation of this rule.  As soon as I can locate my
>     copy of the  darn thing, I can refer you to the section.

      Oops.  I must have been thinking of Rule 8, Article 6 of the
      OUTDOOR Section in the 1992 rulebook.  Your best bet would
      be Rule 8, Article 6 in the rulebook,  re: Held Balls.
      Apologies for the confusion.

      /jpy


--
===============================================================================
The rogue warrior |.,..@....V.O*L/L)!?...EY.]+#####+B.A.....LL.....U..S.A*....|
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: back@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (Philippe Backouche)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Brazil
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:37:11 GMT
Reply-To: back@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (Philippe Backouche)
Distribution: usa
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University


     My brother and I would like to play beach volley in Brazil this summer ...Does
     anyone know where to go and where the tournaments (open) are ???

     I would appreciate any pointer ....

		     Philippe.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: wang@ibma1.cs.uiuc.edu (Eric Wang)
Subject: Celebrating early (Was Re: DID YOU ... TOUCH WHILE BLOCKING?)
Reply-To: wang@ibma0.cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 04:40:38 GMT

tlennan@peterpan.sdd.trw.com (Tim Lennan) writes:
>The second point is to NEVER, EVER start celebrating or turn your back
>on the ball until you are SURE that the other side has stopped playing
>the ball ...

One of the most embarrassing blunders committed by the Illinois' women's
volleyball teams that I've seen in my three years here occurred against
Ohio State, a tenacious defensive team.  (Defense is not the Illini's
strong suit, so great defensive teams tend to bewilder us.)  Lorna
Henderson, the leader of the Illini, crushed a middle 2 with her
shoulders about level with the top of the net to the OSU three meter
line, and all of the Illini did the victory dance and turned their
backs.  Some OSU defender made a last-decisecond carpet dig with her
forearms flat on the floor, and OSU played a 15'-high free ball back
over and it landed unnoticed (??!) in the middle of our court.  None of
the Illini even saw it coming, but all of us 2500+ fans did, and so did
the Illinois bench and coaches, who were going bonkers on the sidelines.
(I think the ball even hit Lorna in the back off the first bounce as she
was going back to serve.)  When the up-ref told her that OSU had won the
point, she said something back to him.  She's always pretty vocal, but
that's the only time I ever saw her get a card.  Moral: keep playing
until you hear the whistle -- you look really silly losing a rally like
this.

Eric Wang
Founder of the IMVBC (BB) "Party AFTER The Point"
We don't lose points like this -- we just get beat.  :-(
wang@ibma0.cs.uiuc.edu
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Overhead setting...
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:24:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <92104.083224YOUNG@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, YOUNG@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Charles Young) writes:
> >   that the ball cannot come to rest, specifically mentioning "beach"
> >   and "deep dish" sets. 
> 
> The ball cannot come to rest!!??
> How does the ball change direction completely, going down to going up,
> without coming to rest? Yes, rule books do say stupid things like
> that, which really means the ref will decide. As always.

"At rest in your hands" is how our group judges up here.  If the ball
came to rest in your hands while they were going down, and was still at 
rest in your hands while you reversed them and brought them up, you 
pushed the ball.  However, if you followed the ball down with your hands 
without touching it, and then touched the ball only while your hands were 
on the way up (and didn't otherwise visibly snag it), the set was OK.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...