HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leet@ims.com (Lee Thomas)
Subject: Re: First city and longest continuously inhabited city?
Organization: Integrated Measurement Systems, Inc.
	<C0G7Cz.29M@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:09:24 GMT

>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:55:46 GMT, cctr114@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Rea) said:
Bill> Lee Thomas (leet@ims.com) wrote:

> Josh McDowell's books, especially _Evidence That Demands A Verdict_,
> include quotes from several famous archaeologists on the general topic.
> This posting of mine may provoke some responses from the dissenting
> point of view, and I'd welcome *their* references, as always.

Bill> One problem with McDowell on Jericho is that he will tell you that
Bill> a set of walls fell over as per the Bible leaving the impression
Bill> in the readers mind that there was only one such occurance. [...]
Bill> Attempting to identify a particular set of fallen walls with the
Bill> Biblical events is subject to many problems. Those who want to
Bill> will do so whether the evidence is clear or not.

After having my face pressed *firmly* against the evidence for over a
year, let me say that I do most assuredly NOT fall into that latter
class.  However, it is clear that those who would say (and I have met
some who say it, loudly) "The Bible is mythological because the walls of
Jericho never fell down" are misinformed; the problem in this case (as
in several others) is not the lack of data, but the abundance.

Bill> As for Ibaa's original question, trying to make a blanket
Bill> pronouncement on the work of many authors over some hundreds of
Bill> years can't really be done.

Uh, Bill, old friend, that's what McDowell's quotes appear to be - and
from some pretty authoritative names in archaeology, too.  Can you
enlighten me some more here?  Thanks.  (No smiley - I'm sincere.)

--
Lee Thomas,  leet@ims.com      | 
Integrated Measurement Systems | 
9525 SW Gemini Dr.             | 
Beaverton, Or 97005            | 
(503) 626-7117, ext. 1558      |
From: oueichek@gram (Ibaa Oueichek)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: First city and longest continuously inhabited city?
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:58:40 GMT
Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Jack Love (jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu) wrote:
: In article <1ZquwB7w165w@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca> panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:
: >But it [Biblical Archaeology] makes a spiffy title for a magazine.
: >
: >And it makes a handy reference for a two-word phrase designating a 
: >certain area (the middle east) and a certain time (c. 2000 B.C. to c. 100 
: >A.D.).  
: 
: Your point is well taken. The problem with the term "Biblical
: Archaeology" is that the term "Biblical" is ill-defined and contains an
: excessive amount of religious connotation for the taste of many
: scholars in the field.  In my experience, the term causes problems for
: non-religious people as much as it does for the religious. Many
: non-religious archaeologists bristle at the notion that they are
: investigating anything "Biblical" while many people with religious
: biases resent the connection of a secular discipline to the Bible
: fearing that this connection will somehow cast doubt upon their
: beliefs. On the other hand, lots of people tune in to any
: archaeological news which can somehow be connected to the Bible, and as
: you say, it does point people very roughly in direction (and time).

 Sorry to barge in, but i have a simple question:
   * How credible is the bible from a historical point of view ?. I'm speaking
   about the OT, which seems to contain several contradictions with other 
   historical sources (take for example the story of the Pharaon which seems
   to be in complete contradiction with Egyptian historians ).

   PS : I'm not historian, neither a Bible basher, just wondering.

  BTW, i didn't follow the thread from the beginning, but i believe that the
  oldest city continuously inhabited is Aleppo in Syria, which was built in 
  1780 B.C, it was the capitol of the Yamhad kingdom.
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: craig@ariel.earth.nwu.edu (Craig R. Bina)
Subject: Re: First city and longest continuously inhabited city?
Organization: Geological Sciences Department, Northwestern University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:44:23 GMT

In article <LEET.93Jan6083224@ibis.ims.com> leet@ims.com (Lee Thomas) writes:
>
>I'd have replied via e-mail, but the poster's address is incomplete.
>
>>>>>> On 4 Jan 93 23:58:40 GMT, oueichek@gram (Ibaa Oueichek) said:
>
>Ibaa>  Sorry to barge in, but i have a simple question:
>
>Sorry, but you don't - it's a highly controversial and flame-provoking
>question (speaking from bitter experience).
>
>Ibaa>    * How credible is the bible from a historical point of view?
>Ibaa>      I'm speaking about the OT, which seems to contain several
>Ibaa>      contradictions with other historical sources (take for example
>Ibaa>      the story of the Pharaon which seems to be in complete
>Ibaa>      contradiction with Egyptian historians ).
>
>Josh McDowell's books, especially _Evidence That Demands A Verdict_,
>include quotes from several famous archaeologists on the general topic.
>This posting of mine may provoke some responses from the dissenting
>point of view, and I'd welcome *their* references, as always.
>--
>Lee Thomas,  leet@ims.com      | 
>Integrated Measurement Systems | 
>9525 SW Gemini Dr.             | 
>Beaverton, Or 97005            | 
>(503) 626-7117, ext. 1558      | 

You might also check out the following:

  Author, etc.:  Lane Fox, Robin, 1946-
         Title:  The unauthorized version : truth and fiction in the Bible /
                   Robin Lane Fox.
       Edition:  1st American ed.
     Published:  New York : Knopf : Distributed by Random House, 1992.
   Description:  478 p. ; 25 cm.

       Craig.....
-- 
_______
Craig R. Bina, Asst. Prof.
Dept. of Geological Sci., Northwestern Univ.
Evanston, Illinois, craig@earth.nwu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: theodore@unity.ncsu.edu (Andrew M Smith)
Subject: Metals and metallurgy in the East Roman Empire
Organization: NCSU 
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 04:53:29 GMT

     My question can be stated in few words:  What were the various
usages of copper ore in the Roman Period?  And through what stages did
the ore have to pass, beginning at the actual mine, to encouter these
various useages?  

If you could give sources or general comments, these will be appreciated. 


_________________________________________________________________________
A M S II                                  Email:  theodore@unity.ncsu.edu
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AMS II			E-MAIL: theodore@unity.ncsu.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: byab354@chpc.utexas.edu (Jim Xu)
Subject: help! NCAR graphics
Organization: The University of Texas System - CHPC
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 22:22:59 GMT

Hi, there,

Do you familiar with NCAR graphics? I need help in write the common block
refer to STRMLN. I need to change the internal parameters. Please give me a
example.

Thanks.

Jim
--
From: eliason@merlin.llnl.gov (Don Eliason)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
Subject: Cyclic Reduction
Keywords: Cyclic Reduction, Tridiagonal Solvers, Numerical Methods
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:06:20 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Originator: eliason@merlin.llnl.gov


Does anyone know of any fortran routines available to solve
tridiagonal systems using cyclic reduction?  I would like something
along the lines of the routines in _Numerical Recipes_ (W. H. Press 
et al., 1986, Cambridge University Press); unfortunately, that
book does not have a cyclic reduction routine.  I realize that
the LIBSCI library on the Cray's has such routines, but I need
to have a portable code.

Thanks,
Donald Eliason
eliason@merlin.llnl.gov
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: jdozois6@mach1.wlu.ca (james dozois 9208 G)
Subject: flow
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:33:29 GMT

Hello, I am looking for references on kolks, upwelling and vortices.  If you
know of any, could you email me back.  Thanks.

jdozois6@mach1.wlu.ca

Jim
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: cscd@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Charles Demetriou)
Subject: MOCDENSE code ?
Summary: MOCDENSE code ?
Keywords: MOCDENSE USGS
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 02:30:55 GMT


Can anyone email me an ftp site which has a copy of the mainframe
version of MOCDENSE (US Geological Survey code).

Thanks in advance.
-- 

Charles Demetriou             cscd@marlin.jcu.edu.au
Dept. Civil and Systems Engineering
James Cook University  Townsville, Australia.
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: Michael.Lowry@launchpad.unc.edu (Michael Lowry)
Subject: Stokes flow through sinusoidal pores
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:50:30 GMT


I am working on the following problem:  very low reynold's number flow
through an axisymmetric pore with a sinusoidally varying radius.  Inertial
terms can
be  neglected.  I am familiar with some numerical solutions.  The problem
is somewhat analogous to the classic problem of flow around a sphere for
which
Stokes derived a solution.  It would thus seem that an analytical solution 
would be tractable.  I would like to know if anyone is familiar with
analytical solutions or other work on this problem.  Any other comments
would also be welcome.  For now I plan to use the FIDAP Navier-Stokes
solution package to solve the problem numerically, but a closed form
analyitical solution would be wonderful. 
I've posted this request only to sci.geo.fluids.  Are there any other
appropriate groups I'm not familiar with? 

Thanks,
Michael Lowry
UNC-CH
30MLOWRY@uncsphvx.BITNET
(or this address)
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: puchting@phobos.sscl.uwo.ca (R. Puchtinger)
Subject: BALANCE source code
Reply-To: puchting@phobos.sscl.uwo.ca (R. Puchtinger)
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:34:33 GMT


Could somebody e-mail source code for the USGS hydrochemistry program BALANCE to me?  I would appreciate a version compatible with either UNIX f77, VAX fortran, or the Microsoft fortran compiler.  Alternatively, I wonder if there is an anonymous FTP site with hydrochemical modeling software around.

	Thanks, 
		Rolf
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: an1060@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Continuum Mechanics Book Wanted
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: sci.geo.fluids
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:33:08 GMT

X-Anon-To: sci.geo.fluids


Hello All,

Does anyone have a copy of: 

Mathematics Applied to Continuum Mechanics, by Segel & Handelman.

For those who attended RPI, this is the book used for Foundations of
Applied Mathematics II (FOAM II).

I am looking for an original copy, i.e. published by Macmillan,
the book is black hardcover with green lettering (yes, quite unattractive)...

If you have one in very good condition, please contact me.

Respond to:  mantell@ams.sunysb.edu

Thanks...

Abe Mantell


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: stam@dgp.toronto.edu (Jos Stam)
Subject: LES public domain software
Organization: DGP, Dynamic Graphics Project, University of Toronto
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:37:01 GMT

I am looking for public domain software (preferably in C) to do Large
Eddie Simulations. Any suggestions, comments, info welcome...

Jos Stam
stam@dgp.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: bathurst@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Bruce Bathurst)
Subject: Re: Basic Geology Books...
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:43:36 GMT

The single book is still Arthur Holmes's _Principles_of_Geology_.

I browsed in the latest version, updated postumously by his wife (a
geologist of international reputation), and liked it even better than
the earlier ones.

Bruce (Gypsy Scholar)
-- 
Department of Geological and Geophysical Sciences
Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544
bathurst@phoenix.princeton.edu bathurst@pucc.bitnet !princeton!phoenix!bathurst
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish)
Subject: Re: Question about Earth's magnetic poles
Organization: Mindcraft, Inc.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 02:03:55 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.000819.18360@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM
(Richard Ottolini) writes:
>In article <145527@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> hudek@polaris.llnl.gov
(David Hudek) writes:
>>I was reading a book the other day in which it was claimed there was
>>(unspecified) geological evidence that the Earth's magnetic poles had
>>shifted rather dramatically in the past. It was rather vague
>>and offered no details/references so I tend to disbelieve it, but thought
>>of what a wonderful resource the "net" is... can anyone confirm/deny
>>the assertion? (sci.geo.geology seemed like an appropriate newsgroup; 
>>my apologies if not).

The reference I use most often is McIlhenny's "Paleomagnetism and Plate
Tectonics".

>A frequently asked question :-)
>
>Until the late 1960s it was not clear that either poles or the
>earth's surface shifted- >both hypothesis had data- but after
>the plate tectonics the preponderance of evidence is
>best eplained by the earth's surface moving rather than the
>magnetic poles.

Both the Earth's crustal plates and the magnetic poles
move.

The Earth's magnetic field is now changing rapidly enough
that it's necessary to prepare a new map of the field every
ten years, in order to make it possible to navigate with a
magnetic compass to a precision of less than one degree.

The magnetic field isn't perfectly symmetrical, so it's
usually modeled as consisting of a dipole component and a
non-dipole component.  The magnetic poles are the places
where the dipole intersects the Earth's surface.

A large number of incidents have been recorded in which the
orientation of the Earth's magnetic field has reversed its
polarity.  Reversals have been documented by examining the
magnetic fields trapped in rocks as they formed.

The reversal process probably takes some thousands of years
to happen and the process has never been observed first
hand by earth scientists, but my expectation is that during
a reversal the field would either have no dominant dipole
component and thus that there would be no magnetic poles,
or that the dipole would change in orientation such that
the magnetic poles would move.

Remember that once you get away from the very rough
approximation that the magnetic poles coincide with the
Earth's axis of rotation, the concept of a magnetic pole is
a somewhat arbitrary one.  In this context, my distinction
between poles disappearing and poles swinging around the
Earth is largely a semantic issue.
--

    Chuck Karish          karish@mindcraft.com
    (415) 323-9000 x117   karish@pangea.stanford.edu
From: helen@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Helen X. Qian)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: Re: Stacey`s new geophysics book
Date: 4 Jan 1993 23:13:48 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1993Jan4.200959.14608@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> cain@geomag.gly.fsu.edu (Joe Cain) writes:
>	I heard that Frank Stacey suddenly came out with a 3rd edition
>of his "Physics of the Earth" after publishing the last in 1977. Does
>anyone know who, where, how to get a copy? Our library bombed out on
>this as it appears he is using a local Australian publisher, perhaps
>at the University of Queensland.
>
>
>Joseph Cain		cain@geomag.gly.fsu.edu   
>cain@fsu.bitnet		scri::cain
>

The book is published by Brookfield Press, GPO Box 738, Kenmore,
Brisbane 4069, Australia. Fax +61-7-3742059.  I saw it at AGU. 
This edition is a
complete rewrite.  It contains more material than the previous 
editions.  The cost is about $50 or AUS$70, I think.  Apparently,
Stacey switched to a small publisher so it would be cheaper.

Helen
From: helm@ymir.berkeley.edu (Catie Helm)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: Looking for Magellan Venus Animation
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:40:09 GMT
Distribution: sci.geo.geology
Organization: UC Davis

Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: Looking for Magellan Computer Animation
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: sci.geo.geology
Organization: UC Davis
Keywords: 

Greetings!  I am looking for some information.  A year ago (?) at AGU, someone
showed a computer animation of the Magellan Venus data.  The animation took the
topo data of Venus and superimposed the reflected radar data, displaying it as
if the viewer were doing a fly-by of the planet from the satellite.

We're holding a Venus seminar here right now, and I got elected to hunt down
ordering information/borrowing information on this animation.  Does anyone out
there know where I might find this geophysical video spectacular?

Catie Helm
helm@geology.ucdavis.edu
From: ryenaturectr@igc.apc.org (Rye Nature Center)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: 5th grade geo info
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:36:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1466800002:000:489
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ryenaturectr    Jan 11 12:36:00 1993


Hello - We are interested in any information about texts or sources for 
activities dealing with the following topics:
Marine Geology
Rocks and Minerals
Land Formation
Volcanoes
Plate Tectonics
This information is for use in creating a unit for fifth grade on geology 
and related topics.  Any information would be appreciated.  Also if there 
are other conferences in which we could post this message, please send 
that information as well.  Send information to <ryenaturectr>.  Thanks.
From: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu (Jeremy Bloxham)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: Re: Stacey`s new geophysics book
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:11:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1993Jan4.221106.9118
Reply-To: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu
Organization: Earth and Planetary Sciences, Harvard University

In article 14608@mailer.cc.fsu.edu, cain@geomag.gly.fsu.edu (Joe Cain) writes:
>	I heard that Frank Stacey suddenly came out with a 3rd edition
>of his "Physics of the Earth" after publishing the last in 1977. Does
>anyone know who, where, how to get a copy? Our library bombed out on
>this as it appears he is using a local Australian publisher, perhaps
>at the University of Queensland.
>

It's available for A$74.00 from:

Brookfield Press, PO Box 738, Kenmore, Queensland, 4069, Australia.
Fax Number: +61 7 374 2059

Jeremy
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: simon@earth.monash.edu.au (Simon Cox)
Subject: Geophysical data from Russia?
Reply-To: simon@earth.monash.edu.au
Organization: Monash University Dept of Earth Sciences
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 03:27:42 GMT


We are interested in getting hold of geophysical data (gravity and Magnetics) 
for the Norilsk area in W Siberia.  Can anyone suggest who to contact?

Thanks

Simon Cox
---
__________________________________________________________________
				Dr Simon Cox
         __  L				
      ,~'  L_|\            	Department of Earth Sciences       
   ,-'         \         	Monash University    
   (            \		Clayton  Vic  3168  Australia
   \    ___     /	
    L,~'   "\_x/		Phone +61 3 565 5762
              u   		Fax   +61 3 565 5062
				simon@cerberus.earth.monash.edu.au
__________________________________________________________________
From: andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: Re: "new" faults
Date: 6 Jan 1993 01:04:15 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu

In article <1993Jan6.005403.17752@leland.Stanford.EDU> karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.005609.17421@asi.com> stevep@asi.com
>(Steve Pendleton) writes:
>>I read a popular article that says the Landers event was on 
>>a "completely new" fault. It was ambiguous whether this meant 
>>"it was entirely absent before the event" or "it was clearly 
>>already there, but was previously unknown."
>The Landers event involved movement on segments of
>a number of different faults.  At least a few of them
>are prominent and well-recognized features.  With names,
>even.  This mode of failure, with several faults
>moving at once, is what's new.
Much has been made of how new this was, but to my mind this says more
about us than about how unusual this is.  The 1988 Armenian earthquake
also broke multiple fault segments, with (if I remember the AGU talks
correctly) widely different mechanisms.  Different segments had strike
slip and oblique motions which in the end added up to an oblique mechanism
like Loma Prieta.  This does point out that fault segmentation is a
complicated process, and what is a segment boundary one time may be
ruptured through another time.

>>The latter must be far more likely, but every fault must have
>>a first event. (Or at least every first event must have a fault.)
>>Are there any cases -- Landers or otherwise -- of faults that seem 
>>to have their entire displacement from an observed event? 
>It's a lot easier to demonstrate the presence of
>a particular displacement than it is to demonstrate
>the absence of other displacements.  It would require
>a really extraordinary set of circumstances to make
>such a finding possible.

Well you could imagine that you saw 6 meters of slip in one event on a
fault that had piercing points on it from another structure that ruled
out previous slip in the time since that piercing point was formed
(which could be a long time ago).  But perhaps that would be
extraordinary.

HOWEVER, the model of fault development many of us think about has
small faults of differing but similar orientations coalescing into a
longer fault over time.  As the fault becomes more and more homogeneous
it can support greater and greater slip in individual events.  It would
be counter to this model to have a single large event form a completely
new fault.  Not that it can't happen, but (IMHO) it seems more likely
for faults to grow slowly in a highly fractured crust like California's.

Andy
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: basic geology texts
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:58:59 GMT


One kind of text I haven't really seen in the earth sciences is the kind organized by
"interesting phenomena" or "triva question".  For example, I've enjoyed reading Desmond Morris's
Animal Watching series about zoology topics that are organized this way.  Textbooks are
orgainizing in a pedegogical (educational) fashion.  This usually means from fundamentals-to-
complexity or in categories.  To me this often means BORING, even in my own specialty.

Other attempts that come to mind in the physical sciences are in astronomy, like the "Catalog
of the Universe".  This is essentially a list of fascinating examples of each type of
phenomena with pedagogy folded in.  Another attempt is Asimov's questions in science series,
but I have found them lacking continuity and somewhat shallow.

Another approach I liked to earth science writing was Walter Sullivan's Continents In Motion-
the history of plate tectonics.  Mr. Sullivan was the head science writer for the New York Times
in the 1970s and had a special interest in the earth sciences.  His book almost reads like an
adventure novel- the drama of discovery (though it is been criticized as not getting all the
details right).

Well it is time to get off this soapbox and write this book myself.
I'll put this on my to-do list when I retire after winning the lottery :-)