HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: henley@eng.auburn.edu (James Paul Henley)
Subject: Re: Is Borland the leader in technology?
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:49:46 GMT

In article <1eecf5INNim8@early-bird.think.com> barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.124222.12003@bsu-ucs> 00skolis@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>>Borland claims to be the leader in Object Oriented Programming. Why do
>>you feel they can hold this title in concern to the latest in technology?
>
>They're probably making this claim based on market share, not necessarily
>on technical comparison.  This is a common marketing strategy.  I wouldn't
>be surprised if their Turbo C++ is the largest selling OO language product.
>Does Turbo Pascal have OO facilities, too?
>-- 
>Barry Margolin
>System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.
>
>barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar


You haven't heard?  They introduced OOP way back in version 5.5, and they
now have version 7.0 out.  They also have OOP support in Turbo Pascal for
Windows, and in fact, you really can't program for Windows effectively without
using OOP.  Since most CS departments look down their noses at PC based
languages, I'm not surprised how little they know about TP.  I spent an
hour arguing with one of the professors in the CS department here one day.
He kept saying: "Yes, but you cant do XXX in Turbo Pascal".  I would then
explain *exactly* how to do XXX in Turbo Pascal, and he would say "Yes, but
you can't do YYY in Turbo Pascal." ad nauseum.  He finally ran out of things
that he thought TP could not do, and was literally speechless.

So far, every attempt to implement object oriented Chemical Engineering
applications in Smalltalk and Lisp have fizzled.  Those languages simply
cannot handle the number crunching necessary.  For me and my purposes,
Turbo Pascal is the *only* current language that even comes close to handling
what I need to do.  I have tried Prolog, CLIPS, C++, etc.

I am having a really hard time getting people in the Computer Science field
to understand our needs in Chemical Engineering.  Every major OOP development
in Chemical Engineering has required *too* much computer expertise to use.
I thought that was what OOP was supposed to avoid!  I'm going to find the
right OOP tools one way or another, even if it means going to graduate school
in CS and then developing them myself.

James P. Henley Jr.
Chemical Engineering Dept
Auburn University

Newsgroups: comp.object
From: henley@eng.auburn.edu (James Paul Henley)
Subject: Re: Is Borland the leader in technology?
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:18:10 GMT

In article <WELCH.92Nov20202117@sacral.cis.ohio-state.edu> welch@sacral.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arun Welch) writes:
>In article <henley.921120134945@wilbur.eng.auburn.edu> henley@eng.auburn.edu (James Paul Henley) writes:
>
>   So far, every attempt to implement object oriented Chemical Engineering
>   applications in Smalltalk and Lisp have fizzled.  
>
>Revise that to every one of *your* attempts have fizzled. The AI in
>ChemE group here's been using Lisp for a number of years, on a wide
>variety of machines and implementations, using a variety of OOP
>languages in Lisp. I know a bunch of other sites using it too. 
>
>...arun
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Arun Welch
>Lisp Systems Programmer, Lab for AI Research, Ohio State University
>welch@cis.ohio-state.edu
>
>
>
Where do they publish?  I haven't been able to find anything recently.  A 
graduate student here who has been interested in the field hasn't either.
The last thing we heard about using Object Oriented design in LISP for Chemical
Engineering was KEE from MIT.  They have been silent of late.

Could you give me an example of designing a 10 stage distillation column, with
a Murphree Vapor efficiency of 74%, and a diameter of 2 meters?  Using 
experimental data for equilibrium calculations, and responding to changes in
feed quality, feed composition, reflux flow rate, reboiler heat load,
downstream pressure fluctuations in the Distillate and Bottoms streams?
To make things simple, just allow for 2 components with relatively constant
specific heats over the temperature range - say, Methanol and Water.

How would I use the Object Oriented Model in a model predictive controller,
and could a model of the model predictive controller itself be incorporated
in a dynamic simulation of the distillation column?

Could I implement the column on my PC, and have it dynamically linked to
a control computer which was sending temperature, pressure, composition,
and flow rate information in from an actual process, and then send the 
model's bottoms and distillate compositions back to a model predictive
controller on the column?

Finally, what size computer would be necessary to do a dynamic simulation of
a small chemical plant, say a coal gasification plant which produced as a 
final product methanol?

Dr. James P. Henley Jr.
Visiting Assistant Professor
Department of Chemical Engineering
Auburn University

Newsgroups: comp.object
From: rpomeroy@aunext3.amd.com (Ron Pomeroy x(Coop))
Subject: Re: OOPs NON-prog. practicallity
Reply-To: rpomeroy@aunext3.amd.com
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 14:48:13 GMT

In article <j_ohearn.722016929@dn73>  writes:
>>In <1992Nov16.234354.11981@bsu-ucs> 00wkheizer@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>>
>>>I am currently involved in a study of OOPs for a class project.  My question
>>>is what can non-programmers expect to gain from this new technology and in  
what
>>>areas do you see as benefiting other than actual programming?
>>
>>What a wonderful question!  There is no doubt that non-programmers have a  
great
>>deal to gain from OO technology.  OO analysis identifies real-world entities
>>and transforms them into classes; this establishes a common language which
>>creates a positive dialogue between the software engineer and the domain  
expert
>>(the non-programmer).  No longer does the software engineer have to confuse  
the
>>domain expert by expressing himself/herself in terms of records, arrays, and
>>far pointers; the discussions born of the analysis are expressed in terms  
clearly
>>understood by the domain expert.  The interviews conducted by the engineer  
with
>>the domain expert allows the engineer to discover class responsibilities and
>>class relationships.  The interview process helps create a team atmosphere  
and
>>makes the domain expert part of the solution!  Such benefits are priceless!
>>Today's software systems are incredibly complicated and any technique which
>>serves to open the lines of communication between software development and  
the 
>>customer (both internal and external) is an asset.
>>
>>I have had the good fortune to see the transformation of the team environment
>>where I work.  I have seen multi-disciplinary teams work better and faster
>>because of OO techniques!
>>
>>Thank you for listening.
>>
>>Jim O'Hearn
>>Software Engineer
>>Beckman Instruments, Inc., Diagnositics Systems Group

Ditto.  You hit the nail right on the head !!
--
Ronald Pomeroy		[Objective-Cruntime: [Smalltalk runtime]];
Advanced Micro Devices	[self dream-on];
CAM Applications Group
rpomeroy@aunext1.amd.com (NeXTmail preferred)
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: Is Borland the leader in technology?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 21:27:01 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com

In article <1992Nov17.124222.12003@bsu-ucs> 00skolis@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>Borland claims to be the leader in Object Oriented Programming. Why do
>you feel they can hold this title in concern to the latest in technology?

They're probably making this claim based on market share, not necessarily
on technical comparison.  This is a common marketing strategy.  I wouldn't
be surprised if their Turbo C++ is the largest selling OO language product.
Does Turbo Pascal have OO facilities, too?
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: ogd@selway.umt.edu (ozymandias G desiderata)
Subject: Object-Oriented Assembly [?!]
Summary: Any comments?
Organization: ::AOAIOXXYSZ::
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 08:13:21 GMT

Since it was sort of brought up in the previous post, I thought I'd
bring this in:

	When I was browsing through Powell's Technical Bookstore (in
Portland, OR - total hacker heaven, in case you care), I came across a
peculiar volume entitled "Object-Oriented Assembly". It was about
exactly it said it was about: retrofitting macro-based assembly code
so that it derived some of the benefits of OOD. I thought it was a
total hoot, but the frightening part is that it made a demented sort
of sense. Anybody else out there seen this and care to comment? (of
course, I'm a fan of Yerk, which is object-oriented Forth, so I guess
the concept isn't too hard for me to grasp.)

ozymandias G desiderata
-- 
----
		"Give me your hand and I'll tell you your future,
		 give me your wallet and I'll tell you your past."
			- Mudwimin, "Oom Pa Pa"
From: sdm91r@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Stuart Maclean)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: Unix OO CASE Tools
Keywords: object-oriented,CASE,OOP,Rumbaugh
Date: 17 Nov 92 11:06:10 GMT

In <1992Nov9.190215.7134@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> smogonek@larry.lerc.nasa.gov (Joseph Ogonek) writes:

>The project that I am involved with will include the utilization of OO
>techniques for design and analysis.  I am looking for any CASE tools
>that support the OO notation of Rumbaugh et al.  We would like to use
>these tools on an SGI or Sun platform.

The Rumbaugh book includes a reference to their own OMT case tool. I don't know
if this is available yet. I have used the OOATool, which supports Coad and
Yourdon's methodology. It is crap!!

Stuart.
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: li@nada.kth.se (Li Jiarong)
Subject: Info request: statistics about OOP languages used in industrial proj.
Originator: li@cyklop.nada.kth.se
Reply-To: li@nada.kth.se (Li Jiarong)
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:21:13 GMT

Some time ago, I saw some statistics on the net about the distribution of OOP 
languages (C++, Smalltalk, Eiffel, etc) used in industrial projects, such as 
the percentage of projects using C++, or Smalltalk and so on. Is there anyone
who has saved that information?

I need it for a friend who is writing a summary report on OOP.

-- 	Jiarong Li
	Dept. of Numerical Analysis
	and Computing Science
	Royal Institute of Technology
	100 44 Stockholm
	Sweden
From: coxm@Software.Mitel.COM (Michael Cox)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: Is Borland the leader in technology?
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:37:36 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

>In article <1992Nov17.124222.12003@bsu-ucs> 00skolis@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>>Borland claims to be the leader in Object Oriented Programming. Why do
>>you feel they can hold this title in concern to the latest in technology?
>
>They're probably making this claim based on market share, not necessarily
>on technical comparison.  This is a common marketing strategy.  I wouldn't
>be surprised if their Turbo C++ is the largest selling OO language product.
I think the real reason that they feel they can lay such a claim is that (from
what I've heard in the press) they have mandated ALL software in Borland be
written in C++ (I guess with the exception of a bit of assember) and with their
own compiler.  To me that was at the leading edge of a C++ push about two years
ago.  Now everone and their dog does C++ but I have yet to see any other
company come out (like Microsoft) and publicly announce that all of their
software was to be done in C++ (like Windows NT?).


-- 
Michael H. Cox      | The end of the Earth is expected in 2.3 billion years.
                    | Have you made the correct investment decisions?
Mitel Corporation   | 
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: bumesh@puma.cat.syr.edu
Subject: Re: Suite Talk
In-reply-to: bumesh@puma.cat.syr.edu's message of Mon, 23 Nov 92 14:56:30 EST
Organization: Syracuse University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 17:26:58 EST

Sorry about the multiple postings. Something wrong with the system
-umesh
--


-umesh
From: eddy@juniper.crd.ge.com (Frederick S. Eddy)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: Unix OO CASE Tools
Keywords: object-oriented,CASE,OOP,Rumbaugh
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:13:32 GMT
Reply-To: eddy@juniper.crd.ge.com (Frederick S. Eddy)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

In article <13556@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, sdm91r@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Stuart
Maclean) writes:
|>In <1992Nov9.190215.7134@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov>
smogonek@larry.lerc.nasa.gov (Joseph Ogonek) writes:
|>
|>>The project that I am involved with will include the utilization of OO
|>>techniques for design and analysis.  I am looking for any CASE tools
|>>that support the OO notation of Rumbaugh et al.  We would like to use
|>>these tools on an SGI or Sun platform.
|>
|>The Rumbaugh book includes a reference to their own OMT case tool. I
don't know
|>if this is available yet. I have used the OOATool, which supports Coad and
|>Yourdon's methodology. It is crap!!

GE's OMTool (Object Modeling Tool, developed at GE Corporate R&D) is available
from 
	GE Advanced Concepts Center	800-GE-TRAIN  (800-438-7246)
	or +1-215-992-6200 from outside the U.S.

OMTool currently runs on Sun workstations.  A MS-Windows version of OMTool 
will also be available.

The GE Advanced Concepts Center also provides training and consulting services.
            
----	
Frederick Eddy	  	Phone:     518 387-7163		FAX: 518 387-6104
GE Corporate R&D  	Internet:  eddy@crd.ge.com
Schenectady, NY	12301   USA
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: bumesh@puma.cat.syr.edu
Subject: Suite Talk 
Organization: Syracuse University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 08:13:56 EST


Hi, I'm looking for information on products supporting OO distributed
computing. Specifically I'd like to learn about 2 products called
"Suite Talk" and "Suite Dome". Any info. on the products and the
company which developed them would be highly appreciated.
-umesh
--


-umesh
From: gb@cs.purdue.edu (Gerald Baumgartner)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: Object-Oriented Assembly [?!]
Date: 21 Nov 1992 18:59:40 -0500
Organization: Department of Computer Sciences, Purdue University
	<1992Nov9.183028.4680@lth.se> <jubo.721903736@rwthi3>
	<1992Nov21.081321.23912@selway.umt.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ector.cs.purdue.edu
In-reply-to: ogd@selway.umt.edu's message of Sat, 21 Nov 1992 08:13:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.081321.23912@selway.umt.edu> ogd@selway.umt.edu (ozymandias G desiderata) writes:
>	When I was browsing through Powell's Technical Bookstore (in
> Portland, OR - total hacker heaven, in case you care), I came across a
> peculiar volume entitled "Object-Oriented Assembly".
> exactly it said it was about: retrofitting macro-based assembly code
> so that it derived some of the benefits of OOD. I thought it was a
> total hoot, but the frightening part is that it made a demented sort
> of sense.

That concept doesn't sound strange at all.  C++ is another example.

C did a good job as machine-independent assembly language.  Now they
retrofitted a macro processor (called `cfront') on top of it to make
it look like an object-oriented machine-independent assembly language.
Once the C++ assemblers do a good enough job in optimizing, you might
very well see people compiling high level languages down to C++.

Cheers,

Gerald
From: goutal@hammer.crim.ca (Jean-Michel Goutal)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: free CASE tool?
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:53:56 GMT
Reply-To: goutal@hammer.crim.ca
Organization: CRIM  (Centre de Recherche Informatique de Montreal)

Does anyone know some OO CASE Tools or OO environments that are avaible
on the network for free?

Thank you

---
Jean Michel Goutal
Conseiller Genie Logiciel/ Consultant software engineering
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: conrozi@kk188.ericsson.se (Roman Zielinski TT/TSM)
Subject: OOTher 1.04d (OO Doc Tool)
Organization: Ericsson
Distribution: comp
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:08:30 GMT

I've uploaded a patch version of OOTher (1.04d) to Simtel20 and
garbo. SIMTEL has acknowledged upload, garbo not yet...

OOTher is a simple and easy to use graphical OO analysis and design
drawing tool for Coad's notation. It's distributed as shareware
$0 fee for students, $50/(1 lic) for home users, $150/(5 lic) for com users.


The new version (c) contains corrected support for the postscript printers.


To fetch from simtel send a mail to: LISTSERV@VM1.NoDak.EDU
with subject SIMTEL20-request.
Body:

/PDGET MAIL PD1:<MSDOS.WINDOWS3>OOT-104D.ZIP UUENCODE



To fetch from garbo (when it's in) send a mail to:
mailserv@garbo.uwasa.fi, subject: garbo-request
Body:

send win3/programming/oot-104d.zip


Regards
Roman Zielinski [author]



Newsgroups: comp.object
From: sss@world.std.com (Sergiu S Simmel)
Subject: When an (OO)DBMS Won't Do!
Organization: Penobscot Development Corporation, Arlington MA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:14:17 GMT


[For more information contact: kenb@dec5120d.ccs.northeastern.edu]


		      The Greater Boston Chapters of the
		     ACM, IEEE Computer Society and SIGMOD
				   present:

		       Kala(tm) -- When a DBMS Won't Do!

			       Sergiu S. Simmel
		       Penobscot Development Corporation
				 Arlington MA

			   Thursday 10 December 1992
		     7:00 PM with refreshments at 6:30 PM
			 Newman Auditorium, BBN, Inc.
			       70 Fawcett Street
				 Cambridge, MA


     Where do you keep your persistent data?  We've had two main options so
far: file systems (FSs) and database management systems (DBMSs).  For many of
us, neither choice is good enough.

     On one hand, FSs are often unreliable, provide no data consistency, few
offer versioning, sharing is primitive at best, and you have to keep
transforming data between "internal" and "external" forms all the time.  But
they are fast, they can hold any data, they are easy to use, and -- the price
is right!

     On the other hand, true DBMSs support sharing and data integrity,
transactions and versioning (although the specifics may not be exactly what
your application needs), are scalable, and tend to be more robust.  But they
are slower by an order of magnitude or more, they confine you to the kind of
data they happen to know about (or you may impose any structure on a BLOB --
back to where you were with files, only much slower), they are hard to use,
quite complicated, and -- expensive in money, system resources, and operational
costs!

     Not a bright picture in the economics of quality! Is there a happy medium?
Something with the speed and flexibility of files, the reliability,
shareability and robustness of databases, and a cost that won't break your
wallet or the available hardware?  Sure there is!  A new class of products, the
Persistent Data Servers, point to that direction.

     We will introduce Kala, the first commercial persistent data server.  This
brief presentation will cover the basics of the Kala model, as well as an
application example.

Biography

     Sergiu S. Simmel is co-founder and President of Penobscot Development
Corporation, a company specializing in persistent data management technologies,
software, and services.  Over the past eleven years, he has worked for several
software companies as an engineer and manager in the areas of CASE,
object-based technologies, persistence and language semantics.  He has been
with the Kala Project for over six years.  Mr. Simmel received a MS in Computer
and Information Sciences from the University of Minnesota.  He is currently
working on a book on the Kala technology for Addison-Wesley.
From: mmehr@cup.portal.com (mike lee mehr)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Wanted: Info on MSWindows OO CASE Tools
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 00:50:18 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

I am posting this article for a friend. Please send replies by email to
mmehr@netcom.com. Thanks in advance.

------------------

We are looking for OOA/OOD tools for a large scale project involving C++ on
the Microsoft Windows, and eventually Windows/NT, platforms. We are currently
evaluating Paradigm Plus, the not-yet-released OMTool for Windows, and Atriom.
The notation we chose is based on "Object-Oriented Modeling and Design," by
James Rumbaugh, et al. The following are our criteria for evaluating the tool:

   o Support Object Diagrams, Dynamic Diagrams, and Functional Diagrams
   o ease of drawing and editing diagrams
   o complete support of the methodology
   o object repository
   o ease of declaring and editing classes, attributes, operations
   o workgroup support
   o rule or consistency checking
   o interconnection between objects and diagrams
   o support for large scale projects
   o code generation capability
   o runs on Microsoft Windows, with at least plans for Windows/NT version

We would appreciate hearing any information and/or experience people have had
regarding these OOA/OOD tools, or others we are not yet aware of. More weight
will be given toward tools that are already released, although we will not
totally rule out tools that are soon to be on the market. Your help will be
greatly appreciated. Thanks.

NOTE: Although we have tested various tools supporting the Booch notation, we
have found it to be less expressive and inappropriate to our needs. Please
send comments only about tools supporing Rumbaugh notation. Thanks.
Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.lang.ada,comp.software-eng
From: akk@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu (Arvind Kukreja 202-219-7396)
Subject: Re: SA/SD Documentation of an OBD Design
Organization: Johns Hopkins Continuing Professional Programs
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 03:55:12 GMT

Execelleent idea

n
From: 00skolis@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Is Borland the leader in technology?
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:42:22 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

Borland claims to be the leader in Object Oriented Programming. Why do
you feel they can hold this title in concern to the latest in technology?
I am looking to see what advantages they offer as opposed to other
companies.
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: bumesh@puma.cat.syr.edu
Subject: Suite Talk
Organization: Syracuse University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 08:10:44 EST

Hi, I'm looking for information on products supporting OO distributed
computing. Specifically I'd like to learn about 2 products called
"Suite Talk" and "Suite Dome". Any info. on the products and the
company which developed them would be highly appreciated.
-umesh
--


-umesh
From: 00skolis@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: OOPs Have you used it?
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:00:24 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

What type of exciting OOPs applications  do you have experience with?
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: bobatk@microsoft.com (Bob Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Is Borland the leader in technology?
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:55:41 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

Richard Ronteltap (I87) writes:
>>Borland claims to be the leader in Object Oriented Programming. Why do
>>you feel they can hold this title in concern to the latest in technology?
>>I am looking to see what advantages they offer as opposed to other
>>companies.
>
>I think it is because the new Paradox 4.0 can store 'exotic' data types
>such as pictures and other Binary Large OBjects (BLOBs).

Just small FYI: Micosoft Access has similar capabilities, in that it can 
deal with OLE embeddings in a table / form / etc. Though this mechanism
it not only handles pictures, but other things, such as spreadsheets, drawings,
graphs, etc.

	Bob
Newsgroups: comp.object