HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tonypaso@polaris.utu.fi (Tony Matti Juhani Paso)
Subject: Re: Dementia spreading in Social Democratic Party
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 14:57:17 GMT

tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist) writes:

>In article <1992Dec19.011017.9459@polaris.utu.fi> tonypaso@polaris.utu.fi (Tony Matti Juhani Paso) writes:
>> I wouldn't think it was unfair to call Mr. Sundqvist upperclass. Does it
>> really matter what class little Ulf was born into? It just happens to
>> be a fact that today and for the past couple of decades Sundqvist has
>> drawn such a income, that he most certainly is as upperclass as you
>> can get.

>Sure, if you define "upper class" as, say, simply the five percent of
>the population with the highest income at any moment, then Sundqvist
>is now upper class.  But the point is: why did Jarmo want to point out

That's something that you'll have to ask from him. I speak only for 
myself and don't vouch for his words.

>that he is an "upper-class finlandswede"? Why is it in any way
>relevant that his mother tongue is Swedish? And, as I said earlier,

The relavancy of his mother-tongue and social background is determined
by what is being discussed. I don't have the original article that
started this chain handy, so I'll reserve judgement for now.

>what's new about bank directors being well paid?

Bank directors being well paid isn't anything new. What perhaps is new
is, that incompetent bank directors are being so outragiously well
paid. The level of incompetence (that we the taxpayers will have to 
pay ca. 70 mrd FIM for) expressed by bank directors has certainly
reached a record high. 

>Tor Lillqvist,
>working, but not speaking, for the Technical Research Centre of Finland,
>Laboratory for Information Processing (VTT/TIK).
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Estonian Kroon (Was Re: Norwegian Krone floating)
Date: 12 Dec 92 14:25:39 GMT
 <1992Dec11.072234.18388@jyu.fi>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Dec11.072234.18388@jyu.fi>
ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

> The strongest crown seems to be in ourdays estonian kroon:-).
> 
> Tervised,
> jarmo ryyti

Only because the Estonians force any Westerner going into their country
to pay an outrageous sum for an entry visa (in convertible currency
only).  If I had such a source of SKV, I'd have a strong currency too.

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"I should have realized it would be bad vodka when all the label said
was 'Russian Vodka'."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Dementia spreading in Social Democratic Party
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:42:43 GMT

Tor Lillqvist (tml@tik.vtt.fi) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec14.100255.6045@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
: > Comrade (*) U.Sundquist is an upper class finlandswede 
: 
: Hmm, are you sure about this? Isn't "Uffe" from Sibbo/Sipoo?  His last
: name at least doesn't indicate any "upper class" connections, like,
: say Ehrnrooth or Donner. If he indeed was from the traditional
: Swedish-speaking upper class, why the hell would he have chosen to
: become a social democratic politican and director of the former
: "Workers' Savings Bank"?  Wouldn't he more probably have been in SYP,
: Helsingfors Sparbank, Partek, etc whatever the traditional "Swedish
: capital" corporations are?

Social Democratical desease means exactly that, those who speculate
that it gives opportunities are in crowds over there...
Like in the Old Communist Party of XSU...may it rest in peace...hopefully.
: 
: Well, isn't this very common for the middle-aged political "broilers"?
: Esko Aho, Ilkka Kanerva, Paavo V{yrynen etc. But isn't being a bank
: manager, minister or M.P. real work?

You are right. Same stuff the whole bunch.
In  old good days it was said; bring them behind a sauna...

 <I think Sundqvist should resign as chairman of SDP. 

That I hope too, but as I wrote earlier, he may not resign before the men
in white coats come and take him away...

Now someone may think that what in the hell this discussion concerns
soc.culture.nordic. ,very much, SOCIAL DEMOCRATICAL DISEASE IS AN ALL
NORDIC DISEASE.

A very bad and wide spread, the most badly it has hit in Sweden.
72 % of the national income of Sweden circulates through public sector
and the swedes are just gasping. I think not for a very long time forward.

Very pessimistic about Sweden,
jarmo ryyti

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Want to learn to read and speak Norwegian. Recommendations?
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 21:26:22 GMT

Bjorn Halvor Solberg writes:

In article <92347.0436332971047@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>,
2971047@QUCDN.QueensU.CA writes:
>                                   See ya' where the sun never sets,

He-he... if you were thinking about your "nordland" then at this time you
should rather say:

	"See ya' where the sun never rises,"
or during the season it actually rise:
	"See ya' where the sun never shines,"

>                                   100% prime time "NORDLENDING"

Bjorn.  (some here, some there :-)
End quote.

Actually I thought this thread had something to do with learning
Norwegian (:-).  It reminded me of an old joke that I have probably
misremembered about every Norwegian speaking four languages fluently,
three of them being Norse.

Al Moore
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 10:13:41 EST
From: <2971047@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Skjaerp daakk, rankoerva (was: I *resent*..)

Well, the dialect may not change when you leave Mo in the Rana, but
mentality certainly does.

No matter WHAT direction you're headed!

                                        From the heart of Nordland,
                                        gp
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu (raymond thomas pierrehumbert)
Subject: Re: Traditional Swedish Christmas song
Reply-To: rtp1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:41:52 GMT

>I doubt that Here we go round the mulberry bush is a "cognate" ...

Ya got the wrong bloomin mulberry bush.  The one in question goes:

Here we go 'round the mulberry bush
the mulberry bush, the mulberry bush
Here we go 'round the mulberry bush
At five o'clock in the morning.

This is the way we wash our clothes
we wash our clothes, we wash our clothes
(o.s.w.)

------------
#ifdef T.S.Eliot 1,$s/"mulberry bush"/"prickley pear"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: per@tdb.uu.se (Per Wahlund)
Subject: Re: Finnish Defense
Organization: Dept. of Scientific Computing, Uppsala Univ.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:40:56 GMT

Jarmo Ryyti (ryyti@jyu.fi) wrote:
: 
: In Sweden the finnish-speking conscripts have to serve in swedish speaking
: units. Swedenfinnish Centralorganization has proposed the idea to the
: Swedish army that the finnnish speaking conscripts should serve in finnish
: speaking units. Swedish army has denied this wish by arguing that it
: disintegrate swedish army. So it must be the same in Finland, swedish
: speaking units disintegrate Finnish the army. We have copied a lot of thinking
: from Swden, at least it is boasted so, why not this thining too.
: 

  If you don't like Sweden, why do you copy our thinking?
  Why don't you do your own thinking and let the finnish-speaking and
  swedish-speaking units integrate the finnish army?

   Per Wahlund
   Dept. of Scientific Computing
   Uppsala University, SWEDEN
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: m05751@foxtrot.data.st.statoil.no (Bjorn Hell Larsen)
Subject: Re: Want to learn to read and speak Norwegian.  Recommendations?
Reply-To: bjla@statoil.no
Organization: Statoil, Norway
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:04:25 GMT


In article <1992Dec12.103320.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> tostbye@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
>
>It is ussually not called 'high Norwegian', but I think most people
>in Norway will agree that the Norwegian that is spoken in Bergen, the
>previous capital of Norway, is regarded as a superior form of Norwegian.
>It sounds better, and is also linguistically a lot more coherent than
>Norwegian spoken elsewhere in Norway.
>

Heh.

>
>Spend a year in Bergen.
>

Now pull the other one, will you?

I'd rather spend a year in Tijuana.



		I BERGEN

		I Bergen g}r di s} e rige
		nere i byen og snige
		} kj|be opp nips og p}sar me' slips
		} e raske f|r prisane stige
		ein investeringslyst uden lige

		I Bergen der folk} har gjeller
		sedde handelsmenn opp sine feller
		} fange deg vips, mens di lokke me' chips
		og hermetiske frikadeller
		s} fan'kje e gode heller

		I Bergen finns bergenserinner,
		s} e Bergensutgaven ta kvinner
		di e store } sm} } kan komma } g}
		di e giftige eller veninner
		di blir eldre som }rene svinner

		I Bergen by der har di pale
		det e ein fisk uden h}ve } hale
		an' ligne mest p} file' s} vidt eg kan se
		men det e jo heller'kje gale
		bare di ikkje e smale

		I Bergen e Brann fotballaget
		} det har sitt bedre dage
		for det e s}nn med Brann
		'an kan slokkas me vann
		s} har du ein slange p} tage
		kan du spyladi lenger tebage

		I Bergen har folk} i byen
		symmehud p} paraplyen
		der spilene e ein del av sjellette'
		-- } n} finn eg'kje n}ge s} rime
		s} de e liga greit eg besvime!

			- Svein Tang Wa

--
Bjorn Hell Larsen                              Specialization is for insects.
bjla@statoil.no		                                      -- Lazarus Long
STATOIL DATA/TD
Stavanger, Norway

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: Jakob Nielsen <nielsen@bellcore.com>
Subject: Danish newspapers in New York
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A752471520010D9A@hip10.bellcore.com>
X-Xxdate: Mon, 14 Dec 92 19:13:41 GMT
Organization: Bellcore - Bell Communications Research
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 19:17:18 GMT

I finally found a place in New York where they sell Danish newspapers:
Tower Books on 4th St. (behind their huge record shop). When I was there,
they had a Sunday Jyllands-Posten for $5.00. Somewhat of a markup, but then
most other international newsstands I have checked out so far have only had
Swedish newspapers at best.
--
Jakob Nielsen, nielsen@bellcore.com, fax (201)  829-2645
Bellcore, MRE 2P-370, 445 South St., Morristown, NJ 09792-1910, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: The Swedenfinns seek official support from Finland
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:57:11 GMT

An other attempt with better english...)

: This is a translation of the latest issue of Ruotsinsuomalainen (Swedenfinn)
:  of the 10.12.1992.
: 
: FOR THE MINORITY STATuS IS SEEKED SUPPORT FROM FINLAND (was the headline)
: 
: For the aim of the Swedenfinns to attain an ethnic and lingual minority
: status is seeked now official support from Finland.
: 
: The issue is taken on the agenda of The Committee of the Immigration and
: Refugee issues set by Finland's cabinet, (Suomen valtioneuvoston asettama
: pakolais- ja siirtolaisasiain neuvosto), who gave the declaration of
: the minority status made by the swedenfinnish organisations for the Finnish
: governement last friday. (4.12.92) The Committee of the Immigration and
: Refugee issues for their part received the proclamation of the minority
  status during the  Roots in Finland-festivities last august. 
: 
: According to the committee, Finland shall include the Swedenfinnish
  aim for the minority status into  the issues in official  negotiations
  between Finland and Sweden.
: 
: On the communication made by the committee is reminded prime minister Carl
: Bildt charactrazing the situation of the swedenfinns. Bild has given
  a statement that due to a long common history of the countries,
   finnish settlements in Sweden and great numbers of swedenfinns give
  a right to give a special status for the swedenfinns.
: 
: 
: Ps.
: My comments,
: 
: Very difficult to translate, because of byreucratical text!
 You should notice that Carl Bildt is a concervative. During the social
  democratical time swedish
: governements aimed only to assimilate swedenfinns by all means.
: As the peak of all swedish faschism Ms. Anita Gradin declared publicly
: "Sweden is monolingual and remains monolingual". She is a prominent
: politician in Sweden, normally you heard such speeches in South-Africa
: and in Nazi-Germany but Sweden is no exeption. Her speeches however did
: not rise international publicity. Source for the latest statement is
: an issue of Etel{-Suomen Sanomat, a respectful newspaper in Finland,
: issue of 11.12.92
: 
: Down with swedish faschism and oppression of the finns in Sweden!
: regards,
: jarmo ryyti
: 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: nkjrm@taxus.uib.no (Rolf Manne)
Subject: Re: Traditional Swedish Christmas song
Organization: University of Bergen
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 08:48:18 GMT

In article <hberg.272@polisci.umn.edu> hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg) writes:

>In article <1992Dec11.201009.5582@math.ucla.edu> alex@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alex Langley) writes:


>>I've always wondered what Sma gradorna (The Little Frogs) had to do with 
>>Christmas.  Could someone please explain this?

>Nothing, really.  It's just that at Xmas time the radio & TV people try to 
>be cute, put a whole lot of kids on the air, and Sm} grodorna is one of the 
>few things they've learned in school, so that's what you get.

Smaa grodorna is part of the Swedish "Dans kring granen" (Dance 
around the Christmas Tree) activity. Many of these songs and dances have
nothing to do with Christmas, but this is the time of the year when you
do this. Some songs have to do with winter: "The fox hurries over
the ice" but there is also "We are musicians all the way from Skaraborg"
and "Ritsch ratsch filibom bom bom" and "Three little ladies were once
going to the market of Nora". 

In my opinion, "The Little Frogs" is by far the best of these songs.
The "Quack ack ack" part, however, becomes more demanding as one gets older.
A friend of mine, who retired two years ago, refused to take part in
that at the Lucia celebration at the Swedish church in Oslo.

Norwegians don't dance around the Christmas tree, they walk, singing
hymns, in particular "Glade jul" (Stilla natt, Silent night). There is
only one non-religious Christmas song that Norwegian children know: "Paa
laaven sitter nissen" (The alve sits in the barn with his
Christmas porridge, so good and sweet..).

What do people do in Denmark and Finland?

Rolf Manne
e-mail Rolf.Manne@uib.no
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg)
Subject: Re: Sma grodorna
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:42:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.073954.8895@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) writes:


>translates as 'young woman', i.e. 'jomfru', 'jungfru' and 'Jungfrau'. I even
>once heard a rumour, that the Greek or Hebrew word for Virgin Mary was as
>likely to have the meaning 'young woman' as 'sexually chaste'.

Since Latin texts sometimes refer to 'virgo intacta' there seem to be good 
reason to believe that a distinction was made between 'virgo' = young 
woman, and 'v. intacta' = unknown (in the old sense) maiden.  Cf. jungfru 
vs. or|rd jungfru.
From: etxmow@garbod04.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: How Finns look at their neighbours
Date: 12 Dec 92 13:19:57 GMT
Organization: Ericsson

etxjdry@caddie.ericsson.se (John Dryselius TG/HB) writes:

>I guess you misunderstood his intention Jarmo. As I understand Mats
>it is you he's making fun of - not the "krigsbarn". And you cannot be
>taken for being serious.

    You got it wrong there, none of the qoutes in your article are from
    my pen. It was another poster who joked about the "krigsbarn".

    Just to set the record straight.

    Regards,
    Mats Winberg


>/John
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hans@iesd.auc.dk (Hans Huttel)
Subject: Re: Rasists-conference in Sweden
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:13:23


In <1992Dec3.110412.14026@kth.se> d89-jsp@nada.kth.se (Jan Sparrendahl) wrote: 

>	Did you get this from Dagens Nyheter? It would be nice if
>	someone could check this up because this is normally
>	attributed to Gustav III and only in Stockholm and 
>	Norrko"ping. Maybe K XII allowed some specific indeviduals
>	to settle. 

I _think_ it was indeed Gustav III, but wasn't Karl XII quite fond of
Turkey [the country] ?

- Hans

--
Hans H{\"u}ttel                          - hans@iesd.auc.dk  
Mathematics and Computer Science
Aalborg University, Fredrik Bajersvej 7E,
9220 Aalborg, DENMARK                     Ad slagne veje ?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: etxmow@garboc34.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg)
Subject: Re: Travel in the Nordic Countries
Organization: Ericsson
Distribution: world,local
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:37:34 GMT

evans@ece.arizona.edu writes:


>Would someone please let me know, when is the best time
>of the year to visit the Nordic Countries, when
>the weather is bearable and there aren`t that
>many tourists.

   There are never many tourists here, due to the prices :-)
   If the weather is a concern go anytime between early May and late
   September.   

   Mats Winberg
   Stockholm, Sweden


>Thanks.

>Glen Evans
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: petterss@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jouko Kalevi Pettersson)
Subject: Re: How Finns look at their neighbours / comment
Organization: University of Helsinki
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:29:14 GMT

Olli-Jukka Paloneva (opaloneva@abo.fi) wrote:
> In article <Bz0EAz.6D@cs.vu.nl> Festen RHT, rhtfest@cs.vu.nl writes:
> >So actually some Swedes are implying that Swedes should think well
> >of Finns, because they think so well of Sweden...
> >
> >What a wonderful world. Peace! (happy :-) smiley)
> 
> You're right sister.
> 
> The Finnish-Swedish relations are like that
> of younger brother and elder sister, who behaves
> like mommy.
> 
Okey, Sweden is our elder brother (btw Jarmo had the brother in 
Sodertelje), but in the cold world, where nobody knows Finland,
it's good to own a well-known brother, who confirms, that we are
not a former Soviet-bloc country.

So when people ask me, what kind of country is Finland, I reply 
it's like Sweden. I think it doesn't give people a wrong idea.
I wonder, why some people in Finland try to jump over Sweden on
their way out into the wide world. It's good to belong to the
Nordic family.

Jouko. 
-- 
Jouko Pettersson                 Email: Jouko.Pettersson@Helsinki.Fi
Department of Biochemistry
University of Helsinki
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 11:42:52 EST
From: <2971047@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: What language is this?

What language is "Nollaig Nait Cugat It" (Which is supposed to mean
"Merry Christmas")?

I don't mean to mock the question (or do I?)  But to me it sounds *Klingon*.
I don't know if they celebrate Christmas though..

Sincerely,
                                Close friend of JLP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Dementia spreading in Social Democratic Party
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 10:02:55 GMT

Bob Hammarberg (hberg@polisci.umn.edu) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec11.103748.20883@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
: 
: >Besides that he is swedish speaker...
:  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Now what does the guy's linguistic abilities have to do with this?  

I agree; nothing, I also speak swedish...

: And Jarmo persists in claiming that he is not prejudiced against Swedes!

So according to your world picture all swedish speakers are swedes.
Typical product of swedish grundskolan?...some chauvinism too?

: How does the above differ in any way from:
: 
: Besides that he is a Jew....
: Besides that he is a Negro...
: 
No, no besides  he is a swedish speaker...speaks better than I...

Comrade (*) U.Sundquist is an upper class finlandswede who is a member
of Finland's Social Democratical Party ("a worker's party"), who has never
done real work, if making politics is not considerd as real work,
who had never been appointed to a managing director of STS-Bank
("worker's bank") if he had not been a member of Social Democratic Party.
(It was a present from fellow comrades.)

He managed with a total lack of any business and work experience to destroy
STS-Bank which has two options a. bancruptcy b. a fusion. Comrade U.Sundquist
enjoyed while being a chairman at the Party, a huge salary from his, by himself
destroyed, bank. He suddenly "noticed" a week or couple before the collapse
of his bank to resign from that post with a  golden handshake.
A real represtant of workers party.
Enjoyed two salaries but working for just one.

: Why not come right out and say it, Jarmo:  En svenskj{vel igen!
: 
No, no, a finnj{vel igen,
jarmo ryyti

PS.
*) Comrade= a person who has a severe dementia today, can be found in
Social Democratic Party (plenty) and in other leftist movements (also plenty)
and in Greens.

**) A Coat Turner (takink{{nt{j{)= related to the previous decease, but not 
as much dementia, can suddenly remember something is the circumstances
are suitable. (Can be found in all parties...if necessary)
From: hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg)
Subject: Re: Learning Norwegian
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:51:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.133209@IASTATE.EDU> khelgese@IASTATE.EDU (Kjetil Helgesen) writes:

>Even though I would also recommend to learn "bokmaal" to most people, it will
>depend a little on what the purpose of learning it is.  If it is learning a
>little before going to Norway to visit relatives, I would recommend "nynorsk" to
>people with relatives in the west part of southern Norway, especially the
>northwest (north of Bergen).  It is a fact that "nynorsk" was made artificially,
>but it was based on Norwegian dialects.  Also, I would think that most written
>languages are artificially constructed, including bokmaal.  The fact that
>"nynorsk" was artificially made later than "bokmaal" does not make it less
>worth.

Why don't you just avoid all these problems and learn Finlandssvenska 
instead.  The Norwegians will understand you, but won't resent you for being 
a Swede... 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tonypaso@polaris.utu.fi (Tony Matti Juhani Paso)
Subject: Re: Travel in the Nordic Countries
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Distribution: world,local
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 01:18:38 GMT

evans@ece.arizona.edu writes:


>Would someone please let me know, when is the best time
>of the year to visit the Nordic Countries, when
>the weather is bearable and there aren`t that
>many tourists.

>Thanks.

>Glen Evans


I'm not sure you can have it both ways.Whenever the weather is bearable
(as it now is not) we tend to have the tourist season. The weather may or
may not be fine from mid-May to early September and in mid-January and
February. Don't come in October-December, if you're after bearable
weather. 
Even though we might have the highest tourist season, that doesn't
mean that tourists actually flock here. You should be able to 
find accomodation quite easily throughout summer. During the summer
months hotels usually have cheaper summer prices also.

Tony.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic