HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brendan@cs.uq.oz.au (Brendan Mahony)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: A Quick Proof
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:49:43 GMT
Reply-To: brendan@cs.uq.oz.au

In <jhansen.702828689@convex.convex.com> jhansen@convex.com (James Hansen) writes:

>A fetus is not a human being with a conscience and a soul,

Where do you get these superstitions from?
Show me a sould or a conscience.

--
Brendan Mahony                   | brendan@batserver.cs.uq.oz       
Department of Computer Science   | heretic: someone who disgrees with you
University of Queensland         | about something neither of you knows
Australia                        | anything about.
From: 160955r@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: THE IMPLICATIONS OF ABORTION ON OUR SOCIETY
Date: 17 Apr 1992 07:02:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

One simple way to assess the cohesiveness of a position on an issue -
in our case the pro-lifers' on abortion is to check for consistency.

Q1: Why do pro-lifers spend hours and hours on the net and/or picketing
clinics and hospitals?

A: Because they feel it's their duty to save lives. Fetuses are human beings
in their view, so they want to minimize in any way they can the loss of
fetuses.

Q2: If saving lives is what they are motivated by,  and if they have limited
resources to use towards this end (time, money.etc) should not they try to
save the largest possible number of lives, for a given amount of resources they have, whatever how much that represents? 

A: Yes indeed. If life is what they care about, they should then use their
resources to save the largest possible number of lives, given their resou-
rces.

Q3: Do pro-lifers do that?

A: No they do not. It costs roughly US$10.00/month to keep a child alive in
the Thirld World. Most of the pro-lifers spend more than ten bucks a month
and achieve little. If all pro-lifers who post on this net got second jobs
the resulting wages would literally and undoubtedly save hundreds of palpable
lifes. However, they prefer instead to endlessly prattle on the net. 

Q4: These having been established , can we still believe that pro-lifers are
so agitated w.r to the abortion issue because they care about human life?

A: No, that does not stand elementary questioning, unless one is prepared
to argue that :
	a) pro-lifers are irrational or misinformed or both
        b) pro-lifers care about American (or: close-to-home-lives) more 
than they care for lives elswhere (i.e countries where considerable num-
bers of lives could be saved cheaply)

Q5: What then , can be the motivation of their actions and opinions versus
the issue of abortion? 

Any takers...?

-- 
Radu T. Tomescu at UCBerkeley
Department of Economics
From: kwelch@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Lester Bangs)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: A sensible Kevin (was THE IMPLICATIONS OF ABORTION ON OUR SOCIETY)
Date: 14 Apr 92 04:56:25 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Cj
>Kevin William
>|CJ
>|>Kevin B

>|>|But you people who promote child murders should keep this in mind:
>|>What is it with the name "Kevin"?  I haven't seen a
>|>sensible, coherent poster with that name in years.
>|CJ, I'm hurt. Deeply hurt.

>It is with deep humility that I proffer my apologies
>to Kevin William Ryan (hereinafter referred to as 
>"Kevin William"), for lumping him with the Darcies,
>Brawleys, and Welches of the net.  Kevin William
>has never, to my knowledge, been obsessed with
>calling people pro-death, proving that starvation
>does not cause death, or weasling out of paying
>child support.  He has always been a fine, upstanding
>young poster, and a credit to his name.

What grabastic dribble.
So, other than calling (occasionally) prochoicers pro-death and saying that
starvation, I'm fine too.  Thanks, CJ.

>Kevin William, please accept my abject apology.


You see, CJ.  Your generalizations are never true.


>cj@eno.corp.sgi.com      C J Silverio/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720

kcw


--
(=- Mr. Kevin C. Welch to you -=)		Science wiLl Be truth for Life
(  kwelch@eniac.seas.upenn.edu	)		TechNology as Nature
						In foRtran tongue the Answer
10000 Maniacs ->				with weAlth and pRominence
From: jbates@pinocchio.encore.com (John Bates)
Subject: Re: Dennis Hall posts private E-mail!
Organization: Encore Computer
	<1992Apr14.202946.1687@csusac.csus.edu>
	<JBATES.92Apr14161738@pinocchio.pinocchio.encore.com>
	<1992Apr15.033322.15605@crd.ge.com>
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:35:31

In article <1992Apr15.033322.15605@crd.ge.com> 
keegan@kazoo.crd.ge.com (James G Keegan Jr) writes:
>jbates@pinocchio.encore.com (John Bates) writes:
>-> probably chaney posting as cs060110@athena.ecs.csus.edu ( ) writes:
>-> >In article <1992Apr14.033055.22143@rice.edu> patrick@is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey) writes:
>-> >>Cut it out, Chaney.  We're wise to you.  Comprende?
>-> 
>-> >Chaney? What is this, a practical joke that won't die? 
>-> 
>-> >And seeing as that the proof is that I am not Chaney, and
>-> >seeing that someone who's tried to imply that I am, has been
>-> >busted by their sysadmin, I advise you to cut this out unless
>-> >you want to be the next person that gets brought down.
>-> 
>--> >- Dennis Hall

>sure, chaney.

>-> I don't know, he sounds kind of like DJR to me. With a little
>-> bit of the Kevins thrown in for spice.

>hell no. he's smarter than all of the kevins, except ryan, and
>djr would eat him up. if you had any doubt that it was chaney,
>note the sysadmin threat above and remember dan bredy.

	Of course I wasn't talking about Kevin Ryan. It must be
tough on him, to get lumped in with the other Kevins. And there
aren't enough spelling mistakes to be DJR. Chaney was also the only
person I've ever seen who called Usenet "UNIX". (In "Dennis Hall" post
the first, regarding pro-life women)

	But if it was Chaney, don't you think that there would be an
airplane somewhere in there?

John

P.S. Oh, wait! "next person that gets brought down"! Dead giveaway!
He still thinks he's a fighter pilot!
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: mon@cray.com (Muriel Nelson)
Subject: Re: Response to "Bible and Abortion"
Keywords: contraceptive, abortion
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:01:56 CDT

In article <1992Apr7.221437.3526@pegasus.com> tas@pegasus.com (Len Howard) writes:
>Good questions, Muriel.  The oral contraceptives were just recently
>approved for use by non-smokers up to the age of 50.  The tri-phasic
>form of ocs is much less likely to cause side effects, and
>acceptability by the women has really increased over what it used to
>be with the old high dose pills.
>
>When you talk about extremely young girls, I assume you are talking
>about adolescents who have established a menstrual cycle.  In this
>case their own endogenous hormones are far stronger than the OCs and
>there is little if any concern about hormonal effects.  Remember that
>we always have to talk about relative risks.  It is obviously better
>that the young woman not have intercourse until she is ready to have a
>baby.  

I disagree here, if this is what you really meant to say. I think 
it's a good thing that a young woman not have intercourse until
she's ready (physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, and
spiritually) to be sexually active. Many women are _never_ ready
for a baby, and I'm not sure I ever knew anyone who was completely
ready for a baby!

I believe that the question of when an individual is ready for 
sex (How do I know when I'm ready, mom?) is very complex. I spend 
a great deal of time discussing such subjects these days.

>         But often that is not the choice with which we are presented.
>When selecting between use of OCs and pregnancy at age 14, the use of
>OCs is by far the safer.
>
We agree here. 

muriel
standard disclaimer

Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity
From: eeb1@ellis.uchicago.edu (e elizabeth bartley)
Subject: Re: THE IMPLICATIONS OF ABORTION ON OUR SOCIETY
Reply-To: eeb1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 15:41:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr1.235019.27054@cs.dal.ca>
franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) writes:
>In <EJONES.92Mar31153007@umassmed.ummed.edu>
ejones@umassmed.ummed.edu (Erik Jones) writes:
>>Steve Franklin:

>>   >   No matter how much you try and inanimate the fetus, and tell the
>>   >girl 

>>Woman.  Get it through your skull.  Woman.  Women get pregnant, BOY.
>>Women have to make these decisions, BOY.  Don't attempt to place yourself
>>above 51% of the human race.

>Sheeezzz. Gotta watch the typos. When they can't pick apport at your 
>logic, they pick apart at a) your faith then b) your typos, colloqs,
>and general slips... *sigh* My mistake. I place myself ahead of very
>few people, but I think I'm a step ahead of you and your ignorant
>arguments Erik...

Typos are spelling errors along the lines of typing 'the' as 'teh'
and do not signify anything beyond a slip of the fingers.  Typing
'girls' for 'women' is an error made by your mind which may indicate a
lack of respect for women, or may simply indicate that you were
thinking of irresponsible teenagers at the time and didn't say what
you meant.  I'm not accusing you of misogyny; I think doing that based
on one slip is downright stupid.  But I don't think you can pass this
off as a typo.

-- 
"There is no freedom on earth or in any star for those who deny freedom to
others."           - Elbert Hubbard

Pro-Choice       Anti-Roe                             - E. Elizabeth Bartley
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.computers
From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Subject: Expiry tests and Social Pleasantry
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 22:08:59 GMT

tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly) writes:

] Drieux,  thanks for sending a response.  I tried to mail you, but my
] mailer couldn't resolve your address.

1. try an nslookup, and you will find our MX recorded holder.

2. when all else fails, try wetware.com!drieux as a 'bangpath'
presuming you are doing this in /bin/sh, otherwise you will
need to "\" the "!" so as not to get /bin/csh to confuse this
with an 'escape sequence' ...

] The purpose was to see if my new site was holding posts received over a weekend.
] (You may recall that I was complaining that in Glasgow it wasn't and so I was
]  missing a lot of stuff).

I will resist the temptation to comment on Glasgow, and, well
'missing a lot of stuff' out of deference to an old comrade in
arms, PO Collins of Her Majesty's RN.... and the other lads from
up there in, well, lets just say one of God's many Marvels....

] The result is that my site (well one of the two) *does* retain the posts, so
] I shouldn't miss em anymore.

when in wonder, when in doubt, have a chat with your sys.admin,
some of them can actually speak human..... albeit, it might
help if you were able to translate it all into UnixSpeak to
begin with....  Just wait for the Confirmation that they have
in fact acknowledged your request to open a socket to them, or
otherwise they will most likely bit bucket your conversation and
get a bit confused. Also Remember to send a SIGCHILD so that they
do not have a 'zombie' process left hanging... but of course this
is all contingent upon the fundamental architecture of your sys.Admin,
and local configuration should be found in 
their /use/local/include/lib/sys/admin/stdio.h or
most likely in /usr/unsupported/include/lib/sys/admin/human/speaking.h.

{ a young lady friend of mine says, "If all else fails,
try the 'reset button' _OR_ CTRL_ALT_DEL to try and reboot your 
sys.admin, depending again upon OS." }


But enough of this social pleasantry, it might confuse folks
who Implicitly Understand that NO COMPROMISE is allowed between
those of US who are RIGHT and y'all who are the ToolsOfTheDevil[tm] [1]

ciao
drieux

[1] soon to be released for windows.....


ps: isn't debugging NewsTransportSoftware a major Annoyance????



-- 
EOT 
No More Written InPut 
Why are you Looking Here?
From: 00jlrushton@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: dead dead things
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:13:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: bsu-ucs.1992Apr10.161328.6106

hey bible slapper......................



who made you god......................

anarchy.....................

do fetus taste good or does the doctor throw in the trash...............

wondering...
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: margoli@watson.ibm.com (Larry Margolis)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: kebbie wants a "neutral adjudicator" to control women's bodies
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:39:39 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Organization: The Village Waterbed
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

In  <1992Apr13.003258.725@rotag.mi.org>  kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes:
> Larry ran away from the hypothetical.

I didn't "run away"; I explained why I feel there's nothing there worth
discussing.  I'm sorry if you're bothered that nobody wants to talk about
your little hypothetical, but you can't force people to talk about things
just because *you* think they should.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: zeus@aero.org (Dave Suess)
Subject: Re: A question ... [the REAL issue]
Summary: Look! A fetus! Oops, it's a pregnant woman. Didn't see her at first.
Keywords: forced childbirth
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 01:50:43 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.225741.25161@liebe.uucp>,
	 kevin@liebe.uucp (Kevin Brawley) writes:
>The problem is your nearsighted inability to see the REAL issue.  If the
>fetus is human, it's murder.  If the fetus isn't human, then it doesn't 
>matter at all.  It's the ONLY issue.

	Great; if unwillingly-pregnant women aren't involved
	in the REAL issue, then there's no pro-choice argument
	at all, and the issue disappears in a cloud of blue smoke.
	Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, people know better.
				Dave Suess	zeus@aerospace.aero.org
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity
From: kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy)
Subject: Re: The Value of a Man (repost)
Organization: Who, me???
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 15:37:22 GMT

In article <ka6tjmp@rpi.edu> cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker) writes:
>
>Actually I read an article on child support about a month ago.  The
>figures they gave for NY state were that 90% of non-custodial parents
>had been late in support payments at some point, about 70% were 
>currently behind in support payments, and about 20% had never made
>a single court-mandated CS payment.  (This is from memory, I can
>look these up if anyone's interested.)  The figures were the same
>whether the NCP was male or female.  (I personally have a female
>relative who is making CS payments to an ex-husband who has a LOT
>more money than she does.)  If the NCP had moved, the CP had to
>spend their own money to track them down (although I understand
>that this is the situation in only a few states).
>
>Clearly, the current child-support system is not working.

{sarcasm on}

Oh, I'm sure it'll work a whole lot better if we stick poison-filled
tags on the ears of all NCP's and rip out their organs at random. 

{sarcasm off}

In fact, while we're at it, why not decorate the tags with swastikas 
(sorry Nora)? Seems fitting...

								- Kevin
From: JKH107@psuvm.psu.edu (Joy Haftel)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy, Bloody Hypocrisy
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:37:01 GMT
 <1992Apr13.153353.18699@sdd.hp.com> <18070@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
 <1992Apr13.185646.15354@cs.dal.ca>
Organization: State Penn

In article <1992Apr13.185646.15354@cs.dal.ca>, franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve
Franklin) says:
>
>Ron, you're so wRONg. You see, I am not a babe, I do not babble, and I
>do know what I speak of. Clearly you are the idiot if you refute
>my statistics. 100% for abstinence friend. I don't have to look THAT up
>in the World Almanac either. I didnt' impose the practice on her...
> I just told her what works.

100%????

But...but...what about Mary?

Or are you a Heretic too?  :-)


Joy Haftel               "We are not sure of sorrow,
JKH107@PSUVM                   And joy was never sure."
                                --Swinburne
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King)
Subject: Re: Dennis Hall posts private E-mail!
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 20:15:26 GMT
Reply-To: dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King)


In article <1992Apr11.233846.13880@csusac.csus.edu> cs06011@athena.ecs.csus.edu () writes:

Many people have been telling Inturdgent to cut it out.  To stop
posting from this account fraudulently claiming he is
Dennis Hall.  But if he quits we wouldn't have the wonderful laughs
we are now getting from the little turd.  Reading these knowing
it's Inturdgent makes it a lot more fun to read his rambling.


[Speaking about making a GIF of himself]
>        How do you make a GIF? And besides, I really dislike being
>around him. I guess I could find a picture of him somewhere, but I
>really do not want to put out the effort. Getting near him can result in
>an ulcer-maker of a debate. How about ME?


[And then later after reading Gordon's .sig he writes:]
>Who IS Dan Bredy?

You're a laugh a minute Inturdgent.  Keep it up.  Don't stop just 'cause
they tell you to.

>- Dennis Hall
Yea Sure.  We believe you!

Dan King
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: dsh@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Subject: Re: A question for Welch and any prolifer
Reply-To: dsh@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 16:28:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.014654.21409@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> 
      smccabe@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Sarah A McCabe) writes:

> I would like to nominate the following as "Most Ludicrous Statement of the
> Month".  Geez, if this is a fair example of Doug's logic, I think we have
> a rival for Kevin "pregnancy is like a harmless slavery" Welch!

It's not ludicrous, it's a fact. A mother cannot normally act to
cause birth to happen, birth is an event that happens to her. 
Birth can be induced with drugs, but that's not what I was 
referring to. If you would have responded to the rest of my post,
instead of pulling my remarks out of context, then you would
have contributed something to the discussion. Please give me
the same courtesy that I extend to you and every other poster
to t.a. 

And no, I do not believe that "pregnancy is like a harmless
slavery," I think Mr. Welch was way out of line for making that
remark.  

>In article <1992Apr7.021949.12784@ncsu.edu> dsh@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>>
>>Birth is an event, not an action taken by the mother. 
>
>Sarah McCabe


Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy)
Subject: Re: THE IMPLICATIONS OF ABORTION ON OUR SOCIETY
Organization: Who, me???
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 05:42:34 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.221053.11054@odin.corp.sgi.com> cj@eno.corp.sgi.com (C J Silverio) writes:
>
>What incoherent nonsense!  Have you anything to say
>about the issues, Brawley?  So far you only seem 
>interested in insulting as many people as possible.

He's probably just following the sterling example set by the Pro-choice Peanut
Gallery. Ever wonder why the Moral High Ground is such *expensive* real 
estate, CJ?

							- Kevin
From: mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu (M. Price)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Some Park Service Estimates (formerly: The March in D.C.)
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:16:51 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Apr13.200014.9275@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:

>From article by judi@wam.umd.edu (Jay T Stein -- saying hi to Betty):
>>
>> When a man loves a woman, he supports her right to choose.


>When a man and woman love each other, they don't kill the child they've
>made together

All together now..."I AGREE WITH SUZANNE! I AGREE WITH SUZANNE!"
History in the making--Suzanne has made a point EVERYONE on the .net can
agree with!
      .
Of course, even though her posting obviously has nothing to do with
abortion (and might be more appropriate in talk.the.bleeding.obvious), I
feel I must add that a man and woman, lovin' each other or not, have an
absolute right to agree to terminate a pregnancy and follow this
agreement through, or failing such an agreement, the woman has an
absolute right to make this decision herself.





                       MP

P.S. Suzanne, wouldn't you be better off asking a male poster if he was
"down" to self-control? 8)
.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
Subject: Re: The Voices of Women
Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:28:42 GMT

kevin@liebe.uucp (Kevin Brawley) writes:

> I guess "brainless blobs of flesh" (ie. CJ Silverio) will continue to spread
> their vicious deceptions.  But for the record ... Most abortions are performed
> on HUMAN BEINGS who would look remarkably similar to CJ.  If appearances are
> all that matter ("...blobs of flesh...") then CJ has just made himself a
> candidate for the first experimental post-partum abortion.

Well, Mr. Logic, frolicing on talk.abortion with your unique brand of 'logic?'

*** "brainless blobs of flesh" (ie. CJ Silverio) - ad hominem attack
*** "vicious deceptions" - emotionally loaded term
*** MURDER - blatent, unsupported assertion
*** pro-death - lack of courtesy[1]

You never answered my question over in that other abortion newsgroup.  Remember?
If abortion is murder, what is the appropriate punishment for the woman and her
doctor?  For that matter, you never supported your assertion that abortion is
murder.

> BTW woman suffer "TRAUMA" (pro-death words) by bearing children.
> Children suffer   MURDER  (my words) by being MURDERED.
> 
> Don't ever forget that.

As Susan said, what does this have to do with abortion?

[1] Remember how I asked that you refer to political groups by their preferred 
name?  Remember how I asked you how you would like it if I referred to you
as "pro-forced-breeding-mare?"  Apparently, you _want_ to be treated with in
a hostile manner.  As I said to Steve Franklin yesterday, if you post flame
bait, don't be surprised if you get flamed.

-- 
Chris Lyman  /  email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov  /  #include standard_disclaimers
T.S.A.K.C.   /  "If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?" - Art Hoppe
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: judi@wam.umd.edu (Stein.  Jay Stein.)
Subject: Re: does anyone here deal with history????
Originator: judi@rac1.wam.umd.edu
Organization: WACDTF, Washington, D.C.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 00:34:35 GMT

Where it was written: <1992Apr6.050125.10324@wetware.com>
Who wrote it:         drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)

>] = judi@wam.umd.edu (Jay T Stein -- ex-boyfriend of... er, uh, ah....)

>] Wonderful.  I suppose that by the time the RCC gets around to apologizing
>] for what it's doing *today,*  Commander Riker will have retired.

>Excuse me EartherScum, but contrary to popular Myth, He does not
>retire, but runs off, OOOOPS, I'm not at liberty to tell
> mere Earthlings such details.....

Really?  he doesn't retire?  Please tell me who he runs off with... please?
I just *have* to know - was it that wacked-out alien who tried to take over
the big E with that morphine-like game?  Enquiring minds want to know!
--
When a man loves a woman, he supports her right to choose.

     _____     __      __      Pro-woman,      /   -=* Jay T Stein *=-
   |   |      |  \    /        Pro-family,    /
   |   |  in  |   |  |         Pro-child,    <  Internet: judi@wam.umd.edu
|__|   |      |__/    \__      PRO-CHOICE.    \    GEnie: J.STEIN18
                                               \
"[Pregnancy] is like a harmless slavery of sorts."  -- Kevin Welch
"[it's] up to you to disprove [God's] [existence]." -- Gaylord