HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz)
Subject: Re: t// Re: T/ Re: T% Thought for the Day
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:32:51 GMT

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:

>"Richard":

I've been quoted by Mr. Tai.  I wonder what that means?

>MENSA is simply one more dangerous way in which one group of people 
>attempt to set themselves apart -- and by 'apart' one invariably finds 
>'superior', since few people desire to join an organization which claims 
>its members are 'inferior' -- from the rest of the populace.  Of such 
>'harmless' little groups are born the divisive philosophies which feed 
>nationalism, racism, and separate us from each other.

I presume you feel the same way about the Boy Scouts, the DAR, the VFW,
the Elks, Moose, Water Buffalo, Shriners, your local Pop Warner football 
team, and certainly any religious groups.  C'mon, Scott, let's have your 
complete list of dangerous organizations, so we can be sure to avoid them 
all as a very special favor to you.  Is the Garden Club safe?  

"invariably"... words like that beg for proof, or at least evidence.  I
claim myself as a counter-example as I am secure in my knowledge of my
strengths and weaknesses and have no need to be 'superior'.  

Well, hell, let's just all be one happy family.  Let's all be exactly
the same.  Let's all be Scott Tai.  What a happy world it would be...

Scott, since you certainly don't belong to any dangerous organizations,
what, praytell, is your excuse for your own behavior?  I see no one here
more divisive than you who would, given the opportunity, break people
up from their chosen associations.

-rich
-- 
             Richard H. Schwartz, Scheduling Systems Inc.,
            1000 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA  02138
                  (617) 864 8330; FAX (617) 864 8377
                          rhs@world.std.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: postmaster@draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Subject: Re: "wrong" answers on IQ tests
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 06:13:22 GMT

>In article <66679@cup.portal.com>, Tim W Smith writes:
>
>> I picked up a book called something like "Test Your IQ" or "Know You
>> IQ" or something like that (clearly, the next book I should read is
>> "How To Organize You Library"!).
>
>Is this the Arco book?  It's really funny, although not intentionally
>so.

No, I believe they're a pair of old Penguin paperbacks, by Eysenck.
I've seen no evidence that any of the tests in either the Penguin
paperbacks or the Arco book have been normalized on a significant sample.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 08:42:21 GMT

crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford) writes:
>Young-Kyu Yoo:
>> Having cast natal horoscopes for myself, friends, and total
>> strangers, I've been repeatedly struck by the uncanny accuracy of
>> the results.
>
>Yeah, yeah.  And back in high school I used to positively *scare*
>people with uncannily accurate tarot card readings.  But I never
>believed in cartomancy.  The cards were just a prop to expedite a
>little flim-flam.
>
>(More when I catch up with the backlog.)
>_________________________________________________________
>Matt Crawford       crawdad@fncent.fnal.gov      Fermilab

Oooh! Crawdad is back. Well, I've been getting chart info - one poster said
they'd send it if I wanted, wondering if I've been swamped. Go ahead, I have
about a half-dozen. I've decided to work more closely with two, but I think
I will go ahead and do them all, over time.

There's a curious thing about the occult, Crawdad. It comes back to bite you.

Scene: Crawdad delivers a *smashing* tarot reading. The person walks away,
their life forever changed. Something Crawdad tells them makes them think
deeply, and they realize they'd been trapped in some false perceptions.
They change their mind, and their life improves greatly. When they think
about Crawdad, they're so grateful! And impressed with Tarot too.
Meanwhile, Crawdad thinks to himself, "what marks these fools are," as he
chucks the deck over his shoulder a' la Steve Dallas from Bloom County.

Poignant, isn't it?

I'll be getting to the charts this weekend.
Now, if only work would quit interfering - Hey, if I'm so smart,
why ain't I rich? (ponders) Guess I'll have to look into that.

-ecsd
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: "wrong" answers on IQ tests
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:01:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Sep30.160159.24755
Organization: AT&T

In article <15228@claris.com> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.153937.19096@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>> 
>> In article <Sep.28.09.09.24.1992.27295@remus.rutgers.edu> clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
>> >In article <66679@cup.portal.com>, Tim W Smith writes:
[...]
>> >> 	The five designs are capital letters: N A V H and F.
>> >
>> >> There answer is that V is least like the others because it is drawn with
>> >> two lines, while the others are drawn with three.  My answer is that A is
>> >> the least like th others because it divides the plane into two regions
>> >> while the others do not.
[....]
>> BTW, I would say "F", because it's the only letter that does not
>> appear in the word, "Havana".
>
>Ha!  "Q" doesn't appear in the word, "Havana."  (You didn't say that "F" is
>the only word on the list that doesn't appear in the word "Havana.")

Actually, "A" is the only word on the list.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: rec.org.high-iq.misc?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:14:33 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.064350.19446@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>>>cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:
>>>
>>>>side and operates in Brute Force mode. Check out talk.abortion, where 
>>>>one of the sides is outnumbered 10-1 in terms of volume of posters, and 
>>>>the majority merely shouts down the minority opinion. Maybe rationale 
>>>>and reasoning will count with at least some people here (!)
>>>
>>>Well, so far as abortion is concerned I hope it's 10:1 in favor of
>>>the right to have one. Because I'm not interested in seeing it get
>>>discussed as an abstract idea, when women are suffering . . .
>>>in this case, count me as a partisan, DEADLY.
>>
>>This, like many issues in society that are hotly debated, is not
>>nearly so simple as you've implied here.  There are assumptions
>>that are made by both sides that are not only very significant,
>>but currently impossible to prove, and must be taken on faith.
>>Given the veracity of these assumptions, either side could be
>>right.
>
>Yes, either side could be right. So an abstract discussion can take as long
>as it likes in someone's drawing room. Meanwhile, I've already made up my
>mind which of two worlds I'd rather live in. *Especially* if I am female,
>I'd rather live in the world where I can do what *I* want to do, in the
>matter of my own body and the integrity of my own being, without consulting
>self-refreshing stale debates and laws I did not write. That world permits
>my opponents to enact their own system of beliefs within their *own* sphere
>also. All it does not permit, is for others to define reality *for* me
>against my will. So I have no shame in considering the abortion debate closed.
>                                                       ^^^^^^^^
>As a practical matter, I have better things to do than go out and rescue women
>from hysterical people who unilaterally impose upon other people that the issue
>requires everyone's attention - evidently until the hysterics get their way.
>I'd rather spend a semester in a college class on ethics and social philosophy,
>finish the course, make my decision, and have done with it. And I have.


Well, that sounds very nice.  But please don't shut out information.
You might find yourself changing your mind.  Keep in mind that those
hysterical people have shut out information, and that's probably why
they're irrational and hysterical.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com ("Johnson")
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Reply-To: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Wireless Enterprises, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:52:41 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.184937.16807@netcom.com>, yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo) writes:
=)I'd like to point out that cartomancy involves chance (the fall of the cards) and
=)is all too dependent on the interpretations of the reader.  Professional tarot
=)folks also claim that you need some sort of psychic ability to make the cards
=)fall properly.   Are you psychic?
=)
How convenient.  So the bottom line is, they want you to keep coming back
to them instead of trying it yourself.  This is just the kind of thing
that gives charletanism a bad name.

I can't remember who said it, but a comedian pointed out:  "I don't
trust psychics.  They always want me to make an appointment.  Shouldn't
they just know I'm coming?"
=)
=)Personally, I don't think tarot works.  A supposedly psychic reader told me 
=)that I would be involved in a lot of hot sexual relationships this year.  
=)I'm waiting....   :-)   Of course, this is just one data point and doesn't
=)"prove" anything.
Cheer up--there's still a couple months left!  :-)
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Johnson"                              | Don't say words you're gonna regret|
| johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com | Don't let fire rush to your head   |
|                                        |        -- The Alan Parsons Project |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Disclaimer:  It's just my Tourette's Syndrome acting up again.             |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t// t// REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY - 09/28/92
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:37:40 GMT


mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:

|> In article <1992Sep29.003539.28070@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
|> > mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:
|> > |> You like the hatred, don't you?
|> > 
|> > Actually, no.  When I'm writing an article, I know that the MENSA gang
|> > (led by Mike "Yo momma is a ...." Steiner, "Mr Kill File" Hollombe,
|> > and others who joined for ego reasons) will seize any possible opportunity 
|> > they can to criticize, insult, attack, put-down, and flat-out flame any 
|> > part of the articles (not to mention their author) that dare to question 
|> > any policy of MENSA or intelligence testing in general.
|> 
|> Wrong.  I criticize, insult, attack, put-down, and flat-out flame only those
|> people who have insulted, attacked, put-down, and flat-out flamed first.

Bullshit.  You criticize anyone who questions any aspect of MENSA.

|> What you are ignoring is that you are the one who initiated the flames and
|> attacks.  You are reaping what you sowed (to wax Biblical for a moment).  If
|> you are so thin-skinned and insecure that you can not take your own medicine
|> (to mix metaphors), you shouldn't have started it in the first place.  You
|> are merely getting what you deserve.

Methinks you're the insecure one.  Where specifically did I initiate
these "flames and attacks"?  

|> Oh yes, there is another difference; we post under our own names, 
|> whereas you are too much of a coward to post under your own name.

Let me guess:  you don't like Ben Franklin, Samuel Clemens, or Stephen King,
do you?

And what the f***, may I ask, do you need someone's real name for?  
Are you going to pay them a visit?  What is this, some kind of a net 
police, registering names and addresses?  Can't you talk to someone 
without seeing his or her birth certificate?

|> Because those who consider Mensa insignificant and ridiculous are themselves
|> insignificant and ridiculous, and feel the need to vent their frustration
|> about this fact, rather than seek the help they so obviously need.
|> 
|> You are a pathetic representative of the human race, Tai.

This is fascinating.  Now may I ask why the hell are you calling
another poster "pathetic" even though that poster has not attacked you
or said anything insulting to anyone?  What kind of asshole do you
have to be to do that?

And tell me something, because I am trying to understand your pathological 
outburst of hate toward a poster that did not even address his or her rather 
mild article toward you:  what is troubling you?

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
Centennial Campus
From: st15+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sandy Topping)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: I. M. Shirley Wright says...
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:56:29 GMT
	<1992Oct3.044541.18609@u.washington.edu>
Organization: Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

James:

The English language and "C" or "Fortran," etc are SEPARATE languages,
each having its own set of "conventions."  That certainly looks like
apples and oranges to me.  

Also, see Webster for the meaning of "provide."  It does NOT say
anything about MAKING the rules, only "to make preparation to meet a
need, esp. to supply something for sustenance or support."  Personally,
I thought it was very nice of him to write all of those "conventions"
down for the great unwashed to refer to.

Now, if only those who write the manuals detailing the "conventions" of
progamming languages could do so half as well as the compilers of
dictionaries and grammar references...

Sandy
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Date: 3 Oct 92 17:20:04 GMT
Distribution: "world"
Organization: TRW Financial Systems

motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net writes:
>cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:
>>I think Eric's made a fair offer, and I hope someone takes him up on it.
>>I used to be one of astrology's many skeptics, until I noted certain
>>characteristics in people that were startlingly close to what their signs
>>would predict. Call it what you may, it was sufficient evidence for me not 
>>to dismiss astrology completely out of hand.  

>Thats because "what their signs predict" is usually such sweeping
>generalities that they could be applied to anyone.
>
>Back in my highscool psychology class the teacher did a little experiment.
>Everyone was given a copy of their horoscope and told to rate how accurate
>it was. The ratings were generally very good. She then revealed that we
>had all gotten exactly the same description.
>
>I seems to work because notice the hits more than the misses, and at some
>time everyone displays almost any characteristic you can name.

(1) This effect *does* show up, but it's not as severe as you suggest.
(2) Even so, the point would then be - to pay attention to the issues
	As Indicated By The Chart. I leave it to you to assess the meaning of this.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:35:35 GMT

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
>|> Mensa is significant because it keeps us Mensans off the streets.
>
>Now if only it could keep you off the net... *sigh*

Tai - if Mensa rejected you, face it - you can't pass the test.
That may or may not mean anything!

If Mensa didn't reject you - what the fuck is up your ass?

There gets to be a point where this begins to pall. I love to bash,
but when I look up at the clock and see that that's all I've been doing
for a couple hours - with respect to another egomaniac evidently only
half my caliber - I know I've crossed the point of diminishing returns.

Zounds - I just might *quit* replying to Tai. I wonder what would happen 
if everyone here did the same thing. We'd have to write quickly to newcomers
to tell them the Tai history. And to let him rot in his own juice . . .

If you're near 29-30 years old, it will all settle, so get a grip.
*EGO* my friend - *EGO*. Just because yours is full of holes like Swiss Cheese,
why must we continue to cater to it?

Go read Dale Carnegie. Put yourself in the place of the person on the
receiving end of the behavior he endorses there. Never got enough of that,
I guess. Now put yourself back in the first person and see why his book
is a best-seller - not like I follow his rules so often *hey* but I know
about them . . .

-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford)
Subject: Re: point of mensa?
Organization: FERMILAB, Batavia, IL
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 18:28:30 GMT

>=)}crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford) writes:
>=)}>Although I must admit, I'm very dismayed
>=)}>to find that the number of Ms that believe in astrology, crystal
>=)}>power, and other newage sewage is not zero.

'"Johnson"' writes:
>Because it reduces your opinion of Mensa, or because you had hoped to have
>your personal opinions confirmed by a consensus of smart people?  

Neither.  The fact that so many people who cooperate in their own
delusion qualify for Mensa lowers my opinion of the standards Mensa
applies.  ("Lowers" with respect to what I imagined before I joined.)
Or it could be that the population that Mensa selects its two
percent* from is a lot more idiotic than I ever thought possible.

> A key question to ask here, to find a clue to your open-mindedness,
> is: Does this finding make you reconsider your opinions, or dismiss
> Mensa as a group of cranks?

"It is important to keep an open mind, but not so open that your
brains fall out."  I don't consider Mensa a group of cranks.  The
newage-sewage subscribers seem to me to be a very small minority
within Mensa.  As I said above, the thing that surprised me was that
the minority was visibly present.

Are you one of those "radical relativists", Johnson, who believes
that there is no truth so firmly established that its opposite need
not be given equal intellectual status?
_________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford       crawdad@fncent.fnal.gov      Fermilab

* Yes, we all realize that a lot more than 2% of the population can
qualify for Mensa, don't we?
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Magik <== 'ck'
Date: 3 Oct 92 00:04:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.100827.23459@tfs.com>, ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
> 
> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> > ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
> >> For feel. I'm very visual, and calling myself a "magickian" violates my
> >> parsing rules for phonetics. The way you say is the way it is now.
> >> I'm lazy. The extra 'k' is (to me) spurious, and more work, and -damn -
> >> it just *feels* wrong.
> >
> >As a magician (the entertainment kind), I feel the same way.

I mean that I feel the same way about putting the "k" at the end of magic
for the kind of magic that I do.

> Fine. let's share 'magic', and the confused can go to hell.
> I'll keep a few candles lit for them on their way down.
> 
> Where's Claris?

Claris is in Snata Clara, CA; just outside of San Jose near the southern
tip of San Francisco bay.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// Re: t-- Re: t// Re: T/T: Statistics - rec.org.mensa most prolific posters!
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:06:24 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Oct6.025226.28676@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A
Tai) wrote:

> > That's a lie, and you know it.
> > Bullshit.
> > You're wrong.
> > Get a life.
> > Grow up.

Yup; that's because you are a liar and a fraud; what you write is
bullshit; you're rarely if ever right; and you give all the appearances
of being mentally and emotionally arrested at the level of a twelve-
year old.


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis)
Subject: Re: "wrong" answers on IQ tests
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:05:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.153937.19096@cbnewse.cb.att.com>
gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:

  [... N, A, H, V, and F ...]
>
>BTW, I would say "F", because it's the only letter that does not
>appear in the word, "Havana".

Or Navaho, but I would say "F" because it's about to tip over.

(Of course, the "V" is in a little danger too, but only if you push it!)

-sz  (That's SCHWARTZ)
From: bluelobster+@CMU.EDU (David O Hunt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// t// Re: T/ Re: T% Thought for the Day
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:45:42 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Scott Tai:  Well... we already knew all engineers are exactly alike!

Huh?  I don't think so...



David Hunt - Graduate Slave |     My mind is my own.      | Towards both a
Mechanical Engineering      | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and
Carnegie Mellon University  | <<<Use Golden Rule v2.0>>>  | Jewish homeland!
====T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=========T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=====
Email:  bluelobster+@cmu.edu    Working towards my "Piled Higher and Deeper"

"Out there is a fortune waiting to be had; do you think I'd let it go you're
mad - you got another think coming!" -- Judas Priest
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark)
Subject: Re: Geneticism
Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Date:  5 Oct 92 00:25:14 GMT

>Even if you demonstrate that homosexuality is genetic in origin, you prove
>nothing by calling it a "defect", since it is one merely by definition of
>the evolutionary process.  You are left with a personal moral and aesthetic
>value judgment.  There is no way that can be argued with; your opinions are
>clearly your own.  But don't try to pin the rap on Mother Nature.

I think this clearly shows that opinion can be instrumental on (if only in a
minor way) evolution of the human animal.  If homosexuality were branded a
defect by the vast majority (say 97.5%) then such 'outcasts' may find it
difficult to reproduce due to social and legal binds that would be
produced. However I beleive that evolution of humans, due to the increasing
effectiveness of medical science, is basically coming to a halt at least in
industrialised nations. I beleive that artificial selection wass at work for
negro americans for those shameful years of slavery. Only the strongest,
fastest (and most compliant?) survived to reproduce into the next
generation. Could this be a reason for the domination of Black Americans in
the explosive power sports (i.e sprinting, jumping, boxing, basketball)?

But still there will be ethical implications of this survival of the unfit due
to the intervention by medicine. Asthmatics and PKU sufferers that would
have died just 50 years ago now survive with life-long drug supply. Many
other genetically passed problems are no longer selected out from the
species and are carried on from generation to generation. I heard by the
year 2010 something like 75% of americans will need some sort of constant
medication for their long-term survival. Health costs will spiral as more
and more of the population will need it more and more often. Couple this
with the synergistic effects of the myriad chemicals finding their way into
our environment and therefore our bodies, one can safely predict a
burgeoning human crisis in medical terms. What can we do? I personally
cannot see our current ideas of humanitarianism and human rights co-existing
with our future survival.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa