HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vhalkka@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Vesa Halkka)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:49:34 GMT

In <BSIMON.93Jan5075220@elvis.stsci.edu> bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon) writes:


>Homeopathic gurus? There's nothing to prevent an ignorant person from
>using homeopathic medicines. However, when this ignorant person gives
>bad advice the fault lies with the person and not with the system of
>medicine he or she practices. However, its hard to imagine someone
>being so ignorant that they would tell someone with juvenile diabetes
>to stop taking insulin. Do you know of any case where a homeopathic
>physician told someone with juvenile diabetes to stop taking insulin?

Well.. there have been several cases where a kid has had some
disease with known treatment, and the parents have preferred
alternative treatment. The question has been whether the 
authorities have a right to force the parents to do use
the known methods when the child gets really sick.

I think one case was a child with some kidney problems,
and the homeopathic treatment did not work.
I think it settled when the child finally got sick
enough and the parents gave up.

The diabetes case was really a Kuhne treatment, the child died
and the 'therapeut' was sued. When the child got worse and worse
the therapeut just kept saying that the 'poisons' of conventional
medicines were coming away.. and insisted at the court that the
child had died only because the parents had not followed her
instructions well enough.

And then there are the usual cancer cases.. but they are usually
hopeless cases trying the last resort. Relatives makes noise when 
the patient dies.. but adults can do what they want. 

Children... it is difficult.

VesA
From: michaeln@cs.uq.oz.au (Bunweasel)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Rescue Remedy
Date: 13 Jan 93 05:42:08 GMT
Reply-To: michaeln@cs.uq.oz.au
Organization: Department of Computer Science, The University of Queensland

A FOAF has in her first-aid kit a bottle of a herbal "Rescue Remedy"
for relieving shock. Very strong & effective stuff.

Does anyone know what's in this stuff, or what other names it goes by?

-Bunweasel

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<BSIMON.93Jan4072728@houyi.stsci.edu> <1i9fbdINNpuc@rave.larc.nasa.gov>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:35:13 GMT

In article <1i9fbdINNpuc@rave.larc.nasa.gov>
kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey) writes:

   They are acceptable in surgical procedures only because it's impossible
   to perform a blind study.  Since it is possible to perform blind studies
   of homeopathic procedures, it is inexcusable that it hasn't been done.

Excuse me, but double blind studies have been done on homeopathy and
the majority of these studies show that homeopathy works. I'm not
attacking double blind studies, I'm merely saying that useful
information can be derived from unblinded studies, for if it weren't
possible then we could never know that most surgical procedures
worked. 
--
Bernie Simon			New Year's Resolution:
(bsimon@stsci.edu)		I promise not to call anyone a bonehead.
From: vhalkka@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Vesa Halkka)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:59:50 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <1hssu9INNgpt@rave.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey) writes:
>>
>>One of the really nice things about homeopathic remedies are that they're
>>essentially guaranteed to be safe, especially as potencies increase (after
>>all, they're just sugar pills, right? :)

>I'll definitely buy that, and that's why I wouldn't ever attempt to
>dissuade anyone from using them.  They certainly won't harm you (other
>than your pocketbook), and who knows?  They might even do some good.

>>As long as it doesn't delay other appropriate medical treatment, and it
>>doesn't cost more than is reasonable (what is reasonable is a personal
>>decision, of course -- homeopathy is generally reasonably priced as
>>compared to other therapies, though), trying homeopathy can't hurt.

>True enough.

The ugly side of the story is, that there are Homeopathic gurus
who tell the patient to throw away all conventional medicines,
because they make homeopathic stuff uneffective.
And what we do we get ? Children dying to diabetes, for example.

VesA
From: bsimon@stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Analysis of Homeopathy Literature
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<BSIMON.93Jan8130340@elvis.stsci.edu>
	<1993Jan8.225815.16221@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:03:44 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.225815.16221@netcom.com> rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:

   As with allopathy, no one study can validate or disprove 
   homeopathy.  What any given group of studies can do
   is to support or refute any given treatment.  Based upon
   this data, treatment strategies should be continually
   revised.  

   I am concerned that the majority of studies of homeopathy
   were performed *AFTER* the treatments had been in use 
   clinically.  Now that some of them have been disproved, I
   suspect that these treatments continue to be prescribed
   by some practitioners (please correct me if I am wrong).

   Even if double-blinded studies cannot be performed, *SOME* 
   positive data should be available and published in a
   public forum for evaluation before a treatment is 
   prescribed in routine clinical use.  This is true of all 
   legitimate allopathic interventions (yes, there are 
   some illegitimate allopathic practitioners) but
   not necessarily true of legitimate (i.e. sanctioned
   by a practitioner's peers) homeopathic interventions.  

Since the system of homeopathic threapeutics predates the widespread
use of clinical trials to evaluate therapeutic treatments, it's hard
for me to see how you can criticize homeopathy for using treatments
before they have been clincally tested. I also think you misunderstand
how homeopathic medicines are prescribed. Medicines are prescribed on
the basis of the totality of patient's symptoms according to the law
of similars. There isn't one set of medicines that are prescribed for
colds, another for headaches, etc.. So homeopathic therapeutics stands
or falls as a whole and not as each individual medicine.

   Licensed homeopath?  Do you mean M.D./D.O., or do you mean 
   chiropractor/accupuncturist?  If you mean the former, we
   agree here.  If you mean the latter, how are those 
   practitioners trained to handle serious medical problems?

   In any event, I do not approve of a non-M.D./D.O. 
   homeopath providing any sort of primary care, even
   for "non-serious" medical problems.  How would such
   a practitioner know to distinguish between "serious"
   appendicitis and "non-serious" gastroenteritis,
   for example?  Or between degenerative arthritis of the
   hip and avascular necrosis of the femoral head?  Etc., etc.

By licensed homeopath, I mean M.D. or D.O. Here in Maryland, a
non-licensed medical practitioner can only receive a patient after
referral from a licensed doctor. I am sure the law is the same in most
states. So I think your legitimate concerns are answered by this sort
of arangement.
--
Bernie Simon (bsimon@stsci.edu) -- Looking for a 90's answer to a 60's question
		

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: rxv9839@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Bob Vogel)
Subject: orthomoleular medicine society??
Reply-To: rxv9839@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 07:57:43 GMT

Is there still a society for orthomolecular medicine in SF? anywhere?
Anyone know the address, phone or particulars.  Yes I know there was one in
the late 60's or early 70's and they would provide a list of ortho--
doctors.  Just interested.
From: wright@duca.hi.com (David Wright)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Vaccinations?
Date: 7 Jan 1993 17:55:41 -0000
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products, OSSD division
NNTP-Posting-Host: duca.hi.com

In article <1993Jan7.215514.11826@netcom.com> kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski) writes:
>In <1993Jan7.175708.24046@netcom.com> I gave this attribution:
>
>>From Neustaedter's _Immunization Decision_:
>
>On re-reading, I may have shortened this a bit much -- I'd like to
>make it clear that I'm referring to Randall Neustaedter OMD, CA, and
>his book _The Immunization Decision: A Guide For Parents_.
>

What are "OMD" and "CA"?

  -- David Wright, Hitachi Computer Products (America), Inc.
     wright@hicomb.hi.com




Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: wright@duca.hi.com (David Wright)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Cancer treatment
Date: 7 Jan 1993 12:37:20 -0000
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products, OSSD division
NNTP-Posting-Host: duca.hi.com

In article <1hjskiINNieh@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:
>
>Finally:  ACE is the place.  The vitamins A,C, and E are all
>correlated with anti cancer properties.
>But pleeze....A and E can be harmful in higher doses, be careful.

Well, even C can cause irritation of the urinary tract if you take
enough of it.  If you insist on high doses of A, you'll be sorry --
taking beta carotene (a molecule of which contains 2 molecules of A)
is probably a better idea.  Also, E is fairly innocuous even in high
doses, but that doesn't mean that megadosing with it will do you any
good; more than 400 IU a day is probably a waste.

  -- David Wright, Hitachi Computer Products (America), Inc.
     wright@hicomb.hi.com

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: tscwhitehead@cc.weber.edu (Clarke Whitehead)
Subject: Re: Juicers
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Weber State University
Distribution: na
Date:  5 Jan 1993 16:04 MST  

In article <1993Jan5.203647.8797@leland.Stanford.EDU>, dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen) writes...
>In article <1993Jan5.165326.29298@samba.oit.unc.edu> london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan4.192931.1311@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> 
>>rkaren@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (robert.karen) writes:
>>>I am interested in buying a juice maker and I have no idea what to
>>>look for. I see prices ranging from $39 to the sky is the limit. The 
>>>only feature that I know I want is that it should be easy to clean.
>>>Can anybody give me some simple guidelines or refer me to any publication
>>>similar to Consumer Reports. Please email to rkaren\@hlwpw.att.com.
>>
>>Champion Juicer, preferably the industrial model (a little more costly
>>but has a heavier-duty motor which allows more flexibility when processing
>>fruit, nuts, vegetables, herbs). Around $325 I would guess. I have one of
>>these and am very satisfied with it; it's easy to clean and is versatile
>>enough to juice parsley. A grain mill is available for it too.
>>
> 
>I'll second this. I have a Champion too, use it just about

I would question whether you need to spend $200+ on a juicer, unless you
are constantly juicing in large batches.  I didn't want to spend a lot
initially, because I didn't know if I'd even like it.  I happened to see
a Krups mini juicer about a month ago at a Weinstocks store that was going
out of business.  It was originally priced at $75, and they had it on sale
for $32.  That was cheap enough to convince me to try it.  I'm very
content with it.  I've found that I really enjoy juicing, and it seems to
do a great job for me.  It's fast, quiet, and very easy to clean.  I 
wouldn't recommend this particular unit if you are juicing for a family
or several people.  It's best for doing a glass at a time, but it's very
compact and is ideal for my lifestyle.  Perhaps the more expensive units
will give you a better juice yield, but you can buy a lot of fruits and
vegetables for the extra $200 you would pay.

Clarke

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Vaccinations?
Date: 8 Jan 93 04:36:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan8.043656.1751
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan7.175708.24046@netcom.com> kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski) writes:
>I wouldn't imagine it being a public health problem, but if we're going
>to be re-immunizing adult women anyway, why immunize kids?

Herd immunity.

>And isn't the immunity conferred by contracting the disease more effective
>than that provided by immunization?

It is believed to be so.  But if non-immune women become exposed to rubella
during pregnancy, you get characteristic birth defects.  The vaccine introduced
has reduced this to extremely low levels.

>From Neustaedter's _Immunization Decision_:
>
>  Side-effects of the rubella vaccine include encephalitis-type symptoms,
>  meningitis, and the Guillain-Barre syndrome (muscle paralysis and sensory
>  nerve deficits).  In addition, at least 12 to 20 percent of women develop
>  arthritis symptoms after receiving the vaccine.  These may begin several
>  weeks after the administration of vaccine (Fulginiti, 1976)[*].  They may
>  persist for weeks, months, or years.  In some cases, women develop
>  rheumatoid arthiritis which continues throughout their lives.
>
>It's unfortunate he doesn't provide a reference for the statement about
>rheumatoid arthiritis, but are you saying it isn't true?
>
>* Fulginiti, V.A. "Controversies in current immunization policies and
>  practices."  Current Problems in Pediatrics 1976; 6:6-16.

It is certainly _not_ the case that 12-20 percent of women develop
arthritis symptoms.  Where _are_ all these people?  Ask yourself that.
The vaccine is quite safe.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: wright@duca.hi.com (David Wright)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Amalgam & Gold & Monitor Emission
Date: 7 Jan 1993 13:15:17 -0000
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products, OSSD division
NNTP-Posting-Host: duca.hi.com

In article <18562@borg.cs.unc.edu> pettit@cs.unc.edu (Cynthia Pettit) writes:
>In article <BzxxsJ.Mn9@ssr.com>, sdb@ssr.com (Scott Ballantyne) writes:
>|> In article <hans.725449378@mcshh.hanse.de> hans@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Hans Lehmann) writes:
>|> 
>|>    Question: Could amalgam and gold inlet in teeth in combination with monitor
>|>    emission cause critical health problems?
>|> 
>|> No.
>
>hmmmm.  That seemed to cut off this thread.  This issue is still
>under debate.  I'm not going to try to argue this point, but I know
>for a fact that this topic is *not* closed as far as alternative
>health advocates go.

Yeah, but I seriously doubt that it ever will be, short of a direct
statement of "quit worrying about it" from God.

>Studies have shown that mercury/silver fillings *do* give off mercury
>gas

True.

>-- sometimes in higher quantities than is acceptable by government
>industry standards!

THIS is not at all well-established.  The meters used to get these
results were not designed to get accurate results in the mouth.

>and I myself have read voltages from my own mercury fillings

What the heck does this mean??

>[before I had them removed].  This combination is suspicious to me.

Why?  What is suspicous about it?

>Certainly if you look at the instructions given to dentists to
>dispose of the left-over amalgam, one would again be wary. (do not
>handle the amalgam, seal in an air-tight container, etc.)  We keep
>this stuff in our mouthes?!

Why not?  Properties vary depending on quantity, state, etc.  After
all, zero vitamin C in your diet will kill you, but that doesn't mean
that you can take it in unlimited quantities!

>If you have studies that prove or disprove the above question, please
>post them.  Though, I'm wary of studies done by a biased
>organization, such as, say, the ADA...

As opposed to the absolutely impartial alternative practitioners, I
suppose. 

Me, I just keep brushing and flossing.  One filling at age 36.

  -- David Wright, Hitachi Computer Products (America), Inc.
     wright@hicomb.hi.com

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: Bach Flower Remedies
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:33:16 GMT

In <1993Jan12.140902.13040@pegasus.com> richard@pegasus.com (Richard
Foulk) writes:

>>The good news is that, unlike traditional medicine, or even herbs, you
>>can not do any harm by taking the wrong flowers.  Therefore it is OK
>>to experiment.

>Combining them with a little fairy dust should be much more efficacious.

Aha, we'll have to try it!  Richard, do you know of a good source for
fairy dust, and have you found any particular varieties more effective
than others?

Thanks for your help,

Pete
From: hwfal@usho95.hou281.chevron.com (Bill Alvarez)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:58:07 GMT
Reply-To: hwfal@usho95.hou281.chevron.com (Bill Alvarez)
Organization: Chevron - CITC/COD/TE&I

Bernie,

I have tried three times to E-mail you at bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu
and received messages that the mailed was not transmitted. Please E-mail me 
a corrected address or a Post Office address to send you some information

Thanks,
Bill Alvarez

Bill Alvarez
Houston, TX
hwfal@usho95.hou281.chevron.com
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Analysis of Homeopathy Literature
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<BSIMON.93Jan8072327@elvis.stsci.edu> <1993Jan8.165642.3379@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:03:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.165642.3379@netcom.com> rkaplan@netcom.com 
(Richard Kaplan) writes:

   One marginally positive publication, balanced with many negative
   publications, does not add up to a legitimate basis
   for treatment.

While I'll admit that some studies of homeopathy have given negative
results, the majority of studies have given positive results. This
applies to both the high quality studies and the totality of all
studies of homeopathy. This is what the BMJ survey says and why I cite
it in favor of homeopathy.

   >Certainly it is much safer than much of allopathic 
   >medicine and in many cases I would think it advisable to try the
   >safer form of treatment first and only go on to the riskier form of
   >treatment if the safer form fails.

   This is true only if one considers the natural history of
   the disease and therefore the potential for harm due to
   delay of treatment.  If delaying treatment is potentially
   harmful, then homeopathy is inappropriate.  And 
   appropriate evaluation/estimation of any given patient's
   natural disease history requires that a diagnosis be made
   based upon appropriate scientific/clinical information, something
   that non-M.D./non-D.O. homeopaths are not licensed to do.

I don't disagree. If someone has a serious medical problem, they
should see a licensed doctor, homeopath, allopath, or whatever.
--
Bernie Simon (bsimon@stsci.edu) -- Looking for a 90's answer to a 60's question
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:34:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.043212.2958@cs.uoregon.edu>, Roger M. Wilcox
<tracer@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu> writes:

>This makes more sense under the orgonomic energy-metabolism model than under
>conventional mechanistic biochemistry.

Yeah... (although that's not saying much -- it makes absolutely *no* sense
under conventional mechanistic biochemistry :).

>...it's also reasonable to assume that some of the charge could be absorbed
>by water it was immersed in (water absosrbs both OR and DOR).

I think the standard diluent is alcohol -- does alcohol absorb OR as well?

I've only read a tiny bit about orgone -- from your statements, I assume
DOR isn't actually deadly, just complementary in some way?

>However, were this actually the case of what was happening, I'd be willing
>to bet that water placed in a non-contaminated orgone energy accumulator
>would have effects equal to or surpassing well-diluted homeopathic
>medicines.

Makes sense.  Is there some apparatus that can detect OR and DOR, such that
you could measure what's in a homeopathic remedy?

And do you have some pointers to good reference materials on orgone?

Thanks,

Pete
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: statz@uumeme.chi.il.us (Louis B. Del Boccio)
Subject: *** Medical Advise Needed ***
Organization: UUMEME Public Access Xenix
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 08:36:50 GMT



A friend of mine who needs some medical info asked me to post an
article for her mother. Two doctors told her that her mothers leg
has to be cut-off . And she was hoping that someone could help. 

She needs to know " How to un-clog and restore an artery located
below the Knee.......OPEN TO ANY-METHOD !!!  A.S.A.P.

 ank-You
LLou       statz@uumeme.chi.il.us

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Vitamins
Followup-To: misc.health.alternative
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<1992Dec28.192240.14986@das.harvard.edu>
	<1ihg94INNn1d@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:31:01 GMT

In article <1ihg94INNn1d@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk> () writes:

   im taking 500mg daily but perhaps as a fairly heavy smoker i should up
   this to 1000mg - any comments?

If you are a smoker, I would suggest taking 2 grams of Vitamin C a
day. I would also suggest taking 25000 I.U. of Vitamin A in the form
of beta carotene every day, as it has been shown to help prevent lung
cancer. 
--
Bernie Simon (bsimon@stsci.edu) -- Looking for a 90's answer to a 60's question
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: LIFE EXPECTANCy
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 9 Jan 93 08:14:03 EDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: msmith@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu's message of Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:12:23 GMTLines: 23

In <1993Jan9.021223.6850@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> msmith@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu writes:

> A Minnesota native recently told me that her state had the highest
> life expectancy.  I doubted this.  She couldn't find information to
> back up her claim.  I would think that a warm climate such as ARIZONA,
> TEXAS, or HAWAII would have the longest L.E.'s.  She disagrees and
> states that cold weather increases L.E.

I believe this is correct; Minnesota does have the longest LE of the 50 states,
or at least it did as of the 1990 census.  It has been speculated that cold
weather increases "hardiness", & thus, LE.  It also has been speculated that
the large # of Scandinavian descendants living in Minnesota might have brought
with them a genetic predisposition to longevity.  It is interesting to note
that the LE of the Native American population of Minnesota (which is something
like 4% of the state population) is an abysmal 42 years.  Since descendants of
Scandinavian ancestors (in Minnesota) and descendants of Native American
ancestors (in Minnesota) all experience the same cold weather (in Minnesota),
one might speculate that cold weather may not be much of an explanation in this
case, and that other factors account for Minnesotans' longevity.

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Subject: Pennyroyal?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 18:00:45 GMT

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention ... what is pennyroyal supposed to
be good for?

A friend just gave me a pennyroyal plant.

-- 
Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative