HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)
Subject: Re: O.R. protest against homosexuals on CSPAN
Originator: forgach@gemini.tuc.noao.edu
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:11:26 GMT

From article <C0xMKq.AsE.1@cs.cmu.edu>, by garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin):
> In article <1993Jan15.213931.6687@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
> #From article <uoj3dj4@zola.esd.sgi.com>, by cj@eno.esd.sgi.com (C.J. Silverio):
> ## "I don't think Christians should use birth control."  
> ## 				--Randall Terry, Operation Rescue
> #
> #"Christians shouldn't use contraception or abortion."
> #                                --Pope Paul VI
> #
> #Terry's in good company.
> 
> 
> It depends on your definition of "good," doesn't it?

No.  Good is good.


> I can think of a lot of other similarities between Terry and the
> pope.  Both are misogynists, both are homophobes, both delight
> in giving advice on subjects about which they know nothing, and
> both teach their folowers to hate.  

You have not shown _any_ of these to be the case with either man.
Care to try?


> (Thanks to Suzanne for illustrating
> this last similarity so well.)

Please explain to me how avoiding contraception or abortion is "hateful"?
Unless living a successful, self-determined, life without them makes
_other_ people resentful and envious.   I assure you, that is not _my_
problem.   As you well know, I have posted many times where and how
other people can learn to live successful, self-determined, lives
without messing their bodies up with contraceptives or slaughtering
their children with abortion.

> Susan

S. Forgach
From: regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: A Book and an Offer
Date: 26 Jan 1993 16:44:19 -0800
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com

In article <C1HLEn.92H@ra.nrl.navy.mil> lebow@psl.nrl.navy.mil writes:

>I am very interested in the
>decision processes people go through. People in crisis don't often have the
>presence of mind to examine all the ramification of their decision.  The
>unfortunate reality is that the abortion card is so often played because it is
>perceived as being the only card dealt. 

Yeah, right.

Like people who get pregnant don't even realize that they could have a child.
Makes sense, huh?

> I place a good deal of the blame for
>this on the past two administrations.

And, further, they are this incredibly stupid because of who the president
has been for two administrations.

I buy it.

Adrienne Regard



Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: datepper@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Aaron Tepper)
Subject: Re: Is it ever wrong?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:44:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.000543.22605@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>,
ece_0028@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu (David Anderson) writes:

>In article <1993Jan19.065053.20962@Princeton.EDU>
>datepper@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Aaron Tepper) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan19.010903.13781@bsu-ucs>,
>>00bbharris@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>>[bit bucket is filling up fast]
>>>But how is a woman ever to know if carrying the fetus to full term
>>>will
>>>be of any kind of hardship to herself until after she's had the baby,
>>>aside from medical hardships....?
>>Ever hear of a "budget", Brandon? Ever hear of a "full time job"?
>Sure Brandon.  Balance a checkbook, kill a baby.  Whatever makes
>life easiest for you.

What baby, Dave?

Nice to see you can be as flippant as I can about this. Now answer
this question: Would you be willing to help support a mother who cannot
afford to raise her child, to make sure her child gets a quality
education, to make sure that the child is never lacking for food or
clothing or shelter?

If you're pro-life, you better not be against welfare and aid to
families with children.
-- 
David A. Tepper '94
datepper@phoenix.princeton.edu
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Subject: Re: When will We See the Changes in the Stats...
Organization: NCSU
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:08:29 GMT

In article <1k469aINN522@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com> 
regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes:

> The incredible misogyny of deciding a person vs. a perhaps-we-aren't-sure-
> and-anyway-it's-harming-it's-host not-person in favor of the latter 
> boggles the mind.
>
> The incredible mysogyny of reducing a woman to a breeding animal because of
> *your* *personal* values also boggles the mind.
>
> It isn't a simple either/or scenario.  What abortion restriction entails is
> returning women to the status of chattel, and nothing less.

Sheesh, and to think that *I* get accused of "cheap emotionalism"
because I use the term "child" instead of "fetus".  Ms. Regard goes
whole hog here, using heavy emotionally-laden terms like "breeding
animal", "misogyny", "chattel", all the while ignoring the simple 
fact that the vast majority of women in America do not support 
unrestricted abortion-on-demand.  Are the women who oppose abortion
"misogynists", Ms. Regard?  Do they think of themselves as
"breeding animals"?  Surely you must have a better opinion of
American women than that.   
 

>Adrienne Regard


 "For some of us, abortion on demand *is* no more serious than demanding a
  hamburger."
   -- Adrienne Regard


Doug Holtsinger

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: So Forgach Supports Shutting Down Catholic masses
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:31:45 GMT

In <6005@catnip.berkeley.ca.us> tanj@catnip.berkeley.ca.us (Ren and Stimpy's Love Child) writes:

>In article <1993Jan22.214302.24837@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>>If women can become priests, bishops, archbishop, cardinals or popes,
>>they will not be having the same opportunities as men, but they
>>will be taken as men.
>>There is a small confusion between being treated equally and erasing
>>the natural differences between them.

>Explain to me how a penis makes a person capable of being a spiritual

Because most *spiritual leaders* spend a lot of time screwing folks?

(well, it was just a thought)

>leader, and how the absence of one renders a person unfit for such a
>position.

>--Teddi
>-----------------Another Catholic School Survivor (12 years!)------------------

Grouch (married to another survivor)
From: szikopou@superior.carleton.ca (Steven Zikopoulos)
Subject: Re: Smart drugs
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:49:33 GMT

In <1993Jan22.180244.6329@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> aankrom@nyx.cs.du.edu (Anthony Ankrom) writes:


>About L-Dopa. I don't think you want to take this for a "smart" drug at
>all. Quite the contrary. In fact L-Dopa has quite a bit of anticholinergic
>effects. Certainly _not_ the action you'd want for a smart drug. In fact,
>several purported "smart" drugs are cholinergics. 

>St. Anthony (apologies for using the phrase "in fact" twice in the same
>paragraph... ;-) )






Quite right.  If you want to do some neurotransmitter precursor
loading (cheaply!) try buying some lecithin at your local pharmacy or
health food store.  Lecithin is a natural source of choline which is
needed in the synthesis of acetylcholine.  Before anyone starts dosing
themselves with massive quanties of lecithin...do some research.  I'm
not sure if there is a rate limiting step that will prevent choline
loading from inducing an increase in acetylchoine or not.

Anyway L-Dopa isn't cheap and not easy to get.  Besides...if one
doesn't watch it they may end up inducing a schizophrenic psychosis!
Nasty nasty!

Steve Zikopoulos
szikopou@ccs.carleton.ca
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Subject: Re: CLINTON CORUPTS BUSH AND REAGAN PROTECTION OF THE UNBORN
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 12:57:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.092749.10468@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>, sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes:
> 
> ATTENTION EVERYONE!!  Please cancel this thread!  The orginal article
> was sent by mistake(malfunctioning terminal, plus my finger slipped and
> hit s for send rather than a for abort)...
> ...And please do not tell me about how stupid it was, because it's not my fault
> if the terminals in the computer lab are junk.

They sound pretty powerful to me.  I know of no other terminals
that can make a person's fingers press the wrong keys.

Actually, I think the terminals are probably fine, but I know
the terminal user is junk.

Dean Kaflowitz

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: hasselbring@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Abortions should be rare
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:05:00 -0500
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University

In article <1993Jan25.195007.11399@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, mcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran) writes:
> In article <1993Jan25.115252.2129@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> hasselbring@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>>According to both the Washington Post and the Washington Times, 
>>Clinton said that America should be a place where abortions are legal 
>>and safe, but rare.  
>>
> He certainly did. Don't you think that's a good goal to shoot for?
> 
>>I wonder what he meant by rare.  Does he realize that currently one of 
>>every three pregnancies are terminated by abortion?  Does he realize 
>>that over 4000 babies are aborted per day on the average in the US?
>>
> I think it's safe to say that President Clinton has access to more
> statistics then any of us here would care to wade through. Of course
> he knows wha tthe current rates are.
> 
>>I know of no one who thinks that the repealing of the bans on 
>>22-Jan-93 will result in fewer abortions.  How can Clinton say that he 
>>thinks aboritons should be rare when his actions will make abortions 
>>more common?
>>
> Perhaps because (being a rational man) he realizes tha tthe way to
> reduce the number of abortions is to address the causes of abortion.

But his actions in no way addressed the causes of abortion.

> By education, ensuring the availability of effective, affordable
> contraceptives, and by education.

The most effective, most affordable "contraceptive" is to time sexual 
intercourse so that you do not have it during the 5 days each month 
when it is possible to conceive.  This requires good cooperation 
and communication between husband and wife, an understanding of the 
processes of menstruation and conception, and a small amount of 
sacrifice (that is not being able to have sexual intercourse anytime 
the desire arrises).  

I agree that such education would be excellent!  

> If you want to reduce the number of abortions, banning abortions is
> not the way to go about it. Address the causes. Teach kids the truth
> about sex, and how to protect themselves. Encourage them to wait, and
> discourage promiscuous behavior (just don't delude yourself into
> thinking you're going to stop teenage sexual experimentation).

I agree that we cannot completely stop promiscuous behavior.  I do 
think that requiring those who are promiscuous to be responsible for 
their actions is not too much to ask.  That is, they should be 
responsible for children they concieve by carrying them to term
and then either raising them themself, or giving them to loving 
adoptive parents.

Letting people think that abortion is an easy way out, only 
encourages them to be promiscuous.  

Sue Hasselbring

Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.politics.homosexuality,talk.religion.misc,talk.politics.misc
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: So Forgach Supports Shutting Down Catholic masses
Organization: LLNL
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:15:35 GMT

In article <C1A4qp.E8z@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.211348.18894@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
: : The pope, 
: >...
: :  continues
: : to treat women of the church like second-class citizens.
: 
: >   How?
: 
: 	By not allowing women to have the opportunity to have
: leadership positions. Will a woman ever be a priest? Bishop?
: Archbishop? Cardinal? Pope?

>   Could you please tell me what you know about the above positions,
>then?  I'll give you a hint in that all are priests.  But please tell
>us what you know about the nature of the priesthood.  Not some
>sarcastic answer, but according to how the Catholic Church defines the
>priesthood.  My guess is that you don't know anything about it.  Your
>comment implying that the priesthood is merely a "leadership position"
>seems to confirm that.

	The Catholic Church has a hierarchy. Priests give orders to
laypeople. Bishops give orders to priests, archbishops to bishops,
Cardinals to archbishops, and the Pope to Cardinals.

	What more is relevant? Or do you prefer male bosses to female
ones?

>   Perhaps there is some reason, due to the nature of the priesthood,
>that women cannot be priests.  And if you really know nothing about
>the priesthood, then are you really qualified to comment on it?

	I am aware of rationalizations like that priests must be in
the "image of Christ", though it seems to be OK to have priests who
are not 30-year-old Palestinian Jews.
-- 
/Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster
/lip@s1.gov
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.drugs,alt.magick,alt.pagan
From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Subject: Re: Smart drugs
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:07:36 GMT
Followup-To: alt.drugs

In article <1993Jan22.054237.18305@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>, bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (William E. White ) writes:
> In article <1993Jan20.184144.6464@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
> >From article <1993Jan14.161238.10974@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>, by mgross@server.cs.jhu.edu (Matthew B. Gross):
> >> I take phenylalanine about every day, and it really sharpens my awareness,
> >> but I'd like to find something which could help me in the long-term.
> 
> Try tyrosine, it's one step closer to what you're trying to get (or you could
> just take L-DOPA, or eat a lot of broad beans.)
> 
> >I like caffeine, myself. 
> 
> Actually caffeine is an adenosine antagonist, not at all the same sort of
> sympathomimetic as, say, ephedrine or amphetamine.  In the long run, tho,
> it still results in sympathomimetic action, with all the negative long-term
> side effects, namely the downregulation of tyrosine hydroxylase; the brain
> self-corrects for excesses and this prevents you from keeping permanently
> buzzed.
> 
> Now, what we really need are drugs to inccrease production of tyrosine 
> hydroxylase.

Don't forget vasopresin, which is why I recommended choline chloride
to go with the phenyl alanine.  By the way, as far as manufacturers
go, I recommend Twin Labs.

Disclaimer:  I am not a doctor nor am I a chemist.  I only know
what I have read and discussed on this subject.  I don't really
recommend taking anything unless you have researched it carefully
and have a clue about it.  I also do recommend you be careful with
such things, watch the blood pressure where "smart drugs" are
concerned, and eat a balanced, nutritionally useful diet.  I don't
actually think there is a great value in a regular program of
"smart drugs."  I think that, in the long term, you are much better
off keeping fit, eating wisely, and not trying to "cheat" your way
to intelligence or improved memory with specific nutritional
overloads.

Dean Kaflowitz
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: mcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran)
Subject: Re: FETAL AGE ESTIMATES (with apology to LM about LMP)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: None worth mentioning.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 19:29:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.232424.25467@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.IBM.com writes:
>In <nyikos.727646212@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:

[Lots of deletions]

>>I wonder whether "gestational age" refers to time since implantation.
>
>My dictionary refers to time since conception, but I admit that I don't
>know if this is the same definition the medical references use.  (An
>interesting question, but unrelated to the above, since LMP is what
>was used in the statistics given, not gestational age.)
>
Gestational age is time since conception, not implanatation.

--
                  Mark Cochran          merlin@eddie.ee.vt.edu
These are the views of my employer, your employer, your government, the
Church of your choice, and the Ghost of Elvis. So there.
Member, T.S.A.K.C.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)
Subject: Re: PAS or Post Abortion Syndrome
Originator: forgach@gemini.tuc.noao.edu
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:29:20 GMT

From article <C0xtt6.F3u.1@cs.cmu.edu>, by garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin):
> In article <1993Jan15.211701.5938@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
> #From article by ai245@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Thomas):
> # 
> ## Does anyone believe there is such a disease characterized by depression,
> ## nightmares, etc., which could last for a liftime?  This theory is being
> ## touted on another board by Anti-choice folk.
> ## 
> ## Chris
> #
> #Yes, of course.  Why else would programs like "Project Rachel" be growing
> #so large so quickly?
> 
> How large?  How quickly?
> 
> Oh, sorry, I forgot, this is Suzanne.  She won't have any actual
> data to back up her claims.  Never mind.

What do you care.  It's mere continued existance in cities across the country
prove the existence of Post Abortion Syndrome.


> Susan

S. Forgach
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: markp@joplin.wri.com (Mark Pundurs)
Subject: Re: the z/e/f's right to life
Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:23:15 GMT

In <1993Jan26.054635.10983@netcom.com> ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer) writes:

>markp@joplin.wri.com (Mark Pundurs) writes ...
>>ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer) writes:
>>>markp@joplin.wri.com (Mark Pundurs) writes ...

>>>>Response to external stimulus != (reason) or (free will)
>>>Ergo, you have neither free will nor reason?
>>Reason and free will => response to external stimuli,
>>but
>>Response to external stimuli => reason or free will
>                              ^^
>I'll presume the above was meant to be "does NOT imply".

Right. Thanks for not flaming. :-)

>Problem:  given that you're only able to determine a response to
>external stimuli, how do you then infer reason or free will?

1. I know through introspection that *I* have reason and free will.
2. I know the sorts of external behaviors I exhibit due to my reason
   and free will.
3. When I see others, who are physiologically equipped for reason and
   free will, exhibit similar behaviors, I ascribe reason and free will
   to them.

... or something like that.

>-- 
>Ray Fischer                   "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth
>ray@netcom.com                 than lies."  -- Friedrich Nietszsche

Mark Pundurs
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: margoli@watson.ibm.com (Larry Margolis)
Subject: Re: DODIE won't be fisted but he will let you finger him!
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 07:01:15 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16f by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In <1993Jan20.155355.13080@ncsu.edu> dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>In article <35535@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU>
>smezias@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU (Stephen J. Mezias) writes:
>>dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>
>>> 'finger dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu' for documentation which shows
>>> Roe v. Wade is unrestricted abortion-on-demand throughout pregnancy.
>
>> But what a titillating offer!
>
>Does the thought of injecting a deadly poison

That's not what fisting is, Dougie.  Ask Keith - maybe he'll explain it to you.

>'finger dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu'
..to give Dougie a thrill.
--
Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
From: zeus@aero.org (Dave Suess)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: numbers
Date: 28 Jan 1993 20:34:13 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: zapodid.aero.org
Summary: big talk, no numbers
Keywords: forced childbirth

In article <markp.728247608@joplin.wri.com>,
	 markp@joplin.wri.com (Mark Pundurs) writes:
>For a number of years, the figure was 1.6 million. According to a t.a 
>pro-choicer (I forget who), the number has more recently been 1.4 million.
>(This same pro-choicer, BTW, flamed the 1.6 million figure as not just
>outdated, but a "lie".)

	A "number of years"? What number? Which years? 
	Lemme see: not sure which years, not sure of the exact
	figures, not sure of who allegedly cited 1.6M but sure
	that that person both cited the 1.6M *and* called it 
	a lie, not sure what the figure is now ...

	How hard can it be to find an almanac these days?
				Dave Suess	zeus@aerospace.aero.org
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: The ongoing jokes on talk.abortion
Date: 23 Jan 93 03:15:32 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

mcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran) writes:

>In article <root.727557692@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>mcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran) writes:
>>
>>>In article <root.727512141@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>>>chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:
>>>
>>>>>I have one thing to say:
>>>>>		    These people need a LOBOTOMY.
>>>>Physician, heal thy self.
>>>>
>>>Hey! That's sort of an insult to physicians everwhere, you know? I
>>>mean, it's really *icky* to think that Airplane Boy (he with the Fat
>>>Black Ass) could be confused with a physician...
>>
>>Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa...that's the second time.  First,
>>Adrienne points out that I insulted 15 year olds by compaing Chaney to one.
>>Now this.  Jeesh...;-)
>>
>Ego te absolvo. For your pennance say three Hail Usenets and four Our
>Internet-Fathers.
This place is overrun with ex-Catholics...;-)

Hail Usenet, full of waste, the Lord is with thee.
Blessed are you among nets, and blessed is the truth of thy man Drieux
Holy network, sender of crud, display for us sinners, now and at the hour
of Usenet death, Amen.  (x3)

Our Internet Father,
who art in Uunet,
Network is thy name.
Thy postings come,
thy swill be borne,
on modems as it is on backbones.
Give us this day our daily news,
and forgiveus our flamefests,
as we forgive those who flame us.
And lead us not into killfiling,
But deliver us from alt.evil.

For thine is the ethernet, and the power and the stories, 
now and forever, Amen.
(x3)

[It's a joke, son!  Get it?]

>And you're getting off easy. Last time I made a mistake like that (I
>had to read DJR posts for punishment....
>;-)
Yeah...but I'm gonna get royally flamed for this one....I know it now!
[And this was off the top of my head at 9:25Pm on a Friday! ;-)]

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558