HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: quanstro@lars.StOlaf.edu (goon)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: St. Olaf College, Northfield, MN USA
	<1992Sep1.230435.27381@news.columbia.edu>
	<9224903.16502@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
	<1992Sep5.122850.17017@news.columbia.edu>
Date: 5 Sep 92 22:50:51


It's amazing how much damage Intel x86s can do to one's brain.
From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Flash pix
Date: 7 Sep 92 11:25:48 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <25394@castle.ed.ac.uk>, ercm20@festival.ed.ac.uk (Sam Wilson) writes:
> 
> You can apparently make a rudimentary TV camera by (carefully!) removing
> the top from a DRAM chip and putting a lens in front of it.  Only a
> bistable picture but good enough for some applications.

One scheme that I heard of let you get more than a bistable picture. I don't
really understand how it worked, but you essentially filled the DRAM capacitors
and then measured how long it took them to discharge. I think it would take
several iterations, because reading the chip to see if it's discharged would
refresh it...

Roger Ivie
ivie@cc.usu.edu
From: lowen@lorc.UUCP (Lamar Owen)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Branching in HLL vs. Assembler (was Re: The need for an assemble
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:37:46 GMT
Organization: LORC Enterprises

magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson) writes:
> With all respect for your great experience, have you ever programmed
> in BASIC? In BASIC (I'm talking about real, honest-to-God, macho
> interpreted BASIC, with one-character identifiers, and not one of
> those wimpy, effeminate pseudo-Pascals marketed today), your whole
> program is one big module, and you can jump literally *anywhere*. Of
> course, you probably wouldn't be able to use those BASICs to write
> multi-megabyte modules, but even a 64 K module can be pretty ard to
> debug... 
> 
> For example, it was common practice among certain programmers to write
> "clever" code like this (and this is just a simplified example, actual
> code would probably look much worse):

[Nice examples deleted.... :-(]

Well, this whole thread reminds me of the Obfuscated BASIC contest held by
80-Micro Way-Back-When(TM) for the TRS-80 dialect of MS BASIC.  I love code
like this:

...
120 IF (X=0) OR (K=X) THEN FOR I=1 TO 30:K=I-X^2+35:POKE 16385,(K MOD 256):NEXT
I:IF K=245 THEN K=36 ELSE K=56: ELSE X=35:POKE 16385,X
...

And, even more insidious:

...
120 FOR K=X TO Y STEP -2:IF K=2Y THEN GOSUB 3500:NEXT K:ELSE GOSUB 3530: K=K+2:
NEXT K
...

The REAL winners of the ObBASIC contest were even more convoluted, with whole
games being written in one, two, or three lines.  You could REALLY screw with 
people's minds in *those* days.  And, note that the TRS-80 BASIC supportted
the ELSE clause, but with the caveat that it had to be on the same line as
the IF!  Thus, all the : statement separators.

Ah, the memories... :-)

--

Lamar Owen, Systems Consultant, GE Lighting Systems, Hendersonville, NC
***********************************************************************
 Opinions expressed herein are the author's and do not reflect policy
   or opinions of the General Electric Company or its subsidiaries.
***********************************************************************
From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Flash illiteracy; was: Re: Deutsches Museum (was: Zuse Computers
Date: 7 Sep 92 11:40:29 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Sep1.045612.10928@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, bmb1021@ultb.isc.rit.edu (B.M. Buck ) writes:
> 
> Actually, I think that that would make a very striking picture (done
> differently, of course...).  Anyone up to superimposing a picture of a
> brightly-lit full-moon over the shadow portion of a solar eclipse?

I'm not sure, but, assuming that you found a large enough flash, you would
probably make a whole bunch of astronomers very angry.

Roger Ivie
ivie@cc.usu.edu
From: hsu@pix.com (Dagwood Splits the Atom)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: pizza (was Re: Coke machine at CMU)
Date: 9 Sep 92 02:57:13 GMT
Organization: Pix -- The company with no adult supervision.

In article <brumby.715602372@nella11.cc.monash.edu.au> brumby@nella11.cc.monash.edu.au (Stephen McNamara) writes:
>9125113g@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Mitch Davis) writes:
>>From "The Hacker Test":
>> > 0023 Have you ever wanted to download pizza?
>>I know what you mean...
>   A pizza shop that was local to me used to advertise 'Computerised Pizza
>Delivery'. I was always intending to go in and ask what baud rates they
>supported.

Of course, there's always Don Hopkins' PizzaTool, which as I recall
requires his PieMenus package (which itself requires NeWS), some sort
of faxmodem, and really only works within a modest radius of Vince &
Dominic's pizza in Mountain View.

Incidentally, do any ex-Sun folks out there still have a copy of the
sunview "reorgtool" that was circulating mid-1990?  I seem to have
misplaced mine...

-dave

-- 
Dave Hsu                           <hsu@pix.com> -or- <hsu@eng.umd.edu>
Caffeine and Salsa Czar	          "Technology is like fish -- the longer they
Pix Technologies Corporation       stay on the shelf, the less desirable they
Have nerds, will telnet.           become."    - Andy Heller
From: jhh4889@ultb.isc.rit.edu (J.H. Huebner )
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Coke machine at CMU
Date: 6 Sep 92 15:56:48 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: jhh4889@ultb

In article <1992Sep4.053312.4033@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> 9125113g@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Mitch Davis) writes:
>In article <BtxJ98.Iw6@xcluud.sccsi.com> paul@xcluud.sccsi.com (Paul Hutmacher) writes:
>>In article <87501@netnews.upenn.edu> jarnot@kin.lap.upenn.edu (Kevin J. Jarnot) writes:
>>>I have recently heard of a Coke machine at CMU that is connected to the 
>>>Internet.  Anyone have the whole story???
>>
>>I'd like the ip address so I could ftp a Coke or something.

I used to go to CMU. (Just transfered to RIT). There _was_ such a
machine. The CS department had a private Coke machine and M&M dispenser.
Some student wired them up so that if you ran the program
/usr/contributed/bin/xcoke an xwindow would pop up telling you the
availability of various flavors, tempature and when they were last
refilled. Unfortunately that machine was replaced and the new one was
never re-wired. the program xcoke still exists I believe. Any AFS user
should be able to find it.
	There was also another program (this one just plain busted) that
would draw a picture of the M&M machine with a line indecating how full
it was. This eleviated unsuccseesful snack ventures. It also helped you
know when to bug a CS major to refill the machine.

Please! I would love to see these operational again I love the Idea. Bug
CMU CS majors! Wire your own school's machine. This is a productive use
of bandwidth (Not :-).

-John Huebner
jhh4889@ultb.isc.rit.edu
(till December) jh6p@andrew.cmu.edu
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:14010 comp.unix.misc:3684
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Date: 15 Sep 1992 14:53:56 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>The only way you
>can stay competitive in hll-only programming is if there is planned total
>obsolescence.

No sir.  The entire reason you program in HLL's is extended lifetimes
and retargetability, thus providing the competitive edge of running
identical systems on more platforms than the other guy, and having
your code on the newer hardware first.

Part of the maintenance problem in HLL's is that the code usually
*far* outlives the expectations of the writer.  All it takes is a
little tweaking and a recompile and it runs on X ... so why not do it?
If it's not done right (it *can* be done right, BTW, and it's not even
that difficult) you end up with a maintenance nightmare.

I can't for the life of me imagine why you think that writing in
assembly *doesn't* give you guaranteed obsolescense.  Once that
hardware is gone, you're in store for a 100% rewrite.  That's not
going to be very competitive against the guy who just tweaks his HLL
code.  You might get a speed advantage -- but you'll get longer
development times, a smaller potential market, and a complete rewrite
for each new platform.  That's maintenance hell even if the code is
well-written.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
From: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Organization: The Man With Ten Cats
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 22:38:23 GMT
Reply-To: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)

In article <7X0JVP5@taronga.com> peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>In article <1992Sep5.022817.19437@ceilidh.beartrack.com> dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com (Don Nichols (DoN.)) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep3.091928.22081@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>>>In article <id.7MVS.5EK@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Aug31.162630.23913@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>>>>> It runs on 8088, 8086, 80186, 80188, 80286, 80386SX, 80386DX, 80486SX,
>>>>> 80486DX, 80486DX2, and about 20 non-Intel clones from AMD, NEC, ULSI, TI,
>>>>> and a few other cpu clone maker's cpu's.
>
>>>>I can guarantee you it won't run on *any* of my 80286 or 80386 or 80486
>>>>systems.
>
>>>>But Ckermit will.
>
>>>Totally incorrect; just setup the descriptor tables and change the directives
>>>and a tiny amount of code and it does run in less time than it takes to
>>>recompile C-Kermit.
>
>Nope. Your *assembly language* program will not run on a single one of my
>non-DOS-based 80x86 systems. But C-kermit will. And it runs at full 80386
>speed instead of having every third instruction juggling segment registers,
>so you don't even have the excuse that your hacked 8086 code is faster.
>
>>	I suspect that what he is running is various unix implementations on
>>those Intel processors which he listed, and I suspect that you need more
>>than just the tweaks described above to make it work with the unix
>>filesystem and system calls in place of the MS-DOS/OS-2 versions.
>
>And I suspect that it will be a lot easier to get Ckermit running under
>OS/2 instead of in the DOS compatibility box than to get your assembly
>language version that includes (and probably interacts intimitely with)
>its own device driver.


This would seem to be a sure bet, as GNU EMACS, bash, and I believe gcc
have all been ported to OS/2.

-- 

Rick Kelly	rmk@rmkhome.UUCP	unixland!rmkhome!rmk	rmk@frog.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: Is there a PDP-11 (or 8, or...) Emulator?
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 11:07:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.095530.16240@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>>Putting the instruction set decoder in assembly makes some sense, if you don't
>>know how to write fast code in C. It's hard to do an interpreter in C that's
>>at all fast (not impossible, by any means, just hard). But the rest of the
>>code is unlikley to get a significant speedup.

>The peripheral code is in C already, and likely will stay that way, since it's
>not speed-important.  The instruction decode is done by table lookup; there is
>no faster way.

You can do a branch table in C. Unfortunately, most compilers seem unable
to remove the redundant test from the case statement so you have to filter
the assembly output...

(waits for flame about "why not do it in assembly in the first place")

Because (a) the code runs, albeit about 1/2-1/3 speed (depending on how long
the redundant range test is) without that optimization, and (b) some compilers
*can* do this sort of thing directly.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Har du kramat din varg idag?            'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
From: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se (James Hague)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favori
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:19:57 GMT
Reply-To: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Richardson, TX

Charles Lasner writes:
>
>I drive a 5-speed manual; you sound like you drive a two-speed automatic.

This is a classic case of assembler on the brain.  I like assembly language--for
the same reason that some people insist on carving wooden duck decoys without
the benefit of modern tools.  But it can be an obsessive-compulsive disorder:
You start worrying about one really pointless instruction generated by your
compiler.  Or that passing parameters in registers would be much better than
on the stack.  Or that you have to use a shift and IF statement instead of
a rotate.  It can drive you mad.  I've been there.

I _do_ think that there is a lot of sloppy design going on.  And it seems
that the rise of the Digustingly Bloated Program, at least in the PC world,
has coincided with the almost universal acceptance of high-level languages.
Is there a cause and effect relationship here?  Doubtful.  I think there has
been more of an attitude change than anything else.  I don't agree with the
New Mainframe Era which is dawning, but I don't blame it on a lack of total
assembler reliance.

--
James Hague   
exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
From: john@gu.uwa.edu.au (John West)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: GOTOs
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 13:27:21 GMT
Organization: University Computer Club --- Perth, Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: mullet.gu.uwa.edu.au

bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan) writes:

>How about the following which is a mixture of C & Pascal (just to be
>perverse :-)

>repeat
>  done= init_rs232 && init_modem && dial_number && log_on && do_the_business
>until done

>Change the language and formatting to taste.

Just don't change the language to Pascal. Pascal can (and often will) change
the order of execution within an expression. Yes, I hate it too.

John West
-- 
For the humour impaired: Insert a :-) after every third word
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: ericj@eskimo.celestial.com (Eric Jorgensen)
Subject: Re: You know when you're hacking too long when...
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 12:59:47 GMT

snippe@prl.philips.nl (Snippe DM) writes:
> aki@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us writes:
> >ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!) writes:
> >> I saw a billboard for a pizza place the other day that proudly proclaimed
> >> "More than 255 choices!" Let's see, that makes eight things that you can
> >> either have or not have...
> 
> >Those advertising types are always the same.  "more than 255 choices"...
> >read:  _EXACTLY_ 256 choices,  unless you count the fact that you don't
> >need to buy the pizza as the 257th choice.
> 
> Is there a difference between buying a pizza without cheese, tomato, 
> olives, onion, [insert other 4 items] and not buying a pizza at all ?
> Or do they also serve empty plates there...
> If so, do you pay for them?

Choice #258 is what my father always orders - without the sauce.  Personally,
I don't consider it (American Restaurant) pizza without it.  :)
From: erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org (Ethan Dicks)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re:  Flash pix
Distribution: world
Date: 5 Sep 92 02:09:25 EDT
Organization: Not an Organization

In article <25394@castle.ed.ac.uk> ercm20@festival.ed.ac.uk (Sam Wilson) writes:
>iisakkil@vipunen.hut.fi (Mika Iisakkila) writes:
>
>You can apparently make a rudimentary TV camera by (carefully!) removing
>the top from a DRAM chip and putting a lens in front of it.  Only a
>bistable picture but good enough for some applications.  (No I've never
>done it but I've read at least one magazine article and I don't think it
>was April.)

I did this, once, with a 4116 DRAM, which was installed in the second bank
of RAM on an Apple ][.  When I switched the video mode from TEXT to GRAPHICS,
I also cleared the screen to either black or white (I forget which).
When I uncovered the DRAM and let light fall upon the exposed die, individual
pixels changed color on the monitor.  I never bothered to map row and
column on the die to try and generate a realistic looking picture of
the world outside of the Apple case.  It seemed to me to be too much
work for a simple hack.  It might be interesting if you tried muliple
cameras, one lens per bit.

I still have the naked DRAM in my parts bin.

-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks     N8TVD ! This message is brought to you by the breakfast cereal
erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org ! of Pennsic Veterans everywhere: Beerios.
                      ! "They don't stay crisp in beer, but who cares?"
From: matthews@oberon.umd.edu (Mike Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Sneakers
Date: 15 Sep 92 23:29:40 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Sep14.025648.8533@udel.edu> elkins@daffy.cis.udel.edu (Robert Elkins) writes:
>I just saw the movie this afternoon.  Could be a vt52; at least they used 
>an acoustic modem; usually Hollywood messes up pretty bad when it comes to
>computer technical stuff.

Did anyone else notice the acoustic modem they used in "present time" was an
Atari 835?  Yow, that thing's old.  And slow, too... wonder why the used a
300 baud modem when 57.6kbps is common nowadays.....
------
Mike Matthews, matthews@oberon.umd.edu (NeXTmail accepted)
------
There's a bug somewhere in your code.


Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:13995 comp.unix.misc:3674
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (jeff zeitlin)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: ms-dos version skew
Date: 13 Sep 92 00:48:08 GMT
Reply-To: "jeff zeitlin" <jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Executive Networks Information

DPBS::>According to the book "Hard Drive" (about Bill Gates and Microsoft), an
    ::>unidentified Microsoft employee claimed that around the time of release
    ::>of MS-DOS 2.00, the word was "It's not done 'till Lotus won't run," and
    ::>that subtle incompatibilities were DELIBERATELY introduced into 2.00 to
    ::>cause 1-2-3 to break (because they were ticked off at 1-2-3's success
    ::>against Multiplan).

    I don't find it difficult to believe.  If true, however, my
    response would be that Microsoft had nobody but Microsoft to
    blame.  What made Lotus number one in the market place was not any
    kind of technical excellence, or even significantly different
    functionality.  It all came down to bucks.  Lotus spent 'em on
    marketing.  Microsoft chose to spend 'em on development, and rely
    on word-of-mouth from satisfied users.  Unfortunately, a lot of
    companies and individuals won't switch after getting a product.
    That works against WoM advertising.  This attitude was still in
    place in Redmond as late as the release of Microsoft Word for DOS
    version 5.0, when I mentioned to them that Word was superior to
    WordPerfect, and why don't they start marketing it a little
    better?

  J/
  jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
  ==================================================================
  Anything I say in this or any communication to this or any medium
  is strictly my own non-authoritative opinion, unless otherwise
  explicitly noted.  Except for myself, or where explicitly noted
  otherwise, I do not speak for any individual or organization.
  ==================================================================

 * OLX 2.2 * Remember when "PC" didn't mean "Politically Correct"?
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 03:14:30 -0400 
From: "Joseph M. Newcomer" <jn11+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)

(1) Optimize the things that matter
(2) Ignore the rest

Microsoft C7.00 with its interpretive code is a step forward; I wish we'd
had this three years ago when I was working in computer music:
    (1) the interrupt routines with the real-time constraints were in
        assembler
    (2) everything else was in C
and it should have been
    (1) the low-level interrupt routines with real-time constraints would
        be in assembler
    (2) the high-level processing with performance constraints would be
        in compiled C
    (3) almost all of the program would be interpretive code for size

this was a program that was 238,000 lines of source code.  It had about
11,000 lines of assembler (which should have been about 3,000 lines,
but it just growed).  Perhaps 20% of the code should have been compiled
C, and the rest was simply not constrained by performance, doing only 
very simple things in response to user commands, but the size was killing
use (and before you start shouting "640K turkey machine", remember that
a nontrivial performance problem in most modern machines is still the
impact of the working set on the paging traffic, or at least it was on
my 32MB RS6000)
                                joe

Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:13664 rec.games.trivia:3102
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,rec.games.trivia
Subject: Re: WANTED: Computer Trivia
From: mdh@gaya.gp.co.nz (Martin D. Hunt)
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:59:06 +1200
Organization: Wellington, New Zealand

In article <1992Sep4.064241.7208@uwm.edu>, anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber) writes:
> 
> Ahem, 3.5" flexible media disks *are* floppies, move aside the metal
> (sometimes plastic) shutter and look inside.  They merely happen
> to have a more rigid jacket.  It's even worse when someone refers
> to this babies as a "hard disk" aiiiiii!
> 

A couple of years ago, I went to a product launch breakfast. On the 
invitation, it promised that all attendees would receive a free CD-ROM. 
When I turned up for the breakfast I was presented with something which 
looked remarkably like a 3.5" floppy - it even worked in a standard 3.5" 
drive on a Macintosh!

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin D. Hunt	The opinions expressed above are mine, and mine alone, and
Wellington	do not imply any endorsement by anyone I work for or know.
New Zealand	USEnet at home : martinh@gaya.gp.co.nz
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: codrus@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Ian McCloghrie)
Subject: Amstrad PC6400HD30???
Summary: Anyone know anything about this?
Keywords: weird pc clone
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 04:38:46 GMT

	Anyone know anything about the Amstrad PC6400HD30?  It is (or at
least, appears to be) a weird PC clone with the power supply stuck in
the monitor.  The friend who's got this system recently shipped it via
greyhound, who managed to kill the monitor.

--
 /~> Ian McCloghrie      | Time Traveller, betz.biostr.washington.edu 4096
< <  /~\ |~\ |~> |  | <~ | email: codrus@ucsd.edu <-> (128.95.10.119 4096)
 \_> \_/ |_/ |~\ |__| _> | Card Carrying Member, UCSD Secret Islandia Club
From: michaelb@cse.fau.edu (Michael Rogero Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Need IBM=It's Broke, Man expansions for COBOL.
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:18:21 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton, FL, USA

In article <1992Sep14.150413.19904@ccu.umanitoba.ca> grnbrg@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Brian Greenberg) writes:
>
>Anybody have any good, nasty expansions for COBOL?
>
>Need it for a class in programming.
>
At Furman University, we always said it stood for:

Completly Outdated Business Oriented Language


I've always felt this version was so good, it should be in the Jargon File.

-- 
<<                                                               >>
<< Michael R. Brown    CS Graduate Student-Florida Atlantic Univ >>
<< Internet: michaelb@sol.cse.fau.edu                            >>
<< BitNet: m_brown@fauvax                                        >>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.c