HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: minimalism
Organization: Quake Public Access
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 04:13:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.173314.1675@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <BruKr7.9Mq@quake.sylmar.ca.us> 
>brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
            ^^^^^^
>What happened to Norton?  Enquiring minds want to know.

I left Norton to start my own company (to produce network utility software).

>>In article <1992Jul23.003230.16202@slc.com> 
>marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:
>>>Brian K. Yoder (brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us) writes:

>>>Same way some folk can justify having a desire to listen to Mozart.

>>Ah, then you see no important difference between a Mozart symphony and
>>some rattling pots and pans?  

>Where do the pots and pans come in suddenly? We were talking about
>Minimalist composers, weren't we? 

Cage had a piece called something like "Constructions in Metal" in which
the "performers" banged on various metal objects including kitchen
utensils.  I thought you were supposed to be some kind of Cage scholar?

>Now, let me congratulate you.  This must be your biggest non-sequitur
>yet.  Just because one may justify the desire to listen to piece A, and
>likewise can justify the desire to listen to piece B, and use the same
>process of justification, does this mean that there is no important
>difference between the two pieces?  

 have no idea what you are talking about.

>>Would you also apply the same reasoning to
>>Other kinds of sounds like those produced by 
>>the DJ on the radio? Does it matter
>>whether he's speaking english?  Whether he's just babbling in no particular
>>language?  Or just sitting quietly by the microphone?  What do you think is
>>the difference?

>Depends on what *I* wish to *do* with these sounds.  

What "you" want to do is call something "music" or not.  There are certainly
non-musical sounds which are of some use (weather reports for example) but 
just because they are useful or you might like them does not make them "music".

>If I want the DJ to
>tell me what time it is, I would like it to be in a language I
>understand.  If I wish to hear a classical symphony, then talk in
>English is just as obtrusive as talk in Spanish, and so is rock and
>roll, or even a Renaissance motet.

But are they all equally "music" in your view?  Or is there something
fundamental about the rock-n-roll that makes it more musical than the
DJ announcing the time?

>Besides, what do you mean by "the same reasoning"?  I don't recall ANY
>path of reasoning having been chosen for discussion, only the fact that
>one CAN justify one's tastes in music, but doesn't need to.

I thought it was your position that it is impossible to rationally justify
preferring one sound over another based on it's musical properties?  What
are you saying here?

--Brian
From: S_TITZ@iravcl.ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Most annyoying use of "Carmina Burana" yet
Date: 30 Jul 1992 16:49:03 GMT
Organization: Fachschaft Informatik, Uni Karlsruhe
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: irav1.ira.uka.de
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

In <1992Jul29.214554.17216@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu writes:

>  >Okay, we're all tired of hearing "Carmina Burana" in films, but
...
>  The opening chorus is currently a big dance club hit. At my favorite club
>  (Carpe Diem in Rochester NY), it is by far the most popular "song" played
>  on any given evening. Everyone swarms the dance floor and waves their arms
>  and fists in the air. I don't know whether I find this encouraging or
>  depressing.

I think you should find it encouraging. It shows that there are still
people with a mind open enough to get excited not only by the latest
disco hits as advertized in the 'in' magazines but by *real* music.
Btw. there are still some usually small dance clubs where they play
virtually every kind of music from Beethoven to Techno and the people
really like it! 

Just imagine what Orff would say if told this.

MfG,
        Olaf
--
                                                             o
 Olaf Titz           \    s_titz@iravcl.ira.uka.de \        _/\
                      \   uknf@dkauni2.bitnet       \      _//|_.
y.a. comp.sc.student   \  +49-721-60439@voice        \    (_)`(_) 
Uni Karlsruhe, Germany  \ praetoriu@irc               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eine Zensur findet nicht statt. N"aheres regelt der RZ-Leiter!  - Terra
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kpl@philabs.philips.com (K P Lee)
Subject: Re: Beethoven's violin concerto
Originator: kpl@gandalf
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 11:52:06 GMT


In article <1992Jul29.215158.271971@cs.cmu.edu>, acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby) writes:
|> I like the aforementioned Schneiderhan recording.  It's on CD along with
|> the two Romances.  I can't for the life of me remember who does the
|> Romances, but it's somebody *really* famous.  It's a budget DG disc -- an


It's DG 429 179-2.
The pianist is Daniel Barenboim with the English Chamber Orchestra.

The Romances are played by Pinchas Zuckerman, with the London
Philharmonica Orchestra conducted by D. Barenboim.
-- 

K.P. Lee                        Philips Laboratories
(914) 945-6249                  345 Scarborough Road
kpl@philabs.philips.com         Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Violinist in Joan Crawford movie?
In-reply-to: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu's message of Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:35:24 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<1992Jul30.023524.28183@news.columbia.edu>
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:23:54 CDT

Thayes writes:
   
   >I saw a movie last week about a violinist.  The movie was made probably in
   >[stuff deleted]
   >But anyway, does anyone know the title of the film?  And furthermore, does 
   >anyone know who the violinist was on the movie's (primitive) sound track?

Gabe M Wiener writes:

   The movie is called Humoresque, and it's out on video.  The violinist 
   was Isaac Stern.

Isaac Stern and Hollywood: I heard the startling story that, at about
age 20, he was bumped from a flight so that an actress could get back to
Hollywood quickly, and that plane crashed.  The actress could have been
Carol Lombard.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Speak-you English?
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:59:02 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

From the August 1992 _Consumer Reports_ (reprinted here without
permission):

			SPEAK-YOU ENGLISH?

  Those little booklets that accompany CDs often provide a wealth of
  information about the music, the musicians, or the composer.  Sometimes,
  however, a little something gets lost in the translation.  Witness the
  booklet that came with a CD recording of Arthur Honegger's "Le Dit des Jeux
  du Monde" from Cybelia, a French record company.
      We flipped past the French text and on to the English version, hoping
  to gain some insight into the composer's life and works.  We learned that
  Honegger "should have written for makeshift orchestra or heterogeneous
  instruments, sometimes invented, which has been called odd-jobs which can
  play a stimulate function for musicale imagination and for artistic
  evolution."
      We learned, too, that "An other lyric testimony of the composer
  particularly touching because he answers to a demonstrative wager."
      The booklet calls the seventh number on the CD, "Les Hommes et la
  Terre," a work "as fascinating as jail door" and mentions in passing a
  Belgian musicologist who is "now disappeared."
      But surely the most noteworthy bit of intelligence we gleaned is that
  "Schoenberg's name has been said several times like a scarecrow for this
  work!"
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.misc
From: thurlow@convex.com (Robert Thurlow)
Subject: Need lyrics to song derived from Dvorak "From The New World"
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:02:35 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

I've heard, just once or twice, a song called "Going Home" that
is written to the melody of the second movement of Dvorak's
Symphony #9, "From The New World".  I am not sure when it was
popular, perhaps the 1940s, and I don't know who might have
sung it, though I might guess Paul Robeson.  I'd have to rate
that collection of notes as almost perfect, and knowing the
symphony well, I'd like to know what the popular song that
usurped the melody is like.  If someone can point me towards
a recording, or if someone has the lyrics, I'd love to know
about it.  I hope this post doesn't cause too much consternation
on the classical side :-)  Thanks in advance for any pointers!

Rob T
--
Rob Thurlow, thurlow@convex.com
Heaven knows / No frontiers
And I've seen heaven in your eyes			- Jimmy McCarthy
From: dan@codex.UUCP (Dan Breslau)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Liverpool Oratorio - McCartney & Davis
Date: 20 Jul 92 14:43:36 GMT
Organization: Codex Corp., Canton MA

MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET writes:
> 
>This argument is utter hogwash anyway.  I have never heard of anyone who feels
>that their ability as a musician is hampered by knowing how to read music.

Roger Lustig has said something very much like this.

As it happens, just this weekend a musician friend of mine said that he
does regret having learned how to read music -- he doesn't play by ear
nearly as well now.  (I guess it's like relying on the autodialer on
your home phone, and then needing to know those numbers while you're
on the road...)

Dan Breslau
dan@codex.com
Disc claimer:  "Hey!  That's my floppy!"
From: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM (James Langdell)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: 20th c. "teaching pieces" for piano
Date: 29 Jul 1992 19:19:42 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bassclar


In addition to Satie's fairly simple Gymnopedies and Gnossiennes,
he composed several sets of pieces specifically for children, with
each hand in a fixed five-finger position.  I'll try to track down
their titles in a collection I have stored away and post it later.

--James Langdell    jamesc@eng.sun.com
  Sun Microsystems  Mountain View, Calif.
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Musical Masses???
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:50:55 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <1992Jul20.141506.1@ducvax.auburn.edu>, dfrench@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
> 
> I've been getting involved in the music department in my church of late.  
> I was wondering if there were any musical Masses out there that could be
> performed / sung by a relatively small group of musicians, 10 or so.  If

Any? There are hundreds, probably thousands. To start you off, Palestrina wrote
two hundred and something, Byrd wrote three which are easy and gorgeous, Tallis
wrote a fair number, in fact more or less every Renaissance composer wrote
settings of the Mass. Then there are Mozart's fifteen or so, Haydn's ten or so,
J.S.Bach wrote some: the list is endless!

If you want some specific recommendations: Byrd's Mass for four voices, any of
Mozart's little organ Masses, Howells' "Coventry" Mass......

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Subject: Re: Classical CD Clubs
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
In-reply-to: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com's message of 29 Jul 92 11:47:18 GMT
Organization: You wouldn't ask this if you'd seen my desk.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 03:36:36 GMT

In article <5221@transfer.stratus.com>, jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:

[re:  Classical CD "clubs"...]
> The BMG Compact Disc Club is by far the best.  You start out with
> 4 CDs, but only have to buy one more, at which point you get a couple
> of more free CDs. They also most months work on a "buy one, get
> another for free or half price (depends upon the month; one month
> it was even two free for buying one). 

Actually, the situation is better than this.  They seem to alternate
between offering "buy one, get two free plus an option for one at
half price" and "buy two at half price, get one free plus one half
price option".  So the deal is almost always three for the price of
one (plus one at half price if you're crazy or just in a hurry).
They limit you to two sets at these rates.  The availability of
specific titles is spotty, though.  You have to wait for them
to offer what you want.  But I just got the complete Solti Ring
for about $115, including shipping and handling, and that beats
Tower records by a bunch (about $210 for the four operas separately
and about $200 for the complete boxed set which seems to be 
identical except for the box; also BMG offered the boxed set for
the same $200, but refused to discount it as above or in any way).

> They have a good selection,
> and they are good at sending you what you want and not sending you
> what you don't want.

As an additional plug, the one time that they delayed significantly
on delivering a "paid" CD, they sent two timely notifications of the
delay, and then eventually sent the CD gratis.
--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Barber symphony #2
From: Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 30 Jul 1992 21:54:34 EST
Organization: University of Maryland at Baltimore

RE Barber Symphony No. 2:  Get it!  Barber was not satisfied with the piece,
but there is much in it to recommend it in the collection.  It was originally
commissioned by the Air Force,and depicts (more or less) pilots and their em-
otions.  Barber ordered it destroyed in 1964, but recast the second movement
as _Night Flight_ and incorporated music from the rest in both _Antony and
Cleopatra_ and _Fadograph of a Western Scene._
I'd say $4 is worth it.

Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Clavieruebung
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 03:59:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.135654.16758@highlite.uucp> 
alan@highlite.uucp (Alan McConnell) writes:

>Try Clavieruebung Vol 1 - a series of short but _wonderful_ choral-
>preludes.  Some of them touch heaven also.

Huh?  Clavieruebung I is the Partitas for harpsichord.  (II is the Ital.
Concerto and French Ov.; IV is the Goldbergs.)  You're probably thinking
of the Orgelbuechlein.

Roger  

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.misc
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Need lyrics to song derived from Dvorak "From The New World"
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:38:18 GMT

In article <thurlow.711828212@convex.convex.com> thurlow@convex.com (Robert Thurlow) writes:
>In <thurlow.711777755@convex.convex.com> thurlow@convex.com (Robert Thurlow) writes:
>
>>I've heard, just once or twice, a song called "Going Home" that
>>is written to the melody of the second movement of Dvorak's
>>Symphony #9, "From The New World".
>
>Two people have told me via e-mail that I have the dependancy backwards,
>that Dvorak incorporated the existing song into "From The New World".
>Shows you what I know :-)  If anyone has ideas about where to find
>more information, I'm still all ears.
>


Two people are wrong.  "Going Home" is based on the symphony.  Of
course, the first movement has a theme that sounds more than a little
like "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot," but that's not the same.

(And then there's the scherzo and the scherzo of Beethoven's 9th...)

Anyway, you can find "Going Home" in various collections of Spirituals.

Roger
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Most annyoying use of "Carmina Burana" yet
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:28:00 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.

In article <1992Jul30.005610.12238@schaefer.math.wisc.edu> mckinzie@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Mark McKinzie) writes:
>
>Back in 1980, Ozzy Osbourne opened his concerts with "O Fortuna!".
>

Maybe this is where the satanic impression comes from. Ozzy probably used
it as background while he bit the heads off chickens.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Raymond Tuttle)
Subject: Beecham's Favorite Overtures
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 22:29:45 GMT

Conductor Sir Thomas Beecham sometimes was criticized for lavishing
the same care on musical "lollipops" as he did on the massive
symphonies of Berlioz and Brahms. A new mid-priced reissue of
Beecham conducting his Royal Philharmonic Orchestra in eight
overtures (EMI/Angel CDM 63407) shows that there is no shame and
considerable pleasure in doing small things well. 

Beecham was an expert at generating excitement by only the most
tasteful of means. Generally, the tempi he chose for these works are
considerably slower than we are accustomed to from today's maestros,
yet Beecham's performances are alert and exciting in a way that
modern performances often are not. 

For example, Rossini's overture to "La Gazza Ladra" runs for more than
10 minutes on this disc (about two minutes longer than the average
performance), but Beecham's phrasing is so irresistably bouncy and
fluid that none of the music's life is lost.  Similarly, Suppe's "Poet and
Peasant" Overture gains from being treated with decency, and escapes
from sounding as silly as it usually does. 

In addition to these two works, the other overtures include two more
by Rossini ("La cambiale di matrimonio," "Semiramide"), Mendelssohn
("A Midsummer Night's Dream," "The Fair Melusina"), Berlioz ("Le
Corsaire") and Wagner ("Die Meistersinger"). The performances are all
genial and "safe" without betraying any feeling of routine.  

The recordings were made between 1957 and 1959, and all are in good
stereo for the period, except for the overture to "Die Meistersinger,"
which is cramped-sounding and monaural. Perhaps now is a good time to
mention that Beecham disliked stereo and referred to it as
"stereocomic" and "streptococcus" sound. 

In short, this disc is essential for Beecham's many admirers, but it also
is a very reasonable purchase for newcomers interested in obtaining
their first recordings of these works. Let's hope that EMI sees fit to
make all of their Beecham discs available in America as well as in the
U.K. 




--
****************************************   Raymond S. Tuttle
"Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod,"       University of Rochester
but it's nothing to get depressed about!   (still with his two little 
****************************************   white mice).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: erwin@helsinki.ks.uiuc.edu (Edgar Erwin)
Subject: Re: Minimalists/Andriessen
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:19:18 GMT

William Alves writes
> Here's a list of some of the composers who have been inflicted with
> the minimalist label over the years:
>
> [interesting list]

  You left out one of my favorites:  Gyorgy Ligeti.   Although most of Ligeti's  
compositions would never be confused with minimalism, he himself has noted the  
similarity in style between minimalism and some of his compositions, unlike  
some of the others on your list,  He even wrote a piece for 2 pianos called  
`Self-Portrait with Reich and Riley (and Chopin is there also)' (Forgive my  
probably poor translation of the subtitle.) 

Ed erwin@lisboa.ks.uiuc.edu

P.S.  Add Michael Torkey as well, the so-called `Second-Generation Minimalist'.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: velde@gopher.Stanford.EDU (Francois Velde)
Subject: Re: Violinist in Joan Crawford movie?
Organization: ^
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 19:47:04 GMT

>Thayes writes:
>   
>   >I saw a movie last week about a violinist.  The movie was made probably in
>   >[stuff deleted]
>   >But anyway, does anyone know the title of the film?  And furthermore, does 
>   >anyone know who the violinist was on the movie's (primitive) sound track?
>
>Gabe M Wiener writes:
>
>   The movie is called Humoresque, and it's out on video.  The violinist 
>   was Isaac Stern.
>

The actor playing the violinist was John Garfield. I recall reading that, for o
the shots of Garfield "playing" the violin, they had him standing with his 
hands behind his back, a real violinist standing behind him with (the
violinist's) arms in front of Garfield, playing. I think the actor wore 
a special suit open in the back so the violinist could put his arms 
through it and play.  I don't know, however, whether the said violinist was
also Isaac Stern.
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: 1st U. Soc. Choir in Europe
Date: 17 Jul 92 15:58:35 GMT
Organization: Digital Systems Co., Atlanta GA

SHAMELESS PLUG FOLLOWS:

The choir of the First Unitarian Society of Madison, Wisconson,
directed by Ellsworth Snyder (whom some of you may know of as
a pianist and the first person to do a doctoral dissertation on
John Cage) is in the midst of a European tour.  The choir has
about 60 members.
  They have included my "I Will Not Leave You Comfortless"
(5-part, acappella) in their tour repertoire.
  Although I do not have the specific concert locations
at this time, I do know they will be staying in the following
cities (for those who are close to these cities) and have
interest:

July 16-18
  Freiberg, Germany
    Staying with host families

July 19-21
  Ettlingen, Germany
    Staying at the Stadt Hotel Engel
    Kronenstrasse 13

July 22
  (no information)

July 23-24
  Eisenach, Germany
    Staying at Hotel Haus Hainstein
    Am Hainstein 16

July 25-26
  Leipzig
    Staying at ?

July 27-28
  Prague, Czechoslovakia
    Staying at ?

July 29
  Innsbruck, Austria
    Staying at ?

I hope to have better information by July 19 or 20, and
will re-post then.


Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Ein Deutsches Requiem (was Re: Christa Ludwig)
Organization: pubs
	<1992Jul20.004748.15515@research.canon.oz.au>
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:35:07 CDT

Ian Daniel writes:

   ...what is Klemperer's Deutsches Requiem like? ...

   I have the Karajan, Vienna Philharmonic & Chorus, but I'm not
   entirely satisfied with it. ...

I consider Klemperer's version *the* one to get.  AThough I often like a
conductor's tendency to oppose the composer's (such as a flamboyant conductor
for dry-textured music), the virtue here is the total compatibility between
conductor and work--serious, profound, Germanic in the best sense.  The high
point, by comparison with other versions, is Klemperer's featuring of a horn
line in the second movement, to an effect that inspires awe (bordering on
fear!).  I've never heard another conductor bring it out, but the score
justifies this practice with accent marks on that line.  Fischer-Dieskau does an
excellent job.  My only reservation concerns Schwartzkopf, who is maybe too
mannered.  Karajan's version, as is so often true with him, strikes me as a
simulated kind of thing--calculated like the manner of a funeral director.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: zedel@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Len Zedel)
Subject: Estey pianos 
Organization: Ocean Sciences Centre
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:47:42 GMT

  We have recently purchased an old (1906) Estey piano and would like to
find out anything we could about the manufactuerer.  When did the company
stop making pianos, what sort of pianos did they make, and any other
information like that.

  Thanks for any comments.


  Len and Liz Zedel
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical