HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jaymin@maths.tcd.ie (Jo Jaquinta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Two Celtic cultures -- gln & the rest
Date: 14 Apr 92 08:18:39 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.

In article <15262@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
[several personal and abusive remarks ...]
>There is 
>rarely a large number of articles each day in this group and most topics
>are fairly easy to identify on first look, and quite obvious on a second
>or third view of the same subject line.
	gln is falling prey to the classic mistake of assuming other people
are in the same newsreading situation as him. Perhaps he has lots of time to
read news. Lots of people don't.

>If you are looking for a group that meets only your
>specific needs, then get a grip - the group exists for all not for a select
>few (people or topics).
	I applaud that philosophy. That is why, instead of *telling* people
how things should be, I *ask* people if they would be interested in two
groups. I vote yes. gln votes no. I have seen one or two other messages in
favour but not enough for an real CFV. If there are other "no"'s out there
perhaps they can speak more eloquently for themselves.
		Faithfully,
					Jo Grant

_______________________________________________________________________________
Jo Grant			| "Love is blind, or so it seems, to make me
jaymin@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie	| offer you my dreams. But after all is said and
44 Bancroft Ave., Tallaght,	| done, a blind man's dreams are not much fun."
Dublin 24, IRELAND		|		-- Horslips, "Blindman"
Organization: Freshman, Music, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: seanr@spock.retix.com (Sean MacRoibeaird)
Subject: Re: Liking Indiana (was Re: Sick'n'tired of the "Troubles"
Organization: Retix, Santa Monica CA
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:14:15 GMT

Somebody called Suze writes :

"Many times the native people of Ireland  have tried to  explain their
wish    that  super-  "patriotic"    expatriates,   and  romanticizing
descendents would leave off, and let Ireland settle her own problems."

As somebody who was born and raised in Ireland and has lived there for
twenty four of my twenty  six years, I get irritated  by messages like
this.  Everybody from Ireland knows how  irritating it  can be to hear
some Americans waxing  lyrical about  Ireland, but  by  the same token
there are a lot of people in this newsgroup whose opinions may not fit
in with the general feeling of everybody else and who happen not to be
currently residing in Ireland. To knock the opinions of people who are
not currently living in Ireland as romatic and patriotic is  in itself
ignorant and  it does  not allow for  the fact that opinions  may have
some validity.

"Read the header addresses for endings of "ie" and "uk", and the names
of places."

You do not  know the origin  of the people  subscribing to this group.
You do  not   know the  processes   that lead to formation   of  their
opinions.  The  above  statement  is   the height  of  ignorance   and
offensive. My location is not a factor in the opinions that I may have
in Ireland.  In the time  I  have  subscribed to this newsgroup I have
had this charge thrown at me. It is a convenient way  of ignoring what
is actually said in an article.  My  personal opinions on Ireland have
not changed  significantly in the  time I have been in  America  and I
don't see  any  reason to  believe  that the  situation  would  be any
different for others who are not currently living in Ireland.

Sean Mac Roibeaird
-- 

=======================================================================
The views expressed here are mine, and mine  alone. If you want to know
my employer's opinion - ask him.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: spinoza@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Prince Lev of the Domovoi)
Subject: Re: Why the English are to blame for Everything
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:46:03 GMT

In article <16APR199200075326@zeus.tamu.edu> pac9897@zeus.tamu.edu (SMELLS  
LIKE JOHN MAJOR....) writes:
> People often say to me, they say, "Why do you have a near-racist hatred  
of
> the Enlgish?" so I cook up a pack of lies and tell them "Anything bad  
that
> has ever happened can be placed directly at the door of the English who
> are alive today". Then my therapist puts my straight jacket on and
> administers my morning dose of Loopy Juice.
> 
> 
> It is a well known fact that the English are to blame for everything,
> here are some well known examples where the English scum played a key  
role
> in causing distress and trouble to others:
> 
> 1, World War Two, everyone knows that had the lilly-livered yellow  
bellied 
>    English not declared war on Germany in 1941 then Hitler would never  
have 
>    taken power. Those proud celts the Irish however, did a wonderful and  
brave
>    job at being neutral throughout World War Two.
> 
Ummmmmm, not to be a party pooper or anything, but I remember reading  
somewheres that some British pol by the name of Neville Chamberlain  
basically gave half o' Czechoslovakia (the Czech and Slovak Republic, for  
those who keep up on current events) to Mr. Hitler in 1938. Called it  
"Peace in Our Time" if I recall correctly. THAT went a helluva long way  
towards convincing the National Socialists that they should go after  
everything in sight, didn't it?  The case couold easily be made that  
Hitler would never have gone on to try and take over Europe had the  
British shown some backbone at Munich in '38.  
Other than that small point, good show.






shalom,

lev



"Lo yisa goy el goy cherev, lo yilmedu od milchama..........until then,  
keep the Galil oiled and loaded......................................."
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:3545 rec.music.folk:3231
From: james@wrs.com (James Moore)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: Bothy Band & Green Linnet CD Sale
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:06:24 GMT
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.

Rebecca Roolf <rr3b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Are ALL of Green Linnet's CD's $12.50 or just the Bothy Band?

All of them.  There's also a buy-ten-get-one-free offer (their normal
buy-six-get-one doesn't apply to the $12.50 price).  Even when you add
in shipping it's a good deal.

--
James Moore                                 | james@wrs.com
Wind River Systems                          | Alameda, California
      "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half meant
				nothing at all"
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Is this good history?
Date: 17 Apr 1992 16:03:59 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks) writes:
>tale is very likely, as no one in their right mind would *invent* details that
>were merely incidental, if they gave the lie to his story...

Joyce's approach sounds good overall, but this above is not a good
justification for believing it; remember that a peculiar
characteristic of our urban myths are the convincing minor details,
like the price tag confusion & particular store setting for the
"Neiman Marcus cookie recipe".  Most of the stories were written
with something in mind, to persuade the hearer of one thing or
another, no reason to think the monks didn't folk-process the
details as well as the plot, no?  Maybe the law codes would be more
reliable.
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company
Date: Tuesday, 7 Apr 1992 08:59:54 EDT
From: Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Liking Indiana (was Re: Sick'n'tired of the "Troubles"
 <92097.080553RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET> <SMAILL.92Apr6214611@sin.aisb.ed.ac.uk>
 <1992Apr7.112029.4185@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>

In article <1992Apr7.112029.4185@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew
Huntbach) says:
>
>From: smaill@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Alan Smaill)
>>However, I have become confused by usage in this group of the terms
>>Nationalist/Republican. Are they synonymous?
>>At least some people seem to use nationalist/republican in the
>>narrower sense of supporters of Sinn Fein/the IRA, whereas
>>most members of the Catholic community are neither.
>
>A convention seems to have grown up that "Nationalist" refers
>to anyone whose ambition is a united Ireland, but "Republican"
>refers to that subset of those people who pursue their ambition
>through violence.
A similiar convention applies to Loyalist/Unionist, where Unionist refers
to those who support the Union with Britain, but Loyalist implies more
extreme tendencies. (The UVF and UDA are usually referred to as Loyalist
groups, rather than Unionist groups.)

The two communities are usually referred to as Nationalist and Unionist,
(Or Catholic and Protestant :-( ) because, as Alan rightly points out,
these communities aren't always hotbeds of support for the extremists,
even if the sentiment for a United Ireland, or for the United Kingdom has
strong support.
>
>Matthew Huntbach
Aengus
--
RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Two Celtic cultures
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:16:41 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Apr12.194815.6973@cm.cf.ac.uk>, gedge@cm.cf.ac.uk (Geraint A Edwards) writes:
> It's a shame you found this offensive enough to reply like this.
> There is a point being made here that I sympathise with (well

Well, this just about says it all - I should be ashamed at finding his article
offensive because you agree with what he said.... anyway, Chris has as much
right to make the request as I have to state that it bothers me, however, I
do think it should be pointed out that it was he and others like yourself
who propose to either

a) define celtic culture to meet your own needs/desires/wishes

  and/or

b) attempt to censor the content of the group

 I do find that offensive - particularly since those of you who claim to not
want to participate in such discussion have a very obvious and easy solution -
don't read articles regarding NI - just skip them and things should be fine
for you - but of course that is often not good enough for some...

> said, Chris).  I believe he was calling no-one "dishonest", but

Well to call a handful of people "honest celts" implies to me that others
must somehow be "dishonest celts" or perhaps pseudo-celts - I don't think 
I misread it all that much...

> highlighting what some of us think - that s.c.c. has become too
> dominated with Anglo-Irish talks.

 I swear until the day I die I will never understand this logic - you may not
like the balance but so what? The balance reflects the current interest of
the group at any one time - if you or I do not like the balance then it is
simply our tough luck - we have no right to dictate to others what should
be spoken of and how often it may be done - complaints are one thing, 
requests or demands that the group change to please a subset of people is
absurd - as far as I know, there is not a single soul on this planet who
is *forced* to read every article in s.c.c against their wishes. If someone
does not like a particular thread - then simply skip it - it is the beauty
of the net that this option exists to us - I'm afraid that I have to assume
that people who claim to have no aggenda but who wish to eliminate specific
topics from a group like this must at best be kidding themselves...

> There should, IMO, be a better place than a *.culture group for
> this.  The ease with which I can hit `n' to skip them is not a
> good solution - I want to read them, just not in this group.

 Come again? 

> At the moment I find myself killing them all because in s.c.c.
> I want to read about cultural celts, not marauding English! :-)

To claim that one can talk about celtic culture and avoid the topic of
"marauding English" seems ridiculous to me (and I think many others). I
also find it offensive that you or anybody else think that you can define celtic
culture better than the rest of us....

			gln
From: imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scotland: Independance v Devolution
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:23:02 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Scotland.


  All revenue raised in Scotland should, in the first instance, be controled
by a Scotish pariament.  Funds for comon spending would than be sent north or 
south.  That way the assembly could then have tax _lowering_ powers.  It also
kills the idea that more than 90% of funding would come from the central 
government.
  Given that the Scots legal system is a seperate entity from the English: it
would be apt for new law to be added by the local assembly, even when those 
are a reflection of those in England or the EEC.  The laws regarding mariage
are already different from those down south, that's why eloping to Gretna 
exists.


  As regards Stormont, that assembly was a prime example of how the present
electoral system can be Gerymandered and corupted to give total dominance 
to a majority.  The introduction of PR is what I believe the Ulster Unionists
etc. most fear from a hung parliament.

		~~~~~/\~~~~~
Iain McCord	~~~~/()\~~~~	Wed Apr  8 15:23:00 WET DST 1992
		~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scotland: Independance v Devolution
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:05:07 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Apr15.172046.5898@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
> Gary, were you not the one who was arguing strongly against
> splitting out discussion of Northern Irish politics a while
> back? Or did I miss an invisible smiley from the above?
> Matthew Huntbach

Yup - it was hidden between the sarcasm and seemingly ineffective attempt at
humor.... somewhere in there....

			gln
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: USA go home (Was Re: Shooting)
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:03:26 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Apr15.161013.1570@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
> From: gmcquary@Ingres.COM (George F. McQuary)
> >country because of famine, having our land stolen from us, conscription, or
> >as white slaves for the plantations.
> 
> Where you stole the land from its native inhabitants, wiped
> most of them out, and enjoyed the wealth created by black
> slaves.

 Well, no actually - get your history straight Matthew - the English had long
ago wiped out the majority of the native-american population and slaves who
had been forced to this country by the English were free by the time most Irish
came to the states - granted there were some Irish here but the injustices you
speak of above are the result of English-Americans for the most part, not
Irish Americans...

> Matthew Huntbach
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scotland: Independance v Devolution
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:20:46 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
> I really think it is about time we split this group. In particular, I
>find that I waste a lot of my time having to wade through the continued
>arguments regarding Scot politics. Perhaps a group named talk.politics.scot
>is in order, as I have little interest in Scot politics and I really
>think this group should be left for what I like, I mean it should be
>left for what I think is culture, no no no - I mean it should be for
>soc issues not political ones..... thank you,

Gary, were you not the one who was arguing strongly against
splitting out discussion of Northern Irish politics a while
back? Or did I miss an invisible smiley from the above?

Matthew Huntbach
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company
Date: Wednesday, 15 Apr 1992 13:44:43 EDT
From: Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: USA go home (Was Re: Shooting)
 <1992Apr9.140801.29545@rdg.dec.com> <1992Apr14.202532.6159@pony.Ingres.COM>
 <kuo92uINN4i4@news.bbn.com>

In article <kuo92uINN4i4@news.bbn.com>, gsmith@bbn.com (Graeme Smith) says:
>
>gmcquary@Ingres.COM (George F. McQuary) writes:
>
>|>When faced with such arrogance in the sons of the people who did this to us,
>|>it is  difficult NOT to cheer whenever someone blows up more British. I very
>much
>|>resent the attitude that Irish-americians should keep quiet about Irish
>politics.
>
>...so you cheered last Friday when the IRA blew up a 14 year old girl and her
>7
>year old sister, along with scores of other civilians...bloody charming, all I
>see here is typical Irish-American rhetoric.
As a _real_ Irish person, with a Dublin accent, and a passport to prove it,
I'd prefer to refer to it as just plain American rhetoric. While it
seems to be pretty common among the Irish-American community, there's no
shortage of similiar rhetoric among any of the other ethnic groups in
America. Any of them with ties to a country or people currently in conflict
regularly support actions that "their own people" do not support.
>
>Graeme
Aengus
--
RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:3518 rec.music.folk:3198
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Two Celtic cultures -- two newsgroups
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:32:09 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Apr14.022935.25238@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, csb58666@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chad S. Beckett) writes:
> May I, a neutral American of Anglo-Saxon birth, offer an alternative
> pairing of newsgroups on soc.culture.celtic.  It occurs to me that if
> there is any real distinction to be made, it should be between the scots
> and the irish; hense I propose a soc.culture.celtic.irish and a          
> soc.culture.celtic.scot. But as someone who is
> about to go to only one of these places, and someone with a great deal
> more interest in one, as opposed to the other, I would welcome such a
> distinction.  Any thoughts?


 Is anyone out there who wants this split for any reason other than it
will benefit *them* directly? Anyone? Geezuz, come on folks - reasons like
"I'm taking a trip to Boston so let's remove all topics besides the Red Sox
out of rec.sport.baseball" just really don't cut it. Does anyone here really
think that s.c.c produces enough bandwidth to require a split?? I don't
see it if it does - all I see is self-serving proposals that indicate a
total lack of consideration for others in the group who

a) enjoy dicussions on NI
b) like *all* Celtic news whether Welsh, Irish, Manx, Scot, Cornish or
   Breton. 

 I can appreciate that Chad has an interest in one "of these places"
and not in the other but that is a pretty weak reason for considering
splitting the group. Why can't people just relax and leave it alone. There is 
rarely a large number of articles each day in this group and most topics
are fairly easy to identify on first look, and quite obvious on a second
or third view of the same subject line. If you don't like the subject, hit
the "n" key and look for one that you do like it doesn't harm you more than
a very tiny little bit of time and it allows others to enjoy their topics
without a constant whine. If you are looking for a group that meets only your
specific needs, then get a grip - the group exists for all not for a select
few (people or topics).

			gln
From: Geraint.Jones@comlab.oxford.ac.uk (Geraint Jones)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Bitch! (was Re: Liking Indiana (was ...
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:52:22 GMT
Organization: Oxford Parallel Reality, Buzzware Artificers to the Gentry

derek@spock.retix.com (Derek Gallagher) wrote:
 X   
(*)  NOW FOR SOMETHING IMPORTANT------
 X   
(*)  My dead granny's dog is called tadgh, and I've been told that this is
 X   an old Irish name. Anybody got more info on it?
(*)  
 X   The dog also had 6 pups and I was wondering...

Let me tell you something about your dog...

Here's a bit of celtic.culture(.soc) for you.  Is the use of `dog' for `dog 
or bitch' an anglophone peculiarity,  or is it just a bit of urban language 
that I would find in other languages if I spoke enough other languages that 
are spoken in large enough cities?
									  g
From: 00rdharringt@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: 200 years of Peace and Friendship
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:19:37 GMT

In article <1992Apr2.164738@mark.enet.dec.com>, holohan@mark.enet.dec.com (Mark Holohan) writes:
> In article <1992Apr2.082034.21154@agora.uucp>, trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster
> Racewerks) writes:
> 
> I posted an article from a book.   I welcome anyone pointing out items
> that may be in error.
> 
> |>
> |>Is *all* your "history" as lousy as this example?
> 
> History is a chronicle of events, if you find an error in the chronicle,
> then point it out, and bring it up for discusion.  I welcome that.
> 
> |>
> |>Should we all be *proud* of your lies, just because they support a "cause"?
> 
> I take offence to the term "lie", I am not attempting to lie, or pass on
> any lies.  What I am attempting to do, is to pass on the truth.
> 

A statement is only true when it is taken in context.  You can find all the 
events you like and present them without telling what context they were in
and you still wouldn't be telling the truth.  This is why history books are
so damn long instead of 100 lines of a post.

-- 
/---------------------------------------v-------------------------------------\
|  Rob Harrington                       |              Ball State University  |
|  Department of History                |               Muncie, Indiana, USA  |
|  Vax--00RDHARRINGT@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu  |       Unix--herring@bsu-cs.bsu.edu  |
>---------------------------------------^-------------------------------------<
|  "It is good fortunes for politicians that people don't think."- A. Hitler  |
|                       Aoibheann beatha an scol/aire!                        |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Tory as an Irish word
Date: 10 Apr 92 04:06:49 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

Undoubtedly I am the last man, woman, or child in the
civilized world to find out about this, but it was only the
other day, amidst all this talk about the British elections,
that I had occasion to look up "Tory" in my dictionaries.
Can you imagine my surprise when I read that Tory derives
from an Irish word "toruidhe, robber, persuer (later applied
to outlaws and armed Irish Papists) < toir, to pursue; akin
to Gael. toir, pursuit". Thus sayeth the Webster's New World
Dictionary of the American Language.

Naturally, the OED gives a vastly fuller etymology and
definitions, but the above seems to pretty much sum it up.

It's these sort of discoveries that make opening
dictionaries the great indoor sport that it is today.

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Only the mediocre can always be at their best." -- Mencken
For an average time write uunet!microsoft!frankm
For an even more mediocre time try frankm@microsoft.com