HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anon-1016@twwells.com (Prisoner)
Subject: Re: Relkie
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:01:10 GMT

Z57N000 writes:
: And I don't lie about things like this.

Let me second that. I do not believe that Relkie is lying about
anything.


Prisoner



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com (Nancy Agnew)
Subject: Re: "go ask alice"
Originator: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:55:47 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Keywords: book, relevant


In article <cloister.714095305@milton>, cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell) writes:
>i was listening to "white rabbit" by jefferson airplane, and the line "go ask
>alice, i think she'll know" reminded me of a book called (i think) "go ask
>alice" that i ran across about 10 years ago.  i recall reading it in a library,
>and feeling a lot of empathy for the girl about whom the book was.  if memory
>serves, the book was the diaries of a runaway girl from an abusive background.
>the author of the book is listed as "anonymous" because i don't think anyone
>knows who the diaries really belonged to.  anyway, i'm posting to ask if anyone
>else has heard of or read this book.  it might have been called "all about
>alice" but something tells me that's the title of some other thing.

I think the "all about" comes from _All About Eve_  -- a different thing
entirely.  

KK is right about the title and drug-related content of the book.  I
don't remember whether there was abuse or not (but then, this was in,
maybe, '72 that I read it).  It was another of those dark, coming of
age books that most likely did include abusive backgrounds (eg, _Lisa
Bright and Dark_ and _I Never Promised You a Rose Garden_).

The "White Rabbit" song is referring to Alice in Wonderland -- also
involving drugs (the mushroom that said "eat me" and the whatever it was
that said "drink me") and so on.  Can't remember all the lyrics, but
I believe that is the source of the allusions.

I wouldn't be surprised if the book got its title from the song rather
than the other way around, but I don't know the publication dates on 
either.  I don't think it is unusual to have these all seem related...
As I recall they were kind of concurrent (but 20 years ago is a long
time, it's getting fuzzy).

have a good weekend everyone...I'm off to the Smokies for a few days.
NLA
-- 
Nancy Agnew                         sasnla@unx.sas.com
SAS Institute Inc,  SAS Campus Dr,  Cary NC 27513-2414
My company's opinions are not likely mine, and vice versa.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1186@twwells.com (Lavender)
Subject: gazooks
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 00:21:45 GMT


I have just requested the help file from anon-help@twwells.com

I do hope it dispells my real fear of posting anything other that
very safe comments here ...


I  need support over and above what some friends can give me and I was
so hoping that I could get it here ...

Thanks to some of you for your hugs but they are doing nothing to
dispell my fear of being shafted in this group.

I am just learning to use this medium and I am just learning to
express some of my emotions which have been dead for so long that I am
scrared by them !

I am risking even now by just using the anon service and bloody hell
why cannot a person feel free to post whatever the hell s/he chooses
in this newsgroup and ask for feedback ?

Comments requested please.














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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Soap Opera
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:50:28 GMT

John C. King (kingj@hpcc01.corp.hp.com) wrote:

: >But Relkie ...
: >you can't turn asar into a soap opera ...
: >contribute Relkie, don't dominate ...
: >Please pipe down and join us...
: 
: >-Karla
: 
: I agree.  But since I am human I have taken sides.  If What's His Name is
: in a position of power (agewise certainly, and being the asar anon admin?)
: then he abused Karla.  There's no whining or sniveling or "buts" that will

Oops, I think you mean Relkie.

: change my opinion.
: 
: John
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: falcao@felix.metaphor.com (Ronnie Falcao)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Hypnotic therapy
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:00:45 GMT
Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems, Mountain View, CA


Bradshaw's books contain suggestions for meditation exercises
which are really self-hypnosis.  He recommends recording the
exercise on an audio cassette, tailoring it as desired, and
playing it back to induce a hypnotic state.  I can remember
only one such exercise in "Healing the Shame" but have found
the other types of exercises in that book also helpful.  His
"Homecoming" book has a program of "meditations" to connect with
your inner child at different developmental stages.

I've found this approach very easy and very powerful.

	- Ronnie

falcao@metaphor.com

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: ftlao@acad3.alaska.edu (OSSANDER LINDA A)
Subject: RE: a message from solitary
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Keywords: Foster-father 
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:58:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.133642.1@fnalno.fnal.gov>, holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman) writes...
>In article <Bt5rEM.MK@twwells.com>, anon-1016@twwells.com (Prisoner) writes:
>> 

Lots of stuff deleted...

> 
>I don't know yet if you're "blaming the victim" or whatever, but you are
>missing the point.  You placed youself in a position where you were going to be
>her foster father.  You made yourself her parent in her eyes.  From the point
>at which you did that, sex with her should have been an automatic no, even if
>she ripped your clothes off and said "Take me."

I have to agree with Daniel on this..Any fAther figure who has sex with a child
is in a position of "POWER"  She would do it out of that if nothing else.  It
is simply another case of molesting a child. Granted this child is 16 but she
had already been groomed by her past experiances.  Once a child has been taught
in a certain manner it is hard to stop what is happening if not impossible.

I am now an adult and very cautious about having a relationship with a man
because I do not want to get into another relationship were I am being used.
Don't get me wrong because I love men but I never want to ex[periance the pain
I felkt when I finially left my ex-husband and divorced him against what
everyone including my lawyer told me I should do.  

So even though I think Relkie is being very manipulative which I cannot stand
(having put up with 20 years of it with my ex-husband)   I do understand her
behavior but I also say that : YOU BILL had no damn business having sex with
this child! If you want sex go see your wife or another adult not a child who
is already confused enough. 

I am not taking sides here with either Relkie or Prisoner/Bill Personally I
think it should be taken to the proper authorities..
If anyone whishes to flame me or comment come on and e-mail  me lets just get
this group back on tract here.
It would be a shame to scare people away who could benifit from being here but
who may be scared because of this.

>-- 
>Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
>HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
>HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
>                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
>Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
>   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
>TEAM STAR Charter Member             | Speak the Word.
>Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.

Thanks for listening..

                           -Linda-

                      FTLAO.ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: Abuse
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:23:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.210708.25952@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>Bear Giles (bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU) wrote:
>
>: This is secondhand, but when my mother learned I was starting to see
>: a psychologist she commented that "they always trace it back to the
>: parents."
>
>Who *else* are they going to trace it back to other than family members?
>An overwhelming percentage of abuse comes from family members, usually
>immediate family. :(

At the time there was no expectation (at least on my part) of abuse.
I met the psychologist at a "free university" class on relationships,
had seen her for a few times to discuss a certain (rather annoying)
redhead and not talked about much else.

It was almost like a child yelling "Well, I didn't eat any cookies!"
when a parent walks into the kitchen and stares at the counter (where
cookies happen to be stored) while trying to decide what to cook for
dinner.


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Z57N@UNB.CA (Z57N000)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: RE: a message from solitary
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:10:28 GMT
Organization: The University of New Brunswick

In article <Bt44rE.HA2@twwells.com> anon-1016@twwells.com (Prisoner) writes:
>When Relkie began writing again, it had been my intention to pay
>no attention, as part of my decision to not participate further in
>this group and in particular to not further interfere in her life.
>I've done enough damage as it is, to myself and others, and have
>no desire to do more.
>
I promised I wouldn't post again either. But what the hell. ASAR
has a magnetic pull, a siren song.

>However, when Relkie dragged in the APS, frightening people with
>those vague hints, I saw two alternatives. One was to remain
>silent and let her scare people, unnecessarily. This would
>certainly have not been good for them. The other was to state my
>side of the story so that people could judge for themselves
>whether there was grounds for concern. This has the risk that,
>because I am now participating in the group again, I'll do more
>damage, but that has to be balanced against my silence certainly
>resulting in harm done.
>
I WAS NOT OUT TO CAUSE HARM. But it's too late for that.
I believe I stated before that if the perpetrator wished to come
forward and say what he had to say, he could, and I didn't particu-
larly want to have anything to do with it directly.
I am, however, waiting to hear what you have to say.

>This morning, I began a response. I became very sick because of
>the attempt and was unable to finish. For right now, I wish to
>say only a few things. Yes, we had sex. However, her recollection
>differs somewhat from mine. Also, the way she told of the event
>left out an awful lot of important things, things that I think
>make a very big difference in how that event will be viewed.
>Until I am able to finish writing about it, it is my hope that
>people will suspend judgement.
>
It's probably too late for that in many cases. Judgements have been
passed in both directions.
>
>

*************************************************************
"Relkie Cassandra," "Darella," whatever...

"That girl is strange but special/A most peculiar mademoiselle
It's a pity and a sin/she doesn't quite fit in/But she really is
a funny girl..." -- BEAUTY AND THE BEAST

BITNET: Z57N@UNB.CA     OTHER NETS: relkie@bayview.COM
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: "go ask alice"
Summary: anyone else read this?
Keywords: book, relevant
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:48:25 GMT

i was listening to "white rabbit" by jefferson airplane, and the line "go ask
alice, i think she'll know" reminded me of a book called (i think) "go ask
alice" that i ran across about 10 years ago.  i recall reading it in a library,
and feeling a lot of empathy for the girl about whom the book was.  if memory
serves, the book was the diaries of a runaway girl from an abusive background.
the author of the book is listed as "anonymous" because i don't think anyone
knows who the diaries really belonged to.  anyway, i'm posting to ask if anyone
else has heard of or read this book.  it might have been called "all about
alice" but something tells me that's the title of some other thing.

-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: New newsgroup?  alt.politics.sexual.abuse???
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:23:19 GMT


Though I've found a lot of these posts interesting, and I have strong feelings
about them, I think we have enough ways to divide ourselves than to line
up along party lines, and or issue lines.  Sometimes it really can't be  
avoided, as in some of the discussions of homophobia we've had, but I
echo m&m in saying I'd really like to see this go to email.

I think we need to get back to ehugs and warm fuzzies!

Sherri



Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Z57N000 <Z57N@UNB.CA>
Subject: ***I WON'T LET MYSELF BE A MUPPET***
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 21:51:05 GMT

In article <Bt7HsK.AE2@twwells.com> anon-1016@twwells.com (Prisoner) writes:
>I'm not sure how to say anything without doing more damage. I feel
>like if I say anything to or about Relkie that isn't directly
>related to this recent thing, that I'm maybe doing even more
>manipulation. I have no way to judge.
>
That's up to Prisoner, it's his decision, and we'll see what happens.
>
(things deleted, because hey, we've already read them)

>But guilt. That's the killer. It blinds me. It doesn't help that
>there is someone hurt and that I'm part of the cause. I hope this
>comes across right but it doesn't matter if I'm really to blame
>in that situation. The guilt I feel is independent of that. It is
>enough that I'm part of the cause. I cause hurt whether or not I
>will it. And that means that, because I do know this, that I must
>accept blame for the hurt I cause.

I am not flaming, but I am being stern here: I doubt that Bill
would be feeling guilt over the matter if he was not to blame
for something. However, to me, blame ("he did it") and assignation
of responsibility for one's actions are slightly different. I am
trying to put across the latter, not the former.

>I don't know how to deal with this. I wish to offer some kind of
>help, recompense, whatever, to her. But I feel like even doing
>that would be wrong. It isn't my place, maybe, or just that I'd
>be using that as a handle. I don't know. My feelings say: stay
>away no matter what; you'll hurt her some more. The rest of me
>says: you owe her and may not let your fears prevent your
>assuming your obligation.

What kind of recompense are we talking about here? Certainly a
debt has been incurred here -- but i don't know what the hell
can be done about paying it back. Elaborate.

>But should I offer recompense to Relkie? Also: there are things I
>could say to Relkie that might be of some use to her. Just
>rational things but they do come from me. Is that good or bad?
>What about where I've been the last two months? Do I have the
>right to talk about my own hurts that came out of this? Or would
>that be manipulative? Would that be invalidating her pain?

Talk all you want. But separate your rationality from your emotional
talk with either a spoiler heading or some sort of alert as to
the content of your message. I will not read posts concerning the
latter. Others may not want to read the former.

********************************************************************
Darella Cassandra Pierson ("RELKIE")

"IF YOU LIVED HERE YOU'D BE HOME NOW!"
STEVE TAYLOR/CHAGALL GUEVARA -- "Take Me Back To Love Canal"
********************************************************************
>.
>.

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: enigma@netcom.Netcom.COM (Enigma)
Subject: Re: a long night
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 16:16:27 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Service

In article <Bt84uC.EAz@twwells.com> anon-1016@twwells.com (Prisoner) writes:

I didn't realize at first what this article was about:  I usually read
this group when I first get up, and I suppose I wasn't feeling that 
alert - I missed the name "Prisoner" in the header.  I'm going along,
wondering "scooter?  Maine turnpike?", but when I finally realized what
I was reading, I skipped the rest of the article.

I said before that I thought the details didn't matter.  What I'm feeling
right now is that I don't want to read them.  I've been date-raped too,
and the memories are not pleasant.  I'm working on my old memories and
old issues, but not at the crack of dawn when I'm getting ready to go to
work.  I felt annoyed that there was no spoiler in the header, but then
I had the thought that asking Prisoner to take care of *my* needs was
silly.  I'm much better equipped to take care of my needs than he is.
I think I'm going to quit reading asar in the mornings, or perhaps on
weekdays altogether.  Perhaps I won't read it at all for a week or two.
I don't have the emotional energy to get all caught up in The Situation
again.  This is not my problem - I have already offered what compassion,
sympathy, and advice I could to both people, and staying caught up in
their issues feels wrong to me.  I have a life of my own to get on with.

I wish you well, Prisoner, but I wish you'd find someone else to tell
all this stuff too.  Someone emotionally healthy, and qualified to
help you.  A lot of people here have all they can handle to stay 
afloat on their own, and can't really do much in the way of keeping
you from drowning - I recommend you find someone who can swim to 
help you.

Holly
--
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)     
-- 
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)     
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: Re: Abuse
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:48:08 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <1992Aug13.210708.25952@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>>: This is secondhand, but when my mother learned I was starting to see
>>: a psychologist she commented that "they always trace it back to the
>>: parents."  (I know I got a lot of discouragement from her directly,
>>: but she made that comment to another relative).
>>
>>Who *else* are they going to trace it back to other than family members?
>>An overwhelming percentage of abuse comes from family members, usually
>>immediate family. :(

>"It" isn't "abuse", "it" is "his problems".  His mother was worried that
>psychologists were going to blame her for his problems.  Even the most
>committed student of abusive families has to admit that not all problems
>are due to environment or one's upbringing.  Some people have mental
>problems of their own making, or they just come that way due to bad genes.
>Sometimes there's no one to blame.

i don't think that's true in this case.  his mother's statement really makes me
think "i wonder what she has to hide?"  if she knew she were not guilty of any
abuse, why would she say that?  she would know it wasn't going to happen to
her.  but her saying "they always trace it back to the parents" says to me that
she's giving herself a way out when it *does* come back at her.  she can think
back to this initial denial and say to herself "yep, i was right.  it's not
really my fault, it's just those psychologists out to blame parents for
everything."  this way she never has to admit to herself her own culpability
for her son's problems.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bob@reed.edu (Robert Ankeney)
Subject: Re: please stop
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:08:39 GMT

In article <Bt4H04.IE6@twwells.com> anon-1160@twwells.com (poohbear) writes:
>
>And for my small triumph:  I have lived through the weekend.  Well, it is
>10:30 Sun night and i will go to sleep soon, so it isn't quite over but I think
>the danger is past.  Thank God it was cloudy here during the full moon,
>even though that doesn't change it it makes it less potent for me.  I lived
>I lived and I didn't go back in the hospital.  Although I am afraid that I
>would have if I had told anyone about my cutting...I went really deep this
>time, and think I probAbly need stitches, but I do not wAnt to tell anyone
>because they will come and take me away.
>
>I will not get all upset in this post.  I am alive and not in a hospital
>after a weekend, and a weekend with a full moon at that.  I couldn't
>not cut myself, but i did not O.D.  and now I am alive and I even drew
>1 happy picture!  Sorry I am starting to leave again, and gosh I have been
>present this whole weekend!  anyway goodbye.  I wish I could hug but I 
>cannot for now.
>

Poohbear -
    I had to come back to your post and say it really touched me.  It reached
an old, pained part of me from long ago.  Please don't cut yourself.  Try
writing.  I write every day in a journal and it helps.  Try using a pen for
your knife and words for your blood.  You may be surprised at how deep words
can cut.  Writing down my pain, and sometimes reading it back out loud to
myself can relieve the pressures of conflict I sometimes feel.

     Take care, and congratulations on holding on.  Remember always there is
a clear space on the other side of pain.  It's worth finding each time.

     Robert


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Ankeney                 | "Yield and overcome.                |
...!tektronix!reed!bob         |  Bend and be straight.              |
...!tektronix!bob@reed.EDU     |  Empty and be full."    - Lao Tzu   |