HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vonzelow@adobe.com (Jon von Zelowitz)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Romex & Thinwall Answer
Date: 5 Sep 92 01:27:04 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

Here's the situation I asked for advice about:
>I am wiring a new outlet in my laundry room. The wire will come up from the
>crawlspace, through a hole I will drill in the sole plate (that's the 2x4 at
>the base of the wall), to the outlet. Since the walls are unfinished (no
>sheetrock, studs showing), I know that Code says I need to protect the wire
>in the laundry room with (for example) thinwall conduit.
>
>The wiring in the crawlspace is all Romex. As far as I understand, you don't
>run Romex through TWC, you run wires. So, my question is, can I strip off
>the outer sheathing from the Romex from the point where it enters the TWC? I
>can't find any mention of this in several wiring books. Thanks (Chris ;-) ).

OK, folks. I called the San Francisco Electrical Inspector.

1. YES, the wiring must be protected. TWC is fine for this.

2. YES, it is OK to run Romex through TWC for this situation.

3. An alternative would be to place a junction box in the basement, and run
THHN out of the box through the TWC.

Two other helpful comments from netters:

1. Use a GFCI. (I was planning to.)

2. Just put up a small piece of drywall, thus producing a "finished" wall.
Then the problem is reduced to the usual "inside-a-wall" wiring. (Wire the
outlet before installing the drywall, of course. :-) ) This is probably the
easiest solution of all.

Thanks, everybody!

   Jon von Zelowitz   vonzelow@mv.us.adobe.com   ...uunet!adobe!vonzelow
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Credit report
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 22:47:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.235901.7046@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> rim@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Bob McKay) writes:
>egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) writes:
>
>>In article 87647@netnews.upenn.edu, kaplan@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu (Peter Kaplan -Yodh) writes:
>>>
>>If the source of inaccurate information maintains that it is indeed
>>accurate, that is exactly your responsibility.  TRW is under no legal
>>obligation to you (how could they be, you don't pay them anything! :^)
>
>Is this entirely true? I would have thought (at least in common law
>jurisdictions) that a suit for slander would be available, and given the
>cost that a bad credit report can impose, that significant damages could
>be assessed.

While this is true in Britain (and perhaps where you are), here in the
States you must not only prove that the information was untrue and
damaging, you must usually prove that the slanderer *intended* to do you
damage (in some States you need only prove that the slanderer knew it was
false). This is usually quite difficult. The same is true for libel.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | "Zero Defects": The result of shutting down a
                    |    production line.
                    |         Kelvin Throop - The Management Dictionary
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: blk@mitre.org (Brian L. Kahn)
Subject: Drywells
Organization: The MITRE Corp. Bedford, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:42:02 GMT


I've got a drywell on my house that drains slower than I would like.
For clarification, the drywell is separate from the septic system, it
is connected to the sink and dishwasher.  I am going to rent a Bobcat
with a backhoe to do a variety of digging jobs around the place, and I
am thinking of fiddling with the drywell while I have that equipment.
I have not been able to locate any books that don't need to be special
ordered, I don't want to order out books I can't examine first and I
don't really have time (2-3 weeks) for books to come in.  I have a few
questions netters might be able to help me with.

First, is soil surrounding a drywell (or leachline) contaminated?  Is
special disposal required?  How much of a smell will I make, and for
how long?

Unfortunately I'm not sure exactly where the drywell is located.  The
town has no plans for the 40 year old house.  My best estimation comes
from inserting a tape measure into the cleaning plug hole, which
places the thing not too far from the foundation and under some
asphault.  Even in sandy soil I can expect a drywell to have several
feet of stone surrounding it, right?
--
B<   Brian Kahn   blk@security.mitre.org   "may the farce be with you"

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com (Les Bartel)
Subject: Re: Electrical wiring for fixtures
Reply-To: lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
Organization: Dazix, An Intergraph Company
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:47:44 GMT

For overhead lighting, I prefer to have the hot pair go to the ceiling
box and then to the switch (at least in certain rooms).  This would
allow someone to install a ceiling fan where the wall switch can control
the light and the pull-chain on the fan controls the fan independently
of the light switch.  If it were wired the other way, you would have to
leave the light switch on and use the (most likely less convenient)
pull-chain switches for both the light and fan (unless you get one of
those fancy remotes that always get lost).

 - les

-- 
Les Bartel			lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
Dazix, An Intergraph Company	uunet!ingr!b23b!naomi!lester
Huntsville, AL			(205) 730-8537

There are three kinds of people in the world:
Those who can count, and those who can't.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: hillman@sfu.ca (Steve Hillman)
Subject: Re: Home security tips from a burglar
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:41:07 GMT

so690561@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Susan Elizabeth Olson) writes:

>...so much for the "no gun" solution request of an earlier poster - I'm
>interested to see if anyone else out there comes up with other home
>security tips that don't involve the purchase of a weapon.

Our house was recently broken into. We're renting it out right now, so it 
wasn't actually our stuff that got stolen, but it got me to thinking of ways
to deter burglars. Our house is situated in such a way that it is both easy
and desirable for people (mostly school kids) to cut through our yard, so the
first thing that's going up is a fence. The second is motion sensor lights.
Motion sensor lights can be wired to turn on things besides the built in 
lights. This allows you to (for example) turn a light on inside the house
when the lights outside come on.
 
Once we move in, we'll be getting a dog. That should help. But another thing
that I think will prove helpful is security cameras. Not necessary the
ultra expensive panning cameras - a couple of surplus B&W cameras would do, 
as long as they're mounted somewhere where they can easily be seen. A couple
of signs stating that the house is monitored by surveillance cameras couldn't
hurt. That way, if someone DOES break in, you have them on video (set up
an old VCR to continuously record the cameras - Radio shack sells a box that
will flip between different camera inputs every few seconds).
 
[Incidentally, we live in Canada, where it would be MUCH harder to get a gun,
assuming we even wanted to..]

-- 
Steve "Skillman" Hillman                "Everyone generalizes"
hillman@sfu.ca
skillman@tz.wimsey.bc.ca
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Hurricane Andrew's effect on building materials
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:52:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL

In article <1992Sep9.133454.14188@nscf.org> mlf@nscf.org (Mary Lou Freil) writes:
>Well I can't comment on the midwest but here in Georgia building materials
>are now becomming quite scarce. According to our builder (he built our
>house last year and is about to start building a barn for us) the
>price of plywood doubled last week.

Ah, yes, don't you just love our free enterprise system!  Whenever someone's
down, there's always someone willing to step in, lend a hand,
and give them another kick.  Sounds like time to save all the newspaper
ads you can, and hold the dealers to their advertised prices.
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
From: duggan@terminus.gatech.edu (Rick Duggan)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: how to locate new developments
Date: 13 Sep 92 15:01:22 GMT
Organization: College of Computing

In article <Sep.11.15.34.35.1992.19125@yoko.rutgers.edu> majidi@yoko.rutgers.edu (Masoud Majidi) writes:
>
>Dear netters,
>
>Is there any way to get a list of new developments (developments that
>are under construction) in a county? i.e. Is there a government agency
>which would have such information readily so that one can call and ask
>for a copy of it.

For 20 areas in the United States, you can get a copy of Communities
Magazine (name may vary in your area) from Housing Guides of America.
The number is 1-800-HGA-3579.  For the asking, they'll give you a 6
month subscription (3 bi-monthly issues).  If you keep looking, just
ask for another subscription.  This is a *great* magazine.  It lists
all new developments with a map (not the greatest map, so get your
own).  The subdivisions are listed by price range, so you don't waste
any time looking at stuff you can't afford.  We used this to plan
our days of looking, and we ended up finding our subdivision in it.
It also has tips up front and handy things like mortgage payments
and tax estimates.

[No, I don't work for them.  Really.]

-rick

"Random acts of violence just don't do it for me anymore.  Call it 
 maturity.  Bang!  Bang!  Heh, heh." - Cactus Jack WCW Saturday Night 07/04/92
Rick Duggan | duggan@cc.gatech.edu | CS1410 TA - Section A
Office Hours (CC 103): Tue 1:30-3:00 Thu 1:30-2:30
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: rsd@sei.cmu.edu (Richard S D'Ippolito)
Subject: Re: Hurricane Andrew's effect on building materials
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:53:50 GMT


In article <1992Sep09.155252.15647@i88.isc.com>, Jonathan E. Quist writes
about rising building material prices:

|> Ah, yes, don't you just love our free enterprise system!  Whenever someone's
|> down, there's always someone willing to step in, lend a hand,
|> and give them another kick.  Sounds like time to save all the newspaper
|> ads you can, and hold the dealers to their advertised prices.

One of the things that our system apparently fails to do is provide basic
education on economics, mostly because there isn't a free market in schools.

Are we to conclude that because some folks freely chose to live in a dangerous
area, others who are waiting for their homes to be finished must live in tents
so that those in Florida can have new homes?  How do we explain that to the
innocent family in Wisconsin?  If pressed, I would probably bid up the price
of needed materials to house my family rather than be on the street through no
fault of my own.  Have you opened up your home to one of those displaced
families?

The current price is based on current and projected demand, and is optimized
for production capacity.  If demand suddenly rises, producers are forced into
paying overtime wages or bidding for surplus labor at market rates, and forced
into pressing less efficient machinery into service or running current
machinery without normal maintenance, for which they will surely pay later.

I would hope that the insurance companies in Florida price the insurance
appropriately so that more prudent folks in the rest of the country aren't
paying their bills.  A truly free market would make the cost of living in
hurricane (or tornado, or earthquake) alley commensurate with the local risk.
After all, this was a predictable event, right?

Getting the government involved has historically only made things worse(*) --
I pay to subsidize water for people who want to live artificially in the
California deserts and watch their homes regularly destroyed by fire,
earthquakes, and mudslides.

Please don't accuse me of gross insensitivity to the plight of these folks --
I've donated over 300 items of kids' clothing, so it is possible to help
without further aggravating the situation.  Someone needs to figure out the
social costs of NOT relocating these people to safer places.  Think of how
many people who will now live in paralyzing fear or depression  -- the mental
health workers down there are already overloaded.

Rich


(*) There is a considerable body of literature from the social scientists
crossing political lines that relates to incentives and government help
programs.


   "Please keep in mind that the ultimate goal [of hi-fi] is the
   reproduction of art, and that the invocation of science, while a neat
   parlour trick, is often unnecessary, flawed, and unreasonable."
   --  name mercifully withheld...                            rsd@sei.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan)
Subject: Re: Home security tips from a burglar
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:08:37 GMT


In article <1992Sep9.233600.17853@Athena.dal.fsd.mot.com> jerryc@Athena.dal.fsd.mot.com (Jerry Culp) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.182912.25073@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes:
>>
>>Don't leave bushes where they will shield someone breaking into
>>your house.
>
>It would seem that having particularly obnoxious shrubbery below a window
>would be to your advantage. Who would try climbing over or through a 
>cactus to get to a window ? Or rose bushes ?

The problem with bushes is that there is usually a gap between the
bushes and the outside wall of the house. Cacti are fine, since they
don't have much in the way of dense foliage, but any bush that will
obscure a burglar behind it while he cuts a hole in the perimiter of
your dwelling is a bad thing. A simple jacket will protect him long
enough to get past the thorns in a rose bush, and once he's next to the
house he's in the small gap area where there aren't any thorns.
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Windows leaking - advice wanted
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:18:13 GMT
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <15328@umd5.umd.edu> bwilliam@oyster.smcm.edu (Bill Williams) writes:
>During a recent prolonged rainstorm with wind blowing the rain against
>the side of the house, we noticed dark stains on the interior walls,
>running down from the bottom edges of a couple of windows on the windward
>side of the house.  Presumably water is getting blown into the space
>between the external wall and the sheetrock and wetting out the sheetrock
>cover along the seams (the stains are remarkably straight and
>symmetrical).

>I'm a real novice at house-construction stuff, and I'd like to fix these
>putative leaks but I don't know where to begin.  Windows are fairly
>self-contained, right, and can be removed and replaced more-or-less in
>one piece?  Taking the windows out to inspect the damage seems like the
>first step.  Can someone recommend some good books about windows and how
>to deal with them?

Weeelll, window units aren't that easy to remove.  There's a rough framing
(part of the house), and the window unit is usually nailed or screwed
inside the rough frame.  Then all the trim is added, caulking and so-on.
Removing them is a major job if you're trying to avoid doing any damage
to them.  Chances are, by the time you manage to remove them, you'd have
to buy new ones.

What you really need to do is inspect the outside of the window very
carefully.  Especially with wood window frames.  Ie:

	- is the caulking coming apart?
	- is the window frame wood and it needs a coat of paint?
	- crummy windows with lousy seals?
	- sliding windows need drainage holes to drain the water from
	  the tracks.  Are they plugged?

From the perspective of water leaks, most windows can be sealed reasonably
easily by ordinary maintenance - paint and caulking.  Unless the frames
have started to rot.  Even rotted frames can be repaired if it hasn't
gotten too far.

Once the windows are resealed, you wait to see what happens with the
drywall.  If there's been enough dampness, you may have to repair the
wall.
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: suggested weapons (was: Killing burglars.)
Date: 5 Sep 92 04:17:24 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1SEP199209195367@utkvx4.utk.edu> drevik@utkvx4.utk.edu (Drevik, Steve) writes:
>In article <mwBeqB1w161w@cdthq.UUCP>, gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston) writes...

>Mr. Heston... can you read?  There must be > a dozen requests to
>move this to rec.guns.  Thanks.

Things propagate through the net at different speeds.  He may not have
seen those posts prior to his posting being made.

I've tried to turn the discussion to hardening the target (a legitimate
house issue) but didn't get very far...

Any way we can get this turned to things like alarms, shutters, lights,
steel doors, saferooms, cellular phones, ... and away from guns?

>
>
>>mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) writes:
>> 
>>> So, what specific weapons and ammo do you folks recommend for home 
>>> protection?  Assume it's for an adult with no previous firearms experience
>>> (bows and crossbows aside) and a willingness to learn.  (Of course, no weapon
>>> gets into my house under *my* power before I've been properly trained with 
>>> it.)  Goals are to maximize effectiveness (shooting to wound is stupid) while
>>> minimizing both risk to others (pass-through on walls) and property damage.
>> 
>>At last, a rational question!
>> 
>>I use a .357 Ruger Security Six revolver, made of stainless steel, 
>>loaded with inverted hollowbase wadcutters (handloads, in .357 cases).
>>This combination is reliable, won't jam trying to eject something,
>>is heavy enough to absorb recoil, and the loads are comparatively
>>mild, so there's not too much recoil to recover from if a second
>>shot is needed.
>> 
>>The load is reputed to make a .357 entrance hole and a 12" exit 
>>hole, but I have not personally verified this. A friends' brother
>>reportedly did, removing most of a burglars (armd and threatening)
>>back with three shots. (He had just gotten home from fast-draw 
>>team practice.)
>> 
>>The theory is that the IHBWC will tear hell out of the first thing
>>it hits, be it burglar or wall, and expend 90% of its' energy there,
>>greatly reducing the hazards from a miss. From test firing, I know 
>>they keyhole after about 30', which also causes them to lose energy,
>>once more limiting hazard. I consider it safer than a 12 gauge with
>>buckshot, and *far* easier to handle.
>> 
>>Gary Heston, at home....
>>gary@cdthq.uucp


-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Asea Washer?
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Distribution: na
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:11:50

In article <1992Sep9.165121.27596@nwra.com> mark@nwra.com (Mark Baldwin) writes:
   [re] Asea dishwashers...  $699 to $1100. The low price is no more
   than the high-end domestic models.

erickson@cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson) said:
   [Bosch] cost somewhere in the mid 700's...

champlin@pa.dec.com (Virgil Champlin) said:
   [ASEA] The middle and top of the line are $829 and $929 respectively.

Asea and Bosch seem to be excellent dishwashers, however these prices
show that they are much more expensive than domestic dishwashers.  We
bought a top-of-the-line In-Sink-Erator (minus electronic controls,
which as far as I can tell are just a gimmick) for about $430.

I would dearly have liked to get a good European front-loading clothes
washer, but the best price I could find for Bosch (e.g.) was $1000,
compared to about $400 for Amana (with stainless steel tub).

By the way, European washers generally heat water internally.  Does
anyone know if they can also mix external sources of hot water?  That
would be much more economical for those of us with gas water heaters.

	-s
From: fields@acuson.com (Julian Fields)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Little brown bugs
Date: 10 Sep 92 03:57:12 GMT
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California

>In article <1992Sep3.073613.1%rtsmv1.decnet@edwards-vax.af.mil> joffe%rtsmv1.decnet@edwards-vax.af.mil writes:
>>
>>	We are having a problem with little brown bugs that invade rice,
>>flower, cereal, and any kind of grain products.  Does anyone have experience
>>with these?

>>	Is there an organic method of getting rid of these?  If not, what would
>>be the best kind of pesticide to use?

Yes, two Ziploc bags. One inside the other.

Put all rice, cereal, etc in plastic and your bugs
will starve to death.
Of course, your present rice supply might have bugs
already, so put any new rice in a new bag.

-- 
Julian Fields, Jr        fields@acuson.com  
VLSI Design Engineering Consultant 
415-929-9112x2408 work,408-773-8197h
This is from ~/.tail
From: jonathan@cs.pitt.edu (Jonathan Eunice)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Earth-sheltered housing?
Date: 16 Sep 92 04:05:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh Computer Science

I've recently become interested in earth-sheltered housing.  I have a
stack of books on the subject, and they uniformly claim very good
passive solar characteristics.  I've never actually seen or been in
one of these, however, and I'm wondering whether any of you have
experience with them?  Do they live up to the claims?  What are the
gotchas/downsides?

I'd also be interested if you have experience with composting (ie,
flushless) toilets or grey-water recycling systems.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris)
Subject: Re: Invisible Fencing
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:33:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Reply-To: harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <SEG.92Sep8072913@cbncp7.ATT.COM>, seg@cbncp7.ATT.COM (Scott Gordon) writes:
|> >> In article <1992Sep6.175841.18084@kodak.kodak.com> dennett@sunshine.Kodak.COM (Charles R. Dennett) writes:

|> 
|> Be kind to your dog.  Would you want to be shocked like the person holding
|> the collar in his hand?

	Use of this collar is no different than other negative re-enforcement
	training devices. Remember also that the normal collar gives an audible
	warning delay before shocking - hence very few actual shocks once
	training is complete.
|> 
|> Remember also that it is only your dog that is wearing the collar.  It is
|> not the neighborhood children or other dogs.  I wouldn't want to put my
|> dog in that sort of jeopardy.

	Jeopardy is defined by the specific users neighborhood. The kids
	and dogs in my neighborhood all like to play with our dog and he
	appreciates that. Perhaps you should move?
	
	If it wasn't for an invisible fence he'd be back on his 15 foot chain.

	It was when he was on his chain that he was hit by a car. 
	
	How? Well, seems some kids let him off to play with him and didn't 
	hook him back up. He wandered into the road and was hit. Compare 
	being hit at 40 mph vs an occasional training shock? Seem's like a 
	clear win for the collar.

	I'd say my dog is in jeapordy by *not* being on the invisible fence.

	I'd be happy to talk, via e-mail, to anybody that is considering
	an invisible fence. You'll certainly get a better perspective from
	me than from those who don't have direct experience with them (but
	consider them cruel).

	regards, Mike