HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:13:00 EST
From:         BURT@BRANDEIS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Who's a Platonist

This is just to pick up a thread that Martin and I were following
out and which I let go slack.

I certainly don't want to defend the republic Plato imagines. I wouldn't
want to live there, and doubt if Plato would let me. Does this mean
I have to reject Plato top to bottom? I don't think so.

Clearly one can remain attached to the socratic method, since it is also
the property of others, and perhaps even socrates (to judge from what
are usually thought of as early dialogues and from non-platonic representations
of him) is not a platonist through and through. (In other words, platonism
is a legitimate development of socratic thought, but not perhaps the
only legitimate one.)

But I would also like to retain one more thread, one which seems to me
to be socratic but one which may seem to others to be platonic, which is
the claim that the hard relativism of Callicles and Thrasymachus postpones
but does not finally lay to rest the question of absolute values. That
skepticism (or that soft relativism in which one grants that one may not
have a corner on the truth but still wishes to open one's self to the
rebuking power of truth) need not lead to relativism (in which there is no
truth, only power) seems to me to be true. It also is true I think not only
that conceptions of absolute value are not only not inevitably repressive
but also that there is no real freedom outside of conceptions of
absolute value because only absolute value holds power to something
capable of rebuking power. (Perhaps this aligns me more with Protagoras
than with Plato--to judge from the case for him recently made by
Orlando  Patterson.)\

Best,
John B
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 20:58:50 EDT
From:         Mary Alm <T270102@UNIVSCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Helpful replies

Thanks Michael, Eric, Niall, Bob, and Ted for info. about feminist lists.
Hmmm ... responses were all from men.  Now my challenge is to survey my
options and pick a list or two or three.  --Mary
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET"
Original_cc:  LHAMPLYONS
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 20:51:00 MDT
From:         LHAMPLYONS@CUDENVER.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Your Help

Cindy,
I have some names of colleagues in Estonia, in Teaching English as Second
Language; a couple of them were over here last year just before independence.
I don't know if that's the type of English you had in mind...
Liz
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 23:21:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFYY@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      telephone interchange

Duane Franklet,
regarding your questions on the over the telephone Interchange
that Jeff Hooks, Mark Harris, and I did in new york.  We used
9600 bps modems at all three sites (Shiva netserial modems,
actually).  This allowed all three sites to share the same
appleshare drive.  When we ran Interchange, we simply clicked on
the same preference file (at Michigan, I believe), and that
locked all three of us onto the same file structure.

The Interchange was exactly as you'd see in your LAN classroom,
except that the speed was geared down to about twelve seconds
per transmission.  That might seem like a long time, but the
thing about a classroom of interchange transmitters isn't the
speed.  The messages pop up in sequence regardless of when the
sender sent it out.  We're not trying to broadcast the 1919 World
Series.

All I can say is that it worked well.  And would be a powerful
tool for classes wishing to motivate inter-state writers.  I see
a purpose to that sort of thing; others don't.  Fred
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:49:57 EDT
From:         rselfe@MTU.EDU
Subject:      Warn your freinds!!

Warn yer families and their neighbors . . .

>From the Merc's wire services:

"Biologists report today in the British journal Nature that they have
discovered the world's largest living organism: a 40-ACRE, CONTINUOUS
NETWORK OF FILAMENTS, TENTACLES, AND MUSHROOMS in a forest in the

UPPER PENINSULA OF MICHIGAN.

"It weighs as much as 220,000 pounds and is apparently 1,500 years old,
said botanist Myron Smith of the University of Toronto."

The poor guy was testing the DNA of the fungus amongus and kept coming up
with identical matches until the full impact of the discovery occured to
him.  I suspect it's from outer space.

It's nice to be famous for something.

P.S.,  The season is turning even in Houghton, America.  The snow piles
they melt and the students play with frisbees and hacky sacks in the slush.
 Poor desperate buggers.  But I'm STILL SKIING!
Dickie Selfe   rselfe@mtu.edu  (NEW ADDRESS!!!)
1400 Townsend--102 Walker
Michigan Technological U.
Houghton, MI  49931
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X400-Trace: US*UMASSMAIL*UMASS; arrival Fri,
            10 Apr 92 10:38:35 -0400 action Relayed
P1-Message-ID: US*UMASSMAIL*UMASS; 920410103222372-MTASATURN
UA-Content-ID: 920410103222372-
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 10:38:35 -0400
From:         Nick.Carbone@WRITING.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      Reply to New depths in fee-ble-mania

Karen,
     A fee for one on one tutoring?  What possible rationale could they
have?  I don't know if it is possible, but if I were teaching there, I'd
encourage my students to boycott the writing center, to write a letter to
the decision makers on this, and if the boycott does take place, to implement
some kind of alternative tutoring where students can get one on one help.
    It may not be as "expert" as the paid advise, but it can be just as
valuable.

Nick.Carbone@writing.umass.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:12:07 EST
From:         Stuart Selber <SSELBER@MTUS5.CTS.MTU.EDU>
Subject:      Course in Computer Applications

Megafriends:  I'm interested in hearing from those of you who teach in
technical and professional writing programs.  Do you offer a dedicated course
to your students in learning and using software applications (word processing,
desktop publishing, multimedia/hypertext, and so on).  If so, could you jot
down your rationale for the course, your pedagogical objectives, and if your
course currently contains a critical component exploring any political, ethical
and/or ideological issues involved in using technology in the workplace?
Thanks, Dickie and I are trying to pull together a CCCC '93 proposal.


Stuart Selber (sselber@mtus5.cts.mtu.edu)
Michigan Tech
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 11:12:52 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Naive (and tactless?) wondering (1)

 *** Reply to note of 04/07/92 02:52
 Not too much going on in composition at the top schools. Must think it's
 beneath them. Actually, Joe Williams might be able to gloss this for us. He's
 at a top school doing work in rhet/comp. Shucks, what have we heard from Nancy
 Sommers (but persnal narratives) since she went to Harvard? Dave! Behave
 yourself.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Director of Composition
 ___Arizona State University
 ___(602) 965-3853
 ___BITNET: IACDES@ASUACAD
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 08:16:05 EDT
From:         Mary Alm <T270102@UNIVSCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      More thanks for feminist lists

Thank you Claire and Liz for more recommendations concerning feminist
lists.  Did anyone out there besides me get inspired to join one?  --Mary
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:34:49 -0500
From:         "Gail E. Hawisher" <hawisher@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      RE: rhet & architecture

Let me second Bob Connor's favorable comment about your book, David.
We've just finished reading it for a class I'm teaching on writing across
the curriculum, and the students and I have thoroughly enjoyed it!  I was
rather mystified by Dick's being so hard on you.

Gail

________________
Gail E. Hawisher 	       	       hawisher@uiuc.edu
Associate Professor     	       	University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
Department of English   	       	217-333-2989 (work)
Urbana, IL 61801        	       	217-352-8031 (home)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 12:31:56 MDT
From:         Dawn Rodrigues <dawn@RAMBLER.ENGLISH.COLOSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: TENTATIVE SCHEDULE FOR COMPUTERS & WRITING 1992
              Newbold" at Apr 13, 92 11:43 am

Web-

I'm planning to come to C&C, but won't arrive til late Friday.
I've got a room at the hotel, but haven't registered.  Do I do
that Sat. morning?  Can I do it ahead of time?  (The flyer that I
borrowed from Mike Palmquist doesn't have a phone number on
it--just info about airlines and hotels.)

If you can give me a number of someone to call, I'll do that.  Or
whatever you suggest.

Thanks.

Dawn
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 20:17:48 CDT
From:         Bob Boston <S2.RSB@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU>
Subject:      System 7 Woes. Help!!

I've asked it before, and I'll ask it again: Who is using AppleShare 3.0 on a
System 7 network? I've reached my level of incompetence as a techie, and I
need advice. When I tell our Apple service rep that the print spooler takes up
to 20 minutes to handle a PageMaker file (then flushing the file as often as
printing it) he says, "Oh? I haven't heard of that. Let me check." He may be
checking, but I've yet to receive a response from him.

Yesterday (Friday, Apr 10) even Tex, staunch Mac fan that she is, confided
that she was a bit upset when everyone in her class had to sit and watch their
screens for 15 minutes while the file server tried to catch up with the users.

I've been chopping and chopping, but no chips are flying. Anybody got a
chainsaw?

Bob Boston
Iowa State
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 23:04:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFYY@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      7Cs

Lili, your versions of "7Cs" are more romantic than mine.  I'm
simply talking about the computers committee of the 4Cs, the . .
.are you ready now?. . . "Conference on College Composition and
Communication Committee on Computers in Composition."

Whew.  7Cs.  or Seven Seas.  In any case, it is a rocky boat, and
we like it that way.  People who spend long LONG hours working
with computers and writing instruction have existed on the
periphery LONG ENOUGH!  (Yeah!  Right On!)  Time to get active.

I'm the chair of that committee, and I've decided to pull a sort
of Jerry Brown to see if anybody out there really cares.  Hence
my messages on the subject.  As soon as I can get a break, I'm
going to summarize this year's C's meeting and what I think the
"community" can do to give credit to those working with
computer-based pedagogy.  Stay tuned.  Fred
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 12:56:49 EDT
From:         rselfe@MTU.EDU
Subject:      distance Interchange sessions

Fred,
Is there some software that would allow an Internet/Bitnet connection to
act like a modem (like the Shiva) only much faster?  That way anyone who
had Interchange and an address could potentially log into a synchronous a
conversation.  Do you know anyone working on such things?  It's gotta be
possible.

Bill Condon,

The interactive nature of your composition classes at U of M and JCC (he
described this at CCCC along with others) was veryyyy appealing to me.  The
potential for responsible but playful language use was tremendous and
exciting.

Is that the sort of thing you're interested in with your 6 classroom
connections?  By the way, does anyone have Mark Harris' address, and/or is
anyone interested in setting up some interactive classes next year?  We're
on the quarter system here at MTU, uggg, but I'm flexible with the timing.

Dickie Selfe   rselfe@mtu.edu
1400 Townsend--102 Walker
Michigan Technological U.
Houghton, MI  49931
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 14:39:36 -0800
From:         Marsha-W <marsha-w@UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      your conference in early May

Let me know all about it--I may want to come.  Is it held at the University
Place?
What is the cost?  that sort of stuff.  Thanks.

--Marsha Woodbury  / marsha-w@uiuc.edu  /  Urbana, IL USA

It is a little known fact that many lighthouse keepers raise hens.
Apparently, they like to have eggs with their beacon.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:36:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFYY@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      Forging links

I would like to file a brief report for Megabuds regarding
New York Institute of Technology's recent fith-annual
Computers and English Conference, titled "Literature,
Computers and Writing: Forging Connections in the High
School and College English Classroom." This conference took
place on April 3rd.  We had a much better than expected
turnout (Bush's "non-existent" Recession notwithstanding),
and for once the major technology actually worked.

The conference was co-sponsored by NYIT and ACE (the Assembly on
Computers in English, an NCTE Assembly).

Our own Rob Royar was the principal organizer of this
conference and did a fine job of managing the people and
technology.  As a community we need these meetings, large
and small, and the people who will contribute vast amounts
of their own time and energy and sheer guts to carry them
off.  If you've never done one of these meetings, but simply
gone and snickered when something went wrong, you have no
understanding of the risk involved and the ulcer-creating
doubts one can feel all the way through to the blessed end.

For instance, for this meeting Mark Harris (Jackson
Community College, Michigan) and Jeff Hooks (St. Petersburg
College, Florida) had set up a telephone Interchange between
Michigan and Florida, with New York looking on.  The
connection was to be made using DIScourse and Shiva's
Netserial modem and long distance lines.  Well, the modem
didn't come in until the morning of the presentation, and
Rob and I spent frantic hours trying to get computers,
modems, software, and datashow together.  But it worked, and
in effect Mark and Jeff presented at Rob's conference by
"live" text from two other states.  Be aware: I'm not simply
talking about the "chat" mode on Vax and elsewhere.  We had
two actual classroom LANs hooked and taking synchronously.

There was a "technical guy" at NYIT who sweated right along
with Rob and me as we tried to make the connection hold, and
when it did, we cheered (we were in the library) and I
almost did a hi-five with the guy, but didn't (you never
know how these New Yawkers are going to take such
aggressiveness, witness Bill Clinton, the newly appointed
"mean SOB").

It was a good conference, and it gave me and Linda Myers and
others a chance to talk with many regional people who don't
get to NCTE or CCCC or C&W.  I also learned first hand from
Rob the personal effort he has to put into making
CompComDigest work, effort (like so much of what we do)
which seems to float off every year into the great "no
academic credit" in the sky.  I'm hoping that this is the
year the 7C's can change that.  Fred, ykfok@ttacs
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 08:49:20 CDT
From:         N026HF@TAMVM1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Distance Interchange

Fred,

     Larry's profound contribution of the day:

             "Where there's a will (and enough cashola) there's a way."

                               Your welcome.



Dickie, Bill, and anyone else interested in doing interstate interchanges:


             Let's do it!

                               Larry C. in Aggieland
                               (in a minimalist mood)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET
X-VMS-To: MBU
X-VMS-Cc: TWBATSON
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:05:00 EST
From:         TWBATSON@GALLUA.BITNET
Subject:      Distance Interchange

The work we've done with ENFI-over-distance hasn't encouraged me to
think it's a viable environment for teaching writing.  One of the
five sites in our Consortium -- Northern Virginia Community College --
set up an interchange link between two campuses one year and experimented
with uses of the link that year.  Logistical problems nearly overwhelmed
the two teachers (having to use the phone extensively to coordinate
activities at the two campuses was the main difficulty).

My own opinion is that the magic of ENFI is in physical proximity but
electronic communication.  ENFI at a distance seems to be beyond
management.  I've not tried it myself, however, except in very limited
ways, so I can't vouch for the validity of the findings of the one
site.

On the other hands, the new software we are working with (the group decision-
support software) does seem to work over distance since it has structured
modules that are aimed at a specific task, and is anonymous, so that
it is impossible to know who is at which site.

In fact, now that I think about it, that may be a key element that is
essential if distance-ENFI is to work, which is that the site origin
of each message should be masked; I guess that could only be done
in an anonymous or pseudonymous situation.

Relay and XYZZY support realtime conferencing on bitnet/internet.

Trent
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
|: -----------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 10:31:19 EDT
Reply-To:     Louie Crew <lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
From:         lcrew@ANDROMEDA.RUTGERS.EDU

Louie Crew is on sabbatical: 1991-92
Snail mail: Box 30, Newark, NJ 07101, 201-485-4503
a.k.a.: Li Min Hua, Br. Thorn-in-the-Flesh, Louise Clay
a.k.a.: William Werc, H.M.H.Q. Lutibelle
|: -----------------------------------------------------|
Subject: E-Directory of American Poets

I am compiling an "E-Directory of American Poets."  You are eligible
to be listed if you have published poetry in at least 6 different venues.

All persons who enter supply their data will be sent updates of the E-
Directory.  It will also be available to grants organizations and other
sponsors, including those who wants to announce projects of interest
to those listed.

Reply by e-mail only:  lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu or from
CompuServe 73517,147.   Most entries will appear precisely as you
supply them.  Edit carefully.

(I prefer the first, which I access daily.  I read the second only about
once a fortnight.  Do NOT send by snail mail.)

Please share this announcement with any poets who might be
interested and with any other e-networks where poets might gather.

Thank you.

Louie Crew
Academic Foundations Department
Rutgers University, Newark, NJ 07102
(During 1991-92 sabbatical:   P. O. Box 30, Newark, NJ 07101)
============================================================================
                Entry Form for E-Directory of American Poets
Name:

Institutional affiliation (optional):
       Department:
       Position:
E-mail address(es):
Snail mail:
Phone(s)
FAX:

Details of your work in six different venues (Max. 12 lines for all):



Details of public performances of your poetry: (Max. 6 lines)



One of your poems (Max. 16 lines):

===end of form==
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 06:43:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Time wasted on e-mail (11)

Date:          Fri, 10 Apr 1992 06:13:36 EDT
From:          BITNET%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET"  Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:    <1992Apr10.061336.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:       Time wasted on e-mail (11)
Reply-to:      BITNET%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET"  Robert Royar
Organization:  Department of English, New York Institute of Technology

My own 4am-6:30am e-mail time is often looked at ascance by the local fogey
faction.  Although, I doubt I could do much else intellectually that early in
the morning.  Reading articles would put me to sleep.  Grading papers, my
handwriting would be illegible.  I find early morning e-mail stimulates my
imagination--gets me pondering themes for the day.  (Isn't that like the Conky
Robot on Pee-Wee's Playhouse?)

Many of my colleagues have time to write papers about topics they never get
to teach, but just "can't find the time" to "waste" on e-mail to discuss the
issues we're trying to hash out about our own teaching.  I'm talking about
local e-mail here; we've no national connections at NYIT yet.

It's damned difficult getting people really engaged with e-mail.  In fact this
gives me a TGIF idea.  On the Frank Zappa list a thread emerged this week
asking how the members hook others on Zappa's music. That question seems
appropo here:

  TGIF: Explain how you've hooked another person on e-mail.  Tell a
        story/ies about an interesting persuasive technique or about a
        major conversion/failure, or

        Tell about how you were converted to e-mail and why.  Was
        there a mentor who helped you along?  Did you eventually
        surpass the mentor in e-mail expertise, or did he/she keep
        right along? How did e-mail grow into your life so that it now
        rivals the Michiganer 40-acre fungus?

*************************************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sun, 5 Apr 1992 16:02:15 CDT
From:         "Paula W. Sunderman" <pws1@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Request for assistance

A colleague of mine who is not on the MBU-L list has contacted me for
assistance.  I suggested that I post his request to the MBU-L list.
Would you please respond to him--Rod Kessler--at the following
address:  RKessler@RCN.MASS.EDU.

Here is the posting:

   We at Salem State are trying to define the goals of a basic
writing course, one that enables heretofore unready students to
enter the usual Comp. I and Comp. II sequence.  We'd like to ssee
any formal statement of goals--perhaps to use as our own.

Thanks for responding to him.  Sorry about the typo.

Paula Sunderman
pws1@ra.msstate.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:42:52 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Singing on the periphery

 *** Reply to note of 04/07/92 12:51
 Fred's last entry made me nostalgic for my old Kaypro II, its square utilitari
 an gray case and no nonsense construction, its lowtech look. It always made me
 feel like some sort of resistance fighter sitting in a dimly-lit room with a
 cobbled-together shortwave radio stirring up a peasant revolt.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Director of Composition
 ___Arizona State University
 ___(602) 965-3853
 ___BITNET: IACDES@ASUACAD
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Samford University Writing Programs
X-Acknowledge-To: <DHROBERT@SAMFORD>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 09:56:46 CDT
From:         "David H. Roberts" <DHROBERT@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: MAIL-MEN
              16 Apr 1992 09:56:02 -0400 from <R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU>

I have just reviewed a 2-week old listserv list and found NO men's issues
lists.

dave roberts <dhrobert@samford>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU