From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.romance
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Followup-To: alt.romance
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:22:33
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
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In-reply-to: dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu's message of 1 Oct 1992 16:14:57 GMT

*NOTE FOLLOWUP TO ALT.ROMANCE*

In article <1af861INN53o@uwm.edu> dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) writes:

    I believe that Eliot Shimoff has offered sage advice to David and
    placed the possibility of David and his Jewish woman-friend marrying
    in the context of the history of the Jewish people.

    I believe the suggestion that each person date others for six months
    is also wise though I advocate an even longer period of seriously
    dating alternative persons.  Clearly neither David nor his friend
    appear to have considered the long-term consequences of their
    relationship.

    Beyond rational issues, however, there is the issue of (romantic) love.
    Dave and his friend need to seriously explore relationships with other
    persons.  Dave with non-Jews and his friend, of course, with Jews. 

I must say that I find it disturbing when religion is used to keep
people apart.  I think it's even worse when it's used to keep people
other than the individual practitioner(s) apart.  Not that I'm going to
convince anyone here, but hopefully I'll convince the original poster
not to give up on the relationship over this issue.

Observant Jews, and even many non-observant Jews, tend to be very
strongly opposed to intermarriage for reasons that others have
expressed.  While I can understand those concerns somewhat (to the
extent that I can at all, given that I believe that the circumstances of
one's birth should not control one's future freedom of action), I think
that they're misplaced.  People have to decide for themselves whether
they care more about their background than about a relationship, and
that choice should be free rather than forced or coerced (counting guilt
tripping as coercion).  But my views most definitely do not represent
those of traditional Judaism.

    I believe that they should each seriously spend a year exploring such
    alternatives.  In particular, following the advice of Susan Page, author of
    "If I'm So Wonderful, Why Am I Still Single?"  [Bantam Books, $4.95] each 
    should:

This belongs more on alt.romance than on scj.  I've set the followup
there (interested scj people can followup here manually).

    1.  Desire love.
    2.  Believe that one can find a new love.
    3.  Make a master plan for increasing the flow of eligible people through 
	one's life.
    4.  Continue dating even though some dates are "duds."
    5.  GO FOR VOLUME.  Schedule as many two hour dates as possible in public
	places.  Talk to these dates; try to discover the other's values.  Try
	to anticipate the long-term consequences of a relationship.
	Carefully consider future in-laws.  Marriage results in not only a
	spouse, but a new set of family members.

Gaah.  Not everyone is good at fast context switching.  Some people are
more tightly focused, or more shy, or otherwise not good at handling
lots of people in their lives.  I know that I'd rather date one woman
many times than many women once.  It's the way I work.

As for the future in-laws issue, maybe it is and maybe it isn't sage
advice.  It's something I find disturbing, though.  Ideally (IMHO) the
marriage should be between the people involved, without carrying in
family baggage.

    6.  Be prepared to say "no," and move on when the relationship does not
	have much of a future.
    7.  Don't limit oneself to people of a certain "type."

...including ancestry

    And finally, put aside how people look and how much money they or their
    parents have. I know this is a tough one, but if one can do this than one
    will discover many people one can potentially love and, with God's help,
    have a joyous marriage.
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