From: AXM128@psuvm.psu.edu (ARIJIT MAHALANABIS)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: Why is SCIA needed ? (Re: An Indian-American Legislator
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:16:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92105.161600AXM128
 <92102.213528AXM128@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Apr14.154631.24204@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: HAM - Hackers Against MUDs
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In article <1992Apr14.154631.24204@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com
(alok.vijayvargia) says:

>In article <92102.213528AXM128@psuvm.psu.edu>, AXM128@psuvm.psu.edu (ARIJIT
>MAHALANABIS) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr10.221023.20963@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>,
>alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com
>> (alok.vijayvargia) says:
>>
>> >In article <92101.111615AXM128@psuvm.psu.edu>, ARIJIT MAHALANABIS
>> ><AXM128@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>
>> I don't think this is true. African Americans especially like to project
>> themselves as quite different from mainstream America. Although Asian
>Americans
>> are a lot more integrated in this respect, they still are far from
>mainstream
>> America. I wonder if you could cite any info. that would contradict this. I
>> have my doubts.
>>

>Look at the represention from african-americans in political arena.
>Look at the representation of asian-americans in media, business etc.

I cannot agree that representation in business is a measure of social
acceptance. Then we Indians are very much a part of American mainstream
thanks to the Gujrati communities. As for African American representation
in government, they generally hold positions where they are able to
receive the support of African Americans when it comes to elections
(ie. congressional districts with a large African American population,
or positions as mayors of large cities which usually have large numbers
of African Americans. I think movies like "Do the Right Thing" and "Boyz
in the Hood" make it amply clear that Blacks are NOT mainstream America.
Further, if indeed African Americans are so well integrated into society
why is there such a need for programs such as Head Start and Affirmative
Action. Believe you me they are not well-integrated into society. As for
Asian Americans, I think the general impression is that they are very
intelligent. But as far as being integrated, I don't think they are.

>> If this argument were forwarded by anyone else, I would tend to agree with
>> them. But Alok, just days ago you were condemning your own roots. It is IMHO
>                                         ^^^^^^^^^^
>Condemning is the wrong word. I said, I am questioning them.
>Questioning is NOT condemning.

And as I pointed out before questioning is vastly different from being
ashamed of them. But you deny you said this as well. I suggest you look
up the article of concern.

>> hypocritical to say that we can advance ourselves by projecting our roots
>> positively and then saying that you are ashamed of your roots. Which one is

>Once again, a misleading statement. I said I am ashamed of the human rights
>violations happening in India, not of my roots.

First of all, if I misrepresented your views, why in the world didn't you
respond to my earlier posting when I had rebuked you about this? Going
back on your words now doesn't help any. What you said was crystal clear
to me.

>> your true view Alok? Perhaps you are one of the confused individuals :-).

>Perhaps it is you :-) Perhaps we all are :-)

I assure you, Alok, there is very little that I am confused about. As for
all of us, I think some of us are more confused than others (HINT, HINT).

>> I was under the impression that this is why SCIA was formed.
>And that indeed is the primary reason why it was formed.

>> But more and more
>> I'm convinced it was formed more to protect you from the barbs of those who
>> would refute you.
>If you like to believe that, you are entitled to.
>But it is the view of those who are trying to destroy this group.

Why is it that anyone who expresses this view is out to get you and to
destroy the group?? With the exception of Deputy Sid Nag, I don't think
one other poster has construed this view point as anti-SCIA. I am all for
a forum for IA's, I really am. But I guess anyone who disagrees with the
ALLMIGHTY ALOK is against SCIA. 'L'etat c'est moi', eh Alok?

>> If it was really your intention to turn SCIA into a group
>> for those with problems or solutions to living in America you would have
>just
>> kept quiet and let them flame away. But you keep exacerbating the situation.

>It is possible that I have gotten dragged into the recent flames, however
>to conclude on this basis what my intentions were is ridiculous.

A personal impression on my part, I suppose.

>> Not all is good in Indian heritage indeed. But what gets me is people like
>> you being ashamed of India. Not everything is well in America as you point
>            ^^^^^^^
>Once again you are misleading. What I said is that I have felt (lately)
>ashamed of human rights violations in INdia.

It is unfair to comment on India's human rights record without actually
being in the shoes of the Indian police. I will admit that some of the
crimes are heinous. But India is a leader amongst 3rd world and
developing nations in democracy and in giving people power to run their
country. I wonder how the Indian police compare to Cuba's police or even
the 'freedom fighting' Contras whom the US vehemently supported. Where is
human rights then? But to people like you anything the west says is
gospel.

>> out correctly. But I have yet to find one single American who is ashamed of
>> his country.
>>
>There are many I have met. They cite specific issues though. Many Americans
>were ashamed of the actions taken in the Gulf last year.

>Likewise I find the handling of Punjab and Kashmir problems in INdia
>is something one ought to be ashamed of. Just think about how many innocent
>citizens have died there.

Well, I have not met anyone from this country ashamed in the least about
the US role in the Gulf War. They may disagree with Bush and his policies
but they do not feel any shame. As for Punjab and Kashmir, just think
how many innocents would have died had it NOT been for the Indian army.
But I suppose we SHOULD agree to Khalistan and donate Kashmir to
Pakistan, eh Mr. Vijayvargia? Punjab and Kashmir are war-zones. We are
basically fighting civil war in these areas. How can we talk about human
rights at war time? How many Amnesty International reports were released
about Vietnamese women who were victims of rape by American soldiers
during the Vietnam War? Oh but our boys can do no wrong, can they Mr.
Vijayvargia? But all of this is far from the matter at hand. The fact is
we cannot be ashamed of India or Indian POLICIES without first hand
knowledge of what is transpiring there.

>I don't believe that it alone can solve all the problems. I never said that.

Agreed.

>> But it could have been an invaluable tool for many people.

>Well it still is.

Hardly. Anyone who says SCIA is an invaluable tool, (a tool of any sort
for that matter) is either blind or ignorant or both.

>> It's too bad that you saw it fit to act in an unethical and immoral manner.

>????????

Didn't mean to dumbfound the ALMIGHTY!
There has been overwhelming evidence provided OVER AND OVER AND OVER that
you conducted an unethical vote in forming this group. Face the facts!
Stop hiding in your shell. I wanted SCIA to succeed. Check your voting
records. From the beginning I was a staunch believer in the usefulness of
SCIA. Hopefully a more ethical vote will succeed and then we can get down
to some real business.

>Listen, you are now playing into the hands of those who don't want to see this
>group develop. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT I MAY HAVE DONE THAT TOO RECENTLY.

You know what your problem is? You think you know what everbody's problem
is!! The opinions I am voicing are purely mine. I'm thoroughly outraged
by your conduct since the insidious inception of this newsgroup. As it
happens, I agree with Harpal, George, Trina and Venu about your conduct.
I don't agree with them in regard to the necessity of this group. I think
the networthy posts by people like Purna, Milind and others have shown
that there is a necessity for this group. But all of these posts are lost
in your constant bickering with the above parties. I realize that my
posts are no better in this regard. And as a result, I will not pursue
any further flames on SCIA. If you have quarrels or problems, send me
mail.

Arijit "Have had it up to my ears with Flames" Mahalanabis.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american