HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: henning@acsu.buffalo.edu (Karl inflexible Henning)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:54:46 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

Gary Merrill writes:

>I, for one, resent just the tiniest bit being told that I must become a
>patron to artists over whose selection or direction I have no control.
>I cannot delude myself into thinking that "the people" or our "national
>culture" would be better off for my contribution to such a pork barrel.

Just for fun ... for "artists", above, substitute "dubious
space-oriented weapons research", and "national security" for
"national culture".  There;  feel better?  I'm sure /I/ do ....

Maybe the arts-endowment mechanism needs some overhaul;  but
the arts are meted peanuts in the big scheme of things (good
or ill).  Let's acknowledge the true sources of serious
patron-resentment here [acknowledged:  that you did say
"the tiniest bit" ....]

Think how many photographs of crucifixes in apple juice
coulda been paid for by /one/ of those stealth bombers ... :-)

>Just sign me "a denizen of the political right".

"Hey ... only if you wanted to anyway"
	-- Steve "aliens switched my brain" Dallas

kph
-- 
    In the force if Yoda's so strong,   []	 Karl Prescott Henning
    construct a sentence with words in  []  128 Hewitt/upper [] 57 Glasgow st
    the proper order then why can't he? []  Bflo NY 14215    [] Roch NY 14608
From: vance@speech.sri.com (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Keywords: My knee is jerking wildly.  Lay off with that rubber hammer!
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:04:35 GMT
	<1992Apr8.221929.21158@scubed.com>
Organization: Speech recognition group, SRI
In-reply-to: hap@scubed.com's message of 8 Apr 92 22:19:29 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.221929.21158@scubed.com> hap@scubed.com (Hap Freiberg) writes:

   The basic problem, of course, is that the U.S. has no national
   culture.

Why would we *want* a national culture?  We're talking about a country
of 250 million people, spread over thousands of miles, of wildly
varying ethnic, cultural, and even linguistic background.

   Culture has always been the province of either the wealthy or the weird.

Like Stephen Wilcox, you must be operating under a strange definition
of culture.  True, there have often been elite cultural forms
primarily for the wealthy (live opera today is one, at least in San
Francisco), but that doesn't make other forms somehow nonculture.

   The denizens of the political right have always been
   suspicious of culture (because so much of it is foreign? Or that the
   "cultured" tend to be a bit "different"?) and under the banner of "let
   the market decide" have managed to quash any hints of a national subsidy.

How about the way someone like Pete Faust uses the notion of a
"national culture" (in the Holocaust thread that recently brightened
our day here on r.m.c)?  Makes me glad "we" don't have one for the
right-wingers to use as evidence of the greatness of the Fatherland.

   As to the idea that the arts will remain the preserve of the middle classes
   and the well-off, I think you're being optimistic [...]

Huh?  You like it that way?  I hope I'm misreading you.

	Vance
From: aldrich@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Dunbar Aldrich-Moodie)
Subject: Re: Shostakovich's Opera "The Nose"
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 16:20:58 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.014753.11703@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> w39y@vax5.cit.cornell
.edu (Mark Ryan) writes:
>
>Have any recordings in the west ever been done of [Shostakovitch's Nose]?  My
>university's music library has a "DEMONSTRATION DISK--NOT FOR RESALE" 
>on hand which seems to be a joint Columbia-Melodiya recording of 
>Gennady Rodzevetsky's (excuse awful spelling--don't have it here) 
>revival in Moscow in  the mid 70's, but there are no recordings 
>listed in any catalog I can find.

This recording is available on Chant du Monde, #LDC 278998/99, but only with
a libretto in French (though it's sung in Russian).

>Also any other suggestions on Shostakovich's music in the days before
>the "Chaos instead of Music" Pravda editorial.  I have Sym. 1-4, "Lady
>Macbeth of Mtsensk" and am looking for more stuff with his youthful
>exuberance, before the world came crashing down.

There are two other works which you absolutely *must* have from the pre-Stalin
editorial days (besides the two operas):

  1. Cello Sonata, op. 40
     This is a truly amazing piece.  Great recording just available on
     Monitor (#MCD 62021) with Rostropovitch and Shostakovitch playing.

  2. 24 Preludes, op. 34
     These rank with Chopin, Debussy and Rachmaninov's as truly inspired
     piano pieces.  Shostakovitch made a recording of them, but it's not
     available as of yet on CD.  Vladimir Viardo (Nonesuch 79234-2) is good.

Besides these two, you may want to try the 3 Fantastic Dances for piano (short,
aphoristic pieces), op. 5, the First Piano Trio, op. 8, the First Piano
Concerto (with obbligato trumpet), op. 35, and the First Piano Sonata, op. 12.

Of course, most of the best stuff is from the post "Chaos instead of Music"
days.  (Shostakovitch didn't write a single one of his 15 brilliant string
quartets until after his 5th symphony.)

Happy listening,

James
_______________
James Aldrich-Moodie
aldrich@leland.stanford.edu

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pdm@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu (peter d. mark)
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of Ralph Vaughn Williams?
Organization: /local/lib/rn/organization
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 04:46:13 GMT

In article <69389@ut-emx.uucp> amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu 
	(Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik) writes:
}
}Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis was what turned me on to RVW as
}well.  I remember it very clearly -- I was at an Austin Symphony
}concert, 'way up in the balcony, and when the Fantasia started I was
}on the edge of my seat for the whole seventeen minutes.
}

if you haven't already, you might enjoy checking out the original
work by tallis upon which rvw's fantasia is based.  it is available
on cd, but i don't have the reference handy.  i believe it is one
of the "english anthems."

peter
pdm@cs.uoregon.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: _The Love for Three Oranges_
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:21:53 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.162609.5565@Princeton.EDU>, roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
> In article <1992Apr13.151242.6003@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu>
>  dkmenser@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Kirk Menser) writes:
>>I have read that the march from Prokofiev's TLFTO was used as the
>>theme for a popular television series.  Does anyone know which
>>series?
> 
> The FBI, of course!  (On radio, too, I believe.)
> 
> TRIVIA: what other connection with "classical" music does that show
> have?  (Easy for some of us...)

Is it Efrem Zimbalist Jr., whose father (EZ Sr.) was a well-known
violinist - can't remember which orchestra he was with tho.

-- 
Deryk Barker
Computer Science Dept.
Camosun College,
Victoria, BC
Canada
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: re: Low trombones [Re: Oboe family]
From: phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:46:10 EDT
 <VANCE.92Apr13162047@kyoto.speech.sri.com> <1992Apr15.030342.4891@nmt.edu>
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Apr15.030342.4891@nmt.edu>, cem@nmt.edu (Confed. of Electronic Musicians) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr13.175020.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>>
>>   I seem to recall reference to a contrabass tbn in b-flat which
>>   would probably be playable down to below that A (my speculation).
>>   However, the slide would have to be VERY long, or crooked.
> 
> Actually, the slide is the same 'size' as a tenor trombone.  It is,
> however, doubled over.  Where the tenor trombone is two tubes joined
> at the bottom, the contrabass trombone is *four* tubes.
>                               /
>                              /|       /------------------------\
>             ----------------- |   |>--|----------------------\ |
>            / /-----------\   \|       |                      | |
>            | |           |    \       \----------------------/ |
>            | \-------------------------------------------------/
>            \-------------/
> 
> Damn, that's a *ugly* rendition!  Anyway...The slide section is like
> welding two tenor trombone slides together (both 'slides' move as one).
> At the left side of the picture is a loop of tubing that is a lot like
> an 'F' attachment with no trigger (ie it's *always* there)
> 
> Also, depending on the actual design of the slide, some models have an
> 8th and 9th position!  This is *good* because if I had to play one of
> these, I'd want as many alternate positions as possible.
> 
> Alan


In a quibbling mood, I offer this comment:
	The tube is not the same size, it is twice the size.  The slide is,
however, the same LENGTH (my original word was "long" but you said "size." 
Also, when I said, "long or crooked" I meant to include the possibility that
the slide was somehow doubled over on itself.  I did not think that it would
really be TWO slides, but then I did not have any idea how the necessary travel
between each position could be reduced to a manageable amount, which this
design obviously solves.

Peter Hoogenboom
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Oboe family (was Re: Cor Angl*)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 13:20:18 GMT

In article <ku4miqINN66i@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, drijbo@one-iron.Corp.Sun.COM (Jonathan Osser) writes:
> As for bass trombones, I've seen a variety of instruments labelled as
> bass (or contrabass) trombones so I'm not sure what range to compare with
> the voice.

The list of instruments at the beginning of my scores of the _Ring_
(which I presume to have been provided by Wagner himself) includes "4
ordinary tenor-bass trombones; 1 contrabass trombone". Trombonists can
(and presumably will) correct me, but I take the former to refer to
the orchestral trombone in modern use, whose range encompasses those
of the older tenor and bass trombones. The "contrabass trombone"
(which he uses sparingly) has a lower range (lower than any
non-Russian bass voice :-)), although not as low as the "contrabass
tuba" (Wagner's name for the modern "tuba", as distinguished from his
specially-invented "tenor" and "bass" tubas).

> (and while we're at it, if someone invented a viola da caccia, where
> would *it* fit in?)

Somehow, the idea of a "hunting viola" amuses me greatly.
	Robert
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: william sadler <wsadler@copper.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: American Composers
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 12:08:51 -0500

In <10298@inews.intel.com> nkulkarn@mipos2.intel.com writes:

>Hello. I would like some information on all American composers
>to-date (preferably in chronological order) and their compositions.

Look at the New Grove Dictionary of American Music.  It is in three
volumes and can be found in most music libraries and a few non-music
libraries.

For biographical information look at Slonimsky's Biographical Dictionary
of Composers (?).  But it isn't up to date.

Will
-- 
**********************************************************************
*Will Sadler		Indiana University Law School-Bloomington    *
*will@ogre.cica.indiana.edu	wsadler@copper.ucs.indiana.edu       *
**********************************************************************
From: hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Cor ANGLIAS or ANGL'E
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:28:47 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Apr12.154718.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr08.181239.14971@cs.cmu.edu>, hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar) writes:
>> In article <VANCE.92Apr7104122@kyoto.speech.sri.com> vance@speech.sri.com (Vance Maverick) writes:
>>>
>>>In article <CB.92Apr7110212@tamarack12.timbuk> cb@tamarack12.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>>>
>>>   I have a question, which may have been already answered by implication, but
>>>   I need it spelled out: how are oboe, English horn, and bassoon related?  Is
>>>
>>>The English horn is essentially a scaled-up oboe, but the bassoon is
>>>quite different in construction, fingering and even reed style.  The
>>>only ways I recall EH differing from OB are the angle in the reed
>>>tube and a sort of swelling at the bell.
>>>
>>>	Vance
>> 
>> Let's not forget that the EH is pitched a fifth lower than the oboe but is
>> lacking a fingered low Bb[the oboe's lowest note] and so only goes down to a
>> fingered B[that is to say the E below middle C].  
>> And the angle is the bocal that the reed is placed on, not the reed itself.
>
>only bassoon family instruments have a bocal.  Oboes and their relatives call it
>a "staple"
>-- Peter Hoogenboom

Sorry Peter, but you are wrong.  The English horn has a bocal, as does the
oboe d'amore and the bass oboe.  The staple [as I already explained] is the
metal tube that the cane is tied onto to make a reed.  The staple is then
placed on the bocal of these instruments in order to play.  The oboe's staple
has cork around the bottom and fits into the top of the oboe without a 
bocal.  Clear???
Harold
hsmoliar@db1.speech.cs.cmu.edu
From: robin@CALYPSO.BIH.HARVARD.EDU (Robin Colgrove)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: seeking recorder music
Date: 12 Apr 92 18:00:04 GMT

hi folks
anybody got any favorite Recorder Trio discs they want to recommend.
actually any good recorder recordings would be good but most want
small, pure recorder ensemble. email to me and I will summarize. thanx
robin
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: xye@gauss.cs.jhu.edu (Brian Ye)
Subject: FOR SALE: CDs
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University CS Department
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:39:35 GMT


I am asking for $8 each. Please add $1 to cover the postage (to the total
not each disc).
The discs are almost in mint condition.

Beethoven Piano Sonatas: Moonlight, Pathetique, and Appassionata
Ashkenazy/London (ADD)

Beethoven Symphony No. 6, Overtures to Egmont and Coriolan
Christopher Hogwood, The Academy of Ancient Music/L'Oisseau-Lyre (DDD)

Beethoven Symphony No. 3 "Eroica"
Christopher Hogwood, The Academy of Ancient Music/L'Oisseau-Lyre (DDD)

Mozart Overtures: Figaro, Don Giovanni, Magic Flute, Cosi fan tutte, and more.
Neville Marriner, Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields/EMI (DDD)

Bernstein 70: On the Town , On the Waterfront, Candide Overture, Excerpts from
	"West Side Story", Divertimento for Orchestra
Israel Philharmonic, Los Angeles Philharmonic, Bernstein/DG (DDD)

If interested, please send e-mail to xye@cs.jhu.edu



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Beethoven (this is not meant to be racist)
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 01:52:01 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.012842.1504@cs.rose-hulman.edu>
 stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) writes:
>     My father is a music teacher at a middle school in Indianapolis and  
>one of his colleagues told him something about Beethoven having black  
>relatives or ancestors (or something).  Is this true?  He wanted me to put  
>the question into rec.music.classical because a large amount of his other  
>questions have been answered here.  Could someone please relay the whole  
>story whether true or not to me???  I am kind of curious as to the answer  
>myself.  Again, this is not meant to be a racist question.

The modern "Beethoven was black" rumor seems to have been started by a
DJ at an Oakland radio station around 1970.  Certain pictures and
sculptures of Beethoven might lend themselves to such an interpretation
if we had no other evidence.

We do, of course.  Beethoven had somewhat swarthy skin (which was also
messed up by a case of smallpox) and fairly large facial features.  Of
course, so did millions of other Northern Europeans.  People referred to
Beethoven as "der Schwarze" on occasion, but this was not due to
anything ethnic; olive skin was really enough for that epithet to stick.

In the past, people with somewhat larger-than-life qualities (and faces)
have often been suspected of being "other".  Babe Ruth was rumored to be
black; his parents were German and Irish, respectively.  Curly hair,
dark(er than normal) skin, etc. are brought into play to "explain" the
prowess or otherwise different qualities of a celebrity.  

On the  other hand, there's the boogie-woogie variation in the second
movement of Op. 111... 8-)

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pdelafos@djulien.dsd.es.com (Peter Delafosse)
Subject: Re: Britten's Film Music (was "Britten")
Reply-To: pdelafos@djulien.dsd.es.com (Peter Delafosse)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 18:25:40 GMT

Bob Kosovsky writes:

> Peter Delafosse writes:
> >How DOES one become familiar with Britten's film music?
> 
> It ain't easy.  Britten claimed that virtually none of his film music was
> representative of his abilities so that he "disowned" it.  There have never
> been any recordings of his film music (except Young Persons Guide to the 
> Orchestra).
> 
> The situation is not hopeless,  however.  Many of Britten's "disowned" or
> otherwise rejected works are gradually finding their way into print and are
> being recorded.  No doubt, his film music will soon surface.

It will take some enterprising record company or conductor or both to do this,
and I agree it will probably happen soon.

The only company I know with a Britten series in progress is Collins Classics.
The series mixes familiar and unfamiliar Britten with the orchestral music
conducted by Steuart Bedford. The series also includes Britten's three string
quartets played by the Britten Quartet. The April Gramophone announces a new
issue in this series by The Sixteen.

Also, Virgin Classics has recorded some off-beat works: the opera "Paul Bunyan"
and the radio cantata "The Company of Heaven," both conducted by Philip Brunelle.

Peter DeLafosse
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: demg1171@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (David E. Mccracken)
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 05:46:11 GMT

ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer) writes:

>In article <1992Apr16.124723.3133@unx.sas.com> sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill) writes:
>>|> The Chicago Symphony wouldn't be able to go to the toilet between their
>>|> Mozart performances if they didn't get subsidized.  Grant, I am sure
>>
>>The content of your position is simply this:  If we didn't subsidize
>>symphonies, then there wouldn't be subsidized symphonies.  True, but
>>not particularly enlightening.

>Most people tend to think the Chicago Symphony is a good thing.

>jeff

The Chicago Symphony is a good thing for Chicago.  It defines what Chicago
is in the same way as the Sears Tower, the Art Institute, Al Capone,
and the Cubs.  When Rand McNally does its survey of the cities, or some
business decides on a city to locate its US headquarters, the "culture"
offered by the Symphony helps Chicago.  For these reasons it makes sense
for Chicago to support the Symphony, whether or not it really cares about
supporting the arts.

I have no idea how much support the Chicago Symphony gets from the
local government or from the national government.  I'm just saying
that whatever you think of the NEA, Chicago has a purely selfish
motive for funding the Symphony.

Buildings like an opera house or a symphony hall often are the
showcases of the city.  The Civic Center area of San Francisco
would be much worse without Davies Hall and the Opera House.
Its in the city's best interest to support these institutions.
If only San Francisco would put as much effort into keeping
the Giants.

David McCracken

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack12.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: American Composers
In-reply-to: nkulkarn@mipos2.intel.com's message of 9 Apr 92 00:52:15 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 10 Apr 92 10:45:25 CDT

>   I would like some information on all American composers
>   to-date (preferably in chronological order) and their compositions.

David Ewen did an encyclopedia of American composers about ten years ago
that's pretty good at just presenting a lot of information on many
composers.  He mainly assembles everything that's already publicly
available, such as old Times articles, prizes won, premiers, etc.  He
doesn't try to go deep, but it's still useful.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
GEnie: C.BREWSTER7
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Stravinsky and Prokofiev
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:53:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: uxa.1992Apr15.225314.24211
Organization: Educational Computing Network

For Stravinsky Rite Of Spring, I like Boulez/Cleveland.  I haven't heard
Igor's 61 version in a long time, but with Boulez, the rhythms are
powerful and entrancing, which is appropriate to ritual.  On CD it will
be ADD, but so what.

Jeff 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,comp.music
From: tribioli@arcetri.astro.it (Francesco Tribioli)
Subject: Re: Help, which instrument?
Organization: Osservatorio di Arcetri
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 07:59:31 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.031416.20786@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes:
|> 	Don't u believe tht somepeople have more musical potential
|> than others (due to natural talent and childhood exposure, I guess.) ?
|> 	Howard Gardner (Psychologist?) suggested 7 independent 
|> "intelligences", or talents:
|> 	1. logical-mathematical,
|> 	2. spatial,
|> 	3. linguistic,
|> 	4. bodily-kinesthetic (supposedly possessed by actors, athletes, 
|> 		and dancers, etc.)
|> 	5. insight into onself,
|> 	6. understanding of others,  and
|> 	7. MUSICAL.
|> 
|> 	What I mean was that--I lack musical intelligence.  (Mainly due to
|> lack of exposure, I guess.)  I think I'm high above average in 6 of them;
|> but, my MUSICAL intelligence must be far below average within the lowest 
|> percentile.  (I haven't failed any class yet because some of my teachers 
|> successfully petitioned the music teacher to pass me back in JHS.)
|> 	...hmmm, maybe I should start increasing exposure. Could be too late.
|> 	Oh, let me tune my redio from 1010Wins (News) to ....hmmm, what 
|> station?  How about Light 106 FM?  Well, I'm not really listening anyway.
|> 
|> ====================================>.sig <===================================
|>   Harry Xu  (KB2LHA)	   Internet:  hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
|>  *Columbia University Amateur Radio Club (CUARC-<>-W2AEE)  *Founded, 1913*
|>  *The American Radio Relay League:  Amateur Radio >>---> A National Resource
|>  *New York Road Runners Club  -&-  Columbia University Road Runners Club 
|>  ::::::"Go run.  Nothing else can make you feel as good as making love."  --ME
|> ====================================> end <===================================


Why do you want to play an instrument ?
Do you want to complete the range of your HIGH above average intelligences?
I don't think you should look at music (or life in general)  in this way.
Music in particular  should not be a study subject but a different 
way to express yourself, like a different way to speak. Study is necessary
to acquire the technical skill to manage your instrument in a way you
can speak with it. Music is not a race to gain the first place!! Music is ART.

Sorry for flames.

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