HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dpund@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Tantor (Dennis Pund))
Subject: Re: Battletech: Get it right
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:59:13 GMT

In <davis.724457774@cwis> davis@cwis.unomaha.edu (James J Davis) writes:

>hamilton_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:

>> When I started 'Battletech: the Great Debate', I was just trying to see what
>>people prefer, old tech, Lostech or Clan tech. Fortunatly that descution has
>>not strayed from its original intent.

>I was not around for this discussion, but would like to state that the playing
>of Lostech and Clan tech drove me away from the system.  If found that it was
>just making gamers feel good by giving them more and more powerful mechs, and
>I found the backgrounds for these technologies ill-concieved.  Further, the
>rules with these technologies are not slick any-more.  For example, old tech,
>there is not a single weapon that doesn't have it's merits (except the LRM-10,
>which seemed to be a mistake and can be fixed readily).  This is no longer the
>case when new technologies are added.  Further, the movement system for BT
>does not really work well with fast mechs.  And the old tech mechs are the
>slowest of them all, making them play best within the system given.  All in
>all, I liked old-tech, and quit playing Battletech all-together when local
>gamers decided 'Clan or bust!'  [Their loss.  The old tech mecha were a lot
>prettier to look at too...  :)]

>-james

I agree.  I finnally decided to put my two cents worth in.  I entered Btech
just as the clan stuff was put out.  My first reaction was to design inner-
sphere mechs to pound on the clans.  I found that playing the old mechs and
roleplaying in the old political system was much more fulfilling.  I maybe
the new kid on the block and I have a munchkin streak in me every once in a
will but I can say one thing, I DON"T LIKE THE CLAN'S.  THey kill the heart
an soul of BTECH, to over heat agien.  My favorite mech to use when forced
to play 3050 is a mech of my own design, the Brimstone. You ever see a clan
mech explode from a core meltdown...:)...wonderful feeling....



					-Tantor
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: ara@wam.umd.edu (Ford Prefect)
Subject: Machine Guns in BTECH
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:32:56 GMT

Hello all from Hirohito's Kamakazi Marauders!!!

This ones directed at all you guys and gals that actualy understand
all the rules and regs and such trivial stuff.

Whats the deal with Machine Guns, ( Yes the weapon people like to hate ) 
why do they fire 1 round a turn :( Seems to me we could get a lot more
use out of these Magnificent weapons if they fired bursts of 10 to even
50 rounds a turn.  The prime example being the VULCAN cannon on the 
Modern day A10 which can rip a tank to shreads.  Im shure if we transplanted
that thing into BTECH it would be a Machine gun, and it would be deadly
at short range,  Imagin a light mech with 6 of the suckers doing
50 pts each, HA HA HA HA HA, spread out in chunks of 10 across the mech
like LRMs only better.  Turn any opponent into swiss cheese mech in
an instant. assuming they let you get close enough.
If we are going to discuss balistics and realistic artilery ranges
why not get machine guns into the action.
also think about this!!!! 6 machine guns, at 200 rounds each
thats 1200 rounds, thats a lot of ammo when you explode due to heat >:>
mu ha ha ha ha ha.  Were machine gun rounds 2 pts each?

Hasta la mecha pendejos!

As Gonzalo Yakimakisushi Jefferson (one of my Pilots) used to say:
"How come we dont install DUMP ALL AMMO buttons on these cans?"
From: dhiga@aludra.usc.edu (Darold Higa)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Mekton II mecha
Date: 12 Dec 1992 16:36:27 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec10.204801.323@crash> malloy@crash.cts.com (Sean Malloy) writes:
>>US
>>Air Superiority:  Birds of Prey (Eagle, Falcon)
>
>For that particular pair of planes, yes. But don't just look at the modern
>aircraft in service; look at the names planes were given in the past: F-4
>Phantom II, F-86 Sabre, F-100 Super Sabre, F-101 Voodoo, F-104 Starfighter,
>and so on. You're picking an awfully small sample to generalize from.
>
>>Ground attack: ugly beasts (Aardvark, Warthog...unofficial but loved)
>
>These are nicknames given by the pilots and ground crews; if you look at
>other attack aircraft -- A-6 Intruder, A-7 Corsair II, and so on -- you'll
>see that there isn't any standard naming convention.

I agree.  There aren't any standardized naming conventions.  A lot has to do 
with the procurement and R+D process for a particular system.  The post I was
responding to wanted a couple of "rules of thumb" for naming conventions.
There have been several periods where names have unofficially conformed to
a convention.  They are by no means formal.  This has happened for certain
"series" of weapons sytems, such as the F-15/F-16 series.  On your comment 
about ground attack aircraft is also entirely right.  I should have been
careful to mention that they were Air Force ground attack aircraft.

However, this is not to say that there is no method to the madness of naming
weapons systems.  Tkae this sequence, for example:

F-102A "Delta Dagger"
F-106  "Delta Dart"
A-1 "Skyraider"
A-3 "Skywarrior"
F-105 "Thunderchief"
F-84G "Thunderjet"
F-84F "Thunderstreak"
RF-84F "Thunderflash"

I had mearly meant to give a generalized and non-detailed example of some well
known naming conventions.  Conventions are just that, general rules of thumb, 
but nothing hardened fast.  Sorry!   |)

Darold "Godai" Higa of Ikkoku-kan
(who is getting sick of studying Chinese weapon systems...yawn...when will the
semester end?)
From: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Who did it
Date: 16 Dec 1992 04:19:06 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
Reply-To: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <1992Dec15.163029.6983@gw.wmich.edu>, 997vanderkol@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>In article <BzBHtz.JCL@newsflash.concordia.ca>, kgnome@cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane) writes:
>> From: 997vanderkol@gw.wmich.edu

  The Saga Continues of "Who Killed Melissa Steiner?"

>>>book they determined that Ryan Steiner would not have done it because it
>>>would have been so obviuos, and with his losses to the Clans he would be easy
>>>pickings for any of Victor's economic sanctions or the like. My personal
>>>canidate for the assasination is his sister, Katherine. She has been
>>>portraying herself like her Grandmother & been smooshing public support as
>>>regent in Tharkad.
>> 	Bingo.
>> 	Steph

  "Say it ain't so, Joe!" :(

 Now Sun-Tzu has competition for most HATED person in the Inner Sphere
                                 (Clanners not included :)
 I thought matricide/patricide was a Kuritan tradition, guess I was wrong :)

 Didn't Hanse die conviently of a heart attack? The plot thickens......

>	It's so nice when your right. :) 
> BTW does anyone have a listing of factory sites for the old Terran Hegemony
>factories that were razed in the various wars?
>John VanDerKolk

  I'll check I think I have a listing somewhere, try the Star League sourcebook
and the Objective Raids as they are the best sources. The TRs (Technical
Readouts) are too inaccurate to depend on especially the TR 3025! Kuritan
Capellan Hussars indeed!
 
This has been....
 Tony Taia                                    (Chu-sa of the Second Genyosha)
 TAIA_A@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz  **Join the DCMS see the Inner Sphere and kill it**
3055-3067: So little time, so many Clan meks to kill! :)
**Noone knows what I know, so you know that what I know is only mine to know**
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: morrisa@cs.UAlberta.CA (ANDREW Morris)
Subject: Re: Suggestions...
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:24:46 GMT

m91kgh@tdb.uu.se (Karl-Gunnar Hultland) writes:

>:  
>:     ]['d suggest you try designing some of your own mechs.  That's
>:  always been one of the things I've most enjoyed with BattleTech.
>: 


>New player in my group:
>What do you mean??? Can't I get a mech with 2 AC20 and 3 Gauss rifles :(

>All people enjoy building their own mechs :) some of them tend to
>wanting more than the rules allow :)

>				Karl

Exactly why I wouldn't allow it.  What was happening was the players were
making 100 ton mechs with jump jets and 4 AC/20s.  Armor to the nuts.  
Every turn was the same.
1) BLAM, BLAM, BLAM, BLAM.
2) Kick.
3) Punch (Possible - The old Victor could do it...)

Every now and again you'd get a 100 ton death from above, but otherwise
it was who ever was lucky enough to get the first head shot.  Boring.

So I took that away and the game got interesting....
>-- 

>Karl-Gunnar Hultland              Vox Dei, Vox Populi
>m91kgh@bellatrix.tdb.uu.se
--
============================================================================
 "Life's a Bitch and then you fly..."     "Let's get dangerous!"  - D. Duck

      Andrew Morris (The Android)     E-Mail : morrisa@cs.ualberta.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: cs011103@cs.brown.edu (Christopher Randall)
Subject: Re: original mecha games
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 12:25:36 GMT

on the subject of conversions - can btech be readily converted to/from fasa's renegade
legion?		

crash
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Probably Useless, but...
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:18:56 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

sjb5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (STACY JOHN BEHRENS) writes:

>In article <BzHqps.Ksv@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, griffin@sage.cc.purdue.edu (The Cr
>ystal Griffin) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec18.203322.28248@Virginia.EDU> glr8c@Virginia.EDU ("Gregory L
>awrence Romano") writes:

>There is one big problem with taking on a bunch of light mechs with medium
>lasers.  Even though individually the weapons aren't all that powerful, 9
>medium lasers does a lot of damage.  Furthermore given the range of the
>weapon, (and th lack of any on your mech) it is quite easy to fire all 9 in
>the same round at the same target.  Any well coordinated atttack would result
>in the untimely (or timely depending on your viewpoint) demise of your large
>mech.  Light mechs aren't all that winpy.

Don't forget to add in the fact that those Wasps can ditch the
other weaponry and add two more medium lasers. That raises the number against
him to 27. That's about 135 possible. 

Axly
From: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Call me Stupid.
Date: 16 Dec 1992 02:04:55 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
Reply-To: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <1992Dec15.093501.6978@gw.wmich.edu>, 997vanderkol@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>In article <1gjinqINNgjs@golem.wcc.govt.nz>, taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha) writes:

 The Question is asked "Who killed Melissa Steiner?"

>> Though WE (the readers) know that little Victor Steiner-Davion didn't do
>> it. All fingers point to Ryan Steiner as the evil mastermind.
>			   ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Oh enlightened one ( =) ), in the
>book they determined that Ryan Steiner would not have done it because it
>would have been so obviuos, and with his losses to the Clans he would be easy
>pickings for any of Victor's economic sanctions or the like. My personal
>canidate for the assasination is his sister, Katherine. She has been
>portraying herself like her Grandmother & been smooshing public support as
>regent in Tharkad.
>John VanDerKolk

 The Steiny-Davies are the Brady Bunch of the Inner Sphere and how can you
suggest that Katherine would do such a thing? That would make her worse than
Sun-Tzu Liao and EVERYBODY hates him.
 No I blame Ryan for it.

This has been....
 Tony Taia                                    (Sho-sa of the Second Genyosha)
  TAIA_A@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
3055-3067: So little time, so many Clan meks to kill! :)        `|'Disclaimer!
**Noone knows what I know, so you know that what I know is only mine to know**
From: 997vanderkol@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Call me Stupid.
Date: 15 Dec 92 09:35:01 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1gjinqINNgjs@golem.wcc.govt.nz>, taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha) writes:
>>From: <ECN101@psuvm.psu.edu>
>>Date: Tue Dec 15 09:06:15 NDT 1992
>>
>>Call me stupid, but can anyone tell me if they figured out who was
>>responsible for the assassination of Missy Steiner?
> 
>  [ First as this relates to events found in _Natural Selection_, the
>   Novel by Micheal Stackpole. There should be a *SPOILER ALERT* :) ]
> 
> ^L
> 
>  Though WE (the readers) know that little Victor Steiner-Davion didn't do
> it. All fingers point to Ryan Steiner as the evil mastermind.
			   ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Oh enlightened one ( =) ), in the
book they determined that Ryan Steiner would not have done it because it
would have been so obviuos, and with his losses to the Clans he would be easy
pickings for any of Victor's economic sanctions or the like. My personal
canidate for the assasination is his sister, Katherine. She has been
portraying herself like her Grandmother & been smooshing public support as
regent in Tharkad.
> 
>>I want to plan a campaign and having that info leaked (with the other
>>piece of news that Vic the Slick is holding his mommy's assassin [ and
>>training him ] ).
> 
>  Do what you want it's your campaign :)
> 
>> Also, is it just me or are the Clanner Scum acting more like Inner Sphere
>>warriors?
> 
>  Please note Clan are always SCUM or Slime etc. The IS are true warriors :)
> 
>>  I am not bashing BTech, but some of the characters are so dull.
>>Why can't we have more characters like Star Commander Joanna?
>>There's a babe who knows how to party.
> 
>  Though the Jade Phoenix trilogy rates IMAO to be the worst of all the
> Battletech novels, Joanna did prove to be an interesting character.
> But I noticed that she wasn't in the Jade Falcon Guards Cluster that
> died in the Gash on Twycross, according to the scenario book. Opps,
> FASA didn't research that too well, surprise, surprise :)
>  I didn't like anyone else in the entire trilogy and I have only read
> the 3 books only once. Compare that to the dozen times I have read
> _Heir to the Dragon_ and _Wolves on the Border_, I wonder why I read those
> so often? :) Anyone want to buy a trilogy about the Green Parrots? :)
> 
> 
> This has been....
>  Tony Taia                                    (Sho-sa of the Second Genyosha)
>   TAIA_A@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
> 3055-3067: So little time, so many Clan meks to kill! :)        `|'Disclaimer!
> **Noone knows what I know, so you know that what I know is only mine to know**

John VanDerKolk
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: dpund@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Tantor (Dennis Pund))
Subject: Re: C3 Network Questions......
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:58:03 GMT

	I have a question about the C3.  If you had an altered ECM package
that would decode the enemy C3 transmition frequency and transfers the info
to your onboard C3 or slave, Could you tap into the enemy C3 network and use
their sensors?

					-Tantor
From: nllopis@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.corewar
Subject: Re: Which corewars? Where???
Date: 17 Dec 92 11:09:26 GMT

> 
>> I am sure this has been asked a LOT here... but I think
>> I have to ask it again because I didn't find any clue on
>> that yet.
> 
>> What corewars is this group supposed to be on? Is it on the
>> PC corewars? On UNIX? What version ? Is there a standard?
>> Could somebody post the rules this corewars is lead by?
> 
>> Thanks.
> 
> 
>> 	Noel LLopis
> 
> 
> RTFFAQ!!  It was just posted, as you'll notice.
CNRTFFAQ!!!!!!!! It was not posted for over a couple weeks so I
had to ask for that. Then somebody did post it.
From: durham@cup.portal.com (Mark Allen Durham)
Newsgroups: rec.games.corewar
Subject: FAQ trouble
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 09:26:07 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

I have recently moved the FAQ to the FAQ-server at MIT so it can
be archived and cross-posted to news.answers as well as 
rec.games.corewar.  The FAQ should be automatically posted every
30 days, but I can force it whenever I see fit to do so.
Alternatively, it should be available in news.answers or at
pit-manager.mit.edu in games/corewar-faq.  There is a mail server,
appropriately named mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu which can
retrieve the faq for those without ftp.

I encourage everyone to return to the friendly tone that we used
to have here at rec.games.corewar up until a few months ago.  Finals
and the holiday season must be putting much stress on everyone.
Relax!

I used to send the FAQ to everyone who requested it, but can no longer
do so because of the financial strain.  It also costs me to post
the FAQ more frequently (even though it is on the server) because I
end up downloading more frequently.

I recently lost 3/4 of my income due to insufficient enrollment
(I teach part-time) and may not be able to continue to support the
FAQ or The Core War Newsletter.  Persons interested in taking over
these duties should contact me at the address below.  Thanks.

Mark A. Durham
durham@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.corewar
From: t-jcisek@microsoft.com (Julius Cisek)
Subject: So long fellow Core Warriors...
Date: 15 Dec 92 07:33:05 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation


My internship at Microsoft Corp. has come to an end and therefore I
will no longer have this e-mail account.  If I get an account at my school
I will post here with my new address.

Until then, I wish all of you the best.  I had a wild time and learned quite
a bit about the corewar sub-culture.

I only wish I had more time in the last few months to whip your butts... :)

							Jules

P.S.  Special thanks to Andy Pierce, Scott Nelson, Nandor Sieben (sp?),
	and of course Stefan Strack.  I learned a lot from you guys...

-- 
Julius Andrew Cisek                ,_,
t-jcisek@microsoft.com   "Joy!"   /oo \  _.-.   "Quiet, you bloated
One Microsoft Way     //          <>__| /- O O       idiot!"
Redmond, WA 98052   \X/           |  U|    \|
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:02:54 EST
From: Jeff Raven <JAR129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.corewar
Subject: Re: ICSW Standards Operands Question


In article <Dec.12.15.00.59.1992.1713@foghat.rutgers.edu>,
morrow@foghat.rutgers.edu (John Morrow) says:

>I found the following sort of code in some of the examples I was
>looking at (the following is a fragment from "vampire.cw") and was
>wondering if the operand "#(spin-bite)" on the line labeled "start"
>was allowed under ICSW-88 standards.  If so, then what are the
>rules governing mathamatical operations within operands, ESPECIALLY
>where it concerns immediate addressing.  This strikes me as being
>a bit "high level" compared to the way the rest of things are done.

>>nprc   dat 500
>>spin   spl 0
>>       djz 2 nprc
>>fang   jmp @1
>>bite   dat 1000
>>start  mov #(spin-bite) @bite
>            ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well, there're two ways of answering this question, depending on what
you think that code actually does -

1. Moves the difference between the fields of 'spin' and 'bite' to the
location pointed at by 'bite'.

2. Moves the difference between the core addresses of 'spin' and 'bite'
to the location pointed at by 'bite'.

So, in case one, this amounts to MOV #(0 - 1000), @bite - a rather
complicated instruction for a simple assembly language like Redcode.
Furthermore, since the fields of 'spin' and 'bite' change as the program
executes, this command can't be simplified during assembly.

Case two, on the other hand, boils down to MOV #((-4) - (-1)), @bite
- or simply MOV #-3, @bite. This is simple. Furthermore, since 'bite'
and 'spin' always have the same relative addresses, their difference
will always be -3, and the command can therefore be simplified during
assembly.

So, what do we have? Case one - a rather complicated sort of command,
which will, after assembly, remain a rather complicated command. Then
we have case two - a less comlicated command, which after assembly
yields a fairly simple instruction.

Which is right? Case two. Here's why - whenever a label appears in the
field of an instruction, it is always interpreted as the *address* of
the line the label appears on. Because of this, and since the addresses
of each label can be determined during assembly, it is always possible
to simplify any such equation. As a result, the actual code that is
sent to the MARS doesn't have any equations at all - each has been
reduced to the form '??? value, value'.

Is that any help?

Jeff Raven
jar129@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.corewar
From: pk6811s@acad.drake.edu
Subject: Magic Numbers & Killing Imps
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 19:52:37 GMT

There are magic numbers and then there are magic numbers.  The only
characteristic that the posted 'magic' numbers have is the ability
to reduce large free-space gaps to small chunks efficiently.  This
is a useful function, but there are other features that may be
desirable.

Let's say your program is 12 lines long, and you can't
stand to drop one of your own bombs on yourself; either you check
before bombing, or you look for a bombing increment that reduces
free-space gaps rapidly to 12's, then cuts them all in half.  Of
course you position your program in the last such space, and
enter your core-clear just before the bomb hits.

Or maybe you can stand a single bomb on line 5 of the code.  Then
you want an increment that reduces free-space to 7's, allowing
one bomb on line 5, then continue bombing until just before 
another line is bombed.

Now let's talk about killing imps.  We know if we bomb with an
increment of 2667 we can run down imps from behind - given enough
time.  But there are other numbers that also work, like 889.  In fact
there are a host of numbers that run down imps, if they are moving
slowly enough.  Since the top imp-programs use a stone component
that gobbles up most of the cycles, the imp-rings themselves are moving
very slowly.  What you want is an increment that shortly after
bombing location N, also bombs location N+2667.  Of course,
if you kill the stone component, the imps will run faster and
you may not catch them.

Then again, if you are dropping stun-bombs you increase your chances
greatly.  If you stun the stone, or happen to catch the tail of 
the imp, the imp-rings will slow to a crawl, maybe give a twitch
every thousand cycles or so, allowing time to drop lots of
bombs before returning to N+2667.  Here's a little basic program
to find increments that eventually get around to N+2667:

FOR I=11 TO 4000
    FOR J=0 TO 50
       K=(J*8000)+2667
       IF K MOD I = 0 THEN PRINT I,K/I
       NEXT J
    NEXT I

You'll need to use double-word integers to hold K.  The number K/I
tells how many bombs you'll drop between N and N+2667.

Other numbers that could be explored are N+5334, N-2667, and N-5334.

Note that to use this strategy, you will have to bomb/scan for a
-very- long time, to make sure all the MOV 0,2667 instructions are
hit. Can't afford to miss one!

         * * * * * * Merry Christmas to All * * * * * *

Paul Kline
pk6811s@acad.drake.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.corewar
From: Ben Burch <Burch_Ben@wes.mot.com>
Subject: Magic Numbers?
Organization: Motorola, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 10:35:07 GMT
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A75365B8C403B081@129.176.188.129.in-addr.arpa>
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-Xxdate: Tue, 15 Dec 92 04:36:40 GMT

Hello!  I have seen a bit of discussion about "Magic Numbers" which
are used to insure that one doesn't trash one's own code when
bombing.  The archive don't appear to contain the posting which had
those.  Would somebody care to re-iterate this for me?  Thanks!

-Ben Burch