From: d8andjo@dtek.chalmers.se (Johan Andersson)
Subject: Re: APPS: MUDS and sci.virtual-worlds
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 17:02:55 GMT



In article <1992Sep24.153204.24045@u.washington.edu>
smpand06@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (A J Simpson) writes:

>   agri@pa.itd.com (/usr/spool/mail/agri) writes:
>   >Greetings.
>
>   >I've only recently subscribed to this group.  I've come across a few
>   >conversations concerning MUDS in general.  However generally they seem
>   >to be discounted.

Even though many great pieces of software has its roots in computer
games, references to games most often guarantees that the 'serious
scientist' will discount you, and worse, the potential economic
supporter will ignore you.

>   >  I'm also sure that many people who become interested in
>   >these MUDS, end up discouraged after reading the rec.games.mud.*
>   >newsgroups due to the extremely high noise ratio there.

The 'problem' is that there are a lot of users in those groups, people
that will hardly ever think about how the MUD is implemented or
designed, only how well it fits their specific needs. Ever noticed the
lack of that category in this group?

>   Firstly, we need a Space Orientate MU* concept. Objects must have size,
>   and position in a room must be calculated. Also, other attributes, like
>   soft/hard, etc need to be calculated in.

Simply put, we need a more detailed simulation. With MUDs being
frowned upon and only allowed to run with limited resources on old
machines, the chances for such extensions, in theory trivial, will be
postponed until old machines have the power of tomorrows.

>   Then there is the question of
>   whether we actually want graphics and sound or not.

Graphics and sound are irrelevant, they are a part of the interface,
not of the virtual world.

>   Given that I don't
>   have access to a graphical system, and like the anonimity that text gives
>   me, I think I prefer text, for now.

A decent virtual world should have the capability of supporting a wide
range of interfaces ranging from simple text to full VR.

>   >I'd like to take the time to invite you to help me evaluate my MUD.
>   >Its named AfterFive and runs at pa.itd.com on port 9999.

I've been working with the simulation model of the first and original
LPmud, called Genesis, off and on, since LPmud was created in the
autumn of 1989.

I did parts of my master thesis, on multi interfaced virtual
environments, at the HITLab in 1991.

Almost all I've ever seen in this group is philosophy and technical
discussions on interfacing hard- and software. MUDs will never fit in
either category and will therefore be considered uninteresting.

MUDs are one of the precursors to the simulation models that future
virtual worlds will be built upon. The design and construction of such
models are more frequently discussed in rec.games.mud.lp than in
sci.virtual-worlds.

MUDs are also, and have been so from the start, designed with constant
feedback from users. Often undisciplined, antisocial collegebrats
without much sense or brains, but still users, from all over the
world.

Sadly enough, what are usually referred to as the field of 'Virtual
Reality Technology', is dominated by the 3D-graphics crowd. They have
IMO merely produced a lot of neat demo's of what could have been,
nothing usefull.

In their view, collision detection is something done on rendered
graphical objects. Nonrendered objects behind your back are silently
ignored...

Johan aka Commander@Genesis

Johan Andersson           | "You don`t have conversations with microprocessors
Chalmers, Sweden          | you tell them what to do, and then you helplessly
Email:                    | watch the disaster when they take you literally."
d8andjo@dtek.chalmers.se  |     Sah`ot in David Brins "Startide Rising"