HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hccs1012@blurt.oswego.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Black Belt
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:49:00 GMT
Organization: SUNY College at Oswego, Oswego, NY

If Jhoon Rhee wants to make a 1 year black belt program, let him. It is obvious
that he knows nothing of what it means to be a black belt, and that the years
of training it took him to achieve his also meant nothing. I think the people
who are so angry about this 1 year program have too much pride in the color of 
their belts instead of the meaning it symbolizes. It will not at all devalue
your rank for someone else to get their belt in a year. Perhaps to the largely
ignorant public a black belt is a black belt is a black belt, but to every one
of you who have achieved this level through long hours put in of sweat and
growth, it should not matter what other people say about your rank. You know
what it means, leave it at that. 

I think the people who are so worried are worried because they view their black
belts as symbols of rank and power, and that in general other people will have 
a lesser respect of that belt if a cheap imitation is available in 1 year. I 
think it doesn't matter what the general public respects. These people have
either gotten their black belts so they can show it off to other people because
they feel inadequate about their own ability to impress people. It is partly an
insecurity about themselves and partly an ego trip so that they can feel more
'powerful'. There I go, generalizing again. To those of you who are opposed to
this 1 year program, and don't fit into the insecure and egotistical stereotype
I just made, I apologize, but too many a black belt have I met that has gotten
it just to 'show off', and I suspect that this post will reach many people who
have gotten a black belt for that reason, whether they admit it or not.

 -Matt
  Hccs1012@blurt.oswego.EDU
  Hccs1012@snyowva.bitnet
From: ndd@bal1.mc.duke.edu (Ned Danieley)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Choosing a martial art - effectiveness?
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:10:22 GMT

tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly) writes:
: Like another poster, I am trying to choose a martial art.  Some of you
: will have heard from me before - when I was looking for input on sel-training
: in karate.
...
: 
: I am NOT interested in meditation, zen, pseudo- (or actual-) religious
: philosophies.  
: 
...
: KARATE - has a heavy weight of tradition behind it.  I enjoyed it.
: 	 However, it strikes me as being an inflexible system - in the
: 	 same way that nuclear weapons are inflexible.  At heart, I am
: 	 a pretty upright sort of guy.  I'd rather step off the pavement,
: 	 than fight.  I'd rather restrain, than strike.  I'd rather strike
: 	 a little than a lot.  I'd rather hurt than kill.

This, in my understanding, is exactly what Aikido was designed for; it's
certainly an aspect that I emphasize in my training.

: 
: Oh, due to their explicit religious links, I am not interested in Aikido,
: or Shorinji Kempo.  (Or at least I'm not interested in the religious aspects,
: which - in most schools - seem an integral part).

I'm curious about this; what explicit religious links have you seen
in Aikido schools? I've been studying and teaching Aikido for 12 years,
and the schools I've trained at haven't had any explicit religious links.

many Aikidoka do meditate; I don't. I sure that there are many people
who would argue that my Aikido could be better if I did, but it's not
required. I haven't paid much attention to zen, either.

one can argue that the bowing and respect paid to O-Sensei, the founder,
is quasi-religious, but that seems a bit touchy to me. some styles do
use a bowing method that is draw from Japanese religious ceremony (the
clapping is intended to draw the attention of the kami, I believe), but
in my experience you are free to interpret things as you see fit.

I would urge you not to judge any art by its surface characteristics:
take some time to investigate what's being done and why before choosing
your path.

-- 
Ned Danieley (ndd@sunbar.mc.duke.edu)
Basic Arrhythmia Laboratory
Box 3140, Duke University Medical Center
Durham, NC  27710   (919) 660-5111 or 660-5100
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Multiple attackers
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:29:59 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <1992Apr15.010926.15693@cs.brown.edu> tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
[I'm sure there will be a flood of response, might's well add my 2c.]

In reference to the (deleted) Aikido approach...that's some mighty quick
moving you have to do to get U spun around before V closes!

>  I claim that with a striking art, maybe you can simultaneously
>  block and strike, but to simultaneously 1) block 2) strike 
>  3) step away from other opponents and 4) use previous opponent 
>  as a weapon vs. the next, is impossible !!

Your example might be the approach some strikers would use, but not I,
for the same reasons you cite. Rather than blocking and striking the
first attacker (whether simultaneous or not), I would try to slip them
and get behind them, thus achieving the same goal the Aikidoka would
strive for: placing the first attacker in the path of the second. Maybe
I try to kick a knee or rake a claw across the face in the process. The
point is, we in the striking arts also have options of repositioning and
attacking simultaneously. Your example is biased only by virtue of the
fact that you are not giving a realistic scenario (at least in terms of
the response).

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: Here we go again...  (Dim Mak)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 20:13:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Keywords: Crunch, Break, Ow!

In article <2728@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>	You mean like chokes and armbars?  What "really lethal stuff" ?
>The Secret Dim Mak Delayed Death Foot Sweep? What?

Hmmm, well we actually *do* have that one somewhere in the system.
I'm not sure it was a sweep, but there is an account of a strike to
the heel area that caused death after a predetermined time. Pretty
recently, too; I'd say shortly after the turn of the century.  Oh, well...
(The grandfather of a person who is alive now was killed that way, if
I remember correctly.  That person is about 50 years old.)

Hitting the right spot would be hard enough; doing it with a sweep
(with your big toe, I'd guess) would require that you *REALLY* be
good!  ;-)

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
From: karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce flame
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:42:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: gacvx2.1992Apr13.154213.849

In article <1992Apr13.025331.11539@eng.umd.edu>  writes:

[blah blah blah... Bruce Lee's qualifications and fighting skill]
 
> 	please explain this.  how about some hard documentation that one
> can confirm.  we are not talking about fandom type 'he was the greatest',
> or black belt magazine filler by someone who never saw or met him in
> action, but someone of a level of competence that is at least recognized
> by a 'reasonable' number of people in the martial arts comunity.  someone
> who actually sparred him in a contest/fight, or saw his training on a
> regular basis.

Try Dan Inosanto, or Paul Vunak.
 
> 	as you can not go by the same criteria since you have never met
> bruce lee in person, or even seen him in person.  so, how can you speak
> for his skill in a fight....  it might be different if he had any docummented
> 'wins' in a tournament, or recognition by 'qualified' sifus of reputation....

Oh jeez, it's the attack of the killer dojo groupies again.

Excuse me, but 'wins' in a 'tournament'?  I guess that refers to point 
fighting tournaments.  I've been to some of those.  Basically it's two 
people shadowboxing each other, and one of them gets a point or half a 
point, at the discretion of the judges/referee.  Point fighting does 
not require fighting skill.  It requires 'point fighting' skill.  I'd
hate to relate what would happen to someone stupid enough to attack me
by throwing a reverse punch at my chest.  

I'll tell you how a friend of mine (Shotokan, TKD and Boxing)
and I (Muay Thai) practiced OUR fighting skills.  We put on
Kenpo gloves and elbow/foot/knee/forarm/shin/groin pads and beat
the hell out of each other in his backyard.  We trapped, grappled,
threw, wrestled, jabbed, elbowed, kicked, punched, and used knee 
strikes, shin kicks, forarms, everything except headbutts, cuz we 
weren't wearing any headgear.  THAT's fighting.               
      
> 	to the best of my knowledge, he never won any regional, national, or
> international title in anything (except the movies) and he was never made a
> master by a teacher of any style he studied.... nor did he ever attain a 
> level deserving such title.

Neither have I, and I have sparred with judoka, aikidoka, karateka,
TKDers, Kung Fu stylists, Thais (Muay Thai), and boxers.  None of
them have 'titles,' as far as I know.  They are fighters, not 'title'rs.
We fight to fight, because we like to fight, and because we are good
at fighting, and we're not in it to get a damn title.
   
Who cares about 'international' titles?  Only people who need to bolster
some sadly lacking self esteem, or who take others on some ego trip with
them have need for 'titles'.

Bruce Lee demonstrated his skill many times publicly.  There
are people who have seen his skill and were awed by it.
Why don't you read Robert Clouse's "The Making of Enter the
Dragon," for really absorbing analysis of the person known
as Bruce Lee.

Karsten Hendrick
karsten@nic.gac.edu
karsten@lavatch.gac.edu
From: jat@hpcuhb.cup.hp.com (Joseph Talmadge)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Vision
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:14:16 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino

barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson) writes:
> bill@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Bill Ferreira) writes:
> >	When sparring I focus my attention on the centre of my opponent,
> >relying on my peripheral vision to catch any movement, thus I am able
> >to watch the "whole" of my opponent, instead of just arms, legs etc.
> >This is with my glasses on, which is awkward.
> >My problem is that my vision is variously blurred without my glasses
> >(due to astigmatism) and so I tend to focus on one point clearly 
> >to the exclusion of other points, and I get clobbered by missing
> >attacking moves by split seconds. Any advice? (without suggesting
> >contact lenses).

For the most part, I try to not "focus" too hard, and use lots
of peripheral vision.  However, I end up giving the upper chest
(just below the chin) the most attention.  From there, I can see
both high punches and low kicks coming.

Be careful not to watch too low on the body.  If you're looking at
your opponents belly button, you can probably still see your
opponent's punches coming, but a muay Thai slashing elbow is
nearly invisible -- it comes in from too high to be seen with your
peripheral vision (my instructor showed me this when he caught
me staring down too low).

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: x89leggett1@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Stretching
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:09:38 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1992Apr8.103956.1534@brandonu.ca>, lampij@brandonu.ca writes:
> 
> 
> Hello again,
> 
> 	I wonder what types of stretching routines people do in their clubs.
> 	I am one of those terminally stiff people.  I have been training now
> for more than eight years (I know, just a kid) and I stretch on a regular
> basis.  Some people can just up and drop to their maximum stretch without more
> than a 'hello', while I must jug around and slowly loosen up before I can ease
> my way down to my maximum.  Were I ever to get in a self-defence situation, I
> think it would be difficult for me to drop into a nice stable stance while
> striking, and I would certainly not kick above the waist.
> 	Are their routines that are more effective for stretching than others? 
> 
> 	I think this would be a good place for some TKD people to practice
> explaining their principles of training for flexibility!!
> 
> Thanks for the info...
> 
> douglas lampi
> 
> lampij@brandonu.ca
> 
Well, I'm a Tang Soo Do student, but I think the training is probably
close enough to TKD to count.  

1)  Warm up well.  Don't just walk into the dojang (dojo) and drop into
the splits....(ARRRGH!, various ripping noises.)   
2)  Do some light exercise...jumping jacks, knee lifts etc...
3)  Start stretch kicks LOW...we normally throw about 10 kicks waist
  level, 10 kicks chest level, 10 kicks head high....and keep your
  muscles as relaxed as possible.
4)  In order to stretch properly, you need blood in your muscles...sit down,
legs straigh out, and tense and untense your leg muscles several times. Then
start a normal stretch routine.
5)  Stretching with a partner or using stretch bars is a great plus.
6)  In the middle of a hard work out, our instructor will just stop us,
and have us stretch for five minutes, then we get up and continue with
whatever we were doing.  This is repeated several times during a workout,
the reasoning being that our muscles are full of blood and relaxed, and
we can get the most benefit from stretching at that point.
7)  Our stances are deliberately low, to strengthen and stretch the legs.  I for one, couldn't fight out of my practice stance, but it sure works my leg muscles...
8)  For some people (like me!) gaining flexibility takes ages.  I probably have
to stretch regularly for six months to gain an inch in my horseride stance.  At 
the same time, there are several other students who can kick OVER their head,
and go FURTHER than full splits in our club...if thats the case in yours, dont
let it discourage you, take it as an inspiration...

(all the same, it's kind of infuriates me to see a white belt with more
flexibility than me, and I've been TSD for about three years now....)

Rae Leggett


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: lampij@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Books/Videos by Kanazawa Sensei??
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:35:29 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada


Greetings all,

	I amm interested in finding out if Master Hirokazu Kanazawa has
	karate Dojos affiliated with his organization 'SHOTOKAN KARATE
	INTERNATIONAL'.  If so, please send me E-mail with an address I can
	write to for more information...

	If that is not possible, does anyone know where I can get ahold of
	copies of his books on Kata?  As far as I know, he has two out.
	They are written in English, German, Spanish, French, and of course
	Japanese.  Of even greater interest yet, is the fine print at the
	bottom of one of the last pages where it says:

		A video tape version of these two volumes is also
		available for a better understanding.

	Dare I hope for info on this as well?

	The front cover of one of these volumes I have borrowed from a 	
	friend (who bought them in Japan) has a beautiful picture of
	Kanazawa Sensei doing a jumping side kick toward the cloud
	that regularly hangs above Mount Fuji.

Thanks for you attention!

douglas lampi

lampij@brandonu.ca
From: jm50+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason Piers McDonald)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Posting guidelines
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:22:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Mdv5VAi00WBME3lHIJ
	<8235@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>
Organization: Senior, IM - MCS/CIT Track, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

In article <sgfapINNln4@agate.berkeley.edu> upload@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael
 Robinson) writes:
>The idea is this:  no one will be permitted to write declarative sentences 
>about any art unless they have personally trained in it for at least a
>month.
>Comments?

    What the hell! Let's just make it a black-belt only club; that way
us annoying beginners won't get in the collective way of those who know.

    Maybe I'm just reactionary, but this seems like utter bullshit. You
want to flame beginners who use bad facts and empty statements -- go
ahead. But trying to tell them what they can and can't say is a load of
crap. Send the message that the input of beginners isn't welcome if you
really want, but if this goes through, I think I'll be checking out
early (even though I'm about to graduate and lose net access anyway.)

    Have a pleasant day.
                           
                                                    -- Jason

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
" 'Jimmy crack corn, and I don't care.' What the hell kind of attitude
is that?"

                                                -- Dennis Miller
Organization: Comp & Comm - Telecommunications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Thu,  9 Apr 1992 21:53:25 -0400 
From: Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
	<ku97qgINNfht@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>

rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) writes:
>     A point worth mentioning is that a puncture wound, such as is induced
>     by a foil, does not inflict the damage that a slashing wound will.
>     People who were stuck by piercing type European swords reportedly
>     lingered for days, weeks, or even longer, after losing a battle/bout.

	I understand that the European small sword (is that
the name?) which was popular in the late 18th century was supposed to
be pretty sharp - but for slashing, and not cutting.
	Musashi, in The Book of Five Rings, makes a distinction between
cuts and slashes. I'm guessing that a slash draws the edge across the
target and cuts long, but shallow, while a cut hacks through
everything.
	Can any kenjutsu/iaido folks help me out?

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: How to choose a Martial Art discipline?
Date: 11 Apr 92 01:10:25 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <Udt_8MK00UoJRfsj07@andrew.cmu.edu> sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan) writes:
>	He replied that that the whole point was to burn calories, so
>he WANTED to do it inefficiently. The more inefficient it was, the
>more exercise he got out of it for a given period of time.
>	I couldn't argue with that logic.

I ran into a similar situation recently when I went to my
first ever aerobics class. I thought it might be nice to
supplement my training to help improve endurance. I found
out several things.

1. My current Shao-Lin workouts appear to be much better
   aerobic exercise than some random comments led me to
   expect.

2. An hour-long  high-impact aerobics class is a pretty good
   warmup for a real workout.

3. My aerobic conditioning is quite a bit better than I thought
   (though still far behind that of Francis Farley, let's
   say, the professional kickboxer who taught at our fitness
   center recently).

4. I would get a better workout if I moved as inefficiently
   as all the people around me.

This last point is the one that I think bears most on your
comments. I kept noticing in the mirrors that all these
people around me were bouncing and wiggling like crazy;
very inefficient. My reflection looked lazy by comparison.
I'd get a better workout if I emulated my peers, but
that would make my poor brain hurt. ('No! No! Bouncing WRONG!
Bouncing BAD!').

I think I'll go back, though. It was a nice feeling to get
really warmed up and then just go about the rest of my
day instead of getting warmed up and then getting trashed out.
Helped my stretch for my regular workout that evening, too.
From: rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Keywords: chinese broadswords, and straightswords...
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:51:54 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: batcomfs

In article <1992Apr12.025605.26900@eng.umd.edu> doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes:
>
>	it's interesting, but the broadswords have the grooves for the blood
>and vacuum problem relief, but none of my straightswords have them.  the only
>speculation that comes to mind is that the straightsword, being a more elegant
>and higher level of weapon, would be used more for the cutting than the 
>stabbing aspect.

    "blood grooves" are a misnomer.  They are actually called "fullers",
    after the device the maker uses to create them, and their purpose is
    to lighten/strengthen the blade, not to allow blood to spurt out.

    There is no vacuum in a human body.  The difficulty in removing a
    blade is due to the pressure of meat on both sides of the blade.  If
    anything, a fuller would make it more difficult to remove a blade,
    since it increases surface area on which pressure can be applied.
--
    Robert Allen, rja@sun.com		DISCLAIMER: I said it, not my company.

    "Traditionalists often study what is taught, not what there is to create."
			     - Ed Parker, Grandmaster, American Kenpo.
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: How to choose a Martial Art discipline?
Summary: Boring, maybe, but not gentle...
Date: 9 Apr 92 01:43:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.s07fkINNpb8
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr6.202737.24494@bnr.ca> naldrett@bcarh893.bnr.ca (Steve Naldrett) writes:
>4. Gentle or Crush-and-Maim?
>
>   a) Gentle (protect yourself without hurting opponent):
>      P - aikido, tai chi
>
>   b) Crush-and-Maim (beat opponent into quivering, broken,
>      bleeding mass):
>      P - all others?? 8-)  <- note smiley before flaming please!

Last summer I took a month of Aikido as an exercise in horizon-broadening.
The one thing that really caught me off guard was the realization just how
vicious T'ai Chi actually is.  I might never have fully realized it had I not
tried a genuinely "nice" art.

Most people think of pushing-hands as the "fighting" part of T'ai Chi, but
the fighting "philosophy" is actually imbedded in the forms, and the
internalization of this philosophy comes from forms practice.  I had no 
real appreciation of just how much I had internalized this way until I 
started doing some novice-grade uke/tori drills.

Uke would grab my wrist, which I would cover as per instructions.  But then
I would sort of stare blankly as the opening, entry, execution, and finish 
of the technique were described.  All the while at the back of my T'ai Chi
brain a little voice was saying "you've got his wrist locked, and his knee
is right there...just finish the sucker off."

After a few tries on any given technique, I could go through all the
motions of putting uke to bed and tucking him in, but it really hurt my 
brain.

After a month I decided I would not be able to study Aikido until I was
good enough at T'ai Chi to be able to forget it.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Robinson                            UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Organization: Freshman, H&SS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 21:08:00 -0400 
From: Meron Langsner <ml57+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Musashi, blades, effectivness, etc
	<kugrl5INN3uf@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
Distribution: na

 	While we're still on the  subject of blades, didn't Musashi win many
of his duels using a  bokken against a live blade ?  This would bring up
the argument that the effect of a technique is dependent on the 
combination of blade and swordsman.  A good swordsman with a lousy sword
is still a good swordsman, but replace the defective blade with a good
one and watch the performance improve.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts