From: n2412@cray.com (Joe Green)
Subject: Re: the business of poetry
Keywords: condolences
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:00:51 CDT

I was going to write about the erotic death economy and the implications
of the captivity narrative in the poetry of dear dear Judson Jerome
but decided that one little thing or another should be cleared up
before I put out the dog.




In article <3542@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us> jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us writes:
>
>
>
>You're going to get the black man into the room, huh? ... talking about
>Rilke, Goethe, and Foucault? How about Gil Scott Heron, Le Roi Jones and 
>Ferlinghetti?
>
>(Oh, I remember, you asked for poems for Fidel. When did Ferlinghetti do that? 
>early sixties, right? Somehow joe, it just doesn't have as much impact today.)
>

You should really make the effort, my dear John Jacob, to make
your effigy of me a bit more realistic before the burning.  The
call for poems about Fidel -- and the sample of the poem I submitted --
were clearly other than an attempt to encourage an orgy of nostalgia
for old Fidel.  In fact, the poem was a parody of both Mr. F's -- and has
been enjoyed by many.  It parodies the longing for transcendence
in which you are implicated in your characterization of yourself
as a rural clod with access to the wisdom of the mountains.  This is
merely one example of your misreading -- motivated by the typical
longing for a scapegoat for your lack.

 I imagine that you are now beginning to feel how unfortunate your
reamrks about the black man and how I will not catch him with
the Goethe tarbaby were and feel some vague sense of regret that
you didn't type in the former Mr. Jones' name.  Or are you one of
those gay fellows who insist on Cassius Clay -- to demonstrate
your independence, perhaps.






>why you piss in your kitchen instead of your bathroom, where you
>might encounter a mirror.
>
>There are lots of world views joe ... those from the mountains ...
>and those from the bowels of a computer controlled world ... to name two.
>Whose dog are you?
>
>>Of course what you indulge in is a commodity.  That is my point.  You may
>>not be able to see the possibility of something else -- much
>>less enact that possibility.
>
>You haven't a clue as to what I may or may not be able to see ...
>and what's more, you couldn't care less. As long as I can't see you,
>that's all you really care about ... well, you've succeeded. The only 
>picture I have of joe green is that of a bored and bitter egomaniac who
>likes to ridicule people, who plays 'Shock Theater' whenever the urge
>to turn the gun to his temple becomes overpowering, and who pretends
>that the bullshoi he spews on whim is well thought out opinion.
>
>Must be wonderful to be so smart and so misunderstood ... Aren't you 
>a bit old for this game though? Just asking ... I don't mind if you
>continue playing ... (actually, I DO mind ... there's just nothing
>I can do to get you to stop).
>
>>>Poetry? Not here either .. but at least it's a labor of love
>>>(or nagging agony, the itch that never quite subsides).
>
>>No -- this kind of poetry a labor for a machine -- the itch
>>you feel may have another origin -- you may want to get outside --
>
>I don't think that's it ... ya see joe, I am outside ... I don't have to
>throw a stone to hit the Santa Cruz Mountains. All I need do is drop the
>stone. Those chains are heavy, huh joe? You can get lighter ones you know 
>... you do, I know ... but it would ruin the image, huh? 
>
>>but this kind of thinking (((hey, everything is a commodity
>>anyway) is what keeps you in that machine.
>
>More dishonesty ... aren't you the guy that bemoans the fate of the
>small press publications? Ironwood, Hambone, Bronte Street and others
>that us 'Mericans just don't support well enough? A noble sentiment,
>if you really mean it ... you don't suppose those pubs use that silly
>copyright symbol do you? Here, let me go inside and check ....
>
>Hey joe, I got news for ya joe ... and a question ... you ever found
>anybody as smart as you joe? I didn't think so.
>
>>You think that the "control freak" is someone who suggests that poetry 
>>might be a gift instead of a commodity?  
>
>No, I think the "control freak" mouths the words with some other motivation
>in mind ... and I don't mean the theft of intellectual property, so spare
>me the obligatory remark about not having anything worth taking ... This
>posturing of yours, you've got it down real well, are your robes equally
>impressive? And I've forgotten my lines in the litany ... you say
>"You are ALL .. slaves!" And our response is? "Oh, all knowing father,
>SAVE us!" Those the right words? 
>
>>Think about it.  Perhaps the real control is whatever it is that makes 
>>you think of poetry in the same terms as writing a song for a pimple or 
>>the scratching of an itch.
>
>More dishonesty ... God, it's staggering ... I know you know how to read. 
>
>I write songs for myself ... I've written PRESS RELEASES for teenagers 
>that couldn't do it for themselves (and yeah, sometimes they made me mad 
>enough to refer to them as pimples. And I'm sure that on more than one 
>occasion, they thought of me as 'that damned old man' that just didn't 
>understand). 
>
>And joe green writes for the enlightenment of mankind, not for anything
>as crass and human as an ITCH! MY God no! joe's far more nobler than that!
>Tell me joe ... does the throne room ever get claustrophobic?
>
>>I don't have any poets.  
>
>Only yourself ... and that IS sad ... all that reading, and not
>a tinge of humanity filters through that ego ... nothing, no one
>can see you ...  and most everything you read is depressing ...
>
>While I, in my ignorance, am caught humming by everyone, have many,
>many poets, and am as depressed by the stuff YOU claim as poetry as
>you are depressed by Frost, Tennyson, Sandburg and the stuff I claim 
>as poetry. Better songs for pimples than blueprints for 21st century 
>fascists.
>
>>Then there is the fact (which I have been kind enough not to
>>mention) that there is no need to copyright your stuff
>>since no-one would want to copy it.  Dull.  Dumb.
>
>Now here's a surprise ... Joe! You don't like what I write!? ...
>Now, I really AM hurt ... this wouldn't have anything to do with,
>nah ... 
>
>>Hope this helps.
>
>Sure you do ... we've all seen what a sweet guy you are ... but
>you'll just have to think of me as a lost cause ... I'm sure you
>already do.
>
>		JJWebb
>-- 
>


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