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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:46:23 -0800
From:         John Baskette <jfb@MACSCH.COM>
Subject:      Re: Unanswered prayer and loving the brethren (and sisteren too!)

In article <22151.9301071955@pop.mcs.dundee.ac.uk> "Ian (Travolta) Wylie C2/Q2"
 <iwylie@MCS.DUNDEE.AC.UK> writes:

>I want to point out a misinterpretation of Romans 8:26, no flame intended.
>
>Paul says that we do not know what to pray for, so the Spirit intercedes for
>us.
>
>The Scriptures also show us how this is achieved, by praying in the Spirit,
>that is, praying in tongues.  Paul himself said he prays more in the Spirit,
>(in tongues), than anyone else. Therefore we can deduce that God intends us
>to pray mostly in the Spirit ,(in tongues), after we receive the baptism in
>the Spirit.

Hello Ian Wylie,

Here's a a question for you, if the spirit's intercession in Rom. 8:26
refers to tongues, then how come the intercession is "with groanings
which cannot be uttered?"  If they cannot be uttered how can they be
tongues?  If groaning is not a figure of speech and refers literally
to some kind of noise making procedure, then what does Paul mean in
the prior verse 23 by the whole creation groaning?

I've been reading some of your other posts.  I admit that I am saddened
by what I see.  I now intend to rebuke you somewhat.  Please remember
that as the Scriptures teach, "A reproof entereth more into a wise man
than a hundred strips into a fool".

You say of Amy Grant:

>Although Amy Grant thinks and sells herself as being Christian, we know
>according to her fruit, (music, statements made, lifestyle, etc), that she is
>not like Jesus, and that is the test.

The implication is that Amy Grant is not a Christian because "you shall
know them by their fruits" and since Amy's fruit is evil, so is she.  You
imply that Amy merely thinks and sells herself as a Christian but she
isn't one.  You imply that her words and lifestyle are "evil".

To the best of my knowledge Amy's testimony and lifestyle are exemplary.
She is a public figure.  If you know of any evil testimony or excommunicable
sin of which the church at large ought to be aware, then please present
some specific accusations with evidence.  If you have clear and convincing
evidence, tell it to the church so that we may all be warned.  If not, then
do not publicly accuse a fellow believer in this manner.  The Bible
clearly teaches in I & II Timothy and Titus that we are not to be false
accusers or slanderers, and bearing false witness is clearly sin.

I gather that the reason for this remark is that Amy is a rock star.  I
suggest that most of the church (including the Pentecostal and charismatic
churches) will not agree with your beliefs regarding rock music and
contemporary Christian music.  If you cannot show that Amy Grant is guilty
of excommunicable sin, then it would seem that Paul's teachings
regarding Christian Charity and unity in Romans 14 ought to apply.

  "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at naught
   thy brother?  for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of
   Christ.  For it is written,  `As I live, saith the Lord, every knee
   shall bow to me,  And every tongue shall confess to God.'  So then
   every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

Your remarks regarding Christmas and music and tongues are signals that you
may be a Christian who emphasizes separation from other Christians who you
regard as guilty of doctrinal error and sin in gray areas like celebrating
Christmas.  In I Cor. 3, the Bible describes those who create divisions in
the body of Christ as carnal, as babes in Christ.  I exhort you to humility.

Listen to what other Christians, including Roman Catholic and Orthodox and
Calvinist and Pentecostal and Baptist and Christians with lifestyles and
cultures that are very different from your own.  We are all brothers and
sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ.  The love and unity of the brethren is a
serious duty that Christ requires of his people.  It is his new commandant
we love one another, even as He loved us.  The apostle John says, "If a man
say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar; for he that loveth
not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not
seen?"

My words my be grievous to you, and you seem to be very fixed in your
positions so I would be surprised if you respond very favorably.  I am,
however, very serious about what I am saying.  It is not said lightly as
a flame.  As I get older, I find that I no longer wish to remain silent
when I see intolerance and division among Christians.  Why should I
tolerate intolerance?  Note that in this post I am reproving you with
regard to Amy Grant, but the other statements are exhortations and
warnings.

God Bless you.

John Baskette  jfb@macsch.com
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