HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robg@Cadence.COM (Rob Garneau)
Subject: Re: Lifejackets while windsurfing
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 23:23:51 GMT

A few people were talking about wearing a PFD in case their board got away
from them and they were not able to swim fast enough to catch it. Has that
ever happened to anyone?

Rob Garneau
Seatrend 9'0"
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Gloves, Suits and Boots?
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:25:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.145331.9685@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
yurkon@rudolf.nscl.msu.edu (John Yurkon) writes:
 
>Any recommendations on Gloves for cold weather sailing?  I'm currently
>using ThunderHides and they're worse than going bare.   Are there any
>dry gloves that'll work without a dry suit?  I'm also looking for a
>wet-suit or dry-suit.  I've heard that dry suits are bulky, is that
>true?
>
>I prefer to not go too high tech.  I just need something to survive the
>one or two months before the lake freezes.
>
A really low tech approach is to use snug fitting rubber gloves.  I got some
industrial strength ones surplus at about $2/pair.  You could look in the
housewares section of the grocery store for dishwashing gloves.  (If they
leak at the cuff, add a rubber band there, or simply tuck them under your
wetsuit cuffs.)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: bw@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Bruce White 3807)
Subject: Re: Multi-Sail (two sails in one) recommendation ?
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Distribution:  world
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 21:53:34 GMT

A well known windsurfer looked at a Multisail during a rigging clinic and
noticed how full the top of the sail was. He concluded that it would be
difficult to control in gusty and high wind conditions, compared to the 
new generation of loose-leach sails which twist off when they get overpowered.

--- Bruce
From: wells@zach.fit.edu (James M. Wells)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Question re sources for Tandem boards.
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:52:47 GMT
Organization: Florida Institute of Technology, Melbourne USA

I would like to buy a tandem (two masted) sailboard.
I believe they are common in Europe, but very rare here.
Can anyone give me an address or phone number where I 
might obtain one?
Thanks in advance.  Please email if possible.

-- 
James M. Wells, Florida Institute of Technology
150 W. University Blvd., Melbourne, FL 32901. +1 407 768 8000 x7285
wells@zach.fit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: hahn@gigantor.nas.nasa.gov (Jonathan Hahn)
Subject: North 2-piece pin question
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 19:55:26 GMT

I had a break-down last week at Coyote because the North pin that
screws into my U-joint broke at the threads at the base of the pin.

I bought a new North pin and the new design is two pieces: a threaded
bolt with a hex wrench socket at one end, and the North pin casing.
The bolt screws into the pin casing and the U-joint.  My question is,
which way does the bolt go?  The guy at Any Mountain said to screw it
into the pin casing first, with the hex socket end sticking out, then
screw that into the U-joint.

The problem I have with this is that intuitively, there is even less
metal at the point where my other one broke.  And based on past
experience, I don't totally trust their advice.

		 _______________
		/		\
		|   pin casing	|
		=		=
		| _____________	|
		||	       ||
		||	       ||
		||	       ||
		||	       ||
		||   threaded  ||
		||     bolt    ||
		||	       ||
		||	       ||
		||	       ||
		||	       ||
		||	       ||
		|| ____________||
	_________||	      ||<__<__<__<---- point of previous breakage
	|	 ||  hex      ||	|
	|	 ||  socket   ||	|
	|	 ||           ||	|
	|				|
	|	     U-joint		|
	|				|
	|/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|

Does anyone know how this is suppsed to be used?  Which end of the bolt
goes into the pin/U-joint?  Which end is tightened first?  Do I need a
washer?  (I wasn't given one).

thanks in advance,
-jonathan hahn
--
hahn@nas.nasa.gov					wk: (415) 604-4360
..!ames!amelia!hahn					hm: (408) 736-7014
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi (Juri Munkki)
Subject: Re: North 2-piece pin question
Reply-To: jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi (Juri Munkki)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:48:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.195526.14388@nas.nasa.gov> hahn@gigantor.nas.nasa.gov (Jonathan Hahn) writes:
>I had a break-down last week at Coyote because the North pin that
>screws into my U-joint broke at the threads at the base of the pin.

North has been warning customers about the old design for a few
years now. If any of you still have the old design, get one of
the new ones as soon as possible. The old pin has a male thread,
the new one has a female thread.

>I bought a new North pin and the new design is two pieces: a threaded
>bolt with a hex wrench socket at one end, and the North pin casing.
>The bolt screws into the pin casing and the U-joint.  My question is,
>which way does the bolt go?  The guy at Any Mountain said to screw it
>into the pin casing first, with the hex socket end sticking out, then
>screw that into the U-joint.

I think I normally do it the other way around. The thread in the
universal joint usually isn't quite as long as the one inside the pin.
I don't think that it matters all that much.

>The problem I have with this is that intuitively, there is even less
>metal at the point where my other one broke.  And based on past
>experience, I don't totally trust their advice.

The problem with the old design was that they couldn't make it
strong enough. The two separate parts that are used now are much
more resistant to bending.

>Does anyone know how this is suppsed to be used?  Which end of the bolt
>goes into the pin/U-joint?  Which end is tightened first?  Do I need a
>washer?  (I wasn't given one).

You should have bought a washer.

The bolt that I currently have in my universal joint doesn't even have
the hex hole, so the dealer just put some superglue on the bolt and
screwed it without any tools. It has worked great so far (I have only
used it a few times), but I'm still just a little bit worried. The
North pins have a tendency of becoming unscrewed sometimes. On the
other hand, since the pin isn't screwed in as tightly, the washer now
rotates freely (a good thing, IMHO).


-- 
  Juri Munkki					       Windsurf: fast sailing
 jmunkki@hut.fi					      Macintosh: fast software
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: price@helios.unl.edu (Chad  Price)
Subject: Re: Right of way (USWA)
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:21:03 GMT

mjarriel@atria.srg (Michael Jarriel x4751) writes:

>>|> This whole conversation revolves around issues that USWA has been the most  
>>|> effective in resolving... Access, protection from motorhead DNR geeks, relief  
>>|> from state PFD regs, etc. Why not everybody join and make the organization a  
>>|> real heavyweight?
>>
>>Good idea.  Have an address?
>>
>>-joel

>To join (or just write the USWA) 

>USWA
>P.O. Box 978
>Hood River, OR  97031

>Dues
>$20 Individual
>$10 If you are a member of a local club

which is also a member of the USWA - $50/year per club


--
chad
price@helios.unl.edu
cprice@molecular.unmc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Optimal Sail Quivers
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:22:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.060945.26243@leland.Stanford.EDU>
janusz@leland.Stanford.EDU (Janusz Mrozek) writes:
 
>What do you think are the best size intervals for a sail quiver, especially
>for the newer, wider-range sails?
>
>For that matter, should sail sizes increase in constant proportion (as many
>sail models do) or should they increase in fixed increments (as some do)?
>Is there some connection to some law of physics?
 
Think about it for a moment.  I have needed to switch from my 3.8 down to
my 3.3, or up to my 4.5 on occasions.  But, I would never dream of switching
from my 10.0 to a size only 0.5 or so bigger or smaller.  (My next size
smaller is 8.5, and I have never felt there to be a gap in my sail sizes.)
So, at least in the extremes, constant steps seem not to make sense.  Since
I believe physics at this level to be continuous, I suspect one wouldn't
want constant steps in the intermediate sizes either (although, for a small
number of sails, proportional steps and constant steps become hard to
distinguish.)
 
Now for some conjectures.  Force is proportional to change in momentum
(physics).  So, force on a sail depends on how much air is intercepted
by the sail (this depends on sail area), and how much the air's velocity
is changed (this depends on where in the sail the air hits, with the
greatest changes occuring near the mast.)  This makes me guess that the
force on the sail (for a given wind, angle of attack, etc.) is propotional
to something between the first and second power of sail area. (For
similarly shaped sails, the area goes as the square of the mast length.)
 
Ok, now I am guessing that the amount of sail you can control depends on
the forces on it.  Say you want to stay within a fixed percentage of some
maximum force.  Then you want to choose sail sizes so that the xth power
of their size varies proportionally.  If x=1, then vary sizes proportionally.
If x=2, then the sizes should vary by very nearly a constant increment
(For small y, (1+y)(1+y) = almost exactly 1 + 2y).
 
BTW.  My sails go from 3.2 to 10.0 in roughly 15% jumps.
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: New Zealand Windsurfing guide 
From: srgxnbs@grv (Bruce Spedding)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 01:57:17 GMT
Reply-To: srgxnbs@grv
Organization: DSIR, Lower Hutt, New Zealand.

I've just been queried about NZ windsurfing, and although I'm quite
happy to respond my knowledge is limited geographically, mainly to Wellington
I'll post a summary based on my experience and other myths, but would
appreciate it if other NZ windsurfers or anyone who has visited NZ would
provide feedback, this could be a useful resource both for us locally and
incoming sailors.

Bruce
Bruce Spedding
Materials Science and Performance
Industrial Research Ltd,     Fax: +64-4-569-0132
P.O.Box 31310,              Work: +64-4-569-0485
Lower Hutt,  ( NZST : +12 ) Home: +64-4-562-8522
New Zealand.  Internet: srgxnbs@grv.grace.cri.nz  
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: crawford@aerospace.aero.org (Kirk Crawford)
Subject: Re: Board rental in LA county
Followup-To: rec.windsurfing
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:24:30 GMT

In article <chuck.716189216@merope>, chuck@micro.caltech.edu (Chuck
Higgins) wrote:
> 
>   I am very interested in getting back onto the water, but can't put out the
> cash for my own board now;  where is the best place to rent a sailboard in 
> Los Angeles county, or in San Diego, California?  Any recomendations for
> places to go (lakes or beaches, etc).  Thanks in advance for any help.
> 
>             Chuck Higgins, Caltech EE

I believe SailBoards West in San Pedro rents boards.  They also have a
bunch of good deals on used boards.  I don't have their number right now,
but information does.

Cabrillo Beach (aka Hurricane Gulch) is a good place to go windsurfing.  It
is in San Pedro right at the break water for Los Angeles harbor.
From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 23:33:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Helmet Foam
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing

In article <1992Sep3.184702.3851@leland.Stanford.EDU> janusz@leland.Stanford.EDU (Janusz Mrozek) writes:
>I'm a little disturbed to see the suggestions from Bruce Spedding and Ken
>Berger for removing the liner from a helmet so that it fits over a hood.

<sigh>

It seems like a head covered with 4 or 5 mm of neopreme and then with
a plastic helmet sans foam will be much better than just 4 or 5 mm of
neopreme.

Kirk out
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: stig@stud.cs.uit.no (Stig Johansen)
Subject: Re: Sail survey results
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:11:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.203118.891@SSD.intel.com>, rogerc@ssd.intel.com (Roger Christal) writes:
SOME LINES DELETED!
|> Ok, how about 19 sails.  2 Alpha, 1 O'Brien, 3 NPU, 3 Blackpoint, 4
|> North and 6 Northwave.  Can I also count the Nautix 2.5 I just bought
|> for my 8 year-old son?
|> 
|> Com'on guys.  We got to have some basement dealers out there with
|> some really BIG numbers! {;^)
|> >>=-  Roger Christal  rogerc@techbook.com  rogerc@ssd.intel.com  -=<<

Gosh, I said at first glance, but then I started counting my own sails.  
I'we come to 31 sails. This must be the reason I have no money, left.

One Alpha Professional '81, 2 old triangular Waylers, two old F2 radical cut, 
one Mistral 6.0, two Gaastra Racefoil Pros '89, four Gaastra Slalomfoil 
Pros '91, five Gaastra Wavefoil Pros '91, four Gaastra Slalomfoil Pros '92,
one Gaastra Racefoil Pro '92, five Gaastra Wavefoil Pros '92, four Gaastra 
Cource-Slalomfoil Pros '93, and hopefully no more sails for at least a year. 

I had no more than two or three sails at a time in the period 82-90. But
I took off in 1991. Many regatta sailors must have had a lot more than me.

Arctic Surf Bums: Almost 70 degrees north :-)
-- 
//// Stig Johansen, research assistant //    Email: stig@stud.cs.uit.no  /
/// Computer Science Department       //    Phone : +47 83 44121        //
// University of Tromsoe             //    Telefax: +47 83 44580       ///
/ N-9037 TROMSOE, NORWAY            //                                ////
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: rogerc@ssd.intel.com (Roger Christal)
Subject: Re: Optimal Sail Quivers
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:57:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.060945.26243@leland.Stanford.EDU> janusz@leland.Stanford.EDU (Janusz Mrozek) writes:

>What do you think are the best size intervals for a sail quiver, especially
>for the newer, wider-range sails?
>
>Here is my optimal quiver...3.5  4.2  5.1  6.2  7.5  9.0  11.0
>
>For my immediate needs here in the SFBay area I have a 3-sail quiver 4.2-6.2 
>instead of the 4-sail 4.5-6.4 quiver I have now.

My $0.02.

There is no doubt that the wind range of sails has increased
significantly with loose-leach, twisty sails.

iOn the other hand, board manufacturers and custom board builders have
focused on lighter and lighter boards for a variety of reasons.  This
has significantly decreased the usable wind range of these boards.
Once on a plane and fully powered up, light and heavy doesn't really
matter that much.  The top end speed of each will be very close.

You mention a SFBay quiver of 4.2, 5.1 and 6.2.  This is great IF you
have the boards to support the quiver.

As an example, what happens when you're sailing the 6.2 and the wind
picks up, but not quite enough to rig down to the 5.1?  You really
want to be able to go to a smaller board so that you don't get totally
blown away.  The problem is, this smaller board also has to support a
wide range of sailing conditions; ie, fully powered 4.2.  That is
quite a wide range of conditions, isn't it?

Of course, you eventually want to get into 3.5 conditions, right?
Well, will that smaller board support those conditions also, or are
you going to need a third board?

The point is, you should try to have the optimal equipment for the
current conditions.  I feel this means having a quiver of sails spaced
by about 0.4 sqm apart in small sails, 0.5 sqm apart in the medium
range and 0.6 sqm in the larger sails.

Think about a day on SFBay when it is blowing a perfect 5.5.  Which
sail are you going to rig?  The 6.2?  What if the wind picks up
significantly?  Or, how about the 5.1?  Are you willing do to the hula
for a few hours?  What happens if the wind dies?  In either case, how
far offshore are you willing to go when you know the sail you rigged
isn't really right for the conditions?

My quiver is 6 sails from 3.5 to 6.2.  With this quiver, I don't have
to sail totally overpowered and I don't hula.

-- 

>>=-  Roger Christal  rogerc@techbook.com  rogerc@ssd.intel.com  -=<<
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: ekoperen@cs.vu.nl (Koperen van EB)
Subject: Re: Swimming back with your gear
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 11:23:52 GMT

I do it this way:

I lay my sail on the rear of my board, if there is any wind 
with the mats towards it, on the foot straps.
Then i climb up on the board on the front facing the REAR,
and put my legs under the sail to keep it in balance.
Sitting like this i paddle.
Yes, you can't see where tou are going; so what?  it's not 
that hard to look over your shoulder now and then.

This worx fine on a 2.90 board, on shorter boards you might 
have some difficulty's layingyour sail on the rear.

Greetz Ellert.

-- 

					Out of ideas error.

Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: nickn@mummy.agsm.unsw.OZ.AU (Nick_Nikov)
Subject: Re: North Booms
Organization: Australian Graduate School of Management
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 00:31:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.063714.13879@nntp.hut.fi> jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi (Juri Munkki) writes:
>In article <BtxG37.92E@vcd.hp.com> carlt@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (carl thomsen) writes:
>>When I bought the replacement front-end the salesman claimed that North had made
>>an improvement in the design (interior ribs) to prevent the failure.
>>
>>Almost coming up on one year for the new front-end so we shall see.
>
>A friend of mine broke his North boom (HD) after about a year of sailing.
>The front end and extension tube broke almost simultaneously. The tubes
>with the grip were intact. He got replacement parts directly from North
>even without a receipt. (It was slightly over a year, so a receipt would
>only have complicated the matter...)
>
>The new extension tubes and back end are different from the old
>ones. It seems that they made them stronger this year.
>
>I don't know if they have changed the front end.
>-- 
>  Juri Munkki					       Windsurf: fast sailing
> jmunkki@hut.fi					      Macintosh: fast software


Those who have used or seen the North Boom agree it is of good design BUT the
tubes need to be thicker (HEAVIER) because of the grooved system for the
rear adjusting section. This is where they break. The only solution I see
is to make them thicker but that adds weight. The front end breaks because
North are treating the alloy properly. It needs to be cast or heated to
higher temps. before bending.

Its a case of nearly getting it all right. As indicated this has shown to
be near the design limits (notice they break at about a year). We have quality

design but not quite quality manufacture.

I would rather have some components over designed. I am sure North are
working on it.


-- 
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Nick Nikov		  Internet (AARnet): nickn@agsm.unsw.oz.au
Australian Graduate School of Management,	Tel: 61 2 931 9263
P.O. Box 1, Kensington. N.S.W. 2033.		Fax: 61 2 662 7621
From: yurkon@rudolf.nscl.msu.edu (John Yurkon)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Gloves, Suits and Boots?
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:53:31 GMT
Reply-To: yurkon@rudolf.nscl.msu.edu (John Yurkon)
Organization: National Superconducting Cyclotron Laboratory

Any recommendations on Gloves for cold weather sailing?  I'm currently
using ThunderHides and they're worse than going bare.   Are there any
dry gloves that'll work without a dry suit?  I'm also looking for a
wet-suit or dry-suit.  I've heard that dry suits are bulky, is that
true?

I prefer to not go too high tech.  I just need something to survive the
one or two months before the lake freezes.

	John

Email is fine unless you feel others are interested.
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: shef@cuervo.rtp.dg.com (Tom Sheffield)
Subject: Re: slalom boards
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 11:46:31 GMT
Organization: Data General, Corporate Systems Support 

In article <1992Sep8.174107.851@pictel.com>, bruder@pictel.com (John Bruder) writes:
|> I just broke my 9 ft custom slalom board and am in the market for another.
|> I am considering one the following:
|> 	used 91 Bic Adagio for $450
|> 	new 91 Bic Adagio for $600
|> 	new 92 Bic Adagio for $800
|> 	new 91 Mistral Screamer for $700
|> 	open to suggestions.
|> 
|> Most of the sailing I do is in Vinyard Sound and Buzzards Bay with sail
|> sizes ranging from 4.0 - 6.0.  I'll probably purchase a high wind board
|> also.  I am an intermediate sailor working on planing jibes.  I
|> highly value price vs. performance as well as durability. Any
|> recommendations will be greatly appreciated.  Please e-mail or post.
-- 
I owned a Screamer for 2 years and had the opportunity to sail a Adagio at
Sailboard Vacations in Aruba a few weeks ago. My personal opinion is that
the Screamer is a more forgiving board. It's easier to jibe, but probably
isn't as fast as the Adagio.
 The sail range you mention goes below the range that I'd recommend for
the Screamer. I'd say it's best in 6.5-5.0 conditions (I weigh ~#180, so
that's something like 12-25kts). I've sailed it in 4.3 conditions and it
got to be quite a handfull. The Adagio has about the same volume in a 
somewhat shorter length (8'9" vs. 9'2"), so it might accomodate the 4.0
conditions a little better than the Screamer. The conditions in Aruba 
don't allow me to comment on how the Adagio would handle in the chop  
normally associated with winds >25kts. First, you have to go half-way to
Panama to experience any chop, and second...I didn't sail anything smaller
than a 5.0. However, I thought the board was reasonably fast. I still
couldn't keep up with the pros that were down there testing some new
Pro-Tech prototypes, but then again...I've never considered myself to
be very fast. 
 I know several sailors that have (or have had) Screamers. All of them
are happy. I sailed the Adagio while I was in Aruba because I had heard
it was comparable to the Mistral Energy, which is my current board in 
that size. I liked the Adagio, but in Aruba I'd probably have like the
'85 Mistral Maui (44lb log) that I learned on.
 Good luck! I think it's a tough choice.

Tom S. (Going to Bogue Sound this weekend to jump and jibe.)
From: hahn@gigantor.nas.nasa.gov (Jonathan Hahn)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Caberette Winds Trip Quick Report
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:24:23 GMT
Organization: Unetix Inc. @ NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <1992Sep12.024744.26230@netlabs.com> gerard@netlabs.com (Gerard Horan) writes:
>
>Thought I would give a quick "Caberette" Trip report.
>
>
>I will go back to Caberette. I will stay again at the Palm Beach, (Casa Laguna
>was okay too but the power kept on going out). Next time I will probably bring
>my own equipment. The equipment at Vela was okay but a little worn out. 

I stayed at Casa Laguna about three years ago, and they had power
problems then too.  I guess they still don't have working generator,
though it's hard to believe.  Without power, you loose light, hot
water, and often water preasure upstairs (i.e. no water period).  Other
than the power problems (which were a nuisance), the place is quite
nice.

-jonathan hahn
--
hahn@nas.nasa.gov					wk: (415) 604-4360
..!ames!amelia!hahn					hm: (408) 736-7014
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing