HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: an4258@anon.penet.fi (dances-with-aardvarks.)
Subject: substantial body hair removal
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 03:14:24 GMT

Valerie here.

In message <1993Jan9.113500.26283@fuug.fi>, 
an2881@anon.penet.fi (Shannon) writes:
>	Now for a question... I'm pretty hairy generally, and it's always been
>	a phenominal hangup with me back to when a little brat said "Mommy does
>	he have fleas?" at the beach about 10 years ago. It does interfere with
>	a really good tan too :) ! H'anyway... has anyone out there ever had,
>	or has looked into permanent, or otherwise, _substantial_ body hair
>	removal? 

Some people's skin can handle regular shaving.  Mine cannot.  My body is
so hairy that my esso said it looked like there was a cat sitting at my
feet after I did a body clipping and swept the hair into a pile.

Electrolysis is the only way to permanently remove hair.  Yes, it is a
tedious, expensive, uncomfortable procedure.  You just have to start going
every week for an hour or two.  If you are persistent, you will make
progress.  I am having my beard removed; we're over halfway done after 24
hours (of course, there will be a year or two of occasional touch-ups
afterwards).  Yes, it is worth it.  We plan to start on my body when
finished with the beard.  Fortunately, the density of hair follicles on
the body is low in comparison to the head.

Valerie/dances-with-aardvarks                       an1845@anon.penet.fi
Subject to change without notice.


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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: devin@colorado.edu (No one in particular)
Subject: Re: is it the body or the brain?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:16:42 GMT

Tierney Dhewitrei (an2967@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
: I notice that most of us speak about being in the wrong body.
: For me this is difficult to handle.  What seems to be more
: plausable is that I'm in the correct body, my brain is just
: confused.  I guess it's easier to think it is environment
: rather then a mistake God made.  [...]  So, am I
: the only one that feels this way, or are there others that
: think that maybe it is a psychological problem and not a
: physical one.  Am I reducing beyond the lowest common
: denominator?

Yes, I think you are.  I think this is one of the most common differences
between people who consider themselves transsexual and people who crossdress
for other reasons.  Most TSes consider themselves in the wrong body, or
some very similar sentiment.

There's also evidence that transsexuality has pre-natal elements.

			-Deb

(Side note:  I firmly believe that TSes and TVs are different in more than
just degree.  This doesn't mean, however, that there aren't good reasons to
share a community together.  Since that point has been commented on before...)

--
Deborah Parks (RP90)  (SotM 7/91)  DoD #0034  deb@boulder.colorado.edu   ------
"It's being both that's a bitch."                                      --\--- /
"I wanted to take my brain to hell and back and see what I had left."  \  \ //
"This howling in the distance, it's a captivating sound.                \  \/
        Can't tell if it's ecstasy or pain..."  -DW                      \/
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an4107@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Hi
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 20:23:33 GMT



Hi all i have been cd for half of my given life now im 22 years old and just recently found this forum,. Im looking to get on to the Cd forum and start receiving it in a bit. I will post my bio one of these days when i feel like typing it out
Love Dar

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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (Celeste)
Subject: Re: Teaching a Psych of Gender class- looking for YOUR help!
Followup-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: AEGIS
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:08:55 GMT

In article <C0Dx5s.GG7@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v065hjku@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
(Jason Osborne) wrote:
> 
[stuff deleted]
> What I am looking for is stories by
> people who feel more natural posing as the opposite sex than as their
> 'anatomical' or 'genetic' sex.  I would like to know how it feels to
> or what it is like to feel you belong to a different sex.  Do you feel
> alienated?  Do you feel like you fit in better with the opposite sex
> better than your own?  Do you feel equally comfortable with either?  
> Well, this is not getting any clearer, so I will appreciate anything
> anybody sends me, and will of course keep it entirely confidential.
> 
[stuff deleted
> Jason Osborne
> State University of New York at Buffalo
> v065hjku@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu

I suggest the following books:

"Sexual Identity Conflict in Childer and Adults"
By Green

Has the personal history and interviews of childer, men and women
that identifiy with oppoiste gender.

"To Be A Woman" by Jerry/Jerri McClain

A fictional diary of a man that lives as a woman. Many of experiencs
in this work reflect my own and others.

The letters section in "Tapestry"

The personal experiences of many CD/TG/TS people. Also articles
on the problems experiences.

That should get you started.

Write again if you have problems getting these publications.

Love and hugs,

Celeste
From: russw@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: Popery and Momery
Date: 9 Jan 1993 13:06:30 -0600
Organization: Great Northern Hotel
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan9.120506.5124@fuug.fi> an5234@anon.penet.fi (aml) writes:
>years of the alleged dates of the alleged pope (mome?), for what purpose
                                                 ^^^^ clever!
I've heard Pope Joan was a fabrication also.

>If you're looking for dramatic historical figures, the Chevalier [is there
>a feminine form of that title?] d'Eon, an unquestionably historical
>figure, is almost a TV fantasy come to life (he, the Chevalier, reportedly
>spied in England, disguised as a woman.  This caused a scandal, with the
>result that the French state denied his masculinity--and ordered him to
>live as a woman for the rest of his life).

There's a nice article about the chevalier in Military History, the
Dec 1991 issue, p.8.  The first paragraph:

 In the annals of international intrigue, there is perhaps no story
 more bizarre than that of the Chevalier Charles Genevieve Louis
 Auguste Andre Timothee d'Eon de Beaumont.  This very slight product
 of French petite noblesse, born in 1728, was destined to have the
 strangest of careers--as a spy for France's King Louis XV, as
 femme fatale at the imperial Russian court, as courageous soldier,
 as arch plotter and as thorn in the side of Louis' political enemies.

aml is right that the chevalier is a dramatic historical figure!
I recommend the article.  It also includes a portrait of d'Eon
dressed as "Mademoiselle Lie de Beaumont", "a master swordsman--and
one of the most accomplished female impersonators in history".
For balance, there's also a portrait of him as a captain in the
royal dragoons. :-)

The article gives the (weirdly amusing) details of how "against his
wishes, Le Chevalier had suddenly become La Chevaliere, but
nonetheless remained prominent in Paris society."  It's too long
to type in, but quite interesting stuff.  (Never thought I'd
be quoting from Military History on alt.transgendered!)

It's mentioned at the end of the article that English psychologist
Havelock Ellis used the Chevalier d'Eon's name to coin the new
medical term "eonism" to describe "the plight of the transvestite".

>of wonderfully juicy little TV tidbits [tit-bits?] in history, like the
>German General Staff officer who, before WWI, had a heart attack and
>died--while dancing for friends in full ballet costume.  Said friends are

I've not heard of that one.  Perhaps we should compile a list of
such interesting historical figures!

Russ
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an5328@anon.penet.fi (Shelley P.)
Subject: Anon Posting
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:01:26 GMT

Please forgive me if this is a re-post.  I've been struggling with the
anon service.

'coming out' as a crossdresser is a major step.  Society seems to have
accepted the fact that people's sexual attraction may vary from person
to person, but not their sexual identity.  In _Fantastic Women_ Annie
Woodhouse a UK sociologist describes the discomfort that occurs when
approached by a person whose sex is indeterminate.  The first thing we
notice about a person is what his/her sex is.  This determines how we
relate to them, how we talk to them, our manners, potential courtship
rituals, status, and on and on.

Our society is simply not prepared to give up this basic
differentiation.  There is also, as Virginia Prince, has written, the
stigma of moving *down* rather than *up* in status when CD'd.  AS woman
who is wearing men's clothing societally increases her status.  A male
weraing female's clothing is doing the opposite.  That this is true is
awful, but a fact of our society and history.

Really, crossdressers need political clout, but do have to come out to
get it.  The difficulty is we seem to be one of the few groups it is
permissible to dump on.  In Toronto crossdressers were discouraged from
entering a float into the Gay Pride Day parade because of lesbian
dissent.  Gay men themselves often look down and are embarrased by
'queens', and, superficially, a CDer looks like a queen, though is
certainly not one.

As a TV there is a part of me that wants to come out.  Not so much to
dress in public as not to have to lie and be so blasted circumspect.
Also, I would, (as an old girl in my late 40's) like to be able to help
others who are younger and more confused.  The more publicity there is,
the more ordinary crossdressing becomes.  Who knows, maybe one day we
won't even be fodder for the talk shows.

Two final words.  First, Valerie, I don't think Russ' comment was intended as a
flame.  It's something I think about a lot, and I took his comments as
sincere.  (Benefit of the doubt?  {:-) )Second, I wish I could figure
out how to anon a followup [pouting].  I tried Micelle's method and it
didn't work.  I'm using 'nn' on a unix platform if that's helpful.



    Blessings,

    	    Shelley

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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an2967@anon.penet.fi (Tierney Dhewitrei)
Subject: is it the body or the brain?
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:40:00 GMT

I notice that most of us speak about being in the wrong body.
For me this is difficult to handle.  What seems to be more
plausable is that I'm in the correct body, my brain is just
confused.  I guess it's easier to think it is environment
rather then a mistake God made.  Now this is the view of a
CDer that has been CDing for 30+ years and has never attempted
to discuss it with a professional (psychologist or otherwize).
So what's the answer?  I know, if we knew that we would all be
either 'healed' or (what I would prefer) running around in our
favorite blouse and skirt when and where we please.  So, am I
the only one that feels this way, or are there others that
think that maybe it is a psychological problem and not a
physical one.  Am I reducing beyond the lowest common
denominator?

Smile, you know you're wearing pink panties and they don't.

hugs
Tierney

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Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 7 Jan 1993 00:48:30 EST
From: Straight into darkness <IO20557@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: Bogus theories... (Discovery, Jan '93)

Just my opinion as a psych major...
After taking a real cool physiological psychology class I learned a few
worthy tidbits. Sexual development (breasts, vagina, penis, facial hair...)
is all controlled by hormones, the genes merely dictate which hormones
are produced. While in the womb (before sexual development) the development
can be altered by hormone injections and so can sexual preference (I'll
check my notes to get more exact details) so there MAY be a physiological
factor affecting the determination of sexual gender role identity/sexual
preference.
Another thought is that its no more a matter of wrong body/brain than it
is for bondage fans. I mean, you enjoy it... you do it, same rationale
applies to anyone else who finds something sexually exciting other than
good ole vanilla sex.
I think its just sad that society dictates how everyone must look and act,
you cant c-dress publicly without being stigmatized just as I cant have
that red mohawk I always wanted (i dont cd myself...). Actually, I dressed
however I wanted (combat boots, tatoos, etc) for the first 4 yrs of
college but now interviews are coming and ive got to bludgeon myself into
conformity so i can get a job- it SUCKS! Other than around bosses and
co-workers however, you should feel free to dress however you want, I mean,
who really cares what the average dickhead on the street thinks? And if
they give you a hard time either sue...or better yet (if its some macho pig)
kick his ass and watch his ego die.
Anyway, enough babble. If anyone wants further info on sexual development
and preference studies just drop me a line.  -TC
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an4797@anon.penet.fi (Tina)
Subject: TS "community"
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:17:00 GMT


I suppose I should introduce myself, first. I'm a 31 year old post-op TS (6 
years), a staunch feminist, and firmly lesbian. I mess with computers for a 
company you have heard of. I'm tall, work out with weights, and generally 
come across as a sort of butchy-femme dyke. Though out as a dyke, I am not 
out as TS.

Which got me to thinking, with all the flap over TS presence at Michigan and 
at the March on Washington. There were articles in some of the gay papers 
last month about TS folks, with the idea that since we're encouraged to be 
secretive about ourselves, "TS Community" is almost an oxymoron. At one time 
I agreed, but now I'm not so sure. To be out as TS is messy, society is even 
weirder on the subject than it is about being gay. The answers? I don't 
know. There are some very public TSs, but I wonder at times if they are 
making a career of being professional talk show guests - how many times have 
you seen Caroline "Tula" Cossey on TV recently?

The answers? I'm not even sure of the *questions* at the moment. But I 
welcome discussion.

../Tina (as in the TS-played-by-GG character from "Law of Desire")

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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an4258@anon.penet.fi (dances-with-aardvarks.)
Subject: Re: Shopping 
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 06:26:34 GMT

Valerie here.

In my last article (don't have the message id back yet), I wrote:
>In general, I doubt that any retailer in San Francisco would have a
>problem with you trying/buying women's clothes (with the possible
>exception of an over-priced glitzy Union Square women's store).  San Jose
>is more conservative, but I still think getting thrown out is likely.
                                                              ^^
                                                I meant      UNlikely.


Valerie/dances-with-aardvarks                     an1845@anon.penet.fi
Subject to change without notice.


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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an299@anon.penet.fi (Judy)
Subject: Shops in San Francisco
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:44:26 GMT


>Anyone know of any specialty shops in the San Francisco, San Jose, or
>the SF South Bay area?  I've heard California is more open about this
>kind of thing. I will be traveling there soon.  It might be
>fun to do some shopping there!

Go down town San Francisco.  And just be bold.  No one notices 
too much.  It happens a lot.

Judy (|)

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From: wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us (Wendy)
Date: 7 Jan 93 05:17:42 GMT
Subject: Re: is it the body or the brain?
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Organization: Wendy's world
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

This is an interesting topic. I'm a Transexual in a gender transition
program. I have always believed I was in the wrong body. Someone played
a cruel joke on me!!! 

Now, whether it's biological or social, with me it would be hard to
say. My mother and aunt (her twin) treated and dressed me as a girl for
the first couple of years of my life.

Another pre-op that I know had parents that were just the opposite, 
treating her in a highly masculine way when she was a small boy. We
both have the same feelings, but were brought up in entirely different
ways. So maybe it's a combination.

Wendy
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an5328@anon.penet.fi (Shelley P.)
Subject: Julie
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:39:21 GMT

Best wishes and greetings to Julie.  Be well and of good cheer.  I
really hope you stay around, and that everything turns out well for you.

Noli illigitimo carburundum.

Hugs,
    Shelley

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From: russw@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: No Subject
Date: 7 Jan 1993 00:15:00 -0600
Organization: Great Northern Hotel
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan6.181938.16452@fuug.fi> an857@anon.penet.fi (Sasha) writes:
>	Also, some time back Tula Cossey 
>	was on Donahue and that was a VERY interesting program, wished
>	I'd taped that one!

Tula the TS model who's appeared in Playboy?  She appears on the
daytime tabloid shows pretty frequently, I think, because I've
seen her twice within the past year, and I don't watch them very
often.  (Honest!  Really!)

>	As a new years res, I decided to tell my wife about my needs/wants/
>	desires and she was not too receptive.

Bummer, sorry to hear that.  Perhaps time and discussion will help
her become more understanding; it's no doubt a big unexpected
revelation for her.

But congrats on making a courageous
resolution to be open, and following through.

>	it would be really nice to have a get-together of the group

Indeed.

Russ
From: daves@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Dave Stow)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Help! - support for Julie wanted
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:09:18 GMT
Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery

Over here in the UK we were sorry to learn that Julie Bell
tried to commit suicide over the Christmas break.

She is currently in hospital, and can't get to her email, so if you'd
like to send any messages of support/sympathy, I'll pass them on.

As she would say: 

*HUG*

Dave
a friend

--- daves@comp.lancs.ac.uk ----------------------------------------------------
| Will you still suck me,    | #include <std.disclaimer.h>                    |
| tie me up and fuck me?     |                             ** Beard rides **  |
| When I'm 64...             | Whisky, Sex and Blues...                       |
---------------------------------------------- B5(6.5) f- t- g+ k+ s+ e r p ---
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an4258@anon.penet.fi (dances-with-aardvarks.)
Subject: Corsets
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:46:26 GMT

Valerie here.

In message <1993Jan11.214710.6337@fuug.fi>,
an3344@anon.penet.fi (Joanna) writes:
>Any corset fans out there?

Me, me!  I have a custom-made B.R. Creations black cotton-backed satin
corset.  I love it.  [Un]fortunately, I need to order another one, because
I have lost weight.


Valerie/dances-with-aardvarks                   an4258@anon.penet.fi
Subject to change without notice.


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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an299@anon.penet.fi (Judy)
Subject: covering stubble
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:41:22 GMT



 
>I wonder if someone might be able to give me a little
>advice.  I'm looking for a good foundation cream or
>something like that which can cover facial stubble for a
>considerable number of hours.  I always try and
>have a good shave but naturally after a time the damned stuff 
>appears

The key to covering the beard is to shave properly first.  Soak
your face in a steaming hot gel for 10 minutes.  Shave twice with
a foaming gel.  Take it off slowly and carefully.  You don't need
niks.

The key to making it not look like a cover up is to not cover
up!  Get some Cover Mark or under ele make up and spread just 
a couple of dabs at the Fred Flintsone line (where the beardline
starts).  Spread it as thin as you can into the beard area
blending with the non bearded area.  Cover with one of the 
Loreal make ups that match your skin color.  Top it off with
your favorite powder.  Don't use a lot of make up!  It only
accentuates the maleness of your skin.  Remember shave close,
apply make up sparingly.  You should be able to get through
several hours with a proper preparation.

Judy (|)

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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered