HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: craig@smo.ac.uk (Craig Cockburn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Crimmond
Date: 18 Dec 92 06:25:44 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England


In article <1992Dec17.172442.13459@news.clarkson.edu>, walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes...

>The tune is named after a small village in the NE of Scotland of the
>same name. Also this is the village were Edward Griegs grandparents came
>from; I believe the changed their name from Greig (ei being pronounced
>as the e in egg) to Grieg (ie being pronounced as the ee in keep); alos
>I know the spelling of the names is probably wrong but the pronouncation
>is right.
> 

Are you sure there's no connection with the song "Cumha Mhic Criomain"
= MacCrimmon's lament. I think this song can be sung to the 23rd Psalm.
This song is a lament to one of the legendary MacCrimmon pipers from Skye.
The song is very well known and is in many books, including "Orain nan
Gaidheal" by Bruce Campbell (published by Gairm, Glasgow)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: craig@smo.ac.uk                                        leis
  Voice: +[44] 734 580597                                          a'
  Views here are mine,                                             Gha\idhlig!
     and are not necessarily those of Digital or any other organisation
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: dwilkins@maths.tcd.ie (David Wilkins)
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:57:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.173447.24844@cs.tcd.ie> riordanm@cs.tcd.ie (Mark Riordan) writes:
>Presumably the wealth transferred from Ireland to Britain during
>British Rule has gone on to generate further wealth, jobs, investment,
>etc. in Britain while its absence has had a negative effect here.

It should be remembered in this regard that the British upper
class, the ones who would have benefited from rents paid
in Ireland, turned up their noses at wealth derived from
`trade' or `manufactures'.  An acquaintance with the 19th
century English novel from Jane Austen to Anthony Trollope
and George Eliot indicates much of the manner in which
the income of this class was spent or squandered: domestic
servants, horses, horse-drawn carriages (apparently expensive
to run), hospitality, parties, election expenses, wine,
club subscriptions.  Any residue remaining would have
been ploughed into acquiring land in England, or in
the purchase of Government securities (Consols).

Moreover those reliant on Irish rents were comparatively
impoverished (see for example Lord Fawn, in `The Eustace
Diamonds', by Anthony Trollope).  It should be remembered
that there was little or no incentive for Irish tenants
to improve their land, since this would lead to an increase
in the rent.  Therefore the land was farmed uneconomically.
Substantial wealth derived from estates in England.

DRW
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scotland Demands Democracy!
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:47:43 GMT
	<1992Dec15.153439.29505@news.clarkson.edu>
	<1992Dec16.095239.24512@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1992Dec16.095239.24512@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:

   "Disenfranchised" means "denied a vote". Scotland has not been
   disenfranchised, in fact it has a rather generous entitlement
   of MPs. The problem is that for the past 13 years, the whole of
   the UK has elected a majority of Conservative MPs (hasn't cast
   a majority of Conservative votes though), which have outweighed
   the fact that Scotland has elected a majority of Labour MPs.

   Would it be correct to say that a state in the USA which
   carried on voting Democrat while outvoted by other states
   which voted Republican was "disenfranchised"?

No, because States have state assemblies, don't they, and state laws, and
state taxes and so on.  Scotland has no state assembly - no democratic body,
elected by Scottish voters, controls any aspects of the government of
Scotland.  Unless you count the castrated local councils, of course, but
that's hardly the same thing.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: sdr57@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:22:30 GMT

From chemabs!malgudi.oar.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!gatech!hubcap!ncrcae!ncrhub2!ncrlnk!ciss!law7!military Fri Dec 18 13:19:26 EST 1992
Article: 23409 of sci.military
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: sdr57@cas.org
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:29:08 GMT


>From sdr57@cas.org


In article <Bz06vI.F0M@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, Tom Oates <th2_oate@csd.uwe-bristol.ac.uk> writes:
|> From Tom Oates <th2_oate@csd.uwe-bristol.ac.uk>
|> >In article <1992Dec3.223156.23027@news.nd.edu> ulick@gershwin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
			...
|> >seems to be to maximise disruption with minimum injury.  So set small bombs,
|> >give a very general, relatively short warning ...                  ^^^^^^^^^^^
|> The bombs detonated in Manchester weighed approx 2 pounds. The explosive
|> used was Semtex-H.
|>     ... comment on whether a 2lb slab of Semtex could do much
|> more than make people's windows rattle.

I don't have specific information on the relative effectiveness
of Semtex-H (I left all that stuff behind when I left the
service - for those curious, relative effectiveness is measured
relative to TNT = 1), but, in general, it is safe to presume
that a plastic explosive will have a relative effectiveness
somewhere between 2-3 times that of commercially available
dynamite, which I choose for comparison because dynamite is
known more widely than most other explosives. This means that
2 pounds of plastic explosive is the rough equivalent of 8-12
sticks of dynamite.

Whether or not this would do more than make windows rattle
depends, of course, on how far away from the explosion the
windows are. The (US) Army regards the "minimum safe distance"
for a charge of the above strength to be 900 feet or 274 meters
when the charge is placed on bare ground (from FM 5-25, Explosives
and Demolitions).

(This doesn't mean that if you are at 899 feet you will die -
you can be considerably closer than this and survive, and under
freakish conditions you might be injured at greater distances -
the primary hazard here is from projectiles propelled by the blast,
not concussion. Blasts are fairly unpredictable under any but ideal
conditions, and may leave a person a few feet away from the blast
unharmed but for ringing ears while killing someone else hundreds
of feet away - this is not as likely with plastique, which produces
a very uniform detonation front, as it was with earlier explosives,
but it can happen.)

******************************************************************************
Renegade academician. They're a dangerous breed when they go feral,
academics are...a chemist, too.
		    -(James P. Blaylock in "Lord Kelvin's Machine")

My organization hasn't agreed with any of my opinions so far, and
I doubt they'll start now.

Stanley Roberts




Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:51:43 GMT

In article <SINEAD.92Dec11110852@kenbisi.osaki.ssl.fujitsu.co.jp>,
sinead@osaki.ssl.fujitsu.co.jp (Sinead) writes:

|>holly writes :
|>> 	I realize this subject usually evokes nothing but diatribe, but
|>> can any of you discuss this with a bit of real info, and some grasp
|>> of the history of the movement? Oates' view of the IRA as a bunch of
|>> highly competent killers is in contradiction with the view I'd come
|>> to hold based on the news I receive on this side of the Atlantic. 
|>> They just aren't known here for competence.
|>
|>
|>holly the IRA is a well structured highly competent organisation. The
|>chain of command i believe is different than in a typical army 
|>structure which makes it difficult for the british forces to monitor
|>it. They have very specialised divisions whose members are very
|>carefully choosen. These divisions include 
|>   : target planning (whose members specialise in finding "effective"
|>targets.
|>   : weapon aquisition (who specialise in importing weapons).
|>   : weapon transport. They have a special section that specialises
|>in getting the weapons across to england and then to whichever city
|>they are targeting.
|>   : they have a special group whose "job" it is to identify informers
|>within their organisation. Each section has little or no communication
|>with another which gives then better security.
|>   : fund raising. like already stated contributions from the US are
|>not financing the IRA. The IRA are a multi million pound organisation.
|>Most of their money comes from night clubs, pubs and even taxis.
|>   : they have a division that specialises in "designing" explosives.
|>The standard of some of their so called "home made booms" has 
|>"impressed" (for want of a better word) british boom experts. 
|>
|>i don't know where you are getting your information that the IRA are
|>incompetant but i think it's a very false image.

Perhaps the IRA could form a division for listening to all the people who are
sick of the bunch of murdering thugs.


--

Phill Hallam-Baker
From: mckeonj@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Concerts in Dublin at X-MAS (yeughhh)
Date: 16 Dec 92 09:45:06 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

In article <1992Dec10.005905.23441@spock.retix.com>, jk@spock.retix.com (John Keegan) writes:
> Could someone in Ireland please list 'what's on' this Christmas.
Please do not use X-MAS in a Celtic context. I suggest that
.MAS (for H-MAS) would be more appropriate, since X actually
represents the Greek CHI, and Celtic equivalent would be H,
usually written as superscript dot.
Thanx
-- 
"If England sleeps, shall Ireland dream?" : Se/an macEoin
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John McKeon, Material Science Dept. University of Limerick, Ireland
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8142 soc.culture.british:17495
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:50:21 GMT
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Organization: N.I.C.E.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

David Wilkins writes:
>You have to establish that people in Britain today really are
>deriving benefit actions in the past, or from present day
[1]
>injustice, before you can talk in terms of grievance and reparation.

[rest of interesting posting deleted]
I expected someone to post something like this in response --
it's pleasing to see such a reasonable & well-thot out posting.
But unfortunately, there's a fundamental error in the logic that
I must point out:  this article is based on "NET" benefit.
This is not so good -- any benefit from exploitation is usually
grounds for grievance & reparation, regardless of how the total costs
work out.  Think about it.  If a bandit steals money from a bank,
but trips on the stairs on the way out & breaks his leg, we don't
excuse the crime.

----
[1] Of course these are still not the *only* conditions under which
grievances can be established -- I should've made clear that this
was only an additional example that sprang to mind.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Re: What is sago?
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:39:07 GMT

The following proposals have been made as to the nature of sago	
It's got so confused I can't work out who said what so all that stuff has 
been eliminated.

Theory 1 (wrong)
: >> Though my dictionary says otherwise, I've always heard
: >> it's the same thing as semolina...
: >

Theory 2 (might be right, can't tell from the description)
: >Sago is the suff with the "balls" in it, while semolina is much
: >smoother.
: 

Theory 3 (balls, to coin a phrase)
: Tapioca is the stuff with the balls in it.  Sago is smooth,
: just like semolina!

Dictionary definition (Collins)
SAGO a starchy cereal obtained from the powdered pith of a palm (sago palm)
used for puddings and as a thickening agent. [C16 from Malay: sagu]

TAPIOCA a beadlike starch obtained from the cassava root, used in cooking
as a thickening agent, esp in puddings [C18 via Port. form Tupi tipioca,
pressed out juice. Tupi is a S.Am language]

SEMOLINA The large hard grains  of wheat left after the flou has been
bolted, used for puddings, soups etc. [C18 from It semolino, dim of semola
bran. . .]

IE one is S.E. ASian, one is S. American, one is European. ALl used as
thickening agents. Semolina IS smooth. It would be much easier to confuse
sago and tapioca - both of which we used to call "frog's spawn" at school
- and hated 'cos of the  way it was cooked. Now down here, in the Malay
world. . . ah it's different. Sago is made into a thick pudding, covered
with coconut milk (not the feeble water stuff, but the juice pressed out
of the white meat of the coconut) and liquid brown sugar. Delicious, but
it  makes you fat and gives you heart attacks (coconut milk is
unbelievably high in chloresterol)
	Intersting they'd be using SAGO in the Orkneys [BTW there's an
almost hagiographic article about Orcadian booze in this Saturday's
weekend	section of the FT - but more scathing about the food]
	Have you tried rec.food.historic?

Richard Pennell, History NUS
From: rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: What is sago?
Keywords: yum, yum.
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:30:40 GMT
Organization: Dundee University

Sago - vulgur form "frogs' spawn" - is one of those nice glutinous
round pellets which comes as a dried little nodule and cooks into
stuff that, well, looks like frogs' spawn. Delicious!
I think it is processed from the centre of a tropical fruit like the
manioc - perhaps one of those delightfull south-american foods that
must have the poison beaten and washed out before edible. Who on earth
first worked out that food like that was safe to eat? Sago is larger than 
tapioca (which is also cooked as a pudding in Orkney/ Shetland/ Scotland)
which in turn is larger than semolina (or cream of wheat, I think).
All come from the medeaival traditions of the british gloop - or porridge
or soppans - and are nowadays regarded as quaint, 'nursery' foods. The
victorians dressed up the various grain-like dishes with oddles of
eggs and cream and vanilla and sugar, often producing cold 'shapes'
with them. (See also blamange...or cornflower desserts). A good source
of info on sago and the above would be Fanny Farmer's Boston Cookbook,
Raey Tannahill's "Food through History", early editions of Mrs Beaton,
Adel wotshername's "Lets eat well to get well" series.
The earlier dishes consisted of grains that swelled on cooking and were
eaten at all times of the day, often laced with honey, milk, dried
fruit - and strangley - dried pulses. These dishes also feature in
countries that have mongolian peoples - from Turkey across to India -
which implies some type of common economic lifestyle rather than racial
transmissions.
Interestingly enough both Shetland and Orkney retain foods and eating
habbits that have disappeared in the rest of britain - for example they
tend to have HUGE lunches called dinners, and little 'teas' followed by 
a bite to eat at the real supper time of 10:00pm consisting of big
water biscuits and local cheese and baking - yum, yum. Also they still
dry fish and mutton for keeping and do things to fish no mainlander
can face with equinimity - see Alan Davidson on North Atlantic fish
cooking, Penguin books.
From: sinead@osaki.ssl.fujitsu.co.jp (Sinead)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Could someone post the latest results in the election.
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:36:32 GMT
	<SINEAD.92Dec10103214@kenbisi.osaki.ssl.fujitsu.co.jp>
	<1992Dec11.172301.14103@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
Distribution: soc
Organization: Fujitsu SSL, Osaki, Japan
In-reply-to: mh10006@cl.cam.ac.uk's message of 11 Dec 92 17:23:01 GMT


|> In article <SINEAD.92Dec10103214@kenbisi.osaki.ssl.fujitsu.co.jp>,
sinead@osaki.ssl.fujitsu.co.jp
(Sinead),1992Dec8.182608.2891@infodev.cam.ac.uk(Mark Humphrys) writes:

|> |> (even in a case where the life of the mother is at risk) we
|> |>  will not allow abortion in ireland but will allow anyone
|> |> who wants it to get it elsewhere.

|> Well that's been the traditional position in Ireland

....... has it ? i'm not an authority on the subject (as
you've probably noticed) but i thought the 1986(?) amendment
stated that it was illegal to go and get an abortion abroad,
maybe not in those specific words but that all would be done
to protect the life of the fetus (thus the trouble with
 the "X" case).....

    [ stuff deleted]
|> The unexpected Supreme Court decision legalised abortion in Ireland,
|> and last month's vote was to roll back that decision.
|> So naturally pro-choice voters voted 'No'.
|> The firmly anti-abortion voters also voted 'No', on the grounds that
|> it wasn't rolled back to absolute zero.

........ i thought the wording was simply just to save the life
of the child over the life of the mother, i forgot the clause
of "as distinct from the health".   ........... i can't understand
how a government could put forward such an obviously dead-end
proposal.     ......... think of all the "brain power" that
went into making it.

anyway, thanks for clearing up a few things for me.

   _
sinead.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8288 soc.culture.british:17762
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,uk.politics
Subject: Re: UK unemployment figures
Date: 18 Dec 92 11:24:26 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1992Dec18.094255.21415@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:

   Now arguing from these figures, and even forgetting the huge
   amount of personal debt suffered by people in the south-east
   and the fact that housing costs are still much higher there,
   can we still hear from all those people who are perpetually
   saying what a privileged place south-east England is, how
   deprived Scotland is, how the Tory party is the "South-east
   England Nationalist party" etc.

Well, let's not forget the decades of emigration to the south-east of England
from the poorer parts of the UK.  That "south east" unemployment figure must
include hundreds of thousands of such emigrants.  Scottish unemployment never
gets particularly high because so many people leave the country to find a job.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scots Wha Hae lyrics
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:45:00 GMT
Organization: Dundee University

Though I do not find the above sexist - or the idea of fighting
for liberty a bad thing my suggestion for a 'national' anthem -
given that nations are anathma to me - would be Hamish Henderson's
Freedom Come All Ye - discussed at some length on this group earlier
this year.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: British interference in U.S. elections
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:49:49 GMT

In article <JIM.92Dec11164512@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk> jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) writes:
>In article <1992Dec9.171222.4182@cas.org> jac54@cas.org writes:
>
>  The CIA maintains that it has never operated within the UK (vide supra).
>
>I find it very hard to believe that the CIA would make such a
>statement, or that anyone would believe it. I guess it all depends on
>the definition of operate. If it means operate as the CIA has operated
>in Cuba or Nicaragua or Chile, then the CIA has not operated in the UK.
>
>However, it would be very surprising if the CIA did not have officers
>"liaising" with their counterparts in the British Security Services.

	This is exactly what they do.  In essence they contract out
	to the British Services.  The general understanding is that
	collaboration is so complete that independent operations
	would be a waste of time and money.

>It would be astonishing if the CIA did not monitor the activities of a
>major arms exporter: the UK. It would be unlikely that CIA staff don't
>get involved in the activities of GCHQ or the NSA bases in the UK, or
>the various US military/intelligence bases in the UK. As a major
>financial and international centre, it would be incredible if the CIA
>did not have people in London keeping an eye on whatever the US
>government considered was of interest to it.

	Well put.  I think it was Duncan Campbell found out (through
	the FOIA) that the U.S. military has some 105 installations
	in the U.K. (HMG wouldn't tell) most of which are listening
	posts and similar installations.  The "take" from these goes back
	to the U.S. and then the U.K. gets sent its share.  So any
	operations are with the knowledge and consent of HMG (as if
	they would ever tell).
>
>It would be surprising if any embassy in any country did not have at
>least one official who was attached to the nation's intelligence service.
>
	They have a very large residency in Grosvenor Square, it's above
	the door you go in one side for visa applications.

	Alec
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scottish Kings and Queens
From: phys218@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:37:58 GMT
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

Graham Walker asked, "Wern't all of thes Alasdairs Alexanders?"

Yes, that's the English name that they're given, just as the Conns are
all called "Constantine" in English.  While I'm sure that "Conn" is an
old Irish name (Conn of the Hundred Battles and all that), so that
"Constantine" is just an arbitrary translation, for all that I know,
"Alasdair" may be a Gaelicised form of "Alexander".

From the time that the anglicised family of Malcom III and his second
wife, beginning with Edmund, displaced the old Gaelic/Norse order
represented by MacBeth, Domnull Ba\n (Donald III), and Duncan II
(Malcolm III's son by his first marriage), the court must have been
increasingly English-speaking.  Very likely the Alasdairs all called
themselves "Alexander" when at home and "Alasdair" when (finally
successfully) trying to secure acceptance of their rule in the west.
And king Uilleam (William the Lion) must have owed his name to the
Norman influence from the south.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lyndon Watson                              L.Watson@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8325 soc.culture.british:17840