HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Subject:      Conditional MFN Bill, S2808, passed in the Senate
Reply-To: "Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:43:18 GMT
Comments: To: Dennis.D.Lee@Eng.Sun.COM, donovan@csl.sri.com,
              hknet@cs.wisc.edu, ho@mips.com,
              ifcss%WAM.UMD.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu,
              joseph_ng%5y@hp0200.desk.hp.com, jung_lin%40@hp1900.desk.hp.COM,
              sdc@longhorn.Corp.sun.com, ggach@pandora.sf.ca.us,
              xwu@janus.Berkeley.EDU, cnd-editor@sdsc.edu,
              melody@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com, jchu@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com,
              wuling@s1.msi.umn.edu, li@perry.berkeley.edu,
              jyee@eclair.berkeley.edu, Isaac.Chen@Eng.Sun.COM,
              ide!ide.com!cai@uunet.UU.NET, wwang@mail1.cis.umn.edu,
              china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu, ting_s_wu@ccnf.hf.intel.com,
              nguyen@drutx.att.com, china@diva.berkeley.edu

The U.S. Senate has passed bill S2808, attaching human rights conditions to the
renewal of the Most-Favored-Nation trade status for China, by voice vote on
Monday, September 14, 1992.  The bill now goes to the conference to reconcile
the difference between S2808 and its sister bill in the House, HR5318, before
the final conference report for the two bills to be voted on by both houses
again.

Since there are only limited differences between the two bills, the conferees
are expected to have no difficulty to finalize its report shortly.  There are
only 14 working days left before the Congress recesses for the year.  It is not
clear whether or not the Congress will attempt to pass this legislation before
or on September 21st to avoid a potential pocket veto by President Bush.
Negative sentiment towards CCP in the U.S. Congress runs all time high for
various reasons since the 1989 Tian'anmen Square Massacre.  And, President Bush
is under tremendous pressure to reshape his own policies on foreign and
domestic affairs as an underdog candidate for the White House.	The final
outcome of the conditional M-F-N bills is somewhat uncertain.


Ignatius Ding
SVDC Communications
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: JCCE@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU
Subject:      Re: Coup Rumors in USSR
Reply-To: JCCE@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 04:58:00 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

I found the posting about a potential coup in Russia very
interesting.  You may know that I am working to organize a
university speaking tour for Mr. Nikolai Ryzhkov, former USSR Prime
Minister.  While I was in Russia this past June I discussed the
scheduling of a U.S. tour with Mr. Ryzhkov.  I originally proposed
January/February for his tour.  Mr. Ryzhkov rejected this proposal
and insisted on October/November.  His reasoning was that he needed
to be in Russia in the early part of 1993 because everyone expected
the government to fall about that time.  He did not indicate that
a coup was in the offing, but was suggesting that many people
believe economic factors alone will generate a political crisis and
possibly topple the Yeltsin government.  He seemed not to know who
would rush to fill the power vacuum or what the outcome of such a
crisis would be, but he wanted to be available to help pick up the
pieces should the crisis materialize.  I know we will all be
watching to see what new trials and tribulations await the people
of Russia in the coming months.

During my trip to Russia I was hosted by a Marine Corps colonel in
Sevastapol, Crimea.  While the officers were very reserved with
their comments, I received mixed signals from other retired
military officers and civilians.  Resentment of the compounding
hardships was growing day by day in Crimea and the Kransodar
region.  While I was there the exchange rate was just over 100
rubles per dollar.  Three months later it is now 225 rubles per
dollar.  If domestic prices are growing at this rate then I am not
sure how much more the people can take before demanding relief.
They seemed extremely frustrated in June.  I can only suspect that
they are even more angry now.

On the bright side, it seems that privatization is now being
implemented in the provinces.  During the past week, my three
Russian interns have asked me to help them produce notarized
affidavits which they can send to their families.  Their families
will use these documents in their petitions to claim property
rights on their apartments and other holdings.  Perhaps this first
taste of private ownership will cause the people to take hope and
persevere.  We shall see.

John Capece
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re: Shameful Speculations
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:05:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.004217.25180@athena.mit.edu> liu9yong@athena.mit.edu () writes:
>
>Haven't we agreed on that if 89 had been better planned, it would have produced
>better results? Well, it is to this end (what will result) that I am qestioning
>ST's act.

History cannot be changed. The 89 Beijing Massacre is a fact now.
Hundreds, perhaps thousands of people have already died. It may become
one of the biggest cause of China's disturbance in the future (after
Deng Xiaoping's death, perhaps).

I think you cannot blame people. At least, it is not people who massacred
government officials, but the opposite. This government is dead in the
sense of moral standard. Some of them are crminals.

Shen Tong's act is still peaceful. I don't think he is crossing any
violence line. Do we still want to say the truth? I think Shen Tong's
act is nothing more than an honest expression.

I don't know how to judge a boundary, but I do think I am not on the side
of the Chinese government. I don't have feeling for them. I think China
is and will be in deep trouble at the hand of current Chinese government.
The world views China as the only communist country in the world. Communist
has very bad reputation in modern world, and too in the heart of Chinese
people.

The best in China: Olympic gold medalists;
The worst in China: Communist government.

>I really don't see a clear (good) purposes of it and would like to be 
>enlightened.

I think he has no specific purpose except to say something he thought
is right. It is for this reason I think Shen Tong is not guilty.
From: zhuh@athena.mit.edu (Hui Zhu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re:      Re: someone who sounds funny
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:30:22 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <Bu9xpv.9M@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep4.013932.28039@athena.mit.edu> zhuh@athena.mit.edu (Hui Zhu) writes:
|> 
|> >By making rumor against rival? :) give me a break.
|> 
|> 
|> >Did I make any rumor or personal attack against anyone? :)
|> 
|> It does not make you any better.
|> 
|> 


oops, may be I should do as you did. :)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 23:37:08 EDT
From: <ZQH@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Remember Nazi and CCP's propaganda (Was Re: Whose fault is it anyway?

In <Bu2rDt.52K@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
"Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM> writes:
>From: plowe@falcore.synoptics.com (Patricia Lowe)
>The Chinese government has shown even more how little it cares for world
>opinion by its continued sales of weapons to Iraq
>and many volatile Middle East
>and African countries with terrorist tendencies;
>despite worldwide condemnation and outcry.
>

Has any of those countries gotten nuclear bombs?  Do you have
anything at all to substantiate your claim of `its continued
sales of weapons to Iraq'?

(BTW, is Ms. Patricia Lowe from Taiwan?  I know some TIers
 change their last name and spread rumors everywhere).

I hate to defend the CCP but I am really pissed off that
someone deliberately use misinformation to mislead public.
That's just like the Nazi or CCP's propaganda.

I don't have time and desire to explain the relationship
between the economic development and democracy development
here.  After all, it's useless to someone who hates China
and just uses the human right as their figleaf for their
ulterior motives.

James Huang
From: jzhang@sdcc3.UCSD.EDU
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Meeting Professor Wen Yuankai at Pasadena
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:06:24 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

A few of us visited Professor Wen Yuankai at Pasadena, who came to 
California Institute of Technology for research in molecular modeling
about two weeks ago. Professor Wen is planning to work there for about 
six months or longer. He appreciates the help from USTC alumni 
for petitioning to USTC and the State Education Commission on
his behalf.

When asked about his impression of the general situation at home, 
he said that the economic reform in China this year is presenting
a golden opportunity, driven by an economic boom unprecedent in the 
last ten years. He believes that Chinese intellectuals should participate
more in business development, to accumulate economic strengths and 
resources, rather than indulge in "empty talks (Qing1 Tan2)".  
About the prospect of political reform, he emphasizes a long-term view.
He speaks highly of the significance that a few well-known China-based
scholars such as Yu Hao-cheng and Guo Luoji have joined the overseas
organization "Human Rights in China", which implies a low-profile,
but de facto and legitimate, presence of dissident organization in China.  

Professor Wen is planning to give a talk about business opportunity in
China at the upcoming opening ceremony of the California Chapter of 
Association of Chinese Professionals, to be held in Santa Barbara, 
September 26-27.

Zhenqin Li
jzhang@sdcc3.ucsd.edu
From: cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Rename this news group
Date: 7 Sep 92 21:23:20 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI

According to the type of most posts in this news group, I suggest 
it should be renamed as 'misc.china.visa' or 'misc.china.lobby', or
'misc.china.conference'. Any comment ?

Yi-Chieh
From: zhuh@athena.mit.edu (Hui Zhu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: response to Mr. W. Dong and Mr. T. Bao's comments
Date: 5 Sep 92 18:17:38 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep4.160220.16352@cs.brown.edu>, ylq@lems23lems.brown.edu (Yan Shen) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep4.014949.28719@athena.mit.edu>, zhuh@athena.mit.edu (Hui Zhu) writes:
|> |> |> 
|> |> |> |> What's the hell reasons should we keep the same Constitution for more than 200 years?
|> |> |> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> |> |> |> or even more?  You want the Constitutions of Qing dynasty or Mingguo? They are
|> |> |> |> really old though. :) :)
|> |> |> |> 
|> |> |> 
|> |> |> It prevents any politican from thinking that he is above the constitution and the 
|> |> |> law. Is this the fundamental difference ?
|> |> 
|> |> 
|> |> Really? Why?  
|> Deng XiaoPing can change the Constitution of China overnight if he wants. G. Bush 
|> cann't. 

You failed to answer my question:  why an 200 yrs. old constitution "prevent any 
politician from thinking taht he is above the constitution and the law"?
After all who are talking about how to change the constitutions?

The fact is: You can have whatever (old) law, but if you donot want to obey it, such as
ST, who view himself above China's law as a "son" of Uncle Sam, the law is simply
a piece of paper.  Though as a "son" of Uncle Sam may not works this time. :) 

Don't just accuse DXP violate the laws. He did and should be punished accordingly.
Those D guys do the same. However, they can always claim the law is NOT theirs and
then they are NOT guilty. :)

The fact is Chinese PB Has the right to detain ST for questioning this time.


|> |>So keep the Constitution of Qing or Mingguo will make this
|> 			^^^^^^^^^^^
|> |> "fundamental difference"? :)
|> Are you talking about the Constitution which could be overhauled by a three-year-
|> old while he was pissing. 

It is you who are crying for a 200  years old Constitution, isn't it? :)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Thanx for the answers to the questions, y'all!
Date: 11 Sep 1992 03:30:58 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tempest.berkeley.edu


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: John Cornett <library@SUNSPOT.SUNSPOT.NOAO.EDU>
Subject:      Modern Economy, Democratic Principles
Reply-To: John Cornett <library@SUNSPOT.SUNSPOT.NOAO.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 15:47:24 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

                Modern Economy, Democratic Principles

I am heartened to see William Deng's last article, this is food for thought.
If all hope for both economic prosperity and democratic principles:

1) Should democratic principles come first, then modern economy follow?
2) Should modern economy come first, then democratic principles follow?
3) Should modern economy and democratic principles move forward together?

My personal view is, the modern economy and the democratic principles can make
an excellent team, moving forward in tandem, according to an analogy we have
seen lately in Olympic bicycle races.

The modern economy could move first, and "break the wind", with the good
democratic principles-- the more open expression, free thought, and the
"marketplace of ideas", following right behind, in its wake.

The modern economy can shelter the democratic principles if it is in front,
while it is crucial that the democratic principles follow very close, to take
advantage of the wake made by the strong economy.

In the end, it will be the "marketplace of ideas" which gives the society
victory. This is what makes it pre-eminent, ahead of the others, and the
"model" for others to follow. That is why it is sheltered, because it is
the key to true greatness.

John Cornett
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: IFCSS HQ <ifcss@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      IFCSS HQ NR-4018: MFN
Reply-To: IFCSS HQ <ifcss@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:31:10 GMT
Comments: To: ccnl@utarlvm1.uta.edu, china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

**************************************************************
IFCSS Headquarters News Release No. 4018    September 15, 1992
                MFN BILL PASSED SENATE
**************************************************************
Independent Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars (IFCSS)
   733 15th Street, N.W., Suite 440, Washington, D.C.20005
         Tel. (202)347-0017  Fax: (202)347-0018
                Email: ifcss@wam.umd.edu


                MFN Bill Passed Senate
                ======================

     On Monday, September 14, the Senate passed a bill placing
conditions on the renewal of China's most favored nations
status. Since the bill has passed the House earlier, it will
be sent to President Bush who will likely veto the bill.

     In another event related to China, a congressional commission
recommended on September 14 that the United States create a new
radio network that would broadcast daily news to China and other
Asian nations under totalitarian governments.

     On the protection bill, no definite date has been set for
the Senate to consider the bill, but like in the House, the
Senate may pick up the bill at any time. There was a possibility
in last week, but a Senator died and legislative activities
in the Senate was suspended last Friday. We believe that between
today and this Friday, the bill will be picked up by the
Senate.




***************************************************************
         IFCSS Headquarters Office    Signature
***************************************************************
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Help Needed for Microsoft Word
From: <LOVBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 9 Sep 1992 09:10:00 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Did you get the original copy of MS Word? or you just simple copy the program
out of some PC? of so, this might be the problem.
On the other hand, you can try to post your question in Windows news group. I
think the people out there can help you better.
From: 60968893@WSUVM1.BITNET (JIM CHENG)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: mail doubled.
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:00:43 GMT
Reply-To: JIM CHENG <60968893@WSUVM1.BITNET>
Organization: Indiana University

Dear Net Manager,
I am always getting two repeated mail everytime. Please delete one of them
and just make sure only one mail is delivered to me for every mail you
distribute. Thank you.
Jim, WSU
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: YANPEI DENG <YD2@ORNLSTC.BITNET>
Subject:      East Tennessee Chinese Association
Reply-To: YANPEI DENG <YD2@ORNLSTC.BITNET>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:46:00 GMT

        On Friday, September 11,  a group of CSS, mainly working at the Oak
Ridge National Laboratory and the companies in nearby cites of Knoxville
metropolitan area, got together to celebrate the traditional Chinese Holiday,
Moon Festival.  Fifty some people showed up, first time ever, and everyone
had very good time, indeed!

        During the party, a new organization representing CSS from this area,
East Tennessee Chinese Association (temporary name), formed, and
members of the board of ETCA were recommended by the ones who
attended the party and approved by the voice vote.  The members of
the board are:

        Dr. Yanpei Deng
        Bldg. 4500 S, MS 6119
        Chemistry Division
        Oak Ridge National Laboratory
        YD2@STC10.CTD.ORNL.GOV

        Dr. Xun-Li Wang
        Bldg. 4515, MS 6064
        Metal and Ceramics Division
        Oak Ridge National Laboratory
        XWL1@XRDVAX.MS.ORNL.GOV

        Dr. Zhonglin Wang
        Bldg. 5500, MS 6376
        Metal and Ceramics Division
        Oak Ridge National Laboratory
        ZLN@STC10.CTD.ORNL.GOV.


The U.S. mail address should add

        P.O. Box 2008
        Oak Ridge,  TN  37831

to the addresses above.

        Should anyone comes to work or study in this area in the future,
please contact the persons listed above in case any information, such as
housing etc., is needed.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: J0L9320@TAMVENUS.BITNET
Subject:      Information and Newsletter Exchange
Reply-To: J0L9320@TAMVENUS.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:14:00 GMT

Howdy!
Just like "Ren Jian Zhi Nan", the "Texas A & M China Club Newsletter" would like
 to invite you to join our INS (Inter-Campus Newsletter Service) program.

The Service program is very simple--Set up a directory (mailing list) of the par
ticipating newsletters.

To participate, just send your address, name of the newsletter to the following
Email Address: j0l9320@tamvenus.bitnet  or j0l9320@venus.tamu.edu

                                        Jean Jin Lu (I)
                                        Editor, Texas A&M China Club Newsletter
=======================================
The best "newsletter" should be the one
which people like to read in rest rooms.
                -----Ge You
                -----Lu liping
=======================================
From: txt15@po.CWRU.Edu (Tao Tao)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: S1216 Bill
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:35:50 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


I don't think lobby the congress would have any effects on the administration.
This is a good piece of evidence that we are just the chips in political
bargainings in U.S.  For this reason, it would be better if Bush is replaced
this time.

As the selling of F-16, I don't think that's a big deal.  My impression is that
the longer the present status is maintained the better it will be for both s
sides.  Peaceful competition and evolution would be the best solution, it would 
be true should the current unofficial contact be maintained and even improved.

This peace, delicate one, will be maintained only if the two sides are equal
in their status, both military and economic.  CCP government's recent purchase
of ex-CCCP's carrier would shift the present balance, even though the main
purpose is to safeguard the south china sea.

The potential problem does not come from Taiwan, instead, it will come from
Xinjian and Xizang.  The one being neglected is Xinjiang.  Maybe, the netters
should discuss a little bit more on this.

Tao
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: xpeng@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Whose fault is it anyway?
Reply-To: xpeng@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 21:34:14 GMT
Comments: cc: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

Dave Sheng did make very good points in his article.  He objectively presented
the argument.  However, the example cited is sort of too artificial.


>Ask a x-USSR citizen, when one could hardly feed
>himself, how much does freedom of expression mean?    -- D.Sheng --

May I present another example for comparision?

A man is fed perfectly.  But he is banned to speak his mind.  He is banned
to express his dislike or like, his love or hate.  What does the feeding mean
to that person?

In this not ideal word some people may like feed well more than
freedom of spirit and some pelple may like the freedom of spirit more
than feed well.  I guess most people like both.  I don't think it is
logic to put the tag of freedom of spirit on the "good feeding" for
sell.  It is especially irritating to see Chinese Government to use
feeding as an excuse to deny my other fellow Chinese's basic right
such as freedom of expression.

The other countries already showed people can have both.  How to get
there for Chinese people.  One way is to restrict Chinese people in
the path of looking for food only until some threshold then some CSS here will
suggest to CG that now it's the time to give the freedom to Chinese people.
Another way is allow the people not only to looking for the food but also allow
them to discover the world (including a better structure of the government)
with the freedom of spirit.  I do prefer the latter approach.

Like Dave Sheng I may be biased, too.

Xiao-Cong Peng
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Hongjuan Wang <hjwang@ENGIN.UMICH.EDU>
Subject:      signoff
Reply-To: Hongjuan Wang <hjwang@ENGIN.UMICH.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 18:56:20 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

Please sign me off
From: xu-dennis@CS.YALE.EDU (dennis xu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture,talk.politics.china,yale.chinese,yale.forum
Subject: A lecture on today's economic reform in China by Wen Yuan-Kai at Yale
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:57:32 GMT
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158

**************************************************************************

                        Yale China Forum

                           PRESENTS

        A Special Lecture on Economic Reform in Today's China

**************************************************************************

        Invited Speaker:  Wen, Yuan-Kai
            Visiting Professor at California Institute of Technology
            Professor of Chemistry at China S&T University

        Time:   2:00pm -4:00pm
                Sat. Sept. 19, 1992

        Place:  Room 220, Dunham Labs
                10, Hillhouse Ave
                New Haven, CT 06510

        Please join us, please join us, please join us
From: ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Yuan M Jiang)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Needed: copy of open letter to Bush (and congress)
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:41:00 GMT
Reply-To: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University

and their fax # and addresses.

I lost my copies.  I hope someone can kindly send me a copy.

Thanks.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china