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   Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
   From: dmercer@oracle.com (David Mercer)
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   References: <1992Dec18.134630.28216@relay.nswc.navy.mil>
	   <1992Dec18.125744.1@cua.edu>
   Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 23:46:22 GMT
   X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
		 at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
		 of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.
   Lines: 32

   In article <1992Dec18.125744.1@cua.edu> 99siraj@cua.edu (GO! SKINS KILL THE cowboys) writes:

   >In article <1992Dec18.134630.28216@relay.nswc.navy.mil>, rweisbe writes:
   >> 
   >>   I came across an old sports newspaper in my wife's great aunts
   >> house a while back. It talked about the Boston Redskins.  Is this
   >> the same Washington Redskins of today?   If so how long were they
   >> in Boston? Do the Redskins count those Boston years when they speak
   >> about how long the team existed or do they count just the Washington
   >> years?
   >> 
   >> Bob

   >======================================================================
   >The other day I was watching "The greatest moments in NFL"
   >hosted by Steve Sabol and he was talking about the Skins. Yes the
   >Skins used to be in Boston, "Boston Braves". The team moved to Washington
   >in 1937. I don't think they count those years they were in Boston.

   This would probably have been back in the days when the Pats played in
   Fenway (yes, Fenway).  Red Sox and Patriots were considered
   complimentary (AL & AFC), and there was a third Boston team, the
   Braves (NL, now in Atlanta).  When Boston acquired another football
   team (NFC), they named it the Redskins (now in Washington) to
   compliment the Braves.

Say *what*?  I think you need to read a few books about NFL and MLB history.
The Braves left Boston after the 1953 season, headed to Milwaukee, while the
Patriots didn't arrive until the rest of the AFL did in 1960.  Boston got
one of the first NFL expansion teams in 1931 -- and it was called the
Braves, just like the baseball team.  In 1932, the team changed nicknames to
become the Redskins, which is very likely tied to sharing a park with the
Braves -- and the franchise moved to Washington for the 1937 season.  That's
how long the Washington Redskins have been around.

--PLH, glad he didn't come along until the year *after* the Braves' move to
Milwaukee

--
From: hjjcl@usho77.hou281.chevron.com (J.J.Clyde)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Playoffs: Philly at NewOrleans
Date: 30 Dec 92 19:35:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: .

mark@totaltec.com writes:
>> 
>>      From what I've seen today (Eagles vs. Giants), the Eagles look 
>> pretty weak. Also, the New Orleans offense seems to be non existant.
>> I was just wonderinghow some of you people out side of the New Orleans 
>> area perceive the Saints as a team and their offense in particular.
>
>Well I'm from the Philly area and I perceive the Saints in general to be a
>bunch of no-nothing,wimp assholes who couldn't play there way out of a wet
>paper bag!!!
>
>GO EAGLES!!!

Is is just me, or do you notice the Spirit of ALL-CAPS starting to
revisit r.s.f.p?

Good thing Philly has been playing one notch under a wet paper bag
lately!

--J.J.
(looking ahead to Candlestick)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: root@june.cmp.rpi.edu (J.R. Ordon)
Subject: Re: Minnesota Vikings - 1993 Schedule.
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:27:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.201319.2828@news.eng.convex.com> bros@convex.COM (Andrew Bros) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.010117.6454@ultb.isc.rit.edu> vxb8773@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>>the vikes schedule for next year is as follows:
>>8 standard division games (2 each against GB, chicago, detroit, TB)
>>since the finished 1st in their division, they will play the top 2
>>teams in the other nfc divisions from this year.
>>        (san fran, new orleans, dallas, and philadelphia)
>
>  I understand this part.
>
>>finally, they will play the top 4 afc west teams from this year.
>>        (san diego, kc, la raiders, and denver)
>
>  But why do the Vikes play four teams from one division in the AFC?
>Or is it like that each year, and I've just never noticed?  Why not
>mix it up and play a team from each division?
>-- 
>Andrew Bros                             bros@convex.com
>System Integration Group                Convex Computer Corporation
>It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations,
>if you live near him.  - JRR Tolkien, The Hobbit.

Yep, that's the way it is, this year the vikes played:

Cincinnati (won)
Pittsburgh (won)      = AFC Central  BTW I hope their record is 3-1
Cleveland  (won)                     against the AFC west next yr.  
Houston    (lost)

If there are 5 teams in a division, example AFC east, they still play 4
of them, although i'm not sure which team gets left out...

----------------------------------
J.R. Ordon
GO VIKES!!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: Draft stuff
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 06:15:50 GMT
Organization: VMARK Software, Inc.

In article <1992Dec30.165414.28696@pdn.paradyne.com> lej@pdn.paradyne.com (Leo James) writes:
>In article <103359@netnews.upenn.edu> satish@a.chem.upenn.edu (Satish Nair) writes:
>>Since the season is over and since SOME of us don't have anything to do
>>but sit on our thumbs waiting for next season, would anyone like to take
>>a stab at what draft prospects will do the most good for their respective
>>favorite teams?  Here's how I see the first four picks (unfortunately, 
>>my team traded away their first choice :-( ..
>>
>>Seattle: Lincoln Kennedy OT, Washington.  Rather than spending another first
>>	round pick on a QB, they should try to get a better O line and this
>>	guy will be one of the best soon!
>
>Ok.
>>
>>New England: Garrison Hearst, RB, Georgia.  Thgey've already spent a few 1st
>>	rounders on offensive linesman (Pat Harlow, Eugene Chung) so I think
>>	they'll probably address the need for a running game.
>
>So, you don't think Marshall Faulk will be allowed, or want to, come out?

No..No..No...   Probably the last thing they need is a running back.  
Stephens and crew were doing ok.  THeir offensive line still needs help,
but they can't afford to waste another pick on an offensive lineman.
Look at either Bledsoe or Marvyn Jones or Eric Curry for them...

>>
>>NY Jets: Reggie Brooks, RB, Notre Dame.  Blair Thomas was a bust, they need
>>	a running game to take some heat off their rookie QB.
>
>If pick #3 comes and goes and Florida St. LB, Marvin Jones, has not been
>selected; there ought to be an investigation!

Again, Reggie will be a good one, but Marvyn Jones and Eric Curry could be
Bruce Smith/LT type players.   Go for the franchise players when you can...

>>
>>Phoenix: That defensive lineman from 'Bama.  Can't remember his name for the
>>	life of me.  Anyways, the Cards need a pass rusher and this dude is
>>	it!
>
>His name is John Copeland and look for either he or his bookend, Eric
>Curry, to be the Buccaneer's choice in the #6 slot.

Curry will go well before Copeland...
-- 
David T. Meeks            || "New shadows tugging at the corner of his eye
VMark Software, Inc.      ||  Jostling for attention as the sunlight flares
uvmark!davem@merk.com     ||  Through a curtains tear, shuffling its beams
davem%uvmark@merk.com     ||  As if in nervous anticipation of another day"
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (The Purple Bleeder )
Subject: Re: Charger-mania
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 01:52:53 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

The situation for the Vikings is similar to the Chargers, since
both of them are Division winners #3 from their respective
conferences.

If the Vikes win, they will go to Dallas to play the Boys,
no matter what happens between the Saints and the Eagles.
And no matter what happens, if the Chargers win, they will
run into the Dolphins at Miami.

The playoff rules are formatted in such a way that the road
to the Super Bowl for the Div.3 winner *always* goes through
the home field of Div. winner #2.

S.H
Forever Vikes...period

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: AFC vs. NFC drivel
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:01:25 GMT

tobias@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Tobias) writes:
>    Consider that 5 of the 12 AFC victories were won by ex-NFC teams
>(Pittsburgh 4x and Baltimore 1x) and the score changes to 19-7 in favor
>of NFC/ex-NFC.

So, if we go by your rule, we must also count all the times that
Denver, Miami and Oakland beat Pittsburgh and Cleveland in the AFC
playoffs, no?  Why, all of a sudden Denver's record against the NFC
looks quite decent.

And the 1-15 Colts of last year -- what a pathetic bunch of NFC losers!

Oops, this just in.  Pittsburgh, Cleveland and the Colts were never in
the NFC!  They were in the NFL (with an ell) and moved to the AFC
after the merger.  Tsk, tsk.  You'll have to find some other nit to
pick.


--Gidi





Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (JOHN)
Subject: Re: Are the Falcons really that lame?
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 08:12:55 GMT

In article <douthit.725068556@scofflaw> douthit@convex.com (Ronnie Douthit) writes:
>jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (JOHN) writes:
>
>>I'll be in row 3, 50 yard line! :-) I won't give you the section,
>>but I am easy to spot. Just look for the MANLY MAN in red! :-)
>
>Yeah, I suppose a MANLY MAN would be easy to spot at Candlestick :^)
>
>Sorry, just couldn't let that pass,
>
>			-Ron

Silly you! Why do you think I posted that! Sheesh! :-)
-- 
 ---------  John Gloria - jpglori@pacbell.com	--------	
"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know
everything or nothing about it."   Olin Miller
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com (Bob Ashley)
Subject: Re: TV  (was Re: 'Twas NBC Re: Raiders vs.
Reply-To: ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com
Organization: GTE Federal Systems Division
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 23:21:28 GMT

In article 10841@ttsi.lonestar.org,  hbishop@ttsi.lonestar.org (Huett Bishop) writes:
>
>Is there some rule about the home market for the home team not being able
>to see both games in a double header?
>
>I have noticed this before.
>
>Huett


Yes, there is a rule, and quite frankly, I think it needs some refinement.

When you live in a market where the home games have been sold out since
1966, you come to understand this rule PDQ ...


Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Ashley                        Internet:  Bob.Ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com

Member, Technical Staff            | Winter Bowling Leagues 1992-1993
   GTE Federal Systems Division    |    GTE FSD Mixed Secretary: Thu 17:45
   15000 Conference Center Drive   |    Thursday Mixups:         Thu 20:30
   Chantilly, VA   22021-3808      |    NFL Mixed Secretary:     Mon 21:00
   (703)-818- voice 4656  FAX 5484 |    Fantasy League Captain:  Team #1



Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: chrisc@cae.wisc.edu (Chris Carey)
Subject: Re: How the Pack Can Get In (was Re: Redskins/Packers in the Playoffs ...
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin--Madison
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:14:39 CST

In article <1992Dec21.173153.29992@bmw.mayo.edu> bergerson@mayo.edu writes:
>
>->
>->Pack	Philly	Skins		team in the playoffs
>->W	W	W		Skins
>->W	W	L		Pack
>->W	L	W		Pack
>->W	L	L		Pack
>->L	W	W		Skins
>->L	W	L		Skins
>->L	L	W		Skins
>->L	L	L		Skins
>->
>->If you say there's a 50/50 chance each game could go either way {of course you
>->can't; assign your own percentages here}, the chances of the Packers getting in
>->are 37.5%
>->
>->I've even heard, but I can't confirm, that if all three teams tie, the Packers
>->will get the #2 wildcard spot, and the Eagles #3.  This would be bad for the
>->Packers {who wouldn't rather play the Vikes instead of the Saints?}, but the
>->good news is that this may be extra incentive for the Eagles to lose Sunday, so
>->they could play the Vikes.
>->
>
>Why worry??  The Vikes are going to kill the Packers anyways.  That comment 
>about the Eagles having incentive to lose is very stupid.  Any athlete or team
>with any amount of pride or competitive spirit does not think that way.  And 
>the Eagles have pleny of pride and spirit.
>
>Fuck you about the 'who wouldn't rather play the Vikes instead of the Saints'
>comment.  The Saints have never even won a playoff game before.  The Vikings
>are going to surprise a lot of teams in the playoffs.  At least they are in them.
I was being a gratious loser, but I think this just might be cause for me to be
"ungracious".  I'm going to send a bulletin to all you Vikings fans, unless
something changes, maybe Salisbury stepping forward, who knows, the Vikings
have NO offense.  Comments about going all the way with defense are moronic.  A
team needs a good defense to win the superbowl, but no matter how good the
defense if their on the field the whole game they let points go by.  True
Pittsburgh only scored 3 on the Vikes, but the Pittsburgh offense is pretty
anemic itself.  The Vikings will surprise NO teams in the playoffs unless they
get an offense-which would be pretty surprising in itself.  As for the game
this Sunday all I'll say is we'll see.  The Vikings have a tough D, but I think
the Packers can get 14-17 points.  With the way the secondary is playing for
the Packers I think that will be enough.  Look for Buckley to intercept his
fourth and Cecil his fifth.  Terry Allen is a darn good runner.  But when your
offense is 1-d it doesn't help.  Just look at Barry Foster for the Steelers,
now that O'Donnel is out he's just getting stuffed.  The Vikings, because of
their defense deserve to be in the playoffs, my hat is off to the vikings D.
But don't start ringing any bells of celebration until the Vikings get some O.
(In which case I agree they'll be a very dangerous team).

-Chris C.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: tom@vexcel.com (Tom Baltzer)
Subject: Re: Steve Sewell question
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:24:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.204536.26618@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> mk0e@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MAHEENDRA BABURAO KASMALKAR) writes:
>
>Steve Sewell had broken his ankle at 5 places in the preseason.
>How is he doing? Is he going to be back this season?

There has been some mention earlier in the season that he might
be able to play in the playoffs.  However, I havn't heard anything
new on it.  This may be because Denver is so unlikely to make it
now.  

Go Broncos, a win over KC gets us in!

Tom.
From: timl@mips.com (Tim Layman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Is there one HONEST Bills fan?
Date: 4 Jan 1993 00:56:43 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Sunnyvale, California
NNTP-Posting-Host: zulu.mti.sgi.com

In article <1993Jan3.220421.7381@PacBell.COM> jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (JOHN) writes:
>
>I enjoyed the game and the outcome on this game to me,
>HONESTLY, was one of indifference.  I was rooting for
>good plays and as the game started, the Oilers were in
>command. In the second half, the tide turned and again,
>I was rooting for good plays. Da Bills were the victors
>in the 2nd half.  

	Same with me. In these types of games I always
root for who is behind in the game.
>
>FACTS:  Beebe stepped out of bounds and it was not
>called and he ran in for a TD. Although this COULD HAVE
>been the game for the Oilers, IMHO, I believe Da Bills
>WOULD HAVE found a way to win this one. 

	This was the greatest comeback and Riech (I'm sorry, but I really
don't even know how to spell his name, but...) was fantastic! But they
did need a little good fortune from the Zebras. There was a great still
shot of Beebe with his left foot out of bounds and the ref standing behind
him looking the other way. Also, on the previous play, remember the fumble
and Houston recovery? Except the play was blown dead mistakenly. It should
have been Houston ball and the Beebe touchdown would have never happened.
Also... in the overtime interception, did you see the mugging of the Houston
reciever? No wonder Moon passed it right to the Bill's defender. He was
standing right where the reciever was heading before he was interfered with.
	But ya know what? How many times this year have we seen posts about
bad calls? Oh, about once or twice per game. The fact here is that the Bills
came back from beyond the dead and executed to perfection. I'll be honest,
After the interception that made it 35-3. I said, "Well, that just about
takes care of da Bills". Then, with each touchdown scored it became more and
more obvious to me that I was watching something special. The interview with
Riech after the game was great. He said it was the most fantastic thing that
ever happened to him in his life other than the births of his daughters and
marrying his wife.
	I wonder what the Steelers thought of the game?! I know I won't miss
that game next week! Oh yeah, and I guess I'll be watching the 9er's too:^)

	Tim
Go 9er's!!!!

p.s. Man, did we see some good football this weekend or what?! Starting with
the bowl games on Jan. 1, a new national champion, a close and high scoring
rose bowl, a Cinderella win for the Chargers, an awsome come back from the
dead by the Bills, and finishing with a come from behind win for the Eagles!

>-- 
> ---------  John Gloria - jpglori@pacbell.com	--------	
>"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know
>everything or nothing about it."   Olin Miller


Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: johndoe@jefferson.inmet (johndoe)
Subject: Re: Detailed Playoff Picture [LONG]
Reply-To: johndoe@inmet.com (Bus error - core dumped)
Organization: Intermetrics, Inc.
	<JOHNDOE92Dec24.152531@jefferson.inmet>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 20:01:26 GMT

btw, all of this brings up an interesting issue:

if you are a houston oiler, as you look at all of the playoff scenarios, you
realize that you have virtually no chance at playing a playoff game at home,
and absolutely none in the first two rounds.

your game will be after the broncos-kc, chargers, steelers and dolphins
games, all of which have a great deal of impact on your playoff travel
plans.

with exception of the case where the dolphins lose and kc, sd, & pitt win,
losing to the bills means going to either miami or pittsburgh, whereas
beating the bills means going the very next week to rich stadium to play
them again.

do you take this into consideration?  does it make any difference that a
first round win against pitt or mia will be followed by a meeting with the
bills in orchard park?

-johndoe
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: bad referees in the bill-oiler game
From: <WXT106@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 18:19:57 EST
Organization: Penn State University

I guess very one saw the holding Talley put on Givings in the overtime, eh? And
and beebe stepped out of bounds and catch the pass for TD, everyone saw it exce
pt the referees.  I am mad the oiler defense, but I think if ref made those cal
ls, the outcome of the game would be different.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: petersen@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jim Petersen)
Subject: Super Bowl champs keep falling (was: Re: SKINS RULE)
Followup-To: rec.sport.football.pro
Organization: Chicago IL
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 12:09:33 GMT

In article <BzwLuE.Bz@abode.ttank.com>, eric@abode.ttank.com (Eric C.
Bennett) wrote:

> Any Redskin fans out there want to comment about how come the Redskins seem to
> follow a Super Bowl winning season by a season that has them not making the
> playoffs at all? Of course that has yet to be determined for this year, but
> there is a good chance it will and you can't say that the Redskins have played
> like a defending Super Bowl champ.

And how about the Giants? Super Bowl two years ago, this year in
the dumps (5-11?). If these NFC teams are so great, why do they
just flash in the pan and then disappear?

__________________________________________________________________________
Jim Petersen         petersen@casbah.acns.nwu.edu          jp@darkstar.com

                If mercy's in business I wish it for you-        
             More than just ashes when your dreams come true.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: johndoe@samadams.inmet (johndoe)
Subject: Re: Best Facial Expressions of the Week, Foster, MVP Montgomery, Booths
Reply-To: johndoe@inmet.com (Bus error - core dumped)
Organization: Intermetrics, Inc.
	<16117@auspex-gw.auspex.com> <63102@mimsy.umd.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 05:50:28 GMT

In article <63102@mimsy.umd.edu> sjsmith@cs.umd.edu (Stephen Joseph Smith) writes:

   Before I get flamed endlessly for this, let me say that Eric Dickerson's
   twelve 100-yard game season was much more impressive than Foster's.  I
   don't have the stats in front of me, but my impression was that Foster had
   a lot of 100- to 110- yard games that certainly didn't add up to 3000 yards
   or whatever [exaggeration.]


i would have to agree with this assessment.  after hearing about the browns
game and watching the steelers on monday night against the chiefs, i know of
two occaisions where foster had around 95 yards, was put in with the game
salted away, got his 100, and then taken out.  this is not so bad as to be
dubious - hey, pittsburgh could have just run him to death rather than take
him out, or been a little smarter and left him in until 100, instead of
putting him back in for more when the game is a foregone conclusion - but my
point is i'm agreeing that is is not as impressive as dickerson.

and speaking of dickerson, rushing records, etc., i have been in a cave for
the past couple of weeks except to get nfl scores.  what happened to
dickerson?  how come he did not play against the skins this past weekend?  i
am hardly a raiders fan (being a broncos fan generally prevents that), but
in my semi-objective opinion, i thought dickerson was doing a pretty good
job running the ball the way the raiders were using him at the beginning of
the game.  he didn't run once in that game.  what gives?


   - Stephen

-j.d.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro