HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ega029@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Lami Kaya)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
Date: 23 Nov 92 12:31:25 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing at Lancaster University, UK.

In article <By4tpn.G82@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> emremsia@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Emre Erkut) writes:
>>>   
>
>My comments:
>
>	1.	Ethics of using common networks requires not getting personal
>    		in messages. No one can tell me not to talk about his
>		REVOLUTION with admiration. If you get personal, you invite
>		others to be personal, too, and in a very short period of
>		time this can generate a huge wave of insults. So, please.

As far as I see, there has not been any personal attack so far. You have
included my message in your reply and giving advice. No one has told you
NOT to talk with admiration about REVOLUTION. Just we are trying to show
the other (real face) side of revolution. But we know some people do not 
let people speak their mind. Not even with advice, but with some other
commonly known means. I can assure you that 'huge wave of insults' will
not come from muslims or people who can reasoning. 

A>	2.	It's a pity that the Turkish Republic is being 'represented'
>		abroad by people who favor Islam over everything.
>

Why do you think it is so? When I refer to you as _you_ do not take it
as an insult. I feel pity as well for Turkey was/is being represented by
brainwashed secularist. 

>	3.	Ethics of using common networks requires being objective, too.
>		And any biased message is bound to be subjective.
>

When people run out of argument they try to divert the attension to somewhere
else. It's not surprise to me...

Lami

>Emre Erkut
>Krannert-Purdue
>Turkish Education Foundation 1992 Overseas Scholar.
> 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11734 talk.politics.mideast:22264 talk.politics.soviet:8985 soc.culture.greek:10674 soc.culture.europe:9628 soc.history:9541 soc.culture.soviet:10065
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Tzeghagrons were deeply anti-semitic as well.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:46:14 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Nov16.083646.71010@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS) writes:

>In article <1473100066@igc.apc.org>, lgsax@igc.apc.org (Lynn Gazis-Sax) writes:
>Ms. Lynn Gazis-Sax has done her best to write as moving a defense of her

Odear. "Kovas", "Saxos", and "revisionists" was the game to play at the 
ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle. And these clowns knew
their category. Whether it stemmed from German influence or not, the 
Tzeghagrons were deeply anti-semitic as well. In the May 10, 1936 edition 
of 'Hairenik Weekly' the vice-mayor of Bucharest, Rumania is quoted as saying:

"The Armenians helped us not to become the slaves of the Jewish
 elements in our country."

In another edition, an author named Captain George Haig writes:

"And the type of Jew who is imported to Palestine...is not anything
 to be proud about. Their loose morals, and other vices were
 unknown to the Arabs prior to Balfour Declaration, on top of 
 all communist activities were the cause of most of the Arab
 criticism."[1]

As Uzun exposed, the Dashnaks were fascist. Before Pearl Harbor, 
the Dashnak daily 'Hairenik' (not to be confused with the Tzeghagrons
'Hairenik Weekly') expressed pro-Nazi sentiments:

"And came Adolf Hitler, after herculean struggles. He spoke
 to the racial heart strings of the German, opened the 
 fountain of his national genius, strock down the spirit
 of defeatism...At no period since the World War had Berlin
 conducted so realistic, well organized, and planned policy
 as now, since Hitler's assumption to power...And whatever
 others may think concerning Hitlerism and Fascism as a 
 system of Government, it is proved that they have revitalized
 and regenerated the two states, Germany and Italy."[2]

[1] Captain George Haig, 'The Case of Palestine,' in Hairenik
    Weekly, Friday, September 25, 1936.
[2] 'Hairenik,' official organ of the Dashnaktsuitune, Sept. 
    17, 1936; quoted in John Roy Carlson, 'The Armenian Displaced
    Persons' (see endnote 1), p. 21.


Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: TEX5HAD@CMS1.LEEDS.AC.UK (Haluk DEMIRBAG)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Navy missle said accidentally launched in 1982 (fwd)
Date: 17 Nov 1992 22:48:05 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: Turkish Cultural Program List <TRKNWS-L%USCVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

8<----------------------------Cut here-(C)----------------------------->8
>From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Subject: Navy missle said accidentally launched in 1982
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 14:14:37 PST

        HOUSTON (UPI) -- A powerful sea skimmer Navy missile was accidentally
launched in the Caribbean Sea in 1982, posing a deadly threat to
civilian and military ships in the area, the Houston Chronicle reported
Sunday.
        The newspaper said that during gunnery exercises near St. Martin
island, a Navy guided missile destroyer accidentally launched the self-
guiding missile capable of locating and striking a moving vessel 90
miles away.
        According to the report, the Navy admitted the missile flew to the
limit of its range just above the wave tops before falling harmlessly
into the sea.
        The missile is armed with a 500-pound warhead and is designed to blow
up after it penetrates the hull of a ship.
        The Chronicle said the error came to light during the Navy
investigation of last month's accidental missile launch that killed five
Turkish sailors. On Oct. 2, the USS Saratoga mistakenly fired two Sea
Sparrow missiles, at least one of which struck the Turkish destroyer
Mauvenet.
        The 1982 accidental launch involved a Harpoon missile, the Navy's
premier anti-ship weapon that contains a radar system in its nose to
guide the missile to its target. The newspaper said the Navy is trying
to determine whether there have been similar misfires of the Harpoon.
        The Chronicle said the missile was mistakenly launched in the spring
of 1982 from the USS Coontz as a stunned crew watched the Harpoon race
toward the horizon.
        A sailor working on the main deck of the Coontz was Seaman Charles
Sutton, who said he ``heard this huge roar and realized there was all
this smoke right over my head.'' Sutton, who now works as a printer in
Houston, said ``it was a miracle I didn't get roasted.''
        The sailor told the newspaper that he and other crewmembers feared
the missile could hit a Soviet warship they believed was in the area, as
well as a merchant or passenger vessel.
8<----------------------------Cut here-(C)----------------------------->8
            _
|-| /-\ |_ |_| |< {'Turkey replaces Germany in NATO strategy'
                                                    "LE SOIR"}
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: A questions (s) on Ataturk (was Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:04:07 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <1992Nov19.134158.16192@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> deniz@mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu (Deniz Akkus) writes:
[deleted]
>The reverence for Mustafa Kemal Ataturk is no longer comparable to the
>reverence once shown to Lenin in ex Soviet Union for example.  On the
>other hand, he is rightly regarded as a visionary and benevolent ruler
>who steered his country through uncharted waters and did so
>successfully.  He remains the only one of the 1930's style strong men
>whose pictures still adorn the offices of its civil servants.  

For a long time I wanted to ask something which I've heard several times
but alas, books, propaganda, etc, rarely tend (and try) to find a 'binding'
examples for 2 neighbouring people :-( (this is a generalization - I don't
have in mind any particular 'propaganda' !!!). So - my question is:

From where (to the best knowledge of all of you) did Kemal Ataturk got his
pro-European (i.e. reformist) ideas? Those ideas were, of course, mainly
his own ideas as he being a great patriot was considering what is best for
Turkey but you know - people are greatly affected by what they see ...

(I was told that it was from the country where he got
his military educaiton and spent year(s?) as militaty atache there :-).
However, I've never had the chance to read his biography in detail so that
may not be exactly like this. )

Regards

Luben
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: The Turkish Cypriot cemetery is dila
From: Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hakki Kocabas)
Date: 20 Nov 92 01:04:23 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

  
[header deleted]  
>  First off, the Greek-Cypriot government has been systematicly restoring the
> Turkish mosques that exist on the sothern part of the island. A point in cas
> is one of the most sacred mosques to the muslims is the one where Mohammed's
> aunt is buried. This mosque is just outside of the airport and is attended b
> security. You can visit it as it is still in good repair.  
  
I didn't know that Greek-Cypriot security became muslim and attending  
mosques...can someone enlighten me on this new development there...  
I am really excited to hear such peaceful spread of Islam among  
Greek-Cypriots....that must be the direct result of old Greek plea  
"We better see Ottoman's Kavuk than Cardinal's Kulah!"  
  
> If ANYONE DARES to persist with bullshit about Cyprus -you just wait and SEE
> how bad I'm going to FLAME YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
  
and I am waiting...:-)  
yanarsam Kaya'nin dili yerine bir Rum dilberinin dilinden yanayim....yavrum...
come FLAME ME !!  
  
> Gadishi Sas - pezavenghis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
Where did you pick up this language kiz ?!  
Agzina hicte yakismiyor...  
> Elena Christofides   Greek-Cypriot and DAMN PROUD TOO!!!!!!!!  
and we love you for that..  
now, I know why we have to get the other half of Cyprus as well ...  
and the whole Greece back, it is a love affair for us, it was always...  
we love it, so we will re-conquer it...sooner or later...again and again..  
>   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Ermeni cani - Rum cani
From: Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hakki Kocabas)
Date: 21 Nov 92 13:17:52 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

Hic Istanbul'da Ermeni Kilisesinin caniyla, Rum Kilisesinin canina kulak 
verdiniz mi ?

Ermenilerinki soyle calar : bu-din-bizim, bu-din-bizim, bu-din-bizim...

Rumlarinki ise soyle : dan-ga-lak-lar, dan-ga-lak-lar, dan-ga-lak-lar...

no offence intended....just a childhood recollection...

|-| /-\ |-< |-< |||

Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: deniz@mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu (Deniz Akkus)
Subject: Ata-turk - Trator or Ok dude?
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:21:35 GMT
X-Posted-From: mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <22820.9211201237@thor.cf.ac.uk> spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92) writes:
>Subject: Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
>
>It depends on what you understand from religious freedom. If you are 
>a Yahova Witness (I am not sure about name) then you are free to do

Actually Jehovah's Witnesses regularly get into trouble for
proselytizing.

>go to university then you are not allowed to cover your head (which
>is one of the basic institutions in Islamic belief). Because you are

This is simply not true any more.  Universities do allow women in
headdress to attend classes.  High schools do not, explaining that it is
a divergence from required uniform. 

In my opinion, the situation with headdress was simply made into a
symbol.   I have no problem with people following whatever religion they
choose in a non-intrusive way.  I do believe however, that if your
religious beliefs do not allow you to completely fulfill the
requirements of your profession, perhaps you should choose another
profession.   I had a cousin attending medical school in Izmir (female)
who used to complain that fellow medical students in Islamic headdress
refused to look at male patients during their internship and how she had
to work extra to cover for them.  The problem is not so much that some
women cover their heads, but that they demand special consideration
because they are more strict followers of Islam.  This causes resentment.

>DO YOU THINK ISLAM IS ALL ABOUT TO GO TO MOSQUE AND PRAY?

I think that Islam is a religion, not a way of life.

regards,
Deniz Akkus deniz@ctr.columbia.edu
From: gunal@pion.rutgers.edu (Yuksel Gunal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Roma-GS
Date: 23 Nov 92 22:18:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Carsamba gunu oynanacak Roma-GS 3.tur ilk macini
NY 31.kanal'i RAI araciligiyla oglen 12:45'de
naklen yayinlayacak .NY civarinda yasayan 
CimBomlulara duyurulur .
From: ega029@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Lami Kaya)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
Date: 22 Nov 92 07:59:53 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing at Lancaster University, UK.

In article <1992Nov21.173811.4534@jack.sns.com> trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.125838.23576@comp.lancs.ac.uk> ega029@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Lami Kaya) writes:
>>
>>
>>Muslim girls are banned to enter schools with their scarfs? The security
>>forces are well equiped to combat this girls all around university and
>>high schools. Many of the girls has been denied to access even in public
>>libraries because of their islamic dress code.  Do not mention muslims
>>with beard in universities.
>
>Also, moslem men are not allowed to have more than one wife. Nor are they
>allowed to marry 9-year-old girls...
>
>So it is obvious that Ataturk and all his followers are traitors to 
>Islam!
>>

Dear AT,

It seems you do not have anything to say about the opression on the
muslim students, then you try to change the subject, is this all
you can say about my statemt above?

Regards,

Lami

>>Lami
>>
>Vesselam,
>AT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.soviet,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: Altogether twelve Armenian battalions served the Nazi army.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:00:07 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Nov22.211910.1839@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger) writes:

+>Of course, there was no independent Armenia at this time -- a fact
+>Serdar conveniently ignores.

	The larger fact that Serdar ignores is that there were military
collaborators in nearly every european country.  
	I mean even Belgium had the Rexists who eventually formed the
Walloon legion within the SS.  Non-german facist groups who aided the
Germans usually did so with the expectation of German favors after the
war to help them carry out their own agendas.  The leadership of these
organizations usually wanted favors from the germans after the war
in carrying out their national agendas.....they recruited many people
of various beliefs via the "crusade against asiatic communism" arguement 
or (in the east) based on playing to the nationalist asperations of peoples
under the rule of the Russians (like the Armenians).

Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11745 talk.politics.mideast:22275 talk.politics.soviet:8995 soc.culture.greek:10685 soc.culture.europe:9639 soc.rights.human:4237 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9573
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Greek terrorists in Turkiye?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 22:13:42 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <pnevmati.722108047@cs.wisc.edu> pnevmati@milhouse.cs.wisc.edu (Dionisios N. Pnevmatikatos) writes:

>to get rid of it) unlike other postings such as Mutlu and variants, that
>basicaly are dumps of ____ information (you choose the adjective).

Odino. The Greek-PKK collaboration is revealed in a report published
on December 29, 1989 in Eleftheria Dis Gnomis, a Greek Cypriot newspaper. 
The paper admitted that 
              
 'two of the terrorists killed in PKK raids to Southeastern
  Turkiye were Greeks.'

Don't you have your own rake?

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11793 talk.politics.mideast:22313 talk.politics.soviet:9028 soc.culture.greek:10728 soc.culture.europe:9672 soc.history:9591
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Gagging at the mess of "visser the revisionist"s lies.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 23:10:01 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <TPS-L%92111910522296@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU> 055434@uottawa.bitnet (Sean Maguire) writes:

>Mutlu, this is the second self-insult in the past two weeks!  Is there
>something bothering you that you'd like to talk about (other than that pesky
>Genocide thing) to the rest of us.  I mean, we really care about your emotional

Suffering from a severe case of myopia? 

"These European Dashnags, with headquarters in Berlin, appealed to,
 and bargained with Hitler's emissaries for an 'independent'
 Armenian state. That they had to bootlick Nazi masters goes without
 saying. That, as potential officials of a puppet Nazi state, they
 would have assumed the infamous roles of the Paveliches, Antonescus,
 Lavals, Tisos or Vidkun Quislings was also a foregone conclusion.
 Once committed to it, there was no alternative to the price for
 'independence' except subservience to Hitler."[1]

[1] Arthur Derounian under the pseudonym 'John Roy Carlson,'
    "The Armenian Displaced Persons," in the "Armenian Affairs,"
    a Quarterly Journal of Armenian Studies, Winter 1949-50, p. 18.


Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: kg+02@me.unda.edu (Kaya Guralp)
Subject: KURANDAKI LAUBALI AYETLER
Organization: University of Dakota, School of Engineering
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:46:00 GMT


 Muhammed'in aslinda oldukca bilgisiz bir adam oldugu biliniyor. Ama 
 Peygamberin gozlem gucu gercekten hayranlik uyandiracak kadar guzel. 
 Bilimsel olarak ispatlanan pek cok gercegi 1400 yil once nasil da 
 bilmis. Iste bir ornek:

 Lokman Suresi
  10 ALLAH GOKLERI, GORDUGUNUZ GIBI, DIREKSIZ YARATMIS, SIZI SALLAR DIYE
     YERYUZUNE SABIT DAGLAR KOYMUS; orada her turlu canliyi yaymistir. Gokten
     su indirip, orada her hos ciftten yetistirmisizdir.

 Muhammed'in goklerin direksiz yaratildigini soylemesi eminim Islamci
 kardeslerimizi pek de rahatsiz etmeyecek. Neresinden bakarsaniz bakin, gok
 hakikaten direksiz duruyor, dogru degil mi?. Yani direk falan gorunmuyor.
 Daglari da agirlik yapsin, insanlar sallanmasin diye koymus. Yoksa, yer 
 dumduz bir seymis. Gokten suyu da o indirmis. 

 Iste Kuran! 1400 asir sonra, bilimsel oldugu iddia edilen Kuran gercegi 
 anlatiyor.

 saygilarimla
 ------------
 kaya
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Buyuk Ataturk
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:44:04 GMT

The following appeared in the October 9th, 1992 _Hurriyet_, page 8, under,

			_Gunun Sozu_

"Buyuk Ataturk, gerci biraz sovenistti ama, bunlarin hepsini (etnik gruplar)
bir poyaya koymustu" --Basbakan Demirel

Vay!


-- 
David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org "It has been ever thus in all things, son, 
SDPA Center for Regional Studies    Whatever we thrash we give to the wind, 
P.O. Box 382761                     We too have been blown by the world's wind
Cambridge, MA 02238                 The chaff is gone but the grain remains."
From: speeo@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr Ercan Otemel 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: DEniz Akkus'a
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:20:40 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff, Cardiff, Wales, UK
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

|Turkey is and has been 97% Muslim.  The state is secular, yet the people
|identify themselves as Muslim.  Mosques remain open and well-attended
|and the call to prayer can be heard throughout the country.  That there
|is religious freedom and abeyance to Islam is not reinforced, is in my
|opinion, one of Turkey's greatest strengths.  

|regards,
|Deniz Akkus deniz@ctr.columbia.edu 



Can you please define what the RELIGION is and what the RELIGIOUS
FREEDOM is. You can also define SECULARISM if you like.



Regards

Ercan 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: Bruce.Scott@launchpad.unc.edu (Bruce Scott)
Subject: Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:15:50 GMT

Re: the discussion of Arabic vs Latin alphabets in modern Turkey.

My book on learning Turkish (written by an Englishman) states that the
move to Latin was very good for the average Turk in learning to read,
because vowel harmony is so important in Turkish, and vowels are not
written in Arabic. (This adds to the fact that letters are printed
separately in Latin, making printed matter much more accessible to
the beginner.)

I would be interested to hear the perspective of native Turkish speakers
on this opinion.

Gruss,
Dr Bruce Scott                             The deadliest bullshit is
Max-Planck-Institut fuer Plasmaphysik       odorless and transparent
bds at spl6n1.aug.ipp-garching.mpg.de                 -- W Gibson

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11743 talk.politics.mideast:22273 talk.politics.soviet:8993 soc.culture.greek:10683 soc.culture.europe:9637 soc.history:9548 soc.culture.soviet:10069