Date:  7 Oct 92 20:28:06 GMT
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.religion.misc
Subject: The Mendacity of Gordon Storga
Summary: A particularly transparent case of mendacity.
Keywords: mendacity

In the "Is it Christian values or chauvinism thread," Gordon Storga has
posted a follow-up that is remarkable for its dishonest nature,
transparently clear to anyone who has access to the post to which it
follows up. 

I will repeat the relevant parts of both of these posts below.  First mine:

Date: 27 Sep 92 20:50:05 GMT
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Is it Christian values or chavinism?
Distribution: world

In <1992Sep25.211600.23804@coopsol.com> gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:

><1992Sep18.233054.14674@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) said:
>>From article by iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski):
>>> In article mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu (M. Price) writes:
>>> >In nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>>> >    <...> the fact that Suzanne
>>> >used the word "crucified" to refer to the justifiable tongue-lashing
>>> >Christ gave those who debased His temple trivializes the agony and
>>> >suffering He underwent in His death and spiritual separation from His
>>> >Father.

>Suzanne seems to ignore the castigation of other Christians who take her
>to task for trivializing their god's contributions.  I notice she doesn't
>apologize for it.

Get with it, Gordon!  Don't you see how Ivan has exposed M. Price's 
"castigation" for the hoax that it is?  And I've addressed this
"castigation" myself several times.

And is M. Price really a Christian?  Who are the others who have
"castigated" Suzanne, and is any of them really a Christian?

If you insist on perpetuating this charade, go ahead, but tell the "other
Christians" to be prepared
to "defend Christianity" against atheists as well as actual Christians
like Suzanne.  Otherwise everyone will see how hollow their "Christianity"
really is.

>>> I don't think I'm the only one here (I'm posting from alt.atheism) who
>>> is tired of this talk about the "agony", "suffering", and "death" of
>>> Jesus from Nazareth.  (Yes, I mean all those quotation marks).
>>> ...
>>> Rightly so.  Go ahead, prove that he suffered.  Only be sure to make
>>> it quite clear that he didn't just fake suffering (for whatever purpose).
>>
>>Oh, yeah, you mean like the way unborn babies "fake" their suffering when
>>they are ripped limb from limb via abortion.
>>
>>Get real.

>Indeed.  I suggest you take that advice.  The suffering of the mythical
>"unborn baby" is on par with the "suffering" of the mythical Mermaid by the
>pollution of the oceans, or the "suffering" of mythical Pink Elephants
>that die in car crashes with drunk drivers.

If Suzanne chooses to regard a fetus as an unborn baby, her choice should
not be trivialized in this manner.

I note your failure to address the question of whether Christ faked his
suffering.  Since you are, by your .sig, a professional atheist,
 I suggest you get the
"Christians" who "castigated" Suzanne to address it.  Note especially
how M. Price uses the terms "trivializes the agony and suffering."  

[Rest of post deleted.]

Now comes Gordon's follow-up. Certain aspects of it are worth remarking
on:

1. By deleting his preceding comments, he makes it look as though he
himself had not mentioned Christians in a very domineering (vis-a-vis
Suzanne) manner, and it was these Christians whose very existence I
was calling into question. 

His deletions give him an excuse to come up with a childish 
misrepresentation, beginning with "Oh, geez."  In it, he is
insinuating that I am a fundamentalist, which I most certainly am not.

2.  Like a little brat caught stealing from the cookie jar ("Cookies?
what cookies?") he feigns incomprehension over the phrase "other
Christians", as though he himself had not used the phrase in the post
to which he is following up.

3.  He also pretends that "atheists" refers to him, whereas it refers
to the like of Derzhanski, claiming that Christ faked suffering.         

I have made some restorations to Gordon's post from the preceding one,
so you can better see just how flagrant these three bits of mendacity are.

A bit of additional commentary follows his post.

Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism