HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: HF.SLK@forsythe.stanford.edu (Stewart Kramer)
Subject: Re: Dancing Do's and Don'ts
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:18:40 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.165236.20870@ads.com>,
charleen@ADS.COM (Charleen Bunjiovianna) writes:
>Helena says we should remember that we were all beginners once.  I say
>that we still are; the nature of the activity is such so that you can't
>say "I've learned everything I need to know to dance perfectly."  (With
>the possible exception of Stewart. :-)

Well, I beg to differ.  Dancing perfectly is not a matter of knowing
things, but of being perfect, which no one (including me) can be.

Challenge dancing depends on ruthlessly stamping out errors:
studying can teach you to pass the correct shoulder and turn the
correct direction, and experience can make you aware of mental traps
(e.g., forgetting interrupts, misparsing nested concepts, etc.) and
"red flag" situations like Pass In vs. Quarter In (where knowledge
must fight against intuition), but nothing can be done about failure
to pay attention.

Currently, most of my errors are from hearing what I expect to hear
rather than what was said, or from hearing the name of one call and
thinking of a different call (like saying "Blue" while thinking
"Green").  In either case, I usually catch these errors unless
something distracts me (because I've studied the flow of the calls
so that I can recognize these errors in others and say helpful
things like "not Split" at appropriate times; this same ability
enables me to recognize the call that I'm doing, or that everyone
else is doing, so I can say "Roll the Line, not Roll 'Em" to
myself.)

Stewart Kramer
---
"With a sharp enough knife, you can halve your cake and eat it two."
From: dp2p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Denys Proteau)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Re: contra-gypsies
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:30:14 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Biology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


From: sandell@chowning.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU (Gregory J. Sandell)
>Swinging is the imitation of lovemaking itself, 

I don't think so, it never occured to me, and I'm surprised anyone else
thinks so.  But I like swinging very much anyways.
      Denys
From: djp@ecs.soton.ac.uk (David Pritchard)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Re: Etiquette Question
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:48:16 GMT
Organization: Electronics & Computer Science Dept, University of Southampton, UK
Originator: djp@marston


In article <69621@ut-emx.uucp>, anita@ut-emx.uucp (Anita L. Cochran) writes:
> Someone asked about same sex couples in Contra dancing and I thought
> I would meniton how it is around here in WSD.  Often there are fewer
> men than women (although sometimes it is reversed) so to see 2 women
> dance together is not all that strange.  It is more uncommon to
> see 2 men dancing together (in the straight community) but it happens
> and most men seem to have more problem with the women's part than
> women have with the men's (probably due to a difference in experience
> levels).  Some people are offended by men dancing
> together but not by women dancing together, but most people don't care.
> I see no reason for the offense.  Our club has a tendency to be quite
> strange at times and it is not unusual, especially when visiting another
> club, to square up with all girl squares or sashayed couples
> or, like the other night, 2 couples which are all girls, one all boys
> and 1 sashayed.  The caller just ignored us and other people watched in
> amusement.  The important thing is to dance!
> 
On a historical note, in the 16th/17th centuries it would have been
completely out of the question for two women to dance together.  For
two men to dance together they first had to ask the caller's permission
AND go to the bottom of the set.
-- 
Dr David J. Pritchard		
Electronics and Computer Science	tel	(+44 703) 592722
University of Southampton		fax	(+44 703) 593045
Southampton SO9 5NH			email	djp@uk.ac.soton.ecs (UK)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
From: air@cs.cmu.edu (Alex Rudnicky)
Subject: 1992 Coal Country Convention
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 16:55:25 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


	       The 12th Annual COAL COUNTRY CONVENTION
			    May 1-3, 1992
		Camp Soles near Somerset, Pennsylvania

A weekend of old-time music and dance featuring the HEARTBEATS, 
the RED HOTS, the SCREAMIN' L7's and ZYDECO NORTON.  With calling 
by FRED PARK, DOLORES HEAGY and RON BUCHANAN.  And performances 
by the AFRICAN DRUMMERS & DANCERS and the COAL COUNTRY CLOGGERS.

This year's convention features workshops on clogging, squares,
african, zydeco and swing dance, along with music workshops for dance
band and individual instruments.  The weekend starts Friday at 7:30
with a potluck dinner, followed by a square dance from 9:30 to 2.  All
day workshops and performances on Saturday, with a square dance from 8
to 1:30, followed by a Zydeco dance from 1:30 to 3.  Sunday ends with
a "farewell" dance.

Camp Soles is about 90 min east of Pittsburgh and about 4 hrs from the
Cleaveland, Washington and Baltimore areas.  The camp has heated
cabins and hot showers.  It boasts good wood floors and is situated 
is a pleasant mountain area, with a lake and horseback riding.

The cost is $93 for the whole weekend and includes both room and
board.  Children 6-12 pay $25 and those under 6 get in for free.  

Registrations are due by the 15th of April.


------------------------- REGISTRATION FORM -------------------------------

Name: ______________________________________  Sex: M  F  Veggie:  Y  N

Address: _____________________________________________________________

City:________________________ State:______ ZIP: _______

Phone Number(s): _____________________________________________________

I would also like to register the following people, realizing that all
confirmations will be mailed (only) to me:

NAME					     Sex (M/F)  Veggie (Y/N)

__________________________________________   _____      ____

__________________________________________   _____      ____

__________________________________________   _____      ____

Please list names as you would like them to appear on your buttons.
Please also indicate childrens's ages.

We will assign cabins; please indicate your rooming preference and
whether there is anyone that you wish to room with:

1. Doesn't matter		Female-only		Male-only

2. Please assign me to the same cabin as:

_____________________________________________

_____________________________________________

Please make your cheque payable to Coal Country Convention and mail
it, with this registration form, to:

	Coal Country Traditions
	P.O.Box 99191
	Pittsburgh, PA 15233-4191

If you would like more information, please call 412 321 4462 and leave
a message indicating a good time to call you back.
From: trb@ima.isc.com (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Re: contra-gypsies
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:04:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: ima.1992Apr10.190439.18656
Organization: Interactive Systems, Cambridge, MA 02138-5302

In article <rt9l1INNeti@agate.berkeley.edu> sandell@chowning.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU (Gregory J. Sandell) writes:
> Swinging is the imitation of lovemaking itself, and the gypsy is
> the imitation of desire.  Can't wait till the next dance!

And I thought "forward and back" was the imitation of lovemaking itself.

I like the gypsy because it lends catharsis to the proceedings.
Building tension and then releasing it.  Most contra dancers are big on
releasing tension (swing, twirl, stomp!) but they're not much on
creating it.  They want gratifcation, and I mean now.  I want candy!
I like the dynamic range.  As Greg says, desire.  The creation of it.

Tom Willis started this thread by saying that he doesn't like gypsies,
that they are contrived and boring.  This description can be applied
to all social dancing, especially contras.  We loop the loop and then
we end up back where we started.

Assume for a moment that a gypsy fits into the dance you are doing.
(If it doesn't, you have the right to call it boring and contrived.)
Take the Flirtation Reel, for instance.  (I love it, Adam Moskowitz
hates it.  Gee, Adam, we haven't heard from you lately.)  *The* classic
contra for building up tension by flirting (with your corner, not your
partner! flirting implies "not with your partner," doesn't it?)
including use of the gypsy, and then releasing it at the end.  The
gypsy, like any other social interaction, will be more or less
pleasurable based on how your feel about yourself, about the other
person, about the nature of the interaction.  The gypsy is just one
type of dance interaction, but instead of holding hands, you're holding
eyes, so there's less chance to ignore your opposite.  You are never
supposed to be ignoring your fellow dancers, though the attention can
be pretty shallow and still be acceptable.

I find that when I dance, depending on how I feel about life that day
and about the fellow dancer in question, that I might not be in the
mood to "imitate lovemaking itself" with this particular fellow dancer,
as is my right.  So I look, perhaps blankly, into her eyes, and do the
gypsy or swing or whatever.  I'll sometimes get comments like "cheer
up, it can't be that bad" or something like that.  If you dance all the
time, you're not gonna be sunny-side up every time, let's face it.

When I dance in a group of people, I feel that they can expect me (and
every individual) to be cooperative and attentive, but it's not fair
for them to expect me to be cheery.  So, if you don't like gypsies, we
don't ask you to fall in love with every woman you gypsy with.  Just do
the gyspy and get on with it.

	Andrew Tannenbaum   Interactive   Cambridge, MA   +1 617 661 7474
From: UROBIN@UNC.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: contra-gypsies
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:51:59 GMT

One of the most interesting things about the responses to Tom Wills's
gypsy comments is that all 10 I've seen were from men.  What does that
mean?  And why do you supposes the move is called a gypsy, anyhow?
 
For those of you who think that disliking a particular move means that
you ought not to be dancing, lighten up!  This is supposed to be a forum
to generate discussion, not shut opinion off.  Of course, even though
I don't like gypsies much myself, I'd settle for a gypsy any day over
the "kissing contras" reportedly done in Ann Arbor.  Reminds me of the
one time I went to a WSD open house, and there was a mixer where you
had to hug every partner, and then the CALLER got to hug every woman
of every couple as she walked by him.  I just think certain things
should be discretionary; kissing, hugging, and gazing longingly at
another person all go in that category for me.
 
Which brings me to my main objection to gypsies, which Terry Friedman
touched on in his comments.  Down here where Tom and I both dance there
are several local callers who like gypsies so much you just know that
a good number of the dances they call will have a gypsy, and it's
usually of the meltdown variety.  Even if the first is fun, by the
fourth gypsy dance you're pretty much gazed out.  Also, these particular
callers just about order the dancers to flirt outrageously and fall into
a swing when you can't stand it any more (I'll say), which pretty much
removes any spontaneity the move might have had.  So, a note to callers,
vary the dances, and don't be tellin' the dancers HOW to have a good
time.  Usually we manage to figure that out.
 
Robin Schectman, Chapel Hill NC    urobin@unc.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
From: HF.SLK@forsythe.stanford.edu (Stewart Kramer)
Subject: Re: Dancing Do's and Don'ts
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:18:43 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.165236.20870@ads.com>,
charleen@ADS.COM (Charleen Bunjiovianna) writes:
>Helena says we should remember that we were all beginners once.  I say
>that we still are; the nature of the activity is such so that you can't
>say "I've learned everything I need to know to dance perfectly."  (With
>the possible exception of Stewart. :-)

Well, I beg to differ.  Dancing perfectly is not a matter of knowing
things, but of being perfect, which no one (including me) can be.

Challenge dancing depends on ruthlessly stamping out errors:
studying can teach you to pass the correct shoulder and turn the
correct direction, and experience can make you aware of mental traps
(e.g., forgetting interrupts, misparsing nested concepts, etc.) and
"red flag" situations like Pass In vs. Quarter In (where knowledge
must fight against intuition), but nothing can be done about failure
to pay attention.

Currently, most of my errors are from hearing what I expect to hear
rather than what was said, or from hearing the name of one call and
thinking of a different call (like saying "Blue" while thinking
"Green").  In either case, I usually catch these errors unless
something distracts me (because I've studied the flow of the calls
so that I can recognize these errors in others and say helpful
things like "not Split" at appropriate times; this same ability
enables me to recognize the call that I'm doing, or that everyone
else is doing, so I can say "Roll the Line, not Roll 'Em" to
myself.)

Stewart Kramer
---
"With a sharp enough knife, you can halve your cake and eat it two."
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
From: tedcrane@cs.cornell.edu (Ted Crane)
Subject: Re: contra-gypsies
Organization: Tompkins County Computing, Ithaca, NY
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 20:05:04 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.133229.8726@tc.cornell.edu> viscuso@galileo.tc.cornell.edu (Paul Viscuso) writes:
>I enjoy the gypsy, and don't feel that it's really a forced artificial show of
>desire.  It's a fun dance move, nothing more, nothing less.  But then again, I
>have no trouble dancing with a man or a woman, or dancing the part of the 
>man or the woman.  I simply go to dances to dance.  
>Maybe I don't take life so seriously as others.

As has been said by several other responses to the original "request-for-
abolition-of-gyps", the gyp is no more or less contrived than other figures.
In particular, the original observation that a gypsy-meltdown (and, by
implication, the gyp itself) is of uncertain timing, etc. is incorrect.
Like every other figure in the contra- repertoire, it can be very exactly
timed.  The dance choreographer creates the feeling of the dance by adjusting
the timing, and the juxtaposition with the previous and following figures, to
create a certain mood in the dance.

Personally, I would agree with some responses that a gyp or a gypsy meltdown
_*taken out of context*_ is not the most exciting figure in the world and
may be uncomfortably flirtaceous for some dancers.  On the other hand, a
gyp that is well-placed in a dance can be a wonderful, exciting figure.  A
gypsy meltdown can also be very effective.

...and if you really can't stand to look someone in the eyes, just look
at their shoulder.  Who knows?  It might be a cold shoulder anyway...
-- 
- ted crane, alias (tc)                  tedcrane@cs.cornell.edu
From: jmangin@asrr.arsusda.gov (JULIE MANGIN)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Same sex partners
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:59:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: unix.204917


Back in 1986, I attended a small dance camp that had only 70 campers, 25
women and 45 men.  Needless to say, the men danced with each other, in
order for some of them to dance at all.  It wasn't unusual for an entire
square to be entirely of men.  So, they began wearing bandanas on their
head, in a way that a woman would, if they were dancing the woman's part.
This prevented a lot of confusion, and everybody got to dance.  The women
made a special effort to dance with different men, too.  Once, later in the
week, I asked a man to dance, and he said "no, thanks, I have a partner."
Then I watched as he and his male partner joined the contra line.  I was
momentarily baffled, but then realized how good it was that these men had
gotten beyond gender roles, and reached the essence of the dance experience.
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
From: jlb@hounix.org (Joel Breazeale)
Subject: Re: More on the great allemande controversy
Organization: Houston Unix Users Group
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:13:47 GMT

In article <70110@ut-emx.uucp> anita@ut-emx.uucp (Anita Cochran) writes:
>In article <713@shaman.wv.tek.com>, georgec@bounder.wv.tek.com (George Clark) writes:
>> This is probably going to really sound dumb...
>  
>> In the Northwest when we allemande(left) at a WSD we take a 
>> left forearm grip and not a hand grip.  This also holds true
>> for contra dances that I used to attend in the area.
>  
A followup via e-mail revealed that the contra dance was a "contra club"
organized in the modern square dance community, hence the relationship
with the movements of the same community.

>> Are we different from everyone else or am I just not
>> comprehending what everyone is saying.
>
>No, you are not different in the NW in the WSD world but the discussion
>has been in contras and apparently in contras where these people
>dance the grip is different than in WSD.  The Callerlab approved way of
>teaching a left allemande is a forearm grip and that is the only way I
>have seen it done regardless of where people learned the WSD.  This
>move is one reason that long sleeve shirts are customary for men since
>sweaty forearms are unpleasant to grip!
>
I thought that in New England they used hands in WSD.  New Englanders do it 
their way (good for you!).  Maybe I'm wrong -- how about it, some of the
current dancers at Tech Squares can say what's standard these days?
It's been too long (see you on the 28th).

--Joel
jlb@hounix.org
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
From: tpermutt@eng.umd.edu (Thomas Permutt)
Subject: Beyond gender
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 13:31:53 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering

jmangin@asrr.arsusda.gov (JULIE MANGIN) writes:

>week, I asked a man to dance, and he said "no, thanks, I have a partner."
>Then I watched as he and his male partner joined the contra line.  I was
>momentarily baffled, but then realized how good it was that these men had
>gotten beyond gender roles, and reached the essence of the dance experience.
>
If you think the "essence of the dance experience" is something "beyond
gender roles"--well, the Kowalskis and the DuBois got just a different
notion on this thing.

Tom Permutt
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
From: goodill_eric@tandem.com (Eric Goodill)
Subject: Would you use a database that kept track of dances done in your area?
Organization: Tandem Computers, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 01:50:39 GMT

Hi there,

I have written such a beast and am considering putting in the effort needed
to make is useful to other dance groups.  First, it runs under HyperCard
on the Macintosh.  This might eliminate a lot of you.

What my program does is keep track of what dance was called at each of four
different English coutry dance series that we have here in the Bay Area.
It stores the name of the dance, the date it was done, who called it, and
what series it belongs to.  A series might be something like the 1st and
3rd Fridays of each month.

I've worked quite a bit on the user interface and think it's pretty easy
to use.  The dances that are in it are currently all English country, but
they could be anything.  It learns dances as they are entered and then
remembers then for the future.

It's designed so that each caller (or some other person who attends a given
series regularly) enteres the dances done after a dance event.  Then that
data is exported and given to the keeper of the master copy of the area
(in our case, the Bay Area) database.  The data is incorporated into the
master, and a new copy of the master is given back to that person.

The program generates various reports such as what dances where done at the
2nd Wednesday dance 3 months ago, all the dances done by a given caller,
all dances done in a given series, and all the times any dance was done
anywhere.  In addition, it can also make histograms of the most
popular dances.  This last one may seem silly, but out of town callers
have told me they find it useful to see what kind of repertoire the dancers
in the area have.  It helps them set their program.

We've been using it here for a while and find it useful.  If there seems
to be interest, and I actually get the project done, I envision that I'd
make it available through CDSS for a nominal fee.

Let me know what you think.  Any comments or suggestions?  Might you
want to use such a gizmo?

Cheers, Eric
goodill_eric@tandem.com, Cupertino, California
From: speer@anchor.cs.colorado.edu (Rick Speer)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: IFD: England, south, in May
Summary: request for info
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:47:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: colorado.1992Apr16.004706.29330
Followup-To: speer@cs.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

I will be in England for about a week beginning May 16,
around London, Winchester and Bristol. Does anyone know
a place in that area where I can take in some interna-
tional folk-dancing during that time? If you post an an-
swer please e-mail it to me too; I read this group a lot
but am not sure our receipt of mail is 100% complete.
Thanks.


Rick
speer@cs.colorado.edu
From: stenberg@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Portland, Oregon - who what and where
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:59:46 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

Two friends, Europeans presently in Latin America are going to Portland,,
Oregon for a conference and would like information about folk-dancing
there. Because they do not have Usenet where posted, email would be
appreciated to 
		jukka.korva@helsinki.fi
(or even to me)
Thanks.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dag Stenberg                            stenberg@cc.helsinki.fi
Department of Physiology                stenberg@finuh.bitnet
University of Helsinki                  tlx: 1002125 finuh sf
Siltavuorenpenger 20 J                  fax: int.+358-0-1918681
SF-00170 Helsinki, Finland              tel: int.+358-0-1918532
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: LBCOTTER@ECUVM1.BITNET@vms.cis.pitt.edu (MICHAEL COTTER)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: BLACK MOUNTAIN SPRING FESTIVAL
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:02:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: unix.204611

*From:	IN%"LBCOTTER@ECUVM1.BITNET"  "MICHAEL COTTER"  7-APR-1992 13:26:30.12
*Subj:	BLACK MOUNTAIN SPRING FESTIVAL


Just received in the mail:  flyer announcing the Black Mountain Spring
Festival May 22-25, Black Mountain, NC (near Asheville).  About 50
performers are listed:  folk, contra, blues, swing dance, Celtic, African
drumming, etc.  "Featured performers:" Goose Creek Symphony, Norman and
Nancy Blake, & Ada.  Limited registration.  Prices range from $65 for the
weekend to $22 Sat. only.  Camp or bunk or stay in town (what we did last
October).
 
Write for info to the Festival at: P.O. Box 216, Black Mountain, NC 28711;
phone 704/669-4546; fax 704/662-7046.
 
We (my wife and I) thoroughly enjoyed it last October: contra-danced almost
8 hrs, except for an afternoon break listening to a pick-up group playing
Irish reels (I guess); we couldn't last until the midnight set. Wonderful
setting, too.
 
Anyone who wants to load the complete program is welcome to do so.
 
--Michael Cotter, East Carolina University