HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Juan Gonzales (40+ homers before age 23)
From: grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner)
Date: 13 Sep 92 17:09:35 EDT
Organization: Harvard University Dept. of Mathematics
In-reply-to: demers@cs.ucsd.edu's message of 13 Sep 92 19:37:53 GMT

In article <38015@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, David DeMers writes:

> In article <5773@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>>It seems that not long ago it was fairly common to see 17, 18 and 19 year
>>old kids playing at the major league level.  Now a days it's a rarity.

> I don't think  it was ever "common".  Yount, Griffey Jr, Gooden
> are current players who started early.  We should note that most
> everyone who does come up early and succeeds has a great career.
> Bill James has some discussion of this in some abstract or other.

It's in the 1987 Abstract.  However, it is only young *hitters* who tend
to show dramatic improvement; pitchers who are successful before age 23
tend to blow out their arms.

>>With guys like Yount starting their careers at 18 and playing 19 or more 
>>full seasons to reach their various career highs (hit, hrs sbs whatever)
>>is it realistic to expect the guys that come up today at 21, 22 or 23 years
>>of age to be able to approach the career numbers of the older players.

But the records aren't likely to be broken by average players; players
who are good enough to threaten records are also likely to be good
enough to play at age 20.  Griffey was 19 as a rookie; Alomar, 20;
Sierra, 20; Canseco, 21; Gonzalez, 21.  And homers at ages 19-21 aren't
that important for career totals, because power develops later.  Aaron
was 20 as a rookie, but hit 13, 27, and 26 homers in his first three
years.

There are a few players who miss their chance to come up early, either
because they are in college or because someone decides not to call them
up.  Wade Boggs and Frank Thomas both lost several years in which they
could have been building up their career totals.  (Thomas still has a
chance to break Ruth's record for walks.)

--
David Grabiner, grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu
"We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary."
"Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Disclaimer: I speak for no one and no one speaks for me.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Re: Times on Base: all-time records and Frank Thomas
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:15:59 GMT

In article <5592@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>Thus spake chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane):
>
>>In article <5580@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>
>>> Here are, as best I can find them, the all-time records for career times
>>> reaching base (H+BB+HBP), and times reaching base per game (among players
>>> with at least 3000 times reaching base).
>
>>If you include HBP, then why don't you include reaching on errors and 
>>reaching on a fielder's choice?
>
[HBP stuff gone]
>
>As for reaching on errors, the few studies that have been done on this (Elias
>is the one that comes to mind) show that this, too, is a skill.  Certain
>players tend to reach on errors much more frequently than others, year after
>year.  This makes sense; players who run fast (Shawon Dunston) and/or hit the
>ball very hard (Jack Clark) will reach on errors more often than those who
>don't do either, or fail to put the ball into play (Rob Deer).  This is a 
>skill, with positive value to the team, and should be counted.
>
>Fielders' choice is different.  FC's usually occur when the fielder could have
>put you out with a routine play, but instead chose to put out some other runner
>with an equally routine play.  It's worse than an ordinary out, in that an
>ordinary out at least might advance other runners ahead of you.  It is totally
>unlike reaching on an error, and really is due to circumstances beyond the
>batter's control.
>
But in certain circumstances that FC can be big.  If the batter (Jeff Branson)
is hitting with one out in the bottom of the ninth, runners at first and
third, and he grounds up the middle, just beating the relay to avoid the
double play, while (Paul O'Neill) dashes home for the winning run...

RStimets


From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:04:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Why aren't there more baseball player actors?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

> >There's Bob Uecker
> >I suppose, but other than that I can't think of anybody.
> 
> There was Chuck Connors, the "Rifleman."

Reggie Jackson, _The Naked Gun_ ("I must kill the queen...")

David Justice just had a cameo on some soap opera.

I remember Don Drysdale on a _Brady Bunch_ episode once.

Bo Jackson (OK, so he played football too) commercials are more
acting-intensive than most - "you watch too much TV, kid" - watch for him to
make the jump.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
From: dougm@hal.com (Doug Moran)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Top 10: Why Bush should be the new baseball commissioner
Date: 10 Sep 1992 18:27:12 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.; Campbell, CA
Distribution: na,local
Reply-To: dougm@hal.com (Doug Moran)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gizmo.hal.com
In-reply-to: f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin)

In article <1992Sep9.132024.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu>, f67700241@violet (Greg Franklin) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.120626.13547@hemlock.cray.com>, rja@redwood26.cray.com (Russ Anderson) writes:
>> 1.  The "Draft Clinton" movement is bound to fail.
>
>Clinton?  What round was he drafted in?  Does he throw a 90+ fastball?

Yeah, but he's wild, bounces his curve in the dirt, and can't get his
change over.  In short, he'd make a great Giants reliever.
-- 
    Doug Moran        | A worldwide shortage of #2 pencils has left many tech
   dougm@hal.com      | writers unable to take notes or doodle during meetings,
 {...}!hal.com!dougm  | forcing them to pay attention or end the meeting by
 HaL Computer Systems | flinging live poisonous insects at the other attendees.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 11:11:09 EDT
From: Kevin Polcovich <KAP118@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: baseball/sport cards

If anyone is looking for any sort of card of a player in any sport,
especially the hot ones:Ripkin, Sheffield, Guzman-let me know.
Give me a price and condition and we will talk.  Serious inquirires only.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: Top 10 Commissioner Candidates
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:22:13 GMT


From Knight-Ridder Tribune news service columnist Dan Le Barard comes a list
of the top ten candidates to replace Vincent:

10. Pinocchio-he is a puppet
 9. Dan Quayle-he is a puppet
 8. Richard Nixon-experienced at doing the resignation thing
 7. George Steinbrenner-experienced at ruining the game both quickly and
			efficiently
 6. H Ross Perot-good at quitting
 5. Matt Sinatro (Mariner catcher)-With zero home runs since 1981, has the kind
				   of power the owners want
 4. Abraham Lincoln-Has high profile name and would not disagree with the
		    owners, since he is dead
 3. Harry Caray-can make baseball's troubles magically disappear by drinking
		several cases of Bud, then collapsing
 2. Meat Loaf-we like having an excuse to put his name in the sports pages.
 1. Satan-has good contacts who could put the finishing touches on sending
	  baseball straight to hell.


Don't shoot me, folks, I'm only the piano player.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 21:23:06 EDT
From: <TKN105@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: PHILLIES 15-MAN PROTECTED LIST

       YO, EVERYBODY!  I AM HAVING A PROBLEM COMING UP WITH THE 15 GUYS THE PHI
LLIES ARE GOING TO PROTECT.HERE IS MY LIST.  WRITE BACK AND TELL ME WHAT YOU TH
INK.
      1. JOHN KRUK             7. TERRY MULHOLLAND   13.MIKE HARTLEY
      2. MARIANO DUNCAN        8. CURT SCHILLING     14.TODD PRATT
      3. DAVE HOLLINS          9. TOMMY GREENE       15.RICKY JORDAN
      4. DARREN DAULTON        10.BEN RIVERA
      5. LENNY DYKSTRA         11.ANDY ASHBY
      6. WES CHAMBERLAIN       12.KIM BATISTE
From: rising@zoo.toronto.edu (Jim Rising)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Harkey's injury
Date: 12 Sep 92 16:30:25 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

Of course there's Glenallen Hill who injured himself on his carpet
while having a nightmare about spicders.  That may top Vince Coleman's
encounter with the tarp in the World Series!

Hay Joe, I'd add that "ornithological dweeb" to my .sig file, but not
being a "computer dweeb" I don't know how!
-- 
Name:     Jim Rising
Mail:     Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada    M5S 1A1
UUCP:     uunet!attcan!utzoo!rising 
BITNET:   rising@zoo.utoronto.ca
From: shadow@r-node.gts.org (Jay Chu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Jays 15
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:31:05 GMT
Organization: Public Access UNIX Information System

In article <Bu0rtC.Mrx@math.uwaterloo.ca> The FASS Theatre Company <fass@math.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
>Keeping in mind that Carter, Henke, Key, Lee, Maldonado, Winfield, and Cone
>are all up for free agency here are the 15 Jays I would protect:
>
>John Olerud 1B
>Robbie Alomar 2B
>Kelly Gruber 3B (sue me I've always liked Kelly)
You will be sued, not only by me, but by 50,000+ other jays fans.  Kelly
doesn't have to be protected.  His salary is over 3 mill.  He sucks this year.  No one will pick him up.  Leave him unprotected.
>Devon White CF
>Turner Ward OF
>Derek Bell OF
>Par Borders C
>Carlos Delgato (sp?) C
>Ed Sprague C
>Jack Morris P
>Juan Guzman P
>Todd StottlemeyerP
>Duane Ward P
>Mike Timlin P
>Randy Knorr C
> 
>I'm reading over this list and noticed I protected 4 catchers...hmmm...
>any other suggestions.
> 
>*******************************************************************************
>*******************************************************************************
>**                                                                           **
>**  I don't believe in casual sex...                                         **
>**                                  That's why I wear a tux.                 **
>**                                                                           **
>**  Lee.                                                                     **
>*******************************************************************************
>*******************************************************************************
>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: roy NL
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 22:36:28 GMT

In article <Bu9u1x.J4s@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets) writes:

>In what regard?  I think Piniella does a pretty good job managing hitters and
>the defense, though it seems now even he has begun to realize his weakness
>in managing the pitchers.  But what does this have to do with Sanders?
>He plays when it makes sense for him to play.  Remember, there are 6 quality
>starting outfielders on the Reds staff.
>Some, like Martinez and O'Neill are there because they can play damn good 
>defense, some, like Sanders and Braggs, are there because they have some
>POP on offense.  Sanders and Roberts are exceptionally speedy, too.  

Martinez has just been plain horrible offensively this year; his defensive
value is no justification to play him.

Since Martinez is an offensive void this year, I saw no reason to play him
instead of Sanders.

(BTW, O'Neill had not been just playing because of "damn good defense" but
also of "good offense."  Other than Walker and Bonilla, there was perhaps
no other RF who is clearly better than O'Neill offensively.)

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rkidwell@stsci.edu (Richard C. Kidwell,mgr)
Subject: Re: Stupid Injuries (was Re: Life  6.F)
Originator: rkidwell@slash.stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:31:44 GMT

>>>(g) Atlanta Braves pitcher John Smoltz gave himself five-inch-long
>>>    welts in March when he tried to iron his polo shirt while wearing it.
>>>    "I've ironed that way five or six times," he said, "and never had
>>>    it happen."
>> 
>>Sort of reminds me how Kevin Mitchell put himself on the DL; he pulled a
>>muscle in his rib-cage while throwing up.
>> 
> A few years ago, Greg Harris (Boston) had to go on the DL after he hurt his 
> arm flicking sunflower seeds in the bullpen.  
> 
> Of course, Mike Harkey's recent injury (injured while doing cartwheels in the
> dugout) is just as bad...
> 
> This might be inaccurate, but I think Alan Trammell injured himself a few
> years back when he fell of the stilts he was wearing as a part of a Halloween
> costume.  Bet the Tigers management was just thrilled about that one...
> 

Was it Ron Darling who pruned his finger with a hedge trimmer a couple
years ago?

rck
-- 
  >>>>>>>> .sigs are so tired, they expose the rookies instantly <<<<<<<<
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda)
Subject: Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 18:53:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.132127.13850@cs.wayne.edu> dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane) writes:
>
>Actually Fryman has a higher OBP than Fielder (.324 > .318), but the
>main reason he is more valuable is that he plays about average defense at
>a very difficult position, while Fielder plays lousy defense at a very
>easy position.
>

That's just not true.  I see about 30 to 40 Tiger games a year (I was` a
pressbox scorer for STATS Inc) and Cecil is at least an average 1b man
defensively.  I think he gets a bad rap because most people look at his
size and say "Wow, that fat tub of goo must have no range!", but he
actually moves laterally very well.  In fact sometimes this works to his
disadvantage because he goes after balls hit to his right that he should
probably leave to Lou.  I don't know if anyone has DA stats for Cecil,
but I would wager, w/o looking, that Cecil is at least at the league
average for 1b.


>--
>David Frohardt-Lane   dfl@math.wayne.edu 
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Go Tigers, Lions, Pistons, Red Wings and Wolverines !!!!!!!!!!
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


c-ya

Sean
From: jef@crane.aa.ox.com (Jeff Portser)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Jim Thorpe
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:34:25 GMT
Organization: OTA Limited Partnership -- Ann Arbor, MI
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: crane.aa.ox.com
Summary: looking for addtional information on Jim Thorpe

My son is doing a book reports on the American Indian athlete Jim Thorpe
can anyone provide me with additional information due to my local library does  
not have have enough current to satisfy my son.  Thank you.

-- 
USMail:   OTA Limited Partnership, One Manhattanville Rd. Purchase, N.Y. 10577
Phone:	  +1 914 694-5800	FAX:	+1 914 694-5831 
UUCP:	  <backbone>!umich!ny06!jef
Internet: jef@ox.com
From: str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM (Todd Rader)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 11 Sep 1992 17:49:26 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: maredsous

In article 898@ccsvax.sfasu.edu, z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu () writes:
%
%	Yeah, I've noticed. Several people think that their views are the only
%views, and wage the equivalent of a Crusade on the net whenever anyone dares
%disagree with them. Not that I really care. I take baseball as entertainment,
%not as some college statistics problem like many on this group do who try to
%Enlighten us Heathens.
%
%Brandon Cope

Brandon, I think you have your chronology wrong.  From my newsfeed, this is
how I've followed the debate:

<some "stathead">:  Cecil Fielder isn't much better than avarage.  He isn't even
  the MVP of his team  Fryman, Phillips, Whitaker, and Tettleton are more
  valuable.
  
<somebody pipes up>:  What??  You're crazy!  Look at all those RBI's.

<several "statheads>:  RBI's don't tell you much about value.

<several non-"statheads">:  Yes they do.

etc....

You tell me who is Enlightening the Heathens (TM):  the one(s) who opined
originally, or the one(s) that posted arguments to the opinion(s) given?

-todd
From: rdetweil@boi.hp.com (Richard Detweiler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cubs Make-Up Game Scheduled?
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:21:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise Printer Division (LAFS)

In article <1992Sep4.190356.8801@gtephx.UUCP> bentzr@gtephx.UUCP (Richard S. Bentz) writes:
>
>Following the
>3-game San Diego series (at home), the Cubs finish the season playing
>home and away series with each of their eastern division opponents.
>This only adds up to 161 games (132 + 29).
>
>I presume that the missing game was postponed due to inclement weather. 
>Is it against a divisional opponent?  If so, when is the double-header
>going to be played?
>
>What's the scoop?
>
>Rick
>-- 
>Richard S. Bentz        AG Communication Systems        Phoenix, Arizona


It's a makeup game with the Cardinals for a washout at Chicago so I would
think it would be made up during their Sept. 18-20 series at Wrigley.


Dick Detweiler : rdetweil@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: brock@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Bradley W. Brock)
Subject: Re: AL Cy Young update
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:52:36 GMT


In article <lbc0esINNeli@spim.mti.sgi.com> timl@zulu.mti.sgi.com (Tim Layman)  
writes:
> 	I've got a question. When was the last time a pitcher on a LAST PLACE  
team...
> 
> 1) Won a Cy Young?
> 2) Won 20 games?
> 3) Won the "triple crown"?
> 
Steve Carlton, 1972, is probably the answer to at least one of these questions?
--
Bradley W. Brock, Department of Mathematics
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology  | "Honor one another above yourselves."
brock@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu       | -Paul of Tarsus to the Romans
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Amazing Walk Total
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:02:42 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

In article <1427@swuts.sbc.com>, cpg4160@swuts.sbc.com (Dan McCue) writes:
   
|> While this is not a record, I read something in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch
|> about Tewks trying to become the third pitcher in history to have as many
|> or more wins than walks in a season (minimum 10 decisions, I believe).
|> Would someone who saw that article or has easy access to those stats please
|> correct or clarify?

Out comes the trusty Franklin, once again. Since 1900, it says:

		           W/L    BB
  1970 Dick Hall           10-5    6
  1910 Deacon Phillippe    14-2    9
  1913 Christy Matthewson  25-11  21
  1919 Slim Sallee         21-7   20
  1914 Christy Matthewson  24-13  23
  1965 Dick Hall           11-8   11


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: TW.N82@isumvs.iastate.edu (BOB.PEDERSEN)
Subject: consistency stats
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 02:57:20 GMT

This is a listing of the total number of games behind
each team in baseball was at season's end from 1982-1991.  It
represents an attempt on my part to measure consistency in
 recent years.

Data was taken from the _1992 Baseball Almanac_, published
by Publications International, Ltd.  GB totals were entered onto a
spreadsheet to produce the totals.


A.L.East       Totals
Baltimore          161.5
Boston              95.5
Cleveland            234
Detroit             88.5
Milwaukee          132.5
New York           115.5
Toronto             56.5   Lowest in division, lowest
                              in majors

A.L. West
California           117
Chicago              129
Kansas City          108
Minnesota            161
Oakland              102   Lowest in division
Seattle            214.5
Texas              188.5

N.L. East
Chicago              179
Montreal           150.5
New York              92   Lowest in division
Phiiladelphia      180.5
Pittsburgh           190
St. Louis            123

N.L. West
Atlanta            181.5
Cincinnati         132.5
Houston            119.5
Los Angeles           74   Lowest in league
San Diego            117
San Francisco      122.5


--
Bob Pedersen
Recent graduate and flunkie, Iowa State University
Future Library Science student, University of Iowa
From: aardvark@locus.com (Warren Usui)
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks on the Net
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:50:28 GMT

Gary Huckaby, jerk or minor prophet -- next on Geraldo!!

Many people seem to be bothered by recent postings that had personal attacks
on various individuals.  Although they may be deemed unsuitable by various
readers, I for one cannot see how anyone can take them seriously.  I
personally have met only two other people who post on rec.sport.baseball so
I assume that most people on this network have never met many of the others.
That being the case, I can't see how any comments about an individual's
brains, looks, or sexual habits can be taken as anything but nonsense.  In
fact, I've forgotten the names of everyone that Huckaby has insulted.

I assume Mr. Huckaby is a fine, upstanding individual and that all those
sheep were consenting adults.

-- 
Warren Usui
aardvark@locus.com
uunet!lcc!aardvark

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball