HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: haertig@gmd.de (Hermann Haertig)
Subject: Treks/Horses in Argentina
Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, Germany
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 09:15:40 GMT

Can anybody recommand
 * real good(nice scenary, not crowded) treks
 * good places for horse back riding
in Argentina (e.g. but not only in Mendaza area 
and Patagonia)?

Thanks in advance

--hermann haertig (Hermann.Haertig@gmd.de)
From: ravi@hls.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Cold feet
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:08:24 GMT

Hi,
	This might sound silly but how do you keep your feet warm inside
a sleeping bag ? I went camping to Sequioa during Thanksgiving with a 
10-15F mummy bag. The temperature was about 20F in the night.I was very
comfortable inside except for the feet( inspite of having my socks on)
which were cold throughout. Except for a little breathing space at the 
top I was well covered up. Does anyone have any suggestions or comments ?

thanks
ravi
ravi@hls.com
  
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mack@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack ( Sun ))
Subject: Re: HOLLOW POINTS in the backcountry
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 14:36:26 GMT

(Brent "Woody" Moss) writes:

>I wonder what would happen if I took some poison of some sort
>and put it in the hollow point of a bullet and then sealed the 
>end with wax. That way if I hit some small animal non leathaly, say 
>in the leg, It would probably die eventually. My tracking skills
>would then be honed as a result of the search. [...] 
>[...]  I think this would make the "sport" of the hunt quite
>exhilerating!
>
>Your ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I don't think this is a good idea.  The tracking skills of the hunter
are to be used before the shot is taken.  The best shot is one that
kills the game instantly.  To hope (or plan) for anything different
is not "hunting".  Additionally, just what are you going to tell the
game warden you are hunting for when he approaches you?  You had better
have a hunting license on you while walking through the woods with a
gun or risk having your gun, your truck, and anything else you've got
confiscated (donated to the state). 

Besides, just what are you going to do with that rabbit/squirrel/chip-
munk after you blast his little body to smithereens with these hollow
point bullets?  Why not be a *REAL* man and shoot a bear, mountain lion,
or hell, why not an alligator; anything that has a damn good chance of
killing YOU after you piss it off?  ;-)

-- 
Gregg Mack                  ---------- __o       __o       __o       __o
gmack@paceline.sps.mot.com  -------- _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_
Motorola RISC uProcessors   ------- (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)
Austin, Texas  USA          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: x90watz@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Where to find .GIF files of backcountry stuff???
Date: 13 Dec 92 17:32:46 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

Hi netters,

Anybody know where I can get any neat .GIF files of backcountry stuff
(mountains, etc.)????

Thanks a ton!

-Mike-
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mustang@hardy.u.washington.edu (Brian Watson)
Subject: Merry Christmas, all!
Reply-To: mustang@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:32:56 GMT

   Hello, everybody!  I just wanted to waste a little of your time and
wish all of you in the US of A a very merry Christmas and the best of luck
in the new year.  May all your backcountry, climbing, trekking adventures
be fun and safe.  Have fun, everybody!

				A friend at UW,
				Brian Watson


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: Yosemite concessionaire chosen
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:44:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

>In article <1992Dec18.162631.22282@unocal.com>,
>stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>>
>>Friday's LA Times reports that the Deleware North Concessionaire Inc. was
>>choosen to replace Curry Company.  This $1.2 billion company runs concessions
>>at 70 sports places, airports, hotels and zoos.  This is its first national
>>park.  The concessionaire will pay 20% of gross to the Park Service and pay
>>for cleanups.  20 years ago the comapny was fined for laundering money in
>>Los Vegas, but claims that era is in the past.
>>Most of the competing bids placed financial limits on cleanup costs.  A bid
>>by a company organized by environmentalists was rejected because "they did
>>not present required evidence of an ability to fulfill the stated financial
>>requirements."  Some concerned members of Congress said they will review the
>>decision.

Forgive my asking the obvious and hackneyed question, but why on earth
is the Park Service sponsoring shopping centers in the middle of National
Parks?

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: First Aid Liability
X-Xxdate: Fri, 18 Dec 92 08:13:49 GMT
Organization: NT/BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:14:57 GMT

In article <10985@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> Hal F Lillywhite,
hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM writes:
>Another aspect is your obligation to help someone.  As far as I
>know, no state requires anyone to give medical attention in a
>volunteer capacity.  You can walk away and forget it if you want to.

Not quite.  I am also a US citizen and Red Cross trained and thank God
not a lawyer.  We were warned that although obscure, there was the
following possibility:  If you are currently certified and neglect to
give aid where no other aid is available, you can be liable.  In other
words, if you pass an accident where no other help is on the scene, you
neglect to render aid, and it can be proved that you saw the situation
and failed to help, you are liable.  This is sort of the reverse of the
GS law and would be hard to prove, but hey that's what they told us.

I go along with the previous posts on the other points.

***************************************************************
************ Laissez le bontemps rouler ****  JB  *************
* no e-mail address, but if you feel inclined: 919/992-2489 * 
***************************************************************
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: East Vail Chutes Avalanche Death
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:35:47 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Dec17.225723.19923@etnibsd.uucp> vsh@etnibsd.uucp (Steve Harris) writes:

>>>  [ Reports hearing that "friend" failed to notify authorities about skier
>>>    caught in avalanche ]

>Whatever the truth, I expect the "friend" will be suffering greatly as a
>result of this experience.  I would not want to be in his shoes.

That is certainly true.  He will have nightmares for a long time.
Indeed it is not uncommon for someone in this situation to end up in
treatment for mental problems.  As if his own conscience were not
enough a detective is probably investigating to see if he had
anything to gain by this death.  Can you imagine the questions the
detective has been asking?  This is not a pleasant situation.
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:9710 misc.forsale:33629
From: jdeifik@isi.edu (Jeff Deifik)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,misc.forsale
Subject: Three sleeping bags for sale
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:53:44 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: USC/ISI

Camp 7 Cerro Torre 550 fill down bag, long, right zipper, red, size is
32*90 inches, 39 oz fill, total weight 5 lbs 2 oz.  Nominal -10 degrees F,
used about 5 days. Asking $150

Sierra Designs top of the line Polarguard bag, with 2 extra lbs of fill,
large, left zipper, many colors, size is 28*90 inches, with 5 lbs 4 oz of
fill, rated at -5 degrees F, but there is 7lbs 4 oz fill, used about 3 days,
Asking $150

Slumberjack Survivor II, Quallofill II, standard size, left zipper, 2
lbs of fill. Nominal 20 degrees F, used about 30 days, could use a washing.
Asking $60
--
	Jeff (turbo) Deifik		Internet: jdeifik@isi.edu
Phone:	(310) 822-1511 x241 work	(818) 347-3428 home
Bitnet:	jdeifik%isi.edu@cunyvm.cuny.edu	CSnet:    jdeifik%isi.edu@relay.cs.net
Uucp:	...!{harvard,rutgers,uunet,sun,ucbvax,uiucdcs,talcott}!isi.edu!jdeifik
From: diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: reheatable handwarmers
Date: 16 Dec 1992 19:00:53 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: bohr.phys.ksu.edu

Well, the post on cold feet reminded me of this burning question that I have 
(as in the sort of burning you get when warm blood finally returns to cold
extremities)

I've seen all these handwarming products and the disposable kind hold no
interest for me from an ecological and weight minimization point of view. 
But I'm really curious about these packs that you throw in boiling water to
recharge and then they presumably store the energy until you decide to
release it.

some questions:

By what mechanism do they work?
How do you work them?
How well do they work?
How long does it take to recharge them?
How long do they take to discharge?
Any finite lifetime?
Can I make hot-drinks out of the water that I boil the bag in or is this
unsafe?
etc...

My biggest problem is putting cold feet in cold boots, my feet just give up
the fight.  I have a vision of hopping out of bed, cracking two warming
packs and stuffing them in my frozen boots and then slipping my tootsies
into warm (like 70degree) boots after I've eaten and packed.

-David Iverson



--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu
From: mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Marc Gabriel)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Lyme Disease E-mail Network...
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:47:09 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>EWALKER@utmmg.med.uth.tmc.edu (Eldon Walker) writes:
>
>If you go to the doctor when you have got the first symptoms (erythema
>migrans, nausea etc) LD can be cured with short courses of simple anti-
>biotics. If you have had LD for years and you get the late symptoms
>LD is treated by a few weeks intra venous cure of kephalosporins
>(3rd generation) and after that you have to eat oral antibiotics for
>months. (At least this is the way LD is treated here in Finland.)

Unfortunately, that is a bit simplistic.
* 40% of LD patients don't get the erythema migrans (rash).  How are these
  patients dignosed?  Nausea alone?
* The antibody tests are universally acknowledged to be not very accurate.
  So how do you diagnose?  Is arthritic pain and documented exposure in an
  endemic area enough?  What about Bell's palsy?  Carditis?
* In the past 12 months, about half a dozen papers and abstracts have been
  published documenting the spirochete's ability to evade antibiotic
  treatment.  I actually know IV treated patients who are _culture positive_.

  The conclusion is that we are far from closing the book on LD.  We currently
don't know enough to be able to manage the epidemic in endemic areas.  I
formed the Lyme Disease E-mail Network to disseminate the latest info on this
still mysterious illness.

-Marc.
-- 
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
             Marc C. Gabriel '93    -  U.C. Box 545  -
               (215) 882-0138        Lehigh University
              mcg2@Lehigh.EDU       Bethlehem, PA 18015
                Compu$erve: >internet:mcg2@Lehigh.edu
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 I'm still thinking about the witty one-liner I'm supposed to put here.
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: HOLLOW POINTS in the backcountry
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:37:58 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Dec18.181655.22197@dsd.es.com> (Brent "Woody" Moss) writes:
>
|I wonder what would happen if I took some poison of some sort
|and put it in the hollow point of a bullet and then sealed the 
|end with wax. That way if I hit some small animal non leathaly, say 
|in the leg, It would probably die eventually. My tracking skills
|would then be honed as a result of the search.   I was thinking
|of trying this idea out the next time I'm in the backcountry.
|Does anyone know of a natural poison from a plant that I could
|use? I wouldn't want to be using some environmental hazard. I
|killed an elk last week; I was thinking of using some of it's
|tallow for the wax, rather than a petroleum based product.
|Any suggestions on the type of animal that would put up a good
|chase? I think this would make the "sport" of the hunt quite
|exhilerating!

I'd suggest going for a grizzly.

-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira        | Auspex Systems | "Ask me about my vow of silence." |
| johnf@auspex.com    | Santa Clara CA |                                   |
+==========================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Subject: Re: HOLLOW POINTS in the backcountry
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:17:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.181655.22197@dsd.es.com> (Brent "Woody" Moss) writes:
>I wonder what would happen if I took some poison of some sort
>and put it in the hollow point of a bullet and then sealed the 
>end with wax. That way if I hit some small animal non leathaly, say 
>in the leg, It would probably die eventually. My tracking skills
>would then be honed as a result of the search.   I was thinking
>of trying this idea out the next time I'm in the backcountry.

Nothing like a little disinformation to try to give hunters a bad name.
Eh, Woodie? Good try but even the world's biggest idiot wouldn't buy
a load that smells this rotten.
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * Life only admits two states: 
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * growing and dying. So what,
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * if I've put on a little weight?
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.skiing,rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Avalanche Information
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 06:52:34 GMT

In article <lippgrINNgb5@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM
(Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
>however, the reason I wanted first hand
>"I saved a life" stories is that having been involved in a number
>of search and rescues, a lot of the techniques that you practice
>go out the window when an emergency arrives(mainly because everyone
>goes into panic mode).
>
>I would be interested in knowing how long it took to find the
>buried tranceiver in practice.  However, I think the situation
>would be very different(unless really cool heads prevailed) if
>you knew that there was a real person under the snow and not just
>a buried tranceiver.  Walking a very precise grid and sticking to
>the "search plan" might be a lot harder to do when failure carries
>a much, much higher price.  When human lives are on the line, I think
>we all tend to behave a bit differently.

Well, I suggest to you to up the ante in training and do what dog trainers
do, use a body.  Yours or a partners.

Find a meadow (sizeable), it needs to have a minimum of 3 ft. of snow
and it should be tracked up a bit.  The trainee does not observe part 1: a 
small team of people dig a burrow cramped for one person.  Part 2, you or
another person gets in.  You should wear warm waterproof clothing.
It is generally a good idea to wear a helmet and to have a small shovel
if you should feel a little cramped. Take a watch with night visible display.
Synchronize watches for when the trainee starts.  Your partners then bury you
carefully concealing your position like a trap and to insure you have an air
hole.  Release the trainee from a location different from whence other entered.
The partner stops the trainee just short of stepping on your face.
[The dog has to learn to dig.]
Very simple.  All this is used in the process of training avalanche dogs.
You have given the trainee a real body, a time limit (until you feel
clastrophoebia set in), and some real contraints.  For comparison, use
another hole and use different cues like a few inches of avalanche cord and
see how long that takes.  You will appreciate the speed of beepers.
If your partners have problems using them, find better partners.  Numerous
meadows are suitable for this (near Kirkwood for instance), something 2x beeper
range on a side squared is adequate.
I'll shovel and hide you if you want (or find you).

The story about climbers walking around crevaces was published a few years back
in Ascent (Allen's favorite issue).  Evolution in action.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
	"Because I'm grumpy when I'm not climbing.  ...  And my wife can't
	stand me when I'm grumpy."  --Doug Scott.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.skiing,rec.climbing
From: blanchad@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (BLANCHARD DAVID OWEN)
Subject: Re: Colorado Avalanche Information
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:03:53 GMT

>In article <likn77INN7kd@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
>>
>>But, seriously.  Has anyone on this net ever been saved(or have saved)`
>>someone with an avalanche beacon.  My friends who use these things
>>say that they are very hard to use and that unless you practice a lot,
>>your chances of finding the victim in time is really small.


In article <Dec14.165325.37231@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>Well, I've never saved a life with one, but I have found plenty of them
>which were buried during practice.  I think they are reasonable easy to
>use if you learn to use them correctly.  You do not simply wander
>around pointing the receiver in various directions while trying to
>home in on the buried device.  Rather, you work a grid pattern.

I agree with Wayne.  I have never needed to use it in a real life or death
situation, but have had many opportunities to practice and can find a
beacon within a few minutes.  The grid pattern is absolutely essential to
finding the other beacon.  Holding the beacon correctly is also required.


-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| David O. Blanchard      DISCLAIMER:  I speak for no one but myself.      |
| dob@esg1.nssl.erl.gov                                                    |
| Boulder, Colorado                                                        | 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rowlan@lechuguilla.mcs.anl.gov (John_Rowlan)
Subject: Re: East Vail Chutes Avalanche Death
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Chicago, Illinois
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:49:10 GMT

From Hal F Lillywhite:
>If a sheriff's office gets a report that, "My friend says
>his buddy didn't come back from skiing," they will almost always
>follow up on it.  The standard SAR training emphasizes the
>importance of taking all such reports seriously.
>

Hal,

You should keep in mind that sheriff's offices almost always wait 24 hours
before acting upon a missing person report.  I never did understand this, but
when I was living in Colorado and working on a MSR team, we were constantly
sent out to find hunters and cross-country skiers who had vanished OVER 24
hours before we were notified.

I believe that the nature of the case will dictate whether or not they wait,
so it is vital to give the authorities more information than "my friend didn't
come back from such and such".

As far as this Vail thing goes, the best action for this "friend" would have
been to contact the Ski Patrol who would have been out the door almost
immediately !!!

Somebody mentioned the emotional strain and shock this guy might have
experienced.  Maybe that is true, but as they say, with "friends" like this
guy, who needs enemies ?

John

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Subject: Re: Cold feet
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:17:10 GMT

In article <BzDGpw.BvM@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> bobw@sad.hp.com (Bob Waltenspiel) writes:
>ravi@hls.com wrote:
>: 	This might sound silly but how do you keep your feet warm inside
>: a sleeping bag ?
>
>Last summer I met a couple of guys in the John Muir Wilderness who
>used rocks to keep thier feet warm.  They would heat a medium size
>(~1/2 cubic foot, how do you measure a rock?) next to their fire (not
>too close), wrap it in a canvas bag (or old pillowcase) just before
>bedtime and toss it the the foot of their bag for the night.  They
>told us about this when we were sharing lunch.  They took out one of
>the rocks and it was still warm from the night before.
>
>-Bob "Now kids, don't try this at home."

I do this all the time.  Let the rock warm for a couple of hours, then
wrap it in the towel and place it in the foot of the bag.  Works well.
A survival hint, several rocks warmed so and placed in a debris hut
can keep you warm through the coldest nights.

-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Chief of Tranquility  #My Opinions! NotIU's!#Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Base, Lawrence Co. IN # Legalize Explosives!#nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # Somewhere out on the  # Politicians prefer  #family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over# unarmed peasants.   #Space For Rent
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:9623 rec.skiing:8526 rec.climbing:4935
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.skiing,rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Colorado Avalanche Information
Date: 12 Dec 1992 21:43:03 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <1992Dec8.165520.27834@advtech.uswest.com> cole@advtech.uswest.com ( Cole Keirsey) writes:
>Heard my first report of an avalanch fatality in Colo. this weekend.
>The victim reportedly skied across the Vail boundary ropes to the east.
>There was one other person with the victim.  No beacons, no avalanche
>cord, no shovels.

Should add: no sense.

But, seriously.  Has anyone on this net ever been saved(or have saved)`
someone with an avalanche beacon.  My friends who use these things
say that they are very hard to use and that unless you practice a lot,
your chances of finding the victim in time is really small.

I don't want to hear any 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. hand stories about
rescues, I want to know if anyone on the net, has personally been
involved in an incident where a beacon saved a life.

Again, no related stories, I want personal experiences(i.e. 1st hand).

Bruce
From: ravi@hls.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re:Cold feet( Thanks for responses )
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:09:00 GMT

Thanks for the suggestions on my cold feet problem. For those who are 
interested in the responses, please request by e-mail.

ravi
ravi@hls.com
From: hjanssen@amiganet.chi.il.us (Hank Janssen)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Where to get Super Iditarod boot. (Timberland.?) ????????????
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:39:49 GMT
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems



I have been looking all over for somebody that sells the Super Iditarod boot
made by Timberland. UNtill now to no avail. I called Timberland and they told
me they where out of stock untill at least februari. But that i should be able
to get them from vendors, they gave me several names and i called them. (All
local ones), and of course only one had them and he only had size 9 1/2.
Figures since i wear 9.

Does anybody know where these boots are for sale. I hate to wait 3 months
before timberland can ship them again.

Any help would be very much apreciated.

Thanx,

------------------------------------------------------------------
Hank Janssen.                           IT IS BETTER TO BURN OUT
                                           THAN TO FADE AWAY.
EMAIL:  hjanssen@amiganet.chi.il.us
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry