HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Curtis Gibson <curt@quest.uucp>
Subject: Radar Question
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:23:51 GMT


From Curtis Gibson <curt@quest.uucp>

I would like to ask a question about a radars ability to distinguish
between different materials.  Will for example a 1 meter square of
aluminum foil, a 1 meter square of aluminum aircraft skin, a 1 meter
square of steel tank armor, (all samples are flat, the same size/shape,
viewed from the same angle, etc) appear the same to the radar and the
radar operator?  Thanks.

Obj NUG story:

When I was stationed at the US Army Field Station Okawana the new
people, called NUGs, ( New Useless Guy ) would be given a box with a
ST-1 (ST-one) in it to take to the maint section for repair.  The 
Maint Section always had to have another signature on some form before
the ST-1 could be turned in.  The NUG would be sent looking for the
one person who could sign the form.  From activety center to activity
center, from office to office until they had covered the Field Station
from top to bottom, their quarry always haveing just left for the X
shop about 5 minutes ago.  I suppose this gave the new person a chance
to meet the other people and see the Field Station and learn their
way around, but that &*$ @*#% ST-1 gets real heavy. 8^)

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: rbeville@tekig5.pen.tek.com
Subject: WWII BLIMP HANGAR BURNS
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:39:56 GMT


From rbeville@tekig5.pen.tek.com

	WWII BLIMP HANGAR BURNS
	by Bob Beville ( rbeville@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM )
	TILLAMOOK, OREGON, 23 August 1992.   Last night fire destroyed
	Hangar A of the local landmark TILLAMOOK NAVAL AIR STATION. In 
	the recent past the building had been used by a lumber company
	to store green lumber.  Lately, it was storing hay.  The hangar
	was totally destroyed; only the front and rear two door piers
	remain standing.  The intensity of the burning hay and structure
	created a local fire-storm, with a extra burst of wind gusts
	when the entire roof caved in, producing a huge fireball rolling
	into the sky.
	
	Hangar B, hundreds of yards away was not harmed.  It currently
	houses a dirigible museum, and was used by a firm developing
	lighter-than-air working cranes.

	As part of the Astoria Sector of the Northwest Coast Patrol District,
	TILLAMOOK NAS was completed at about the time Japanese submarine
	patrols were withdrawn from the Pacific Sea Frontier.  Able to 
	house up to nine blimps ( floor area of seven football fields ), the
	hangars were the largest unsupported roof buildings in the world.
	Blimp Squadron 33 patrolled the Oregon coast while 48 horse mounted
	Coast Guardsmen from Gearhart and Manzanita patrolled the beaches.
	Units of "War Dogs" were used to supplant manpower.  The governor
	ordered the beaches off limits to civilians from sunset to sunrise,
	for fear on a undetected beach landing in the fog and mist.

	Blimps K-87 and K-119 destroyed a floating mine off Greys Harbor on
	April 2, 1945.  Due to inactivity, coastal defence stations and beach
	patrolling wound down in '44 and '45 with personnel reassigned...

	Sources: Oregonian, 23 August 1992
	_SILENT SIEGE II - JAPANESE ATTACKS ON NORTH AMERICA IN WORLD WAR II_
	Bert Webber, Webb Research Group, Medford OR.

	that's -OWARI- from GLOWWORM-7-9-4
	best regards, rbeville@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
	Bob Beville, Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR 97077




Newsgroups: sci.military
From: andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Kevlar Body Armour vs. Kevlar Rounds
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organizatoin
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:33:31 GMT


From andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman)

In article <BtHwzH.Bpy@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> doi@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Daniel Kuan Li Oi) writes:
>	Kevlar is an aramid fibre, akin to nylon. It is not very hard
>but posseses great tensile strength. This in itself doesn't lend itself
>for armour piercing qualities.  To actually pierce body armour, the
>round must defeat the material, i.e. penetrate the fibres.  Most pistol
>rounds deform on impact and so give a larger surface area on which the
>jacket can stop it from penetrating so steel cored ammunition would give
>better penetration charateristics.  

Yup.  Other materials will also do.

>	Folklore has it that teflon coated bullets have good penetration
>characteristics, they can slip past the fibres, but as to the truth, I
>can only speculate.

Nope.  The teflon is for lubricating the barrel of the gun being used.
Leaving it off increases barrel wear but doesn't affect the
penetration characteristics.  BTW - A teflon spray will provide the
lubrication and they're readily available.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: swkmorri@nuscc.nus.sg (Perry Morrison (Dr))
Subject: Re: Light aircraft for CAS in Australia
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:38:02 GMT


From swkmorri@nuscc.nus.sg (Perry Morrison (Dr))

Regarding my original posting on the feasibility of using converted
light/GA/cropduster aircraft in a light strike role against possible
(northern, island based) insurgents in Australia's Northern Territory
(phew!! I did it).

A couple of people mailed and have since convinced me that there are
2 better solutions, particularly where air supremacy is assured
(as it would be since nothing in the region stacks up against
Australia's 70 odd F/A-18s).

1. Gunships a la "puff the magic dragon". Massive firepower, good loiter
time and able to stay out of the way of most small arms. Caribou,
C-130 and even C-47s could do the job.

2. Heavily armed, light and fast AFVs working in concert with aircraft
and recon units. These can deliver high volumes of fire for long
periods and maneuver to a tactical advantage.

I think I originally underestimated the importance of firepower in
pinning down small units on contact (so they don't evaporate into the
bush) and so that heavier forces could have time to get there and
deliver the fatal blow. Light aircraft just can't deliver that amount
of firepower for that long.

I also think I underestimated the vulnerability of light (and very
slow) aircraft to small arms, plus the amount of weight that would
need to be added to allow them to survive in the CAS environment.

cheers
perry morrison


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: barney@sol.usc.edu (Barney Lum)
Subject: MiG-29 Visits Hawthorne, CA
Organization: USC University Computing Services, Los Angeles
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:36:38 GMT


From barney@sol.usc.edu (Barney Lum)

Hawthorne had its annual Air Faire this past weekend (8/29-30). In addition
to its usual visitors of P-51's, B-25's, and other warbdirds was a Ukrainian 
MiG-29.  It was on static display for both days before departing (destination
unknown) Sunday afternoon.  And what a departure it was!

It back-taxied to runway 25, then turned around to face into the wind. 
Brakes set, full throttle, smoke momentarily pouring out of its two engines, 
the roar resonated through everything on the field.  I was standing near the 
ramp/taxiway border, less than 200 feet from the beast as it lept forwared 
and applied full afterburner.  The crackle was deafening... must've been 
REALLY so for the folks along the street standing along/behind the blast 
fence!  It sharply rotated ~2000' down and appeared to nearly scrape its 
tail while its exhaust blasted  the runway.  It climbed vertically... still 
with burners alight... to about 3000' (maybe less),  cut power and performed 
a Tailslide (TM) - falling backwards while vertical - before nosing 
over for a recovery.  

It flew a somewhat wide "pattern" at 1000' AGL.  Base-to-final one mile out, 
it descended until only 50' off the deck while again lighting the burners 
at ~300 knots!  Down the length of the runway, it pulled and made a climbing 
left turn to the southwest and .... well, I lost sight of him rather quickly 
after that(!).

Hawthorne's 5000' runway is parallel to LAX and only about three miles east 
and one south of it.  Throughout the day,  airline arrivals were constantly 
streaming in.  During his "show", they seem to have disappeared.  I'm kinda  
wondering what sort of arrangements were made.  Well, not really...I was 
just purely exhilerated by the MiG's appearance AND flight!  While its 
demonstration was very limited, it is... and those who have had the chance 
to see it will agree... truly awesome to see this particular piece of 
equipment take to the air!  If it stops by your town*, go see it! 

And yes, the pilot was a good flying neighbor in observing noise abatement 
procedure by waiting till reaching 500' or Hawthorne Blvd before turning :)

*I believe its on an encore tour of the US.  In its left main gear well were 
 numerous decals of companies that I assume are helping sponser its visit.
 An interesting item is a 2-foot high Strategic Air Command shield  wrapped 
 around the front of its nosewheel strut.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >|            
              >|      barney@usc.edu  Barney@USCVM
 -->  -->  --> |   =======    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---   ---    ---  
              >|      Permanent Student Pilot, On the Numbers   
              >|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: propeller planee's anti-torque problem
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:12:34 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ


From dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)

In article <BtC4Lz.5o8@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

>|This tendency is countered by the pilot by use of the rudder. Taildraggers
>|have a big problem because they experience P-factor when they first begin
>|the takeoff roll. At this point, the rudder is useless.

>.... My argument was that the yaw effect one sees before the air-
>plane starts to roll is due to propwash - the effects of a spiral-
>ling slipstream on the vertical surfaces of the aircraft. The reason
>I think P-factor isn't involved here is because the airplane isn't 
>moving at all, thus no relative wind!

This is partially correct. When the aircraft is stationary and there's no
wind, there's no relative wind and no P-factor effects. The problems with
tail draggers occur mainly in the 10 to 40 mph airspeed range. Below about
10 mph, P-factor is negligible. At about 40, the rudder becomes effective
enough to overcome it. In between, though, you can see a big swing. However,
the effects of a spiraling slipstream are relatively constant and the fixed
control surfaces (vertical and horizontal stabilizers) are canted to cancel
these effects out.

Personally, I've never noticed a yaw effect in any aircraft below about 10
mph, but the taildraggers I've flown were low-powered. The people I know
who fly ones with lots of power (like an Ag-cat), haven't mentioned any
yaw at low speeds either. The Ag-cat has a big locking tailwheel and the
pilot normally holds it down until close to rotation speed. For reference,
the Ag-cat has about half the takeoff power of a P-51.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | He who is not a revolutionary at 16 has no heart.
                    | He who is a revolutionary at 60 has no head.
                    |                          Lord Chesterfield
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: techsy005@spacm1.spac.spc.com (Fred Franceschi)
Subject: Re: Breaking in green submariners
Organization: Security Pacific Automation Co., LA, CA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 12:08:50 GMT


From techsy005@spacm1.spac.spc.com (Fred Franceschi)

In the artillery we used to send green soldiers out to get a
bucket of mils. A mil is an angle; 6400 mils equal a circle.
-- 

Fred Franceschi
techsy105@spacm1.spac.spc.com
    
My statements may not be my companys.
Brilliant, witty saying goes here.

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: keith@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Keith Taylor)
Subject: Re: USA Timberwolves Division
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:19:46 GMT


From keith@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Keith Taylor)

The "Timberwolf" division trained at Camp Adair, just north of here in
Corvallis, Oregon. There's a sign at the entrance to the Camp Adair 
site that talks about the divisions that trained there and where they 
served in WW II. The other divisions were nicknamed "Deadeye" and 
"Trailblazer." I don't remember much beyond that, the sign goes
by too fast.  :-)

Keith M. Taylor

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: <Miso.Alkalaj@ijs.yu>
Subject: Nukes in the Republics
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:20:06 GMT


From <Miso.Alkalaj@ijs.yu>

Rusty Whitman asks:

> Does anyone know which of the Republics of the former Soviet Union
> currently have nuclear weapons?
 ...

IDR 3/1992 ("Russia's military inheritance" by Tomas Ries, p. 223)
published the following table:

Distribution of bases housing strategic nuclear weapons:

             Silo ICBM Mobile ICBM LRBM    SSBN    Warheads
------------ --------- ----------- ------- ------- --------
Russia        13 bases    10 bases 5 bases 6 bases     9650
Ukraine        2 bases     -       2 bases -           1300
Kazhakstan     2 bases     -       1 base  -           1150
Byelorussia    -           2 bases -       -            100
------------ --------- ----------- ------- ------- --------
Warheads(*)       5420        1260     807    3672

(*) According to START counting rules

The same article lists units with theatre/tactical nuclear capabilities,
but there's no data on the number and type of warheads.

Miso Alkalaj <miso.alkalaj@ijs.si> or <miso.alkalaj@ijs.ac.mail.yu> 
"Jozef Stefan" Institute, Ljubljana, Slovenia

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Herschel H Mayo <hhm@ihlpe.att.com>
Subject: Re: The Rosenbergs
Organization: Chicago Home for the Morally Challenged
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 14:49:33 GMT


From Herschel H Mayo <hhm@ihlpe.att.com>

> 
>   Gorbachev has said that Stalin thanked the Rosenbergs personally in his
> private diary. They were guilty as sin, there is no doubt of that.
>   The mind reels at the consequences, past and future, of their treachery.
> If only there had been enough time to outlaw nukes and those countries
> that would make them! 
>   They let the cat out of the bag, and may have damned us all in the doing.
> If there was ever justice in execution, it was in theirs.
> 

I seem to remember a few years ago that the children of the Rosenbergs,
who changed their name to Mearpool, started a drive to clear their names.
This was gaining steam when the FBI, in a rare spurt of candor, declassified
evidence that was incontrovertable and proved that they were involved up to
their elbows. The evidence was so damning that the clear-the-Rosenbergs
movement dissappeared overnight.


                                              Larry
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Depleted Uranium -- Hydrogen Bombs
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:28:07 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


From moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com

In article <BtLCp0.5o6@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, black@akebono.math.ncsu.edu (Kelly Black) writes...
>This brings up a question that I have had for a while.  
>Once the jacket and core are compressed to critical
>levels how do you make sure that the fission process
>is initiated.  Surely they don't just squeeze the thing
>and hope that the good Lord smiles on the whole endevor! (sp?)
>What do they do to start the reaction (or did I already 
>ask that :-)

Early bombs had a neutron source, probably polonium and beryllium.  I think
later it was determined that this was not needed as there are always some
neutrons from the spontaneous fission of U-235 (a very small percentage decays
by fissioning all by itself rather than emitting an alpha)

-Mike
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu (Matthew DeLuca)
Subject: Re: Marines in Atlanta
Organization: The Dorsai Grey Captains
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:10:18 GMT


From ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu (Matthew DeLuca)


In article <BtpCJ4.LoK@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:

>>      ... or will they be a part of the security force for the 
>>      1996 Olympics.

>If memory serves, in the US there are major legal restrictions on using
>the military for police duties.  Much more probably they were just doing
>some mildly-unconventional training.  Amphibious landings are not the
>USMC's only mission.

Henry has it correct; the recent events have been a month-long scheduled 
training exercise.  Apparently the military likes to pick a major urban 
center every now and then and get some good practice in helicopter ops.

It's really something else, watching helicopter gunships go zipping down 
your street...

-- 
Matthew DeLuca                      "I'd hire the Dorsai, if I knew their 
Georgia Institute of Technology      P.O. box."
Office of Information Technology                - Zebediah Carter, 
Internet: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu              _The Number of the Beast_

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Steve_Grant@kcbbs.gen.nz (Steve Grant)
Subject: F-16 HUD & CRT symbology
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:30:57 GMT


From Steve_Grant@kcbbs.gen.nz (Steve Grant)

Can anyone please comment on those two? Specifically I have Falcon3, 
(Game) and I was wondering how accurate the symbology was? For say a 
AIM-120 it would have a large aiming recticle with a small diamond moving 
in a pattern across the HUD until it gets lock. in the lower LFT hand 
cnr there are the words ARM, also in the left hand cnr is something 
to do with fuel remaining, RHT hand cnr has radar alt, alt, waypoint 
number and range. Anway if anyone can describle the system or put some 
light on the subject I would appreciate it. Also when the Maverick 65B's 
are selected does the pilot get the image of the target in the HUD or 
in a CRT?

Thanks Steve



Newsgroups: sci.military
From: "A.J.S. Nusbacher" <aryk@utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: Sabots and Soboteurs
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 12:07:56 GMT


From "A.J.S. Nusbacher" <aryk@utcs.utoronto.ca>

In article <BtJntF.9Jy@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew) writes:

>... Personally I'm not sure a shoe
>would do much damage to machinery

The shoes I'm wearing here in my office might not do any damage to machinery,
and in French they're called _chaussures_.

A _sabot_ is one of those big wooden shoes worn by French peasants, and tied
in the popular imagination with the Netherlands.

It would take a robust piece of machinery indeed to cope with a large hardwood
shoe being thrust into a vital part.

Aryk Nusbacher


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: xabaea@levels.unisa.edu.au
Subject: FLIR naming competition (FOR REAL!!!)
Organization: University of South Australia
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:35:52 GMT


From xabaea@levels.unisa.edu.au

Hi there...


British Aerospace Australia has just produced a markedly superior FLIR (forward
looking Infra-Red) system for helicopters operating in a tropical environment.
You know, those bulbous things under the nose of choppers which targeted
the laser-guided bombs which obliterated Iraqi tanks and stuff.

The only trouble is, we can't think of a catchy product
name for it, suggested names are things like "night-scanner", "view finder"
and that sort of thing.

So if youd like a small piece of immortality, in the knowlegde that you contrib-
uted to naming this product, and can think of a catchy name that implies:

1) the fact that it operates on the principle of infra-red (heat) radiation
   and is usually used at night
2) its a passive device, so the name should suggest stealth
3) Designed to work best in a tropical atmosphere.
4) Is of high performance

You can use REPLY or preferably, mail to me at

grn@baea.com.au

"Competition" closes on September 8. I'll let you know is your name is
successful.


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu (Matthew DeLuca)
Subject: Re: is the A-10 going bye-bye?
Organization: The Dorsai Grey Captains
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:36:28 GMT


From ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu (Matthew DeLuca)


In article <BtusnK.JKv@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> nak@cbnews.att.com (Neil A Kirby) writes:

>I agree.  But - and there are always such flies in the ointment - Fairchild
>isn't building A10's anymore.  To be effective you have to have sufficient
>numbers of aircraft.  It's not like the case with the B52 that there were
>zillions of them made, either.  

Just for reference, production of the A-10 was terminated in 1982, with a 
total buy of 707 aircraft; quite a sizeable number, actually.  Does anyone
have figures on the A-10 attrition rate?

-- 
Matthew DeLuca                      "I'd hire the Dorsai, if I knew their 
Georgia Institute of Technology      P.O. box."
Office of Information Technology                - Zebediah Carter, 
Internet: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu              _The Number of the Beast_

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: "A.J.S. Nusbacher" <aryk@utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: How to spike a gun?
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 12:04:19 GMT


From "A.J.S. Nusbacher" <aryk@utcs.utoronto.ca>

The National War Museum in Ottawa has a German gun circa WWII which was des-
troyed by its crew by reversing a shell in the muzzle and firing a shell
into it.  The result is a beautifully florated barrel which looks like
something out of a Road Runner cartoon.

Aryk Nusbacher

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: sjameson@fergie.dnet.ge.com (Stephen M Jameson)
Subject: Re: Chinese F-9 fighter?
Organization: General Electric Advanced Technology Labs
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:26:56 GMT


From sjameson@fergie.dnet.ge.com (Stephen M Jameson)

In article <BtLCHJ.5Gp@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> akula@ecst.csuchico.edu (Guo Han-Zhang) writes:

>There's an article in Defence Technology Monthly ( a magzine published in
>Taiwan) talking about Jian-9 fighter on its Feb. '92 issue. From the picture
>of the J-9 model, it looks like a shorten Mig-23 with fixed delta wing and
>canard on the intake. 4 hardpoints under the delta wing. The air-to-air
>missile hanging under two of the pylons looks like AIM-120. According to
>the article, Chinese tried to copy the swing-wing design of MiG-23 but
>failed, so they use fixed wing instead of VG wing. They also introduced
>fly-by-wire in this aircraft. The power plant is the same one used on 
J-8, with 4350 kg of trust.
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

One regularly sees pounds (mistakenly, to be picky) used as a unit of mass,
when it is actually a unit of force, but this is the first time I have seen kg
(a unit of mass) used as a unit of force.  I assume in this context that it
means 4350*2.2 lbs of thrust.  Is this a standard usage in the part of the
world that speaks metric?

--
Steve Jameson                           General Electric Aerospace 
sjameson@atl.ge.com                     Advanced Technology Laboratories
                                        Moorestown, New Jersey              
****************************************************************************
**  . . . but I do not love the sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow    **
**  for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory.  I love only that   **
**  which they defend . . .                                               **
**    -- Faramir, "The Two Towers"                                        **
****************************************************************************

Newsgroups: sci.military