HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kenney@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Kenney)
Subject: Re: Hurricane Andrew's effect on building
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:15:13 GMT

In article <2485@tymix.Tymnet.COM> rklute@enchanter.tymnet.com (Robert Klute) writes:
>In article <1992Sep12.054914.16903@u.washington.edu> kenney@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Kenney) writes:
>>
>>I have no trouble with my taxes paying for the cleanup from a storm
>>such as that because you're talking about a 100 year storm.  I
>>certainly would'nt let an event with that kind of probability disuade
>>me from living somewhere.
>>
>As I remember, Camille hit 200 mph, and that was what? ~30 years ago.
>So, I don't think we can cavalier and call class 5+ storms 100 year
>events, anymore.
>
>-----
>
>
>They came for the 4th amendment, I said nothing for I wasn't a drug dealer. 
>Then they came for the 2nd amendment, but I said nothing, I wasn't a gun owner.
>Then they came for the 6th amendment, but I kept quiet, I knew I wasn't guilty.
>Finally they came for the 1st amendment, and it was too late to say anything.

Camille didn't hit South Florida.  The current wisdom concerning hurricanes
hitting S FL is that they seem to come in 25-30 yr cycles but I believe a
5+ is still a 100 yr event.

I wonder if the long time between hurricanes caused the building codes to get
a bit lax.  We lived down there until I was 12 and when my folks had a house
built in S Dade County (in 1969), everybody built their houses out of
concrete block  -  there seem to be a lot more wood frame houses down there
now.

----
Mike Kenney
UW Applied Physics Lab
mikek@apl.washington.edu

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: heflin@rtsg.mot.com (Suzanne Stratton Heflin)
Subject: Re: What should I know about plywood siding?
Keywords: plywood siding, Texture 1 11.
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:08:42 GMT

lorraine@caliban.crd.ge.com (Peter Lorraine) writes:

>My wife and I are considering making a bid on a house and have a few questions about siding.  The
>fact sheet for the house lists the siding as "Wood".  I asked the realtor to find out a little
>more and she reported back that the owner thinks it is something called "Texture 11".  I had never
>heard of this before and neither had the realtor.

>I found in one of those Bob Villa type guide to building materials books a reference to a plywood
>siding called Texture 1 11 (1-11?).  The illustration certainly resembles the siding on the house.

I recently read a book called "The Apple Corps Guide to the Well-Built
House" by Jim Locke and I remember him mentioning something about it.  I
don't know exactly what he said, but I'm almost sure that it was not
favorable.
From: champlin@pa.dec.com (Virgil Champlin)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Asea Washer?
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:24:02 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: DEC Network Systems Laboratory

I visited Whole Earth Access in San Jose last night and they had 2 of
the 3 ASEA models.  The middle and top of the line are $829 and $929
respectively.  Both appear to be the same basic washer with the
top-of-the-line having electronic controls, two more cycle choices and a
small items basket.  Really nice and very quiet.  -virgil
--
    Virgil Champlin			champlin@pa.dec.com
					Palo Alto, CA
	I like satire.  I'm just not very good at it.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Anything before siding??
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 15:06:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.090715.3558@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> un026217@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:

>Is there anything else I should do before I start siding?
>(I will replace windows first; I also want to rebuild 
>kitchen and bathroom). Do exhaust fans for kitchen and
>bathroom go outside the house? Should I put in those fans
>and then start siding? 

These fans come in a variety of designs, but all the kitchen fans I've
seen are designed to be installed before the sheet rock goes on the inside
and after the siding is up on the outside. They generally consist of a
tubular fan housing which has an attached flange and door and a detachable
inside cover. A hole is cut in the siding and sheathing, the tube slid
in, and the flange caulked. Usually nails or screws are run through the
housing into the house framing. They may be run through the flange into
the siding.

Bathroom fans are generally designed for installation in the bathroom,
with an exhaust very much like (but not identical) that used for a
clothes dryer. In some applications, the design requires that the fan is
installed before the sheet rock goes up. Again, normally it's expected
that the siding is already up.

In all the designs I've seen, there's little problem with installing
such a fan after the sheet rock is in place. For example, with a typical
kitchen fan, if sheet rock has already been installed, a hole must be
carefully cut in the rock before the fan is put in. This hole must be
the same size as the housing and exactly line up with the hole in the
outside wall. Sometimes, however, a unit can't be put when the rock is
already up. This is particularly true of the larger Nautilus units in
multistory houses.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | The human race likes to give itself airs.
George Patterson -  | One good volcano can produce more greenhouse gases
                    | in a year than the human race has in its entire
                    | history.                 - Ray Bradbury
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Block driveways?
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:14:06 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL


Does anyone have any experiences to share regarding installation or maintenance
of paving block driveways?  We're considering blocks as one alternative
to asphalt or concrete for a new driveway installation.

Specifics:
How does cost compare?

How do they hold up over time?

Are winter freeze/thaw cycles going to be a major problem?  (Chicago area)

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: root@fincomp.raidernet.com (Neal McClain)
Subject: Re: Two electrical questions.
Organization: Financial Computers Corp., Murfreesboro, TN
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 14:08:41 GMT

In <1992Sep4.141851.12383@primerd.prime.com> mguyott@eriador.prime.com (M. Guyott) writes:


>            When I turn the fan (switch) off there is a brief interuption
>            in the radio.  It only happens when I turn the switch off.  It
>            is almost as if the power is momentarily (it is very brief but
>            noticable - almost like a "click" in the radio) turned off to
>            the radio.  Does anyone have any idea why this is happening?

Possibly it is RFI (radio frequency interference) caused by the colapse
of the magnetic field in the fan motor when it is turned off.  If this
is the case then the interference is coming "thru the air" and not
"down the power cord".  Try running an extension cord from some distance
away to the radio and see if the noise persists.  Then move the radio 
around and see if the noise changes with distance from the fan.

The noise could also be caused by a voltage spike coming down the power
line (cause by the colapse of the fans magnetic field).  The radio power
supply may be good enough to "see" the spike and interupt power for a 
brief moment to protect the circuits, or the circuits may just be 
overloaded enough to cause the click.

Anyway, try the above test.  If it's RFI then it's no big deal unless
it's a very loud click which might damage the speaker.  If it's an
electrical spike then I would put the radio elsewhere before the spikes
beat the circuits to death.


Neal McClain               | Beam me up Scottie, there's no intelligent 
Murfreesboro, Tn           | life down here!   
root@fincomp.raidernet.com | uunet!mjbtn!fincomp!root
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: GFCI (circuit breakers)
Date: 12 Sep 92 05:42:46 GMT
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Sep10.173010.4771@ulowell.ulowell.edu> wex@cs.ulowell.edu writes:
>In article <3797@ecicrl.ocunix.on.ca>, clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:
>|> .... You're going to see prices
>|> of $80+ CDN for most GFCI breakers in this country.  At $10-$20, a single
>|> GFCI outlet will often do the job just as well.  Ie: if the first device
>|> that you want to ground-fault protect on the circuit is a receptacle,
>|> use a GFCI outlet.

>If the first thing on the circuit you want to protect is not an
>outlet, you can usually install one (and outlet, that is).

While true, inspectors will often get a little antsy when the circuit
is supposed to be dedicated.  Ie: jacuzzi tubs need GFCI protection, and
have to be on a dedicated circuit.  We got away with installing
a GFCI outlet in a location unsuitable for normal use, but I don't know
whether this was because it was legal, the inspector didn't see it, or
decided to go easy on us.  [Everything else was far in excess of code.]

>N.B. around here, GFI outlets can usually be had for $8/9.  I will check
>next time I think of it to see if they are CSA rated (as well as UL).
>The last 20 A. GFI Breaker I bought was $45. US.

GFCI outlets first started really appearing here about 5-7 years ago.
Until quite recently, they were going for $25-30CDN.  Now they're
reasonably easy to find for as low as about $13CDN - *good* units from
electrical supply outlets.  A $8-9US cost would turn into about $14-17
by the time you factor in exchange and GST.

The one price that really scared me once was a dual 15A GFCI breaker.
Over $200!

How much does a 4-way decora (large rectangular plate opening) switch
go for down there?
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
From: 21329KAD@MSU (Kim Dyer)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Hurricane Andrew's effect on building
Date: 12 Sep 92 03:11:30 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University


>Continually
>rebuilding inadequate structures is too wasteful to get my
>hard-earned money, thanks.
>Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
>4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
>We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
>Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com

Lessee.  I was in Seattle when that big quake hit southern California
in June.  All the news reports talked about how scientists are just
WAITING for a quake that will make that one look like a semi passing
by ... with an epicenter in the area of Puget Sound.  Let's hope Mr.
Putnam remembers that when it hits.  So sorry ... predictable you know.

Seems to be a pretty intense hurricane season in the Pacific too.
(Didn't they used to call those Typhoons?)  I remember hurricanes
making it into New England with most of their power left.  Maybe one
will visit Vashon Island, WA.

There is not a place on the PLANET that isn't in danger from Mother
Nature in some way.  Give it the big break.
From: slm@cs.arizona.edu (Sandy Miller)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: safe ant deterrent
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:47:55 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona, CS Dept, Tucson

We had a very nice brick patio built in front of our house.  Now, we find
that ants are continuously trying to build their ant hills between the
bricks.  I would like to discourage them because (1) it is unattractive
having little piles of sand all over the patio, and (2) I am concerned
that as they bring all that sand up on top of the bricks, the bricks will
become unsupported and eventually uneven.

I don't mind the ants, if they just would build their hills someplace other
than on the patio (like in the gravel driveway or the garden).

In the past, I sprinkled ant powder on each hill when it first appeared
and swept the sand back into the cracks between the bricks.  But we are
concerned because out cat might walk through the ant powder, and then lick
her paws.  Now that I've stopped using the powder, the hills just keep
getting bigger, no matter how often I sweep the sand back.

I wonder if there is something that would discourage the ants, but not
pose a threat to our kitty.  For example, borax is supposed to work for
fleas and roaches; will it work on ants?

Thanks for any help,
-sandy
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: burwell@parc.xerox.com (Becky Burwell)
Subject: Asea Washer?
Reply-To: burwell@parc.xerox.com (Becky Burwell)
Organization: Xerox PARC
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 04:14:14 GMT

My General Electric washer needs to be replaced.  A
repairman highly recommended Maytag because they are
so dependable and easy to fix. That's what he has in his
house.

As noise is a big consideration, I am considering buying
an Asea washer.  They are quite quiet.  The repairman said 
they were probably good but that I might have trouble locating
people who knew how to fix them. They are also quite a bit more
expensive.

Anyone with an Asea washer out there?


Becky Burwell
Xerox PARC
burwell@parc.xerox.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: heflin@rtsg.mot.com (Suzanne Stratton Heflin)
Subject: Re: Hurricane Andrew's effect on building materials
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:56:30 GMT

greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) writes:
>>>are now becomming quite scarce. According to our builder (he built our
>>>house last year and is about to start building a barn for us) the
>>>price of plywood doubled last week.
>>
>>Ah, yes, don't you just love our free enterprise system!  Whenever someone's
>>down, there's always someone willing to step in, lend a hand,
>>and give them another kick.  Sounds like time to save all the newspaper
>>ads you can, and hold the dealers to their advertised prices.
> 
>This strikes me as odd. In the past, it has been usual in times of national 
>crisis, to take legal steps against price-gouging and profiteering.
> 
>Where is the federal government in all of this?
> 
In the Chicago area, I haven't heard much about price gouging, but I have
heard that they are rationing plywood.  THIS seems like a reasonable 
response to the situation.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: How to smooth out spackle marks over finishing nails
Organization: OSF Research Institute
	<1992Sep8.230946.2660@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: 9 Sep 92 10:21:48

In article <1992Sep8.215150.19046@adobe.com> dauphin@adobe.com
(Kimberly Dauphin) writes:

   I spackled over the finishing nails that I used to put on the
   doorway mouldings and the decorative moldings, and then
   sanded them till they felt smooth with no discernable edges.
   
   After I slapped on the first coat of paint, however, the spackle
   marks still show - noticeably!  What do I need to do to make
   these marks disappear?  Or is it too late :-( since I've
   already put on one (albeit light) coat of paint?

This is not surprising.  First of all, you should prime or undercoat
bare wood before painting it.  A product I like is Pratt & Lambert
Latex Enamel Underbody.  This primer doesn't raise grain, and seals
well.  Re-spackle any depressions that remain (sometimes you can see
depressions better after priming, sometimes priming seems to cause
depressions or lumps).  When the spackle is dry, sand with a block
(don't use sandpaper on your fingertips, because you may end up
getting uneven spots).  Now put on two coats of finish paint, sanding
in between.

You've already put on one coat.  Not to panic.  You can spackle over
that coat if it is uneven, or just touch up with paint if it is
soaking in unevenly.  Then sand and put on a second coat.  For best
results, put on a third coat after that.

Patter's suggests varnish as a primer, but latex underbody is easier
to work with and probably gives a better result.  For alkyd paint, you
can use alkyd underbody.

	-s
From: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: House square footage- how to measure?
Date: 9 Sep 92 12:18:09 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

What's the traditional way of measuring a house's living area?
Is it the sum of the area of each individual room, not counting any
basement?  Or is it the area calculated using the outside perimeter of
the house?

Real estate agents seem to be getting away from this method of using
square footage as a metric of comparing houses.  If they clearly explained
their method of calculating the living area, why wouldn't they want to
use it?

	Dave
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne)
Subject: Re: FHA loans
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:54:28 GMT

In article <BuBBK5.3E1@apollo.hp.com> daniels_d@apollo.HP.COM (Dave Daniels) writes:

> Has anyone here, heard of a new policy when financing
>via FHA. They now reguire that you pay $600 to get the
>property you want to purchase, treated for termites. I 
>have no problem with that, except for we are having a house
>built, what good would that do.  My question is when you
>have you house treated how long does it last ?
>Has anyone else run into this situation? Is there any way
>around it ?

Any house in a climate where insects swarm in the summer should be protected
against termites.  Termites swarm, they dig tunnels and they eat wood.  If 
they're eating the wood that holds up your house, you have a serious problem.

A standard sales clause in real estate contracts usually calls for a termite
inspection--and treatment if any infestation is found--and repair if any
damage is found.  A lender would want new or existing construction tested and
protected.  During construction there would probably be a metal shield where
foundation meets wood.  It would also make sense to treat the ground during
construction.

Standard ground treatment should last for 10 years, and most companies (such as
Orkin) would write a ten year guarantee at very little additional cost.

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: nrd@redwood22 (Neal Dalton)
Subject: Re: Painting radiators?
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: 7 Sep 92 14:03:18 CDT

Dan Dreiszus (dand@ssd.intel.com) wrote:
: I'll summarize some information from the October '88 issue of
: Old-House Journal.
: 
: Radiators heat by convection and radiation. Radiator paint
: has no effect on convection, but can affect radiation in
: the following manner:
: 
: o Radiation is only affected by the last coat of paint on the
:   radiator (this suggests that paint build-up is an insignificant
:   insulator).

This doesn't make sense.  The insulative value of the paint should make
a difference.  Metal conducts heat better than plastic or glass, so a
metallic paint should also conduct heat better than latex or other
non-metallic paints.

If this where true, it would matter what you built you house from.

: o Non-metallic paints transmit more heat than a bare surface. Similarly:
:    - Dark colors transmit slightly more heat than light colors.
:    - Flat finishes transmit slightly more heat that glossy finishes.
: 
: o Metal bronze paints (the historically accurate finish) and
:   galvanizing reduce heat transmission from 7.4 to 9.2 percent.
:   Other metallic paints should fall somewhere in this range also.
: 
: If you choose a historic treatment like bronzing, the slight decrease
: in output probably won't matter, since most old radiant systems
: were over-spec'd and designed for uninsulated homes, whereas now most
: homes at least have some attic insulation.
: 
: I've started stripping the paint off of mine and re-bronzing them.
: They do look great this way, particularly in a century-old home.
: 
: 
: --Dan
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
:  
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: jhp@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Jim H. Puga)
Subject: Some drywall questions.
Reply-To: jhp@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Jim H. Puga)
Organization: Sacramento Public Access Unix, Sacramento, Ca.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 04:15:00 GMT

As the subject line states, I have some questions about
hanging and using drywall.  

1) Does is really matter if I hang the drywall horizontally
   or vertically?  What are the advantages/disadvantages?

2) Should greenboard(or wonderboard, etc) be used only where
   I run the chances of getting leaks or should the whole
   bathroom be done with that particular type of board?
   I guess this also goes for the kitchen.


That's it for now.  I'm sure I'll remember something else as
soon as I log off.

Anyway, Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
- jhp@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US    What else can I say?             -
-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: wex@cs.ulowell.edu (Paul M. Wexelblat)
Subject: Re: House square footage- how to measure?
Originator: wex@bigmax.ulowell.edu
Reply-To: wex@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: Univ. of Lowell CS Dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:43:09 GMT


In article <13273@texsun.Central.Sun.COM>, dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
|> From: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
|> Subject: House square footage- how to measure?
|> Date: 9 Sep 92 12:18:09 GMT
|> 
|> What's the traditional way of measuring a house's living area?
|> Is it the sum of the area of each individual room, not counting any
|> basement?  Or is it the area calculated using the outside perimeter of
|> the house?

I can speak only from the point of view of tax  assessment in Mass, but...
Living area is computed by measuring the perimeter (footprint) of the house
and multiplying by the number of storys (adjusting for overhang/setback,
partial nth floor, etc.  Basement area is not considered living space
(for assessment purposes, but finished/unfinished will have an
impact) For example, a house with a basement converted to
two bedrooms that has three upstairs, will be considered
a 3 bedroom house with a finished basement.

This technique allows ballpark comparisons; I suspect that
the RE agents use something else, but...


|> 
|> Real estate agents seem to be getting away from this method of using
|> square footage as a metric of comparing houses.  If they clearly explained
|> their method of calculating the living area, why wouldn't they want to
|> use it?

They do that (Cynic hat on) so they can try to sell you "their" house
that is smaller.

Hat off -- Actually, lay-out will affect the usefulness of "living space"
so de-emphasizing sqft as a primary measure is not (too) unreasonable,
but (hat on again), I'll bet the folks with the bigger houses DO 
quote size.
-- 
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.

	...Wex