HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:10:18 PST
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      "Non-antagonistic contradictions"

Mr Kubaska writes:

>3, I personaly need government to regulate prices.
>
> Marian Kubaska
> Banska Bystrica
> Czech and Slovak Federal Republic

Mr Kubaska further writes:

>  >     You don't need the government you need a market economy.  When
>  >    any product including housing is priced so high no one can buy it
>  >    the price comes down in a market economy.  When the government
>  >    regulates the price it stays high while quality comes down.
>  >
>  >  Jim Brown
>
>        The only trouble is that here is no market economy
>        but here already are "market" prices.
>
>        I certainly have no doubt that it works in USA,Canada,BRD,...
>
> Marian Kubaska
> Banska Bystrica
> Czech and Slovak Federal Republic

Mr Kubaska, I have a bit of trouble understanding how will the
government control of prices help CS (or S) on the road to market
economy? I thought market economy was the ABSENCE of government control
over economy.

You may also be interested in a tidbit of local trivia. Berkeley, CA
(yes, the one with the famous university) is jokingly referred to
as "People's Republic of Berkeley," because of its leftist local
government. To give students "affordable housing," they implemented
"rent control," which indeed is a (local) government control over
(a segment of) economy. As a result, the student housing is:

   1 cheaper than in surrounding areas
   2 impossible to find--waiting period is several years and the
     "finder's fees" are exorbitant
   3 substandard (unsafe, unsanitary, unmaintained, etc.) as the
     owners do not make the profit needed for reinvestment

But at least they call it (and proudly so) "socialism," instead of
masquerading it for a "Berekely specific implementation of free
market principles."

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Sat, 19 Dec 1992 18:42:09 PST
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Is the Grass Greener over there?

Marian Kubaska writes:

> As you probably know main slovak political forces refused the
> "lustration" law (that restricts the access to some posts in the
> state service to the persons registred in s~tb files as "agents" or
> something like that). They prefer another solution. Everybody has to
> be judged for his actual crimes. That means that if somebody was
> agent but nobody prove that he did anything illegal he will be no
> restricted in his life.

Please, do not confuse and mix the two, or treat them as if they
were in the same category. The suspicion of committing a crime, i.e.
breaking a law, is dealt with by the judicial system, and the person,
if convicted, gets sentence that acts (among other things, but mostly
as) the punishment. The purpose of the lustration law is not to
punish anyone--it is to prevent the whole class of people from access
to political power for 5 years (I think). The class consists of those
who worked with the communist secret police, and the high ranking
communist party officials. The assumption is that such people showed
certain qualities (or lack thereof) that allowing these people into
positions of political power would present an element of danger to
the newly formed democracy.

Whether this approach is justifiable, and whether it would work, is
arguable. But your words, "they prefer another solution," are misleading
as the two things deal with completely different categories of issues.

> If there are no proofs about Mr. Lorenz or anyone else abuse of power
> he will be set free. If there are such proofs then he will be judged
> in accord with normal (not revolutional) law. And the institution to
> decide about the punishment will be the court of justice and not the
> parliament commision.

I was not aware of any plans for a parliament commission to decide
on the punishment for Mr Lorenz. Would you tell us the details?

> The question about whether SR is more democratic than CR is
> irrelevant. Every nation conforms the form of state power to its
> naturel. If Czechs decides that the 1/2 majority is sufficient for
> adoption of constitutional law or that left-wing politicians will take
> no high posts in czech parliament, it is their business.
> So that making the adoption of the lustration law to be the measure of
> the democracy is also misleading. I'm convinced that the slovak way to
> deal with the recent sad history is better than those of czechs. But
> anyone else may think just oposite.
>
> Mr. Weiss holds the position in slovak parliament because his party
> was the second in recent ellections, not because of his ideology.

Completely agreed. I only quoted Lorenz to show which way he's brown-
nosing, not to imply that anything he said is of any value.

> At last, but not at least: Mistakes will be pardoned, but "mistakes"
> ( crimes ) will certainly be not. Here in Slovakia.

I envy you.

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:02:47 CST
From:         Paul Mego <PMEGO3@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Re:Press control

Concerning the issue of "press control," I think that it is important to
realize that Slovakia is going through what may be considered essentially
a "nation-building" phase...as a new independent state. Sometimes it is
important to be aware of forces that can easily damage or even threaten
internal cohesion that a state such as the U.S.--a democracy for a long
 time now--is much more likely to be able to "weather." We in the older
 industrial democracies see things like language laws as evidence for
 intoleration or dangerous "nationalism" but for a new country that may
be struggling for legitimacy by both the foreign community and internal
 elements, the perceived need for language laws or press regulation may be
 strong. It is important to understand, however, that control can easily
cross into "tyranny" without some checks and balances. Nationalism, a
 potentially positive force for growth can easily become negative and
 authoritarian. New nations must be especially careful to be able to know
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:46:33 EST
From:         HAMMERL@UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Subject:      RE: Excellent

George Frajkor writes:

***************
  I have learned that one of the regular and most learned contributors
to our mailing lists here, Jan  Szelepsenyi of Bratislava, has been
appointed the ambassador of the Slovak Republic to Turkey.
***************

        May I be among the first on the list to offer my
sincere congratulations and best wishes to Jan.

Louise Hammer
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:29:49 PST
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      TU

I would like to thank Jiri Zlatuska of Masaryk University, Brno,
Czechoslovakia, for the extremely illuminating write-up on
the Trnava university case.

He clearly identified the root of the problem for what
it is, i.e. the government intervention into an area that
they should stay out of in a democratic state.

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:32:22 -0500
From:         NABELEK@UTKVX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Lorenz and the others

GEorge Frajkor writes:

>       Anyone who thinks the Czech Republic is behaving democratically
>in enforcing the anti-communist laws is urged to read the November
>issue of New Yorker magazine, where there is the second of two
>articles about the well-known Czech journalist Jan Kavan.  They cite
>pretty good sources.
>    the gist of it is that his life and career have been ruined by the
>accusations against him when , it would appear, his credentials as a
>dissident and democrat are impeccable.
>    It is interesting also that the wife of Josef Skvorecky, the
>writer and owner of a Canadian anti-Communist publishing house called
>'68 press' (he published Havel's stuff when Havel was proscribed), has
>also been "exposed" by the published list as an StB collaborating
>agent.

While I do not knows all the details, I would take an objection of putting
Solivar-Skvorecka in the same bag as Jan Kavan.  While Skvorecka had a great
reputation among the Canadian Czechoslovak emigrees during the communist rule,
Jan Kavan's reputation among Czechoslovak emgrees in London was very bad.

Do you take New Yorker as a bible?

Igor Nabelek
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:26:22 EST
From:         Stan Brunn <BRUNN@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: C-S Crown exchange rates
              15 Dec 1992 08:49:45 PST from <pannon@BCSFSE.CA.BOEING.COM>

Good questions about salaries in Bratislava.  Let's also find out from our netw
ork friends in Slovakia if there are differences in the salaries between Bratis
lava and other cities OR does a high school teacher or university prof. get the
 same income, regardless of location.  It would also be worth learning if new g
graduates from the universities that are teachers are finding jobs.  Thanks. St
an Brunn
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:51:24 EST
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Exchange rates

Just a footnote: the exchange rates for the "koruna" have been quite stable for
 the past 2 years. As a matter of fact, the koruna has gained a bit against the
 US dollar since 1990. Unfortunately, it is also true that the salaries in the
CSFR are very low if translated to dollars by the prevailing rate. However, one
 probably should consider other factors in the estimate of living standards,
e.g. housing which is still less expensive than in the West. (1/3 of the CSFR
population lives in "panelaky"=pre-fab apartment houses, according to the last
 census. I think that all this housing is still subsidized - right?).

   Best wishes for the Hollidays and the New Year, H.K.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
From: danubius@halcyon.com (Joseph R. Pannon)
Subject: Re: Exchange rates
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:12:13 GMT

In article <01GSD4QJPG0O91XAGN@macalstr.edu> PMUZILA@MACALSTR.BITNET writes:

>        Joe, how is it in Hungary ? (briefly !)

Actually, the situation you described shows a remarkable similarity to
the Hungarian situation, with the exception that the Crown's value is
about three times that of the Forint whose exchange rate to the US $ has
been hovering around 82 for a long time.  There is no appreciable
difference between the official and black market rates, effectively
killing the black market for it.  What minor difference there might
be, it's not worth the risk.

It seems to me that both the Hungarian and the C-S finance chiefs follow
the same, conservative (Austrian?) monetary policies.
When you think about it, it's quite remarkable to be able to maintain
such stable exchange rates after the collapse of the old market system 
and with tremendous domestic inflation!  In fact, I remember that a few
years back, I was able to get 100 Ft for a US $ (unofficially), but not
today, despite of the huge inflation that occured there since that time.
Most people there only complain about the ever increasing prices of
goods they purchase even though their rising incomes often compensate 
for it.  What they don't realize that the purchasing power of those
rising incomes IN THE WEST have increased tremendously, even if not so
at home.  

I think that the strength of their currency may yet lay the foundation
for a much quicker future recovery than is the case with those former 
Soviet Bloc countries where the central banks could not achieve that.
I, too, wonder how Slovakia will do in that department once she
establishes her own currency and central bank.  I have a feeling that
the Czechs are in better position to maintain that, due to their higher
industrial base and share of foreign capital.

Thanks to everybody for responding to my question.

Regards,
Joe Pannon
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:30:05 PST
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Analogy

 Paul Mego writes:

>                                          I was wondering if Dubcek may have
> been more successful '67-'68 if he had been able to keep a little more
> influence over the newly freed and therefore really enthusiastic press who
> wanted to take full advantage of their new power. Perhaps some scrutiny...
> in some situations...is beneficial.

He might have been (in that the invasion might have taken place in 1969
instead of 1968), but that is irrelevant. The speculation about the
degree of control of press in a totalitarian and dictatorial system
safeguarded and enforced by a foreign superpower is not an example of
how controlling press could be beneficial for a democratic society.

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Sat, 19 Dec 1992 18:44:09 PST
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Press Councils & the US

>    Americans seem to have real trouble with the concept of a Press
> Council, which is an institution quite common in Canada and Britain
> and which is not anywhere connected with government, but is set up by
> the industry itself to police itself.  These councils can be very
> useful. For one thing, they reduce libel actions, which has the
> laudable result of increasing unemployment among lawyers, and for
> another they ensure that journalists are judged by their peers and
> according to acceptable journalistic standards.  It surprises me they
> don't exist in the US.

It does not surprise me. The first amendment seems to be the most
emotional issue for most Americans, and anything that remotely sounds
like control doesn't have a chance here. The one exception that comes
to mind are the religious and moralist extremists, who are very
persistent in trying to put limits to anything that is offensive to
their instincts, such as evolution theory, pornography (including
Mark Twain, James Joyce, etc.). Sometimes they even succeed but,
luckily, it is rare, it is localized to rather remote areas of the
US, and it is reversible and usually reversed.

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
From: chorak@BMF.USC.EDU (Constance Horak)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Subject: Re: "Non-antagonistic contradictions"
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:14:42 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

It is not Berkeley but the City of Santa Monica known as the People's
Republic of Santa Monica.  CBS's program "Sixty Minutes" even featured it as
that a couple of years ago.
Connie Horak, University of Southern California
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:02:10 -0500
Reply-To:     James Brown <aa473@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
From:         James Brown <aa473@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Re:Press control

>
>Concerning the issue of "press control," I think that it is important to
>realize that Slovakia is going through what may be considered essentially
>a "nation-building" phase...as a new independent state. Sometimes it is
>important to be aware of forces that can easily damage or even threaten
>internal cohesion that a state such as the U.S.--a democracy for a long
> time now--is much more likely to be able to "weather."


 The "press" in the early history of the US was truly "free".  It was
normal for an editor who favored one political party to refer to the
leadership of the other side as apes dogs etc and to make up the most
unreasonable tales about them.

The bottom line is no one, including political, social, party leaders
should do anything they don't want to read about in the paper. And
just maybe they might not if the press is free to find out about it
and publish it (in the worsed light possible).

Jim Brown

>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:02:34 -0500
Reply-To:     James Brown <aa473@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
From:         James Brown <aa473@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject:      Re:Press control

  Usual childish Flames that make me delete without reading so many
  messages on this list deleted ... and some other stuff


>3, I personaly need government to regulate prices. The average salary
>   is 5000 KCS-tax per month. The normal price of normal apartment is
>   300 000-800 000 KCS. The house you wouldn't build for less than
>   2 000 000 KCS. Take your calculator and tell me how long is one
>   average citizen supposed to gather the money for this. Don't forget
>   that average citizen has to buy something to eat, something to
>   wear on,pay the rent,.... so that 5000KCS=500KCS at last.


     You don't need the government you need a market economy.  When
    any product including housing is priced so high no one can buy it
    the price comes down in a market economy.  When the government
    regulates the price it stays high while quality comes down.

  Jim Brown
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Sun, 20 Dec 1992 23:13:07 EST
From:         hetlil@RPI.EDU
Subject:      bit.listserv.sloval-l

List-L Leo Hetling

Please add me to the above list
From: Lubosh <ljh655@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Subject: Economy control (was:Press control)
Date: 13 Dec 1992 22:00:54 GMT
Organization: ANU
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.49.21
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-XXDate: Mon, 14 Dec 92 17:01:20 GMT

In article <9212112002.AA05453@slc4.INS.CWRU.Edu> James Brown,
aa473@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU writes:
>     You don't need the government you need a market economy.  When
>    any product including housing is priced so high no one can buy it
>    the price comes down in a market economy.  When the government
>    regulates the price it stays high while quality comes down.
>
>  Jim Brown
Dear Jim,
don't forget one of the main arguments for division of the country came
from different opinions on the market economy. As you might observe the
failure of Republicans may indicate the turn from monetarism, whilst Mr
Klaus is big on monetarism... Maciar is more left oriented, and he wants
to preserve at least a part of previous control over the economy. The
free market is yet not fully established in Czecho-Slovakia, and it will
take some time. Maybe the government should regulate it during this
period more than it is usual in Western democracies. Only time will tell
what was good, but many times people look more for short term results.
The introduction of free market principles early in 1990, and the flow of
foreign investment caused an extreme rise in real estate prices,
especially in Prague, Bratislava, and attractive locations (correct me if
I'm wrong but I think in early 1992 real estate prices were higher in
Karlsbad than in the nearby regions of Germany). People are not used to
cope with it, they have to get adjusted to the conditions. And since the
prices went through the roof, it will take some time, for real estate
maybe a few years to come down. In the mean time the average salaries can
not go up so fast, otherwise who could stop the inflation - this is how
the free market works in Latin America ! Let's rather concentrate on
being competitive, and work on equivalence - if the Western countries
want to be equivalent... I'll give you an example: I see a lot of Bohemia
glass sold here. It's not cheap, many times prices are higher than those
of other brands. Why is it then that the people manufacturing it are apid
less? Where do the money go? I reckon most of the profit is the profit of
those who are selling it here. So it's a question for the OECD countries
- do we really want the other countries to come to our level, or do we
need the others to be poorer in order to stay on the top? It's not all
that much about countries like Czecho-Slovakia, but mainly about third
world countries in Africa, Asia, and Latin America. The developed
countries use to give aid to keep the poor ones "just alive", but they
never hesitate to mekae profit of them... Anyway, this is too complex,
but any comments are welcome.
Greetings,
Lubosh
From: OPRNAD@SAUPM00.BITNET (Iyad A.M. Al-Bukhari)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.nodmgt-l
Subject: OMNET
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:30:49 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Acknowledge-To: <OPRNAD@SAUPM00.BITNET>
Comments: To: NetServ Management List <NETSRV-M@HEARN.BITNET>

Dear folks,
one of our researchers asked me to seek information on how to access
OMNET. Since I do not know nor have anything about it, I thought to
ask about it on these lists. I am sorry, I know that some of you might
get this on both lists but I need more information.
Thanx alot in advance for any help you offer......

+---------------------------------------+------------------------------+
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|Node Administrator of GulfNet at KFUPM |         OPRIAB@SAUPM00.BITNET|
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Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Princeton University, Network Systems, Class. 56
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.nodmgt-l
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:55:08 -0500
From:         gettes@PRINCETON.EDU
Subject:      Re: INTERBIT and related..
Comments: cc: earn-nog@frmop11.BITNET, interbit@bitnic.BITNET
              16 Dec 92 14:45:52 -0500. <9212161951.AA09546@Princeton.EDU>

On Wed, 16 Dec 92 14:45:52 -0500 valdis@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu said:
> 'tell listserv at bitnic sub interbit'  gets me
>
> '* Sorry, list INTERBIT is closed.'
>
> I think some more coordination is needed to ensure that those people
> who may wish to run INTERBIT gateways are able to get on the list where
> discussion of said gateways will be.
>
> /Valdis

I seem to remember a while ago that the INTERBIT list was supposed
to have been made public. I strongly recommend that it be made a
public list as soon as possible. I apologise for not checking this
before posting the papers, but I thought this was the case.

/mrg
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Organization: Virginia Polytechnic Institute
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.nodmgt-l
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:45:52 EST
From:         Valdis Kletnieks <VALDIS@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      INTERBIT and related..

'tell listserv at bitnic sub interbit'  gets me

'* Sorry, list INTERBIT is closed.'

I think some more coordination is needed to ensure that those people
who may wish to run INTERBIT gateways are able to get on the list where
discussion of said gateways will be.

/Valdis
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