HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Greatest moments in baseball history
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:54:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.163229.12137@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker) writes:
>At a party the Saturday night, I got into a discussion with a friend
>about great moments in Dodger history, most of which were very bad for
>the Bums. Our bad list included:

>*having triple play against you in WS, 1920, and unassisted at that
>*having your best hitter, Babe Herman, double into a double play (the
> famous three men on third play)
>*Mickey Owen's passed ball in 1941

Cal Abrams not scoring from third on the last weekend of 1950.

>*Bobby Thomson's HR in the 1951 playoff

How about walking in the winning run in the 62 playoff?!?!?

>*having the only perfect game in WS history thrown at you, '56

Getting shut down by Bob Kuzava (with help from Billy Martin) in 
the last game of the 52 Series.

>*taking three shutout losses in '66 WS
>*having Greg Nettles rob you blind again and again, in 78 WS
>*having Reggie go deep three times in one game, in 77 WS

>The only clear offsets we had were
>*Kirk Gibson's HR in '88
>*Lavagetto's two-out 9th-inning double to end Bevens' nohitter and win
> the game

Al Gionfriddo's catch in the same Series.

>*Sandy Amoros' catch of Berra's drive in '55

The 63 Series -- announcing the real end of the Yankee dynasty.

Knocking out Bill Terry "Is Brooklyn still in the league?" and his 
Giants the last week of the 34 season.


Roger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Will the draft be on TV?
Originator: news@nimaster
Keywords: new reader doesn't know
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:51:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.212158.20773@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> prm@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (paul.r.mount) writes:

>	(Sorry if FAQ/common info, new reader here)

>	Will the greatly anticipated draft be on TV the way the
>NBA draft is televised, pick by pick for a few rounds?  I think
>it'd be great if it were.

>	If not, would you believe ESPN radio network?

>	Even if it's just 2 teams, still would be worth it, 
>rather than one lump article in the papers the next day.

I'd agree, except I don't think I'll have time to watch.  Oh, well.

>	Nuff said.  Was surprised Yankees protected Pat Kelly
>and not Andy Stankiewicz.  After Andy outplayed Kelly this year.

You have an odd definition of "outplayed."

Kelly:       226/301/374
Stankiewicz: 268/338/348

Sure, Stankiewicz's performace is a *little* better.  Nothing special,
though.  And he's 4 (?) years older, and has never done this well before.

Not much of a surprise at all, really.

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Mike Mussina 1992 AL Cy Young Winner
niepornt@phoenix.    |------------------------------------ 
   princeton.edu     | "I still believe in a place called Hope."
Clinton/Gore '92.  Don't stop thinking about tomorrow.
Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 07:21:05 -0500 
From: Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Who pays for this?

Assuming that the expansion lists have leaked, who pays?   I am glad
they have been released.  All teams should have to bear scrutiny for who
they protect.  Now the expansion draft will actually have a following. 
Everyone can watch the draft with their lists.  Monday should have a
bunch of mock drafts in local papers and on the net.

I was thinking that a big market team like the Mets could probably sell
their list for more than the $250,000 fine.  Wouldn't the New York Times
love to have that list?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Reds/Yanks Trade
From: grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner)
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:32:35 EST
 <4NOV199211054426@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu><9118@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> <4NOV199216251376@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: /etc/organization
In-reply-to: yankees@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu's message of Wed, 4 Nov 1992 21:25:00 GMT

In article <4NOV199216251376@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu>, Kenneth M Gelfand writes:

> 	The New York Times is reporting (for anyone who got past the 
> election results) that Danny Tartabull is now expendable.  Now unless
> they consider Gerald Williams to develop into a fantastic hitter, that's
> laughable.   Tartabull may well be the only solid righty in the lineup now.

Brock2 projections, including his numbers from 1988-1992:

  YEAR     G    AB     R     H    2B    3B    HR   RBI    BB   AVG
  1988   146   507    80   139    38     3    25   102    76 0.274 
  1989   133   441    54   118    22     0    18    62    69 0.268 
  1990    88   313    41    84    19     0    15    60    36 0.268 
  1991   132   484    78   153    35     3    31   100    65 0.316 
  1992   123   421    72   112    19     0    25    85   103 0.266 
  1993   136   492    81   137    28     1    26    84    87 0.278 
  1994   138   500    82   138    26     1    26    83    99 0.276 
  1995   143   511    79   140    27     1    24    81    92 0.274 
  1996   145   523    73   135    25     1    22    76    99 0.258 
  1997   146   520    72   137    26     1    21    75    87 0.263 
  1998   147   520    67   132    24     1    19    70    90 0.254 
  1999   148   518    63   130    24     1    17    66    85 0.251 
  2000   148   515    54   120    22     0    15    59    83 0.233 
  2001   149   512    62   133    24     1    15    63    81 0.260 
  2002   149   508    45   110    20     0    11    50    78 0.217 
  2003    59   168    18    41     7     0     4    18    25 0.244 
  2004    28    47     4    11     2     0     1     4     7 0.234 
TOTALS  2482  8674  1207  2314   448    24   378  1349  1412 0.267 

.275 with 25 homers and 90 walks isn't bad, but it isn't worth five
million dollars for a poor defensive RF/DH.  That's what makes him
expendable.

--
David Grabiner, grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu
"We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary."
"Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Disclaimer: I speak for no one and no one speaks for me.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: karaki@jarthur.claremont.edu (Kurt*z* S. Araki)
Subject: Re: 5 truly unbreakable records.
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 06:08:01 GMT

In article <92309.122328RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> writes:
>enough of this "no one will ever hit 800 dingers" crap.  here are five
>*real* unbreakable records, by any decent definition of "unbreakable":
>
>1) lifetime batting average.  1.000.  many people.
>2) lifetime era.  0.00.  many people.
>3) single season slugging average.  4.000.  bill lefebvre, 1938;
>   buster narum, 1963.
Don't forget Jamie Quirk, sometime in the 80's.

>4) lifetime winning percentage.  1.000.  many people.
>5) coolest.  steve balboni.
>
>
>bob vesterman.
>


-- 
When I was I child, I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. 
I turned to look, but it was gone.	/----------------------------------- 
I cannot put my finger on it now.	|karaki@jarthur.claremont.edu
The child has grown; the dream is gone.	|"Pink isn't well..."
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Mattingly, what a fine fielder (was: Hardly not etc.)
Date: 7 Nov 1992 17:22:32 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

'>No one would *ever* judge a hitter mainly by his stance and swing --
'>that would be foolish.  David Segui looks really great at the plate, but
'>he can't hit.  Meanwhile, Dave Winfield has never looked very good at
'>the plate (to me) and yet he's an excellent hitter.
'>
'>Who got more hits last year -- Willie McGee, with his awful looking
'>swing, or John Olerud, with his great swing?  Surprise!  It was Willie
'>McGee.  Who was better at basestealing -- Mike Devereaux, one of the
'>fastest guys in the league, or Ron Karkovice, a catcher?  Surprise!  Ron
'>Karkovice stole as many bases, and much more successfully.
'>
'>But watching them certainly wouldn't have told you that, while the stats DO.

	So if you are suddenly put in the position of being a major league
   manager, you would evaluate talent in spring training by sitting in the
   clubhouse waiting for someone to hand you each games stats, without
   ever having to bother watching a game. 

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu


'>David M. Nieporent   | Mike Mussina 1992 AL Cy Young Winner
'>niepornt@phoenix.    |------------------------------------ 
'>   princeton.edu     | "I still believe in a place called Hope."
'>Clinton/Gore '92.  Don't stop thinking about tomorrow.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Unofficial Protected Lists from San Jose Mercury
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:58:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.174019.1662@leland.Stanford.EDU> myles@leland.Stanford.EDU (Myles Sussman) writes:
>Warning:  The Mercury News probably doesn't know for sure.
>
>From the San Jose Mercury News, 11/12/92:

Note that the Mercury News attributes these lists to the Chicago Tribune.
I fully expected that the protected lists would leak somewhere since MLB is
basically incapable of actually keeping a secret, but I find it interesting
that the information was first broken by the Chicago Tribune, also known as
the owners of the Chicago Cubs.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: Robert_N_Brauer@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Giants news on ESPN (was Re: Florida awaits the Giants!
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 17:52:25 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na
  <1992Nov10.053732.13923@bradley.bradley.edu>

Just announced on KCBS radio:
The sale of the Giants to Tampa Bay has been rejected by the team owners.
Regards, Bob.   hofbrau@cup.portal.com
From: peppler@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Randy Peppler)
Subject: Re: Who was the favorite player of your youth?.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:12:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.194915.18664@cs.tulane.edu> eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu writes:
>>In article <1dc77oINNjep@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes:
>>>
>>>OK, now for someone completely different:

	Ha!  How are these:

	Ed Herrmann and Joel Horlen!  And, Tommy John when he was a
	nothing with the White Sox...

-- 
-------------------------------
| Randy Peppler               |
| Illinois State Water Survey |
| peppler@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu    |
From: RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Algorithm for rating pitchers?
Date: 3 Nov 92 17:11:12 GMT

when drafting for earl weaver baseball, i had to come up with some
way to determine which pitchers i wanted.  w/l is obviously a dumb
way to pick, and though era is better, it's not really all that great.
i'd like to choose pitchers by the amount of runs that they're probably
going to give up, not the number that they did give up.  the two may
have nothing in common with each other, especially for relievers.

so anyway, i figured, "an out's good, a strikeout's better, a walk's bad,
a hit is worse, and a dinger is awful."

then i assigned numbers which may have absolutely no basis in reality
to "good, better, bad, worse, and awful."  the formula i ended with
was

           ab-h+k
       ----------------
        bb+2.5*h+4*hr

regardless of whether the numbers have any basis in reality, in general
my teams kick butt, so i would guess that this formula does at least
a decent job.

as a side note, the first time i used this formula (on al 1991 stats),
the range of values for pitchers listed in elias was 0.7487 (rob murphy)
to 2.5240 (dennis eckersley).  discounting the eck, the range was from
0.7487 to 1.6868 ....  holy eck, batman.

bob vesterman.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: shadow@r-node.gts.org (Jay Chu)
Subject: Re: Jays' player changes and 1993
Organization: R-node Public Access UNIX Information System (416-249-5366)
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1992 02:02:35 GMT

In article <steph.720829282@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>>Obviously you're still living in the past.  Eddie Zosky is no longer the Jays'
>>#1 shortstop of the future after his poor performances in last years' training
>>camp and the unforgivable errors he accumulated in the minors.
>
>>Griffen is also a free agent, didn't you know?  I doubt that the Jays will
>>resign him.  Now, Manuel Lee was, and I quote, the best shortstop in
>>the American League this season.  Why would you give up on him?  The guy is
>>only 27 years old and just learned to play his game as good as anybody.

>Who are you quoting?  I don't think Lee was close to being the best shortstop
>in the American League this season.  
>-- 
>Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic
>
>  "It is considered good to look wise, especially when not 
>   overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball

Joe Morgan on ESPN.
-- 
        ______                shadow@r-node.gts.org
       | |__| |   If it's there and you can see it       - it's real
       |  ()  |   If it's there and you can't see it     - it's transparent
       |______|   If it's not there and you can't see it - you erased it!
From: ism1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (IAN SETH MILLER)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Yankees 1993 lineup
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:59:45 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

With all this talk of expansion I think we sholud try to put together a
supposed team.  I am going to say that Tartabull and Maas are selected which
is the prediction made in the USA TODAY

    1B.  Mattingly (A Given)
    2B.  P. Kelly (Hopefully he'll start hitting for average)
    SS.  Gallego  (If he doesn't get hurt or drafted the Yankees can't pay
    over a millon a year for the guy to sit)
    3B.  Hayes  (He performed well last year suppling great defense, decent
    power and lacked a little for batting average)
    RF.  O'Neil/G.Williams (They already made the mistake of trading Kelly so
    they're going to have to hope O'neil hits like he did in 1991.  Most
    people have give up on G.Williams, but the reports I read say he hits for
    good power, has speed and plays well defensively.  Plus last year in
    Spring Training he looked very good)
    CF.  B.Williams (With R.Kelly gone CF belongs to Bernie)
    LF.  Bonds (If the Yankees shell out the 7 million.  If not they let
    Gerald play or Tartabull if he doesn't get taken)
    C.  Nokes/Asmus (Hopefully Nokes even with his power will be phased out
    because the defense must improve behind the plate)
    DH. Snow/Muelens (Both have proven there worth in the minors and although
    Muelens had a shot two years ago they both should be given a chance)

    Pitchers
    Perez (great year)
    Cone  (they must sign him before Bonds)
    Milletelo (will be given a full year to see what he can do)
    Wickman (same as above)
    Springer (hasn't looked to good so far, but will be given another chance)

    Farr (I hope the Yankees keep him)
    Monteleone (Played well last year)
    Haybayan (Pitched well before getting hurt)
    Nielson (Made the jump from AA.  The Yanks only lefty)

    Hopefully the Yanks will be getting another lefty in the pen

    The final position players will be:
    IF. Velarde (filled in nicely last year)
    OF. James (Played O.K. and fills 5 th. outfield spot)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: larrow@novell.com (Les Arrow)
Subject: Thoughts on the Reds/Yankees Trade
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, Califonia
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:33:19 GMT

Personally, I think this was a good move for both teams.

It is no secret that both players were unhappy. Rumors of O'Neill's 
depressing attitude were coming out of Cincinatti while Kelly wanted to
stay a third hitter and drive in runs.

Yankee stadium should help O'Neill's power. Look what the short right
porch did for Matt Nokes. Paul's a patient hitter who should draw a good
sum of walks. He's got pretty good mobility and is a fair fielder. Stick
him in the middle of the lineup and I would forecast .250/.340 20 HRs 90 RBIs.

On the other hand, the Reds get Roberto Kelly. Probably the most overrated
rotisserie player I have ever seen. What does this guy really do for you?
He plays a good center field with good speed. Can steal about 30-40 bases
a year. Doesn't walk much, so certainly isn't a good leadoff man. Fact is
he wants to bat in the middle of the lineup which I don't think is a good
idea. My forecast for Kelly is .280/.340 15 HRs 75 RBI 30 SBs.

Based on these forecasts, it looks like O'Neill will help the Yankees more
than Kelly will help the Reds, and I believe that. But I also think that
Kelly will help the Reds more than O'Neill would have. The problem for the
Reds will be using Kelly correctly. I'd say bat him 6th to take advantage
of his speed and occasional power.

--Les


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: scott@asd.com (Scott Barman)
Subject: Re: Extra playoffs (was: Re: I'm sorry, Jays didn't show me much)
Organization: American Software Development Corp., West Babylon, NY
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:16:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.172212.7782@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>> At much
>>lower per-game ratings, the networks can conceivably still get more people
>>to watch in total, and make more money.
>
>I thought the networks were generally interested in the per-game rating,
>not the total count.  

The way the the time is sold is a guarenteed audience at the time of
viewing (based on ratings numbers compiled by the A.C. Neilson Company). 
If an advertiser was promised a 20 rating, advertized on one game and
that game had a rating of 16, then the network would have to "make good"
on the reduced audience.  However, if they sell a block of time to a
large advertizer, the network will promise them an "average" audience
over a certain time.  That certain time is measured in games.  The rates
paid and audience guarentees change the longer the series goes.  In
fact, if the series did not meet audience projections the rate could go
down for subsequent games.

NOTE: Unofficially, CBS will have to make good on approx. $2 million in
advertizing (I have been told).  This is the lowest total of their brief
history in broadcasting baseball.
-- 
scott barman			| <This space intentionally left blank>
scott@asd.com			|
 (I can barely speak for myself, you expect me to speak for my employer??)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: The value of speed (was Re: bonds in atlanta in 1993)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:36:52 GMT

In article <Bx9GHF.Byt@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> summers@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (erick m. summers) writes:

>	I could see this working, and by including this statement you
>contradict yourself.  First you say adding stolen bases doesn't seem right
>and then you demonstrate how to use Bill James' formula to factor in the
>stolen base.

Excuse me, but what I said, in the context of my response to David Bonar, was
that it was not right to add the stolen bases directly into SLG.

.52 sounds right because you would expect the runner who steals the base to
be the only runner about half of the time, IMHO.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: bun@ruitor.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Leon Bun)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Dutch Players
Date: 4 Nov 92 15:09:05 GMT

Does anyone know how Robert Eenhoorn did in the minor league this year ?
Last year he played in the Yankee organization in Class A. I think he played
in Peoria, but I'm not sure.
What are his chances to make it to the major league ? By the way he's a
short stop. Who are in front of him at short stop in the Yankee organization ?
If you have any information on him or other Dutch players please post it or
email me.
Thank you very much,

Leon Bun
From: ddyte@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Aussie Bball News #2- The Rules
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:26:57 +1100
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

Just in case anyone's interested, here are some of the silly
rules that the Pepsi Australian Baseball League has adaopted
in the interests of attracting more fans:

1) Some idiotic thing called the designated hitter rule :-)

2) Allowing 4 overseas imports per team. This means at least one
   starting pitcher from each team is some talented but wild US
   A Ball guy who gets smacked around a lot because they sent him
   here to try to find a changeup. It's good with batters, but some
   of these imported pitchers I'm very wary of.

3) A ten run mercy rule, allowing the game to be called anytime after
   the seventh inning is completed if a team has, or will have at the
   end of the inning, a ten run or more lead.

4) (and this is the one I really don't like) A designated runner rule.
   Catchers are allowed (it may be compulsory but I'm not sure) a
   designated runner when they get on base so they can get back to the
   dugout and suit up faster for the next half inning. They must really
   think the crowds are fussy round here.

5) Aluminium bats. This isn't too bad, since the teams have very little
   money to throw around, but bear in mind that the Sydney Blues play
   at Parramatta Stadium, a rugby league ground, which is tiny. The right
   field line is 240 feet long. Home runs, home runs, and more home runs.

As soon as I can get to a newspaper, I'll post opening day reports.

                                     - David Dyte
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 11 Nov 1992 21:46:52 EST
From: Ryan R Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Expand the Play-offs
 <wall-051192170256@elvis.swarthmore.edu> <1992Nov6.172800.7938@adobe.com>

Having a consolation playoff between the two league championship
series losers before the World Series would be a big waste of
time and money for all. Who cares who came in "3rd?" The only
thing that matters is the World Series. I wouldn't wouldn't even
watch the series on tv.

+===============================================================+
||   RYAN ROBBINS                    INTERNET:                 ||
||   UNIVERSITY OF MAINE             IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU   ||
+===============================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball