From: farshid@baum.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Farshid Ketabchi)
Subject: Iranian/American culture (Re: .. translator in the house)
Keywords: followup on Aref/Ala discussion, Iranian/American cultural diff.
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 15:53:33 GMT


In article <C1A006.JEA@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Ala) writes:
|> aref@Tehran.Stanford.EDU (Modda'iyeh har hAzer va Vakileh har ghAyeb) writes:
|> 
|> >In article <C18AKL.3xt@news.cso.uiuc.edu> 
|> >yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Ala) writes:
|> >>
|> >>I do not think that we are here to provide with Americans the way
|> >>to date Iranian girls.  I just do not think this media should be
|> >>used in this manner.  This is only one person's opinion.  I've
|> >>
|> >>I do think that IRANI girls ARE too good for Americans.
|> >>But again I am talking about IRANI and not so called Persian-Americans.
|> >>In general I am against dating and casual relationships.
|> >>It seriusly contradicts our culture.
|> >>This, I know, is not only MY opinion.
|> >>
|> >>Ala
|> 
False.  In general, saying one type of people are better than another is wrong.
You cannot simply compare cultural values on an absolute goodness
scale.  There is no such thing.  Now what you said here specifically, is
totally biased.  Stereotyping at its best.


|> I did not judge anyone on the personal level.  I made an statement based
|> on general characteristcs and cultural values of two different systems.
|> Not two different countries or two different races and not even two
|> different languages.  An IRANI girl is after entering warmth and security
|> of a family.  from young ages they are after a good husband, someone they
|> can share they moments of life with.  They are after permanent relationships
|> raising kids and promoting family values.ng
|>
Not true of all Iranian women.  I dislike the attitude of some Iranian
women (not GIRLS) who are so weak and dependent first on Dad and brother
and then on some prince charming who is gonna come and marry them.  Un-
fortunately, it is not their fault either; it is just the way they are
socialized into this world; it's just in our culture.

Besides, who said that 'husband', 'permanent relationship', 'family', etc are
good?  And whatt is 'good', 'bad', 'right', 'wrong', ... in the first place?
(This is all ethics crap.)  Things DO NOT need to be the way we have seen in
the past or we have been taught; there are alternatives.  I personally (like
many others) would like to have a family some day but just because someone
thinks otherwise does not make him wrong or bad in any ways.  Don't accept
anything blindly.  Question anything that is passed by your eyes and ears.


|> What is the goal of a typical American boy?
|> Certainly having a family is last in their agenda.  After overusing their
|> sexual powers and getting tired of chasing girls, they are usually forced
|> into entering a mariage that does not usually last very long. 
|>
Generalization, generalization, ...  and false.

They are not after sex anymore than many Iranian guys are.  And they are
not forced into marriages any more than us.  In fact I have known many
Iranian guys who fit this senario.  Many of Iranian guys (especially those
who have lived in US for a while) have a severe case of double-standards.
Do you think it's OK to date numerous (American) women with nothing in mind
but sex, and then once you're hitting late thirties are ready to settle
down, say go to Iran and bring yourself a teenage wife who's expected to
be from a 'najeeb' family, who is supposedly has not been involved with
anyone?


|> Sure there are exceptions.  Americans that honor family values and Iranians
|> who does not and I did not mean to generalize this rule.

You just did generalize.

 
|> I am not sure you know what you are talking about.  Who did I label?
|> Why are you so upset about my criticism of this culture.  This society
|> is GOING DOWN TO HELL and I as an proud IRANI have all the rights to
|> express my ideas about my own culture and differences with this one.

This culture is not going down, any more than anywhere else in the world.
In fact, it is in a much better shape than many other countries (especially
the thirld world ones.)  There are serious problems with it (as there are
with many others,) but there are also some strong points about it.


|> Without any doubt Iranian clture is way superior to theAmerican culture
|> in many respects among which is the way we look at the world, our
|> expectation from life, the way we treat our family, our elderly, the
|> way we eat, what we eat, the way we socialize, the way we celebrate
|> our hollidays and etc.

False.  Not only your statement is false, such superiority claims should not
be made in public forum such as SCI unless one is comfortable with socially
unacceptable labels.  But this does not surprize me as Iranians (perhaps in
some cases more than other cultures) are blessed with ethnocentrism and
racism.  Both cultures have positive and negative points.  (I very well
remember people's attitude back home towards Afghani's and Indians.)

Both cultures have positive and negative points.


|> Let me tell you what is sad.
|> It is sad that today we are witnessing people who call themselves IRANI
|> but the only thing they have retained from their Iranian-ness is their
|> name (in many cases this is not even true).  many of them shameful for
|> being Irani called themselves Persians and at best tried to be agood
|> Persian-American (Ajab ma'joone bee mosammaa'ee).

I suppose you think I am one too.  Well, I am a very proud Iranian and cherish
many of the things that go with being an Iranian.  I am very much in touch
with my culture and other Iranians around me.  But I also keep an open mind
about issues in general.  If I judge that a certain way of doing things on
some issue is better than our way, then I have no problem with giving that new
way a chance and adapting it if I decide so.  As an immigrant who does not
plan to return to Iran, I don't see any problem with this adaptation, or at
the least trying to understand what is going on rather than calling it
inferior to others, doomed, or whatever.  But as an Iranian, I too have some
bias towards certain things, and I know that there is room for improvement.

After all before being Iranian, muslims, or whatever, we, like every one
else in the world, are human beings and that should go way beyond color,
religion, language, country, and culture.  Culture and religion should be
utilized as the means of unifying different sectors of earth's population
and not as tools for creating conflicts, hatred, and wars among them.


|> Yes, it is indeed sad to witness awhole generation of Iranian immigrants
|> going down the American drain.

And rest assure that I am not going down the drain.  My bones would be
rotted by now, had I not left Iran some years ago.  I am all around a better
person than the time I was back home.  And I am sure this holds true for
many others like me.


|> Your concern about major rdneckness against Americans only seems to be
|> another characteristic of a person assimilated into this society.
|> 
|> Let's try to be IRANI they way Iranians have always been not they way
|> we are told to be.
 
Let's be an open-minded human being before anything else.

|> Ala


Farshid Ketabchi
farshid@inoms.bellcore.com


           "My holy of holies  is the human body, health,
           intelligence,  talent,  inspiration, love, and
           absolute  freedom -- freedom from violence and
           falsehood, no matter how the last two manifest
           themselves."

                                        -- Anton Chekhov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian