From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on...
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 00:09:04 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Summary: an opinion
Followup-To: doug:  < doug@eng.umd.edu > : < doug@lpf.umd.edu >
Keywords: another opinion, worth about what you paid for it .....
Bcc: +dist+~sc1u/Public/wiseguys.dl@andrew.cmu.edu,menolly!barbara@harvard.harvard.edu

In article <43396@as0c.sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:

>>I'm not trying to hardtime you or anything, this is just curiosity.
>>Which martial artists do you consider to be exemplary fighters?
>
>Well, in his youth (and who knows, perhaps even now), I would view Bruce
>Lee as lunch for my teacher (and I don't believe my teacher is the best).
>
>I have mention Cai Hong Xiang before on the bb (he holds a title for 5-time
>national championship, full-contact on the mainland).  Xie Bing Can (not a
>name anyone has heard of) is yet another.  Fu Zhong Wen (quite famous) is
>another, Wang Su Ping (also famous)... the list goes on.  Plus! There is
>another phenomenon in China: take for example the story of Wang Su Ping, who
>is famous for having taken challenges of all kinds for years, winning against
>this humungous Russian fighter at one point, etc., only to be humbled
>completely by some unknown from the countryside who managed to seriously
>bruise his chest with what appeared to be a slight touch.  Bruce Lee doesn't
>even figure alongside these people.
>

	just of the living champions, that i personally know....  Yim Tai Loi,
Tat Mau Wong, Anthony Goh, Chen Tai Shan, Y.C.Wong,  and i could go on, and
most of them don't particularly think too highly of bruce lee's skills, and
none of them would consider him a master.  but then, bruce lee didn't hold
with title and such anyway, never having _mastered_ *any* style....
	oh, and these guys are mostly his contemporaries, (except for Shan and
Y.C. Wong,) when he was alive.... and their creditials are a matter of record,
where as i have been unable to locate any verifiable documentation of *any*
title or championship, or other recognizable accalim that bruce lee ever won.
(except in movies...)
	as for his skills, as judged by his movies, we all know that you do
not need to have any real skills to look good in a movie.  jackie chan, probably
the world's most recognized movie martial artist since bruce lee was a chinese
acrobatic theatre trained performer, and has since picked up some skills, but
is by no means a martial arts master.  yet, if you ask the average jackie chan
fan, the would swear up and down that he is one of the greatest masters.
	last year, perhaps the last of the greatest Shaolin Temple Masters of 
this century passed away from old age.  he was on of the foremost practitioners
of Chi Kung, iron finger kung fu, and (what translates somewhat ackwardly as)
'little boy kung fu', and he died at the relatively young age of about 128.  
some claim he could have lived to 200 (hey! that's what they say) if he would
have taken a little bit better care of himself by _occasionally_ eating some
animal meat proteins, but hey!  i hope to make it to that age any way i can!
his name was Hai Tong (spelling may not be correct) and he spent much time in
the emei mt. studying Chi Kung, (which is said to be the birthplace of the art.)	i think that bruce lee would have been dog meat for any number of his 
students (i've seen demonstrations of some of their skills,)  and would have
been virtually un-noticed by his number one student, (whom i believe took over
as the chief abbot of the Shaolin Temple...).
	i would have to agree with the two people who pointed out that bruce
lee's main claim to fame is his charisma on the screen and the recognition he
brought to chinese kung fu.  he brought out to the sino-phobic 'western' culture
a fighting art that far surpassed anything we have produced to date, and
showed that the chinese had had this for centuries, and were willing to share it
with any who wanted to partake.
	he was NOT a god, or even a master.  he was fast, in excellent condition
and charismatic.  a fair actor, and a fair philosopher, but a man, none the 
less!  his 'true' contemporaries who were qualified to judge his skills, never
recognized him as a master of any style, so he made up one, based on his 
skills and training, and his philosophy.
	okay....
	all those who are worshipers of 'the bruce', i'm ready for your replies,
however, if you start to make a claim, please have something beside emotional
(and well meaning but misplaced) loyalty to 'the bruce' to substantiate your 
claims.  (remember, just 'cause you read it in blackbelt magazine don't make it
so!)
	{touch bin/smiles/#4}

        another opinion, worth about what you paid for it .....
        and, as always, i am/at:

             doug:  < doug@eng.umd.edu > : < doug@lpf.umd.edu >

           -=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >--=-=-=-=-=-=-

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts