HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: strobel@ssgv02.enet.dec.com (Jeff Strobel)
Subject: Re: Boston Marathon ?'s: Get the facts first
Reply-To: strobel@ssgv02.enet.dec.com (Jeff Strobel)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 13:58:27 GMT

my unsolicited $.02 worth.

Boston would have a crowded start even if the only people in the race
were those elite
runners under contract with John Hancock. For those who have not been
there, Hopkinton
is a small town and the start is on a shoulderless 2 lane road.

The race organizers do plan for an unofficial crowd. Allowing, but not
encouraging the
back of the pack runners seems to me to be a trade off between only
letting qualifiers
run (about 3/4 of the field have qualified) or changing the criteria for
official entrance
to something like a lottery system akin to NY, which Boston could not
handle.

In my years of running, watching and volunteering at the BAA, I haven't
seen any problems
associated with an official runner being shortchanged (water, food,
medical assistance, etc)
by an unofficial runner. This isn't to say it hasn't happened, but the
organizers do plan
an excess of water and foil blankets to accomdate all.

My recommendation is that, if you're going to run unofficially, be
mindful of your position.
Start in the back. Even if you can run a 2:50 marathon, it won't qualify
you for the next 
year. You'll get water at the water stops. You'll be given a blanket at
the finish, but be 
sure to move through so that those who ran officially can get their
medals and food
(the folks are usually pretty generous with the food). 

Also, be reasonably sure you can complete the race - even walking. It's
a point to point
so if you've only trained to run 12 miles, you're screwed.

Additionally, Boston's a great event and if you're going to run it for
that reason, great.
If, however, you want to run a marathon officially in NE in the spring,
I'd encourage you
to consider the Vermont City Marathon in Burlington, VT Memorial Day
weekend or the
Sugarloaf Marathon in Maine the weekend before.


jeff
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima)
Subject: In Search of Mr. Running Shoes
Organization: University of Hawaii
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:51:54 GMT

There have been some queries about different brands/models of shoes on
this net, so it brings me to these questions:

What DO you do when you can't find shoes you like in your neighborhood
shoe store? (if they don't carry the model you want).
Mail order companies are fine, but how many of them are there besides
Road Runner Sports?
Could somebody list or contribute to a list of mail order places in
this newsgroup?
Finally, what if the mail order places don't keep your model, either?
Do some shoe companies let you order direct?

Thanks!


--
A. Lani Teshima, (future) Famous Librarian--an oxymoron  o | /_/_/ "Sea Hare"
Univ of Hawaii Grad. School of Library & Info Studies     o|<0_0>--------*
teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu (preferred)                  \=^-| |____\ \
TESHIMA@UHUNIX.BITNET                                           <_>     \_}}E
From: smay@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:21:26 GMT
Subject: Re: In Search of Mr. Running Shoes
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.running

Regarding mail order places: if you want to find multiple sources and know
the shoes they carry, just look in the back of any Runner's World magazine.

I've bought from Road Runner, California Best, Runner's Supply (defunct?),
all with good luck/service.

cheers,
scott smay

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: reider@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Marc Reider)
Subject: Re: US Olympic Trials
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 02:24:40 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.230644.23699@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> pfleming@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick E Fleming) writes:
>Well, Steve Spence won with a time of 2:12:43.  Second was taken by Ed Eyestone
>with a time of 2:12:51 and third was Robert Kempainen at 2:12:54.  These times
>are from memory and may be wrong!
>
>It was a pretty fast field (as you might expect) and the pace caused many
>runner to drop out.  Only 55 finished (with official times) out of the 110 who
>started.  At mile 10, there was a pack of about 20 to 30 runners.  At this 
>point Joseph Nitti was the leader.  Over the next 13 miles or so, Bill 
>Reifsnyder and Keith Brantly opened a slight lead but hit the wall around mile 
>22.  By Mile 23, the pack was down to Spence, Eyestone and Kempainen who had a 
>:06 lead over Brantly.  By mile 24, the lead had grown and it was clear which 
>three runners would represent the US in the Olympics.
>
>Ed Eyestone returns to the Olympic team after finishing 29th in '88.  Steve
>Spence took home $58,000 for the win.
>
>     - Pat

   Spence, Eyestone and Kempainen ran real smart races, and did not have
to kill themselves over the last 3 miles, which should help them
recover.  Its definitely a much better marathon team than 1988.  Spence
has proved he can do well in the right race, Eyestone is a solid runner
who's been there before, and Kempainen is I think the most promising
young US marathoner in a long time.  This was his 2nd marathon ever, and
he spent much of the winter injured.  Nonetheless all three are medal
long shots.  A top 8 performance by any would be a great run.

  I was surprised to see Brantly, who has a great track background, take
off at 13 miles.  He would have been better served to try to hang with
the pack and surge in the last few miles.  Outside of that there weren't
too many surprises.  Ken Martin's performance was a bit disappointing -
he had had a real strong cross country season.

  Did anybody watch the ridiculous coverage on NBC on Sunday ?  In an
hour show, there may have been about 10 minutes of running shown.  
It came off as a hour commercial for the Triplecast pay per view
coverage. Any fan who watched the telecast should be real worried if
that was a practice run for the Olympics coverage.  We can look forward
to lots of pictures of Barcelona, features on various stuff, lots of
commercials, and maybe then they'll sneak in the last lap of the 5000m
or a few minutes of the marathon.  

	Marc 
	reider@math.ucla.edu

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page)
Subject: Re: Boston Marathon ?'s: Get the facts first
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 20:59:36 GMT

My initial reaction a couple of years ago was the same as several of yours.
However, instead of posting something inflammatory or accusatory, I phrased
my response as a question.

What I found out was that the Boston organizers encourage unregistered runners
and do prepare for them, supply water, etc.  They just ask that unregistered
runners start at the back of the pack.

So while bandit runners are to be discouraged in general, it is not so at Boston.
So let's lay of of Rocket Ron Spangler.

Tom
From: babineau@bnr.ca (Michael Babineau)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: US Olympic Trials
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:05:31 GMT
Reply-To: babineau@bmerh812.BNR.CA
Distribution: na
Organization: BNR Ottawa, DMS Software Design

In article <1992Apr14.022440.29105@math.ucla.edu>, reider@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Marc Reider) writes:

|>   Did anybody watch the ridiculous coverage on NBC on Sunday ?  In an
|> hour show, there may have been about 10 minutes of running shown.  
|> It came off as a hour commercial for the Triplecast pay per view
|> coverage. Any fan who watched the telecast should be real worried if
|> that was a practice run for the Olympics coverage.  We can look forward
|> to lots of pictures of Barcelona, features on various stuff, lots of
|> commercials, and maybe then they'll sneak in the last lap of the 5000m
|> or a few minutes of the marathon.  

On a related note, there was an excellent article in Runners World a 
couple of months ago, regarding how little running is actually shown
in TV coverage of Marathons. If I remember correctly the article is 
quite funny, but you realize how true it is.

-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|Michael Babineau           | BITNET: babineau@BNR.CA                    |
|Bell Northern Research Ltd.| UUCP  : ..!uunet!bnrgate!bmerh812!babineau |
|Ottawa, ON. CANADA         |         ..!psuvax!BNR.CA.bitnet!babineau   |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: spesau@acs.ucalgary.ca (Shane P Esau)
Subject: Ironman Canada
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:22:28 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta, Canada

This is to all of you triathletes and others who are interested
in participating in Ironman Canada.  As some of you have heard,
the race director from previos years has filed bankruptcy and is
no longer the race director (this is good from the stories I have
heard about her).  Anyways, the future of the race was in limbo.
It seems now though that alot of people are very interested in
keeping this race alive.  The following companies (and more
probably) have sent representatives to Penticton to try to
arrange the race this year: World Triathlon Corp, City of
Penticton, City of Kelowna, Marvelous Muffins (they were owed big
$$$) by the previous race director, and some private investors
from the city of Penticton.  The meeting was last night (April
8), but I have not heard what happened - maybe tonight at
practice - one of my co-triathletes has parents living there
keeping him on top of things.  Anyways, it appears that the race
is a Go, and those who have already paid their fees, it appears
they will honor those.  I hope that people are a little relieved
to hear this - it would be a shame for Canada to lose this great
race

Shane Esau
Univ of Calgary Tri Club



Xref: sparky rec.running:1040 misc.fitness:3342
From: grs02502@stat.appstate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running,misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Max Acceleration, Min Space
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:36:49 EDT
Organization: Appalachian State University

In article <1992Apr8.220424.4907@ac.dal.ca>, jpeach@ac.dal.ca writes:
> In article <AJ3U.92Apr5153316@topaz.cs.virginia.edu>, aj3u@topaz.cs.virginia.edu (Asim Jalis) writes:
>> If one is running in order to lose weight, should one run longer
>> distances say three times a week or should one run shorter
>> distances more frequently during the week?
> 
> Distance is not important when you are running to loose weight.  What is 
> important is the number of Kcal that you burn.  The intensity does not matter
> as long as you burn 300 to 500 kcal per work out.  You should do this five
> times a week (work up to this, do not start at 5 times a week)  do not
> exercise when you feel pain and stop when you feel pain.   
>  
>  
> ///MiStEr pEaCh\\\


Intensity can play a role in how much fat is burned.  I don't think your
average person should use this method, but interval training can burn as much
fat as distance running.  I am currently working on a paper that supports this
finding.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: cognion@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Thirty-two and jammin'!)
Subject: Re: Boston Marathon ?'s
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date:  9 Apr 1992 09:39 EST  

In article <1992Apr8.224723.19575@schbbs.mot.com>, tolar@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
(Jim Tolar) writes...
>In article <1992Apr7.181810@voskhod.mit.edu> ron@voskhod.mit.edu (Rocket Ron 
>Spangler) writes:
>>I am planning to run my first marathon in a couple of weeks here in
>>Boston.  (Without a number, of course.)  Is there anyone out there who's
>>done it before .......
>>
> 
>Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but why should you expect anyone to
>provide anything for you at the water stops?  You aren't entered in the race,
>....
>|      Jim Tolar      |   uucp: ...!uunet!dover!tolar
>|                     |   internet: tolar@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com


I'm with you, Jim.  I think the race volunteers and organizers have a hell
of a job to do, even in a small 5k.  It doesn't feel right to me, either, to
run a race unregistered.  I hope you didn't get many flames over this!

The organizers are there long before you arrive and they will be there long
after you leave.  They are responsible for traffic, water, safety pins, timers,
bathrooms, parking, medical assistance, and countless other large and small
aspects of the race.  At the very least, they deserve your proper registration.

                            -------Rita
                                   cognion@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov
From: tarmstro@metz.une.oz.au (tarmstro)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: help with running store in Hawaii
Date: 15 Apr 92 09:58:31 GMT

Hi,
  Can somebody give me the address / phone No /fax No. of a good running shoe
and clothing store in Hawaii. My mother is going there on vacation (lucky her!)
next week, and I want her to pick me up some gear. Seeing as she would not know
a nike from k-mart brand, I want to contact the store before she goes to get
an idea of what is available and prices, so as I can give poor mother some
ideas!

Thanks in advance
Tim
tarmstro@metz.une.oz.au
From: pfz@sei.cmu.edu (Paul Zarrella)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Re: Boston Marathon ?'s: Get the facts first
Date: 16 Apr 92 11:58:51 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute

In article <51480004@hpindda.cup.hp.com> tsorg@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Teresa Sorg) writes:
>...If you want to be in a marathon you should pay
>the entry fee and/or be qualified (as in the case of the Boston) to run.
>If you want to see if you can run 26.2 miles then go out, clock a course
>and run it.  Otherwise, don't take the freebees or portapotties in the 
>race, there are a lot of people in the race that will be experienced and
>trying to qualify for another race!

While I have never run a race unregistered, I would just like to say that
people should do what they feel is right (regardless of what others say is
right) so long as they are acting "legally".  The whole issue of ethics is
such a personal thing that arguing over such points is basically fruitless.

However, I feel it necessary to share the following:

            THE TEN COMMANDMENTS FOR UNREGISTERED RUNNERS
            ---------------------------------------------
 1. Thou shalt not start anywhere but at the back of the pack - behind the
    registered runners...

 2. Thou shalt not run through the finish chute(s) - this messes up the
    timings...

 3. Thou shalt not interfere with the registered runners - this includes
    jostling them, cutting them off, or making fun of their shoes...

 4. Thou shalt not run unregistered in mail-order shoes - anyone that would
    even consider this is truly immoral/unethical...

 5. Thou shalt not drink at any of the water stops - water is extremely
    expensive, and handing it out to unregistered runers will tire the arms
    of the race volunteers...

 6. Thou shalt not pass a registered runner - this might give them an
    inferiority complex and not allow them to fully enjoy their "glory"...

 7. Thou shalt not require medical assistance - do the right thing and die!

 8. Thou shalt not wear a registration number from last year's race - this
    might confuse the more ethical of the registered runners and they might
    not get a chance to curse at you...

 9. Thou shalt not wear a T-shirt from last year's race - see commandment #8
    for explanation...

10. Thou shalt not flaunt thy non-registration - this includes taunting the
    registered runners with shouts of "Hey, I saved $10 and I still get to
    run", or "Who needs one of those T-shirts anyway; they're ugly"...
From: jayers@hamline.edu (Judi Ayers)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: US Olympic Trials
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:14:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: uc.1992Apr14.131458.5426
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hamline University, St. Paul, MN.

In article <1992Apr14.022440.29105@math.ucla.edu> reider@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Marc Reider) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.230644.23699@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> pfleming@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick E Fleming) writes:
>>Well, Steve Spence won with a time of 2:12:43.  Second was taken by Ed Eyestone
>>with a time of 2:12:51 and third was Robert Kempainen at 2:12:54.  These times
>>are from memory and may be wrong!
>>
>
>  Did anybody watch the ridiculous coverage on NBC on Sunday ?  In an
>hour show, there may have been about 10 minutes of running shown.  
>It came off as a hour commercial for the Triplecast pay per view
>coverage. Any fan who watched the telecast should be real worried if
>that was a practice run for the Olympics coverage.  We can look forward
>to lots of pictures of Barcelona, features on various stuff, lots of
>commercials, and maybe then they'll sneak in the last lap of the 5000m
>or a few minutes of the marathon.  
>
>	Marc 
>	reider@math.ucla.edu

Unfortunately I missed the hour coverage.  Doesn't sound good, but did
anyone notice that none of the BIG 3 networks even bothered with
the women's olympic trials!  ESPN did cover a whopping 30 minutes several
weeks later with *great* coverage by Tony Revis (sp?) and 
Lynn Williams...(total
sarcasm here).  When will these announcers figure out (especially on
ESPN) that their audience is probably made up of 90% runners that
understands what is going on in the race.
From: jayers@hamline.edu (Judi Ayers)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Boston Marathon ?'s
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:16:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: uc.1992Apr9.131632.29184
Organization: Hamline University, St. Paul, MN.

In article <1992Apr8.224723.19575@schbbs.mot.com> tolar@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Jim Tolar) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.181810@voskhod.mit.edu> ron@voskhod.mit.edu (Rocket Ron Spangler) writes:
>>I am planning to run my first marathon in a couple of weeks here in
>>Boston.  (Without a number, of course.)  Is there anyone out there who's
>>done it before 
>>who can give me some general information?  Like how much of a zoo is it
>>getting from Boston to Hopkinton on race morning?  I've heard the BAA
>>runs buses, but I don't have a number, so...   Is it likely to be
>>gridlock?  How early should one get there?
>>
>>Another question - what kind of fluids do they provide at the water
>>stops?  (I can't drink Gatorade - I get sick at about 15 miles if I
>>do.)
>>
>>I hope there's a lot of experience out there.  Thanks.
>>
>>  
>>
>>Ron Spangler
>
>Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but why should you expect anyone to
>provide anything for you at the water stops?  You aren't entered in the race,
>bozo. You aren't helping cover the expenses through your entry fee. 
>You are part of the problem, zoo-wise.  It seems to me to be the height of
>conceit to expect the race committee to prepare for every Boston wannabee
>that finds himself or herself within shouting distance of the starting line
>on race day.
> I applaud your desire to run a marathon.  It takes a great deal of
>discipline and effort to prepare for the event.  It takes as much of both of
>those to put one on (if not more).  Rather than running in the back door, why
>not actually enter one in your area?  Who knows?  You might even earn your
>way into Boston.
> I'm sure the crowd will flame me if I have over-stepped the bounds of
>decency here, and I apologize if I have.  Running unregistered just doesn't
>feel right to me.
>
>
>-- 
>|                     |   
>|      Jim Tolar      |   uucp: ...!uunet!dover!tolar
>|                     |   internet: tolar@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
>|      Go Cubs!       |
>|                     |   You occupy a much needed space.


I absolutely agree with you, Jim, and you said exactly what I was thinking
myself.  I have run in four marathons and someday I would like to
include Boston in my list.  If I have trained very hard to run in that
race I would hope that I would not have to deal with a bunch of runners
at the aid stations, or anywhere, that DO NOT HAVE numbers on.  I've never 
been to Boston to see the marathon, but I've heard its almost a tradition to
run in the back, numberless. But come on.  Let those who have earned it
run and enjoy *ALL* of the glory. (i'll get off of my soap box now - thx).

Judi Ayers
From: aigrain@irit.irit.fr (Philippe Aigrain)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Barcelona Marathon results and analysis
Date: 8 Apr 92 09:53:18 GMT
Organization: IRIT-UPS, Toulouse, France

March 17th, 1992, Start: 10:15 at Mataro

Women:
1. Monica Estarkova, Tchecoslovaquia, 2:34:07
2. Ana Isabel Alonso, Spain, 2:39:10
3. Maria Luisa Munoz, Spain, 2:40:09
4. Josefa Cruz Benitez, Spain, 2:40:41
5. Grigorenka Polina, CIS, 2:42:49

Man:
1. John Burra, Tanzania, 2:12:46
2. Rodrigo Gavela, Spain 2:14:27
3. K. Tsurusaki, Japan, 2:15:19
4. J. Crespo, Spain, 2:15:24
5. J. Montiel, Spain, 2:15:37

The prospect of runnning the same race that the Olympic
Marathon was appealing: 7100+ runners enlisted (more than
twice the previous record). The organization was sometimes
unable to cope with so many people, but on the whole did a
fine job. The water points were perfect.

As a matter of fact, it was not exactly the Olympic race:
from km 15 to 30, there were slight changes due to ongoing
road and building work (it looks like they will never be ready
but I know they will, which will not give us back Barceloneta
a lively popular restaurant neighbourhood now torn down to
give way to the olympic village).

13 degrees Celsius at start with 72% humidity. 20 degrees
when Burra finished, 25 degrees an hour later. Think of what 
it will be this summer at 6pm! The first 15K are very easy.
I guess the best runners will be prudent but unexperienced
enthousiasts like me are likely to run much too fast on this
part. At K. 17 and from K. 25 to 30 there is a succession
of easy up and down sections, just to make your legs hurt.
The final uphill 6K are not too difficult: a top level runner
which has kept some strength does not lose more than 1 minute
compared to a flat profile. But with the heat, humidity and
stress of an olympic race, Christophe Jalaguier (who was the
first french runner in 2:32:55) says that it is possible that
a runner being as much as 2 minutes behind at K. 36 might still
win. He sees a japanese runner winning or Dominique Chauvelier
(best french on the marathon these last years even if Soares has
beaten the french best in 2:10:03 in the Paris Marathon on 
March 31st). I rather see Bordin or Moneghetti.

John Burra and Monica Estarkova both finished in very good shape.
Burra was even incredible in the final climb from what I saw later
on TV. Consider that he might not make it to the tanzanian selection
considering the Shihanga brothers and Ikangaa! Gavela was a surprise.
I don't know what the spanish selection for the olympics will be.
Thousands of cheerful people all along the race, shouting "Animos"
(courage). Orchestras at various points. It is really worth to
run this marathon, even if from K10 to K30, the landscaoe is not
exactly touristic.

Philippe Aigrain
Institut de Recherche en Informatique de Toulouse
From: 01@pnet16.cts.com (Cdr Ketterer)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: help with running store in Hawaii
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:36:03 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet16], NCTAMS EASTPAC

1.  There is a running store in the "Ward's Warehouse" complex on Ala Moana
Blvd in Honolulu.  This is relatively close to the Waikiki area.  It's called
Runner's Route, it's address is 1050 Ala Moana Blvd.  Phone nr 523-6855. 
They carry all the top brands.  Hope your mom enjoys Honolulu.  Our weather
the past few days has been extraordinary!

UUCP: humu!nctams1!pnet16!01
ARPA: humu!nctams1!pnet16!01@nosc.mil
INET: 01@pnet16.cts.com
Xref: sparky rec.running:1008 misc.fitness:3267