From: haughwt@sccm.stanford.edu (James Haughwout)
Subject: Re: Super Strength
Organization: Scientific Computing/Computational Mathematics, Stanford
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 06:55:39 GMT

In article <Bz404s.oK@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, chak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Chak the Destroyer) writes:
|> In article <3PBVBBFK@cc.swarthmore.edu> jevans1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jerome R. Evans) writes:
|> >
|> >>Typical comic scene:
|> >
|> >[scene deleted]
|> >
|> >>What should happen IMHO:
|> >>Juggernaut: Take this!  [Punches Iceman.  Iceman's decapitated body slumps
|> >>            to the ground.  Iceman's head lands in Mexico City.
|> >> 
|> >Yeah, BUT- Iceman's ice coating acts as a shielding, like a suit of armor. 
|> >And maybe they learned to "roll with punches" during their countless Danger
|> >Room sessions.  Just a possibility.
|> 
|>   True, it's possible, but highly improbable.  Iceman's armor isn't even
|> strong enough to deflect a bullet.  See the Iceman limited series from way
|> back when, he was shot in the arm.  I have no idea how much damage one can
|> avoid by rolling with a punch, does someone else out there know?
|> 
|> Matt

I've had about six years of training in judo, tae kwon do, boxing, and a little
bit of gymnastics, also I was a decathelete for four years so I might be REMOTELY
qualified to answer this (although I've never had a danger room session, other
than some kendo at the Naval Academy).  By rolling away from a punch or kick, you
can evade about 80% of the blow, *IF* you're very well trained.  This however, is 
pretty useless against a punch from Juggernaut, Collossus, or anyone who
can lift 80-100 tons. 

For a possible explanation, I'll use my MIT engineering background.  Juggy can
lift over 100 tons, but if he tried to do it with his relatively tiny feet (in
comparison to bottom surface area of, say a crane) he would bury himself into the
ground.  Also, if he punched with half of that much force, he would need to brace
himself so he wouldn't fly backwards as he hit the object.  Basically, comic books don't address physics, but I'll try a classic "no-prise" explanation:

Punching power is based more on technique, speed, and hardness of the fist, as
opposed to pure strength.  Take a look at Bruce Lee who was comparitively tiny,
but could easily wrist-punch (a punch where you generate the force by rolling
your wrist outwards, your are basically only moves a few inches) through 4-6
inches of pine--whereas Alex Whats-his-name-I-forgot from the 1988 Olympics, who
set the clean-and-jerk record at 1160 pounds, could not punch through the same
pine board with a full punch.  Juggy can't move very fast, so he can't hit as
hard as he could if he knew how to fight.  His fists are hard and heavy, but the
move slowly--thus he can't punch with nearly as much force as he can lift.  This
also supports the reasoning that super-strong characters who get pissed of in a
fight, pick up something very heavy, say 40-80 tons, and chuck it at their
equally strong opponent (Remember the classic Juggernaut/Collossus brawls?). 
This is not very affect to mortals like us, because the thrown object doesn't go
very far and is easily avoided (also you're an easy target with your hands over
your head and your feet set).  So juggy doesn't hit as hard as he could because
he's a slow brawler, thus he likes to throw things and knock down buildings on
people.  So iceman's armor, plus his rolling, plus juggy's clumsiness SUPPOSEDLY
saves him.

To answer the question to why these guys don't fly backward when the punch...they usually set their feet into the ground and lean forward.  I just hope they don't fight indoors at upper levels--they might crash through the floor.  Also, anyone who has taken any karate knows that when you punch with one hand, you pull back with the other, thus conserving momentum.  So they could also use this.  Basically, if one of these guys trained like Psylock, they would be devastating,
but that's Marvel....