HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cas@bjerknes.colorado.edu (Cathy Smith)
Subject: Re: Maples are yellow in Denver
Keywords: autumn trees color early?
Organization: NOAA Climate Research Division
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:37:19 GMT

In article <7880@public.BTR.COM> jamesf@public.BTR.COM (James G. Franklin  jamesf@btr.com) writes:
>In article <26320@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM> wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson) writes:
>>
>>I don't know if this is early or not. I think it is. I don't remember
>>any trees yellowing this early. Usually it starts after Labor Day.
>
>My sister, on Long Island, NY, says some trees are starting to turn 
>already. A bit bizarre, I think.

I noticed tress turning near Seattle in early August (a bit unusual, I
believe).  Seattle, unlike most of the rest of the country was
on the warm side this summer so I doubt temperature would explain it.
I have heard that trees mainly turn based on light.  Does anyone know
if Mt. Pinatubo might be responsible?

Cathy Smith 
cas@noaacrd.colorado.edu



-- 
cas@noaacrd.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: walker@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Scott Walker)
Subject: Farmer's Almanac and Andrew
Organization: DuPont Central Research & Development
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 02:37:24 GMT

I was paging through the 1992 Farmer's Almanac tonight and decided to see
what it said in it's forecast for Florida for August.  Sure enough:
"...while in August a possible hurricane could bring an extra 3 inches of
rain, or more, to the south."  How's that for hitting it right on the 
button?  Ok, so later they specifically mention August 30th and 31 for
the hurricane dates, but this is the only one they predicted and they
were pretty close.

Just lucky or do they know something we don't?

******************************************************
Scott C. Walker
walkersc@esvax.dnet.dupont.com

+++The few opinions I express are not the opinions of my employer.
"What's settled down?  Settled down is you get married and then you buy a
house.  You can get a wood house, a plaster house or a stucco house.  
Oh, how you can get stucco!"  - David Lee Roth, on Rockline
******************************************************
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.environment
From: steved@netcom.com (Steven Deterling)
Subject: Re: Atmospheric energy levels (was Re: Another hurricane-killing idea)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 22:09:58 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

I recall some friends back at Texas A&M doing a senior project on how to
use really big lasers in orbit around the Earth to heat sectors of the 
atmosphere or otherwise alter the atmosphere to stop hurricanes.  I imagine
that if you have the capabilities to operate on this scale that you can do
more than just stop hurricanes; you can most likely change conditions in a
variety of ways in a variety of places (i.e. cause thunderstorms in the 
Pacific Northwest, etc.)

But before we go rearranging the atmosphere, shouldn't we ask ourselves if it's
actually wise to do such a thing?  After all, we aren't experts on the 
environment, and there are probably many things we don't know about hurricanes
and related phenomena.  As is true with some forest fires, even hurricanes
may have their place in our ecosystem.  Stopping one may limit damage on one
part of the Earth, but cause even large destruction through an unknown
reaction at some other location on the Earth.  

And once we gain the power to control the climate, what controls will we have
to ensure that political powers don't use weather control to achieve
political/military/ goals (ok Saddam - pull out of Kuwait or it will never
rain in Iraq again!).

Steve
steved@netcom.com
From: kjun@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu (Pat Fitzpatrick)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Anti-Hurricane in the North Atlantic?
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:19:41 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University -- Atmos Sci

In article <tlm1.714848863@Ra.MsState.Edu> tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula) writes:
> I noticed 
>that in the North Atlantic there was another large spiral of clouds.  This
>spiral had a diameter many (10?) times larger than Andrew, but was spinning
>in the opposite (clockwise) direction.  Heck, it even had a visible eye in
>the center.  The weather-person must have noticed that my attention had
>drifted over to this new, more impressive storm and quickly said that the
>North Atlantic disturbance was non-tropical in nature and nothing to worry
>about.

It's a TUTT (tropical upper-tropospheric trough) which has become quite
vigorous, and has even burrowed down to the lower troposphere. It is not
tropical in nature, and has mid-latitude charcteristics such as being
cold-cored (a hurricane is warm-core) and being baroclinic (a hurricane
is essentially barotropic). By baroclinic, we mean a sheared environment
with temperature contrast. A strictly barotropic atmosphere has no
temperature contrast with no wind shear.

However, on occasion these TUTT cells do transform themselves into a
tropical system. This is most common in the Pacific, but does (and, in
fact, happened twice last year, I believe) happen occasionally in the
Atlantic. Hence, it does bear watching.......

As for the eye, I haven't seen today's satellite photo, but I don't recall
seeing one. TUTT's rarely have an eye.

Pat Fitzpatrick
From: evans@herschel.atmos.colostate.edu (Frank Evans)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Killing hurricanes - try ice
Summary: Icebergs to Florida
Date: 28 Aug 92 02:48:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Atmospheric Science Dept., Colorado State University

How about using ice instead of fire to kill hurricanes?  The
development and maintenance of hurricanes is very sensitive to the sea
surface  temperature.  Hurricanes require a surface temperature greater
than about 27 degrees C to form.  The primary energy source for a
hurricane is the latent heat release generated by the conversion of
moist air evaporated from the ocean into precipitation.  The rate of
evaporation is related to the surface wind speed and the saturation
vapor pressure of water.  The latter is very strongly dependent
(exponentially) on temperature, and that is why hurricanes quickly die
when they move over cool water.  

So the scenerio is to cool the water under the hurricane and in its
path. The only semi-feasible way is to use icebergs.  I imagine towing
a large iceberg, wrapped in a plastic liner to prevent excessive
melting, to a convenient spot (Florida) in spring.  It would then be
insulated and cutup into more than 100 chunks.  As the hurricane
approaches on its track so well predicted by our friends in Corral
Gables ;-), an armada of lightening fast tugboats pulls the iceberg
pieces out to the hurricane.  As the boats move through the desired
location explosive charges blow off chunks of ice, hopefully in small
pieces which can melt in time.  The cooled water will stay near the
surface of the ocean because it is fresher and thus less dense.  To
cool a 100 km square area to 10 meters depth by 10 degrees C, requires
only a 10 km square by 100 m initial iceberg.  Adjust iceberg size for
desired cooled area. Note, that this scheme wouldn't upset global heat
tranfer because cold to tropics is as good as heat to the poles.

With apologies to tropical meteorologists (I do radiation :-),

Frank Evans  Atmospheric Science Dept.  Colorado State University
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: jmasters@engin.umich.edu (Jeffrey Mason Masters)
Subject: Re: Exploiting instability (was Re: Atmospheric energy levels)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 15:59:25 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

>>In a previous article, packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) wrote:
>>
>>>-- given the folks who said they would
>>>sacrifice their firstborn or signifcant body parts to be able to
>>>fly into a hurricane.
>>
>>It's really not that exciting.
>>

  Well, I've flown into hurricanes, too, and some with Sim (who says it's not
that exciting). That can be very true--especially on the night flights at
high altitude where you never get to see anything. However, I have been on at
least 5 filghts into hurricanes that were *very* exiciting--the sight of the
eye opening up around you, with blue sky above, roiling waves below, and
churning clouds surrounding you is truly awe-inspiring. As for excitement,
my penetrations of Hugo and Gilbert beat any experiences I've had in this
lifetime. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jeff Masters  (jmasters@madlab.sprl.umich.edu)
 Atmospheric, Oceanic, and Space Sciences
 University of Michigan                         //       Home of the         \\
                                                \\ "The Weather Underground" //
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Another hurricane-killing idea
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:18:26 GMT
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada

Shailendra Save writes
>   Say, how about a nuclear detonation which would create  
a
> massive explosion and disturb the air enough to break the
> hurricane?  I think that it is not necessary to create a 
> low pressure area, a high pressure area would do just as  
well.
> All you would need to do is to break the swirl of the  
hurricane.
> 

I don't think it would have an effect. Angular momemtum is  
a conserved quantity. The coupling with the surface is not  
strong.  Note that even when they drift over cold water  
which no longer is pumping thermal energy into them, the  
structure of the storm persists for quite a while.


As a crude model visulize a layer of marbles in the bottom  
of a WOK.  Now stir briskly until the marbles moveing fast  
enough that you can see the bottom of the wok.  Now cause  
the marble hurricane to collapse by putting in 1 drop of  
water.
From: stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: pulsating hurricane
Date: 26 Aug 92 03:55:06 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science

In article <1992Aug25.180900.28730@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>It is interesting to see how Andrew expands and contracts in size over time
>as it gains and loses energy over land.  I am looking at a 65 frame animation
>starting from Saturday.

expands and contracts... what does, the total storm size or the eye?

Andrew has briefly had a concentric eyewall structure as an inner spiral band
moves inward, the eyewall moves inward and collapse, the inner spiral band
becomes the new eyewall and continues moving inward. During the time of eyewall
collapse, the eye region is largest and the pressure largest and peak winds
weakest, because the pattern away from the eye is not much changed but the
peak winds of course occur near the eyewall, so the increase on approach to
the center continues further inward when the eye is smaller. What causes the
inward propagation, concentric walls, collapse of one, etc. and the pressure
to change by a large amount as a result I don't know and I think is generally
not known yet. Perhaps a NHC reader can update us on current ideas about this.

Hurricanes and other convective systems tend to increase in size at night
and shrink during the day because the expanding anvil radiatively destabilizes
and traps gravity waves at night. (By convective systems, I mean convection
which has organized itself, not diurnal convection over land along an
otherwise existing convergence zone). This has been seen in model simulations
of hurricanes and mid-latitude convective systems. The outward propagating
trapped gravity waves trigger new convection which does not couple with the
wave, and as the wave continues to propagate outward, yet another band is
created. Of course all the details including the ability of the wave to
trigger new convection depends on environmental conditions, and the 
typical hurricane conditions are ideal for this kind of mechanism to operate in.

Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: gopher@yar.cs.wisc.edu (Chris Bovitz)
Subject: Re: Atlantic hurricane names
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:34:48 GMT

In article <BtK0CG.EFL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks) writes:
>Here's the six-year list of names for Atlantic hurricanes.  Names
>are agreed upon by nations involved during international meetings
>of the World Meterological Organization.  The National Hurricane
>Center names any tropical disturbance that reaches tropical 
>storm status.  (Sorry for my earlier mistake about 1986 Andrew.)

[list deleted]

Does someone have or know where I can find the lists of hurricane
names for the other ocean basins?

Thanks.

Chris



-- 
Chris Bovitz              |    "I demand that you shoot me now!"
Department of Meteorology |    
Univ of Wisc - Madison    |       -- Daffy Duck
moonunit@meteor.wisc.edu  |
From: ab257@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Don  Bergquist)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: SEISMIC ACTIVITY IN OHIO ON 08/26/92?
Date: 3 Sep 1992 19:15:46 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


Do any readers have any information on any seismic activity in Northeasterrn Ohio on the night of August 26, 1992 (Wednesday)?
A positive assurance of no seismic activity is an approptiate 
reply, as is specific information on activity at around
10:40 p.m EST (not daylight time).   Reply via E-mail to:
    ab257@cleveland.Freenet.edu
From: foley@meteor.wisc.edu (Jonathan Foley)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Eye of the Hurricane
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:26:30 GMT
Reply-To: foley@meteor.wisc.edu
Organization: Center for Climatic Research, Univ. Wisconsin

In article 16374657@enh.nist.gov, aberson@enh.nist.gov () writes:
:In a previous article, calvins@suzies.Eng.Sun.COM (Christopher Klein) wrote:
:>In article <1992Aug25.174335.3563@eplrx7.es.duPont.com> walker@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Scott Walker) writes:
:>>The latest report puts the eye of Andrew at about 30nm wide.  I know that
:>>they eye of a hurricane is supposed to be relatively calm.  What do the 
:> 
:>Wow!  30nm?  That's one tight eye!
:
:Nope.  Pretty average.  It was 10nm across at its strongest.  Hugo's
:was about that size also out in the Atlantic.
:

I think you missed the joke!  30nm is 30 _NANOmeters_ - that is 10**-9 m.
Pretty darn small!  This is about the size of an individual molecule, not
the size of the eye of a hurricane.

Cheers,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Jon Foley                                    | email:  foley@meteor.wisc.edu |
Center for Climatic Research and              -------------------------------  
Department of Atmospheric & Oceanic Sciences                                 |
University of Wisconsin               ---------------------------------------
1225 West Dayton Street              | These views are my own and do reflect |
Madison, WI  53706 - United States   | those of the University of Wisconsin  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: moe@rainier.lib.washington.edu (Joe Shippert)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Could a hurricane be destroyed?
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:45:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington Libraries, Seattle

In article <10429@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) writes:
>
>In the 50's[?] and the 60's, _Operation Storm Fury_ was being conducted.
>It was a field experiment in seeding hurricanes (did they also seed 
>potential storms?). It was killed due to politics - no one wanted to
>take the blame if something went wrong and the storm increased it's
>intensity *after* it was seeded.
>
>Alternate regions where considered (eastern Pacific hurricanes and
>western Pacific typhoons) but where also politcially unpalatable.
>

One of my proffessors told me about this awhile ago. Apparently they were
trying to get people to believe that seeding worked and were really bugging
the government for support in the research. A potential storm was seeded
and, in the words of my professor, it was a gollywhopper. The seeders then 
had to appear in court and say, "well, no, we really don't know how well 
it works" and basicly try to save their butts. 



-- 
==============================================================================
moe@u.washington.edu
If you can't talk about it, point to it.
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: jmasters@engin.umich.edu (Jeffrey Mason Masters)
Subject: Re: particle drift
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 12:28:34 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: sci

   There are a number of air parcel trajectory programs written to trace back
the origin of an airmass. Typically, these programs trace the air back over
72 hours, with a horizontal error of several hunded kilometers. NCAR has a
version that traces trajectories along an isentropic surface; NOAA has one
that uses the mixed layer (surface to 1st inversion) or along a constant
pressure surface. We've used the NOAA model for over 10 years here at the
University of Michigan to track air pollution.

  My guess is that the enhanced levels of radioactivity the folks in the UK are
seeing when high acid rain events are observed is because coal contains a fair
amount of radioactive substances, so you are seeing the effects of coal burning,
not nuclear bomb tests.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jeff Masters  (jmasters@madlab.sprl.umich.edu)
 Atmospheric, Oceanic, and Space Sciences
 University of Michigan                         //   Ph.D. Candidate and     \\
                                                ||     Creator of the        ||
                                                \\ "The Weather Underground" //
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: orloff@surya9.cern.ch (Jean Orloff)
Subject: Meteo book advice for lost physicist?
Organization: CERN, European Research Center for Particle Physics
Distribution: sci
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:00:15 GMT


I started reading again about meteorology when I recently discovered
paragliding (WAOW!!!).

I would like to have a better QUANTITATIVE understanding of climatic
and micro-climatic phenomena (eg, the celebrated foehn effect,
frontogenesis, ascending currents, inversions etc...).

However, the books I have seen so far remain vague and unsatisfactory for a
physicist like me:
-phrases like "hot air rises" abund, but never is it said how fast,
 how much.
-sometimes I get numbers: "adiabatic rising of dry air yields a
 cooling of 1deg/100m" which I can compute, but I would like
 to see it done for me (after all this is just a hobby!).

In short, what I would like to find is a collection of understood
physical effects (or solved "pure problems") with relevance to meteorology.

If anybody saw a meteo book going in this direction, please tell me, I
don't want to write it myself (which I somehow already started)!

Thanks a lot!
Jean Orloff.
--
*************************************************************************
*	Jean Orloff		*	e-mail: ORLOFF@dxcern.cern.ch	*
*	TH-Division, CERN	*	phone:	(41-22) 767-3204	*
*	CH-1211 Geneva 23	*	fax:	(41-22) 782-3914	*
*************************************************************************
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: dave@gergo.tamu.edu (Dave Martin)
Subject: Hurricane Data (Position, etc.) via FTP?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Geochemical & Environmental Research Group, Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 01:18:00 GMT

The Sources...FAQ didn't answer this, so maybe someone out here could:
Is there an FTP site which contains the positional and storm strength
data for past hurricanes? How about at the least the tracking data for
Andrew prior to today?

Thanks in advance. 

 -                                                                     -
 - Dave Martin - Geochemical & Environmental Research Group, Texas A&M - 
 - DAVE@GERGA[GERGO,GERGI].TAMU.EDU - BROOKS@TAMVXOCN.BITNET - AOL:DBM -
 -                                                                     -
From: gasser@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Nathan Gasser ><>  )
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Need site for Mac Andrew animation source
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:38:14 GMT

Hello all,

I've created an animation loop of Hurricane Andrew, from
23 August through 27 August, IR images.  The source files
for this animation, from NIH Image, come to about 15Mb
uncompressed.  I can't store these 5 files (1 per day)
much longer.  If anyone knows of a site that would be
willing to have the files, please let me know soon.
If anyone wants the files for their own use, let me know.
Be advised that they are just over 15Mb total.

My finished animation is in QuickTime format, and is cropped
to just the Gulf region, over the same time period.  The
entire loop is just over 1Mb and should be available at
the sumex-aim.stanford.edu and mac.archive.umich.edu sites
shortly.  Look for a quicktime directory in each.

Nate.
--

Nathan Gasser       ><>         
gasser@eniac.seas.upenn.edu     
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: walker@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Scott Walker)
Subject: Eye of the Hurricane
Organization: DuPont Central Research & Development
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:43:35 GMT

The latest report puts the eye of Andrew at about 30nm wide.  I know that
they eye of a hurricane is supposed to be relatively calm.  What do the 
people on the ground see when the eye passes over head?  Blue sky?  Are
there birds and things flying around the inside?
   When a recon plane flies into the eye, does it push straight in at a
right angle?  Has there ever been a recon plane downed by a storm?  Has
anyone out there ever ridden on one of these death-wish missions?

My inquiring mind wants to know...
Thank you,
     Scott
******************************************************
Scott C. Walker
walkersc@esvax.dnet.dupont.com

+++The few opinions I express are not the opinions of my employer.
"What's settled down?  Settled down is you get married and then you buy a
house.  You can get a wood house, a plaster house or a stucco house.  
Oh, how you can get stucco!"  - David Lee Roth, on Rockline
******************************************************
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: mmoore@cs.ulowell.edu (Michael P. Moore)
Subject: Weather Gifs are not real Gif Files
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 01:28:08 GMT

I just tried to view the CVIS.GIF file from vmd.cso.uiuc.edu on my Amiga's
gif viewer and it told me that it wasn't a .gif file format.  Are the weather
gifs of some other format and just get the extention .gif and if they are
another graphics format, then what format is it.  

Thanks In Advance
Mike Moore


-- 
Send E-mail to             |  "Ah Don't See No Points on Yo Ears, boy" 
			   |   Dr. McCoy-Encounter At Farpoint
MOOREMI@WOODS.ULOWELL.EDU  |  "Captain, I Must Protest. I am NOT a merry man"
MMOORE@CS.ULOWELL.EDU      |   Lt. Worf- Q-Pid
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: harris@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov (Mitch Harris)
Subject: Hurricanes traveling west?
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:52:14 GMT

First let me say I have nothing to do with meteorology, am just a nurse,
but I *love* stormy weather! Now, there have been many postins about why
hurricanes travel west, but here's what I want to know: in some books
I've read on hurricanes, there's always pictures of really loopy
hurricane tracks, where they go backwards, loop around ,etc. How can
they go backwards? And if they travel up the Atlantic towards Europe,
why doesn't the colder water dissapate them sooner?

         ......posted for the missus (Beverly)
--
Mitch Harris                           |  New Technology Inc.
(205)-544-2846                         |  700 Boulevard South, #401
drvax3!harris@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov    |  Huntsville, AL  35802