HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ccziec@vax.nott.ac.uk (Stuart Pearce's left foot)
Subject: Cloughie for England Manager?
Reply-To: ccziec@vax.nott.ac.uk (Stuart Pearce's left foot)
Organization: University of Nottingham, UK
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 11:46:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.000239.15841@bcrka451.bnr.ca>, (Richard Moores) writes:
>For my money, Cloughie has to be given a chance. The man is a PROVEN winner
>(Taylor is not), with a great track record for building good footballing
>TEAMS, and getting the very best out of the talents at his disposable. I
>think the time has come to silence the "Clough In" chants of the past 10+
>years and install him as manager. Then we can all find out if they were
>warranted.
>
>My 2p worth.
>
>Richard Moores - Koppite In Exile    
>Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada.
>FAX:(613) 763-7283 Phone:(613) 763-4687 
>My opinions, not BNR's    

I don't think Cloughie would make a good national manager (I don't think
Taylor does either:-) My logic behind this is that Brian's greatest skill
in Football management is to motivate players who many would consider
'lesser' to a greater level of performance. The only time he has managed
a squad of internationals was at Leeds which didn't last long. His record
at Forest with bigger name players (ie biger transfer fees) is generally
poor compared to the bargain buys. Take Gary Birtles & Roy Keane for
examples of bargains (Birtles cost 2,000 and went to Man U for a million,
Keane cost 15,000 and is reputedly worth 5m now) Then take Justin Fashnu
& Ian Wallace as the expensive flops, both cost a million and went
for bugger all. Generally IMHO, international, bigger name players find 
Cloughies style of management ebrasive and unacceptable at times, and he
may have more difficulty exerting his discipline on players he only sees
5 or 6 times a year.

However having said all this if Cloughie was offered the job (the dozy
sods at Lancaster Gate would never have the bottle to do this anyway)
there would be a couple of good points to come out it. 
1. Anyone who had served a jail sentence would never wear an England
shirt again.
2. The after match interviews would be a lot more interesting (assuming
Brian had managed to keep the alcolhol consumption below a bottle)

Dream all you like, but the FA would never give the job to someone who
speaks his mind, turns up for presentations incapable of standing up,
and only turns up for work one day a week. Don't get me wrong, I would
love to see him as the national manager, despite the fact he is my teams
manager, but its too late now, he should have had it 10-15 years ago.

Cheers - Ian

     /~~^~~\      Nottingham Forest supporter through all times
   /~~\   /~~\
 /~~\       /~~\  You guys are so unhip its a wonder your bums don't fall
 (             )  off - Zaphod Beeblebrox (Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy)
  (____/ \____)   
       | |        Forest mailing list:  nffc-request@uk.ac.nott.ccc.vme
 /----\| |/----\  
 /----\___/----\  email: Ian_Copping@uk.ac.nottingham.ccc.vme
 /----\___/----\  
   F O R E S T    You never close your eyes any more....
From: mikel@lsil.com (Michael Lynch)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Internationals
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:45:52 GMT
Reply-To: mikel@lsil.com
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation


England		4-0	Turkey
(Gazza scored twice)
Spain		0-0	Republic of Ireland
Belgium		2-0	Wales
Scotalnd	0-0	Italy
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: paull@plasma.co.uk (Paul Lee)
Subject: Re: BBC Sports Coverage (was Re: Just laug
Reply-To: paull@plasma.co.uk
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:49:01 GMT

In article 1MJ@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk, dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:
>paull@plasma.co.uk (Paul Lee) writes:
>
>>In article 9211161724@thor.cf.ac.uk, scogpw@thor.cf.ac.uk (Gordon Walker) writes:
>
>[Long article I've already responded to under my nom de plume Rab]
>
>>That was one of the point's I made earlier today - exactly it. I'm glad someone
>>agrees. I certainly go along with all of this. It's up to the Scot's to show
>>their own sport and teams on their TV.
>
>...and who shall be resposible for showing the networked sports programs to
>the whole of Britain?  England?
>That's what we appear to have at the moment.
>
>Dave
>
>-- 


Yes because what the majority of Britain wants is English Premier football, and not
curling, or Scottish tiddlywinks. 

I've already put forward a reason why the BBC may ignore Scotland related to
viewing figures. Where are your arguements with that?

The regional TV stations are there to cater for more localised minority sports.
If you don't like what you see don't watch it, and go to the events yourself!!
You can't moan at the BBC for following the majority, they have to compete. 
Especially when the Scottish TV stations don't appear to show their own national
sports. Surely they should be pushing Scottish Football at the "EBC". Remeber that
channel 4 shows Italian football, and not Scottish. This must be because either
no one cares less about Scottish football and is more interested with Italian, or
because to screen Italian football is cheaper. Maybe the Scottish FA are pricing
themselves out like the English FA nearly did.


---


		Cheers,
			Paul Lee (Hoppy)


			Meiko Scientific Ltd.

			Email: paull@meiko.com

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: se02@claudius.nextlab.cs.qub.ac.uk (Ian Armstrong)
Subject: WC Qualifier : N.Ireland - Denmark
Organization: University of Oulu
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:07:29 GMT




Information on the N.Ireland - Denmark game in Belfast on Wed. 18th Nov.



The No. 1 goalkeeper for N.ireland,Tommy Wright is out of the match after  
tearing muscles in his thigh.As a result, Hull City's reserve keeper, Alan  
Fettis, is playing in goal.So, a bit of a conrast between the two goalies  
-  Peter Schmeichal and Alan Fettis.Can the N.Ireland crowd prove to be  
the incentive for their developing team?


	The last meeting of these two teams was in the qualification round  
of the 1992 European Championship :

	In Denmark   : Denmark 2 : 1 N.Ireland
	In N.Ireland : N.Ireland 1 : 1 Denmark


	A close match seems to be on the cards.

	The probable N.Ireland team is :

			Fettis		(Hull City)
			Worthington	(Sheffield Wednesday)
			Fleming		(Barnsley)
			Taggart		(Barnsley)
			McDonald	(Q.P.R.)
			Donaghy		(Chelsea)
			Magilton	(Oxford United)
			Wilson		(Notts County)
			Clarke		(Bournemouth)
			Gray		(Luton Town)
			Hughes		(Strasbourg)



		COME ON N.IRELAND!!!!!!!


			Cheers

				Ian.
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 12:15:30 IST
From: Anthony Waller <P85014@BARILVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Israeli League, Round 10

Israeli League,  Round 10  November 13-14
                                                Att
Tzafririm Holon     3   Hapoel Petah-Tikva  1    1500
Maccabi Haifa       0   Maccabi Tel-Aviv    0   17000
Hapoel Tel-Aviv     1   Hapoel Haifa        1    4000
Betar Jerusalem     2   Bnei Yehuda         1   12000
Betar Tel-Aviv      3   Maccabi Petah-Tikva 0    1500
Maccabi Netanya     0   Hapoel Be'er-Sheva  2    1500


League Table

Betar Jerusalem      7 1 2 18-13  22
Maccabi Tel-Aviv     5 3 2 26-13  18
Maccabi Haifa        5 3 2 22-15  18
Bnei-Yehuda          5 2 3 19-16  17
Maccabi Petah-Tikva  4 3 3 19-17  15
Hapoel Be'er-Sheva   4 3 3 15-14  15
Hapoel Tel-Aviv      4 2 4 15-18  14
Tzafririm Holon      3 2 5 16-19  11
Hapoel Haifa         2 4 4  9-14  10
Betar Tel-Aviv       3 1 6 13-19  10
Maccabi Netanya      2 3 5 10-19   9
Hapoel Petah-Tikva   2 1 7 15-20   7

-------
Anthony Waller             BITNET:    P85014@BARILVM.BITNET
Bar-Ilan University        INTERNET:  P85014@vm.biu.ac.il
Israel.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer,soc.culture.polish
From: michal@vsnmc1.cern.ch (Michal Szleper)
Subject: Polska liga, round 16
Summary: Wyniki 16. kolejki
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, Geneva
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:22:59 GMT


Round 16 of Polish league (November 14th & 15th)
================================================

1) LECH POZNAN            - HUTNIK KRAKOW           7:1
   '27 Brze,czek            '43 Sermak
   '41 Rzemien
   '63 Skrzypczak
   '69 Araszkiewicz
   '71 Moskal
   '74 Moskal
   '89 Moskal

2) L~KS L~ODZ             - ZAGL~E,BIE LUBIN        2:1
   '20 Kaczowka             '19 Stachurski
   '65 Kaczowka

3) SIARKA TARNOBRZEG      - JAGIELLONIA BIAL~YSTOK  2:0
   '49 Klich
   '78 Kucharski

4) GKS KATOWICE           - WIDZEW L~ODZ            1:3  :-)
   '63 Szewczyk (pk)        '31 Czerwiec
                            '41 Mia,szkiewicz
                            '69 Mia,szkiewicz

5) POGON SZCZECIN         - LEGIA WARSZAWA          1:1
   '04 Szubert              '64 Sliwowski

6) SZOMBIERKI BYTOM       - RUCH CHORZOW            0:4
                            '26 Szewczyk
                            '42 Fornalak
                            '76 Gilewicz
                            '86 Szewczyk

7) ZAWISZA BYDGOSZCZ      - STAL MIELEC             1:3
   '73 Pasieka              '15 Bociek
                            '30 Czyrek
                            '92 Barnak

8) GORNIK ZABRZE          - SLA,SK WROCL~AW         3:2
   '22 Cygan                '63 Basov
   '42 Cygan                '79 Mandziejewicz
   '89 Cygan

9) WISL~A KRAKOW          - OLIMPIA POZNAN          1:0
   '69 Janik


TABLE
=====
    Team          Points  Goals
------------------------------------
 1. L~KS           26-6   30:14
 2. Lech           25-7   39:9
 3. Widzew         25-7   34:17
 4. Ruch           23-9   34:13
 5. Legia          22-10  26:15
 6. Stal           20-12  22:14
 7. Zagl~e,bie     17-15  28:18
 8. Katowice       17-15  23:16
 9. Wisl~a         15-17  25:21
10. Gornik         15-17  17:20
11. Pogon          15-17  13:20
12. Siarka         14-18  19:24
13. Szombierki     14-18  20:26
14. Hutnik         11-21  20:29
15. Zawisza         9-23  17:37
16. Olimpia         8-24  13:32
17. Sla,sk          8-24  13:41
18. Jagiellonia     4-28  16:43

Cheers.

P.S. Don't blame me for the delay.  Blame the CERN distributor
of Gazeta Wyborcza who always does it late.  Or thank him that
he does it at all.

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
  Michal~ Szleper                            e-mail: michal@vsnmc1.cern.ch
  CERN - PPE Division                                                     
  CH-1211 Geneve 23 ; Bat.892                "All you need is love, love, 
  tel. (22) 767-64-01                         Love is all you need..."       
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: keith@megadata.mega.oz.au (Keith Frudd)
Subject: Re: Barnsley FC - Is anybody out there?
Organization: Megadata P/L, North Ryde, Sydney, Aust.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 05:19:16 GMT

wj_wigna@csd.uwe.ac.uk (Ebeneezer Goode) writes:
> 
> Does anybody out there support Barnsley except for me? Just wondering!
> 

Yes, there is at least one other Barnsley supporter out here.

I have been supporting Barnsley for forty years, ever since my
father took me, aged four, on a freezing cold day to stand on
the drafty terraces to watch them lose.  Somewhat warmer and
many years and kilometres from Oakwell, Barnsley's home ground,
I still support Barnsley, and look for their result before any
others in the Monday newspaper.

I can see all you Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool fans
scratching your heads and asking "Why Barnsley?", and people
elsewhere asking "Who are Barnsley?".  Believe me, once you have
supported one club for a long time, you maintain that support for
the rest of your life, even though though you may take some
interest in other, more successful, clubs.

I read r.s.s. and wonder at the isolation of many of the supporters
of these successful clubs.  Other clubs do exist.  Smaller clubs
often provide talented players for the larger clubs to tempt.  For
those who don't know, it was Barnsley who first brought Danny 
Blanchflower to English football before he went on to Aston Villa and
Tottenham Hotspur.  Barnsley also introduced Tommy Taylor to
English football.  He was one of the best English produced centre
forwards and went on to play for Manchester United.  Tragically, he
was killed in the Munich air crash.

And for all of you who think that Barnsley have never made it, they
won the F.A. Cup in 1912, after having lost in the final in 1910.
They hold the unenviable record of being the only club to have won
the F.A. Cup and never to have been in the top division.

Come on, Barnsley.  Maybe we can get rid of that record yet.

			Regards
				Keith Frudd

				Sydney, Australia
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: cmorris@Ingres.COM (Colin Morris)
Subject: Penalty shootout queries
Reply-To: cmorris@Ingres.COM (Colin Morris)
Organization: Ingres, an Ask Company, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:02:47 GMT

I have a couple of queries abou the procedures for the "tie-breaking
procedure" aka penalty-shootout.

1. Is the first-round order for the list of penalty takers
pre-determined? ie does the referee have to have a list of the takers
prior to the start of the shootout, or are the teams free to choose
who they like on each kick (subject to each kicker being different
etc)?

2. In the '86 QF between France and Brasil, the penalty kick of
Belloni (sp?) was hotly contested because, after hitting the post, the
ball rebounded away from the goal, hit the back of the 'keeper and
went in the net. The goal was given but the Brasilians contested it on
the grounds that the ball was dead as soon as it bounced away from the
goal. I believe FIFA issued a clarification regarding this kind of
situation. What was the clarification? Should such a kick count as a
goal? 

--
Colin Morris    Ingres, an ASK Group company     cmorris@ws2s.ingres.com

"It's never too late to hate Luton Town" -- Danny Baker
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: jwk@sequent.com (John "Just Say Noe" Kramer)
Subject: Re: "Fact & Fiction about US soccer"-suggestions?
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 18:47:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.123723.1794@abo.fi> MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
>> this due to defensive give-aways or better attacking goals?
>
>Pure BS! Sure, you can't stop *all* forms of negative soccer just by changing
>the laws but we can do a lot better than the current rules. As someone pointed

You're welcome to your opinion. To me the jury is still out on the back
pass (actually, 'no hands keeper'). More goals is not necessarily better
quality overall.

>---
>Can you give any rational reason why having a subjective, error-prone(sp) 
>referee determining how much time to add is "better" than using an 100% 
>objective timekeeper that always gets it right?! If it does not cause any

Ditto. It may be conservative but it's worked reasonably well for 100 years
or so with few complaints. Call you paranoid (you probably will) but this
is the slippery slope to cutting the game into quarters (or more) for
American TV.

>Granted, finding a way to persuade 22 cowards to play an entertaining game of
>soccer is very difficult. But the problem is more that the current rules are
>not protecting the teams and players who do want to give their best. We need
>stricter enforcement of the existing rules that are supposed to prevent

What leagues have you been watching over the years? I want to make a point
not to watch them if they're full of cowards. The number of good games
I see far exceed the bad ones. I just want footballers to resolve this
themselves without minding bending rules coined by well intentioned amateurs.
You can't turn average players into Pele by changing the rules, so why
bother?

Have a nice day.
From: phucn@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Miss D A Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Leeds-you have a rubbish pitch!!
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:32:21 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk


   Ok,so the might GOONERS lost at Leeds...but the fact is,the pitch was a 
disgrace....NO match should have been allowed on it.And,I notice you had
to injure our goalie before you won!

Wait till you go to Highbury...you will get a welcoming which you won't
forget in a hurry!!!!!

    Debs

PS Does anyone know when we are playing Derby in the cup? (Dave,Darren??)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: altizer@figaro (Robert Altizer)
Subject: Re: offsides question on goal kick
Reply-To: altizer@chdasic.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola SPS
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:51:50 GMT

In article Kv0@encore.com, kschnitz@encore.com (Kevin Schnitzius) writes:
>A linesman in our game the other day told me that a team could NOT
>be offsides on a goal kick.  I was under the impression that you
>could be offsides on any kick, and a goal kick is a direct kick, if
>I remember correctly.  About half our team thought one way and about
>half the other way.  Does any one out there know the specific FIFA
>rule regarding this play and when it was changed if it was, in fact,
>changed?
>
>Thanks,
>--
>Kevin Schnitzius
>kschnitzius@encore.com

The linesman was correct.

A player who receives the ball directly (i.e., not touched by anybody 
else) from a throw in, goal kick, or corner kick, even though in an off-
side position, is not penalized (see Lax XI).  A goal kick is not a
direct free kick, it's a restart from touch (see Law XVI).  You cannot
score a goal directly (i.e., without the ball touching another player)
from a goal kick.

Lax XI was recently amended to drop "dropped by the referee" from the list
of restarts on which a player is not penalized for being off-side.

Regards, 
Bob

PS - Please note that it's "off-side", not "offsides" - don't put on that
     final "s" and you'll be recognized as a more knowledgable player. 

---
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
#      Robert Altizer - Motorola ASIC Software Quality Assurance       #
#  1300 North Alma School Road, M/S CH240, Chandler AZ 85224-8517 USA  #
#             Voice: (602) 821-4249 -- FAX: (602) 821-4167             #
# Internet: altizer@chdasic.sps.mot.com -- X.400: R10908@email.mot.com #
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
#   Nature has neither kernel nor shell, she is everything at once.    #
#                                   -- Goethe                          #
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: dsamm@boi.hp.com (Dan Sammartino)
Subject: Re: Need a good team name for a co-rec soccer team
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:45:23 GMT

We have a coed team in our league called the "Gumbys" after 
that terrific cartoon character.
From: Tricky <mfd91@ecs.soton.ac.uk >
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: NEWS ABOUT LINEKER
Date: 17 Nov 92 12:52:01 GMT
Originator: mfd91@davinci


  Lineker is not playing in Japan yet , the season there has been
delayed until March for some reason . At the moment he is still in
England , where he appears on TV frequently as football pundit . He
also has his own radio show once a week , it provides commentary on
important games and he links together the reporters at the various
grounds . He isn't a great radio presenter but he gets by , he is also
too nice to critise anybody .

Mike
-- 

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer,news.groups
From: rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen)
Subject: Re: rec.sport.soccer.referee
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Federation Internationale de Football Association
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 21:59:01 GMT

cjones@dbaccess.com (Carl Jones) writes:

>People, a "call for a vote" has not been made!!
>However, so as not to hold up progress, I will be
>the keeper of the registered votes.
>Please send me mail (cjones@dbaccess.com).
>You need to indicate YES/NO specifically to the 
>creation of the group "rec.sport.soccer.referee" 
>(which could be the subject of the mail or 
>in the body of the text).
>Remember to tell your fellow referees to vote;
>we need 100 more YES votes than NO 
>(which means at least 100 yes votes to begin with!).

A vote is not official before the call for votes has been
posted to news.announce.newgroups, and we are yet still 
in the discussion fase. 

Followups directed to news.groups where such discussion belongs.
-- 
Jesper Lauridsen      |  Bayern Mu"nchen - 12xChampions, 8xCup Winner,
rorschak@daimi.aau.dk |                    3xEC1 and 1xEC2 Winner
                    We'll be back
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: halchuk@seismo.emr.ca (Steve Halchuk)
Subject: Plagiarism and Belgium's goals (was Re: World Cup Qualifier Results)
Reply-To: halchuk@seismo.emr.ca
Organization: Dept. of Energy, Mines & Resources, Canada
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:20:43 GMT

dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:

>Thank you very much for plagerising my posting Harin.

I'm a little confused as to the incorrect goals tally claim for Belgium.
According to my "independently compiled" statistics :) Group 4 presently
looks like this:

GROUP 4
                    Played  Won  Drew  Lost   For  Against  Points
 BELGIUM               5     5     0     0      9      1      10      
 ROMANIA               4     2     1     1     13      3       5     
 WALES                 4     2     0     2      8      7       4     
 CZECHOSLOVAKIA        3     1     1     1      6      3       3     
 CYPRUS                3     1     0     2      2      2       2
 FAROE ISLANDS         5     0     0     5      0     22       0

  22/04/92 Belgium        1    Cyprus    0
  06/05/92 Romania        7    Faroe Is. 0
  20/05/92 Romania        5    Wales     1
  03/06/92 Faroe Is.      0    Belgium   3
  17/06/92 Faroe Is.      0    Cyprus    2
  02/09/92 Czechoslovakia 1    Belgium   2
  09/09/92 Wales          6    Faroe Is. 0
  23/09/92 Czechoslovakia 4    Faroe Is. 0
  14/10/92 Belgium        1    Romania   0
  14/10/92 Cyprus         0    Wales     1   
  14/11/92 Romania        1    Czechoslovakia 1 
  18/11/92 Wales          0    Belgium   2
        
If we add up the goals for Belgium we come up with (1 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 2) = 9
If we add up the goals against Belgium we come up with (0 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0) = 1

Are my figures incorrect? Belgium has played 5, won 5, scored 9, allowed 1.
I have seen posts by Harin (and several others) dating back several months
with compiled World Cup tables. I myself have tables for all of the qualifying
groups which I don't bother to post since it is handled so well by others
in this group. These tables are invaluable to my thirst for soccer news and 
if mistakes are made, they are usually corrected by other enthusiasts on the
net. The accusations of plagiarism are neither warranted nor accurate IMHO.
If my figures are incorrect, you may flame me without mercy but rest assured
that I (and probably others in this group) compiled these stats independently. 

Enough with the admonishments...back to the subject of this group. 
Congratulations to the Belgians on being one of the first countries to (almost) 
make it to the World Cup. Their lead is almost insurmountable. Having chosen
Romania in a local soccer pool, I hope that they are able to improve their
less than stellar performances of late and eventually take one of the top spots.
May they thrash Cyprus on November 29 as bad as they did Wales and the Faroes in 
their first two clashes!

Cheers,

Stephen
---
 +============+     | S. Halchuk, halchuk@seismo.emr.ca
 |  o \0\     |}    |"I can understand why Stranraer lies so lowly ...
 |      \     | }   | they could save a lot of points by signing Hib's
 |      \\    |  }  | goalie" :-) The Proclaimers
Organisation: European Space Technology Centre (E.S.T.E.C)
Date: Thursday, 19 Nov 1992 08:40:59 CET
From: Sean Clarke <SCLARKE@ESTEC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: CSKA "home" games


The temperature in Moscow is at the moment something like -5 degrees,
and can drop to around -30 occasionally - far too cold for football
The reason Scandinavian countries do not have this problem is that
no team gets past the first round :-)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer