HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Subject: Re: Islamic World News and False Claims.
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:34:31 GMT

It might not be very relevant to what we have here. There is an interesting
thing I observed when I went to take SAT at the American School, Karachi. A
couple of guys whom I knew from Habib Public School were there too. At least
about one of them I am 100% sure that he was settled in Karachi because he
was my class-fellow for three years... for the next three years we were at
different schools. I also believe that he was in Habib Public School since
much before. 

On the day of the test, I was really surprised to see that both these guys
showed Indian passports as identification documents. So did at least a few
other students... Is it possible to have both Pakistani and Indian 
nationality at the same time?

Meanwhile, a family I know in Halifax, with relatives both in India and
Pakistan, applied for visas for the two countries. They have apparently 
Canadian, British, and Pakistani citizenships. They had considerable 
trouble getting visa for India, even though they had applied on the basis
of their Canadian citizenship. From what I have been explained, it appears
that even if you were _once_ a Pakistani citizen, your application has to
go through the same process as for Pakistanis. Let me mention that some
members of the family were born either in UK or in Canada, and have lived
here since. Even their files were apparently sent to Delhi.

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882
From: sankar@hal.COM (Sankar Bandy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (21st)
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:15:53 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: quality.hal.com

In article <samaddar.711859637@dumbo> samaddar@siemens.com writes:
>onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq) writes:
>
>>My family is originally from Jhullunder (Indian Punjab) and the 
>>village they were in was predominantly Muslim.  Upon the time of 
>>partition, most of the village was destroyed and the two Mosques
>>there(Jamia masjid and masjid-ulmomin) were gurdwaras when I visited
>                                             ^^^^^^^^^
>>that area 3 years ago.  And many people there told us of similar
>>incidents elsewhere.
>
>I may be nit-picking here, but have you seen any mandir built on a
>destroyed mosque. Sikhs are/were a militant community. In India, I
>have heard many hindus say that Sikhs were responsible for protecting
>many hindus during the partition killings. I guess, some of this
>protection extended further.
>
>Again, this is just for my curiosity. If I learn of hindu destruction
>of mosques, it will make me humbler.
>
>Sumitro

So MR. Omar Farooq's silence is taken to be consent that he lied
to me about his supposed visit to East Punjab. The false evidence(sic)
put forward by him, apart from exposing his personality to others
also, substantiates that it is highly unlikely that incidents
as DREAMED above by Farooq has ever happened. Otherwise people donot
have to dream up fictitous stories to support their point.

>> Sankar
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: blackened hearts and the artists
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:14:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

From: ali@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: The Buddha of Suburbia..

>"Blackened hearts in their chests"?? Why do you think that anyone who
>represents anything Pakistani in a negative light is attacking
>Pakistan, attacking muslims, etc., and therefore must have a blackened
>heart.  I think Hanif Qureshi's writing is very much tied to his own
>experiences.  He is openly gay and the fact that he chooses to write
>about it is probably not because he is trying to defame Pakistan but
>more likely to understand himself.  As for Rushdie, he does manage to
>capture a certain political ambience of Pakistani culture with Shame.
>At least I thought so... and I dont think many people thought the
>worst of Pakistanis after reading Shame, after all having corrupt
>government, illegitimate babies, and screwed up families is quite a
>universal phenomenon.   

I always thought Hanif Qureshi used homosexual charachter in MBL for
symbolic reasons. Not sure if he is "openly gay", the character that
portrayed him in MBL was bi-sexual. There is a difference I thought.
Definitely both the authors have tried to understand the "immigrant
experience" but have you noticed that their contempt and dislike for
their "parents generation". I watched
Rushdie's interview-press conference on CSPAN last month when he made
a secret trip to the US to talk to some senators. During this press 
conference he explained his motivation to write the book. During the
question-answers session his impatience with journatlists from the 
third world was obvious. [There was one Moroccan reporter, one from
the middle East]

>Actually you dont have to go far to find people who do defame Pakistan and
>mock its existence since there seem to be a bunch of them on SCP who 
>constantly argue about topics such as Nat'l language, ethnic
>loyalties etc.,.  Did you say blackened hearts in their chests ...??

>jahanara

First off I have no clue what a blackened heart feels like. :)

Debate about Nat'l language and ethnic loyalties is part of our existence
as much as the Hanif Qureshi's search for his definition in the British
society. At what times are our hearts blackened, I have no clue. We
are just looking for definitions.



Naveed
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jawad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jawad Ali)
Subject: Re: Pakistani Olympic Athletes
Organization: California State University, Chico
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 00:11:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.202906.1583@cbfsb.cb.att.com> onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq) writes:
>
>Pakistan this time is supposed to be competing in sailing(yachting), and they
>did win a gold and bronze in 1984 and one silver in 1988.  There are also  
>sending (at least they are supposed to): archerers, fencers and one eight-man 
>rowing boat (heavy weight 8 crew -> for those in college).
>
>Omar
>omar.farooq@att.com

The only golds that Pakistan has ever won have been in hockey.

Rome in        1960
Mexico City in 1968
Los Angeles in 1984

Pakistan has also won three silver and two bronzes over the years.

This year's squad will be competing in boxing, wrestling, hockey,
sailing and track and field.  Hussain Shah, who won the only medal
for Pakistan at Seoul in 1988 (bronze) is not returning, he has
since turned pro.  Abrar Husain, Pakistan's quarter finalist in
boxing at Seoul is back.

Other retuning athletes may incude Khalid Bashir, Qamar Ibrahim,
Shahbaz Ahmed, Musaddiq, Tahir Zaman and Mansoor Ahmed in hockey,
and our last place yachting team of Mamoon Sadiq and Javed Rasool is
also back.

j n a.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: dogar@rtsg.mot.com (Haroon H. Dogar)
Subject: Re: memories, like the corners of my ..................
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:03:42 GMT

memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon) writes:

>From: dogar@rtsg.mot.com (Haroon H. Dogar)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
>Subject: Quwattay bazooay Muslim nay kiya kaam Tera..
>Keywords: Pakistan,capital


>replace bazoo with bandook :)

Sure, we can ADD bandook. And lashkar, and teer, and hockey and ghandaasa. :-)
And what was gained? Well, in the land where we used to live,
they are happy that the Muslims have gone. [I know. This isn't what
Iqbal meant, but it does apply.]


>I agree completely about the choice and how people spoke for their
>choice in one voice during Zia's referendum. 
><insert as many winks here as you want, I am tired>

Not the same thing. That referendum was viewed as irrelevant because
it was NOT devoid of a specific implementation. It was viewed as a vote
for Zia. Still, if the people of Pakistan were as anti-Allah as 
the secularists would have us believe, they would have come out in
droves to vote against him. Why didn't people give a damn? They
said, "Yeah right. Who wants to vote against Allah or for Zia?"


>jehra vi jota maray sir tay, mein tabaydaaran.

heh?

-hd
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: hasan@vxcrna.cern.ch 
Subject: Re: How formative years' education can ruin an adult male pakistani
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: pakistani, fool, terrorist, oppression, labor laws
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 11:22:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.005951.9583@panix.com>, ruthless@panix.com (Ruth Ditucci) writes...
>One of the most interesting temporary jobs I had recently was working for
>a Pakistani.  He told me he'd grown up in a poor Pakistani village and
>that he remembers there was little to eat.  Having obtained a western
>education, he's worked his way up through a well known hotel chain's
>ranks to that of the New York Resident Manager.  It was sad and humorous
>to see a man draped and dressed in New York's finest suits and custom
>shirts because when he opened his mouth- his two dollar upbringing was
>totally obvious.  He would constantly remark/ask whether I'd noticed
>if his shirts were right or if his suit was "correct."  He could probably
>feed his entire home town with the price of one of his suits (which fit
>badly).  
> 
>Not having a full understanding of american labor laws, he's in constant
>conflict with the unions, the eeo and what ever other agencies protect
>people from such terrorists.  I remember a day when one of the accountants
>didn't submit a more datailed report- he summarily dressed the man up and
>down (in full view and ear shot of his contemporaries).  The man was an
>older worker (not valued in Pakistan).  In contrast, I also noticed that
>this Pakistani didn't abuse tall white men- he only bullied old men and
>women- yes, women of all ages.  
>

The man may be as nasty as you claim, but the subject line
is too smug and overly simplistic, to say the least. Would
you imagine all people of his background behaving likewise
in a similar position? Also, people from our part of the 
world are generally faulted for being too respectful towards
older people and chivalrous towards women.

The man as you describe him seems to be a bully through and
through. But you don't have to look around hard to find many
others who are not Pakistanis.

	....(stuff deleted)...

>Imagine that, he thought his big mouth wouldn't cost him!!!  

Again probably every big mouth thinks that.

	-Hasan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Pakistan beat New Zealand
From: A.Qadir@massey.ac.nz (A. Qadir)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 21:27:09 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

Assalamu Alaikum,
Pakistan beat New Zealand 
1-0.
Altaf
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (21st)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 12:32:21 GMT

-----------------------------------
Article 26045 (33 more) in soc.culture.pakistan:
From: B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (21st)
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:42:07 GMT
Oh Really !.  May be you visited in your dreams?

Who are you trying to fool, my dear friend? Mutual Visa restrictions
between Pakistan, and India donot allow people to visit any place
unless they have a relative living there, and the purpose of visit
is to visit a well known religious place? The movements all time
must be reported to local Police, and must be before hand approved and
verified by the respective local police. Tourist VISA to random
place will require intervention from the Prime Minister and even that
may be denied :-)

How did you visit a small village then? Without VISA or in Dream?.
Cheers

bkumar

-----------------------------------

For those wishful thinkers that are implying that my silence is
indicative of lying and guilt, may keep on wishing to console your
fragile sense of integrity!  It is one thing to logically counter
someone's argument but another to call them a lier.  I do have distant 
relatives who live in Delhi (made a transition from rural to urban 
in 1947).  And I'm quite aware of the frequent notices you have to 
give to the Police about your movements.

Any more questions?
Omar
omar.farooq@att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik)
Subject: Re: national language
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:19:03 GMT

arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan) writes:
: In article <BrpA00.IKs@acsu.buffalo.edu> memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon) writes:
: >From: nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik)
: >Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
: >Subject: Re: Muhajirs in Sindh
: >Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
: >
: >>The point is that Urdu, while not being the mother tongue of the majority
: >>in Pakistan, is clearly the most widely understood .. I have only come
: >>across one Pakistani in my life who could not understand or talk in Urdu!
: >
: 
: 
: There is one solution and that is to incorporate words of othere regional
: languages into urdu.
: I have found myself using punjabi and english words when i speak urdu. So 
: what is the harm ...................... some punjabi words have soo much
: more emphasis.
: 
: sahibzada rafay khan[]

Since Urdu is already a kaleidascope of many laguages -- Hindi, Pharsee, Arabic,
Turkish, Afghani, and a srpinkling of English -- words from Punjabi, Sindhi etc.
would be most welcome.

Nadeem Malik

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: cscc13@homer.cc.uh.edu (Naveed Iqbal)
Subject: Green Card through marriage
Reply-To: alt.binaries.pictures.erotica
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:18:06 GMT



Hi guys
I need some info regarding the procedure and time involved in getting a green  
card through spouse. My fiance is a U.S. citizen and I am on F-1 status. My
visa has expired so I am living here on a valid I-20.  I plan on getting  
married in near future and have a few questions that some one could answer.

- How do you apply after the nikah?
- How long does it take for the whole process to go through?
- How long before one is able to get a work permit?
- and most important of all, how long will I have to wait after the nikah
  before I can visit Pakistan?

I need to go to Pakistan and since my visa is expired, I can't do so.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Naveed
NIqbal@uh.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,rec.sport.hockey.field
From: obaid@ecf.toronto.edu
Subject: Re: Pakistani Olympic Events
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Distribution: na 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 04:19:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.183429.9802@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor) writes:
>
>Does anyone know if the Pakistan's Hocky Matches would be televised (sp?)
>in Canada. If yes, time, date, channel (ctv?) etc....
>
>thanks,
>--nasir

I inquired from CTV and they told me (2 weeks ago) that 4 matches will be 
shown (July 27, 29, Aug ?,?).

Unfortunately, after checking today's Toronto Star, it seems that they will
only telecast (the regular games) in which Canada plays. => Women's hockey.
So they will show the women's game on Monday and Wednesday. Then I guess
they will show the women's final game.

They did say that they would telecast the final of the men's hockey tournament.

NadeemS

I guess the midnight summary of the day's events will be the best bet.
If not -> Sportsline !!!!  (Global TV, 11:30pm)
From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Fun Days at Sadiq Public School
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:09:29 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

So the patriot who declared Pakistan a farse after
the crackdown on MQM is back. The person who believes
that Pakistanis shouldn't go back to Pakistan is back.
The intellectual who classifies Pakistanis as over-
achievers and under-achievers, and writes stories 
about prostitutes and jinns is back :)

What is he up to this time...

In article <1992Jul23.142325.30397@davidsys.com> khan@davidsys.com writes:
>   I agree with Naveed Memon that Seraiki is
>a most beautiful language. 

Siraiki sure is a beautiful language. I sure would second
Naveed Siraj's suggestion, had the purpose of a national
language been only to serve as a uniting force. On a less
serious note, my disagreement is despite the fact that
many Jamalis speak Siraiki as their mother tongue :)

By the way, I have always found the noncommittal "a most
beautiful language" very hard to appreciate. What does it
mean anyway?? May be I need some extra English courses.

>   I attended the Sadiq Public School in
>Bahawalpur, from 1969-1973, and that was my
>first exposure to that culture. The people are
>so humble, quite different from those from
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>other parts of the country, and their language
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If humility is the quality which you believe
makes them unique, then may be you don't know
very much about "other parts of the country."

.... (stuff deleted)

>
>                 regards, Khalid Khan

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Subject: Re: Muhajirs in Sindh
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:05:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.040111.4415@cs.brown.edu> myh@cs.brown.edu (Muhammad Yar Hiraj) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.164843.13630@bernina.ethz.ch>, nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik) writes:
>
>|> The point is that Urdu, while not being the mother tongue of the majority
>|> in Pakistan, is clearly the most widely understood .. I have only come
>|> across one Pakistani in my life who could not understand or talk in Urdu!
>|> 
>
>That does not say much.  I come from interior Punjab and I know tens of people who do not
>understand or talk in Urdu.  The understanding of Urdu in Pakistan is ALMOST exclusive to    
>people who satisfy one of the two following conditions:
>
>	1. They belong to urban Pakistan
>	2. They have received some kind of formal education
>

It's a pleasant surprise to hear something more rational for a change. Thought
I should add that in Sindh province, outside urban centers (whatever happens to
the more than 3 million Sindhi-speaking people living in villages in the 
outskirts of Karachi), medium of instruction at least in Primary schools is
Sindhi language. Even in cities smaller than Karachi, there are Sindhi-medium
schools running along with Urdu-medium schools. These are probably all run
by the government. If I'm not wrong, no government schools are English medium
till the 10th grade. After that, in some Colleges, medium of instruction is
English.

Anyway, the point is that even formal education in Sindh doesn't necessarily
teach Urdu very much. I believe Urdu is still taught as a compulsary subject,
hence formally educated people do know Urdu... to what extent... well, that can
be seen by how much Sindhi can "muhajirs" understand. Sindhi is also supposed
to be a compulsary subject in Urdu-medium schools.

The problem is that apparently Sindhis are destined to live in rural areas.
Their coming to cities is called the problem of "migration of population from
villages to cities". Those who are living in cities are being harrassed. In
the past two years so many people have been forced to leave Karachi. What needs
to be realized is that what Karachi provides as the capital of Sindh is for
all _legal_ residents of Sindh to share. Specially once the community that
is enjoying the benefits identifies itself as a distict entity, it has to be
treated as such. One has to realize that natives of Karachi have been one way
or the other moved from the city. After that, there is no option but to ensure
that the capital's population is representative of the province's population.

...........stuff deleted

>
>
>- Hiraj

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh)
Subject: Re: Hindu minister in Pakistan Govt.
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 22:53:37 GMT

samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar) writes:

>I came across an article (probably from AP) in "India Current" a 
>magazine published in California about one "Rana Chander Singh",
>minister of narcotics in Pakistan. He was gracing the occasion of
>burning $160 million of captured drugs.

>Sumitro


Do you know how Rana Chandar Singh is connedcted to India?

He is brother-in-law of ex-primeminister V.P.Singh.

He is representing Tharparkar constituency in Sindh adjoining Kachhchh
constituency of Gujarat State.

This is not the first time he became the minister. 

Govt. of Pakistan has reserved 30 constituency for Akaliyat (Minorities)
and one of those is Tharparkar Halqah.

Bye
Adil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik)
Subject: Re: Hindu minister in Pakistan Govt.
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 10:48:18 GMT

mghayalo@uceng.UC.EDU (Manoj Ghayalod) writes:
: In article <1992Jul26.225337.19899@cc.uow.edu.au> g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh) writes:
: It's refreshing to know that seats are reserved for hindus in the goverenment
: maybe hindus are not mistreated in Pakistan. On SCP I have been reading
: that Ahmadis are not allowed to hold any government posts, is that
: true?
: 
Not strictly correct, although the effect is the same. After Bhutto's 1974 amendment
to the constitution declaring Ahmadis to br non-Muslim, Ahmadi Muslims were allowed
one or two seats on the basis of "non-Muslim" minority. This offcourse is anethema to
Ahmadi Muslims and the Khlaifa (Supreme Head) strictly stopped any Ahmadi Muslim from
standing on such a platform. This has eliminated all Ahmadi Muslims from Parliament.

Similarly no Ahmadi Muslim would ever stand as a minister on the basis of being non-
Muslim.

This situation continues till today; Benazir, Sharif etc. all use this amendment for
popular appeal.


Off course, we all know what God's answer was to the two people who moved and 
implemented this un-Islamic amendment with enthusiasm. 

Nadeem Malik

nadeem@p.igp.ethz.ch

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan