From: lking@athena.mit.edu (Loren King)
Subject: Re: Probability of Evolution
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:39:42 GMT


Just one problem I'd like to address:


In article <q8m3TB6w165w@kalki33>, kalki33!system@lakes.trenton.sc.us writes:

|> smullins@cidmac.ecn.purdue.edu (Scott H Mullins) writes:
|> 
|> > >But if the bacterium is being pressured by "natural selection" (i.e. a
|> > >hostile environment) to mutate and reproduce or perish, then if it
|> > >doesn't get just the right burst of cosmic rays at the right time, it
|> > >will perish and decompose back into its component chemicals. Is it not
|> > >so?
|> > 
|> > Oh, absolutely. What with the selection pressure of antibiotics the bacterium
|> > that cause syphilis and gonorrhea are just disappearing, right? :-)
|> > Is it purely by chance that these and other diseases treated with 
|> > antibiotics are producing resistant strains?
|> 
|> I'm not sure I can read through the sarcasm. Do you mean to say that,
|> despite the pressure of the alleged mechanism of "natural selection"
|> (or, sarcastically, "unnatural selection") organisms can and do survive?
|> And that if organisms do change, it is not by "random mutation" but is
|> instead a somehow intelligent response to the environment?


No, I think random (read: devoid of systemic purpose) mutation will do the trick,
especially for the organisms in question, viruses and bacteria, which have short
lifespans and high growth rates ... random mutations can be pretty effective
adaptive tools when generations are measured in hours and days, rather than 
decades.

 
|> Does this mean that you think organisms do actually change into new
|> species by some process, although not by the processes of random
|> mutation and natural selection as claimed by most evolutionists? Or do
|> you support the thesis that the forms of the living organisms have been
|> surviving more or less intact since their "creation"?


Again, I think the point is that changes in environment and random changes in
trait frequencies between generations is all you need.  Relatively
undifferentiated organisms with high rates of reproduction and short lifespans
tend to be very adaptable to the kinds of changes in environment that we can
introduce.


|> > >Since the doctrine of evolution does not state that a human being
|> > >springs "full-formed from the primordial soup", no valid critique of
|> > >evolution can proceed as if this is what evolution claims.
|> > 
|> > Very reasonable statement. Your approach is certainly smarter than the 
|> > average creationist in this regard. (I mean that in all seriousness)
|> 
|> Well, one advantage I have is that I do not rely only on the Bible as
|> scripture. We have all seen the folly of trying to develop any kind of
|> scientific theory from the tiny amount of information given about the
|> natural world in the Bible. While I don't disrespect the Bible for what
|> it is, neither do I pretend that it is something it isn't (i.e. the only
|> book God ever wrote).
|> 
|> I am willing to discuss the theory of evolution on its own terms, by
|> using its own premises and definitions. I am convinced that there are
|> serious flaws in the theory, that the flaws are contained in the
|> premises, and that the flaws can be exposed by deducing false
|> conclusions from the premises.
|> 
|> > 
|> > Only if we can find it. My local bookstore doesn't even have record of the
|> > publisher.
|> > 
|> 
|> Yes, it is not easy to find. You can call the Bhaktivedanta Institute in
|> San Diego at 619-272-8145 and order a copy. I think it's around $10.
|> 
|> Sincerely,
|> Kalki Dasa
|> 
|> 
|>        -------------------------------------------------------
|>       |  Don't forget to chant:   Hare Krishna Hare Krishna   |
|>       |                           Krishna Krishna Hare Hare   |
|>       |                           Hare Rama Hare Rama         |
|>       |                           Rama Rama Hare Hare         |
|>       |                                                       |
|>       |   Kalki's Infoline BBS Aiken, South Carolina, USA     |
|>       |        (kalki33!kalki@lakes.trenton.sc.us)            |
|>        -------------------------------------------------------


Loren King
MIT