From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Language
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:13:36 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Aug31.040407.11883@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, chou@cs.washington.edu (Pai Hsiang Chou) writes...
>In article <1992Aug31.011711.7915@engage.pko.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
>>I think the approach of the policy can be changed but not the goal of the 
>>policy. In other words, speak common language (It just happened to be 
>>Mandarin but majority of people on Taiwan feel Holo should be the one then 
>>we switch to it) in the public places but can speak different languages 
>>privately. TV etc media should provide spaces for all different languages.
>>
>>I just can not imagine that you speak your language and I speak mine and we 
>>have to rely on translators at the meetings, etc public places.
> 
> 
>Unfortunately, by discouraging the use of non-Mandarin mothertongues
>in these "public places," it makes these languages something improper,
>something less than legitimate, something useless, something shameful,
>something ugly that you should hide in your home or little groups.
>Given the current trend, it will just kill these languages.

I think I should make what "public places" and "private places" mean more
clearly. Giving an example,

I was at a Taiwanese restaurant at Flusing NY yesterday. There were three
groups at this place, first group speaks English, second group speaks 
Mandarin and third group speaks Holo (I did not make this up). The first 
group speaks English (which I think it is common language in the U.S.) 
because there is one American with four Chinese/Taiwanese. I think this 
group is in "public places" and other two groups are in "private places".

I usually speak Mandarin with my Chinese/Taiwanese friends even in the places
where people mostly are Americans but I will switch to English if there
is one American in our conversation group because I understand English is
common language in here and this American can not speak Mandarin but not
because I feel Mandarin "less than legitimate, useless, shameful, or ugly
or need to be hidden in my home or little group". On the contrary, I am glad
I can speak one more language. 

>Switzerland speaks German, French, Italian, and the aboriginal
>languages.  Their language mix is roughly proportional to
>H"ol"o, Mandarin, Hakka, and Taiwanese aboriginals.  They all
>know how to speak at least three of these languages (in addition
>to English).  Their government also sponsor summer or semester
>language exchange programs -- a child lives with a family speaking
>a different language and learns about their culture and language.

Certainly, Switzerland is a good example of multi-language systems. But much
more countries adopted one common-langauge policy (with coexistence of
different languages). U.S., Singapore, Philipine ..... Their situations are
similar to us. Certainly, if multi-language systems is the only answer,
that is fine, but almost everyone in Taiwan can speak common language now
why do we have to abolish this policy and push backwards to the old times? 
Also, H"ol"o, Mandarin, Hakka, and Taiwanese aboriginals are just four out 
of hundred different languages. If some members of our legislator decide to 
speak Shanghai, cantonese at legislator, tell me how to handle this?

>Many people often comment that Taiwan has a cultural vacuum, yet
>why are we so willing to throw so much culture away by killing these
>languages, and so ready to worship American and Japanese culture?

"Taiwan has a cultural vacuum". Yes, it was but is getting better. Not long
time ago, we barely feed ourselves. Nowdays, there are much more cultural
events going on in Taiwan than before no matter Chinese/Taiwanese or Western.
I am watching new culture has emerged which is mixture of Chinese/Taiwanese, 
American, Japanese, etc cultures. Personally I like it.

>Most Taiwanese are multilingual already.  I don't see why it's so
>hard to imagine these languages coexist in public places.
>People who have been in Taiwan for decades but cannot speak
>one of the non-Mandarin Taiwanese mothertongues either refuse
>to learn or are victims of the language policy.
>It is time to reform education.  Why waste time with political
>brainwashing courses when something so fundamental as mothertongues
>could be taught?

I agree school should offer different languages other than common language
as optional courses to those who are interested. I also agree those who can 
not speak Holo should consider to learn at least some basic words. Because 
it is useful and popular communication tool as Mandarin in Taiwan.

Political beliefs are like religions, any government has no rights to tell
her people what to believe. Political brainwashing courses in Taiwan have 
been served as political purposes which is very unfortunate.

>>>>BTW, just heard Holo Opera is coming to New York City in September and will 
>>>>perform at Taipei Theater which owned by Taiwan government.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>So what?
>>
>>Why angry? I entered it here because I read yesterday newspaper and thought 
>>it encouraging and interesting. That's all.
>I only asked for your point you are making with with that statement.
>Does it mean anything to the language policy?  Or are they in essence
>treating the language like an antique vace, like something that belongs
>in a museum?  Something that normally shouldn't be displayed except
>in your private own home and in the performance arts?
>Is this being used as a pacifier to stop people from expressing
>criticism?

In fact, it does, under good language policy, all languages and their related
arts should be treated with respect and equally but can still coexist with 
one common language. I was glad people are interested in these old arts which
make our culture colorful. That is what I meant, encouraging and interesting.

>Just yesterday the local station here showed CTS's Lien2Huan2Pau4
>which depicted a clown type female character named
>Chuan1Bang1Mei4 (i.e. a woman who whose underwear or some
>part is exposed).  This character was played by a very 38 man, and
>he spoke with a very heavy H"ol"o accent, obviously trying to
>use all the negative stereotypes to their extreme.
>This is outrageous, humiliating to a large group of the Taiwanese
>citizens (including many people, their parents/grandparents,
>people they respect), and they are reenforcing the shameful attitude
>that is killing these languages.  Tell me this is something encouraging
>or worth laughing.

Certainly if the jokes consistently protray stereotype image of certain group 
of people should be stopped because that is not jokes but insults. 

Tom
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan