From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: Lehi and nazies
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 04:51:14 GMT

In article 5358@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP, rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D Thorne) writes:
>
>NO LINK OF SHAMIR TO DOCUMENT NOR OF LEHI TO FASCISM
>	It was noted that at the time this document was sent 
>Shamir was not leading LEHI and since authorship can not be 
>determined by its contents it must be that anyone attributing it 
>to Shamir  is also engaging in speculation  

At the time the letter was written, Stern was firmly in charge so
it is reasonable to posit that he wrote it.  There is no direct
evidence concerning Shamir's involvement except that he was a
senior member of Lehi at the time.  

Incidentally, the letter was not the only attempt made to contact 
the Nazis.  Nathan Yellin-Mor (later co-leader with Shamir after
Stern's death) tried to reach them in person in July 1941, but was
arrested en-route by the British.
 
>                                              There exists the 
>possibility that whoever contacted the Germans meant exactly 
>what the cable says, but it is also possible that it was worded in 
>such a way as to best convince the Germans to provide arms.  
>I'm not sure what makes one possibility more likely than 
>another.  Lehi's ideology can best be described as anti-British 
>therefore the proposition that what was written was motivated 
>more by a hatred of the British than a love of the Germans 
>seems reasonable.  

Lehi had no love of the Germans.  They believed that the Nazis would
win the war and that the Nazi flavour of anti-semitism was going to
be the trend for a long time.  More interestingly, they believed
that anti-semitism could not be fought because it was JUSTIFIED; 
it was reasonable for non-Jews to hate Jews because after all the
Jews were the Chosen People and therefore superior.

>                    Do you have any evidence that LEHI 
>promoted fascism as their model? (e.g. essays or party 
>platforms) 

Almost every historian who ever wrote about Lehi called their politics
fascist.  However, it was much more fascism of the Italian flavour
than of the German flavour.  The extensive contacts between the
Revisionists (both Lehi and Irgun) and the Italian fascists are very
well documented.

>	Jacques Derogy and Hesi Carmel write of Yair (Stern):
>"...Following the policy established by the Hagannah at the beginning 
>of the war, the Irgun had made the decision to subordinate 
>everything to the struggle against Hitler.  Stern had disagreed with 
>this truce, which allied the revisionist nationalists with the 
>international socialist members of the Hagannah and the Jewish 
>Agency.  He maintained that the Jews must not abandon their 
>activities against British imperialism, which was occupying Palestine 
>and forbidding entrance to the persecuted Jews of Europe. Stern 
>formed a small group of "ultras," attracting many followers of high 
>quality and character, which came to be known as the Lochamei 

high quality and character!  a very strange way to describe a band
of fanatics, desparados and criminals.

>Herut Israel (Lechi)."  from: "The Untold History of Israel" 1979.
>	Former Lehi members  Nathan Yalin-Mor, 

see above 

>                                              Amos Kenan (Peace 
>Now), and Geula Cohen (T'Chiya) span the spectrum of Israeli politics 
>and that's good evidence that there was no other ideology than that 
>of convincing the British to leave.  

People change over time.  Your argument is invalid.

>                                     What about the possibility that 
>Stern (if he indeed was responsible for contacting the Germans) 
>favored fascism?  I can't put myself back into that era, but fascism 
>did have an appeal for some back then.  The scape-goating of the 
>Jews by Hitler certainly was not unique to Germany.  Anti-Jewish 
>sentiment was a fact of life in England, France and the US at the time 
>as well.   Hitler would not have pursued his war against the Jews if it 
>hadn't met with such indifference by the world community.  One can 
>only speculate, but perhaps Stern thought that the Germans were 
>less anti-semitic than the British and therefore better allies in the 
>end.  Since Stern was murdered by the British authorities it's a hard 
>argument to refute.
>	Now both communism and fascism have both fallen into 
>disrepute.  What, if any moral distinction exists between communism 
>and fascism? There certainly wasn't much difference between Hitler 
>and Stalin or Lenin.  Nonetheless there were figures in Israel who 
>supported communism before 1948 and like Shamir and Begin 
>worked within the system democratically after independence.  
>Having known people who suffered because of McCarthyism I 
>wouldn't want to see a purge of "reds" from Israeli politics.  Shamir 
>and Begin deserve no less.  While I never particularly liked Shamir's 
>policies I believe that he is no worse than Bush, Mitterand, Major and 
>any other democratically elected leader of the 20th century.  During 
>the time before independence LEHI and Shamir had to deal with the 
>anti-semitic policies of the British Mandate and they thought that the 
>continuing loss of Jewish lives justified extreme actions.   I'm sure 
>that Shamir regrets some of his activities during that period while 
>others he would repeat again. 
>
>	Richard Thorne  rdt@med.pitt.edu

Brendan.