From: jcliu@four-lab4.Berkeley.EDU (James C. Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Not a Myth at All
Date: 9 Jan 1993 23:19:09 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley Dept. of Nuclear Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: four-lab4.berkeley.edu

Seems like some debate over the 'No foreigners' by Michiaki Masuda and
Mike Fester.  I had an entertaining discussion with a UC Biochem professor
who recently came back from Japan.  He had some interesting insights of
a statistical perspective on the Japanese culture.

  MM> I am claiming that if you have the better command of Japanese, chances 
  MM> are higher that you could deal with the shopowner who is reluctant to
  MM> deal with a customer who cannot communicate in Japanese.

  MF> Then please address the issue; if there is "No foreigners" sign, how 
  MF> does a Japanese shopkeeper even know whether there is going to be a 
  MF> language problem.  It's racist, pure and simple.

Yes, I agree with Mike-san; it is racist.  However, IMHO, the question
should be, is it malevolent racism or is it self-protection.  The prof
seemed to think of Japanese society, and Oriental cultures in general, 
as examples of societal 'statistics.'  Americans are caught up in
individuality and insuring of personal rights, i.e. sticking up for the
3-sigma folks out at the tail end of the population distribution, but
Asians tend to look at things from the point of view of how does it
affect the +/- 1 std. deviation.  Although the majority of Americans or
other gaijin have been decent, honest, and law-abiding while in Japan,
there are enough rowdy ones who have given gaijin a bad name.  For the
Japanese, the question is one of economics and statistics.  Why bother
catering to a market that brings in only a small amount of revenue when
the added risk of damage to the shop and its reputation are at stake?

  MM> BTW, what would you think about the "irezumi okotowari" (No tattooed 
  MM> person allowed) policy that you might have seen just below "gaijin 
  MM> okotowari"?

  MF> What, if anything, does it have to do with racism? Unless you mean 
  MF> there may be a "race" of tattoed people somewhere.

  MM> "Some gaijin caused trouble at the bar." -> "Gaijin cause trouble." ->
  MM> "Gaijin okotowari."
  MM> "Some people with irezumi caused trouble at the bar." -> "People with
  MM> irezumi cause trouble." -> "Irezumi okotowari."

Masuda-san's comment, reinforces the theory of societal statistics.
Tattooed people tend to work for the Yakuza.  Not all people who have
tattoos work for the Yakuza, but considering that tattoos tend to be
painful, somewhat toxic, and brazen, the statistics on people who get
tattoos probably aren't the most favourable. :-)

  MM> BTW, just to clear my thought, why Afro-Ameircans were discriminated
  MM> against in the US?

  MF> It's called racism.

  MM> Then, what did (do) Afro-Americans have that made (or still makes?) 
  MM> them suffer from racism?

I think the point again, that Masuda-san is trying to make is that
Blacks as a group disproportionately commit more crimes and continue to
be stuck in poverty due to racism which they perpetuate by their criminal
behavior.  Most black American's don't commit crimes, but enough do and
disproportionately, so that the discrimination continues.

I find it interesting that from Mike-san, we have the view that
discrimination in any form with regards to race is 'DAME.' While
(unlesss I'm mistaken), Masuda-san implies that many of the races or
race groups bring the discrimination upon themselves.  Chigaimasen ka?

[stuff deleted on sniveling, weak-mindedness, sentaku, nado...]

BTW, the professor was a 'limy' Brit who felt very impressed with
Japan's huge 'middle-class.' He concluded that there were obvious
benefits to society through culturally instituted socialism...improved
the statistics, soo desu.

Jaa, James
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan