HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dsnoek@terapin.com (Daniel Snoek)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Snow Camping - Klondike Derbies
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:16:42 PST
Organization: BBS

For those out there that have participated in a Klondike derby that required a
sled to be built I would like to know which way the sled moved forward.  Did
the boys push the sled or pull the sled with ropes?

Last year I led our troop with a sled that was first designed to be pulled but
I found that pushing was much more efficient and caused less problems with rope
tie-ups.  Our sled rode low (No more than 3 feet), was surprisingly light (two
skies, platform a few inches above the skies and triangle side boards) and had
a PVC pipe on the back to push.  With a light sled (out smallest scout could
lift it) I found that pushing it was fastest and could be done by just one
person.

How have others of you made their sleds - places for scouts to push on the
side/back or ropes to pull?
From: naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Rovers organized in colleges?
Date: 11 Jan 93 00:09:43 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

How are Rovers (and other older scouts) organized in College?

While Exploring in the BSA does go into the age of college students
(exploring is age 14-21) IMHO it does not tend to organize on 
the college campus campus very well.

People from Alpha Phi Omega attended Int'l Rover conventions and so
I think the age groups are relatively similar, but I would like to find
out if Rovers organizae themselves into groups on college campuses
and if so how leadership is determined?



-- 
(naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu)	  | Leadership,Friendship, and Service
(vri_rjfin@dmis.ha.osd.mil)	  |          Alpha Phi Omega
"The service we render to others  | National (Co-ed) Service Fraternity
 is the rent we pay for our room on earth" - Sir Wilfred Grenfell
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: esther@verdix.com (Esther Lumsdon)
Subject: Re: APO-L
Organization: Verdix Corp
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:28:34 GMT

GRS03109@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (*GRS9999102) writes:

>Can someone please tell me how to subscribe to APO-L, the Internet
>service for members of Alpha Phi Omega?

APO-L is available on Bitnet and Internet.  From the APO-L FAQ:

> 6) How do I subscribe to APO-L?
> Since anything mailed to APO-L itself will be automatically mailed to
> all reciepients of the list, subscription requests should be mailed to
> the list server, and NOT to the mailing list. The address of the
> list server is:
>    Listserv@Purccvm
> or
>    Listserv@Purccvm.BITNet
> The subject header of the request is immaterial and you may stick in
> any subject line that you wish. The body of the message should contain
> just this line:
>    SUBSCRIBE APO-L FirstName LastName
> Thus, for instance, if Frank Horton wished to subscribe, he would send
> to Listserv@Purccvm an email message that simply read:
>    SUBSCRIBE APO-L Frank Horton
> 
> The list server software is rather finicky, be sure to supply both first
> and last names.
> 
> As with anything you mail to a list server, do not include any signatures
> or extraneous text in your message; these may confuse the list server.
-- 
-- Esther Lumsdon, not speaking for Verdix.   esther@verdix.com
Q: How many user support people does it take to change a light bulb?
A: We have an exact copy of the light bulb here and it seems to be
   working fine.  Can you tell me what kind of system you have?  
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?
Reply-To: mwilson@orl.mmc.com
Organization: Martin Marietta Orlando
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 14:29:48 GMT

The issue of Cub Scout (BSA version) camping is not just a matter of 
liability. Previous posters are correct that BSA Cub Leaders are not trained
to conduct campouts. Webelos Leaders Do receive training for camping within the
program limits for Webelos camping. 

The BSA program is based on a progression of experiences. The contention is 
that to introduce elements of later programs too soon (or too much) will make
the later part seem 'old hat' by the time the boy gets there. If there is nothing
new to experience ('we did all that in Cub Scouts') there is nothing to keep
the boy interested and keep him in the program.As a BSA leader, I am required to 
present the program as it is established by the National Council.

As to camping, our council allows Packs to have what amounts to a mass family
campout at the Council camp. Webelos dens may go on overnight campouts as a den
with a ratio of one adult to one or two boys. They are also encouraged to attend
a few Boy Scout troop campouts. Boy Scout troops may go camping when and where 
they choose. I agree with most of the policy (they only allow 5th grade Webelos
to attend District Camporees, I disagree with that) since it is in keeping with 
the nature and emphasis of each part of the program and the established progression
from family to independent young man.

BTW, we try to have one Troop/Pack Family campout each year where we conduct a
crossover. After the crossover the new Boy Scouts participate in their first 
activity as a Scout (a night wide game) without parental supervision (parents
are stuck in a meeting with the Troop committee).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson                              Martin Marietta E,I & M Group
mwilson@orl.mmc.com                      Mail Point 170
Phone: (407)356-6386                     P.O. Box 555837
Fax:   (407)436-5482                     Orlando, FL, 32855-5837
My opinions are my opinions, Martin Marietta can speak for itself.
From: rickcl@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?
Date: 10 Jan 93 08:06:12 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.


In article <1993Jan9.142948.5351@iplmail.orl.mmc.com> mwilson@orl.mmc.com writes:
>As to camping, our council allows Packs to have what amounts to a mass family
>campout at the Council camp. Webelos dens may go on overnight campouts as a den
>with a ratio of one adult to one or two boys. They are also encouraged to attend
>a few Boy Scout troop campouts. Boy Scout troops may go camping when and where 

Our council also has Council sponcered summer camps. These camps are three
nights for the younger boys and five for the Webelos.  These camps are the
exception to the parent & Cub type campouts.

An other reason, for having the parents along, is it teaches the parents that
they can go camping and survive.  This makes them more likley to help out with
the troop when their son moves on.  Both of our Pack's first year Webelos dens
went to Webelos Woods this fall.  Two of the parents were supprised to find out
that camping isn't fatal.  (Only one boy wouldn't have stay at night if his
mother hadn't been their.)
-- 
Rick Clements (RickCl@pogo.WV.TEK.COM)
From: GRS03109@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (*GRS9999102)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: APO-L
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:59:39 GMT
Organization: APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY
NNTP-Posting-Host: stat.appstate.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

Can someone please tell me how to subscribe to APO-L, the Internet
service for members of Alpha Phi Omega?
From: dsnoek@terapin.com (Daniel Snoek)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scouting in Thailand
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:50:15 PST
Organization: BBS

Scouts here in America do wear their uniform as well, up to a certain point. 
When I was in Cub Scouts, we all wore our uniform to school the day of  cub den
meeting which was usually right after school.  The time frame of this was
grades 4 and 5.  At middle school, when we joined Boy Scouts, the school
enviroment is different, so students don't wear their uniforms

Even though scouts here in the United States don't sit outside of school
helping their fellow classmates across the street, we are no less helpful to
others in out community.  Many of the ranks required for Eagle require helping
others in their community service projects and when I was working for my Eagle 
Project last year, other younger scouts did a great deal to help out.  The role
of scouts in service to the local community is still strong.  For a local
example, the council I am involved in that is just north of San Francisco, we
participate in a "Scouting for Food" drive where troops raise literally tons of
food to be distributed locally.

Teachers in uniform, given the present society and Political Correctness would
be an impossibility.  I don't know any teachers who are leaders in Cub/Boy
Scouts, but I do know several who are against Boy Scout Policy.

Finally I would like to add that scouts here in the US still are committed and
still do respect their uniform.

        Daniel Snoek, T48, Eagle '92
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: daved@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Dave Duguid)
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 20:55:26 GMT
Reply-To: daved@phenix.samsung.com (Dave Duguid)
Organization: University of Regina

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?
Summary: 
Expires: 
Reply-To: daved@robinhood.engg.uregina.ca (Dave Duguid)
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: University of Regina
Keywords:camping,younger sections

In our group , camping begins at the Beaver level (Ages 5-7) with parent/son
camps. These camps are more of an indoor sleep-over but we try to create the
camp atmosphere to the best of our ability. If the sleep-over is held in a localgymnasium, we bring along our electric campfire and campfire blankets and let
the kids experience the fun of songs and skits. Where it's possible, we set up
dome tents indoors and let the boys get used to sleeping in groups. The indoor 
camps can be held at any time of the year, ours generally run in January. Our
prime guideline is that each Beaver is accompanied by a parent. When this isn't
possible, we attempt to match the boy with a Scout (Ages 11-14) or Venturer
(Ages 15-17) who acts as a big brother for the event.

This past fall, we held a Link Camp at a local outdoor recreation facility. The
Beavers and Cubs camped indoors while the Scout and Venturer sections of our
group camped outdoors. This gave the kids an excellent opportunity to see what
the other sections do and what type of activities they can look forward to.
Our way of thinking is that by introducing the younger boys to the advanced
sections, they build a desire to continue in Scouting.

The Cub section (Ages 8-10) usually has two outdoor camps each year
, but we always choose a site that has a cabin or house in case the weather 
turns bad. The Cubs operate from a base camp, the joy of backpacking
is something to look forward to in Scouts.

By having the boys start camping in Beavers, we can start them on the right
foot. They are responsible for their corner of the tent, and for carrying 
their dirty dishes to the dish pan. I've been a Troop Scouter before, and
its easier to get a Beaver to slowly learn camp etiquette than it is to try
and impress the same thing on a world-wise, semi independent 11 year old Scout.
By the time our kids get to Scouts, living outside is still big magic but
they know that if the camp chores are shared willingly, they all have more
time for enjoying the outdoors.(Don't get me wrong, they still grumble about
the chores,but they do know that it's better to grumble while doing)

Sorry for rambling, I posted without reading the FAQ so please shake your heads
and use appropriate descriptive language.

May your pack be light and your trails be many...

Dave Duguid a.k.a 
Grey Wolf, 79th Regina Beavers
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada, S4N 5Y8
Tel:(306) 789-9038
email:daved@robinhood.engg.uregina.ca
From: GRS03109@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (*GRS9999102)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: APO-L
Date: 12 Jan 1993 01:54:46 GMT
Organization: APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: alf.appstate.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

ONCE SUBSCRIPTION TO APO-L HAS BEEN CONFIRMED, HOW DO I START CORRESPON
DING WITH THE OTHER USERS?
From: gjh@ukc.ac.uk (Greg)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?
Date: 9 Jan 93 15:08:16 GMT
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

In article <1993Jan08.205526.360675@sue.cc.uregina.ca> daved@phenix.samsung.com (Dave Duguid) writes:
>In our group , camping begins at the Beaver level (Ages 5-7) with parent/son

Hey! That's better than we got here. POR (Scout Association Policy,
Organisation and Rules) sez something along the lines of "Beavers do not
camp." It also says "Beavers do not march," but that's wandering a little from
the topic. :-)

Actually with a sons and dads approach we could probably do it, but it is not
something I have heard of being done.

I am surprised at the BSA in a way; my group's Cub camps are usually 3 day/2
night affairs with a week's joint group camp a little further away every few
years.  And I always took on board without question the local idea that cubs
cannot handle anything longer!  How wrong you can be; it was summer camp in
the Pocanos (Pine Forest Camp, PA) that opened my eyes; all the campers
were full 10 weekers right down to age of, what, 6 years old I think.

All it takes is good counsellors; we shy away something terrible in Britain
from the idea of having adults in the same accommodation as kids/campers
but the fact is it works.  Summer camp does not necessarily go in for child-
leadership in the same way, but I think it's something that is dismissed
rather too easily by Scouters over here.


Cheers,
Greg Harewood
---
SL 1st Harbledown
--
Greg Harewood
NMR Physics, UKC.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: jemorti@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Jack Mortimer - K31)
Subject: Re: Joining Ropes (was Re: Hangmans noose)
Organization: NSWC
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:44:00 GMT

In article <C0KAvD.Ir7@dircon.co.uk>, uab1018@dircon.co.uk (Frank Leonhardt) writes:
|> 
|> >A knot refers to any interlacement of one or more pieces of rope, and
|> >include bends and hitches (according to Webster's 9th).
|> 
|> A knot is something you use instead of a splice if you don't
|> have time to do a proper job (or don't know how to splice) :-)
|> 
|> -- 
|> --- Frank J Leonhardt -- uab1018@dircon.UUCP -- leo2@cix.compulink.co.uk -
|> ------ London, England Tel: ++44 81 429 3047, Fax: ++44 81 868 3754 ------
Frank, You have gotten me curious. What splice should I use in place of
a taught line hitch?
Jack Mortimer
jemorti@relay.nswc.navy.mil
From: Simon Jerram<EEE90053@IBM3090.BHAM.AC.UK>
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Scout (&Guide) sections.
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:29:02 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom
NNTP-Posting-Host: ibm3090.bham.ac.uk

==============================================================================
Can anyone tell me what sections scouting and guiding is orgainsied into.
In britain we have:

                   Beaver Scouts 5-7
                   Cub    Scouts 7-11
                   Scouts        11-15
                   Venture Scouts15-21

Venture scouts in britain replaced the now defunct Rover Scouting Sections some
twenty odd years ago.  Ventures are mostly mixed, while other sections are most
ly all male with some mixed and all female.


Or is this an FAQ?
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 10:13:09 EST
From: Pam Lautsch-Bowman <LQ4@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Yellowstone

We are planning to take a group of Explorer and Boy Scouts on a
high adventure trip this summer to Yellowstone.  Explorers - age
15-21, Troop - probably some 13 year olds through about 16.

We went out to Philmont two years ago (3 week trip) and the kids loved
it.  So, this year they want to go West again.
(We are located in central PA - State College - so this is a major
trip for us.)

Although we have called there and obtained the maps and one leader
was there about five years ago - we are still seeking additional
information.

If you have any superstitions, tales, concrete guidance, must do's,
must don'ts, -- any kind of information that is not found in the
guidebooks (or recommendations for good books) - Will you
please forward them to me personnally?

Thanks alot.

*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Pam Lautsch-Bowman                          LQ4@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Computing Services Division                 LQ4@PSUVM.BITNET
College of Health & Human Development       104 East HHD Bldg.
Pennsylvania State University
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
From: medic@hardy.u.washington.edu (Travis Lauricella)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: New council in the great northwest
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:50:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1it85lINNjtr
Distribution: pnw
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

Well, looks like they have actually got the merge of councils well underway.
I just received a newsletter this weekend from "Pacific Harbors Council."
Surely they could have come up with a better name.  There's only two 
or three harbors in the area that I can think of.  Wouldn't "South Sound
Council" work better.  Is "Twin Peaks Council" taken?  That would be 
appropriate too, with it spanning two mountain ranges.

(No, dear reader, you didn't ask, but I'll tell you anyway.  The merging
of councils was a bad idea.  I think Tumwater Area Council lost out most of
all...)
-- 
J. Travis Lauricella     | In the 1500's, we called it witchcraft.
<medic@u.washington.edu> | In the 1900's, we called it Murphy's Law.
                         | In the 2300's, we call them chronotron fields.
"Be good, and you will be lonesome." -- Mark Twain
From: rickcl@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?
Date: 9 Jan 93 00:18:45 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.


In article <1993Jan8.164059.13516@bernina.ethz.ch> macman@bernina.ethz.ch (Danny Schwendener) writes:
>kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary) writes:

>>[...] The BSA liability insurance does not cover den or pack
>>camping specifically because the leaders are not trained.  I know that

The insurance may not cover camping, but I don't think it's a training issue.
First, outdoor training is part of Webelos Leader training.  It's required to
be a trained Webelos leader.  Second, not all Scout leaders are trained or have
been trained reciently.  

Our council sponcers both Cub Scout and Webelos resident camp in the summer.
Webelos are encouraged to camp.  It is required to be a parent & Cub activity.
At Webelos Outdoor Training, we were told we parents could double up and bring
two boys.  But, they didn't recommend the leaders double up because they were
ususally too busy keeping the parents out of trouble.

>So much for the BSA policy. But what is your personal opinion on it?
>Assuming that the leaders are skilled in camping, should they
>be able to set up a campout with their cubs?

I think camping for Cub's is a good idea.  We have taken our first year Webelos
camping once so far.  It was a council activity.  We are looking at taking them
camping, fishing or hiking in the spring.  (Most of our boys are in baseball,
so time will probably prevent us from doing all three.)
-- 
Rick Clements (RickCl@pogo.WV.TEK.COM)
From: trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Snow Camping - Klondike Derbies
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:37:50 GMT
Organization: ASCI

In article <dsnoek.35kp@terapin.com> dsnoek@terapin.com (Daniel Snoek) writes:

   For those out there that have participated in a Klondike derby that
   required a sled to be built I would like to know which way the sled
   moved forward.  Did the boys push the sled or pull the sled with
   ropes?

The Klondike Derbies that I participated (and also helped win *grin*), we had
a sled the was pulled from the front with rope, and we had one person in the
back running with the sled, steering more than pushing.  Of course, our sled
was quite large, and could be steered without having to bend over....

Bob
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Klondike Derby
Date: 11 Jan 1993 17:39:31 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
NNTP-Posting-Host: carina.unm.edu

Ahh, something I can talk about with great experience... My original 
council had the longest and oldest running Klondike Derby, Tamarak,
until it was shut down by Nationals in the mid 80's (small council, 
was absorbed by surounding councils). 
The Klondike was set up with a beginning race uphill, run in heats of 10
sleds (or so).  The park we used was fairly large, so the twons were
very well spread out.  It was not unusual for the Derby to last all day
from 9 in the morning until 4 in the afternoon.  There were usually about 
20-25 towns, varying each year.  

Some info aobut sleds...  We had weight requirements, I don't remember them
exactly, but there was a minimum weight, I want to say 70 pounds, but I 
may be off by a bit, but it was a significant weight.  This meant that 
the sled had to be pulled by several Scouts, and our set up also had a 
Scout on the back pushing.  The construction of our sled was fairly
close in appearances to the actual sleds used on the Klondike.  
For the runners, however, since we quite often had a combination of snow,
slush, ice, bare earth, rock, etc...(in other words, varied conditions)
the construct of the sled had flat ski-like runners, curving up in the 
fore, with a rounded metal runner, also curving upwards in the fore, 
underneath.  This helped in the mobility greatly.  While the metal runners 
did slow us down in some areas, because of the variability of the surface, it 
helped speed us up in others, giving a nice balance.  This helped in loose
snow and over areas like mud and bare earth (less contact points) and the
ski surface kept it on the surface in other conditions.  With lighter
sleds, this would be disadventageous.  With heavier ones, it's ideal.  

One joke we always had was that in the initial "rush" up the hill,
invariably, someone fromm one of the teams next to us would fall 
(don't ask me why, I never figured it out) and we would run over them.
Rarely owuld they be hurt any more than bruised, and it was never done
on purpose.  But, it was amusing that this always happened, every year
for over 10 years.  Different teams, different people, same incident.  

Anyway, the participants could only be up to 15 years old, so as to 
give the younger kids the experience, without having older, more 
experienced teams winning every time.  The older Scouts of course, staffed
the towns and waystations.  (as well as search teams...)  

Our Klondike seemed to run no matter what.  I remember one year in the
middle of a blizzard, we ran it with only seven competing teams because
everyone else thought we were crazy to do it in that kind of weather (when 
the storm finished, there was over 3 feet of snow in just one day and night).