From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Subject: Re: Terms: shovinizm, natsionalizm etc.
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 13:20:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.123728.7961@polaris.utu.fi>, Olli-Jukka Paloneva <opaloneva@abo.fi> writes:
> In article <BzIwzA.G9K@cs.columbia.edu> Igor Pankevich,
> igor@cs.columbia.edu writes:
>>You guy seem to, again, argue about term definitions. You seem to confuse
>>"nationalists" with "chauvinists". While there is nothing wrong with
> Russian
>>nationalists, I believe, Russian chauvinists are a different story. If
> you agree
>>on the difference of those terms, I believe you will agree on the rest
> of the
>>matter in question.
>>
>>Igor P, the Moderator.
> 
> Does anybody know where chauvinist, nationalist and
> patriot comes from?
> 
> I have heard that an Napoleon's time officer, who
> liked his fatherland very much was called "Chauvin"
> and after that the word became negative. Does anybody
> know, if chauvinism is used at all in Russian language.


Why, of course! That's why I used the term in the first place!
Shovinizm is a word with negative allusions in Russian language (as
in Finnish and English). It has even a military undetone, which suits
fine, according my understanding, to post-soviet conditions.


 
> Acceptance of word "nationalism" may mean good or
> bad. 


Exactly! That's why I try avoid using the word that has totally
different meanings in different contexts. In Soviet days, it was
directly opposed to internationalism, and was, therefore sometimes
almost equal to "fascism" - another word, that does not denote anything
without a context (like "communism").

Usually, they are used just as curse words (like mostly in this newsgroup).
Of course, we are free to call here anybody we wish Hitlers, Ceausescus
and, perhaps, Mutlus, but I fail to see how it would contribute to
mutual understanding (if not to "mutlual" understanding :-)


> In Europe governments are worried about their
> citizens, who oppose Maastricht's agreement. There-
> fore patriotic words based on Hegel's nation-state
> ideology are kept away from everyday's debate.


Patriotism has allusions to Patria (=fatherland) and patria
potestas (=the power of father in his house, patrimonium).

 
> Patriot was a good word in the last days of CPSU.
> That ment people who were strong enough to resist
> Nazism and save Russia from German occupants -
> "Vetherans of the holy War - Voina blagorodnaja"
> Now it means anti-democratic communists, who
> oppose development of democracy and market
> system.
> 
> Some persons have opposed of restaurations of
> Russia by renaming .soviet to .russia.
> 
> The problem is that we use words patriot and
> nationalist in mixed frames of reference. Meaning
> of words in Russia is developing as fast as politics.
> 
> Therefore I suggest we should determine or clearly
> show in what context we use words.
> 
> -olli-


I second the motion! Especially the usage of the word "nationalism"
as an explanative world does not contribute anything to any discussion.

with best regards
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe