HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: croehrig@cs.ubc.ca (Chris Roehrig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth,rec.music.synth,comp.music
Subject: Cubase/Windows dropped MIDI note/note-off problem
Keywords: cubase
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:03:55 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: carib.cs.ubc.ca


I've heard about this problem; now I can actually verify it.   I'd like to get  
more info about it and call Steinberg Jones tech support.   Cubase is such an  
awesomely in-depth and well-designed sequencer; the only fault I can find with  
it is this bug, which I want fixed soon!

If you are running Cubase/Windows and do NOT have problems with losing
or garbling MIDI messages (either in the record or simply playing with MIDI  
Thru), please let me know!   Please include the following information:
	type of computer (e.g. 33MHz '386, 64K cache)
	MIDI interface   (e.g.  MQX-32M)
	Windows version and mode (Standard or Enhanced)
	whether you are using Microsoft's Multimedia Driver or the card's 
	native driver

If you DO have problems with occasional dropped note-off messages, or other  
MIDI errors, please include the above information as well as a detailed  
description of the problem.

My case:  25 MHz '386, 0K cache, Soundblaster 1.5, Windows 3.1 Standard mode,  
Cubase's Soundblaster 1.5 Pro driver.   I lose occasional (every few minutes)  
note-off messages and sometimes spurious notes are generated (i.e. a current  
note input is screwed up, giving a different note which never gets a note-off  
message).   This happens even when the sequencer is stopped, and all I'm doing  
is playing my keyboard with local echo off, and Cubase's MIDI Thru
active.   The garbled notes, or missed note-offs are actually recorded as well,  
so it seems the MIDI data is getting trashed upon input.

I've done the same thing (playing with local echo off, MIDI Thru on) with the  
Cakewalk/Windows demo, and have had no problems.   This seems to indicate to me  
that it's a problem with Cubase's Sounblaster MIDI drivers, or that the program  
itself is simply too slow for my '386.   I'll be receiving my MQX-32M shortly,  
so I can try that as well.

Thanks,
Chris Roehrig
University of British Columbia
Xref: sparky rec.music.makers.synth:285 rec.music.synth:18803
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth,rec.music.synth
Subject: Re: Vocoder Plus
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:37:30 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <9211231556.AA05065@cabell.vcu.edu> csc8mnp@cabell.vcu.edu (Macon N. Pegram) writes:
>
>Does anyone have any experience with Roland's VP-330, the Vocoder Plus?
>It had a four octave keyboard and Tony  Banks replaced his Melotron 400
>with it to get his string and choir sounds on the Duke and Abacab tours.
>Does anyone know where I could get one?

I have a VP-330 that I've used for many years (sorry, it's not for sale).
It is a 4-octave keyboard that produced strings and human choir in addition
to being a vocoder.  

I recall the "Keyboard" interview with Tony Banks where he stated that he 
replaced his Mellotron with the VP-330.  While the VP-330 made some
nice sounds it was hardly a suitable substitute for a Mellotron.  I
suspect that Tony Banks was so sick of lugging around a Mellotron that
he was willing to give up some of the sound for convenience.  At
the time the VP-330 came out, it was the only practical alternative
to the Mellotron for producing human choir pads.  Although the VP-330 choir
was reasonably convincing, it was not of the gothic nature of the
mellotron choir.  The VP-330 strings were typical of Roland's top model
string sound.  Not bad in the high end but buzzy in the low end.  The
vocoder section of the VP-330 is pretty decent but if you merely want
to create backing vocals you would do much better with a Digitech Vocalist.

All in all, the VP-330 had its own sound and it was a pleasing sound.
The unique properties of the instrument kept it from becoming obsolete
for many years after its peers went by the wayside.  It didn't have the 
haunting "edge" that the Mellotron provided and would probably disappoint 
you if you are seeking the "Mellotron sound".  (Listen to Genesis' 
"Three Sides Live" album for an example of the VP-330 choir on
various tacks.  I believe "The Dodo" and "Afterglow" are two examples.)

If you want Mellotron strings and choir, I recommend you shop around
for a used Kurzweil 1000PX.  It comes closest I've heard to capturing
the spirit of the Mellotron - especially the choir (which, unfortunately,
is not in the default ROM on the K2000).


-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
From: mapsj@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Simon Juden)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Anyone play funk out there?
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:07:12 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

Hi,

FIrstly I'm sorry if this newsgroup isn't the appropriate place for my
question, but I can't think where else to put it ;-) [no rude replies
please...] 

I'm a (classically trained) pianist who has played keyboards in a number of
bands, up until now almost exclusively rock/blues bands. Recently I've joined a
band that plays funk, which I quite enjoy but haven't really listened to and
certainly have never played before. So what I'm after is this: does anyone out
there play in a funk band, and if you do could you give me some sort of idea as
to what keyboard players can get up to(!) - at the moment I'm just doing stabby
short chords with the occasional bluesy run which seems to fit, but it's not
what I'd call very exciting or difficult...in short I want to learn to play
what is a new type of music for me and I'd be grateful for any hints, tips,
pointers etc..

Please mail replies to mapsj@uk.ac.bath.gdr, I'll post a summary if there's
interest.

THanks a lot in advance,

Simon
QUIT
lot in advance,

Simon
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: phammond@cs.tcd.ie (Paul Hammond)
Subject: Re: Sampling option for 01/W
Summary: It's quite likely the 01/W can "load samples"
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:33:56 GMT

The 01/W can take new PCM sample cards like most of the Korg series. These cards
were meant to be available through Korg themselves, however I have heard that
apparently Korg used samples from other companies without permission or 
reimbursement. As a result there is a big court case going on at the moment.
The PCM cards have been naturally frozen out of circulation.
There is a new device out called the SAM-1 by a company "Double Dutch". It 
basically consists of .5 Meg RAM and a disk drive inside a small box type unit.
This connects into the PCM slot on all the Korg M, T and Wavestation series.
The synths "see" this connection as a PCM card. Samples can be loaded into the
memory of the SAM-1 via the floppy from all the major samplers, Akai, Roland,
Emu and Ensoniq. Thus your Korg can use any of these samples for itself to
process with envelopes and effects in the normal way. It's as if you loaded
samples into the sample RAM of your synth.
Where does this tie in with the 01/W ? I don't know yet, the article that I
read about it did not mention the 01 which I find staggering since it is the
main Korg flagship synth. My guess is that it works with the 01 or if it doesn't
at the moment, then it will be upgraded to do so in the near future.
I hope this puts the 01/W in perspective for you as regards it's capacity to
expand it's sample base.

Paul Hammond 

(phammond@cs.tcd.ie)
From: csc8mnp@cabell.vcu.edu (Macon N. Pegram)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Vocoder Plus
Date: 23 Nov 1992 09:56:40 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


Does anyone have any experience with Roland's VP-330, the Vocoder Plus?
It had a four octave keyboard and Tony  Banks replaced his Melotron 400
with it to get his string and choir sounds on the Duke and Abacab tours.
Does anyone know where I could get one?

the grinch
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: zowie@daedalus.stanford.edu (Craig "Powderkeg" DeForest)
Subject: Re: WHICH $500 KEYBOARD TO BUY?? ANY RECOMMENDATIONS?
Organization: Stanford Center for Space Science and Astrophysics
Date: 15 Nov 92 18:24:50

In article <1992Nov12.155748.484@berlioz.nsc.com> cdyer@berlioz.nsc.com writes:
   I am thinking of learning how to play keyboards and would like to know
   which unit is the best for cost vs. performance.  I am restricting my
   purchase to no more than $500, but I want a lot of features that allow
   me to connect it to my MAC, experiment with new sounds, and has
   percussion. 

You're describing the intermediate range between really-cheesey-but-affordable
keyboards like Casio is good at making, and the much-better-but-way-expensive
keyboards that Yamaha has typically made.  Casio is currently extending its
range up in quality, and Yamaha down, so there are several boards to choose
from in this price range.

I just bought a Yamaha PSR-500 board.  Typical of this range, it has MIDI,
lots of sequencing features, drum sounds, many (100) voices, 30 note
polyphony, sustain pedal, five octaves, and velocity sensitive keys (a must!).
Also typical of this range, it *doesn't* have programmable sounds, good action
on the keys, particularly good (CD quality) sound quality (I'm guessing 10
bits digital), or much expandability.  I got it at Best for $430.

It's certainly enough for me to practice & play on, and makes a good
instrument for the marching band (after I extensively modified it); you could
even use it in a pinch for a real (smaller-band) performance situation.  But
there's definitely a break between what you get for ~$500 and what you get (eg
Korg, Yamaha Clavinova, etc.) for $1000 - $2000.  If you're looking for a 
faithful facimile of a piano, it's probably best to shell out the extra bux.
--
WARNING: At all times, keep rubber side *DOWN*
----
Craig DeForest -- astrophysicist for hire.  

From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:28:35 GMT
Subject: Re: What synths are comparable to an M-1?
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth

K1 is 8 bit.  that fact never seemd to make it into the manual, though...

Pete Brooks
From: hyrh_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Howard Yermish)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: TX-81Z for Sale
Date: 17 Nov 92 02:52:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

Yamaha TX-81Z rack mount synthesizer, 8 part multi-timbral
	$250 obo.

You pay the shipping.  Please E-mail me direct.

Howard Yermish		hyrh_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
----
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: hjv@phil.ruu.nl (Hendrik Jan Veenstra)
Subject: Re: Patch Copyrighting
Organization: Department of Philosophy, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:50:58 GMT

ljnelson@unix.amherst.edu (Laird Nelson) writes:


>Now, in a couple of cases that were just handed down in the past couple of 
>weeks, it has been ruled that *UNDER THE CORRECT CIRCUMSTANCES* the 
>phenomenon of "reverse engineering" is okay.  What this would mean, if it is
>applicable in the synth world, and I'm not sure that it is, is that you 
>(being the hypothetical third-party M1 developer) can hand me a card, I can
>plug it in, figure out what you did, i.e. write down all your settings on a 
>piece of paper, hand you the card back, and enter those settings myself into
>my M1.  What I *cannot* do legally is take your card & copy it directly into
>my M1 or onto my hard drive.

Obvious question: what are those 'correct circumstances'? The way it's stated
above makes the complete (c)-issue a bit of a bag of air IMO. Obvious
observation: how can one _ever_ conclude that you copied the patches
instead of typing them in by hand...?

BTW: thanks for the 'research'...

--
Hendrik Jan Veenstra    hjv@phil.ruu.nl  *  How can I save my dreams
Dept. of Philosophy                      *  in the nightmare, in the flood
University of Utrecht                    *  But I try.
The Netherlands                          *
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: jgszursz@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH G SZURSZEWSKI)
Subject: Re: SY-22/TG-33/SY-35 patch editor software? (PC)
Originator: jgszursz@c00740-400wi.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jgszursz@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH G SZURSZEWSKI)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:44:18 GMT



I would also be interested in the answer to this question, but for a Mac.
Are any of Opcode's products (Universal Editor/Librarian) workable with a 
TG-33?

Thanks,

Joe Szurszewski
jgszursz@eos.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth,rec.music.synth
From: phammond@cs.tcd.ie (Paul Hammond)
Subject: Re: Mail order company for Tascam MM-1
Summary: I need address and phone number
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:10:04 GMT

Could the person at the below node please mail me personally. I have
forgotten the full email address.

mza.zwery.wang.co.at (It's something like this anyway)

I need the full address of that company you mentioned that's selling
the MM-1 for $800. A phone number would also be great.

Cheers

Paul (phammond@cs.tcd.ie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: ja51359@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (axelrod)
Subject: Re: Mannheim Rocket??
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:25:36 GMT

sgk@cbnews.cb.att.com (stan.g.kobylanski) writes:



>In the November 92 issue of Keyboard, Jim Aikin discussed music education       
>and posed a small musical facts quiz in which he asked to define some musical
>terms.  I didn't know all of them but I had heard most of them at       
>one time or another except for "Mannheim rocket".  I've ask a few
>knowledgeable musical friends and they have never heard of it either.  Because  
>it was in a synthesizer oriented peridical, I thought perhaps someone who
>reads this discussion might know and be able to define this term.

>Stan Kobylanski

This might be a joke related to the crappy band Mannheim Steamroller.
It has some potential for humor.

Jeff

Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: randim@well.sf.ca.us (Nigel Larch)
Subject: FOR SALE: Roland R-8 "Human Rhythm Composer"
Keywords: drum machine for sale
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:42:25 GMT

For Sale:

1 Roland R-8 "Human Rhythm Composer" drum machine	$400/best offer.

I believe that this is no longer the top of the line.  I think the
new version retails for about $800.  If you think my price is too high,
feel free to make any offer you deem appropriate.

You can respond to this account or call 415-863-8140 24 hrs/day.

					-Randy Imler
From: pehe@electrum.kth.se (Peder Hedlund)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: What kind of group is this ?
Date: 15 Nov 92 14:35:17 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Divided Misprinted Dwarf-Nebulas Inc.


I've been skimming through the articles in this group and it seems to me that
there are more articles concerning what to call the group than actual synth
ones.
Please stop the name-fuzz and get along with the real thing.

Peder Hedlund               | "Remember, there's a big difference between
pehe@electrum.kth.se        |  kneeling down and bending over"
Royal Technical Highscool   |  -Frank Zappa-
Stockholm                   |
Sweden                      |
From: billy@irvine.com (* Bouncer **)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Re: Mailorderprice for Tascam MM-1?
Date: 18 Nov 92 07:44:21 GMT
Organization: Irvine Compiler Corp., Irvine, California, USA

>Anyone can recommend a mailordercompany selling to Europe, accepting VISA-card
>and having a good price for the Tascam MM-1 19" mixer?
>What's the price for this mixer in the U.S. anyway?

I think this mixer might be discontinued due to "new and improved" versions.
The newest Tascam 19" rack-mount that I believe replaced the MM-1 is the
M-1016.  Here's a quote from an advertisement:

   "These stage mixers, the M-1016 (16 channels) and the M-1024 (24 channels),
    are ideal for a wide range of live applications such as PA, sound
    reinforcement and MIDI keyboard mixing.  Both models have a combination of
    mono and stereo input channels and offer clean, transparent sound.
    Designed for easy integration into just about any type of sound system,
    they are compact and portable.  And the M-1016 comes with rackmounting
    rails."

   I'm not sure what the advantage of the M1016 is over the MM-1 (unless maybe
it offers microphone/XLR inputs on some of the channels, not sure?).  If its
the MM-1 that you want, you'd probably have to pick up one used (maybe someone
reading this post would have one for sale or know of someone).  I live in
Southern California, and in the Recycler (a local yet widely distributed resale
newspaper) I've seen them for as low as $600.

    I have one myself and really like their compactness and clean
sound.  Since they respond to both MIDI patch changes and key on/off
commands, you can "sequence" in your muting just like you would any
other instrument.  I especially use this by starting a song with the
main stereo output muted, and then un-mute them a fraction of a second
before the down-beat of my song (due to Midi's 31.25K baud rate and
serial nature, you can't expect to "un-mute" the MM1's outputs the
same moment as the downbeat of your music without experiencing some
sort of "clipped" attack).  This works great, especially when mixing
to DAT which is so sensitive as to acurately record the low-level
"hiss" of an effects box/etc.

> recommend a mailordercompany selling to Europe, accepting VISA-card

Manny's Mailbox Music
1600 Broadway
New York, NY 10019
United States

Hours:  Monday through Friday
10 am - 6 pm (US - Eastern Standard Time)
Voice: 1-800-448-8478 (free call if dialed from within the US)
  Fax: 1-212-765-7256
(ps. if you are calling from outside the U.S. add the "country" code in front.)

Manny's Music prices for the aformentioned mixers (US funds):
   M1016 (16 channels, 23 lbs) . . . . . . $1119.00
   M1024 (24 channels, 30 lbs) . . . . . . $1599.00
    (I'm not sure what shipping would cost though)

-- Later, billyb
From: jwgst2+@pitt.edu (James W Gourgoutis)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: What synths are comparable to an M-1?
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:12:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

Hello!
	The subject line says it all.  I'm interested in purchasing an M-1,
but I want to consider all options.  I'm wondering what keyboards are 
comparable/similiar to an M-1.
	Someone once told me that a Kawai K-1 (or maybe it was a K-4) was
sort of like a Korg M-1, but since the Kawai was older, it could be had used
for around $500, instead of the $1000+ for a used M-1.  Is this at all true?
Please advise.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
James Gourgoutis       				   
Mechanical Engineering                         
University of Pittsburgh                          
e-mail me at:  JWGST2@unixd.cis.pitt.edu      
	       or JWGST2@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Thanks!          
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-       
--
From: copley-devon@cs.yale.edu (Devon Copley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Re: Shielding Computer Monitors?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 19:55:01 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: rec
NNTP-Posting-Host: chameleon.zoo2.cs.yale.edu

In article <BARSZ.92Nov18164842@bmtlh168.bnr.ca> barsz@bnr.ca (Peter Barszczewski) writes:
>I am having a problem with the electro-magnetic interference (EMI) coming
>from my computer system bleeding into my mixing board, midi cables, patch
>chords, effects, etc., etc.  It is especially noticeable when I turn on my
>computer monitor. 

Well, I know it might be kind of obvious, but what I do is turn off the monitor
whenever I'm actually recording.  I know how to control the sequencer blind,
and I have no need for the screen when, say, I'm singing or playing to
multitrack while listening to MIDI stuff.  Alternatively, dump a quick
mix to one track of your multitrack (I'm assuming you're synced) and use
that for monitoring instead of the computer.

Sorry I haven't got anything more to offer than these half-baked solutions,
but they're easy to do and work for most situations.

Devon




Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: Ensoniq ASR10 Info Wanted
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 20:22:48 GMT

The core of designers who founded Ensoniq were I think the ones
who designed the SID chip for MOS Tech and used in the C64 and
other personal computers. They started to design a successor to
the SID and next thing you know they designed the chip that became
the heart of the Mirage.
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Re: RENAME: Those against name change PLEASE READ!
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:45:22 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <1992Nov14.012953.1615@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, by dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes):
> How could I have caused a ruckus alone? YOU ALL HAD TO HELP ME, didn't you?

No, they took consideration in you, the single complainer, and tried
to convince you, even though you do not belong to the elite.

>     He who has self-conceit in his head - 
>          Do not imagine that he will ever hear the truth.

Well...
-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: ikettu@cs.joensuu.fi (Ilpo Kettunen)
Subject: WANTED: Midiator
Summary: WANTED: Midiator
Keywords: wanted midiator
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 08:29:57 GMT


	WANTED: Midiator MS-101 or MS-103
	(possible with windows driver)

	Please E-Mail to:
		ikettu@cs.joensuu.fi

	PS. Since it's not available here in Finland
	    I am interested in new ones too.

Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: jdrage@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (your humble friend and narrator)
Subject:  Roland U-20 Patch Editor / Librarian
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:10:43 GMT

Anybody out there in net-land use a Roland U-20 RS-PCM keyboard with an MS-DOS
based MIDI setup?  I've been searching for a patch editor / librarian for a while
now and haven't had much luck.  I *know* that there's one out there made specific
for the U-series keyboards called "U-Play", but I haven't seen it anywhere!  Can
anyone help?  Thanks!

      _/   _/     _/  _/   _/_/_/   _/_/_/
     _/  _/_/   _/_/_/_/  _/_/      _/       What were the skies like
_/_/_/ _/  _/ _/  _/  _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/                    when you were young?
From: aj733@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tim Hnat)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: MIDI file dump
Date: 21 Nov 1992 21:25:57 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aj733@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tim Hnat)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu



I have a Roland D-20 keyboard and an Amiga 500 computer...

What I would like to do in a nutshell is to dump my rehearsal/goofing around/
writing time on the keyboard into a file on my computer/hard-drive.

Suposedly through the recording of MIDI events I guess.

I feel that it would be "easier" and more accurate than taping these sessions.

Does anyone know of any programs designed to do this or have any suggestions?
Or possibly a more appropriate newsgroup to post this question to?

Any help is appreciated.
E-mail i sprefered...since I'm not able to get to Usenet that often.

Thanx in adavance

[th]


-- 
    NO SALESPERSON MAY LEAVE THE FLOOR OR LOOK OUT THE DOOR WITHOUT THE 
			AUTHORIZATION OF A SUPERIOR
				(THE MGT.)
Entropy requires no maintenance.					[th]
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth