From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: response to ed
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Followups-To: alt.flame
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:39:50 GMT

Once again, Anika (anon-1218@twwells.com) jumps to conclusions and writes

: Warning***Anika's strongly felt opinions follow****

[based on incomplete evidence, it seems]

: 17-Nov-92 22:38	erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)	Re: response to ed  writes:
: 
: 
: >Teresa Kline (aatresa@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov) wrote:
: >
: >: >Nope, not at all.  Your name was drawn merely as an example.  Anyone would've
: >: >done as an example.  Tell you what ... replace "Teresa" with "Person A".  
: >: 
: >: Since this is your usual way of formatting examples, by *not* using it, you 
: >: made it personal.
: >
: >It is?  Hmmm...thanks for bring it to my attention.  No, I didn't make it
: >personal - you took it personally.
: 
: 	Since Ed has continued posting this exchange, I assume responses
: 	from the peanut gallery are acceptable? I remember looking over the
: 	letter when this began, and I know I really REALLY loosely paraphrase,
: 	but it seemed the two instances where names were used were like this:

I have used names in examples before.

: 	If Teresa feels a certain way, it reflects her feelings of self-love.
: and 	Stephen likes me, so the reflects *his* feelings of self-love.
: 	Now before anyone jumps down my throat for mis-quoting and basing a 
: 	judgement of sorts on it, please note that *however* it was written,
: 	that's how I interpreted, and clearly, so did Teresa. 

Yes, so that is your right, and Teresa's, to interpret any post any way you
want to.

: 	*Anyway*, since the names were used and references to the owner of
: 	those name's self-love were made, I think it *becomes* pretty 
: 	personal, regardless of the intent. If someone said, "If Anika doesn't

That's your opinion, that's what you got out of it.  You obviously ignored
the message behind the posting and got caught up in "emotional content" and
"intent of poster".  Why can't you just accept a post at face value and stop
getting caught up in your emotional issues behind what you think the poster
meant?

:  	like me then that's a reflection of her self-love," I'd come back
: 	with either, "Who said I don't like you?" or "What the @#!@ do you 
: 	know about my self-love?" As the latter is what Teresa did, I suspect
: 	this is why. 

If Teresa had bothered to reply via email, I would've been happy to explain.
She chose to post, which indicates to me that she has an axe to grind.

: >: >But I *do* know you, and, to somedegree, how and why you think as you do.
: >: 
: >: No, you *think* you know me, how I think and why I think as I do.
: >
: >Well, I stand corrected.  I never knew you could dance so well on the head of
: >a pin.  <sigh>
: 
: 	*sigh*????!!?!?!?! Resignation at being manipulated and down-trodden 
: 	by yet another woman. *sigh* (Anika sticks finger down her throat)
: 	Give me a break. She has a legitimate reason to be upset, IMHO.

That's not what I meant.

: 	If it was really a misunderstanding, why the hell can't Ed just say,
: 	"I'm sorry you took it that way, that's not how I meant it. I'm sorry
: 	if it hurt/upset you." Why force the issue and hope for Teresa to
: 	break and apologize for a misunderstanding that clearly came
: 	from what *Ed* wrote? I do NOT suggest apologizing for writing it.
: 	I suggested apologizing for the pain it's caused. Is that so tough?

I don't feel any obligation to you or anyone else to publicly apologize for
a post which causes soneone else personal stress or embarassment.  Of course,
you are making the assumption that my apologies weren't tendered in email to
the person or persons concerned.  In fact, I *did* apologize in email to
Teresa - but that's none of anyone else's business.  She chose to ignore my
private email and continue to flame me - that's her business.  In any case, it
is *not* your affair, and I resent your attempt to manipulate me into making
some sort of public statement about the whole thing.

: >: And it was based on that past association that I resented the personalization
: >: of your post.  It is because of the "personal history" that seeing my name in
: >: your post made it personal. 
: >
: >It was a not-so-random personalization.  Perhaps I should've turned it around,
: >perhaps I should've mentioned someone else.  But why are you so upset?  What's
: >the big deal?  I think by now everyone on asar is aware that I was using an
: >example.  Why are you still so offened by it?  Why are you trying to hurt and
: >insult me by trying to rub my nose in the opinion that I made a poor choice in
: >examples?
: 
: 	No, everyone on asar is aware that you *feel* you used it as an
: 	example. Teresa has stated several times why it upset her. Why can you
: 	not say you're sorry for the misunderstanding and let it go? I think

What business is it of yours, or anyone else's, what settlement Teresa and I
come to in private email?

: 	of all the posts you've been flamed for and note that NOT ONCE have
: 	you said, "Hey - sorry if you misunderstood me." Your stance has
: 	always been, "Fuck you if you misunderstand me. I'm right I'm right
: 	I'm right." In fact, on that memorable occasion you called us all
: 	illiterate dipshits because we "misconstrued" your post. You never
: 	apologized for that smear, either.

No - what you mean to say is that I have never apologized THAT YOU KNOW OF.
I certainly don't make every email public, nor do I make apologies public,
unless it affects a large number of people.  Why do you need to be right?
Why do you need for me to make some sort of public apology?  Like I said
before, my policy is, if I offend someone, they have the right to say,
"I was offended", and I have the right to respond in PRIVATE email.

Oh, and as to your accusation that I called "us all illiterate dipshits",
that wasn't one of my posts.  I said something completely different.  I
think you have me confused with someone else.

Anika, I think it's time you realized that I will never conduct my life the
way you want me to - and I will never expect you to conduct your life the
way IO would want you to.  Why keep trying to make me behave according to
your standards of conduct?

: >: >Who told you I wasn't a survivor?  You and I have had many long-distance
: >: >phone conversations about both my abuse and your abuse.
: >: 
: >: Allow me to be more clear.  The newsgroup is alt.SEXUAL.ABUSE.recovery.  I made 
: >: the worst engineering error, I ASSUMED that people would realize that by using
: >: the generic "survivors", I was talking about survivors of SEXUAL abuse.  In our
: >: conversations, you never mentioned *any* sexual abuse.
: >
: >I'm not aware that this newsgroup is limited to survivors of sexual abuse only.
: >It certainly isn't mentioned in the FAQ.  And, yes, I believe I *did* mention
: >my own sexual abuse history, because I clearly remembered mentioning the "ex-
: >pulling the gun" incident to you.
: 
: 	Actually, it *is* mentioned in the FAQ, but that's neither here nor
: 	there. This group has often welcomed survivors of other forms of
: 	abuse, though generally they ask if it's alright first.

Oh, I see.  If I'm right, "that's neither nere nor there", but if I'm wrong,
well, let's flame away...

: >: >I hardly know *everything* there is to know - 
: >>: 
: :> But your posts have the tenor of this omniscient.  This has been pointed out
: :> to you before, by me and others, in posts and e-mail.  And you have not 
: :> responded.  It should be clear to you by now that the *way*, the *tone*
: >
: >I believe I have.  And how do you know what email I have gotten, and what
: >email I haven't, and how I have answered it?  For your information, I *do*
: >answer *all* email I get, insulting or not.  Why don't you stop trying to
: >build this thing up into a "us-vs-Ed" mob mentality thing?  I'd advise you
: >to let it go, Teresa.  All that hate and anger's gonna eat you up, to paraphrase
: >a movie...
: >At least take it to email, instead of cluttering up asar with your own personal
: >vendetta...
: 
: 	She may know what e-mail you've received if *she's* received e-mail
: 	concerning it...  Just a thought. And answering e-mail doesn't mean
: 	responding to the complaint. As has been said, it's not generally
: 	the content which is offensive, but the *tone*, yet you refuse to
: 	express your intent and assure yourself and us that your tone is

I *have* expressed my intent.  You have ignored those posts, it seems,
preferring instead to flame.

: 	not misunderstood. And also, you've never once said you're sorry these
: 	misunderstandings occur. Is *this* your intent? To create flames in
: 	order to elicit support from the group?

Why are you trying to manipulate me into saying what *you* want me to say?
If misunderstandings occur, that's what is.  That's life in general - people
*will* have misunderstandings, and disagreements.  Flames aren't very productive
but they seem to go on.  Perhaps if we all had an asar picnic, and we could chat
face-to-face, you would understand a bit better.  Maybe.

: 	Incidentally, Ed, *you* posted this one, so who's doing the
: 	cluttering? Looks like you just need the last word.

No, I'm just responding to posts.  Teresa ignored my email, which *did* contain
an apology, BTW, and instead chose to continue her little vendetta.  I am merely
presenting my viewpoint.  If someone doesn't like it, or my viewpoint, or me
personally (but that seems hard to believe that someone would like or dislike
someone they've never met), theere's a little thing called a "kill file".
--
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177

"There is nothing to seek and nothing to find.  You're already enlightened, and
all the words in the world won't give you what you already have.  The wise
seeker, therefore, is concerned with one thing only: to become aware of what
he already is, of the True Self within."  -- Zen maxim
-- 
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177

"There is nothing to seek and nothing to find.  You're already enlightened, and
all the words in the world won't give you what you already have.  The wise
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery