From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:16:25 GMT

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
:    I agree that the people at Commodore R&D are fine hard-working people,
: but the overall effectiveness and productivity of Commodore R&D is not very
: good, due entirely to the lack of forsight by management.  As a company, 
: Commodore never gets new products to the market in time for them to be 
: competitive.  When innovative products are designed, they generally reach
: the market years late, at which time the products are no big deal.  
: Commodore also has major problems in producing new systems in any quantity;
: For instance, why is it that, in the Amiga's entire seven-year history, only
: *ONE* Amiga has ever been produced that has anything other than a 68000 on
: the motherboard?  Compare this to the number of Macintoshes that have been
: developed by Apple that have '020s, '030s, or '040s on the motherboard.

Then again, C= being a world apart from Apple with most of C='s
revenues being centered around the low-end, there have been three
68000 systems and two 68030 ones.  Not really all that bad.

:  I would not call Commodore's handling of the Amiga in the U.S. "management".
: "Mismanagement" is the more appropriate word.

Their US handlings need work.  But clearly their popularity in Europe,
even if it's not the US, means something.  The US is not the world,
despite claims otherwise.  ;)

:    Yes it does.  I ask you agin: what is the ratio of Amigas without 68000s
: on the motherboard to Macintoshes without 68000s on the motherboard?  Or,

If I even kept up on mac's, I'd tell you.  As far as I know, the mac
128, mac 512, mac plus, the SE, and the classic.  Then, there were the
68020 stunts, the mac II, and now the mac LC(???)...  I dunno.

: what is the ratio of Amigas with 24-bit palettes and 8-bit graphics on the
: motherboard to Macintoshes with 24-bit palettes and 8-bit graphics on the
: motherboard?  Or, an even more basic question: what is the ratio of Amigas

That's like saying what's the ratio of NTSC and PAL-compatible Amigae
in ratio to NTSC and PAL-compatible MAC's.

: with built-in SCSI controllers to Macintoshes with built-in SCSI controllers?
: Finally, what is the ratio of notebook Amigas to notebook Macintoshes?

These are all some pretty well-engineered questions.  It's simple to
answer, though.  C= seems to have been centered around the very low
end over the past several years, while Apple has always aspired
towards the high-end.

:    Yes, Apple is six times bigger than Commodore, but Apple turns out about
: 20 times as many products.  Commodore is turning out far fewer new systems
: than their size indicates that they should be turning out, with respect to
: Apple Computer.

Being six times bigger (though it DOESN'T turn out 20 times as many
products) does not equate to turning out more or less products.  Look
at the size of NeXT, and then look at the size of SUN.  Look at the
products.  See?

:    Commodore produced a new chipset; it is caled the ECS.  The Paula chip
: just happened to be the only chip that wasn't improved.  If any hacks to
: the Paula chip to make it handle HD drives are possible, Commodore had the
: perfect opportunity to introduce such a chip with the ECS.

But to do what?  Paula is in need of a TOTAL overhaul, and making it
faster requires getting it more bandwidth, something generally thought
to be the task of the AA chipset.

Though I was disappointed that there wasn't an ECS Paula, I would have
liked some buffering for my serial port.  ;)

:    How many brains does it take to come up with something like the PowerUp
: program?  If you were to replace the Commodore Board of Directors with 

More than what most IBM clone co's of the same size have?

: chimpanzees, they could come up with better programs than this.  Commodore
: has been doing programs like the PowerUp program for ten years.  I remember

True.

: a program back in 1983 in which you could trade in Ataris, ColecoVisions,
: Timex/Sinclair 1000s, or other game machines and computers for $100 off the
: price of a C-64.

And they're good programs.  And they do well.  Kind of says something,
doesn't it.  Of course, it needs a LOT more **ADVERTISING** (there's
that "buzzword" again.  ;), but that's been said.

:    SuperHires is ONLY useful for video titling.  It's too slow for anything
: else, has horrible color capabilities, and can't be deinterlaced.

Not true.  1) Some people really don't care if they're interlaced if
it helps them get more space on their desktop.  I'm one of them.
That's the way my 2000 system is, and I don't mind.  The other system
isn't like that, though it's not HERE.

:    Since when would you want to use Productivity for this?  Most film 
: projectors update at 44Hz.  It would be much better to simply reprogram one
: of the lower resolutions for this frequency.

The ECS chipset is programmable.  Why not get more resolution if
you've got it?

:    What is the big deal about that?  As Kevn Darling pointed out, there many 
: are cheap, off-the-shelf video chips than can adapt to NTSC and PAL. 

Yes, but how many are in use by a major and widely-accepted (to a
degree) computer system?  The Amiga's one of the few.  Then again, so
is SGI.

:    Oh, yes, the infamous 160x480 and 160x960 HAM modes.  Too bad the
: horizontal resolutions are lower than on my old VIC-20.

Yes, but the vertical could be useful.  Again, it's the
programmability that's being referred to here.  You can mix and match
resolutions for the desired effect, something not possible on other systems.

:    Bullsh*t.  If Commodore were to commit to purchasing a large enough
: quantity of these drives, there are probably many manufacturers of variable-
: speed drive motors that would jump at the opportunity to sell a million HD 
: drives to the Amiga market.

Would a million be bought?  I dunno.  With flopticals and HD's
available at relatively low prices (40mb for ~2-300), why not just
jump for the faster, greater storage?

:    Who said anything about dropping backwards compatibility?  To design a
: chip with better capabilities you don't have to make it completely software
: incompatible with other versions.

(The comment was made that one should just drop compatibility in the
wake of a new, greater chipset.  ???  Maybe after RTG has been in the
system for a while and non-rtg-compliant software has been tossed).

:    Oh, you mean the ONE new chip that is a no-brained cross between the older
:Gary chip and a simple IDE drive interface.  Excuse me, but I'm not impressed.

No-brained.  Yeah, right.  Comparative to making a new chipset, fine.
But designing huge gate-arrays isn't something I consider a
"no-brain", and it's not something that gets produced lightly.

:    I've been waiting for SEVEN YEARS.  *TODAY* is the SEVENTH ANNIVERSARY of
: the introduction of the Amiga 1000, and there are still absolutely no Amigas
: whatsoever that have better sound or color capabilities than the Amiga 1000.
: Expecting this much patience is unrealistic.  

So you've been waiting since the day the Amiga was released for 8-bit
graphics and more stuff?  A little exaggerated?  I thought so.  I'd
say that you probably began craving about the time that VGA caught on.

:    And wait, and wait, and wait, while Apple, IBM, and the rest of the world
: leaves them in the dust technologically.  Forget about Atari; competing with
: slaggards willl get you nowhere.  How many of the Olympic althletes got to
: the Olympics by competing against the slowest people in their classes?  Not
: very many.

I bought the Amiga because I like it, and I like its capabilities,
which haven't been matched by any past, present, or future Apple or
IBM products.  They can't do what my Amiga can do NOW, and has done
for the past 7 years.  Which means I'll stick with the Amiga.  This
Falcon has been the first thing I'd consider a "contender", and it's
vapor till I see it, just like any new C= rumors.

I don't consider IBM's or Apple's systems to be "awesome",
"remarkable", or even "great" systems.  I still, even though it's not
surpassing what's on available systems in all counts, think the
Amiga's architecture is pretty damned great.  And I think the 3000's
got lots and lots of possibilities.  The best thing about the 3000, to
me, is the bus.  I like it.  Moreso than NuBus, MCA, EISA, and just to
say it, ISA.  And that means something to me.  TO ME.  Why?  I like to
diddle in hardware.

Greg

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(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
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