HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mauht@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr A Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: Diplomacy in Middle Earth
Date: 22 Jan 1993 19:58:29 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: borage.csv.warwick.ac.uk
Keywords: Necromancer


In article <1993Jan22.033230.28478@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, js138@cus.cam.ac.uk 
  (John Sloan) writes:
|> An ommission on the ascii map produced is that DrF is a supply centre.  I blame
|> this ommission on the newness of the ascii map, and the fact that I didn't
|> produce it.

I've just received a copy of the original map - I've been playing using an
ascii map like the one John posted - and have found four other errors...
I'll post my corrected version if enough people are interested.
-- 
*****************************************************************
*Alexander Lewis "Second and Special" Jones - the terminal sloth*
*****************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: limmej@aix.rpi.edu (Joel D. Limmer)
Subject: Re: Alliance (Re: Eng & Fra Alliance)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:53:25 GMT

I think if Italy can resist jumping on the vaporize-Austria-bandwagon,
and Austria can stand leaving an empty Venice behind him, the Italy-
Austria alliance can do wonders, particularly if they squish Turkey
first.  Austria can stick to the land, and Italy can stick to the 
sea (primarily).

If Italy does gang up on Austria, there's no one to stop the natural
Russia-Turkey from forming, and guess who's the victim?

As for the France-Germany alliance, it is Italy's responsibility to
help England survive if it doesn't want a single-minded France mucking
up the Mediterranean.

Somehow, I've been Italy in all 4 judge games I've been involved in
(one was Naples in a chaos game!).  Judging from the number of 
abandoned Italys (Itallies?) it seems that it's not such a coincidence . . .

Joe Caesar/First Citizen Mario/Archduke J'm Alekania/Prince Naplon
Joel Limmer
From: fkschmid@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Frank Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: English and French Alliance
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:35:33 GMT
Organization: Student Pool, CSD, University of Erlangen, Germany
NNTP-Posting-Host: faui00k.informatik.uni-erlangen.de

an7844@anon.penet.fi writes:

>All alliances are possible in diplomacy as diplomacy is a game of 7 players
>rather than 7 nations.  However, some alliances are more natural and stable
>than others!

>   The popularity of alliances comes and goes with the passing seasons.
>In postal play in the 1960's the Anglo-French alliance was considered 
>to be strongest on the board and Germany had very poor results.  In the 
>early 1970's the Austro-Italian alliance was very popular as a result
>of the Lepanto Opening developed by Edi Birsan and the Key Opening 
>(developed by Jeff Key) (see version <3.0> of the DIPLOMACY AZ, stored at
>the EFF JUDGE, for definitions of these terms) and the Juggernaut between 
>Russia and Turkey has always been popular.  

Well, does this variant has a name:
France and Germany ally against England from the start, and leave their
southern borders unguarded. One Italian army marches directly through
Austria towards Turkey (Turkey, which was me, realized too late what
happened). Russia, now without allies, was the next one to vanish from
the map.
This looked like a four-player alliance, but i doubt they have all known
each other before. Is this variant famous or did they create it?

The above was the start of the game beaver, which has now reached
Winter 1907, with Austria 4, France 8, Italy 10, and Germany 12 forces.

>Mark Nelson (there's no egoboo in being anon!)
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
>Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
>and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.

Huh? What? Where am I?

Ciao,
     Frank
---
*********Frank Schmidt**********fkschmid@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de*********
From: kbs@cs.utexas.edu (Kenneth Brian Samuel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: English and French Alliance
Date: 21 Jan 1993 22:22:29 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: levelland.cs.utexas.edu

	I believe that the French-English alliance is arguably the
strongest alliance next to the Russian-Turkish alliance. That brings
up a good question that has crossed my mind lately. What do people
thing is the strongest two-player alliance, meaning which pair of
powers, from the start, has the best combination of the following
three aspects:
		1) Best combined attack
		2) Best mutual defense
		3) Best chances of avoiding backstabs for the longest time

Ken
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: an7347@anon.penet.fi (Cane Boy)
Subject: Improper Behavior
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: rec.games.diplomacy
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:51:50 GMT


There is a certain player, X, who is involved in multiple games; this
player threatens to turn on player Y in one game, B, if player Y
doesn't do what player X wants in another game, A.

Person X: you know who you are.

I think this sort of behavior is absolutely improper and
reprehensible.  I am especially disturbed since player X is now
actually moderating a game.

I had always thought that each game is a separate universe.  Now maybe
you can learn from experience that so-and-so is untrustworthy or a
chronically bad tactician or whatever, but I think it is totally
unfair to use this "cross-game" diplomacy.

Any thoughts from others?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: c85perwe@IDA.LiU.SE (Per Westling)
Subject: Re: English and French Alliance
Reply-To: c85perwe@und.ida.liu.se
Organization: CIS Dept, University of Linkoping, Sweden
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:32:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.221013.16800@fuug.fi> Mark Nelson writes:

> fkschmid@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Frank Schmidt) writes:

> > France and Germany ally against England from the start, and leave their
> > southern borders unguarded. One Italian army marches directly through
> > Austria towards Turkey (Turkey, which was me, realized too late what
> > happened). Russia, now without allies, was the next one to vanish from
> > the map.
> > This looked like a four-player alliance, but i doubt they have all known
> > each other before. Is this variant famous or did they create it

> Only a few alliances have names, the one you outlined doesn't.

The Austrian-Italian version sound like a Key Lepanto to me.  If it
works it is a good way to disguise the alliance as it's unlikely that
Italy if allied to Austria having armies in its homeland.

Maybe Russia (together with Italy) should have interacted in the West?

> One of my favourite games involved a wondering Austrian army.  It moved
> into Mun in Autumn 1901, was thrown out by the Germans in Spring 1902,
> retreated to Bur in Summer 1902 and then took Par in Autumn 1902!

In one game I had Italian armies in Bohemia, Tyrolia and Venice after
1901.  Then I had a hard time to choose between attacking Germany or
Austria.  The Turkish offer was the best, which I accepted (silly
me!).  In the last turn of that tournament game Turkey stabbed me
hard, so I only qualified to the final due to a player skipping the
final.  The Turk was a bit surprised when I showed up in the final as
Austria, with him as Turkey again!  One of the best FtF players in
Sweden was Italy now.  Can you say Lepanto?

> Mark Nelson (there's no egoboo in being anon!)
--
Per Westling              |
Mardtoprsgatan 15         |  c85perwe@und.ida.liu.se
S-582 48 LINKOPING        |  In praise of Idleness -- Bertrand Russel
SWEDEN                    |
Stuff regarding DPP may be sent to x90perwe@ida.liu.se instead.
From: gregt@carson.u.washington.edu (Greg Tanner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: re: New EFF game for *Dedicated* players
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:19:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1k6u8lINN2uf
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

To All Dedicated Diplomacy Players:
***********************************

New unlisted EFF game:  for details, see previous postings.

   ***  6 players now signed on, still waiting for 1 more  ***
From: kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Resignations and picking up "dropped" countries
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:40:16 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA


  I've been trying to pick up abandonned positions in various games
on the Washington judge to try and get things moving. Rather than
producing any forward progress, I usually find that some other country
has dropped by the wayside and the game is still on hold.

  I'm currently in ten games. I'm lucky if I get three results a week.
Something is really wrong here.

  I also think we're running out of people to pick up the positions.
Anyone with any experience is probably saturated (as I am) and
novices are likely to pick up a position, get befuddled, and drop it
again.

  Perhaps we should just dissolve a few of the games and use the players
to fill in the gaps on some of the other games? If you're in a game
that is seriously stalled, please talk this over among the other
players.

-David
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:02:52 EST
Reply-To:     Rick Desper <desper@MATH.RUTGERS.EDU>
From:         Rick Desper <desper@MATH.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject:      [desper@math.rutgers.edu: followup failed]

Is the Washington Judge down?  I have not received any mail about
games which had deadlines last night.
						Rick
From: magnus@solaris.astro.uu.se (Magnus Selhammar)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Dropouts
Date: 26 Jan 1993 13:10:10 GMT
Organization: Uppsala University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: solaris.astro.uu.se


  There are probably two cathegories of dropouts. Due to
the increasing popularity of the Judges, there are many
occasional players that try the game and then quit 
because they don't like the game or as it is played. I
don't think that they have done anything wrong. We
have to accept them. The other cathegory is the players
that quit the games they lose and continue to play in
others. I don't know how many they are, but they exist.

  I will, unless I don't get massive protests, post the
whois-files of the dropouts in the games I moderate. I 
don't really like it it that much, but before someone 
invents a better method it can as well be tested.

  I will be very careful, because I don't want
to harm innocent players, who for some reason couldn't
reach their account. 
  
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:47:42 EST
Reply-To:     Nick Fitzpatrick <nick@SUNBURN.UWATERLOO.CA>
From:         Nick Fitzpatrick <nick@SUNBURN.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject:      Washington Judge is down

Yes, as many of you may have noticed (or even commented, my News feed is
slow today).  The Washington Judge is down, do not panic.

If you owe the judge orders, send them in, it will process all back mail
(which will probably take it many hours), before starting its abandonments!

The cause of the outage is not known, however apparently Ken Lowe was
working on it last night (Tuesday), and might have left something
turned off . . . .

Ken has yet to login today, and therefore we will just have to wait until
he shows up.

Nick
,
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:        UK.AC.LEEDS.GPS; 27 JAN 93 19:27:47 GMT
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:26:31 GMT
Reply-To:     amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK
From:         amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK
Subject:      Re: COMPLETED GAME

> Wow, I had no idea how disparate the results between the US and British
> hobbies were on Wins vs. Draws.  There is NO way that many wins would
> be recorded... probably more on the order of 1/3 as opposed to 2/3.

Don't forget that many of those games were in the 1970's when the British
Hobby was very young and standards of play were low.  I had some interesting
stats (which I sent Danny Loeb) which showed how the number of games finishing
in a win varied with year: there is a definite trend downwards!

> Most of these games were played under a no standby policy, of course,
> which dramatically improves chances for victory.

Not really true for this sample of games though, British zines only stopped
using standbys circa 1978/1979 so many of these games will have had SBs in
them.

> I don't know where
> you'd find it, but it would be good to put a US chart in here.

I think that there is a chart along similar lines in GGTD, I shall try
and look tonight.  A comparison of US/UK/Email games would be interesting.
I think that Steve Heinowski produced a survey for 1980's games when he was
BNC, but I don't have my copies of Everything with me in Leeds so I can't
check on this.  Heinowski seems to have been the last.... the last productive
BNC in the States.

> PS: Busy little beaver aren't you??

I've got to do something whilst my programs are running! 8-)

> PPS: I'd love to see the A-Z in toto at some point.

Well at the moment you can download it from the EFF JUDGE, I'm wondering about
the merits of mailing it out to rgd to ensure more people know about it.

Unless there are (m)any objections I'll mail the first two parts out tonight.

Mark
From: msluyter@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Michael Sluyter)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Yes, I'm clueless but interested....
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:24:07 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas

Greetings,
I'm interested in how the whole Diplomacy via e-mail thing works.  If
there's a FAQ for this group, if someone would simply mail me the location
it would save bandwidth, etc... Otherwise, I'd be interested in joining a
game, but don't really know how to go about it.  

Mike Sluyter
msluyter@ponder.csci.unt.edu

P.S.  Does anyone out there have a gif of the map for the basic game and a
set of rules in electronic form?
From: jggoslin@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Gorilla Welfare)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Openings in MORTIBUN
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:13:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: vela.jggoslin.727899195
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.

Well, lesse now... We have not one, but TWO abandoned countries in
game Mortibun on the EFF judge.  England and Russia have been
abandoned and italy is in CD.  So sign up for alternates!  Both
countries are in a relatively good position, and I can't figure out
for the life of me why they dropped out.

at any rate.

give a list of mortibun if you want to see the exact position.

Jeff Goslin
Master
Mortibund
From: gregt@carson.u.washington.edu (Greg Tanner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: New EFF game for *Dedicated* players
Date: 26 Jan 1993 18:54:05 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

To All Dedicated Diplomacy Players:
***********************************

I've received an o.k. to start up a new game on the EFF judge.  It will be
a Standard variant with white press, but the signup procedure will be a
little different.  You won't find this game with a "list" command.

It seems to me that there's entirely too many players abandoning their
positions in other games, so I've set the dedication level to -10 to
allow only new and dedicated players to join.  

In addition, I'm giving preferential signup to anyone who has a dedication
rating of over 100, anyone who is a moderator, or anyone who takes over
an abandoned position in any game on any judge.  You'll still need to meet
the -10 dedication level, though.

If you fit these catagories, and want to play Diplomacy with people who
will probably :-) stick with your game, sign up!  Just send me an e-mail
at gregt@u.washington.edu, and I'll tell you where to sign on.

GregT
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: mfassben@ucs.indiana.edu ()
Subject: Re: Dedication ratings
Followup-To: rec.games.diplomacy
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:21:51 GMT

	Is there any way to apply the dedication points earned on one judge to the
other, or do you just start from scratch when you begin on the new judge?
				Thanks,		
								Michael Fassbender
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:35:15 MST
Reply-To:     S9IK9@STARBURST.USCOLO.EDU
From:         S9IK9@STARBURST.USCOLO.EDU
Subject:      annoying waste of bandwith

i have just unsub'd from this list due to the influx of 1 or 2 people who
insist on placing 8 or more back to back messages in one day.  i cannot
tolerate this anal-retentive behavior, and am forced to leave the list.  I
was forced to do the same thing from the gurps list and the ad&d list.  if
things go back to a quiet 4-8 messages a day, could somebody let me know
because i would be happy to come back.  right now the 10 - 15 a day is
more hassle than it is worth.  i have sent notes to the worst offenders nicely
asking them to limit their posts, but to no avail.  the worst thing that is
going on here is replies being sent to the list when a private response would
have sufficed.

mike magnuson
s9ik9@starburst.uscolo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: nautilus@lachesis.acm.rpi.edu (John M. Twilley)
Subject: Argh!  Help with Judge retreat moves?
Organization: The Voice of Fate
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:33:44 GMT

I am having troubles with making teh Judge retreat my
pieces -- could someone please help me out?

Thanks.
Jack.
-- 
John M. Twilley             | It's only premarital sex if 
nautilus@acm.rpi.edu        | you're going to get married.
twilley@dewey.nusc.navy.mil |                --anonymous
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: ericg@getafix.cs.uoregon.edu (eric leander gorr)
Subject: Re: Improper Behavior
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:07:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.092829.19032@fuug.fi> an7347@anon.penet.fi (Cane Boy) writes:
>
>There is a certain player, X, who is involved in multiple games; this
>player threatens to turn on player Y in one game, B, if player Y
>doesn't do what player X wants in another game, A.
>
>Person X: you know who you are.
>
>I think this sort of behavior is absolutely improper and
>reprehensible.  

I agree totally.  Although, there probably isn't much to can do about it,
except announce to all players in both games, and use this as a reason to 
destroy person X....
From: stapleton@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Dr. Ross Alan Stapleton)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Messages from Master
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:40:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: bpavms.26JAN199310400784
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona MIS Department
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In one of the games I'm playing, which permits grey press, I decided (as a
first time judge user) to test it out, sending grey messages separately to
two neighbors, hinting at concern, blah, blah.   As I'd never used it
before, however, I first tried a test message, sent as a grey note, and
sent ONLY TO MYSELF, signed in my power's name.   That seemed to work as
advertised, and I sent the two other messages without signature.

HOWEVER... in a broadcast message, year-end summary, the game master
discussed the whole affair openly, e.g., identifying me as the author of
the notes, commenting on the silliness of putting one's own name in a grey
note (despite the fact that this was sent only to myself); is this ethical?
It seems like a gross violation of the spirit of benign management...

Ross
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: jek@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (James E. Kittock)
Subject: Re: Solution for Dropouts?
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:46:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.183836.21309@midway.uchicago.edu> bitn@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>I'm not sure if anything like this would work or not, but I think it
>would at least deter the people who drop out because their in a
>"bad position", which I'm sure is the majority of dropouts.  This is the
>worst problem in computer diplomacy -- we really have to think of
>SOMETHING that will change the escalating trend of dropouts.

Yet another idea is to have a computer dummy used for
all CD countries.  It would be sort of like NMR, except
the computer would do better than just holding.

Obviously, it would be better to have a diplomat than a
pure tactician, but it would certainly be EASIER to
write a tactician!

The main advantage of this over, say, a Master
determining the moves is that they would be more
consistent from game to game.  Of course, this is also
a disadvantage!

--james
-- 
 james kittock :: stanford cs grad student :: duke '92 :: go blue devils!!
 "Adaptation is a recursive process in living systems." -- Alex. M. Andrew
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar)
Subject: Judge updated and mapit updated
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:26:02 GMT


Judge modifications -

	Added new info and index files for the map command.
	Added Ken Lowe's ml_date.c fix.

	get uudip.tar

Mapit modifications -

	Added my fix for the Off Board C problem. (I started running into
		it myself, prompting me to fix it.)
	Added Richard Nash's fixes to make the PostScript compliant with the
		standard.


	get mapit.uue
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar)
Subject: Re: Maps for any game (Addition to map command)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 12:52:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.103928.6197@infodev.cam.ac.uk> Neil.Dodgson@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>Russell Vincent writes:
>>I have made an addition to the MAP command on the Durban Judge.
>>
>>You can now send a LIST output of any game (on any judge) and it will 
>>produce a map of that game for you.
>
>I tried this for CHAOS games `everyone' on the eff judge and `iona' on
>the washington judge.  They came back perfect (apart from there being
>too many powers to list on the page in `everyone' :-)
>
>Trying "map everyone" on the eff judge itself produces a blank map.

  I don't have Russell's mods to support mapping Chaos games, though the
version of mapit at EFF does support that. (At least that's what I think
is going on without checking.)

  I am somewhat reluctant to support this option on the EFF judge. It could
potentially add a lot of load to the machine. It's hardly overloaded most
of the time, but there are moments, and I don't want to stress it any more
than I need to. However, I'll consider it if people really want it.

-David




Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy