HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: doane@helios.us (Jay Doane)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: HERO attributes
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:52:46 GMT
Organization: /u/doane/.organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: jsalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu's message of 21 Aug 92 19:57:02 GMT


joshua salter writes:
>	    Has anyone ever split DEX into Agility, Dexterity, and Reflex,
>    as well
>    as dividing Perception from Intelligence?

Yes. I did exactly that, much along the lines of Harnmaster. Only in
that system, Perception is split into 4 (count 'em 4) different
characteristics. Incidentally, I'm not using HERO, but more of a
severly mangled RuneQuest.

Jay Doane	doane@helios.ucsc.edu
From: darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:29:49 GMT
Organization: Bradley University

I use both, as a GM.  As much as is possible, when dealing with
players characters with free will, I try to have the plot already
taken care of in my head, and a few likely courses charted out in
advance.  This aids in keeping consistency.

However, I certainly don't try to 'map every room' as it were.
That's rather a bit counterproductive, and entirely too time
consuming.  And if the players do something that surprises me,
I'll wing it.  If I have to, I'll delay them with some
game-related activity, or unexpected opportunity while my mind is
scheming in the background to figure out what I'll do next.
--
"Just because it is fall break does not mean you can go home and have fun."
          -Dr. In Soo Ahn, 10-07-91
John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu
From: mosson@reseau.Berkeley.EDU (Groupe ELEVES)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Diceless or Senseless?
Date: 14 Aug 92 08:39:29 GMT
Reply-To: mosson@reseau.Berkeley.EDU (Groupe ELEVES)


In article <1992Aug6.031804.1190@news.unomaha.edu>,
PCHEM14@Zeus.unomaha.edu (FALL88) writes:

> Separating character and player knowledge just doesn't work, even in the most
> experienced groups.  It's so hard to react like you didn't know such
and such.
> I have found that the only way to alleviate this problem is to make character
> knowledge = player knowledge as much as possible.  Thus, I think
diceless role-
> play is not all it's cracked up to be.
> 
> -james

  I think you're wrong. I've played in a frpg campaign a few years ago,
for one year. We
never had a look at our character sheet, we didn't know how good we
were. We just knew
that we were used to something, or not. All other knowledge came from
the game sessions.

  As for character generation, it was really simple ( for the players ):
you just told
the GM all the things you wanted your character to know, in order of
preference. That
was all.

  It worked really well. And it was VERY fun to play.

  So the solution is that the player must be denied any knowledge? Not
necessarily. In
usual game sessions, we know many things our characters don't, and it
runs smoothly. And
as long as AMBER and stuff are concerned, good stuff doesn't mean the
character doesn't
run into dangerous opponents. It only means he/she has a margin of manoeuver.

  I tell you, it doesn't guarantee immunity... Try it.

								Redwing.
From: batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: FRP goals versus GMing
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:12:48 GMT

millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes:

>I look at the two lists, notice how few of my FRP-related goals I get
>out of GMing and wonder how to improve things.

>How do other GMs handle it? What do you want to get out of roleplaying?

My experience is there are Players and there are GM's. Players can GM, and
GM's can play, but ultimately, they know what they are best at, and what 
they enjoy.

I personally enjoy GMing much more than playing, although I do play from
time to time. When I GM, I also get to role-play the NPC's which is nice,
but best of all is trying to work out what is going on at any one point.

I never know how something ends, until it does. And I love that.

Mad Chris.
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Astral Adepts
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:43:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: splinter.RATINOX.92Aug20174340
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu's message of 20 Aug 92 18:50:40 GMT
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]

>>>>> "LW" == Lester Ward <ward1@husc8.harvard.edu> writes:

LW> Using SRII rules, my AA (with 6 Int and 6 Magic) will get an average of
LW> 35 for an initiative roll.

How does this compare with, say, a cybered-up Samurai or a more
"conventional" shaman or hermetic?

--Rat

||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
                                                   __        ___ 
Richard Pieri, Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat/   | /| / /   | The Worlds
Internet: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu   /__  |/ |/ / /| | Welfare Works
    UUCP: ...!northeastern.edu!meceng!ratinox  /   | /| / / / | | Association:
  BITNET: UA_RLP@NUHUB{.BITNET}               /__  |/ |/ / /  | | I will solve
  USNail: 14 Westdale RD  Holbrook, MA 02343 /   | /| / / /___| | any problem
 ICBMnet: 42 deg 1 min N, 71 deg 0 min W    /    |/ |/ /_//_____| for you.
From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:36:31 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug20.060030.27622@tronsbox.xei.com>, dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:
>In article <4781@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>|I grant you this is a Schroedinger's Cat universe we're running here.  If you
>|don't look there's nothing there.  If you do there is, or you know there's
>|nothing.  In either case, the end result is the same _as_far_as_the_players_
>|know_or_care.  

>	Not so.  I've been in games where the GM was making it up as he went
>along, and in only one case was I unable to tell.  That one case was a BBS
>game, so I didn't have access to the usual subtext of conversation.  In that
>case, I just thought it was an exceptionally bad scenario....

Being able to tell is not the same thing as having it make a difference.  In
your case it sounds like, I'm sorry to say, bad GM'ing.  Somebody once said
that no one has ever invented a programming language in which it is the least
bit difficult to write bad programs, and it is also true that no one has ever
invented a style of GM'ing in which it is impossible to GM badly.

Improv _requires_ an ability to remember, or keep good notes, or whatever,
in order to remain internally consistant.  If one particular floorboard
is loose, fine.  But if they come back six months later and can't find
that loose floorboard, the conclusion the players will draw is not that
the GM forgot that it was loose - after all, _they_ remembered - but that
someone fixed it.  If that becomes a significant datum, then you jolly well
have to come up with a darn good reason to explain it - and do it in context,
too.  Good improv GM's can do this with facility.  Bad ones make it _look_
like they are making it up as they go along.

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
How about we all do something reasonable?  I bet that'll confuse 'em!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: Gurps Supers is still broken : was Re: Best Super system
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:27:20 GMT

laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) writes:

>The "crock" is that ambushes in Champions are covered by a completely
>unrealistic rule that for some reason ambushers do twice as much (stunning)
>damage as they would normally do, with the same weapons, and that, even
>weirder, weapons that do twice as much stun damage don't have their body
>damage likewise increased.  I suppose Champs needs something like this
>since without this "crock" the rules don't model ambushes well at all,
>since you just end up with one normal round of attack, which doesn't
>normally mean that much in Champs.  But arbitrary rules like this in games
>make me a bit leery.

Hmm. Is it easier to take a punch you know is coming, or one that totally
surprises you?
If you really want the body increased, increase it..but dead people isn't
typical superguy genre.

>I still don't see much of a difference between the way Champions and GURPS
>with the cinematic options differ in modeling an ambush, aside from Champ's
>double stun damage, but I guess that's there to counter Champ's tendency to
>make PC's which can't be knocked out in a single attack.

The genre is oriented toward characters who can't be taken out with one
punch. Even when the badguys ambush someone in your average comic, the
hero's don't go down right away.

>I guess we disagree.  I would rather that the players "got with the genre"
>and did things which are appropriate to the genre than the system warp its
>rules in an attempt to force the players to do the right thing.  In my
>experience, players who are straight out told that, for example, they're
>playing comic book good-guys who don't shoot to kill, play along, whereas
>players who are forced by unrealistic rules (e.g. ambushes do double
>damage) end up sitting around making fun of the rules.  Your mileage
>obviously differs...

Well, the reason I think HERO works better for Supes is that it is damn tough
to kill anyone even if you try. If the GM limits the KA's, then you won't
see a lot of dead people even if the players go all out. GURPS seems to make
people run at half throttle to avoid killing someone.

Axly

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: bell@cezanne.cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: HERO's cheesy $ flow cost...
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:47:21 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <Bt90sn.Krw@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> jsalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joshua salter) writes:
>	Why does HERO allow someone to be fabulously wealthy for 20 cp, yet
>make an AK-47 cost 5 points as a power?

The best answer for this I know of (I may have come up with it myself, but
perhaps not) is to consider all superheros as having the unmentioned disad,
Superhero mindset, which means that the character dislikes using weapons
etc. outside of his personal set of nifty powers.

Nothing beats a good rationalization, huh?

   -Andrew Bell
bell@cs.unc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin)
Subject: Re: Diceless or Senseless?
Reply-To: goodwin@orionsci.UUCP (Ben Goodwin)
Organization: Orion Scientific, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:47:20 GMT

In article <BsusBD.Eys@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:
[snip]
>dies. End of series. Not too satisfying to our average SciFi reader.

Re: this idea that Benedict should have won.

Hey Axly, you're being obtuse!  Nuff said.

Oh, you're right.  I shouldn't have assumed you hand't read it.  I should
have just assumed you're being contrary and obtuse.  Next time I will.

-- 

-Ben
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: singley@helix.nih.gov (Erick D. Singley)
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Organization: (National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD)
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:46:09 GMT

This is not what people are claiming to do. One side gets along nicely doing
his planning on the spur of the moment (at the expence of props and some
player leading of plot) and he other side gets along nicely having all aspects
of his section of the world well defined in every fluid state of life that
the characters encounter (at the expence of missed ideas that GM might have
missed in planning and some player frustration of not finding all the clues
they might need).  These are GMs that have both posted great plot-lines
and descriptions of events- and they still seem to have PCs that came back!

Different strokes for differnt folks- but I welcome the differnt viewpoints!
Makes my own campains have a bit more lee-way to please both the players and
myself.  Thanks for the thread!

Erick
From: holmes@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Krishgan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Questions from the Minotaur (Part X)
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:14:21 GMT
Organization: the Night Crafters Associated Press

Regarding the Minotaur's Questions-

->>>>>[I liked 'em this time, but found a series of questions on my own, but
  first to yours....

  1.  Drone Ranges is usually limited by power/fuel.  You need to do a bit
     of math when figuring that sort of thing out.  Also remember, drones
     have -modes of operation- and depending on the mode, is the rate of
     consumption.

     As a note, one of the -best- things I have ever done for a drone is
     modifiy the thing for GridLink access.  Ever see a Snooper drone going
     down a Freeway doing 50?  Now how about doing 50 (SR speeds) and 
     going from the Southern Barrens to the Northern Everett Docks...

  2.  The Clout spells target of 4 is -technically- a melee related attack.
     I think the idea of -targetting- the spell would be a bit extreme,
     as it says that -most- spells are not -aimable-.  If you wanted to do
     so, that would be left up the GM Judgement Calls.

  3.  Phys Ads and Astral Perception.  Steve, read CAREFULLY in the books.
     It says that a Physical Adept with Astral Perception can engage in
     Astral Combat, it even gives some changes in the rules where these
     guys can fight.  Now as for the Dispelling, that is a GM Judgement
     Call thing again.  If they learned Sorcery, I would say, sure, but
     I think that rule is changing in my games this fall...

  4.  Splitting Dice in Combat....hmmmm....this is a touchy situation.
     Technically, using -pure- mechanics, if an attacker were to split
     his attacks, it would make sense to have his -effective skill- at
     -that- attack be lowered.

     But, going on the idea of actual -concentration-, trying to attack
     more than one person means the skills is being pressed, but not
     actually -seperated- per se.  In this case, no, the defenders target
     numbers would NOT change.

  But that is what I know for now.]<<
    -Keith
From: jdale@cats.ucsc.edu (Jonathan Dale)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 13 Aug 92 06:53:10 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


I'd say I use advance preparation 90% of the time and improvisation about
60% of the time.  Wait! you say, 60+90=150%, that can't be right.  Well, my
party was so obtuse and oblivious, about half of my preparations went unused...
Maybe I shouldn't bother preparing so much material!  (They were almost all
novices, but still! If _you_ realized an NPC ally was actually a demon, would
_you_ ignore it and not mention it to anyone else?  There was more...)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: lev0@quads.uchicago.edu (Ron Levy (Armchair))
Subject: Re: Sorcery and Amber
Reply-To: lev0@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Worshippers of Yig
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:16:28 GMT


>When I created my character, I spent most of my points on getting ranked in
>attributes (1st in Warfare and Endurance, 2nd in Strength). I also took
>Pattern Imprint, an artifact, and good stuff.

Sounds very solid to me.  And quite powerful.

> I thought this would be an average player character. Wrongo.

Better than average in my book.  There isn't a player character in my
game with Good Stuff.

>The other characters in my party took things such as logrus mastery, sorcery,
>and power words, accepting Amber or even chaos rank in attributes. Next to
>them, I feel like I can't do anything except hit things with a sword. (which
>was kind of the point of the character)

Ooo ick, Power Words. :) On the primary scale, defending yourself
against Sorcery and Logrus with Pattern shouldn't be too much
difficulty.  Just make sure they never FINISH those long lynchpins,
and you'll be fine.

> Am I just being cranky because the other characters get to do neat and arcane
>things?  Could I be doing more with Patern Imprint than just shifting shadows?
>(I've tried reading up on it, but the other abilities that come with Pattern
>Imprint seem difficult to incorporate into playing).

A little preparation and Pattern Imprint (or Trumps and Trump Defense) can
make a lot of Logrus and Sorcery ineffective.  You're first in warfare, so
you should be prepared.

Don't just hit things with a sword.  Shoot them with a bow.  Perform
alchemical experiments to discover harmful acids, and other useful
things that will work in Amber.  Always have an edge.  Be sure to keep
huge shadow armies, navies, shock troops, and similar things handy.
They CAN come in useful, if only as a distraction.  Especially against
people who are Amber or chaos ranked in warfare or strength.

Finally, the greatest hint of advice to any in all Amber games:
SCHEME.  As the physically toughest, you own a dangerous commodity.
People want you on their side, and they should be giving you things
and information.  Any side without you on it should lose.  Play
factions.  Demonstrate to your enemies just HOW fast you can dispatch
a powerful sorceror, and their little hearts will beat a Trump mousetrap
to your door.

There is a problem, however..  to my mind there seems to be two kinds
of Amber games.  The 'plotting' kinds, and the 'save the multiverse
from hideous threats' kind.  Now, in the 'save the universe' kind,
the players sort of hang together, while in the 'plotting' kind there's
less of that.  It would be sort of annoying if the multiverse was
destroyed just because of someone's backstabbing, but that would be a
typical Amber outcome...

-- 
Snake Owner's Safety Tip #3: 
	Never, EVER say, "Do da wittle snakie-wakies wanna come out to pway?"
anywhere near their cage.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: esper@cs35b.cs.umn.edu (Dave Sherohman)
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:50:54 GMT

I think I'd fall into the 90% (maybe more) improv category.  I come up with
some basic ideas for plotlines, write up NPCs that I think are likely to
become involved (including possibly some the PCs will never meet - I like to
know as much as possible about the people behind the scene even if the players
don't even know there _is_ someone behind them) and map out anyplace where I
expect to need a map (these places are few and far between).  Right now I'm
running a WFRP adventure from a general idea of plotline, 1.5 pages of stats
and notes on about 8 NPCs, and improv.  I'm also putting together full stats
for some potential mentors for the PCs, since they're likely to change classes
soon, and a dark elf necromancer/demonologist to hang out in the background
and orchestrate plots against them.

esper@ima.umn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: braca2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (BRAY CHRISTOPHER)
Subject: Re: Rolemaster in Europe
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 07:15:00 GMT

A game has been released in Australia recently (about 1 year ago) which 
has been cited as a french roleplaying game.  The name is, I think, Trauma
and the idea is a contempary setting in which the players try and 
actually put themselves onto paper.

Never played it but those who have seem to enjoy it very much.  Anyone
else heard of it?

hook
'Always shoot them in the knees ...  second.
 That way it makes it seem that you'd shot them there first, and that they'd
 kept coming.'
From: skeksis@pdrome.UUCP (Clayton Miner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Regarding Star Wars (was Re: regarding RIFTS)
Date: 7 Aug 92 11:46:23 GMT
Organization: The PowerDrome BBS [(716)825-3614 CNet]

Okay, so we solved the same problem (stormtroopers are bad shots) a little
differently.  If you read the rules the stormtroopers are supposed to the creme
of the military, and yet they are awful, so I changed them to have the same
stat base as the players (18 dice worth) and start them out at a 5d blaster
skill.  I also negated the dex penalty for their rahter wimpy armour (dex
penalties start comming in at heavy stuff).  Once you add inthe rules for
co-ordinated skills and command personnel, then the stormtroopers start
becoming a little more serious.  I am not saying that my players cannot deal
with the stormtroopers, as you said the players usually have a better dodge
than the troopers, but on the other side of the scale my players are not up on
tactics at all which gives the troopers a tremendous 'practical' advantage.
 
Skeksis
Organization: Electrical & Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 03:28:45 -0400 
From: Stephen Alexander Racunas <sr26+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: AMBER: game loc.

Hello.

Does anyone know of an AMBER campaign going on in the Princeton, NJ area?
Or, a group of people who might be interested in starting a game...
Please send email if you know of one, or are interested in forming one.

Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Subject: Re: Gurps Supers is still broken : was Re: Best Super system
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:35:55 GMT

dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:
>jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
>|	Champions ambushes are quite nasty due to the x2 STUN multiplier. 
>|Good chance that a number of people will be knocked out by the first shots 
>|as a result - if they are killed or seriously wounded here then much more 
>|force was used than neccessary to take them out. After that point, the 
>
>	Not from the ATTACKER'S point of view! 
>You have to crock it in Hero too;
>why don't the villains just kill everyone once they're knocked out?  

	It is not solely a 'genre convention' that even criminals are not 
all bloodthirsty killers. By this train of logic, normal criminals should 
kill all the cops they can - they don't. Even anti-social types will 
often have an aversion to senseless waste of life: and will use only enough 
force to get the job done. This will include weapons sufficient to ensure 
defeat of the opposing forces - stun weapons would only be used if using 
them results in just as sure a win as normal weapons. 

	The difference in the system is that Champions makes ambushes 
effective without making them neccessarily more deadly - becuase the STUN 
damage is doubled but not the BODY. Yes, if the villians are bloodthirsty 
then you have to 'crock' it to let the PC's survive, but if not, then 
just let them strike full force at the PC's. The PC's will be knocked 
out most likely, but will take no more BODY damage than from a non-ambush 
assault. 

>
>|The question is, given an *average* situation, what will happen. 
>
>	An ambush is not an average situation -- it is a planned encounter.
(Thus the GM can take steps to influence the outcome.) (Paraphrase)

	The average situation involves no combat or superheroics at all - 
and is most likely walking down the street or something. I meant the 
average ambush situation. 

	I find manipulating the system to often be much preferrable to 
manipulating characters' actions and otherwise contriving situations. If 
you want to let your PC's live where they realistically should not, then 
I think it is probably best to use a non-realistic damage system. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "Remember: a running man may slit a thousand
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | throats in a single night."
Columbia University         |                    - Klingon proverb