HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:54:04 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Western Geo. - Div of Western Atlas Intn'l Inc., Houston, TX

In article <1992Oct08.223138.26172@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
>In article <1518@airgun.wg.waii.com>, miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114) writes:
>|> If a church member does something charitable, his church is doing something charitable,
>|> because the church is its members; no more, no less. One does not say, "okay, everybody,
>|> this charitable thing I'm about to do has nothing to do with my church."
>
>Are you saying that you wouldn't be charitable if your church didn't
>make you?
>
No. I guess I wasn't clear. When I said "one does not say..." I didn't mean it was
forbidden or taboo or something. I was trying to convey that Christianity is a way of life,
not something one does for a day and then hangs up on the wall for a while until he gets
back to it later.

I get the impression that you think that, as a member of the church, one is required to
put money in the collection plate, and is required to participate in helping others. He is
certainly encouraged to do so, but is in no way required to. That sort of thing is between
him and God. If we had no choice, what meaning would it have?
>
>|> Maybe not enough non-itemizers were using it to justify it. Maybe in their efforts to simplify
>|> the tax return, they axed it. Besides, anybody can itemize if they want to. 
>
>If your itemized deductions are less than the standard deduction,
>you'll pay more tax if you itemize.  If you take the standard
>deduction, you won't get to deduct your charitable contributions. 
>This wasn't the case before 1986 or so.
>
I guess you're referring to "anybody can itemize"? But didn't they raise the standard
deduction? 
 
You asked why they removed it, and I was simply trying to think up some possible
reasons. I suppose you were trying to say the Fed decided that it wasn't getting a 
good return from the charitable contributions that non-itemizers were making, so they
took it away. Is that what you meant?

If so, I don't think it proves that charitable contributions do not benefit the government.
Is that actually the reason it was taken away?

Anyway, it's a shame they took it away. It's more difficult to be charitable, should you
be the non-itemizing type.
--
Griff Miller - miller@monarch.wg3.waii.com - My opinions are mine, not Western's.
  "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom 
   and discipline."   - Proverbs 1:7
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: BullShit
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:58:21 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              The opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article <1992Oct12.140734.16084@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:

>>>      John believes in abortion, believes that productivity in the U.S.
>>>is faltering, and Clinton is our man.  He is creating a net-roots support
>>>for these beliefs using being the Devil's Advocate (which is why he wants
>>>sources, but produces few himself:  He doesn't have to, and believes in the
>>>opposite).  If this is true, then John actually should be congratulated.
>>>He has successfully raised the conciousness of this portion of the net, as
>>>far as I'm concerned.

>>Again, if my arguments against abortion are "valid", it certainly isn't
>>because I believe abortion is right or wrong.  And as for not producing
>>sources, I've yet to see you produce a single one.  On the other hand,
>>I produced a total of five texts in addition to two from John Iacoletti.
>>All seven support the point I was arguing with Fred over.

>Well, all seven did that if you argue the way John does, by selective
>redefinition and reinterpretation of things.  All seven supported
>FIRST ELECTRICAL ACTIVITY in the brain, NORMALLY AROUND 8 WEEKS.  For
>John, this becomes "readable human brainwaves at 5 weeks".  He then
>went on to talk about when the foetus looked human (except that it
>didn't), reacting to 'sour' amniotic fluid (when it doesn't have taste
>buds), feeling pain and having human reflexes when the brain isn't
>even really functionally connected up yet, etc.


I was watching Dan Quayle and Al Gore go at it last night, and suddenly, I
had this feeling of dejavu  ;-)
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                       - Douglas Adams
  - Patrick Taylor                                       (Arthur Dent)
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                       "Don't let the .se fool you"
    or exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org, exu.exuptr@memo.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 22:08:14 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX

In article <21711@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
|> Homeopathy is "mumbo-jumbo" only because the current variety of medical
|> doctors say so.

I'm sure there is a big element of self-protection in the AMA, but you
have to give them some credit for intellectual honesty.  If homeopathy
is effective, it has yet to be proven.  Mumbo-jumboness isn't carved
in stone for all time.  If an idea has merit, it will be proven
eventually.

|> Right now - in this country - medical screwups are the
|> number one cause of death.  They account for about 600,000 deaths
|> annually.  The source for that amusing statistic is the NRA, I think.

With all due respect for the NRA, the National Center for Health
Statistics lists heart disease as the number one cause of death
(725,010 deaths in 1990).

|> Do you still think alleopathy(sp) is such a hot idea?

At least there are steps taken to show its effectiveness.  Homeopathy
is certainly safe (after all, you're just drinking water), but it
hasn't been shown to be effective.

|> Now, I don't know just how much truth there is to homeopathy, and I do
|> know that I think chiropractors are quacks, but there seems to be
|> something to chiropractic.

I also think chiropractors are quacks, along with acupuncturists,
osteopaths, and Christian Science "doctors".  There are people who
will swear by all of these, but what becomes quite clear is that in
many cases, if you expect to feel better, you will in fact feel
better. 

-- 
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
                "Fight the real enemy" -- Sinead O'Connor
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: AI (was: Re: Chinascam)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 19:45:26 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX

In article <1992Oct14.084645.16846@montagar.com>, davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) writes:
|> 	Depending on your point of view, that is not so radical a stance.
|> If you commit a felony, you are not longer able (legally, anyway) to purchase
|> a gun.  But isn't the right to bear arms one of your rights?

It's not quite the same thing.  The eighth amendment applies
specifically TO criminals.  It wouldn't make any sense to talk about
cruel and unusual punishment of a non-criminal.

-- 
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
"When you're following an angel, does it mean you have to throw your body off a 
 building?" -- TMBG
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Chinascam
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:31:16 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <RBH6RB3w165w@korova.uucp> popec@korova.uucp (Mr. Charlie) writes:
>Last month, an official Amnesty International report dealt with the 
>Torture and illegal detetion of Tibetians, and the mistreatment of the 
>Tibetian people by their Chinese masters.  Not a peep from Bush on this.
> He stillwants to give most favored trading status to China.

Amnesty International is practically worthless as an organization
dedicated to finding violations of "Human Rights".  For example,
murderers, in AI's view, have more rights than their victims.  Does
AI support capital punishment?  No.  Murderer's "Human Rights"? Yes.

As for MFN, MFN is a mis-nomer.  All it means is "we don't charge you
more at the border."  We argued MFN for China to death last year and
the conclusion was the NOT granting MFN to China would only result in
fewer jobs for Americans, less capitalist reform in China, and poorer
Sino-American relations.  By contrast, a total trade embargo against
Cuba has resulted in =ZERO= political change in that country.  And
we've been doing it for 30-some years.

>Iranscam.  There are notes from Weinberger now and notes from the Israeli 
>government as dealt with on Nightline last Friday.  And Schultze's 
>letter.  Lots of proof and credible if you don't go into neocon denial.
>I am sure it'll get worse as time goes on.

Again, the President has the Constitutional authority to do all of what
Reagan is accused of doing.  So far Iran-Contra has done nothing but
enrich the pockets of Washington lawyers.  The only reason for the
latest flurry of activity is that the statute of limitations just ran
out.  Oh, and Congress was thinking about getting rid of the "indepent
counsel" laws that have allowed Walsh to run amok for the last few years.

>Taxes - 
>  The Congress is the only one who can take us to war.  Look what 
>happened in Vietnam.  a 'police action'.

Actually, please do re-read that Constitution.  The President can start
a war, but it can't last forever - Congress has to appropriate the money
to continue it.  And Congress =did= appropriate the money ...

>Get a clue jerk.  Constitution indeed!

As long as you keep listening to Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, you will
keep mewling about anti-Constitutional conspiracies.
-- 
John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: Worker Productivity
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: usa,tx
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:03:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.082230.16834@montagar.com>, davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) writes:
> No, the answer is that per person we do not produce as much as the Japanese.
> That is not so bad for the Germans, who are doing well in the European region,
> and even abroad (where else can you get them nice German cars that so many of
> us American love?)  Since our products compete with the Japanese, within the
> U.S. as well as abroad, they have greater opportunity to get market share.
> We have been losing market share for too long, and we are getting behind.
 
Wrong.  American workers produce both more per work (per year) and more
per hour.  According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and
Development an American worker produced $45K of goods and services in 1991
compared to $37K for Germany and $34K for Japan.  
 
At the same time the US productivity figures are rising less than 1% a
year, while Japan's are increasing at greater than 3% a year.
Also, American industry's investment is considerable lower than other
countries, which means we can't expect that to improve much in the future.
 
Data quoted from October 17th issue of Fortune.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: The blame game
Date: 7 Oct 92 09:40:23 GMT
Distribution: usa,tx
Organization: Montagar Software Concepts, Plano TX

In article <21673@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
> In article <1992Oct5.102643.16802@montagar.com> davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) writes:
>>	I think per worker the Japanese are.  This is mostly because of an
>>almost religious dedication to the corporation, something which we don't
>>have anymore... (I've jumped jobs twice, so I plead guilty too...).
> 
> Nope, it's not just my musings.  American workers are #1 in per worker
> productivity (or something closely related to that ...)  We have been
> #1 for years and it hasn't changed recently.  In fact, a number of
> companies are now re-discovering this fact and bringing American jobs
> back to America.

(Listen up everyone, you might like this!)

	Do you have any reputable sources on this statement???

	I think the Prime Minister of Japan hit the nail on the head.  Does
this piss me off? Yes, but at ourselves, not him.  The truth hurts, don't it! 
Maybe that will wake us up and get us off our coffee breaks.  Get your Ego
(U.S. just *has* to be #1) out of your thought process for a little while.  We
are probably no higher than #2 or #3, and the jobs are being pulled from
countries much lower than that, not Japan.

	From my perspective, I don't see how workers are more productive
than the Japanese, when *OURS* go on strike for more pay!

> -- 
> John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
> Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
David L. Cathey		                |INET: davidc@montagar.com
Montagar Software Concepts              |UUCP: ...!montagar!davidc
P. O. Box 260772, Plano TX  75026-0772  |Fone: (214)-618-2117
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: Teacher Pay Redux
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:33:08 GMT

In article <21721@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
> It also doesn't include the value of job security.  Not being worried
 
I'm not so sure that's a given anymore with public school teachers.  I
know that there are plenty of small schools systems that have laid-off
teachers.  Even tenure for college professors is being challenged in
states like California.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:34:20 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Western Geo. - Div of Western Atlas Intn'l Inc., Houston, TX

In article <1992Oct07.234507.23650@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
>
>Actually most of those social services are government-funded, with the
>church *members* donating some of the labor.  What exact value-add the
>church itself provides is a mystery.
>
If a church member does something charitable, his church is doing something charitable,
because the church is its members; no more, no less. One does not say, "okay, everybody,
this charitable thing I'm about to do has nothing to do with my church." Everything a 
Christian does he does (ideally) as a member of the church.
>
>If it makes such good sense, why did the feds get rid of the
>charitable contribution deduction for non-itemizers?
>
I wasn't aware that they had done this. Do you mean 1040EZ filers only, or are you 
including people who file 1040s but do not itemize? 

Maybe not enough non-itemizers were using it to justify it. Maybe in their efforts to simplify
the tax return, they axed it. Besides, anybody can itemize if they want to. 
--
Griff Miller - miller@monarch.wg3.waii.com - My opinions are mine, not Western's.
  "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom 
   and discipline."   - Proverbs 1:7 
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell)
Subject: Re: Chinascam
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:52:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.154700.22089@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell) writes:

>Of course, as a businesswoman from Hong Kong put it: "If the prisoners
>produces high quality, they are whipped and beaten until they do..."

Astute readers will note that this sentence makes no sense.  Chalk it
up me thinking faster than I type. Suffice it to say that Chinese
prison workers are whipped and beaten if they don't produce high
quality work.
-- 
#      Rick Russell | TAMU Meteorology | wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu       # 
#     "I want to Krazy Glue my head to the bottom of a BIIIG           #
#      steel girder!" - Weird Al Yankovic                              #
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: The blame game
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: usa,tx
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:15:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.094023.16813@montagar.com>, davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) writes:
> 	From my perspective, I don't see how workers are more productive
> than the Japanese, when *OURS* go on strike for more pay!
 
No, the US is still more productive.  The only problem is that while there
is still significant growth in Japanese productivitity, US productivity is
relatively flat.  At this rate the Japanese will clearly catch up within
the decade.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: gun(s) for carry in a car
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Distribution: houston
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 12:28:33 GMT

In article <BvsCoC.CCw@rice.edu> kossack@qvi.com writes:
>	Well, considering that the police are unable to prevent violent  
>   crime from occurring, what is wrong with allowing citizens to carry 
>   tools that will improve their chances of surviving a criminal attack? 
>   After all, self-defense is a basic human right and to deny folk the 
>   ability to have the tools to exercise this right is unconscionable.  
>   Too, bearing arms is a Constitutional right, as is public assembly. 
>   Would you be so outraged if the police condoned the protests outside 
>   the dome during the RNC?  What if they condoned National Night Out?  

That's great, but it isn't a choice for the police to make. It's a choice
for the legislature or the courts. I think that's the main point.
-- 
Peter da Silva, Houston, TX            `-_-'
Segodnja volka obnimal?                 'U`
Du er ikke min vejviser. Min vejviser var tobenet.
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: Quality of Public Education.
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 15:02:14 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX

In article <1992Oct8.164405.7871@sun44.synercom.hounix.org>, mattair@sun44.synercom.hounix.org (Charles Mattair) writes:
[stuff that teachers do]

Yeah, but that's all part of being a teacher.  The question was, what
extra paperwork does the state require of teachers now, that
interferes with their ability to teach?  It sounds like mid-term grade
slips are the only thing.

-- 
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
                "Fight the real enemy" -- Sinead O'Connor
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: 9 Oct 92 13:17:23 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1519@airgun.wg.waii.com> miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114) writes:
>Christians want to teach others about Jesus, and are happy to see others
>accept Him into their lives. Yes. There is nothing wrong with that. If you
>have something or know something that brings you joy, you want to share it
>with others, don't you? Well, it's the same thing.

You will get a better reception to your postings if you hit the return
key every 72 columns or so.  Some of us read netnews from the console of
a virtual System/370 ;-)

Most Christian schools will take non-Christians.  This is a flaw in
John's argument against Christian schools receiving tax dollars.  I've
known a good many Jews who were educated in Catholic schools.  With New
Orleans having so damned many Catholics, many of the private schools
were ``Catholic''.  Certainly most of the best ones were.  My best friend's
younger brother was sent to Brother Martin High School because the public
schools in Jefferson Parish finally were too bad for him to attend the same
schools as his brothers and sister.  His family was decidedly Methodist.  A
close friend of mine who is Jewish attended Loyola, and so many Jews attend
Tulane (which I believe was founded by some Catholic group) that in New
Orleans we'd regularly call the school "Jew-lane".

Although those two are universities, the same is true for Brother Martin,
Holy Cross, Jesuit, etc.  Had I known that Jesuit wasn't a Catholic
conversion factory, I might have asked my parents to send me there instead
of running off to college after the 11th grade.  Jesuit students weren't
considered to be a bunch of geeky nerds for no reason ...

I suspect that ``conversion'' is a very low priority item since so many
students' parents aren't of the same religious orientation as the school
where the kids are sent.  Even amongst Catholics the views on contraception,
the infallibility of the Pope, etc. are not universally agreed upon.  You
really can't expect even a single church to be of one mind.
-- 
John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Xref: sparky tx.politics:6033 austin.general:3204
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,austin.general
Subject: School reform in Austin
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:44:46 GMT
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin

*12  A+ COALITION: AUSTIN PROGRAM LINKS PARENTS, KIDS
     A program in Austin, Texas, schools has shown increased test
scores, attendance, and improved discipline (Staff Reports,
AUSTIN AMERICAN-STATESMAN).  The A+ Coalition, a partnership
between Austin Schools and the IBM Corporation, turned to the
author Dorothy Rich for help.  Rich stressed parental involvement
and concern in "MegaSkills:  How Families Can Help Children
Succeed in School and Beyond," in 1988.
     Rich and the coalition worked together to create a program
based on parents using time at home to reinforce what their
children learned at school.  During the 1990-1991 school year,
the Coalition instituted a MegaSkills program with more than
1,000 parents participating.  A recent study of 1,196 students
involved has shown improvement.  "We support the program
wholeheartedly ... it has improved children's behavior ..and
achievement," said principal Ed Leo.
     The Austin school district will increase the number of
schools offering the MegaSkills program to 60 this year.  Jo Ann
Farrell, coordinator of the MegaSkills program, hopes to see the
program in all 67 of the Austin elementary schools and some high
schools by the end of next year (10/9).


         THE NATIONAL UPDATE ON AMERICA'S EDUCATION GOALS
  An APN publication, supported by The Annie E. Casey Foundation
         and the Business Coalition for Education Reform

-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
 -If you vote against Bush, be fair and throw out Congressional incumbents too-