HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: guiyu@spectra (Kui Yu Chang)
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE 
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 08:30:33 GMT

(LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:

>
>I insulted your government, not your people.  And less of the "Godfrey" please,
   ========
>it's laurence or Dr. Godfrey if you prefer.
>
>Alright, you want to think of your government as your parent.  I didn't
>expect no hostile response - I expected precisely that.  It is extraordinary
           =======
>how far people will go to defend something that is transparently ludicrous.
>I wouldn't take offence at all if you insulted the British government, in fact
				       ========
>I would almost certainly agree with you. Even a supporter of the Tory goverment
>in the UK would not take offence, but he might argue with you.It is astonishing
>how successive the non-democracies of the world are in indoctrinating people
>and engendering unthinking loyalty of the sort you display.
>
>Laurence
>

It is astonishing that a civilized gentleman(?!) resorts to INSULT as a primary
form of critique.                                           ======

Have you being taught the basics of ETIQUETTE?
Have you being taught the basics of ETHICS?
Have you being taught the basics of COURTESY?

I do hope that discussions can be carried out in a PROFESSIONAL and SENSIBLE 
and CIVILIZED manner.

I do not know what you have being taught at University. It is a SHAME that   
a DOCTOR talks not much differently from a ROUGE.

If you want your VIEWS to be respected hear, please make yourself RESTPECTABLE,
or else we will just pass it off as some NOISE not worthy to RESPONSE to.

There are a myriad of other ways to CAPTURE attention, if that was your originalintent, and we were treat it with due respect provided that you BEHAVE yourself.

The difference between MAN & ANIMAL is that MAN can excercise RESTRAIN, hope youcan also. By the way, in the Orient we value our MANHOOD and will refrain from
doing things that resembles a DOG vigorously BARKING at the 1st INSTANCE it 
feel like it.

================================================================================
  _  __                    _ 		ADDRESS: CHANG Kui Yu
  _||__       _|_       | |_|			 2440 Date Street #1002
 |_ |__      __|__     \|/|_|			 Honolulu, HI 96826	
   |+---                | _|_			 U.S.A.	
   ||\/       _|_       / \ /
  \|L \      __|__     / \---		E-mail : guiyu@spectra.eng.hawaii.edu
================================================================================
From: fellow@cs.utexas.edu (Heng Wei Osbert Tan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE (sic)
Date: 7 Oct 1992 15:52:26 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: notrees.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Oct7.112115.13387@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>, jbfink@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Adder) writes:

> I want the freedom to think what I like and believe in whatever political 
> system I like without fear of being thrown in prison courtesy of the ISA.
> 
> I want the freedom to protest something which I think is wrong.
> 
> I want to be treated like an adult, not like some stupid kid.

I understand your concerned, and agree to some of your points. However,
do not confuse honest disagreement with insulting a country and their
people, just because you don't agree with their government's policies.
You didn't, but Godfrey did. It is NOT a fine line.

To draw an analogy, an American can choose to burn their flag just to
prove a point, but don't think ANY American will take it kindly when
someone else burn their country's flag. This is as simple as I can make
my point.

You can tell me what is wrong with my parent, but to insult them infront
of me and to expect no hostile response from me, is, either I am too stupid
to realise you were insulting them, or I am to afraid to response. We are
neither.

-Osbert



-- 
                                     _ _
---------------------------------ooo--U--ooo------------------------------------
fellow@cs.utexas.edu  Standard disclaimer applies. My opinions are, simply mine.
"heng2 mei2 leng3 dui4 qian1 fu1 zi3, fu2 shao3 gan1 wei2 ru2 zi3 nu2" Lu3 Xiu4
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan)
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE
Organization: Organised?  Here?  Hahahahahahahaha.....
	<1992Oct9.085246.13911@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
	<CLIPPER.92Oct9131037@grace.csd.uwo.ca>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:27:19 GMT

In article <CLIPPER.92Oct9131037@grace.csd.uwo.ca> clipper@grace.csd.uwo.ca (Khun Yee Fung) writes:

{most of over-reaction deleted}

   Facts? What facts? I see no facts covered by him. Now I can see using
   the London example is not a bad move at all. I was there for just a
   little time and can I then flaunt my experience there? No. He was in
   Singapore for how long? One year? How much does he know about
   Singapore? He can certainly talk about Singapore. Everybody can. But
   to firmly base one's opinion on a short visit is not wise.

"Short" is relative.  One year in Singapore is a pretty long time, especially
considering the small size of the country.  One year in, say,  the United
States, is short.

   P.S. Here is my position. The `silly laws' have nothing to do with
   whether Singapore is democratic or not. If you think Singapore is
   undemocratic, you have to do better and actually discuss the pertinent
   issues.  Having toilet attendants is no big deal. It does not prove
   anything.  Condescending remarks is not appreciated. Flaunting one's
   experience is silly.  Assuming everybody has the same sense of humour
   as you is insensitive.

Don't be so sensitive and defensive, for crying out loud.  Everybody has idiots
in government and we have our share in Singapore (maybe more than our share,
actually.)  



--
===============================================================================
Kok-Yong Tan, 			  	| My words are my own: 
Fixed Income Analytics Group, 	  	| My bosses know naught.
Merrill Lynch,			  	| Wherever they're sown,
World Financial Center, North Tower, 	| Just I should be sought.
New York, NY 10281-1315.	  	|		- K. Y. Tan, 5 Feb 1992
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
InterNet: kytan@fia.dmg.ml.com (Merrill Lynch)
	  75046.256@compuserve.com (CompuServe)
===============================================================================
From: yewhan@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Yew Han Hee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: The Commonwealth State
Date: 14 Oct 1992 07:58:44 GMT
Organization: University of Western Australia
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Lately, I read a very good translation on a teaching of Confucius, which
reflect his idea of the perfect society. I would like to post it to this
newsgroup, to share with all readers on the soc.culture.asean newsgroup,
and how ASEAN will be close to the Commonwealth State in the following
text. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"When the perfect order prevails, the  world is like home shared by all.
Virtuous and worthy men are elected to public office, and capable men
hold posts of gainful employment in society; peace and trust among all
men are the maxims of living. All men love and respect their own parents
and children, as  well as the parents and children of others. There is
caring for the old; there are jobs for the adults; there are nourishment
and education for the children. There  is a means of support for the
widows, and the widowers; for all who find themselves alone in the
world; and for the disabled. Every man and woman has an appropriate role
to play in the family and society. A sense of sharing displaces the
effects of selfishness and materialism. A devotion to public duty leaves
no room for idleness. Intrigues and conniving for ill gain are unknown.
Villains such as thieves and robbers do not exist. The door to every
home need never be locked and bolted by day or night. These are the
characteristics of an ideal world, the commonwealth state."

	From The Record of Rites, Book IX
	"The Commonwealth State"
	by Confucius.


Sincerely,
yewhan. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Yew Han Hee (Yao1 Han4)            yewhan@tartarus.uwa.edu.au
  University Of Western Australia    hee_y@dropbear.cs.uwa.edu.au
  Computer Science 2nd year          Tel: +61 (09) 389 1128
  Add: 3/70, Broadway, Nedlands, 6009 Western Australia, Australia.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                   Avoid all evils, Do all goods; 
        Cleanse your Heart, That's all the teaching of Buddha. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Xref: sparky soc.culture.asean:6971 soc.singles:27714 soc.couples:3936
From: mcsweinberg@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean,soc.singles,soc.couples
Subject: Re: Help-Views
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:11:33 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University

For an article to appear in my University paper I am looking for persons to
tell me about their naturalization and there feelings about voting in this
election and/or the right to vote.
 
 
Raina Weinberg
  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: Notebook Prices
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:49:29 GMT

Sutrisno (sutrisno@metz.une.edu.au) wrote:
: Hello,...
: 
: Does anyone know the prices for notebook computers in Singapore.
: I am looking for 386sx or 386dx.

The cheapest from Data Mini is S$1888 There used to be one from KT costing
$1700. Casings are similar for these 2 models, weight 2.2 kg with 40/60Mbyte
harddisk.
	The imported ones cost abouve $2000.

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
From: ag@gserv1.dl.ac.uk (Old Wolf)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Comment by Othman bin Ahmad
Date: 7 Oct 92 08:39:42 GMT
Reply-To: ag@gserv1.dl.ac.uk
Organization: Daresbury Laboratory, UK


> Only a jeweller know the quality of a jewel.

That is a very interesting comment, particularly as
it was placed amidst a discussion of politicians and
their "antics".

Your comment then would seem to suggest that all 
jewel thieves must be jewellers.

By analogy, ...

Anyone who understands politics must be a politician.
Anyone who understands human biology must be a doctor.

etc etc etc.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me Mann)
Subject: Re: Email address of MINDEF Recruitment center
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 20:16:42 GMT

In article <d&d1Hn8-5a@atlantis.psu.edu> K6K@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Kin W Koo) writes:
>In <1992Oct15.174428.19417@m.cs.uiuc.edu> chai@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>
>> jawahar@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Jawahar (HP India)) writes:
>> >Does MINDEF (Ministry of Defence)'s Recruitment center, Singapore have an email
>> >address ? Can anybody mail it to me ? 
>> >Thanks in advance,
>> 
>> I don't know about MINDEF's Recruitment center, but last time I was in
>> Singapore (this summer) my friend who's a programmer for MINDEF said
>> due to security considerations, MINDEF has not external email
>> capabilities at this point. (I'd asked him for his email address...)
>
>But according to the user list on technet's gopher server, there are a few
>MINDEF accounts on technet.

BUt these accounts on technet may not be that of the Recruitment 
Center, so Ian is not completely wrong.  Furthermore technet is
not part of MINDEF.  

-Mann
From: ag@gserv1.dl.ac.uk (Old Wolf)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE
Date: 14 Oct 92 09:57:56 GMT
Reply-To: ag@gserv1.dl.ac.uk
Organization: Daresbury Laboratory, UK


In article 92Oct9131037@grace.csd.uwo.ca, clipper@grace.csd.uwo.ca (Khun Yee Fung) writes:
>>>>>> On 9 Oct 92 08:52:46 GMT, ag@gserv1.dl.ac.uk (Old Wolf) said:
>
>[stuff deleted]
>
>oldwolf> Very neat reply. Excellent summary. Covers the facts well.
>
>What reply? That Singapore cannot have toilet attendants otherwise it
>is toilet patrols? That Britain can have it because you can criticise
>your government? I see no reply.

I was referring to Dr. Godfreys' reply concerning the UK govt. being
situated in a toilet, etc.. Most appropriate I thought.

>
>Summary? What summary? That he can change the direction of the
>discussion just because he likes it? In case you do care, which I
>doubt,

I do care, but I see no reason for a lack of humour.
You are far too sensitive about this.

 I stated the fact because I found it strange to have a glass
>window and office inside the toilet. I did not care a lot about the
>discussions about the toilet law. But since someone mentioned that he
>saw a toilet attendant in a Singaporean toilet, I just wanted to say
>that it was no big deal (go read the original message). 

There is no BIG deal, and I have read the original message.
I happen to think that it is an excellent idea to have toilet
attendants to keep the place clean, and prevent vandals from
running amock.

[Rest of bullshit deleted]

Your next article:

oldwolf> I do not think that Doc. Godfrey was disputing your
oldwolf> statement. He was trying to make a comical response.
oldwolf> However, if you feel the need for support, then I too have
oldwolf> also seen similar things in several places in London, and
oldwolf> occassionally in other cities in England and Wales. Haven't
oldwolf> seen such things in Scotland, but maybe I just haven't been
oldwolf> to the "right" toilets. Cannot comment on Ireland. Haven't
oldwolf> been there.

Comical response? I hope you do understand that many people don't
consider the accusation that one's country is not democratic a comical
matter. In my case, I consider that at least a serious matter.  With
or without a sense of humour, it is no humourous reading for them.
Just a laughing matter for him, you say?

If you had bothered reading an earlier response from me, it would
already be clear to you that I support Singaporeans, and the way
the govt works (in general).


And who told you I need support? I have been there. I have been in
washrooms with attendants in Singapore. What support do I need? That
washrooms have attendants and that is not a significant thing? I knew
that a long time ago, thank you very much.

Khun Yee


Have no fear, I will not be supporting YOU again.
From: songbac@coos.dartmouth.edu (Durian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Malaysia's Atom PC=M$1600
Date: 10 Oct 92 16:45:22 GMT
Organization: Big Green
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6FC7DC3BA015044@kip-sn-68.dartmouth.edu>
X-Xxdate: Sat, 10 Oct 92 12:32:03 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11

In article <1992Oct10.150611.3511@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> Othman Ahmad,
eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg writes:
>When I was in Malaysia many weeks ago I read in the papers that there are
>proposals from Uniphone and other companies for  a cheap PC for the
educatioanl
>market. The cheapest on offer is Atom M$1600. The reason quoted was the
>support cost. 

<Stuff deleted>

>	For price comparisons, I once say a S$300 transportable Pc 386 with
>512K ram, CGA Lcd display, 2 360K floppy disk, in Singapore. Maybe it
was on
>offer at that time but they claim to have them in large stock.
>
>From clarinet.streetprices, I saw 286 lap top with Hd for Us $600.
>
>I do not know the specs for Atom becasue of poor journalistic practices.

	I don't have too much to say about the support for Atom PCs. However, 
I think the Atom PCs run on a NEC V20 processors or something like that.  
I'll say M$1600 for that computer is definitely not cheap.  It will 
definitely be a joke for those students who already own acomputer at home 
to use these Atoms. (They are like from the time when atoms are still 
indivisible)  :-> 

Most people go for at least a 386sx in Malaysia now.  With the price of 
386s going down, I don't think the Atoms will be a choice in less than 
a year.  Our people in the education department really need to catch up 
with the computer world. 


Me.

from the Remote Pseudo Artic Town,
Hanover, New Hampshire.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: roland@cs.monash.edu.au (Roland Yap)
Subject: Re: Malaysian cookbooks
Organization: Computer Science, Monash University, Australia
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:28:28 GMT

C587307@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Theresa McConnell) writes:

>Hmm... could that be an authorized ASIAN edition which only can be sold in
>that region? I know for some text book published by Prentice-Hall is much
>cheaper in Singapore/Malaysia than in the States.

It looks exactly the same as the Australian one. Often special ASIAN editions
do say so and are printed on a different quality stock. From memory it was
not substantially different from the Australian price dollar for dollar and
given the exchange rate differential it was substantially cheaper.

Roland


----------------------------
Roland Yap                          Email: roland@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au
Department of Computer Science      Phone: +61 3 565 5186
Monash University                   Fax: +61 3 565 5146
Clayton
Vic 3168
Australia
From: ytay@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (AUS:Yian,Tay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.culture.asean.* newsgroups
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:22:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: aardvark.15OCT199213221987
Organization: University of Oklahoma - University Computing Services
Originator: news@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Oct14.132507.1@cc.curtin.edu.au>, rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift) writes...
>ytay@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (AUS:TAY,YIAN) writes:
>> In article <1992Oct10.055917.24767@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes...
>>>Mr Khoo Siau Cheng (iscksc@nuscc.nus.sg) wrote:
> 
>>>The current campaing is to encourage women to marry as early as possible,
>>>as early as a 4 year old!
>>                ^^^^^^^^^^^
>> 
>>     Is this another one of your deliberate mistake for readers to
>>     filter out or a fact??
> 
>Othman Bin-Head gets everything wrong in his much maligned English, Mr Tay.
                                                                     ^^^^^^^


I am not offend (but amuse) by this, but I just want to make something clear, 
I am a lady....  I wondered how many readers out there think I am a man...


yi-an...

> 
>I now propose that a call for votes be held to create a newsgroup called...
> 
>  soc.culture.asean.othman.binhead.mistruth.depository
> 
>where such mistruths can be crossposted to the world...
> 
>Or even alt.fan.othman.binhead.crap.crap.crap
> 
>Rod
>-- 
>|            . . .   . . . . .          "It leaves us galloping up Diarrhoea|
>|        +  +  +     +  +  +  +  +                  Drive without a saddle."|
>|    *   *   *       *   *   *   *   *                                      |
>|R    o    d         S    w    i    f    t        -- Kryten from "Red Dwarf"|
>+-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------------------+
>|  Curtin University of Technology  |  Perth  |  RSWIFTRW@cc.Curtin.edu.au  |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: A Puzzle : ): )
From: jbfink@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Adder)
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:35:55 -0500
Organization: I'm for Nixon!

> 
> 		kpurang
> 
> 		
> 		ps 	does anyone know the email address of
> 			the prime minister of singapore ?

Sure.  It's goh@istana.gov.sg

Give it a whirl!

adder
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ygoh@fraser.sfu.ca (Kelvin Goh)
Subject: Re: Satu Bangsa (Way to Forward)..
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:32:20 GMT

af620@yfn.ysu.edu (Andrew Tan) writes:

>In a previous article, subraman@andy.bgsu.edu (ANAND) says:

>>	How he is going to implement it? My doubt is and clarify me if I'm,
>>wrong, is that means we going to have one and only race race and not Malay,
>>Indian, Chinese races? Then what criteria will be used to distinguished 
>>between bumi and non-bumi? The only way that I could think of is by the
>>religion. If you are Muslim than you're a bumi else non-bumi. Am I right?

>How to achieve this goal? My $0.02 proposals:

>1. Get rid of the words BUMIPUTERA and Non-BUMIPUTERA, then we talk.

	What is the meaning of the word Bumiputera ? Does it mean 
	native to the land ? If this is so, isn't the Chinese who have
	been on Malay soil since the 16th century or the Indians
	with so many generations passed, Bumiputeras ? The
	Malays were immigrants, too, and they hold that the title
	Bumiputera.

	What I suggest is NO racial segmentation.... 

>2. Cross-cultural marriages. 

	Cross cultural marriges won't happen in large scale between 
	the non-Muslims and Muslims because the non-Muslims have to
	give up their religion. Now, MOST of the older generation Chinese
	and/or Indians would oppose such marriages. (Maybe even the 
	younger generation, too.)  	
	In Indonesia, Muslims can give up their religion when they
	marry a non-muslim. Why doesn't it happen in Malaysia ?		
	I may be wrong here but please correct me if I'm wrong. :-)


>  
>>Geeva Subramaniam
>>University Computer Services
>>Bowling Green State University
>>
>>
>>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: chai@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ian Chai)
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 23:17:49 GMT

godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
>Do you honestly thimnk that cleanliness, low crime, efficiency etc. are
>the result of the ban on chewing gum?

Of course. Everyone knows that delinquents chew gum (just watch American
TV) and gum chewing causes littering, killing and cavities.

8-)
From: hmeedin@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Take it as a joke
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:22:37 -0400
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University

In article <3335@peking.gdwb.oz.au>, mlt@gdwb.oz.au (Mee Teng) writes:
> A number of netters feel offended now and then by En. Othman
> Ahmad's racist comments & eccentric views. Well if you know the person has
> SERIOUS mental problems, perhaps you won't feel so perturbed.
> After all what do you expect to come out from the mouth of a
> person who is mentally unsound ?  Besides, En. Othman  does 
> contribute some useful stuff like checking up PC prices, info
> on KK etc. (Don't take that too seriously too though ).
> 
> By the way, the latest rumour is that NTU hires him as a clown
> to entertain the stressful students and staff there. I believe
> this got to be true ; what else would NTU need him for ??
> We should count ourselves lucky to have him in this net to 
> entertain us for FREE! (except of course you got to pay for
> the pop corn !! :)  )
> 
>
I regard myself as having a sense of humor and love jokes. Here, 
however, I find the statement above as being quite immature and mean. There
must be a better way to air your frustrations.
I followed from time to time the "war" that you, Othman
and others have..It always starts out innocently enough but turns
into an angry  emotional debate which is really unfortunate for 
everyone on the net. It can only in the long run contribute
to an unworthy impression of
Malaysia as a country and Malaysians as a people..to non-Malaysians. 
Whatever political
changes u want cannot be achieved here anyway..Why don't
all of you unhappy ones write to The Star, Straits Times etc
I'm sure you are thinking of course they won't print it , maybe
not the first time, but if u are so concerned with the 
lack of scholarships for non-Malays, for example, you 
should collectively try again and again in all avenues to
cause change for future Malaysians instead of 
just blowing hot air whining and complaining on the network.
This goes for Chinese, Malay, Indian, whatever..


"The cautious seldom err"--Confucius
"The better part of valor is discretion"--Shakespeare
" We must indeed all hang together or most assuredly, we shall
all hang separately"---BEnjamin Franklin
"Certain peace is better than anticipated victory"--livy