HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Consumer Reports duel
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:01:58 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyle, Inc.
Originator: jns@rac2.wam.umd.edu


I thought the contrast striking between the following
two letters to the editor in this month's [August]
_Consumer Reports_ magazine.  [Note the clever use of
Fundamentalist Lifestyle Logic in the second, rather
pathetic letter.]  They appeared in the order given
here [without permission...], without comment by the
editors.

[Letter #1]

      We were deeply disturbed by your June cover report
   naming _Cracker Barrel Old Country Store_ restaurants
   the top-rated family restaurant chain in America.  Last
   year _Cracker Barrel_ fired its lesbian and gay employees--
   or at least those it discovered after conducting what
   amounted to a systematic witch hunt.  Suspected or open
   gays and lesbians were forced to undergo chilling
   interrogrations about their personal lives.  In a public
   notice, _Cracker Barrel_ stated it would no longer employ
   people "whose sexual preferences fail to demonstrate
   normal heterosexual values which have been the foundation
   of families in our society."  Termination notices read:
   "This employee is being terminated due to violation of
   company policy.  The empolyee is gay."  Despite a year of
   protests by fired workers, gay-rights advocates, and their
   supporters, *none* of the terminated employees have been
   rehired.  You quoted the company's current claim that it
   does not discriminate against gay workers.  If this is
   true, why haven't the fired workers been rehired (several
   have reapplied)?  More to the point, the company's public
   statements on its hiring practices keep changing.  Earlier
   this year the company proclaimed adherence "to the letter
   and spirit of the law regarding nondiscrimination in the
   workplace"--but neither Federal law nor state laws in the
   jurisdictions where _Cracker Barrel_ operates protect
   workers on the basis of sexual orientation.   Given the
   company's documented bigotry, its failure to correct past
   abuses, and its disingenuous statements on current policy,
   and in light of the hostility shown by restaurant 
   management toward peaceful protesters (a suit brought
   against picketing groups was recently thrown out of court),
   it is clear _Cracker Barrel_ restaurants are not an
   environment in which openly gay and lesbian workers and
   customers are welcome.
                              Stephen H. Miller, Vice-Chair
                              Gay & Lesbian Alliance
                              Against Defamation
                              New York City

[Letter #2]

      What a shock to read in your restaurant report,
   "Advocacy groups claim that the [_Cracker Barrel_]
   chain refuses to employ homosexuals."  Are you now
   an advocate for homosexuals?  Cancel my subscription.
                              D.W.
                              Kalamazoo, Mich.

--jns
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,rec.arts.tv,alt.individualism,rec.arts.tv.uk,alt.activism,rec.arts.tv.soaps
From: messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk)
Subject: Re: Gayspace (was Re: Do You Remember... and Re: On Banning Private Discrimination)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 06:35:04 GMT
Organization: Messina Software
Followup-To: alt.flame


Normally I don't get involved in such issues cause I really don't
give a damn which part of your anatomy you use to perform sex, but
after reading your post and then your rude remarks to another poster,
I decided I needed to tell you what I think about it.

Mr. adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

> So, anyway, in today's LA Times is a little article that my city
> council (the West Hollywood City Council) last week approved a
> monument commemorating last fall's street protests against
> California governor Pete Wilson's veto of AB 101 (a gay-rights
> bill).  I took part in most of the street protests, and I am
> *very* glad to see that the city council stood up to some
> homophobic resistance -- yes, even West Hollywood has its phobes. 
> They, the phobes, complained that the city "places too much
> emphasis on gay and lesbian issues".  I say a big "fuck you" to
> them.  The city places emphasis on gay and lesbian issues because
> we are the single largest voting block in the city.  And if the
> phobes don't like it, they're welcome to move to a city 35% of
> whose residents are not gay.  I'm sure they'd be able to find
> such cities.

What a novel idea.  Yeah, if the residents don't like what a vocal
special interest group is doing, let them get the hell out of the city
and move somewhere else.  Yeah, I wonder if they should adapt that
policy in the cities where you're not such a vocal group.

> Anyway, the five-foot monument is going to be placed at the
> intersection of Crescent Heights and Santa Monica boulevards --
> around the corner from my apartment -- which is where Queer
> Nationals held a hunger strike last year in the weeks leading up
> to Wilson's veto of AB 101.  The Times described the monument as
> "an inscribed bronze-and-steel triangle perched atop a gently
> curving post.  The plaque will cite the protests over the bill,
> known as AB 101, and declare: 'We will prevail.'"  

Yeah, spend the public money for the monuments designed for your
cause, sure.  The hell with the rest of them, you already mentioned
that, they can move to another city, sure.  What the hell, they're
just stupid taxpayers, and you are another victim group, you should be
compensated with special privileges and monuments to your cause from
the public fund, sure.  Let me see, what is your claim to being a
victim?  A use of certain parts of the anatomy to perform sex acts, is
that it?  Or is there any more to it?  

> And we will.

Not if other groups adopt your mentality, you won't.  And you should
pray that they don't.


t.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: I HATE GAY MEN.
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 13:32:50 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer):
> I think that not only have you missed my point, but that you're all wet.

have you been playing with the firehose again? you know
that's unfair when the rest of us are armed only with
squirt guns!

> Well, I'm not, but my "inner fag" is.

i'd love to see you with goatee, Doc Martins, crystals,
and lycra clothing ... like Jacquelyne Smith really wears
the clothes she designs for K-Mart.  gad, it'd be like
Madonna in a JCPenny commercial.  :-)

> Of course I'm not a member of these "target groups".  Even people who
> might match some of them aren't.  But we are part of the gay
> community.  This guy identified those things he doesn't like about
> people, and then defined them as being attributes of his "community".

well, i'm not going to defend his essay because it
was a mess as you and others have said.  however, i
do think that he made a couple of valid points when
you restrict the audience to GWMs under 30 and then
insult them by discounting the community they're in
and the fact that they're in their "formative years."
:-)

anyway, it's much more fun imagining you in the
middle of the Roxy's dance floor ...
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Engineer bashing
Organization: QueerNet
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 12:23:34 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.213707.23700@amhux2.amherst.edu> twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>Or perhaps they have a strict distribution requirement, the lack of
>which placed Amherst high on my list of desirable colleges.

Interesting... why?  The delusion that you know what goes into a useful
educational program better than those nasty ol' professional educators, 
perhaps?

I'm glad to see Dartmouth's fairly weak distributive program (three courses
in each area: humanities, social sciences, sciences) turned into a more
rigorous core curriculum, myself, and wish they'd done it for us...
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: new hankie codes?
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:04:31 GMT
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA

In article <1992Jul23.183841.10126@spdcc.com> urso@spdcc.com (Stephen Chappell) writes:
> 
>It was amusing the other day to see a red hankie in the right pocket of this
>man holding on tightless with his MOTOS partner.  I suspect he didn't 
>realise quite what it meant.

It means he likes to save his boogers in a nice red hanky?


ER
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know when it was that I scratched Fate's car door, but I should have
left a note. --Tim Mefford

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: I HATE GAY MEN.
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:20:05 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.180008.25504@wam.umd.edu> aasos@next02wor.wam.umd.edu (Dimensional X) writes:
>An article from "WAKE uP QUEERS OR WE'RE ALL THROUGh" leaflet passed out a NYC  
>Gay Pride. Published by Anonymous Queers June 1992.

Sounds like it should be published by "selfhating queers".


That is yet another load of false stereotypes.  



Sigh...


FWA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: To all who wish to mail me...
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 07:42:23 GMT

Apparently, the powers dat is have decided for some reason to rename
odin.unomaha.edu to cwis.unomaha.edu. Don't ask. But anyway, the
articles I post/letters I write on this machine (be it odin or cwis
or whatever) go out from someplace called cwis, but if you try to
reply to them by sending mail to cwis or by replying and leaving the
destination as cwis, it *may* bounce because apparently cwis isn't
often recognised as a host yet. I guess. But anyway, make sure you
mail things to me at odin.unomaha.edu for a while until this cwis
thing gets settled down, and if something bounces when you try to
send to me, send it to the one it hasn't been sent to yet (odin or
cwis or whateverthefuck) and let me know so I can bitch about it.

Anyway, hope this makes more sense to y'all than it does to me.

--
John Dorrance    ** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **    thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu

		I always thought of you as my brick wall
		   Built like an angel, six feet tall.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Harry Foster <foster@convex.COM>
Subject: Gay Myths and Jeep Codes
Originator: foster@magnum.convex.com
Reply-To: foster@convex.COM (Harry Foster)
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 01:00:04 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.


	Sometimes it seems like we've got such a long way to go
	to dispell all the myths concerning homosexuals.  Why,
	just the other day, I was talking with a straight friend of
	mine, and well, one thing led to another, and before we knew 
	it we were discussing sexual orientation. That was when I 
	found out he harbored the misconception that gay men are 
	attracted to all other males.  As you can well imagine, I was 
	utterly appalled by the notion.  Why, this couldn't be farther 
	from the truth, I countered!  Personally, I'm only attracted to 
	short slim muscular dudes with flat tops driving big black jeeps 
	with chrome bumpers.  Okay, okay, I'll occasionally allow my 
	standards to slip a tad, and settle for a red jeep.  But then, 
	I must insist on driving every now and then!  ;-)
-- 
Harry Foster                                        foster@convex.com 
	"The test of courage comes when we are in the minority;
	 the test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority."
							-Ralph W. Sockman
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Subject: Re: G/L Youth Suicide
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:35:00 GMT

In an article nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>As a guess, I would wager a man would have been more helpful to me in
>dealing with my sexuality than a woman.

As long as the man did not have any unresolved sexual issues from
his youth which might cause him to be unprofessional, then you
are quite right.  I think that the best counseling situation
would be with a group of lesbian and gay-male counselors who
regularly interview each other for these sort of problems.
The person receiving the counseling certainly doesn't need to
have more problems cast upon them from a deviant counselor,
and in general, we don't need the bad reputation.




-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      tdbear@p6.f1006.n102.z1.fidonet.org fax 805-529-8895
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
[The views expressed herein may not be shared by the organization of origin]
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gayspace
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:20:13 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <ROBERTL.92Jul28162835@luciano.Stanford.EDU>
robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper) writes:

>BTW, to effect political change all that is necessary is power.  A
>just argument is unnecessary, although it can be helpful.

In a world that responds only to Realpolitik, perhaps.  One
hopes for a more enlightened world, nevertheless.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes)
Subject: Re: RFD: Still in print?
Organization: Thinkage Ltd.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:26:14 GMT

In article <63028@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Steve Dyer opines:
>>_Hippie Dick_ is even worse.  Not enough "Hippie" or "Dick"
>>for my taste.
>In any case, if you are lucky enough to see a copy of _Hippie
>Dick_ on your local newsstand, don't let Steve's maladaptive
>response to it dissuade you in the slightest.
>
>(Perhaps Steve just did too much LDS in the '60s. ;-)
                                  ^^^ Long Distance Sex ??

and george, the '60s i would suspect were a leetle early even for someone
of steve's advanced age (like 1 yr older than me?)

or perhaps you were talking about 60ug doses?

-- 
   - Ken Dykes, Thinkage Ltd., Kitchener, Ontario, Canada    [43.47N 80.52W]
         postmaster@thinkage.on.ca  kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca  thinkage!kgdykes
         kgdykes@math.uwaterloo.ca  [129.97.128.1]      kgdykes@thinkage.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: "Rational" Humans vs ?? (was Re: On Banning Private Discrimination)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:10:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.025224.17021@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> Instead you see it in terms ...
> 
> >It's nice to see that you speak for the
> >rest of soc.motss. When was the coronation?
> 
> ...  that are as primitve as your understanding of human
> beings, as poorly informed as your philosophy, and as
> unworkable as your politics.  But I'm sure we're on the same
> side in most things, more important than any of this.

  Is this all you can come up with? Content free slams? Oh well,
I've come to expect it. 
-- 

PS: I'll be gone for the weekend, enjoy the dais :^)

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: Results from the Con Part I
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:11:25 GMT

rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>The answers/decisions from the meeting of the motss.cabal held at the .con.

1G.  Chicago.

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu

   "Is anyone here 60 inches?  We could measure."  --Robert Coren, I think
From: bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Vatican equates homosexuality with mental illness
Date: 19 Jul 92 07:17:05 GMT

> In article <1992Jul17.121246.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> remcke01@ulkyvx.louisvi
> >It seems that the Roman church now sees homosexuality not
> >only as a sin, but a MENTAL ILLNESS
> 
> No, not a MENTAL ILLNESS, but an "objective disorder".
> Get it straight!  The difference should be obvious to
> anyone!
> 
THIS from a group that (the last I heard) had 1 Billion dollars set aside to
handle all its sexual abuse cases....sheesh-
now when I meet someone who is Catholic I just assume that either they WERE
abused as a child or ARE a child abuser...
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jefu@akbar.nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam)
Subject: Re: A good solution to gay youth difficulties is speaking gigs.
Organization: New Mexico Institute of Mining & Technology
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:37:51 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.001106.6870@auto-trol.com> katbea@auto-trol.com  
(Kathy Beatty) writes:

> Brad, not so very long ago (and still, in areas outside of cities),  
the
> very idea of a local gay organization would have been preposterous.  
..

> I just keep thinking that it HAS to be easier, now. 

In or near cities it may be easier, but out in the boonies
little has changed.  Here in Socorro a man was killed recently
- evidently because he was gay though I have few details.  Its
not that he was gay that struck me, it was the curtain of silence
that fell over his murder.  

We have a gay group on the campus here and while there are a
good number of women involved, there are only one or two gay
men involved.  And posters for the group rarely last more than
an hour or so - all the usual.  I can only imagine what it must
be like for gay kids in the local high school.  

--
jefu <=> Jeff Putnam - New Mexico Tech <=> jefu@nmt.edu 
"Overturn the dominant paradigm"
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Bewitched
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:10:56 GMT

I was in what I should delicately call a "trick's" apartment not long
ago, and while waiting for breakfast nibbles, in desperation at not
having anything to read or occupy myself with, I read a French
equivalent of "TV Guide", and it was nice to see in "Notes From
Hollywood", (as I translate something like):

                             Friends Forever

It is a true friend which stands by one's side through thick and thin.
Stars of M6's "Bewitched" (La Sorciere, ma bien aimee) Elizabeth
Mongomery and Dick Sargent here pictured (picture) in the parade for
Homosexuality Freedom in the United States. Dick Sargent, risking his
career in The US, recently announced that his true feelings about his
sexual orientation and came out. Elizabefth Mongomery giving her
support and companionship accompanies him in the parade, guest of
honor, and appeared later at a big Hollywood bash for Gay Pride.

I think the US equivalent in "TV Guide" would be a bit different; maybe not.
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii)
Subject: Re: I LOVE HATERS
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:44:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.102949.24372@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul29.225708.3737@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu
>(Nelson Minar) writes:
>
>>That manifesto was anti-sex, anti-fun, full of misdirected animosity.
>>A perversion of the original uplifting "I Hate Straights" message that
>>was responsible for a lot of my own queer sensibility.
>
>

I've come to the conclusion that the poor fellow who posted that speil was
actually channeling the spirit of either T*d K*ld*s or Cl*yt*n Cr*m*r!

Somebody  page Shirley MacClaine, please!!


Peter Thomas

-- 
"I'll lose my beard when they shave it from my cold, dead face!"

Quote from the Razor's Anonymous Handbook
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: British pronunciation (was: Spanish spelling)
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:20:14 GMT
Organization: 3L Ltd, Peel House, Ladywell, Livingston EH54 6AG, UK


In article <1992Jul22.153859.997@amhux2.amherst.edu>,
twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

> The English may be uptight, but they certainly know how to say what
> they mean.  :-)

We're not uptight, just loosely challenged.  Nor do we know
how to say what we mean; we're otherly prevaricating. 

At least that's what *Americans* tell me :-)

--John
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Re: Lost Language of Cranes question
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:46:05 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.125745.15810@watson.ibm.com> jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:
>nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>>>There's one niggling little thing that's getting to me, though. What
>>>do the various language vignettes have to do with the story of the
>>>family?
>
>while i agree completely with jojo on Leavitt, the whole point
>was the breakdown in communication between the members of the
>family, hence "The Lost Language."  [the crane child seemed like
>such an awkward metaphor; he should have stopped here. :-]

When I finished reading the crane-child section, I felt mentally raped
because it was to me the intellectual equivalent of a purely prurient
Harlequin romance-style epic excess couched in terms of
pop-psychological dysfunctionality and I didn't want my value-system
exposed to such dross. Haven't we had enough of the basic story type
already with films like "Ordinary Pictur^H^H^H^H^Heople"? The mother's
relationship with Roget's Thesaurus was a bad enough conceit.

(Speaking of parents giving values to children: It's 10 o'clock, do
you know where your children stand on a cash scale?)

>you'll remember that a focal point in the movie, loaded with
>incredible tension, is the scene where Philip comes out to his
>family.  His mother's response was something along the lines,
>"there are some things that are supposed to be kept secret."

If I were in a theatre, I'd probably blurt out "Only his hairdresser
knows for sure."

>in other words, there are some things that are not supposed to
>be communicated, like her husband's homosexuality which caused
>her to seek sexual fulfillment outside of the marriage, like
>where her husband has been going on Sunday afternoons for the
>past million years, like ...

A more apt metaphor would be for a character studying medicine to find
someone for whom a traffic accident caused the brain to be rattled in
such a way as to make the person curiously interested and gifted in a
totally unlikely way, and in such a way that his/her relatives still
"knew" them, but they were now wonderous: familiar, but a stranger in
their gifts brought out through pain and no little shock. I'd call it
"Strange Attractor" and say lots of things about chaos theory and try
to sound impressively mathematicoliterary. That is, if I were Leavitt,
which I'm not.

-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.