From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Stop thinking? (Was: Why I am an atheist)
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<ksand-041092163355@wintermute.apple.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 02:43:12 GMT

In article <ksand-041092163355@wintermute.apple.com> 
ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>I agree that it is we human that are responsible for the mess on this
>planet.

Very good, a cautious first step, eh? You'll see, freedom walk ain't
that bad. Unless you like crutches?

>This because I don't personally believe in a Biblical style creator.

Oh really? So, if you did "believe" in a "Biblical style creator" then you
would not believe in free will? How sad. I thought it said in the Bible
that your kind were delivered FROM slavery. How strange that you should
find some broken chains to cling to in your reading of the Bible. Maybe
you just got a poor translation? Maybe you found what you were looking
for? Maybe you've never read it?

>However,
>if a theist still argues that someone created this planet for human beings,
>this being is responsible to make sure that those who live here have an
>easier time.

Oh really? Kent, your parents created you, right? And, they are still
responsible for you? Do they bail you out when you fail? Are you or are
you not a free man? Free to succeed and free to fail? And what is this
"easier time"? Is that a couch potato saying? Have you been watching
90210 again? Kent, joyful participation in the sorrows of the world,
that is the way of no crutch required. That is the freedom walk, free to
rise and free to fall.

>If this is not the case, then we humans are considered to
>be rats in a huge experiment.

Well, that's your metaphor, not mine. As I've said before, heaven is
right here, right now, only most don't see IT for what IT is. Hell is
not seeing IT for what IT is. Are you seeing Hell, Kent? Do you know
what life is really worth? Do you know the meaning of freedom? You
aren't confusing freedom with free-lunch, are you?

>If you maintain that a possible God created this place for us humans to
>express free will, you can't avoid the 'landlord' issue.

The "landlord" issue? Another strange metaphor I assume? I would suggest
setting your sights higher, towards the transcendent.

>You could write
>billions of words that just tries to go around the issue of responsibility.

I don't! I accept full responsibility! That is the burden of freedom.
Everyone claims their burden is the heaviest, but who feels it knows it
most. Why do you seek to avoid this responsibility? Burden too heavy? In
need of a crutch? Clinging to broken shackles? Desire success without
the possibility of failure? How can you judge success without knowing
failure? To walk the freedom walk, one must accept the possibility of
falling. That is just the way it is.

>I have a feeling you yourself are not sure about why God does not 
>intervene when things are bad down here.

I would be heavily disappointed if a "God" intervened with my freedom
to fail. I hope to never see the day the music dies. The Lord delivered
our kind FROM slavery, if you don't believe me, read the Bible. Why are
you clinging to the broken shackles? Why this desire for an all powerful
slave master who will keep you from harm, protect you from pain, prevent
your ever failing? Is that any way for a free man to live?

>If you still maintain that
>we have free will, and it's our own problem, think about it when the
>roof is leaking and you want to have it fixed by your landlord.

I am the landlord! I fix my own God-damned leaks! Thank You very much.

I have a sermon for you Kent:

I say preacher man don't tell me, heaven is not on the earth
I know you don't know, what life is really worth
you say all that glitters is gold, half the story have never been told
so now we've seen the light, we're going to stand up for our right
Get Up! Stan' Up! Stand up for your right! Don't give up the fight!
you know we're sick and tired of your BUSHit game
you lie and go to heaven in a Jesus name
we know what you don't understand, the mighty Jah is a livin' man
so now you've seen the light, you're going to stand up for your right

I don't care who the guy is, I know my right.
How about you Kent, do you know your right?
The right to stand, and the right to fall?
The right to succeed, and the right to fail?
The right to live, and the right to die?

Freedom train going north tonight Kent, are you riding?