From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Subject: re: Bruce flame
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 00:16:28 GMT

Dakin Burdick <burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> says:


>Certainly he had an excellent side kick, and his roundhouse had good
>power, although not excellent height.
Again, you have to read his philosophies on this.  He wasn't very big
on high kicks, and only did them everyso often in the movies.
He felt that certain kicks were for show.

>>I'd be interested in where your getting your info.

>His books and movies.

Again, Bruce's fighting style was totally different than what was shown
in his movies.  In the movies he acted, and his fighting style took
on that of an actor.  The scenes are pre-choreographed, so the scenes
were pre-made to be as energetic as possible, alot of times stepping
out of Bruce's ideas.  His personal style is definately not represented
in his movies.  I'd also be interested in what books you read this in.

>>I can also suply photograhs of the many "advanced" kicks.

>Please do.  I've never seen any, but that doesn't mean they don't 
>exist.

sure, just email me your address and I'll ship 'em out to ya :)

>>I believe that was Bruce Li.

>Nope (unless the guy later changed his name).  When I get time, I'll
>dig out the guy's name.

Hmm...I just came from Blockbuster in fact, and I'm pretty sure it was
Bruce Li on credits.  I do know that the three main people they had
take over for alot of the "Bruce comes back from the dead" crap were
Bruce Li, Bruce Lea, and Dragon Lee.


>Right.  All I can do is judge their kicks from the movies.  Bruce's 
>replacement had some of Bruce's hand techniques down, but also had
>a jump back-spin kick that was head level and beautiful.

Again, you can't judge a persons style from a movie.  The persons style
changes to make it more filmable.  Some of the attributes of a persons
style may still be there but alot of the techniques and counters
are purely there to look good on film.  Again, Bruce was never really
big on jumping kicks except maybe the jumping forward kick or jumping
side kick.  It's hard to say a persons a better kicker when one of the
persons doesn't believe in those type of kicks in the first place,
especially jumping spinning kicks.

>>Only those who knew Ed, or Bruce, or Morihei
>>Ueshiba, or any other departed great martial artists can truly say
>>they were this or that.  And unless we were lucky enough to have actually
>>known these people, all we can do is go by what other these other people
>>tell us.

>Certainly those who knew Bruce should be given priority, but it is
>possible for others to comment on his techniques and even his
>personality; after all that's what history is all about -- the 
>reinterpretation of old data.

Right, but there's a difference between commenting on things people
know of him and things that could only be commented by people who knew
him.  For an example, his strategies can easily be commented on by
any individual, and their opinion be it for or against will have a 
definate level of genuinous and authority, because it is something
that stands away from him as an individual.  But to comment on someones
techniques or personality when you actually never knew the person is
rediculous.  And again this can go for anyone else that's either
in film now, or any great martial artist that is now dead.  Movies
don't fully represent a persons style (this is true of Segal, Van Damme,
Chuck Norris, or anyone else in the movies) or their techniques.
If you want to rehash old data by people who knew these people,
than that's a totally different story...

>I'm also kind of amused that you think I'm flaming Bruce. 

I apologize if it seemed that way to you.  That reply was also meant
to be an open reply to all the other letters and not fully directed at
you.

>I said his
>fighting style was excellent for self-defense, his hand techniques 
>were good, he had more charisma than any other martial arts actor
>since, and he was an important influence on martial arts development
>in the U.S..  All I said was that his high kicks were not as good
>as those of modern competitors, which is understandable given his 
>martial arts philosophy and background as a member of a street gang
>(heh-heh!  another flame war!).  Bruce was not a god, just real,
>real close.  :)

True.  Like was said before he didn't really believe in alot of high
kicks.  I like the part about the street gang though :)  Alot of people
don't know about that.  One of the main reasons he came to the US in
'59 was becaues he was forced to.  He got in so many street fights and
in trouble with the local police that they were going to arrest him.
The family decided to ship him off to the US to live with family freinds
in seattle.  And the rest is history....

He also used to pick fights with alot of people to gain fighting experience.
Him and his friend Hawkins Cheung.  They'd go up to people and do the
"I heard what you were saying about me" routine and start fights.
A yes.....he was a very big trouble maker when he was growing up in Hong
Kong....



Marty
Organization: Comp & Comm - Telecommunications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA