HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dan@msen.com (Dan Sugalski)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Obedience v. Breed (was mutts & purebreds)
Date: 15 Dec 1992 04:19:21 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

:But that's not what the conformation ring is for.  It is for finding the dogs
: that come closest to the written breed standard.   (Well, that's what it is
: supposedly for....)

Then howcome all of the grooming time for Beardies, when they are
supposed to be shown naturally?  Or the people who use grooming to hide
faults?  Since the purpose of the conformation ring is to find those
animals which best exemplify the breed standard, primarily so that they
can be used in perpetuating the species, why are dogs with known genetic
defects allowed to be bred?  OFA for one makes results available to breed
organizations, and most seem to not care.

: There's some long, hard training that goes into producing a good conformation
: dog too, especially the top winners.

True, but obedience won't ruin a conformation dog.  I've also never had an
obedience person say to me "Pet people, don't you hate them?"  or a variation
of it as I have had conformation breeders say to me.

: I have been told over and over that champions should have to prove themselves
: in other areas, such as Collies gaining herding titles, Newfies their Water
: Rescue awards, Rotties guarding, Retrievers retrieving, etc.  Particularly
: from Europe, where I understand that many breeds have to perform before their
: championships are granted.

: I just can't buy into this.  Using this kind of logic, no obedience titles
: should be awarded to a Beardie unless he has his herding degree, no agility
: title to a terrier unless he has done his going-to-ground test successfully, no
: Golden can pass a temperament test unless he has his hunting certificate!

No it isn't.  By this logic, a dog/bitch which is earning its championship
is proving that it has the conformation, temperament and intelligence that
the breed is supposed to have.  Since a large number of these dogs are
being finished in order that they may be bred, is that an unreasonable
requirement?  I'm in favor of having some alternatives, but a performance
aspect should be there.  This has recently been done with the Arabian
horse, and for the better.  If you don't like this requirement, how about
mandatory health testing for defects known to exist within the breed? 
Done with an official witness?    

Before anyone says that the purpose of conformation is not in the most
part breeding thereafter, why then are there no classes for neutered animals?

I come from the belief that we should all be pushing for the breeding of
sound, stable animals first.  A pet should be as sound as a conformation
or an obedience dog, because the dog deserves this.  Until the breed
organizations take action to police their own ranks and promote good breeding
practices, we are all easy targets for animal rights groups that play on
public fear and ignorance.

Karen

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: srlee@beta.lanl.gov (Stephen R Lee)
Subject: Re: Snow Dogs
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:51:43 GMT


Hello everyone!  My name is Queva.  I am the leader of Dads team.  Well,
O.K., I share leader duties with Tasska, but I'm older so I'm really
in charge.  I love snow!  We have a lot of it where I am.  I've heard
Dad talk about 4ft on the ground.  We make our own special snow dogs.

When Dad takes us out for a run, we get very excited.  He loads up that
thing that makes noise (I think Dad calls it a truck) with all of our 
gear, then loads us up.  Tee-hee! Tasska sometimes gets so excited that she 
forgets where to get in to the truck and jumps on top of it.  Dad thinks 
that is funny, but I think it is stupid.  Thats why I am really in charge.

Anyway, last night we went out for a run.  More snow fell during the
day, and the trail was soft.  It is harder for us to run fast in
the soft snow, but Dad does not seem to mind going slower. Soft trails 
allow us to have some additional fun.  Dad cannot run nearly as fast as 
we can, and sometimes we will slow down in some soft snow and when Dad 
jumps off the sled to run behind, we take off!  It is great fun because Dad
will try and keep up, then stumble and fall in the snow.  Whee!  THat
is really funny.  We have not gotten him to let go of the sled (well,
recently anyway), but we do drag him on his side for a while.  Hee-Hee!  
What a neat mark that makes in the snow! I guess this is not really a snow 
dog, but is it sort of a human-snow dog!  It is great fun.  Dad does not 
seem to mind, but we have heard him grumble as he shakes the snow off of his 
face and out of his coat.  He does not seem to be as prepared as we are for 
the cold and snow.  Just one more reason why I am really in charge.

Oops.  Here comes Dad.  I'd better send this before he sees it.  I
hope he is going to take us out for more fun.

Everyone think snow!  We love it!

-- 
============================================================
Stephen R. Lee                 | 
OooWoo Racing Kennel           | I'd rather be driving sled
E-Mail: srlee@beta.lanl.gov    | dogs.
From: ce293@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gail E. Brookhart)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Kromfohrlander
Date: 18 Dec 1992 00:45:00 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ce293@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gail E. Brookhart)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, jlw@keps.com (Julie Webster) says:

>Does anyone know anything about this breed of dog? My Mom saw
>it in a book of dog breeds and was really interested. I called
>the AKC and they didn't know anything. I also called the numbers
>for several rare breed clubs they gave me but neither number
>was in service. I believe the Kromfohrlander is a German
>dog that has recently become popular in other countries. It is
>smallish [30-40 pounds], listed as a companion dog that is
>reasonably lively, and it is white and caramel colored.
>
>Thanks for any info!
>
>			       Julie Webster
>"Abolish Monday mornings and Friday afternoons."
>jlw@keps.com
>
>
>

From the Simon and Schuster Guide to Dogs:

(Somewhat edited for brevity's sake)

ORIGIN:  The breed was developed in the nineteenth century but
the contributing breeds are not recorded.

DESCRIPTION:  15 to 18 inches tall and weight about 26 pounds.
There are three varieties of Kromfohrlander: a coarse-haired
variety, a variety with short coarse hair and one with long
coarse hair.  All are white with chesnut markings.  Black is 
not admissible.

PERSONALITY:  Lively, loyal, obedient

USES:  A purely companions dog with suitability to apartment
life.  Also appreciated as a watchdog and bodyguard with an
excellent sense of hearing.



QUITE CUTE IN THE PICTURE!  Looks a little like a small
German Wirehaired Pointer.

Gail Brookhart
From: jowu@plx.com (Joe Wu)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Akita
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:54:29 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: PLEXUS Software, a division of REI

Hi netter,
 
Has Any netter have experience about Akita. My wife and I brought a Akita puppy
(male) a while ago. Now we are "a little bit" worry about his strong will.
Is this dog some kind agressive to other dog/animal or even stranger. 

Thanks
-- 
Joe Wu	  E-mail:jowu@plx.com
PLEXUS Software, 1310 Chesapeake Terrace, Sunnyvale, CA 94089
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: rlt@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (r l taylor)
Subject: Re: Snow Dogs
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:10:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.183351.4838@news.nd.edu> mike@nowaksg.chem.nd.edu (Michael George Buening) writes:
>In article <1gl56bINN7o1@bigboote.WPI.EDU> mfriley@pacman.WPI.EDU (Margaret F Riley) writes:
>>Hello everyone, this is Siegfried.  Mommy is busy, so I thought
>>I would post a message to all the doggies out there.  Everyone get
>>your doggies to the screen.

>Hey Siegfried,
>	Guess what.  Dad's so non-busy that he fell asleep and doesn't
>know I am posting to all the newsgroups I can get into.  Anyway I'll
>try that snow dog thing as soon as we get more snow.  Ours metled :(
>But I did learn something new this year.  Don't try to fetch snow balls.
>Everytime I get to where it landed I can't find the darn thing.  I dig
>and poke around but I can't find it.  In a desparate attempt to fool Dad
>I tried to catch one from across the yard.  What a mess.  Snow all over
>and I got quite a mouthfull :-)

>Beamer (in trouble again)

Hey, guys, this is great!  Must have something to do with it being
Monday...all these humans are so busy grumbling that they leave their
terminals unattended.

Listen, Beamer, I've found the secret to catching snowballs.  It's
kind of like a raw egg...be real gentle, and don't bite down.  Dad
gets a real kick out of it when I actually bring one back to him!

Too bad I don't have long fur to collect snow clumps in - but I sure
do like eating it!  So does my sister, Babie.  She's funny, though.
She loves water when it's melted (typical dumb girl - I think she
thinks she's a Lab!) but she doesn't want to get her dainty little
butt wet when there's snow on the ground.  Heeheehee...Boy, did she
ever catch it last night!  Dad took us out, and she wouldn't go to
the bathroom.  As soon as he went to bed, she started insisting she
had to go out again.  He was mad, but he got dressed and took her
out.  She *still* wouldn't go...till she got back inside!  Wow, did
he ever holler at her.  I thought he was gonna kill her, so I just
stayed by Mom, like a perfect angel.  Have I ever got her fooled! :-)

Magnum
...the DoberPerfectOne...

PS  I can catch snowballs, but I can never find rocks when Mom
throws them in the river.  Where do they go???  Can anybody help
me figure this one out before Spring?
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: sla54@cas.org (Sandra Augustine)
Subject: Re: Nutro Max -- Good or Bad?
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:15:31 GMT

>In article <1992Dec16.164603.16880@b30.ingr.com>,
>scott@borg.wyle.ingr.com (G. Scott Downey) writes:
>|>I've recently switched dog foods to Nutro-Max and have been
>|>feeding the amounts specified on the bag.  Prior to my switch,
>|>my vet had told me that the dogs were the perfect size -- not
>|>too fat or thin.  Now that I've switched, the boys eat more
>|>eagerly, but are dropping weight.  Should I increase the
>|>amount that I feed?  Should I trash this Nutro Max stuff and
>|>go back to my old brand?
>|>
>|>All advice solicited.
>|>
>|>                     G. Scott Downey
>|>                     Moses' Daddy (RottMonster)
>|>                     Job's Daddy Too (Lab)
>|>
>|>P.S.  If it makes any difference, it's the lamb/rice
>

	There is a BIG difference in calories between Nutro Max at 425 kcal/cup
and Nutro's Natural Choice (the lamb/rice one) at 351 kcal/cup. If you like
the Nutro Max foods in general and don't really need to feed a lamb/rice-based
diet, you might want to switch to regular Nutro Max if your boys are loosing
weight.
	I fed Nutro Max for at least two years before switching to Purina
Pro-Plan (temporarily) and found that I needed to feed more Pro-Plan than Nutro
Max. However, the Pro-Plan was cheaper, so on a cost basis, it all evened out.

********************************************************************************
Sandra Augustine  |Home of: Conformation, obedience, and field titled Golden
NORWOOD KENNELS   |Retrievers who do therapy dog work, a disobedient but
ems: sla54@cas.org|beautiful Siberian husky and a *cute* Norfolk terrier puppy
********************************************************************************
	       The above opinions are not those of my employer.
********************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca (Valaria Vorlop)
Subject: More on the neurotic Dachshund.
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:59:59 GMT

Right after posting the last message, I got a call from Max's owner with more
info. The dog had bitten his 10 year old daughter on the hand, 3 times in a
matter of a few minutes. She was on the couch with the dog and tried to get
up. He bit, she hit and started to get up again. He bit, she clobbered him
and he yelped and went running to his basket. She walked past the basket and
he jumped out, jumped up and bit her again!

Apparently this dog checks out fine by the vet, they had complete tests done
on him when this problem started.

PLEASE, does anybody have any advice before this dog is put down?


--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *   ********************************************
Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca   *For YEARS I wondered what ceiling wax was.*
or:      a4080@mindlink.bc.ca   ********************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *                        *******
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: mlr21@cas.org (Mary Lee)
Subject: Re: Opinions on breed.
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:06:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.160309.1893@msus1.msus.edu>, kevin@msus1.msus.edu writes:
|> In article <168C0CDCC.CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu>, CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:
|> >  
|> > Item #2 is incompatible with #3 and #4.  #3 because a good hunter will
|> > require lots of excersise - and that means more than just a walk after
|> > you get home from work.  Staying in an apartment/crate all day will not
|> > give the dog the excersise it would need (even for small hunting dogs).
|> > #4 is incompatible simply because I would consider it cruel to keep a
|> > large dog in an apartment all day (actually, I wouldn't sell ANY breed
|> > of dog to someone that lived in an apartment).
|> >  
|> > .soapbox off
|> So lets see...my options are none?  If I hunt, live in the city, and can't
|> afford to buy a house I can't have a hunting dog or in your opinion any dog?
|> 
|> I see.
|> Is this the opinion of most of you netters?
|> 
|> ============================================================================
|> Kevin Whyte						kevin@msus1.msus.edu
|> 	**Representing and speaking for no one but myself.**
|> "Still, the best augurs are those who divine from the portents of the past. 
|> They compile phenomenal records." Croaker "The Black Company" by Glen Cook
|> 


I'm going to jump in here with two cents and both feet (and probably 
put one of them in my mouth), but here goes:

I don't think Chris is saying that Kevin cannot have a hunting dog (or any 
dog) because he lives in the city.  

I think Chris saying that Chris would not sell any of Chris' dogs to
anyone who lived in the city.

In other words, X is not saying that Y can't have a dog, X is saying that X
chooses not to sell Y a dog because of Y's environment.  Y, however,
can do whatever Y pleases, including buying a dog from whomever will
sell Y a dog (although X will not sell Y a dog).

Personally, I've gotten to the point where I'd probably hesitate to sell
a dog, a cat, or a horse to anybody because so many people, no matter
how much they "love" animals, have so very little knowledge about animals
and apparently very little common sense.  No flames
intended here toward anyone--this is just an observation based on
several years' dealing with four-leggeds and two-leggeds, and the fact 
that I can't go on vacation cause I don't trust anybody to take care of 
my horses :^)

Mary Lee
From: vln@icpsr.umich.edu (Victoria Neff)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: That's My Dog!
Date: 15 Dec 1992 18:13:24 GMT
Organization: Inter-University Consortium for Political and Social Research
NNTP-Posting-Host: tdis.icpsr.umich.edu

So, have y'all been watching That's My Dog???  It's broadcast by the
Family Channel.  Some of the stuff they do is pretty stupid, but some
of it is fun.  They finish up with a legitimate (though short) agility
course.

Last Sunday they had the first Corgi I've seen on the show.  She was
perfectly adorable, and she won, too!
From: dan@msen.com (Dan Sugalski)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: BRO in MA
Date: 15 Dec 1992 09:24:13 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

: %What is a BRO?
: A Breed Rescue Organization

Ok.  I wasn't sure if the b was for breed, boxer, bouvier, briard or whatever.
Does it have to be in MA?  Are there any particular breeds?

Karen

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: abb@unislc.uucp (Anne Beck)
Subject: Re: Opinions on breed.
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:42:19 GMT

From article <2B310391.21326@ics.uci.edu>, by tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore):
> In <1992Dec17.160309.1893@msus1.msus.edu> kevin@msus1.msus.edu writes:
> 
>>In article <168C0CDCC.CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu>, CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:
>>> .soapbox off
> 
>>So lets see...my options are none?  If I hunt, live in the city, and can't
>>afford to buy a house I can't have a hunting dog or in your opinion any dog?
> 
>>I see.
>>Is this the opinion of most of you netters?
> 
> No.
> 
> --Cindy
> --
> Cindy Tittle Moore
> 
Right, Cindy!  My Newf has a fenced-in yard and a big run.  Does she want
to be out there?  Never, unless that's where I am.  She spends the day in
the house, sleeping on the bed, or wandering around hiding her toys, or
playing chase with the other dogs and cats.  This is a 120 pound dog we're
talking about!

A friend of mine, who also has Newfs, said she thought the "fenced-in 
yard" thing was pretty spurious for Newfs.  They need about 7 square
feet to sleep during the day and about 100 square miles to romp on
after work.  With you.  On a leash -- or trained to come when called.

I agree with everyone else.  Most dogs just sleep when their people
are gone, and they can do that about anywhere.  It depends on 
whether the person is willing to exercise the dog adequately 
when the work day is over.  That should be the criteria, not
whether the yard is fenced.  (My Newf can jump any fence made,
and if she can't jump it, she can dig under it, so putting
her in a yard, unattended, is dangerous.)

I've seen too many dogs, including Newfoundlands, relegated almost
solely to the back yard "because that's where dogs belong."  And
they're unsocialized, unhappy, and unhealthy.  Better to live in
an apartment and get some attention, love, and exercise on the
end of a leash.
> Terrell's Chocolate Deduction--Hershe (Labrador Retriever)
> 
> The rec.pets.dogs FAQ -- all ten parts -- is available via ftp to
> pit-manager.mit.edu under pub/usenet/news.answers/dogs-faq/*.  There
> is a mail server, email me for details.
> 
> In loving memory of Betsy: 4-10-92 to 8-19-92...
-- 
   Anne Beck			| The difference between difficult
   abb@unislc  sun!unislc!abb   | dogs & vicious human beings is
   Unisys  SLC UT               | that difficult dogs don't rise to 
			        | prominent positions in the community.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Distribution: world
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 11:37:00 -0800
From: ELAINE_GALLEGOS@f703.n202.z1.fidonet.org
Subject: Doggie hair out of fabric/upholstery?
Comment-To: All@f703.n202.z1.fidonet.org
Reply-To: ELAINE_GALLEGOS@f703.n202.z1.fidonet.org
X-FSC-PATH: 202/703 701
X-FSC-PID:  RA 0.04

  This is my single beef with the Golden Retriever.  A fine loving
dog, but wow! that hair.  It seems to work it's way into everything,
and is difficult to get up, outside of plucking it out of carpeting
and upholostry hair by hair.
  
--- FMail 0.92
 * Origin: HILLCREST COMMUNITY BBS, SAN DIEGO: HST 619-291-0544 (1:202/703)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby)
Subject: OOPS! -- was Re: Doggie hair out of fabric/upholstery?
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:56:33 GMT

Well, following my usual practice, as soon as that article was on
its merry way, I saw a typo:

Clearly, "...my good got cold again" should have been "...my food
got cold again."  Sorry for any confusion....  Sigh.............


-- 
Best,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
	  crs@lanl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Rebecca Drayer)
Subject: My Strange Pooch
Organization: Yale University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 00:26:18 EST

Lately I've been hearing from my folks that my 2 year-old Bichon, Shana, has
been acting very mischievously.  She'll go to her water bowl, but instead of
drinking, she'll start playing with the water.  Sometimes she'll stick her
paws in and start batting it around, or she might stick her face in the bowl
and start blowing bubbles.  (I wish I could see this; it sounds hilarious.)
 
Anyway, she's never done this type of thing before, and I'm wondering why
she suddenly started.  Anyone have any similar experiences?
 
 
*************************************************************************
Rebecca A. Drayer, EMT-A        |   Rebecca@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
(a.k.a Organic Lass of the LNH) |   Computing Assistant
                                |   Silliman College, Yale University
 
"You can always tell a Harvard man, but you can't tell him much."
                                                    - Anonymous
*************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: diannes@milton.u.washington.edu (Dianne Schoenberg)
Subject: Re: Welcome, Bianca
Keywords: adult poodle, helpful hints wanted
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:30:15 GMT

Hey! Does anyone else have a problem with this?

> According to her breeder, even though Bianca is
> show quality, at 10.5 inches she's too big to show, so the breeder had
> been breeding her.  

From what I understand, there are basically two definitions of "show quality":
   1) If a good-faith effort is made to show the dog, the dog is 
      capable of earning a championship.  (Many breeders will offer
      a written contract guaranteeing money back or a replacement
      puppy if the dog is incapable of earning a championship)
   2) (the looser and far less preferable definition) The dog has no
      disqualifying faults.

I *can't* think of any possible definition under which a dog with a
disqualifying fault (as size definitely *is* for a toy poodle--maximum
allowable is 10") could be considered show quality.

> Her third litter was weaned a month ago.  As her third
> litter consisted of one puppy, delivered by ceasarean, her breeder
> decided to find her a good home as a pet.

Certainly I can consider many circumstances under which it might be
desireable to breed a dog with a disqualifying fault--but I would
hope that a reputable breeder (which I *hope* this one is) would be more
concerned with the quality of her get than the quantity.  Have any of
the puppies from her earlier litters finished their championships?

Any comments from netland?

Dianne (who is showing her first dog, is looking forward to getting a better
        one & hopefully breeding someday, & is honestly curious)

(P.S.: Debbie--I certainly hope you don't take this as a flame of you,
your mother, or Bianca.  I'm just concerned because I've heard breeders
say some really gawdawful stupid things in the past just in order to sell 
a dog--there really aren't any controls on such things.)




Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs