HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: efrank@charm.hep.upenn.edu (Ed Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: women working on bikes
Date: 3 Sep 92 10:58:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <_bln-7-.akkana@netcom.com>, akkana@netcom.com (Akkana Peck) writes:
> 
> I'm another woman who works on her own bike (and car and motorcycle).
> But it's true that fewer women men do their own mechanical work.
> The reason?  Most women were raised with no knowledge of how things work
> and no expectation that we would take things apart and gain the same
> experience the boys were getting. 

	This is an advantage:  men only THINK they know how
	things work.  

> It takes a lot of effort to remedy
> this lack later in life (took me several years of bothering my more
> mechanical friends (all male) to get to where I felt comfortable).
> 
	I am curious what skills you think boys learned that girls
	did not.  Most of the mechanical skills that I learned as
	a boy, e.g., driving screws with a hammer, using a standard
	screwdriver to remove phillips heads, pulling nails with an
	adjustable wrench, and taking nuts off with a pipe wrench, did
	not prove valuable in the end.  Being able to drive nails 
	while hanging one handed from a tree is still a neat trick 
	though...

Ed Frank
efrank@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu
From: TOM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Redneck gets Tom, Hit & Run
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:21:26 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

I was on my old Schwinn, single speed, just going to return videos a block
away.  Traffic was heavy and I was going pretty fast, but obeying the law,
riding on the right side of the road.  I was struck by a car making a right
turn into the corner gas station.  I fell over and saw the car peel out onto
the cross street.  I wasn't hurt, but my steel Schwinn wheel is now dented,
I was shook a little and should have got the licence number.  Good thing
I wasn't on my road bike with alloy wheels.
                                      The Score,
                                   Car - 1 , Tom - 0
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: locher@iastate.edu (Robert C Locher)
Subject: Re: Gas subsidies and taxes (was Re: Bicycle Paths
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:55:31 GMT

Can we _please_ stop the flame war?

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: gmack@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack)
Subject: Re: HG Chain vs. Sedis ATB
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:01:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.085538.1@zeus> cbishop@zeus writes:

>> broke at the black pin that he had replaced and one broke at a regular pin.
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>It is my understanding that you do not replace the black pin. Always 
>replace one of the regular pins. Am I wrong?
>
>Chuck

That is correct!  The Shimano literature that comes with the HG chains is very
explicit about NOT removing the black pin.  (Don't really know why, though!) 


-- 
Gregg Mack                  --------- __o       __o       __o       __o
gmack@oakhill.sps.mot.com   ------- _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_
Motorola RISC uProcessors   ------ (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)
Austin, TX  USA             ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: obrien@netcom.com (Robert O'Brien)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Bloody Specialized Water Bottle Ads
Date: 24 Aug 92 01:15:05 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

In article <176t24INN3ua@agate.berkeley.edu> Jym Dyer <jym@mica.berkeley.edu> writes:
>> Just read the thread re: water bottle ads, peeled back tape
>> from my $4.50 bottle, and saw Taco Bell...
>>
>> Last specialized H2O bottle I buy.
>
>=o= Huh?  I haven't seen the thread on water bottle ads.  The
>Taco Bell bottles aren't made by Specialized, are they?  They
>certainly aren't built like Specialized bottles.
>
>=o= The Taco Bell bottles were a Greg LeMond promotional item.
>Taco Bell had to recall them because the lip could come off,
>causing people to choke.  I've seen these appearing recently
>in bike shops with tape over the "Taco Bell".  I can't imagine
>that they're legit.
>    <_Jym_>


This is all very strange to me.  The Taco Bell bottles I have *all* say
Specialized all over them, all have the latest "safe" top on them, and
are the best bottles I've ever bought for the price!!!  I guess there
are different versions, and the (earlier?) ones with problems gave
the design a bad name.  Which may explain how I've managed to get quite
a few, never paying HALF of the price mentioned above.

Actually, all my Specialized 'large tip' bottles are of very high quality,
IMO, and the Taco Bell ones (with the neon LeMond and runner) are my
favorites.  "Specialized" is molded into the top and bottom, you
couldn't miss it if your bottle is the same.  Next time I see 'em advertised
I've been thinking of getting quite a few.
And, yes, I've peeled the tape off of the "Taco Bell" and the copyright
notice (1990!)

	obrien@netcom.com	(Oh!   It's ... YOU, Bob!)
From: ra_novy@DAL.MOBIL.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: World Championship Road -- Contest
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:07:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: mobil.9209012107.AA19373

David Holliday writes:
>If I were a betting man, I'd have to go with Indurain.
>Why?
>     (3) He's a stud.

So, he'll be put out to pasture upon retirement?  Hey, great racers are bred,
after all.

Bob Novy
ra_novy@dal.mobil.com
Dallas, TX

No profundity here, either.
From: billyg@lahonda.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Gogesch)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: 700c knobbies
Date: 2 Sep 1992 23:46:31 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: billyg@lahonda.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: lahonda


Hi folks,

I have a tire question.  I ride my trusty touring Cannondale to work
over some pretty rugged terrain (Windy Hills off Skyline, for those of
you in the Bay Area...).  Most would consider this pretty rugged
mountain bike terrain, but I find that the IRC V-Claw on my front wheel
does an admirable job of hanging on to the hardpack and gravel.

My problem is that the chainstays on the Cannondale don't accommodate
the 38c V-Claw (too narrow).  I'm using a Michelin Touring tire on the
rear.  While this setup works fairly well, I do find situations (mostly
uphill) where I would like a bit more bite on that rear tire...

Can anyone recommend a good 700c X 35c tire designed for off-road use?

Thanks.

--B
From: allard@isi.edu (Dennis Allard)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Road Rides in Nevada City?
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:08:02 GMT
Reply-To: allard@isi.edu (Dennis Allard)
Distribution: world
Organization: USC Information Sciences Institute

allana@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Allan Armstrong) writes:
> ... Nevada City, CA area... I'd like to do some road riding
> ... rides of up to 60 miles in length.

Try highway 49 up to Downieville and back.  First several miles
has some traffic, then your in paradise.  Babbling creek along
gradual climb out, gradual descent back.  All the way to the
pass is 140 miles round trip, but just to Downieville must be
on the order of 80 round trip.  It's worth the extra 20 miles.
Downieville used to have two major events per year -- the bringing
in of the cattle, and the Coors classic bike race.  Now they just
have the cattle.  I learned this from a stop in a quaint bakery
where some locals hang out.  You'll probably meet the same locals.
The town itself looks like something out of Fantasyland.

Dennis
allard@isi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.tech
From: djconnel@leland.Stanford.EDU (Daniel Connelly)
Subject: Re: follow up on Specialzied Allez Epic and RB-1
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 13:30:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.231208.15110@husc3.harvard.edu> kim39@scws8.harvard.edu (John Kim) writes:
>15176@mcnc.org> ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek) writes:
>>Although not exactly intuitive, tire support has been discussed here
>>before.  Tires support a weight when the area of the contact patch
>>times the tire pressure equals the weight.  Running at rated pressures
>>(higher for the smaller tire) the smaller tire will have less
>>deformation. Since rolling resistance on a hard surface is the hysteresis 
>of the deformed tire, then the smaller tire will have lower RR, since it
>>deforms less.  Invite these salesguys to explain how a tire holds you
>>up.
>>Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
>
>	Well, then tell me this.  If I run a 19mm tire at 120 psi
>and a 28mm tire at 120psi, which will have less rolling resistance?
>I'm not saying you're wrong, but just wondering if you assumed
>the wider tire must be run at a lower pressure?  (And yes, I do run
>my 28mm tires at 120psi except when I get too lazy to top them
>off.)
>	I suppose  that if we follow the recommended maximum pressures,
>then you would be correct.
>-Case


What limits the pressure of tires?  If it is the force on the bead
then this force is proportional to the pressure times the tire
circumference.  The tire circumference is roughly proportional to the
tire width.  Therefore the maximum safe pressure should be roughly
inversely proportional to the width of the tire.

What about "rolling resistance"?  Assuming a fixed fraction of the
work done in compressing a section of tire goes into the generation of
heat then the incremental power dissipated is proportional to the unit
area times the pressure times the unit displacement.  Integrating over
the cross-section of the tire and over a complete rotation and
multiplying by the rotation rate yields the power dissipation per unit
time due to the complete tire.  The narrower the tire at a given
pressure, the greater the deflection required to yield the contact
cross-section needed to support the bike.  Therefore at a given
pressure the rolling resistance (and the susceptibility to
snake-bites) will be higher for narrower tires.

Assuming simple toroidal tire geometry with an elliptic contact patch
and small tire deformation one should be able therefore to derive
a simple analytic form for how rolling resistance varies with tire
circumference, assuming the force on the bead is fixed. 

Dan


--
From: truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell)
Subject: Re: Chain suck - my cure
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:05:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles

In article <he-lqAfGBh104h@contempt.brisnet.org.au>,
rob@contempt.brisnet.org.au (Rob Amos) wrote:
>
> ...I wanted to contribute my solution to the
> continuing chain suck debate...
>
> I ... found that the longer axle
> of the new bracket increased the clearance between the
> chain-rings and the chain-stay a bit (the gap was a bit small beforehand).

Another thing that helps eliminate chain suck is well-manicured chain ring
teeth. The incideous thing about chainsuck is that it contributes to
burring over the teeth so it's easier to suck it up next time. And so on.

Feel the teeth of your middle and small chain rings. Can you feel anywhere
where the chain might catch and not release cleanly. I'd wager that every
tooth has at least a small burr. The chain ring wasn't made that way. It
got that way from hammering the pedals and shifting under durress.

I find that I go through middle and small chainrings at least once a year.
Between replacements I get good performance by occationally dressing the
teeth a little with a file. You really have to pull the crank to do this
right, but after that's done it's a pretty simple job.

  --scott
From: brucer@gold.gvg.tek.com (Bruce Rayner)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Road Rides in Nevada City?
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:33:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: gold.5131
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

>allana@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Allan Armstrong) writes:
>> ... Nevada City, CA area... I'd like to do some road riding
>> ... rides of up to 60 miles in length.
>
My favorite ride up here (Nevada City) is up Hiway 20 east of town.  Yes,
there is traffic, but done early in the morning it's not bad.  I've 
survived many a trip.  There is significant climbing but nothing over 5-6%.
At 18mi out (3000'v.) you have a great lookout over the whole Yuba canyon 
and all the way to the Sierra Buttes above Downieville.  Or you can
continue to Lake Spaulding, 26 mi out, for a refreshing swim before
turning around.  

Better yet, continue on up 20 to 80 (3mi on Fwy shoulder - no problem)
and old 40 (no traffic) to Truckee, 54mi one way.  You'll find great
little cafe at Cisco Grove and several swimming holes on the Yuba as
you climb toward the pass at about 7200' (Nevada City is 2500').
Just as you top the pass, a spectacular view of Donner Lake greets you,
1200' below. Steep grade and sharp switchbacks make for an exhillarating
descent.  There are public, free, piers along the road on Donner ffor
another swim.

There's more to this trip, if you want.  Continue up Hwy 89 north to
Sierraville. (Sleepy little high country town). Up over the pass and in
the back way to Downieville.  From the top of the pass you can go almost
40 miles downhill, through Downieville until you cross the N. Fork of 
the Yuba and start some serious up and down back to Nevada City.  I 
stopped overnite in D'ville (110 mi from N.C., approx 11,000 vert.).
Had a great dinner at the "Forks", and did 55mi to N.C. the next day.

Tremendous scenery, fun downhills and manageable uphills.

There are many other lesser rides around our area as well.

Bruce
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles

The only valid reason for trispoke wheels *FOR MTBS* that I can see is
that they don't need truing.  I think weight is much more important
than aerodynamics for typical mtb speeds of 5-20mph.  Personally I'd
rather true my spoked mtb wheels every now and then instead of using
a heavier trispoke wheel.

What I'm curious about is the Tioga tensioned disk wheel.  Ned Overend
is now using one.  I've been told that they absorb a noticeable amount
of shock, can anyone confirm that?

Keith Erskine
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: K.H.GOODRICH@larc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Hubs built for straight spokes
Organization: NASA-Langley Research Center
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:17:16 GMT

In article <truesdel-020992151348@cider.ics.uci.edu> truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R.
Scott Truesdell) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.204855.7738@src.dec.com>, jcollias@src.dec.com (Jim
>Collias) wrote:
>
>>       All of my wheels have properly tensioned double-butted spokes
>> w/low-flange hubs. My mountain rims are quite narrow, so the length of
>> the spokes, tire size, and riding conditions are the only variables here.
>> I would bet that my wheels see more stresses off of the road, so what gives?
>
>Tires?
>
>The fatter, lower pressure mtn bike tires soften the blows. Would that be
>enough to account for the more durable spokes on mtn bikes?
>
>  --scott
>
From reading the net I've gotten the impression that spokes fail mainly from
fatigue.  The number of loading cycles (i.e. # of wheel rotations or miles
ridden) would be the key factor in spoke breakage.  Mtn bikes typically are
ridden fewer miles than road bikes and thus should have fewer problems.

KG
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: starkid@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Lance Sanders)
Subject: Re: Bicycle cops on the beat
Organization: EnviraForm
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:26:34 GMT
X-Disclaimer:  Material posted in this article is the sole responsibility of
                the poster and does not represent MCSNet or the system owners.


On Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:55:56 GMT, dpearson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David 
Pearson), in Message-ID: <Bt50DM.IoA@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes:

>We have bicycle police patrols here around the campus of the University of 
>Illinois.  I've only seen them ride on the sidewalks a couple of times 
>because of our extensive bike paths. 

   The Mayor's office kicked off Chicago Police Lakefront bike patrols this 
summer. They use unclaimed, recovered bikes, so there's a wide range out 
there. I've seen some pathetic frame/rider match-ups, and approx. 70-75% 
don't seem in shape.
   A Chicago Tribune article mentioned that next year, Schwinn is going to 
be supplying all bikes for the patrol (ATB's). 

---------
Lance "Pardon me, but do you have any Power Bars" Sanders
starkid@ddsw1.MCS.COM / GE Mail: L.Sanders6 / Vox: (312) 667-5958
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: do dishless wheels ride differently?
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:10:11 GMT

Eric House writes:

> Am I imagining things, or is it possible that having nearly identical
> tension in the spokes on both sides of a wheel would make it behave differ-
> ently from a wheel with substantially higher-tensioned spokes on one side --
> to a degree I could detect?

To what would you attribute the change in feel?  If you pursue the effects
that might come to mind, they can easily be shown to be immeasurably small.
Radial compliance of the wheel, excluding the tire, is in the order of one
to five thousandths of an inch on severe bumps.  This is 100 times smaller
than tire compliance.  If you load the wheel, its left and right spokes are
unloaded under the compressive load about equally even though the average
tension is in a ratio of 2:1 right:left.  This produces an imperceptibly
small lateral displacement to the right, again on the order of a few
thousandths of an inch.  This occurs because the left spokes have a greater
proportional change in tension than the right ones.

The conclusion I come to is that you are imagining the difference.  This is
not a rare occurrence with wheels.  Riders often claim to feel the difference
between 36 and 32 spoke wheels that are otherwise identical.  For these
there is no doubt that it is brought on by expectations.

What is more interesting is how you achieved the greater axle length.  If
this is a typical hub and freewheel combination, the axle overhang from the
right side hub bearing is now substantially greater.  Every mm counts
heavily and they aren't good at the outset.  Also the chain line has not
gotten any better but then you may not want to use the small CW with the
smaller rear sprockets.

It's all a compromise.  You must find what works best for your bike.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: bar-end shifters
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:08:50 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug26.150611.19220@msc.cornell.edu> tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402) writes:
>Just out of curiosity, why should non-racers want their levers to move in a
>large arc, and is it so difficult to maintain at least this much compatibility
>across lines?

There are horses for courses Dave. The larger arc of the Ultegra 
translates into an easier shifter action.

But, probably, the real reason is that there are different engineering
groups designing the different lines and they make different decisions
using the same data. It happens all of the time in the rest of the world.
Why should the japanese be any different?
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Women's Tour de France updates anyone?
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:26:32 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <56cn7fb.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>>From ~1982-1987 Jeannie Longo dominated women's bicycle racing to such an 
>>extent that it made women's  bicycle racing boring.  Longo 1st, Canins 2nd,
>
>Did Merkx winning everything in sight make men's professional racing
>boring? Did Poulidor's second placings in so many races hurt the sport?

I have to agree with Keith Erskine on this point and say that one
of the reasons I find men's racing so exciting and women's racing
not that exciting is that the men are so much more aggressive
than the women.

Merckx's was a super aggressive rider as was Bernard Hinault.
Bernie's great quote was,"as long as I have two legs I will
attack!".  These guys were noted for making big moves and
laying it on the line(look at Bernie in the 2nd Pyrennean
stage of the 1986 TdF(TIOOYK) when he essentially gave the
tour victory to Greg by attacking when he had a 5 minutes lead.)

Let's face it.  Women's racing is not as agressive as the men's
racing.  There could be any number of reasons, but you just do
not see the attacks and the chances taken in women's racing
as in men's racing.

I don't think the speed is that important an issue.  I enjoyed
the Men's version of the Coors Classic just as much as when it
was an amateur event as when it was pro-am.  For me, it is the
"go for it", the aggressive, attack at all costs kind of attitude
that makes a race interesting.  You just do not see that in
Women's racing.  Sorry.

Bruce(and his opinions)
From: wendy@cvedc.prime.com (Wendy Allen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Who's Going On Cycle Oregon
Date: 28 Aug 92 23:33:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: cvedc.1992Aug28.233359.17311
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computervision Beaverton Oregon

Speaking of Cycle Oregon.....now only 3 weeks away. Two of us from
Computervison are making the trip.  Sara had an up close look at
the windshield of a car and will not be on the biking portion of
the trip. She will be waiting at camp with the lounge chairs and a
cooler full of Full Sail Ale.

I will be on my light blue Trek,  flying at the speed of light
over McKenzie Pass.  Ha! I finally got a bike computer and I can
no longer hold this delusion.

See you there.

Wendy
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Subject: Re: Another vote...
Followup-To: news.groups
Summary: wrong news group
Keywords: news.groups
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:09:14 GMT

Please take this discussion to news.groups and keep it there.

Thanks.



-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System)
Subject: Re: MTB Opinions Sought: Mt Shasta bikes
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Organization: SMIS, Massey University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 05:16:44 GMT

I wrote:

> One bike (and brand in general) I would particularly like to see opinions
> on is the Mt Shasta Tempest.  According to the dealer, they are made by GT,
> as a line to sell to non-franchised dealers.  The Tempest has XT
> componentry....  
>
>The burning question in my mind is: are the frames OK?
> 
> I'm test riding one later this week...

To report back: I'm dubious about the source and quality of the frame
materials on these bikes.  On a bike of this calibre I would expect decals
which  identified the type and manuacturer of the tubing.  The bike did
seem reasonably light and had good, conservative geometry.  However I would
rather be sure of the quality of the frame materials than save a few bucks.

--------------------------------------------------------
Phil Etheridge               P.Etheridge@massey.ac.nz
Macintosh Consultant         Phone: +64+6-356-9099 x8689
SMIS, Massey University      Fax:   +64+6-350-5611
Palmerston North, NZ         40*23'S 175*37'E,    GMT+12
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles