From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:48:41 GMT

In article <YAMAUCHI.92Jul23201129@heron.cs.rochester.edu> yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu (Brian Yamauchi) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.072717.17394@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak) writes:
>>I really feel that a lot of times, the question "Where are you from?" directed
>>to an AA person is just a lazy way of asking "What's your ethnicity?"
>
>And a lot of times, it means "Where are you from?"

OK, so a lot of times it means "Where are you from," and a lot of times (at
least in my experience) it means "What's your ethnicity?"  So if I just
answer "I'm from Texas," that only covers "a lot of times."  If I answer,
"I'm from Texas but I'm ethnically Korean," that covers "a lot of times"
times 2.  So I'm ahead of the game this way.  :-)

>>OK, so those people who ask aren't the most semantically correct people in
>>the world?  So what?  If they ask *POLITELY*, why not tell them our
>>ethnicity?
>
>Because it reinforces the misconception that those of Asian descent
>must be "foreigners" from "somewhere else".

OK, I see your point.  I don't mean to reinforce anybody's possible mis-
conception by saying what I say.

>Besides, I'd rather give the benefit of the doubt to the smart and curious
>than to the stupid and lazy...

Why not simply give the benefit of the doubt to EVERYONE, smart, stupid,
lazy, or curious?

>>Should we give that complete stranger a lecture instead on their "racist"
>>ways?
>
>Not at all -- we should answer the question they asked, not the
>question we think they might have asked.

Hmm.  I really say this depends on context.  I think from now on, unless I'm
pretty sure they just mean "Where are you from," I'm going to do like the cab
driver in Dave's post and say "Do you mean originally?"  This way I don't
have to be interpreted as being coy or overly sensitive, plus I'll find out
right away what they really mean.

BTW, I realize the question "Where are you from originally?" is also unclear
if asked to a 2+ generation Asian American.  But I'm not, so it works for
me.  :-)

>["I'd rather not discuss my ethnicity" reply deleted]
>
>This is an amazingly perverse way to answer a question. :-)

OK, you're right.  That was pretty bad.  :-)

>It forces people who were being clear to restate the obvious.

OK, good point.

>It doesn't bother me at all to discuss my ethnicity.  It bothers me
>when people make prejudiced assumptions about my nationality...

Ditto.

>However, the question "Where are you from?" doesn't offend me at all
>-- because I've found that it almost always means "Where are you
>from?"

In my experience, I haven't found that this is always true.  I think that's
why I tend to answer the way I do.

>I answer, "Ohio".  I've had far more people respond with "I'm from
>Ohio too," than "No, where are you really from?"

Well, great for you.  But in my experience, I have often heard the reply,
"Oh, that's nice, but I meant where are you from originally?", or variations
thereof.  So that's why I answer the way I do.

>>And why assume (unless they ask it like an asshole,
>>in which case they deserve to get nailed by you) that non-Asians think you're
>>not Real Americans[tm], rather than the simpler assumption that they know
>>you're American too and meant to ask about your ethnicity but were simply too
>>careless to phrase the question precisely?
>
>Why not make the even simpler assumption that they want to know where
>you're from?

Because in my experience, that's not always been the case.  And because I'd
like to avoid situations like the "Dear Abby" scenario if I can help it.

>If they want to know your ethnicity, they can always ask.

That's true.  I guess I'm such a nice guy I save them the second question.
:-) :-)

>>And in fact, this exact situation happened to me just last winter.  I was
>>in a taxicab, the driver was White/Hispanic-looking and spoke with a thick
>>accent, and he asked me where I was from.  I simply answered that I'm from
>>Texas, but that I was born in South Korea.
>
>Since you were born in South Korea, you can reasonably say you are
>from South Korea.  (In the same way that I can say I'm from New
>Jersey, even though my family moved when I was three...)  But later
>generation immigrants don't have these ties.

Precisely!!  That's why I said the way you answer this question may have
some correlation to how many generations you've been in this country.

>>And although I didn't have the nerve to ask
>>her, somebody else did, and she answered in the most graceful way that she
>>was "Chinese-American," and that her mother was originally from Taiwan.  OK,
>>she didn't get asked where she was from; she got asked point-blank about her
>>ethnicity.
>
>Which is the sensible way to ask...

But then again, not everybody asks in the most precise manner every time.

>>But if you don't, like Huy said, why not be polite instead of coy?
>
>Why not answer the question they asked?  (In an open, non-hostile manner.)
>
>This has three benefits:
>
>1) If the person is asking the question they want to ask, you haven't
>insulted them by underestimating their intelligence.

If I answer "I'm from Texas but ethnically Korean," whose intelligence have
I insulted?

>2) If the person is reasonable but being unclear, then they _won't_ be
>irritated and will instead continue the conversation -- asking about
>ethnicity if they're really interested.

But if I answer the way I did above, (1) I've taken care of their unclearness,
(2) There's no chance that they might interpret my reply as being coy or
overly sensitive to the question, (3) If they're interested in my ethnicity
anyway, I've saved them from having to ask another (possibly awkward in their
minds) question.  If they're not interested, they'll simply hop on the "Texas"
part and ignore the "Korea" part.

>3) If the person asking is stupid and/or racist, it will become
>immediately obvious -- because they _will_ be irritated, and you can
>avoid wasting your time talking to them.

This is a very good point.  But then again, I'd rather not irritate them at
all in the first place.

>The vast majority of people I've encountered fall into categories (1)
>and (2).

So have I.  But I'd like to avoid (3)'s where at all possible too.  I'd also
like to avoid the "Dear Abby" scenario.

Keep in mind that there will be people who, while they may not get "irritated,"
might get a little sensitive themselves if they interpret your own answer as
being sensitive.  Who needs all this sensitivity?  Not me.  :-)

>>You're not ashamed of your ethnicity, are you?  :-)
>
>Not at all -- just proud of my nationality.  You aren't ashamed of
>yours, are you? :-)

My ethnicity?  Absolutely not, that's why I state it from the very beginning.
My nationality, you mean?  Ashamed of being American?  Naw... unless I'm
overseas.  :-) :-)

Anyway, Brian, I don't want to reinforce the wrong impression of AAs being
perceived as "foreigners," so the next time I get asked, I may just follow
your advice and answer the question literally.  In a nice manner, of course.

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american